From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Antonomasia Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 19:33:28 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com Subject: HIP97 photos & hate speech in list opinions Message-ID: <199801010104.BAA04808@notatla.demon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Cpunks (and Bcc list), I've had a kind offer from Judith to scan my HIP photos and display them on the web (www.sabotage.org). This should happen in a few days. The photos include Alex, Judith, DDT, Ulf, Ian Grigg, Lucky, Sameer, Joichi and others. Re: Hate speech and censorship, 22 Dec, Anonymous > On behalf of the non-racist cypherpunks, please accept an apology for > Paul Bradley's racist message: > > uneducated and foolish arabs such as Parekh should stick > > to what they do best: running kebab shops and/or selling cheap fake rolex > > watches to tourists. > This does not reflect the mainstream view on the list. .... I found Sameer perfectly pleasant. IMO the best view to take on mainstream views is that you can't usually tell. Silence could indicate killfiles rather than assent. -- ############################################################## # Antonomasia ant@notatla.demon.co.uk # # See http://www.notatla.demon.co.uk/ # ############################################################## From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: David Miller Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 13:26:17 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Re: Location Escrow anyone ? In-Reply-To: <199801010433.XAA16928@users.invweb.net> Message-ID: <34AB3639.296E74E9@avana.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain William H. Geiger III wrote: > >>ZURICH (December 28, 1997 4:12 p.m. EST http://www.nando.net) - Swiss >>police have secretly tracked the whereabouts of mobile phone users via a >>telephone company computer that records billions of movements going back >>more than half a year, a Sunday newspaper reported. > > Don't be fooled that this is a swiss only problem. It's being done here > in Amerika right now. You betcha. A couple of years ago, there was a _tremendous_ need for programmers to produce "cellular accounting/billing" software in Atlanta in preparation for the Olympics. However, apparently the Olympic Park bomber was not carrying a cellular at the time, so alas, another crime has gone unsolved... Gee, I wonder which carrier Ted Kaczynski will be doing wireless endorsements for? --David Miller middle rival devil rim lad Windows '95 -- a dirty, two-bit operating system. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Robert A. Costner" Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 15:17:10 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: IRC Internet chat with Electronic Frontiers Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980101021332.0369ef2c@rboc.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I sent this message to the cypherpunks list (cyberpass) about 12 hours ago, but have not seen it come up, so I'm sending it again. My apologies if you get two copies. (this copy does have more listed at the bottom in the schedule.) There will be a series of IRC internet chats with Electronic Frontiers. We wish to address two main problems. The Electronic Frontiers movement is misunderstood by a lot of people, and there is not enough communication between the independent EF organizations. The idea was sparked by the recent Cypherpunks Christmas Eve chat. Thanks for the idea. The members of the cypherpunks mail list are invited to our upcoming internet chats. Dates and info are below. The Electronic Frontiers movement is several independent organizations that share a common thread to their name. Each group speaks for themselves and are not associated with each other. The various EF organizations have no association with the group called EFF. We are grassroots organizations of concerned citizens of our geographic areas, volunteering our time and energy. EF organizations exist in several US states and in different countries around the world. EF organizations have been responsible for activities such as winning court cases like the Georgia Internet Anonymity and web linking lawsuit, and the anti-spoofing spam lawsuit in Texas (flowers.com). Of particular interest to Cypherpunks is the fact that EFGA hosts a variety of cypherpunk technologies, including a Cypherpunk Type-1 remailer, nymserver, and mixmaster remailer. We also have a PGP keyserver. Recently we created an FTP archive of privacy software. So far this has been front ends for remailers and PGP software that various software authors have sent us to host. All you need is an IRC client, and to log onto EFnet. If you have questions on how to do this, ask the list. I'm a newbie with IRC and can't help that much. The first chat is Thursday, tomorrow, New Years day at 7:00 pm New York time. ------------- There will be an IRC internet chat session for Electronic Frontiers. More info can be found at http://www.efga.org/about/meeting.html Get out your IRC client and visit us on EFnet IRC in the #ElectronicFrontiers channel. There will be a chat session on * Thursday, January 1, 1998 at 7:00pm EST hosted by Robert Costner of Electronic Frontiers Georgia. * Saturday, January 3, 1998 at 3:00pm EST hosted by Scott Brower of Electronic Frontiers Florida. * Wednesday, January 7, 1998 at 5:00 EST (2:00pm Pacific) hosted by Jon Lebkowsky of EF-Texas * To be announced hosted by Electronic Frontiers Australia (EFA) These will be our first chat sessions. After we see how this goes, we will try to setup something on a regular basis. -- Robert Costner Phone: (770) 512-8746 Electronic Frontiers Georgia mailto:pooh@efga.org http://www.efga.org/ run PGP 5.0 for my public key From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 22:38:09 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Long-distance limits on Bells unconstitutional [CNN] Message-ID: <199801011456.IAA11379@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Federal judge says long-distance > restrictions on Bells unconstitutional > > December 31, 1997: 7:02 p.m. ET > > SBC Communications > More related sites... WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A federal judge Wednesday > threw out as unconstitutional provisions of a landmark federal law > that restrict the regional Baby Bells from entering the $80 billion > long-distance telephone market, SBC Communications Inc. said. > [INLINE] San Antonio-based SBC said U.S. District Judge Joe Kendall > sided with the carrier, which had charged that the Telecommunications > Act of 1996 was unconstitutional because it discriminated against SBC > and the other four Baby Bells. > [INLINE] The New Year's Eve ruling is expected to send shock waves > through the telecom industry and throw into further disarray the > Federal Communications Commission's efforts to break open the $100 > billion local phone market controlled by the Bells. [text deleted] ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Mix Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 03:32:22 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199801011858.KAA07272@sirius.infonex.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Okay, I'd like to set up a remailer - but I don't know where to start! Unfortunatly it's going to have to run on an NT 4.0 box, so the winsock remailer is out of the question, right? And I'm not in the US, so I can't use the juno stuff -- so what (if anything) *can* I use? Thanks for any help... From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 03:23:23 +0800 To: Julian Assange Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 2:52 AM -0800 1/1/98, Julian Assange wrote: >Anyone noticed this before? > >------- Start of forwarded message ------- >Date: 1 Jan 1998 09:54:51 -0000 >Message-ID: <19980101095451.25998.qmail@suburbia.net> >From: proff@suburbia.net >To: proff@suburbia.net >Subject:home.html > > > > Scoop the Grim Reaper! > > Who will live? > > Who will die? Yeah, a few people pointed this out when Bell's "Assassination Politics" stuff began hitting the CP list, circa fall of 1995. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 03:38:42 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Re: Guns: H&K, G3, 7.62 v 5.56 [Guns] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain An interesting message (well, interesting to me and perhaps to some others). At 10:47 AM -0800 1/1/98, Ryan Lackey wrote: >Thus, in defending against a raid, Soviet-style weapons are probably better. >7.62x54R Dra----v rifles are probably a good model -- iirc (I've never >fired one), they're semi auto bullpups. [eeek, www.guns.ru is selling them >with bayonets! tactical close range sniping, aye!]. Or the SEAL sniper I've read some reviews of the Dragunov which are very unflattering. The scope on standard USSR-used rifles was terrible. I could doublecheck what Plaster says about them, but I haven't seen anyone advocating that Americans use them. Maybe they'll become the wave of the future... >weapon -- an accurized M14, which is basically an M1A. With a good scope >and better trigger, an M14/M1A can be 1 MOA, and it's a real battle rifle, >with the ability to engage multiple targets quickly due to the semi-auto >action. Actually, I figure that if I'm ever in a situation where I have to engage multiple targets quickly, I'm probably a goner. If nothing else, they'll roll an armored vehicle in (and more and more SWAT teams have them) and burn me out, Waco-style. ("We had to burn the children in order to save the children. Save them from what? Well, we had reports of something....") >Also, when you're operating without a spotter/security man, it's nice to >have the ability to quickly kill anyone in close. With an M1A, you just move >from your concealment, kill, and return, wasting a minimum of time. I guess >in a home you could just keep an AR-15 next to you for such close-in dealings, >though. Yeah, I think an AR-15 (or variant, of course) makes more sense for the average person than anything else (incl. shotgun) for home defense. Opinions vary on this, but this is my conclusion. >you are going to have to move around the house, at least. A PSG-1 ends >up being cheaper than 10 match-grade Remington 700s -- besides, the scope >is much more expensive than the gun anyway (perhaps I just like overly >expensive scopes) Well, I could justify buying _one_ Remington 700, for $600, plus another $400 or so for the Leupold scope (not bought yet). But I sure as hell couldn't justify buying a $10K PSG-1!!! >*ObCrypto!*: >The choice of cryptographic tools is somewhat like the choice of sniper >weaponry. ... Nice parallels, though I tend to argue for crypto in terms of speech and First Amendment grounds, and avoid the (obvious, but dangerous) comparisons of crypto to firearms. Dangerous because one immediately runs into the "But we regulate machine guns, so if crypto is like a machine gun, why shouldn't it be regulated?" And "We don't let citizens have nuclear weapons, so why let them have military-grade unbreakable ciphers?" The speech issues and prior restraint issues are much cleaner. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Robert Hettinga Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 02:32:33 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Peter Huber on the Orwellian Falacy Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain --- begin forwarded text X-Sender: oldbear@pop.tiac.net Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 15:09:58 -0500 To: Digital Commerce Society of Boston From: The Old Bear Subject: Peter Huber on the Orwellian Falacy Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: bounce-dcsb@ai.mit.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: The Old Bear HIGH-TECH'S LIBERATING EFFECT As the Internet makes inroads into information-restrictive nations, such as China, efforts to limit access to only "desirable" ideas are doomed to failure, say experts. "The complaint one hears against the Internet isn't that there is too little speech," says Manhattan Institute analyst Peter Huber. "Instead, the argument is that there is too much hateful or pornographic speech. Stalin manipulated the past, altering photos and just wiping people and events out of the historical record. But today, documents and photos get downloaded and stored in files all over the world. You can make corrupt copies, false copies, but you can't erase real copies now." Huber, author of the book "Orwell's Revenge," applauds the move by industry to make encryption products widely available: "It means that we can now create a zone of privacy that the government can't penetrate. That's the exact opposite of what Orwell through would happen." source: Investor's Business Daily December 30, 1997 as summarized by Edupage For help on using this list (especially unsubscribing), send a message to "dcsb-request@ai.mit.edu" with one line of text: "help". --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/ Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: ? the Platypus {aka David Formosa} Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 11:08:00 +0800 To: The Sheriff Subject: Re: [Anon newsgroup posting "censorship"] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On Wed, 31 Dec 1997, The Sheriff wrote: > Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 13:19:58 -0400 > From: The Sheriff > To: cypherpunks@toad.com > Subject: Re: [Anon newsgroup posting "censorship"] > > [snip] > > >My cancelled Usenet article offered a reward for killing the spammer: [...] > It's not censorship, you idiot. The dude who clipped out your post > was trying to keep some fucking psycho from killing somebody else for > some imagined (or not, who knows?) $50k reward. > > It's common sense, in other words. Not realy, Post it to one unnmoderated newsgroup Canceling it would be rouge Post it to one moderated newsgroup Moderator may cancel it Post it to more then 20 newsgroups Anyone can cancel it as spam The post was canceled because the moderator can canel anything in there newsgroup. It is censorship, but by posting to a moderated newsgroup you are concenting to that censorship. - -- Please excuse my spelling as I suffer from agraphia see the url in my header. Never trust a country with more peaple then sheep. ex-net.scum and proud You Say To People "Throw Off Your Chains" And They Make New Chains For Themselves? --Terry Pratchett. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBNKry9qQK0ynCmdStAQGQyQQAniVlZhPkrx/sk5HvduXR0c1iUs9ZyVZZ ncXkjREeMJFAjnL4FEtACji0KdtQqFZ1meGYJ33EVDK2SUmYKNVa0RZebK53C6Gw YJot1jnkSMU5MHDqRX25kqqSBSmyX/IML0KZbh6D9NTV+iOF4qos5B016RdsG43f 1FW67ogq0qI= =nXjj -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 03:05:30 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: Guns: H&K, G3, 7.62 v 5.56 [Guns] (fwd) Message-ID: <199801011919.NAA11887@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Subject: Re: Guns: H&K, G3, 7.62 v 5.56 [Guns] > From: Ryan Lackey > Date: 01 Jan 1998 13:47:02 -0500 > 2) In my (somewhat limited) experience, many field-improvised concealment > locations are great during firing, but when you move to cycle the action > on a bolt action rifle, you make the concealment shake or otherwise reveal > yourself. Against a force with sniper/antisniper weaponry, that will likely > All that being said, for field use and home defense, if I'm alone, I'd > take a barrett .50 browning for long-range USMC-style scout-sniping, or You obviously haven't seen the flash or the dust cloud from one of these beasties fired from ground level. Hiding at anything less than a mile is not something you're going to do very well. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Ryan Lackey Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 02:58:42 +0800 To: Tim May Subject: Re: Guns: H&K, G3, 7.62 v 5.56 [Guns] Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Tim May continues the sniping discussion: >I haven't seen Jim's reaction to my point about bolt-action rifles still >being far and away the favored weapon for sniping. Neither an AR-15 variant >nor an HK variant are advised for long-range shots (though either will of >course be capable of such shots...it's just that one wants the absolute >best precsion, and cycling rate is largely immaterial). In a rich target environment where you're firing from concealment, I think it is better to have a semiauto 7.62mmN rifle such as an accurized HK91 or a national match M1A, assuming the enemy has snipers or long-range antisniper weaponry. Why? 1) It is likely to be a target rich environment. USMC sniper doctrine is mainly single target single kill attacks from outside 600 yards. Former Soviet and US Army snipers mainly engaged multiple targets inside that range for tactical support. Defending against a raid is primarily tactical support sniping, killing the vice president of a country other than the US is primarily USMC style scout/sniping. Thus, in defending against a raid, Soviet-style weapons are probably better. 7.62x54R Dra----v rifles are probably a good model -- iirc (I've never fired one), they're semi auto bullpups. [eeek, www.guns.ru is selling them with bayonets! tactical close range sniping, aye!]. Or the SEAL sniper weapon -- an accurized M14, which is basically an M1A. With a good scope and better trigger, an M14/M1A can be 1 MOA, and it's a real battle rifle, with the ability to engage multiple targets quickly due to the semi-auto action. Also, when you're operating without a spotter/security man, it's nice to have the ability to quickly kill anyone in close. With an M1A, you just move from your concealment, kill, and return, wasting a minimum of time. I guess in a home you could just keep an AR-15 next to you for such close-in dealings, though. 2) In my (somewhat limited) experience, many field-improvised concealment locations are great during firing, but when you move to cycle the action on a bolt action rifle, you make the concealment shake or otherwise reveal yourself. Against a force with sniper/antisniper weaponry, that will likely bring down a hail of fire, which is suboptimal at best. USMC snipers generally solve this by firing once and leaving, since it's confusing and hard to localize on a single gunshot, but in a target rich environment, you might not be able to move. And they may have you surrounded, so it's hard to move without being seen. 3) A semi-auto is generally more useful for non-sniping tasks. I can barely carry an M1A, spare ammo, supplies, etc. for a couple days without being annoyed at the weight -- I sure wouldn't want to add a SMG or assault carbine to that. I would not have a problem with using a battle rifle/sniper rifle against a force armed with assault carbines and SMGs, though. True, this may be less of an issue inside a house, since you could just leave all your supplies cached throughout. I still thing you need to remain concealed and hopefully in cover, and if they bring heavy weapons to bear, you are going to have to move around the house, at least. A PSG-1 ends up being cheaper than 10 match-grade Remington 700s -- besides, the scope is much more expensive than the gun anyway (perhaps I just like overly expensive scopes) All that being said, for field use and home defense, if I'm alone, I'd take a barrett .50 browning for long-range USMC-style scout-sniping, or antimateriel sniping, and either a PSG-1 if money is no object (it's not *that* expensive, if you actually use it), or the German Army sniping system (or my^H^Ha national match M1A or M14) if money is only somewhat an object, or a Dragunov if money is a limiting factor, for anti-sniping or support sniping. And I strongly feel anti-raid sniping is of the latter category. (True, your gun is the best 7.62 USMC-style rifle other than the PSG-1..) Even better than that would be the addition of a spotter/security person with an M16 :) And some nice *cover* for where you fire from, in the form of earth, concrete, sandbags, or Spectra. And if the sky is the limit, something to engage light armor, like a 20mm rifle or tactical air support :) *ObCrypto!*: The choice of cryptographic tools is somewhat like the choice of sniper weaponry. A OTP is remarkably like a bolt-action rifle of infinite accuracy. Say, a USAF prototype 20mm laser guided sniper rifle. Use it twice in the same place, and get slagged in automatic cannon fire. However, it is ideal for "one shot one kill" perfect secrecy. A steganographically-protected data stream is much like a silenced subsonic carbine. A remailer network is much like a remote electrically-fired weapon (someone at a pistol match tried this with a free pistol, won, and the technique was banned the next year :) PGP is the PSS -- pretty [good] sniping system, pretty good precision. Useful for a lot of things, and since it's one of the better tools, it gets used for a lot of things where another solution might be better. :) Of course, I'd be kind of biased to call a working Eternity implementation and/or working and distributed digital cash system the PSG-1. -- Ryan Lackey rdl@mit.edu http://mit.edu/rdl/ From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 04:00:22 +0800 To: devnull@www.video-collage.com Subject: Re: Guns: H&K, G3, 7.62 v 5.56 [Guns] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801011948.NAA17459@manifold.algebra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Tim May wrote: > >Thus, in defending against a raid, Soviet-style weapons are probably better. > >7.62x54R Dra----v rifles are probably a good model -- iirc (I've never > >fired one), they're semi auto bullpups. [eeek, www.guns.ru is selling them > >with bayonets! tactical close range sniping, aye!]. Or the SEAL sniper > > I've read some reviews of the Dragunov which are very unflattering. The > scope on standard USSR-used rifles was terrible. I could doublecheck what > Plaster says about them, but I haven't seen anyone advocating that > Americans use them. Maybe they'll become the wave of the future... First of all, the standard Dragunov scopes use weird Russian batteries that are hard to find here. (the batteries are only used to light the crosshairs). Also, I have been told that Dragunovs are not as accurate as M1As (2MOA or so). What I do like about SVD is their mean looks. Maybe it is my Soviet taste. - Igor. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Robert A. Costner" Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 03:30:43 +0800 To: Jim Choate Subject: Re: IRC Internet chat with Electronic Frontiers (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199712312107.PAA09410@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980101141316.0362f05c@mail.atl.bellsouth.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 03:07 PM 12/31/97 -0600, Jim Choate wrote: >Forwarded message: > >> Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 15:06:46 -0500 >> From: "Robert A. Costner" >> Subject: IRC Internet chat with Electronic Frontiers > >> * To be announced >> hosted by Jon Lebkowsky of EF-Texas > >Woah Nelly, this is the first I have heard of EF-Tx, got any contact info? There have always been two groups in Texas, one in Austin, and one in Houston, I think. Austin is of course the famous home of the Steve Jackson raids. Rumor has it that the two groups are merging into one to be called something similar to EF-Texas. If you want more info, you'll have to get it from Jon Lebkowsky, Gene Crick, or one of the others in Texas. I'm sure Jon will address this during his chat. Hopefully we'll have the text of the chat session, or at least the first hour, on a web page after the chat. Jon's chat session will be on Wednesday, January 7, 1998 at 7:00 EST (5:00pm Pacific) The session hosted by EF Australia should be Saturday, January 17, 1998 at 8:00pm EST (11:00am Sunday, Brisbane, AU), Hosted by Greg Taylor of Electronic Frontiers Australia. (maybe 7:00 EST - it is not set in stone) To be honest, I'm getting confused on the time zones. Today I noticed a mistake I made earlier when I added when I should have subtracted. Plus I haven't figured out Australia and GMT time yet, to do it without thinking. More info about times, and hopefully any corrections can be found at http://www.efga.org/about/meeting.html -- Robert Costner Phone: (770) 512-8746 Electronic Frontiers Georgia mailto:pooh@efga.org http://www.efga.org/ run PGP 5.0 for my public key From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "William H. Geiger III" Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 04:56:36 +0800 To: Steve Schear Subject: Re: Mobile phones used as trackers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801012054.PAA25297@users.invweb.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In , on 12/31/97 at 06:53 PM, Steve Schear said: >and keep your cell phone turned off. It is my understanding that they can still track you with the cell phone turned off so long as there is power going to the box (most auto cell phones are hardwired into the cars electrical system). - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a-sha1 Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBNKwA+o9Co1n+aLhhAQG15gP/eG3w/i4L2HjWlacroj7BWLWZYgjoOWdn yNxmvrOPQGSrrTBCO28dn3xOvJfz4z87G918h7pRZvxmhElNsHEbqCSK2CqsUCnZ ahfF/aiXMm59ToF1HMMRXgpCxORORC58GxOkIR5zUp7HKjpPc6KhEdARovBfYnJM LcxS2kcOJ+4= =aljX -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 04:39:59 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: W.F. Friedman - A reputation revisited?... Message-ID: <199801012057.OAA12379@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Hi, Thought I would pass an interesting quote along regarding Friedman. I think it may have some interest considering the holding of Friedman by some cpunks... Combined Fleet Decoded: The secret history of American intelligence and the Japanese navy in WWII John Prados ISBN 0-679-43701-0 pp. 164 "This is not to say the solution occurred in a vacuum, however. It was OP-20-G that had solved Red, predecessor to the new diplomatic system, and Commander Safford recognized that his organization needed outside help on Purple. He went to his Army counterpart, The Signal Intelligence Service (SIS), which formed part of the Signal Corps: there, senior cryptanalyst William F. Friedman, was an expert on machine based encipherment systems. Under Friedman, chief of the team attacking the B Machine would be Frank B. Rowlett. Other SIS cryptanalysts, an electronics engineer, accounting machine experts, and Japanese linguist formed the rest of the group. Friedman, too often given credit as the man who "broke" Purple, made only sporadic contributions amid other duties. His main role came in selecting members of Rowlett's team, with an assist on diagnosis and analysis of the sytsem. Robert O. Ferner was Rowlett's second, with cryptanalysts Genevieve Grotjan, Albert W. Small, and Samuel S. Snyder plus crytographic specialists Glenn S. Landig, Kenneth D. Miller, and Cyrus C. Sturgis Jr. The top Japanese linguist was John B. Hurt, a Virginian like Rowlett himself." ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Kent Crispin Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 07:21:29 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: Jim Bell... lives... on... in... Hollywood! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <19980101150542.36875@songbird.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Thu, Jan 01, 1998 at 09:52:20PM +1100, Julian Assange wrote: > > Anyone noticed this before? No. But there are two obvious differences between this and the Bell plan: 1) it's not anon; 2) you are explicitly barred from winning if you contribute in any way to the death. [...] > You will not receive credit for a death if you somehow contribute to > that person's demise. If there's any dispute over the exact date of a > celebrity's demise, information listed on the death certificate will > prevail. > > Dewey's Death Pool is open to residents of the 50 United States and > the District of Columbia who are 18 years or older. For complete > rules, see the Official Rules. So you have to provide proof of age to claim... [...] -- Kent Crispin "No reason to get excited", kent@songbird.com the thief he kindly spoke... PGP fingerprint: B1 8B 72 ED 55 21 5E 44 61 F4 58 0F 72 10 65 55 http://songbird.com/kent/pgp_key.html From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: rights@super.zippo.com Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 08:47:46 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: Defamation of the goverment Message-ID: <199801020044.QAA06595@super.zippo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > >In the U. S. a public figure must show actual malice and reckless disregard >for truth to recover damages for defamation. >But how does this apply to the >goverment itself, the president, and to a foreign goverment? >Seditious speech >against the U. S. goverment is protected under Brandenburg v. Ohio >But what if >for instance a Singaporian or German citizen uses a remailer in California to >insult the head of state, the goverment or the rulingparty at home? >Would >willfully promotion of falsehood about a foreign goverment or a foreign >goverment institution be protected speech? >Could the Singaporian or German >head of state or any goverment institution within these countries recover >damages for defamation committed in the U.S. through a local SP? >As far I >understand it, there is two matters of relevance. >1) Sedątious advocacy under >the Brandenburg standard. >2) Defamation precedence in which the Supreme Court >ruled that a public figure has to demonstrate actual malice and reckless >disregard for truth. >The Supreme Court has never ruled that _all_ speech is >protected unless it is directed to incite or produce imminent lawless or >likely to incite or produce such action. >Does this mean that defamation >against the goverment or a foreign goverment could be subject for civil action >as long the statute applied would meet the Sullivan standard? > From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Mikhael Frieden Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 06:10:42 +0800 To: Paul Bradley Subject: Re: Freedom Forum report on the State of the First Amendment Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980101165908.0c4f464c@pop.mindspring.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 08:18 PM 1/1/98 +0000, Paul Bradley wrote: >> It is about basic human decency, and giving a person a fighting chance. >No, acts of law which require employers not to discriminate against >niggers, wops, kikes or greezers, or any other ratial group infringe >basic rights of association, I personally have no racist prejudices, but >recognise the freedom of others to be as bigotted as they care to be. Does that include the krauts, micks, limeys, frogs as well as the canucks and pea soup eaters? The polacks, chinks and dagos? The Wogs too? Can't we all be ethnic slurs together? Which reminds me. We never did get a good one for the Russians. Any nominations? -=-=- Censorship is OK if it is of them. -- the F-C motto From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Mikhael Frieden Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 06:10:42 +0800 To: Paul Bradley Subject: Re: Freedom Forum report on the State of the First Amendment Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980101170044.0dff4600@pop.mindspring.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 08:13 PM 1/1/98 +0000, Paul Bradley wrote: > >> > Should the government be able to take action against me because I fire >> > someone for being jewish/black/homosexual??? >> >> Welcome to the 20th Century, moron. > >You clearly have no comprehension of the principles of the free market >and the rights of businesses and individual to hire and fire whoever the >fuck they like for any reason whatsoever. I am no racist, but I defend >your right to be as racist as you see fit. You are obviously an evil person if you do so against the self annointed, even though they self identify themselves as 30% racist. -=-=- Censorship is OK if it is of them. -- the F-C motto From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Antonomasia Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 03:48:05 +0800 To: usura@basement.replay.com Subject: Re: HIP97 photos Message-ID: <199801011921.TAA01743@notatla.demon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Alex de Joode : > Hmm, I think she only got 3 photos .. End of one film. The rest are in the post now. -- ############################################################## # Antonomasia ant@notatla.demon.co.uk # # See http://www.notatla.demon.co.uk/ # ############################################################## From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Paul Bradley Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 05:18:10 +0800 To: Colin Rafferty Subject: Re: Freedom Forum report on the State of the First Amendment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > > Should the government be able to take action against me because I fire > > someone for being jewish/black/homosexual??? > > Welcome to the 20th Century, moron. You clearly have no comprehension of the principles of the free market and the rights of businesses and individual to hire and fire whoever the fuck they like for any reason whatsoever. I am no racist, but I defend your right to be as racist as you see fit. Datacomms Technologies data security Paul Bradley, Paul@fatmans.demon.co.uk Paul@crypto.uk.eu.org, Paul@cryptography.uk.eu.org Http://www.cryptography.home.ml.org/ Email for PGP public key, ID: FC76DA85 "Don`t forget to mount a scratch monkey" From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Paul Bradley Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 05:16:49 +0800 To: Colin Rafferty Subject: Re: Freedom Forum report on the State of the First Amendment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > It is about basic human decency, and giving a person a fighting chance. No, acts of law which require employers not to discriminate against niggers, wops, kikes or greezers, or any other ratial group infringe basic rights of association, I personally have no racist prejudices, but recognise the freedom of others to be as bigotted as they care to be. Datacomms Technologies data security Paul Bradley, Paul@fatmans.demon.co.uk Paul@crypto.uk.eu.org, Paul@cryptography.uk.eu.org Http://www.cryptography.home.ml.org/ Email for PGP public key, ID: FC76DA85 "Don`t forget to mount a scratch monkey" From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Paul Bradley Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 05:16:58 +0800 To: Colin Rafferty Subject: Re: Freedom Forum report on the State of the First Amendment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > You are not being coerced into anything. If you don't want to serve > food to Blacks, don't open a restaurant. It's your choice. I really hate having to go over and over basic points, but will do in the hope of bringing even a tiny glimmer of enlightenment to you: If you don`t want to serve food to blacks, open and restaurant and refuse to serve blacks in it, put a sign on the door saying "whites only, no niggers please", if blacks try to force you to serve them in your restaurant protect your rights by killing them. Simple as that. > By the way, you are also not allowed to dump toxic waste in your own > backyard. Are you being oppressed? Dumping toxic waste in my back yard will kill my neighbours. How does refusing to hire blacks or any other group harm anyone but myself (in terms of trade levels)? > > Colin, do you consider > > yourself oppressed when someone choses not to date you? What about > > a rejection by someone who takes out a public advertisement in the paper? > > Nope. Of course, this has nothing to do with anything. On the contrary it is an entirely analagous situation, someone is choosing not to associate with you, do you go crying to the govt. claiming you didn`t get a fair shake because sarah in accounts wouldn`t fuck you at the office christmas party? > With freedom comes responsibility. Decency is one of them. With freedom comes responsibility not to infringe someone elses rights, I infringe no-one elses rights by refusing to hire them... Datacomms Technologies data security Paul Bradley, Paul@fatmans.demon.co.uk Paul@crypto.uk.eu.org, Paul@cryptography.uk.eu.org Http://www.cryptography.home.ml.org/ Email for PGP public key, ID: FC76DA85 "Don`t forget to mount a scratch monkey" From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Paul Bradley Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 05:22:05 +0800 To: Colin Rafferty Subject: Re: Freedom Forum report on the State of the First Amendment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > > Where do you get the right to tell others how they can make a living? > > I don't have that right. However, the Supreme Court has said that the > Congress has that right. Then that must be right... This is starting to look like a troll. Datacomms Technologies data security Paul Bradley, Paul@fatmans.demon.co.uk Paul@crypto.uk.eu.org, Paul@cryptography.uk.eu.org Http://www.cryptography.home.ml.org/ Email for PGP public key, ID: FC76DA85 "Don`t forget to mount a scratch monkey" From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: remailer@geocities.com Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 10:00:37 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Remailer Message-ID: <199801020146.RAA10880@geocities.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Check out , for a remailer that will run on any winsock compatible connection. I think there is a ftp site in europe. I can't remember if it runs on NT, so check out the site. At 10:58 AM 1/1/98 -0800, you wrote: >Okay, I'd like to set up a remailer - but I don't know where to start! Unfortunatly it's going to have to run on an NT 4.0 box, so the winsock remailer is out of the question, right? And I'm not in the US, so I can't use the juno stuff -- so what (if anything) *can* I use? > >Thanks for any help... > > > > > > From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: David Miller Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 09:08:51 +0800 To: "Robert A. Costner" Subject: Re: IRC Internet chat with Electronic Frontiers (fwd) In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980101141316.0362f05c@mail.atl.bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <34AC4B93.5ECBC8DD@avana.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Robert A. Costner wrote: > > To be honest, I'm getting confused on the time zones. Today I noticed a > mistake I made earlier when I added when I should have subtracted. Plus I > haven't figured out Australia and GMT time yet, to do it without thinking. > More info about times, and hopefully any corrections can be found at > > http://www.efga.org/about/meeting.html There is a Windows 3.1/95 program called "WorldClock" you might want to see at: http://www.mindspring.com/~otterson/worldclock/index.html I haven't tried it myself, so don't consider this an endorsement. --David Miller middle rival devil rim lad Windows '95 -- a dirty, two-bit operating system. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Julian Assange Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 19:08:37 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Jim Bell... lives... on... in... Hollywood! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Anyone noticed this before? ------- Start of forwarded message ------- Date: 1 Jan 1998 09:54:51 -0000 Message-ID: <19980101095451.25998.qmail@suburbia.net> From: proff@suburbia.net To: proff@suburbia.net Subject:home.html Scoop the Grim Reaper! Who will live? Who will die? And who will win the grand prize in Dewey's Death Pool -- an all-expense paid, two-day Hollywood Death Tour for two. Or one of four quarterly prizes -- a fabulous celebrity death library. It's fun, it's easy -- and all you have to do to win is correctly forecast more celebrity deaths for the calendar year 1998 than any other entrant. Here's how it works: Between now and December 31, 1997, fill out an entry form, listing your picks in descending likelihood of death. For instance, if you believe Celebrity X is a cinch to die within the year, list him or her in the No. 1 slot, followed by your second most likely choice in the No. 2 slot, etc. For tie-breaking reasons, a correct pick in the top slot is worth 10 points, a correct pick in the second is worth 9 points, and so forth. (Please list an alternative name in the event that one of your choices dies before the game begins. The alternative will be substituted in the empty slot and you will not receive credit for the original name.) At the end of the year, the contestant with the most correct picks wins. If there's a tie, the winner will be the person with the highest point total. In the event of a point-tie, the contestant with the youngest decedent will win. Judges' decisions are final. In addition, quarterly prizes (an assortment of guide books, maps, videos and other celebrity death memoribilia) will be awarded for the most correct picks within the four three-month intervals ending 11:59 EST on March 31, June 30, September 30 and December 31, 1998. In the event of ties, tie-breaker rules described above apply. Standings will be updated on the site regularly. To qualify as a correct "hit," a death must be noted in one or more of the following publications: New York Times, Los Angeles Times, U.S.A. Today, Time, Newsweek or People. Paid obituaries do not count; the death notice MUST appear in the context of a news story, roundup item or editorial obituary. If someone's death is not mentioned in one of the above publications, you will not receive credit. You will not receive credit for a death if you somehow contribute to that person's demise. If there's any dispute over the exact date of a celebrity's demise, information listed on the death certificate will prevail. Dewey's Death Pool is open to residents of the 50 United States and the District of Columbia who are 18 years or older. For complete rules, see the Official Rules. [INLINE] home | entry | rules _________________________________________________________________ Back to Webb Page Confidential ------- End of forwarded message ------- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Lucky Green Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 08:31:10 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Need secondary DNS Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I am looking for somebody outside North America to run a secondary DNS for cypherpunks.to. Please email me directly, not the list. Thanks, -- Lucky Green PGP v5 encrypted email preferred. "Tonga? Where the hell is Tonga? They have Cypherpunks there?" From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Brian B. Riley" Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 13:36:30 +0800 To: "Jim Choate" Subject: Re: Guns: H&K, G3, 7.62 v 5.56 [Guns] (fwd) Message-ID: <199801020526.AAA02793@mx01.together.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On 1/1/98 2:19 PM, Jim Choate (ravage@ssz.com) passed this wisdom: >> Subject: Re: Guns: H&K, G3, 7.62 v 5.56 [Guns] >> From: Ryan Lackey >> Date: 01 Jan 1998 13:47:02 -0500 > >> 2) In my (somewhat limited) experience, many field-improvised >> concealment locations are great during firing, but when you move >> to cycle the action on a bolt action rifle, you make the concealment >> shake or otherwise reveal yourself. Against a force with >> sniper/antisniper weaponry, that will likely > >> All that being said, for field use and home defense, if I'm alone, >> I'd take a barrett .50 browning for long-range USMC-style >> scout-sniping, or > >You obviously haven't seen the flash or the dust cloud from one of >these beasties fired from ground level. Hiding at anything less >than a mile is notsomething you're going to do very well. IIRC, the Barret gun with all its gear is also a multiperson load as well, so the 'alone' part isn't very valid either. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBNKx6SD7r4fUXwraZAQEzGgf/Ymp7/s0+FlgpBQgNs81x8cqasRAjFrIf gvF0fG+XsLeoDaeohFf1uKUktkYE0zoO5G3IBBY9QJ69uPYDKlyFfQJldWYHPL56 2i9bfMuqnrj+sCOLJl54X/WaucO9WrUYNC16RulXblPohj8HBqGp9y73iybbfycb mQdbfhyTYeuM5X3vjcCOVzKHTl4hPqxijeJjL4OUtx5NeUDnZWlp9PRkVDY5CHLu dvr8LJvmbF9vzUSOLAjUeHD3j8rjzR8wRQ9ZeeDkH6leevjuI1NAH/J1xB5bWxgC zrzud/QFgs0rX38YZlLnpP4iekXcqWaq2j+SfptBD1BthK7nuqf9mg== =33z2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Brian B. Riley --> http://members.macconnect.com/~brianbr For PGP Keys "Saying windows 95 is equal to Macintosh is like finding a potato that looks like Jesus and believing you've seen the Second Coming." -- Guy Kawasaki (MacWorld, Nov '95) From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Anonymous Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 19:00:33 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Re: Freedom Forum report on the State of the First Amendment Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > Which reminds me. We never did get a good one for the Russians. Any >nominations? Klintonkov? As in Comrade Klintonkov? From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 22:40:03 +0800 To: cypherpunks@www.video-collage.com Subject: Meganet's Unbreakable Virtual Matrix Encryption Takes the Market by Storm; Finally in 1998 Absolute Security... Message-ID: <199801021435.IAA27120@manifold.algebra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text CNN Custom News: Repeat/Meganet's Unbreakable Virtual Matrix Encryption Takes the Market by Storm; Finally in 1998 Absolute Security... LA Times 02-JAN-98 LOS ANGELES--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Dec. 31, 1997--Finally Meganet's highly acclaimed unbreakable encryption, Virtual Matrix Encryption (VME) is for sale. Meganet, a San Fernando Valley software development company, is proud to announce the release of a full line of encryption products. VME 98 is available in six (6) levels of front-end applications in three (3) flavors: DOS, Win 16 (Windows 3.x), and Win 32 (Windows 95 & NT). The VME 98 Standard Edition, VME 98 Professional Edition, VME 98 Enterprise Edition, VME 98 Custom Client Edition, VME 98 Custom Server Edition, & VME 98 Batch Server Edition provide unprecedented security, options, and flexibility. The pricing ranges from $100.00 for a single retail license to over $1,000,000.00 for the most sophisticated VME 98 Batch Server Edition. In addition, three (3) SDK's (Software Developer Kits) are ready to assist software developers in easily integrating VME 98 into their existing and future products. The three (3) SDK's include an 8bit DOS Engine, 16bit Windows DLL (Win 3.x) and 32bit Windows DLL (Win 95 & NT). The possibilities are endless with the array of VME 98 products. Now any application including but not limited to Internet commerce, Government communications, banking transactions, corporate secrets and personal computer data can be guaranteed complete impenetrability. Yes, the VME 98 is the same product that was posted on the Internet with a $1 million reward for anyone that could break a VME encrypted file. Over fifty five thousand (55,000) tried with zero (0) success. Yes, the VME 98 is the same product that challenged Microsoft, IBM, AT&T, Dell, Hewlett-Packard, Intel, America Online, Netscape, etc. to break a VME encrypted file. All the great computer minds in this country have had an opportunity to dispel the bold claims of unbreakable encryption, yet none have. Meganet is pleased to offer the same standard of excellence with all of the VME 98 packages. Additional information about this exciting new technology can be found at www.meganet.com From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Attila T. Hun" Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 16:51:33 +0800 To: Bill Stewart Subject: Time to Pay the Piper Message-ID: <19980102.081442.attila@hun.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >From: Bill Stewart >To: "Attila T. Hun" , > cypherpunks >Subject: Re: Making them eat their words... (while they watch!) >Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 11:56:54 -0800 > > At 05:15 PM 12/21/1997 +0000, Attila T. Hun wrote: >> there is only one solution to organizations like M$ >> which are operated without ethics: treat them to the >> pleasures of not only the antitrust laws but the >> exquisite delights of RICO. > Nonsense, and I'm surprised to hear this from you. No, Bill. it's not nonsense... 1) when a true market monopoly exists, society _is_ entitled to intervene. I wrote my Harvard thesis on antitrust and the effect on society of a monopoly, regulated in the public interest as in AT&T v. the industrial monopolies. this may have been 35 years ago, but the principles are even more imperative now with the increasing concentration of real wealth both individually and corporately in the hands of a few. 2) why should you be surprised to hear this from me? sure, I would prefer anarchy per se, but have absolutely no faith that the vast majority would do anything except rape, pillage, and plunder. and, I think I have made my beliefs more than plain over the history trail of cypherpunks. anarchy is nothing more than an isolationist theory; as a political system it does not work --never has, never will. ergo, there is a need for some government in the interest of the people (sheeple, if you prefer). man has not proved his worth on this planet, and whether or not you believe in God is irrelevant. the last several generations have bequeathed a wilting, dying polluted earth to their children and grandchildren. therefore, I am neither your revolutionary anarchist nor your "lost in the clouds" libertarian idealist; I am just a pragmatist who wishes we could govern with an enlightened electorate in the manner of a New Hampshire town meeting; a pragmatist that I believe limited regulation is essential, but a foolish dreamer to hope for an enlightened electorate. > Treat them to the pleasures of the free market - > if you don't like them, start a Boycott M$ campaign, > and see if people stop buying their lousy software. no, Bill, there is no alternative in the mass market. A perfect example is Gate$ buying _both_ WebTV and their competitor to make sure he has _all_ the action. another is EnCarta. Gate$ gave it away until the other vendors dropped out of the market; now M$ charges for the encyclopedia. Gate$ is the perfect example of not only a pure monopoly with 90% of the OS market, but also a constructive monopoly who has leveraged the first position to force monopolies in other areas: 95% of word processing, 95% of spreadsheets, and approaching the total domination of the browser market. Secondly, Gate$ is spreading into the control of the means of distribution in cable, networks, etc. and likewise into media content. Gate$ current actions are those of a spoiled four year old child who sees nothing wrong with demanding it all. > The direct democracy of the free market is far more > appropriate than government here - it's $1/vote, > and if enough people vote against M$ they'll get the hint, > and it enough people vote _for_ M$, it's none of your > business. WRONG! when 90% of the voters are dependent on M$, M$ has bought the vote. to the average user, to vote against M$ is to vote against a free v. a not-free browser, etc. WRONG AGAIN: the OEM computer group has no choice either; software is available from virtually every software house for M$ --and only M$. therefore the OEM has no choice of operating system. without the software, any competing OS is useless. M$ has also intimidated and constrained the software houses. Corel is a good case in point with M$ threatening to withhold critical information on Windows 95 if Corel delivered their 32 bit product to OS/2 first. WRONG AGAIN: M$ has required OEMs to load Explorer as part of the "privilege" to be able to load the OS. That is restraint of trade. when they try to exercise total market control through their customers with their own marketing policies. WRONG AGAIN: M$ is forcing Explorer on totally non-related software vendors. Why should the accounting software vendor in MN be required to load Explorer to be able to distribute the OS --and, most additional M$ packages in networking, etc required Explorer for essential DLLs. this is "binding" in FTC unfair practices regulations. > It _is_ funny to see the Feds hiring a big corporate lawyer > to run their case; I guess they don't think Federal Prosecutors > are good enough. Surely if a low-level prosecutor can't hack it, > they should use their boss, and on up the hierarchical chain. > If Janet Reno can't do it either, they should replace her with > someone who can :-) GRIN? Bill, I'm surprised you would say this. Reno is not an anti-trust specialist. just how many of them are there in the country as a whole? not many? why? --not much anti-trust action; usually the FTC has been able to block mergers, etc. before they become a menace to society such as M$ has become. this is where the failure of the free market comes in: few companies manage to attain the total monopoly position; _none_ to date have done so with clean hands. frankly, Gate$' hands are dirtier than Cornelius Vanderbilt's hands were in his heyday; and Cornelius Vanderbilt made John D. Rockefeller and J.P. Morgan look like angels. Gate$' literally has not only violated the anti-trust laws and the FTC rules on fair competition, but he has done so deliberately in what can easily be defined as a conspiracy to limit or prevent access to the market --and that can be construed as a RICO offense --and should be. Neither Gate$ nor Ballmer show the slightest interest in backing off what they consider their God given rights in a free market to rape, pillage, and burn; they feel that M$ is entitled to tell the American (or world) buyer what he wants to buy. monopoly eliminates freedom of choice. I do not usually have much use for Jesse Berst, whom I generally consider a senseless and shameless M$ schill, like the rest of Ziff-Davis; however, this is what Jesse had to say Monday: Jesse Berst, 22 Dec. "I'm a fan of its [Microsoft's] accomplishments and its great products. More than that, I'm a fan of personal computing. That's why I can say that it's better for us -- and better for Microsoft -- if the DOJ forces the company to play fair. Only intense competition can keep a company from the hardening of the attitudes that eventually damaged companies such as IBM, Digital, Wang and Data General." to engender that competition, M$ needs to be forced to divest either operating systems or products. despite any imagined gains of their increasing integration, the market can not fall to a monolithic line and then expect further advances with no-one nipping at M$' heels unfortunately, M$ idea of competition has not been to be just the market leader --it has fostered an attitude that it can be the only player. and like all monopolies, M$ has fallen into the Al Sloan mode ("What's good for General Motors is good for the country"). more Jesse Berst, 22 Dec. "That's why I can say with all sincerity, the more you like Microsoft, the more you admire its accomplishments, the more you appreciate its products, the more you should root for the DOJ to win its latest case. Anybody who thinks otherwise should be forced to attend every single match of the World Wide Wrestling Federation next year. That will give them an up-close-and-painful taste of what happens when you do away with competition. Jesse, the Microsoft schill, is now at least as strident as I have been since the late 80s when the uncontrolled direction of Gate$' marketing and operating system leverage over office products became more than evident. the DOJ should have broken M$ into separate companies in 1994. instead, the DOJ made a deal with a "Joe Stalin", who, true to Lenin's manifestos, would sign any treaty which bought him time to develop the prohibited weapons --then he broke it. M$ violated the consent decree before it was certified in court and. in reality, applied even more onerous terms to the hardware OEM vendors; we are reaping the results of Gate$ incredible arrogance today. Gate$ also broke the public trust by arrogantly usurping by whatever means more of the market --his actions today are untenable in a civilized market. any suggestions that if you do not like M$, you should not buy M$ products are hollow inanities --to the public, there is no alternative --economies of scale and market dominance have wiped out all but a few niche market vendors. the sheeple never revolt; they just follow the Judas goat to the abattoir happily enjoying the free software while Gate$ builds his tollGate$ (nice pun --guess I will add that to my lexicon). the sheeple will not be happy when they find themselves being nicked for every transaction, on or off Gate$' networks. --and if Gate$ actions over the past 3 years were not enough, his ridiculous, affrontive, and offensive response to the Judge's order is prima facie evidence of not only a monopoly, not only a constructive monopoly, but a tyrannical, maniacal monster who is still a spoiled four year old brat with absolutely no conscience or sense of social responsibility. the fact Steve Ballmer, et al, echo this dictatorial policy in violation of US law is prima facia evidence of an ongoing criminal enterprise which employs extortion --yes, literally extortion-- in the furtherance of its business plan --and this is a RICO offense for which Gate$ and his henchman certainly appear to have deservedly earned the right to 3 hots and a cot for the 20 years minimum on the lesser RICO charge, or mandatory life imprisonment on a conspiracy of greater than 6. Secondly, none of Gate$ lieutenants and captains can claim they acted under orders; it wont fly any more than it flew at Nuremberg. Esther Dyson (with Margie Wylie of CNET) But it is big government that's watching them, not ... Yes--and that's why we need to keep...I mean, God bless the Justice Department for fighting Microsoft; God bless Microsoft for creating good products, and the customers for keeping everybody in line. This is what I want: I don't want anybody to win. I want the game to keep going. I want little guys to keep on coming up and tweaking the noses of the big guys. I've always been a believer in antitrust. It's the concentration of power that bothers me, not whether it's "for profit" or "for government." And I've never claimed to be or not to be a Libertarian. People put labels on things and stop thinking. a good clear statement from Dyson on the public interest. do you think M$ should be permitted to behave in their autocratic and callous manner towards software developers who have no need for Explorer? Brian Glaeske, a programmer/analyst with Fargo, North Dakota-based Great Plains Software, complained to the US Justice Department last month that Microsoft effectively requires him and others to provide its browser in his accounting software, which has nothing to do with the World Wide Web or the Internet. "Microsoft should not be permitted to force third-party developers to redistribute Microsoft Internet Explorer in order to use [new] features," Glaeske wrote to Joel Klein, the Justice Department's top pursuer of antitrust allegations. is not Glaeske's position reasonable? the real point however, does not relate to the browser; the bottom line is that Glaeske, and most of the software developers, do not have an alternative to Microsoft as an operating system. Oh, sure, some clients will run Unix flavours and there are vendors for most high profile applications on unix and OS/2, but the vast majority (90%) of the clients take the easy way out and go Microsoft --M$ is what the employees have at home; M$ is what the "trained" employees have used before.... there are millions of arguments, after WinTel being cheaper, why they should not change --starting with "why should we be different?" a pure free market is anarchy; anarchy may be a wonderful idea for utopian people; the human race is far from being anything except a selfish, greedy collection of individuals who are constrained either by the threats of fire and brimstone from the church, or the laws of the land which punish transgressions of socially acceptable behaviour --fair or not. even Teddy Roosevelt wrote that anarchists should be hunted down and exterminated like vermin. William H. Gates III is just another robber baron who really believes the statement: "What's good for Microsoft is good for the country." Al Sloan never realized his monopoly with General Motors, although there have been periods where GM was over 50% of the market (when Chrysler was close to failing). Bill Gates has created an effective monopoly _world_ _wide_ which far surpasses any monopoly ever created by one individual or company; even John D. Rockefeller did not come close to Gate$' power. John D. was also rather benevolent. IBM never approached Gate$' level of monopoly. Gate$ has proven, and is proving while the very litigation is going on, that he is not a benevolent monopolist; there is only one way: Bill's way, and everyone will think like Bill, or they will be the vermin to be exterminated. and, that, my friends, is why there is such a thing as the public interest; and it should have been exercised on BadBillyG in 1994. my vote goes to prosecute Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer, at the very least, for violations of the Sherman Act, the Clayton Antitrust Act, and the Robinson-Patman amendments (FTC, etc.) to the full extent of the law, including criminal violations as warranted under those titles; and prosecute under the RICO statutes for an ongoing racketeering (extortion is racketeering) and criminal enterprise. frankly, I am disappointed that it has come to this, but Gate$ greed and lust for power has not only exceeded his common sense, it has transgressed the boundary of baseline social responsibility. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: latin1 Comment: No safety this side of the grave. Never was; never will be iQBVAwUBNKyor7R8UA6T6u61AQHtcAH/XVaZQWl+IicPv7adVvLy/Yy4xkBj7mUP lyU0ecw8oQPCxB2zhtPQcwvPtCMJVBc3y8UtSuAu/i8Kn4XzWeS+EA== =GIWP -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Eric Murray Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 01:53:04 +0800 To: whgiii@invweb.net Subject: Re: Mobile phones used as trackers In-Reply-To: <199801012054.PAA25297@users.invweb.net> Message-ID: <199801021756.JAA13004@slack.lne.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain William H. Geiger III writes: > In , on 12/31/97 > at 06:53 PM, Steve Schear said: > > >and keep your cell phone turned off. > > It is my understanding that they can still track you with the cell phone > turned off so long as there is power going to the box (most auto cell > phones are hardwired into the cars electrical system). How? The little I know about cellular is that the handset only broadcasts to the cells when its on. Of course, 'on' and 'off' might mean different things on a hand-held with limited battery life, and a mobile that's connected to a large battery with a generator (car). But it doesn't make sense to have the even the mobile system constantly communicating with cells and getting hand-offs when the operator has switched it 'off' and isn't using it- it'd be taking up bandwidth for no reason at all. And we all know that cellular bandwidth is in short supply. -- Eric Murray Chief Security Scientist N*Able Technologies www.nabletech.com (email: ericm at lne.com or nabletech.com) PGP keyid:E03F65E5 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Kay Ping Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 18:28:20 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: Location Escrow anyone ? Message-ID: <19980102101945.10999.qmail@nym.alias.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>ZURICH (December 28, 1997 4:12 p.m. EST http://www.nando.net) - Swiss >>police have secretly tracked the whereabouts of mobile phone users via a >>telephone company computer that records billions of movements going back >>more than half a year, a Sunday newspaper reported. > >Don't be fooled that this is a swiss only problem. It's being done here in >Amerika right now. The FCC has issued a ruling that will require all cellular telephone carriers to provide location information on all 911 calls. By the year 2001, this location information is to provide 125 metres of accuracy 67% of the time. Helping emergency services locate 911 callers is a great excuse for installing a cellular location system. Even better than the excuses they gave for eavesdropping-ready digital switches and limits on encryption. - -------------- Kay Ping nop 'til you drop -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: cp850 iQEQAwUBNKyXURHPAso8Qp7tAQH+LgfRATtByYG8nB+gbqvrJ96SGdhRPhXUWnzl 7gHW9+nr6lNQxgbFnU1cpOKR76Y0MEj80ls9n9DojlQuIKJD1RHXc7GQA3k0IVZU yXYyy8Z89dvVUxprVjt0MylxY1+fP7pGLVcViz9jZ/5cgZSgUdRKQNAWpp9g/Ww4 8GYSXGYGrC8hCPoD+i/cjwC3FEQVD+GzSmXnadK8a2a+stiehN1bw/p61+vizxQZ C9YG1AS54Ttzh/jUjnHmRwNYtY4J0i9zUXxElbwj8PcOW9GewTPw+/6fiQ63c35Q 2pCi2q9dk1jFtgIXfrBusSkKS9wP0yYmtLG6lc52YtC6MNE= =+pHY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Mix Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 02:53:58 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: remailer Message-ID: <199801021822.KAA05621@sirius.infonex.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain In a message dated 20:44 01/01/98 EST, you wrote: > Check out , for a remailer that will > run on any winsock compatible connection. I think there is a ftp site in > europe. I can't remember if it runs on NT, so check out the site. Thanks for the help - I've tried the latest version with no luck. The docs state that it works under win95 now but there are still some issues with NT 4.0 Has anyone got this to work under NT? I really want to give something back to the remailer/cypherpunk community and this is the only way I can think of. If anyone has experience of the Winsock remailer and can help... From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 03:39:14 +0800 To: cypherpunks@www.video-collage.com Subject: Re: Meganet's Unbreakable Virtual Matrix Encryption Takes theMarket by Storm; Finally in 1998 Absolute Security... In-Reply-To: <199801021435.IAA27120@manifold.algebra.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 6:35 AM -0800 1/2/98, Igor Chudov @ home wrote: >CNN Custom News: > Repeat/Meganet's Unbreakable Virtual Matrix Encryption Takes > the Market by Storm; Finally in 1998 Absolute Security... > > LA Times 02-JAN-98 LOS ANGELES--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Dec. 31, > 1997--Finally Meganet's highly acclaimed unbreakable encryption, > All the great > computer minds in this country have had an opportunity to > dispel the bold claims of unbreakable encryption, yet none have. All the great computer minds.... They laughed at Galileo, they laughed at Darwin, they laughed at Bozo the Clown. Jeesh. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: jim@mentat.com (Jim Gillogly) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 04:13:57 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: Meganet's Unbreakable Virtual Matrix Encryption Takes the Market by Storm; Finally in 1998 Absolute Security... Message-ID: <9801022007.AA03484@mentat.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain IChudov relays from CNN Custom News: > Repeat/Meganet's Unbreakable Virtual Matrix Encryption Takes > the Market by Storm; Finally in 1998 Absolute Security... That reminds me... in PR Newswire on 16 Dec 1997 it was reported that IBM had endorsed Meganet's VME, and recommended that NIST replace the DES standard with it (presumably in the AES bake-off). This was humorous enough that I thought it worth sharing with IBM -- I ingenously asked them whether it was true, and, if so, how they came to the conclusion that it was a useful product. They responded: I would like to apologize for the length of time it took to reply to your message. I had to make a few phonecalls and had to wait for someone to get back to me. I spoke with a Cryptography Specialist and she informed me that IBM has, in fact, not tested their product and therefore has not endorsed it. IBM has no further comment regarding the report. I hope this helps. Thank you for using askIBM. George Lavasidis (ASKIBM@vnet.ibm.com) IBM Internet Support Group 1-800-IBM-4YOU I, too, have no further comment. Jim Gillogly Hevensday, 11 Afteryule S.R. 1998, 20:11 12.19.4.14.11, 8 Chuen 9 Kankin, Third Lord of Night From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Paul Bradley Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 21:49:07 +0800 To: Mikhael Frieden Subject: Re: Freedom Forum report on the State of the First Amendment In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980101165908.0c4f464c@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > >No, acts of law which require employers not to discriminate against > >niggers, wops, kikes or greezers, or any other ratial group infringe > >basic rights of association, I personally have no racist prejudices, but > >recognise the freedom of others to be as bigotted as they care to be. > > Does that include the krauts, micks, limeys, frogs as well as the > canucks and pea soup eaters? The polacks, chinks and dagos? The Wogs too? Indeed it does. > Which reminds me. We never did get a good one for the Russians. Any > nominations? Reds is always a good one, and especially ignorant and offensive since the communist tyranny was replaced with a "democratic" one. Can`t think of any others offhand. Datacomms Technologies data security Paul Bradley, Paul@fatmans.demon.co.uk Paul@crypto.uk.eu.org, Paul@cryptography.uk.eu.org Http://www.cryptography.home.ml.org/ Email for PGP public key, ID: FC76DA85 "Don`t forget to mount a scratch monkey" From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Pearson Shane Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 11:59:44 +0800 To: "'cypherpunks@toad.com> Subject: RE: Location Escrow anyone ? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Hello all, >> "Swisscom has stored data on the movements of more than a million mobile >> phone users. It can call up the location of all its mobile subscribers down >> to a few hundred meters and going back at least half a year," the paper >> reported. > >They probably say a few hundred meters so the people don't feel >their privacy is too ridiculously invaded / soften the blow. > >If this is a GSM network then I think they can probably pinpoint >your location down to 2 possible locations within a few meters >due to the digital timing involved with the very precise spread >spectrum radio. Or maybe your actual location within a meter or 2. > >I have heard of digital mobile phones that have a feature in their test/diag >mode that displays the distance to the current base station in meters, >and also displays info of a second base station that it would most likely >switch to when moving out of the current cell. >Even if the telco only had the distance info to your phone within a meter >from 2 of their base stations, they could calculate where you are if need >be to 2 possible locations within meters. >Surely though they would have the capability of recording distance info >from 3 base stations, pin pointing you exactly during a call or the exact >spot your phone requested a cell change. > >And during a call, if need be, they could probably plot your position at >around 10,000 samples per second. :) Though for them to be keeping >this much info on you, you are obviously being investigated. > >Isn't it ironic that people who use GSM for it's "security" can have this >much info of their whereabouts known to big brother/whoever? >Not to mention their actual conversation. > >Imagine Mr.Drug Dealer turns up to court and watches as the jury is >presented with a floorplan on screen and an animated pinpoint of his >phones position while a recording of his conversation is played in sync? > >The world just about, has no idea! >To say big brother is watching is a gross understatement. :) > >He's gunna find out who's naughty and nice. > >Bye for now. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Lance Cottrell Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 09:19:12 +0800 To: wayne clerke Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 1:32 AM +0000 12/31/97, wayne clerke wrote: >On Tuesday, December 30, 1997 7:56 AM, Mark Hedges >[SMTP:hedges@rigel.cyberpass.net] wrote: >> >> >> We found IRC users to be so involved in petty information wars -- >> ping floods, malicious prank hacking, and the like -- that we directed >> policy against use of IRC from the anonymous shell accounts at CyberPass. >> >> If IRC users weren't so easily lulled by the tempation to crash a server >> or run malicious bots or just plain irritate other people for fun, and >> if they would gang up and kick out people who did that, then perhaps we'd >> switch that back on. >> >> They were just too much overhead. Everyone else seems pretty nice, really, >> as far as the system goes. They're all self-interested in keeping the >> anonymous publishing and so on going, so the peace keeps itself. > > >What's the reason behind the policy direction against the use of personal web >proxies running in a (paid for) shell account? >Seems like less risk than you already accept anyway. Something I've missed? > System load is the issue in this case. If a proxy becomes publicly known the load it imposes on the system could quickly become gigantic. In addition we found that people were setting up proxies on any old port, sometimes causing all kinds of conflicts. Our accounts are priced assuming light personal usage. Running servers on our systems is negotiable. -Lance ---------------------------------------------------------- Lance Cottrell loki@infonex.com PGP 2.6 key available by finger or server. http://www.infonex.com/~loki/ "Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra. Suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath. At night the ice weasels come." --Nietzsche ---------------------------------------------------------- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 09:21:05 +0800 To: Eric Cordian Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 4:48 PM -0800 1/2/98, Eric Cordian wrote: >Newsgroups: alt.true-crime >Subject: Kennedy Death Spurs Legislative Initiative >Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 22:44:03 GMT >Message-ID: <68jrg6$eil@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com> > >BOSTON, Mass. (AP) - Sen. Ted Kennedy announced here today that he >will introduce a bill limiting access to skis and ski poles. The >"Winter Sports Safety Bill" is believed to be a reaction to the recent >death of the Senator's nephew Michael Kennedy in a skiing accident. ... And on a more serious note, one thing this affair shows is that once again, the Kennedy clan (KC) lives by different rules. Whether it's Edward Kennedy getting off in the Mary Jo Kopechne case, when any of us would have likely been charged with a) drunk driving, b) leaving the scene, c) lying in an investigation, or whether it's this very same Michael Kennedy getting off with his underage babysitter.... (Why was he not charged with statutory rape? Because the KC got to the babysitter and, it is widely reported, bought her off. So why was the _criminal_ charge of statutory rape not still applied? Because the babysitter wouldn't testify.) And so on, over and over again. Wanna bet that if I was on the hill in Aspen horsing around playing ski football and behaving like a drunken lout with a bunch of other people the ski patrol would whistle us down and tell us to knock it off? Justice has always been for sale in America. But with tens of thousands of new laws, the effects are just becoming more obvious. I say the death of Michael Kennedy, as with the death of Princess Di, was just an example of evolution in action. (An imperfect example, of course, as Di had already been bred.) Regrettably, this satire about the Safe Slopes and Children's Protection Act of 1998 is on the mark. Clueless bimbos like Swinestein, who's never passed up a chance to make another law, will be jockeying for regulation of the ski slopes...even as the Kennedy Clan remains exempt. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Eric Cordian Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 08:51:47 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: [Humor] Kennedy's New Legislation Message-ID: <199801030048.SAA02365@wire.insync.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Something amusing from alt.true-crime with definite crypto parallels to certain Swinestein and Freeh initiatives. It is rare to find material that rises to the Toto level of comedy on Usenet. ----- Newsgroups: alt.true-crime Subject: Kennedy Death Spurs Legislative Initiative Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 22:44:03 GMT Message-ID: <68jrg6$eil@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com> BOSTON, Mass. (AP) - Sen. Ted Kennedy announced here today that he will introduce a bill limiting access to skis and ski poles. The "Winter Sports Safety Bill" is believed to be a reaction to the recent death of the Senator's nephew Michael Kennedy in a skiing accident. "When skis were invented, they were made out of wood," Kennedy said. "Today's skis are simply to powerful and dangerous to be in the hands of people. There is no constitutional right to skiing. We feel that people will have to sacrifice some of their freedoms for the protection of society as a whole." One provision will license all dealers in skis. These licenses will involve fingerprinting, background checks, body cavity searches, and photographs of anybody wishing to be in the business of selling skis and ski poles. Another section of the bill bans any ski pole under 36" in length and any ski which is not at least 48" in length. The bill also addresses ski wax. Studies have shown that some waxes actually make the skis go faster, creating a greater danger of death to the skier. Skiers also use the faster skis to outrun the ski patrol, which is not an acceptable practice. A five day waiting period will be required for all ski and ski pole sales. People will be required to provide their social security number and floor plan of their homes before being permitted to purchase skis. "There are simply too many people getting excited about skiing. Easy access to skis is the major reason people get killed on those things. They should have to wait before they can pick up their skis. I am sure that this 'cooling off period' will save lives," Kennedy said. Another bill has been introduced that will ban 'ski carrying devices' on tops of cars that have a capacity of greater than ten skis. "There is simply no reason why anybody needs more than ten skis. You can't ski on more than two at the same time. People with more than ten skis are simply up to no good," said Kennedy. Statistics quoted by the Center for Disease Control show that skiing was second only to drowning as the leading cause of death for people close to the Kennedy family. OTHER RELATED STORIES: - Ted Kennedy Denies Driving Michael to Aspen. - Study Links Skiing to Suicides. - Clinton Calls for Restrictions on "Cop Killer" Ski Poles. - Washington DC to Buy Back Skis for $2 Each. - Dianne Feinstein Vows Defeat for the National Skiing Association. -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law" From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 10:14:55 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Creative Justice?... [CNN] (fwd) Message-ID: <199801030233.UAA16300@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: >From ravage@ssz.com Fri Jan 2 20:33:21 1998 From: Jim Choate Message-Id: <199801030233.UAA16279@einstein.ssz.com> Subject: Creative Justice?... [CNN] To: users@ssz.com (SSZ User Mail List) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 20:33:15 -0600 (CST) Cc: friends@ssz.com (Ravage's Friends) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2327 Forwarded message: > DRUNKEN DRIVER ORDERED CLOSER TO LIQUOR STORE > > graphic January 2, 1998 > Web posted at: 8:39 p.m. EST (0139 GMT) > > CINCINNATI (Reuters) -- An Ohio judge has ordered a chronic drunken > driver to move within easy walking distance of a liquor store or > face jail. > > In a sentence meted out on New Year's Eve, Hillsboro Municipal Judge > James Hapner ordered Dennis Cayse to move within "easy walking > distance" -- defined as one-half mile or less -- of a liquor store > within 30 days or face a potential 1-1/2-year jail sentence for > drunken driving. > > It was Cayse's 18th conviction for drunken driving. He was also > sentenced to spend the first week of each of the next five years in > jail. > > The judge also directed that Cayse, who lost his license years ago > but continued to drink and drive, be handcuffed to the > passenger-side door or be seated with someone between him and the > driver anytime he travels. > > University of Cincinnati law professor Christo Lassiter said the > multiple sentence passed constitutional muster. > > "It appears to me that this sentence is neither unconstitutional nor > inappropriate," Lassiter told Reuters Friday. "It looks to me like > the judge felt that there was nothing he could do to keep the man > off the road except to make him move to where he could walk to buy > his booze." > > Hillsboro is a town of 6,000 just east of Cincinnati. > > "For as long as I have been associated with law enforcement, I have > never heard of such an unusual sentence. It's very squirrelly," said > Lt. Ronald Ward of the Highland County sheriff's office. > > "I have known Dennis Cayse a long time and I've never seen him sober > except when he was in jail," Ward said. "His lifetime record shows > that if he is not in jail, he's going to drink and drive." > > A spokeswoman for Mothers Against Drunk Driving denounced the > sentence, saying it was too lenient and sends the wrong public > message. > > Copyright 1998 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Alexandre Maret Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 05:35:59 +0800 To: "'cypherpunks@toad.com> Subject: Re: Location Escrow anyone ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <34AD5B24.520C3851@infomaniak.ch> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Pearson Shane wrote: > > Hello all, > > >> "Swisscom has stored data on the movements of more than a million mobile > >> phone users. It can call up the location of all its mobile subscribers down > >> to a few hundred meters and going back at least half a year," the paper > >> reported. > > > >They probably say a few hundred meters so the people don't feel > >their privacy is too ridiculously invaded / soften the blow. > > > >If this is a GSM network then I think they can probably pinpoint > >your location down to 2 possible locations within a few meters > >due to the digital timing involved with the very precise spread > >spectrum radio. Or maybe your actual location within a meter or 2. it is a GSM network, however, I doubt that they try to know more than just the cell you're in... but you never know [snip] > >Imagine Mr.Drug Dealer turns up to court and watches as the jury is > >presented with a floorplan on screen and an animated pinpoint of his > >phones position while a recording of his conversation is played in sync? yes... except that everybody but Mr.Drug Dealer use these mobile phones (marketed under the name "Natel-D"). In switzerland, you can buy GSM phones that works with prepaid cards. No trace, no name. The location can still be pinpointed, but nobody know who's owning the phone. This is called "Natel Easy" (what a name). It cost much more, but depending on the business you're conducting, it's not a problem... To conclude: everybody is watched, except Mr.DD... > >The world just about, has no idea! > >To say big brother is watching is a gross understatement. :) this is the problem in switzerland. When I first heard about this story (and believe me, it's not the only one of that kind... it's not even the worse), I tried to ask people around me to see what they think about this, and I was amazed by their reaction. "There is no problem, I'm not doing anything wrong." The media are beginning to relate this kind of facts, but the people are still incredibly naive. One more thing we can say about this story: Switzerland's telecom market is now free (since 1.1.98), and this story may give some people (altough I'm not sure...) a reason to change their telco (when possible). Another fact of the 1997 year in switerland: the largest retailer in switzerland (Migros http://www.migros.ch) launched the M-Cumulus card. Each time you buy something by Migros, you can present this card and get a 1% rebate (wow...) and you may also get special rebate "tailored to your needs". But, to get this card, you have to sign an agreement that allows Migros to record what you buys. On the 20th november 1997, 1.6mio of citizen were in the database (about 1/4th of the swiss population). When requesting this card, you also provide the name and date of birth of each in the household (you're not forced to do so, but 97% of the M-Cumulus owners filled this information). (source: partially "Le Nouveau Quotidien", 20th nov 1997) The federal government was supposed to issue a warning. If a warning was issued, I may have been sleeping at that time... Swiss Federal Data Protection Commissioner: http://www.edsb.ch/ mostly empty... not a word about these 2 stories. you see how the swiss people are informed... alex From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Remo Pini Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 06:56:30 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: Location Escrow anyone ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980102234524.00977740@linux> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 22:24 02.01.98 +0100, you wrote: > >Pearson Shane wrote: >> >> Hello all, >> >> >> "Swisscom has stored data on the movements of more than a million mobile >> >> phone users. It can call up the location of all its mobile subscribers down >> >> to a few hundred meters and going back at least half a year," the paper >> >> reported. >> > >> >They probably say a few hundred meters so the people don't feel >> >their privacy is too ridiculously invaded / soften the blow. >> > >> >If this is a GSM network then I think they can probably pinpoint >> >your location down to 2 possible locations within a few meters >> >due to the digital timing involved with the very precise spread >> >spectrum radio. Or maybe your actual location within a meter or 2. > >it is a GSM network, however, I doubt that they try to know more than >just the cell you're in... but you never know They can't really (the cell relay equipment is not up to the task). >> >Imagine Mr.Drug Dealer turns up to court and watches as the jury is >> >presented with a floorplan on screen and an animated pinpoint of his >> >phones position while a recording of his conversation is played in sync? > >yes... except that everybody but Mr.Drug Dealer use these mobile >phones (marketed under the name "Natel-D"). In switzerland, you can >buy GSM phones that works with prepaid cards. No trace, no name. The >location can still be pinpointed, but nobody know who's owning the >phone. This is called "Natel Easy" (what a name). It cost much more, >but depending on the business you're conducting, it's not a problem... > >To conclude: everybody is watched, except Mr.DD... > >> >The world just about, has no idea! >> >To say big brother is watching is a gross understatement. :) > >this is the problem in switzerland. When I first heard about this >story (and believe me, it's not the only one of that kind... it's >not even the worse), I tried to ask people around me to see what >they think about this, and I was amazed by their reaction. "There >is no problem, I'm not doing anything wrong." The media are >beginning to relate this kind of facts, but the people are still >incredibly naive. You should have asked me instead :), I'm a bit more paranoid than most. (Yes, I most certainly don't have a Cumulus card and I have a Natel D-Easy for fun.) >One more thing we can say about this story: Switzerland's telecom >market is now free (since 1.1.98), and this story may give some >people (altough I'm not sure...) a reason to change their telco >(when possible). Until somewhen in 1999 you can only do international calls through alternate carriers (only Swisscom has access to the home so far, unless these cable operators really get serious, which they won't, because Swisscom owns more then 30% of their stock) and you have to prepend a 5 digit number to do a call until autumn (I don't think people without a pbx that can be programmed to automatically do that will switch carriers). >Another fact of the 1997 year in switerland: > >the largest retailer in switzerland (Migros http://www.migros.ch) >launched the M-Cumulus card. Each time you buy something by Migros, >you can present this card and get a 1% rebate (wow...) and you may >also get special rebate "tailored to your needs". But, to get this >card, you have to sign an agreement that allows Migros to record >what you buys. On the 20th november 1997, 1.6mio of citizen were >in the database (about 1/4th of the swiss population). When requesting >this card, you also provide the name and date of birth of each >in the household (you're not forced to do so, but 97% of the >M-Cumulus owners filled this information). > (source: partially "Le Nouveau Quotidien", 20th nov 1997) It is a bit worrying, but on the other hand, I don't consider my shopping list a very personal thing, after all, hardly anyone (except Monty Python) gets killed by a banana. >The federal government was supposed to issue a warning. If a warning >was issued, I may have been sleeping at that time... Well, I guess everybody was... >Swiss Federal Data Protection Commissioner: http://www.edsb.ch/ >mostly empty... not a word about these 2 stories. you see how the >swiss people are informed... Now this guy (Odilo Guntern) seems to have no clue about anything... Wanna get more paranoid? Some companies log all Internet traffic of their employees that passes through their proxy (which you have to use for anything to work) for some weeks (Weren't you the one chatting on #really-naughty-bits for more than 1 hour on Monday??). And of course, phonenumbers you call in your company are logged, too. See you, Remo ----------------------------------------------------- Fate favors the prepared mind. (from "Under Siege 3") ----------------------------------------------------- Remo Pini T: +41 1 350 28 88 Pini Computer Trading N: +41 79 216 15 51 http://www.rpini.com/ E: rp@rpini.com key: http://www.rpini.com/crypto/remopini.asc ----------------------------------------------------- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Patrick May Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 06:01:44 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: Time to Pay the Piper In-Reply-To: <19980102.081442.attila@hun.org> Message-ID: <1669-Sat03Jan1998030310-0800-Patrick May MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Attila T. Hun writes: [ . . . ] > > At 05:15 PM 12/21/1997 +0000, Attila T. Hun wrote: > >> there is only one solution to organizations like M$ > >> which are operated without ethics: treat them to the > >> pleasures of not only the antitrust laws but the > >> exquisite delights of RICO. [ . . . ] > 1) when a true market monopoly exists, society _is_ > entitled to intervene. I wrote my Harvard thesis on > antitrust and the effect on society of a monopoly, Ah, that explains why a bad-ass with a vocabulary would spout such nonsense. That little liberal arts college up the river from my alma mater can corrupt even the finest minds. Rather than go down yet another libertarian v. statist debate rathole, I'll just quote one of the more notorious (former) list members by saying: "I have a solution for that." The federal government should immediately stop purchasing and using Microsoft products. No more monopoly, no court cases, no delay. Free market and technical solutions are always superior to legal remedies. Regards, Patrick May S P Engineering, Inc. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Charlie Comsec Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 13:09:08 +0800 To: remailer-politics@server1.efga.org Subject: Re: Remailer Logs (and Accountability) In-Reply-To: <199712221346.OAA03091@basement.replay.com> Message-ID: <19980103050003.766.qmail@nym.alias.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- usura@sabotage.org (Alex de Joode) wrote: > : I suspect that if you polled remailer operators you'd find that some > : keep logs and some don't. I don't know about the Replay remailer. Perhaps > : Alex DeJoode (the operator of the Replay remailer) would care to comment. Nor > : can logs necessarily positively identify you. If kept, they would record when > : your message came in and when the post to usenet went out, but *PROBABLY* > : would not establish a conclusive link between the two. Many remailers > : maintain a "reordering pool" where forwarded messages do not necessarily get > : sent out in the order they were received. > > I donnot keep sendmaillogs, I donnot keep remailerlogs and I let > usenet do my mail2newslogging ... (They can ofcourse always supena > /dev/null, and then they get everything ..) Good. No reason to tempt the Big Brother types (and wannabes). BTW, people outside the remailer operator and user community seem to assume that logs ARE kept. I'm curious to know how often individuals, organizations, and maybe even governments make requests for your logs. Oh ... also, if you don't mind, can you uuencode your /dev/null and send it to me? > The "reordering pool" is > always a minimum of 5 messages so people can opt for how long their > message wil be 'stashed' at replay. (use 'Latency: +00:00' for zero latecy). Is that default reordering pool size the same for Type I and Type II messages? Perhaps someone can double-check my math on this. Assuming equally-sized messages that are otherwise indistinguishable, and a reordering pool size of five, then the odds of matching up an encrypted incoming message with an encrypted outgoing message are one in five. Thus a message chained through n remailers (each having a reordering pool size of 5) would be diffused among 5^n possible messages to thwart potential traffic analysis. What I'm unclear on is how setting a Latency: flag affects the diffusion of the output. Is that lattency IN ADDITION to the pool size of five, or does Latency: +00:00 bypass the reordering process altogether? My main concern is the security of chained reply blocks which are more vulnerable to attack than normal anonymous messages. A single anonymous message can only be traced BACKWARDS after it's been received. An anonymous reply, OTOH, could, theoretically, be "walked" through each remailer in the chain until the identity of the recipient was discovered. While that process would require convincing each remailer operator in the chain to cooperate, it's a lot more feasible than tracing a message backwards to its source. (Yes, I know about posting to a public message pool, such as a.a.m, but NG posting seems to be rather unreliable lately.) - ---- Finger for PGP public key (Key ID=19BE8B0D) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBNK2wqwbp0h8ZvosNAQFcpwf9GzP5jGSURrVZXu3omQXx9+de1aOHZ+Uk azgpHRZwStL86ztv1U5RcO7TRQ7gNgEd0+8V+z/wJei82f5zsQPCWVITjHBnUBKL sbGEFTtlkLfehXgF6oRk4xYzngxekYYFXm3UqZFKf/maQvMCRXbXSfTpb0CejpfQ 01PQGmXrShjdiYO8Uj+UoXzEEyAU383ssnJmsDBbnMvilM3aE5f0GXG/dx3QSvQi CfRzPFpcgfM4kojv8CxH5xfCvCWzKNgi8lnGuMjNwYApuGrYVtJSReq+OcAe9GeQ O2e+R9emHWiZHO16asfjnx6Eie7BylGrBRCLPWAAxPo16AtGjhJimw== =HRSR -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: The Sheriff Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 19:46:32 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: Location Escrow anyone ? In-Reply-To: <34AD5B24.520C3851@infomaniak.ch> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>it is a GSM network, however, I doubt that they try to know more than >>just the cell you're in... but you never know > >They can't really (the cell relay equipment is not up to the task). What about the new digital phones? Best wishes and fresh-roasted peanut taste, The Sheriff. -- ****** - --- As kinky as it sounds, finger me to see my PGP key and confirm the signature attached to this message. Either that, or head for pgp.ai.mit.edu on the WWW and search for my e-mail address. - --- Any and all SPAM will be met with immediate prosecutory efforts. Solicitations are NOT welcome here! - --- ----BEGIN INFLAMATORY BLOCK---- Version: 160 (IQ) Comments: Definitely one of their greatest misses. Reporter: "Do you know what Public Enemy is?" - --- Citizen: "Public enemy?" [long pause] "Probably somebody in office." -----END INFLAMATORY BLOCK----- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBNK4VhQBMw4+NR29ZAQHBPggAhJ2CnjBM0+5R6gHoWIOktua6OTjRQZK+ RUN6nRF3HezE1ZHrpIx6HO0fSCjyCCO0YUFu7VY66rTQ0FfwP3Czax1965xmKOpw QN7zvyvcBeiO4Pc2K9RhpwcskYlOFVUwwkoxFOEKEb9TL7urk4G3K8pTkx8ArW0+ x/rSQ3SKomzZKHJVOQq5IV8q+fFxGSSDElyKOnE0gSf//OuLpxHpUtMTIciMT6xd 8lGSFlFopONAOGixCFalbAJl1wE+LnYFuSRjCQVlNx18z0DsFWvtvDNBzZ353gfj 4Ma0w2XTQT8LEWoZfGceSHE+8gr+BVsWwLljf5Qmr7dpBxMCAOC4IQ== =2wNG -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: John Young Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 21:00:22 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: The Codeleakers Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980103125335.0073b628@pop.pipeline.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain http://www.mercury-rising.com/ Mercury Rising Art Jeffries (Bruce Willis), a disillusioned, outcast FBI agent, is the only one who can protect an orphaned nine-year-old autistic savant (Miko Hughes) when he becomes the target of assassins after inadvertently deciphering a top-secret government military code. Lt. Colonel Nicholas Kudrow (Alec Baldwin) is the National Security agent assigned to unveil the source of the code's leak. Preview 5fps - 4.9MB / 10fps - 8.1MB The film opens April 3, 1998. Website Coming Soon! From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Steve Schear Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 01:53:11 +0800 To: Kay Ping Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 1:35 PM +0000 1/3/98, Kay Ping wrote: >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > >>>ZURICH (December 28, 1997 4:12 p.m. EST http://www.nando.net) - Swiss >>>police have secretly tracked the whereabouts of mobile phone users via a >>>telephone company computer that records billions of movements going back >>>more than half a year, a Sunday newspaper reported. >> >>Don't be fooled that this is a swiss only problem. It's being done here in >>Amerika right now. > >The FCC has issued a ruling that will require all cellular telephone >carriers to provide location information on all 911 calls. By the year >2001, this location information is to provide 125 metres of accuracy 67% >of the time. The FCC may have ruled it, but its doubtful that the carriers can provide it. Doing better than than a cell sector will depend on many factors, including: specific technology (analog, GSM, CDMA, etc.), frequency and local propagation characteristics, especially multipath conditions. >From parallel discussions on the cryptography list: 800 MHz analog may be the most difficult. GSM perhaps can reach 500 meteres under ideal conditions (Andreas Bogk). IS-95/CDMA probably a bit better than GSM due to the very high data (chip) rate and spread spectrum's better multipath characteristics, although the system's multipath performance most improves communications not ranging (Phil Karn, Qualcomm). --Steve PGP mail preferred, see http://www.pgp.com and http://web.mit.edu/network/pgp.html RSA fingerprint: FE90 1A95 9DEA 8D61 812E CCA9 A44A FBA9 RSA key: http://keys.pgp.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=index&search=0x55C78B0D --------------------------------------------------------------------- Steve Schear | tel: (702) 658-2654 CEO | fax: (702) 658-2673 Lammar Laboratories | 7075 West Gowan Road | Suite 2148 | Las Vegas, NV 89129 | Internet: schear@lvdi.net --------------------------------------------------------------------- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 00:21:57 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: [Humor] Kennedy's New Legislation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Tim May writes: > And on a more serious note, one thing this affair shows is that once again, > the Kennedy clan (KC) lives by different rules. Whether it's Edward > Kennedy getting off in the Mary Jo Kopechne case, when any of us would have > likely been charged with a) drunk driving, b) leaving the scene, c) lying > in an investigation, or whether it's this very same Michael Kennedy getting > off with his underage babysitter.... Joe Kennedy was a common thug, no different from the Gambinos and the Genoveses. He made millions of dollars during the prohibition smuggling whiskey from Canada. He personally murdered numerous of fellow drug dealers and law enforcement officers (OK, he's not all bad :-) and dozens more were murdered on his orders. He then bought political offices for his kids, which is precisely what his colleagues - cocaine and heroin deales from Cali, medellin, etc cartels - get blamed for in Mexico and Colombia. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Brad Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 01:08:12 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Which side are you on, brother? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Watching the DOJ/MS fight is sort of like watching Iraq and Iran fight. Or Iraq and Kuwait. I have a hard time working up much enthusiasm for either side. What finally knocked me onto {gasp, choke} Gates' side, was the following: WSJ, p. A16, 12/23/97 Dole Backing Effort to Slow Microsoft Plan Washington - Former Senate Majority Leader Bob Dole has been sending letters and calling companies seeking their support in an expanding campaign to curb Microsoft Corp.'s entrance into new Internet businesses. Mr. Dole is part of a nascent but growing lobbying effort that goes far beyond issues raised by the Justice Department's antitrust case against Microsoft. ... Mr. Dole is representing several companies, including Microsoft computer rivals Netscape Communications Corp., and Sun Microsystems Corp., and Sabre Group Holdings Inc., a Dallas-based airlines reservation system that faces competition from Microsoft. ... In a recent letter to one company that has been approached for support, Mr. Dole wrote: "In the coming months, we will need to educate the public, the administration, and Congress about the dangers of a laissez-faire attitude toward Microsoft. I am personally convinced that if nothing is done now, it will become increasingly difficult to have fair competition in the years ahead. That is why we will need companies like yours to help finance and support our efforts. Mr. Dole, who was travelling in Bosnia yesterday with President Clinton, couldn't be reached for comment. ... Whenever both heads of the DemoPublican hydra agree, they're circling the wagons to protect their "vital interests" against the barbarians. I'm rooting for the barbarians, no matter how stinky they are. Brad From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Rabid Wombat Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 16:45:35 +0800 To: Lucky Green Subject: Re: Gun Nutz In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Sun, 4 Jan 1998, Lucky Green wrote: > On 3 Jan 1998, Ryan Lackey wrote: > > It would be interesting to fit one's house with speakers/noise generators/ > > flash generators/smoke/etc. to make it look as if one has an automatic > > cannon or a small army, in response to a raid. It would make a perfect > > distraction during which to leave :) > > [The following is a theoretical discusion. Do not try this at home]. > > What you really want is the ability to slow down the mobility of the raid > force while making your exit. In a prolonged siege, the attacker will > always win. A good way of slowing down the attacker after an initial > armed response is to deploy chemicals. A combination of Tabun and Mustard > Gas works best, but don't deploy them at the same time. Use the Tabun > first for maximium impact. Follow up with the Mustard Gas a few minutes > later. Setting this off in an inhabited area is sure to make you a popular hero. You'd be better off investing in a tunnel. Maybe Seymour Cray could use a job about now ... ;) (I never bought that car accident cover - he and Elvis are probably hangin' out in Tonga) -r.w. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Kay Ping Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 21:45:21 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: Location Escrow anyone ? Message-ID: <19980103133555.12753.qmail@nym.alias.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>ZURICH (December 28, 1997 4:12 p.m. EST http://www.nando.net) - Swiss >>police have secretly tracked the whereabouts of mobile phone users via a >>telephone company computer that records billions of movements going back >>more than half a year, a Sunday newspaper reported. > >Don't be fooled that this is a swiss only problem. It's being done here in >Amerika right now. The FCC has issued a ruling that will require all cellular telephone carriers to provide location information on all 911 calls. By the year 2001, this location information is to provide 125 metres of accuracy 67% of the time. Helping emergency services locate 911 callers is a great excuse for installing a cellular location system. Even better than the excuses they gave for eavesdropping-ready digital switches and limits on encryption. An accuracy of 125 meters seems quite impressive considering the facts that cellular channels are plagued by very long multipath dispersion and that a narrowband FM signal is much less than ideal for calculating delay. - -------------- Kay Ping nop 'til you drop -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: cp850 iQEQAwUBNK4a2hHPAso8Qp7tAQFI1wfRARzxzUTRWkuETjkWrz7Gh4StMEwhCZ6C Nzh2i2ymTq2/hMMdx7L8tuc2N5wISlBjzJtJGKnyQTHYJs6SMkvYLQa89H4v4MyH 9NJK6wSqx1OLEmgPwCoJWo8NUkH1jwPvhRfb+A/KE3raYazMd1fY+EgL/P3R216s j0F0RsPUFvMS3m+/j5rKFoatuG1Qc6b2p8QnQLxgxyePoEScEEcfxiCrGGH75YEF 5yiJMi11LraUnDyJtZ/9xVXAFAEjLM9IYyCapfleIEUNisu9Iu3R9V/FIBdEom3O uL7we6ETWSrYCFxdmrDq64q7wi1ygN/d1IvIFgNzSol/D9Y= =czyT -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Alexandre Maret Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 21:49:44 +0800 To: Remo Pini Subject: Re: Location Escrow anyone ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <34AE4047.212669B2@infomaniak.ch> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain The LPD (law on data protection) : http://193.5.216.40/ch/f/rs/235_1/index.html http://193.5.216.40/ch/f/rs/235_11/index.html (in french, italian, german only) The LPD states that you can get a copy of your database entry printed on paper, for a cost of max 300SFrs (about US$200), unless some special cases which have to be specified in the law. Since the debate is based on the fact that there is no legal text that allows swisscom to record these informations, there is no legal text that allow them not to communicate your informations on request. I'm not a jurist, but it may be an interesting path to follow. If they store the location of your phone every 3 secs, for 6 month, this means 5'241'600 locations. Printed on 70 lines/page paper, this means 74'880 A4 pages. Do you think they'd be happy to print and send you 74'880 pages for 300SFrs ? There is certain rules that allow them to postpone your request. However, they have to tell you before. Just wondering what would happen if 100'000 people asks for their last 6 month of positions... > >Swiss Federal Data Protection Commissioner: http://www.edsb.ch/ > >mostly empty... not a word about these 2 stories. you see how the > >swiss people are informed... > > Now this guy (Odilo Guntern) seems to have no clue about anything... Last month, I was thinking about launching a web site to inform swiss citizen about these issues. A kind of swiss EPIC. However, I can't do this alone. If anybody is interested by this idea, drop me a mail. > Wanna get more paranoid? Some companies log all Internet traffic of their > employees hmmm... no need to become more paranoid, enough is enough. > that passes through their proxy (which you have to use for anything to > work) for > some weeks (Weren't you the one chatting on #really-naughty-bits for more > than 1 > hour on Monday??). > And of course, phonenumbers you call in your company are logged, too. swisscom does it. They log all the internal/external mail of their employees... alex From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Lucky Green Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 22:14:07 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Remailer under NT [was:Re: your mail] In-Reply-To: <199801011858.KAA07272@sirius.infonex.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Thu, 1 Jan 1998, Mix wrote: > Okay, I'd like to set up a remailer - but I don't know where to start! > Unfortunatly it's going to have to run on an NT 4.0 box, so the winsock > remailer is out of the question, right? And I'm not in the US, so I > can't use the juno stuff -- so what (if anything) *can* I use? AT&T offers a free UNIX (korn shell) emulator for NT. Check ftp://ftp.research.att.com/ -- Lucky Green PGP v5 encrypted email preferred. "Tonga? Where the hell is Tonga? They have Cypherpunks there?" From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Remo Pini Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 23:09:43 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: eudora plugin Message-ID: <199801031502.QAA19999@linux.rpini.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain There would by chance be anyone around who would know where the Eudora Plugin Patch for PGP 5.5 (NT/95) can be downloaded (or aquired otherwise) outside USA? (http://www.pgp.com/products/eudora.cgi) Thanks, Remo ----------------------------------------------------- Fate favors the prepared mind. (from "Under Siege 3") ----------------------------------------------------- Remo Pini T: +41 1 350 28 88 Pini Computer Trading N: +41 79 216 15 51 http://www.rpini.com/ E: rp@rpini.com key: http://www.rpini.com/crypto/remopini.asc ----------------------------------------------------- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Ryan Lackey Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 05:17:54 +0800 To: "Brian B. Riley" Subject: Re: Guns: H&K, G3, 7.62 v 5.56 [Guns] (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I've only seen bolt action .50s fired. They're not *too* heavy, and from the amount of muzzle flash, noise, etc. it gave, I'd be as comfortable using it at 1000-1500 yards as I would a .308 at 600-1000 yards. Given proper concealment and the absence of anyone looking directly at you when you fire, that is. Professional sniping is a 2 man operation anyway -- against a target that can shoot back, you really want to have a spotter. >From what I can gather, the US military seems to agree with this strategy -- .308s for traditional sniping, .50 for anti-materiel, extreme long range, and countersniping. Attacking an incoming force which has its own snipers is mostly a job for the .50. And if I were in the field on the offense, I'd be attacking small enough groups that a few .50 rounds would be sufficient to kill them all or at least immobilize them. Or high enough value targets to make a more likely kill worth the higher risk during E&E. True, they mainly use bolt-action .50s -- if the semi auto version is really that much heavier, I'd probably go for the bolt action gun in the field and the semi at my home. For Tim May's situation, in a house, they know fairly well that he's firing from the house. Pretty much any weapon will give enough signature for them to zero in on it and fire. If he's lucky, and they just have carbines and 7.62 snipers, he could fire from one room, move to another, fire, etc. Or have enough cover to keep himself from getting hit. But at some point, they'll just bring in a real countersniper asset, like an automatic cannon, and any muzzle flash will be responded to with several hundred AP/explosive shells. Within the house, the weight of a .50 isn't that bad -- and the extra 500-1000 yards and AP capability might make a difference against a raid. At the very least, it'll get his place firebombed rather than shot up :) Forcing them to keep outside the 1500-2000 yard high danger range from a .50 (or forcing them to stay behind serious cover) would give him a chance to duck out and fight another day, too :) A .50 is also a bit more effective against helicopters containing special forces "monitoring" personnel who are there (but of course not actually there) in violation of the law. It would be interesting to fit one's house with speakers/noise generators/ flash generators/smoke/etc. to make it look as if one has an automatic cannon or a small army, in response to a raid. It would make a perfect distraction during which to leave :) I'd much rather write code, make money, and leave the country (not necessarily in that order) than worry about defending myself from a government which has shown time and time again it is willing to ignore the law, though. [ObCrypto: * Eternity DDS is coming along. The current almost-ready-for-announcement version is using Postgres95 for a backend, sigh. Design for the first production-demo system is progressing as well. * The Cypherpunks Archive project I was working on is also progressing. Unfortunately, my archive is kind of weird -- it's in MIT discuss format, and converting it into mbox is nontrivial, given the size of the file. After adding more memory to the system on which I'm editing the file, I think I have an mbox file which is just missing one field. I'm planning to index them with hypermail, then glimpse. On the cd, I'll put the original mbox file, either as a single massive file or broken up, depending on what people want, as well as a precomputed index and perhaps the web site version as well. The next step is to put all of the cypherpunks archives into Eternity DDS -- Postgres95 seems to puke on large data objects sometimes, so I'll need to fix that. Once I get the cypherpunks archive done, I'll work on some other lists. And then hopefully some people will buy CD-Rs so I can buy another 25gb of HDD or so :) * Financial people are pretty cool. I just got back from talking to some about the Eternity Service concept, and they were really excited. I really didn't expect non-(electronic finance) finance people to be interested in it right away. They even got more excited when the magic word "cryptography" was mentioned. Perhaps finance will fix the software industry. -- Ryan Lackey rdl@mit.edu http://mit.edu/rdl/ From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Brian B. Riley" Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 06:01:20 +0800 To: "Ryan Lackey" Subject: Re: Guns: H&K, G3, 7.62 v 5.56 [Guns] (fwd) Message-ID: <199801032150.QAA29689@mx02.together.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On 1/3/98 4:05 PM, Ryan Lackey (rdl@mit.edu) passed this wisdom: >I've only seen bolt action .50s fired. They're not *too* heavy, and >from the amount of muzzle flash, noise, etc. it gave, I'd be as >comfortableusing it at 1000-1500 yards as I would a .308 at >600-1000 yards. Given proper concealment and the absence of anyone >looking directly at you when you fire, that is. Professional >sniping is a 2 man operation anyway --against a target that can >shoot back, you really want to have a spotter. I finally remebered where I saw it. In Tom Clancy's non-fiction book "MARINE: A Guided Tour of a Marine Expeditionary Unit." On pages 75-77 (there is a good picture too) he details the history and developement as well as the uses of the "Barrett M82A1A .50-cal special-purpose sniper rifle." It is for all intents and purposes a Brownig M2 .50-cal machine gun barrel/receiver set o a newly designed spring recoil system to be fired from shoulder wit bipod. It is chambered for the NATO standard .50-cal/12.7mm ammunition. It was developed by Ronnie Barrett of Murfeesboro, Tennessee and further developement sponsored by the USG and was first deployed by the CIA with the Mujahadeen in Afgahnistan where they used it to make some Russian troops quite miserable from a long way off. The sucess of it in Afghanistan force the military to consider it. Nothing is said concerning other services but it has been adopted by the USMC Force Recon for use by a three man team. The gun is broken down into upper reciever, lower reciver, and scope and ammo. There may be .50-cal bolt actions out there that are one man carries, but the Barrett gun is a three man load. The gun is 57 inches long and weighs 32.5 pounds, unloaded with no scope. The primary mission of the gun is not man sniping, though I am sure it often has been and will be used in that role, but its main aim is to long range snipe and disable antennae, dishes, equipment, etc using the AP and API ammunition. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBNK6ybj7r4fUXwraZAQGSNgf/X6+K6j5lzj1odfzDM0HUfTnNzcc/RgSD OHHelk3Elb0jLDIX76KJsVOghDQ228QA+dFa+dEH+3YyjquIclKp4UBrfqw42Rfd Fv/HVinE9qLKse4PVY3Mjeqt8jHCGO01RHNATnrArDA6C2lVJIeE1tIDVGDVVtI2 bndGRnOexSXrFSm+5ux1GejWUYzUbLiQIOmfNSJMpzi8WwfQ/I3OLyFm5I6y9DR1 IiQZRs4RoqJ6f4caiZWz62/L6iivwKsOX6LCHlZAjz/6Ld+/o6ZtC0cjn/yWtUqL +3n/ZVydK+jGQ+rHopM4Eg1NGL5aRt+ANkKRDeTXohNlwfkCvI4xGA== =zI8W -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Brian B. Riley --> http://members.macconnect.com/~brianbr For PGP Keys "You need only reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go around repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in their struggle for independence." -- Charles M. Beard From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Alan Olsen Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 11:12:28 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Re: Microsoft In-Reply-To: <199801040125.CAA09309@basement.replay.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980103190024.038b0d80@clueserver.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 02:25 AM 1/4/98 +0100, Anonymous wrote: > >Windows is still fucking me up the ass! I'm bleeding to death here! Then get a copy of Linux and stop whining! Sheesh! --- | "That'll make it hot for them!" - Guy Grand | |"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmermann unites all| Disclaimer: | | mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!" | Ignore the man | |`finger -l alano@teleport.com` for PGP 2.6.2 key | behind the keyboard.| | http://www.ctrl-alt-del.com/~alan/ |alan@ctrl-alt-del.com| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "William H. Geiger III" Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 10:06:36 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Re: Microsoft In-Reply-To: <199801040125.CAA09309@basement.replay.com> Message-ID: <199801040209.VAA17936@users.invweb.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In <199801040125.CAA09309@basement.replay.com>, on 01/04/98 at 02:25 AM, Anonymous said: >Windows is still fucking me up the ass! I'm bleeding to death here! Well when you bend over and squeal like a pig what do you expect?!? - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a-sha1 Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBNK7taY9Co1n+aLhhAQHNiwQAxieliKHUE97aAZ+eZ0u64vtO4eZaaQyz vjdLpOksrSRuF9+m2PqOcwf4tjSHUHR5g6C90fjiGR8Cs2sFD6eWByCOGlR2r5t0 DAiZA7WryKf3V06mw6266F2VaeRIZ5HUrKaCXeGPtb2I8kGKwCuWqM6kGLnzt96S J1C+ddiKFsk= =Mllk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Anonymous Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 09:34:11 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Meganet's Unbreakable Virtual Matrix Encryption Takes the Market by St Message-ID: <400641a667f1ebd324c0c58d8ef866f9@anon.efga.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > Yes, the VME 98 is the same product that challenged Microsoft, > IBM, AT&T, Dell, Hewlett-Packard, Intel, America Online, > Netscape, etc. to break a VME encrypted file. All the great > computer minds in this country have had an opportunity to > dispel the bold claims of unbreakable encryption, yet none have. Why should Microsoft, IBM, AT&T, Dell, Hewlett-Packard, Intel, America Online, Netscape, "all the great computer minds in this country," etc. give a flying fuck? From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: ? the Platypus {aka David Formosa} Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 19:12:29 +0800 To: Paul Bradley Subject: Re: Freedom Forum report on the State of the First Amendment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On Thu, 1 Jan 1998, Paul Bradley wrote: [...] > > Welcome to the 20th Century, moron. > > You clearly have no comprehension of the principles of the free market > and the rights of businesses and individual to hire and fire whoever the > fuck they like for any reason whatsoever. My rights to swing my fists end at your noise. When ever you interact with other peaple your rights are tempered by there rights. Even Adam Smith recognised that its was gorverments dutie to redress the failing of the market. Also recall the free market model assumes that the word is full of totaly rational pepeale who have full knowige of the market. Any one who has been on this list knows that these peaple are somewhat uncommen. - -- Please excuse my spelling as I suffer from agraphia see the url in my header. Never trust a country with more peaple then sheep. ex-net.scum and proud You Say To People "Throw Off Your Chains" And They Make New Chains For Themselves? --Terry Pratchett. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBNK4GM6QK0ynCmdStAQFE7AP/Xgnf8xsGsovspmlzG8xRLCBPKAcAco1d hwUg752OPyjDksq6ZlM4eQNckRAwXWtEVethqJFXk/Wgyl0//f9L5zjSv/f1siAg uYUpElxwajL23W6AZjMVqhBqIn1daeI7PIlJy1iBfE2151fPuPQ8Ox6XHVbDjqZC KR/CjYA0uCY= =3e/G -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Carsten Hartwig Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 04:04:41 +0800 To: Brad Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980103205938.007c1100@mail.rhein-main.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched At 12:04 03.01.98 -0500, Brad wrote: > Dole Backing Effort to Slow Microsoft Plan Good call :-) It is a good plan indeed. Looking at the OS-market, one can speak of a monopoly of Microsoft. We know, what monopolies lead to. In terms of security, this is a frightening thought. We all have seen security breaches by the software, be it Windows itself or the Internet explorer. AND we know how long it takes Microsoft to adapt to new standards. I'm quite confident that the guys at MS still think, that a 56-bit DES key is impossible to break ;-) I think, this matter deserves further investigation. Carsten PGP Fingerprint: 70AB EA30 A3E0 655E A3FB 3B6B 76CE 4790 A8F9 DB7A Public Key available on: pgpkeys.mit.edu:11371 for carsten.hartwig@rhein-main.net carsten.hartwig@rhein-main.net carsten.hartwig@frankfurt.netsurf.de inferno.web@t-online.de werfrosch1@aol.com ICQ: 6167944 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Blanc Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 13:02:23 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: Time to Pay the Piper Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980103210255.006ddcf8@cnw.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Attila T. Hun wrote: > 1) when a true market monopoly exists, society _is_ > entitled to intervene. [. . .] > 2) why should you be surprised to hear this from me? > sure, I would prefer anarchy per se, but have > absolutely no faith that the vast majority would do > anything except rape, pillage, and plunder. [. . . .] ....................................................................... Well, between the "raping, pillaging, plundering" society of people who can't do better than to follow in the path which Billg prepares for them, and the "entitled" right of these same pillaging, plundering, sheeple to intervene in a "true market monopoly" which they themselves participated in creating, if only by default (intervening so they don't become exhausted from all that decision making - Unix, or Perl? Unix, or Wintel? This is too hard!!), and the attitude of Governors of the People's Interest who live to protects us from pillaging, plundering monopolists, all the while doing a little undercover raping of their own, all I can say is, "it's a Wonderful Society". And who wouldn't want to be a member of such a society, and who wouldn't want to intervene on the behalf of its citizens, none of whom have, apparently, yet "proved their worth" on this planet? (I'm surprised there's still so many of them, considering all the "good" guys trying to help them, and considering that they've been receiving "help" for their condition from everywhere - left and right, up and down, here and there - for many, many, years, now.) wheN are PEE-ple GOing towake UP. The Truth is Out There. .. Blanc From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Andy Dustman Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 11:10:50 +0800 To: Charlie Comsec Subject: Re: [RePol] Re: Remailer Logs (and Accountability) In-Reply-To: <19980103050003.766.qmail@nym.alias.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On 3 Jan 1998, Charlie Comsec wrote: > > The "reordering pool" is > > always a minimum of 5 messages so people can opt for how long their > > message wil be 'stashed' at replay. (use 'Latency: +00:00' for zero latecy). > > Is that default reordering pool size the same for Type I and Type II > messages? Type-II messages don't support latency yet (or not until fairly recently, I can't remember). Type-I remailers don't, by default, do any reordering, but reordering is not as useful for type-I messages (unless you remix). Cracker uses Mixmaster to reorder type-I messages. In addition to the pool size of 5, it also will remail a maximum of half the messages present, so in reality, the pool size floats up and down (but not lower than 5). > Perhaps someone can double-check my math on this. Assuming > equally-sized messages that are otherwise indistinguishable, and a > reordering pool size of five, then the odds of matching up an > encrypted incoming message with an encrypted outgoing message are > one in five. The odds are somewhat worse (for the attacker). In the case of the scenario above on cracker, the odds of any given message being cycled out of the pool (the pool is processed at six minute intervals) is generally 50% per cycle. Thus, there is a 75% chance that it has been sent by the end of the second cycle, and therefore a 25% (.5*.5) chance that it is still in the queue. The current RMS latency (from the remailer's own stats) is 19.5 minutes. You want to about double that to be sure that the message has really come out (and then, you still can't be sure), so that's about six cycles. If we are doing 5 per cycle, then the odds are 1 in 30. A very rough estimate. However, by my estimates, it's more like 12 messages per cycle (typically; it's variable for the reasons above), so that runs it up to 1 in 72 or so. (And of course, the remixing ensures that all messages are indistinquishable, whenever possible.) > What I'm unclear on is how setting a Latency: flag affects the > diffusion of the output. Is that lattency IN ADDITION to the pool > size of five, or does Latency: +00:00 bypass the reordering process > altogether? Latency occurs before reordering. Latency: +00:00 does nothing, BTW, and it's the default. Latency: +12:00r adds a 0-12 hour random delay before reordering. > My main concern is the security of chained reply blocks which are > more vulnerable to attack than normal anonymous messages. A single > anonymous message can only be traced BACKWARDS after it's been > received. Which is probably not so hard when you record all inter-remailer traffic, which is probably what happens somewhere. > An anonymous reply, OTOH, could, theoretically, be > "walked" through each remailer in the chain until the identity of > the recipient was discovered. While that process would require > convincing each remailer operator in the chain to cooperate, it's a > lot more feasible than tracing a message backwards to its source. > (Yes, I know about posting to a public message pool, such as a.a.m, > but NG posting seems to be rather unreliable lately.) Yep, that was part of the motivation for remixing: To keep eavesdroppers from intercepting partially-decrypted reply blocks. It also prevents traffic analysis based on the message section after the reply block. Reply blocks, of course, tend to get smaller after each hop, while the message getting delivered tends to get larger. Automatically encapsuling type-I messages in type-II format whenever the recipient supports it prevents this type of traffic analysis. Andy Dustman / Computational Center for Molecular Structure and Design For a great anti-spam procmail recipe, send me mail with subject "spam". Append "+spamsucks" to my username to ensure delivery. KeyID=0xC72F3F1D Encryption is too important to leave to the government. -- Bruce Schneier http://www.athens.net/~dustman mailto:andy@neptune.chem.uga.edu <}+++< -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: noconv iQEPAwUBNK77/BOPBZTHLz8dAQHlRwfPY/0uPyFXIgQxGAFt+kbNT85lZ9/Bf9B6 XIoRHARSbE0np2JB7kB0PdjXIxgyFoxcn9kuTyspOgFgF80zQjFR7RYSQC8QKXDV 1dnod7X4ynrvjmHbGtfOYDfgZSKUboTrwIPuehfUw3IDnDliVjDnnDy76f4uZdLc +Jn4JGRGPqVBQ3EX2d0yxDsIXY88geeGa4xgzSMSEaXWW+AoNw19mNJRA0AehiLg DZRDHKbCKYRtqt9aOn1h3qi3VrOqUjkO8awBkSQw84ycEqVaBgczBW/nBtNIpHq5 42pHjHpCc1riYY/2vuOXXD3juou1Th4By7JaZLwt+GkbZA== =r/Dk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 05:32:32 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Dimitry "The Hair" Vulis Message-ID: <199801032116.WAA06540@basement.replay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Poor Dimitry! He can dish it out, but not take it. Everyone should give Dimitry a call and tell him how much he is appreciated. Dr. Dimitry Vulis's home phone number: Vulis, Dimitri (DV1006) postmaster@DM.COM D&M Consulting Services Inc. 67-67 Burns Street Forest Hills, NY 11375 718-261-6839 (FAX) 212-725-0693 The 212 number is goes directly into his home 718 (Brooklyn) house, and is answered by a person. Talk with the devil himself! ---simvlad From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Alan Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 15:39:21 +0800 To: "Brian B. Riley" Subject: Re: Guns: H&K, G3, 7.62 v 5.56 [Guns] (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801032150.QAA29689@mx02.together.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980103231222.036b7b90@ctrl-alt-del.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 04:50 PM 1/3/98 -0500, Brian B. Riley wrote: > There may be .50-cal bolt actions out there that are one man >carries, but the Barrett gun is a three man load. The gun is 57 inches >long and weighs 32.5 pounds, unloaded with no scope. The primary >mission of the gun is not man sniping, though I am sure it often has >been and will be used in that role, but its main aim is to long range >snipe and disable antennae, dishes, equipment, etc using the AP and >API ammunition. When I lived in Alaska I knew someone who built such a thing for hunting bears. I never got to fire it, but it was supposed to have a kick like a mule. (Even with the shock absorbing stock.) The hardest part is getting the 50 cal ammo. (He had his Federal firearms license and was in the National Guard, so it was not too difficult for him.) Getting AP and other special ammo would be doubly difficult. (Non-specialty ammo could be reloaded as long as you could get molds and primer caps.) I guess it depends on your military and/or black market connections. --- | "That'll make it hot for them!" - Guy Grand | |"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmermann unites all| Disclaimer: | | mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!" | Ignore the man | |`finger -l alano@teleport.com` for PGP 2.6.2 key | behind the keyboard.| | http://www.ctrl-alt-del.com/~alan/ |alan@ctrl-alt-del.com| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Joab Jackson Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 12:42:05 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Baltimore City Paper editorial on Jim Bell Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980103232529.007b81f0@mailhost.charm.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain A Bridge Too Far? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- No doubt about it, Jim Bell disliked the government. As far as this Vancouver, Wash., resident was concerned, there isn't any problem with Congress that $60 worth of bullets couldn't solve. And he let his opinion be known in newsgroups, mailing lists, and, perhaps most notoriously, through an essay he wrote and promoted on the Internet called "Assassination Politics". But did Bell-who, federal authorities discovered, had an arsenal of deadly chemicals and firearms and the home addresses of more than 100 government workers-have a plan to murder public employees? "What was interesting is that the whole case was based on whether he'd be harmful in the future. He hadn't actually hurt anyone, but he was talking about some scary stuff," John Branton, a reporter who covered the Bell case for the southern Washington newspaper The Columbian (The Jim Bell Story), told me by phone. On Dec. 12, Bell, 39, was sentenced to 11 months in prison and three years of supervised probation after pleading guilty to using false Social Security numbers and setting a stink bomb off at a local Internal Revenue Service office. But authorities acknowledge those charges weren't what his arrest was really about. "We chose not to wait until he followed through on what we believe were plans to assassinate government employees," Jeffrey Gordon, an IRS inspector, told the Portland, Ore., daily The Oregonian. Gordon likened Bell to convicted Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh and Unabomber suspect Theodore Kaczynski. The federal government's court filing against Bell stated the belief that the defendant had a plan to "overthrow the U.S. government." Proof of his motivation, the government asserted, was found in Bell's Internet writings: "Bell has spelled out parts of his overall plan in his 'Assassination Politics' essay." Bell wasn't lacking for firepower. On April 1, 20 armed federal agents raided Bell's home, where he lived with his parents. According to U.S. News & World Report ("Terrorism's Next Wave") the feds found three semiautomatic assault rifles; a handgun; a copy of the book The Terrorist's Handbook; the home addresses of more than 100 government workers; and a garage full of potentially deadly chemicals. Authorities had long known that Bell was a spokesperson for a local libertarian militia and was involved in a so-called "common-law court" that planned "trials" of IRS employees. Given what the feds found at the house, in retrospect the raid seems prudent-as Leroy Loiselle of the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency told U.S. News, "You don't need nitric acid to keep aphids off your flowers." It's easy to forget the troubling fact that the government's initial reason for raiding Bell's residence was "Assassination Politics," which they found in Bell's car when the IRS seized it back in February. (Bell owed some $30,000 in back taxes.) Will others who make public their wrath for government and owe some taxes to Uncle Sam be paid similar visits? What's perhaps more troubling still is the way the feds held up Bell's essay as evidence of his violent intent. Reading "Assassination Politics" makes clear that it is no more a workable blueprint for overthrowing the government than Frank Herbert's Dune is a realistic plan for urban renewal. For about two years prior to Bell's arrest, "Assassination Politics" floated around the Internet. Bell, for instance, sent this essay out on the cypherpunks mailing list, where scenarios for the future, based on new technology and libertarian principles, are frequently discussed. None of the cypherpunks took his "plan" seriously then. The core of "Assassination Politics" is a plan to establish an anonymous electronic market wherein people could "wager" money on when public individuals, be they world leaders or corrupt tax collectors, will die. A person (say, for instance, an assassin) who correctly "predicts" the day of a death could anonymously collect the "winnings." Far from being a direct call to arms, Bell's essay is largely hypothetical, at least until encryption, traceless digital cash, and mass homicidal hatred of world leaders becomes widespread. Ugly yes; realistic no. "I've told Jim Bell on any number of occasions that it would never work," Robert East, a friend of Bell's, tells me by e-mail. "If Jim had properly titled this as a fictional piece of literature he'd have been far more accurate." In April, when the Jim Bell story broke, both The Columbian and Time Warner's Netly News portrayed Bell as a victim whose free-speech rights were violated. But as evidence against Bell piled up, the sympathy muted considerably. U.S. News' recent cover story on domestic terrorism, "Terrorism's Next Wave," opened with the Bell case. Perhaps Bell was prosecuted for what he wrote rather than what he might do. (Both friends and family have repeatedly said Bell, though a big talker, isn't much of a doer. "Jim is a harmless academic [n]erd," East insists. "I've known him for years and he's harmless.") Perhaps the IRS was spooked by little more than idle speculation of its demise. But the evidence seems to have dealt the feds the better hand, and lends credence to the idea that, for all the protest of free-speech advocates, words are not always separable from actions. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------- The Baltimore City Paper: http://www.citypaper.com City Paper's Cyberpunk column: http://www.citypaper.com/columns/framecyb.htm Archives: http://www.charm.net/~joabj/ joabj@charm.net 410.356.6274 -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 5.0 mQBtAzJFsfEAAAEDAOtSe/7TU8y0ZYBFXp8c6hxwzDIdbIsDtTsvKx2X v5S65Mdc3vCEFhMuwxceatO4T5IKgBFWJ2r7s9fFKtsAIS4vKCESi+wY7j 5rEZ6oYbaeWlj1yfwjAjg8SUxCjuji1QAFEbQeSm9hYiBKYWNrc29uIDxqb2 FiakBjaGFybS5uZXQ+ =ttEP -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Blanc Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 18:00:15 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: MS: "Setting the Record Straight" Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980104011838.006a2b20@cnw.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain For any of you who haven't already searched for & found this: http://www.microsoft.com/corpinfo/myths.htm .. Blanc From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: nobody@nsm.htp.org Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 10:15:50 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: Microsoft Message-ID: <19980104020914.26009.qmail@nsm.htp.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 02:25 98/01/04 +0100, Anonymous wrote: > Windows is still fucking me up the ass! I'm bleeding to death here! > > > For relief, see: http://www.enemy.org/ From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Anonymous Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 09:45:01 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Microsoft Message-ID: <199801040125.CAA09309@basement.replay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Windows is still fucking me up the ass! I'm bleeding to death here! From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Lucky Green Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 10:26:56 +0800 To: Ryan Lackey Subject: Re: Guns: H&K, G3, 7.62 v 5.56 [Guns] (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On 3 Jan 1998, Ryan Lackey wrote: > It would be interesting to fit one's house with speakers/noise generators/ > flash generators/smoke/etc. to make it look as if one has an automatic > cannon or a small army, in response to a raid. It would make a perfect > distraction during which to leave :) [The following is a theoretical discusion. Do not try this at home]. What you really want is the ability to slow down the mobility of the raid force while making your exit. In a prolonged siege, the attacker will always win. A good way of slowing down the attacker after an initial armed response is to deploy chemicals. A combination of Tabun and Mustard Gas works best, but don't deploy them at the same time. Use the Tabun first for maximium impact. Follow up with the Mustard Gas a few minutes later. The underground irrigation systems common on California properties are ideal means of gas deployment. You should be able to retrofit the system for under $500. Assuming you already have the gas. Of course you need to make sure to keep a chem suit at home. After you make your exit, you can clean out the next with a previously installed fuel/air explosive. -- Lucky Green PGP v5 encrypted email preferred. "Tonga? Where the hell is Tonga? They have Cypherpunks there?" From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Kay Ping Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 16:48:42 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: Location Escrow anyone ? Message-ID: <19980104083939.14929.qmail@nym.alias.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > The FCC may have ruled it, but its doubtful that the carriers can provide > it. Doing better than than a cell sector will depend on many factors, > including: specific technology (analog, GSM, CDMA, etc.), frequency and > local propagation characteristics, especially multipath conditions. The FCC ruling is a result of lobbying by a company that has actually built such a location device. The requirements are tailored to the capabilities of their device and they probably expect to automatically win the contracts. I don't remember their name but the devices need to be installed in about one out of 3 cellular base stations. I am only guessing now, but it's not unlikely that they have been assisted in their lobbying efforts by certain three-letter-acronym agencies. They knew that the goverment would look favorably on a device to track people and would eagerly buy their excuse of 911 caller location. - ----------------- Kay Ping nop 'til you drop finger kping@nym.alias.net for key DF 6D 91 18 A6 59 41 96 - 89 01 69 B7 9D0 4 AE 53 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: cp850 iQEQAwUBNK8o/BHPAso8Qp7tAQFGfgfRAQUYARi6dQYIWyehqBhXMhyvgfYkWN2X rDDkE/bCr4yfvuYA5e/H3kVhfEh9TXT2m4+F6NmWPmy5WM6s5yuDR3I5t/3EDH8T uHV/EfkhjiE0HiQgTLB19VGFRXoi9eLlnBaxBcZZK8dknJ/T7rFlthvpUeL3crVl yD0Swl7lYgeyuG2HLgOLc5v+ej1tDdI27KIjoBj/dCDSoN6gtzj/linCLbjY8NZZ akY3cQbk3QVrXfJamX+n6X3cwKkI20phrM5DBjh1pdhod6nLvRDPiEkT3prqRTx7 gjrJip/pzCKABUmkWSigXFgQARvkPW6ZqSCnoCSivzgYFxE= =UcO3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 02:07:01 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: My last comment (for now) on rifles Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 11:12 PM -0800 1/3/98, Alan wrote: >When I lived in Alaska I knew someone who built such a thing for hunting >bears. I never got to fire it, but it was supposed to have a kick like a >mule. (Even with the shock absorbing stock.) > >The hardest part is getting the 50 cal ammo. (He had his Federal firearms >license and was in the National Guard, so it was not too difficult for >him.) Getting AP and other special ammo would be doubly difficult. >(Non-specialty ammo could be reloaded as long as you could get molds and >primer caps.) > >I guess it depends on your military and/or black market connections. You must be thinking of some other (larger) caliber, as .50 BMG is readily available. At my local gun shop, $3 a round. (It may be cheaper elsewhere.) A gun shop over in Silicon Valley was selling a belt-fed, semi-automatic .50 BMG for about $7K, if I recall the ad correctly. They were selling shots with it for $5 a shot, and advertising it as "Diane Feinstein's Worst Nightmare." .50 caliber is the largest readily available caliber (Uncle has limited larger calibers only for His own use, not for the use of the Rabble.) And there are several .50 BMG rifles readily for sale, mostly ranging from $3000 to $6000. The Barrett is the most commonly talked about version. Personally, I can't see the point of a .50, even for hunting bear. (Not that I would _want_ to hunt bears, as I find bears preferable to most humans, by far.) A .300 Winchester Magnum, a .375 H&H, or a .338 Lapua Magnum should be more than enough, and a whole lot cheaper than a Barrett or somesuch. The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Robert Hettinga Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 04:35:45 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: BOOK: Forthcoming - J Gray, _Hayek on Liberty 3rd edition_ Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain --- begin forwarded text Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 13:34:30 EST Reply-To: Hayek Related Research Sender: Hayek Related Research From: Gregransom Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: BOOK: Forthcoming - J Gray, _Hayek on Liberty 3rd edition_ To: HAYEK-L@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU >> Hayek Web << Routledge -- Hayek's publisher in England and on the Continent of Europe, on the Web at: http://www.routledge.com/ >From the Routledge Web site: "_Hayek on Liberty Third Edition_ John Gray, Jesus College, University of Oxford Published by Routledge Pb ISBN/ISSN: 0-415-17315-9 >From the previous edition: ... "In Hayek on Liberty John Gray treats Hayek primarily as a philosopher. His book is analytical, not hagiographical, and almost certainly the best book on the subject.' - Samuel Brittan, Financial Times 'The most generally accessible book on Hayek so far.' - Anthony Quinton, Times Higher Education Supplement ... Hayek's achievements in social and political philosophy are increasingly receiving full recognition. _Hayek on Liberty 3rd Edition_ is a concise yet exhaustive and provoking study of this classic liberal philosopher which examines the structure and impact of his system of ideas and locates his position within Western philosophy. Not available since the 1980s this up-dated 3rd edition contains a postscript which assesses how far the historical developments of the last ten years can be deployed in a critique of Hayek's thought. This book will contribute to a much needed wider debate on the future of conservatism. 192 pages Dimensions: 5 1/2 x 8 1/2 inches; 216 x 138 mm Status: Coming Soon" Hayek on the Web is a regular feature of the Hayek-L list. --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/ Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Brian B. Riley" Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 23:54:43 +0800 To: "Al KC2PB" Subject: Fwd: Yup Message-ID: <199801041548.KAA21685@mx02.together.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain ---------------- Begin Forwarded Message ---------------- Date: 01/03 10:00 AM Received: 01/04 10:37 AM From: Bruce Alan Johnson, baj@sover.net To: Brian B. Riley, brianbr@together.net MISTAKEN IDENTITY: Police in Bangkok, Thailand, arrested an American tourist who climbed repair scaffolding to the top of Wat Arun (Temple of the Dawn) and refused to come down. After 10 hours, the man was subdued by police and turned over to the American Embassy. He identified himself as God, but officials determined he was Brandon Simcock, 27, an employee of Microsoft. (Bangkok Post) ..."Termination Notice. Reason for Termination: Impersonating CEO." ----------------- End Forwarded Message ----------------- Brian B. Riley --> http://members.macconnect.com/~brianbr For PGP Keys "Journeys are about discovery, about lives touching briefly and then parting, except on the Internet, where distant lives can intertwine, and where a journey of discovery never has to end." -- Jim Heid From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Bill Stewart Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 04:16:27 +0800 To: remailer-operators@anon.lcs.mit.edu Subject: PGP-out-only vs. hashcash aware remailers? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980104120940.00722cdc@popd.ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 05:40 PM 12/30/1997 -0400, Privacy Admin wrote: >Since I've switched to type-I pgponly remailer I haven't had a problem >with spammers. I've been wondering if hashcash makes sense for remailers, >or [only] for mail2news gateways. > >I guess I am looking for any means of controlling spammers using remailers >and mail2news gateways. Hashcash won't help mail2news, except by discouraging dumb spammers, because news spam only needs a few messages. PGP-only input will cut down on most spammers, though you'll still get a few, especially if they're spamming mailing lists (which makes the encryption both worth the effort and useful for safety.) If you modify your remailer to only _output_ PGP-encrypted messages, you get hashcash-equivalence, and cut abuse substantially. The cost is limiting recipients to pgp users (plus known exceptions), but it's tough to spam people when you need to look up their PGP key and encrypt to it (at least you'll only get spams for high-tech stuff), and it's tougher for random abusers to abuse people since most targets don't have PGP keys, and a mailbox full of PGP junk is less annoying to most people than a mailbox full of human-readable hate mail. In particular, it's harder to send death threats to politicians if they don't have published PGP keys. Is this a feature that makes sense? PGP-out-only remailers aren't as useful for anonymous tip lines (unless the tip line has a PGP address.) They're not as useful for inviting new people into your conspiracy, though they're fine for conspiring with people whose keys you already know (and they can be unlisted keys only used for the conspiracy.) If the Bank of Caribbean Cash Importers is interested in taking anonymous clients who contact them through remailers, they've probably got a PGP key handy to send to anyway. They're not transparently useful for mail2news, but the remailer could make exceptions for known mail2news sites, or could ignore the problem, which is fine for posting to alt.anonymous.messages, though not for posting to alt.whistleblowers. How would you implement it? Obviously you'd need to allow some unencrypted lines at the beginning, at least if they have remailer syntax( ::, ##, mail headers, etc.). Do you cut all lines after the "-----END PGP"? My first impression was yes, but after reading the Freedom Remailer source, it looks like this might kill messages using encrypted reply blocks, so maybe not. Detecting the PGP itself can be crude ("----- BEGIN PGP ENCRYPTED"...) or can be a bit fancier (make sure the lines are all the right length and limited to the correct character set), or much fancier (de-armor and look for PGP blocks). Even the fancy approaches can be spoofed, since you can't go very deep into the headers without the right keys, so a couple lines of real PGP material could be included, leaving possibilities like :: Request-Remailing-To: Your Mama ## Subject: My Guitar Wants to Kill Your Mama -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 Comment: PGP allows arbitrary comments, so Decrypt This! hQCMAynIuJ1VakpnAQP+MWng0I6TnDf/U83KCttjYZQSnPQjS59rw+M+iSmTGLIs btqW5hn1HXheSb8GNifAWz2rqgdH3GqjZ5rRBDF5tZfQfV5kNNYE1XpT/CMgAsDh 3IkaeOumDKXON+8acl5X7NToSjml+mkxkF7kE9u5oxCEXErDjS3k2wOtv0krNfSk HeyChelseaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaBWAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA MyGuitarWantsToKillYourMamaBWAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA MyGuitarWantsToKillYourMamaBWAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA MyGuitarWantsToKillYourMamaBWAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA -----END PGP MESSAGE----- and your little dog, too! But at least it's a start. Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 07:51:47 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: rant on the morality of confidentiality Message-ID: <199801042341.PAA26750@netcom5.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I posted this to PM's mailing list, but he apparently zapped it without comment. so here it goes to a less authoritarian forum. context: posters to his list were remarking on the recent declassification of information in Britain that suggested they had discovered the key aspects of RSA before it was discovered in the open literature by Diffie & Hellman etc. ------- Forwarded Message To: cryptography@c2.net Subject: a rant on the morality of confidentiality scientists who agree to government secrecy to develop their inventions are agreeing to a lot more than mere secrecy. they are committing to a paradigm that is at odds with science itself, which only advances through the open literature. furthermore, they are giving away their power, so to speak, to governments that do not have the same motives they do. essentially they are working for a war machine, or a suppression machine. how can they be sure their inventions will not be used for dark purposes? imho, by not working within a system that poses that risk. that no such system seems to exist is irrelevant. a truly responsible scientist would help create one and wouldn't work without one. I think the scientists who worked on the atom bomb and today within the NSA are working under a key false assumption. "if we don't develop it, the enemy will, and he will use it against us". but perhaps if scientists around the world united against the government warmongers that have been manipulating them for many generations, particularly within the 20th century with grotesque results, perhaps a different story would emerge. yet even Einstein himself urged our government to "develop a weapon of mass destruction before the Joneses do". how smart is that? perhaps scientifically clever, but morally, socially, and spiritually vacuous. it is a feeble mind in my opinion who takes refuge in the saying that "technology is neutral". perhaps so, but not the humans who use and *develop* it, and the latter are particularly responsible for the former. how smart were those nuclear weapons scientists, anyway, such as Feynmann? imho they agreed to the terms of their own manipulation, and failed to question their basic motives and intents and of those who paid them. I believe those that work within the NSA and other secret agencies are betraying the principles of science under the guise of protecting humanity. I believe they have the power to change this system, but they have reneged on their responsibility as human beings. Wayner covers the simplistic issues in his piece for the NYT, but they key issues at stake are far deeper and have never even been recognized by some of the so-called greatest minds of our century. so I view with distaste, to say the lest, the scientists who later try to break the secrecy and come out in the open merely so that they can have credit for something that was classified they claim to deserve. they deserve credit only for supporting and participating in a vast and sinister system of scientific manipulation for dark and inhumanitarian purposes. Chomsky is one of the few scientists of our time who has the brilliance to recognize the ulterior side of the government we support. surprise! he is largely ignored or even blacklisted by his morally- and socially- handicapped colleages who believe it is not their place to question the status quo, but only to fit into it or advance through it. all those scientists who have ever complained about the lack of funding for your branch, or who have fought with each other over the scraps handed to you like dogs-- do you have any concept of how much tax money is put into military research? how much is funnelled into the NSA? this is money that is funded by the public for public welfare-- is it really being used for that? NSA and other secret agencies have become vast parasites feeding on public dollars that have no accountability, and largely because scientists, who should lead the pack, instead lack the intelligence to recognize it or the courage to challenge it. these are my thoughts as I read how the NSA's Inman pops up to say that the credit for RSA is the NSA's, or a British agency does the same. secrecy is directly contradictory to the principles upon which this country is founded. and imho it is becoming a large source of its ongoing demise. quite simply, the scientists are fiddling while Democracy burns. ------- End of Forwarded Message From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Secret Squirrel Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 02:53:27 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: Microsoft Message-ID: <186eae90d0afdcd691326a13f1ad8b66@squirrel> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >At 02:25 AM 1/4/98 +0100, Anonymous wrote: >> >>Windows is still fucking me up the ass! I'm bleeding to death here! > >Then get a copy of Linux and stop whining! > >Sheesh! Usually when somebody says something like that they're refering more to Microsoft indirectly borking them. For instance, people send around MS Turd documents. You have to buy MS Turd. Some Windows lamers send out HTML email. Many (most?) are clueless on USENET. Many (most?) don't like to type at all, and choke and die when they get into an environment where they have to. People walk into computer labs and are stuck with the pathetic environment that is Windows. And this doesn't even count the "Everyone is running Windows" and "Everything is da web" folks. It wouldn't be so bad if there was full source to everything and it didn't cost an arm and a leg, or if it didn't suck. But there isn't, it does, and that's putting it mildly. I can hear the cries of "You're anti-business!" and "You're just a UNIX weenie!" already. I just remember back when the average net user had somewhat of a clue. When the network went "to the masses" and people went out of their way to make it point and click the drooling lemmings were attracted to it. And of course where the drooling lemmings go the people who take advantage of the drooling lemmings follow, e.g. spammers. My attitude about this pretty much went down the toilet when I was called a "UNIX weenie" because I suggested that a Windows user deliver his own mail while the ISP's SMTP server was down. Then of course the Windows flamer decided to start denouncing the very notion of RFCs, then started rambling about POP3 and IMAP. And of course I implied "that we all run UNIX" because I used the word "daemon" -- yeah, apparently Windows is so bad that this user didn't even know it *could* run background processes. No, I wasn't the original writer, but I see where the original author was coming from...I think. Yes, I use Linux. Yes, I remember MAKE.MONEY.FAST but it was nothing like the spam we get today and was few and far between. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Lucky Green Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 23:32:35 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Smartcard readers Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Several people inquired about obtaining one of the universal smartcard readers the Cypherpunks Smartcard Developer Association built in the past. As our knowledge about commercial readers increased, we were able to add support for commercial readers from several manufacturers such as Gemplus, Schlumberger, and Philips. Therefore, there is no need to for another production run of our own reader. If you wonder which reader to buy, I like the Gemplus best. If you have a reader we don't already support, send me a sample and we'll add it. Our smartcard software is at https://www.cypherpunks.to/scard/ Have fun, -- Lucky Green PGP v5 encrypted email preferred. "Tonga? Where the hell is Tonga? They have Cypherpunks there?" From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: root Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 07:31:38 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com Subject: index.html Message-ID: <199801042353.RAA20982@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Welcome to the Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer. This mailing list is sponsored by The Armadillo Group and other indipendant operators. The purpose of this mailing list is to explore the frontier of cryptography, civil liberty, economics, and related issues. This is a very high traffic mailing list. Several members of the mailing list are involved in various types of events through the year. Participation by members of the list does not construe any support or affilliation with the mailing list. Contact the author of all works obtained through the remailer network. They retain original rights. Please let others know about this mailing list, the more the merrier! To subscribe to the CDR you should contact the individual operators as conditions at each remailer site may be quite different. To subscribe through SSZ you should send a note to list@ssz.com or send an email to majordomo@ssz.com with 'subscribe cypherpunks email_address' in the body. If you have questions or problems contact list@ssz.com There may be local groups of members who have regular (or not) meetings in order to discuss the various issues and projects appropriate to their individual membership. These groups generaly announce their meetings via the CDR. Please feel free to make appropriate announcements of activity in your area. Austin Cypherpunks From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 10:36:34 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Why some people are making nerve gases and such to defendthemselves In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 6:19 PM -0800 1/3/98, Lucky Green wrote: >What you really want is the ability to slow down the mobility of the raid >force while making your exit. In a prolonged siege, the attacker will >always win. A good way of slowing down the attacker after an initial >armed response is to deploy chemicals. A combination of Tabun and Mustard >Gas works best, but don't deploy them at the same time. Use the Tabun >first for maximium impact. Follow up with the Mustard Gas a few minutes >later. The underground irrigation systems common on California properties >are ideal means of gas deployment. You should be able to retrofit the >system for under $500. Assuming you already have the gas. Of course you >need to make sure to keep a chem suit at home. In an age where it is accepted (and unpunished) behavior for the black-clad ninja warriors to shoot through pregnant women, to burn children to death in the name of publicity for the BATF, to raid the home of a woman who refused to answer questions of the State psychiatric police, to shoot to death a retired doctor who the raiders accidentally hit, and on and on, other measures are needed. (In none of these cases have the guilty parties been punished. If the State will not restrain itself, other measures will be needed.) This may well be why militias and survivalist groups are so actively developing chemical and biological agents. (I hear that even some of the dopers in the hills have gotten interested in Sarin release systems. Hoo boy!) Sad, but maybe one has to fight fire with fire. If a hundred SWAT stormtroopers surround a compound and prepare to burn it down, releasing the countermeasures may be needed. In fact, leaking (no pun intended) word that a home has CBW deadman switches may make the ninjas a bit less trigger-happy. --Tim May, whose house is _not_ booby-trapped with Sarin, or Tabun, or anything else, but who will defend to his death his right to talk as he wishes about such things. The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Mix Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 12:00:58 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: best body armor for cypherpunks [serious] Message-ID: <199801050344.TAA10130@sirius.infonex.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain What is, in your opinion, the best (price and performance-wise) body armor for cypherpunks? From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 11:57:24 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com Subject: Re: .50 ammo In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980103231222.036b7b90@ctrl-alt-del.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 7:24 PM -0800 1/4/98, Igor Chudov @ home wrote: >Alan wrote: >> At 04:50 PM 1/3/98 -0500, Brian B. Riley wrote: >> The hardest part is getting the 50 cal ammo. (He had his Federal firearms >> license and was in the National Guard, so it was not too difficult for >> him.) Getting AP and other special ammo would be doubly difficult. >> (Non-specialty ammo could be reloaded as long as you could get molds and >> primer caps.) >> >> I guess it depends on your military and/or black market connections. > >I have seen what appeared to be .50 ammo (probably not AP) in gun stores. Armor-piercing ammo, the common kind, is just steel-core ammo. This is readily available in most calibers, esp. military calibers. (A less common kind is "KTW" handgun ammo, which is under some recent restrictions. And even less common, and almost certainly unavailable to the proles, are "sabot" rounds, some with tungsten cores.) Importation of steel-core ammo is under various restrictions. Klinton recently blocked import of a lot of foreign 7.62x39 steel core ammo, on nebulous grounds that they represented a threat to the ruling elite and their police bodyguards. But it's still widely available. Check the gun shows. (There is little need for this, for even folks like us. We are not likely to want to disable fleeing vehicles, etc. And even conventional lead-core rifle rounds will cut through body armor easily, which is all I care about.) --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 11:34:51 +0800 To: alan@clueserver.org (Alan) Subject: .50 ammo In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980103231222.036b7b90@ctrl-alt-del.com> Message-ID: <199801050324.VAA21481@manifold.algebra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Alan wrote: > At 04:50 PM 1/3/98 -0500, Brian B. Riley wrote: > The hardest part is getting the 50 cal ammo. (He had his Federal firearms > license and was in the National Guard, so it was not too difficult for > him.) Getting AP and other special ammo would be doubly difficult. > (Non-specialty ammo could be reloaded as long as you could get molds and > primer caps.) > > I guess it depends on your military and/or black market connections. I have seen what appeared to be .50 ammo (probably not AP) in gun stores. - Igor. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 14:54:50 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality In-Reply-To: <199801042341.PAA26750@netcom5.netcom.com> Message-ID: <9RcTie5w165w@bwalk.dm.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain "Vladimir Z. Nuri" writes: > I posted this to PM's mailing list, but he apparently zapped it > without comment. I'm shocked. I thought the purpose of the perry-moderated list was to let him reject submissions AND send perrygrams, not just silenty drop them on the floor! During the Gilmore/C2net "moderation experiment", Sandy Sandfart not only silently deleted the submissions he didn't like (he lied when he claimed that everything he rejects is forwarded to the rejects list), he also had C2Net lawyers threatening several people whose articles were rejected, including myself and Timmy May. Perry can learn a lot from Sandy Sandfart. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Alan Olsen Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 15:13:25 +0800 To: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov) Subject: Re: .50 ammo In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980103231222.036b7b90@ctrl-alt-del.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980104222937.03ab0100@clueserver.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 09:24 PM 1/4/98 -0600, Igor Chudov @ home wrote: >Alan wrote: >> At 04:50 PM 1/3/98 -0500, Brian B. Riley wrote: >> The hardest part is getting the 50 cal ammo. (He had his Federal firearms >> license and was in the National Guard, so it was not too difficult for >> him.) Getting AP and other special ammo would be doubly difficult. >> (Non-specialty ammo could be reloaded as long as you could get molds and >> primer caps.) >> >> I guess it depends on your military and/or black market connections. > >I have seen what appeared to be .50 ammo (probably not AP) in gun stores. I am surprised, but I am sure you are correct. It has been quite a while since I have spent time in gun shops. (My expenditures on ammo is limited to smaller calibers. I tend not to look at other things because I cannot afford what I want.) --- | "That'll make it hot for them!" - Guy Grand | |"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmermann unites all| Disclaimer: | | mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!" | Ignore the man | |`finger -l alano@teleport.com` for PGP 2.6.2 key | behind the keyboard.| | http://www.ctrl-alt-del.com/~alan/ |alan@ctrl-alt-del.com| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 12:40:51 +0800 To: cypherpunks@www.video-collage.com Subject: Re: .50 ammo In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801050436.WAA21960@manifold.algebra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Tim May wrote: > Armor-piercing ammo, the common kind, is just steel-core ammo. This is > readily available in most calibers, esp. military calibers. (A less common > kind is "KTW" handgun ammo, which is under some recent restrictions. And > even less common, and almost certainly unavailable to the proles, are > "sabot" rounds, some with tungsten cores.) By the way, I keep hearing about these sabot rounds but do not know what they actually are. Could someone please explain. Thank you. > (There is little need for this, for even folks like us. We are not likely > to want to disable fleeing vehicles, etc. And even conventional lead-core > rifle rounds will cut through body armor easily, which is all I care about.) Many people underestimate the power of most rifles. - Igor. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Nobuki Nakatuji" Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 15:18:48 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Is FEAL developed by NTT safe? Message-ID: <19980105070034.3946.qmail@hotmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Is FEAL developed by NTT safe? Where isn't safe if it is here because it isn't safe? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 12:52:47 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: best body armor for cypherpunks [serious] (fwd) Message-ID: <199801050513.XAA22310@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 19:44:42 -0800 (PST) > From: Mix > Subject: best body armor for cypherpunks [serious] > What is, in your opinion, the best (price and performance-wise) > body armor for cypherpunks? Not being in the vicinity of the fan... (I couldn't resist) ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Alan Olsen Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 15:47:57 +0800 To: "Nobuki Nakatuji" Subject: Re: Is FEAL developed by NTT safe? In-Reply-To: <19980105070034.3946.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980104232746.00b28760@clueserver.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 11:00 PM 1/4/98 PST, Nobuki Nakatuji wrote: > >Is FEAL developed by NTT safe? Where isn't safe if it is here because it >isn't safe? >From what I have read, FEAL is the punching bag of the cryptographic community. It has been broken many times by many people at many different number of rounds. (It seems to be the one that many cryptanalists have cut their teeth on.) The history of FEAL does not inspire a whole lot of confidence, no matter who is selling it. --- | "That'll make it hot for them!" - Guy Grand | |"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmermann unites all| Disclaimer: | | mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!" | Ignore the man | |`finger -l alano@teleport.com` for PGP 2.6.2 key | behind the keyboard.| | http://www.ctrl-alt-del.com/~alan/ |alan@ctrl-alt-del.com| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Alan Olsen Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 15:33:09 +0800 To: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov) Subject: Re: .50 ammo In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980104232928.0366bdc0@clueserver.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 10:36 PM 1/4/98 -0600, Igor Chudov @ home wrote: >By the way, I keep hearing about these sabot rounds but do not know >what they actually are. Could someone please explain. Thank you. They are a wooden round made by the dutch for firing into milling machines. --- | "That'll make it hot for them!" - Guy Grand | |"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmermann unites all| Disclaimer: | | mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!" | Ignore the man | |`finger -l alano@teleport.com` for PGP 2.6.2 key | behind the keyboard.| | http://www.ctrl-alt-del.com/~alan/ |alan@ctrl-alt-del.com| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 15:42:28 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Sabots In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 8:36 PM -0800 1/4/98, Igor Chudov @ home wrote: >Tim May wrote: >> Armor-piercing ammo, the common kind, is just steel-core ammo. This is >> readily available in most calibers, esp. military calibers. (A less common >> kind is "KTW" handgun ammo, which is under some recent restrictions. And >> even less common, and almost certainly unavailable to the proles, are >> "sabot" rounds, some with tungsten cores.) > >By the way, I keep hearing about these sabot rounds but do not know >what they actually are. Could someone please explain. Thank you. Typically a dense projectile inside an outer projectile. (Sabot in French means "shoe," the origin of course of "saboteur.") The outer projectile can fall away, leaving the inner projectile to continue. The physics of this is explained in ballistics sources. This allows smaller projectiles to be launched out of larger bores. Thus, high density projectiles can be launched out of .50 BMG barrels. Or large tank barrels (as in the M-1 Abrams tank) can fire sabot projectiles. (For example, smaller projectiles made of depleted uranium, which punch through tank armor and then become liquid and incendiary on the inside of the tank, killing all occupants in milliseconds.) The term "sabot" is sometimes used interchangeably with "slug," espeically with respect to shotguns. It is also possible to use sabots to build a "two-stage" bullet, with a smaller round firing from inside a sabot. 6000 fps velocities have been reported. Or so I read. As always, using the Web is the way to get such answers quickly. A DejaNews search on "rec.guns sabot" will turn up many interesting threads. Especially the older data base. >> (There is little need for this, for even folks like us. We are not likely >> to want to disable fleeing vehicles, etc. And even conventional lead-core >> rifle rounds will cut through body armor easily, which is all I care about.) > >Many people underestimate the power of most rifles. Yep. Every rifle caliber other than .22 LR will penetrate ballistic vests. Even with a vest rated to stop a .44 Magnum round, from a handgun, the extra speed from a 16-inch carbine barrel is enough to defeat these vests. (I have a handy little carbine, the Winchester Trapper, in .44 Magnum. Not as much punch as an AR-15, but mighty handy.) More and more "home invaders" (*) are wearing Kevlar body armor, so bear this in mind. (* Home invaders are usually gangs of several thieves who enter a home in force, sometimes by kidnapping the owner and forcing him to let them in, sometimes just by breaking down the doors. They tend to terrorize the occupants, tie them up, rape the women, and then, increasingly, kill all the occupants so as to leave no witnesses. And for "kicks." Of course, liberals and gun grabbers would have us believe that it is not proper for homeowners to have guns to defend themselves, that it is for the police to respond to burglaries. People who think this way are delusional. And if they go beyond their delusions and attempt to disarm homeowners forcibly, they ought to be taken out and shot.) --Tim May --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 15:51:22 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: Is FEAL developed by NTT safe? In-Reply-To: <19980105070034.3946.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 11:00 PM -0800 1/4/98, Nobuki Nakatuji wrote: >Is FEAL developed by NTT safe? Where isn't safe if it is here because it >isn't safe? > FEAL am not safe if not safe here. (Try using a search engine or Schneier, Nobuki Nakatuji, to answer these stupid little Zen koans you keep hitting us with.) --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: lcs Mixmaster Remailer Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 12:03:34 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: Microsoft Message-ID: <19980105040003.18797.qmail@nym.alias.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >At 02:25 98/01/04 +0100, Anonymous wrote: >> Windows is still fucking me up the ass! I'm bleeding to death here! >> >> >> > >For relief, see: http://www.enemy.org/ Uh, how does one read this in Lynx? The first page instructs you to choose your nearest location. The "Mirror Sites" page is an image map. Chosing this "image map" will pop up a series of selections like "(318,85)" and chosing one of these dies with a 404. There are four options below that: "Russia," "France," "Brasil," and "Japan." Chosing one of these brings you to a bunch of frames which aren't even named sanely. Frame "ob_li" has nothing in it. Frame "links" has nothing in it. Frame "un_li" has nothing in it. Frame "oben" has nothing in it. Is anyone beginning to see a pattern? Nearest I can tell, the people running enemy.org are just as clueless as the people programming at Microsoft. It's possible that they're even more clueless. If they want to attack Microsoft, they need to learn how to make a web page first. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Raph Levien Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 23:06:50 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: List of reliable remailers Message-ID: <199801051450.GAA13185@kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I operate a remailer pinging service which collects detailed information about remailer features and reliability. To use it, just finger remailer-list@kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu There is also a Web version of the same information, plus lots of interesting links to remailer-related resources, at: http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~raph/remailer-list.html This information is used by premail, a remailer chaining and PGP encrypting client for outgoing mail. For more information, see: http://www.c2.org/~raph/premail.html For the PGP public keys of the remailers, finger pgpkeys@kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu This is the current info: REMAILER LIST This is an automatically generated listing of remailers. The first part of the listing shows the remailers along with configuration options and special features for each of the remailers. The second part shows the 12-day history, and average latency and uptime for each remailer. You can also get this list by fingering remailer-list@kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu. $remailer{'cyber'} = ' alpha pgp'; $remailer{"mix"} = " cpunk mix pgp hash latent cut ek ksub reord ?"; $remailer{"replay"} = " cpunk mix pgp hash latent cut post ek"; $remailer{"jam"} = " cpunk mix pgp hash middle latent cut ek"; $remailer{"winsock"} = " cpunk pgp pgponly hash cut ksub reord ?"; $remailer{'nym'} = ' newnym pgp'; $remailer{"squirrel"} = " cpunk mix pgp pgponly hash latent cut ek"; $remailer{'weasel'} = ' newnym pgp'; $remailer{"reno"} = " cpunk mix pgp hash middle latent cut ek reord ?"; $remailer{"cracker"} = " cpunk mix remix pgp hash ksub esub latent cut ek reord post"; $remailer{'redneck'} = ' newnym pgp'; $remailer{"bureau42"} = " cpunk mix pgp ksub hash latent cut ek"; $remailer{"neva"} = " cpunk pgp pgponly hash cut ksub ?"; $remailer{"lcs"} = " mix"; $remailer{"medusa"} = " mix middle" $remailer{"McCain"} = " mix middle"; $remailer{"valdeez"} = " cpunk pgp pgponly hash ek"; $remailer{"arrid"} = " cpunk pgp pgponly hash ek"; $remailer{"hera"} = " cpunk pgp pgponly hash ek"; $remailer{"htuttle"} = " cpunk pgp hash latent cut post ek"; catalyst@netcom.com is _not_ a remailer. lmccarth@ducie.cs.umass.edu is _not_ a remailer. usura@replay.com is _not_ a remailer. remailer@crynwr.com is _not_ a remailer. There is no remailer at relay.com. Groups of remailers sharing a machine or operator: (cyber mix reno winsock) (weasel squirrel medusa) (cracker redneck) (nym lcs) (valdeez arrid hera) This remailer list is somewhat phooey. Go check out http://www.publius.net/rlist.html for a good one. Last update: Thu 23 Oct 97 15:48:06 PDT remailer email address history latency uptime ----------------------------------------------------------------------- hera goddesshera@juno.com ------------ 5:03:45 99.86% nym config@nym.alias.net +*#**#**### :34 95.82% redneck config@anon.efga.org #*##*+#**** 2:00 95.44% mix mixmaster@remail.obscura.com +++ ++++++* 19:18 95.27% squirrel mix@squirrel.owl.de -- ---+--- 2:34:19 95.16% cyber alias@alias.cyberpass.net *++***+ ++ 11:26 95.11% replay remailer@replay.com **** *** 10:06 94.93% arrid arrid@juno.com ----.------ 8:50:34 94.41% bureau42 remailer@bureau42.ml.org --------- 3:38:29 93.53% cracker remailer@anon.efga.org + +*+*+*+ 16:32 92.80% jam remailer@cypherpunks.ca + +*-++++ 24:14 92.79% winsock winsock@rigel.cyberpass.net -..-..---- 9:59:18 92.22% neva remailer@neva.org ------****+ 1:03:02 90.39% valdeez valdeez@juno.com 4:58:22 -36.97% reno middleman@cyberpass.net 1:01:28 -2.65% History key * # response in less than 5 minutes. * * response in less than 1 hour. * + response in less than 4 hours. * - response in less than 24 hours. * . response in more than 1 day. * _ response came back too late (more than 2 days). cpunk A major class of remailers. Supports Request-Remailing-To: field. eric A variant of the cpunk style. Uses Anon-Send-To: instead. penet The third class of remailers (at least for right now). Uses X-Anon-To: in the header. pgp Remailer supports encryption with PGP. A period after the keyword means that the short name, rather than the full email address, should be used as the encryption key ID. hash Supports ## pasting, so anything can be put into the headers of outgoing messages. ksub Remailer always kills subject header, even in non-pgp mode. nsub Remailer always preserves subject header, even in pgp mode. latent Supports Matt Ghio's Latent-Time: option. cut Supports Matt Ghio's Cutmarks: option. post Post to Usenet using Post-To: or Anon-Post-To: header. ek Encrypt responses in reply blocks using Encrypt-Key: header. special Accepts only pgp encrypted messages. mix Can accept messages in Mixmaster format. reord Attempts to foil traffic analysis by reordering messages. Note: I'm relying on the word of the remailer operator here, and haven't verified the reord info myself. mon Remailer has been known to monitor contents of private email. filter Remailer has been known to filter messages based on content. If not listed in conjunction with mon, then only messages destined for public forums are subject to filtering. Raph Levien From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Dan Ritter Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 21:00:00 +0800 To: Cassidy Lackey Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980105075118.0072eec0@pobox3.bbn.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 03:33 PM 1/3/98 -0600, you wrote: >Mobile Account Manager v1.1 now encrypts the data to the PalmPilot >database. For more information, check out our site at >http://www.mobilegeneration.com or you can download the trial version at >http://www.mobilegeneration.com/downloads/acctmgr.zip. Let me know if >there is anything else we can do! > >Cassidy Lackey >Mobile Generation Software >www.mobilegeneration.com > >Dan Ritter wrote: > >> What sort of encryption is used to protect private information in >> Mobile >> Account Manager? >From http://www.mobilegeneration.com : >After reviewing the costs and benefits associated with each of the published > encryption algorithms (DES, RC4, RC5, IDEA, etc...) we have decided to utilize a > proprietary Mobile Generation Software data encryption algorithm. Most This does not answer my original question, which is: what encryption method are you using? All it says is which encryption methods you are *not* using. > importantly, data encryption must ensure that no user can view the data in the > PalmPilot MAM database or the backup MAM database on the PC. We feel that it > is highly unlikely that anyone will attempt to 'break' the encryption and therefore the If I felt that it was highly unlikely, I'd hardly be asking, would I? Poor cryptography is worse than none - it encourages people to believe their data is safe when it is not. Good cryptography can stand up to having its algorithms made public. Can yours? > costs incurred by utilizing the published encryption algorithms would outweigh the > benefits. Therefore, we are confident that the MAM encryption algorithm provides > sufficient data security for the Mobile Account Manager database. Without providing more information, customers can not make that decision for themselves. > > Below are the costs associated with utilizing many of the published algorithms for > MAM: > > U.S. Laws governing encryption software may not allow for exportation of > MAM outside of the U.S. Then you should be active in political groups advocating change of those laws. In fact, if you really believe in encryption, you might want to offer this as a test case - even a reporter can see how silly it is not to be able to protect your ATM PIN. > Copyrights and royalties associated with many of the encryption algorithms > may increase the cost of MAM. Many strong encryption algorithms are free. > Complex encryption algorithms drastically increase the size of the application > and slow the response time of MAM. Many algorithms can be tuned for different levels of complexity. > If you feel uncomfortable placing your sensitive data in the PalmPilot, please let us > know and we will give you some other ideas to ensure that your data is secure. I am doing so. I am also copying this to the cypherpunks mailing list, as other people ought to be made aware of this issue. Nothing I have quoted seems to be nonpublic information. -dsr- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Eric Murray Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 00:33:44 +0800 To: ichudov@Algebra.COM Subject: Re: .50 ammo In-Reply-To: <199801050436.WAA21960@manifold.algebra.com> Message-ID: <199801051627.IAA20090@slack.lne.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Igor Chudov @ home writes: > > Tim May wrote: > > Armor-piercing ammo, the common kind, is just steel-core ammo. This is > > readily available in most calibers, esp. military calibers. (A less common > > kind is "KTW" handgun ammo, which is under some recent restrictions. And > > even less common, and almost certainly unavailable to the proles, are > > "sabot" rounds, some with tungsten cores.) > > By the way, I keep hearing about these sabot rounds but do not know > what they actually are. Could someone please explain. Thank you. A Sabot is a casing which goes around a bullet, allowing say a .22 caliber bullet to travel properly down a .30 caliber barrel. They're usually made of plastic and designed to fall away from the bullet soon after it leaves the barrel. It's a hack to get high(er) velocity out of an existing gun, or to expand the range of available projectiles for a weapon. I used to see Sabot rounds that were .22 caliber bullets with a .30 caliber Sabot, in a .30-06 casing. I think Remington made them and they were available to the general public. They were marketed for 'varmint' hunting, as an alternative to buying a .25-06 or similar varmint rifle. > > (There is little need for this, for even folks like us. We are not likely > > to want to disable fleeing vehicles, etc. And even conventional lead-core > > rifle rounds will cut through body armor easily, which is all I care about.) > > Many people underestimate the power of most rifles. Yes, and many people want to be able to buy a quick technological fix to something (like shooting) which requires talent and/or practice to become good at. Just like buying a synthesizer doesn't instantly make one a musician, buying a wonder gun doesn't immediately make one a crack shot. Not that I'm accusing anyone in this discussion of having this tendency, just pointing out that the best gun in many situations is the one that you have run the most rounds through. -- Eric Murray Chief Security Scientist N*Able Technologies www.nabletech.com (email: ericm at lne.com or nabletech.com) PGP keyid:E03F65E5 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 23:06:27 +0800 To: users@ssz.com (SSZ User Mail List) Subject: Japanese bank rifled by cyber-thieves [CNN] Message-ID: <199801051522.JAA23261@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Cyber-thieves target Sakura > > Data stolen from bank's computers leaked to Tokyo mailing-list vendor > > January 5, 1998: 8:10 a.m. ET > > Sakura seeks restructuring - Dec. 30, 1997 > > > [IMAGE] > > Sakura Bank > More related sites... TOKYO (Reuters) - Cyber-criminals rifled > confidential computer records of a major Japanese bank and stole > information on customers' names, telephone numbers, addresses and even > birthdays, the bank said Monday. > [INLINE] Sakura Bank Ltd. said data on up to 20,000 of its 15 million > individual customers could have been stolen and that it had confirmed > that files on at least 37 then were leaked to a mailing-list vendor in > Tokyo. [text deleted] ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jrbl Pookah Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 00:05:09 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Encrypted Telephony Products Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I've recently begun looking for internet telephony products that employ reasonably secure encryption on-the-fly. Now, I've found Nautilus, and PGPFone, but neither product appears to have been updated for quite a while now. I was just wondering if anybody could give me recommendations for more up-to-date products, and perhaps comparisons between those available. Thank you. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Burnes Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 01:11:41 +0800 To: Jrbl Pookah Subject: Re: Encrypted Telephony Products In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Mon, 5 Jan 1998, Jrbl Pookah wrote: > > > I've recently begun looking for internet telephony products that > employ reasonably secure encryption on-the-fly. Now, I've found Nautilus, > and PGPFone, but neither product appears to have been updated for quite a > while now. I was just wondering if anybody could give me recommendations > for more up-to-date products, and perhaps comparisons between those > available. > > Thank you. > Try Speak Freely. Sincercely, J. Burnes From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Andy Dustman Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 00:15:12 +0800 To: Bill Stewart Subject: Re: PGP-out-only vs. hashcash aware remailers? In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980104120940.00722cdc@popd.ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Sun, 4 Jan 1998, Bill Stewart wrote: > If you modify your remailer to only _output_ PGP-encrypted messages, > you get hashcash-equivalence, and cut abuse substantially. > The cost is limiting recipients to pgp users (plus known exceptions), > but it's tough to spam people when you need to look up their PGP key > and encrypt to it (at least you'll only get spams for high-tech stuff), > and it's tougher for random abusers to abuse people since most targets > don't have PGP keys, and a mailbox full of PGP junk is less annoying > to most people than a mailbox full of human-readable hate mail. > In particular, it's harder to send death threats to politicians > if they don't have published PGP keys. > > Is this a feature that makes sense? It makes some sense. It's similar to what I proposed a few weeks ago with "casual" remailers. The smart middleman portion of coerce does something similar: If it looks like a PGP message (has the "BEGIN PGP MESSAGE" line), it doesn't chain through a random remailer but delivers directly. I'm not sure if anyone is actually using this, though (perhaps tea/mccain). What you seem to be proposing is sending non-encrypted messages to /dev/null. That may yet be an option if things get bad, but I don't think they are that bad yet. It does seem to achieve, in part, the goals of hashcash (although it generally takes longer to generate hashcash, depending on the collision length required). > How would you implement it? You are correct that there are easy ways to spoof PGP messages well enough to fool a simple parser. One way around this would be to pipe any apparent PGP messages (start and end easily detected) through PGP to de-armor only. A couple problems: PGP (2.6.x) doesn't seem to have an option to only de-armor; a sophisticated spoofer could make the armor verify correctly anyway by generating the correct CRC (trivial if you know what you're doing). So it seems sensible to only consider some simple safeguards and not worry about actually decoding the armor. Andy Dustman / Computational Center for Molecular Structure and Design For a great anti-spam procmail recipe, send me mail with subject "spam". Append "+spamsucks" to my username to ensure delivery. KeyID=0xC72F3F1D Encryption is too important to leave to the government. -- Bruce Schneier http://www.athens.net/~dustman mailto:andy@neptune.chem.uga.edu <}+++< From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jonathan Wienke Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 03:39:22 +0800 To: ichudov@Algebra.COM Subject: Re: Lock and Load (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199712230422.WAA22160@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980105111943.006ce590@popd.netcruiser> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 At 10:37 PM 12/22/97 -0600, Igor Chudov @ home wrote: >You can't lock and load an AK. I remember that very well even though it >has been a while. The bolt just would not go far enough back to pick up >the cartridge. The bolt carrier's charging handle would only go as far >as to allow for the weapon inspection. I own a Norinco MAK-90 (a semi-auto only AK variant) and it is designed so that a round cannot be chambered with the safety on. If the weapon is not cocked, the hammer hits the top of the sear (which is locked by the safety) and prevents the bolt from traveling more than 1 inch to the rear. If the weapon is cocked, the charging handle on the side of the bolt hits the front of the safety lever, which stops the rearward travel of the bolt at about 2.5 inches, which is not sufficient to chamber a round. The magazine can be inserted or removed regardless of the position of the safety or the bolt. On my Winchester 1300 Defender 12-gauge, (a pump gun with a 7-round magazine) the safety cannot be engaged until the weapon has been cocked, which requires the action to be cycled. This will chamber a round unless the magazine is empty. On my Norinco Model 320 carbine (a semi-auto only Uzi lookalike) if the weapon is not cocked, and the grip safety is not depressed, the bolt is locked in the forward position, which makes it rather difficult to chamber a round. However, the safe/fire selector (the sliding button on the left side of the grip) has no effect on the bolt. Neither safety has any effect on inserting or removing a magazine. ObOddGunTrivia: One of the oddities of the SKS is that a magazine cannot be inserted or removed unless the bolt is locked in the rearmost position. The sides of the bolt have grooves machined in them that the lips of the magazine occupy when the bolt is forward. This can make changing a half-full magazine kind of annoying. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Business Security 5.5 iQA/AwUBNLEyTMJF0kXqpw3MEQIp+QCg1btR4CI1QthIVV2AYTTi7ztS6r0AoNlB LkkRQf7554PRxVe/Q+IsPqLs =SAYC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Jonathan Wienke PGP Key Fingerprints: 7484 2FB7 7588 ACD1 3A8F 778A 7407 2928 3312 6597 8258 9A9E D9FA 4878 C245 D245 EAA7 0DCC "If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains set lightly upon you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." -- Samuel Adams "Stupidity is the one arena of of human achievement where most people fulfill their potential." -- Jonathan Wienke Never sign a contract that contains the phrase "first-born child." When the government fears the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny. RSA export-o-matic: print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 00:42:51 +0800 To: "'cypherpunks@toad.com> Subject: RE: best body armor for cypherpunks [serious] Message-ID: <6B5344C210C7D011835C0000F80127668B15C9@exna01.securitydynamics.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > ---------- > From: Mix[SMTP:mixmaster@remail.obscura.com] > Reply To: Mix > Sent: Sunday, January 04, 1998 10:44 PM > To: cypherpunks@toad.com > Subject: best body armor for cypherpunks [serious] > > What is, in your opinion, the best (price and performance-wise) > body armor for cypherpunks? > After a few years on this list, one develops such a thick skin that extra protection is superfluos Peter Trei ptrei@securitydynamics.com From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Information Security Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 00:53:42 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: Internet Watch Foundation reports child nudity as illegal!! Message-ID: <199801051639.LAA26491@panix2.panix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > From jrg@blodwen.demon.co.uk Mon Jan 5 05:57:11 1998 > > Information Security writes: > > Can anyone not biased like Paul "British Twit of the Month" Allen > > confirm the two jpg's now visible at > > are in Demon's alt.binaries.pictures.nudism Usenet group? > > too late to check/ a right pain to check anyway bearing in mind how > much is probably available in that group. > > Give some message-ids and it's very easy to check if they are and grab > the headers of the messages from them (if you're really interested in > how they got here, etc.) My interest has blown over. PICSRules is a political response to government pressure. IWF immediately began watching for KiddiePorn and notifying IWF member organizations (and police) about such posts. Members are given the MD5 of the post to automatically delete it when next seen, in addition to the first deletion. The only thing "watch" organizations are good for is spotting "controversial" material. Demon/IWF's Clive Feather: : Some subscribers to IWF have asked to be notified of certain other : classes of material, since they *do* choose to censor and not carry : more than just material that is illegal to possess. Demon is not one : of these ISPs. So, IWF supports labeling/spotting of controversial material for the purposes of censorship, beyond what is illegal. Thus, the IWF is not going to get anywhere with PICSRules. No way in hell can they label all of the Net. Usenet content is produced at a furious rate: it cannot be rated until it has already expired off of most servers. Rate WWW? Most are business: who cares about advertising/support? Any page with a counter on it won't verify the MD5 taken when it was "rated"... PICSRules is a political prank on the politicians. Kind of like The Jetsons was an educational show about the future. What *is* happening are groups forming to censor material; funded by governments... # http://192.215.107.71/wire/news/june/0630ratings.html # # The Internet Watch Foundation, has already submitted a funding # request to the European Commission. # # "Whatever happens, we will carry on trying to get the funding # we need," Kerr said. "These things cost money, and we have not # got all the money we need", said David Kerr, chief executive # of the British-based Internet Watch Foundation This will probably keep expanding; Germany IWF to zap Nazi logos, Israel IWF to zap revisionist history, Muslim IWF to zap heresy, etc. ---guy The never-ending joke: Dimitry "I suck my male students" Vulis From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Robert Hettinga Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 06:19:58 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: Anonymous Remailers Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain --- begin forwarded text Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 23:14:19 -0800 From: Chuq Von Rospach Subject: Re: Anonymous Remailers To: "ListMom-Talk Discussion List" Mime-Version: 1.0 Precedence: Bulk Reply-To: "ListMom-Talk Discussion List" Sender: "ListMom-Talk Discussion List" X-URL: At 8:10 PM -0800 1/4/98, Eric Mings wrote: > I noticed on Apple's info about acceptable behavior on their lists, that > they ban postings which originate from anonymous remailers (of which they > include juno). I was wondering what experience people have had regarding > abusive posts from such systems, and how one easily identifies them if > you choose to ban postings originating from such systems. Thanks. That's me. I decided to stop accepting posts from anonymous remailers way back, when anon.penet.fi was still alive. Some of that is philosophy, some of that was problems. As far as problems, it's the normal stuff -- personal attacks, mailbombing through anonymous remailers, copyright/slander/libel issues, all the normal fun and games. Since you can't track users back, you have real problems policing them. And since anonymous remailers tend to allow multiple (heading towards infinite) remailing addresses, the practical issue of how to lock out an abusive user becomes severe. That's why Juno is bounced -- you can create accounts and then use them instantly, with no policing and no tracking. I had a problem a while back with an idiot who did, abusively. After about four rounds of trying to get him to go away, I did it the hard way, with a virtual neutron bomb. Juno's no help. In THAT case, I got email from them six weeks later apologizing for being so delayed in responding to my requests for help. they didn't offer to help, they just apologized for not telling me they wouldn't for so long. And that's been typical of my dealing with them. They don't police. They don't care. Their systems are set up so that basically, they *can't* police things. So I just don't even get into it. Since I can't police their users, I police their site. Effectively, they are an anonymous remailer. God knows enough folks use them as one. -- Chuq Von Rospach (chuq@apple.com) Apple IS&T Mail List Gnome Plaidworks Consulting (chuqui@plaidworks.com) ( +-+ The home for Hockey on the net) --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/ Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Declan McCullagh Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 03:15:07 +0800 To: Tim May Subject: Re: [Humor] Kennedy's New Legislation In-Reply-To: <199801030048.SAA02365@wire.insync.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 17:17 -0800 1/2/98, Tim May wrote: >Wanna bet that if I was on the hill in Aspen horsing around playing ski >football and behaving like a drunken lout with a bunch of other people the >ski patrol would whistle us down and tell us to knock it off? We have a good story in this week's Time that talks about how the ski resort had repeatedly asked the Kennedys to knock it off. Including the night before the accident. Even on the "fateful" afternoon, the ski patrol had told the Kennedys -- the last on the slopes -- it was time to quit. "Nevertheless, 36 members of the Kennedy party prepared to play." -Declan From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Brian B. Riley" Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 05:55:52 +0800 To: "Alan Olsen" Subject: Netiquette: (was) Re: .50 ammo Message-ID: <199801052140.QAA24055@mx01.together.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On 1/5/98 1:29 AM, Alan Olsen (alan@clueserver.org) passed this wisdom: >At 09:24 PM 1/4/98 -0600, Igor Chudov @ home wrote: >>Alan wrote: >>> At 04:50 PM 1/3/98 -0500, Brian B. Riley wrote: >>> The hardest part is getting the 50 cal ammo. (He had his Federal >>> firearms license and was in the National Guard, so it was not too >>> difficult for him.) Getting AP and other special ammo would be >>> doubly difficult. (Non-specialty ammo could be reloaded as long as >>> you could get molds and primer caps.) >>> >>> I guess it depends on your military and/or black market >>> connections. >> >>I have seen what appeared to be .50 ammo (probably not AP) in gun >> stores. > >I am surprised, but I am sure you are correct. It has been quite a >whilesince I have spent time in gun shops. (My expenditures on ammo >is limited to smaller calibers. I tend not to look at other things >because I cannot afford what I >want.) small point here of netiquette. one should be careful when trimming down quotes out of context ... I did not make the above statement. This time it is of little matter as the statement wasn't very inflammatory nor was it very controversial (not that CP is *ever* inflammatory or controversial), but it may well have been. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBNLFTOz7r4fUXwraZAQHDDQf/XBk9i+6+GA7UcZD/a1CY3F/102Kh5u/L Y0KfqoMGCqv23oeJbayxjbWtXKSDd5+wX8Owrmr0i4arsD7vsunECkiQeUf0oQ83 Nid/tffRD5smu6P7mrf4yRVWOKKMmY8/VLOpFi9mRrOGVAWpGildXDikIhDuFylW RHjRnSugM88RUqz1Z7rLuIirMpYm//UVT0YRM9EXUyH/ejmOgH5YB8vP5isPBa4T L2TjPKbirQU1BX5HdgrVB+WkOpHdfSvA6sFlMPdAG4VvRltXA1IXZv1ce1AlKgtW OTnzvFoVrnMieJ0cKxe/dXSbFpedb9BBmCcCo+GWuf/Z2M/NWMwSnA== =SO5L -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Brian B. Riley --> http://members.macconnect.com/~brianbr For PGP Keys "There's so much comedy on television. Does that cause comedy in the streets?" Dick Cavett From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Declan McCullagh Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 07:20:04 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Crypto-enemy senator gets cash from Johnny Chung Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sen. Kerry is not as extreme as Sen. Kerrey, but he still is an enemy of strong encryption. I wrote last year: >>>> The committee also approved amendments proposed by Kerry that would give jurisdiction over crypto exports to a nine-member "Encryption Export Advisory Board." The panel would "evaluate whether [a] market exists abroad" and make non-binding recommendations to the president. <<<< Here's what he's been up to recently... -Declan KERRY: DAMAGE CONTROL Boston Globe's Black reports, Boston atty Robert Crowe on 12/29 resigned as chair of Sen. John Kerry's (D) camp. finance cmte "in response to negative publicity that featured his ties" to Kerry. Crowe, "a longtime close personal friend and financial supporter" of Kerry's, "reportedly decided that he had had enough of critical newspaper stories, sources close to Kerry said." Kerry, responding to the resignation which he termed "understandable": "Bob Crowe has done an outstanding job for me, often at the expense of his own personal life." Crowe had "made headlines" recently in regard to his role as a lobbyist for Boston's Big Dig and his work for a firm hired by the Swiss Bankers Assn. Kerry's finance cmte will be "'streamlined'" and headed by Peter Maroney who was hired by the campaign last fall (12/30). CHUNG CONNECTION? A Los Angeles Times article by Rempel & Miller reported that Kerry received $10K in '97 from Dem contributor Johnny Chung following Chung's "high-level meeting" with SEC officials, arranged for him by Kerry's office soon after he paid a visit there. A Kerry spokesperson "confirmed that Kerry's office contacted the SEC" on Chung's behalf, "but she said it involved no more than helping arrange "'a tour.'" The DoJ is investigating the contribution which Chung is said to have made through several employees and others whom he reimbursed. Kerry spokesperson Tovah Ravitz "acknowledged" that Chung was approached for a donation "'numerous times because they were nearing the end of a tough campaign.'" Although Ravitz said Kerry's office arranged a tour for Chung, SEC officials "said the request on behalf of Chung involved a briefing session" (12/24). Boston Globe's Zitner follows up on the Times story, reporting that Chung's visit to the SEC "was something more than a casual tour but something less than special access to high government official, the SEC said." Kerry's Ravitz said Chung made the request for a stop at the SEC during an 8/96 visit, accompanied by other Asian businessmen, to Kerry's office. Chung and the others visited the SEC later the same day (12/25). On 12/26, USA Today reported that Ravitz said the Times was incorrect in its initial report (12/26). 01/05 12:35 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 08:47:41 +0800 To: JonWienk@ix.netcom.com (Jonathan Wienke) Subject: Re: Lock and Load (fwd) In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980105111943.006ce590@popd.netcruiser> Message-ID: <199801060038.SAA30088@manifold.algebra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Jonathan Wienke wrote: > At 10:37 PM 12/22/97 -0600, Igor Chudov @ home wrote: > >You can't lock and load an AK. I remember that very well even though it > >has been a while. The bolt just would not go far enough back to pick up > >the cartridge. The bolt carrier's charging handle would only go as far > >as to allow for the weapon inspection. > > I own a Norinco MAK-90 (a semi-auto only AK variant) and it is designed so > that a round cannot be chambered with the safety on. If the weapon is not > cocked, the hammer hits the top of the sear (which is locked by the safety) > and prevents the bolt from traveling more than 1 inch to the rear. If the > weapon is cocked, the charging handle on the side of the bolt hits the > front of the safety lever, which stops the rearward travel of the bolt at > about 2.5 inches, which is not sufficient to chamber a round. The magazine > can be inserted or removed regardless of the position of the safety or the > bolt. All AKs are like that. And I maintain that it is the right design, from the safety standpoint. - Igor. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 08:42:54 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: [Humor] Kennedy's New Legislation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <53Zuie3w165w@bwalk.dm.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Declan McCullagh writes: > We have a good story in this week's Time that talks about how the ski > resort had repeatedly asked the Kennedys to knock it off. Including the > night before the accident. Even on the "fateful" afternoon, the ski patrol > had told the Kennedys -- the last on the slopes -- it was time to quit. > "Nevertheless, 36 members of the Kennedy party prepared to play." "Evolution in action." Thank you, Michael Kennedy, for improving humanity's gene pool. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Bruce Schneier Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 10:53:42 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: Comparing PGP to Symantec's Secret Stuff In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801060247.UAA24711@mixer.visi.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > Having worked for those multinationals and defense >contractors, I've seen them buy new products with serious weaknesses >in key generation, with year 2000 problems, with stream ciphers used >to protect stored data--keyed the same way each time. I've seen them >use code that sent cleartext where it should have been encrypting on >the wire. I second this. The pitiful state of "secure code" is shocking. (Actually, I just wrote an essay on the topic. Get a copy for yourself at: http://www.counterpane.com/pitfalls.html.) Bruce ************************************************************************** * Bruce Schneier For information on APPLIED CRYPTOGRAPHY * Counterpane Systems 2nd EDITION (15% discount and errata), * schneier@counterpane.com Counterpane Systems's consulting services, * http://www.counterpane.com/ or the Blowfish algorithm, see my website. ************************************************************************** From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Information Security Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 09:58:49 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: [Humor] Kennedy's New Legislation Message-ID: <199801060150.UAA21492@panix2.panix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > "Evolution in action." > Thank you, Michael Kennedy, for improving humanity's gene pool. Too bad _you_ reproduced. ---guy From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Bruce Schneier Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 11:04:29 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: Comparing PGP to Symantec's Secret Stuff In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801060259.UAA26681@mixer.visi.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 08:56 PM 12/16/97 -0800, Bill Frantz wrote: >At 3:01 AM -0800 12/16/97, Vin McLellan wrote: >> Norton Secret Stuff secures the data using the 32-bit Blowfish >>encryption algorithm -- which is why it's approved for unrestricted export >>outside the US by the U.S. government. > >This is the first I've heard of a Blowfish based produce being approved for >export. Since Blowfish has about 9 bits worth of protection against brute >force searches in its key schedule, this is about a 41 bit approval. Does >anyone know of an export permit for a version of Blowfish with a key longer >than 32 bits? Blowfish with a 32-bit key has been approved for export before. The argument is that the long key setup time makes 32-bit Blowfish as weak as 40-bit anything else. I don't particularly agree, but there you have it. Bruce ********************************************************************** Bruce Schneier, President, Counterpane Systems Phone: 612-823-1098 101 E Minnehaha Parkway, Minneapolis,MN 55419 Fax: 612-823-1590 http://www.counterpane.com From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Wei Dai Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 17:05:50 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: cypherpunks and guns Message-ID: <19980106005136.23824@eskimo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I don't understand why there is so much talk about guns here lately. Unless someone comes up with a weapon that has some very unusual economic properties, individuals cannot hope to compete with governments in the domain of deadly force. If we have to resort to physical violence, we've already lost! Think about it: if we can defend ourselves with guns, why would we need crypto? From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 18:12:19 +0800 To: Wei Dai Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 12:51 AM -0800 1/6/98, Wei Dai wrote: >I don't understand why there is so much talk about guns here lately. >Unless someone comes up with a weapon that has some very unusual economic >properties, individuals cannot hope to compete with governments in the >domain of deadly force. If we have to resort to physical violence, we've >already lost! People on almost any unmoderated mailing list will talk about what interests them. Those who mainly want to talk about crypto are of course free to do so. (You have, Wei, done important work in this area. But you very, very seldom write articles on this list, at least not for the last couple of years--I count less than one article per month from you over the past half year. I urge you to write such articles if you dislike reading what others are writing.) I agree that two or three or four or five years ago I was much more likely to write about something more crypto-related. Well, much time has passed. Most things worth saying have been said, at least for me. I can't work up the energy to discuss "data havens" a fourth or fifth time. (And an article from me on data havens, or information markets, or crypto anarchy, will usually produce complaints from people who don't see what it has to do with getting the latest version of PGP! That's only a slight exaggeration.) There have also been very few major new participants. A few years ago we could count on one or two major new "talents" joining the list each year, generating articles and new ideas. For whatever reasons, this has nearly stopped. I would guess the reasons are related to a) no major publicity stories as in past years, b) the disintegration of the list a year ago in the wake of the "moderation" fiasco (which cut subscriptions by 3-5x), c) competition from several other crypto lists, "moderated" by their owners, d) exhaustion of the older participants in the battles, and e) those who are interested in our topics have mostly already found us (meaning, the rich hunting period is over). ; >Think about it: if we can defend ourselves with guns, why would we need >crypto? This has an obvious answer. Guns are a last resort. Crypto makes it less likely that Big Brother will know what the proles are talking about, less likely that participants in a plan will be targetted for investigation and raids. Wei, your question could be paraphrased this way: "If Pablo Escobar could defend himself with guns, why did he need crypto in his cellphone?" (The answer being that P. Escobar was detected by using a cellphone without security. The NSA then told the DEA and its allies where he was and they took him out on a rooftop.) Final comment: If I find the motivation, I may finish an essay I've been working on about how we, the Cypherpunks and the World, are *retrogressing* in crypto areas. Most of the exotic applications are no longer being discussed, and various mundane commercial products are the main focus. Yawn. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Loren J. Rittle" Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 18:14:10 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: Mobile phones used as trackers In-Reply-To: <199801012054.PAA25297@users.invweb.net> Message-ID: <199801061007.EAA28104@supra.rsch.comm.mot.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain In article <199801012054.PAA25297@users.invweb.net>, "William H. Geiger III" writes: > It is my understanding that they can still track you with the cell phone > turned off so long as there is power going to the box (most auto cell > phones are hardwired into the cars electrical system). This is the funniest thing I have read in some time. Assuming you watch the show, I think you may have watched too many episodes of the X-Files (TM). When the subscriber unit (SU a.k.a. the cellular phone) is turned off, "they" can't track you. Now, it is possible that some cars have built-in SUs that automatically power-on whenever the car is started. In this case, the SU is clearly turned on and the user knows it. Analog cellular phone systems in the U.S. only force the SU to transmit when they need too. As someone else already mentioned, from the perspective of cellular system operators, bandwidth is in short supply. The cellular system operators wouldn't stand for a bunch of unneeded transmissions "just to track location". Based upon my own personal informal study [1] and some past knowledge of cellular-type systems [2], in general, I believe the following about analog cellular systems fielded in the U.S.: 1) "They" might be able to get a location reading at power-on time. The SU will check to see if it is being powered on within a different cell than it was last registered. If the cell is different, then the SU transmits a message on the cell's control channel to reregister. If the SU believes it is in the same cell, then it doesn't transmit anything at power-on time. If the SU transmits, it will be a very short burst. This would allow an attacker to see your location at power-on time. 2) When your SU is on, "they" can track your cell-to-cell movements. Cells are on the order of 1-10 miles in diameter. The more populated the area (actually, the more likely the system is to be used in an area), the smaller the cell size. "They" will only get a reading when you move between cells. The system uses a form of hysteresis so your SU doesn't flip back and forth between two cells while you are on the "edge" between cell. Actually, there are no real edges to the cells in an RF cellular system. There is a bit of overlap between cells and the cell boundaries actually move over time due to environmental factors. I.e. your SU might be stationary and yet decide to move to a different cell due to a stronger signal being seen from a different cell at a particular point in time. 3) "They" can track your fine-grain movement while you are engaged in a call or call setup. This is because an SU transmits the entire time these activities take place. Note that call setup can be for either incoming or outgoing calls. The above appear to be the only times an SU will transmit in a properly functioning analog cellular system. Now, if we change the rules to allow an active "spoof" attack or participation by the service provider, I speculate that specific attacks against one or a few people (well, actually against their SUs) could be waged to track their fine-grain movement: 4) Continuously inform the SU that an incoming call is waiting. The user would get an indication of this attack since the phone would "ring" to signal an incoming call. OTOH, perhaps, there is a way to inform the SU that an incoming call is waiting without allowing the phone to enter the final state where it begins to "ring". A detailed study of the air interface and SU implementations would be required to understand if the silent attack is possible. This attack could target one SU. Even if direct indications were not seen by the user, battery life would be shortened somewhat. 5) Continuously force the SU to "see" a different cell code, thus forcing it to continuously reregister. The user would get no direct indication during the attack. However, battery life would be shortened somewhat. There may be protection in the SU to ensure a minimum time period between reregistrations. However, this would just limit the fineness of the tracking. Again, detailed study would be required. This attack would appear to target multiple SUs in a given area. If you assume your attacker is capable of (4), (5) and similar tricks and you have something to hide, then I suppose turning your SU off and on is a wise course of action. However, the coarse-grain (pin-point location but only at widely dispersed points in time) tracking afforded by (1) and (2) seem like minimal threats. If you are concerned by (3), then please remind me why you are using the analog cellular phone system. Regards, Loren [1] My informal study was conducted with a Motorola Micro TAC Lite SU and an HP 2.9 GHz Spectrum Analyzer on 1/5/98 and 1/6/98. My analog cellular service provider is Ameritech in the Chicagoland area. [2] Disclaimer: I personally work on research related to the iDEN system (which is an advanced form of digital cellular with dispatch services and packet data) being rolled out nationwide in the U.S. by Nextel along with other local and international operators. Motorola recently shipped the millionth SU for iDEN. I am only speaking for myself. I have never worked on analog cellular systems nor read its specification. -- Loren J. Rittle (rittle@comm.mot.com) PGP KeyIDs: 1024/B98B3249 2048/ADCE34A5 Systems Technology Research (IL02/2240) FP1024:6810D8AB3029874DD7065BC52067EAFD Motorola, Inc. FP2048:FDC0292446937F2A240BC07D42763672 (847) 576-7794 Call for verification of fingerprints. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Ryan Lackey Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 18:50:14 +0800 To: Wei Dai Subject: Re: cypherpunks and guns Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain (Wei Dai) writes: > I don't understand why there is so much talk about guns here lately. > Unless someone comes up with a weapon that has some very unusual economic > properties, individuals cannot hope to compete with governments in the > domain of deadly force. If we have to resort to physical violence, we've > already lost! > > Think about it: if we can defend ourselves with guns, why would we need > crypto? I am fairly certain that as an irregular army soldier I could inflict a substantial amount of damage upon an occupying military. With maybe $20k in equipment and several hundred hours of training, you could make life very difficult for any luckless squad that happens your way. Multiply that by 100 million armed citizens and you see that armed civilian resistance *can* defeat an occupying army. Certainly in times of "peace" information/infrastructure warfare is much more cost effective for the guerilla -- but once they start sending armored patrols around armed with 600 surplus M-16 rifles and having [un]official rules of engagement which include sniper fire on the wives and children of citizens not convicted of any crime, burning tens of people alive for their religious beliefs, forcibly sodomizing suspects with wooden rods, and passing laws which cripple the 1st by making it a crime to read, it's perhaps worth looking at other methods of resistance. (wow, that approached Hettingan length while having little in common with his style :) Plus, I honestly believe certain people who lacked the foresight or desire to use anonymity have increased the chances of illegal unconstitutional government action against them. It'll be a lot harder to quietly kill someone and keep it out of the news if they're prepared to fight back to the extent that I gather Tim May and others are prepared. Even if being armed does nothing more than let the world know they have declared war against the constitution, it's worth it. Me, I still plan to get out before high powered riflery becomes anything other than a sport. The Seychelles are looking remarkably tempting... (I still say steel core ammo is the way to go, especially in 5.56 NATO and 7.62 Soviet. There exist plenty of vests which have rifle hardplate to stop those rounds -- even 7.62 NATO rounds. 7.62 NATO AP/API, though, is a bit tougher, buying you substantial time) Hacking on Eternity DDS, Ryan [Not actually a gun toting lunatic, nor does he play one on TV, but rather keeps them in a safe, and carries knives instead. Yay Massachusetts. I hope this does not spark a discussion of how to stop a government assault force armed with only a knife (hint: the answer is not "in parallel")] [*ObCrypto* (it's getting really hard to do this every time): AOLserver (a nice web server formerly from GNN/navisoft) punted their 128bit SSL module distribution *EVEN TO US CITIZENS* due to commerce department fuckedness. Anyone know where I could get a copy? It would really suck to have to patch the 40bit one into a 128bit version, since they do not distribute source. Sigh. But I've started to use it for insecure stuff because it's cheaper than Stronghold (read: free) and does some cool database stuff easier than apache. And (cool db stuff + free) is more important than (secure) or (secure and easily configured and supported) for this.] -- Ryan Lackey rdl@mit.edu http://mit.edu/rdl/ From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: John Young Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 20:14:06 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Letter on Jim Bell Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980106115810.0074e354@pop.pipeline.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain There's a recent letter on Jim Bell/AP/IRS harassment by long-time friend Bob East at: http://www.charm.net/~joabj/belet.htm Offered by Joab Jackson, who wrote the recent story posted here for the Baltimore City Paper. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Eric Murray Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 01:14:06 +0800 To: weidai@eskimo.com Subject: Re: cypherpunks and guns In-Reply-To: <19980106005136.23824@eskimo.com> Message-ID: <199801061655.IAA23107@slack.lne.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Wei Dai writes: > > I don't understand why there is so much talk about guns here lately. > Unless someone comes up with a weapon that has some very unusual economic > properties, individuals cannot hope to compete with governments in the > domain of deadly force. If we have to resort to physical violence, we've > already lost! > > Think about it: if we can defend ourselves with guns, why would we need > crypto? I agree- the fedz will always have better firepower than any of us. Tim's strategy of letting them know that he won't take a 'no-knock' raid sitting down might keep them honest. Or it might make them come in with 80 special agents and a heliocopter to drop napalm on his house. I'm not going to spend a lot of time setting up defenses against a massive police attack- the costs are too high (expensive weapons, time practicing on the range) and the hassle is great... who wants to live barricaded in their house, jumping at every noise? Better to do the things that we're good at- writing code, cracking codes, writing about crypto-liberation ideas. However, guns are good for a couple things- they're still useful against non-government thugs, and they're a hell of a lot of fun. -- Eric Murray Chief Security Scientist N*Able Technologies www.nabletech.com (email: ericm at lne.com or nabletech.com) PGP keyid:E03F65E5 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: David Honig Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 02:01:00 +0800 To: Tim May Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980106095312.007b8eb0@otc.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 01:54 AM 1/6/98 -0800, Tim May wrote: >At 12:51 AM -0800 1/6/98, Wei Dai wrote: >>I don't understand why there is so much talk about guns here lately. Wei, Tim's response, though correct, is too serious. The real reason, I am inferring as I was not the initiator, was humor. This list tolerates a fair amount of crap, including spam and random ad-hominems. This is a result of the openness required to permit anonymous posts as has been explained in the last month or so. I have considered this 1. an occasional demonstration of crypto issues, esp. anonymity and authentication 2. just typical net.abuse. (There is also some oddness going on apparently between Vulis and others on this list, which Vulis didn't deny was spoofed when I asked. I don't know why, as V. seems to be libertarian, if homophobic.) There are also various humorous threads and banter that occurs. The gun-troll was part of that. Of course, it was a respectable question and answered well, although TM's answer tended towards the expensive, but Intel has done well. Both the question itself on this list, and the dryness of the answers, were amusing. The body-armor question is humorous also, esp. following the gun side-thread. Of course, your milage may vary. ------------------------------------------------------------ David Honig Orbit Technology honig@otc.net Intaanetto Jigyoubu "How do you know you are not being deceived?" ---A Compendium of Analytic TradeCraft Notes, Directorate of Intelligence, CIA From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: David Honig Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 02:24:08 +0800 To: Ryan Lackey Subject: Re: cypherpunks and guns In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980106100807.007ab610@otc.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 05:28 AM 1/6/98 -0500, Ryan Lackey wrote: > >I am fairly certain that as an irregular army soldier I could inflict >a substantial amount of damage upon an occupying military. With maybe >$20k in equipment and several hundred hours of training, you could make >life very difficult for any luckless squad that happens your way. Multiply >that by 100 million armed citizens and you see that armed civilian >resistance *can* defeat an occupying army. A distributed decentralized terrorist group can trash almost any country's infrastructure as well. The gov't knows this, but if it were to start happening (or their intelligence indicated it might) guards would be sent to the power stations, transformers, water works, radio relays, NAPs, refineries, etc. These guards would be physical, guarding physical resources against physical threats. They would be able to resist smaller threats. As you say, if outnumbered, they're eventually hosed. The recent gov't interest in 'cyber' threats against infrastructure reflects the fact that the government doesn't dominate the digital domain, and can't protect it with troops, and needs it to run civilization and its armies. ------------------------------------------------------------ David Honig Orbit Technology honig@otc.net Intaanetto Jigyoubu "How do you know you are not being deceived?" ---A Compendium of Analytic TradeCraft Notes, Directorate of Intelligence, CIA From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "William H. Geiger III" Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 00:25:39 +0800 To: Andy Dustman Subject: Re: PGP-out-only vs. hashcash aware remailers? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801061630.LAA15383@users.invweb.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In , on 01/05/98 at 11:14 AM, Andy Dustman said: >A couple problems: PGP (2.6.x) doesn't seem to have an option to only >de-armor PGP -da [filename] - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a-sha1 Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBNLJZ9o9Co1n+aLhhAQHtGAP+LCyT+AGEcQoatO6vGAzj1qAInO9eSb9a Lhil7PdLxJFJO7FrkkpEkUSq+thIpKU5H+Kfo/qwq+fkeIKlgh8EAlog4bLTaTg8 yW2ZAOn1qVY5xZHppvIn946WE0/IxFCXee5EfzrnhchvpzVn4JXtYkWNf0wqP8it vPOsqKr3XQ4= =Vx+s -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: David Miller Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 00:10:03 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Re: Mobile phones used as trackers In-Reply-To: <199801012054.PAA25297@users.invweb.net> Message-ID: <34B27F22.7C07@avana.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Loren J. Rittle wrote: > If you assume your attacker is capable of (4), (5) and similar tricks > and you have something to hide, then I suppose turning your SU off and > on is a wise course of action. Another attack that was recently described to me by someone in the industry is to setup a three-way conversation, which basically is a cellular phone tap. The conversation could be split within the cell network to a silent party more interested in your communications than your location. --David Miller From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Declan McCullagh Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 03:19:49 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: ACM conference on computer-related policy (DC, 5/98) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 11:10:49 -0800 (PST) From: Declan McCullagh To: fight-censorship-announce@vorlon.mit.edu Subject: ACM conference on computer-related policy (DC, 5/98) [The best policy for the Net is probably no policy, or at most a hands-off one. We don't have national "policies" for how we should regulate, for example, newspapers or bookstores, and we don't need such policies for the Net. On universal service, we already have Internet connections that are cheaper than cable TV; on copyright, the safest course is to let federal courts decide; on crypto, most agree that the current "policy" is misguided at best. --Declan] *************** ASSOCIATION FOR COMPUTING (ACM) ANNUAL CONFERENCE * * * POLICY98 * * * "Shaping Policy in the Information Age" Washington, DC, Renaissance Hotel May 10-12, 1998 Preliminary Notice For Conference and Registration information see: http://www.acm.org/usacm/events/policy98/ The ACM Annual Conference will focus on public policy issues affecting future applications of computing. Our goal is to forge stronger links between computing professionals and policy makers. Attendees will interact with prominent leaders from academia, industry, Congress, and Executive agencies, and participate in debates on policy issues including Universal Access, Electronic Commerce, Intellectual Property, and Education Online. The conference will promote more regular engagement of computing professionals in democratic processes related to productive use of computing and information processing innovations. A blend of technical skills and policy insights are essential to cope with the inherent opportunities and dangers of any transformational technology. Continuing collaborations between computing professionals and policy makers will benefit citizens, consumers, entrepreneurs, researchers, and students. You can make a difference! May 10: Ethical and social impacts papers and panels May 11-12: Public policy panels and featured speakers All Policy98 attendees are invited to the Annual ACM Awards Banquet on Sunday evening May 10th, and a conference reception on Monday evening May 11th. +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+ PANEL TOPICS AND COORDINATORS =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+ Universal Service: Ollie Smoot What can be done to promote widespread access to the benefits of the Internet? What is the role of government and the role of the private sector in wiring schools, libraries, and medical facilities? Electronic Commerce: Jim Horning How much public policy does EComm need? What problems would inadequate, excessive, or misguided policies cause? Can compromises in areas like fair trade practices, fraud prevention, security, privacy, law enforcement, and taxation advance the interests of all stakeholders? Intellectual Property in Cyberspace: Pam Samuelson What will be the impact of the WIPO agreements on copyright in cyberspace? How should intellectual property be protected and what safeguards are necessary to protect libraries and academic institutions? Education Online: Charles N. Brownstein The Internet offers unparalleled opportunities for learning and teaching. What public policy and technical challenges must be met to realize these prospects? +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+ CONFERENCE CO-CHAIRS =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+ Ben Shneiderman, USACM (U.S. Public Policy Committee) C. Dianne Martin, SIGCAS (ACM Special Interest Group on Computers & Society) +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+ PROGRAM COMMITTEE CHAIRS =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+ Marc Rotenberg, Public Policy Keith Miller, Ethics and Social Impacts +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+ REGISTRATION INFORMATION =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+ For more information, contact: policy98@acm.org or to register electronically, see: http://www.acm.org/usacm/events/policy98/reginfo.html Early registrants and ACM members receive discounts. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "William H. Geiger III" Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 01:45:57 +0800 To: rittle@comm.mot.com Subject: Re: Mobile phones used as trackers In-Reply-To: <199801061007.EAA28104@supra.rsch.comm.mot.com> Message-ID: <199801061749.MAA16034@users.invweb.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In <199801061007.EAA28104@supra.rsch.comm.mot.com>, on 01/06/98 at 05:07 AM, "Loren J. Rittle" said: >In article <199801012054.PAA25297@users.invweb.net>, >"William H. Geiger III" writes: >> It is my understanding that they can still track you with the cell phone >> turned off so long as there is power going to the box (most auto cell >> phones are hardwired into the cars electrical system). >This is the funniest thing I have read in some time. Assuming you watch >the show, I think you may have watched too many episodes of the X-Files >(TM). The point I was trying to make, and you seemed to have missed, is that just because you turn off the switch and the lights are not flashing and blinking does not mean that power is not going to some of the circuits. Take the following into account: 1) Location Tracking via Cell Phone is currently available using equipment in place. 2) FCC mandates for Location tracking under the cover of 911 service 3) In field testing being done in several cities. 4) Lojack systems in place in several cities. 5) Systems in development for continuous traffic monitoring in the major cities for automated traffic management to address the problems of "rush hour" traffic. 6) GPS systems being built into productions vehicles at the factory. It seems only natural to merge these into one piece of equipment using one communication infrastructure. I think that if you take a closer look at where various technologies and regulations are going to see that this is less "X-File" like than you may think. - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a-sha1 Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBNLJsa49Co1n+aLhhAQENDwQAg93KFwtcSlKX2MB/W/zaQ1DoPtPoo1/+ 69qd8v9fTz35IOr8hKLiwwSf1jxqJNOMasU1jyjQtmPqZLVJFS6vQdgbj+9mcRaQ VKL48HrmiGasEFYXlsVP7qBSPxYP63qxz3gs0zKlKVLrZ6dO+0dt+WXdc1lYCcaJ a9BM9B3w/Pw= =dULr -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: jim@mentat.com (Jim Gillogly) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 04:15:19 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: Silly Shrinkwrapped Encryption Message-ID: <9801062004.AA18375@mentat.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Eric Cordian says: > Could someone poke through Lotus Notes with a debugger and see exactly how > this "giving 24 bits to the government" is implemented? Lotus produced a "backgrounder" called "Differential Workfactor Cryptography" when they first promulgated the 64/40 stuff. It says (in part): We do that by encrypting 24 of the 64 bits under a public RSA key provided by the U.S. government and binding the encrypted partial key to the encrypted data. I haven't seen the USG RSA key -- if it's 512 bits, that would be a humorous next factoring target. Jim Gillogly 15 Afteryule S.R. 1998, 20:02 12.19.4.14.15, 12 Men 13 Kankin, Seventh Lord of Night From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Ray Arachelian Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 01:04:53 +0800 To: Salvatore DeNaro Subject: Re: 800 pound GorillaSoft In-Reply-To: <00456D9D.1576@usccmail.lehman.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, Salvatore DeNaro passed me this url: http://www.motherjones.com/mother_jones/JF98/burstein.html "But instead of waiting for a ruling on the case, the BSA abruptly dropped the suit in the fall of 1997. The BSA receives funding from most of the top software companies but appears to be most heavily funded by Microsoft. And, according to Antel's information technology manager, Ricardo Tascenho, the company settled the matter by signing a "special agreement" with Microsoft to replace all of its software with Microsoft products...." Happy happy joy joy. Microsoft saves a pirate by assimilating it. Resistance is futile. You will sell NT. :( =====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos============== .+.^.+.| Ray Arachelian |Prying open my 3rd eye. So good to see |./|\. ..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were |/\|/\ <--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run |\/|\/ ../|\..| "A toast to Odin, |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/. .+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were.... |..... ======================= http://www.sundernet.com ========================== From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "William H. Geiger III" Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 02:16:27 +0800 To: Ray Arachelian Subject: Re: fwd: The Swedes discover Lotus Notes has key escrow! (Win Treese) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801061821.NAA16341@users.invweb.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In , on 01/06/98 at 12:11 PM, Ray Arachelian said: >Lotus, a subsidiary of the American computer giant IBM, has negotiated a >special solution to the problem. Lotus gets to export strong >cryptography with the requirement that vital parts of the secret keys are >deposited with the U.S. government. ``The difference between the >American Notes version and the export version lies in degrees of >encryption. We deliver 64 bit keys to all customers, but 24 bits of >those in the version that we deliver outside of the United States are >deposited with the American government. That's how it works today,'' >says Eileen Rudden, vice president at Lotus. I have 2 problems with this outside of the fact they are doing it: 1) 64 bits is too weak. 2) why should we trust them that it is only the export versions they are giving the 24bit to the government on?? Yet *another* reason not to use Lotus Bloats. - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a-sha1 Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBNLJ0AY9Co1n+aLhhAQH/ugP/c98Sq7gCiXV8P045MyJZbcGmJGmD1IeX SgQAhCrThv8bmou+stgJfoYClaDQ1ozbyGyCuJXgCgp/AHhUjEuDLGxIgAzRTuHX V3vNSvNhW3FHMVSG1+UGylchaZzwhyo036frJrc3zxGXPGY142Y1BEW+4Zeoa1NN YPw0QYYnxnY= =k6PK -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Ray Arachelian Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 01:12:53 +0800 To: cypherpunks MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain (From the SpyKing Security Mailing list) 2)From: Mike G Subject: Lotus Privacy Problems This was taken from the Computer Privacy Digest 1/4/98 V12#00 Very interesting. The Swedes discover Lotus Notes has key escrow! (Win Treese) The article describes the reaction when various people in the Swedish government learned that the Lotus Notes system they were using includes key escrow. They were apparently unaware of this until Notes was in use by thousands of people in government and industry. Besides being an interesting reaction to key escrow systems, this incident reminds us that one should understand the real security of a system.... Secret Swedish E-Mail Can Be Read by the U.S.A. Fredrik Laurin, Calle Froste, *Svenska Dagbladet*, 18 Nov 1997 One of the world's most widely used e-mail programs, the American Lotus Notes, is not so secure as most of its 400,000 to 500,000 Swedish users believe. To be sure, it includes advanced cryptography in its e-mail function, but the codes that protect the encryption have been surrendered to American authorities. With them, the U.S. government can decode encrypted information. Among Swedish users are 349 parliament members, 15,000 tax agency employees, as well as employees in large businesses and the defense department. ``I didn't know that our Notes keys were deposited (with the U.S.). It was interesting to learn this,'' says Data Security Chief Jan Karlsson at the [Swedish] our Notes keys were deposited (with the U.S.). It was interesting to learn this,'' says Data Security Chief Jan Karlsson at the [Swedish] defense department. Gunnar Grenfors, Parliament director and daily e-mail user, says, ``I didn't know about this--here we handle sensitive information concerning Sweden's interests, and we should not leave the keys to this information to the U.S. government or anyone else. This must be a basic requirement.'' Sending information over the Internet is like sending a postcard--it's that simple to read these communications. When e-mail is encrypted, it becomes unintelligible for anyone who captures it during transport. Only those who have the right codes or raw computer power to break the encryption can read it. For crime prevention and national security reasons, the United States has tough regulations concerning the level of crytography that may be exported. Both large companies and intelligence agencies can already--in a fractions of a second--break the simpler cryptographic protections. For the world-leading American computer industry, cryptographic export controls are therefore an ever greater obstacle. This slows down utilization of the Internet by businesses because companies outside the U.S.A. do not dare to send important information over the Internet. On the other hand, the encryption that may be used freely within the U.S.A. is substantially more secure. Lotus, a subsidiary of the American computer giant IBM, has negotiated a special solution to the problem. Lotus gets to export strong cryptography with the requirement that vital parts of the secret keys are deposited with the U.S. government. ``The difference between the American Notes version and the export version lies in degrees of encryption. We deliver 64 bit keys to all customers, but 24 bits of those in the version that we deliver outside of the United States are deposited with the American government. That's how it works today,'' says Eileen Rudden, vice president at Lotus. Those 24 bits are critical for security in the system. 40-bit encryption is broken by a fast computer in several seconds, while 64 bits is much more time-consuming to break if one does not have the 24 bits [table omitted]. Lotus cannot answer as to which authorities have received the keys and what rules apply for giving them out. The company has confidence that the American authorities responsible for this have full control over the keys and can ensure that they will not be misused. On the other hand, this (assurance) does not matter to Swedish companies. On the contrary, there is a growing understanding that it would be an unacceptable security risk to place the corporation's own ``master key'' in the hands of foreign authorities. Secret information can leak or be spread through, for example, court decisions in other countries. These concerns are demonstrated clearly in a survey by the SAF Trade and Industry security delegation. Some 60 companies answered the survey. They absolutely do not want keys deposited in the U.S.A. It is business secrets they are protecting. These corporations fear that anyone can get a hold of this information, states Claes Blomqvist at SAF. Swedish businesses are also afraid of leaks within the American authorities. The security chief at SKF, Lars Lungren, states: ``If one has a lawful purpose for having control over encryption, it isn't a problem. But the precept is flawed: They ought to monitor (internally), but the Americans now act as if there are no crooks working within their authorities.'' In some countries, intelligence agencies clearly have taken a position on their country's trade and industry. Such is the case in France. One example, which French authorities chose to publicize, was in 1995 when five CIA agents were deported after having spied on a French telecommunications company. Win Treese [The Lotus Notes crypto scheme is one that I have familiarly been calling ``64 40 or fight!'' (in a reference to a slogan for an early U.S. election campaign border-dispute issue many years ago. PGN] From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Pearson Shane Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 09:46:32 +0800 To: "'Steve Schear'" Subject: RE: Location Escrow anyone ? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Hi All, > >> 800 MHz analog may be the most difficult. GSM perhaps can reach 500 meteres >>under ideal conditions >> (Andreas Bogk). IS-95/CDMA probably a bit better than GSM due to the very >>high data (chip) rate and >> spread spectrum's better multipath characteristics, although the system's >>multipath performance most >> improves communications not ranging (Phil Karn, Qualcomm). > > >GSM doesn't use spread spectrum? > >Either way, I'd imagine that the accurate time domain division used with GSM >would provide >the Telco's with something a lot better than 500 meters. > >Some cells where I live aren't much further apart than 500 meters. :) > >Bye for now. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Andy Dustman Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 01:43:05 +0800 To: "William H. Geiger III" Subject: Re: PGP-out-only vs. hashcash aware remailers? In-Reply-To: <199801061630.LAA15383@users.invweb.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, William H. Geiger III wrote: > In , on > 01/05/98 > at 11:14 AM, Andy Dustman said: > > >A couple problems: PGP (2.6.x) doesn't seem to have an option to only > >de-armor > > PGP -da [filename] Well that would help a lot, then. Find the begin and end headers for the PGP message, pipe it into pgp -da, throw away the output, check the exit code, which should be set if the armor was invalid (or perhaps look at stderr). Like I said, though, you could still make the armor valid by correctly calculating the CRC, or even make PGP generate the armor with the insult/flames/whatever in the output (just a matter of shifting some bits around before armoring, could be done in perl). But this is certainly not worth worrying about. Andy Dustman / Computational Center for Molecular Structure and Design For a great anti-spam procmail recipe, send me mail with subject "spam". Append "+spamsucks" to my username to ensure delivery. KeyID=0xC72F3F1D Encryption is too important to leave to the government. -- Bruce Schneier http://www.athens.net/~dustman mailto:andy@neptune.chem.uga.edu <}+++< -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: noconv iQEPAwUBNLJsUBOPBZTHLz8dAQFd8wfQhU4uMzLL8zHUXtHSeBLdHYPe66h6ZNw7 aMHntK3fz+6ZkpiTLb/iqGZKNm6pSueXz3CxbIytbTS+IwFpgRpZX/w2gz1Jw2hh tRiB9pCIXSlnV5E9K5fsREZRGlRyj82J6n2yjrTOQWLlW+piAopbBz20ShyELBaA HbygYVmbtqH0Q5aHXO6xVfz6odP0UQB3RblpVZr/Zl99tbbL9mZ5g8CMgcOf57Jq kORo+q4FTo8DhC7KfOs4oqIcsj+yKsX7qwANMd9RTl+6YXsqcV6A/jf2g3v1Q3wQ 1Oggz1gWNXn3+d2RSuIrCFEoUpLHIfMk4pMv8tH/Ikuaag== =869+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 04:46:31 +0800 To: Adam Back Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 11:08 AM -0800 1/6/98, Adam Back wrote: >it looks more like Jim was suggesting that free market forces would >tend to prevent deaths of lesser known people. Think about it -- it >would be dead easy to get a contract on Barney due to the number of >people who know and hate him -- but on an average neighbor, who is >completely obscure, you'd easily have to fund the entire bet yourself. The weakness of Bell's scheme was always that it only worked (so to speak) with well-known people. While there are some who want well-known people dead, most murders-for-hire happen for personal or financial reasons. Given untraceable payment systems, and buttressed with untraceable escrow systems, a much more efficient approach is simply to hire the killers untraceably. And the fluff about "picking the death date" is a side issue, one which merely makes the whole thing more cumbersome. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 04:50:48 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Ray Ozzie and the Lotus Notes "40 + 24" GAK Hack In-Reply-To: <199801061930.NAA09848@wire.insync.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 11:30 AM -0800 1/6/98, Eric Cordian wrote: >Could someone poke through Lotus Notes with a debugger and see exactly how >this "giving 24 bits to the government" is implemented? > >Most commercial software simply introduces redundancy in order to limit >the keyspace to 40 bits, regardless of the advertised length of the key. >This claim that they deliver 64 bits of key to the customer seems a bit >bogus. > >Of course, they could have done something clever, like generating a >completely random 64 bit key, and then encrypting 24 bits of it with a >giant government-owned RSA public key, and including this additional >information with each message. However, it seems unlikely that they would >employ such strong encryption for message recovery, while offering only 64 >bits for message encryption. > >Is Lotus Notes encryption documented anywhere? Are the differences >between the export and domestic versions disclosed to overseas customers? Ray Ozzie, founder of Iris, the company which developed Notes and sold it to Lotus, discussed his "40 + 24" hack a couple of years ago. It was met with much derision in the community. (He sent me a nice letter explaining his motivations for the 40 + 24 hack, but I was of course unconvinced. BTW, my recollection was that they were trying to get the industry to adopt this as a way of satisfying _domestic_ calls for GAK, not just for export to those dumb Swedes :-}). --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 05:02:22 +0800 To: Declan McCullagh Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 11:11 AM -0800 1/6/98, Declan McCullagh wrote: >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 11:10:49 -0800 (PST) >From: Declan McCullagh >To: fight-censorship-announce@vorlon.mit.edu >Subject: ACM conference on computer-related policy (DC, 5/98) > >[The best policy for the Net is probably no policy, or at most a hands-off >one. We don't have national "policies" for how we should regulate, for >example, newspapers or bookstores, and we don't need such policies for the >Net. On universal service, we already have Internet connections that are >cheaper than cable TV; on copyright, the safest course is to let federal >courts decide; on crypto, most agree that the current "policy" is >misguided at best. --Declan] > >*************** > > ASSOCIATION FOR COMPUTING (ACM) ANNUAL CONFERENCE > > * * * POLICY98 * * * > "Shaping Policy in the Information Age" > > Washington, DC, Renaissance Hotel > May 10-12, 1998 .. Jeez, don't these Beltway Bandits _ever_ get tired of holding these bullshit little conferences? It seems every month or so there's one of these b.s. things. Must be a way to justify their existence. "Shaping Policy in the Information Age." Give me a break. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Declan McCullagh Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 05:14:50 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Rep. Sonny Bono (R-California) dies at 62 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain ************ http://cgi.pathfinder.com/netly/afternoon/0,1012,1670,00.html The Netly News / Afternoon Line January 6, 1998 When Sonny Turns to Blue Rep. Sonny Bono, a Congressman better known for his songwriting than his lawmaking, died yesterday in a skiing accident. He was 62. Bono built his show-biz career on being the butt of Cher's jokes and found that he played a similar role in Washington, a town where self-deprecation is reviled, not admired. Washingtonian magazine once dubbed him the dumbest member of Congress, and commentators criticized his informal approach to lawmaking on the buttoned-down House Judiciary committee, on which the California Republican tackled Internet legislation. Early last year he staunchly opposed the FBI's demands for increased government snooping power but then backed down. He told me in September that at first he had not been "aware" of the details surrounding the encryption debate and there are others "we have to be concerned about." Bono also sponsored H.R. 1621 and H.R. 2589, two copyright extension bills currently being considered by Congress. --Declan McCullagh/Washington From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Declan McCullagh Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 02:10:16 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Gadget Warfare, from the Netly News Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain ********* http://cgi.pathfinder.com/netly/opinion/0,1042,1669,00.html The Netly News (http://netlynews.com/) January 6, 1998 Gadget Warfare by Declan McCullagh (declan@well.com) For a country with no real military rivals, the U.S. still manages to find an amazing number of enemies. Terrorists top the list of anti-American villains, according to a Pentagon report released last month. The 100-page document, called "Responses to Transnational Threats," describes how the military should respond to the threat of saboteurs and bombers aiming for violence, not victory. The solution, according to the Pentagon, is to develop a set of gadgets that would make even James Bond jealous: * STICKY ELECTRONICS Think SpiderMan's spidertracers, only smaller. "Sticky electronics" adhere to a suspected terrorist's clothing, hair, luggage or vehicle and report his location. These almost microscopic gizmos tune in to satellite signals and transmit their exact latitude and longitude. "To conserve battery (and mission life) they would respond only when" activated by a radio signal, the Pentagon says. And if you're the suspicious type, sprinkle some in your spouse's underwear. * DATA MINING If you worried about the FBI's jones for access to your data, wait 'til you find out what the military hopes to do. The Pentagon wants authority to sift through private-sector databases in hopes of tracking down, say, the World Trade Center bombers before they strike. The plan is to incorporate "real-time data on international border crossings, real-time cargo manifests, global financial transactions and the global network carrying international airline ticket manifests." As new private-sector databases are developed, "the baseline system would be augmented so that the correlation and fusion process becomes more automated." But the benefits of invading everyone's privacy are dubious: It's hard to imagine the alleged Unabomber, for instance, showing up in computer files. [...] From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jonathan Wienke Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 05:35:36 +0800 To: Wei Dai Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980106131052.00745004@popd.netcruiser> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 At 12:51 AM 1/6/98 -0800, Wei Dai wrote: >I don't understand why there is so much talk about guns here lately. >Unless someone comes up with a weapon that has some very unusual economic >properties, individuals cannot hope to compete with governments in the >domain of deadly force. If we have to resort to physical violence, we've >already lost! > >Think about it: if we can defend ourselves with guns, why would we need >crypto? InfoWar has always been a critical component of MeatWar. Knowing who your enemy is and where he is at makes it much easier to do something about him. Intelligence (in the military sense) and the tools to deny it to your enemy (strong crypto) are of equal importance to weapons. If you know that a homicidal Postal Service employee is standing outside your front door and is preparing to blast it off its hinges and then kill you, this intelligence will do nothing but raise your blood pressure if you have no weapons with which to deal with the situation. (Calling 911 isn't going to help you much.) If you own several "assault weapons", but are asleep in the living room when the door comes crashing down, the lack of intel will greatly reduce the effectiveness of said weapons. I have an equation for this: Effectiveness = Intelligence * Force * Will. I define force as the theoretical ability to inflict damage on an opponent, whether via bad PR, propaganda, lethal or nonlethal weapons, or any other means. Force has 2 components: Materiel and Skill. Thus, Force = Materiel * Skill. (Example: If I own a riot shotgun and appropriate ammunition, and have taken it to the range and familiarized myself with its use, I have the theoretical ability to shoot the aforementioned Homicidal Postal Employee, but mere ownership of the weapon and skill in its use does not guarantee that outcome.) Will is simply the will to fight if necessary. Although government will always have a higher Force factor than an individual or "the cypherpunks" or a militia, it can be possible to achieve a higher Effectiveness score via higher Intelligence and/or Will factors. This is how we lost the war in Vietnam. We had a much higher Force level than the VC, comparable Intelligence levels, but a much lower Will ratio (at least at the upper decision-making levels). Because of this, our Force assets were bound under all sorts of bizarre restrictions which hampered their usefulness, and we ultimately left in defeat. By disseminating a mechanism for increasing the Cypherpunks Force level (the Assassination Politics essay) and annoying some IRS agents with a stinkbomb, Jim Bell increased the government's Will to capture and incarcerate him. This is the problem with with terrorism in general (the OKC bombing is a prime example). If either Intelligence (the domain of crypto) or Force (the domain of weapons) is zero, Effectiveness (the real-world ability to inflict damage or defend yourself from damage) is also zero. Ignoring either can be costly. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Business Security 5.5 iQA/AwUBNLKd2sJF0kXqpw3MEQJMDACfbGNLIqwE57SxitK5ZDDc/JuWn1YAniO0 MxsO+BZXi+DWL9URMyOj+dzr =s/B9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Jonathan Wienke PGP Key Fingerprints: 7484 2FB7 7588 ACD1 3A8F 778A 7407 2928 3312 6597 8258 9A9E D9FA 4878 C245 D245 EAA7 0DCC "If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains set lightly upon you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." -- Samuel Adams "Stupidity is the one arena of of human achievement where most people fulfill their potential." -- Jonathan Wienke Never sign a contract that contains the phrase "first-born child." When the government fears the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny. RSA export-o-matic: print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 02:31:45 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Jim Bell article excerpt (Was: Letter on Jim Bell) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I wrote this last summer: [...] Then Assassination Politics sent the IRS into a tizzy. Jeffrey Gordon, an inspector in the IRS' Internal Security Division, widened the investigation immediately. He detailed in an 10-page affidavit how he traced Bell's use of allegedly fraudulent Social Security Numbers, how he learned that Bell had been arrested in 1989 for "manufacturing a controlled substance," how he found out that Bell possessed the home addresses of a handful of IRS agents. Gordon's conclusion? Bell planned "to overthrow the government." The IRS investigator said in his affidavit that Bell's "essay details an illegal scheme by Bell which involves plans to assassinate IRS and other government officials... I believe that Bell has begun taking steps to carry out his Assassination Politics plan." But for all Gordon's bluster in court documents, he had no proof that Bell broke the law. He didn't even have enough evidence to arrest the prolific essayist -- at least not yet. After the April 1 raid, Gordon and a team of IRS agents worked to assemble a case against Bell. They pored through the hard drives of the three computers they seized. They scrutinized documents from Bell's house. They interrogated his friends. They listened to tape recordings of the "Multnomah County Common Law Court." They scoured the Net for mentions of Assassination Politics. Six weeks later they felt their case was complete. --- IRS agents arrested Bell on May 16 and charged him with obstructing government employees and using false Social Security numbers. Now, this is hardly attempting "to overthrow the government." But government agents insist Bell is far more dangerous than the charges suggest. (The judge seemed to agree: at the time of this writing, Bell is being held without bail.) The latest IRS documents filed with the court label Bell a terrorist. They claim he talked about sabotaging the computers in Portland, Oregon's 911 center, contaminating a local water supply with a botulism toxin, extracting a poison called Ricin from castor beans, and manufacturing Sarin nerve gas. He allegedly bought and tested some of the chemicals. "Bell has taken overt steps to implement his overall plan by devising, obtaining, and testing the materials needed to carry out attacks against the United States, including chemicals, nerve agents, destructive carbon fibers, firearms, and explosives," the complaint says. But what really got the IRS in a stink was what happened a month after they seized Bell's car. The complaint says: "On March 16, 1997, a Sunday, an IRS employee noted a strong odor in the Federal building. On March 17, 1997, several IRS employees had to be placed on leave due to the odor, and another employee reported other ill effects. The odor was traced to a mat and carpeting... just outside the IRS office entrance." The chemical proved to be "mercaptan," with which Bell's friends say he doused an adversary's law office in the early 1980s. Yet if Bell was a crypto-terrorist, he was a singularly idle one. This is a problem with the IRS' accusations: if true, they prove too much. If Bell was bent on toppling the government, and his exploits date back from the early 1980s, why are they such laughably juvenile and ineffectual ones? Stink-bombing offices isn't a Federal felony, nor should it be. "I would've thought this would be 'malicious mischief,' at most," Tim May, one of the founders of the cypherpunks, writes. "People who've done far, far, far worse are left unprosecuted in every major jurisdiction in this country. The meat thrown to the media -- the usual AP stuff, mixed in with 'radical libertarian' descriptions -- is just to make the case more media-interesting... It sure looks like they're trying to throw a bunch of charges against the wall and hope that some of them stick -- or scare Bell into pleading to a lesser charge." Since his arrest, the denizens of the cypherpunks list, where Bell introduced and refined his ideas, have become generally sympathetic. Gone is the snarling derision, the attacks on his ideas as too extreme. Now a sense of solidarity has emerged. One 'punk wrote: "I have decided that I cannot in good conscience allow Jim Bell's persecution for exercising his basic human right to free speech to pass by without taking personal action to support him." --- When I talked to Bell a few days before his arrest, he spoke calmly and with little rancor about the pending investigation. I couldn't tell how he felt after being raided and interrogated by his arch-enemy, the IRS. But imagine continuously railing on the Net against jackbooted thugs, then having real ones bash down your front door. Bell was most interested in talking up Assassination Politics and predicting how it would eventually blossom. He had just published an op-ed in a local newspaper saying "the whole corrupt system" could be stopped. "Whatever my idea is, it's not silly. There are a lot of adjectives you can use, but not silly," he told me. "I feel that the mere fact of having such a debate will cause people to realize that they no longer have to tolerate the governments they previously had to tolerate. At that point I think politicians will slink away like they did in eastern Europe in 1989. They'll have lost the war." He told me why he became convinced that the government needed to be lopped off at the knees. Bell's epiphany came after he ordered a chemical from a supply firm and was arrested when he failed to follow EPA regulations. "That radicalized me," he said. "That pissed me off. I figured I'd get back at them by taking down their entire system. That's how I'd do it."' Moral issues aside, one of the problems plaguing Bell's scheme is that it's not limited to eliminating "government thugs who violate your rights," as he likes to describe it. If it existed, anyone with some spare change could wipe out a nosy neighbor or even an irritating grocery store clerk. After I pointed this out to Bell on the phone, he fired email back a few days later saying, "Assuming a functioning Assassination Politics system, nothing stops you from contributing to my death." He suggested that maybe assassins would develop scruples: "You'd be able to purchase deaths of unworthy people, but it might be only at a dramatically higher price. Doable but not particularly economical." [...] -Declan From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Eric Cordian Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 03:35:58 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Silly Shrinkwrapped Encryption Message-ID: <199801061930.NAA09848@wire.insync.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Could someone poke through Lotus Notes with a debugger and see exactly how this "giving 24 bits to the government" is implemented? Most commercial software simply introduces redundancy in order to limit the keyspace to 40 bits, regardless of the advertised length of the key. This claim that they deliver 64 bits of key to the customer seems a bit bogus. Of course, they could have done something clever, like generating a completely random 64 bit key, and then encrypting 24 bits of it with a giant government-owned RSA public key, and including this additional information with each message. However, it seems unlikely that they would employ such strong encryption for message recovery, while offering only 64 bits for message encryption. Is Lotus Notes encryption documented anywhere? Are the differences between the export and domestic versions disclosed to overseas customers? -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law" From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Eric Cordian Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 03:53:41 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: Silly Shrinkwrapped Encryption In-Reply-To: <199801061930.NAA09848@wire.insync.net> Message-ID: <199801061949.NAA09879@wire.insync.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain To follow up my prior message... I managed to find a document entitled "Security in Lotus Notes and the Internet" on the Web. It describes the weakening procedure as follows. "No matter which version of Notes you are using, encryption uses the full 64-bit key size. However, the International edition takes 24 bits of the key and encrypts it using an RSA public key for which the US National Security Agency holds the matching private key. This encrypted portion of the key is then sent with each message as an additional field, the workfactor reduction field. The net result of this is that an illegitimate hacker has to tackle 64-bit encryption, which is at or beyond the practical limit for current decryption technology and hardware. The US government, on the other hand, only has to break a 40-bit key space, which is much easier (2 to the power of 24 times easier, to be precise)." Would anyone care to extract the modulus and exponent for the NSA's Lotus Notes helper key and post it to this newsgroup? -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law" From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Declan McCullagh Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 06:02:41 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: YAIPC (Yet Another Internet Policy Conference, 2/98) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:30:57 -0500 From: Ben Isaacson To: "'declan@well.com'" Subject: Would you consider forwarding this as well? --> WashingtonWeb Internet Policy Forum More info at http://www.washingtonweb.org and http://www.interactivehq.org Interactive Industry Leaders and Top Policy Makers to Meet at WashingtonWeb Internet Policy Forum Washington, DC -- With the mounting interest of Washington in the Internet, key policy makers and Internet industry executives will come together for a strategic discussion about the impact of politics on the Internet. Sponsored by the Association for Interactive Media, the WashingtonWeb Internet Policy Forum, February 9 and 10, 1998, is the premier top-level meeting between the Washington policy community and the leaders of the new media industry. "Internet executives and government officials come from very different backgrounds. There needs to be an on- going dialogue between the users and regulators of this powerful medium in order to ensure that businesses may continue to grow and serve the public. The WashingtonWeb Internet Policy Forum is designed to facilitate this discussion," said Andy Sernovitz, President of the Association for Interactive Media. Currently, over 300 Members of Congress have co- sponsored bills regulating interactive businesses. Federal regulatory agencies including the FCC, FTC, NTIA, Treasury, Federal Reserve, White House Office of Technology Assessment, and the Patent and Trademark Office, are considering new legislation and regulation. Commerce on the Net will be forever shaped by the dozens of bills, regulations, and policy directives that are already on the table. Participants will have the opportunity to interact with the very legislators and regulators who will make these decisions. A partial list of topics to be discussed at WashingtonWeb include: Pending Legislation and Regulation: The Industry Response; Potential Expansion of FTC and FCC Jurisdictions; Taxing the Internet; Beltway Wonks vs. Web Gurus; Consumer Concerns and Industry Self-Regulation. Speakers (to date) include: Representative Rick Boucher; Adam Theirer, Heritage Foundation; Adam Clayton Powell III, The Freedom Forum; Pete DuPont, IntellectualCapital.com.; Robin Raskin, Editor & Publisher, Family PC Magazine; Kenneth Dotson, CBS Sportsline; and Gordon Ross, NetNanny. Sponsors include: Manatt, Phelps & Phillips, Policy.com, CNN/Time All Politics, Net Nanny, IntellectualCapital.com, and Exodus Communications. The WashingtonWeb Internet Policy Forum will be held February 9 and 10, 1998, at the Willard intercontinental Hotel in Washington, DC. CONTACT: Andy Dotson Association for Interactive Media 202-408-0008 andy@interactivehq.org http://www.washingtonweb.org ___________________________________________________ This message was sent to you because your company is a member of the Association for Interactive Media. Visit our web site: http://www.interactivehq.org AIM never releases email addresses to third parties. To SUBSCRIBE or CHANGE YOUR ADDRESS, email a note to yasha@interactivehq.org To UNSUBSCRIBE, forward this message to: unsubscribe-members@lists.interactivehq.org [staff@interactivehq.org] ___END____________________________________________ List server provided by Lyris -- http://www.lyris.com From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Declan McCullagh Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 06:13:21 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Question on U.S. Postal Service and crypto Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain This is for a story for Time on the "new" U.S .Postal Service. I vaguely recall the USPS trying to set digital signature standards and/or serve as a CA. I'd like to mention this. Can't remember the details, though. Does anyone have 'em (or a pointer to them) handy? -Declan From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Information Security Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 03:19:53 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: cypherpunks and guns Message-ID: <199801061912.OAA08946@panix2.panix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Ryan Lackey # AOLserver (a nice web server formerly from GNN/navisoft) punted their # 128bit SSL module distribution *EVEN TO US CITIZENS* due to commerce # department fuckedness. Anyone know where I could get a copy? It would # really suck to have to patch the 40bit one into a 128bit version, since # they do not distribute source. I don't know if this is the "module" form of the answer you want: http://www.replay.com/ Download Netscape Communicator 4.04 with 128 bits SSL today on: ftp.replay.com Replay Associates distributes this software so you can safely conduct your E-commerce ---- Tim May wrote: > Final comment: If I find the motivation, I may finish an essay I've been > working on about how we, the Cypherpunks and the World, are *retrogressing* > in crypto areas. Most of the exotic applications are no longer being > discussed, and various mundane commercial products are the main focus. > Yawn. How about moving this list to encrypt its transmissions in the recipient's public keys, just to begin encrypting Net traffic? Obviously not to hide what is being said, but simply to start moving communications into the encrypted realm. That way, we'll build up the software tools for handling this, and try to get other lists to do the same. Maybe encourage all pro-crypto people to use it for all email to as many other people they talk with as possible. (Adopt two others...) Heh: a white-list to allow only encrypted messages through. Encourage Senators to set up public keys. In general, try to get the general flow of traffic encrypted, even if PGP is "mundane" these days. Solving the human factors problem of getting its use wide-spread is _not_ a mundane problem. Encryption ain't gonna be that useful if only a few in-the-know use it. ---guy From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Ian Sparkes Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 23:11:52 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: cypherpunks and guns In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980106144257.006f0fec@q9f47.dmst02.telekom.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 At 05:28 06.01.98 -0500, Ryan Lackey wrote: > (Wei Dai) writes: > >> I don't understand why there is so much talk about guns here lately. >> Unless someone comes up with a weapon that has some very unusual economic >> properties, individuals cannot hope to compete with governments in the >> domain of deadly force. If we have to resort to physical violence, we've >> already lost! >> >> Think about it: if we can defend ourselves with guns, why would we need >> crypto? > >I am fairly certain that as an irregular army soldier I could inflict >a substantial amount of damage upon an occupying military. With maybe >$20k in equipment and several hundred hours of training, you could make >life very difficult for any luckless squad that happens your way. Multiply >that by 100 million armed citizens and you see that armed civilian >resistance *can* defeat an occupying army. > I'm not sure I am convinced by this argument. The "enemy within" seems to be the main focus of the discussions in the CP list. When the 'luckless squad that happens your way' is manned by your countrymen at the command of their (and your) government, what then? As far as I can see, the result would be a *very* bloody civil war. The outcome may indeed be less obvious than in a 'conventional' (i.e. unarmed populace) civil war, but the cost much higher. This is from the standpoint of a 'sissy' European. I admit I am poorly equipped to comment on the American Zeitgeist. However, my experience of civil war victims (refugees from the E-bloc) suggests that we should be concentrating on social revolution before we tool up for military. There is more to be won, with a potentially much lower cost. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 Charset: noconv iQA/AwUBNLImc4n3W0ooQnZKEQL4VwCffzMNK1MfQ/1zMv+E/3dfoioc8e8AoL0d uZMzgq6LPu9nVe90kcA49cbG =yL/D -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: David Honig Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 07:07:41 +0800 To: Jonathan Wienke Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980106145505.007b45a0@otc.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 01:10 PM 1/6/98 -0800, Jonathan Wienke wrote: >InfoWar has always been a critical component of MeatWar. Knowing who your >enemy is and where he is at makes it much easier to do something about him. Yep. Also, infoWar also includes psychops: propoganda and disinformation. During WWII, the largest RF transmitter in the world at the time (a GE 500Kwtt) was used to dishearten troops, incite civilians, mislead commanders, etc. Effectively. Sometimes it jammed known broadcasts; sometimes the PSYCHOPS stations identified themselves correctly, more often they claimed to be something they weren't. When everyone can publish c/overtly, it is harder to control the media; the trade off is that consumers have to think to filter. Not a bad deal. Orwell was an optimist. ------------------------------------------------------------ David Honig Orbit Technology honig@otc.net Intaanetto Jigyoubu "How do you know you are not being deceived?" ---A Compendium of Analytic TradeCraft Notes, Directorate of Intelligence, CIA From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Blanc Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 08:33:24 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Digital Societies, Guns, and AP Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980106163317.0068dc1c@cnw.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched The conversations on guns, Wei Dai's statement "if we can defend ourselves with guns, why would we need crypto?", and this idea on Digital Societies, brings up a consideration: in the new digital age of anonymity, independent psyops ("psychological operations"; never heard of "psychops"), potential AP arrangements, etc., when governments are made obsolete sometime Real Soon, and people have to depend more and more upon their own resources, how will individuals defend themselves from _immediate_ physical aggression, if not by having their own personal stock pile of weapons and ammo, since they can't call upon the Centralized Gun & Ammo Depot? I remember an article in a book by Ayn Rand, on "Competing Governments", where she said that having services provided by more than one such defense service would create many problems, and provided arguments against the feasability of such arrangements. I know there have been references on the list in the past about some civilization along time ago which existed in Iceland which dealt with this, but I haven't got around to reading about it (can someone provide a book reference?). .. Blanc From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Ian Sparkes Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 00:15:58 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com Subject: Re: cypherpunks and guns Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980106170810.006f0ff8@q9f47.dmst02.telekom.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 05:28 06.01.98 -0500, Ryan Lackey wrote: > (Wei Dai) writes: > >> I don't understand why there is so much talk about guns here lately. >> Unless someone comes up with a weapon that has some very unusual economic >> properties, individuals cannot hope to compete with governments in the >> domain of deadly force. If we have to resort to physical violence, we've >> already lost! >> >> Think about it: if we can defend ourselves with guns, why would we need >> crypto? > >I am fairly certain that as an irregular army soldier I could inflict >a substantial amount of damage upon an occupying military. With maybe >$20k in equipment and several hundred hours of training, you could make >life very difficult for any luckless squad that happens your way. Multiply >that by 100 million armed citizens and you see that armed civilian >resistance *can* defeat an occupying army. > I'm not sure I am convinced by this argument. The "enemy within" seems to be the main focus of the discussions in the CP list. When the 'luckless squad that happens your way' is manned by your countrymen at the command of their (and your) government, what then? Will you still attempt to defeat the 'occupying army'? As far as I can see, the result would be a *very* bloody civil war. The outcome may indeed be less obvious than in a 'conventional' (i.e. unarmed populace) civil war, but the cost much higher. Bear in mind that this is from the standpoint of a 'sissy' European. I admit I am poorly equipped to comment on the American Zeitgeist. However, my experience of civil war victims (extensive contact with refugees from the E-bloc) suggests to me that we should be concentrating on social revolution before we tool up for a military one. There is more to be won, with a potentially much lower cost. By all means buy the hardware, that is after all your right. Just spare the hero talk. *Everyone* thinks they'll be one of the survivors in a war, just as 95% of the population believe they have an above average IQ. My understanding of the word 'revolution' in this context means realigning the opinions of the governments and peoples around the globe to allow freedoms such as those supported by Cypherpunks to be freely available. An example of this is to work against the misinformation spread by 'them' which leads the average Joe (dumb or not) to think that 'Encrypted Data = Child Porn/Drug Barons planning something big/More child porn'. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Mark Hedges Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 09:51:40 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: employment opportunity Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain A tech support position's opened at Infonex and the Anonymizer in the San Diego, California area. The job requires demonstrable unix, typing and English communication skills. C/C++, Perl, Java/Javascript, system administration and networking experience are secondary qualifications. Duties include routine technical support and occasional clerical tasks, and could include opportunity for future advancement based on skills. Wage based on skillset. Entry-level position. If interested, fax resume to 619-667-7966 or e-mail to job@infonex.com. Mark Hedges Anonymizer, Inc. Infonex Internet, Inc. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Nobuki Nakatuji" Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 10:20:02 +0800 To: daw@cs.berkeley.edu Subject: Re: Is FEAL developed by NTT safe? Message-ID: <19980107020417.23803.qmail@hotmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > >In article <19980105070034.3946.qmail@hotmail.com> you write: >> Is FEAL developed by NTT safe? Where isn't safe if it is here because it >> isn't safe? > >FEAL is dead; I wouldn't ever use it in any new product. >Use triple-DES instead. > What kind of method was FEAL decoded in? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: jalonz@openworld.com Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 07:21:12 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: The Digital Society Group Message-ID: <85256584.007B1AC7.00@openworld.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Hi all, Openworld, Inc. is a company which sets up free enterprise zones around the world. The "free zones" are akin to Hong Kong and Singapore and are self-governing, independent entities as recognized by the parent country. Free zones usually have the ability to issue citizenship, business licenses and incorporation status to entities as well as have their own police force and arbitration structure. A lot of them are not nearly big enough to need that kind of independence, but there are a few. Free zones rarely have bureacracy, taxes, etc. because the idea is to create an environment for the rapid creation and deployment of new businesses. Land is leased for 50-100 years with a parent entity buy-back at the end of the term. Can anyone say corporate state? Basically, free zones are corporations (or groups of) leasing land from a country in order to make it valuable enough to sell back at a large profit in 100 years. Notice that the emphasis is on very long-term results. The free zone only makes money if the residents are happy, educated and making money. Environmental issues are addressed immediately. There is no bureacracy to hold things back. I'll be the first to agree that a corporate state is very easy to abuse (soon the world could end up being a Microsoft corporate state ). But you have to start somewhere. Most of these zones are created in third world countries and poorly developed areas. Free zones are exempt from telecommunications monopolies so the bandwidth and connection fees are at regular US wholesale market rates. When you consider that the economy is moving to be information and bandwidth dependent, and the main thing holding a new country back is the cost of a satellite feed, a free zone has enormous impact on the growth of an area. It is a bit mind-boggling to realize what the marriage of a free economic zone and the Internet can accomplish. Openworld, Inc. is developing drop-in modules for health, education, business and governance functions for free zones as well as Internet connectivity and infrastructures. A division of Openworld, Inc., The Digital Society Group, has been formed to apply technology to the infrastructure of the free zones and essentially mirror them in cyberspace . Without getting into too much detail, The Digital Society Group is constructing a pure-technology infrastructure to provide for the operation, governance and existence of a complete digital society within a free enterprise zone. My priorities are: 1. encryption for all 2. anonymity for all 3. digital currency for all 4. the ability for the creation of ad-hoc micro-communities by citizens more or less on-the-fly 5. the ability for any entity - hardware, software, etc. to be a citizen and be entitled to certain rights such as property ownership, incorporation,etc. (the legislation is being written right now) 6. do it very, very cheaply and give it to the end-user (the world) for free. Check out: http://www.openworld.com/digitalsociety Sorry about the sparse web pages and the crappy graphics, but there is no money for a graphics designer. Locations are planned for Africa, Southeast Asia, Russia, etc. We are already coding... :) Jalon --------------------------------------------------------------- Jalon Q. Zimmerman, Director The Digital Society Group A division of Openworld, Inc. http://www.openworld.com/digitalsociety jalonz@openworld.com --------------------------------------------------------------- The government is not your mommy. --------------------------------------------------------------- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Bill Stewart Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 13:22:52 +0800 To: Alexandre Maret Subject: Re: Location Escrow anyone ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980106184201.00832180@popd.ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Tracking your position in real time is one thing - recording the tracks is quite another. The system does need to know, in real time, the cell for each phone that's currently talking, and needs to know quickly where any phone that's being called is (could be implemented either by constantly tracking every phone, or by sending out requests when the call is made, probably starting with the usual suspect locations and then branching out farther, or using some kind of roaming notification.) But does it need to know where you've been? It wouldn't be surprising if the telco recorded location (at least cell site) at the beginning of each call, to resolve billing disputes with customers, and of course they record minutes of use and roaming information for users who make calls outside their home territory. They probably also record calls per cell site and handoff information, but probably not by user. For police purposes, if you want to find somebody right now, and the cellphone system can only give you precise locations right now, just call them - "Hey, Suspect! We know where you are, and it's costing you money for us to call you and tell you! Have a nice day!" - and the system knows even if they don't answer. At 02:42 PM 01/03/1998 +0100, Alexandre Maret wrote: >If they store the location of your phone every 3 secs, for 6 month, >this means 5'241'600 locations. Printed on 70 lines/page paper, >this means 74'880 A4 pages. Do you think they'd be happy to print >and send you 74'880 pages for 300SFrs ? They could probably deliver it on industry-standard 9-track tape :-) 5 bytes is enough to locate you within 62m anywhere on Earth - 16 bits gets you 1km of lat or long on a 40000km planet), though 4 bytes is probably enough to identify a cell plus some precision bits since the whole planet doesn't have cell sites. So it's really only 20-25MB of data per user to track that much data, and it compresses extremely well (e.g. 1 byte/sample is plenty for phones that are moving, and run-length coding radically reduces the location of the phones that aren't moving, which probably covers 23 hours a day for most people.) Call it 250KB/day, max? I'd be surprised if they really kept that much, and the economics are bad, but they could do it, and they'll be much happier to mail you a floppy of compressed data for your 300 francs, or print it in very tiny print... Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Adam Back Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 03:27:33 +0800 To: declan@well.com Subject: Re: Jim Bell article excerpt (Was: Letter on Jim Bell) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801061908.TAA00400@server.eternity.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Declan McCullagh writes: Declan reposting something he wrote last year: > After I pointed this out to Bell on the phone [someone might > assassinate annoying neighbors], he fired email back a few days > later saying, "Assuming a functioning Assassination Politics system, > nothing stops you from contributing to my death." He suggested that > maybe assassins would develop scruples: "You'd be able to purchase > deaths of unworthy people, but it might be only at a dramatically > higher price. Doable but not particularly economical." You interpret Jim as implying "maybe assassins would develop scruples"; this doesn't look like the meaning of what you quote Jim as saying: "You'd be able to purchase deaths of unworthy people, but it might be only at a dramatically higher price." it looks more like Jim was suggesting that free market forces would tend to prevent deaths of lesser known people. Think about it -- it would be dead easy to get a contract on Barney due to the number of people who know and hate him -- but on an average neighbor, who is completely obscure, you'd easily have to fund the entire bet yourself. Adam From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 11:16:01 +0800 To: cypherpunks@www.video-collage.com Subject: Police Report Stirs Up Militia Groups Message-ID: <199801070309.VAA08399@manifold.algebra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Police Report Stirs Up Militia Groups (MARTINSVILLE) -- A confidential state police report... which looked at the dangers of right-wing militia groups in Indiana... is causing a stir among elected officials and militia members in Morgan County. While the report discounts any immediate threat of terrorist attacks from Indiana militias, it does suggest that militia members are getting involved in local politics and may have too much influence in some areas. Morgan County commissioners think they're the ones referred to in the report... and they say they're offended at the implication they're controlled by any special interest group. reuters From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Bill Frantz Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 16:50:54 +0800 To: Eric Cordian Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 11:49 AM -0800 1/6/98, Eric Cordian wrote: >I managed to find a document entitled "Security in Lotus Notes and the >Internet" on the Web. > >It describes the weakening procedure as follows. > > "No matter which version of Notes you are using, encryption uses the > full 64-bit key size. However, the International edition takes 24 bits > of the key and encrypts it using an RSA public key for which the US > National Security Agency holds the matching private key. This > encrypted portion of the key is then sent with each message as an > additional field, the workfactor reduction field. The net result of > this is that an illegitimate hacker has to tackle 64-bit encryption, > which is at or beyond the practical limit for current decryption > technology and hardware. The US government, on the other hand, only > has to break a 40-bit key space, which is much easier (2 to the power > of 24 times easier, to be precise)." It seems to me that if you step on the correct part of the message, you zap the encrypted 24 bits, and cut NSA out of the loop. Of course the receiver could notice and refuse to decrypt, which would require some software hacking to defeat, but that is certainly doable. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Frantz | One party wants to control | Periwinkle -- Consulting (408)356-8506 | what you do in the bedroom,| 16345 Englewood Ave. frantz@netcom.com | the other in the boardroom.| Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Adam Back Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 05:37:07 +0800 To: jim@mentat.com Subject: Re: Silly Shrinkwrapped Encryption In-Reply-To: <9801062004.AA18375@mentat.com> Message-ID: <199801062128.VAA00264@server.eternity.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Jim Gillogly writes: > Eric Cordian says: > > Could someone poke through Lotus Notes with a debugger and see exactly how > > this "giving 24 bits to the government" is implemented? > > Lotus produced a "backgrounder" called "Differential Workfactor Cryptography" > when they first promulgated the 64/40 stuff. It says (in part): > > We do that by encrypting 24 of the 64 bits under a public RSA key > provided by the U.S. government and binding the encrypted partial > key to the encrypted data. > > I haven't seen the USG RSA key -- if it's 512 bits, that would be a humorous > next factoring target. It would be humorous to even have the modulus and exponent -- if someone can obtain them, I'll package it up as a working PGP key, and give it user id of Spook GAK key , and submit to the keyservers. Then we have solved the key escrow implementation problems for the US government -- anyone who wants to send them a message can simply add DIRNSA to the list of recipeints. I don't have a copy of Notes, otherwise I thought this a most fun exploit to attempt. The above "solution" to key escrow infra-structure calls from Freeh etc., should be credited to Carl Ellison; probably others have proposed it also. Carl offered to sign some cheif spooks key, if he would generate one for the purpose, cheif spook declined the offer. I observed a few times before that now that Lotus have organised with the NSA to produce such a key, we can do the job of implementing the voluntary key escrow infrastructure for them. (It is voluntary right?) Adam -- Now officially an EAR violation... Have *you* exported RSA today? --> http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/ print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 14:07:19 +0800 To: "Nobuki Nakatuji" Subject: Re: Is FEAL developed by NTT safe? In-Reply-To: <19980107020417.23803.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980106215602.0098b670@clueserver.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 06:04 PM 1/6/98 PST, Nobuki Nakatuji wrote: > >> >>In article <19980105070034.3946.qmail@hotmail.com> you write: >>> Is FEAL developed by NTT safe? Where isn't safe if it is here because >it >>> isn't safe? >> >>FEAL is dead; I wouldn't ever use it in any new product. >>Use triple-DES instead. >> >What kind of method was FEAL decoded in? All of them. If you take a look at _Applied Cryptography (2nd Edition)_, you will find a number of different methods that have been used against FEAL. It seems that whenever someone comes up with a new method of cryptanalysis, they use it on FEAL first. (Or at least it seems that way...) There are much better solutions. Unpatented ones as well... --- | "That'll make it hot for them!" - Guy Grand | |"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmermann unites all| Disclaimer: | | mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!" | Ignore the man | |`finger -l alano@teleport.com` for PGP 2.6.2 key | behind the keyboard.| | http://www.ctrl-alt-del.com/~alan/ |alan@ctrl-alt-del.com| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: abc.307@iname.com Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 12:51:53 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: 70% Profit your 1st Day. Message-ID: <199801062135.e-mail@_tommy.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Hello, YOU KEEP THE HIGHEST RETAIL PROFITS EVER!! ***************************************************** Consumer Direct Inc. has increased YOUR RETAIL PROFITS to 70% * Very LOW investment * Start earning the 70% profits your 1st day * YOU KEEP ALL THE PROFITS * High Impact Nutritionals by Durk Pearson & Sandy Shaw * Euro-Wash Laundry Ball eliminates Toxic Detergents * Magnetic Therapy Technology for immediate Pain Relief Just 2 Easy Steps: USA/CANADA 1-888-877-7092 (Special Holiday Call) INTERNATIONAL 1-512-703-8033 CALL US 1-800-600-0343 x1422 Best Regards, Rhonda & Pete --------------------------------------------------------------------- To Be Removed mailto:RemoveMe@leipro23.com?subject=REMOVE From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: John Young Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 12:21:49 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Sentencing for Electronic Copyright Infringement Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980107033511.00750ac4@pop.pipeline.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain The United States Sentencing Commission published in the Federal Register today an RFC on changes in sentencing guidelines. Here's an excerpt on electronic copyright infringement: . . . Legislative Amendments Electronic Copyright Infringement 9. Issue for Comment The No Electronic Theft Act, Public Law 105-147, was recently enacted to provide a statutory basis to prosecute and punish persons who, without authorization and without realizing financial gain or commercial advantage, electronically access copyrighted materials or encourage others to do so. The Act includes a directive to the Commission to (A) ensure that the applicable guideline range for a crime committed against intellectual property (including offenses set forth at section 506(a) of title 17, United States Code, and sections 2319, 2319A, and 2320 of title 18, United States Code) is sufficiently stringent to deter such a crime; and (B) ensure that the guidelines provide for consideration of the retail value and quantity of the items with respect to which the crime against intellectual property was committed. Each of the statutes mentioned in the congressional directive currently are referenced to Sec. 2B5.3 (Criminal Infringement of Copyright or Trademark). That guideline provides for incrementally greater punishment when the retail value of the infringing items exceeded $2,000. However, when copyrighted materials are infringed upon by electronic means, there is no ``infringing item'', as would be the case with counterfeited goods. Therefore, the Commission must determine how to value the infringed upon items in order to implement the congressional directive to take into account the retail value and quantity of the items with respect to which the offense was committed. The Commission invites comment on how Sec. 2B5.3 (Criminal Infringement of Copyright or Trademark) should be amended to best effectuate the congressional directives. An approach suggested by the Department of Justice is set forth below. The Commission invites comment on this and alternative proposals. Department of Justice Proposed Amendments to Sec. 2B5.3: The text of Sec. 2B5.3 is amended to read as follows: ``(a) Base offense level: [6] (b) Specific Offense Characteristic (1) If the loss to the copyright or trademark exceeded $2,000, increase by the corresponding number of levels from the table in Sec. 2F1.1 (Fraud and Deceit).''. The Commentary to Sec. 2B5.3 captioned ``Application Note'' is amended in Note 1 by striking: `` `Infringing items' means the items that violate the copyright or trademark laws (not the legitimate items that are infringed upon).'', and inserting: ``A court may calculate the `loss to the copyright or trademark owner' in any reasonable manner. In determining `loss to the copyright or trademark owner,' the court may consider lost profits, the value of the infringed upon items, the value of the infringing items, the injury to the copyright or trademark owner's reputation, and other associated harms.''. The Commentary to Sec. 2B5.3 captioned ``Application Note'' is amended by striking ``Note'' and inserting ``Notes''; and by adding at the end the following new note: ``2. In some cases, the calculable loss to the victim understates the true harm caused by the offense. For example, a defendant may post copyrighted material to an electronic bulletin board or similar online facility, making it easy for others to illegally obtain and further distribute the material. In such an instance, it may not be possible to determine or even estimate how many copies were downloaded, or how much damage the defendant's conduct ultimately caused. In such cases, an upward departure may be warranted. See Chapter Five, Part K (Departures).''. The Commentary to Sec. 2B5.3 captioned ``Background'' is amended in the first paragraph by striking ``value of the infringing items'' and inserting ``loss to the copyright or trademark owner''; and by striking ``loss or''. [End excerpt] For the full RFC: http://jya.com/ussc010698.txt (254K) From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Kurt Buff Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 16:27:40 +0800 To: "'Trei, Peter'" Subject: RE: best body armor for cypherpunks [serious] Message-ID: <01BD1B01.0AF53040.kurtbuff@halcyon.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Nice shot! :) However, Second Chance is probably the leader of that particular pack. - -----Original Message----- From: Trei, Peter [SMTP:ptrei@securitydynamics.com] Sent: Monday, January 05, 1998 8:32 AM To: 'cypherpunks@toad.com' Subject: RE: best body armor for cypherpunks [serious] > ---------- > From: Mix[SMTP:mixmaster@remail.obscura.com] > Reply To: Mix > Sent: Sunday, January 04, 1998 10:44 PM > To: cypherpunks@toad.com > Subject: best body armor for cypherpunks [serious] > > What is, in your opinion, the best (price and performance-wise) > body armor for cypherpunks? > After a few years on this list, one develops such a thick skin that extra protection is superfluos Peter Trei ptrei@securitydynamics.c -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 Charset: noconv iQA/AwUBNLMsmw3xegzLXcRmEQKJ4gCg9Fr8/XXJFUsB9UaPaZ4zymdc5GoAn3YS u46oyeNLel8/+nYbBs7Xb49R =EqQY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Kurt Buff Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 16:23:39 +0800 To: "'Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM'" Subject: RE: [Humor] Kennedy's New Legislation Message-ID: <01BD1B01.0CBA5FE0.kurtbuff@halcyon.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 It balances, or more accurately, they don't. A second politician died today on the ski slope - Sonny Bono. - -----Original Message----- From: Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM [SMTP:dlv@bwalk.dm.com] Sent: Monday, January 05, 1998 4:19 PM To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: [Humor] Kennedy's New Legislation Declan McCullagh writes: > We have a good story in this week's Time that talks about how the ski > resort had repeatedly asked the Kennedys to knock it off. Including the > night before the accident. Even on the "fateful" afternoon, the ski patrol > had told the Kennedys -- the last on the slopes -- it was time to quit. > "Nevertheless, 36 members of the Kennedy party prepared to play." "Evolution in action." Thank you, Michael Kennedy, for improving humanity's gene pool. - --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 Charset: noconv iQA/AwUBNLMtJw3xegzLXcRmEQKeCwCgsElXKkUb2dzM+N0d2nn8I7fresoAn2yF fsizimZ5xfume+xLbPvpQCWL =ZhY3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 13:18:24 +0800 To: users@ssz.com (SSZ User Mail List) Subject: Hi-tech anti-terrorism... [CNN] Message-ID: <199801070542.XAA29574@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > GADGET WARFARE: HIGH-TECH ANTI-TERRORISM > > January 6, 1998 > Web posted at: 9:34 p.m. EST (0234 GMT) > > From Netly News Writer Declan McCullagh > > For a country with no real military rivals, the U.S. still manages > to find an amazing number of enemies. Terrorists top the list of > anti-American villains, according to a Pentagon report released last > month. > > The 100-page document, called "Responses to Transnational Threats," > describes how the military should respond to the threat of saboteurs > and bombers aiming for violence, not victory. The solution, > according to the Pentagon, is to develop a set of gadgets that would > make even James Bond jealous. > > Micro-robots > > A spy camera scuttling through the underbrush? Yes, disguised as "an > insect, a small pebble, or a stick." The report calls for the > development of "micro-robots" that walk or fly and can beam video, > audio and infrared signals back to their operators: "These sensors [deleted text] > Sticky electronics > > Think SpiderMan's spidertracers, only smaller. "Sticky electronics" > adhere to a suspected terrorist's clothing, hair, luggage or vehicle > and report his location. These almost microscopic gizmos tune in to > satellite signals and transmit their exact latitude and longitude. [deleted text] > Bio-sniffers > > Go lie down, Fido. Soon drug-sniffing dogs may be replaced by even > more sensitive, digital noses. If suspects have been handling nukes, > biological weapons or high explosives, the military hopes to be able > to sniff substance traces from items like passports. "As future [text deleted] > technology is improved, antigens might then be detected at national > entry portals as trace contamination on emigration documents or > passports, by urine analysis or by other means." Look for companies > to use this as a more sensitive (if not more reliable) type of drug > testing. > > The Internet > > The Net shouldn't be viewed as "a vulnerability." That view "loses > sight of many potential benefits," the Pentagon explains. To the > spooks, the Net "is an underexploited information-acquisition > resource" that "allows for remote and anonymous participation in > online 'chat' forums that might provide insight into dissident group > activities." (Look out, alt.fan.militia!) The military also wants to > create a "secure, transnational threat information infrastructure" > -- at a cost of a mere $300 million. > > Data mining > > If you worried about the FBI's jones for access to your data, wait > 'til you find out what the military hopes to do. The Pentagon wants > authority to sift through private-sector databases in hopes of > tracking down, say, the World Trade Center bombers before they > strike. The plan is to incorporate "real-time data on international > border crossings, real-time cargo manifests, global financial [deleted text] > Smart software > > Once you've got the databases, how do you use 'em? The military says > the answer is "groupware" and "intelligent software agents" that > "can be focused to search for a confluence of events in multiple > databases or for goals over time." Consumer marketers will finally > be able to determine the commonalities between the Hajj, Promise > Keeper gatherings and Burning Man. > > So would military budgets. In a world where even the Pentagon admits > that the U.S. is the only remaining superpower, the defense > community argues that terrorism threats justify their budgets. > "Nothing will be more challenging to the protection of our citizens, > soldiers and our way of life than the threats of weapons of mass > destruction and terrorism," General John Shalikashvili, chairman of [text deleted] ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 16:33:19 +0800 To: John Young Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 7:35 PM -0800 1/6/98, John Young wrote: >The United States Sentencing Commission published in the >Federal Register today an RFC on changes in sentencing >guidelines. Here's an excerpt on electronic copyright >infringement: .... > (1) If the loss to the copyright or trademark exceeded $2,000, >increase by the corresponding number of levels from the table in >Sec. 2F1.1 (Fraud and Deceit).''. .... The upshot of all this "spreadsheet sentencing" is that nearly all of us have some number of infringing materials, illegal copies, or unauthorized downloads on our systems. Or we have more than the allowable number of backup copies of our important programs. Or even of our unimportant programs. When the ninja narc raiders cart our computers off for analysis, I'm sure they can find enough violations to send us away for as many years as they wish. Even though I'm not a "warez" trader, or even a software pirate, and even though I have perhaps foolishly bought many thousands of dollars worth of now-discontinued and now-unused products ("shelfware"), I am quite sure the Authorities could find dozens and dozens of violations of these new laws. Welcome to Amerika. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Kent Crispin Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 16:20:04 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Re: cypherpunks and guns In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <19980107001651.29456@songbird.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Wed, Jan 07, 1998 at 01:25:45AM -0600, snow wrote: > > I am fairly certain that as an irregular army soldier I could inflict > > a substantial amount of damage upon an occupying military. With maybe > > $20k in equipment and several hundred hours of training, you could make > > If you were smart, you could do it for a lot less. That presumes the enemy is dumb. An amusing fantasy. -- Kent Crispin, PAB Chair "No reason to get excited", kent@songbird.com the thief he kindly spoke... PGP fingerprint: B1 8B 72 ED 55 21 5E 44 61 F4 58 0F 72 10 65 55 http://songbird.com/kent/pgp_key.html From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Lucky Green Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 08:06:18 +0800 To: Adam Back Subject: Re: Silly Shrinkwrapped Encryption In-Reply-To: <199801062128.VAA00264@server.eternity.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, Adam Back wrote: > It would be humorous to even have the modulus and exponent -- if > someone can obtain them, I'll package it up as a working PGP key, and > give it user id of Spook GAK key , and submit to the > keyservers. Then we have solved the key escrow implementation > problems for the US government -- anyone who wants to send them a > message can simply add DIRNSA to the list of recipeints. This would be truly hilarious. Anybody out there with a copy of Notes and a debugger? :-) -- Lucky Green PGP v5 encrypted email preferred. "Tonga? Where the hell is Tonga? They have Cypherpunks there?" From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "snow" Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 14:22:39 +0800 To: weidai@eskimo.com (Wei Dai) Subject: Re: cypherpunks and guns In-Reply-To: <19980106005136.23824@eskimo.com> Message-ID: <199801070718.BAA01750@smoke.suba.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > I don't understand why there is so much talk about guns here lately. > Unless someone comes up with a weapon that has some very unusual economic > properties, individuals cannot hope to compete with governments in the > domain of deadly force. If we have to resort to physical violence, we've Tell that to Lincoln, Duke F., Kennedy, &etc. No, we couldn't win thru the overwhelming use of force, but force properly applied could at some point prove useful. > already lost! There are some of us who feel that if we "lose", it would be better to go down fighting than to live in the kind of world where we can't protect our privacy with crypto. > Think about it: if we can defend ourselves with guns, why would we need > crypto? Different realms. Crypto deals with transient/ephemeral(sp?) things like bits & words & numbers. Arms work in a more physical world of Rapists, Theives, & Dictators. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "snow" Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 14:21:25 +0800 To: tcmay@got.net (Tim May) Subject: Re: cypherpunks and guns In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801070720.BAA01765@smoke.suba.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > Final comment: If I find the motivation, I may finish an essay I've been > working on about how we, the Cypherpunks and the World, are *retrogressing* > in crypto areas. Most of the exotic applications are no longer being > discussed, and various mundane commercial products are the main focus. Yawn. You mean things like Onion Routers, Crowds & the like? From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "snow" Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 14:26:41 +0800 To: rdl@mit.edu (Ryan Lackey) Subject: Re: cypherpunks and guns In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801070725.BAA01787@smoke.suba.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > I am fairly certain that as an irregular army soldier I could inflict > a substantial amount of damage upon an occupying military. With maybe > $20k in equipment and several hundred hours of training, you could make If you were smart, you could do it for a lot less. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "snow" Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 14:39:34 +0800 To: isparkes@q9f47.dmst02.telekom.de (Ian Sparkes) Subject: Re: cypherpunks and guns In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19980106144257.006f0fec@q9f47.dmst02.telekom.de> Message-ID: <199801070729.BAA01812@smoke.suba.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > >that by 100 million armed citizens and you see that armed civilian > >resistance *can* defeat an occupying army. > The "enemy within" seems to be the main focus of the discussions in > the CP list. When the 'luckless squad that happens your way' is > manned by your countrymen at the command of their (and your) > government, what then? You answered your own question. Fight smarter, not harder. Kill the brains and the body would follow. > This is from the standpoint of a 'sissy' European. I admit I am > poorly equipped to comment on the American Zeitgeist. However, my > experience of civil war victims (refugees from the E-bloc) suggests > that we should be concentrating on social revolution before we tool > up for military. There is more to be won, with a potentially much > lower cost. Any kind of social revolution will be co-opted, destroyed, or rendered useless by the people at the top. What it needed is a continuance of the technical revolution. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "snow" Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 14:44:17 +0800 To: guy@panix.com (Information Security) Subject: Re: cypherpunks and guns In-Reply-To: <199801061912.OAA08946@panix2.panix.com> Message-ID: <199801070740.BAA01846@smoke.suba.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > # 128bit SSL module distribution *EVEN TO US CITIZENS* due to commerce > # department fuckedness. Anyone know where I could get a copy? It would > # really suck to have to patch the 40bit one into a 128bit version, since > # they do not distribute source. > I don't know if this is the "module" form of the answer you want: > http://www.replay.com/ Nope, he wants the AOL SERVER, not browser > Tim May wrote: >> Final comment: If I find the motivation, I may finish an essay I've been >> working on about how we, the Cypherpunks and the World, are *retrogressing* >> in crypto areas. Most of the exotic applications are no longer being >> discussed, and various mundane commercial products are the main focus. > > Yawn. > How about moving this list to encrypt its transmissions in > the recipient's public keys, just to begin encrypting Net traffic? At this point, there would be WAY too much overhead on the 3 or so servers that make up the cypherpunks mailing list. PGP encrypting every message sent thru would take up a lot of CPU time. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Adam Shostack Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 15:52:05 +0800 To: aba@dcs.ex.ac.uk Subject: Re: Silly Shrinkwrapped Encryption In-Reply-To: <199801062128.VAA00264@server.eternity.org> Message-ID: <199801070745.CAA29531@homeport.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Adam Back wrote: | The above "solution" to key escrow infra-structure calls from Freeh | etc., should be credited to Carl Ellison; probably others have | proposed it also. Carl offered to sign some cheif spooks key, if he | would generate one for the purpose, cheif spook declined the offer. That was Phil Karn to NSA legal counsel at the Computers Freedom and Privacy conference in Burlingame, 1994 or 1995. I don't recall hearing it before that. Adam -- "It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -Hume From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 22:12:54 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: Sentencing for Electronic Copyright Infringement In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Tim May writes: > When the ninja narc raiders cart our computers off for analysis, I'm sure > they can find enough violations to send us away for as many years as they > wish. And if Timmy knew a bit more about cryptography than he could learn by browsing through Bruce Schneier's book, the ninja narc raiders wouldm't be able to find shit on any of his media. :-) --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Eric Cordian Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 23:22:28 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: Silly Shrinkwrapped Encryption In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801071516.JAA10807@wire.insync.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Bill Frantz writes: > It seems to me that if you step on the correct part of the message, you > zap the encrypted 24 bits, and cut NSA out of the loop. Of course the > receiver could notice and refuse to decrypt, which would require some > software hacking to defeat, but that is certainly doable. Yes - I doubt if Lotus Notes has the ability to distinguish between messages containing ASCII for "FUD" in the workfactor reduction field and those containing 24 genuine bits of the key in question. It's probably a one-instruction patch to disable Big Brother. As I recall, the LEAF field in Clipper suffered from a similar ability to be disabled at the user's pleasure. -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law" From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Pearson Shane Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 15:33:56 +0800 To: "'Bill Stewart'" Subject: RE: Location Escrow anyone ? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Hey guys, I wasn't suggesting that they do record exactly where everyone is at the highest resolution possible. Just suggesting that should they want to investigate an individual, they could do it with pretty high detail. Though I'm sure they'd record when and where you switch your phone on, switch off / loose signal, switch cells and make and receive calls and messages. That wouldn't be all that much data. Bye for now. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Paul Bradley Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 23:18:41 +0800 To: platypus@acmeonline.net Subject: Re: Freedom Forum report on the State of the First Amendment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > > You clearly have no comprehension of the principles of the free market > > and the rights of businesses and individual to hire and fire whoever the > > fuck they like for any reason whatsoever. > > My rights to swing my fists end at your noise. When ever you interact > with other peaple your rights are tempered by there rights. Even Adam > Smith recognised that its was gorverments dutie to redress the failing of > the market. Why there is even discussion on this point on a list whose membership is composed mainly of market anarchists is beyond me, the NAP and rights of association should clearly define the answer to this question, no agression is involved in the act of firing or declining to hire people based on their colour/nationality or any other factor whatsoever. > Also recall the free market model assumes that the word is full of totaly > rational pepeale who have full knowige of the market. Any one who has > been on this list knows that these peaple are somewhat uncommen. I don`t see the model that way at all, I don`t claim that my idea of a free market works well in practice, I believe it would but I have no proof, however, the model is ethically right in that it allows businesses and individuals to behave as they please as long as it harms no other person, sure, firing you may harm you by decreasing your income but this is not an agressive act, it is a passive one: I have declined to offer you, or keep you, in employment. Datacomms Technologies data security Paul Bradley, Paul@fatmans.demon.co.uk Paul@crypto.uk.eu.org, Paul@cryptography.uk.eu.org Http://www.cryptography.home.ml.org/ Email for PGP public key, ID: FC76DA85 "Don`t forget to mount a scratch monkey" From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Rabid Wombat Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 11:49:29 +0800 To: "Brian B. Riley" Subject: More gun nutz In-Reply-To: <199801080258.VAA23445@mx02.together.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Wed, 7 Jan 1998, Brian B. Riley wrote: > retired ... look just recently at what happened to the Russians troops > sent to Chechnya ... all these brand spanking new, highly trained > proud young 19 and 20 year old troops went romping off to fight 'a > bunch of old men' in the Chechyn Republic ... there was one little > problem ... a big hunk of those old men had spent two to seven years > in that same Russian Army fighting the Mujahedeen in Afghanistan ... > and that 'bunch of old men' kicked their young asses! That's just the new Russian capitalism. Their military had to create some real equipment losses to cover all the missing inventory they're selling on the black market. -r.w. p.s. - How can I get the DMV to give me "historic" tags for my slightly used T-64? What's the best armored fighting vehicle for a cypherpunk? From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: David Miller Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 00:13:07 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Re: Sentencing for Electronic Copyright Infringement In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <34B3D211.4148@avana.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Tim May wrote: > Even though I'm not a "warez" trader, or even a software pirate, and even > though I have perhaps foolishly bought many thousands of dollars worth of > now-discontinued and now-unused products ("shelfware"), I am quite sure the > Authorities could find dozens and dozens of violations of these new laws. On the other hand, it's no longer in vogue to haul people off for video piracy anymore. Perhaps we should all stego our monitors & computers into looking like TV's & VCR's until this blows over. :-) --David Miller From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Steve Schear Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 04:42:11 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Debit-card program cancelled because of fraud [FWD] Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 09:22:45 -0500 From: Steve Bellovin Subject: Debit-card program cancelled because of fraud According to the AP, Burns National Bank (Durango, CO) is cancelling its debit-card program because of fraud. The article is maddeningly incomplete about technical details. Apparently, the "hackers" (to quote the article) counterfeited plastic cards and "took account number sequences off software that resides on the Internet before encoding them in the magnetic strip on the back of the card." When the fraud was detected, some customers had new cards issued, with some unspecified extra security feature. It didn't work; within a month, the accounts were penetrated again. Three other banks have been victimized by a similar scheme. All four use the same debit card vendor; Burns blames the vendor for inadequate security, in some unspecified form. They're looking for a new supplier; until then, the entire program is being suspended. Losses to date -- which are apparently being absorbed by the banks -- total $300,000. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 03:47:53 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Too many "Internet Conferences" in Washington In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 11:08 AM -0800 1/7/98, Declan McCullagh wrote: >[This is the conference Tim was criticizing yesterday. --Declan] > Just to be more accurate, I was criticising the _sheer frequency_ of such conferences, with this one just being one of many. And not even the latest such example, as yet another Washington conference on the Internet was announced later yesterday. I just can't understand who attends these things, besides the Usual Suspects. Maybe we could convince them to all have their confabs on the same day, the same day Abu Nidal explodes his nuke in Crystal City? (Or invite the Algerians in for a Hackers Conference? Get medeival on their asses.) --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Declan McCullagh Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 03:55:24 +0800 To: Tim May Subject: Re: Too many "Internet Conferences" in Washington In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain In truth, I mistyped. Tim not only was talking about the frequency (and I gather, the danger) of the conferences, he was responding to the ACM one, not the WW one. Now, who attends these things? 1. Journalists 2. Government bureaucrats happy to have a day off from work, who want to position themselves as "Net-savvy" 3. Lobbyists who bill it to clients 4. Think tank people who hope someone reads their papers The Naderite "Appraising Microsoft" conference seemed to be populated mainly by journalists, at some points. These conferences can be dangerous. If the best thing for the Net is for DC to leave it alone, that principle leaves no space for Washington lobbyists who bill by the hour (and through the nose) for their expertise: pressuring various portions of the government. This is why lobbyists, including so-called "Net-lobbyists" are not what the Net, and freedom, need. -Declan On Wed, 7 Jan 1998, Tim May wrote: > At 11:08 AM -0800 1/7/98, Declan McCullagh wrote: > >[This is the conference Tim was criticizing yesterday. --Declan] > > > > Just to be more accurate, I was criticising the _sheer frequency_ of such > conferences, with this one just being one of many. And not even the latest > such example, as yet another Washington conference on the Internet was > announced later yesterday. > > I just can't understand who attends these things, besides the Usual Suspects. > > Maybe we could convince them to all have their confabs on the same day, the > same day Abu Nidal explodes his nuke in Crystal City? > > (Or invite the Algerians in for a Hackers Conference? Get medeival on their > asses.) > > --Tim May > > The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography > ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- > Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, > ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero > W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, > Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. > "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." > > > > > From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 04:10:47 +0800 To: Declan McCullagh Subject: Re: Too many "Internet Conferences" in Washington In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 11:50 AM -0800 1/7/98, Declan McCullagh wrote: >In truth, I mistyped. Tim not only was talking about the frequency (and I >gather, the danger) of the conferences, he was responding to the ACM one, >not the WW one. Yeah, I didn't even recall which one I was commenting on. Just too many of these damned boondoggles. The only conference recently which as sounded interesting was the one on "anonymity" down near LA recently...I might have gone, but I don't recall hearing about it, or being invited. Until it was over, of course. (I guess it was filled up with journalists, judging from the various articles which have come out of it. Mostly cheesy articles, Declan's excepted.) >Now, who attends these things? > >1. Journalists >2. Government bureaucrats happy to have a day off from work, who want to >position themselves as "Net-savvy" >3. Lobbyists who bill it to clients >4. Think tank people who hope someone reads their papers Yep. Boondoggles. But as John G. and Declan and others have noted, these things can do real damage. By skimming the surface, they are really just platforms for position advocacy. Whether "conferences" on "ratings," or "Net.porn," or "anonymity," or whatever, they end up being fora for certain policy wonks to make their cases. And lazy staffers can then regurgitate the positions as proposed legislation. (Thus satisfying their quotas, and proving they are working hard.) >The Naderite "Appraising Microsoft" conference seemed to be populated >mainly by journalists, at some points. Too many fucking journalists. Too many fucking staffers. Too many fucking bureaucrats, lackeys, satraps, and empire builders. The whole city, America's imperial city, is corruption on earth. The Ayotollah had that one right. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Declan McCullagh Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 04:38:47 +0800 To: Tim May Subject: Re: Too many "Internet Conferences" in Washington In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Wed, 7 Jan 1998, Tim May wrote: > The only conference recently which as sounded interesting was the one on > "anonymity" down near LA recently...I might have gone, but I don't recall > hearing about it, or being invited. Until it was over, of course. > > (I guess it was filled up with journalists, judging from the various > articles which have come out of it. Mostly cheesy articles, Declan's > excepted.) I think I was the only full-time journalist invited to participate. There were maybe four or so jlists covering it. From the web site: Attendance at this conference will be by invitation only. About 35 individuals will represent a variety of backgrounds and perspectives including the computing industry (such as Internet service providers, network administrators, and providers of "anonymizing" services) the legal community, professional societies, academic institutions, law enforcement agencies, and other agencies of government. > But as John G. and Declan and others have noted, these things can do real > damage. By skimming the surface, they are really just platforms for > position advocacy. Whether "conferences" on "ratings," or "Net.porn," or > "anonymity," or whatever, they end up being fora for certain policy wonks > to make their cases. And lazy staffers can then regurgitate the positions > as proposed legislation. (Thus satisfying their quotas, and proving they > are working hard.) Lobbyists need to show they're doing something to justify the money they grab from corporations (many of which could be doing something better with this cash, like R&D). Hence they host conferences and attend others. There are very, very few groups out there that say Washington should take a "hands off" approach to the Internet. Oh, sure, high tech firms (including Microsoft) will use it as a good PR line but wait 'til they get a chance to pass a criminal copyright bill. Even the librarians and scientists, generally good on issues like content and copyright, spend much of their time trying to grab more federal dollars. Like the new federal phone tax the librarians and teachers pushed for: something like $10-20/year per phone line. Then of course there's the religious right and the law enforcement lobbyists, all of which have their own pet projects and legislation. There are few groups who are consistently opposed to the government mucking around with the Internet. Cato Institute, Competitive Enterprise Institute, and maybe American Enterprise Institute and Citizens for Sound Economy and the Federalist Society. Very, very few. -Declan From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "William H. Geiger III" Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 02:50:27 +0800 To: Kent Crispin Subject: Re: cypherpunks and guns In-Reply-To: <19980107001651.29456@songbird.com> Message-ID: <199801071844.NAA28170@users.invweb.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In <19980107001651.29456@songbird.com>, on 01/07/98 at 03:16 AM, Kent Crispin said: >On Wed, Jan 07, 1998 at 01:25:45AM -0600, snow wrote: >> > I am fairly certain that as an irregular army soldier I could inflict >> > a substantial amount of damage upon an occupying military. With maybe >> > $20k in equipment and several hundred hours of training, you could make >> >> If you were smart, you could do it for a lot less. >That presumes the enemy is dumb. An amusing fantasy. The fact that they collect a paycheck from the government is prima facie evidence of diminished mental capacity. - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a-sha1 Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBNLPK2o9Co1n+aLhhAQFGnQP/XjQolE3fElFXPrPWSe7p3lM7QY/kEMYr AF3CXUr1ov0IFRfqItryMSM8eGa65V69X1FS1AagXgzz5IpZ89E4wbiPMC5Rh8aP oifllXC+G7+bgcBZyzzRKQ9ZXlMckHnSpPCyFq1xE35Uj6gbu790oVd92yzvf5sy pjALZQjE7MI= =cG0G -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Declan McCullagh Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 04:38:05 +0800 To: Tim May Subject: Re: Too many "Internet Conferences" in Washington In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain YAICIW January 5, 1998: Information and registration details are now available on the Thursday, January 22, 1998 meeting in Washington, D.C.: "Internet Domain Name System - gTLD-MoU Information Session - An Opportunity to Meet Members of the Policy Oversight Committee (POC) and Council of Registrars (CORE) to Discuss Policy, Legal and Technical Aspects of the new Top Level Domains". See http://www.gtld-mou.org/docs/meetings.html#jan22 for information and registration form. January 5, 1998: CORE will have a Plenary Meeting on January 21, 23, 24, 1998 in Washington, D.C. See http://www.gtld-mou.org/docs/meetings.html#jan21 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Declan McCullagh Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 05:11:17 +0800 To: Tim May Subject: Re: Too many "Internet Conferences" in Washington In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain YAICIW Look for more taxes to pay for rural phone connections Connecting All Americans for the 21st Century: Telecommunications Links in Low Income & Rural Communities February 24-27, 1998 Washington, D.C. A Policy Conference & A Practitioners Workshop sponsored by United States Department of Commerce National Telecommunications and Information Administration (NTIA) & The Public Utility Law Project (PULP) A Non Profit Public Interest Law Firm Representing Low Income and Rural Consumers From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "William H. Geiger III" Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 02:44:53 +0800 To: Bill Frantz Subject: Re: Silly Shrinkwrapped Encryption In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801071847.NAA28200@users.invweb.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In , on 01/07/98 at 12:10 AM, Bill Frantz said: >At 11:49 AM -0800 1/6/98, Eric Cordian wrote: >>I managed to find a document entitled "Security in Lotus Notes and the >>Internet" on the Web. >> >>It describes the weakening procedure as follows. >> >> "No matter which version of Notes you are using, encryption uses the >> full 64-bit key size. However, the International edition takes 24 bits >> of the key and encrypts it using an RSA public key for which the US >> National Security Agency holds the matching private key. This >> encrypted portion of the key is then sent with each message as an >> additional field, the workfactor reduction field. The net result of >> this is that an illegitimate hacker has to tackle 64-bit encryption, >> which is at or beyond the practical limit for current decryption >> technology and hardware. The US government, on the other hand, only >> has to break a 40-bit key space, which is much easier (2 to the power >> of 24 times easier, to be precise)." >It seems to me that if you step on the correct part of the message, you >zap the encrypted 24 bits, and cut NSA out of the loop. Of course the >receiver could notice and refuse to decrypt, which would require some >software hacking to defeat, but that is certainly doable. Wouldn't it be much better just to not use the crap?!? Why should we give our money to a company that has shown that they will sell us out at the first chance of making a buck doing so?? - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a-sha1 Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBNLPLlY9Co1n+aLhhAQHt5gP+NtHd38qR7JcqpL1hCxdk4Tz1N239kIIm 7V6vmiM76oinIDXmsgJoZN9NgLdI8kd7otJt1nLOlEkbGpZ9lAn69pdeB0BzAM2Q OOXhPsy6AzB3y/wdMY2wXpgmTAIT5CpW/014NqtBLIgoL2g2pXseTe416OixxBDv m9aJKKvHgb0= =Us1n -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Declan McCullagh Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 04:43:59 +0800 To: Tim May Subject: Re: Too many "Internet Conferences" in Washington In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain YAICIW (well actually a press conference) January 7 1:30 p.m. POLITICS ONLINE - PoliticsOnLine publisher Phil Noble holds a news conference to release a report on how the Internet was used in politics last year and prospects for usage this year. Location: National Press Club. Contact: Willie Blacklow, 301-652-3623. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Declan McCullagh Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 04:46:09 +0800 To: Tim May Subject: Re: Too many "Internet Conferences" in Washington In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain YAICIW (disclaimer: I am speaking at this one) Cyberjournalism98 The best and brightest in cyberjournalism will explore the future of internet based news and reporting at the Cyberjournalism98 symposium on Jan. 8-10, 1998 in Washington, D.C. and jointly sponsored by the National Press Club and the Freedom Forum. For information on exhibiting atCyberjournalism98 contact Yvonne Miller at MediaMasters@rocketmail.com For information about attending the conference call Euraine Brooks at 703.284.2809 or email ebrooks@freedomforum.org From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Declan McCullagh Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 05:10:59 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Lessig on antitrust and government regulation Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Lessig is the special master appointed by the judge in the Microsoft consent decree case. He once wrote: >Whether a regulation is >rational turns on the facts, and what counts as "the facts" turns on the >theory that animates inquiry into the facts. Wow. How do we know what theory is the right one, and when we should change it? -Declan From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Declan McCullagh Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 05:13:31 +0800 To: Tim May Subject: Re: Too many "Internet Conferences" in Washington In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain YAISIW Washington, D.C. - January 6, 1998 - Ira Magaziner, President Clinton's domestic policy development advisor, will outline the U.S. Government position on electronic commerce and reform of the Domain Name System at the Internet Executive Summits in London (on January 19, 1998, by video conference link) and Washington (on February 4, 1998). Magaziner has spearheaded the Clinton Administration's efforts on electronic commerce and has taken a leading role in the U.S. Government's work on privatization of the Domain Name System. Sally Tate, joint managing director of Prince plc, which is facilitating the Summits, said that "Governments around the world want the private sector to take the lead to reform and manage the Internet. The Internet Executive Summits will enable business leaders to have direct participation in formulating the private sector initiative to ensure that the solution will fully reflect its requirements." A U.S. Inter-Agency Taskforce, set up in April 1997, it is expected to issue policy recommendations based on responses to a request for comments issued in July 1997 and thousands of pages of emailed recommendations received each week. Magaziner's team has also had consultations with hundreds of major Internet and telecommunications companies in Washington D.C. in December 1997. The open door global Internet Executive Summits in London (January 19-20, 1998) and Washington (February 3-4, 1998) will help to set the agenda for transition of the current Internet Domain Name and governance systems. All delegates will be eligible to participate in the reform committees / initiatives formed at the Summits. Representatives from all Internet stakeholder groups are expected to attend the Summits including: commercial organizations worldwide, national governments and intergovernmental organizations, law firms / corporate legal departments, Internet consumer groups (including the research and education community), technology companies and Internet service providers (ISP's). From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: bill payne Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 04:51:13 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Bruce Schneier, Sandia, FBI and the REAL WORLD Message-ID: <34B3DFB4.6396@nmol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Wednesday 1/7/98 12:57 PM Bruce Schneier wrote and a burglar willing to try all 10,000 is guaranteed to break into your house. This is posted at jya.com. Sandia employees Jack Hudson and Jack Menako, both in my division when Sandia transferred me to break electronic locks for the FBI/ERF [Engineering Research Facility, Quantico, VA], were TRYING to defeat combination locks on file cabinets. Menako built a frame to connect a stepper-motor to the combination dial. The stepper motor was wried to a PC. Hudson wrote the software to try all possible combinations. What happened, IN FACT, was that the combination lock wore-out before the combination which opened the lock was reached. Combinations locks are NOT ENGINEERED for such heavy use. The file safe had to be destroyed to open it! So Schneier's statement may be incorrect. No guarantee. Guys, this is the REAL WORLD. bill Title: Security Pitfalls in Cryptography Security Pitfalls in Cryptography by Bruce Schneier Cryptography Consultant Counterpane Systems e-mail: schneier@counterpane.com Magazine articles like to describe cryptography products in terms of algorithms and key length. Algorithms make good sound bites: they can be explained in a few words and they're easy to compare with one another. "128-bit keys mean good security." "Triple-DES means good security." "40-bit keys mean weak security." "2048-bit RSA is better than 1024-bit RSA." But reality isn't that simple. Longer keys don't always mean more security. Compare the cryptographic algorithm to the lock on your front door. Most door locks have four metal pins, each of which can be in one of ten positions. A key sets the pins in a particular configuration. If the key aligns them all correctly, then the lock opens. So there are only 10,000 possible keys, and a burglar willing to try all 10,000 is guaranteed to break into your house. But an improved lock with ten pins, making 10 billion possible keys, probably won't make your house more secure. Burglars don't try every possible key (a brute-force attack); most aren't even clever enough to pick the lock (a cryptographic attack against the algorithm). They smash windows, kick in doors, disguise themselves as policemen, or rob keyholders at gunpoint. One ring of art thieves in California defeated home security systems by taking a chainsaw to the house walls. Better locks don't help against these attacks. Strong cryptography is very powerful when it is done right, but it is not a panacea. Focusing on the cryptographic algorithms while ignoring other aspects of security is like defending your house not by building a fence around it, but by putting an immense stake into the ground and hoping that the adversary runs right into it. Smart attackers will just go around the algorithms. Counterpane Systems has spent years designing, analyzing, and breaking cryptographic systems. While we do research on published algorithms and protocols, most of our work examines actual products. We've designed and analyzed systems that protect privacy, ensure confidentiality, provide fairness, and facilitate commerce. We've worked with software, stand-alone hardware, and everything in between. We've broken our share of algorithms, but we can almost always find attacks that bypass the algorithms altogether. We don't have to try every possible key, or even find flaws in the algorithms. We exploit errors in design, errors in implementation, and errors in installation. Sometimes we invent a new trick to break a system, but most of the time we exploit the same old mistakes that designers make over and over again. Attacks Against Cryptographic Designs A cryptographic system can only be as strong as the encryption algorithms, digital signature algorithms, one-way hash functions, and message authentication codes it relies on. Break any of them, and you've broken the system. And just as it's possible to build a weak structure using strong materials, it's possible to build a weak cryptographic system using strong algorithms and protocols. We often find systems that "void the warranty" of their cryptography by not using it properly: failing to check the size of values, reusing random parameters that should never be reused, and so on. Encryption algorithms don't necessarily provide data integrity. Key exchange protocols don't necessarily ensure that both parties receive the same key. In a recent research project, we found that some--not all--systems using related cryptographic keys could be broken, even though each individual key was secure. Security is a lot more than plugging in an algorithm and expecting the system to work. Even good engineers, well-known companies, and lots of effort are no guarantee of robust implementation; our work on the U.S. digital cellular encryption algorithm illustrated that. Random-number generators are another place where cryptographic systems often break. Good random-number generators are hard to design, because their security often depends on the particulars of the hardware and software. Many products we examine use bad ones. The cryptography may be strong, but if the random-number generator produces weak keys, the system is much easier to break. Other products use secure random-number generators, but they don't use enough randomness to make the cryptography secure. Recently Counterpane Systems has published new classes of attacks against random-number generators, based on our work with commercial designs. One of the most surprising things we've found is that specific random-number generators may be secure for one purpose but insecure for another; generalizing security analyses is dangerous. In another research result, we looked at interactions between individually secure cryptographic protocols. Given a secure protocol, we show how to build another secure protocol that will break the first if both are used with the same keys on the same device. Attacks Against Implementations Many systems fail because of mistakes in implementation. Some systems don't ensure that plaintext is destroyed after it's encrypted. Other systems use temporary files to protect against data loss during a system crash, or virtual memory to increase the available memory; these features can accidentally leave plaintext lying around on the hard drive. In extreme cases, the operating system can leave the keys on the hard drive. One product we've seen used a special window for password input. The password remained in the window's memory even after it was closed. It didn't matter how good that product's cryptography was; it was broken by the user interface. Other systems fall to more subtle problems. Sometimes the same data is encrypted with two different keys, one strong and one weak. Other systems use master keys and then one-time session keys. We've broken systems using partial information about the different keys. We've also seen systems that use inadequate protection mechanisms for the master keys, mistakenly relying on the security of the session keys. It's vital to secure all possible ways to learn a key, not just the most obvious ones. Electronic commerce systems often make implementation trade-offs to enhance usability. We've found subtle vulnerabilities here, when designers don't think through the security implications of their trade-offs. Doing account reconciliation only once per day might be easier, but what kind of damage can an attacker do in a few hours? Can audit mechanisms be flooded to hide the identity of an attacker? Some systems record compromised keys on "hotlists"; attacks against these hotlists can be very fruitful. Other systems can be broken through replay attacks: reusing old messages, or parts of old messages, to fool various parties. Systems that allow old keys to be recovered in an emergency provide another area to attack. Good cryptographic systems are designed so that the keys exist for as short a period of time as possible; key recovery often negates any security benefit by forcing keys to exist long after they are useful. Furthermore, key recovery databases become sources of vulnerability in themselves, and have to be designed and implemented securely. In one product we evaluated, flaws in the key recovery database allowed criminals to commit fraud and then frame legitimate users. Attacks Against Passwords Many systems break because they rely on user-generated passwords. Left to themselves, people don't choose strong passwords. If they're forced to use strong passwords, they can't remember them. If the password becomes a key, it's usually much easier--and faster--to guess the password than it is to brute-force the key; we've seen elaborate security systems fail in this way. Some user interfaces make the problem even worse: limiting the passwords to eight characters, converting everything to lower case, etc. Even passphrases can be weak: searching through 40-character phrases is often much easier than searching through 64-bit random keys. We've also seen key-recovery systems that circumvent strong session keys by using weak passwords for key-recovery. Attacks Against Hardware Some systems, particularly commerce systems, rely on tamper-resistant hardware for security: smart cards, electronic wallets, dongles, etc. These systems may assume public terminals never fall into the wrong hands, or that those "wrong hands" lack the expertise and equipment to attack the hardware. While hardware security is an important component in many secure systems, we distrust systems whose security rests solely on assumptions about tamper resistance. We've rarely seen tamper resistance techniques that work, and tools for defeating tamper resistance are getting better all the time. When we design systems that use tamper resistance, we always build in complementary security mechanisms just in case the tamper resistance fails. The "timing attack" made a big press splash in 1995: RSA private keys could be recovered by measuring the relative times cryptographic operations took. The attack has been successfully implemented against smart cards and other security tokens, and against electronic commerce servers across the Internet. Counterpane Systems and others have generalized these methods to include attacks on a system by measuring power consumption, radiation emissions, and other "side channels," and have implemented them against a variety of public-key and symmetric algorithms in "secure" tokens. We've yet to find a smart card that we can't pull the secret keys out of by looking at side channels. Related research has looked at fault analysis: deliberately introducing faults into cryptographic processors in order to determine the secret keys. The effects of this attack can be devastating. Attacks Against Trust Models Many of our more interesting attacks are against the underlying trust model of the system: who or what in the system is trusted, in what way, and to what extent. Simple systems, like hard-drive encryption programs or telephone privacy products, have simple trust models. Complex systems, like electronic commerce systems or multi-user e-mail security programs, have complex (and subtle) trust models. An e-mail program might use uncrackable cryptography for the messages, but unless the keys are certified by a trusted source (and unless that certification can be verified), the system is still vulnerable. Some commerce systems can be broken by a merchant and a customer colluding, or by two different customers colluding. Other systems make implicit assumptions about security infrastructures, but don't bother to check that those assumptions are actually true. If the trust model isn't documented, then an engineer can unknowingly change it in product development, and compromise security. Many software systems make poor trust assumptions about the computers they run on; they assume the desktop is secure. These programs can often be broken by Trojan horse software that sniffs passwords, reads plaintext, or otherwise circumvents security measures. Systems working across computer networks have to worry about security flaws resulting from the network protocols. Computers that are attached to the Internet can also be vulnerable. Again, the cryptography may be irrelevant if it can be circumvented through network insecurity. And no software is secure against reverse-engineering. Often, a system will be designed with one trust model in mind, and implemented with another. Decisions made in the design process might be completely ignored when it comes time to sell it to customers. A system that is secure when the operators are trusted and the computers are completely under the control of the company using the system may not be secure when the operators are temps hired at just over minimum wage and the computers are untrusted. Good trust models work even if some of the trust assumptions turn out to be wrong. Attacks on the Users Even when a system is secure if used properly, its users can subvert its security by accident--especially if the system isn't designed very well. The classic example of this is the user who gives his password to his co-workers so they can fix some problem when he's out of the office. Users may not report missing smart cards for a few days, in case they are just misplaced. They may not carefully check the name on a digital certificate. They may reuse their secure passwords on other, insecure systems. They may not change their software's default weak security settings. Good system design can't fix all these social problems, but it can help avoid many of them. Attacks Against Failure Recovery Strong systems are designed to keep small security breaks from becoming big ones. Recovering the key to one file should not allow the attacker to read every file on the hard drive. A hacker who reverse-engineers a smart card should only learn the secrets in that smart card, not information that will help him break other smart cards in the system. In a multi-user system, knowing one person's secrets shouldn't compromise everyone else's. Many systems have a "default to insecure mode." If the security feature doesn't work, most people just turn it off and finish their business. If the on-line credit card verification system is down, merchants will default to the less-secure paper system. Similarly, it is sometimes possible to mount a "version rollback attack" against a system after it has been revised to fix a security problem: the need for backwards compatibility allows an attacker to force the protocol into an older, insecure, version. Other systems have no ability to recover from disaster. If the security breaks, there's no way to fix it. For electronic commerce systems, which could have millions of users, this can be particularly damaging. Such systems should plan to respond to attacks, and to upgrade security without having to shut the system down. The phrase "and then the company is screwed" is never something you want to put in your business plan. Good system design considers what will happen when an attack occurs, and works out ways to contain the damage and recover from the attack. Attacks Against the Cryptography Sometimes, products even get the cryptography wrong. Some rely on proprietary encryption algorithms. Invariably, these are very weak. Counterpane Systems has had considerable success breaking published encryption algorithms; our track record against proprietary ones is even better. Keeping the algorithm secret isn't much of an impediment to analysis, anyway--it only takes a couple of days to reverse-engineer the cryptographic algorithm from executable code. One system we analyzed, the S/MIME 2 electronic-mail standard, took a relatively strong design and implemented it with a weak cryptographic algorithm. The system for DVD encryption took a weak algorithm and made it weaker. We've seen many other cryptographic mistakes: implementations that repeat "unique" random values, digital signature algorithms that don't properly verify parameters, hash functions altered to defeat the very properties they're being used for. We've seen cryptographic protocols used in ways that were not intended by the protocols' designers, and protocols "optimized" in seemingly trivial ways that completely break their security. Attack Prevention vs. Attack Detection Most cryptographic systems rely on prevention as their sole means of defense: the cryptography keeps people from cheating, lying, abusing, or whatever. Defense should never be that narrow. A strong system also tries to detect abuse and to contain the effects of any attack. One of our fundamental design principles is that sooner or later, every system will be successfully attacked, probably in a completely unexpected way and with unexpected consequences. It is important to be able to detect such an attack, and then to contain the attack to ensure it does minimal damage. More importantly, once the attack is detected, the system needs to recover: generate and promulgate a new key pair, update the protocol and invalidate the old one, remove an untrusted node from the system, etc. Unfortunately, many systems don't collect enough data to provide an audit trail, or fail to protect the data against modification. Counterpane Systems has done considerable work in securing audit logs in electronic commerce systems, mostly in response to system designs that could fail completely in the event of a successful attack. These systems have to do more than detect an attack: they must also be able to produce evidence that can convince a judge and jury of guilt. Building Secure Cryptographic Systems Security designers occupy what Prussian general Carl von Clausewitz calls "the position of the interior." A good security product must defend against every possible attack, even attacks that haven't been invented yet. Attackers, on the other hand, only need to find one security flaw in order to defeat the system. And they can cheat. They can collude, conspire, and wait for technology to give them additional tools. They can attack the system in ways the system designer never thought of. Building a secure cryptographic system is easy to do badly, and very difficult to do well. Unfortunately, most people can't tell the difference. In other areas of computer science, functionality serves to differentiate the good from the bad: a good compression algorithm will work better than a bad one; a bad compression program will look worse in feature-comparison charts. Cryptography is different. Just because an encryption program works doesn't mean it is secure. What happens with most products is that someone reads Applied Cryptography, chooses an algorithm and protocol, tests it to make sure it works, and thinks he's done. He's not. Functionality does not equal quality, and no amount of beta testing will ever reveal a security flaw. Too many products are merely "buzzword compliant"; they use secure cryptography, but they are not secure. Home page - Counterpane - Applied Cryptography - E-Mail Security - Crypto Links Bruce Schneier Bio - Blowfish - Publications - Contact Counterpane Bruce Schneier Copyright 1998 Counterpane Systems. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Declan McCullagh Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 03:14:49 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: More on Association for Interactive Media conference Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain [This is the conference Tim was criticizing yesterday. --Declan] ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 10:49:01 -0800 (PST) From: Declan McCullagh To: politech@vorlon.mit.edu Subject: FC: More on Association for Interactive Media conference Netly articles on AIM: http://cgi.pathfinder.com/netly/editorial/0,1012,1155,00.html http://cgi.pathfinder.com/netly/editorial/0,1012,1464,00.html -Declan ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 10:24:20 -0800 From: John Gilmore To: declan@well.com, gnu@toad.com Subject: Re: FC: Association for Interactive Media conference (DC, 2/98) [for forwarding if you like] Note that AIM, the sponsors of the "WashingtonWeb" conference, are the folks who appear to be paid stooges for Network Solutions in trying to keep their ten million dollar per month monopoly on domain names. AIM's coverage of that issue has been completely false and completely biased ("The Internet is likely to break apart on October 15, 1997"; "you may lose all rights to use your trademark in your Internet address forever". See www.interactivehq.org/oic/). They've been deliberately making false statements to stir up sentiment against the evolution of domain names away from the Network Solutions monopoly. I wouldn't promote or attend their conference. There's something going on there that I don't understand -- but I do recognize slime when I see it. John Gilmore -------------------------------------------------------------------------- POLITECH -- the moderated mailing list of politics and technology To subscribe: send a message to majordomo@vorlon.mit.edu with this text: subscribe politech More information is at http://www.well.com/~declan/politech/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: David Miller Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 03:29:04 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: FCC squeezes the ham TV band Message-ID: <34B40059.28DE@avana.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Wednesday January 7 10:22 AM EST FCC Reallocates Lightly Used Television Spectrum WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Federal Communications Commission said Tuesday it had reallocated lightly used television frequencies for use by public safety services. Portions of the spectrum between 746 and 806 megahertz that had carried channels 60 to 69 will be given over to police and fire departments and other emergency services. The remainder of the spectrum will be auctioned off for commercial use. The reallocation was required by the Balanced Budget Act of 1997. The FCC had previously announced it would reallocate the lightly used spectrum in an April, 1997 plan for the transition to digital television. FCC chairman William Kennard said on Tuesday the commission would allow some users of the high channels to continue operations, however. "While recovery of unused spectrum is an integral part of the FCC plan for transition from analog to digital television, I am sensitive to the effects of spectrum recovery on Low Power TV and TV translators," Kennard said in a statement. Such broadcasters may continue operations through the transition to digital television "as long as they do not cause harmful interference to primary services," he said. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Copyright (c) 1997 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved. Republication or redistribution of Reuters content is expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of Reuters. Reuters shall not be liable for any errors or delays in the content, or for any actions taken in reliance thereon From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 04:03:53 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Polycratic government?... Message-ID: <199801072025.OAA32052@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Hi, Is anyone aware of research or writings regarding polycratic political systems? Thanks. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: David Miller Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 03:54:59 +0800 To: declan@well.com Subject: Re: More on Association for Interactive Media conference In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <34B406D5.2A9D@avana.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Declan McCullagh wrote: > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: John Gilmore > > Note that AIM, the sponsors of the "WashingtonWeb" conference, are the > folks who appear to be paid stooges for Network Solutions in trying to > keep their ten million dollar per month monopoly on domain names. > AIM's coverage of that issue has been completely false and completely > biased ("The Internet is likely to break apart on October 15, 1997"; > "you may lose all rights to use your trademark in your Internet > address forever". See www.interactivehq.org/oic/). >From the January 5, 1998 issue of Internet Week, page 14: "Network Solutions, Inc., which registers domain names under an agreement with the National Science Foundation, will have the [DNS] agreement extended six months beyond its March 1998 conclusion to ensure the stability of the system." --David Miller From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 04:41:30 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: Too many "Internet Conferences" in Washington (fwd) Message-ID: <199801072105.PAA32344@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 12:30:42 -0800 (PST) > From: Declan McCullagh > Subject: Re: Too many "Internet Conferences" in Washington > Attendance at this conference will be by invitation only. About 35 > individuals will represent a > variety of backgrounds and perspectives including the computing industry > (such as Internet service > providers, network administrators, and providers of "anonymizing" > services) the legal community, > professional societies, academic institutions, law enforcement agencies, > and other agencies of > government. This is the real fault with the conference mentality... How can anyone reasonably expect 35 people, invitation only or not, to have a clue about any aspect of the industry let alone some sort of birds eye view? I would wager that if we took the top 35 ISP's in the US they couldn't come up with a cohesive expression of viewpoint that would have a lifetime measured in anything more than a few weeks. Pure hubris. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Declan McCullagh Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 05:25:12 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Governments want to change Net architecture, from Comm Daily Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 07:44:57 -0800 (PST) >From: Declan McCullagh >To: politech@vorlon.mit.edu >Subject: FC: Governments want to change Net architecture, from Comm Daily >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Sender: owner-politech@vorlon.mit.edu >Reply-To: declan@well.com >X-Loop: politech@vorlon.mit.edu >X-URL: Politech is at http://www.well.com/~declan/politech/ > >[Apologies to Art for not forwarding this earlier. --Declan] > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 10:28:49 -0500 >From: Art Brodsky >To: declan@smtp.well.com >Subject: comm daily story > >Declan, > Here's the story from Comm Daily, Dec. 17 > >'Optimistic and Damned Silly' > > INTERNET CHANGE FOCUS OF INTERNATIONAL LAW ENFORCEMENT > > Law enforcement officials of U.S. and 7 other industrialized >countries want to make fundamental changes in Internet technology >in order to aid in their ability to track and catch criminals, >Justice Dept. sources said. > > Program to consider changes in Internet architectures comes as >part of agreement announced last week by Attorney Gen. Janet Reno >and Justice ministers from around world after meeting in Washington >(CD Dec 11 p10). However, one leading Internet authority, MCI >Senior Vp Vinton Cerf, said international group's plan wouldn't >work. > > Justice ministers are considering approach similar to that of >Communications Assistance to Law Enforcement Act (CALEA) program in >U.S., which would make traffic from advanced telecom networks more >accessible to law enforcement entities. Representatives of Canada, >France, Germany, Italy, Japan, Russia and U.K., as well as U.S., >agreed as part of "statement of principles" issued in communique >following 2-day session that: "To the extent practicable, >information and telecommunications systems should be designed to >help prevent and detect network abuse, and should also facilitate >the tracing of criminals and the collection of evidence." Several >items on "action plan" issued in support of those principles refer >to working with new technologies to collect critical evidence, >developing standards for authenticating electronic data for use in >investigations and encouraging standards-making bodies to provide >public and private sectors "with standards for reliable and secure >telecommunications and data processing technologies." > > DoJ officials said Dept. may want to talk later with telephone >industry on trap and trace issues, but it's premature to involve >them now in follow-up to international summit. Instead, they said, >they are looking at broader picture of telecom networks that >haven't worked as closely with law enforcement as they could, and >have begun thinking about Internet protocols. Internet operates >globally with common protocols, currently Internet Protocol version >4. Internet engineers are working on next iteration, version IPv6 >(Internet Protocol version 6 -- 5 was experimental attempt that was >dropped). Justice official said that one problem now is that it's >easy to send and receive e-mail with false address, called >"spoofing." > > It would be helpful to law enforcement if information sent >over Internet were tagged, and packets would transmit information >reliably as to where they came from, including user and service >provider, officials said. Loose analogy would be to compare e-mail >messages to tagging of explosives, so law enforcement can track >explosive material to its source. DoJ said new protocols could be >designed to make it easier to authenticate messages and to make >system more reliable. Law enforcement wants to work with industry >to accomplish goal, saying it would help "keep people who are >abusing information technologies from continuing to do it." > > There will be substantial obstacles to law enforcement >concept, however. Not least of them is that IPv6 will include >sophisticated encryption capabilities as part of protocols. Such >security isn't built in to Internet now, one of reasons why >electronic commerce has yet to take off, said Mark McFadden, >communications dir. for Commercial Internet eXchange Assn. (CIX). >That feature will make it harder for law enforcement to gain access >to information, he said. > > Cerf, co-inventor of Internet protocols, said in interview >that law enforcement's concept of tagging e-mail messages wouldn't >work: "To imagine that we would instantly create the >infrastructure for that throughout the entire Internet strikes me >as optimistic and damned silly, at least in the short term. Anyone >who anticipates using tools to guarantee that everything will be >traceable is not going to have a successful outcome." Technically, >such project could be accomplished, Cerf said, but having >administrative infrastructure to administer it is quite different >issue. > > It's possible to have digital signature for every packet of >data, but it would take "an enormous amount of processing, and it's >not clear we have any network computers and routers that could do >that and maintain the traffic flow that's required," Cerf said. It >also would require that each sender affix digital signature to each >piece of mail, idea that Cerf said couldn't be enforced: "Frankly, >the idea of trying to guarantee traceability of that kind is far >from implementable." He said he didn't want to be misunderstood >that his objections were "an argument in favor of criminality." >But Cerf said he worries that "someone relies on what they think is >a technical solution without recognizing all of the administrative >mechanics that need to be put in place." > > Law enforcement has some time to work with Internet community. >McFadden said IPv6 isn't scheduled to be implemented at consumer >level for at least 5 years, possibly as much as 10. There was some >urgency when it appeared that reservoir of Internet addresses would >dry up, but with progress being made to protect addresses as scarce >resource there's less pressure for new set of protocols, he said. > > >posted with permission Warren Publishing > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- >POLITECH -- the moderated mailing list of politics and technology >To subscribe: send a message to majordomo@vorlon.mit.edu with this text: >subscribe politech >More information is at http://www.well.com/~declan/politech/ >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- > From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: David Honig Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 09:33:41 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: a good example of bad crypto hype Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980107171614.007c4eb0@206.40.207.40> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain at http://www.meganet.com/explain.htm you can test your critical thinking skills... ------------------------------------------------------------ David Honig Orbit Technology honig@otc.net Intaanetto Jigyoubu "How do you know you are not being deceived?" ---A Compendium of Analytic TradeCraft Notes, Directorate of Intelligence, CIA From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 08:11:05 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Ruby Ridge FBI sniper to stand trial [CNN] Message-ID: <199801080032.SAA00252@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > FBI SNIPER TO STAND TRIAL IN RUBY RIDGE CASE > > FBI seal January 7, 1998 > Web posted at: 6:32 p.m. EST (2332 GMT) > > BONNERS FERRY, Idaho (AP) -- A judge Wednesday ordered an FBI > sharpshooter to stand trial on a state manslaughter charge for the > death of white separatist Randy Weaver's wife in the 1992 siege at > Ruby Ridge. > > The U.S. Justice Department decided in 1994 against prosecuting Lon > Horiuchi and upheld the decision last year after a long review. But > in August, Boundary County Prosecutor Denise Woodbury filed a charge > of involuntary manslaughter. > > Magistrate Judge Quentin Harden decided there was probable cause to > bring Horiuchi to trial on the state charge. Harden scheduled a > February 13 arraignment before state Judge James Michaud. > > A federal judge is to hear arguments Monday from Horiuchi's lawyers > in Boise that the case should be transferred to federal court. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Information Security Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 08:23:11 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: Sentencing for Electronic Copyright Infringement Message-ID: <199801080008.TAA03811@panix2.panix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > Subject: Re: Sentencing for Electronic Copyright Infringement > From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) > Date: Wed, 07 Jan 98 08:09:32 EST > > Tim May writes: > > When the ninja narc raiders cart our computers off for analysis, I'm sure > > they can find enough violations to send us away for as many years as they > > wish. > > And if Timmy knew a bit more about cryptography than he could learn by browsing > through Bruce Schneier's book, the ninja narc raiders wouldm't be able to find > shit on any of his media. :-) Hey, Vulis, how does it feel to know all your phone lines are being monitored by the FBI? For (among other things): soliciting funds for terrorist groups incl Hamas to kill a couple, and threatening government employees... ---guy Lon T. Horiuchi was indicted for murder today. The DOJ refused to prosecute him: the state will. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: jalonz@openworld.com Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 08:34:25 +0800 To: blancw@cnw.com> Subject: Re: The Digital Society Group Message-ID: <85256585.00837DB3.00@openworld.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >>Without getting into too much detail, The Digital Society Group is >>constructing a pure-technology infrastructure to provide for the operation, >>governance and existence of a complete digital society within a free >>enterprise zone. >The web site doesn't explain what methods you are using to establish these >zones. Do you have a mailing list set up for discussion? The plan >sounds interesting and ideologically supportable, but I'm skeptical. Blanc, I'm trying to get more docs online ASAP to explain things. The physical free zones are very popular in the interational business world, but I as a computer type had never heard of them other than Hong Kong, etc. When a country wants to set up a free zone, they come to Openworld and its partner companies who do everything from clearing land, construction, setting up businesses, schools, hospitals, etc. One of the soon to be required components of a free zone installation is a digital infrastructure to link all of the things together. We're talking smart cards for physical structure security and personal ID, email, web hosting, net access, all kinds of stuff. Since we are building a "country" from scratch, rather than have to automate paper workflows and do document management, the governance processes are designed to be digital from the start. Thus, to provide incorporation services to its citizens, a free zone allows them to sign up via web browser, and the daily maintenance, processing and management of the corporate records is also done almost exclusively via web browser and email. Its fast, cheap, and requires far less labor than a paper-based system. Another feature is that rather than maintaining the records for the customer, the customer can log in via web browser and update their own corporate record. (similar to Internic) This reduces labor even further and reduces the cost of incorporation to around $100 per year making instant offshore incorporation accessible to the general global public for the first time. That kind of solution applied across an entire governance and communications infrastructure make for some radical things to become possible. Another concept being implemented is that each new free zone (being fully wired) can easily replicate records and data with other free zones (they will actually be required to for certain things) and thus a citizen in one free zone can access banking, etc. services (even physical access) in another. So, we see the emergence of a phsically distributed, digitally cohesive network of "corporate states". This lends to applications like data protection and hiding via distributed storage or data sharing via common dataspaces and replication. The technical methods to perform all of this work are a bit touchy. At the risk of starting endless flame wars, I was looking at Lotus Bloats for its replication and hierarchical security structure as well as easy forms to web publishing and workflow management. That got shot down at the thought of actually administrating the mess and also the costs are fairly significant. The final nail in the coffin was the encryption key escrow fiasco with the Swiss. I was also looking at NT due to the nice database-to-web interface and the fact that IIS 4 isn't too bad. But again software license costs are large and who knows if Microsoft is doing, or will do, a key escrow deal for future products? Who knows what they are doing now with NT on the OS level? You can't run around making structures which allow people around the world to move money and communicate anonymously, incorporate and have software agents be owners of property and bank accounts without someone getting very pissed off. Thus, a good solution seems to be Linux in that its cheap, Unix is good for multi-process routing, and the toolkits and components created by the Digital Society can be easily moved into the public domin in some form or another. Also, the export mess can be gotten around in one way or another. Any comments? Any better alternatives than Linux? The coding being done now is either cross-platform or prototype which will be scrapped as soon as the kinks are worked out and the real fun can begin. The Digital Society is purposefully working cheap and small to enable the tools and communities to be deployed at as close as possible to no cost for the end-user - that is the priority. Most things are being coded from scratch to ensure security and keep the costs low. Labor is cheap - when its your own. :) Jalon --------------------------------------------------------------- Jalon Q. Zimmerman, Director The Digital Society Group A division of Openworld, Inc. http://www.openworld.com/ jalonz@openworld.com --------------------------------------------------------------- The government is not your mommy. --------------------------------------------------------------- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Bill Frantz Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 14:03:03 +0800 To: "William H. Geiger III" Subject: Re: Silly Shrinkwrapped Encryption In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 10:36 AM -0800 1/7/98, William H. Geiger III wrote: > at 12:10 AM, Bill Frantz said: > >>At 11:49 AM -0800 1/6/98, Eric Cordian wrote: >>>I managed to find a document entitled "Security in Lotus Notes and the >>>Internet" on the Web. >>> >>>It describes the weakening procedure as follows. >>> >>> "No matter which version of Notes you are using, encryption uses the >>> full 64-bit key size. However, the International edition takes 24 bits >>> of the key and encrypts it using an RSA public key for which the US >>> National Security Agency holds the matching private key. This >>> encrypted portion of the key is then sent with each message as an >>> additional field, the workfactor reduction field. The net result of >>> this is that an illegitimate hacker has to tackle 64-bit encryption, >>> which is at or beyond the practical limit for current decryption >>> technology and hardware. The US government, on the other hand, only >>> has to break a 40-bit key space, which is much easier (2 to the power >>> of 24 times easier, to be precise)." > >>It seems to me that if you step on the correct part of the message, you >>zap the encrypted 24 bits, and cut NSA out of the loop. Of course the >>receiver could notice and refuse to decrypt, which would require some >>software hacking to defeat, but that is certainly doable. > >Wouldn't it be much better just to not use the crap?!? > >Why should we give our money to a company that has shown that they will >sell us out at the first chance of making a buck doing so?? I don't plan on using it, but the Swedes have a bit of an installed base problem. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Frantz | One party wants to control | Periwinkle -- Consulting (408)356-8506 | what you do in the bedroom,| 16345 Englewood Ave. frantz@netcom.com | the other in the boardroom.| Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Anonymous Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 03:11:02 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Fiat's Batch RSA Message-ID: <199801071855.TAA07264@basement.replay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Batch RSA invented by Amos Fiat Described in Crypto 89 and J Cryptology 1997. RSA works as follows. The key owner chooses two secret primes p and q, and forms their product n = p*q. He then chooses a public exponent e relatively prime to p-1 and q-1. His public key is (n, e). To encrypt a message m into cyphertext c, m is raised to the power e, mod n: c = m^e mod n. To decrypt the message, the key holder calculates d as the multiplicative inverse of e mod (p-1)(q-1): d = 1/e mod (p-1)(q-1). He recovers m from m = c^d mod n. For simplicity, below we will write this as m = c^(1/e) mod n, where it is understood that the 1/e is done mod (p-1)(q-1). An RSA signature s on a message m is calculated as for a decryption: s = m^(1/e) mod n. The signature is verified by m ?=? s^e mod n. The time consuming part of an RSA decryption or signature is this exponentiation step. e can be chosen to be small, so encryption and verification is fast, but 1/e will generally be about the same size as n, so many multiplications must be done to raise a number to that power. Amos Fiat describes a method whereby multiple messages can be decrypted or signed using only one full-sized exponentiation. The "catch" is that the messages must all use different exponents with the same n. Here is a concrete example. You want to decrypt or sign two messages, M1 and M2, raising M1 to the 1/3 power and M2 to the 1/5 power. Perform the following steps: M12 = M1^5 * M2^3 I12 = M12 ^ (1/15) This is the only full-sized exponentiation needed. This gives: I12 = M1^(1/3) * M2^(1/5). This is the product of the two values that we want. Fiat uses a trick to disentangle the two values. He raises I12 to the 6th power. The number 6 is chosen so that it is a multiple of one of the two exponents, 3, and is 1 more than a multiple of the other exponent, 5: I12^6 = M1^2 * M2 * M2^(1/5) Therefore: M2^(1/5) = I12^6 / (M1^2 * M2) which is one of the values we need. Since I12 is the product of the two values we want, we can recover the other value just by dividing this into I12: M1^(1/3) = I12 / M2^(1/5) Here is another example. Suppose we want M3^(1/7) and M4^(1/11). (Note that we are using prime numbers for the exponents; the reason will be explained below.) We calculate: M34 = M3^11 * M4^7 I34 = M34 ^ (1/77) This gives us: I34 = M3^(1/7) * M4^(1/11) Again this is the product of the two values we want. As before we will raise this to a power which is 1 more than a multiple of one of the two exponents (7 and 11) and is a multiple of the other one. The smallest such power is 22. I34^22 = M3^3 * M3^(1/7) * M4^2 So we can divide to get M3^(1/7): M3^(1/7) = I34^22 / (M3^3 * M4^2) And we can divide to get the other value needed: M4^(1/11) = I34 / M3^(1/7) This illustrates how to derive two RSA roots using only one full sized exponentiation. A few small exponentiations are also needed, as well as two divisions, but these are much faster than doing the full exponentiation (raising to the 1/15 or 1/77 powers above). Fiat's idea can then be applied recursively. Note that in the examples above we had to take two full-sized exponentiation, M12 to the 1/15 power and M34 to the 1/77 power. We can combine both of these exponentiations into one just as was done above: M14 = M12^77 * M34^15 I14 = M14 ^ (1/1155) Now: I14 = M12^(1/15) * M34^(1/77) the product of the two values we want. We need an exponent which is 1 more than a multiple of 15 while being a multiple of 77, giving 615, or vice versa, giving 540. Choosing the latter since it is smaller we have: I14^540 = M12^36 * M34^7 * M34^(1/77) so: M34^(1/77) = I14^540 / (M12^36 * M34^7) and dividing gives the other factor: M12^(1/15) = I14 / M34^(1/77) These values can then be fed into the expressions above to recover M1^(1/3) and the other three values, all with only one full-sized exponentiation for the four messages. In general, finding the exponent for Ixx can be handled by the Chinese Remainder Theorem. However it requires that the two values be relatively prime. That is why the exponents used in Batch RSA must all be relatively prime, so that there is a solution to the value of the exponent for Ixx. As the number of values in the batch increases, the "small" exponents needed to recover the values increase as well. We saw above that the exponents went from 6 and 22 for the size-two batches to 540 for the size-four batch. This means that you reach a point of diminishing returns where increasing the batch size no longer provides much benefit. Fiat suggests a batch size of n/(log^2 n) messages, where n is the length of the full-sized exponentiation (e.g. 1000 for a 1000 bit modulus). This would correspond to about a 10 message batch for a 1024 bit key. Fiat describes a few situations where it may be appropriate to use different exponents for multiple RSA operations. In the case of a server issuing multiple RSA signatures it could define its public key to be (n, e1, e2, e3,...) and specify that the signature was valid for any exponent in the list. Then it could batch up signatures and use a different exponent for each one. Another case is "pure RSA" encryption, where the message itself is broken into blocks and each one is RSA encrypted. In that case the blocks could use successive exponents from the list, and the receiver could decrypt a batch of blocks using one large exponentiation. There is another case of interest to us, related to the task of searching through messages from a message pool, possibly steganographically hidden. That will be described in another message. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: nobody@nsm.htp.org Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 04:30:16 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: lists Message-ID: <19980107200049.20317.qmail@nsm.htp.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Can someone tell me if the toad cypherpunk list gets *all* the cypherpuink traffic? As I understand it there are three possible subscription points -- does one subscription cover all? Thanks in advance... From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Eric Cordian Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 10:34:09 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: a good example of bad crypto hype In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980107171614.007c4eb0@206.40.207.40> Message-ID: <199801080230.UAA11585@wire.insync.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain David Honig wrote: > at http://www.meganet.com/explain.htm > you can test your critical thinking skills... Clearly everyone in this company is on crack. :) -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law" From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Information Security Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 10:11:51 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: The Digital Society Group Message-ID: <199801080202.VAA11825@panix2.panix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > From: jalonz@openworld.com > To: cypherpunks@toad.com > Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 18:07:24 -0500 > Subject: The Digital Society Group > > Hi all, Hi, stranger. > Openworld, Inc. is a company which sets up free enterprise zones around the > world. The "free zones" are akin to Hong Kong and Singapore and are > self-governing, independent entities as recognized by the parent country. [snip] > A division of Openworld, Inc., The Digital Society Group, has been formed > to apply technology to the infrastructure of the free zones and essentially > mirror them in cyberspace . > > Without getting into too much detail, The Digital Society Group is > constructing a pure-technology infrastructure to provide for the operation, > governance and existence of a complete digital society within a free > enterprise zone. [snip] > Locations are planned for Africa, Southeast Asia, Russia, etc. > > We are already coding... > --------------------------------------------------------------- > Jalon Q. Zimmerman, Director > The Digital Society Group > A division of Openworld, Inc. Firing up the DejaNews traffic analysis tool... Jalon Q. Zimmerman: sneaker@powergrid.electriciti.com jalonz@compuvar.com jalon@ix.netcom.com jalonz@datacore.compuvar.com jalonz@morava.com jalon@hermesnet.net # Subject: I need a challenge!! # From: "Jalon Q. Zimmerman" # Date: 1995/06/19 # Newsgroups: misc.jobs.resumes # # I'm bored with the usual run-of-the-mill jobs and am looking for a # challenge. I want to solve problems, find solutions, and create # things with computers. # # My background is in programming/computer security and I have a # strong creative talent. # # My dream is to work in the R&D environment where I can be given # a problem/idea and turned loose. Good boy. Good boy. Stop slobbering on the carpet... % Subject: ENTERTAINMENT: The CyberGuy Project % From: jalonz@compuvar.com (Jalon Q. Zimmerman) % Date: 1995/10/23 % Newsgroups: comp.infosystems.www.announce % % Follow the crazed wanderings of a technomad. Announcing the CyberGuy % Project. The first fully functioning guy, with a real job, and a real % life, living with a laptop, a duffel bag full of stuff and the wide, % wide world as his home... % % [defunct] Word: "Technomad". Like it. # I am moving. 1995/09/27 Moving from San Diego to... # Subject: Columbus, Ohio - webheads netnerds arthackers wanted! # From: jalon@ix.netcom.com (Jalon Q. Zimmerman) # Date: 1996/04/08 # Newsgroups: oh.general,alt.cyberpunk,alt.rave,alt.2600 # # I'm looking for webheads, netnerds and arthackers in the Columbus area # to form an unstructured group and get a hangout going somewhere in a # Columbus coffee-house or something like that. # # The idea is to throw a bunch of people and some resources together and # see what happens. # # I have just moved to Columbus from San Diego where this type of thing # is a necessity for modern cyberpeople. Since I can't find anything # here, I thought I'd get it going myself. # # If you are interested, mail me and we'll make it happen. Columbus "4DeadIn" Ohio. % Subject: Looking for investor wishing to start an internet provision company in Columbus % From: "Jalon Q. Zimmerman" % Date: 1996/01/16 % Newsgroups: cmh.general % % I am looking for an investor wishing to start an Internet presence or % service provision company in the Columbus, Ohio area. I have just % relocated from San Diego, Ca. and am interested in contributing the % "technical" element to a start-up venture. % % Please contact Jalon Zimmerman at: 614-873-4250 % % Serious inquiries only. Mooer. # From: "Jalon Q. Zimmerman" # Date: 1996/10/20 # Newsgroups: alt.mud.moo # # Hello, # # We are looking to sponsor a moo or some variation thereof as well as a # rather serious Mxx-related website for the sheer coolness of it. Headhunter: Date Scr Subject Newsgroup Author 1. 96/07/19 020 Corporate salespeople wanted sdnet.jobs Jalon Q. Zimmerman 2. 96/07/19 020 Interns wanted - marketing/P sdnet.jobs Jalon Q. Zimmerman 3. 96/07/19 020 Corporate sales - Internet r sdnet.wanted Jalon Q. Zimmerman 4. 96/07/19 020 Corporate salespeople wanted sdnet.jobs.offered Jalon Q. Zimmerman 5. 96/07/19 020 Re: Corporate salespeople wa sdnet.jobs Jalon Q. Zimmerman 6. 96/07/19 020 Re: Corporate salespeople wa sdnet.jobs Jalon Q. Zimmerman 7. 96/07/19 020 Interns wanted - marketing/P sdnet.jobs.offered Jalon Q. Zimmerman ...moved to DC/Maryland... # Subject: Exciting Internet jobs in growing DC & MD business: Programming, # Graphics Design, Web Page Design, Customer Service, and More! # Full-Time and Contractual positions saught. # From: Cool Internet Jobs # Date: 1997/03/13 # Newsgroups: dc.jobs,md.jobs,balt.jobs,misc.jobs.offered,us.jobs.offered, # biz.jobs.offered,prg.jobs,comp.jobs.contract,misc.jobs.contract # # On May 1, 1997, Hermes Internet Service, Inc. will be opening a second # office in Landover, Md., which is located at the intersection of US 50 # and the DC Beltway and walking distance to the New Carrollton Metro # (Orange Line). # # We will continue to use our current location as well, near 7th Street # and Maine Ave., SW, DC, near the waterfront. # # We have openings for four additional people, the first immediately, the # other three on May 1: Resume (snipped): # Subject: html/CGI/db online inet apps - VB/MS Access - Linux/Postgres95 # From: "Jalon Q. Zimmerman" # Date: 1995/06/25 # Newsgroups: misc.jobs.resumes # # DIGICOM # # Developing an HTML interface to telephone conferencing hardware for Logicon, a # defense contractor. Group telephone conferencing can be managed from any HTML # browser via a LAN or the internet. The system incorporates user accounting, # document sharing within a conference, graphical icons and elements including # photographs of the group participants, secure html interfacing, support for voice # encrypted lines. Each server handles 32 simultaneous queries and 32 phone lines. # The application is written in Visual Basic using Winsock 1.0 sockets, MS Access # database tables, HTML 3.0, and MS Visual C++ DLLs. # # # CREDIFAX INFORMATION SERVICES # # Designed and implemented an automated credit information retrieval and analysis # solution. The system automated the office workflow, paper trail, billing, and # communications. The final solution utilized an in-house client-server scheme for # communications, a Paradox for Windows database platform, and an automated credit # retrieval and analysis application in C++. Communications servers were run on OS/2, # database platforms on Windows, and high-speed credit analysis under DOS. This was # the second generation of the system developed at Credit Depot earlier. # # SAN DIEGO COMMUNITY COLLEGE DISTRICT # # Designed a statistical analysis solution to track the usage of learning resources on # campus. Authored several encryption and security applications. # # SAN DIEGO DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE. # # Computer Security - Provide computer security assistance in criminal # investigations. Tasks include data decryption, recovering erased data, # password retrieval, data line monitoring, and protected system entry. Isn't that last item special? ---guy And a possible reason for heading the other way. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Anonymous Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 11:04:05 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <99d5b130b3c4dbe1a86b35eb0bd8f255@anon.efga.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain CRACKING DOWN ON MICROSOFT The Justice Department has a long history of mistaking innovators for monopolists BY LAWRENCE J. SISKIND THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE has painted its assault on Microsoft Corp. as a campaign against tying. Microsoft, the government says, should not be allowed to force manufacturers who load Windows95 onto their computers to include the Internet Explorer Web browser. Close inspection, however, reveals that the DOJ is not guarding against tying -- it is guarding against change. And while the Justice Department has won the first round against the software giant, the question of whether that change is good or ill should be left to the market to decide, not the government. When the DOJ charged Microsoft with violating their 1995 consent decree, it cited Sec. IV(E)(I), which bars Microsoft from conditioning the licensing of any one product on the licensing of another. Microsoft's Windows95 operating system includes the Internet Explorer -- IE -- Web browser. Microsoft openly forbids PC manufacturers licensed to load Windows95 from removing the browser. To Joel Klein, head of the DOJ's Antitrust Division, this is unlawful tying, plain and simple. "We think the evidence will show unmistakably that these are two separate products," he said. "Everybody knows you have an operating system and you have a browser." Everybody also knows that whenever a lawyer begins a statement with the phrase "everybody knows," the consequent proposition will be questionable at best. Mr. Klein's statement was not flat-out wrong. But it was flat-out nearsighted. The only thing "everybody knows" about operating systems is that they are constantly changing. Mr. Klein's statement was not flat-out wrong. But it was flat-out nearsighted. The only thing 'everybody knows' about operating systems is that they are constantly changing. An operating system program controls the operation of the computer, determining which programs run and when. It also coordinates the interaction between the computer's memory and its attached devices. When the world's first PC, the Altair 8800, appeared in 1975, its operating system didn't have much to operate. The product was a do-it-yourself kit, without display screen or printer. Operating systems became more complex as personal computers became more versatile. FAR-FLUNG PERIPHERALS Contemporary operating systems are as far removed from the early operating systems as Cape Kennedy is from Kitty Hawk. They have evolved to manage a growing array of peripherals: keyboard, monitor, disk drives, printer, fax, modem and more. They have also embraced new features and capabilities: data compression, disk defragmentation, multimedia extensions and data transmission technology. All of these features, by the way, once existed as separate programs. Yet no one views their inclusion in modern operating systems as any kind of tying. Which brings us to the Windows95 operating system. When Microsoft began to develop Windows95, then code-named "Chicago," it decided to build Internet technology into it. The early elements of this technology included a Web browser and were code-named "O'Hare." The very first commercially available versions of Windows95 included Internet Explorer as a component. Since then, IE has been repeatedly upgraded, with each successive version more tightly intertwined with the rest of the operating system. The most recent version, IE 4.0, is ubiquitous, and allows the user to explore World Wide Web sites from anywhere on the computer. One can connect to the Web without even opening the browser, and one can view Web sites (called "channels") without connecting to the Internet. What is true about Windows95 also holds true for rival products. Brit Hume recently observed in the Weekly Standard: "The distinction between browsers and operating systems has blurred to the point where it's not clear where one ends and the other begins." Every major contemporary operating system now contains Internet technology. Designing an operating system to access the Internet represents a quantitative, rather than a qualitative, change. The intermeshing of operating systems with Internet capabilities is eminently logical. These systems have always been designed to access information. In the early days, that meant accessing hard drives and floppy-disk drives. With the advent of the CD-ROM, they were designed to access data from that source. As businesses brought PCs into the office, computers became linked together into networks; operating systems were designed to access information from local area networks. The Internet, for all its unimaginably vast dimensions, is just another repository of information to a computer. Designing an operating system to access the Internet represents a quantitative, rather than a qualitative, change. MICROSOFT SLACKING Ironically, this is not a change sponsored or spearheaded by Microsoft. If anything, Bill Gates has been a laggard in this area. His rivals are far ahead and he is playing catch-up. The great proponents of Internet-driven computers have emerged from Silicon Valley, not from Redmond, Wash. Larry Ellison, CEO of Oracle Corp., has long championed the idea of the "network computer." Consider computers as underwater divers. Equipping each diver with his own tanks is wasteful and inefficient. It imposes severe limits on how long and how far the diver can explore. Instead, let every diver be connected to a surface mothership. The connection frees the diver from the limitations and burdens of carrying his own tanks. Similarly, loading millions of PCs with their own copies of software programs is a waste of resources. Instead, let every computer be networked and draw its software needs from the vast store of the Internet. The result, Ellison says, would be high-quality personal computers retailing at about $500. In line with this thinking, Sun Microsystems has developed Java, a language that allows programmers to create Internet-based applications capable of running on any computer, regardless of operating system. Sun's CEO, Scott McNealy, notes that 400,000 programmers (including 2,500 at IBM) are currently writing programs in Java language. The libertarian journalist and futurist George Gilder believes Java will revolutionize personal computing and render proprietary systems like Windows obsolete. If the future of personal computing is indeed linked to the Internet, then weaving Internet technology into Windows95 (and even more intimately and pervasively into Windows98) is not a grab for power. It is a clutch for survival. Which brings us back to the DOJ's decision to prosecute Microsoft for tying. Some have suspected a political bias, noting that in 1992 and 1996 Silicon Valley entrepreneurs were among Clinton's best friends in the business community. Microsoft, on the other hand, has always remained aloof from politics. 'INSTITUTIONAL MYOPIA' But I believe the attack on Microsoft stems from institutional myopia rather than political bias. The DOJ's Antitrust Division may understand the law and may be sincerely dedicated to enforcing it fairly. But it has no way of knowing where the economy is headed or how fast it is heading in that direction. Instead, the division views the economy as static. An operating system will always be an operating system. A browser will always be a browser. Just like timber, coal or oil: Products do not change. Because of this institutional myopia, the DOJ has a history of marching down wrong roads. In 1969, it prosecuted IBM. Fifteen years passed before the department finally understood what every high school techno-geek already knew: The computer industry was dynamic, and Big Blue was not dominant. If the Internet is the future of personal computing, then weaving Internet technology into Windows is not a grab for power. It is a clutch for survival. The hapless campaign against IBM probably did no harm. Other Antitrust Division missteps have. In the 1960s and '70s, long after most Americans had abandoned the neighborhood Mom-and-Pop store for the national chain, the DOJ was prosecuting Topco Associates, a cooperative association of small grocery chains. The DOJ wanted to protect the association's small regional members. It failed to notice the dynamic changes already apparent to the average shopper. The days of the Mom-and-Pop grocer were over. And while the DOJ was successfully squashing Topco, its much more powerful rivals -- The Great Atlantic & Pacific Tea Co. Inc. (A&P), Safeway Inc., the Kroger Co. -- were assuming dominance over the grocery business. The same myopia underlies the decision to prosecute Microsoft. Enslaved by its institutional myopia, the DOJ simply cannot understand that operating systems change. Thus, it sees tying when in fact there is transmutation. Internet-oriented operating systems may be the wave of the future. Or they may be a detour to nowhere. Not everyone likes or needs the endless waits, the superfluous graphics and the flood of irrelevant and unwanted information that always seem to accompany excursions onto the Internet. Nothing is certain in high tech; business empires rise and fall with stunning rapidity. Confronting this sometimes creative, sometimes destructive turmoil, a wise government would recognize its limitations and restrict its role. Whether Windows95 should include Internet Explorer is a question best left to the millions of jurors who make up the marketplace. AUTHOR LAWRENCE J. SISKIND is a San Francisco attorney who specializes in intellectual property law. Mr. Siskind owns stock in Microsoft Corp. He hopes that his pro-Microsoft opinions, once published, will influence the price of his stock favorably. The expectation of financial gain has colored, if not dictated, the opinions expressed in his article. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Anonymous Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 11:02:54 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <2257f75e9d4378c573ebe49c9a1d7acc@anon.efga.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Creative Insecurity The complicated truth behind the rise of Microsoft By Virginia I. Postrel Back in 1983, Forbes ran an article called "If they're so smart, why aren't they rich?" It was about how inventors rarely reap big financial rewards from their creations, and it started like this: "Here are some names you are not likely ever to see in The Forbes Four Hundred [list of the richest Americans]: Franklin Lim. Gary Kildall. Bill Gates...." Oops. The world's richest man wasn't always so. During the last round of high-tech excitement--the personal-computer boom of the early 1980s (which was followed by a traumatic shakeout)--Gates looked like a smart programming geek whose business savvy was dwarfed by the marketing whizzes at Apple: "Their Apple Corp.," wrote the anonymous Forbes author, "has been among the most successful at packaging a product that sells and then selling it at an attractive price." Therein lies a tale. As the Justice Department and a half-dozen state attorneys general push forward antitrust actions against Microsoft, it's worth considering how the company got where it is and what that suggests about the strengths and limitations of markets. There are two main fables told about Microsoft: It has become the dominant, standard-setting software company, and made Gates a multibillionaire, because a) it makes wonderful products and expresses all that is good about a capitalist system or b) it cheats. Both fables turn up especially strongly in statements by people who lack deep knowledge of the industry, and each serves the interests of an industry faction. The truth, however, is more complicated. Considered without regard to price, ubiquity, or compatibility with inexpensive hardware, many Microsoft products are mediocre at best. I am happily writing this article using an obsolete Macintosh operating system and WordPerfect, both of which I find superior to even the latest versions of Windows and Word. Great products did not make Microsoft number one. Good-enough products did. That uncomfortable truth offends moralists on both sides of the Microsoft debate. The company's fans (and its spin doctors) want to tell a simple tale about virtue triumphant--with virtue defined, Atlas Shrugged-style, not only as astute business decision making and fierce competition but also as engineering excellence. Its critics use the same definition. If the products are less than great, they suggest, the only way to explain the company's success is through some sort of sleaze. Or, alternatively, through the innate flaws of the market. So what really happened? How did Microsoft end up ruling PC operating systems and, through them, software in general? At the risk of simplifying a complex story (if only by reducing it to two players), the bottom line is this: Apple acted--and continues to act--like a smug, self-righteous monopolist. Microsoft acted--and continues to act--like a scrambling, sometimes vicious competitor. That pattern shows up most clearly in pricing strategies. Microsoft's approach, throughout its history, has been to charge low prices and sell an enormous amount of software. True to form, the company is currently in trouble with the Justice Department for charging too little--nothing--for its Internet Explorer, by including it in Windows. (The technical legal dispute is over whether Explorer is a "feature" of Windows, as Microsoft maintains, or a separate product that is an illegal "tie-in" and thus violates a consent decree Microsoft signed in 1995.) The low-price strategy makes sense on two levels: First, it approximates marginal-cost pricing, since software, once written, costs very little for each additional copy. Anything above that incremental cost, however small, is profit. Second, and more significantly in this case, lower prices mean more customers. And the more people who use a particular kind of software, the more desirable it is for others to use it too. Although translators help, switching formats is messy and inconvenient. This "network externality" is particularly important for operating systems and Internet browser formats, since software developers and Web site designers have to pick a standard for which to optimize their products. As Gates toldWall Street Journal reporter Jim Carlton in an interview for Carlton's new book Apple: The Inside Story of Intrigue, Egomania, and Business Blunders, "Momentum creates momentum. If you have volume, then people write apps. If people write apps, you have momentum." But if you think you already have a monopoly, you don't worry about momentum. While Apple executives theoretically knew they had competition, they acted as though they didn't. Back in 1983 Apple may have been "selling [its computers] at an attractive price." But the coming of the IBM clones made Apple's prices look downright hideous. In the face of ever-stronger competition, the company insisted on pricing the Macintosh to maintain at least 50 percent profit margins; its "50-50-50 rule" told managers to keep margins up to maintain the stock price. Customers who paid their own personal money for Macs might be able to justify the high price simply because the computers were fun and easy to use. But business managers who paid Apple prices for any but the most specialized applications, notably graphics-intensive work, were either fiscally irresponsible or just plain dumb. Apple's pricing strategy handed the vast business market to computers running Microsoft operating systems, first DOS, then Windows. Microsoft, of course, doesn't sell computers. It's in the software business. You can get its operating system (and run its applications) on all sorts of different machines, whose manufacturers compete intensely. That competition drives down consumer costs, even as machine features get better all the time. Apple didn't want that sort of competition. It not only kept its own prices high but refused to license its software to any other computer maker. That meant even fewer people used its operating system, which further dampened its momentum. Apple, in fact, acted like the ultimate "tie-in" monopolist. You not only couldn't buy parts of its software separately; you couldn't buy them at all without forking over thousands for an Apple-made machine. And Apple has never been particularly good at manufacturing. After the company tepidly began licensing a couple of years ago, Mac clone makers did what Apple had feared: They cut into its revenue. But they also expanded the market, and they made the fastest computers ever to carry the Mac operating system. They gave Apple money for its software, even as they bore the costs of manufacturing and distributing their machines. And they gave consumers more choice, more alternatives to Windows. If I were an antitrust regulator looking for conspiracies, I'd be wondering just how coincidental it was that Microsoft invested $150 million in Apple just about the time Steve Jobs announced that the company was ending the clone program. Such explanations aren't necessary, however. Apple screwed Mac lovers all by itself. Far from the marketing whizzes of 1983 conventional wisdom, its executives were enamored with the cult of the machine, too hung up on the beauty of their product to understand that consumers actually cared about many other things: price, plenty of software, and compatibility with other systems. Quality is not one-dimensional. Apple's arrogance left computer users with less choice than they might have had--or, perhaps, with more. After all, if Apple had slashed prices early on and taken the business market seriously from the start, it could well have ended up in a Microsoft-like position, but without having to share its market with clones. Microsoft would then have been mostly an applications company, selling Excel and Word to Mac users, and we'd be hearing about the evil, anticompetitive actions of Steve Jobs. That seems unlikely, however, and the reason is revealing. Apple's all-in-one-box strategy was inherently brittle. It offered too many margins of error and too few margins of adjustment. The same company wrote the software and made the machines. So if the computers caught on fire, as they sometimes did, or the manufacturing plants couldn't keep up with Christmas demand, there was no alternative outlet for the Mac operating system. Software sales dropped too. No competitive sales force could go after business users while Jobs and company were chasing public schools. All new ideas had to come from within the same closed system. (For a discussion of related issues, see my Forbes ASAP article "Resilience vs. Anticipation". While Apple is based in Silicon Valley, its self-sufficiency strategy more closely resembles those of the minicomputer companies based around Boston.) Microsoft's partner-dependent system proved far more resilient as the industry changed. The company didn't have to do everything itself, and it could reap the benefits of innovations by others, whether in manufacturing, assembly, distribution, or applications software. Instead of the best minds of a single company, it enlisted the best minds of hundreds. And while Microsoft depended on its partners to build the market, in time they came to depend on Microsoft. The irony is that by making alliances and competing furiously--by not acting like a monopolist--Microsoft wound up reaping the benefits of a near-monopoly on its operating system. It is emphatically not true that "when you buy a computer, you already are without any choice as to the operating system," as Microsoft critic Audrie Krause said on Crossfire. Both REASON's production department and I personally will be buying new Macs in the next few months. Translation software makes it relatively easy to go from one operating system to another. Nowadays, it's possible to function reasonably well with an operating system that controls only 5 percent of the new-computer market. The great fear of Microsoft's critics is that the company will wind up controlling everything, foisting mediocre-to-poor products on an unwilling public at ever-higher prices. It's impossible to disprove that hypothetical scenario. But history, and Microsoft's own intense paranoia, cast doubt on it. Just when its quasi-monopoly looks secure, something new--Netscape's Web browsers, Sun Microsystems' Java programming language--pops up and makes Microsoft scramble to maintain its position. So far its resilience has served it well, but the critics' scary scenario relies on more than successful scrambling. It requires absolute security, no future challengers. And that looks unlikely. Consider the smoking gun memo cited by Assistant Attorney General Joel Klein at the press conference announcing the Justice Department suit. An internal Microsoft document, it told marketing managers to "Worry about the browser share as much as Bill Gates does, because we will lose the Internet platform battle if we do not have a significant user-installed base. The industry would simply ignore our standards. At your level, that is at the manager level, if you let customers deploy Netscape Navigator, you lose the leadership on the desktop." I will leave it to the attorneys to divine what it means not to "let customers deploy Netscape Navigator," but one thing is clear: This is not a company that thinks like a monopoly. It is always running scared. There's always the possibility that something new could come along and destroy its franchise. Microsoft didn't get where it is by creating perfect products. It benefited as much from its competitors' mistakes as from its own considerable acumen. And it isn't shy about leaning on suppliers and intermediate customers, such as computer makers, to get its way. In the eyes of its critics, its success is therefore proof that something is amiss in the marketplace. But the market doesn't promise perfection, only a trial-and-error process of discovery and improvement. The fallible human beings who create products make mistakes. They let their egos and preconceptions blind them to what people really want. Or they just don't know enough, or adjust fast enough, to produce the right goods at the right time. That some of Microsoft's strongest current competitors--Sun and Oracle--are gripped by an anti-PC ideology, when customers love the independence and flexibility of personal computers, does not bode well for them. What is striking about the story of Microsoft is how adaptable the company has been. Gates's original vision of "a computer on every desk and in every home, running Microsoft software" didn't specify what sort of software or who would make the computers. It was an open-ended, flexible idea that built a resilient company. What Microsoft has delivered is pretty much what most people want: a way to use computers easily, for many different purposes. Its software isn't always elegant, but that's the criterion of programming elites, not everyday users. And though Microsoft is clearly the big kid on the block, it has enabled, and encouraged, lots of other software developers. Microsoft accounts for a mere 4 percent of industry revenue. As Eamonn Sullivan of PC Week notes, "A lot of companies are making a lot of money on the ubiquity of Windows, providing users with a lot of choice where they want it--on their desktops. That isn't the expected result of a monopoly." From 1969 to 1982, the Justice Department carried on a similar trust-busting crusade against IBM, which had behaved in many ways just like Microsoft. (An earlier antitrust action against IBM had been settled by a consent decree in 1956.) Millions of dollars were transferred from the taxpayers and stockholders to lawyers and expert witnesses. Enormous amounts of brain power were dissipated. Having to monitor every action for possible legal ramifications further constipated IBM's already-centralized culture. The suit was a complete waste. Whatever quasi-monopoly IBM had was broken not by government enforcers but by obscure innovators, working on computer visions neither IBM nor the Justice Department's legions of lawyers had imagined. Big Blue is still big, though it's smaller than it once was. But nobody thinks it could control the world. The world, it seems, is beyond that sort of control. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Brian B. Riley" Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 11:03:53 +0800 To: "CypherPunks List" Subject: Re: cypherpunks and guns Message-ID: <199801080258.VAA23445@mx02.together.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On 1/7/98 3:16 AM, Kent Crispin (kent@songbird.com) passed this wisdom: >On Wed, Jan 07, 1998 at 01:25:45AM -0600, snow wrote: >>I am fairly certain that as an irregular army soldier I could >>inflict a substantial amount of damage upon an occupying military. >>With maybe $20k in equipment and several hundred hours of training, >>you could make >> >> If you were smart, you could do it for a lot less. > >That presumes the enemy is dumb. An amusing fantasy. ... not so .... the US Military has very few really experienced combat soldiers left and most of those are in places where their experience isn't available to the grunt on the line. Most RVN vets are retired ... look just recently at what happened to the Russians troops sent to Chechnya ... all these brand spanking new, highly trained proud young 19 and 20 year old troops went romping off to fight 'a bunch of old men' in the Chechyn Republic ... there was one little problem ... a big hunk of those old men had spent two to seven years in that same Russian Army fighting the Mujahedeen in Afghanistan ... and that 'bunch of old men' kicked their young asses! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBNLRAvD7r4fUXwraZAQHv5wf/S8j1et/Rf0LQu8eH4koWLjmSduaxggsY VMGcY7z2OfLdSrtVAGIcLpfPPdrOk0utmH317xwKIL9SIQIqGYvm7pCdYSv0A4Vx KD49W3pQjhvrhTHZldd8EFrd7Z2thfR1EJL9Vowsnyr4QHt5FvXrBs6k5531iNtN TURAhCzVgpKuMruwwaKMVc+P72mYJl7OM2I2j6ZdEkZOPNxoCVS/0xO8UTlWpLUO 9Suxvi+rJSa4k/HKRsGUrRO/LaFK7abTs/AwLioJlyd5ukXjdPuyY2wza8h1GvC2 fowHb8WGYdcwc45FBhpz3bEiS/PU5t2xHQ9p+/mEkLDknfBSNk01zw== =hiEs -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Brian B. Riley --> http://members.macconnect.com/~brianbr For PGP Keys "In effect, to follow, not to force the public inclination; to give a direction, a form, a technical dress, and a specific sanction, to the general sense of the community, is the true end of legislature." -- Edmund Burke From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Bill Frantz Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 14:22:10 +0800 To: Declan McCullagh Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 12:48 PM -0800 1/7/98, Declan McCullagh wrote: >Lessig is the special master appointed by the judge in the Microsoft >consent decree case. He once wrote: > >>Whether a regulation is >>rational turns on the facts, and what counts as "the facts" turns on the >>theory that animates inquiry into the facts. > >Wow. > >How do we know what theory is the right one, and when we should change it? Theories are normally only changed when (1) it is obvious they no longer reflect observed reality, and (2) they can't be patched anymore. :-) The Ptolemaic theory of the universe is the classic example. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Frantz | One party wants to control | Periwinkle -- Consulting (408)356-8506 | what you do in the bedroom,| 16345 Englewood Ave. frantz@netcom.com | the other in the boardroom.| Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Alan Olsen Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 14:44:01 +0800 To: Eric Cordian Subject: Re: a good example of bad crypto hype In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980107171614.007c4eb0@206.40.207.40> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980107221217.03fd76b0@clueserver.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 08:30 PM 1/7/98 -0600, Eric Cordian wrote: > >David Honig wrote: > >> at http://www.meganet.com/explain.htm >> you can test your critical thinking skills... > >Clearly everyone in this company is on crack. :) And they also seem to be members of the Society for Creative Anacronyms. --- | "That'll make it hot for them!" - Guy Grand | |"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmermann unites all| Disclaimer: | | mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!" | Ignore the man | |`finger -l alano@teleport.com` for PGP 2.6.2 key | behind the keyboard.| | http://www.ctrl-alt-del.com/~alan/ |alan@ctrl-alt-del.com| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Tina (SingPing) Lai" Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 15:09:24 +0800 To: rambam@torah.org Subject: [hey yall DO NOT delete this is the weirdest game....~!]] Message-ID: <34B475DA.2E280EBF@mystop.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain To: Airheadlin@aol.com, SWeeTpny98@aol.com, Tlai@mystop.com Subject: Fwd: hey yall DO NOT delete this is the weirdest game....~!] From: Alyse4112 Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 21:06:34 EST Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) To: Alyse4112@aol.com, OhUSoSilly@aol.com, Ninavc@aol.com,swimgirl12@hotmail.com Subject: Fwd:hey yall DO NOT delete this is the weirdest game....~!] From: RayRay124 Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 03:01:18 EST Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) In a message dated 98-01-05 22:49:10 EST, DimplesF56 writes: << >> To: RayRay124@aol.com, VHSmile@aol.com, nail@home.com, Sak14@aol.com,AZNPL8YBOY@aol.com, ARISTO20@aol.com, JILTED76@aol.com Subject: Fwd: [Fwd: Fwd: hey yall DO NOT delete this is the weirdest game....~!] From: DimplesF56 Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 22:49:10 EST Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) To: Helen Huang , Jenny Young , Jonathan Woo , Margery Lee , Musette Chan , Steven Hu , Thyda Chhor Subject: [Fwd: Fwd: hey yall DO NOT delete this is the weirdest game....~!] From: Kwan Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 09:09:45 -0800 To: Helen Huang , Jenny Young , Jonathan Woo , Margery Lee , Musette Chan , Steven Hu , Thyda Chhor Subject: [Fwd: Fwd: hey yall DO NOT delete this is the weirdest game....~!] From: Kwan Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 09:09:45 -0800 -------------------- Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.175]) by dry.jps.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA16198 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 1997 19:15:10 -0800 (PST) From: Bar111bie Message-ID: <2e2dd6f8.34ab0a14@aol.com> Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 22:14:26 EST To: kwan887@jps.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Fwd: hey yall DO NOT delete this is the weirdest game....~! Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part0_883624466_boundary" Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_883624466_boundary Content-ID: <0_883624466@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII --part0_883624466_boundary Content-ID: <0_883624466@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline From: Babytimd13 Return-path: To: Bar111bie@aol.com Subject: Fwd: hey yall DO NOT delete this is the weirdest game....~! Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 03:42:58 EST Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_883624466_boundary" --part1_883624466_boundary Content-ID: <0_883624466@inet_out.mail.aol.com.3> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII --part1_883624466_boundary Content-ID: <0_883624466@inet_out.mail.aol.com.4> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline From: Babytimd13 Return-path: To: Rndy2@aol.com Subject: hey yall DO NOT delete this is the weirdest game....~! Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 03:56:13 EST Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 97-12-28 19:03:18 EST, you write: << Begin... > = > First, write 1-11in a column. > Then in the first and second spaces, fill any two numbers you like. > Write two males names in the 3rd and 7th spaces. > Write anyone's name (like friends or family...) in the 4th, 5th, and >6th spaces. > Write four song titles in 8,9,10 and 11. > = > Finally, make a wish... > = > = > And here is the key for that game... > = > = > > > > > > > >You must tell (the number in space 2) people about this game in (the = >number in space 1) days in order to make your wish come true. > = > The name in 3 is the one you love. > The person in 7 is the one you like but can't work out. > You care most about the person you put in 4. > Fifth is the one you knows you very well. > The name in 6 is your lucky star. > The song in 8 is the song that matches with the person in 3. > The title in 9 is the song for 7. > The tenth space is the song telling you about your mind. > And 11 is the song telling what you feel for sex....... > = >> --part1_883624466_boundary-- --part0_883624466_boundary-- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Sergey Goldgaber Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 11:57:04 +0800 To: Kent Crispin Subject: Re: Jim Bell... lives... on... in... Hollywood! In-Reply-To: <19980101150542.36875@songbird.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Thu, 1 Jan 1998, Kent Crispin wrote: > On Thu, Jan 01, 1998 at 09:52:20PM +1100, Julian Assange wrote: > > > > Anyone noticed this before? > > No. But there are two obvious differences between this and the Bell > plan: 1) it's not anon; 2) you are explicitly barred from winning if > you contribute in any way to the death. 1 - Anonymity is technically feasable. 2 - This requirement is a legal necessity. Otherwise, the organization may be seen as advocating murder. Obviously, if the "Death Pool" was fully anonymous, there would be no way to tell if the winner had contributed in any way to the death. Thus, I think we may be well on our way to Assasination Politics. - Sergey Goldgaber From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Mark Rogaski Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 12:30:41 +0800 To: honig@otc.net Subject: Re: a good example of bad crypto hype In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980107171614.007c4eb0@206.40.207.40> Message-ID: <199801080419.XAA13414@deathstar.jabberwock.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 An entity claiming to be David Honig wrote: : : at http://www.meganet.com/explain.htm : you can test your critical thinking skills... : - From the first paragraph, which offers this indisputable nugget: "At no point in time does the ORIGINAL DATA ever gets encrypted or transferred in any form or shape." I haven't laughed so hard in a long time. And the grammar adds an even better tinge to the spiel. - -- [] Mark Rogaski "That which does not kill me [] wendigo@pobox.com only makes me stranger." [] [] finger wendigo@deathstar.jabberwock.org for PGP key [] anti spambot: postmaster@localhost abuse@localhost uce@ftc.gov -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 Charset: noconv iQA/AwUBNLRT5piFNf283WlHEQJs7gCg2dNjMxE8A/IDL7Tv8wKzPd2/LBMAn3ZZ IDnY6wp9N0ncZZAwd/wv9TAQ =hYW8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Adam Back Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 08:38:27 +0800 To: billp@nmol.com Subject: brute forcing combination locks (Re: Bruce Schneier, Sandia, FBI and the REAL WORLD) In-Reply-To: <34B3DFB4.6396@nmol.com> Message-ID: <199801072324.XAA00540@server.eternity.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Bill Payne writes: > Bruce Schneier wrote > > and a burglar willing to try all 10,000 is guaranteed to break > into your house. > > Sandia employees Jack Hudson and Jack Menako, both in my division > when Sandia transferred me to break electronic locks for the FBI/ERF > [Engineering Research Facility, Quantico, VA], were TRYING to > defeat combination locks on file cabinets. > > Menako built a frame to connect a stepper-motor to the combination > dial. > > The stepper motor was wried to a PC. > > Hudson wrote the software to try all possible combinations. > > What happened, IN FACT, was that the combination lock wore-out > before the combination which opened the lock was reached. > > Combinations locks are NOT ENGINEERED for such heavy use. Interesting. When I was at [x] they had (and still do I think, hence obscuring name!) 0-9 digit key pad combination locks. I noticed by just casually using various permutations each time I used the locks that there was something anomalous about the way the key pads worked. If the code was 6789 you could get in by typing 56789, or by typing 456789 etc. Clearly this gives you almost a 4 x reduction in the search space. So I hacked up some code to compute the minimal universal door entry sequence number. Joy of joys the "universal code" as it was dubbed fitted easily on 1/2 a sheet of A4 paper at 66 lines by 80 characters per line, and we figured (myself and entertained colleagues) with semi-covert experimentation that with a bit of practice you could break a lock in around 10 mins manually or something like that. It looked quite esthetically pleasing also. The sequence looked something like this: 01234567890124568902346780... which would try combinations in this sequence: 0123 1234 2345 3456 4567 5678 6789 7890 8901 9012 0124 1245 2456 4568 5689 6890 8902 9023 0234 2346 3467 4678 6780 ... I was not able to do it quite the theoretical minimal number of permutations of 2503, but it was only 3 or 4 extra digits I think. I am not sure if you could do better than this, but it was a computational trade off, my algorithm was recursive, and back tracked as it was; I just chopped it off and demanded best solution after 1 hours CPU or whatever. I might have the universal code and source code around somewhere, can't lay my hands on it right now. We dubbed this sheet of paper the "universal door code", and considered pinning it beside the lock :-) These locks looked pretty cheap, and didn't suffer the mechanical failure problem you describe, we probably gave them enough stress testing in our semi-covert experiments. Also it occurs to me that a duty cycle of 10k operations isn't that high. I am left wondering if perhaps you were pushing the units too hard -- would you have been able to break the lock before mechanical failure if you had slowed the rotation rate of your mechanical dial turner? Also, perhaps your mechanical setup was too rough, putting abnormal strain through clunky motion or something? Also, in fact these 0-9 digit 4 digit locks at [x] I think had other problems also, under certain circumstances you were able to type a spurious digit between the digits of the 4 digit code (eg code is 1234, typing 15234 would let you in!) If we had been able to find a rule governing this behaviour, an even shorter universal code would have been obtainable. However it seemed erratic, and interest waned around this point somewhere. They also had a few hex versions with 0-9A-F and 4 digits, which I also calculated a universal code for. They seemed not vulnerable to the spurious digit flaw described in the above paragraph of the 0-9 units. Adam -- Now officially an EAR violation... Have *you* exported RSA today? --> http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/ print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 15:53:38 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: best body armor for cypherpunks [serious] (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801050513.XAA22310@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980107234753.00845350@popd.ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >> What is, in your opinion, the best (price and performance-wise) >> body armor for cypherpunks? Anonymity, of course ..... Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Bill Stewart Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 16:16:14 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: [Humor] Kennedy's New Legislation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980108000200.0084fab0@popd.ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 07:19 PM 1/5/98 EST, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote: >"Evolution in action." >Thank you, Michael Kennedy, for improving humanity's gene pool. It's only evolution in action if it gets them before they've reproduced... Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Adam Back Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 08:37:42 +0800 To: frantz@netcom.com Subject: Re: Silly Shrinkwrapped Encryption In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801080006.AAA00669@server.eternity.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Bill Frantz writes: > > [lotus notes 24+40 GAK design] > > It seems to me that if you step on the correct part of the message, you zap > the encrypted 24 bits, and cut NSA out of the loop. Of course the receiver > could notice and refuse to decrypt, which would require some software > hacking to defeat, but that is certainly doable. Well if that were all they were doing you could just fill it with random numbers, or encrypt the wrong 24 bits of random data with the NSA's public key, etc. and the receiving software couldn't tell without access to DIRNSA's private GAKking key. However, I figure that they could do this... encrypt to the recipient and include in the GAK packet the RSA padding used to encrypt the 24 bits. The recipient gets the 24 bits anyway because he can decrypt the main recipient field; with the padding he can re-create the RSA encrypted GAK packet. Not that we want to help the GAKkers or anything :-) Still as you say even that would likely be a single byte patch or whatever to skip the test. Also as William notes, don't use the crap -- it's only 64 bits anyway even for non-export version, and their reputed motives in smoothing a path to domestic GAK, and even in buying into the KRAP program might be enough to move some to boycott them even if there crypto key sizes were reasonable, which they are not. Adam -- Now officially an EAR violation... Have *you* exported RSA today? --> http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/ print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 14:38:21 +0800 To: kent@songbird.com (Kent Crispin) Subject: Re: cypherpunks and guns In-Reply-To: <19980107001651.29456@songbird.com> Message-ID: <199801080635.AAA01419@smoke.suba.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > On Wed, Jan 07, 1998 at 01:25:45AM -0600, snow wrote: > > > I am fairly certain that as an irregular army soldier I could inflict > > > a substantial amount of damage upon an occupying military. With maybe > > > $20k in equipment and several hundred hours of training, you could make > > If you were smart, you could do it for a lot less. > That presumes the enemy is dumb. An amusing fantasy. No, just that one could bootstrap your fight for a lot less. As long as cops have guns and piano wire is unrestricted, ruthless people will always have access to guns. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Robert A. Costner" Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 14:01:03 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Remailers & N.E.T. In-Reply-To: <2257f75e9d4378c573ebe49c9a1d7acc@anon.efga.org> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980108004628.03b6bbe8@mail.atl.bellsouth.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Perhaps the use of a remailer for this message below is an attempt to escape the criminal provisions of the No Electronic Theft Act. >From: Anonymous >Comments: This message did not originate from the Sender address above. > It was remailed automatically by anonymizing remailer software. > Please report problems or inappropriate use to the > remailer administrator at . >To: cypherpunks@toad.com >Sender: owner-cypherpunks@cyberpass.net >Reply-To: Anonymous >X-Loop: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net > > Creative Insecurity > The complicated truth behind the rise of Microsoft > > By Virginia I. Postrel > > Back in 1983, Forbes ran an article called "If they're so From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Greg Broiles Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 17:52:31 +0800 To: declan@well.com Subject: Re: Question on U.S. Postal Service and crypto (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980108014945.006c9910@pop.sirius.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >This is for a story for Time on the "new" U.S .Postal Service. I vaguely >recall the USPS trying to set digital signature standards and/or serve as >a CA. I'd like to mention this. > >Can't remember the details, though. Does anyone have 'em (or a pointer to >them) handy? See for information about the USPS' plan to act as a CA. -- Greg Broiles | US crypto export control policy in a nutshell: gbroiles@netbox.com | Export jobs, not crypto. http://www.io.com/~gbroiles | http://www.parrhesia.com From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: jalonz@openworld.com Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 15:48:36 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <85256586.0029E630.00@openworld.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain ># SAN DIEGO DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE. ># ># Computer Security - Provide computer security assistance in criminal ># investigations. Tasks include data decryption, recovering erased data, ># password retrieval, data line monitoring, and protected system entry. > >Isn't that last item special? > >---guy > > And a possible reason for heading the other way. guy, tough noogies deal with it... Notice the words "criminal investigations"? God forbid talent could actually be used for a good cause. The incidents in question were actually quite serious (Chinese mafia money laundering via phony real estate deals) and not at all like the porno bbs confiscation crap you'd be thinking of. Besides the DA office reference (I can completely understand about that one), which was consulting work, what's your point in laying someone's life out on a page? Who cares? Yeah, its a lot of stuff, I just happen to work for start-up companies and thus I jump around a lot - given that most of them never make it due to one problem or another. :) jqz From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Robert A. Costner" Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 17:23:10 +0800 To: Declan McCullagh Subject: Re: Question on U.S. Postal Service and crypto In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980108035645.037abe0c@mail.atl.bellsouth.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 02:07 PM 1/6/98 -0800, Declan McCullagh wrote: >This is for a story for Time on the "new" U.S .Postal Service. I vaguely >recall the USPS trying to set digital signature standards and/or serve as >a CA. I'd like to mention this. > >Can't remember the details, though. Does anyone have 'em (or a pointer to >them) handy? A few months back I asked a USPS rep about this, and was told that the idea had been scrapped. I do not know that this was correct. The USPS was going to do timestamping as well as act as a CA as I recall. The timestamping is a action that "postmarks" the digitally signed message. Many attorneys feel this is a very good thing, though I have had a hard time justifying the need for this to some technically inclined people. Try "digital postmark" in yahoo. http://www.aegisstar.com/uspsepm.html http://xent.ics.uci.edu/FoRK-archive/fall96/0328.html An interesting feature of the digital postmark is that the USPS was making the claim that if you receive an email that the USPS send to you that was not meant for you, then you have committed a federal crime when you read it. Additional timestamping services are available perhaps from Pitney Bowes, Arthur Anderson, and http://www.itconsult.co.uk/stamper.htm. My memory on this fails me. -- Robert Costner Phone: (770) 512-8746 Electronic Frontiers Georgia mailto:pooh@efga.org http://www.efga.org/ run PGP 5.0 for my public key From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Mix Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 20:25:32 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199801081204.EAA28274@sirius.infonex.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Tim C. May's reheated, refurbished, and regurgitated cud is completely inappropriate for the mailing lists into which it is cross-ruminated. | | | O | Tim C. May (--|--) | / \ From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Gillogly Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 21:25:52 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <34B4CFF0.858FF03C@acm.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote: > scientists who agree to government secrecy to develop > their inventions are agreeing to a lot more than > mere secrecy. they are committing to a paradigm that > is at odds with science itself, which only advances through > the open literature. Why limit your annoyance to government scientists? Scientists in private industry are in the same position, developing (e.g.) algorithms and analytical methods protected by trade secrets. Society recognizes this tendency and tries to advance science anyway by offering patent protection. You don't make money by giving away your intellectual capital. Seems to me that schools and independently wealthy scientists/foundations are the only ones who don't merit your censure on this count. -- Jim Gillogly Trewesday, 17 Afteryule S.R. 1998, 13:04 12.19.4.14.17, 1 Caban 15 Kankin, Ninth Lord of Night From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: jamesd@echeque.com (James A. Donald) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 13:57:59 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Announcing Crypto Kong, Release Candidate Two. Message-ID: <199801080543.VAA21873@proxy3.ba.best.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -- Announcing Crypto Kong, Release Candidate Two. http://www.jim.com/jamesd/Kong please test. Crypto Kong, like PGP, provides digital signatures and communications encryption. The important difference between it and other products that provide digital signatures and encryption is that it is not certificate based. Instead it is signature based. This eliminates the steep initial learning and management curves of existing products. The user does not need use and manage specialized certificates except for specialized purposes Perhaps more importantly, it also eliminates the threat we saw in England, the threat of the government giving itself a monopoly in certificate distribution, potentially creating the Number-Of-The-Beast system, where you need a government certificate to log on to dirty picture sites, to buy, to sell, to put up web pages. The big complexity and user hostility in existing products is creating and managing certificates. For those who need contracts and certificates, (and with Kong one almost never needs certificates) Kong handles them in an easy and natural way. See the discussion in the web site in the chapters: Linking digital IDs with paper documents or physical presence and Certificates and contracts This aspect of Kong seems to have been insufficiently tested in the beta tests. The key feature of the proposed product is that any digitally signed document can be stored in the database, and itself performs the functions of a certificate, just as a normal handwritten signature does. The user usually does not need to check a document against a certificate to see if it was signed by the "real" John Doe. Instead he normally checks one document against other documents stored in the database that have the same signature. And similarly when he encrypts a document, he does not need to use a certificate to encrypt a message to the one *real* John Doe, he merely encrypts a message to the *same* John Doe who signed the letter he is replying to. At present people have to deal with certificate management problems regardless of whether they really need certificates. For example the most common usage of PGP is to check that two signatures that purport to be by the same person are in fact by the same person. Unfortunately you cannot check one signature against another directly using PGP or any of the other existing products. Instead you have to check both signatures against a public key certificate, even if the authentication information in that certificate is irrelevant to your purpose, which it usually is, which means that you have to download the certificate from somewhere, and the person signing it had to upload it somewhere. As PGP always checks a document against the certificate, rather than against any other document the user happens to feel is relevant to the question, the person signing the document needs to get his certificate properly signed by some widely trusted third party, which is too much trouble or too complicated for many people. The signatures and contracts in Crypto Kong are optionally tolerant of email munging The web pages contain a new web page "Business Vision" which discusses the widespread failure to adopt cryptography, the widespread reluctance to pay for cryptography, and the illiquidity of various products for transferring money on the net, and proposes a path to a solution. Clearly, PGP has had rather poor penetration for business uses, and by and large, people only need to encrypt or sign stuff when there is money at stake. I believe that this product will be more acceptable for the typical businessman than PGP is, because it is easier to use, and existing business practices translate more readily to the identity model it supports than does the PGP identity model. The web page also contains full source code. Crypto Kong is written in large part as ActiveX component, and the use interface and database management code is written in visual basic. The use of ActiveX should make it easy to quickly code products and web page that perform tasks involving encryption. --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG AXOOTHyx0TpTLdyQsBnt7WmaVIo1l4WDGabHKK0Y 4Bxm/YWIEOTOK6zRVH57lP7PENFT5OFN+IR39Fcx8 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "David E. Smith" Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 14:54:14 +0800 To: Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer Subject: The hax0rz are at it again... check out www.unicef.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Although I can't agree with their methods, I really love their motives. In case they fix it sometime soon, go to: http://bureau42.base.org/mirrors/ and click the "unicef" link. dave From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: David Honig Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 02:25:19 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: MS Server Gated Crypto: strong encryption w/ exportable browsers if the server is US-OK Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980108090210.007a6820@206.40.207.40> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain The jist of http://eu.microsoft.com/industry/finserv/m_finserv/m_fordev_g.htm is, MS has US permission to export a DLL containing 128-bit SSL *worldwide* since the encryption is enabled IFF there's a Verisign "SGC certificate" on the *server*. This apparently will work with Netscape servers in addition to IIS. This facilitates gov't-trusted banks doing business with clients with generic MS browsers. And it facilitates MS's growth in the web world. Thoughts: Since US law (*) doesn't recognize digital IDs or the authority of Verisign, this implies the government has enforced some arbitrary judgement calls biassed towards this system, no? Additionally, the US would be seeming to trust the implementation in MS's new DLL which checks for and verifies signatures. All in all, some clever/cunning positioning by MS. This is set up for banks, and the certificates are strong. But they seem like the weak point --could a generic certificate be circulated amongst the Undesirables so they could enable this feature in IE browsers with the new DLL? (*) I understand that the government of Utah now recognizes some form of digital signatures. ------------------------------------------------------------ David Honig Orbit Technology honig@otc.net Intaanetto Jigyoubu "How do you know you are not being deceived?" ---A Compendium of Analytic TradeCraft Notes, Directorate of Intelligence, CIA From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: David Honig Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 02:38:30 +0800 To: Sergey Goldgaber Subject: Re: Jim Bell... lives... on... in... Hollywood! In-Reply-To: <19980101150542.36875@songbird.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980108092108.007c3b30@206.40.207.40> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 10:48 PM 1/7/98 -0800, Sergey Goldgaber wrote: >On Thu, 1 Jan 1998, Kent Crispin wrote: > >> On Thu, Jan 01, 1998 at 09:52:20PM +1100, Julian Assange wrote: >> > >> > Anyone noticed this before? >> >> No. But there are two obvious differences between this and the Bell >> plan: 1) it's not anon; 2) you are explicitly barred from winning if >> you contribute in any way to the death. > >1 - Anonymity is technically feasable. > >2 - This requirement is a legal necessity. Otherwise, the organization > may be seen as advocating murder. > >Obviously, if the "Death Pool" was fully anonymous, there would be >no way to tell if the winner had contributed in any way to the death. > >Thus, I think we may be well on our way to Assasination Politics. > > - Sergey Goldgaber I agree, but "contribute to death" needs to be operationalized. Here's a proposal: If a homicide suspect is arrested within N months, they will be isolated from the net and the owner of the winning ID will have to perform a challenge-response. Since the suspect couldn't have replied, they are different; if a pair collaborated, well, when a hit man is caught, his payoff matrix will usually make him turn in the client. The N-months might be a weakness since there is no expiration time on homicide. But in cases where cause of death is known and it can be proved that the incarcerated is not the winner, it looks good. E.g., a bet that "more than two BATF agents will be blown up in 97" would be safely payable now that those fellows with the short haircuts have been convicted. ------------------------------------------------------------ David Honig Orbit Technology honig@otc.net Intaanetto Jigyoubu "How do you know you are not being deceived?" ---A Compendium of Analytic TradeCraft Notes, Directorate of Intelligence, CIA From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: David Honig Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 02:34:45 +0800 To: Bill Stewart Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980108092357.007c64e0@206.40.207.40> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 12:02 AM 1/8/98 -0800, Bill Stewart wrote: >At 07:19 PM 1/5/98 EST, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote: >>"Evolution in action." >>Thank you, Michael Kennedy, for improving humanity's gene pool. > >It's only evolution in action if it gets them before they've reproduced... > No, if it gets them before they could have reproduced more, that's good too. Also, if their absence hurts their existing spawn, that's selection as well. ------------------------------------------------------------ David Honig Orbit Technology honig@otc.net Intaanetto Jigyoubu "How do you know you are not being deceived?" ---A Compendium of Analytic TradeCraft Notes, Directorate of Intelligence, CIA From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: David Honig Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 02:44:25 +0800 To: Jim Gillogly Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980108093331.007c6100@206.40.207.40> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 05:09 AM 1/8/98 -0800, Jim Gillogly wrote: >Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote: >> scientists who agree to government secrecy to develop >> their inventions are agreeing to a lot more than >> mere secrecy. they are committing to a paradigm that >> is at odds with science itself, which only advances through >> the open literature. > >Why limit your annoyance to government scientists? Scientists >in private industry are in the same position, developing (e.g.) >algorithms and analytical methods protected by trade secrets. >Society recognizes this tendency and tries to advance science >anyway by offering patent protection. You don't make money by >giving away your intellectual capital. Seems to me that schools >and independently wealthy scientists/foundations are the only >ones who don't merit your censure on this count. >-- Nuri was obviously going through the angst of realizing responsibility as a creative technologist. You are adding antibusiness sentiments to this. The fact is, you choose who/what you work on. And face it, many government scientists think they're wearing white hats. As do those in industry and academia, as well as the independant investigator. The British scientist reporting on his discovery of PK was not *bitter* that others found it too. He was explaining the secretive context of its development in one closed shop. He undoubtably thinks his work was Good. It is only some readers who are thinking that the Brit is trying to usurp something. He's not. I thought the Brit's explanation was helpful for understanding PK beyond the confusing complexity of the RSA-implementation of it. It does not detract from the efforts (or patents) of anyone, that PK has been discovered multiple times. ------------------------------------------------------------ David Honig Orbit Technology honig@otc.net Intaanetto Jigyoubu "How do you know you are not being deceived?" ---A Compendium of Analytic TradeCraft Notes, Directorate of Intelligence, CIA From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Gillogly Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 03:05:23 +0800 To: David Honig Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <34B5111C.7129@acm.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain David Honig wrote: > At 05:09 AM 1/8/98 -0800, Jim Gillogly wrote: > >Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote: > >> scientists who agree to government secrecy to develop > >> their inventions are agreeing to a lot more than > >> mere secrecy. they are committing to a paradigm that > >> is at odds with science itself, which only advances through > >> the open literature. > > > >Why limit your annoyance to government scientists? Scientists > >in private industry are in the same position, developing (e.g.) > > Nuri was obviously going through the angst of realizing responsibility > as a creative technologist. > > You are adding antibusiness sentiments to this. > > The fact is, you choose who/what you work on. I'm not adding antibusiness sentiments -- I'm questioning why the Vladster limited his angst to government. I did, in fact, choose to work in private industry, and I'm not opposed to inventors reaping the rewards of their brain power -- and that goes for the inventors of public keys and RSA, who I feel earned their rewards. -- Jim Gillogly Trewesday, 17 Afteryule S.R. 1998, 17:43 12.19.4.14.17, 1 Caban 15 Kankin, Ninth Lord of Night From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Declan McCullagh Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 03:01:54 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Journalism and the Internet conference at Freedom Forum Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 09:53:34 -0800 (PST) From: Declan McCullagh To: politech@vorlon.mit.edu Subject: Journalism and the Internet conference at Freedom Forum [I'm on the "Online journalism, governments and the First Amendment" panel tomorrow. I expect rating systems will come up. --Declan] ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 10:48:22 -0500 From: Adam Powell Subject: Journalism/Internet conf webcast Tomorrow's "Journalism and the Internet" conference will be webcast in its entirety, so those who cannot join us in person will be able to join sessions on line. Webcast listeners will also be able to submit questions and comments via e-mail for panelists during the webcast. Below is the schedule (all times EST): "Journalism and the Internet" conference Rooftop Conference Center The Freedom Forum 1101 Wilson Boulevard Arlington, Virginia 22209 8:30 a.m. -- Welcome and introduction Charles Overby, The Freedom Forum; Richard Sammon, National Press Club 9 a.m. -- Keynote address Speaker: Steve Case, America Online Moderator: Adam Powell 9:45 a.m. -- "Where are we/How did we get here?" Panelists: Llewellyn King, King Publishing; Sam Meddis, USA TODAY; Stephen Miller, The New York Times; Marc Weiss, Web Development Fund Moderator: Don Brown, QRadio 11 a.m. -- "Standards and ethics online" Panelists: Rajiv Chandrasekaran, The Washington Post; Steven Levy, Newsweek; John Markoff, The New York Times; Jai Singh, CNET Moderator: Lee Thornton, University of Maryland 12:30 p.m. -- Luncheon program -- "Sports journalism online: Special case or leading edge?" Welcome: Peter Prichard, The Freedom Forum Speaker: John Rawlings, The Sporting News Moderator: Gene Policinski, The Freedom Forum 2:15 p.m. -- "Online journalism, governments and the First Amendment" Panelists: Donna Demac, Georgetown University; Mike Godwin, Electronic Frontier Foundation; Declan McCullagh, Netly News/Time magazine; Lynn Povich, MSNBC Moderator: Paul McMasters, The Freedom Forum 4 p.m. -- "Politics '98 online" Panelists: Farai Chideya, ABC News; Kathleen deLaski, America Online; Mike Riley, CNN/Time's AllPolitics; Omar Wasow, MSNBC Moderator: Robert Merry, Congressional Quarterly Newseum Broadcast Studio The Newseum 1101 Wilson Boulevard Arlington, Virginia 22209 1 p.m. -- "Journalism and the Internet" public program Journalist of the Day: John Markoff, The New York Times *** We will also have live webcasts of the Saturday programs: Newseum Broadcast Studio The Newseum 1101 Wilson Boulevard Arlington, Virginia 22209 1 p.m. -- "Journalism and the Internet" public program Journalist of the Day: Jai Singh, CNET 2:30 p.m. -- "Journalism and the Internet" public program Technology demonstration: John Pavlik, Center for New Media, Columbia University Discussion: Benjamin Davis, MSNBC Steve Geimann, Society of Professional Journalists Lisa Napoli, New York Times *** Adam Clayton Powell, III Vice President, Technology and Programs, The Freedom Forum 703-284-3553 fax 703-284-2879 apowell@freedomforum.org apowell@alum.mit.edu http://www.freedomforum.org/technology/welcome.asp From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Ian Sparkes Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 17:07:52 +0800 To: Adam Back Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980108100339.00722fc8@q9f47.dmst02.telekom.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >So I hacked up some code to compute the minimal universal door entry >sequence number... > >The sequence looked something like this: > >01234567890124568902346780... We have the same system at my [x], and I have played with the same idea coming up with similar results (my value was somewhat lower - but this was fag packet maths and therefore subject to error). In my fantasies I have also connected this sequence to an array of solenoids which punch in the number while you wait. The locks seem to be able to handle a throughput of around 2 digits per second, meaning the average search time of 10 minutes. Bear in mind that there are 8 of these locks - with the appropriate hardware you could guarantee to be in in less than three mins. The reason that this has remained in my fantasies is that any key changes are predictable - the company is the (until last Wednesday) state owned telephone company =) and the keyspace consists of the area codes for the surrounding regions. And this lock is the only thing that stands between the outside world and 25 Servers and 300 workstations. Makes you think... From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 17:23:02 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: Anonymous Remailers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801080918.KAA28931@basement.replay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Mon, 5 Jan 1998, Robert Hettinga wrote: > > > I noticed on Apple's info about acceptable behavior on their lists, that > > I decided to stop accepting posts from anonymous remailers way back, > when anon.penet.fi was still alive. Some of that is philosophy, some of > that was problems. > > As far as problems, it's the normal stuff -- personal attacks, > mailbombing through anonymous remailers, copyright/slander/libel > issues, all the normal fun and games. Since you can't track users back, > you have real problems policing them. And since anonymous remailers > tend to allow multiple (heading towards infinite) remailing addresses, > the practical issue of how to lock out an abusive user becomes severe. Mailbombing could be a criminal offence. But libel is a civil and not a criminaloffence. Under The Communications Decency Act S.230(a) no service provider is liable for content authored by others. Even if someone use a remailer to slander and libel further action requires private civil action. There is absolute no reason for being concerned about defamation from the operator point of view. The Fourth Circuit Court upheld the service provider impunity defence in a recent case brought against American Online Inc. (Zeran v. American Online Inc.). However,if a moderator vulunterable approves a libelous message the case could be different. BTW, am I correct that criminal libel in no longer considered constitutional? From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 03:39:58 +0800 To: Jim Gillogly Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 5:09 AM -0800 1/8/98, Jim Gillogly wrote: >Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote: >> scientists who agree to government secrecy to develop >> their inventions are agreeing to a lot more than >> mere secrecy. they are committing to a paradigm that >> is at odds with science itself, which only advances through >> the open literature. > >Why limit your annoyance to government scientists? Scientists >in private industry are in the same position, developing (e.g.) >algorithms and analytical methods protected by trade secrets. >Society recognizes this tendency and tries to advance science >anyway by offering patent protection. You don't make money by >giving away your intellectual capital. Seems to me that schools >and independently wealthy scientists/foundations are the only >ones who don't merit your censure on this count. Scientists even in schools and foundations are often secretive, too. The notion that "science" is about blabbing one's latest discoveries or theories is overly simplistic. Many scholars and scientists choose not to publicize their work for years, or decades, or, even, never. Consider Andrew Wiles, Princeton math professor, and the prover of Fermat's Last Theorem. He labored in secrecy for many years, only going public when he felt his results were complete. (As it turned out, they were not, and he needed another year or two to fill in some gaps.) Corporate scientists now outnumber academic or foundation scientists, and they are quite understandably under various restrictions to keep results secret, at least for a while. Science does not "only advance through the open literature." There are many other checks and balances which accomplish the same effect. I could give dozens of examples of where the open literature either did not exist or was not used...and science still advanced. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: David Miller Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 23:53:29 +0800 To: "Robert A. Costner" Subject: Re: Question on U.S. Postal Service and crypto In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980108035645.037abe0c@mail.atl.bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <34B51EC8.2489@avana.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Robert A. Costner wrote: > A few months back I asked a USPS rep about this, and was told that the idea > had been scrapped. I do not know that this was correct. The USPS was > going to do timestamping as well as act as a CA as I recall. The > timestamping is a action that "postmarks" the digitally signed message. > Many attorneys feel this is a very good thing, though I have had a hard > time justifying the need for this to some technically inclined people. I have it on good authority that either the plan has been scrapped or that it has simply gone nowhere (same result). > An interesting feature of the digital postmark is that the USPS was making > the claim that if you receive an email that the USPS send to you that was > not meant for you, then you have committed a federal crime when you read it. I'm not so sure about this, Robert. I've heard the rumor that it is a crime, but I have also heard that if something is delivered to your box, it is yours and you are not required to send it back unopened if it is not addressed to you. I tend to believe the latter, as it is the side of the story shared by USPS employees. It certainly is a federal crime, however, for the indended recipient to get into your mailbox to get a message which was incorrectly delivered to you, however! --David Miller From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Brian Franks <> Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 04:15:48 +0800 To: Subject: Search Engines Message-ID: <199801081853.KAA26269@toad.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I saw your listing on the internet. Get your web site(s) submitted to over 250 of the worlds best search engines for only $39.95! (Yahoo, Lycos, AOL, Excite, Hotbot, Linkstar, Webcrawler, and hundreds others). A professional will view your site and put together a list of the best key words and submit your site: mailing you the computer print out of ALL the search engines your site(s) were submitted to. (you should have in 5-10 days) To put your web site in the fast lane and receive more traffic, mail your check for only $39.95 to NetWorld at the below address. To start your submission today, fax a copy of the check you are mailing to (760) 639-3551 and be SURE to include BOTH the web site address and email address for each site you are having submitted. This is a one time fee. Mail Checks to NetWorld PO Box 326 Oceanside, CA. 92049 Sincerely, Brian Franks NetWorld http://www.max2001isp.com/networld/submit.htm (800) 484-2621 X5568 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Bill Stewart Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 04:43:29 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: FWD: AES Update - Known Answer Tests, Monte Carlo Tests, syntax, and formats Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980108111305.0088ba60@popd.ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >X-Sender: foti@csmes.ncsl.nist.gov >Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 16:41:40 -0500 >To: smid@csmes.ncsl.nist.gov >From: Jim Foti >Subject: AES Update - Known Answer Tests, Monte Carlo Tests, syntax, > and formats > >Folks, > >A Happy New Year to you all! 1998 should be quite exciting and hectic for >all of us involved in the AES development effort. > >Here is the latest news regarding AES. I have just posted Known Answer >Test and Monte Carlo Test documentation on our AES home page. The actual >link is: . > >Information on the API should be made available within several weeks - we >are actively and diligently working on that. When that information is >posted, I will send you a notification message similar to this one. > >In addition, we will soon have a survey for you which will be used to >expedite the exportability of AES analysis packages (which will be made >available when we announce the "complete and proper" submissions later this >summer). More information to follow soon. > >As with past messages, this is being sent to all persons who have expressed >an interest in the AES development effort (one way or another) within the >last year. > >Kindest regards, >Jim > > > >******************************************************************* >Jim Foti > >Security Technology Group >Computer Security Division >National Institute of Standard and Technology (NIST) > >TEL: (301) 975-5237 >FAX: (301) 948-1233 > >******************************************************************* > > From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 02:37:38 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: Question on U.S. Postal Service and crypto (fwd) Message-ID: <199801081753.LAA03063@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 10:45:28 -0800 > From: David Miller > Subject: Re: Question on U.S. Postal Service and crypto > I'm not so sure about this, Robert. I've heard the rumor that it is a crime, > but I have also heard that if something is delivered to your box, it is yours > and you are not required to send it back unopened if it is not addressed to > you. I tend to believe the latter, as it is the side of the story shared by > USPS employees. The way it works is if a company send you (ie addressed to you or your physical address) and *then* attempts to recoup costs for the product or item delivered *and* you did not request the item *then* it is yours. It must be either addressed to you or the occupant of that delivery address, it is important to note that the test in all this is whether you requested something from the company. If the item is specificaly addressed to a 3rd party it is a crime to open it. I haven't looked into what the requirements for re-delivery are, as far as I am aware you could either return it to the post office for dead-letter filing or dump it in the trash. > It certainly is a federal crime, however, for the indended recipient to get > into your mailbox to get a message which was incorrectly delivered to you, > however! Technicaly, it is a crime for *you* to put stuff in your mailbox. When the home pick-up was eliminated a few years ago (supposedly because of the drug and bomb threat) the mailbox on your house or in your apartment was turned into an *exclusive* delivery point for the USPS. When you or I ask somebody to drop it in the box because we are not home we are technicaly committing a crime. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "S. M. Halloran" Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 18:21:47 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: Anonymous Remailers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801081014.MAA06679@ankara.duzen.com.tr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On 8 Jan 98, Anonymous was found to have commented thusly: > On Mon, 5 Jan 1998, Robert Hettinga wrote: > > > > I noticed on Apple's info about acceptable behavior on their lists, that > > > > I decided to stop accepting posts from anonymous remailers way back, > > when anon.penet.fi was still alive. Some of that is philosophy, some of > > that was problems. > > > > As far as problems, it's the normal stuff -- personal attacks, > > mailbombing through anonymous remailers, copyright/slander/libel > > issues, all the normal fun and games. Since you can't track users back, > > you have real problems policing them. And since anonymous remailers > > tend to allow multiple (heading towards infinite) remailing addresses, > > the practical issue of how to lock out an abusive user becomes severe. > Mailbombing could be a criminal offence. > But libel is a civil and not a criminaloffence. > Under The Communications Decency Act S.230(a) no service provider is > liable for content authored by others. > Even if someone use a remailer to slander and libel further action > requires private civil action. > There is absolute no reason for being concerned about defamation from the > operator point of view. > The Fourth Circuit Court upheld the service provider impunity defence in > a recent case > brought against American Online Inc. (Zeran v. American Online Inc.). > However,if a moderator vulunterable approves a libelous message the case > could be different. > BTW, am I correct that criminal libel in no longer considered constitutional? Depends on whose constitution you are reading. In the country where I reside, the politicians use libel laws to avoid accountability to the voting public and to get at journalists with both civil and, I am pretty sure, criminal penalties. Journalism is a job with rather unusual occupational hazards in this particular country, in fact, with the largest number of murders of journalists taking place here, often by the police or some 'civil authority', who are rather brazen about it and characterize any journalist not in the pocket as a sympathizer of a cause for which the public is willing to do a lynching. (The military, which operates its own 'state security' court system here, just throws them in the lockup until they find a way to escape.) Sam Donaldson would have been history long ago here. Mitch Halloran Research (Bio)chemist Duzen Laboratories Group Ankara TURKEY mitch@duzen.com.tr other job title: Sequoia's (dob 12-20-95) daddy From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 05:44:43 +0800 To: David Miller Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 3:26 PM -0800 1/8/98, David Miller wrote: >Tim May wrote: > >> Consider Andrew Wiles, Princeton math professor, and the prover of Fermat's >> Last Theorem. He labored in secrecy for many years, only going public when >> he felt his results were complete. (As it turned out, they were not, and he >> needed another year or two to fill in some gaps.) > >You may have seen the same TV show I saw on him. I really enjoyed it. No, I didn't get my information from television. I presume you mean the "Nova" show some months back. >Is there any evidence that he got (ahem) outside funding for his project? >In the back of my paranoid mind, I wondered that since he was dealing with >elliptic curves and modular arithmetic if... I mean, how did he pay his >mortgage? The show implied that he was not doing any real teaching most >of that time, and if no one at the school knew of his work, then where was >the money coming from? Why don't you use the Web and report what you find? I'm not inclined to go out and do this research to answer your questions. (I just found 800 hits on his name, including biographical material.) If, by the way, you are surmising that he may've received NSA funding, this seems dubious. Just because "elliptic functions" are involved.... In any case, his salary was paid by Princeton for most or all of those years. As he had no equipment to buy, no students to support...his costs were low. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 05:50:42 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Re: Remailers & N.E.T. In-Reply-To: <2257f75e9d4378c573ebe49c9a1d7acc@anon.efga.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain [A reminder: people continue to use the "cypherpunks@toad.com" address. Please start using one of the real addresses!] At 9:46 PM -0800 1/7/98, Robert A. Costner wrote: >Perhaps the use of a remailer for this message below is an attempt to >escape the criminal provisions of the No Electronic Theft Act. > >>From: Anonymous Yep, expect a lot more of this. As the Copyright Police descend on more "violators" of the NETA, more folks will realize the remailers are their best protection. (Though the SPA and others may then go after the remailers. Ironically, the CDA exempted remailers--though not by name--from liability for messages.) --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Cindy Cohn Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 05:26:58 +0800 To: Simon Spero Subject: Re: How about a Bay Area Cypherpunks meeting 1/17/98? Message-ID: <199801082007.MAA29096@gw.quake.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 11:03 PM 12/20/97 -0500, Simon Spero wrote: >On Sat, 20 Dec 1997, Bill Stewart wrote: > >The 17th also happens to be just after a W3C meeting in Palo Alto. I was >planning to spend the day hanging at the mall with Chelsea, but this could >be fun too... I'm sorry, I won't be available on January 17th. Cindy ************************ Cindy A. Cohn McGlashan & Sarrail, P. C. 177 Bovet Road, 6th Floor San Mateo, CA 94402 (650) 341-2585 (tel) (650)341-1395 (fax) Cindy@McGlashan.com http://www.McGlashan.com From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 06:09:18 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Jalon'sWorld and Evil Money Laundering In-Reply-To: <85256586.0029E630.00@openworld.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 11:37 PM -0800 1/7/98, jalonz@openworld.com wrote: >Notice the words "criminal investigations"? God forbid talent could >actually be used for a good cause. The incidents in question were actually >quite serious (Chinese mafia money laundering via phony real estate deals) >and not at all like the porno bbs confiscation crap you'd be thinking of. And what is morally wrong with "money laundering"? Seems to me a person's money is his to do with it as he pleases...it's only governments that call some actions "money laundering." Just as they call some speech "information laundering." And do you think your "Digital Society" notion (which we've seen many times before, usually involving floating, offshore entities) will somehow not attract or involve "Chinese mafia money launderers"? Do you plan to implement key escrow so you can monitor what your residents are doing with each other? Do you plan to become a floating police state so as to stop this evil "money laundering"? I don't think you've quite grasped the significance of strong crypto and cyberspace. (For starters, an intentional community in cyberspace, situated in no particular country, and backed by strong crypto, digital escrow systems (real escrow, of course), reputation systems, etc. is a far better place to do business of certain sorts than is "Jalon'sWorld.") I suspect that Guy is right, that your "Digital Society" shtick is just the latest in your long series of "new businesses" started in many places in the country. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Graham-John Bullers Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 06:09:25 +0800 To: Mix Subject: Re: your mail In-Reply-To: <199801081204.EAA28274@sirius.infonex.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Thu, 8 Jan 1998, Mix wrote: I think Vulis needs each of us to send ten copies of this back to him. > Tim C. May's reheated, refurbished, and regurgitated cud is > completely inappropriate for the mailing lists into which it is > cross-ruminated. > > | | > | O | Tim C. May > (--|--) > | > / \ > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Graham-John Bullers Moderator of alt.2600.moderated ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ email : : ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://www.freenet.edmonton.ab.ca/~real/index.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Trei, Peter" Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 04:13:12 +0800 To: "'David Honig'" Subject: RE: MS Server Gated Crypto: strong encryption w/ exportable browsers if the server is US-OK Message-ID: <6B5344C210C7D011835C0000F80127668B15D0@exna01.securitydynamics.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Netscape got this deal quite some time ago, so it's hardly a special priviliege for MS. It lets certain (trusted by the US government) servers to use strong encryption with US products outside of the US. Peter Trei Disclaimer: I am not speaking for my employer. > ---------- > From: David Honig[SMTP:honig@otc.net] > Reply To: David Honig > Sent: Thursday, January 08, 1998 12:02 PM > To: cypherpunks@toad.com > Subject: MS Server Gated Crypto: strong encryption w/ exportable > browsers if the server is US-OK > > > The jist of > http://eu.microsoft.com/industry/finserv/m_finserv/m_fordev_g.htm > is, MS has US permission to export a DLL containing 128-bit SSL > *worldwide* > since > the encryption is enabled IFF there's a Verisign "SGC certificate" on > the > *server*. > This apparently will work with Netscape servers in addition to IIS. [...] > ------------------------------------------------------------ > David Honig Orbit Technology > honig@otc.net Intaanetto Jigyoubu > > "How do you know you are not being deceived?" > ---A Compendium of Analytic TradeCraft Notes, > Directorate of Intelligence, CIA > > > > > > > > > > > > From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Marshall Clow Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 07:00:54 +0800 To: "Robert A. Costner" Subject: Re: Remailers & N.E.T. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 1:25 PM -0800 1/8/98, Robert A. Costner wrote: >At 12:47 PM 1/8/98 -0800, Tim May wrote: >>(Though the SPA and others may then go after the remailers. Ironically, the >>CDA exempted remailers--though not by name--from liability for messages.) > >Unfortunately you are semi wrong here. The CDA specifically does not cover >Intellectual property matters, and the SPA has consistently insisted that >the ISPs are liable for what their users do with copyrighted materials. > I had a professor in college who called this kind of argument "Proof by repeated assertion". That is what the SPA (a private organization) is doing. -- Marshall Marshall Clow Adobe Systems Warning: Objects in calendar are closer than they appear. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Information Security Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 05:04:02 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Vulis again Message-ID: <199801081949.OAA25833@panix2.panix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > Tim C. May's reheated, refurbished, and regurgitated cud is > completely inappropriate for the mailing lists into which it is > cross-ruminated. > > | | > | O | Tim C. May > (--|--) > | > / \ Talk about reheated, refurbished, and regurgitated... Vulis must be getting old. ---guy So, die, already. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Adam Back Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 06:32:29 +0800 To: pooh@efga.org Subject: time-stamp server uses (Re: Question on U.S. Postal Service and crypto) In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980108035645.037abe0c@mail.atl.bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <199801081450.OAA00500@server.eternity.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Robert Costner writes: > [...] The timestamping is a action that "postmarks" the digitally > signed message. Many attorneys feel this is a very good thing, > though I have had a hard time justifying the need for this to some > technically inclined people. One use for time-stamping is to allow digital signatures to out-live the validity period of a given public private key pair. If the time-stamped signature shows that the document was signed during the life-time of the signing key pair this provides additional assurance that the signature is still valid despite the fact that the key is now marked as expired, or was say later compromised and revoked. Lots of other uses for time-stamping services also; I thought of a use for them in the eternity service in preventing race conditions. Adam -- Now officially an EAR violation... Have *you* exported RSA today? --> http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/ print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 05:16:03 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: The Digital Society Group Message-ID: <199801081954.OAA26406@panix2.panix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > From jalonz@openworld.com Thu Jan 8 02:19:34 1998 > Received: from openworld.com (www.openworld.com [205.157.133.52]) > by mail1.panix.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/PanixM1.3) with SMTP id CAA24973 > for ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 02:19:34 -0500 (EST) > From: jalonz@openworld.com > Received: by openworld.com(Lotus SMTP MTA SMTP v4.6 (462.2 9-3-1997)) id 85256586.00285987 ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 02:20:43 -0500 > X-Lotus-FromDomain: OPENWORLD.COM > To: Information Security , cyberpunks@toad.net Cyberpunks? You really know how to score points! > Message-ID: <85256586.00280ED7.00@openworld.com> > Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 02:22:05 -0500 > Subject: Re: The Digital Society Group > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Status: R > > > ># SAN DIEGO DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE. > ># > ># Computer Security - Provide computer security assistance in criminal > ># investigations. Tasks include data decryption, recovering erased > data, > ># password retrieval, data line monitoring, and protected system entry. > > > >Isn't that last item special? > > > >---guy > > > > And a possible reason for heading the other way. > > guy, > > tough noogies > > deal with it... > > Notice the words "criminal investigations"? God forbid talent could > actually be used for a good cause. The incidents in question were actually > quite serious (Chinese mafia money laundering via phony real estate deals) > and not at all like the porno bbs confiscation crap you'd be thinking of. > > :) > jqz Just curious what your reaction would be to that ambiguous statement. Having done DA support, I expect you are quite serious about heading the other way to give users security and anonymity. How do you justify both, since the "bad guys" would benefit? ---- It's the other stuff: that you flit around (people posting "Where are you Jalon Q. Zimmerman?"), that The Digital Society doesn't have its own domain, but is hosted by some other company called "OpenWorld", which has AOL contact addresses... Who is Mark Frazier, who owns OpenWorld, how long has it been in business, what is your relationship to them, what is your job description? Is OpenWorld another startup that is going to go ? The OpenWorld pages read like any other company BS, and you've given yourself the lofty title "Director". Yeah, and we have Sir Timothy May, Dr. Dim Vulvis, etc. You're about 26, and full of hot air. ---guy You mean well. ;-) From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Paul Bradley Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 00:20:25 +0800 To: Adam Back Subject: Re: Silly Shrinkwrapped Encryption In-Reply-To: <199801062128.VAA00264@server.eternity.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > > I haven't seen the USG RSA key -- if it's 512 bits, that would be a humorous > > next factoring target. Talking of factoring I wonder if anyone on the list has seen the article in this months new scientist regarding a new link found between energy levels in hydrogen atoms and generation of large primes, I don`t remember the details (I only scanned the article as even the elementary explanation of the physics involved was beyond me), The thrust of the article was that work was in progress on a variant of this that could factor large numbers significantly faster than current methods. Anyone with more background in this sort of thing care to comment? Datacomms Technologies data security Paul Bradley, Paul@fatmans.demon.co.uk Paul@crypto.uk.eu.org, Paul@cryptography.uk.eu.org Http://www.cryptography.home.ml.org/ Email for PGP public key, ID: FC76DA85 "Don`t forget to mount a scratch monkey" From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Paul Bradley Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 01:18:36 +0800 To: Wei Dai Subject: Re: cypherpunks and guns In-Reply-To: <19980106005136.23824@eskimo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > I don't understand why there is so much talk about guns here lately. > Unless someone comes up with a weapon that has some very unusual economic > properties, individuals cannot hope to compete with governments in the > domain of deadly force. If we have to resort to physical violence, we've > already lost! Ready availablity of defensive weaponry to citizens does create very unusual circumstances in that a motivated population can defeat the government by pure force of numbers, the fact is, the population is not motivated and most of the sheeple swallow the state BS, and just in case, most governments restrict citizens access to weapons and ignore the citizens right to defend themselves against attack (not that this will stop those of us who are motivated). Paul Bradley, who may or may not be prepared to defend himself. Datacomms Technologies data security Paul Bradley, Paul@fatmans.demon.co.uk Paul@crypto.uk.eu.org, Paul@cryptography.uk.eu.org Http://www.cryptography.home.ml.org/ Email for PGP public key, ID: FC76DA85 "Don`t forget to mount a scratch monkey" From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: David Miller Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 05:30:27 +0800 To: Tim May Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <34B560A2.2F2C@avana.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Tim May wrote: > Consider Andrew Wiles, Princeton math professor, and the prover of Fermat's > Last Theorem. He labored in secrecy for many years, only going public when > he felt his results were complete. (As it turned out, they were not, and he > needed another year or two to fill in some gaps.) You may have seen the same TV show I saw on him. I really enjoyed it. Is there any evidence that he got (ahem) outside funding for his project? In the back of my paranoid mind, I wondered that since he was dealing with elliptic curves and modular arithmetic if... I mean, how did he pay his mortgage? The show implied that he was not doing any real teaching most of that time, and if no one at the school knew of his work, then where was the money coming from? --David Miller From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Robert A. Costner" Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 05:36:12 +0800 To: David Miller Subject: Re: Question on U.S. Postal Service and crypto In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980108035645.037abe0c@mail.atl.bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980108152654.03ba8028@mail.atl.bellsouth.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 10:45 AM 1/8/98 -0800, David Miller wrote: >> An interesting feature of the digital postmark is that the USPS was making >> the claim that if you receive an email that the USPS send to you that was >> not meant for you, then you have committed a federal crime when you read it. > >I'm not so sure about this, Robert. I've heard the rumor that it is a crime, >but I have also heard that if something is delivered to your box, it is yours >and you are not required to send it back unopened if it is not addressed to >you. I tend to believe the latter, as it is the side of the story shared by >USPS employees. I wasn't commenting on the legality, but on the fact that the USPS web page was making the claim that it was a crime. Apparently whoever wrote the legal disclaimer felt that email could be misdelivered in the same fashion in which postal mail could be misdelivered and was making this claim. I found the claim to be nutty and made me think they didn't know what they were doing. -- Robert Costner Phone: (770) 512-8746 Electronic Frontiers Georgia mailto:pooh@efga.org http://www.efga.org/ run PGP 5.0 for my public key From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: kozmo killah Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 09:22:15 +0800 To: SpdrMan@aotto.com Subject: Re: System Message-ID: <19980108235246.12395.rocketmail@send1b.yahoomail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain which system did you want? ---"Adrian J. Otto" wrote: > > Cosmos, > > Ok, I want to buy. Tell me more details. > > Adrian > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Declan McCullagh Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 09:02:39 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: "Trade a Tape, Go to Jail?" from Wired News Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 18:46:37 -0500 From: Steve Silberman To: declan@well.com Subject: Re: FC: How long you'll be in jail for copyright violations Declan: An interesting corrollary to the Netly story - I wrote an article for Wired News today that might be of interest to anyone who trades tapes on the Net, especially those who post their "lists" to the Web and accept cash for trades - even when there is no profit involved. "Trade a Tape, Go to Jail?" http://www.wired.com/news/news/culture/story/9532.html Steve ********************************** Steve Silberman Senior Culture Writer WIRED News http://www.wired.com/ *********************************** From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 06:43:05 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Austin Cypherpunks - Physical Meeting - Sat. Jan. 17, 1998 Message-ID: <199801082209.QAA04856@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Hi, The Austin Cypherpunks will be holding a physical meeting on Saturday, January 17th, 1998. It will be from 6-7pm at Flipnotics on Barton Springs Rd. The meeting is open to all. If you would like directions please send a note to austin-cpunks@ssz.com. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "William H. Geiger III" Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 07:32:13 +0800 To: Information Security Subject: Re: The Digital Society Group In-Reply-To: <199801081954.OAA26406@panix2.panix.com> Message-ID: <199801082237.RAA09999@users.invweb.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In <199801081954.OAA26406@panix2.panix.com>, on 01/08/98 at 02:54 PM, Information Security said: >Having done DA support, I expect you are quite serious >about heading the other way to give users security >and anonymity. How do you justify both, since the >"bad guys" would benefit? Well just because the DA says someone is a BadGuy(TM) does not make it so. I for one would feel safer with the majority of BadGuys(TM) as neighbors than I would with Lawyers and DA's. :) - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a-sha1 Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBNLVSzo9Co1n+aLhhAQHhlgP/ajGh6pYuVrvzWIhPXKNv02HZAigRHgk2 z0sXTMZt+K0LDOx6gC6RGtiYtjOcQeoFvnGiw10PSu/6R7L5FXE/EmTI8Mpatx8b vW5Ql89HBwZFOd3UwCQ/g4uFQTotUocXMyCLZszhkHAvPywDMU3nHDaJXXQgOIx8 z1gSN9T6G3g= =+3Pc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Robert A. Costner" Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 06:29:13 +0800 To: Tim May Subject: Re: Remailers & N.E.T. In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980108004628.03b6bbe8@mail.atl.bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980108162541.0371f1f0@mail.atl.bellsouth.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 12:47 PM 1/8/98 -0800, Tim May wrote: >(Though the SPA and others may then go after the remailers. Ironically, the >CDA exempted remailers--though not by name--from liability for messages.) Unfortunately you are semi wrong here. The CDA specifically does not cover Intellectual property matters, and the SPA has consistently insisted that the ISPs are liable for what their users do with copyrighted materials. -- Robert Costner Phone: (770) 512-8746 Electronic Frontiers Georgia mailto:pooh@efga.org http://www.efga.org/ run PGP 5.0 for my public key From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 09:43:24 +0800 To: Jim Gillogly Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality In-Reply-To: <34B4CFF0.858FF03C@acm.org> Message-ID: <199801090031.QAA01391@netcom11.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote: >> scientists who agree to government secrecy to develop >> their inventions are agreeing to a lot more than >> mere secrecy. they are committing to a paradigm that >> is at odds with science itself, which only advances through >> the open literature. > >Why limit your annoyance to government scientists? Scientists >in private industry are in the same position, developing (e.g.) >algorithms and analytical methods protected by trade secrets. >Society recognizes this tendency and tries to advance science >anyway by offering patent protection. a patent is not at all the same as a secrecy order issued by the NSA, and shame on you for suggesting so. we both know you are far more intelligent than this, and this is a feeble argument. how can you possibly compare the two cases? in one case, there is no knowledge whatsoever allowed to leak from a government agency. in the other case, the patent is published in a government forum for searching by anyone. there is no SECRECY in a patent, it in fact is a PUBLIC DECLARATION OF OWNERSHIP supported by a DISCLOSURE system. the NSA and all secret agencies are fundamentally ANTI DISCLOSURE and use their supposed claims of NATIONAL SECURITY to EVADE ACCOUNTABILITY TO THE PUBLIC and even the namby-pamby, gutless, souless BUREACRATS in congress. Jim G., how many scientists are now working on government WEAPONRY programs? how much money of taxes is being funneled to them? and you compare them with private sector scientists who are scrounging to make ends meet in this twisted con game we call the modern economy? Chomsky is right, its WELFARE FOR BUSINESS via vast subsidies to the so-called "defense" industry. its nothing but WAR TOYS FOR WAR MONGERS. You don't make money by >giving away your intellectual capital. Seems to me that schools >and independently wealthy scientists/foundations are the only >ones who don't merit your censure on this count. what does this have to do with the NSA or weapons development, to which I was referring to in my essay? neither has anything to do with making money, and quite frankly I'm ashamed that someone as intelligent as you would suggest there is any similarity. you're using one of the most feeble arguments in the world. two wrongs do not make a right. "those darn scientists in private industry are into secrecy too. secrecy is a basic part of life on planet earth". perhaps so, but secrecy in GOVERNMENT is ANTITHETICAL to freedom, and there is a direct proportion of the INCREASE IN SECRECY to the INCREASE IN TYRANNY. sorry to RANT but your post makes my blood boil. feel free to have your deluded fantasies in private, but if you post, I'll rant. gosh, JimmyG, have you read about how area 51 was charged with a lawsuit for burning toxic wastes by the widow of a dead employee? would you like me to post it for you? do you hold this up as an example of government accountability? or is it in fact government that no longer serves the people? a government that in fact is in total contempt of its citizens? food for thought, eh? I suppose it would make anyone with a conscience tend to THINK-- presuming they really have one. its a rare quality in these times, don't you think, JimmyG? From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 10:00:02 +0800 To: Tim May Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801090042.QAA02172@netcom11.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain every respondent to my post has missed the key points. I will post soon the list an article demonstrating my anger at the betrayal of sound government by a sinister state that has hijacked it. >Scientists even in schools and foundations are often secretive, too. > >The notion that "science" is about blabbing one's latest discoveries or >theories is overly simplistic. Many scholars and scientists choose not to >publicize their work for years, or decades, or, even, never. if so, they are not SCIENTISTS. a key aspect of SCIENCE is publishing results. science cannot advance without it. name me one scientist who did not publish an important result, or is considered a good scientists for doing so! >Consider Andrew Wiles, Princeton math professor, and the prover of Fermat's >Last Theorem. He labored in secrecy for many years, only going public when >he felt his results were complete. (As it turned out, they were not, and he >needed another year or two to fill in some gaps.) but he PUBLISHED his results, he gave a LECTURE on his findings. I am not saying that secrecy and science are mutually exclusive in this way. secrecy is a useful tool, I am not in general against secrecy. but secrecy can be ABUSED, and our government is ABUSING it. have you been following that Clinton was just fined $286,00 for lying to a judge? what do you think it was about? the government LIED that health hearings were being attended only by federal employees, and were thus exempt from mandatory public hearings. a law requires that if private individuals attend, the hearing must be OPEN and not SECRET!! for good reason!! our government is hijacked through SECRECY. in fact the hearing could be public even with federal employees only, and the law should have gone further but only stopped where it did!! >Corporate scientists now outnumber academic or foundation scientists, and >they are quite understandably under various restrictions to keep results >secret, at least for a while. "at least for a while" is the key phrase. "forever" would be false. again, secrecy is a tool. >Science does not "only advance through the open literature." There are many >other checks and balances which accomplish the same effect. name one. I could give >dozens of examples of where the open literature either did not exist or was >not used...and science still advanced. but science eventually published the results. the lack of publishing held back science collectively. science had to rediscover something that had already been discovered. it is misleading to suggest that science "advanced" as you do here. those findings that are withheld from the scientific literature do not advance science as a collective human endeavor. how can you argue with something so obvious? all this is uninteresting to me-- I was making a moral point in an essay that is obviously unintelligable to most people here. its my big mistake in this world, to pretent that morality plays a role. as EH once said, normative philosophies are a waste of time. what room does the world have for someone who thinks only in terms of how things should be? things ARE, PERIOD. good lord, no wonder Ayn Rand is so uninfluential. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "William H. Geiger III" Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 08:01:56 +0800 To: Adam Back Subject: Re: time-stamp server uses (Re: Question on U.S. Postal Service and crypto) In-Reply-To: <199801081450.OAA00500@server.eternity.org> Message-ID: <199801082306.SAA10265@users.invweb.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In <199801081450.OAA00500@server.eternity.org>, on 01/08/98 at 02:50 PM, Adam Back said: >Robert Costner writes: >> [...] The timestamping is a action that "postmarks" the digitally >> signed message. Many attorneys feel this is a very good thing, >> though I have had a hard time justifying the need for this to some >> technically inclined people. >One use for time-stamping is to allow digital signatures to out-live the >validity period of a given public private key pair. If the time-stamped >signature shows that the document was signed during the life-time of the >signing key pair this provides additional assurance that the signature is >still valid despite the fact that the key is now marked as expired, or >was say later compromised and revoked. No it does not. The date that a Key becomes comprimised and the date that the owner of a Key knowns it is comprimised are two very different things and somthing that time-stamping can not solve. You also have at issue of what does one do with long term signatures if the undelying technology is broken. Say you sign a 30yr morgage electronically and 15yrs latter the algorithms that were used and now broken. Not to mention what does one do when the time-stamping key is comprimised. - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a-sha1 Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBNLVZgY9Co1n+aLhhAQF5HAQAvGRMd3YWhcQiZyaYrK7EJ46JC53E92h9 IR6QuO3rew6wdwUNavg6TPRgpF8L9kXAKaH35IFePBvfsSKzoCMxsSpdcoo4RuMx ZMqa81jWaJmKBNjAhyD1qSwsgiQnXaAEcAV7mIa3AboUm8bfA1JbfwiA/SE7i/g2 uF08Pnh90Yw= =KT64 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Robert Hettinga Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 07:09:37 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: HAYEKWEB: Hackney on Law & Econ History & Hayek Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain --- begin forwarded text Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 14:56:33 EST Reply-To: Hayek Related Research Sender: Hayek Related Research From: Gregransom Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Subject: HAYEKWEB: Hackney on Law & Econ History & Hayek To: HAYEK-L@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU >> Hayek on the Web << -- Law & Economics "Law and Neoclassical Economics: Science, Politics, and the Reconfiguration of American Tort Law Theory" by James R. Hackney, Jr. on the Web at: http://www.press.uillinois.edu/journals/lhrforums.html >From "Law and Neoclassical Economics: Science, Politics, and the Reconfiguration of American Tort Law Theory" by James R. Hackney, Jr.: " .. C. The Antistatist Imperative: F. A. Hayek and the Road to Law and Neoclassical Economics The technique of analysis coming out of early twentieth-century Vienna was not linked to any particular ideological position. In fact, Janik and Toulmin illustrate that the fundamental position could be characterized as "apolitical." However, F. A. Hayek independently provided a distinct ideological position shaped by the Viennese experience41 that had a profound impact on ideological debates in post-World War II America and, by extension, on economic analysis. Hayek's migration to England influenced the LSE debates that are crucial to understanding the strands of economic thought that framed Coase's work in particular, and law and neoclassical economics in general. In addition, Hayek directly shaped the law and neoclassical economics project at the University of Chicago.42 Hayek stated his ideological position in The Road to Serfdom.43 He asserted that Serfdom "is a political book" and that "all I shall have to say is derived from certain ultimate values."44 Written while Hayek held a professorship at the LSE, Serfdom was conceived as a direct response to a socialist ethos that permeated the European continent and endangered the liberal underpinnings of English politics. The goal of the book was to sound a "warning to the socialist intelligentsia of England"45 that their program would lead to the very totalitarianism so many had fought against. Despite its focus on the English intellectual scene, the book had an enormous impact in the United States.46 In fact, it produced a more extreme reaction, both positive and negative, in the United States than in England. No doubt part of the consternation on the American left was due to the boldness and scope of Serfdom.47 While the argument that "hot socialism" would poison a society might not have unsettled leftists, Hayek made similar claims regarding the welfare state.48 The problem articulated in Serfdom was that some of the core beliefs of hot socialism had become so embedded in the conceptual framework of intellectual thought that they threatened to undermine liberal society under the guise of the welfar state or egalitarian rhetoric. This would come, for example, in the form of knee-jerk calls for state/bureaucratic intervention in the economy when "judicious use of financial inducements might evoke spontaneous efforts."49 The polemical force of Serfdom stemmed from its evocation of the dangers of totalitarianism, particularly the Nazi Germany variety, manifest in social approaches to the ills that befall society. Hayek boldly and flatly asserted that "[i]t is necessary now to state the unpalatable truth that it is Germany whose fate we are in some danger of repeating."50 The core of the antistatist stance as articulated in Serfdom grew out of the belief in the uniqueness of individual activity and thought ("ethical individualism"). It was unacceptable, in fact impossible, for anyone other than the individual to make decisions for the individual without imposing an alien set of values. At that point, seemingly benign policy prescriptions dissolved into naked, unjustifiable coercion. Thus, "individuals should be allowed, within defined limits, to follow their own values and preferences rather than somebody else's."51 In the antigovernment sentiment and proincentive policies articulated in Serfdom, we see the ideological seeds that helped influence, but were not determinative of, the American law and neoclassical economics movement. The ways in which the antistatist ideal set forth in Serfdom would be reflected in social institutions are clear in Hayek's discussion of the legal system and are fundamental in linking his intellectual project to the law and neoclassical economics movement. Hayek's views on the legal system were shaped by his core belief that "competition" is the central means of "co-ordinating human effort" and the "conviction that, where effective competition can be created, it is a better way of guiding individual efforts than any other."52 Thus, in the effort to protect the individual, it is free market competition, not government intervention, that is presumed to be for the good. So, what of the law "[I]n order that competition should work beneficially, a carefully thought-out legal framework is required. ." In particular, some legal structure may be needed in order to accurately reflect the price of goods and services, which is the vital information for individuals.53 In sum, the law serves to facilitate competition, which is the system most conducive to individual freedom. It does so by setting the boundaries of competition. The law should "recognize the principle of private property and freedom of contract." In this regard, it acts as a neutral arbiter facilitating individual preferences and defining the "right to property as applied to different things." The rights associated with property, notwithstanding antistatist ideals, were not absolute, but contingent upon the particular situation. Efficiency was the criterion: the "systematic study of the forms of legal institutions which will make the competitive system work efficiently." Regarding legal rules specifically, Serfdom articulated a system in which "[t]he only question . . . is whether in the particular instance the advantages gained are greater than the social costs which they impose."54 Hayek's emphasis on legal rules, particularly as they affected social costs,55 is the link connecting him to the law and neoclassical economics movement. Hayek gave a detailed analysis of social costs and the limits of government intervention as a tool for minimizing such costs. However, to the extent that legal rules limiting property rights represent an activist role for government, Hayek stated that, though the scope of this permissible intervention on individual autonomy was not defined, "these tasks provide, indeed, a wide and unquestioned field for state activity."56 I argue below that the possibility of "state activity" within neoclassical economics provides the ground for progressive political appropriation of neoclassical economics. This discussion of postwar antistatism, as represented by Serfdom, and its logical progression to concrete neoclassical analyses of legal institutions, specifically property rights, begins to substantiate the first major claim of this essay: law and neoclassical economics is, at its core, about politics. It also shows how the conservative politics associated with neoclassical economics could be taken seriously if the dangers of progressivism articulated in Serfdom, including progressive ideals espoused by pragmatic instrumentalists, were heeded.57 Now we turn to the connections between neoclassical economics and the science of the analytic turn in order to begin establishing the other claim of this paper: law and neoclassical economics is, at its core, also about science. At the end, we find that there is a synthesis of the politics and science of law and neoclassical economics .. " >From "Law and Neoclassical Economics: Science, Politics, and the Reconfiguration of American Tort Law Theory" by James R. Hackney, Jr. Law and History Review. Vol. 15, No. 2, Fall 1997 >From "'Law and Neoclassical Economics': A Response to Commentaries 163-172" by James R. Hackney, Jr.: " .. I never identify Hayek as a "neoclassical economist" but I think it is (1) fair to say that Hayek, and Austrian economics generally, have had considerable influence on neoclassical theory;16 and, more importantly for my thesis, (2) Hayek has had a profound influence on the strand of law and neoclassical economics coming out of the University of Chicago.17 (footnote 17. Coase's recognition of his intellectual debt to F. A. Hayek and the institutional role Hayek played in establishing law and neoclassical economics studies at the University of Chicago is illustrative of this point. Hackney, "Law and Neoclassical Economics," 284, n. 42, 306, n. 141.) .. " >From "'Law and Neoclassical Economics': A Response to Commentaries 163-172" by James R. Hackney, Jr. _Law and History Review_ Vol. 16, No. 1, Spring 1998. Hayek on the Web is a regular feature of the Hayek-L list. --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/ Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Declan McCullagh Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 08:28:42 +0800 To: Tim May Subject: Re: Remailers & N.E.T. In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980108004628.03b6bbe8@mail.atl.bellsouth.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I would be very afraid of relying on the CDA's immunizing provisions as my sole defense against prosecution, conviction, and jail time, were I a remailer operator. -Declan At 12:47 -0800 1/8/98, Tim May wrote: >(Though the SPA and others may then go after the remailers. Ironically, the >CDA exempted remailers--though not by name--from liability for messages.) From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: jalonz@openworld.com Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 09:05:24 +0800 To: Tim May MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >>Notice the words "criminal investigations"? God forbid talent could >>actually be used for a good cause. The incidents in question were actually >>quite serious (Chinese mafia money laundering via phony real estate deals) >>and not at all like the porno bbs confiscation crap you'd be thinking of. >And what is morally wrong with "money laundering"? Seems to me a person's >money is his to do with it as he pleases...it's only governments that call >some actions "money laundering." Just as they call some speech "information >laundering." I personally dont see money laundering as a "bad" thing, but fraud definitely is. What you do with your money is your business as long as you dont hurt someone else. This was not the case. (IMHO) >And do you think your "Digital Society" notion (which we've seen many times >before, usually involving floating, offshore entities) will somehow not >attract or involve "Chinese mafia money launderers"? I'm sure it will. >Do you plan to implement key escrow so you can monitor what your residents >are doing with each other? Do you plan to become a floating police state so >as to stop this evil "money laundering"? Hell no, I personally do not think it would not be practical, moral or cost-effective to use key-escrow methods. Key escrow empowers governments, not individuals - at the cost of the individuals right to privacy. >I don't think you've quite grasped the significance of strong crypto and >cyberspace. has anyone? >(For starters, an intentional community in cyberspace, situated in no >particular country, and backed by strong crypto, digital escrow systems >(real escrow, of course), reputation systems, etc. is a far better place to >do business of certain sorts than is "Jalon'sWorld.") Then why doesn't someone do it? Like I said we have to start somewhere. >I suspect that Guy is right, that your "Digital Society" shtick is just the >latest in your long series of "new businesses" started in many places in >the country. Well it definitely is the latest and it definitely is one of many, so your suspicions are correct. BTW, The Digital Society Group has been selected to deploy the entire Digital Society Package within the new Agulhas Bay Free Zone in the People's Democratic Republic of Sao Tome and Principe. I'd advise a look at the new content on the Digital Society website. :) Jalon --------------------------------------------------------------- Jalon Q. Zimmerman, Director The Digital Society Group A division of Openworld, Inc. http://www.openworld.com/ jalonz@openworld.com --------------------------------------------------------------- The government is not your mommy. --------------------------------------------------------------- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: David Honig Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 12:18:51 +0800 To: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980108190521.007b87d0@otc.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 04:42 PM 1/8/98 -0800, Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote: >good lord, no wonder >Ayn Rand is so uninfluential. > Methinks you are either tweaking us or are ourselves some 20 years ago.. Assuming the latter. Howdy. Calm down. Everyone eventually considers the Faustian bargains one finds in one's environment, and realizes the bargains that others have made. And one chooses. The universe owes you nothing. Your goals and alliances are yours to choose. Everyone picks what they are comfortable with, and it ain't your business what they decide. No one is obligated to agree with you. And everyone is obligated to let you alone, unless you violate their right to be left alone. But you know this. If there are people w/ evil (and there are), well, stop tirading and deal with it. Route around the damage. You're not going to convince them, face it. Don't fill yourself with hate; mobilize. Run for congress; send spoofmail from the pres; write cryptocode; turn your grandma on to PGP; volunteer to lecture to impressionable youngsters. Once you get over the shock of realizing how much things are not what they are supposed to be, you'll be able to calm down, and think. I'm not an optimist but we have physics and mathematics and economics in our favor, to paraphrase. There *is* a reason to flame but flaming to the choir (or to the unbelievers, for that matter) isn't the solution. On secrecy, Saint Chas. Darwin sat on evolution forever, until he reviewed a paper that was going to scoop him, you know. later, David Honig honig@alum.mit.edu --------------------------------------------------- If we can prevent the government from wasting the labours of the people under the pretense of caring for them, they will be happy. -TJ From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 11:45:45 +0800 To: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 4:42 PM -0800 1/8/98, Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote: >every respondent to my post has missed the key points. >I will post soon the list an article demonstrating my >anger at the betrayal of sound government by a sinister state >that has hijacked it. Have they begun torturing you with the snakes of Medusa yet? ... >if so, they are not SCIENTISTS. a key aspect of SCIENCE is publishing >results. science cannot advance without it. name me one scientist >who did not publish an important result, or is considered a good >scientists for doing so! "Name me one..."? How about Gauss, who didn't publish many of his results. Or, of course, Fermat, ironically linked to Wiles. Not to mention Darwin, who sat on his results for almost 20 years, and only issued a paper and his famed book because he learned another naturalist was about to announce similar conclusions. Publication and, more importantly, discussion and challenge, is often very important to the advancement of science. But is some cast in stone requirement? Of course not. >>Science does not "only advance through the open literature." There are many >>other checks and balances which accomplish the same effect. > >name one. Building an artifact which embodies the science, for example. Exploding an atom bomb was pretty clearly a demonstration that the science done was correct, regardless of whether there was "open literature" or not. This is just too easy, refuting Detweiler's points. So I'll stop here. >all this is uninteresting to me-- I was making a moral point in an >essay that is obviously unintelligable to most people here. its my >big mistake in this world, to pretent that morality plays a role. >as EH once said, normative philosophies are a waste of time. what >room does the world have for someone who thinks only in terms >of how things should be? things ARE, PERIOD. good lord, no wonder >Ayn Rand is so uninfluential. I suggest he get his lithium prescription refilled. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: John Young Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 09:54:25 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Fast Elliptic Curve Math Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980109005031.010beb24@pop.pipeline.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain 7 January 1998, Nikkei Industrial Daily Toshiba Unveils Fast Formula For Elliptic-Curve Cryptography Tokyo -- Toshiba Corp. has developed an arithmetic formula which it claims offers the world's fastest processes of elliptic-curve cryptography. The formula cuts processing time by almost half from current methods used in elliptic-curve systems. Toshiba's formula is based on the Montgomery arithmetic system, a special method of calculation which requires no division. Elliptic-curve cryptography is considerably faster than the Rivest Shamir Adleman (RSA) system currently in common use. Toshiba hopes to apply the system in a wide range of fields, including corporate information systems and electronic commerce. ----- Is there other information on this? From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Anonymous Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 04:05:24 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: cypherpunks and guns Message-ID: <199801081855.TAA05464@basement.replay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > > Final comment: If I find the motivation, I may finish an essay I've been > > working on about how we, the Cypherpunks and the World, are *retrogressing* > > in crypto areas. Most of the exotic applications are no longer being > > discussed, and various mundane commercial products are the main focus. Yawn. > > You mean things like Onion Routers, Crowds & the like? Tim May doesn't know anything about Onion Routers, Crowds, or any of the other new privacy technologies like Adam Back's prototype Eternity service. In truth, he has lost all interest in cryptography and now spends his time talking about guns and making racist comments. He wonders why the cypherpunks list no longer attracts quality cryptographic ideas. He need look no farther than the nearest mirror. His violent rants and his off-topic, offensive posts have done more than anything to drive good people off the list. The single best thing that could happen to the cypherpunks list (and the cypherpunks movement, for that matter) would be for Tim May to leave the list and disassociate himself from the cypherpunks. He would be much more comfortable joining the KKK and the local militia. After him, Paul Bradley, William Geiger and Dimitri Vulis can follow. This will leave fine thinkers with good hearts like Adam Back, Bill Stewart, Wei Dai and others, people who still believe that cryptography can make a strong contribution to our freedom. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 10:38:04 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd) Message-ID: <199801090201.UAA06101@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality > Date: Thu, 08 Jan 98 16:42:43 -0800 > From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" > every respondent to my post has missed the key points. Not quite. Of course I don't agree with all of them either. There are two rules you should consider: - It's ok to have an open mind, just don't let it slosh out on the ground. - Understanding a view is not equivalent to supporting a view. You might also want to consider that two opposing views might very well *both* be right...it depends on where you sit on the fence as to what the tree looks like. > >Scientists even in schools and foundations are often secretive, too. > > > >The notion that "science" is about blabbing one's latest discoveries or > >theories is overly simplistic. Many scholars and scientists choose not to > >publicize their work for years, or decades, or, even, never. > > if so, they are not SCIENTISTS. a key aspect of SCIENCE is publishing > results. science cannot advance without it. name me one scientist > who did not publish an important result, or is considered a good > scientists for doing so! I must agree here. If a technologist (ie one who studies science for profit, hence creating a technology) chooses not to publish their results that is fine. However, a scientist is one who studies nature and its interactions, profit is not and should not be a motive. Simplistic or not; in fact some things are better understood when simplified (ala the scientific principle). A scientist has an obligation to discuss and publish their results for other scientists (and even technologist) when they are reasonably sure their results will stand up to indipendant verification (a critical issue in science, not in technology however). Don't be confused by Timy's claim to be a scientist, he is a technologist at heart. Many of his views and beliefs are motivated by issues of control *not* curiosity. > >Consider Andrew Wiles, Princeton math professor, and the prover of Fermat's > >Last Theorem. He labored in secrecy for many years, only going public when > >he felt his results were complete. (As it turned out, they were not, and he > >needed another year or two to fill in some gaps.) > > but he PUBLISHED his results, he gave a LECTURE on his findings. I am > not saying that secrecy and science are mutually exclusive in this way. > secrecy is a useful tool, I am not in general against secrecy. but > secrecy can be ABUSED, and our government is ABUSING it. Further, the *reason* he was so secretive was because of the history of failed attempts and early 'proofs' that later failed. He was motivated by getting it right and ruining his reputation; not because he thought proving Fermat's Last Theorem would provide him riches and laurels for the remainder of his mortal coil. > have you > been following that Clinton was just fined $286,00 for lying to > a judge? Which means, per the Constitution, that he should be removed from office. He broke a public trust and that means he looses any public station he currently has and is barred from future office. > I could give > >dozens of examples of where the open literature either did not exist or was > >not used...and science still advanced. Of course, this is a specious argument. If it was already in the literature it wouldn't be science advancing (learning something that wasn't known before). The whole point to science is to understand and explain what we see and don't see that creates the cosmos we inhabit. Now if your point is that Intel taking some trade secret only they are aware of and using this to make quicker chips is science then you don't know a damn thing about science. > but science eventually published the results. It is *required* for doing 'science', it isn't for doing 'technology'. As a matter of fact a little perusal of history demonstrates that science requires open and unhindered dialog while technology requires closed channels of communcication and mechanisms of control. A perfect current example is the move to cloan humans. The guy, Creed?, is right "you can't stop science"; you can however stop technology and businesses do every day. Until that oocyte goes viable it's science, from that point on it's technology. > human endeavor. how can you argue with something so obvious? You don't know Timmy very well do you... > all this is uninteresting to me-- I was making a moral point in an > essay that is obviously unintelligable to most people here. its my > big mistake in this world, to pretent that morality plays a role. Actualy your mistake is assuming that there is *one* morality. Don't fret though. Just about everyone wants to jam everyone else into their nice little easily understood molds. It makes it much easier to justify their actions to themselves and potentialy to others if they get them to swallow even once. > of how things should be? things ARE, PERIOD. good lord, no wonder > Ayn Rand is so uninfluential. Reasonable men don't change the world. If we aren't motivated by our ethics and belief that our actions can change the world into the way it 'should be' then what is the motive? Money? Even that is a veiled mechanism to make the world the way we think it should be (ie we have more money or social station than currently endowed with). Changing the world is what *makes* life worth living. The question *is* why do you want to change the world and *who* gets to profit by it? ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Michael Stutz Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 10:16:11 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Syn-l: Re: White House Or Red Roof Inn? (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain [This message originally appeared on the synergetics-l at , a list for the discussion of R. Buckminster Fuller's magnum opus.] ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 00:38:22 GMT From: Kirby Urner Reply-To: synergetics-l@teleport.com To: synergetics-l@teleport.com Subject: Syn-l: Re: White House Or Red Roof Inn? Newsgroups: alt.politics.org.fbi,alt.politics.org.cia softwar@us.net (softwar@us.net) wrote: >friends inside the White House. Barth claimed the British were >already selling encrypted radios to China and his new boss, >Motorola, deserved a "level playing field". In fact, according >to Barth, the National Security Agency (NSA) agreed with >Motorola's request for export. > I want to be clear on your position: you are apparently against administration efforts to frustrate domestic access to strong encryption. This makes sense, since that would just put the domestic population behind the rest of the world, which has access to same through other channels. But are you saying companies like Motorola should not sell encrypted radio or television to clients not classified as "domestic"? Or is it just some clients (e.g. the Chinese) but not others that you're saying Motorola should turn away. Sounds to me like you're picking on the Chinese because they're an easy target, after all the brouhaha about where the DNC has been getting its money (are you so sure the British have never helped put their preferred candidate in power through banking channels? Is this really a new game? I think not -- USAers just aren't used to having the Asians playing it, but in retrospect you have to wonder what took them so long). My view is that we're fast coming to (already well passed?) the point where we're going to have to regard lethal-against -humans applications of high technology as uniformly negative wherever they occur -- exceptions will be few and far between. Big money is seeing a secure path into the future, but not if high explosives are factored in as wild cards -- like you're trying to plan the motherboard of a computer and some politician comes in and says "by the way, every now and then we plan to blow a whole section of circuitry sky high, maybe explode a chip or two -- think you can handle that?" The Intel engineers I know would all shake their heads and think this guy must be missing more than a few screws. Computers need it cold. The temperature needs to keep dropping, down, down, down -- to way below what jingoists and knee-jerk patriots of all stripes and coloration find comfortable, but which delicate high technology absolutely must have to operate with any integrity. Motherboard Earth is not some Hollywood movie set, where misguided Rambos can run amuk at will. Save that stuff for the video parlor or the schoolyard, where it's safe to indulge in less than grown-up behavior. If the Qualcomm kid was even inadvertently feeding data to GIS systems bound for the "brains" of Tomahawk cruise missles aimed at "external" (non-domestic) targets in another hemisphere, then Qualcomm is liable to go down in history as a felonious player, a villain. One just can't afford to misrepresent one's true intentions so blatantly and expect to survive as trusted player. Using GIS and GPS to make flying safer is a positive civilian use of the technology, but if those planes are carrying weapons of mass destruction (armed and dangerous), then we're certainly going to follow the chain of command right to the top and find out exactly what logic is driving this design decision -- like why are you wearing a gun coming into a crowded civilian restaurant Mr. CEO President? People who want to flaunt terrifying weaponry had better come clean under interrogation, or own up to a "terrorist" charge -- applied without regard for skin color, creed, or place of origin. The econosphere has become very sophisticated and techno- logical, all the more delicate and sensitive as a result of the human presence. We could have a pretty good world here in fact, if we're willing to treat it with the respect owing any high precision instrument. People who plan to simply barrel ahead with lethal weapons planning, come what may, need to provide some iron clad logic for this course or their trackers and backers simply will kiss them good buy (and good riddance) for failing to offer any credible scenarios worth funding. Big ticket weaponry just doesn't have that same sex appeal anymore, has "boondoggle" written on it even before they get off the drawing board. Like "who's gonna pay for this shit?" is the first question smart money asks. Best to not hide behind "national security" shields as in the past at this point, is what I advise the corporate R&D divisioins -- because now you know that security chiefs don't necessarily buy the company hype anymore. You better have it in writing where you got your orders, if you want to plead "not guilty" and pass the buck on up the line. So if you want to play profitable commerical games in the civilian sector, don't be so sure your weaponry subsidiaries will escape scrutiny, and don't count on preferential enforcement of statutes to protect your namebrand from being utterly trashed if you turn out to be defrauding the very people you make such a noise about wanting to protect. The people are waking up, some of them, and are finding out they don't like what's been taking place in their name. Kirby --------------------------------------------------------- Kirby T. Urner http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/kirby.html 4D Solutions http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ [PGP OK] --------------------------------------------------------- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 12:46:44 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801090201.UAA06101@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 6:01 PM -0800 1/8/98, Jim Choate wrote: >Don't be confused by Timy's claim to be a scientist, he is a technologist at >heart. Many of his views and beliefs are motivated by issues of control *not* >curiosity. .... >You don't know Timmy very well do you... Add Choate to the list of dimbulbs who think calling me "Timmy" (or Timy) is some kind of witty insult. On this list, Detweiler and Vulis seem to favor this usage. Next he'll be putting out ASCII art Jeez, and I don't even recall insulting Choate. Perhaps he got his nose out of joint when I challenged his "all snipers use .223" piece of misinformation. Back in my killfile he goes. Incredible that he is even connected with one of the Cypherpunks distribution points. BTW, nowhere in my piece did I refer to myself as a "scientist." I spoke of Wiles, and then of Gauss, Fermat, and Darwin. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Blanc Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 14:10:27 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980108220504.00707df8@cnw.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain NuriLogical is anguished that some people are immoral: >all this is uninteresting to me-- I was making a moral point in an >essay that is obviously unintelligable to most people here. its my >big mistake in this world, to pretent that morality plays a role. >as EH once said, normative philosophies are a waste of time. what >room does the world have for someone who thinks only in terms >of how things should be? things ARE, PERIOD. good lord, no wonder >Ayn Rand is so uninfluential. ................................................................. As your hero and biggest fan, EH, said: cypherpunks do not wait for other people to become moral; cypherpunks create their own reality. (or something to that effect) How can we know which flaw (for there are many possible) causes a person - scientific or otherwise - to behave like a coward and give up their integrity for the sake of safety or money or an undeserved reputation? How can we know how someone could keep a contradiction in their head, maintaining a position of virtue in the commuity while yet depending on the slavery of those whose benefit they purport to be working for? I guess you will tell us this in your forthcoming article. (Perry, where are you when we need you? :>) just kidding!!) BTW, you should consider that when Einstein proposed the creation of a bomb, it was within the context of a war being advanced globally by an evil madman who was gathering every resource to subdue and decimate everything in his way, and that the rest of the world was desperate for a solution. Also you should remember that some brilliant people, like Newton, who was a shy man and didn't necessarily see himself as others did/do, did not care if anyone else saw the results of his work. Once he had solved the problems in his own mind, he was not exceptionally concerned that others were also struggling with the same, nor whether "the community" needed the answer. He was pursuing knowledge for reasons of his own. .. Blanc From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 12:11:54 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: Jalon'sWorld and Evil Money Laundering In-Reply-To: <85256586.0081E136.00@openworld.com> Message-ID: <30s1ie11w165w@bwalk.dm.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain jalonz@openworld.com writes: > BTW, The Digital Society Group has been selected to deploy the entire > Digital Society Package within the new Agulhas Bay Free Zone in the > People's Democratic Republic of Sao Tome and Principe. Cool. Do you possibly happen to know a source for historical time series: Sa~o Tome Dorba exchange rates to USD and also interest rates at different tenors? --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 12:20:30 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd) Message-ID: <199801090442.WAA06633@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 19:26:11 -0800 > From: Tim May > Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality > "Name me one..."? How about Gauss, who didn't publish many of his results. > Or, of course, Fermat, ironically linked to Wiles. True, Gauss didn't publish many of his results and he wasn't famed for that either. He *was* famed because he *did* publish some of his works. In fact, if you study Gauss you find a insecure introvert who in general hated his competition. He lied in his correspondance about work he supposedly did (see his relations with Bolyai who was a friend of his from school - "Non-euclidean Geometry" by Roberto Bonola; Dover ISBN 0-486-60027-0 $5.50). Yes, Gauss was respected for his math, he was hated for his humanity, or lack thereof. If anything Gauss' bahaviour held back science because of his self-interest. Fermat in general published most of his work, however, much of it was lost including his proof. His statement was that it was too long to be written in the margin of the book, not that he didn't write it down. The implication being that he *had* written it down and it got misplaced or lost it. Both of these folks are *very* poor examples of your point. > Not to mention Darwin, who sat on his results for almost 20 years, and only > issued a paper and his famed book because he learned another naturalist was > about to announce similar conclusions. Darwin set on his results because he was aware of the results of his work and the consequence to his career. He felt he needed more stature and as a consequence more security before publishing. He also understood he was right and that the first to publish would go down in history and the second would be an also ran. If you study the others alive at the time there were many people who had suggested similar theories. His own uncle had written similar material several decades before Darwin ever set foot on the Beagle. Darwin didn't invent evolution, he did refine it. Further, Darwin *isn't* know in the scientific community for his two books intended for lay readers. He *is* known for his seminal study of finches and mollusks, both quite clearly demonstrate his beliefs and theories and both had a much bigger impact on the scientific acceptance of evolution than 'Species' ever hoped to have. You are confusing the acceptance by the lay public as equivalent to scientific acceptance. You really should read Mayr. Again, a bad example. > Publication and, more importantly, discussion and challenge, is often very > important to the advancement of science. But is some cast in stone > requirement? Of course not. Actualy the open discussion of hypothesis and the testing thereof in open and unbiased comparison by indipendant researchers *is* most certainly a requirement in science - your protest not withstanding. > Building an artifact which embodies the science, for example. Exploding an > atom bomb was pretty clearly a demonstration that the science done was > correct, regardless of whether there was "open literature" or not. Don't confuse the science of atomic physics with the engineering of building a bomb. They are not the same thing. The majority of the work done to succesfuly understand an atomic bomb was known world wide in the 1920's and early '30's. The engineering to do it along with the money and project management skills motivated by the political where with all to actualy do it didn't. You are confusing affect and effect. > This is just too easy, refuting Detweiler's points. So I'll stop here. Thanks. My smashed finger is starting to hurt and your points are pretty easy to refute as well. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 12:15:09 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Schneier's metrocard cracked Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I heard on the radio that the security scheme used in New York City metrocards (designed with much input frm Bruce Schneier) has been cracked and that the "hackers" can now add fare to the cards. Does anyone know any details? What encryption did Schneier use? --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 12:28:38 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd) Message-ID: <199801090451.WAA06712@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 19:05:21 -0800 > From: David Honig > Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality > chooses. The universe owes you nothing. That depends on your personal philosophy, or are you claiming to have found "The Way"? (that's rhetorical, please don't respond since the consequencial discussion leads nowhere that we aren't already) > Your goals and alliances are yours to choose. You got to choose your family and what country you were born in and how much money you have? Cool, you should consider yourself truly blessed, in the several 10's of thousands of years of humanity you are the first so gifted. > Everyone picks what they are comfortable with, and it ain't your business > what they decide. No one is > obligated to agree with you. And everyone is > obligated to let you alone, unless you violate their > right to be left alone. But you know this. No, everyone doesn't pick what they are comfortable with. Only somebody that takes their station in life with its consimmitent spoils as a given would say something this idiotic. Nobody is obliged to let you alone unless they decide to of their own volition. It only takes one to make war (the old saying is wrong) it takes two to make peace. And man being what he is wants his own way even at the expense of somebody elses way. Such is the trials and tribulations of social animals. > On secrecy, Saint Chas. Darwin sat on evolution forever, until he reviewed > a paper that was going to scoop him, you know. Oh god, somebody else who hasn't studied Darwin or Meyr.... I covered the rebuttal to this commen folk tale in a reply to Timmy. Look for it... ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 13:09:17 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801090201.UAA06101@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Jim Choate writes: The Nuriweiller wrote: > > if so, they are not SCIENTISTS. a key aspect of SCIENCE is publishing > > results. science cannot advance without it. name me one scientist > > who did not publish an important result, or is considered a good > > scientists for doing so! > > I must agree here. If a technologist (ie one who studies science for > profit, hence creating a technology) chooses not to publish their results > that is fine. However, a scientist is one who studies nature and its > interactions, profit is not and should not be a motive. Simplistic or not; > in fact some things are better understood when simplified (ala the > scientific principle). A scientist has an obligation to discuss and publish > their results for other scientists (and even technologist) when they are > reasonably sure their results will stand up to indipendant verification (a > critical issue in science, not in technology however). > > Don't be confused by Timy's claim to be a scientist, he is a technologist at > heart. Many of his views and beliefs are motivated by issues of control *not* > curiosity. That's a very interesting idea. Consider Fischer Black, who passed away a couple of years ago. His most important contribution to science was the basic Black-Sholes equation. What were his direct economic rewards for having come up with it? Not much, really. He was already a tenured full professor at MIT. However as the result of his discovery he got hired away by Goldman Sachs as a VP, and later became a full partner. He did quite a bit of work at GS; none of it as spectacular as the Black-Scholes equation; almost none of it published in the open literature. Can we say that the bulk of his $50 million was for the research he did while at MIT and not at Goldman (and which benefited everyone in the industry, not just Goldman)? Did Goldman bet that Black would deliver results comparable in importance to the B-S equation, which Goldman would keep proprietary? Did Goldman win this bet (meaning, we wouldn't really know if they did)? I know another guy whom I won't name because he's still alive. He too is a tenured professor and has published numerous papers in refereed journals. His results are used by many people in the financial industry to make money. A few years ago he made an interesting discovery in statistics. Instead of publishing it, he and his coauthor took it to some investors and showed them how to make lots of money trading on these results. The investors then said, basically: yes we signed a nondisclosure agreement, but now that we know what this is about, we're going to use it and we won't pay you a penny and you don't have the money to sue us. Which is precisely what happened; the result is still not published, but is slowly circulating through the quant investing community. The same guy informed me later that he discovered a closed-form solution to some very interesting problems 9related to Black-Scholes) which according to the open literature either can't be done accurately at all, or require incredible amounts of cpu time for monte carlo simulations. he doesn't wish tio publish it (although it would make him quite a celebrity) and now he's going crazy trying to figure out a way to sell it in such a way that he can't get screwed again. How would crypto help if at all? Oh and by the way I suspect that a few minor crypto ideas in my PhD thesis were known to certain British cryptographers in the 30s but never published in the open literature. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Blanc Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 15:07:38 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd) Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980108230250.00698184@cnw.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote: >The same guy informed me later that he discovered a closed-form solution to >some very interesting problems 9related to Black-Scholes) which according to >the open literature either can't be done accurately at all, or require >incredible amounts of cpu time for monte carlo simulations. he doesn't >wish tio publish it (although it would make him quite a celebrity) and >now he's going crazy trying to figure out a way to sell it in such a way >that he can't get screwed again. How would crypto help if at all? ........................................................... I don't know about crypto, but I just attended a very informative financial forum on protecting intellectual property, presented by two representatives from Arthur Andersen and Preston Gates & Ellis, LLP. I picked up a little brochure which the attorney firm had available for attendees: We counsel and represent inventors, authors, publishers, visual artists, and musicians as they face a host of new and important issues. Preston Gates attorneys negotiate the use of creative expression in the full range of media, from CD-Roms and on-line services to interactive television and video games. We monitor and advise clients on developments in consumer protection, defamation, infringement, and other legal areas that affect their ability to develop and market creative properties. {etc} web site: www.prestongates.com, email: infotech@prestongates.com .. Blanc From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Mark Rogaski Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 12:21:47 +0800 To: bill.stewart@pobox.com Subject: Re: [Humor] Kennedy's New Legislation In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980108000200.0084fab0@popd.ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: <199801090404.XAA18655@deathstar.jabberwock.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- An entity claiming to be Bill Stewart wrote: : : At 07:19 PM 1/5/98 EST, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote: : >"Evolution in action." : >Thank you, Michael Kennedy, for improving humanity's gene pool. : : It's only evolution in action if it gets them before they've reproduced... : Actually, natural selection in action ... - -- [] Mark Rogaski "That which does not kill me [] wendigo@pobox.com only makes me stranger." [] [] finger wendigo@deathstar.jabberwock.org for PGP key [] anti spambot: postmaster@localhost abuse@localhost uce@ftc.gov -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBNLWhyXzbrFts6CmBAQH8LQf8D09nOXOktV6P0uCEPKmRc8zc4ho2aXHF t/WhFtgVWIdKNtBqwEYjIy+nS+4Q5Pfj0ZqI2Lj6JVJOpX8B5AqbhiTna7etws4y RhfNMWN1jfA1JHs5BdEnOI5YrkR6HFD9NwtgGIt5sirinuH9kQ5YucxeydOdBw8w mbN1U614rhAaehnVXSQ9v68eTuTWvdeJ+nuLRYblr5JNGsyPvlj3Fb8fQ+9kSod8 o2NCVCkOi3IQzAQWWbyBDS8RWsq77ZR15MRZAN/U5gn5s0Fz8R5Ym3wayEV6CYLv nZ7rtoEEXyM6yjubvVZJB6jYtsE5TJVegO+k0vlocV6jKYsLFxsFtg== =2T8G -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Brian B. Riley" Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 12:36:18 +0800 To: "Robert A. Costner" Subject: Re: Question on U.S. Postal Service and crypto Message-ID: <199801090428.XAA02677@mx02.together.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On 1/8/98 3:26 PM, Robert A. Costner (pooh@efga.org) passed this wisdom: >At 10:45 AM 1/8/98 -0800, David Miller wrote: >>> An interesting feature of the digital postmark is that the USPS was making >>> the claim that if you receive an email that the USPS send to you that was >>> not meant for you, then you have committed a federal crime when you read >it. >> >>I'm not so sure about this, Robert. I've heard the rumor that it is a crime, >>but I have also heard that if something is delivered to your box, it is yours >>and you are not required to send it back unopened if it is not addressed to >>you. I tend to believe the latter, as it is the side of the story shared by >>USPS employees. > >I wasn't commenting on the legality, but on the fact that the USPS web page >was making the claim that it was a crime. Apparently whoever wrote the >legal disclaimer felt that email could be misdelivered in the same fashion >in which postal mail could be misdelivered and was making this claim. I >found the claim to be nutty and made me think they didn't know what they >were doing. Maybe they are confusing an electronic mailbox with a snailmail box ... the USPS has always contended that they (the USPS) "own" your mailbox and use that criterion to prosecute people who drive around putting things like circulars etc in mailboxes. Maybe they we on a role thinking that if they got into the e-mail business they would 'own' that piece of your hard drive so to speak. Brian B. Riley --> http://members.macconnect.com/~brianbr For PGP Keys The Windows PC Versus Macintosh Buying Decision: "If you want to encourage your kids to color outside the lines, think creatively and zig when the other kids zag, get the Mac. On the other hand, if you want to teach your kid that life if full of frustration and that anything worth getting takes plenty of patience and hard work, a Windows machine should do quite nicely." - David Plotnikoff in the San Jose Mercury News From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Information Security Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 13:02:03 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: Schneier's metrocard cracked Message-ID: <199801090440.XAA09818@panix2.panix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Dr. Dim wrote: > > I heard on the radio that the security scheme used in New York City metrocards > (designed with much input frm Bruce Schneier) has been cracked and that the > "hackers" can now add fare to the cards. > > Does anyone know any details? What encryption did Schneier use? It sounds like a procedural thing. Something like there was a way to swipe cards and have the system wrongly think it updated the card. The city announced that every cardreader in the system is going to be recalibrated, and this will cause problems for "a few" existing cardholders. ---guy From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Declan McCullagh Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 12:55:20 +0800 To: nobody@replay.com (Anonymous) Subject: Re: Remailers & N.E.T. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sure. That provision of the CDA was not meant to apply to remailer operators but online services, which cut a deal on that bill. Prosecutors would point, I suspect, to legislative intent and say remailer operators aren't covered; they'd say the text of the law is not unambiguous. It is not an impenetrable shield against time in Club Fed. -Declan At 03:51 +0100 1/9/98, Anonymous wrote: >On Thu, 8 Jan 1998, Declan McCullagh wrote: > >> I would be very afraid of relying on the CDA's immunizing provisions as my >> sole defense against prosecution, conviction, and jail time, were I a >> remailer operator. >Could you clarify what you mean by that? From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 13:28:20 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: [Humor] Kennedy's New Legislation In-Reply-To: <199801090404.XAA18655@deathstar.jabberwock.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Mark Rogaski writes: > An entity claiming to be Bill Stewart wrote: > : > : At 07:19 PM 1/5/98 EST, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote: > : >"Evolution in action." > : >Thank you, Michael Kennedy, for improving humanity's gene pool. > : > : It's only evolution in action if it gets them before they've reproduced... > : > > Actually, natural selection in action ... Same thing... --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 14:20:09 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801090442.WAA06633@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Jim Choate writes: > > From: Tim May > > > "Name me one..."? How about Gauss, who didn't publish many of his results. > > Or, of course, Fermat, ironically linked to Wiles. > > True, Gauss didn't publish many of his results and he wasn't famed for that > either. He *was* famed because he *did* publish some of his works. In fact, > if you study Gauss you find a insecure introvert who in general hated his > competition. He lied in his correspondance about work he supposedly did (see > his relations with Bolyai who was a friend of his from school - > "Non-euclidean Geometry" by Roberto Bonola; Dover ISBN 0-486-60027-0 $5.50). > Yes, Gauss was respected for his math, he was hated for his humanity, or > lack thereof. If anything Gauss' bahaviour held back science because of his > self-interest. Janos Bolyai was the son of the math professor Farkas B. in Buda(best). While an undergraduate, he was working with a fellow named Szasz on non-euclidean geometry. In 1832 he published his findings as an appendix to his father's textbook. he did show that Euclid's axiom about parallel lines is independent of the others and did explore the geometry that arises if you omit this axiom. According to my sources, the appendix is "Wronski-like" to the point of unreadability. Apparently no one actually read it until B. started arguing about who did what first. The Russian mathematician Lobachavsky, in Kazan, came up with very similar results at the same time. He announced them at a talk in 1826 and published them in 1829. he was clearly first. There's no evidence that B. knew of L.'s results; these ideas were coming naturally from the work of the other mathematicians at this time. In 1837 B. submitted a paper on quaternions to some sort of competition; it received a very nagative review, which caused him to go crazy. He started working on logical foundations of geometry in weird ways, setting himself goals that he couldn't achieve. Then in 1940 he came across a German translation of Lobachevsky's paper on non-eucldiean geometry. he went totally bonkers, claiming that a) Lobachevsky is not a real person, but a "tentacle" of Gauss; b) that gauss is out to nail him, b) that their result is wrong anyway (although he never explained how). He died relatively young and totally insane. As someone pointed out, much of gauss's writings were not published until after his death. The folsk researching his notes were shocked to discover that Gauss did actually come up with very similar non-euclidean geometry ideas as early as 1818 (not surprisingly - these ideas were literally floating in the air). However he chose not to publish them, not realizing how important they would be, and also fearing that they woudn't be well accepted by his peers. Neither Bolyai nor Lobachevsky knew about Gauss's work. I have no idea what Bonola wrote, but if he's just repeating the allegations Bolyai made about Gauss while suffering from depression and paranoia, they have no more truth in them than the Timmy May rants on this mailing list. By the way, the same gossip prompted the Tom Lehrer song about Lobachevsky. I also don't see how Bolyai could have been gauss's chool friend, being 25 years younger than K.F. And it's not a dichotomy; it's a trichotomy: one can * do research and publish the results in a refereed journal. This is of use only for tenue-track faculty who need to publish to get tenured. Many refereed journals are extrmely political, with "friends" being published ahead of the queue, and "strangers" kept waiting for a couple of years while the "friends" can be advised of the manuscripts and publish their own version of the results. * do research on some practical problems whose solution interests some wealthy folks. Most tenured faculty dream of doing that; many actually do. * do research for fun/as a hobby; some wealthy folks do that, or pay others to do that. > Fermat in general published most of his work, however, much of it was lost > including his proof. His statement was that it was too long to be written in > the margin of the book, not that he didn't write it down. The implication > being that he *had* written it down and it got misplaced or lost it. Fermat was a judge. He did math for fun. (Strictly speaking, he did a lot his mathematical research to facilitate his gambling hobby - at the time when securities investment was viewed as a form of gambling no different from cards, dice, horse races, dog fights/races, cock fights, etc. How is Timmy's bet that INTC will fall (and shorting it, if he's got any brains) different from some Jose's bet that the rooster named Pedro will rip out the guts of the rooster named Jorge? I've known sports gamblers who would bet tens of thusands of dollars on a single game, and they also invested in securities; and the research they did before betting $40K on a basketball game was comparable to the research before taking a similar risk on stocks or bonds. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Blanc Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 17:56:18 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd) Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980109000033.0070a820@cnw.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Jim Choate wrote, regarding Newton: >He certainly went to great pains to publish it, even anonymously in some >cases and out of his own pocket. ............................................................... Okay, just this one reply on this subject, Jim. Taken from "The World of Mathematics", and article entitled "Newton, the Man", by John Maynard Keynes: " His deepest instincts were occult, esoteric, semantic - with profound shrinking from the world, a paralyzing fear of exposing his thoughts, his beliefs, his discoveries in all nakedness to the inspection and criticism of the world. 'Of the most fearful, cautious and suspicious temper that I ever knew', said Whiston, his successor in the Lucasian Chair. The too well-known conflicts and ignoble quarrels with Hooke, Flamsteed, Leibnitz are only too clear an evidence of this. Like all his type he was wholly aloof from women. He parted with and published nothing except under the extreme pressure of friends. Until the second phase of his life, he was a wrapt, consecrated solitary, pursuing his studies by intenese introspection with a mental endurance perhaps never equalled. [...] There is the story of how he informed Halley of one of his most fundamental discoveries of planetary motion. 'Yes', replied Halley, 'but how do you know that? Have you proved it?' Newton was taken aback - 'Why, I've known it for years', he replied. 'If you'll give me a few days, I'll certainly find you a proof of it' - as in due course he did." .. Blanc From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Lucky Green Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 08:28:43 +0800 To: Bill Frantz Subject: Re: Silly Shrinkwrapped Encryption In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Wed, 7 Jan 1998, Bill Frantz wrote: > I don't plan on using it, but the Swedes have a bit of an installed base > problem. Lotus made not secret of their GAK implementation in Notes. If the Swedish government bought Notes anyway, they have only themselves and the incompetence of their IS people to blame. Now they have to scrap a recently fielded system. Though luck. Better solutions than Notes were out there and easily to be found by the most casual buyer. -- Lucky Green PGP v5 encrypted email preferred. "Tonga? Where the hell is Tonga? They have Cypherpunks there?" From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Crisavec Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 17:48:28 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Re: cypherpunks and guns Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980109002532.0084c330@alaska.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain William H. Geiger III typethed the following... > >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > >In <19980107001651.29456@songbird.com>, on 01/07/98 > at 03:16 AM, Kent Crispin said: > >>On Wed, Jan 07, 1998 at 01:25:45AM -0600, snow wrote: >>> > I am fairly certain that as an irregular army soldier I could inflict >>> > a substantial amount of damage upon an occupying military. With maybe >>> > $20k in equipment and several hundred hours of training, you could make >>> >>> If you were smart, you could do it for a lot less. > >>That presumes the enemy is dumb. An amusing fantasy. > >The fact that they collect a paycheck from the government is prima facie >evidence of diminished mental capacity. Don't bet on.... There is only one war, and it's not between the whites and the blacks, Labour and the Conservatives, Democrats and Republicans, or the Federation and the Romulans, it's between those of us who aren't complete idiots and those of us who are. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 14:03:44 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd) Message-ID: <199801090626.AAA07213@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 20:41:47 -0800 > From: Tim May > Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd) > Add Choate to the list of dimbulbs who think calling me "Timmy" (or Timy) > is some kind of witty insult. On this list, Detweiler and Vulis seem to > favor this usage. We're awful testy tonite aren't we...believe me junior, if I want to jump in your shit I'll do it direct first person and in your face. Since it seems to have got stuck in your craw, I apologize for not asking you the correct usage of your name prior to typing it into my reply. In the future I think I'll use 'that crazy indipendently wealthy ex-Intel technologist and self-important testy gun nut that lives in California who almost got to see John Denvers plane crash'; is *that* ok with you? (not really, I think my fingers would cramp) > Jeez, and I don't even recall insulting Choate. Perhaps he got his nose out > of joint when I challenged his "all snipers use .223" piece of > misinformation. Unfortunately, for you, I never made that claim (if anything you did regarding some comments I made about some police snipers liking .308's) and therefore you didn't get to refute it. Whatever strategy you're on regarding drugs and alcohol, reverse it; the dementia are back. > Back in my killfile he goes. Incredible that he is even connected with one > of the Cypherpunks distribution points. Been there before, I won't loose any sleep that is for shure. > BTW, nowhere in my piece did I refer to myself as a "scientist." I spoke of > Wiles, and then of Gauss, Fermat, and Darwin. Certainly not directly, but considering your background and past comments it is an assumption that is justified. You most certainly feel qualified to discuss the distinctions and consequences thereof. Me, I consider myself a scientist and have since I was about 6 years old. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Robert A. Costner" Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 13:47:37 +0800 To: Declan McCullagh Subject: Re: Remailers & N.E.T. In-Reply-To: <199801090251.DAA10017@basement.replay.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980109004125.006a98ec@mail.atl.bellsouth.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 11:42 PM 1/8/98 -0500, Declan McCullagh wrote: >Sure. That provision of the CDA was not meant to apply to remailer >operators but online services, which cut a deal on that bill. Prosecutors >would point, I suspect, to legislative intent and say remailer operators >aren't covered; they'd say the text of the law is not unambiguous. I think it would be pretty hard to distinguish the Cracker Remailer from an Internet presence provider. If hotmail or tripod were to be covered under the CDA, then I would have to think Cracker would be as well. EFGA/Cracker offers accounts, has dedicated servers, and has no editorial control over content. At around 20,000 individual messages per week, I'd have to say we are as good of a small online service as anyone else - even if we only offer specialized services. Many ISPs only have 100 or so users and only about 1/6 of the connectivity of Cracker. -- Robert Costner Phone: (770) 512-8746 Electronic Frontiers Georgia mailto:pooh@efga.org http://www.efga.org/ run PGP 5.0 for my public key From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 14:19:37 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Timmy May demonstrated his ignorance and stupidity by writing: > > At 6:01 PM -0800 1/8/98, Jim Choate wrote: > > >Don't be confused by Timy's claim to be a scientist, he is a technologist at > >heart. Many of his views and beliefs are motivated by issues of control *not > >curiosity. > .... > >You don't know Timmy very well do you... > > Add Choate to the list of dimbulbs who think calling me "Timmy" (or Timy) > is some kind of witty insult. On this list, Detweiler and Vulis seem to > favor this usage. I like to call Timmy "Timmy" necause it's fun to watch Timmy twitch. > Next he'll be putting out ASCII art +-----#--+ | O # | Which one is Guy Polis | |#__O | and which one is Timmy May? |._#_> \ | +-#------+ Stop AIDS! > Back in my killfile he goes. Incredible that he is even connected with one > of the Cypherpunks distribution points. When Timmy claims to killfile someone, it really means that he's paying a special obsessive-compulsive attention to anything that person writes. Here, Timmy, Timmy, Timmy! --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 14:29:49 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Darwin's preface (a short history of evolution) [fwd] Message-ID: <199801090653.AAA07502@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Hi, Below is the 3rd preface to Darwin's 'Species', in it he clearly gives credit to Wallace as a co-discover of evolutionary theory. Even to the point of co-presenting the work to the Linnean Society on July 1, 1858. Oh, Erazmus Darwin was Charles' grandfather not uncle. Sorry for any confusion. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| Forwarded message: > Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 00:46:47 -0600 > X-within-URL: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/origin/preface.html > The Origin of Species > Preface to the Third Edition > by Charles Darwin > > I will here give a brief sketch of the progress of opinion on the > Origin of Species. Until recently the great majority of naturalists > believed that species were immutable productions, and had been > separately created. This view has been ably maintained by many > authors. Some few naturalists, on the other hand, have believed that > species undergo modification, and that the existing forms of life are > the descendants by true generation of pre-existing forms. Passing over > allusions to the subject in the classical writers,(1) the first author > who in modern times has treated it in a scientific spirit was Buffon. > But as his opinions fluctuated greatly at different periods, and as he > does not enter on the causes or means of the transformation of > species, I need not here enter on details. > > Lamarck was the first man whose conclusions on the subject excited > much attention. This justly-celebrated naturalist first published his > views in 1801; he much enlarged them in 1809 in his "Philosophie > Zoologique,' and subsequently, in 1815, in the Introduction to his > "Hist. Nat. des Animaux sans Vertébres.' In these works he upholds the > doctrine that species, including man, are descended from other > species. He first did the eminent service of arousing attention to the > probability of all change in the organic, as well as in the inorganic > world, being the result of law, and not of miraculous interposition. > Lamarck seems to have been chiefly led to his conclusion on the > gradual change of species, by the difficulty of distinguishing species > and varieties, by the almost perfect gradation of forms in certain > groups, and by the analogy of domestic productions. With respect to > the means of modification, he attributed something to the direct > action of the physical conditions of life, something to the crossing > of already existing forms, and much to use and disuse, that is, to the > effects of habit. To this latter agency he seemed to attribute all the > beautiful adaptations in nature; -- such as the long neck of the > giraffe for browsing on the branches of trees. But he likewise > believed in a law of progressive development; and as all the forms of > life thus tend to progress, in order to account for the existence at > the present day of simple productions, he maintains that such forms > are now spontaneously generated.(2) > > Geoffroy Saint-Hilaire, as is stated in his 'Life,' written by his > son, suspected, as early as 1795, that what we call species are > various degenerations of the same type. It was not until 1828 that he > published his conviction that the same forms have not been perpetuated > since the origin of all things. Geoffroy seems to have relied chiefly > on the conditions of life, or the 'monde ambiant' as the cause of > change. He was cautious in drawing conclusions, and did not believe > that existing species are now undergoing modification; and, as his son > adds, "C'est donc un problčme ŕ réserver entičrement ŕ l'avenir, > supposé meme que l'avenir doive avoir prise sur lui.' > > In 1813, Dr W. C. Wells read before the Royal Society 'An Account of a > White female, part of whose skin resembled that of a Negro'; but his > paper was not published until his famous 'Two Essays upon Dew and > Single Vision' appeared in 1818. In this paper he distinctly > recognises the principle of natural selection, and this is the first > recognition which has been indicated; but he applies it only to the > races of man, and to certain characters alone. After remarking that > negroes and mulattoes enjoy an immunity from certain tropical > diseases, he observes, firstly, that all animals tend to vary in some > degree, and, secondly, that agriculturists improve their domesticated > animals by selection; and then, he adds, but what is done in this > latter case 'by art, seems to be done with equal efficacy, though more > slowly, by nature, in the formation of varieties of mankind, fitted > for the country which they inhabit. Of the accidental varieties of > man, which would occur among the first few and scattered inhabitants > of the middle regions of Africa, some one would be better fitted than > the others to bear the diseases of the country. This race would > consequently multiply, while the others would decrease; not only from > their inability to sustain the attacks of disease, but from their > incapacity of contending with their more vigorous neighbours. The > colour of this vigorous race I take for granted, from what has been > already said, would be dark. But the same disposition to form > varieties still existing, a darker and a darker race would in the > course of time occur: and as the darkest would be the best fitted for > the climate, this would at length become the most prevalent; if not > the only race, in the particular country in which it had originated.' > He then extends these same views to the white inhabitants of colder > climates. I am indebted to Mr Rowley, of the United States, for having > called my attention, through Mr Brace, to the above passage in Dr > Wells' work. > > The Hon. and Rev. W. Herbert, afterwards Dean of Manchester, in the > fourth volume of the 'Horticultural Transactions,' 1822, and in his > work on the 'Amaryllidaceae' (1837, pp. 19, 339), declares that > 'horticultural experiments have established, beyond the possibility of > refutation, that botanical species are only a higher and more > permanent class of varieties.' He extends the same view to animals. > The Dean believes that single species of each genus were created in an > originally highly plastic condition, and that these have produced, > chiefly by intercrossing, but likewise by variation, all our existing > species. > > In 1826 Professor Grant, in the concluding paragraph in his well-known > paper ('Edinburgh philosophical journal,' vol. xiv. p. 283) on the > Spongilla, clearly declares his belief that species are descended from > other species, and that they become improved in the course of > modification. This same view was given in his 55th Lecture, published > in the 'Lancet' in 1834. > > In 1831 Mr Patrick Matthew published his work on 'Naval Timber and > Arboriculture,' in which he gives precisely the same view on the > origin of species as that (presently to be alluded to) propounded by > Mr Wallace and myself in the 'Linnean journal,' and as that enlarged > in the present volume. Unfortunately the view was given by Mr Matthew > very briefly in scattered passages in an Appendix to a work on a > different subject, so that it remained unnoticed until Mr Matthew > himself drew attention to it in the 'Gardener's Chronicle,' on April > 7th, 1860. The differences of Mr Matthew's view from mine are not of > much importance; he seems to consider that the world was nearly > depopulated at successive periods, and then re-stocked; and he gives > as an alternative, that new forms may be generated ' without the > presence of any mould or germ of former aggregates.' I am not sure > that I understand some passages; but it seems that he attributes much > influence to the direct action of the conditions of life. He clearly > saw, however, the full force of the principle of natural selection. > > The celebrated geologist and naturalist, Von Buch, in his excellent > 'Description physique des Isles Canaries' (1836, p. 147), clearly > expresses his belief that varieties slowly become changed into > permanent species, which are no longer capable of intercrossing. > > Rafinesque, in his 'New Flora of North America,' published in 1836, > wrote (p. 6) as follows:- 'All species might have been varieties once, > and many varieties are gradually becoming species by assuming constant > and peculiar characters'; but farther on (p. 18) he adds, 'except the > original types or ancestors of the genus.' > > In 1843-44 Professor Haldeman ('Boston journal of Nat. Hist. U. > States, vol. iv. p. 468) has ably given the arguments for and against > the hypothesis of the development and modification of species: he > seems to lean towards the side of change. > > The 'Vestiges of Creation' appeared in 1844. In the tenth and much > improved edition (1853) the anonymous author says (p. 155):- 'The > proposition determined on after much consideration is, that the > several series of animated beings, from the simplest and oldest up to > the highest and most recent, are, under the providence of God, the > results, first, of an impulse which has been imparted to the forms of > life, advancing them, in definite times, by generation, through grades > of organisation terminating in the highest dicotyledons- and > vertebrata, these grades being few in number, and generally marked by > intervals of organic character, which we find to be a practical > difficulty in ascertaining affinities; second, of another impulse > connected with the vital forces, tending, in the course of > generations, to modify organic structures in accordance with external > circumstances, as food, the nature of the habitat, and the meteoric > agencies, these being the ''adaptations'' of the natural theologian.' > The author apparently believes that organisation progresses by sudden > leaps, but that the effects produced by the conditions of life are > gradual. He argues with much force on general grounds that species are > not immutable productions. But I cannot see how the two supposed > 'impulses' account in a scientific sense for the numerous and > beautiful co-adaptations which we see throughout nature; I cannot see > that we thus gain any insight how, for instance, a woodpecker has > become adapted to its peculiar habits of Life. The work, from its > powerful and brilliant style, though displaying in the earlier > editions little accurate knowledge and a great want of scientific > caution, immediately had a very wide circulation. In my opinion it has > done excellent service in this country in calling attention to the > subject, in removing prejudice, and in thus preparing the ground for > the reception of analogous views. > > In 1846 the veteran geologist N. J. d'Omalius d'Halloy published in an > excellent though short paper ("Bulletins de l'Acad. Roy Bruxelles,' > tom. xiii. p. 581) his opinion that it is more probable that new > species have been produced by descent with modification than that they > have been separately created: the author first promulgated this > opinion in 1831. > > Professor Owen, in 1849 ('Nature of Limbs,' p. 86), wrote as follows:- > "The archetypal idea was manifested in the flesh under diverse such > modifications, upon this planet, long prior to the existence of those > animal species that actually exemplify it. To what natural laws or > secondary causes the orderly succession and progression of such > organic phenomena may have been committed, we, as yet, are ignorant.' > In his Address to the British Association, in 1858, he speaks (p. li.) > of "the axiom of the continuous operation of creative power, or of the > ordained becoming of living things.' Farther on (p. xc.), after > referring to geographical distribution, he adds, 'These phenomena > shake our confidence in the conclusion that the Apteryx of New Zealand > and the Red Grouse of England were distinct creations in and for those > islands respectively. Always, also, it may be well to bear in mind > that by the word ''creation'' the zoologist means '"a process he knows > not what.'' He amplifies this idea by adding that when such cases as > that of the Red Grouse are enumerated by the zoologists as evidence of > distinct creation of the bird in and for such islands, he chiefly > expresses that he knows not how the Red Grouse came to be there, and > there exclusively; signifying also, by this mode of expressing such > ignorance, his belief that both the bird and the islands owed their > origin to a great first Creative Cause.' If we interpret these > sentences given in the same Address, one by the other, it appears that > this eminent philosopher felt in 1858 his confidence shaken that the > Apteryx and the Red Grouse first appeared in their respective homes, > 'he knew not how,' or by some process 'he knew not what.' > > This Address was delivered after the papers by Mr Wallace and myself > on the Origin of Species, presently to be referred to, had been read > before the Linnean Society. When the first edition of this work was > published, I was so completely deceived, as were many others, by such > expressions as 'the continuous operation of creative power,' that I > included Professor Owen with other palaeontologists as being firmly > convinced of the immutability of species; but it appears ('Anat. of > Vertebrates,' vol. iii. p. 796) that this was on my part a > preposterous error. In the last edition of this work I inferred, and > the inference still seems to me perfectly just, from a passage > beginning with the words 'no doubt the type-form,' &c. (Ibid. vol. i. > p. xxxv.), that Professor Owen admitted that natural selection may > have done something in the formation of a new species; but this it > appears (Ibid. vol. nl. p. 798) is inaccurate and without evidence. I > also gave some extracts from a correspondence between Professor Owen > and the Editor of the 'London Review,' from which it appeared manifest > to the Editor as well as to myself, that Professor Owen claimed to > have promulgated the theory of natural selection before I had done so; > and I expressed my surprise and satisfaction at this announcement; but > as far as it is possible to understand certain recently published > passages (Ibid. vol. iii. p. 798) I have either partially or wholly > again fallen into error. It is consolatory to me that others find > Professor Owen's controversial writings as difficult to understand and > to reconcile with each other, as I do. As far as the mere enunciation > of the principle of natural selection is concerned, it is quite > immaterial whether or not Professor Owen preceded me, for both of us, > as shown in this historical sketch, were long ago preceded by Dr Wells > and Mr Matthews. > > M. Isidore Geoffroy Saint-Hilaire, in his lectures delivered in 1850 > (of which a Résumé appeared in the 'Revue et Nag. de Zoolog.,' Jan. > 1851), briefly gives his reason for believing that specific characters > "sont fixés, pour chaque espčce, tant qu'elle se perpétue au milieu > des mčmes circonstances: ils se modifient, si les circonstances > ambiantes viennent ŕ changer.' 'En résumé, l'observation des animaux > sauvages démontre déjŕ la variabilité limité des espčces. Les > expériences sur les animaux sauvages devenus domestiques, et sur les > animaux domestiques redevenus sauvages, la démontrent plus clairement > encore. Ces memes expériences prouvent, de plus, que les différences > produites peuvent etre de valeur générique.' In his 'Hist. Nat. > Généralé (tom. ii. p. 430, 1859) he amplifies analogous conclusions. > > From a circular lately issued it appears that Dr Freke, in 1851 > ("Dublin Medical Press,' p. 322), propounded the doctrine that all > organic beings have descended from one primordial form. His grounds of > belief and treatment of the subject are wholly different from mine; > but as Dr Freke has now (1861) published his Essay on the 'Origin of > Species by means of Organic Affinity,' the difficult attempt to give > any idea of his views would be superfluous on my part. > > Mr Herbert Spencer, in an Essay (originally published in the 'Leader,' > March, 1852, and republished in his 'Essays,' in 1858), has contrasted > the theories of the Creation and the Development of organic beings > with remarkable skill and force. He argues from the analogy of > domestic productions, from the changes which the embryos of many > species undergo, from the difficulty of distinguishing species and > varieties, and from the principle of general gradation, that species > have been modified; and he attributes the modification to the change > of circumstances. The author (1855) has also treated psychology on the > principle of the necessary acquirement of each mental power and > capacity by gradation. > > In 1852 M. Naudin, a distinguished botanist, expressly stated, in an > admirable paper on the Origin of Species ('Revue Horticole, p. 102; > since partly republished in the 'Nouvelles Archives du Muséum,' tom. > i. p. 171), his belief that species are formed in an analogous manner > as varieties are under cultivation; and the latter process he > attributes to man's power of selection. But he does not show how > selection acts under nature. He believes, like Dean Herbert, that > species, when nascent, were more plastic than at present. He lays > weight on what he calls the principle of finality, 'puissance > mystérieuse, indéterminée; fatalité pour les uns; pour les autres > volonté providentielle, dont l'action incessante sur les čtres vivants > détermine, ŕ toutes les époques de l'existence du monde, la forme, le > volume, et la durée de chacun d'eux, en raison de sa destinée dans > l'ordre de choses dont il fait partie. C'est cette puissance qui > harmonise chaque membre ŕ l'ensemble, en l'appropriant ŕ la fonction > qu'il doit remplir dans l'organisme général de la nature, fonction qui > est pour lui sa raison d'čtre.'(3) > > In 1853 a celebrated geologist, Count Keyserling ("Bulletin de la Soc. > Gčolog.,' 2nd Ser., tom. x. p. 357), suggested that as new diseases, > supposed to have been caused by some miasma, have arisen and spread > over the world, so at certain periods the germs of existing species > may have been chemically affected by circumambient molecules of a > particular nature, and thus have given rise to new forms. > > In this same year, 1853, Dr Schaaffhausen published an excellent > pamphlet ('Verhand. des Naturhist. Vereins der preuss. Rheinlands,' > &c.), in which he maintains the development of organic forms on the > earth. He infers that many species have kept true for long periods, > whereas a few have become modified. The distinction of species he > explains by the destruction of intermediate graduated forms. 'Thus > living plants and animals are not separated from the extinct by new > creations, but are to be regarded as their descendants through > continued reproduction.' > > A well-known French botanist, M. Lecoq, writes in 1854 ('Etudes sur > Géograph. Bot.,' tom. i. p. 250), 'On voit que nos recherches sur la > fixité ou la variation de l'espčce, nous conduisent directement aux > idées émises, par deux hommes justement célčbres, Geoffroy > Saint-Hilaire et Goethe.' Some other passages scattered through M. > Lecoq's large work, make it a little doubtful how far he extends his > views on the modification of species. > > The 'Philosophy of Creation' has been treated in a masterly manner by > the Rev. Baden Powell, in his "Essays on the Unity of Worlds,' 1855. > Nothing can be more striking than the manner in which he shows that > the introduction of new species is "a regular, not a casual > phenomenon,' or, as Sir John Herschel expresses it, 'a natural in > contradistinction to a miraculous, process.' > > The third volume of the "Journal of the Linnean Society' contains > papers, read July 1st, 1858, by Mr Wallace and myself, in which, as > stated in the introductory remarks to this volume, the theory of > Natural Selection is promulgated by Mr Wallace with admirable force > and clearness. > > Von Baer, towards whom all zoologists feel so profound a respect, > expressed about the year 1859 (see Prof. Rudolph Wagner, a > "Zoologisch-Anthropologische Untersuchungen,' 1861, s. 51) his > conviction, chiefly grounded on the laws of geographical distribution, > that forms now perfectly distinct have descended from a single > parent-form. > > In June, 1859, Professor Huxley gave a lecture before the Royal > Institution on the 'Persistent Types of Animal Life.' Referring to > such cases, he remarks, "It is difficult to comprehend the meaning of > such facts as these, if we suppose that each species of animal and > plant, or each great type of organisation, was formed and placed upon > the surface of the globe at long intervals by a distinct act of > creative power; and it is well to recollect that such an assumption is > as unsupported by tradition or revelation as it is opposed to the > general analogy of nature. If, on the other hand, we view 'Persistent > Types' in relation to that hypothesis which supposes the species > living at any time to be the result of the gradual modification of > pre-existing species a hypothesis which, though unproven, and sadly > damaged by some of its supporters, is yet the only one to which > physiology lends any countenance; their existence would seem to show > that the amount of modification which living beings have undergone > during geological time is but very small in relation to the whole > series of changes which they have suffered.' > > In December, 1859, Dr Hooker published his 'Introduction to the > Australian Flora.' In the first part of this great work he admits the > truth of the descent and modification of species, and supports this > doctrine by many original observations. > > The first edition of this work was published on November 24th, 1859, > and the second edition on January 7th, 1860. > > Footnotes > > (1) Aristotle, in his 'Physicae Auscultationes' (lib. 2, cap. 8, s. > 2), after remarking that rain does not fall in order to make the corn > grow, any more than it falls to spoil the farmer's corn when threshed > out of doors, applies the same argument to organization: and adds (as > translated by Mr Clair Grece, who first pointed out the passage to > me), 'So what hinders the different parts [of the body] from having > this merely accidental relation in nature? as the teeth, for example, > grow by necessity, the front ones sharp, adapted for dividing, and the > grinders flat, and serviceable for masticating the food; since they > were not made for the sake of this, but it was the result of accident. > And in like manner as to the other parts in which there appears to > exist an adaptation to an end. Wheresoever, therefore, all things > together (that is all the parts of one whole) happened like as if they > were made for the sake of something, these were preserved, having been > appropriately constituted by an internal spontaneity, and whatsoever > things were not thus constituted, perished, and still perish. We here > see the principle of natural selection shadowed forth, but how little > Aristotle fully comprehended the principle, is shown by his remarks on > the formation of the teeth. > > (2) I have taken the date of the first publication of Lamarck from > Isid. Geoffroy Saint-Hilaire's ('Hist. Nat. Générale,' tom. ii. p. > 405, 1859) excellent history of opinion on this subject. In this work > a full account is given of Buffon's conclusions on the same subject. > It is curious how largely my grandfather, Dr Erasmus Darwin, > anticipated the views and erroneous grounds of opinion of Lamarck in > his 'Zoonomia' (vol. i. pp. 500-510), published in 1794. According to > Isid. Geoffroy there is no doubt that Goethe was an extreme partisan > of similar views, as shown in the Introduction to a work written in > 1794 and 1795, but not published till long afterwards: he has > pointedly remarked ('Goethe als Naturforscher,' von Dr Karl Medinge s. > 34) that the future question for naturalists will be how, for > instance, cattle got their horns, and not for what they are used. It > is rather a singular instance of the manner in which similar views > arise at about the same time, that Goethe in Germany, Dr Darwin in > England, and Geoffroy Saint-Hilaire (as we shall immediately see) in > France; came to the same conclusion on the origin of species, in the > years 1794-5. > > (3) From references in Bronn's 'Untersuchungen über die > Entwickenlungs-Gesetze,' it appears that the celebrated botanist and > palaeontologist Unger published, in 1852, his belief that species > undergo development and modification. Dalton, likewise, in Pander and > Dalton's work on Fossil Sloths, expressed, in 1821 a similar belief. > Similar views have, as is well known, been maintained by Oken in his > mystical 'Natur-philosophie.' From other references in Godron's work > 'Sur l'Espéce,' it seems that Bory St Vincent, Burdach, Poiret, and > Fries, have all admitted that new species are continually being > produced. > > I may add, that of the thirty-four authors named in this Historical > Sketch, who believe in the modification of species, or at least > disbelieve in separate acts of creation, twenty-seven have written on > special branches of natural history or geology. > > > Contents > Introduction > > > > > > > Home Page | Browse | Search | Feedback | Links > The FAQ | Must-Read Files | Index | Creationism | Evolution | Age of > the Earth | Flood Geology | Catastrophism | Debates > From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 14:42:09 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd) Message-ID: <199801090707.BAA07580@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 22:06:38 -0800 > From: Blanc > Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality > BTW, you should consider that when Einstein proposed the creation of a > bomb, it was within the context of a war being advanced globally by an evil > madman who was gathering every resource to subdue and decimate everything > in his way, and that the rest of the world was desperate for a solution. Um, actualy Einstein didn't propose a bomb. I believe Leo Szilard approached Einstein with a letter asking the President to begin an initiative. The motivation was because most of the really worthwhile German physicists working on the Nazi programs left the Nazi sphere. The fear was that since Germany had the *only* supply of heavy water in the world and the only state backed program in the field that if the US didn't do something they would loose the bomb in a series of bright flashes. I also, don't believe the war had actualy started when Einstein was approaced by Leo on Aug. 2, 1939. > Also you should remember that some brilliant people, like Newton, who was a > shy man and didn't necessarily see himself as others did/do, did not care > if anyone else saw the results of his work. He certainly went to great pains to publish it, even anonymously in some cases and out of his own pocket. > Once he had solved the > problems in his own mind, he was not exceptionally concerned that others > were also struggling with the same, nor whether "the community" needed the > answer. He was pursuing knowledge for reasons of his own. He pursued knowledge for deep religous reasons, according to his notes. Newton was also the Exchequer of England and had 3 peopled hanged for stealing gold from the government mint. He took the job because he had pissed so many people off at the time because of his attitude that he couldn't find work. It was prior to him becoming know as the 'Lion of England' and gaining life tenure. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 15:07:38 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd) Message-ID: <199801090731.BAA07695@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd) > From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) > Date: Thu, 08 Jan 98 23:45:25 EST > > Janos Bolyai was the son of the math professor Farkas B. in Buda(best). Who also worked with Gauss and probably beat Gauss to any solution to the problem of non-euclidean geometry (see Kurzer Grundriss eines Versuchs, p. 46). > In 1832 he published his findings as an appendix > to his father's textbook. Actualy his father published it as an afterthought to get him to quit working on Euclids Parallels. It was published in Tomus Secundus (1833, pp. 265 - 322) written by his father. > arises if you omit this axiom. According to my sources, the appendix > is "Wronski-like" to the point of unreadability. Apparently no one > actually read it until B. started arguing about who did what first. Both John Bolyai's "The Science of Absolute Space" and Nicholas Lobachevski's "The Theory of Parallels" are included in Roberto Bonola's "Non-euclidean Geometry" (Dover, ISBN 0-486-60027-0 $5.50). I certainly had no problem reading the 3 combined books. I was just looking at the translators notes to Lobachevski, it was done by George Bruce Halsted of 2407 San Marcos St, Austin, Tx. May 1, 1891. > well accepted by his peers. Neither Bolyai nor Lobachevsky knew about > Gauss's work. Not true, Bolyai wrote him several letters as described in his book and the various prefaces. Lobachevski's book was promoted by Gauss as the first and truely critical work on non-euclidean geometry. In a rare show of magnamity Gauss even admits that Lobachevski's work exceeded his own. > I have no idea what Bonola wrote, but if he's just repeating the allegations > Bolyai made about Gauss while suffering from depression and paranoia, they > have no more truth in them than the Timmy May rants on this mailing list. He wrote a classic work on non-euclidean geometry that was quite popular in 1912 when it was printed. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Anonymous Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 17:56:11 +0800 To: cypherpunks@algebra.com Subject: Re: [Censored] Quote of the Day (fwd) Message-ID: <6a88eb4a1c645a0937bc001a779b25d1@anon.efga.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain John Young wrote: >DPS sumbitch ran me down near DFW, me and my crap filled van, >my mangy hide and shaggy hair, my NY plates, my wildly dumped >substances, and sat behind for a few drags of AC in 100 degree heat, >miked in the number, adjusted his mirrors, tilted the vidcam skyward, >and climbed out, a big, very big widowmaker high on his fat ass, >hustled his privates, spat juice, and farted hard enough to quiver the >VW and me. I think John has been skipping his meds again. Come on, John, the pill is your friend! From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 10:55:56 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: Remailers & N.E.T. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801090251.DAA10017@basement.replay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Thu, 8 Jan 1998, Declan McCullagh wrote: > I would be very afraid of relying on the CDA's immunizing provisions as my > sole defense against prosecution, conviction, and jail time, were I a > remailer operator. Could you clarify what you mean by that? From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Lucky Green Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 13:47:45 +0800 To: Jrbl Pookah Subject: Re: Encrypted Telephony Products In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Mon, 5 Jan 1998, Jrbl Pookah wrote: > > > I've recently begun looking for internet telephony products that > employ reasonably secure encryption on-the-fly. Now, I've found Nautilus, > and PGPFone, but neither product appears to have been updated for quite a > while now. I was just wondering if anybody could give me recommendations > for more up-to-date products, and perhaps comparisons between those > available. The most popular encrypting Internet telephony product at the moment is SpeekFreely. http://www.fourmilab.ch/speakfree/windows/ Have fun, -- Lucky Green PGP v5 encrypted email preferred. "Tonga? Where the hell is Tonga? They have Cypherpunks there?" From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: anonymous304@juno.com (Anony J Man) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 20:17:18 +0800 To: real@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Subject: Re: your mail In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <19980109.065815.3334.0.anonymous304@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Thu, 8 Jan 1998 13:54:41 -0700 (MST) Graham-John Bullers writes: >On Thu, 8 Jan 1998, Mix wrote: > >I think Vulis needs each of us to send ten copies of this back to him. I think so too what's his email address????? Anonymous304 >> Tim C. May's reheated, refurbished, and regurgitated cud is >> completely inappropriate for the mailing lists into which it is >> cross-ruminated. >> >> | | >> | O | Tim C. May >> (--|--) >> | >> / \ >> > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Graham-John Bullers Moderator of >alt.2600.moderated >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > email : : > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > http://www.freenet.edmonton.ab.ca/~real/index.html >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 14:22:48 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Accounts payable Message-ID: <199801090607.HAA01799@basement.replay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Timmy C[rook] May is just a poor excuse for an unschooled, retarded thug. (_) _____ (_) /O O\ Timmy C[rook] May ! I ! ! \___/ ! \_____/ From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Secret Squirrel Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 17:56:14 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: a good example of bad crypto hype Message-ID: <7e0eaee2121f060fe7825adfc519b545@squirrel> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >at http://www.meganet.com/explain.htm >you can test your critical thinking skills... Bawahahahaha. That's the biggest bunch of complete bullshit I've read in years. Thanks, Meganet, you made my night. They must be smoking crack and a lot of it. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Ryan Lackey Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 21:42:54 +0800 To: David Honig Subject: Re: Jim Bell... lives... on... in... Hollywood! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain (David Honig) writes: > At 10:48 PM 1/7/98 -0800, Sergey Goldgaber wrote: > > > >1 - Anonymity is technically feasable. > > > >2 - This requirement is a legal necessity. Otherwise, the organization > > may be seen as advocating murder. > > > >Obviously, if the "Death Pool" was fully anonymous, there would be > >no way to tell if the winner had contributed in any way to the death. > > > >Thus, I think we may be well on our way to Assasination Politics. > > > > - Sergey Goldgaber > > I agree, but "contribute to death" needs to be operationalized. Here's a > proposal: > If a homicide suspect is arrested within N months, they will be isolated > from the net > and the owner of the winning ID will have to perform a challenge-response. > Since > the suspect couldn't have replied, they are different; if a pair > collaborated, well, > when a hit man is caught, his payoff matrix will usually make him turn in > the client. Given strong cryptography and something like my current Eternity DDS almost prototype (a reliable distributed way of selling storage-compute-bandwidth being the relevant part), why couldn't the incarcerated person have left an agent out on the net to handle the challenge for him, and hold the money in anonymous trust for him until he gets out? I can't think of any anonymity-preserving system which contains an "is-a-person" predicate -- even if you asked an AI-hard question, you could blind the question and post it to usenet or CNN or something and quote one of those responses (which would be wise to do anyway for styleometry prevention). The other option is having a non-anonymous system, or one that is anonymous until someone tries to collect the prize, but in that case, it's not all that interesting a problem. Ryan the Nightshifted -- Ryan Lackey rdl@mit.edu http://mit.edu/rdl/ From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 23:02:50 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd) Message-ID: <199801091519.JAA08621@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 00:01:22 -0800 > From: Blanc > Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd) > " His deepest instincts were occult, esoteric, semantic - with profound > shrinking from the world, a paralyzing fear of exposing his thoughts, his > beliefs, his discoveries in all nakedness to the inspection and criticism > of the world. 'Of the most fearful, cautious and suspicious temper that I > ever knew', said Whiston, > The too > well-known conflicts and ignoble quarrels with Hooke, Flamsteed, Leibnitz > are only too clear an evidence of this. Would you or Keynes like to explain how such an aloof character could have had so many 'well-known' conflicts without publishing and discussing his and others work? How can somebody who supposedly never published have become so well know? I guess he got somebody else to stand in for him in the various discourses he partook of at the Royal Society meetings. > He parted with and published nothing except under the > extreme pressure of friends. I would suggest a simple trip to the library and look at what is published by Newton. If I get the chance I'll take a look and catalog some of the anonymous publishing that are attributed to him. It may take a while, this unfortunately can't reside very high on my list of priorities; sorry. > Until the second phase of his life, he was a > wrapt, consecrated solitary, pursuing his studies by intenese introspection > with a mental endurance perhaps never equalled. Would you or Keynes like to explain exactly how a government employee, ,as the Exchequer or as a Professor of Natural Philosophy (Physics) would remain solitary? I guess Newton went to the various mints (if memory serves at the time there were 3) and did his other duties including presenting cases in court related to theft and counterfeiting by proxy? > There is the story of how he informed Halley of one of his most fundamental > discoveries of planetary motion. 'Yes', replied Halley, 'but how do you > know that? Have you proved it?' Newton was taken aback - 'Why, I've known > it for years', he replied. 'If you'll give me a few days, I'll certainly > find you a proof of it' - as in due course he did." Yeah, Halley had just seen the comet and was trying to figure out it's orbit. He approached many people on the issue and Newton was the only one who could resolve the issue in England. Because of the long periodicity and the fact that Halley didn't have 3 sightings he couldn't use the standard orbit calculations. By using calculus, which Newton had invented and Halley didn't know, it was possible to calculate an envelope of orbits. Haley then researched records of sightings and determined that only one comet with a 75+ year orbit could be it. If Newton was so unknown from not publishing why did Halley even care to ask Newton? Halley was a pretty notable character in his own right. He was given a ship to do the first magnetic map of the N. Atlantic, he called it 'Paramour Pink' (Pink Lover). He and the prince of Russia would also push themselves around London in a wheelbarrow drunk as skunks... ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Anonymous Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 17:54:16 +0800 To: matrix@meganet.com Subject: a good example of bad crypto hype Message-ID: <199801090825.JAA16425@basement.replay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >at http://www.meganet.com/explain.htm >you can test your critical thinking skills... Bawahahahaha. That's the biggest bunch of complete bullshit I've read in years. Thanks, Meganet, you made my night. They must be smoking crack and a lot of it. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 23:09:56 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd) Message-ID: <199801091529.JAA08683@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: Forwarded message: > Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 00:01:22 -0800 > From: Blanc > Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd) > " His deepest instincts were occult, esoteric, semantic - with profound > shrinking from the world, a paralyzing fear of exposing his thoughts, his > beliefs, his discoveries in all nakedness to the inspection and criticism > of the world. 'Of the most fearful, cautious and suspicious temper that I > ever knew', said Whiston, Sorry, I didn't think of this before... Did either Keynes or Whiston happen to mention that Newton was an alchemist? ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: David Honig Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 02:22:06 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980109093824.007acbb0@206.40.207.40> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 12:42 AM 1/9/98 EST, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote: >Timmy May demonstrated his ignorance and stupidity by writing: > >> >> At 6:01 PM -0800 1/8/98, Jim Choate wrote: >> >> >Don't be confused by Timy's claim to be a scientist, he is a technologist at >> >heart. Many of his views and beliefs are motivated by issues of control *not >> >curiosity. >> .... >> >You don't know Timmy very well do you... >> >> Add Choate to the list of dimbulbs who think calling me "Timmy" (or Timy) >> is some kind of witty insult. On this list, Detweiler and Vulis seem to >> favor this usage. > >I like to call Timmy "Timmy" necause it's fun to watch Timmy twitch. Didn't you have siblings to taunt as an adolescent? Didn't your mother tell you its not attractive? Haven't you learned that jabs at ideas are not the same at jabs at the person? ------------------------------------------------------------ David Honig Orbit Technology honig@otc.net Intaanetto Jigyoubu "How do you know you are not being deceived?" ---A Compendium of Analytic TradeCraft Notes, Directorate of Intelligence, CIA From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Ian Sparkes Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 17:56:08 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com Subject: Re: Silly Shrinkwrapped Encryption In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980109094653.006a7a4c@q9f47.dmst02.telekom.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >Lotus made not secret of their GAK implementation in Notes. If the Swedish >government bought Notes anyway, they have only themselves and the >incompetence of their IS people to blame. > >Now they have to scrap a recently fielded system. Though luck. Better >solutions than Notes were out there and easily to be found by the most >casual buyer. > People buy Notes for the databases - the mail is just a freebie for most, a bit like the radio in your car. The mail's not even very good (adequate at most). Anyone know if the databases are encrypted with the same GAK scheme? From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: David Honig Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 02:22:39 +0800 To: Ryan Lackey Subject: Re: Jim Bell... lives... on... in... Hollywood! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980109094914.007b36b0@206.40.207.40> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 08:28 AM 1/9/98 -0500, Ryan Lackey wrote: > (David Honig) writes: > >> >> I agree, but "contribute to death" needs to be operationalized. Here's a >> proposal: >> If a homicide suspect is arrested within N months, they will be isolated >> from the net >> and the owner of the winning ID will have to perform a challenge-response. >> Since >> the suspect couldn't have replied, they are different; if a pair >> collaborated, well, >> when a hit man is caught, his payoff matrix will usually make him turn in >> the client. > >Given strong cryptography and something like my current Eternity DDS >almost prototype (a reliable distributed way of selling >storage-compute-bandwidth being the relevant part), why couldn't the >incarcerated person have left an agent out on the net to handle the >challenge for him, and hold the money in anonymous trust for him until >he gets out? I can't think of any anonymity-preserving system which >contains an "is-a-person" predicate -- even if you asked an AI-hard >question, you could blind the question and post it to usenet or CNN >or something and quote one of those responses (which would be wise to >do anyway for styleometry prevention). > >The other option is having a non-anonymous system, or one that is >anonymous until someone tries to collect the prize, but in that case, >it's not all that interesting a problem. > >Ryan the Nightshifted >-- >Ryan Lackey >rdl@mit.edu >http://mit.edu/rdl/ > I think this gets into legal issues. Consider fraudelent insurance and gambling schemes involving collaboration -illegal, but hard to detect unless someone turns. Consider a hit man who takes the fall for the boss, so that his family is taken care of. In these cases and in an AP scheme, the law can't prove much if certain parties collaborate. Maybe the winner of the "BATF agents blown up in 97" bet *is* John Doe III; but since the investigation claims no such person, and the winner is not in jail now, the winner has fairly earned their reward via their skill in actuarial matters. ------------------------------------------------------------ David Honig Orbit Technology honig@otc.net Intaanetto Jigyoubu "How do you know you are not being deceived?" ---A Compendium of Analytic TradeCraft Notes, Directorate of Intelligence, CIA From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 02:10:03 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: In God We Antitrust, from the Netly News In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 9:15 AM -0800 1/9/98, Declan McCullagh wrote: >In God We Antitrust >by Declan McCullagh (declan@well.com) > > Bill Gates likes to portray himself as a businessman hounded by > hordes of boorish bureaucrats who resent his success. "It's absolutely > clear that our competitors are spending an enormous amount of time and > money trying to whip up anti-Microsoft sentiment in Washington, D.C.," > says spokesman Mark Murray. "For the past year, Netscape, Sun and > other competitors have been crawling all over Washington, D.C., trying > to use the government as a weapon against Microsoft -- rather than > competing head-to-head in the marketplace." > > Of course, that's what you'd expect a PR flack to say, whether > it's true or not. But maybe, just maybe, Microsoft has a point. Of course they have a point. CNN reported yesterday that "popular sentiment" is shifting *against* Microsoft, that they are losing the war of words with Our Friend, The Government. The sheeple believe what the Government media machine spews. The "ganging up" on MS is the ganging up on anyone who is too successful and who doesn't play the game properly. (Some of us have already commented on how Microsoft's failure to tithe enough to the political machines may have something to do with their problems. Ironically, many companies have been indicte *bribery* charges (e.g., Lockheed, others) for doing what the political machines in Amerika expect to be done...only we call the bribes "voluntary" donations...sort of a political campaign version of "mandatory voluntary.") The next such battle will be about Intel, which, if anything, has even more of a commanding presence in the market than MS has. Besides "investigations" (a DC codeword meaning: "donate money to the ruling party"), the antitrust buzz is that the Intel-DEC deal may be scotched. Intel's failed competitors (Cyrix, AMD, Motorola, Sun, SGI/MIPS, Intergraph) can be counted on to run crying to Mother Government, crying that Intel is too successful. A truly fucked up country. We need to cut the head off the beast. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 00:54:39 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801090731.BAA07695@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Jim Choate writes: > > From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) > > Date: Thu, 08 Jan 98 23:45:25 EST > > > > Janos Bolyai was the son of the math professor Farkas B. in Buda(best). > > Who also worked with Gauss and probably beat Gauss to any solution to the > problem of non-euclidean geometry (see Kurzer Grundriss eines Versuchs, > p. 46). I'm sorry, I don't have the time to look this up. If you're trying to prove that Gauss was not a nice person, I don't believe it. And if the best argument you can make is to cite Bolyai's claims that Lobachevsky was not a real person but a "tentacle" of Gauss, created to persecute Bolyai (gee, that sounds vaguely familiar...), and you can't find any more dirt on Gauss, then it proves to me that he was indeed a remarkably nice person. Gauss rose from poverty to become one of the premier mathematicians of his time - in the era when sciences were considered a hobby suitable only for the noble-born and wealthy. Gauss did a lot to help other people in many ways, both as individuals, and in targeting his research to solve practical problems for good of the humanity. I was very fortunate to have met Paul Erdos and some living people whom I regard as mathematicial geniuses (not necessarily on par with Gauss); without exception their talents make them wonderful helpful people. You also haven't explained how Bolyai could have been Gauss's school friend, being 25 years younger. Crypto-relevant stuff: In 11-17 centuries, mathematicians who weren't independently wealthy, made their living by selling their service to/as "reckoners" (computers), accountants, bookkeepers, and astrologers. There was, you may recall, a similar dispute between Tartagla and some other Italian about who first discovered the formula for roots of 3rd order polynomials. This problem had some use in computing the internal rate of return (a practical accounting problem of interest at that time), but the main reason why each wanted to claim priority was for marketing reason: being its inventor would have enhanced their reputation and allowed them to charge higher fees or to get new clients for their bookkeeping businesses (because that's what they did for a living). So, the following technique emerged and was widely used by mathematicians at that time to claim the peiority. They would write out their result (or the proof); they would make an anagram, or take the first letter of each (latin) word, etc; and they would mass-mail it to every mathematician they knew, so they'd receive it at about the same time; then they'd publish it at leisure, knowing that once they decode the anagram or publish the proof whose first letters coincide with their broadcast, it will be evident that they had it on the date it was first mailed, yet they haven't revealed enough information for anyone to steal the result. The nice folks in goettingen who kept publishing Gauss's papers up until WW2 found that he too came up with a non-Euclidean geometry in 1818 (when Bolyai was 16 years old). They did not report finding any communications from Bolyai to Gauss about non-euclidean geometry in that time frame. Unfortunately if Bolyai makes the claims that he communicated his results privately to Gauss and that Gauss then concocted a tentacle named Lobachevsky, who's not a real person, then I have to discard the entire claim as a figment of his psychotic imagination. > > > arises if you omit this axiom. According to my sources, the appendix > > is "Wronski-like" to the point of unreadability. Apparently no one > > actually read it until B. started arguing about who did what first. > > Both John Bolyai's "The Science of Absolute Space" and Nicholas > Lobachevski's "The Theory of Parallels" are included in Roberto Bonola's > "Non-euclidean Geometry" (Dover, ISBN 0-486-60027-0 $5.50). I certainly had > no problem reading the 3 combined books. > > I was just looking at the translators notes to Lobachevski, it was done > by George Bruce Halsted of 2407 San Marcos St, Austin, Tx. May 1, 1891. What's your point? Are you suggesting that Lobachevsky first published it that year? He was long dead by then. He first gave a talk on non-euclidean geometry in 1825 and published the seminal paper in 1829 - before Bolyai's work was published in 1832 as an appendix to his father's textbook. Bolyai saw the German translation of Lobachevsky's paper in 1840. Are you trying to say that a paper's not really published until it's translated into english by some guy in Texas? :-) > > > well accepted by his peers. Neither Bolyai nor Lobachevsky knew about > > Gauss's work. > > Not true, Bolyai wrote him several letters as described in his book and the > various prefaces. Lobachevski's book was promoted by Gauss as the first and > truely critical work on non-euclidean geometry. In a rare show of magnamity > Gauss even admits that Lobachevski's work exceeded his own. What exactly is your beef with Gauss promoting Lobachevsky? When Lobachevsky's paper reached Europe, the "consensus" (I hate consensuses) among the working mathematicians was that non-euclidean geometry was nuts. Incidentally, Bolyai was among the people screaming that it was all wrong and renouncing his own 1832 publication. Gauss could have announced that he came up with the same results before Lobachevsky, but never bothered to publish them. Gauss could have also announced that he's gone through Lobachevsky's papers and endorses the results. His reputation capital was such that either claim would have been accepted by the mathematical community. He did neither. He endorsed Lobachevsky's paper as being sufficiently interesting to be translated and studied and checked; perhaps he himself was not sure that it was error-free. He also pushed for Lobachevsky's election into the Hannover academy of sciences - not just for the non-euclidean theory, for for his many other interesting results. Gauss also promoted many other people who did outstanding mathematical work. There wasn't a "consensus" that non-euclidean geometry was kosher until about 1865, by which time all 3 were dead or retired. Likewise when Kantor first announced that the infinite number of real numbers is greater that the infinite number of integers, the "consensus" among working mathematicians was that this was crazy. Likewise when a certain well-known Dutch mathematician mass-mailed many people a few years ago announcing that he's been having sex with the mother goddess, the "consensus" was that he's gone nuts. Finally, if Gauss said that Lobechevsky's paper was more complete and detailed than Gauss's unpublished notes from 1818, it may very well have been true. > > > I have no idea what Bonola wrote, but if he's just repeating the allegation > > Bolyai made about Gauss while suffering from depression and paranoia, they > > have no more truth in them than the Timmy May rants on this mailing list. > > He wrote a classic work on non-euclidean geometry that was quite popular in > 1912 when it was printed. > If the book repeats the bizarre claims made by Bolyai, when he was paranoid, depressed, and outright psychotic - such as the claim that Lobachevsky was not a real person, but a "tentacle" of Gauss created to torture Bolyai - then it's not worth reading. Sadly, some people do go insane. Trying to find the truth in their paranoid rants is a waste of time, just like reading Timmy May's rants is a waste of time. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: David Honig Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 02:54:59 +0800 To: Ray Arachelian Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980109104802.007be1e0@206.40.207.40> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 12:47 PM 1/9/98 -0500, Ray Arachelian wrote: >15)From: SpyKing@thecodex.com >Subject: Re: Deadly Physical Force > If this guy IS >convicted the rules of engagement change forever... SWAT teams will have >to think twice before firing into dwellings... > >FBI sniper ordered to stand trial in Ruby Ridge case The rules for an Assault/Entry are different than the rules for a Sniper, I think. That is the issue: a sniper must know what they are shooting at. ------------------------------------------------------------ David Honig Orbit Technology honig@otc.net Intaanetto Jigyoubu "How do you know you are not being deceived?" ---A Compendium of Analytic TradeCraft Notes, Directorate of Intelligence, CIA From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Trei, Peter" Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 00:14:03 +0800 To: "'cypherpunks@Algebra.COM> Subject: RE: Question on U.S. Postal Service and crypto Message-ID: <6B5344C210C7D011835C0000F80127668B15D4@exna01.securitydynamics.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain My understanding is that a post BOX has to be a design acceptable to the USPS; and that no one else can put things INTO it. This is a pretty narrow restriction; door slots can be used by anyone for anything, and many postboxes either share a support post with a newspaper delivery tube or have an external rack for stuffing newspapers, etc. Back about 20 years ago, some company (FedEx, UPS????) tried to get into the first class mail delivery business, and they dealt with this by putting mail in a plastic bag and hanging it on the doorknob. Where I live (*small* town in New England), FedEx and UPS regularly leave packages unattended; either by the front door, the back door, or in the garage (this is a very low crime area). Around 1979, when the existence of email was just beginning to penetrate (there where only a few hundred thousand people on the Arpanet), there was considerable debate over the legality of email. Since access to Arpanet was theoretically only for people working on Federally funded projects, it was widely thought that it should only be used for project related work, and any personal mail was a misuse of government funds. Columbia University (where I was working at the time) allowed unlimited internal use, but had tinkered their mail client to ignore addresses to off-campus addresses. I think my very first hack involved defeating this restriction. About the same time, I remember that the Postal Carriers Union realized (quite correctly) that email was a threat to their civil service jobs, and came out with a statement to the effect of 'We don't quite understand what this thing is, but the USPS owns it." They wanted to require that email be received only at Post Offices, where it would be printed, stamped, and delivered (by one of their members) along with the rest of the mail. Peter Trei ptrei@securitydynamics.com > ---------- > From: Brian B. Riley[SMTP:brianbr@together.net] > > Maybe they are confusing an electronic mailbox with a snailmail box > ... > the USPS has always contended that they (the USPS) "own" your mailbox > and > use that criterion to prosecute people who drive around putting things > > like circulars etc in mailboxes. Maybe they we on a role thinking that > if > they got into the e-mail business they would 'own' that piece of your > hard drive so to speak. > > > From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 01:09:49 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd) Message-ID: <199801091729.LAA09084@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd) > From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) > Date: Fri, 09 Jan 98 10:24:24 EST > I'm sorry, I don't have the time to look this up. If you're trying to prove > that Gauss was not a nice person, I don't believe it. Anyone who would tell their dying wife, via their son, to wait a moment until he had finished his calculations is not a nice person. > argument you can make is to cite Bolyai's claims that Lobachevsky was not > a real person but a "tentacle" of Gauss, created to persecute Bolyai > (gee, that sounds vaguely familiar...), and you can't find any more dirt > on Gauss, then it proves to me that he was indeed a remarkably nice person. What the hell are you talking about here? I made no such claims at all. Lobashevski was the first person to write in modern history on non-euclidean geometry. Gauss was a contemporary and was quite familiar with Lobashevski's work. He was even asked to review "The Theory of Parallels". Gauss, in an uncharacteristic act, even admitted that Lobachevski's work had progressed farther than his own. > only for the noble-born and wealthy. Gauss did a lot to help other > people in many ways, both as individuals, and in targeting his research > to solve practical problems for good of the humanity. Gauss did a lot of harm as well. He characteristicaly denied works of others and trivialized their contributions while at the same time promoting his own. He was prone to bouts of drunken anger and is known to have physicaly attacked quite a few people while in that state. His usual treatment of contemporaries was based on contempt, not respect. > You also haven't explained how Bolyai could have been Gauss's school friend, > being 25 years younger. Bolyai's father worked with Gauss (as I explained) and his son John also worked with Gauss from the time he (Bolyai) was in school; not Gauss. I am going to refrain from going on with the remainder of your 'points'. You have strayed so far afield, as usual, or misconstrued comments that it has no relevance to what the original discussion was about, which was science advances when people publish and share their work - not when it is held back and unpublished. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 04:18:46 +0800 To: Ryan Anderson Subject: Re: In God We Antitrust, from the Netly News In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 11:01 AM -0800 1/9/98, Ryan Anderson wrote: >On Fri, 9 Jan 1998, Tim May wrote: >> Intel's failed competitors (Cyrix, AMD, Motorola, Sun, SGI/MIPS, >> Intergraph) can be counted on to run crying to Mother Government, crying >> that Intel is too successful. > >Failed? AMD is farfrom a failed competitor. Intel is nowhere near being a >monopoly. In this industry,Intel creates a chip, then AMD,Cyrix, etc take >the published specs on that chip and duplicate the work. They same some Charitably, I'll assume you just don't follow the industry very closely. I don't mean in terms of claims and press announcements, I mean in terms of the "ground truth" of what is real. Intel conservatively is now two full iterations ahead of AMD/Nexgen and/or National/Cyrix. The AMD K6 may not be quite the dog the K5 was, but AMD is woefully unable to *make* the part! (Manufacturing is more essential than most people realize. I could elaborate on this for pages and pages, but this is well-trod ground in, say, the Silicon Investors Forum and other such groups.) There have been reliable reports, from several kinds of sources, that AMD's Fab 25 in Austin is yielding only a handful of workingn (at speed) K6s per 8-inch wafer, versus well over 100 working (at full rated speed, importantly) Pentium IIs (and variamts) devices per 8-inch wafer. Intel is running at a nearly perfect yield rate (most die are functional, a very nice position to be in, and a very hard one to arrange). Intel also has about an order of magnitude more clean room space capable of making the Pentia (and Merced and Gunnison, etc.) than AMD has in Fab 25. ("Fab 25," by AMD's naming convention, means the fab opened in the25th year of business, not their 25th fab.) >effort from having to make opcode decisions, but then they don't get first >crack at the market. AMD has a *Very* good chip in the K6, receiving much >attention as being a serious competitor to Intel's chips. Well, look at their profits, Ryan! Go to Yahoo and look at both their earnings reports over the last, say, 5 years. Also look at their stock patterns. AMD is now trading at $18. Five years ago it was trading at the same price. In fact, it's been a narrow range between about 20 and 30 for most of that time, briefly blipping up to 40 before dropping back to the level it was half a decade ago. In fact, it's where it was in 1983, 15 years ago. (Check the charts.) Meanwhile, Intel has moved from $15 to $72 (today's price) in 5 years, and from something like $2 (or less, as the charts don't go back to '83 for Intel), up a factor of 30 or more times. Market caps are similarly skewed. Intel's market value is $120 billion, AMD's is $2.5 billion, a factor of 50 times lower. (They were within a factor of 3 of each other 15 or so years ago.) The problem AMD faces is not the adequacy of its design, "borrowed" from Intel, but its inability to compete in manufacturing costs. Even as AMD struggles to get yields up, and struggles to invest in the next generation of production equipment, Intel is building several new $2 billion fabs, all equipped with the latest equipment. (Intel continued to book orders for production equipment through the last mini-downturn in '95-'96, ordering equipment from Applied Materials, Lam Research, and so on. Guess what? When AMD and other small fry decided it was time to order, pronto, they found that the Applied Materials, etc. production was already committed to go to Intel! Jerry Sanders, top guy at AMD, cried "foul," but the fact was that Intel's enormous financial and market position strength allowed it to plan ahead and order the equipment and manufacturing space they'd need.) I have no doubt that some companies will design in the K6, and even the Cyrix version. I would if I were them, if only to put some pricing pressure on Intel. But the market share of Intel, at something like 90% (I won't dissect the various segments, but they range from 80% to 95%), and the huge costs to compete in the _next_ generation, really makes it almost impossible for small fry like AMD and Cyrix to do anything significant. Even if their yields were significantly higher than Intel's, which is technically impossible, their lack of capacity limits the inroads they can make. And my point is a larger, longer-range one. I haven't said I expect Justice Department action this year, or even next. But if Intel's Merced displaces workstation chips (the DEC deal, Sun to work on a competitive Solaris for Merced, the H-P/Intel alliance, and several other major deals), and if AMD and Cyrix are unable to make a dent in Intel's market share for PC chips, and if the motherboard integration continues (with Intel supplying motherboards that competitors can't readily match the peformance and pricing of), then I expect a Democratic Justice Department to move on Intel. Of course, those who feel AMD and Cyrix are about to knock Intel out of its present position have the best of all ways to vote their beliefs: by buying AMD (or National/Cyrix) stock at the current low prices. I wish you luck, really. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Declan McCullagh Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 01:25:28 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: In God We Antitrust, from the Netly News Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 11:57:07 -0500 From: Declan McCullagh To: politech@vorlon.mit.edu Subject: FC: In God We Antitrust, from the Netly News ************ http://cgi.pathfinder.com/netly/opinion/0,1042,1678,00.html The Netly News (http://netlynews.com/) January 9, 1998 In God We Antitrust by Declan McCullagh (declan@well.com) Bill Gates likes to portray himself as a businessman hounded by hordes of boorish bureaucrats who resent his success. "It's absolutely clear that our competitors are spending an enormous amount of time and money trying to whip up anti-Microsoft sentiment in Washington, D.C.," says spokesman Mark Murray. "For the past year, Netscape, Sun and other competitors have been crawling all over Washington, D.C., trying to use the government as a weapon against Microsoft -- rather than competing head-to-head in the marketplace." Of course, that's what you'd expect a PR flack to say, whether it's true or not. But maybe, just maybe, Microsoft has a point. A close look at the history of antitrust law reveals that its enforcement has always been political. The demand for antitrust regulations in the first place came from midwestern butchers who wanted to block competition from more efficient meat-packing plants in Chicago. Since then, execution of the 1890 Sherman Act has been highly partisan: Democratic administrations are nearly twice as likely to bring antitrust cases as Republicans. Antitrust regulations are also protectionist: Regulators wield them to protect domestic companies from overseas competitors. If it's politics and not policy that prompted the Justice Department to assail Microsoft this time around, the paper trail may not become public until well into the next century. For now, though, we can look at antitrust history instead: ITT and Nixon: President Richard Nixon intervened in an antitrust action against International Telephone & Telegraph in 1971 in exchange for a bribe -- a hefty contribution to the 1972 Republican convention. "I don't know whether ITT is bad, good or indifferent," he said on April 19, 1971, White House tapes reveal. "But there is not going to be any more antitrust actions as long as I am in this chair... goddamn it, we're going to stop it." [...snip...] -------------------------------------------------------------------------- POLITECH -- the moderated mailing list of politics and technology To subscribe: send a message to majordomo@vorlon.mit.edu with this text: subscribe politech More information is at http://www.well.com/~declan/politech/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Ray Arachelian Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 01:51:07 +0800 To: cypherpunks MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain 15)From: SpyKing@thecodex.com Subject: Re: Deadly Physical Force This thread might be getting tired but I ran across something that is applicable. I make no judgement on who is right or wrong. I was not there and only those who were know the truth. I'm posting this to show that despite being acquitted in one court the shooter in this case is being charged and brought to trial in another court on similiar charges. Some will scream double jeapordy and others will say justice is prevailing. The jury will have to decide... but I'll say one thing... If this guy IS convicted the rules of engagement change forever... SWAT teams will have to think twice before firing into dwellings... FBI sniper ordered to stand trial in Ruby Ridge case BONNERS FERRY, Idaho (Reuters) - An FBI sharpshooter has been ordered to stand trial on charges of involuntary manslaughter over the 1992 standoff at Ruby Ridge, Idaho, in which three people died, prosecutors said Wednesday. Idaho Magistrate Quentin Harden ruled there was enough evidence to allow the sharpshooter, Lon Horiuchi, to face trial on charges he acted with negligence when he fired a shot that killed the wife of white separatist Randy Weaver at his cabin. The standoff near Weaver's cabin turned into a rallying cry for extreme right-wingers who condemned what they saw as federal government excesses and held up Weaver as a hero. Boundary County prosecutor Denise Woodbury last August charged Horiuchi and Weaver's friend Kevin Harris with the deaths of two people killed in the standoff. The charges against Harris were later dismissed on the grounds that he had already been acquitted of those charges in federal court. In filing charges against Horiuchi, Woodbury accused the sharpshooter of using a gun in a reckless manner by firing through the front door of Weaver's house without first determining whether anyone other than his intended target was behind the door. Horiuchi could face up to 10 years in prison if convicted. The standoff began Aug. 21, 1992, when U.S. Marshals approached Weaver's cabin to arrest him for failing to appear in court on gun charges. U.S. Marshal William Degan and Weaver's 14-year-old son Sammy were killed in a gun battle near the cabin, and the Federal Bureau of Investigation was called in later that day. The next day, Horiuchi wounded Weaver and Harris and killed Vicki Weaver. Weaver and Harris surrendered 10 days later and were acquitted of murder charges in the killing of Degan in a 1993 federal trial. Weaver said in a telephone interview from his home in Montana that he was pleased by Harden's ruling. ``It's taken a long time, but sometimes the wheels of justice grind slowly. We are looking to see some justice in all of this,'' Weaver said. ``To be honest I hope that he (Horiuchi) eventually sees that he is just one of two scapegoats and that eventually he will tell the whole truth.'' Horiuchi's lawyers were due to appear next Monday before a federal judge in Boise to ask that the case against the FBI sniper be moved to federal court. Horiuchi was scheduled to be arraigned Friday, Feb. 13, in Idaho district court in Boundary County, but that could change if his case is remanded to federal court. Neither Horiuchi's lawyers nor Woodbury were immediately available for comment on Harden's ruling. 16)From: SpyKing@thecodex.com Subject: Germany to restore bugging Thursday January 8, 1:58 PM GMT Germany to restore bugging banned since Nazi-era BONN, Jan 8 (Reuters) - German political leaders agreed on Thursday to allow police to bug apartments of suspected criminals, restoring a crime-fighting tool banned since abuses by the secret police in the Nazi era. Leaders from Chancellor Helmut Kohl's centre-right coalition and the opposition Social Democrats (SPD) said they had reached a deal allowing police to plant microphones in private homes of suspected criminals for the first time since 1945. Both houses of parliament are now expected to quickly pass the long-debated measure, which police have argued was needed to better fight organised crime and bring the country in line with other nations that allow electronic surveillance. Germany, which reacted to the Gestapo's abuses with some of the Western world's most extensive civil liberties laws, has long resisted any relaxation in constitutional protections that have kept police out of private homes. Interior Minister Manfred Kanther said the agreement would give police the necessary tool to fight organised crime. "This is a decisive step towards more effectively fighting crime," Kanther said. "We can now keep surveillance on suspected gangster apartments and we will be able to better fight money laundering." The opposition SPD, which controls the upper house of parliament, the Bundesrat, said it would support the measure after the government agreed to partial exemptions for some professional groups such as priests, attorneys and journalists. Police will be required to obtain advance court permission for any surveillance. Previously, police were only given rare exemptions to the constitutional law protecting the private home. They were allowed to use listening devices or electronic surveillance only with court permission if there was concrete evidence that a serious crime was about to take place. Now authorities will have the power to use eavesdropping methods far more extensively and will also for the first time be able to bug apartments after a crime has been committed to obtain evidence. Germany's post-war constitution barred police from electronic surveillance, telephone taps and intercepting mail. The bans on telephone taps and mail intercepts were relaxed in the 1970s amid a wave of left-wing guerrilla attacks. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: David Honig Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 05:42:24 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Germany not so worried about Gestapo wiretaps now Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980109131833.007b0bd0@206.40.207.40> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain There are several examples of sacrificing liberty for security in a G7 country in the article below. Also the justification of "getting in line with other countries" is used for allowing civilian SIGINT practices previously banned. Thursday January 8 11:32 AM EST Germany to Restore Surveillance BONN, Germany (Reuters) - German political leaders agreed Thursday to allow police to bug apartments of suspected criminals, restoring a crime-fighting tool banned since abuses by the secret police in the Nazi era. Leaders from Chancellor Helmut Kohl's center-right coalition and the opposition Social Democrats (SPD) said they had reached a deal allowing police to plant microphones in private homes of suspected criminals for the first time since 1945. Both houses of parliament are now expected to quickly pass the long-debated measure, which police have argued was needed to better fight organized crime and bring the country in line with other nations that allow electronic surveillance. Germany, which reacted to the Gestapo's abuses with some of the Western world's most extensive civil liberties laws, has long resisted any relaxation in constitutional protections that have kept police out of private homes. Interior Minister Manfred Kanther said the agreement would give police the necessary tool to fight organized crime. "This is a decisive step toward more effectively fighting crime," Kanther said. "We can now keep surveillance on suspected gangster apartments and we will be able to better fight money laundering." The opposition SPD, which controls the upper house of parliament, the Bundesrat, said it would support the measure after the government agreed to partial exemptions for some professional groups such as priests, attorneys and journalists. Police will be required to obtain advance court permission for any surveillance. Previously, police were only given rare exemptions to the constitutional law protecting the private home. They were allowed to use listening devices or electronic surveillance only with court permission if there was concrete evidence that a serious crime was about to take place. Now authorities will have the power to use eavesdropping methods far more extensively and will also for the first time be able to bug apartments after a crime has been committed to obtain evidence. Germany's post-war constitution barred police from electronic surveillance, telephone taps and intercepting mail. The bans on telephone taps and mail intercepts were relaxed in the 1970s amid a wave of left-wing guerrilla attacks. ------------------------------------------------------------ David Honig Orbit Technology honig@otc.net Intaanetto Jigyoubu "How do you know you are not being deceived?" ---A Compendium of Analytic TradeCraft Notes, Directorate of Intelligence, CIA From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Ryan Anderson Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 03:15:48 +0800 To: Tim May Subject: Re: In God We Antitrust, from the Netly News In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Fri, 9 Jan 1998, Tim May wrote: > The next such battle will be about Intel, which, if anything, has even more > of a commanding presence in the market than MS has. Besides > "investigations" (a DC codeword meaning: "donate money to the ruling > party"), the antitrust buzz is that the Intel-DEC deal may be scotched. > > Intel's failed competitors (Cyrix, AMD, Motorola, Sun, SGI/MIPS, > Intergraph) can be counted on to run crying to Mother Government, crying > that Intel is too successful. Failed? AMD is farfrom a failed competitor. Intel is nowhere near being a monopoly. In this industry,Intel creates a chip, then AMD,Cyrix, etc take the published specs on that chip and duplicate the work. They same some effort from having to make opcode decisions, but then they don't get first crack at the market. AMD has a *Very* good chip in the K6, receiving much attention as being a serious competitor to Intel's chips. Intel is in no way nearly as hated as Microsoft. Many people hate MS products irrationally, some of those also hate the 80x86line of chips. The number hating the chips is muhc lower than the number hating MS. Maybe because Intel tends to have more reliable produts? Who knows. Intel is *not* in any danger of being a target for an antitrust suit in the near futur, in truth they don't even have the signs going for them. (No dumping of products, no tying of products, though Slot-1 might cqualify as this, I doubt it.) Even the industry mags point out this difference between the two. It's a lot easier to develop competing hardware than a competing OS. Ryan Anderson - Alpha Geek PGP fp: 7E 8E C6 54 96 AC D9 57 E4 F8 AE 9C 10 7E 78 C9 print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 06:15:26 +0800 To: David Honig Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 1:18 PM -0800 1/9/98, David Honig wrote: >There are several examples of sacrificing liberty for >security in a G7 country in the article below. >Also the justification of "getting in line with other countries" >is used for allowing civilian SIGINT practices previously banned. >Germany, which reacted to the Gestapo's abuses with some of the Western >world's most extensive civil >liberties laws, has long resisted any relaxation in constitutional >protections that have kept police out of >private homes. ... I suspect this is only a cosmetic change, in terms of realpolitik. The BND and other intelligence/law enforcement agencies have very probably been using the available SIGINT and COMINT tools....maybe just not using the captured data in courtrooms. (As with the U.S., where illegal wiretaps and bugs are used for ancillary purposes, even if not sanctioned by the courts.) But this still signals a move toward a '1984' situation, with Germany likely now to relax some of its objections to OECD plans for crypto restrictions (recall that Germany was opposed to some of the key escrow plans). And now that Japan has fallen into line (e.g., by banning the export of the RSA chip so touted by Bidzos and NTT), the OECD/New World Order is set to make some moves in '98. (Things have been quiet on the crypto legislation/international agreements front, from a news point of view, but we can safely assume that all of these bad things are moving along behind the scenes, and will once again become cause celebres.) --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Robert Hettinga Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 03:40:01 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: Microsoft Windows98 - Make your own decision. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain --- begin forwarded text X-Sender: jnoble@pop.dgsys.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 13:09:13 -0400 Reply-To: Law & Policy of Computer Communications Sender: Law & Policy of Computer Communications From: John Noble Subject: Re: Microsoft Windows98 - Make your own decision. To: CYBERIA-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM At 10:22 AM -0600 1/9/98, Virginia Metze wrote: >Those are the Fortune 500 figures which they identify as total revenues and >which I take to mean gross. Incidentally, Microsoft is 172, IBM #6. >Destruction of Microsoft's Word revenues, which accounts for a lot of their >profit, is what >would really seriously damage them, and note the push of IBM into the >desktop applications market... > >And IBM is going to be way out in front of everyone no matter how it >is measured. > I share Virginia's sentiment about MS-bashing, but if I were going to measure market power I'd look at profit margins. These figures are provided by Hoovers Stockscreener http://www.stockscreener.com which is a lot of fun to play with. Market Value (mils.): General Electric Company 243000.0 The Coca-Cola Company 164792.0 Microsoft Corporation 157473.0 Exxon Corporation 146881.0 Nippon Telegraph and Telephone 135252.0 Merck 127673.0 Intel 121575.0 Philip Morris Companies Inc. 112867.0 Royal Dutch Petroleum Company 112039.0 The Procter & Gamble Company 108281.0 Toyota Motor Corporation 105326.0 IBM 102912.0 Revenues (mils) (for mkt caps over 100 bil): Exxon Corporation 119507.0 Toyota Motor Corporation 98740.6 General Electric Company 86658.0 Royal Dutch Petroleum Company 85784.7 IBM 77928.0 Philip Morris Companies Inc. 71512.0 Nippon T & T 71262.4 AT&T Corp. 52839.0 The Procter & Gamble Company 36216.0 Intel Corporation 25003.0 Merck & Co., Inc 22810.9 The Coca-Cola Company 18610.0 Microsoft Corporation 12193.0 Pfizer Inc 12169.0 PROFIT MARGIN (for mkt caps over 100 bil.): Microsoft Corporation 30.4% Intel Corporation 24.7% Merck & Co., Inc. 19.6% The Coca-Cola Company 18.8% Pfizer Inc 17.1% AT&T Corp. 11.0% The Procter & Gamble Company 9.5% General Electric Company 9.3% Philip Morris Companies Inc. 9.1% IBM 7.1% Royal Dutch Petroleum Company 6.9% Exxon Corporation 6.4% Toyota Motor Corporation 3.2% Nippon T & T 2.9% John Noble --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/ Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 04:21:44 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: In God We Antitrust, from the Netly News (fwd) Message-ID: <199801092045.OAA10031@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 12:11:44 -0800 > From: Tim May > Subject: Re: In God We Antitrust, from the Netly News > There have been reliable reports, from several kinds of sources, that AMD's > Fab 25 in Austin is yielding only a handful of workingn (at speed) K6s per > 8-inch wafer, versus well over 100 working (at full rated speed, > importantly) Pentium IIs (and variamts) devices per 8-inch wafer. Intel is > running at a nearly perfect yield rate (most die are functional, a very > nice position to be in, and a very hard one to arrange). > Intel also has about an order of magnitude more clean room space capable of > making the Pentia (and Merced and Gunnison, etc.) than AMD has in Fab 25. >From my contacts at AMD and personal experience working on the Semiconductor Technology program through Austin Community College 2 years ago I would have to agree with these claims. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "James A. Donald" Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 07:04:32 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Has anyone exported Crypto Kong yet? Message-ID: <199801092257.OAA21085@proxy3.ba.best.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -- It seems likely that the current release candidate http://www.jim.com/jamesd/Kong is going to be the actual release 1.0. Being a good respectable law abiding American resident alien I intend to set up two buttons, one that you click on if you are are a US or canadian citizen, and one that you click on if you are not. It would be nice if the non citizen link led somewhere. --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG 7kglYb5GYi3VEyvppMeDd0zlnuKkh/uYzEXVxIl1 4uDBDw9n+6DVIw9foYasgSkcQcPEt7kui6qxpfkfc --------------------------------------------------------------------- We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this right, not from the arbitrary power of the state. http://www.jim.com/jamesd/ From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Vipul Ved Prakash Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 21:38:34 +0800 To: mikhaelf@mindspring.com Subject: Re: Freedom Forum report on the State of the First Amendment In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980101170044.0dff4600@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <199801091545.PAA01120@fountainhead.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Mikhael Frieden wrote: > >You clearly have no comprehension of the principles of the free market > >and the rights of businesses and individual to hire and fire whoever the > >fuck they like for any reason whatsoever. I am no racist, but I defend > >your right to be as racist as you see fit. > You are obviously an evil person if you do so against the self > annointed, even though they self identify themselves as 30% racist. This reminds me of the self-righteous political leaders of India who enforced 47% reservations for Schedule Cast/Tribe groups in all government subsidized institutions couple of years back. And, it all starts with the same fallacious interpretation of "equal opportunity". Whatever your political philosophy might be you won't like to see a doctor who is likely to kill you with an overdose of codeine. Or would you? Best, Vipul -- "So Beck was the hacker and Oda was the backer. The oldest and most troublesome relationship in the technological world." -- "Diamond Age", Neal Stephenson. ================================================================== Vipul Ved Prakash | - Electronic Security & Crypto mail@vipul.net | - Web Objects 91 11 2233328 | - PERL Development 198 Madhuban IP Extension | - Linux & Open Systems Delhi, INDIA 110 092 | - Networked Virtual Spaces From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 23:28:42 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Cute Message-ID: <199801091520.QAA29876@basement.replay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Tim May is cute and cuddly! (_) _____ (_) /O O\ Timmy C[uddly] May ! I ! ! \___/ ! \_____/ From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Paul Bradley Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 03:39:17 +0800 To: Anonymous Subject: Re: cypherpunks and guns In-Reply-To: <199801081855.TAA05464@basement.replay.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > Tim May doesn't know anything about Onion Routers, Crowds, or any of > the other new privacy technologies like Adam Back's prototype Eternity > service. Judging Tim May in this way seems rather unfair as I have no reason to believe you know any of this to be true, although your anonymity prevents me from knowing either way. > In truth, he has lost all interest in cryptography and now spends > his time talking about guns and making racist comments. True, Tim spends little time posting about crypto now, but maybe he feels he has said what he wants to, and moved on, maybe he`ll post about crypto again in the future, maybe not. If you don`t like his writing killfile him, or use the delete key, if you don`t like the content on the list now, write something yourself, start a thread you find interesting, do something to change the situation rather than bemoaning the state of the list. > He wonders why the cypherpunks list no longer attracts quality > cryptographic ideas. He need look no farther than the nearest mirror. People who have something to say about crypto will post here, look at the number of good cryptographers on the list and tell me where else you will find such an accumulation of talented thinkers and writers. Cypherpunks was never intended to be a pure crypto list anyway (as I see it), more of an applied crypto list discussing applications of technology as a defence of personal freedom, related issues will inevitably be discussed and that includes guns and "anti-discrimination" laws. If you don`t like the list, change it or leave, sci.crypt and sci.crypt.research are excellent groups on a more pure cryptography topic than cpunx, apart from the massive number of "where do I get PGP for my PC" questions on sci.crypt (sci.crypt.research is moderated and much lower traffic). > His violent rants and his off-topic, offensive posts have done more than > anything to drive good people off the list. "good people" as you see them presumably have the level of technical competence required to set up procmail, and put those who they see as "ranting" in their killfile. > The single best thing that could happen to the cypherpunks list (and the > cypherpunks movement, for that matter) would be for Tim May to leave the > list and disassociate himself from the cypherpunks. Oh worthy anonymous one, please enlighten us with your next pronouncement on the best thing we can do for the movement. > He would be much more comfortable joining the KKK and the local > militia. How do you know Tim isn`t already a member of his local militia? Why do you feel Tims predisposition towards active methods of preserving his freedom rule out his participation in this group? > After him, Paul Bradley, William Geiger and Dimitri Vulis can follow. Never let it be said that I post in my own defence against a silly flamebait message such as this, but I cannot see the writers problem with ignoring me if he doesn`t like what I post. > This will leave fine thinkers with good hearts like Adam Back, Bill > Stewart, Wei Dai and others, people who still believe that cryptography > can make a strong contribution to our freedom. I still believe cryptography can make a contribution to freedom, but I am gradually persuaded more and more to the belief that other means of defence may become necessary as a last resort, and I believe in being prepared for all possible outcomes. Datacomms Technologies data security Paul Bradley, Paul@fatmans.demon.co.uk Paul@crypto.uk.eu.org, Paul@cryptography.uk.eu.org Http://www.cryptography.home.ml.org/ Email for PGP public key, ID: FC76DA85 "Don`t forget to mount a scratch monkey" From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Adam Tuliper" Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 06:21:24 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: SSL DLL's? Message-ID: <199801092207.OAA09121@toad.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Anyone know if there is a SSL winsock type control out there and what the name of it is? Thanks,... Adam From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Vipul Ved Prakash Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 21:35:42 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com (Cypherpunks) Subject: oracle on feds (fwd) Message-ID: <199801091711.RAA01466@fountainhead.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Selected-By: David Bremner The Internet Oracle has pondered your question deeply. Your question was: > DearOralemostwisepleasetellme... > > Look, I'm sorry to rush this, but the IRS, BATF, IRS, CIA, INS, IMF and > CFR agents (not to mention the black helicopters) are at my front door. > What should I do? And in response, thus spake the Oracle: ENTERTAINING FEDERAL AGENTS with MARTHA STEWART Hello, I'm Martha Stewart, welcome to my answer. Our good friend The Internet Oracle is not able to answer your question right now, and so he has asked me to try to help. Let's take a look at your situation, shall we? Entertaining large groups of Federal agents is always a bit of a challenge, especially when we're pressed for time. Of course, it's always best to be prepared for visitors. You should have a neatly trimmed and freshly painted entryway, with a large Welcome mat and perhaps some cut flowers. A wooden rocking chair on the porch adds a homey touch of camouflage. When Federal agents are expected, I like to take a little time beforehand and knit a large Plywood Cozy for each window to catch some of the broken glass. Don't forget to save the shards! They can be dyed later and arranged into a stunning stained glass mosaic. For autumn, have plenty of hot mulled cider ready. Not only is it healthy and aromatic, it's better than water for extinguishing fires! If your electricity is sabotaged, use your supply of flares in tasteful candle holders. Finally, don't be afraid to think creatively. Although many people think of large-caliber bullets as merely a nuisance, they can be recovered and used as decorative accessories and paper weights, or hammered into distinctive buttons. With a little brown paint, a smoke grenade can also be fashioned into a quaint pineapple arrangement! As always, remember to be courteous and kind, and just relax and be yourself. It takes only a small extra effort to be remembered for your own unique style of entertaining. Enjoy! You owe the Oracle a throw rug woven from yellow "Police Line" tape. -- "So Beck was the hacker and Oda was the backer. The oldest and most troublesome relationship in the technological world." -- "Diamond Age", Neal Stephenson. ================================================================== Vipul Ved Prakash | - Electronic Security & Crypto mail@vipul.net | - Web Objects 91 11 2233328 | - PERL Development 198 Madhuban IP Extension | - Linux & Open Systems Delhi, INDIA 110 092 | - Networked Virtual Spaces From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jon Galt Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 06:50:16 +0800 To: Anonymous Subject: Re: your mail In-Reply-To: <0af1f50d709c70d6ee98863386f81e59@anon.efga.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Mon, 22 Dec 1997, Anonymous wrote: > >> I also wouldn't trust Lance Cottrell. He's selling privacy for the > >$$, not > >> for the ideology; he'll bend over the moment he thinks there's more > >$$ in > >> bending over, which is usually the case. > >What is wrong selling privacy for money? > > It usually involves making it shitty. Oh yeah, that's the way free enterprise works... if you make your product shitty, your customers will pay more for it! Hey maybe if I do a crappy job, my employer will pay me more! ______________________________________________________________________ Jon Galt e-mail: jongalt@pinn.net website: http://www.pinn.net/~jongalt/ PGP public key available on my website. Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner. ______________________________________________________________________ From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Anonymous Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 07:52:43 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Microsoft's Future 2/2 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Chances are it's a safe bet. While Microsoft concedes that Windows NT servers won't replace the world's supply of mainframe computers anytime soon, Jeffrey S. Raikes, Microsoft's group vice-president for sales and marketing, predicts that in the next few years, NT could unseat IBM's stalwart AS/400 minicomputer--a $3.4 billion annual business. By selling NT, Office 97, and a suite of networking software called BackOffice, Raikes' goal is to increase Microsoft's average annual revenues per corporate computer user from less than $150 today to more than $200 in the next two years. Analysts like what they see. They predict the software maker will sell $5 billion worth of NT and BackOffice by 2000, double what's expected this fiscal year. ''Today, we see Microsoft software at the heart of almost every desktop,'' says analyst Neil Herman of Salomon Smith Barney. ''In 10 years, we'll see Microsoft software at the heart of 90% of the servers out there, too.'' One company already feeling the heat is Netscape. On Jan. 5, the Silicon Valley highflier announced that its quarterly sales would be $125 million to $130 million--well below the $165 million analysts had expected. Worse, it will report its first loss in nine quarters. The reason: Netscape's server and browser sales are down because of stiff competition from Microsoft and IBM (page 69). ''Microsoft is the primary cause of Netscape's problems,'' says analyst Bruce D. Smith of Merrill Lynch & Co. That doesn't mean Microsoft will own enterprise. The operating system accounts for just 20% of the installed base of computer servers. And for the rest of that business Microsoft faces a revitalized IBM that is well entrenched in Corporate America and becoming a formidable competitor on the Net. After stumbling in the early '90s, IBM has made a remarkable comeback by using PC technology to sell mainframe computers costing less than one-tenth what customers paid in the late 1980s. That has kept many major customers true blue. Database giant Oracle also has an incredibly loyal following. It has 39% of that sector, vs. less than 4% for Microsoft's SQL Server. Microsoft's database software is still seen as not powerful enough to handle the really big jobs at giant corporations. ''Microsoft has given their database away, but it hasn't helped--because their database isn't any good,'' says Oracle's Ellison. And then there's Java. Sun Microsystems' much hyped programming language offers the prospect of an alternative to Windows, since applications written in it can run on any operating system. So far, Microsoft has convinced hundreds of corporate customers that they can save money by running even their biggest jobs on NT. But many companies still have millions invested in mainframes, and moving everything to Windows could take years. Java offers an alternative. This software--used to write other programs--runs on a variety of computer architectures. That helps it to act as a digital glue for creating programs that allow companies to use existing software, such as mainframe programs, while still tapping into new Internet businesses. Early this year, Java will get better yet. Improved security and performance could make it more appealing to use on a slew of devices. ''Between Java cards and Java rings and Java phones and Java set-top boxes and Java everything else, we're going to destroy them on unit volume,'' predicts Sun CEO Scott G. McNealy. For all this, analysts don't see Java replacing Windows anytime soon. The 700,000 software developers using Java pales next to the 4.5 million that Windows claims. Even John F. Andrews, chief information officer for transportation giant CSX Corp. and a huge Java fan, says: ''Java's a punch, but it's not a knockout.'' That's because Microsoft is well protected. Many corporations have already standardized on Windows and its desktop applications. So now, they're interested in buying software from Microsoft that can help tie their computer systems together more simply and run their large databases, accounting systems, and manufacturing operations. ''The plan ultimately is to run everything on one platform. That's the carrot out there,'' says Dean Halley, an information-systems executive at Credit Suisse First Boston Corp. THE INTERNET When it comes to new markets, none is as vast and potentially lucrative as the Internet. Analysts predict that Net revenues from software and commerce will reach dizzying heights--as much as $100 billion by 2000. And no single company is investing so much or so broadly--or holds as many of the pieces--as Microsoft. In the two years since it vowed to become a leader in cyberspace, Microsoft has been true to its word. The most visible proof is Internet Explorer. Since releasing the first version of IE a little more than two years ago, Microsoft has jetted from zero to 40% of the market. Moreover, if the software maker's plans to weave the browser into Windows 98 go unhampered by the Justice Dept., analysts expect IE to shoot past market leader Netscape to become No.1 this year. Microsoft's browser has one huge draw: It's free. Cash-rich Microsoft can afford such tactics, while scrappy rivals such as Netscape have to charge a few dollars. And that can make a difference. Internet service provider Concentric Network Corp., for example, switched from Netscape's browser to IE over price. ''We're operating on slim margins, so it matters,'' says Vice-President James Isaacs. That has sent Netscape looking for more lucrative server business. ''If I had to depend on the browser for profits, I'd be flat-ass broke,'' says Netscape CEO James L. Barksdale. In the face of a loss for the quarter, Netscape may be forced to match Microsoft's giveaway strategy. Internet Explorer is just the tip of the iceberg. Across the board, Microsoft is making the Net its No.1 priority. ''It's hard to think of much that we're doing that isn't influenced by the Internet,'' says Gates. ''All of our software is very tied up in helping people use the Internet in a better way.'' That includes deep-pocketed corporate customers. As they refashion their businesses around the Internet, Microsoft is out to make sure that Windows NT will be the software of choice. In the past few months, Microsoft has updated all of its corporate software to boost the latest Internet features. BackOffice, for example, now includes Commerce Server, specialized software that companies such as Barnes & Noble Inc. and Dell Computer Corp. use to run their online sales operations. As it does in the browser market, Microsoft gives away much of its basic Internet server software. It packages Internet programs, such as Site Server for managing Web sites, with BackOffice at no additional cost. And each copy of NT includes Internet Information Server, a basic Web-server program. That has helped catapult Microsoft's share of Web and corporate intranet servers to 55%, with all rival Unix makers combined at No.2, with a 36% share. The Net initiatives that draw the most attention, though, are Microsoft's attempts at building new Web-style businesses. It has set up 16 Web sites for everything from online investing to travel reservations to home buying. Some of these Web sites are already leaders in their categories. Microsoft's Expedia is in a dead heat with Preview Travel and Travelocity for the top spot in online travel, with more than $2 million in bookings a week. CarPoint has quickly become a popular spot for car buyers. This year, CarPoint is expected to begin offering insurance and financing services that will make it a one-stop shop for auto needs. Forrester Research Inc. predicts that CarPoint will rack up sales of $10 million a month within a couple of years. MSNBC, Microsoft's news venture with NBC, ranks third--after Softbank's news site ZDNet, and Walt Disney's site--in the most recent PC Meter Survey of Web-site viewership in the news, information, and entertainment category. Microsoft plans to launch a couple of new sites this year. One, code-named Boardwalk, will let home buyers shop for real estate and mortgages. The other is an online bill-paying service that will be operated as a joint venture with First Data Corp. ''There will be three or four major networks on the Internet, and we expect to be one of them,'' says Jeff Sanderson, general manager for Microsoft Network, the software giant's online service. By some measures, Microsoft is already there. PC Meter rates Microsoft's 16 Web sites combined as No.4 in its monthly survey--behind only America Online, Yahoo!, and Netscape. LOCAL UPRISING. The prospect of Microsoft entering everything from travel to car sales has put competitors on alert. Indeed, even a rumor of Microsoft's imminent arrival can jolt formerly complacent industries into action. Take newspaper publishers. Last year, when Microsoft announced it would launch Sidewalk, a series of Web sites offering local-entertainment listings, newspaper publishers geared up to protect their $24 billion in annual local advertising. Some 136 newspapers signed up with Zip2 Corp., a Mountain View (Calif.) supplier of online publishing technology that helps publishers create electronic versions of their newspapers. ''Microsoft tries to scare people into giving up, but it's just not working,'' says Zip2 CEO Rich Sorkin, who claims that his combined newspaper sites are racking up 8 million viewers a month--nearly triple the traffic Microsoft's 10 Sidewalk sites are drawing. So are critics' fears founded? Gates claims Microsoft has no grand plan to control the Net. What's more, not all of his Web ventures have been hits. Microsoft Network, the company's online service, has failed to live up to its early hype. LONG-TERM VIEW. While some of these new business are starting to pay off, Microsoft views the estimated $250 million a year it spends on Web sites as an investment in the future. ''Anybody involved in this is projecting out 5 to 10 years and asking what can they start to build now that can become more valuable as the Internet becomes more mainstream,'' says Gates. For that reason, Microsoft's biggest Web opportunity may lie in doing what it does best--creating software for others to use and build upon. It has begun selling its online travel software to airlines, including Northwest Airlines Corp. and Continental Airlines Inc. And American Express Co. is selling travel services to corporations based on Microsoft software called Microsoft Travel Technologies. ''They paid us quite a bit for that,'' says Gates. The potential looks huge: American Express Interactive is being rolled out in 20 large corporations, including Monsanto and Chrysler. An additional 180 companies will be using it by the end of 1998. All told, these companies represent more than $5 billion in yearly travel purchases, according to Microsoft's Richard Barton, general manager of Expedia. Still, it is unlikely that Microsoft will dominate the Web the way it has PC software. For one, it must compete against the giants in their fields, be they bankers, stock brokerages, real estate empires, auto makers, or travel agents. And the Web is still a work in progress, with new sites and opportunities popping up every day. Even with Windows as a starting point for most computer users, ''everything else is just a click away,'' says Bill Bass, a new-media analyst for Forrester Research. For his part, Gates doesn't show any willingness to let up to placate his critics or government investigators. And there's no sign in Redmond of complacency. In fact, Gates sees threats all around--even from operating systems that few people have ever heard of and Web sites that haven't been created yet. The key for Microsoft, he says, is satisfying customers, innovating, and keeping prices low. ''If we don't do all of these things,'' says its 43-year-old chairman, ''Microsoft will be replaced.'' It's that sort of paranoia that has enabled Mircosoft to survive and thrive. It's possible, of course, that competitors will blunt his new attack in at least some areas. But unless the government succeeds in a full-scale antitrust assault, Bill Gates and Microsoft are destined to become a still more potent force in the world's most important industry. By Steve Hamm in Redmond, Wash., with Amy Cortese in New York and Susan B. Garland in Washington, D.C. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Anonymous Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 07:57:39 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Microsoft's Future Message-ID: <8bd5d769a398c8464c62c1ebd07d42ed@anon.efga.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain MICROSOFT'S FUTURE A band of powerful foes is determined to slow the Gates juggernaut, but Microsoft's reach already extends further than you may think In December, Samuel Goodhope stood hunched over an Austin conference-room table eyeing a dismembered personal computer. As a special assistant in the Texas Attorney General's office and point man in its antitrust investigation into Microsoft Corp., he needed a keen understanding of a PC's innards. So a technician painstakingly explained how each of the components is supplied by a different company, but they must all work with the critical Windows operating system made by a single corporation, Microsoft. That's when it hit him: Microsoft owns a key monopoly in the Digital Age, and the software maker is a lot like the Borg. These fictional Star Trek characters--part flesh, part machine--prowl the universe conquering other races. ''Resistance is futile,'' says Goodhope in a mechanical, Borg-like voice. ''You will be assimilated.'' Microsoft and its hypercompetitive chairman, William H. Gates III, are no science-fiction fantasy. And the Texas Attorney General's office fully intends to resist. Indeed, Goodhope predicts that two dozen states will soon join his effort--amassing some 100 attorneys for a Big Tobacco-style courtroom battle that he says could reshape the computing landscape. ''We're talking about what the high-tech world is going to look like in five years,'' says Goodhope. ''Will the Information Superhighway become the Bill Gates toll road?'' Microphobia, a national pastime in recent years, is reaching a new frenzy. Since October, the most influential company in the $700 billion U.S. computer industry has been under siege from all quarters. Texas and eight other states have launched investigations into whether the software giant is using anticompetitive tactics. Consumer advocate Ralph Nader is calling for a breakup of the company. The European Commission is mulling a probe of its own. And Microsoft is embroiled in a knock-down, drag-out fight with the Justice Dept. over whether it is violating a 1995 consent decree by requiring PC makers to ship its Internet browser with Windows 95. ''This kind of product-forcing is an abuse of monopoly power--and we will seek to put an end to it,'' vows Joel I. Klein, Assistant Attorney General for the Antitrust Div. For his part, Gates denies violating any laws and says the earlier consent decree with Justice allows Microsoft to enhance Windows. Browsing, he says, is a natural addition to an operating system. ''What we're doing is quite straightforward and quite pro-customer,'' Gates says. ''In no way are we eliminating choice.'' He also bristles at the notion that Microsoft wants to turn the Internet into its personal toll road. ''We'll get our revenue from selling great software.'' Microsoft's dispute with the Justice Dept. is no mere joust over the mechanics of linking a Web browser to the ubiquitous Windows 95. The passions aroused in the government and industry alike reflect the realization that this is a bruising fight over which companies will dominate the Internet and move into new markets from there. The prize is huge. The Net not only opens the possibility of a vast new marketplace for everything from banking to buying cars, but it is also the electronic gateway into homes and--perhaps more important--into corporations. Owning the browser and Internet server software could well become as key to the new age of Net computing as Windows is to PCs. If Gates extends his PC hegemony to these new realms, the little software company he co-founded in 1975 could come to dominate the nexus of computing and communications well into the 21st century. ''The question is, are we looking forward to the Information Age, or will it be the Microsoft Age?'' asks Lawrence J. Ellison, chairman of database maker Oracle Corp. ''It's kind of like Microsoft vs. mankind--and mankind is the underdog.'' A BROADER CASE? Hyperbole aside, Microsoft wants to move into every business where software matters--from the chilled rooms of mainframe computing to the household appliances that are being computerized. Gates wants to expand into the corporate-enterprise market--from databases to E-mail. And he wants to play in consumer electronics--from TV set-top boxes to car navigation systems. Rivals and critics hope the Justice Dept. can slow down Microsoft's pace. The current dispute, which centers on Windows 95, is likely to have little effect on Microsoft. But if Justic broadens its suit to cover the upcoming Windows 98--something it has hinted it might do--or attacks Windows NT as well, Microsoft would suffer a devastating blow. ''Unless we're allowed to enhance Windows, I don't know how to do my job,'' says Gates. It would also set an ominous precedent that cuts to the heart of the software maker's strategy of melding Internet capabilities into all of its products--from PC software to new consumer-electronics offerings to corporate enterprise programs. It could get worse for Gates. No matter how the current dispute is resolved, Klein and his team could bring a broader antitrust case. Caswell O. Hobbs, a Washington (D.C.) antitrust attorney with Morgan, Lewis & Bockius, says the current consent violation case is just ''an opening salvo. I'm sure it's not the last of the proceedings.'' In its thinking on Microsoft, Justice is relying on a novel theory in antitrust law. It's not only about monopoly pricing power, as in the days of the Robber Barons. Information technology, after all, is an industry in which prices fall. Rather, Justice is concerned that Microsoft's operating system is so dominant that it is the de facto standard, the very springboard for all sorts of new applications software. By controlling the standard, Justice fears, Microsoft stifles innovation. That means competing technologies, even if they're better, stand little chance, making it tough for startups to bring whizzy new inventions to market. ''They're hell-bent on dominating the entire information infrastructure of the world,'' says attorney Gary Reback, who represents rival Netscape Communications Corp., ''and it scares the daylights out of me.'' Such talk rankles Gates. He says his rivals should spend less time obsessing about Microsoft and more time on their own businesses. What's more, he argues, there's no assurance Microsoft will succeed in any new markets, much less dominate them. The emergence of Netscape's popular Navigator browser and Sun Microsystems Inc.'s Java programming language--threats to Windows, as he sees it--shows that the industry is highly competitive. ''No one has a guaranteed position,'' says Gates. Point taken. But if ever there was a company that has the best seat in the house, it's Microsoft. It practically owns the PC software market. Its Windows operating system claims some 86% of that segment, and its Office suite of productivity programs, including a spreadsheet and word processor, has an 87% lock. Game won--and the victor has emerged enormously wealthy. Microsoft is expected to reel in more than $4 billion in profits this fiscal year, which ends in June, on $14 billion in revenues, up 23% over a year ago. It looks even richer when compared with the rest of the software industry: In calendar year 1996, its $8.7 billion in revenues accounted for 10% of all sales for the 613 publicly traded software and information-services companies, says Standard & Poor's Compustat. More significantly, its $3.1 billion in operating profits was a remarkable 30% of all such profits. With the company's pockets lined with riches from Windows and related software, it can spend a staggering $2.5 billion a year on new-product development--more than the annual profits of the next 10 largest software companies combined. And what it can't develop fast enough, the company can buy. In the past two years, Microsoft has invested in or acquired 37 companies. On Dec. 31, it added Hotmail, an Internet E-mail startup founded by Sabeer Bhatia and Jack Smith, for an estimated $350 million in stock (page 37). It has snapped up technologies for surfing the Web via TV, for viewing video over the Net, for authoring Web pages, and for computers to understand voice commands. And still its cash hoard keeps climbing--from $6.9 billion in mid-1996 to $10 billion today. That has helped Microsoft extend its reach to brand-new terrain. In the past year, Microsoft has gotten a jump in online travel services, car sales, investment advice, and gaming. And Gates isn't shy about his ambitions. ''We will not stop enhancing Windows,'' he says. ''We will not succumb to the rhetoric of our competitors. We won't stop listening to customers and being aggressive about meeting their needs.'' Indeed, 1998 may be the year Gates makes his biggest push yet beyond the PC. Starting this month, planned new products will move Windows into car dashboards, cell phones, point-of-sale devices, and on up the food chain into powerful server computers that can do the job of a mainframe. In short, the world ain't seen nothin' yet. Here's where Microsoft is headed. CONSUMER ELECTRONICS On Jan. 10, the next chapter unfolds. That's when Gates will head to the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas to demonstrate new $300-to-$500 palm-size devices that use a pint-size version of Windows called CE, for consumer electronics. These gizmos go a long way toward fulfilling Gates's dream of a ''wallet PC''--a tiny device for keeping phone numbers, schedules, and zapping E-mail, all of which can be synchronized with Windows PCs. A half-dozen manufacturers are ready to ship the new palmtops, including Philips Electronics and Samsung Co. The real buzz at the electronics show could come from the debut of Microsoft's ''Auto PC'' operating system. This version of Windows CE is built into a car's sound system. It can handle cell-phone calls, fetch E-mail, and dispense travel information--much like a ''Java car'' unveiled by rivals Sun, Netscape, and IBM in November. Nissan Motor Co. will be the first to show Auto PC in an Infinity I-30 concept car. So far only a handful of carmakers, including Volkswagen and Hyundai, have signed up. Microsoft is betting that aftermarket car-component companies will make Auto PC a hit. ''Windows CE gives us an opportunity to sell more software to more people,'' says Kathryn Hinsch, senior director of marketing for Windows CE. ''This could be the next billion-dollar business for Microsoft.'' Windows CE is a classic example of how Microsoft stubbornly pushes its way into new fields, even if it takes years. CE is the software giant's third attempt to crack the handheld market--after its At Work and Winpad operating systems that never caught on. Microsoft didn't give up. Over the past seven years, it has continued to invest several hundred million dollars to improve the basic software. CE was launched in fall, 1996, and nine months later claimed 20% of the handheld market, according to market researcher Dataquest Inc. Today, CE is licensed by more than a dozen handheld manufacturers, and it's finding its way into all manner of machines. Atlanta-based Radiant Systems Inc., for example, plans to sell Windows CE point-of-sale devices to fast-food restaurants this winter. Customers press buttons on a screen to select the food and drinks they want--and orders are instantly whisked to the kitchen. Such devices could help boost Windows CE to 60% of the U.S. handheld market this year, says International Data Corp. What happens when even the try, try again approach fails? Consider Microsoft's attempts to corral the TV set-top box market--the fulcrum for software, entertainment, and Net cruising. In 1994, it debuted a scheme for digital set-top boxes, but it fizzled along with the market for interactive TVs. So Microsoft tried a different method: acquiring the leading business. Last winter, Microsoft spent $425 million to buy Silicon Valley startup WebTV, which had pioneering technology for surfing the Net via TV. Since then, Microsoft has improved WebTV with a faster setup and, during the holiday shopping season, an added carrot--a $100 rebate to anyone who bought a $279 WebTV device and signed up for six months of the $19.95-a-month service. The result: WebTV has racked up 250,000 subscribers, up from 50,000 a year ago, say WebTV executives. Still, the world of TV is proving tricky for Microsoft. Last spring, the software maker once again began stumping to sell its designs to the nation's cable-TV operators for their next-generation interactive systems. The pitch: Microsoft would provide software for set-top boxes, networks, and servers that pump info across the cable network. When Microsoft paid $1 billion in June for a piece of cable operator Comcast, it looked as though it might buy its way into becoming a top supplier of software for interactive-cable systems. But no such luck--at least, not yet. In October, the cable industry announced it would require all suppliers to comply with a set of industry-standard specifications--not necessarily those of Microsoft. Gates regrouped. Microsoft revised its pitch to cable operators--agreeing to comply with the specs and to sell pieces of its software a la carte. It's unclear how Microsoft will fare, but one thing is certain: Cable execs have seen how successful Microsoft is in PCs and are determined not to let it control a key piece of cable-network technology. ''We don't want to be Bill Gates's download,'' says Tele-Communications Inc. President Leo J. Hinderly Jr. Still, rumors are swirling that TCI is about to accept financing from Microsoft--which could turn it into an ally overnight. CORPORATE COMPUTING Microsoft's high-stakes bid for the $30 billion corporate market has never looked so good. Four years ago, it was nearly a no-show in so-called ''enterprise'' software, which spans databases to E-mail to powerful servers. After a dogged three years and $1 billion spent beefing up its industrial-strength Windows NT, Microsoft is gaining ground. Today, NT accounts for nearly 40% of server operating systems, up from 24.5% a year ago, says IDC. That share could take off even more when Microsoft ships its fifth and most powerful version of NT late this year. With some 27 million lines of code, it is the most ambitious program Microsoft has ever tackled--and it could prove to be its trump card. NT 5.0 is designed to handle the largest computing tasks, giving Microsoft a sorely needed piece to push beyond midsize networks and small server jobs. Says James E. Allchin, Microsoft senior vice-president of Personal & Business Systems: ''Microsoft is betting the company on this.'' From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 09:31:08 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: In God We Antitrust, from the Netly News In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <55e3ie25w165w@bwalk.dm.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Tim May writes: > AMD is now trading at $18. Five years ago it was trading at the same price. > In fact, it's been a narrow range between about 20 and 30 for most of that > time, briefly blipping up to 40 before dropping back to the level it was > half a decade ago. In fact, it's where it was in 1983, 15 years ago. (Check > the charts.) > > Meanwhile, Intel has moved from $15 to $72 (today's price) in 5 years, and > from something like $2 (or less, as the charts don't go back to '83 for > Intel), up a factor of 30 or more times. This is not the way to compare 2 stocks. Let me illustrate this with a numericl example. Stock A has been trading at about $10 for the last 10 years. Every year it paid $5 in dividends. (OK, so why is it to fucking cheap) Stock B has appreciated from $10 to $20 over the last 10 years. Which has better total returns? --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 09:32:13 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801091729.LAA09084@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <17F3ie27w165w@bwalk.dm.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Jim Choate writes: > > From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) > > > I'm sorry, I don't have the time to look this up. If you're trying to prove > > that Gauss was not a nice person, I don't believe it. > > Anyone who would tell their dying wife, via their son, to wait a moment > until he had finished his calculations is not a nice person. Do you have proof that Gauss did that? This sounds like another one of those urban legends the envious sheeple like to invent about celebrities, like the claim that Leonrado da Vinci was a cocksucker. > > argument you can make is to cite Bolyai's claims that Lobachevsky was not > > a real person but a "tentacle" of Gauss, created to persecute Bolyai > > (gee, that sounds vaguely familiar...), and you can't find any more dirt > > on Gauss, then it proves to me that he was indeed a remarkably nice person. > > What the hell are you talking about here? I made no such claims at all. You're citing janos Bolyai, who claimed exactly that. Unfortunately, the poor chap went insane. > > You also haven't explained how Bolyai could have been Gauss's school friend > > being 25 years younger. > > Bolyai's father worked with Gauss (as I explained) and his son John also > worked with Gauss from the time he (Bolyai) was in school; not Gauss. You're confused, Jim. Farkas Bolyai (the father) never claimed to have invented non-euclidean geometry. He published a math textbook in 1829, with an appendix credited to his son, Janos, which contained the results published by Lobachevsky in 1829. He's lucky we're not accusing him of plagiarism. > I am going to refrain from going on with the remainder of your 'points'. Because if you tried to do that, you would again expose your ignorance, as you did when you tried arguing about Soviet-Japanese skirmishes in the 1930s. Coward. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 09:31:07 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Cracking a program (fwd) Message-ID: <199801100152.TAA11108@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > From: "Ching Yen Choon" > Subject: Cracking a program > Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 08:46:24 +0800 > Let's say I have this encryption program and I don't know what's the > algorithm used in it. Is there a technique I can analyse and break it? Are > there any books or sites which teaches us how to do it? Applied Cryptography: Protocols, Algorithms, and Source Code in C Bruce Schneier ISBN 0-471-11709-9 $49.95 US Internet Cryptography Richard E. Smith ISBN 0-201-92480-3 ~$40.00 US Disappearing Cryptography Peter Wayner ISBN 0-12-738671-8 $29.95 US Decrypted Secrets: Methods and Maxims of Cryptology F.L. Bauer ISBN 3-540-60418-9 $39.95 US ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jewish Personals Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 10:07:29 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Reminder Message-ID: <199801100143.RAA10447@toad.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Dear Friend, At JewishPersonals, (http://www.JewishPersonals.com), we are dedicated to bringing Jewish Singles together. JewishPersonals is here to find your love, friendship or just e-mail buddies. Our site features, anonymous email, contests, bookstore, chat rooms and the unique Personal Agent feature which notify you automatically of any potential match according to your selection criteria. Come and join over 7,000 active members with pictures from around the world with a majority from North America. We invite you to visit our site and join us - It is fun, easy, FREE and it WORKS! Don't forget to tell your friends about http://www.JewishPersonals.com -- Sincerely, Deborah Moss (mailto:info@JewishPersonals.com) 19 W. 44 St., NY, NY 10036, 212 302 3366. Fax: 212 730 1681 Sign for your FREE* copy of Jewish Ink delivered to your door, the only Jewish Internet magazine and more from JCN -- http://www.jewishink.com/register.asp The JewishGuide to New York is open! http://www.jewishguide.com - more cities to follow. All services are provided by Jewish Communication Network, the premier Jewish Internet Company visits us at http://www.jcn18.com This e-mail was sent using an evaluation copy of dbMail by Mach5 Software. You can download a copy from http://www.mach5.com/. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: John Young Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 09:39:07 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: Germany not so worried about Gestapo wiretaps now Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980110013045.006e9b2c@pop.pipeline.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Tim May wrote: >(Things have been quiet on the crypto legislation/international agreements >front, from a news point of view, but we can safely assume that all of >these bad things are moving along behind the scenes, and will once again >become cause celebres.) A clue to what's coming: BXA is due to issue its regulations for implementing the Wassenaar Arrangement about January 26, so wrote Jim Lewis at the agency. (Most here know that Wassenaar is an international agreement among thirty-plus nations to control export of technology, including encryption.) Other nations who have signed Wassenaar will probably follow suit, preceded already by Australia and maybe others. Scuttlebutt is that they're awaiting the US giant's move (or dealing for better incentives). Further, there's surely preparatory work going on for crypto legislation in the upcoming session, and we may see a push early in the term in concert with Wassenaar and perhaps other Net regulations stimulated by fear of infrastructure terrorism. What's worth pondering is what new arguments will be made for controlling/decontrolling crypto, new ways to divide the baby so every interest group can have a chunk, new serendipitous incidents, accidents and incentives. Recall Bill Renisch's comment that nothing has ever boosted interest in BXA-who like encryption, as several legislators and other who's-thats in and out of gov have discovered. Any topic that generates public attention is not to be ignored for long. Along parallel lines, The New Yorker mag of January 12 has two stories of note: A short one on how blame the militants for the OKC bombing so powerfully argued before the trials of McVeigh and Nichols was not pursured during the trials. It suggests an apology to militants is in order for groundless accusations. Another much longer on the economic theory behind Justice's attack on Microsoft and how it challenges free market theory, especially for high technology. That government intervention may be needed for the pervasive dependency of society on such technology because it has such vast potential for harm. A curious parallel to the argument for Wassenaar. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Anonymous Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 03:51:57 +0800 To: coderpunks@toad.com Subject: Batch DSA Message-ID: <199801091935.UAA03400@basement.replay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Batch DSA Amos Fiat invented a way to do multiple RSA signatures using only one full-sized exponentiation [J Cryptology v10 n2 p75]. The trick is to sign each one with a different RSA key, where the keys all share the same modulus n but differ in their public exponents e. A similar technique allows DSA signatures to be batched. As with Batch RSA, each message ends up being signed with a different DSA key, where the keys share the same p, q, and g values, but differ in their public y values, where y = g^x mod p for a secret x. These techniques may be useful for situations where heavily loaded servers need to digitally sign many responses. A DSA signature on a message M (where M is the hash of the actual data) is done as follows: Choose a random value k. k must be different for every signature. Calculate R = g^k mod p mod q. Calculate S from S*k = M + R*x mod q. Then (R, S) is the signature. The time consuming part of this is the calculation of g^k. This is the only exponentiation which must be done. All the other calculations can be very fast. We can't re-use a k value because it allows x to be discovered very easily. If two signatures (R, S_1) and (R, S_2) use the same k value, we have (mod q): S_1*k = M_1 + R*x S_2*k = M_2 + R*x The capitalized values are known, the lower case k and x are the unknowns. We have two equations in two unknowns, which allows us to recover k and x. If different x values are used for each signature, then it should be safe to re-use k. This is how Batch DSA would work. The signer would publish his public key as p, q, and g as usual, but now he would publish multiple y_i = g^x_i values. The convention is that any message is considered signed by the key if it is signed by any of the y_i. To sign a batch of messages, one k value is used for all of them. The same calculation as above is used: R = g^k mod p mod q (same for all) S_i * k = M_i + R * x_i mod q The signature is (R, S_i, i), where the index i is included to tell the verifier which y_i to use. This is not vulnerable to the problem above of re-using k. The multiple signatures have the relationships: S_1*k = M_1 + R*x_1 S_2*k = M_2 + R*x_2 S_3*k = M_3 + R*x_3 ... We always have more unknowns than there are equations, which hides the values of k and x_i. This same technique can be applied to most other discrete log signatures, which generally have the same structure although they differ in the details of how x and k are used to construct R and S. With Batch RSA, there is a tradeoff between batch size and efficiency. The calculations become inefficient for batch sizes larger than tens of messages when keys are about 1K bits. Batch DSA can efficiently handle larger batches, but it has a tradeoff between batch size and key size. Each key variant requires specifying a full-sized y value, while with Batch RSA the variants just required listing a small e value (and possibly not even that, if the exponents are the small primes). This will limit Batch DSA in most circumstances to similar batch sizes of on the order of tens of messages, otherwise the keys become unreasonably large. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 10:16:02 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd) Message-ID: <199801100237.UAA11439@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Ok, my absolutely last post on this issue. Forwarded message: > Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd) > From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) > Date: Fri, 09 Jan 98 19:50:35 EST > > Anyone who would tell their dying wife, via their son, to wait a moment > > until he had finished his calculations is not a nice person. > > Do you have proof that Gauss did that? This sounds like another one of > those urban legends the envious sheeple like to invent about celebrities, > like the claim that Leonrado da Vinci was a cocksucker. It is a commen citation in several of his biographies. The first place I saw it was in a science history book that Isaac Asimov wrote (you know who he is I assume, known for writing world-class sci-fi and one of the best bio-chemistry textbooks around in the 70's and early 80's) back in the late 70's. It's the same book where he talks about Torricelli (he invented the mercurey barometer) and how he sent his brother-in-law into the bandit infested hills to actualy test the device. There seems to have been some indication that Torricelli had an alterior motive in this action. Unfortunately I think I have attempted to read a large fraction of the 300+ books that Asimov wrote at one time or another since about 1965 when I really started to read sci-fi and as a result they all seem to run together. I looked in the couple of Asimov books that I actualy own but unfortunately it isn't in either of them. I will look at the library I keep at the shop next time I go out there but it is equaly likely it was destroyed in my house fire 3+ years ago. If somebody out there knows which book this is I would appreciate the citation. I will add this to my 'hunt-list' that I keep as I tour the many bookstores here in Austin. If I find it I'll holler. > > > argument you can make is to cite Bolyai's claims that Lobachevsky was not > > > a real person but a "tentacle" of Gauss, created to persecute Bolyai > > > (gee, that sounds vaguely familiar...), and you can't find any more dirt > > > on Gauss, then it proves to me that he was indeed a remarkably nice person. > > > > What the hell are you talking about here? I made no such claims at all. > > You're citing janos Bolyai, who claimed exactly that. Unfortunately, the > poor chap went insane. No, I am citing the translator of Bolyai's book; Dr. George Bruce Halsted. If you want to discuss this further and intelligently it might do you well to have actualy read the book, which by your own admission you never have. Don't be a miser, spend the $6.00 US. I *might* take your comments a hell of a lot more seriously if just once you would cite a single reference to *any* of your comments or claims. It is interesting that when it comes down to proof you don't have the time to do the research nor do you *ever* fill any request for references. > You're confused, Jim. Farkas Bolyai (the father) never claimed to have > invented non-euclidean geometry. Your twisting words and dangerously approaching straight out lying. Both Farkas Bolyai and Gauss worked together on non-euclidian geometry. Let me quote the translators notes for the book: " But to prove Euclid's system, we must show that a triangle's angle-sum is exactly a straight angle, which nothing human can ever do. However, this is anticipating, for in 1799 it seems that the mind of the elder Bolyai, Bolyai Farkas, was in precisely the same state as that of his friend Gauss. Both were intensely trying to prove what now we know is indemonstable. ..." As to my making mistakes, big fucking deal. Everyone does. The difference between you and me is that I am not trying to do anything other than figure out what happened and why. If I'm wrong I'll admit it (and I am at least once a day). I am also willing to do the research (as best I can with what resources I have) and also willing to cite it. All I ask from those who wish to debate issues with me is equal treatment, in short the opportunity to review their sources and an honest opportunity to refute those sources. You seem to have a personal motive in everything you submit and further *never* cite any sort of source that can be reviewed and repudiated or supported. To put it bluntly, you lack honesty in your dealings with others. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 10:32:42 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com Subject: index.html Message-ID: <199801100253.UAA11537@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Welcome to the Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer. The purpose of this mailing list is to explore the frontier of cryptography, civil liberty, economics, and related issues. This is a very high traffic mailing list. Several members of the mailing list are involved in various types of events through the year. Participation by members of the list does not construe any support or affilliation with the mailing list. Contact the author of all works obtained through the remailer network. They retain original rights. There are currently 4 indipendant but cooperating sites supporting full cross posting of traffic. The goal is to provide a mechanism for improved list stability as well as making moderation and other forms of attacks harder to mount. These sites are: ssz.com algebra.com cyberpass.net htp.com (Japan) If you have specific questions about the list or particular remailer host sites please contact postmaster@domain_name for further information. Should you be interested in participating as a CDR host then make an announcement on the list. This will allow all the sites to update their maps. All that is required to become a member is some form of remailer or forwarding mechanism and a means to delete multiple copies of the same message. Currently there are several remailer programs but majordomo is the most popular. In general a procmail script is used to remove duplicates. Please let others know about this mailing list, the more the merrier! To subscribe to the CDR you should contact the individual operators as conditions at each remailer site may be quite different. To subscribe through SSZ you should send a note to list@ssz.com or send an email to majordomo@ssz.com with 'subscribe cypherpunks email_address' in the body. If you have questions or problems contact list@ssz.com There may be local groups of members who have regular (or not) meetings in order to discuss the various issues and projects appropriate to their individual membership. These groups generaly announce their meetings via the CDR. Please feel free to make appropriate announcements of activity in your area. Some popular books that are well respected for learning about Cryptography and the various issues are: Applied Cryptography: Protocols, Algorithms, and Source Code in C Bruce Schneier ISBN 0-471-11709-9 Disappearing Cryptography Peter Wayner ISBN 0-12-738671-8 Internet Cryptography Richard E. Smith ISBN 0-201-92480-3 Decrypted Secrets: Methods and Maxims of Cryptology F.L. Bauer ISBN 3-540-60418-9 Some sites that that might be of interest: Austin Cypherpunks Soda Cypherpunks - Original site From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Adam Back Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 08:18:22 +0800 To: tcmay@got.net Subject: Re: In God We Antitrust, from the Netly News In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801092140.VAA00255@server.eternity.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Tim May writes: > [snip] > The AMD K6 may not be quite the dog the K5 was, I've got a K5, seems like a fine CPU to me... around the performance of a P166 for about 1/2 the price. Why do you say the K5 is a dog? K6 is similarly value for money. I also bought a AMD 486 120Mhz a while ago for similar value for money reasons. I thought for a while Cyrix or AMD had faster processors available than Intel. (Just prior to to Pentium II, where the Pentium Pro was highly priced and for some applications slower than an Pentium clocked at the same speed). I may not be off to buy AMD stock, but I like competition, and will buy AMD or Cyrix any time they have a cheaper and compatible product. Adam -- Now officially an EAR violation... Have *you* exported RSA today? --> http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/ print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 05:18:50 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Batch RSA for stego data Message-ID: <199801092105.WAA15456@basement.replay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Problem: Suppose there is a source of data which looks like random noise but which contains embedded messages. This may be a subliminal channel in a crypto protocol, steganographically embedded data, or even a simple message pool where you want to disguise what key each message is for. How do you scan and identify messages for you? Solution: Extract bits as appropraite, apply whatever selection rules are necessary to pull them out of the stego'd data or other source. Some fraction of what results is messages for you, the remainder is noise or messages for someone else, which will be indistinguishable. Method 1: For finding messages sent by someone you have communicated with previously. Use shared secret data to flag the message. Method 1A: each time you send a message, include (in the encrypted portion) a 64-bit random value which will be used to flag the next message to them. Prepend the encrypted message with the 64 bit random value from the previous message. Each person keeps a list of the next random value to be expected from each communicant. The extracted data can be easily scanned to see if it matches anything on the list. Method 1B: use shared secret data and a sequence number to calculate a hash which will be used to flag the next message sent. This can be used to calculate the flag value to be expected for the next message from each sender, which can be compared against each potential message. For both methods 1A and 1B, once the message is recognized a shared secret key is used to decrypt the remainder of the data past the flag portion. The shared secret key can be changed after each message using similar techniques to changing the flags. (Safety tip: don't make the shared secret key the same as the flag value.) Method 2: For finding messages sent by someone you have never communicated with previously. Method 2A: Sender encrypts a low-entropy flag message with receiver's public key, pads it so it looks like random noise, and puts that at the start of each message. Receiver decrypts the beginning of each message using his private key, looking to see if the results are low entropy. When such a message is detected the secret key for decrypting the remainder of the message can be embedded in the low-entropy portion. Method 2B: Like 2A, but use Fiat's "Batch RSA" to decrypt multiple messages in one batch. Recipient publishes his public key with multiple legal exponents (say, the first 16 primes). Sender encrypts his low-entropy message choosing one of the encryption exponents at random. He checks to see if the low bits of the encryption output match the index of the encryption exponent (e.g. if the 7th encryption exponent was chosen then the low order 4 bits should hold the value 7). He repeatedly encrypts with different random padding until he finds an encrypted form which properly encodes the exponent. Receiver batches messages together such that the low order 4 bits of each message in the batch are different, and applies the Batch RSA decryption to try decrypting each message. As before the receiver looks to see if the result is low entropy. For both 2A and 2B it may be possible to do the decryption using only one of the two RSA primes, if the encrypted data was smaller than that prime value. (This idea comes from Shamir.) Even if not, the Batch RSA algorithm can be applied separately for the two primes and then the results combined at the end for each message via the CRT, as is often done for RSA decryption. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Declan McCullagh Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 11:39:08 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Will the First Puppy go under the ax? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Q: Mike, before getting to more important issues, how come you guys aren't neutering Buddy? (Laughter.) MCCURRY: There are a lot of people around here who have been neutered, but I haven't heard a discussion of Buddy being neutered. I do not know the answer to that. I will talk to the First Dog owner and get the answer to that question. Q: You would know if there was going to be an announcement today, wouldn't you? MCCURRY: I would not go beyond what I just said -- the Treasury Department is the place to go. Q: On the neutering? (Laughter.) MCCURRY: Not on neutering. Can you spay or neuter a puppy? Q: Six months. MCCURRY: Any dog owners out there that can help us? Q: Mike, neutering is usually six months -- MCCURRY: That's what I thought. It's got to be a little bit older. Q: I heard that you were planning not to neuter him. MCCURRY: I wasn't planning to do anything with him. (Laughter.) Other than sucking up to the president by scratching little Buddy's belly from time to time. (Laughter.) Q: It will, however, be at risk. (Laughter.) MCCURRY: I'll find out on that. And I know your insatiable appetite for dog trivia -- I will see if I can find out about that. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Anonymous Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 11:40:30 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Spies like US Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain http://www.telegraph.co.uk:80/et?ac=000602131144806&rtmo=0sKsx2bq&atmo 0sKsx2bq&pg=/et/97/12/16/ecspy16..html A European Commission report warns that the United States has developed an extensive network spying on European citizens and we should all be worried. Simon Davies reports [INLINE] Cooking up a charter for snooping Spies everywhere A GLOBAL electronic spy network that can eavesdrop on every telephone, email and telex communication around the world will be officially acknowledged for the first time in a European Commission report to be delivered this week. The report - Assessing the Technologies of Political Control - was commissioned last year by the Civil Liberties Committee of the European Parliament. It contains details of a network of American-controlled intelligence stations on British soil and around the world, that "routinely and indiscriminately" monitor countless phone, fax and email messages. It states: "Within Europe all email telephone and fax communications are routinely intercepted by the United States National Security Agency transfering all target information from the European mainland via the strategic hub of London then by satellite to Fort Meade in Maryland via the crucial hub at Menwith Hill in the North York moors in the UK." The report confirms for the first time the existence of the secretive ECHELON system. Until now, evidence of such astounding technology has been patchy and anecdotal. But the report - to be discussed on Thursday by the committee of the office of Science and Technology Assessment in Luxembourg - confirms that the citizens of Britain and other European states are subject to an intensity of surveillance far in excess of that imagined by most parliaments. Its findings are certain to excite the concern of MEPs. "The ECHELON system forms part of the UKUSA system (see 'Cooking up a charter for snooping') but unlike many of the electronic spy systems developed during the Cold War, ECHELON is designed primarily for non-military targets: governments, organizations and businesses in virtually every country. "The ECHELON system works by indiscriminately intercepting very large quantities of communications and then siphoning out what is valuable using artificial intelligence aids like MEMEX to find key words". According to the report, ECHELON uses a number of national dictionaries containing key words of interest to each country. For more than a decade, former agents of US, British, Canadian and New Zealand national security agencies have claimed that the monitoring of electronic communications has become endemic throughout the world. Rumours have circulated that new technologies have been developed which have the capability to search most of the world's telex, fax and email networks for "key words". Phone calls, they claim, can be automatically analysed for key words. Former signals intelligence operatives have claimed that spy bases controlled by America have the ability to search nearly all data communications for key words. They claim that ECHELON automatically analyses most email messaging for "precursor" data which assists intelligence agencies to determine targets. According to former Canadian Security Establishment agent Mike Frost, a voice recognition system called Oratory has been used for some years to intercept diplomatic calls. The driving force behind the report is Glyn Ford, Labour MEP for Greater Manchester East. He believes that the report is crucial to the future of civil liberties in Europe. "In the civil liberties committee we spend a great deal of time debating issues such as free movement, immigration and drugs. Technology always sits at the centre of these discussions. There are times in history when technology helps democratise, and times when it helps centralise. This is a time of centralisation. The justice and home affairs pillar of Europe has become more powerful without a corresponding strengthening of civil liberties." The report recommends a variety of measures for dealing with the increasing power of the technologies of surveillance being used at Menwith Hill and other centres. It bluntly advises: "The European Parliament should reject proposals from the United States for making private messages via the global communications network (Internet) accessible to US intelligence agencies." The report also urges a fundamental review of the involvement of the American NSA (National Security Agency) in Europe, suggesting that their activities be either scaled down, or become more open and accountable. Such concerns have been privately expressed by governments and MEPs since the Cold War, but surveillance has continued to expand. US intelligence activity in Britain has enjoyed a steady growth throughout the past two decades. The principal motivation for this rush of development is the US interest in commercial espionage. In the Fifties, during the development of the "special relationship" between America and Britain, one US institution was singled out for special attention. The NSA, the world's biggest and most powerful signals intelligence organisation, received approval to set up a network of spy stations throughout Britain. Their role was to provide military, diplomatic and economic intelligence by intercepting communications from throughout the Northern Hemisphere. The NSA is one of the shadowiest of the US intelligence agencies. Until a few years ago, it existence was a secret and its charter and any mention of its duties are still classified. However, it does have a Web site (www.nsa.gov:8080) in which it describes itself as being responsible for the signals intelligence and communications security activities of the US government. One of its bases, Menwith Hill, was to become the biggest spy station in the world. Its ears - known as radomes - are capable of listening in to vast chunks of the communications spectrum throughout Europe and the old Soviet Union. In its first decade the base sucked data from cables and microwave links running through a nearby Post Office tower, but the communications revolutions of the Seventies and Eighties gave the base a capability that even its architects could scarcely have been able to imagine. With the creation of Intelsat and digital telecommunications, Menwith and other stations developed the capability to eavesdrop on an extensive scale on fax, telex and voice messages. Then, with the development of the Internet, electronic mail and electronic commerce, the listening posts were able to increase their monitoring capability to eavesdrop on an unprecedented spectrum of personal and business communications. This activity has been all but ignored by the UK Parliament. When Labour MPs raised questions about the activities of the NSA, the Government invoked secrecy rules. It has been the same for 40 years. Glyn Ford hopes that his report may be the first step in a long road to more openness. "Some democratically elected body should surely have a right to know at some level. At the moment that's nowhere". See also in this week's issue: Pretty good Phil bounces back (a report on the consolidation of the reputation of Phil Zimmermann, creator of PGP). 14 October 1997: Europe's private parts to expand From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: m2cresumes@earthlink.net Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 15:09:33 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Access Over 1 MILLION Resumes! Message-ID: <1> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain NOT a job site, NOT a search engine, NOT a career board, NOT a newsgroup AND we do NOT limit you to a single database! U S Resume is a true technological leap. It allows subscribers access the OVER 1 MILLION resumes on the ENTIRE INTERNET (source: Electronic Recruiting Index, Dec. 1996). It finds your candidates and also downloads their resumes to your hard drive all automatically, so you can browse them later with NO Internet wait time. You gain access to the same "virtual robotics" technology used by our Fortune 500 clients, enabling you to spend less time looking for qualified candidates and more time placing them. Prices start as low as $295 per month, no more than an ordinary job board and less than just one typical help wanted display ad. Why not have the ENTIRE INTERNET as your own PERSONAL DATABASE? For additional information please visit us at http://www.usresume.com If the site doesn't answer all your questions, please don't hesitate to call Dave Weltman or Jeff Eisenberg at 914-627-2600. Thanks! P.S If you would like to be added to our DO NOT EMAIL LIST, please reply to this message with the word REMOVE in the Subject of your reply. When our Robot finds the word REMOVE in the Subject of any message, it will automatically add the senders email address to our DO NOT EMAIL LIST. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 13:07:53 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Einstein quotes Message-ID: <199801100530.XAA12109@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text I thought I'd share these quote... The one quote that I found really funny is the one where Einstein says that had he known he would have been a locksmith. At some point after he came to the US somebody asked him what he would have been if he hadn't taken up physics. His reply was a plumber. He was promptly made an honorary member of the national plumbers union. Forwarded message: > X-within-URL: http://www.humboldt1.com/~gralsto/einstein/quotes.html > > ALBERT EINSTEIN QUOTES > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > "It is best, it seems to me, to separate one's inner striving from > one's trade as far as possible. It is not good when one's daily break > is tied to God's special blessing." -- Albert Einstein > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > "It may affront the military-minded person to suggest a reqime that > does not maintain any military secrets." -- Albert Einstein > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > "It would be possible to describe everything scientifically, but it > would make no sense; it would be without meaning, as if you described > a Beethoven symphony as a variation of wave pressure." -- Albert > Einstein > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > "So long as they don't get violent, I want to let everyone say what > they wish, for I myself have always said exactly what pleased me." -- > Albert Einstein > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > "Teaching should be such that what is offered is perceived as a > valuable gift and not as a hard duty." -- Albert Einstein > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > "Gravity cannot be held responsible for people falling in love." -- > Albert Einstein > > Thanks to Rick Burress > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > "When you sit with a nice girl for two hours, it seems like two > minutes. When you sit on a hot stove for two minutes, it seems like > two hours that's relativity." -- Albert Einstein > > Thanks to Glen E Kelly > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > "He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned > my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, scince for > him the spinal cord would fully suffice. This disgrace to civilization > should be done away with at once. Heroism at command, senseless > brutality, deplorable love-of-country stance, how violently I hate all > this, how despiceable an ignoreable war is; I would rather be torn to > shreds than be a part of so base an action! It is my conviction that > killing under the cloak of war is nothing but an act of murder." -- > Albert Einstein > Thanks to Alexander Elsing > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > "As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not > certain; as far as they are certain, they do not refer to > reality."--Albert Einstein > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > Imagination is more important than knowledge. -- Albert Einstein > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > Sometimes one pays most for the things one gets for nothing. -- Albert > Einstein > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > "If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called > research, would it?" > - Albert Einstein > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > "Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age > eighteen." > - Albert Einstein > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > Albert Einstein, when asked to describe radio, replied: > "You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull > his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you > understand this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send > signals here, they receive them there. The only difference is that > there is no cat." > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > God doesn't play dice. > -- Albert Einstein > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > God may be subtle, but He isn't plain mean. -- Albert Einstein > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > "I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World > War IV will be fought with sticks and stones." -- Albert Einstein > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > If A equals success, then the formula is _ A = _ X + _ Y + _ Z. _ X is > work. _ Y is play. _ Z is keep your mouth shut. -- Albert Einstein > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > "If I had only known, I would have been a locksmith." > -- Albert Einstein > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > Man usually avoids attributing cleverness to somebody else > -- unless it is an enemy. > > -- Albert Einstein > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > The hardest thing in the world to understand is the income tax. -- > Albert Einstein > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." > --Albert Einstein > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > "If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts." --Albert > Einstein > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > "I never think of the future. It comes soon enough." --Albert Einstein > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and > I'm not sure about the former." --Albert Einstein > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > "Before God we are all equally wise - and equally foolish." --Albert > Einstein (1879-1955) > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > "The most incomprehensible thing about the world is that it is at all > comprehensible." --Albert Einstein (1879-1955) > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > "The release of atomic energy has not created a new problem. It has > merely made more urgent the necessity of solving an existing one." > --Albert Einstein (1879-1955) > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > "You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war." --Albert > Einstein (1879-1955) > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > "There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing > is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle." --A. > Einstein > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > "Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. > The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly > submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his > intelligence." --Einstein, Albert > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > "A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, > education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would > indeeded be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of > punishment and hope of reward after death." --Einstein, Albert > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > "What really interests me is whether God had any choice in the > creation of the world." --Albert Einstein > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > "If one studies too zealously, one easily loses his pants." --Albert > Einstein > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > Through the release of atomic energy, our generation has brought into > the world the most revolutionary force since prehistoric man's > discovery of fire. This basic force of the universe cannot be fitted > into the outmoded concept of narrow nationalisms. > For there is no secret and there is no defense; there is no > possibility of control except through the aroused understanding and > insistence of the peoples of the world. We scientists recognise our > inescapable responsibility to carry to our fellow citizens an > understanding of atomic energy and its implication for society. In > this lies our only security and our only hope - we believe that an > informed citizenry will act for life and not for death. > A. Einstein, 1947 d.C. > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > If you are out to describe the truth, leave elegance to the tailor. > > > _________________________________________________________________ > From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 14:58:44 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801100237.UAA11439@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <5BT3ie33w165w@bwalk.dm.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Jim Choate writes: > > Ok, my absolutely last post on this issue. (Pointing to the horse) "He's dead, Jim." > > > Anyone who would tell their dying wife, via their son, to wait a moment > > > until he had finished his calculations is not a nice person. > > > > Do you have proof that Gauss did that? This sounds like another one of > > those urban legends the envious sheeple like to invent about celebrities, > > like the claim that Leonrado da Vinci was a cocksucker. > > It is a commen citation in several of his biographies. The first place I saw > it was in a science history book that Isaac Asimov wrote (you know who he is > I assume, You're getting desperate, Jim, and resorting to cheap personal shots again. Yes, I know who Isaac Asimov was. In fact, I met him in person. He made many little mistakes in his "popular science" writings. I don't consider him to be a credible source as far as personal gossip about dead science personnages is concerned. Any other citations for your bizarre accusation? > > > > argument you can make is to cite Bolyai's claims that Lobachevsky was n > > > > a real person but a "tentacle" of Gauss, created to persecute Bolyai > > > > (gee, that sounds vaguely familiar...), and you can't find any more dir > > > > on Gauss, then it proves to me that he was indeed a remarkably nice per > > > > > > What the hell are you talking about here? I made no such claims at all. > > > > You're citing janos Bolyai, who claimed exactly that. Unfortunately, the > > poor chap went insane. > > No, I am citing the translator of Bolyai's book; Dr. George Bruce Halsted. > If you want to discuss this further and intelligently it might do you well to > have actualy read the book, which by your own admission you never have. > Don't be a miser, spend the $6.00 US. It's not the money, it's my time. I am indeed being miserly with my time, Jim. Sorry, I don't think it's worth my time to read the rants of an insane person claiming that Lobachevsky was not a real person, but a "tentacle" of Gauss. We get more than enough of those on the cypherpunks list, from Timmy May &co. > I *might* take your comments a hell of a lot more seriously if just once you > would cite a single reference to *any* of your comments or claims. It is > interesting that when it comes down to proof you don't have the time to do > the research nor do you *ever* fill any request for references. You're lying, Jim. For example, you've asked me for a reference to the national origins act, which barred inter alia Japanese-born immigrants from 1924 to 195x; something you should have been able to verify for yourself. I gave you a reference to a Russian book on US history, knowing that being an ignorant American you can only read English. If you like, I can cite a number of Russian books on history of math as well, which won't do you any good. > Your twisting words and dangerously approaching straight out lying. And I've just caught you straight out lying. > Farkas Bolyai and Gauss worked together on non-euclidian geometry. Let me > quote the translators notes for the book: > > " But to prove Euclid's system, we must show that a triangle's angle-sum is > exactly a straight angle, which nothing human can ever do. > However, this is anticipating, for in 1799 it seems that the mind of the > elder Bolyai, Bolyai Farkas, was in precisely the same state as that of his > friend Gauss. Both were intensely trying to prove what now we know is > indemonstable. ..." Probably hundreds of mathematicians since Euclid's times have tried and failed to prove the 6th axiom as a theorem that follows from the other axioms. Farkas may have been one of the hundreds of people who wasted time trying to prove a false statement during two millenia. Gauss, Lobachevsky, and Janos Bolyai (the son) all proved that this axiom is independent of the others and pondered what kind of geometry would arise if it were omitted. Do you understand the difference? Do you have any evidence that Farkas's waste of time in 1799 contributed to either Gauss's or Janos Bolyai's impressive results 20+ years later? > As to my making mistakes, big fucking deal. Everyone does. The difference > between you and me is that I am not trying to do anything other than figure > out what happened and why. If I'm wrong I'll admit it (and I am at least > once a day). I am also willing to do the research (as best I can with what > resources I have) and also willing to cite it. All I ask from those who wish > to debate issues with me is equal treatment, in short the opportunity to You should cut down on personal attacks and flaming. > review their sources and an honest opportunity to refute those sources. You > seem to have a personal motive in everything you submit and further *never* > cite any sort of source that can be reviewed and repudiated or supported. Again, you're lying. Have you tried to refute the national origins act? My sources are Russian books on the history of math. Since you can't read Russian, there's no point for me to site them for you. > To put it bluntly, you lack honesty in your dealings with others. Jim, why do you insist on turning any discussion into a barrage of personal attacks, cheap shots, and outright lies? --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Rabid Wombat Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 06:33:02 +0800 To: Crisavec Subject: Re: cypherpunks and guns In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980109002532.0084c330@alaska.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > > > >The fact that they collect a paycheck from the government is prima facie > >evidence of diminished mental capacity. > > Don't bet on.... > > > There is only one war, and it's not between the whites and the > blacks, Labour and the Conservatives, Democrats and Republicans, or > the Federation and the Romulans, it's between those of us who aren't > complete idiots and those of us who are. > > Who's side are you on? From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Ryan Anderson Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 20:08:41 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: This may be of interest... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain http://www.law.emory.edu/ELJ/volumes/sum96/lessig.html If it doesn't hit you immediately, let me help. The lawyer who wrote this is the "Special Master" in the DOJ vs. MS case. It's an interesting paper, and should shed some interesting light on his viewpoint in the MS case. Enjoy! Ryan Anderson - Alpha Geek PGP fp: 7E 8E C6 54 96 AC D9 57 E4 F8 AE 9C 10 7E 78 C9 print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 09:08:21 +0800 To: Subject: Cracking a program Message-ID: <199801100849.IAA17818@acs.unitele.com.my> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Let's say I have this encryption program and I don't know what's the algorithm used in it. Is there a technique I can analyse and break it? Are there any books or sites which teaches us how to do it? Any help is much appreciated Thank you. YeN ChOoN From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 16:51:08 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Surprise - Anonymous Journalist Opposes Laundering [1/4] Message-ID: <199801100844.JAA10497@basement.replay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain The following series of posts is extracted from E-Communist. In this article the writer (but a mere cog in the Anonymous Entity known as GovernMedia NLC), exhibits the guVermin cheerleading so pervasive among those in his/her profession. In keeping with the spirit of anonymous advocacy favoring global fiscal tyranny, "our" collectivistic comments are in brackets as indicated: [S'n'S] Originally assigned the staid title 'Money Laundering', "we" have taken the indecent liberty of naming each post separately: Part 1 "Know Your Journalist" [1/4] [1/4] ... countries set up the Financial Action Task Force (FATF) [not to be confused with the BATF] in 1989. Based at the OECD [worthle$$ bureaucracy #2] in Paris, this now has 26 member countries, which are supposed to abide by its 40 recommendations. Among other things, these encourage mutual assistance in laundering cases. International co-operation is also being fostered by financial-intelligence units [FiUs], some of which recently set up a special computer network to swap information about laundering cases. A statistical black hole What effect has all this had? It is hard to tell for sure, but such evidence as looks reliable is hardly encouraging [discouraging]. A report published in 1995 by AUSTRAC, [worthle$$ bureaucracy #3] Australia's financial-intelligence unit, concluded that between A$1 billion and A$4.5 billion ($740m-3.3 billion) was washed through Australia each year. The report noted that if this figure is accurate, then Australian poLice were recouping [recouping?, proceeds of voluntary exchanges are considered stolen when in fact those doing the "recouping" are the criminals] barely 1% of all the ["]dirty["] money that they [_]guess[_] is flowing into [but not flowing out of? It must be all those "dirty" foreigners corrupting the innocent Aussie drug addicts and tax evaders] the country--a surprisingly low figure given that Australia is widely acknowledged to have one of the most comprehensive anti-laundering regimes in the world. [so AUSTRAC thugs are basing their conclusions on guesstimates, which, if as accurate as they kinda sorta think they might be indicates: Minions of the Australian FIU stole, that is, recouped, some 10-45mil AUD in cash and an unspecified amount of other property, but this is "barely 1%" of the _potential_ bounty to be had in the lucrative worldwide industry of asset forfeiture. Allow me to "guesstimate" a couple of other conclusions they may have made: 1) AUSTRAC lacks sufficient funding (AUSTRAC clerks still lack vacation slush funds). 2) AUSTRAC lacks sufficient personnel (AUSTRAC entry teams are still without APCs and close air support).] When it comes to prosecutions of money launderers, few countries keep reliable statistics, often because laundering was only recently deemed a separate ["]crime["]. One that does is the Netherlands. According to its justice ministry, in 1995 some 16,125 [subjectively] ["]suspect["] transactions were reported to the country's financial-intelligence [looting] unit. Only 14% of these were sufficiently dubious [read: juicy confiscatable assets of sufficient size coming to their attention due to amateurish operations that lacked political protection which made these "suspect" assets worth the time and effort to grab] to pass to the poLice, and only 0.5% of the original total led to prosecutions. [no mention of the % of cases that led to confiscations] Anecdotal evidence suggests a similar lack-of-["]success["] elsewhere. Why aren't more laundrymen being caught? [what about laundrywomen, the sexist pigs!] The answer, say those leading the fight against dirty [free] money, is that most anti-laundering regimes are still in their infancy. [yet to grow into the horrid monsters of their wet dreams] But, they say, at least the situation is improving. [deteriorating] Stanley Morris, FINCEN's [worthle$$ named bureaucracy #4] director [thug], says undercover operations in America show that launderers' fees have risen from around 6% of the money washed in the early 1980s, to 25-28% today. The explanation is that laundering is getting harder and riskier--and hence more expensive. Some experts also claim that a recent increase in the ["]smuggling["] of cash across borders is a sign that [gasp] more ["]criminal["] ["]loot["] is shunning banks. [meaning people are fed up with American banks, American regulators and America in general: "sell off, cash in and drop out".] There has also been some progress internationally. A few well-known haunts of launderers, such as Switzerland and the Cayman Islands, have made it easier for bankers to report ["]suspect["] transactions [reclaiming lost virginity] without breaking bank-secrecy laws, and for their financial gumshoes to co-operate with foreign ones. [meaning they already have so much money on deposit that it won't effect profits significantly, besides which, the typical lazy African dictators' first choice remains CH and those who are concerned about such matters have long since moved to greener pastures anyway...] In February, Antigua, another Caribbean haven, closed five out of six Russian offshore banks because of concerns that they had been laundering money for Russia's mafia. [no security through obscurity there] The FATF has also cracked down. [pun intended?] Last year, for the first time, it publicly upbraided one of its members, Turkey, for not introducing an anti-laundering law. [Turkey, a typical 3rd world pit, is too busy stealing from its citizens via hyperinflation to bother with passing pro-looting legislation.] And it gave banks a warning abot dealing with Seychelles after the government offered anyone placing $10m or more in certain investments immunity from prosecution [no STO there either]. The law containing this open invitation [more like comic relief] to crooked cash has since been shelved. > E-Communist > 25 St James's Street > London SW1A 1HG > www.economist.com Fly low S'n'S Pro:__Money Laundering__Self Medication__Militia Grade Arms__Realism________ __Indirect Taxation___________Adults___________Individual Irrevocable Right$ } Smurf N Sniff Non-Member, Gunfiscators of Canberra | } P.O. Bunker 6669 "We don't want to be like those paranoid | } Hohoe, Ghana Americans, this is a social DemoBracy." | } fn-fal@edict.gov.un +233 55 1234 boycott GovernMedia NLC | ANTI:_feral guVermin____Vooters__________blue hellmutts______nihilists______ __biometric herd management__"(The) children"__state granted privilege_____! From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Anonymous Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 17:07:25 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Re: your mail Message-ID: <199801100900.KAA11892@basement.replay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >On Thu, 8 Jan 1998 13:54:41 -0700 (MST) Graham-John Bullers > writes: >>On Thu, 8 Jan 1998, Mix wrote: >> >>I think Vulis needs each of us to send ten copies of this back to him. > >I think so too what's his email address????? > > > >Anonymous304 Uh, you subscribe to the list but you can't find Vulis' address? Just how stupid are you? From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 23:48:46 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: your mail In-Reply-To: <199801100900.KAA11892@basement.replay.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Anonymous writes: > >On Thu, 8 Jan 1998 13:54:41 -0700 (MST) Graham-John Bullers > > writes: > >>On Thu, 8 Jan 1998, Mix wrote: > >> > >>I think Vulis needs each of us to send ten copies of this back to him. > > > >I think so too what's his email address????? > > > > > > > >Anonymous304 > > Uh, you subscribe to the list but you can't find Vulis' address? Just how > stupid are you? Guy Polis is indeed very stupid. His former colleagues at J.P.Morgan and Salomon bros, where he used to be a consultant, remember him as a very stupid guy. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: anonymous304@juno.com (Anony J Man) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 23:13:13 +0800 To: m2cresumes@earthlink.net Subject: REMOVE Message-ID: <19980110.100047.3422.1.anonymous304@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On 9 Jan 1998 22:41:02 GMT m2cresumes@earthlink.net writes: >NOT a job site, NOT a search engine, NOT a career board, NOT a >newsgroup >AND we do NOT limit you to a single database! > >U S Resume is a true technological leap. It allows subscribers access >the OVER 1 MILLION resumes on the ENTIRE INTERNET (source: Electronic >Recruiting Index, Dec. 1996). It finds your candidates and also >downloads their resumes to your hard drive all automatically, so you >can browse them later with NO Internet wait time. You gain access to >the same "virtual robotics" technology used by our Fortune 500 >clients, enabling you to spend less time looking for qualified >candidates and more time placing them. > >Prices start as low as $295 per month, no more than an ordinary job >board and less than just one typical help wanted display ad. > >Why not have the ENTIRE INTERNET as your own PERSONAL DATABASE? > >For additional information please visit us at http://www.usresume.com > >If the site doesn't answer all your questions, please don't hesitate >to call Dave Weltman or Jeff Eisenberg at 914-627-2600. > >Thanks! > >P.S If you would like to be added to our DO NOT EMAIL LIST, please >reply to this message with the word REMOVE in the Subject of your >reply. When our Robot finds the word REMOVE in the Subject of any >message, it will automatically add the senders email address to our DO >NOT EMAIL LIST. > > > From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 01:08:10 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: Freedom Forum report on the State of the First Amendment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4qm4ie46w165w@bwalk.dm.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain ? the Platypus {aka David Formosa} writes: > > Why there is even discussion on this point on a list whose membership is > > composed mainly of market anarchists is beyond me, > > Since when has a crypto anarchist been a market anarchist? You can't realy be one without the other. You can't be a little bit statist. You can't be a little bit pregnant. > > the NAP and rights of > > association should clearly define the answer to this question, no > > agression is involved in the act of firing or declining to hire people > > based on their colour/nationality or any other factor whatsoever. > > Ok a for instence, if I was your boss and I sated that I would fire you > unless you would go *u-hum* cave exploring with me[1]. Such situations > have occured in the past, would you support them. If the sole owner of a business has a female secretary brought into his office, pulls down his pants, and orders her to kiss his dick; and fires her for refusing; then he's engaging in behavior that's been viewed for centuries as one of the occupational hazards for working women and nothing out of the ordinary. Of course if the "sexual harasser" happens to be governor bill clinton, then he can do no wrong; if the boss himself works for a corporation thrn we have an agency problem: she can complain to his boss, or the board of directors, or the shareholders, that he's harming the business by firing a valuable employee over his own sexual problems. If the secretary sues him in the US, she might win some money, turn most of it over to her lawyers, and never find another job; etc. Wouldn't it be easier to say that if you don't like your present job for any reason (including your boss making amorous advances, or too little pay, or the color of the paint on the walls of your office), you should look for another one? > To me a person with that amount of power is uneceptable. You'd rather give his power to the employee or to the state? Don't forget that this power is balanced by the employee's right to get up and leave. Would you have preferred the model popular in the medieval europe, where the boss was forced to care for the worker (peasant) if he got too old/sick to work, but the worker/peasant couldn't get up and leave just because he felt like it? Apparently that involved the boss's right to fuck the peasant and his family any time he pleased (ever heard of droit de segnor?) > > the model is ethically right in that it allows businesses > > and individuals to behave as they please as long as it harms no other > > person, > > So allowing someone to stave to death because thay have the wrong collour > of skin, or unwilling to get up close and personal with the boss, is not a > form of harm. Given the choice, some people indeed would rathe starve to death than work. However all modern societies provide some sort of marxist safety net: those who are too sick/old to work, or can't find work, or perhaps unilling to work are given some of the wealth taken away by the state from those who have it (mostly from those who do work). This redistribution of wealth is another contraversial issue, but it has very little connection to the question of an employer's right to discrminate on criteria other than bona fide occpuational qualifications. Indeed, if all the employers in the world conspired not to hire redheads, they still wouldn't starve; they'd get welfare (dole, whatever it's called in ozland), and the more enterprising ones would start businesses of their own and hire their fellow redheads. As US blacks once did that and were in much better shape than they are now. > Immagion there is a truck rolling out of conrol in your direction, > keeping silent may harm you by preventing you from jumping out of the way, > but this is not an agressive act, it is a passive one: I have declined to > warn you. The inaction that you've described is highly unethical, but hardly illegal. Likewise racial discrimination is very unthical, and I'd generally try not to deal with anyone who practices it, but it shouldn't be illegal. > [1] Not that I am thay way enclined. We know, you prefer kangaroos. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 03:23:42 +0800 To: paul@fatmans.demon.co.uk> Subject: Freedom, Starvation, and Uncoerced Relationships In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 6:17 AM -0800 1/10/98, ? the Platypus {aka David Formosa} wrote: >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > >On Sun, 4 Jan 1998, Paul Bradley wrote: > >[...] > >> > My rights to swing my fists end at your noise. When ever you interact >> > with other peaple your rights are tempered by there rights. Even Adam >> > Smith recognised that its was gorverments dutie to redress the failing of >> > the market. >> >> Why there is even discussion on this point on a list whose membership is >> composed mainly of market anarchists is beyond me, > >Since when has a crypto anarchist been a market anarchist? And how else could it be? >> the NAP and rights of >> association should clearly define the answer to this question, no >> agression is involved in the act of firing or declining to hire people >> based on their colour/nationality or any other factor whatsoever. > >Ok a for instence, if I was your boss and I sated that I would fire you >unless you would go *u-hum* cave exploring with me[1]. Such situations >have occured in the past, would you support them. Employees and employers make agreements all the time. To wear funny uniforms, to bark when the boss says bark, to write in certain languages, and so on. If an employee does not wish to do what an employer instructs, he or she may leave. Sounds fair to me. (And most employers will value work output--profits--over lesser considerations. So, even though a boss has every "right" to demand that employees where dunce caps to work, for example, few will. Those who do will lose their employees and go out of business. Sounds fair to me.) >So allowing someone to stave to death because thay have the wrong collour >of skin, or unwilling to get up close and personal with the boss, is not a >form of harm. I "allow people to starve to death" each and every day because they are not doing something I want. Think about it. Every time I elect not to send money to starving Bengalis or Hutus or Ugabugus I am "allowing them to starve," quite literally. So? If an employer chooses not to hire certain types of persons this is really no different from my choosing not to marry certain types of persons (and I can imagine I could save a woman from "starving" by simply flying to Bangla Desh, finding a starving woman, marrying her, and then supporting her. So?). These are well-covered issues in many books on libertarianism and freedom. Freedom means freedom. That some people will not have as much food as they would like to have in a free society is no reason to discard freedom. More to the point, crypto anarchy means taking such decisions about whether to discard freedom or not out of the hands of others. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "James A. Donald" Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 03:41:52 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: The name "Crypto Kong" Message-ID: <199801101918.LAA06148@proxy4.ba.best.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -- I have received some negative feedback about the name "Crypto Kong". Two people have complained that it is unprofessional sounding. This is not necessarily grounds for alarm. One reason the name irritates people is that it sticks in the mind like a bad song, which was of course an important reason for choosing it. No one is likely to say "Hey, I saw this plug for some digital signing tool, but I can't remember the name." On the other hand ... What do you think? --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG dOmrVP48CpP0XXqoK97INGkIpJVWXfGzg3ZO/DO5 40BWwXgdXOaD0gGym/BpRFmyDIg3eYHNBgULka9Ix --------------------------------------------------------------------- We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this right, not from the arbitrary power of the state. http://www.jim.com/jamesd/ From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 01:07:28 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: [Humor] Kennedy's New Legislation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain ? the Platypus {aka David Formosa} writes: > On Thu, 8 Jan 1998, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote: > > > Mark Rogaski writes: > > > > > An entity claiming to be Bill Stewart wrote: > [...] > > > : It's only evolution in action if it gets them before they've reproduced > > > : > > > > > > Actually, natural selection in action ... > > > > Same thing... > > There is a diffrence. It is only evoltion if there is a combernation of > natural verence and natural selection. If you have a population of > unchanging clones (your typical 'master race') you don't get any evoltion > or improvement. In case of homo sapiens, it is the same thing. Assholes like the Kennedys kill themselves though drugs and reckless skiing before they have a chance to breed (or breed more). One of the reasons why all drugs should be legal is that people who should not breed will use the drugs to kill themselves, leaving more room/wealth/resources for their genetic superiors. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 03:54:52 +0800 To: John Young Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 11:12 AM -0800 1/10/98, John Young wrote: >John Cassidy writes in the January 12 New Yorker mag >of the controversial economic theory which undergirds DoJ's >antitrust action against Microsoft. > >He cites a seminal 1984 paper by Brian Arthur, "Competing >Technologies and Lock-in by Historical Small Events: The >Dynamics of Choice Under Increasing Returns." I've followed Brian Arthur's work for a decade or so, and find much in it that seems quite accurate. One of his main observations is that size _does_ matter, that larger economic agents often tend to get larger. There are various plausible reasons for this, but it does seem to match reality. (I'm avoiding jumping to conclusions that Brian Arthur is anti-capitalist or any such thing. Just discussing reality as it is.) We see this in the "Intel-Cisco-Sun-Microsoft-Oracle" universe, where each of these players has about an 80% or better market share in its respective niche. Now Brian Arthur doesn't claim that such dominant market shares will last indefinitely--the dominant companies in 1900 are mostly no longer even in existence in any recognizable form, and even the dominant companies in 1950 have mostly been completely replaced by "upstarts." But size does matter, bringing economies of scale, the ability to set and enforce standards, and the ability to withstand competitive onslaughts for longer times (than smaller, less financially solid, companies). >After years of disparagement the theory seems to have >caught on, at least at Justice and with others who oppose the >theory of free market determination of winners and losers. >Arthur argues that market dominance by inferior products >is possible, and cites MS-DOS as an example. Sure, there are many, many "non-optimal" products. Much of society is non-optimal, even in the infrastructure. Roads don't go where they "should," the wrong kind of electrical sockets were adopted, and so on, for examples I don't need to spend time listing. A way of viewing this is of _inertia_ or _sticking friction_. Once certain standars have been set, it is just not possible to roll back history and proceed down another path. For example, it might well be that the world would have been better off using the Motorola 68000 family in places where the Intel x86 dominated (for possibly accidental, local reasons, as anyone who has read the history of IBM's adoption of the x86 knows). And ditto for adoption of a better OS than MS-DOS was (same accidental decision). But we are not in that world, and the installed base of PCs and x86 systems and MS-DOS or Windows systems is so large that it is simply impossible to "jump tracks." Now eventually things will change. Some new paradigm will come along. There is no guarantee that in 2025 the dominant players today will still be dominant. Let's not forget that two years ago many were saying Microsoft would be wiped out by the advent of "Web browsers as operating systems and office suites," with Netscape Navigator being the Swiss army knife of programs. Recall that analysts were sagely predicting that Bill Gates had "missed out" on the Internet. Now we have the spectacle of Netscape demanding that the government give it back its dominant Web position! (Maybe then the University of Illinois can get the DOJ to sue Netscape to take away Netscape's dominant position!) > >Arthur is now a scientist at the Santa Fe Institute. He says >his theory "stands a great deal of economics on its head." >One critic said to Arthur, "If you are right, capitalism can't >work." Which is nonsense. All Brian Arthur has done is to analyze some of the "physics of markets" (my name). Schumpeter said much the same thing when he talked about the "creative destructionism" of capitalism. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: The Sheriff Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 02:00:14 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Spam Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- I've got a question for y'all. Some idiot finally sent me a junk e-mail message that I couldn't do anything about with what I have the knowledge to do -- reading the headers turned up only one ISP, which was apparently owned by the spammer. I'm hoping you guys would know where I could find out more about this individual -- I'm hoping that he does in fact buy his service from someone else, and if so, I'm not sure how to find that out. If he doesn't, is there anything I can do? -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBNLenyABMw4+NR29ZAQHvrgf+NnvFR55ExZrzp2m/XDT5MisT2rem4Hct /okK9HV/DkZJzCsklbqjOrJkEHg96txCPyQ+DKBWatP5ywoaw4O47Tn8udiuDNwI 7DGiFcbYtG5fFHKYzDxM3KWtXbIDn1bliFF80xSoYzYdJKqxCkYPtuaDjasr1EIG iYC9Sm+BQoeFb2n0ptxwB8PsK7Pi5nlf5DCXsIMGrQmcm6GqhgkzC3aNPqNucka4 lyY0YjLnx9WC2JDRrg0Xji1zffC5MiZJrf/1ne9HXylEubWXHh49UdCeAXwyzmDS 5vW7FY2XeQL2OcPOKRVU26eiqnyCxxkx/tLi3yq4yRDt/MfIDHBOuQ== =5oGu -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 02:44:17 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: Freedom Forum report on the State of the First Amendment (fwd) Message-ID: <199801101908.NAA14049@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 13:32:31 -0500 (EST) > From: Jon Galt > Subject: Re: Freedom Forum report on the State of the First Amendment > > On 23 Dec 1997, Colin Rafferty wrote: > > > Oppression is done by a society. It can only be stopped by acting > > against the individuals in the society that are doing the oppressing. > > Well make up your mind! Is it done "by a society" or by "individuals"??? Actualy it's both, societies, their beliefs and actions, are individuals acting in concert. The relationship is identical to that of a tree in a forest. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jon Galt Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 02:40:57 +0800 To: Colin Rafferty Subject: Re: Freedom Forum report on the State of the First Amendment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On 23 Dec 1997, Colin Rafferty wrote: > Oppression is done by a society. It can only be stopped by acting > against the individuals in the society that are doing the oppressing. Well make up your mind! Is it done "by a society" or by "individuals"??? ______________________________________________________________________ Jon Galt e-mail: jongalt@pinn.net website: http://www.pinn.net/~jongalt/ PGP public key available on my website. Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner. ______________________________________________________________________ From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Uhh...this is Joe [Randall Farmer]" Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 04:15:22 +0800 To: The Sheriff Subject: Re: Spam In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > I've got a question for y'all. > > Some idiot finally sent me a junk e-mail message that I couldn't do anything > about with what I have the knowledge to do -- reading the headers turned up > only one ISP, which was apparently owned by the spammer. Well, if it's used only for spam, get it on some block lists. > > I'm hoping you guys would know where I could find out more about this > individual -- I'm hoping that he does in fact buy his service from someone > else, and if so, I'm not sure how to find that out. Well, it's pretty easy to harass or otherwise push someone off of the Net (I guess that's why we've got Eternity servers and anonymous remailers)...do a traceroute and an Internic whois. This will reveal his/her/its/their upstream provider (a hop or two before the end of the traceroute or as a contact on the whois results), among other things. > If he doesn't, is there anything I can do? Well, although I don't think this would be warranted for anything short of an emergency, you could try a more direct DoS attack by hacking, death threats, or DoS Politics, or you could try to get more powerful entities than yourself pissed off at the spammer. Like I said, though, I don't think it's wise to start a Scientology-esque netwar whenever an ISP turns you a deaf ear. Can't imagine being a remailer operator trying to defend against all this, though... --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Randall Farmer rfarmer@hiwaay.net http://hiwaay.net/~rfarmer From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 03:43:19 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Freedom, Starvation, and Uncoerced Relationships (fwd) Message-ID: <199801102007.OAA14257@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 11:15:42 -0800 > From: Tim May > Subject: Freedom, Starvation, and Uncoerced Relationships > >Since when has a crypto anarchist been a market anarchist? > > And how else could it be? Easily. The acceptance of freedom of speech is not equivalent to the acceptance to spend and earn money freely and without regulation. Speech and money are *not* equivalent. This is as specious as Vulis' argument that these positions are equivalent to pregnancy in the logical realm, in short you are or aren't. The reality is that few people, other than statists or extremists look at the world let alone their personal beliefs in that simplistic fashion. I believe in the unregulated exercise of speech, including the dissemination and use of crypto technology. To do otherwise implies some sort of ownership of the individual by the society doing the regulating. Clearly an incorrect conclusion. The ability of those same groups to spend their money as they see fit is not supportable by that same logic. Groups must have regulated monetary systems or else they collapse because of the monopolization and therefore loss of vitality of markets. To believe otherwise is to accept the premise that these monopolies could somehow buy an individuals rights. Clearly a result even a market anarchist can't accept. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 03:46:36 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: The name "Crypto Kong" (fwd) Message-ID: <199801102011.OAA14307@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 11:18:17 -0800 (PST) > From: "James A. Donald" > Subject: The name "Crypto Kong" > I have received some negative feedback about the name > "Crypto Kong". > > Two people have complained that it is unprofessional > sounding. Two people? That's it? > This is not necessarily grounds for alarm. One reason the > name irritates people is that it sticks in the mind like a > bad song, which was of course an important reason for > choosing it. No one is likely to say "Hey, I saw this plug > for some digital signing tool, but I can't remember the > name." When I think of it I think of 'Donkey Kong'. > What do you think? Unless the loss would result in ten's of thousands of dollars of income leave it. If it would effect a large sales market it under a more acceptable name to the business community. Nothing unethical about selling the same product under two different names... ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: John Young Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 03:15:06 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Theory Behind USA v. Microsoft Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980110191251.0101e398@pop.pipeline.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain John Cassidy writes in the January 12 New Yorker mag of the controversial economic theory which undergirds DoJ's antitrust action against Microsoft. He cites a seminal 1984 paper by Brian Arthur, "Competing Technologies and Lock-in by Historical Small Events: The Dynamics of Choice Under Increasing Returns." After years of disparagement the theory seems to have caught on, at least at Justice and with others who oppose the theory of free market determination of winners and losers. Arthur argues that market dominance by inferior products is possible, and cites MS-DOS as an example. Arthur is now a scientist at the Santa Fe Institute. He says his theory "stands a great deal of economics on its head." One critic said to Arthur, "If you are right, capitalism can't work." For those unable to get the magazine, we offer a copy of Cassidy's essay: http://jya.com/arthur.htm (33K) A side note: the same issue has a short piece noting that the early charges of militant conspiracy behind the OKC bombing have disappeared from the trials of McVeigh and Nichols, and proposes that an apology is due militants, militia and other paranoiac targets. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 21:35:27 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Surprise - Anonymous Journalist Opposes Laundering [2/4] Message-ID: <199801101328.OAA07071@basement.replay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Part 2 "Journalistic Secrecy is a Serious Problem" [2/4] [2/4] Taken to the cleaners ["]Un["]fortunately, some of this is not as encouraging as it sounds. For a start, the ["]dirty["] money leaving banks may end up polluting other businesses [MONEY LAUNDERING IS GOOD FOR BUSINESS]. PoLice in Texas say that foreign-exchange bureaux there have been a primary conduit for channelling drug money to and from Mexico. Insurers are also vulnerable. One recent laundering wheeze involves buying single-premium insurance policies with ["]dirty["] money. These are then cashed in early in return for a "clean" cheque from the insurer, or used as collateral for a bank loan. [On the way: Currency Transaction Reports for purchase of insurance policies with cash and Early Redemption Reports for policies held less than 50 years. Insurance agents will be required to report "suspicious" policy holders and report possible "structuring" violations. Then they'll wonder why customers are "shunning" insurance companies.] Even the rising cost of laundering may not be unalloyed good news. It may simply reflect the emergence of a new group of professional launderers who are better at beating the system, and charge more for doing so. [Or as Comrade Clinton would put it, "getting their fair share"] Some poLiceman fear that these experts may soon be using electronic-cash systems to speed up the wash cycle (see box on next page). [See post 4/4] Worse [Better], as old laundering centres close their doors, new ones are opening theirs. The table above [shown below this paragraph] shows the countries that the State Department thinks face a severe money-laundering problem. (Even states with tough anti-laundering rules, such as America and Britain, are listed if their vigilance is considered essential in the global fight against laundering.) The striking thing about the ranking is that it includes islands such as Cyprus, a ["]hive["] of offshore activity for the Russian mafia, and Aruba, a Dutch dependency in the Caribbean, which were not associated with laundering a few years ago. [Translation: Aruba et. al. have always been on their shit list, and now that they've taken out the higher-priority targets e.g. CH and Cayman, the NWO _Microchip Extremists_ are setting their sights on shutting down the lower-yield peripheral sites. (which they've "only just recently discovered" are pro-privacy areas)] Another notable inclusion is Mexico, which the report describes as "the money-laundering haven of choice for initial placement of US currency in the world's financial system". In March, the [criminal] Mexican government unveiled a series of anti-laundering [fig leaf] measures in a belated effort to clean up its reputation. Laundry list "High-priority" laundering centres, March 1997 A B C D Aruba yes . . yes Canada yes yes yes yes Cayman Islands yes yes . yes Colombia yes . . yes Cyprus yes na yes yes [Doesn't indicate differences between Greek and Turkish regs, if any.] Germany yes . . yes Hong Kong yes yes . yes Italy yes yes yes yes Mexico yes . yes . Netherlands yes yes yes yes Netherlands Antilles yes . . yes Nigeria yes . . na Panama . . yes yes Russia . . . . Singapore yes . yes yes Thailand . . . . Turkey . . . . Britain yes yes yes yes United States yes yes yes yes Venezuela yes . yes yes A Banks required (or permitted) to report suspicious transactions. [Communese translation: entry-level bank tellers required (or permitted) to make subjective determinations as to customers' intent and/or state of mind. Required (or permitted) to report people encountered on city streets who may be shunning banks in favor of foreign-exchange houses and cheque-cashing outlets. Development of mind-reading skills mandated by executive order.] B Government permits sharing of seized assets with other governments that assisted the underlying investigation. [Communese translation: Thieves drawing paycheques from extorted proceeds allowed to share stolen goods with accomplices in other jurisdictions. The Legislator/B-Crat/Snitch/Judge motto: "We Know Em When We Seize Um"] C Non-banks must meet same anti-laundering provisions as banks. [Communese translation: The woman with an appearance approximating the Wicked Witch of the West sitting behind the .357 Magnum resistant plastic that slips you 10,000,000 Bongonian bellylints in exchange for 10 euros is also a deputized collectivist agent/informant.] D Financial institutions and employees who provide otherwise confidential data to investigators pursuing authorized investigations are protected from prosecution. [Communese translation: Deputized Government Agents/Informants (that is, anyone with whom you exchange legal tender bank notes, a.k.a. "dirty" money) who provide "otherwise confidential" data so that "authorized investigators" may empty your bank account are not accomplices to looters with sovereign immunity.] Source: US Department of State (International Narcotics Control Strategy Report) [Source: Illegitimate Spawn of Hegel (Global Currency Confiscation Strategy Report)] [Notice again that the less fiscally totalitarian states are those actively engaged in recalling their worthless currencies, forbidding (in theory) their domestic hostages from sending capital abroad, forbidding (in theory) holding gold or using other means of protection from criminal governments, defaulting on foreign loans and various shenanigans in a similar vein. From this it can be concluded that for those on the outside looking in, chronic economic mismanagement and chaos are not necessarily a negative, these areas provide excellent entry points in the "rewire-chain"...] In the future, more Asian countries could be added to the list. Rick McDonell [, looter ], the FATF's representative [of Satan] in Asia, warns that the region is ["]vulnerable["] to laundering because many of its economies are heavily cash-based. [Solution: go hire Jerry Seinfeld, Patrick Stewart and all the other convenience-card whores to shill for the cashless society in Bangkok, Guangzhou and Kuala Lumpur?] Moreover, some countries such as India and Pakistan have large "underground" banking systems which sit alongside official ones [hawala]. Usually based on family or regional networks, these shift large amounts of money [and other stored units of value, e.g. crates of Avtomat Kalashnikova, "illegal" cash crops, RPGs, precious stones] around anonymously and cheaply. [25-28% markup indeed! Forget that rubbish] Such attractions, plus a lack of anti-laundering legislation, have already turned Thailand into a launderers' paradise. A report published last year [yet another report, this journalist needs to get out into the real world, hanging with fiscal bureaucrats and professors is stunting Anon-E-Communists' growth] by Bangkok's Chulalongkorn University put the amount of money washing through the country each year at 730 billion baht ($28.5 billion). This is equivalent to 15% of Thai GDP. [In future watch for the following commercials to be run in these vulnerable-to-laundering cash-based-economy television markets: (Jackie Chan dubbed in various local dialects) Amarakan Sexpress - don weave shantytown witoutit VIZA - accep at FinSEN office wowide MassaCard - it's swave money] > E-Communist > 25 St James's Street > London SW1A 1HG > www.economist.com Fly low S'n'S Pro: Money Laundering, Self-Medication, Militia-Grade Arms, Realism Pro: Indirect Taxation, Adults, Individual Irrevocable Rights } Smurf N Sniff Non-Member, Gunfiscators of Canberra | } P.O. Bunker 6669 "We don't want to be like those paranoid | } Hohoe, Ghana Americans, this is a social DemoBracy." | } fn-fal@edict.gov.un +233 55 1234 boycott GovernMedia NLC | Anti: feral guVermin, Vooters, rapacious tyrants, nihilists Anti: biometric herd management, "(The)" children, state granted privileges From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 07:07:49 +0800 To: Tim May Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801102300.PAA06067@netcom7.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain [scientists] >"Name me one..."? How about Gauss, who didn't publish many of his results. >Or, of course, Fermat, ironically linked to Wiles. the mathematical establishment does not look with favor on Gauss' secrecy. the commentary is generally that it is a shame he was so secret and lost credit for his accomplishments. by the way, I don't agree that publishing is merely about getting credit, although because humans are egotistical, that can be a powerful motivator. as for Fermat, -- I find it interesting you are now mentioning various mathematicians; have never heard you refer to them. Fermat sent letters to many of the great mathematicians of his time, and wouldn't even be known if it weren't for his challenges. his famous theorem was published by his *son* and this amazing gem came close to being lost in all obscurity. >Not to mention Darwin, who sat on his results for almost 20 years, and only >issued a paper and his famed book because he learned another naturalist was >about to announce similar conclusions. in every case you cite, these people eventually published, and science is mostly aware of only their published results. agreed, science does not require that people publish immediately or even in their own lifetime. it does demand that they eventually publish. there are many informative episodes in which people who discovered various scientific principles failed to convey them, or weren't interested in it, and they had to be rediscovered by other scientists. these scientists advanced the knowledge by themselves publishing. science as a way of dealing with data can be practiced in private. this is a feeble form. science in its most potent form, as the *advancement of the human condition* can only be practiced in public. >Publication and, more importantly, discussion and challenge, is often very >important to the advancement of science. But is some cast in stone >requirement? Of course not. bzzzzzzzt. science atrophies without it. it is crucial to science. it is central to it. but I don't wish to be considered an authority on science or a defender of it. it has serious deficiencies as practiced today. >Building an artifact which embodies the science, for example. Exploding an >atom bomb was pretty clearly a demonstration that the science done was >correct, regardless of whether there was "open literature" or not. you refer to science in a narrow sense of merely constructing things. this is not the sense of science that is of crucial importance to humanity as a whole. the atom bomb was in some ways a serious regression of the collective human condition. this is all so easy, refuting Timmy's feeble grasp of science, that I might soon quit. unless I get the sense (which I have a finely honed detector) that his veins are popping, in which case I'll post a few treatises on the subject. p.s. >>I will post soon the list an article demonstrating my >>anger at the betrayal of sound government by a sinister state >>that has hijacked it. > >Have they begun torturing you with the snakes of Medusa yet? > hee, hee. there are many more snakes and conspiracies in politics than there are in all of cyberspace. I've set my sights higher than nailing lame conspiracist wannabes on an obscure mailing list degenerating into the total noise it was always destined for. there are some people that are not merely traitors to their government or various ideals, but to the whole human race. but I'm the first to give credit where it is due. I have always thanked all my enemies profusely for expanding my horizons. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 08:21:40 +0800 To: Blanc Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980108220504.00707df8@cnw.com> Message-ID: <199801110017.QAA10591@netcom7.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >BTW, you should consider that when Einstein proposed the creation of a >bomb, it was within the context of a war being advanced globally by an evil >madman who was gathering every resource to subdue and decimate everything >in his way, and that the rest of the world was desperate for a solution. uh huh, and we stopped him by ... bombing hiroshima AND nagasaki? I think there are greater madmen in the world than their poster boy Hitler who financed his rise.... >Also you should remember that some brilliant people, like Newton, who was a >shy man and didn't necessarily see himself as others did/do, did not care >if anyone else saw the results of his work. bzzzzzzzzzzt, he eventually published at the urging of his friend Halley and then got involved in bitter disputes about credit .. Once he had solved the >problems in his own mind, he was not exceptionally concerned that others >were also struggling with the same, nor whether "the community" needed the >answer. He was pursuing knowledge for reasons of his own. bzzzzzzzzt, I believe he was a member of scientific communities at the time. he also was intensely involved in reforming the government monetary system. as a younger person he was a loner, I agree. hey everyone, go see "wag the dog" and think one nanosecond about the world we live in and how it came to be the way it is.... From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 08:30:08 +0800 To: Tim May Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801110024.QAA10953@netcom7.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > >>Don't be confused by Timy's claim to be a scientist, he is a technologist at >>heart. Many of his views and beliefs are motivated by issues of control *not* >>curiosity. >.... >>You don't know Timmy very well do you... > >Add Choate to the list of dimbulbs who think calling me "Timmy" (or Timy) >is some kind of witty insult. On this list, Detweiler and Vulis seem to >favor this usage. an insult? quite to the contrary, I have always considered it a term of endearment!! From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Gary Harland Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 08:43:47 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Nervous Nellies at the PO Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Came across this by chance...having never heard of this 'disgruntled' web site, I'm curious as to how the PO managed to learn about the offending story...if they fired him because of an explicity fictional article expressing a fantasy shared by vast hordes of Americans then it kind of looks like the Post Office 'went postal' on one of their employees. > DISGRUNTLED POSTAL WORKER > > A South Bay postal worker has been fired for a fictional article he > got published on the Internet, in which he depicted a worker who was > so fed up with conditions in his San Jose office that he pulled out a > gun and shot his dictatorial and much despised supervisor. The article > appeared in December in the on-line publication Disgruntled, which > bills itself as the business magazine for people who work for a > living. > > The story, "Scrooged Again," appeared to have struck a nerve with his > employer, who informed him that he would be removed from his job at > the postal service effective Jan. 27 because of "unacceptable and > disrespectful conduct." > > The Web page site for Disgruntled is: http://www.disgruntled.com > ----------------------------------------------------------------- foggy@netisle.net lat:47d36'32" long:122d20'12" "Rather perish than hate and fear, and twice rather perish than make oneself hated and feared." -F. Nietzche- ----------------------------------------------------------------- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 08:54:28 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 3:00 PM -0800 1/10/98, Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote: >[scientists] >>"Name me one..."? How about Gauss, who didn't publish many of his results. >>Or, of course, Fermat, ironically linked to Wiles. > >the mathematical establishment does not look with favor on Gauss' >secrecy. the commentary is generally that it is a shame he was Doesn't matter how the establishment (whatever that might be) looked on him or not...you challenged me to name _one_ example, and I named several. Oh, and it is not true as you later claim that all of my examples "eventually published" all of their findings. Fermat did not, Gauss did not. My main point has been to refute your notion that any one who elects not to publish in the open literature cannot be a scientist. I know of many scientists who could not publish, or chose not to for various reasons. I mentioned the Manhattan Project scientists. (Choate made some bizarre claim after this mention that all of the science was known in the 20 and 30s, and that no actual science was done by MP "engineers" and "technicians." Might be a surprise to Ulam, Teller, von Neumann, and all the others who worked in secrecy on the atom bomb, then the hydrogen bomb, and so on.) Oh, and what of all the many fine Russian scientists of this century, nearly all restricted in what they could publish? Because they could not submit their work to open publication were they not doing science? The point being that open publication is only a part of the methodology of doing science, and a fairly recent one, too. >as for Fermat, -- I find it interesting you are now mentioning various >mathematicians; have never heard you refer to them. Fermat sent letters I know Detweiler that you hang on my every word, compiling indices of what I and my tentacles have been beaming out to you, but I don't track such trivia about whether or not I have ever mentioned mathematicians. I would asssume I have, as I recall discussing von Neumann, Hadamard, and other mathematicians over the years. But I'll leave it to you to search the archives over the past 5 years.... >hee, hee. >there are many more snakes and conspiracies >in politics than there are in all of cyberspace. You ought to know. --Tim May and his Tentacles The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 00:45:24 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Surprise - Anonymous Journalist Opposes Laundering [3/4] Message-ID: <199801101640.RAA00139@basement.replay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Part 3 "Our Enemy: the Journalist" [3/4] [3/4] Whitewash [The Predictable Agenda Revealed] All these developments suggest that the world's existing ["]defences["] against ["]dirty["] money are ["]inadequate["]. [And we all know what their definition of "adequate" would be.] [*]Banking secrecy is a serious problem[*]. As the table shows, bankers in a number of "high-priority" centres can still be prosecuted [heaven forbid!] if they hand over confidential information to officials investigating laundering cases. [So, absent probable cause that a _real_ crime has been committed, "officials" must be allowed to engage in fishing expeditions without repercussion. Therefore, we must give these "officials" carte blanche access to: 1) private (actually public) bank data. 2) safe deposit boxes (send a spare key to FATF when you rent a box). 3) private records (unrecoverable encryption made a felony). 4) physical warrantless searches of "suspected currency smugglers" (on the spot or no-knock). Carte Blanche access is the ultimate goal. All done "confidentially" you understand. I won't tell the victim if you don't. And people would wonder why I don't have a domestic bank account.] It also shows that several of these centres have yet to extend their anti-laundering regimes to cover non-bank financial institutions. [the operative word being _yet_.] No wonder some financial poLiceman claim they are being asked to fight laundrymen with one hand tied behind their backs. [a straightjacket and possibly rope + oak tree would be appropriate ] As if that were not bad [good] enough, the current approach to tackling the [non-]problem of onshore and offshore laundering havens is flawed, too. The FATF has done some useful work, [like what exactly?] but it has not been tough enough with slowcoaches. It only censured Turkey several years after it became a member. [Turkey should tell this ATF to go take a flying leap] And it has yet to take action against Austria, another member, which still has anonymous savings accounts [which due to their membership in the reconstituted Holy Roman Empire they will eventually sell out or at best phase out with grandfather clauses] for its citizens [and many non-citizens as well, leave our Sparbuchen alone thank you very much] despite an FATF [*]edict[*] banning anonymity. [A most curious use of language: "despite an edict banning anonymity". And just who is it that supposedly granted FATF the authority to issue _edicts_ (as in dictate, force, coerce) or _ban_ a single goddamn thing?! Apparently a collective "hive" of enthroned, unaccountable, power-usurping bureaucrats are justifying their existence by rendering decisions "for" the little people and sees itself fit to spew forth proclamations unbeknownst to many under imaginary authority it has granted unto itself. How very regal of them. Is said edict (banning anon accounts) an example of the "useful work" this _anonymous_ journalist refers to? The irony is delicious. Does this represent the type of government-by-edict rule that he/she/it finds so agreeable? Perhaps she-he-it spends too much time attending WTO meetings and schmoozing with those-who-know-better to discuss the latest nuances of negotiated edict proclamations. You (anonymous, E-Communist writer) need to get out more, buckwheat. How about putting this edict thingy up for a vote of the Austrian people? An antiquated idea I realize but it would give you and your associates an opportunity to further propagandize the great unwashed to the cause of Total State Control. OTOH, then these aspiring fiscal tyrants would have to crawl out of their committee meetings and explain to the rabble why it is so urgent that private banking be abolished (confidentially, of course). Besides which, owners of anonymous accounts like them just the way they are and would find another way to keep their property out of your greedy little paws regardless (even if you did somehow manage to convince 50.0001% of the vooters to help you fight non-crime. "We" don't have to show you no steeenkin' passport).] Some anti-laundering campaigners say that criticism of members in evaluation reports is often watered down for diplomatic reasons [how can an evaluation be watered down when it starts with zero substance?]. "Every report was put through so many whitewashes", complains Sue Thornhill, [parasite, ] a consultant on laundering to the British Bankers Association. The FATF's fans [such as they are outside the GovernMedia sphere of influence] admit that some plea-bargaining goes on, but insist that it does not let countries off lightly. [What is this utter nonsense: "plea-bargaining" (?) "does not let countries off lightly" (?) Are representatives of "guilty" nations hauled off to some FATF Star Chamber and forced to perform lewd acts with smart cards?!?] Whatever the truth, [the truth being that money laundering is not a crime; acknowledgment of which would run counter to your basic philosophical premise and thus be dismissed as extremist libertarian kookery] there is an even bigger problem with the task force's approach [the problem is the existence of FATF and other agencies of its ilk]. Every time it persuades a financial centre [against it's best interests] to crack down on laundering, crooks will move to new ones [as would any normal person who places a value on customer service]. As the amount of money that comes with them grows, so the incentive for these other havens to change their ways will dimish. [until they become fat and happy like Helvetia, then they begin to evidence a strange desire to look 'respectable' in front of the 'world community' and now readily strap on the knee-pads for their pimp: the United States] The FATF seems to be hoping that peer-group pressure is the solution. [Oh yeah? Just because your friends have abolished (de facto) bank secrecy and have ceased jailing informants and foreign moles does that mean you're going to do it as well? What would your mother say about that?] It has set up a regional Caribbean task [tax] force and is ["]supporting["] the creation of an Asia-Pacific anti-laundering group. [picture an enterprising cretin at FATF calling some string-puller over at the IMF: 'Tell them to give us all the access we want to foreign account holder data or else no more taxpayer coerced bailout for you Asians'...] But even if this attempt to sign up new members works, such an approach will take a long time. And there is a danger that many members will sign up to get the FATF's badge of respectability [and the cushy do-nothing jobs that go along with it for political hacks and career bureaucrats], and then drag their feet over implementing its recommendations. [confusing, are they _edicts_ or _recommendations_ ?] So are economic sanctions against refuseniks the answer? The sort of "economic warfare" envisaged by Senator Kerry is not. Banning citizen[-hostage]s of a few rich countries from dealing with known laundromats would hurt legitimate businesses, while crafty launderers would find ways round the restrictions. [Senator Kerry, (Looter-Taxachusetts): "Yeah right, that's a wimpy apologetic journalist pretending to present both sides of an issue, let's get real here, no _legitimate_ business would need to have an Aruban bank account when our local S&L offers backup withholding, full disclosure on request to any and all government employees, demands for SSN's and fingerprints, deposit insurance and CTRs, in short all the protection and benefits the surveillance state has to offer. So those who have the mistaken notion that all assets DO NOT belong to the state and DO NOT submit to the fact that those assets they are trying to keep from our grasp belong TO US and are only on temporary loan to individual shee, um, people need to be set straight and made an example of. I say we must pull another Panama and invade these small narco-terrorist haven countries and shut all their banks down permanently. If citizens of these pathetic excuses for states want a bank account, our good Bwoston banks are more than happy to serve them."] That leaves Mr Tanzi's proposed strategy as the only current proposal with something to recommend it. Of course, getting an international agreement on minimum anti-laundering standards will not be an easy task. But it is worth a try. For without a concerted global response [= global surveillance of every transaction = dictatorial global bureaucracies] to the problem of ["]dirty["] money, the world's money-laundering machine will be off on yet another devastating [to whom?] cycle. [Summary: Banking secrecy is a serious problem. Unreported asset possession is a serious problem. Non-governmental ComSec is a serious problem. Non-intelligence-agency laundering is a serious problem. Anonymous ownership transfers are a serious problem. Unreported cash transactions are a serious problem. Cash is a serious problem. Teenage fucking is a serious problem. Non-alcohol, non-prescription drug consumption is a serious problem. Contraband smuggling is a serious problem. The emerging e-cash threat is a serious problem. Anonymous accounts are a serious problem. Bearer shares are a serious problem. Multiple identities are a serious problem. Unregistered gun ownership is a serious problem. Inadequate government staffing is a serious problem. Inadequate international cooperation is a serious problem. Inadequate tax revenue is a serious problem. Freedom is a serious problem. Unacceptable. These activities will be stopped. You will be assimilated. These FATF swine need a good ass-kicking.] > E-Communist > 25 St James's Street > London SW1A 1HG > www.economist.com Fly Low S'n'S Pro:__Money Laundering__Self Medication__Militia Grade Arms__Realism________ __Indirect Taxation___________Adults___________Individual Irrevocable Right$ } Smurf N Sniff Non-Member, Gunfiscators of Canberra | } P.O. Bunker 6669 "We don't want to be like those paranoid | } Hohoe, Ghana Americans, this is a social DemoBracy." | } fn-fal@edict.gov.un +233 55 1234 boycott GovernMedia NLC | ANTI:_feral guVermin____Vooters__________blue hellmutts______nihilists______ __biometric herd management__"(The) children"__state granted privilege_____!--------------------------------------------------------------------------- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 00:45:19 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Surprise - Anonymous Journalist Opposes Laundering [4/4] Message-ID: <199801101641.RAA00151@basement.replay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Part 4 "Fighting the Next War" [4/4] [4/4] Next, cyberlaundering? If there is one thing that money launderers hate it is cash; physical cash, that is [No, we hate criminal governments who refuse to issue larger denomination notes]. Shipping huge wads of banknotes is a logistical nightmare [which would be less onerous if, by way of example, the US guVermin recirculated $500, $1000, $5000 and $10,000 FRNs. The printing plates for such "money-laundering friendly" notes having been de-activated since the reign of dictator Roosevelt; refusal to issue higher denomination FRNs to keep pace with Accumulated Wealth Tax extractions (commonly referred to as "inflation") since the 1930s is nothing less than slow-motion, backdoor currency recall]. It also raises the risk that couriers will be intercepted [they mean robbed] and the ["]loot["] traced back to its source. Transferring money electronically is both quicker and easier [but not necessarily safer in certain nations]. [*]Hence concerns in law-enforcement circles that new forms of electronic money could render obsolete traditional methods of tracking ["]tainted["] money, which rely heavily on the poLicing of bank transactions[*]. ["Hence concerns in law-evasion circles that new forms of vooter sanity threatening to outlaw drug Prohibition could render obsolete traditional streams of tax-free income."] ["Hence concerns in law-enforcement circles that new forms of vooter sanity threatening to outlaw drug Prohibition could render obsolete traditional pretexts for increased budgets, privacy deprivation and sheeple tracking."] Electronic-money systems come in three different forms. There are stored-value cards, which allow customers to load money onto a microchip-bearing piece of plastic. This can then be carried around like a credit card. There are computer-based systems, for example, those involving payments over the Internet. and there is talk of hybrid systems, which allow smart cards and network-based payments to work together. Although these new gizmos are still under development, financial regulators and policemen have been studying them intently. And they have raised several questions to which they want answers. One is whether limits will be placed on value that can be held on chip-bearing cards. A card without a limit "could break my back", [then there would be no need for a tree] worries Stanley Morris, [the anti-christ, ] who heads FINCEN, the American government's financial-intelligence unit [FiU]. He thinks launderers could use it to shift millions of dollars on a piece of plastic. The anti-laundering brigade [brigands?!] also wants reassurance that crooks will not be able to set themselves up as e-money issuers. [I guess as opposed to the crooks who set themselves up as fiat banknote issuers] And they want to know whether all transactions in whatever system will be logged at a central point, so that investigators can reconstruct an [unencrypted??] electronic audit trail ["]if necessary["]. [B.S., they don't "want reassurance" or "want to know" squat, this is their non-negotiable DEMAND; they will try to rob, kidnap, jail, and murder anyone who thinks different] At least one card-based system currently being developed by Mondex, a company owned by Master-Card, [MassaCard] is designed to allow money to be transferred directly between cards, without leaving such a trail. DigiCash, which is developing a computer-based payment system, is using what it calls a "one-way privacy" method, which allows payers to check who received money from them, but does not allow the recipients to find out where it came from. [as in a postal money order (but sans the silly $700 per m.o. limit and the ridiculous $2999.99 daily limit) sent to a payee anonymously] While these and other issues, such as who will have jurisdiction over laundering on the Internet, [I smell a brand new Global Bureaucracy in the air] suggest the new systems could cause the authorities a few headaches, some experts beg to differ. A report published last year by the Bank for International Settlements, [another report cited, another worthle$$ bureaucracy, amazing isn't it?] the central bankers' central bank, [in other words, a den of iniquity] noted that in most cases, measures designed to protect the new systems against fraud--such as attaching unique electronic serial numbers to transactions--would make them less attractive for criminal activities than many existing payment systems. At the moment, all financial regulators can do is watch and wait. > E-Communist > 25 St James's Street > London SW1A 1HG > www.economist.com [Remember if you do your banking in a socialist country, there are three parties involved in any transaction: 1) you, the presumed criminal. 2) the (non-)bank employee, snitch/narc/mind-reader. 3) the guVermin employee, looter/thief/spy.] Fly Low S'n'S Pro: Money Laundering, Self-Medication, Militia-Grade Arms, Realism Pro: Indirect Taxation, Adults, Individual Irrevocable Rights } Smurf N Sniff Non-Member, Gunfiscators of Canberra | } P.O. Bunker 6669 "We don't want to be like those paranoid | } Hohoe, Ghana Americans, this is a social DemoBracy." | } fn-fal@edict.gov.un +233 55 1234 boycott GovernMedia NLC | Anti: feral guVermin, Vooters, rapacious tyrants, nihilists Anti: biometric herd management, "(The)" children, state granted privileges From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Steve Schear Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 07:15:32 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: GPS Jamming [FWD] Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I think this might have been mentioned in a CP thread sometime back. At least it should have ;-) --------------- Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 22:29:14 +0000 From: "Marcus L. Rowland" Subject: GPS Jamming *New Scientist* (8 Jan 1998, http://www.newscientist.com) included an article saying that a Russian company called Aviaconversia was offering a 4-watt GPS/Glonass jammer for less than $4000 at the September Moscow Air Show. It says that it could stop civilian aircraft locking onto GPS signals over a 200 Km radius; military aircraft would be harder to jam, but a more powerful unit could be built. The risks (terrorism etc.) are fairly obvious, and it's mentioned that it would probably be easy to build one even if this company's product is somehow removed from the market. Marcus L. Rowland http://www.ffutures.demon.co.uk/ ------------- GPS uses a wideband Direct Sequence Spread Rectum technology. DSSS, as implemented in GSP, is excellent for distance an direction finding due to its inherent, very accurate, time base. In order to conserve satellite power and provide a reasonable signal level at small (e.g., handheld) receivers, it spreads a low data rate signal over wide band, achieving a 63dB 'process gain' (equivalent to about a 2 million fold increase in receive signal level). DSSS signals (in general) can be jammed by very narrow (e.g., CW or continuous wave) carriers, especially pulsed, with relatively modest power. GPS includes significant provisions for anti-jam and although I haven't done a detailed analysis, I'd be surprised if a 4-watt transmitter would render a 200 km radius unfit for GPS navigation. See "Spread Spectrum Communications Handbook," ISBN 0-07-057629-7. --Steve PGP mail preferred, see http://www.pgp.com and http://web.mit.edu/network/pgp.html RSA fingerprint: FE90 1A95 9DEA 8D61 812E CCA9 A44A FBA9 RSA key: http://keys.pgp.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=index&search=0x55C78B0D --------------------------------------------------------------------- Steve Schear | tel: (702) 658-2654 CEO | fax: (702) 658-2673 Lammar Laboratories | 7075 West Gowan Road | Suite 2148 | Las Vegas, NV 89129 | Internet: schear@lvdi.net --------------------------------------------------------------------- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 11:03:19 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: area 51, enviro crime, secrecy==abuse? Message-ID: <199801110257.SAA20519@netcom13.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Environment of Secrecy A lawsuit alleges environmental crimes at the country's most secret military base Amicus Journal, Spring 1997, a publication of the National Resources Defense Council by Malcom Howard August, 1994: Standing atop a desert ridge in central Nevada, Glenn Campbell peers through binoculars at a remote duster of buildings in the valley below. "It's the most famous secret militaryfacility in the world," he says. The scattering of airplane hangars and radar dishes below, barely visible through the haze, is a secluded Air Force test facility known as Area 51-- or, more fancifully, "Dreamland"-- that is believed to have launched the most sophisticated Cold War aircraft, from supersonic spy planes to the radar-evading Stealth bomber. Campbell has made a mini-industry of showing off this clandestine outpost, built on a barren pancake of alkali just inside the Air Force's restricted Nellis Gunnery Range north of Las Vegas. His self-published tour book describes how to get a stealthy, yet fully legal, view of Area 51. Tourists pass electronic sensors on the road and watch helicopters patrol above, and are tailed by men in unmarked white jeeps who train high-powered video cameras on their every move. Though Campbell's tour stays entirely on public land, once on the ridge his clients stand only yards from the Area 51 boundary. Signs prohibiting photography and warn that "use of deadlyforce" is authorized against trespassers. These days, Glenn Campbell's not-for-profit tour business has fallen on hard times. In 1995, the Air Force all but shut him down: it seized the 4,500 acres of public land where Campbell's customers used to get their best views. The move demonstrates just how touchy the Air Force is about this military sanctum sanctorum-- since, in order to close out a few ragtag sightseers, it inevitably whipped up a storm of speculation among the conspiracy buffs, tabloid press, UFO trackers, aviation hounds, and government accountability activists who are fascinated by Dreamland. One can only imagine, then, the consternation in the upper ranks of the Air Force when four former Area 51 employees and widows of two others brought their now celebrated lawsuit, alleging that the secrecy surrounding the site had been used to commit and then cover up environmental crimes. "My husband came home one day screaming," says Helen Frost, whose late husband, Robert, was a sheet- metal worker at Area 51. "He was screaming, 'My face is on fire.' His face was bright red and swollen up like a basketball. Then he got three- inch scars on his back. A year later, he died." In 1990, the year after Frost's death, a posthumous worker's compensation hearing found that the liver disease that killed him stemmed from heavy drinking, not toxic industrial chemicals. But Helen Frost disputes that finding. She points to testimony from a Rutgers University chemist who found high levels of dioxins and dibenzofurans in her husband's tissue. Those extremely dangerous chemicals, wrote Dr. Peter Kahn-- best known for his role in the Agent Orange commission-- were likely the result of industrial exposure. Helen Frost and her co-plaintiffs filed the original lawsuit in 1994, alleging that the military and its contractors regularly and illegally burned huge volumes of toxic waste in the desert, exposing workers to dangerous fumes. Defense contractors from the Los Angeles area, they claimed, routinely trucked 55-gallon drums full of paints and solvents into Area 51. Employees would dig large trenches, toss in the drums, spray on jet fuel, and finally light the toxic soup with a flare. The plaintiffs named the Department of Defense, the National Security Agency, and the Air Force in the suit, charging that they allowed the burning in violation of the Resource Conservation and Recovery Act (RCRA), the nation's keystone hazardous waste law. In a parallel suit, they charged the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) with failing to inspect and monitor waste disposal at the facility, as RCRA requires. The plaintiffs have said that many other Area 51 workers are suffering from ailments similar to Frost's. They do not seek damages-- just information about what chemicals they were exposed to, help with their medical bills, and an end to the burning. The extreme secrecy shrouding Area 51 has turned the lawsuit into something out of a Cold War spy novel, replete with sealed motions, confidential hearings, blacked-out docket sheets, and classified briefings. "We're in the rather unenviable position of suing a facility that doesn't exist, on behalf of workers who don't officially exist," says Jonathan Turley, the George Washington University law professor who is representing the plaintiffs. The existence of the workers is fairly straightforward: because they took secrecy oaths in order to work at Dreamland, they fear recrimination for going to court, and so the judge has allowed them to sue anonymously. But the existence of Area 51 is more problematic. The base is absent from even the most detailed defense flight charts. Ask the Air Force communications office about the facility, and a spokesman will read from a script: "There is an operating location in the vicinity of Groom Dry Lake. Some specific activities conducted on the Nellis Range both past and present remain classified and can't be discussed." In court, the Air Force tactics have been just as convoluted. In the early days of the lawsuit, argued before U.S. District Court Judge Phillip M. Pro, much of the contention centered on the Air Force's refusal to name the place at issue. The plaintiffs have all sworn that they worked at a facility called "Area 51," and Turley has introduced evidence, such as his clients' employee-evaluation forms and various government documents, that refer to the site as "Area 51." Air Force lawyers, however, have said that naming the base would undermine national security, because enemy powers could make valuable inferences from any verified names. In response, the plaintiffs accused the Air Force of cynically invoking national security in order to wriggle out from under the evidence that illegal practices were going on at a place called "Area 51." After all, Turley argued in court, "If the defendants confirmed 'Area 51' is often used to identify this facility, a foreign power would be no more educated as to [the facility's] operations than their previous knowledge, derived in no small part by the defendants' own public statements." But the name of the facility was only the first of a barrage of secrecy arguments the plaintiffs have faced. Throughout pretrial proceedings, Air Force lawyers repeatedly invoked the military and state secrets privilege, a rarely used tenet of common law that allows the executive branch to withhold information from trial if its disclosure might jeopardize U.S. soldiers or diplomatic relations. To support the claim, Air Force Secretary Sheila Widnall submitted two afffidavits, one public and one for the judge's eyes only, in which she argued that any environmental review of the facility entered into the record could educate foreign powers about U.S. military technology. "Collection of information regarding air, water, and soil is a classic foreign intelligence practice because analysis of these samples can result in the identification of military operations and capabilities," Widnall wrote. Turley-- himself a former staff member of the National Security Agency-- believes that the Air Force is improperly using the military secrets privilege to hamstring his case. Most of the chemicals burned at Area 51, he says, were standard solvents, paints, and the Like that are found at any aircraft production facility. If sensitive data did emerge, such as traces of the chemicals used in the radar-blunting coat of the Stealth fighter, they could simply be stricken from the record. Whatever the case, so far the tactics of the Air Force have largely prevailed. True, the plaintiffs have changed the course of environmental policy at the base; because of their suit, the Justice Department has launched a criminal investigation into the charges on EPA's behalf, and EPA has conducted the first hazardous waste inventory of Area 51. But that inventory remains off limits to the plaintiffs, even though RCRA requires EPA to make such documents public because Judge Pro ruled that the president could grant a special exemption for national security reasons. RCRA has always allowed a president to create this kind of exemption; what is unusual about this case is that the judge allowed a president to do so after allegations of environmental crime had already emerged. And the exemption was duly granted: late in 1995, President Clinton signed an executive order exempting Area 51 "from any Federal, State, interstate or local provision respecting ... hazardous waste disposal that would require the disclosure of classified information ... to any unauthorized person." In the wake of the president's intervention, in the spring of 1996 Judge Pro dismissed the main case against the Pentagon on national security grounds. Turley has appealed the ruling to the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals. To date, the court has not issued a ruling. In some senses, the lawsuit is unique: there is only one Area 51. The military has dozens of other restricted bases where highly secret weapons tests are carried out-- but, to the best of any civilian's knowledge, all of these sites are already listed on EPA's dockets. Environmental information about standard military bases is freely available. In general, says NRDC nuclear arms expert Stan Norris, the Air Force's behavior in the Area 51 case is "not representative of the Department of Defense. They're not naturally secretive in [the environmental] area." Compared to the environmental traditions of the Department of Energy-- which opened up information on its nuclear weapons production sites only after years of public pressure and lawsuits-- when it comes to the Department, Norris says, "We're awash in information." But Turley and other students of military secrecy believe that at issue in the Area 51 case is a bedrock principle. "In the end, this case can be boiled down to one question," says Turley "Can the Department of Defense create secret enclaves that are essentially removed from all civilian laws and responsibilities?" Borrowed from English common law, the military and state secrets privilege is as old as the nation itself. Ever since Aaron Burr stood trial for treason in 1807, the executive branch has, from time to time, sought to block information in civil and criminal trials. In Burr's case, the government refused to release letters written by one of Thomas Jefferson's generals. The defendant swore the letters would clear his name, but federal lawyers argued that the private notes "might contain state secrets, which could not be divulged without endangering the national safety." The secrecy powers were used most heavily during the Cold War, when military and intelligence agencies sought to hide technology from the Soviets and protect eavesdropping methods used against civilian activists. The Dreamland litigation, however, marks the first time the military and state secrets privilege has been invoked in a civil suit over toxic waste. It represents a fundamental clash between the demands of national security, in which stealth is an asset, and the right of public scrutiny that is at the core of U.S. environmental laws. National security and environmental law scholars take a keen interest in the case. "It seems to me that specific details of weapons programs can properly be held secret," comments Kate Martin, director of the Center for National Security Studies, which litigated some of the key state secrets cases of the 1980s. "The question is, is secrecy being used as a way of of avoiding accountability, compliance with environmental law, or worker-safety standards?" Others see such speculation as both paranoid and naive. "Just because the Soviet Union is no longer around doesn't mean we don't need to keep secrets," says Kathleen Buck, former Pentagon general counsel for President Reagan. She argues that, since President Clinton's defense review revealed continued threats of ballistic missile attack, nuclear proliferation, rogue states, and terrorist cells, secrecy is a strategic advantage the United States still needs. "But we have to make sure that in building up the national defense, we don't destroy the very thing we're trying to protect," objects Steve Dycus, professor of national security and environmental law at Vermont Law School. A victory for the Pentagon over Area 51, he believes, could frustrate EPA's efforts to enforce environmental laws at sensitive military sites-- and the Pentagon, with more than a hundred active Superfund sites, is considered by many to be among America's worst polluters. Moreover, a military victory could have a chilling effect on other military employees who find themselves considering the difficult act of whistleblowing. After all, Dycus notes, RCRA is designed in part to enlist the help of citizens and states in enforcing environmental protection. While scholars debate policy, the employees of Area 51 wait for justice. The Air Force denies the charge of illegal burning, and Judge Pro dismissed the lawsuit without deciding on its substantive charges; so the plaintiffs have no answers to their questions about the painful skin disorders they say they suffer from. And, unless their appeal to the Ninth Circuit is granted, President Clinton's exemption precludes them from obtaining any information about what they might have been exposed to. Ironically, that exemption was made public the same day Clinton announced that the government would compensate victims of nuclear radiation experiments. "Our greatness is measured not only in how we so frequently do right," he said, "but also how we act when we have done the wrong thing." Has the United States done the wrong thing at Area 51? Without some kind of break in the intense secrecy that surrounds the place, the public has no way of knowing. To Glenn Campbell, who has made it his life's work to inform Americans about Area 51, the existence of this level of concealment-- and the lack of accountability that comes with it-- are cause for suspicion. "The military is the only governmental branch that has the prerogative to keep things secret from the public," he says. "The problem is, where there's excessive secrecy, there's usually abuse." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 09:05:03 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com Subject: Gauss.html Message-ID: <199801110130.TAA15141@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain JOHANN CARL FRIEDRICH GAUSS _________________________________________________________________ Born: 30 April 1777 in Brunswick, Duchy of Brunswick (now Germany) Died: 23 Feb 1855 in Göttingen, Hanover (now Germany) [LINK] Show birthplace location Previous (Chronologically) Next Biographies Index Previous (Alphabetically) Next Welcome page _________________________________________________________________ Carl Friedrich Gauss worked in a wide variety of fields in both mathematics and physics incuding number theory, analysis, differential geometry, geodesy, magnetism, astronomy and optics. His work has had an immense influence in many areas. At the age of seven, Carl Friedrich started elementary school, and his potential was noticed almost immediately. His teacher, Büttner, and his assistant, Martin Bartels, were amazed when Gauss summed the integers from 1 to 100 instantly by spotting that the sum was 50 pairs of numbers each pair summing to 101. In 1788 Gauss began his education at the Gymnasium with the help of Büttner and Bartels, where he learnt High German and Latin. After receiving a stipend from the Duke of Brunswick- Wolfenbüttel, Gauss entered Brunswick Collegium Carolinum in 1792. At the academy Gauss independently discovered Bode's law, the binomial theorem and the arithmetic- geometric mean, as well as the law of quadratic reciprocity and the prime number theorem. In 1795 Gauss left Brunswick to study at Göttingen University. Gauss's teacher there was Kaestner, whom Gauss often ridiculed. His only known friend amongst the students was Farkas Bolyai. They met in 1799 and corresponded with each other for many years. Gauss left Göttingen in 1798 without a diploma, but by this time he had made one of his most important discoveries - the construction of a regular 17-gon by ruler and compasses This was the most major advance in this field since the time of Greek mathematics and was published as Section VII of Gauss's famous work, Disquisitiones Arithmeticae . Gauss returned to Brunswick where he received a degree in 1799. After the Duke of Brunswick had agreed to continue Gauss's stipend, he requested that Gauss submit a doctoral dissertation to the University of Helmstedt. He already knew Pfaff, who was chosen to be his advisor. Gauss's dissertation was a discussion of the fundamental theorem of algebra. With his stipend to support him, Gauss did not need to find a job so devoted himself to research. He published the book Disquisitiones Arithmeticae in the summer of 1801. There were seven sections, all but the last section, referred to above, being devoted to number theory. In June 1801, Zach, an astronomer whom Gauss had come to know two or three years previously, published the orbital positions of Ceres, a new "small planet" which was discovered by G Piazzi, an Italian astronomer on 1 January, 1801. Unfortunately, Piazzi had only been able to observe 9 degrees of its orbit before it disappeared behind the Sun. Zach published several predictions of its position, including one by Gauss which differed greatly from the others. When Ceres was rediscovered by Zach on 7 December 1801 it was almost exactly where Gauss had predicted. Although he did not disclose his methods at the time, Gauss had used his least squares approximation method. In June 1802 Gauss visited Olbers who had discovered Pallas in March of that year and Gauss investigated its orbit. Olbers requested that Gauss be made director of the proposed new observatory in Göttingen, but no action was taken. Gauss began corresponding with Bessel, whom he did not meet until 1825, and with Sophie Germain. Gauss married Johanna Ostoff on 9 October, 1805. Despite having a happy personal life for the first time, his benefactor, the Duke of Brunswick, was killed fighting for the Prussian army. In 1807 Gauss left Brunswick to take up the position of director of the Göttingen observatory. Gauss arrived in Göttingen in late 1807. In 1808 his father died, and a year later Gauss's wife Johanna died after giving birth to their second son, who was to die soon after her. Gauss was shattered and wrote to Olbers asking him give him a home for a few weeks, to gather new strength in the arms of your friendship - strength for a life which is only valuable because it belongs to my three small children. Gauss was married for a second time the next year, to Minna the best friend of Johanna, and although they had three children, this marriage seemed to be one of convenience for Gauss. Gauss's work never seemed to suffer from his personal tragedy. He published his second book, Theoria motus corporum coelestium in sectionibus conicis Solem ambientium, in 1809, a major two volume treatise on the motion of celestial bodies. In the first volume he discussed differential equations, conic sections and elliptic orbits, while in the second volume, the main part of the work, he showed how to estimate and then to refine the estimation of a planet's orbit. Gauss's contributions to theoretical astronomy stopped after 1817, although he went on making observations until the age of 70. Much of Gauss's time was spent on a new observatory, completed in 1816, but he still found the time to work on other subjects. His publications during this time include Disquisitiones generales circa seriem infinitam , a rigorous treatment of series and an introduction of the hypergeometric function, Methodus nova integralium valores per approximationem inveniendi , a practical essay on approximate integration, Bestimmung der Genauigkeit der Beobachtungen , a discussion of statistical estimators, and Theoria attractionis corporum sphaeroidicorum ellipticorum homogeneorum methodus nova tractata . The latter work was inspired by geodesic problems and was principally concerned with potential theory. In fact, Gauss found himself more and more interested in geodesy in the 1820's. Gauss had been asked in 1818 to carry out a geodesic survey of the state of Hanover to link up with the existing Danish grid. Gauss was pleased to accept and took personal charge of the survey, making measurements during the day and reducing them at night, using his extraordinary mental capacity for calculations. He regularly wrote to Schumacher, Olbers and Bessel, reporting on his progress and discussing problems. Because of the survey, Gauss invented the heliotrope which worked by reflecting the Sun's rays using a design of mirrors and a small telescope. However, inaccurate base lines were used for the survey and an unsatisfactory network of triangles. Gauss often wondered if he would have been better advised to have pursued some other occupation but he published over 70 papers between 1820 and 1830. In 1822 Gauss won the Copenhagen University Prize with Theoria attractionis... together with the idea of mapping one surface onto another so that the two are similar in their smallest parts . This paper was published in 1825 and led to the much later publication of Untersuchungen über Gegenstände der Höheren Geodäsie (1843 and 1846). The paper Theoria combinationis observationum erroribus minimis obnoxiae (1823), with its supplement (1828), was devoted to mathematical statistics, in particular to the least squares method. From the early 1800's Gauss had an interest in the question of the possible existence of a non-Euclidean geometry. He discussed this topic at length with Farkas Bolyai and in his correspondence with Gerling and Schumacher. In a book review in 1816 he discussed proofs which deduced the axiom of parallels from the other Euclidean axioms, suggesting that he believed in the existence of non-Euclidean geometry, although he was rather vague. Gauss confided in Schumacher, telling him that he believed his reputation would suffer if he admitted in public that he believed in the existence of such a geometry. In 1831 Farkas Bolyai sent to Gauss his son János Bolyai's work on the subject. Gauss replied to praise it would mean to praise myself . Again, a decade later, when he was informed of Lobachevsky's work on the subject, he praised its "genuinely geometric" character, while in a letter to Schumacher in 1846, states that he had the same convictions for 54 years indicating that he had known of the existence of a non-Euclidean geometry since he was 15 years of age (this seems unlikely). Gauss had a major interest in differential geometry, and published many papers on the subject. Disquisitiones generales circa superficies curva (1828) was his most renowned work in this field. In fact, this paper rose from his geodesic interests, but it contained such geometrical ideas as Gaussian curvature. The paper also includes Gauss's famous theorema egregrium: If an area in E ^3 can be developed (i.e. mapped isometrically) into another area of E ^3 , the values of the Gaussian curvatures are identical in corresponding points. The period 1817-1832 was a particularly distressing time for Gauss. He took in his sick mother in 1817, who stayed until her death in 1839, while he was arguing with his wife and her family about whether they should go to Berlin. He had been offered a position at Berlin University and Minna and her family were keen to move there. Gauss, however, never liked change and decided to stay in Göttingen. In 1831 Gauss's second wife died after a long illness. In 1831, Wilhelm Weber arrived in Göttingen as physics professor filling Tobias Mayer's chair. Gauss had known Weber since 1828 and supported his appointment. Gauss had worked on physics before 1831, publishing Uber ein neues allgemeines Grundgesetz der Mechanik , which contained the principle of least constraint, and Principia generalia theoriae figurae fluidorum in statu aequilibrii which discussed forces of attraction. These papers were based on Gauss's potential theory, which proved of great importance in his work on physics. He later came to believe his potential theory and his method of least squares provided vital links between science and nature. In 1832, Gauss and Weber began investigating the theory of terrestrial magnetism after Alexander von Humboldt attempted to obtain Gauss's assistance in making a grid of magnetic observation points around the Earth. Gauss was excited by this prospect and by 1840 he had written three important papers on the subject: Intensitas vis magneticae terrestris ad mensuram absolutam revocata (1832), Allgemeine Theorie des Erdmagnetismus (1839) and Allgemeine Lehrsätze in Beziehung auf die im verkehrten Verhältnisse des Quadrats der Entfernung wirkenden Anziehungs- und Abstossungskräfte (1840). These papers all dealt with the current theories on terrestrial magnetism, including Poisson's ideas, absolute measure for magnetic force and an empirical definition of terrestrial magnetism. Dirichlet's principal was mentioned without proof. Allgemeine Theorie... showed that there can only be two poles in the globe and went on to prove an important theorem, which concerned the determination of the intensity of the horizontal component of the magnetic force along with the angle of inclination. Gauss used the Laplace equation to aid him with his calculations, and ended up specifying a location for the magnetic South pole. Humboldt had devised a calendar for observations of magnetic declination. However, once Gauss's new magnetic observatory (completed in 1833 - free of all magnetic metals) had been built, he proceeded to alter many of Humboldt's procedures, not pleasing Humboldt greatly. However, Gauss's changes obtained more accurate results with less effort. Gauss and Weber achieved much in their six years together. They discovered Kirchhoff's laws, as well as building a primitive telegraph device which could send messages over a distance of 5000 ft. However, this was just an enjoyable pastime for Gauss. He was more interested in the task of establishing a world-wide net of magnetic observation points. This occupation produced many concrete results. The Magnetischer Verein and its journal were founded, and the atlas of geomagnetism was published, while Gauss and Weber's own journal in which their results were published ran from 1836 to 1841. In 1837, Weber was forced to leave Göttingen when he became involved in a political dispute and, from this time, Gauss's activity gradually decreased. He still produced letters in response to fellow scientists' discoveries usually remarking that he had known the methods for years but had never felt the need to publish. Sometimes he seemed extremely pleased with advances made by other mathematicians, particularly that of Eisenstein and of Lobachevsky. Gauss spent the years from 1845 to 1851 updating the Göttingen University widow's fund. This work gave him practical experience in financial matters, and he went on to make his fortune through shrewd investments in bonds issued by private companies. Two of Gauss's last doctoral students were Moritz Cantor and Dedekind. Dedekind wrote a fine description of his supervisor ... usually he sat in a comfortable attitude, looking down, slightly stooped, with hands folded above his lap. He spoke quite freely, very clearly, simply and plainly: but when he wanted to emphasise a new viewpoint ... then he lifted his head, turned to one of those sitting next to him, and gazed at him with his beautiful, penetrating blue eyes during the emphatic speech. ... If he proceeded from an explanation of principles to the development of mathematical formulas, then he got up, and in a stately very upright posture he wrote on a blackboard beside him in his peculiarly beautiful handwriting: he always succeeded through economy and deliberate arrangement in making do with a rather small space. For numerical examples, on whose careful completion he placed special value, he brought along the requisite data on little slips of paper. Gauss presented his golden jubilee lecture in 1849, fifty years after his diploma had been granted by Hemstedt University. It was appropriately a variation on his dissertation of 1799. From the mathematical community only Jacobi and Dirichlet were present, but Gauss received many messages and honours. From 1850 onwards Gauss's work was again of nearly all of a practical nature although he did approve Riemann's doctoral thesis and heard his probationary lecture. His last known scientific exchange was with Gerling. He discussed a modified Foucalt pendulum in 1854. He was also able to attend the opening of the new railway link between Hanover and Göttingen, but this proved to be his last outing. His health deteriorated slowly, and Gauss died in his sleep early in the morning of 23 February, 1855. References (67 books/articles) Some pages from works by Gauss: A letter from Gauss to Taurinus discussing the possibility of non-Euclidean geometry. An extract from Theoria residuorum biquadraticorum (1828-32) References elsewhere in this archive: You can see another picture of Gauss in 1803. Tell me about the Prime Number Theorem Show me Gauss's estimate for the density of primes and compare it with Legendre's Tell me about Gauss's part in investigating prime numbers Tell me about Gauss's part in the development of group theory and matrices and determinants Tell me about his work on non-Euclidean geometry and topology Tell me about Gauss's work on the fundamental theorem of algebra Tell me about his work on orbits and gravitation Other Web sites: You can find out about the Prime Number Theorem at University of Tennessee, USA _________________________________________________________________ Previous (Chronologically) Next Biographies Index Previous (Alphabetically) Next Welcome page History Topics Index Famous curves index Chronologies Birthplace Maps Mathematicians of the day Anniversaries for the year Search Form Simple Search Form Search Suggestions _________________________________________________________________ JOC/EFR December 1996 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Bill Stewart Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 11:48:14 +0800 To: "James A. Donald" Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980110194009.00883460@popd.ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 11:18 AM 1/10/98 -0800, James A. Donald wrote: >I have received some negative feedback about the name >"Crypto Kong". >Two people have complained that it is unprofessional sounding. Keep it. If you're going for the liberal non-techie market, it's good; if you're going for the financial market it's still ok, and if you need to, you can publish a standard for it, and some small Nevada corporation with a boring name can distribute a Crypto-Kong-compatible product with a boring name for you :-) Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 09:26:35 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: LUC Public Key Crypto... Message-ID: <199801110150.TAA15260@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Hi, In the process of doing some research on Gauss I stumbled across this... ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| Forwarded message: > Dr. Dobb's Web Site > > LUC PUBLIC-KEY ENCRYPTION > > > > A secure alternative to RSA > > Peter Smith > > Peter has worked in the computer industry for 15 years as a > programmer, analyst, and consultant and has served as deputy editor of > Asian Computer Monthly. Peter's interest in number theory led to the > invention of LUC in 1991. He can be reached at 25 Lawrence Street, > Herne Bay, Auckland, New Zealand. > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > According to former NSA director Bobby Innman, public-key cryptography > was discovered by the National Security Agency in the early seventies. > At the time, pundits remarked that public-key cryptography (PKC) was > like binary nerve gas--it was potent when two different substances > were brought together, but quite innocuous in its separate parts. > Because the NSA promptly classified it, not much was known about PKC > until the mid-seventies when Martin Hellman and Whitfield Diffie > independently came up with the notion and published papers about it. > > Traditional cryptographic systems like the venerable Data Encryption > Standard (DES) use the same key at both ends of a message > transmission. The problem of ensuring correct keys leads to such > expensive expedients as distributing the keys physically with trusted > couriers. Diffie and Hellman (and the NSA) had the idea of making the > keys different at each end. In addition to encryption, they envisioned > this scheme would also lead to a powerful means of source > authentication known as digital signatures. > > RSA, developed in 1977, was the first reliable method of source > authentication. The RSA approach (patented in the early eighties) > initiated intense research in "number theory," one of the most > recondite areas of mathematics. Although C.F. Gauss studied this topic > in the early 1800s (referring to it then as "higher arithmetic"), very > little real progress has been made in solving the problem of factoring > since then. The means available today are essentially no better than > exhaustive searching for prime factors. In terms of intractability > theory, however, no one has yet proved that the problem is > intractable, although researchers believe it to be so. > > > > The RSA Algorithm > > > > RSA works by raising a message block to a very large power, then > reducing this modulo N, where N (the product of two large prime > numbers) is part of the key. Typical systems use an N of 512 bits, and > the exponent to which blocks are raised in decryption is of the same > order. An immediate problem in implementing such a system is the > representation and efficient manipulation of such large integers. > (Standard microprocessors don't really have the power to handle normal > integer sizes and functions; even numeric coprocessors are inadequate > when integers of this size are involved.) > > RSA has dominated public-key encryption for the last 15 years as > research has failed to turn up a reliable alternative--until the > advent of LUC. Based on the same difficult mathematical problem as > RSA, LUC uses the calculation of Lucas functions instead of > exponentiation. (See text box entitled, "How the Lucas Alternative > Works.") > > Because we're working in the area of mathematics, we can formally > prove that LUC is a true alternative to RSA. Furthermore, we can show > that a cipher based on LUC will be at least as efficient. More > importantly, we can show that LUC is a stronger cipher than RSA. The > reason is that under RSA, the digital signature of a product is the > product of the signatures making up the product; in mathematical > terms, M{e}L{e}=(ML){e}. This opens RSA to a cryptographic attack > known as adaptive chosen-message forgery. Ironically, this is outlined > in a paper co-authored by Ron Rivest (the "R" in RSA). LUC is not > multiplicative and therefore not susceptible to this attack. Using > Lucas functions, V[e](M,1)V[e](L,1) is not equal to V[e](ML,1). In > other words, the use of exponentiation leads to RSA being > multiplicative in this way, while LUC's use of Lucas functions avoids > this weakness. > > Choosing the Algorithms > > > > Lucas functions have been studied mainly in relation to primality > testing, and it was to these sources we turned when researching > efficient algorithms for implementing LUC. For given parameters, the > Lucas functions give rise to two series, U[n] and V[n]. The first > algorithm (see Listing One, page 90) calculated both, even though we > were only interested in V[n]. It was only in a paper on factoring > integers that we found a means of calculating V[n] alone (see Listing > Two, page 90). The pseudocode examples show that both algorithms have > two phases: The work done when the current bit is a 0 is half the work > necessary when the current bit is a 1. > > More Details. > > Typically, in systems like LUC the exponent used for encryption is a > much smaller integer than that used for decryption. A commonly chosen > encryption exponent is the prime number 65,537. This is a good choice > for fast encryption as all but 2 of the 17 bits are 0s. We have no > such control over the decryption exponent, but there is a way of > halving the work, and thus, of introducing a limited degree of > parallelism into the calculation. > > Since LUC is a public-key cryptosystem, we can always assume that the > possessor of the private decrypting keys knows the two primes (p and > q) which make up the modulus, N. Consequently, we can reduce the > exponent and message with respect to the two primes, in each case at > least halving the amount of work. At the end of the calculation with > respect to the primes, we bring the results together to produce the > final plain text (see Listing Three, page 90). > > Large-integer Arithmetic > > > > There's really only one source of information about large-integer > arithmetic: Knuth's The Art of Computer Programming. We found that > almost every time we referred to his book, we came up with some new > angle or way of tweaking some extra performance out of our code. > > We decided to represent the large integers as 256-byte arrays, with > the low byte giving the length (in bytes) of the integer. For > instance, the 8-byte hexadecimal number 1234567890ABCDEF would appear > in a file view as 08 EF CD AB 90 78 56 34 12. These arrays became a > Pascal-type har (for hexadecimal array). We can store integers of over > 600 decimal digits in our hars, but because the hars must be able to > hold the results of a multiplication, we are limited to manipulating > integers up to 300 decimal digits in length. > > Implementation of addition, subtraction, and multiplication went quite > smoothly; implementation of division took more effort. (We took > comfort in not being the first to encounter problems with division. > Lady Ada Lovelace, the first computer programmer, said, "I am still > working at some most entangled notations of division, but see my way > through them at the expense of heavy labor, from which I shall not > shrink as long as my head can bear it.") We tried various methods, > including one based on Newton which calculated the inverse of the > divisor and then multiplied. (See Knuth's discussion.) We finally > opted for Knuth's Algorithm D, despite his warning that it contained > possible discontinuities. At that stage, we were working on a 16-bit > 80286 PC; see Listing Four, page 90. > > Of course there was much more than the division routine to consider, > but we found that it was the critical routine in terms of getting LUC > to run at a reasonable speed. Once we had upgraded to an 80386, we > converted to a full 32-bit implementation. The assembler code for the > division (still Algorithm D) is given in Listing Five (page 91). > Although space constraints prevent a complete presentation of the > code, suffice to say that we have been able to achieve a > signing/decryption speed on a modulus of 512 bits of over 200 bits per > second (33-MHz 80386, 0 wait states). > > Other Issues > > > > Central to any cryptographic system are keys. In LUC, if an adversary > is able to find p and q, the prime factors of modulus N, then all > messages sent with N can be either read in the case of encryption or > forged in the case of signing. > > Since the days of Gauss, research on factoring has come up with > various so-called "aleatoric" methods of factoring some numbers. These > methods are like cures for poison ivy: numerous, and occasionally > efficacious. One old method, found by Pierre Fermat, is very quick at > factoring some types of composite numbers. If N is the product of two > primes which are close together, then it can be easily factored. For > example, if p=1949, and q=1951, then N=3802499. Taking the square root > of N, we find that it is approximately 1949.999. Adding 1 to the > integral part of this (giving 1950), we square this, giving 3802500. > If we now subtract N from this square, we get a difference of 1, which > is the square of itself. This means that N has been expressed as the > difference of two squares. As we learned in high school, x{2}-y{2} = > (x-y)(x+y), and so we obtain the two factors. > > Fermat's method works whenever the ratio of the factors is close to an > integer. (Note that the ratio is close to 1 in the above discussion.) > This attack, as cryptographers call methods used to break a cipher, > has to be guarded against in generating the modulus N. > > Another guard is that neither (p + 1) and (q + 1) nor (p - 1) and (q - > 1) should be made up of small prime factors. There are many other > guards of varying degrees of importance, but the entire area needs > consideration depending on the level of security required, and how > long the keys are meant to last. > > The basic idea behind LUC is that of providing an alternative to RSA > by substituting the calculation of Lucas functions for that of > exponentiation. While Lucas functions are somewhat more complex > mathematically than exponentiation, they produce superior ciphers. > > This substitution process can be done with systems other than the RSA. > Among these are the Hellman-Diffie-Merkle key exchange system (U.S. > Patent number 4,200,770), the El Gamal public-key cryptosystem, the El > Gamal digital signature, and the recently proposed Digital Signature > Standard (DSS), all of which use exponentiation. > > The nonmultiplicative aspect of Lucas functions carries over, allowing > us to produce alternatives to all these. In the case of the DSS, Lucas > functions allow us to dispense with the one-way hashing cited (but not > specified) in the draft standard. > > A New Zealand consortium has been set up to develop and license > systems based on LUC, which is protected by a provisional patent. For > more information, contact me or Horace R. Moore, 101 E. Bonita, Sierra > Madre, California 91024. > > References > > > > Athanasiou, Tom. "Encryption Technology, Privacy, and National > Security." MIT Technology Review (August/September, 1986). > > Diffie, W. and M.E. Hellman. "New Directions in Cryptography." IEEE > Transactions on Information Theory (November, 1976). > > El Gamal, Taher. "A Public Key Cryptosystem and a Signature Scheme > Based on Discrete Logarithms." IEEE Transactions on Information Theory > (July, 1985). > > Gauss, C.F. "Disquisitiones Arithmeticae," Article 329. > > Goldwasser, S., S. Micali, and R. Rivest. "A Digital Signature Scheme > Secure Against Adaptive Chosen Message Attack." SIAM J. COMPUT (April, > 1988). > > Kaliski, Burton S., Jr. "Multiple-precision Arithmetic in C." Dr. > Dobb's Journal (August, 1992). > > Knuth, D.E. The Art of Computer Programming: Volume II: Semi-Numerical > Algorithms, second edition. Reading, MA: Addison-Wesley, 1981. > > Schneier, Bruce. "Untangling Public Key Cryptography." Dr. Dobb's > Journal (May, 1992). > > Williams, H.C. "A p + 1 method of factoring." Mathematics of > Computation (vol. 39, 1982). > > How the Lucas Alternative Works > > > > As with RSA encryption, use of the Lucas alternative involves two > public keys: N and e. The number N is assumed to be the product of two > large (odd) prime numbers, p and q. Encryption and decryption of a > message is achieved using Lucas sequences, which may be defined as > shown in Example 1. Note that P and Q are integers. > > If a message P is to be sent, it is encoded as the residue P1 modulo N > of the eth term of the Lucas sequence V[n](P,1), and then transmitted. > The receiver uses a secret key d (based on the prime factorization of > N) to decode the received message P1, by taking the residue modulo N > of the dth term of the Lucas sequence V[n](P1,1). The secret key d is > determined so that V[d](V[e](P,1),1) = P modulo N, ensuring the > decryption of the received message P1 as P. The existence of such a > key d is based on the following theorem. > > Theorem > > > > Suppose N is any odd positive integer, and P is any positive integer, > such as P{2}-4 is coprime to N. If r is the Lehmer totient function of > N with respect to D = P{2}-4 (see Example 2), then V[mr+1](P,1)=P > modulo N for every positive integer m. The condition that P{2}-4 be > coprime to N is easily checked, as P{2}-4=(P+2)(P-2). Also, because > V[d](V[e](P,1),1)=V[de](P,1), according to Example 4(e), the key d may > simply be chosen so that de=1 modulo r. > > The Lehmer Totient Function > > > > Suppose P and Q are integers, and a and b are the zeros of X{2}-Px+Q > (so that P = a+b while Q = ab). Also, let D be the discriminant of > x{2}-Px+Q. That is, D = P{2}-4Q = (a-b){2}. > > The Lucas sequences U[n] = U[n] (P,Q) and V[n] = V[n] (P,Q) are > defined for n = 0,1,2, and so on by the equation in Example3. > > In particular, U[0] = 0, U[1] = 1, and then U[n+1] = PU[n] - QU[n-1] > (for n = 1,2,3,...), while V[0] = 2, V[1] = P, and similarly V[n+1]= > PV[n]-QV[n-1] (for n = 1,2,3,...). These sequences satisfy a number of > identities, including the following which may be simply obtained from > the definitions in Example 4. > > Next, suppose N is any positive integer, and let r be the Lehmer > totient function of N with respect to D = P{2}-4Q, defined the same > way as in the statement of the theorem. In the special case where N is > an odd prime p, the Lehmer totient function of p with respect to D is > the number given by the equation in Example 5(a). In this case, the > Lucas-Lehmer theorem states that if p does not divide Q then the > equation in Example 5(b) holds true. > > Example of LUC > > > > Let N = pxq = 1949x2089=4071461, and P = 11111, which equals the > message to encrypt/decrypt. The public keys will be e and N; the > private key will be d. First, calculate r, the Lehmer totient function > of P with respect to N. To do this we need to calculate the Legendre > of p and q. Let D = p{2}-4; then (D/1949) =-1 and (D/2089)=-1 are the > two Legendre values. Hence r is the least common multiple of 1949 + 1 > and 2089 + 1; see Example 6(a). Choosing e = 1103 for our public key, > we use the Extended Euclidean Algorithm to find the secret key d, by > solving the modular equation ed = 1 mod r. d turns out to equal 24017. > > To encrypt the message 11111, we make the calculation shown in Example > 6(b). To decrypt the encrypted message, we calculate as in Example > 6(c). --P.S. > > > _LUC PUBLIC-KEY ENCRYPTION_ > by Peter Smith > > > [LISTING ONE] > > { To calculate Ve(P,1) modulo N } > Procedure LUCcalc; > {Initialise} > BEGIN > D := P*P - 4; ut := 1; vt := P; u := ut; v := vt; > If not odd(e) then BEGIN u := 0; v := 2; END; > e := e div 2; > {Start main} > While e > 0 do > BEGIN > ut := ut*vt mod N; vt := vt*vt mod N; > If vt < 3 then vt := vt + N; > vt := vt - 2; > If odd(e) then > BEGIN > c := (ut*v + u*vt) mod N; > v := (vt*v + D*u*ut) mod N; > If odd(v) then v := v + N; v := v/2; > If odd(c) then c := c + N; u := c/2; > END; > e := e div 2; > END; > END; {LUCcalc} > > { The required result is the value of v.} > > > > > > > [LISTING TWO] > Pseudocode for calculating Lucas Functions > > Procedure wiluc { V = V(M) Mod N, the Mth Lucas number(P,1) } > Var > V,Vb,P,Vf,N,M,NP, Vd, Vf : LargeInteger ; > carry, high_bit_set : boolean ; > bz : word ; > BEGIN > Va := 2 ; { V[0] } Vb = P ; { V[1] } > NP := N - P; bz := bits(M) -1 ; { test bits from high bit downwards } > For j := 1 to bz do > BEGIN > Vc := Vb * Vb; Vf = Vc ; If Vf < 2 then Vf := Vf + N > Vf := Vf - 2; Vd := Va * Vb > { Vc := V, Vd := V*Vb, Vf := V-2} > If high_bit_set Then > BEGIN > Vb := P * Vc; If Vb < Vd then Vb := Vb + N; Vb := Vb - Vd; > If Vb < P then Vb := Vb + N; Vb := Vb - P; Va := Vf > END ; > Else BEGIN { "even" ie high bit not set } > Va := Vd; If Va < P then Va := Va + N; Va := Va - P; > Vb := Vf; > END ; > High_bit_set := next_bit_down(M); > {This boolean function determines the setting of the next bit down} > Va := Va Mod N; Vb := Vb Mod N > END ; { for j to bz } > END ; {wiluc} > > > > > > > [LISTING THREE] > > { Pseudocode for splitting decryption/signing over p and q > (N = p*q) } > Procedure hafluc ( var s,p,q,m,e : LargeInteger ; qix : word ) ; > var ep,emq, > temp,pi,qi, > b,n,pa,qa : LargeInteger ; > > { This procedure applies only to decipherment and signing, where the primes > making up the modulus N ( = p * q) are known (or can be easily deduced, > since both keys are known). Applying it allows us to halve the amount of > work. Encipherment is usually done with a small key - standard is 65537. } > Begin > Qpr (pa,qa,p,q,m,qix ) ; {} {assumes qix already calculated } > ep = e ; ep = ep Mod pa > emq = e ; emq = emq Mod qa > mp = m ; mp = mp Mod p > mq = m ; mq = mq Mod q > wiluc(q2,mq,emq,q) ; wiluc(p2,mp,ep,p) ; > if p2 < q2 then > Begin > temp = q q = p p = temp > temp = q2 q2 = p2 p2 = temp > End ; > temp = p2 temp = temp - q2 > n = p * q > { Solve with Extended Euclidean algorithm qi = 1/q Mod p. The algorithm > for the Extended Euclidean calculation can be found in Knuth. } > r = temp * p > r = r mod N > s = r * qi > s = s Mod n > s = s + p2 > End ; { hafluc } > Procedure SignVerify ; > Begin > h4 = 4 > p = large prime... > q = large prime... > n = p * q > bz := bits(n) ; > {write(cf,' generate 4 keysets (d,e) for p1,q1') ;} > { > qix table for T[qix] > Convention for qix > This calculation is explained below. > Lehmer totient qix Legendre values for p and q > i.e. T[qix] = LCM > (p - 1),(q - 1) 1 1 1 > (p - 1),(q + 1) 2 1 -1 > (p + 1),(q - 1) 3 -1 1 > (p + 1),(q + 1) 4 -1 -1 > e = encryption key, small prime eg 65537 > mu = message as large integer less than n > Solve e * d[qix] = 1 Mod T[qix] using Extended Euclidean Algorithm > where T[qix] is lcm(p1,q1), the Lehmer totient function of N > with repect to mu, according to the above table. > This gives 4 possible values of d, the decryption/signing key. > The particular value used depends on the message mu, as follows: > Let D = mu2 - 4. Calculate the Legendre values of D with respect to > both p and q. This value is -1 if D is a quadratic non-residue of > p (or q), and equal to 1 if D is a quadratic residue of p (or q). > N.B. This part is the most difficult part of LUC! Take care. > > Signing (Deciphering): > hafluc (a,pu,qu,mu,d,qix) > > Verifying (Enciphering): > Use Wiluc. > End. > > > > > > > [LISTING FOUR] > > Algorithm D in 32-bit Intel assmbler > Author: Christopher T. Skinner > Short version of Mod32.Txt with scalings just as comments > Modulus routine for Large Integers > u = u Mod v > Based on: > D.E.Knuth The Art of Computer Programming > Vol 2 Semi-Numerical Algorithms 2ed 1981 > Algorithm D page 257 > We use a Pascal Type called "har" ( for "hexadecimal array") > Type > har = Array[0..255] of byte ; > Var u,v : har ; > Note that u[0] is the length of u and that the > integer begins in u[1] > It is desirable that u[1] is on a double word boundary. > > ; Turbo Pascal Usage: ( Turbo Pascal v6.0) > ; {$L Mod32a} { contains mod32 far } > ; {$F+} { far pointers } > ; procedure Mod32 ( var u,v : har ) ; > ; Turbo Assembler code: (TASM v2.01)--requires 32-bit chip ie 386 or 486 > ; nb FS and GS can be used as temporary storage. Don't try to use them as > ; segment registers because Windows 3.0 restricts their allowed range, even > ; after you have finished out of Windows. You will hang for sure, unless you > ; have used a well-behaved protected-mode program to reset them, or cold boot. > > Data Segment Word Public Use16 > vdz dw ? ; size v words > va dd ? ; hi dword v > vb dd ? ; 2nd " v > vi dw ? ; ^v[1] > savdi dw ? ; used in addback > Data EndS > > Code Segment Word Public Use16 > Assume cs:Code, ds:Data ,es:Nothing > Public mod32 > ; Pascal Parameters: > u Equ DWord Ptr ss:[bp+10] ; Parameter 1 of 2 (far) > v Equ DWord Ptr ss:[bp+ 6] ; parameter 2 of 2 > uof equ word ptr ss:[bp+10] > vinof equ word ptr ss:[bp+ 6] > > mod32 Proc far > push bp > mov bp,sp > push di > push si > push ds ; save the DS > > ; Before using Mod32 check that: > ; v > 0 > ; v < u u <= 125 words > ; v[0] is a multiple of 4 and at least 8 > ; v[top] >= 80h (may need to scale u & v) > ; make u[0] = 0 Mod 4 (add 1..3 if required) > domod: > ; now point to our v > mov ax,seg v > mov ds,ax > assume ds:Data > mov si, offset v > cld > assume es:Nothing > xor ah,ah > mov al,es:[di] ; ax = size of u in bytes "uz" > mov cx,ax ; cx = uz > mov bx,ax ; bx = uz > mov al,[si] > mov dx,ax ; dx = size v bytes > shr ax,2 > mov vdz,ax ; vdz " dwords vz = 0 mod 4 > sub bx,dx ; bx = uz - vz difference in bytes > mov ax,bx ; ax = uz - vz > sub ax,3 ; ax = uz - vz - 3 -> gs > sub cx,3 ; cx = uz - 3 > add cx,di ; cx = ^top dword u > add ax,di > mov gs,ax ; gs = ^(uz-vz-3) u start (by -4 down to 1) > inc di > mov fs,di ; fs = uf = ^u[1] , end point > inc si > mov vi,si ; vi = ^v[1] > add si,dx > mov eax,[si-4] > mov va,eax ; va = high word of v > mov eax,[si-8] > mov vb,eax ; vb = 2nd highest word v > mov di,cx ; set di to ut , as at bottom of loop > d3: > mov edx,es:[di] ; dx is current high dword of u > sub di,4 > mov eax,es:[di] ; ax is current 2nd highest dword of u > mov ecx,va > cmp edx,ecx > jae aa ; if high word u is 0 , never greater than > div ecx ; mov ebx,eax > mov esi,edx ; si = rh > jmp short ad ; Normal route -- -- -- -- --> > aa: mov eax,0FFFFFFFFh > mov edx,es:[di] ; 2nd highest wrd u > jmp short ac > ab: mov eax,ebx ; q2 > dec eax > mov edx,esi ; rh > ac: mov ebx,eax ; q3 > add edx,ecx > jc d4 ; Knuth tests overflow, > mov esi,edx > ; normal route: > ad: > mul vb ; Quotient by 2nd digit of divisor > cmp edx,esi ; high word of product : remainder > jb d4 ; no correction to quot, drop thru to mulsub > ja ab ; nb unsigned use ja/b not jg/l > cmp eax,es:[di-4] ; low word of product : 3rd high of u > ja ab > d4: ; Multiply & subtract * * * * * * * > mov cx,gs > mov di,cx ; low start pos in u for subtraction of q * v > sub cx,4 > mov gs,cx > xor ecx,ecx > Mov cx,vdz ; word count for q * v > mov si,vi ; si points to v[1] > xor ebp,ebp ; carry 14Oct90 bp had problems in mu-lp > even > ; ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** > ba: lodsd ; eax <- ds[si] > mul ebx ; dx:ax contains product carry set if dx > 0 > add eax,ebp > adc edx,0 > sub es:[di],eax > adc edx,0 > mov ebp,edx > add di,4 > loop ba ; dec cx , jmp if not 0 > ; .. .. .. . .. .. . .. .. . .. . . .. > sub es:[di],edx > jnc d7 > > mov si,vi ; add back (rare) > mov savdi,di > mov di,gs > add di,4 > clc > mov cx,vdz > bb: lodsd ; eax = ds[si] si + 2 > adc es:[di],eax > inc di > inc di > inc di > inc di > loop bb > xor eax,eax > mov es:[di],eax > mov di,savdi > ; test with: > ; 1,00000000,00000000,00000001/ 80000000,00000000,00000001 > d7: > mov bx,fs ; fs ^u[1] > mov ax,gs ; gs = current u start position > cmp ax,bx ; current - bottom > jb d8 > sub di,4 > jmp d3 > d8: > ; here we would scale u down if it had been scaled up > quex: ; quick exit if v < u > cld ; just in case > pop ds > pop si > pop di > pop bp > ret 8 ; 2 pointers = 4 words = 8 bytes > mod32 EndP ; > Code Ends > End > > > > > > [LISTING FIVE] > > Algorithm D in 16-bit Intel assembler > Author: Christopher T. Skinner > mod16.txt 21 Au8 92 16 bit modulus > ; divm Modulus > Data Segment Word Public > vwz dw ? ; size v words > va dw ? ; hi word v > vb dw ? ; 2nd " v > vi dw ? ; ^v[1] > uf dw ? ; ^u[3] > uz dw ? ; size u byte > vz dw ? ; " v " > ua dw ? ; ^( u[0] + uz - vz -1 ) , mul sub start > ut dw ? ; ^ u[topword] > qh dw ? > uzofs dw ? ; ttt > vzofs dw ? ; ttt > Data EndS > Code Segment Word Public > Assume cs:Code, ds:Data > Public diva > > u Equ DWord Ptr [bp+10] ; ES:DI > v Equ DWord Ptr [bp+6] ; DS:SI > ; NB v Must be Global, DS based... > diva Proc far > push bp > mov bp,sp > push ds > cld ; increment lodsw in mulsub > lds si,v > les di,u > xor ah,ah > mov al,es:[di] ; ax = uz size of u in bytes N.B. uz is not actually used > mov cx,ax ; cx = uz > mov bx,ax ; bx = uz > mov al,ds:[si] > mov dx,ax ; dx = size v bytes > shr ax,1 > mov vwz,ax ; vwz " words > sub bx,dx ; bx = uz - vz difference in bytes > mov ax,bx ; ax = uz - vz > dec ax ; ax = uz - vz - 1 -> ua > dec cx ; cx = uz - 1 > add cx,di ; cx = ^top word u > mov ut,cx ; ut = ^top word u > add ax,di > mov ua,ax ; ua = ^(uz-vz-1) u start (by -2 down to 1) > inc di > mov uf,di ; uf = ^u[1] , end point > inc si > mov vi,si ; vi = ^v[1] > add si,dx > mov ax,ds:[si-2] > mov va,ax ; va = high word of v > mov ax,ds:[si-4] > mov vb,ax ; vb = 2nd highest word v > mov di,cx ; set di to ut , as at bottom of loop > d3: > mov dx,es:[di] ; dx is current high word of u > dec di > dec di > mov ut,di > mov ax,es:[di] ; ax is current 2nd highest word of u > mov cx,va > cmp dx,cx > jae aa ;if high word u is 0 , never greater than > div cx ; > mov qh,ax > mov si,dx ; si = rh > jmp ad ; Normal route -- -- -- -- --> > aa: mov ax,0FFFFh > mov dx,es:[di] ; 2nd highest wrd u > jmp ac > ab: mov ax,qh > dec ax > mov dx,si ; rh > ac: mov qh,ax > add dx,cx > jc d4 ; Knuth tests overflow, > mov si,dx > ad: mul vb ; Quotient by 2nd digit of divisor > cmp dx,si ; high word of product : remainder > jb d4 ; no correction to quot, drop thru to mulsub > ja ab ; nb unsigned use ja/b not jg/l > cmp ax,es:[di-2] ; low word of product : 3rd high of u > ja ab > d4: ; Multiply & subtract * * * * * * * > mov bx,ua > mov di,bx ; low start pos in u for subtraction of q * v > dec bx > dec bx ; > mov ua,bx > Mov cx,vwz ; word count for q * v > mov si,vi ; si points to v[1] > mov bx,qh > xor bp,bp > ; ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** > ba: lodsw ; ax <- ds[si] si + 2 preserve carry over mul ? > mul bx ; dx:ax contains product carry set if dx > 0 > add dx,bp > xor bp,bp > sub es:[di],ax > inc di > inc di > sbb es:[di],dx > rcl bp,1 > loop ba ; dec cx , jmp if not 0 > ; .. .. .. . .. .. . .. .. . .. . . .. > rcr bp,1 > jnc d7 > > mov si,vi ; add back (rare) > mov di,ua > inc di > inc di > clc > mov cx,vwz > bb: lodsw ; ax = ds[si] si + 2 > adc es:[di],ax > inc di > inc di > loop bb > mov cx,ut > add cx,4 > sub cx,di > shr cx,1 ; word length of u > bc: mov Word Ptr es:[di],0 > inc di > inc di > loop bc ; > dec di ; > dec di ; > clc > d7: > mov ax,uf > cmp ua,ax > jb d8 > dec di ; New these are suspicious, with an add back and a > dec di ; New > jmp d3 > d8: > cld ; just in case > pop ds > pop bp > ret 8 ; 2 pointers = 4 words = 8 bytes ??? > diva EndP ; > Code Ends > End > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Copyright © 1998, Dr. Dobb's Journal > Dr. Dobb's Web Site Home Page -- Top of This Page > > From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 09:28:45 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com Subject: RB_Fermat.html Message-ID: <199801110153.TAA15325@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain PIERRE DE FERMAT (1601 - 1665) From `A Short Account of the History of Mathematics' (4th edition, 1908) by W. W. Rouse Ball. While Descartes was laying the foundations of analytical geometry, the same subject was occupying the attention of another and not less distinguished Frenchman. This was Fermat. Pierre de Fermat, who was born near Montauban in 1601, and died at Castres on January 12, 1665, was the son of a leather-merchant; he was educated at home; in 1631 he obtained the post of councillor for the local parliament at Toulouse, and he discharged the duties of the office with scrupulous accuracy and fidelity. There, devoting most of his leisure to mathematics, he spent the remainder of his life - a life which, but for a somewhat acrimonious dispute with Descartes on the validity of certain analysis used by the latter, was unruffled by any event which calls for special notice. The dispute was chiefly due to the obscurity of Descartes, but the tact and courtesy of Fermat brought it to a friendly conclusion. Fermat was a good scholar, and amused himself by conjecturally restoring the work of Apollonius on plane loci. Except a few isolated papers, Fermat published nothing in his lifetime, and gave no systematic exposition of his methods. Some of the most striking of his results were found after his death on loose sheets of paper or written in the margins of works which he had read and annotated, and are unaccompanied by any proof. It is thus somewhat difficult to estimate the dates and originality of his work. He was constitutionally modest and retiring, and does not seem to have intended his papers to be published. It is probable that he revised his notes as occasion required, and that his published works represent the final form of his researches, and therefore cannot be dated much earlier than 1660. I shall consider separately (i) his investigations in the theory of numbers; (ii) his use in geometry of analysis and of infinitesimals; and (iii) his method for treating questions of probability. (i) The theory of numbers appears to have been the favourite study of Fermat. He prepared an edition of Diophantus, and the notes and comments thereon contain numerous theorems of considerable elegance. Most of the proofs of Fermat are lost, and it is possible that some of them were not rigorous - an induction by analogy and the intuition of genius sufficing to lead him to correct results. The following examples will illustrate these investigations. (a) If p be a prime and a be prime to p then a^(p-1) - 1 is divisible by p, that is, a^(p-1) - 1 \equiv 0 (mod p). A proof of this, first given by Euler, is well known. A more general theorem is that a^(\phi(n)) - 1 \equiv 0 (mod n) (mod n), where a is prime to n and \phi(n) is the number of integers less than n and prime to it. (b) An odd prime can be expressed as the difference of two square integers in one and only one way. Fermat's proof is as follows. Let n be the prime, and suppose it equal to x˛ - y˛, that is, to (x + y)(x - y). Now, by hypothesis, the only integral factors of n are n and unity, hence x + y = n and x - y = 1. Solving these equations we get x = 1/2 (n + 1) and y = 1/2 (n - 1). (c) He gave a proof of the statement made by Diophantus that the sum of the squares of two integers cannot be of the form 4n - 1; and he added a corollary which I take to mean that it is impossible that the product of a square and a prime of the form 4n - 1 [even if multiplied by a number prime to the latter], can be either a square or the sum of two squares. For example, 44 is a multiple of 11 (which is of the form 4 × 3 - 1) by 4, hence it cannot be expressed as the sum of two squares. He also stated that a number of the form a˛ + b˛, where a is prime to b, cannot be divided by a prime of the form 4n - 1. (d) Every prime of the form 4n + 1 is expressible, and that in one way only, as the sum of two squares. This problem was first solved by Euler, who shewed that a number of the form 2^m (4n + 1) can be always expressed as the sum of two squares. (e) If a, b, c, be integers, such that a˛ + b˛ = c˛, then ab cannot be a square. Lagrange gave a solution of this. (f) The determination of a number x such that x˛n + 1 may be a square, where n is a given integer which is not a square. Lagrange gave a solution of this. (g) There is only one integral solution of the equation x˛ + 2 = ył; and there are only two integral solutions of the equation x˛ + 4 = ył. The required solutions are evidently for the first equation x = 5, and for the second equation x = 2 and x = 11. This question was issued as a challenge to the English mathematicians Wallis and Digby. (h) No integral values of x, y, z can be found to satisfy the equation x^n + y^n = z^n ; if n be an integer greater than 2. This proposition has acquired extraordinary celebrity from the fact that no general demonstration of it has been given, but there is no reason to doubt that it is true. Probably Fermat discovered its truth first for the case n = 3, and then for the case n = 4. His proof for the former of these cases is lost, but that for the latter is extant, and a similar proof for the case of n = 3 was given by Euler. These proofs depend on shewing that, if three integral values of x, y, z can be found which satisfy the equation, then it will be possible to find three other and smaller integers which also satisfy it: in this way, finally, we shew that the equation must be satisfied by three values which obviously do not satisfy it. Thus no integral solution is possible. It would seem that this method is inapplicable to any cases except those of n = 3 and n = 4. Fermat's discovery of the general theorem was made later. A proof can be given on the assumption that a number can be resolved into the product of powers of primes in one and only one way. The assumption has been made by some writers; it is true of real numbers, but it is not necessarily true of every complex number. It is possible that Fermat made some erroneous supposition, but, on the whole, it seems more likely that he discovered a rigorous demonstration. In 1823 Legendre obtained a proof for the case of n = 5; in 1832 Lejeune Dirichlet gave one for n = 14, and in 1840 Lamé and Lebesgue gave proofs for n = 7. The proposition appears to be true universally, and in 1849 Kummer, by means of ideal primes, proved it to be so for all numbers except those (if any) which satisfy three conditions. It is not certain whether any number can be found to satisfy these conditions, but there is no number less than 100 which does so. The proof is complicated and difficult, and there can be no doubt is based on considerations unknown to Fermat. I may add that, to prove the truth of the proposition, when n is greater than 4 obviously it is sufficient to confine ourselves to cases when n is a prime, and the first step in Kummer's demonstration is to shew that one of the numbers x, y, z must be divisible by n. The following extracts, from a letter now in the university library at Leyden, will give an idea of Fermat's methods; the letter is undated, but it would appear that, at the time Fermat wrote it, he had proved the proposition (h) above only for the case when n = 3. Je ne m'en servis au commencement qe pour demontrer les propositions negatives, comme par exemple, qu'il n'y a aucu nombre moindre de l'unité qu'un multiple de 3 qui soit composé d'un quarré et du triple d'un autre quarré. Qu'il n'y a aucun triangle rectangle de nombres dont l'aire soit un nombre quarré. La preuve se fait par apagogeen en cette maničre. S'il y auoit aucun triangle rectangle en nombres entiers, qui eust son aire esgale ŕ un quarré, il y auroit un autre triangle moindre que celuy la qui auroit la mesme proprieté. S'il y en auoit un second moindre que le premier qui eust la mesme proprieté il y en auroit par un pareil raisonnement un troisieme moindre que ce second qui auroit la mesme proprieté et enfin un quatrieme, un cinquieme etc. a l'infini en descendant. Or est il qu'estant donné un nombre il n'y en a point infinis en descendant moindres que celuy la, j'entens parler tousjours des nombres entiers. D'ou on conclud qu'il est donc impossible qu'il y ait aucun triangle rectange dont l'aire soit quarré. Vide foliu post sequens.... Je fus longtemps sans pouvour appliquer ma methode aux questions affirmatives, parce que le tour et le biais pour y venir est beaucoup plus malaisé que celuy dont je me sers aux negatives. De sorte que lors qu'il me falut demonstrer que tout nombre premier qui surpasse de l'unité un multiple de 4, est composé de deux quarrez je me treuvay en belle peine. Mais enfin une meditation diverses fois reiterée me donna les lumieres qui me manquoient. Et les questions affirmatives passerent par ma methods a l'ayde de quelques nouveaux principes qu'il y fallust joindre par necessité. Ce progres de mon raisonnement en ces questions affirmatives estoit tel. Si un nombre premier pris a discretion qui surpasse de l'unité un multiple de 4 n'est point composé de deux quarrez il y aura un nombre premier de mesme nature moindre que le donné; et ensuite un troisieme encore moindre, etc. en descendant a l'infini jusques a ce que vous arriviez au nombre 5, qui est le moindre de tous ceux de cette nature, lequel il s'en suivroit n'estre pas composé de deux quarrez, ce qu'il est pourtant d'ou on doit inferer par la deduction a l'impossible que tous ceux de cette nature sont par consequent composez de 2 quarrez. Il y a infinies questions de cette espece. Mais il y en a quelques autres que demandent de nouveaux principes pour y appliquer la descente, et la recherche en est quelques fois si mal aisée, qu'on n'y peut venir qu'avec une peine extreme. Telle est la question suivante que Bachet sur Diophante avoüe n'avoir jamais peu demonstrer, sur le suject de laquelle Mr. Descartes fait dans une de ses lettres la mesme declaration, jusques la qu'il confesse qu'il la juge si difficile, qu'il ne voit point de voye pour la resoudre. Tout nombre est quarré, ou composé de deux, de trois, ou de quatre quarrez. Je l'ay enfin rangée sous ma methode et je demonstre que si un nombre donné n'estoit point de cette nature il y en auroit un moindre que ne le seroit par non plus, puis un troisieme moindre que le second etc. a l'infini, d'ou l'on infere que tous les nombres sont de cette nature.... J'ay ensuit consideré questions que bien que negatives ne restent pas de recevoir tres-grande difficulté, la methods pour y pratiquer la descente estant tout a fait diverse des precedentes comme il sera aisé d'espouver. Telles sont les suivantes. Il n'y a aucun cube divisible en deux cubes. Il n'y a qu'un seul quarré en entiers que augmenté du binaire fasse un cube, ledit quarré est 25. Il n'y a que deux quarrez en entiers lesquels augmentés de 4 fassent cube, lesdits quarrez sont 4 et 121.... Apres avoir couru toutes ces questions la plupart de diverses (sic) nature et de differente façon de demonstrer, j'ay passé a l'invention des regles generales pour resoudre les equations simples et doubles de Diophante. On propose par exemple 2 quarr. + 7957 esgaux a un quarré (hoc est 2xx + 7967 \propto quadr.) J'ay une regle generale pour resoudre cette equation si elle est possible, on decouvrir son impossibilité. Et ainsi en tous les cas et en tous nombres tant des quarrez que des unitez. On propose cette equation double 2x + 3 et 3x + 5 esgaux chaucon a un quarré. Bachet se glorifie en ses commentaires sur Diophante d'avoir trouvé une regle en deux cas particuliers. Je me donne generale en toute sorte de cas. Et determine par regle si elle est possible ou non.... Voila sommairement le conte de mes recherches sur le sujet des nombres. Je ne l'ay escrit que parce que j'apprehende que le loisir d'estendre et de mettre au long toutes ces demonstrations et ces methodes me manquera. En tout cas cette indication seruira aux sçauants pour trouver d'eux mesmes ce que je n'estens point, principlement si Mr. de Carcaui et Frenicle leur font part de quelques demonstrations par la descente que je leur ay envoyees sur le suject de quelques propositions negatives. Et peut estre la posterité me scaure gré de luy avoir fait connoistre que les anciens n'ont pas tout sceu, et cette relation pourra passer dans l'esprit de ceux qui viendront apres moy pour traditio lampadis ad filios, comme parle le grand Chancelier d'Angleterre, suivant le sentiment et la devise duquel j'adjousteray, multi pertransibunt et augebitur scientia. (ii) I next proceed to mention Fermat's use in geometry of analysis and of infinitesimals. It would seem from his correspondence that he had thought out the principles of analytical geometry for himself before reading Descartes's Géométrie, and had realised that from the equation, or, as he calls it, the ``specific property,'' of a curve all its properties could be deduced. His extant papers on geometry deal, however, mainly with the application of infinitesimals to the determination of the tangents to curves, to the quadrature of curves, and to questions of maxima and minima; probably these papers are a revision of his original manuscripts (which he destroyed), and were written about 1663, but there is no doubt that he was in possession of the general idea of his method for finding maxima and minima as early as 1628 or 1629. He obtained the subtangent to the ellipse, cycloid, cissoid, conchoid, and quadratrix by making the ordinates of the curve and a straight line the same for two points whose abscissae were x and x - e; but there is nothing to indicate that he was aware that the process was general, it is probable that he never separated it, so to speak, from the symbols of the particular problem he was considering. The first definite statement of the method was due to Barrow, and was published in 1669. Fermat also obtained the areas of parabolas and hyperbolas of any order, and determined the centres of mass of a few simple laminae and of a paraboloid of revolution. As an example of his method of solving these questions I will quote his solution of the problem to find the area between the parabola ył = p x˛, the axis of x, and the line x = a. He says that, if the several ordinates of the points for which x is equal to a, a(1 - e), a(1 - e)˛,... be drawn, then the area will be split into a number of little rectangles whose areas are respectively ae(pa^2)^(1/3), ae(1-e) ( pa^2(1-e)^2 )^(1/3),... . The sum of these is p^(1/3) a^(5/3) e / ( 1 - (1 - e)^(5/3) ) ; and by a subsidiary proposition (for he was not acquainted with the binomial theorem) he finds the limit of this, when e vanishes, to be (3/5) p^(1/3) a^(5/3) . The theorems last mentioned were published only after his death; and probably they were not written till after he had read the works of Cavalieri and Wallis. Kepler had remarked that the values of a function immediately adjacent to and on either side of a maximum (or minimum) value must be equal. Fermat applied this principle to a few examples. Thus, to find the maximum value of x(a - x), his method is essentially equivalent to taking a consecutive value of x, namely x - e where e is very small, and putting x(a - x) = (x - e)(a - x + e). Simplifying, and ultimately putting e = 0, we get x = 1/2. This value of x makes the given expression a maximum. (iii) Fermat must share with Pascal the honour of having founded the theory of probabilities. I have already mentioned the problem proposed to Pascal, and which he communicated to Fermat, and have there given Pascal's solution. Fermat's solution depends on the theory of combinations, and will be sufficiently illustrated by the following example, the substance of which is taken from a letter dated August 24, 1654, which occurs in the correspondence with Pascal. Fermat discusses the case of two players, A and B, where A wants two points to win and B three points. Then the game will be certainly decided in the course of four trials. Take the letters a and b, and write down all the combinations that can be formed of four letters. These combinations are 16 in number, namely, aaaa, aaab, aaba, aabb; abaa, abab, abba, abbb; baaa, baab, baba, babb; bbaa, bbab, bbba, bbbb. Now every combination in which a occurs twice or oftener represents a case favourable to A, and every combination in which b occurs three times or oftener represents a case favourable to B. Thus, on counting them, it will be found that there are 11 cases favourable to A, and 5 cases favourable to B; and since these cases are all equally likely, A's chance of winning the game is to B's chance as 11 is to 5. The only other problem on this subject which, as far as I know, attracted the attention of Fermat was also proposed to him by Pascal, and was as follows. A person undertakes to throw a six with a die in eight throws; supposing him to have made three throws without success, what portion of the stake should he be allowed to take on condition of giving up his fourth throw? Fermat's reasoning is as follows. The chance of success is 1/6, so that he should be allowed to take 1/6 of the stake on condition of giving up his throw. But if we wish to estimate the value of the fourth throw before any throw is made, then the first throw is worth 1/6 of the stake; the second is worth 1/6 of what remains, that is 5/36 of the stake; the third throw is worth 1/6 of what now remains, that is, 25/216 of the stake; the fourth throw is worth 1/6 of what now remains, that is, 125/1296 of the stake. Fermat does not seem to have carried the matter much further, but his correspondence with Pascal shows that his views on the fundamental principles of the subject were accurate: those of Pascal were not altogether correct. Fermat's reputation is quite unique in the history of science. The problems on numbers which he had proposed long defied all efforts to solve them, and many of them yielded only to the skill of Euler. One still remains unsolved. This extraordinary achievement has overshadowed his other work, but in fact it is all of the highest order of excellence, and we can only regret that he thought fit to write so little. _________________________________________________________________ This page is included in a collection of mathematical biographies taken from A Short Account of the History of Mathematics by W. W. Rouse Ball (4th Edition, 1908). Transcribed by D.R. Wilkins (dwilkins@maths.tcd.ie) School of Mathematics Trinity College, Dublin From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Raymond D. Mereniuk" Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 12:04:28 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Re: In God We Antitrust, from the Netly News In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801110453.UAA07556@leroy.fbn.bc.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > Tim May writes: > > The AMD K6 may not be quite the dog the K5 was, > > I've got a K5, seems like a fine CPU to me... around the performance > of a P166 for about 1/2 the price. >From a purist point of view the Intel Pentium processors are good performance pieces. The main problem with the Cyrix/IBM is very poor math coprocessor performance. The average user may never notice the difference but the tests and real life use of Quake show that the Cyrix/IBM is not of the same standard as the Pentium. I have a Intel 166MMX labelled processor running just fine at 225 Mhz (75 Mhz X 3). You can't do the same thing with Cyrix/IBM processors, maybe you can over-clock them one step. I am a keen fan of competition in the marketplace and I have two Cyrix/IBM processors in the systems in my home. I have not tried the AMD Pentium class processors but I intend to buy one in the near future just to play around with it. In the past AMD was the king of over-clocking and did things with the 486 chip that Intel could not, or chose not to. I hope AMD again gains that distinction with their Pentium class processors. Maybe Tim May has the real inside scoop on the AMD K6 processors. Certain segments of the market are commiting resources to the AMD K6 and you should see as many in the market as AMD can produce. Tim May's comments on yield problems at AMD could be very true as resellers are having a problem acquiring AMD K6s processors. > > Why do you say the K5 is a dog? > > K6 is similarly value for money. > > I also bought a AMD 486 120Mhz a while ago for similar value for money > reasons. > > I thought for a while Cyrix or AMD had faster processors available > than Intel. (Just prior to to Pentium II, where the Pentium Pro was > highly priced and for some applications slower than an Pentium clocked > at the same speed). > > I may not be off to buy AMD stock, but I like competition, and will > buy AMD or Cyrix any time they have a cheaper and compatible product. > > Adam > -- > Now officially an EAR violation... > Have *you* exported RSA today? --> http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/ > > print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> > )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 > Virtually Raymond D. Mereniuk Raymond@fbn.bc.ca From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Blanc Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 12:06:34 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980110200421.007049d8@cnw.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Vladerusky: Your original post brought up several separate aspects which can be considered separately and may not necessarily coexist in the same place at the same time: 1) secrecy 2) responsibility for publishing 3) working for the government at the expense of unwilling payors 4) the motivations of "true scientists" 5) the requirements for the advancement of science 6) the need of science for the works of great minds Initially your argument had to do with secrecy and the need for scientists to publish their work so that the scientific community may benefit from it. I can't disagree that if a scientist is working for the public, that they should make their work publically available to them, since, after all, they are supposedly working for the public benefit. But you also said that "a key aspect of SCIENCE is publishing". I was only pointing out that, in the context of those who are working for their own purposes and not under the employment of a government agency, some scientists are not overly concerned about contributing to this advancement, as can be observed by their reluctance to publish (even if they eventually do, "under the extreme pressure of friends", for instance). It may be your conclusion that the advancement of science depends upon scientists publishing their works, but the fact is that some great scientists, and many others as well, are not as motivated to contribute as you think is proper for a "true scientist". I think you should distinguish between those scientistis who have joined some kind of "scientific community" and have established an obligation to share the results of their work with that group, and those scientists who are what they are, and do what they do, from motivations unrelated to such communities. .. Blanc From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Bill Stewart Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 12:56:28 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: Freedom Forum report on the State of the First Amendment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980110202657.009336a0@popd.ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >>> Umm, no, freedom doesn't work like that. If you open a *private* >>> establishment, you have the right, according to the constitution, to >>> deny *anyone* the right to enter or eat in your restraunt. I don't see freedom of association listed anywhere there; you might construe it as a "taking" or something, but it'd be a stretch. Also, there was a really appalling court case in the 1890s (Plessey vs. Ferguson), in which the Supremes ruled that states could require segregation with separate but equal accommodations; it was somewhat overturned by Brown vs. Board of Education in 1954, but the idea that the government can tell you how to run your business is long established (after all, we'd need much smaller governments if they couldn't be interfering in business.) >>Tell that to Denney's restaurants. (No, not in the United Fascist >>States of Amerika you can't.) >Apologies. In *theory* you have those rights, on *paper*, you have those >rights, but in *practice*, you're correct, the Government has power that >it gleefully abuses, forcing others to comply w/ political correctness. > >I'd like some more info on this Denny's thing. A Denny's restaurant in Maryland had two groups of customers show up one day, one group black, one group white, both about 6-8 people, both arriving at the same time, both groups out-of-uniform cops. The white people got served promptly, the blacks got served extremely late and rudely. And sued, and won. (I was mainly surprised that the white cops got served fast; my experience in Denny's has almost always been slow bad service, except for one restaurant in Pennsylvania that hasn't learned how to act like a real Denny's :-) From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 10:05:34 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd) Message-ID: <199801110229.UAA15382@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 16:51:05 -0800 > From: Tim May > Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality > Doesn't matter how the establishment (whatever that might be) looked on him > or not...you challenged me to name _one_ example, and I named several. Oh, > and it is not true as you later claim that all of my examples "eventually > published" all of their findings. Fermat did not, Gauss did not. Gauss and Fermat both published or shared their works with others contemporaries as demonstrated via their short biographies that I submitted to the list. > My main point has been to refute your notion that any one who elects not to > publish in the open literature cannot be a scientist. I know of many > scientists who could not publish, or chose not to for various reasons. If one doesn't publish (which in the scientific sense means to share publicly ones discoveries, *not* necessarily in open literature - which is a constraint you have never implied before now - changing the rules in the middle of the game are we...and while you go ballistic - when Gauss and Fermat were alive there were no magazines, work was published via demonstrations, books or by letters shared between co-workers) then be so kind as to explain how anyone would find out about the work in the first place, divine intervention? > I mentioned the Manhattan Project scientists. (Choate made some bizarre > claim after this mention that all of the science was known in the 20 and > 30s, and that no actual science was done by MP "engineers" and > "technicians." Might be a surprise to Ulam, Teller, von Neumann, and all > the others who worked in secrecy on the atom bomb, then the hydrogen bomb, > and so on.) What Ulam, Teller, Von Neumann did regarding actualy making the devices; such as the work on explosive lenses; was *engineering or technology* it wasn't science. Science as was extant at the time was quite capable of describing what needed to be done, the question was how to build the damn thing. THAT question is technological not scientific. Furher, at *no* time did I imply that those working on the bomb simply quite working on the theoretical issues that were still unanswered. The reality is, as my original claim, that the process *required both*. However, taking this to the extreme, as you are want to do, of equating them is a disservice to their achievements and the endeavors of science and engineering. Further, if you had done one whit of research on the Manhatten Project you would have found that the *primary* issue for most of the scientist was that the military wouldn't allow them to *share their work*. In many of the letters, depositions, minutes of meetings, etc. there are continous and heated discussion on how the secrecy impacted negatively the process of meeting their goals. Ulam, Teller, Von Neumann, et ali. would be the *first* to refute your claim. > Oh, and what of all the many fine Russian scientists of this century, > nearly all restricted in what they could publish? Because they could not > submit their work to open publication were they not doing science? And very little of what they didn't publish outside of the CCCP made a big difference to what others were doing. As a matter of fact, because of this many of the Russian scientists are reaping the rewards by being passed over for Nobels and other such rewards for sharing their work. A very clear result of this policy in the CCCP was the technological 2nd class that resulted in just about every aspect of Soviet science and engineering outside of some very esoteric and theoretical work. A primary example of *why* and *how* such secrecy *inhibits* rather than promotes science is a study of Russian biological sciences. If you seriously claim that the policy of state secrecy didn't inhibit russian science then be so kind as to explain their clones of the Apple II or the IBM 360, which were truly attrocious in their technology. Just look at the impact on China because of these sorts of policies, it was in the late 1970's before they ever managed to build a TTL equivalent quad-NAND gate, something that the western world had been cranking out since the late 1960's. I got involved in computers and electronics in 1969 *because* those self same 7400 chips were *dumped on the surplus market*. Prey tell how we managed to create a technological millieu that allows 9 year old kids to play with chips for pennies when a whole damn country with a population in the billions can't manage to build and use till nearly 10 years later? > The point being that open publication is only a part of the methodology of > doing science, and a fairly recent one, too. Malarky. If you simply review the history of science (something that is becoming clear you haven't) and study some of these great luminaries works you find that *critical* to all of them was *sharing* their work(s) with others of a similar bent. Their biographies are replete with mentions of letters, meetings, books, etc. they both supplied and received from others. Back to Newton, he graduated in 1665 w/ a BA from Cambridge. Shortly before this he had begun his experiments in light. He published these results in 'Philosophical Transactions' in 1672 and was elected a fellow of the Royal Society the same year because of it. In 1687, at Halleys prompting to abandon his chemical studies (he was an alchemist) and focus on mechanics, he published 'Principia'. This same year is when he became involved in politics which eventualy resulted in his appointment in 1689 to the Convention Parliament of the university. In 1695 he was appointed the Warden of the Mint. In 1727 he was appointed Master of the Mint, which he held until his death. In 1703 he became the president of the Royal Society. That same year he published 'Opticks'. In 1705 he was knighted. He also wrote religous works, two of the best known were 'Observations of the Prophecies of Daniel' and 'Church History'. How in good faith you can claim this doesn't qualify as sharing their work and that such sharing isn't critical to advancement is truly revealing. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 10:27:46 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: More on Fermat... Message-ID: <199801110252.UAA15458@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Hi, Given Tim May's assertion that publishing is not critical to the advancement of science *and* that Fermat is a prime example of this I would like to examine it. Let's ignore the references to Fermat's letters and such to Pascal, Descarte, and others. Let's take as a given that Fermat's work was not published. When he died the executors found the material and decided to publish it (we'll ignore their motives for a moment). The result was a global 'aha' for mathematicians. A collective "Ah, so THAT's how you do that." Since it is clear that had Fermat's work *not* been published those self same problems would have remained unsolved, perhaps some as long as his Last Theorem which stands as a prime example of the result of *not* publishing or noting results, perhaps some even till today. It is clear that the initial hypothesis that publishing (or sharing) of work is not critical is clearly incorrect by the very example it holds to prove itself. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: ryan@ntslink.net Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 13:50:49 +0800 To: Subject: RML : New Webmaster Newsletter!! Message-ID: <199801110544.VAA21137@usa-1.gsd.com.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain This List has been purchased by "RML" This is the first webmaster mailing we have done so if you are not a Adult Webmaster, wish to be removed from this list, or have more than one E-mail from us please let us know and we will take care of it! Webmasters contact us at ryan@ntslink.net for the price to mail out this newsletter with your Company's information! --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ranked # 32 on Web Side Story Tight Teenage Nymphos new *Cheater Proof* Top 50 is kicking some serious ass ;-) The site is at http://www.teennympho.com and the webmaster's area is at http://www.teennympho.com/webmasters.html * We were one of the first 10 Top 50's on the net to have the automatically updated script * * We have double CGI to prevent cheaters from getting listed * * You can send hits to our site by opening a console wth our link in it ANY way you want !! Some ideas are 1)Opening it every time someone leaves/enters your site 2) Opening it every time someone clicks on a link to one of your pics 3) Any other way you can think of! * * We average 30-40,000 Uniques a day by Webside Story's Count * * NO Main page BANNERS * * TONS OF BOOKMARK HITS * Click here http://www.teennympho.com to find out more information ;-) We'll see you at the TOP!!!! Sincerely, Ryan Lanane From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 13:00:32 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: Freedom, Starvation, and Uncoerced Relationships In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Tim May writes: > >> Why there is even discussion on this point on a list whose membership is > >> composed mainly of market anarchists is beyond me, > > > >Since when has a crypto anarchist been a market anarchist? > > And how else could it be? Evidently some folks on this list do feel that it's possible for the gubmint to curtail our liberties in some ways and not in others. Phooey. > (And most employers will value work output--profits--over lesser > considerations. So, even though a boss has every "right" to demand that > employees where dunce caps to work, for example, few will. Those who do > will lose their employees and go out of business. Sounds fair to me.) Likewise an employer that discriminates, e.g., redheads of lefties will lose to its competitors who will hire the valuable employees that this moron rejected. > >So allowing someone to stave to death because thay have the wrong collour > >of skin, or unwilling to get up close and personal with the boss, is not a > >form of harm. > > I "allow people to starve to death" each and every day because they are not > doing something I want. Think about it. Every time I elect not to send > money to starving Bengalis or Hutus or Ugabugus I am "allowing them to > starve," quite literally. > > So? So the United Nations of some other body will take your wealth and redistribute it to the starving Bengalis whose religion tells them to have 19 children. > If an employer chooses not to hire certain types of persons this is really > no different from my choosing not to marry certain types of persons (and I > can imagine I could save a woman from "starving" by simply flying to Bangla > Desh, finding a starving woman, marrying her, and then supporting her. So?). Should women be allowed to allow men to go horny by refusing to have sex with certain classes of people? Can a white woman be sued for consistently refusing to sleep with black men? > Freedom means freedom. That some people will not have as much food as they > would like to have in a free society is no reason to discard freedom. > > More to the point, crypto anarchy means taking such decisions about whether > to discard freedom or not out of the hands of others. On the internet nobody knows that you're a protected minority. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Trei Family Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 12:10:53 +0800 To: coderpunks@toad.com Subject: DES 2 challenge: Are you going to help? Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980110230904.007ec230@pop3.ziplink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain There's been remarkably little discussion about the DES II contest sponsored by RSA labs. On the 13th, RSA will post another DES challenge, again with a $10,000 prize. There's a new wrinkle: while the prize is still being given to the first person who reports the key, the size of the prize dwindles as time goes by. It's $10k for the first 540 hours (about 3 weeks), then drops to $5k for the next 540, then $1000, and after 1620 hours drops to 0. Next June RSA will release another challenge, with the same prize; however the time limits will ratchet down depending on how fast the key is discovered this time around. Details are at www.rsa.com I've heard of only one organized group which plans to attack it; the one based at www.distributed.net This is the same group which successfully brute forced 56 bit RC5 encryption. My educated guess, based on the speed with which they are currently searching RC5-64 (about 11 Gkey/sec) and the known speed differences between RC5 and DES searching, is that they have a good but not certain chance of finding the key within the $10,000 window. [Interesting factoid - at that speed they could crack 40 bit RC5 keys at better than one a minute.] If you have cycles to spare, you might consider joining for the DES attack. Their clients are quite good, and do not interfere with normal operations. If you don't want to trust d.n's organizers, consider running Svend Mikkelsen's Bryddes for x86 processors. It's quite a bit faster than my DESKR, and full source is available. Peter Trei trei@ziplink.net From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Bill Stewart Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 16:05:28 +0800 To: Tim May Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980110231328.00850e60@popd.ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >>John Cassidy writes in the January 12 New Yorker mag >>of the controversial economic theory which undergirds DoJ's >>antitrust action against Microsoft. >>He cites a seminal 1984 paper by Brian Arthur, "Competing >>Technologies and Lock-in by Historical Small Events: The >>Dynamics of Choice Under Increasing Returns." ... >>After years of disparagement the theory seems to have >>caught on, at least at Justice and with others who oppose the >>theory of free market determination of winners and losers. >>Arthur argues that market dominance by inferior products >>is possible, and cites MS-DOS as an example. Two other examples - - Rockefeller's takeover of the oil industry in the late 1800s - the Anti-Trust laws that were intended to stop Rockefeller :-) Apparently a large part of Rockefeller's success was recognizing the critical resource in the industry and using control of it for economic advantage. The resource was railroad oil tank cars, which were immensely more economical for shipping oil than the competing technologies - transportation costs were substantial. Rockefeller cornered the market for them, using them to ship oil cheaper than other shippers, allowing his refineries to outbid competitors for crude oil from suppliers, cornering enough of that market to have a dominant position with the railroads, which didn't have an economic motivation to buy their own tank cars, and the tank car makers didn't have an incentive to make them on spec, especially with Rockefeller twisting their arms. The total amount of actual capital was pretty small - about 5000-6000 cars at $1000 each, back when that was still real money, but it was enough to leverage the industry. There were other factors involved - his control over the tank cars let him get away with ripping off his oil suppliers and the railroads on measurements of the quantities they were shipping, much corporate shuffling to hide the real ownership of the resources and evade regulators, kickbacks to avoid common carrier railroad tariffs, and heavy use of information technology (5000 cars only needed a couple of clerks with ledgers, but there were lots of people telegraphing shipping data back to them so it was near-real-time.) If the industry had been well-understood, rather than breaking up a billion-dollar business, the anti-trust folks could have subsidized (directly or through tax breaks) competing production of tank cars. They did try to control ownership of tank cars, so Rockefeller spun off the tank car company, but retained effective control for decades. Their choices have set us up for a century of bad law.... Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Bill Stewart Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 16:08:11 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: Anger Crimes Up 442% In Bay Area In-Reply-To: <34927314.21AC@dev.null> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980110231626.0084f7b0@popd.ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 03:35 AM 12/13/97 -0800, Bezerkeley Nutly News [Toto again] wrote: >[Bezerkeley Nutly News: Special Report by Defcon McCullagh Chainsaw] >AT AN EMERGENCY CYPHERPUNKS PHYSICAL MEETING AT THE W&S TAVERN AT >5 a.m. in south Berkeley this morning, a lone gunman held police at >bay for several hours before escaping with a carton of cigarettes and >several bottles of cheap scotch. Nonsense. None of us drink _cheap_ Scotch..... Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 12:55:58 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd) Message-ID: <199801110521.XAA16005@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 20:05:20 -0800 > From: Blanc > Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality > Your original post brought up several separate aspects which can be > considered separately and may not necessarily coexist in the same place at > the same time: I'm not shure who the 'Your' is but I'd like to add some comments on these issues and observations. > 1) secrecy If you don't know something you either can't take advantage of it or else you have to rediscover it on your own. It is clear that if everyone had to re-invent the wheel at every step then not much would get done. > 2) responsibility for publishing Nobody has a responsbility to publish. Science is a completely voluntary pursuit. I would contend personaly that if you don't publish you arent' doing science but rather mental masturbation (a rather selfish pursuit I suspect). > 3) working for the government at the expense of unwilling payors I don't think this is relevant to the issue at all. > 4) the motivations of "true scientists" Who spoke of true scientist? A 3 year old kid poking at a lightening bug on a warm summer eve is as much a true scientist as a Nobel prize winner working on cosmology, the reason is that *both* will share it with anyone they can get to hold still long enough to listen. We have been speaking of the impact of sharing data on the expansion of scienctific knowledge. The actual logic is remakably simple. If you don't let others know of your work then others must recreate it or it gets lost and the consequences of that is that whole areas of knowledge go unvisited potentialy forever. When *they* share it *they* get credit for it not you (which may or may not be a motive of the individual, it certainly has *nothing* to do with actualy doing science however; it's sorta like why some boy asked you out when you were a kid, they either wanted in your pants or had a genuine interest in your company, or perpaps even both. In any case this has nothing to do with the fact that a date is occurring, it's the mechanism and not the motive that is important). > 5) the requirements for the advancement of science To share ones knowledge with others in such a manner that they may indipendantly verify the results to demonstrate some general pattern in the mechanism(s) of the cosmos. Once this is done the next step is to explore the consequences of this new set of general patterns and what the new understanding leads to. > 6) the need of science for the works of great minds I don't think science needs great minds as much as it offers a set of opportunities to apply those talents in a challenging manner that is not present in many other human pursuits. The relationship is like a moth to a flame (hopefuly with less drastic consequences than for the moth). > Initially your argument had to do with secrecy and the need for scientists > to publish their work so that the scientific community may benefit from it. > I can't disagree that if a scientist is working for the public, that they > should make their work publically available to them, since, after all, they > are supposedly working for the public benefit. To jump from sharing your work with others in the scientific community and equating that community to the public is a bit of a leap. The vast majority of folks wouldn't have a clue what to do with any particular piece of work, let alone how to use it to get something else that wasn't known. Most scientist can't fully apply results from other fields unless they happen to be a polymath or possess some special insight or ability (such as a savante, a good example is Gauss' being able to instantly see how to sum the first 100 numbers by pairings). To do science requires a discipline that even many of those who are trying to do science aren't successful at aquiring. > But you also said that "a key aspect of SCIENCE is publishing". I was > only pointing out that, in the context of those who are working for their > own purposes and not under the employment of a government agency, some > scientists are not overly concerned about contributing to this advancement, > as can be observed by their reluctance to publish (even if they eventually > do, "under the extreme pressure of friends", for instance). Then perhaps they aren't doing science. One also has to look at the motivation of why they aren't publishing. It could be that they don't trust their results, feel that nobody will understand them because of the esoteric nature, simple bashfulness gone extreme, or open hostility or asocial tendencies. This last issue raises a whole range of questions and conclusions about 'great minds' and their 'quirkiness' and commen bahaviour. > It may be your conclusion that the advancement of science depends upon > scientists publishing their works, but the fact is that some great > scientists, and many others as well, are not as motivated to contribute as > you think is proper for a "true scientist". It isn't a question of what I think or some definition of 'true scientist'. It *is* a consequence of what is required to do science which requires that the work you do is shared with others so *they* don't have to recreate it and therefore waste time and effort. Science, by definition, is a collaborative effort. Consider the Fermat example from Tim May, had Fermat went ahead and written his proof down *and* it had been found all those people over the last 200 years would have been able to work on other problems. What kinds of changes in our technology and as a consequence our society would have resulted if *that* could have happened. Instead of 2 steps forward and 1 step back we might be 3 steps forward... > I think you should distinguish between those scientistis who have joined > some kind of "scientific community" and have established an obligation to > share the results of their work with that group, and those scientists who > are what they are, and do what they do, from motivations unrelated to such > communities. I think you should be more consistent in your definition in what science is, what it requires from its practitioners, and how that distinguishes them from others. Simply because I slop paint on a canvas doesn't make me a artist though it does make me a painter. And it is clear that, at least for this example, the artist *is* a painter. 'A implying B' does *not* imply 'B implying A'. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 12:58:10 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: This message required an admin ok...so I gave it Message-ID: <199801110523.XAA16080@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Hi, Not shure why this thing bounced but I'm going ahead and forwarding it to the list just in case it didn't percolate through on its own... ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| Forwarded message: > From owner-cypherpunks@ssz.com Sat Jan 10 23:11:11 1998 > Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 23:11:10 -0600 > Message-Id: <199801110511.XAA15988@einstein.ssz.com> > To: owner-cypherpunks@ssz.com > From: owner-cypherpunks@ssz.com > Subject: BOUNCE cypherpunks@ssz.com: Admin request > > >From cypherpunks-owner@ssz.com Sat Jan 10 23:11:07 1998 > Received: (from cpunks@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id XAA15979 for cypherpunks@ssz.com; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 23:11:05 -0600 > Received: from www.video-collage.com (www.video-collage.com [206.15.171.132]) by einstein.ssz.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA15969 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 23:11:00 -0600 > Received: (from cpunks@localhost) > by www.video-collage.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA11517; > Sat, 10 Jan 1998 23:34:53 -0500 (EST) > Received: from sirius.infonex.com (sirius.infonex.com [206.170.114.2]) > by www.video-collage.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA11512 > for ; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 23:34:49 -0500 (EST) > Received: (from cpunks@localhost) by sirius.infonex.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) id UAA07691; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 20:40:37 -0800 (PST) > Received: from rigel.cyberpass.net (root@rigel.infonex.com [206.170.114.3]) by sirius.infonex.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA07673 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 20:40:31 -0800 (PST) > Received: from netcom13.netcom.com (vznuri@netcom13.netcom.com [192.100.81.125]) by rigel.cyberpass.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA21838 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 20:35:54 -0800 (PST) > Received: from localhost (vznuri@localhost) > by netcom13.netcom.com (8.8.5-r-beta/8.8.5/(NETCOM v1.02)) with SMTP id UAA28539; > Sat, 10 Jan 1998 20:40:26 -0800 (PST) > Message-Id: <199801110440.UAA28539@netcom13.netcom.com> > X-Authentication-Warning: netcom13.netcom.com: vznuri@localhost didn't use HELO protocol > To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net > cc: vznuri@netcom13.netcom.com > Subject: cia manipulation > Date: Sat, 10 Jan 98 20:40:24 -0800 > From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" > > there are different theories about why our government has gotten > so bad, but I subscribe to the following: > > 1. the public and media > has not done its duty to keep our government in check. in addition > to the 3 branches of govt as "checks and balances" built into our > system, the public and media are the other two crucial ingredients. > our forefathers didn't imagine either the public or media going bad, > but that's what's happened imho. > > 2. various special interests have hijacked the government. one of the > biggest parasites is the "military industrial complex". > > the following book speaks to these points, and some here might be > interested. I believe our government could be reformed if enough > people cared, particularly those in the media and the public. a > position I know will not be shared by any anarchists here. > > > > Amazon.com Home > Return to Graphics Mode > > Search / Browse Subjects / Bestsellers / Recommendation Center > Gift Center / Award Winning Books / Reviewed in the Media / Shopping Cart > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Secrets : The Cia's War at Home > by Angus MacKenzie > > List: $27.50 > Our Price: $19.25 > You Save: $8.25 (30%) > > Availability: This title usually ships within 2-3 days. > > Hardcover, 254 pages > Published by Univ California Press > Publication date: October 1, 1997 > Dimensions (in inches): 9.62 x 6.38 x 1 > ISBN: 0520200209 > > > (You can always remove it later...) > > Learn more about > 1-ClickSM ordering > > Check out these titles! Readers who bought Secrets : The Cia's War at Home > also bought: > > * The Cold War & the University : Toward an Intellectual History of the > Postwar Years; Noam Chomsky (Editor), et al > * Harvest of Rage : Why Oklahoma City Is Only the Beginning; Joel Dyer > * Firewall : The Iran-Contra Conspiracy and Cover-Up; Lawrence E. Walsh > > Browse other Politics & Current Events titles. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Reviews and Commentary for Secrets : The Cia's War at Home > > Have you read this book? Write an online review and share your thoughts > with other readers. > > The New York Times Book Review, Tim Weiner : > Left in draft form at his death from brain cancer three years ago, > completed by his friends and family, Secrets is Mackenzie's legacy: a book > obsessed. Like the man, it is an unruly piece of work, but it grabs you by > the lapels and holds on. > > Synopsis: > Drawing from government documents, scores of interviews, and numerous > stories of CIA malfeasance, the late journalist Angus Mackenzie lays bare > the behind-the-scenes evolution of a policy of suppression, repression, > spying, and harassment beginning before the Johnson administration and > continuing to the present. 11 illustrations. > > Card catalog description > This eye-opening expose, the result of fifteen years of investigative work, > uncovers the CIA's systematic efforts over several decades to suppress and > censor information. Angus Mackenzie, an award-winning yournalist, filed and > won a lawsuit against the CIA under the Freedom of Information Act, and in > the process became an expert on government censorship and domestic spying. > Mackenzie lays bare a complex narrative of intrigue among federal agencies > and their senior staff, including the Department of Defense, the executive > branch, and the CIA. From cover-ups and secrecy oaths, to scandals over > leaks and exposure, to the government's often insidious attempts to monitor > and control public access to information, Mackenzie tracks the evolution of > a policy of suppression, repression, spying, and harassment. > > The publisher, University of California Press, www.ucpress.edu , 08/20/97: > This Book is Now Available > "If anything is more corrupting than power, it is power exercised in > secret. Angus Mackenzie's magnificently researched, lucidly written study > of the CIA's outrageous threats to freedom in America over the years is a > summons to vigilance to protect our democratic institutions." > --Daniel Schorr > > "The late Angus Mackenzie has left an appropriate legacy in Secrets: The > CIA's War at Home, a fitting capstone to his long career of exposing > government secrecy and manipulation of public information. Secrets is a > detailed, fascinating and chilling account of the agency's program of > disinformation and concealment of public information against its own > citizens." > --Ben H. Bagdikian, author of THE MEDIA MONOPOLY > > "Scrupulously reported, fleshed out with a fascinating cast of characters, > skillfully illuminating a subject the news media seldom looked into and > never got straight, Angus Mackenzie's last and best work richly deserves a > posthumous Pulitzer -- for nonfiction, history, or both." > --Jon Swan, former senior editor, Columbia Journalism Review > > "This courageous, uncompromising book belongs on the bookshelf of every > serious student of journalism and the First Amendment." > --Tom Goldstein, Dean, Graduate School of Journalism, Columbia University > > "Even in 1997, the exposures of courageous, enterprising journalists like > Mackenzie are crucial for an open government." > --Publishers Weekly > > This eye-opening expose, the result of fifteen years of investigative work, > uncovers the CIA's systematic efforts to suppress and censor information > over several decades. An award-winning journalist, Angus Mackenzie waged > and won a lawsuit against the CIA under the Freedom of Information Act and > became a leading expert on questions government censorship and domestic > spying. In Secrets, he reveals how federal agencies--including the > Department of Defense, the executive branch, and the CIA--have monitored and > controlled public access to information. Mackenzie lays bare the > behind-the-scenes evolution of a policy of suppression, repression, spying, > and harassment. > > Secrecy operations originated during the Cold War as the CIA instituted > programs of domestic surveillance and agent provocateur activities. As > antiwar newspapers flourished, the CIA set up an "underground newspaper" > desk devoted, as Mackenzie reports, to various counterintelligence > activities--from infiltrating organizations to setting up CIA-front student > groups. Mackenzie also tracks the policy of requiring secrecy contracts for > all federal employees who have contact with sensitive information, insuring > governmental review of all their writings after leaving government employ. > > Drawing from government documents and scores of interviews, many of which > required intense persistence and investigative guesswork to obtain, and > amassing story after story of CIA malfeasance, Mackenzie gives us the best > account we have of the government's present security apparatus. This is a > must-read book for anyone interested in the inside secrets of government > spying, censorship, and the abrogation of First Amendment rights. > > FROM THE BOOK: > "The major villains of the censorship story are a succession of > policymakers from the Johnson administration through the Bush > administration and on into the Clinton years, including several presidents > themselves. In a sense, theirs is a spy story--not an action-packed one like > in the movies but one about sleight-of-hand and subterfuge far truer to > reality." > > ANGUS MACKENZIE (1950-1994), an investigative reporter known for his > persistence and independence, was one of the nation's foremost experts on > freedom of information laws. Known for crusading journalism in defense of > the First Amendment, his work appeared in publications ranging from > alternative weeklies to the Washington Post and the Columbia Journalism > Review. Mackenzie was affiliated with the Center for Investigative > Reporting in San Francisco and taught at the School of Journalism at the > University of California, Berkeley. > > DAVID WEIR was a co-founder of the Center for Investigative Reporting, > where he managed contracts with "60 Minutes," "20/20," CNN, CBS News, ABC > News, and many other outlets. He served as editor and writer at a number of > publications, including Rolling Stone, Mother Jones, and the San Francisco > Examiner. He has won or shared over two dozen journalism awards, including > the National Magazine Award. > > The publisher, University of California Press, www.ucpress.edu , 08/20/97: > "If anything is more corrupting than power, it is power exercised in > secret. Angus Mackenzie's magnificently researched, lucidly written study > of the CIA's outrageous threats to freedom in America over the years is a > summons to vigilance to protect our democratic institutions." > --Daniel Schorr > > "The late Angus Mackenzie has left an appropriate legacy in Secrets: The > CIA's War at Home, a fitting capstone to his long career of exposing > government secrecy and manipulation of public information. Secrets is a > detailed, fascinating and chilling account of the agency's program of > disinformation and concealment of public information against its own > citizens." > --Ben H. Bagdikian, author of THE MEDIA MONOPOLY > > "Scrupulously reported, fleshed out with a fascinating cast of characters, > skillfully illuminating a subject the news media seldom looked into and > never got straight, Angus Mackenzie's last and best work richly deserves a > posthumous Pulitzer -- for nonfiction, history, or both." > --Jon Swan, former senior editor, Columbia Journalism Review > > "This courageous, uncompromising book belongs on the bookshelf of every > serious student of journalism and the First Amendment." > --Tom Goldstein, Dean, Graduate School of Journalism, Columbia University > > "Even in 1997, the exposures of courageous, enterprising journalists like > Mackenzie are crucial for an open government." > --Publishers Weekly > > This eye-opening expose, the result of fifteen years of investigative work, > uncovers the CIA's systematic efforts to suppress and censor information > over several decades. An award-winning journalist, Angus Mackenzie waged > and won a lawsuit against the CIA under the Freedom of Information Act and > became a leading expert on questions government censorship and domestic > spying. In Secrets, he reveals how federal agencies--including the > Department of Defense, the executive branch, and the CIA--have monitored and > controlled public access to information. Mackenzie lays bare the > behind-the-scenes evolution of a policy of suppression, repression, spying, > and harassment. > > Secrecy operations originated during the Cold War as the CIA instituted > programs of domestic surveillance and agent provocateur activities. As > antiwar newspapers flourished, the CIA set up an "underground newspaper" > desk devoted, as Mackenzie reports, to various counterintelligence > activities--from infiltrating organizations to setting up CIA-front student > groups. Mackenzie also tracks the policy of requiring secrecy contracts for > all federal employees who have contact with sensitive information, insuring > governmental review of all their writings after leaving government employ. > > Drawing from government documents and scores of interviews, many of which > required intense persistence and investigative guesswork to obtain, and > amassing story after story of CIA malfeasance, Mackenzie gives us the best > account we have of the government's present security apparatus. This is a > must-read book for anyone interested in the inside secrets of government > spying, censorship, and the abrogation of First Amendment rights. > > FROM THE BOOK: > "The major villains of the censorship story are a succession of > policymakers from the Johnson administration through the Bush > administration and on into the Clinton years, including several presidents > themselves. In a sense, theirs is a spy story--not an action-packed one like > in the movies but one about sleight-of-hand and subterfuge far truer to > reality." > > ANGUS MACKENZIE (1950-1994), an investigative reporter known for his > persistence and independence, was one of the nation's foremost experts on > freedom of information laws. Known for crusading journalism in defense of > the First Amendment, his work appeared in publications ranging from > alternative weeklies to the Washington Post and the Columbia Journalism > Review. Mackenzie was affiliated with the Center for Investigative > Reporting in San Francisco and taught at the School of Journalism at the > University of California, Berkeley. > > DAVID WEIR was a co-founder of the Center for Investigative Reporting, > where he managed contracts with "60 Minutes," "20/20," CNN, CBS News, ABC > News, and many other outlets. He served as editor and writer at a number of > publications, including Rolling Stone, Mother Jones, and the San Francisco > Examiner. He has won or shared over two dozen journalism awards, including > the National Magazine Award. > > >From Kirkus Reviews , 07/01/97: > A muckraking adventure in the violation of First Amendment rights. Although > it probably won't come as a surprise to most readers that the federal > government is capable of spying on its citizens, Mackenzie professes a > certain bewilderment at the lengths to which the CIA went to suppress > dissent in the days of Vietnam. The veteran left-wing journalist, who died > of brain cancer in 1994, began his career as the publisher of an antiwar > rag called the People's Dreadnaught; harassed by campus police, he was > forced to suspend publication, although he later won $2,500 in a lawsuit > against Beloit College over the matter. At a national level, he writes, > similar suppression was the order of the day. Although the CIA is > constrained by law from conducting investigations ``inside the continental > limits of the United States and its possessions,'' in fact, Mackenzie > charges, it concocted an elaborate counterintelligence program against > various home-grown protest groups in the 1960s and early '70s, reasoning > that it was taking antiterrorist measures and thus living up to the spirit, > if not the letter, of its charter. Among the targets, Mackenzie writes, was > Ramparts, a venerable leftist magazine that managed to earn the wrath of > the Feds by reporting on that very internal spying. Other targets were the > libertarian guru Karl Hess, renegade CIA whistleblowers Victor Marchetti > and Philip Agee, and a host of lesser-known dissidents. The CIA emerges as > the heavy, naturally, but the real villains in Mackenzie's account are > various policymakers from the Johnson administration to the present. > ``Incrementally over the years they expanded a policy of censorship to the > point that today it pervades every agency and every department of the > federal government,'' he writes. And, he continues, that change was so > gradual that few guardians of the First Amendment noticed. Mackenzie is > occasionally over the top, sometimes glib. But his charges ring true, and > civil-liberties advocates will find much of interest in his pages. (11 b&w > illustrations, not seen) -- Copyright (c)1997, Kirkus Associates, LP. All > rights reserved. > > Table of Contents > Foreword > By David Weir > Editors' Preface > Acknowledgments > Introduction > Prologue: The CIA and the Origins of the Freedom of Information Act > 1. Conservatives Worry and the Cover-Up Begins > 2. You Expose Us, We Spy on You > 3. The CIA tries to Censor Books > 4. Bush Perfects the Cover-Up > 5. Censor Others as You Would Have Them Censor You > 6. Did Congress Outlaw This Book? > 7. Trying to Hush the Fuss > 8. Overcoming the Opposition > 9. Censorship Confusion > 10. The Pentagon Resists Censorship > 11. Hiding Political Spying > 12. One Man Says No > 13. Control of Information > 14. The CIA Openness Task Force > Epilogue: The Cold War Ends and Secrecy Spreads > App. Targets of Domestic Spying > Notes > Index > > Look for similar books by subject: > > Government information > United States > Freedom of information > U.S. Government - Intelligence Agencies > POLITICS/CURRENT EVENTS > Civil Rights > > i.e., each book must be in subject 1 AND subject 2 AND ... > > * I read this book, and I want to review it. > * I am the Author and I want to comment on my book. > * I am the Publisher and I want to comment on this book. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Search Our 2.5-Million-Title Catalog > Enter Keywords: > Other ways to search our catalog > > or Browse by Subject > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Top of Page / Amazon.com Home / About Amazon.com / Need Help? / Your > Account > Your 1-Click Settings / Shopping Basket > > Copyright and disclaimer (c) 1996-1998, Amazon.com, Inc. > From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 13:00:33 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality In-Reply-To: <199801102300.PAA06067@netcom7.netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain "Vladimir Z. Nuri" writes: > the mathematical establishment does not look with favor on Gauss' > secrecy. the commentary is generally that it is a shame he was > so secret and lost credit for his accomplishments. by the way, My commentary is that if he had made an effort to disseminate even more of his work during his lifetime, then they would have spawned more research sooner, and he would have gotten feedback which would have refined his ideas even further, and that would be good for the mathematics in general. > I don't agree that publishing is merely about getting credit, although > because humans are egotistical, that can be a powerful motivator. Economic motivation is the best. Right now a lot of good mathematical research is kept proprietary because it has practical applications (whether in cryptograpy or finance or some other industry). Publishing in peer-reviewed jounrnals is a pain in the ass and the only people who go through with it are colege professors seeking a tenure or a promotion. The reason why patents were invented was to encourage inventors to publish their inventions rather than keeping them a trade secret; eventually the patent would expire and the new knowledge would benefit everyone. I wish I saw an economic incentive for folks working in the industry (including the NSA et al), and the tenured professors to publish. > you refer to science in a narrow sense of merely constructing things. > this is not the sense of science that is of crucial importance to > humanity as a whole. the atom bomb was in some ways a serious regression > of the collective human condition. Woulx you have liked it better if Truman gassed the japs? > this is all so easy, refuting Timmy's feeble grasp of science, that > I might soon quit. unless I get the sense (which I have a finely honed > detector) that his veins are popping, > in which case I'll post a few treatises on the subject. Is that all that it takes? Maybe I should post more often. > >Have they begun torturing you with the snakes of Medusa yet? Timmy sounds like Janos Bolyai, who claimed that Lobachevsky was not a real person, but a tentacle of Gauss. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 13:11:37 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: Freedom, Starvation, and Uncoerced Relationships (fwd) Message-ID: <199801110535.XAA16273@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Subject: Re: Freedom, Starvation, and Uncoerced Relationships > From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) > Date: Sat, 10 Jan 98 22:43:04 EST > Evidently some folks on this list do feel that it's possible for the gubmint > to curtail our liberties in some ways and not in others. Phooey. Exactly. And it is as it should be. Consider that speech is *not* equivalent to action (eg. swinging a fist). Running an enterprise or engaging in some activity *is* equivalent to the party swinging their fist. They have a *right* to swing it so long as it *doesn't* interfere in others right to swing their fist *and* the first parties swinging doesn't strike the second party. In short, a party has the right to make as much money as they like, however that right does not extend to the point of inhibiting others from similar opportunities. A free market monopolizes, that monopolization inhibits others from expressing their rights in the same manner that hitting some person in the face inhibits their fist swinging because they are out cold on the floor. As a consequence a free market is inherently inhibiting on free expression - something any self-respecting anarchist won't put up with. So we are left with the very simple conclusion that any anarchist worth the title won't put up with a free market because it creates an environment that creates a monarchy. It is logicaly inconsistent, and philosophicaly nonsensical, to talk about being an anarchist of any ilk *and* talking about supporting free markets. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 13:15:52 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: A further thought on free markets & anarchy... Message-ID: <199801110542.XAA16327@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Given that anarchist don't support a 'head' in regards to human activities *and* that a free market monopolizes thus creating a 'head' it is clear that if we apply the ideas of human society (ie political systems) to economics we derive a fundamental conflict, that a anarchist in the economic sphere is left with no choice but to agree that economic systems must be managed and creates a 'head' either by plan or monopolistic fiat. Therefore the original thesis that such political models are applicable to economic ones is flawed. It simply is not possible for an economic system to exhist without some sort of 'head' or guiding structure. This is fundamentaly at odds with the definition and spirit of anarchy. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 13:16:57 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980110200421.007049d8@cnw.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Blanc writes: > Initially your argument had to do with secrecy and the need for scientists > to publish their work so that the scientific community may benefit from it. Not just the scientific community... everyone. If an art critic declines to publish something, its a loss probably only to his fellow art critics, but if a mathematician or a biologist or a physicist doesn't publish, it's a loss for more than just his colleagues. > I can't disagree that if a scientist is working for the public, that they > should make their work publically available to them, since, after all, they > are supposedly working for the public benefit. I assume most of the research results from NIH or NIMH are publicly available. Unfortunatey, none of the stuff done at NSA gets published. Of course NSA today is nothing like the NSA in the past. We're not missing much by not seeing whatever inept drivel is produced by Clinton's affirmativr action appointees. Phooey. > But you also said that "a key aspect of SCIENCE is publishing". I was > only pointing out that, in the context of those who are working for their > own purposes and not under the employment of a government agency, some > scientists are not overly concerned about contributing to this advancement, > as can be observed by their reluctance to publish (even if they eventually > do, "under the extreme pressure of friends", for instance). Perhaps they would publish if there were an economic incentive to. > I think you should distinguish between those scientistis who have joined > some kind of "scientific community" and have established an obligation to > share the results of their work with that group, and those scientists who > are what they are, and do what they do, from motivations unrelated to such > communities. Instead of thinking in terms obligations, think of economic incentives. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 13:37:37 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd) Message-ID: <199801110603.AAA16499@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality > From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) > Date: Sat, 10 Jan 98 23:48:06 EST > Blanc writes: > > Initially your argument had to do with secrecy and the need for scientists > > to publish their work so that the scientific community may benefit from it. > > Not just the scientific community... everyone. If an art critic declines > to publish something, its a loss probably only to his fellow art critics, > but if a mathematician or a biologist or a physicist doesn't publish, it's > a loss for more than just his colleagues. I believe this view to be fundamentaly flawed. Consider that if a particular scientist doesn't publish (ala Fermat) then this does not inherently prohibit or inhibit others from deriving the result (lot's of examples so I won't pick a single one). However, when an artist or other practitioner of human expression fails to publish then an item of unique character is lost. Had T.S. Elliot not written 'Old Possum's Book of Practical Cats' it is *very* unlikely that *anyone* in the entire remaining history of the universe would have written those charming poems and we would be deprived among other things of knowing why a cat has three names. In addition, the fact that a given individual finds no worth in why a cat has three names does not change the worth of the insight provided by the author. So, while a given art critics views may not mean much to you this does not justify in any manner trivializing that worth for others. To do so would indicate a personality of extreme hubris and potentialy a severe sociopathy. Expect them to begin walking around with their hand in their vest at any moment. The distinction is that human expression doesn't assume homogeneity nor isotropy as science requires. Rather it assumes a priori that each activity and it's result is unique in the history of the universe and fundamentaly an expression of that *individual* view of experience. That is what art derives it worth from while science derives its worth from the result being the same irrespective of the practitioner. And before somebody brings it up, while reality *is* observer dependant, this is a recognition that the act of testing is fundamentaly a part of the sytsem being tested. The statistical results *are* homogenious and isotropic for observers - Fire in the Deep not withstanding. The end of our exploring will be to arrive at where we started, and to know the place for the first time. T.S. Eliot ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 13:37:18 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: Freedom Forum report on the State of the First Amendment In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980110202657.009336a0@popd.ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Bill Stewart writes: > > >>> Umm, no, freedom doesn't work like that. If you open a *private* > >>> establishment, you have the right, according to the constitution, to > >>> deny *anyone* the right to enter or eat in your restraunt. > > I don't see freedom of association listed anywhere there; Freedoms not explicitly enumerated there aren't protected? Come on. > you might construe it as a "taking" or something, but it'd be a stretch. > Also, there was a really appalling court case in the 1890s > (Plessey vs. Ferguson), in which the Supremes ruled that states > could require segregation with separate but equal accommodations; > it was somewhat overturned by Brown vs. Board of Education in 1954, > but the idea that the government can tell you how to run your business > is long established (after all, we'd need much smaller governments > if they couldn't be interfering in business.) It was wrong for the gubmint (state) to require segregation just as it is wrong for it to prohibit racial discrimination. When martin luther king was boycotting buses et al, he had much support from the private bus companies, who were required by the states to segregate, but didn't want to. "I have a dream. I want my birthday to be a holiday." -MLK --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 13:39:31 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801110521.XAA16005@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <42m5ie59w165w@bwalk.dm.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Jim Choate writes: > > 1) secrecy > > If you don't know something you either can't take advantage of it or else > you have to rediscover it on your own. It is clear that if everyone had to > re-invent the wheel at every step then not much would get done. If you come up with a mathematical result that can be useful in finance, you can sometimes make very substantial money either trading for yourself or selling your result to others who trade. obviously if you publish it in the open lierature, you can no longer do this. Folks who work for the NSA and its foreign counterparts generally don't publish anything, even stuff that would be totally useless to the enemies. > > 2) responsibility for publishing > > Nobody has a responsbility to publish. Science is a completely voluntary > pursuit. I would contend personaly that if you don't publish you arent' > doing science but rather mental masturbation (a rather selfish pursuit I > suspect). There have been scientists most of whose work was published after their deaths. There probably have been scientists whose notes were lost after their deaths, so we don't know who they were. There have been great writers most of whose works were discovered and published after their deaths, and are still great works of lierature. Instead of talking about obligations or responsiiblities, try to come up with an economic incentive to publish. It works best. > > 3) working for the government at the expense of unwilling payors > > I don't think this is relevant to the issue at all. Oh yes it is. I pay their salaries with my taxes, I want to see their results. [snip] --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Blanc Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 16:18:36 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980111001654.007047c8@cnw.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote: >Not just the scientific community... everyone. If an art critic declines >to publish something, its a loss probably only to his fellow art critics, >but if a mathematician or a biologist or a physicist doesn't publish, it's >a loss for more than just his colleagues. ......................................................................... There is a sense of loss of valuable information, once you know that it existed before you knew about it. Of course, there are a million and one things that we don't know today that we wish we knew, and which could help everyone who has the need for that special knowledge. 1) But it is also true that the Truth (the facts of nature and principles on what is possible - in mathematics, or any scientific pursuit) does not "go away" simply because one person's discovery is not conveyed to everyone. It remains true and in existence, waiting for anyone else to do the work of discovery, or for mankind itself to evolve into the kind of creature whose mind can grasp the principles involved. It is a loss not to know the achievements of a great scientist's work, but the facts themselves are not lost, they remain available for anyone who can think as well, to find them. 2) Scientists and other very original, competent people like to think they can do as well as any one else, and I imagine sometimes they consider insulting the proposition that they must depend upon the work of another in order to achieve understanding; that without it they would be unable to do as well. Isn't this one of the reasons for some of the conflicts between scientists over originality, and the jealousy over recognition? I went to an exhibit yesterday of Leonardo da Vinci, where I saw the 400 year old Codex Leicester. He was "a keen observer" of Nature, and from his detailed studies he learned much which provided his inventive mind with much material for creative works. The exhibit brings to mind not only his work, but the methods of such a great mind in reaching those heights and breadths. So in relation to this debate on the morality of not sharing: would it not be as good a thing to look toward method - to value and promote the ability to know how to think, how to observe properly, how to understand what is before oneself - than merely to consider ourselves dependent upon the _result_ of the work of certain others, bewailing their insensitivity when they fail to share with us what they obtained for themselves? Because this does go in the direction of thinking in terms of "obligation", which is rather unappreciative of their unique & separate identity. .. Blanc From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: David Honig Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 16:38:27 +0800 To: platypus@acmeonline.net Subject: Re: [Humor] Kennedy's New Legislation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980111002305.007ca5f0@otc.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 01:28 AM 1/11/98 +1100, ? the Platypus {aka David Formosa} wrote: > If you have a population of >unchanging clones (your typical 'master race') you don't get any evoltion >or improvement. > A population *must* undergo variation in its heriditary units since 1. there's always errors in copying the code 2. equivalently, you can't drive the error rate of a channel down to 0, just arbitrarily close. So your herd of clones will eventually acquire some genetic diversity and selection necessarily follows. Geez are we off-subject. David Honig honig@alum.mit.edu --------------------------------------------------- If we can prevent the government from wasting the labours of the people under the pretense of caring for them, they will be happy. -TJ From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: David Honig Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 16:38:19 +0800 To: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Subject: Re: [Humor] Kennedy's New Legislation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980111002729.007cc410@otc.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain One of the reasons why all drugs should be legal >is that people who should not breed will use the drugs to kill themselves, >leaving more room/wealth/resources for their genetic superiors. Ah yes, the argument against required motorcycle helmets which looks for the increased organ harvest for transplants. Bogus reasoning. You are sovereign and can do with yourself as you please. *That* is why substances should be legal and helmets should be optional. Pragmatics are irrelevant. I *do* wear seatbelts but it should be my choice, not something the state can use violence to enforce. Pardon for the off-topic.. David Honig honig@alum.mit.edu --------------------------------------------------- If we can prevent the government from wasting the labours of the people under the pretense of caring for them, they will be happy. -TJ From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Douglas F. Elznic" Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 13:50:33 +0800 To: Trei Family Subject: Re: DES 2 challenge: Are you going to help? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980110230904.007ec230@pop3.ziplink.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Sat, 10 Jan 1998, Trei Family wrote: > I've heard of only one organized group which plans to attack it; the one > based at www.distributed.net This is the same group which successfully > brute forced 56 bit RC5 encryption. My educated guess, based on the speed > with which they are currently searching RC5-64 (about 11 Gkey/sec) and the > known speed differences between RC5 and DES searching, is that they have > a good but not certain chance of finding the key within the $10,000 window. > [Interesting factoid - at that speed they could crack 40 bit RC5 keys at > better than one a minute.] But distributed.net will not be focusing all of thier computing power on one project. They are also doing the old des contests. So the power will be diminished a little bit. -- Douglas F. Elznic delznic@acm.org "If they give you lined paper, write the other way." Freedom through Electronic Resistance From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: David Miller Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 13:59:26 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801110603.AAA16499@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <34B85EED.2D12492D@avana.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > ... If an art critic declines > to publish something, its a loss probably only to his fellow art critics, > but if a mathematician or a biologist or a physicist doesn't publish, it's > a loss for more than just his colleagues. The author has a skewed view which says that science is more important than art. Simply not true. Don't get too narrow a view of "progress". --David Miller middle rival devil rim lad Windows '95 -- a dirty, two-bit operating system. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: lcs Mixmaster Remailer Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 09:06:15 +0800 To: the sheriff MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >I've got a question for y'all. > >Some idiot finally sent me a junk e-mail message that >I couldn't do anything about with what I have the >knowledge to do -- reading the headers turned up only >one ISP, which was apparently owned by the spammer. > >I'm hoping you guys would know where I could find out >more about this individual -- I'm hoping that he does >in fact buy his service from someone else, and if so, >I'm not sure how to find that out. If he doesn't, is >there anything I can do? His traffic has to be routing through somebody or multiple somebodies. Traceroute it and complain to the upstream site. Unless they're cretins like CIX they'll kill his connection. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: ? the Platypus {aka David Formosa} Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 23:51:37 +0800 To: Paul Bradley Subject: Re: Freedom Forum report on the State of the First Amendment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On Sun, 4 Jan 1998, Paul Bradley wrote: [...] > > My rights to swing my fists end at your noise. When ever you interact > > with other peaple your rights are tempered by there rights. Even Adam > > Smith recognised that its was gorverments dutie to redress the failing of > > the market. > > Why there is even discussion on this point on a list whose membership is > composed mainly of market anarchists is beyond me, Since when has a crypto anarchist been a market anarchist? > the NAP and rights of > association should clearly define the answer to this question, no > agression is involved in the act of firing or declining to hire people > based on their colour/nationality or any other factor whatsoever. Ok a for instence, if I was your boss and I sated that I would fire you unless you would go *u-hum* cave exploring with me[1]. Such situations have occured in the past, would you support them. To me a person with that amount of power is uneceptable. > > Also recall the free market model assumes that the word is full of totaly > > rational pepeale who have full knowige of the market. Any one who has > > been on this list knows that these peaple are somewhat uncommen. > > I don`t see the model that way at all, I'm sorry but it is one of the fundermenalts of economic thory. [...] > the model is ethically right in that it allows businesses > and individuals to behave as they please as long as it harms no other > person, So allowing someone to stave to death because thay have the wrong collour of skin, or unwilling to get up close and personal with the boss, is not a form of harm. > sure, firing you may harm you by decreasing your income but this > is not an agressive act, it is a passive one: I have declined to offer > you, or keep you, in employment. Immagion there is a truck rolling out of conrol in your direction, keeping silent may harm you by preventing you from jumping out of the way, but this is not an agressive act, it is a passive one: I have declined to warn you. [1] Not that I am thay way enclined. - -- Please excuse my spelling as I suffer from agraphia see the url in my header. Never trust a country with more peaple then sheep. ex-net.scum and proud You Say To People "Throw Off Your Chains" And They Make New Chains For Themselves? --Terry Pratchett. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBNLeDGaQK0ynCmdStAQHzowP9HJvaXxE1/SI8uBsO2RhE03/qQL96vrLb KV5+CblQs8qwAoy7edKtl36i/jM1U7pUdJOr81GzvHR7/0SIxuZzWOHYVkQxhW6q jVF83U2MSToLFfRfsmwm2u+IfWZfqeqkL51L1DmdHm7CnntfviaSYssgRS0Ndaiw b+LGW4LhWYk= =7a6v -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: ? the Platypus {aka David Formosa} Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 00:02:12 +0800 To: "Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM" Subject: Re: [Humor] Kennedy's New Legislation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On Thu, 8 Jan 1998, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote: > Mark Rogaski writes: > > > An entity claiming to be Bill Stewart wrote: [...] > > : It's only evolution in action if it gets them before they've reproduced... > > : > > > > Actually, natural selection in action ... > > Same thing... There is a diffrence. It is only evoltion if there is a combernation of natural verence and natural selection. If you have a population of unchanging clones (your typical 'master race') you don't get any evoltion or improvement. - -- Please excuse my spelling as I suffer from agraphia see the url in my header. Never trust a country with more peaple then sheep. ex-net.scum and proud You Say To People "Throw Off Your Chains" And They Make New Chains For Themselves? --Terry Pratchett. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBNLeFiaQK0ynCmdStAQE0pwP+LGzDzFPvmhUJb1EGGdD2tlRlMR2I4vZA wv1Qv7TIp/WfjgJvEfntiOskd3rbmb8ovm7ovmQgj+m4CbHn8tFcKfRWKKQuFzU4 GIC53FYTUCYYkAPSVLwFVhR/XZ/TlgoWvlaOkjTO5K8vDmCV4C6x1R8B71beeX/+ 1+gjqIeEUNs= =pI6H -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 15:50:36 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Head up - Press civil rights spin-doctorism... Message-ID: <199801110815.CAA16906@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Hi, Check out the current 'Justice Files' on The Discovery Channle. The general gist is that individual prior to being proven a criminal have too many civil liberties and as a result police are hindered in their duties. It'd be pretty funny if it wasn't serious. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 16:18:00 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: Theory Behind USA v. Microsoft (fwd) Message-ID: <199801110844.CAA17065@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 23:13:28 -0800 > From: Bill Stewart > Subject: Re: Theory Behind USA v. Microsoft > The total amount of actual capital was pretty small - about > 5000-6000 cars at $1000 each, back when that was still real money, Half a million plus dollars is real money now too. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 16:24:53 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd) Message-ID: <199801110850.CAA17167@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 00:17:40 -0800 > From: Blanc > Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality > I went to an exhibit yesterday of Leonardo da Vinci, where I saw the 400 > year old Codex Leicester. He was "a keen observer" of Nature, and from > his detailed studies he learned much which provided his inventive mind with > much material for creative works. The exhibit brings to mind not only his > work, but the methods of such a great mind in reaching those heights and > breadths. Which one was it? I had the privilege of working on the IBM Leonardo exhibit when it was in Austin at Discovery Hall about 10 years ago. Part of my duties was to repair two of his models (the 'turtle' tank & his composite ship hull design) and got a real appreciation of his skills. There was a show on one of the cable science shows about Leonardo week before last. You might want to review your schedule and catch it. I found it quite entertaining and educational. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: lord_buttmonkey@juno.com (Matthew L Bennett) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 18:08:28 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: cypherpunks and guns In-Reply-To: <19980106005136.23824@eskimo.com> Message-ID: <19980111.045850.4894.3.Lord_Buttmonkey@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >If we have to resort to physical violence, >we've >already lost! No, we wouldn't. If we had to resort to physical violence against a government, than it needs it, you shouldn't need to do that if the Constitution is in effect. Otherwise... >Think about it: if we can defend ourselves with guns, why would we >need >crypto? Because holding up a PGP disk will not save your life if a robber/looter/IRS Agent breaks into your house. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Mix Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 20:06:32 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199801111151.DAA14980@sirius.infonex.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Timmy C. Maypole is a pimply dweeb sitting at a computer chortling at his own imagined cleverness. (/T\) _____ (/V\) (-,-) ()====) . + . . + ('.') Timmy C. Maypole \(o)/ -|3 . . . . J\~/L /=' ,OOO//| | .+ . <%%%%%%%%%%%O >|< \ooo, O:O:O LLLLL + . . . . I . //|\\ o:0:o \OOO/ || || . . . + . ~|~|~ \ooo/ C_) (_D _I I_ From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: lord_buttmonkey@juno.com (Matthew L Bennett) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 18:10:03 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: your mail In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <19980111.045850.4894.5.Lord_Buttmonkey@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >> >What is wrong selling privacy for money? >> >> It usually involves making it shitty. > >Oh yeah, that's the way free enterprise works... if you make your >product >shitty, your customers will pay more for it! Hey maybe if I do a >crappy >job, my employer will pay me more! Erm, no. Some businesses put out shoddy encryption products, regardless. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: lord_buttmonkey@juno.com (Matthew L Bennett) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 18:11:34 +0800 To: sheriff@speakeasy.org Subject: Re: Spam In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <19980111.045850.4894.7.Lord_Buttmonkey@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Sat, 10 Jan 1998 12:43:34 -0400 The Sheriff writes: >Some idiot finally sent me a junk e-mail message that >I couldn't do anything about with what I have the >knowledge to do -- reading the headers turned up only >one ISP, which was apparently owned by the spammer. It happens. >I'm hoping you guys would know where I could find out >more about this individual -- I'm hoping that he does >in fact buy his service from someone else, and if so, >I'm not sure how to find that out. If he doesn't, is >there anything I can do? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Yeah, there is. Delete the friggin e-mail like a sensible person. I get a lot of spam every day, but I just delete it and go on with my life. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Rabid Wombat Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 09:17:31 +0800 To: Anonymous Subject: Re: Congratulations! In-Reply-To: <29c1c353e00d6e916744745acc2ece93@anon.efga.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Just don't smurf them. I'm sure their service providor wouldn't like that, and it isn't nice. You should just hit the delete key, and respect their right to freely express themselves. p.s. - Thanks for the little white pills, Dr. Vulis. I'm feeling much happier now. On Sun, 11 Jan 1998, Anonymous wrote: > In a message dated 02:06 01/11/98 -0800, WebSoft Associates, wrote: > > > We at WebSoft Associates (http://www.websoftassoc.com) would like to > > congratulate you on your recent selection by Inc. Magazine as > > one of the 500 fastest growing private companies in the United States. > > Wow! The cypherpunks are a fucking business? Am I a stock holder? > > Ha-fucking-ha! > > Is this line supposed to convince us that this was a targeted e-mail and *not* > spam! Normally I just trash this stuff, but I really got a kick out of > that. I hope we can get to top 100 by the fall '98 > > > > > > > > From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Ryan Lackey Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 19:15:56 +0800 To: "Raymond D. Mereniuk" Subject: Re: In God We Antitrust, from the Netly News Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > [people disparaging the AMD/Cyrix Processors, as well as defending them] I have used a K6-200 overclocked to a K6-300 (83mhz bus speed) for some time now, mostly accomplishing the cooling issue by leaving it in my bedroom with the window open all winter. It's a great value -- for $200+$100 I got a processor and motherboard capable of PII-level performance in things like code compiles, etc. I've even hand-optimized some code for the K6 -- it's a great chip. If I find investors/customers/etc. by March-July 98 for Eternity DDS, though, I'm planning to buy 8 DEC AlphaPC motherboards with dual 21264 processors. Some pieces of Eternity DDS are now being implemented in Oracle for speed of implementation reasons, and other pieces are being prototyped in Scheme (maybe), so even my K6 is getting hammered. Plus, I'm now testing some kernel modifications, and having to reboot the only functional server, bring Oracle back up, initialize the world, bring up a web server and an encrypted filesystem, etc. all without disrupting service too much whenever I make a minor change, then do it every time I need to change one character in the kernel, is really annoying. Running the different services on different machines would be far more realistic and practical. [*Obcrypto*: I have gotten incredibly backed up with work of various kinds, and email. However, I still have time for silly web service questions. Here goes: Does anyone know of a way I can take a web server, say AOLserver, which does not support useful SSL, and also does not distribute source, and retrofit a useful 128-bit SSL implementation to it? It has a C API, but I haven't looked at the API enough to see if I could do it within the API. Are there any proxies which could be stuck between the insecure server and the user (preferably with an ssh link between the servers) which could provide SSL proxy service? It seems like this should be trivial to do, but I haven't tried yet, and I want to have some reedeming value for this post.] -- Ryan Lackey rdl@mit.edu http://mit.edu/rdl/ From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Ryan Lackey Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 19:24:12 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: openworld, inc. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Has anyone looked at these people? They seem to be selling turnkey systems for offshore digital commerce, among other things, which I believe is fundamentally interesting. However, they seem like they're involved in several traditional weird Government-affiliated international business startup/consulting group/etc. projects, like educational resources, and from what I remember of a Tim May response to them, they seemed to believe money laundering/thoughtcrime/etc. was morally reprehensible and the duty of technical people to prevent (I may be wrong, he may be wrong, they may be wrong...) [ObNonCrypto: I picked the 3-pin Medeco lock on the front of my IBM RS/6000 320 today. I was just kind of sitting here with my new picks and wrench and was bored and poking around, and I got it to go from Secure to Normal. Luckily the lock turns both ways, since I was picking it backwards :( I've been thinking about and off and on trying to pick it for several months now -- it's a pretty impressive lock for the case on a workstation. 3-pin Medecos are a pale comparison to the real ones, though. Guess what locks I will specify from now on...] -- Ryan Lackey rdl@mit.edu http://mit.edu/rdl/ From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Secret Squirrel Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 17:52:12 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Accounts payable Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >Timmy C[rook] May is just a poor excuse for an unschooled, retarded thug. > > (_) _____ (_) > /O O\ Timmy C[rook] May > ! I ! > ! \___/ ! > \_____/ Since when is Tim a government official? From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 00:05:44 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: [Humor] Kennedy's New Legislation In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980111002729.007cc410@otc.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain David Honig writes: > One of the reasons why all drugs should be legal > >is that people who should not breed will use the drugs to kill themselves, > >leaving more room/wealth/resources for their genetic superiors. > > Ah yes, the argument against required motorcycle helmets which looks for > the increased organ > harvest for transplants. > > Bogus reasoning. You are sovereign and can do with yourself as you please. > *That* is why substances should be legal and helmets should be optional. > Pragmatics are irrelevant. I *do* > wear seatbelts but it should be my choice, not > something the state can use violence to enforce. The above is just one of the reasons why all drugs should be legalized. As for helmets, seatbelts, et al, consider them in context: most kids stupid enough to ride a bike wihtout a helmet are already on welfare. If they get themselves certified brain-damaged (I don't know how the doctors tell the difference :-) they'll be stealing even more of my money through taxes. Therefore in the context of taxpayers paying the medical bills of these parasites, helmets can be required. > Pardon for the off-topic.. I try to find cryptorelevance in the publishing one's results v. secrecy thread. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 00:07:31 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: Zippo censors are losing customers In-Reply-To: <006d01bd1e74$d5de57c0$54cbffd0@default> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain "Dr. Jai Maharaj" writes: > > From: Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM > > > >Zippo is now censoring more people besides Colin. It may sound cheap > >but it's not worth $19/year. > > Now many discussion threads (not spam) are missing from DejaNews also. > They claim to be using "technology" developed by Zippo -- the following > press release is located at: It sounds like dejanews is applying nocem on spool, and also applying old nocems to their historical databases. (Does that include chris lewis's "trollcancels"?) Zippo refuses to accept articles where the From: is one of the many people they've blacklisted for content. See the recent article by Russ Allbery on net.config where he promotes panix's patches to nntp for something similar. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 00:42:30 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Shoddy crypto wares In-Reply-To: <19980111.045850.4894.5.Lord_Buttmonkey@juno.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain lord_buttmonkey@juno.com (Matthew L Bennett) writes: > >Oh yeah, that's the way free enterprise works... if you make your > >product > >shitty, your customers will pay more for it! Hey maybe if I do a > >crappy > >job, my employer will pay me more! > > Erm, no. > > Some businesses put out shoddy encryption products, regardless. In most industries, some vendors can get away with selling a shoddy product/ service because their cost of good sold is typically less, and they can charge a lower price, some some buys will go for it. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 01:43:49 +0800 To: Ryan Lackey Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I haven't been following the latest round of "Eternity" discussions. I gather that Ryan's efforts are distinct from Adam Back's efforts, which are themselves distinct from the seminal Ross Anderson researches (for example, at http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/users/rja14/eternity/node4.html). But Ryan's comments leave me with some questions: At 3:11 AM -0800 1/11/98, Ryan Lackey wrote: >If I find investors/customers/etc. by March-July 98 for Eternity DDS, though, >I'm planning to buy 8 DEC AlphaPC motherboards with dual 21264 processors. >Some pieces of Eternity DDS are now being implemented in Oracle for >speed of implementation reasons, and other pieces are being prototyped >in Scheme (maybe), so even my K6 is getting hammered. Plus, I'm now testing Will these be located in the U.S.? Will their locations be publicized? Will any offshore (non-U.S.) locations be publicized? Any file system which can be identified as to *location in some legal jurisdiction*, espeically in the U.S. but also probably in any OECD/Interpol-compliant non-U.S. locations, will be subject to COMPLETE SEIZURE under many circumstances: * if any "child porn" is found by zealous prosecutors to be on the system(s) * if any "national security violations" are found to be on the system(s) * if the Software Publisher's Association (SPA) decides or determines that the Eternity systems are being used for "warez" or other copyright violations. In addition, the file systems may be "discoverable" in any number of other legal situations, and of course subject to subpoenas of all sorts. And subject to court orders to halt operations, to participate in government stings, and so on. Basically, anything a remailer in some country may be subjected to--lawsuits by Scientology, kiddie porn charges, espionage charges, etc.--will be something an Eternity server is also subject to. Except that an Eternity file system is more clearly just a file storage system, like a filing cabinet or a storage locker, and hence is readily interpreted in courts around the world as something that law enforcement may seize, paw through, admit in court, etc. (Remailers are slightly better protected, for both reasons of "transience" and reasons of some protection under privacy laws, the ECPA, etc. We have not seen any major court orders directed at remailers, but I expect them soon. In any case, a file system containing "warez," child porn, corporate trade secrets, national security violations, defamatory material, etc., would not be ignored for long.) So, the talk about the hardware of all these Alpha servers raises some interesting questions. I would have thought that a much more robust (against the attacks above) system would involve: - nodes scattered amongst many countries, a la remailers - no known publicized nexus (less bait for lawyers, prosecutors, etc.) - changeable nodes, again, a la remailers - smaller and cheaper nodes, rather than expensive workstation-class nodes - CD-ROMS made of Eternity files and then sold or distributed widely - purely cyberspatial locations, with no know nexus (I point to my own "BlackNet" experiment as one approach.) It may be that the architectures/strategies being considered by Ryan Lackey, Adam Back, and others are robust against the attacks described above. Basically, if the Eternity service(s) can be traced back to Ryan or Adam or anyone else, they WILL be subject to court orders telling them to produce certain files, telling them to cease and desist with regard to certain distributions, and so on. Even raids to carry off the entire file system for analysis will be likely. Consider the Steve Jackson Games case, the Thomas/Amateur Action case, the Riverside/Alcor case, and other raids which have seized computers and file systems. Though some of these were later overturned, there was no general protection granted that a file system, which is like a filing cabinet (of course) is miraculously exempt from court action. It is also likely in the extreme that a working Eternity service will quickly be hit with attackers of various sorts who want to test the limits of the service, or who want such services shut down. Thus, expect all kinds of extremely controversial material to be posted....granted, this is a "reason" for such services, but see how long the system lasts when it contains child porn, Scientology secrets, lists of CIA agents in Europe, copies of Microsoft Office for download, and on and on. And even a decentralized, replicated system will of course still expose the owner/operator in some jurisdiction to his local laws. (As Julf was exposed to the laws in his country, and that was just the tip of the iceberg.) Eternity nodes must not be identifiable, and their locations must not be known. Anything else is just asking for major trouble. Comments? The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 00:06:31 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801110603.AAA16499@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Jim Choate writes: > > From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) > > > Blanc writes: > > > Initially your argument had to do with secrecy and the need for scientist > > > to publish their work so that the scientific community may benefit from i > > > > Not just the scientific community... everyone. If an art critic declines > > to publish something, its a loss probably only to his fellow art critics, > > but if a mathematician or a biologist or a physicist doesn't publish, it's > > a loss for more than just his colleagues. > > I believe this view to be fundamentaly flawed. Consider that if a particular > scientist doesn't publish (ala Fermat) then this does not inherently > prohibit or inhibit others from deriving the result (lot's of examples so I > won't pick a single one). You don't seem to realize that the likelyhood of someone independently rediscovering a "lost" math result is much less than the likelyhood of two people independently creating substantially similar works of art. For example, all of T.S.Elliot's poetry is substantially similar to Walt Whitman's poetry. They are, for most intents and purposes, mutually interchangeable. (Emily "lick my bud" Dickinson is almost interchangeable.) > However, when an artist or other practitioner of > human expression fails to publish then an item of unique character is lost. > Had T.S. Elliot not written 'Old Possum's Book of Practical Cats' it is > *very* unlikely that *anyone* in the entire remaining history of the > universe would have written those charming poems and we would be deprived > among other things of knowing why a cat has three names. I was using art critics as an example, not artists. Don't you know who art critics are? > In addition, the > fact that a given individual finds no worth in why a cat has three names > does not change the worth of the insight provided by the author. So, while a > given art critics views may not mean much to you this does not justify in > any manner trivializing that worth for others. Think why I thought of art/lit critics and not, e.g., archeologists. > To do so would indicate a > personality of extreme hubris and potentialy a severe sociopathy. Why thank you. > Expect > them to begin walking around with their hand in their vest at any moment. I've got to get me a vest... > The distinction is that human expression doesn't assume homogeneity nor > isotropy as science requires. Rather it assumes a priori that each activity > and it's result is unique in the history of the universe and fundamentaly an > expression of that *individual* view of experience. That is what art derives > it worth from while science derives its worth from the result being the same > irrespective of the practitioner. Well, you were just ranting about the non-euclidean geometries created by Gauss, Lobachevsky, and janos (not Farkas) Bolyai. Are they the same? Does their choice of words to express their mathematical ideas matter? Does it matter who published first? Would it be a loss for humanity if Lubachevsky, like Gauss, chose not to publish contraversial ideas? --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 00:08:40 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd) In-Reply-To: <34B85EED.2D12492D@avana.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain David Miller writes: > > ... If an art critic declines > > to publish something, its a loss probably only to his fellow art critics, > > but if a mathematician or a biologist or a physicist doesn't publish, it's > > a loss for more than just his colleagues. > > The author has a skewed view which says that science is more important > than > art. Simply not true. Don't get too narrow a view of "progress". David, you need to learn to read. "Art critic" != art, just like "lit crit" != literature. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 00:07:31 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980111001654.007047c8@cnw.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Blanc writes: > Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote: > > >Not just the scientific community... everyone. If an art critic declines > >to publish something, its a loss probably only to his fellow art critics, > >but if a mathematician or a biologist or a physicist doesn't publish, it's > >a loss for more than just his colleagues. > ......................................................................... > > There is a sense of loss of valuable information, once you know that it > existed before you knew about it. Of course, there are a million and one > things that we don't know today that we wish we knew, and which could help > everyone who has the need for that special knowledge. > > 1) But it is also true that the Truth (the facts of nature and principles > on what is possible - in mathematics, or any scientific pursuit) does not > "go away" simply because one person's discovery is not conveyed to > everyone. It remains true and in existence, waiting for anyone else to do > the work of discovery, or for mankind itself to evolve into the kind of > creature whose mind can grasp the principles involved. It is a loss not > to know the achievements of a great scientist's work, but the facts > themselves are not lost, they remain available for anyone who can think as > well, to find them. Think of Leonardo da Vinci's portrait of Mona Lisa. For reasons unknown to me, computer geeks like to use it in digitized form as an example of art. Had it been kept in the Versailles during the french revolution, it probably would have been looted and destroyed by the mobs. If that happened, computer geeks probably would be using some other famous work of art at their art fetish; perhaps the birth of venus because there the woman is nekkid(!). If some art critic (professional or amateur) expressed an opinion as to why computer geeks like Mona Lisa, that opinion would probably be of no consequence. And if Isaac Newton chose to write principa in english, rather than latin, it probably would have contained the same mathematical ideas. > 2) Scientists and other very original, competent people like to think they > can do as well as any one else, and I imagine sometimes they consider > insulting the proposition that they must depend upon the work of another in > order to achieve understanding; that without it they would be unable to do > as well. Isn't this one of the reasons for some of the conflicts between > scientists over originality, and the jealousy over recognition? That's why the society/the species benefits when scientific ideas are published and disseminated: other scientists exposed to these ideas come up with ideas of their own. > I went to an exhibit yesterday of Leonardo da Vinci, where I saw the 400 > year old Codex Leicester. He was "a keen observer" of Nature, and from > his detailed studies he learned much which provided his inventive mind with > much material for creative works. The exhibit brings to mind not only his > work, but the methods of such a great mind in reaching those heights and > breadths. > > So in relation to this debate on the morality of not sharing: would it not > be as good a thing to look toward method - to value and promote the ability > to know how to think, how to observe properly, how to understand what is > before oneself - than merely to consider ourselves dependent upon the > _result_ of the work of certain others, bewailing their insensitivity when > they fail to share with us what they obtained for themselves? Because this > does go in the direction of thinking in terms of "obligation", which is > rather unappreciative of their unique & separate identity. You're missing my point. If the society would benefit from a certain behavior, it should not rely on coercion, but use economic motivation to encourage it. Clearly NSF doesn't work any better than NEA. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Trei Family Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 23:48:04 +0800 To: coderpunks@toad.com Subject: More on the DES II contest. Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980111103458.006a3184@pop3.ziplink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Douglas F. Elznic and Lucky Green have both written saying that www.distributed.net will not be devoting their full effort to the DES II challenge. This is incorrect. www.distributed.net is a highly centralized effort, in which clients are almost completely controlled by the central site, with which they are in frequent communication. Over the past few weeks, the clients have been upgraded to a version containing dual search cores - they can search either rc5-64 or an arbitrary DES key. On the morning of the 13th, as soon as the DES II challenge data becomes available, their servers will stop issuing rc5-64 blocks and start issuing DES II blocks. The clients will all switch over to the DES II contest without any action by the owners of the client machines. I too would like to see a serious effort made at a 512 bit RSA key. However, the infrastructure for this is quite a bit more complex than a simple bruteforce against a symmetric key, and the organizers of d.n don't seem to be ready for it. My greatest fear with DES II is that if d.n finds the key early in the search, they may decide to sit on it until just before the 540 hour deadline. If they are the only group with a credible chance of finding the key (as far as I know, this is the case), then their payback is maximized by by this tactic, since the time limits for the June contest are determined by the speed with which the key is found in January. My personal impression is that d.n seems more motivated by the money, which they want to further their research on distributed computing, than they are by ideology. The above represent my personal, private views, and should neccesarily be attributed to my employer. Peter Trei trei@ziplink.net ptrei@hotmail.com (more reliable next week) From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 00:13:49 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd) Message-ID: <199801111639.KAA18272@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd) > From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) > Date: Sun, 11 Jan 98 10:08:56 EST > David, you need to learn to read. > > "Art critic" != art, just like "lit crit" != literature. And you need to pay more attention as well. Being an art critic does not exclude the art in the act of critical review. The expression of emotional and intellectual consequence of the piece under review requires a creative act just as valid as the creation of the piece under review. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 00:18:12 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd) Message-ID: <199801111642.KAA18314@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd) > From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) > Date: Sun, 11 Jan 98 09:51:22 EST > You don't seem to realize that the likelyhood of someone independently > rediscovering a "lost" math result is much less than the likelyhood of > two people independently creating substantially similar works of art. Malarky, the history of science (and of human civilizations) is replete with example after example of idividuals discovering the same basic theme and its proof. Just the three examples we have been using (Newton, Gauss, Fermat) are filled with comments about contemporaries discovering the same result. Review Darwin for a moment, he chose to share the fame for evolutionary theory with Wallace because he had reached the same conclusion. Had either Darwin or Wallace not chose to publish the result would still have been found and shared. > For example, all of T.S.Elliot's poetry is substantially similar to > Walt Whitman's poetry. They are, for most intents and purposes, mutually > interchangeable. (Emily "lick my bud" Dickinson is almost interchangeable.) Only in the context that they are both poets who write poetry. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Bill Stewart Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 04:08:50 +0800 To: Jim Choate Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980111114033.008afae0@popd.ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain If you begin by assuming that a free market will automagically acquire someone with monopoly control who can prevent all competitors from acting, you've got a rather different view of free markets than I do, and you're basically assuming that anarchy is unmaintainable in economies, from which the obvious conclusion is "so don't even try." There are people who believe the same about political anarchy. However, I don't see you presenting any reasoning for the belief that a free market will become non-free and acquire a head. Rather the opposite appears to have been the case in most environments where the economic actors don't have political actors supporting their bids for monopoly. At 11:42 PM 1/10/98 -0600, Jim Choate wrote: >Given that anarchist don't support a 'head' in regards to human activities >*and* that a free market monopolizes thus creating a 'head' it is clear >that if we apply the ideas of human society (ie political systems) to >economics we derive a fundamental conflict, that a anarchist in the economic >sphere is left with no choice but to agree that economic systems must be >managed and creates a 'head' either by plan or monopolistic fiat. > >Therefore the original thesis that such political models are applicable to >economic ones is flawed. It simply is not possible for an economic system to >exhist without some sort of 'head' or guiding structure. This is >fundamentaly at odds with the definition and spirit of anarchy. Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 01:47:01 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Eternity Services (fwd) Message-ID: <199801111813.MAA18576@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 09:39:00 -0800 > From: Tim May > Subject: Eternity Services > under privacy laws, the ECPA, etc. We have not seen any major court orders > directed at remailers, but I expect them soon. Tell that to Julf. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Bill Stewart Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 05:42:10 +0800 To: Ryan Lackey Subject: Re: Adding SSL to things In-Reply-To: <"Raymond D. Mereniuk"'s message of Sat, 10 Jan 1998 20:05:03 +0000> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980111132145.00883540@popd.ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 06:11 AM 1/11/98 -0500, Ryan Lackey wrote: >Does anyone know of a way I can take a web server, say AOLserver, which >does not support useful SSL, and also does not distribute source, and >retrofit a useful 128-bit SSL implementation to it? It has a C API, but >I haven't looked at the API enough to see if I could do it within the API. >Are there any proxies which could be stuck between the insecure server >and the user (preferably with an ssh link between the servers) which could >provide SSL proxy service? It seems like this should be trivial to do, >but I haven't tried yet, and I want to have some reedeming value for this >post.] Why not just get a server that _does_ have useful SSL support, like Apache-SSL (for non-US freeware) or Stronghold (for US commercial use)? There are workarounds out there for undersecure clients, like SafePassage and some German Java applet, but that's the easy side. Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Anonymous Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 03:27:31 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: Congratulations! Message-ID: <29c1c353e00d6e916744745acc2ece93@anon.efga.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain In a message dated 02:06 01/11/98 -0800, WebSoft Associates, wrote: > We at WebSoft Associates (http://www.websoftassoc.com) would like to > congratulate you on your recent selection by Inc. Magazine as > one of the 500 fastest growing private companies in the United States. Wow! The cypherpunks are a fucking business? Am I a stock holder? Ha-fucking-ha! Is this line supposed to convince us that this was a targeted e-mail and *not* spam! Normally I just trash this stuff, but I really got a kick out of that. I hope we can get to top 100 by the fall '98 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Information Security Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 03:57:26 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Dimitry Vulis need attention again Message-ID: <199801111946.OAA02193@panix2.panix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > Received: by uu.psi.com (5.65b/4.0.061193-PSI/PSINet) via UUCP; > id AA29722 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 98 10:24:07 -0500 > Received: by bwalk.dm.com (1.65/waf) > via UUCP; Sat, 10 Jan 98 10:03:36 EST > for cypherpunks@toad.com > To: cypherpunks@toad.com > Subject: Re: your mail > From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) > > Anonymous writes: > > > >On Thu, 8 Jan 1998 13:54:41 -0700 (MST) Graham-John Bullers > > > writes: > > >>On Thu, 8 Jan 1998, Mix wrote: > > >> > > >>I think Vulis needs each of us to send ten copies of this back to him. > > > > > >I think so too what's his email address????? > > > > > > > > > > > >Anonymous304 > > > > Uh, you subscribe to the list but you can't find Vulis' address? Just how > > stupid are you? > > Guy Polis is indeed very stupid. His former colleagues at J.P.Morgan > and Salomon bros, where he used to be a consultant, remember him as > a very stupid guy. "Polis" is an arcane Scandanavian (sic) word for "Police". That's as creative as Ukranian-Romainian-Gypsie Vulis can do. Vulis couldn't even hack it in Manhatten, and had to leave. His brother, Michael, said the family disowns Dimitry as the asshole of the family line. ---- Regarding emailing Vulis to show him some appreciation: as you can see from the headers, he is so disliked that he needs to connect to the Net using UUCP! HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA And so, he has to download his mail before filtering/reading it, and domain 'dm.com' is MX wild-carded to accept all references. So, wouldn't it be funny if people started signed _him_ up for Eureka, Russian Jewish Singles dating, etc? Also, simply sending him largish missives will tie up his poor UUCP link. So, if it doesn't violate your local TOS, I think all of us should let Dr. Dim hear about it until he cleans up his act. ---guy fool@dm.com fool@bwalk.dm.com gypsie@bwalk.dm.com MaysRevenge@bwalk.dm.com From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 07:52:03 +0800 To: Adam Back Subject: Re: Eternity Services In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 3:06 PM -0800 1/11/98, Adam Back wrote: >Archiving USENET as a separable enterprise which charges for access >(altavista for example charges via advertisements) seems less >problematic than directly trying to build a database of controversial >materials. Archiving it all partly reduces your liability I think, >because you are not being selective, you just happen to have a >business which archives USENET. However there are two problems with >this: a) volume -- USENET daily volume is huge; b) the censors will >ask you to remove articles they object to from the archive. News spool services are already showing signs of getting into this "Usenet censorship" business in a bigger way. Some news spool services honor cancellations (and some don't). Some don't carry the "sensitive" newsgroups. And so on. Nothing in their setup really exempts them from child porn prosecutions--no more so than a bookstore or video store is exempted, as the various busts of bookstores and whatnot show, including the "Tin Drum" video rental case in Oklahoma City. >The solution I am using is to keep reposting articles via remailers. >Have agents which you pay to repost. This presents the illusion of This of course doesn't scale at all well. It is semi-OK for a tiny, sparse set of reposted items, but fails utterly for larger database sets. (If and when Adam's reposted volumes begin to get significant, he will be viewed as a spammer. :-) ) >> - CD-ROMS made of Eternity files and then sold or distributed widely > >This is an interesting suggestion, but surely would open the >distributor up for liability, especially if copyright software were >amongst the documents. Were you thinking of > The CD-ROM distribution is just a side aspect, to get some set of data widely dispersed. For example, if the data base is of "abortion" or "euthanasia" information (a la Hemlock Society), which various parties want suppressed, then handing out freebie CD-ROMs is one step. Many examples of this: Samizdats in Russia, crypto/PGP diskettes handed out at conferences (was Ray Arachelian doing this several years ago?), and various religious and social tracts. Obviously, this is what broadsheets and fliers are designed to do. Self-publishing in general. If the intent is to collect money for the data base accesses, then of course other considerations come into play. (Critical to these "Eternity" things is a good model of the customers, the reasons for the data, etc.) >> - purely cyberspatial locations, with no know nexus >> >> (I point to my own "BlackNet" experiment as one approach.) > >This is the best option. Make it entirely distributed, so there is no >nexus, period. cyberspacial -> meatspace mappings are often easier to >trace than we would wish, especially where there is continued usage >(for example there are various active attacks which can make progress >even against mixmaster remailers). This is the weak point of my >reposting agent, be that human, or automated. My model, contained in the actual working software (*), allowed customers to pick some topic, enclose a public key and payment, use a remailer to post, then collect the information some time later. Using Usenet, but not by reposting the actual data. Only pointers. (* I say "working" in the sense that the concept was very easy to demonstrate just by using PGP and remailers. Not much more than what I demonstrated in 1993 would be needed to deploy a real system. Except for one thing: true digital cash. Not the bullshit one-way-traceable stuff that Chaum and others are now pushing, but the original, online-cleared or escrow-cleared form, a la the work of Goldberg et. al. For some of these applications, below, simple token- or coupon-based schemes might work adequately.) How these models will work using existing infrastructure (Usenet, remailers, Web proxies, etc.) depends on some factors. It might be useful to consider some benchmark applications, such as: 1. Anonymous purchase of financially important data. (A good example being the Arbitron ratings for radio markets...subscription to Arbitron is quite expensive, and posting of results on Usenet is prosecuted by Arbitron. A good example of a BlackNet market.) 2. Anonymous purchase of long articles, e.g., encycopedia results... (I'm not sure there's still a market for this....) 3. Anonymous purchase of "term papers." (A thriving market for ghostwritten articles...already migrating to the Web, but lacking adequate anonymizing methods.) This is an example of a very large data base (all term papers on file) which cannot possibly by distributed feasibly by Usenet. And so on...lots of various examples. The whole Eternity thing is interesting, but we haven't made a lot of progress, it seems to me. (I distributed a proposal a bit similar to what Ross Anderson was proposing, a proposal more oriented toward making a _persistent_ Web URL for academics and lawyers to reliably cite, with less of the "404--File Not Found" sorts of messages, the things which make the Web largely unusable for academic and scientific citations.) >> It is also likely in the extreme that a working Eternity service will >> quickly be hit with attackers of various sorts who want to test the limits >> of the service, or who want such services shut down. > >I agree with this prediction. Remailers have seen this pattern, with >`baiting' of operators, and apparently people posting controversial >materials and reporting the materials to the SPA or others themselves, >etc. Yep, it's hard to disagree with this. Any centralized "Eternity service" will be hit with various kinds of attacks in quick order. Building a data base, as Ryan comments seem to indicate he is mostly interested in doing, is the least of the concerns. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: The Sheriff Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 06:32:09 +0800 To: lord_buttmonkey@juno.com (Matthew L Bennett) Subject: Re: Spam In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>I'm hoping you guys would know where I could find out >>more about this individual -- I'm hoping that he does >>in fact buy his service from someone else, and if so, >>I'm not sure how to find that out. If he doesn't, is >>there anything I can do? > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >Yeah, there is. > >Delete the friggin e-mail like a sensible person. > >I get a lot of spam every day, but I just delete it and go on with my >life. Look, I realize I was probably asking a stupid question, but you don't have to be quick with me. I figured that there were some things that I could do that I simply didn't know about, beyond the simplicity of returning the spam the postmaster, root, and abuse account of the last ISP the spam was routed through. My interest isn't simply in getting rid of the spam. "Empty Trash" is a pretty simple concept on Eudora. What I want to do is fight the flow -- and while there may be as many as 10 spammers per ISP out there, every spam I do something about is one less server that accepts messages for routing that don't come from one of their accounts. If that doesn't make sense to you, don't bother answering the e-mail next time, eh? Best wishes and fresh-roasted peanut taste, The Sheriff. -- ****** - --- As kinky as it sounds, finger me to see my PGP key and confirm the signature attached to this message. Either that, or head for pgp.ai.mit.edu on the WWW and search for my e-mail address. - --- Any and all SPAM will be met with immediate prosecutory efforts. Solicitations are NOT welcome here! - --- ----BEGIN INFLAMATORY BLOCK---- Version: 160 (IQ) Comments: Definitely one of their greatest misses. Reporter: "Do you know what Public Enemy is?" - --- Citizen: "Public enemy?" [long pause] "Probably somebody in office." -----END INFLAMATORY BLOCK----- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBNLqJ2ABMw4+NR29ZAQG0YAf/ZJ0mbwUKZYJH9f6MHxjVUcGmr4C0GLNB v0CaGBYx51vZhUxbpS8DQUzJLB/wOY1B+8XSgBH0j6TxOyUqygn4Nmiju4cKE6Tm 1T95PM0rWxvHNUT91PDgy6Lxb+8r54w6jj1HhjpNwJScNJwF4+qB1+TuZDZAW0+e bmOSlq3w57GuO9+z1l87AVbS1ulu8UlileQDW6gZBdYWflvappFXfkUdde/N+j6r CMVUR7gkF4WVBWGJuce1GMpy1KnQWCdU9nswNDps0/R7CeicxhpFe98qAGVdCuiw jUX9blcjA708xMHwfY4saJ3PDpzY/efQ3W7LDYfsjhXcg/Cc3klhKA== =VRUN -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 08:13:29 +0800 To: David Miller Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 3:35 PM -0800 1/11/98, David Miller wrote: >There is one thing that comes to mind that was just a topic covered on >this >list and that is the use of cellular/wireless/RF/ham for connections to >said machines. > >Obviously, this would make seizure more difficult (and perhaps increase >the >likelyhood of prior warning, if for example, cellular service was >suddenly >cut off). In terms of "work factor," such connections are nearly worthless. They might be a bit harder to trap or trace than typical connections, but they are only "security through obscurity" compared to the effort to break a typical cipher. (Put another way, would you feel safe hosting a child porn site just because some of the links were over ham radio or the like? I wouldn't. I'd be waiting for the FCC vans to triangulate....or for the cellphone companies to "cooperate," as they so often have.) --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: The Sheriff Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 06:32:04 +0800 To: Bill Stewart Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- At 8:26 PM -0800 1/10/98, Bill Stewart wrote: >>>> Umm, no, freedom doesn't work like that. If you open a *private* >>>> establishment, you have the right, according to the constitution, to >>>> deny *anyone* the right to enter or eat in your restraunt. > >I don't see freedom of association listed anywhere there; >you might construe it as a "taking" or something, but it'd be a stretch. >Also, there was a really appalling court case in the 1890s >(Plessey vs. Ferguson), in which the Supremes ruled that states >could require segregation with separate but equal accommodations; >it was somewhat overturned by Brown vs. Board of Education in 1954, >but the idea that the government can tell you how to run your business >is long established (after all, we'd need much smaller governments >if they couldn't be interfering in business.) Firstly, something being long-established doesn't make it right. SO, let's look at it this way, regarding the freedom of association. You have the freedom to associate with whom you choose, don't you think? It's not in the constitution, but you would throw a fit if Uncle Sam told you that it was illegal for you to go play baseball with little Billy if little Billy was black and you were white. AND, in my not so humble opinion, If you have the freedom to play with little Billy, then you have the freedom to tell little Billy to go fuck himself because you refuse to play with "niggers." Sam Adams (as it may or may not have been mentioned on this list) himself had a problem with our constitution -- he didn't think that it was right for the people to ratify the bill of rights, thereby protecting certain rights under the constitution. Why? Simple. He was of the mind that setting our rights, such as the right to free speech, in concrete meant that anything NOT set in concrete wasn't a right -- he felt that by ratifying the bill of rights, rather than using logic as I did above, we were actually LIMITING our rights as freely roaming human beings. >>>Tell that to Denney's restaurants. (No, not in the United Fascist >>>States of Amerika you can't.) > >>Apologies. In *theory* you have those rights, on *paper*, you have those >>rights, but in *practice*, you're correct, the Government has power that >>it gleefully abuses, forcing others to comply w/ political correctness. >> >>I'd like some more info on this Denny's thing. > >A Denny's restaurant in Maryland had two groups of customers >show up one day, one group black, one group white, both about 6-8 people, >both arriving at the same time, both groups out-of-uniform cops. >The white people got served promptly, the blacks got served >extremely late and rudely. And sued, and won. Sadly, America has become less of a home to the free and the brave, and more of a home to the pissed and the laywers. I remember an experience where I was lounging in a booth at a Perkins with a few friends of mine. Two of them were sitting on one side (they were dating at the time), and I was stretched across the cushion on the other side. The manager came up to me and told me to sit up straight, or he would ask me to leave. I lit a cigarette and told him to go fuck himself. He asked me to leave. I did so, my friends in tow, and we refused to pay the $40 bill on our way out. America should be about not taking any shit from anybody -- not because you can sue, but because you have enough attitude to realize when the other guy's being an idiot, and because you have enough balls to tell him so. Best wishes and fresh-roasted peanut taste, The Sheriff. -- ****** - --- As kinky as it sounds, finger me to see my PGP key and confirm the signature attached to this message. Either that, or head for pgp.ai.mit.edu on the WWW and search for my e-mail address. - --- Any and all SPAM will be met with immediate prosecutory efforts. Solicitations are NOT welcome here! - --- ----BEGIN INFLAMATORY BLOCK---- Version: 160 (IQ) Comments: Definitely one of their greatest misses. Reporter: "Do you know what Public Enemy is?" - --- Citizen: "Public enemy?" [long pause] "Probably somebody in office." -----END INFLAMATORY BLOCK----- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBNLqKEgBMw4+NR29ZAQHQkQgAzyup+DhoMDPRPuXPS36o7qjRBAbfcxPG Rwyme05AjYo4v/VUIAcP0fCrw2PTWD3X3H7xRDRqq5YP/U3ZCZa/S63uMtdoe7bf to2zfCVFcD0ym6765XCnV4iYsp7+VlTFSGNzCw5ur0S25wwztg774XlM1bjpiw5N pF9g67DSOMRfJqWyeMrcw6QUcon6LJR0+HU6VmNdvisxBQd5sdh7WoKw+VCklCjE KFRvfxgmFVgoM8sBxUKyI6U0X3HqWZS8PwRQZFr5B6YT3duFn6AEdr9EInbZL8/p fCaQTt3jb95DBnHEipYEsq0bSpI3+f603/qoSGPrgvjoRuOXwq491A== =dML4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 09:16:06 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: BlackNet Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Someone just asked me for an explanation of "BlackNet," as he hadn't heard of it before. There are several places to look: --a Web search on the term, along with "cypherpunks" or "cryptography" or my name so as to narrow down the search somewhat (apparently some persons of color decided to use BlackNet as their group's name, thus leading to some collisions_ --archives of the list, partially available at http://infinity.nus.sg/cypherpunks/ --my Cyphernomicon, available at http://www.oberlin.edu/~brchkind/cyphernomicon/ --another article, available at http://www.powergrid.com/1.01/cryptoanarchy.html --or, the item below, part of a chapter called "True Nyms and Crypto Anarchy," which may or may not appear in the forthcoming edition of Vernor Vinge's "True Names." This section discusses data havens, and the BlackNet experiment in 1993: DATA HAVENS AND INFORMATION MARKETS Another science fiction writer, Bruce Sterling, popularized "data havens" in his 1988 novel, "Islands in the Net." He focussed on _physical_ data havens, but cyberspace data havens are more interesting, and to likely to be more important. That they are distributed in many legal jurisdictions, and may not even be traceable to any particular jurisdiction, is crucial. A data haven is a place, physical or virtual, where information may be stored or accessed. The usual connotation is that the data are illegal in some jurisdictions, but not in the haven. Data havens and information markets are already springing up, using the methods described to make information retrievable anonymously and untraceably. Using networks of remailers and, of course, encryption, messages may be posted in public forums like the Usenet, and read by anyone in the world with access, sort of like a cyberspatial "Democracy Wall" where controversial messages may be posted. These "message pools" are the main way cyberspatial data havens are implemented. Offers may be in plaintext, so as to be readable to humans, with instructions on how to reply (and with a public key to be used). This allows fully-untraceable markets to develop. It is likely that services will soon arise which archive articles for fees, to ensure that a URL (Uniform Resource Locator) is "persistent" over a period of many years. Ross Anderson's "Eternity Service" provides a means of distributing the publication of something so that even later attempts to withdraw all copies are thwarted...this has obvious value in fighting censorship, but will also have implications when other types of publication occur (for example, a pirated work would not be withdrawable from the system, leaving it permanently liberated) Examples of likely data haven markets are: credit data bases, doctor and lawyer data bases, and other heavily-regulated (or even unallowed) data bases. Information on explosives, drug cultivation and processing, methods for suicide, and other such contraband info. Data havens may also carry copyrighted material, sans payment to holders, and various national and trade secrets. As one example, the "Fair Credit Reporting Act" in the U.S. limits the length of time credit records may be kept (to 7 or 8 years) and places various restrictions on what may be collected or reported. What if Alice "remembers" that Bob, applying for credit from her, declared bankruptcy ten years earlier, and ran out on various debts? Should she be banned from taking this into account? What if she accesses a data base which is _not_ bound by the FCRA, perhaps one in a data haven accessible over the Net? Can Alice "sell" her remembrances to others? (Apparently not, unless she agrees to the various terms of the FCRA. So much for her First Amendment rights.) This is the kind of data haven application I expect will develop over the next several years. It could be in a jurisdiction which ignores such things as the FCRA, such as a Caribbean island nation, or it could be in cyberspace, using various cryptographic protocols, Web proxies, and remailers for access. Imagine the market for access to data bases on "bad doctors" and "rip-off lawyers." There are many interesting issues involved in such data bases: inaccurate information, responses by those charges, the basis for making judgements, etc. Some will make malicious, false charges. (This is ostensibly why such data bases are banned, or heavily regulated. Governments reserve the rights to make such data available. Of course, these are the same governments which falsify credit records for government agents, which give the professional guilds like the American Medical Association and the American Bar Association the power to stop competitors from entering their markets, so what else can be expected?) Information markets match potential buyers and sellers of information. One experimental "information market" is BlackNet, a system I devised in 1993 as an example of what could be done, as an exercise in guerilla ontology. It allowed fully-anonymous, two-way exchanges of information of all sorts. The basic idea was to use a "message pool," a publicly readable place for messages. By using chains of remailers, messages could be untraceably and anonymously deposited in such pools, and then read anonymously by others (because the message pool was broadcast widely, a la Usenet). By including public keys for later communications, two-way unreadable (to others) communication could be established, all within the message pool. Such an information market also acts as a distributed data haven. As Paul Leyland succinctly described the experiment: "Tim May showed how mutually anonymous secure information trading could be implemented with a public forum such as Usenet and with public key cryptography. Each information purchaser wishing to take part posts a sales pitch and a public key to Usenet. Information to be traded would then have a public key appended so that a reply can be posted and the whole encrypted in the public key of the other party. For anonymity, the keys should contain no information that links it to an identifiable person. May posted a 1024-bit PGP key supposedly belonging to "Blacknet". As May's purpose was only educational, he soon admitted authorship." An example of an item offered for sale early on, in plaintext, was proof that African diplomats were being blackmailed by the CIA in Washington and New York. A public key for later communications was included. This is just one example. There are reports that U.S. authorities have investigated this market because of its presence on networks at Defense Department research labs. Not much they can do about it, of course, and more such entities are expected. The implications for espionage are profound, and largely unstoppable. Anyone with a home computer and access to the Net or Web, in various forms, can use these methods to communicate securely, anonymously or pseudonymously, and with little fear of detection. "Digital dead drops" can be used to post information obtained, far more securely than the old physical dead drops...no more messages left in Coke cans at the bases of trees on remote roads. Payments can also be made untraceably; this of course opens up the possibility that anyone in any government agency may act as a part-time spy. Matching buyers and sellers of organs is another example of such a market, although one that clearly involves some real-world transfers (and so it cannot be as untraceable as purely cyberspatial transactions can be). A huge demand (life and death), but there are various laws tightly controlling such markets, thus forcing them into Third World nations. Fortunately, strong cryptography allows market needs to be met without interference by governments. (Those who are repelled by such markets are of course free not to patronize them.) Whistleblowing is another growing use of anonymous remailers, with those fearing retaliation using remailers to publicly post their incriminating information. The Usenet newsgroups "alt.whistleblowing" and "alt.anonymous.messages" are places where anonymously remailed messages blowing the whistle have appeared. Of course, there's a fine line between whistleblowing, revenge, and espionage. Ditto for "leaks" from highly-placed sources. "Digital Deep Throats" will multiply, and anyone in Washington, or Paris, or wherever, can make his case safely and anonymously by digitally leaking material to the press. Gibson foresaw a similar situation in "Count Zero," where employees of high tech corporations agree to be ensconced in remote labs, disconnected from the Nets and other leakage paths. We may see a time when those with security clearances are explicitly forbidden from using the Net except through firewalled machines, with monitoring programs running. Information selling by employees may even take whimsical forms, such as the selling of topless images of women who flashed for the video cameras on "Splash Mountain" at Disneyland (now called "Flash Mountain" by some). Employees of the ride swiped copies of the digital images and uploaded them anonymously to various Web sites. Ditto for medical records of famous persons. DMV records have also been stolen by state employees with access, and sold to information broker, private investigators, and even curious fans (the DMV records of notoriously reclusive author Thomas Pynchon showed up on the Net). Rumors are that information brokers are prepared to pay handsomely for a CD-ROM containing the U.S. government's "key escrow" data base. The larger issue is that mere laws are not adequate to deal with these kinds of sales of personal information, corporate information, etc. The bottom line is this: if one wants something kept secret, it must be kept secret. In a free society, few personal secrets are compelled. Unfortunately, we have for too long been in a situation where governments insist that people give out their true names, their various government identification numbers, their medical situations, and so on. "And who shall guard the guardians?" The technology of privacy protection can change this balance of power. Cryptography provides for "personal empowerment," to use the current phrasing. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 07:47:48 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: Eternity Services (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801111813.MAA18576@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Jim Choate writes: > > From: Tim May > > > under privacy laws, the ECPA, etc. We have not seen any major court orders > > directed at remailers, but I expect them soon. > > Tell that to Julf. I recall that it was a police request, not a court order, not that it makes much difference. However the difference between Julf's remailer and the chained remailers is that Julf's machine actually contained the database of the real addresses and anon aliases. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 07:47:45 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: A further thought on free markets & anarchy... (fwd) Message-ID: <199801120013.SAA19485@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 11:40:33 -0800 > From: Bill Stewart > Subject: Re: A further thought on free markets & anarchy... > If you begin by assuming that a free market will automagically acquire > someone with monopoly control who can prevent all competitors from acting, > you've got a rather different view of free markets than I do, First, it isn't magic. It is the realization that any market is limited by several factors (eg number of customers, limited raw resources, startup costs) and that even a small superiority in one businesses ability to produce their service or product over time will provide them with an increased share of those limited resources and the share in profits that acrue as a result. As their share, and hence their control over, those resources increases the competitors are faced with the prospect of having to go to the competitor to get what they need in order to compete. It is *not* a part of any free market theory that I am aware of that pre-supposes that a given business entity will, for whatever reason, of its own free will guarantee the continued existance of competition. If anything the long term goal of any business is to reduce competition. If we accept the commen view of free markets and the one you seem to be saying is the reality, we shouldn't worry about Microsoft. One morning they'll all wake and realize that if they don't keep HP, Sun, IBM, Apple in business they won't have competition. As a consequence of that realization they will in fact provide contracts or other forms of renumeration to their competitors to keep them in business and hence able to take potential sales away from Microsoft. What I am saying is given the environment and goals of operating a for-profit firm the supposition that a free market will somehow prevent monopolization is incorrect. I am saying that a free market economy when operating without outside 3rd party guidance or some form of economic bill of rights will by its very nature monopolize and reduce competition due to nothing more than minute superiorities of individual business models and the efficiency those businesses acrue over time as a result. > and you're basically assuming that anarchy is unmaintainable in economies, > from which the obvious conclusion is "so don't even try." But the free market model as currently understood is an anarchy, at least at the beginning. The reason that it falls into this category is that there is no governing body or bill of rights. Each business is left to its own ends and the consequences thereof. There are no externaly enforced limitations on business practices in this model. Further, regulation of unfair (whatever that means in a free market - personaly I thinks its a spin doctorism equivalent to saying you can have an anarchy without inherent use of violence) practices is completely abandoned other than the assumption that eventualy competitors and consumers will learn of those practicies and quite dealing with that business. The problem with that assumption is that by the time such practices become known there may be no competitors and the consumers only option might be to simply have to do without the item completely. In the case of a life sustaining resource this is no option at all. > There are people who believe the same about political anarchy. The point I am making is that the arguments that support political models of social activity are not mappable to the economic ones in a simple one-to-one method as the free market model (and many others) assume in a axiomatic manner. That in fact, because of the inherent limitations of a market which is not one-to-one mappable to the range of human expression (the field of social systems) which has no inherent limitations in resources or means such comparisons are flawed by this axiomatic assumption. > However, I don't see you presenting any reasoning for the belief > that a free market will become non-free and acquire a head. The history of economics is filled with examples of markets without regulation becoming monopolized. There was the example yesterday or the day before regarding some rail baron and how they cornered the oil market because they realized the efficiency advantage of using rail based oil carriers. Look at Microsoft, the airlines prior to federal regulation. The the long-haul trucking industry, the teamsters, etc., etc. > Rather the opposite appears to have been the case in most environments > where the economic actors don't have political actors supporting > their bids for monopoly. Microsoft certainly didn't have political supperiorty? And how can you in good faith sneak in this concept of 'political superiority' into a discussion of free markets which a priori and in an axiomatic manner require that such regulation and their inherent regulatory bodies do *not* exist and most certainly do not inhibit or otherwise limit the options available to a commerical enterprise in that market. Smacks of changing the rules in the middle of the game. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: David Miller Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 07:39:26 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Re: Eternity Services In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <34B9572E.49F34FBA@avana.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Tim May wrote: > I would have thought that a much more robust (against the attacks above) > system would involve: > > - nodes scattered amongst many countries, a la remailers > > - no known publicized nexus (less bait for lawyers, prosecutors, etc.) > > - changeable nodes, again, a la remailers > > - smaller and cheaper nodes, rather than expensive workstation-class nodes > > - CD-ROMS made of Eternity files and then sold or distributed widely > > - purely cyberspatial locations, with no know nexus > > (I point to my own "BlackNet" experiment as one approach.) > > It may be that the architectures/strategies being considered by Ryan > Lackey, Adam Back, and others are robust against the attacks described > above. > > ... > > Comments? There is one thing that comes to mind that was just a topic covered on this list and that is the use of cellular/wireless/RF/ham for connections to said machines. Obviously, this would make seizure more difficult (and perhaps increase the likelyhood of prior warning, if for example, cellular service was suddenly cut off). I am currently studying some parallels between the established FCC tolerance of ham radio self-regulation vis-a-vis anonymous remailers. I haven't yet drawn up my opinions, as they are still being formed. I think that this might be one avenue to look down as there is obviously a type of legal precident in what is allowed/tolerated under obvious FCC jursidiction, whereas the jurisdiction over IP is obviously still ambiguous. --David Miller middle rival devil rim lad Windows '95 -- a dirty, two-bit operating system. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Kent Crispin Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 11:23:19 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: cypherpunks and guns In-Reply-To: <19980106005136.23824@eskimo.com> Message-ID: <19980111191317.34304@songbird.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Sun, Jan 11, 1998 at 03:34:58AM -0500, Matthew L Bennett wrote: > >If we have to resort to physical violence, > >we've > >already lost! > > No, we wouldn't. If we had to resort to physical violence against a > government, than it needs it, you shouldn't need to do that if the > Constitution is in effect. Otherwise... > > >Think about it: if we can defend ourselves with guns, why would we > >need > >crypto? > > Because holding up a PGP disk will not save your life if a > robber/looter/IRS Agent breaks into your house. Reread the question. -- Kent Crispin, PAB Chair "No reason to get excited", kent@songbird.com the thief he kindly spoke... PGP fingerprint: B1 8B 72 ED 55 21 5E 44 61 F4 58 0F 72 10 65 55 http://songbird.com/kent/pgp_key.html From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 09:05:19 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com Subject: unit1.html Message-ID: <199801120129.TAA19851@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Unit 1: The Scope and Method of Economics [INLINE] UNDER CONSTRUCTION Read "Case and Fair": Chapter 1 - pages 1-20. _________________________________________________________________ A. Definition of Economics Economics is the study of how individuals and societies choose to use the scarce resources that nature and previous generations have provided. The key word in this definition is "choose". Economics is a behavioral science. In large measure it is the study of how people make choices. _________________________________________________________________ B. Why study economics? 1. To learn a way of thinking: This summer we are going to learn to think like economists - to use tools that will help us analyze complex situations in the real world of economics. 2. To understand society: Past and present economic decisions have an influence on the character of life in a society. 3. To understand global affairs: Understanding international relations begins with knowledge of the economic links among countries. 4. To be an informed voter: When you participate in the political process, you are voting on issues that require a basic understanding of economics. _________________________________________________________________ C. The difference between micro and macro economics Microeconomics deals with the functioning of individual industries and the behavior of individual economic decision-making units - business firms and households. It explores the decisions that individual businesses and consumers make - firms' choices about what to produce and how much to charge, and households' choices about what and how much to buy. Macro economics looks at the economy as a whole. Instead of trying to understand what determines the output of a single firm or industry, or the consumption patterns of a single household or group of house holds, it examines the factors that determine national output and income. While micro economics focuses on individual product prices, macro economics looks at the overall price level and its behavior over time. Micro economics questions how many people will be hired or laid off in a particular industry and the factors that determine how much labor a firm or industry will hire. Macro economics deals with aggregate employment and unemployment: how many jobs exist in the economy as a whole, and how many people are willing to work but unable to find jobs.. We are going to be using this word "aggregate" a lot. It refers to the behavior of firms and households taken together. For example, aggregate consumption refers to the consumption of all the households in the economy; aggregate investment refers to the total investment made by all firms in the economy. There are some topics which micro and macro economics share. For example, the study of how government policy affects the economy. However, again micro economics looks at these effects on the level of the individual firm or household, macro economics considers the effects of policy on the economy as a whole.. The micro economic foundations of macro economics. There is also another important relationship between the two branches of economics and this is what is called the micro economic foundations of macro economics. This is a fairly new development and one which is trying to reconcile the assumptions and principles of micro economic analysis with efforts to understand the economy as a whole. For example, in efforts to understand inflation, macro economists are now trying to include micro economic ideas about the way that prices adjust to changes in supply and demand.. _________________________________________________________________ D. The relationship between economics and social philosophy. One of the first economists was an Englishman by the name of Adam Smith. (Some would say he was the first economist.) Born in the early part of the 18th century, Smith developed the idea of the "invisible hand" and was the first to describe the relationship between supply and demand in a free market economy. He described himself as a "social philosopher". Social philosophy is concerned with fairness. It deals with questions such as: Why are some people rich and others poor? Is it fair that 90% of the country's wealth is controlled by 5% of the population? Is the progressive income tax, which taxes a higher proportion of the income of the wealthy, fair? These questions are still relevant and are the subject of economic policy. _________________________________________________________________ E. Economic Policy A policy is a plan that guides action. An example of an economic policy would be the Federal government's plan to keep the economy working at full employment. Anyone can recommend macro economic policies but it is up to governments to implement them. In general we judge the outcomes of any policy according to four criteria: 1. Efficiency: In economics we say that a policy is efficient if it leads to outcomes that help the economy produce what people want at the least possible cost. 2. Equity or fairness: This is obviously hard to define because fairness like beauty depends on who's looking, but in general terms we could say that an economic policy is fair if it leads to outcomes in which the costs and benefits are shared in a way that is proportional to a person's participation. 3. Growth: At the present time economic policies are also judged according to whether or not they lead to increases in output. I say "at present" because some economists are beginning to question the assumption that economic growth is always a good thing. 4. Stability: In economics stability is defined as the condition of the economy in which output is growing at a steady rate, with low inflation and full employment. Currently, the Federal Reserve is defining stability as a growth rate of about 3%, with inflation between 2% and 3% and unemployment between 5% and 6%. _________________________________________________________________ F. What economists do. In addition to making policy recommendations, economists spend a lot of time formulating theories and developing models. These two words have more or less the same meaning in economics that they do in other academic disciplines. A theory is a coherent set of hypotheses which make statements about the way the world works. To illustrate this idea of theory, the text refers to what is known as "the law of demand". This so-called law is really just a well-tested hypothesis which states that when prices fall, people tend to buy more, and vice versa. A theory is said to be "good" if its hypotheses turn out to valid statements about the real world and if it has predictive power. I should say at this point that very few economic theories, particularly in macro economics, have predictive power. A model is just a formal statement of the theory, usually a mathematical statement. Several institutions have built huge models of the US economy and how it works that have hundreds of equations linked together. These big models usually run on computers. When we visit the Federal Reserve in San Francisco we will see one of these models in action. We will also be working with a number of smaller models and a large number of pictures of models. The text points out two common errors that are made when people develop theories or build models. These are: 1. The post hoc fallacy: This mistake is made when someone mistakes an association between two variables for a cause and effect relationship. My favorite example of this is taken from a study done in Holland at the end of WWII which showed a positive relationship between the number of storks inhabiting a certain city and the number of babies born. 2. The fallacy of composition: This has to do with the belief that what is true for the part is also true for the whole. There are many examples of this kind of thinking in economics. For example, we have seen over a very long period of time the benefits of free markets - the efficiencies in individual markets that are created whenever people are free to pursue their own self-interest. However, it might be a mistake to assume that pursuit of one's own self interest was the best thing for society as a whole. You cannot prove a theory. It is important to note that neither theories nor models can ever be proved beyond the shadow of a doubt. The best we can say of a theory is that it is consistent with the facts as currently observed and that it is seems to have predictive power. Another fact about theories is that they are always based on certain assumptions which have to be accepted for the theory to work. For example, in economic theory two of the most important assumptions are (1) that people make rational choices based on analyzing costs and benefits and (2) that people try to maximize utility. Another important assumption that is rarely discussed is that the world of economics can be understood by understanding the behavior of discrete variables. All of these assumptions are now under attack. _________________________________________________________________ G. Other Important Concepts Introduced in Chapter 1 1. Opportunity Cost: This can be understood as the cost of lost opportunities. An example would be the opportunity cost of coming to Skyline this summer. This cost is measured by the wages I could have been earning if I had decided to work instead. The reason that opportunity costs exist is because resources are scarce; it is an especially important concept in economics where we are often trying to measure the costs and benefits of different economic choices, policies, etc. 2. Marginal: This refers to the "last unit" and is also an important factor in making economic choices. For example, suppose the publisher of our textbook is trying to calculate the costs of producing more books. In making this calculation, Prentice Hall would only consider the marginal or additional costs of just these new books. The money they have already spent would be irrelevant. These are the sunk costs and even though they would be included in a calculation of average costs, they wouldn't influence the decision to produce additional books. 3. Markets - free and regulated, efficient and inefficient: Markets can be free or regulated, efficient or inefficient. Most markets in the real economy represent some combination of these qualities. A market is said to be free if buyers and sellers are free to come together and make deals without government interference. A regulated market is one where the government sets at least some of the rules. For example, the stock market is relatively free - people can buy and sell shares of stock without much interference from the government. However, the Securities and Exchange Commission establishes many rules in this market, particularly for companies who wish to sell their stock. An efficient market is one in which there is a very rapid circulation of information and in which profit opportunities are grabbed up almost as soon as they appear. Inefficiencies arise wherever the flow of information is restricted and where people are not free to take advantage of profit opportunities. 4. Ceteris Paribus: This is a Latin phrase which mean "all else equal" and refers to the difficulty of analyzing more than two variables at a time. It is trotted out by economists when they want to emphasize the fact that they are looking at a single relationship, holding everything else constant. For example, "The amount of a good or service that people want is inversely related to the price, ceteris paribus." The things that are held constant in this example are the tastes and preferences of consumers, the availability of substitutes etc. [LINK] Return to Econ 100 Home page [LINK] Problem Set for Unit 1 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: David Miller Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 08:44:04 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Re: Eternity Services In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <34B96667.28BD98CB@avana.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Tim May wrote: > In terms of "work factor," such connections are nearly worthless. They > might be a bit harder to trap or trace than typical connections, but they > are only "security through obscurity" compared to the effort to break a > typical cipher. Even if the signals can be distributed on par with the distribution of the data itself? Could this be a 'meta' application that has not been considered? Perhaps not, because sigint analysis normally increases an attacker's intelligence on the subject and doesn't decrease it. > (Put another way, would you feel safe hosting a child porn site just > because some of the links were over ham radio or the like? I wouldn't. I'd > be waiting for the FCC vans to triangulate....or for the cellphone > companies to "cooperate," as they so often have.) No, I wouldn't either. Your point here indicates that whereas historically privacy was increased through movement, the reverse may be true now or at least at some future date. Namely, that entities are (or will be) tracked by their movement and not simply location. --David Miller middle rival devil rim lad Windows '95 -- a dirty, two-bit operating system. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: ? the Platypus {aka David Formosa} Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 18:32:29 +0800 To: "Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM" Subject: Re: [Humor] Kennedy's New Legislation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On Sat, 10 Jan 1998, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote: > ? the Platypus {aka David Formosa} writes: [...] > > There is a diffrence. It is only evoltion if there is a combernation of > > natural verence and natural selection. If you have a population of > > unchanging clones (your typical 'master race') you don't get any evoltion > > or improvement. > > In case of homo sapiens, it is the same thing. Of cause, I'm just pedantic enought to point this out. - -- Please excuse my spelling as I suffer from agraphia see the url in my header. Never trust a country with more peaple then sheep. ex-net.scum and proud You Say To People "Throw Off Your Chains" And They Make New Chains For Themselves? --Terry Pratchett. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBNLiJ76QK0ynCmdStAQFvVQP+Kxu345PppVVJsfBpmDv779NwbdrG5T28 wkxXH1JokaYstwdRFaW3fi84fuBtrqTmQFQpwZ0F3fCyZ3nxPf8aug3AOxqAzdsE NP4OsTYga5VqP+4ugjzKmjiOZYbyuaSshtFaVHA4wjZ42t7IzBDNWHxOadnNxFFP qfbbBPpDQuk= =yQdZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Akasha" Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 09:23:42 +0800 To: Tim May Subject: Re: (eternity) Re: Eternity Services In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <34B96FB1.46162042@netsense.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Tim May wrote: > At 3:06 PM -0800 1/11/98, Adam Back wrote: > > >Archiving USENET as a separable enterprise which charges for access > >(altavista for example charges via advertisements) seems less > >problematic than directly trying to build a database of controversial > >materials. Archiving it all partly reduces your liability I think, > >because you are not being selective, you just happen to have a > >business which archives USENET. However there are two problems with > >this: a) volume -- USENET daily volume is huge; b) the censors will > >ask you to remove articles they object to from the archive. > > News spool services are already showing signs of getting into this "Usenet > censorship" business in a bigger way. Some news spool services honor > cancellations (and some don't). Some don't carry the "sensitive" > newsgroups. And so on. Nothing in their setup really exempts them from > child porn prosecutions--no more so than a bookstore or video store is > exempted, as the various busts of bookstores and whatnot show, including > the "Tin Drum" video rental case in Oklahoma City. > > >The solution I am using is to keep reposting articles via remailers. > >Have agents which you pay to repost. This presents the illusion of > > This of course doesn't scale at all well. It is semi-OK for a tiny, sparse > set of reposted items, but fails utterly for larger database sets. (If and > when Adam's reposted volumes begin to get significant, he will be viewed as > a spammer. :-) ) > > >> - CD-ROMS made of Eternity files and then sold or distributed widely > > > >This is an interesting suggestion, but surely would open the > >distributor up for liability, especially if copyright software were > >amongst the documents. Were you thinking of > > > > The CD-ROM distribution is just a side aspect, to get some set of data > widely dispersed. For example, if the data base is of "abortion" or > "euthanasia" information (a la Hemlock Society), which various parties want > suppressed, then handing out freebie CD-ROMs is one step. > > Many examples of this: Samizdats in Russia, crypto/PGP diskettes handed out > at conferences (was Ray Arachelian doing this several years ago?), and > various religious and social tracts. Obviously, this is what broadsheets > and fliers are designed to do. Self-publishing in general. > > If the intent is to collect money for the data base accesses, then of > course other considerations come into play. > > (Critical to these "Eternity" things is a good model of the customers, the > reasons for the data, etc.) > > >> - purely cyberspatial locations, with no know nexus > >> > >> (I point to my own "BlackNet" experiment as one approach.) > > > >This is the best option. Make it entirely distributed, so there is no > >nexus, period. cyberspacial -> meatspace mappings are often easier to > >trace than we would wish, especially where there is continued usage > >(for example there are various active attacks which can make progress > >even against mixmaster remailers). This is the weak point of my > >reposting agent, be that human, or automated. > > My model, contained in the actual working software (*), allowed customers > to pick some topic, enclose a public key and payment, use a remailer to > post, then collect the information some time later. Using Usenet, but not > by reposting the actual data. Only pointers. > > (* I say "working" in the sense that the concept was very easy to > demonstrate just by using PGP and remailers. Not much more than what I > demonstrated in 1993 would be needed to deploy a real system. Except for > one thing: true digital cash. Not the bullshit one-way-traceable stuff that > Chaum and others are now pushing, but the original, online-cleared or > escrow-cleared form, a la the work of Goldberg et. al. For some of these > applications, below, simple token- or coupon-based schemes might work > adequately.) > > How these models will work using existing infrastructure (Usenet, > remailers, Web proxies, etc.) depends on some factors. It might be useful > to consider some benchmark applications, such as: > > 1. Anonymous purchase of financially important data. (A good example being > the Arbitron ratings for radio markets...subscription to Arbitron is quite > expensive, and posting of results on Usenet is prosecuted by Arbitron. A > good example of a BlackNet market.) > > 2. Anonymous purchase of long articles, e.g., encycopedia results... > > (I'm not sure there's still a market for this....) > > 3. Anonymous purchase of "term papers." (A thriving market for ghostwritten > articles...already migrating to the Web, but lacking adequate anonymizing > methods.) > > This is an example of a very large data base (all term papers on file) > which cannot possibly by distributed feasibly by Usenet. > > And so on...lots of various examples. > > The whole Eternity thing is interesting, but we haven't made a lot of > progress, it seems to me. (I distributed a proposal a bit similar to what > Ross Anderson was proposing, a proposal more oriented toward making a > _persistent_ Web URL for academics and lawyers to reliably cite, with less > of the "404--File Not Found" sorts of messages, the things which make the > Web largely unusable for academic and scientific citations.) > > >> It is also likely in the extreme that a working Eternity service will > >> quickly be hit with attackers of various sorts who want to test the limits > >> of the service, or who want such services shut down. > > > >I agree with this prediction. Remailers have seen this pattern, with > >`baiting' of operators, and apparently people posting controversial > >materials and reporting the materials to the SPA or others themselves, > >etc. > > Yep, it's hard to disagree with this. Any centralized "Eternity service" > will be hit with various kinds of attacks in quick order. > > Building a data base, as Ryan comments seem to indicate he is mostly > interested in doing, is the least of the concerns. > > --Tim May > > The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography > ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- > Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, > ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero > W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, > Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. > "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." Please remove me from the mailing list. Thanks From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 13:12:04 +0800 To: Ryan Lackey Subject: Re: Eternity Services In-Reply-To: <199801112306.XAA00525@server.eternity.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain My comments below are not meant to cast doubt on Ryan Lackey's scheme, but just to raise some questions. I am surprised, I have to admit, that Ryan is talking so much about raising money, getting investors, etc., when no _working model_ of his scheme has been deployed for people to play with, find weaknesses in, etc. (In comparison to, say, remailers, which have existed for more than five years now, with literally thousands of articles--some good, some bad--written about them in all of their various facets. Even specialized lists for remailer operators, Mixmaster-type remailers, etc. And yet there have been no serious calls for investors to pour money in.) Frankly, in reading Ryan's summary, including assertions like "In my system, no one knows (ideally) who is actually storing the data, only those on the edges of the system (who will hopefully only be known by a logical address)," I find no real discussion of the *core idea*, the _reason_ his data base is in fact secure. (I apologize if a full discussion is contained in his earlier documents. Even if his earlier documents had a fuller description, there has certainly been an almost complete lack of discussion of his system here in Cypherpunks. Given the additional complexitities an Eternity type data base has over something as conceptually simple as a remailer, the lack of discussion is not confidence-inspiring that Ryan somehow got it all right.....) Anyway, I can think of all sort of threat models, and ways of (maybe) attacking any system of linked machines I can think of, except ones using message pools (which is why I'm biased in favor of Blacknet, I suppose). (The motivation for Blacknet was to a) demonstrate message pools, b) show that anyone could be a node, c) build a system where the links between nodes are all of the traffic in "speech space," and that so long as encrypted messages could be posted in speech space (Usenet, boards, etc.), then the system could not be shut down. Basically, to stop Blacknet one would have to ban remailers in all jurisdictions, or ban speech coming from certain jurisdictions. Otherwise, it's too distributed to stop.) (Note: But Blacknet has long latency, derived from its "speech" underpinnings. There is the temptation to go to faster links, to move away from speech space into traditional network links. But this reduces the number of nodes and links, and makes an attack on the reduced-but-faster network no longer equivalent to interfering with free speech. A technological win but a political lose.) Until we see a mathematical model--forget the details of implementation, the epiphenomenal stuff about Oracle, AOLServer, Alphas, and K6s!--of how N distributed nodes store incoming files in such a way that the goals of Eternity can be satisfied... (And we need to discuss in more detail just what the goals can realistically, and economically, be.) There are a bunch of issues which come up, motivated by Ryan's comments that he already has the design of a file system in mind: - why won't all machines in the network in Country A simply be shut down, regardless of whether the Authorities can prove which machine in particular is storing the banned material? After all, when a kiddie porn ring has its computers seized, the Authorities don't necessarily have to prove exactly which disk sector (or even which disk drive) is storing a file...they can either seize the lot, and prosecute successfully, that the ensemble was the nexus, or instrumentality of the crime. To paraphrase Sun, "the network _is_ the crime." - given the problems remailer networks have to deal with, with traffic analysis and correlation analysis (an area we have alluded to but not done serious work on), why would not the same methods be applicable to tracking movements through the system Ryan is apparently proposing? (I believe a 20 MB child porn video MPEG sent into the Eternity network would leave "footprints" an analyst or watcher could track. I am willing to be show the error of my ways, but only with some calculations of diffusion entropy, for example.) - In short, I want to see some simple descriptions of WHAT IS GOING ON. It has always been very easy for us to describe how networks of remailers work--so simple that at the very first Cypherpunks meeting in '92 we played the "crypto anarchy game" with envelope-based remailers, message pools, digital cash, escrow, etc. (Running this simulation took several hours, but taught us a lot.) I'd like to know how Eternity DDS _works_. Then we can start mounting attacks on it: spoofing attacks, denial of service attacks, and attacks assuming various levels of observability into the network linking the nodes. Until then, I think it's a waste of time and money to be coding a detailed implementation of a protocol. (And it may _still_ be a waste of money, even after the protocol is beat upon thoroughly. There is no clear market for such a service, and not even for remailers. And maybe not even for PGP, in terms of paying customers sufficient to pay the bills. Not to criticize PGP, just noting the obvious, the same obvious situation that seems to be the case with digital cash. Great idea, but where are the customers?) Thanks, The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 11:12:22 +0800 To: cypherpunks@www.video-collage.com Subject: Re: Spam In-Reply-To: <3092d7f2431e74ea40b5d0ad22244ca3@squirrel> Message-ID: <199801120305.VAA00843@manifold.algebra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text There are very good ways of filtering email, as well as methods of "proper" exposure to email harvesting bots. My suggestions are: 1. Create a "spam" mailbox that will be used to collect all email that looks like spam. It is much easier to review this mailbox once in a couple of days than to look at spam in the mail email mailbox. 2. Create one or more mailfolders for mailing lists you receive. Save all mailing list messages to them. (you may want to save everything that was sent by *owner* as it is likely to be legitimate mailing list messages). 3. Everything else that does NOT mention one of your legitimate addresses is likely spam, and needs to be saves into the spam mailbox. 4. Keep a database of spamming patterns and spamming domains and save everything matching these patterns to the spam mailbox. (my database is attached below). 5. Post to USENET using an address that reaches you, but is different from your email address. Anything that comes in as sent to that address (usually Received: field contains the destination address) but does not start with Re: or is not addressed to that address is spam, and needs to be saved into the spam mailbox. 6. This will inevitably flag some legitimate messages as spam. Be careful reviewing the spam mailbox. igor ^From: trichosis@noci.com ^From:.*chaspub@onecom.com ^From:.*@news-release.com ^From:.*isp-inter.net ^To: All@Internet.Users ^From:.*success@ ^From:.*orders@compugen.net ^From:.*dispatch@cnet.com ^Received:.*isp-inter.net ^From: distributor@jax.gulfnet.com ^From: NETDATA Intl Inc ^From ChrisMSW1@aol.com ^Reply-To: phnxgrp ^From: sbear1@earthlink.net ^From: .*@pwrnet.com ^From: gary@safetydisk.com ^Subject: How to get MORE ORDERS for ANYTHING you sell ^Subject: EL Cheepo Web pages ^Message-Id: Ready Aim Fire ^Message-Id: RAF ^Subject: Saw you Online\! ^Subject: THINNING HAIR ^From: express@capella.net ^From: .*fgle5@ziplink.net ^From: .*softcell.net ^To: bubbac@webconnect.com ^Received: .*IQ-Internet.com ^From: freedom ^To: Friend@public.com ^To: .Recipient list suppressed. ^Received: .*Cyber Promotions ^From: money@ ^From: rocket3@ibm.net ^From: Svetlana ^From: .*remove@ ^From: .*@GettingRich.com ^Subject: .*README! It may change your life forever! ^X-Shocking-Web-Page: ^To: you@ ^X-Advertisement: ^From: .*@shoppingplanet.com ^X-Mailer: Emailer Platinum ^From: dkg@sparrow.spearhead.net ^From: .*floodgate ^Igor Chudov @ home, ^Subject: Your Family Name From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Blanc Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 14:10:57 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980111213213.0071be38@cnw.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote: >You're missing my point. If the society would benefit from a certain behavior, >it should not rely on coercion, but use economic motivation to encourage it. >Clearly NSF doesn't work any better than NEA. ........................................................................ Nah, I saw your point, but just forgot to mention it. I do agree with you, except a bit with the part about the source of encouragement (of course, I would agree against bringing coercion into the picture, banish the thought). To be even more precise about this, it is the ones in society whom you might imagine should provide 'encouragement', or 'incentivization', who need to develop an appreciation and recognition for certain values, since they're aiming for real benefits. Creative, inventive people don't really need that much motivation, but it's their potential market who could stand to 'graduate towards the light', so to speak. Then there would exist more educated, seeking, paying, clients/investors. In any case the creative types still have to, like most all other enterprises, search for the right market, the willing investor, the interested customer/client. It's a great thing that the net can now bring these two more easily together, helping each to find the other. Even if they still can't trust each other, but must resort to lawyers to keep things clear & clean and moral. (smiley) .. Blanc From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Ryan Lackey Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 10:48:16 +0800 To: Bill Stewart Subject: Re: Adding SSL to things In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980111132145.00883540@popd.ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: <199801120241.VAA12033@the-great-machine.mit.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain AOLserver (formerly GNN's NaviServer) has better RDBMS integration features than the apache crowd. Phil Greenspun's site, www.photo.net, uses roughly the same software I'm using (I asked him for advice, he swayed me from Apache to AOLserver). Once Apache has better Oracle integration, I might go back to it, since I do like having source to as much as possible, but right now, being able to easily and efficiently link Oracle to the web server is a bit more important than source or simple to implement SSL. -- Ryan Lackey rdl@mit.edu http://mit.edu/rdl/ From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Adam Back Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 07:17:05 +0800 To: elitetek@usa.net Subject: Re: (eternity) mailing list and activity In-Reply-To: <34B9327A.2AAEEF87@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: <199801112144.VAA00285@server.eternity.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain [I've Cc'ed this to cypherpunks from discussion on eternity@internexus.net] Jeff Knox writes: > I do have a few questions. I am curios as to how i would go about > creating a domain service. If i wanted to start a domain service to > server a domain i create like test.dom, how would i run a server to > processes the request, and how would all the other servers around > the world cooperate? Firstly note that there are 3 (three) systems going by the name of eternity service at present. Ross Anderson coined the term, and his paper which describes his eternity service, you should be able to find somewhere on: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/users/rja14/ Next, my eternity prototype which I put a bit of time into hammering out last year in perl, borrows Ross's name of "eternity service", but differs in design, simplifying the design by using USENET as the distributed database / distribution mechanism rather than constructing one with purpose designed protocols: http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/eternity/ And there is Ryan Lackey's Eternity DDS (where DDS stands for I presume Distributed Data Store?). I am not sure of the details of his design beyond that he is building a market for CPU and disk space, and building on top of a an existing database to create a distributed data base accessible as a virtual web space (amongst other `views'). He gave this URL in his post earlier today: http://sof.mit.edu/eternity/ To answer your question as applied to my eternity design, I will describe how virtual domains are handled in my eternity server design which is based on USENET as a distributed distribution medium. A proto-type implementation, and several operational servers are pointed to at: http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/eternity/ In this design the virtual eternity domains are not based on DNS. They are based on hash functions. Really because it is a new mechanism for accessing information URLs should perhaps have the form: eternity://test.dom/ Where a separate distributed domain name lookup database is defined, and a distributed service is utilised to host the document space. However because it is more difficult to update browsers to cope with new services (as far as I know, if anyone knows otherwise, I'd like pointers on how to do this), I have represented URLs of this form with: http://test.dom.eternity/ This would enable you to implement a local, or remote proxy which fetched eternity web pages, because you can (with netscape at least) direct proxying on a per domain basis. Using the non-existant top level domain .eternity, you can therefore redirect all traffic for that `domain' to a local (or remote) proxy which implements the distributed database lookup based on URL, and have normal web access continue to function. My current implementation is based on CGI binaries, so does not work directly as an eternity proxy. Rather lookups are of the form: http://foo.com/cgi-bin/eternity.cgi?url=http://test.dom.eternity/ The virtual eternity URLs (URLs of the form http://*.eternity/*) are converted into database index values internally by computing the SHA1 hash the URL, for example: SHA1( http://test.dom.eternity/ ) = d7fa999054ba70e1ed28665938299061b519a4f7 The database is USENET news, and a distributed archive of it; the database index is stored in the Subject field of the news post. The implementation optionally keeps a cache of news articles indexed by this value on eternity servers. If the required article is not in the cache it is searched for in the news spool. Currently this is where it stops, so articles would have to be reposted periodically to remain available if articles are either not being cached, or are flushed from the cache. However the cache is never flushed, because the cache replacement policy is not currently implemented. An improvement over this would be to add a random cache flushing policy and have servers serve the contents of their cache to each other forming a distributed USENET news article cache. Another option would be to search public access USENET archives such as dejanews.com for the requested article. The problem is really that we would prefer not to keep archives of articles directly on an open access server, because the server's disks could be seized, and the operator could be held liable for the presence of controversial materials. Wei Dai suggested that documents should be secret split in a redundant fashion so that say 2 of 5 shares are required to reconstruct the document. If the shares are distributed across different servers, this ensures that one server does not directly hold the information. Ross describes ideas on how to ensure that a server would not know what shares it is holding in his paper which can be found on his web pages, the url being linked from: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/users/rja14/ Adam From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: John Young Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 11:23:04 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Crypto Jokes Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980112032221.010342d4@pop.pipeline.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Inspired by "Crypto Kong," contributions of crypto jokes are requested, to enliven our Web site, which is pretty gray these days without congressional buffoonery. Thigh-slappers are preferred, but since one person's humor is another's pain, any bizarre tales of woe, stupidity and vanity are welcomed. Short as possible, like Adam's three swines of pearl. Sure, anonymous zingers are great. No pay, no apologies for missing the point. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Ryan Lackey Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 11:28:40 +0800 To: Tim May Subject: Re: Eternity Services In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801120324.WAA12254@the-great-machine.mit.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > I haven't been following the latest round of "Eternity" discussions. I > gather that Ryan's efforts are distinct from Adam Back's efforts, which are > themselves distinct from the seminal Ross Anderson researches (for example, > at http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/users/rja14/eternity/node4.html). Yes, all three efforts are distinct at present. My "secret" plan is to try to get a technical design document and demo which are so compelling that in the end it merges into one Eternity project, though :) > > But Ryan's comments leave me with some questions: > > > At 3:11 AM -0800 1/11/98, Ryan Lackey wrote: > > >If I find investors/customers/etc. by March-July 98 for Eternity DDS, though, > >I'm planning to buy 8 DEC AlphaPC motherboards with dual 21264 processors. > >Some pieces of Eternity DDS are now being implemented in Oracle for > >speed of implementation reasons, and other pieces are being prototyped > >in Scheme (maybe), so even my K6 is getting hammered. Plus, I'm now testing > > Will these be located in the U.S.? Will their locations be publicized? Will > any offshore (non-U.S.) locations be publicized? Hopefully I can allay your fears. I want the alphas for testing and compiling during the not-yet-production phase. They'll be located in one place, subject to being shut down legally or extralegally. However, there will be no production data on them, so there will be no reason to shut them down. To attack them preemptively would be less efficient than simply killing the maybe 20 people in the world who are involved with Eternity development. I want to have a cluster of machines on which to simulate a working eternity system. I'm trying to develop interconnect protocols which scale to a large number of users with the minimum possible trust, no particularly vulnerable points, etc. Even me personally owning any substantial amount of machines involved in a production Eternity implementation while living in the US would be risky -- I want people to be able to continue to use Eternity even if I turn out to be a secret NSA agent bent on world domination. > [vulnerability of any identified servers] To this I add the threat of illegal action by enemies of users of the system, government or otherwise. As a result, having *any* of the nodes be locatable on a network or in physical space is a threat. Knowing the IP addresses of all the Eternity servers in the world would be enough to let you flood them out of existence. Unfortunately, in order for Eternity to be accessible to the world in some way, some nodes need to have public logical addresses in some way. This opens up a bunch of pathways to attack. Eternity DDS has market-based protocols to try to hinder these attacks. > So, the talk about the hardware of all these Alpha servers raises some > interesting questions. > > I would have thought that a much more robust (against the attacks above) > system would involve: > > - nodes scattered amongst many countries, a la remailers > > - no known publicized nexus (less bait for lawyers, prosecutors, etc.) > > - changeable nodes, again, a la remailers > > - smaller and cheaper nodes, rather than expensive workstation-class nodes > > - CD-ROMS made of Eternity files and then sold or distributed widely > > - purely cyberspatial locations, with no know nexus > > (I point to my own "BlackNet" experiment as one approach.) Yes, that's effectively what I'm trying to do. Eternity DDS is currently being developed on the "Athena model" as a bunch of interoperating services with general utility as well. During testing, I'm using stuff like Oracle to prototype large sections of the application. I've run hundreds of clients off my K6 talking to a couple of servers on my K6. This does not mean that the production system will involve my k6 in any way, except perhaps as my client. I think that Eternity is effectively a massive distributed database, in that a filesystem is a kind of database. I also think selling just storage is kind of silly -- one needs to take into account bandwidth and computation as well, in order to allow people to do truly interesting things. With a sufficiently trusted JVM, one could execute some subset of java code remotely fairly securely. I'm planning to have interfaces to the Eternityspace which make it look like a massive web server, a massive traditional database server, a filesystem, ftp, email server, etc. This helps functionality and security. The design is a compromise between security and efficiency. In many cases being distributed is good for both, but in at least two areas, trying to make E-DDS distributed is making it less efficient. I forsee that the initial limited production system will have a nexus in that the auction market will probably be run by my organization through a geographically-dispersed network of machines with byzantine fault tolerance. I also forsee an initial small number of nodes interfacing Eternity DDS to the world (via the web, database protocols, filesystem protocols, etc.). While there will be encryption between those servers and their clients, they will be targets for attack -- however, there are a bunch of techniques for making them ephermeal, some of which you have mentioned. > > It may be that the architectures/strategies being considered by Ryan > Lackey, Adam Back, and others are robust against the attacks described > above. I hope so. > > Basically, if the Eternity service(s) can be traced back to Ryan or Adam or > anyone else, they WILL be subject to court orders telling them to produce > certain files, telling them to cease and desist with regard to certain > distributions, and so on. Even raids to carry off the entire file system > for analysis will be likely. > I hope to leave the country before Eternity DDS goes public. I think raids on US sites, or unprotected foreign sites, are highly likely, legal or otherwise. I don't believe any government will provide any real defense for an identified Eternity server or nexus or involved person, once it starts being used for corporate espionage, money laundering, political activism, etc. The only defense is to make sure the collateral damage from taking it out is high enough that they won't, like an inoperable tumor (a 10mm does a good job of removing most individual cancer, but sometimes killing the patient is unacceptable) Hopefully, the designers of the first production Eternity service can make themselves irrelevant enough to not be worth killing, and/or difficult enough to kill that the collateral damage from killing them would be unacceptable. > It is also likely in the extreme that a working Eternity service will > quickly be hit with attackers of various sorts who want to test the limits > of the service, or who want such services shut down. Thus, expect all kinds > of extremely controversial material to be posted....granted, this is a > "reason" for such services, but see how long the system lasts when it > contains child porn, Scientology secrets, lists of CIA agents in Europe, > copies of Microsoft Office for download, and on and on. Yes. I'm designing for the worst. > > And even a decentralized, replicated system will of course still expose the > owner/operator in some jurisdiction to his local laws. (As Julf was exposed > to the laws in his country, and that was just the tip of the iceberg. I'm planning to move to the most laissez-faire location possible. I also want to make myself irrelevant once the system enters production (which does not necessarily mean I won't try to get rich, just that if someone corrupts or kills me it won't make any difference to the operation of the system). > Eternity nodes must not be identifiable, and their locations must not be > known. Anything else is just asking for major trouble. I agree with you 100%. There are technical considerations which come into play defending eternity nodes from TA, other corrupt nodes, etc., but they are in the main solvable. The borders of the eternity logical network become exposed, but it is possible to push those borders far enough out that it becomes the responsibilty of other unwitting parties to shut them down. My design goal is truly distributed and truly secure. In order to take out eternity, I hope to make it necessary for the attackers to take out the Internet, something even overly communist regimes are unwilling to do. I think Adam Back's Eternity implementation mostly meets the "lightweight nodes which no one cares about" in theory, and if his assumption that usenet will not be attacked is valid, it has met the "unacceptably high collateral damage" criteria. I'm somewhat unsure of that assumption, though. Plus, the central difference between Eternity DDS and the other two Eternity designs is that market forces will be used to give people an incentive to break the law by running Eternity DDS servers secretly in Burma (both internal storage nodes and throwaway interface nodes). I think market forces are the only way to get people to implement a large enough Eternity logical network to provide protection from a concerted attack. > > Comments? More discussion would be great. I think everyone agrees on the basic requirements for Eternity implementation -- it's just a question of which compromises one must make to technical expediency, as well as advanced technical methods one can use to minimize those compromises. [Pseudo-ob-non-crypto: I apologize for sof.mit.edu's web server being dead for a while. It managed to wedge itself quite nicely, and I didn't find out about it until someone sent me mail. Again, I'm putting as much documentation as I can up on http://sof.mit.edu/eternity/] - -- Ryan Lackey rdl@mit.edu http://mit.edu/rdl/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBNLmM16wefxtEUY69AQGobAf/c8PleA2nc4a17HikOGbevX6l/hJzZCf1 ZwwSM2X9jT0Jbg3FhGBt4aj2mRSDDYA9C96StMl2tNZlIQf4PKtyIt2mysh4dO1L OsmAgemdqh9oHSEHalSDasGURSdzWBCuMctgcwT2BA+zWmWNILo4pw8ePgH2Hc2e tTmJpfrALMU2pOjkeQ3R6OPOVRPc4JRz/XpRLcFbwEy2DahVzc1ICjfdO7II/qhd 3UJtpxF+mKBrSLVfCINrkg6kXR2c9aL4bFBm5ZoINADH/sPSqghzgNRE9RLLpvqD 2bZmmzUUAgoTNhSEqHk0xl4VaRmVBf1JntetTmWBe1h2b7rh/Anr5w== =0O/n -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: John Young Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 11:27:30 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Crypto Jokes Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980112032616.006bd70c@pop.pipeline.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Inspired by "Crypto Kong," contributions of crypto jokes are requested, to enliven our Web site, which is pretty gray these days without congressional buffoonery. Thigh-slappers are preferred, but since one person's humor is another's pain, any bizarre tales of woe, stupidity and vanity are welcomed. Short as possible, like Adam's three swines of pearl. Sure, anonymous zingers are great. No pay, no apologies for missing the point. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Ryan Lackey Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 12:11:11 +0800 To: Adam Back Subject: Re: Eternity Services In-Reply-To: <199801112306.XAA00525@server.eternity.org> Message-ID: <199801120405.XAA12512@the-great-machine.mit.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Adam Back writes: > > Tim May writes: > > > Any file system which can be identified as to *location in some legal > > jurisdiction*, espeically in the U.S. but also probably in any > > OECD/Interpol-compliant non-U.S. locations, will be subject to COMPLETE > > SEIZURE under many circumstances: > > > > * if any "child porn" is found by zealous prosecutors to be on the system(s) > > I think child porn is pretty much the canonical example -- the spooks > / feds have a history of posting their own child porn if none is > available to seize. (eg The Amateur Action BBS case which Tim cites > classic case -- the Thomases had not had any dealings with child porn, > but a US postal inspector mailed some to them, and busted them for it > before they had even opened the package. They are still in jail > now.) > > I agree with Tim that actually building distributed file systems where > data can be traced back to the server serving it will cause problems > for the operators. I think even if there are many operators, and even > if the data is secret split, the operators would likely be held > liable. I agree as well. > > Ross's paper describes some techniques for building a distributed > database which makes it difficult for a server to discover what it is > serving. (Necessary because an attacker will become a server operator > if this helps him). > > The threat of seizure is the reason that I focussed on using USENET as > a distributed distribution mechanism. All sorts of yucky stuff gets > posted to USENET every day, and USENET seems to weather it just fine. > > The idea of using new protocols, and new services as Ross's paper > describes is difficult to acheive a) because the protocols are more > complex and need to be realised, and b) because you then face > deployment problems with an unpopular service and supporting protocols > who's only function is to facilitate publishing of unpopular > materials. Solved, I think a) someone drops out of MIT and works on Eternity DDS to the point where people want to dump money into it, assuming it is a fundamentally good idea, and b) by using market based protocols which give a financial incentive to people running stuff, there is a rush to set up eternity servers. In my system, no one knows (ideally) who is actually storing the data, only those on the edges of the system (who will hopefully only be known by a logical address). > > The solution I am using is to keep reposting articles via remailers. > Have agents which you pay to repost. This presents the illusion of > persistance, because the eternity server will fetch the most recent > version currently available in the news spool. This avoids > centralised servers which would become subject to attack, all that is > left is a local proxy version of an eternity server which reads news > from an ordinary news spool. That sounds like an interesting idea. It is certainly far simpler to implement than my suite of protocols. > > - purely cyberspatial locations, with no know nexus > > > > (I point to my own "BlackNet" experiment as one approach.) You may have solved the problems of persistence in Eternity, and if users are intelligent about picking addresses, you may have solved the persistent and logical URN problem. Cool! I'm not sure the problems of scaling to a full production system have been addressed, though. Would usenet simply ignore the additional, and potentially highly illegal, and non-readable traffic? alt.binaries.warez got punted pretty quickly. Also, your scheme does not include any provisions for people to post active objects of any kind, or market-based load balancing, both of which I consider critical features -- people will overload any Eternity server they can find -- what financial motivation would the overt owners of the server have to upgrade to handle the traffic? USENET is also not quite as resilient as it used to be. I may have an unreasonable bias against usenet, but I think any protocol which depends upon USENET rather than just using it as one of many potential transport mechanisms is unable to scale. Certainly the performance of your Eternity implementation will be far from real time. Coupled with not providing dynamic objects of any kind, I think there are a large number of services which could not function in your system. It's still has a lot of potential, and is actually highly feasible to implement, which is good. And you seem to be evolving it, which leads me to think any potential problems will eventually be solved. It would be interesting if we could share components which were common to both designs, such as a payment arbitrator or whatever. Having multiple interoperable Eternity implementations would actually be really interesting. They could store data in each other, in something of a recursive auction market (the data taken from a user commands a premium price immediately because it's "hot", once it gets buried a bunch of times it is a bit more shielded), share payment protocols, etc. Letting the market decide where it wants to put its data seems like the best plan. - -- Ryan Lackey rdl@mit.edu http://mit.edu/rdl/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBNLmWnqwefxtEUY69AQGdzAf+PAbPSbO202uPSBJImJ9JDryHvWRvMA5H QSdh+nsAq2dvXUkLm+ReJfYs4PDTimhBPYLxiAo/ooMeAsWwzCMNjFHeqS6V5VCV dM4mJ37SsNTauVtcvWTTBJELlq4kzOjV2Lyn/eDvWwdnhvIv24mWclUZy8EC+0b6 +KEFktcK25SIIO0VH/fezHixawl+AiM1LATxMm8chmc4FTiHUc6swTSulOap0zeT te21+zPuq0N5stzRPDfTePrjhneR3Zku9hq0sxK0Nbzaz790Jb4jh+q2XsFK0ow+ JiQZ59dj4bGHjq2H1u4TVcHQ/B16LZDxUz1nyvfw2uPBldmIQ0XSYw== =AfMI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Adam Back Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 07:17:27 +0800 To: tcmay@got.net Subject: Re: Eternity Services In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801112306.XAA00525@server.eternity.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Tim May writes: [ Ryan Lackey on proposed hardware setup for his Eternity DDS ] > Will these be located in the U.S.? Will their locations be > publicized? Will any offshore (non-U.S.) locations be publicized? > > Any file system which can be identified as to *location in some legal > jurisdiction*, espeically in the U.S. but also probably in any > OECD/Interpol-compliant non-U.S. locations, will be subject to COMPLETE > SEIZURE under many circumstances: > > * if any "child porn" is found by zealous prosecutors to be on the system(s) I think child porn is pretty much the canonical example -- the spooks / feds have a history of posting their own child porn if none is available to seize. (eg The Amateur Action BBS case which Tim cites classic case -- the Thomases had not had any dealings with child porn, but a US postal inspector mailed some to them, and busted them for it before they had even opened the package. They are still in jail now.) An article which got forwarded to cypherpunks a while back was a URL for some people who had created a for-pay web service which consisted soley of hypertext links to child porn articles in usenet. I never did investigate (the worry is always that it is a sting in itself, and I was interested in the techniques not the material), but it is interesting that these people considered this action safe enough for the monetary rewards to compensate. (Anyone save this post / URL, or know if these people are still in business, or what technique they used to be able to generally link to USENET articles... is it possible to link to news:alt.anonymous.messages/message-id in a way which is independent of news spool?) I agree with Tim that actually building distributed file systems where data can be traced back to the server serving it will cause problems for the operators. I think even if there are many operators, and even if the data is secret split, the operators would likely be held liable. Ross's paper describes some techniques for building a distributed database which makes it difficult for a server to discover what it is serving. (Necessary because an attacker will become a server operator if this helps him). The threat of seizure is the reason that I focussed on using USENET as a distributed distribution mechanism. All sorts of yucky stuff gets posted to USENET every day, and USENET seems to weather it just fine. The idea of using new protocols, and new services as Ross's paper describes is difficult to acheive a) because the protocols are more complex and need to be realised, and b) because you then face deployment problems with an unpopular service and supporting protocols who's only function is to facilitate publishing of unpopular materials. So I focussed on USENET, but the weakness of using USENET for building a distributed database where data is intended to persist for protracted periods of time is that USENET articles expire, existing in news spools often for only 3 days or so. The problem is really that USENET is essentially a distributed _distribution_ mechanism, and not a distributed database. Archiving USENET as a separable enterprise which charges for access (altavista for example charges via advertisements) seems less problematic than directly trying to build a database of controversial materials. Archiving it all partly reduces your liability I think, because you are not being selective, you just happen to have a business which archives USENET. However there are two problems with this: a) volume -- USENET daily volume is huge; b) the censors will ask you to remove articles they object to from the archive. The solution I am using is to keep reposting articles via remailers. Have agents which you pay to repost. This presents the illusion of persistance, because the eternity server will fetch the most recent version currently available in the news spool. This avoids centralised servers which would become subject to attack, all that is left is a local proxy version of an eternity server which reads news from an ordinary news spool. My current implementation is a CGI binary which is currently running as a remote eternity server. You can run it as a local eternity server if you have a local UNIX box, running say linux. Better would be a more general local proxy for other platforms. I am working on this local proxy version at present. This is the state of play for me. The reposter will be either the publisher of the article, or a reposting agent. In either case remailers can be used. Remailer resistance to attack has improved a lot since some of the remailers started using disposable hotmail etc accounts as exit nodes -- the remailer is no longer traceable without a much higher resources being spent by the attacker. Using a chain of mixmaster remailers, and a remailer using hotmail for delivery provides good anonymity. > I would have thought that a much more robust (against the attacks above) > system would involve: > > - nodes scattered amongst many countries, a la remailers Better to have no nodes at all, as with USENET only solution. The reposting agent (which may be the publisher, or interested reader if they are fulfilling the role of reposting agent) is a node of sorts, however this node can be replicated, can move frequently, and only ever need communicate via remailers. > - no known publicized nexus (less bait for lawyers, prosecutors, etc.) This one is crucial. > - changeable nodes, again, a la remailers > > - smaller and cheaper nodes, rather than expensive workstation-class nodes > > - CD-ROMS made of Eternity files and then sold or distributed widely This is an interesting suggestion, but surely would open the distributor up for liability, especially if copyright software were amongst the documents. Were you thinking of > - purely cyberspatial locations, with no know nexus > > (I point to my own "BlackNet" experiment as one approach.) This is the best option. Make it entirely distributed, so there is no nexus, period. cyberspacial -> meatspace mappings are often easier to trace than we would wish, especially where there is continued usage (for example there are various active attacks which can make progress even against mixmaster remailers). This is the weak point of my reposting agent, be that human, or automated. However anonymous interchangeable reposting agents is an interesting concept. One way to view the reposting function would be to view it as a new function for remailers; that they would post a message a specified number of times at specified intervals. However it is probably better to separate the function into a separate agent because remailers are known, and few in number. A reposting agent need never advertise an address. Instructions to the agent would be via USENET (it would read news for instructions and eternity documents bundled with ecash payment for it's services, and repost these according to those instructions). The reposting agents would be motivated by profit, have reasonable chances at obscuring their identity through the use of remailers, and so would be willing to take the risks. A smart operator could further reduce risks by using resources intermittently and unpredictably, and by using multiple, automated entry nodes into the remailer net. Potentially agents could be left operating in cracked accounts, siphoning payments off to their owners, at fairly low risk to the owner. Agents could be rated for reliability in delivering services paid for, or payment could be enabled for each repost by a arbitration agent upon seeing the post. > It is also likely in the extreme that a working Eternity service will > quickly be hit with attackers of various sorts who want to test the limits > of the service, or who want such services shut down. I agree with this prediction. Remailers have seen this pattern, with `baiting' of operators, and apparently people posting controversial materials and reporting the materials to the SPA or others themselves, etc. As you might guess part of the above are unimplemented. The local proxy is my current task. Reposting agents are unimplemented, as is integration of payment. Another comment is that reader anonymity is a separable aim which should be cleanly separated from the design. Services like anonymizer, crowds, pipenets, SSL encrypted news server access (supported by netscape 4), and local news feed can ensure anonymous access to eternity document space at varying cost trade-offs. Adam -- Now officially an EAR violation... Have *you* exported RSA today? --> http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/ print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 12:36:43 +0800 To: Adam Back Subject: Re: (eternity) mailing list and activity In-Reply-To: <199801112144.VAA00285@server.eternity.org> Message-ID: <199801120432.XAA12666@the-great-machine.mit.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Adam Back writes: > Firstly note that there are 3 (three) systems going by the name of > eternity service at present. I've heard that there are perhaps as many as two more which are vaguely non-public, as well. > And there is Ryan Lackey's Eternity DDS (where DDS stands for I > presume Distributed Data Store?). I am not sure of the details of his > design beyond that he is building a market for CPU and disk space, and > building on top of a an existing database to create a distributed data > base accessible as a virtual web space (amongst other `views'). He > gave this URL in his post earlier today: > > http://sof.mit.edu/eternity/ I'm only using an existing database for reasons of expediency in prototyping. The actual production system will include no commercial code. Oracle is a bloated pig for this kind of thing, too. One of the 'views' for the data will be a virtual database. > [description of how to commit data in Adam Back's Eternity Service implementation elided] My current design will require some kind of interface between users and eternityspace in order to commit data. Since the pricing/specification/etc. system will be rather sophisticated, I'm also working on a simulation tool to assist users in committing data. However, it will be possible in my ideal implementation for a user to fill out a form with duration of storage required, bandwidth/accessibility/uptime requirements, a pro-rated schedule for nonperformance, amount of space needed, amount of computation needed, etc. and attach their object. Then, there will be a market based system which lets people bid on storing that data -- various indices of prices will exist (although since it is multiaxis, they will have to be surfaces, with a large amount of interpolation). Someone will buy it, perhaps resell in a recursive auction market, etc. There will be a designated verifier which will make sure the contract is met, using a variety of mechanisms designed to preserve anonymity and prevent fraud, and enforce the contract. Payment will be held in escrow, disbursed at pre-specified intervals, again totally anonymously. Since these contracts are negotiable, there should be a market in selling/trading/etc. old Eternity contracts. As the realities of storing data change, the market will take this into account, and up or down value existing and new contracts. Potentially, one could even use Eternity storage as a kind of currency. The system would seem to be purpose-built for money laundering, once it is big enough that all money going into or out of the system is not monitorable (a threshold which depends on the design of the system and payment scheme as well). I think I'm going to take a break from my demo writing to work on some public documents. Some parts of my current system are total mock-ups, others don't yet exist. My "two-way anonymous e-cash implementation" is a chit file in /tmp on my machine (heh), and putting data into the system requires serious frobbing. And Oracle is handling most of the coherency/etc. issues right now. - -- Ryan Lackey rdl@mit.edu http://mit.edu/rdl/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBNLmcw6wefxtEUY69AQH+tgf8Ctsg6UJbGzDhzeXwNKYB6qI+afTnKWkw sYgyRf/tKEual6yaXymiCBswUzfW39jdqkQ313DPlGQzovCq6AcsXQyhk5H93h+e V5aI2belCUEUFxJ21WUj++ZtM5vSh0lcFAlz/w3ejuju7Il27uW8vDVfHjOBg65m oO6F7Wi4Wp2V4B4720KieHLhs9Rg9YGNVsDZPSgfY5KFpcDylpEARW6ipCceBQu+ fLrT+or4T3KVSKR7hSPMxULw/FKarMAz+xpyBXFt8UQMEU0azBVhPU3Ui5VPUZ+o mVMBiZKDFU4dvQCNygcGtebQ1JUFy3YKq48SuTYBr4FPyYNWMgGCSQ== =oRpR -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Ryan Lackey Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 13:34:43 +0800 To: Tim May Subject: Re: Eternity Services In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801120523.AAA12947@the-great-machine.mit.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Tim May wrote: > At 3:06 PM -0800 1/11/98, Adam Back wrote: > News spool services are already showing signs of getting into this "Usenet > censorship" business in a bigger way. Some news spool services honor > cancellations (and some don't). Some don't carry the "sensitive" > newsgroups. And so on. Nothing in their setup really exempts them from > child porn prosecutions--no more so than a bookstore or video store is > exempted, as the various busts of bookstores and whatnot show, including > the "Tin Drum" video rental case in Oklahoma City. There is no market-based reason for a general-purpose news server to store a file once it is known it is illegal or even offensive and someone puts any serious amount of pressure on them. You end up needing to steganographically protect your data in the usenet stream, yet then you have to resort to security through obscurity, which royally sucks if you have published source :) You could use some kind of cryptographically steganographically protected data, such that you need a secret key to know stegoed data exists, but then knowing which files to extract becomes a pain -- your server needs to try to extract on *everything*. True, this also solves part of the TA problem (while making the other parts far worse) :) But it really hammers the servers, and makes it unlikely they'll continue to let you access them. You could then foil this by using a bunch of tentacles to pull in data, but this increases complexity and security vulnerability. > > > >The solution I am using is to keep reposting articles via remailers. > >Have agents which you pay to repost. This presents the illusion of > > This of course doesn't scale at all well. It is semi-OK for a tiny, sparse > set of reposted items, but fails utterly for larger database sets. (If and > when Adam's reposted volumes begin to get significant, he will be viewed as > a spammer. :-) ) Yes. This (and the URN issue) was one of the initial reasons why I doubted the functionality of his Eternity implementation if it ever became popular. One of MIT's news admins was actually vehemently opposed to this "abuse of usenet", and implied he would go out of his way to not carry such articles. E-DDS should scale well because everyone involved is trying to make a profit. > > >> - CD-ROMS made of Eternity files and then sold or distributed widely > > > >This is an interesting suggestion, but surely would open the > >distributor up for liability, especially if copyright software were > >amongst the documents. Were you thinking of > > > > The CD-ROM distribution is just a side aspect, to get some set of data > widely dispersed. For example, if the data base is of "abortion" or > "euthanasia" information (a la Hemlock Society), which various parties want > suppressed, then handing out freebie CD-ROMs is one step. > > Many examples of this: Samizdats in Russia, crypto/PGP diskettes handed out > at conferences (was Ray Arachelian doing this several years ago?), and > various religious and social tracts. Obviously, this is what broadsheets > and fliers are designed to do. Self-publishing in general. > > If the intent is to collect money for the data base accesses, then of > course other considerations come into play. > > (Critical to these "Eternity" things is a good model of the customers, the > reasons for the data, etc.) My implementation allows flexibility -- someone pays for every scarce resource, yes, but it does not have to always be the same person. There will hopefully evolve to be people willing to speculate in data, storing it for free in exchange for a cut, others willing to pay the cost of putting their own data up and making access free up to a certain point, etc. I like CD-ROM distribution. My discman carried munitions, as well as music, recently, on the same disc. > > (* I say "working" in the sense that the concept was very easy to > demonstrate just by using PGP and remailers. Not much more than what I > demonstrated in 1993 would be needed to deploy a real system. Except for > one thing: true digital cash. Not the bullshit one-way-traceable stuff that > Chaum and others are now pushing, but the original, online-cleared or > escrow-cleared form, a la the work of Goldberg et. al. For some of these > applications, below, simple token- or coupon-based schemes might work > adequately.) There are currently-under-development systems which will meet the digital cash requirement, from people who I consider highly respectable and competent. Yes, blacknet is a perfect model of a distributed high-latency system. However, to get a system which will actually be useful to end users requires quite a bit more than just storing data -- services like reporting on the reliability of data, allowing easy access to data by third parties, etc. are all pretty essential. Cypherpunks may find blacknet highly useful, but most end users want something that works like the web, or like a database, which is the primary advantage of the current "Eternity" systems. > > How these models will work using existing infrastructure (Usenet, > remailers, Web proxies, etc.) depends on some factors. It might be useful > to consider some benchmark applications, such as: > > 1. Anonymous purchase of financially important data. (A good example being > the Arbitron ratings for radio markets...subscription to Arbitron is quite > expensive, and posting of results on Usenet is prosecuted by Arbitron. A > good example of a BlackNet market.) > > 2. Anonymous purchase of long articles, e.g., encycopedia results... > > (I'm not sure there's still a market for this....) > > 3. Anonymous purchase of "term papers." (A thriving market for ghostwritten > articles...already migrating to the Web, but lacking adequate anonymizing > methods.) > > This is an example of a very large data base (all term papers on file) > which cannot possibly by distributed feasibly by Usenet. > > And so on...lots of various examples. > > The whole Eternity thing is interesting, but we haven't made a lot of > progress, it seems to me. (I distributed a proposal a bit similar to what > Ross Anderson was proposing, a proposal more oriented toward making a > _persistent_ Web URL for academics and lawyers to reliably cite, with less > of the "404--File Not Found" sorts of messages, the things which make the > Web largely unusable for academic and scientific citations.) Yes, having a persistent URN is highly useful. Adam's implementation kind of solves this, and I have not yet come up with a solution to it -- it would be easy to do a pretty simple persistent URL, but having something which would allow indexing to be something other than a web-search-engine style kludge is more difficult. I've been reading some papers on the topic. > > > >> It is also likely in the extreme that a working Eternity service will > >> quickly be hit with attackers of various sorts who want to test the limits > >> of the service, or who want such services shut down. > > > >I agree with this prediction. Remailers have seen this pattern, with > >`baiting' of operators, and apparently people posting controversial > >materials and reporting the materials to the SPA or others themselves, > >etc. > > Yep, it's hard to disagree with this. Any centralized "Eternity service" > will be hit with various kinds of attacks in quick order. > > Building a data base, as Ryan comments seem to indicate he is mostly > interested in doing, is the least of the concerns. I think perhaps this is inaccurate. I am interested in being able to subsume the functionality of a database for some applications, but I'm trying to build something more like a distributed active agents system. A database implies a single central design -- this would be more a medium in which people could place databases, agents, etc. > > --Tim May > > The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography > ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- > Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, > ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero > W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, > Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. > "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." > > > -- Ryan Lackey rdl@mit.edu http://mit.edu/rdl/ From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Secret Squirrel Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 08:44:04 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: Spam Message-ID: <3092d7f2431e74ea40b5d0ad22244ca3@squirrel> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Matthew L Bennett wrote: >>I'm hoping you guys would know where I could find out >>more about this individual -- I'm hoping that he does >>in fact buy his service from someone else, and if so, >>I'm not sure how to find that out. If he doesn't, is >>there anything I can do? > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >Yeah, there is. > >Delete the friggin e-mail like a sensible person. > >I get a lot of spam every day, but I just delete it and go on with my >life. Since even many of the major sites these days seem to be run by a bunch of idiots who don't care that they destroy the network so long as they make a buck. 1) Trash mail from throwaway account providers like Juno (which I notice you're using), Hotmail, AOL, Prodigy, MSN, and anybody who offers something like a "fifty hours free spamming" policy. 2) Trash mail from chronic problem sites like AGIS, Earthlink, Worldnet, and their ilk. 3) If you get a flame for a civilized spam complaint (zippo.com did this to me) trash the mail from the site on the grounds that they're idiots. 4) If you get an incredibly stupid set of responses like I got from IBM today kill mail from them on the grounds that they have no idea what they're doing. 5) If it comes in with an obviously forged address then trash it. This has the possibly beneficial side effect of killing mail from "legitimate" users who purposefully use invalid addresses. 6) If it uses a relay site in one domain but comes from another trash it. A good example would be spam mail which is relayed off of someplace.com.au but has a "From" header which points to someplace.edu.tw, and has some other received lines which point to a dialup at MCI. 7) If it overuses punctuation in the subject line such as "!!!!!" then trash it. 8) If it comes in with a bunch of bogus IP addresses in the header then trash it. 9) If it's in HTML then trash it. 10) If it has lines over 80 characters nuke it. 11) If it comes in more than twice nuke it. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Ryan Lackey Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 13:55:17 +0800 To: Tim May Subject: Re: (eternity) Re: Eternity Services In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801120549.AAA13206@the-great-machine.mit.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > My comments below are not meant to cast doubt on Ryan Lackey's scheme, but > just to raise some questions. > > I am surprised, I have to admit, that Ryan is talking so much about raising > money, getting investors, etc., when no _working model_ of his scheme has > been deployed for people to play with, find weaknesses in, etc. No working model has been deployed by me as of yet. However, most of the components are "solved problems", with existing working models. Worst case, it would be possible to accomplish equivalent functionality by linking these by remailers and hoping no one shuts down the remailers. > > (In comparison to, say, remailers, which have existed for more than five > years now, with literally thousands of articles--some good, some > bad--written about them in all of their various facets. Even specialized > lists for remailer operators, Mixmaster-type remailers, etc. And yet there > have been no serious calls for investors to pour money in.) I believe no one has seriously called to pour money into remailers because there is no money to be made from them, and making them commercial exposes them to additional pressure and liability, not because they are technically poorly designed. > > Frankly, in reading Ryan's summary, including assertions like "In my > system, no one knows (ideally) who is actually storing the data, only those > on the edges of the system (who will hopefully only be known by a logical > address)," I find no real discussion of the *core idea*, the _reason_ his > data base is in fact secure. It's not a database. A technical design document describing it, security assumptions made, and implementation guidelines has been under development. I have been working on small demonstration components only in order to test ideas -- I have identified technical problems which are essential to an Eternity implementation, and I have been looking into literature for solutions. In some areas, no good solutions exist in research, so I've been trying to find technical solutions. > > (I apologize if a full discussion is contained in his earlier documents. > Even if his earlier documents had a fuller description, there has certainly > been an almost complete lack of discussion of his system here in > Cypherpunks. Given the additional complexitities an Eternity type data base > has over something as conceptually simple as a remailer, the lack of > discussion is not confidence-inspiring that Ryan somehow got it all > right.....) A full discussion is included in a document which has not yet been released. It's not finished, even in draft form. Classes and leaving the country to talk to people and work on a side project got in the way of finishing it. Once a draft is done, I'm planning to release it to a small set of people, get their comments, then finish the demo and send it to the cypherpunks community, with a pointer to the demo. I do not want to release a half-finished draft for fear that then progress will slow to a standstill on the unfinished parts. > > Anyway, I can think of all sort of threat models, and ways of (maybe) > attacking any system of linked machines I can think of, except ones using > message pools (which is why I'm biased in favor of Blacknet, I suppose). > > (The motivation for Blacknet was to a) demonstrate message pools, b) show > that anyone could be a node, c) build a system where the links between > nodes are all of the traffic in "speech space," and that so long as > encrypted messages could be posted in speech space (Usenet, boards, etc.), > then the system could not be shut down. Basically, to stop Blacknet one > would have to ban remailers in all jurisdictions, or ban speech coming from > certain jurisdictions. Otherwise, it's too distributed to stop.) I don't believe in the protection of being in "speech space" vs. being in network space as substantially different. Extralegal means will be used to shut down servers in either case, if it is sufficiently important to the attackers. > > (Note: But Blacknet has long latency, derived from its "speech" > underpinnings. There is the temptation to go to faster links, to move away > from speech space into traditional network links. But this reduces the > number of nodes and links, and makes an attack on the reduced-but-faster > network no longer equivalent to interfering with free speech. A > technological win but a political lose.) It does not necessarily reduce the number of nodes and links (it may for a given amount of traffic). > > Until we see a mathematical model--forget the details of implementation, > the epiphenomenal stuff about Oracle, AOLServer, Alphas, and K6s!--of how N > distributed nodes store incoming files in such a way that the goals of > Eternity can be satisfied... > Yes, a mathematical and technical model is critical. However, certain technical questions not directly related to security are easiest to solve by experiment. > (And we need to discuss in more detail just what the goals can > realistically, and economically, be.) > Yes, this is true. I've prepared a list of goals and assumptions -- I will post them at some point in the near future. Debate over them would be more fruitful than any technical debate at this point. > There are a bunch of issues which come up, motivated by Ryan's comments > that he already has the design of a file system in mind: > > - why won't all machines in the network in Country A simply be shut down, > regardless of whether the Authorities can prove which machine in particular > is storing the banned material? If every single machine in country A is shut down, then Eternity access to that country fails. This is why it is essential that all machines involved in the network retain anonymity, both from users and from untrusted other nodes. Several methods exist for this, including a cellular structure, anonymous writing by using remailers or other technical means, etc. >> > - given the problems remailer networks have to deal with, with traffic > analysis and correlation analysis (an area we have alluded to but not done > serious work on), why would not the same methods be applicable to tracking > movements through the system Ryan is apparently proposing? Components of the system will take their own security into account when pricing service. It won't necessarily be linear. Since they have their own security in mind, they will not willingly send a file which will lead to their demise unless the reward for doing so is higher than the penalties of being caught. > > (I believe a 20 MB child porn video MPEG sent into the Eternity network > would leave "footprints" an analyst or watcher could track. I am willing to > be show the error of my ways, but only with some calculations of diffusion > entropy, for example.) > > - In short, I want to see some simple descriptions of WHAT IS GOING ON. I agree. > > It has always been very easy for us to describe how networks of remailers > work--so simple that at the very first Cypherpunks meeting in '92 we played > the "crypto anarchy game" with envelope-based remailers, message pools, > digital cash, escrow, etc. (Running this simulation took several hours, but > taught us a lot.) > > I'd like to know how Eternity DDS _works_. Then we can start mounting > attacks on it: spoofing attacks, denial of service attacks, and attacks > assuming various levels of observability into the network linking the nodes. That's the primary reason for having both a design document and a demo. People can read about how it should work, and attack it at that level, as well as look at it in operation. > > Until then, I think it's a waste of time and money to be coding a detailed > implementation of a protocol. True. I'm not coding a detailed implementation of a protocol, I'm doing a bunch of minor experiments to see what technical means are feasible, as well as trying to create something which lets people see how it works. > > (And it may _still_ be a waste of money, even after the protocol is beat > upon thoroughly. There is no clear market for such a service, and not even > for remailers. And maybe not even for PGP, in terms of paying customers > sufficient to pay the bills. Not to criticize PGP, just noting the obvious, > the same obvious situation that seems to be the case with digital cash. > Great idea, but where are the customers?) That's why I'm trying to design the service with security *and* commercial usability in mind. I believe there are plenty of commercial uses for something with the right combination. If something like Eternity DDS exists which is indistinguishable to the user from a web server, and from those adding files from a system superior to a web server (such as a database), yet provides the level of security which I hope to provide, I think there will be a commercial market. So, I guess in order of priority: 1) list of goals and assumptions for a commercially-viable eternity service, with cypherpunks-level security, made available for discussion 2) technical design document to meet these goals circulated among some subset of the community for initial sanity checking 3) functional demo prepared which can demonstrate the feasibility of the system 4) release of 2) and 3) to cypherpunks, eternity, etc. for commentary 5) repeat 2, 3, 4 as necessary 6) production implementation I've been working on 1, 2, and 3 in parallel but with roughly correct distribution of effort. > > Thanks, > > > The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography > ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- > Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, > ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero > W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, > Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. > "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." > > > - -- Ryan Lackey rdl@mit.edu http://mit.edu/rdl/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBNLmuyqwefxtEUY69AQE/iwf6As+DXq0Q+XfaIfvfYX0VKJFhvvBigLWB 6ShAOEIzA2jOSGmzmdVWYfHw2Lan5wRcj0VyCMCJo+YYGfxf62z3clPut2Qm2ABv j7xzD6oGVwpf0ESzo7ZlsBL57dyhQiX8EjJQD5RQJBPS5/+wvjw0GsmKb3Tw6042 3/T4aVol2x339XtIG+rck7XV6H6kFZeKE8dbfopH9C/7b26d9fbI8JDxFaaqi+Q/ ccPXL+dB3QRHls8rR4BqPwPQ+Z//Ui4j4V2dhHgWyfIHxcnYReh0vPlN8os3rIHw 2dFra1YLXZ50NVEV6GGPnOzwBqn+zqPVQaXBnyrWAClCCRz0JMITBw== =TE1C -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Robert A. Costner" Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 14:03:56 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Privacy Software FTP site In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980112005829.0348b7a0@mail.atl.bellsouth.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain The Georgia Cracker remailer (@anon.efga.org) sent out a total of 20,997 anonymous messages last week FTP STATISTICS FOR PRIVACY FILES Electronic Frontiers Georgia's FTP site allows authors of selected software to have a no cost, high bandwidth distribution site for their files. We are not the authors of such software, nor have we tested the software. Please use at your own risk. These files can be found at ftp.efga.org/privacy/ Statistics are for the week ended Saturday, Midnight EST, before Mon Jan 12 00:37:49 EST 1998 10 files uploaded 261 files downloaded 27 Private Idaho 32 22 pi32exe.exe 13 QdPGP Plug in for Pegasus 11 Jack B. Nymble, large file 18 JBN file 1 of 5 25 JBN file 2 of 5 21 JBN file 3 of 5 25 JBN file 4 of 5 26 JBN file 5 of 5 3 JBN upgrade 9 Potato 2.20 1 Decrypt 7 Freedom Remailer 0 'C' MemLock utility for PGP About our FTP site EFGA maintains a high bandwidth, low volume FTP site. Our servers are located about 15 feet from a well managed network of high bandwidth fiber connections to multiple backbones. We are capable of peak speeds of 10MB, or about six times the speed of a T1. If you are the author of software that supports EFGA causes such as Free Speech, anti-censorship, privacy, or cryptography and would like for us to host your software, please contact us for more information. These statistics are located at http://anon.efga.org/privacy/ftpstats.phtml -- Robert Costner Phone: (770) 512-8746 Electronic Frontiers Georgia mailto:pooh@efga.org http://www.efga.org/ run PGP 5.0 for my public key From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 15:42:07 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: Congratulations! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8yL7ie2w165w@bwalk.dm.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Rabid Wombat writes: > p.s. - Thanks for the little white pills, Dr. Vulis. I'm feeling much > happier now. You are very welcome. On the subject of junk e-mail: I've made an effort to place myself and certain other addresses on the spammers' removal lists. This may be why I get a lot less junk e-mail that apparently most people who post to Usenet. These days, I get about 2 or 3 junk e-mails; they are usually sent from ibm.net or worldcom.att.net or erathlink or netcom; never aol or juno (although they may be forged to look this way). I typically forward them with the headers and without any comments to abuse@originating ISP, and am typically notified within a day that the account has been terminated. (Unlike the assholes from news.admin.net-abuse.* I have better things to do than to keep track of my kill count, but it must be close to a hundred since I started doing this last summer.) --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Robert A. Costner" Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 16:50:22 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Re: (eternity) mailing list and activity In-Reply-To: <34B9327A.2AAEEF87@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980112033654.03388468@mail.atl.bellsouth.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 05:52 AM 1/12/98 GMT, phelix@vallnet.com wrote: >What prevents the operator of such a server from being charged with >"conspiracy to provide child porn" or whatever? If he is holding a portion >of such contraband, isn't he as liable as if he was holding the whole >article(s)? In the US, the remaining provisions of the CDA would shield an ISP from prosecution concerning child porn. In fact most everything but intellectual property cases, which may be shielded by other means. If the eternity server acts merely as a pipeline, without the operators participating or encouraging illegal activities, then there is a good chance that the eternity server could be treated as a service provider in the same fashion and be immune from prosecution directly. -- Robert Costner Phone: (770) 512-8746 Electronic Frontiers Georgia mailto:pooh@efga.org http://www.efga.org/ run PGP 5.0 for my public key From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: phelix@vallnet.com Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 14:03:54 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Re: (eternity) mailing list and activity In-Reply-To: <34B9327A.2AAEEF87@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: <34b9a145.15127288@128.2.84.191> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On 11 Jan 1998 18:48:24 -0600, Adam Back wrote: >Wei Dai suggested that documents should be secret split in a redundant >fashion so that say 2 of 5 shares are required to reconstruct the >document. If the shares are distributed across different servers, >this ensures that one server does not directly hold the information. What prevents the operator of such a server from being charged with "conspiracy to provide child porn" or whatever? If he is holding a portion of such contraband, isn't he as liable as if he was holding the whole article(s)? -- Phelix From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Raph Levien Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 23:20:48 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: List of reliable remailers Message-ID: <199801121450.GAA17730@kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I operate a remailer pinging service which collects detailed information about remailer features and reliability. To use it, just finger remailer-list@kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu There is also a Web version of the same information, plus lots of interesting links to remailer-related resources, at: http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~raph/remailer-list.html This information is used by premail, a remailer chaining and PGP encrypting client for outgoing mail. For more information, see: http://www.c2.org/~raph/premail.html For the PGP public keys of the remailers, finger pgpkeys@kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu This is the current info: REMAILER LIST This is an automatically generated listing of remailers. The first part of the listing shows the remailers along with configuration options and special features for each of the remailers. The second part shows the 12-day history, and average latency and uptime for each remailer. You can also get this list by fingering remailer-list@kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu. $remailer{'cyber'} = ' alpha pgp'; $remailer{"mix"} = " cpunk mix pgp hash latent cut ek ksub reord ?"; $remailer{"replay"} = " cpunk mix pgp hash latent cut post ek"; $remailer{"jam"} = " cpunk mix pgp hash middle latent cut ek"; $remailer{"winsock"} = " cpunk pgp pgponly hash cut ksub reord ?"; $remailer{'nym'} = ' newnym pgp'; $remailer{"squirrel"} = " cpunk mix pgp pgponly hash latent cut ek"; $remailer{'weasel'} = ' newnym pgp'; $remailer{"reno"} = " cpunk mix pgp hash middle latent cut ek reord ?"; $remailer{"cracker"} = " cpunk mix remix pgp hash ksub esub latent cut ek reord post"; $remailer{'redneck'} = ' newnym pgp'; $remailer{"bureau42"} = " cpunk mix pgp ksub hash latent cut ek"; $remailer{"neva"} = " cpunk pgp pgponly hash cut ksub ?"; $remailer{"lcs"} = " mix"; $remailer{"medusa"} = " mix middle" $remailer{"McCain"} = " mix middle"; $remailer{"valdeez"} = " cpunk pgp pgponly hash ek"; $remailer{"arrid"} = " cpunk pgp pgponly hash ek"; $remailer{"hera"} = " cpunk pgp pgponly hash ek"; $remailer{"htuttle"} = " cpunk pgp hash latent cut post ek"; catalyst@netcom.com is _not_ a remailer. lmccarth@ducie.cs.umass.edu is _not_ a remailer. usura@replay.com is _not_ a remailer. remailer@crynwr.com is _not_ a remailer. There is no remailer at relay.com. Groups of remailers sharing a machine or operator: (cyber mix reno winsock) (weasel squirrel medusa) (cracker redneck) (nym lcs) (valdeez arrid hera) This remailer list is somewhat phooey. Go check out http://www.publius.net/rlist.html for a good one. Last update: Thu 23 Oct 97 15:48:06 PDT remailer email address history latency uptime ----------------------------------------------------------------------- hera goddesshera@juno.com ------------ 5:03:45 99.86% nym config@nym.alias.net +*#**#**### :34 95.82% redneck config@anon.efga.org #*##*+#**** 2:00 95.44% mix mixmaster@remail.obscura.com +++ ++++++* 19:18 95.27% squirrel mix@squirrel.owl.de -- ---+--- 2:34:19 95.16% cyber alias@alias.cyberpass.net *++***+ ++ 11:26 95.11% replay remailer@replay.com **** *** 10:06 94.93% arrid arrid@juno.com ----.------ 8:50:34 94.41% bureau42 remailer@bureau42.ml.org --------- 3:38:29 93.53% cracker remailer@anon.efga.org + +*+*+*+ 16:32 92.80% jam remailer@cypherpunks.ca + +*-++++ 24:14 92.79% winsock winsock@rigel.cyberpass.net -..-..---- 9:59:18 92.22% neva remailer@neva.org ------****+ 1:03:02 90.39% valdeez valdeez@juno.com 4:58:22 -36.97% reno middleman@cyberpass.net 1:01:28 -2.65% History key * # response in less than 5 minutes. * * response in less than 1 hour. * + response in less than 4 hours. * - response in less than 24 hours. * . response in more than 1 day. * _ response came back too late (more than 2 days). cpunk A major class of remailers. Supports Request-Remailing-To: field. eric A variant of the cpunk style. Uses Anon-Send-To: instead. penet The third class of remailers (at least for right now). Uses X-Anon-To: in the header. pgp Remailer supports encryption with PGP. A period after the keyword means that the short name, rather than the full email address, should be used as the encryption key ID. hash Supports ## pasting, so anything can be put into the headers of outgoing messages. ksub Remailer always kills subject header, even in non-pgp mode. nsub Remailer always preserves subject header, even in pgp mode. latent Supports Matt Ghio's Latent-Time: option. cut Supports Matt Ghio's Cutmarks: option. post Post to Usenet using Post-To: or Anon-Post-To: header. ek Encrypt responses in reply blocks using Encrypt-Key: header. special Accepts only pgp encrypted messages. mix Can accept messages in Mixmaster format. reord Attempts to foil traffic analysis by reordering messages. Note: I'm relying on the word of the remailer operator here, and haven't verified the reord info myself. mon Remailer has been known to monitor contents of private email. filter Remailer has been known to filter messages based on content. If not listed in conjunction with mon, then only messages destined for public forums are subject to filtering. Raph Levien From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Lucky Green Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 15:24:00 +0800 To: Ryan Lackey Subject: Re: Eternity Services In-Reply-To: <199801120523.AAA12947@the-great-machine.mit.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Mon, 12 Jan 1998, Ryan Lackey wrote: [quoting Tim] > > > (* I say "working" in the sense that the concept was very easy to > > demonstrate just by using PGP and remailers. Not much more than what I > > demonstrated in 1993 would be needed to deploy a real system. Except for > > one thing: true digital cash. Not the bullshit one-way-traceable stuff that > > Chaum and others are now pushing, but the original, online-cleared or > > escrow-cleared form, a la the work of Goldberg et. al. For some of these > > applications, below, simple token- or coupon-based schemes might work > > adequately.) > > There are currently-under-development systems which will meet the digital cash > requirement, > from people who I consider highly respectable and competent. And the demand for such ecash systems is real. I personally carried a $10 million offer for a non-exclusive license for the blind signature patent to David Chaum. He declined the offer. "The patent is not for license". DigiCash's CEO since March of last year, Mike Nash, also told me that DigiCash was not considering licensing the patent. I knew that day that it was time to quit. Not surprisingly, nobody heard from DigiCash since. -- Lucky Green PGP v5 encrypted email preferred. "Tonga? Where the hell is Tonga? They have Cypherpunks there?" From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Kay Ping Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 16:49:45 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Trust through anonymity; time vaults Message-ID: <19980112083354.29846.qmail@nym.alias.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Trust and anonymity may seem to be in contradiction but I intend to show how anonymity can be used to achieve trust. At the base of any cryptographic system is a trust model and it can only be as strong as the assumptions made by the trust model. Of special interest to us are distributed trust models. This posting was sent through a chain of remailers. I do not need to trust any of them completely, just assume that the chances that all of them are colluding or have been compromised by an attacker are low. Other types of services requiring a server infrastructure can be implemented using distributed trust models. For example, I can submit a document to be timestamped by several servers. Someone checking the validity of the combined timestamps can have higher assurance that the timestamp has not been generated by collusion between the document owner and the timestamping service or by a compromised timestamper key. Another type of service which can use a distributed trust model is a digital time vault which will be described later. One of the problems with distributed trust is reliability. A service can be interrupted by any of the servers going down. The overall reliability goes down exponentially with the number of servers. This can be solved for some types of services by using a secret-splitting algorithm requiring a minimum of N out of M parts. A user can select values of N and M that satisfy both his reliability requirements and his paranoia. But some are more paranoid than that. It may take a very large number of unrelated servers around the world to earn their trust and an even larger number to get acceptable reliability. To those I propose the following idea: Some of the servers will be anonymous. If they don't know each other, they can't collude. If they are anonymous it will be hard for an attacker to know which machine to break into. One of the problem with this approach is that an opponent with sufficient resources can set up a large number of anonymous servers and hope that a user chooses a set of servers of which at least N are under his control. If the user chooses a combination of anonymous and well-known servers he gets good protection against this scenario. Even if all the anonymous servers are run by it is unlikely that they will collude with servers run by, let's say, well-known remailer operators in other countries. Anonymous server operators may try to collude but selfishness will stand in their way: even if N-1 servers revealed their parts of the secret, the last one can always refuse to cooperate and use the information, so none of them has an incentive to reveal his part in the first place. Simultaneous secret trading protocols will not help- they cannot guarantee that a valid secret is contained in the message. The only way to get selfish operators to cooperate is using zero-knowledge proofs of their secrets. Zero-knowledge proofs work only for specific types of secrets. It may be possible to use secrets for which zero-knowledge proofs do not work. The specific service I had in mind for this distributed trust model is a digital time vault. It allows a sender to encrypt a message which can only be decrypted after a certain date. This is done by having a server generate secret/public key pairs for future dates, publish all public keys at once and publish the private key for each date at that date. Only after that date the message can be decrypted. For reliability and security the message (or the session key) can be split and encrypted it to the public keys of "next Friday" published by several different servers. This service can be used to send a public message that can only be read after a certain date, without any action required by the sender at that date. This may be useful if the sender suspects that he may be under arrest, dead or otherwise uncapable of getting online at the target date. Another possible use for this service is to destroy information to protect yourself against threats or court orders and still be able to recover it at a later date. Even if you don't actually do it, the existence of the service gives you plausible deniability. Many types of secret information are only secret for a limited time - until an announcement is made or a deal is signed. Encrypting a message to a future date as well as the intended recipient allows storing the message in an unsecured archive for later reference. This service can be implemented using existing software like PGP without secret splitting algorithms: a conventional encryption passphrase is encrypted to several different chains of public keys of the same date on different servers, using combinations that create the same N out of M result. Since the time servers do not receive any information or participate in the process in any way they will not generate any significant load except during initial key generation. They can also be kept anonymous very easily and cannot be held accountable for anyone's use of the service. The servers will still attract attacks. Anonymous servers will get some protection against this since their location is not known. Public servers can protect themselves by encrypting future private keys to future date keys on other servers and keep encrypted backups off-site. This should be done carefully to ensure that future keys will not be lost because of loops or servers going down. Anyone wants to run such a service? You can run either an anonymous or public server. You should run a public server only if you think your reputation is good and you public key is trusted by many people. If you want to run an anonymous server generate a new key without email or any other identification except a pseudonym for the server. You must commit to maintaining the service for a minimum period and publish all the private keys for which you published the initial public keys, but never before their time. The trial period for this service will be three months and the interval will be one week, posted at midnight on the beginning of the week, GMT. Date keys must be signed by the server key. Date private keys must have an empty passphrase so they can be used by anyone after they are published. Until then they should be secured for storage. Date Key IDs consists of a date in YYYYMMDD format followed by the server name. The name may be followed by an optional email address of the maintainer. For the trial period keys should be published to alt.privacy.anon-server and the list. Lists of public keys and past private keys should be available through http, ftp or finger. If you run an anonymous server you may ask someone, preferably a maintainer of a public server, to get your lists and make them available. The trial will let us experiment with this trust model and see if anyone thinks of interesting ways to use the service. - ----------------- Kay Ping nop 'til you drop finger kping@nym.alias.net for key DF 6D 91 18 A6 59 41 96 - 89 01 69 B7 9D0 4 AE 53 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: cp850 iQEPAwUBNLnGZRHPAso8Qp7tAQHnkwfQ9BpL82R1Mw1WY9EnOaFuXme+2y+OZZ60 Cb41fVtlSDC9EmAjAuV9K1dDP7FVGwFzGQ5j04IjgLocMbUgEyZDkKoFhe2Hgasw XU2ick5adCsvA8I0USfMVeQj2L6tkzc+hr4l9NXH7AGEQQGZu2iZTlDNn72FNBeo 7gPjxj8/a/T2+zKMyJbS2ujYa4ZBuypXpQg2UaQ42m1uKUz/ymJFXcm51X1Do3hJ TC2tvIST+v/cfYesblhAR1kRVAiKL+YUagLeWMU1I5X64E2MKVctOiPWBSHCLgQ0 LKtrwIHIvrIP2z0FMquR5GricvrLdFid89vtZFb1n8quQg== =uVxx -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: David Honig Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 02:23:31 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: [Humor] Kennedy's New Legislation In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980111002729.007cc410@otc.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980112090824.007c4660@206.40.207.40> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 09:17 AM 1/11/98 EST, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote: >David Honig writes: >> >> Bogus reasoning. You are sovereign and can do with yourself as you please. >> *That* is why substances should be legal and helmets should be optional. >> Pragmatics are irrelevant. I *do* >> wear seatbelts but it should be my choice, not >> something the state can use violence to enforce. > >The above is just one of the reasons why all drugs should be legalized. Yes, that was the moral one. >As for helmets, seatbelts, et al, consider them in context: most kids >stupid enough to ride a bike wihtout a helmet are already on welfare. >If they get themselves certified brain-damaged (I don't know how the >doctors tell the difference :-) they'll be stealing even more of my money >through taxes. Therefore in the context of taxpayers paying the medical >bills of these parasites, helmets can be required. There is a shortage of organ donors. Motorcycle helmet laws cut down the supply. There's your pragmatics, happy now? ------------------------------------------------------------ David Honig Orbit Technology honig@otc.net Intaanetto Jigyoubu "How do you know you are not being deceived?" ---A Compendium of Analytic TradeCraft Notes, Directorate of Intelligence, CIA http://www.jya.com/cia-notes.htm From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Brian B. Riley" Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 22:38:47 +0800 To: "David Miller" Subject: Re: Eternity Services Message-ID: <199801121429.JAA25262@mx02.together.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On 1/11/98 6:35 PM, David Miller (dm0@avana.net) passed this wisdom: >There is one thing that comes to mind that was just a topic covered >on this list and that is the use of cellular/wireless/RF/ham for >connections to said machines. > >Obviously, this would make seizure more difficult (and perhaps >increase the likelyhood of prior warning, if for example, cellular >service was suddenly cut off). > >I am currently studying some parallels between the established FCC >tolerance of ham radio self-regulation vis-a-vis anonymous >remailers. I haven't yetdrawn up my opinions, as they are still >being formed. I think that this might be one avenue to look down as >there is obviously a type of legal precident in what is >allowed/tolerated under obvious FCC jursidiction, whereas the >jurisdiction over IP is obviously still ambiguous. On the surface there would appear to be some parallels worth thinking upon with regard to ham/FCC. but the ham radio community for the most part qualifies under the category of 'sheeple'. Separate out the hotheads and idiots and you have a handful of forward thinkers who want to try to push the envelope held back by the vast majority of reactionaries. Even when the forward thinkers want to push the envelope within the rules, not even asking for relaxed or waived rules, they react with 'this is not the way we have always done it.' The FCC and the Washington establishment is well aware of this and that is why they more or less leave hams alone to regulate their own quiet little tea party. I cannot see the FCC looking kindly on the use by hams or establishment of a Citizen's Radio Data Service (as has been proposed several times through the years) to establish a secured delibrately obscured data network. As far as hams are concerned they are limited, right off the bat, by regulations prohibiting use of 'codes or encipherment whose purpose is to obscure the meaning of the message(data).' The ham self-regulation may be a precedent, but I don't think it would provide any leverage on this matter. Of course, there is always steganograpy ... one man's GIF is another mans data. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBNLokrj7r4fUXwraZAQFbWAf9GtQyI1PSRO8H4Iyb5Wp4xrWzMKbZuIHx rdQtM3wEjL0l64u5gCFb082GDZWYJcj0wcehaLMn9BOp8QrooiGv9XstHqlHNYjL /0dLTS4CT/qKkUl/68yqjB5i1KbDip1cO74dCcBVt/8G1S3IcjAGYP1V3nJtxwJ6 GlLjel9qQW4zzvnBOtQiD7HzU6V2FK5lIMa87zfuNvcREdlfyHG1L169sSq5CZEU XT7HGxrXsmfnolgFPMqVrcIYlccc+m6vx6MmPY8XIM7vU1ybDk9wDC75Eg2aSZVw 5fQn6CogpnootVHczSog3xg3RDZkgmm0xhArbBdBNjopxScEUvIjFg== =m+3f -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Brian B. Riley --> http://members.macconnect.com/~brianbr For PGP Keys "The illiterate of the 21st century will not be those who cannot read and write, but those who cannot learn, unlearn, and relearn." -Alvin Toffler From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Declan McCullagh Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 02:23:30 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Clinton in Texas last Friday (1/9/98, 6 pm CST) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain [...] And I want you to see your dreams and your life against a larger landscape of America's dream and America's life. We already have one foot in the 21st century, and it's a time that will be very, very different from the immediate past. How will it be different? Well, you know and you see and you feel it here in Texas. First of all, there will be the phenomenon of globalization - people and products and ideas and information will move rapidly across national borders - both the borders that touch us like Texas and Mexico, and the borders that are beyond the oceans that require us to fly or to communicate in cyberspace. Secondly, there is a phenomenal revolution in information and science and technology. Not only can children in Houston communicate with children in Australia on the Internet, or go into libraries in Europe to do research, but the very mysteries of the human gene are being unraveled now in ways that offer breathtaking possibilities, to preserve the quality and the length of human life, to fight back disease, and to bring people together at a higher level of humanity than we've ever known. That's all very encouraging. [...] From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Thomas Womack Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 18:59:40 +0800 To: cypherpunks Subject: Re: More on the DES II contest. Message-ID: <01bd1f47$5beb0570$409001a3@mc64.merton.ox.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >My greatest fear with DES II is that if d.n finds the key >early in the search, they may decide to sit on it until >just before the 540 hour deadline. If they are the only >group with a credible chance of finding the key (as far as >I know, this is the case), then their payback is maximized >by by this tactic, since the time limits for the June >contest are determined by the speed with which the key is >found in January. But the question is one of how fast the key-search can be made, not of when the key would be found - and I though the d.n website displayed a figure for keys-per-second. That it takes the network not very long to find the DES key 0x0809182395f8ee isn't a very interesting piece of data; the keys-per-second figure is more useful. Tom From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 04:37:31 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Talk of Banning Research into Human Cloning Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain This has some tangential list relevance in that it involves the Brave New World, so to speak, of the government deciding what research is legal and what is not. Clinton is asking Congress to ban research into human cloning. Importantly, this is not a proposal to cut federal funding of such efforts, as this would be unexceptionable (except to certain obscurantists). That is, the NSF or HHS or NIH or whatever is free to not fund all sorts of research projects. (Obviously many of us would cut nearly all such funding.) No, Clinton is asking for Congress to *ban* such research, regardless of where the funding came from. "Clone a cell, go to jail." "Clinton's proposal would make illegal any attempt to create a human being using the so-called somatic cell nuclear transfer technology that produced Dolly the sheep, in which an adult cell was fused with an egg. " Though I'm not a constitutional expert, this would seem to me to be a violation of various rights. A First Amendment right to speak and publish as one wishes for one, a Fourth Amendment right against search and seizure and to be secure in one's papers, and probably more general rights that have long-held that government agents cannot tell people what books they may read, what thinking they may do, and whom they may asssociate with (if the Civil Rights Act is viewed as the unconstitutional anomaly it is). Only a very few types of research are banned. And these are all ostensibly "national security" areas. Namely, chemical and biological warfare research, heavily regulated (private companies can do such research, but only with government approval, supervision, and generally _for_ the government). And nuclear weapons research (probably as part of the Atomic Energy Act). (If anyone can think of other "bans on research," besides weapons areas, let me know.) But a ban on cloning research would not be a matter of "national security," only of ethics and religious beliefs. Whatever the arguments for banning unapproved research into CBW and nuclear weapons, banning cloning research is an entirely different set of issues. Will Congress pass such a ban? Unknown. (They didn't pass the last such ban Clinton asked for.) Will the Supreme Court hear the case if such a ban is passed and then challenged? Unknown. Any implications for crypto? If Congress can successfully make certain types of science illegal, felonizing the search for truth, why not a ban on certain types of mathematics research? --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Rabid Wombat Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 16:12:28 +0800 To: nobody@nsm.htp.org Subject: Re: Congratulations! In-Reply-To: <19980113000743.988.qmail@nsm.htp.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On 13 Jan 1998 nobody@nsm.htp.org wrote: > >To: Anonymous > >cc: cypherpunks@toad.com, abuse@MCI.Com, >hostmaster@cyber-dyne.com > > Ha, ha, ha! who CC'd the "Congratulations" thread to those > addresses?? (would they know how to smurf d00d?) > > This list gets fucking better! > > http://www.security.mci.net/dostracker/index.html ;) From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 05:02:28 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Re: Talk of Banning Research into Human Cloning In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 12:32 PM -0800 1/12/98, Tim May wrote: >Only a very few types of research are banned. And these are all ostensibly >"national security" areas. Namely, chemical and biological warfare >research, heavily regulated (private companies can do such research, but >only with government approval, supervision, and generally _for_ the >government). And nuclear weapons research (probably as part of the Atomic >Energy Act). > >(If anyone can think of other "bans on research," besides weapons areas, >let me know.) Before others point this out, there are certain types of "public safety" laws about what one can research or do. Laws about explosives, dangerous chemicals, and pathogens. (The "ban on recombinant DNA research," following the Asilomar Conference in 1975, was a voluntary ban, and thus not a ban in the sense I am using here. And it last only a couple of years, until more could be learned about the potential danges of recombinant DNA work.) Please respond to my main points, if you respond at all, not to these side points. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 03:13:39 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Economic spies increase US activity [CNN] Message-ID: <199801121931.NAA22398@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > ECONOMIC SPIES INCREASE ACTIVITY IN U.S. > > Economics Graphic January 12, 1998 > Web posted at: 11:38 a.m. EST (1638 GMT) > > LOS ANGELES (Reuters) -- Governments of at least 23 countries > including Germany, Russia, China, France and Israel have stepped up > their economic espionage against U.S.-based companies, the Los > Angeles Times, quoting the FBI, reported Monday. > > The newspaper said a new survey conducted by the American Society > for Industrial Security estimated that intellectual property losses > from foreign and domestic espionage may have exceeded $300 billion > in 1997 alone. > > More than 1,100 documented incidents of economic espionage and 550 > suspected incidents that could not be fully documented were reported > last year by major companies in a survey conducted by the society, > The Los Angeles Times said. It said it had obtained results of the > survey which was scheduled to be released Wednesday. > > A 1996 Economic Espionage Act makes theft of proprietary economic > information in the United States a felony punishable by a $10 > million fine and 15-year prison sentence. [text deleted] ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 03:10:53 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: College freshmen political interest at a nadir [CNN] (fwd) Message-ID: <199801121932.NAA22439@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: >From owner-austin-cpunks@ssz.com Mon Jan 12 13:31:10 1998 From: Jim Choate Message-Id: <199801121930.NAA22376@einstein.ssz.com> Subject: College freshmen political interest at a nadir [CNN] To: cypherunks@ssz.com Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 13:30:47 -0600 (CST) Cc: austin-cpunks@ssz.com (Austin Cypherpunks) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2144 Sender: owner-austin-cpunks@ssz.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: austin-cpunks@ssz.com Forwarded message: > POLITICAL INTEREST AMONG COLLEGE FRESHMEN AT NEW LOW > > Graphic January 12, 1998 > Web posted at: 1:37 p.m. EST (1837 GMT) > > WASHINGTON (AP) -- It is not easy peddling politics on a college > campus nowadays. Even talking about the issues is a turnoff, > according to a nationwide survey of freshmen. > > An annual study by the University of California, Los Angeles, for > the Washington-based American Council on Education found a record > low number of college freshmen showing much interest in politics. > > Just 27 percent of the nation's 1.6 million freshmen believed that > keeping up with political affairs is a very important life goal, > less than half the percentage recorded in 1966. Just 14 percent said > they frequently discussed politics, down from 30 percent in 1968. [text deleted] ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Robert Hettinga Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 04:14:26 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Zions Bancorp to offer Digital Certificates Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain --- begin forwarded text Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 10:47:01 -0800 (PST) From: William Knowles To: DCSB cc: DC-Stuff Subject: Zions Bancorp to offer Digital Certificates Organization: Home for retired social engineers & unrepented cryptophreaks MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: bounce-dcsb@ai.mit.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: William Knowles [Techweb 1.12.98] Zions Bancorp, a $9 billion regional bank in Salt Lake City, this week will become the first financial institution to offer a service that lets organizations use digital certificates to secure internal and business-to-business communications. Digital certificates, which electronically confirm a user's identity, are generated and managed by certificate authorities. Companies can set up authorities themselves or use authorities created by third parties. Although certificate-authority services are available from technology vendors [such as GTE, IBM, and VeriSign, Zions said customers will feel more comfortable letting a bank manage their digital certificates. "Banks in the paper world already do this. They write letters of credit," said Michelle Jolicoeur, director of government implementations at Digital Signature Trust, the Zions unit that will offer the service. "Our business is trust." Digital Signature Trust has conducted pilots of its service with Utah's Department of Commerce, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, and internal departments for about a year. The service uses digital certificate software from several vendors, including Certco, Entrust, GTE, VeriSign, and Xcert. Separately, Certco and Entrust will unveil new features to their certificate-authority offerings at the RSA Data Security conference in San Francisco this week. Oppenheimer Funds, which plans to implement digital certificates by midyear to bolster IT security, is investigating whether to operate its own certificate authority or to outsource. "A bank is generally going to be a more stable company," said Jim Patterson, an Oppenheimer technology vice president in Englewood, Colo. "But on the other hand, do I want a bank that I currently don't have a relationship with to know so much about me?" Still, Patterson said digital certificates will be important in business-to-business commerce and communications. "With digital certificates, I can start getting or sending requests to perform business functions over any medium I want, including the public Internet," he said. Pricing for the Digital Signature Trust service will be subscription-based and will depend on the customer's applications and number of certificates. == The information standard is more draconian than the gold standard, because the government has lost control of the marketplace. -- Walter Wriston == http://www.dis.org/erehwon/ For help on using this list (especially unsubscribing), send a message to "dcsb-request@ai.mit.edu" with one line of text: "help". --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/ Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 03:41:04 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Attn: Jeremy Day - your nameserver isn't working... Message-ID: <199801122004.OAA22608@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text I received traffic from a 'Jeremy Day' in the process of attempting a reply I find his nameserver is not responding. Forwarded message: > From jeremy@servers.toh Mon Jan 12 13:52:35 1998 > Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 19:20:46 +0000 ( ) > From: Jeremy Day > To: ravage@ssz.com > Subject: Re: A further thought on free markets & anarchy... > Message-ID: > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII As to the specific issue that Jeremy raised in his note. I have no interest in carrying on a private discussion on this topic. If you would like to re-submit your post to the CDR I will respond to the points raised publicly. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 06:47:30 +0800 To: Tim May Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801122244.OAA23868@netcom12.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain the original claim, which I don't really care much and find pretty obvious, such that I am not really even all that interested in debating the point except for amusement, was that "science advances only through the open literature" its a tautology in a sense that I was referring to collaborative science, not private experiments. science in its most powerful form, that in service to humanity, is of course not this type, although I wouldn't be surprised if a antisocial anarchist for example confused the two either deliberately or through a characteristically muddled mind. >Doesn't matter how the establishment (whatever that might be) looked on him >or not... well, the original point was about "establishment science".. >My main point has been to refute your notion that any one who elects not to >publish in the open literature cannot be a scientist. I know of many >scientists who could not publish, or chose not to for various reasons. ah yes, scientists in their own mind, like that saying, "a legend in his own mind" >I mentioned the Manhattan Project scientists. (Choate made some bizarre >claim after this mention that all of the science was known in the 20 and >30s, and that no actual science was done by MP "engineers" and >"technicians." Might be a surprise to Ulam, Teller, von Neumann, and all >the others who worked in secrecy on the atom bomb, then the hydrogen bomb, >and so on.) it was science that was of borderline benefit to humanity, which was exactly my initial point. how much has the atom bomb served humanity? perhaps such abominations of technology require secrecy, no? >The point being that open publication is only a part of the methodology of >doing science, and a fairly recent one, too. no, it has been considered the key ingredient of modern science since its inception. concepts of publication and proper attribution for example have been around for centuries. >--Tim May and his Tentacles call me a sentimental fool but just love it when they waggle suggestively like that!! From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 04:29:28 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: autonomous agents (fwd) Message-ID: <199801122044.OAA22802@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 19:25:53 GMT > From: Adam Back > Subject: autonomous agents > A canonical way to do implement things like remailers, eternity > servers etc. is to build a distributed computation system to allow > autonomous agents to be distributed across the internet. Create a > market for CPU resources, bandwidth and disk-space so that the agent > can pay it's way. Charge per CPU/hour, Mbit comms at given data rates > and Mbyte/year storage, base it on Java as a portable network based > language with code distribution support. Then let people fire off > what ever they like, so long as they are paying. Has anyone done any work that you are aware of under the Plan 9 os? With it's fundamental seperation of i/o, process, and file servers along with it's inherent bidding/scheduling mechanism it seems to me that a lot of this work has already been done. In addition there are programs that allow Linux boxes to participate as Plan 9 compliant file servers. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 06:59:04 +0800 To: Blanc Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980110200421.007049d8@cnw.com> Message-ID: <199801122254.OAA29857@netcom12.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain bw does a good job of separating out a few memes for discussion; >Initially your argument had to do with secrecy and the need for scientists >to publish their work so that the scientific community may benefit from it. I was not talking so much about a need, but a duty as a scientist. I was talking about other *duties* of responsible scientists. it is interesting that physicians have a Hippocratic oath, but do scientists have an oath? there are informal ideas and taboos that circulate I think should be codified. I suggest some that involve secrecy and the use of moral principles in the pursuit of science. something most anarchists here will deny is the existence of something that could be called *immoral science*. is there such a thing? I find it trivial to see that there is. but perhaps someone that is opposed to morality, or is a moral relativist, or has a muddled mind, or whatever, will reject anything that uses the word "moral". in fact you might even start a flamewar among such people for using such a word like a red flag in front of a bull, a deliciously juicy and delectable flamewar at that!! >But you also said that "a key aspect of SCIENCE is publishing". I was >only pointing out that, in the context of those who are working for their >own purposes and not under the employment of a government agency, some >scientists are not overly concerned about contributing to this advancement, >as can be observed by their reluctance to publish (even if they eventually >do, "under the extreme pressure of friends", for instance). absolutely, and perhaps this secrecy is a useful atmosphere for abominations to flourish. has anyone asked why it is that people in our war factories (and they are vast, make no mistake) make weapons merely because they are *feasible*?? who is it that uses such a feeble, dark, deluded worldview to navigate the world? answer: many thousands of people being paid handsome salaries by your tax money extracted every week from your paycheck. many people who consider themselves the elite intellectuals of humanity. many people who have made an art of making themselves unaccountable to government oversight with the easy help of the indifferent, lazy, and apathetic masses. >It may be your conclusion that the advancement of science depends upon >scientists publishing their works, but the fact is that some great >scientists, and many others as well, are not as motivated to contribute as >you think is proper for a "true scientist". it is not my own conclusion. it is a simple truth that would be considered obvious by most scientific authorities. >I think you should distinguish between those scientistis who have joined >some kind of "scientific community" and have established an obligation to >share the results of their work with that group, and those scientists who >are what they are, and do what they do, from motivations unrelated to such >communities. fair enough. those scientists that are being paid with taxpayer money. and they are littered all over secret government agencies, sucking up money like black vacuums, while they create irrelevant, distracting diversions and decoys for the population to wail about such as welfare, social security, etc. perhaps there might be enough money to go around if so much of it wasn't being encased in the steel frames of the most technological weaponry-- killing technology far more efficient than the ovens of Auschvitz-- ever in existence. now being perfected with the help of your paycheck taxes..... gosh, why would anyone care about any of this? to all the newbies on this list-- I warn you-- the rumors are all true, I really AM INSANE!! BWAHAHAHHAHAHA From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 04:47:27 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Talk of Banning Research into Human Cloning (fwd) Message-ID: <199801122111.PAA22985@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 12:32:18 -0800 > From: Tim May > Subject: Talk of Banning Research into Human Cloning > (If anyone can think of other "bans on research," besides weapons areas, > let me know.) Class 1 drugs. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: ? the Platypus {aka David Formosa} Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 15:36:21 +0800 To: "Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM" Subject: Re: Freedom Forum report on the State of the First Amendment In-Reply-To: <4qm4ie46w165w@bwalk.dm.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On Sat, 10 Jan 1998, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote: > ? the Platypus {aka David Formosa} writes: > > Since when has a crypto anarchist been a market anarchist? > > You can't realy be one without the other. You can't be a little bit statist. > You can't be a little bit pregnant. A person can be more statist then another person. Statistness is a real not a binarie. [...] > > Ok a for instence, if I was your boss and I sated that I would fire you > > unless you would go *u-hum* cave exploring with me[1]. Such situations > > have occured in the past, would you support them. > > If the sole owner of a business has a female secretary brought into his > office, pulls down his pants, and orders her to kiss his dick; and fires her > for refusing; then he's engaging in behavior that's been viewed for centuries > as one of the occupational hazards for working women and nothing out of the > ordinary. And if a mine worker suffercates to death in a poorly venterlated mine then there engaging in behavior that's been viewed for centuries as one of the occupation hazards for workers in poorly venterlated mines. But of cause we have occupational health and safty laws to stop these types of abuse. [...] > Wouldn't it be easier to say that if you don't > like your present job for any reason (including your boss making amorous > advances, or too little pay, or the color of the paint on the walls of your > office), you should look for another one? Which is fine when the ecomomy is strong and there is pleanty of jobs going around but when the economy is on a downturn (like say because your magour export markets have gone into free falls) and there are few jobs, cound you risk it. [...] > > To me a person with that amount of power is uneceptable. > > You'd rather give his power to the employee or to the state? I'd rather have power spread around so no one has a signifigent amount of it. [...] > Would you have preferred the model popular in the medieval europe, where > the boss was forced to care for the worker (peasant) if he got too old/sick to > work, In a way we do this via our super anuation scheams. [...] > Apparently that involved the boss's right to fuck the peasant and > his family any time he pleased (ever heard of droit de segnor?) Its a type of dog isn't it? A big hairy one. [2] [...] > > Immagion there is a truck rolling out of conrol in your direction, > > keeping silent may harm you by preventing you from jumping out of the way, > > but this is not an agressive act, it is a passive one: I have declined to > > warn you. > > The inaction that you've described is highly unethical, but hardly illegal. Depeaning on the laws and cercomstances you may get procuted in simmler situtaions. Indeed the coronor is going to have allot of questions to ask you. [2] Lit Right of the first night. The boss had the right to fuck your wife on the first night of your marrige. The only refereces we have for this are the laws out-lawing the practice. - -- Please excuse my spelling as I suffer from agraphia see the url in my header. Never trust a country with more peaple then sheep. ex-net.scum and proud You Say To People "Throw Off Your Chains" And They Make New Chains For Themselves? --Terry Pratchett. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBNLmtaqQK0ynCmdStAQFD1QP9G3eOW5vyRVzkS9zQ1ImK92/P+aTHt1a9 MeqaNPOL/6Mt90X0bjfVWEm6PdgfGCxAvo+d79DW5l1GzHAOvwaAa7JBK2FsfTi/ 1AAaEXe4O2nxYymaL5xHz+BiUO6ew5T2HetxvcacJn5EF8OZViROa3LHXbPGy6Mz BLtpjldRWTE= =t8GV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Ross Anderson Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 01:08:29 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Service denial attacks on Eternity Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Tim May wrote: > It is also likely in the extreme that a working Eternity service will > quickly be hit with attackers of various sorts who want to test the limits > of the service, or who want such services shut down. Exactly. When I first talked about Eternity, which was at either the 1994 or 1995 protocols workshop, I was walking back to my seat when Bob Morris (then at the NSA) said, from behind his hand in a stage whisper, `Kiddyporn!' Adam Back added: > the spooks / feds have a history of posting their own child porn if > none is available to seize Indeed, and a decade or so ago there was a scandal when it turned out that the spooks were using the Kincora Boys' Home in Belfast as a pedo brothel in order to entrap various local politicians. For them to say now that they need key escrow to suppress Kiddyporn is a bit rich! However the main threat is the court order - Anton Pillar or whatever - and the best weapon against court orders is anonymity. If they don't know your address they can't serve you the order or arrest you for contempt. Tom Womack: > I can imagine *use* of the service becoming a felony I mentioned in the paper that Mossad might deny Eternity service to the Muslim world by posting something rude about the Prophet Mohammed. One must of course create a lawful excuse for people to have Eternity software mounted on their system. Maybe in addition to the `public' Eternity service we should have many corporate or even private services, many of which have escrow capabilities and are thus clearly law-abiding and accountable :-) There are many other possibilities. One topic that oozes into my consciousness from time to time is that one might integrate covert communications and storage with an anti-spam mail program - maybe a natural way forward if Adam hides Eternity traffic in spam! Tim again: > Great idea, but where are the customers? Some 90% of security research effort is on confidentiality, 9% on authenticity and 1% on availability. Corporate infosec expenditures are exactly the other way round, and tools to enable disaster recovery databases to be spread holographically over a company's PCs could save a fortune compared with the cost of some current arrangements. If a few of these backup resources have hidden directories that mount the public Eternity service, then who can tell? At the Info Hiding Workshop at Portland in April, I will present a new idea which may facilitate such implementations of Eternity. This is the Steganographic File System - designed to provide you with any file whose name and password you know. If you don't know this combination, then you can't even tell that the file is there. We do not need to make any assumptions about tamper resistance; it can be done using suitable mathematics. (This is joint work with Roger Needham and Adi Shamir.) Ross PS: we need a better word for `eternityspace', and Bell Labs have already trademarked `Inferno'. So what - Nirvana? Valhalla? From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 06:45:10 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: Freedom Forum report on the State of the First Amendment (fwd) Message-ID: <199801122311.RAA23502@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 16:40:11 -0400 > From: The Sheriff > Subject: Re: Freedom Forum report on the State of the First Amendment > Sam Adams (as it may or may not have been mentioned on this list) > himself had a problem with our constitution -- he didn't think that > it was right for the people to ratify the bill of rights, thereby > protecting certain rights under the constitution. Why? Simple. > > He was of the mind that setting our rights, such as the right to > free speech, in concrete meant that anything NOT set in concrete > wasn't a right -- he felt that by ratifying the bill of rights, > rather than using logic as I did above, we were actually LIMITING > our rights as freely roaming human beings. Which is the reason they put the 9th and 10th in there. > America should be about not taking any shit from anybody -- not > because you can sue, but because you have enough attitude to realize > when the other guy's being an idiot, and because you have enough > balls to tell him so. Actualy it should be because people realize you don't owe that other person an explanation for your actions and you further don't need their permission. Of course this assumes you *aren't* using anything that belongs to them. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 07:18:05 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Future War on TDC this Sunday Message-ID: <199801122344.RAA23793@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Hi, Just saw an add for Future War on The Discovery Channel this Sunday evening. It is supposed to discuss the impact of global television as the primary weapon in the warfare of tomorrow. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 07:38:39 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Global market going to the bears? [CNN] Message-ID: <199801130004.SAA23988@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Managers worldwide say they are losing confidence in equities, buying > bonds > > January 12, 1998: 1:48 p.m. ET > > Mutual Funds Guide > More related sites... LONDON (Reuters) - Fund managers worldwide are > increasingly pessimistic about economic and corporate earnings growth, > according to investment bank Merrill Lynch's monthly Gallup Global > Survey released on Monday. > [INLINE] "Managers are downgrading their forecasts for earnings per > share and at the same time this bearishness for equities makes them > want to buy bonds," Merrill Lynch global strategist Bijal Shah told > Reuters Financial Television. "They are saying this weakness in > activity means that inflation is not going to pick up and bond prices > should rise." [text deleted] ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 07:39:16 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Sun to fight MS w/ new workstations [CNN] Message-ID: <199801130006.SAA24034@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > New Unix workstations, lower pricing seen as bulwark against Microsoft > NT > > January 12, 1998: 1:11 p.m. ET > > Java goes to set-top boxes - Jan. 9, 1998 > > Sun cross-pollinates Intel - Dec. 16, 1998 > > More related sites... PALO ALTO, Calif.(Reuters) - Sun Microsystems > Inc. will launch a new line of workstations Tuesday, aiming to > challenge its rivals and blunt the spread into markets for > high-powered desktop computers used by engineers of PCs using > Microsoft Corp.'s Windows NT. > [INLINE] The new workstations are the result of a two-year effort by > Sun to design products that greatly reduce the cost of the computers > used by power-hungry engineers, while still providing the blistering > performance they demand. > [INLINE] "This is really big. We think we can create an alternative to > [PCs running] NT," Ed Zander, president of Sun Microsystems Computer > Co., the company's largest division, said in an interview with Reuters > ahead of the announcement. [text deleted] ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Blanc Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:14:38 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980112191309.0069b3d8@cnw.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Mad Vlad wants to know: >something most anarchists here will deny is the existence of something >that could be called *immoral science*. is there such a thing? ............................................................ No. There are, however, immoral scientists. One way to skew the interpretations of what you write, besides bringing up the subject of morality, is to describe things in ways which do not correspond to their actual manner of existence: "science" does not exist without those individuals who have set themselves to pursue it. They should bear the blame if they practice it immorally. You again have brought up several issues which can be examined separately and do not necessarily coexist: . being a scientist . pretending to be scientific . choosing to pursue science . being smart enough to pursue scientific research . being successful in the scientific pursuit of truths . giving a damn about the consequences of the effects of research as it affects humanity or other living things (as when it is imposed upon them) . responsibility in science . responsibility in science as practiced by mendicants of the State . the regulation of responsibility per se . the regulation of the methods of science . the support of irresponsible scientific methods, by slaves of the State . anarchist cypherpunkery I become exceedingly uncomfortable at the realization that I have to buy an astronomy magazine from the store, paying yet again for info, in order to find out some of what they're doing at NASA. To think that a responsible citizen like myself must go out searching for the info themselves, using whatever resources they can find or pay for, in order to become informed! There are all sorts of things that government employees do not "share" with those who pay the bills. There is a book in Objectivist literature which presents the idea of "context dropping", which is, that in order for some people to function as if things were normal and that what they're doing is consistent with moral principles, they must drop a part of their information out of sight, out of thought, so that their actions appear logically related and make sense - they eliminate elements from the given context, crucial essentials which make the difference in its character. People like these might practice secrecy in keeping information from others, but equally significant, they also hide things from themselves. So that's one thing which would explain some scientist's lack of moral principles in the pursuit of science. Then it must be explained why so many people aren't complaining about it. Are they insensitive to their mistreatment, sitting ducks for opportunists? Or maybe these taxpayers are equally immoral, thinking only about promised benefits, forgetting about the disadvantage of losing control over the quality of their life? It's possible for some people to override the boundaries of decency, even if they're otherwise smart enough to pursue science. But what would you expect cryptographers to do about it? .. Blanc From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Adam Back Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 04:21:48 +0800 To: eternity@internexus.net Subject: autonomous agents Message-ID: <199801121925.TAA00539@server.eternity.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain A canonical way to do implement things like remailers, eternity servers etc. is to build a distributed computation system to allow autonomous agents to be distributed across the internet. Create a market for CPU resources, bandwidth and disk-space so that the agent can pay it's way. Charge per CPU/hour, Mbit comms at given data rates and Mbyte/year storage, base it on Java as a portable network based language with code distribution support. Then let people fire off what ever they like, so long as they are paying. In this environment an eternity variant, or remailers, or anything else becomes a collection of autonomous agents which must fund their own distribution. The autonomous agents could send back profits to their creators, or use the profits to self propagate. Someone who thought up a good application, and got the economics right for their bot's buy and sell algorithms might become rich, even. I had considered that a generic perl execution system charging for resources would be useful for remailers a few years back. Java seems pretty good for this purpose also, being another portable network aware language. >From what Ryan has said his design uses markets for resources also. The question is though would you let a bot of this sort loose on your system? For agents to be able to achieve anything useful, the Java sandbox model has to be relaxed to allow the agent to make network connections to other than the machine the code was served from. Java has support for this in that signed applications are allowed to make external network connections. The problem is the flexibility would allow an autonomous agent to pay it's way in say breaking into a series of machines, and sending back obtained documents via remailer to the operator. A well funded attacker could cause lots of problems for operators. However the system as a whole is nice for our `creating lawful excuses' drive, because there are many applications which could make good use of the distributed computation system: filmatic quality image rendering computations, scientific computations, code breaking efforts, distributed web server applications. The liability questions are interesting also. If the participant in the CPU resource market is not expected to be able to vet all source code he runs, this gives the would be eternity operator a chance to distribute his risk. If the system becomes widely used, this helps protect it from attack. Adam From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 09:05:55 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: USPS loosing business to email [CNN] Message-ID: <199801130133.TAA24345@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > U.S. POSTAL SERVICE LOSING BUSINESS TO COMPUTERS > > e-mail vs. snail mail January 12, 1998 > Web posted at: 3:25 p.m. EST (2025 GMT) > > NEW YORK (CNN) -- The U.S. Postal Service is facing stiff > competition from computers, according to an article in the January > 19 issue of Time Magazine. > > Electronic mail could replace 25 percent of conventional mail, or > "snail mail," by the year 2000, the article said. > > The Postal Service lags behind Federal Express and United Parcel > Service in shipping packages. The latter already moves 80 percent of > the country's packages, according to the article. [text deleted] ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:37:47 +0800 To: Adam Back Subject: Re: steganography and delayed release of keys (Re: EternityServices) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 6:46 PM -0800 1/12/98, Adam Back wrote: >One tactic which could protect a USENET newsgroup operator from child >porn prosecutions is if he had no practical way to recognize such >materials until after it was distributed to down stream sites. Who are these "USENET newsgroup operators," anyway? (A few newsgroups are moderated, by individuals or committees, but the vast majority are not.) Newsgroups get removed from university and corporate newsfeeds, or by nations, and Adam's ruse would not stop them from continuing to do so. >> >The solution I am using is to keep reposting articles via remailers. >> >Have agents which you pay to repost. This presents the illusion of >> >> This of course doesn't scale at all well. It is semi-OK for a tiny, sparse >> set of reposted items, but fails utterly for larger database sets. (If and >> when Adam's reposted volumes begin to get significant, he will be viewed as >> a spammer. :-) ) > >The best criticism of my eternity design to date! I agree. I assume you are serious, and do agree, as it is a very solid criticism of the "Eternity as continuous posting to Usenet" model. I see several axes to the analysis of the various Eternity schemes. -- retrieval time for a customer or client to obtain some set of data, ranging from (I assume) ~minutes or less in an Eternity DDS file system to ~days or less in a Blacknet system to (I am guessing) ~weeks or months in an Adam Back sort of system. (Given constraints on Usenet in existence today. Technological and political constraints in how many gigabytes will be sent. The binaries groups are already overloading many systems, of course.) -- bandwidth consumed in the system -- number of nodes -- security (I have my own biases, and will elaborate when I get some time to put my thoughts together.) --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:41:34 +0800 To: Eric Cordian Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 6:55 PM -0800 1/12/98, Eric Cordian wrote: >The manslaughter case against Ruby Ridge shooter Lon Horiuchi was >effectively neutered today when a federal judge acquiesed to demands >by Justice Department lawyers and moved the case out of Idaho's >jurisdiction and into federal court. This means that Horiuchi will be >tried in federal court in front of a federal jury on state >manslaughter charges, and not in front of a jury from Idaho's Boundary >County, where the shooting took place. > >This ruling, by U.S. District Judge Edward Lodge, came just six days >after Boundary County Magistrate Quentin Harden ordered Horiuchi to >stand trial. State manslaughter charges had been filed against >Horiuchi for the death of Vicki Weaver in August. > >The Justice Department, which has denied that Horiuchi did anything >wrong, provided the lawyers who argued that any case in which federal >agents are acting in their official capacity may be transferred and >tried in federal court, in front of a federal jury. > >The trial is scheduled to begin March 10. Horiochi has continued to >work for the FBI since the charges were filed. The militia groups have known this was a foregone conclusion from the gitgo. This is why they are advocating frontier justice for Horiuchi. (However, exhaustive searches for this murderer have not turned up evidence of him. If he's "continuing to work for the FBI," it's from a safe house, or with a new name. Probably a safe house, as no one has reported seeing him near Federal buildings, either.) The guy's probably dead meat anyway. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:53:48 +0800 To: Adam Back Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 7:14 PM -0800 1/12/98, Adam Back wrote: >Some meta-level thoughts on the eternity service document availability >problem: > >Many of the problems with designing an eternity service are introduced >by trying to build real time accessibility of data (with similar >response times for documents to those offered by web servers). > >The BlackNet model can quite ably provide eternity like services with >perhaps 24 hour turn around on documents. Everything is operated by >digital dead drop (via say news:alt.anonymous.messages), or mixmaster >remailers. Ah, I just saw this message after already sending my last message, where I described several axes. I even cited the same estimate, of "~days," for the latency of Blacknet sorts of Eternity implementations. Adam and I are apparently thinking similar sorts of thoughts. A pity we waste so much time at Cypherpunks physical meetings getting "updates" on commercial (and boring, from an issues viewpoint) crypto products when some exciting seminars and brainstormings on these sorts of issues would be so much more fun. (Note: I shouldn't be criticizing Cypherpunks physical meetings too much. I suppose they serve a purpose, and the Bay Area community has moved away from "exotic" applications and ideas to more commercial issues. And why I basically don't go to meetings much anymore.) Back to Back: >This suggests that another approach would be to have two classes of >services. Users of high risk documents can put up with 24 hour turn >around, and lower risk documents can be served by an alternate >service, intermediate risk documents can exist by using low risk >resources until detection. Here's a meta-question: Suppose one holds highly secret or sensitive data, for which one wants to use an Eternity service to ensure the information is not suppressed by some government or other actor. Why centralize the data at all? Why not just use the "pointer" to the data and offer to provide it? Which is what Blacknet was all about. Instead of focussing on a data base, focus instead on an untraceable market mechanism. (I admit that a system which can provide *A LOT* of data *VERY FAST*, and also untraceably or unstoppably, is an attractive goal. It would blow both Adam's "repost to Usenet" and my "Blacknet" approaches to hell and gone. The catch is that I can't see how such a system will get built, who will run the nodes, how payment will be made to pay for the nodes and work, and how traffic analysis will be defeated.) And I think implementing the slower-but-no-breakthroughs approach (Blacknet or variations) has some advantages. It may be many years before we need to be in the corner of the graph that is "large amounts of data--very fast retrieval--very secure." Most candidates for untraceable/secure storage and retrieval are NOT in this corner, yet. (Kiddie porn may be, but whistleblowing and scientific information are not.) --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Antonomasia Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 04:47:37 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com Subject: Re: Trust through anonymity; time vaults Message-ID: <199801122019.UAA04395@notatla.demon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain The time vault suggestion resembles one from Tim May in 1993. Rivest Shamir and Wagner also addressed time vaults by requiring a computation (resistant to parallel calculation and of reasonably well-defined length) to decrypt the message. under http://theory.lcs.mit.edu/~rivest/ -- ############################################################## # Antonomasia ant@notatla.demon.co.uk # # See http://www.notatla.demon.co.uk/ # ############################################################## From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 12:36:59 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Announcement: Clonerpunks mailing list In-Reply-To: <199801130405.XAA26577@mx02.together.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 8:05 PM -0800 1/12/98, Brian B. Riley wrote: >On 1/12/98 3:32 PM, Tim May (tcmay@got.net) passed this wisdom: > >>Any implications for crypto? If Congress can successfully make >>certain types of science illegal, felonizing the search for truth, >>why not a ban on certain types of mathematics research? > > I think many of us are understandably nervous about the mistakes that >could be made in the process of perfecting human cloning. But Tim's >point is well taken, yet another potential 'slippery slope.' > To subscribe to the Clonerpunks list, send a message to majordomo@dolly.com, with the message body, "subscribe clonerpunks". The Clonerpunks list is a high-volume list devoted to the issues and technology surrounding human and animal cloning. Clones are welcome. Warning: Participation by U.S. subjects, or visitors to the U.S., or those who have ever watched American television, is not allowed on the Clonerpunks list, under the terms of the Children's Safety and Human Decency Act of 1998. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Eric Cordian Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 10:54:07 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Feds to Idaho: Kiss Our Butts Message-ID: <199801130255.UAA21084@wire.insync.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain The manslaughter case against Ruby Ridge shooter Lon Horiuchi was effectively neutered today when a federal judge acquiesed to demands by Justice Department lawyers and moved the case out of Idaho's jurisdiction and into federal court. This means that Horiuchi will be tried in federal court in front of a federal jury on state manslaughter charges, and not in front of a jury from Idaho's Boundary County, where the shooting took place. This ruling, by U.S. District Judge Edward Lodge, came just six days after Boundary County Magistrate Quentin Harden ordered Horiuchi to stand trial. State manslaughter charges had been filed against Horiuchi for the death of Vicki Weaver in August. The Justice Department, which has denied that Horiuchi did anything wrong, provided the lawyers who argued that any case in which federal agents are acting in their official capacity may be transferred and tried in federal court, in front of a federal jury. The trial is scheduled to begin March 10. Horiochi has continued to work for the FBI since the charges were filed. -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law" From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Bill Frantz Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 15:56:07 +0800 To: Adam Back Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 11:25 AM -0800 1/12/98, Adam Back wrote: >For agents to be able to achieve anything useful, the Java sandbox >model has to be relaxed to allow the agent to make network connections >to other than the machine the code was served from. Java has support >for this in that signed applications are allowed to make external >network connections. The Java security model proposed for version 1.2 (now in some form of beta) supports this kind of distinction. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Frantz | One party wants to control | Periwinkle -- Consulting (408)356-8506 | what you do in the bedroom,| 16345 Englewood Ave. frantz@netcom.com | the other in the boardroom.| Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:12:14 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Trial jurisdiction options Message-ID: <199801130337.VAA24688@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text ARTICLE III. Section 2. The judicial Power shall extend to all Cases, in Law and Equity, arising under this Constitution, the Laws of the United States, and Treaties made, or which shall be made, under their Authority; -- to all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls; -- to all Cases of admiralty and maritime Jurisdiction; -- to Controversies between two or more States; -- between a State and Citizens of another State; -- between Citizens of different States; -- between Citizens of the same State claiming Lands under Grants of different States; -- and between a State, or the Citizens thereof, and foreign States, Citizens or Subjects. In all Cases, affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, and those in which a State shall be Party, the supreme Court shall have original Jurisdiction. In all other Cases before mentioned, the supreme Court shall have appellate Jurisdiction, both as to Law and Fact, with such Exceptions, and under such Regulations as the Congress shall make. The Trial of all Crimes, except in Cases of Impeachment, shall be by Jury; and such Trial shall be held in the State where the said Crimes shall have been committed; but when not committed within any State, the Trial shall be at such Place or Places as the Congress may by Law have directed. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:43:44 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd) Message-ID: <199801130410.WAA25119@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 19:14:05 -0800 > From: Blanc > Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality > >something most anarchists here will deny is the existence of something > >that could be called *immoral science*. is there such a thing? > ............................................................ > > No. There are, however, immoral scientists. According to who? The scientist who is supposedly immoral? Obviously their actions aren't against their beliefs. The observer who is claiming it is immoral because they *believe* it to be immoral? Morality is a function of human psychology and not a fundamental result of existance. The relationship is similar to that between A, T, C, G, U and the genome. > actual manner of existence: "science" does not exist without those > individuals who have set themselves to pursue it. They should bear the > blame if they practice it immorally. Who is so moral that they may decide what is immoral? If you're a Christian the answer is simple 'judge not lest ye be judged'. Jesus stopped the stonning of an adulteress by saying that he who was without sin could throw the first stone. Since he was the only one without sin (by defintion in Christianity) he should have been the one to throw the first stone. What did he do? He sent everyone home with the admonishment to sin no more. > . being smart enough to pursue scientific research It doesn't necessarily take smarts. > . being successful in the scientific pursuit of truths What truths? Science isn't involved in 'truth' let alone 'Truth'. > . giving a damn about the consequences of the effects of research as it > affects humanity or other living things (as when it is imposed upon them) So you propose that ignorance of the consequences will some how protect us? > . responsibility in science Responsibility to who? The person(s) paying the bill, your fellow scientist, the society you live in, the world you inhabit, the generations to follow? > . responsibility in science as practiced by mendicants of the State Don't confuse working for the state as something that somehow mediates the basic tenents of science. If to get the job you may have to give up some scientific practices then at that point you aren't practicing science anymore. > . the regulation of the methods of science That's easy, the theories work when applied in experiments. > I become exceedingly uncomfortable at the realization that I have to buy an > astronomy magazine from the store, paying yet again for info, in order to > find out some of what they're doing at NASA. Try: www.nasa.gov jpl.nasa.gov or simply send email to Ron Baalke at JPL (you could call him on the phone if you don't mind paying the bill) > To think that a responsible > citizen like myself must go out searching for the info themselves, using > whatever resources they can find or pay for, in order to become informed! Why do they have a responsibility to drop it on your doorstep? > There is a book in Objectivist literature which presents the idea of What book? > "context dropping", which is, that in order for some people to function as > if things were normal and that what they're doing is consistent with moral > principles, they must drop a part of their information out of sight, out of > thought, so that their actions appear logically related and make sense - > they eliminate elements from the given context, crucial essentials which > make the difference in its character. People like these might practice > secrecy in keeping information from others, but equally significant, they > also hide things from themselves. Everyone is like that. It is one of the reasons science requires public dialog on its results. You can fool some of the people most of the time, most of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all the people all the time. Sooner or later somebody will notice the king (theory) is butt naked (doesn't work when applied in experiment). > It's possible for some people to override the boundaries of decency, even > if they're otherwise smart enough to pursue science. But what would you > expect cryptographers to do about it? Cryptographers are scientist also. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:52:18 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: HP BBS's? Telnet? (fwd) Message-ID: <199801130417.WAA25237@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > From: "Wardemon" > Subject: HP BBS's? Telnet? > Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 22:37:34 -0500 > Does anyone have any elite HP BBS's that I could telnet to ???? > Thanks I usualy use ftp.hp.com What version of HP/UX are you running? ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Anonymous Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:38:59 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Tales of the Crypto Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Tales of the Crypto U.S. government works to replace Data Encryption Standard By Jim Kerstetter, PC Week Online 01.12.98 10:00 am ET The days of DES, which for the past 20 years has been the foundation for government and commercial cryptography around the world, are numbered. The U.S. government has embarked on an expansive project to replace the Data Encryption Standard. By the end of this year, a panel of cryptographers, headed by the National Institute of Standards and Technology, is expected to pick a new cryptographic algorithm to replace DES as the government's standard. The changeover to the new algorithm, to be called the Advanced Encryption Standard, won't happen overnight. In fact, the selection process could end up taking years. But whatever AES ultimately becomes, one thing is clear: The new standard will force major change for both the IT and developer communities. Anyone selling the government software that uses encryption for security will have to support the AES algorithm, which could become the standard for decades to come. Corporations conducting secure transactions with the government over the Internet will also have to rely on software that supports AES. And, in several years, AES could replace DES for private-key encryption in most commercial security algorithms. "Right now, I'm using PGP [Pretty Good Privacy] for some things. But the bulk of what we use here is with DES," said Paul O'Donnell, security manager at an Illinois manufacturer. "Should I be paying attention to what they [NIST] are doing? I suppose so." It's a change many say is overdue. DES was developed by IBM and the government in the 1970s. It was intended to last five to 10 years, said Dennis Branstad, an early DES developer for NIST's forerunner, the Institute of Computer Sciences and Technology. "It was a good algorithm. It turned out to be better than we thought," said Branstad, now director of cryptographic technologies at Trusted Information Systems Inc., in Glenwood, Md. "But it took longer to be accepted than we thought it would. There was no demand for it." DES is a symmetric, or private, key algorithm in which both the sender and receiver of a message must have a copy of the private key. It also can be used to encrypt data on a hard disk. It is found in an array of security protocols in the corporate world, ranging from secure E-mail software to virtual private network technology. DES' 56-bit private keys were unhackable until last year, when a nationwide network of computer users broke a DES key in 140 days--hardly an easy effort, but a harbinger of things to come as processing speed increases. Some experts now argue that it could take less than a week to break DES, with less than $100,000 worth of hardware. According to John Callas, chief technology officer of the Total Network Security Division of Network Associates Inc., a good hacker, with about $50,000 worth of specialty hardware, could crack a DES key in an hour. "Anybody who can afford a BMW can afford a DES cracker," said Callas, whose hypothesis will be tested in DES Challenge II this week at the RSA Data Security Conference, in San Francisco. Since most experts agree it's time to replace DES, the question becomes, Just what will AES be? Last summer, NIST released a 30-page document outlining its recommendations for a DES replacement and asking for submissions. There are three minimum technical criteria: The algorithm must be symmetric, or private, key. Public algorithms, such as elliptic curve (see related story) and Diffie-Hellman, though useful for authentication and the initial handshake between users, are considered too slow. The algorithm must be a "block cipher." Within the realm of symmetric keys there are two basic types of ciphers, block and stream. A block cipher, like DES, encrypts specific chunks of data. A stream cipher, like RSA Data Security Inc.'s RC4 algorithm, encrypts a steady flow of information. RC4 is the base encryption engine for Secure Sockets Layer, the security technology used in browsers. Some cryptographers are pushing NIST to consider stream ciphers because of their growing popularity. The algorithm has to be capable of supporting key lengths ranging from 128 bits to 256 bits and variable blocks of data. AES must also be efficient. Triple DES, a later version of the government's algorithm also developed by IBM, is far more secure than DES, running the 56-bit encryption three times. But that strength is also its weakness, because the repetition cycle slows it down considerably. Finally, the AES algorithm has to be made public and royalty-free. That could prove to be a sticking point for RSA, of Redwood City, Calif., which has traditionally held on to the royalties of its cryptographic creations. A conference at which cryptographers will present their algorithms is scheduled for this summer. And although NIST officials hope their analysis will be completed in 1998, many think it may take years to review the submittals, which are due by April 15. Major security vendors are noncommittal on proposing an algorithm. IBM, which created DES, with help from the National Security Agency, is hedging on whether it will participate. Triple DES is considered a likely entry, but its inefficiency could make it a difficult sell. Another IBM algorithm, DES/SK, could be in the running. RSA, if it decides to enter, could submit either its RC4 algorithm (the stream cipher) or RC5, which is a block cipher. Other likely competitors include Cast, a royalty-free algorithm controlled by Entrust Technologies Inc., or the unpatented Blowfish algorithm, created by Bruce Schneier. "It will be a standard for 20 to 30 years, in legacy systems for at least another 10, securing data that might need to be secured for at least another 20," Schneier wrote in a letter to NIST. "This means we are trying to estimate security in the year 2060. I can't estimate security 10 years from now, let alone 60. The only wise option is to be very conservative." A Data Encryption Standard primer What is DES? It was designed by IBM and endorsed by the U.S. government in 1977. What kind of encryption key does DES use? A symmetric, or private, key in which both the sender and the receiver know the key. It can also be used to encrypt data on a hard disk. What key length does DES use? 56 bits. Is DES safe? For most purposes, yes. But DES was hacked for the first time last year, and cryptographers worry that improved processing speeds will spell its demise. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Wardemon" Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:42:52 +0800 To: Subject: HP BBS's? Telnet? Message-ID: <199801130340.WAA19281@smtp3.erols.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Does anyone have any elite HP BBS's that I could telnet to ???? Thanks wardemon@erols.com From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Brian B. Riley" Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 12:08:57 +0800 To: "CypherPunks List" Subject: Re: Talk of Banning Research into Human Cloning Message-ID: <199801130405.XAA26577@mx02.together.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On 1/12/98 3:32 PM, Tim May (tcmay@got.net) passed this wisdom: >Any implications for crypto? If Congress can successfully make >certain types of science illegal, felonizing the search for truth, >why not a ban on certain types of mathematics research? I think many of us are understandably nervous about the mistakes that could be made in the process of perfecting human cloning. But Tim's point is well taken, yet another potential 'slippery slope.' It also begs the question again of 'are we getting too paranoid?' I think the nanswer is still "no, not yet", as the Klinton administration proves to us almost every day it seems. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBNLroFD7r4fUXwraZAQF9Cwf6AtGeZgKDN3nwY0FMsxoTgwXgalRmjGJT gqliyEIdYfqcQK/kGTFYvBbcGd0xl1dr+XpmJXvr7ItQ8lrsyyqEozGC2KJGYpJe 7C8nMl/nf49Pd4UcJRNZb86qAdwAB7wERW7nL8aGB5Bzm46tKEeaAS2jrzxVOgIt z7ysxDd+VNoU2czWrergrhvDjbtnXKjPVcIfwkN0M57SJgdWqIlX/fo5HLuiw8IZ i/Qg8JsLXJgnWr5ZDgrSRSNgVqmwAaV8980piBGyqY0X9ytOcYdjV197+rz55Hkh iqzIQm6aQa5BJuDy3p8B44LlICtxFB0XZP1UdgvRCbFWO3YD8P3mOA== =O6Dk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Brian B. Riley --> http://members.macconnect.com/~brianbr For PGP Keys "It's what you learn after you know it all that counts" John Wooden From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Anonymous Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 12:38:07 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Crypto Jokes Message-ID: <1fcdbf50ad69ffa37f0660c6b77013e9@anon.efga.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >Inspired by "Crypto Kong," contributions of crypto jokes >are requested, to enliven our Web site, which is pretty >gray these days without congressional buffoonery. Just post the contents of http://www.meganet.com/explain.htm. Those people are just plain stupid. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Anonymous Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 07:08:05 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199801122245.XAA04631@basement.replay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain If man were meant to clone, he'd have twins. - Anon From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: nobody@nsm.htp.org Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 08:20:59 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: Congratulations! Message-ID: <19980113000743.988.qmail@nsm.htp.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >To: Anonymous >cc: cypherpunks@toad.com, abuse@MCI.Com, >hostmaster@cyber-dyne.com Ha, ha, ha! who CC'd the "Congratulations" thread to those addresses?? (would they know how to smurf d00d?) This list gets fucking better! From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 13:45:14 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: Talk of Banning Research into Human Cloning (fwd) Message-ID: <199801130612.AAA25763@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 06:10:14 +0100 (MET) > Subject: Re: Talk of Banning Research into Human Cloning > From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) > > Though I'm not a constitutional expert, this would seem to me to be a > > violation of various rights. A First Amendment right to speak and publish > > as one wishes for one, a Fourth Amendment right against search and seizure > > Actually, not at all. > > There is no ban on publishing information on cloning, "just" a ban on the > activity. Spin doctor bullshit. Without the research there isn't anything to publish. By banning the basic research we would in fact be banning the publishing of the results of that scientific research. > Hence the first amendment is not implicated. If it were the > case the every action (as opposed to speech/publication) were protected by > the 1st Am. then every statute making robbery a crime would be > unconstitutional too. Not at all. Equating swinging of ones fist in a empty field and swinging it into somebodies nose and then taking that supposition as justification to ban fist swinging *is* most certainly unconstitutional. Furthermore, robbery isn't illegal under the Constitution unless its the federal government taking the material and refusing to follow the Constitutional directive to pay for *all* property, irrespective of how it was gained, for public use as those duties are relegated per the 10th to the purvue of the states. > Similarly, the 4th Am. is not implicated. The right to be secure against > UNREASONABLE search and seizure is not violated when and if congress > passes a law defining a new crime, or you are arrested for committing it. The question here is whether Congress even *has* the power to regulate those sorts of behaviours without an amendment being passed by the states to surrender their authority per the 9th and 10th to the federal government. > > and to be secure in one's papers, and probably more general rights that > > have long-held that government agents cannot tell people what books they > > again, note that the ban is on CLONING, not THINKING OR WRITING OR READING > about cloning. It's not the same thing. Without doing the research it isn't possible to think very much about cloning except in a *very* abstract manner. That forcing of abstraction against ones will may very well infact be unconstitutional. > > may read, what thinking they may do, and whom they may asssociate with (if > > the Civil Rights Act is viewed as the unconstitutional anomaly it is). > > This is an aside, but the CRA is in no way anomalous given the 13th, 14th > and 15th Amendments. It is only "anomalous" if one sticks to the > Constitution as written in the 18th century... and ignores the articles > written in that same century that clearly contemplate amendments.... The articles contemplating the amendments are irrelevant to this issue. Only the actual amendments are relevant. What people might *want* to do has nothing to do with what they *can* do under the limiting documents of this country. > > But a ban on cloning research would not be a matter of "national security," > > only of ethics and religious beliefs. Whatever the arguments for banning > > unapproved research into CBW and nuclear weapons, banning cloning research > > is an entirely different set of issues. > > > > Arguably, many of the legal bans in force today are due to ethics, e.g.: No, they are a result of political wrangling by small groups to gain political power and the economic and social conseuences thereof. They also result from a clearly premeditated absolution of the Constitution that these self same 'representatives' gave an oath to uphold with their lives. The justification that is profered is the ethics of the constituents. > A. Michael Froomkin +1 (305) 284-4285; +1 (305) 284-6506 (fax) > Associate Professor of Law > U. Miami School of Law froomkin@law.miami.edu > P.O. Box 248087 http://www.law.miami.edu/~froomkin/ > Coral Gables, FL 33124 USA It's warm here. Your a law professor and your logic, respect for the Constitution, and basic scientific comprehension is this bad? No damn wonder we're in the shit hole we're in now... ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 14:04:29 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Federal govt. & Science - Const. limits Message-ID: <199801130632.AAA25882@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Congress has *no* authority to ban *any* scientific research. In fact they are specificaly enjoined to *promote* it. Section 8. The Congress shall have Power... [text deleted] To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries; [remainder deleted] ARTICLE IX. The enumeration of the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people. ARTICLE X. The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 14:08:43 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Congress' *real* job... Message-ID: <199801130636.AAA25986@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Congress' real job should not be passing laws providing funding, prohibiting activities, etc. It *should* be in creating and passing Constitutional amendments per the 10th that re-define the responsibilities and duties of the federal government within the changing millieu of the current society. This way the people via their state representatives have a much closer input into what the feds are actualy enpowered to do and to who. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Anonymous Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 14:03:18 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Description of the RC2(r) Encryption Algorithm Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Ron Rivest MIT Laboratory for Computer Science and RSA Data Security, Inc. November 1997 Request for Comments: Category: Informational A Description of the RC2(r) Encryption Algorithm Status of this Memo This memo provides information for the Internet community. This memo does not specify an Internet standard of any kind. Distribution of this memo is unlimited. This document is an Internet-Draft. Internet-Drafts are working documents of the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF), its areas, and its working groups. Note that other groups may also distribute working documents as Internet-Drafts. Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of six months and may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other documents at any time. It is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as reference material or to cite them other than as "work in progress." To learn the current status of any Internet-Draft, please check the "1id-abstracts.txt" listing contained in the Internet-Drafts Shadow Directories on ftp.is.co.za (Africa), nic.nordu.net (Europe), munnari.oz.au (Pacific Rim), ds.internic.net (US East Coast), or ftp.isi.edu (US West Coast). 1. Introduction This draft is an RSA Laboratories Technical Note. It is meant for informational use by the Internet community. This memo describes a conventional (secret-key) block encryption algorithm, called RC2, which may be considered as a proposal for a DES replacement. The input and output block sizes are 64 bits each. The key size is variable, from one byte up to 128 bytes, although the current implementation uses eight bytes. The algorithm is designed to be easy to implement on 16-bit microprocessors. On an IBM AT, the encryption runs about twice as fast as DES (assuming that key expansion has been done). 1.1 Algorithm description We use the term "word" to denote a 16-bit quantity. The symbol + will denote twos-complement addition. The symbol & will denote the bitwise "and" operation. The term XOR will denote the bitwise "exclusive-or" operation. The symbol ~ will denote bitwise complement. The symbol ^ will denote the exponentiation operation. The term MOD will denote the modulo operation. There are three separate algorithms involved: Key expansion. This takes a (variable-length) input key and produces an expanded key consisting of 64 words K[0],...,K[63]. Encryption. This takes a 64-bit input quantity stored in words R[0], ..., R[3] and encrypts it "in place" (the result is left in R[0], ..., R[3]). Decryption. The inverse operation to encryption. 2. Key expansion Since we will be dealing with eight-bit byte operations as well as 16-bit word operations, we will use two alternative notations for referring to the key buffer: For word operations, we will refer to the positions of the buffer as K[0], ..., K[63]; each K[i] is a 16-bit word. For byte operations, we will refer to the key buffer as L[0], ..., L[127]; each L[i] is an eight-bit byte. These are alternative views of the same data buffer. At all times it will be true that K[i] = L[2*i] + 256*L[2*i+1]. (Note that the low-order byte of each K word is given before the high-order byte.) We will assume that exactly T bytes of key are supplied, for some T in the range 1 <= T <= 128. (Our current implementation uses T = 8.) However, regardless of T, the algorithm has a maximum effective key length in bits, denoted T1. That is, the search space is 2^(8*T), or 2^T1, whichever is smaller. The purpose of the key-expansion algorithm is to modify the key buffer so that each bit of the expanded key depends in a complicated way on every bit of the supplied input key. The key expansion algorithm begins by placing the supplied T-byte key into bytes L[0], ..., L[T-1] of the key buffer. The key expansion algorithm then computes the effective key length in bytes T8 and a mask TM based on the effective key length in bits T1. It uses the following operations: T8 = (T1+7)/8; TM = 255 MOD 2^(8 + T1 - 8*T8); Thus TM has its 8 - (8*T8 - T1) least significant bits set. For example, with an effective key length of 64 bits, T1 = 64, T8 = 8 and TM = 0xff. With an effective key length of 63 bits, T1 = 63, T8 = 8 and TM = 0x7f. Here PITABLE[0], ..., PITABLE[255] is an array of "random" bytes based on the digits of PI = 3.14159... . More precisely, the array PITABLE is a random permutation of the values 0, ..., 255. Here is the PITABLE in hexadecimal notation: 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 a b c d e f 00: d9 78 f9 c4 19 dd b5 ed 28 e9 fd 79 4a a0 d8 9d 10: c6 7e 37 83 2b 76 53 8e 62 4c 64 88 44 8b fb a2 20: 17 9a 59 f5 87 b3 4f 13 61 45 6d 8d 09 81 7d 32 30: bd 8f 40 eb 86 b7 7b 0b f0 95 21 22 5c 6b 4e 82 40: 54 d6 65 93 ce 60 b2 1c 73 56 c0 14 a7 8c f1 dc 50: 12 75 ca 1f 3b be e4 d1 42 3d d4 30 a3 3c b6 26 60: 6f bf 0e da 46 69 07 57 27 f2 1d 9b bc 94 43 03 70: f8 11 c7 f6 90 ef 3e e7 06 c3 d5 2f c8 66 1e d7 80: 08 e8 ea de 80 52 ee f7 84 aa 72 ac 35 4d 6a 2a 90: 96 1a d2 71 5a 15 49 74 4b 9f d0 5e 04 18 a4 ec a0: c2 e0 41 6e 0f 51 cb cc 24 91 af 50 a1 f4 70 39 b0: 99 7c 3a 85 23 b8 b4 7a fc 02 36 5b 25 55 97 31 c0: 2d 5d fa 98 e3 8a 92 ae 05 df 29 10 67 6c ba c9 d0: d3 00 e6 cf e1 9e a8 2c 63 16 01 3f 58 e2 89 a9 e0: 0d 38 34 1b ab 33 ff b0 bb 48 0c 5f b9 b1 cd 2e f0: c5 f3 db 47 e5 a5 9c 77 0a a6 20 68 fe 7f c1 ad The key expansion operation consists of the following two loops and intermediate step: for i = T, T+1, ..., 127 do L[i] = PITABLE[L[i-1] + L[i-T]]; L[128-T8] = PITABLE[L[128-T8] & TM]; for i = 127-T8, ..., 0 do L[i] = PITABLE[L[i+1] XOR L[i+T8]]; (In the first loop, the addition of L[i-1] and L[i-T] is performed modulo 256.) The "effective key" consists of the values L[128-T8],..., L[127]. The intermediate step's bitwise "and" operation reduces the search space for L[128-T8] so that the effective number of key bits is T1. The expanded key depends only on the effective key bits, regardless of the supplied key K. Since the expanded key is not itself modified during encryption or decryption, as a pragmatic matter one can expand the key just once when encrypting or decrypting a large block of data. 3. Encryption algorithm The encryption operation is defined in terms of primitive "mix" and "mash" operations. Here the expression "x rol k" denotes the 16-bit word x rotated left by k bits, with the bits shifted out the top end entering the bottom end. 3.1 Mix up R[i] The primitive "Mix up R[i]" operation is defined as follows, where s[0] is 1, s[1] is 2, s[2] is 3, and s[3] is 5, and where the indices of the array R are always to be considered "modulo 4," so that R[i-1] refers to R[3] if i is 0 (these values are "wrapped around" so that R always has a subscript in the range 0 to 3 inclusive): R[i] = R[i] + K[j] + (R[i-1] & R[i-2]) + ((~R[i-1]) & R[i-3]); j = j + 1; R[i] = R[i] rol s[i]; In words: The next key word K[j] is added to R[i], and j is advanced. Then R[i-1] is used to create a "composite" word which is added to R[i]. The composite word is identical with R[i-2] in those positions where R[i-1] is one, and identical to R[i-3] in those positions where R[i-1] is zero. Then R[i] is rotated left by s[i] bits (bits rotated out the left end of R[i] are brought back in at the right). Here j is a "global" variable so that K[j] is always the first key word in the expanded key which has not yet been used in a "mix" operation. 3.2 Mixing round A "mixing round" consists of the following operations: Mix up R[0] Mix up R[1] Mix up R[2] Mix up R[3] 3.3 Mash R[i] The primitive "Mash R[i]" operation is defined as follows (using the previous conventions regarding subscripts for R): R[i] = R[i] + K[R[i-1] & 63]; In words: R[i] is "mashed" by adding to it one of the words of the expanded key. The key word to be used is determined by looking at the low-order six bits of R[i-1], and using that as an index into the key array K. 3.4 Mashing round A "mashing round" consists of: Mash R[0] Mash R[1] Mash R[2] Mash R[3] 3.5 Encryption operation The entire encryption operation can now be described as follows. Here j is a global integer variable which is affected by the mixing operations. 1. Initialize words R[0], ..., R[3] to contain the 64-bit input value. 2. Expand the key, so that words K[0], ..., K[63] become defined. 3. Initialize j to zero. 4. Perform five mixing rounds. 5. Perform one mashing round. 6. Perform six mixing rounds. 7. Perform one mashing round. 8. Perform five mixing rounds. Note that each mixing round uses four key words, and that there are 16 mixing rounds altogether, so that each key word is used exactly once in a mixing round. The mashing rounds will refer to up to eight of the key words in a data-dependent manner. (There may be repetitions, and the actual set of words referred to will vary from encryption to encryption.) 4. Decryption algorithm The decryption operation is defined in terms of primitive operations that undo the "mix" and "mash" operations of the encryption algorithm. They are named "r-mix" and "r-mash" (r- denotes the reverse operation). Here the expression "x ror k" denotes the 16-bit word x rotated right by k bits, with the bits shifted out the bottom end entering the top end. 4.1 R-Mix up R[i] The primitive "R-Mix up R[i]" operation is defined as follows, where s[0] is 1, s[1] is 2, s[2] is 3, and s[3] is 5, and where the indices of the array R are always to be considered "modulo 4," so that R[i-1] refers to R[3] if i is 0 (these values are "wrapped around" so that R always has a subscript in the range 0 to 3 inclusive): R[i] = R[i] ror s[i]; R[i] = R[i] - K[j] - (R[i-1] & R[i-2]) - ((~R[i-1]) & R[i-3]); j = j - 1; In words: R[i] is rotated right by s[i] bits (bits rotated out the right end of R[i] are brought back in at the left). Here j is a "global" variable so that K[j] is always the key word with greatest index in the expanded key which has not yet been used in a "r-mix" operation. The key word K[j] is subtracted from R[i], and j is decremented. R[i-1] is used to create a "composite" word which is subtracted from R[i]. The composite word is identical with R[i-2] in those positions where R[i-1] is one, and identical to R[i-3] in those positions where R[i-1] is zero. 4.2 R-Mixing round An "r-mixing round" consists of the following operations: R-Mix up R[3] R-Mix up R[2] R-Mix up R[1] R-Mix up R[0] 4.3 R-Mash R[i] The primitive "R-Mash R[i]" operation is defined as follows (using the previous conventions regarding subscripts for R): R[i] = R[i] - K[R[i-1] & 63]; In words: R[i] is "r-mashed" by subtracting from it one of the words of the expanded key. The key word to be used is determined by looking at the low-order six bits of R[i-1], and using that as an index into the key array K. 4.4 R-Mashing round An "r-mashing round" consists of: R-Mash R[3] R-Mash R[2] R-Mash R[1] R-Mash R[0] 4.5 Decryption operation The entire decryption operation can now be described as follows. Here j is a global integer variable which is affected by the mixing operations. 1. Initialize words R[0], ..., R[3] to contain the 64-bit ciphertext value. 2. Expand the key, so that words K[0], ..., K[63] become defined. 3. Initialize j to 63. 4. Perform five r-mixing rounds. 5. Perform one r-mashing round. 6. Perform six r-mixing rounds. 7. Perform one r-mashing round. 8. Perform five r-mixing rounds. 5. Test vectors Test vectors for encryption with RC2 are provided below. All quantities are given in hexadecimal notation. Key length (bytes) = 8 Effective key length (bits) = 63 Key = 00000000 00000000 Plaintext = 00000000 00000000 Ciphertext = ebb773f9 93278eff Key length (bytes) = 8 Effective key length (bits) = 64 Key = ffffffff ffffffff Plaintext = ffffffff ffffffff Ciphertext = 278b27e4 2e2f0d49 Key length (bytes) = 8 Effective key length (bits) = 64 Key = 30000000 00000000 Plaintext = 10000000 00000001 Ciphertext = 30649edf 9be7d2c2 Key length (bytes) = 1 Effective key length (bits) = 64 Key = 88 Plaintext = 00000000 00000000 Ciphertext = 61a8a244 adacccf0 Key length (bytes) = 7 Effective key length (bits) = 64 Key = 88bca90e 90875a Plaintext = 00000000 00000000 Ciphertext = 6ccf4308 974c267f Key length (bytes) = 16 Effective key length (bits) = 64 Key = 88bca90e 90875a7f 0f79c384 627bafb2 Plaintext = 00000000 00000000 Ciphertext = 1a807d27 2bbe5db1 Key length (bytes) = 16 Effective key length (bits) = 128 Key = 88bca90e 90875a7f 0f79c384 627bafb2 Plaintext = 00000000 00000000 Ciphertext = 2269552a b0f85ca6 Key length (bytes) = 33 Effective key length (bits) = 129 Key = 88bca90e 90875a7f 0f79c384 627bafb2 16f80a6f 85920584 c42fceb0 be255daf 1e Plaintext = 00000000 00000000 Ciphertext = 5b78d3a4 3dfff1f1 6. RC2 Algorithm Object Identifier The Object Identifier for RC2 in cipher block chaining mode is rc2CBC OBJECT IDENTIFIER ::= {iso(1) member-body(2) US(840) rsadsi(113549) encryptionAlgorithm(3) 2} RC2-CBC takes parameters RC2-CBCParameter ::= CHOICE { iv IV, params SEQUENCE { version RC2Version, iv IV } } where IV ::= OCTET STRING -- 8 octets RC2Version ::= INTEGER -- 1-1024 RC2 in CBC mode has two parameters: an 8-byte initialization vector (IV) and a version number in the range 1-1024 which specifies in a roundabout manner the number of effective key bits to be used for the RC2 encryption/decryption. The correspondence between effective key bits and version number is as follows: 1. If the number EKB of effective key bits is in the range 1-255, then the version number is given by Table[EKB], where the 256-byte translation table Table[] is specified below. Table[] specifies a permutation on the numbers 0-255; note that it is not the same table that appears in the key expansion phase of RC2. 2. If the number EKB of effective key bits is in the range 256-1024, then the version number is simply EKB. The default number of effective key bits for RC2 is 32. If RC2-CBC is being performed with 32 effective key bits, the parameters should be supplied as a simple IV, rather than as a SEQUENCE containing a version and an IV. 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 a b c d e f 00: bd 56 ea f2 a2 f1 ac 2a b0 93 d1 9c 1b 33 fd d0 10: 30 04 b6 dc 7d df 32 4b f7 cb 45 9b 31 bb 21 5a 20: 41 9f e1 d9 4a 4d 9e da a0 68 2c c3 27 5f 80 36 30: 3e ee fb 95 1a fe ce a8 34 a9 13 f0 a6 3f d8 0c 40: 78 24 af 23 52 c1 67 17 f5 66 90 e7 e8 07 b8 60 50: 48 e6 1e 53 f3 92 a4 72 8c 08 15 6e 86 00 84 fa 60: f4 7f 8a 42 19 f6 db cd 14 8d 50 12 ba 3c 06 4e 70: ec b3 35 11 a1 88 8e 2b 94 99 b7 71 74 d3 e4 bf 80: 3a de 96 0e bc 0a ed 77 fc 37 6b 03 79 89 62 c6 90: d7 c0 d2 7c 6a 8b 22 a3 5b 05 5d 02 75 d5 61 e3 a0: 18 8f 55 51 ad 1f 0b 5e 85 e5 c2 57 63 ca 3d 6c b0: b4 c5 cc 70 b2 91 59 0d 47 20 c8 4f 58 e0 01 e2 c0: 16 38 c4 6f 3b 0f 65 46 be 7e 2d 7b 82 f9 40 b5 d0: 1d 73 f8 eb 26 c7 87 97 25 54 b1 28 aa 98 9d a5 e0: 64 6d 7a d4 10 81 44 ef 49 d6 ae 2e dd 76 5c 2f f0: a7 1c c9 09 69 9a 83 cf 29 39 b9 e9 4c ff 43 ab A. Intellectual Property Notice RC2 is a registered trademark of RSA Data Security, Inc. RSA's copyrighted RC2 software is available under license from RSA Data Security, Inc. B. Author's Address Ron Rivest RSA Laboratories 100 Marine Parkway, #500 Redwood City, CA 94065 USA (650) 595-7703 rsa-labs@rsa.com From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 14:31:19 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: MS presents technical defence [CNN] Message-ID: <199801130659.AAA26115@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > MICROSOFT TO PRESENT LENGTHY TECHNICAL DEFENSE > > graphic January 12, 1998 > Web posted at: 11:14 p.m. EST (0414 GMT) > > WASHINGTON (AP) -- Microsoft Corp., attempting to fend off contempt > of court charges, plans to make a detailed defense in court that its > Internet Explorer software is interwoven with its popular Windows 95 > program and the two can't be separated without debilitating the > Windows program. > > Attorneys for Microsoft and the Justice Department are scheduled to > face off in federal court again Tuesday in the latest chapter of the > bitter antitrust lawsuit. The Justice Department has asked U.S. > District Judge Thomas Penfield Jackson to find Microsoft in contempt > of his December 11 order that it separate its Internet browser > software from Windows. [text deleted] ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Ryan Anderson Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 15:11:42 +0800 To: Eric Cordian Subject: Re: Feds to Idaho: Kiss Our Butts In-Reply-To: <199801130255.UAA21084@wire.insync.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Mon, 12 Jan 1998, Eric Cordian wrote: > > The manslaughter case against Ruby Ridge shooter Lon Horiuchi was > effectively neutered today when a federal judge acquiesed to demands > by Justice Department lawyers and moved the case out of Idaho's > jurisdiction and into federal court. This means that Horiuchi will be > tried in federal court in front of a federal jury on state > manslaughter charges, and not in front of a jury from Idaho's Boundary > County, where the shooting took place. I thought the people in our governmnet didn't really think things through before... Now I know they don't even think. >From a purely pragmatic point of view, they should have realized that only a trial without any hint of federal interference had any hope of reducing the growing distrist of government. Even though the whole Ruby Ridge incident stinks, you'd think they'd at least have the brains to do proper damage control. Though, a conviction would certainly shock this country a little bit, wouldn't it? Ryan Anderson - Alpha Geek PGP fp: 7E 8E C6 54 96 AC D9 57 E4 F8 AE 9C 10 7E 78 C9 print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 17:33:04 +0800 To: Anonymous Subject: Re: Accounts payable In-Reply-To: <199801090607.HAA01799@basement.replay.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Fri, 9 Jan 1998, Anonymous wrote: I think Vulis needs each of us to send ten copies of this back to him. > Timmy C[rook] May is just a poor excuse for an unschooled, retarded thug. > > (_) _____ (_) > /O O\ Timmy C[rook] May > ! I ! > ! \___/ ! > \_____/ > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Graham-John Bullers Moderator of alt.2600.moderated ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ email : : ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://www.freenet.edmonton.ab.ca/~real/index.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Graham-John Bullers Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 17:14:41 +0800 To: Anonymous Subject: Re: Cute In-Reply-To: <199801091520.QAA29876@basement.replay.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Fri, 9 Jan 1998, Anonymous wrote: I think Vulis needs each of us to send ten copies of this back to him. > Tim May is cute and cuddly! > > (_) _____ (_) > /O O\ Timmy C[uddly] May > ! I ! > ! \___/ ! > \_____/ > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Graham-John Bullers Moderator of alt.2600.moderated ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ email : : ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://www.freenet.edmonton.ab.ca/~real/index.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Adam Back Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:19:07 +0800 To: thomas.womack@merton.oxford.ac.uk Subject: Re: local vs remote eternity servers (Re: (eternity) Traffic Analysis) In-Reply-To: <01bd1fad$24885680$409001a3@mc64.merton.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <199801130215.CAA00351@server.eternity.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Thomas Womack writes: > >Thomas Womack writes: > >> I can imagine *use* of > >> the service becoming a felony; you're therefore committing a felony > >> merely by connecting to http://www.eternity.to, and acquiring > >> evidence for that is a trivial matter of logging connections from a > >> given user. > > > >One solution is to run eternity on a web server with SSL turned on, > >and which serves lots of other data too. > > It's not completely clear that such an object would exist; in legal terms, > it would seem to be the same as a large and well-respected department store > which happens to possess and tolerate a fence for stolen property. That is, > it's an object which handles stolen property and can be shouted at loudly, > legally, and with very large sticks. Yes, but merely being seen going into this department store is you hope not grounds for prosecution. ie The flow of the discussion being that you said "you're therefore committing a felony by connecting to www.eternity.to" .. my reply being that if we can arrange that there are any number of reasons for connecting to www.eternity.to, any of which are protected by an SSL connection, that this lessens the risks of being seen connecting to said server. We can easily arrange this by offering interesting free services. Certainly turning on SSL does not protect the server operator. There server operator in your analogy was the department store owner. But we were discussing the client (the shopper)'s risks. > >The general problem with the remote server approach is that you have > >to trust the server. You could alternatively use a local eternity > >server, which is easy to do if you have a local unix machine. > > The operating system is immaterial here! Ah, not if you are talking about my eternity prototype, because it only works on the unix platform. Same for Ryan at present I think. The overloading of "eternity service" is not helping here. My point was that talking about my eternity prototype using USENET as a distribution medium, where the `eternity server' is just a convenient way to present an apparently persistent view of transient USENET articles, using a local eternity server reduces the risk of traffic analysis attack. Now all you are doing is reading news. If you already have a full USENET feed, you have no new externally observable traffic. This process would be better termed a `local eternity proxy', in that it would effectively be acting as a local web proxy process, where the eternity virtual web pages were being fetched from a local news spool by the local web proxy. > >Ideally you would like a local news feed also, so that your local > >eternity servers NNTP traffic or file system accesses to read news are > >not available to the attacker. > > That nearly makes sense - but 'running a news feed including the eternal.* > groups' can be phrased such that any sane jury takes it as 'using/running an > eternity server'. Cross-post, and / or post to random newsgroups, threshold secret split your posts so that only N of M are required to reconstruct. If you get shouted at for SPAM, steganographically encode the eternity traffic. Pornographic images in alt.binaries.* would be suitable because there are lots of those already. Because this is a publically readable message an attacker (such as Ryan's system admin he mentioned at MIT) might recognize the message based on successful stego decoding, and purge it from the news feed. We can counter this move by encrypting the original posting, and posting the decryption key a day or two later to ensure we get the full feed before anti-eternity crusaders get to work purging the eternity traffic masquerading as images. USENET carries all sorts of materials which could potentially get you in trouble. I don't know what your news feed is like, but the one at Exeter last time I looked had a healthy selection of dodgy gifs in alt.binaries.* > >Depending on your available resources, you can either operate from a > >local news feed (people are less likely to be prosecuted for the > >contents of a normal full newsfeed IMO), or have SSL access to a > >remote ISPs NNTP server. > > I suspect that, had anyone the least intention of arresting certain of my > acquaintances on a trumped-up charge, they could persuade a jury that a > 'normal' full newsfeed is sanitised, and that a newsfeed containing *warez* > or *erotica* is clearly an Evil Perversion of the Natural Law. We can't do much about the idiotic juries, and corrupt judicial systems ... `they'd indict a ham sandwich if I told them to' -- some US judge. You're probably right too. But I think we need to keep a sense of proportion about opening ourselves to having technical actions misconstrued to a clueless jury: there are easier ways to frame someone once they have decided they don't like you. To truly retain plausible deniability you need to maintain excellent plausible deniability, you have to be squeaky clean: you need to appear to be a model citizen, to not post politically incorrect opinions to non-government approved fora, etc. You must be below the radar belt, you must be essentially invisible to the government, the spooks dossier on you must read Mr Average and be entirely wholesome. Then you must have one or more alter-egos, for your real interests. > >> How can you defend against the felonisation of 'operating an Eternity > >> Server'? > > > >Operate closed eternity servers for small group only, or a local > >server for yourself or local users only. > > But wasn't the point of the eternity service that it was massively > distributed; if you're running a server for a small group consisting of > forty-nine hackers and the deputy director of the NSA going incognito, > you'll suddenly discover that all your servers have been seized, and that > men with intimidating glasses want to ask you a number of searching > questions. The surest way is to run the eternity server for yourself only. The distribution medium is massively distributed, as the distribution medium is USENET. USENET is a broadcast medium. Possibly the most secure way to create one way anonymous communications is to broadcast the messages. Tim May's BlackNet uses this approach. Eternity is doing the same thing. Adam From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Graham-John Bullers Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 17:40:57 +0800 To: Mix Subject: Re: your mail In-Reply-To: <199801111151.DAA14980@sirius.infonex.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Sun, 11 Jan 1998, Mix wrote: I think Vulis needs each of us to send ten copies of this back to him. > Timmy C. Maypole is a pimply dweeb sitting at a computer > chortling at his own imagined cleverness. > > (/T\) _____ (/V\) > (-,-) ()====) . + . . + ('.') Timmy C. Maypole > \(o)/ -|3 . . . . J\~/L > /=' > ,OOO//| | .+ . <%%%%%%%%%%%O >|< \ooo, > O:O:O LLLLL + . . . . I . //|\\ o:0:o > \OOO/ || || . . . + . ~|~|~ \ooo/ > C_) (_D _I I_ > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Graham-John Bullers Moderator of alt.2600.moderated ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ email : : ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://www.freenet.edmonton.ab.ca/~real/index.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Adam Back Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:18:48 +0800 To: tcmay@got.net Subject: steganography and delayed release of keys (Re: Eternity Services) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801130246.CAA00384@server.eternity.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Tim May writes: > News spool services are already showing signs of getting into this "Usenet > censorship" business in a bigger way. Some news spool services honor > cancellations (and some don't). Some don't carry the "sensitive" > newsgroups. And so on. Nothing in their setup really exempts them from > child porn prosecutions--no more so than a bookstore or video store is > exempted, as the various busts of bookstores and whatnot show, including > the "Tin Drum" video rental case in Oklahoma City. One tactic which could protect a USENET newsgroup operator from child porn prosecutions is if he had no practical way to recognize such materials until after it was distributed to down stream sites. Using steganography, we could for example adopt a strategy such as this: 1) Cross-post, and / or post to random newsgroups 2) Threshold secret split your posts so that only N of M are required to reconstruct. 3) steganographically encode the eternity traffic. Pornographic images in alt.binaries.* would be suitable because there are lots of those already. 4) Encrypt the original steganographically encoded posting (encrypt the eternity document and hide it inside the image file posted) 5) Post the decryption key a day or two later to ensure we get the full feed before a censor can recognize the traffic The attacker is now forced to delay USENET posts until the key is posted if he wishes to censor eternity articles. Measures 1) and 2) address the problems with newsgroups not being carried everywhere. 2) improves reliability as distribution can be patchy. Cancellations can be discouraged by liberal abuse of cancellation forgeries, which a Dimitri Vulis aided greatly by providing easy to use cancel bot software. A worrying trend is the use of NoCeMs to filter whole news feeds, where the NoCeM rating system I considered was designed for third party ratings applied by individuals. NoCeMs could become a negative if used in this way, because news admins may use them as a tool to censor large parts of the USENET distribution, in too centralised a way. > >The solution I am using is to keep reposting articles via remailers. > >Have agents which you pay to repost. This presents the illusion of > > This of course doesn't scale at all well. It is semi-OK for a tiny, sparse > set of reposted items, but fails utterly for larger database sets. (If and > when Adam's reposted volumes begin to get significant, he will be viewed as > a spammer. :-) ) The best criticism of my eternity design to date! I agree. But this limitation is difficult to avoid while retaining the level of availability. Trade offs improving efficiency will tend to move away from an existing widespread broadcast medium (USENET) towards specialised protocols, and pull technology (the web hosting model), leading to actual machines serving materials. We can probably arrange that these servers do not know what they are serving, however if the whole protocol is setup specifically for the purpose of building an eternity service, it will be shut down. Longer term perhaps something could be achieved in slowly building up to larger numbers of servers, but this does not seem such a main-stream service that it would be easy to get this degree of uptake. That is to say this problem is more than designing protocols which would be resilient _if_ they were installed on 10,000 servers around the world; the problem is as much to do with coming up with a plausible plan to deploy those servers. Adam From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Adam Back Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:19:24 +0800 To: eternity@internexus.net Subject: mirroring services, web accounts for ecash Message-ID: <199801130314.DAA00409@server.eternity.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Some meta-level thoughts on the eternity service document availability problem: Many of the problems with designing an eternity service are introduced by trying to build real time accessibility of data (with similar response times for documents to those offered by web servers). The BlackNet model can quite ably provide eternity like services with perhaps 24 hour turn around on documents. Everything is operated by digital dead drop (via say news:alt.anonymous.messages), or mixmaster remailers. This suggests that another approach would be to have two classes of services. Users of high risk documents can put up with 24 hour turn around, and lower risk documents can be served by an alternate service, intermediate risk documents can exist by using low risk resources until detection. The low risk document service could be just an automated mirroring service, and could for example explicitly state that illegal materials in server localities will be removed on the server operator becoming aware of this fact, or perhaps on receipt of court notification. This presents the kind of "we aim to discourage illegal materials" persona that commercial ISPs like to present to the police and spooks. It might also be useful to partially automate the differences in types of material which can be hosted in various jurisdictions. Scandinavian countries might be used for pornography in the 14 - 21 year old range; other jurisdictions useful for copyright music materials, where music royalties are collected by a blank media tax; the US might be useful for publication of materials critical of Islamic beliefs, and so on, in each case the materials being strictly legal in the server locality. The mirroring service could be offered by mirror site operators as a public service for locally controversial materials, or services could be charged for to improve long term availability. If the mirroring service is automated, it is likely that materials will slip through the gaps in the system (especially if it is designed with this property in mind), much like warez used to be traded in funny named directories on badly configured ftp servers, or world read and writeable ftp incoming directories. The operator says "darn warez pirates" and removes the offending warez when he is notified. But it might stay up for a few weeks, and URLs spread quickly, and there are lots of open access sites. Another less controversial "host" service which warez pirates might be likely to get away with abusing would be simple web space available for ecash. Lance Cottrell already offers this such anonymous web accounts. If many ISPs start offering this kind of service, the pirates will be more easily able to keep going by hopping from account to account, as accounts are closed for breach of policy, in a similar way that spammers treat accounts as disposable. A TAZ server could even offer a persistent virtual URL to a migrating warez file collection located either on mirroring sites, or on anonymous ecash paid web accounts. (TAZ servers just offer a layer of indirection, see Ian Goldberg and Dave Wagner's paper: http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~daw/cs268/ ) Adam From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 13:17:11 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: Talk of Banning Research into Human Cloning In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801130510.GAA26649@basement.replay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Mon, 12 Jan 1998, Tim May wrote: [...] > Clinton is asking Congress to ban research into human cloning. [...] > No, Clinton is asking for Congress to *ban* such research, regardless of > where the funding came from. "Clone a cell, go to jail." [...] > Though I'm not a constitutional expert, this would seem to me to be a > violation of various rights. A First Amendment right to speak and publish > as one wishes for one, a Fourth Amendment right against search and seizure Actually, not at all. There is no ban on publishing information on cloning, "just" a ban on the activity. Hence the first amendment is not implicated. If it were the case the every action (as opposed to speech/publication) were protected by the 1st Am. then every statute making robbery a crime would be unconstitutional too. Similarly, the 4th Am. is not implicated. The right to be secure against UNREASONABLE search and seizure is not violated when and if congress passes a law defining a new crime, or you are arrested for committing it. > and to be secure in one's papers, and probably more general rights that > have long-held that government agents cannot tell people what books they again, note that the ban is on CLONING, not THINKING OR WRITING OR READING about cloning. It's not the same thing. > may read, what thinking they may do, and whom they may asssociate with (if > the Civil Rights Act is viewed as the unconstitutional anomaly it is). This is an aside, but the CRA is in no way anomalous given the 13th, 14th and 15th Amendments. It is only "anomalous" if one sticks to the Constitution as written in the 18th century... and ignores the articles written in that same century that clearly contemplate amendments.... [...] > > But a ban on cloning research would not be a matter of "national security," > only of ethics and religious beliefs. Whatever the arguments for banning > unapproved research into CBW and nuclear weapons, banning cloning research > is an entirely different set of issues. > Arguably, many of the legal bans in force today are due to ethics, e.g.: * bans on suicide * bans on plural marriage * bans on certain abortions * bans on ingestion of some substances The courts in their infinite wisdom have not found these to be unconstitutional laws. > Any implications for crypto? If Congress can successfully make certain > types of science illegal, felonizing the search for truth, why not a ban on Again, this misunderstands somewhat: the ban is on EXPERIMENTS (which are indeed part of the search for truth), but not writing, reading thinking > certain types of mathematics research? Not directly, IMHO. A. Michael Froomkin +1 (305) 284-4285; +1 (305) 284-6506 (fax) Associate Professor of Law U. Miami School of Law froomkin@law.miami.edu P.O. Box 248087 http://www.law.miami.edu/~froomkin/ Coral Gables, FL 33124 USA It's warm here. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Ryan Lackey Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 20:50:17 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: (eternity) autonomous agents In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801131244.HAA22857@the-great-machine.mit.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Ross Anderson: > Adam Back: > > > If the participant in the CPU resource market is not expected to be > > able to vet all source code he runs, this gives the would be eternity > > operator a chance to distribute his risk. > > It's even better than this - your PC becomes a common carrier and you > are no longer liable :-) You would be expected to comply with efforts to stamp out illegal activities. Laws may be passed (e.g. CDA) which would require technical measures to prevent illegal activity even if you are a common carrier. Legal protection is fundamentally weak if the government does not like you. Worst case, a government or other criminal organization could employ technical twrrorist tactics to take out the entire eternity network, if possible, even if no illegal activity is taking place. I agree that building a sufficiently large "eternity network" such that the 1% or so of traffic which is illegal is impossible to censor without affecting the other 99%. I believe the web or the internet as a whole are now large and important enough to Joe Sixpack that shutting them off to stop illegal activity is infeasible -- I do not agree that USENET is. I think 2 weeks of press in the US about "USENET, the network used by kiddie porn photographers to trade photos, must be shut down" would be enough to shut usenet in the US down. > Tim May: > > > Another science fiction writer, Bruce Sterling, popularized "data havens" > > data service would need some way of resisting pressure from the EU and > the US government. Most of the tax havens do this by being under a > colonial umbrella. Is there an alternative? Can we create virtual > colonies in cyberspace? Can we set up a gateway to Eternity in some > country like Liberia or Somalia, which is too dangerous even for the > US Marines? Or do we have to cut a deal with Sir Humphrey? I believe that the US+UK together could shut off nearly all communications into or out of Libya or Somalia or Liberia or any other small country. They already put a fair amount of pressure on the Seychelles (my current pick for favorite portential datahaven country outside of colonial reach), and money laundering can survive with less of an established communications infrastructure than high speed internet communications, at least from what I know of money laundering. A "datahaven country" would have to be immune to such tactics -- either having its own strong military (China as datahaven) to defend its national interests, political connections (Israel?), or enough trade with the US that shutting off data commo would be impossible for economic reasons (Singapore?). If it comes to actual violence in meatspace, I don't think there's anything a major power couldn't do to a small cypherpunk project. One approach would be quickly allying with interests capable of defending themselves against such threats -- organized crime, money laundering, arms trading, etc. -- but even they for the most part could not stand up to a concerted attack by a government -- they exist through secrecy and connections. > > Given the rate at which spam is growing these days, maybe that's where > to put it. If the only way for Authority to cut mortals off from > Eternity was to pass effective laws against spam, and the only way to > stop spam was to have a global non-escrowed public key infrastructure > so that all mortals could be strongly authenticated, then ... My bet is on the web. Billing "Eternity DDS" as a sophisticated fault tolerant web server, which has market-based protocols for exchanging data futures. And also designing the protocol to support "financial services" conducted through eternity dds futures trading. Get enough kosher data into it and you can protect yourself from TA, from wholesale shutting down of the system, etc. The same techniques which protect you from a government shutting down the service protect you from an enemy of someone storing data in the system shutting down the system. The single best thing I've seen recently was Ross Anderson's comment about 90% of cypherpunks work being on secrecy/etc. and 90% of the commercial IT money going to fault tolerance. I believe, at least for an eternity service, one provides the other, and that's how it can be "sold" to enough users to make it safe for unpopular users. (Steganographic File System sounds very interesting -- will the paper be available online?) - -- Ryan Lackey rdl@mit.edu http://mit.edu/rdl/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBNLthpawefxtEUY69AQHtdQgAkzJx1Hp6LR2mBRuiRnH4QGl+OfHGL0mS 2PfzZCT31dE2ZrrbR/VEHVQEHWsP+eI0aOemVUsiFYMMyEjLtor12Fp+tWndJd++ bAVBpcpdj7liq2wYvyvTwEuJ/PeyHahHgh7rYLY3HNMzWVyjtZHg4hwRIFRPg4ic FIkc+a+obCmBnjYTUKb8mjkmZGdNKe107+l7J3k0wPvEE1GE5cKmxEOd2xmfzt/r L0VbRR/6SxDQ3Kp/dEbEVcEBAdUuyLykQnkWHqR9q8mO5dT8Uq/SmyKtWyVYAKir X8m6hDAzvXbMAKKU3N3GC4pGRO8LsCUTdqhi1/HGAQ+4sJW5ar05Pg== =ANh3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Rabid Wombat Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 12:11:48 +0800 To: Jim Choate Subject: Re: 1 Question to Dr. Froomkin... In-Reply-To: <199801131845.MAA28160@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Hmmm ... this could turn out to be more interesting than the gun nutz threads ... On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, Jim Choate wrote: > Sir, > > Do you accept that the Constitution of the United States of America is the > supreme law of the land and therefore the ultimate legal authority within > its borders? > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > | | > | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | > | violent revolution inevitable. | > | | > | John F. Kennedy | > | | > | | > | _____ The Armadillo Group | > | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | > | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | > | .', |||| `/( e\ | > | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | > | ravage@ssz.com | > | 512-451-7087 | > |____________________________________________________________________| > > From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 22:34:53 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Census Director quits [CNN] Message-ID: <199801131500.JAA27056@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > By RANDOLPH E. SCHMID > Associated Press Writer > > WASHINGTON (AP) -- Census Director Martha Farnsworth Riche, who > battled Republican lawmakers over counting methods for 2000, is > quitting. > > Riche said Monday she would leave office Jan. 30. > > She has been involved in a lengthy dispute with members of Congress > over Census 2000, largely over how to count the many people who might > be missed by regular methods. > > The fight focused on a practice called sampling, in which the bureau > would determine the number and characteristics of people it cannot > reach based on the people it can. > > Though the practice was endorsed by the National Science Foundation > and statistical groups, Republicans in Congress have opposed it, > concerned that the result would be more people counted in largely > Democratic large cities. > > The results will be used to redistribute House seats to the states. [text deleted] ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 22:35:48 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: 19 European countries ban human cloning [CNN] Message-ID: <199801131501.JAA27115@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > 19 EUROPEAN NATIONS SIGN BAN ON HUMAN CLONING > > Britain, Germany not among signatories > > January 12, 1998 > Web posted at: 8:00 p.m. EST (0100 GMT) > > PARIS (CNN) -- Nineteen European nations on Monday signed an > agreement to prohibit the cloning of humans. > > Representatives from 19 members of the Council of Europe signed a > protocol that would commit their countries to ban by law "any > intervention seeking to create human beings genetically identical to > another human being, whether living or dead." It rules out any > exception to the ban, even in the case of a completely sterile > couple. > > "At a time when occasional voices are being raised to assert the > acceptability of human cloning and even to put it more rapidly into > practice, it is important for Europe solemnly to declare its > determination to defend human dignity against the abuse of > scientific techniques," Council Secretary-General Daniel Tarchys > said. > > The text, which is to become a part of the European Convention on > Human Rights and Biomedicine, would permit cloning of cells for > research purposes.CNN's Margaret Lowrie reports > icon 2 min. 3 sec VXtreme video > > The accord will become binding on the signatories as soon as it has > been ratified in five states. > > Countries signing are: Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Greece, > Iceland, Italy, Latvia, Luxembourg, Moldova, Norway, Portugal, > Romania, San Marino, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Macedonia and Turkey. [text deleted] ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: bill.stewart@pobox.com Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 09:48:25 +0800 To: Ross Anderson Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980113090634.00855c40@popd.ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >Ryan Lackey: >> A "datahaven country" would have >> to be immune to such tactics -- either having its own strong military >> (China as datahaven) to defend its national interests, political >> connections (Israel?), or enough trade with the US that shutting off >> data commo would be impossible for economic reasons (Singapore?). China _is_ currently a data haven, and the US trade talks have been focussed on getting them to stop it. It's not using the Internet, just CDROMs and snailmail, but it's a huge market... At 03:16 PM 1/13/98 +0000, Ross Anderson wrote: >A virtual datahaven could be constructed eaily provided you knew how to >index controversial matter. >Publish the rude things about the Prophet Mohammed on a server in Israel, >the anti-Serb rants in Croatia, the kiddyporn in Sweden, the violence in >America, the Nazi hate speech in Syria and the anti-scientology stuff in >Germany. But to do that you've got to know what's on your server, and data havens strongly depend on deniability and scalability, so you don't sell those bits on the chips implanted in your head. You could manage your storage in a way that lets users specify where they _don't_ want a given opaque file to be, so they can keep the anti-Foobarian speech out of Foobar, but if you let them specify where they do want it, it's too easy to plant stuff. Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Robert Hettinga Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 22:27:33 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Micromoney CryptoMango? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain --- begin forwarded text Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 08:52:16 -0500 From: rah-web Reply-To: rah@shipwright.com MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rah-web Subject: Micromoney CryptoMango? http://www.infoworld.com/cgi-bin/displayNew.pl?/metcalfe/metcalfe.htm [Image] [StorageTek Click Here.] [| Navigational map -- for text only please go to the bottom of the page |] [|Opinions|] [From the Ether] January 12, 1998 Mango `pooling' is the biggest idea we've seen since network computers Mango, in Westborough, Mass., is not your average software start-up. In 30 months the company has raised $30 million. Its first product, Medley97, has shipped, transparently "pooling" workgroup storage. And someone at http://www.mango.com really knows the difference between features and benefits. But it's not the benefits of Medley97 pooling that interest me. What's interesting are the features and long-term potential of Mango's underlying distributed virtual memory (DVM). Mango's pooling DVM is the biggest software idea since network computers -- perhaps since client/server -- and Microsoft had better watch out. According to Mango, Medley97 offers transparent networking that's easy to use, fast, and reliable (not to mention secure and high fiber). Windows users working together on a LAN can share files in a pool of their combined disk storage. Every pooled PC is both a client and server. Go ahead and drop Medley97 into any PC you want to pool. Medley97 installs, checks configuration, and updates required Windows networking software. The product adds the PC's storage to the pool, giving you a shared, fast, and reliable network drive, M:/, which is available on all pooled PCs. For this you pay Mango less than $125 each for up to 25 PCs. Mango CEO Steve Frank was technology chief at Kendall Square Research (KSR), the ill-fated parallel processing company near MIT that was not Thinking Machines. Frank says KSR taught him how dishonesty doesn't work but parallelism does. Unlike KSR's, Mango's parallelism just has to be on volume platforms, such as Ethernet, TCP/IP, and Windows. Hence Mango. Underlying Medley97 are DVM processes cooperating through a TCP/IP Ethernet on pooled Windows PCs. The processes manage a 128-bit object space that copies virtual 4KB pages up, down, and around a distributed memory hierarchy. Medley97 offers ease of use by hiding continuously, automatically, and adaptively behind your familiar Windows user interface -- just below the file system APIs and above physical disk pages. Medley97 offers performance by moving files through the Ethernet from disk to disk and from disk to memory, closer to where the pages are used most. And Medley97 offers reliability by keeping synchronized backup copies of file pages on different pooled PCs. Mango's DVM generalizes backup and caching. Pages are copied for nonstop operation. Copies are moved closer to where they are used. Frank says it is often faster to access a page through Ethernet from a pooled PC's semiconductor memory than to access it from a local disk. Transaction logs are kept on all pooled PCs. The DVM detects when a PC drops out of a pool and copies any page that thereby lacks sufficient backups. When a PC rejoins a pool, transaction logs ensure it accesses updated pages. The garbage collection of deleted pages runs in the background. Noticing that Medley97 is available for up to 25 PCs, I asked the perennial parallelism question, "Does it scale?" Frank's answer: Yes. Medley97 is limited to 25 PCs only because that's all Mango has so far found time to test. With each PC adding resources, pool performance is "superlinear" as far as the eye can see. Well, this makes pooling the next in a long list of major computing paradigms: batch mainframes, interactive minicomputers, stand-alone PCs, PC LANs, client/server, peer-to-peer, thin-client, server clustering, and now peer clustering or pooling. According to Frank, Medley next needs to go from Ethernet to Internet. To support many pools. To add change control and archiving. Medley also needs to go beyond Windows. To pool processing as well as storage. So Medley, now written in C++, needs what else? Java. You can log into a Medley pool from anywhere and have your workgroup files available on the M:/ drive. With Java you could pool non-Wintel network computers. Well, if pooling scales, the whole World Wide Web should be one big pool. Mango's DVM generalizes the caching now done ad hoc all over the Web -- on server disks, in clusters, in caching farms, in proxy servers, in browsers, and in the file systems of PCs. Add Java network computers and before Frank knows it, Mango will be ripe for purchase if not integration by Microsoft. ------------------------------ [Image] Technology pundit Bob Metcalfe invented Ethernet in 1973 and founded 3Com in 1979, and today he specializes in the Internet. Send e-mail to Metcalfe@infoworld.com. Missed a column? Go back for more. [Image] ------------------------------ Copyright (c) 1998 InfoWorld Media Group Inc. | SiteMap |Search | PageOne | Conferences | Reader/Ad Services | | Enterprise Careers | Opinions | Test Center | Features | | Forums | Interviews | InfoWorld Print | InfoQuote | [Lion's Den] [InfoWorld Electric Features] [Intel Manageability] --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/ Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: bill.stewart@pobox.com Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 09:49:12 +0800 To: Ryan Lackey Subject: Re: Eternity Services In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980113091745.00856d80@popd.ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain hAt 12:49 AM 1/12/98 EST, Ryan Lackey wrote: >[Tim May wrote:] >> I am surprised, I have to admit, that Ryan is talking so much about raising >> money, getting investors, etc., when no _working model_ of his scheme has >> been deployed for people to play with, find weaknesses in, etc. > >No working model has been deployed by me as of yet. However, most of the >components are "solved problems", with existing working models. Worst case, >it would be possible to accomplish equivalent functionality by linking >these by remailers and hoping no one shuts down the remailers. My guess is that the technical aspects are relatively solvable, at least if the market comes through with reasonable digicash. The technical design can be fun, and lots of pieces exist. The "Don't Quit Your Day Job" (or in this case, school) criteria are harder - doing the business plan that makes a reasonable case that 1 - Service Providers using your model can make money 2 - You personally can make money 3 - Potential investors (including you) can make money funding the development Three obvious business models for you and your investors are 2a - Operate the service yourself, hiring people or renting space in as many countries as you need for safety/reliability 2b - Sell/license the software to commercial providers 2c - Freeware, perhaps with some way for you to get advertising revenue or at least sufficient fame to get consulting business. Which combinations of these options can achieve wide usage depends a lot on your models of users of the system; some of those models are moneymakers, some aren't, some are safe, some are dangerous, and some just attract a sleazy clientele. Here are a few models - public, permanant, non-controversial - the archive business for URLs for academic papers, news services, and possibly for contracts, wills, court documents, etc., which may have some privacy (e.g. an encrypted document showing the owners and keyids) or may not be indexed. This model is easy, and the only reason you need to franchise the business rather than running it yourself is to increase the confidence of the users that the service will be permanent. The obvious financial model is that computers and storage become cheaper every year, so the cost of 100 years of storage is probably only 25-100% higher than 5 years of storage. The costs of retrieval are different from the costs of storage; you may do something like advertising banners to handle frequent-retrieval vs. occasional-retrieval material, or charge directly per hit, etc. - public, permanent, controversial - political manifestos, samizdata, Singaporean chewing-gum recipes, formerly secret documents of governments and businesses. Spreading across multiple jurisdictions is critical here, but governments do cooperate enough that few places are safe for everything. For instance, a Finnish court might order a server to stop publishing copyrighted Scientology documents based on a US court order; anything copyrighted needs to be hosted by non-Berne-convention locations. I don't know how cooperative governments are about libel suits from other jurisdictions; "libel against governments" is clearly a different case from regular personal libel. - non-indexed semi-public medium-term controversial - porn servers, warez, credit reporting services, and the like. By "non-indexed semi-public", I mean things that you can retrieve if you know the name and maybe have a password, but can't retrieve if you don't, and maybe they're encrypted. Some of them may be revenue generators for the storage customer (e.g. they've got advertising banners, or they require digicash to be collected somehow, or maybe there's a password-of-the-month needed to decrypt them, which is sold separately from distribution.) Here you need to worry about attacks, since pictures that are legal in LA or Paris may be illegal in Memphis, Tokyo, or Riyadh, and transaction data that's legal in Anguilla may violate data privacy laws in Berlin or fair credit reporting in Washington, and warez that are gray-market in Beijing may get you jailed in Redmond (while the porn that's legal in Redmond may get you jailed in Beijing.) You also have to worry about targeted attacks - the government that can't stop you from publishing the Anti-Great-Satan Manifesto can go plant child porn and stolen Microsoft warez on your server to get you shut down in your home country. - non-indexed semi-public medium-term non-controversial - encrypted corporate backups and the like. If you've implemented things right, a subpoena for all your files worldwide still won't let anybody find a useful piece of non-indexed data, but can still let anybody with the name and password recover it. Indexing becomes the job of the user; the index for a user is just another data file. This may be where you make the legitimate money, if you can convince enough businesses to use your services, and where you provide the cover traffic for the controversial material. Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Ryan Lackey Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 23:56:18 +0800 To: Thomas Womack Subject: Re: (eternity) autonomous agents In-Reply-To: <01bd2037$68046310$409001a3@mc64.merton.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <199801131551.KAA23584@the-great-machine.mit.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Tom Womack wrote: > Ross Anderson wrote: > > >A virtual datahaven could be constructed eaily provided you knew how to > >index controversial matter. > > > >Publish the rude things about the Prophet Mohammed on a server in Israel, > >the anti-Serb rants in Croatia, the kiddyporn in Sweden, the violence in > >America, the Nazi hate speech in Syria and the anti-scientology stuff in > >Germany. > > I suspect you will still run into things which are illegal anywhere; > national-security stuff can be handled provided you've got a complete list > of pairs of unfriendly nations, but I don't think (eg) the more extreme sort > of kiddyporn is legal *anywhere*. > > Tom > Additionally, you could have the Fahd family annoyed by this stuff in Israel, post the names of all the Mossad agents to the same server, and have the server have an accident. You would need to go beyond "indexing" to "enforcement" if you wanted to make it safe for people to run open datahavens. True, you could still do this regulatory arbitrage thing by having datahaven owners look at the data, see if they can store it, then price it based on how safe it would be for them to store it -- that's the kind of thing a market-based Eternity service would include (as well as people with different levels of risk tolerance being willing to take more dangerous data, ephermeal servers, etc.). A market-based system can overcome just about everything -- it will take into account the regulatory climate, political connections, size of the site, etc. The problem is that if you encrypt everything such that server operators don't know what it is, you're "selling them a bill of goods", so they don't really have the chance to correctly price their data. Plus, they have no way of knowing even if the data is unencrypted that your list of the sins of the prophet do not include a steganographically-encoded list of Mossad agents. You can't assume people in the system will "play fairly" unless there are market reasons for them to do so. Perhaps persistent identities for those committing files? Basically, in the age old contest between arms and armor, arms win every time. BTW, I don't really like the overly negative names for Eternity, like "inferno", or whatever. I like to think my data is *good* data, deserving of a better fate. Elysium, perhaps? Or just use "eternity" in place of "eternityspace" (a word I never should have used, since it means the same thing), as in "upload these files to eternity", "the collection of files currently stored in eternity", etc. Little danger of confusion with pedestrian meanings of the word eternity, too, I think, and there is no real reason to draw a distinction between eternity the location for documents and eternity the overall system for creating such a space. - -- Ryan Lackey rdl@mit.edu http://mit.edu/rdl/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBNLuNb6wefxtEUY69AQE/Xgf8C/y82HnErTwi5UniP6oIW/4nVnlxfGyM BJZeKPb7vwK8AOdzynI+6Mj5Acrr/Ojlo9OiaBzBavVAPqvA9VcEeKeB45erhQEQ SxXwKDQL2/EBxlIM/pJkmUuggg3/7HJ1UugO6qtKIq2cKgsdLZhqKlyWpxVSdEwa JN4eC3cz3iFeUUZmeDG0Rpk4YWcXDmeKP31l0EfU6SQ2uIiOAmlX7PLdRh6rgTIW 4GbyYZRPEuQRUJ3RAqIRFExMgEXvZ1CsYsvrolJCDxcF5sluZpOCM8WolGhwpCBj HI4Zl1QofMEOojoLhEZ4jV4/uTf9VrKisYSeEEGBewnm3DOAuu1PyA== =AvF+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 03:09:53 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Re: Talk of Banning Research into Human Cloning (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801130612.AAA25763@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 8:02 AM -0800 1/13/98, Michael Froomkin (as Anonymous) wrote: >> > There is no ban on publishing information on cloning, "just" a ban on the >> > activity. >> >> Spin doctor bullshit. Without the research there isn't anything to publish. >> By banning the basic research we would in fact be banning the publishing of >> the results of that scientific research. > >This is a more significant difference than you let on: if the research is >done abroad, it can be published here. To the extent that one can >theorize without experimenting, that too can be done here. I don't believe we know yet what the proposal is. I've heard some versions which allow any and all research up to, but not including, the actual production of a viable human clone. And I've heard versions being proposed which would push the ban further back down the line. As I have made clear, I don't believe "banning research" which is neither "commerce between the states" nor a direct harm to others (as the "robbery" example Michael Froomkin used earlier as a parallel is), is supported by the Constitution. Just as I don't believe "banning activity X" is generally supported unless there is some constitutional mention. To pick some examples, banning research into UFOs would not be supported. Banning jumping on pogo sticks would not be supported. Banning possession of wool sweaters would not be supported. (I could go on, but won't. There are degrees of what "unconstitutional" means. I take a civil libertarian, even libertarian (of course), view about what is an acceptable role for government and law. We have debated this many times, and I have no time to debate Michael again on this issue. Suffice it to say I think it completely inappropriate, and "unconstitutional," for government to ban research.) >Congress has the power to choose whether to ban acts when the cause a harm >(fists that connect to federal noses), or just to ban acts whether or not >they cause harms (sending threats to government officials; broadcasting >without a license on an unused frequency). Like it or not, there is no >question that most of these bans -- including the cloning ban -- are >constitutional under the commerce and other powers, the copyrights clause >notwithstanding. This broad use of the commerce clause could of course be applied to ban almost any activity. I don't think the Founders had this in mind, but, again, I have a civil libertarian view of such things. If the commerce clause is claimed to apply to cloning--how, by the way?--then it can apply to mathematical research, linguistics research, and just about every other kind of research. And if the cloning ban is a ban on research in certain areas, as many are pushing for (but, again, the final laws have not been proposed, much less passed, so we'll have to wait), then is this not prior restraint on publishing? (BTW, most of the "effort" toward human cloning will be the 99.5% of the research, publication, discussion, etc. leading up to the final implantation. If the ban is to have any meaning, it must hit this 99.5%, just as the end of Federal funding has targetted this 99.5%. To wait until the final act is too late, as that can then be done in a foreign lab...or in any number of U.S. labs which the Clone Police will of course be unable to monitor!) >PS. I killfiled this guy ages ago on the grounds of rudeness, general >unpleasantness, and especially a complete and utter incomprehension about >how the law in this country operates. It is as if someone once read some >software company's publicity about how easy it is to operate their >software and concluded they should therefore be able to write programs in >any language. Yeah, I've gone back to killfiling him, too. Too many rants, too many forwardings of online news articles, and, as you say, a peculiarly literalist interpretation of the Constitution. (I also have somewhat of a literalist interpretation, but hopefully a more justified one.) >Since someone forwarded me this post, I'm replying to it, but I doubt I'll >bother doing so in the future. I entered this thread because Tim May made >some comments; I respect his writing and I think other people probably do >too. As a result, it seemed important to offer some basic doctrine as a >response. Note, again, that I'm not expressing a view on the MERITS of >the legislation, just one law professor's view on whether courts would be >likely to uphold it if it passes. I think Michael Froomkin has far too expansive a view of the powers granted government in the Constitution. The frequent citing of the commerce clause and "other powers" can be used to argue that government has the power to regulate just about everything, to tell people what kind of clothing they can wear (they might cross state lines), to limit access to research (commerce again), to tell them whom they must hire and whom they may not hire (Civil Rights Act), and so on. At least most proponents of draconian new laws restricting crypto, for example, adopt the fig leaf of talking about "compelling national interests" and suchlike. They don't simply cite the commerce clause as the basis for restricting crypto. (Even flakier arguments, in my view, are ones based on nebulous "public welfare" arguments. These can be used to ban nearly anything, from the eating of meat to the location of casinos to the licensing of broadcasters....a recipe for a total state.) It'll be interesting to see if the ACLU steps into the "ban on cloning," especially any possible (and likely, I think) "ban on cloning research" laws. If they accept Prof. Froomkin's argument that such a ban is ipso facto constitutional, I'd be surprised. And, like Froomkin, I'm not arguing for the merits or demerits of human cloning research (though I believe it's already unstoppable, and any ban will simply move it into the "bootleg research" area, which tickles my crypto anarchist interests anyway!). And I hope the ACLU would not argue on the basis of merits or not of such research. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: ? the Platypus {aka David Formosa} Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 10:09:11 +0800 To: David Honig Subject: Re: [Humor] Kennedy's New Legislation In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980111002305.007ca5f0@otc.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On Sun, 11 Jan 1998, David Honig wrote: [...] > At 01:28 AM 1/11/98 +1100, ? the Platypus {aka David Formosa} wrote: > > If you have a population of unchanging clones (your typical 'master > > race') you don't get any evoltion or improvement. > > > > A population *must* undergo variation in its > heriditary units since > 1. there's always errors in copying the code > 2. equivalently, you can't drive the error rate > of a channel down to 0, just arbitrarily close. This is true, of cause if you have a population like this that will most likely get killed off by the next pathogen. - -- Please excuse my spelling as I suffer from agraphia see the url in my header. Never trust a country with more peaple then sheep. ex-net.scum and proud You Say To People "Throw Off Your Chains" And They Make New Chains For Themselves? --Terry Pratchett. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBNLqxNqQK0ynCmdStAQGaXAQA2THcmQ62FS4qIfH/zhmADK58zR+uaaVG B+pyTIB5hHiybxE9hW9jTWrzQIDsWQQ9gAh9ScOVM0xYJwCoU2gPwLNa16Yl7+2L z7dkLoA2bt4wfDVLNxN8lDafxzWOW5Yzw4BYB3CR6/milnZaVqXhnumTblwZ0zKe fXzYKFE0VYU= =GLu8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 00:45:21 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: Talk of Banning Research into Human Cloning (fwd) Message-ID: <199801131712.LAA27579@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 17:02:13 +0100 (MET) > Subject: Re: Talk of Banning Research into Human Cloning (fwd) > From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) > > > Spin doctor bullshit. Without the research there isn't anything to publish. > > By banning the basic research we would in fact be banning the publishing of > > the results of that scientific research. > > This is a more significant difference than you let on: if the research is > done abroad, it can be published here. To the extent that one can > theorize without experimenting, that too can be done here. I hope they forward the CNN piece on the European ban on cloning that is occuring as I type this. The bottem line is that saying it's ok to ban it here simply because you are sure somebody somewhere else will allow it is reprehensible and a complete abrogation of both the spirit and the letter of the Constitution. If it's ok to do it there, why isn't it ok to do it here? Smacks of a double standard or some sort of surreptitious conspiracy to control the technology to the benefit of a few. Perhaps the government has already done this research, at Seed's estimate of $100,000 per clone, god knows they already have the money, the equipment, and the people willing to do it. Tell me, once the other countries have banned it will you then argue that we should repeal our own ban and allow such research? > > Not at all. Equating swinging of ones fist in a empty field and swinging it > > into somebodies nose and then taking that supposition as justification to > > ban fist swinging *is* most certainly unconstitutional. Furthermore, robbery > > Congress has the power to choose whether to ban acts when the cause a harm > (fists that connect to federal noses), or just to ban acts whether or not > they cause harms (sending threats to government officials; broadcasting > without a license on an unused frequency). Bans on broadcasting without a license on an unused frequency was found unconstitutional - it seems nobody had *ever* raised the issue before. The interstate commerce clause was also raised and found to be potentialy irrelevant. Until a few years ago the threatening of anyone, even the killing of a president, was not a federal crime. Perhaps that original idea was that since we believe all people to be equal under the law the killing of a bum was no more heinous than killing of a president. One could even argue that such classifying laws as the protection of federal employees over and above a commen citizen are in fact against the equal treatment under the law for all citizens that this country is founded upon. > Like it or not, there is no > question that most of these bans -- including the cloning ban -- are > constitutional under the commerce and other powers, the copyrights clause > notwithstanding. It's 'interstate commerce', and it isn't the copyright clause per se but the clear and plain language regarding 'advancement'. Further the clause *specificaly* states that it is between states - by no stretch of the honest imagination can be be construed to include private functions inside the state boundary. Next you will be telling me I need a federal license to program because somebody might use my software ... Taking away peoples rights and choices is much ruder than anything you could claim I have ever been. Why not answer the points instead of crying about how I hurt your feelings because I won't play within the limited set of rules you want so that you can retain the advantages of that limited set and as a consequence not have to deal with the possible reality that your entire suppositional set is bogus. > unpleasantness, and especially a complete and utter incomprehension about > how the law in this country operates. I know how it operates, that is why it pisses me off. It operates under the authority of a document that prescribes in clear language how that system is supposed to operate and specificaly describes what those limits are, how to apply those limits to new events, and how to change those limits if they should be felt to be too restrictive or damaging. However, those who are entrusted with the operation believe that that self-same trust allows them to ignore their empowering charter. You seem unable to comprehend that perhaps the logic that has been used to justify many of these actions is not only unconstitutional but also in the long term detriment of the country. It's a pitty you're so close minded you are unable to expose your delicate sensibilities to open debate. It's a pity that your only defence is ad hominim attacks and concious exclusion of contrary arguments because of their emotional impact on yourself. Sir, the only thing I have left to say to you is: Yet, it moves. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 00:55:23 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: 1st sign of a closed mind... Message-ID: <199801131723.LAA27648@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text "I won't listen to that because ...." ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 01:06:07 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: What it means to be in America... Message-ID: <199801131731.LAA27730@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text America's abundance was created not by public sacrifices to "the common good," but by the productive genius of free men who pursued their own personal interests and the making of their own private fortunes. They did not starve the people to pay for America's industrialization. They gave the people better jobs, higher wages, and cheaper goods with every new machine they invented, with every scientific discovery or technological advance- and thus the whole country was moving forward and profiting, not suffering, every step of the way. - Ayn Rand In the United States the majority undertakes to supply a multitude of ready-made opinions for the use of individuals, who are thus relieved from the necessity of forming opinions of their own. - Alexis de Tocqueville ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 01:06:07 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: What is the Constitution? Message-ID: <199801131732.LAA27764@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Today, when a concerted effort is made to obliterate this point, it cannot be repeated too often that the Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals- that it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government- that it is not a charter _for_ government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection _against_ the government. - Ayn Rand ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Ross Anderson Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 19:45:45 +0800 To: eternity@internexus.net Subject: (eternity) autonomous agents Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Adam Back: > If the participant in the CPU resource market is not expected to be > able to vet all source code he runs, this gives the would be eternity > operator a chance to distribute his risk. It's even better than this - your PC becomes a common carrier and you are no longer liable :-) If this doesn't happen, then the advocates of Java need a whole new security infrastructure to assure users that the applets they download aren't defamatory, pornographic, seditious or in breach of copyright! Tim May: > Another science fiction writer, Bruce Sterling, popularized "data havens" At one time, Malta was thinking seriously about becoming just such a data haven, and I expect one will appear sooner or later. After all, what's left of the British Empire is funded by money laundering and tax evasion - pardon me, Sir Humphrey, `offshore financial services'. Once the online world becomes a significant part of the global economy, small countries that wish to achieve the high living standards of Bermuda, Gibraltar and Jersey will be able to get there by cashing in on `offshore data services'. Countries like Tonga already sell domain names, but a full offshore data service would need some way of resisting pressure from the EU and the US government. Most of the tax havens do this by being under a colonial umbrella. Is there an alternative? Can we create virtual colonies in cyberspace? Can we set up a gateway to Eternity in some country like Liberia or Somalia, which is too dangerous even for the US Marines? Or do we have to cut a deal with Sir Humphrey? Hiding stuff inside usenet is actually a bit like hiding behind the skirts of Empire, isn't it? The same goes for hiding stuff on open access web sites, or in spam. Given the rate at which spam is growing these days, maybe that's where to put it. If the only way for Authority to cut mortals off from Eternity was to pass effective laws against spam, and the only way to stop spam was to have a global non-escrowed public key infrastructure so that all mortals could be strongly authenticated, then ... Ross From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 01:21:30 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Fed's train more technology workers? [CNN] Message-ID: <199801131743.LAA27853@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > By MICHELLE LOCKE > Associated Press Writer > > BERKELEY, Calif. (AP) -- America needs more computer workers -- a lot > more. > > That was the message from three Cabinet officials who unveiled > strategies Monday for finding more technology-literate workers as the > U.S. economy enters the information age. > > Their proposals ranged from spending more on education and training > grants to putting out a new message: It's hip to be high-tech. > > "American minds really created the information age economy and > American minds can continue to lead it if we nurture the immense > talent pool here at home," said Education Secretary Richard Riley. > > Or as Deputy Labor Secretary Kathryn O'Leary Higgins said with a > smile, "We're from the federal government and we're here to help." [text deleted] ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 01:16:53 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: FTC ok's Intel buy of C&T [CNN] Message-ID: <199801131744.LAA27925@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > January 13, 1998: 10:56 a.m. ET > > NEW YORK (CNNfn) - The U.S. Federal Trade Commission said Tuesday it > would no longer try to hold up Intel Corp.'s $420 million acquisition > of Chips and Technologies Inc. > [INLINE] The FTC did say, however, that it would continue to > investigate the merger as part of its more extensive look into Intel's > operations. Earlier, the FTC had sought a preliminary injunction to > halt the merger. > [INLINE] The FTC was apparently concerned that Intel would gain an > even larger market share of the chip market with the acquisition of > Chips and Technologies, a leading laptop computer semiconductor firm. > [INLINE] The FTC has been eyeing Intel carefully because it believes > that Intel's strong chip business, estimated to control more than 80 > percent of the world's market, could raise antitrust concerns. [text deleted] ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 02:19:42 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: 1 Question to Dr. Froomkin... Message-ID: <199801131845.MAA28160@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Sir, Do you accept that the Constitution of the United States of America is the supreme law of the land and therefore the ultimate legal authority within its borders? ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 20:04:13 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: [ADMINISTRATIVIUM] Firewalls Message-ID: <199801131153.MAA07441@basement.replay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Timmy C. Mayonnaise's reheated, refurbished, and regurgitated cud is completely inappropriate for the mailing lists into which it is cross-ruminated. ,,, -ooO(o o)Ooo- Timmy C. Mayonnaise (_) From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 05:25:49 +0800 To: Adam Shostack Subject: Re: mirroring services, web accounts for ecash In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 7:47 AM -0800 1/13/98, Adam Shostack wrote: > I think that a Silk Road system, where most of the money flows >between neighbors, might be a useful model. Its also worth A flaw here is that the Real Silk Road (tm) had merchants up and down the line knowing the value of what they were buying, the rugs, silks, spices, gold, etc. Extending this to a long series of "encrypted" items is much more problematic. If the "final buyer" in "Damascus" ends up with a worthless item, does he blame the seller in "Kabul" or the seller in "Tashkent" or the seller all the way back the line? I don't see a "Silk Road" chain as being any improvement over the direct broadcast offer of a conventional Blacknet system. >considering getting the US Government to build and operate most of >Blacknet for us as a base for sting operations, much the way Arizona >State police distributed $7m marijuana to get $3m in seizures. Lots >of people got to smoke, courtesy of Uncle Sam. Even less likely. (Though I did hear of some interest by the DoD in what Blacknet could mean for their ability to keep secrets.) And with full untraceability, it would hardly work for "stings." Unless they could cause participants to trip themselves up and make mistakes, revealing their true names. Unlikely after the first few publicized mistakes. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 02:55:06 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: An offer to Dr. Froomkin... Message-ID: <199801131920.NAA28285@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Sir, I can understand your emotional reaction to some of my wording, it is its specific intent to ellicit such a reaction. It's a measure of the readers maturity to be able to ignore the noise and focus on the issues. However, in this particular case this seems to be working in the negative respecting my goals. So, in order to open channels of dicussion I would like to make an offer. I will desist on the use of these psychological warfare techniques and their destabalizing effects on your emotional state *if* you will return to an open discussion without resort to ad hominim and straw man arguments and address the issues directly and in plain language without resort to legalistic verbal camouflage to skirt the main points. Thank you for your time in considering this offer. Sincerely, ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: William Knowles Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 05:32:28 +0800 To: Adam Shostack Subject: Re: (eternity) autonomous agents In-Reply-To: <199801132039.PAA14695@homeport.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, Adam Shostack wrote: > Thomas Womack wrote: > > | of pairs of unfriendly nations, but I don't think (eg) the more > | extreme sort of kiddyporn is legal *anywhere*. > > Somalia? Go places where the government is either non-existant or > otherwise pre-occupied, and pay to drop IP in. The locals get > communication infrastructure as long as they leave you alone, but if > the linux box that has the web server goes down, so do the phone > lines. Well as far as countries that have governments that don't really exist there is always Liberia, But I personally would like my own militia included with their business development package. If I remember Black Unicorn's posts some months back about the Seychelles, The Rene government will protect you from extradition from any country with their military for what? $6 million? Anguilla seems to be a doing agood job on becoming a country willing on hosting data havens. And there are likely under a hundred oil companies looking for firms to 'recycle' their old oil platforms and drilling rigs wasting away around the world, I'm sure some might just give you one just to be rid of future liability. Cheers! William Knowles erehwon@dis.org == The information standard is more draconian than the gold standard, because the government has lost control of the marketplace. -- Walter Wriston == http://www.dis.org/erehwon/ From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Information Security Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 03:53:42 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: Schneier's metrocard cracked Message-ID: <199801131927.OAA21746@panix2.panix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > From schneier@visi.com Mon Jan 12 18:21:01 1998 > Subject: Re: Schneier's metrocard cracked > In-Reply-To: <199801122150.NAA11668@comsec.com> from Information Security at "Jan 8, 98 11:40:23 pm" > To: guy@panix.com > Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 17:19:22 -0600 (CST) > Cc: cp-lite@comsec.com > > Information Security wrote: > > Dr. Dim wrote: > > > > > > I heard on the radio that the security scheme used in New York City metrocards > > > (designed with much input frm Bruce Schneier) has been cracked and that the > > > "hackers" can now add fare to the cards. > > > > > > Does anyone know any details? What encryption did Schneier use? > > > > It sounds like a procedural thing. > > > > Something like there was a way to swipe cards and have the > > system wrongly think it updated the card. > > > > The city announced that every cardreader in the system > > is going to be recalibrated, and this will cause problems > > for "a few" existing cardholders. > > That's not my design. Counterpane consulted on the next generation > cards, not the current mag stripe cards in the NY system. The > protocols we developed are not currently being used in any fielded > system. > > Bruce A subsequent news report said hackers were taking discarded (single-use?) MetroCards and "reprogramming" them so they would work again. However, the description didn't sound like it was really hacking... The MTA said only 6 fraudulent uses of this was happening per day, and 40 of these total per day. "Of these"? The MTA said there was some limited tolerance for nicked or scratched cards, and in this situation - where the software guessed that it was a scratched card - that it was programmed to be "lenient" and let them in. The news report showed the MTA's new recommendation for carrying MetroCards: sliding them into a protective container for travel. The mag-strip cards suck. ---guy From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: William Knowles Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 06:47:10 +0800 To: DC-Stuff Subject: Privacy & Anonymous service providers? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I'm working on a web page that would include a list of Internet providers that either offer anonymous accounts or a better degree of privacy not usually seen by regular ISP's. Below is a list of providers that offers these services that I have been able to put together, I'm wondering if there are some that I am missing. To avoid noise on the list and I'm no longer a member of the cypherpunks list, please e-mail me privately. Paranoia http://wwww.paranoia.com Data Haven Project http://www.datahaven.com L0pht Heavy Industries http://www.l0pht.com Offshore Information Services http://www.offshore.ai Cyberpass http://www.cyberpass.net SkuzNet http://skuz.wanweb.net LOD Communications http://www.lod.com The Nymserver http://www.nymserver.com Sekurity.org http://www.sekurity.org Hotmail http://www.hotmail.com Thanks in advance! William Knowles erehwon@dis.org == The information standard is more draconian than the gold standard, because the government has lost control of the marketplace. -- Walter Wriston == http://www.dis.org/erehwon/ From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 06:47:31 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: And Justice For All In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Someone sent me this article, saying it sounded a bit like me. I agree. Interesting to hear this guy calling for justice to be given to some government criminals. --Tim May At 2:24 PM -0800 1/13/98, xxxxx wrote: >This guy sounds a little like you when you're in your best form. > >xxxxx > >>From September 1997 issue of Media Bypass - Found at >http://www.4bypass.com/stories/line2.html > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > >A Return to Accountability > > By "The Guardian" > > > > In 1994, there was the so-called "Republican Revolution." Supposedly, >we finally got a > bunch of "good" politicians into office to fix things. Fat lot of good >that did us. The > American people were stabbed in the back by these so called "good" >politicians. They > gave us more gun-free school zones, after the Supreme Court said that >Congress does not > have that authority; they gave us a National ID card law; they gave us >the biggest seizure > of guns in our history through the domestic violence restrictions on >owning guns; they gave > us lots of "health care crimes" that are punishable by asset >forfeiture- by both the doctor > and the patient; they gave us several new national databases that will >track very personal > information on virtually every American; and they gave us the specter >of secret trials with > secret evidence for "certain" classes of people. > > Voting is a time honored practice that allegedly allows the people to >direct the course of > the government by choosing the leaders and focusing on the issues of >importance. The > problem is that as a check on the government's runaway growth and >abuses, it doesn't > work. James Collier wrote the book "VoteScam" to point out the massive >voting fraud > that is endemic to the American electoral process. Look at the current >scandals > surrounding the campaign finance issues. Where does the will of the >people enter into this > process? The answer is that it doesn't. > > So, shall we kick the issue of reforming government over to the >Courts? What a joke. > The courts decide issues as they wish, based not upon law, but upon an >ever changing > concept called "Public Policy." If they get a tough issue, they say >it's a "political question" > and refuse to hear it. The right arguments can be made, but are then >rejected as being > "frivolous" or "irrelevant." Critical issues are rarely decided on the >merits; rather, they ride > on the crutches of manipulated "precedent." > > Let the judges who have sworn an oath of office and posted their bond >as required by > law come forward. The oath of office provided a contract with the >people which in the > event of breach, provided the grounds to bring suit. The bond was >forfeit if the judge > misbehaved. Yet these judges refuse to hold themselves to the law and >obey. The Citizen > who demands that the judge present a copy of his oath of office and a >copy of his bond is > ignored. Today, the citizen who tries to bring suit against a judge or >prosecutor for > misconduct is sidelined by another judge- who is often as or more >guilty than the one being > sued. The question is asked "Where is the justice?" There is none in >this system. > > So what are the options that are left? Should people attempt to drop >out of the system > and ask to simply be left alone? They might end up like the people at >Waco who were > killed over an alleged tax deficiency- the non-payment of the transfer >tax on several > weapons. And all of that was simply alleged. There was no court of Law >to hear their > case, and make a finding of guilt or innocence. They were murdered by >a federal > government that will not bring the murderers to justice. Some say that >the Davidians were > murdered as part of an experiment to find out what the American public >was willing to > tolerate. The Constitution came under serious attack, and the American >people cheered as > the government tanks smashed the building, pumped in poison gas, and >then burned and > machine gunned the inhabitants of a separatist religious sect. Don't >believe it? Go see the > movie "Waco: Rules of Engagement." Watch your government caught in the >lie. See the > worms wiggle and squirm. > > What about Randy Weaver? His was just another family that was trying >to withdraw from > what they saw as a corrupt society. Randy buried his wife and son. His >son, shot in the > back by federal marshals, was trying to return to the house. His last >words were, "I'm > coming daddy." Vicky, his wife, was murdered by an FBI agent named Lon >Horiuchi as > she stood in the doorway holding an infant child in her arms. Lon, who >brags that he can > put his shots "on a quarter" at two hundred yards, shot her in the >head at a distance of > about two hundred yards. Vicky Weaver is long buried, and Lon is still >working for the > FBI as a "shooter," not seeing anything wrong with what he did. > > [Editors note: Lon Horiuchi has just been indicted by the State of >Idaho, for the > crime of "involuntary manslaughter." Kevin Harris, who was found not >guilty by a > jury in his federal trial, is being charged with Murder in the First >Degree. What does > that tell you?] > > So, if the People can't vote honest and moral leaders into office, and >there isn't any way > to get rid of the rotten apples- or to even get damages when they have >done wrong, and > the government has demonstrated that they will take you out if you try >to separate from the > society, then what options are left? > > It's a hard question with an even harder answer. > > Go ahead and educate the public all you want -- the public is so >enamored with the 30 > second sound byte that they will never pay attention long enough to >ever present a threat > to the established order. The government, adhering to its global >agenda, is rushing ahead > full tilt to steamroller our remaining rights. Our own Congress and >President declared war > on the American People in 1932 (the infamous "Trading With The Enemy >Act"), and they > have now progressed to the rape, pillage and burn phase of the war. >Who is so foolish as > to claim that this is not so? > > This letter is not a call to anarchy. It is a demand for >accountability from the treasonous > bastards that are destroying our country. The problem is that the >legislators, judges, > prosecutors, and other public officials have chosen to sidestep the >constitutionally > mandated checks on their power by not swearing oaths of office or >posting fidelity bonds. > They have passed laws giving themselves immunity from suits for their >unlawful actions. > They have created organizations of jack-booted thugs to intimidate, >harass, and > sometimes kill anyone who is willing to speak out or show any form of >resistance. These > scum have set themselves outside the law, and are thus by definition, >outlaws. Since they > eschew any of the legitimate means of accountability, then it looks >like there is only one > way to re-instill a respect for the Constitution. We must give the >members of government > more incentive to support the Constitution limitations on government >than they have to > violate the Constitution. > > That means that a few of them need to be killed. Maybe a lot of them. >Perhaps when they > see that there is a final solution available to the people, and that >they are not untouchable, > they might start acting in an accountable manner. Since our public >servants have separated > themselves from all of the established forms of accountability, it is >time to return to > Chairman Mao's observation: All political power emanates from the >barrel of a gun. > > You say: "That's immoral!" I respond that morality is concerned with >right and wrong. > When an organized group attacks you, your family, or your community, >then they have > performed what can only be described as an act of war. The response of >any moral > individual is that you defend yourself and prosecute the war to the >fullest extent possible, > for the purpose of winning. Preemptive strikes are just part of the >rules of the road for this > task. Wars are either won or lost, and the Federal Government, along >with the various > state apparatuses, is at war with the American People. ClicheČ as it >sounds, they drew first > blood. > > So if they are to be killed, it must be done for cause. Those laboring >to bring our nation > back to its Republican rule of Law must not kill innocent people in >the process. Blowing > up innocent children and non-participants is just as much a crime as >any that the tyrants > have committed. The way to change the government is through the >surgically precise > excision of the traitorous lumps. The wiser ones will see the writing >on the wall, and there > will be a spontaneous remission of the treasonous disease. > > The only problem that remains is in identifying the enemy. Moral >action requires that the > right targets be chosen. Focusing on the low level players would not >significantly affect the > treasonous policies. It is the ruling elite that promulgates the >policies, and it is they who > must be held accountable. the charge is willful treason, and the >sentence is preordained. > When the ruling elite realize that they are not immune to >accountability for their actions, > then changes will come quickly. > > The major stumbling block to this plan is that most people don't have >the guts to carry out > the deed. Or if they do, it's a spur of the moment action with no >planning or preparation. > This is not the way to do it. Wars are not won by spur of the moment, >emotionally ignited > actions. They are won by calm, cool planning and sound strategy. It is >up to the people as > individuals, who can't rely on any group or organization. Too many >have been infiltrated by > the enemy. Make sure you know what you are doing before you go off >half-cocked. > There are lots of how-to books on this delicate subject. > > Leave no evidence, have no connecting links, and don't flap your lips. >The result is no > arrests. The ruling elite may call it terrorism, but did they ever >have a no-knock raid pulled > on their house? Were they ever forced to stand in their own homes, >naked or in their > underwear while masked federal or state agents tore the house apart- >while making crude > jokes about their wife and terrorizing their children? Have they ever >had to try to rebuild a > sense of "home" after the government came in and destroyed any >semblance of security > that the family had? Did they have their pregnant wife slammed up >against the wall, causing > her to lose the baby? Did they have to find an answer for their little >boy, when he asked if > the welfare police were going to come back and beat up daddy? > > What is accountability all about? The second amendment ensures that We the > People have the means to take down the real terrorists. This is a view >most > people won't openly discuss, though they may hold it deep in their >hearts. To > seriously consider the idea is to potentially confront the inescapable >conclusion > that action, not talk, is required, and that's too much for most. > > Finally, let's talk about what happens if you get caught. There are no >prisoners in this war: > Expect to be crucified. Tried in the press, condemned in the public >arena, and then put on > "trial" in a court that will not allow anything but a guilty verdict. >Dumped in the worst hell of > the prison system, fighting for your life and manhood, unable to >contact your family or find > out anything about them. After years of incarceration, there might be >an execution, or you > might be found dead in your cell, another unfortunate "suicide." But >if you think the > downside is too rough, then read about what happened to the signers of >the Declaration of > Independence. They were uniformly abused, harassed, ruined, and in >some cases killed. > They saw horrible treatment for themselves and their families. Is the >price they paid worth > anything? > > If you are unable to accept the responsibility of fighting for your >freedom while there is still > a bit of freedom to move and communicate, then you had better accept >the slavery and > live with it. There will never be a better time to oppose the tyra.nts >than now. As in any > war, there will be casualties. It may happen to you, whether you are >in the fight or not. > Why wait to fall? Why stick your head in the sand and wait for things >to get worse? Why > not take the fight to the oppressors and at least show them that their >plans will be > opposed? > > Winston Churchill said it best: > > "If you will not fight for the right when you can easily win >without bloodshed, > if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not so >costly, you may > come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds >against you > and only a precarious chance for survival. There may be a worse >case. You > may have to fight when there is no chance of victory, because it >is better to > perish than to live as slaves." > > > > > > > About the author: 'The Guardian' is the nom de plume of an individual >who occasionally > sends Media Bypass letters and articles for submission. His work has >been published in > several magazines under various names. He chooses to remain anonymous >(in view of the > above letter) for obvious reasons. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 06:58:01 +0800 To: William Knowles Subject: Re: (eternity) autonomous agents In-Reply-To: <199801132039.PAA14695@homeport.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 1:23 PM -0800 1/13/98, William Knowles wrote: >If I remember Black Unicorn's posts some months back about the >Seychelles, The Rene government will protect you from extradition >from any country with their military for what? $6 million? Or until a higher bid comes in.... Really, there is no security in meatspace. Not compared to the security mathematics provides. Whether floating offshore barges or abandoned oil rigs or compliant Third World dictatorships, no "data haven" with an identifiable nexus in meatspace will last for long, at least not serving all types of materials. When I read Sterling's "Islands in the Net," in 1988, I was initially upset that he'd "discovered" my own developing ideas about data havens (though I called it crypto anarchy), but then pleased to see how he he'd missed the boat on the role cyberspace and strong crypto would inevitably play. But the legacy of "data havens" is that people get the wrong idea, by thinking of a data haven as a "place." In actuality, what's important are the retrieval mechanisms, not the place things are possibly stored. Hence approaches like Blacknet. (The parallels with the international money system are obvious...it is less important each year that passes just "where" the underlying store of value is physically stored. There are some important issues and differences, though.) --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 07:08:38 +0800 To: William Knowles Subject: Re: (eternity) autonomous agents In-Reply-To: <199801132039.PAA14695@homeport.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 1:23 PM -0800 1/13/98, William Knowles wrote: >Anguilla seems to be a doing agood job on becoming a country >willing on hosting data havens. Oh yeah? It's been a while since we talked about this (at least on the Cypherpunks list), but a couple of years ago there was much discusson on the CP list about just what items would be allowable in Anguilla. Vince Cate gave his assessment, which I found fairly nebulous, in that it appeared the Ruling Families would allow what they would allow, and not allow what they would not allow---there seemed to be a lot of ad hoc rulings. (Given that copies of "Penthouse" are illegal in Anguilla, if I recall this correctly, and given that gun are illegal, and drugs are illegal, I rather doubt that Anguilla would happily host "The Aryan Nations Bomb Site," or "Pedophile Heaven," or "Gun Smuggler's Digest. " Or the even juicier stuff any "data haven" with any claim to really being a data haven will surely have.) >And there are likely under a hundred oil companies looking >for firms to 'recycle' their old oil platforms and drilling >rigs wasting away around the world, I'm sure some might just >give you one just to be rid of future liability. Given the willingness of the French to have SDECE sink Greenpeace ships in neutral ports, how long before a couple of kilos of Semtex are applied to the underside of these oil rigs? Given what happened with "pirate broadcast tankers," the future is not bright. When the first "oil rig data haven" is found to have kiddie porn, bomb-making info, and (shudder) material doubting the historicity of the Holocaust, the U.N. will cluck and the public will cheer when it is boarded and seized, or simply sunk. As I said in my last piece on this subject, there is no security in meatspace comparable to what is gotten with mathematics. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Ross Anderson Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 23:25:15 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: (eternity) autonomous agents Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Ryan Lackey: > A "datahaven country" would have > to be immune to such tactics -- either having its own strong military > (China as datahaven) to defend its national interests, political > connections (Israel?), or enough trade with the US that shutting off > data commo would be impossible for economic reasons (Singapore?). A virtual datahaven could be constructed eaily provided you knew how to index controversial matter. Publish the rude things about the Prophet Mohammed on a server in Israel, the anti-Serb rants in Croatia, the kiddyporn in Sweden, the violence in America, the Nazi hate speech in Syria and the anti-scientology stuff in Germany. If someone wants to curse and swear at the whole world at once, then there is this amazing new invention called hypertext ... Ross From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: bill.stewart@pobox.com Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 10:02:19 +0800 To: The Sheriff Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980113151945.00856dd0@popd.ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Of course you _have_ that right; I was writing in response to the assertion that the _Constitution_ says you have it, when in fact it not only says no such thing, but the Supremes have occasionally ruled substantially differently. I agree with Jim Choate that the 9th and 10th leave room for all sorts of rights that nobody in their right mind would disagree with but which the government keeps trying to take away anyway.... but that's no excuse for claiming that things are explicitly stated there when they're not. At 04:40 PM 1/11/98 -0400, The Sheriff wrote: >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > >At 8:26 PM -0800 1/10/98, Bill Stewart wrote: >>>>> Umm, no, freedom doesn't work like that. If you open a *private* >>>>> establishment, you have the right, according to the constitution, to >>>>> deny *anyone* the right to enter or eat in your restraunt. >> >>I don't see freedom of association listed anywhere there; >>you might construe it as a "taking" or something, but it'd be a stretch. >>Also, there was a really appalling court case in the 1890s >>(Plessey vs. Ferguson), in which the Supremes ruled that states >>could require segregation with separate but equal accommodations; >>it was somewhat overturned by Brown vs. Board of Education in 1954, >>but the idea that the government can tell you how to run your business >>is long established (after all, we'd need much smaller governments >>if they couldn't be interfering in business.) > >Firstly, something being long-established doesn't make it right. >SO, let's look at it this way, regarding the freedom of association. > >You have the freedom to associate with whom you choose, don't you >think? It's not in the constitution, but you would throw a fit if >Uncle Sam told you that it was illegal for you to go play baseball >with little Billy if little Billy was black and you were white. > >AND, in my not so humble opinion, If you have the freedom to play >with little Billy, then you have the freedom to tell little Billy >to go fuck himself because you refuse to play with "niggers." Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Thomas Womack Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 23:33:54 +0800 To: eternity Subject: Re: (eternity) autonomous agents Message-ID: <01bd2037$68046310$409001a3@mc64.merton.ox.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Ross Anderson wrote: >A virtual datahaven could be constructed eaily provided you knew how to >index controversial matter. > >Publish the rude things about the Prophet Mohammed on a server in Israel, >the anti-Serb rants in Croatia, the kiddyporn in Sweden, the violence in >America, the Nazi hate speech in Syria and the anti-scientology stuff in >Germany. I suspect you will still run into things which are illegal anywhere; national-security stuff can be handled provided you've got a complete list of pairs of unfriendly nations, but I don't think (eg) the more extreme sort of kiddyporn is legal *anywhere*. Tom From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 05:40:00 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Should police knock before entering - SC to decide [CNN] Message-ID: <199801132128.PAA28732@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > SUPREME COURT CASE: SHOULD POLICE KNOCK BEFORE ENTERING? > > SCOTUS graphic January 13, 1998 > Web posted at: 2:14 p.m. EST (1914 GMT) > > WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The Supreme Court was being asked Tuesday to > decide whether law enforcement officers should ring the doorbell or > knock before entering a building if they sense danger. > > The case focuses on a 1994 incident in Oregon. Hernan Ramirez fired > his gun after police broke in his garage window after they received > a tip that a fugitive was in the Ramirez house. It was a tip that > turned out to be wrong. > > Ramirez fired his gun without knowing that those intruding were law > officers, and once he realized who the intruders were he > surrendered. > > "The police fire back a fusillade of fire, screaming 'police! > police!' -- this is the first time Mr. Ramirez realizes that the > police are there," said public defender Michael R. Levine. > > Even though Ramirez was not the fugitive that police had been > looking for, they still arrested Ramirez on weapons charges since, > as a convicted felon, he was not permitted to possess a gun. > > A federal judge later ruled that the police search had been > unconstitutional. The federal government then brought the case to > the Supreme Court, arguing that the increased danger in that > particular case had warranted the window-shattering no-knock entry > into the Ramirez building. [text deleted] ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Adam Shostack Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 04:53:42 +0800 To: thomas.womack@merton.oxford.ac.uk Subject: Re: (eternity) autonomous agents In-Reply-To: <01bd2037$68046310$409001a3@mc64.merton.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: <199801132039.PAA14695@homeport.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Thomas Womack wrote: | I suspect you will still run into things which are illegal anywhere; | national-security stuff can be handled provided you've got a complete list National security stuff has to be source controlled. You can't expect the New York Times to not publish the Pentagon papers once they've leaked. The responsibility is on the owner of the data to keep it secret, not on the whole world to help once he's screwed up. There are times when the people who get the data may choose not to redistribute it, but the decision to redistribute has been made before it gets to the eternity server. The Times did not steal the Pentagon papers. | of pairs of unfriendly nations, but I don't think (eg) the more extreme sort | of kiddyporn is legal *anywhere*. Somalia? Go places where the government is either non-existant or otherwise pre-occupied, and pay to drop IP in. The locals get communication infrastructure as long as they leave you alone, but if the linux box that has the web server goes down, so do the phone lines. Adam -- "It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -Hume From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: William Knowles Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 07:57:51 +0800 To: Tim May Subject: Re: (eternity) autonomous agents In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, Tim May wrote: > At 1:23 PM -0800 1/13/98, William Knowles wrote: > > >Anguilla seems to be a doing agood job on becoming a country > >willing on hosting data havens. > > Oh yeah? > > It's been a while since we talked about this (at least on the Cypherpunks > list), but a couple of years ago there was much discusson on the CP list > about just what items would be allowable in Anguilla. Vince Cate gave his > assessment, which I found fairly nebulous, in that it appeared the Ruling > Families would allow what they would allow, and not allow what they would > not allow---there seemed to be a lot of ad hoc rulings. If memory serves me right it was because Vince bounced off the Taxbomber site because it offered second passports, camouflage passports, and other products that was considered a fraud, Which to me sounds odd since there is some other company selling most everthing and then some from an .ai domain which Vince's company has the monopoly on handing out .ai domains http://www.ultramec.com.ai > (Given that copies of "Penthouse" are illegal in Anguilla, if I recall this > correctly, and given that gun are illegal, and drugs are illegal, I rather > doubt that Anguilla would happily host "The Aryan Nations Bomb Site," or > "Pedophile Heaven," or "Gun Smuggler's Digest. " Or the even juicier stuff > any "data haven" with any claim to really being a data haven will surely > have.) You also have to wonder how far in the future it will be before the special forces of some banana republic drops in on Vince to blow-up his operation for as he advertises publishing censored information on ones ex-president on the Internet, or for that matter I have yet to see abortion information coming from his servers. What has happened in Anguilla proves that there will be a need for different flavors of datahavens, Different degrees libility that datahaven owners will want to store information on their servers. I would love to open a XXX WWW site in Anguilla pulling in the industry average of $5-10K a month and not pay any taxes there, But it won't happen in Anguilla with the present adminstration! > >And there are likely under a hundred oil companies looking > >for firms to 'recycle' their old oil platforms and drilling > >rigs wasting away around the world, I'm sure some might just > >give you one just to be rid of future liability. > > Given the willingness of the French to have SDECE sink Greenpeace ships in > neutral ports, how long before a couple of kilos of Semtex are applied to > the underside of these oil rigs? > > Given what happened with "pirate broadcast tankers," the future is not bright. Isn't there a microstate off the coast of England called 'Sealand' run from a former oil rig/gun battery for the last 20 years? > When the first "oil rig data haven" is found to have kiddie porn, > bomb-making info, and (shudder) material doubting the historicity of the > Holocaust, the U.N. will cluck and the public will cheer when it is boarded > and seized, or simply sunk. > > As I said in my last piece on this subject, there is no security in > meatspace comparable to what is gotten with mathematics. > > --Tim May I agree completely, But there is still room for massively distrubted datahavens on oil rigs, barges, gun batteries, island nations or hiding in Norm's LAN in Cicero IL. All the harder to supress that information. William Knowles erehwon@dis.org == The information standard is more draconian than the gold standard, because the government has lost control of the marketplace. -- Walter Wriston == http://www.dis.org/erehwon/ From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 08:15:21 +0800 To: Blanc Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980112191309.0069b3d8@cnw.com> Message-ID: <199801140009.QAA17134@netcom19.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > Mad Vlad wants to know: > >>something most anarchists here will deny is the existence of something >>that could be called *immoral science*. is there such a thing? >............................................................ > >No. There are, however, immoral scientists. One way to skew the >interpretations of what you write, besides bringing up the subject of >morality, is to describe things in ways which do not correspond to their >actual manner of existence: "science" does not exist without those >individuals who have set themselves to pursue it. hmm, lets see, there were german scientists perfecting the ability to torture people in the death camps. they were practicing science, no? was it immoral? no? was it criminal? criminal but not immoral? >They should bear the >blame if they practice it immorally. they should bear a cost, a penalty, a censure, imposed by their moral peers. (oops, there's that word "should". yikes, I am really slipping. please forgive me for pretending I actually have a point here.) >You again have brought up several issues which can be examined separately >and do not necessarily coexist: well, it does help to have a highly fragmented brain to exist in todays world. one that doesn't think about things like tax money and evil government scientists at the same moment > >There is a book in Objectivist literature which presents the idea of >"context dropping", which is, that in order for some people to function as >if things were normal and that what they're doing is consistent with moral >principles, they must drop a part of their information out of sight, out of >thought, so that their actions appear logically related and make sense - >they eliminate elements from the given context, crucial essentials which >make the difference in its character. People like these might practice >secrecy in keeping information from others, but equally significant, they >also hide things from themselves. this is just basic Freudianism. but I agree its what I'm talking about. >So that's one thing which would explain some scientist's lack of moral >principles in the pursuit of science. Then it must be explained why so >many people aren't complaining about it. Are they insensitive to their >mistreatment, sitting ducks for opportunists? Or maybe these taxpayers are >equally immoral, thinking only about promised benefits, forgetting about >the disadvantage of losing control over the quality of their life? who cares why it is happening? I care, but I also want it stopped. and I want others to care enough to want, and work, to stopping it. >It's possible for some people to override the boundaries of decency, even >if they're otherwise smart enough to pursue science. But what would you >expect cryptographers to do about it? a mere cryptographer can do nothing. a mere anarchist will encourage you not to. a moral human being might become alarmed enough to change their perspective and participate in government, or changing government, in a way other than watching election commercials between the segments of their favorite TV show. an anarchist will deny such an activity is even possible. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Lucky Green Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 09:03:17 +0800 To: William Knowles Subject: Re: (eternity) autonomous agents In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, William Knowles wrote: > Isn't there a microstate off the coast of England called 'Sealand' run > from a former oil rig/gun battery for the last 20 years? Sealand, about which I wrote about on this list before, was an example that should be studied by the offshore advocates. Based in an old oilrig housing platform, some unlucky investors attempted to establish their own country. They began issuing stamps and passports for their "country". As any reasonable person should have expected, nobody would move their mail and nobody recognized their passports. They went bankrupt. -- Lucky Green PGP encrypted mail preferred From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 00:12:02 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: Talk of Banning Research into Human Cloning (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801130612.AAA25763@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199801131602.RAA06619@basement.replay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > > There is no ban on publishing information on cloning, "just" a ban on the > > activity. > > Spin doctor bullshit. Without the research there isn't anything to publish. > By banning the basic research we would in fact be banning the publishing of > the results of that scientific research. This is a more significant difference than you let on: if the research is done abroad, it can be published here. To the extent that one can theorize without experimenting, that too can be done here. > Not at all. Equating swinging of ones fist in a empty field and swinging it > into somebodies nose and then taking that supposition as justification to > ban fist swinging *is* most certainly unconstitutional. Furthermore, robbery Congress has the power to choose whether to ban acts when the cause a harm (fists that connect to federal noses), or just to ban acts whether or not they cause harms (sending threats to government officials; broadcasting without a license on an unused frequency). Like it or not, there is no question that most of these bans -- including the cloning ban -- are constitutional under the commerce and other powers, the copyrights clause notwithstanding. PS. I killfiled this guy ages ago on the grounds of rudeness, general unpleasantness, and especially a complete and utter incomprehension about how the law in this country operates. It is as if someone once read some software company's publicity about how easy it is to operate their software and concluded they should therefore be able to write programs in any language. Since someone forwarded me this post, I'm replying to it, but I doubt I'll bother doing so in the future. I entered this thread because Tim May made some comments; I respect his writing and I think other people probably do too. As a result, it seemed important to offer some basic doctrine as a response. Note, again, that I'm not expressing a view on the MERITS of the legislation, just one law professor's view on whether courts would be likely to uphold it if it passes. A. Michael Froomkin +1 (305) 284-4285; +1 (305) 284-6506 (fax) Associate Professor of Law U. Miami School of Law froomkin@ no spam please P.O. Box 248087 http://www.law.miami.edu/~froomkin/ Coral Gables, FL 33124 USA It's warm here. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 07:31:29 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Plan 9's auth() function - partialy secure distributed computing Message-ID: <199801132352.RAA29571@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: >From ravage@ssz.com Tue Jan 13 17:51:44 1998 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 17:51:42 -0600 From: Jim Choate Message-Id: <199801132351.RAA29535@einstein.ssz.com> X-within-URL: http://plan9.bell-labs.com/magic/man2html/6/auth To: ravage@einstein.ssz.com Subject: auth [search] [index] delim $$ define lbr ' roman "{" ' define rbr ' roman "}" ' NAME ticket - authentication service DESCRIPTION This manual page describes the protocols used to authorize connections, confirm the identities of users and machines, and maintain the associated databases. The machine that provides these services is called the authentication server (AS). The AS may be a stand-alone machine or a general-use machine such as a CPU server. The network database ndb(6) holds for each public machine, such as a CPU server or file server, the name of the authentication server that machine uses. Each machine contains three values important to authentication; a 56-bit DES key, a 28-byte authentication ID, and a 48-byte authentication domain name. The ID is a user name and identifies who is currently responsible for the kernel running on that machine. The domain name identifies the machines across which the ID is valid. Together, the ID and domain name identify the owner of a key. When a terminal boots, the user is prompted for user name and password. The user name becomes the terminal's authentication ID. The password is converted using passtokey (see auth(2)) into a 56-bit DES key and saved as the machine's key. The authentication domain is set to the null string. If possible, the terminal validates the key with the AS before saving it. For Internet machines the correct AS to ask is found using bootp(8). For Datakit machines the AS is a system called p9auth on the same Datakit node as the file server the terminal booted from. When a CPU or file server boots, it reads the key, ID, and domain name from non-volatile RAM. This allows servers to reboot without operator intervention. The details of any authentication are mixed with the semantics of the particular service they are authenticating so we describe them one case at a time. The following definitions will be used in the descriptions: $CH sub c$ an 8-byte random challenge from a client $CH sub s$ an 8-byte random challenge from a server $K sub s$ server's key $K sub c$ client's key $K sub n$ a nonce key created for a ticket $K lbr m rbr$ message $m$ encrypted with key $K$ $ID sub s$ server's ID $DN sub s$ server's authentication domain name $ID sub c$ client's ID $UID sub c$ user's name on the client $UID sub s$ user's name on the server A number of constants defined in auth.h are also used: AuthTreq, AuthChal, AuthOK, AuthErr, AuthTs, AuthTc, AuthAs, and AuthAc. File Service File service sessions are long-lived connections between a client host and a file server. Processes belonging to different users share the session. Whenever a user process on the client mounts a file server (see bind(2)), it must authenticate itself. There are four players in an authentication: the server, the client kernel, the user process on the client, and the authentication server. The goal of the authentication protocol is to convince the server that the client may validly speak for the user process. To reduce the number of messages for each authentication, common information is exchanged once at the beginning of the session within a session message (see attach(5)): Client->Server Tsession($CH sub c$) Server->Client Rsession(${CH sub s},~{ID sub s},~{DN sub s}$) Each time a user mounts a file server connection, an attach message is sent identifying/authenticating the user: Client->Server Tattach($K sub s lbr AuthTs, ~ {CH sub s},~{UID sub c}, ~ {UID sub s}, ~ K sub n rbr , ~ {K sub n} lbr AuthAc, ~ {CH sub s}, count rbr )$ Server->Client Rattach($ K sub n lbr AuthAs,~{CH sub c},~count rbr$) The part of the attach request encrypted with $Ksubs$ is called a ticket. Since it is encrypted in the server's secret key, this message is guaranteed to have originated on the AS. The part encrypted with the $K sub n$ found in the ticket is called an authenticator. The authenticator is generated by the client kernel and guarantees that the ticket was not stolen. The count is incremented with each mount to make every authenticator unique, thus foiling replay attacks. The server is itself authenticated by the authenticator it sends as a reply to the attach. Tickets are created by the AS at the request of a user process. The AS contains a database of which $ID sub c$'s may speak for which $UID sub c$'s. If the $ID sub c$ may speak for the $UID sub c$, two tickets are returned. UserProc->AS $AuthTreq, ~ CH sub s , ~ ID sub s , ~ DN sub s , ~ ID sub c , ~ UID sub c$ AS->UserProc $AuthOK, ~ K sub c lbr AuthTc, ~ CH sub s , ~ UID sub c , ~ UID sub s , ~ K sub n rbr , ~ K sub s lbr AuthTs, ~ CH sub s , ~ UID sub c , ~ UID sub s , ~ K sub n rbr$ Otherwise an error message is returned. AS->UserProc $AuthErr$, 64-byte error string The user passes both tickets to the client's kernel using the fauth system call (see fsession(2)). The kernel decrypts the ticket encrypted with $K sub c$. If $UID sub c$ matches the user's login ID, the tickets are remembered for any subsequent attaches by that user of that file server session. Otherwise, the ticket is assumed stolen and an error is returned. Remote Execution A number of applications require a process on one machine to start a process with the same user ID on a server machine. Examples are cpu(1), rx (see con(1)), and exportfs(4). The called process replies to the connection with a ticket request. Server->UserProc $AuthTreq, ~ CH sub s , ~ ID sub s , ~ DN sub s , ~ xxx, ~ xxx$ Here xxx indicates a field whose contents do not matter. The calling process adds its machine's $ID sub c$ and its $UID sub c$ to the request and follows the protocol outlined above to get two tickets from the AS. The process passes the $K sub s$ encrypted ticket plus an authenticator generated by /dev/authenticator from the $K sub c$ ticket to the remote server, which writes them to the kernel to set the user ID (see cons(3)). The server replies with its own authenticator which can be written to the kernel along with the $K sub c$ encrypted ticket to confirm the server's identity (see cons(3)). UserProc->Server $ K sub s lbr AuthTs, ~ CH sub s , ~ UID sub c , ~ UID sub s , ~ K sub n rbr , ~ K sub n lbr AuthAc, ~ CH sub s , ~ 0 rbr $ Server->UserProc $K sub n lbr AuthAs, ~ CH sub s , ~ 0 rbr$ Challenge Box A user may also start a process on a CPU server from a non Plan 9 machine using commands such as con, telnet, or ftp (see con(1) and ftpfs(4)). In these situations, the user can authenticate using a hand-held DES encryptor. The telnet or FTP daemon first sends a ticket request to the authentication server. If the AS has keys for both the $ID sub c$ and $UID sub c$ in the ticket request it returns a challenge as a hexadecimal number. Daemon->AS $AuthChal, ~ CH sub c , ~ ID sub c , ~ DN sub s , ~ ID sub c , ~ UID sub c $ AS->Daemon $AuthOK$, 16-byte ASCII challenge Otherwise, it returns a null-terminated 64-byte error string. AS->Daemon $AuthErr$, 64-byte error string The daemon relays the challenge to the calling program, which displays the challenge on the user's screen. The user encrypts it and types in the result, which is relayed back to the AS. The AS checks it against the expected response and returns either a ticket or an error. Daemon->AS 16-byte ASCII response AS->Daemon $AuthOK, ~ K sub c lbr AuthTs, ~ CH sub c , ~ UID sub c , ~ UID sub c , ~ K sub n rbr$ or AS->Daemon $AuthErr$, 64-byte error string Finally, the daemon passes the ticket to the kernel to set the user ID (see cons(3)). Password Change Any user can change the key stored for him or her on the AS. Once again we start by passing a ticket request to the AS. Only the user ID in the request is meaningful. The AS replies with a single ticket (or an error message) encrypted in the user's personal key. The user encrypts both the old and new keys with the $K sub n$ from the returned ticket and sends that back to the AS. The AS checks the reply for validity and replies with an AuthOK byte or an error message. UserProc->AS $AuthPass, ~ xxx, ~ xxx, ~ xxx, ~ xxx, ~ UID sub c$ AS->UserProc $AuthOK, ~ K sub c lbr AuthTc, ~ xxx, ~ xxx, ~ xxx, ~ K sub n rbr$ UserProc->AS $K sub u lbr AuthPass, ~ roman "old password", ~ roman "new password" rbr$ AS->UserProc $AuthOK$ or AS->UserProc $AuthErr$, 64-byte error string Data Base An ndb(2) database file exists for the authentication server. The attribute types used by the AS are hostid and uid. The value in the hostid is a client host's ID. The values in the uid pairs in the same entry list which users that host ID make speak for. A uid value of * means the host ID may speak for all users. A uid value of !user means the host ID may not speak for user. For example: hostid=bootes uid=!sys uid=!adm uid=* is interpreted as bootes may speak for any user except sys and adm. FILES /lib/ndb/auth database file /lib/ndb/auth.* hash files for /lib/ndb/auth SEE ALSO fsession(2), auth(2), cons(3), attach(5), auth(8) Copyright (c) 1995 Lucent Technologies. All rights reserved. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 07:40:27 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Plan 9 ordering info [rather expensive] Message-ID: <199801140005.SAA29920@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text If you're interested in getting Plan 9 in CD format: Harcourt Brace & Co. 800-782-4479 Plan 9 (full distribution on CD w/ source) ISBN 0-03-017143-1 $367.50 + 8% s/h + state tax (8.25% in Tx) Usualy takes 24 hours to setup an account with them. Apparently they don't ship this through retailers. When I called this morning for up to date info the #3 selection for individuals and professional didn't work. Just select the operator option and be done with it. I advised them their VRU didn't work correctly. If you talk to EJ tell her thanks again. If you just want to play then go to plan9.att.com and get the disk set they offer for playing around. It lacks all source but it will install a minimal system on an Intel box. Should work on most systems though I do suggest that you use a SCSI based system. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Eric Cordian Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 08:11:03 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: British Ministers Adopt Unbreakable Crypto Message-ID: <199801140005.SAA00748@wire.insync.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain The UK is replacing the traditional "red boxes" used by ministers to carry their work home with them with high tech laptops. They will use a signet ring and fingerprints to control access to the computer. There will be a "Duress Finger." :) ----- LONDON (AP) -- It's a briefcase even James Bond could love. Britain's more adventurous Cabinet ministers soon will be spiriting laptop computers inside their signature ``Red Box'' briefcases, complete with fingerprint recognition systems and silent alarms. The stacks of papers, briefing documents and constituency correspondence that now go home with each minister in lead-lined red briefcases will be replaced in a few months by a specially designed super-secure laptop -- capable of carrying infinitely more homework. At $4,000 each, the prototypes unveiled Tuesday are seen as a symbol of the modern Britain so often touted by the Labor Party and are being billed as a way to make government work more efficiently. They will not, however, be foisted on ministers who prefer the old-fashioned paper route -- but those holdouts will miss an electronic voice that chirps ``Good morning, minister'' each time the computer is turned on. Each computer, built into the briefcase, will come with a security system that uses a signet ring and fingerprints to control access to the computer. Ministers who eschew jewelry can have the signet ring's smart-card incorporated into another device, such as a keychain or pen. The fingerprint function also requires an alternate finger to be programmed in case the minister cuts the one designated, thereby corrupting the fingerprint. ``It has certainly been billed as very James Bond-ish and I suppose we are 'Q,' '' said Alan Rushworth, managing director of Rhea International, the company that designed the security system, likening himself to the 007 character who outfits James Bond with all his gadgets. ``There is even a duress finger,'' Rushworth said. ``That is for if a terrorist or gunman has a gun to the minister's head forcing him to open the computer. It will appear to function normally but doesn't, and sends a silent alarm to the Cabinet Office.'' No ``top secret'' documents will be loaded on the computers because such material is seldom transmitted electronically for security reasons, a government spokeswoman said. Even American security experts could not breach the computer's security system, Rushworth boasted. ``The Cabinet office has used its best government hackers for extensive penetration testing and they couldn't break it,'' he said. ``It has also been tried by our cousins on the other side of the Atlantic -- and they couldn't get in either.'' -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law" From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Ray Arachelian Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 07:25:57 +0800 To: cypherpunks MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Subject: GPS Jamming *New Scientist* (8 Jan 1998, http://www.newscientist.com) included an article saying that a Russian company called Aviaconversia was offering a 4-watt GPS/Glonass jammer for less than $4000 at the September Moscow Air Show. It says that it could stop civilian aircraft locking onto GPS signals over a 200 Km radius; military aircraft would be harder to jam, but a more powerful unit could be built. The risks (terrorism etc.) are fairly obvious, and it's mentioned that it would probably be easy to build one even if this company's product is somehow removed from the market. ************************************************************************** 21)From: SpyKing@thecodex.com Subject: Spying around the world Corporate Spying On The Rise In India Corporate espionage is big business in India, and because of this, Indian corporations are busy installing internal information security programs that include paper shredders, computer database password-protection, and careful security checks of new employees. Indian analysts predict that corporate counter-espionage will become mandatory at many big companies as competition among the major players heats up, even between regional businesses. NSA Monitoring Sales Of Encryption Software In July, 1995, the National Security Agency (NSA) wrote "A Study of the International Market for Encryption" which NSA official Jon A. Goldsmith declared in sworn testimony should remain secret because "in developing its portion of the study, NSA sought and received information from the Department of State, the CIA and from foreign sources." NSA acquired data for their portion of the report from its global spying programs. But in some cases, the information was obtained by the CIA and passed onto the NSA. Goldsmith noted one section of the report involved the "Proposed Netherlands Telecommunications Service Act in 1993." Goldsmith testified "The first sentence of this paragraph was supplied by the CIA and is protected." The Netherlands is a major encryption hardware and software exporter (particularly Philips). Apparently the CIA spent some monitoring the Dutch legislature to find out what kind of laws it intended to pass regarding encryption technologies. Those details found their way into the NSA's secret report. Another section of this report details the close cooperation between the NSA and foreign intelligence services. Goldsmith testified the report "References discussions between Italian officials and members of the National Security Authority regarding Law Number 222 of February 27, 1992 and is protected in its entirety..." The NSA for some time has routinely monitored foreign-produced encryption technologies and has performed daily reports on these products, in addition to how fast and how economically it can crack these products, which so far the NSA has been able to do. But, NSA officials have testified before Congress, foreign encryption software is getting increasingly more sophisticated and thus harder and more costly to break in a timely manner. Domestically, the NSA appears to be secretly keeping tabs on U.S. sales of encryption software. In the secret 1995 report there's a section titled, "Software Outlets/Computer Stores" which "Refers to a internal NSA document control number and project name..." Observers believe this project involves domestic surveillance of US retail sales of encryption software. What, how, and who is being monitored, though, is a secret. FBI Finds Files On Chinese Influence, Counterintelligence Sources Worried The FBI recently discovered new and heretofore unknown counterintelligence files in its investigation of a possible Chinese plot to influence U.S. elections. The material was found following a search FBI Director Louis Freeh ordered in September "when it became apparent the FBI was in possession of certain counterintelligence information" an FBI statement said. Sources at other agencies say they are appalled that the FBI could misplace or overlook such vital information in a major counterintelligence probe. Particularly when the probe is of a government like that of China, which is well known for spying on America and is notorious for stealing details on advanced American technologies. "Either the Bureau is inept, or something else happened here," said one counterintelligence source, who was alluding to the files possibly being been alleged in relation to White House campaign fund-raising activities). China Grooming More Spies? About 100 elite Hong Kong schools, headed by the territory's Catholic institutions, are allowed to teach all classes in English, despite the territory's return to Chinese rule. Starting with the new school term, a total of 307 of the territory's 400 schools must teach all subjects in Chinese. However, believing that their children will have better job opportunities, most parents still want English instruction for them. By the year 2000, all students will study Mandarin Chinese, the basis for nation-wide university entrance exams. Western intelligence experts believe the elite school language leniency stems from the mainland government's desire to continue the English language program to groom economic and political spies. The US State Department has identified China as the country which sends the largest number of spies to the United States and has uncovered a Chinese spy within its own ranks during 1997. Iraq's Intelligence Service Spies On UN WMD Observers Utilizing sophisticated electronic eavesdropping and other SIGINT resources, Iraqi intelligence agents have been spying on UN weapons inspectors (whose ranks reportedly include individuals collecting particular intelligence for the U.S.) and have been able to learn in advance of the UN inspection team's targets. Consequently, Iraq has been able to quickly secrete both their weapons of mass destruction and their records of manufacturing, U.S. military and intelligence officials have said. These officials suspect that some of the SIGINT capabilities of Iraq have been provided through black market channels from the Former Soviet Republics (FSR). U.S. Defense Secretary William Cohen has publicly acknowledged that the U.S. believes the Iraqis have the ability to eavesdrop electronically on the UN inspectors. In addition, Iraqi agents are suspected of conducting physical and electronic surveillance of individual UN inspection team members, including monitoring their homes. Ewen Buchanan, the spokesman for the inspection commission at UN headquarters in New York, is quoted saying "we are obviously aware that the Iraqis try their damnedest to monitor us, our planning, our thoughts, even in New York, and to develop an early warning system -- what we want, where we're going, what we are trying to inspect. They must use every means at their disposal." Pentagon spokesman Kenneth Bacon said intelligence authorities do not believe that Saddam Hussein has managed to penetrate the UN Special Commission of weapons inspectors, known as UNSCOM, but rather they believe that "Iraq has found ways to learn ahead of time some of UNSCOM's plans," using SIGINT and other technical means. Counterintelligence Searches For North Korean Spies The Agency for National Security Planning (NSP) believes North Korea has targeted 1,500 South Koreans to establish new spy networks within South Korea. Evidence of this effort has been obtained through the investigations and arrests of alleged spies. That North Korea is bankrolling a massive spy operation against the South bolsters intelligence findings by U.S. counterintelligence sources, who say North Korea is aggressively recruiting spies in South Korea, targeting infrastructure, commerce, and technology in particular. Details on the North Korean spying activities began to emerge following the recent arrest of 69-year-old Ko Young-bok, a noted sociology professor who once worked for Seoul National University. Ko stands accused of spying for North Korea for 36 years. He was arrested after having been linked to a North Korean spy couple. During its investigation, the NSP intercepted a telephone communication Ko had received from an unidentified source immediately before his Ko had received from an unidentified source immediately before his arrest urging him to fly to Beijing and take shelter at the North Korean embassy there. The caller is believed by the NSP to be in charge of North Korean spy rings in South Korea. According to intelligence sources, few people, except for ranking North Korean spy officials, know who all the spies are in South Korea. Intelligence officials said all North Korean spies form small separate rings and contact between the different rings is limited. Earlier, Shim Jong-ung, 55, was arrested on charges of spying for North Korea. A Seoul subway official, Shim is accused of providing North Korea with information which could be used to destroy subway systems. Bok is an eminent scholar known as the father of sociology studies in South Korea, who served as director of a government research center and who made two official trips to North Korea in 1973 as a South Korean adviser. South Korean authorities assert that on those occasions he actually briefed North Korea on the South's bargaining position. The alleged spy ring was broken up when a leftist reported to South Korean authorities that he had been approached by two North Koreans and asked to spy for the North. That led counterintelligence officials to detain the two North Koreans, Choi Chung Nam, 35, and his wife, Kang Yun Jung, 28. Kang committed suicide a day later. The police had searched the two carefully for any suicide capsules, X-raying them and examining their mouths, but when Kang went to the bathroom with an escort she removed a cyanide capsule she had hidden in her vagina and killed herself with it. Choi, however, confessed and apparently led the counterintelligence agents to the North Korean spies with whom he had been in contact. He also showed them drop-off places around Seoul used to hide guns, radio transmitters and ball-point pens that shoot lethal poison Choi allegedly confessed that their mission was to recruit agents, future infiltrations, and obtain information about a new, highly productive strain of corn developed in the South. Have Pakistan Intelligence Agents Penetrated U.S. Agencies? According to fundamental Pakistani sources monitored by U.S. intelligence analysts, "trusted" "brothers" have managed to rise to crucial positions in U.S. military intelligence, and have access to details about CIA operations in the Middle East. English NSA Facility Comes Under Fire An NSA facility in Menwith Hill, England, the biggest spy station in the world capable of monitoring the communications spectrum throughout Europe, has come under British scrutiny. The European Commission has issued a report, "Assessing the Technologies of Political Control," that says the spying system, known as "Echelon," is a threat to European privacy rights and laws. European Commission spokesman, Simon Davies, said the report warns that the system can "eavesdrop on every telephone, email, and telex communication around the world." According to the report, "the Echelon system forms part of the UKUSA system but unlike many of the electronic spy systems developed during the Cold War, Echelon is designed primarily for non- military targets: governments, organizations and businesses in virtually every country. "The Echelon system works by indiscriminately intercepting very large quantities of communications and then siphoning out what is valuable using artificial intelligence aids like MEMEX to find key words." Echelon uses a number of national dictionaries containing key words of interest to each country. The Commission report was requested last year by the Civil Liberties Committee of the European Parliament. It contains details of a network of American-controlled spy stations on British soil and around the world that "routinely and indiscriminately" monitor "countless phone, fax and email messages." It states "within Europe all email telephone and fax communications are routinely intercepted by the United States National Security Agency transferring all target information from the European mainland via the strategic hub of London then by satellite to Fort Meade in Maryland via the crucial hub at Menwith Hill" in Yorkshire. The report recommends a variety of measures for dealing with the NSA facility at Menwith Hill and other centers including that "the European Parliament should reject proposals from the United States for making private messages via the global communications network Internet) accessible to US intelligence agencies. The report also urges a fundamental review of the involvement of the American NSA in Europe, suggesting that the activities be scaled down, or become more open and accountable. The report was the subject of discussion on Dec. 21 by the committee of the office of Science and Technology Assessment in Luxembourg. They confirmed that the citizens of Britain and other European states are subject to an intensity of surveillance far in excess of that imagined by most parliaments. The report was developed due to pressure by Glyn Ford. Labour MEP for Greater Manchester East, England. He says "there are times in history when technology helps democratize, and times when it helps centralize. This is a time of centralization. The justice and home affairs pillar of Europe has become more powerful without corresponding strengthening of civil liberties." The reaction of the members was one of shock and "deep concern" for the rights of European citizens even though the UK facility has been in place for over 15 years and the technology there has been an "open secret" for most of that period. Thus, the question becomes have the European governments dismissed information from their own intelligence personnel as impossible, or does this signal a new coldness in European/US relations. According to the London Telegraph, the real concern is not so much civil liberties as industrial espionage. In a Dec. 16 report it stated that "the principal motivation for this rush of development is the US interest in commercial espionage." The report pointed out that several of the facilities have been in place since the Nineteen-Fifties. The role of these NSA sites was to provide military, diplomatic and economic intelligence by intercepting communications from throughout the Northern Hemisphere. When the British Parliament has questioned new eavesdropping developments over the past 40 years, secrecy issues have generally been invoked. With treaties and agreements with other European countries, these concerns are not likely to block future investigations by the European Parliament and other E. U. groups. France and Germany are particularly expected to pursue the issues raised based on concerns about industrials spying. Last year, several American agents were expelled from France on charges of economic espionage. Whether the impetus for the European report was concern for civil rights or over trade secrets, the results may be that we in the US will be better informed of what the NSA is doing at home and how our own rights have been treated by an organization which has the motto: "We don't talk, we listen." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 08:08:51 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Don't shoot the messenger (Re: 1 Question to Dr. Froomkin...) (fwd) Message-ID: <199801140034.SAA30080@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 18:38:43 GMT > From: Adam Back > Subject: Don't shoot the messenger (Re: 1 Question to Dr. Froomkin...) > It appears to me that your comments to Michael are based on your views > on the undesirability of the way the US judicial system operates in > practice today. Michael is merely offering his expert opinion on how > various questions would likely be interpreted by the current legal > system. Ok. It's not just the US judicial system, include the executive and legislative branches as well. > Screams of "and you think this is a good idea?" and "but what about > the constitution" are misdirected; I strongly suspect each of the > three posters I mention above share your distaste for the redefinition > of meanings and blatant disregard for the fairly clear meanings of the > constitution. You propose speaking softly will resolve the issue? If so why speak at all since that is the softest speech of all. Your position seems to be that if a question is hard then it should be avoided because it might offend the sensibilities? You propose that justice would be better served if it were all masked in innuendo and euphamism? Perhaps, that is no reason not to take them to task when they expound a position using fallacious arguments. Further, Dr. Froomkin is a law professor who *trains* future lawyers. If anyone should be held to task for their actions and views it is those who are deciding what tomorrows world will look like and the people charged with those decisions. There is a fundamental ethical responsibility for conservatism and literalism in those enterprises that simply isn't present in most other 'jobs'. We aren't playing horseshoes or handgrenades - close enough is not good enough. There is a fundamental difference between Lawyers, Doctors, & Soldiers and the vast majority of other human endeavours. In short, they are given the lattitude to decide events that directly and immediatley impact human life. Engineers, Pilots, hamburger flippers, etc. are seldom in a position as a matter of course of their practicing their vocation to decide whether a person will live or die. Because of this exclusion from commen behavioral limitations they should receive *less* latitude and trust in their actions instead of more (which is what is happening today). Ulitmately, when a lawyer fails in their duty to use *every* legal recourse a person sits in a room and gets to listen to the hiss of cyanide drop into the acid. When these people make a mistake there is no 'fixing' it. Sometimes "I'm sorry" just doesn't cut it. It is entirely too important to be complacent or trust without verification (thanks to Pres. Reagan for that one). The road to hell is paved with good intentions. We'll just have to agree to disagree here. If they take the job they take the responsibility to answer for their actions to any and every citizen that asks for it. However inconvenient, uncomfortable, or rude the question may be posed because the *next* citizen they ask to trust them may be the one asking the question. Never forget that but by the grace of God there go you. If you want to trust your future to somebody who 'shuts down' because somebody says "spin doctor bullshit" or strenously defends their views be my guest. Me, I want a MUCH more mature and determined individual handling me and my decendants future. I want to experience that strength of conviction from them not a yellow streak. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Adam Back Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 07:29:06 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com Subject: Don't shoot the messenger (Re: 1 Question to Dr. Froomkin...) In-Reply-To: <199801131845.MAA28160@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199801131838.SAA00317@server.eternity.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Jim Choate writes: It appears to me that your comments to Michael are based on your views on the undesirability of the way the US judicial system operates in practice today. Michael is merely offering his expert opinion on how various questions would likely be interpreted by the current legal system. Black Unicorn also tends to get flack from various people for stating what I am sure is a realistic view of the way that certain legal questions would be viewed by judges, the supreme courts etc. Personally I am grateful to any one with legal expertise giving input to legal questions on list. Greg Broiles also adds useful comments in this area. Screams of "and you think this is a good idea?" and "but what about the constitution" are misdirected; I strongly suspect each of the three posters I mention above share your distaste for the redefinition of meanings and blatant disregard for the fairly clear meanings of the constitution. Adam -- Now officially an EAR violation... Have *you* exported RSA today? --> http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/ print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 10:11:10 +0800 To: The Sheriff Message-ID: <34BC1B0C.FB57F941@ssds.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain The Sheriff wrote: > > At 8:26 PM -0800 1/10/98, Bill Stewart wrote: > >>>> Umm, no, freedom doesn't work like that. If you open a *private* > >>>> establishment, you have the right, according to the constitution, to > >>>> deny *anyone* the right to enter or eat in your restraunt. > > > >I don't see freedom of association listed anywhere there; > >you might construe it as a "taking" or something, but it'd be a stretch. > >Also, there was a really appalling court case in the 1890s > >(Plessey vs. Ferguson), in which the Supremes ruled that states > >could require segregation with separate but equal accommodations; > >it was somewhat overturned by Brown vs. Board of Education in 1954, > >but the idea that the government can tell you how to run your business > >is long established (after all, we'd need much smaller governments > >if they couldn't be interfering in business.) > > Firstly, something being long-established doesn't make it right. > SO, let's look at it this way, regarding the freedom of association. These arguments are all smoke and mirrors unless we figure out where authority lies (? ;-) As far as I'm concerned freedom of association is implied by freedom of assembly. To assemble in this context obviously means to associate. If it doesn't, then what the hell is it? To come together in order to work things out? Is that association? In the context of assembling for commerce, commerce is just assembling and agreeing on the terms of free association. The authority of a Supreme Court was challenged by Thomas Jefferson, who speculated that if such a court were the ultimate arbiter of justice, then a tyranny of the judiciary would follow. So who ultimately judges? I should think having a federal body judge the constitutional limitations of the federal government is an obvious conflict of interest. In any case, anyone willing to read the constitution and do just a little bit of homework will find out that the constitution is a *limitation* of the powers of the federal government, not a broad grant. This design of the Constitution was seriously undermined when Roosevelt stacked the Supreme Court in order to judge that Social (in)Security was constitutional. In their decision they decided that the welfare clause was a broad grant of power to federal government. This flies in the face of more than 100 years of judicial readings of the constitution, not to mention logic. If the federal government was given a broad grant of powers in the Constitution, why did it outline only specific powers? (In fact, exactly this argument was put forth when Madison(?) was questioned on the intent of the welfare clause -- didn't the Supreme Court justices, with their intellectual clout bother to research the writing of the designers of said document?) [little know fact: Earl Warren, noted Supreme Court "Justice" was the designer of the Japanese-American Prison camps in the US during WWII] If the US Constitution is a contract with the people on the scope and nature of their government, then I at least want an outside arbiter of that contract. All references to Spooner's "The Constitution of No Authority" aside, if it is not a contract then were living on the other side of the looking glass, Alice. Before someone starts spouting off on "our living constitution"(TM) someone please tell me why they didn't strike out the conflicting parts of the constitution when they "grew" it? Something like "amendments number one, two, five, nine and ten should be amended to read "unless we say otherwise". Alterations of public law almost always specify the previous laws that are struck down. In fact, if memory serves, the repeal of prohibition specifically alters the amendment that created it. (It is left as an excercise to the reader to figure out why prohibition needed an amendment to the constitution while prohibition of other mind altering substances did not ;-) Have a day. Jim From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Declan McCullagh Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 08:08:33 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Microsoft Exploratorium, from The Netly News Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain ********** http://cgi.pathfinder.com/netly/opinion/0,1042,1685,00.html The Netly News (http://netlynews.com/) January 13, 1998 Which Way the Windows by Declan McCullagh (declan@well.com) Looks like it's upgrade time not just for Microsoft Windows, but also for Microsoft's legal strategy. As engineers frantically debugged the Windows 98 beta last week, senior Microsoft executives roamed Washington, D.C., apologizing for their previous arrogance and saying they had been misunderstood. Call it Microsoft PR 2.0. "What we have not done is communicate" the way the software works, Robert Herbold, Microsoft chief operating officer, told The Netly News last Friday. But will Microsoft's new humility appease federal judge Thomas Penfield Jackson, who already issued a preliminary injunction against the Redmond firm? He's scheduled to hear from the company's lawyers and the Department of Justice this morning. Both have spent a good chunk of the last month complaining about each other: The government says Microsoft violated the judge's order, and Microsoft says the government is "poorly informed." As his attorneys argue the law, Bill Gates will be practicing politics -- a skill that will come in handy if Congress holds more antitrust hearings when it returns in late January. Pundits have made much of Gates's Democratic sympathies, another image he's trying to discard (or at least upgrade). Today Gates is scheduled to sit down for a private chat with technophilic House Speaker Newt Gingrich (R-Georgia), who will also tour the Microsoft campus. [...] *********** http://cgi.pathfinder.com/netly/afternoon/0,1012,1686,00.html The Netly News / Afternoon Line January 13, 1998 Microsoft Exploratorium The ugly guts of Microsoft Windows were on display today during a six-hour federal district court hearing in Washington, DC. Attorneys from Microsoft repeatedly pointed at a list of hundreds of .DLL and .EXE files and challenged the government to answer one deceptively simple query: Which files are part of Internet Explorer? The outcome of the case may well turn on the answer to that question, which lies at the heart of the Justice Department's beef with the software giant. Last month Judge Thomas Penfield Jackson ordered Microsoft to stop using its operating system's popularity to force-feed Internet Explorer to computer makers. But, again, which files belong to Internet Explorer? The government's witness ducked the question. "I can't go through your list and say which files are unique to Internet Explorer," replied author and computer consultant Glenn Weadock. "I don't think it's possible or even especially useful to define a list of files and say this is part of, or this is not a part of Internet Explorer." Which Microsoft has argued all along -- their browser is integrated into the operating system. Yanking it out, the company says, would be like amputating a leg: a person could only hobble along, at best. The government views this as a weak excuse, at best. "The court issued a very simple, broad order and Microsoft through its actions defied rather than complied with that order," said Justice Department trial attorney Phillip Malone. The government is asking Judge Jackson to hold Microsoft in contempt and levey a million-dollar-a-day fine. The hearing will continue tomorrow when Microsoft vice president David Cole testifies. - By Declan McCullagh/Washington -------------------------------------------------------------------------- POLITECH -- the moderated mailing list of politics and technology To subscribe: send a message to majordomo@vorlon.mit.edu with this text: subscribe politech More information is at http://www.well.com/~declan/politech/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 09:01:52 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: plan 9 features (Re: autonomous agents (fwd)) (fwd) Message-ID: <199801140127.TAA30446@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 00:33:14 GMT > From: Adam Back > Subject: plan 9 features (Re: autonomous agents (fwd)) > Sounds interesting. I am not familiar with plan 9 besides the > enthusings of a colleague reminiscing about the work done at York > Univ, UK with plan 9. > > Java has a lot going for it as a candidate due to portability and code > distribution support. I think the only thing missing from java is the > bidding and scheduling mechanisms. Your other forwarded message on > plan 9 looks interesting also. I have been working on a potential distributed data haven model using the Plan 9 architecture. I have finaly amassed enough machines where I can actualy dedicate the i/o, process, and file servers on seperate machines. The problem that I see for the immediate future is getting nodes that don't happen to reside on my premises for additional testing in about a year. I don't have a clue to how to get people to spend $400 bucks for the software (which the ATT license prohibits from commercial use) *and* dedicate several machines to the enterprise. But I'm not going to give up, maybe some folks will volunteer just to do it...:) I took the liberty of forwarding the man page for the auth() function to the cpunks list. It describes the 56-bit DES based authentication mechanism. I personaly don't care for DES so at some point I will be looking to replace that mechanism with an alternative. I also need to take some time and look at porting the Plan 9 file server adapter for Unix to Win95/NT. Either that or I mount the file systems to a suitably enhanced Linux box and then export from there. This would imply that the Win95/NT boxes need to be on the physical network of the Linux box or else excessive opportunities for MITM attacks are present. Not that simply being on the same network provides complete protection either. I hope that OpenNT will provide enough Unix-like features to minimize the port effort. The Plan 9 mechanism also needs to be enhanced in such a way that besides the access token involving encryption the actual transfer of packets are also content encrypted. This has potential compatibility problems with un-enhanced Plan 9 servers that I haven't had a chance to look at. Once I have a system up and running it will allow non-Plan 9 systems to access the resources by using what is called 'hand-held DES encryptors'. Unfortunately, there is not a real description of how this is to be accomplished in a real-world manner. My hope is to have something available sometime this summer that will allow folks to play with it at least in a limited way. If you get the chance and have the resources you should look into at least getting the Plan 9 documents. They're like $150 but call and verify that price since I didn't this morning. Also note, there are now two releases of Plan 9 floating around out there. The only distinction I am aware of is one is the 'old' release and the current is the 'new' release. Don't have a clue as to how to tell them apart or what compatibility problems will exist. My best estimate is that in about a month I will have the resources to install and begin developing the model. I am currently between employers (I don't work at Tivoli-IBM anymore) so I'm job hunting in the Austin area over the next few weeks. I'll make reports to the list on the results as I manage to get results. I don't know about Java on Plan 9, I'll look into it. Take care. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 10:21:25 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Freedom Forum report (freedom of association) (fwd) Message-ID: <199801140246.UAA31006@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 18:55:24 -0700 > From: Jim Burnes > Subject: Freedom Forum report (freedom of association) > (It is left as an excercise to the reader to figure out why > prohibition > needed an amendment to the constitution while prohibition of > other > mind altering substances did not ;-) What amazes me is that such groups as NORML and other pro-drug organizations have not had their lawyers raise this issue. As far as I can tell nobody has *ever* raised this issue in regards to the drug prohibitions. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Ben Laurie Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 05:20:49 +0800 To: Ryan Lackey Subject: Re: (eternity) autonomous agents In-Reply-To: <199801131551.KAA23584@the-great-machine.mit.edu> Message-ID: <34BBD8D8.94DBE073@algroup.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Ryan Lackey wrote: > BTW, I don't really like the overly negative names for Eternity, like > "inferno", or whatever. I like to think my data is *good* data, deserving > of a better fate. Elysium, perhaps? Or just use "eternity" > in place of "eternityspace" (a word I never should have used, since it means > the same thing), as in "upload these files to eternity", "the collection > of files currently stored in eternity", etc. Little danger of confusion > with pedestrian meanings of the word eternity, too, I think, and there > is no real reason to draw a distinction between eternity the location for > documents and eternity the overall system for creating such a space. How about "perpetuity"? Nice and neutral. "Stored in perpetuity" is a concept everyone understands, too. :-) Cheers, Ben. -- Ben Laurie |Phone: +44 (181) 735 0686|Apache Group member Freelance Consultant |Fax: +44 (181) 735 0689|http://www.apache.org and Technical Director|Email: ben@algroup.co.uk |Apache-SSL author A.L. Digital Ltd, |http://www.algroup.co.uk/Apache-SSL London, England. |"Apache: TDG" http://www.ora.com/catalog/apache From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 11:12:02 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: unsolved billing problem In-Reply-To: <06a0d1013010d18UPIMSSMTPUSR03@email.msn.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain "CLAUD W WELCH" writes: > I cancelled my membership prior to the end of two days. i would like a > refund. ME T00!!! --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 11:20:56 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: (eternity) autonomous agents In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8gZ0ie12w165w@bwalk.dm.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain William Knowles writes: > If memory serves me right it was because Vince bounced off the Taxbomber > site because it offered second passports, camouflage passports, and other > products that was considered a fraud, Which to me sounds odd since there > is some other company selling most everthing and then some from an .ai > domain which Vince's company has the monopoly on handing out .ai domains But that company was written about by some journalist, so Vince pulled its plug to avoid bad publicity. Vince also indicated (in response to my query) that he wouldn't support content that provoked denial-of-service attacks (such as the Spanish attack on the pro- basque independence web page0 > > As I said in my last piece on this subject, there is no security in > > meatspace comparable to what is gotten with mathematics. > > > > --Tim May > > I agree completely, But there is still room for massively distrubted > datahavens on oil rigs, barges, gun batteries, island nations or > hiding in Norm's LAN in Cicero IL. All the harder to supress that > information. Is it possible to make it cryptographically hard to determine where the data is stored? --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Adam Back Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 07:29:10 +0800 To: rdl@mit.edu Subject: Re: (eternity) autonomous agents In-Reply-To: <199801131244.HAA22857@the-great-machine.mit.edu> Message-ID: <199801132138.VAA00407@server.eternity.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Ryan Lackey writes: > You would be expected to comply with efforts to stamp out illegal > activities. Laws may be passed (e.g. CDA) which would require > technical measures to prevent illegal activity even if you are a > common carrier. Governments are always trying to coerce people into complying with technical measures designed by the likes of GCHQ, NSA, and various government sell-outs. Spammers have surived so far because spam is so hard to stop; stopping SPAM is an inherently hard problem, mostly because of open access SMTP relays which is basically a historic accident, and also because spammers make use of accounts that it pays them to treat as disposable. (I like to think hashcash, http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/hashcash/ is a viable solution for spam, though it too must be widely deployed before it would be practical). We can perhaps learn something from the services and environments which allow spammers to flourish, we could emulate the lack of authentication, and identification in SMTP protocols and implementations, to design attractive new services which are hard to police by design. This is the advantage of the internet protocol designer. Distributed web services as Ryan is prototyping is one attractive new service. The challenge is deployment. Adam From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Adam Back Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 07:31:18 +0800 To: eternity@internexus.net Subject: load balancing web proxy and server networks Message-ID: <199801132146.VAA00420@server.eternity.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain We might also think about adding hot spot avoidance to distributed web hosting mechanisms. A distributed web space which distributed itself to meet demand would be useful. (An example of hot spots being perhaps Dan Farmer's web site after he released Satan ... he switched the web server off to stop his T1 being saturated, until the deluge subsided). An automatic load balancing distributed web server would be a kind of next generation web proxy cacheing and mirroring scheme, dynamically replicating and cacheing data to meet demand. Robustness could be improved also by the redundancy introduced. Those browsing documents would pay for their web accesses at the service rate they desired. A market in web data would then give web proxies / mirroring agents an economic incentive to automatically replicate and migrate data. Web caches already have some protection from various laws. One other idea for an eternity service host we could leach off was suggested to me by Ian Brown . His suggestion was that it would be nice if we could con proxy caches into cacheing eternity web space for us. One way to do this for example would be to actually host our own web pages, but to configure our web server to only serve to a list of web proxies -- anybody else would get access denied. The .htaccess mechanism would be sufficient for this purpose. Adam From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Eric Cordian Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 12:00:42 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: Ricin AP Message-ID: <199801140354.VAA01308@wire.insync.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Anonymous writes: > This alert advises that nationwide trend among drug traffickers is to > "bait" law enforcement officers with a white powder called RICIN. > RICIN is a derivative of Castor beans and looks like powder > methamphetamine. It is highly toxic and if it contacts human skin, it > is fatal. The death process takes several days, depending upon the > dosage, and is almost impossible to detect during an autopsy. Ricin is a ribosome-inactivator, which inhibits protein synthesis at the cellular level by binding to and damaging the 50S ribosomal subunit. This is eventually and irreversibly fatal, although not immediately so, and the symptoms which occur in poisoned individuals are generally misdiagnosed by internists as a wide variety of other ailments. The most famous case of the use of ricin was when Bulgarian dissident Georgi Markow was assasinated by the KGB with an umbrella jab which left a microscopic porous metal sphere tainted with ricin in his leg. He died in agony a number of days later. The lethal dose of ricin in humans is microscopic, and it is a poison of choice in cancer therapy, since it destroys cells and patients are unlikely to have previous immunological exposure to it. It can be bound to monoclonal antibodies, or other carriers, to target only specific cells. > Due to this situation, in the event of suspect drug seziures, do not > come into direct skin contact with any powdered substances, and > exhibit caution of field testing any powdered substances." LOL! Like one should come in contact with ANY unknown chemical substance, powdered or not. Remember that researcher who just died after accidently getting a drop of Dimethyl Mercury on a gloved hand, not to mention the one who got a speck in her eye and succumbed to monkey herpes a couple of weeks later, despite intensive antiviral therapy. And that's not even mentioning other fun things like Thallium, and Organophosphate nerve agents, or the use of cellular penetrators like DMSO as carriers for contact poisons. Ricin isn't the only nasty substance one could use to keep jackbooted thugs out of the marijuana plants. -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law" From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Bill Stewart Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 15:47:35 +0800 To: Blanc Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980113222020.0088f100@popd.ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 07:14 PM 1/12/98 -0800, Blanc wrote: > Mad Vlad wants to know: >>something most anarchists here will deny is the existence of something >>that could be called *immoral science*. is there such a thing? >............................................................ > >No. There are, however, immoral scientists. One way to skew the Depends. [#invoke Godwin's Law] Consider the Nazi studies done on human susceptibility to freezing, poisons, torture, etc., and the followon work done by various evil empires. Some of it was just done for fun, but some of it _was_ real science, with hypotheses and experiments, and there's only so much research you can do into the resistence of the body to serious damage without actually damaging live bodies, most accidental damage to human bodies isn't done in sufficiently instrumented environments to be useful, and it's just _damn_ hard to get good volunteers these days. Did most of that work rate as "immoral science" - I'd say so. Now, some of it has uses outside the torture business, but the primary customer of the work on freezing was the nuclear bomber forces of some of the larger evil empires, which wanted to know how much risk they could take destroying their competitors' motherlands. Sure, part of the goal is to protect their employees, but even that is primarily to increase their ability to destroy their enemies' civilians, which is pretty morally dicey even if your enemy is evil. A few users like oil companies have workers in the Arctic, and most moral organizations are more concerned about preventing accidents and minimizing risks to workers than getting away with as much damage to their workers as they can; there are still some legitimate uses of the knowledge like how to do medical care for freezing-related accident victims, or extreme situations like nuclear power-plant disaster cleanup. But not a lot. Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 14:38:34 +0800 To: Adam Back Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 4:26 PM -0800 1/13/98, Adam Back wrote: >phelix@vallnet.com writes: >> On 11 Jan 1998 18:48:24 -0600, Adam Back wrote: >> [secret splitting eternity data on servers] >> >> What prevents the operator of such a server from being charged with >> "conspiracy to provide child porn" or whatever? > >I expect so. I also expect the spooks will be the ones submitting the >child porn to the service. > >> If he is holding a portion of such contraband, isn't he as liable as >> if he was holding the whole article(s)? > >RICO may make holding a portion worse than the whole thing as it may >then be construed as a conspiracy, RICO allowing asset forfeiture. This is why I favor systems where there is no way to localize the holder of data. I'm unpersuaded that any of the Eternity proposals avoid this. If _any_ site holding data is localized (traced, identified), it _will_ come under legal, financial, or physical attack. If a "network of nodes" is the server, that network and any identifiable nodes in it will be attacked. It doesn't matter whether the precise server of a precise piece of data can be pinpointed. (Think of the Gestapo, the Inquisition, the Ayotollah, the BATF, and ask whether they would care if the exact machine had been isolated?) (Dangers of Eternity servers, a note: Also, the developers of such nodes, and such software, will be major targets, no matter where they live. In fact, how will source code for Eternity nodes be checked? It's hard enough checking PGP source code, and no one even bothers to try to check remailer source code for backdoors, bugs, etc. (no impugning of Mixmaster, but I see no mention of people checking it, etc.). My point is a simple one: even if Ryan Lackey leaves the country, as he says he plans to do, various entities will probably either harass him, or, more ominously, get him to modify the source code, to put "barium" in it, and all sorts of such things. Just a thought. Until I see proof that these suspicions are wrong, I can't get excited about any of the Eternity schemes. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 14:42:27 +0800 To: platypus@acmeonline.net Subject: Re: (eternity) Re: mirroring services, web accounts for ecash In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 4:30 PM -0800 1/13/98, ? the Platypus {aka David Formosa} wrote: >You know, I think we have been missing one use for eternerty services. >Its a cheap reliable off site backup system. You simply encrypt your >data, and throw it into the system. Bandwidth. Think about it. Most of us are backing up on DATs or CD-ROMs. But our Net connections are running at 30-50 KB/sec. Do some quick calculations! Plus, Bandwidth Part II: When N people begin using Eternity for this kind of backup.... In any case, this was discussed a few years ago, so we're not "missing" this use. (Gelernter's Linda system touched on similar uses.) --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 14:47:52 +0800 To: Adam Back Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 4:33 PM -0800 1/13/98, Adam Back wrote: >Java has a lot going for it as a candidate due to portability and code >distribution support. I think the only thing missing from java is the >bidding and scheduling mechanisms. Your other forwarded message on >plan 9 looks interesting also. I haven't checked on them in the last few months, but "Electric Communities" (www.communities.com) was doing some interesting work on adding security and market mechanism extensions to Java, in a superset language they called "E." Many Cypherpunk list members, past and present worked on aspects of this, including Chip Morningstar (one of the founders), Doug Barnes, Norm Hardy, Bill Frantz, Mark Miller, etc. They can speak up and say more. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Adam Back Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 07:31:00 +0800 To: tcmay@got.net Subject: Re: steganography and delayed release of keys (Re: EternityServices) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801132241.WAA00454@server.eternity.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Tim May > At 6:46 PM -0800 1/12/98, Adam Back wrote: > >One tactic which could protect a USENET newsgroup operator from child > >porn prosecutions is if he had no practical way to recognize such > >materials until after it was distributed to down stream sites. > > Who are these "USENET newsgroup operators," anyway? (A few newsgroups are > moderated, by individuals or committees, but the vast majority are not.) I meant USENET site operators (so that would be administrators plus the people who decide policy). Even moderation need not be a fatal problem with steganography, if we post the key to decrypt the stego encoded message after the article has had a chance to be distributed. (And presuming that our mimic function is good enough to fool the moderator.) For unmoderated groups, we have a much easier task: that of avoiding undue attention or cancellations until the message has propagated. > Newsgroups get removed from university and corporate newsfeeds, or by > nations, and Adam's ruse would not stop them from continuing to do so. In the extreme we can try to use mimic functions to post textual information seemingly on charter for whatever groups are remaining at a given time. Binary data is obviously much easier to hide data in, but is in any case a natural target for omitting from feeds due to volume. Unfortunately good quality textual steganography encodings are I think a hard problem for reasonable data rates. One advantage in our favour is the massively noisy and incoherent garbage which forms the majority of USENET traffic. Plausibly mimicing an alt.2600 or warez d00d message, or a `cascade' seems like an easier target. Adam From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Adam Back Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 07:30:36 +0800 To: eternity@internexus.net Subject: metrics of eternity service properties Message-ID: <199801132316.XAA00505@server.eternity.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Tim May writes: > >> This of course doesn't scale at all well. It is semi-OK for a tiny, > >> sparse set of reposted items, but fails utterly for larger database > >> sets. (If and when Adam's reposted volumes begin to get significant, > >> he will be viewed as > >> a spammer. :-) ) > > > >The best criticism of my eternity design to date! I agree. > > I assume you are serious, and do agree, as it is a very solid > criticism of the "Eternity as continuous posting to Usenet" model. Yes. I think my eternity service in USENET is actually fairly resistant to attackers determining readers and publishers. The limiting factor is the bandwidth consumed. We have to keep below some threshold otherwise news admins may attempt to filter out eternity articles; and there is some limit at which the system would break down altogether. One suspects posting more than around 10Mb-20Mb / day would be enough to motivate administrators to start filtering. Some people with questionable motivation also have made something of a sport of sending forged cancel messages, and these people will be more easily motivated, as as far as I can tell their motivation is a perverse enjoyment of censorship, and sense of self importance, and of malice in perpetrating DoS attacks. > I see several axes to the analysis of the various Eternity schemes. > > -- retrieval time for a customer or client to obtain some set of data, > ranging from (I assume) ~minutes or less in an Eternity DDS file system to > ~days or less in a Blacknet system to (I am guessing) ~weeks or months in > an Adam Back sort of system. Actually I was aiming for seconds access time with "Eternity USENET". (I am going to dub it "Eternity USENET" -- just any name -- because the lack of names to denote the services under discussion is becoming awkward.) However the reason I am able to claim seconds is because I aim to keep the data either in the newspool, or in a local copy of recent messages. The design is similar to TELETEXT, the text mode information services hosted as side bands on TV signals. The basic topology is the same: we have a broadcast medium, data is slowly re-broadcast. So my design is fairly analogous to a FAST-TEXT system, which keeps a copy of all the pages, and updates them as the TEXT signal sweeps past. So metrics we could use to describe the functionality of an eternity design should include "update time", and "access time". I'll try a quick table of this to illustrate my understanding of Eternity BlackNet (BlackNet used to host an Eternity like service), and Eternity DDS as compared to Eternity USENET. E-BlackNet E-USENET E-DDS update delay 2-3 days 2-3 days minutes access time 2-3 days seconds minutes b/width efficiency good/ poor intermediate intermediate nodes 10 10,000 10,000 capacity 100 Gb 100 Mb 10 Tb security good good intermediate security dependencies remailers, remailers, custom USENET USENET componenets ease of deployment easy easy hard Clearly these figures are order of magnitude only, if even that accurate. My reasoning is as follows: Eternity BlackNet: I am presuming we have third party BlackNet operators who offer to buy and sell information, acting as distribution agents. It takes around a day to send requests or submissions to the operator via a dead drop (encrypted material posted to USENET via remailer). If requested information is sent to clients via replyable nyms bandwidth efficiency is improved. If information is sent to clients via dead drops efficiency drops because the information is broadcast for each request. Clearly a user could, if he wished to improve his access time for browsing BlackNet eternity documents, replicate the entire BlackNet database locally. (Or perhaps subsets defined as all documents by a chosen set of authors, or all documents with given keywords, or with a given third party rating etc). E-USENET: This involves re-posting documents periodically to USENET, and relying on the small data set size to ensure that local eternity proxies can retain a current copy of the dataset. Variants on this approach can migrate towards E-DDS approach by using publically accessible E-USENET servers, and by E-USENET server caches sharing their then larger document store. Also by adding other submission mechanisms to the pool formed by the set of publically accessible E-USENET services. E-DDS: Economic incentives are used to encourage people to take risks in hosting controversial documents. Indirection is used to have a hidden set of data servers, which are only accessed via publically known gateways. (I would recommend looking at Ian Goldberg and David Wagner's TAZ server, the url for which I posted in an earlier post, for this indirection function). I am unsure how an attacker would be prevented from discovering the hidden set of data servers. How do we exclude the attacker from becoming a gateway server? I get the impression that the idea also is make the service a commercial success as a distributed web hosting system, and to get away with comparitively small amounts of controversial materials which migrate. This idea is a useful model I think. Comments? Clarifications, Ryan? Adam From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Adam Back Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 07:28:38 +0800 To: eternity@internexus.net Subject: mobile agents paper Message-ID: <199801132319.XAA00514@server.eternity.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Nelson Minar pointed out in email to me the relevance of his thesis proposal and paper "Computational Media for Mobile Agents" to the discussion on autonomous agents as a means to deploying eternity servers and remailers etc. http://www.media.mit.edu/~nelson/ (Not read it yet). Adam From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Bill Frantz Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 16:19:04 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Re: Talk of Banning Research into Human Cloning (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801131602.RAA06619@basement.replay.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I wonder if it is the intention of those who support a ban on human cloning to prevent my friend who lost his forearm in the Vietnam War from having a new one grown and attached? ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Frantz | One party wants to control | Periwinkle -- Consulting (408)356-8506 | what you do in the bedroom,| 16345 Englewood Ave. frantz@netcom.com | the other in the boardroom.| Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Peter trei" Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 16:28:47 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Neat quote from Ron Rivest Message-ID: <19980114075735.18375.qmail@hotmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At the RSA Data Security Conference: "There are probably more people in this room working on crime *prevention* than in the entire Federal Government." -- Ron Rivest quoted (hopefully correctly) by Peter Trei ptrei@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 16:28:49 +0800 To: William Knowles Subject: Re: (eternity) autonomous agents In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 3:51 PM -0800 1/13/98, William Knowles wrote: >Isn't there a microstate off the coast of England called 'Sealand' run >from a former oil rig/gun battery for the last 20 years? What Lucky said. (And read up on the scam ^H^H^H^H scheme called "Oceania," the floating libertarian non-state. And Minerva, and so on.) .... >I agree completely, But there is still room for massively distrubted >datahavens on oil rigs, barges, gun batteries, island nations or >hiding in Norm's LAN in Cicero IL. All the harder to supress that >information. "Room for," certainly. "Economic incentive for," apparently not. Look, if you can wave a magic want and give us "massively distributed data havens on oil rigs, barges,....," I'll be the first to cheer. But the factors I described, and Lucky described, are why it would be a foolish investment for anyone to build even the first one, let alone the numbers you are contemplating. Wishing won't make it so. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Adam Back Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 08:41:38 +0800 To: phelix@vallnet.com Subject: Re: (eternity) mailing list and activity In-Reply-To: <34b9a145.15127288@128.2.84.191> Message-ID: <199801140026.AAA00469@server.eternity.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain phelix@vallnet.com writes: > On 11 Jan 1998 18:48:24 -0600, Adam Back wrote: > [secret splitting eternity data on servers] > > What prevents the operator of such a server from being charged with > "conspiracy to provide child porn" or whatever? I expect so. I also expect the spooks will be the ones submitting the child porn to the service. > If he is holding a portion of such contraband, isn't he as liable as > if he was holding the whole article(s)? RICO may make holding a portion worse than the whole thing as it may then be construed as a conspiracy, RICO allowing asset forfeiture. Alternatively holding a portion makes it more difficult for the attacker to determine who the holders are, and to mount a multi-jurisdictional attack (eg seizing disks in multiple countries). Not sure how it would work out in practice. Adam -- Now officially an EAR violation... Have *you* exported RSA today? --> http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/ print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 13:45:46 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: TLS implementations Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Don't you know the place where there is anyone TLS implementations (source code)? Teach to me if it is here because it is known. Thank you very much. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Adam Back Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 08:41:42 +0800 To: ravage@ssz.com Subject: plan 9 features (Re: autonomous agents (fwd)) In-Reply-To: <199801122044.OAA22802@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199801140033.AAA00495@server.eternity.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Jim Choate writes: > > Adam Back > > > [autonomous agents, markets for CPU time, disk, comms] > > Has anyone done any work that you are aware of under the Plan 9 os? > With it's fundamental seperation of i/o, process, and file servers > along with it's inherent bidding/scheduling mechanism it seems to me > that a lot of this work has already been done. In addition there are > programs that allow Linux boxes to participate as Plan 9 compliant > file servers. Sounds interesting. I am not familiar with plan 9 besides the enthusings of a colleague reminiscing about the work done at York Univ, UK with plan 9. Java has a lot going for it as a candidate due to portability and code distribution support. I think the only thing missing from java is the bidding and scheduling mechanisms. Your other forwarded message on plan 9 looks interesting also. Adam From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Bill Stewart Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 16:58:46 +0800 To: The Sheriff Subject: Re: Spam In-Reply-To: <19980111.045850.4894.7.Lord_Buttmonkey@juno.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980114004615.00896100@popd.ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 04:02 PM 1/11/98 -0400, The Sheriff wrote: >My interest isn't simply in getting rid of the spam. "Empty >Trash" is a pretty simple concept on Eudora. What I want to do >is fight the flow -- and while there may be as many as 10 spammers >per ISP out there, every spam I do something about is one less >server that accepts messages for routing that don't come from one >of their accounts. There's some interesting technical work being done at maps.vix.com, by Paul Vixie and friends. They've got a Realtime Blackhole List server which kills any email coming from any site they know that permits third-party smtp relays. They're a bit on the aggressive side (their current implementation doesn't provide a convenient local override list, so if you install their system in your sendmail.cf, you lose email from anybody they block until _they_ decide the site has rehabilitated itself.) I learned about them the hard way (they blackhole ix.netcom.com, so my mail to the pgp-users list now gets rejected. Sigh.) Their web page says they'd rather throw out a few extra babies to get rid of all this excess bathwater. After all, they're not just killing spam, they're killing all mail you receive from any system that's easy to spam through, whether it's spam or not. Getting rid of third-party relays is a good start, and you don't need to get rid of _all_ of them to make spamming much harder; if you convince most of the big internet services to turn them off, you force the spammers to go searching for relays, which is not only more work, but if there are a number of trap systems waiting for them they may get caught. Losing third-party relay is rather a shame - the Internet used to be a cooperative system where everybody tried to get mail through, and avoiding third-party relay is more complex if your users have lots of different domain names (e.g. www.foo.com hosted at bigisp.net). It also pushes the net more in the direction of all mail needing to have True Names, which is a Bad Thing, and decreases robustness of the overall system. Personally, I've found it more trouble now that my employer doesn't do third-party relay, since I need different configurations for Eudora and Netscape Mail depending on whether my laptop is on the LAN at work or dialed into my ISP from home (Win95 IP appears to be too dumb to let me configure a hosts file that points "mailhost" to the appropriate IP address, and Netscape seems to keep all its options in the Registry rather than accepting command-line options like Eudora does.) Another approach to reducing spam is of course to keep contacting ISPs to kill off bad users, and to get ISPs to refuse spamhauses as customers. Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 17:12:20 +0800 To: Bill Stewart Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980113222020.0088f100@popd.ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: <199801140905.BAA28777@netcom13.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain [nazi death studies] >Did most of that work rate as "immoral science" - I'd say so. uh huh but we have a problem. I thought "technology is neutral". hmmmmm, maybe technology != science.....? >A few users like oil companies have workers in the Arctic, and >most moral organizations are more concerned about preventing accidents >and minimizing risks to workers than getting away with >as much damage to their workers as they can; there are still >some legitimate uses of the knowledge like how to do medical >care for freezing-related accident victims, or extreme situations >like nuclear power-plant disaster cleanup. But not a lot. interesting book on this a friend told me about: "toxic sludge is good for you" -- describes for example how many oil companies are creating an effective *facade* based on very aggressive PR campaigns. if anyone wants good info on the state of our times, and how our government has been hijacked.... check this one out. it shows that as savvy as "you" think you are (you is anybody here), we're all living in a gingerbread fantasy world created by the mass media-- even when you're not tuned into it. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Adam Back Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 09:54:44 +0800 To: eternity@internexus.net Subject: Re: (eternity) Automating BlackNet Services In-Reply-To: <199801140008.BAA17146@basement.replay.com> Message-ID: <199801140142.BAA00388@server.eternity.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Scratch Monkey writes: > Here's a way to do an automated "high risk" server, using many of the > same methods as the eternity implementation but with longer delays and > more security for the server. This design ties in pretty well with what I understood Tim May's suggestion to be of using BlackNet to provide eternity services. I notice that you are assuming that all document delivery would be via digital dead-drop (alt.anonymous.messages). Depending on the usage pattern of this service it has the potential to be higher bandwidth than by Eternity USENET design. The BlackNet with dead-drop only scheme you propose will become more expensive in bandwidth than Eternity USENET at the point at which the volume of satisfied document requests being posted to USENET for different recipients exceeds the volume required to repost the traffic at the desired update rate. This is because you may have multiple requests for the same document, all of which must be posted to alt.anonymous.messages. One thing you could do to reduce this overhead would be to combine requests for the same document. To do this you could add an extra delay to satisfying requests to increase the chances of accumulating more requests for the same document. Alternatively, documents which were sent out within the last 24 hours or so could have just the bulk symmetric key encrypted for the subsequent recipients sent together with a message-id. (A separated multiple crypto recipient block). A more subtle problem you would probably want to address with this design is that you don't really want anonymous requested documents to be linkable, so you would need to do stealth encoding of the messages. This tends to be more complex for multiple recipients, but it is doable, and is made easier by standardising on public key size. In general I think I consider my Eternity USENET design more secure than your design and of similar overhead depending on whether the usage pattern results in lower bandwidth. I make this claim because users are offered better security with E-USENET because they are completely anonymous, and don't need to submit requests. They can passively read E-USENET, perhaps on a university campus, or with a satellite USENET feed. The readers are much harder to detect. This is significant because remailers are complex to use, and the users should be assumed to be less technically able (ie more likely to screw up remailer usage). Publisher anonymity is of basically the same security. A lower bandwidth alternative, to either E-USENET or what you have termed Automated BlackNet alternative is therefore to send messages via use-once mixmaster remailer reply blocks of the sort used by some nymservers. Clearly this is also lower security because the user must creating reply blocks which ultimately point back to himself. However the performance win is big. With this architecture BlackNet can win significantly over E-USENET because the volume is reduced to just indexes of available documents. Also I consider indexes are probably low enough risk for people to mirror on the web or cache on the web or whatever. My E-USENET prototype design has a separate index mechanism. (I understand there is some magic inside mixmaster which prevents packet replay, which helps avoid message flood attacks, though didn't locate the code fragment responsible for this functionality when I examined the sources.) Also I found your use of hashes and passwords so that the server does not necessarily know what it is serving interesting. I have similar functionality in my prototype E-USENET implementation. I mainly included the functionality because the prototype is also being used as an publically accessible eternity USENET proxy, to allow the operator to marginally reduce risks. I think this approach is of marginal value, in that the attacker will be easily able to compile an index from the same information as users. This is really a form of secret splitting: the key is one part, and the data the other part. The key can be considered to be part of the URL. > Both the client and server software should be trivial to write, and in > fact I am working on that now. The server is partially written, but I am > at a handicap because I do not have access to usenet at this time. If > anyone knows of some canned code (preferably sh or c, but perl would work) > that will perform functions such as "Retrieve list of articles in > newsgroup x" and "Retrieve article number y", a pointer would be nice. http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/eternity/ I have done most of the work already I think. What you are trying to do is so similar that you should be able to acheive what you want with some light hacking of my perl code. For testing purposes I am in the same position as you; dialup ppp connection and linux machine. What I did was to implement both newspool access code, and NNTP access code. For local testing I just create a dummy news-spool. The eternity distribution comes with a few documents in this dummy news spool. A real local news spool would work also. Then you can simulate everything you want offline. You can change the config file to switch to an open access NNTP news-server at any time for a live test. All the code to read USENET is there, and to scan chosen NNTP headers, etc. I would highly recommend perl as a rapid prototyping language. What you see took 3 days (long days, mind, motivation was at an all time high around then). Adam From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Blanc Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 17:49:34 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980114014522.00720408@cnw.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Bill Stewart wrote, in reference to "immoral science" vs immoral *scientists*: >Depends. [#invoke Godwin's Law] >Consider the Nazi studies done on human susceptibility to freezing, >poisons, torture, etc., and the followon work done by various >evil empires. Some of it was just done for fun, >but some of it _was_ real science, with hypotheses and experiments, [..etc...] ............................................................. I was being picky/particular. Because consider that science does not conduct itself: it is a method developed by scientists, and it is *conducted by* them. They determine what is the right manner in which to conduct their experiments, they figure out how to determine what is valid in terms of proofs. Their findings, to be valid, must relate to the actual nature of things, to reality. But then, being humans, scientists must consider what all of this "means" to us, or about us, upon reflection. If after a time, scientists have come to depend on the "scientific method" (as established by other scientists in the past) to determine what they shall do, how they should proceed, and have given up on doing some of their own current reasoning on methodologies; if they are not sensitive to the meaning or validity of what they do, then this would be to say that it is "science" which is at fault when they inflict torture, for example, rather than those individuals who engage in those experiments. But this is like the tail wagging the dog, or like the typical Nazi excuse that "the State made me do it": "Science determined that the experiment had to be conducted this way, in order to achieve true knowledge; I had no choice." I say it is the scientist who makes the science immoral, if it be judged to be so, not vice-versa. As for the concept of morality, which I'm sure will be the next controversy brought up by someone: It is a difficult thing to pin down what morality/immorality is, because because it is an abstract concept which requires a comprehensive view on humanity, conscience, and concepts of "goodness", and because it is so mixed up with notions from religion and associations with any number of unrelated ideas and concepts. Generally it can be agreed that someone who liberally and insensitively creates pain and destruction upon humans is not "one of us", psychologically. An educator (Montessori) explained it thus: "Good is life; evil is death; the real distinction is as clear as the words." Anything which goes of the direction of life is good (and moral) while anything which goes in the other direction is of the opposite character. "The 'moral sense' ... is to a great extent the sense of sympathy with our fellows, the comprehension of their sorrows, the sentiment of justice; the lack of these sentiments convulses normal life. We cannot become moral by committing codes and their application to memory, for memory might fail us a thousand times, and the slightest passion might overcome us; criminals, in fact, even when they are most astute and wary students of codes, often violate them; while normal persons, although entirely ignorant of the laws, never transgress them, owing to 'an internal sense which guides them'. " Those who have become insensitive to this internal guidance system are generally dangerous, and risky to be around, even if you don't want to identify their inclinations as "immoral". .. Blanc From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Adam Back Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 09:55:58 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: (fwd) Automating BlackNet Services Message-ID: <199801140147.BAA00399@server.eternity.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Scratch Monkey, a nym, described this BlackNet variant on the eternity list(*), which raises some interesting issues I think. I am currently forwarding eternity discussion backwards and forwards between the lists and adding Cc's on my replies. Adam (*) To subscribe see http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/eternity/ there is a CGI form to subscribe, or send message with body "subscribe eternity" to majordomo@internexus.net. ------- Start of forwarded message ------- To: eternity@internexus.net From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Organization: Replay Associates, L.L.P. Subject: (eternity) Automating BlackNet Services Sender: owner-eternity@internexus.net Precedence: bulk On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, Adam Back wrote: > This suggests that another approach would be to have two classes of > services. Users of high risk documents can put up with 24 hour turn > around, and lower risk documents can be served by an alternate > service, intermediate risk documents can exist by using low risk > resources until detection. Here's a way to do an automated "high risk" server, using many of the same methods as the eternity implementation but with longer delays and more security for the server. For now I am calling this scheme (which is not much more than an automated participant in the BlackNet scheme) ABNS, for Automated BlackNet Server. 1) Server program resides on host with large disk and full news feed. 2) Server program watches alt.anonymous.messages. 3) Alice anonymously posts data to alt.anonymous.messages, in a format similar to eternity documents. However, the data would typicaly be encrypted to the public key(s) of the 4) Server notices the message, processes it and stores the data. 5) Bob anonymously posts a request for a document to alt.anonymous.messages. 6) Server notices the request, and anonymously posts a public key to alt.anonymous.messages along with a statement that the requested document is available. 7) Bob notices the post from the server, and anonymously posts a second request to alt.anonymous.messages, this time encrypted with the server's public key. This second request could include Bob's public key. 8) The server notices and decrypts the second request, and anonymously posts the requested document to alt.anonymous.messages, encrypted with Bob's public key if one was provided. The reason for steps 6 and 7 are to prevent multiple servers from responding to the same request with (potentialy) very large files. Of course, if Bob knew the data was available from a particular ABNS, he could skip steps 5 and 6. Both the client and server software should be trivial to write, and in fact I am working on that now. The server is partially written, but I am at a handicap because I do not have access to usenet at this time. If anyone knows of some canned code (preferably sh or c, but perl would work) that will perform functions such as "Retrieve list of articles in newsgroup x" and "Retrieve article number y", a pointer would be nice. So far, this is not too exciting, but the addition of a couple of extra technologies could make it very usefull... If the "Steganographic File System" being proposed by Ross Anderson comes to fruition, the ABNS could recieve a filename and password as part of each submission, and then promptly 'forget' them. In this way, not only does the server not have access to the contents of the file, it doesn't even know what files it has! Retrieval requests would include the appropriate information to enable the server to fetch the data. The addition of digital cash to the picture would make it really viable, because the server could charge for storage, or retrieval, or both. So picture this: Alice has some data she wants to sell. She encrypts this data to the public key of an ABNS, along with the filename and password to be used for file access and an amount of cash sufficient to pay for storage costs for maybe 6 months. She would also specify a 'value' for the data, which the ABNS will charge for access to this data and of which Alice will recieve a cut. She could also send a small advertisement (for which here storage fees should be minimal) as a separate document, and give it a value of zero. The server decrypts the message and verifies the cash. It then stores the file in the designated filename/password location in the SFS (stego file system). It makes a hash of the filename/password, and stores this hash in a 'table of contents' file that would also contain: - - the 'paid-until' date for the data. - - the public key of the submitter. - - the 'price' for the data It would then forget the filename and password. Bob learns of the existance of the data (how? I haven't thought about that yet but it doesn't seem to me that it would present much of a problem) and wishes to purchase it. He sends a message to the server by encrypting to the server's public key and posting to alt.anonymous.messages. In his message he includes the filename/password of the data he wants, along with an appropriate amount of cash and Bob's public key. The server decrypts Bob's request: - - First, it pockets the cash. (Everything else is just to keep customers) - - It then creates a hash based on the filename/password of the data that Bob is requesting. - - It looks up that hash in the table of contents file. - - If it is not found, it anonymously posts a message encrypted to Bob's public key indicating that the data is not available, but that Bob now has a line of credit at this particular ABNS. :) - - If it _does_ find the hash in the contents file, it checks the paid-until date. - - If the file is not paid up, the server treats it as if the file were not present (and in fact, it deletes the file at this time, something it could not do without the filename/password that Bob supplied). - - If the file is present, and storage fees are paid up, and Bob has enclosed enough cash (or has enough credit), the ABNS accesses the file in the stego filesystem and anon-posts it to Bob's public key. - - The server then forgets the filename/password, but remembers the hash. - - Of the 'fee' collected from Bob, the server allocates it as follows: - 70% is kept. - 10% is credited to the hash retrieved by Bob, to extend it's "Paid up" time. This means that documents that bring in a lot of money can pay for thier own storage costs, without the contributer needing to keep paying. - 20% is encrypted to the public key listed in the table of contents and posted to alt.anonymous.messages, as a royalty to the contributor. Of course, this is just one possible policy for the server to have. Market forces will shape the eventual pricing scheme. I'm actualy not sure if such a system would be used, because Alice may have no motivation to send her data to an ABNS when she can run the server herself and take 100% of the money. Comments on this aspect of operation would be appreciated. Either way, the same software could be used. I hope to post initial versions within a couple of weeks, assuming I can hack myself some account with nntp access for testing. -Scratch Monkey- 85d8e7d860504ba9e90527e7e89210d7 This is a new persistant nym. PGP key(s) will be posted soon, and I will verify that the keys belong to the same person who posted this message by providing the string that produces the md5 hash above. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 17:55:30 +0800 To: Bill Stewart Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 10:20 PM -0800 1/13/98, Bill Stewart wrote: >Consider the Nazi studies done on human susceptibility to freezing, >poisons, torture, etc., and the followon work done by various >evil empires. Some of it was just done for fun, >but some of it _was_ real science, with hypotheses and experiments, >and there's only so much research you can do into the >resistence of the body to serious damage without actually >damaging live bodies, most accidental damage to human bodies >isn't done in sufficiently instrumented environments to be useful, >and it's just _damn_ hard to get good volunteers these days. >Did most of that work rate as "immoral science" - I'd say so. I think it's an error to use "moral" or "immoral" as a modifier for "science." It's a matter of opinion/ethics as to whether some science is "for immoral purposes," but calling something "immoral science" is fraught with trouble. To a vegetarian, any science related to meat production is "immoral science." To a devout pacifist, any science related to weapons in any way is "immoral science." To an Orthodox Jew, any science done on the Sabbath is "immoral science." To a Communist, any science which refutes scientific socialism is "immoral science." To the Catholic Church, circa 1500, any science which challenged the earth-centric view was "immoral science." Personally, I don't view scientific experiments done on condemned prisoners as immoral. If a human being has already been sentenced to die, and, for example, accepts some payment (perhaps for his heirs) to die in some scientifically interesting way, why call it "immoral"? While I would not have, I hope, worked in a Nazi death camp, the science obtained is undeniably real science, some of the only solid data we have on freezing humans, on exposing them to pathogens, etc. (BTW, there are those who believe using placebos in experiments involving life-threatening situations (like diseases) is "immoral science." I view it as a necessary way to do science in this arena. So long as the patients are informed as to the protocol, and understand they may randomly end up in the placebo group, I have no problems. Nonetheless, the fact that some or all in the control group will die in the experiment is deemed by some to be "immoral.") --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 11:17:42 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Rincin AP Message-ID: <199801140309.EAA12439@basement.replay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Forward from Terrorism list: From: JCHV72A@prodigy.com (MR JAMES P DENNEY) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 19:45:44, -0500 To: TERRORISM@mediccom.org Subject: RICIN ALERT Bureau of Narcotic Enforcement Merced/Mariposa Narcotic Task Force RE: RICIN Alert The Sacramento Regional Office of the Bureau of Narcotic Enforcement has offered this alert to all it's personnel: "The following alert has been confirmed and is being shared throughout the law enforcement and intelligence community. This alert advises that nationwide trend among drug traffickers is to "bait" law enforcement officers with a white powder called RICIN. RICIN is a derivative of Castor beans and looks like powder methamphetamine. It is highly toxic and if it contacts human skin, it is fatal. The death process takes several days, depending upon the dosage, and is almost impossible to detect during an autopsy. Forensic experts advise that if you field test RICIN in the Scott Reagent Kit, it will foam and bubble extensively. The test will also produce a gas that is very similar to mustard gas and can also be lethal if inhaled. RICIN is 6,000 times more lethal than cyanide and there is no antidote. Symptoms of contact exposure to RICIN are: Fever, cough, weakness, and hypothermia, progressing to dangerously low blood pressure, heart failure and death. Due to this situation, in the event of suspect drug seziures, do not come into direct skin contact with any powdered substances, and exhibit caution of field testing any powdered substances." We are forwarding this advisory to all California EMS Agencies and recommend that each agency contact the local hospitals in their area. We are unaware if RICIN can be detected on a toxicological exam. There is a potential for someone, other than law enforcement, to become contaminated with this substance. ----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: The Sheriff Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 18:33:12 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: Spam In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >Losing third-party relay is rather a shame - the Internet used to >be a cooperative system where everybody tried to get mail through, >and avoiding third-party relay is more complex if your users >have lots of different domain names (e.g. www.foo.com hosted at >bigisp.net). It also pushes the net more in the direction of >all mail needing to have True Names, which is a Bad Thing, >and decreases robustness of the overall system. [snip] >Another approach to reducing spam is of course to keep contacting >ISPs to kill off bad users, and to get ISPs to refuse spamhauses >as customers. I do see the validity of your argument, and I do agree about forcing everybody to have a "True Name" to not necessarily be a good thing. Then again, a few years ago the marketing industry (if it may be called that) had no idea the "wealth" they could produce by using the Internet for relatively cheap advertising. I love Eudora for a very simple reason: the simplicity of the filters offered in even the free version. While the simplicity also bars complex filters that take care of a bunch of e-mail in one pop, it does allow for layering. I have various levels in my filtering system: content- based, like filtering for PGP messages, stupid crap from Vulis or threads I don't feel like following. Next comes the To: filters -- I've got a number of different e-mail boxes, each with its own purpose. If I get mail auto-forwarded from any of my secondary accounts, it falls through these filters and is dropped into the correct folders. After that come the sender-based filters. If there is mail for me from an anonymous source that is not addressed to me, and doesn't contain content that interests me, it's dropped into the trash. Then all the mail from persistant spam domains that I allready know about gets thrown in the trash. If any mail comes FROM a mailing list, instead of being sent TO a mailing list, it's the next to go. After all that, I filter the To: line for all my mailing lists, and each bit of mail is sent into the correct folder as above. After all that rot, if the mail in question doesn't contain my address in the To: or Cc: lines (except recipient list repressed mail, which is sometimes interesting), it too is dropped into my *SPAM folder and the subject is changed accordingly, which then wraps up 99% of all the spam that I receive, and I forward the headers to the appropriate ISPs. There is a "simple" solution to this, and it isn't government legislation. If spammers want to be smart about it and AVOID legislation by power-hungry politicians, all they have to do is subscribe to spam ISPs that are set up for the express purpose of spamming. It doesn't matter how many of them are out there, really, or what mailing lists are abused: those who are receptive to spam will respond, and those of us who hate spam can set up blacklists that detail all the spam ISPs that we encounter, and circulate those lists. It then becomes insanely easy to receive no more than ONE message from each spam ISP (they could create a new domain tag, .spm), and everybody's happy. If the spammers would be smart enough to put the effort into creating such a network, much as we have, for discussing issues that matter to us, then they would be in a lot less trouble, and fewer people would be calling for their heads. Or am I wrong? :) Best wishes and fresh-roasted peanut taste, The Sheriff. -- ****** - --- As kinky as it sounds, finger me to see my PGP key and confirm the signature attached to this message. Either that, or head for pgp.ai.mit.edu on the WWW and search for my e-mail address. - --- Any and all SPAM will be met with immediate prosecutory efforts. Solicitations are NOT welcome here! - --- ----BEGIN INFLAMATORY BLOCK---- Version: 160 (IQ) Comments: Definitely one of their greatest misses. Reporter: "Do you know what Public Enemy is?" - --- Citizen: "Public enemy?" [long pause] "Probably somebody in office." -----END INFLAMATORY BLOCK----- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBNLyC+gBMw4+NR29ZAQGhowf/f35tihuAl6b+IH8FD7P4dGQR9+t1JKwq rt7CT7eYrJ7ZJ2KO/YZlmufVmaeVGac0eN4MkrjHj8TIvAMKtxegWnmd0GLmp+cI QUwuVGKN2Fab6sxvQjwKaLDPjgQFSBiOS6Rsm8jnSstPbtD/dmgcEf2+svW+edXH oivyKeSF0VcdCcYPDX/+sRiKKbB8ZdMimAqNuIEboGQjOIMLVkwnWsxKQH+XIw3/ fdBOAEPLNj0Tz6R2v3W2XLgewZsmJpjELoZl7ZYYNpdm5h6h80JdXCoC6vOSDsEu ATwsvvRQw0wcKvgB0fsBhpO9u0KdHk0NYuPr2i/Z9oxoMbo8h7hoZQ== =OfnS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: The Sheriff Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 18:32:07 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: Freedom Forum report (freedom of association) In-Reply-To: <19971226.145900.12766.0.Lord_Buttmonkey@juno.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >These arguments are all smoke and mirrors unless we figure >out where authority lies (? ;-) With the people of this country. There that was simple. :) >As far as I'm concerned freedom of association is implied by >freedom of assembly. To assemble in this context obviously >means to associate. If it doesn't, then what the hell is it? >To come together in order to work things out? Is that >association? In the context of assembling for commerce, >commerce is just assembling and agreeing on the terms of >free association. Okay, my point was simply that an assumed right shouldn't HAVE to be implied under the existing constitution. Either we have to find a way to list all our freedoms at once and then guarantee them definitively, or we have to not guarantee them on paper, so as to not LIMIT them TO paper. I'm assuming that the bill of rights was written in this spirit -- our forefathers listed and guaranteed all of our rights that had been previously contested by King George. I can only assume that they had no idea the kind of civil war they would start over rights that they didn't see as being threatened but must (in today's world) be guaranteed by law in order to be valid. I mean, hell how to you spell out the right to privacy in leagalese, in one paragraph? You can't, not in today's society. Everybody's definition has a different spin, and all of the ones based on common sense are correct. >The authority of a Supreme Court was challenged by Thomas >Jefferson, who speculated that if such a court were the >ultimate arbiter of justice, then a tyranny of the judiciary >would follow. Nine judges, appointed for life, who therefore never run for election (even though they are selected and confirmed by elected officials). Whomever chooses them influences the political philosophy driving that court for years and years after their term of office has expired. I entirely agree with Thomas Jefferson. Interestingly enough, the constitution doesn't say a damn thing about "judicial review." It was a power that the supreme court granted unto itself, something that the court itself would challange if either of the other two branches of government tried that... Personally, I think the voters should decide exactly what the supreme court can do (since it's rather vaguely defined in the constitution), and then give themselves to vote on who will be put in those nine chairs. >So who ultimately judges? I should think having a federal >body judge the constitutional limitations of the federal >government is an obvious conflict of interest. I think the idea behind it all was to say that, in putting nine judges in the highest court and giving them lifetime terms, they then have the ability to make decisions without facing the wrath of the other two brances. You're correct, however. A man who represents himself in a court of law has a fool for a client, and this holds true for the Fed. >In any case, >anyone willing to read the constitution and do just a little >bit of homework will find out that the constitution is a >*limitation* of the powers of the federal government, not a >broad grant. Thank you, thank you! :) >[little know fact: Earl Warren, noted Supreme Court >"Justice" was the designer of the Japanese-American Prison >camps in the US during WWII] I didn't know that. >Before someone starts spouting off on "our living >constitution"(TM) someone please tell me why they didn't >strike out the conflicting parts of the constitution when >they "grew" it? Something like "amendments number one, two, >five, nine and ten should be amended to read "unless we say >otherwise". Alterations of public law almost always specify >the previous laws that are struck down. In fact, if memory >serves, the repeal of prohibition specifically alters the >amendment that created it. Actually, I think the "unless we say so" clause is allready in there, in most if not all ammendments (unless I'm mistaken). It reads something to the effect of Congress having the athority to draft any and all laws that assist in the upholding of whatever part of the constitution that the clause is included in. I think it's called the "elastic clause," if memory serves me correctly (where's my copy of the constitution that has all the $2 bills with the signing of the declaration of independance on the back stuffed into the middle?!). >(It is left as an excercise to the reader to figure out why >prohibition needed an amendment to the constitution while >prohibition of other mind altering substances did not ;-) I think what happened was that the prohibition ammendent was drafted in the "do MORE good!" days following the United State's successes in the first world war. A time of "good feelings" was in effect, and since the evil Germans had been stamped out, folks figured that stamping out other evils was also a good thing. How ironic that the repealing ammendment immediately followed the woman's sufferage ammendment. It's like the country woke up from a bad hangover... >Have a day. Allways do. :) Best wishes and fresh-roasted peanut taste, The Sheriff. -- ****** - --- As kinky as it sounds, finger me to see my PGP key and confirm the signature attached to this message. Either that, or head for pgp.ai.mit.edu on the WWW and search for my e-mail address. - --- Any and all SPAM will be met with immediate prosecutory efforts. Solicitations are NOT welcome here! - --- ----BEGIN INFLAMATORY BLOCK---- Version: 160 (IQ) Comments: Definitely one of their greatest misses. Reporter: "Do you know what Public Enemy is?" - --- Citizen: "Public enemy?" [long pause] "Probably somebody in office." -----END INFLAMATORY BLOCK----- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBNLyDBQBMw4+NR29ZAQHRuAf/VijkwXb/H2uXRuObeNsAdpgysKmMvEWr 1ufctl9e+BtbeByLLLmH22qudsl76xrVA5EHq8qHOHixZQTDayb7lfeTBHBwnrkI Z79ZT5EUyjIBM6V6Iad2Qtit7ePkeGG52UqKYU1cbruEQkyM4FZc2js2kbG/uky6 53+ez/wvdBYwIbB8PnTRkrE8ZDC+21hHFH+5Aw4wSRP0cyHfslu8uWg4DM1O2car VQqxvy1XYEKv3uXoF/l8v/iw3kAwXpaJzhViEnOAuli21nVip8xa+3zG+sMyY4Gg us8wvVeqqNANNu8WG9WAUqV0OmGaWObNC6QGnVOqBGoKulmoDFFdjw== =Fsmr -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Anonymous Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 20:14:36 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: No Subject Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Timmy May's 16Kb brain's single convolution is directly wired to his rectum for input and his T1 mouth for output. That's 16K bits, not bytes. Anal intercourse has caused extensive brain damage. \ o/\_ Timmy May <\__,\ '\, | From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Ryan Lackey Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 21:51:34 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: how to release code if the programmer is a target for coercion Message-ID: <199801141341.IAA29112@the-great-machine.mit.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Tim May brought this issue up recently -- if someone develops a greatest- thing-since-sliced-bread Eternity package, then releases it. it's pretty likely that they will eventually be approached by (mi6/mossad/CIA/KCIA/etc.). What's likely to happen? Certainly they could kill you. They could make it look like random street crime, or an accident, or kill you with #16 000 in your pocket just to make it clear what their reasons were (Gerald Bull, Mossad, London, .32acp). At best, you could force them to make it very obvious it was murder, by having paranoid levels of security, but they could still kill you. If they kill the programmer (s/programmer/programmers, or just enough that the project becomes disorganized, etc.), that at worst will keep new releases of the software from coming out. At least until another group starts working on things, assuming protocols and/or source are public. Perhaps that new group would be a front for the NSA, though. A risk. More likely, they'd try to coerce you. This could include threats of death, which are best responded to by ignoring them, since they don't gain anything if they kill you. Or torture, which is equally ineffective if they kill you. Or slander/etc. to try to discredit you. (unlikely to work at least among cypherpunks, in the absence of technical attacks as well). Most likely, they would try to buy you. This could be by outright offering money for back doors, which would be great if it worked, but is unlikely to happen in the first place. If offered a bribe, you could go public with that fact (preferably after taking the money :), and worst case publically distance yourself from the project. More likely, they could try to infiltrate the technical team covertly, or ask for features which happen to be non-public security compromises, perhaps under the guise of security improvements (this presumes they are beyond the state of the art). WOrst case, one can say that if the intelligence community is far beyond the state of the art, you have no chance at protecting against covertly modified source code, modified to break in a subtle way which is not known to the general community. However, the world is already in this position -- if they solved the DLP, or even knew of subtle bugs in a processor, or whatever, tools would already be weak. Assuming the intelligence community is not so advanced that thorough inspection by the world at large won't reveal back doors or weaknesses, the solution is code review by the public. It was brought up that verifying PGP was just about at the limit of the world's capability. I agree that it is certainly beyond the level of one person, or even a small group, to verify -- plus, you want code verified by enough non-interacting entities that it is unlikely they can all be bought. I was looking around for a solution to this -- Lenny Foner at the MIT Media lab has something for his agents project which might be a solution. A system by which sections of source code are verified by individuals, signed, other sections are verified by others, etc. Then, during compilation, you could say something like "all of the security critical code must be verified by at least one of these 12 people, everything else by at least 5 people per section in this list of distinct people". It would then show where the "threadbare" sections are, and you could optionally verify them yourself, have someone else verify them for money, or post to cypherpunks asking for help. Security critical code should be encapsulated fairly well anyway -- I'd feel a lot worse about having a bug in such a part of my code than a screen refresh bug. One could potentially limit unintended side effects by running security code on its own processor, in its own sandbox, or just use a different instance of the JVM to run it. I think technical means can solve the problem of source code review and intelligence community rubber hose tactics. (preferably they'll still be handing out free money anyway, though) -- Ryan Lackey rdl@mit.edu http://mit.edu/rdl/ From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 22:48:06 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: Talk of Banning Research into Human Cloning (fwd) Message-ID: <199801141503.JAA00917@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 12:31:04 +0000 (GMT) > From: "David E. Smith" > Subject: Re: Talk of Banning Research into Human Cloning (fwd) > > I wonder if it is the intention of those who support a ban on human cloning > > to prevent my friend who lost his forearm in the Vietnam War from having a > > new one grown and attached? > > Yup. Unless there's some remarkable breakthrough, you can't just grow an > eyeball, or a kidney, or whatever. You've gotta grow the whole body. In > time, we might be able to genegineer the process for optimal production of > the targeted body part, likely with all sorts of side effects that would > be, er, detrimental in a "real" person. Actualy, at least according to one episode of that show on TDC that Skully form the X-Files hosts, there are several groups who are working on just this thing. One female researcher has extended the life of worms (admittedly a step or two from humans) by 7 times with no apparent effect. There was a piece on CNN late last nite about some researchers discussing this as well. Their estimate is that it would be at least 5 years before there would be anything available on the open market. There is also at least two groups working on growing specific organs. One group (the one interviewed on the TDC show) is using plastic forms to grow the organs in. They can apparently grow small samples of specific cells and are looking at how to organize the growth of more complex structures such as a kidney which would include blood-vessels and such. I am sorry I don't know the name of the show. If somebody out there does please speak up. My prediction is that within 15 years there will be methods to extend human life by at least a factor of 3 and techniques to replace every organ or structure with the persons own cells (thus alleviating all tissue rejection problems) through accellerated growth mechanism based on cloning in such a way that cancer, accidents, etc. will become at best temporary tragedies. In short, unless you get your head or entire torso squished there will be methods to keep people alive for periods approaching 200 years. Further, these techniques will be available through standard insurance via your employer because they will be low cost (that's the nice thing about bio-science). ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 23:08:01 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: how to release code if the programmer is a target for coercion (fwd) Message-ID: <199801141532.JAA01028@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Subject: how to release code if the programmer is a target for coercion > Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 08:41:16 EST > From: Ryan Lackey > Tim May brought this issue up recently -- if someone develops a greatest- > thing-since-sliced-bread Eternity package, then releases it. it's pretty > likely that they will eventually be approached by (mi6/mossad/CIA/KCIA/etc.). > > What's likely to happen? > > Certainly they could kill you. They could make it look like random street > crime, or an accident, or kill you with #16 000 in your pocket just to make > it clear what their reasons were (Gerald Bull, Mossad, London, .32acp). Actualy they killed Bull before he could complete his Super-Gun design and get it built. There is no point to be had in killing the designer after the fact except to advertise their accomplishment except to prevent future work by that person. > More likely, they'd try to coerce you. This could include threats of death, > which are best responded to by ignoring them, since they don't gain anything > if they kill you. Or torture, which is equally ineffective if they kill you. > Or slander/etc. to try to discredit you. (unlikely to work at least among > cypherpunks, in the absence of technical attacks as well). This seems to have worked with several of the programmers at The L0pht (l0pht.com) because of their legal problems. Seems they now do work for the DoJ and other groups in return the various charges that were pending against them were dropped (or at least put on hold). > Most likely, they would try to buy you. This could be by outright offering > money for back doors, which would be great if it worked, but is unlikely to > happen in the first place. L0phtCrack is one of the major NT cracking/testing tools currently used by folks. And no, I am not implying it has been compromised only pointing out that because of the relationship of some of the programmers to law enforcement it could have been. I am not aware of the exact timing of the agreement, development, and release of the software. > If offered a bribe, you could go public with > that fact (preferably after taking the money :), Then everyone would want proof and if you couldn't produce it they would simply label you a nutcase. You probably would have mysterious accident after that sort of behaviour. Besides, even if you were to prove it - could you trust the witness protection process? > I was looking around for a solution to this -- Lenny Foner at the MIT > Media lab has something for his agents project which might be a solution. > A system by which sections of source code are verified by individuals, > signed, other sections are verified by others, etc. Then, during If the agents could infiltrate the development team what keeps them from mounting a mitm attack on the people doing the signing? ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Steve Mynott Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 17:59:01 +0800 To: Jim Choate Subject: Re: 1st sign of a closed mind... In-Reply-To: <199801131723.LAA27648@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <19980114095040.44123@tightrope.demon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Tue, Jan 13, 1998 at 11:23:07AM -0600, Jim Choate wrote: > "I won't listen to that because ...." The signature file is too long and contains lame ascii? :) -- Steve From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 23:37:09 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: (eternity) Covert Superhighway - the missing component? (fwd) Message-ID: <199801141553.JAA01099@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 12:41:53 GMT > From: Adam Back > Subject: Re: (eternity) Covert Superhighway - the missing component? > - post to random newsgroups, use textual mimic functions, send > decryption keys after the stegoed data has been distributed to > disguise data until it is too late to affect distribution Isn't this going to increase latency and increase the likelihood of both sureptitious attacks (I notice the request in newsgroup A and begin putting my mitm requests in the other newsgroups - the odds being that I will get the data and then forward to the original recipient with small changes) as well as must plain missing the request? > - become a spammer, or employ some spammers. Spammers use the hit and > run approach with disposable accounts; with sufficient availability > of accounts, and the economic incentive they seem to flourish in > spite of intense displeasure of recipients. Be shure to pay with cash and use an anonymous name and address. Considering the cost of accounts this could be quite expensive. Many services do provide the first 2 weeks free or similar features. I predict that should this model be put into practice at a very broad level the ISP's won't give the free trial-periods to anonymous accounts. > - video signals: live porn shows, one on one "chat live to our model, > she will do anything you ask, blah, blah" -- high volume, easy > target for stego, plausible reasons for anonymity Is this going to be a live model or a VR relicant? If it is a live model then it should be relatively trivial to determine that persons identification and location. Another question that comes up is how many strippers are going to participate in this if they know the consequences? It's one thing to spend the night or a few weeks in the tank, a whole nother thing to spend years in there. > - subliminal channels in the TCP/IP and IPSEC protocols. Someone > posted a reference for an implementation of some subliminal channels > in the linux TCP/IP stack. These still have to show up in the actual packets and are open to sniffer attacks. Also, the individual packets can be traced from router to router. Lot's of blind alleys but you'll get there eventualy. > When people can buy a T1 to their house for Ł2,000/yr instead of > Ł20,000, we will stand a better chance. SWBT will currently sell T1 access to homes for as little as $214/mo. Would you settle for $2,568/yr.? Note that this price doesn't include routing and name resolution. I'm still (3 months later) trying to get SWBT to tell me how much they will charge for this - they supposedly offer it but I have yet to find an actual business office that support home delivery of service. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Ross Anderson Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 18:06:02 +0800 To: eternity@internexus.net Subject: Covert Superhighway - the missing component? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Scratch Monkey proposes building an Eternity service using the Stego File System, provided an anonymous broadcast channel exists - it's assumed that alt.anonymous.messages will do the job. I suspect that wide deployment of Eternity would lead to this group being closed down. We need a more robust anonymous broadcast channel. Let's call it the `Covert Superhighway'. How do we build it? Ross From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 23:51:30 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Cellular fountain of youth found [CNN] Message-ID: <199801141611.KAA01182@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > SCIENTISTS DISCOVER CELLULAR 'FOUNTAIN OF YOUTH' > > Cell/slide Adding the telomerase enzyme keeps cells alive and > dividing In this story: > * Enzyme helps cells avoid aging, death > * Stock in biotech company skyrockets > * Telomeres grow back > * 'It will totally transform genetic engineering' > * Related stories and sites > > January 13, 1998 > Web posted at: 8:55 p.m. EST (0155 GMT) > > WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Researchers at the University of Texas > Southwestern Medical Center say they have discovered a cellular > "fountain of youth" that enables human cells to avoid normal aging > and cell death. > > The finding won't make people any younger or allow them to live > forever, but the researchers say it could keep them healthier > longer. [text deleted] ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Ray Arachelian Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 23:58:45 +0800 To: Tim May Subject: Re: Eternity Services In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Sun, 11 Jan 1998, Tim May wrote: > The CD-ROM distribution is just a side aspect, to get some set of data > widely dispersed. For example, if the data base is of "abortion" or > "euthanasia" information (a la Hemlock Society), which various parties want > suppressed, then handing out freebie CD-ROMs is one step. > > Many examples of this: Samizdats in Russia, crypto/PGP diskettes handed out > at conferences (was Ray Arachelian doing this several years ago?), and > various religious and social tracts. Obviously, this is what broadsheets > and fliers are designed to do. Self-publishing in general. Yep. I gave them out at trade shows such as PC Expo. What I found best was to dump a stack of them on a common table area. These expos usually do have public machines for users to login and check email (horrible idea in terms of security!), or surf. CD's would be better suited for this of course. Another idea is to include hidden archives or pieces of archives in the stuff we distribute. Have you signature be a piece of a big archives and post different pieces daily. If you write shareware, etc. include inactive files with the distribution, perhaps stegoing pieces in any images (setup screens, logos, etc...) > If the intent is to collect money for the data base accesses, then of > course other considerations come into play. You could always give the media away then charge a fee for unlocking it. Many companies already do this. (see www.warehouse.com and go to download warehouse from there.) You can download a package which is unlocked only when you give them a credit card number. The unlocking key is RSA based... There are also spam based free web sites out there where anyone can get a web page if they agree to have the provider provide a spam bar ad. You could easily get dozens of these on various providers and hide bits of the info there. > (* I say "working" in the sense that the concept was very easy to > demonstrate just by using PGP and remailers. Not much more than what I > demonstrated in 1993 would be needed to deploy a real system. Except for > one thing: true digital cash. Not the bullshit one-way-traceable stuff that > Chaum and others are now pushing, but the original, online-cleared or > escrow-cleared form, a la the work of Goldberg et. al. For some of these > applications, below, simple token- or coupon-based schemes might work > adequately.) For that to happen, alternate banks must exist first, or at least alternate ecconomies with some way to translate inbetween. I doubt many governments will allow this. Heck, our city government is taking to ticketing jaywalkers now, if they're getting this vicious on the city level, think at the Fed level they'll let this happen? Perhaps something like a swiss bank might be able/willing to do the exchange. > Yep, it's hard to disagree with this. Any centralized "Eternity service" > will be hit with various kinds of attacks in quick order. The biggest problem to this will be the 'let kiddies posting whole CDROMS of pirated stuff to the sites, this will certainly eat up all the space on the servers and make them more liable to raids. Heck, if the kiddies don't take to this, the spooks will pretend to be kiddies and do the same. The biggest problem though will be replicating the haven throughout the world so that the whole haven will be at a point where it can't be easily shut down, even if one or two go down. How many servers do we have so far? =====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos============== .+.^.+.| Ray Arachelian |Prying open my 3rd eye. So good to see |./|\. ..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were |/\|/\ <--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run |\/|\/ ../|\..| "A toast to Odin, |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/. .+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were.... |..... ======================= http://www.sundernet.com ========================== From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Ian Sparkes Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 18:11:49 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: TLS implementations In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980114105954.006bf470@q9f47.dmst02.telekom.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 00:31 14.01.98 -0500, Anonymous wrote: >Don't you know the place where there is anyone >TLS implementations (source code)? >Teach to me if it is here because it is known. >Thank you very much. > What is this thing which before me I see? Lo! 'Tis a herald from Nobochookie-san! Is it? Or is it just someone posing as he? For he speaks in riddles to cover his plan... (Things are a bit slow here today - you might have guessed) -- \!!/ ( o o ) +------ooO--(_)--Ooo-+----------------------------------------------------+ | .oooO | PGP5 Key Fingerprint: | | ( ) Oooo. | 1F59 CADC 951E ADAD 5EA5 9544 FCCE 8E30 4988 551E | | \ ( ( ) | Crypto Kong signature below | | \__) ) / | | | (__/ |"Ian.Sparkes(at)T-Online.de" "Ian.Sparkes(at)ac.com"| | |"isparkes(at)q9f47.dmst02.telekom.de" | | | Life empiricist and confused ethical hedonist | | | | +--------------------+----------------------------------------------------+ | I'm not your lawer, you're not my client. This is therefore not advice | +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ --digsig Ian Sparkes 2u5Nfae28E97i3Q6GXCKjyVMc01IoVPE20AcNwVhVHv 1mCAElQ4Pnn2mXI1zRafFJRqWDlUWFOf2Km4nT8O 4ddYACfzVy8hIx+JU/Nde/oQmwHEF6zEeBY6LshYI From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: ? the Platypus {aka David Formosa} Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 10:05:13 +0800 To: Tim May Subject: Re: (eternity) Re: mirroring services, web accounts for ecash In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On Mon, 12 Jan 1998, Tim May wrote: [...] > And I think implementing the slower-but-no-breakthroughs approach (Blacknet > or variations) has some advantages. It may be many years before we need to > be in the corner of the graph that is "large amounts of data--very fast > retrieval--very secure." > > Most candidates for untraceable/secure storage and retrieval are NOT in > this corner, yet. (Kiddie porn may be, but whistleblowing and scientific > information are not.) You know, I think we have been missing one use for eternerty services. Its a cheap reliable off site backup system. You simply encrypt your data, and throw it into the system. In addtion a large number of comperise useing the system like this will become a type of hostage against interference. - -- Please excuse my spelling as I suffer from agraphia see the url in my header. Never trust a country with more peaple then sheep. ex-net.scum and proud You Say To People "Throw Off Your Chains" And They Make New Chains For Themselves? --Terry Pratchett. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBNLwHFKQK0ynCmdStAQE9MQP/WZitSpCzVnx/rYX9qvkf80ZapgE1bws4 MjSmkI5tVpEg5uJ2Rqq5lb6xBzMPUtJ9jgBsUyAcYOH07k8Ycg5NW3UYrnQVNiz4 /h7qENmAjmErONhIZBN+NYd69q/v7q+d3WyQTJif74k5T0cwrfHagnzbWcusNYYt 4iA/pO1SCHU= =oTNd -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: ? the Platypus {aka David Formosa} Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 10:22:32 +0800 To: Ryan Lackey Subject: Re: (eternity) autonomous agents In-Reply-To: <199801131244.HAA22857@the-great-machine.mit.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, Ryan Lackey wrote: > I believe the web or the internet as a whole > are now large and important enough to Joe Sixpack that shutting them off > to stop illegal activity is infeasible -- I do not agree that USENET > is. I think 2 weeks of press in the US about "USENET, the network used > by kiddie porn photographers to trade photos, must be shut down" would be > enough to shut usenet in the US down. I beleave that this is quite unlikely. Usenet is infact bigger then the internet as a whole. Shutting down usenet would be a difficalt task, how are you going to convinvince all thouse peaple who like usenet to give it up. In fact how are you going to convinve copernise like zippo and altoba who are dedcated to providing usenet connectiverty to give up there primery money sorce. - -- Please excuse my spelling as I suffer from agraphia see the url in my header. Never trust a country with more peaple then sheep. ex-net.scum and proud You Say To People "Throw Off Your Chains" And They Make New Chains For Themselves? --Terry Pratchett. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBNLwLyqQK0ynCmdStAQFOuwP+LpitV9bYaMMSvcMN7PkLX+UfpsPnoCwH mNGueb3UV2Nf4h692SFcwy+bYrLhQRU0pZMuk3INNpUuVQ2CERBa29aSNfas9OiD e7u8LHziHH6c9wuwLpTf4ZbZ3cxvhkXHnWSaM/IPJ+pdlvJBd5koiFHyqmxLsLwF uok0uXOGkaQ= =C5IV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: ? the Platypus {aka David Formosa} Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 10:32:51 +0800 To: Thomas Womack Subject: Re: (eternity) autonomous agents In-Reply-To: <01bd2037$68046310$409001a3@mc64.merton.ox.ac.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, Thomas Womack wrote: > I suspect you will still run into things which are illegal anywhere; For eggample? Rembour, alot illegality is about cultural hangups and tabbos. Which change when thay are in diffrent contexts. [...] >I don't think (eg) the more extreme sort > of kiddyporn is legal *anywhere*. I beleave that there are places where the distrabution of child porn is legal even if its production isn't. - -- Please excuse my spelling as I suffer from agraphia see the url in my header. Never trust a country with more peaple then sheep. ex-net.scum and proud You Say To People "Throw Off Your Chains" And They Make New Chains For Themselves? --Terry Pratchett. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBNLwOBaQK0ynCmdStAQFbCQQAhi+blZZvPbAPjvUSLaQdH9bmyPnfwEn1 ePTcGdHR80qv9j7P9o+WfsvaSWYnKY9pW2HttHbfa5aq09VCS245Q3wwD5e4zGU2 rrqNLT9bP9pimqKsyjcjVS8PoFwXCJPdspjgCDL3zDBhoRwhGyvpljt8ufE4yHsC 3ZO5IKwhVcY= =+4iF -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "David E. Smith" Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 20:37:31 +0800 To: Bill Frantz Subject: Re: Talk of Banning Research into Human Cloning (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > I wonder if it is the intention of those who support a ban on human cloning > to prevent my friend who lost his forearm in the Vietnam War from having a > new one grown and attached? Yup. Unless there's some remarkable breakthrough, you can't just grow an eyeball, or a kidney, or whatever. You've gotta grow the whole body. In time, we might be able to genegineer the process for optimal production of the targeted body part, likely with all sorts of side effects that would be, er, detrimental in a "real" person. Oh, wait, we'll never have the chance to do those studies in the first place. Hope old "lefty" is happy with just one arm. dave From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Adam Back Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 20:52:16 +0800 To: Ross.Anderson@cl.cam.ac.uk Subject: Re: (eternity) Covert Superhighway - the missing component? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801141241.MAA00398@server.eternity.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Ross Anderson > Scratch Monkey proposes building an Eternity service using the Stego > File System, provided an anonymous broadcast channel exists - it's > assumed that alt.anonymous.messages will do the job. > > I suspect that wide deployment of Eternity would lead to this group > being closed down. We need a more robust anonymous broadcast > channel. Let's call it the `Covert Superhighway'. How do we build it? Some ideas: - post to random newsgroups, use textual mimic functions, send decryption keys after the stegoed data has been distributed to disguise data until it is too late to affect distribution - become a spammer, or employ some spammers. Spammers use the hit and run approach with disposable accounts; with sufficient availability of accounts, and the economic incentive they seem to flourish in spite of intense displeasure of recipients. - video signals: live porn shows, one on one "chat live to our model, she will do anything you ask, blah, blah" -- high volume, easy target for stego, plausible reasons for anonymity - subliminal channels in the TCP/IP and IPSEC protocols. Someone posted a reference for an implementation of some subliminal channels in the linux TCP/IP stack. - VR gaming, VR chat rooms with audio, video; this could be a higher bandwidth version of IRC. - Subliminal channels in computer generated random numbers for multi-player internet based games. (Death match doom with subliminal channels, or with audio, video, etc) Not a very super-highway like subliminal network possibly... mostly the internet is not up to real time VR, video chat, etc. for the majority of users at present. Many of the better applications for subliminal channels are currently impractical. When people can buy a T1 to their house for Ł2,000/yr instead of Ł20,000, we will stand a better chance. Adam From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 22:38:45 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com Subject: Re: Don't shoot the messenger (Re: 1 Question to Dr. Froomkin...) (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801140034.SAA30080@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199801141431.PAA03381@basement.replay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Jim Choate writes: > If you want to trust your future to somebody who 'shuts down' > because > somebody says "spin doctor bullshit" or strenously defends their > views be > my guest. Me, I want a MUCH more mature and determined individual > handling > me and my decendants future. I want to experience that strength of > conviction from them not a yellow streak. A 'yellow streak'? This is oh-so-mature, Jim. Especially following your increasingly desperate 'why won't you speak with me, Dr. Froomkin' pleas. Face the facts, Jim: People are kill-filing you because you've been an arrogant, overbearing prick. Learn some manners. Frondeur -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 Charset: noconv iQA/AwUBNLzMAFqnO6WRZ1UEEQL4IQCgwIabisfy9pc4ndS2MEQHVfnRunYAn3O+ 9QZkpV9FmPN8geRZWOeV+lnS =3AXX -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: webmaster@wildauction.com Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 00:46:27 +0800 To: Subject: Apologies Message-ID: <199801141631.IAA58742@rho.ben2.ucla.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Hello, sorry it took so long to respond. First of all our live online auction site, wildauction.com, is up and running. However, we are currently in our final phase of testing. It is open for business but we have done no advertising and our first email list won't go out until this weekend (After the USA today story about it). If you can keep hush hush about it check it out at http://www.wildauction.com . Please note, due to our new SSL features some users (In particular AOL and IE3.x Users), Will have to use the unsecure registration. As a bonus to our first customers we are offering free shipping. You asked about what makes us different from the competition. That's easy! No minimum bids! No Reserve prices! On a dedicated T3! Secure registration! Loaded with computer products! Again, the password protections have been removed so check it out. You might even get a pentium 233MMX for around 40 bucks. (there aren't that many bidders yet :) Thanks, John http://www.wildauction.com From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Rabid Wombat Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 11:46:31 +0800 To: Crisavec Subject: Re: cypherpunks and guns In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980114135342.008c9d80@alaska.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Wed, 14 Jan 1998, Crisavec wrote: > > All I'm saying is that not EVERYONE who collects a government paycheck has > "diminished mental capacity" I know several people with genius level IQ's > that simply don't care where they work....And that's something to remember... > > >> > > >> >The fact that they collect a paycheck from the government is prima facie > >> >evidence of diminished mental capacity. > >> > >> Don't bet on.... > >> > >> > >> There is only one war, and it's not between the whites and the > >> blacks, Labour and the Conservatives, Democrats and Republicans, or > >> the Federation and the Romulans, it's between those of us who aren't ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >> complete idiots and those of us who are. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >> > >> > >Who's side are you on? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > > > > > > --Dave > Some days, it just isn't worth the effort anymore. Sigh. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: bill.stewart@pobox.com Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:39:48 +0800 To: Jim Choate Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980114091307.0089e180@popd.ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 12:45 PM 1/13/98 -0600, Jim Choate wrote: >Do you accept that the Constitution of the United States of America is the >supreme law of the land and therefore the ultimate legal authority within >its borders? Jim - you and I are political theorists, and you're asking a political question, though I'm not sure what kind of question you mean. Froomkin's a law professor, though he's also got political opinions. To a lawyer, the answer is that the Constitution ultimately means whatever you can talk the Supreme Court into saying it means, or whatever you or your opponents can talk a lower court into saying if the court's opinion is strong enough that the loser decides it's not worth spending the resources to appeal, and the Supreme Court has decided all sorts of things over the years depending on the political climate. Many legal and political theorists have opinions about Marbury vs. Madison and the other cases in which the Supreme Court decided that the Constitution said they're the ones who get to decide what the Constitution means; you may have opinions about that, or you could be asking Froomkin what he thinks about it. On the other hand, the Constitution is a political compromise between a bunch of long-dead politicians, in which they offered the public a deal that they'd mostly stick within its limits if they agreed not to ignore or overthrow them. So you could be asking if he thinks it's a good compromise, or you could be asking if he's a Loyal American who agrees not to overthrow or ignore the Constitution (as opposed to one of them pinko Commies), or you could be asking if he's a Loyal American who believes the Government isn't sticking to their end of the bargain and therefore deserves to be overthrown. Or you could be asking a Lysander Spooner question about whether he thinks a bunch of promises made by a bunch of long-dead politicians have any authority over either the politicians or the people today. So which question are you asking, and why? Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: David Honig Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 01:57:55 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: (eternity) autonomous agents In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980114092902.007c09c0@206.40.207.40> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 09:30 PM 1/13/98 EST, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote: > >Is it possible to make it cryptographically hard to determine where >the data is stored? > Eternity. Look it up. ------------------------------------------------------------ David Honig Orbit Technology honig@otc.net Intaanetto Jigyoubu "How do you know you are not being deceived?" ---A Compendium of Analytic TradeCraft Notes, Directorate of Intelligence, CIA http://www.jya.com/cia-notes.htm From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "James A. Donald" Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 05:01:02 +0800 To: Filtered Cypherpunks List Subject: Crypto Kong penetration. Message-ID: <199801142049.MAA02259@proxy4.ba.best.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -- 2 Since release there have been a very large number of hits on the Kong documents, and mere 102 downloads of the program, and 74 downloads of the source code. The large number of source code downloads indicates that I am only reaching the crypto techie audience, that for the most part is already able to use PGP, not the non tech audience that Crypto Kong was designed for. On my web page I have documentation as to how business users can and should use this product. (See the section "contracts and certificates" I and Mather Cromer have prepared a release document targeted at business users (See below) Does anyone have any suggestion of how to get the message in front of the target audience? (press release oriented towards businessmen follows: -- Announcing Crypto Kong. Free digital signatures and encryption. . Many businessmen use a faxed signature for a contract, or for authority to act, or worse still, a shared password, as stockbrokers often do. This is almost worthless. The signature on a fax can be, and often is, a mere bitmap, not genuinely scanned in from a signature written in ink on a paper document, but merely applied digitally to an image in computer memory. If that bitmap was also applied to some other document sent to the same company, which it usually was, then the fax proves nothing. On the other hand, often one cannot wait for FedEx to deliver signed documents. The answer is digital signatures and encryption. With digitally-signed electronic documents, you can send unforgeable signed documents instantaneously across the globe. Crypto Kong is easy to use and it uses the same identity model that as businesses today use for ordinary handwritten signatures, unlike other products which impose their own different way of handling identity. Crypto Kong takes away the hassles of certificate management, public key authentication, and complicated operating instructions. Anyone can immediately use it to sign documents, to compare signatures or to encrypt sensitive messages. Kong compares the signatures on documents, rather than comparing a signature against certificates. Crypto Kong software makes it easy to send or receive digitally signed documents or use top grade encryption to keep messages private. Crypto Kong provides support for contracts and the documentation that accompanies transactions. The Crypto Kong application and detailed documentation information is available as a free download from the Kong home page: Kong is compatible only with Windows 95 and Windows NT. Complete source code is also available for download from the home page. --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG SgQ8pgY/MeQpI9CfGR5kSsRdW61mSVYtqHkEMoMU 47jSLQPPmYxhaKH9MyohUU9Q9i3bzVWjwey/s3Od4 --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG gME+6HSq3N3G1iw88pJyVqcNc8dlMZhS2f+zUijA 4IpLFuTI1zY7tEU4+gDAFM6uhgcWP9IyA/3guXt7j 4WRob8mo+81LCLSyU4RiPNOilXHZTlyvZzsFMr+9d --------------------------------------------------------------------- We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this right, not from the arbitrary power of the state. http://www.jim.com/jamesd/ From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Crisavec Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 07:27:08 +0800 To: wombat@mcfeely.bsfs.org Subject: Re: cypherpunks and guns Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980114135342.008c9d80@alaska.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain All I'm saying is that not EVERYONE who collects a government paycheck has "diminished mental capacity" I know several people with genius level IQ's that simply don't care where they work....And that's something to remember... >> > >> >The fact that they collect a paycheck from the government is prima facie >> >evidence of diminished mental capacity. >> >> Don't bet on.... >> >> >> There is only one war, and it's not between the whites and the >> blacks, Labour and the Conservatives, Democrats and Republicans, or >> the Federation and the Romulans, it's between those of us who aren't >> complete idiots and those of us who are. >> >> >Who's side are you on? > > --Dave ************************************************************************ * There is a theory which states that if anyone ever discovers * * exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will * * instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more * * bizarre and inexplicable. * * * * There is another theory which states that this has already happened. * * * * "The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy." * ************************************************************************ From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 07:15:16 +0800 To: Tim May Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801142307.PAA18916@netcom5.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain timmy predictably states the case for moral relativism. >I think it's an error to use "moral" or "immoral" as a modifier for "science." > >It's a matter of opinion/ethics as to whether some science is "for immoral >purposes," but calling something "immoral science" is fraught with trouble. > >To a vegetarian, any science related to meat production is "immoral science." well, the concept of "criminality" is likewise fraught with trouble. what is criminal and what is not? obviously some definitions stretch the limits. is a jaywalker a criminal? a political dissident? ok, how about an axe murderer? similarly, I think your predictable opposition to the use of the word "immoral" is specious. moreover, I think such a misunderstanding, or worldview, is detrimental to human welfare in general. I think all the evil government scientists I've been referring to recently would very much agree with you on rejecting ideas of "morality" and "conscience". a person does not need an infallible definition of morality to navigate the world, imho, but a person that has none, or rejects any such attempt, is part of the problem and not part of the solution, imho. >Personally, I don't view scientific experiments done on condemned prisoners >as immoral. If a human being has already been sentenced to die, and, for >example, accepts some payment (perhaps for his heirs) to die in some >scientifically interesting way, why call it "immoral"? oh, well, lets see, you have a very obvious glitch in your reasoning. you presume the prisoner gives his permssion. now lets see, assume he doesn't? just to pop a hypothetical example out of the blue, say someone named timmy gets arrested for gun violations and gets thrown in jail temporarily. would it be immoral for the police to remove his organs? perhaps without his permission? perhaps without anesthetic? if not immoral, what? criminal? criminal but not immoral? >While I would not have, I hope, worked in a Nazi death camp, the science >obtained is undeniably real science, some of the only solid data we have on >freezing humans, on exposing them to pathogens, etc. I've seen your defense of these experiments before-- its a topic of interest for you for obvious reasons; it presents a possible glitch in your moral relativism. I don't think BWs claim that there is a difference between immoral scientists and immoral science. immoral science is what immoral scientists practice. what's the point? my personal point is that if we had a culture of people who were concerned about morality, perhaps we would have institutions that reflect integrity. contrary to most here, I believe that our institutions are correctly representing the people of a country-- their thoughts, their motivations, their concerns. its key to the philosophy of disenfranchisement, apathy, and nihilism (and anarchism) to claim that the government is not representing the people. what is the evidence for this? because the government is corrupt, the people are not necessarily corrupt? because the government is greedy and full of powermongers, the population is not full of greedy powermongers who would do the same given the opportunity? government is a mirror into our psyches that few people care to gaze on, precisely because we are not the fairest of them all. we've got the government we deserve, and it reflects our own pathologies within our psyches back to us. it reflects our laziness and apathy, our cynicism, our alienation, our withdrawal. and it takes a person who can master themselves to face up to this simple truth-- something that most everone of our country has failed to admit. when we begin to ask questions like "what is integrity" and "what is moral" and come up with serious answers, our world will improve. it will degenerate otherwise, and has given us a tremendous existence proof of that fact to date. but just remember, again, that I'm aimlessly ranting here, and there's no need to take any of this seriously From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Declan McCullagh Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:13:23 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: More on the POLITICS of antitrust Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Forwarded === At some points over the last decade, I would have said that the large-firm monopolization case was dead. We had learned our lesson - big-time trust-busting didn't pay. Mergers were OK and so were businesses that succeed by competing hard. The few initiatives didn't go very far: the early 1990s FTC investigation of Microsoft deadlocked; DOJ then wrested a largely cosmetic consent decree in 1994/95; the FTC looked at but then walked away from Intel. The political will to do any real damage seemed to be lacking, perhaps because these were successful export industries. Not so now. The events of the last few months suggest that the outlook is more serious both for Microsoft and for Intel, and further down the road, for firms like Cisco (king of the network routers) or Sun (if Java ever lives up to its hype). Money attracts politics (hence the bevy of attorney generals in action now), and we were foolish to expect otherwise. The implicit policy of going easy on America's information technology success stories has been abandoned. Aside from the competitor complaints and aside from the simple populist attack on wealth, another factor may play a role: populist resentment of the "digerati" (those who are computer savvy). (I intend a parallel with the late 1920s, when despite the general boom, large segments - the buggy whip manufacturers - complained about "profitless prosperity," laying the political groundwork for Hoover's veiled New Dealism. No, I am not predicting another Great Depression.) === From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: bill.stewart@pobox.com Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:39:52 +0800 To: Ross Anderson Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980114173613.007c8100@popd.ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 09:59 AM 1/14/98 +0000, Ross Anderson wrote: >Scratch Monkey proposes building an Eternity service using the Stego >File System, provided an anonymous broadcast channel exists - it's >assumed that alt.anonymous.messages will do the job. > >I suspect that wide deployment of Eternity would lead to this group >being closed down. We need a more robust anonymous broadcast >channel. Let's call it the `Covert Superhighway'. How do we build it? Usenet is useful for this because flood routing works well, and because millions of people send hundreds of megabytes a day of cover traffic, and tens or hundreds of thousands of machines are connected to it, so any individual machine connecting or retrieving traffic from it is not suspicious. It's also useful because forgery is easy and tracing is tedious, and because there's no central control in spite of the occasional cabals. If we build a sub-usenet to carry our traffic, it's easy to build good flood routing (and most of the tools can be reused), but it isn't easy to get millions of users and thousands of machines of cover traffic to piggyback on unless you either create something new and really cool, or unless you find something already cool, decentralized, and loud to piggyback on that doesn't make your traffic noticeable. Some directions to look: - Stego inside Voice-over-IP - (Ron Rivest's suggestion) This can either work because yet another phone call isn't very suspicious, though traffic analysis is a possibility, or you can develop the Killer Voice App for the Masses which does store&forward of its own bits without telling them. - IRC is one possibility, though I don't know how big it is. - CU-SeeMe reflectors are fun, and you can stego a lot of traffic inside your pictures. - Ship Anonymizers with every copy of Apache (or Apache-SSL), which is the most popular web server in the net. - Webcam Stego for webcams with high-entropy changing pictures, e.g. cloudy skies or oceans rather than mostly-static coffeepots. Adam Back's idea of piggybacking on gaming nets could be among the more interesting approaches, at least for games that don't have a central control system. In general, I'd guess that the limits of stego are that you can't really hide more than about 10% contraband inside your cover material, and for some methods it's a lot less. If you assume the typical user has a 28.8 line, you can get maybe the equivalent of 2400 bps of real traffic. Fine for banking; a bit rough for selling lots of large images, too slow for live speech. Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Antonomasia Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 03:34:21 +0800 To: remailer-operators@anon.lcs.mit.edu Subject: REMAILERS: please cut down on mccain + tea Message-ID: <199801141740.RAA03536@notatla.demon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Sorry about this, but I'd really like to see a decrease in the traffic through mccain and tea from next weekend lasting the next couple of months. I'm thinking of helping this decrease by adjusting the remailer configuration variables, and restricting the time I spend dialled-up. In view of the fact that some people will press on anyway it's probably best if most of you regard these 2 remailers as temporarily closed. If you have a reply block leading through tea, and it gets low traffic, and you can tolerate extra delay you might wish to leave it in place. This is nothing to do with the recent modem problem, nor the size of my phone bill, and I have not been got at by GCHQ. I have a really good reason for this, and if you knew what I know ... Hope to be business as usual by late March. I am not contemplating a permanent shutdown. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: noconv iQCVAgUBNLz4SkrZ5ZQH9XIxAQGKCAP9GEI3dRL2xJpF/MXC6HiCbnjaRBKDQUbt 23hUBmSgo3E3eB9tP/ZEavXFW9A0IMKMV1qfULK5HOvgYgQMkSX708Z7mGSqfWUQ nmAmMUmYW3Nww+b3lZ71Ou+LpZLrY2iGu59wOSFCKGyxgPrq1ScbqlIl/3ActWw2 3T4a/k8CPkA= =crE5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- ############################################################## # Antonomasia ant@notatla.demon.co.uk # # See http://www.notatla.demon.co.uk/ # ############################################################## From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 10:31:27 +0800 To: Declan McCullagh Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 4:34 PM -0800 1/14/98, Declan McCullagh wrote: >I wrote a little about public choice theory and the politics of antitrust >in my article last week: > > http://cgi.pathfinder.com/netly/opinion/0,1042,1678,00.html > >Attached are excerpts from recent posts to a law and economics mailing list >I'm on. I'm unsure of the reposting policy, so I'm deleting authors' names. >Should be good reading anyway. I think, Declan, that deleting the author's name is a Big Problem. I inititally assumed you wrote these words, and was preparing a rebuttal (esp. to the fanciful " Intel's Portland facility has 800 programmers charged with coming up with something as cool as the operating system developed by Next. Stay tuned." piece of nonsense. But then I went back and read your "deleting author's names" line, so now I have no idea who I'm rebutting. You have essentially made this author "Anonymous." A better approach is to ask his permission, for something substantive like this piece is, and then either post his words with his name, or not post it. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Blanc Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 11:22:32 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980114191915.007f5990@cnw.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Vladimir the MoraLogical wrote: >I don't think BWs claim that there is a difference between >immoral scientists and immoral science. immoral science is what >immoral scientists practice. what's the point? my personal point >is that if we had a culture of people who were concerned about >morality, perhaps we would have institutions that reflect >integrity. ........................................................... First the question was, what is "moral", now it must be, what is "science": what makes science, or its methods, 'scientific' - what's the difference and what's the point; is there a relation, and which is first, the chicken, or the egg (could science discover the truth about morality, and would that make the science moral, or the scientists)? Of course, if people were more moral, we would have institutions which reflected that integrity. The problem is, how could they be made to become so, and what type of methods, used toward that end, would be moral? .. Blanc From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Declan McCullagh Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 08:38:19 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Public choice theory and the politics of antitrust Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I wrote a little about public choice theory and the politics of antitrust in my article last week: http://cgi.pathfinder.com/netly/opinion/0,1042,1678,00.html Attached are excerpts from recent posts to a law and economics mailing list I'm on. I'm unsure of the reposting policy, so I'm deleting authors' names. Should be good reading anyway. -Declan === Assume for the moment that Microsoft is doing something wrong that the government should stop (a reach, I admit). If that is the case, how did the Justice Department come up with the figure of $1 million per day? Is that figure supposed to be compensatory, punitive, deterrent, or what? What goal is a daily fine supposed to accomplish that some more specifically-tailored remedy (injuntive relief, for instance) could not? Are there public choice explanations for what is driving this, and if so, what are they? === The Government's argument, I believe, is that Microsoft violated the consent order. A fine under these circumstances should punish the party that violated the order, deter it from violating the order again, and deter others from violating other orders. As for a public choice explanation, based upon the history of the present Administration, I suspect that one could be found in the records of the Federal Election Commission, i.e., I suspect that executives and shareholders of Microsoft's enemies have made far larger political contributions than Bill Gates and his colleagues. === Intel has in fact come under attack. The FTC has been investigating Intel for several months. The charge is similar to the rap on Microsoft - trying to dominate the inside of the computer by controlling the interface between the processor and "helper chips." The wonder is that Intel hasn't taken over the motherboard market - something that may also be more efficient, just as seemless integration of the operating system and browser and other applications is more efficient. Recall also that the FTC did in fact investigate Intel in the early nineties, though it filed no charges in the end. (I suspect that the FTC's institutional credibility is at stake. Since this is the second Intel probe, they're going to have come back with at least a symbolic consent decree.) Still, I would grant that the attack on Microsoft is more strident. Domestic political economy may play a role. Microsoft has vocal domestic competitors (Oracle, Netscape and Novell, for example). It's no coincidence that Republican Senator Hatch represents Novell's home state. Intel, in contrast, is viewed as the company that's keeping the foreigners at bay. Well yes, conduct and arrogance matter too. And sitting on a big pile of cash helps. That explains why a number of state AG's jumped on the anti-Microsoft bandwagon after the tobacco settlement. Finally, yes, Windows is a terrible operating system and almost everyone has an interest in seeing something better. (A confirmed Mac user, I compare Windows to the aliens in "Men in Black:" arthropod DOS stuffed into the skin of humanoid Mac.) Intel does have an incentive and the means to come up with a better operating system: Windows hurts the demand for its chips. Not surprisingly, Intel's Portland facility has 800 programmers charged with coming up with something as cool as the operating system developed by Next. Stay tuned. === [I interpret "substantial appropriable quasi-rents to be taxed away" as "campaign cash or political contributions to be expropriated as necessary by the government." --Declan] There are two reasons to go after a successful company. One possibility is that it has substantial appropriable quasi-rents to be taxed away. Even if a company's equity is high, it is not readily taxable if the assets can readily be withdrawn (e.g., Becker and Stigler's argument that Jews stayed out of agriculture because they could too easily be expropriated). The other reason for going after a successful company is to assist its competition. This may explain the attack on Microsoft ... and probably the attack on Milken as well, if you are persuaded, as I am, by Daniel Fischel's book on the case. === There has been a lot of talk about how hard Clinton has been on Microsoft. I wonder. Is it possible that Clinton has been soft on Microsoft? Hi-Tech generally has been very pro-Clinton, and contributed a lot of money to him. The fact that Justice is going after Microsoft now is not determinative. It seems to me that Microsoft was surprisingly arrogant in thinking it could get away with this blatant violation of the consent decree. THink of the Priest-Klein selection problem as applied here. PK implies that even if the judge is heavily pro-plaintiff, plaintiffs will win only 50 percent of the time in his court. The reason is that plaintiffs will bring even totally outrageous suits, knowing the judge might still rule in their favor. I suspect the same has happened with Microsoft. Confident that Clinton would block any response from Justice, they violated the consent decree. They still hope Justice will back down. So far, they are wrong (tho--has the fine been imposed yet, or has the judge delayed imposition?). The most humorous part is that Rush Limbaugh, a conservative Apple user, has been cheering for Microsoft, a notably liberal company. === > Can anybody give an efficiency explanation for this? Prima > facie, it is monopolizing conduct. Microsoft's absurd excuses are > that (a) Explorer is an integral part of Windows 95, and (b) > Allowing Netscape to come up automatically would spoil the integrity > of Windows 95. Microsoft's behavior is indeed puzzling. You would think that even though Windows has such a large market share, Microsoft would wish to enhance Window's appeal even further by making it as easy as possible for those who prefer Netscape to access Netscape easily. But, regardless of the wisdom of Microsoft's tactics, given what Eric reports about the DOJ's complaint against Microsoft, why the mighty brouhaha? Do computer users really need federal forces to help them put Netscape's icon on their Windows screen? === The DOJ wants Microsoft to be found in contempt for violating the '95 consent decree (Section IV (E)(i) of the Final Judgement) which prevents Microsoft from requiring OEM manufacturers to license other Microsoft products as a condition of recieving a license to install Windows '95 on the computers they produce -- is this not what "bundling" means? The icon business arises because three firms asked Microsoft to ammned the license agreement to allow them to remove the IE icon from the desktop and Microsoft refused to grant their requests. This is mentioned in the DOJ request for an order of contempt, but if Internet Explorer really is considered a separate product (and the DOJ claims it is) then Microsoft really isn't allowed to require firms to license it if they license Windows 95. Microsoft insists that requiring the licensing of Internet Explorer, sans icon, is still requiring the licensing of Internet Explorer, something they aren't allowed to do under the consent decree if IE is a separate product, but that it isn't a separate product so everything is just ducky. They also add that if Internet Explorer, sans icon, isn't licensed Windows won't work. They think it's silly to claim that the consent decree requires them to sell Internet Explorer, sans icon, as a part of Windows but prevents them from selling Internet Explorer, with icon, as a part of Windows. As to the why of it all... Microsoft believes, and the government agrees, that the browser itself is the seed of a new sort of operating system which will become a viable alternative to Windows 95. Microsoft says it wants reshape Windows into this new sort of operating system, the DOJ seems to want someone else to come up with it. From the DOJ's request to show cause why Microsoft should not be found in civil contempt: "Microsoft's aggressive and multi-faceted marketing of the Internet Explorer browser reflects its intense competition with other, competing Internet browsers, primarily the "Navigator" browser produced by Netscape Communications Corporation ("Netscape"). Microsoft believes that the success of competing browsers poses a serious, incipient threat to its operating system monopoly. Indeed, as Microsoft fears, browsers have the potential to become both alternative "platforms" on which various software applications and programs can run and alternative "interfaces" that PC users can employ to obtain and work with such applications and programs. Significantly, competing browsers operate not only on Windows, but also on a variety of other operating systems. Microsoft fears that over time growing use and acceptance of competing browsers as alternative platforms and interfaces will reduce the significance of the particular underlying operating system on which they are running, thereby "commoditizing" the operating system." And it's really hard for me to read this in any way other than "Microsoft is starting to realize that a web based operating system would be a better product than Windows 95 and is trying to create such an operating system, but we don't want them to because they're a monopoly." === > And about Congressional consistency: Let's suppose that Congress in July > of 1890 did indeed intend the Sherman Act to help consumers. Surely any > institution so fickle as to go from being consumers' friend to being > consumers' foe in a mere three months (by October 1890 when it hiked tariff > rates) is not an institution to be trusted with the awesome power to decide > which business practices do and do not constitute anticompetitive behavior. I would add: Why would anyone expect a Congress (1) in which a single majority party leader appointed the chairmen of each legislative committee (2) that used its committees to appoint the vast majority of federal workers (3) operating in an environment in which the pressure group had not yet emerged, to serve consumers? There is not only an antitrust myth, there is a myth among economists that the legislators of the period had any reason to make decisions based on the logic of economics. We might call this the legislature myth. The antritrust myth and the legislature myth seem to be stories we tell our little children in order to avoid scaring them. Unfortunately, many professional economists treat their students like little kids. === > So, you and I also agree that Congress often does stupid things. But what > is the alternative - do you know of a better system? Yep. A common-law system with no antitrust statutes. === From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:53:22 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: Covert Superhighway - the missing component? (fwd) Message-ID: <199801150219.UAA03045@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 17:36:13 -0800 > Original-From: Bill Stewart > Subject: Re: Covert Superhighway - the missing component? > - CU-SeeMe reflectors are fun, and you can stego a lot of traffic > inside your pictures. The problem here is the processor overhead requied to take advantage of a high frame rate. The startup costs are gonna be a bear. > Adam Back's idea of piggybacking on gaming nets could be > among the more interesting approaches, at least for games > that don't have a central control system. The problem here is that most gamers are responce-sensitive. They'll begin to wonder at some point where all that extra bandwidth is going. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 10:04:37 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: [POLITICS] 1 Question to Dr. Froomkin... (fwd) Message-ID: <199801150229.UAA03125@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 09:13:07 -0800 > Original-From: Bill Stewart > Subject: Re: [POLITICS] 1 Question to Dr. Froomkin... > > you and I are political theorists, and you're asking a political question, > though I'm not sure what kind of question you mean. Actualy I am more interested in the why's and wherefor's of the actual application and less in the theory. If the issue was only theoretical there wouldn't be over a million people in US jails and the other various excesses that are currently permitted. That is far from theoretical. > To a lawyer, the answer is that the Constitution ultimately means > whatever you can talk the Supreme Court into saying it means, That is one of the problem with the current approach. The Constitution is not taken to mean anything. A fundamental flaw, theoreticaly or practicaly. It is considered a document written by a bunch of long dead guys with little if any application for todays social structures. > So which question are you asking, and why? I'm asking Dr. Froomkin whether he accepts the Constitution as the defining document of the government (not just the courts which is implicit but unstated in your various questions) of the United States. I apologize if the question was unclear. I had intended to structure it in such a way that it was absolutely clear - it is a yes/no question after all. Why? Because I want to know. The answer would provide insight and might provide further information for future strategies. There is an old saying: Know thy enemy. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Wayne Radinsky Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 13:17:29 +0800 To: "'Blanc'" Subject: RE: rant on the morality of confidentiality Message-ID: <01BD2130.FFFF2520@sense-sea-pm6-7.oz.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain The reason morality is impossible to nail down is because it does not exist al all in any absolute sense, at least as far as science is concerned. If you declare, for example, that "murder" is "wrong" you are always left with dilemmas, such as whether soldiers who kill during a war are doing something "wrong". According to the principle of natural selection, all people, including scientists, exist purely to maximize their own inclusive genetic fitness. "Fit" means that an organism is well adapted to it's environment, so "maximizing inclusive genetic fitness" means having the maximum number of offspring which are themselves fit. Keep in mind that all natural selection really does is decide which genes are allowed to propagate, and since genes are just digital information stored on DNA molecules, what we call "life" is really just a complex interaction of matter/energy which determines which bits of information continue to exist over time. The underlying reason people benefit by promoting themselves as moral people, in general, is because of the benefit of what evolutionary psychologists call reciprocal altruism. With reciprocal altruism, both parties benefit if they are in a non-zero-sum situation. Because most situations are non-zero-sum and the benefits are so great, everyone has a stake in promoting themselves as a good reciprocal altruist, in other words, a good, trustworthy, moral person. This is how natural selection explains the existence of the concept of "morality". So it is a myth that scientists live to find deep truths or to benefit humanity. They may do those things, but their real goal is maximizing their own inclusive fitness. However, it may profit them if everyone else believes they live to find deep truths or to benefit humanity. Natural selection has created human beings, and the concept of "morality" in our minds, because moral justifications benefit the people promoting them -- which ultimately benefits their genes. The only way out is to believe in the afterlife, and religion, and that life has meaning beyond the genes and material world. Doing so doesn't make moral dilemmas go away, and you never know, people may just be believing such things for the benefit of genes, after all natural selection has no real concern for "truth". Wayne ---------- From: Blanc[SMTP:blancw@cnw.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 1998 7:20 PM To: waynerad@oz.net Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality >X-Authentication-Warning: netcom5.netcom.com: vznuri@localhost didn't use HELO protocol >To: Tim May >cc: Bill Stewart , Blanc , > cypherpunks@cyberpass.net, vznuri@netcom5.netcom.com >Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality >Date: Wed, 14 Jan 98 15:07:48 -0800 >From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" > >timmy predictably states the case for moral relativism. > >>I think it's an error to use "moral" or "immoral" as a modifier for "science." >> >>It's a matter of opinion/ethics as to whether some science is "for immoral >>purposes," but calling something "immoral science" is fraught with trouble. >> >>To a vegetarian, any science related to meat production is "immoral science." > >well, the concept of "criminality" is likewise fraught with trouble. >what is criminal and what is not? obviously some definitions stretch >the limits. is a jaywalker a criminal? a political dissident? ok, how >about an axe murderer? similarly, I think your predictable opposition >to the use of the word "immoral" is specious. > >moreover, I think such a misunderstanding, or worldview, is >detrimental to human welfare in general. I think all the evil >government scientists I've been referring to recently would >very much agree with you on rejecting ideas of "morality" and >"conscience". a person does not need an infallible definition >of morality to navigate the world, imho, but a person that has >none, or rejects any such attempt, is part of the problem and >not part of the solution, imho. > >>Personally, I don't view scientific experiments done on condemned prisoners >>as immoral. If a human being has already been sentenced to die, and, for >>example, accepts some payment (perhaps for his heirs) to die in some >>scientifically interesting way, why call it "immoral"? > >oh, well, lets see, you have a very obvious glitch in your reasoning. >you presume the prisoner gives his permssion. now lets see, assume he >doesn't? just to pop a hypothetical example out of the blue, >say someone named timmy gets arrested for gun violations and >gets thrown in jail temporarily. would it be immoral for the >police to remove his organs? perhaps without his permission? >perhaps without anesthetic? if not immoral, what? criminal? criminal >but not immoral? > >>While I would not have, I hope, worked in a Nazi death camp, the science >>obtained is undeniably real science, some of the only solid data we have on >>freezing humans, on exposing them to pathogens, etc. > >I've seen your defense of these experiments before-- its a topic of >interest for you for obvious reasons; it presents a possible glitch >in your moral relativism. > >I don't think BWs claim that there is a difference between >immoral scientists and immoral science. immoral science is what >immoral scientists practice. what's the point? my personal point >is that if we had a culture of people who were concerned about >morality, perhaps we would have institutions that reflect >integrity. > >contrary to most here, I believe that our institutions >are correctly representing the people of a country-- their thoughts, >their motivations, their concerns. its key to the philosophy of >disenfranchisement, apathy, and nihilism (and anarchism) to >claim that the government is not representing the people. what >is the evidence for this? > >because the government is corrupt, >the people are not necessarily corrupt? because the government >is greedy and full of powermongers, the population is not >full of greedy powermongers who would do the same given the >opportunity? government is a mirror into our psyches that >few people care to gaze on, precisely because we are not >the fairest of them all. > >we've got the government we deserve, and it reflects our >own pathologies within our psyches back to us. it reflects our >laziness and apathy, our cynicism, our alienation, our >withdrawal. and it takes a person who can master themselves >to face up to this simple truth-- something that most everone of our >country has failed to admit. > >when we begin to ask questions like "what is integrity" and >"what is moral" and come up with serious answers, our world >will improve. it will degenerate otherwise, and has given us >a tremendous existence proof of that fact to date. > >but just remember, again, that I'm aimlessly ranting here, and there's no >need to take any of this seriously > > > From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "William H. Geiger III" Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 10:51:43 +0800 To: Jim Choate Subject: Re: Covert Superhighway - the missing component? (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801150219.UAA03045@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199801150301.WAA08649@users.invweb.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In <199801150219.UAA03045@einstein.ssz.com>, on 01/14/98 at 08:18 PM, Jim Choate said: >The problem here is that most gamers are responce-sensitive. They'll >begin to wonder at some point where all that extra bandwidth is going. Heh, most of them are Win95 users. They should be well accustomed to unexplained degradation of performance by now. :) - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- Tag-O-Matic: Windows is to OS/2 what Etch-a-Sketch is to art. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a-sha1 Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBNL1q9o9Co1n+aLhhAQFACwP9ExsGGgrivVAJ+TggfrVCxzSL0i2m6iHH BkOUo5OTTzwGVKxoXi20h+Eympe8jwDGRbl+KJvrkcXq/e4m9nHA9mGvac4pXEzR SjxU89vR3CA9/0GDhqOHEh5VWa4uHsrnhKxXKtVhHxy7Bq1a8QvynXH6MKoCKyN6 vjc7ctcoqzg= =oeyT -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 10:15:50 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Bruce Sterling afficianado's... Message-ID: <199801150244.UAA03187@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text FYI, Was in the bookstore today and noticed that Bruce Sterling's 'Artificial Kid' is back in print at $12.95. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "William H. Geiger III" Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 12:21:56 +0800 To: Jim Choate Subject: Re: Public choice theory and the politics of antitrust (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801150310.VAA03430@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199801150432.XAA09418@users.invweb.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In <199801150310.VAA03430@einstein.ssz.com>, on 01/14/98 at 09:10 PM, Jim Choate said: >Forwarded message: >> Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 18:28:50 -0800 >> From: Tim May >> Subject: Re: Public choice theory and the politics of antitrust >> I think, Declan, that deleting the author's name is a Big Problem. >> You have essentially made this author "Anonymous." >Does knowing the name of who wrote a piece really have any bearing on the >consistency of it? Is so then there would be a clear indication that >there is a fundamental flaw with anonymous remailers and their place in >society. Of course there is bearing on who the author is. This is the foundation behind reputation capital. The existance of reputation capital does not present any flaws on anonymous remailers, their documents are just devoid of any such capital (positive or negative). Do we really need a rehash of this? - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- Tag-O-Matic: Windows? WINDOWS?!? Hahahahahehehehehohohoho... -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a-sha1 Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBNL2APY9Co1n+aLhhAQETXQQAtSqorI96ZhHcsIRhdB+R2Mw1U4euTBDr xVnVrb+VRSV+HdkWY2DtQzUV0AAEi2JcxqpqxHbglUH5crs5x3j2/9tGB0NzW45c m9MhI8BV1RmRYQWzKx4baEvk6+0oj64ViAA44nzs+8RKE8Tkn50n0NusGyQikX+B SR3OWJT2Pvc= =0jqV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 10:42:43 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: Public choice theory and the politics of antitrust (fwd) Message-ID: <199801150310.VAA03430@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 18:28:50 -0800 > From: Tim May > Subject: Re: Public choice theory and the politics of antitrust > I think, Declan, that deleting the author's name is a Big Problem. > You have essentially made this author "Anonymous." Does knowing the name of who wrote a piece really have any bearing on the consistency of it? Is so then there would be a clear indication that there is a fundamental flaw with anonymous remailers and their place in society. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | | violent revolution inevitable. | | | | John F. Kennedy | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Bill Frantz Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 13:27:29 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com Subject: Electric Communities notion of identity Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Tim may wrote: >I haven't checked on them in the last few months, but "Electric >Communities" (www.communities.com) was doing some interesting work on >adding security and market mechanism extensions to Java, in a superset >language they called "E." > >Many Cypherpunk list members, past and present worked on aspects of this, >including Chip Morningstar (one of the founders), Doug Barnes, Norm Hardy, >Bill Frantz, Mark Miller, etc. They can speak up and say more. E is a language which supports optimistic distributed programming. It produces .class files which run on unmodified Java Virtual Machines. More information is available from http://www.communities.com Perhaps of more interest to cypherpunks is the model of identity implemented in what is called today EC-Habitats, our graphical "world". (See the web pages for more details.) The model is quite similar to the model used by James A. Donald's Crypto Kong. Identity is a public key. You prove who you are by showing that you hold the private key corresponding to that public key. All of this key stuff is hidden by the user interface. What the user sees is: You meet someone "in world" and give them a nickname. When you meet them again, the software knows that it is the same "person", and refers to them by your nickname for them. Thus people can develop and maintain reputations for each other. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Frantz | | Periwinkle -- Consulting (408)356-8506 | All politicians should ski.| 16345 Englewood Ave. frantz@netcom.com | | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Robert Hettinga Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 11:53:19 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: CFP: DECEPTION, FRAUD and TRUST in AGENT SOCIETIES Workshop at AA'98 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain --- begin forwarded text To: e$@vmeng.com Subject: CFP: DECEPTION, FRAUD and TRUST in AGENT SOCIETIES Workshop at AA'98 Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 15:30:24 -0500 From: Mary Ellen Zurko Sender: Precedence: Bulk DECEPTION, FRAUD and TRUST in AGENT SOCIETIES Workshop at the Second International Conference on Autonomous Agents (AA'98) FINAL CALL FOR PAPERS Description of the workshop: The aim of the workshop is to bring together researchers that can contribute to a better understanding of trust and deception in agent societies. Most agent models assume secure and reliable communication to exist between agents. However, this ideal situation is seldom met in real life. Therefore, many techniques (e.g. contracts, signatures, long-term personnel relationships) have been evolved over time to detect and prevent deception and fraud in human communication, exchanges and relations, and hence to assure trust between agents. In recent research on electronic commerce trust has been recognized as one of the key factors for successful electronic commerce adoption. In electronic commerce problems of trust are magnified, because agents reach out far beyond their familiar trade environments. Also it is far from obvious whether existing paper-based techniques for fraud detection and prevention are adequate to establish trust in an electronic network environment where you usually never meet your trade partner physically, and where messages can be read or copied a million times without leaving any trace. Trust building is more than secure communication via electronic networks, as can be obtained with, for example, public key cryptography techniques. For example, the reliability of information about the status of your trade partner has very little to do with secure communication. With the growing impact of electronic commerce distance trust building becomes more and more important, and better models of trust and deception are needed. One trend is that in electronic communication channels extra agents, the so-called Trusted Third Parties, are introduced in an agent community that take care of trustbuilding among the other agents in the network. For example, in some cases the successful application of public key cryptography critically depends on trusted third parties that issue the keys. Although we do not focus in this workshop on techniques for secure communication (e.g. public key cryptography), we would welcome analyses about the advantages and limitations of these techniques for trustbuilding. The notion of trust is definitely important in other domains of agents' theory, beyond that of electronic commerce. It seems even foundational for the notion of "agency" and for its defining relation of acting "on behalf of". So, trust is relevant also in HC interaction; consider the relation between the user and her/his personal assistant (and, in general, her/his computer). But it is also critical for modeling groups and teams, organisations, coordination, negotiation, with the related trade-off between local/individual utility and global/collective interest; or in modelling distributed knowledge and its circulation. In sum, the notion of trust is crucial for all the major topics of Multi-Agent systems. Thus what is needed is a general and principled theory of trust, of its cognitive and affective components, and of its social functions. Analogously the study of deception not only is very relevant for avoiding practical troubles, but it seems really foundational for the theory of communication. First, because it challenges Grice's principles of linguistic communication; second, because the notion of "sign" itself has been defined in semiotics in relation to deception: "In principle, Semiotics is the discipline studying whatever can be used for lying" (U. Eco). Thus not only practical defences from deception (like reputations, guaranties, etc.), but also a general and principled theory of deception and of its forms (including fraud) are needed. We would encourage an interdisciplinary focus of the workshop as well as the presentation of a wide range of models of deception, fraud and trust(building). Just to mention some examples; AI models, BDI models, cognitive models, game theory, and also management science theories about trustbuilding. Suggested topics include, but are not restricted to: * models of deception and of its functions * models of trust and of its functions * models of fraud * role of trust and trusted third parties (TTP) in electronic commerce * defensive strategies and mechanisms * ways to detect and prevent deception and fraud WORKSHOP ORGANIZATION The full-day workshop will be aimed at creating an informal atmosphere for stimulating discussions, interdisciplinary exchange and deep understanding of each other's pespective. We plan to have both: Paper presentations: Long presentations (25-30 min) of the accepted papers, plus 10-15 minutes for discussion (possibly with discussants). Plenary discussion at the end. Panel sessions: A couple of topics will be selected for a focused discussion. Some of the attendees will be requested to participate as panelists. The panels chairs will circulate prior to the workshop a list of questions for the panelists. The accepted papers will be published in the workshop proceedings. The publication of a revised version of the accepted papers is being negotiated with a high quality publisher. SUBMISSION: CRITERIA, FORMATS, PROCEDURE The workshop welcomes submissions of original, high quality papers addressing issues that are clearly relevant to trust, deception and fraud in agent-based systems, either from a theoretical or an applied perspective. Papers will be peer reviewed by at least two referees from a group of reviewers selected by the workshop organizers. Submitted papers should be new work that has not been published elsewhere or is not about to be published elsewhere. Paper submissions: will include a full paper and a separate title page with the title, authors (full address), a 300-400 word abstract, and a list of keywords. The length of submitted papers must not exceed 12 pages including all figures, tables, and bibliography. All papers must be written in English. * The authors must send by email the title page of their paper by January 15th. * Submissions must be send electronically, as a postscript or MSword format file, by January 20th. * The authors must also airmail one hard copy of their paper to two of the organizers as soon as possible after the electronic submission. * No submissions by fax or arriving after the deadline will be accepted. SUBMISSION ADDRESS for the electronic submission Rino Falcone falcone@pscs2.irmkant.rm.cnr.it tel. +39 - 6 - 860 90 211 for the airmail hard copy Babak Sadighi Firozabadi Department of Computing - Imperial College 180 Queen's Gate - London SW7 2BZ - U.K. and (notice "and") Cristiano Castelfranchi National Research Council - Institute of Psychology Viale Marx, 15 - 00137 Roma - ITALY tel +39 6 860 90 518 IMPORTANT DATES Deadline for the electronic title page January 15, 1998 Deadline for Paper Submission January 20, 1998 Notification of Acceptance/Rejection March 1, 1998 Deadline for camera-ready version April 1, 1998 Workshop May 9, 1998 PROGRAM COMMITTEE Phil Cohen Dept. of Computer Science and Engineering, Oregon Inst. of Science and Tech., USA Robert Demolombe CERT/ONERA, France Andrew J I Jones Dept. of Philosophy - Univ. of Oslo, Norway Anand Rao Australian AI Institute, Melbourne, Australia Munindar Singh Dept. of Computer Science - North Carolina State University, USA Chris Snijders Dept. of Sociology, Utrecht, The Netherlands Gilad Zlotkin VP Engineering, Israel Gerd Wagner Inst.f.Informatik - Univ. Leipzig, Germany Cristiano Castelfranchi (co-chair) National Research Council - Institute of Psychology- Rome, Italy Yao-Hua Tan (co-chair) EURIDIS - Erasmus University - Rotterdam - The Netherlands Rino Falcone (co-organizer) National Research Council - Institute of Psychology- Rome, Italy Babak Sadighi Firozabadi (co-organizer) Department of Computing - Imperial College - London - UK ========== Rino Falcone IP - CNR National Research Council Division of "Artificial Intelligence, Cognitive Modeling and Interaction" Viale Marx, 15 00137 ROMA email: falcone@pscs2.irmkant.rm.cnr.it or falcone@vaxiac.iac.rm.cnr.it tel: ++39 6 86090.211 fax: ++39 6 86090.214 ========== -- See for list info & archives. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Where people, networks and money come together: Consult Hyperion http://www.hyperion.co.uk/ info@hyperion.co.uk ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Full-Strength Cryptographic Solutions for Worldwide Electronic Commerce http://www.c2.net/ stronghold@c2.net ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Like e$? Help pay for it! For e$/e$pam sponsorship or donations, ---------------------------------------------------------------------- --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/ Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Declan McCullagh Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 12:00:11 +0800 To: Tim May Subject: Re: Public choice theory and the politics of antitrust In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Tim, Keep in mind that each post came from a different author, with perhaps one or two exceptions. With regard to the names, I know of no formal list policy, law, or custom that would stop me from forwarding with names attached. However, I thought it might stifle discourse on a relatively intimate list if folks thought their posts were blasted around the Net to thousands. I was my judgment call, and I make no excuses. Take the ideas for what they're worth. -Declan At 18:28 -0800 1/14/98, Tim May wrote: >At 4:34 PM -0800 1/14/98, Declan McCullagh wrote: >>I wrote a little about public choice theory and the politics of antitrust >>in my article last week: >> >> http://cgi.pathfinder.com/netly/opinion/0,1042,1678,00.html >> >>Attached are excerpts from recent posts to a law and economics mailing list >>I'm on. I'm unsure of the reposting policy, so I'm deleting authors' names. >>Should be good reading anyway. > >I think, Declan, that deleting the author's name is a Big Problem. I >inititally assumed you wrote these words, and was preparing a rebuttal >(esp. to the fanciful " Intel's Portland facility has 800 programmers >charged with coming up with something as cool as the operating system >developed by Next. Stay tuned." piece of nonsense. > >But then I went back and read your "deleting author's names" line, so now I >have no idea who I'm rebutting. > >You have essentially made this author "Anonymous." > >A better approach is to ask his permission, for something substantive like >this piece is, and then either post his words with his name, or not post it. > >--Tim May > > >The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography >---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- >Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, >ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero >W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, >Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. >"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: phelix@vallnet.com Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 11:21:17 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Re: Talk of Banning Research into Human Cloning (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801141503.JAA00917@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <34bd581d.12139978@128.2.84.191> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On 14 Jan 1998 15:16:55 -0600, Jim Choate wrote: >Actualy, at least according to one episode of that show on TDC that Skully >form the X-Files hosts, there are several groups who are working on just >this thing. One female researcher has extended the life of worms (admittedly >a step or two from humans) by 7 times with no apparent effect. There was a >piece on CNN late last nite about some researchers discussing this as well. >Their estimate is that it would be at least 5 years before there would be >anything available on the open market. > >There is also at least two groups working on growing specific organs. One >group (the one interviewed on the TDC show) is using plastic forms to grow >the organs in. They can apparently grow small samples of specific cells and >are looking at how to organize the growth of more complex structures such as >a kidney which would include blood-vessels and such. > >I am sorry I don't know the name of the show. If somebody out there does >please speak up. > The name of the show is "Future Fantastic". There were 4 episodes, each covering a different area. -- Phelix From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 14:35:10 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: RE: rant on the morality of confidentiality (fwd) Message-ID: <199801150703.BAA04343@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Note that any errors in transcription are mine, I had to re-edit this to get it to fit on a 80 column screen. Forwarded message: > From: Wayne Radinsky > Subject: RE: rant on the morality of confidentiality > Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 20:32:15 -0800 > The reason morality is impossible to nail down is because it does not exist > al all in any absolute sense, Morality is an individuals or societal groups beliefs of right and wrong. Of course there is no more absolute right morality than there is a right flavor of ice cream, this entire line of reasoning is a non sequitar. Ethics is the issues of what is correct or permissible in relation to a particular human activity such as scientific research or law. When you use 'science' and 'morality' in a comparison you are in actuality comparing apples and oranges. Science is related to *how* one does a particular activity, it is not concerned in the least with *why* that activity should (not) be done in the first place. Science and its philosophy are *not* applicable to all areas of human discourse anymore than the Bible is applicable as a methodology to study quantum physics or aerodynamics. > at least as far as science is concerned. Science isn't concerned with right, wrong, morality, etc. It *is* concerned with a systematic way to ask questions in a *specific* area of discourse. To apply science to religion is as much a disservice to science and religion as it would be to try to apply it to art. > According to the principle of natural selection, all people, including > scientists, exist purely to maximize their own inclusive genetic fitness. Exactly whose theory or principle of natural selection? At the current time I am aware of several different theories that fit the data but which in many aspects are mutualy exclusive. This is entirely too broad a statement to have reasonable merit. We simply don't know enough about what is going on with the processes of life to justify this sort of leap. > Keep in mind that all natural selection really does is decide which genes > are allowed to propagate, Natural selection isn't doing anything. It is a term we apply to a process we observe occurring. That process seems to occur at several levels besides just the genes. > and since genes are just digital information stored on DNA molecules I'm afraid it's a bit more complicated than that. We start with the base pairs, which really are informationaly isolated from the codons which are triplets of base pairs which form a 'word' in the genetic code. It is of some import to realize that the genetic code itself is *not* dependant on the actual mechanism of expression, in other words you can talk about the genetic langauge without any reference to the base pairs themselves. It is the codons that are important. There is a fundamental symmetry break at that level. Each of the codons is mapped to one of 20 amino acids. Since there are 4 bases arranged in 3's there are 64 combinations. This means that for any particular amino acid there is more than one way to code it. There are also several 'stop' codes which break the transcription process as well. >, what we call "life" is really just a complex > interaction of matter/energy which determines which bits of information > continue to exist over time. That works equaly well as a definition of the cosmos. Keep this up and you'll become a pantheist...;) > The underlying reason people benefit by promoting themselves as moral > people, in general, is because of the benefit of what evolutionary > psychologists call reciprocal altruism. With reciprocal altruism, both > parties benefit if they are in a non-zero-sum situation. Because most > situations are non-zero-sum and the benefits are so great, everyone has > a stake in promoting themselves as a good reciprocal altruist, in other > words, a good, trustworthy, moral person. This is how natural selection > explains the existence of the concept of "morality". Oh boy... Not all moralities or religions accept the premise of altruistic behaviour. Further, if you look at the prisoners game, you actualy accrue more from intermittent moral behaviour than from consistent moral behaviour. Human morality has no place in any consistent theory of natural selection that I have ever seen. Please explain how a moral theory as you propose will increase the participants likelyhood for reproduction? Further, if you look at primate research (both non-human and human) what you find is a tendency for promiscuity in both sexes. Males tend to be 'in heat' at all times while females (at least when they are just entering the mating group) tend to follow a estrus or lunar based cycle. Recent studies of primates in Africa have found that the previous theory that band members don't intermingle is actualy incorrect. Upon extended monitoring they find that when the females go into heat each month they sneak off and mate with outlying members of other bands (who are usualy un-paired males). They intentionaly hide this activity from their band mates because if caught they will face a physical assault and potentialy death. This raises the question of whether chimps have morality under your view because it is clearly a measure of right and wrong. Are you willing to give chimps some sort of equal status to humans as a result? Studies of human females find this same sort of behaviour in the young just entering the mating pool. Studies find that young women tend to wear more provocative clothing and explore non-familiar peer groups in relation to their menstrual cycle. > So it is a myth that scientists live to find deep truths or to benefit > humanity. Absolutely, unfortunately the fallicy with such an assertion have nothing to do with the reasons you expound. > They may do those things, but their real goal is maximizing their own > inclusive fitness. So being a scientist increases ones probability for mating? Please be so kind as to offer some proof. Do scientist tend to have more offspring than non-scientist? I think you will find that the actual studies show that the more intelligent and well educated tend to have *fewer* children. This would seem to run contrary to your hypothesis. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Bill Stewart Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 17:45:39 +0800 To: cryptography@c2.net Subject: BAY AREA CYPHERPUNKS MEETING, SATURDAY 1/17, OAKLAND Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980115013711.008bb9f0@popd.ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain The January Bay Area Cypherpunks Meeting will be Saturday afternoon at C2 Software's office in Oakland. Agenda: Export Laws - Lee Tien and Greg Broiles Work in Progress Lots of discussion from RSA Conference. Time: 12-6pm followed by dinner - program starts at 1:00 Location: C2Net Software, Inc. 1440 Broadway Suite 700, Oakland, CA Phone: (510) 986-8770 Fax: (510) 986-8777 Public Transportation - about two blocks from the 12th St BART station. This is the best way to get there from San Francisco, and parking for BART trains is easy. :-) Driving - From South - take 880N to Broadway exit, about .9 mile, park From San Francisco - Take the Bay Bridge to Grand Ave, turn right on Telegraph and continue on Broadway. Map URL: http://www.mapblast.com/yt.hm?FAM=mapblast&CMD=GEO&SEC=find&IC=0%3A0%3A5&IC%3A=C2+Suite+700&AD2=1440+Broadway&AD3=Oakland%2C+CA Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Ryan Lackey Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 14:44:16 +0800 To: Jim Choate Subject: Re: how to release code if the programmer is a target for coercion (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > man in the middle attack on people signing code How would you do this? There is code. You sign that code with your personal pgp key, which you are assumed to keep secure. Cases: A) The code is authentic, but backdoored: you will look at it when verifying it and refuse to sign it, optionally posting how it is flawed to the world. B) The code is not the actual code used in the product, but unbackdoored: In this case, you sign it, but when someone tries to compile, the real code is not signed, and thus the attacker is no better off. C) The code is not the actual code used in the product, and is backdoored: The NSA is really stupid, then. D) The code is the authentic code, and is unbackdoored: you win. The only attacks would be if you could sneak a bug by the verifiers. With modern execution environments, it is *possible* there could be unintended consequences to almost anything. That's why I think one of the first pieces of code verified should be the JVM. Another attack would be having 5 NSA agents sign a piece of code, but you could prevent that by having the list made up of distinct well known individuals who are unlikely to all be bought -- if the NSA wants to give $100m each to the most frequent 100 posters on cypherpunks, I want to get in line :) -- Ryan Lackey rdl@mit.edu http://mit.edu/rdl/ From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "wabe" Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 15:41:33 +0800 To: Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <003701bd21a0$acd58400$cf8588d1@justice> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I like Crypto Kong. Easy to use, and cool name and little rose insignia. Private Idaho, on the other hand, was a pain and eventually I gave up. (I tried to install and use the 32 bit version.) -wabe --digsig EojdyErVslc/s6aQeIHwnOlMw3lUKJhdZc/ZeCNfe7H bPOgfo2WuJqphHEKAhe/nQIPFt1T6nTh8Ry5v9lp 47roQ27BeTu2jFYXmJJoIWdG9Lvnx+zmSiHoqscae From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 16:09:53 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: how to release code if the programmer is a target for coercion (fwd) Message-ID: <199801150835.CAA04627@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Sorry Ryan, I'll need more context to answer this one. Would it be too much to ask for more than a fragment of one sentence...:( Forwarded message: > Subject: Re: how to release code if the programmer is a target for coercion (fwd) > From: Ryan Lackey > Date: 15 Jan 1998 01:41:01 -0500 > > man in the middle attack on people signing code > > How would you do this? There is code. You sign that code with your personal > pgp key, which you are assumed to keep secure. Cases: I've probably sent out somewhere in the neighborhood of 40+ messages in the last two days, several have related to signing documents in different contexts. I don't recognize this particular fragment. Sorry, I don't memorize my traffic nor do I keep archives of it and I'm way to lazy to go searching the cypherpunks archives at 2am. I'm assuming this has something to do with the eternity server/black_net discussion that has been going on. So I'll take a stab at it, not that it may make any sense in the actual context ... - You generate the code and sign it - You deliver the signed code to a data haven server of some architecture (note that you don't know where it is or who runs it, I'll assume you use some particular usenet newsgroup as your drop point) - Somebody else comes along and sees a list of available items and selects yours (again through a usenet based request mechanism). - They receive the code signed with 'your' key and decide they want to verify the signing (through yet another usenet channel). The problem with this model is in the second step. What is to keep them from removing your signatory, moding the code, and then resigning it. If the recipient desides they want to check the sign they have two choices: - select an anonymous key that has been previously stored on some sort of key server. (if they are running a eternity server blind they could be running a key server blind as well, it follows that at least some of the users of your software wanting to verify the signing will go to this server and hence have corrupted code, if we're using the usenet model this is even more likely since they could be running a feed point for other usenet feeds downstream and hence capture many if not all requests for the product, especialy if they were the only server to actualy carry a copy.) - contact you the author directly (I'm assuming of course you were silly enough to put a publicly available key directly traceable to yourself on it in the first place) in which case they simply intercede from a upstream tap and verify their request in your behalf. In either case there is no guarantee that what comes off the server is what you the source put on there. Hence the long term security of the key is compromised. In particular, in the second case, since they already know who provided the illicit data to the server there motive is clearly to track the users. This breaks the anonymity of the data haven. Implicit in a workable data haven model is the goal of both source and sink anonymity. This means that any signed data on the server must provide a mechanism for the user to verify the sign by access to a suitable key to generate the appropriate hash and compare it to the one that the server delivered. If they match you should have the correct unadulterated document. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Admin Pgh Plan Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 17:19:19 +0800 To: freedom-knights@jetcafe.org Subject: Re: Chris Lewis's death? In-Reply-To: <34BDC364.46C2@alt.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Let us concentrate on getting Lewis fired rather than killing him. Killing Nortel would be a much better idea. On Thu, 15 Jan 1998, Dr. Zeus wrote: > Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 03:05:56 -0500 > From: "Dr. Zeus" > To: freedom-knights@jetcafe.org > Cc: cypherpunks@toad.com, usenet@pgh.org > Subject: Chris Lewis's death? > > Anonymous wrote: > > > > I tried sending an anonymous test article to comp.org.cauce via the CRACKER > > remailer. Sure enough, the Gypsie Jew Zorch forged a cancel for my article: > > > > >From: scott@zorch.sf-bay.org (Scott Hazen Mueller) > > >Newsgroups: comp.org.cauce > > >Subject: cancelled posting > > >Date: 30 Dec 1997 13:25:04 -0500 > > >Organization: At Home; Salida, CA > > >Lines: 26 > > >Sender: johnl@iecc.com > > >Approved: comp.org.cauce@abuse.net > > >Message-ID: > > >Reply-To: scott@zorch.sf-bay.org > > >NNTP-Posting-Host: ivan.iecc.com > > >X-submission-address: comp-org-cauce@abuse.net > > >X-Authentication-Warning: orbit.hooked.net: Uzorch set sender to news@zorch.sf-bay.org using -f > > >X-Nntp-Posting-Host: localhost.sf-bay.org > > >Path: ...!iecc.com!iecc.com!not-for-mail > > > > > >I have issued a cancel for the following posting to comp.org.cauce. Death > > >threats are serious business. > > > > > >Xref: zorch comp.org.cauce:378 > > >Path: zorch!news.well.com!noos.hooked.net!204.156.128.20.MISMATCH!news1.best.com > > >!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-sea-19.sprintlink.net!news-i > > >n-west.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!205.238.207.65!iecc.com!iecc.co > > >m!not-for-mail > > >From: Anonymous > > >Newsgroups: comp.org.cauce > > >Subject: CAUCE offers a $50,000 (canadian) reward for killing Chris Lewis, his w > > >ife, and the kid > > >Date: 30 Dec 1997 10:58:17 -0500 > > >Organization: I.E.C.C., Trumansburg NY > > >Lines: 14 > > >Sender: johnl@iecc.com > > >Approved: comp.org.cauce@abuse.net > > >Message-ID: > > >NNTP-Posting-Host: ivan.iecc.com > > >X-submission-address: comp-org-cauce@abuse.net > > >Comments: This message did not originate from the Sender address above. > > > It was remailed automatically by anonymizing remailer software. > > > Please report problems or inappropriate use to the > > > remailer administrator at . > > > > My cancelled Usenet article offered a reward for killing the spammer: > > > > >CAUCE, the enforcement branch of the Internet administration, is dedicated to > > >exterminating all SPAMMERS by any means necessary. CAUCE wants Chris Lewis and > > >all other SPAMMERS dead, and will gladly pay the $50,000 (canadian) reward to > > >whomever KILLS Chris Lewis and his family, who reside in a suburb of Ottawa: > > > > > I think we should leave the family out of this, and instead killing > Chris Lewis, just get him fired from Nortel > > > > >483 Vances Side Road > > >Dunrobin, Ontario K0A 1T0 > > >CANADA > > >Home telephone: (613) 832-0541, > > >Office telephone: (613) 763-2935 > > > > > >After you kill Chris Lewis and his family, please see http://www.cauce.org > > >for information on how to collect your CAUCE reward. > > > > This is fucking censorship! I'm putting the notice of the CAUCE reward on my > > web home page at http://www.panix.com/~guy, right next to the pictures of the > > pre-teen kids screwing. Fuck you, Zorch, you're next after C, P, and G Lewis. > > > > ---guy > > Just6 who is this "guy?" > From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: mark@unicorn.com Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 20:24:01 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Sealand (was Re: (eternity) autonomous agents) Message-ID: <884866825.4040.193.133.230.33@unicorn.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Lucky Green wrote: >Sealand, about which I wrote about on this list before, was an example >that should be studied by the offshore advocates. Based in an old >oilrig housing platform, Victorian sea-fort, AFAIR. >some unlucky investors attempted to establish >their own country. They began issuing stamps and passports for their >"country". As any reasonable person should have expected, nobody would >move their mail and nobody recognized their passports. Which wasn't the point; the majority of those they sold were just for fun, not serious attempts at being recognized. However, I noticed a newspaper article over Christmas about a woman who's selling professional-looking passports in the names of countries which no longer exist or changed names; the intention, presumably, being that immigration officials won't realise that the passports aren't real. >They went bankrupt. I'd be interested to know where you got your information from, because both Strauss ('How to start your own country') and the Micronations Web page tell different stories; that Sealand was set up mostly for fun by a couple of guys who made a lot of money from pirate radio and it lasted at least fifteen years. Of course this doesn't detract from the main point, which is that you won't get away with offshore data-havens unless you are able to defend them against invaders; Strauss claims Sealand was invaded by some German businessmen at one point, and any such data-haven will soon be visited by cops or warships. Mark From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Ryan Lackey Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 18:26:51 +0800 To: Jim Choate Subject: Re: how to release code if the programmer is a target for coercion (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Jim Choate writes: > more than a fragment of one sentence...:( > I'm assuming this has something to do with the eternity server/black_net > discussion that has been going on. So I'll take a stab at it, not that it > may make any sense in the actual context ... Yes, you guessed right :) > > - You generate the code and sign it > > - You deliver the signed code to a data haven server of some architecture > (note that you don't know where it is or who runs it, I'll assume you > use some particular usenet newsgroup as your drop point) > > - Somebody else comes along and sees a list of available items and selects > yours (again through a usenet based request mechanism). > > - They receive the code signed with 'your' key and decide they want to > verify the signing (through yet another usenet channel). > > The problem with this model is in the second step. What is to keep them > from removing your signatory, moding the code, and then resigning it. If the > recipient desides they want to check the sign they have two choices: The problem reduces to one of distribution of public keys. In my model (er, actually Lenny Foner's model, in this case), you distribute something that has intrinsic verifiability -- the eternity source. So whether or not rdl's eternity-dds signing key is compromised is irrelevant to the users -- in fact, the assumption is that since I am a known target, I've been killed or compromised. So, there's this potentially untrusted code out there. People who have known public keys then inspect and sign the code. It is assumed these people have distributed their public keys far and wide, signed by lots of people, etc. As long as you can assume the "PGP web of trust", the distributed software signing thing works. I agree that the current state of PGP use is probably not enough for the "PGP web of trust" -- I've *never* used a key and found it signed by anyone I know. However, I think even the current system puts a pretty high barrier to fraud, and if there started to be fraud, people would start signing each other's keys. A keyserver serving keys like "rdl's eternity-dds release signing key" might be subject to traffic analysis, true. However, as you suggest, you could put the keyserver inside Eternity. Then, the problem just gets shifted -- now you need (a) pgp signing key(s) which has/have signed all of those keys. I think it is unreasonable to think merely signing a key (and distributing your own personal key securely) will be a felony before anything has been done with that key. More to the point, I think it is unreasonable to think the government will go after people purely for signing the source code to a piece of software -- signing does not imply you use it, does not imply that you wrote it, does not imply anything other than that you've looked at it, verified it, and signed it. The government would do just as well to track down the posters to cypherpunks and kill them. -- Ryan Lackey rdl@mit.edu http://mit.edu/rdl/ From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: John Young Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 20:00:43 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: BXA Wassenaar Rule Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980115115610.0109ab8c@pop.pipeline.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain BXA published today its interim rule for implementing the Wassenaar Arrangement: http://jya.com/bxa-wa-rule.txt (354K) Or compressed, self-extracting Zip: http://jya.com/bxa-wa-rule.exe (80K) ---------- Federal Register, 15 January 1998 [Excerpt] [[Page 2452]] Bureau of Export Administration _______________________________________________________________________ 15 CFR Parts 732, 740, 742, 743, 744, 746, 762, and 774 Implementation of the Wassenaar Arrangement List of Dual-Use Items: Revisions to the Commerce Control List and Reporting Under the Wassenaar Arrangement; Rule DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE Bureau of Export Administration 15 CFR Parts 732, 740, 742, 743, 744, 746, 762, and 774 [Docket No. 971006239-7239-01] RIN 0694-AB35 Implementation of the Wassenaar Arrangement List of Dual-Use Items: Revisions to the Commerce Control List and Reporting Under the Wassenaar Arrangement AGENCY: Bureau of Export Administration, Commerce. ACTION: Interim rule with request for comments. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- SUMMARY: Representatives of thirty-three countries gave final approval July 12-13, 1996 in Vienna, Austria to establish the Wassenaar Arrangement on Export Controls for Conventional Arms and Dual-Use Goods and Technologies. The thirty-three countries agreed to control all items in the List of Dual-Use Goods and Technologies with the objective of preventing unauthorized transfers. They further agreed on a target date of November 1, 1996, for implementation of the Wassenaar Lists. The purpose of this interim rule is to make the changes to the Commerce Control List necessary to implement the Wassenaar List. In addition, this interim rule imposes new reporting requirements on persons that export certain items controlled under the Wassenaar Arrangement to non-member countries in order to fulfill the information exchange requirements of the Wassenaar Arrangement. The Department of Commerce, with other concerned agencies, is reviewing the Export Administration Regulations to determine whether further changes will be required to implement the information sharing provisions of the Wassenaar Arrangement and to make the necessary adjustments to existing country groups. This rule also revises part 740 of the EAR by removing License Exception availability for certain items controlled for missile technology reasons. Although the Export Administration Act (EAA) expired on August 20, 1994, the President invoked the International Emergency Economic Powers Act and continued in effect, to the extent permitted by law, the provisions of the EAA and the EAR in Executive Order 12924 of August 19, 1994, as extended by the President's notices of August 15, 1995, August 14, 1996 and August 15, 1997. DATES: This rule is effective January 15, 1998. Comments on this rule must be received on or before February 17, 1998. ADDRESSES: Written comments should be sent to Patricia Muldonian, Regulatory Policy Division, Bureau of Export Administration, Department of Commerce, P.O. Box 273, Washington, DC 20044. FOR FURTHER INFORMATION CONTACT: James Lewis, Director, Office of Strategic Trade and Foreign Policy Controls, Bureau of Export Administration, Telephone: (202) 482-0092. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: bill payne Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 22:40:50 +0800 To: napa@tmn.com Subject: Joe Bress Message-ID: <34BE198B.7852@nmol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Thursday 1/15/98 6:54 AM Ray Sumser Arnold Intrater Jennifer Lipnick National Academy of Public Administration 955 L'Enfant Plaza, North SW Washington, DC 20074 202-651-8062 393-0993 FAX Former NAPA employee and lawyer Joe Bress' words, "Win or lose," to me spoke in your presence in ABQ caused some additional whistleblowing on Internet. A cypherpunk, I am guessing. I stayed off Internet for one year so as to be above suspicious. The attached letter to judge Edwards was mailed July 16, 1996. And received July 18, 1996. Moorer and other retired Navy brass, at a news conference, expressed grave suspicion over the FBI's recently concluded 18-month investigation of the disaster, in which the plane disintegrated July 17, 1996, en route to Paris and plunged into the Atlantic near Long Island, killing 230. They said a military missile explosion just outside the 747's forward cabin seems the likely cause. While the timing of my letter to Edwards was merely coincidence, I am concerned that whistleblowing may constitute a danger to public safety. Please help to get this matter settled. Thanks bill Title: Navy Brass Revive Missile Theory [Email Reply] Retired Navy Brass Revives Twa Missile Theory Officers Voice Suspicions Over Fbi's Findings By John Hanchette and Billy House Adm. Thomas H. Moorer, former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, on Jan. 8 called for new congressional hearings into last July's crash of TWA Flight 800. "It absolutely deserves more investigation -- a lot more," Moorer told Gannett News Service. "This time, I wouldn't let the FBI do it. I'd have the NTSB (National Transportation Safety Board) do it. I think Congress certainly should get more answers from the FBI." Moorer and other retired Navy brass, at a news conference, expressed grave suspicion over the FBI's recently concluded 18-month investigation of the disaster, in which the plane disintegrated July 17, 1996, en route to Paris and plunged into the Atlantic near Long Island, killing 230. They said a military missile explosion just outside the 747's forward cabin seems the likely cause. "All evidence would point to a missile," Moorer said. "All those witnesses who saw a streak that hit the airplane -- you have to assume it's a missile. In an investigation like this, you can't overlook anything." Moorer, an expert on missile weaponry, attended the news conference convened by a media critic group that scoffs at the official NTSB and FBI findings unveiled a month ago. Joseph Valiquette, FBI spokesman in New York, said the agency is "comfortable" with its conclusions that "there's no evidence a criminal act was responsible." 'A train wreck in the sky' The Navy officers -- who appeared with a veteran TWA pilot, two witnesses and members of Accuracy in Media, which coordinated the briefing -- said a new study of evidence from recovered Flight 800 data recorders rebuts the government's official story about fuel vapors exploding in a central tank of the jetliner after a spark from unknown causes. "This is either a train wreck in the sky, or an explosive device -- mid-air, outside the plane," said retired Navy Cmdr. William Donaldson, who flew 89 combat missions over Vietnam and for five years was a top Naval aviation accident investigator. Donaldson, who said he is not working for TWA or the passenger jet's manufacturer, Boeing, examined the mountain of material released in early December about the $100 million federal investigation. He particularly criticized one NTSB document reflecting flight-recorder data that was not discussed when the material was unveiled in Baltimore last month. Donaldson noted a line drawn through readings of the last five seconds of the doomed jet's flight, with a handwritten margin note reading "End of Flt. 800 DATA" -- except there are more revealing readings below it. He said he thinks this was an attempt to divert attention from the final readings on the flight recorder: "The only reason you put flight data recorders into an airplane at millions of dollars cost is to capture this last data line." He said NTSB officials later tried to convince the Navy dissidents it merely was transcript from an earlier flight -- a conclusion former TWA pilot Howard Mann said is "not possible -- it's erased -- there's just no way." The final readings show chaos in the sky -- with airspeed dropping instantly by almost 200 knots, the pitch angle jumping five degrees, altitude dropping 3,600 feet in about three seconds, the roll angle going from zero to 144 degrees (the plane almost inverted), and magnetic heading changing from 82 degrees to 163 degrees. The small vane that measures wind angle striking the nose -- situated on the left forward fuselage -- goes from 3 degrees to 106 degrees back to 30 degrees. Donaldson said all these indicate an extremely high-pressure wave coming from the lower left side of the plane's front. The measurements "indicate there was an explosion -- a big explosion -- outside the cockpit." Mann agreed with Donaldson's interpretations. Donaldson also said: * Divers found debris from the forward fuselage as much as 2,900 feet to the right of the extended flight path, suggesting it may have been propelled by an explosion from the plane's left. * Fuselage doors from near the front of the craft, later recovered, were bent and dented inward. * Subsequent tests Donaldson conducted showed fuel vapor in the empty center tank would not have been flammable enough to cause such an explosion, and there was nothing to ignite it. * More damage occurred to the left wing than the right. * The fuselage skin broke up in such a way as to suggest a pressure wave from the outside left front. "What you're looking at is the product of an explosion in the sky that totally destroyed the aircraft's ability to fly anywhere," he said. A digital animation computer rendering of the catastrophe -- prepared by the CIA for media use in early December -- sought to explain some of the physical forces on the flight data by showing the nose breaking off the huge aircraft and the body then climbing almost 3,000 feet before a huge petroleum explosion sends it fireballing into the sea. "There couldn't have been an aviator at CIA who had anything to do with that," said Donaldson. "They were laughed out of town by pilots." Eyewitness accounts Two witnesses from Long Island -- lawyer Frederick Meyer and furniture maker Richard Goss -- described what looked like a missile contrail rising upward in the sky before the TWA explosion. Goss said the FBI was interested and "very amazed," but later "there wasn't as much enthusiasm . . . I never heard from them again." Meyer, a helicopter pilot in Vietnam, was flying an Air National Guard helicopter on maneuvers when the disaster occurred in front of him: "I saw, what I swear to God, was military ordnance explode." Meyer said, "The aircraft I saw came out of the air like a stone. Nobody saw that aircraft climb a foot after it was hit. The CIA cartoon bears no similarity to what I saw." Meyer approached the FBI with his report, but said after two desultory interviews, agents never called back. He claims he knows several witnesses who called the FBI's 800 number with similar reports, but were not called back. The FBI, Donaldson said, "is holding the lid on 92 witnesses who allege they saw something go and climb to the sky. Most of those people are scared to death right now." Valiquette, the FBI spokesman, said, "We know there are always going to be people who will never accept our findings. And we're comfortable with that, too. . . . We went back and re-interviewed all those eyewitnesses. We plotted their positions, and there was a lot of analysis done. Today, we are comfortable with the results." The retired officers speculated a missile could have come from either a submarine or a buoy device developed by the Navy years ago to float attack missiles into position for launch from miles away. "One vital question we haven't attacked is the origin of that streak of light," Moorer said. "Where did it come from? Who fired it." For its part, the NTSB insisted after the briefing that "We have no physical evidence that a missile impacted TWA 800, or a fragment of a missile penetrated the aircraft." Navy Times, Jan. 19, 1998, Page 14 Posted here Jan. 15, 1998 Web Page: http://www.aci.net/kalliste/ From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Robert Hettinga Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 22:30:51 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: AT&T Database Reveals Unlisted Names From Numbers Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Yet another reason for cash settled IP telephony? Actually, you can trace an IP address just as well, can't you?... Cheers, Bob Hettinga --- begin forwarded text Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 19:06:14 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: weber.ucsd.edu: procmail set sender to rre-request@weber.ucsd.edu using -f X-Authentication-Warning: weber.ucsd.edu: Processed from queue /usr/spool/mqueue/rqueue Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 18:58:10 -0800 (PST) From: Phil Agre To: rre@weber.ucsd.edu Subject: AT&T Database Reveals Unlisted Names From Numbers Resent-From: rre@weber.ucsd.edu Reply-To: rre-maintainers@weber.ucsd.edu X-URL: http://communication.ucsd.edu/pagre/rre.html X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/1803 X-Loop: rre@weber.ucsd.edu Precedence: list Resent-Sender: rre-request@weber.ucsd.edu =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= This message was forwarded through the Red Rock Eater News Service (RRE). Send any replies to the original author, listed in the From: field below. You are welcome to send the message along to others but please do not use the "redirect" command. For information on RRE, including instructions for (un)subscribing, send an empty message to rre-help@weber.ucsd.edu =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Date: Wed, 14 Jan 98 12:38 PST From: privacy@vortex.com (PRIVACY Forum) Subject: PRIVACY Forum Digest V07 #02 PRIVACY Forum Digest Wednesday, 14 January 1998 Volume 07 : Issue 02 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 13 Jan 98 10:05 PST From: lauren@vortex.com (Lauren Weinstein; PRIVACY Forum Moderator) Subject: AT&T Database Reveals Unlisted Names From Numbers Greetings. In a memorable scene from the 1975 film "Three Days of the Condor," CIA agent-on-the-run Joe Turner, played by Robert Redford, monitors a phone line with a telephone test set (known in telco parlance as a "butt set" or more popularly a "butt-in"). After taping and determining the touch- tone digits being dialed, he makes a call to an "operator" who provides the name and address of the party associated with that dialed number. His exchange with that operator was completely authentic. For decades telephone companies have operated "Customer Name and Address" bureaus, known colloquially as "CNA" bureaus. Presented with a phone number, the CNA operators provide name and address data, even for unlisted or non-published numbers. This service was and is ostensibly only for telephone company use. The telcos rightly considered this information sensitive, and CNA access numbers were always subject to frequent changing, but still leaked out. They were highly coveted by private detectives, phone phreaks, and others, for various investigative or even harassing purposes (few things can upset a person who thinks they have an unlisted number more than a bizarre call from an unknown person in the dead of night who knows their name...) Over the years, telephone subscribers have become more aware of the various commercial and other purposes to which their telephone listings have been subjected, and increasing percentages of folks have unlisted ("non-published" or "non-pub") numbers. In states like California, the majority of numbers are non-pub. Telephone company literature usually states that a non-pub status (for which subscribers now typically have to pay an extra monthly fee) also protects them from so-called "upside-down" listings and services--essentially published versions of CNA that provide listings in telephone number and/or house address order. Clearly the telcos realize that people are still very sensitive about their names and/or addresses being looked up by number. So it was with considerable concern late last year when I learned of an easily accessible AT&T database that provides a major portion of CNA--the provision of names from numbers, even for unlisted or non-published numbers. I have been engaged in a dialogue with various AT&T officials concerning this database since then. Getting an official response has taken some time (the holidays didn't help of course), and I've been told that I'm the first person to ever bring this issue to their attention (a familiar enough refrain when it comes to privacy issues...) The database in question is a "service" (which AT&T says is greatly appreciated by their customers) which ostensibly exists to allow automated access to number information by business customers. AT&T long distance business customers, upon calling their designated customer service number from their bills, enter a typical complex voice mail maze. After entering their main AT&T account number into the system, one of the choices available relates to "if you do not recognize a number on your bill." Choosing this option drops the user into an automated system which allows the direct entering of phone numbers. For each number entered, the system then attempts to read out (using a voice synthesizer) the name associated with that number. An option is also available to spell out the name, since text-to-speech handling of proper names can be less than optimal (remind me to tell the story of my "Touch-Tone Unix" synthesizer system from the '70's someday). The number entry/readout sequence can be repeated (apparently) as many times as desired. The need for a customer to find out who is associated with a truly unknown number on their bill can be a real one. Unfortunately, this database has a variety of negative characteristics: -- The database does not limit lookups to numbers actually on the customer's bill! Any numbers can be entered, and the system will usually provide the associated name, even if they are not on the current (or any) bill. Presence or absence from the bill is totally irrelevant. -- The database provides data for unlisted or non-published numbers just as happily as for listed numbers. This includes corporate internal numbers, modem and fax lines, residential second lines, and so on. -- For listed numbers, the database sometimes provides not the name associated with the listing, but rather the name of the *person* who is apparently the "billing contact" for the listed entity and usually has nothing whatever to do with the listing itself! To quote from the official response I received from the AT&T media relations representative with whom I have been in contact about these concerns: "As a matter of policy, AT&T safeguards customer information from unauthorized access. It is also our policy to allow business customers to access their account-billing records to check the accuracy of their records and to request changes, as necessary, by using an automated system. Until now, questions such as yours have never come up, so we want to thank you very much for bringing your concerns to our attention. ... The system has been in use for several years and, in our search for ways to improve the accuracy, timeliness and cost- effectiveness of the services we offer customers, we had already begun evaluating a number of options. Your inquiry has hastened our considerations of new ways to offer capabilities that our business customers value while safeguarding private customer information from unauthorized access. So, again, we thank you for bringing this issue to our attention." What this really means in terms of actual changes is decidedly unclear. No date is specified for any alterations, nor have they explained in any manner what sorts of customer privacy changes (if any) will be made, nor how any new system might differ from the current one. In the meantime, I have been told that they do not intend to alter the operations of the current database in any manner. I have suggested suspending or limiting the current system as a clear move to help protect telephone subscribers' privacy. AT&T has chosen not to do so. They point out that the database is not "intended" for other than the lookup of unknown numbers on the bills, and that they consider any other use to be improper. However, such improper uses will continue to be completely possible under the current system. My overall impression is that AT&T feels people aren't concerned about number to name lookups, and that AT&T doesn't see what harm such information could do in any case. This sort of "What harm could it do?" attitude is one that PRIVACY Forum readers have seen repeatedly with commercial databases of various sorts. It of course is important that persons make their feelings about such issues known once they come to light. If people don't bother to complain, faulting the commercial database policies themselves becomes considerably more problematical. Others may agree, or perhaps disagree, with AT&T's apparent attitudes about this matter. It seems likely that more persons expressing their opinion, either positive or negative about the system, would be useful to AT&T in helping to gauge public feelings about such matters. AT&T has told me specifically that the appropriate venue for such opinions would be AT&T Executive Resolution, at (908) 221-4191 (8-5 PM Eastern--I'm told that collect calls are accepted during those business hours). All too often, we see that the implementation of potentially useful services is done in a manner that produces undesirable (and often unintended) negative privacy side-effects. A key issue is to what extent an entity responds to privacy concerns, even when they might not agree with them, after they've been made aware of the issues. So far, I'm afraid that AT&T's response to this situation has not been stellar. --Lauren-- Lauren Weinstein Moderator, PRIVACY Forum http://www.vortex.com ------------------------------ End of PRIVACY Forum Digest 07.02 ************************ --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/ Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: bill.stewart@pobox.com Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 09:14:48 +0800 To: Jim Choate Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980115092303.008c5670@popd.ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain It's especially a problem for them because email is replacing a lot of Express Mail, Fedex, and similar higher-priced services, so profits get hit harder. The phone companies are having the same problem - while voice over the Internet isn't making much of a dent, expensive international calling has a lot of fax traffic that's easy to turn into email. And the Web is replacing a lot of 800-number calling for information services from companies, which are also a higher-profit part of the business. At 07:33 PM 1/12/98 -0600, Jim Choate wrote: >Forwarded message: >> U.S. POSTAL SERVICE LOSING BUSINESS TO COMPUTERS >> >> e-mail vs. snail mail January 12, 1998 >> Web posted at: 3:25 p.m. EST (2025 GMT) >> >> NEW YORK (CNN) -- The U.S. Postal Service is facing stiff >> competition from computers, according to an article in the January >> 19 issue of Time Magazine. >> >> Electronic mail could replace 25 percent of conventional mail, or >> "snail mail," by the year 2000, the article said. >> >> The Postal Service lags behind Federal Express and United Parcel >> Service in shipping packages. The latter already moves 80 percent of >> the country's packages, according to the article. Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: bill.stewart@pobox.com Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 09:14:37 +0800 To: Jim Choate Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980115093003.008c5670@popd.ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain This isn't really the list for that sort of thing. While Rand is partially correct, the big industrialization of the US came from the railroad business opening the West, which depended on killing off the Indians who lived there - in large part by wiping out the buffalo herds and starving the people, and by using the US Army to kill them, and granting large chunks of the land to the railroads, not only enough right of way for tracks, but typically several miles on each side. Here in Northern California, the Gold Rush was simplified by killing off the local tribes in gold country. And much of the early industrialization in New England was cotton mills, processing slave-grown cotton. At 11:31 AM 1/13/98 -0600, Jim Choate wrote: > > America's abundance was created not by public sacrifices to "the > common good," but by the productive genius of free men who pursued > their own personal interests and the making of their own private > fortunes. They did not starve the people to pay for America's > industrialization. They gave the people better jobs, higher wages, and > cheaper goods with every new machine they invented, with every > scientific discovery or technological advance- and thus the whole > country was moving forward and profiting, not suffering, every step of > the way. > > - Ayn Rand > > > > In the United States the majority undertakes to supply a multitude of > ready-made opinions for the use of individuals, who are thus relieved > from the necessity of forming opinions of their own. > > - Alexis de Tocqueville > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > | | > | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make | > | violent revolution inevitable. | > | | > | John F. Kennedy | > | | > | | > | _____ The Armadillo Group | > | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | > | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | > | .', |||| `/( e\ | > | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | > | ravage@ssz.com | > | 512-451-7087 | > |____________________________________________________________________| > > > Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 23:19:34 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: how to release code if the programmer is a target for coercion (fwd) Message-ID: <199801151544.JAA05496@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Hi Ryan, Thanks for the clarification. I've added a few issues that have occured to myself and Doug Floyd (operator of the dh-l mailing list) during several short discussions we've had over the last year. Forwarded message: > Subject: Re: how to release code if the programmer is a target for coercion (fwd) > From: Ryan Lackey > Date: 15 Jan 1998 05:19:25 -0500 > The problem reduces to one of distribution of public keys. Agreed. > In my model > (er, actually Lenny Foner's model, in this case), you distribute something > that has intrinsic verifiability -- the eternity source. If I understand this you mean to use the code itself as the key? So you require all the eternity servers to use the same source? Doesn't this imply at some point a single point of distribution and hence another point of attack? > So whether > or not rdl's eternity-dds signing key is compromised is irrelevant to > the users -- in fact, the assumption is that since I am a known target, > I've been killed or compromised. So, there's this potentially untrusted > code out there. I am unclear as to what you mean by 'known target', are you refering to a particular eternity server, the eternity server code itself, the document the user is looking for, or the provider of the document? I suspect the provider of the document. Doesn't the fact that you can't address issues of key validity become an issue? How does this model handle key aging or do you propose to leave the same keys out there for extended periods of time (ie decades after your death)? Doesn't this extended lifetime represent a threat to the validity of the keys since it provides mallet an exceptional period of time in which to mount the attack? Especialy since nobody is checking the keys? It further seems to me that the main motive of most law enforcement is going to be going after the user of the data the majority of the time since this is much more time critical than knowing who provided the data. After all simply knowing who did the original sourcing is not enough to remove the problem after the fact. Eternity servers are after intended to be long lived mechanism, this provides the authorities much time to follow the data and analyze the network traffic. Wouldn't it be important to provide some sort of delivery mechanism that provides a full encryption envelope around the data until it is delivered to alice? I recognize this exacerbates instead of alleviates the key server security issues. > People who have known public keys then inspect and sign the code. It is > assumed these people have distributed their public keys far and wide, signed > by lots of people, etc. As long as you can assume the "PGP web of trust", > the distributed software signing thing works. Ah, ok. So we again are assuming everyone is using the same particular piece of technology. In this model, would it not add security to the mechanism to have the eternity server deliver the encryption software (ie PGP)? How does this model handle the physical contact that is required in the PGP web of trust? In particular how does it verify that the actual physical contact occured? Can you address the key distribution mechanism and how it addresses the issue of a mallet producing their own key server with their own keys signed sureptitiously by their own multiplicity of 'nyms? Do you see a group of 'Johny Appleseeds' roaming the country in person dropping little dolops of signed keys off? Or, do you believe some sort of key verification service will need to be generated that compares keys for individual 'nyms on the various servers and publishes a list of keys that don't match (something that would to my thinking be prime data for a data haven server). Doesn't such a 'trusted' service have the same sort of 'user end' threats as the eternity servers themselves? Assume for a moment that mallet wants to monitor a particular alice. Alice makes her request which goes through mallets tap. Outbound traffic is uneffected so that the actual keys sent to the server are good. However, no the return stroke mallet intercept the traffic, provides their own bogus keys and signed document. How do you see alice finding a way to recognize this? The threat with this model is that alice might be turned and therefore condemn any co-participants in whatever activity alice is supposed to be involved in (eg ingesting lettuce or leading a freedom cell in Burma)? > I agree that the current state of PGP use is probably not enough for > the "PGP web of trust" -- I've *never* used a key and found it signed by > anyone I know. However, I think even the current system puts a pretty high > barrier to fraud, and if there started to be fraud, people would start > signing each other's keys. I agree with all the points but the last. When the cost becomes too high (ie inconvenient) they simply won't use it. I just can't seem to grasp why people would spend even more money (which would provide a flag via monitoring of funds) to physicaly meet a group of others who they probably don't know and therefore probably shouldn't trust at such a fundamental level. > A keyserver serving keys like "rdl's eternity-dds release signing key" might > be subject to traffic analysis, true. However, as you suggest, you could > put the keyserver inside Eternity. Then, the problem just gets shifted -- now > you need (a) pgp signing key(s) which has/have signed all of those keys. I believe it is a fundamental mistake to have the key server inside the eternity server, just as I object to anonymous remailers that provide such service. The key servers should be on different machines to provide physical independance & legal indipendance - these are long lived keys after all and there is no reason architecturaly to put the keys at threat if the data haven is at threat, and finaly technological indipendance - it should not require a upgrade of the eternity software (and visa versa) to upgrade the key server software. Another issue that was raised previously, neither I nor anyone else addressed it at the time, is this acceptance of latency of distribution. Since we are talking about providing potentialy damaging documents (to who is intentionaly left vague) doesn't this latency provide opportunities for attack? Unlike a remailer network where it defeats traffic analysis in the data haven model it seems like a perfect means to get the processing window to actualy mount a trace. Anyway, since I am still about 3-6 months from actualy implimenting any of my own Plan 9 based (network level anonymity) model this is all conjecture. Hope it provides at least a seed for something useful. Ta ta. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 23:18:06 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Microsoft Metaphors (fwd) Message-ID: <199801151547.JAA05542@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 10:09:09 -0500 > From: Declan McCullagh > Subject: Microsoft Metaphors > What are the best metaphors to use when talking about a browser and an > operating system? Is the combination like a car and an engine, or a car and > a roofrack? A pair of gloves? It seem to me to be like a car and a road map. It simply lets you address the multiplicity of resources (ie destinations) out there in a convenient model. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 01:58:21 +0800 To: Declan McCullagh Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 7:09 AM -0800 1/15/98, Declan McCullagh wrote: >What are the best metaphors to use when talking about a browser and an >operating system? Is the combination like a car and an engine, or a car and >a roofrack? A pair of gloves? > >Or is it even useful to talk about a browser/OS metaphor in the case of >Microsoft, since IE has been glued into the operating system in the form of >.DLLs? Might that be more like the wheels of a car? I think this is one of those cases where metaphors mislead. They cause more confusion than they lessen confusion. (I was thinking about the "car + navigation system" metaphor, which someone I think proposed, and how a car company is supplying a map/Etak, but other map makers want the Justice Department to force the car maker to remove their map/Etak, and so on.... but any browser-ignorant reader, presumably the target for your metaphor, will be misled.) My advice: Skip the misleading metaphors and simply describe what the Web is (duh!), what a browser is, and what Microsoft is bundling with their OS. Anybody who by now doesn't know what these three items are is too stupid to grasp metaphor, anyway. (Unless it's this: "Like, think of a beer company. The company wants to include a can opener with the beer. Like, they even want to include an automatic opening thing they call a "pop-top." Netscape, a maker of can openers, wants the Justice Department to force Microsoft to remove this pop-top feature so that more people wil have to buy their can opener.") --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 23:26:47 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: FBI to search school shooters computer [CNN] Message-ID: <199801151554.JAA05676@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > SUSPECTED HIGH SCHOOL GUNMAN TO MAKE COURT APPEARANCE > > FBI will search his computer for evidence of motive > > January 15, 1998 > Web posted at: 9:36 a.m. EST (1436 GMT) > > PADUCAH, Kentucky (CNN) -- The teen-age suspect in last month's > Kentucky school shooting was scheduled to make his first public > court appearance Thursday morning, as the FBI announced plans to > search the contents of his personal computer. > > Michael Carneal, 14, is accused of opening fire on an informal > prayer group in the lobby of Heath High School, where he was a > freshman. Three students were killed and five wounded in the > December 1 attack. > > Carneal was indicted as an adult on three counts of murder, five > counts of attempted murder, and one count of burglary. The > commonwealth's prosecutor has said he'll pursue the maximum penalty > of life in prison, which would mean Carneal, if convicted, would > have to serve 25 years before he could be considered for parole. > > In a search for a possible motive into the deadly shootings, the FBI > has agreed to search the contents of Carneal's personal computer. > Lobby Heath High School lobby where the shooting occurred ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Declan McCullagh Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 23:14:08 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Microsoft Metaphors Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain What are the best metaphors to use when talking about a browser and an operating system? Is the combination like a car and an engine, or a car and a roofrack? A pair of gloves? Or is it even useful to talk about a browser/OS metaphor in the case of Microsoft, since IE has been glued into the operating system in the form of .DLLs? Might that be more like the wheels of a car? -Declan From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Julian Assange Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 08:07:24 +0800 To: "James A. Donald" Subject: Re: Crypto Kong penetration. In-Reply-To: <199801142049.MAA02259@proxy4.ba.best.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain "James A. Donald" writes: > -- 2 > Since release there have been a very large number of hits on > the Kong documents, and mere 102 downloads of the program, > and 74 downloads of the source code. > > The large number of source code downloads indicates that I am > only reaching the crypto techie audience, that for the most > part is already able to use PGP, not the non tech audience > that Crypto Kong was designed for. > My first recomendation would be to change the name. Quickly. Cheers, Julian. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Ray Arachelian Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 23:22:20 +0800 To: cypherpunks MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----Original Message----- Subject: IRS/Co$ Secret Agreement web page http://www.primenet.com/~cultxpt/irs-cos.htm The IRS gave the Church of Scientology a sweetheart deal on October 1 1993, granting it privileges that no other tax exempt organization gets. The above web page includes the Secret Agreement, IRS tax code portions at issue, US Supreme Court ruling that the Secret Agreement violates, and other important information. I update it almost daily. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "James A. Donald" Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 02:47:18 +0800 To: Steve Mynott Subject: Re: Crypto Kong penetration. Message-ID: <199801151836.KAA13648@proxy3.ba.best.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -- At 05:31 PM 1/15/98 +0000, Steve Mynott wrote: > Ummm why reinvent the PGP wheel Well I am not "reinventing the wheel". Crypto Kong implements a different identity model. It does not suppose that there are "true names". This leads to substantially easier identity management (largely by abolishing identity management) As a necessary consequence of this, if you happen to be communicating with two different Bob Jones, Crypto Kong does not attempt to discover which one is the one true Bob Jones and which is the evil man in the middle Bob Jones. It merely keeps them distinct by applying different labels to them. Secondly, PGP simply is not being adopted by the masses. Of course right now, two weeks after release, Crypto Kong is not being adopted by the masses either, but with very little identity management, it is far easier for the masses to use. If you try and shove that identity stuff onto people they will not do it. Too much like hard work. They will happily let the government licensed authorities do it for them. The PGP model clearly has not flown yet, and it is not going to fly. --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG mMObRqZXvGz3OkHZyNWBCEGt5ZpZtUG5Y19i3tsX 4SfFX2/pUCYwhAm6n1u5xBLG/xL9LYsSZcznxXI8S --------------------------------------------------------------------- We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this right, not from the arbitrary power of the state. http://www.jim.com/jamesd/ From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Thomas Porter Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 00:11:38 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: re: Microsoft Metaphors Message-ID: <19980115110105.55216@vasili.rlf.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Thu, Jan 15, 1998 at 10:09:09AM -0500, Declan McCullagh thoughtfully expounded: > What are the best metaphors to use when talking about a browser and an > operating system? Is the combination like a car and an engine, or a car and > a roofrack? A pair of gloves? > > Or is it even useful to talk about a browser/OS metaphor in the case of > Microsoft, since IE has been glued into the operating system in the form of > .DLLs? Might that be more like the wheels of a car? I might look at it like air conditioning in a car: If present, it requires significant alterations to the basic vehicle, and might be difficult to remove cleanly, _but_ air conditioning in no way affects the basic operation of the car, and cars can be bought without air conditioning. Hmmmmm, actually A/C does affect the car's operation: uses more gas and degrades performance! A better metaphor than I thought. -- Tom Porter txporter@mindspring.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "I do believe that where there is a choice only between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence." Mahatma Gandhi From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Dan Ritter Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 00:33:08 +0800 To: Jim Choate Subject: Re: Microsoft Metaphors (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801151547.JAA05542@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980115112603.006c5c00@pobox3.bbn.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 09:47 AM 1/15/98 -0600, Jim Choate wrote: > >Forwarded message: > >> Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 10:09:09 -0500 >> From: Declan McCullagh >> Subject: Microsoft Metaphors > >> What are the best metaphors to use when talking about a browser and an >> operating system? Is the combination like a car and an engine, or a car and >> a roofrack? A pair of gloves? > >It seem to me to be like a car and a road map. It simply lets you address >the multiplicity of resources (ie destinations) out there in a convenient >model. A browser is a piece of software. How it is implemented has no effect on what it is: a tool used by people, running on a computer with an OS. The computer is a building. The OS makes it a supermarket. The browser is the map of the store showing what foods are in what aisles. -dsr- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 01:07:50 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: Microsoft Metaphors (fwd) Message-ID: <199801151730.LAA05952@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Hi Dan, Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 11:26:03 -0500 > From: Dan Ritter > Subject: Re: Microsoft Metaphors (fwd) > The computer is a building. A building once built doesn't change and it's a pain in the ass to change the rooms and such. A general purpose stored program computer is intentionaly designed to get around these limitations. Computers before the stored program paradigm most certainly fit the building model however. > The OS makes it a supermarket. The OS provides a multiplicity of resources for me to use (purchase) at my leisure? I don't think so, unless you want to model the user as the company that loads the shelves. In a computer, unlike a store, each time I want to use a jar of tomato paste (program) to build lasagna (job) I don't have to go out and buy a new jar of tomato paste. > The browser is the map of the store showing what foods are in what aisles. That one I'll buy (figuratively). ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "James A. Donald" Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 03:48:22 +0800 To: Ray Arachelian Subject: Re: Crypto Kong penetration. Message-ID: <199801151940.LAA08293@proxy3.ba.best.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -- On Thu, 15 Jan 1998, James A. Donald wrote: >> If you try and shove that identity stuff onto people they >> will not do it. Too much like hard work. They will >> happily let the government licensed authorities do it for >> them. The PGP model clearly has not flown yet, and it is >> not going to fly. At 02:16 PM 1/15/98 -0500, Ray Arachelian wrote: > IMHO, this is pure grade A bullshit. If you included PGP > in MsMail, and Eudora and pine and elm from the get go, > everyone would use it. Proven false by experiment: Observe what happened with Verisign and MIME. The cost is not signing your stuff. The cost is setting up a key and publishing it, and getting other peoples keys and verifying them. Integration with Eudora makes it trivial to sign and to decrypt, *after* you have created and uploaded a key, and downloaded and verified other peoples keys, which is not trivial. People would rather the kindly benevolent government did that hard stuff for them. Verisign/MIME is *already* integrated into everyone's mailers, and they are not using it because Verisign key management is too hard, and Verisign key management is arguably more user friendly than PGP key management, though clearly less user friendly than Crypto Kong's (lack of) key management. --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG s/7IS+OXDf+elZBg6ff+1Sq4aO4aoy9DRhH58rhP 4HFsRTnHTjnMnwGwjenI4jPJsM/0cy02LwoJAtbQ8 --------------------------------------------------------------------- We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this right, not from the arbitrary power of the state. http://www.jim.com/jamesd/ From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Ryan Lackey Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 01:14:51 +0800 To: Dan Fabulich Subject: Re: (eternity) God's Own Backup Medium In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980114172242.006bb0e0@dgf4.mail.yale.edu> Message-ID: <199801151705.MAA03621@the-great-machine.mit.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Dan Fabulich: > I must be insane, because this seems simple to me. Don't listen. It's simple conceptually, just some of the technical details are multi-axis tradeoffs which need to be made explicit. > > Presume that the goal is a secure anonymous storage/retrieval system, paid > for with e$. Armed with a persistent naming system for each document, we > set up e$ protocols to pay for storage of a (possibly encrypted) document > OR to pay for retrieval of a particular named document. I broadcast that I > want up to ten people to store my XMB document and that I'm prepared to pay > $Y/mo. to each participant. My document is then secure for as long as I'm > prepared to pay for it. It is anonymous to the extent that information can > be transferred anonymously between me and the other willing participants; > it is therefore a remailer problem, not an Eternity problem. It's an Eternity problem if you want your eternity system to have better performance than the remailers have. What you really need is a multi-level security infrastructure, where someone (the owner of the data, the individual intermediate server operators, etc.) can choose the level of security they will provide to meet certain Quality of Service levels. Yes, for a lot of the data you're handling, remailers are a good model. However, steganographically-protected streams hidden inside other streams work better for certain things. Perhaps quantum channels work better for other things. Perhaps hand-carried optical tapes are best for others. The system should have a way of handling these formats in a suitably abstract way. > Alternately, if a document is in high demand, someone might offer money to > anyone who can provide a particular document given by name. Any willing > sellers could then exchange information/e$ via e-mail. (One might even > imagine data-traders who would seek out valuable information at a bargain > and sell them to others at market value.) Again, the mechanism is only > anonymous to the extent that e-mail is secure. Which helps both security and performance. A very good mechanism. > > Note that the system is profitable to all of its participants no matter > WHAT the broadcast mechanism is. The more automation, the more profitable. > The more participants, the more profitable. The more information online, > the more profitable. Yes. That's why I'm including market-based techniques in Eternity DDS -- I think market-based arguments are as powerful as statistical ones -- perhaps not as powerful as mathematical/cryptographic proof, but close. > The missing link here, of course, is anonymous e$. Despite the success of > the remailers, I've never been convinced that they're not vulnerable to > traffic analysis. (Possibly this is why no one has ever bothered to shut > them down?) > And even if we COULD set up automated daemons to monitor the broadcasts and > negotiate trades, there's still no good way to distribute money over the net. I know with high confidence there will be a deployed quality anonymous e$ system in 1998. > > At any rate, keeping the system independent of its broadcast medium (which > can be done pretty easily by just making sure that the program communicates > in [encrypted] plaintext,) should make the system autocatalytic... At that > point, just let it run, get as many people running it as possible and let > the market take over. Yes. Both Eternity-USENET and Eternity DDS are only secure once they grow to a certain size. Market pressure is (I think) the best way of getting a system to scale to that size. (Eternity-USENET is vulnerable to technical Denial of Service attacks with the current small number of indexing servers, even if it is protected from legal issues. I think illegal or extralegal attacks are as dangerous as the legal ones) -- Ryan Lackey rdl@mit.edu http://mit.edu/rdl/ From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 04:15:36 +0800 To: "James A. Donald" Subject: Re: Crypto Kong penetration. In-Reply-To: <199801151836.KAA13648@proxy3.ba.best.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 10:36 AM -0800 1/15/98, James A. Donald wrote: >Secondly, PGP simply is not being adopted by the masses. Of >course right now, two weeks after release, Crypto Kong is not >being adopted by the masses either, but with very little >identity management, it is far easier for the masses to use. > >If you try and shove that identity stuff onto people they >will not do it. Too much like hard work. They will happily >let the government licensed authorities do it for them. The >PGP model clearly has not flown yet, and it is not going to >fly. James Donald needs to be arrested. Or at least be threatened with prosecution. I am persuaded that a big, big reason for PGP's success was the threatened, looming prosecution of Phil Zimmemann by forces of the Evil Empire. The many news stories, favorable magazine profiles, and general publicity all caused PGP to be adopted as a kind of "Blue Ribbon Campaign" (a la the CDA). The fact is that most people don't see the need to either secure their messages against eavesdroppers or to sign their messages. But PGP was "cool" and rode the same wave that "Wired" rode. The recent corporatization of PGP, with the mandatory voluntary inclusion of key recovery features in 5.5, and the purchase of PGP, Inc. by Network Associates all signal big changes in this "little guy" image. How successful PGP will be in the future depends on a bunch of factors, but the "coolness" factor has certainly disappeared almost completely. If James Donald wants some similar publicity for Donkey Kong, er, Crypto Kong, then he'll have to arrange some similar publicity stunts. Otherwise it will languish in obscurity. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 04:23:42 +0800 To: Ryan Lackey Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 11:39 AM -0800 1/15/98, Ryan Lackey wrote: >I've put the archives of the Eternity Mailing List (eternity@internexus.net) >up on http://sof.mit.edu/eternity/mail-archive/ > >The mailing list is host to discussion of the theoretical issues behind >Eternity service, Blacknet, Adam Back's Eternity USENET implementation, >and my forthcoming Eternity DDS implementation. > >(7 articles got lost from the archive while I was setting it up. I sent >them to itself as "missing articles 86-92". I'll restore their >original headers at some point.) Thanks for doing this. But I'll point out that I choose to continue to use the Cypherpunks list, as I have since 1992, as the main forum for my own comments. If anyone wants to read my stuff, they are encouraged to subscribe to the Cypherpunks list. I think list proliferation has gotten way, way out of hand. It seems that any time a topic becomes hot, someone decides it needs its own mailing list. Then, as it becomes not quite so hot, volumes drop off the radar screen and the list essentially vanishes. (Any besides me remember the lists devoted to DC Nets? The list "Digital Anarchy"? The list "Digital Liberty"? The "Nym" list?) We have a dozen or so lists all ostensibly covering much the same material, such as Coderpunks, Cryptography, Fight-Censorship, PoliLaw (or somesuch), e$spam, Remailer Operators, Eternity, and probably half a dozen others I have no awareness of, or have forgotten here. Worse, some of these are moderated. (I make it a point not to subscribe to moderated lists unless the reasons are compelling.) --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 05:01:38 +0800 To: Wayne Radinsky Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality In-Reply-To: <01BD2130.FFFF2520@sense-sea-pm6-7.oz.net> Message-ID: <199801152052.MAA08971@netcom11.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain philosophers have struggled with what is moral since the beginning of civilization. at least they are struggling with the question. each new civilization and era gives a new answer to the question, "what is morality", and hopefully each is more evolved than the last, unless humanity is regressing. "what is morality" is obviously something that cannot be settled in cyberspace, it hasn't even been settled by great writers, and there are only mediocre and borderline insane minds in cyberspace >The reason morality is impossible to nail down is because it does not exist al >all in any absolute sense, at least as far as science is concerned. If you dec >lare, for example, that "murder" is "wrong" you are always left with dilemmas, >such as whether soldiers who kill during a war are doing something "wrong". dilemmas do not prove a concept does not exist. there are pretty clear cut cases, and less well clear cut cases. those that have difficulty with the concept of morality will tend to focus on the fuzzy cases and conclude that the whole exercise is a waste of time. >According to the principle of natural selection, all people, including scientis >ts, exist purely to maximize their own inclusive genetic fitness. "Fit" means >that an organism is well adapted to it's environment, so "maximizing inclusive >genetic fitness" means having the maximum number of offspring which are themsel >ves fit. natural selection does however support the idea of altruism. natural selection does not require each individual seek survival. various aspects of the genetic code that lead to survival of the species are what are truly favored. a breed of animals that does nothing but try to kill each other off leads to a situation where each individual is maximizing the odds of its own DNA propagating, no? but how long would such a species survive? and extra credit, to what "animal" am I actually alluding to here? >The underlying reason people benefit by promoting themselves as moral people, i >n general, is because of the benefit of what evolutionary psychologists call re >ciprocal altruism. With reciprocal altruism, both parties benefit if they are >in a non-zero-sum situation. Because most situations are non-zero-sum and the >benefits are so great, everyone has a stake in promoting themselves as a good r >eciprocal altruist, in other words, a good, trustworthy, moral person. This is > how natural selection explains the existence of the concept of "morality". natural selection is relevant among species that have no intelligence or intellectual control over their own destiny. it is only relevant to humans insofar as we wish to behave like animals. >So it is a myth that scientists live to find deep truths or to benefit humanity >. They may do those things, but their real goal is maximizing their own inclus >ive fitness. false, even by your own reasoning, because a scientists DNA does not necessarily lead to more scientist DNA. sons and daughters of scientists may be anything they wish to be in a free country. >The only way out is to believe in the afterlife, and religion, and that life ha >s meaning beyond the genes and material world. Doing so doesn't make moral dile >mmas go away, and you never know, people may just be believing such things for >the benefit of genes, after all natural selection has no real concern for "trut >h". natural selection among animals. and a pretty scary mind that would consider us on that level. I agree there are some vague parallels for human development. but humans do not have children in the mindless way that animals breed, nor hopefully do they live their lives according only to evolutionary instincts, but of course letters like yours tend to make me wonder, and I'm being deliberately ambiguous here by what I mean by that From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 05:11:33 +0800 To: Blanc Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980114191915.007f5990@cnw.com> Message-ID: <199801152104.NAA11122@netcom11.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > >Of course, if people were more moral, we would have institutions which >reflected that integrity. The problem is, how could they be made to become >so, and what type of methods, used toward that end, would be moral? > no one can be "made" to do anything, even in a tyrannical environment. even in a tyranny a person has the choice of disobeying authority. Rand had one way of promoting what she saw as integrity-- writing about it, lobbying about it, philosophizing about it. she was a bit fanatical at times about her beliefs-- which were very much about morality and integrity, only defined in an unusual way. more power to her, I say. a step in the right direction. another way would be to confront publicly those that seem not to care about integrity or morality, engage in a sort of socratean dialogue about it, and let the lurkers decide for themselves if they are really the moral vacuums some appear to be, and whether they (the lurkers) wish to follow that path. goring sacred cows and seeing where the blood flows, so to speak. the public will begin to care about integrity and morality when it realizes that the pain of failing to do so is not worth the immediate gratification the vacuity seems to provide. that this will happen is not assured. (somehow this thread has been sustaining itself on its own, despite my increasing lack of interest as the group mind wanders far from my original points, which again I find obvious and barely worth rebutting.) From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Pearson Shane Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 10:35:47 +0800 To: "'cypherpunks@toad.com> Subject: Symantec Norton, Your Eyes Only. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Hey all, Just wondering what people think of this product? Good, bad or ugly? Is there an international version and a US version? If so, what limitations are in the international version? Many thanks... From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Ray Arachelian Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 03:19:12 +0800 To: "James A. Donald" Subject: Re: Crypto Kong penetration. In-Reply-To: <199801151836.KAA13648@proxy3.ba.best.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Thu, 15 Jan 1998, James A. Donald wrote: > Secondly, PGP simply is not being adopted by the masses. Of > course right now, two weeks after release, Crypto Kong is not > being adopted by the masses either, but with very little > identity management, it is far easier for the masses to use. > > If you try and shove that identity stuff onto people they > will not do it. Too much like hard work. They will happily > let the government licensed authorities do it for them. The > PGP model clearly has not flown yet, and it is not going to > fly. IMHO, this is pure grade A bullshit. If you included PGP in MsMail, and Eudora and pine and elm from the get go, everyone would use it. Poeple use what they have and few learn about what they could use. PGP for the masses has been a widely discussed topic here. Unless you can convice the mailer makers to include Crypto Kong in the mailers, you're not gonna get any mass adoption either. Still it's likely to be much less than PGP anyway since it's already been out for ages. Still there are plenty of plugins for Eudora to do PGP mail, and those who know about it and need it use it. The rest, well, they don't know and won't know until someone snoops their mail and they get a bug up their asses to get privacy. Regardless of how good your program, if you ignore the basic facts and stick to "Crypto Kong has feature X,Y,Z which PGP lacks" you won't get anywhere either. Mind you I'm not comparing PGP, nor Crypto Kong on any feature or security level, just basic human nature. If you get Microsoft to incorporate it in every copy of win 98 and Office, you can bet fuckloads of people will use it. If you can get all the ISP's out there that offer service and software to include it, you can bet a lot of people will use it, etc. =====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos============== .+.^.+.| Ray Arachelian |Prying open my 3rd eye. So good to see |./|\. ..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were |/\|/\ <--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run |\/|\/ ../|\..| "A toast to Odin, |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/. .+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were.... |..... ======================= http://www.sundernet.com ========================== From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Ryan Lackey Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 03:47:51 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com Subject: (eternity) Mailing List Archives Message-ID: <199801151939.OAA01030@the-great-machine.mit.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- I've put the archives of the Eternity Mailing List (eternity@internexus.net) up on http://sof.mit.edu/eternity/mail-archive/ The mailing list is host to discussion of the theoretical issues behind Eternity service, Blacknet, Adam Back's Eternity USENET implementation, and my forthcoming Eternity DDS implementation. (7 articles got lost from the archive while I was setting it up. I sent them to itself as "missing articles 86-92". I'll restore their original headers at some point.) - -- Ryan Lackey rdl@mit.edu http://mit.edu/rdl/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBNL5mBqwefxtEUY69AQFZrAgAhJA1xWUTf4nPKvT17U9tBnrPt2EwP9Hv dx3QruMmZqodAES7ot6h0YQN6Wi/Chw8RosjCqRXZq+zkayUBVX376gTF4i0+Vpf MocwfB8plXTmjfBahcfjb+WxeEuGEefw3BGCGKpYM/y5uZ925GJsq/+R6MeA2FjQ t+RWcqeMbSRAz4T3s8ThPQtr9dIi3dJgh4gEq9aAD+0cH4lOZFAsc3NA8YMWHptR M++ZvHYCLvwm5mb01bNJ9w8BGzU7dVFzxmJfxhZqb+0DJvK++8uQeflSUmILP9uf yXc+O+pYjuW2ho9ozzSlcbbSEPWdyAO03Qaty8bLdxy0DeaFmTWyoQ== =US5o -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Peter Wayner Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 04:23:54 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: BUG Bounty... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain My publisher is reprinting _Digital Copyright Protection_, a book that describes how to use encryption and steganography to control digital data. I get to fix any problems that are out there. To encourage people who may have spotted errors, I'm offering a bounty of $20 to the first person who reports an error subject to the following limitations: * The errors must be technical. I appreciate anyone who wants to correct my grammar, but I think that these types of errors are too hard to pin down. We could spend more time arguing than solving them. * I reserve the right to aggregate errors and determine the right way to split them up. This isn't a loophole, it's just a way to prevent someone from noting a pattern and asking to be paid for each separate occurance. For instance, imagine that someone notes that I forgot to put a page number on a blank page at the front of the book. Is every page number after that wrong? I promise I won't use this as a loophole. * I reserve the right to make arbitrary judgements about the "first" person to submit a claim. This is to prevent a club of people from finding an error and reporting it in synchrony. I may choose to pay each person the $20 reward, choose one I feel is most deserving, or even split the reward n ways. It's up to me. I'll probably choose the first one unless there are extenuating circumstances. Thanks to everyone who takes part in this project. Let me know if you have any questions. In the past, I've found that few people reported the errors and I'm hoping that $20 will be enough of an inducement. Perhaps there are no errors there? This is the best way to prove a negative. Thanks again, Peter Wayner From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: bill.stewart@pobox.com Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 09:16:00 +0800 To: Jim Choate Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980115170713.008b2b90@popd.ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >> What are the best metaphors to use when talking about a browser and an >> operating system? Is the combination like a car and an engine, or a car and >> a roofrack? A pair of gloves? > >It seem to me to be like a car and a road map. It simply lets you address >the multiplicity of resources (ie destinations) out there in a convenient >model. Or maybe a rental truck and a portable storage space. One of Microsoft's big problems is that if what you want to do is haul big stuff from place to place, you don't care what brand of truck/car you use to pull your U-Haul Brand trailer, and similarly if what you want to use is a Web browser with a Java engine that runs platform-independent Java apps, you don't care if it's running on Win95, Linux, SunOS, NintendoJava, or MacNeXTsTep. So they want to sell you that Pickup-mounted camper that only fits on a big Microsoft pickup-truck, as well as selling you some GlueOn Fuzzy Dice that can't be uninstalled cleanly from rental cars so you just buy the truck from them. And they want to give you Internet Exploiter free, so you're stuck with Fuzzy-Dice-Compliant Windows, rather than letting you get used to Java-based browsers that run on anything. Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Ryan Lackey Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 06:19:51 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com Subject: E (the java extension, not MDMA) Message-ID: <199801152210.RAA01721@the-great-machine.mit.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- After someone mentioned "E", Electric Communities (http://www.communities.com/) enhancement to the Java security model/language/etc., I checked it out It looks useful for a distributed agents based system (which is what I'm shooting for...the long-awaited goals mailing will either get sent today or tomorrow, depending on if I fall asleep immediately after sending this). I don't think anyone will argue that it's inherently bad. However, I'm interested in knowing what people think about using a vaguely proprietary product (albeit from a company with lots of cool people) in a piece of software like a reference Eternity implementation. I personally would prefer to stick to something as standard as possible, but E has a lot of features I'd want to use, and would end up re-implementing on my own. (I think if you had a JVM interface to eternity such that an object, its currency, where it should send its results, etc. in a standard form (the standard eternity agent encapsulation) were encapsulated, you could build a lot of Eternity out of interacting agents inside another Eternity implemention, inside ... up to inside a traditional network. (more on this idea later)) So, this is very rambling -- I mostly wonder how people feel about using a fairly non-standard language extension in something like Eternity. Ryan [ObDentistry: Wisdom teeth *really* suck. I want drugs.] - -- Ryan Lackey rdl@mit.edu http://mit.edu/rdl/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBNL6JcKwefxtEUY69AQGs0Qf/TubvdreDInDvT89R8UGHd1TohudBCwYE KWq66zhULQh0YAdn2ZoL4rT9lhxWJ/QE0el8sLxmp9CgjwnMi8l7uA8eKB3RSi0s l6zgx96PJYLvAtI+S7gYcLAKf9RvHH5TzyWpT/WoiePb4Wd8YI0Z3DthdEdd4xMs gKqmyOO6JpX+SPXF89shN33j1LXfFmvq10XWlCW15XLyyA72WwoWbKQHu40uliAd rsM+CRacNN7K3Gc9OV4IWORnmIciZbJ1EZbO8kyZU3YlYvOB+QyZpnaYvFuzyLtS Iyud5WaVVRM7mGn9FS9WwSaxqxMrRRv25FutM9muHmAIufaxnMVeQA== =GQr/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Steve Mynott Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 01:49:27 +0800 To: "James A. Donald" Subject: Re: Crypto Kong penetration. In-Reply-To: <199801142049.MAA02259@proxy4.ba.best.com> Message-ID: <19980115173121.01572@tightrope.demon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Wed, Jan 14, 1998 at 12:49:52PM -0800, James A. Donald wrote: > -- 2 > Since release there have been a very large number of hits on > the Kong documents, and mere 102 downloads of the program, > and 74 downloads of the source code. > > The large number of source code downloads indicates that I am > only reaching the crypto techie audience, that for the most > part is already able to use PGP, not the non tech audience > that Crypto Kong was designed for. Ummm why reinvent the PGP wheel in an exclusively Win32 form? PGP (at least 2.x) has undergone peer review and seems secure. Is that true of your system? I don't wish to sound too negative and there are interesting features (small EC keys for one and smaller signatures). Another interesting and similar program is Pegwit which is portable code and also has these advantages. Pegwit http://ds.dial.pipex.com/george.barwood/v8/pegwit.htm But there is an intrastructure of PGP key servers and most people have PGP keys, already. Maybe we should be building on standards rather than building new ones. Of course PGP isn't GPLed but we will have g10 soon which will be real freeware and developed outside the USA to avoid legal problems ftp://ftp.guug.de/pub/gcrypt/g10-0.1.3.tar.gz Its *very* prebeta but maybe will become the cypherpunk program of choice. There is also a freeware SSH ("Psssst") planned I think by someone else. -- Steve From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Declan McCullagh Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 07:08:45 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Presidential advisor on the "problem of encryption" Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Presidential advisor Jim Steinberg spoke across the street from my office this afternoon at the Mayflower Hotel, addressing the European Institute. He said: ...we will pay a price if the United States and the EU cannot work together effectively to address the problem of encryption in a way that allows our cutting-edge industries to thrive, our citizens to have security in their communications, while at the same time protecting common public security interests. Translation: the government gets a backdoor to your encrypted files. Read on for more. (BTW, Steinberg is deputy assistant to the president for national security affairs. Also Deputy National Security Council Advisor and formerly the director of the State Department Policy Planning Staff.) Background: http://cgi.pathfinder.com/netly/afternoon/0,1012,1626,00.html http://cgi.pathfinder.com/netly/opinion/0,1042,1385,00.html -Declan "We also need to find better ways to harness our efforts to counter the kinds of new crimes looming ahead in the next century. We have made considerable progress through the Summit of the Eight, taking new steps to increase airline security, to protect our infrastructures, to fight cyber-crime and, most important, to promote nuclear safety. We are encouraged that Prime Minister Blair has identified cooperative law enforcement as a major topic for the Birmingham Summit this May. We have been somewhat disappointed that Europe has not strengthened its cooperation with us on the vital third pillar. I am particularly concerned about the lack of enthusiastic support for the U.S.-sponsored international Law Academy in Budapest. Full integration in the Euro-Atlantic community means that all of our police forces must have the confidence to work together against transnational threats. It is vital that the emerging democracies enjoy the rule of law during their transition period, and we will pay a price if the United States and the EU cannot work together effectively to address the problem of encryption in a way that allows our cutting-edge industries to thrive, our citizens to have security in their communications, while at the same time protecting common public security interests. "But the gravest and most immediate challenge before us is to find more common ground between the United States and Europe in dealing with states that threaten our common interests. We have started to fall into a troubling pattern of good cop/bad cop. This pattern, whereby Europe provides the carrot, and the United States is left holding the stick, is unhealthy for both sides, and only benefits our common adversaries. While we all believe that dialogue and engagement are the preferred course, dialogue should not be an excuse for inaction when countries like Iraq fail to live up to Security Council resolutions, and other nations import weapons of mass destruction and export terror. This divergence compromises the effectiveness of our shared efforts." -------------------------------------------------------------------------- POLITECH -- the moderated mailing list of politics and technology To subscribe: send a message to majordomo@vorlon.mit.edu with this text: subscribe politech More information is at http://www.well.com/~declan/politech/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Information Security Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 07:59:22 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: Chris Lewis's death? Message-ID: <199801152323.SAA14920@panix2.panix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain For the majority of you who have killfiled Dr. Dim V., add these killfile keywords: Chris Lewis cauce vznuri@netcom.com "Vladimir Z. Nuri" (nym for Dr. Dim) freedom-knights@jetcafe.org @pgh.org > Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 03:05:56 -0500 > From: "Dr. Zeus" > Reply-To: zeus@alt.net > To: freedom-knights@jetcafe.org > CC: cypherpunks@toad.com, usenet@pgh.org > Subject: Chris Lewis's death? > > > >CAUCE, the enforcement branch of the Internet administration, is dedicated to > > >exterminating all SPAMMERS by any means necessary. CAUCE wants Chris Lewis and > > >all other SPAMMERS dead, and will gladly pay the $50,000 (canadian) reward to > > >whomever KILLS Chris Lewis and his family, who reside in a suburb of Ottawa: > > I think we should leave the family out of this, and instead killing > Chris Lewis, just get him fired from Nortel > > > >After you kill Chris Lewis and his family, please see http://www.cauce.org > > >for information on how to collect your CAUCE reward. > > > > This is fucking censorship! I'm putting the notice of the CAUCE reward on my > > web home page at http://www.panix.com/~guy, right next to the pictures of the > > pre-teen kids screwing. Fuck you, Zorch, you're next after C, P, and G Lewis. > > > > ---guy [ <- forgery ] > > Just6 who is this "guy?" MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Dr. Dim can't even spell. > From: Admin Pgh Plan > X-Sender: pghmain@www3.localweb.com > To: freedom-knights@jetcafe.org > cc: cypherpunks@toad.com > Subject: Re: Chris Lewis's death? > > Let us concentrate on getting Lewis fired > rather than killing him. Killing Nortel > would be a much better idea. Dr. Goober is toothless. ---guy Which is handy, considering his favorite position is kneeling before Dr. Dim. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 10:43:57 +0800 To: Adam Back Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 5:25 PM -0800 1/15/98, Adam Back wrote: >Ryan Lackey writes: >> (Eternity-USENET is vulnerable to technical Denial of Service attacks >> with the current small number of indexing servers, even if it is protected >> from legal issues. I think illegal or extralegal attacks are as dangerous >> as the legal ones) > >Public access servers aren't a good idea. Really people should be >running local access servers only. The index is local, cache is >local, and USENET is a distributed broadcast medium. > >Seems close to ideal to me, the problem being as Tim points out: >bandwidth limitations. The bandwidth limitation is debilitating; to >overcome this we have to relax security, for example by using >remailers rather than USENET for all but indexes of documents. This was my point, and has been for years (though not in the context of "Eternity"). To wit, save the bandwidth for _pointers_, not raw data. To make this concrete, suppose Alice is in possession of a set of photographs of Bill Clinton engaged in sex with his mistresses (Paula Jones, Gennifer Flowers, Tammy Faye Baker, Margaret Thatcher, etc.). The file size is 5 MB. The pointer to this file is _much_ shorter, namely, a text description, and/or possibly a set of blurred thumbnails. And if the file is only occasionally requested (or purchased), it makes no sense to blast it to the Usenet frequently (*). (* And how frequent is frequent, even in Eternity Usenet? I argue there is little point in blasting such files on a weekly basis, say, as even that is *much too slow* for someone who really wants the file NOW. A "call and response" response system, to borrow a phrase from the blues, makes a lot more sense.) Additional dimensions or axes are: how many requestors? and how many suppliers? >One criticism I noticed several people raise was that USENET would be >shut down as a way to kill eternity USENET when something >controversial gets posted. I have not argued this. Usenet is notoriously hard to "shut down." However, it is quite likely that newsgroups carrying vast amounts of "Eternity Usenet" stuff will overload the system and effectively force the newsgroup to not be carried by many sites (just as alt.binaries.pictures.* groups are already excluded from many newsfeeds, for both bandwith/storage and naughtiness reasons). >However it seems to me that the weakest point is the remailer network. >It seems likely that it would be much easier for governments to shut >down the remailer network than it would be to shut down USENET. There >are only around 20 or so remailers, and they all have known IP >addresses, operators, localities, etc. I expect the spooks could shut >them down with less than 1 days notice if they wanted to. Well, I have long argued for the need for thousands of remailers, esp. the "everyone a remailer" model. But, although I agree we need many more remailers, I think Adam overstates the ease with which remailers can be shut down, at least in the U.S. Although there are many "extralegal" atrocities committed in the U.S., as in all countries, consider some "protections" which exist in the U.S. (I am no expert on English common law, so will confine myself to the U.S., where at least I have some knowledge): 1. The First Amendment is incredibly powerful ammunition against a blanket shut down of "speakers" or "publishers." Vast amounts could be written on just this one point. Basically, if the U.S. Government was constitutionally unable to stop even the publication of the Pentagon Papers, how could Joe's Remailer be enjoined from passing along received messages? 2. Even a hypothetical law requiring senders to identify themselves, seen by some as an end to remailers, would be easily surmounted by interpreting remailers as "commenters." By this I mean the following: "Hey, Fred's Commenter Remailer, look at the weird message I just received: lke[i=39023pok=94pk[e=f 3r93ir=-039r=30r9p0ir-3r9i3=r0923= 1-903u-q938-398-9 etc. Any comments on what this means?" In other words, unless the right to _comment_ on a received letter or message is quashed, I can simply comment on such messages. (Of course, Fred's Commenter Remailer would do the same with the next in line.... I mention this not because I think it is likely, but to show the can of worms the government would open if it tried to "ban remailers." 3. Encrypted speech is speech. So long as speech is legal, encrypted speech is legal. Any law limiting encrypted speech is limiting speech (in an overbroad way, not the narrowly defined "shouting fire" cliches). So long as encrypted speech is legal, remailers will be legal. --Tim May > >So, where would blacknet, and eternity USENET be after that? > >How do we improve the resistance of the remailer network to well >resourced attackers intent on dismantling it? > >Adam The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 10:52:42 +0800 To: ravage@ssz.com Subject: Re: Personal webpages can get you fired [CNN] In-Reply-To: <199801160129.TAA08009@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 5:46 PM -0800 1/15/98, Mark Rogaski wrote: >Not all that surprising. If Barrett suggested his pages as an example, >that makes them part of his curriculum. Curriculums that don't fit in >with the Diversity model are usually pretty short-lived. That's a big >"Duh" on his part. And as with the AOL case of Timothy McVeigh (no, not _that_ one) being kicked out of the Navy for labelling himself as "gay" and as a "boy hunter" on one of his AOL profiles, there are already calls for new privacy laws. Which misses the point. By illegalizing the keeping or disclosing of lawfully obtained information, greater harm is done. I heard Nadine Strossen of the ACLU arguing today that more laws are needed to "prevent" these "abuses." In fact, more _technology_ is what's needed. The technology of Web proxies, remailers, nyms, and such. (As to what I personally think about these cases...the Barrett case strikes me as just another PC firestorm, with someone being fired by a scared college for fear of lawsuits by offended womyn and sistas. But Barrett was dumb to tell his students about his non-PC page. As for the McVeigh case, if the Navy allows gay soldiers and sailors....well, I can guess most straights will refuse to volunteer for the Navy. Again, in a corporation or such it should be their right to refuse to accept gays, or straights, or blacks, or whatever they choose. That it is a taxpayer-funded enterprise makes the case much more confusing and, probably, irreconcilable.) --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 09:04:05 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Personal webpages can get you fired [CNN] Message-ID: <199801160129.TAA08009@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Barrett January 15, 1998 > Web posted at: 5:47 p.m. EST (2247 GMT) > > TRAVERSE CITY, Michigan (AP) -- Hired to teach computer technology > at a marketing company, Cameron Barrett suggested his trainees check > out his Web page, where he published his own fiction. > > Some women staff members did, and were shocked by the violent and > sexually explicit passages. > > They complained to their boss, and Barrett was fired. [text deleted] > "Just as people need to watch what they say in real life, what you > put on your Web page is going to be visible to everyone, including > future employers," said Esther Dyson, a director of the Electronic > Frontier Foundation in San Francisco. > > Personal Web pages aren't considered private > > Although the First Amendment prevents the government from stifling > speech, private employers are under no such constraints. > > Companies can fire people for comments deemed inappropriate, and > experts warn that personal Web sites, even if done at home, are > public venues that employers can use to determine who is suitable > for the company. [text deleted] ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Mark Rogaski Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 10:03:40 +0800 To: ravage@ssz.com Subject: Re: Personal webpages can get you fired [CNN] In-Reply-To: <199801160129.TAA08009@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199801160147.UAA24236@deathstar.jabberwock.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- An entity claiming to be Jim Choate wrote: : : Forwarded message: : : > TRAVERSE CITY, Michigan (AP) -- Hired to teach computer technology : > at a marketing company, Cameron Barrett suggested his trainees check : > out his Web page, where he published his own fiction. : > : > Some women staff members did, and were shocked by the violent and : > sexually explicit passages. : > : > They complained to their boss, and Barrett was fired. Not all that surprising. If Barrett suggested his pages as an example, that makes them part of his curriculum. Curriculums that don't fit in with the Diversity model are usually pretty short-lived. That's a big "Duh" on his part. Mark - -- [] Mark Rogaski "That which does not kill me [] wendigo@pobox.com only makes me stranger." [] [] finger wendigo@deathstar.jabberwock.org for PGP key [] anti spambot: postmaster@localhost abuse@localhost uce@ftc.gov -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBNL68EHzbrFts6CmBAQFcNAf9HLlKRRkxU432Auzml50ekYGNJIZX1EXQ LGAccA+wA80/zLq/cDkXPjn2Ce0z6skmI9zQ2a8BNblm1mn4hbHFMVFlffvd2CRj OANASDTxkgwPQcGPSes/CukQ72BYip1aE2CxX2WwgnsKOrMhGGsJ07K7nNhOza3i f8i5N6W/3EHP64pXKOQ2iWVQWzGXTZDW4YHI6DziUD2wXlpphkhoPQUseWA+2W4/ 1ikHP8UKuqE+UXpBUKFNyjVYDhdlKDUiHlOcAj1OnGJGNL4JBxa/6jeZFOA1oCdO tT9Orsco8pXoezP5rrajqHJ453RWSZUcxCoC0BDev0XjHEARd/nm/A== =TA1+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: TruthMonger Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 14:24:58 +0800 To: president@whitehouse.gov Subject: I'm going to count to ten... Message-ID: <34BEF573.1221@dev.null> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain BadBillyC, I thought you'd finally come to your senses. The headline read, "Clinton Urges Feinstein To Run." Delighted, I scanned the page for the picture of you pumping a round into the riot gun, with a caption quoting you as saying, "I'm going to count to ten..." Sadly, upon reading the accompanying news blurb, it became apparent that the women in your life give you just as much trouble when you're keeping Little Peter out of the relationship, as they do when you let him bend you to his will. Jesus, BillyC, where do you get these broads? It's par for the course for a politician to have the morals of a two dollar whore, but when they have the brains and the heart of a two dollar whore, as well, then you can't hang out with them without "gettin' some on'ya." As far as that mutt-faced, child-murdering bitch in Justice goes, I assumed that Buddy was brought in to replace her, but I was wrong again. If that dumb Nazi cunt keeps popping up in the SunSite GunSight I've got trained on BadBillyG, then I'm going to take care of her sorry ass by telling BillyG how to tie her tubes in a knot. 1. Buy the Branch Davidian compound in Waco, and begin construction on the new MicroSoft Headquarters Building. 2. Place media ads suggesting that the citizens of Redmond consider sending their children to a safer location until the DOJ action against MicroSoft has reached a conclusion. 3. Hold employee fire drills twice a day, and give visitors to MicroSoft Headquarters a sheet containing safety instructions in the event of an armed government assault during their visit. 4. Train bright lights and blaring loudspeakers on the MicroSoft Compound several times per day, in order to prepare employees for possible government action. Think I'm kidding, Bubba? NEWS FLASH!!! San Francisco Chronicle / January 13, 1998 / Page C1 SUN FOCUSES IN ON NT MARKET - New Unix workstations priced as low as $3,000 Sun Microsystems today will launch a new line of inexpensive workstations aimed at blunting the spread of powerful Windows NT desktop computers in the high-profit technical market. ... Golly, gee. The poor bastards are being forced by BadBillyG to offer their products at a reasonable price in order to get a share of the market. Isn't life hard... After years of waiting for these pricks to begin facing enough competition to have to come down off of their high-horse and deliver a product at a price the average joe could at least contemplate, the DOJ is trying to put a lid on the competitor who is delivering the goods for a reasonable price. Netscape? I got MicroSoft Exploiter for free, but I still use Netscape, which I also got for free. Buy Netscape? Kiss my lily-white ass, Bubba. I pay for the son-of-a- bitch every time it takes me five minutes, instead of one, to download the ton of advertising on a website that is brought to me courtesy of the wonderful browser folks who are designing their software for corporate advertising and sales departments, instead of for my benefit. Let's get our cards on the table here, BillyBob. I'm sure that you're getting some good campaign-contribution mileage out of the Micro$not Ba$her Coalition, and would like to squeeze M$ for a good chunk of change, as well, but there is a serious flaw in your game-plan. For starters, BadBillyG already gets much of what he wants by working the actual power-points in the corporate/political structure, instead of fucking away large amounts of time, money and energy on the power-players who may or may not be able to control those who actually control the power-points. Secondly, you cannot be certain that myself or some other lunatic will not storm M$ Corporate Headquarter$ and take the employee$ ho$tage, demanding that BillyG donate a million dollar$ a day to the Democratic Election Campaign to guarantee their $afe release. While the public is willing to pretend that the anti-trust action is for their benefit, I sincerely doubt that they are willing to be made fools of by denying the obvious implication that such an action would be consistent with current political maneuvers, but infinitely more direct and honest than the maze of deceit and lies that those currently in power use to achieve the same ends. I am beginning to froth at the mouth and drool on myself, so I suppose that I should get to the point, and sign off shortly. Bottom line: Look out of your office window. Do you see the sniper, sitting on the rooftop of... OK, just kidding... Seriously, I am certain that there are millions of sheeple who slapped their foreheads and proclaimed, "Who'da thunk it?", when they read such recent news headlines as: "Nixon Knew!" "Joe Camel Designed To Lure Teens!" "Scientists Discover Earth is Round!" The point is, there are also a few chosen individuals (presumably including yourself, but not necessarily Dan Quayle) who had already figured these things out for themselves, long before the mainstream media pronounced them as officially acceptable reality-bytes. Some of these selected individuals belong to agencies, organizations and groups which overtly or covertly work within the established socio- politico-economic structure to guide and direct the future of society, government, civilization, and human development. And some of them work outside of, or within-yet independent of-the officially established structures... I am certain you are aware that there are certain individuals and organizations who have been actively preparing to take advantage of the increasingly popular boogeyman known as the 'Millennium Bug', while keeping quiet about it so as not to alert others as to the true import of the problem in regard to the radical nature of the changes which will accompany it in the socio-politico-economic arenas of society. What you are undoubtedly unaware of, however, is that most of the major players within the established power-structure are sucking hind-tit to a variety of techno-guerilla cells formed many years ago to influence and/or counteract the activities of those who were making plans to manipulate the situation to benefit the few and the powerful. The importance of these individuals is not in the particular nature or scope of their activity, but in the fact that they are quite simply volunteers who, unasked, have separated themself from the crowd around them and committed themself to 'charging the hill' that they see needs to be taken in order to provide safety and protection for their fellow soldiers. One of these individuals is a soldier who was taken prisoner and interred in a German prison camp in 1943. The fact of the matter is, he was a German national of French descent who robed himself in the uniform of a fallen aviator in order to get himself incarcerated for the purpose of helping Allied prisoners of war to escape and successfully find their way to safety. The man was a shipping clerk who knew nothing of war, the military, or the like, but who did what he felt must be done, despite his obvious unsuitability and inexperience for the task. What I will never forget is the puzzled look I saw on his face when someone tried to express sympathy for the trials and tribulations he faced as a result of his actions. His answer was to the effect that, "It was the price to be paid for the decision I made...I knew that going in. It was the price of freedom." The point I am trying to make is that the DOJ actions against M$ could probably be described by reference to a song I once wrote about a cross-eyed girl, titled, "If Looks Could Kill, You'd Only Be Hurting Yourself." The IRS, Treasury Department and the IMF are going to have all they can handle just trying to tread water when the Millennium Bug throws a good screw into their butts. BadBillyG and the Micro$not Exploiter Bowling Team are going to take home their share of the New Millenium trophies, but Blanc Weber and Jeff Sandquist are crazy-gluing enough of the pins to the floor to make sure that the employees of Nut$crape and $un can still put shoes on their childrens' feet. (I've got to admit that your spin doctors are doing a damn fine job of building public sympathy for corporate executives who earn more in a year than Jane and Joe Public will earn in a lifetime.) In closing, I would like to assure the members of the various government and private agencies involved in investigating me as a result of my thinly veiled virtual-death-threats against sundry world leaders and titans of industry that their efforts are not a waste of time. I honestly consider myself a viable prospect as a corporate/political assassin--it's just that circumstances invariably arise which preclude my acting on what I instinctively know to be the right course of action. In essence...I'm only human. From the corporate perspective, I knew years ago that IBM executives deserved to die a slow and horrible death, but I could never quite bring myself to overcome my resistance to destroying some truly great suits in the process. I have had BadBillyG in my gunsights and headlights several times over the years, but I would always back off when overcome by the urge to tickle him under the chin, and call him "little feller." As far as politics goes... I couldn't whack Nixon because he was so patently evil that his ultimate destiny is to be reincarnated as himself, and nothing I could do to him could compare to that. Gerald Ford wasn't worth the trouble, since it seemed likely that he would kill himself by bumping his head on some inanimate object, anyway. Jimmy Carter never really existed, politically, as far as I was concerned. One of us slept through his administration, and I think it was him... Reagan...after his statement that "Trees cause more pollution than automobiles.", it would have been like whacking out a retarded kid. It was no accident that a movie actor was the target of an assassination by someone who watched one too many movies. I washed my hands of his involvement in the American political structure by writing a song called, "Don't Blame Me, I Voted For The Monkey..." George Bush was a conspiracy theorist's dream. He had so much shit on his stick that the wise move was to leave him alone until his tenure was in the history books, and then lay out a documented trail leading from the financial source of his backing originating in profits from Nazi business dealings during World War II --> to his bald-faced audacity in trumpeting the rejuvenation of the Third Reich's 'New World Order.' (But, when Bush was President, "...the trains ran on time.") Then, we have 'Slick Willie'. Apologies in advance, but you have pretty much been nailed as a dope-smoking, draft-dodging, drug-dealing adulterer who has a history of questionable business dealings ranging from real-estate fraud to selling post-mortem military honors to people who died fucking their brains out in the Lincoln bedroom in return for illegal campaign contributions. My gut instinct tells me that there have probably been dozens of potential assassins who have had you lined up in their gunsights, only to see your silly grin and realize that you are not a whole lot different from themselves. "To him who does what within him lies, God will not deny his grace." ~Saint Thomas Acquinas Nixon was a ratfucker, plain and simple. He didn't really *need* to do the things that he did--he did them because he was willing to sell his soul in order stretch every mile gained by legitimate effort an extra inch or two by taking the dark path. The fact of the matter is, the Presidency requires an individual who is capable of being a two-faced, double-dealing ratfucker when the situation requires it, but Republicans seem to do it for the money, while Democrats generally seem to be more attuned to the emotional ramifications of the illusory power of the position. i.e. - a Rolling Stone music critic once stated that the power in the music played by Southern Bad-Boy Rockers came from the fact that they genuinely believed that they were going to burn in Hell for playing Rock & Roll, but they knew that doing so was in their blood and their destiny. Do you ever find yourself blowing out bad-ass pelvic-motion darkie- licks on the saxaphone, and wondering how in the hell you managed to have this much fun and still scam your way into being elected as one of the most powerful political figures in the allegedly free world? Do you ever wonder why lunatics such as myself give you so much shit over promoting Nazi cunts like Reno and FineSwine, when Hillary did some genuinely fine work in regard to health care and still got broad-sided by statists (both male and female) who thought that there was something inherently sinful in her not suggesting that her ideas could be made financially feasible by holding a bake sale? (I voted for Geraldine Ferraro, but only because I figured that we wouldn't have to pay her as much as a man.) BTW, I just received a letter from Chelsea, and she thanked me for my compliments on her butt, but told me she didn't think it was proper to date a psychopath who was stalking her father with a Stihl chainsaw. (So there is little need for you to lose a lot of sleep over the prospect of having to invite me for Thanksgiving dinner, and call me "son.") I also sent a letter a few weeks ago to Ted Kaczynski, offering to carry on his work while he is incarcerated. I got a letter back from him today, but I'm afraid to open it... Anyway, I realize that I'm starting to babble incoherently, and need to go take my medication, so I'll close by giving you a few words of wisdom, in case there's a chance that you're banging the White House staff person hired to screen your email. Re: Allowing the DOJ to perform a rim-job on BillyG... BadBillyG has the brains to realize that he only has to hang on for another 12 months, or so, before the Wonderful World of Computers is up to their ass in alligators over the Year2000 bug. If you truly believe that an individual who became the richest person in the world by promoting a fairly mediocre operating system is going to bend over and lift his robe while the dipshits who were incapable of competing with him (even when they had software and operating systems vastly superior to his) scramble to make their Y2K-non-compliant software comatible with their bum-buddy's Y2K-non-compliant software... I have some ocean-front property in Tucson, Arizona. Re: The poor, put-upon souls competing with Micro$not... It has been confirmed by extensive research that the future can be reliably predicted by taking note of the actions and reactions of the lunatic and criminal elements of society. I happen to qualify on both counts... I enjoy the living shit out of Micro$not Ba$hing, but it pisses me off when the government does it... I will kiss your lily-white ass if you can prove to me that the goddamn whiners bitching about BillyG's profits are not pulling down millions of dollars a year themselves. BillyG has a hundred billion dollars? I don't care if he has a fucking trillion dollars...those other whining fucks DO NOT have a God-given right to get filthy rich by keeping the price of their products inflated through the stifling of competition from Micro$not. What, exactly, is Nut$crape'$ complaint? That if Micro$not gives away InteNet Exploiter for free, that they cannot force me to pay to acquire a product that is designed to deliver commercial advertising to my screen when I surf the Net? Fuck those assholes... What, exactly, is $un Micro$ystem'$ complaint? That they have to produce products that don't cost ten times what Micro$not's products cost, in order to capture a decent market-share? Fuck those assholes... FRESH FROM THE CLUESERVER!!! I'm a fucking lunatic. I've had enough electricity run through my brain to keep Las Vegas in business for a decade. I require intense medication to keep from chewing on the rug and barking at the moon. Nonetheless, I was promoting and addressing computer issues in the 80's that are being recognized as essential to the future of technology at the close of the 90's. And what you should find *really scary* is that there are sane, functional people out and about in your world who not only know all that I do, and more, but who are in a position to throw a serious fuck into the heart of any technology system that the powermongers are counting on to promote their narrow self-interests over those of the general public. On a recent trip between B.C. and California, I stopped off in Micro$not Land long enough to vandalize the computer system in one of their offices so that their faxes to certain locations would translate the words "Bill Gates" into "Little Feller." Mission Impossible-->Mission Complete. Let me explain this as simply as possible. When the clock strikes 2000, many corporate and government agencies can kiss thier software functionality goodbye. Many of the companies who believe they are in a position to take advantage of the situation will find that small anomalies exist in their systems which will take tens of thousands of man-hours to resolve (only to discover that the 'solution' leads to another anomaly of the same nature). Keep in mind that what I am describing is only a small part of a process that began in 1989, with a computer manifesto which contained the words, "His Login is Panic, His Password is Crash. When Time is of Essence, He'll Rise from the Ash." These words were written by a computer neophyte who recognized the path the future would take, but who had no idea what could be done to counteract the evil he foresaw. Others *did* know what could be done...and more... The Y2K problem is quickly gaining recognition as a factor that will lead to monumental changes in the process of separating the winners from the losers in the coming Millennium. What is recognized by only a select few is that there are other considerations which have been programmed to go hand-in-hand with the Y2K problem which will have even greater influence on who will emerge in the next Millennium as the chief movers and shakers of society, government and civilization. In 1989, the Author wrote, "Gomez is coming." In 1998, the Author arrived for gomez's funeral the day before he was assassinated. The timing of his arrival was dependent upon the information he received from Netizens he didn't know, and had never met. Netizens who had ears to hear, and had acted on his warnings in ways which went far beyond the ken of his own understanding of the prophecies which he spoke. The Author neither knew nor cared about the source or intentions of those who had directed him to travel to Berkeley in time to say a last goodbye to his friend and mentor. Neither did he know or care how or why he instinctively knew that upon opening the letter he received from the alleged UnaBomber, that his brains would be splattered upon the wall behind him, forming the words, "TRIN--The Revolution Is NOW!" I'm Going To Count To Ten... ~~~~~~~~~~~ TruthMonger ~~~~~~~~~~~ From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 11:37:45 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Number Theory on Computers book... Message-ID: <199801160402.WAA08670@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Hi, If you're looking for a good beginners book for number theory that is focused on using computer programs (BASIC) then check out: Exploring Number Theory w/ Microcomputers Donald D. Spencer ISBN 0-89218-113-3 (note I couldn't find w/ this, had to use the title) $24.95 Camelot Publishing PO Box 1357 Ormond Beach, FL 32175 904-672-5672 I ordered mine through Bookstop and should take 4-8 weeks for delivery. There is a teachers manual available as well (I suspect it is answers only) for $15.95 ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Blanc Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 15:07:49 +0800 To: Declan McCullagh Subject: Re: Microsoft Metaphors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980115230112.0087a340@cnw.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain The new upcoming version of Windows gives the user the choice of using Internet Explorer as the main interface for access to the desktop icons, the computer files, internet services like AOL, or web pages. It is still the user's choice to use Win95 as they are accustomed to - they must manually select this option in order to use it - but it is a new way of using Internet Explorer, for more than just viewing web pages. You could say it is becoming the window from which to view the rest of the rooms in the house, including what's beyond, outside of it. .. Blanc From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Toto Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 16:51:52 +0800 To: Privacy Admin Subject: Re: Forwarding remailer-ops posts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <34BF065B.3F43@sk.sympatico.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Privacy Admin wrote: > > On Thu, 15 Jan 1998, Mark Berry wrote: > > > Just a quick question... Does anyone object to their posts to this list > > being forwarded (to cypherpunk type lists)? I will honour any requests not > > I object since it would likely increaes the volume of the mailing list, > which was designed to be low-volume (IMHO) so that all remailer operators > would bother to read it. Those operators who do not already read > cypherpunks may not welcome the increase of flaming, wildly tagentantal > material and plenty of petty bickering. Only an asshole without the brainpower to recognize the importance of open discussions of Tanya Harding's chances of forging a new career in the WorldWide Wrestling Federation would also fail to recognize that differences of opinion over the size of jockey shorts that Chris Lewis should be required to wear is essential to the future of the IntereNet. Privacy Admin (if that is your *real* name...) would be well advised to consider the astronomical rise in cost of InterNet access that could result from AOL'ers learning to successfully unsubscribe from mailing lists, instead of subsidizing the rest of us by paying exhorbitant fees to send multiple messages saying, "I'm SERIOUS! Unscribvive me from this fucking mailing list or I will keep complaining, instead of buying a clue!" If the foregoing doesn't seem to make sense, it's OK, because I am a list scibviver. (Although I have been unsuccessfully trying to ubscrivive for the last several months.) Tojohoto From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Toto Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 16:48:41 +0800 To: Richard Johnson Subject: Re: Forwarding remailer-ops posts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <34BF11B2.4206@sk.sympatico.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Richard Johnson wrote: > > At 12:33 -0700 on 1/15/98, Mark Berry wrote: > > Hi to all members of the list > > > > Just a quick question... Does anyone object to their posts to this list > > being forwarded (to cypherpunk type lists)? ... > I don't really care about my own posts, should I make some. I worry, > however, about drawing in the kooks. > Richard My name isn't Richard, but I'm still a Dick... I agree that we should worry about drawing in the kooks who have little experience in proper construction of an aluminum-foil hat capable of drowning out the voices that try to twist our minds into believing that the purpose of operating a remailer is to provide a forum for unfettered communication, when Rush Limbaugh and Chris Lewis recognize that the true purpose of running a remailer is to block spam and UCE's. Even more frightening is the prospect that a US citizen might go so far as to use a remailer to send a message to the Whitehouse that men licensed to use guns against the citizens might find objectionable. Those who have never operated a remailer fail to realize that the main goal of a remailer-operator should not be to provide a non-discriminatory forwarding service for anonymous users, but to ensure continued operation by not ruffling the feathers of upstream providers, and to provide a spam/UCE filtering service for computer users who have foolishly spent their money purchasing email software which does not allow them to quickly and easily set up their own self-defined email filters. It has long been my contention that if a child being molested by 'Uncle Jim' is too fucking lazy to learn how to use PGP in order to help remailer operators cut down on spam, then they deserve every ounce of seminal fluid forced down their throat by 'Uncle Jim' and the guys who live in the dumpster behind the Greyhound station and are willing to share their bottle of Thunderbird with anyone who has access to vulnerable young children. Of course, I'm a pedophile, so I could be a bit biased in this regard. TotoHomoLoco From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Adam Back Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 10:04:58 +0800 To: ravage@ssz.com Subject: Re: (eternity) Covert Superhighway - the missing component? (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801141553.JAA01099@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199801160014.AAA00557@server.eternity.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Jim Choate writes: > Adam Back : > > - post to random newsgroups, use textual mimic functions, send > > decryption keys after the stegoed data has been distributed to > > disguise data until it is too late to affect distribution > > Isn't this going to increase latency and increase the likelihood of both > sureptitious attacks (I notice the request in newsgroup A and begin putting > my mitm requests in the other newsgroups - the odds being that I will get > the data and then forward to the original recipient with small changes) as > well as must plain missing the request? It will increase latency yes. It will also make the attackers job harder. If you are talking about posting requests it sounds like you are describing Eternity BlackNet, eternity USENET basically acts like a FAST-TEXT TELETEXT system -- keeps the most recent copy of pages as they are updated, there is no request to post because the reader acts entirely passively, and is harder to trace because he is passive. > > When people can buy a T1 to their house for Ł2,000/yr instead of > > Ł20,000, we will stand a better chance. > > SWBT will currently sell T1 access to homes for as little as $214/mo. Would > you settle for $2,568/yr.? Note that this price doesn't include routing and > name resolution. I'm still (3 months later) trying to get SWBT to tell me > how much they will charge for this - they supposedly offer it but I have yet > to find an actual business office that support home delivery of service. I don't know who SWBT are, but I suspect they don't offer service in the UK. If they did at that price I would have them install the T1 tomorrow. Adam From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Steve Schear Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 16:35:46 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: RSA Conference: Deterence measures for SPAM Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Kevin McCurley, IBM, delivered a paper on using electronic commerce techniques (i.e., d-postage) to deter SPAM. He cites a work by Cynthia Dwork and Moni Naor, "Pricing via Processing or Combatting Junk Mail," http://www.wisdom.weizmann.ac.il/Papers/trs/CS95-20/abstract.html I wan't able to access that paper and would be interested to know how similar their appraoch is to HashCash. --Steve From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Declan McCullagh Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 13:32:30 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Indiana state court rejects privacy claim in HIV case Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain So I just got done reading the decision in Doe v. Methodist Hospital, a recent case before the Indiana Supreme Court. (Thanks to Eugene for pointing it out.) The case involved a woman who truthfully told someone else a third party was HIV positive. She did not break any laws to learn this information; someone else told her. The HIV-positive man's suit against her relied on the so-called tort of disclosure of private facts. (There are four privacy torts: intrusion upon seclusion; appropriation of likeness; public disclosure of private facts; false-light publicity.) The plaintiff could not charge her with libel or slander since what she said was true. The judges referenced an oft-cited 1890 Warren-Brandeis article that popularized the idea of suing reporters (and others) for violating your privacy if they said truthful things about you. The authors seemed mainly concerned with muzzling journalists and censoring the press, the court noted: The invasion of privacy tort had its genesis in an 1890 law review article by Boston attorney Samuel Warren and his former law partner--and future Supreme Court Justice--Louis Brandeis. An impetus for it seems to have been the press's coverage of Warren's wife's social gatherings "in highly personal and embarrasing detail." The reports covering their daughter's wedding were apparently more than the Warrens' sensibilities could bear... The authors criticized the press for "overstepping in every direction the obvious bounds of propriety and decency." They were concerned that truthful reporting about "private" affairs was causing "a lowering of social standards and of morality."... A cause of action for invasion of privacy would chill the press from reporting "unseemly gossip." The Indiana court ruled, in a plurality opinion (joined by a concurrence): [w]e do not discern anything special about disclosure injuries. Perhaps Victorian sensibilities once provided a sound basis of distinction, but our more open and tolerant society has largely outgrown such a justification. In our "been there, done that" age of talk shows, tabloids, and twelve-step programs, public disclosures of private facts are far less likely to cause shock, offense, or emotional distress than at the time Warren and Brandeis wrote their famous article. The court flatly rejected and refused to recognize the tort of disclosure of private facts. It upheld the lower court's decision to grant summary judgment to the woman who was sued. In other words: you're allowed to speak the truth. The court even noted that gossip is socially useful. Score a minor victory for free speech and freedom of the press over so-called "privacy" laws. -Declan From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Spam Prevention Remailer Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 16:48:23 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Automated Rejection Notice In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <34BF19F7.7BF6@dev.null> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Dear Remailer User, This automated reply is for the purpose of informing you why your message was rejected by our remailer filtering software. Rejection Message #17: Your remailer request was rejected because header analysis indicated that it contained an unsolicited commercial message. Rejected Email: > From: delicateflower@basement.com > To: Spam Prevention Remailer > Subject: Make $$$ Fast !!! > > Anon-To: child-abuse@hotline.com > > Help! > I am a ten year old girl being forcibly confined against my will > in a kidnapper's basement at 1040 E. Munroe, in Seattle, WA. > The sick pervert who kidnapped me is allowing his friends to rape > me in return for large sums of money which he keeps in the basement > room in which I am being held. > Anyone who takes pity on me and comes to my rescue can Make $$$ Fast > by pocketing the great pile of cash that this sick pervert has > accumulated by profiting from my suffering and abuse. > > Please help. > > Jon Polly Bonet-Klaus-Ramsey From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Mark Rogaski Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 13:50:05 +0800 To: tcmay@got.net (Tim May) Subject: Re: Personal webpages can get you fired [CNN] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801160534.AAA25032@deathstar.jabberwock.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- An entity claiming to be Tim May wrote: : : And as with the AOL case of Timothy McVeigh (no, not _that_ one) being : kicked out of the Navy for labelling himself as "gay" and as a "boy hunter" : on one of his AOL profiles, there are already calls for new privacy laws. : : Which misses the point. By illegalizing the keeping or disclosing of : lawfully obtained information, greater harm is done. : : I heard Nadine Strossen of the ACLU arguing today that more laws are needed : to "prevent" these "abuses." In fact, more _technology_ is what's needed. : The technology of Web proxies, remailers, nyms, and such. : This issue was covered in _The Right to Privacy_ by Ellen Alderman and Carolyn Kennedy. The book was misplaced during my recent move, and I didn't get very far through it. I do remember that the current legal standard for invasion of privacy depended upon whether the information was gathered from a public medium. A psychiatric evaluation or Telco records would not be considered a public forum, so could not be used by an employer (unless the evaluation was given by the employer, I guess). A web page, on the other hand is about as public as you can get. I would agree that with the right technologies (proxies, remailers, etc) there would be a de facto protection of privacy, and (insert the not-even-close-to- a-lawyer disclaimer here) that there should be some legal basis that since the effort was made to hide the True Name, the content could not be used, if there were a compromise. Looks like a win-win. It still doesn't deal with morons who *provide* their employers with the ammo to terminate employment. You can make a system foolproof, but you can't make it damnfoolproof. Mark - -- [] Mark Rogaski "That which does not kill me [] wendigo@pobox.com only makes me stranger." [] [] finger wendigo@deathstar.jabberwock.org for PGP key [] anti spambot: postmaster@localhost abuse@localhost uce@ftc.gov -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBNL7xbXzbrFts6CmBAQG6YQgAhywAsGpbDIBY/5h/KSLG+C4BdpYuqIOD Gg1Zy/05gB02+Ap2o7YOpx5pP92iG4uWnYNlUcq6tf+83atd5Y0fvHEnuS5GinQX mdZ8HqZMNR/XaVH+J/BLWcWPjWWGYnI7Zms/3VFvE5tA+0KVX3lKBqpTiCRCOIZi pqInONdqo1derBidHiM0KEcfZJ6zwecaS164NgmKI7/+akDSauK/ja44sKc+4bLI Qfaamrm9pXPKNvc+WOMMNzjNpwzqemfpobDsB3morIcn/eJa/1sE3H2NwnMKvOLY bNhXjfj9P5FNiMqJMHeKMX0vVJGPp3B72y0QEJwpaR5LHst792KF1w== =WPJ3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Adam Back Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 10:03:32 +0800 To: rdl@mit.edu Subject: remailer resistancs to attack In-Reply-To: <199801151705.MAA03621@the-great-machine.mit.edu> Message-ID: <199801160125.BAA00650@server.eternity.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Ryan Lackey writes: > (Eternity-USENET is vulnerable to technical Denial of Service attacks > with the current small number of indexing servers, even if it is protected > from legal issues. I think illegal or extralegal attacks are as dangerous > as the legal ones) Public access servers aren't a good idea. Really people should be running local access servers only. The index is local, cache is local, and USENET is a distributed broadcast medium. Seems close to ideal to me, the problem being as Tim points out: bandwidth limitations. The bandwidth limitation is debilitating; to overcome this we have to relax security, for example by using remailers rather than USENET for all but indexes of documents. One criticism I noticed several people raise was that USENET would be shut down as a way to kill eternity USENET when something controversial gets posted. However it seems to me that the weakest point is the remailer network. It seems likely that it would be much easier for governments to shut down the remailer network than it would be to shut down USENET. There are only around 20 or so remailers, and they all have known IP addresses, operators, localities, etc. I expect the spooks could shut them down with less than 1 days notice if they wanted to. So, where would blacknet, and eternity USENET be after that? How do we improve the resistance of the remailer network to well resourced attackers intent on dismantling it? Adam From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 08:46:57 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Re: Microsoft Metaphors Message-ID: <199801160041.BAA12637@basement.replay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain declan@well.com wrote: > What are the best metaphors to use when talking about a browser > and an operating system? Is the combination like a car and an > engine, or a car and a roofrack? A pair of gloves? In this specific case it's more like garbage in a trash can. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Adam Back Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 10:04:14 +0800 To: tcmay@got.net Subject: Re: mirroring services, web accounts for ecash In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801160153.BAA00672@server.eternity.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Tim May > Here's a meta-question: Suppose one holds highly secret or sensitive data, > for which one wants to use an Eternity service to ensure the information is > not suppressed by some government or other actor. > > Why centralize the data at all? > > Why not just use the "pointer" to the data and offer to provide it? > > Which is what Blacknet was all about. Instead of focussing on a data base, > focus instead on an untraceable market mechanism. I am more and more seeing the similarities between BlackNet and Eternity USENET. The only real difference that I can see is that for E-USENET I have been talking about periodically broadcasting the data to allow very high security for the reader, and also the idea of keeping a local copy of the documents so that data is pre-fetched to speed up accesses. Both designs are relying heavily on the anonymity provided by remailers. For very high risk traffic, even using mixmaster remailers may be risky due to the various active attacks which could be mounted by a well resourced attacker with ability to selectively deny service. An eternity service or blacknet information provider could frustrate the active attacker by having many software agents with different network connectivity and using these resources unpredictably. > (I admit that a system which can provide *A LOT* of data *VERY > FAST*, and also untraceably or unstoppably, is an attractive goal. > [...] The catch is that I can't see how such a system will get > built, who will run the nodes, how payment will be made to pay for > the nodes and work, and how traffic analysis will be defeated.) One big opportunity we have is to subvert protocols of new services. A distributed web replacement with ecash payment for page hits I think is plausible. Web pages could migrate to meet demand. You could have a hot-potatoe effect, where high risk documents are not kept for long -- bits move faster than government agents and lawyers -- hot data could migrate every 10 minutes. However distributed web replacements are complex to design, and whether it will be possible to deploy the system widely is an open question. > And I think implementing the slower-but-no-breakthroughs approach (Blacknet > or variations) has some advantages. It may be many years before we need to > be in the corner of the graph that is "large amounts of data--very fast > retrieval--very secure." > > Most candidates for untraceable/secure storage and retrieval are NOT in > this corner, yet. (Kiddie porn may be, but whistleblowing and scientific > information are not.) What about large scale software piracy. This could consume serious amounts of bandwidth. This seems to be intermediate risk in that if one observes even 30 seconds of traffic in #warez, one observes lots of commercial software trading hands. Perhaps the new draconian US software copyright law which the large software corps purchased from the politicians will move software piracy towards the higher risk end. Would the world be better off without software copyright? I tend to think so. Adam From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: mws@conch.net (NNS) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 07:35:40 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Add me to the mailing list Message-ID: <34c9c1ce.20262373@mail.conch.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain mws@conch.net From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Robert A. Costner" Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 18:05:37 +0800 To: Adam Back Subject: Re: remailer resistancs to attack In-Reply-To: <199801151705.MAA03621@the-great-machine.mit.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980116045037.031a4b40@mail.atl.bellsouth.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 01:25 AM 1/16/98 GMT, Adam Back wrote: >How do we improve the resistance of the remailer network to well >resourced attackers intent on dismantling it? An obvious thing to try is to add some more remailers. 300 remailers would not be immune to simultaneous shutdown by the authorities, but it would make it more difficult. A dozen of so remailers makes shutdown fairly simple. A less obvious thing to try is to get the general windows users to start making use of remailers. If Eudora, Pegasus, and Outlook came nym ready out of the box, with the ease of use of a spell checker, then this would generate enough traffic to flood the remailer network and require hundreds of servers. This idea has it's own problems, but there is not much traffic on remailers. One of the busiest remailers in the world still has only about 3,000 messages per day. One spammer can send mail to more destinations in a weekend than the entire remailer network in a year. Threats to the remailer network come from a few basic places. 1. Traditional law enforcement 2. Unauthorized law enforcement 3. "friends" of message recipients or "friends" of the remailer 4. unreliability of the machines that form the network 5. Hacking attacks 6. Design 7. User incompetence Of the above, the most dangerous in my opinion is "friends". This is what shut Balls down. This is where Cracker gets the worst complaints. Seldom do I hear a complaint from a message recipient, more I hear from "I have a friend who got this message..." Traditional law enforcement is a quick call with a thank you I'm dropping this. While penet shut down after an investigation, he alluded to the fact that he was just tired of the hassles. Weasel did not shut down because of the law, but due to the desire to not expose his ISP to hassles. Traditional law enforcement takes so long to investigate, the keys could be canceled and replaced several times. In the US I don't think that law enforcement really cares enough to issue a warrant. Almost no warrants have ever been issued for remailers. Though I would not be surprised to find that intense extra-legal investigations were done on cases that involved situations such as Jim Bell's Assassination Politics. Cracker goes off line for a few hours every month. We basically never lose messages, but we can delay some. We have a downtime between 1.6% and 3% on the overall average. This is our remailer only. Compare this with the network - we only had 26 minutes of downtime in the last 365 days. Recently another remailer went down due to a hard drive problem - for a week or more. Software and hardware problems are significant issues for remailers. Another is incompatibilities in moving data from one mail host to another. Every once in awhile machines just become incompatible, often due to sendmail configurations designed to block spam or provide better security. As for hacking attacks, Cracker/EFGA has had some people censured by their ISP for stuff like spoofing us, mailbombing, and that good 'ole ping thing. To be honest, we've never been hurt by it anyway, but we do monitor for such things. A significant problem is in design. The remailer network is not designed to be robust or fault tolerant. There is no error notification to the user. If your message gets dropped along the way, there is no recovery system that gets it through another route. If you misspell your destination address, or other problem exists, you don't get notified of the event. Still for a group of volunteers running software that is patched almost every week, providing services for free - they don't do a bad job. -- Robert Costner Phone: (770) 512-8746 Electronic Frontiers Georgia mailto:pooh@efga.org http://www.efga.org/ run PGP 5.0 for my public key From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Ryan Lackey Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 18:00:36 +0800 To: Adam Back Subject: Re: remailer resistancs to attack In-Reply-To: <199801160125.BAA00650@server.eternity.org> Message-ID: <199801160956.EAA03776@the-great-machine.mit.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Adam Back: > Public access servers aren't a good idea. Really people should be > running local access servers only. The index is local, cache is > local, and USENET is a distributed broadcast medium. True. > However it seems to me that the weakest point is the remailer network. > It seems likely that it would be much easier for governments to shut > down the remailer network than it would be to shut down USENET. There > are only around 20 or so remailers, and they all have known IP > addresses, operators, localities, etc. I expect the spooks could shut > them down with less than 1 days notice if they wanted to. > > How do we improve the resistance of the remailer network to well > resourced attackers intent on dismantling it? By having anonymous remailers which are themselves anonymous -- running on discarded accounts, only known by a few other remailers, not the general public, perhaps by splitting up remailer addresses as a shared secret, so one remailer knows there is a "foo remailer" it can use, and has 1 of 3 where 2 pieces are necessary to have the address. and sends it to another remailer which may have the other part of the address. Perhaps probabilistic routing? Remailers which don't know all the components to an address, see how many they can assemble, and choose randomly? It does make enforcing "I want this remailed through multiple independent groups in case you're a fed" more difficult for the user -- perhaps they could send pieces of the message to be reassebled inside the remailer network? All of this is great, but it's a lot of work, and remailers are quickly consumed in this model. Thus what I think is the true solution: Providing a financial incentive for people to run remailers. This requires digital cash. I believe digital cash will soon exist, and thus this will soon be possible. (Also, a lot of these techniques would be valid in a higher performance non-email based system. Or even in a "type III" remailer network where secret sharing and probability and high traffic are used in place of message pools. Message pools are a direct tradeoff of performance for security -- an unacceptable tradeoff for current interactive systems, unless one could prefetch very effectively, or if so many people used a server that its message pool would not need to sit around very long -- this means the average user would be using a very small amount of the resources of a very large and highly loaded server -- this makes the large and highly loaded server an attractive target for attack. > > Adam - -- Ryan Lackey rdl@mit.edu http://mit.edu/rdl/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBNL8uuKwefxtEUY69AQGUuwgAwl0YJM/Qd7uPySeEWQq+Dne0HezmAKSl iNkJmgK352V1xz2wBqKtCnvt74WffvonA8ggtlq7Qw/KrYP+i0gkYmQ0wm7FDeWc rhpLtymFhr7BDyGV2gusiYHOW9yFCQ381YeXxSuc/l3SKi2IV9l3fXFcGlMCRr1E vHUYPimEGSiKJgr6P0wjS++6fz0KYlkKy4US4YUIFqh0jmoIf018UgZPVhwnmaj6 pyzzesRk0X183fmDinXwQCP/UE+DnwfYl5tl9Uv+cRXRbkRZe6zLik+gig1H9inz SIdkGS9PjV2EuA+kKysFEARWaLh8U6oppBwJrk/cUs6zdBAgnNo/sw== =/ssf -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Anonymous Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 12:32:54 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Add me to the mailing list Message-ID: <199801160415.FAA10709@basement.replay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >mws@conch.net Do it yourself like an intelligent individual. Cypherpunks write code. If you can't figure out how to use Majordomo this list probably isn't for you. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Lucky Green Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 12:49:35 +0800 To: mark@unicorn.com Subject: Re: Sealand (was Re: (eternity) autonomous agents) In-Reply-To: <884866825.4040.193.133.230.33@unicorn.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Thu, 15 Jan 1998 mark@unicorn.com wrote: > > I'd be interested to know where you got your information from, because > both Strauss ('How to start your own country') and the Micronations > Web page tell different stories; that Sealand was set up mostly for fun > by a couple of guys who made a lot of money from pirate radio and > it lasted at least fifteen years. You might want to search the NYT archives. Back the, Sealand was mentioned in the mainstream press. -- Lucky Green PGP v5 encrypted email preferred. "Tonga? Where the hell is Tonga? They have Cypherpunks there?" From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Anonymous Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 16:12:50 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com Subject: No Subject In-Reply-To: <199801160402.WAA08670@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199801160755.IAA07967@basement.replay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Jim Choate wrote: > If you're looking for a good beginners book for number theory that > is focused on using computer programs (BASIC) then check out: A free/share-ware version of BASIC was released a few years ago, called UBASIC, which understands big integers. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 22:53:14 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: remailer resistancs to attack (fwd) Message-ID: <199801161517.JAA10130@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Subject: Re: remailer resistancs to attack > Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 04:56:12 EST > From: Ryan Lackey > Adam Back: > > Public access servers aren't a good idea. Really people should be > > running local access servers only. The index is local, cache is > > local, and USENET is a distributed broadcast medium. > > True. Where do these private access servers get/send their traffic ultimately? > By having anonymous remailers which are themselves anonymous -- running > on discarded accounts, only known by a few other remailers, So we have lots of little groups of remailers that are hidden from public view by a 'ring' of public remailers (required if we want the general public to access them)? By what mechanism do I as a 'secret' remailer let others know about my existance and hence willingness to carry traffic? By what mechanism is my trustworthyness to be judged for this secret duty? > general public, perhaps by splitting up remailer addresses as a > shared secret, so one remailer knows there is a "foo remailer" it can > use, and has 1 of 3 where 2 pieces are necessary to have the address. and > sends it to another remailer which may have the other part of the address. Doesn't the remailer have to know who to ask to have a reasonable shot at getting the pieces? Isn't the list of sources going to have to be publicly accessible? Doesn't this also increase the bandwidth problem? Considering the scale required to impliment this, where is the monetary pay off for these secret remailers? > Providing a financial incentive for people to run remailers. This requires > digital cash. I believe digital cash will soon exist, and thus this will > soon be possible. At least one current potential for income is the indipendant key server. Charge some amount to keep the keys for a year and charge per access by remailers since they would be commercial enterprises. If the cost were pennies per access you could even access the casual individual user who wants to pull a key (though I personaly would like to see this cost be born by the key server operator). ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 23:02:12 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: remailer resistancs to attack (fwd) Message-ID: <199801161527.JAA10183@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 04:50:37 -0500 > From: "Robert A. Costner" > Subject: Re: remailer resistancs to attack > An obvious thing to try is to add some more remailers. 300 remailers would > not be immune to simultaneous shutdown by the authorities, but it would > make it more difficult. A dozen of so remailers makes shutdown fairly simple. Considering that the federal law enforcement agencies have had decades to deal with organized crime and such over a national and even international level, 100' level warrants is not even a resource strain if the pay off is large enough. Now if we had 10,000 or 100,000 the picture begins to change radicaly. > Threats to the remailer network come from a few basic places. > > 1. Traditional law enforcement > 2. Unauthorized law enforcement > 3. "friends" of message recipients or "friends" of the remailer > 4. unreliability of the machines that form the network > 5. Hacking attacks > 6. Design > 7. User incompetence 8. Operator incompetence 9. initial startup difficulties 10. lack of an effective financial model > Traditional law enforcement takes so long to investigate, the keys could be > canceled and replaced several times. This is another problem with the entire crypto process as now implimented. Users of keys, either for encryption or signing, tend to think of the keys as long term entities. Considering the increase in computing power, the coming ubiquity of law enforcement monitoring on the network, increased payoff for hackers as the traffic of personal info increases, and general human failure keys should in fact be changed often (say a couple of times a year, annualy at least) > A significant problem is in design. The remailer network is not designed > to be robust or fault tolerant. There is no error notification to the > user. If your message gets dropped along the way, there is no recovery > system that gets it through another route. If you misspell your > destination address, or other problem exists, you don't get notified of the > event. These are all criticisms of the TCP/IP and associated network mechanisms and not specific faults in the remailer model. It has to work with what it has. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Steve Schear Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 01:42:40 +0800 To: Tim May Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 6:37 PM -0800 1/15/98, Tim May wrote: >At 5:25 PM -0800 1/15/98, Adam Back wrote: >>Ryan Lackey writes: >>However it seems to me that the weakest point is the remailer network. >>It seems likely that it would be much easier for governments to shut >>down the remailer network than it would be to shut down USENET. There >>are only around 20 or so remailers, and they all have known IP >>addresses, operators, localities, etc. I expect the spooks could shut >>them down with less than 1 days notice if they wanted to. > >Well, I have long argued for the need for thousands of remailers, esp. the >"everyone a remailer" model. > >But, although I agree we need many more remailers, I think Adam overstates >the ease with which remailers can be shut down, at least in the U.S. Came across this paper and thought it might address remailer reliability, "How to Maintain Authenticated Communication in the Presence of Break-ins," http://theory.lcs.mit.edu/~tcryptol/OLD/old-02.html --Steve From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "James A. Donald" Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 02:22:07 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Legality of faxed signatures. Message-ID: <199801161807.KAA28571@proxy3.ba.best.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -- I believe that there is case law or legislation that a faxed signature is worthless if it is bit for bit identical with another signature, which of course it usually is these days. Can anyone with a spot of legal knowledge give me something impressive sounding to scare people who rely on those signatures. --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG m3FpGHzBYajbGdNyApmYfwBYZOzY44LHPv7+KZPs 4hFtbEu745IQyZxamC5p6PUwCCpOVAo/LKzZD8Uqu --------------------------------------------------------------------- We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this right, not from the arbitrary power of the state. http://www.jim.com/jamesd/ From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: bill.stewart@pobox.com Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 02:28:28 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Re: Talk of Banning Research into Human Cloning (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801131602.RAA06619@basement.replay.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980116101728.00841910@popd.ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 11:02 AM 1/13/98 -0800, Tim May wrote: >As I have made clear, I don't believe "banning research" which is neither >"commerce between the states" nor a direct harm to others (as the "robbery" >example Michael Froomkin used earlier as a parallel is), is supported by >the Constitution. There are different degrees of UnConstitutionalness. Some things are so blatantly off the edge that even if Congress passed them, they'd be laughed out of the first court that addressed them, like banning plant-growing or discrete mathematics or arresting everybody with Japanese ancestors. Others are much grayer areas, where court cases addressing them would take a long time and cost a lot of money, which can be prohibitively expensive for the early phases of research. >And if the cloning ban is a ban on research in certain areas, as many are >pushing for (but, again, the final laws have not been proposed, much less >passed, so we'll have to wait), then is this not prior restraint on >publishing? At least for the US, the important issue is that Congress hasn't passed any laws, nor do they need to - this is a speechmaking opp for Clinton, and maybe for a few right-wing or left-wing Congresscritters, so they can all sound concerned about this scary new technology, and so the public will remember that they feel our pain. A much more realistic, and Constitutional, possibility is that the Feds will ban use of Federal money for cloning research. As a civil libertarian, I think that's just fine, and they should do the same to other controversial research, like nuclear weapons and fetal parts, for which significant fractions of the public don't want to be forced to fund those activities they believe to be immoral or dangerous. Alternatively, [Note: End of serious section] they could use the confiscatory tax model pioneered with the machine gun and marihuana bans - the tax on cloning body parts is an arm and a leg, but if you clone an entire human it'll cost you your firstborn child... Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Toto Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 02:59:11 +0800 To: Privacy Admin Subject: Re: Forwarding remailer-ops posts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <34BFA4FD.67FC@sk.sympatico.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain XXXX wrote: > > > Those who have never operated a remailer fail to realize that > > the main goal of a remailer-operator should not be to provide > > a non-discriminatory forwarding service for anonymous users, but > > to ensure continued operation by not ruffling the feathers of > > upstream providers, and to provide a spam/UCE filtering service > > If the xxxx remailer was to allow non-PGP message and to stop > processing block requests, would you be willing to underwrite any legal > costs incurred? Nope. I have always found that those who attempt to cause me legal problems find themselves suddenly beset by problems of a much greater magnitude than those presented by my presence and actions, and quickly turn their attention to dealing with the greater problems in their life. > You yourself know how repressive the Canadian government is, look at the > RCMP takeover in Moncton, look at the RCMP attacking (law-abiding) > protestors at APEC, it is all around us. We are trying to preserve feedoms > in Canada, but I don't see any results from your cynical crap. All you > seem to do is whin, poke fun, and annoy. At the end of the day how much > have you done? I am growing tried of your holier than thou speech from the > throne. Actually, it is difficult to maintain a 'holier than thou' attitude when you're a cynical, whining, annoying asshole (but Lord knows, I try). As to how much I *do* by the end of the day, it is really nobody's business but my own, since the repressive forces you mention above make it advisable for many forms of active resistance to oppression to be done quietly, or from the shadows. Even when poking fun at fellow remailer-operators who sometimes appear to have forgotten that their original objective was to drain the swamp, I assume that the activities reflected in their public communications are not necessarily representative of their total contribution to providing tools and services supporting the basic human rights and freedoms which have become increasingly dangerous to exercise. The public remailers being maintained are an important training ground and showcase for the communications and privacy/anonymity tools being developed and used in their operation, but their very availability itself results in their exposure to the haphazard vagarities of social pressures and targeted oppression by those forces which feel threatened by tools which allow others to avoid being monitored and controlled. Current threads on the CypherPunks list regarding Eternity servers, mirrors, BlackNet, covert and/or private backroads on the 'Super- Highway', etc., are being disseminated to--and studied with great interest by--a wide variety of individuals who are fast becoming increasingly aware that the next few years will be turbulent times wherein those who fail to take steps to cover their own ass will find themselves being 'protected' by the government and corporate wolves offering us technologies based only on the "Trust Us" system. Revolutions rarely begin with grand pronouncements and massive public displays of resistance in the street. They usually begin in basements and secret rooms where increasing numbers of citizens begin preparing to protect and defend their own freedom and rights. When the shit hits the fan, many are surprised to find how many of their friends and neighbors have already been doing the same. The Revolution is *always* NOW! From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Steve Mynott Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 18:52:53 +0800 To: Tim May Subject: Re: Crypto Kong penetration. In-Reply-To: <199801151836.KAA13648@proxy3.ba.best.com> Message-ID: <19980116104604.39449@tightrope.demon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Thu, Jan 15, 1998 at 12:08:46PM -0800, Tim May wrote: > The fact is that most people don't see the need to either secure their > messages against eavesdroppers or to sign their messages. But PGP was > "cool" and rode the same wave that "Wired" rode. Few messages to the cypherpunks list are signed. -- Steve From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jonathan Wienke Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 07:17:04 +0800 To: Ryan Lackey Subject: Re: how to release code if the programmer is a target for coercion (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980116113405.006a44e8@popd.netcruiser> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 At 01:41 AM 1/15/98 -0500, Ryan Lackey wrote: >Another attack would be having 5 NSA agents sign a piece of code, but >you could prevent that by having the list made up of distinct well known >individuals who are unlikely to all be bought -- if the NSA wants to >give $100m each to the most frequent 100 posters on cypherpunks, I want >to get in line :) You can have cuts right behind me! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Business Security 5.5 iQA/AwUBNL+2K8JF0kXqpw3MEQK5vgCdH8N7F7fyTkrWn1E+mBhznrIDqZwAnjpG xE2ngJSG0BZJ4crdJb6EAYm8 =huFc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jonathan Wienke Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 07:16:44 +0800 To: Jim Choate Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980116122934.006a44e8@popd.netcruiser> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 At 02:35 AM 1/15/98 -0600, Jim Choate wrote: >I'm assuming this has something to do with the eternity server/black_net >discussion that has been going on. So I'll take a stab at it, not that it >may make any sense in the actual context ... > > - You generate the code and sign it > > - You deliver the signed code to a data haven server of some architecture > (note that you don't know where it is or who runs it, I'll assume you > use some particular usenet newsgroup as your drop point) > > - Somebody else comes along and sees a list of available items and selects > yours (again through a usenet based request mechanism). > > - They receive the code signed with 'your' key and decide they want to > verify the signing (through yet another usenet channel). > >The problem with this model is in the second step. What is to keep them >from removing your signatory, moding the code, and then resigning it. If the >recipient desides they want to check the sign they have two choices: > > - select an anonymous key that has been previously stored on some sort of > key server. > > (if they are running a eternity server blind they could be running a > key server blind as well, it follows that at least some of the > users of your software wanting to verify the signing will go to this > server and hence have corrupted code, if we're using the usenet model > this is even more likely since they could be running a feed point for > other usenet feeds downstream and hence capture many if not all requests > for the product, especialy if they were the only server to actualy > carry a copy.) > > - contact you the author directly (I'm assuming of course you were silly > enough to put a publicly available key directly traceable to yourself > on it in the first place) in which case they simply intercede from a > upstream tap and verify their request in your behalf. > >In either case there is no guarantee that what comes off the server is >what you the source put on there. Hence the long term security of the key >is compromised. In particular, in the second case, since they already know >who provided the illicit data to the server there motive is clearly to >track the users. This breaks the anonymity of the data haven. > >Implicit in a workable data haven model is the goal of both source and sink >anonymity. This means that any signed data on the server must provide a >mechanism for the user to verify the sign by access to a suitable key to >generate the appropriate hash and compare it to the one that the server >delivered. If they match you should have the correct unadulterated document. Jim, there are > 2 parties in the matter being discussed: the author of the item (who wishes to remain anonymous), the person who wishes to use the item (who probably wishes to remain anonymous), and N reviewers/authenticators of the item, who may or may not wish to be anonymous. In the case of the reviewers, signature verification may be possible outside of the BlackNet/Eternity structure. For example, I could look at the source for Joes Awesome CryptoKillerApp, or the latest manual from GunzenBomz Pyro-Technologies, and sign the files indicating that I cannot find any security flaws or that I tried some of the "recipes" and blew up a local pedophile's house. My key is publicly available at the MIT keyserver; it has been since PGP 5.0 came out. I have posted hundreds of times to Cypherpunks; most of these posts have been signed with my key and include the fingerprint of my key. It would be fairly difficult for any attacker to forge a signature with a false key; it would involve either rubber-hosing my passphrase, changing history on all the Cypherpunks archives (including any on the item end-user's machine and on the machines of all the Cypherpunks they correspond with), or re-creating my private key from my public one. A similar situation exists for other entities that customarily sign their posts, such as Bill Geiger, Monty Cantsin (assuming he ever got around to posting his public key), Nerthus, etc. "Certified by #314159" does not in itself inspire confidence, but if hundreds of signed writings by #314159 exist, such that #314159 has high reputation capital, it begins to do so, assuming that #314159's passphrase hasn't been rubber-hosed or otherwise compromised. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Business Security 5.5 iQA/AwUBNL/DK8JF0kXqpw3MEQL3agCdGY2Zj4lCoJjW+PRSyoc0Vyvd48cAoMwl 8ePeJ0Dbka+Jel+n1zSf+Zl/ =mG+m -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Jonathan Wienke PGP Key Fingerprints: 7484 2FB7 7588 ACD1 3A8F 778A 7407 2928 3312 6597 8258 9A9E D9FA 4878 C245 D245 EAA7 0DCC "If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains set lightly upon you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." -- Samuel Adams "Stupidity is the one arena of of human achievement where most people fulfill their potential." -- Jonathan Wienke Never sign a contract that contains the phrase "first-born child." When the government fears the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny. Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't. RSA export-o-matic: print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 02:04:58 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Wassenaar Rule Update Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980116175815.006cbac0@pop.pipeline.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Update of yesterday's post: The Bureau of Export Administration published 15 January 1998 in the Federal Register, "Implementation of the Wassenaar Arrangement List of Dual-Use Items: Revisions to the Commerce Control List and Reporting Under the Wassenaar Arrangement; Rule." The rule in TXT format is available in three parts as published: http://jya.com/bxa-wa-rule.txt (354K) http://jya.com/bxa-wa-rule2.txt (373K) http://jya.com/bxa-wa-rule3.txt (32K) Or all three parts (742K) in a compressed self-extracting Zip file: http://jya.com/bxa-wa-rule.exe (194K) Excerpt for Category 5 -- Telecommunications and "Information Security": http://jya.com/bxa-wa-cat5.htm (39K) From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "James Little" Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 02:36:58 +0800 To: Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199801161822.KAA26360@denmark.it.earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Hi. I just recently subscribed to your mailing list. I've read ALL of your stuff. I just don't understand what it is u guys are really about. Please help. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 03:47:43 +0800 To: "'James Little'" Subject: RE: In-Reply-To: <199801161822.KAA26360@denmark.it.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <199801161934.NAA16266@pc1824.ibpinc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain If we knew the list would not be any fun! -----Original Message----- From: owner-cypherpunks@cyberpass.net [mailto:owner-cypherpunks@cyberpass.net]On Behalf Of James Little Sent: Friday, January 16, 1998 12:24 PM To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Hi. I just recently subscribed to your mailing list. I've read ALL of your stuff. I just don't understand what it is u guys are really about. Please help. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Paul H. Merrill" Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 02:46:26 +0800 To: Blanc Subject: Re: Microsoft Metaphors In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980115230112.0087a340@cnw.com> Message-ID: <34BFD47A.1DAF@acm.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Blanc wrote: > > The new upcoming version of Windows gives the user the choice of using > Internet Explorer as the main interface for access to the desktop icons, > the computer files, internet services like AOL, or web pages. It is still > the user's choice to use Win95 as they are accustomed to - they must > manually select this option in order to use it - but it is a new way of > using Internet Explorer, for more than just viewing web pages. > > You could say it is becoming the window from which to view the rest of the > rooms in the house, including what's beyond, outside of it. > .. > Blanc It is currently available for such use. No just upcoming. PHM From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "James A. Donald" Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 06:25:42 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Re: Legality of faxed signatures. Message-ID: <199801162211.OAA14165@proxy3.ba.best.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -- Thanks, though this sounds like a silly judgment. It looks to me as if the great majority of judges and lawyers, and hence presumably the great majority of CEOs, are blissfully unaware that one can do anything with a fax other than scan it in from paper and ink at one end, while it is printed out on paper and ink at the other end. In actual fact a very large proportion of faxes never see paper and ink at either end, creating endless opportunities for manipulation. This is a big problem for me, because I want to scare businessmen into using digital signatures. --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG E05oBvvh8W9NDUWZgPx6YirXgrcL6+CEkbWuhVNo 4MQrt6D7Hjqw8OzIX9J2wbPBc7D77B+PochPDi4KZ At 02:35 PM 1/16/98 -0500, Robert A. Costner wrote: >At 10:07 AM 1/16/98 -0800, James A. Donald wrote: >>I believe that there is case law or legislation that a faxed >>signature is worthless if it is bit for bit identical with >>another signature, which of course it usually is these days. >> >>Can anyone with a spot of legal knowledge give me something >>impressive sounding to scare people who rely on those >>signatures. > >In Georgia, the state appeals court declared that faxes are "beeps and >chirps" and therefore not writings. As a fax is not a writing, it cannot >have a signature. Therefore the signature cannot be valid. This was in a >case that involved a required notice to arrive by a certain time. > >Traditionally, on a writing anything is a signature including an 'X', spit, >and the words "Mickey Mouse". > > > -- Robert Costner Phone: (770) 512-8746 > Electronic Frontiers Georgia mailto:pooh@efga.org > http://www.efga.org/ run PGP 5.0 for my public key > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this right, not from the arbitrary power of the state. http://www.jim.com/jamesd/ From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Anonymous Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 03:24:11 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: No Subject Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "wabe" Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 03:51:26 +0800 To: Subject: Re: I'm going to count to ten... etc Message-ID: <004b01bd22ce$7c76a6c0$ab8588d1@justice> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -- I have to say, I really enjoy your posts TruthMonger - as deranged as they are. So out of all of us, who's going to the steg conference this april? Also, is there a java version of crypto kong so I can use it in linux? And the solution to the speeding-ticket-giving camera is, of course, camo paint jobs. But you all knew that, right? --digsig EojdyErVslc/s6aQeIHwnOlMw3lUKJhdZc/ZeCNfe7H QbR0ngV/+ZI9uuiEe6o4CkfBhQowsHozF7TsZU5f 40HJxqCEceUgzeJFjTbRWSH9LJxdzYMLQbtwctBfM From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "wabe" Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 03:55:55 +0800 To: Subject: Re: e-mail muddling. Message-ID: <008801bd22cf$131ec440$ab8588d1@justice> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -- Also wouldn't it be easier to de-muddle an e-mail message than a brute force attack? I mean, you KNOW what muddled it. And you know the general way it got muddled. It's not pgp, it's just some line breaks a bit too early for their time... -wabe --digsig EojdyErVslc/s6aQeIHwnOlMw3lUKJhdZc/ZeCNfe7H zvMubhARmsdOWVOYi7Su/Y9qnSIOIjc9Wuqb6G5G 40asyOJEF0Kflm3y9623Ab0qCaryGJ1TtAaE4JU1y From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Robert A. Costner" Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 04:04:04 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com Subject: Re: Legality of faxed signatures. Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980116145928.0339e060@mail.atl.bellsouth.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 10:07 AM 1/16/98 -0800, James A. Donald wrote: >I believe that there is case law or legislation that a faxed >signature is worthless if it is bit for bit identical with >another signature, which of course it usually is these days. > >Can anyone with a spot of legal knowledge give me something >impressive sounding to scare people who rely on those >signatures. In Georgia, the state appeals court declared that faxes are "beeps and chirps" and therefore not writings. As a fax is not a writing, it cannot have a signature. Therefore the signature cannot be valid. This was in a case that involved a required notice to arrive by a certain time. Traditionally, on a writing anything is a signature including an 'X', spit, and the words "Mickey Mouse". -- Robert Costner Phone: (770) 512-8746 Electronic Frontiers Georgia mailto:pooh@efga.org http://www.efga.org/ run PGP 5.0 for my public key From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jonathan Wienke Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 07:16:38 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Re: Talk of Banning Research into Human Cloning (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980116150412.006a44e8@popd.netcruiser> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 At 10:17 AM 1/16/98 -0800, bill.stewart@pobox.com wrote: >At 11:02 AM 1/13/98 -0800, Tim May wrote: >>As I have made clear, I don't believe "banning research" which is neither >>"commerce between the states" nor a direct harm to others (as the "robbery" >>example Michael Froomkin used earlier as a parallel is), is supported by >>the Constitution. > >There are different degrees of UnConstitutionalness. Some things are so >blatantly off the edge that even if Congress passed them, they'd be laughed >out of the first court that addressed them, like banning plant-growing >or discrete mathematics or arresting everybody with Japanese ancestors. >Others are much grayer areas, where court cases addressing them >would take a long time and cost a lot of money, which can be prohibitively >expensive for the early phases of research. Hate to bust your bubble, but they did the Japanese thing during WWII...the survivors and next of kin finally got a token payment last year. >Alternatively, [Note: End of serious section] they could use the >confiscatory tax model pioneered with the machine gun and marihuana bans - >the tax on cloning body parts is an arm and a leg, but if you >clone an entire human it'll cost you your firstborn child... They have machine gun bars!!! I think I'll take up drinking! :) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Business Security 5.5 iQA/AwUBNL/na8JF0kXqpw3MEQIgVwCdGSVh/DcIQEDLuq13PBa++52IpfAAmwT1 vL1W6JlBhRK07B0Xj/xKRPkz =tbH/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Jonathan Wienke PGP Key Fingerprints: 7484 2FB7 7588 ACD1 3A8F 778A 7407 2928 3312 6597 8258 9A9E D9FA 4878 C245 D245 EAA7 0DCC RSA export-o-matic: print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 04:20:09 +0800 To: Lucky Green Subject: Re: Wassenaar Rule Update Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980116201222.006ea474@pop.pipeline.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Good point about the hazard of EXE files. Thanks. A zip file is available: http://jya.com/bxa-wa-rule.zip (168K) From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Adam Back Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 06:32:43 +0800 To: steve@tightrope.demon.co.uk Subject: non-transferable signatures (Re: Crypto Kong penetration.) In-Reply-To: <19980116104604.39449@tightrope.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: <199801161530.PAA00710@server.eternity.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain James Donald : > On Thu, Jan 15, 1998 at 12:08:46PM -0800, Tim May wrote: > > The fact is that most people don't see the need to either secure their > > messages against eavesdroppers or to sign their messages. But PGP was > > "cool" and rode the same wave that "Wired" rode. > > Few messages to the cypherpunks list are signed. It might in fact be a dumb move to sign messages to the cypherpunks list -- proving that you wrote whatever, when for example the USG adds cypherpunks to it's growing list of terrorist organisations. Similarly it might be dumb to sign private messages to other subscribers -- some of them may turn out to be narcs, or may be coereced into narcing etc. You can use non-transferable signatures for private email, but it's probably better not to sign publically posting messages, unless you have a persistent anonymous nym unlinkable with your meat space persona. Adam -- Now officially an EAR violation... Have *you* exported RSA today? --> http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/ print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 07:36:58 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: PEOPLEFINDERS Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >From: search@peoplefinders.net >Sender: search@peoplefinders.net >To: >Reply-To: search@peoplefinders.net >Subject: PEOPLEFINDERS >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 05:35:48 -0500 > >Imagine finding old friends, classmates, long lost relatives, old shipmates, ex-husbands, ex-wives, old girlfriends, or old boyfriends... > >WE FIND PEOPLE > >No matter why you are looking we can help. We utilize only ethical and legal means. Nothing is obtained though any illegal means whatsoever. > >The explosion in on-line information has allowed us to build an extremely powerful database searching program specifically designed to locate people... > >We search over 90 data bases instantly -- electronically searching virtually every clue that a trained gumshoe might think of -- and then some. > >PUBLIC RECORDS ARE AVAILABLE > >No doubt you have read that information about you and almost everyone else is available on-line. Its TRUE! Every time you renew your drivers license, apply for credit, order goods my mail or subscribe to a periodical, the information about who you are and where you can be found is created. The information is not always free -- but it is certainly out there -- readily available to anyone who knows how and where to look. > >If fact there is entirely too much information available! Huge amounts of data make searching for your piece of the puzzle exceedingly difficult. > >WE HAVE AUTOMATED THE PROCESS > >Our computers search in a systematic automated way for the information you need. Without an organized and automated search program you would literally drown in the data. Which state's motor vehicle records would you check first? What if it cost some money? > >We know where to look -- we have been locating people for years working with insurance companies, collection agencies and attorneys. If a public record is available we will know about it, and we will have the access necessary to get results. > >LOW COST! > >Our highly organized and automated structure allows us to work for our clients on a person by person basis for a very low cost -- $19.00 per search payable by credit card or check. Not bad considering that access to some of the 34 states who offer DMV information on-line can cost upwards of $200 per year. And private detectives can charge $200 per hour!!! > >WHAT YOU GET > >The basic search results will give you the name and address of the person you are searching for. The cost for this basic service is $19.00. Additional charges are: > > Telephone number: $10.00 > Social Security number: $10.00 > Spouse name: $10.00 > Date of Birth: $10.00 > >You will only be charged for the information you request and the information we are able to provide. > >HOW IT WORKS > >If we find the person you are looking for, and only if we find them, we will charge your credit card or deposit your check. If we don't find them, we won't charge you or we will return your check. You don't need to sign a long-term contract, have a modem hook up, Internet access or anything else. Simply print the Search Form, complete it and fax it to us at (212) 213-3320. We will fulfill your request within twenty four hours. If E-mail is more convenient, just complete the form below and reply to search@peoplefinders.net, or if you prefer, you can mail your request to: PeopleFinders, Inc. 11 East 36th Street, 10th Floor, New York, NY 10016. > >REMEMBER - IT'S GUARANTEED > >If you are not satisfied within 30 days from the time you receive your results -- we will refund your money!!! > >ORDER FORM > >PLEASE ATTEMPT TO LOCATE THE PERSON LISTED BELOW. (PLEASE PRINT CLEARLY) > >1. SUBJECT COMPLETE NAME: _____________________________________ > (middle initial helps) >2. LAST KNOWN ADDRESS: _____________________________________ > >3. CITY, STATE AND ZIP: _____________________________________ > >4. LAST KNOWN TELEPHONE: _____________________________________ > (include area code) >5. SUBJECT DATE OF BIRTH: _____________________________________ > (approximate is OK) >6. SUBJECT SOCIAL SECURITY NO.: _____________________________________ > >7. MISCELLANEOUS INFORMATION: _____________________________________ > (any other info you have) > >Items (1) (2) and (3) above - REQUIRED. >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > UPON COMPLETION OF THE ABOVE REQUESTED SEARCH, PLEASE: > >[ ] MAIL or [ ] FAX or [ ] E-mail the results of the search to: > >YOUR NAME (please print) _____________________________________ >YOUR ADDRESS (if mailing) _____________________________________ >CITY, STATE and ZIP (if mailing) _____________________________________ >YOUR FAX NUMBER (if faxing) _____________________________________ >YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS _____________________________________ > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > CHECK THE APPROPRIATE BOXES FOR THE SERVICES YOU REQUIRE. > >[ ] $19.00 per request.(The basic search results will give you the name and address of the person you are searching for.) > >[ ] Additional $10.00 for person's telephone number (if available). > >[ ] Additional $10.00 for person's social security number (if available). > >[ ] Additional $10.00 for person's spouse name (if available). > >[ ] Additional $10.00 for person's date of birth (if available). > >Total Cost of search (if successful) $ ______________________ > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > PLEASE ACCEPT THE FOLLOWING PAYMENT: > >[ ] My check is enclosed. >[ ] Charge my [ ] Amex [ ] MC [ ] VISA > >ACCOUNT NUMBER: ______________________ EXPIRATION: __________________ > >I understand that my check will not be deposited or my credit card charged unless PeopleFinders locates the subject person I am seeking. PeopleFinders, Inc. will quarry their data bases and attempt to locate the person. If successful, PeopleFinders will deposit my check or charge my credit card. I agree that I have thirty (30) days to request a full refund if I am not satisfied with the results. I hereby authorize PeopleFinders to charge my credit card. > >AUTHORIZED SIGNATURE: _________________________________________ > >PRINT this page and mail or fax the order form to: > >PeopleFinders, Inc. >11 East 36th Street, 10th Floor >New York, NY 10016 >FAX (212) 213-3320 > >Additional information available at (212) 213-3000 Ext. 1900 or via E-mail - search@peoplefinders.net. Thank you. > >//////////////////////////////// > >If you wish your name removed from all future mailings - simply reply to this message with "REMOVE" in the subject line. Thank you. > >//////////////////////////////// > From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: bill.stewart@pobox.com Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 07:41:20 +0800 To: Declan McCullagh Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980116153614.00838100@popd.ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 09:51 AM 1/15/98 -0800, Tim May wrote: >Skip the misleading metaphors and simply describe what the Web is (duh!), >what a browser is, and what Microsoft is bundling with their OS. >Anybody who by now doesn't know what these three items are is too >stupid to grasp metaphor, anyway. > >(Unless it's this: "Like, think of a beer company. The company wants to >include a can opener with the beer. Like, they even want to include an >automatic opening thing they call a "pop-top." Netscape, a maker of can >openers, wants the Justice Department to force Microsoft to remove this >pop-top feature so that more people will have to buy their can opener.") Actually, to continue twisttied analogies, MS is a maker of those plastic 6-pack-holder straps, and has recently discovered that beer is an important market (!) and added canned beer to their list of things they can hold (along with MS NewCoke, MS OEM-Cola.RC, MS Canned OJ, MS Canned News, and MSBeans.) Netscape, a maker of bottled beer (available singly, in cases, or in cardboard sixpack holders), wants the Feds to stop Microsoft from selling their plastic straps integrated with beer. All of us old geezers who remember drinking Home Brewed Real Beer and the younger hackers who were exposed to beer from kegs in college (even if they buy canned Rolling Rock at home because it's cheap) have been telling people for years that canning beer is a Bad Thing and that Microsoft wouldn't know beer if it bit them on the wallet. Bottles aren't a bad way to store beer, if you must sell it packaged, though Netscape's got a lot of gall complaining that MS makes dealers of MSBeerCans and MSBeerCanRings sell MSBeer along with them, seeing as how Netscape got their start giving away free beer in paper cups using the Computer Science Department Recreation Fund, and got the idea for Beer from those Europeans anyway, even if they did add the innovation of selling it in cheap one-drink-sized containers.... [OK, it wasn't very good, but at least it was better than doing yet another bunch of Java metaphors. Hmmm - there _are_ several brands of canned coffee, most of which taste like Microsoft made them.... :-] Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 05:22:16 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Nanotechnology (fwd) Message-ID: <199801162148.PAA11597@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 22:10:07 +0100 (MET) > Subject: Nanotechnology > From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) > I think people here seriously underestimate how long nanotech will take. Speak for your self...;) ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: bill.stewart@pobox.com Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 08:02:07 +0800 To: cryptography@c2.net Subject: UPDATE!! BAY AREA CYPHERPUNKS MEETING, SATURDAY 1/17, OAKLAND Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980116154921.008b6e30@popd.ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sameer asks that, due to building access limitations, everybody please show up by 2pm to be sure the guards will let you in, and "humor building management and sign in as requested by the guard". And there's a parking lot on Franklin between 12th and 13th, which is a block or two east/south of Broadway. > The January Bay Area Cypherpunks Meeting will be Saturday afternoon > at C2 Software's office in Oakland. > > Agenda: Export Laws - Lee Tien and Greg Broiles > Work in Progress > Lots of discussion from RSA Conference. > > Time: 12-6pm followed by dinner - program starts at 1:00 > Location: C2Net Software, Inc. 1440 Broadway Suite 700, Oakland, CA > Phone: (510) 986-8770 Fax: (510) 986-8777 > Public Transportation - about two blocks from the 12th St BART station. > This is the best way to get there from San Francisco, > and parking for BART trains is easy. :-) > Driving - From South - take 880N to Broadway exit, about .9 mile, park > From San Francisco - Take the Bay Bridge to Grand Ave, > turn right on Telegraph and continue on Broadway. If you find yourself on 980, 11th or 12th goes to Broadway. > > Map URL: http://www.mapblast.com/yt.hm?FAM=mapblast&CMD=GEO&SEC=find&IC=0%3A0%3A5&IC%3A=C2+Suite+700&AD2=1440+Broadway&AD3=Oakland%2C+CA Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 06:45:59 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Eternity - an alternative approach (fwd) Message-ID: <199801162312.RAA12160@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Date: 16 Jan 1998 22:02:55 -0000 > From: Kay Ping > Subject: Eternity - an alternative approach > In one of the messages on the eternity thread someone suggested using > radio signals. This is an interesting approach which certainly deserves > further attention but digital radio requires special hardware which I prefer > to avoid. There is at least one way to do it with standard equipment, course it must be 1-way only. The source takes the phone line from their standard 4800 modem and put it in the audio in (both should be 600 ohm, be shure to use a matching transformer for isolation). At the other end you do the same sort of thing but use the modem to decode the data. You can not have full-duplex with this method, half-duplex only. > Radio is also quite good at hiding the location of the transmitter - you > tune your radio and the signals are just there, coming down your antenna. > It takes special equipment to locate where they originated. Yeah, another radio, a map, a ruler & pen, a omni-directional antenna, and a car. Check out the ARRL for various antenna designs. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 06:50:07 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: non-transferable signatures (Re: Crypto Kong penetration.) (fwd) Message-ID: <199801162319.RAA12288@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 15:30:05 GMT > From: Adam Back > Subject: non-transferable signatures (Re: Crypto Kong penetration.) > It might in fact be a dumb move to sign messages to the cypherpunks > list -- proving that you wrote whatever, when for example the USG adds > cypherpunks to it's growing list of terrorist organisations. We're an 'organization'? Where is my monthly newsletter?....;) We should also pick our treasurer with some care. It is the prime target for law enforcement since it provides them access to the money records. In general I have to agree with Adam though, in the real world with ubiquitous and surreptitious monitoring signing documents is actualy a liability in many if not most cases. About the only exception is dealing with a contractual relationship. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 06:53:26 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: forward secrecy for mixmaster & email (Re: remailer resistancs to attack) (fwd) Message-ID: <199801162321.RAA12340@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 21:54:34 GMT > From: Adam Back > Subject: forward secrecy for mixmaster & email (Re: remailer resistancs to attack) > > Make that instant key changes for mixmaster remailers by using forward > secrecy and direct IP delivery to enable the interactive > communications pattern required for immediate forward secrecy. Ulf > Moeller (current mixmaster maintainer) has this on his to do list I > think. I agree. It is probably one of the most misunderstood and must under-addressed problem with crypto in my opinion. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 07:07:50 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: Sun to fight MS w/ new workstations [CNN] (fwd) Message-ID: <199801162336.RAA12510@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 00:00:09 +0100 (MET) > Subject: Re: Sun to fight MS w/ new workstations [CNN] > From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) > Hmm... Considering that you can buy a PC w/ Linux and have a Unix > workstation for less than the cost of a new computer with NT, I wonder > who Sun is really targetting here. Corporations and businesses which feel more secure with a commercial enterprise backing the system. > Most of the people buying NT are the same people who bought their last > OS from Microsoft, and don't feel like trying anything new. There are *many* businesses which have been unix shops exclusively in the past who are now implimenting NT based servers for a variety of reasons. In some cases the intent is to drop the Unix boxes completely over the span of say 5-10 years as alternate applications become available. It's a bigger market than the home, soho, or individual corporate user at stake. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 07:21:50 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: how to release code if the programmer is a target for (fwd) Message-ID: <199801162348.RAA12709@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 12:29:34 -0800 > From: Jonathan Wienke > Subject: Re: how to release code if the programmer is a target for > coercion (fwd) [my entire previous post deleted...geesh] > Jim, there are > 2 parties in the matter being discussed: EXACTLY. That is why there is a potential for a MITM (requires at least 3 parties) attack. > My key is publicly available at the MIT keyserver; it has been since PGP > 5.0 came out. So what? If Alice is being monitored for whatever reason and she requests your key Mallet simply intercedes and inserts their own key. How is Alice going to catch a clue? > key. It would be fairly difficult for any attacker to forge a signature > with a false key; It isn't the source but the recipient that is under attack. [rest deleted] ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Robert A. Costner" Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 07:09:47 +0800 To: "James A. Donald" Subject: Re: Legality of faxed signatures. In-Reply-To: <199801162156.NAA01504@proxy3.ba.best.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980116175450.0312afd4@mail.atl.bellsouth.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 01:56 PM 1/16/98 -0800, James A. Donald wrote: >This is a big problem for me, because I want to scare >businessmen into using digital signatures. Part of the process for having a Digital Signature law is to establish the definition of a writing. Since faxes are not writings, but email is, you should be able to scare them into digital signatures pretty easily. -- Robert Costner Phone: (770) 512-8746 Electronic Frontiers Georgia mailto:pooh@efga.org http://www.efga.org/ run PGP 5.0 for my public key From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 07:36:31 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: reasons for local eternity proxies (Re: remailer resistancs to attack) (fwd) Message-ID: <199801170004.SAA12914@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 21:42:52 GMT > From: Adam Back > Subject: reasons for local eternity proxies (Re: remailer resistancs to attack) > > (Reason for local news feed being preferabl is that it protects the > NNTP traffic which would otherwise allow eavesdroppers to observer > which articles you were reading. SSL is only a partial solution > because you are then trusting the SSL NNTP server operator.) >From a criminal perspective is it really important to know what you were reading but rather what you were generating? Using Van Eck it would be much easier and cheaper to determine what you were reading than spend the money, physical resources, and people time to figure it using traffic analysis. It's more incriminating to prove you sent a request for illicit data than you downloaded it. Sending it out shows premeditated intent. Simply downloading it shows only curiosity with no other evidence. Simple traffic analysis will determine your sourcing data even if it is fully encrypted. > Local servers don't generate any traffic, "local server" is really a > misnomer, it is a local proxy for reading news... it presents a view > of USENET articles which makes them appear as web pages. It keeps > copies of those web pages more up to date versions are read in news, > this allows fast access to the web space. I point my local news readers at my ISP's news server so I don't flood my link with several gig's of traffic a day. This is the primary objection to hosting a 'real' local news server - the bandwidth and hardware resource issues place it outside of most peoples financial ability. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: John Blair Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 08:14:12 +0800 To: "James A. Donald" Subject: Re: Legality of faxed signatures. In-Reply-To: <199801162211.OAA14165@proxy3.ba.best.com> Message-ID: <199801170006.SAA06076@frodo.tucc.uab.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Any lawyers on this list may want to correct me, but as I understand it contract law is *extremely* flexible concerning what a "signature" is. It is perfectly legal to negotiate a contract via conventional, plaintext e-mail. If you wrote a contract for me to sign and I wrote back "I accept this contract" then legally a contract would exist. This is the same as if you phoned me, described a problem, and agreed to pay me to solve the problem. Legally a contract would exist (though it would be foolish not to put the contract in writing in most situations). The law is concerned more with the ritual of forming the contract (preferably by writing it on some medium that can be examined at a later date) followed by some sort of record that both parties agree on the contract they formed. In fact, businesses work like this all the time. The reason it works is that the best way to enforce a contract is to *trust* the person you're forming a contract with. Obviously, just negotiating a contract via e-mail is dangerous. All of us know there are ways to forge or repudiate parts or all of this transaction. A paper signature, just like a digital signature, is an excellent tool for non-repudiation (You say: I didn't sign that! Your opponent says: we know you signed this b/c this is your handwriting/public key/etc). Whether or not it seems to be a good idea from the viewpoint of computer science is irrelevant-- the law focuses on the *ritual,* not the specific form of the document. Note-- I'm deriving this statement from a study that I did on digital signatures in contract law that was part of my undergraduate thesis. I am not a legal expert. If I am totally off-base please explain to me where I am wrong so I may revise my notions concerning contract law. ...................................................................... . . .....John.D.Blair... mailto:jdblair@uab.edu phoneto:205.975.7123 . . http://frodo.tucc.uab.edu faxto:205.975.7129 . ..sys|net.admin.... . . the university computer center ..... ..... g.e.e.k.n.i.k...the.university.of.alabama.at.birmingham.... -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBNL/2AQJjTpK3AXhBAQHJMgQAoPZfME2lyEm29ipy8CMGmt32RXhERF0D 1WyEMP+dxkcDb8LkgYwPYZZp8pAEac2Qd8puET3S6tJajj452TEPelfyKeKfMFva yFyWowFBON+R2AJT1HMXL2ArevRqTpbKD3mdjZ/qtWBbEf8Dh+gNoU0E+CoTbiEq 0lgp0nIrW9o= =I5Jy -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 07:40:48 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: Where for lunch on Tue.? (fwd) Message-ID: <199801170006.SAA12970@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 17:25:13 -0600 > From: Kenneth Zuber > > I heard you weren't good either..... > I guess you get what you pay for > > Sean Starke wrote: > > > > > Tivoleers, be advised...he's looking to pick at least one of you up... > > I may be cheap, but I'm not free... That could explain why every girl he gets dumps him in less than a month... He's cheap which means he shows up with wilted flowers and day-old bread. Also explains why he can't keep people out of his crease, he uses them old dull skates. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 07:39:35 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: Where for lunch on Tue.? (fwd) Message-ID: <199801170007.SAA13045@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > That could explain why every girl he gets dumps him in less than a month... > > He's cheap which means he shows up with wilted flowers and day-old bread. > Also explains why he can't keep people out of his crease, he uses them old > dull skates. Sorry, that wasn't supposed to go out to you folks....I think I'm about to get my butt kicked...;( ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: owl@owlseye.com Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 07:31:32 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com Subject: OK to send e-mail? Message-ID: <199801162310.SAA11440@ns.owlseye.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain OK to send an e-mail to cypherpunks@ssz.com? From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 01:38:36 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Kaczynski attempts suicide Message-ID: <199801161731.SAA19055@basement.replay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > SACRAMENTO, California (AP) -- The judge in Theodore Kaczynski's > trial declared him "lucid, calm" and free from signs of mental > illness just hours before the Unabomb suspect tried to kill himself > in his cell. I don't get it. The guy is facing the death penalty, and now they're trying to keep him alive. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 02:54:15 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: steganography and delayed release of keys (Re: Eternity Services) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801161848.TAA29226@basement.replay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Adam Back wrote: > Unfortunately good quality textual steganography encodings are I think a > hard problem for reasonable data rates. One advantage in our favour is the > massively noisy and incoherent garbage which forms the majority of USENET > traffic. Plausibly mimicing an alt.2600 or warez d00d message, or a > `cascade' seems like an easier target. yA, d00d, i g0tz yEr stEg0 dAtA eNcOded r1gh+ h3re... ;-) From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: John Young Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 10:12:19 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: New Software Controls Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980117020259.00733f54@pop.pipeline.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain TH points out that there's a broad new provision in the BXA Wassenaar rule for controlling telecommunications software under Category 5, Part I - Telecommunications, quote: You might want to highlight the following section ... not sure of the entire context ... but this isn't something that I'd seen before. It looks like control of any software that can transmit data. c.3. ``Software'' which provides the capability of recovering ``source code'' of telecommunications ``software'' controlled by 5A001, 5B001, or 5C001; For the citation see: http://jya.com/bxa-wa/cat51.htm#5D001c3 --------- We've broken the rule into several components for easier access to the Commerce Control List revisions. See: http://jya.com/bxa-wa-rule.htm From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Brian B. Riley" Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 10:46:19 +0800 To: "Meander-Talk List" Subject: Fwd: Skiing Message-ID: <199801170242.VAA10711@mx02.together.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain ---------------- Begin Forwarded Message ---------------- Date: 01/16 8:27 AM Received: 01/16 5:18 PM From: Patrick McGarvey, mcgoo@worldnet.att.net To: Brian Riley, brianbr@together.net Subject: For the skier in us... > > What's the difference between John Denver and Michael Kennedy? > John Denver made it alive out of Aspen. > Has Elton John re-written any of his songs for Michael Kennedy? > Not yet, but he's done one about the tree: "I'm Still Standing" > How can you be sure that Michael was really a Kennedy? > Check the family tree. > How will the priest begin Michael Kennedy's eulogy? > "We are gathered here together on this slalom occasion...." > A simple accident? Some witnesses insist there was a second tree at > the snow-covered knoll... > What do Michael and JFK Jr's magazine "George" have in common? > * Wood pulp. > > New bumper sticker...."Plant A Tree....Kill A Kennedy...." > What's an event you don't want to be at? > * A Michael Kennedy New Year's Bash > What will it take to reunite the four Kennedy brothers? > A1: One more bullet. > A2: A season lift pass. ----------------- End Forwarded Message ----------------- Brian B. Riley --> http://members.macconnect.com/~brianbr For PGP Keys "The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher regard those who think alike than those who think differently." -- Nietzche From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Adam Back Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 06:33:52 +0800 To: ravage@ssz.com Subject: reasons for local eternity proxies (Re: remailer resistancs to attack) In-Reply-To: <199801161517.JAA10130@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199801162142.VAA00581@server.eternity.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Jim Choate writes: > > Adam Back: > > > Public access servers aren't a good idea. Really people should be > > > running local access servers only. The index is local, cache is > > > local, and USENET is a distributed broadcast medium. > > > > True. > > Where do these private access servers get/send their traffic ultimately? Local eternity servers get their data from a news feed. Preferably a local news feed, or a satellite based feed, or second choice SSL encrypted NNTP server, third choice NNTP server. (Reason for local news feed being preferabl is that it protects the NNTP traffic which would otherwise allow eavesdroppers to observer which articles you were reading. SSL is only a partial solution because you are then trusting the SSL NNTP server operator.) Local servers don't generate any traffic, "local server" is really a misnomer, it is a local proxy for reading news... it presents a view of USENET articles which makes them appear as web pages. It keeps copies of those web pages more up to date versions are read in news, this allows fast access to the web space. There is a trade off between update period and size of web space as the amount of USENET traffic you can generate without annoying people is limited. Adam -- Now officially an EAR violation... Have *you* exported RSA today? --> http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/ print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 06:33:47 +0800 To: ravage@ssz.com Subject: forward secrecy for mixmaster & email (Re: remailer resistancs to attack) In-Reply-To: <199801161527.JAA10183@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199801162154.VAA00662@server.eternity.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Jim Choate writes: > Ryan Lacket writes: > > Traditional law enforcement takes so long to investigate, the keys > > could be canceled and replaced several times. > > This is another problem with the entire crypto process as now implimented. > Users of keys, either for encryption or signing, tend to think of the keys > as long term entities. Considering the increase in computing power, the > coming ubiquity of law enforcement monitoring on the network, increased > payoff for hackers as the traffic of personal info increases, and general > human failure keys should in fact be changed often (say a couple of times a > year, annualy at least) Make that instant key changes for mixmaster remailers by using forward secrecy and direct IP delivery to enable the interactive communications pattern required for immediate forward secrecy. Ulf Moeller (current mixmaster maintainer) has this on his to do list I think. Even for email, I spent a lot of time arguing with PGP Inc employees about how forward secrecy could be obtained within PGP 5.x. (The OpenPGP list seems to have gone dead... wonder what is going on.) The separate encryption and signature keys provided by PGP 5.x / OpenPGP allow you to have short lived encryption keys, and longer lived signature keys. The web of trust is provided by the signature keys. PGP 5.x implements automatic key update. It is cheap to generate new Elgamal keys every week or day or whatever if you share the public prime modulus. You can also opportunistically send use once Elgamal keys in messages which allows someone to have even more immediate forward secrecy. In addition you can use interactive forward secrecy between mail hubs, and you can also authenticate this with PGP's web of trust using a design I posted to cypherpunks and ietf-open-pgp towards the end of last year with a subject of something like "PGP WoT authenticated forward secrecy". Adam From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Kay Ping Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 06:28:53 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Eternity - an alternative approach Message-ID: <19980116220255.3116.qmail@nym.alias.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In one of the messages on the eternity thread someone suggested using radio signals. This is an interesting approach which certainly deserves further attention but digital radio requires special hardware which I prefer to avoid. However, some of the characteristics of radio signals can be emulated on the internet. Radio links are perfect for hiding the location of receivers. The equivalent for this is of course services like usenet and IRC. Both are already used for providing anonymity. Radio is also quite good at hiding the location of the transmitter - you tune your radio and the signals are just there, coming down your antenna. It takes special equipment to locate where they originated. It occured to me that the equivalent on the net would be to receive packets with invalid source addresses. They are just there, coming dowm the phone line to your modem. It takes significant resources and snooping on a massive scale to locate where they are coming from.. All this is assuming you can find some way to send a request with your address to the server. For eternity this means that the location of servers where documents are stored can be kept secret if they transmit the documents using packets with invalid source addresses. Receivers of eternity documents will not be able to tell where they are coming from. Since there is no bidirectional link between transmitter and receiver the protocol must be implemented over UDP. To protect against packet loss the data may be encoded with redundancy. The correction code can be similar to that used on RAID disk arrays - adding redundant blocks consisting of XOR of other blocks. Missing blocks can be reconstructed by XORing together other blocks received. To provide even better anonymity the transmitter may send the messages through one or more onion routers which decrypt one layer of encryption. These routers do not store information, do not know what information passes through them and do not know where it's coming from. Any packets they forward are sent without a valid source address. This should make them less vulnerable to attacks of all kinds. Can anyone speculate about their liability under US law? Putting caches on the routers will help both performance and security. Will it affect their liability in any way? If encryption is implemented properly all packets will look identical: blocks of random data of the same size and no source address. This will make traffic analysis difficult. The distance to the transmitter can be hidden by initializing the packet's time-to-live field to a value with random variations. That was the easy part. The hard part is to get the requests to the document servers without knowing their addresses. This can be done through the equivalent of remailer reply blocks or some kind of broadcast medium. The reply blocks would be implemented by the onion routers. Each hop could generate several copies, both for redundancy and as decoys. Packets used in reply blocks can look identical to packets with document data, including the use of invalid source addresses. In the broadcast version clients and servers subscribe to channels with many participants to hide their identity in the crowd. The system could use an existing service like IRC or a dedicated network, possibly based on modified IRC server code. Sympathizers with bandwidth to spare can subscribe too to provide better cover for the actual document servers. Servers could listen using trusted proxies or chains of semi-trusted proxies. The division into channels allows growth of the system if the total bandwidth of requests becomes too high. Using the public IRC networks has the advantages of being less suspicious and not requiring the deployment of new infrastructure. Requests could even be hidden steganographically in IRC traffic. Unfortunately, IRC server operators are touchy about abuse of their systems. Requests should be small. This allows replicating them to a large number of receivers without taking too much bandwidth. They can also be made to be of fixed size and contain no controversial information. Requests contain the document index as a compact one-way hash, the requester's IP address and the server's ID code. It may also contain hashcash or ecash payment. Requests should be encrypted to the server's public key. To keep them small, elliptic curve encryption may be used. A server may send random cover packets to hide the correlation between a request and its response. It may also add random delay before responding to the request. Delay will also help limit the bandwidth. Users of eternity need to be more patient that the average web surfer and the protocol should use generous timeouts. Since UDP has no flow control the server should always assume the client is using a modem connection and limit its transmission speed accordingly. Security has a price. The client software may be implemented as a local web proxy (in Java?) which identifies requests to eternityspace and converts them to this protocol. Public gateways may be set up to allow anyone to read eternity URLs. These public may also be used to protect the anonymity of the reader like the Anonymizer. Document servers and routers must be located on networks where there is no spoofed packet filtering. Since the common use of spoofed packets is in denial-of-service attacks more and more filters are being installed. It may become harder in the future to find places to put the servers and routers. I believe it should always be possible since it is not practical to implement filtering in places where there is a lot of traffic from different sources. In cases where the document server is located on a filtered network it may have to trust the routers to hide its location. This system is far from perfect: it has too many components and the weakest link is the transmission of requests to servers. I still believe it has some interesting sides which deserve further discussion. Your ideas are welcome. - ----------------- Kay Ping nop 'til you drop finger kping@nym.alias.net for key DF 6D 91 18 A6 59 41 96 - 89 01 69 B7 9D0 4 AE 53 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3ia Charset: cp850 iQEPAwUBNL26txHPAso8Qp7tAQGLEAfPeRgIL3OqiG67CLBO9TCe/oV5lmw66Pz1 Wl17ajHeSCX6qjACSZ3La73drUjIftL0G/18PkLd48VGmsF6izCnXB4fh8MAB6Ve QWjhRTvRSkKkwXK4t2tx6CUCdxOaJ9Phd6J02Z+MdjEGJ3jAdUdaHWo5zM5i6Ris wkgATEhGMpw8tjlnvR4erwu51iSrt62huPWJXl1pjyPfQbl0iyQtcGdQ1spIWLJC oaOI7QchHK3LjSuzN54MVCjRdz8fiI6JHAUnlqqsW29LBOZQkSnQedORCuIALwqe qOhSxMKbciLdVde3BBtpILpz5y91ulAecxOOwcnc7m5Pjw== =iLP5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Adam Back Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 06:34:25 +0800 To: gonad99@earthlink.net Subject: what are cypherpunks about? In-Reply-To: <199801161822.KAA26360@denmark.it.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <199801162205.WAA00681@server.eternity.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain [I am keeping this Cc of the list as I have come across 4 or 5 people in the last month or so, most of who have been readers of the list for years, but who were not up to date with the fact that cypherpunks list is not located at toad.com.] James Little writes: > I just don't understand what it is u guys are really about. Please > help. First I think you are subscribed to the old list... toad.com only covers some of the traffic. See: http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/cp.html for instructions on subscribing to the current cypherpunks list home. For what cypherpunks are about, cypherpunks are about crypto-anarchy, which some thing will long term corrode the power of governments, needless to say most here also think this would be a good thing. You should read Tim May's cyphernomicon: http://www.oberlin.edu/~brchkind/cyphernomicon/ You might find these books interesting also: "Snow Crash", Neal Stephenson "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress", Heinlein "Machinery of Freedom", David Friedman 2nd Ed. Paperback Published by Open Court Publishing Company Publication date: August 1989 ISBN: 0812690680 People also recommend "True Names" by Vernor Vinge, but I have been unable to obtain a copy so far. Perhaps someone could scan it and post it on the eternity servers. Adam -- Now officially an EAR violation... Have *you* exported RSA today? --> http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/ print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I think people here seriously underestimate how long nanotech will take. Suppose you have a machine which takes atoms and deposits them onto a surface, building it up layer by layer. This is possible with today's technology, but it's a slow process. Consider this: If someone builds a replicator which takes a week to make a copy of itself, every person on this entire planet could have one within eight months. Think about it. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: igor@Algebra.COM (Igor) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 12:15:15 +0800 To: cypherpunks@www.video-collage.com Subject: Deriving economic profits from writing FREE software? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Hi, At my leisure, I write free software. One of these programs is the usenet moderation bot STUMP. Right now I am writing another free program. I feel perfectly comfortable with the idea that I will not CHARGE money for these programs; for one, I am a beneficiary of a multitude of excellent free programs written by others, and just as well i realize that selling them would be more of a hassle than it is worth. My another pet idea is that programming is poetry, and therefore a person who only writes commercial software is almost surely going to lose whatever gift in programming that he had from God. However, aside from the psychic benefits, I would like to somehow derive an economic profit from being a freeware author. So far, I feel that the status of the author of a popular package does sound good on a resume, but it is as far as I could get. Does anyone else feel the same way? Has anybody come up with a way to cash in on the free programs that he writes? Thank you. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- char*p="char*p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf(p,34,p,34);} \=/, _-===-_-====-_-===-_-==========-_-====-_ | @___oo ( )_ /\ /\ / (___,,,}_--= ) ) /^\) ^\/ _) =__ Anything is good and useful if ) ) /^\/ _) (_ ) ) _ / / _) ( ) /\ )/\/ || | )_) (_ it's made of chocolate. ) < > |(,,) )__) ( ) || / \)___)\ (_ __) | \____( )___) )___ -==-_____-=====-_____-=====-___== \______(_______;;; __;;; From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 12:00:02 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Genetic & Tissue Engineering - The Learning Channel Message-ID: <199801170429.WAA13873@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Hi, FYI The show that was mentioned the other night regarding tissue and limb growth was shown tonite on The Learning Channel from 9pm to 10pm central. If you're interested check your schedule for a repeat. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Steve Mynott Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 06:48:37 +0800 To: Adam Back Subject: Re: non-transferable signatures (Re: Crypto Kong penetration.) In-Reply-To: <19980116104604.39449@tightrope.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: <19980116224808.11732@tightrope.demon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Fri, Jan 16, 1998 at 03:30:05PM +0000, Adam Back typed: > You can use non-transferable signatures for private email, but it's > probably better not to sign publically posting messages, unless you > have a persistent anonymous nym unlinkable with your meat space > persona. Hmm this is a very good point which may explain the limited use of PGP on this list anyway. I also wonder whether the low uptake of PGP is more due to it being too hard to use between different mailers and too hard to use generally for the nontechnical. SMIME of course despite bad cypherpunk karma is easy and maybe even works between mailers. -- Steve Mynott tel: 0956 265761 pgp: 1024/D9C69DF9 88 91 7A 48 40 72 BD AC 4D 71 59 47 01 AC 56 E9 There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle. --A. Einstein From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 06:40:02 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: I'm going to count to ten... Message-ID: <199801162225.XAA28511@basement.replay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain TruthMonger wrote: > I also sent a letter a few weeks ago to Ted Kaczynski, offering to >carry on his work while he is incarcerated. I got a letter back from >him today, but I'm afraid to open it... TM, Do us all a favor--open the letter! From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 07:05:23 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com Subject: Re: Sun to fight MS w/ new workstations [CNN] In-Reply-To: <199801130006.SAA24034@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199801162300.AAA03770@basement.replay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > More related sites... PALO ALTO, Calif.(Reuters) - Sun Microsystems > Inc. will launch a new line of workstations Tuesday, aiming to > challenge its rivals and blunt the spread into markets for > high-powered desktop computers used by engineers of PCs using > Microsoft Corp.'s Windows NT. Hmm... Considering that you can buy a PC w/ Linux and have a Unix workstation for less than the cost of a new computer with NT, I wonder who Sun is really targetting here. Most of the people buying NT are the same people who bought their last OS from Microsoft, and don't feel like trying anything new. Sun's real problem is that they were charging much more for their computers than it would cost to put together the parts. Hence, the drop in demand. But I suppose 'The evil Microsoft Empire is taking away our customers' makes for better headlines, even if it is bullshit. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Bill Frantz Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 02:56:39 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: call for proposals: "Media, Democracy and the Public Sphere" inJune 1998 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I wonder what these peoples' take on the Internet is? If the net isn't a "democratic public sphere", what is? >Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 13:56:01 -0800 (PST) >Reply-To: cda96-l@willamette.edu >Originator: cda96-l@willamette.edu >Sender: cda96-l@willamette.edu >Precedence: bulk >From: "T. L. Kelly" >To: Multiple recipients of list >Subject: call for proposals: "Media, Democracy and the Public Sphere" in >June 1998 > >The Union for Democratic Communications (UDC) invites participation in >its next international meeting, June 11-14, 1998, in San Francisco, >California, addressing the topic "Media, Democracy and the Public >Sphere." > >UDC welcomes papers, audiovisual works, panels, workshops and projects >that break with traditional, monological approaches, to promote dialogue >and interaction around questions of critical communications and media >activism, as suggested below. Please send proposals for presentations >by no later than MARCH 1, 1998, to: > > Prof. Bernadette Barker-Plummer > 1998 UDC Conference Chair > Department of Communication > University of San Francisco > 2130 Fulton Street > San Francisco, CA 94117 > email: barkerplum@usfca.edu > >The UDC steering committee suggests the following perspectives on the >conference topic, "Media, Democracy and the Public Sphere": the mass >media are flourishing today; a democratic public sphere is not. What, >then, are the possibilities of resolving the conflicts between a "mass" >media and a "democratic" public sphere? > >Facets of this question which participants may wish to address include >the concept of "the public interest"; the role of public media systems >in the creation of a democratic public sphere; the role of media policy >in helping or hindering democracy; the role of media in >(trans)national"democratization" processes; the dissemination of radical >claims through alternative, community and mainstream media; the ways in >which the everyday media practices of the public help or hinder the >creation of a democratic public sphere; the education of media workers >in the interest of democracy; and the utilization of information >technolgies for and against democracy. > >The host institution is arranging affordable conference housing on the >campus of the University of San Francisco, which, however, requires >timely registration. Please send in your proposal early to faciliate >rapid notification of acceptances in early March! The San Francisco >host committee is also scheduling plenary sessions with featured >speakers and joint evening outings into the city. This promises to be >an very engaged and productive gathering of international media >activists, practitioners, theorists and historians. Please contact Prof. >Barker-Plummer, conference chair, with any questions: > barkerplum@usfca.edu > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Frantz | | Periwinkle -- Consulting (408)356-8506 | All politicians should ski.| 16345 Englewood Ave. frantz@netcom.com | | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 07:47:14 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: Eternity Services In-Reply-To: <199801120523.AAA12947@the-great-machine.mit.edu> Message-ID: <199801162343.AAA12152@basement.replay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Lucky Green wrote: > And the demand for such ecash systems is real. I personally carried a $10 > million offer for a non-exclusive license for the blind signature patent > to David Chaum. He declined the offer. "The patent is not for license". > DigiCash's CEO since March of last year, Mike Nash, also told me that > DigiCash was not considering licensing the patent. I knew that day that it > was time to quit. Not surprisingly, nobody heard from DigiCash since. You could challenge the patent, and probably win, for less than $10 million. There is quite a bit of prior art that Chaum neglected to disclose, especially a certain incident where Chaum, as editor of Crypto '84 proceedings, tried to supress part of ElGamal's paper which discussed 'signature conversion' (aka blind signatures). From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Rabid Wombat Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 03:57:23 +0800 To: Anonymous Subject: Re: Kaczynski attempts suicide In-Reply-To: <199801161731.SAA19055@basement.replay.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain May have been a fake attempt to push the insanity defense along. On Fri, 16 Jan 1998, Anonymous wrote: > > SACRAMENTO, California (AP) -- The judge in Theodore Kaczynski's > > trial declared him "lucid, calm" and free from signs of mental > > illness just hours before the Unabomb suspect tried to kill himself > > in his cell. > > > I don't get it. The guy is facing the death penalty, and now they're > trying to keep him alive. > > From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Adam Back Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 02:45:46 +0800 To: ravage@ssz.com Subject: Re: non-transferable signatures (Re: Crypto Kong penetration.) (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801162319.RAA12288@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199801170202.CAA00371@server.eternity.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Jim Choate writes: > Adam Back writes: > > when for example the USG adds cypherpunks to it's growing list of > > terrorist organisations. > > We're an 'organization'? Where is my monthly newsletter?....;) There are a bunch of people subscribed to a mailing list called cypherpunks. There is no organisation, this is an anarchy, as can be readily observed :-) I only used `list of terrorist organisations' because I think that is the US government term for their little black list. > In general I have to agree with Adam though, in the real world with > ubiquitous and surreptitious monitoring signing documents is actualy a > liability in many if not most cases. About the only exception is dealing > with a contractual relationship. Even for contracts I think you would be better off not connecting to your meat space persona if you could help it. eg. Use a nym, post a bond with a high reputation cyberspacial arbitration service, use designated verifier non transferable signatures to allow the arbitration service and other party to the transaction to verify your signature, but to make the signature non-transferable to other parties. Adam -- Now officially an EAR violation... Have *you* exported RSA today? --> http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/ print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 03:00:50 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: Nanotechnology In-Reply-To: <199801162110.WAA17429@basement.replay.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >I think people here seriously underestimate how long nanotech will take. >Suppose you have a machine which takes atoms and deposits them onto a >surface, building it up layer by layer. This is possible with today's >technology, but it's a slow process. I don't think it's that far away. Decades (or at least years) ago, the US Navy developed a laser so focused and controlled it could write messages on one face of a cube of salt. Best wishes and fresh-roasted peanut taste, The Sheriff. -- ****** - --- As kinky as it sounds, finger me to see my PGP key and confirm the signature attached to this message. Either that, or head for pgp.ai.mit.edu on the WWW and search for my e-mail address. - --- Any and all SPAM will be met with immediate prosecutory efforts. Solicitations are NOT welcome here! - --- ----BEGIN INFLAMATORY BLOCK---- Version: 160 (IQ) Comments: Definitely one of their greatest misses. Reporter: "Do you know what Public Enemy is?" - --- Citizen: "Public enemy?" [long pause] "Probably somebody in office." -----END INFLAMATORY BLOCK----- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBNMDw1ABMw4+NR29ZAQEZPwf+Nscubdhe+0M0SxQTwXqWz4u8Wv9YbxvI o1MV1MFxy5f2fCjiNglBYzW6VWMBg2Xz+WPsUOhcdiUMiF0UGyhgwg9dfIE5HXxR /8QWSlhQaio2Qt+uw5a18h74qjKca2jvWTKxYhgBU6p8B8W0FlGemvJVPe0lR1cD hKylwlqrAX9f/ofi9RZODEL/7RIHR2bgEqDrRoO29Lu9Wgyj+FoV1ZTBV0IOZnc0 O8y5xsjkzazZoC0dhwkUk2aTn5qQoSA6djhefUuCsmRlYg81NdWHa4375UgXw5ji XHNDFK7mNsAgIvE7StGkr2eCkaSLkep+R4OF5vADYvALvfA0H67yMw== =p4aS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: The Sheriff Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 03:01:14 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: I'm going to count to ten... In-Reply-To: <199801162225.XAA28511@basement.replay.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >TruthMonger wrote: >> I also sent a letter a few weeks ago to Ted Kaczynski, offering to >>carry on his work while he is incarcerated. I got a letter back from >>him today, but I'm afraid to open it... > >TM, >Do us all a favor--open the letter! Yeah, and forward to the list the entire contents. I wanna see what this guy has to say. He'll prolly condem you as a fake for using the technology of the US Postal Service to contact him, or something. Best wishes and fresh-roasted peanut taste, The Sheriff. -- ****** - --- As kinky as it sounds, finger me to see my PGP key and confirm the signature attached to this message. Either that, or head for pgp.ai.mit.edu on the WWW and search for my e-mail address. - --- Any and all SPAM will be met with immediate prosecutory efforts. Solicitations are NOT welcome here! - --- ----BEGIN INFLAMATORY BLOCK---- Version: 160 (IQ) Comments: Definitely one of their greatest misses. Reporter: "Do you know what Public Enemy is?" - --- Citizen: "Public enemy?" [long pause] "Probably somebody in office." -----END INFLAMATORY BLOCK----- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBNMDw3wBMw4+NR29ZAQEPZQf9GxMXfbABz1r4quv9U+oJvMLjAL9PWS79 j3mCZIo7rR5yFPM3h/l89sseilpeNA9Rgnim1CaoS0WXmKBOsvy3xV8vXNdKxlTU s2Q2wLZFXF1sXxL8aDNgKzVVRBtR+Ayqd+j5yT5aGOloglXopaECxp44IH3GCMbg Jn2YwRNKOgHop3pwD7kAWqbisjH9EhBje1i7NpJ9FsgOqCKknDkI56O2GxW1ArVo cvlYdrWlXObwIQnZKxAtFyz6NHI57Aes5vvMeDIlVGBRsDxT/ziD08uB044vYCeS YVNgjL9rRpAg5H8/VmaDy56Y65ok9FSS74Lg0IWFCtSqRmXmgug/cQ== =F3Ts -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: The Sheriff Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 03:02:19 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: I'm going to count to ten... etc In-Reply-To: <004b01bd22ce$7c76a6c0$ab8588d1@justice> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >And the solution to the speeding-ticket-giving >camera is, of course, camo paint jobs. But >you all knew that, right? I've allways found myself in a rather precarious position, when it comes to identifiable my car is. When I frequent a location (coffee house, restaurant) more than once, people suddenly recognize me because of the artwork on my car -- a mural of an oriental dragon painted on the driver's side, and a blue-n- black phoenix-in-progress on the passanger side. Obviously, this makes it easy for law enforcement officers to identify me after clocking me. I remem- ber my first (and last, as far as I'M concerned) police chase, when I was trying to catch up with a pal who I had to meet, who I spotted heading south while I was heading north on a particular superhighway. A cop flew past going north after I turned around, screamed through the midway, and flipped on his lights. I escaped, amazingly. I don't want to paint my car camo, because even though the murals were free (a la my adopted little brother), they took time and hold sentimental value (not to mention the fact that they turn a borning commuter hotrod into something I don't have to use the license plate to identify in a parking lot). Is there any other way to circumvent visual aquisition and identification of my vechicle? Besides a Klingon cloaking device, of course. Best wishes and fresh-roasted peanut taste, The Sheriff. -- ****** - --- As kinky as it sounds, finger me to see my PGP key and confirm the signature attached to this message. Either that, or head for pgp.ai.mit.edu on the WWW and search for my e-mail address. - --- Any and all SPAM will be met with immediate prosecutory efforts. Solicitations are NOT welcome here! - --- ----BEGIN INFLAMATORY BLOCK---- Version: 160 (IQ) Comments: Definitely one of their greatest misses. Reporter: "Do you know what Public Enemy is?" - --- Citizen: "Public enemy?" [long pause] "Probably somebody in office." -----END INFLAMATORY BLOCK----- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBNMDw6QBMw4+NR29ZAQHgnQf/fqbCxx6e/ajr8yjmi/ZLlipDcPhmauTh bgDk11a1t4qzDcRyw76QdugTbFyijnlVrbjyBw+1o2pBRkHohcMfhUieXBiMWGvN mfDunesShQfGZaCO5dXoih9SIEqQnsby4cxvVHX3DfvC/OZ7lM92FWSDjz7kYDPP nc3wG3gdZcBZnmx0LlYRZq0d9g8XZ/6pG+qFRl8UJY3tBoaTS4J7VHgKlFsVVROZ 247nNFtER3T/9U1pS4B+8eq/ebqvrjZHGdVJuCvl2k9u5oP1BgMMEJ/rnztVWSfX Inhzb4jk9r1ew0PUUafnn4U+MBc5dQh0PX1Ny32w8a65BAsedA/PWA== =urQZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "William H. Geiger III" Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 21:38:57 +0800 To: igor@Algebra.COM (Igor) Subject: Re: Deriving economic profits from writing FREE software? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801171351.IAA05548@users.invweb.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In , on 01/16/98 at 10:11 PM, igor@algebra.com (Igor) said: >Hi, >At my leisure, I write free software. One of these programs is the usenet >moderation bot STUMP. Right now I am writing another free program. I feel >perfectly comfortable with the idea that I will not CHARGE money for >these programs; for one, I am a beneficiary of a multitude of excellent >free programs written by others, and just as well i realize that selling >them would be more of a hassle than it is worth. >My another pet idea is that programming is poetry, and therefore a person >who only writes commercial software is almost surely going to lose >whatever gift in programming that he had from God. >However, aside from the psychic benefits, I would like to somehow derive >an economic profit from being a freeware author. So far, I feel that the >status of the author of a popular package does sound good on a resume, >but it is as far as I could get. >Does anyone else feel the same way? Has anybody come up with a way to >cash in on the free programs that he writes? Not much. Biggest boost from writting free software (other than the fact of having the software) is to one's reputation capital. If one was intrested in entering into a new field of programming (commercially) having a few programs under one's belt never hurts. Shareware is not a bad alternative. Thoses who like your programs and are intrested in supporting your efforts are usally willing to spend a couple of bucks. I wouldn't plan on quitting your day job but if your code is popular it can help offset expences. Another approach is to do what Phil did with PGP. Freeware to individules and pay for business use. This depends on whether there is a business need for your programs or not. Get a job at a University. :) If you really had somthing intresting that you were planning on doing you may be able to get some type of research grant. I think that you find that most freeware/shareware authors hold down a 9 to 5 job to pay the bills and write their code on the side. - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- Tag-O-Matic: If at first you don't succeed, work for Microsoft. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a-sha1 Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBNMCl649Co1n+aLhhAQGlvgP/dNtLV0A/qvzZZrXHYrNbqW3iAbRLPcbt ZyQuW0LHKr750o0cAiLW54O+h/3OtnA2BOLejuDoEnipkOY3QCrAshUCeWQoZw71 viw4hzhDIrXk/T6rhHM7y/GfLY8aYyNQ3pCK+Tb/L+uIxWakufPW0DimsMYgyA0K PNwHJGYgEro= =uCx1 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Anonymous Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 16:34:14 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Re: Microsoft Metaphors Message-ID: <199801170825.JAA23714@basement.replay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > > What are the best metaphors to use when talking about a browser > > and an operating system? Is the combination like a car and an > > engine, or a car and a roofrack? A pair of gloves? > >In this specific case it's more like garbage in a trash can. Nah. In this specific case it's more like shit and a toilet. Or if you wanted to get a bit obscure you could say that Windows is like LSD. It kills brain cells, attracts the really stupid in addition to the occasional person with a clue, and the typical user has random flashbacks when put in front of any computer at all. It has no useful purpose beyond making the user feel really good, costs a lot, and is dangerous to your (mental) health. It's produced, handled, and sold by a huge cartel (Microsoft) who shoots (runs out of business) anybody who opposes them. Those the cartel doesn't shoot they bribe (buy). And users enter into temporary or in some cases permanent fits of stupidity and hysteria during which they are a danger to anyone around them, particularly if they're armed (have a bulk mailer or platform-specific "web authoring tools" which produce crappy HTML). From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Adam Back Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 02:47:26 +0800 To: jya@pipeline.com Subject: Re: New Software Controls In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19980117020259.00733f54@pop.pipeline.com> Message-ID: <199801171025.KAA00273@server.eternity.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain [ObNote: the cypherpunks list is not at toad.com] John Young information terrorist writes: > TH points out that there's a broad new provision in the > BXA Wassenaar rule for controlling telecommunications > software under Category 5, Part I - Telecommunications, > quote: > > You might want to highlight the following section ... not sure of the > entire context ... but this isn't something that I'd seen before. It looks > like control of any software that can transmit data. > > c.3. ``Software'' which provides the capability of recovering > ``source code'' of telecommunications ``software'' controlled by > 5A001, 5B001, or 5C001; Export ban on decompilers? Disassemblers? Debuggers? These tools are general purpose, so this seems particularly weird. Adam From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: ghio@temp0181.myriad.ml.org (Matthew Ghio) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 00:49:10 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: Nanotechnology In-Reply-To: <199801162110.WAA17429@basement.replay.com> Message-ID: <199801171645.LAA01243@myriad> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain nobody@replay.com (Anonymous) wrote: > I think people here seriously underestimate how long nanotech will take. > Suppose you have a machine which takes atoms and deposits them onto a > surface, building it up layer by layer. This is possible with today's > technology, but it's a slow process. > > Consider this: If someone builds a replicator which takes a week to make > a copy of itself, every person on this entire planet could have one within > eight months. Think about it. Let's consider a rough estimate of whether this could actually work. Suppose you have a desktop fab with an ion gun that can put out 1 amp of current, housed in a 10-centimeter cube, and you want to build another cube. Assuming an average ionization energy of 10 eV and supposing this achieved an energy efficiency of 10% that'd be 100 watts. 1 coulomb/second = 6.24 x 10^18 atoms/sec. Assuming an atomic spacing of roughly 10^-10 meters, at that rate it'd take you about 18.5 days to construct one side of the cube with a thickness of 1mm, or almost four months to build another cube. I'd guesstimate another 4 months to build the electronics for it. And then you'd need some way to assemble the pieces. So roughly 8 months just to build one copy, rather than to achieve world domination. :) Still, unless I'm way off on these estimates, it's within the right ballpark. If the cubes were 1 cm, you could make copies in less than a day, assuming it didn't get too hot at that power level. Just figure out how you're going to feed the electricity and raw materials into all those little things... This sort of replicator is not what is usually considered nanotechnology, but if it actually worked, such a device could become quite popular. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jonathan Wienke Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 04:56:23 +0800 To: Jim Choate Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980117121208.006bc254@popd.netcruiser> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 At 05:48 PM 1/16/98 -0600, Jim Choate wrote: >Forwarded message: > >> Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 12:29:34 -0800 >> From: Jonathan Wienke >> Subject: Re: how to release code if the programmer is a target for >> coercion (fwd) > >[my entire previous post deleted...geesh] > >> Jim, there are > 2 parties in the matter being discussed: > >EXACTLY. That is why there is a potential for a MITM (requires at least >3 parties) attack. > >> My key is publicly available at the MIT keyserver; it has been since PGP >> 5.0 came out. > >So what? If Alice is being monitored for whatever reason and she requests >your key Mallet simply intercedes and inserts their own key. How is Alice >going to catch a clue? > >> key. It would be fairly difficult for any attacker to forge a signature >> with a false key; > >It isn't the source but the recipient that is under attack. > >[rest deleted] However, if Alice has had my key for 6 months, and has verified the signatures on 100 of my Cypherpunks posts, and my signature on GunzenBombs Pyro-Technologies latest checks out, she can be pretty confident that I actually signed it. On the other hand, if she didn't already have it, and got a fake key and document from Mallet, Alice would not be able to use the fake key to verify the signatures on my prior Cypherpunks posts. This ought to be a red-flagged clue that something is rotten in Denmark... -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Business Security 5.5 iQA/AwUBNMEQlsJF0kXqpw3MEQJA8ACeMcERuFEawbrfZBqBUCVIiCSy5CcAn0VU nsPmpqLqwenGnvgCYjyg3pdQ =7VZu -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Jonathan Wienke PGP Key Fingerprints: 7484 2FB7 7588 ACD1 3A8F 778A 7407 2928 3312 6597 8258 9A9E D9FA 4878 C245 D245 EAA7 0DCC "If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains set lightly upon you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." -- Samuel Adams "Stupidity is the one arena of of human achievement where most people fulfill their potential." -- Jonathan Wienke Never sign a contract that contains the phrase "first-born child." When the government fears the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny. Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't. RSA export-o-matic: print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 04:37:03 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: Nanotechnology (fwd) Message-ID: <199801172105.PAA15527@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 21:22:59 +0100 (MET) > Subject: Re: Nanotechnology > From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) > > 1 coulomb/second = 6.24 x 10^18 atoms/sec. There are a couple of things incorrect with this. A Coulomb is 1N of e-/s, not atoms. N atoms is called a Mole. N, or Avagadro's Number, is 6.023E23 not 6.24E18 ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 05:05:49 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: how to release code if the programmer is a target for (fwd) Message-ID: <199801172136.PAA15663@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 12:12:08 -0800 > From: Jonathan Wienke > Subject: Re: how to release code if the programmer is a target for (fwd) > However, if Alice has had my key for 6 months, and has verified the > signatures on 100 of my Cypherpunks posts, and my signature on GunzenBombs > Pyro-Technologies latest checks out, she can be pretty confident that I > actually signed it. On the other hand, if she didn't already have it, and > got a fake key and document from Mallet, Alice would not be able to use the > fake key to verify the signatures on my prior Cypherpunks posts. This > ought to be a red-flagged clue that something is rotten in Denmark... That's all fine and dandy, however, we *are* talking about an eternity server architecture that delivers documents to an end user in a secure manner on demand with no mechanism, by design, to determine the original source. In this case there would by definition be *no* history to verify against. It is in fact this lack of history from the users perspective that causes the authenticity problem in the first place. Further, a point that seems to have been forgotten, we are talking about signed and not encrypted documents. Of course there are some similar problems if we do include the encryption of the data itself into the protocol. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: bill payne Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 07:22:01 +0800 To: jy@jya.com Subject: REPLY to Mitchells RESPONSE. Message-ID: <34C13576.4F54@nmol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Saturday 1/17/98 3:37 PM John Young Attached is our REPLY to Mitchell's RESPONSE. Morales will have it filed on Tuesday. Monday is MLK day. Morales will send a FILED stamped copy to you. Later bill UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF NEW MEXICO William H. Payne ) Arthur R. Morales ) ) Plaintiffs, ) ) v ) CIV NO 97 0266 ) SC/DJS ) Lieutenant General Kenneth A. Minihan, USAF ) Director, National Security Agency ) National Security Agency ) ) Defendant ) REPLY TO DEFENDANT'S RESPONSE TO PLAINTIFFS' MOTION FOR SUMMARY JUDGMENT BASED ON EVIDENCE FROM ADMISSIONS 1 COMES NOW plaintiffs Payne [Payne] and Morales [Morales] [Plaintiffs], pro se litigants to exercise their rights guaranteed under the Constitution, Rules of Civil Procedure, and Local Civil Rules to respond to Defendant's MOTION filed on 98 JAN-5 within the 14 days allowed by local rule 7.3(b)(4). 2 US Attorney Mitchell [Mitchell] writes, Counsel for Defendant was not served with copies of any of said Requests for Admissions until sometime after the individuals had been served.2 Mitchell WAS SERVED PLAINTIFFS' FIRST SET OF REQUEST FOR ADMISSION TO NSA DIRECTOR KENNETH MINIHAN I HEREBY CERTIFY that a copy of the foregoing request for admissions was mailed to Jan Elizabeth Mitchell, Assistant US Attorney, 525 Silver SW, ABQ, NM 87102 this Monday November 3, 1997. Michell was not served with any other admissions since Mitchell is not representing others. Plaintiffs' served Defendant Minihan properly. And Minihan failed to respond to Minihan's admissions within the time allotted by law. 3 US Attorney Mitchell writes, As grounds for the Motion and Memorandum, Defendant argued that Plaintiffs had blatantly disregarded this Court's Order pertaining to the conduct of discovery and the deadline for discovery in this Freedom of Information Act action. Judges Svet and Campos willfully violated Plaintiffs' right to Discovery. And thereby earned criminal complaint affidavits filed with judge Scalia of the Supreme Court. 4 US Attorney Mitchell writes, In Defendant's Motion and Memorandum, Counsel for Defendant also objected to Plaintiffs' sua sponte decision to modify the Court's June 11 Order to reflect the delay of the Court's October 7 Order and the establishment, without leave of this Court, of new deadlines for discovery, motions practice, and the filing of the PreTrial Order. (Motion and Memorandum 9, at 4.) Judge Svet and Campos attempt to deny Plaintiffs' right to Discovery, again, earned Svet and Campos criminal complaint affidavits. Plaintiffs exercise their right under the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure and the Constitution to conduct Discovery WITHOUT LEAVE OF COURT! 5 US Attorney Mitchell writes, By their own request, Plaintiffs sought to stay a ruling on the Defendant's Motion and Memorandum. Absent any ruling on either the Motion and Memorandum or Plaintiffs' Response, Defendant Minihan, employees of NSA, and employees of Sandia National Laboratory, were not obligated to respond to the Requests for Admissions as provided by Fed.R.Civ.P. 36.3 For Plaintiffs to now assert in their "Motion for Summary Judgment On Based On Evidence From Admissions" that because the individuals have not responded to the Requests for Admissions they are deemed admitted, flies in the face of their own prayer to this Court to stay a ruling on the Defendant's Motion to strike the Requests for Admissions until the Supreme Court takes action. Plaintiffs' have REPEATEDLY asked judge Svet and Campos to disqualify themselves from any rulings on this case because Campos and Svet do NOT obey the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure. Replace judges Svet and Campos because these judges have demonstrated, IN WRITING, they do not follow the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure. Plaintiffs' pleas are directed a replacement judge[s]. Not Svet and Campos. Therefore, Svet and Campos' failure to remove themselves does not stop the legal process. Mitchell cites NO law to support her claim that time constraints imposed under Fed.R.Civ.P. 36.3 are inapplicable as a result of Svet's and Campos' failure to remove themselves. 6 US Attorney Mitchell writes, Defendant requests that this Court either rule upon Defendant's Motion and Memorandum granting the request to strike the Requests for Admissions, or grant Plaintiffs' request to stay this action pending the issuance of the order sought by Plaintiffs in another forum. Should this Court deny Defendant's Motion and Memorandum, Defendant respectfully requests that the individuals to whom Requests for Admissions are appropriate in this action be given the thirty days to respond to said admissions as provided by the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure. REPLACEMENT JUDGES of the Court should realize the outcome of the lawsuit has attained international interest as a result of the 1 bungled NSA spy sting on Iran 2 US government agencies NSA, NIST, and the FBI's attempt to control cryptography. Mitchell's DEFENDANT'S RESPONSE TO PLAINTIFFS' MOTION FOR SUMMARY JUDGMENT BASED ON EVIDENCE FROM ADMISSIONS was posted on Internet at jya.com, click cryptome nsasuit8.htm USA/NSA Responds to Payne/Morales Motion January 16, 1998 Importance of this posting is summed-up in the Toronto Sun, Jan. 11, 1998 US, Iran Need Each Other by Eric Margolis Iran launched a surprise charm offensive last week, throwing Washington into serious confusion. In a lengthy interview on CNN, Iran's new president, Mohammad Khatami, skillfully analyzed the bitter relations between the two nations and cautiously extended an olive branch to Washington, calling for an end to their 19-year cold war. Khatami's diplomatic ju-jitsu flummoxed the Clinton administration, which was busy trying to rally international support against Tehran - and to overthrow Iran's elected government. Both capitals are split over the question of relations. In Washington, the military establishment and conservative Republicans have inflated Iran into a bogeyman to justify military budgets and keep U.S. forces in the Mideast. ... America incited Iraq to invade Iran in 1980. They did this to crush the Islamic revolution, then provided massive war aid to Saddam Hussein. Half a million Iranians died. The US got caught involved in genocide. Using high tech. This is one subject of this lawsuit. Albuquerque Journal Tuesday 1/13/98 carried the editorial. Khatami Move Is Profile in Courage Richard Reeves Syndicated Columnist LOS ANGELES - If an American leader had done what Iranian President Mohammed Khatami did last Wednesday, it would have been hailed as a profile in courage. ... Miscalculation! We armed and pampered Saddam Hussein in the hope that Iraq would destroy Iran. Now that's policy and behavior to think about. Here is something to think about: If Presidents Eisenhower and Kennedy had pursued any kind of sensible policy toward Cuba and Fidel Castro - opposed to the policy of trying to assassinate him - there never would have been a Cuban missile crisis. I think Iranians have financed and encouraged terrorism against the interests of the United States and Israel. I would not be surprised at all if something like proof emerges soon, perhaps anonymously, from the CIA and other government agencies, where many officials have built their careers on sanctioning and isolating Iran, to try to straighten the backbones of the president and people of the United States. If they succeed, America fails. What would be more effective in closing down Iranian terrorism? More hostility, sanctions and charges? Or beginning the process toward more normal relations with a country positioned and born to be great? ... Clearly genocide fits into Now that's policy and behavior to think about. The wired world is watching what this Court, hopefully minus judges Svet and Campos, will do. What is there to be? A series of possibly unfortunate events? Or does this Court order release the lawfully requested documents to help settle this American tragedy? WHEREFORE. 7 Have replacement judges of this Court DENY Mitchell's Plaintiffs requested a stay. Absent a ruling from this Court denying their request, they cannot proceed to assert that the Requests for Admissions are deemed admitted. Accordingly, Plaintiffs' "Motion For Summary Judgment On Based On Evidence From Admissions" must be denied. for reason that Mitchell's request to subvert both the Discovery processes and its time limits have no basis in law. And appears to plead to judges who do not obey the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure. 9 IMMEDIATELY ORDER Defendant to release the requested documents in the interest of national safety so that this matter can be settled. Aggrieved victims of US genocide are reading these pleadings. Respectfully submitted, _________________________ William H. Payne 13015 Calle de Sandias NE Albuquerque, NM 87111 _________________________ Arthur R. Morales 1024 Los Arboles NW Albuquerque, NM 87107 Pro se litigants CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE I HEREBY CERTIFY that a copy of the foregoing memorandum was mailed to Lieutenant General Kenneth A. Minihan, USAF, Director, National Security Agency, National Security Agency, 9800 Savage Road, Fort George G. Meade, MD 20755-6000 and hand delivered to John J. Kelly, US Attorney, 525 Silver SW, ABQ, NM 87102 this Tuesday January 20, 1997. 5 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: ghio@temp0183.myriad.ml.org (Matthew Ghio) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 05:18:05 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: Nanotechnology In-Reply-To: <199801172022.VAA15751@basement.replay.com> Message-ID: <199801172114.QAA08494@myriad> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain nobody@replay.com (Anonymous) wrote: > ok, but how do you build a 10-cm cube inside of a 10-cm cube? :) > Rotate the six faces of the cube so that the squares fit inside, and then unfold it when you're done. Possibly you could build two cubes at once, then have the cube break open and the two 'babies' come out. I think the toughest thing would be to maintain vacuum inside after you assemble the new cubes. Maybe you could launch them out of the atmosphere instead - It'd be a cheap way to build a lunar colony. :) From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Markus Kuhn Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 01:27:41 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Locating radio receivers In-Reply-To: <19980116220255.3116.qmail@nym.alias.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Kay Ping wrote on 1998-01-16 22:02 UTC: > Radio links are perfect for hiding the location of receivers. Actually, this is only true for extremely carefully shielded military receivers and not for normal radios. Every receiver contains a local oscillator to bring the signal down to intermediate frequency (IF), which is emitting EM waves itself. In addition, the IF signal is emitted as well. As Peter Wright reported in his autobiography, British counterintelligence (MI5) used vans and planes already in the 1950s to detect spys while they received radio communication messages from Moscow and to protocol, which frequency bands the embassies were monitoring (operation RAFTER). Efficient receiver detection is an active process: You send out short bursts of a wideband jamming signal and try to find the downtransformed intermediate frequency equivalent of your burst in the compromising emanations of the receiver. This way, you get not only the location of the receiver, but also the precise frequency to which it is tuned. Locating radio receivers within a radius of many hundred meters this way was already state of the art in the spook community over 40 years ago, so you can safely assume that with digital signal processing, the performance parameters of modern systems have been increased significantly. Sending out spread-spectrum style pseudo-noise signals in the active probing bursts could give you in modern receiver detectors a considerable signal gain. Markus -- Markus G. Kuhn, Security Group, Computer Lab, Cambridge University, UK email: mkuhn at acm.org, home page: From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Vipul Ved Prakash Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 21:43:03 +0800 To: nobody@replay.com Subject: Re: Nanotechnology In-Reply-To: <199801162110.WAA17429@basement.replay.com> Message-ID: <199801171808.SAA03742@fountainhead.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Anonymous wrote: > I think people here seriously underestimate how long nanotech will take. > Suppose you have a machine which takes atoms and deposits them onto a > surface, building it up layer by layer. This is possible with today's > technology, but it's a slow process. Quantum Well Lasers are three atomic layers of gallium indium arsenide, packed between ultra-thin layers of indium phosphide and used in all high speed CDROM drives on the market. The revolution is closer than you think! Vipul -- Powell lingered. "How's Earth?" It was a conventional enough question and Muller gave the conventional answer, "Still spinning." -- "Reason", Asimov. ================================================================== Vipul Ved Prakash | - Electronic Security & Crypto mail@vipul.net | - Web Objects 91 11 2233328 | - PERL Development 198 Madhuban IP Extension | - Linux & Open Systems Delhi, INDIA 110 092 | - Networked Virtual Spaces From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Ryan Lackey Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 08:15:05 +0800 To: Jim Choate Subject: Re: how to release code if the programmer is a target for (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain (Jim Choate) writes: > > That's all fine and dandy, however, we *are* talking about an eternity server > architecture that delivers documents to an end user in a secure manner on > demand with no mechanism, by design, to determine the original source. In > this case there would by definition be *no* history to verify against. > > It is in fact this lack of history from the users perspective that causes > the authenticity problem in the first place. Further, a point that seems > to have been forgotten, we are talking about signed and not encrypted > documents. Of course there are some similar problems if we do include the > encryption of the data itself into the protocol. Eternity delivers data. It's up to the user to verify that the data is what they want, be it PGP signed by the pope, a working cryptosystem, or whatever. In this sense, it's no different than random email or whatever as an untrusted transport medium. The original question was how to verify the eternity server source code. I assume the following: * a potentially corrupted author (give rdl $100 000 and he'll probably make a minor modification which has no apparent mal effects, give him $100 000 000 and he'll be a hired gun). The author is optionally anonymous. * A community of publically-known cypherpunks and code-verifiers, not all of which are corrupted, but some of which may be. * A random user who has the public keys of at least (thresh) number of the cypherpunks, optionally the key of the author of the document/product before the system becomes questionable, perhaps by looking in the NY Times for 1 Jan 1999 which has a full page ad taken out by Cypherpunks Anonymous with the PGP public keys for the 100 leading cypherpunks. * The piece of code to be verified is bloody long, that is, longer than any one cypherpunk can afford to verify alone (shooting practice, installing the minefields and poison gas sprinkler system, etc. take lots of time) * The user can tell by visual inspection that a small compilation system does what they want it to do, and can understand basic logic enough to tell what signatures imply. Then: 1) The author releases the code into the network in an optionally anonymous way. There is no reason to trust the code -- even if it is signed with rdl's eternity dds signing key, no one has any reason to believe that it isn't an NSA front, since rdl is assumed to be corrupt, signing anything put in front of him (as long as sufficient money is put there too) 2) The user wants to run the code, because it's Just That Cool. 3) No one can verify the entire code. So, Cypherpunks begin signing small sections of the code with their own previously-established key. Their keys are established as their reputation is established on the list, or perhaps by personally meeting these people, in the traditional PGP web of trust scheme. There is no central Cypherpunks Registry, just a decentralized mesh. 4) The user executes the compilation script. This script looks at the pgp signatures, sees which ones it can verify from keys it already has accepted as valid by (3), and, if there are verified good keys from at least the minimum number of people in every critical section of the code, it is added to the compile-me-source-tree. If there are enough people for every critical section (the user defines all aspects of this), the source tree is set up for compilation, and compilation can proceed. The user knows that every piece of the code in the system has been verified to their standards -- even if the author of the code is an evil NSA sleeper agent, it has gotten by independent review by at least a user-defined-number of people per section. I fail to see how the specifics of Eternity are relevant -- it's just basically a PGP web of trust issue. The transport is irrelevant -- it's untrusted code until it's been verified by people the user trusts. Implementing a keyserver in Eternity has the same issues -- you still need to deal with the PGP web of trust issues. Signing my secret alias key with my own key as the only signature and uploading it to eternity would fail to provide privacy, just as it would if I posted it anonymously to the mailing list. One working system is the buildup of "reputation capital" by an identity using the key. Again, this is entirely irrelevant to the Eternity server -- verifying document authenticity is better handled at the client side. Eternity should be set up so as long as your ecash is good, your document is stored -- if I want to store my document under the name "disney's greatest hits" when it really contains necrophilic kiddie-porn and microsoft warez, that's my business. The client software for interacting with Eternity, however, might do well to have a good document authentication interface. And perhaps third-party authentication services could pop up, willing to sign documents that just meet gross criteria for valid indexing. You could then download the key for that service somehow, then use the service happily. The abstract issue has been beaten to death on cypherpunks many times. I just assert that Eternity is no different from "the Net", "the Web", "remailer networks", "Blacknet", etc. in issues of document verification and anonymous reputation capital. -- Ryan Lackey rdl@mit.edu http://mit.edu/rdl/ From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 08:55:27 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: how to release code if the programmer is a target for (fwd) Message-ID: <199801180123.TAA16226@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Subject: Re: how to release code if the programmer is a target for (fwd) > From: Ryan Lackey > Date: 17 Jan 1998 19:07:10 -0500 > Eternity delivers data. It's up to the user to verify that the data is > what they want > The original question was how to verify the eternity server source code. How are these fundamently different? Assume for a moment that as a user of an eternity server the source is the data I want. > I assume the following: > * a potentially corrupted author (give rdl $100 000 and he'll probably > make a minor modification which has no apparent mal effects, give him > $100 000 000 and he'll be a hired gun). The author is optionally > anonymous. The point I am making is that whether the author is corrupt or not is irrelevant. > * A community of publically-known cypherpunks and code-verifiers, > not all of which are corrupted, but some of which may be. Ok. > * A random user who has the public keys of at least (thresh) number of the > cypherpunks, optionally the key of the author of the document/product before > the system becomes questionable, perhaps by looking in the NY Times > for 1 Jan 1999 which has a full page ad taken out by Cypherpunks Anonymous > with the PGP public keys for the 100 leading cypherpunks. Pretty expensive and rather unrealistic I suspect. Where does this random user come from? What is '(thresh)'? What good would an anonymous key signature provide? You can't verify it within the web of trust model, that would imply the author wasn't anonymous which takes us back to the 'friends' attack. How do we know that some number of these cypherpunks aren't turned? Are you proposing that the user test all 100 of the signatures? Which realisticaly is the only way to verify any given one of them. Not very many people will go to that extreme simply for grins and giggles. > * The piece of code to be verified is bloody long, that is, longer than > any one cypherpunk can afford to verify alone (shooting practice, > installing the minefields and poison gas sprinkler system, etc. take > lots of time) The standard is programs over ~10k lines is not comprehensible by a single individual on a line by line basis. > * The user can tell by visual inspection that a small compilation > system does what they want it to do, and can understand basic logic > enough to tell what signatures imply. 'small compilation system' of what? What who wants it to do? The author? Mallet? The end user? > Then: > 1) The author releases the code into the network in an optionally > anonymous way. There is no reason to trust the code -- even if it > is signed with rdl's eternity dds signing key, no one has any reason > to believe that it isn't an NSA front, since rdl is assumed to be > corrupt, signing anything put in front of him (as long as sufficient > money is put there too) It isn't the key of the author or the eternity server that is under attack by Mallet. It is the security of the individual user who is under assault. > 2) The user wants to run the code, because it's Just That Cool. We're talking here about users who want to get data that is illegal or otherwise incriminating or dangerous to one group or another. In particular let's consider the situation of a Lebanese freedom fighter in Isreal or perhaps a 'Free Burma' revolutionary in China. > 3) No one can verify the entire code. So, Cypherpunks begin signing > small sections of the code with their own previously-established key. > Their keys are established as their reputation is established on > the list, or perhaps by personally meeting these people, in the > traditional PGP web of trust scheme. There is no central Cypherpunks > Registry, just a decentralized mesh. Which doesn't effect the ability of Mallet to resign that code at the users end in order to break the users local security. > 4) The user executes the compilation script. [material describing script verification deleted] Mallet can re-write said script, especialy with the sorts of latency that the Eternity Server forces on the end user, such that it is consistent with the bogus keys the end-user gets. It is simply much easier to write scripts in a day than say 10 minutes. > I fail to see how the specifics of Eternity are relevant -- it's > just basically a PGP web of trust issue. The transport is irrelevant -- > it's untrusted code until it's been verified by people the user > trusts. The end user may not have people available to trust is the point. The reason the transport mechanism is relevant is that it is much easier to spoof a verification script if the user is not going to be surprised with 24 hour turn around on requests, whereas a responce time measured in minutes lessens the window of opportunity to Mallet significantly. It may come as a surprise to you and others but not everyone in the world can pick up a phone and call a 100 people all over the world and not raise some suspicion. > Implementing a keyserver in Eternity has the same issues While it is perfectly permissible to design Eternity or any data haven with inherent key servers, I believe it is a bad idea from a design perspective because it makes the code even larger, decreases the potential for monetary motives for indipendant key servers to appear, and if the server is compromised then the key server is also. It is more expensive if Mallet can be forced to deal with two indipendenat operators then a single monolithic operator. [rest deleted] ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 04:29:46 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: Nanotechnology Message-ID: <199801172022.VAA15751@basement.replay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > 1 coulomb/second = 6.24 x 10^18 atoms/sec. Assuming an atomic spacing > of roughly 10^-10 meters, at that rate it'd take you about 18.5 days to > construct one side of the cube with a thickness of 1mm, or almost four > months to build another cube. I'd guesstimate another 4 months to build > the electronics for it. And then you'd need some way to assemble the > pieces. ok, but how do you build a 10-cm cube inside of a 10-cm cube? :) From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 05:09:26 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: Nanotechnology In-Reply-To: <199801162110.WAA17429@basement.replay.com> Message-ID: <199801172105.WAA21255@basement.replay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain The Sheriff wrote: > >I think people here seriously underestimate how long nanotech will take. > >Suppose you have a machine which takes atoms and deposits them onto a > >surface, building it up layer by layer. This is possible with today's > >technology, but it's a slow process. > > I don't think it's that far away. Decades (or at least > years) ago, the US Navy developed a laser so focused and > controlled it could write messages on one face of a cube > of salt. You can also push atoms around with an AFM. It's just slow. But even if it did take a week or two to make something, it would still be practical. You'd probably have to wait a week to get something delivered by mail-order, so you might as well make it yourself. I wonder what Tim 'copyright is dead' May will think when anyone can make a Pentium clone in their back bedroom. :) From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "wabe" Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 15:20:55 +0800 To: "Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer" Subject: uh, Message-ID: <004601bd23fa$76d1d0a0$a78588d1@justice> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain --What is that weird lawsuit all about wheresome director of the NSA is getting sued forsomething? Does anyone know?-wabe --digsig EojdyErVslc/s6aQeIHwnOlMw3lUKJhdZc/ZeCNfe7H L4ctAUj8gI6C830BTXaeFrhHME7aCeT3ev4HKbeT 4HICjjQYriAdlICrERT+zrSEtB1bkK+b6iRoC6a0y From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Anonymous Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 12:01:53 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com Subject: Kaczynski attempts suicide Message-ID: <199801180345.EAA18335@basement.replay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >I don't get it. The guy is facing the death penalty, and now they're >trying to keep him alive. It's typical government arrogance. They can kill but nobody else can. And they demand that when they consider murdering somebody that the target not murder himself. Stupidity. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: bill payne Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 23:35:29 +0800 To: jy@jya.com Subject: diplomacy Message-ID: <34C21266.142B@nmol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I sure hope the following was diplomatic enough. NSA exhibited NO SENSE OF HUMOR when I pointed out 'deficiencies' in its crypto algorithm work. But, too, the agrieve Islamic fundamentalists may not have too good senses of humor. But with that experience, my sensitivities are hightened. Later, guys. Back to POSTCARD COMMUNICATIONS! Sunday 1/18/98 6:24 AM Jim Allen Thanks for the call on Friday night. You said that there might be a problem in the way the interrupts were turned on. I told you I would give this some thought. Here is the routine to turn on the interrupts ;* Call DasIntOn(IoPointer&, ErrorFlag&, SystemState&, IoData&(0, 0), ;* IoParm&(0, 0), LgradThres) from Visual Basic. DasIntOn PROTO FAR, VBIoPointer:dword, VBErrorFlag:dword, VBSystemState:dword, VBIoData:dword, VBIoParm:dword, VBLGradThres:dword DasIntOn PROC FAR EXPORT, VBIoPointer:dword, VBErrorFlag:dword, VBSystemState:dword, VBIoData:dword, VBIoParm:dword, VBLGradThres:dword Prolog ;* Stage 1 Get addresses of IOPointer, ErrorFlag, SystemState, ;* IoData, IoParm, LGradThres which point back into VB static array. mov eax, VBIoPointer ; get VB IoPointer address mov IoPointer, eax ; move it to asm mov eax, VBErrorFlag ; get VB ErrorFlag address mov ErrorFlag, eax ; mov it to asm mov eax, VBSystemState ; get VB SystemState address mov SystemState, eax ; move it to asm mov eax, VBIoData ; get VB IoData address mov IoData, eax ; move it to asm mov eax, VBIoParm ; get VB IoParm address mov IoParm, eax ; move it to asm mov eax, VBLGradThres ; get VB LGradThres address mov LGradThres, eax ; move it to asm ;* Stage 2 zero the interrupt counter and system state mov IntCount, 0 mov LocalSysState, 0 ;* Stage 3 install dummy interrupt vector call SetDummyIntVector ; Set dummy IrqLevel interrupt ;* Stage 4 make sure interrupt is masked on the das board call DisableDasInt ;* Stage 5 Set up Irq level in bits 4-6 of register 9 call SetDasIrqLevel ;* Stage 6 set up counter 0 with number of rows AND enable ;* hardware trigger. This is done in Counter0SetUp. call Counter0SetUp ;* Stage 7 Enable interrupt on 8259a call EnableIrqMask ;* Stage 8 Set Irq 5 highest prority in 8259a - didn't seem to ;* make any difference in performance ; call Irg5HighestPriority ;* Stage 9 Burst length set-up call EnableDasBurstMode ;* Stage 10 - clear fifo call InitDasFifo ; read and discard 256 fifo words ;* Stage 11 Set application interrupt vector call SetDasIntVector ; Set IrqLevel interrupt vector ;* Stage 12 Set LocalIop to DataRows - 1. MOV ax, DataRows - 1 ; set LocalIop = DataRows mov LocalIop, ax ; les bx, IoPointer ; get address IoPointer% mov es:[bx], ax ; also set VB IoPointer% = 0 ;* Stage 13 Set hardware trigger call SetHardwareTrigger ;* Stage 14 Clear flip-flop on Pin 25 call ClearDasPin25 ;* Stage 15 Enable interrupt on das board call EnableDasInt Epilog ret 24 DasIntOn ENDP This got a bit complicated. The ComputerBoard clone of the Keithly-Metrabyte a/d converter powers-up in an UNKNOWN state. Or at least partially UNKNOWN. One of the random states includes triggering spurious interrupt. So a dummy handler had to be inserted to possibly field bad data. The attempt was made to interface directly to hardware without a microcontoller buffer was partially successful. Sampling at the 1 Khz rate revealed that Windows occasionally 'did its own thing' as a result of a task switch and, therfore, interrupts were missed. To detect when this happened we modified the ComputerBoards das 1400 board so that a hardware count of interrupts received could be compared to the software count. Since the a/d values were buffered a FIFO, the FAST Pentium could catch up. But this caused the interrupt handler to increase in size from about 1 K lines, including white space and comments, to 2 K lines. Naturally we wish to be in the problem solving, as opposed to problem creating, or assignation of blame. I think we have to consider all possible problem sources. I am looking at the AC POWER INTERFACE LS SOV Schematic dated 11-8-96. I see that the power to the analog and digital cards was run via a serial port db 25 cable and connector. Pin assignment are Pin Function 1 -15 G 2 +15 GS 3 +5 G 4 +15 G 5 5 GS 6 tied to pin 7 7 +15S 8 15 S 9 5 10 tied to pin 10 11 +15 12 tied to pin 11 13 15 S 14 tied to pin 1 15 +5 GS 16 tied to pin 3 17 nc 18 tied to pin 5 19 +24 ground 20 tied to pin 19 21 +5 S 22 tied to pin 9 23 tied to pin 22 24 +24 volts 25 tied to pin 24 The +24 volts runs to solenoids. The remaining power runs to both digital and analog Ics. While some are left wondering why engineers had not thought of running analog, digital and solenoid power down an inexpensive 24 pin PC serial port cable before, perhaps, we might all guess, other engineers lack sufficient innovative audacity. One engineer opined last summer, when I was working in the shop on the digital FX, that the PC Data System boards may have to be redesigned. Let's hope that such a major revision is not required. Naturally, me being a TOTAL CONSERVATIVE [as evidenced by Morales and my genocide court filing], I plan to physically separate the analog and digital IC s on the digital FX. And I am thinking about on-board power regulation to keep the 80c32, analog, and digital chips super-happy. In the field, of course. I will leave in several hours. In my grey rabbit. Air travel safety worries me more now. Especially after publication of last book. Just in case, I will bring my passport. The thought of two machines located 180 miles NW of Edmonton not working well is, of course, chilling. I sure glad the 8051 version of PC Data System is working fairly well. And is MAKING money for Metriguard. See you on Tuesday, Allah willing. Later bill Title: Payne/Morales v. NSA -- Defendant's Response to Motion for Summary Judgment 16 January 1998 Source: William H. Payne See related files: http://jya.com/whpfiles.htm U.S. Department of Justice United States Attorney District of New Mexico __________________________________________________________ Post Office Box 607 Albuquerque, New Mexico 87103 505/766-3341 505/766-2868 FAX 505/766-8517 January 5, 1998 W.H. Payne P.O. Box 14838 Albuquerque, New Mexico 87191 Re: Payne & Morales v. Minihan USDC NM CIV 97-0266 SC/DJS Dear Mr. Payne: Enclosed is a court-endorsed copy of Defendant's Response to Plaintiffs' Motion for Summary Judgment Based on Evidence from Admissions. Sincerely, JOHN J. KELLY United States Attorney [Signature] JAN ELIZABETH MITCHELL Assistant U. S. Attorney JEM/yh Enclosure cc/enc: Arthur R. Morales [Stamp] FILED United States District Court District of New Mexico 98 JAN -5 PM 3:46 Robert M. Marsh District Clerk IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF NEW MEXICO WILLIAM H. PAYNE ) ARTHUR R. MORALES ) ) Plaintiffs, ) ) vs. ) CIVIL NO. 97-026 SC/DJS ) LT GEN KENNETH A. MINIHAN ) USAF Director, National Security ) Agency, ) ) Defendant. DEFENDANT'S RESPONSE TO PLAINTIFFS' MOTION FOR SUMMARY JUDGMENT BASED ON EVIDENCE FROM ADMISSIONS Defendant Minihan responds to Plaintiff's Motion for Summary Judgment Based On Evidence From Admissions1 as follows: 1. Commencing in October, 1997, Plaintiffs served numerous sets of Requests for Admissions on various employees of the National Security Agency and on current and past employees of the Sandia National Laboratory. 2. Counsel for Defendant was not served with copies of any of said Requests for Admissions until sometime after the individuals had been served.2 ____________________ 1 It should be noted that the instant Motion for Summary Judgment constitutes Plaintiffs' second motion for summary judgment. Plaintiffs filed an initial Motion for Summary Judgment on June 4, 1997 to which Defendant responded on June 19, 1997, and Plaintiffs filed a Reply on July 1, 1997. Said initial Motion for Summary Judgment has not been ruled upon. In addition, Defendant filed a Motion to Dismiss Plaintiff Arthur R. Morales on September 23, 1997, and a Motion seeking dismissal of Plaintiff William Payne's Freedom of Information Act action on October 3, 1997. All briefing by all parties has been completed on those Motions. 2 On October 13, 1997, Plaintiffs mailed a First Set of Admissions to Kenneth Minihan. However, not until November 3, 1997, did Plaintiffs mail a copy of said First Set of Request for 3. Upon becoming aware that Plaintiffs had served Requests for Admissions on a number of individuals, on October 23, 1997, Counsel for Defendant filed a Motion and Memorandum To Strike Any And All Of Plaintiffs' First Set of Requests For Admissions To Various Employees Of The National Security Agency And To Various Employees Of Sandia National Laboratory, (hereinafter "Motion and Memorandum.") 4. As grounds for the Motion and Memorandum, Defendant argued that Plaintiffs had blatantly disregarded this Court's Order pertaining to the conduct of discovery and the deadline for discovery in this Freedom of Information Act action. 5. In Defendant's Motion and Memorandum, Counsel for Defendant also objected to Plaintiffs' sua sponte decision to modify the Court's June 11 Order to reflect the delay of the Court's October 7 Order and the establishment, without leave of this Court, of new deadlines for discovery, motions practice, and the filing of the PreTrial Order. (Motion and Memorandum ¶ 9, at 4.) 6. In the Motion and Memorandum, Defendant requested that this Court strike any and all "First Set of Request for Admission" propounded by Plaintiffs. (Motion and Memorandum, at 5.) 7. Plaintiffs responded to the Motion and Memorandum on November 5, 1997, specifically seeking that this Court "take no action in this case until Supreme court takes action on writs on ____________________ Admissions to Counsel for Defendant. Counsel for Defendant was not provided with copies of any other Requests for Admissions sent to employees of NSA or employees of the Sandia National Laboratory. 2 mandamus, prohibition, and criminal complaint affidavits filed against judges Svet and Campos and US Attorney Mitchell." (Plaintiffs' Response to Motion And Memorandum To Strike Any And All Of Plaintiffs' First Set Of Request For Admissions To Various Employees Of The National Security Agency And To Various Employees Of Sandia National Laboratories, ¶ 11, at 10.) 8. To date, no order has been issued by this Court on the matters raised in the Motion and Memorandum, nor has any other court issued any orders concerning Plaintiffs' cause of action and various complaints. 9. By their own request, Plaintiffs sought to stay a ruling on the Defendant's Motion and Memorandum. Absent any ruling on either the Motion and Memorandum or Plaintiffs' Response, Defendant Minihan, employees of NSA, and employees of Sandia National Laboratory, were not obligated to respond to the Requests for Admissions as provided by Fed.R.Civ.P. 36.3 For Plaintiffs to now assert in their "Motion for Summary Judgment On Based On Evidence From Admissions" that because the individuals have not responded to the Requests for Admissions they are deemed admitted, flies in the face of their own prayer to this Court to stay a ruling on the Defendant's Motion to strike the Requests for Admissions until the Supreme Court takes action. ____________________ 3 Despite the fact that Defendant's employees and other individuals are not required to respond to the Requests for Admissions based upon the outstanding pleadings which have yet to be ruled on by this Court, Plaintiffs characterize that all admissions are admitted and then publish those admissions on the Internet. 3 10. Defendant requests that this Court either rule upon Defendant's Motion and Memorandum granting the request to strike the Requests for Admissions, or grant Plaintiffs' request to stay this action pending the issuance of the order sought by Plaintiffs in another forum. Should this Court deny Defendant's Motion and Memorandum, Defendant respectfully requests that the individuals to whom Requests for Admissions are appropriate in this action be given the thirty days to respond to said admissions as provided by the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure. 11. Plaintiffs requested a stay. Absent a ruling from this Court denying their request, they cannot proceed to assert that the Requests for Admissions are deemed admitted. Accordingly, Plaintiffs' "Motion For Summary Judgment On Based On Evidence From Admissions" must be denied. Respectfully submitted, JOHN J. KELLY United States Attorney [Signature] JAN ELIZABETH MITCHELL Assistant U.S. Attorney P.O. Box 607 Albuquerque, New Mexico 87103 (505) 766-3341 I HEREBY CERTIFY that a true copy of the foregoing pleading was mailed to PRO SE PLAINTIFFS, this 5th day of January, 1998. [Signature] JAN ELIZABETH MITCHELL Assistant U. S. Attorney 4 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF NEW MEXICO William H. Payne ) Arthur R. Morales ) ) Plaintiffs, ) ) v ) CIV NO 97 0266 ) SC/DJS ) Lieutenant General Kenneth A. Minihan, USAF ) Director, National Security Agency ) National Security Agency ) ) Defendant ) REPLY TO DEFENDANT'S RESPONSE TO PLAINTIFFS' MOTION FOR SUMMARY JUDGMENT BASED ON EVIDENCE FROM ADMISSIONS 1 COMES NOW plaintiffs Payne [Payne] and Morales [Morales] [Plaintiffs], pro se litigants to exercise their rights guaranteed under the Constitution, Rules of Civil Procedure, and Local Civil Rules to respond to Defendant's MOTION filed on 98 JAN-5 within the 14 days allowed by local rule 7.3(b)(4). 2 US Attorney Mitchell [Mitchell] writes, Counsel for Defendant was not served with copies of any of said Requests for Admissions until sometime after the individuals had been served.2 Mitchell WAS SERVED PLAINTIFFS' FIRST SET OF REQUEST FOR ADMISSION TO NSA DIRECTOR KENNETH MINIHAN I HEREBY CERTIFY that a copy of the foregoing request for admissions was mailed to Jan Elizabeth Mitchell, Assistant US Attorney, 525 Silver SW, ABQ, NM 87102 this Monday November 3, 1997. Michell was not served with any other admissions since Mitchell is not representing others. Plaintiffs' served Defendant Minihan properly. And Minihan failed to respond to Minihan's admissions within the time allotted by law. 3 US Attorney Mitchell writes, As grounds for the Motion and Memorandum, Defendant argued that Plaintiffs had blatantly disregarded this Court's Order pertaining to the conduct of discovery and the deadline for discovery in this Freedom of Information Act action. Judges Svet and Campos willfully violated Plaintiffs' right to Discovery. And thereby earned criminal complaint affidavits filed with judge Scalia of the Supreme Court. 4 US Attorney Mitchell writes, In Defendant's Motion and Memorandum, Counsel for Defendant also objected to Plaintiffs' sua sponte decision to modify the Court's June 11 Order to reflect the delay of the Court's October 7 Order and the establishment, without leave of this Court, of new deadlines for discovery, motions practice, and the filing of the PreTrial Order. (Motion and Memorandum 9, at 4.) Judge Svet and Campos attempt to deny Plaintiffs' right to Discovery, again, earned Svet and Campos criminal complaint affidavits. Plaintiffs exercise their right under the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure and the Constitution to conduct Discovery WITHOUT LEAVE OF COURT! 5 US Attorney Mitchell writes, By their own request, Plaintiffs sought to stay a ruling on the Defendant's Motion and Memorandum. Absent any ruling on either the Motion and Memorandum or Plaintiffs' Response, Defendant Minihan, employees of NSA, and employees of Sandia National Laboratory, were not obligated to respond to the Requests for Admissions as provided by Fed.R.Civ.P. 36.3 For Plaintiffs to now assert in their "Motion for Summary Judgment On Based On Evidence From Admissions" that because the individuals have not responded to the Requests for Admissions they are deemed admitted, flies in the face of their own prayer to this Court to stay a ruling on the Defendant's Motion to strike the Requests for Admissions until the Supreme Court takes action. Plaintiffs' have REPEATEDLY asked judge Svet and Campos to disqualify themselves from any rulings on this case because Campos and Svet do NOT obey the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure. Replace judges Svet and Campos because these judges have demonstrated, IN WRITING, they do not follow the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure. Plaintiffs' pleas are directed a replacement judge[s]. Not Svet and Campos. Therefore, Svet and Campos' failure to remove themselves does not stop the legal process. Mitchell cites NO law to support her claim that time constraints imposed under Fed.R.Civ.P. 36.3 are inapplicable as a result of Svet's and Campos' failure to remove themselves. 6 US Attorney Mitchell writes, Defendant requests that this Court either rule upon Defendant's Motion and Memorandum granting the request to strike the Requests for Admissions, or grant Plaintiffs' request to stay this action pending the issuance of the order sought by Plaintiffs in another forum. Should this Court deny Defendant's Motion and Memorandum, Defendant respectfully requests that the individuals to whom Requests for Admissions are appropriate in this action be given the thirty days to respond to said admissions as provided by the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure. REPLACEMENT JUDGES of the Court should realize the outcome of the lawsuit has attained international interest as a result of the 1 bungled NSA spy sting on Iran 2 US government agencies NSA, NIST, and the FBI's attempt to control cryptography. Mitchell's DEFENDANT'S RESPONSE TO PLAINTIFFS' MOTION FOR SUMMARY JUDGMENT BASED ON EVIDENCE FROM ADMISSIONS was posted on Internet at jya.com, click cryptome nsasuit8.htm USA/NSA Responds to Payne/Morales Motion January 16, 1998 Importance of this posting is summed-up in the Toronto Sun, Jan. 11, 1998 US, Iran Need Each Other by Eric Margolis Iran launched a surprise charm offensive last week, throwing Washington into serious confusion. In a lengthy interview on CNN, Iran's new president, Mohammad Khatami, skillfully analyzed the bitter relations between the two nations and cautiously extended an olive branch to Washington, calling for an end to their 19-year cold war. Khatami's diplomatic ju-jitsu flummoxed the Clinton administration, which was busy trying to rally international support against Tehran - and to overthrow Iran's elected government. Both capitals are split over the question of relations. In Washington, the military establishment and conservative Republicans have inflated Iran into a bogeyman to justify military budgets and keep U.S. forces in the Mideast. ... America incited Iraq to invade Iran in 1980. They did this to crush the Islamic revolution, then provided massive war aid to Saddam Hussein. Half a million Iranians died. The US got caught involved in genocide. Using high tech. This is one subject of this lawsuit. Albuquerque Journal Tuesday 1/13/98 carried the editorial. Khatami Move Is Profile in Courage Richard Reeves Syndicated Columnist LOS ANGELES - If an American leader had done what Iranian President Mohammed Khatami did last Wednesday, it would have been hailed as a profile in courage. ... Miscalculation! We armed and pampered Saddam Hussein in the hope that Iraq would destroy Iran. Now that's policy and behavior to think about. Here is something to think about: If Presidents Eisenhower and Kennedy had pursued any kind of sensible policy toward Cuba and Fidel Castro - opposed to the policy of trying to assassinate him - there never would have been a Cuban missile crisis. I think Iranians have financed and encouraged terrorism against the interests of the United States and Israel. I would not be surprised at all if something like proof emerges soon, perhaps anonymously, from the CIA and other government agencies, where many officials have built their careers on sanctioning and isolating Iran, to try to straighten the backbones of the president and people of the United States. If they succeed, America fails. What would be more effective in closing down Iranian terrorism? More hostility, sanctions and charges? Or beginning the process toward more normal relations with a country positioned and born to be great? ... Clearly genocide fits into Now that's policy and behavior to think about. The wired world is watching what this Court, hopefully minus judges Svet and Campos, will do. What is there to be? A series of possibly unfortunate events? Or does this Court order release the lawfully requested documents to help settle this American tragedy? WHEREFORE. 7 Have replacement judges of this Court DENY Mitchell's Plaintiffs requested a stay. Absent a ruling from this Court denying their request, they cannot proceed to assert that the Requests for Admissions are deemed admitted. Accordingly, Plaintiffs' "Motion For Summary Judgment On Based On Evidence From Admissions" must be denied. for reason that Mitchell's request to subvert both the Discovery processes and its time limits have no basis in law. And appears to plead to judges who do not obey the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure. 9 IMMEDIATELY ORDER Defendant to release the requested documents in the interest of national safety so that this matter can be settled. Aggrieved victims of US genocide are reading these pleadings. Respectfully submitted, _________________________ William H. Payne 13015 Calle de Sandias NE Albuquerque, NM 87111 _________________________ Arthur R. Morales 1024 Los Arboles NW Albuquerque, NM 87107 Pro se litigants CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE I HEREBY CERTIFY that a copy of the foregoing memorandum was mailed to Lieutenant General Kenneth A. Minihan, USAF, Director, National Security Agency, National Security Agency, 9800 Savage Road, Fort George G. Meade, MD 20755-6000 and hand delivered to John J. Kelly, US Attorney, 525 Silver SW, ABQ, NM 87102 this Tuesday January 20, 1997. 5 Title: Model 7200 HCLT High Capacity Lumber Tester The Metriguard Model 7200 High Capacity Lumber Tester was introduced in 1993. This machine is now certified by grading agencies in the United States, Canada and UK. Also in use in Japan and Austria. Speed capacity is unknown. We have run tests in excess of 2,000 ft/min, and have not seen any limitations or indications that it would not run faster. We expect this machine to keep up with planer developments and run in the neighborhood of 3,000 ft/min sometime within the next ten years. The machine is available with a number of options, including the recently introduced PC Data System, which adds new capability in marking options, shift reports, and internal error checking. Yet to come in Metriguard's program of continuous improvement are automatic wood temperature compensation, automatic zero tracking, scanner inputs. Please contact Metriguard Sales office for further information about how this machine can improve your lumber grading and mill profits. Return to home page From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Kay Ping Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 17:42:03 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Eternity - an alternative aproach (take 2) Message-ID: <19980118093226.22373.qmail@nym.alias.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain "Romeo, she is a female Homo Sapiens, not a full rotation of the Earth during the season when the incident solar radioation is at a higher angle" "Yes, I know that. It was just a metaphore." I got several comments about my posting, all of them about the possibility of detecting the location of radio transmitters or receivers. You just didn't get it, did you? I was using radio as a METAPHORE for the use of broadcast to provide anonymity to receivers and packets with false source addresses for the anonymity of transmitters. You can read the original posting at http://infinity.nus.sg/cypherpunks/current/0107.html ----------------- Kay Ping nop 'til you drop finger kping@nym.alias.net for key DF 6D 91 18 A6 59 41 96 - 89 01 69 B7 9D0 4 AE 53 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Ryan Lackey Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 22:37:08 +0800 To: Matt Barrie Subject: Re: (eternity) Eternity as a secure filesystem/backup medium In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980117194905.008024e0@pobox1.stanford.edu> Message-ID: <199801181433.JAA13137@the-great-machine.mit.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Since documents placed on eternity by specification last forever (assuming, > of course, that > eternity will too) and assuming that computational power and cryptanalysis > will always > get better (say for arguments sake that moore's law continues to be held) - > doesn't that > mean that it will be feasible (in time) to break all eternity documents? :) Documents by specification last only as long as someone is willing to pay to keep them up. This is not necessarily forever. Once your DBC escrow "account" runs out, the data is worthless -- someone could then choose to store it on their own, and potentially charge others for this in a recursive model, but there is no reason why a piece of data must remain in Eternity forever if no one cares enough about it to pay to have it stored. > > Of course "in time" may very well be a very long (or astronomical) time, > but dependent on the crypto > used who knows what rate "feasible" breaking of a particular algorithm > might progress at, say > in d(key length)/d(year)? Can we assume that using Moore's law this is at > least 1 bit every > 18 months for symmetric crypto? Perhaps we might see this relationship > through the RSA challenges > over time. I am designing Eternity DDS with IDEA/3DES/Blowfish level private-key crypto and an equivalent level of DH/RSA public key crypto. These will be strong (provided back door attacks, fundamental breakthroughs in cryptography, etc. are not made...a bet I'm forced to make, even though I don't like it) well into the future. How far? I think unless Quantum Cryptanalysis becomes a reality, the underlying hard problems will not be solved through anything but a fundamental change in mathematics. As Prof. Micali said, "Gauss (Karl Friedrich Gauss, the reknowned mathematician/physicist/general smart guy) worked on these problems. The test of whether a problem is sufficiently hard to be a basis for a cryptosystem is if Gauss tried to solve it and failed." or something similar. > > [If Wiener's $1m DES machine in '93 took 7 hours, in today's technology $1m > in 1998 dollars should > be able to do this in less than 100 minutes, shouldn't it?] I don't think anyone would argue that 56bit is secure enough for anything but ephermeal channel authentication. I'd make the same argument for 64bit -- if you had a purpose-built machine with an intelligent key distribution system, a well nigh unlimited budget (read: US Military), and PE's which contained either ultrahigh performance GaAs logic or massively parallel on a single chip silicon logic, you could probably brute force a 64bit algorithm. Do the math, though, for 128bit. There are traditional analyses which include the amount of silicon on the earth, the number of atoms in the universe, etc. The general consensus is that traditional techniques are not feasible for brute forcing 128bit ciphers before the heat death of the universe. > > Since documents cannot be retracted or re-encrypted you really have to > assume that someday they > will be broken. This really turns the notion of what crypto to use for > encrypting eternity documents > into an upfront question of "how long do I want this information to be > secure?". 20 years? 50 years? > 100 years? > > matt Actually, Eternity is no different than emailing a file, given a SIGINT capability at the attacker which allows all internet traffic to be monitored. If the data is still relevant and worth breaking in 50 years, they could just intercept the encrypted email, store it in a government vault for 50 years, then attack it (even more amusingly, they could simply post it to Eternity themselves, encrypted with their own key :), a true turn about). If you do not postulate that level of signals collection capability on the part of the attacker, yeah, Eternity is a bit different than email. But I think that would be an unreasonable model of the attacker. - -- Ryan Lackey rdl@mit.edu http://mit.edu/rdl/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBNMISuKwefxtEUY69AQFB1Qf9GWDn6bwhWyJcDY0Liypo21ntpH5yzORu RXwkPSI8pbmqhVZAVGXC1WbcqY0pYn7vPRFq5AKszFsjpTOOYiHwsugmVKjrxVww GRKSBqn308aAjMogNtPwEfohJrQxOED/Hy7ykV6gHV76pUFoMazQ4OdUL2iM1hLF cCMzwtpfJM5eWvyLeQcQq307998epJ9hF1e3Sn4v6ZKEPIlr0yqr5tvM7/XWxC2s 6t82EUPmOZIbn75QQqLBIFK5MlOLuvalFr0xR3u7fYltOczAMC23hx7Tjk65e9a4 6XSeEXyMp2j2GWqcE5lUZp4OnewZvSoFhEj0rDo5PEN9ce0mJEKMow== =7IBY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 23:11:23 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: (eternity) Eternity as a secure filesystem/backup medium (fwd) Message-ID: <199801181540.JAA17053@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Subject: Re: (eternity) Eternity as a secure filesystem/backup medium > Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 09:33:30 EST > From: Ryan Lackey > Documents by specification last only as long as someone is willing to pay > to keep them up. This is not necessarily forever. Admiral Hopper used to give a talk about the worth of data and she had a very nice chart that would demonstrate the worth of data over time. Initialy it is worth a lot because it is hard to reproduce, obtain, or distribute. As time goes on it becomes less and less important. In her particular context it was related to the economic decision of when to move data offline in large database applications. > Once your DBC escrow > "account" runs out, the data is worthless That's a jump of logic. The data may infact be quite popular even though you don't offer it anymore (might even do this in order to increase its worth, say some sort of insider trader newsletter). It's probably not in the best interest of the data haven model to speculate on exactly why a particular source decides to quit sourcing. > remain in Eternity forever if no one cares enough about it to pay to > have it stored. Then again, if it was really important I might intentionaly want to attack the ability to provide long-term income. A better model might be to charge for the access and let the actual submission be no charge. A portion of the retrieval charge could then be piped back to the source. Consider the case of say nuclear or biological information for a weapon. That sort of data would be accessed only infrequently (unless you're giving something this expensive to obtain and verify away - a d-h operator error, no.) but should be quite expensive to retrieve. > If the data is still relevant and worth breaking in 50 years, they could > just intercept the encrypted email, store it in a government vault for > 50 years, More realisticaly they would have somebody just add it to a batch job and let the spare cycles of the machines crank away at it. Or perhaps set up a key challenge and get people all over the world to work on it in their spare cycles. Who knows, perhaps the source of the data woudl be intriqued enough to provide spare cycles unknowingly. > If you do not postulate that level of signals collection capability on the It's not just their sig-int capability but their complete processing resource capability that must be considered as well as their psychological motivation. Granted, all of these are extremely difficult to measure let alone verify. Perhaps a little paranoia might be a good thing. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 00:04:33 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Signed document - a thought... Message-ID: <199801181631.KAA17197@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Hi, I was pondering the security issues regarding signed documents and key security. It occured to me that in all the discussion it is assumed that the document is transmitted after the key is transmitted. It seems to be that a higher level of security could be obtained by submitting the signed document first and then submit the signing key. This way when the document goes out Mallet has no idea what key to replace and any fudging of the document will destroy the sign. Then when the key goes out if it is replaced the document won't pass testing either since the server already has a unmod'ed copy. In short, instead of having each author have a signing key, have each document have a signature key and always submit the signed document prior to the signing key. After all it's the document and not the author (who we assume is already using an anonymous submission mechanism) we wish to verify from the end users perspective. The mechanims provides a means for the data haven server to verify the authenticity of the document and this allows them to pass that trust on to the end user in the same sort of way. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: lord_buttmonkey@juno.com (Matthew L Bennett) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 00:17:48 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: Spam In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <19980118.110654.3782.7.Lord_Buttmonkey@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >>Another approach to reducing spam is of course to keep contacting >>ISPs to kill off bad users, and to get ISPs to refuse spamhauses >>as customers. >I love Eudora for a very simple reason: the simplicity >of the filters offered in even the free version. On the note of filters: Why are Netscape Communicator's filters nonworking? I couldn't get them to work, *ever*. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 00:38:22 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Signed document - a thought... (fwd) Message-ID: <199801181708.LAA17343@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > From: Jim Choate > Subject: Signed document - a thought... > Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 10:31:36 -0600 (CST) > document have a signature key and always submit the signed document prior > to the signing key. After all it's the document and not the author (who we > assume is already using an anonymous submission mechanism) we wish to verify > from the end users perspective. One other assumption that I left out after I sent it was that the data haven and the key server are not the same machine. Sorry, I hope it makes a tad more sense with that proviso included. Sorry for sending an incomplete suggestion. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Ryan Lackey Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 00:29:25 +0800 To: Kay Ping Subject: Re: Eternity - an alternative approach Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain (Kay Ping) writes: > It occured to me that the equivalent on the net would be to receive > packets with invalid source addresses. They are just there, coming dowm > the phone line to your modem. It takes significant resources and snooping > on a massive scale to locate where they are coming from.. All this is > assuming you can find some way to send a request with your address to the > server. I've looked at this idea for a while. It's great right now once you get away from the first couple of subnets, though. However, I've recently become aware of "IDIP", or "Intruder Detection and Isolation Protocol" through potentially questionable sources (my source is mostly NDA-wary). He assumes it will be implemented by having each router cache IP address, received interface tuples. Then, after the fact, one could go back and track someone router by router. The technical solution to this is to flood a router with forged packets while using it to transfer your own data, overflowing the cache. This presents the problem of being tracked by leaving a cloud of flooded routers in your wake. But it's possible. I get the impression the system is far from deployment, but that it is being worked on is a sign that potentially someone sees the rise in forged source address attacks and wants to curtail it. -- Ryan Lackey rdl@mit.edu http://mit.edu/rdl/ From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Steve Schear Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 03:49:21 +0800 To: Jim Choate Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 7:23 PM -0600 1/17/98, Jim Choate wrote: >Forwarded message: > >> Subject: Re: how to release code if the programmer is a target for (fwd) >> From: Ryan Lackey >> Date: 17 Jan 1998 19:07:10 -0500 > >> Eternity delivers data. It's up to the user to verify that the data is >> what they want > >> The original question was how to verify the eternity server source code. > >How are these fundamently different? Assume for a moment that as a user of >an eternity server the source is the data I want. (I didn't see anyone comment on my posting under "Re: remailer resistancs to attack", so I thought I'd repost under this thread. My apologies for any inconvience.) Came across this paper and thought it might contribute to improving remailer reliability, "How to Maintain Authenticated Communication in the Presence of Break-ins," http://theory.lcs.mit.edu/~tcryptol/OLD/old-02.html --Steve From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Kent Crispin Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 04:09:31 +0800 To: Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer Message-ID: <19980118120234.40255@songbird.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Sun, Jan 18, 1998 at 12:45:02PM -0500, Ryan Lackey wrote: [...] > > Data disappears from Eternity once no one cares enough about it to pay to > have it stored. That could mean someone doesn't pay in advance for the data, > or no one is willing to invest disk space in the hope that it will in > the future be downloaded. > > Providing eternity service costs money. Anything which lets users circumvent > this opens up the potential for denial of service through consumption of > resources attacks. Even if billing is fundamental, you still have the > potential for the NSA to spend $100m to buy all the eternity space available > at any point. This is why you also need market mechanisms -- if the NSA > is willing to pay a premium for eternity service just to keep it out of > the hands of the populace, then running eternity servers is a great > investment, so capacity will increase until the NSA can no longer afford > to buy all of it. > > A difficult part of designing a working Eternity service is to keep people > from "stealing service", in terms of consumption of resources, during > set up, indexing, etc. Basically, you need to make sure that to the > greatest extent possible, anything which is a potentially scarce resource > is sold, not given away. There are alternative ways of paying for the service that do not in any way depend on ecash, and after thinking about it a bit, they seem more robust, as well. The basic idea is as follows: The fundamental eternity service is free to readers, and is financed entirely by writers. The writers supply the disk space, the network bandwidth, and possibly pay for the software to support all this. In a little more detail: you have say 1 megabyte of data that you would like to be stored in the Eternity Service. The overhead of storage in eternity is a factor of two, and you would like 10 times redundancy. So you contact the Eternity Service Software provider, and get the software. You then configure the software to supply 20 megabytes of your disk space to the system. This allows you to supply 1 meg of your own data. The 20 megs will of course not store *your* data -- it will store other eternity data. The service takes your data and spreads it across 10 other sites, whose locations are unknown and unknowable to you. In return, you are storing eternity data for other users. If your disk space becomes unavailable your file disappears from the service. (Of course, someone else could pick it up and store it, if it was valuable information.) This is a self-financing model. Every writer to the eternity service pays for their own bandwidth and disk space. The eternity service provider is financed by maintaining the software that all the writers use -- client/server software will have to run on many different platforms, some protocols may be better than others, and it might be worth buying your eternity software from a high-reputation ("trustworthy") provider. Note that this doesn't mean that data suppliers can't be paid for providing data -- but that is a completely separable problem that can have many different solutions. I believe this approach does solve the financing part. But it does make the rest a *very* complicated problem -- you have a dynamic, self-configuring network of data sources and sinks, with all the configuration data encrypted along with the data. Ideally, of course, the data would be migrating constantly. Retrieval would probably be very slow -- basically email speeds, or worse. In fact, perhaps the data would be retrieved by having the eternity service use the remailer network to send it... -- Kent Crispin "No reason to get excited", kent@songbird.com the thief he kindly spoke... PGP fingerprint: B1 8B 72 ED 55 21 5E 44 61 F4 58 0F 72 10 65 55 http://songbird.com/kent/pgp_key.html From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Ryan Lackey Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 01:48:30 +0800 To: Jim Choate Subject: Re: (eternity) Eternity as a secure filesystem/backup medium (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain (Jim Choate) writes: > Ryan Lackey writes: > > Once your DBC escrow > > "account" runs out, the data is worthless > > That's a jump of logic. The data may infact be quite popular even though you > don't offer it anymore (might even do this in order to increase its worth, > say some sort of insider trader newsletter). It's probably not in the best > interest of the data haven model to speculate on exactly why a particular > source decides to quit sourcing. True. But in an Eternity model without copyright, someone could be one of the first customers to download the data, then upload it again under a different name. The only thing the original uploader would have as an advantage would be indexing information, potentially -- it's easier for me to download ms word by going to the eternity equivalent of http://www.microsoft.com/ than to go to http://www3.pop3-167.adhoc.warez.location.ai/edf3/filez1.zip. There's no real way to put the genie back into the bottle unless you can send people with guns to beat people up who store your data as a third party. Data disappears from Eternity once no one cares enough about it to pay to have it stored. That could mean someone doesn't pay in advance for the data, or no one is willing to invest disk space in the hope that it will in the future be downloaded. Providing eternity service costs money. Anything which lets users circumvent this opens up the potential for denial of service through consumption of resources attacks. Even if billing is fundamental, you still have the potential for the NSA to spend $100m to buy all the eternity space available at any point. This is why you also need market mechanisms -- if the NSA is willing to pay a premium for eternity service just to keep it out of the hands of the populace, then running eternity servers is a great investment, so capacity will increase until the NSA can no longer afford to buy all of it. A difficult part of designing a working Eternity service is to keep people from "stealing service", in terms of consumption of resources, during set up, indexing, etc. Basically, you need to make sure that to the greatest extent possible, anything which is a potentially scarce resource is sold, not given away. > > > remain in Eternity forever if no one cares enough about it to pay to > > have it stored. > > Then again, if it was really important I might intentionaly want to attack > the ability to provide long-term income. A better model might be to charge > for the access and let the actual submission be no charge. A portion of the > retrieval charge could then be piped back to the source. Consider the case > of say nuclear or biological information for a weapon. That sort of data > would be accessed only infrequently (unless you're giving something this > expensive to obtain and verify away - a d-h operator error, no.) but should > be quite expensive to retrieve. You then are vulnerable to someone spamming the system, unless you give the server operator some way of knowing if this encrypted data is likely to be valuable. I think both payment models should coexist. But there's no reason that the server operators are the only people able to speculate -- it could be just another random user. You can have arbitrarily complex payment models, since the enforcement agents can exist (must exist?) as eternity objects in their own right. > > > If the data is still relevant and worth breaking in 50 years, they could > > just intercept the encrypted email, store it in a government vault for > > 50 years, > > More realisticaly they would have somebody just add it to a batch job and > let the spare cycles of the machines crank away at it. Or perhaps set up a > key challenge and get people all over the world to work on it in their spare > cycles. Who knows, perhaps the source of the data woudl be intriqued enough > to provide spare cycles unknowingly. No, the most feasible attacks for a resourced attacker are custom ASICs optimized for key testing, as were recently described. Distributed workstation cracking is a parlor trick if you have a billion dollar budget for key cracking. The NSA has general purpose HPC resources for purposes like signal processing, AI, etc., not for brute forcing people's keys routinely (although perhaps for a weak and nonstandard cipher, it would make sense to use general purpose machines). Even a corporation would be better off using FPGAs or ASICs for key cracking once you get past 56 bits. > > > If you do not postulate that level of signals collection capability on the > > It's not just their sig-int capability but their complete processing > resource capability that must be considered as well as their psychological > motivation. Granted, all of these are extremely difficult to measure let > alone verify. Perhaps a little paranoia might be a good thing. I assume the attacker is evil and rational. I also assume that the entire legal system has been subverted, and that extralegal operations of any size too small to make the new york times front page are possible. And, any entity which deals with the government (just about any) can be subverted. Thinking that the major internet gateways between providers are bugged by the NSA isn't really too unreasonable if you accept those assumptions. > > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > | | > | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | > | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | > | | > | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | > | | > | _____ The Armadillo Group | > | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | > | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | > | .', |||| `/( e\ | > | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | > | ravage@ssz.com | > | 512-451-7087 | > |____________________________________________________________________| -- Ryan Lackey rdl@mit.edu http://mit.edu/rdl/ From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Adam Back Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 22:40:04 +0800 To: wabe@smart.net Subject: Re: uh, In-Reply-To: <004601bd23fa$76d1d0a0$a78588d1@justice> Message-ID: <199801181249.MAA00208@server.eternity.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Wabe writes: > What is that weird lawsuit all about where > some director of the NSA is getting sued for > something? Does anyone know? Bill Payne used to work for one of the US national labs, he did some work funded by NSA at that lab. He considered that the NSA were making incompetent cryptographic decisions endangering national security. He's suing them over their attempts to silence his criticisms by working behind the scenes to deprive him of research funding. Bill will have to provide a better summary himself, as the above is from memory, and I wasn't paying that much attention, and the above could be garbage. The practice of suing the director of NSA "DIRNSA" in such suits involving disputes with NSA is common practice... Dan Bernstein's case pursued by EFF, John Gilmore etc, and Peter Junger's case (both arguing that the ITAR/EARs are unconstitutional) involved suing the NSA, DIRNSA and a list of other misc. government officials. Adam btw. your netscape set up is broken... it includes an html version of your post below the ascii version. There is a setting somewhere were you have a choice to send ascii, or html or both. You clearly have this set to both. > ------=_NextPart_000_0043_01BD23B7.67DD8500 > Content-Type: text/html; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > > > > http-equiv=3DContent-Type> > [...] From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: John Young Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 01:51:30 +0800 To: Ryan Lackey Subject: Re: Eternity - an alternative approach Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980118175025.006deea8@pop.pipeline.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Ryan Lackey wrote: >However, I've recently become aware of "IDIP", or "Intruder Detection >and Isolation Protocol" through potentially questionable sources (my >source is mostly NDA-wary). Ryan, Any chance you could get more info on this and pass it along? Or maybe your source could spec it through a remailer if you can persuade that the cutout is truly inviolable. Thanks, John From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Bill Stewart Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 06:02:30 +0800 To: "wabe" Subject: Re: e-mail muddling. In-Reply-To: <008801bd22cf$131ec440$ab8588d1@justice> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980118125130.00836aa0@popd.ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 02:35 PM 1/16/98 -0800, wabe wrote: > -- >Also wouldn't it be easier to de-muddle an e-mail >message than a brute force attack? I mean, >you KNOW what muddled it. And you know >the general way it got muddled. It's not pgp, >it's just some line breaks a bit too early for their >time... Not particularly. If the muddler wraps all lines at N characters, then you can guess that all lines N characters long can probably be put back together, which isn't hard, but if it also loses any white space (e.g. trailing spaces) then you've got exponentially many possibilities. It may be worth trying to fix a couple of the easy ones, though. Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 02:36:50 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: (eternity) Eternity as a secure filesystem/backup medium (fwd) Message-ID: <199801181904.NAA17705@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Subject: Re: (eternity) Eternity as a secure filesystem/backup medium (fwd) > From: Ryan Lackey > Date: 18 Jan 1998 12:45:02 -0500 > True. But in an Eternity model without copyright, someone could be one of > the first customers to download the data, then upload it again under a > different name. So in your model there isn't any form of check on the data for redundency? > The only thing the original uploader would have as > an advantage would be indexing information, potentially -- it's easier > for me to download ms word by going to the eternity equivalent of > http://www.microsoft.com/ than to go to > http://www3.pop3-167.adhoc.warez.location.ai/edf3/filez1.zip. Not if it's: http://ww.microsoft.com/software/commercial/wordprocessing/msword/x.y/ \ msword.zip This is a specious point. The fact is that from the users perspective the index would automagicaly provide the actual resting place for the server to find it, even if it were on a different server. The whole point is to make the software do the druggery. The length of the pathname or URL is irrelevant at that point. > There's no real way to put the genie back into the bottle unless you can > send people with guns to beat people up who store your data as a third party. The point being that if we take the average user of a data haven model they don't have the resources (money, technical skill, bandwidth, etc.) to set up a data haven of their own. Further, the storing of the data by other parties isn't the issue, it isn't the data havens data. This is one of the primary reasons that really important data should be expensive to get initialy. It goes back to what I was saying in a previous post about Grace Hoppers worth-v-time model. > Data disappears from Eternity once no one cares enough about it to pay to > have it stored. What this over-looks is the potential for that data to become relevant to some currently unknown situation in the future. While I agree that the data should not necessarily be in a fast medium storage after a certain time period it should not simply be thrown away. If nothing else at some point it will have historical (inexpensive, it's still money) relevance. > Providing eternity service costs money. Life costs money, that is one of the reasons that you don't want to throw stuff away that may bring in income down the road. > Anything which lets users circumvent > this opens up the potential for denial of service through consumption of > resources attacks. There simply isn't a way around that except to out bandwidth the attacker. > Even if billing is fundamental, you still have the > potential for the NSA to spend $100m to buy all the eternity space available > at any point. > This is why you also need market mechanisms > -- if the NSA > is willing to pay a premium for eternity service just to keep it out of > the hands of the populace, then running eternity servers is a great > investment, so capacity will increase until the NSA can no longer afford > to buy all of it. I like it when you write my own rebuttal for me...:) The bottem line is that the market mechanism *is* the willingness of some party to buy that space. Nothing more, nothing less. Further, Mallet ain't stupid or he'd have starved a long time ago. > A difficult part of designing a working Eternity service is to keep people > from "stealing service", in terms of consumption of resources, during > set up, indexing, etc. Basically, you need to make sure that to the > greatest extent possible, anything which is a potentially scarce resource > is sold, not given away. The point is that *nothing* is given away for free, though you might want to let people *give* you resources for free. Which is the point I was making. > You then are vulnerable to someone spamming the system, unless you give > the server operator some way of knowing if this encrypted data is likely > to be valuable. The point is that the system can *always* be spammed. You *don't* charge the source of data a million dollars to put it on your server. It's gotta be source cheap or else it isn't worth their time to bother with it. If you *really* want to promote such servers what you need is a model that allows submitters free access *and* a share in the subscribers fees. Then everyone wins. If the source has something they know is worth god awful sums of money they aren't going to submit it to the data haven anyway, they'll set their own haven up and reap the benefits directly. There is an economic issue here that is at parity with the technical issues. > You can have arbitrarily complex payment models, since the enforcement > agents can exist (must exist?) as eternity objects in their own right. Not really, at some point the complexity works against itself - you should study a little chaos theory. The final point is to make the system (ie the logical linking of black box operations that themselves may be quite technical or complex) dirt simple. > No, the most feasible attacks for a resourced attacker are custom ASICs > optimized for key testing, as were recently described. Distributed > workstation cracking is a parlor trick if you have a billion dollar budget > for key cracking. Tell that to the NSA and their Cray-acres. The point is that even if you have customer ASIC's or FPGA's or whatever these are still computers and you can't seriously be suggesting that the resources to create customer hardware for specific goals is any less complicated or more inexpensive than using general purpose hardware when looked at from a global scale. If that model were so generaly applicable then we should move all our processing jobs to ASIC's and reap the benefits. There is also the issue that even if you use customer chips to develop customer key cracking hardware (which I agree is being done as we speak) there is still the inescapable fact that you will need lots(!) of them. So the result is that whether they are custom or general purpose devices the sheer quantity becomes a hinderance. > The NSA has general purpose HPC resources for purposes like signal processing, > AI, etc., not for brute forcing people's keys routinely (although perhaps for > a weak and nonstandard cipher, it would make sense to use general purpose > machines). Even a corporation would be better off using FPGAs or ASICs for > key cracking once you get past 56 bits. That would depend on the economics of startup and what kind of footprint that would leave in the industry. This is one of the reasons that the NSA builds their own chips. > I assume the attacker is evil and rational. My, my. Moral stipulations are probably no more relevant than psychological classifications. The issue is one of emotion. Mallet wants it because it benefits Mallet and hinders Mallets enemies. This is an emotional reason and most definitely outside the bounds of simple rational/irrational action classification. When I was speaking of psychology earlier in my submissions I was not the least bit implying any comment on rationality, goodness, or other relative classifications. I was refering to greed, pride, honor, self-respect, etc. as motivations. The interactions of those in individuals and organizations doesn't depend on classifications. > I also assume that the > entire legal system has been subverted, and that extralegal operations of > any size too small to make the new york times front page are possible. And, > any entity which deals with the government (just about any) can be subverted. Any government can be subverted as well, happens on a regular basis. The legal system may not need to be subverted for the simple reason that more than one legal system may be involved. The front page example you are so fond of is a instance that would take, my guess, probably in the neighborhood of $10k to have a full page for a single day. To make the participants investment in that sum worth it, what is their pay off in your system? Just having their name in the paper probably isn't worth it. The wide public advertisment, and hence notoriety is probably not a big plus either. Especialy considering that it would guarantee the participant a nice bug-for-life experience. > Thinking that the major internet gateways between providers are bugged by > the NSA isn't really too unreasonable if you accept those assumptions. Whether the providers themselves are bugged are not is really irrelevant, its the backbone infrastructure providers who are providing the access points. You tap the satellite transfer point, for example, not the 300 organizations sending data down it. You tap the telephone switch in each neighborhood, not the individual lines on their subscriber end trunks. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Adam Back Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 22:40:22 +0800 To: matt.barrie@stanford.edu Subject: Re: (eternity) Eternity as a secure filesystem/backup medium In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980117194905.008024e0@pobox1.stanford.edu> Message-ID: <199801181320.NAA00296@server.eternity.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain [horrible line wraps btw. 100 chars to the line! I reformatted.] Matt Barrie writes: > Since documents cannot be retracted or re-encrypted you really have > to assume that someday they will be broken. This really turns the > notion of what crypto to use for encrypting eternity documents into > an upfront question of "how long do I want this information to be > secure?". 20 years? 50 years? 100 years? There are 3 distinct threats. 1. communications crypto used by the author in submitting the document is broken 2. the eternity architecture contains encrypted documents to frustrate attempts to locate documents, and to hide the contents of documents from individual servers 3. communications crypto used to request and deliver documents is broken thus revealing the readers identity For threat 1. the attacker needs archives of old communications which could potentially be eternity submissions. (I say potentially because they could be steganographically encoded). It is probably reasonable to assume that the NSA has a full historic archive of USENET. Also it is probably reasonable to assume they have a historic archive of all inter remailer traffic. For threat 2. it seems feasible to upgrade this security over time, in that documents could be super encrypted with newer ciphers when vulnerabilities are found in older ciphers. No protection for historic access requests, but at least we can adapt to protect new requests. For threat 3. again newer ciphers can be used as attacks are found. So it is useful to design upgrade paths for ciphers into the protocols where possible. Other approaches we could take are to use very conservative cipher key sizes and protocols combining multiple ciphers in ways which gives us the security of the best of the ciphers. For example: R = random, C = 5DES( R ) || blowfish-484( M xor R ) Where 5DES is say E-D-E-D-E with 5 independent DES keys. Constructs to combine in strong ways hash functions, macs, symmetric and asymmetric ciphers would be useful. Is there much research in this area? Adam From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Young iVillian" Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 03:23:24 +0800 To: Subject: to Anonymous Message-ID: <199801181905.LAA04320@toad.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Right on, man. E-Mail me... I'd like to have a conversation w/ you. Technological takeover... we bring it on ourselves. We have no one to blame. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Bill Stewart Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 07:00:58 +0800 To: Adam Back Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980118144309.00868e80@popd.ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain (Wasenaar discussion...) >> You might want to highlight the following section ... not sure of the >> entire context ... but this isn't something that I'd seen before. It looks >> like control of any software that can transmit data. >> >> c.3. ``Software'' which provides the capability of recovering >> ``source code'' of telecommunications ``software'' controlled by >> 5A001, 5B001, or 5C001; >Export ban on decompilers? Disassemblers? Debuggers? >These tools are general purpose, so this seems particularly weird. It's only weird if you assume the authors have a clue... Depending on the overall context, telco software companies and their customers may find this section interesting as well. If they were thinking at all when they wrote this, they were probable concerned about products that let people ship exportable binaries and patchtools that let users recover the source code to undo the limitations. But as you say, general purpose tools work fine. The special purpose tools I've seen have been the ones that patch the binaries of Netscape 40-bit versions to reenable 128-bit capability, and they just use binary. Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 04:26:46 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: (eternity) Eternity as a secure filesystem/backup medium (fwd) Message-ID: <199801182053.OAA18106@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 12:02:34 -0800 > From: Kent Crispin > Subject: Re: (eternity) Eternity as a secure filesystem/backup medium (fwd) > There are alternative ways of paying for the service that do not in > any way depend on ecash, and after thinking about it a bit, they seem > more robust, as well. > > The basic idea is as follows: The fundamental eternity service is > free to readers, and is financed entirely by writers. The writers > supply the disk space, the network bandwidth, and possibly pay for > the software to support all this. It is clear that there are two diametricaly opposed models of payment mechanisms and who those costs should fall on; producers or consumers. I personaly have no faith in systems where the producers bear the burden of the costs since they have no clear mechanism to obtain the funds to finance the enterprise in the first place. Imagine for a moment that a couple of persons come into possession of a set of documents which would cause considerable political embarassment and legal difficulties for a head of the local government. Why should these two individuals pay to have their data dissiminated to anyone who wants it? It certainly isn't going to improve their social, political, or professional standing since the server will anonymize the data. They then have two options, release it themselves and hope for the best (and hence reap the benefit of any economic benefits that might acrue) or do nothing with it. How about information to build man portable atomic bombs? It doesn't make sense to take all those chances and the data haven operators to take the chances when they will get at most the monetary input from a *single* party. It is clear that these resources are clearly inferior to many parties paying to get the data. I guess the question boils down to why the individual operator in running the server in the first place. I assume a priori that the goal of both the submitter and the operator is to make a reliable income from the users of the service since there are clearly many more consumers of information than producers of it. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Uhh...this is Joe [Randall Farmer]" Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 05:10:10 +0800 To: Ryan Lackey Subject: Re: (eternity) Eternity as a secure filesystem/backup medium In-Reply-To: <199801181433.JAA13137@the-great-machine.mit.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain ... > (provided back door attacks, fundamental breakthroughs in cryptography, etc. > are not made...a bet I'm forced to make, even though I don't like it) You can tilt the odds in your favor some at the cost of speed; use more rounds for the block ciphers and base your public-key security on two hard problems, not one (i.e., encrypt randomness with one public-key cryptosystem and encrypt the key XORed with this randomness with an algorithm based on an unrelated hard problem). That means much more work, but the insurance against improvements in math/crypto is worth it, I'd think. ... > Actually, Eternity is no different than emailing a file, given a SIGINT > capability at the attacker which allows all internet traffic to be monitored. > If the data is still relevant and worth breaking in 50 years, they could > just intercept the encrypted email, store it in a government vault for > 50 years, then attack it... It *is* a little different, actually; confidential messages are rarely relevant in 50 years (and even when they are, NSA doesn't know which messages are relevant and which aren't), whereas authors must remain anonymous until they're sufficiently dead that they can't be hurt (and NSA *does* have more of an idea of which documents need to be looked into, since they know their contents). ... > > - -- > Ryan Lackey > rdl@mit.edu > http://mit.edu/rdl/ --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Randall Farmer rfarmer@hiwaay.net http://hiwaay.net/~rfarmer From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jonathan Wienke Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 11:10:04 +0800 To: Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980118151314.006b7d88@popd.netcruiser> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 At 01:04 PM 1/18/98 -0600, Jim Choate wrote: >The point is that the system can *always* be spammed. You *don't* charge the >source of data a million dollars to put it on your server. It's gotta be >source cheap or else it isn't worth their time to bother with it. If you >*really* want to promote such servers what you need is a model that allows >submitters free access *and* a share in the subscribers fees. Then everyone >wins. > >If the source has something they know is worth god awful sums of money they >aren't going to submit it to the data haven anyway, they'll set their own >haven up and reap the benefits directly. There is an economic issue here >that is at parity with the technical issues. Here is a way for an individual to make money using the eternity service: 1: Users are charged $/MB/month to store data in the service. 2: Users are charged $/MB for downloading data from the service. 3: The source of a data item receives a portion of the download fees collected for that item as an anonymous payment, or else the money could be applied toward keeping the data on the service (the option of choice for the really paranoid among us). At 12:02 PM 1/18/98 -0800, Kent Crispin wrote: >In a little more detail: you have say 1 megabyte of data that you >would like to be stored in the Eternity Service. The overhead of >storage in eternity is a factor of two, and you would like 10 times >redundancy. So you contact the Eternity Service Software provider, and >get the software. You then configure the software to supply 20 >megabytes of your disk space to the system. This allows you to >supply 1 meg of your own data. > >The 20 megs will of course not store *your* data -- it will store >other eternity data. The service takes your data and spreads it >across 10 other sites, whose locations are unknown and unknowable to >you. In return, you are storing eternity data for other users. If >your disk space becomes unavailable your file disappears from the >service. (Of course, someone else could pick it up and store it, if >it was valuable information.) The location of the data should be determined by some sort of random process, and it should move frequently. Disallowing one to store one's own data reduces the number possible locations for the data, and also requires a mechanism for matching the source of the data to the owner of each node- both of which are Really Bad Karma. >This is a self-financing model. Every writer to the eternity service >pays for their own bandwidth and disk space. The eternity service >provider is financed by maintaining the software that all the writers >use -- client/server software will have to run on many different >platforms, some protocols may be better than others, and it might be >worth buying your eternity software from a high-reputation >("trustworthy") provider. One could also construct a fee schedule where a higher rate would buy a higher redundancy level for your data. >Note that this doesn't mean that data suppliers can't be paid for >providing data -- but that is a completely separable problem that can >have many different solutions. > >I believe this approach does solve the financing part. But it does >make the rest a *very* complicated problem -- you have a dynamic, >self-configuring network of data sources and sinks, with all the >configuration data encrypted along with the data. Ideally, of course, >the data would be migrating constantly. > >Retrieval would probably be very slow -- basically email speeds, or >worse. In fact, perhaps the data would be retrieved by having the >eternity service use the remailer network to send it... The eternity service should be its own remailer network--one that transfers data as well as e-mail. The nodes should have constant encrypted cover traffic between them. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Business Security 5.5 iQA/AwUBNMKMicJF0kXqpw3MEQJ/sACfQpkRqLflEPdmr4NpsP/8w7WEmvIAnjvv LSkxnt7fdHwkCk37vMWf/q1A =P6/D -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Jonathan Wienke PGP Key Fingerprints: 7484 2FB7 7588 ACD1 3A8F 778A 7407 2928 3312 6597 8258 9A9E D9FA 4878 C245 D245 EAA7 0DCC "If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains set lightly upon you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." -- Samuel Adams "Stupidity is the one arena of of human achievement where most people fulfill their potential." -- Jonathan Wienke Never sign a contract that contains the phrase "first-born child." When the government fears the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny. Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't. RSA export-o-matic: print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 05:26:22 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com Subject: Re: how to release code if the programmer is a target for (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain [Choate said he wouldn't "address" my message if I didn't post it to the list, so...] > > Eternity delivers data. It's up to the user to verify that the data is > > what they want > > > The original question was how to verify the eternity server source code. > > Assume for a moment that as a user of an eternity server the source is the > data I want. Ok... [...] > > * A random user who has the public keys of at least (thresh) number of the > > cypherpunks, optionally the key of the author of the document/product before > > the system becomes questionable, perhaps by looking in the NY Times > > for 1 Jan 1999 which has a full page ad taken out by Cypherpunks Anonymous > > with the PGP public keys for the 100 leading cypherpunks. > > Pretty expensive and rather unrealistic I suspect. The NYT ad? I think that was at least partly a joke (besides, if some cypherpunks did take out an ad, I'd predict propaganda in 2/3 of the page and fine-print PGP-key fingerprints in the rest :). > Where does this random user come from? Why does it matter? As long as she's competent enough to choose good verifiers and verify that those verifiers verified the code in question, it all works out in the end. > What is '(thresh)'? What good would an anonymous key signature provide? Thresh is the number of signatures from trusted people/keys required to trust a section of code, a value set by the user. An anonymous sig would be very little good but I think he was talking about including the author's sig if he's not anonymous. > [...] How do we know that some number of these cypherpunks aren't turned? We don't. There is no way to operate without *some* trust; this reduces it from the code being shown to be secure if the author is not spookized AND The author is capable to check his/her code AND the key he signed it with is good to the code being good if those conditions are true for one (or a few) of the many cypherpunks on the user's trusted list who signed the code. > Are you proposing that the user test all 100 of the signatures? Well, I think he's proposing to have a script check them and the user personally make sure the script is doing what it should. > Which realistica[l]ly is the only way to verify any given one of them. Not > very many people will go to that extreme simply for grins and giggles. > > > * The piece of code to be verified is bloody long, that is, longer than > > any one cypherpunk can afford to verify alone (shooting practice, > > installing the minefields and poison gas sprinkler system, etc. take > > lots of time) Not to mention churning out that propaganda for the NYT ad, becoming tolerant to pepper spray, preparing various fake identities for use, proving Blowfish secure and then breaking it, constructing a doomsday weapon using only a straightedge and compass, etc. > > The standard is programs over ~10k lines is not comprehensible by a single > individual on a line by line basis. Might be, but this code has to be more than just understood -- it must be painstakingly checked for subtle flaws and bugs. Welcome to the world of adversarial quality control. > > > * The user can tell by visual inspection that a small compilation > > system does what they want it to do, and can understand basic logic > > enough to tell what signatures imply. > > 'small compilation system' of what? What who wants it to do? The author? > Mallet? The end user? The C/Java/whatever compiler, I suppose, and also the signature checker, and she's checking that they carry out their stated purposes. ... > > 2) The user wants to run the code, because it's Just That Cool. > > We're talking here about users who want to get data that is illegal or > otherwise incriminating or dangerous to one group or another. In particular > let's consider the situation of a Lebanese freedom fighter in Isreal or > perhaps a 'Free Burma' revolutionary in China. I think the issue was one of users who want to get eternity server source they can trust -- not necessarily getting it *from* Eternity. > > > 3) No one can verify the entire code. So, Cypherpunks begin signing > > small sections of the code with their own previously-established key. > > Their keys are established as their reputation is established on > > the list, or perhaps by personally meeting these people, in the > > traditional PGP web of trust scheme. There is no central Cypherpunks > > Registry, just a decentralized mesh. > > Which doesn't effect the ability of Mallet to resign that code at the users > end in order to break the users local security. Unless you're exposing a new weakness in the trust model PGP uses, Mallet can't do that, providing the user has done good key authentication and hasn't listed one of Mallet's goons as a trusted code-verifier. > > > 4) The user executes the compilation script. > > [material describing script verification deleted] > > Mallet can re-write said script [...] Yup, that's why the user has to check it by hand. Lots easier to check a script and a compiler for doing their functions than to check an eternity server for subtle bugs. > > > I fail to see how the specifics of Eternity are relevant -- it's > > just basically a PGP web of trust issue. The transport is irrelevant -- > > it's untrusted code until it's been verified by people the user > > trusts. > > The end user may not have people available to trust is the point. Well, if you can't verify it yourself and you can't trust other people to verify it, my advice is to give up; you cannot be sure of *any* public keys in that case, so any message you encrypt might be encrypted to one of Mallet's keys; any sig you check might be signed by one of Mallet's keys. > The reason the transport mechanism is relevant is that it is much easier to > spoof a verification script if the user is not going to be surprised with 24 > hour turn around on requests, whereas a responce time measured in minutes > lessens the window of opportunity to Mallet significantly. If Mallet is a NSA spook who's half as good as my hacker buddy Phat Atta and knew about the script ahead of time, the user can't trust the script without verifying it herself, whether it takes milliseconds or millenia to get the response. > > It may come as a surprise to you and others but not everyone in the world > can pick up a phone and call a 100 people all over the world and not raise > some suspicion. Ah, but either I am more mistaken than usual or you only need a few of the signers to be trusted, not all of them. > > > Implementing a keyserver in Eternity has the same issues > > While it is perfectly permissible to design Eternity or any data haven with > inherent key servers, I believe it is a bad idea from a design perspective > because it makes the code even larger, decreases the potential for monetary > motives for indipendant key servers to appear, and if the server is > compromised then the key server is also. Not sure, but I think he's talking about putting up a key server in Eternity (i.e., the rolling hills where data can roam without fear, as opposed to putting it in the Eternity). > It is more expensive if Mallet can be forced to deal with two [independent] > operators then a single monolithic operator. > > [rest deleted] --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Randall Farmer rfarmer@hiwaay.net http://hiwaay.net/~rfarmer From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Anonymous Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 04:28:46 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Other c'punk lists? Message-ID: <964b42d2ad6119da33ff9f4184394baf@anon.efga.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Hi are there any other cypherpunk lists? With all due respect this list has a *lot* of noise Perhaps something with- out the anarchy. I enjoy the wild side of this list but I would also like something more targeted. Thanks in advance From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "James A. Donald" Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 07:45:22 +0800 To: Steve Mynott Subject: Re: non-transferable signatures (Re: Crypto Kong penetration.) Message-ID: <199801182338.PAA13453@proxy4.ba.best.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -- At 10:48 PM 1/16/98 +0000, Steve Mynott wrote: > SMIME of course despite bad cypherpunk karma is easy and > maybe even works between mailers. Easy indeed, if all the keys from Verisign are correct and secured. It is indeed very easy to use SMIME. To use it so that it actually accomplishes the intended result is not so easy. --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG Np4QfrajG+6u2ZHUc2AFBH0uTX9nCJxCUi7E2bpk 3CGDysj2FaqaZYBM4bRe6dvLCkbb0ltwLns5aFPQ9 --------------------------------------------------------------------- We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this right, not from the arbitrary power of the state. http://www.jim.com/jamesd/ From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 06:26:04 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: uh, In-Reply-To: <199801181249.MAA00208@server.eternity.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Adam Back writes: > > Bill Payne used to work for one of the US national labs, he did some > work funded by NSA at that lab. He considered that the NSA were > making incompetent cryptographic decisions endangering national > security. > > He's suing them over their attempts to silence his criticisms by > working behind the scenes to deprive him of research funding. ... Bill Payne was with Sandia national lab (where they quite a bit of crypto work) Bill claims to have discovered a very fast factorization algorithm using shift registers, which he refuses to publish. While I haven't seen the algorithm, I believe he may well be right. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Robert Hettinga Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 06:13:29 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Fwd: Internet security (VERY LONG) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain --- begin forwarded text Subject: Fwd: Internet security (VERY LONG) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 98 12:34:36 -0500 From: Somebody To: "Robert Hettinga" Mime-Version: 1.0 ---------------- Begin Forwarded Message ---------------- Date: 01/17 3:25 PM Received: 01/17 5:24 PM From: Richard Fairfax, richard_fairfax@compuserve.com Reply-To: CSA Talk, csa@blueworld.com To: CSA Talk, csa@blueworld.com The following forwarded mail may have implications for clients with sensitive data. The field encription features in Troi FM Plug-in could prove to be a valuable asset. Richard Fairfax Oakwood Designs ---forwarded mail START--- From: gp-uk@mailbase.ac.uk,Net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Aus: z-netz.datenschutz.spionage: A GLOBAL electronic spy network that can eavesdrop on every telephone, email and telex communication around the world will be officially acknowledged for the first time in a European Commission report to be delivered this week. The report - Assessing the Technologies of Political Control - was commissioned last year by the Civil Liberties Committee of the European Parliament. It contains details of a network of American-controlled intelligence stations on British soil and around the world, that "routinely and indiscriminately" monitor countless phone, fax and email messages. It states: "Within Europe all email telephone and fax communications are routinely intercepted by the United States National Security Agency transfering all target information from the European mainland via the strategic hub of London then by satellite to Fort Meade in Maryland via the crucial hub at Menwith Hill in the North York moors in the UK." The report confirms for the first time the existence of the secretive ECHELON system. Until now, evidence of such astounding technology has been patchy and anecdotal. But the report - to be discussed on Thursday by the commit- tee of the office of Science and Technology Assessment in Luxembourg - confirms that the citizens of Britain and other European states are subject to an intensity of surveillance far in excess of that imagined by most parliaments. Its findings are certain to excite the concern of MEPs. "The ECHELON system forms part of the UKUSA system (see 'Cooking up a charter for snooping') but unlike many of the electronic spy systems developed during the Cold War, ECHELON is designed primarily for non- military targets: governments, organizations and businesses in vir- tually every country. "The ECHELON system works by indiscriminately intercepting very large quantities of communications and then siphoning out what is valuable using artificial intelligence aids like MEMEX to find key words". According to the report, ECHELON uses a number of national dictionaries containing key words of interest to each country. For more than a decade, former agents of US, British, Canadian and New Zealand national security agencies have claimed that the monitoring of electronic communications has become endemic throughout the world. Rumours have circulated that new technologies have been developed which have the capability to search most of the world's telex, fax and email networks for "key words". Phone calls, they claim, can be automatically analysed for key words. Former signals intelligence operatives have claimed that spy bases controlled by America have the ability to search nearly all data communications for key words. They claim that ECHELON automatically analyses most email messaging for "precursor" data which assists in- telligence agencies to determine targets. According to former Canadian Security Establishment agent Mike Frost, a voice recognition system called Oratory has been used for some years to intercept diplomatic calls. The driving force behind the report is Glyn Ford, Labour MEP for Greater Manchester East. He believes that the report is crucial to the future of civil liberties in Europe. "In the civil liberties committee we spend a great deal of time debating issues such as free movement, immigration and drugs. Technology always sits at the centre of these discussions. There are times in history when technology helps democratise, and times when it helps centralise. This is a time of centralisation. The justice and home affairs pillar of Europe has become more powerful without a corresponding strengthening of civil liberties." The report recommends a variety of measures for dealing with the increasing power of the technologies of surveillance being used at Menwith Hill and other centres. It bluntly advises: "The European Parliament should reject proposals from the United States for making private messages via the global communications network (Internet) a ccessible to US intelligence agencies." The report also urges a fundamental review of the involvement of the American NSA (National Security Agency) in Europe, suggesting that their activities be either scaled down, or become more open and accountable. Such concerns have been privately expressed by governments and MEPs since the Cold War, but surveillance has continued to expand. US intel- ligence activity in Britain has enjoyed a steady growth throughout the past two decades. The principal motivation for this rush of development is the US interest in commercial espionage. In the Fifties, during the development of the "special relationship" between America and Britain, one US institution was singled out for special attention. The NSA, the world's biggest and most powerful signals intelligence organisation, received approval to set up a network of spy stations throughout Britain. Their role was to provide military, diplomatic and economic intelligence by intercepting communications from throughout the Northern Hemisphere. The NSA is one of the shadowiest of the US intelligence agencies. Until a few years ago, it existence was a secret and its charter and any mention of its duties are still classified. However, it does have a Web site (www.nsa.gov:8080) in which it describes itself as being respon- sible for the signals intelligence and communications security activ- ities of the US government. One of its bases, Menwith Hill, was to become the biggest spy station in the world. Its ears - known as radomes - are capable of listening in to vast chunks of the communications spectrum throughout Europe and the old Soviet Union. In its first decade the base sucked data from cables and microwave links running through a nearby Post Office tower, but the communi- cations revolutions of the Seventies and Eighties gave the base a capability that even its architects could scarcely have been able to imagine. With the creation of Intelsat and digital telecommunications, Menwith and other stations developed the capability to eavesdrop on an extensive scale on fax, telex and voice messages. Then, with the development of the Internet, electronic mail and electronic commerce, the listening posts were able to increase their monitoring capability to eavesdrop on an unprecedented spectrum of personal and business communications. This activity has been all but ignored by the UK Parliament. When Labour MPs raised questions about the activities of the NSA, the Government invoked secrecy rules. It has been the same for 40 years. Glyn Ford hopes that his report may be the first step in a long road to more openness. "Some democratically elected body should surely have a right to know at some level. At the moment that's nowhere". See also in this week's issue: Pretty good Phil bounces back (a report on the consolidation of the reputation of Phil Zimmermann, creator of PGP). 14 October 1997: Europe's private parts to expand * * * * * ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hilfe zu den BvD Mailinglisten? An- oder Abmelden? Mail an bvd-majordomo@ibh.tfu.uni-ulm.de, Subject: egal, Text: help ODER: http://www.fh-ulm.de/bvd ---forwarded mail END--- ----------------- End Forwarded Message ----------------- --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/ Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 08:03:59 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: let's do it: NYT ad with hash of fingerprints (fwd) Message-ID: <199801190033.SAA19067@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 23:21:38 GMT > From: Adam Back > Subject: let's do it: NYT ad with hash of fingerprints > I would have thought you would take out a cheap personals section > advertisement and print one hash output and a URL. The hash ouput > would be the hash of the hashes of a chosen set of public key > fingerprints. This doesn't provide the same sort of protection the original full page ad is supposed to provide. That full page ad will be accessible as a referenc a hundred years from now in just about every library in the country. The link to a webpage won't be. Distinctly different security animals. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: John Young Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 07:38:32 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Voice Coding Controls Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980118233849.0071684c@pop.pipeline.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain DM notes of the BXA Wassenaar rule for voice coding: After looking at some of the Wassenaar docs, I was surprised to see that the CCL wants to regulate speech encoders that operate at less than 2400 bps. Surprising because it was encoding, not encryption, that was being regulated. This is disturbing. This at first seemed to put some of the Nautilus development team's software in jeopardy, but I believe that by the letter of the law (or regulation) that all coders in Nautilus are not subject to the CCL, as they only go as low as 2400 bps and not less than. For citations of voice coding in Category 5 - Telecommunications: http://jya.com/bxa-wa-cat5.htm#5A001b10 http://jya.com/bxa-wa-cat5.htm#5A991b6a From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 08:24:05 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: eternity economics (Re: (eternity) Eternity as a secure filesystem/backup medium (fwd) Message-ID: <199801190050.SAA19224@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 21:40:28 GMT > From: Adam Back > Subject: eternity economics (Re: (eternity) Eternity as a secure filesystem/backup medium > Eternity helps here in that it obscures the poster's identity, and > reduces their exposure in that they personally don't have to send as > many messages. Eternity also helps ensure continued availability, at > least while somebody is funding that availability. True enough, the question becomes who does that continued funding help the most? > Releasing the data themselves is problematic. They may not wish to > accept the risk. Eternity provides a way to pay someone else to take > the risks in ensuring availability. Really? What is the difference? Mallet attacks the server itself who has only the resources available from the source, which I believe can assume safely, which is obviously less than the resource set of those who could actualy act upon or impliment the data under discussion. > The users is getting value for money from the eternity servers -- the > eternity server is providing the service of risk taking. Yes, at bargain basement prices that allow, if not even promote, a daddy warbucks to walk in and up the ante above what the source can pay. No, the source payment mechanism does not promote either server honesty or long term existance of controversial data. We're going round and round here, as I said earlier the views are diametricaly opposite. I would suggest we drop this discussion and let us see what happens over the next few years as it is clear that many people are working on different implimentations. Let's let the market decide which works best. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 08:26:05 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: how to release code if the programmer is a target for (fwd) Message-ID: <199801190056.SAA19276@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 15:15:22 -0600 (CST) > From: "Uhh...this is Joe [Randall Farmer]" > Subject: Re: how to release code if the programmer is a target for (fwd) > > Where does this random user come from? > > Why does it matter? As long as she's competent enough to choose good verifiers > and verify that those verifiers verified the code in question, it all works out > in the end. Because whether she is a honest user or one who is intent on subverting the system is relevant and must be taken into account. > We don't. There is no way to operate without *some* trust; I disagree. I believe it is possible to create a system which is secure and provably so, irrespective of something as nebulous as 'trust'. > Might be, but this code has to be more than just understood -- it must be > painstakingly checked for subtle flaws and bugs. Welcome to the world of > adversarial quality control. Been there it's part of what I do for a living, it's fun. > > Which doesn't effect the ability of Mallet to resign that code at the users > > end in order to break the users local security. > > Unless you're exposing a new weakness in the trust model PGP uses, Mallet can't > do that, providing the user has done good key authentication and hasn't listed > one of Mallet's goons as a trusted code-verifier. This is true if Mallet is attacking the key system, it is not strictly true if Mallet is attacking a specific user. > Yup, that's why the user has to check it by hand. Then the Eternity model is doomed to fail. 90%+ of users who might want to use a data haven model don't have a clue as to how it works or how to actualy check it. > Well, if you can't verify it yourself and you can't trust other people to > verify it, my advice is to give up; you cannot be sure of *any* public keys I disagree, though I am not able to prove it at this time. > keys; any sig you check might be signed by one of Mallet's keys. My point exactly. As with Adam, it feels like we are beginning to go around and around with nothing new to add. I would suggest that we drop the issue for the moment and come back to it at a later time with a little more reflection. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 08:30:17 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: Signed document - a thought... (fwd) Message-ID: <199801190058.SAA19318@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 21:06:28 GMT > From: Adam Back > Subject: Re: Signed document - a thought... > Sounds like you are describing something which is a variant of an > interlock protocol. The idea of an interlock protocol is that you > send out first a hash of what you are intending to publish. > > The MITM has a problem in deciding what to publish, because they have > to publish _a_ hash, but they don't know what it should be of. Exactly. I hadn't heard of the term 'interlock protocol', thanks for the tip. I'll look into it some more. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "wabe" Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 08:15:24 +0800 To: "Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer" Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <002a01bd2487$f3d8d2a0$d78588d1@justice> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain This is an e-mail which I am intentionally muddling by making it have very long lines and stuff. I plan on saving this too, to analyze later and try to recreate using some sort of silly "delete the misplaced carriage return" later. I'm not going to sign it though. So Bill Payne has the black box to sneakers but he won't publish it for fear the NSA will use it to read his e-mail and also because they pissed him off by trying to silence his critisisms of the way they handled something with Iran or something? I don't read legaleze very well.... -wabe From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Steve Schear Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 11:23:27 +0800 To: Jim Choate Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 8:30 PM -0600 1/18/98, Jim Choate wrote: >Hi, > >It has been proposed to compress the keys from 100 cypherpunks down to a 64 >character add in the NYT. Let's consider the math a moment to determine if >this is realizable. > >Each key will require some sort of identifier, to make it simple lets assume >8 characters to identify the cypherpunks and 8 bytes to represent their key >(64-bits). This mean that each line will contain 16 bytes. With a hundred >entries that is 1600 bytes or 12800 bits. > >Now 64 characters of text in a newspaper represents approx. 64 6-bit >characters (we can't use a full 8-bit because the paper doesn't normaly >support that many characters in normal text). This provides us with >384 bits. > >The proposal leads to a requirement for an algorithm with an average >compression factor of: > >12800/384 or 33.33:1 with no data loss. > >That's a pretty hefty compression factor for average responce. > >Is there a loss-less algorithm which provides this level? Compression efficiency depends upon 1) the entropy of the input data, 2) the allowable losses and 3) finding an efficient algorithm to code for that entropy. For example, text rarely compress w/o loss beyond 4-5 to 1 (and 2-3 is more typical) using LZW (the defacto standard algorithm). Images have much more correlation in their data (and therfore can be compressed more readily), but even so lossless compression beyond 3-5 to 1 is uncommon (e.g., TIFF). JPG and other lossy algorithms need no apply. I think I'm on fairly firm ground assuming that key data entropy is very high and therefore little or no compressible is feasible. --Steve From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: John Young Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 08:34:18 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: CAD Stego Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980119003138.006cc150@pop.pipeline.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain This repeats a suggestion from 1994 about using computer assisted design programs to conceal text or other data: 1. CAD uses vectors to make graphics, including text, and most programs can import a wide variety of data from other formats. 2. Several features can manipulate CAD objects into unrecognizable forms by modifying scale, dimension, orientation, opacity and so on. 3. The scale feature is useful to reduce, say, a text of any length, or any digital object, to the size of a pixel. This pixel can be located, say, under a visible line, or, be made transparent as a "phantom" object. (An engineer "stipples" concrete with microdot exotica and lofts the docs to the Saudis, getting paid ten times the regular fee.) 4. Or, the text can be distorted by scale and dimension to appear to be a line serving another function. 5. It's a snap to encrypt the text and import it into CAD via several programs that do that duty. Then the message could be distorted or hidden as described above, for piggy-backing on an innocent- looking document issued, say, to GSA for replenishing the Blanco Bunker, where it would be opened by the cp insider-sou-chef for de-distorted, decrypted instructions on how to prepare and place the bean. 6. To be sure, the underlying CAD code of the ciphertext could be identified by an astute auto-message-vetter of the EOP and then the CADbreakers would be beckoned to the roachtrap. 7. Big shortcoming: how to securely transmit the location (virtual coordinates) of the hidden message and what modifications need to be reversed for message access. Beware of using 0,0,0 -- a near-universal data point for CAD docs. However, 0,0,2^50 miles might be overlooked if the 3d view is disabled. 8. Medium shortcoming: Full-featured CAD programs are expensive, however, the popular lite versions are cheap and can usually read the pricier output. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 09:07:35 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: CAD Stego (fwd) Message-ID: <199801190137.TAA19440@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 19:31:38 -0500 > From: John Young > Subject: CAD Stego > This repeats a suggestion from 1994 about using computer > assisted design programs to conceal text or other data: > 3. The scale feature is useful to reduce, say, a text > of any length, or any digital object, to the size of a pixel. Assuming your color palate is deep enough to support the compression. > 4. Or, the text can be distorted by scale and dimension > to appear to be a line serving another function. Don't you think they are going to wonder why *that* line is so varied in color? Or assuming deep color pallettes, why so many colors are selected when only a few dozen are actualy used in the drawing? > Then the message could be distorted or hidden as > described above, for piggy-backing on an innocent- > looking document issued, I suspect they'll wonder why that particular file is so much larger than the other graphics files with the same number of layers. > 7. Big shortcoming: how to securely transmit the location > (virtual coordinates) of the hidden message and what Look for the pixel that has the unique color mapped onto it. > 8. Medium shortcoming: Full-featured CAD programs are > expensive, however, the popular lite versions are cheap > and can usually read the pricier output. And can't handle more than a few dozen colors and limited layering. This suggestion is unworkable in application. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 09:32:39 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: let's do it: NYT ad with hash of fingerprints (fwd) Message-ID: <199801190158.TAA19549@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 20:04:40 -0500 > From: John Young > Subject: Re: let's do it: NYT ad with hash of fingerprints (fwd) > Printed ads are sometimes not archived as widely as news articles, due > to the cost of reproduction, distribution and storage. My experience with libraries is that they subscribe to the entire paper. Place it in their archives and then at some time in the future micro-fiche the whole paper. I have never seen a library that picked and chose what got archived in their paper morgue's. I have done research on newspapers going all the way back to the civil war, I have yet to find one that wasn't archived in toto, ads and all. > The same is true, though, of personals and other types of throwaways. True but the point was that the data these short ads point to is *not* archived by the same entity or necessarily any entity. Is your webpage being archived by your local library? I be the New York Times is. > Adam, could you reduce the requisite gob to fit 64 characters? Each extra > line runs about $300. Your going to compress 100 cypherpunks 64-bit keys (I prefer 128-bit) down to 64 characters without data loss? I wanna see *that* compression algorithm. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: John Young Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 09:08:17 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: let's do it: NYT ad with hash of fingerprints (fwd) Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980119010440.0072a198@pop.pipeline.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Jim Choate wrote: >This doesn't provide the same sort of protection the original full page ad >is supposed to provide. That full page ad will be accessible as a reference >a hundred years from now in just about every library in the country. The >link to a webpage won't be. Printed ads are sometimes not archived as widely as news articles, due to the cost of reproduction, distribution and storage. The same is true, though, of personals and other types of throwaways. One possibility is to buy an ad on the NYT Front Page which is often sent as an image around the world separately from the full paper, and on which one can buy a tiny ad for about $800 for two lines of text 32 characters long (ID must be included). That's the rate for a one-timer. Adam, could you reduce the requisite gob to fit 64 characters? Each extra line runs about $300. However, bear in mind that a news article is cheaper and will be archived for eternity (until Asteroid Endall); cheaper, that is, if you can pukedrunk a reviler. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 12:34:11 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: ashcroft on encryption Message-ID: <199801190418.UAA19045@netcom16.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain ------- Forwarded Message Date: Sun, 18 Jan 98 17:51:16 -0500 From: vols-fan@juno.com (R L Johnson) To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com Subject: IP: Senator Wants Back Door to Encrypted Data Closed http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/9661.html Senator Wants Back Door to Encrypted Data Closed Reuters 3:15pm 14.Jan.98.PST WASHINGTON - Sounding the opening bell of a renewed battle over encryption policy, Senate Republican John D. Ashcroft has declared he would oppose legislation that would mandate that all software made in the Unites States be equipped with features that would allow government access to all encrypted data. "Americans must be free to communicate privately, without the government listening in," Ashcroft said in a statement Tuesday. "The privacy concerns here are fundamental and call for serious consideration by the Senate." The Missouri Republican said he would hold a hearing next month on the issue in the Senate Judiciary's Constitution, Federalism, and Property Rights subcommittee he chairs. Ashcroft's remarks followed a battle last year in Congress over regulation of encryption technology, which scrambles information and renders it unreadable without a password or software "key." Encryption has become an increasingly critical means of securing electronic commerce and communications on the Internet. But the scrambling capability can also be used by criminals to hide their dealings from law enforcement agencies. A bill approved by the Senate Commerce Committee last year would impose strong incentives to promote the use of encryption with a back door to allow covert government decoding of any information. And legislation approved by some committees in the House would go even further, requiring the back door in all products sold in the United States. Ashcroft said he opposed the Senate measure, sponsored by Bob Kerrey, Democrat of Nebraska, and John McCain, Republican of Arizona. Majority Leader Trent Lott asked Ashcroft to "pay special attention" to the issue, Ashcroft said. ********************************************** To subscribe or unsubscribe, email: majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com with the message: subscribe ignition-point email@address or unsubscribe ignition-point email@address ********************************************** http://www.telepath.com/believer ********************************************** ------- End of Forwarded Message From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 10:02:02 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: NTY compression proposal Message-ID: <199801190230.UAA19688@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Hi, It has been proposed to compress the keys from 100 cypherpunks down to a 64 character add in the NYT. Let's consider the math a moment to determine if this is realizable. Each key will require some sort of identifier, to make it simple lets assume 8 characters to identify the cypherpunks and 8 bytes to represent their key (64-bits). This mean that each line will contain 16 bytes. With a hundred entries that is 1600 bytes or 12800 bits. Now 64 characters of text in a newspaper represents approx. 64 6-bit characters (we can't use a full 8-bit because the paper doesn't normaly support that many characters in normal text). This provides us with 384 bits. The proposal leads to a requirement for an algorithm with an average compression factor of: 12800/384 or 33.33:1 with no data loss. That's a pretty hefty compression factor for average responce. Is there a loss-less algorithm which provides this level? ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 12:42:16 +0800 To: Adam Back Subject: Re: proving that one knows how to break RSA In-Reply-To: <199801182343.XAA00268@server.eternity.org> Message-ID: <199801190434.UAA20448@netcom16.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > >Dimitri Vulis writes: >> Bill Payne was with Sandia national lab (where they quite a bit of >> crypto work) Bill claims to have discovered a very fast >> factorization algorithm using shift registers, which he refuses to >> publish. While I haven't seen the algorithm, I believe he may well >> be right. I think this ought to be nipped in the bud right now if not true. I've heard rumors on this list about algorithms but attributing it to someone at Sandia is pretty substantial however I think DV's claim above sounds totally bogus. if anyone else can comment please do. I don't so much want to know whether he has discovered an algorithm at this point, only whether someone at Sandia claims to have discovered a fast factoring algorithm. after that-- well, what exactly is "fast"? From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 12:44:40 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: movie "good will hunting" Message-ID: <199801190440.UAA20828@netcom16.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain highly recommend this movie, "good will hunting". excellent script that will leave you startled at times. plot is that a young kid from a very rough background who is a janitor at MIT seems to be a math genius possibly on the level of Ramanujan. reason I am posting here: there's a really great rant by the character at one point as he sits in an office with an NSA rep and a medal-laced general and insults them about a job offer in the agency to work under classified conditions. the NSA rep offers him math research into state of the art theory but requires that the work be classified. I think there is a line about how the NSA has 7 times the budget of the CIA but they don't like to make that well known. (one might say it was sort of a rant on the morality of confidentiality. ) if anyone would care to tape this and post a transcript I think it would be very interesting to other cpunks. its a rare reference to NSA in the popular media. of course not on the level of "sneakers" as far as crypto references, but an interesting snippet nonetheless, and I think that some people here might identify a lot with the protagonist. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 10:25:09 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: proving that one knows how to break RSA In-Reply-To: <199801182343.XAA00268@server.eternity.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Adam Back writes: > Dimitri Vulis writes: > > Bill Payne was with Sandia national lab (where they quite a bit of > > crypto work) Bill claims to have discovered a very fast > > factorization algorithm using shift registers, which he refuses to > > publish. While I haven't seen the algorithm, I believe he may well > > be right. > > Bill Payne's claim to having discovered a faster factorization > algorithm than the current state of the art, allows us to invoke the > oft discussed mechanisms for the author to prove this ability without > divulging the algorithm, and then proceed to sell the algorithm to the > highest bidder, whilst minimizing his chances of being killed. ... I believe Bill is genuinely afraid that if he published his algorithm, then he'll be killed. I don't know enough to judge how realistic his fear is. I've been involved in serious discussions of assassinations over smaller amounts of money than is at stake here. He displays great courage by saying anything at all at this point. I also have an extremely high opinion of Bill's (and Adam Back's) technical abiltities. That is, I'd be much less surprised if Bill Payne (or Adam Back) comes up with some truly remarkable breakthrough than someone I've never heard of or someone I heard of and don't have such a high opinion of. Yes, it would be most interesting/impressive if Bill demonstrated his ability to factor using some of the published chalenges. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Dr. Alan Sherman" Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 10:07:49 +0800 To: Crypto Announce MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain The UMBC Security Technology Research Group presents A Law-Enforcement Perspective on Encryption Policy Barry Smith Supervisory Special Agent, FBI moderated by journalist Peter Wayner 3:30pm - 5:00pm Friday, March 6, 1998 Lecture Hall V (LOCATION SUBJECT TO CHANGE) University of Maryland, Baltimore County http://www.cs.umbc.edu/events/spring98/crypto.shtml The second lecture and discussion in a two-part forum on encryption policy. Journalist Peter Wayner will introduce and moderate the event, which is free and open to the public. In Part I, freedom activist John Gilmore and Fritz Fielding (Ex-Associate General Councel, NSA) gave their divergent views, focusing on the Burnstein case. Barry Smith will articulate the needs of law enforcement to conduct lawful wiretaps; he will advocate the use of key-recovery techniques to achieve this end as a way that provides adequate privacy to law-abiding citizens. Schedule: The event will begin with a brief (10 minute) introduction by Peter Wayner. Following Barry Smith's talk, which will last approximately 45 minutes, there will be an opportunity to ask questions for approximately 20-30 minutes. Questions: Attendees are encouraged to ask questions in advance by sending email to sherman@cs.umbc.edu Directions: Take Exit #47B off interstate I-95 and follow signs to UMBC. LH V is on the 100-level of the Engineering Computer Science (ECS) Building, directly behind the University Center. There is a visitor's parking lot near the I-95 entrance to UMBC. Host: Dr. Alan T. Sherman Associate Professor, Computer Science sherman@cs.umbc.edu http://www.umbc.edu (410) 455-2666 This event is held in cooperation with the UMBC Intellectual Sports Council Honors College Phi Beta Kappa honors society CMSC Council of Majors IFSM Council of Majors From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Alan Olsen Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 13:10:27 +0800 To: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" Subject: Re: proving that one knows how to break RSA In-Reply-To: <199801182343.XAA00268@server.eternity.org> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980118205744.03638ca0@clueserver.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 08:34 PM 1/18/98 -0800, Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote: >I think this ought to be nipped in the bud right now if not true. >I've heard rumors on this list about algorithms but attributing it to >someone at Sandia is pretty substantial however I think DV's claim >above sounds totally bogus. if anyone else can comment please do. >I don't so much want to know whether he has discovered an algorithm >at this point, only whether someone at Sandia claims to have >discovered a fast factoring algorithm. after that-- well, what >exactly is "fast"? Payne's previous claims were examined on one of the other crypto lists a few months ago. (Actually "ripped apart" is a better term.) Wei Dei and a few others examined the mathmatical basis of his "break" of RSA. Turns out that is is not nearly the shortcut claimed. (Actually not a shortcut at all.) Based on that previous experience, I would be very suspect of such a claim from Mr. Payne without any proof. --- | "That'll make it hot for them!" - Guy Grand | |"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmermann unites all| Disclaimer: | | mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!" | Ignore the man | |`finger -l alano@teleport.com` for PGP 2.6.2 key | behind the keyboard.| | http://www.ctrl-alt-del.com/~alan/ |alan@ctrl-alt-del.com| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Adam Back Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 06:16:28 +0800 To: ravage@ssz.com Subject: Re: Signed document - a thought... In-Reply-To: <199801181631.KAA17197@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199801182106.VAA00440@server.eternity.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sounds like you are describing something which is a variant of an interlock protocol. The idea of an interlock protocol is that you send out first a hash of what you are intending to publish. The MITM has a problem in deciding what to publish, because they have to publish _a_ hash, but they don't know what it should be of. Adam From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Kent Crispin Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 13:37:33 +0800 To: Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer Subject: Re: (eternity) Eternity as a secure filesystem/backup medium (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801182053.OAA18106@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <19980118213138.54953@songbird.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Sun, Jan 18, 1998 at 02:53:54PM -0600, Jim Choate wrote: > Forwarded message: > > > Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 12:02:34 -0800 > > From: Kent Crispin > > Subject: Re: (eternity) Eternity as a secure filesystem/backup medium (fwd) > > > There are alternative ways of paying for the service that do not in > > any way depend on ecash, and after thinking about it a bit, they seem > > more robust, as well. > > > > The basic idea is as follows: The fundamental eternity service is > > free to readers, and is financed entirely by writers. The writers > > supply the disk space, the network bandwidth, and possibly pay for > > the software to support all this. > > It is clear that there are two diametricaly opposed models of payment > mechanisms and who those costs should fall on; producers or consumers. > I personaly have no faith in systems where the producers bear the burden of > the costs since they have no clear mechanism to obtain the funds to finance > the enterprise in the first place. You must find the advertising business completely mystifying, then. > Imagine for a moment that a couple of persons come into possession of a set > of documents which would cause considerable political embarassment and legal > difficulties for a head of the local government. > > Why should these two individuals pay to have their data dissiminated to > anyone who wants it? It certainly isn't going to improve their social, > political, or professional standing since the server will anonymize the > data. They then have two options, release it themselves and hope for the > best (and hence reap the benefit of any economic benefits that might acrue) > or do nothing with it. You pay to have your data disseminated in a form that you can be later paid -- for example, leave the juciest part of the data in encrypted form, along with a public key through which payment options can be negotiated. [...] > I guess the question boils down to why the individual operator in running > the server in the first place. I assume a priori that the goal of both the > submitter and the operator is to make a reliable income from the users of > the service since there are clearly many more consumers of information than > producers of it. Why on earth do you try to be an ISP, then? You pay for disk drives for other people to store their data, and make it available to the world. The eternity service is actually very similar. Given a protocol such as I described, you could move to Data Haven Island, and charge up front to supply pornographers with an entrance to the eternity service, while John Young could wallow in righteous ego gratification as he provides space for morally important documents by donating his disk space to eternity. You do it for the money, he does it for the buzz -- there are all kinds of ways to get paid. -- Kent Crispin, PAB Chair "No reason to get excited", kent@songbird.com the thief he kindly spoke... PGP fingerprint: B1 8B 72 ED 55 21 5E 44 61 F4 58 0F 72 10 65 55 http://songbird.com/kent/pgp_key.html From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: John Young Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 10:40:59 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: CAD Stego (fwd) Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980119023728.0070d8d0@pop.pipeline.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Jim Choate wrote: >This suggestion is unworkable in application. Why the focus on color, the easiest thing to avoid using, or layers, ditto? Superfluous for serious CAD, these dainty decorations from Martha Stewartville. Most messages could be concealed in "hatched" objects, bit-bloated as they are, indistinguishable from the elements used to hatch. All black and white; maybe a dot of red for cashmere dupe. In fact, CAD is so bloated with dumb cad-jockey features, and sleazebag work-monitoring logs, it puts most ordinary programs (even air-boss MS) to shame, and could hide a herd of rustled Mex longhorns as easily as the Bush family hides dryhole oil reserves, without any more trickery than sandpapering new boots to look worn. Anyway, Jim, I gather from your remarks that you've not fiddled for endless low-paid months and years to figure out how to cheat the evil bosses and automatic work-snoop feature, while onion-siphoning the Net for horny fare under guise of urgent file transfer to foam-mouth ne'erpays. Underground (so to speak) swapping of digital work avoidance tips is a huge use of global bandwidth riding on the backs of big fat docs for globular structures for maggoty thugs. (Although not nearly as gigantic as the porn trade stego-supporting Net infrastructre growth -- over 50% of Net traffic and rocketing.) Who knows how much illicit info is riding the porn river in and out of the most secure sanctums of tyrants? From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Adam Back Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 06:17:35 +0800 To: ravage@ssz.com Subject: eternity economics (Re: (eternity) Eternity as a secure filesystem/backup medium In-Reply-To: <199801182053.OAA18106@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199801182140.VAA00472@server.eternity.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Jim Choate writes: > Kent Crispin writes: > > Subject: Re: (eternity) Eternity as a secure filesystem/backup medium (fwd) > > > There are alternative ways of paying for the service that do not in > > any way depend on ecash, and after thinking about it a bit, they seem > > more robust, as well. > > > > The basic idea is as follows: The fundamental eternity service is > > free to readers, and is financed entirely by writers. The writers > > supply the disk space, the network bandwidth, and possibly pay for > > the software to support all this. > > It is clear that there are two diametricaly opposed models of payment > mechanisms and who those costs should fall on; producers or consumers. > I personaly have no faith in systems where the producers bear the burden of > the costs since they have no clear mechanism to obtain the funds to finance > the enterprise in the first place. > > Imagine for a moment that a couple of persons come into possession of a set > of documents which would cause considerable political embarassment and legal > difficulties for a head of the local government. > > Why should these two individuals pay to have their data dissiminated to > anyone who wants it? It certainly isn't going to improve their social, > political, or professional standing since the server will anonymize the > data. If the would be disseminater was happy to have their name associated with the document, they could put it on their own web page. The problems may be that: - they do not want to suffer the legal and extra-legal reprisals for posting, - they have little faith in the data remaining available for long on their web page, once well resourced determined attackers try to remove it. Eternity helps here in that it obscures the poster's identity, and reduces their exposure in that they personally don't have to send as many messages. Eternity also helps ensure continued availability, at least while somebody is funding that availability. > They then have two options, release it themselves and hope for the > best (and hence reap the benefit of any economic benefits that might > acrue) or do nothing with it. Releasing the data themselves is problematic. They may not wish to accept the risk. Eternity provides a way to pay someone else to take the risks in ensuring availability. > How about information to build man portable atomic bombs? It doesn't > make sense to take all those chances and the data haven operators to > take the chances when they will get at most the monetary input from > a *single* party. It is clear that these resources are clearly > inferior to many parties paying to get the data. The users is getting value for money from the eternity servers -- the eternity server is providing the service of risk taking. It is true that someone could pay for accessing the data, and resubmit it to eternity with themselves as the beneficiary. They would likely want to undercut the price charged by the initial poster. This suggests a recursive auction market with prices falling over time. The eternity server operators win in that they are being paid for their services. The original poster possibly doesn't make that much money, but the operator could counter by reducing their prices over time to undercut other copies also. There are other ways where the submitter could get higher prices. He could for example post the data in encrypted form, and send the decryption key to a high reputation third party to verify the authenticity of the data. He could then demand $10,000 for the key. Bids would be placed by users interested in obtaining the data. When the bid price is reached the data is posted. Bids would be held in escrow by the third party. In the event that the requested price is not met the ecash could be returned to the bidders. The market will discover the value of the risk taking services provided by the eternity servers in that if the servers over-charge, users will take their own risks, by starting their own servers. If a given server under-charges, other servers will sub contract to that server. There is a risk here that the NSA may offer eternity services at prices undercutting everyone else. This risk suggests that users would not necessarily select the cheapest services. If this pattern of usage emerges, it also suggests that the NSA would better optimise their efficacy by not offering the cheapest prices. The problem of preventing eternity servers sub-contracting all their work to the cheapest eternity-server (the NSA operated servers) suggests that it may be desirable to design a system so that the poster, or some third party auditing agent is able to verify where data resides. I can not see how this can generally be achieved, because it seems difficult to verify whether a server is sub-contracting or not. So in conclusion the safest strategy seems to be to select random servers regardless of price. This results in a flat demand curve, and no incentive for servers to offer cheap service. The model is more complex that this in that there are different risk documents and this risk would affect the price a submitter is willing to pay. Adam From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 11:24:05 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: CAD Stego (fwd) Message-ID: <199801190354.VAA20080@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 21:37:28 -0500 > From: John Young > Subject: Re: CAD Stego (fwd) > Why the focus on color, the easiest thing to avoid using, > or layers, ditto? Superfluous for serious CAD, these > dainty decorations from Martha Stewartville. The reason I addressed them is that they were what you brought up. Those dainty decorations are critical to every industrial use of CAD that I have ever been exposed to or used in an industrial setting. I'll have to disagree with your opinion on their utility. > Most messages could be concealed in "hatched" objects, > bit-bloated as they are, indistinguishable from the elements > used to hatch. All black and white; maybe a dot of red for > cashmere dupe. Ok, let's address hatching from the perspective of use as a means to encrypt data. Let's further use AutoCAD since it is by far the most used in industrial settings. I think you will find that most other CAD programs use one or more of the methods in AutoCAD. AutoCAD offers a standard set of hatching objects via the HATCH and BHATCH commands. In both cases the actual hatch patterns are 1-bit patterns meant to be tiled. The HATCH command itself is normaly used for gross backgrounds and such because it doesn't respect object boundaries. The BHATCH command does respect object boundaries and is used much more in industrial and machine drafting. In both cases the color of both the background and line color must be specified. The hatching pattern is then simply tiled across the appropriate area. It is possible to add other non-standard hatch patterns but again, they are 1-bit deep and tend to be regular so there isn't a lot of room to put data. It is possible to include AutoLisp routines to do such hashing but I fail to see how one would stego encrypted data in source code describing how to draw the pattern. There are two means to store reference to those patterns in a file. The first is simply to include a pointer to a standard table of hash patterns that every copy of the program will understand. I suspect that there isn't much room there for stego. Now if we extend the standard hash table we are required to include those hash patterns in our file and suitable coding to tell the foreign program to include them appropriately. I don't see a lot of room there for stego. The alternate is to include the actual hash pattern in the file specificaly not linked to the hash table, in other words an indpendant object we will manipulate through normal mechanisms. While I will agree that if you could guarantee that Mallet didn't actualy view the file as a graphic but rather as a file via some sort of character editor (eg od -c or od -h as the simplest) there isn't much room for getting caught. However, if you were to bring it up as a graphic and view it you find the actual hash pattern is limited because it can be of only a particular size for the hashing display and handling routines to handle. CAD programs at their basest level understand a limited set of objects; coordinate pairs, sets of such pairs for drawing lines, and color. Other geometric objects (eg circles or hatches) are usualy built up through some sort of algorithmic application of these basic objects. In the better CAD programs those objects are routines that are shared as standard functions in the program or through a cookie-cutter mechanism. The way new functions are added is to add some form of PDL (eg AutoLisp) function. The cookie-cutter mechanism usualy is limited by the 1-bit depth and the limited size of the patterns. Let's look at the mechanism that most CAD and graphics programs use for color manipulation. In very few programs that I have ever come across are the colors of each pixel actualy represented by some depth that allows the full range of colors for every pixel. In general some color map mechanism that takes a limited set of colors (usualy arrayed in a table) and allows the program to select a given color from that table. Such special effects as color cycling are created by writing a program that dynamicaly changes the color stored in each member of that table. This is very fast and allows every pixel for a given color to change in concert instead of the delay of having to go to every pixel and test its color and then change it; very slow. The way that most programs allow more colors than allowed by a given color table is they create some sort of interrupt for each line of the dispaly when the display gets a retrace pulse. When this pulse happens (on a 1024 x 768 it occurs every 1/768 seconds - a long time by computer standards) a routine changes the color map to the one appropriate for that line of the display. Some higher performance displays use a d/a mechanism so that each pixel on the display is addressible. These sorts of displays allow the color map to be changed for each pixel but they are very expensive in hardware and list price, both tend to limit the applicability to commen stego exchange outside a limited group. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Adam Back Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 06:16:34 +0800 To: schear@lvdi.net Subject: hashcash / Dwork-Naor paper (Re: RSA Conference: Deterence measures for SPAM) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801182157.VAA00551@server.eternity.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Steve Schear writes on cypherpunks: > Kevin McCurley, IBM, delivered a paper on using electronic commerce > techniques (i.e., d-postage) to deter SPAM. He cites a work by > Cynthia Dwork and Moni Naor, "Pricing via Processing or Combatting > Junk Mail," > http://www.wisdom.weizmann.ac.il/Papers/trs/CS95-20/abstract.html I > wan't able to access that paper and would be interested to know how > similar their appraoch is to HashCash. I had a look and their approach is very similar to that of hashcash. Thanks for posting the reference, I found the paper very interesting, and have contacted the authors (and Kevin (who is also webmaster of www.digicrime.com)) with comments. Their work predates hashcash by about 4 years. They have the same idea of using a CPU cost function to combat unsolicited bulk email and other unmetered resource abuses. Their cost functions are not based on hash collisions, but on public key problems. The use of public key problems allows them to construct a trap-door cost function. The holder of the private key can compute valid tokens cheaply. This allows them to propose a third party which sells bulk email tokens without itself having to have large CPU resources. Their example application is what they see as legitimate bulk emails, like conference calls. (I am not sure I always agree with this -- I get no end of spam conference calls which I have no interest in attending or submitting to, but the functionality of trap-door cost functions does allow more flexibility). Their cost functions are more expensive to verify than hashcash because they involve modular exponentations. I can simulate the short cut cost function functionality with symmetric encryption techniques by modifying the hashcash protocol. Users, or service providers wishing to participate in enabling a third party to sell tokens to bulk emailers for their email address(es) can aid the third party in bypassing the hashcash verification process on their eternity filter. This can be done with no databases on the ISP mail hub server (preserving privacy), and with no real time communications required between trusted bulk email token seller and mail hub. Adam From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 05:02:12 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: diplomacy In-Reply-To: <34C21266.142B@nmol.com> Message-ID: <199801182057.VAA18102@basement.replay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain bill payne wrote: > I sure hope the following was diplomatic enough. > > NSA exhibited NO SENSE OF HUMOR when I pointed out > 'deficiencies' in its crypto algorithm work. But, too, > the agrieve Islamic fundamentalists may not have too good > senses of humor. [...] > Sampling at the 1 Khz rate revealed that Windows > occasionally ţdid its own thingţ as a result of a task > switch and, therfore, interrupts were missed. I find it highly amusing that NSA would design supposedly secure crypto systems on completely insecure operating systems. If NSA's computers can be taken out just by sending a few packet fragments with bad offsets or macro viruses, that's beyond 'deficiencies' it's utter incompetance... From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Bill Stewart Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:29:24 +0800 To: Jim Choate Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980118220024.00839220@popd.ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >> The basic idea is as follows: The fundamental eternity service is >> free to readers, and is financed entirely by writers. The writers >> supply the disk space, the network bandwidth, and possibly pay for >> the software to support all this. > >It is clear that there are two diametricaly opposed models of payment >mechanisms and who those costs should fall on; producers or consumers. >I personaly have no faith in systems where the producers bear the burden of >the costs since they have no clear mechanism to obtain the funds to finance >the enterprise in the first place. Assume the existence of a for-profit service provider. The service provider needs to cover the costs of the service, plus enough profit to make the effort interesting. The prices charged need to reflect the costs (or be higher) or the service provider can't make money and goes out of business. So what are the costs, and who can be talked into paying for them? 1) Storage of information - Storage currently costs < $1/MB for raw disk, and getting cheaper by the minute, but sysadmins, lawyers, etc. cost money and they're not getting cheaper as fast. The costs of the equipment for permanent storage are probably about 10-50% more than the costs for storing for 5 years; the costs of administration (assuming inflation is limited to some small number) can be covered by an annuity. Every technology upgrade or two you need to copy the archives to new storage media, and data that doesn't get accessed often may get migrated out to slower or perhaps even offline media; storage contracts need to reflect that retrieving data that hasn't been accessed in a while may involve some delay. 2) Transmission of information - Roughly proportional to MB/time - unlike storage, this one's not predictable, unless the provider and author agree in advance (e.g. N free accesses per year, per password.) So the provider could charge the reader for access, or use advertising banners to fund retrieval costs (if that remains a valid model for financing the web over the next N years, especially if the readers retrieve data through anonymizers.) 3) Legal defense - This one's harder to predict :-) The current US climate is that service providers are relatively immune as long as they cooperate with subpoenas and court orders, discourage copyright violators, and avoid having legal knowledge of the contents of their sites, but that could change. >Why should these two individuals pay to have their data dissiminated to >anyone who wants it? It certainly isn't going to improve their social, >political, or professional standing since the server will anonymize the If they want their names known, they can include them in the contents of the data that readers retrieve, independent of what the server does. (Of course, they can forge other peoples' names as well :-) And they can use pseudonyms, with or without digital signatures, and accumulate reputation capital under those nyms. If they want to collect money from the readers, that's independent - they may be able to include advertising, or may sell the decryption keys to the data for digicash or information using some contact mechanism, or they may just be publishing their manifestos for The True Cause. Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 11:37:02 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: NTY compression proposal (fwd) Message-ID: <199801190401.WAA20181@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text All editing errors are my own, I re-formatted the original text to better address the points. Forwarded message: > Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 19:17:32 -0800 > From: Steve Schear > Subject: Re: NTY compression proposal > Compression efficiency depends upon > 1) the entropy of the input data We are looking at selecting 100 64-bit keys out of a set of 2^64, that is not a lot of opportunity there, given a random key generation process, for a lot of commen patterns in the key set. If we don't have a lot of commen patterns in the text we don't get a lot of compression. > 2) the allowable losses In this case we can't afford any loss. > 3) finding an efficient algorithm to code for that entropy. Which if we do the math requires something in the neighborhood of 33:1, for a loss-less algorithm that's a pretty hurky boundary condition. > I think I'm on fairly firm ground assuming that key data entropy is very= > high and therefore little or no compressible is feasible. My point exactly, which would lead us to the conclusion that our requirement of a 33:1 compression factor is not realizable. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 11:40:28 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Future War on TDL... Message-ID: <199801190408.WAA20234@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Hi, Check out Futurewar on The Discovery Channel, it's been playing since 8pm Central. Bruce Sterling appears for a blipvert. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Otto Matic" Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 14:26:25 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: Nanotechnology Message-ID: <19980119060838.26648.qmail@hotmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Cross posted to the "Highly Imaginative Technology List" HIT-list@asisem.org >------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- >Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 23:14:32 -0500 >From: Nathan Russell >Reply-to: frussell@frontiernet.net >To: HIT-list@asisem.org >Subject: Re: HIT: Fwd: (Fwd) Re: Nanotechnology > >Otto Matic wrote: >> >> >Orinally posted to the cypherpunks list cypherpunks@cyberpass.net. >> > >> >------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- >> >Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 11:45:36 -0500 >> >From: ghio@temp0181.myriad.ml.org (Matthew Ghio) >> >Subject: Re: Nanotechnology >> >To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net >> >Reply-to: ghio@temp0181.myriad.ml.org (Matthew Ghio) Matthew Ghio Wrote to the Cypherpunks: <<>> >> >So roughly 8 months just to build one copy, rather than to achieve >> >world domination. :) >> > >> >Still, unless I'm way off on these estimates, it's within the right >> >ballpark. If the cubes were 1 cm, you could make copies in less >> >than a day, assuming it didn't get too hot at that power level. >> >Just figure out how you're going to feed the electricity and raw >> >materials into all those little things... > >You could direct the molecules the same way electron beams are steered >in a TV > > > >This sort of replicator is not what is usually >considered > >nanotechnology, but if it actually worked, such a >device >could become > >quite popular. Nathan Russell wrote to the HIT-List Yeah... what about making microchips, LSD or diamonds - all of which have very high value/mass ratios. Or bio warfare agents - maybe in cryogenic state to be warmed up when finished. What about more complicated lifeforms - like people. It would be hard to figure out what to use for currancy, though - in Star Trek, Latinum is assumed, according to one book, to be dependent for its properties on a huge number of molecular legs resting against each other rather like the fins of an artichoke steamer - can't be replicated because unless the molecule is complete each leg creates an unequal force on its neighbors and they flip into a non-latinum position. Not that there wouldn't be positive elements - medicine would be very cheap. In fact, a pound - or maybe a mole - of anything with value would cost no more than its component elements, plus labor. What about little self- 'replicating' robots that go into a landfill and produce an army of themselves, turning excess elements into something useful. BTW, could living things be replicated or would the structure be too complex? Intelligence supposebly depends on electrons moving in tiny protein quantom channels in the brain in a completely unprodictable way, telpathy is the electrons becoming quantom linked. That could be hard to replicate. -Nathan ___END FORWARDED___ Thought you cypher punks would like to see this. Otto ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Bill Stewart Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:29:51 +0800 To: Ryan Lackey Subject: Re: (eternity) Eternity as a secure filesystem/backup medium In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980117194905.008024e0@pobox1.stanford.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980118221351.0083a220@popd.ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 09:33 AM 1/18/98 EST, Ryan Lackey wrote: >Documents by specification last only as long as someone is willing to pay >to keep them up. This is not necessarily forever. But it can be, and the costs of doing so aren't much higher than storing it for the first couple of years. Depends on what service the customer wants to buy. And there are applications that require more than 100 years of data protection, e.g. ownership of copyrights which last 50 years beyond the author's death. But for Matt Barrie's question, any permanent document will do. >> Can we assume that using Moore's law this is at >> least 1 bit every 18 months for symmetric crypto? >Do the math, though, for 128bit. There are traditional analyses >which include the amount of silicon on the earth, the number of atoms >in the universe, etc. The general consensus is that traditional >techniques are not feasible for brute forcing 128bit ciphers before >the heat death of the universe. Hard to say. Assuming that Quantum Cryptography doesn't allow finite-sized computers to do large exponentially complex calculations in short finite time, you're probably limited by the number of atoms in the available supply of planets, and Heisenberg may still get you if that's not a low enough limit. Moore's law isn't forever. But there's no particular reason to limit RC4 or RC5 to 128 bits; those are convenient sizes for MD5 hashes of passphrases. So if you're paranoid, use RC4-256 and superencrypt with 5-DES. Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Bill Stewart Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:47:15 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: API Specification for the AES Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980118221603.0083a9f0@popd.ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 14:59:37 -0500 >To: smid@csmes.ncsl.nist.gov >From: Jim Foti >Subject: API Specification for the AES > >Hello- > >As promised, we have placed on our AES Home Page a specification of the API >to be used for AES submissions (for both Java and ANSI C implementations). >It is available at . > >As with past messages, this is being sent to all persons who have expressed >an interest in the AES development effort (one way or another) within the >last year. > >Regards, >Jim > > >******************************************************************* >Jim Foti > >Security Technology Group >Computer Security Division >National Institute of Standard and Technology (NIST) > >TEL: (301) 975-5237 >FAX: (301) 948-1233 > >******************************************************************* > > From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: John Young Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 11:24:44 +0800 To: Adam Back Subject: Re: let's do it: NYT ad with hash of fingerprints (fwd) Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980119032518.00b1fda4@pop.pipeline.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Adam Back wrote: >What do you mean that you must include ID? Someone must give an email >address, or phone number? Should be ok to fit one of those in the >remaining 24 - 32 chars. ID once meant name, address and telephone number, now a name, tel num and e-mail is okay (along with "Advt"). The NYT claims it owes this to its readers to show who's not who. The "ads" are called "reader notices" by the NYT, which calls to verify the bona fides of the purchaser. And they will not publish everything requested (no vitriol, darn it). There's vetting but mawky pleas swing the censor, indeed, the vetter seems to boost haywire to keep the mad buying. Is that not a Brit legacy, too? Here's the poop for arrangements (as of 1/96): Reader Notice The New York Times 226 West 43rd Street New York, NY 10036 Vox: 1-800-421-4571 Fax: 201-343-6703 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Bill Stewart Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 17:08:24 +0800 To: cypherpunks@www.video-collage.com Subject: Re: Deriving economic profits from writing FREE software? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980118222710.0083aab0@popd.ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 10:11 PM 1/16/98 -0600, Igor wrote: >However, aside from the psychic benefits, I would like to somehow derive >an economic profit from being a freeware author. So far, I feel that the >status of the author of a popular package does sound good on a resume, but >it is as far as I could get. > >Does anyone else feel the same way? Has anybody come up with a way to >cash in on the free programs that he writes? There's the standard shareware model - ask for $25. There's the Cygnus model - charge money for support. There's the Netscape/McAfee/etc. model - free for personal use, charge money to companies that use it. There's the Eudora model - basic version free, bells&whistles extra. There's the advertising-banner model - the software/service is free, but usage hits an advertising banner in some way that filters money back to you. There are probably a lot more ways to do it as well, but it's a start. Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Adam Back Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 07:49:48 +0800 To: rfarmer@HiWAAY.net Subject: let's do it: NYT ad with hash of fingerprints In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801182321.XAA00251@server.eternity.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Randall Farmer writes: > > > [...] perhaps by looking in the NY Times for 1 Jan 1999 which has a > > > full page ad taken out by Cypherpunks Anonymous with the PGP public > > > keys for the 100 leading cypherpunks. > > > > Pretty expensive and rather unrealistic I suspect. > > The NYT ad? I think that was at least partly a joke (besides, if > some cypherpunks did take out an ad, I'd predict propaganda in 2/3 > of the page and fine-print PGP-key fingerprints in the rest :). I would have thought you would take out a cheap personals section advertisement and print one hash output and a URL. The hash ouput would be the hash of the hashes of a chosen set of public key fingerprints. Say some group of list members ponies up the cost of the ad, and then a list of people wishing to have their key hashed is drawn up. We collect their public keys, post them on the web page, and take out the ad. I would be interested to do this. What do personals ads in the NYT cost? We might also like to think before hand about how to obtain best utility from the hash we publish. We could even offer a key server with a regularly published hash which retained information to inform which subset of keys corresponds to each days hash output advertisement. You may as well include a second hash for a time stamping service hash tree output while you're at it. (Or we could combine the two hashes into one hash). Adam -- Now officially an EAR violation... Have *you* exported RSA today? --> http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/ print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 15:55:18 +0800 To: "'Vladimir Z. Nuri'" Subject: RE: rant on the morality of confidentiality Message-ID: <01BD246B.A7D1FF60@sense-sea-pm3-27.oz.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > dilemmas do not prove a concept does not exist. That's correct. My point is natural selection can explain why the dilemma exists. > there are pretty clear cut cases Natural selection also explains why there are "clear cut" cases, since it assumes our "moral sense" is just our mental accounting of reciprocal altruism: what we've done for others and what (we think) others owe us. > natural selection does however support the idea of altruism. natural > selection does not require each individual seek survival. various aspects > of the genetic code that lead to survival of the species are what are > truly favored. a breed of animals that does nothing but try to kill > each other off leads to a situation where each individual is maximizing > the odds of its own DNA propagating, no? but how long would such a > species survive? and extra credit, to what "animal" am I actually > alluding to here? You are correct: the object is survival of the gene and this can be at odds with survival of an individual. This applies to all animals and even "non" animals; so I have no way of knowing which "animal" you are alluding to. > natural selection is relevant among species that have no intelligence > or intellectual control over their own destiny. it is only relevant to > humans insofar as we wish to behave like animals. Our "intelligence" itself evolved, presumably, because it enhanced genetic fitness in the evolutionary past. Intelligence exists to increase, rather than overcome, inclusice genetic fitness. >>So it is a myth that scientists live to find deep truths or to benefit humanity >>. They may do those things, but their real goal is maximizing their own >>inclusive fitness. > > false, even by your own reasoning, because a scientists DNA does not > necessarily lead to more scientist DNA. sons and daughters of scientists > may be anything they wish to be in a free country. All that is required is that the offspring can survive and reproduce. Scientists use their jobs as "scientists" to fund survival and reproduction. > natural selection among animals. and a pretty scary mind that would > consider us on that level. I agree there are some vague parallels for > human development. but humans do not have children in the mindless way > that animals breed, The use of birth control causes the trait, "conscious desire to have children" (and not use birth control) to be selected. It was not required before, so natural selection gave more weight to sex drive and love of offspring. > nor hopefully do they live their lives according > only to evolutionary instincts, The whole premise of evolutionary psychology is that we live according to evolutionary instincts, it's just that those instincts (and our behavior) are very complex, and that "consciousness" and "free will" are illusions. > but of course letters like yours tend > to make me wonder, and I'm being deliberately ambiguous here by what > I mean by that Of course most people are bothered by the idea that copying genes is the only thing their life (and all lives) are about. Life is totally meaningless if you follow Darwin's logic to its conclusion, and the alternative is religion and belief in the afterlife. I personally believe someday we will see a synthesis of the two, but at the present, which to believe is a philosophical decision. ---------- From: Vladimir Z. Nuri[SMTP:vznuri@netcom.com] Sent: Thursday, January 15, 1998 12:52 PM To: Wayne Radinsky Cc: 'Blanc'; 'cypherpunks@cyberpass.net'; 'tcmay@got.net'; 'vznuri@netcom5.netcom.com'; vznuri@netcom11.netcom.com Subject: Re: rant on the morality of confidentiality philosophers have struggled with what is moral since the beginning of civilization. at least they are struggling with the question. each new civilization and era gives a new answer to the question, "what is morality", and hopefully each is more evolved than the last, unless humanity is regressing. "what is morality" is obviously something that cannot be settled in cyberspace, it hasn't even been settled by great writers, and there are only mediocre and borderline insane minds in cyberspace >The reason morality is impossible to nail down is because it does not exist al >all in any absolute sense, at least as far as science is concerned. If you dec >lare, for example, that "murder" is "wrong" you are always left with dilemmas, >such as whether soldiers who kill during a war are doing something "wrong". dilemmas do not prove a concept does not exist. there are pretty clear cut cases, and less well clear cut cases. those that have difficulty with the concept of morality will tend to focus on the fuzzy cases and conclude that the whole exercise is a waste of time. >According to the principle of natural selection, all people, including scientis >ts, exist purely to maximize their own inclusive genetic fitness. "Fit" means >that an organism is well adapted to it's environment, so "maximizing inclusive >genetic fitness" means having the maximum number of offspring which are themsel >ves fit. natural selection does however support the idea of altruism. natural selection does not require each individual seek survival. various aspects of the genetic code that lead to survival of the species are what are truly favored. a breed of animals that does nothing but try to kill each other off leads to a situation where each individual is maximizing the odds of its own DNA propagating, no? but how long would such a species survive? and extra credit, to what "animal" am I actually alluding to here? >The underlying reason people benefit by promoting themselves as moral people, i >n general, is because of the benefit of what evolutionary psychologists call re >ciprocal altruism. With reciprocal altruism, both parties benefit if they are >in a non-zero-sum situation. Because most situations are non-zero-sum and the >benefits are so great, everyone has a stake in promoting themselves as a good r >eciprocal altruist, in other words, a good, trustworthy, moral person. This is > how natural selection explains the existence of the concept of "morality". natural selection is relevant among species that have no intelligence or intellectual control over their own destiny. it is only relevant to humans insofar as we wish to behave like animals. >So it is a myth that scientists live to find deep truths or to benefit humanity >. They may do those things, but their real goal is maximizing their own inclus >ive fitness. false, even by your own reasoning, because a scientists DNA does not necessarily lead to more scientist DNA. sons and daughters of scientists may be anything they wish to be in a free country. >The only way out is to believe in the afterlife, and religion, and that life ha >s meaning beyond the genes and material world. Doing so doesn't make moral dile >mmas go away, and you never know, people may just be believing such things for >the benefit of genes, after all natural selection has no real concern for "trut >h". natural selection among animals. and a pretty scary mind that would consider us on that level. I agree there are some vague parallels for human development. but humans do not have children in the mindless way that animals breed, nor hopefully do they live their lives according only to evolutionary instincts, but of course letters like yours tend to make me wonder, and I'm being deliberately ambiguous here by what I mean by that From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Adam Back Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 07:49:52 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: proving that one knows how to break RSA In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801182343.XAA00268@server.eternity.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Dimitri Vulis writes: > Bill Payne was with Sandia national lab (where they quite a bit of > crypto work) Bill claims to have discovered a very fast > factorization algorithm using shift registers, which he refuses to > publish. While I haven't seen the algorithm, I believe he may well > be right. Bill Payne's claim to having discovered a faster factorization algorithm than the current state of the art, allows us to invoke the oft discussed mechanisms for the author to prove this ability without divulging the algorithm, and then proceed to sell the algorithm to the highest bidder, whilst minimizing his chances of being killed. I am sure many here remember various past discussions which were based on the "what if" question: one has discovered a fast factorization algorithm and our aims as discoverer are to: - maximise price for selling algorithm - minimise chance of being killed by the NSA to silence one - proving that we posses a fast algorithm Minimising our chances of being killed would seem to rely on: - posting our sale via BlackNet (ie posting anonymously) - having a disclosure mechanism in place which will be invoked on the eventuality of our premature death in an unfortunate `accident' Bill Payne seems to have already blown the first option in disclosing his identity. His dilemma is now that if the highest bidder is the NSA, they may kill him afterwards to prevent a release of the algorithm. This is where a robust disclosure mechanism in event of premature death would be useful. I hope Bill has invested in such a plan. Maximise price for selling algorithm: hold out for the highest bidder. Or perhaps sell to multiple parties with NDAs (would NDAs be sufficient to protect such valuable information?) Are there any reasons why Bill should be refusing to divulge the algorithm? Perhaps he is waiting for a higher bid. What is the current highest bid? What about alternate motives? Perhaps he is not interested in money, but rather in proving NSA incompetence? Or if Bill doesn't in fact have an algorithm, what would be the motives for falsely claiming that he does? Is he working for the NSA to spread FUD? Lastly proving that Bill has a fast algorithm (or acess to some nice hardware at NSA). Several RSA public key challenges are posted and Bill posts the factorization of the public key. There are conveniently pre-published RSA challenges in the form of rsa.com's RSA factoring challenge with multiples of two primes ranging in sizes going up in steps of 10 in decimal digits. It would I think provide best assurance if challenges of both sorts were broken, in that the RSA challenges have been available for some time, and Bill could have been working on RSA 140 for the last 3 years or whatever. So, Bill what size challenge in bits would you like to break first? I'll post one of your desired bit size. Adam -- Now officially an EAR violation... Have *you* exported RSA today? --> http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/ print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 13:29:05 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Interlock Protocol Message-ID: <199801190555.XAA20602@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Hi, The Interlock Protocal (Applied Crypto 2nd. ed., pp. 49) is just exactly what I have been looking for to address the MITM issues in regards the data haven model I have been working on. I had completely forgotten about this technique. I should read AC more often...;) Thanks again for the pointer! ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Kent Crispin Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 16:29:34 +0800 To: Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer Subject: Re: (eternity) Eternity as a secure filesystem/backup medium (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801190625.AAA20771@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <19980119001935.11065@songbird.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Mon, Jan 19, 1998 at 12:25:02AM -0600, Jim Choate wrote: > Forwarded message: > > > Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 21:31:38 -0800 > > From: Kent Crispin > > Subject: Re: (eternity) Eternity as a secure filesystem/backup medium (fwd) > > > You must find the advertising business completely mystifying, then. > > Not at all. I even manage to use it well enough to make money selling my > own services now and again... > > > You pay to have your data disseminated in a form that you can be later > > paid -- for example, leave the juciest part of the data in encrypted > > form, along with a public key through which payment options can be > > negotiated. > > Exactly, which means we are left with two results. Either the source forgoes > the d-h completely, since they could dissiminate their data through a normal > anon remailer and usenet (for example) completely eliminating the whole > point of the d-h and the consequential payments - this reduces their > overhead considerably. Or they share the income through the d-h operator. > Now if the source has two halves of a clue to rub together their share will > include whatever money they paid the d-h operator in the first place - thus > eliminating the need for the source to have paid in the first place. Either > way the source ends up with the net effect they don't pay the d-h operator > for their services - the end user does. In only one case is there a economic > reason for the d-h to exist. Now if the goal of a d-h operator is to make > some income which model would you choose? From the source's perspective the > d-h model makes sense because it places two (not one) layer of anonymity > between them and Mallet. As a source, which model would you choose? > > Either way you look at it, the end result is the end user pays the bills. > > > Why on earth do you try to be an ISP, then? > > Why on earth are you assuming that is what I do? While I have sold dedicated > and intermittent dial-ups they in general have not been to the general > public and my customer base is not one that comes from general advertising. > At no point has it ever been a significant portion of my income in any case. > As a matter of fact I haven't advertised in any public forums. Don't know > where you get your data about me from but you really should go to the horses > mouth instead of some jackass. Your data would be much more accurate. Actually, the only data I have is your comments on CP over the past year or so. -- Kent Crispin, PAB Chair "No reason to get excited", kent@songbird.com the thief he kindly spoke... PGP fingerprint: B1 8B 72 ED 55 21 5E 44 61 F4 58 0F 72 10 65 55 http://songbird.com/kent/pgp_key.html From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 13:43:19 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: Unofficial transcript of Bernstein hearing published In-Reply-To: <199801190451.UAA07568@toad.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain John Gilmore writes: > John Gilmore > Electronic Frontier Foundation Stay the fuck off the unmoderated cypherpunks mailing list, cocksucker. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 13:55:02 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: proving that one knows how to break RSA In-Reply-To: <199801190434.UAA20448@netcom16.netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Vlad the E-mailer writes: > I think this ought to be nipped in the bud right now if not true. I think you ought to be killfiled. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 13:55:19 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: (eternity) Eternity as a secure filesystem/backup medium (fwd) Message-ID: <199801190625.AAA20771@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 21:31:38 -0800 > From: Kent Crispin > Subject: Re: (eternity) Eternity as a secure filesystem/backup medium (fwd) > You must find the advertising business completely mystifying, then. Not at all. I even manage to use it well enough to make money selling my own services now and again... > You pay to have your data disseminated in a form that you can be later > paid -- for example, leave the juciest part of the data in encrypted > form, along with a public key through which payment options can be > negotiated. Exactly, which means we are left with two results. Either the source forgoes the d-h completely, since they could dissiminate their data through a normal anon remailer and usenet (for example) completely eliminating the whole point of the d-h and the consequential payments - this reduces their overhead considerably. Or they share the income through the d-h operator. Now if the source has two halves of a clue to rub together their share will include whatever money they paid the d-h operator in the first place - thus eliminating the need for the source to have paid in the first place. Either way the source ends up with the net effect they don't pay the d-h operator for their services - the end user does. In only one case is there a economic reason for the d-h to exist. Now if the goal of a d-h operator is to make some income which model would you choose? From the source's perspective the d-h model makes sense because it places two (not one) layer of anonymity between them and Mallet. As a source, which model would you choose? Either way you look at it, the end result is the end user pays the bills. > Why on earth do you try to be an ISP, then? Why on earth are you assuming that is what I do? While I have sold dedicated and intermittent dial-ups they in general have not been to the general public and my customer base is not one that comes from general advertising. At no point has it ever been a significant portion of my income in any case. As a matter of fact I haven't advertised in any public forums. Don't know where you get your data about me from but you really should go to the horses mouth instead of some jackass. Your data would be much more accurate. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: ulf@fitug.de (Ulf =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=F6ller?=) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 09:39:19 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Onion routing Message-ID: <19980119013252.18949@ulf.mali.sub.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain To protect against timing analysis, Onion routing uses encrypted and padded links, and the connection between the user and his local onion router is assumed to be secure. Obviously, padding offers protection against external adversaries only. The onion routers themselves know when an anonymous connection is opened, how much data is transferred, and when it is closed. So in contrast to the mix net (where it is sufficient to use one honest mix in a chain), honest onion routers that are used between two cooperating onion routers do not offer additional protection. Onion routers have a fixed number of neighbours. If the first onion router does not have any honest neighbours, there is no anonymity. Generally, the maximal connected component of honest onion routers forms the anonymity set. Does that mean that every onion router needs to maintain many encrypted links, or is there a more efficient solution? From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Adam Back Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 10:43:38 +0800 To: jya@pipeline.com Subject: Re: let's do it: NYT ad with hash of fingerprints (fwd) In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19980119010440.0072a198@pop.pipeline.com> Message-ID: <199801190206.CAA00340@server.eternity.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain John Young writes: > Jim Choate wrote: > >This doesn't provide the same sort of protection the original full page ad > >is supposed to provide. That full page ad will be accessible as a reference > >a hundred years from now in just about every library in the country. The > >link to a webpage won't be. If the keys aren't easily obtainable, the hash of them is no use either, so we are already relying on the availability of other text. If the information was valued people would keep copies and mirrors. They could for example post it to the eternity service if/when a viable service is realised. I viewed it more as a way to strengthen the web of trust rather than an expensive long term paper based web server. I think it would be ok for our purposes to omit a URL, firstly because URLs don't always last that long, and secondly because we want to reference the publication, but aren't really bothered about having the application reference us. > Printed ads are sometimes not archived as widely as news articles, due > to the cost of reproduction, distribution and storage. > > The same is true, though, of personals and other types of throwaways. Oh. Not so good. > One possibility is to buy an ad on the NYT Front Page which is often > sent as an image around the world separately from the full paper, > and on which one can buy a tiny ad for about $800 for two lines of > text 32 characters long (ID must be included). That's the rate for a > one-timer. Well theoretically we could go for 32 characters for a MD5 hash output only. SHA1 would be better at 40 characters. (We could brute force a hash length reduction and maybe claw back 4 characters at an expected cost of 2^32 hash runs). The printed hash could be the output of the hash function run on a text document including the keys which we mirror in various places. We can include any text we want to authenticate in this document, keys, time stamp hash tree outputs, URLs, mailing list addresses, whatever. > Adam, could you reduce the requisite gob to fit 64 characters? Each extra > line runs about $300. We are at 40 characters for an SHA1 output, or maybe only 32 characters with a bit of brute-forcing. What do you mean that you must include ID? Someone must give an email address, or phone number? Should be ok to fit one of those in the remaining 24 - 32 chars. Or a URL. "jya.com" easy. > However, bear in mind that a news article is cheaper and will be > archived for eternity (until Asteroid Endall); cheaper, that is, if > you can pukedrunk a reviler. Doesn't sound news-worthy itself. Adam From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Mix Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 18:54:31 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199801191041.CAA21251@sirius.infonex.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Timothy C. May sits at his terminal dressed in five-inch stiletto heels, fishnet stockings, a gold-lame mini-skirt, a purple halter with girdle underneath to keep in his flabby gut, a Fredericks of Hollywood padded bra also underneath the halter, a cheap Naomi Sims pink afro wig, waiting to yank his crank whenever a black man responds to one of his inane rants. \ o/\_ Timothy C. May <\__,\ '\, | From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "William H. Geiger III" Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 20:33:52 +0800 To: Ryan Lackey Subject: Re: RSA hardware In-Reply-To: <199801191102.GAA01363@the-great-machine.mit.edu> Message-ID: <199801191243.HAA28745@users.invweb.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Ryan Lackey Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 19:11:30 +0800 To: Lucky Green Subject: Re: RSA hardware In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19980119015700.0073e558@netcom10.netcom.com> Message-ID: <199801191102.GAA01363@the-great-machine.mit.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Lucky Green: > The more I think about it, the less sense it makes to me to use a dedicated > hardware accelerator. I have seen $3,000 hardware accelerators that are > outperformed by a PP200. The nCipher device is excellent. 100 1024 bit RSA > signing a minute for $5,000. How much would be a nice multi-processor Alpha > that does about the same number of signings? Or just a stack 10 of Pentiums? > > Before buying an accelerator, make sure to do the math. Eric Young posted > timings for various common CPU's a while back. Keep in mind that there are metrics other than just keys per second for comparison. Often, hardware devices are certified RED/BLACK isolation devices, TEMPEST certified, tamper-resistant, etc. They are also usually easier to maintain than software systems on GP hardware. Also, the major consumers of such devices, the government/military, spend a *lot* more on hardware/software/user maintenance than any cypherpunk. Their computers are usually TEMPEST certified, etc., so their curve is a lot higher up. Assuming efficient markets, the reason so few of these devices are sold outside the military is that they're overpriced except for those in the same situation as the military. though :) I've been thinking of buying a wicked-fast FPGA prototyping board and making my own coprocessor. There are some really nice gate arrays, and David Honig has some fairly wonderful plans for how to use them for things like Blowfish, etc. I've mainly concentrated on high-speed symmetric ciphers, but they'd be applicable to RSA/DH, I believe. For one blowfish implementation, the limiting factor (assuming key setup can be done efficiently) is the PCI bus, I think. - -- Ryan Lackey rdl@mit.edu http://mit.edu/rdl/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQEVAwUBNMMyzKwefxtEUY69AQGruwgAgsJTym5TsaFLVGgBXQQpUYwd8Ar2lquU SFM9F1LYLTQjcBIlzh9h3cQdfE2sOkpjENmVGqUvPhyZLwRAC5eWfHL8H/y0giIW 9Y+1xYY1pY3t/O7w5WgYDwye1fzbL5KDz4XEYKX830LWjShfAZhQxahzLbZd+qnd Z6KpjSnylTb9YSp+i5rafgk/i8GnjqFdv5925reexzFBhy/FQi3xwweJWxeRWa+o tNX4G/D7W2r1Lq4Z6Yxbk3dTDddif26UTE12M8EENhhlr/6VCO0zGI59VePUC55w ZeqgUDGviqe/il1EUMIKUfNdSYBJ0Ur5T4TL2lVYDPrZ6q4KjnHPjA== =9ejF -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "wayne clerke" Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 10:29:08 +0800 To: "Lance Cottrell" Subject: RE: FCPUNX:Anonymous IRC (was 'Cypherpunks IRC Christmas Eve Party') In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801191015.GAA19793@ns2.emirates.net.ae> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > -----Original Message----- > From: Lance Cottrell [mailto:loki@infonex.com] > Sent: Saturday, January 03, 1998 5:08 AM > To: wayne clerke; cypherpunks@cyberpass.net > Subject: Re: FCPUNX:Anonymous IRC (was 'Cypherpunks IRC Christmas Eve > Party') [...] > >What's the reason behind the policy direction against the use of personal web > >proxies running in a (paid for) shell account? > >Seems like less risk than you already accept anyway. Something I've missed? > > > > System load is the issue in this case. If a proxy becomes publicly known > the load it imposes on the system could quickly become gigantic. In > addition we found that people were setting up proxies on any old port, > sometimes causing all kinds of conflicts. > > Our accounts are priced assuming light personal usage. Running servers on > our systems is negotiable. It seems this was just stated on the list for advertizing purposes. It's not so negotiable that private emails are responded to. > > -Lance > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Lance Cottrell loki@infonex.com > PGP 2.6 key available by finger or server. > http://www.infonex.com/~loki/ Mail: Wayne Clerke PGP key id: AEB2546D F/P: D663D11EDA19D74F5032DC7EE001B702 PGP key id: 57AA1C10 F/P: 9926BF8918B7EB3623A7 AFA46572C5B857AA1C10 PGP mail welcome. Voice: +971 506 43 4853 If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much space. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "William H. Geiger III" Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 20:52:03 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Re: Barry Smith (FBI) to speak on encryption policy Message-ID: <199801191304.IAA28944@users.invweb.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Anyone going to this? ------------------------------------------------------------------------- The following message is forwarded to you by "William H. Geiger III" (listed as the From user of this message). The original sender (see the header, below) was "Dr. Alan Sherman" and has been set as the "Reply-To" field of this message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >From: "Dr. Alan Sherman" >Newsgroups: sci.crypt >Subject: Barry Smith (FBI) to speak on encryption policy >Date: 19 Jan 1998 01:54:28 -0000 >Organization: University of Maryland, Baltimore County Campus >Lines: 55 >Message-ID: <69ubok$lkn@news.umbc.edu> >NNTP-Posting-Host: news.umbc.edu >NNTP-Posting-User: sherman >Path: edison.dotstar.net!pull-feed.internetmci.com!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!204.59.152.222!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!feeder.qis.net!news.umbc.edu!not-for-mail The UMBC Security Technology Research Group presents A Law-Enforcement Perspective on Encryption Policy Barry Smith Supervisory Special Agent, FBI moderated by journalist Peter Wayner 3:30pm - 5:00pm Friday, March 6, 1998 Lecture Hall V (LOCATION SUBJECT TO CHANGE) University of Maryland, Baltimore County http://www.cs.umbc.edu/events/spring98/crypto.shtml The second lecture and discussion in a two-part forum on encryption policy. Journalist Peter Wayner will introduce and moderate the event, which is free and open to the public. In Part I, freedom activist John Gilmore and Fritz Fielding (Ex-Associate General Councel, NSA) gave their divergent views, focusing on the Burnstein case. Barry Smith will articulate the needs of law enforcement to conduct lawful wiretaps; he will advocate the use of key-recovery techniques to achieve this end as a way that provides adequate privacy to law-abiding citizens. Schedule: The event will begin with a brief (10 minute) introduction by Peter Wayner. Following Barry Smith's talk, which will last approximately 45 minutes, there will be an opportunity to ask questions for approximately 20-30 minutes. Questions: Attendees are encouraged to ask questions in advance by sending email to sherman@cs.umbc.edu Directions: Take Exit #47B off interstate I-95 and follow signs to UMBC. LH V is on the 100-level of the Engineering Computer Science (ECS) Building, directly behind the University Center. There is a visitor's parking lot near the I-95 entrance to UMBC. Host: Dr. Alan T. Sherman Associate Professor, Computer Science sherman@cs.umbc.edu http://www.umbc.edu (410) 455-2666 This event is held in cooperation with the UMBC Intellectual Sports Council Honors College Phi Beta Kappa honors society CMSC Council of Majors IFSM Council of Majors ----------------------------------------------------- -- End of forwarded message ----------------------------------------------------- -- --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html --------------------------------------------------------------- Tag-O-Matic: One man's Windows are another man's walls. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Raph Levien Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 23:05:53 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: List of reliable remailers Message-ID: <199801191450.GAA23358@kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I operate a remailer pinging service which collects detailed information about remailer features and reliability. To use it, just finger remailer-list@kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu There is also a Web version of the same information, plus lots of interesting links to remailer-related resources, at: http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~raph/remailer-list.html This information is used by premail, a remailer chaining and PGP encrypting client for outgoing mail. For more information, see: http://www.c2.org/~raph/premail.html For the PGP public keys of the remailers, finger pgpkeys@kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu This is the current info: REMAILER LIST This is an automatically generated listing of remailers. The first part of the listing shows the remailers along with configuration options and special features for each of the remailers. The second part shows the 12-day history, and average latency and uptime for each remailer. You can also get this list by fingering remailer-list@kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu. $remailer{'cyber'} = ' alpha pgp'; $remailer{"mix"} = " cpunk mix pgp hash latent cut ek ksub reord ?"; $remailer{"replay"} = " cpunk mix pgp hash latent cut post ek"; $remailer{"jam"} = " cpunk mix pgp hash middle latent cut ek"; $remailer{"winsock"} = " cpunk pgp pgponly hash cut ksub reord ?"; $remailer{'nym'} = ' newnym pgp'; $remailer{"squirrel"} = " cpunk mix pgp pgponly hash latent cut ek"; $remailer{'weasel'} = ' newnym pgp'; $remailer{"reno"} = " cpunk mix pgp hash middle latent cut ek reord ?"; $remailer{"cracker"} = " cpunk mix remix pgp hash ksub esub latent cut ek reord post"; $remailer{'redneck'} = ' newnym pgp'; $remailer{"bureau42"} = " cpunk mix pgp ksub hash latent cut ek"; $remailer{"neva"} = " cpunk pgp pgponly hash cut ksub ?"; $remailer{"lcs"} = " mix"; $remailer{"medusa"} = " mix middle" $remailer{"McCain"} = " mix middle"; $remailer{"valdeez"} = " cpunk pgp pgponly hash ek"; $remailer{"arrid"} = " cpunk pgp pgponly hash ek"; $remailer{"hera"} = " cpunk pgp pgponly hash ek"; $remailer{"htuttle"} = " cpunk pgp hash latent cut post ek"; catalyst@netcom.com is _not_ a remailer. lmccarth@ducie.cs.umass.edu is _not_ a remailer. usura@replay.com is _not_ a remailer. remailer@crynwr.com is _not_ a remailer. There is no remailer at relay.com. Groups of remailers sharing a machine or operator: (cyber mix reno winsock) (weasel squirrel medusa) (cracker redneck) (nym lcs) (valdeez arrid hera) This remailer list is somewhat phooey. Go check out http://www.publius.net/rlist.html for a good one. Last update: Thu 23 Oct 97 15:48:06 PDT remailer email address history latency uptime ----------------------------------------------------------------------- hera goddesshera@juno.com ------------ 5:03:45 99.86% nym config@nym.alias.net +*#**#**### :34 95.82% redneck config@anon.efga.org #*##*+#**** 2:00 95.44% mix mixmaster@remail.obscura.com +++ ++++++* 19:18 95.27% squirrel mix@squirrel.owl.de -- ---+--- 2:34:19 95.16% cyber alias@alias.cyberpass.net *++***+ ++ 11:26 95.11% replay remailer@replay.com **** *** 10:06 94.93% arrid arrid@juno.com ----.------ 8:50:34 94.41% bureau42 remailer@bureau42.ml.org --------- 3:38:29 93.53% cracker remailer@anon.efga.org + +*+*+*+ 16:32 92.80% jam remailer@cypherpunks.ca + +*-++++ 24:14 92.79% winsock winsock@rigel.cyberpass.net -..-..---- 9:59:18 92.22% neva remailer@neva.org ------****+ 1:03:02 90.39% valdeez valdeez@juno.com 4:58:22 -36.97% reno middleman@cyberpass.net 1:01:28 -2.65% History key * # response in less than 5 minutes. * * response in less than 1 hour. * + response in less than 4 hours. * - response in less than 24 hours. * . response in more than 1 day. * _ response came back too late (more than 2 days). cpunk A major class of remailers. Supports Request-Remailing-To: field. eric A variant of the cpunk style. Uses Anon-Send-To: instead. penet The third class of remailers (at least for right now). Uses X-Anon-To: in the header. pgp Remailer supports encryption with PGP. A period after the keyword means that the short name, rather than the full email address, should be used as the encryption key ID. hash Supports ## pasting, so anything can be put into the headers of outgoing messages. ksub Remailer always kills subject header, even in non-pgp mode. nsub Remailer always preserves subject header, even in pgp mode. latent Supports Matt Ghio's Latent-Time: option. cut Supports Matt Ghio's Cutmarks: option. post Post to Usenet using Post-To: or Anon-Post-To: header. ek Encrypt responses in reply blocks using Encrypt-Key: header. special Accepts only pgp encrypted messages. mix Can accept messages in Mixmaster format. reord Attempts to foil traffic analysis by reordering messages. Note: I'm relying on the word of the remailer operator here, and haven't verified the reord info myself. mon Remailer has been known to monitor contents of private email. filter Remailer has been known to filter messages based on content. If not listed in conjunction with mon, then only messages destined for public forums are subject to filtering. Raph Levien From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: John Young Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 21:03:06 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: proving that one knows how to break RSA Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980119125838.0074591c@pop.pipeline.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Anonymous wrote: >Oh, please. Payne's so-called faster factorization algorithm was >discussed on this list May 13. See the archives under the thread title >"Public Key Break Paper". The algorithm is total garbage. Payne is >obviously a nut case who is setting himself up for a contempt of court >charge. We posted the notice about Payne's RSA paper. There's an archive of his (and fellow Sandian Art Morales') NSA suit and links to his papers : http://jya.com/whpfiles.htm Perhaps Bill's a nut case, and if so, he's probably a bellweather of other disaffected researchers in classified work who are being trashed for refusing to continue Cold War violations beyond the original conditions for signing secrecy agreements, and who are being ostracized by those who want the perks to continue. What folks like Payne are going to do with what they learned about what the USG has been up to is a good question. And what the USG will do to them if they start to tell is more so. That's what Payne's NSA suit is about, and it may be more consequential than the all-too-sane Bernstein, Karn and Junger suits. That will depend on what Payne chooses to reveal in spite of secrecy agreements. We may never know what Bill knows about faulty cryptography if DOE settles with him and Morales. Alternatively, he confesses to a fear of flying, for the reasons Dimitri states, based on what he says he knows of the insane accusations and actions of the TLAs when their own comfort and security is threatened by an ex-insider. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Robert Hettinga Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 00:01:43 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Fwd: FYI: Jefferson Club: "A World of Strong Privacy: Promises and Perils of Encryption" Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain --- begin forwarded text Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 15:58:21 -0800 To: mac crypto list From: Vinnie Moscaritolo Subject: Fwd: FYI: Jefferson Club: "A World of Strong Privacy: Promises and Perils of Encryption" Sender: Precedence: Bulk >>The Jefferson Club is proud to present: >>David Friedman, Professor of Law at Santa Clara University >>to speak on >>"A World of Strong Privacy: Promises and Perils of Encryption" >> >>Luncheon >>Wednesday, February 25th >>12:00 noon >>Ming's Villa in Palo Alto >> >>Reserve your place at http://www.ipser.com/jeffersonclub. >> >>A major theme in discussions of the influence of technology on society has >>been the computer as a threat to privacy. It now appears that the truth is >>precisely opposite. Three technologies associated with computers, public key >>encryption, networking, and virtual reality, are in the process of giving us >>a level of privacy never known before. The U.S. government is currently >>intervening in an attempt, not to protect privacy, but to prevent it. >> >>Professor Friedman will explain the technologies and demonstrate that current >>developments, if they continue, will produce a world of strong privacy, a >>world >>in which large parts of our lives are technologically protected from the >>observation of others. He will discuss the likely consequences, >>attractive and >>unattractive, of that change and provide a brief account of attempts by >>the U.S. >>government to prevent or control the rise of privacy. >> >>For a preview of the talk, see "A World of Strong Privacy: Promises and >>Perils of >>Encryption" >>(http://www.best.com/~ddfr/Academic/Strong_Privacy/Strong_Privacy.html) >>Come prepared with questions for Professor Friedman. >> >>For more information or to reserve your place, visit: >>http://www.ipser.com/jeffersonclub >> > > >_ Vinnie Moscaritolo http://www.vmeng.com/vinnie/ Fingerprint: 3F903472C3AF622D5D918D9BD8B100090B3EF042 "You can get a lot more with a smile and a gun then a smile, alone." - Al Capone --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/ Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Anonymous Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 17:25:45 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: proving that one knows how to break RSA Message-ID: <199801190915.KAA15874@basement.replay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Dimitri Vulis writes: > Adam Back writes: > > Dimitri Vulis writes: > > > Bill Payne was with Sandia national lab (where they quite a bit of > > > crypto work) Bill claims to have discovered a very fast > > > factorization algorithm using shift registers, which he refuses to > > > publish. While I haven't seen the algorithm, I believe he may well > > > be right. > > > > Bill Payne's claim to having discovered a faster factorization > > algorithm than the current state of the art, allows us to invoke the > > oft discussed mechanisms for the author to prove this ability without > > divulging the algorithm, and then proceed to sell the algorithm to the > > highest bidder, whilst minimizing his chances of being killed. > ... > I believe Bill is genuinely afraid that if he published his algorithm, > then he'll be killed. I don't know enough to judge how realistic his > fear is. I've been involved in serious discussions of assassinations > over smaller amounts of money than is at stake here. He displays great > courage by saying anything at all at this point. Oh, please. Payne's so-called faster factorization algorithm was discussed on this list May 13. See the archives under the thread title "Public Key Break Paper". The algorithm is total garbage. Payne is obviously a nut case who is setting himself up for a contempt of court charge. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Lucky Green Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 17:33:53 +0800 To: Ulf Möller Subject: Re: Onion routing In-Reply-To: <19980119013252.18949@ulf.mali.sub.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Mon, 19 Jan 1998, Ulf [iso-8859-1] Möller wrote: > Does that mean that every onion router needs to maintain many > encrypted links, or is there a more efficient solution? To get any meaningful security, the user has to control the first OR. Furthermore, it must be impossible to discern indiviual messages, meaning connections being opened or closed. Which requires Pipenet, possibly the worst bandwidth burner ever invented. :-) -- Lucky Green PGP v5 encrypted email preferred. "Tonga? Where the hell is Tonga? They have Cypherpunks there?" From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 03:22:42 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: On the LAM--Local Area Mixes In-Reply-To: <19980119013252.18949@ulf.mali.sub.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain SUMMARY This post is about "lumping" of mix nodes to get a lot more mixing bandwidth while also protecting against court-ordered seizures and subpoenas. The idea is to have a dozen or more fairly cheap mix machines in several apartments or offices connected with high-speed links, running protocols not feasible over more expensive T1 and T3 sorts of links between physically distant locations. Think of these concentrations as Local Areas Mixes, or LAMs. BACKGROUND Early in the history of Cypherpunks, one of our schemes was to drastically increase the number of nodes in the mix network by having many machines at one physical site talking to each other at high speed over local networks. A message would enter the physical site, bounce around to N machines, and exit, perhaps going to other machines and sites, and back again, etc. (The image was of perhaps 20 or 30 cheap PCs linked with Ethernet in a set of apartments in Berkeley--obtaining search warrants or court orders to allow monitoring of all 20 or 30 machines, scattered across several physical addresses, would be "problematic.") (This is still not a bad idea....lots of additional mixing entropy can be gained this way, plus increased resistance against compromise of a single remailer. Plus lots of headaches for any Scientologists or Christian Crusaders or B'nai Brithers trying to shut down speech they don't like.) Obviously, a list of machine names and public keys would have to be kept current (modulo the frequency with which machines go down). (BTW, how do Mixmaster users actually decide which remaielers are reliable enough to use? Or have the delays they wish? Do they use R. Levien's regular report, or hit his URL?) REMAILER MATH MODEL IS STILL LACKING I don't believe anyone has publically analyzed "remailer math" in the detail we would've expected by now. That is, analyzed the security (against traceability) of having N nodes for M users communicating with remailers having some operational model (number of messages in mix, "latency" (!), etc.). We have commented for at least several years that this would make a nice thesis for someone. I would've expected that this would by now be a respectable research topic for "Crypto" papers. (Much of the "analysis" of remailers has been of the seat-of-the-pants type, with K mesages in a mix and X bounces allgegedly leading to K ^ X messages to be followed. But this analysis neglects correlation analysis of sent/received messages, the pitiful number of messages flowing in the overall network at any given time, and a bunch of other more subtle effects. If Alice and Bob are using a remailer network to communicate, and if an adversary has access to the packets flowing through the remailer network--a big if--then statisical and probabalistic analysis can perhaps reduce the entropies greatly. A better model is needed.) Eric Hughes has expressed similar concerns, and presented a few tantalizing details of how traceability can be extracted from mix networks using Bayesian types of correlation analyses. (Alice and Bob being identified as communicants through the patterns of sent and received packets, regardless of the mixing between them.) My reason for mentioning this here is that I think a more detailed analysis of mix networks and the entropy and decorrelation seen would show the advantages of having drastically more nodes, with various PipeNet and BlackNet sorts of protocols running. MAKING THE BEST USE OF BANDWIDTH One of the motivations for the idea of having a lot of small machines at some site is this: to reduce the network bandwidths needed for PipeNet sorts of approaches. Imagine this scenario. Concrete numbers are picked for easier visualization. A set of offices in Berkeley has 20 low-cost machines running in 5 offices, the offices being owned or leased by several organizations or individuals, all legally separated. The 20 machines are all running either fixed bandwidth (a la PipeNet) connections, or connections which never physically leave the building and which can be inspected for taps. Additional shielding of the cables might be a nice touch....optical fibers an even nicer touch, as the tapping methods I know of require physical access to the fiber, to do a tunnelling tap, or an actual break-and-splice. Ideally, all or some of the boxes should be TEMPEST-protected, and/or tamper-resistant. I believe a sub-$500 cheap PC--with a 150 MHz Pentium--could be "hardened" with $200 worth of additional copper or mu metal sheeting, placement inside larger metal boxes, whatever. Or 10 such machines could cheaply be placed in a locked Faraday cage, with a good lock on the door and video cameras and such used for surveillance against black bag jobs. (*) In other words, this network of mixes could be made very secure against nearly all attackers. "All attackers" is a dangerous description, but I think the costs of attacking the network undetectably could be made to cost a prohibitive amount.... (* Though I tend to dislike PR stunts, imagine a "WebCam" aimed continuously at this physical site, this Faraday cage, with a clock inside ticking away, and maybe even a mechanical clock with clearly moving parts, all so that an attacker could not easily spoof the image by replacing the camera scene. This could generate interesting PR, as people "check the security" of the site, and also get some education.) MORE SUCH SUB-NETWORKS IN OTHER COUNTRIES Now imagine the same sort of network of low-cost machines running in, say, Amsterdam. With a fairly low bandwith connection to the Berkeley network. (That is, not a leased line, just _regular_ usage of a normal link. For example, a 100K packet attempted to be sent every 30 seconds or so, round the clock. Exact details are not import...the idea being that external watchers cannot detect patterns in the packet usage, a la PipeNet.) There is, of course, no reason packets cannot also be bounced out to other mixes, as selected by the user. And the sites in Berkeley and Amsterdam, and elsewhere, may of course add their own bounces (as we all know, this is always acceptable (*), and does not require the original sender to be involved). (* modulo reliability issues--if additional links are added, they must not degrade overall realiability) The original sender, Alice, of course will have complete say over the basic routing, as it is she who selects the routing and constructs the chain of encryptions. The idea of conglomerating mix nodes into physically close spaces is not to take away any of her freedom to choose, but only to solve the bandwidth and surveillance problems, by allowing her to bounce her message amongst 20 machines in one site, bounce it to some remailers she chooses, bounce it around to some sites she likes, and so on. CHALLENGES FOR ATTACKERS An attacker seeking to shut down the remailer sites will have a formidable challenge: -- court orders applicable to one apartment or office presumably will not apply to other offices or addresses. (Drug dealers often have stored drugs in one apartment while dealing them from another, using a "rat line" to move the drugs between apartments. Last I heard, search warrants cannot cover whatever sites raiders decide to pick....this may've changed with the recent Supreme Court. In any case, a "cyberspace rat line" can include wires snaking all throughout a large building, making any search warrant focussed on a specific address or person not applicable to sites in other parts of the building. Or in other buildings completely (but still connected with high-bandwidth lines). -- the machines in various locations should not have their locations noted. (For example, the "Medusa mix" should not be identified, at least not in general, as being upstairs in the Citizens for a Constitutional Process offices. There is no "need to know" such things, and this makes "propagation of search warrants" all the more problematic. ) -- the routing topology of the site may be an interesting area to look at. Ideally, a "Linda"-like broadcast topology (all machines see all packets, like messages in a bottle thrown into the "sea") could have certain advantages, analogous completely to a message pool or Blacknet topology. (This would make propagation of subpoenas vastly more difficult.) -- again, in a physically close space, such high-bandwith methods are easier to implement than in a physically spread out space (where bandwidth costs a lot more). RICO? On the other hand, while ordinary subpoenas might be difficult to spread across all of the machines, the clustering of many machines in one region might be seen as a "conspiracy" to do something the Authorities don't like, and thus be a RICO (Racketeer-Influenced and Corrupt Organizations, of course) violation. It might be the Mother of all Steve Jackson Games Raids, but one could imagine Unhappy Authorities seizing _all_ machines. (There are aspects of the ECPA which may mitigate against this, though. A la the Alcor case in Riverside, CA, 10 years ago.) NEW TOPOLOGIES AND BETTER USE OF BANDWIDTH Purists will point out that there is nothing that a network of N machines in some physically close location cannot do that those same N machines scattered in multiple legal and national jurisdictions cannot do just as well. Well, except for a few things: A. Bandwidth. Local machines can be connected with PipeNet sorts of connections, with vast amounts of cheap bandwidth. B. Security against Tampering or Surveillance. While it may be possible for NSA packet sniffers at major routing points to sniff mix traffic (recall the work of Shimomura on sniffers, and the increasing concentration of packets at the half dozen biggest network routing nodes, like MAE West), local LANs are resistant to such sniffings. And to physical taps. (These dangers will be lessened if we ever get to where all machine to machine traffic is routinely encrypted, a la SWAN, but we're not there yet by any strech.) C. New Topologies. Message pools, Linda-like "seas," and PipeNet are all more feasible on such LAMs. As with the brain, which as multiple levels of organization, an overall mix network consisting of subnetworks and clusterings probably offers a richer set of behaviors than just one overall loosely-couple set of mix nodes. (I haven't mentioned this, but a LAM could be used for some very high-bandwith mixing, like audio telephony and even video....modulo the Alice-Bob correlation attacks I mentioned earlier.) Anyway, I ought to stop for now. There are a lot more things to mention, and issues to resolve. But I think we need to once again consider such strategies. Having some very high bandwidth "local mix networks" opens up some interesting possibilities. Running PipeNet and BlackNet sorts of systems locally, for example. Making issuance and serving of subpoenas very problematic, for another example. Your thoughts are welcome. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Adam Back Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 04:32:34 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: proving that one knows how to break RSA In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801191148.LAA00798@server.eternity.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Dimitri Vulis writes: > I believe Bill [Payne] is genuinely afraid that if he published his > algorithm, then he'll be killed. I don't know enough to judge how > realistic his fear is. There are a few other scenarios which suggest he may be at risk even if he doesn't publish. Firstly if we argue on the basis that he does have a fast algorithm: - if the NSA thinks they already know the algorithm he has discovered, they may kill him anyway to prevent disclosure to others - the NSA may kidnap him, inject him with various truth drugs, and generally torture the information from him, and then kill him Insurance in the form of a disclosure procedure in the event of his premature death will reduce his risk of being killed. Secondly if we argue on the basis that Bill doesn't have a fast factoring algorithm, or is mistaken about the complexity of his algorith: - if the NSA thinks his claim credible they may again kidnap him and attempt to extract this algorithm from him. They may then kill him to prevent him talking about them torturing him if he reveals an algorithm, or appears not to have an algorithm He appears to be in greater risk if falsely claiming he has a fast algorithm if his claim appears credible to the NSA -- his insurance in the form of a fall back public disclosure procedure in event of his premature death no longer helps him. In general it seems generally a dangerous claim to make. > I've been involved in serious discussions of assassinations over > smaller amounts of money than is at stake here. He displays great > courage by saying anything at all at this point. If it is true, it is a big deal indeed. > Yes, it would be most interesting/impressive if Bill demonstrated his > ability to factor using some of the published chalenges. Another target Bill might be amused to factor if we can obtain it is the NSA's public key embedded in lotus notes implementations. Should fit in with his interest in showing incompetence on the part of the NSA. Adam -- Now officially an EAR violation... Have *you* exported RSA today? --> http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/ print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 00:54:24 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: More Software Controls Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980119165256.00b68668@pop.pipeline.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Denise Caruso reports today in the NYT on upcoming copyright legislation that would prohibit circumventing any copyright protection on digital works. Quote: Many products on the market would qualify for circumvention devices. These include software that allows systems managers to gain access to computers when users lose their passwords and any device used to test the strength of computer security -- products that cannot be tested without trying to break protection technology. There's also a report on The WWW Consortium's vote a few days ago to include the PICS standard for Web infrastructure and the vote's import for censorship. The report notes that technologists are now making decisions about public policy once dominated by lawyers, and defending the self-serving practice much the same: it's for the public good. http://www.nytimes.com From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Steve Schear Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 07:04:30 +0800 To: Adam Back Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >When people can buy a T1 to their house for Ł2,000/yr instead of >Ł20,000, we will stand a better chance. A few U.S. ISPs are offering xDSL at $600/mo. My local cable network, in Las Vegas, is offering bi-directinal T1 rates, with a guaranteed LOS, at $600/mo. Once these technologies get rolling, in a year ot two, rates are likely to drop below $200/mo. --Steve From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 05:39:37 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Re: Congress' *real* job... In-Reply-To: <19980119202001.27861.qmail@nym.alias.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 12:20 PM -0800 1/19/98, lcs Mixmaster Remailer wrote: >Be careful what you wish for. This Congress is far more likely to pass >amendments nullifying the 2nd, the 1st, the 6th, the 4th, and others. And >they'll probably rewrite the 13th to read "no involuntary servitude...unless >we say so." Indeed. The last thing we need is a "Constitutional Convention." Very few liberties would survive a vote by the herd and their designated top steers. We already have growing restrictions on the First ("hate speech"), an almost complete gutting of the Second (bans on guns, licensing, confiscations), and the Fourth has become a joke (try reciting the 4th to the ninja raiders bursting into your bedroom at 4 a.m., with no knocks and no presentation of a search warrant). I guess we're still protected from troops being quartered in our homes, though. (But look at the emergency powers FEMA has acquired and notice that hotels, offices, and even private homes may in fact be comandeered in an increasing number of situations.) As for the 13th, if "the draft" (forced conscription of young men to be cannon fodder, to help rebuild inner cities burned down by residents, to "be all that they can be") is not involuntary servitude, what is? And if the forcible placement of persons with certain genetic backgrounds into concentration camps during World War II was not involuntary servitude, what is? And if the sequestration of 18 innocent citizens in a special hotel for the 10 months of a bullshit trial is not involuntary servitude, what is? (The jurors each did about the same time O.J. did, and collectivelly, 15 times more.) And if the imprisonment of some for eating an unapproved food item or for the growing of an unapproved crop is not involuntary servitude, what is? (And I don't necessarily mean drugs, although marijuana was of course grown and consumed by Jefferson, Washington, etc. I could also be referring to the various farm laws which "regulate" who can grow peanuts, who can grow rice, and how much, etc. "Grow a peanut, go to jail.") And if working for the government for the first six months of every year ("tax freedom day" is now in June) is not involuntary servitude, what is? With perhaps locally good intentions for each of these various laws, this creaping featurism of American government has vitiated the original Bill of Rights. Not completely, but getting there. The Founders and their friends in the colonies would be shocked to learn that half of all earnings go to fund various government boondoggles, that the "King's Men" are free to raid homes in pre-dawn hours without presenting the occupants with search warrants, that various Emergency Powers have been acquired (though not constitutionally) by the Executive to seize control of transportation, communication, production, and distribution systems, and that persons of certain ethnic makeup can be imprisoned for several years without due process. They would call for the nuking of Washington as the first step in the New American Revolution. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Ray Arachelian Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 02:46:02 +0800 To: platypus@acmeonline.net Subject: Re: (eternity) Re: remailer resistancs to attack In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Mon, 19 Jan 1998, ? the Platypus {aka David Formosa} wrote: > How would this be implermented. If you are able to trace backwards so you > know who to notify then you don't have anonminity. It could be done if the remailer software is rewritten. When you send a message, include instructions for the last remailer to write a message to either usenet or a web page on the same net as the remailer with a sender selected id. Have these pooled and posted every day/week, etc... If your mail bounces it you'll know by reading a page off a server, or a message off usenet... i.e. for the last one in the chain ::Request bounce "xyzzy12345" Dont post anything other than the bounce strings to the world. (i.e. don't post the intended recipient's name, etc...) =====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos============== .+.^.+.| Ray Arachelian |Prying open my 3rd eye. So good to see |./|\. ..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were |/\|/\ <--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run |\/|\/ ../|\..| "A toast to Odin, |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/. .+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were.... |..... ======================= http://www.sundernet.com ========================== From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "William H. Geiger III" Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 04:02:31 +0800 To: Tim May Subject: RICO & Seizures (Was: Re: On the LAM--Local Area Mixes) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801192011.PAA32294@users.invweb.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In , on 01/19/98 at 11:13 AM, Tim May said: >RICO? >On the other hand, while ordinary subpoenas might be difficult to spread >across all of the machines, the clustering of many machines in one region >might be seen as a "conspiracy" to do something the Authorities don't >like, and thus be a RICO (Racketeer-Influenced and Corrupt Organizations, >of course) violation. It might be the Mother of all Steve Jackson Games >Raids, but one could imagine Unhappy Authorities seizing _all_ machines. >(There are aspects of the ECPA which may mitigate against this, though. A >la the Alcor case in Riverside, CA, 10 years ago.) Awhile back I recall reading something about about equipment confication and that the governemnt was prohibited from conficating the equipment of a publisher (ie the FED's can't walk in and shut down the NYT by taking their printing presses). Can anyone confirm that such a protection exsists? References to any relevent court cases would be appreciated. Also any information reguarding on what qualifications one must meet to qualify for such protection. Perhaps we could set up a CP/Mixmaster newsletter and at least keep the SOB's from stealing the equipment. :) - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- Tag-O-Matic: He who laughs last uses OS/2. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a-sha1 Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBNMOhtY9Co1n+aLhhAQF4eAQAgSi9+MTLfq5nFjc+Yz5FzVh+dpL5I5Hv //EetqhieKyB3o2TzR7B8t1GyJcNKpDYp1N9n+bQ8yjYzffR2M+3p3p3kVPFpQ5S Zx4L6mEpn9rUoKNDz4YgcXbrpMzenWw20Rxg4XywmtDAoPReK75JxGskJZQUpqSc ykDrukOiQBg= =hO3/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Eric Blossom Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 06:42:42 +0800 To: Markus.Kuhn@cl.cam.ac.uk Subject: Re: Locating radio receivers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801192155.NAA00465@comsec.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > Kay Ping wrote on 1998-01-16 22:02 UTC: > > Radio links are perfect for hiding the location of receivers. > > Actually, this is only true for extremely carefully shielded military > receivers and not for normal radios. Every receiver contains a local > oscillator to bring the signal down to intermediate frequency (IF), which > is emitting EM waves itself. In addition, the IF signal is emitted > as well. > > As Peter Wright reported in his autobiography, British counterintelligence > (MI5) used vans and planes already in the 1950s to detect spys while > they received radio communication messages from Moscow and to protocol, > which frequency bands the embassies were monitoring (operation RAFTER). > Efficient receiver detection is an active process: You send out short > bursts of a wideband jamming signal and try to find the downtransformed > intermediate frequency equivalent of your burst in the compromising > emanations of the receiver. This way, you get not only the location of > the receiver, but also the precise frequency to which it is tuned. > > Locating radio receivers within a radius of many hundred meters this way > was already state of the art in the spook community over 40 years ago, > so you can safely assume that with digital signal processing, the > performance parameters of modern systems have been increased > significantly. Sending out spread-spectrum style pseudo-noise signals > in the active probing bursts could give you in modern receiver detectors > a considerable signal gain. > > Markus Hi, I talked to some RF guys about the RAFTER attack about a year ago. Their opinion was that since modern receivers have GaAs FET mixers, they don't leak the LO or IF out the antenna like the old fashioned inductor based mixers did. This should be trivial to confirm with a spectrum analyzer. Eric From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: David Honig Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 06:35:43 +0800 To: Kay Jones Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980119142119.007d3610@206.40.207.40> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 03:11 PM 1/19/98 -0600, Kay Jones wrote: >I am writing to you: Recently I was to coach a good friend of mine >through her labor and birth. She very much wanted a natural birth and >had written a very specific birth plan and had planned on signing >waivers to release the hospital and docs from any legal action if Wait 18 years, then her child can sue the hospital. >anything went wrong. When we went to the hospital, the midwife on duty >threw down her birth plan and told her that her child would be delivered >on HER terms (the midwife's) or not at all. She literally forced me to >leave my friend, and then had her physically restrained to insert IV's Not very assertive, are you folks? >and apply monitors which my friend had NOT consented to, and in fact had >specifically said she didn't want. Then, later, during the actual birth, >the midwife let my friend's vagina tear horribly instead of giving her >an episiotomy as she said "You want a natural birth...do it yourself" >Then, my friends new baby was taken from her, and she didn't get to see >the baby for three hours after the birth. The baby was subjected to >tests and proceedures that my friend had specifically requested not be >done, and the baby was given a bottle in spite of the fact that my >friend wanted to nurse her baby. Anyway, my intent is to open a page to >expose these so called 'medical professionals' for what they >are.....butchers! What happened to my friend was pure and simple >assault, but she has not much recourse, as this happened in a military >hospital. You go to a military organization and expect otherwise? Meat is meat baby. >Her husband, like mine is in the Army, and they are not very >high ranking soldiers, so the risk of reprocussions (sp?) to them is >very high if she takes action. Kiss hubby's career goodbye Ms. Jones, you've already complained too much. I know that is the norm for most army >hospitals, and I would like to open a *safe* arena for women to read and >be warned of these people, by NAME and rank, and location, and also a >*safe* place for them to post their horror stories with warnings also. >Many people are afraid of being sued...I could care less tho my husband >is a bit paranoid... do you see what I am trying to say here? Can you >help me? Please let me know as soon as possible :) >Thanks! > You need to look into anonymous posting more than Eternity services, if you are afraid of personal retribution. And you need a lawyer to advise on libel law. But I don't believe you're subject to the UCMJ as a wife. ------------------------------------------------------------ David Honig Orbit Technology honig@otc.net Intaanetto Jigyoubu "How do you know you are not being deceived?" ---A Compendium of Analytic TradeCraft Notes, Directorate of Intelligence, CIA http://www.jya.com/cia-notes.htm From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 06:38:46 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: 'Twas brillig, and the vetter seems to boost haywire In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19980119032518.00b1fda4@pop.pipeline.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 2:04 PM -0800 1/19/98, Ray Arachelian wrote: >On Sun, 18 Jan 1998, John Young wrote: > >> There's vetting but mawky pleas swing >> the censor, indeed, the vetter seems to boost haywire to keep the >> mad buying. Is that not a Brit legacy, too? > >Erm, my universal gibberish translator is back for repairs from heavy >damage by Toto's weird postings... 'could you translate the above >paragraph for those of us in English speaking lands? I used Alta Vista's Translation Service at http://babelfish.altavista.digital.com/cgi-bin/translate? and selected the "Youngspeak to English" option, with this slightly more comprehensible result: "There vetting, but mawky pretexts swing the censor indeed cousins seem to load haywire in order to hold the furious purchase. Isn't that a legacy Brit, also?" I think it is saying something about how our British cousins get furious when then have to buy censored legacy applications and the slithey toves did gyre and gimble in the wabe. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 04:39:12 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Forwarded mail... Message-ID: <199801192108.PAA23118@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Date: 19 Jan 1998 20:20:01 -0000 > From: lcs Mixmaster Remailer > Subject: Congress' *real* job... > Be careful what you wish for. This Congress is far more likely to pass > amendments nullifying the 2nd, the 1st, the 6th, the 4th, and others. And > they'll probably rewrite the 13th to read "no involuntary servitude...unless > we say so." For Congress to pass a single amendment they must get 3/4 of the states to ratify the amendment. That's the check that keeps Congress from going nuts and gives the individual states a measure of equality. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Kay Jones Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 05:16:56 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Eternity service?? Message-ID: <34C3C17A.F464F403@vvm.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Hello....listen, I was referred to you by a friend of mine who is helping me with a page I would like to create. I am a mom of three, aspiring Doula and EMT, and an advocate for natural pregnancy, childbirth, extended breastfeeding and attachment parenting. Here is why I am writing to you: Recently I was to coach a good friend of mine through her labor and birth. She very much wanted a natural birth and had written a very specific birth plan and had planned on signing waivers to release the hospital and docs from any legal action if anything went wrong. When we went to the hospital, the midwife on duty threw down her birth plan and told her that her child would be delivered on HER terms (the midwife's) or not at all. She literally forced me to leave my friend, and then had her physically restrained to insert IV's and apply monitors which my friend had NOT consented to, and in fact had specifically said she didn't want. Then, later, during the actual birth, the midwife let my friend's vagina tear horribly instead of giving her an episiotomy as she said "You want a natural birth...do it yourself" Then, my friends new baby was taken from her, and she didn't get to see the baby for three hours after the birth. The baby was subjected to tests and proceedures that my friend had specifically requested not be done, and the baby was given a bottle in spite of the fact that my friend wanted to nurse her baby. Anyway, my intent is to open a page to expose these so called 'medical professionals' for what they are.....butchers! What happened to my friend was pure and simple assault, but she has not much recourse, as this happened in a military hospital. Her husband, like mine is in the Army, and they are not very high ranking soldiers, so the risk of reprocussions (sp?) to them is very high if she takes action. I know that is the norm for most army hospitals, and I would like to open a *safe* arena for women to read and be warned of these people, by NAME and rank, and location, and also a *safe* place for them to post their horror stories with warnings also. Many people are afraid of being sued...I could care less tho my husband is a bit paranoid... do you see what I am trying to say here? Can you help me? Please let me know as soon as possible :) Thanks! -- Kay Jones KayEC/KayTIS/KayKDZ/KeWEL/KayOfBoz http://www.vvm.com/~kjones *Peace On Earth Begins At Birth* ICQ: 2935300 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 04:46:34 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Amending the Constitution Message-ID: <199801192116.PAA23175@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Hi, It is of some import to note that the legaly amend the Constitution takes considerably more than the 51% that those happy go lucky anarchists are so fond of quoting...it actualy takes 75%. ARTICLE V. [Constitution: how amended; proviso.] The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions of the three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which shall be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of it's equal Suffrage in the Senate. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Bruce Schneier Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 05:47:07 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: British Ministers Adopt Unbreakable Crypto In-Reply-To: <199801152113.NAA15458@comsec.com> Message-ID: <199801192139.PAA16260@mixer.visi.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > >LONDON (AP) -- It's a briefcase even James Bond could love. > >Britain's more adventurous Cabinet ministers soon will be spiriting >laptop computers inside their signature ``Red Box'' briefcases, >complete with fingerprint recognition systems and silent alarms. > [.....] > >``There is even a duress finger,'' Rushworth said. ``That is for if a >terrorist or gunman has a gun to the minister's head forcing him to >open the computer. It will appear to function normally but doesn't, >and sends a silent alarm to the Cabinet Office.'' This is INSANE. How could someone be so stupid as to announce such a feature in a newspaper. I guess this means that if a terrorist sees a Cabinet minister with such a computer, he had better shoot to kill. The whole point of a feature like this is that its existence is secret. Someone is NOT paying attention. Bruce ********************************************************************** Bruce Schneier, President, Counterpane Systems Phone: 612-823-1098 101 E Minnehaha Parkway, Minneapolis,MN 55419 Fax: 612-823-1590 http://www.counterpane.com From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Steve Schear Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 08:57:15 +0800 To: Tim May Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 8:39 PM -0700 11/22/97, Tim May wrote: >At 12:06 PM -0700 11/22/97, TruthMonger wrote: >>Have you heard of a Mac compatible OS called "COS" from Omega in East >>Germany? >>I just found an article about it in Japanese Mac mag and that says Omega >>announced the OS 11/13 at German MacWorldExpo. >... >>There's an interview with Omega's president in the article saying the OS >>runs on 030, 040 & PowerPC without MacROM inside. So bunch of Mac clones >>and CHRP mother boards from Taiwan etc may find a way.... > Any reason someone couldn't sell a generic (e.g., CHRP-like) PowerPC platform which can has at switch-selectable space for at least two OS boot SRAMs? Ship it with Linux, but let the customer load whatever boot and OS they want. There, of course, would be nothing the OEM could do if someone anonymously posted a MacOS compatible boot on a .warez group which purchasers subsequently loaded along with their separately purchased copy of MacOS 8-) --Steve From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Robert Hettinga Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 12:11:36 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Ocean going cities Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain --- begin forwarded text Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 16:32:41 -0500 From: To: technomads@UCSD.EDU Subject: Ocean going cities Just read in an architecture rag called "Metropolis" about floating cities for the rich! I guess being a nomad is becoming chic. Anyways, the two ships are ResidenSea 958ft long with 250 1100-3200 sq ft homes ranging from $1.2-$4.3 million each. driving range putting green 2 pools, helipad gardens, retractable marina. According to the mag, this one looks like it will get built with construction to start soon. Freedom Ship 4320 ft 25 stories for 65,000 people starting at $93,000 includes library school bank hotel hospital, light manufacturing and 2 landing strips!!! How Stephensonesque. I'll be very depressed if the commercial folks do this before the hackers. Now, I wonder where I put that decommissioned aircraft carrier? :-) Thad Starner MIT Media Laboratory Wearable Computing Project --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/ Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 06:46:29 +0800 To: cypherpunks@www.video-collage.com Subject: Distributed stock trading system Message-ID: <199801192238.QAA03188@manifold.algebra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text I would like to hear your feedback on a project that I have just thought about. It is called a Distributed Asset Trading Network. It consists of Traders and Nodes. They trade Products (asset classes). A Product may be an Intel share, or a bond, or an option on S&P 500, or whatever. Who and how defines what the Product unit is is beyond the scope of this document. Each Node in the Network is a clearing corporation that is supposed to be a legitimate operation. To cover possible liabilities, Nodes can post [ecash] bonds to each other. They are ultimately liable for all counterparty defaults in Trades. Traders are clients of Nodes. They have Accounts. To buy or sell Products, they place Orders to these Nodes. The Nodes broadcast the Orders and collect Potential Trades (opposing orders that have not been filled yet). Nodes may have Policies that require Traders to meet certain requirements, in order to avoid potential liability. (ie, to sell stock, you have to have it on your Account, or have enough equity to cover the short sale liabilities, etc). The receiving Node has a short period of time (seconds) to decide which counterparties and which amounts to choose. The sending Node acquires Locks on the submitted Potential Trades and is liable to produce the Asset (or Cash) if the positive response comes back within that time period. This architecture can create a trading environment that is a) independent of borders and national laws, at least to some extent and b) eliminates certain forms of arbitrage, and c) more resistant to denial of service attacks (??), and possibly eliminates the bid-ask spreads and a whole lot of highly-paid intermediaries, and c) potentially increases privacy for transactions. The technical issues that are open, at the moment, are 1) clock synchronization, 2) the need for a central authority to clear liability issues and 3) potential denial of service attacks through acquiring too many locks (again, maybe with the proper liability agreement, it is not an issue). I think that such a system is not all that impossible to develop. Whether it will, or can be made to, work in the technical and social environment that we have is another question. I am curious if something like this has aleready been implemented. Thank you. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- char*p="char*p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf(p,34,p,34);} \=/, _-===-_-====-_-===-_-==========-_-====-_ | @___oo ( )_ /\ /\ / (___,,,}_--= ) ) /^\) ^\/ _) =__ Anything is good and useful if ) ) /^\/ _) (_ ) ) _ / / _) ( ) /\ )/\/ || | )_) (_ it's made of chocolate. ) < > |(,,) )__) ( ) || / \)___)\ (_ __) | \____( )___) )___ -==-_____-=====-_____-=====-___== \______(_______;;; __;;; From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Ray Arachelian Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 06:06:35 +0800 To: John Young Subject: Re: let's do it: NYT ad with hash of fingerprints (fwd) In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19980119032518.00b1fda4@pop.pipeline.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Sun, 18 Jan 1998, John Young wrote: > There's vetting but mawky pleas swing > the censor, indeed, the vetter seems to boost haywire to keep the > mad buying. Is that not a Brit legacy, too? Erm, my universal gibberish translator is back for repairs from heavy damage by Toto's weird postings... 'could you translate the above paragraph for those of us in English speaking lands? =====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos============== .+.^.+.| Ray Arachelian |Prying open my 3rd eye. So good to see |./|\. ..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were |/\|/\ <--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run |\/|\/ ../|\..| "A toast to Odin, |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/. .+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were.... |..... ======================= http://www.sundernet.com ========================== From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Eric Cordian Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 07:35:25 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: British Ministers Adopt Unbreakable Crypto In-Reply-To: <199801192139.PAA16260@mixer.visi.com> Message-ID: <199801192330.RAA09810@wire.insync.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Bruce Schneier writes: > >``There is even a duress finger,'' Rushworth said. ``That is for if a > >terrorist or gunman has a gun to the minister's head forcing him to > >open the computer. It will appear to function normally but doesn't, > >and sends a silent alarm to the Cabinet Office.'' > This is INSANE. How could someone be so stupid as to announce > such a feature in a newspaper. I guess this means that if a > terrorist sees a Cabinet minister with such a computer, he had > better shoot to kill. > The whole point of a feature like this is that its existence is secret. > Someone is NOT paying attention. I don't think the machine is going to do any silent alarming in the grounded Faraday cage with the 10 severed fingers lying on a plate next to it. Anyone know what they actually use to sector encrypt the file system on these things? It would be somewhat amusing if it were snake oil based. -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law" From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 07:11:55 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: www.video-collage.com - another CDR node? Message-ID: <199801192335.RAA23901@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Hi, Is the www.video-collage.com a new node on the remailer network? ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: ulf@fitug.de (Ulf =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=F6ller?=) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 02:57:34 +0800 To: shamrock@cypherpunks.to Subject: Re: Onion routing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <9801191721.AA52458@public.uni-hamburg.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > Furthermore, it must be impossible to discern indiviual messages, meaning > connections being opened or closed. Which requires Pipenet, possibly the > worst bandwidth burner ever invented. :-) With Onion Routing, eavesdroppers cannot see connections being opened and closed, but all the Onion Routers do. How is it done in Pipenet? From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: ? the Platypus {aka David Formosa} Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 17:11:08 +0800 To: Adam Back Subject: Re: (eternity) Covert Superhighway - the missing component? In-Reply-To: <199801141241.MAA00398@server.eternity.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On Wed, 14 Jan 1998, Adam Back wrote: > Ross Anderson [...] > > channel. Let's call it the `Covert Superhighway'. How do we build it? > > Some ideas: [...] > - become a spammer, or employ some spammers. Spammers use the hit and > run approach with disposable accounts; with sufficient availability > of accounts, and the economic incentive they seem to flourish in > spite of intense displeasure of recipients. This is a bad idear, firstly it is moraly and ethicly wrong. Spammers take resoursers without providing anything of value in return. Worce then this it is too nocitable. For a covert channel we wont something that peaple don't worry about and don't pay much attention to. Peaple tend to subject spam to alot of anylises. However it may be possable to incorparte subliminal infomation inside NoCeM posts. - -- Please excuse my spelling as I suffer from agraphia see the url in my header. Never trust a country with more peaple then sheep. ex-net.scum and proud You Say To People "Throw Off Your Chains" And They Make New Chains For Themselves? --Terry Pratchett. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBNMMC0aQK0ynCmdStAQF1cAP6A+E+/myX2rYojosizVzrQ+rzwwiIOvqH oc1fOytw/x1T3yVKOx7hzSq+GAXfZiPQx1QRfy2Lpa8CIPdw/gLDutRdqcI4o22y Kx/9FD4mCzojQRN8Pen7aewxSE1FnMLfG/E6FxdJhWKQ3P8xuLUemrmw5xNR3QiC Km5ozQ3g9bw= =nCIS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: ? the Platypus {aka David Formosa} Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 18:01:46 +0800 To: "Robert A. Costner" Subject: Re: (eternity) Re: remailer resistancs to attack In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980116045037.031a4b40@mail.atl.bellsouth.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On Fri, 16 Jan 1998, Robert A. Costner wrote: [...] > The remailer network is not designed > to be robust or fault tolerant. There is no error notification to the > user. [...] How would this be implermented. If you are able to trace backwards so you know who to notify then you don't have anonminity. - -- Please excuse my spelling as I suffer from agraphia see the url in my header. Never trust a country with more peaple then sheep. ex-net.scum and proud You Say To People "Throw Off Your Chains" And They Make New Chains For Themselves? --Terry Pratchett. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBNMMPA6QK0ynCmdStAQG8qgP8ClMmPfeGkEJ9Fydfb5i3n1ARuKRV+nET cLIt9GfU9vlrashs+2Shx/c8bz67+rl0eOAdgNBbDlW8Fe1Qzb9EfRCn24f+ZL0K +7PyBc+2YTfWOTrmEGihNuLnKUtFUNRrjyC0+PHWDCTOZx+W9LzAxKsbw8TzPWAF zMG5ooTbM+E= =2cCi -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: John Hackworth Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 23:17:04 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com (Cypherpunks) Subject: religious discrimination alive and well in NEW Zealand (fwd) Message-ID: <199801191955.TAA00182@fountainhead.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Hmm. freedom@freedom-press.co.nz wrote: > this is not a spam > you may not be interested in this religion but the powers to > be are attacking a basic human right. So whats new.? > read how a new zealand couple are being prosecuted for their > religious beliefs > http://www.freedom-press.co.nz > Read the kiwi gemstone file,you may be suprised > just email us for a copy.put" kiwi "in the suject line > or join are mailing list for the latest in govt conspiracies > just type" join" in the suject line > The truth shall set you free (perhaps) From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 12:20:05 +0800 To: Lucky Green Subject: Re: British Ministers Adopt Unbreakable Crypto In-Reply-To: <199801192330.RAA09810@wire.insync.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 7:53 PM -0800 1/19/98, Lucky Green wrote: >This reminds me of a conversation I had at a recent biometrics exhibition. >One company exhibited hand shape scanners, such as those installed at San >Francisco International Airport to control access to "sensitive" parts of >the airport. [Do not pass security, go straight the "clean" area]. > >I asked the exhibitor if the scanner would grant access to a hand not >attached to the body. At first, the exhibitor paled and replied that if a >severed hand was part of my thread model (not using these terms), then my >"facility had larger problems than could be solved by access control". The >booth staff, visibly shaken by my insinuation that there are people that >might severe somebody's had to gain access to an environment, kept >following me with their eyes as I walked away from the exhibit. > >Seems these amateurs hadn't considered that somebody getting ready to blow >up an airplane with 250 passengers on board just might have relatively few >qualms about detaching the hand of one Filipino airport janitor on his way >to work. Well, the droids they hire to man their booths are Happy People. No wonder they missed the point of Oklahoma City. >To their credit, the EyeDentify booth staff (the world's sole manufacturer >of retinal scanners), knew what they were doing. Their system checks for >blood flow, etc. A removed eye or a cadaver won't do. Now there is a >company that understands security. Biometric on removed eyeballs was old hat in "Thunderball," as I was approaching adulthood. That the Disneyfied world fails to understand realitities is hardly surprising. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: lcs Mixmaster Remailer Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 04:26:29 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com Subject: Congress' *real* job... Message-ID: <19980119202001.27861.qmail@nym.alias.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >Congress' real job should not be passing laws providing funding, prohibiting >activities, etc. It *should* be in creating and passing Constitutional >amendments per the 10th that re-define the responsibilities and duties of >the federal government within the changing millieu of the current society. >This way the people via their state representatives have a much closer input >into what the feds are actualy enpowered to do and to who. Be careful what you wish for. This Congress is far more likely to pass amendments nullifying the 2nd, the 1st, the 6th, the 4th, and others. And they'll probably rewrite the 13th to read "no involuntary servitude...unless we say so." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Kay Jones Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 10:46:48 +0800 To: David Honig Subject: Re: Eternity service?? In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980119142119.007d3610@206.40.207.40> Message-ID: <34C40DE1.F78B500E@vvm.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain David Honig wrote: > Wait 18 years, then her child can sue the hospital. My point is to prevent this from happening again....I know I can't change the world, but if I can help just one person from having this happen to them, I will have done my job.... > > > > > Not very assertive, are you folks? It wasn't my job to be assertive...and what does a private do when a major tells him what the deal is?? > > > > > Kiss hubby's career goodbye Ms. Jones, you've already complained too much. I don't believe that... > > > You need to look into anonymous posting more than Eternity services, > if you are afraid of personal retribution. And you need a lawyer to > advise on libel law. But I don't believe you're subject to the UCMJ as > a wife. Thanks for your help anyway...useless as it may be.. thanks at least for the prompt if fucked reply. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > David Honig Orbit Technology > honig@otc.net Intaanetto Jigyoubu > > "How do you know you are not being deceived?" > ---A Compendium of Analytic TradeCraft Notes, > Directorate of Intelligence, CIA > http://www.jya.com/cia-notes.htm -- Kay Jones KayEC/KayTIS/KayKDZ/KeWEL/KayOfBoz http://www.vvm.com/~kjones *Peace On Earth Begins At Birth* ICQ: 2935300 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Nobuki Nakatuji" Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 13:38:23 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: RC1 and RC3 ?? Message-ID: <19980120052835.13042.qmail@hotmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Why doesn't it have RC1 and RC3 though there are RC2, RC4 and RC5 of RSADSI RC series ? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Christian Goetze Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 13:58:24 +0800 To: Robert Hettinga Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980119214101.00875100@shell5.ba.best.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain http://freedomshipcity/ Seems like a pipe dream - and wouldn't stand any serious test of war - how are you going to feed 60.000 people without outside help? I'd still be excited if they build it... At 04:23 PM 1/19/98 -0500, Robert Hettinga wrote: >Just read in an architecture rag called "Metropolis" about floating >cities for the rich! I guess being a nomad is becoming chic. > >Anyways, the two ships are > >ResidenSea 958ft long with 250 1100-3200 sq ft homes ranging from >$1.2-$4.3 million each. driving range putting green 2 pools, helipad >gardens, retractable marina. According to the mag, this one looks like it >will get built with construction to start soon. > >Freedom Ship 4320 ft 25 stories for 65,000 people starting at >$93,000 includes library school bank hotel hospital, light >manufacturing and 2 landing strips!!! How Stephensonesque. > >I'll be very depressed if the commercial folks do this before the >hackers. Now, I wonder where I put that decommissioned aircraft >carrier? :-) > > Thad Starner > MIT Media Laboratory > Wearable Computing Project > >--- end forwarded text > > > >----------------- >Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox >e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA >"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, >[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to >experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' >The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/ >Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: > > > > -- cg From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Alan Olsen Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 15:17:57 +0800 To: "Nobuki Nakatuji" Subject: Re: RC1 and RC3 ?? In-Reply-To: <19980120052835.13042.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980119230720.00aaa510@clueserver.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 09:28 PM 1/19/98 PST, Nobuki Nakatuji wrote: > >Why doesn't it have RC1 and RC3 though there are RC2, >RC4 and RC5 of RSADSI RC series ? If we told you we would have to kill you. --- | "That'll make it hot for them!" - Guy Grand | |"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmermann unites all| Disclaimer: | | mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!" | Ignore the man | |`finger -l alano@teleport.com` for PGP 2.6.2 key | behind the keyboard.| | http://www.ctrl-alt-del.com/~alan/ |alan@ctrl-alt-del.com| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Wei Dai Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:00:12 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: PipeNet description Message-ID: <19980119235325.54120@eskimo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I just got a couple of requests for information about PipeNet and I realized that I never did make my final description of it public. The attached informal write-up was done shortly after Crypto '96 as a result of discussions with Hal Finney, David Wagner, and Eric Hughes. I haven't worked on it since then, mostly because the Onion Routing project is doing similar work and appears to be much better funded (I did send them a copy of this write-up per their request). --- The Model Consider a network of processors which send messages to each other asynchronously. We assume that each node is identified by its public key, and that links between nodes are secure. The adversary may control a fixed subset of the nodes. However all messages between any two honest nodes are confidential and always arrive (unmodified) in the order sent (this can be achieved with a standard transport level security protocol). The Protocol The protocol is based on the idea of virtual link encryption. After an anonymous connection is established, the originating node sends a constant stream of (constant size) packets to a second node at a fixed rate. The second node shuffles the packets it receives during a time unit and forwards them in random order to others. A connection is a path in the network. The first node in the path is the caller, and the last node is the receiver. The rest are called switches. Anonymity in this scheme is asymmetric - the caller is anonymous, but not the receiver. Each node in the path shares a key with the caller and knows the nodes immediately in front of and behind it. Every pair of adjacent nodes shares a link id. Each switch in the path therefore has a key and two associated ids. Call the id that it shares with the previous node (the one closer to the caller) type A, and call the other id type B. For each id, the switch expects exactly one packet tagged with that id in each time unit. When it receives a packet tagged with a type A id, it decrypts that packet with the associated key, tags it with the corresponding type B id, and forwards it to the next node. When it receives a packet tagged with a type B id, it encrypts the packet with the associated key, tags it with the corresponding type A id, and forwards it to the previous node. The forwarding is always done at the end of the time unit, and the order in which packets are sent is random. For each packet going from the caller to the receiver, the caller must multi-encrypt it with the keys it shares with each of the nodes in the path, starting with the receiver. It then sends the packet to the first switch tagged with the appropriate link id. Each switch will strip a layer of encryption and forward the packet to the next node. For a packet going from the receiver to the caller, the receiver encrypts it with the key it shares with the caller and sends it to the last switch in the path. Each switch will add a layer of encryption and forward the packet to the previous node. To establish a connection, the caller (N0) performs the following steps: 1. Select a node (N1) at random and establish a key (K1) and link id (S1) with N1. 2. Select another node (N2) at random. 3. Request that N1 establish a link id (S2) with N2. 4. Establish a key (K2) with N2 through N1. 5. Request that N1 use K1 to decrypt all messages tagged with S1, tag the decrypted message with S2 and forward them to N2. Also request that N1 use K1 to encrypt all messages tagged with S2, tag the encrypted messages with S1 and forward them to N0. 6. Repeat steps 2 to 4 l-2 times. (Name the i-th node, key, and id Ni, Ki, and Si respectively.) 7. Repeat steps 2 to 4 a final time, but with the receiver node (Nl) instead of a random node. Timing We assumed earlier that communications links between honest nodes are vulnerable to delay attacks. Therefore we must ensure that link delays do not reveal traffic information. Each node expects one packet from each link id in each time unit. Extra packets are queued for processing in later time units. However, if it does not receive a packet for a link id in a particular time unit, it stops normal processing of packets for that time unit and queues all packets. This ensures that any delay is propagated through the entire network and cannot be used to trace a particular connection. The process of making and breaking connections must also not leak information. This can be done by using a protocol analogous to mix-net. Link forming/destroying requests are queued and performed in batches in a way similar to queuing and mixing of e-mail in a mix-net. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 13:37:08 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: OpenPGP WG meeting minutes In-Reply-To: <9801200250.AA18842@h2np.suginami.tokyo.jp> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Hironobu Suzuki writes: > > > Miscellaneous: (Comments not recorded) > ... > > We should not just put in everyone's pet algorithms. > > I agree. > > But I want new algorithm id for MISTY1 when this document become > RFCXXXX. MISTY1 which was designed by Matsui-san looks so good. I > believe an algorithm which is described in RFC is not a `pet' one. > > > ----MISTY1 INTERNET DRAFT---- > INTERNET-DRAFT H. Ohta > Expires in six months M. Matsui > Mitsubishi Electric Corporation > December 1997 > > > A Description of the MISTY1 Encryption Algorithm > > > > > --- > Hironobu SUZUKI Independent Software Consultant > E-Mail: hironobu@h2np.suginami.tokyo.jp > URL://www.pp.iij4u.or.jp/~h2np To learn some English, chop-chop. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 13:27:20 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: proving that one knows how to break RSA In-Reply-To: <199801190915.KAA15874@basement.replay.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Anonymous writes: > Payne is obviously a nut case You have a problem with that? --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Dr. Alan Sherman" Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 14:38:58 +0800 To: csee Subject: $50 encryption policy contest Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain $50 www Contest I will pay $50 to the best www page created by 12noon EST, February 15, 1998, meeting the enclosed specifications. In short, the page must have a form through which anyone may enter a question, which will be automatically entered onto a list of submitted questions displayed on another page. I will use the winning entry to collect questions for the upcoming March 6 talk on encryption policy by Barry Smith (FBI). How to enter: email a url of your entry to sherman@cs.umbc.edu include the phrase "Barry Smith Contest Entry" in the subject header. All URL's for all entries will be listed from http://www.cs.umbc.edu/events/spring98/crypto2.shtml Rules: 1. The page must work from the CMSC computing environment, but initial judging will take place on the designer's server. 2. Anyone in the world may enter. 3. If no one submits an adequate entry by February 15, a $20 prize will be awarded to the best entry that meets a restricted set of specifications. In this case, the contest will be extended for one more week, with a reduced prize of $30 for the best full entry received by 12noon EST, February 22, 1998. 4. Entries will be judged on the basis of satisfying the specifications, robustness, creativity, ease of use, and visual appeal. 5. Group work is allowed and encouraged. 6. I will be the sole final judge of the winner. Specifications: A. $20 Restricted Specifications 1. The form must include entries for a restricted-length question (at most 500 ascii characters), an email address, and optionally a name. 2. The form must include a submit button, which when clicked, will automatically append the question to a list of questions on a separate www page. Each displayed question must include the author's email and name (if provided). B. $50 Full Specifications In addition to the $20 specifications, the forum must also meet the following sp[ecifications: 3. (**important**) The page of submitted questions must have a means by which anyone can score the quality of the question on a scale of 1 to 5 (say, by clicking on the appropriate score button), with 5 being the highest score. For each question, its median score must be displayed. Questions must be listed in order of decreasing median scores. 4. The form must have an entry for optional URLs. These URLs must be posted with the question in such a way that they are active. 5. There must be an entry for sender status (selection from a list of options, such as cypherpunk, NSA employee, UMBC student, other student, government employee, faculty, industrial engineer, ...) 6. (optional) For each question, also list the number of votes entered for each score in addition to the median score. 7. (optional) Reject any question containing a vulgar word. 8. (optional) Feel free to add other appropriate constructive functionality. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Dave Emery Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 14:58:51 +0800 To: Eric Blossom Subject: Re: Locating radio receivers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <19980120015007.64178@die.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Mon, Jan 19, 1998 at 01:55:55PM -0800, Eric Blossom wrote: > > Kay Ping wrote on 1998-01-16 22:02 UTC: > > > Radio links are perfect for hiding the location of receivers. > > > > Actually, this is only true for extremely carefully shielded military > > receivers and not for normal radios. Every receiver contains a local > > oscillator to bring the signal down to intermediate frequency (IF), which > > is emitting EM waves itself. In addition, the IF signal is emitted > > as well. > > > > As Peter Wright reported in his autobiography, British counterintelligence > > (MI5) used vans and planes already in the 1950s to detect spys while > > they received radio communication messages from Moscow and to protocol, > > which frequency bands the embassies were monitoring (operation RAFTER). > > Efficient receiver detection is an active process: You send out short > > bursts of a wideband jamming signal and try to find the downtransformed > > intermediate frequency equivalent of your burst in the compromising > > emanations of the receiver. This way, you get not only the location of > > the receiver, but also the precise frequency to which it is tuned. > > > > Locating radio receivers within a radius of many hundred meters this way > > was already state of the art in the spook community over 40 years ago, > > so you can safely assume that with digital signal processing, the > > performance parameters of modern systems have been increased > > significantly. Sending out spread-spectrum style pseudo-noise signals > > in the active probing bursts could give you in modern receiver detectors > > a considerable signal gain. > > > > Markus > > Hi, > > I talked to some RF guys about the RAFTER attack about a year ago. > Their opinion was that since modern receivers have GaAs FET mixers, > they don't leak the LO or IF out the antenna like the old fashioned > inductor based mixers did. > > This should be trivial to confirm with a spectrum analyzer. > > Eric This varies a great deal. Generally cheap vhf/uhf scanners and the like radiate quite a bit of energy and can be easily seen on a spectrum analyzer at hundreds of feet (with no special effort). A good bit of energy escapes many scanners through the cheap and poorly shielded plastic case and power cords rather than leaving via the antenna, so even if a good broadband preamp is used between the antenna and the input of the scanner - which should effectively eliminate LO radiation from going out the antenna because the preamp is going to have to have a great deal of loss for energy routed through it backwards (output to input) or it would be unstable and oscillate - the signals radiated from the radio itself and the power cord will give it away. First local oscillator energy is the most easily seen radiation from scanners - IF radiation is much lower in level in most modern gear because of the very short lead lengths and comparitively low signal levels and good decoupling from the antenna - IF frequencies (save the first IF on many scanners) are low enough so the component leads don't act like a very good antenna because they are such a tiny fraction of a wavelength. High grade military/spook class receivers are much better shielded, some in fact to TEMPEST level specs, and don't have the problems that most cheap scanners for hobbiests have. If used with a good preamp ahead of them they are very hard to detect if the shielding is intact and undamaged (which may or may not be the case for a unit that has been kicked around for years and carelessly repaired and modified). But a fair number of modern HF (2-30 mhz) communications receivers and transcievers use no or very little RF amplification before the first mixer in order to maximize dynamic range and third order intercept and their 1st LO's (usually in the low VHF range) are not as well isolated from the antenna. However, most modern receivers use synthesized local oscillators phase locked to a local crystal oscillator and the LO is not as likely to be detectably modulated by the audio the receiver is receiving as was the case with the vacuum tube era communications receivers in the RAFTER era that used free running LC tuned oscillators. Power supply regulation and decoupling is much better in modern gear, and this combined with the use of phase locked synthesized oscillators means that while it may be possible to detect radiation from the receiver LO, it is not as easy to detect fm and am sidebands coming from the receiver audio which was the basis of a lot of RAFTER work. But sensitive spectrum analyzers are available and not uncommon these days, so anyone who is trying to operate an undetected receiver for any serious purpose now has the tools to determine just how much his gear is radiating. Of course the detection gear has gotten better too, but careful shielding up to and including faraday cages, use of good preamps and circulators and use of spectrum analyzers to check for stray radiation makes it less likely that someone will easily find a carefully hidden receiver than in the past. But a plastic cased consumer grade scanner from Radio Shack may be detectable a half mile away... or more... -- Dave Emery N1PRE, die@die.com DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass. PGP fingerprint = 2047/4D7B08D1 DE 6E E1 CC 1F 1D 96 E2 5D 27 BD B0 24 88 C3 18 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "William H. Geiger III" Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:12:30 +0800 To: Eric Cordian Subject: Re: British Ministers Adopt Unbreakable Crypto In-Reply-To: <199801192330.RAA09810@wire.insync.net> Message-ID: <199801200825.DAA06075@users.invweb.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In <199801192330.RAA09810@wire.insync.net>, on 01/19/98 at 06:30 PM, Eric Cordian said: >Anyone know what they actually use to sector encrypt the file system on >these things? It would be somewhat amusing if it were snake oil >based. It may not be snake-oil but you can bet it will be GAKed. I can just imagine some poor clerk tying to explain to one of those boneheads that they can't get their files just because they forgot their passphrases. I wouldn't be suprised if there were several keys floating around that would give access to one of those machines. - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- Tag-O-Matic: You said Windows was a Power Tool??? -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a-sha1 Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBNMRN4I9Co1n+aLhhAQFRdwP8Dhr511XyhabfAHN8Vr5xFB9l/cGqCV50 opc7y+BIYmVnbxExha+TFUcmbC285kAqxASaR8klTqAdeYJuoBy3/4GK6jbsnlBo KumzbyaM7hTcLIP8dfRM8Rs2Ol0NcBv0Qn+JmxkkAyn0F9FzOIdNfEwkJXVjU3WW Q0abx0ieCYg= =aLAL -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: garte6493@compuserve.com Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 04:02:35 +0800 To: Subject: This is so Incredible! Message-ID: <20992090_14372405> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Work SMART......not hard! You can easily make hundreds a week just passing out this 800 number with your code number. Many are making thousands a week. This is positively the easiest money that I have ever made! The company does the selling for you, closes the deal, and sends you $100 for every sale PLUS monthly residual income. I have done a lot of programs but believe me, NOTHING comes close to this! Don't miss this opportunity! Call now! 1-800-811-2141 Code #44737 . 8 - 10 Mon-Sat (CST) (This is HOT! If it is busy, keep trying). In Canada call 1-800-588-9786 Code #44737 Shirley maceywW@hotmail.com The NUMBER #1 homebased business for 2 years in a row! ************************************************************************ To be removed from this list, please send remove requests to remove@remove.org. ************************************************************************ *************************************************************************** No Reply. Because of illegal acts by internet terrorists upon bulk friendly ISPs (mail bombs, hackers, ping attacks, etc) we regret that we cannot supply a valid reply address. *************************************************************************** From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Lucky Green Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 11:57:18 +0800 To: Eric Cordian Subject: Re: British Ministers Adopt Unbreakable Crypto In-Reply-To: <199801192330.RAA09810@wire.insync.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Mon, 19 Jan 1998, Eric Cordian wrote: > Bruce Schneier writes: > > > >``There is even a duress finger,'' Rushworth said. ``That is for if a > > >terrorist or gunman has a gun to the minister's head forcing him to > > >open the computer. It will appear to function normally but doesn't, > > >and sends a silent alarm to the Cabinet Office.'' > > > This is INSANE. How could someone be so stupid as to announce > > such a feature in a newspaper. I guess this means that if a > > terrorist sees a Cabinet minister with such a computer, he had > > better shoot to kill. > > > The whole point of a feature like this is that its existence is secret. > > Someone is NOT paying attention. > > I don't think the machine is going to do any silent alarming in the > grounded Faraday cage with the 10 severed fingers lying on a plate next to > it. This reminds me of a conversation I had at a recent biometrics exhibition. One company exhibited hand shape scanners, such as those installed at San Francisco International Airport to control access to "sensitive" parts of the airport. [Do not pass security, go straight the "clean" area]. I asked the exhibitor if the scanner would grant access to a hand not attached to the body. At first, the exhibitor paled and replied that if a severed hand was part of my thread model (not using these terms), then my "facility had larger problems than could be solved by access control". The booth staff, visibly shaken by my insinuation that there are people that might severe somebody's had to gain access to an environment, kept following me with their eyes as I walked away from the exhibit. Seems these amateurs hadn't considered that somebody getting ready to blow up an airplane with 250 passengers on board just might have relatively few qualms about detaching the hand of one Filipino airport janitor on his way to work. To their credit, the EyeDentify booth staff (the world's sole manufacturer of retinal scanners), knew what they were doing. Their system checks for blood flow, etc. A removed eye or a cadaver won't do. Now there is a company that understands security. [Disclaimer: I have no connection whatsoever to either manufacturer]. -- Lucky Green PGP v5 encrypted email preferred. "Tonga? Where the hell is Tonga? They have Cypherpunks there?" From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Dr. Alan Sherman" Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 21:15:43 +0800 To: Lucky Green Subject: Re: $50 encryption policy contest In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Tue, 20 Jan 1998, Lucky Green wrote: > Given that the majority of the serious people on the list charge upwards > of $100/hour (I charge $250/hour for even looking at a problem), $50 seems > to be insufficient to generate much interest. Your point is well taken. I should have explained that I am seeking assistance for altruism from someone who is interested in crypto policy. For example, no one is compensating me for the many hours I've volunteered to pull off this two-part lecture series (and it was quite a challenge to get anyone with government connections to go on stage with John Gilmore). See http://www.cs.umbc.edu/events/fall97/crypto.shtml I'm also trying to help students by suggesting a concrete, worthwhile, interesting project through which to learn about www programming. I am open to the idea of a prize fund: I will augment the prize with 100% of all prize donations mailed to me. If each of 200 people send me $1, the prize fund will grow to $250. (make out check to "UMBC") Dr. Alan T. Sherman Dept. of CSEE UMBC 1000 Hilltop Circle Baltimore, MD 21250 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 22:30:31 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: FDA bans human cloning [CNN] Message-ID: <199801201457.IAA26472@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > FDA: NO HUMAN CLONING WITHOUT AGENCY APPROVAL > > Cloning graphic January 19, 1998 > Web posted at: 9:18 p.m. EST (0218 GMT) > > WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Food and Drug Administration has a warning > for the Chicago physicist who wants to clone a human: The agency > will shut down anyone who tries without its permission. > > Richard Seed's cloning plans have sparked a public outcry and a race > by Congress and more than a dozen states to ban cloning. With the > FDA filling what critics had called a regulatory vacuum, scientists > say lawmakers should take more time to ensure vaguely worded > anti-cloning bills don't also ban lifesaving medical research. > > "It's been a public and media assumption that there is nothing on > the books that would even slow or stop Dr. Seed," said Carl Feldbaum > of the Biotechnology Industry Organization, which represents > biotechnologists involved in cloning research. FDA intervention > "creates at least some breathing space." > > FDA investigators plan to make clear to Seed that federal > regulations require that he file for FDA approval to attempt cloning > -- permission highly unlikely. > > "We're not only able to move, we're prepared to move," said Dr. > Michael Friedman, FDA's acting commissioner, noting the agency can > go to court to stop unauthorized cloning attempts. > [text deleted] ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 22:31:48 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Intel introduces new compression technology for surfers [CNN] Message-ID: <199801201459.IAA26531@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > > INTEL INTRODUCES TECHNOLOGY TO SURF THE WEB FASTER > > January 19, 1998 > Web posted at: 9:35 p.m. EST (0235 GMT) > > HILLSBORO, Oregon (AP) -- The World Wide Wait may be over. > > Computer chip giant Intel on Monday announced a way for Internet > surfers to download images twice as fast over regular phone lines > without any special equipment or software -- but it will add about > $5 to monthly access fees. > > The technology called Quick Web is installed on the computers called > servers that Internet services use to store and relay data. The > combination of Intel hardware and special software compresses all > the graphic images that are piped through the server, boosting > access speed. > > "The more pictures on the screen, the faster it is," said Dave > Preston, Internet marketing manager for Intel. > [text deleted] ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 22:58:51 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: (eternity) Eternity as a secure filesystem/backup medium (fwd) Message-ID: <199801201526.JAA26626@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 22:00:24 -0800 > From: Bill Stewart > Subject: Re: (eternity) Eternity as a secure filesystem/backup medium > (fwd) > Assume the existence of a for-profit service provider. > The service provider needs to cover the costs of the service, Which in general are a flat rate. I'll try to fill in the various issues you raise with as real-world numbers as I can get. > plus enough profit to make the effort interesting. > The prices charged need to reflect the costs (or be higher) > or the service provider can't make money and goes out of business. > So what are the costs, and who can be talked into paying for them? Everyone who uses the system. The question is who do we want to define as 'using'. I believe the provider of information is not 'using' the system in the strictest sense but rather making an investment of their time and effort in somebodies elses business model and hoping that work will bring them profit. > 1) Storage of information - Storage currently costs < $1/MB for raw disk, > and getting cheaper by the minute, Assuming your 5 year plan, a 1G drive costs $100 or less. That's roughly $20/G-yr. > but sysadmins, lawyers, etc. > cost money and they're not getting cheaper as fast. Granted, but except for the sys-admin you don't need them often. In all the years I have been in business I've needed a lawyer only a couple of times. Say $1k/lawyer-year. > The costs of the equipment for permanent storage are probably about > 10-50% more than the costs for storing for 5 years; A Cyrix P200 runs about $600 for a working box (I bought one just a few weeks ago). So that gives us about $120/cpu-year. > the costs of administration (assuming inflation is limited to > some small number) can be covered by an annuity. For reliable system administartion you're looking at 5 people (3 8-hr. shifts plus weekend coverage of 2 12 hour shifts). A sys admin with the skills and maturity to work in this environment is going to run you in the neighborhood of $40-60k/yr. So this means we're looking at, on the outside, $300k/sysadmin-yr. This is the real cost of doing business. > Every technology upgrade or two you need to copy the archives to > new storage media, and data that doesn't get accessed often may > get migrated out to slower or perhaps even offline media; > storage contracts need to reflect that retrieving data that hasn't > been accessed in a while may involve some delay. Not shure what the normal ratio for online versus offline storage actualy is currently, say 10:1. > 2) Transmission of information - Roughly proportional to MB/time - This seems overly simplistic to me. The actual cost of the bandwidth is reasonably fixed for a given site. Also if we throw in the other servers this model becomes a bit more flexible. Remember, under the Eternity model we don't know *which* server is being hit for the request. This means we have to consider the actual end user costs in a much more complicated fashion. It's one of the issue I'm working on myself. It does not seem clear cut nor well researched at all. > unlike storage, this one's not predictable, unless the provider and > author agree in advance (e.g. N free accesses per year, per password.) > So the provider could charge the reader for access, I fail to see the profit in giving away plans for man portable nukes or to turn commen cooking yeast into a THC producing horde when the various groups around the world would pay so many millions (or would that be billions) for some to get it and some to keep others from getting it. The potential for a access auction hasn't been explored as far as I am aware. > or use advertising > banners to fund retrieval costs (if that remains a valid model > for financing the web over the next N years, especially if the > readers retrieve data through anonymizers.) I believe advertising would be a necessity. The question is how. Would the payoff for doing a print ad in a magazine be worth it? Should it only be advertised on the net? > 3) Legal defense - This one's harder to predict :-) If the Eternity model works the question becomes which one and where are they located? Whose legal defense? Which jurisdiction? Put up an offer for 1 weeks notice of any pending legal actions against the network and make it worth the while. Say $500M. It would of course be fully anonymous and the information would have to be testable prior to payout. Leaves two option. First, the data is verified and the source is paid. Second, the server goes down and the source isn't paid - thus ruining the reputation of a server. It isn't clear to me what the total impact would be on the network as a whole. One way to mediate this impact on a given server would be to share the cost of the payout between the various servers. It is after all in all the servers best interest to keep as many going unharrassed and as well prepared and for-warned as possible. > The current US climate is that service providers are relatively immune > as long as they cooperate with subpoenas and court orders, True, but the current model doesn't allow anonymous providers as the norm either. The users may be anonymous but the ISP isn't. > If they want their names known, they can include them in the contents > of the data that readers retrieve, independent of what the server does. Then there is no reason to use an anonymous network, simply put the data on their own webpage and sell it direct, cut out the middle-man a tried and true business tactic. > and accumulate reputation capital under those nyms. One of the assumptions is that the source, individual server, and sink are all anonymous to each other as well as Mallet. Now we're changing the rules of the game in the middle of the game. Apples and oranges. If I were actualy going to impliment something like this I wouldn't even consider it unless I had at least $500k worth of funding for each of the first 5 years. That start up cost, $2.5M, is what is going to kill it. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: David Honig Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 02:30:35 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Taxonomy of crypto applications Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980120101359.007c6c10@206.40.207.40> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Trying to make sense of the various applications of crypto, I came up with an illustration of their 'dependancies' at http://rattler.otc.net/crypto/mydocs/taxonomy.gif This picture illustrates topics that you should learn before others. For instance, digital watermarking depends on steganography and message-authentication codes. Anonymity requires understanding traffic mixing and practical encryption; practical encryption requires understanding public and secret key encryption. FWIW. Comments welcome. ------------------------------------------------------------ David Honig Orbit Technology honig@otc.net Intaanetto Jigyoubu "How do you know you are not being deceived?" ---A Compendium of Analytic TradeCraft Notes, Directorate of Intelligence, CIA http://www.jya.com/cia-notes.htm From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "William H. Geiger III" Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 01:23:16 +0800 To: pgut001@cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann) Subject: Re: [Long] How to recover private keys for various Microsoft products In-Reply-To: <88531016604880@cs26.cs.auckland.ac.nz> Message-ID: <199801201732.MAA10200@users.invweb.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In <88531016604880@cs26.cs.auckland.ac.nz>, on 01/21/98 at 04:29 AM, pgut001@cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann) said: >Summary >------- > >Microsoft uses two different file formats to protect users private keys, >the original (unnamed) format which was used in older versions of MSIE, >IIS, and other software and which is still supported for >backwards-compatibility reasons in newer versions, and the newer PFX/PKCS >#12 format. Due to a number of design and implementation flaws in >Microsofts software, it is possible to break the security of both of >these formats and recover users private keys, often in a matter of >seconds. In addition, a major security hole in Microsofts CryptoAPI >means that many keys can be recovered without even needing to break the >encryption. These attacks do not rely for their success on the presence >of weak, US-exportable encryption, they also affect US versions. This is a battle I have been fighting for years now. Do not TRUST Mircosoft for security. Plane and simple. They have shown for years now that they are incapable or unwilling to spend the time, money, and effort to produce secure products (Remember the MS claims of NT being C2 rated? LOL!!!). I have spent quite a bit of effort trying to educate ISV's not to use the MS crypto API for a variety of reasons. Unfortunately, for the most part it falls on deaf ears. Most ISV's are unwilling to accept the fact that security as an afterthought does not work. Combine this a public that does not care about security but is willing to accept the warm fuzzies from pseudo-security and you get bug filled crap like the MS CryptoAPI accepted throughout the market place. I have come to the point now that I will not use any commercial security software nor will I recommend it to any of my clients. If it is not burdened with GAK, as with software from IBM and Lotus, it is flawed by shear incompetence as with software from Microsoft and Netscape. - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- Tag-O-Matic: You're throwing it all out the Windows! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a-sha1 Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBNMTN3o9Co1n+aLhhAQHuagQApRiDHrPDtI82nUd8/7TOE64EZmlLn0zD NoHK5edUYuCRdzKfw4/4MzmIHwrasF7IpJDoQ5djtkSc8AQCsSpI4vMlq1LiyU3K DngvVGhVfsSxJ+Sbt5HAsQyEr0tnJmI92fswJrsvEMKEsd5sLhadrbW4e+CoQxUS 1m62eo1hAWs= =Lsuq -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 00:23:24 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Intel, MS, & Compaq to boost Inet access x30 w/ new modem [CNN] Message-ID: <199801201649.KAA27012@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > > REPORT: VENTURE PROMISES SPEEDIER INTERNET ACCESS > > Internet graphic January 20, 1998 > Web posted at: 9:21 a.m. EST (1421 GMT) > > NEW YORK (AP) -- Lightning-quick Internet access is in the works > under a reported new venture between three titans of the computer > industry and most local telephone companies. > > Executives at Intel, Compaq Computer and Microsoft said in The New > York Times on Tuesday that they want to develop a new type of > personal computer modem that would allow access to World Wide Web > pages at speeds 30 times faster than the usual several seconds to > minutes it now takes. > > Perhaps more important, the product would plug into normal telephone > lines, which would remain connected to the outside world. > Consequently, users would not need to dial a service and could > conduct normal voice conversations over the same line, the Times > said. > [text deleted] ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 03:37:32 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Re: Deriving economic profits from writing FREE software? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 10:27 PM -0800 1/18/98, Bill Stewart wrote: >At 10:11 PM 1/16/98 -0600, Igor wrote: >>However, aside from the psychic benefits, I would like to somehow derive >>an economic profit from being a freeware author. So far, I feel that the >>status of the author of a popular package does sound good on a resume, but >>it is as far as I could get. >> >>Does anyone else feel the same way? Has anybody come up with a way to >>cash in on the free programs that he writes? > >There's the standard shareware model - ask for $25. >There's the Cygnus model - charge money for support. >There's the Netscape/McAfee/etc. model - free for personal use, > charge money to companies that use it. >There's the Eudora model - basic version free, bells&whistles extra. >There's the advertising-banner model - the software/service is free, > but usage hits an advertising banner in some way that > filters money back to you. > >There are probably a lot more ways to do it as well, but it's a start. Ah, but these are all chump change models. How about: There's the Mosaic model--develop a product with university funds, watch it catch on, and then help found a company and make a quick $20 million or more. (A model also loosely paralleled in the founding of Cisco and Sun.) And, quite seriously, the most important thing "shareware" does is to establish one's credibility as a programmer. Many of the Mac shareware programmers made almost nothing off of the paltry donations, but the elegance of their products led to job opportunities and, even better, startup opportunities. (Lloyd Chambers, at PGP, Inc., for example, if I haven't confused him with someone else.) --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Steve Mynott Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 17:36:54 +0800 To: Bill Stewart Subject: Re: Deriving economic profits from writing FREE software? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <19980120112950.01497@tightrope.demon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Sun, Jan 18, 1998 at 10:27:10PM -0800, Bill Stewart wrote: > There's the standard shareware model - ask for $25. > There's the Cygnus model - charge money for support. > There's the Netscape/McAfee/etc. model - free for personal use, > charge money to companies that use it. > There's the Eudora model - basic version free, bells&whistles extra. > There's the advertising-banner model - the software/service is free, > but usage hits an advertising banner in some way that > filters money back to you. Does anyone have any economic studies (or stories) which compare the effectiveness of these approaches? -- Steve From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 01:31:49 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: Your local phone company (fwd) Message-ID: <199801201759.LAA27407@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Hi, Ooops, I needed to do some editing that I missed....sorry for the confusion. > that base 4800 baud. Faxes get the 9600 because they use dual-tones, neither > of which is above the 4800. The problem with shoving more tones is that afer I should have changed all those 4800's to 1200's. I couldn't remember which one so I had picked one distinct from the example provided by ya'll and missed changing it to the correct value per the references. I got sloppy. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: John Young Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 01:31:08 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: China's New Net Regs Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980120172945.00749fb4@pop.pipeline.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Thanks to MK we offer the new Chinese net regulations as published by the US Embassy in Beijing: http://jya.com/cn-netreg.htm From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Bill Stewart Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 16:19:37 +0800 To: cypherpunks@www.video-collage.com Subject: Re: Distributed stock trading system In-Reply-To: <199801192238.QAA03188@manifold.algebra.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980120180340.00834c80@popd.ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 04:38 PM 1/19/98 -0600, Igor Chudov @ home wrote, but not in this order: >I would like to hear your feedback on a project that I have just >thought about. >It is called a Distributed Asset Trading Network. It consists of >Traders and Nodes. They trade Products (asset classes). A Product may >be an Intel share, or a bond, or an option on S&P 500, or whatever. Who >and how defines what the Product unit is is beyond the scope of this Interesting gedanken-project. Some related work is Bob Hettinga's geodesic networks and (Mark Miller?)'s agorics. >The technical issues that are open, at the moment, are >1) clock synchronization, Long since solved - use NTP. Assuming the nodes don't need to be stealthy, they can just clock off each other; if they need stealth, they should clock off some trusted worldwide internet providers. If they need to be blazingly invisible, use a GPS receiver clock. (Using NTP with each other makes it easy to estimate distances, but that's a risk any time you've got uniform clocking and reasonably fast-turnaround communication.) >2) the need for a central authority to clear liability issues and You've described the Node as a "clearing corporation", with bonding to cover liability. The corporation and central authority both work against your goal of "a) independent of borders and national laws." Also, assuming that each Node posts bonds in about the same amount as it accepts bonds posted with it, the bonds still don't provide an incentive not to abscond with the money, since it steals about as much as it forfeits in bond; expected positive future cash flow is what discourages the Node from absconding. Posting bonds with a central authority avoids this problem, but a central authority is both a target for governments and for freelance thieves, and a temptation for its operators to abscond. >3) potential denial of service attacks through acquiring too >many locks (again, maybe with the proper liability agreement, >it is not an issue). That's a job for careful implementation; you don't want customers taking down nodes either. You didn't address a major problem: 0) Scalability Talking to 10 other nodes in realtime is easy. 10000 is hard. Not only do you need the bandwidth, but you've got to worry about nodes that are down, or that you temporarily can't communicate with, and you've got to be fast enough to respond to all their demand, maintain state for your crypto sessions with them, recover from your own outages, and deal with the queuing if they've all decided that you've got the best price for something this second. The more nodes you talk to, the harder it is to scale. But the fewer nodes you talk to directly, the slower it is to propagate information about prices, bids, and offers, and therefore the harder it is to get prices to converge - since you discuss eliminating arbitrage, bid-ask spreads, and expensive intermediaries, this is a problem. Also, assuming the system has convenient room for negotiation, you'll still have time delays as people are deciding what to do, so there's still arbitrage to be made, and depending on your liability structure, there's probably room for low-balling and high-balling on bids. Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 01:51:40 +0800 To: declan@well.com Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199801201744.SAA22154@basement.replay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain ISLAMABAD, Pakistan (AP) - In a fresh move to promote Islamic culture, Pakistan's TV censors have been busy. They have slashed footage of pop musicians sporting long hair and jeans. Male and female co-hosts of local television programs are no more. Scores of commercials and programs have ended up on the cutting room floor since the launching recently of a campaign by Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif's government to impose its regimen of Islamic decency on television. For example, a toothpaste advertisement was considered unseemly because it showed a toothy young couple grinning at each other affectionately. Gone are the soap and shampoo commercials that showed "female glamour related to their bathing." Government officials say the campaign reflects Pakistan's traditional Muslim culture. The new policies are aimed at promoting Pakistan's rich heritage and Islamic traditions, not at trampling "acceptable" artistic expression, said Saddiq-ul Farooq, prime minister's spokesman. "The line of demarcation is that the animal instincts should not be aroused." But advertisers and artists say the new rules more reflect a slide toward Islamic fundamentalism that stifles freedom of expression - and costs them money. The campaign began in October after Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif reportedly complained that lascivious Western culture was polluting state-run Pakistan Television (PTV). PTV's censors took Sharif's gripe to heart. The censor board announced a new policy that banned footage of women "giving indecent and vulgar looks which are considered contrary to Islamic values." It also banned women from appearing in "jeans and seductive dress." Then a letter went out to advertisers saying commercials which depict "an alien locale and dresses not in harmony with our national culture will not be sanctioned for telecast." In conservative Pakistan, where sex outside marriage is a crime and many women don't venture outside the home without a veil, local film and television is traditionally conservative. Even before the newest campaign, Pakistani censors were discriminating, slicing footage of nudity, sexual intercourse, gratuitous violence and foul language from imported films and television programs. But critics say the new rules have gone too far. Advertisers have been warned against "exhibiting of body contours" and advised to avoid "unnecessary featuring of females." One of the first victims of the new rules was a soap commercial that featured a head and shoulder shot of a well-known Pakistani actress washing her face. Saying the footage was too seductive, censor board officials said it left to the imagination whether the actress was wearing any clothes, said Kareem Ramaal, an executive with Asiatic Advertising Ltd., the agency that produced the commercial. "It's quite a perverted attitude," he said. Ramaal and other advertising executives say the new rules could mean big losses for Pakistan's burgeoning advertising industry. Asiatic's clients have spent as much as $10 million producing some of the commercials that have been forced off the air. "That's just money down the drain," he said. If advertisers pull out, it could mean millions of dollars in losses for the cash-strapped state-run channel. PTV is Pakistan's only channel, but satellite dishes are making headway in this nation of 140 million people, offering dozens of channels over which the government has no control. A 1996 Gallup poll found that 58 percent of adults, about 38 million people, watch television. Seven percent said they had access to a satellite dish. "Culture and religious faith mean different things to different people ... the government should not even attempt to define them," the independent English-language newspaper The News wrote in an editorial. Pakistani singer, Salman Ahmed believes that the government worries that Western-influenced pop music and culture could foment discontent among the country's young. Ahmed said it wasn't his long hair and jeans that got his rock band, Junoon, banned from television, but rather government unhappiness over its hits, which speak of Pakistan's social ills and government corruption. "I think they are scared of us," Ahmed said. "The young generation listens to us and follows us - especially the social songs." PTV officials dismissed Ahmed's accusation, saying there was a difference between modernism and Westernization. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 02:15:00 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: [Long] How to recover private keys for various Microsoft Message-ID: <199801201809.TAA25056@basement.replay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On avoiding use of commercial encryption products: In a session yesterday with a group of Japanese visiting the US to gather information on security products and export controls, a Westerner advised the group to avoid all commercial security products in any country, domestic or exportables, due to probability of being compromised. It was suggested instead to arrange a private service with a banking institution to covertly ride financial transactions, inland and external. Better was to arrange the same through military or governmental channels. Fees were claimed to be fairly reasonable depending on whether protection against national courts and counter-intelligence was needed at either origin or destination points. It was emphasized that these practices are now normal in countries where strongest info security was required for national economic protection against commercial and intelligence espionage, and that no one knowledgeable in the field would rely on commercial products from any source. The Western briefers were not identifed. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 12:55:54 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: Your local phone company (fwd) Message-ID: <199801210526.XAA30697@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > From: "Douglas R. Floyd" > Subject: Re: Your local phone company > Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 22:51:51 -0600 (CST) > "Modem Tax" revisited? By Jove, I think the boy has it...;) ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Rishab Aiyer Ghosh Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 04:30:11 +0800 To: "'Cypherpunks'" Subject: security and hidden networks (was On the LAM--Local Area Mixes) Message-ID: <01BD260F.18C88000@d850.pppdel.vsnl.net.in> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain summary this post suggests that technically, routing through a sub-network does not necessarily increase complexity or hinder traffic analysis, as it can be treated as a virtual node. given that, LAM-type networks may not provide much protection in a politically unkind environment. i also suggest a way of rating (or classifying) secure networks based on how well they hide suspect data and routes in other traffic. as this in response to tim may's LAM post, i'll respond quoting that. Tim May writes: >A message would enter the physical site, bounce around to N machines, and >exit, perhaps going to other machines and sites, and back again, etc. (The >image was of perhaps 20 or 30 cheap PCs linked with Ethernet in a set of >apartments in Berkeley--obtaining search warrants or court orders to allow >monitoring of all 20 or 30 machines, scattered across several physical >addresses, would be "problematic.") i won't repeat my objections to a reliance on "problematic" court orders, which i've made in another post. let us simply assume, for example, that i am the NSA, and i don't need court orders, but i'm a sneaky sort so i don't want to go in with guns blazing just yet. Alice has a network, alice.net, 10.1.1.0. she has many machines on this network, some hers, some belonging to Bob. when Alice and Bob plan stink-bomb attacks on the IRS (sorry, when they, or Li-Xia and Bu-pang, write articles on human rights violations in xinjiang) to Carol and David, outside their network, they first bounce their packets around their 30 machines. i sniff all packets going into and out of the network 10.1.1.0, from the upstream provider (Alice has her whole building in a faraday cage, which is ok because she never tries to use her mobile phone indoors). so. does it matter in the least, to me, whether alice wrote her last rant from kitchen.alice.net (10.1.1.1) or garage.alice.net (10.1.1.2) or whether it was actually Bob - Bob Inc, to be safe - from 10.1.1.33? it could matter politically/legally (if i wanted to prosecute) or technically (if i want to trace traffic down, to, from or through alice's net). technically first: it doesn't really matter. i treat alice's net as a hermetically sealed virtual "node"... >-- the routing topology of the site may be an interesting area to look at. >Ideally, a "Linda"-like broadcast topology (all machines see all packets, >like messages in a bottle thrown into the "sea") could have certain ... which is all the more correct topologically if broadcast addresses (10.1.1.255) are used. so i treat alice's net as a single node, and monitor traffic as it enters and leaves that "node". just as i would monitor traffic entering and leaving a single machine, without caring much which disk drive or memory bank it passed through. with a single physical entry and exit point to the network it can be treated exactly as if it were a single node for the purposes of any traffic analysis (security/traceability). multiple physical connections might complicate it slightly, but if i'm sniffing them all, and they connect to the same set of machines (i.e. the same network), not much (if it's IP the address spaces may differ but that's a minor matter). depending on what remailer math tells us - and we really do need remailer math, as tim pointed out! - bouncing traffic around sub-nets may have little impact on security. it could remain the same; i don't see how it could become much better; it could plausibly get worse, if multiple nodes in a single subnet can eat into your random route hops resulting in concentration of traffic through fewer virtual "nodes". the only situation in which this isn't true is if the source and destination of traffic are both within the sealed network - presumably what would happen most of the time with tim's suggestion of voice/high-bandwidth stuff. now for the political/legal bit. given that i'd like to see cypherpunk technology as daring enough to be of use outside western democracies, let's look at a slightly challenging situation. you're a bunch of people, each with your own firm for added safety, in this building. now i'm not a decent american cop, worried about court orders etc. ok, i don't exactly want to shoot all of you at once. but if i am satisfied (which i could be, using technical methods) that lots of "suspicious" stuff is coming from your network, then i'll certainly come in and reeducate you all on your "errors and distortions." (sorry, just finished a week of watching andrzej wajda films at a retrospective.) oho. it's a BIG building. and i don't really suspect all of you. ok, i go have a chat with the network admin - Alice - and hold her responsible. she has great respect for the government and police and would never write such a nasty thing as "the state tortures political prisoners?" uh oh. so i tell her that for the good of the country she must let someone listen in at her machine ("you didn't keep logs? ah, that was a mistake, no?") - i'm now inside, and the sealed network shrinks. of course if i'm impatient and don't believe her innocent approach, i just use the rubber hose. the same goes for multiple physical links into the same network. can _technology_ - rather than relying on law-abiding cops, and rights-abiding laws - provide a solution? the key is the BIG building. the more non-suspicious routes there are - i.e. a route through normal, unsuspected people, typically but not necessarily outside the physically well-protected area - the harder to usefully treat a network as a virtual node. looking at 10.1.1.0 as a node may help, just 256 people there; but 10.1.0.0 is a bit big to make a coherent "node" so although a LAM may be a great way to _test_ new tech and protocols out, i'd think it a big mistake to actually deploy it, as it were, on a large scale. it wouldn't help at all in the tough spots, and it would only serve to make the easier spots tougher, strengthening the immune system of would-be tyrannical states (i.e. the nicer western democracies). in general "WAMs" would be much more helpful and secure. the other thing that helps is of course the degree of non-suspicious traffic on suspected routes. putting them together, i think you can get some measure of the utility of a protocol and topology. the ideal would a) make it technically impossible to trace the route of suspicious traffic; and b) make it politically/legally difficult to prosecute originators/destinations of suspicious traffic. it would do this by a) blurring the distinction between suspicious and "regular" routes; and b) make it difficult to distinguish suspicious from harmless traffic on those routes; c) make it difficult or impossible to block suspicious routes or intercept/monitor suspicious traffic without causing unacceptable deterioration of service for "ordinary" traffic. two ratios seem useful to me as a way of organising cryptoanarchic network protocols. suspicious routes/ordinary routes; suspicious/ordinary traffic on any route. an ideal universal DC-Net with padding to keep constant throughput would have both ratios tending towards 1 - there is only one route - broadcast - for everyone; and traffic is constant so the degree of really suspicious stuff is unknown. pure Blacknet-type systems tend towards [1,0] - there is only one route, assuming everyone uses it. but without padding, you could suspect all traffic. Pipenet tends towards [0,1] - there are many routes, and they're all pretty suspicious as it's possible for the monitor to discriminate among them. but traffic is constant, so you don't know when to suspect. regards, rishab First Monday - The Peer-Reviewed Journal on the Internet http://www.firstmonday.dk/ Munksgaard International Publishers, Copenhagen Intl & Managing Editor - Rishab Aiyer Ghosh (ghosh@firstmonday.dk) Mobile +91 98110 14574; Fax +91 11 2209608; Tel +91 11 2454717 A4/204 Ekta Apts., 9 Indraprastha Extn, New Delhi 110092 INDIA From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Rishab Aiyer Ghosh Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 04:29:25 +0800 To: "'Cypherpunks'" Subject: politics of topology (was On the LAM--Local Area Mixes) Message-ID: <01BD260F.23755960@d850.pppdel.vsnl.net.in> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain m k gandhi used to say that it was good india was colonised by the _british_ - the poor fools were vulnerable to non-violent rational argument and (relatively) concerned about such oddities as human rights. one problem with tim may's idea for local area mixes is just that: relying on US stickliness on wimpy rules for search/interception is all very well, but wouldn't fly in china. i won't get into the argument over how awful the US state is here, but if all cypherpunk technology can fight is the "tyrannical" democracies of the west, it's not much good, IMNSHO. besides, if such technology becomes widespread in, say, the US, then it's inevitable that the authorities will tend towards more _real_ tyrannical behaviour, diluting search/seizure protections and taking you closer to china. a weak vaccine _strengthens_ the microbe it is supposed to kill. today your tech may let you plan stink-bomb attacks on the IRS in peace; tomorrow it may not be sufficient to let you publish articles critical of the goverment. i always thought the cypherpunk idea ("write code" etc) was to develop tech that is _independent_ of political protections. technology will not undermine the power of governments, if it is based on (incorrect) assumptions that governments will continue to restrain themselves (e.g. search & seizure) when faced by increasing use of such tech. i should think that LAMs would be excellent test-beds for larger-scale systems, but it is larger-scale systems, where you don't assume the government's _not_ snooping because it's squeamish, that matter more. best, -rishab First Monday - The Peer-Reviewed Journal on the Internet http://www.firstmonday.dk/ Munksgaard International Publishers, Copenhagen Intl & Managing Editor - Rishab Aiyer Ghosh (ghosh@firstmonday.dk) Mobile +91 98110 14574; Fax +91 11 2209608; Tel +91 11 2454717 A4/204 Ekta Apts., 9 Indraprastha Extn, New Delhi 110092 INDIA From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: sales&marketingproz@diku.dk Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 10:16:49 +0800 To: Subject: Certification Message-ID: <936969691232@hsd_cranemelon.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain "From: Steve Camfield, SME Board of Directors It is my privilege to formally invite you to become certified in sales or marketing management. Certification sends a clear message to your customers and colleagues that you are a true professional and have surpassed the highest standards of education, experience, and knowledge. For your convenience, I have placed full certification details and answers to questions you may have at www.selling.org (see Certification). ------------------------- SME is the non-profit worldwide association of sales and marketing management. Your address was provided to us by one of our chapters based on meeting attendance, inquiry, or suggestion by a local SME chapter board member but you may ensure removal by pressing the "Remove" option at the bottom of www.selling.org. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 10:08:03 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com Subject: Re: (eternity) Eternity as a secure filesystem/backup medium In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980117194905.008024e0@pobox1.stanford.edu> Message-ID: <199801210204.DAA02141@basement.replay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Bill Stewart writes: > >Do the math, though, for 128bit. There are traditional analyses > >which include the amount of silicon on the earth, the number of atoms > >in the universe, etc. The general consensus is that traditional > >techniques are not feasible for brute forcing 128bit ciphers before > >the heat death of the universe. > > Hard to say. Assuming that Quantum Cryptography doesn't allow > finite-sized computers to do large exponentially complex calculations > in short finite time, you're probably limited by the number of atoms > in the available supply of planets, and Heisenberg may still get you > if that's not a low enough limit. Moore's law isn't forever. A practical 128-bit key-cracker could be built with about 10000 cubic meters of silicon. (Figure one transistor per cubic micron, 1 ghz operation, do the math...) The technology to build a computer of that size is still a few years away, but it is theoretically possible to build a 128-bit key-cracker without using quantum computers or travelling to other planets. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 11:14:45 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Land Of The Freeh Message-ID: <199801210255.DAA07141@basement.replay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain News Of The Weird: >* Where's Barry Scheck When You Need Him? Malvin Marshall, >27, was finally released from jail in North Charleston, S.C., on >October 29 after being locked up for 6 weeks because a police field >test had found that he had heroin in his pocket. The state lab had >finally gotten around to analyzing the substance, which was >determined to be vitamin pills that had gone through a wash cycle >while in his pants pocket. Said a police lieutenant, "The field test >[is] not foolproof." COPYRIGHT: Neither the name News of the Weird nor any issue, or portion, of News of the Weird may be used for commercial purpose . "Any commercial purpose" includes something as small as a bartered advertisement on a Web page. If you have a Web page or a mailing list that you run purely as a hobby at entirely your own expense, and it is freely accessible by the public with , you may use portions of News of the Weird without express permission provided that the portion(s) is(are) (1) not edited, (2) distinctly separated from material that is from News of the Weird, and (3) identified on the Web site or message as from News of the Weird and with this copyright notice affixed: Copyright 1997 by Universal Press Syndicate. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: pgut001@cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 23:37:38 +0800 To: cryptography@c2.net Subject: [Long] How to recover private keys for various Microsoft products Message-ID: <88531016604880@cs26.cs.auckland.ac.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain How to recover private keys for Microsoft Internet Explorer, Internet Information Server, Outlook Express, and many others - or - Where do your encryption keys want to go today? Peter Gutmann, Summary ------- Microsoft uses two different file formats to protect users private keys, the original (unnamed) format which was used in older versions of MSIE, IIS, and other software and which is still supported for backwards-compatibility reasons in newer versions, and the newer PFX/PKCS #12 format. Due to a number of design and implementation flaws in Microsofts software, it is possible to break the security of both of these formats and recover users private keys, often in a matter of seconds. In addition, a major security hole in Microsofts CryptoAPI means that many keys can be recovered without even needing to break the encryption. These attacks do not rely for their success on the presence of weak, US-exportable encryption, they also affect US versions. As a result of these flaws, no Microsoft internet product is capable of protecting a users keys from hostile attack. By combining the attacks described below with widely-publicised bugs in MSIE which allow hostile sites to read the contents of users hard drives or with an ActiveX control, a victim can have their private key sucked off their machine and the encryption which "protects" it broken at a remote site without their knowledge. Once an attacker has obtained a users private key in this manner, they have effectively stolen their (digitial) identity, and can use it to digitally sign contracts and agreements, to recover every encryption session key it's ever protected in the past and will ever protect in the future, to access private and confidential email, and so on and so on. The ease with which this attack can be carried out represents a critical weakness which compromises all other encryption components on web servers and browsers - once the private key is compromised, all security services which depend on it are also compromised. A really clever attacker might even do the following: - Use (say) an MSIE bug to steal someones ActiveX code signing key. - Decrypt it using one of the attacks described below. - Use it to sign an ActiveX control which steals other peoples keys. - Put it on a web page and wait. On the remote chance that the ActiveX control is discovered (which is extremely unlikely, since it runs and deletes itself almost instantly, and can't be stopped even with the highest "security" setting in MSIE), the attack will be blamed on the person the key was stolen from rather than the real attacker. This demonstrates major problems in both Microsoft's private key security (an attacker can decrypt, and therefore misuse, your private key), and ActiveX security (an attacker can create an effectively unstoppable malicious ActiveX control and, on the remote chance that it's ever discovered, ensure that someone else takes the blame). Background ---------- About a year ago I posted an article on how to break Netscape's (then) server key encryption to the cypherpunks list (Netscape corrected this problem at about the same time as I posted the article). However more than a year after the code was published, and 2 1/2 years after a similar problem with Windows .PWL file encryption was publicised, Microsoft are still using exactly the same weak, easily-broken data format to "protect" users private keys. To break this format I simply dusted off my year-old software, changed the "Netscape" strings to "Microsoft", and had an encryption-breaker which would recover most private keys "protected" with this format in a matter of seconds. In addition to the older format, newer Microsoft products also support the PKCS #12 format (which they originally called PFX), which Microsoft render as useless as the older format by employing the RC2 cipher with a 40-bit key. In a truly egalitarian manner, this same level of "security" is used worldwide, ensuring that even US users get no security whatsoever when storing their private keys. However even RC2/40 can take awhile to break (the exact definition of "a while" depends on how much computing power you have available, for most non-funded attackers it ranges from a few hours to a few days). Fortunately, there are enough design flaws in PKCS #12 and bugs in Microsofts implementation to ensure that we can ignore the encryption key size. This has the useful - to an attacker - side-effect that even if Microsoft switch to using RC2/128 or triple DES for the encryption, it doesn't make the attackers task any more difficult. By combining the code to break the PKCS #12 format with the code mentioned above which breaks the older format, we obtain a single program which, when run on either type of key file, should be able to recover the users private keys from most files in a matter of seconds. A (somewhat limited) example of this type of program is available in source code form from http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/breakms.c. Because it's meant as a proof-of-concept program it's somewhat crude, and restricted to recovering passwords which are single dictionary words. Note: This does not mean that using (say) two words as a password instead of one will protect your private key. All it means is that I haven't bothered to write anything more sophisticated - no doubt anyone who was serious about this could adapt something like cracklib's password-generation rules and routines to provide a more comprehensive and powerful type of attack. Similarly, by making trivial changes to the key file data format it's possible to fool the program until someone makes an equally trivial change to the program to track the format change - this is meant as a demonstrator only, not a do-everything encryption breaker. To use the program, compile and invoke it with: breakms Here's what the output should look like (some of the lines have been trimmed a bit): File is a PFX/PKCS #12 key file. Encrypted data is 1048 bytes long. The password which was used to encrypt this Microsoft PFX/PKCS #12 file is 'orthogonality'. Modulus = 00BB6FE79432CC6EA2D8F970675A5A87BFBE1AFF0BE63E879F2AFFB93644D [...] Public exponent = 010001 Private exponent = 6F05EAD2F27FFAEC84BEC360C4B928FD5F3A9865D0FCAAD291E2 [...] Prime 1 = 00F3929B9435608F8A22C208D86795271D54EBDFB09DDEF539AB083DA912D [...] Prime 2 = 00C50016F89DFF2561347ED1186A46E150E28BF2D0F539A1594BBD7FE4674 [...] Exponent 1 = 009E7D4326C924AFC1DEA40B45650134966D6F9DFA3A7F9D698CD4ABEA [...] Exponent 2 = 00BA84003BB95355AFB7C50DF140C60513D0BA51D637272E355E397779 [...] Coefficient = 30B9E4F2AFA5AC679F920FC83F1F2DF1BAF1779CF989447FABC2F5628 [...] Someone sent me a test Microsoft key they had created with MSIE 3.0 and the program took just a few seconds to recover the password used to encrypt the file. One excuse offered by Microsoft is that Windows NT has access control lists (ACL's) for files which can be used to protect against this attacks and the one described below. However this isn't notably useful: Most users will be running Windows '95 which doesn't have ACL's, of the small remainder using NT most won't bother setting the ACL's, and in any case since the attack is coming from software running as the current user (who has full access to the file), the ACL's have no effect. The ACL issue is merely a red herring, and offers no further protection. Further Attacks (information provided by Steve Henson ) --------------- There is a further attack possible which works because Microsoft's security products rely on the presence of the Microsoft CryptoAPI, which has a wonderful function called CryptExportKey(). This function hands over a users private key to anyone who asks for it. The key is encrypted under the current user, so any other program running under the user can obtain their private key with a single function call. For example an ActiveX control on a web page could ask for the current users key, ship it out to a remote site, and then delete itself from the system leaving no trace of what happened, a bit like the mail.exe program I wrote about 2 years ago which did the same thing for Windows passwords. If the control is signed, there's no way to stop it from running even with the highest security level selected in MSIE, and since it immediately erases all traces of its existence the code signing is worthless. Newer versions of the CryptoAPI which come with MSIE 4 allow the user to set a flag (CRYPT_USER_PROTECTED) which specifies that the key export function should be protected with no protection (the default), user notification, or password protection. However the way this is implemented makes it pretty much useless. Firstly, if the certificate request script used to generate the key doesn't set this flag, you end up with the default of "no protection" (and the majority of users will just use the default of "no protection" anyway). Although Microsoft claim that "reputable CA's won't forget to set this flag", a number of CA's tested (including Verisign) don't bother to set it (does this mean that Microsoft regard Verisign as a disreputable CA? :-). Because of this, they don't even provide the user with the option of selecting something other than "no security whatsoever". In addition at least one version of CryptoAPI would allow the "user notification" level of security to be bypassed by deleting the notification dialog resource from memory so that the call would quietly fail and the key would be exported anyway (this is fairly tricky to do and involves playing with the CPU's page protection mechanism, there are easier ways to get the key than this). Finally, the "password protection" level of security asks for the password a whopping 16 (yes, *sixteen*) times when exporting the key, even though it only needs to do this once. After about the fifth time the user will probably click on the "remember password" box, moving them back to zero security until they reboot the machine and clear the setting, since the key will be exported with no notification or password check once the box is clicked. To check which level of security you have, try exporting your key certificate. If there's no warning/password dialog, you have zero security for your key, and don't even need to use the encryption-breaking technique I describe elsewhere in this article. Any web page you browse could be stealing your key (through an embedded ActiveX control) without you ever being aware of it. Details on Breaking the Older Format ------------------------------------ The Microsoft key format is very susceptible to both a dictionary attack and to keystream recovery. It uses the PKCS #8 format for private keys, which provides a large amount of known plaintext at the start of the data, in combination with RC4 without any form of IV or other preprocessing (even though PKCS #8 recommends that PKCS #5 password-based encryption be used), which means you can recover the first 100-odd bytes of key stream with a simple XOR (the same mistake they made with their .PWL files, which was publicised 2 1/2 years earlier). Although the password is hashed with MD5 (allowing them to claim the use of a 128-bit key), the way the key is applied provides almost no security. This means two things: 1. It's very simple to write a program to perform a dictionary attack on the server key (it originally took me about half an hour using cryptlib, http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/cryptlib/, another half hour to rip the appropriate code out of cryptlib to create a standalone program, and a few minutes to retarget the program from Netscape to Microsoft). 2. The recovered key stream from the encrypted server key can be used to decrypt any other resource encrypted with the server password, *without knowing the password*. This is because there's enough known plaintext (ASN.1 objects, object identifiers, and public key components) at the start of the encrypted data to recover large quantities of key stream. This means that even if you use a million-bit encryption key, an attacker can still recover at least the first 100 bytes of anything you encrypt without needing to know your key (Frank Stevenson's glide.exe program uses this to recover passwords from Windows .PWL files in a fraction of a second). The problem here is caused by a combination of the PKCS #8 format (which is rather nonoptimal for protecting private keys) and the use of RC4 to encryt fixed, known plaintext. Since everything is constant, you don't even need to run the password-transformation process more than once - just store a dictionary of the resulting key stream for each password in a database, and you can break the encryption with a single lookup (this would be avoided by the use of PKCS #5 password-based encryption, which iterates the key setup and uses a salt to make a precomputed dictionary attack impossible. PKCS #5 states that its primary intended application is for protecting private keys, but Microsoft (and Netscape) chose not to use this and went with straight RC4 encryption instead). This is exactly the same problem which came up with Microsoft's .PWL file encryption in 1995, and yet in the 2 1/2 years since I exposed this problem they still haven't learnt from their previous mistakes. For the curious (and ASN.1-aware), here's what the data formats look like. First there's the outer encapsulation which Microsoft use to wrap up the encrypted key: MicrosoftKey ::= SEQUENCE { identifier OCTET STRING ('private-key'), encryptedPrivateKeyInfo EncryptedPrivateKeyInfo } Inside this is a PKCS #8 private key: EncryptedPrivateKeyInfo ::= SEQUENCE { encryptionAlgorithm EncryptionAlgorithmIdentifier, encryptedData EncryptedData } EncryptionAlgorithmIdentifier ::= AlgorithmIdentifier EncryptedData = OCTET STRING Now the EncryptionAlgorithmIdentifier is supposed to be something like pbeWithMD5AndDES, with an associated 64-bit salt and iteration count, but Microsoft (and Netscape) ignored this and used straight rc4 with no salt or iteration count. The EncryptedData decrypts to: PrivateKeyInfo ::= SEQUENCE { version Version privateKeyAlgorithm PrivateKeyAlgorithmIdentifier privateKey PrivateKey attributes [ 0 ] IMPLICIT Attributes OPTIONAL } Version ::= INTEGER PrivateKeyAlgorithmIdentifier ::= AlgorithmIdentifier PrivateKey ::= OCTET STRING Attributes ::= SET OF Attribute (and so on and so on, I haven't bothered going down any further). One thing worth noting is that Microsoft encode the AlgorithmIdentifier incorrectly by omitting the parameters, these should be encoded as a NULL value if there are no parameters. In this they differ from Netscape, indicating that both companies managed to independently come up with the same broken key storage format. Wow. For people picking apart the inner key, Microsoft also encode their ASN.1 INTEGERs incorrectly, so you need to be aware of this when reading out the data. Details on Breaking the PFX/PKCS #12 Format ------------------------------------------- The PFX/PKCS #12 format is vastly more complex (and braindamaged) than the older format. You can find an overview of some of the bletcherousness in this format at http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pfx.html. After Microsoft originally designed the format (calling it PFX) and presented it to the world as a fait accompli, cleanup crews from other companies rushed in and fixed some of the worst problems and security flaws. However by this time Microsoft had already shipped implementations which were based on the earlier version with all its flaws and holes, and didn't want to change their code any more. A side-effect of this was that to be compatible, other vendors had to copy Microsofts bugs rather than produce an implementation in accordance with the standard. Newer versions of the standard have now been amended to define the implementation bugs as a part of the standard. Anyway, as a result of this it's possible to mount three independant types of attack on Microsoft's PFX/PKCS #12 keys: 1. Attack the RC2/40 encryption used in all versions, even the US-only one. 2. Attack the MAC used to protect the entire file. Since the same password is used for the MAC and the encrypted key, recovering the MAC password also recovers the password used to encrypt the private key. The cleanup crews added a MAC iteration count to make this attack harder, but Microsoft ignored it. 3. Attack the private key encryption key directly. Like the MAC's, this also has an interation count. Microsoft don't use it. Even if one of these flaws is fixed, an attacker can simply switch over and concentrate on a different flaw. I decided to see which one could be implemented the most efficiently. Obviously (1) was out (you need to perform 2^39 RC2 key schedules on average to find the key), which left (2) and (3). With the refinements I'm about to describe, it turns out that an attack on the private key encryption is significantly more efficient than an attack on the MAC. To understand how the attack works, you need to look at how PKCS #12 does its key processing. The original PFX spec included only some very vague thoughts on how to do this. In later PKCS #12 versions this evolved into a somewhat garbled offshoot of the PKCS #5 and TLS key processing methods. To decrypt data which is "protected" using the PKCS #12 key processing, you need to do the following: construct a 64-byte "diversifier" (which differs depending on whether you want to set up a key or an IV) and hash it; stretch the salt out to 64 bytes and hash it after the diversifier hash; stretch the password out to 64 bytes (using incorrect processing of the text string, this is one of Microsofts implementation bugs which has now become enshrined in the standard) and hash it after the salt hash; complete the hash and return the resulting value as either the key or the IV, depending on the diversifier setting; (it's actually rather more complex than that, this is a stripped-down version which is equivalent to what Microsoft use). This process is carried out twice, once for the key and once for the IV. The hashing is performed using SHA-1, and each of the two invocations of the process require 4 passes through the SHA-1 compression function, for a total of 8 passes through the function. Because the PKCS #12 spec conveniently requires that all data be stretched out to 64 bytes, which happens to be the data block size for SHA-1, there's no need for the input processing which is usually required for SHA-1 so we can strip this code out and feed the data directly into the compression function. Thus the compression function (along with the RC2 key setup) is the limiting factor for the speed of an attack. Obviously we want to reduce the effort required as much as possible. As it turns out, we can eliminate 6 of the 8 passes, cutting our workload by 75%. First, we observe that the the diversifier is a constant value, so instead of setting it up and hashing it, we precompute the hash and store the hash value. This eliminates the diversifier, and one pass through SHA-1. Next, we observe that the salt never changes for the file being attacked, so again instead of setting it up and hashing it, we precompute the hash and store the hash value. This eliminates the diversifier, and another pass through SHA-1. Finally, all that's left is the password. This requires two passes through the compression function, one for the password (again conveniently stretched to 64 bytes) and a second one to wrap up the hashing. In theory we'd need to repeat this process twice, once to generate the decryption key and a second time to generate the decryption IV which is used to encrypt the data in CBC mode. However the start of the decrypted plaintext is: SEQUENCE { SEQUENCE { OBJECT IDENTIFIER, ... and the SEQUENCE is encoded as 30 82 xx xx (where xx xx are the length bytes). This means the first 8 bytes will be 30 82 xx xx 30 82 xx xx, and will be followed by the object identifier. We can therefore skip the first 8 bytes and, using them as the IV, decrypt the second 8 bytes and check for the object identifier. This eliminates the second PKCS #12 key initialisation call which is normally required to generate the IV. As this analysis (and the program) shows, Microsoft managed to design a "security" format in which you can eliminate 75% of the encryption processing work while still allowing an attack on the encrypted data. To make it even easier for an attacker, they then dumbed the key down to only 40 bits, even in the US-only version of the software. In fact this doesn't really have any effect on security, even if they used 128-bit RC2 or triple DES or whatever, it would provide no extra security thanks to the broken key processing. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Information Security Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 18:26:21 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: Latest smartcard software Message-ID: <199801211005.FAA12259@panix2.panix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > From cypherpunks-errors@toad.com Wed Jan 21 03:38:35 1998 > > The Independent Smartcard Developer Association, the only non-vendor > controlled smartcard related industry organization, announces their latest > release of SIO/STEST. > > SIO/STEST is a developer toolkit that provides drivers for most popular > smartcard readers as well as card support for a wide range of crypto > capable smartcards. SIO/STEST provides the tools required by the > application programmer to integrate smartcards with their application. > > As always, your feedback is appreciated. Is this for a "cypherpunks" smartcard, or for hacking them? Smartcards tend to be transponders, and to want to gobble up all other cards...bad card, bad card. Excerpt from the Cryptography Manifesto enclosed. ---guy Consider it an NSA proposal to issue everyone a Universal Biometrics Card. Everyone in the world. # By John Walker -- kelvin@fourmilab.ch, Revision 8 -- February 28th, 1994 # # Operationally, the Universal Biometrics Card serves as the cardholder's # identification for all forms of transactions and # interactions. It can potentially replace all the # following forms of identification and credentials: # # Passport and visas # House and car keys # Driver's license and automobile registration(s) # Employee ID card # Bank credit, debit, and automatic teller cards # Health insurance card # Medical history/blood type/organ donor cards # Automobile insurance card # Telephone credit card(s) # Membership card for clubs, museums, etc. # Frequent flyer club card(s) and flight coupons # Car rental discount card(s) # Train, bus, airplane, toll road and bridge tickets # Airline flight boarding pass # Train and bus pass and subscription card # WHO immunisation certificate # Personal telephone directory # Personal telephone number # Passwords for access to computers, data services, and networks # Software subscription access keys # Cable and satellite TV subscriptions # Cellular phone and personal digital assistant personal ID # Encryption keys for secure electronic mail, phone, and FAX # Electronic signature key # # Cash # # Of course, use of the Universal Biometrics # Card will start out as voluntary... They'll say hey, you've already surrendered your biometric number during fingerprinting for driver's licenses. It will be too late. The high-tech American Leviathan will be in place. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: phelix@vallnet.com Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 15:42:03 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Re: [Long] How to recover private keys for various Microsoft products In-Reply-To: <88531016604880@cs26.cs.auckland.ac.nz> Message-ID: <34c5a027.243529486@128.2.84.191> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On 20 Jan 1998 23:19:36 -0600, pgut001@cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann) wrote: > How to recover private keys for Microsoft Internet Explorer, Internet > Information Server, Outlook Express, and many others > - or - > Where do your encryption keys want to go today? > > Peter Gutmann, > As if there wasn't enough incentive to steal private keys, here's a little diddy from news.com (Where do your stocks want to go today?): MS pushes NT for securities By Tim Clark January 20, 1998, 5:25 p.m. PT update Pushing into Sun Microsystems' (SUNW) territory, Microsoft (MSFT) said today it will expand its Windows DNA for Financial Services framework (DNA-FS) beyond banking and into the securities industry. Microsoft's goal: to sell its Windows NT Server software as a platform to automate all the paperwork involved in buying and selling securities, a market which Sun has dominated. The company also hopes to gain from the consolidation trend among banks, stock brokerages, and insurance companies. "Sun is the competitor in this market," Microsoft's Matt Conners, worldwide securities industry manager, said. In a related announcement, Tibco, owned by Reuters, will port its financial messaging middleware to the Windows NT Server platform. Hewlett-Packard will support deployments of Tibco's system with the consulting and PC servers. The announcements, part of Microsoft's effort to move its technologies into vertical industries that Unix has dominated, came in Bill Gates's address by satellite today at a financial services conference in London. DNA stands for Distributed interNet Applications for Financial Services (DNA-FS), a software framework that allows software components to connect to mainframes, WebTV systems, and other computers. Gates also today reiterated Microsoft's plans to ship a second beta test version of its Windows NT 5.0 operating system by mid-year, followed by the final version within six to nine months afterwards. "We're doing very well on the desktop--we've replaced a lot of Unix workstations," Conners said, estimating that in the retail brokerage segment, more than a quarter of desktops run NT Server. Those figures are boosted by Merrill Lynch and Smith Barney using NT in their retail operations. "It's probably less on trading floors." Far less, says Rob Hall, vice president in Sun's unit that sells to the securities industry. "The trading floor is still predominantly Sun, and we see our Darwin entry-level workstation, and especially our thin client technology and products offering us a chance to grow that market share," said Hall. Sun's competing architecture for securities firms is called Sun Connect, which was demonstrated last June at the Security Industries Association trade show. Microsoft hopes to demonstrate its DNA-FS architecture at this year's SIA show. Hall said Sun Connect embraces Java-based network computers (NCs), not just Windows desktop machines. Wall Street has strongly endorsed Java, according to recent surveys, and Hall called Microsoft's failure to address Java in DNA-FS "a glaring omission." Like Microsoft's DNA-FS, Sun Connect also targets the convergence in financial services--banks, insurers, and brokerages getting into one another's businesses, often through mergers or acquisitions. Microsoft's immediate goal is to create NT-based solutions to the so-called Straight-Through Processing (STP) problem. Stock trades must wend through multiple computer systems at different companies, a system that is not fully automated. Microsoft hopes its partners, such as Tibco, will build NT software to streamline transactions by passing digital information from one computer system to another and by minimizing paperwork. The underlying technology in Microsoft's effort is Component Object Management or COM, which puts information into digital wrappers that can be passed from computer to computer, including mainframes and Unix machines. Sun's Hall faulted Microsoft's initiative for relying on its COM architecture, used in Windows but not endorsed by an industry standards group such as Open Group, which backs CORBA for similar purposes. Today's announcement expands DNA-FS, which was announced last month for banking, to the broader securities market. A similar effort in the insurance industry, called OLifE, also will be grouped under the broader DNA-FS framework. "The goal of DNA FS is not to facilitate convergence of industries at all; but it's clear those industries will converge," Conners said. "DNA FS will be a technical solution for when those industries converge to be able to plug in software." Tibco's involvement is key because it has 400 customers and about half the market for trading floor software. The port to NT Server will take less than a year, Conners said. Several software vendors backing Windows DNA-FS for securities include Advent Software, Comprehensive Software Systems, Dow Jones Markets, and Financial Technology International. Microsoft and partners hope to reduce the costs of processing transactions by building on established standards in the financial services industry. Reuters contributed to this report From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 16:20:11 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: RC2 C++ source code Message-ID: <199801210756.IAA06610@basement.replay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain RC2 VC++ source code #include #include void RC2Keyschedule::schedule ( unsigned short K[64], const unsigned char L[128], unsigned T8, unsigned TM ) { unsigned char x; unsigned i; /* 256-entry permutation table, probably derived somehow from pi */ static const unsigned char PITABLE[256] = { 217,120,249,196, 25,221,181,237, 40,233,253,121, 74,160,216,157, 198,126, 55,131, 43,118, 83,142, 98, 76,100,136, 68,139,251,162, 23,154, 89,245,135,179, 79, 19, 97, 69,109,141, 9,129,125, 50, 189,143, 64,235,134,183,123, 11,240,149, 33, 34, 92,107, 78,130, 84,214,101,147,206, 96,178, 28,115, 86,192, 20,167,140,241,220, 18,117,202, 31, 59,190,228,209, 66, 61,212, 48,163, 60,182, 38, 111,191, 14,218, 70,105, 7, 87, 39,242, 29,155,188,148, 67, 3, 248, 17,199,246,144,239, 62,231, 6,195,213, 47,200,102, 30,215, 8,232,234,222,128, 82,238,247,132,170,114,172, 53, 77,106, 42, 150, 26,210,113, 90, 21, 73,116, 75,159,208, 94, 4, 24,164,236, 194,224, 65,110, 15, 81,203,204, 36,145,175, 80,161,244,112, 57, 153,124, 58,133, 35,184,180,122,252, 2, 54, 91, 37, 85,151, 49, 45, 93,250,152,227,138,146,174, 5,223, 41, 16,103,108,186,201, 211, 0,230,207,225,158,168, 44, 99, 22, 1, 63, 88,226,137,169, 13, 56, 52, 27,171, 51,255,176,187, 72, 12, 95,185,177,205, 46, 197,243,219, 71,229,165,156,119, 10,166, 32,104,254,127,193,173 }; assert(len > 0 && len <= 128); assert(bits <= 1024); if (!bits) bits = 1024; memcpy(xkey, key, len); for (i = 0; i < 128; i++) { L[i] = PITABLE[L[i-1] + L[i-T]]; } T8 = (T1+7) >> 3; TM = 255 MOD 2^(8 + T1 - 8*T8); L[128-T8] = PITABLE[L[128-T8] & TM]; for (i = 0; i < 127-T8; i++) { L[i] = PITABLE[L[i+1] XOR L[i+T8]]; }; i = 63; K[i] = L[2*i] + 256*L[2*i+1]; }; void RC2Encryption::ProcessBlock ( const unsigned short K[64], ) { unsigned R3, R2, R1, R0, i; for (i = 0; i < 16; i++) { R0 += (R1 & ~R3) + (R2 & R3) + K[4*i-0]; R0 = R0 << 1; R1 += (R2 & ~R0) + (R3 & R0) + K[4*i-1]; R1 = R1 << 2; R2 += (R3 & ~R1) + (R0 & R1) + K[4*i-2]; R2 = R2 << 3; R3 += (R0 & ~R2) + (R1 & R2) + K[4*i-3]; R3 = R3 << 5; if (i == 4 || i == 10) { R0 += K[R3 & 63]; R1 += K[R0 & 63]; R2 += K[R1 & 63]; R3 += K[R2 & 63]; } } void RC2Decryption::ProcessBlock ( const unsigned short K[64], ) { unsigned R3, R2, R1, R0, i; for (i = 0; i < 16; i++) { R3 = R3 << 5; R3 += (R0 & ~R2) + (R1 & R2) + K[4*i+3]; R2 = R2 << 3; R2 += (R3 & ~R1) + (R0 & R1) + K[4*i+2]; R1 = R1 << 2; R1 += (R2 & ~R0) + (R3 & R0) + K[4*i+1]; R0 = R0 << 1; R0 += (R1 & ~R3) + (R2 & R3) + K[4*i+0]; if (i == 4 || i == 10) { R3 -= K[R2 & 63]; R2 -= KR1 & 63]; R1 -= K[R0 & 63]; R0 -= K[R3 & 63]; } } From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Lucky Green Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 16:37:00 +0800 To: cryptography@c2.net Subject: Latest smartcard software Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain The Independent Smartcard Developer Association, the only non-vendor controlled smartcard related industry organization, announces their latest release of SIO/STEST. SIO/STEST is a developer toolkit that provides drivers for most popular smartcard readers as well as card support for a wide range of crypto capable smartcards. SIO/STEST provides the tools required by the application programmer to integrate smartcards with their application. Current release: 1.11e (January 20, 1998) Changes: - added support for GSM SIM's - additional Chipknip support - Schlumberger reader support As alwasy, your feedback is appreciated. Thanks, -- Lucky Green PGP v5 encrypted email preferred. "Tonga? Where the hell is Tonga? They have Cypherpunks there?" From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: ? the Platypus {aka David Formosa} Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 15:40:00 +0800 To: Markus Kuhn Subject: Re: Locating radio receivers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On Sat, 17 Jan 1998, Markus Kuhn wrote: > Kay Ping wrote on 1998-01-16 22:02 UTC: > > Radio links are perfect for hiding the location of receivers. [...] > As Peter Wright reported in his autobiography, British counterintelligence > (MI5) used vans and planes IIRC the BBC uses such vans to detect unlicened recivers in Brition. (However I have also heard that such vans are more effective at spreading FUD). - -- Please excuse my spelling as I suffer from agraphia see the url in my header. Never trust a country with more peaple then sheep. ex-net.scum and proud You Say To People "Throw Off Your Chains" And They Make New Chains For Themselves? --Terry Pratchett. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBNMWHZKQK0ynCmdStAQFukQQAqRsMoLTPkunuFQWoyzvG7vLtRNEh0Xgf L/V/J9/O6PeCKXZhURMdR9FHQvsZ7ETS677LsuAdapoS+swwtRxWhwHBXdJkDa3M Oyz23S4Q3QR5WtvfRz7gj843yjpig7Hm/mwVUMTmUXC+lp6TXmKJAH/vFHyOkxPl CgFsMHGFUN0= =DeXr -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Bill Stewart Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 05:11:49 +0800 To: Lucky Green Subject: Re: British Ministers Adopt Unbreakable Crypto In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980120112722.00864320@popd.ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 08:18 PM 1/19/98 -0800, Tim May wrote: >At 7:53 PM -0800 1/19/98, Lucky Green wrote: >>I asked the exhibitor if the scanner would grant access to a hand not >>attached to the body. At first, the exhibitor paled and replied that if a ... >Well, the droids they hire to man their booths are Happy People. Sometime in the late 80s I was at some computer security conference that had some presentations on biometrics; the issue of body parts no longer attached to original-condition bodies was brought up by several of the exhibitors (I think they were checking for pulse while scanning fingerprints, for example.) As Tim said, the James Bond movie was old by then, and also the military and other Feds have been early enthusiasts for biometric identifiers - if the KGB is bothered by detached hands, it's because it takes longer than just carrying the guard's body across the room, and the bloodstains might be noticed faster than a "sleeping" guard. Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Steve Schear Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 05:44:57 +0800 To: cryptography@c2.net Subject: Re: [Long] How to recover private keys for various Microsoftproducts In-Reply-To: <88531016604880@cs26.cs.auckland.ac.nz> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 4:29 AM +0000 1/21/98, Peter Gutmann wrote: > How to recover private keys for Microsoft Internet Explorer, Internet > Information Server, Outlook Express, and many others > - or - > Where do your encryption keys want to go today? > > Peter Gutmann, > >Summary >------- > >Microsoft uses two different file formats to protect users private keys, the >original (unnamed) format which was used in older versions of MSIE, IIS, and >other software and which is still supported for backwards-compatibility reasons >in newer versions, and the newer PFX/PKCS #12 format. Due to a number of >design and implementation flaws in Microsofts software, it is possible to break >the security of both of these formats and recover users private keys, often in >a matter of seconds. In addition, a major security hole in Microsofts >CryptoAPI means that many keys can be recovered without even needing to break >the encryption. These attacks do not rely for their success on the presence of >weak, US-exportable encryption, they also affect US versions. > >As a result of these flaws, no Microsoft internet product is capable of >protecting a users keys from hostile attack. By combining the attacks >described below with widely-publicised bugs in MSIE which allow hostile sites >to read the contents of users hard drives or with an ActiveX control, a victim >can have their private key sucked off their machine and the encryption which >"protects" it broken at a remote site without their knowledge. > Seems a good way to teach M$ a security lesson is to use Peter's code to snatch M$' ant significant keys on their corporate servers and publish. Of course, they're probably too smart to leave important data just lying around on unsecure '95/NT servers and instead use Linux ;-) --Steve From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Declan McCullagh Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 03:59:53 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Gore Commission wants to regulate the Net like broadcast Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 13:28:24 -0800 (PST) From: Declan McCullagh To: politech@vorlon.mit.edu Subject: FC: Gore Commission wants to regulate the Net like broadcast ************* Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:20:23 -0500 From: Alan Moseley To: declan@well.com Subject: the Gore Commission and digital media The Gore Commission -- the group created by Clinton to determine the future public interest obligations of digital TV broadcasters -- showed signs last week of broadening its reach to include other digital media that can deliver broadcast-like audio and video. Significantly, the group discussed the possibility of including other digital media in their recommendations after viewing a demonstration of the Internet's potential to provide audio and video. If digital TV broadcasters can be made to serve some notion of the "public interest" through government-mandated programming and restrictions on programming, is it not a short step for the government to regulate other digital content-providers? This group should be watched carefully as they discuss future regulations on digital speech. The Media Institute (http://www.mediainst.org), a First Amendment advocacy group based in Washington, has issued the following press release on this subject: --------------------- Media Institute's Public Interest Council Sees Danger in Gore Commission Suggestion Washington, Jan. 20 -- The prospect of extending government-mandated public interest obligations beyond the broadcasting industry, raised in comments by the co-chairman of the Gore Commission, illustrates both the lack of justification for and danger in these proceedings, The Media Institute's Public Interest Council said today. The Council was reacting to comments last Friday by Norman Ornstein, co-chairman of the Advisory Committee on Public Interest Obligations of Digital Television Broadcasters, at an open meeting of the group in Washington. Following a demonstration of "video streaming" Internet technology and a discussion of digital convergence, Ornstein noted that mandatory public interest obligations on broadcasters may not be sufficient. He suggested that the Advisory Committee (popularly known as the Gore Commission) might want to examine the public interest role of other digital media as well. Ornstein questioned "whether we should be making this really firm distinction, saddling broadcasters...with heavy public interest obligations, and letting others get off scot-free." Media Institute President Patrick D. Maines, speaking for the Institute's Public Interest Council, challenged that idea: "The mere mention of that possibility -- extending the 'public interest' rationale to other media -- should raise alarms for anyone who values our country's constitutional guarantees of free speech and free press. "We already have a presidential commission considering whether to recommend additional public interest obligations for broadcasters solely because they will be converting to digital technology. Mr. Ornstein's comments illustrate the ominous ease with which government might attempt to impose so-called public interest obligations on other types of digital media, such as on-line information services, DBS, cable, and perhaps even newspapers that are digitally transmitted to printing plants," Maines said. "The Gore Commission is correct to note that over-the-air television is far from the only medium serving today's consumer. That felicitous fact, however, ought to lead the Commission to recommend a lessening of the obligations on broadcasters, not an increase on broadcasters and everyone else." The recent experience of the Communications Decency Act demonstrates the government's willingness to control digital speech. The digital convergence argument could be a new rationale for further such interventions, Maines warned. Maines spoke on behalf of The Media Institute's Public Interest Council, a four-member group created recently to study the public interest question and to follow the work of the Gore Commission. Members include communications attorneys Robert Corn-Revere and J. Laurent Scharff, and constitutional scholars Robert M. O'Neil and Laurence H. Winer. Information about The Media Institute, its Public Interest Council, and the Gore Commission is available on-line at http://www.mediainst.org. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- POLITECH -- the moderated mailing list of politics and technology To subscribe: send a message to majordomo@vorlon.mit.edu with this text: subscribe politech More information is at http://www.well.com/~declan/politech/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Mark Rogaski Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 04:40:55 +0800 To: sherman@cs.umbc.edu Subject: Re: $50 encryption policy contest In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801202332.SAA15787@deathstar.jabberwock.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- An entity claiming to be Dr. Alan Sherman wrote: : : 3. (**important**) The page of submitted questions must have a means : by which anyone can score the quality of the question on a scale : of 1 to 5 (say, by clicking on the appropriate score button), with : 5 being the highest score. For each question, its median score : must be displayed. Questions must be listed in order of : decreasing median scores. : I'm amused by how this requirement was thrown in. Never even mentioned in the overview. So, what you're looking for is some kid who will work for peanuts writing some CGI scripts for you. This comes off as an insult. Mark - -- [] Mark Rogaski "That which does not kill me [] wendigo@pobox.com only makes me stranger." [] [] finger wendigo@deathstar.jabberwock.org for PGP key [] anti spambot: postmaster@localhost abuse@localhost uce@ftc.gov -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBNMU0CnzbrFts6CmBAQF8JQf/ZK6rxt77tLCf6C7cvG2JBm/Fx9VFhZ6F 88JGqUWCdA51ihErVuxiUlC45DxKibWuXcbHATFBo0azWYYefSd1DwNtZgFP+T4i +X9K29CTyDM/qOwWWg+sDNab4jus+mwsD/nccbdKf+jafLU2xl09oPQLGfy01E9Q ZvE7YYP4ZqX9UXt+UmBpaefmgC6GAhIC0ovS9kA6QUs9jSDnJshVWHeMhvmHVF8I OP9lI6gledcN07ps9hm8DoH9ptOdOjfUPEzx723DSVEq2GkYSAO0B4JFeV96lhVy uPsI6mv370vRZbRHQvMVBStt8Sg9FVtKNMA5EIEus3+0yxJjITKPUQ== =AdmV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Robert Hettinga Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 06:07:34 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Fwd: Confiscation is here, Make the most of it. (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain --- begin forwarded text Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 10:06:17 -0800 To: Robert Hettinga From: Subject: Fwd: Confiscation is here, Make the most of it. (fwd) Status: U >Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 07:45:01 -0800 (PST) >From: >Subject: Confiscation is here, Make the most of it. (fwd) >Mime-Version: 1.0 >To: > >Daryl Davis, author of the letter forwarded by Schrader, is the range- >master for the Santa Clara County Corrections Department and > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 09:46:37 -0800 >From: Mike Schrader >To: ca-firearms@lists.best.com >Subject: Confiscation is here, Make the most of it. > >The following text was written to be presented to our (Santa Clara >County's) Republican Central Committee, to wake up the moderates, that bad >laws have unintentended consequences. Feel free to use it to do similar >work. > > Also see the advice at the end, and add my own that now is the time to >turn the heat up on both Lungren the candidate and your local >representatives to the state houses that voting for more bad laws will >never get them reelected. Neither party will be safe from the backlash on >this one. Neither party can distance themselves from those consequences. > >Don't let them. > >Yours, >Mike Schrader > > > > >Confiscation Comes to California >Lungren fulfills Feinstein's fantasy > > >By Daryl N. Davis > > > They said it would never happen. Any suggestion that it would was >derided >as "NRA paranoia." They told us they only wanted "reasonable controls." > > Well, it has happened. Gun confiscation is now the law in California. >Thank you, Dan Lungren! > > In a letter dated November 24, 1997, The Man Who Would Be Governor >declared that SKS rifles with detachable magazines, unless the owners can >prove they acquired the rifles prior to June 1, 1989, are illegal "and must >be relinquished to a local police or sheriff's department." This is a >reversal of the opinion held by Mr. Lungren from the time he took office in >January 1991, and which has been conveyed in numerous training sessions for >peace officers, criminalists and prosecutors during the past four years. > >When the Roberti-Roos Assault Weapons Control Act (AWCA) became law in >January 1989, it included "SKS with detachable magazine." At that time, >there were two distinct models-one with a fixed magazine (Type 56) and one >with a detachable, AK-47 magazine (Type 84). President Bush banned >importation of the Type 84 in 1990. Later that year, aftermarket detachable >magazines (which are not interchangeable with the AK-47 magazine) became >available for SKS rifles originally designed to use only a fixed magazine. > > Until September 1997, Mr. Lungren's position had been that only the >Type >84 was an "assault weapon." He allowed the sale of the aftermarket >detachable magazines and of SKS rifles equipped with them. He also allowed >the sale of the SKS Sporter, basically a Type 84 that, in compliance with >the import restrictions imposed by President Bush, had its bayonet lug >ground off and was fitted to a sporting stock rather than a military stock. > > In September 1996, the Attorney General's office asked the state >Supreme >Court to "on its own motion order review of the Court of Appeals >decision..." in the Dingman case. James Dingman had been convicted of >possession of an unregistered assault weapon (Type 56 with detachable >magazine) and his conviction was upheld by the Court of Appeals for the >Sixth District. Chief Deputy Attorney General (now candidate for Attorney >General) David Stirling wrote: > >"The impact of the court's opinion cannot be over stated because of the >millions of SKS rifles and after-market magazines currently in circulation. >Tens of thousands of California citizens may become criminals simply by >using a perfectly lawful rifle with a lawfully purchased magazine without >adequate notice that such activity brings them within the proscriptions of >the AWCA." > >In October 1996, in response to the "unprecedented" request by the Attorney >General, the Supreme Court granted review of the Dingman case. In February >1997, the Attorney General's office filed an amicus brief with the Supreme >Court in support of Dingman; they asked that the opinion of the Court of >Appeals be "reversed." > > In September 1997, in response to a series of blatantly biased and >aggressively uninformed hit pieces in the Los Angeles Times, Mr. Lungren >reversed himself. He withdrew his amicus brief in the Dingman case, stating >that it "inaccurately reflects the view of the Attorney General." Deputy >Attorney General Paul Bishop, who had worked on the AWCA project since >1989, was transferred. > > Thanks to Mr. Lungren, "tens of thousands of California citizens" must >either surrender their lawfully acquired property without compensation or >become felons. Gun dealers throughout the state face felony prosecution, on >individual counts, for each detachable magazine SKS they sold during the >six years Mr. Lungren assured them it was legal to do so. Furthermore, the >opinion does nothing to clarify what constitutes a "SKS with detachable >magazine." Must the magazine be affixed to the rifle? With the rifle? The >rifle in the owner's gun safe and the magazine buried somewhere in a box of >miscellaneous parts in his/her garage? > > On CBS's "60 Minutes" on February 5, 1995, Senator Dianne Feinstein >declared, "If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United >States for an outright [firearms] ban, picking up every one of them, Mr. >and Mrs. America turn them all in, I would have done it." Thanks to Dan >Lungren, Feinstein's fantasy is well on its way to becoming reality. >Whether Mr. Lungren's fantasy of currying favor with the loony Left at the >Los Angeles Times becomes reality, remains to be seen. > > > > >What Should I Do? > >1. If a law enforcement officer attempts to confiscate your SKS, live to >fight another day. DO NOT RESIST! Do get a receipt, though. > >2. Contact Governor Wilson and firmly but politely express your outrage at >this situation. In addition to infringing the Second Amendment, the AG's >position creates a taking of private property without just compensation >(Fifth Amendment) and an ex post facto application of the Assault Weapons >Control Act (Article I, Section 9, Paragraph 3). >Gov. Pete Wilson >State Capitol >Sacramento, CA 95814 >Phone: 916-445-2864 >FAX: 916-445-4633 > >3. Become active in your local NRA Members Council. You may call the >Silicon Valley Members Council at 408-235-9175, 24 hours a day, for up to >date legislative information or for information on contacting a Members >Council in your area. > --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/ Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 05:27:56 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Swinestein for Senate! Message-ID: <199801210011.BAA16725@basement.replay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain ACRAMENTO, Calif. (AP) - Sen. Dianne Feinstein ruled out a race for the Democratic nomination for governor Tuesday, saying she didn't want to enter "a very debilitating campaign environment." Feinstein's decision came less than two weeks after President Clinton personally urged her to enter the race. That call followed pleas by Democratic members of Congress and the state Legislature to run. "I made the decision definitely last week," she told reporters in a telephone conference. "It was like a huge weight that came off my shoulders." "It's a long story. There probably has been no decision in my life ... that I have put more thought and energy into. There also has been none that has caused me more angst," Feinstein said. "The decision moment came in a way ... in the conversation with the president ... I thought if any call were to push me over the brink, it would be a call from the president of the United States." Feinstein said it was during that conversation that "I realized my ambivalence," she said. Feinstein, who had been weighing a race for the Democratic nomination for months, said she could serve the people of California better in the U.S. Senate. Gov. Pete Wilson, a Republican, can't run again this year because of term limits. The leading Republican candidate is Attorney General Dan Lungren. Other Democrats considering running are Lt. Gov. Gray Davis, businessman Al Checchi and state Senator John Vasconcellos. Feinstein, 64, lost a close race for governor in 1990 to Wilson. She was elected to the remaining two years of Wilson's Senate term in 1992, defeating his appointed successor, and ran again in 1994 to win a full six-year term. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 05:24:36 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: Deriving economic profits from writing FREE software? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801210243.DAA05915@basement.replay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Bill Stewart wrote: > At 10:11 PM 1/16/98 -0600, Igor wrote: > >However, aside from the psychic benefits, I would like to somehow derive > >an economic profit from being a freeware author. So far, I feel that the > >status of the author of a popular package does sound good on a resume, but > >it is as far as I could get. > > > >Does anyone else feel the same way? Has anybody come up with a way to > >cash in on the free programs that he writes? > > There's the standard shareware model - ask for $25. > There's the Cygnus model - charge money for support. > There's the Netscape/McAfee/etc. model - free for personal use, > charge money to companies that use it. > There's the Eudora model - basic version free, bells&whistles extra. > There's the advertising-banner model - the software/service is free, > but usage hits an advertising banner in some way that > filters money back to you. There's the Intel model - give away software to sell new hardware. There's the Linus Torvalds model - people pay you to speak at conferences. There's the w3c model - pay money if you want it now, or wait and get it for free next month. There's the book model - give away the software and sell the documentation. There's the PGP model - give it away until it becomes popular, then sell it. ...and then there's the Microsoft model - give away 'free' software and charge for the OS to run it... From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Anonymous Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 05:58:15 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Two Turntables and a Clipper Chip Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Two turntables and a Clipper chip By Skinny DuBaud January 15, 1998 SAN FRANCISCO--In what certainly was not a hacker's delight, RSA Data Security CEO Jim Bidzos stunned the crowd at his company's annual conference this week as he joined old-school rappers The Sugar Hill Gang for a detourned version of da Gang's classic, "Rapper's Delight." Well aware that he's no Kool Moe Dee, Bidzos hip-hopped his way through the modified lyrics, which contained such sparkling couplets as... "They once proposed a thing called Clipper Now there's something new that ain't much hipper Key recovery won't work, so the experts say But the government wants to push it on us anyway" and "I like hip hip hop I like to online shop I trust RSA To keep the hackers at bay" ...then promised never to pull such a stunt again. The RSA conference audience of crypto-math geeks, cyberlibertarians, and snoop-dogs cheered, of course. They'd throw their hands in the air (and wave them like they just don't care) for a wet sponge if it smelled antiauthoritarian, but many breathed a sigh of relief. Despite the awkward moments, Bidzos, who's made quite a name for himself as a public enemy of the federal government's restrictions on the export of encryption software, looked mahvelous sporting a fresh Van Dyke facial-hair arrangement on his prizefighter's mug. He apparently grew the ensemble to match the Sugar Hill Gang--in appearance at least, if not in dope MC talent. Always the suave host, Jim will be back among his tribe at the end-of-conference gala, for which the company has rented out the California Academy of Sciences in Golden Gate Park. The Skintelligentsia certainly will be there looking out for any representatives of Pretty Good Privacy, the crypto company enmeshed in legal battles with RSA. The PGP-brains don't have a booth at the RSA conference this year, but in celebration of their merger with Network Associates--the newly formed utility software company, that is, not the PR agency--they managed to throw a soiree last night at the Marky-Mark Hopkins Hotel, right across the street from the RSA proceedings at the equally fly Fairmont. Speaking of snubs, crypto rivals VeriSign and GTE, whose booths at the Fairmont were practically alongside one another, have been playing a bit of one-upmanship recently. Certificate authority (CA) VeriSign uses hardware storage from BBN to safeguard software encryption keys at its Silicon Valley offices. The hardware--which looks like small blue boxes about the size of a desktop telephone set--is the crypto equivalent of a strong box, ostensibly impervious to hackers. But BBN was recently bought by GTE, which owns rival CA Cybertrust Solutions, and all of a sudden, VeriSign isn't satisfied with the "performance" of those little blue boxes. The company has started looking elsewhere for its strong-box solutions, according to a Skinside source. How will users of encryption trust the "trusted third parties" if the trusted third parties don't trust each other? Staying in Baghdad by the Bay, the conspiracy birds are clacking their beaks over the latest public transportation developments. S.F.'s Municipal Railway (or "Muni," as the local posse calls it) has just opened an extension from the end of Market Street down to Willie Mays Plaza, now just a gaping pit where the new baseball stadium will spring up by the year 2000. The shorthand for the new rail spur? "MMX," short for Muni Metro Extension. Sure, the project's gone over budget, but I swear it fixed that floating-point problem years ago... Speaking of Big Willie Style, San Fran's mayor Willie Brown--who looks great in a fedora, I must say--may be second only to Bill Gates when it comes to haughty treatment of minions, but do Willie's employees sit on Thai temples and proclaim their divinity? That's apparently what happened to a Microsoft programmer on vacation. According to email making the rounds among MSN and WebTV employees, the young fellow (who didn't answer his Redmond phone when my agents rang him up) overheated his circuits, perched himself atop an ancient Thai temple for 10 hours, and told the authorities he was God. It took scaffolding and a special police neck-hold to bring him down, according to the report. Brutal, Juice, brutal! Whether the item is true or not, it produced some amusing comments as it made its way through the outer provinces of Lawrence Lessig's favorite evil empire. "So, um, how closely are we supposed to try to blend into the Microsoft culture?" mused one WebTV employee as the tidbit made its way around the company. "I'm sure that each of us, at one time or another, has had the experience of waking up in some God-forsaken tropical paradise and feeling that horrible falling sensation that comes from being separated from your desk and workstation," wrote another Webhead. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Alan Olsen Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 06:10:53 +0800 To: Jim Choate Subject: Re: Intel introduces new compression technology for surfers [CNN] In-Reply-To: <199801201459.IAA26531@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980121091153.034e0100@clueserver.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 08:59 AM 1/20/98 -0600, Jim Choate wrote: > >Forwarded message: > >> >> INTEL INTRODUCES TECHNOLOGY TO SURF THE WEB FASTER >> >> January 19, 1998 >> Web posted at: 9:35 p.m. EST (0235 GMT) >> >> HILLSBORO, Oregon (AP) -- The World Wide Wait may be over. >> >> Computer chip giant Intel on Monday announced a way for Internet >> surfers to download images twice as fast over regular phone lines >> without any special equipment or software -- but it will add about >> $5 to monthly access fees. >> >> The technology called Quick Web is installed on the computers called >> servers that Internet services use to store and relay data. The >> combination of Intel hardware and special software compresses all >> the graphic images that are piped through the server, boosting >> access speed. >> >> "The more pictures on the screen, the faster it is," said Dave >> Preston, Internet marketing manager for Intel. This sounds like a real interesting scam. Graphic files on servers are already compressed. Have they found some way to compress already compressed files? And if it does not require special software at the client end, then they must be decompressing it before sending the file. Or maybe they just convert all the images to low quality jpegs. This has "Idea from Marketing" written all over it. --- | "That'll make it hot for them!" - Guy Grand | |"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmermann unites all| Disclaimer: | | mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!" | Ignore the man | |`finger -l alano@teleport.com` for PGP 2.6.2 key | behind the keyboard.| | http://www.ctrl-alt-del.com/~alan/ |alan@ctrl-alt-del.com| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Kent Crispin Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 01:28:52 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com Subject: Re: (eternity) Eternity as a secure filesystem/backup medium In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980117194905.008024e0@pobox1.stanford.edu> Message-ID: <19980121092011.14981@songbird.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Wed, Jan 21, 1998 at 03:04:07AM +0100, Anonymous wrote: > Bill Stewart writes: > > > >Do the math, though, for 128bit. There are traditional analyses > > >which include the amount of silicon on the earth, the number of atoms > > >in the universe, etc. The general consensus is that traditional > > >techniques are not feasible for brute forcing 128bit ciphers before > > >the heat death of the universe. > > > > Hard to say. Assuming that Quantum Cryptography doesn't allow > > finite-sized computers to do large exponentially complex calculations > > in short finite time, you're probably limited by the number of atoms > > in the available supply of planets, and Heisenberg may still get you > > if that's not a low enough limit. Moore's law isn't forever. > > A practical 128-bit key-cracker could be built with about 10000 cubic ^^^^^^^^^ > meters of silicon. (Figure one transistor per cubic micron, 1 ghz > operation, do the math...) The technology to build a computer of that > size is still a few years away, but it is theoretically possible to build ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > a 128-bit key-cracker without using quantum computers or travelling to > other planets. "In theory, theory and practice are the same, but in practice they are different." -- Kent Crispin, PAB Chair "No reason to get excited", kent@songbird.com the thief he kindly spoke... PGP fingerprint: B1 8B 72 ED 55 21 5E 44 61 F4 58 0F 72 10 65 55 http://songbird.com/kent/pgp_key.html From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Adam Shostack Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 05:10:20 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net (Cypherpunks Mailing List) Subject: javasoft password? Message-ID: <199801211442.JAA01798@homeport.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain http://developer.javasoft.com ok, so who set the password for the cypherpunks account here, and why isn't it cypherpunks or writecode? :) Adam -- "It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -Hume From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Bill Stewart Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 16:32:50 +0800 To: Anonymous Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980121102016.008405d0@popd.ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 03:24 PM 1/18/98 -0500, Anonymous wrote: >are there any other cypherpunk lists? With all due respect >this list has a *lot* of noise Perhaps something with- >out the anarchy. I enjoy the wild side of this list but >I would also like something more targeted. cypherpunks-announce@toad.com - announcements only. coderpunks-request@toad.com - code-related issues cryptography-request@c2.net - Perry Metzger's relatively low-noise list FCPUNX - Ray Arachelian's filtered list - about 10% of cypherpunks cypherpunks-lite - Eric Blossom's filtered list - $20/year. cypherpunks-j@htp.org (I think that's where it is.) In Japanese. various topical lists, like remailer-operators and ietf-open-pgp alt.cypherpunks, if it's not moribund yet. sci.crypt - for more technical, usually less political noise sci.crypt.research - low-volume technical Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Declan McCullagh Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 04:47:33 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Student expelled for writing hacking article, from Netly News Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 10:49:17 -0800 (PST) From: Declan McCullagh To: politech@vorlon.mit.edu Subject: Student expelled for writing hacking article, from Netly News The "So You Want To Be A Hacker" article in question: http://cgi.pathfinder.com/netly/editorial/019821.html -Declan ****** http://cgi.pathfinder.com/netly/opinion/0,1042,1699,00.html The Netly News (http://netlynews.com/) January 21, 1998 Hacking 101 by Declan McCullagh (declan@well.com) The end of senior year for most high school students is a time for college decisions, vacation planning and beer-tinged teenage revelry. Not so for Justin Boucher. Today the Milwaukee, Wisconsin-area native will be expelled from Greenfield High School because of an article he wrote entitled "So You Want To Be A Hacker." Published under a pseudonym in an unofficial student newspaper, it described in colorful (and sometimes profane) language how enterprising snoops could break into the high school's computer network. The advice ranged from the glaringly obvious ("Some commonly used passwords at very stupid schools are...") to the Hacker Code of Ethics ("Never harm, alter or damage any computers"). The finer points of hacker morality and teenage toomfoolery, however, were lost on irate school officials, who expelled Boucher for one year. [...] From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Robert Hettinga Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 06:07:28 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Jan. 23 column - Horiuchi Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain --- begin forwarded text Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 23:59:33 -0700 X-Sender: vin@dali.lvrj.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 23:00:37 -0800 To: cathy@engr.colostate.edu From: Vin_Suprynowicz@lvrj.com (Vin Suprynowicz) Subject: Jan. 23 column - Horiuchi Resent-From: vinsends@ezlink.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/424 X-Loop: vinsends@ezlink.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vinsends-request@ezlink.com FROM MOUNTAIN MEDIA FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE DATED JAN. 23, 1998 THE LIBERTARIAN, By Vin Suprynowicz 'Protecting him, by a mock Trial, from Punishment for any Murders ...' What does the Declaration of Independence actually consist of? Sure, from our school days, we may remember that "these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be, Free and Independent States." But that's only the last paragraph. Prior to that, Mr. Jefferson and his co-signers spent 29 paragraphs doing ... what? "Declaring their causes," of course! We did this -- anyone would have the right to do this -- because of a "long train of Abuses and Usurpations," remember? "He has erected a Multitude of new Offices, and sent hither Swarms of Officers to harrass our People, and eat out their Substance." Remember? "He has kept among us, in Times of Peace, Standing Armies, without the consent of our Legislatures. "He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil Power. "He has combined with others to subject us to a Jurisdiction foreign to our Constitution, and unacknowledged by our Laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of Pretended Legislation: "For quartering large Bodies of Armed Troops among us: "For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from Punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States. ..." This is not just schoolboy stuff. A message etched in fire from our patrimony, these words tell us how Americans shall know when they are again justified in declaring themselves free of a parasitical tyrant. Fast forward 216 years, to the late summer of 1992. Part-time gunsmith Randy Weaver had failed to show up for a court date, after being entrapped by ATF agents hoping to turn him into a snitch, to spy on a nearby CHURCH. Federal marshals now trespass on the Weaver family's private Idaho property (the marshals carry no warrant this day and are not there to make an arrest), and open fire when they're spotted by the family dog, killing the dog, and also Weaver's 14-year-old son, Sammy. A federal marshal is also killed, either in self defense or by fratricidal fire. (The federals never release any shell casings or autopsy results for independent review -- but a jury acquits Weaver and family friend Kevin Harris in the death.) The federal government answers by flooding the property with hundreds more trespassers in full combat gear. FBI sniper Lon Horiuchi then shoots at Weaver and Harris as the pair races back to his front door, after paying their respects to young Sammy's body in an outbuilding. One of Horiuchi's shots passes through the window of the kitchen door, shooting away much of the brain of Weaver's wife Vicky, for whom there are no warrants outstanding. At the moment prior to her death (which comes after 30 seconds of blood-curdling screams), Vicki Weaver was holding her baby in her arms in her own kitchen, threatening no one. Unaware they have murdered Vicky Weaver, federal agents continue to shout taunting remarks at her dead body, in the full hearing of her children, for days. The federal government eventually pays Weaver -- acquitted of murder and all other major charges -- and his children $3.1 million in damages for these wrongful actions. After a year-long review, the U.S. Justice Department decides in 1994 not to charge sniper Lon Horiuchi with any crime. Like the Germans at Nuremberg, they declare he was "just following orders." But, just before the five-year statute of limitations is due to toll, in August of 1997, Boundary County (Idaho) Prosecutor Denise Woodbury bravely files a charge of involuntary manslaughter against this armed trooper, who has long been quartered among us as part of the 60,000-strong federal "standing army" of FBI, DEA, ATF and other Einsatzgruppen troopers. Here now is the vital test. Will this "king's officer" be allowed to stand trial on the evidence, before a randomly selected jury of Idahoans, in their own state court? Or will the new king "protect him, by a mock Trial, from Punishment for any Murders which he has committed on the Inhabitants of these States"? Jan. 7, 1998: The Associated Press informs us: "BONNERS FERRY, Idaho (AP) -- A judge today ordered an FBI sharpshooter to stand trial on a state manslaughter charge for the death of white separatist Randy Weaver's wife in the 1992 siege at Ruby Ridge. ... "Magistrate Judge Quentin Harden ... scheduled a Feb. 13 arraignment before state Judge James Michaud." So far so good. But now the inevitable: Jan. 12, 1998: "BOISE, Idaho (AP) -- FBI sharpshooter Lon Horiuchi won his bid today to be tried in federal court on the state charge brought against him in the death of white separatist Randy Weaver's wife in the 1992 siege at Ruby Ridge. ... "Horiuchi, supported by the U.S. Justice Department, petitioned the federal court to take over the case on grounds that the transfer is allowed when federal agents are prosecuted for conduct in their official capacity. "U.S. District Judge Edward Lodge agreed. ... Neither murder nor manslaughter, of course, is a federal crime. State courts have sole jurisdiction to try such cases. Clearly, the federals want jurisdiction here so they can either dismiss the case, or (if a public outcry renders that unwise) so limit the evidence admitted that the question to be decided ends up nothing more than "Was Agent Horiuchi obeying what he believed was a lawful order at the time?" Sort of like letting Martin Borman set the ground rules for the Nuremberg trials. Modern federal judges -- like Judge Smith in the trial of the Waco survivors -- are famous for declaring "The United States government isn't going to be put on trial in my courtroom." As one of my e-mail correspondents puts it: "The test for whether one is living in a police state is that those who are charged with enforcing the law are allowed to break the laws with impunity." This -- along with Janet Reno and her Waco Killers still roaming free, of course -- is the great modern test of whether this Union can long endure. If Lon Horiuchi walks (or even if some untimely "accident" allows him to escape justice) while the surviving VICTIMS of the federal assault at Waco are still serving long prison terms, after being found INNOCENT of all major charges, then what shall we say to the patriot who advises: "If you see a federal agent committing a crime, don't bother turning him in, just shoot him down like a dog. Kill him on the spot, and walk away without giving it a moment's thought." Showing our respect for due process, do we continue to say: "Oh no, that would be wrong. Just turn him in to the proper authorities, and justice will be done"? Do we, really? Vin Suprynowicz is the assistant editorial page editor of the Las Vegas Review-Journal. Readers may contact him via e-mail at vin@lvrj.com. *** Vin Suprynowicz, vin@lvrj.com "If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains set lightly upon you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." -- Samuel Adams --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/ Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 02:01:14 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Is cyberpass.net down? Message-ID: <199801211752.LAA02298@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Hi, Considering the paucity of traffic and the cyberpass.net deferred time-outs I suspect there is a problem over there. Anyone got a clue? Danke. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: John Young Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 01:43:05 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: CP Bust or Buyout? Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980121172436.01503010@pop.pipeline.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Not much from the West Coast since the C2-CP meet on Saturday. Were they all busted, or fragged, or has the underground mole hole at last been taken? What, C2 shanghai-ed them all, with irrefusable bucks galore to securely distribute porn, NDA$ accomplishing what TLAs couldn't. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 05:12:51 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: Gore Commission wants to regulate the Net like broadcast In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I was always of the understanding that the mandate for regulation of radio and television broadcasts had to do centrally with the "allocation of scarce resources." That is, that because there are only a finite number of non-overlapping spectrum slots, some degree of regulation or allocation is justified. (I'm not saying I support this, just that this was the argument for the FCC and related regulatory measures.) The Internet is not constrained by a finite number of slots...capacity can be added arbitrarily (well, at least for as many decades out as we can imagine). And consumers can, and do, pick what they choose to download or connect to. The Internet is about pure speech, about publishing. For the Gore Commission to even _hint_ at regulating it is reprehensible. More comments below. At 1:34 PM -0800 1/20/98, Declan McCullagh wrote: >Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:20:23 -0500 >From: Alan Moseley >To: declan@well.com >Subject: the Gore Commission and digital media > >The Gore Commission -- the group created by Clinton to determine the >future public interest obligations of digital TV broadcasters -- showed >signs last week of broadening its reach to include other digital media >that can deliver broadcast-like audio and video. Just because the Internet can deliver audio and video signals is hardly a matter of "allocating scarce resources." Video rental stores can also deliver video signals, but there is no (well, modulo the "obscenity" laws in various communities) regulation of these sources. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Bill Stewart Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 16:27:09 +0800 To: Steve Schear Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980121141039.00840100@popd.ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >At 8:30 PM -0600 1/18/98, Jim Choate wrote: >>It has been proposed to compress the keys from 100 cypherpunks down >>to a 64 character add in the NYT. Obviously you can't compress the keys themselves, and if you just take a short chunk of each key, you don't have enough entropy to be useful. But you can make a file with all the keys, hash the file, and post the hash and an URL for the file. That lets you use 128 or 160 bits of hash. That's plenty of room, and has full-strength security. If you want to do a 32-character message, it's tighter; using the usual 6-bit characters, 128 bits of hash takes 22 chars, and 160 bits takes 27. If you use the btoa encoding, which puts 4 bytes of binary into 5 bytes of ascii (if the 85 characters it uses can all be printed in the NYT's fonts), that's 20 for 128 or 25 for 160. So you have up to 12 characters left. So how short a URL can you do? With some cooperation from Vince, you can probably do 2 characters - "ai", which should retrieve http://ai/index.html (currently www.ai does.). I don't know if Netscape will let you retrieve this - I tried it, and got the index page for www.ai.com, using the Netscape "try adding .com" hack. (If you use the hack, "a" is shorter, but you'll need to give the IANA a good excuse for using the a.com reserved name. And keys.com is a company in the Florida Keys, but maybe they'd be friendly.) The shortest URL that really looks like an URL is probably www.ai . If the NYT insists on a phone number, that's 10-11 characters, so you'll need a shorter hash :-) Is 64 bits enough? It's long enough that it's hard to brute-force, and you probably don't need to worry about birthday attacks, though it's still uncomfortably short. Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 04:45:15 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: SC rules 1st doesn't cover lies [CNN] Message-ID: <199801212040.OAA03251@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > > SUPREME COURT: GOVERNMENT AGENCIES CAN PUNISH WORKERS WHO LIE > > January 21, 1998 > Web posted at: 2:53 p.m. EST (1953 GMT) > > WASHINGTON (AP) -- Government agencies can punish employees who lie > while being investigated for employment-related misconduct, the > Supreme Court ruled unanimously Wednesday. > > The court overturned rulings in five separate cases that had barred > federal agencies from stiffening the disciplinary action taken > against wayward employees based on false statements they made when > questioned about their misconduct. > > Although the decision dealt with federal employees, its rationale > appeared to affect state and local government employees as well. > Chief Justice William H. Rehnquist wrote for the court that nothing > in the Constitution nor any federal law bars such punishment. > > "A citizen may decline to answer the question, or answer it > honestly, but he cannot with impunity knowingly and willfully answer > with a falsehood," Rehnquist said. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Steve Schear Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 07:50:05 +0800 To: Alan Olsen Subject: Re: Intel introduces new compression technology for surfers [CNN] In-Reply-To: <199801201459.IAA26531@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >At 08:59 AM 1/20/98 -0600, Jim Choate wrote: >> >>Forwarded message: >> >>> >>> INTEL INTRODUCES TECHNOLOGY TO SURF THE WEB FASTER >>> >>> January 19, 1998 >>> Web posted at: 9:35 p.m. EST (0235 GMT) >>> >>> HILLSBORO, Oregon (AP) -- The World Wide Wait may be over. >>> >>> Computer chip giant Intel on Monday announced a way for Internet >>> surfers to download images twice as fast over regular phone lines >>> without any special equipment or software -- but it will add about >>> $5 to monthly access fees. >>> >>> The technology called Quick Web is installed on the computers called >>> servers that Internet services use to store and relay data. The >>> combination of Intel hardware and special software compresses all >>> the graphic images that are piped through the server, boosting >>> access speed. >>> >>> "The more pictures on the screen, the faster it is," said Dave >>> Preston, Internet marketing manager for Intel. > >This sounds like a real interesting scam. Graphic files on servers are >already compressed. Have they found some way to compress already >compressed files? And if it does not require special software at the >client end, then they must be decompressing it before sending the file. > >Or maybe they just convert all the images to low quality jpegs. > >This has "Idea from Marketing" written all over it. Maybe they dynamically turn off the modem compression feature at both ends during an image download. LZW-like compression actually adds overhead to files which are non-text based. --Steve From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Declan McCullagh Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 05:16:56 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Microsoft and DoJ: which one has guns? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain A long-sounded theme at least on cpunks... ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 12:51:19 -0800 (PST) From: Declan McCullagh To: politech@vorlon.mit.edu Subject: FC: More on Don Boudreaux "Calm Down" letter on Microsoft My article on the politics of antitrust: http://cgi.pathfinder.com/netly/opinion/0,1042,1678,00.html -Declan ******** Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 14:35:48 -0500 From: James Love To: declan@well.com Subject: Re: FC: "Calm down!" -- Don Boudreaux letter to NYT on Microsoft Calm down Don Bx, If Microsoft really has great software, it doesn't need to use these heavy handed tactics. jl -- James Love Consumer Project on Technology P.O. Box 19367, Washington, DC 20036 love@cptech.org | http://www.cptech.org 202.387.8030, fax 202.234.5176 ********** Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 15:09:14 -0500 From: Don Bx To: Declan McCullagh Subject: Re: FC: "Calm down!" -- Don Boudreaux letter to NYT on Microsoft (fwd) Sincere thanks to all who wrote in response to my letter to the NY Times. One point: Vigorous competition and clever marketing are NOT anticompetitive. Yes, Microsoft owes much of its success to hard bargaining; yes, Microsoft is a wiz at marketing; and yes, Microsoft's products are not as good (in an engineering or technical sense) as are some products produced by rivals. But antitrust law is meant neither to outlaw hard bargaining and marketing, nor to ensure that only the technologically best products survive on the market. Too many computer experts wrongfully infer from the fact that MS's products aren't the best available to the conclusion that, therefore, MS's success is illegitimate. Such a conclusion would be like saying that General Motors's success is illegitimate in light of the fact that Lexus and Porshe make better automobiles. Bill Gates may be an ass; I don't know and I don't care. I never met the man. But I do know that antitrust law has done great damage to this nation's economy during the past 100+ years. The DOJ has guns; Bill Gates doesn't. When DOJ enters the picture, it literally threatens to shoot consumers and businesses who refuse to do as it says; Bill Gates makes no such threats. For that reason alone I'm all for keeping Bill Gates free of government interference. Don Boudreaux -------------------------------------------------------------------------- POLITECH -- the moderated mailing list of politics and technology To subscribe: send a message to majordomo@vorlon.mit.edu with this text: subscribe politech More information is at http://www.well.com/~declan/politech/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Declan McCullagh Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 08:07:34 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Will bureaucrats turn the Net into TV? Note from FCC Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain A note from an acquaintance formerly at the FCC. --Declan ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Having spedt my years at the FCC doing pre-repeal Fairness Doctrine and Sec. 315 equal time matters, I think [deleted-dm]'s concerns, tho' justified politically [because most adminsitrations will leave no good technology unhobbled] are without substantial legal basis. The hook for the Fairness Doctrine obligation imposed on broadcasters as a corollary to their statutory 'public interest' obligations was as a licensee of scarce broadcast spectrum--a discrete frequency awarded on a putatively compettive basis. Those key elements[scarcity/license/obligation] are--for now--lacking in the on-line environment. And while no doubt this or another Administration, or wiley Congressional staffer could gin up a plausable nexus between the web and interstate commerce, sufficiient to sustain a new public interest obligation, I think we're two or three generations of bandwith scarcity away from that becoming a compelling element of a cyber-resource allocation scheme. Without that overarching allocation-based [license] compulsion (to force even facial compliance with an obligation, so that enforcement would become essential to compliance, thus creating a need for thousands of Web police to review commercial licensees sites and traffic--[what a nightmare] -) -the liklihood of developing a meaningful scheme of public interest obligation would be a an overdebated and overhyped PC exercise, quickly becoming comic--and then dangerous. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Marshall Clow Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 08:58:29 +0800 To: Information Security Subject: Re: Latest smartcard software In-Reply-To: <199801211005.FAA12259@panix2.panix.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain guy wrote: > > From cypherpunks-errors@toad.com Wed Jan 21 03:38:35 1998 > > > > The Independent Smartcard Developer Association, the only non-vendor > > controlled smartcard related industry organization, announces their >latest > > release of SIO/STEST. > > > > SIO/STEST is a developer toolkit that provides drivers for most popular > > smartcard readers as well as card support for a wide range of crypto > > capable smartcards. SIO/STEST provides the tools required by the > > application programmer to integrate smartcards with their application. > > > > As always, your feedback is appreciated. > >Is this for a "cypherpunks" smartcard, or for hacking them? > >Smartcards tend to be transponders, and to want to gobble up >all other cards...bad card, bad card. > [ Excerpt from the Cryptography Manifesto snipped ] > >They'll say hey, you've already surrendered your biometric number >during fingerprinting for driver's licenses. > >It will be too late. > >The high-tech American Leviathan will be in place. > > All the more reason to distribute information on how to read from and write to the cards. -- Marshall Marshall Clow Adobe Systems Warning: Objects in calendar are closer than they appear. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Nobuki Nakatuji" Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 09:31:06 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Ultra computer Message-ID: <19980122011204.22624.qmail@hotmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Ultra computer which NEC had the calculation speed of the world maximum of about 1000 times of the super computer to was decided to be developed. Ultra computer will be completed in 2001. It has the performance that the calculation which takes 10000 years with the personal computer is made of 3, 4 days. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Declan McCullagh Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 06:59:08 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Privacy as Censorship -- Cato Institute policy analysis Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain If you care about electronic privacy, read this new report. It correctly says that many proposals to create new "privacy rights" become censorship by another name. The paper is at: http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-295.html -Declan ******* http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-295es.html PRIVACY AS CENSORSHIP: A Skeptical View of Proposals to Regulate Privacy in the Private Sector by Solveig Singleton (solveig@cato.org), director of information studies at the Cato Institute. Executive Summary Some privacy advocates urge the adoption of a new legal regime for the transfer of information about consumers among private-sector databases. This "mandatory opt-in" regime would require private businesses to ask for a consumer's permission before trading information about that consumer, such as his buying habits or hobbies, to third parties. This would, in effect, create new privacy rights. These new rights would conflict with our tradition of free speech. >From light conversation, to journalism, to consumer credit reporting, we rely on being able to freely communicate details of one another's lives. Proposals to forbid businesses to communicate with one another about real events fly in the face of that tradition. New restrictions on speech about consumers could disproportionately hurt small businesses, new businesses, and nonprofits. Older, larger companies have less need for lists of potential customers, as they have already established a customer base. We have no good reason to create new privacy rights. Most private-sector firms that collect information about consumers do so only in order to sell more merchandise. That hardly constitutes a sinister motive. There is little reason to fear the growth of private-sector databases. What we should fear is the growth of government databases. Governments seek not merely to sell merchandise but to exercise police and defense functions. Because governments claim these unique and dangerous powers, we restrict governments' access to information in order to prevent abuses. Privacy advocates miss the target when they focus on the growth of private-sector databases. To view the entire document: http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-295.html From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Ray Arachelian Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 07:24:02 +0800 To: Alan Olsen Subject: Re: Intel introduces new compression technology for surfers [CNN] In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980121091153.034e0100@clueserver.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Wed, 21 Jan 1998, Alan Olsen wrote: > This sounds like a real interesting scam. Graphic files on servers are > already compressed. Have they found some way to compress already > compressed files? And if it does not require special software at the > client end, then they must be decompressing it before sending the file. > > Or maybe they just convert all the images to low quality jpegs. > > This has "Idea from Marketing" written all over it. >From the sounds of it, it's a glorified caching scheme. =====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos============== .+.^.+.| Ray Arachelian |Prying open my 3rd eye. So good to see |./|\. ..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were |/\|/\ <--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run |\/|\/ ../|\..| "A toast to Odin, |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/. .+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were.... |..... ======================= http://www.sundernet.com ========================== From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "William H. Geiger III" Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 08:40:23 +0800 To: Steve Schear Subject: Re: [Long] How to recover private keys for various Microsoft products In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801220050.TAA25337@users.invweb.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In , on 01/20/98 at 12:43 PM, Steve Schear said: >At 4:29 AM +0000 1/21/98, Peter Gutmann wrote: >> How to recover private keys for Microsoft Internet Explorer, Internet >> Information Server, Outlook Express, and many others >> - or - >> Where do your encryption keys want to go today? >> >> Peter Gutmann, >> >>Summary >>------- >> >>Microsoft uses two different file formats to protect users private keys, the >>original (unnamed) format which was used in older versions of MSIE, IIS, and >>other software and which is still supported for backwards-compatibility reasons >>in newer versions, and the newer PFX/PKCS #12 format. Due to a number of >>design and implementation flaws in Microsofts software, it is possible to break >>the security of both of these formats and recover users private keys, often in >>a matter of seconds. In addition, a major security hole in Microsofts >>CryptoAPI means that many keys can be recovered without even needing to break >>the encryption. These attacks do not rely for their success on the presence of >>weak, US-exportable encryption, they also affect US versions. >> >>As a result of these flaws, no Microsoft internet product is capable of >>protecting a users keys from hostile attack. By combining the attacks >>described below with widely-publicised bugs in MSIE which allow hostile sites >>to read the contents of users hard drives or with an ActiveX control, a victim >>can have their private key sucked off their machine and the encryption which >>"protects" it broken at a remote site without their knowledge. >> >Seems a good way to teach M$ a security lesson is to use Peter's code to >snatch M$' ant significant keys on their corporate servers and publish. >Of course, they're probably too smart to leave important data just lying >around on unsecure '95/NT servers and instead use Linux ;-) More than likely they have them tucked away on one of the AS/400's they are running at Redmond. :) - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- Tag-O-Matic: Dos: Venerable. Windows: Vulnerable. OS/2: Viable. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a-sha1 Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBNMaGDI9Co1n+aLhhAQHicwP+NNIDJcNmdJjW294Pr6BEMvuOHmpcm8yk AijqKWmSerz/D/VDD1zh7FwRNhkMD9qEkEXO4molAIsomo49NgBs8MhEIBSW7FhC yj2lEZ5/xNGy+SVOoEpWywQD+KpU3FZftHIBUcQE0o7Wc+0AnjHfcUUDgjDkumCF 98Qe8bFqQyg= =Z4ph -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Bill Stewart Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 16:22:36 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Candidate Blacknet Customer :-) Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980121183540.00840100@popd.ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain http://www.newsmait.com has a section called the "Newspaper Intelligence Page", which has anonymized comments from newspaper reporters about what their (current or former) newspaper working environments are like. Aside from the usual issues that any site for griping about work offers, this site provides a lot of insight into the media business - how much freedom do writers have, what kinds of topics get squashed, what the biases of the editors and management are like. The folks who run the site have some obvious concerns about lawsuits. Looks like a good candidate for a Blacknet-style web site... Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 10:51:32 +0800 To: Declan McCullagh Subject: Re: Will bureaucrats turn the Net into TV? Note from FCC In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801220247.SAA12030@netcom12.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain does anyone else smell a bureacrat writing that article? >Without that overarching allocation-based [license] compulsion (to force >even facial compliance with an obligation, so that enforcement would >become essential to compliance, thus creating a need for thousands of Web >police to review commercial licensees sites and traffic--[what a >nightmare] -) -the liklihood of developing a meaningful scheme of public >interest obligation would be a an overdebated and overhyped PC exercise, >quickly becoming comic--and then dangerous. whoa, someone claiming that the government won't do something because it would lead to a horrible increase in the number of bureacrats or federal police? hmmmmmmmm, somehow I don't feel so reassured. here is another reason the net won't be regulated: because it is like society's nervous system, and freedom of expression and speech has finally found a tangible outlet and form after centuries of attempts. "freedom of press" only applies to those who have a press, yet freedom of web sites belongs to anyone who can scrounge up $5/mo. (I promise you I am now paying that amount for a site). moreover, the net has become a powerful economic force. there are tens of thousands of people now making their living directly or indirectly off the net. any attempt to change its chemistry will involve a backlash from some of the most intelligent and motivated people on the planet. people don't care too much about american politics, but any attempt to mess with the internet will be slapped hard by the population, which is finally getting a clue about what the words "participatory democracy" mean. it would be political suicide. this is not to say that some idiot politicians will continue to experiment. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Attila T. Hun" Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 05:46:32 +0800 To: rantproc Subject: Revenge on the Nerds -Maureen on a rampage Message-ID: <19980121.080832.attila@hun.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- and everyone thought I have been blowing smoke over the few years over the need to dismember Micro$haft. More aye-sayers than naysayers have joined the fray, some even eloquently. even the opinion polls are against BadBillyG: bubba is more trusted! as is the government... Mickey$lop no longer generates terror in the hearts of everyone --just the OEMs who can not afford to even testify for fear of retaliation --and it is a real fear. keep your fire extinguisher handy. Maureen is really smoking! January 21, 1998 NYTimes OpEd Columnist LIBERTIES / By MAUREEN DOWD Revenge on the Nerds WASHINGTON -- I figured things were way out of perspective in the Other Washington when I heard that Bill Gates had put an inscription from "The Great Gatsby" around the domed ceiling of the library in his new $100 million pad: "He had come a long way to this blue lawn and his dream must have seemed so close that he could hardly fail to grasp it." Bill Gates was obviously unaware of the magnitude of the truth that he had unwittingly admitted. When he read about the blue lawn, he must have imagined computers with glowing blue screens stretching to infinity. And he must certainly have liked the proximity of the words "dream" and "grasp." With a judge who is likely soon to hold Microsoft in contempt for petulantly defying an order designed to give its rivals any chance, Mr. Gates's dream may at last have exceeded his grasp. The Justice Department never came down on Gatsby. This Washington has disabused that Washington of its arrogant presumption that what's good for Microsoft is good for America. This Washington has stripped that Washington of its image as warm, tender, flannel-and-soyburger pioneers of the new economy, and properly pegged Microsoft as an egomaniacal, dangerous giant that has cut off the air supply of competitors in a bid to control cyberspace. "The only thing the robber barons did that Bill Gates hasn't done is use dynamite against their competitors," Gary Reback, a Silicon Valley antitrust lawyer, told John Heilemann of The New Yorker. The disheveled college dropout who used to get adoring headlines like "A Regular Guy Who's a Legend: Bill Gates Puts a New Face on the American Dream" now looks like a spoiled rich brat. When they treated the Justice Department and the judge with the same contempt with which they treat competitors, the masters of the virtual universe got hit with a grim truth: People hate Microsoft even more than they hate the Government. Mr. Gates has gone from Horatio Alger similes to virus similes. Frederick Warren-Boulton, another antitrust expert, told The New Yorker: "Gates is like smallpox. You have to go in there and you have to nail it. If you leave it lying around, it will just come back." When asked who they thought had done more good for the future of America, Bill Gates or Bill Clinton, more Americans chose Mr. Clinton. (Even though portfolio-obsessed Americans would still rather have their children grow up to be more like Mr. Gates than Mr. Clinton, by 47 to 24 percent.) As Jacob Weisberg plaintively wrote in Slate, Microsoft's on-line magazine: "A few months ago, everyone I met seemed to think that working for Microsoft was a pretty cool thing to do. Now, strangers treat us like we work for Philip Morris." The Times's Timothy Egan explored the angst that has gripped the Redmond campus since Microsoft lost its sheen. Some fret that the fate of the entire Pacific Northwest is at stake. All the instant millionaires in thermal shirts, droopy drawers and sandals with wool socks are suddenly Wondering If It's All Worth It. They have staggered out of the Seattle fog long enough to listen to their inner browsers. This has been a rude shock to them because they honestly believed that our Washington was full of anti-business, careerist bureaucrats, and their Washington was full of imaginative idealists and entrepreneurs who buy and sell to the beat of a different drum. They didn't reckon smokestack laws could apply to high technology. As Mr. Gates's lawyer, William Neukom, told Steve Lohr of The Times, "We sincerely believe that we are a force for good in the economy." Actually, Microsoft has been a force for greed in the economy, more brilliant at marketing and purloining and crushing than it has been at innovating. The company saw the fight with the Justice Department as a defense of its way of life. And that way was hardball on software; anything it decided was a core threat to Microsoft was sucked into the operating system. These are Darwinian nerds. Besides, Microsoft couldn't even save the universe in "Independence Day." It took an Apple to do that. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: latin1 Comment: No safety this side of the grave. Never was; never will be iQBVAwUBNMZSQ7R8UA6T6u61AQH2fgH+OQT3p1cE1lRxSzMvhyt9AvvH2N3jFUmO UZzpqRbrn9pB1VPxZLKG2lgBwOW4hPIlpFRWg8Fp+Uu6KoL6kKObuw== =n+/c -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: David Miller Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 09:28:49 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: ITAR is back! Message-ID: <34C69FE3.4B0159A7@avana.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Those of you who thought that ITAR was dead had better check this out -- http://www.itar-tass.com/ Aparently, ITAR has found a new home... :-) Note that they are running Sun / Elvis+. --David Miller middle rival devil rim lad From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 09:57:37 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: Revenge on the Nerds -Maureen on a rampage In-Reply-To: <19980121.080832.attila@hun.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain "Attila T. Hun" writes: > and everyone thought I have been blowing smoke over the > few years over the need to dismember Micro$haft. More > aye-sayers than naysayers have joined the fray, some even > eloquently. even the opinion polls are against BadBillyG: > bubba is more trusted! as is the government... I don't know why there's somuch mickeysoft-related traffic all of a sudden, but here are a couple of rants: Jack Aaron's, the commodities division of Goldman Sachs, controls inter alia like 99% of US coffee supply. if you try to circumvent their monopoly, by trying to import a material amount of coffee, whether it's the cheap shit for proles or the high-end caffeine fix from Kenya, you and your suppliers just might find yourself in a lot more trouble that the computer manusfacturers who were reluctant to put the free mickeysoft browser on their dekstop. Why doesn't DOJ come down on Goldman Sachs? Does it have anything to do with the fact that a Goldman Sachs partner is in Clinton's cabinet? Speaking of browsers: I'd rather *pay* for a browser that has such an obvious feature as a list of URL regexps that you don't want to browse. Neither IE nor Netscape has it. I don't know about Lynx. I'm now using junkbuster from www.junkbuster.com (highly recommended) to filter out ads and banners and cookies. I generally think WWW sucks; but if I use it, I want to be able to tell the browser that if the page tried to load an image from a URL that looks like valueclick.com bannermall.com adforce.*.com/ bannerweb.com eads.com/ /*/sponsors/*.gif *banner*.gif /image/ads/ etc etc, I want the browse to ignore this request. Clearly Microsoft and Netscape both don't give a damn about the desires of their NON-PAYING users and would rather bend over for the advertisers. Wow, two rants for the price of one. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Bill Frantz Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 12:41:49 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: Gore Commission wants to regulate the Net like broadcast In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 12:30 PM -0800 1/21/98, Tim May wrote: >At 1:34 PM -0800 1/20/98, Declan McCullagh wrote: >>Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:20:23 -0500 >>From: Alan Moseley >>To: declan@well.com >>Subject: the Gore Commission and digital media >> >>The Gore Commission -- the group created by Clinton to determine the >>future public interest obligations of digital TV broadcasters -- showed >>signs last week of broadening its reach to include other digital media >>that can deliver broadcast-like audio and video. >>... >> The recent experience of the Communications Decency Act >>demonstrates the government's willingness to control digital speech. The //eagerness >>digital convergence argument could be a new rationale for further such >>interventions, Maines warned. > >Just because the Internet can deliver audio and video signals is hardly a >matter of "allocating scarce resources." Video rental stores can also >deliver video signals, but there is no (well, modulo the "obscenity" laws >in various communities) regulation of these sources. Presumably they intend to also regulate live theater. It can also deliver audio and video. FUBAR. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Frantz | | Periwinkle -- Consulting (408)356-8506 | All politicians should ski.| 16345 Englewood Ave. frantz@netcom.com | | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 13:27:07 +0800 To: Declan McCullagh Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 4:02 PM -0800 1/21/98, Declan McCullagh wrote: >A note from an acquaintance formerly at the FCC. --Declan > > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- > >Having spedt my years at the FCC doing pre-repeal Fairness Doctrine and >Sec. 315 equal time matters, I think [deleted-dm]'s concerns, tho' >justified politically [because most adminsitrations will leave no good >technology unhobbled] are without substantial legal basis. > >The hook for the Fairness Doctrine obligation imposed on broadcasters as a >corollary to their statutory 'public interest' obligations was as a >licensee of scarce broadcast spectrum--a discrete frequency awarded on a >putatively compettive basis. Hey, this is what _I_ said. >Those key elements[scarcity/license/obligation] are--for now--lacking in >the on-line environment. And while no doubt this or another Yep, this was what I was saying. >Administration, or wiley Congressional staffer could gin up a plausable >nexus between the web and interstate commerce, sufficiient to sustain a >new public interest obligation, I think we're two or three generations of >bandwith scarcity away from that becoming a compelling element of a >cyber-resource allocation scheme. "Regulation of commerce" (which was, let us not forget, *interstate* commerce, despite the recent extension into defining cloning as commerce, growing peanuts as commerce, and painting pictures as commerce, etc.) is a fundamentally different issue than allocation of scarce bandwidth. Though Declan's source may be right that the burrowcrats will try to find a reason to stick their fingers into the Net to regulate it (meaning, rent-seeking), it won't be via the FCC. That will not fly. I doubt that even President Gore will have the time this coming summer to push for such foolish legislation. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Alan Olsen Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 14:18:44 +0800 To: Steve Schear Subject: Re: Intel introduces new compression technology for surfers [CNN] In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980121091153.034e0100@clueserver.org> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980121220518.03c31580@clueserver.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 03:46 PM 1/21/98 -0800, Steve Schear wrote: >Maybe they dynamically turn off the modem compression feature at both ends during an image download. LZW-like compression actually adds overhead to files which are non-text based. How do they do that from the server side? --- | "That'll make it hot for them!" - Guy Grand | |"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmermann unites all| Disclaimer: | | mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!" | Ignore the man | |`finger -l alano@teleport.com` for PGP 2.6.2 key | behind the keyboard.| | http://www.ctrl-alt-del.com/~alan/ |alan@ctrl-alt-del.com| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Steve Schear Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 15:04:28 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: Gore Commission wants to regulate the Net like broadcast In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 12:30 PM -0800 1/21/98, Tim May wrote: >I was always of the understanding that the mandate for regulation of radio >and television broadcasts had to do centrally with the "allocation of >scarce resources." That is, that because there are only a finite number of >non-overlapping spectrum slots, some degree of regulation or allocation is >justified. > That was the government's justification. > >The Internet is not constrained by a finite number of slots...capacity can >be added arbitrarily (well, at least for as many decades out as we can >imagine). And consumers can, and do, pick what they choose to download or >connect to. > >The Internet is about pure speech, about publishing. For the Gore >Commission to even _hint_ at regulating it is reprehensible. The measures being discussed at are clearly not in the interests of the public but of the continued maintenance of the state's priviledged position to influence or limit speech, information flow and public opinion. The Feds cannot easily control millions of citizens directly and therefore need to create a franchise, like broadcast, whose licensees will bend to retain their priviledges. This paradigm is the same as for crypto. Since their goal is to limit access to crypto (which is most likely to find widespread acceptance only after seemless integration with common products ) and the Feds find it more difficult to control individual (e.g., cypherpunk) efforts, EAR enforcement is geared to corporations and congressional debate is steered to jobs, corporate profits and competitiveness. To the extent that civil liberties issues are raised the national security trump card is played. These attempts at regulation show just how terrified they are of true free speech and every man a publisher. --Steve From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 15:03:59 +0800 To: "William H. Geiger III" Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 9:08 PM -0800 1/21/98, William H. Geiger III wrote: >Well on another mailing list I have been chastised for calling Misty >"snake-oil". > >Has anyone actually examined this algorithm? Seems there is an IETF Draft >on it (draft-ohta-misty1desc-00.txt). > >Any opinions on it?? My only exposure has be through the pidgon-english >posts of Nobuki Nakatuji (if it looks like a duck, it smells like a duck, >it quacks like a duck ....). I wouldn't call Misty "snake oil." But it's also been thoroughly taken apart and shown to be weak. Importantly, it was submitted by Mitsubishi for peer review. "Snake oil" is a name I reserve for, well, snake oil. Some of the recent nonsense we've seen is more snake oilish than Misty was. Of course, there should be no real interest in Misty anymore, except as an example to study, so anyone trying to promote it might be accused of peddling snake oil. As for Nobuki-san's consistently strange posts, I'm now persuaded he may be a troller. Or just not very bright. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 15:45:57 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: Gore Commission wants to regulate the Net like broadcast In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 10:35 PM -0800 1/21/98, Steve Schear wrote: >The measures being discussed at are clearly not in the interests of the >public but of the continued maintenance of the state's priviledged >position to influence or limit speech, information flow and public >opinion. The Feds cannot easily control millions of citizens directly and >therefore need to create a franchise, like broadcast, whose licensees will >bend to retain their priviledges. > >This paradigm is the same as for crypto. Since their goal is to limit >access to crypto (which is most likely to find widespread acceptance only >after seemless integration with common products ) and the Feds find it >more difficult to control individual (e.g., cypherpunk) efforts, EAR >enforcement is geared to corporations and congressional debate is steered >to jobs, corporate profits and competitiveness. To the extent that civil >liberties issues are raised the national security trump card is played. > >These attempts at regulation show just how terrified they are of true free >speech and every man a publisher. Yes, they need "choke points" to control the anarchy. As with the British plan to license a series of "certificate authorities," or U.S. plans/wishes to do the same thing, this effectively forces all citizen-units to sign up with one of the authorized certificate issuers. (This is why certificate-based systems are so heinous.) We're seeing the pieces being put together in various ways. The new Copyright law, which felonizes even minor infringements, is one piece. The laws making it illegal to disparage food products is another. The proposed "no anonymous speech" notions are another. As with prison "trustees," or as with the forced deputizing of corporations as soldiers in the War on Drugs, we are seeing "overlords" or "sheriffs" being appointed/annointed to control their unruly underlings. Which leaves unruly Cypherpunks still running free. (Which is why I would look for signs that Congress will seek to make ISPs responsible for political speech, a la the Chinese actions. Not this year, not next, but someday. Except it won't be explicitly a law about political speech, it'll be something about dangerous information, safety of the children, etc.) --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "William H. Geiger III" Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 13:39:34 +0800 To: Declan McCullagh Subject: Re: SC rules 1st doesn't cover lies [CNN] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801220551.AAA28381@users.invweb.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In , on 01/21/98 at 11:47 PM, Declan McCullagh said: >[1] Unless it's a copyrighted work; if it is, you'll go to federal prison >and be fined a quarter-mil. Thanks, Bill Gates and the Software >Publishers Association. Perhaps we could convince Sun to press for *criminal* charges against Bill Gates as part of thier current battle over Java. I think it would only be fitting to set the tables turned against these SOB's. - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- Tag-O-Matic: Dos: Venerable. Windows: Vulnerable. OS/2: Viable. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a-sha1 Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBNMbMgo9Co1n+aLhhAQHbQAQAuhbHqJhZSAUucxdwnKHu4s312Vd5+H0r p4rsCn36HoWdqaPReGsjcZUV7Y5VTKCLjBV2vkfAmkT40cZwgwhoAXwusVLjWIB5 b0xZYFndb0+CqasFCtZ/UqZiW6CkfwZpZAD3yox0qC6S2nLSCmwgopgojTS5F6is GXlMiVNy/14= =xzJJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 13:39:48 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: SC rules 1st doesn't cover lies [CNN] (fwd) Message-ID: <199801220536.XAA06214@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 23:47:05 -0500 > From: Declan McCullagh > Subject: Re: SC rules 1st doesn't cover lies [CNN] > Reply-To: austin-cpunks@ssz.com > > Clarification on the Subject: line -- the court's ruling, at least as > described below, applies only to government employees. It is the > state-as-employer, not the state-as-sovereign, role the court is discussing. > > In other words, we're still free to lie, cheat, and steal[1]. > >> "A citizen may decline to answer the question, or answer it > >> honestly, but he cannot with impunity knowingly and willfully answer > >> with a falsehood," Rehnquist said. So you have to be an employee of the government to be a citizen? ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "William H. Geiger III" Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 13:51:28 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: Latest smartcard software In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801220604.BAA28541@users.invweb.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In , on 01/22/98 at 03:53 AM, Secret Squirrel said: >>They'll say hey, you've already surrendered your biometric number >>during fingerprinting for driver's licenses. >> >>It will be too late. >> >>The high-tech American Leviathan will be in place. >Sounds like Microsoft. No, really. I'm dead serious. >Like it or not, people have to use Mickeysoft crap sooner or later. Want >to read that document? Read that email? Run that program? Purchase things >(software which runs)? It's garbage. I know it's garbage. Many of us here > know it's garbage. But we have to use it anyway. Compare this to the >smartcard as proposed like this: >I know it's garbage. Many of us here know it's garbage. But we have to >use it anyway. Want to read that document? Read that email? Access that >computer system? Drive your car? Get in your house? Get through a toll >booth? Enter or leave the country? Better make sure your papers are in >order. >The high-tech American Leviathan is already in place. The problem is that >it'll just get worse because the sheeple are, by definition, naked, >stupid, and blind. This is, well what can I say but, BULL. This is the typical line one gets from the sheeple, "I don't like MS but I am *forced* to use it", or "I don't like Credit Cards but I can't live without them". Life sucks deal with it. You have two choices: either use it or don't but quit your whining. I will not use a dumbcard today, tomorrow, or ever (I have never owned a CC). The herd will always be the herd but if you follow along are you really any different? - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- Tag-O-Matic: When DOS grows up it wants to be OS/2! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a-sha1 Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBNMbPfI9Co1n+aLhhAQGoOwP+PbgtKvM52fHDUUIhFlHm89s801Pcpo9d gihoEKJKPqDfhllsJunIMUXT92S+bYSBrRDQpbnPHtbiuBW/XMIBEKtIbWpO77ya TnZIvATMpTZwUIIMBAQOCpRUgsVdPGMJf36Jwq6Pf2ItfBsCeja8QHixxJebz+Bf cVYddd0jhuw= =XC2k -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 13:51:20 +0800 To: devnull@www.video-collage.com Subject: Re: Revenge on the Nerds -Maureen on a rampage In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801220537.XAA00871@manifold.algebra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote: > Speaking of browsers: I'd rather *pay* for a browser that has such an obvious > feature as a list of URL regexps that you don't want to browse. Neither IE > nor Netscape has it. I don't know about Lynx. I'm now using junkbuster > from www.junkbuster.com (highly recommended) to filter out ads and banners > and cookies. I generally think WWW sucks; but if I use it, I want to be able > to tell the browser that if the page tried to load an image from a URL > that looks like > > valueclick.com > bannermall.com > adforce.*.com/ > bannerweb.com > eads.com/ > /*/sponsors/*.gif > *banner*.gif > /image/ads/ > > etc etc, I want the browse to ignore this request. Clearly Microsoft and > Netscape both don't give a damn about the desires of their NON-PAYING users > and would rather bend over for the advertisers. I suggest writing a proxy server that does such filtering, running it on the local machine, and using it as proxy server from your netscape browser. There is a proxy server in form of a 20 line perl script, you can take it and modify it. - Igor. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Declan McCullagh Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 13:25:35 +0800 To: Jim Choate Subject: Re: SC rules 1st doesn't cover lies [CNN] In-Reply-To: <199801212040.OAA03251@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Clarification on the Subject: line -- the court's ruling, at least as described below, applies only to government employees. It is the state-as-employer, not the state-as-sovereign, role the court is discussing. In other words, we're still free to lie, cheat, and steal[1]. -Declan [1] Unless it's a copyrighted work; if it is, you'll go to federal prison and be fined a quarter-mil. Thanks, Bill Gates and the Software Publishers Association. At 14:40 -0600 1/21/98, Jim Choate wrote: >Forwarded message: > >> >> SUPREME COURT: GOVERNMENT AGENCIES CAN PUNISH WORKERS WHO LIE >> >> January 21, 1998 >> Web posted at: 2:53 p.m. EST (1953 GMT) >> >> WASHINGTON (AP) -- Government agencies can punish employees who lie >> while being investigated for employment-related misconduct, the >> Supreme Court ruled unanimously Wednesday. >> >> The court overturned rulings in five separate cases that had barred >> federal agencies from stiffening the disciplinary action taken >> against wayward employees based on false statements they made when >> questioned about their misconduct. >> >> Although the decision dealt with federal employees, its rationale >> appeared to affect state and local government employees as well. >> Chief Justice William H. Rehnquist wrote for the court that nothing >> in the Constitution nor any federal law bars such punishment. >> >> "A citizen may decline to answer the question, or answer it >> honestly, but he cannot with impunity knowingly and willfully answer >> with a falsehood," Rehnquist said. > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > | | > | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | > | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | > | | > | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | > | | > | _____ The Armadillo Group | > | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | > | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | > | .', |||| `/( e\ | > | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | > | ravage@ssz.com | > | 512-451-7087 | > |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "William H. Geiger III" Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 14:05:12 +0800 To: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home) Subject: Re: Revenge on the Nerds -Maureen on a rampage In-Reply-To: <199801220537.XAA00871@manifold.algebra.com> Message-ID: <199801220610.BAA28611@users.invweb.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In <199801220537.XAA00871@manifold.algebra.com>, on 01/21/98 at 11:37 PM, ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home) said: >Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote: >> Speaking of browsers: I'd rather *pay* for a browser that has such an obvious >> feature as a list of URL regexps that you don't want to browse. Neither IE >> nor Netscape has it. I don't know about Lynx. I'm now using junkbuster >> from www.junkbuster.com (highly recommended) to filter out ads and banners >> and cookies. I generally think WWW sucks; but if I use it, I want to be able >> to tell the browser that if the page tried to load an image from a URL >> that looks like >> >> valueclick.com >> bannermall.com >> adforce.*.com/ >> bannerweb.com >> eads.com/ >> /*/sponsors/*.gif >> *banner*.gif >> /image/ads/ >> >> etc etc, I want the browse to ignore this request. Clearly Microsoft and >> Netscape both don't give a damn about the desires of their NON-PAYING users >> and would rather bend over for the advertisers. >I suggest writing a proxy server that does such filtering, running it on >the local machine, and using it as proxy server from your netscape >browser. >There is a proxy server in form of a 20 line perl script, you can take it >and modify it. I *highly* recomed taking a look at: http://www.anybrowser.org/campaign/ If I can't view a website using Lynx 99.9% of the time it's not worth the effort of the DL. - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- Tag-O-Matic: What I like about MS is its loyalty to customers! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a-sha1 Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBNMbQ249Co1n+aLhhAQG4cgQAo3bldsA3mgaQucL7qh06bkdHfbszEhix PJzuYpRwMyfwpaW51PHGB6dBbhtUnaenifQUtv9lCqxcXibArXprIaT1ZKAHxG32 dxcUvzx7gIdbgQ67e3xyaTfxALdVqD+MCd5+aoBebiPM8aA38Y6SJctdGOJJOkW5 VgjfceZDnzI= =Rpgw -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Anonymous Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 13:15:57 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: tell me what you think of this RC2 C++ source code Message-ID: <7f7f70c39f30fd17d32c41b5bddb97b3@anon.efga.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain tell me what you think of this RC2 C++ source code #include #include void RC2Keyschedule::schedule( unsigned short K[64], const unsigned char L[128], unsigned T8, unsigned TM ) { unsigned char x; unsigned i; static const unsigned char PITABLE[256] = { 217,120,249,196, 25,221,181,237, 40,233,253,121, 74,160,216,157, 198,126, 55,131, 43,118, 83,142, 98, 76,100,136, 68,139,251,162, 23,154, 89,245,135,179, 79, 19, 97, 69,109,141, 9,129,125, 50, 189,143, 64,235,134,183,123, 11,240,149, 33, 34, 92,107, 78,130, 84,214,101,147,206, 96,178, 28,115, 86,192, 20,167,140,241,220, 18,117,202, 31, 59,190,228,209, 66, 61,212, 48,163, 60,182, 38, 111,191, 14,218, 70,105, 7, 87, 39,242, 29,155,188,148, 67, 3, 248, 17,199,246,144,239, 62,231, 6,195,213, 47,200,102, 30,215, 8,232,234,222,128, 82,238,247,132,170,114,172, 53, 77,106, 42, 150, 26,210,113, 90, 21, 73,116, 75,159,208, 94, 4, 24,164,236, 194,224, 65,110, 15, 81,203,204, 36,145,175, 80,161,244,112, 57, 153,124, 58,133, 35,184,180,122,252, 2, 54, 91, 37, 85,151, 49, 45, 93,250,152,227,138,146,174, 5,223, 41, 16,103,108,186,201, 211, 0,230,207,225,158,168, 44, 99, 22, 1, 63, 88,226,137,169, 13, 56, 52, 27,171, 51,255,176,187, 72, 12, 95,185,177,205, 46, 197,243,219, 71,229,165,156,119, 10,166, 32,104,254,127,193,173 }; assert(len > 0 && len <= 128); assert(bits <= 1024); if (!bits) bits = 1024; memcpy(xkey, key, len); for (i = 0; i < 128; i++) { L[i] = PITABLE[L[i-1] + L[i-T]]; } T8 = (T1+7) >> 3; TM = 255 MOD 2^(8 + T1 - 8*T8); L[128-T8] = PITABLE[L[128-T8] & TM]; for (i = 0; i < 127-T8; i++) { L[i] = PITABLE[L[i+1] XOR L[i+T8]]; }; i = 63; K[i] = L[2*i] + 256*L[2*i+1]; }; void RC2Encryption::ProcessBlock( const unsigned short K[64], ) { unsigned R3, R2, R1, R0, i; for (i = 0; i < 16; i++) { R0 += (R1 & ~R3) + (R2 & R3) + K[4*i+0]; R0 = R0 << 1; R1 += (R2 & ~R0) + (R3 & R0) + K[4*i+1]; R1 = R1 << 2; R2 += (R3 & ~R1) + (R0 & R1) + K[4*i+2]; R2 = R2 << 3; R3 += (R0 & ~R2) + (R1 & R2) + K[4*i+3]; R3 = R3 << 5; if (i == 4 || i == 10) { R0 += K[R3 & 63]; R1 += K[R0 & 63]; R2 += K[R1 & 63]; R3 += K[R2 & 63]; } } void RC2Decryption::ProcessBlock( const unsigned short K[64], ) { unsigned R3, R2, R1, R0, i; for (i = 0; i < 16; i++) { R3 = R3 << 5; R3 += (R0 & ~R2) + (R1 & R2) + K[4*i-3]; R2 = R2 << 3; R2 += (R3 & ~R1) + (R0 & R1) + K[4*i-2]; R1 = R1 << 2; R1 += (R2 & ~R0) + (R3 & R0) + K[4*i-1]; R0 = R0 << 1; R0 += (R1 & ~R3) + (R2 & R3) + K[4*i-0]; if (i == 4 || i == 10) { R3 -= K[R2 & 63]; R2 -= KR1 & 63]; R1 -= K[R0 & 63]; R0 -= K[R3 & 63]; } } From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "William H. Geiger III" Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 14:20:11 +0800 To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com Subject: Misty??? Message-ID: <199801220634.BAA28888@users.invweb.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Well on another mailing list I have been chastised for calling Misty "snake-oil". Has anyone actually examined this algorithm? Seems there is an IETF Draft on it (draft-ohta-misty1desc-00.txt). Any opinions on it?? My only exposure has be through the pidgon-english posts of Nobuki Nakatuji (if it looks like a duck, it smells like a duck, it quacks like a duck ....). - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- Tag-O-Matic: I use OS/2 2.0 and I don't care who knows! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a-sha1 Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBNMbWgY9Co1n+aLhhAQFjoQQAgRac4gm3MM1mbZUfb0jH21b7gQt1IRYR wWFilIA2am/6x+bmF3RKG64A9/iwp00rD45g2yybw91Gg3/87nEMjPBpo+DCchtb psYRKyDOTxOAr7GljOa2k4HJAfNDqjxQ56sI/4whk2PEADnpHilzln98tEJobZA7 oxZw9FeGlig= =M0fT -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "William H. Geiger III" Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 14:33:46 +0800 To: Alan Olsen Subject: Re: Intel introduces new compression technology for surfers [CNN] In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980121220518.03c31580@clueserver.org> Message-ID: <199801220647.BAA29020@users.invweb.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In <3.0.5.32.19980121220518.03c31580@clueserver.org>, on 01/21/98 at 10:05 PM, Alan Olsen said: >>Maybe they dynamically turn off the modem compression feature at both ends >during an image download. LZW-like compression actually adds overhead to >files which are non-text based. >How do they do that from the server side? If someone can fuck with my modem settings over the "net" I will be placing a call to Boeing (formaly USR) first thing to see what they are going to do to fix it. - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- Tag-O-Matic: This marks Logical End-Of-Message. Physical EOM follows -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a-sha1 Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBNMbZnY9Co1n+aLhhAQH7EQP/c1j6peXFu2Tf2Dk7gkA3NUtS7dkXMgAL ddUQ9OIp1t3vfuo1ywaX/cB7IuIc8HaJU1FbKCHMLtJaM5e5me/wNuAtD7cIJm9Y umsMEwhRnbcAH0TUZFJMJwEmbDk2QArrdMK1e4gXc82+XCQA96nNwYhXvg/4N9NA wtL7+DqwyU8= =5c26 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Rishab Aiyer Ghosh Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 04:24:38 +0800 To: "'cypherpunks@cyberpass.net> Subject: security and hidden networks (was On the LAM--Local Area Mixes) Message-ID: <01BD26CD.34C94A00@d439.pppdel.vsnl.net.in> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain summary this post suggests that technically, routing through a sub-network does not necessarily increase complexity or hinder traffic analysis, as it can be treated as a virtual node. given that, LAM-type networks may not provide much protection in a politically unkind environment. i also suggest a way of rating (or classifying) secure networks based on how well they hide suspect data and routes in other traffic. as this in response to tim may's LAM post, i'll respond quoting that. Tim May writes: >A message would enter the physical site, bounce around to N machines, and >exit, perhaps going to other machines and sites, and back again, etc. (The >image was of perhaps 20 or 30 cheap PCs linked with Ethernet in a set of >apartments in Berkeley--obtaining search warrants or court orders to allow >monitoring of all 20 or 30 machines, scattered across several physical >addresses, would be "problematic.") i won't repeat my objections to a reliance on "problematic" court orders, which i've made in another post. let us simply assume, for example, that i am the NSA, and i don't need court orders, but i'm a sneaky sort so i don't want to go in with guns blazing just yet. Alice has a network, alice.net, 10.1.1.0. she has many machines on this network, some hers, some belonging to Bob. when Alice and Bob plan stink-bomb attacks on the IRS (sorry, when they, or Li-Xia and Bu-pang, write articles on human rights violations in xinjiang) to Carol and David, outside their network, they first bounce their packets around their 30 machines. i sniff all packets going into and out of the network 10.1.1.0, from the upstream provider (Alice has her whole building in a faraday cage, which is ok because she never tries to use her mobile phone indoors). so. does it matter in the least, to me, whether alice wrote her last rant from kitchen.alice.net (10.1.1.1) or garage.alice.net (10.1.1.2) or whether it was actually Bob - Bob Inc, to be safe - from 10.1.1.33? it could matter politically/legally (if i wanted to prosecute) or technically (if i want to trace traffic down, to, from or through alice's net). technically first: it doesn't really matter. i treat alice's net as a hermetically sealed virtual "node"... >-- the routing topology of the site may be an interesting area to look at. >Ideally, a "Linda"-like broadcast topology (all machines see all packets, >like messages in a bottle thrown into the "sea") could have certain ... which is all the more correct topologically if broadcast addresses (10.1.1.255) are used. so i treat alice's net as a single node, and monitor traffic as it enters and leaves that "node". just as i would monitor traffic entering and leaving a single machine, without caring much which disk drive or memory bank it passed through. with a single physical entry and exit point to the network it can be treated exactly as if it were a single node for the purposes of any traffic analysis (security/traceability). multiple physical connections might complicate it slightly, but if i'm sniffing them all, and they connect to the same set of machines (i.e. the same network), not much (if it's IP the address spaces may differ but that's a minor matter). depending on what remailer math tells us - and we really do need remailer math, as tim pointed out! - bouncing traffic around sub-nets may have little impact on security. it could remain the same; i don't see how it could become much better; it could plausibly get worse, if multiple nodes in a single subnet can eat into your random route hops resulting in concentration of traffic through fewer virtual "nodes". the only situation in which this isn't true is if the source and destination of traffic are both within the sealed network - presumably what would happen most of the time with tim's suggestion of voice/high-bandwidth stuff. now for the political/legal bit. given that i'd like to see cypherpunk technology as daring enough to be of use outside western democracies, let's look at a slightly challenging situation. you're a bunch of people, each with your own firm for added safety, in this building. now i'm not a decent american cop, worried about court orders etc. ok, i don't exactly want to shoot all of you at once. but if i am satisfied (which i could be, using technical methods) that lots of "suspicious" stuff is coming from your network, then i'll certainly come in and reeducate you all on your "errors and distortions." (sorry, just finished a week of watching andrzej wajda films at a retrospective.) oho. it's a BIG building. and i don't really suspect all of you. ok, i go have a chat with the network admin - Alice - and hold her responsible. she has great respect for the government and police and would never write such a nasty thing as "the state tortures political prisoners?" uh oh. so i tell her that for the good of the country she must let someone listen in at her machine ("you didn't keep logs? ah, that was a mistake, no?") - i'm now inside, and the sealed network shrinks. of course if i'm impatient and don't believe her innocent approach, i just use the rubber hose. the same goes for multiple physical links into the same network. can _technology_ - rather than relying on law-abiding cops, and rights-abiding laws - provide a solution? the key is the BIG building. the more non-suspicious routes there are - i.e. a route through normal, unsuspected people, typically but not necessarily outside the physically well-protected area - the harder to usefully treat a network as a virtual node. looking at 10.1.1.0 as a node may help, just 256 people there; but 10.1.0.0 is a bit big to make a coherent "node" so although a LAM may be a great way to _test_ new tech and protocols out, i'd think it a big mistake to actually deploy it, as it were, on a large scale. it wouldn't help at all in the tough spots, and it would only serve to make the easier spots tougher, strengthening the immune system of would-be tyrannical states (i.e. the nicer western democracies). in general "WAMs" would be much more helpful and secure. the other thing that helps is of course the degree of non-suspicious traffic on suspected routes. putting them together, i think you can get some measure of the utility of a protocol and topology. the ideal would a) make it technically impossible to trace the route of suspicious traffic; and b) make it politically/legally difficult to prosecute originators/destinations of suspicious traffic. it would do this by a) blurring the distinction between suspicious and "regular" routes; and b) make it difficult to distinguish suspicious from harmless traffic on those routes; c) make it difficult or impossible to block suspicious routes or intercept/monitor suspicious traffic without causing unacceptable deterioration of service for "ordinary" traffic. two ratios seem useful to me as a way of organising cryptoanarchic network protocols. suspicious routes/ordinary routes; suspicious/ordinary traffic on any route. an ideal universal DC-Net with padding to keep constant throughput would have both ratios tending towards 1 - there is only one route - broadcast - for everyone; and traffic is constant so the degree of really suspicious stuff is unknown. pure Blacknet-type systems tend towards [1,0] - there is only one route, assuming everyone uses it. but without padding, you could suspect all traffic. Pipenet tends towards [0,1] - there are many routes, and they're all pretty suspicious as it's possible for the monitor to discriminate among them. but traffic is constant, so you don't know when to suspect. regards, rishab First Monday - The Peer-Reviewed Journal on the Internet http://www.firstmonday.dk/ Munksgaard International Publishers, Copenhagen Intl & Managing Editor - Rishab Aiyer Ghosh (ghosh@firstmonday.dk) Mobile +91 98110 14574; Fax +91 11 2209608; Tel +91 11 2454717 A4/204 Ekta Apts., 9 Indraprastha Extn, New Delhi 110092 INDIA From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Rishab Aiyer Ghosh Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 05:45:08 +0800 To: "'cypherpunks@cyberpass.net> Subject: politics of topology (was On the LAM--Local Area Mixes) Message-ID: <01BD26CD.3CF0B100@d439.pppdel.vsnl.net.in> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain m k gandhi used to say that it was good india was colonised by the _british_ - the poor fools were vulnerable to non-violent rational argument and (relatively) concerned about such oddities as human rights. one problem with tim may's idea for local area mixes is just that: relying on US stickliness on wimpy rules for search/interception is all very well, but wouldn't fly in china. i won't get into the argument over how awful the US state is here, but if all cypherpunk technology can fight is the "tyrannical" democracies of the west, it's not much good, IMNSHO. besides, if such technology becomes widespread in, say, the US, then it's inevitable that the authorities will tend towards more _real_ tyrannical behaviour, diluting search/seizure protections and taking you closer to china. a weak vaccine _strengthens_ the microbe it is supposed to kill. today your tech may let you plan stink-bomb attacks on the IRS in peace; tomorrow it may not be sufficient to let you publish articles critical of the goverment. i always thought the cypherpunk idea ("write code" etc) was to develop tech that is _independent_ of political protections. technology will not undermine the power of governments, if it is based on (incorrect) assumptions that governments will continue to restrain themselves (e.g. search & seizure) when faced by increasing use of such tech. i should think that LAMs would be excellent test-beds for larger-scale systems, but it is larger-scale systems, where you don't assume the government's _not_ snooping because it's squeamish, that matter more. best, -rishab First Monday - The Peer-Reviewed Journal on the Internet http://www.firstmonday.dk/ Munksgaard International Publishers, Copenhagen Intl & Managing Editor - Rishab Aiyer Ghosh (ghosh@firstmonday.dk) Mobile +91 98110 14574; Fax +91 11 2209608; Tel +91 11 2454717 A4/204 Ekta Apts., 9 Indraprastha Extn, New Delhi 110092 INDIA From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Bill Stewart Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 17:13:56 +0800 To: Jim Choate Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980122005300.0083b300@popd.ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 09:26 AM 1/20/98 -0600, Jim Choate wrote: >> From: Bill Stewart >> 1) Storage of information - Storage currently costs < $1/MB for raw disk, >> and getting cheaper by the minute, > >Assuming your 5 year plan, a 1G drive costs $100 or less. That's roughly >$20/G-yr. >> The costs of the equipment for permanent storage are probably about >> 10-50% more than the costs for storing for 5 years; >A Cyrix P200 runs about $600 for a working box (I bought one just a few >weeks ago). So that gives us about $120/cpu-year. You missed my point - the cost of a CPU-year and GB-year drop rapidly every year; the costs of storage plus associated CPU for 100 years of storage are probably just a bit higher than for 5 years. >> but sysadmins, lawyers, etc. >> cost money and they're not getting cheaper as fast. >Granted, but except for the sys-admin you don't need them often. In all the >years I have been in business I've needed a lawyer only a couple of times. >Say $1k/lawyer-year. For normal businesses, that's true, but eternity servers, if they can be physically located, probably will require a bit more lawyery. >> the costs of administration (assuming inflation is limited to >> some small number) can be covered by an annuity. > >For reliable system administartion you're looking at 5 people (3 8-hr. >shifts plus weekend coverage of 2 12 hour shifts). A sys admin with the >skills and maturity to work in this environment is going to run you in >the neighborhood of $40-60k/yr. So this means we're looking at, on the >outside, $300k/sysadmin-yr. This is the real cost of doing business You're probably right, though you may not need 7x24 sysadmins, and they can share their time maintaining quite a lot of servers if they're all cookie-cutter. >Not shure what the normal ratio for online versus offline storage actualy >is currently, say 10:1. Somewhere between 10:1 and 100:1; the cost of sysadmins making tapes may be higher than the media itself :-) >> 2) Transmission of information - Roughly proportional to MB/time - >This seems overly simplistic to me. The actual cost of the bandwidth is >reasonably fixed for a given site. The price of pipes is very roughly proportional to their size. The size of the pipes you need are roughly proportional to how much data gets transmitted during your busy hour. This gets cheaper every year as well, but nowhere near as fast, and the volume depends on how interesting the data is to potential readers as well as on how big it is. > Remember, under the Eternity model >we don't know *which* server is being hit for the request. There are different models for how to run an Eternity server, but any server will need bandwidth based on how much is getting retrieved. In any case, the machine transmitting data knows which request it's responding to, even if it doesn't really know who the requester or the author are, so it's not unreasonable to charge a retrieval fee or stick on an advertising banner. >> unlike storage, this one's not predictable, unless the provider and >> author agree in advance (e.g. N free accesses per year, per password.) >> So the provider could charge the reader for access, > >I fail to see the profit in giving away plans for man portable nukes or to >turn commen cooking yeast into a THC producing horde when the various >groups around the world would pay so many millions (or would that be >billions) for some to get it and some to keep others from getting it. The >potential for a access auction hasn't been explored as far as I am aware. You might want to give away that THC recipe for free just to end the drug war, or to make supplies cheap and plentiful, or because it's a bogus recipe using your own special brand of yeast. It's the principle of the thing :-) On the other hand, if the provider of the service deliberately doesn't know what the documents on the system are, to him it's just shipping bits, and content is Somebody Else's Problem. >> or use advertising >> banners to fund retrieval costs (if that remains a valid model >> for financing the web over the next N years, especially if the >> readers retrieve data through anonymizers.) > >I believe advertising would be a necessity. The question is how. Would the >payoff for doing a print ad in a magazine be worth it? Should it only >be advertised on the net? I'm not talking about how to get users - I'm talking about those annoying banners from Doubleclick and LinkExchange that fund many of the interesting services on the net because advertisers think it's worth their money to buy impressions. >> If they want their names known, they can include them in the contents >> of the data that readers retrieve, independent of what the server does. >Then there is no reason to use an anonymous network, simply put the data on >their own webpage and sell it direct, cut out the middle-man a tried and >true business tactic. >> and accumulate reputation capital under those nyms. >One of the assumptions is that the source, individual server, and sink >are all anonymous to each other as well as Mallet. Now we're changing the >rules of the game in the middle of the game. Apples and oranges. The assumption is that True Names and physical locations are probably anonymous. Doesn't mean that a reader is going to retrieve documents of unknown content by unknown authors - you may very well know that Zed WareMeister has the best deal on slightly-used Microsoft Products and can be found on alt.eternity.warez, and his reputation capital accumulates under the pseudonym rather than his True Name. But there will also be authors whose names are well-known but whose locations aren't - Salmon Rushdie may be selling digitally signed copies of his latest book online, but he still doesn't want to be easy to find. Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "William H. Geiger III" Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 15:56:27 +0800 To: Tim May Subject: Re: Gore Commission wants to regulate the Net like broadcast In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801220801.DAA29674@users.invweb.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In , on 01/21/98 at 11:26 PM, Tim May said: >(Which is why I would look for signs that Congress will seek to make ISPs >responsible for political speech, a la the Chinese actions. Not this >year, not next, but someday. Except it won't be explicitly a law about >political speech, it'll be something about dangerous information, safety >of the children, etc.) I wouldn't be suprised if you start seeing ISP's closely monitoring the activity of it's users RSN. I would imagine all it will take is the SPA or COS bringing a few ISP up on criminal charges under the new Copyright laws as accesories (or co-conspiritors). A couple of "show trials" and the rest will toe the mark. - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- Tag-O-Matic: He who laughs last uses OS/2. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a-sha1 Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBNMbq3Y9Co1n+aLhhAQGeEgP+MbSqYmneWWv+zyCjb9ySfVv3ee9QCarb sMJqPvuEm1KhYvDuYdtkgJtb3S/224ihhY+GnHw1JFxRyk9nUvOftcPa/NwxxCe5 YXECnaPdxNVa/Nm8GnNinuE31AOTs1YY9B9BLIYIaTMtjTpjgju5Ob5UpZ47Jo7E UxFBc1K1Su8= =+gm0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "William H. Geiger III" Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 16:14:08 +0800 To: Tim May Subject: Re: Misty??? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801220815.DAA29824@users.invweb.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In , on 01/22/98 at 02:00 AM, Tim May said: >At 9:08 PM -0800 1/21/98, William H. Geiger III wrote: >>Well on another mailing list I have been chastised for calling Misty >>"snake-oil". >> >>Has anyone actually examined this algorithm? Seems there is an IETF Draft >>on it (draft-ohta-misty1desc-00.txt). >> >>Any opinions on it?? My only exposure has be through the pidgon-english >>posts of Nobuki Nakatuji (if it looks like a duck, it smells like a duck, >>it quacks like a duck ....). >I wouldn't call Misty "snake oil." But it's also been thoroughly taken >apart and shown to be weak. Importantly, it was submitted by Mitsubishi >for peer review. >"Snake oil" is a name I reserve for, well, snake oil. Some of the recent >nonsense we've seen is more snake oilish than Misty was. >Of course, there should be no real interest in Misty anymore, except as >an example to study, so anyone trying to promote it might be accused of >peddling snake oil. Someone on the OpenPGP list was asking for an asignment for an algorithm id in the OpenPGP RFC for Misty1 (from Japan whoda thought ). I made my post about snake-oil and got chastised by hal@pgp.com as he seems to think it's a respectable algorithm: >>Misty is described in the proceedings of the most recent annual >>conference on fast encryption algorithms. It is designed to be provably >>resistant to linear and differential cryptanalysis. As a new set of >>algorithms (a few variants exist under the "Misty" label), it is one of >>many where a "wait and see" attitude is appropriate to see how it holds >>up. As a patented algorithm, it may have trouble competing with >>alternatives that are free of restrictions. >> >>However your charge that it is "snake-oil" seems unfounded. It appears >>to be a respectable academic development effort, within the mainstream >>of cryptographic research, and has some reasonable-looking theory behind >>it. As far as I know there has been no cryptanalysis or technical >>commentary of any sort regarding Misty on the cypherpunks mailing list. >As for Nobuki-san's consistently strange posts, I'm now persuaded he may >be a troller. Or just not very bright. I wonder if something isn't getting lost in the translation. He most definatly has not mastered the English language. I remember when I first was learning Hebrew and the number of faux pas I made. :) - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- Tag-O-Matic: Bugs come in through open Windows. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a-sha1 Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBNMbuII9Co1n+aLhhAQFskQP+KVSJgUQMi+3Q9vSovZRL3BLnUD08K/Vw pyilVZQUmdwW7lIlKTepFREFr1uthvRbupJp3uHyABnLICgYreuD+KrlJv4OxXy+ DFOkM7DhAiWH8KSFpGdYub9N0ClIKXsxQfWtPS6/5rl5xuHKs8/e1uH0Lfp0o9BP Plnq3Ze9XG4= =8yKO -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Secret Squirrel Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 13:16:30 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: Latest smartcard software Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >They'll say hey, you've already surrendered your biometric number >during fingerprinting for driver's licenses. > >It will be too late. > >The high-tech American Leviathan will be in place. Sounds like Microsoft. No, really. I'm dead serious. Like it or not, people have to use Mickeysoft crap sooner or later. Want to read that document? Read that email? Run that program? Purchase things (software which runs)? It's garbage. I know it's garbage. Many of us here know it's garbage. But we have to use it anyway. Compare this to the smartcard as proposed like this: I know it's garbage. Many of us here know it's garbage. But we have to use it anyway. Want to read that document? Read that email? Access that computer system? Drive your car? Get in your house? Get through a toll booth? Enter or leave the country? Better make sure your papers are in order. The high-tech American Leviathan is already in place. The problem is that it'll just get worse because the sheeple are, by definition, naked, stupid, and blind. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Anonymous Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 11:31:50 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Re: RC1 and RC3 ?? Message-ID: <199801220315.EAA18030@basement.replay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >At 09:28 PM 1/19/98 PST, Nobuki Nakatuji wrote: >> >>Why doesn't it have RC1 and RC3 though there are RC2, >>RC4 and RC5 of RSADSI RC series ? > >If we told you we would have to kill you. Cool! Let's tell him, then, so we won't have to listen to him anymore! :) From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: bill.stewart@pobox.com Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 03:56:56 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Re: Revenge on the Nerds -Maureen on a rampage In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980122082106.00797db0@popd.ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain For now, most of those services all live on machines dedicated to the banner service, rather than on the same machine as the server. Making machines vanish is easy - put them in your hosts file as aliases to 127.0.0.2, and if you're behind a proxy server, put them on your "no proxy" list. Of course, if everybody starts doing this, then more systems will start using ad servers that have names in their own domain, but it works for now on most of the major servers. I've found that killing doubleclick.net and linkexchange.com gets rid of most of the banners. What I'd really like to see in a browser is an option to turn off animated GIFs (other than by killing all images.) >>> Speaking of browsers: I'd rather *pay* for a browser that has such an obvious >>> feature as a list of URL regexps that you don't want to browse. Neither IE >>> nor Netscape has it. I don't know about Lynx. I'm now using junkbuster >>> from www.junkbuster.com (highly recommended) to filter out ads and banners >>> and cookies. I generally think WWW sucks; but if I use it, I want to be able >>> to tell the browser that if the page tried to load an image from a URL >>> that looks like >>> >>> valueclick.com >>> bannermall.com ... >>I suggest writing a proxy server that does such filtering, running it on >>the local machine, and using it as proxy server from your netscape browser. >> >>There is a proxy server in form of a 20 line perl script, you >>can take it and modify it. > >If you have a unix box, try using the roxen web/proxy server. It has a >regexp module that does exactly this. http://www.roxen.com Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 01:09:47 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: Revenge on the Nerds -Maureen on a rampage In-Reply-To: <34c704c2.971366@128.2.84.191> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain phelix@vallnet.com writes: > On 22 Jan 1998 02:22:29 -0600, ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home) > wrote: > > > > >Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote: > >> Speaking of browsers: I'd rather *pay* for a browser that has such an obvi > >> feature as a list of URL regexps that you don't want to browse. Neither IE > >> nor Netscape has it. I don't know about Lynx. I'm now using junkbuster > >> from www.junkbuster.com (highly recommended) to filter out ads and banners > >> and cookies. I generally think WWW sucks; but if I use it, I want to be ab > >> to tell the browser that if the page tried to load an image from a URL > >> that looks like > >> > >> valueclick.com > >> bannermall.com > >> adforce.*.com/ > >> bannerweb.com > >> eads.com/ > >> /*/sponsors/*.gif > >> *banner*.gif > >> /image/ads/ > >> > >> etc etc, I want the browse to ignore this request. Clearly Microsoft and > >> Netscape both don't give a damn about the desires of their NON-PAYING user > >> and would rather bend over for the advertisers. > > > >I suggest writing a proxy server that does such filtering, running it on > >the local machine, and using it as proxy server from your netscape browser. > > > >There is a proxy server in form of a 20 line perl script, you > >can take it and modify it. > > > > - Igor. > > If you have a unix box, try using the roxen web/proxy server. It has a > regexp module that does exactly this. http://www.roxen.com Thanks guys!! I'm now using the junkbusters proxy servers for this very purpose. It works fine. I just think that this should be a function of any decent browser, without requiring the extra overhead of a proxy server. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: phelix@vallnet.com Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 17:07:06 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Re: Revenge on the Nerds -Maureen on a rampage In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <34c704c2.971366@128.2.84.191> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On 22 Jan 1998 02:22:29 -0600, ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home) wrote: > >Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote: >> Speaking of browsers: I'd rather *pay* for a browser that has such an obvious >> feature as a list of URL regexps that you don't want to browse. Neither IE >> nor Netscape has it. I don't know about Lynx. I'm now using junkbuster >> from www.junkbuster.com (highly recommended) to filter out ads and banners >> and cookies. I generally think WWW sucks; but if I use it, I want to be able >> to tell the browser that if the page tried to load an image from a URL >> that looks like >> >> valueclick.com >> bannermall.com >> adforce.*.com/ >> bannerweb.com >> eads.com/ >> /*/sponsors/*.gif >> *banner*.gif >> /image/ads/ >> >> etc etc, I want the browse to ignore this request. Clearly Microsoft and >> Netscape both don't give a damn about the desires of their NON-PAYING users >> and would rather bend over for the advertisers. > >I suggest writing a proxy server that does such filtering, running it on >the local machine, and using it as proxy server from your netscape browser. > >There is a proxy server in form of a 20 line perl script, you >can take it and modify it. > > - Igor. If you have a unix box, try using the roxen web/proxy server. It has a regexp module that does exactly this. http://www.roxen.com -- Phelix From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Eric Murray Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 01:06:11 +0800 To: ichudov@Algebra.COM Subject: Re: Revenge on the Nerds -Maureen on a rampage In-Reply-To: <199801220537.XAA00871@manifold.algebra.com> Message-ID: <199801221652.IAA05481@slack.lne.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Igor Chudov @ home writes: > > > to tell the browser that if the page tried to load an image from a URL > > that looks like > > > > valueclick.com > > bannermall.com > > adforce.*.com/ > > bannerweb.com > > eads.com/ > > /*/sponsors/*.gif > > *banner*.gif > > /image/ads/ > > > > etc etc, I want the browse to ignore this request. Clearly Microsoft and > > Netscape both don't give a damn about the desires of their NON-PAYING users > > and would rather bend over for the advertisers. > > I suggest writing a proxy server that does such filtering, running it on > the local machine, and using it as proxy server from your netscape browser. > > There is a proxy server in form of a 20 line perl script, you > can take it and modify it. > I've already done the work: http://www.lne.com/ericm/cookie_jar/ It'll block cookies, accepting them from a specific list of sites. It blocks the outgoing requests for ads, on a (regex-controlled) host or URL basis. So you don't bother to download ads, saving you from seeing them and wasting the bandwidth downloading them. As an example, my .cookiejarrc file currently holds: denyhost *.doubleclick.net advertising.quote.com commonwealth.riddler.com denyhost *.linkexchange.com *.pagecount.com images.yahoo.com www.missingkids.org denyhost ads.*.com ad.*.com adforce.imgis.com www.bannerswap.com denyhost *.flycast.com/ songline.com:1971/ denyurl /ads/* /ads/images/* *sponsors/redirect/* */bin/statthru* */AdID=* denyurl /adv/* /sponsors2/* */ad-bin/ad* /advertising/* */livetopics_anim.gif* denyurl /Banners/* /shared/images/ad/* /sponsors3/* /adverts/* /free/FarSight/* denyurl /ad/ /*ad*.focalink.com/ It'll let you selectively block sending the User-agent line in the HTTP request, and will let you randomly select from a list of User-agents that you supply if you want to mess up site's data collection schemes. And you can choose to block sending anything but the Accept and Pragma lines in the HTTP request for more privacy. -- Eric Murray Chief Security Scientist N*Able Technologies www.nabletech.com (email: ericm at lne.com or nabletech.com) PGP keyid:E03F65E5 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 01:12:43 +0800 To: Adam Shostack Subject: Re: Misty??? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 7:54 AM -0800 1/22/98, Adam Shostack wrote: >Tim May wrote: >| At 9:08 PM -0800 1/21/98, William H. Geiger III wrote: > >| >Any opinions on it?? My only exposure has be through the pidgon-english >| >posts of Nobuki Nakatuji (if it looks like a duck, it smells like a duck, >| >it quacks like a duck ....). >| >| I wouldn't call Misty "snake oil." But it's also been thoroughly taken >| apart and shown to be weak. Importantly, it was submitted by Mitsubishi for >| peer review. > >Could you provide a pointer to the analysis paper? > No, as I was thinking of FEAL when I wrote about MISTY. Sorry for any confusion. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Michael Stutz Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 22:30:06 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: Deriving economic profits from writing FREE software? In-Reply-To: <199801210243.DAA05915@basement.replay.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Wed, 21 Jan 1998, Anonymous wrote: > Bill Stewart wrote: > > > At 10:11 PM 1/16/98 -0600, Igor wrote: > > >However, aside from the psychic benefits, I would like to somehow derive > > >an economic profit from being a freeware author. So far, I feel that the > > >status of the author of a popular package does sound good on a resume, but > > >it is as far as I could get. > > > > > >Does anyone else feel the same way? Has anybody come up with a way to > > >cash in on the free programs that he writes? > > > > There's the standard shareware model - ask for $25. > > There's the Cygnus model - charge money for support. > > There's the Netscape/McAfee/etc. model - free for personal use, > > charge money to companies that use it. > > There's the Eudora model - basic version free, bells&whistles extra. > > There's the advertising-banner model - the software/service is free, > > but usage hits an advertising banner in some way that > > filters money back to you. > > There's the Intel model - give away software to sell new hardware. > There's the Linus Torvalds model - people pay you to speak at conferences. > There's the w3c model - pay money if you want it now, or wait and get it for > free next month. > There's the book model - give away the software and sell the documentation. > There's the PGP model - give it away until it becomes popular, then sell it. There's the FSF model - give it away and ask for donations, but offer expensive "bundles" that are bought by enlightened companies and/or enlightened Dilberts at un-enlightened companies. There's the Red Hat model - give it away on an ftp site but charge for a nice package with manual and support. There's the Aladdin model - give away old versions but the latest is non-free. There's the GNU ADA model - form a corporation to develop free software, and sell support contracts. If you are interested in hack value and benefits to humanity, you are probably best off avoiding the proprietary and shareware software models (the two which will generally get you the most money, incidentally). But this does not mean that you cannot write commercial software that is free; see . It is worth noting that freeware does not necessarily have to be free of charge; the important thing is that it be _freed_ software, or "libre" software -- as opposed to "gratis" software. > ...and then there's the Microsoft model - give away 'free' software and > charge for the OS to run it... From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: David Honig Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 01:34:12 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Cybersitter censors code Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980122092119.007e9310@206.40.207.40> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >--------------- Forwarded Message -------------- >From: rpj@ise.canberra.edu.au (Ross Johnson) > >Well, I just spent several hours tracking something down that I think >is SO braindead that it must be called evil. I hope this will save >someone else some hassle. > >There's an NT box on my desk that someone else uses every now and then. >This machine is otherwise used as my programming box and backup server. > >All of a sudden, my programming files were being corrupted in odd >places. I thought "hmm, my copy must be corrupt". So I refreshed the >files. No change. "hmm, the code depot copy must be corrupt".. Checked >from other machines. No problem there. Viewed the file from a web based >change browser in Internet Explorer. Same corruption in the file. >Telnet'd to the server machine and just cat'd the file to the terminal. >Same problem. > >What's going on? > >The lines that were corrupted were of the form >#define one 1 /* foo menu */ >#define two 2 /* bar baz */ > >What I always saw ON THIS MACHINE ONLY was: >#define one 1 /* foo */ ># fine two 2 /* bar baz */ > >Can you guess what was happening? > >Turns out, someone had inadvertly installed this piece of garbage >called CyberSitter, which purports to protect you from nasty internet >content. Turns out that it does this by patching the TCP drivers and >watching the data flow over EVERY TCP STREAM. Can you spot the offense >word in my example? It's "NUDE". Seems that cybersitter doesn't care if >there are other characters in between. So it blanks out "nu */ #de" >without blanking out the punctuation and line breaks. Very strange and >stupid. > >It also didn't like the method name "RefreshItems" in another file, >since there is obviously a swear word embedded in there. Sheesh. > >It's so bad it's almost funny. Hope this brightens your day as much as >it brighted mine :-). ------------------------------------------------------------ David Honig Orbit Technology honig@otc.net Intaanetto Jigyoubu ""The tragedy of Galois is that he could have contributed so much more to mathematics if he'd only spent more time on his marksmanship." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "John Kelsey" Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 23:36:48 +0800 To: "cypherpunks" Subject: Re: (eternity) Eternity as a secure filesystem/backup medium Message-ID: <199801221532.JAA28790@email.plnet.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- [ To: cypherpunks ## Date: 01/21/98 ## Subject: Re: (eternity) Eternity as a secure filesystem/backup medium ] >Subject: Re: (eternity) Eternity as a secure filesystem/backup medium >From: Adam Back >Date: 1998/01/18 >1. communications crypto used by the author in submitting > the document is broken This is only a threat if the authorities have a good idea who submitted the data, and want to prove it. Otherwise, you end up with billions of encrypted documents, each encrypted with a moderately weak cipher. (Even assuming that the cipher turns out to have only 40 bits of strength, this is too expensive to do for more than a handful of documents.) >2. the eternity architecture contains encrypted documents to > frustrate attempts to locate documents, and to hide the > contents of documents from individual servers Again, this won't be too economical unless the eternity service is rarely used. >3. communications crypto used to request and deliver > documents is broken thus revealing the readers identity >So it is useful to design upgrade paths for ciphers into the >protocols where possible. Definitely--this is always a good idea, right? >Other approaches we could take are to use very conservative >cipher key sizes and protocols combining multiple ciphers in >ways which gives us the security of the best of the ciphers. >For example: > R = random, C = 5DES( R ) || blowfish-484( M xor R ) >Where 5DES is say E-D-E-D-E with 5 independent DES keys. >Constructs to combine in strong ways hash functions, macs, >symmetric and asymmetric ciphers would be useful. Is there >much research in this area? Yes. Massey and Maurer did a Journal of Cryptography paper titled ``The Importance of Being First,'' which says that in any chain of encryptions with different ciphers and independent keys, such as E_1(E_2(E_3(data))), the whole thing is provably as strong as the first cipher used on the data (E_3, in my example above). This is really obvious, when you reflect that an attacker can always try to break data encrypted with E_3 by superencrypting it with E_1 and E_2, and then mounting his attack on E_1(E_2(E_3(data))). Of course, if keys aren't independent among the three ciphers, then you don't get any guarantee of this kind. The other thing to note is that if you're just generating keystream sequences, as you would with RC4 or SEAL, then all ciphers are ``first.'' Rivest and Sherman also did some work on randomized encryption, of the kind you discuss, in the Crypto '82 proceedings. Your construction is very similar to one of theirs. Let M = message and R = a message-sized random number, then in E_1(R), E_2(R XOR M) both E_1 and E_2 must be broken to learn M. (Imagine this isn't the case, then either E_1 or E_2 wasn't broken. If you didn't break E_2 but broke E_1, then you only learn R, which is useless to you--it's random and uncorrelated with M. If you broke E_2 but not E_1, you would have a message encrypted with a one-time pad.) This generalizes nicely to E_1(R1), E_2(R2), ..., E_N(RN), E_{N+1}(R1 XOR R2 XOR ... XOR M). If those random numbers are really random, then if any one of those ciphers resists your attacks, the message can't be recovered. Now, you can also do this with things that approximate random functions, which they also discuss. Thus, you might use: f_1(),f_2(), ..., f_n() are N independently-keyed different cryptographic functions that approximate random functions. The funny thing is, if you instantiate this intelligently, you get a message encrypted by N different stream ciphers, perhaps with a random parameter per message thrown in during keying of those ciphers. Thus, suppose s_1(K1) = RC4(K1) s_2(K2) = 3DES-OFB(K2) s_3(K3) = SHA1-Counter-Mode(K3) s_4(K4) = Blowfish-OFB(K4) s_5(K5) = SAFER-SK128(K5). and that these keys are different per message and are all independent. Then, you get the result that M XOR s_1(K1) XOR S_2(k2) XOR ... XOR s_5(k5). leaves no way to recover M unless all five s_i() can be guessed. Note that, in practice, this isn't likely to be useful unless you've done the same kind of thing for symmetric key distribution, random number generation, etc. Otherwise, your attacker in 2050 will bypass the symmetric encryption entirely and factor your RSA modulus, or guess all the entropy sources used for your PRNG, or whatever else you can think of. The good news, though, is that active attacks (like chosen input attacks) and many side-channel attacks (e.g., timing attacks) turn out not to be possible if you are trying to mount them after the encryption has been carried out. >Adam - --John Kelsey, kelsey@counterpane.com / kelsey@plnet.net NEW PGP print = 5D91 6F57 2646 83F9 6D7F 9C87 886D 88AF -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBNMeCqSZv+/Ry/LrBAQGxpgQAloxNjdZMf6l/7U520ZSIVuk7lFZcu0+J 5tUyQgHtS4EAplC1OBnYc8B3pzCir6VCXinmNbClgalXhrRFfmV7vTQLZySaVv/+ 0T44TFkJ0Ldu4cTsA2ertL0jcCXiBp38mhVK2IFbPtN+04B+een8jrUYtzx/qIj5 ztBpBb4yil8= =wBTR -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: bill.stewart@pobox.com Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 03:55:48 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: Gore Commission wants to regulate the Net like broadcast In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980122093613.00842e90@popd.ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 12:30 PM 1/21/98 -0800, Tim May wrote: >The Internet is about pure speech, about publishing. For the Gore >Commission to even _hint_ at regulating it is reprehensible. You know better than that, Tim - The Internet is about Commerce! The military started it, federal funding for universities made it popular, Physicists working for Foreign Governments and grad students at US government universities made the Web, and Big Commerce made it grow. It's all Federal Interest - trust them! And besides, IPv4 addresses _are_ a scarce resource that needs to be allocated for the public good, and IPv6 has to be stopped because it will devalue the addresses given to IPv4 users (which would be an unconstitutional "taking" of their entitlements) not to mention because it supports technology that could support narcoterrorist agents of foreign governments and money-laundering father-raping pornographers. >Video rental stores can also >deliver video signals, but there is no >(well, modulo the "obscenity" laws in various communities) >regulation of these sources. There's also regulation against revealing the rental records of individual customers (at least customers named Bork or Thomas), except to accommodate the legitimate needs of law endorsement or advertising. Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: bill.stewart@pobox.com Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 04:03:48 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: Revenge on the Nerds -Maureen on a rampage In-Reply-To: <19980121.080832.attila@hun.org> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980122094933.00844100@popd.ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >Jack Aaron's, the commodities division of Goldman Sachs, controls inter alia >like 99% of US coffee supply. if you try to circumvent their monopoly, >by trying to import a material amount of coffee, whether it's the cheap shit >for proles or the high-end caffeine fix from Kenya, you and your suppliers >just might find yourself in a lot more trouble that the computer manusfacturers >who were reluctant to put the free mickeysoft browser on their dekstop. >Why doesn't DOJ come down on Goldman Sachs? Does it have anything to do with >the fact that a Goldman Sachs partner is in Clinton's cabinet? Yow - talk about threats to the Computer Industry - Controlling our Coffee Supply can affect the productivity of the Entire Country! These Monopolists are after our precious bodily fluids! BTW, if you've ever been to Sacramento, CA, that hive of villiany and stupidity, there's apparently a law or custom which says that nobody may make or sell any coffee strong enough to wake up a government bureaucrat... Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Michael Stutz Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 23:13:38 +0800 To: "Igor Chudov @ home" Subject: Re: Revenge on the Nerds -Maureen on a rampage In-Reply-To: <199801220537.XAA00871@manifold.algebra.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Wed, 21 Jan 1998, Igor Chudov @ home wrote: > Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote: > > Speaking of browsers: I'd rather *pay* for a browser that has such an obvious > > feature as a list of URL regexps that you don't want to browse. > I suggest writing a proxy server that does such filtering, running it on > the local machine, and using it as proxy server from your netscape browser. > > There is a proxy server in form of a 20 line perl script, you > can take it and modify it. Try this: /sbin/route add -net 199.95.207.0 netmask 255.255.255.0 lo /sbin/route add -net 199.95.208.0 netmask 255.255.255.0 lo Goodbye doubleclick.net. ... Repeat as necessary with other ad networks. I wrote an init.d script for Debian GNU/Linux that automagically handles this for a couple ad networks, if you're intersted. Michael Stutz . http://dsl.org/m/ . copyright disclaimer etc stutz@dsl.org : finger for pgp : http://dsl.org/copyleft/ From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: bill.stewart@pobox.com Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 03:55:49 +0800 To: "'Cypherpunks'" Subject: Re: On the LAM--Local Area Mixes In-Reply-To: <01BD260F.23755960@d850.pppdel.vsnl.net.in> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980122103026.00844e80@popd.ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Wiring houses/business/etc. together simply for the purpose of mixes is difficult enough that it won't happen enough to be significant. On the other hand, cable modems keep claiming that they'll be widely deployed Real Soon Now, and at least some of the cable modem versions seem to support communications between users on the same cable or same chunk of the cable network, and may provide a useful medium, especially if broadcasts/multicasts are available. On a smaller scale, there are increasing numbers of office buildings that come with internet access, and the occasional Palo Alto apartment building is cooperatively wired. At 01:48 AM 1/21/98 +-5-30, Rishab Aiyer Ghosh wrote: >besides, if such technology becomes widespread in, say, the US, >then it's inevitable that the authorities will tend towards more >_real_ tyrannical behaviour, diluting search/seizure protections and >taking you closer to china. a weak vaccine > _strengthens_ the microbe it is supposed to kill. We've certainly seen that in the Drug Wars, with no-knock searches and similar attacks. On the other hand, use of search warrants in the US has always been honored more in the breach than the observance - the year before the Supreme Court issued the Exclusionary Rule, the New York City police didn't bother getting any search warrants, because the Constitutional requirement that they do so didn't have any real enforcement mechanism. However, LAMs and similar technology have the value that the police may not notice all the users in a cluster, especially passive lurkers, and the disappearance of multiple nodes allows the non-seized systems to get their data out to another data haven and clean up. Lurkers may be passive on the LAM, but forward data received from it out to other media. Running network protocols without ACKs takes a bit of work to get right, but you can run the ACKs in some outside channel to make sure you get everything; much of the work on multicast protocols can be used to implement it. Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Adam Shostack Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 23:53:32 +0800 To: whgiii@invweb.net Subject: Re: Misty??? In-Reply-To: <199801220634.BAA28888@users.invweb.net> Message-ID: <199801221545.KAA09941@homeport.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Carlisle Adams included it in his list of interesting cipherss in his talk at RSA. Lars Knudsen's Block Cipher Lounge does not list any known attacks. http://www.esat.kuleuven.ac.be/~knudsen/bc Matsui, its designer, is not stupid. He did the linear cryptanalysis of DES, which I think was the invention of linear cryptanalysis. Adam William H. Geiger III wrote: | Well on another mailing list I have been chastised for calling Misty | "snake-oil". | | Has anyone actually examined this algorithm? Seems there is an IETF Draft | on it (draft-ohta-misty1desc-00.txt). | | Any opinions on it?? My only exposure has be through the pidgon-english | posts of Nobuki Nakatuji (if it looks like a duck, it smells like a duck, | it quacks like a duck ....). -- "It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -Hume From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Adam Shostack Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 00:00:57 +0800 To: tcmay@got.net Subject: Re: Misty??? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801221554.KAA09992@homeport.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Tim May wrote: | At 9:08 PM -0800 1/21/98, William H. Geiger III wrote: | >Any opinions on it?? My only exposure has be through the pidgon-english | >posts of Nobuki Nakatuji (if it looks like a duck, it smells like a duck, | >it quacks like a duck ....). | | I wouldn't call Misty "snake oil." But it's also been thoroughly taken | apart and shown to be weak. Importantly, it was submitted by Mitsubishi for | peer review. Could you provide a pointer to the analysis paper? Adam ObCypherpunk: I think that 9mm is far superior to .45 due to its lower recoil. -- "It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -Hume From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Paul Bradley" Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 19:12:58 +0800 To: "Nobuki Nakatuji" Subject: Re: Ultra computer In-Reply-To: <19980122011204.22624.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <4A2EFF7EEF@ou20.csm.port.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > Ultra computer which NEC had the calculation speed of the world > maximum of about 1000 times of the super computer to was decided > to be developed. Ultra sushi maximum of 10000000000 earth fishes chop-chopped. Me go sushi bar, too much Sake me say. -- Paul Bradley paul@fatmans.demon.co.uk "Why should anyone want to live on rails?" - Stephen Fry From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Marshall Clow Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 03:32:50 +0800 To: Bill Frantz Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 8:36 PM -0800 1/21/98, Bill Frantz wrote: >At 12:30 PM -0800 1/21/98, Tim May wrote: >>At 1:34 PM -0800 1/20/98, Declan McCullagh wrote: >>>Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:20:23 -0500 >>>From: Alan Moseley >>>To: declan@well.com >>>Subject: the Gore Commission and digital media >>> >>>The Gore Commission -- the group created by Clinton to determine the >>>future public interest obligations of digital TV broadcasters -- showed >>>signs last week of broadening its reach to include other digital media >>>that can deliver broadcast-like audio and video. >>>... >>> The recent experience of the Communications Decency Act >>>demonstrates the government's willingness to control digital speech. The > //eagerness >>>digital convergence argument could be a new rationale for further such >>>interventions, Maines warned. >> >>Just because the Internet can deliver audio and video signals is hardly a >>matter of "allocating scarce resources." Video rental stores can also >>deliver video signals, but there is no (well, modulo the "obscenity" laws >>in various communities) regulation of these sources. > >Presumably they intend to also regulate live theater. It can also deliver >audio and video. FUBAR. > Nope. Just places that rent or sell DVDs and CDs. "Other Digital Media". FUBAR, indeed. -- Marshall Marshall Clow Adobe Systems Warning: Objects in calendar are closer than they appear. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Robert Hettinga Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 01:26:26 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Financial Cryptography '98 Preliminary Program Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain --- begin forwarded text Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 23:41:27 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: online.offshore.com.ai: list set sender to fc98-request@offshore.com.ai using -f Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 04:25:40 +0100 (MET) From: Ray Hirschfeld To: R.Hirschfeld@cwi.nl Subject: Financial Cryptography '98 Preliminary Program Resent-From: fc98@offshore.com.ai X-Mailing-List: archive/latest X-Loop: fc98@offshore.com.ai Precedence: list Resent-Sender: fc98-request@offshore.com.ai Financial Cryptography '98 Second International Conference February 23-25, 1998, Anguilla, BWI CONFERENCE PROGRAM General Information: Financial Cryptography '98 (FC98) is a conference on the security of digital financial transactions. Meetings alternate between the island of Anguilla in the British West Indies and other locations. This second meeting will be held in Anguilla on February 23-25, 1998. FC98 aims to bring together persons involved in both the financial and data security fields to foster cooperation and exchange of ideas. Original papers were solicited on all aspects of financial data security and digital commerce in general. Program Committee: Matt Blaze, AT&T Laboratories--Research, Florham Park, NJ, USA Antoon Bosselaers, Katholieke Universiteit Leuven, Leuven, Belgium Yves Carlier, Bank for International Settlements, Basel, Switzerland Walter Effross, Washington College of Law, American U., Washington DC, USA Matthew Franklin (Co-Chair), AT&T Laboratories--Research, Florham Park, NJ, USA Michael Froomkin, U. Miami School of Law, Coral Gables, FL, USA Rafael Hirschfeld (Chair), Unipay Technologies, Amsterdam, The Netherlands Alain Mayer, Bell Laboratories/Lucent Technologies, Murray Hill, NJ, USA Moni Naor, Weizmann Institute of Science, Rehovot, Israel Frank Trotter, Mark Twain Ecash/Mercantile Bank, St. Louis, MO, USA Doug Tygar, Carnegie Mellon University, Pittsburgh, PA, USA Moti Yung, CertCo LLC (formerly: Bankers Trust E-Commerce), New York, NY, USA Conference Program for FC98: Monday 23 February 1998 800 -- 820 Breakfast 820 -- 830 Welcome 830 -- 905 Micropayments via Efficient Coin-Flipping Richard J. Lipton (Princeton University, Princeton, NJ, USA) Rafail Ostrovsky (Bellcore, Morristown, NJ, USA) 905 -- 940 X-Cash: Executable Digital Cash Markus Jakobsson (Bell Laboratories, Murray Hill, NJ, USA) Ari Juels (RSA Laboratories, Bedford, MA, USA) 940 -- 1015 Billing Without Paper...Or Billing Without Billers? Caveat Biller: 3rd Party Concentrators Could Come Between You and Your Customers Richard K. Crone (CyberCash, Reston, VA, USA) 1015 -- 1045 Coffee Break 1045 -- 1120 A Platform for Privately Defined Currencies, Loyalty Credits, and Play Money David P. Maher (AT&T Labs--Research, Florham Park, NJ, USA) 1120 -- 1155 Assessment of Threats for Smart Card Based Electronic Cash Kazuo J. Ezawa, Gregory Napiorkowski (Mondex International, Florham Park, NJ, USA) 1155 -- 1230 Using a High-Performance, Programmable Secure Coprocessor Sean W. Smith, Elaine R. Palmer, Steve Weingart (IBM T.J. Watson Research Center, Yorktown Heights, NY, USA) 1230 -- 1330 Lunch 1800 -- 1930 Cocktail Reception (at Mariners Hotel) Tuesday 24 February 1998 800 -- 830 Breakfast 830 -- 905 Secure Group Barter: Multi-Party Fair Exchange with Semi-Trusted Neutral Parties Matt Franklin (AT&T Labs--Research, Florham Park, NJ, USA) Gene Tsudik (USC Information Sciences Institute, Marina del Rey, CA, USA) 905 -- 940 A Payment Scheme Using Vouchers Ernest Foo, Colin Boyd (Queensland University of Technology, Brisbane, Australia) 940 -- 1015 A Formal Specification of Requirements for Payment Transactions in the SET Protocol Catherine Meadows, Paul Syverson (Naval Research Laboratory, Washington, DC, USA) 1015 -- 1045 Coffee Break 1045 -- 1120 On Assurance Structures for WWW Commerce Markus Jakobsson (Bell Laboratories, Murray Hill, NJ, USA) Moti Yung (CertCo, New York, NY, USA) 1120 -- 1230 Panel Discussion Certificate Revocation: Mechanics and Meaning Barb Fox (Microsoft, Redmond, WA, USA), moderator Joan Feigenbaum (AT&T Labs--Research, Florham Park, NJ, USA) Paul Kocher (Valicert, Palo Alto, CA, USA) Michael Myers (Verisign, Mountain View, CA, USA) Ron Rivest (MIT Laboratory for Computer Science, Cambridge, MA, USA) 1230 -- 1330 Lunch 2000 -- 2200 Rump Session Wednesday 25 February 1998 800 -- 830 Breakfast 830 -- 930 Invited Speaker Private Signatures and E-commerce David Chaum (DigiCash, Palo Alto, CA, USA) 930 -- 1005 Group Blind Digital Signatures: A Scalable Solution to Electronic Cash Anna Lysyanskaya, Zulfikar Ramzan (MIT Laboratory for Computer Science, Cambridge, MA, USA) 1005 -- 1045 Coffee Break 1045 -- 1120 Curbing Junk E-Mail via Secure Classification Eran Gabber, Markus Jakobsson, Yossi Matias, Alain Mayer (Bell Laboratories, Murray Hill, NJ, USA) 1120 -- 1155 Publicly Verifiable Lotteries: Applications of Delaying Functions David M. Goldschlag (Divx, Herndon, VA, USA) Stuart G. Stubblebine (AT&T Labs--Research, Florham Park, NJ, USA) 1155 -- 1230 Security of Digital Watermarks Lesley R. Matheson, Stephen G. Mitchell, Talal G. Shamoon, Robert E. Tarjan, Francis X. Zane (STAR Lab, InterTrust Technologies, Sunnyvale, CA, USA) 1230 -- 1330 Lunch 1330 -- 1405 Security in the Java Electronic Commerce Framework Surya Koneru, Ted Goldstein (JavaSoft, Palo Alto, CA, USA) 1405 -- 1440 Beyond Identity: Warranty-Based Digital Signature Transactions Yair Frankel, David W. Kravitz, Charles T. Montgomery, Moti Yung (CertCo, New York, NY, USA) 1440 -- 1515 Compliance Checking in the PolicyMaker Trust Management System Matt Blaze, Joan Feigenbaum, Martin Strauss (AT&T Labs--Research, Florham Park, NJ, USA) 1515 -- 1545 Coffee Break 1545 -- 1620 An Efficient Fair Off-Line Electronic Cash System with Extensions to Checks and Wallets with Observers Aymeric de Solages, Jacque Traore (France Telecom--CNET, Caen, France) 1620 -- 1655 An Efficient Untraceable Electronic Money System Based on Partially Blind Signatures of the Discrete Logarithm Problem Shingo Mayazaki, Kouichi Sakurai (Kyushu University, Fukuoka, Japan) 1655 -- 1700 Closing The conference schedule and additional information is available at the URL http://www.cwi.nl/conferences/FC98/. Breakfast and lunch are provided at the conference. The conference organizers have left time open for corporate sponsored events, for networking, and for recreational activities on the resort island of Anguilla. Participants are encouraged to bring their families. Workshop: A 40-hour workshop, intended for anyone with commercial software development experience who wants hands-on familiarity with the issues and technology of financial cryptography, is planned in conjunction with FC98, to be held during the week following the conference. For more information on the workshop, please see the URL http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~iang/fc98/workshop.html. For workshop registration, see the URL http://fc98.ai/. Special Attraction: On Thursday, February 26, 1998, there will be a total eclipse of the sun. The narrow zone of 100% totality will pass just south of Anguilla. A boat excursion to the center of the eclipse zone is planned, for an optimal view of the eclipse. The excursion is included in the conference registration; additional tickets can be purchased for accompanying persons. Venue: The Inter-Island Hotel is a small 14-room guest house with a large, comfortable 150-seat conference facility and additional space for a small 10-booth exhibition. The Inter-Island is on Road Bay, near Sandy Ground Village, in the South Hill section of Anguilla. The conference, workshop, and exhibition will have TCP/IP internet access. Shuttle service to the conference will be available. Air Transportation and Hotels: Air travel to Anguilla is typically done through San Juan for US flights, or St. Maarten/Martin for flights from Europe and the US. There are also connections via Antigua. Anguillan import duties are not imposed on hardware or software which will leave the island again. There are no other taxes--or cryptography import/export restrictions--on Anguilla. Hotels range from spartan to luxurious, and more information about hotels on Anguilla can be obtained from your travel agent, or at the URL http://fc98.ai/. A block reservation has been made at Mariners, and this is the recommended hotel except for those seeking budget accomodations. General Chairs: Robert Hettinga, Shipwright, Boston, MA, USA email: rah@shipwright.com Vincent Cate, Offshore Information Services, Anguilla, BWI email: vince@offshore.com.ai Exhibits and Sponsorship Manager: Blanc Weber, Seattle, WA, USA email: blancw@cnw.com Workshop Leader: Ian Goldberg, Berkeley, CA, USA email: iang@cs.berkeley.edu Registration: You can register and pay for conference admission via the World Wide Web at the URL http://fc98.ai/. The cost of the FC98 Conference is US$1,000. There are reduced rates of US$250 and US$100 for full-time academics and students. Booths for the exhibition start at US$5,000 and include two conference tickets. For more information about exhibit space, contact Blanc Weber, blancw@cnw.com. Sponsorship opportunities for FC98 are still available. The cost of the workshop is US$5000, and includes meals but not lodging. You can register for the workshop, which runs the week after the conference, at the URL http://fc98.ai/. Financial Cryptography '98 is held in cooperation with the International Association for Cryptologic Research. It is sponsored by: RSA Data Security Inc. C2NET, Inc. Hansa Bank & Trust Company Limited, Anguilla Sicherheit und Privat- International Bank Offshore Information Services e$ --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/ Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 05:07:14 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Why no "Banner Ad Eaters"? In-Reply-To: <34c704c2.971366@128.2.84.191> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 8:21 AM -0800 1/22/98, bill.stewart@pobox.com wrote: >What I'd really like to see in a browser is an option to >turn off animated GIFs (other than by killing all images.) > Yeah, I'm surprised that "banner ad eaters" have not been widely deployed. (If they're available, I haven't about them.) Something to remove the annoying banners, or stop them from wasting valuable time loading in the first place. These would be comparable to "television commercial killers," which have not really been feasible, as the pattern recognition methods (like increased volume for commercials) are not reliable. But with banner ads, this should be possible. Whether through a plug-in, or through a "patched" version of Navigator or Explorere. (In fact, why don't these vendors offer a switch to turn off downloading of ads? I think I know the marketing reason, but this still suggests a market opportunity for someone to jump in with a patched version, or a "advertising-free" browser.) BTW, some of the notorious features of the new "anti-hacking" laws make disassembly of programs, like browsers, illegal. While they won't bother with folks who just fool around with disassembling code, they might use these anti-hacking laws to throw the book at anyone who made such a banner-eater available. After all, directly infringing on the rights of advertisers to beam their shit into our eyeballs is America's most serious crime. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 03:59:48 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: On the LAM--Local Area Mixes (fwd) Message-ID: <199801221953.NAA09086@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 10:30:26 -0800 > Original-From: Bill Stewart > Subject: Re: On the LAM--Local Area Mixes > the year before the Supreme Court issued the Exclusionary Rule, > the New York City police didn't bother getting any search warrants, > because the Constitutional requirement that they do so didn't have > any real enforcement mechanism. Are police considered an extension of the judicial or the executive arm of the government? ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Brad Threatt Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 07:29:00 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Re: Why no "Banner Ad Eaters"? In-Reply-To: <34c704c2.971366@128.2.84.191> Message-ID: <34C7D3EF.632F@ehq.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Tim May wrote: > > At 8:21 AM -0800 1/22/98, bill.stewart@pobox.com wrote: > > >What I'd really like to see in a browser is an option to > >turn off animated GIFs (other than by killing all images.) > Yeah, I'm surprised that "banner ad eaters" have not been widely > deployed. (If they're available, I haven't about them.) > Something to remove the annoying banners, or stop them from > wasting valuable time loading in the first place. There are several examples people have mentioned here: Roxen, junkbuster, etc. I happen to use one called WebFilter, a patched CERN httpd (http://math-www.uni-paderborn.de/~axel/NoShit) which allows program filtering based on URL regexp matching. Of course, now that Netscape's releasing their source code, what would *really* help the practice take off would be integration of one of these systems into Netscape. On the downside, this is sure to trigger an ad Arms Race, with content providers melding together content and ads. Right now, I can view the web with almost no ads, but if a million people are filtering ads off a site, you can bet there will be countermeasures, and lots of them. It's difficult to imagine the filters winning, without more advanced support (for example, cropping images to remove ads, and collaborative filtering pools). But if a million people are using the system, and 0.01% are coders committed to making it work, well, you can do a lot with 100 brains. > BTW, some of the notorious features of the new "anti-hacking" laws > make disassembly of programs, like browsers, illegal. While they > won't bother with folks who just fool around with disassembling > code, they might use these anti-hacking laws to throw the book at > anyone who made such a banner-eater available. Proxies can do the same thing, and just as well, IMO, and it doesn't require any ugly binary patching. -MT From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Ryan Anderson Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 04:46:10 +0800 To: Steve Schear Subject: Re: Intel introduces new compression technology for surfers [CNN] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > Maybe they dynamically turn off the modem compression feature at both ends during an image download. LZW-like compression actually adds overhead to files which are non-text based. But any modern modem has v.42bis, and with v.42bis it automatically shuts off the compression anyway! (Maybe that was just v.42, I forget, but it doesn't have the problems that MNP5 has with compressed files) Either way, this feature already exists.... Ryan Anderson - Alpha Geek PGP fp: 7E 8E C6 54 96 AC D9 57 E4 F8 AE 9C 10 7E 78 C9 print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 04:51:30 +0800 To: Nobuki Nakatuji Subject: Re: Ultra computer In-Reply-To: <19980122011204.22624.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Wed, 21 Jan 1998, Nobuki Nakatuji wrote: > Ultra computer which NEC had the calculation speed of the world > maximum of about 1000 times of the super computer to was decided > to be developed. > Ultra computer will be completed in 2001. > It has the performance that the calculation which takes 10000 years > with the personal computer is made of 3, 4 days. For reference, my head hurts after trying to read this. Can you provide any sources for this information? I would prefer a url, but a book or magazine would be fine. Is this supposed to compete with Intels 9000 processor Pentium Pro cluster? Ryan Anderson - Alpha Geek PGP fp: 7E 8E C6 54 96 AC D9 57 E4 F8 AE 9C 10 7E 78 C9 print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 05:02:04 +0800 To: "William H. Geiger III" Subject: Re: Misty??? In-Reply-To: <199801220815.DAA29824@users.invweb.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > Someone on the OpenPGP list was asking for an asignment for an algorithm > id in the OpenPGP RFC for Misty1 (from Japan whoda thought ). I made my > post about snake-oil and got chastised by hal@pgp.com as he seems to think > it's a respectable algorithm: Well, he said that he wasn't aware of any serious cryptanalysis, specifically on this list. In all honesty, that's a fully truthful statement. Tim May has conveniently confirmed that there *has* been some real cryptanalysis on it, confirming that it's not a good algorithm, but it's not snake-oil. (If it get's submitted for peer review, can you really call it that?) I'm going to wager that all Hal was saying is that he had seen no evidence to that effect, and that you had presentted none. > > >>Misty is described in the proceedings of the most recent annual > >>conference on fast encryption algorithms. It is designed to be provably > >>resistant to linear and differential cryptanalysis. As a new set of > >>algorithms (a few variants exist under the "Misty" label), it is one of > >>many where a "wait and see" attitude is appropriate to see how it holds > >>up. As a patented algorithm, it may have trouble competing with > >>alternatives that are free of restrictions. > >> > >>However your charge that it is "snake-oil" seems unfounded. It appears > >>to be a respectable academic development effort, within the mainstream > >>of cryptographic research, and has some reasonable-looking theory behind > >>it. As far as I know there has been no cryptanalysis or technical > >>commentary of any sort regarding Misty on the cypherpunks mailing list. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Adam Shostack Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 05:00:30 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net (Cypherpunks Mailing List) Subject: Re: Misty??? (fwd) Message-ID: <199801222053.PAA12335@homeport.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Anonymous wrote: |Adam Back wrote: Well, for the record, that was me, not Mr. Back, but who can tell the difference? |> Tim May wrote: |> | I wouldn't call Misty "snake oil." But it's also been thoroughly taken |> | apart and shown to be weak. Importantly, it was submitted by Mitsubishi for |> | peer review. |> |> Could you provide a pointer to the analysis paper? | |Adam, you should know better than to ask. Everyone knows you can't |trust a bigot to do cryptography. Tim "Chop Chop" May's opinions about |Misty are based not on the strength of the cipher, but on the ethnicity |of the creator. Its clear to me that Nobuki baits Tim, and Tim baits Nobuki. Its not as entertaining as the Detwieler days (where we would have gotten the claimn that Tim and Nobuki were the same), but hey.. I'm perfectly happy to let bigots do my cryptanalysis for me. As long as they get positive results, hey, I'm more secure. Not believing that the Americans could break German engineering was one of the failures of the Enigma team. Adam -- "It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -Hume From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jrbl Pookah Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 05:18:48 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Communicator 5.0 to be GPL'ed Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Here's something I came across on one of my other lists. I looked at the URL, and it looked good. Anybody able to confirm/deny? And what kind of implications do y'all think this'll have for Netscape's security? (What if improved security code comes to Netscape from bodies /outside/ the US?) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 10:33:21 -0800 (PST) From: Subject: Communicator 5.0 to be GPL'ed Yes its true !! http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/980122/ca_netscap_3.html woo hoo!! Dex- ----End Forwarded Message--- -- Joseph Blaylock Castle Computers, Inc. JOAT,MODF blaylock@castlec.com (513)469-0888 YMMV -- "Everything is perfect, but there is a lot of room for improvement." ---Shunryu Suzuki From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Ray Arachelian Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 05:40:48 +0800 To: Tim May Subject: Re: Why no "Banner Ad Eaters"? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, Tim May wrote: > BTW, some of the notorious features of the new "anti-hacking" laws make > disassembly of programs, like browsers, illegal. While they won't bother > with folks who just fool around with disassembling code, they might use > these anti-hacking laws to throw the book at anyone who made such a > banner-eater available. Fuck that, Netscape is soon to be GPL'd. > After all, directly infringing on the rights of advertisers to beam their > shit into our eyeballs is America's most serious crime. Probably considered more serious than murder by them. =====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos============== .+.^.+.| Ray Arachelian |Prying open my 3rd eye. So good to see |./|\. ..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were |/\|/\ <--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run |\/|\/ ../|\..| "A toast to Odin, |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/. .+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were.... |..... ======================= http://www.sundernet.com ========================== From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: John Blair Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 06:55:26 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: Why no "Banner Ad Eaters"? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801222241.QAA04237@frodo.tucc.uab.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- tcmay@got.net said: > Yeah, I'm surprised that "banner ad eaters" have not been widely > deployed. (If they're available, I haven't about them.) Something to > remove the annoying banners, or stop them from wasting valuable time > loading in the first place. Netscape just announced that they're going to release the source code to Communicator 5.0 with a license that allows modification and redistribution "in the heritage of the GNU Public License." No details on the specific license yet, but it sounds *very* hopeful. The point is... we *will* be able to add all the funky new features we want. Complaining about the browser will no longer be acceptable now that we will be able to *do* something about it. It also means that Microsoft will get to compete head-to-head with a real free software model. This is an excellent opportunity to demonstrate what the free software model can do. I can already envision non-Netscape "distributions," custom browser modifications for big customers, etc. More info here: http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/980122/ca_netscap_3.html http://www.yahoo.com/headlines/980122/business/stories/netscape_1.html http://www.infoworld.com/cgi-bin/displayStory.pl?980122.ehnetcode.htm -john. ...................................................................... . . .....John.D.Blair... mailto:jdblair@uab.edu phoneto:205.975.7123 . . http://frodo.tucc.uab.edu faxto:205.975.7129 . ..sys|net.admin.... . . the university computer center ..... ..... g.e.e.k.n.i.k...the.university.of.alabama.at.birmingham.... -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBNMfLCwJjTpK3AXhBAQHDMQP+LaUVmDpm2Rv8EPVCkd1o389OrOKi/3EY MKmlHaeruFKhAf1tCcY78C8I6Ofm0jbZJ9s1sHOWprqjAbi4l+C53GlQoGNCuD6R x9Zm3fflfRbMF0slUqNUcAxVMPF8Qjh5YC2f6iOchIq0GgxnO8B53r5cUwri5Ne9 pYaq2/HpAow= =eG/n -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Michael Stutz Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 05:56:22 +0800 To: Tim May Subject: Re: Why no "Banner Ad Eaters"? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, Tim May wrote: > Yeah, I'm surprised that "banner ad eaters" have not been widely deployed. > Whether through a plug-in, or through a "patched" version of Navigator or > Explorere. I suspect that new versions of Navigator will have these features plus much more: From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Burnes Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 08:02:46 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Premail/PERL 5.004 fix Message-ID: <34C7DCF4.CFB97BFA@ssds.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Punks: I've needed to upgrade PERL recently to 5.004 because some new software wouldn't work without it. I didn't want to do it because I heard it would break premail. I decided to DL the old perl-5.003 RPM from sunsite just in case 5.004 really screwed premail up. The actual truth of the matter is that 5.004 just warns you that premail re-declares several variable. Apparently this has no effect on the program, but those warnings are pretty annoying. Here is now you fix it: Define a WARN trap that checks a variable (DOWARN) to see whether it should warn or not. Since the re-declarations occurr in three different places you just have to set DOWARN to 0 before the line and then DOWARN to 1 after the line. Crude, but effective. Most of this code can be found by doing a man page on 'perlfunc', but I thought I'd save someone the time. Here is the diff for premail version .449. 100a101,102 > BEGIN { $SIG{'__WARN__'} = sub { warn $_[0] if $DOWARN } } > $DOWARN = 0; 1274a1277 > $DOWARN = 0; 1275a1279 > $DOWARN = 1; 1356a1361 > $DOWARN = 0; 1357a1363 > $DOWARN = 1; 6319a6326 > $DOWARN = 0; 6320a6328 > $DOWARN = 1; Your milelage may vary... Jim Burnes jim.burnes@ssds.com From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 07:29:17 +0800 To: Subject: State of the Union Address Message-ID: <199801222322.RAA24666@pc1824.ibpinc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Hear that the State of the Union next Monday has a section on Internet - networks - critical infrastructure protection et al. Anyone have any details? From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Bill Stewart Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 12:39:51 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: Gore Commission wants to regulate the Net like broadcast In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980122173404.0083e100@popd.ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >>These attempts at regulation show just how terrified they are of true free >>speech and every man a publisher. > >Yes, they need "choke points" to control the anarchy. > >As with the British plan to license a series of "certificate authorities," >or U.S. plans/wishes to do the same thing, this effectively forces all >citizen-units to sign up with one of the authorized certificate issuers. >(This is why certificate-based systems are so heinous.) It's not just the government - the mass media have been scared of the Net for a long time because it disintermediates them. The recent flap about the Drudge Report and the lack of fact-checking and quality is a good example of that - the spin has been very negative about the dangers of uncontrolled, uncensored, unthrottled speech. An alternative spin could be to emphasize signal-to-noise and the far better quality of information that traditional media can provide. While I've got some disagreements about James Donald's explanations of Crypto Kong's model (no need for CAs, etc. vs. the simple approaches for replicating the Web Of Trust and CAs using his tools), once nice thing about it is that you don't use anything called a "certificate" - it just compares whether a message is signed by the same key that a previous message was. That previous message can be a vanilla message, or an introductory note from someone (Alice saying that Bob's key is 457HLJCR8YFDG7807FG7FD87G, and that this is the Bob she met at the Peace Center fundraiser), or a note from Catbert the HR Director saying Bob works at MegaFooBar, or a note from BankFoo that the checks from account 23123124 need to be signed by key 93243248329048. While they work like key signatures, they don't look like CA signatures, they look like ordinary correspondence. Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Bill Stewart Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 12:43:21 +0800 To: John Young Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980122175410.0083dbf0@popd.ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 12:24 PM 1/21/98 -0500, John Young wrote: >Not much from the West Coast since the C2-CP meet on >Saturday. Were they all busted, or fragged, or has the >underground mole hole at last been taken? > >What, C2 shanghai-ed them all, with irrefusable bucks >galore to securely distribute porn, NDA$ accomplishing >what TLAs couldn't. Well, we got there and there was a note on the door saying we had to "sign in credibly" and not freak the guards, so some people signed in credibly and some signed incredibly. Sameer did take down the Police Line Do Not Cross tape and let us get at the sodas; perhaps that bribed some people :-) We had a reasonably good crowd, and a bunch of out-of-towners got to talk about what they were doing and work in progress. Peter Trei did a nice rehash of his talk on the state of key cracking, somewhat more technical than the layperson version he'd done at the RSA show. It keeps getting easier; 40 bits is laughable, 56 is work, but very crackable, even for RC5, and 64 bits will take years at the current rate - he and some others would rather see the next big distributed cracks going for RSA 512-bit keys. Hardware has been advancing a good bit as well as distributed efforts. The social dynamics of distributed cracking are much different than expected - the feeling of community that teams have appears to be more of a motivator than the prize for most people, so coordinated efforts have been the big contributors. The talk on export control was put off until another meeting, though Greg Broiles gave a nice short summary of what's going on. He'd appreciate input on other people's experience getting products through the export bureaucrats. Hugh talked about the state of FreeS/WAN Linux IPSEC, and also about Secure DNS, which he and John Gilmore recently went through the paperwork of exporting, crypto source and all. Lucky Green talked about the Smartcard activities - he and his unindicted co-conspirators discovered that they're the only group making public smartcard support tools that aren't controlled by a smartcard vendor. Check them out on cypherpunks.to. Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Steve Schear Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 10:32:42 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: Gore Commission wants to regulate the Net like broadcast In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 11:26 PM -0800 1/21/98, Tim May wrote: >Which leaves unruly Cypherpunks still running free. > >(Which is why I would look for signs that Congress will seek to make ISPs >responsible for political speech, a la the Chinese actions. Not this year, >not next, but someday. Except it won't be explicitly a law about political >speech, it'll be something about dangerous information, safety of the >children, etc.) But if rapes or kill just one child... --Steve From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Steve Schear Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 11:51:27 +0800 To: Ryan Anderson Subject: Re: Intel introduces new compression technology for surfers [CNN] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 3:31 PM -0500 1/22/98, Ryan Anderson wrote: >> Maybe they dynamically turn off the modem compression feature at both ends during an image download. LZW-like compression actually adds overhead to files which are non-text based. > >But any modern modem has v.42bis, and with v.42bis it automatically shuts >off the compression anyway! (Maybe that was just v.42, I forget, but it >doesn't have the problems that MNP5 has with compressed files) > >Either way, this feature already exists.... Thanks for straightening this out. I was thinking of MNP5 and couldn't find my modem's referemce manual to consider v.42/bis. --Steve From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Anonymous Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 07:48:49 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com Subject: Ultra computer Message-ID: <1c103cd4daa62b5cabf50f16f87903e1@anon.efga.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Go back to the sushi bar and read your English book. Chop chop. >Ultra computer which NEC had the calculation speed of the world >maximum of about 1000 times of the super computer to was decided >to be developed. >Ultra computer will be completed in 2001. >It has the performance that the calculation which takes 10000 years >with the personal computer is made of 3, 4 days. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Anonymous Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 02:23:35 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: Misty??? Message-ID: <199801221755.SAA04504@basement.replay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Adam Back wrote: > Tim May wrote: > | I wouldn't call Misty "snake oil." But it's also been thoroughly taken > | apart and shown to be weak. Importantly, it was submitted by Mitsubishi for > | peer review. > > Could you provide a pointer to the analysis paper? Adam, you should know better than to ask. Everyone knows you can't trust a bigot to do cryptography. Tim "Chop Chop" May's opinions about Misty are based not on the strength of the cipher, but on the ethnicity of the creator. On Thu, 11 Sep 1997 22:09:15, Tim May wrote: > At 9:30 PM -0700 9/11/97, Nobuki Nakatuji wrote: > >Does anybody know MITSUBISHI MISTY algorithm ? > >If you know it,Please send e-mail to me. > > > > You want me play Misty for you? You send me $2500, I play Misty. > > Like you do, I take much money, chop chop. > > (Now shut the fuck up and get the hell off our list with your demands for > money to explain your bullshit one time pad scheme.) From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "William H. Geiger III" Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 09:13:28 +0800 To: Markus Kuhn Subject: Re: Netscape 5 will be GPL'ed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801230126.UAA05518@users.invweb.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In , on 01/22/98 at 11:04 PM, Markus Kuhn said: >I wonder how long we have to wait for the day on which >we can download the latest GPL'ed Windows NT version source code from >Microsoft's web server ... What for, the best it would be good for is as an exercise on how not to write code. - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- Tag-O-Matic: I don't do Windows, but OS/2 does. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a-sha1 Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBNMff149Co1n+aLhhAQETvQQAifWL4p9iEvYGzI8uHPaRhrh9/KU7A800 M/MlYnJxDzfqm8H88Hf1fso8Tybi1r2jJFdfWPXgsjuAYVNsw8JLeYRodhSvpRnq LE5IIKAiMbn7u9caubdOF4cAZkbonZ6IsJnfouQiWfpX0R2AuhhBvn5mxnnY/wlu lazyBsd2qeI= =hQ9R -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 11:14:02 +0800 To: redgod@usa.net Subject: Re: (eternity) Re: Eternity Services In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980123104820.007ab4c0@iuol.cn.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 6:49 PM -0800 1/22/98, redgod@usa.net wrote: >FUCK! >WHO REGISTER ME TO THIS MAILING LIST? >CAN YOU TELL ME HOW TO REMOVE MYSELF FROM IT? >I WILL MAD! >OH GOD! TOO MANY EMAIL! Ah, yet another articulate subscriber of one of these lists. (This dweeb doesn't even say whether he's getting Cypherpunks or Eternity list traffic, as both are on the cc: list.) You are hereby condemned to receive all the rants of Nobuki-san, Detweiler tentacles, and Dim Vulis artwork. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 10:29:48 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com Subject: toc.htm Message-ID: <199801230215.UAA11347@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain FEDERAL GUIDELINES FOR SEARCHING AND SEIZING COMPUTERS TABLE OF CONTENTS PREFACE INTRODUCTION I. KEY TERMS AND CONCEPTS A. DEFINITIONS B. LIST OF COMPUTER SYSTEM COMPONENTS C. DETERMINING THE COMPUTER'S ROLE IN THE OFFENSE II. GENERAL PRINCIPLES A. SEARCH WARRANTS B. PLAIN VIEW C. EXIGENT CIRCUMSTANCES D. BORDER SEARCHES E. CONSENT SEARCHES 1. Scope of the Consent 2. Third-Party Consent a. General Rules b. Spouses c. Parents d. Employers e. Networks: System Administrators F. INFORMANTS AND UNDERCOVER AGENTS III. SEIZING HARDWARE A. THE INDEPENDENT COMPONENT DOCTRINE B. HARDWARE AS CONTRABAND OR FRUITS OF CRIME 1. Authority for Seizing Contraband or Fruits of Crime 2. Contraband and Fruits of Crime Defined C. HARDWARE AS AN INSTRUMENTALITY OF THE OFFENSE 1. Authority for Seizing Instrumentalities 2. Instrumentalities Defined D. HARDWARE AS EVIDENCE OF AN OFFENSE 1. Authority for Seizing Evidence 2. Evidence Defined E. TRANSPORTING HARDWARE FROM THE SCENE IV. SEARCHING FOR AND SEIZING INFORMATION A. INTRODUCTION B. INFORMATION AS CONTRABAND C. INFORMATION AS AN INSTRUMENTALITY D. INFORMATION AS EVIDENCE 1. Evidence of Identity 2. Specific Types of Evidence a. Hard Copy Printouts b. Handwritten Notes E. PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION 1. In General a. Doctors, Lawyers, and Clergy b. Publishers and Authors 2. Targets 3. Using Special Masters F. UNDERSTANDING WHERE THE EVIDENCE MIGHT BE: STAND-ALONE PCs, NETWORKS AND FILE-SERVERS, BACKUPS, ELECTRONIC BULLETIN BOARDS, AND ELECTRONIC MAIL 1. Stand-Alone PCs a. Input/Output Devices: Do Monitors, Modems, Printers, and Keyboards Ever Need to be Searched? b. Routine Data Backups 2. Networked PCs a. Routine Backups b. Disaster Backups G. SEARCHING FOR INFORMATION 1. Business Records and Other Documents 2. Data Created or Maintained by Targets 3. Limited Data Searches 4. Discovering the Unexpected a. Items Different from the Description in the Warrant b. Encryption H. DECIDING WHETHER TO CONDUCT THE SEARCH ON-SITE OR TO REMOVE HARDWARE TO ANOTHER LOCATION 1. Seizing Computers because of the Volume of Evidence a. Broad Warrant Authorizes Voluminous Seizure of Documents b. Warrant is Narrowly Drawn but Number of Document to be Sifted through is Enormous c. Warrant Executed in the Home d. Applying Existing Rules to Computers 2. Seizing Computers because of Technical Concerns a. Conducting a Controlled Search to Avoid Destroying Data b. Seizing Hardware and Documentation so the System Will Operate at the Lab I. EXPERT ASSISTANCE 1. Introduction 2. Finding Experts a. Federal Sources b. Private Experts (1) Professional Computer Organizations (2) Universities (3) Computer and Telecommunications Industry Personnel (4) The Victim 3. What the Experts Can Do a. Search Planning and Execution b. Electronic Analysis c. Trial Preparation d. Training for Field Agents V. NETWORKS AND BULLETIN BOARDS A. INTRODUCTION B. THE PRIVACY PROTECTION ACT, 42 U.S.C. § 2000aa 1. A Brief History of the Privacy Protection Act 2. Work Product Materials 3. Documentary Materials 4. Computer Searches and the Privacy Protection Act a. The Reasonable Belief Standard b. Similar Form of Public Communication c. Unique Problems: Unknown Targets and Commingled Materials 5. Approval of Deputy Assistant Attorney General Required C. STORED ELECTRONIC COMMUNICATIONS VI. DRAFTING THE WARRANT A. DRAFTING A WARRANT TO SEIZE HARDWARE B. DRAFTING A WARRANT TO SEIZE INFORMATION 1. Describing the Place to be Searched a. General Rule: Obtain a Second Warrant b. Handling Multiple Sites within the Same District c. Handling Multiple Sites in Different Districts d. Information at an Unknown Site e. Information/Devices Which Have Been Moved 2. Describing the Items to be Seized 3. Removing Hardware to Search Off-Site: Ask th Magistrate for Explicit Permission. 4. Seeking Authority for a No-Knock Warrant a. In General b. In Computer-Related Cases VII. POST-SEARCH PROCEDURES A. INTRODUCTION B. PROCEDURES FOR PRESERVING EVIDENCE 1. Chain of Custody 2. Organization 3. Keeping Records 4. Returning Seized Computers and Materials a. Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure: Rule 41(e) b. Hardware c. Documentation d. Notes and Papers e. Third-Party Owners VIII. EVIDENCE A. INTRODUCTION B. THE BEST EVIDENCE RULE C. AUTHENTICATING ELECTRONIC DOCUMENTS 1. "Distinctive" Evidence 2. Chain of Custody 3. Electronic Processing of Evidence D. THE HEARSAY RULE IX. APPENDICES APPENDIX A: SAMPLE COMPUTER LANGUAGE FOR SEARCH WARRANTS 1. Tangible Objects a. Justify Seizing the Objects b. List and Describe the Objects (1) Hardware (2) Software (3) Documentation (4) Passwords and Data Security Devices 2. Information: Records, Documents, Data a. Describe the Content of Records, Documents, or other Information b. Describe the Form which the Relevant Information May Take c. Electronic Mail: Searching and Seizing Data from a BBS Server under 18 U.S.C. § 2703 (1) If All the E-Mail is Evidence of Crime (2) If Some of the E-Mail is Evidence of Crime (3) If None of the E-Mail is Evidence of Crime d. Ask Permission to Seize Storage Devices when Off-Site Search is Necessary e. Ask Permission to Seize, Use, and Return Auxiliary Items, as Necessary f. Data Analysis Techniques 3. Stipulation for Returning Original Electronic Data APPENDIX B: GLOSSARY APPENDIX C: FEDERAL EXPERTS FOR COMPUTER CRIME INVESTIGATIONS APPENDIX D: COMPUTER SEARCH AND SEIZURE WORKING GROUP APPENDIX E: STATUTORY POPULAR NAME TABLE APPENDIX F: TABLE OF AUTHORITIES Cases Statutes Federal Rules Federal Regulations Legislative History Reference Materials Go to . . . CCIPS Home || Justice Home Page _________________________________________________________________ Updated page May 9 , 1997 usdoj-jmd/irm/css/mlb _________________________________________________________________ From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 10:48:45 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: On the LAM--Local Area Mixes (fwd) Message-ID: <199801230244.UAA11653@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 21:29:55 -0500 (EST) > From: Ryan Anderson > Subject: Re: On the LAM--Local Area Mixes (fwd) > On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, Jim Choate wrote: > > > Are police considered an extension of the judicial or the executive arm of > > the government? > > In theory, executive. (That way legislative writes laws, executive > decides if they want to enforce them, judicial decides if they're legal or > not.. ) In theory, of course.. First, I knew the answer, I was looking for a lead-in...thanks. Then how, Constitutionaly speaking, do they have get the responsbility to search when it is clearly a judicial responsibility (that is where it is in the Constitution) and in cases such as Evans -v- Gore the Supreme Court has found that the judicial body can't transfer or relinquish it's responsibilities even if it *wants* to? I suspect that, again Constitutionaly speaking, the only system that would pass strict muster would be something similar to the Dutch which prohibit the police from executing a search until *after* review by a legislative representative. This is a rhetorical question, I don't expect you or anyone else to respond to it. Just think about it... ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "John M" Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 13:30:14 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: How to eliminate liability? Message-ID: <19980123052334.20406.qmail@hotmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain This is just an idea I thought I would throw out and see what happens. There has been considerable discussion recently about datahavens, how no one physical location in meatspace is safe, and how there is no single place on earth that a datahaven could exist that would accept all kinds of information. Well, what about spreading the information out? Something simple like doing a matrix rotation on the scrambled data in 8 byte blocks and splice it by bit to split the data up, add ECC (error correction code) to it, and spread it to several servers. This way no one server has all the information necessary to recreate the "offending" information and if one server gets "hit" (killed), the information can still be regenerated from the the information and ECC from the other servers. The bit splitting I'm talking about would go something like this. The data would be set up in clusters of eight bytes and then these eight bytes would be rotated, error correction applied, divided byte by byte to separate queues (for separate destinations), resequenced to include the ECC overhead, and sent on it's merry way. Original encrypted information: Cluster A Cluster B... Byte 1: 01001011 Byte 2: 10101110 Byte 3: 10010110 Byte 4: 10110111 Byte 5: 01011100 Byte 6: 10111011 Byte 7: 10001101 Byte 8: 00110110 After the matrix rotate: Cluster A Cluster B... Byte 1: 01110110 Byte 2: 10001000 Byte 3: 01010101 Byte 4: 00111101 Byte 5: 11001110 Byte 6: 01111011 Byte 7: 11110101 Byte 8: 10010110 Add ECC: Cluster A Cluster B... Byte 1: 01110110 1 Byte 2: 10001000 0 Byte 3: 01010101 0 Byte 4: 00111101 1 Byte 5: 11001110 1 Byte 6: 01111011 0 Byte 7: 11110101 0 Byte 8: 10010110 0 ECC byte: 01000000 0 Divided up: Cluster A ECC-A Cluster B ECC-B Byte 1: 01110110 1 10100011 0 Resequenced into separate queues by byte in cluster: 01110110 11010001 10...... ...and distributed to the servers. These are just my ramblings, I'm not a programmer (or at least I haven't been for a long time). Nor do I claim to know if this form of distribution will escape the legal issues of storing certain data on on servers in specific areas of meatspace (I'm no lawyer (kill the lawyers)). At the very least, it seems that this scheme (or something like it, if this form of ECC is not sufficient) could be used to keep data from being lost if one or more servers gets whacked by armed forces or a nuclear bomb. I'm not even going to think about how this data could be distributed. You guys can do that... Feedback and flames welcome. John estoy@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Black Unicorn Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 11:29:56 +0800 To: coderpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: [Long] How to recover private keys for various Microsoft products In-Reply-To: <88531016604880@cs26.cs.auckland.ac.nz> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980122212421.006de5b0@schloss.li> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 04:29 AM 1/21/98, Peter Gutmann wrote: > How to recover private keys for Microsoft Internet Explorer, Internet > Information Server, Outlook Express, and many others > - or - > Where do your encryption keys want to go today? > > Peter Gutmann, Has anyone done a real world implementation of this exploit? Mr. Gutmann's mscrack.c seems to compile fine, but fails self tests on internal rc2 or sha-1. Just me? Anyone? From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Ryan Anderson Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 10:36:32 +0800 To: Jim Choate Subject: Re: On the LAM--Local Area Mixes (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801221953.NAA09086@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, Jim Choate wrote: > Are police considered an extension of the judicial or the executive arm of > the government? In theory, executive. (That way legislative writes laws, executive decides if they want to enforce them, judicial decides if they're legal or not.. ) In theory, of course.. Ryan Anderson - Alpha Geek PGP fp: 7E 8E C6 54 96 AC D9 57 E4 F8 AE 9C 10 7E 78 C9 print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 12:31:17 +0800 To: Pearson Shane Subject: Re: FW: Symantec Norton, Your Eyes Only. In-Reply-To: <01ISPY42BHTU00B7O0@hmgwy1.isd.tafensw.edu.au> Message-ID: <199801230430.XAA07081@users.invweb.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In <01ISPY42BHTU00B7O0@hmgwy1.isd.tafensw.edu.au>, on 01/23/98 at 02:56 PM, Pearson Shane said: >Anyone? >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Pearson Shane >> Sent: Thursday, January 15, 1998 1:25 PM >> To: 'cypherpunks@toad.com' >> Subject: Symantec Norton, Your Eyes Only. >> >> >> Hey all, >> >> Just wondering what people think of this product? >> Good, bad or ugly? >> >> Is there an international version and a US version? >> >> If so, what limitations are in the international version? >> >> Many thanks... Is source code available for peer review? NO Is it US Commercial software? YES I wouldn't use it to secure an outhouse. No source no trust. - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- Tag-O-Matic: If at first you don't succeed, work for Microsoft. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a-sha1 Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBNMgK6Y9Co1n+aLhhAQF08wP/abLg8ftPY7nuJ1hp8OKi6Ik2lx7A70/3 0GU++TZAmLWJ4XKlgCiujm0Z06P3rSEf+qtiIOTfFKUaN4kvt9JlmkH6h8fmuAJf t48Cq5XQbeYDMJ6HjvGpPraZJd5zmqv54UQuUjswZBONNIMqt+ypy6id/hpe0BY9 mOg9VyMW1cM= =aNiz -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "William H. Geiger III" Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 12:27:41 +0800 To: redgod@usa.net Subject: Re: (eternity) Service denial attacks on Eternity In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980123104841.007a8bf0@iuol.cn.net> Message-ID: <199801230435.XAA07128@users.invweb.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In <3.0.32.19980123104841.007a8bf0@iuol.cn.net>, on 01/23/98 at 10:50 AM, redgod@usa.net said: >FUCK! >WHO REGISTER ME TO THIS MAILING LIST? >CAN YOU TELL ME HOW TO REMOVE MYSELF FROM IT? >I WILL MAD! >OH GOD! TOO MANY EMAIL! Welcome to CyberHell(TM) there is no escape, you are doomed here for all eternity. Kick back, crack open a cold one and enjoy the ride, you ain't going nowhere. - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- Tag-O-Matic: If you want it done right, forget Microsoft. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a-sha1 Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBNMgMKI9Co1n+aLhhAQFRpQP9FEu4wSZ4GT/oDKYS2RkkDT26+RDcWwqz acFwbPjJ9kuOvBswhWuF0zUYdA0BwVDtYXaxTYGIyW//1DWFwL47cC0NtibSGHFU E61R5RzthL06ug8J3h02q2CsoYGAgP4YMF2QnzqBLsQDdlaGUzUt7+Kvplc59MW9 p0q3rdYZdMI= =MM8h -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: John Young Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 11:47:59 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Supplement to DoJ Seizure Guide Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980123034549.006f3954@pop.pipeline.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain There's a long October 1997 supplement to the 1994 DoJ Guide to Search and Seizure of Computers for which Jim Choate posted the TOC just now. It reflects recent campaigns, raids and counterattacks as the battle for supremacy between law and technology intensifies and both sides search and seize each's best and worst: http://jya.com/doj-ssgsup.htm (100K) From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: nobody@nsm.htp.org Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 07:13:59 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: Other c'punk lists? In-Reply-To: <964b42d2ad6119da33ff9f4184394baf@anon.efga.org> Message-ID: <19980122225207.28429.qmail@nsm.htp.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Wed, 21 Jan 1998 10:20:16 -0800 Bill Stewart wrote: \/ ---snip loads of good info--- 00 I heard there is also CYPHERLIST-WATCH-DIGEST-HELP@JOSHUA.RIVERTOWN.NET looks pretty good! From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: nobody@nsm.htp.org Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 07:12:08 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: Other c'punk lists? In-Reply-To: <964b42d2ad6119da33ff9f4184394baf@anon.efga.org> Message-ID: <19980122225315.28507.qmail@nsm.htp.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Wed, 21 Jan 1998 10:20:16 -0800 Bill Stewart wrote: \/ ---snip loads of good info--- 00 I heard there is also CYPHERLIST-WATCH-DIGEST-HELP@JOSHUA.RIVERTOWN.NET looks pretty good! From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 13:39:29 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com Subject: http:--www.usdoj.gov-criminal-cybercrime- Message-ID: <199801230455.WAA12772@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Computer Crime and Intellectual Property Section (CCIPS) 202-514-1026 Fax 202-514-6113 The CCIPS is responsible for implementing the Justice Department's Computer Crime Initiative, a comprehensive program designed to address the growing global computer crime problem. Section attorneys are actively working with other government officials (e.g., the FBI, Department of Defense, NASA) the private sector (including hardware and software vendors and telecommunications companies), academic institutions, and foreign representatives to develop a global response to cyberattacks. These attorneys, who are responsible for resolving unique issues raised by emerging computer and telecommunications technologies, litigate cases, provide litigation support to other prosecutors, train federal law enforcement personnel, comment upon and propose legislation, and coordinate international efforts to combat computer crime. _________________________________________________________________ Information is available via this web site about the following topics: I. COMPUTER FRAUD AND ABUSE 1. The National Information Infrastructure Protection Act of 1996 II. SEARCHING AND SEIZING COMPUTERS 1. Federal Guidelines for Searching and Seizing Computers 2. Supplement to Federal Guidelines for Searching and Seizing Computers III. PROTECTING INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY RIGHTS : Copyrights, Trademarks and Trade Secrets 1. Federal Guidelines for Prosecution of Violations of Intellectual Property Rights 2. Operation "Counter Copy" 3. "No Electronic Theft ('NET') Act" 4. The Economic Espionage Act IV. ENCRYPTION AND COMPUTER CRIME 1. Letter from Attorney General Janet Reno and others to Members of Congress regarding law enforcement's concerns related to encryption 2. Testimony of Deputy Assistant Attorney General Robert S. Litt, Before the Subcommittee on Telecommunications, Trade and Consumer Protection, of the House Commerce Committee on September 4, 1997 V. INTERNATIONAL ASPECTS OF COMPUTER CRIME 1. Attorney General Janet Reno's Speech to Senior Experts Representing the G-7 on January 21, 1997 2. Council of Europe Recommendation 95(13) VI. LAW ENFORCEMENT COORDINATION FOR HIGH-TECH CRIMES 1. Computer-Telecommunications Coordinator ("CTC") Program VII. PRIVACY ISSUES IN THE HIGH-TECH CONTEXT 1. Law Enforcement Concerns Related to Computerized Data Bases Enforcing the Criminal Wiretap Statute Other Relevant Links _________________________________________________________________ I. COMPUTER FRAUD AND ABUSE _________________________________________________________________ A. The National Information Infrascructure Protection Act of 1996 In October 1996, the National Information Infrastructure Protection Act of 1996 was enacted as part of Public Law 104-294. It amended the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act, which is codified at 18 U.S.C. § 1030. Below you will find links to the amended version of 18 U.S.C. § 1030, as well as a legislative analysis, prepared by attorneys from the Computer Crime and Intellectual Property Section. * Legislative Analysis * 18 U.S.C. §1030 Amended B. Other Relevant Web Sites _________________________________________________________________ II. SEARCHING AND SEIZING COMPUTERS _________________________________________________________________ A. Federal Guidelines for Searching and Seizing Computers The process of Searching and Seizing Computers raises unique issues for law enforcement personnel. The Federal Guidelines for searching and seizing computers illustrate some of the ways in which search a computer is different from searching a desk, a file cabinet, or an automobile. * Introductory Remarks * FEDERAL GUIDELINES - Table of Contents * Download the Zipped WordPerfect file [138K]. B. Supplement to Federal Guidelines for Searching and Seizing Computers In October 1997, the Computer Crime and Intellectual Property Section published a Supplement to Federal Guidelines for Searching and Seizing Computers. This Supplement is intended to update the Federal Guidelines for Searching and Seizing Computers that had been published in July 1994. The Supplement describes relevant federal cases decided since July 1994 as well as a number of additional earlier decisions. The Supplement also describes relevant state cases, which had not been incorporated in the original Guidelines. The cases in this Supplement are organized according to the sections in the Guidelines. Supplement to Federal Guidelines for Searching and Seizing Computers Preface to Supplement to Federal Guidelines for Searching and Seizing Computers Supplement to Federal Guidelines for Searching and Seizing Computers - Table of Contents Download the Zipped WordPerfect 6.1 file [231k] C. Other Relevant Web Sites _________________________________________________________________ III. PROTECTING INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY RIGHTS : Copyrights, Trademarks and Trade Secrets _________________________________________________________________ A. Federal Guidelines for Prosecution of Violations of Intellectual Property Rights (Copyrights, Trademarks and Trade Secrets) The importance of the protection of intellectual property to the economic well-being and security of the United States cannot be overestimated. The Computer Crime and Intellectual Property Section wrote the attached manual to assist law enforcement in the investigation and prosecution of violations of federal criminal copyright, trademark, and trade secret laws. Section I of the manual contains an overview of the protection of intellectual property, and discusses the basic scope of copyright, trademark, and trade secret and patent law. Section II focuses on intellectual property entitled to copyright protection and Section III describes the applicability of various federal criminal statutes to copyright infringement. Section IV addresses the prosecution for trafficking in counterfeit goods under 18 U.S.C. § 2320. Section V discusses the prosecution of trade secret thefts and analyzes the recently enacted Economic Espionage Act of 1996. Finally, Section VI contains a list of contact persons, model indictments, search warrant affidavits, jury instructions, state criminal trade secret statutes, and the legislative history of the Copyright Felony Act and the Economic Espionage Act of 1996. * Table of Contents * Download the Manual Zipped WordPerfect file [###K]. B. Operation "Counter Copy" In early May, the Department of Justice and the Federal Bureau of Investigation released the first results of a nationwide law enforcement effort to crack down on trademark and copyright fraud, which is estimated to cost American businesses millions of dollars each year and cheat unsuspecting consumers who purchase counterfeit products. As a result of the joint effort, called Operation "Counter Copy," 35 indictments were returned since the beginning of April for copyright or trademark infringement. More information about Operation Counter Copy, including a press release and brief summaries of the cases, are available via the links below. * Summaries of Cases * FBI page - Counter Copy Cases * Press Release " C. No Electronic Theft ('NET') Act" Computers are changing the way that copyrighted goods are being illegally copied and distributed, creating new challenges for copyright owners and for law enforcement. * The Statement of Kevin V. DiGregrory, Deputy Assistant Attorney General of the Criminal Division before the Subcommittee on Courts and Intellectual Property of the House Committee on the Judiciary, presented September 11, 1997, describes how law enforcement is addressing this challenge and expresses the Department's support for the goals of H.R. 2265, The "No Electronic Theft ('NET') Act." A one page Summary of Statement is also available. D. The Economic Espionage Act The Computer Crime and Intellectual Property Section is also charged with evaluating all requests for approval of charges under the Economic Espionage Act and making a recommendation regarding the approval of such requests to the Attorney General, Deputy Attorney General, or Assistant Attorney General. In addition, the Section also prosecutes certain Economic Espionage cases directly. Four Pillars Case One well-publicized case currently being prosecuted by the Section involves the alleged theft of trade secrets by the Four Pillars Enterprise Company, LTD, of Taiwan from an American corporation. Press releases relating to that case can be found below. * Press Release: Taiwanese businessman and daughter arrested on industrial espionage charges (September 5, 1997) Press Release: Taiwanese firm, its President and his daughter indicted in industrial espionage case; Third individual charged in Ohio case (October 1, 1997) E. Other Relevant Web Sites _________________________________________________________________ IV. ENCRYPTION AND COMPUTER CRIME _________________________________________________________________ The nation's policy on encryption must carefully balance important competing interests. The Department of Justice has a vital stake in the country's encryption policy because encryption may be used not only to protect lawful data against unauthorized intruders, it may also be used to conceal illegitimate materials from law enforcement. While we support the spread of strong encryption, we believe that the widespread dissemination of unbreakable encryption without any accommodation for law enforcement access is a serious threat to public safety and to the integrity of America's commercial infrastructure. Our goal is to encourage the use of strong encryption to protect privacy and commerce, but in a way that preserves (without extending) law enforcement's ability to protect public safety and national security. Accordingly, the Administration has promoted the manufacture and use of key recovery products, aided the development of a global key management infrastructure ("KMI"), and liberalized United States restrictions on the export of robust cryptographic products. We anticipate that market forces will make key recovery products a de facto industry standard and thus preserve the balance of privacy and public safety that our Constitution embodies. A. Letter from Attorney General Janet Reno and others to Members of Congress regarding law enforcement's concerns related to encryption On July 18, 1997, Attorney General Janet Reno and others sent a letter to Members of Congress outlining law enforcement's concerns about the public safety and national security threats posed by unbridled availability of strong encryption. It urged legislators to support a balanced approach that supports commercial and privacy interest while maintaining law enforcement's ability to investigate and prosecute serious crime. This letter was co-signed by: * Louis Freeh, Director, Federal Bureau of Investigation * Barry McCaffrey, Director, Office of National Drug Control Policy * Thomas A. Constantine, Director, Drug Enforcement Administration, * Lewis C. Merletti, Director, United States Secret Service * Raymond W. Kelly, Undersecretary for Enforcement, U.S. Department of Treasury * George J. Weise, Commissioner, United States Customs Service * John W. Magaw, Director, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms An image of the letter, as signed, as well as the text of the letter is available via the links below: * Image of letter to Congress regarding encryption as signed Text of letter to Congress regarding encryption as signed (WordPerfect) B. Testimony of Robert S. Litt, Deputy Assistant Attorney General, before the Subcommittee on Telecommunications, Trade and Consumer Protection, of the House Commerce Committee, on September 4, 1997 Robert S. Litt, Deputy Assistant Attorney General, Criminal Division, Department of Justice, testified before the Subcommittee on Telecommunications, Trade and Consumer Protection, of the House Commerce Committee, on September 4, 1997. His testimony addressed encryption and one of the bills proposing to modify the United States' regulation of cryptography, H.R. 695. His tesimony, and a summary of his testimony, is available via the link below. * Summary of Robert Litt's testimony before the Subcommittee on Telecommunications, Trade and Consumer Protection, of the House Commerce Committee, on September 4, 1997 Robert Litt's testimony before the Subcommittee on Telecommunications, Trade and Consumer Protection, of the House Commerce Committee, on September 4, 1997 C. Other Relevant Web Sites _________________________________________________________________ V. INTERNATIONAL ASPECTS OF COMPUTER CRIME _________________________________________________________________ With the explosive growth of the Internet worldwide, computer crimes increasingly are prone to have international dimensions. Some of the challenges faced by law enforcement on the international front include: harmonization of countries' criminal laws; locating and identifying perpetrators across borders; and securing electronic evidence of their crimes so that they may be brought to justice. Complex jurisdictional issues arise at each step. The Department of Justice is working with foreign governments through many channels to address global threats related to computer crime. A. Attorney General Janet Reno's speech to Senior Experts representing the G-7 on January 21, 1997 On January 21, 1997, Attorney General Janet Reno spoke to Senior Experts representing the G-7 group of leading industrialized nations (now, with the inclusion of Russia, known as The Eight). The Attorney General's speech addressed the challenges presented to law enforcement by hightech and computer criminals, and she suggested a number ways in which the United States and its allies can respond to this global threat. Her speech is available via the link below. * Janet Reno's speech to Senior Experts representing the G-7 on January 21, 1997 B. Council of Europe Recommendation 95(13) In September 1995, the Council of Europe adopted eighteen (18) recommendations relating to problems of criminal procedural law connected with information technology. These recommendations are available via the link below. * Council of Europe Recommendation 95(13) relating to problems of criminal procedural law connected with information technology, Sept. 1995 C. Other Relevant Web Sites _________________________________________________________________ VI. LAW ENFORCEMENT COORDINATION FOR HIGH-TECH CRIMES _________________________________________________________________ A. Computer-Telecommunications Coordinator ("CTC") Program Coordination among prosecutors in high-tech crime cases has improved dramatically because of the implementation, since January 1995, of the "Computer-Telecommunications Coordinator" ("CTC") program. Under the CTC program, each United States Attorney's Office, as well as a few other Department entities, has designated at least one Assistant U.S. Attorney to serve as a CTC, with a few distinct areas of responsibility. To reach a CTC, contact the Computer Crime and Intellectual Property Section, or the U.S. Attorney's office in a particular district. CTC responsibilities are outlined below. * CTC responsibilities B. Other Relevant Web Sites _________________________________________________________________ VII. PRIVACY ISSUES IN THE HIGH-TECH CONTEXT _________________________________________________________________ A. Law Enforcement Concerns Related to Computerized Data Bases The Computer Crime and Intellectual Property Section of the Department of Justice submitted comments in response to the request of the Federal Trade Commission ("FTC") for comments on its workshop on Consumer Information Privacy and its Data Base Study. The Department is deeply concerned about the safety and security of American citizens. The Department is vigilant to take appropriate measures to guard their privacy while using all the resources at its disposal, including information resources, to investigate and prosecute violations of the federal criminal law. The comments are available via the link below: * CCIPS comments as submitted to the FTC workshop on Consumer Information Privacy and Data Base Study B. Enforcing the Criminal Wiretap Statute The Computer Crime and Intellectual Property Section helps to protect the privacy of Americans by enforcing the criminal wiretap statute, 18 U.S.C.§ 2511. One well-publicized interception involved a conference call in which the Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich participated. The couple that intercepted the call pleaded guilty on April 25, 1997, as is described in the press release below. * Press release regarding guilty plea for interception of a communication C. Other Relevant Web Sites Go to . . . Criminal Home Pages || Justice Department Home Pages _________________________________________________________________ Updated page December 8, 1997 usdoj-jmd/irm/css/jea _________________________________________________________________ From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jonathan Wienke Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 15:23:42 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Sacremento Sheriff's deputies get M-16's Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980122230006.006bc0dc@popd.netcruiser> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On the news tonight, channel 3 and 31 both featured stories about Sacramento sheriff deputy supervisors getting "semi-automatic AR-15" rifles. It was hilarious. Channel 3 showed a close-up of the receiver, which was clearly marked with "M16A1". I got this funny feeling that them thar AR-15's will rock 'n roll if the deputy supervisor finds himself in a North Hollywood style situation...can you say Disinformation, boys and girls? -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Business Security 5.5 iQA/AwUBNMg/88JF0kXqpw3MEQIAigCg/bXFrIS02GRZW65e10uZrh8QGSEAoLv2 2xmcXhKUBvrWN1Lm7CtE1PhQ =P5v5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Jonathan Wienke PGP Key Fingerprints: 7484 2FB7 7588 ACD1 3A8F 778A 7407 2928 3312 6597 8258 9A9E D9FA 4878 C245 D245 EAA7 0DCC "If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains set lightly upon you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." -- Samuel Adams "Stupidity is the one arena of of human achievement where most people fulfill their potential." -- Jonathan Wienke Never sign a contract that contains the phrase "first-born child." When the government fears the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny. Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't. RSA export-o-matic: print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 07:09:23 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: Netscape 5 will be GPL'ed In-Reply-To: <199801230129.BAA02808@fountainhead.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain root wrote on 1998-01-23 01:29 UTC: > [Press Releases] > http://www.netscape.com/newsref/pr/newsrelease558.html?cp=nws01flh1 > > NETSCAPE ANNOUNCES PLANS TO MAKE NEXT-GENERATION COMMUNICATOR SOURCE CODE > AVAILABLE FREE ON THE NET Excellent! Finally mainstream software companies start to understand that security critical software has to be provided to the customer in full compilable source code to allow independent security evaluation. No formal CC/ITSEC evaluation process can beat the scrutiny of the Internet crowd. I wonder how long we have to wait for the day on which we can download the latest GPL'ed Windows NT version source code from Microsoft's web server ... Markus -- Markus G. Kuhn, Security Group, Computer Lab, Cambridge University, UK email: mkuhn at acm.org, home page: From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "William H. Geiger III" Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 13:12:31 +0800 To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com Subject: Re: 10th FIRST Message-ID: <199801230522.AAA07920@users.invweb.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain ------------------------------------------------------------------------- The following message is forwarded to you by "William H. Geiger III" (listed as the From user of this message). The original sender (see the header, below) was Vicente Garcia and has been set as the "Reply-To" field of this message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >From: Vicente Garcia >Newsgroups: comp.security.pgp.resources >Subject: 10th FIRST >Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 18:38:39 -0600 >Organization: ITESM Campus Monterrey . DINF-DTCI >Lines: 371 >Message-ID: <34C5438D.F8F99029@campus.mty.itesm.mx> >NNTP-Posting-Host: vangelis.mty.itesm.mx >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >X-Trace: news.mty.itesm.mx 885343029 6704 (None) 131.178.17.111 >X-Complaints-To: news@news.mty.itesm.mx >X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) >X-Priority: 3 (Normal) >Path: edison.dotstar.net!pull-feed.internetmci.com!opus.ies-energy.com!news.cs.utwente.nl!cosy.sbg.ac.at!wuff.mayn.de!Cabal.CESspool!bofh.vszbr.cz!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cs.utexas.edu!news.uh.edu!news.mty.itesm.mx!not-for-mail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- ************************************************************* * * * Forum of Incident Response and Security Teams (FIRST) * * * * Tenth Annual Computer Security Incident Handling Workshop * * * * Monterrey, Mexico * * * * Monday 22-Jun-1998 to Friday 26-Jun-1998 (inclusive) * * * ************************************************************* C A L L F O R P A P E R S Submission Deadline: January 15, 1998 "The challenges of incident handling in a diverse world" The Forum of Incident Response and Security Teams (FIRST) was formed in November 1990 to address the problem of an ever increasing number of computer and network security related incidents, affecting thousands of systems around the world. The forum is made up of government, private and academic Computer Security Incident Response Teams from around the world. Its primary goal is to coordinate the efforts of its members in order to increase both their individual and collective effectiveness. The annual Incident Handling Workshop is part of FIRST's ongoing educational program, which is aimed at increasing the general awareness of security issues and improving expertise when handling computer security incidents. Specific security problems can affect many individuals and organizations around the world, possibly involving many different technological environments. Each of the parties involved must tailor its actions to the context in which the problem is experienced. Factors which must be taken into account include: * Cultural: The way in which a problem is tackled can be highly influenced by the historical development of the community in question. Examples are the ability for open communication about problems or values regarding privacy. * Professional: Today the Internet is open to the masses. The ease of communication, the advent of electronic commerce, and the availability of information, makes it a playground and a library for the masses. It is also a key business tool which professionals depend upon. * Political: Political decisions of individual countries concerning key areas of computer security, e.g. restrictions in the use and export of cryptological technology, may change the way that security problems must be approached. Legalities pertaining to diverse use of computer systems vary widely between countries. * Technological: Different technologies, covering a wide spectrum that includes mainframes, unix workstations, personal computers and network computers are connected to the same network simultaneously. Who should attend? __________________ All those responsible for any aspect of computer security management will benefit from attending this workshop. This includes both members and non-members of FIRST, law enforcement officials, computer security incident response teams, as well as consultants, contractors, vendors and individuals involved in the use, maintenance or planning of computer systems. Why attend? ___________ The character of the Internet is changing rapidly. Not only has the commercial community discovered new possibilities offered by "direct" marketing and advertisement. Governmental and non-academic organizations have also turned their attentions to the potential of the Internet. Incident Handling must adapt to the changing user base of the Internet. In addition to the opportunity for those involved in computer security to get together and discuss all aspects of the subject, the workshop will provide the opportunity to listen to experts in the fields of computer security incident response and vulnerability analysis. They will share their valuable expertise by speaking about their experience in dealing successfully with the coordination of incidents traversing international boundaries, highlighting particular problems where appropriate. There is no other workshop dedicated to this topic in the world. Important Dates: ________________ Abstract/Proposals Due: January 15, 1998 Authors Notified: February 10, 1998 Full Materials for Proceedings Due: April 1, 1998 Format of the workshop: _______________________ The first day is allocated for parallel tutorial style presentations. The remaining four days will consist of conference paper and workshop style presentations, as well as FIRST business sessions. One evening is allocated for participants to hold events devoted to subjects of particular interest ("birds of a feather" sessions). All events will be selected to further the objectives of FIRST and its members. They may involve topics such as computer security incident handling, team and incident response coordination, tools, international issues, or work in progress. A list of example topics can be found at the end of this announcement. Contributions should follow the following guidelines: Tutorials: Half or full day tutorial proposals will be considered. Papers: Written papers may be as long as desired, but presentations must be limited to 30 minutes. Workshop: These informal sessions should either follow a more "hands-on" approach or provide for a high degree of audience participation. They should be tailored to address specific issues and should be from 60 to 90 minutes in duration. Panel Sessions on a particular topic are acceptable. Submission information: _______________________ Submissions should include an abstract, proposed length and single page of notes describing the content and style of the presentation. Special audio/visual requirements (other than one microphone and one overhead projector) should be described. Panel session proposals should include a list of panelists who have agreed to participate. Submissions should be sent to the contact address given at the end of this document. The preferred submission mechanism is via electronic mail in ASCII, HTML or PostScript formats. Submissions via Facsimile transmission or the postal service will, however, be accepted. Submissions must be received by the January 15, 1998. Submissions received after this date may not be considered for inclusion in the program. Please use the appended form for your submissions. Authors will be notified by the February 10, 1998 of the status of their presentation (accepted/rejected). The final version of the material used for the presentation (overheads, papers, slides) must be delivered to the organizers by the April 1, 1998 for inclusion in the proceedings. Email: ______ Please use the email address first-pc98@first.org for submissions or questions regarding the call for papers. WWW: ____ The Workshop WWW page is accessible from the FIRST webserver: http://www.first.org/workshops/1998/ Program Committee: __________________ Wolfgang Ley, DFN-CERT, Germany (Program Chair) Brian Dunphy, ASSIST, USA Eric A. Fisch, Trident Data Systems, USA Eric Halil, AUSCERT, Australia Stephen Hansen, Stanford University, USA Ahmet Koltuksuz, IZMIR Inst. of Technology, Turkey Sherman O. Loges, Boeing, USA Paul Mauvais, CIAC, USA Fran Nielsen, NIST, USA Steve Romig, Ohio State, USA Roger Safian, Northwestern University, USA Miguel J. Sanchez, SGI, USA Sandy Sparks, CIAC, USA Don Stikvoort, CERT-NL, Netherlands Wietse Venema, TU Eindhoven, Netherlands Mark Zajicek, CERT Coordination Center, USA Conference Location: ____________________ Monterrey, Mexico Dates: _____ Mon June 22, 1998 - tutorials (parallel streams) Tue June 23, 1998 to Fri June 26, 1998 (workshop). Conference Host: ________________ Instituto Tecnologico y de Estudios Superiores de Monterrey (ITESM), Mexican CERT (MxCERT). The workshop is sponsored by First.Org Inc. Contact Information: ____________________ Electronic Mail: first-pc98@first.org Postal Address: Attn: Wolfgang Ley DFN-CERT Univ. of Hamburg Vogt-Koelln-Str. 30 22527 Hamburg Germany Facsimile: +49 40 5494 2241 Subject: FIRST 1998 Workshop Example Topics (other topics may be considered): Dealing with the increasing diversity in all areas International Legal Issues Legal and Administrative Issues in Incident Handling Coordinating International Incidents Incident Handling and the Internet Security on Large Networks other than the Internet How to Protect an Incident Response Team Site Interviewing/Hiring Incident Response Team Staff Outsourcing an Incident Response Team Vulnerability/Advisory Processes New Tools for Incident Handling Statistic Tools Informational Resources Programming Securely Preventing Incidents Intrusion/Vulnerability Detection Tools System/Network Monitoring Tools The Changing Nature of the "hack" Internet Service Providers and Security Vendor Session Collecting Evidence =========================================================================== ABSTRACT / PROPOSAL SUBMISSION SHEET FIRST 1998 Name __________________________________________________________ Address __________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________ Phone ____________________ Fax _______________________ E-mail ____________________ URL _______________________ Title of Presentation ____________________________________________ Presentation Type ( please tick one ) ( ) Paper ( ) Half-day Tutorial ( ) Workshop ( ) Full-day Tutorial ( ) Panel Presentation Length (in minutes) ______ Presentation Media Requirement (other than one overhead projector and a microphone): _____________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________________ Abstract ( 75-100 words ) _____________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________________ FIRST is granted an non exclusive right to copy and redistribute conference material including the submissions of the author(s). This includes possible distribution on a conference CD and/or the FIRST website. Brief Biography ( 50-75 words ) _____________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________________________ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2i iQCVAwUBNHit6QQmfXmOCknRAQFQQQP6Ao1CYieDoeHK1BFqypC6QjVKXeNLEjY+ jq2HgNBSvxuysHH1fNnqNxMRJSHWyFw+yEJJk3TFXL6tyIOIojbfnzH88crtdMah yzMYZL+APdTf3JppF8ipeIO8HygwMVt/BuRtW7JUCPvN5b7Vj1jDfc8pqOE786np eAExY1mgrSk= =LqxA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -------------------------------------------------------------------- MR/2 PGP Signature Check 22 Jan 1998 22:58:34 -------------------------------------------------------------------- Key matching expected Key ID 8E0A49D1 not found in file 'pubring.pgp'. WARNING: Can't find the right public key-- can't check signature integrity. -------------------------------------------------------------------- MR/2 PGP Signature Check [Secondary Keyring] 22 Jan 1998 22:58:34 -------------------------------------------------------------------- WARNING: Bad signature, doesn't match file contents! Bad signature from user "Wolfgang Ley, DFN-CERT ". Signature made 1997/11/23 22:28 GMT using 1024-bit key, key ID 8E0A49D1 WARNING: Because this public key is not certified with a trusted signature, it is not known with high confidence that this public key actually belongs to: "Wolfgang Ley, DFN-CERT ". PGPRC=1 PGPRC2=1 ----------------------------------------------------- -- End of forwarded message ----------------------------------------------------- -- --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html --------------------------------------------------------------- Tag-O-Matic: The sad thing about Windows bashing is it's all true. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Wei Dai Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 15:23:41 +0800 To: Brad Threatt Subject: Re: Why no "Banner Ad Eaters"? In-Reply-To: <34c704c2.971366@128.2.84.191> Message-ID: <19980122231624.60180@eskimo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Thu, Jan 22, 1998 at 03:19:11PM -0800, Brad Threatt wrote: > There are several examples people have mentioned here: > Roxen, junkbuster, etc. > > I happen to use one called WebFilter, a patched CERN httpd > (http://math-www.uni-paderborn.de/~axel/NoShit) which allows > program filtering based on URL regexp matching. In addition to all of the ad blocking software mentioned on that page, If you're running the Microsoft Proxy Server, I wrote an ISAPI filter DLL plugin that can be used for blocking ads based URL regexp matching. See http://www.eskimo.com/~weidai. > Of course, now that Netscape's releasing their source code, what > would *really* help the practice take off would be integration of > one of these systems into Netscape. > > On the downside, this is sure to trigger an ad Arms Race, with content > providers melding together content and ads. Right now, I can view the > web with almost no ads, but if a million people are filtering ads off a > site, you can bet there will be countermeasures, and lots of them. It's > difficult to imagine the filters winning, without more advanced support > (for example, cropping images to remove ads, and collaborative filtering > pools). But if a million people are using the system, and 0.01% are > coders committed to making it work, well, you can do a lot with 100 > brains. It seems to me that blocking ads is no different from blocking porn. All of the technology being developed for the latter purpose (PICS for example) will eventually be used for the former. Filtering technology in general will advance as the net becomes more diverse and people seek to protect themselves from unwelcome information. I think the long-term outlook for content providers is pretty bleak. How do you make a profit when your copyrights are not enforceable and your ads are easily filtered? From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Secret Squirrel Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 07:43:40 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Cybersitter censors code Message-ID: <19a5852c151be5545b7c5afb0cdbbcbb@squirrel> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >>Turns out, someone had inadvertly installed this piece of garbage >>called CyberSitter, which purports to protect you from nasty internet >>content. Turns out that it does this by patching the TCP drivers and >>watching the data flow over EVERY TCP STREAM. Can you spot the offense >>word in my example? It's "NUDE". Seems that cybersitter doesn't care if >>there are other characters in between. So it blanks out "nu */ #de" >>without blanking out the punctuation and line breaks. Very strange and >>stupid. Find out who it is and fire his ass for sabotage of the company computer systems. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 13:48:14 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: Killing An Arab (fwd) Message-ID: <199801230544.XAA13132@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Hi David, Forwarded message: > Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 00:38:08 -0500 > From: David Miller > Subject: Re: Killing An Arab > > 1 : a theory that there are no universal essences in reality and that > > the mind can frame > > no single concept or image corresponding to any universal or general > > term > > 2 : the theory that only individuals and no abstract entities (as > > essences, classes, or > > propositions) exist -- compare ESSENTIALISM, REALISM Both of these are what they purport to prohibit. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Bill Stewart Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 15:59:39 +0800 To: Wei Dai Subject: Re: Why no "Banner Ad Eaters"? In-Reply-To: <34C7D3EF.632F@ehq.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980122235319.0088ca40@popd.ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 11:16 PM 1/22/98 -0800, Wei Dai wrote: >It seems to me that blocking ads is no different from blocking porn. All >of the technology being developed for the latter purpose (PICS for >example) will eventually be used for the former. With both PICS ratings for web pages and the new TV ratings, somehow the ratings only apply to the program and not the ads. After all, if each TV commercial had to be separately rated, people would rapidly develop equipment to autoblock commercials, and that just wouldn't do. >I think the long-term outlook for content providers is pretty bleak. How >do you make a profit when your copyrights are not enforceable and your ads >are easily filtered? Unfortunately, you're probably right, though providers and advertisers who really want their messages to get through will find ways to do it. The current banners are nice, friendly implementations in that they're easy to identify and block; newer ones will just be sneakier. They'll come from the same machine as the real page, or they'll be embedded in the background images, or the servers will insist on not shipping you the pages you want until you've downloaded the banner (e.g. by putting some of the interesting material into images.) Sure, it requires some server rewriting, but there's money in it. Alternatively, they may go to clickthrough payment models - the web page owner only gets paid when people click on the ad, though perhaps at a higher rate than current "impressions". Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Bill Stewart Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 16:15:35 +0800 To: "John M" Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980123000851.00839a40@popd.ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 09:23 PM 1/22/98 PST, John M wrote: >There has been considerable discussion recently about datahavens, how no >one physical location in meatspace is safe, and how there is no single >place on earth that a datahaven could exist that would accept all kinds >of information. >Well, what about spreading the information out? Something simple like > [...] and spread it to several servers. This way no one server has all >the information necessary to recreate the "offending" information and if >one server gets "hit" (killed), the information can still be regenerated >from the the information and ECC from the other servers. Secret Sharing is easy, and there are a number of implementations with useful properties like being able to read the original from K of N parts.* The problem is how to implement it in ways that protect the server operators as well as the information providers. For instance, the author's client software can do the split and send the shares too different servers, and make sure the readers know how to find the pieces; this can even be automated enough to make it convenient. This not only makes it hard for the Bad Guys to find the pieces, it makes it impossible for the data haven provider to know what's being stored there, and even if the site is siezed it doesn't give up the critical information. This is a Good Thing, and we've discussed it. On the other hand, what happens if a Bad Guy wants to entrap the operator, by planting child pornography, pirated software, and TOP SECRET data in the data haven, advertising on Usenet and then calling the cops. Anybody, including the cops, can retrieve the contraband and bust them. So what are the alternatives, besides obviously encrypting your disks so it's harder to determine what's on them besides the plant, and the ever popular "don't let them find your physical location"? Perhaps the data haven can do the split and farm the data out to other data havens - but how do they know the data they're receiving is really a slice of contraband data instead of Yet Another Plant? It gets pretty convoluted. [* You can read about secret sharing in Schneier. ] Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Bill Stewart Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 17:03:37 +0800 To: Jim Choate Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980123003758.0089c100@popd.ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 08:44 PM 1/22/98 -0600, Jim Choate wrote: >> > Are police considered an extension of the judicial or the executive arm of >> > the government? >> In theory, executive. (That way legislative writes laws, executive >> decides if they want to enforce them, judicial decides if they're legal or >> not.. ) In theory, of course.. [..] >Then how, Constitutionaly speaking, do they have get the responsbility to >search when it is clearly a judicial responsibility (that is where it is >in the Constitution) Going and doing stuff is an Executive Branch function; enforcing laws is an Executive Branch function. Issuing the warrant allowing the police to go search or arrest someone is a judicial function, and is generally done on request by the police or prosecutors. In the case of early-60s New York, of course, it simply wasn't bothered with. :-) >and in cases such as Evans -v- Gore the Supreme Court >has found that the judicial body can't transfer or relinquish it's >responsibilities even if it *wants* to? I'm not familiar with the case - got a pointer? Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Robert Hettinga Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 13:44:04 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Financial Cryptography 1998 Press Announcement Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Please pass this along to any member of the press you may know. Or anyone else you can think of. :-). Thanks, Robert Hettinga ----- For Immediate Release Press Contacts: Christopher D. Gerath Robert Hettinga Gerath & Associates, Inc. International Financial Cryptography Association (978) 264-4707 rah@shipwright.com chris@gerath.com Financial Cryptography '98 Conference & Exhibition to Highlight FC Technology and Use Second Annual Event is World's Leading FC Showcase Boston, MA, January 22, 1998 - The International Financial Cryptography Association (IFCA), today announced the 1998 Financial Cryptography Conference and Exhibition (FC98), to be held on February 23-27, 1998 on the island of Anguilla in the British West Indies. The FC98 Conference The International Conference on Financial Cryptography is the world's first and only peer-reviewed conference on financial cryptography. Every year, the newest research is presented in internet financial transfers, transaction clearing and network-based financial instruments. This year, invited speakers and panel participants include such industry experts as Dr. David Chaum, holder of several very basic financial cryptography patents and founder of DigiCash Corporation, and Dr. Ron Rivest, who invented the first practical public key cryptography system and founder of RSA Data Security, Inc. However, the primary focus of the Conference will be the results of financial cryptography research from experts at AT&T Labs, Bell Laboratories/Lucent, CyberCash, France Telecom, JavaSoft, Kyushu University, IBM T.J. Watson Research Center, Microsoft, MIT, Princeton University, Queensland University, University of Southern California, The US Naval Research Laboratory, Valicert, Verisign and others. Last year's Conference, FC97, was the subject of an article in the July, 1997 issue of Wired Magazine, an NHK-Japan television program, and was covered by the Financial Times, the New York Times, and Institutional Investor. Financial cryptography was also the cover story of the Setember 8, 1997 issue of Forbes Magazine. "Everyone knows business on the Internet is growing, but financial cryptography and the vanishing cost of individual electronic transactions will create entirely new forms of business," said Robert Hettinga, IFCA founder and FC98 General Chairman. "Simple examples include the possible replacement of many forms of book-entry financial settlement with digital bearer versions, and, of course, cash settled electronic auctions for anything you can send down a wire," Hettinga continued. The FC98 Conference Proceedings will be available later in the year from Springer Verlag as part of the Lecture Notes in Computer Science series. See the selection of papers for the FC98 conference at . The FC98 Exhibition The FC98 Exhibition, which runs concurrently with the Conference, serves as a showcase for the newest financial cryptography products. The presentations, demonstrations, and panels of FC98 Exhibition Program will explain what kinds of financial cryptography services and implementations are available in the market today, while the Exhibition floor will have booths from many of the top companies using and selling financial cryptography today. The FC98 Workshop for IT professionals and Senior Managers The Financial Cryptography '98 Conference and Exhibition will be followed by the FC98 Workshop for Senior Managers and IS Professionals, which will be held the week following the Conference and Exhibition, from March 2-6, 1998, at the same location. The intensive 40-hour FC98 Workshop gives senior managers and IT professionals an understanding of the fundamentals of strong cryptography as applied to financial operations on public networks, along with hands-on instruction in the integration and implementation of these technologies. FC98's Affiliations and Sponsorship Financial Cryptography '98 is held in cooperation with the International Association for Cryptologic Research. Sponsoring organizations include RSA Data Security Inc., ; C2NET, Inc., ; Hansa Bank & Trust Company Limited, Anguilla, ; Sicherheit und Privat- International Bank; Offshore Information Services, ; and Shipwright Development Corporation, . The FC98 Organizing Committee consists of: Vincent Cate and Robert Hettinga, General Chairs; Rafael Hirschfeld, Conference Chair; Matthew Franklin, Conference Co-Chair; Ian Goldberg, Workshop Leader; Lynwood Bell, Exhibition Steering Committee Chair; and Blanc Weber, Exhibits and Sponsorship Manager. Registration and Travel Registration for FC98 can be done directly on the Internet at , by calling (264) 497-3255, faxing (264) 497-2756, email with PGP encryption to or physically mailing the registration form to 949 Old Ta, The Valley, Anguilla, BWI. Admission to the Exhibition and Conference requires advance payment of the $1,000 admission fee. If you're interested in Exhibition space or becoming an event sponsor, please email Blanc Weber, . Air travel to Anguilla is typically done through San Juan or St. Martin. There are several non-stop flights a day from various European and US locations. Connection through to Anguilla can be made through American Eagle, through LIAT, or in the case of St. Martin, with a short ferry ride to Anguilla. Consult a travel agent for details or visit our web page at . ### Service marks, trademarks or registered trademarks are property of their respective owners. ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/ Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Rabid Wombat Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 04:13:07 +0800 To: sales&marketingproz@diku.dk Subject: Re: Certification Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain You seem to have spammed the wrong mailing list. Most of us do not want to become certified sales / marketing droids, although we occaisonally keep them around the office as pets. On Wed, 21 Jan 1998 sales&marketingproz@diku.dk wrote: > > > "From: Steve Camfield, SME Board of Directors > > > It is my privilege to formally invite you to become certified in sales or marketing > management. Certification sends a clear message to your customers and colleagues > that you are a true professional and have surpassed the highest standards of education, > experience, and knowledge. > > For your convenience, I have placed full certification details and answers to questions > you may have at www.selling.org (see Certification). > > > ------------------------- > SME is the non-profit worldwide association of sales and marketing management. > Your address was provided to us by one of our chapters based on meeting attendance, > inquiry, or suggestion by a local SME chapter board member but you may ensure removal > by pressing the "Remove" option at the bottom of www.selling.org. > > From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Rabid Wombat Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 04:09:17 +0800 To: Nobuki Nakatuji Subject: Re: Ultra computer In-Reply-To: <19980122011204.22624.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Very useful for playing Quake, may also have cryto application. ;) On Wed, 21 Jan 1998, Nobuki Nakatuji wrote: > Ultra computer which NEC had the calculation speed of the world > maximum of about 1000 times of the super computer to was decided > to be developed. > Ultra computer will be completed in 2001. > It has the performance that the calculation which takes 10000 years > with the personal computer is made of 3, 4 days. > > > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: root Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 04:28:22 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net (Cypherpunks) Subject: Netscape 5 will be GPL'ed Message-ID: <199801230129.BAA02808@fountainhead.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text [Press Releases] http://www.netscape.com/newsref/pr/newsrelease558.html?cp=nws01flh1 NETSCAPE ANNOUNCES PLANS TO MAKE NEXT-GENERATION COMMUNICATOR SOURCE CODE AVAILABLE FREE ON THE NET BOLD MOVE TO HARNESS CREATIVE POWER OF THOUSANDS OF INTERNET DEVELOPERS; COMPANY MAKES NETSCAPE NAVIGATOR AND COMMUNICATOR 4.0 IMMEDIATELY FREE FOR ALL USERS, SEEDING MARKET FOR ENTERPRISE AND NETCENTER BUSINESSES ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MOUNTAIN VIEW, Calif. (January 22, 1998) -- Netscape Communications Corporation (NASDAQ: NSCP) today announced bold plans to make the source code for the next generation of its highly popular Netscape Communicator client software available for free licensing on the Internet. The company plans to post the source code beginning with the first Netscape Communicator 5.0 developer release, expected by the end of the first quarter of 1998. This aggressive move will enable Netscape to harness the creative power of thousands of programmers on the Internet by incorporating their best enhancements into future versions of Netscape's software. This strategy is designed to accelerate development and free distribution by Netscape of future high-quality versions of Netscape Communicator to business customers and individuals, further seeding the market for Netscape's enterprise solutions and Netcenter business. In addition, the company is making its currently available Netscape Navigator and Communicator Standard Edition 4.0 software products immediately free for all users. With this action, Netscape makes it easier than ever for individuals at home, at school or at work to choose the world's most popular Internet client software as their preferred interface to the Internet. "The time is right for us to take the bold action of making our client free - and we are going even further by committing to post the source code for free for Communicator 5.0," said Jim Barksdale, Netscape's president and chief executive officer. "By giving away the source code for future versions, we can ignite the creative energies of the entire Net community and fuel unprecedented levels of innovation in the browser market. Our customers can benefit from world-class technology advancements; the development community gains access to a whole new market opportunity; and Netscape's core businesses benefit from the proliferation of the market-leading client software." Netscape plans to make Netscape Communicator 5.0 source code available for modification and redistribution beginning later this quarter with the first developer release of the product. The company will handle free source distribution with a license which allows source code modification and redistribution and provides for free availability of source code versions, building on the heritage of the GNU Public License (GPL), familiar to developers on the Net. Netscape intends to create a special Web site service where all interested parties can download the source code, post their enhancements, take part in newsgroup discussions, and obtain and share Communicator-related information with others in the Internet community. Netscape will also continue to develop new technologies and offer periodic certified, high-quality, supported releases of its Netscape Communicator and Navigator products, incorporating some of the best features created by this dynamic community. The ubiquity of Netscape's client software facilitates Netscape's strategy of linking millions of individuals to businesses. Today's announcements will help to further proliferate Netscape's award-winning client software which today has an installed base of more than 68 million, providing a ready market for businesses using Netscape's Networked Enterprise software solutions and Netscape Netcenter services. Netscape's research indicates that in the education market where Netscape's products are free, the Netscape client software commands approximately 90 percent share, indicating that users tend to choose Netscape when the choice is freely available. Making its browser software free also will enable Netscape to continue to drive Internet standards, maximize the number of users on the Internet, and expand the third-party community of companies and products that take advantage of the Netscape software platform. Netscape has successfully shifted its business over the past year toward enterprise software sales and to revenues from its Web site business, and away from standalone client revenues. In the third quarter of 1997, standalone client revenues represented approximately 18 percent of Netscape's revenue, with the rest coming from enterprise software, services and the Web site. Preliminary results for the fourth quarter of 1997, which Netscape announced January 5, show standalone client revenues decreased to approximately 13 percent in the fourth quarter. In the fourth quarter of 1996 by comparison, standalone client revenue represented approximately 45 percent of Netscape's revenue. In conjunction with its free client, Netscape separately announced today that it is launching a host of enhanced products and services that leverage its free client software to make it easy for enterprise and individual customers to adopt Netscape solutions. The new products and services reinforce Netscape's strategy of leveraging market penetration of its popular client software and its busy Internet site to seed further sales of Netscape software solutions in the home and business markets. The new products and services include enhanced subscription and support packages, an investment protection program for Netscape Communicator users, new reduced pricing on Netscape's retail and enterprise client products, new Premium Services on its Netscape Netcenter online service and Netscape SuiteSpot server software upgrades featuring Netscape client software. In addition, the company separately announced the launch of an aggressive new software distribution program called "Unlimited Distribution" to broadly distribute its market-leading Internet client software for free. Unlimited Distribution enables Original Equipment Manufacturers (OEMs), Internet Service Providers (ISPs), telecommunications companies, Web content providers, publishers and software developers to download and redistribute Netscape Communicator and Netscape Navigator easily with "no strings attached." In addition, beginning immediately, individual users can download Netscape Communicator or Navigator for free, register for Netscape Netcenter and, beginning tomorrow, enter the Choose Netscape Sweepstakes to win exciting travel-related prizes including a grand prize of two all-inclusive, seven-night tropical resort vacations. Individuals can download a free copy of Netscape Communicator client software or the Netscape Navigator browser from the Netscape home page at http://home.netscape.com, or by clicking on any of the thousands of "Netscape Now" buttons on the Internet. Netscape Communicator Professional Edition, which adds features for enterprise customers, will be available for US$29. Netscape Communications Corporation is a premier provider of open software for linking people and information over enterprise networks and the Internet. The company offers a full line of Netscape Navigator clients, servers, development tools and commercial applications to create a complete platform for next-generation, live online applications. Traded on NASDAQ under the symbol "NSCP," Netscape Communications Corporation is based in Mountain View, California. Additional information on Netscape Communications Corporation is available on the Internet at http://home.netscape.com, by sending email to info@netscape.com or by calling 650/937-2555 (corporate customers) or 650/937-3777 (individuals). Netscape is a trademark of Netscape Communications Corporation, which is registered in the United States and other jurisdictions. Netscape Communications, the Netscape Communications logo, Netscape Navigator, Netscape SuiteSpot, Netscape Composer, Netscape Messenger and Netscape Communicator are trademarks of Netscape Communications Corporation. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Corporate Sales: 650/937-2555 · Corporate Renewal Sales: 650/937-2929 · Personal Sales: 650/937-3777 · Government Sales: 650/937-3678 · Education Sales: 650/937-2810 If you have any questions, please visit Customer Service, or contact your nearest sales office. Copyright (c) 1998 Netscape Communications Corporation. This site powered by Netscape SuiteSpot servers. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: White Liberty Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 12:12:22 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Censorship free ISP Message-ID: <19980123035437.590.qmail@nym.alias.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sorry for the cross-posting, but some of the readers may hopefully address this: Could you recommend me a censorship FREE InterNet Service Provider that in addition to a "no censorship" policy also guarantees your privacy. I am an ex-patriate Danish who live in the United States, but has a friend who wants to publish material deemed hateful in my birth country. In Denmark, they still struggle with laws abridging freedom of expression in regard to "hate speech." Could you recommend any ISP to me in the United States that satisfies this? I know Cyberpass in California does not censor based on content. But I am sure there are many many others. Please respond in personal mail or to cypherpunks@cyberpass.net. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Anonymous Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 11:44:19 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: SC rules 1st doesn't cover lies [CNN] (fwd) Message-ID: <199801230335.EAA13849@basement.replay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >So you have to be an employee of the government to be a citizen? Yes. Welcome to America, Land of the Freeh. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Anonymous Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 12:31:14 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com Subject: State of the Union Address Message-ID: <199801230425.FAA19403@basement.replay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >Hear that the State of the Union next Monday has a section on Internet - >networks - critical infrastructure protection et al. Anyone have any >details? My bet is that it'll be the same as it always is. Klintonkov will rant about how he wants to censor the Internet. Then he'll go on and on about how he wants to connect every public school to the Internet and tax me to give these kids censored feeds, all when the students are coming out of the school system as complete morons. Some can't read, many can't do math, most have absolutely no clue about basic science, and most have absolutely no idea about the Bill of Rights and freedom of speech[1]. And of course he'll have to throw in a long diatribe about how Americans need to surrender more of their freedom to the government. Maybe he'll even mention how he doesn't remember screwing a reasonably attractive woman half his age in the White House while she was a White House intern. [1] Grab a totally random sample of 100 high school students. Haul the students out one at a time and ask them the following questions: 1) What is the acceleration of gravity at sealevel on Earth? 2) What are airlocks? What are they used for? How do they work? 3) How many chromosomes are in a normal, healthy human? 4) Joe is one of your classmates. He elects not to say the "Pledge of Allegience." Which of the following is true? a) He must say it because it is mandated by the government. b) He may not say it, but he must stand. c) He is not required to acknowledge it, except to allow others to say it if they wish to. d) He should be taken out behind the school and beaten with a sledgehammer. Afterwards his brains should be used to spell the words "Death to traitors!" e) He should be sent to the principal's office for disciplinary action. f) He should be expelled from the country. g) He must do so as long as he is a U.S. citizen. 5) Explain the equation 'f=m*a' and Newton's Third Law. 'f=m*a' is referenced in the context of Newtonian motion. 6) The First Amendment of the United States Constitution orders which of the following? a) Congress shall not restrict freedom of speech, the press, assembly, or religion. b) Congress shall not restrict freedom of speech, the press, assembly, or religion, except as ordered by the majority. c) Congress and private individuals may not descriminate on the basis of sex. d) Congress and private individuals may not restrict freedom of speech, the press, assembly, or religion. 7) What are the following government agencies and what are their function? a) FCC b) NSA c) CIA d) FBI e) DEA f) BATF g) NTSB h) DOJ 8) Your city passes a "teen curfew" law ordering criminal penalties for anybody younger than 18 who is out after 10PM on school nights. The law was passed by popular vote at this year's elections. Which of the following is true? a) This is a just and fair law, and is completely constitutional. Teenagers have no reason to be out past 10PM on school nights. They should be at home and asleep. b) This law violates the thirteenth amendment. c) This law violates the first amendment. It violates freedom of assembly. d) This is a constitutional law. Freedom of assembly does not apply because the people voted on this law and it passed by majority vote. 9) How many senators does each state have? 10) "What a piece of work is man; how noble in reason; how infinite in faculty, in form, in moving; how express and admirable in action..." Name the author. 11) Michelle mixes one gram of HCl and one half gram of NaOH. Under normal circumstances, what is produced and in what quantities? 12) (sin(9)^2 + cos(9)^2)=x. If this quantity can be determined, what is x equal to? 13) What is the square root of 256? 14) What is the fourth root of 81? 15) Given complete control of the environment, how could one cause pure water to boil at 96 degrees C? 16) Explain possible problems with cloning of humans. Analysis: Keep in mind that I'm talking about high school graduates or people who have almost graduated high school here, and these are people who have taken the appropriate courses. Back in high school I made the mistake of making some comments and assuming in class discussions that people had basic knowledge. I was wrong. Okay, so I was naive. Eventually I gave up and stopped participating simply because I was sick and tired of doing the school's job for them. 1) Most students probably won't have any idea. The value, of course, is about 9.81 m/s^2. 10 m/s^2 doesn't work although that's given in the mathematics books they give these kids. Most of them probably won't even know what the question is asking. 2) I actually brought this topic up to a group of *honors* students. Think of the expression "shove you out an airlock" for context. They boggled, wallowed in their ignorance and were proud, and then went off to their think tank. After confering with each other they came back with the breathtakingly brilliant answer that it was a contraceptive device. Of course even after explaining to them what it was they still didn't get the reference, had no grasp of how such a thing might work, and had no idea what it might be useful for. 3) This is taught in elementary biology which, at least down here, is a required course. They had no idea. Actually, most of them had no clue about basic genetics at all. Yes, basic genetics was covered in the course, and this material was included. 4) I was "Joe" in this case. The people involved had already taken a semester government course. Their answer to the question would have been along the lines of option 'd'. 5) I made a big mistake assuming they knew this one. Oops. 6) Most seemed to believe 'b' or 'd'. Maybe they knew it was 'a' and thought that maybe people wouldn't notice. 7) I made the mistake of using designations like this in a political science class during a class discussion. I regretted it when I had to start explaining these agencies and what they were supposed to be responsible for. 8) No explanation required. 9) "You expect me to memorize that for all 50 states?" "Nevermind." 10) Shakespeare. It wouldn't be so bad if they hadn't had to read Hamlet, MacBeth, and others in their English classes. Yipes. 11) "How am I supposed to know?" "Uh, you got out of chemistry with a B." "Yes, but they never gave me problems like that!" Uhhh... 12) Most probably couldn't solve it without a calculator. 13) Ditto. 14) Ditto. 15) They'll probably look at you like you're nuts and explain that you can't. Uh, right. 16) In an international relations class I took students picked a side and tried to argue it. Mine was pro-cloning or, more accurately, pro-science. Most were anti-cloning. Why? a) "God doesn't like us to do things like that." Right. Let's go outlaw fields of research based on one religion and what followers of one religion think their god is thinking at that moment. This is America, not Iraq. b) "How would you like it if somebody just came up and cloned you without you knowing and then made that person tell them information you refused to give them yourself?" Okay, I can buy the unwillful cloning part of it and could support a law on the grounds that it's theft of genetic material or for a variety of other reasons. As for the rest of that...ugh. Now maybe people on this list can't answer some of these either. That isn't the point. The point is that you should have been taught this stuff in school. Klintonkov wants to go blow millions (billions?) of dollars for censored network feeds in the schools and they haven't even got basic education down? And don't say "computer literacy" either. Most high school graduates can barely type on the bloody things, and they can forget about actually fixing a problem themselves. The *teachers* are blatently clueless. When Klintonkov fixes these problems he can talk about "wiring our schools for the 21st century." Of course then he'll want to censor the feeds or the net at large, at which point we're back to square one and should spend the money on something useful, like paying off the multi-trillion dollar debt the idiots ran up. Here's the scariest part of it all: These people are voting! And we wonder why we're in such a mess. The war isn't the war between the blacks and the whites, the liberals and the conservatives, or the Federation and the Romulans. It's between the clueful and the clueless. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 00:12:03 +0800 To: Adam Shostack Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 7:00 AM -0800 1/23/98, Adam Shostack wrote: >Ryan Anderson wrote: >| > Someone on the OpenPGP list was asking for an asignment for an algorithm >| > id in the OpenPGP RFC for Misty1 (from Japan whoda thought ). I made my >| > post about snake-oil and got chastised by hal@pgp.com as he seems to think >| > it's a respectable algorithm: >| >| Well, he said that he wasn't aware of any serious cryptanalysis, >| specifically on this list. In all honesty, that's a fully truthful >| statement. Tim May has conveniently confirmed that there *has* been some >| real cryptanalysis on it, confirming that it's not a good algorithm, but >| it's not snake-oil. (If it get's submitted for peer review, can you >| really call it that?) > >Tim has admitted that he made a mistake. I'll offer $25 to the first >person who sends me a URL or paper reference to something published by >Jan 1, 1998 offering an interesting cryptanlysis of Misty, because I'm >tired of seeing people pick on it because of Nobuki's poor English. Yes, I was thinking of FEAL. And even FEAL was not "snake oil," in that the inventors of it were not trying to use deception to promote it. (I consider this to be part of what "snake oil" is.) My comments to Nobuki-san are lighthearted jokes about his "You send me money, I send you Misty" repeated nonsense. I doubt the guy is even actually Japanese, for various reasons. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 22:10:15 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: (eternity) Re: Eternity Services In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Tim May writes: > > You are hereby condemned to receive all the rants of Nobuki-san, Detweiler > tentacles, and Dim Vulis artwork. Let's have a separate mailing list. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jonathan Wienke Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 04:41:44 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Sucking Sound... Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980123083544.006a9088@popd.netcruiser> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Has anyone else heard a "giant sucking sound" from the vicinity of the White House lately? -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Business Security 5.5 iQA/AwUBNMjG3sJF0kXqpw3MEQKBFACfZitukIJPLnErjBCslImDtaJ7ITwAn3cJ 52LjcqMbFNWXcOxaBTWk7L8S =jbPk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Blanc Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 04:50:18 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: Gore Commission wants to regulate the Net like broadcast In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980123085734.0082eda0@cnw.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain bill.stewart@pobox.com wrote: >You know better than that, Tim - The Internet is about Commerce! >The military started it, federal funding for universities made >it popular, Physicists working for Foreign Governments and >grad students at US government universities made the Web, >and Big Commerce made it grow. It's all Federal Interest - trust them! ...................................................................... You know, I wonder why they didn't think about the Federal Interest and the Legitimate Needs of Government when all this was going on back then. Are universities, students, and Physicists working for Foreign Governments any more (or less) trustworthy than anyone else? Was there no secrecy at all, when all these people - especially the scientists - were communicating no such open networks? I guess The Authorities also, among other things, didn't expect encryption (PGP) to grow as it did. .. Blanc From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Adam Shostack Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 23:10:15 +0800 To: ryan@michonline.com Subject: Re: Misty??? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801231500.KAA17132@homeport.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Ryan Anderson wrote: | > Someone on the OpenPGP list was asking for an asignment for an algorithm | > id in the OpenPGP RFC for Misty1 (from Japan whoda thought ). I made my | > post about snake-oil and got chastised by hal@pgp.com as he seems to think | > it's a respectable algorithm: | | Well, he said that he wasn't aware of any serious cryptanalysis, | specifically on this list. In all honesty, that's a fully truthful | statement. Tim May has conveniently confirmed that there *has* been some | real cryptanalysis on it, confirming that it's not a good algorithm, but | it's not snake-oil. (If it get's submitted for peer review, can you | really call it that?) Tim has admitted that he made a mistake. I'll offer $25 to the first person who sends me a URL or paper reference to something published by Jan 1, 1998 offering an interesting cryptanlysis of Misty, because I'm tired of seeing people pick on it because of Nobuki's poor English. Adam -- "It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -Hume From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: David Honig Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 03:21:06 +0800 To: Pearson Shane Subject: RE: FW: Symantec Norton, Your Eyes Only. In-Reply-To: <01ISPZTCTU9U00AS02@hmgwy1.isd.tafensw.edu.au> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980123100807.007ec770@206.40.207.40> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 03:46 PM 1/23/98 +1100, Pearson Shane wrote: >Hi William, > >Many thanks for the reply. > >I was hoping it was ok having Blowfish, >but I guess it could be their own >"efficient" version. > >Bye for now. > WHGIII gave you the most conservative answer. That is, in cryptology, the correct answer. A more detailed analysis would say: * the blowfish algorithm is considered strong for various reasons * IFF the Norton program were written correctly (not just the algorithm implementation, but key hiding, worrying about getting swapped onto disk by the OS, etc.) then it would be a useful tool for security. * Without examining the source, any assumption of security from using the tool relies *absolutely* on your trust of the implementor. (In a Turing award paper, Ritchie described how you implicitly must trust your compiler-writers too.. the compiler could have clandestine functions like inserting extra code when it recognizes patterns) So you see how WHGIII was correct, although for practical purposes (depending on the value of your data and the attackers you anticipate, plus the security of the rest of your system (only as strong as the weakest link)) you may find this tool acceptable in the non-exportable version. Keylength-limited versions are worthless from a security viewpoint. But on this mailing list, you won't find the yes/no answer you probably want. Which is probably correct behavior for this list. Cheers, ------------------------------------------------------------ David Honig Orbit Technology honig@otc.net Intaanetto Jigyoubu "The tragedy of Galois is that he could have contributed so much more to mathematics if he'd only spent more time on his marksmanship." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: redgod@usa.net Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 11:00:28 +0800 To: Lucky Green Subject: Re: (eternity) Re: Eternity Services Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980123104820.007ab4c0@iuol.cn.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain FUCK! WHO REGISTER ME TO THIS MAILING LIST? CAN YOU TELL ME HOW TO REMOVE MYSELF FROM IT? I WILL MAD! OH GOD! TOO MANY EMAIL! At 08:18 AM 1/12/98 +0100, Lucky Green wrote: >On Mon, 12 Jan 1998, Ryan Lackey wrote: >[quoting Tim] >> >> > (* I say "working" in the sense that the concept was very easy to >> > demonstrate just by using PGP and remailers. Not much more than what I >> > demonstrated in 1993 would be needed to deploy a real system. Except for >> > one thing: true digital cash. Not the bullshit one-way-traceable stuff that >> > Chaum and others are now pushing, but the original, online-cleared or >> > escrow-cleared form, a la the work of Goldberg et. al. For some of these >> > applications, below, simple token- or coupon-based schemes might work >> > adequately.) >> >> There are currently-under-development systems which will meet the digital cash >> requirement, >> from people who I consider highly respectable and competent. > >And the demand for such ecash systems is real. I personally carried a $10 >million offer for a non-exclusive license for the blind signature patent >to David Chaum. He declined the offer. "The patent is not for license". >DigiCash's CEO since March of last year, Mike Nash, also told me that >DigiCash was not considering licensing the patent. I knew that day that it >was time to quit. Not surprisingly, nobody heard from DigiCash since. > >-- Lucky Green PGP v5 encrypted email preferred. > "Tonga? Where the hell is Tonga? They have Cypherpunks there?" > > From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: redgod@usa.net Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 11:02:05 +0800 To: Ross Anderson MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain FUCK! WHO REGISTER ME TO THIS MAILING LIST? CAN YOU TELL ME HOW TO REMOVE MYSELF FROM IT? I WILL MAD! OH GOD! TOO MANY EMAIL! At 04:51 PM 1/12/98 +0000, Ross Anderson wrote: >Tim May wrote: > >> It is also likely in the extreme that a working Eternity service will >> quickly be hit with attackers of various sorts who want to test the limits >> of the service, or who want such services shut down. > >Exactly. When I first talked about Eternity, which was at either the >1994 or 1995 protocols workshop, I was walking back to my seat when >Bob Morris (then at the NSA) said, from behind his hand in a stage >whisper, `Kiddyporn!' > >Adam Back added: > >> the spooks / feds have a history of posting their own child porn if >> none is available to seize > >Indeed, and a decade or so ago there was a scandal when it turned out >that the spooks were using the Kincora Boys' Home in Belfast as a pedo >brothel in order to entrap various local politicians. For them to say >now that they need key escrow to suppress Kiddyporn is a bit rich! > >However the main threat is the court order - Anton Pillar or whatever >- and the best weapon against court orders is anonymity. If they don't >know your address they can't serve you the order or arrest you for >contempt. > >Tom Womack: > >> I can imagine *use* of the service becoming a felony > >I mentioned in the paper that Mossad might deny Eternity service to >the Muslim world by posting something rude about the Prophet Mohammed. > >One must of course create a lawful excuse for people to have Eternity >software mounted on their system. Maybe in addition to the `public' >Eternity service we should have many corporate or even private >services, many of which have escrow capabilities and are thus clearly >law-abiding and accountable :-) > >There are many other possibilities. One topic that oozes into my >consciousness from time to time is that one might integrate covert >communications and storage with an anti-spam mail program - maybe a >natural way forward if Adam hides Eternity traffic in spam! > >Tim again: > >> Great idea, but where are the customers? > >Some 90% of security research effort is on confidentiality, 9% on >authenticity and 1% on availability. Corporate infosec expenditures >are exactly the other way round, and tools to enable disaster recovery >databases to be spread holographically over a company's PCs could save >a fortune compared with the cost of some current arrangements. If a >few of these backup resources have hidden directories that mount the >public Eternity service, then who can tell? > >At the Info Hiding Workshop at Portland in April, I will present a new >idea which may facilitate such implementations of Eternity. This is >the Steganographic File System - designed to provide you with any file >whose name and password you know. If you don't know this combination, >then you can't even tell that the file is there. We do not need to >make any assumptions about tamper resistance; it can be done using >suitable mathematics. (This is joint work with Roger Needham and Adi >Shamir.) > >Ross > >PS: we need a better word for `eternityspace', and Bell Labs have >already trademarked `Inferno'. So what - Nirvana? Valhalla? > From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: redgod@usa.net Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 11:05:26 +0800 To: William Knowles Subject: Re: (eternity) autonomous agents Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980123104908.007a8ab0@iuol.cn.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain FUCK! WHO REGISTER ME TO THIS MAILING LIST? CAN YOU TELL ME HOW TO REMOVE MYSELF FROM IT? I WILL MAD! OH GOD! TOO MANY EMAIL! At 03:51 PM 1/13/98 -0800, William Knowles wrote: >On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, Tim May wrote: > >> At 1:23 PM -0800 1/13/98, William Knowles wrote: >> >> >Anguilla seems to be a doing agood job on becoming a country >> >willing on hosting data havens. >> >> Oh yeah? >> >> It's been a while since we talked about this (at least on the Cypherpunks >> list), but a couple of years ago there was much discusson on the CP list >> about just what items would be allowable in Anguilla. Vince Cate gave his >> assessment, which I found fairly nebulous, in that it appeared the Ruling >> Families would allow what they would allow, and not allow what they would >> not allow---there seemed to be a lot of ad hoc rulings. > >If memory serves me right it was because Vince bounced off the Taxbomber >site because it offered second passports, camouflage passports, and other >products that was considered a fraud, Which to me sounds odd since there >is some other company selling most everthing and then some from an .ai >domain which Vince's company has the monopoly on handing out .ai domains > >http://www.ultramec.com.ai > >> (Given that copies of "Penthouse" are illegal in Anguilla, if I recall this >> correctly, and given that gun are illegal, and drugs are illegal, I rather >> doubt that Anguilla would happily host "The Aryan Nations Bomb Site," or >> "Pedophile Heaven," or "Gun Smuggler's Digest. " Or the even juicier stuff >> any "data haven" with any claim to really being a data haven will surely >> have.) > >You also have to wonder how far in the future it will be before the >special forces of some banana republic drops in on Vince to blow-up >his operation for as he advertises publishing censored information >on ones ex-president on the Internet, or for that matter I have >yet to see abortion information coming from his servers. > >What has happened in Anguilla proves that there will be a need for >different flavors of datahavens, Different degrees libility that >datahaven owners will want to store information on their servers. >I would love to open a XXX WWW site in Anguilla pulling in the >industry average of $5-10K a month and not pay any taxes there, >But it won't happen in Anguilla with the present adminstration! > >> >And there are likely under a hundred oil companies looking >> >for firms to 'recycle' their old oil platforms and drilling >> >rigs wasting away around the world, I'm sure some might just >> >give you one just to be rid of future liability. >> >> Given the willingness of the French to have SDECE sink Greenpeace ships in >> neutral ports, how long before a couple of kilos of Semtex are applied to >> the underside of these oil rigs? >> >> Given what happened with "pirate broadcast tankers," the future is not bright. > >Isn't there a microstate off the coast of England called 'Sealand' run >from a former oil rig/gun battery for the last 20 years? > >> When the first "oil rig data haven" is found to have kiddie porn, >> bomb-making info, and (shudder) material doubting the historicity of the >> Holocaust, the U.N. will cluck and the public will cheer when it is boarded >> and seized, or simply sunk. >> >> As I said in my last piece on this subject, there is no security in >> meatspace comparable to what is gotten with mathematics. >> >> --Tim May > >I agree completely, But there is still room for massively distrubted >datahavens on oil rigs, barges, gun batteries, island nations or >hiding in Norm's LAN in Cicero IL. All the harder to supress that >information. > > >William Knowles >erehwon@dis.org > >== >The information standard is more draconian than the gold >standard, because the government has lost control of the >marketplace. -- Walter Wriston >== >http://www.dis.org/erehwon/ > > From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Adam Shostack Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 03:57:07 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net (Cypherpunks Mailing List) Subject: Forbiden Library soon to open to the public (fwd) Message-ID: <199801231601.LAA17521@homeport.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 01:25:32 -0500 > To: voynich@rand.org > From: Daniel Harms > Subject: Forbiden Library soon to open to the public > > This was on another mailing list, but I thought it might > be of interest to the list. Does anyone have any more details? > > [Slightly edited] > > >Greetings, ladies and gentlemen. > > > >The evening news has just announced a rather unexpected decision taken by > >the Vatican's "Sant'Uffizio" (Holy Office): the whole archive of Holy > >Office secret and sensitive documents, also known as the "Forbidden > >Library", currently occupying 27 large rooms in the Vatican Library, will > >shortly be open to the public for the purpose of academic research. > >The works, collected between 1542 and 1903, include official records of > >Inquisition trials and supposed miracle investigations, various tons worth > >of confidential papers, a huge library of indexed and forbidden books, etc. > >According to Cardinal Ratzinger "Researchers will probably have quite a few > >surprises". > > > > Daniel Harms dmharms@acsu.buffalo.edu > "Fie on the immortality of cast-iron lawn deer!" > -- H. P. Lovecraft > -- "It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -Hume From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Michael Stutz Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 00:24:44 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Re: Why no "Banner Ad Eaters"? In-Reply-To: <19980122231624.60180@eskimo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, Wei Dai wrote: > I think the long-term outlook for content providers is pretty bleak. How > do you make a profit when your copyrights are not enforceable and your ads > are easily filtered? I think this is actually a very encouraging sign for content providers. The profit model, however, will have to change -- those models that work for free software businesses will likely also work for other forms of information as well. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Eli Brandt Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 00:56:23 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: FCPUNX:Revenge on the Nerds -Maureen on a rampage In-Reply-To: <199801231205.HAA23105@anon7.pfmc.net> Message-ID: <199801231628.IAA08748@toad.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Igor Chudov @ home writes: > I suggest writing a proxy server that does such filtering, running it on > the local machine, and using it as proxy server from your netscape browser. "The Internet Junkbuster Proxy(TM) gets rid of stuff you don't want while surfing the Web, such as banner ads and cookies. It's free." http://www.junkbusters.com/ht/en/ijb.html -- Eli Brandt | eli+@cs.cmu.edu | http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~eli/ From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 02:00:07 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: sleep writing? (fwd) Message-ID: <199801231751.LAA14854@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Hi David, Forwarded message: > >Consequently, a contradiction emerges between the universality of intellectual labor (the search for > >universal truth and the good of all) and the particularity of the interests served. The intellectual > middle rival? devil rim lad? This is too weird. I believe the entire problem rests in that concept 'universal truth', again a veiled reference to a theism of some sort or another, a fundamental transcendance. > That reminds me. When I was in Austin, I did notice that they had quite an incredible amount of > public access TV. We spend quite a bit of money on it that is for shure. I believe we have like 5 or 6 channels currently. I worked on a program for access television a few years ago doing post production, video processing, and audio sweetening. It was a soap opera that we filmed in a local retirement home and even won an award at some contest in England. It was called 'Silver Time'. The cool thing is that anyone can go down and by taking a couple of 4 hour classes put their own show on. Because I know the person who does their technical support via contract through one of my customers (CVS) they'll let me go in and play around for free. They have some quite professional equipment, Raptors and several non-linear editing decks as well as a bunch of Amiga Video Toasters and such. That experience is one of the reasons I ended getting my own Toaster. The hard drive of which failed and I have spend the last few evenings, between answering your traffic, rebuilding. It finaly came back online yesterday and I think I've just about got it all rebuilt software wise. One of the local Austin Cypherpunks works on a variety of shows down there and occassionaly puts on his own video game review production. We had hoped to do a 30 minute 'state of crypto today' show but we never could get the momentum going. Jim From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 02:18:57 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Test [No reply please] Message-ID: <199801231815.MAA15013@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Test No reply please ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Burnes Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 03:27:55 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: PGP SDK integrated into Communicator 5.x Mail? Message-ID: <34C8ED9B.283E7D4@ssds.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain OK: I'm sure I'm not the first one to think of this one. With Communicator 5.x source code being free, how long will it take for someone to integrate it with PGP SDK (and mixmaster and nym.alias.net nyms for that matter?) Whew! jim -- "How do you explain school to higher intelligence?" Elliot to his brother in ET From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: John Young Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 02:52:01 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: Misty??? Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980123183020.00727acc@pop.pipeline.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain One version of MISTY appeared a couple of years ago, and it was discussed on cpunks then. Mitsubishi has had brief descriptions of it since then as the algorithm used on its LSI chip. Here are two almost identical Melco blurbs which describe the features of MISTY1 and MYSTY2: http://www.melco.co.jp/rd_home/map/j_s/topics/new/misty_e.html http://www.mitsubishi.com/ghp_japan/TechShowcase/Text/tsText06.html Note that these undated sites promise to publicize the algorithm and state that public testing of algorithms is a means of assuring their strength. Matsui, one of its authors, is a highly respected cryptographer and he's a regular participant in international crypto conferences. His articles on the ciphers underlying MISTY are listed in the IETF draft for it: http://jya.com/misty1.htm For those who wish to see the 25 draft encryption algorithms submitted to IETF in 1997 (MISTY1 the last) see a list at: http://jya.com/ietf-dea-97.htm From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "John M" Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 06:20:15 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: How to eliminate liability? Message-ID: <19980123220714.7351.qmail@hotmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Bill, Thanks for your response. Such a simple idea, I kinda figgered (was hoping) that it was already thought of, but I hadn't heard of it. I have been meaning to buy Schneier's book... One of my points, however, is that if the division of the encrypted information is done properly, even if the private key were deduced by whatever means, all they would find is (for instance) the high order bits and some ECC, but nothing that could be used to regenerate any meaningful information without the other parts. Because of this, I have been asking myself, how could any one datahaven operator be held responsible for holding classified, porn, or other information if they only have a meaningless slice of it? Perhaps this is more a legal question (even more out of my league) than anything... Any comments? >Secret Sharing is easy, and there are a number of implementations with >useful properties like being able to read the original from K of N parts.* >The problem is how to implement it in ways that protect the server >operators as well as the information providers. For instance, >the author's client software can do the split and send the shares too >different servers, and make sure the readers know how to find the pieces; >this can even be automated enough to make it convenient. >This not only makes it hard for the Bad Guys to find the pieces, >it makes it impossible for the data haven provider to know what's >being stored there, and even if the site is siezed it doesn't give up >the critical information. This is a Good Thing, and we've discussed it. > >On the other hand, what happens if a Bad Guy wants to entrap the operator, >by planting child pornography, pirated software, and TOP SECRET data >in the data haven, advertising on Usenet and then calling the cops. >Anybody, including the cops, can retrieve the contraband and bust them. >So what are the alternatives, besides obviously encrypting your disks >so it's harder to determine what's on them besides the plant, >and the ever popular "don't let them find your physical location"? >Perhaps the data haven can do the split and farm the data out to >other data havens - but how do they know the data they're receiving >is really a slice of contraband data instead of Yet Another Plant? >It gets pretty convoluted. > >[* You can read about secret sharing in Schneier. ] > Thanks! > Bill >Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com >PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 04:33:51 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Poll shows Bill G. popular & MS monopoly supported [CNN] Message-ID: <199801232028.OAA15813@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > POLL SHOWS BILL GATES' POPULARITY GROWING > > Gates poll graphic January 23, 1998 > Web posted at: 1:58 p.m. EST (1858 GMT) > > (CNN) -- The popularity of Microsoft Corp. Chairman Bill Gates among > Americans is growing, according to a CNN/Time magazine poll, and > almost half of the computer users interviewed favor having the > company become the dominant provider of Internet services. [text deleted] ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Adam Shostack Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 03:49:40 +0800 To: Markus.Kuhn@cl.cam.ac.uk Subject: Re: Netscape 5 will be GPL'ed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801231938.OAA19072@homeport.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Markus Kuhn wrote: | > NETSCAPE ANNOUNCES PLANS TO MAKE NEXT-GENERATION COMMUNICATOR SOURCE CODE | > AVAILABLE FREE ON THE NET | | Excellent! | | Finally mainstream software companies start to understand that security | critical software has to be provided to the customer in full compilable | source code to allow independent security evaluation. I'm not sure that this is the message they're sending at all. They're trying to work the Linux/GNU model of getting a horde of volunteer programmers to improve their product, and base other products on it, because of the ease of integration. I don't know that security was even on their minds. | No formal CC/ITSEC evaluation process can beat the scrutiny of the | Internet crowd. I wonder how long we have to wait for the day on which Not that the internet crowd is such hot shit, either. The freely usable FWTK contained a *really* easy to find replay attack for about 3 years, befire I pointed it out at the Crypto rump session. (www.homeport.org/~adam/crypto97.html). Small code. Comments pointing to problems. Security critical in some instances. 3 Years to find. Adam | we can download the latest GPL'ed Windows NT version source code from | Microsoft's web server ... -- "It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -Hume From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Pearson Shane Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 12:11:14 +0800 To: "'cypherpunks@toad.com> Subject: FW: Symantec Norton, Your Eyes Only. Message-ID: <01ISPY42BHTU00B7O0@hmgwy1.isd.tafensw.edu.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Anyone? > -----Original Message----- > From: Pearson Shane > Sent: Thursday, January 15, 1998 1:25 PM > To: 'cypherpunks@toad.com' > Subject: Symantec Norton, Your Eyes Only. > > > Hey all, > > Just wondering what people think of this product? > Good, bad or ugly? > > Is there an international version and a US version? > > If so, what limitations are in the international version? > > Many thanks... From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "William H. Geiger III" Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 05:10:31 +0800 To: Jim Choate Subject: Re: Poll shows Bill G. popular & MS monopoly supported [CNN] In-Reply-To: <199801232028.OAA15813@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199801232117.QAA15910@users.invweb.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In <199801232028.OAA15813@einstein.ssz.com>, on 01/23/98 at 02:28 PM, Jim Choate said: >Forwarded message: >> POLL SHOWS BILL GATES' POPULARITY GROWING >> >> Gates poll graphic January 23, 1998 >> Web posted at: 1:58 p.m. EST (1858 GMT) >> >> (CNN) -- The popularity of Microsoft Corp. Chairman Bill Gates among >> Americans is growing, according to a CNN/Time magazine poll, and >> almost half of the computer users interviewed favor having the >> company become the dominant provider of Internet services. And the sheeple bindly march on. :( - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- Tag-O-Matic: This marks Logical End-Of-Message. Physical EOM follows -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a-sha1 Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBNMj24o9Co1n+aLhhAQEXVwP8CnRvxvwou3wmDxEXTvbdm6dPO56dW5sy ZdT4WIRaBnW7pZ7ZsXBMrer4xotUhVCURiYatcbzVb1O+T+UwmP7Lm6AGL1btuSS AYfB/odSX3gD3YQcvK9GAsYFrkq09I5j4x5UUVZAMB6SpkaJFc4AHrZX2+8UBXP9 iXuWtpwRkM8= =lJis -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "John W. Adams" Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 07:44:13 +0800 To: Subject: GoLive CyberStudio2 Message-ID: <199801232335.PAA23942@rigel.cyberpass.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Hello Mac User, Our records indicate that you downloaded a free 30-day trial of GoLive CyberStudio 2 from our web site. Your 30-day trial evaluation period has expired. Purchasing the full copy of the software now will allow you to continue working without losing any of your pages or sites. I can also include the new "CyberStudio 2" book by Peach Pit Press (an $18.95 value) for free. I'll need for you to contact me within 30 days so that I may facilitate your purchase. Since your download, we are proud to announce that GLCS2 won the prestigious Eddy Award for Best Web Development Software at MacWorld this month, so you can rest assured that you are getting the best possible solution for your web development and management. I look forward to hearing from you. Thanks. John W. Adams, Direct Sales GoLive Systems, Inc. 800-554-6638, opt 1 or 512-464-8545 direct mailto:jwadams@golive.com http://www.golive.com From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Declan McCullagh Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 07:44:47 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Internal Affairs: Looking for Lewinsky, from Netly News (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 15:41:04 -0800 (PST) From: Declan McCullagh To: politech@vorlon.mit.edu Subject: Internal Affairs: Looking for Lewinsky, from Netly News ******* http://cgi.pathfinder.com/netly/opinion/0,1042,1708,00.html The Netly News (http://netlynews.com/) January 23, 1998 Internal Affairs: Looking for Lewinsky by Declan McCullagh (declan@well.com) Call it the year the Internet brought down a president. If President Clinton just can't shake this week's accusation of peripatetic philandering, let's give the Net some credit. First, we must acknowledge Matt Drudge, the online rumormonger who finally exacted his revenge on Clinton for supporting Blumenthal v. Drudge, a lawsuit with a million-dollar price tag. When Newsweek spiked an expos of the Monica Lewinsky scandal, it was Drudge who spread the rumor across the Net and throughout the media on Saturday, January 17. [...] Of course, until yesterday, Clinton's impeachment seemed about as far-fetched a possibility as our unearthing one of Lewinsky's close friends on Usenet -- which is exactly what The Netly News was dispatched to do. Every time there's a major news event, our intrepid Internet team is called forth to scour DejaNews, troll IRC and mass-mail anyone who might possibly divulge information on the given subject. The Lewinsky search was less revealing than most. We found the former White House intern's annual salary; her home address in Portland, Ore.; the amount she and her mother donated to Democratic campaigns ($1,550 in 1996). Someone informed us, in all seriousness, that Lewinsky once gave him a goldfish. We also had people ask us if we'd pay them for information. (Fat chance.) [...] From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Pearson Shane Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 12:58:32 +0800 To: "'William H. Geiger III'" Subject: RE: FW: Symantec Norton, Your Eyes Only. Message-ID: <01ISPZTCTU9U00AS02@hmgwy1.isd.tafensw.edu.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Hi William, Many thanks for the reply. I was hoping it was ok having Blowfish, but I guess it could be their own "efficient" version. Bye for now. > -----Original Message----- > From: William H. Geiger III [SMTP:whgiii@invweb.net] > Sent: Friday, January 23, 1998 2:12 PM > To: Pearson Shane > Cc: 'cypherpunks@toad.com' > Subject: Re: FW: Symantec Norton, Your Eyes Only. > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > In <01ISPY42BHTU00B7O0@hmgwy1.isd.tafensw.edu.au>, on 01/23/98 > at 02:56 PM, Pearson Shane said: > > >Anyone? > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Pearson Shane > >> Sent: Thursday, January 15, 1998 1:25 PM > >> To: 'cypherpunks@toad.com' > >> Subject: Symantec Norton, Your Eyes Only. > >> > >> > >> Hey all, > >> > >> Just wondering what people think of this product? > >> Good, bad or ugly? > >> > >> Is there an international version and a US version? > >> > >> If so, what limitations are in the international version? > >> > >> Many thanks... > > > Is source code available for peer review? NO > > Is it US Commercial software? YES > > I wouldn't use it to secure an outhouse. No source no trust. > > - -- > - --------------------------------------------------------------- > William H. Geiger III http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii > Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 > > Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice > PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. > OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html > > - --------------------------------------------------------------- > > Tag-O-Matic: If at first you don't succeed, work for Microsoft. > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: 2.6.3a-sha1 > Charset: cp850 > Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 > > iQCVAwUBNMgK6Y9Co1n+aLhhAQF08wP/abLg8ftPY7nuJ1hp8OKi6Ik2lx7A70/3 > 0GU++TZAmLWJ4XKlgCiujm0Z06P3rSEf+qtiIOTfFKUaN4kvt9JlmkH6h8fmuAJf > t48Cq5XQbeYDMJ6HjvGpPraZJd5zmqv54UQuUjswZBONNIMqt+ypy6id/hpe0BY9 > mOg9VyMW1cM= > =aNiz > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 06:41:03 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: Revenge on the Nerds -Maureen on a rampage In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980122094933.00844100@popd.ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: <1y5RJe1w165w@bwalk.dm.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain bill.stewart@pobox.com writes: > >Jack Aaron's, the commodities division of Goldman Sachs, controls inter alia > >like 99% of US coffee supply. if you try to circumvent their monopoly, > >by trying to import a material amount of coffee, whether it's the cheap shit > >for proles or the high-end caffeine fix from Kenya, you and your suppliers > >just might find yourself in a lot more trouble that the computer manusfactur > >who were reluctant to put the free mickeysoft browser on their dekstop. > >Why doesn't DOJ come down on Goldman Sachs? Does it have anything to do wit > >the fact that a Goldman Sachs partner is in Clinton's cabinet? > > Yow - talk about threats to the Computer Industry - Controlling our > Coffee Supply can affect the productivity of the Entire Country! > These Monopolists are after our precious bodily fluids! Purity Of Essence[tm] > > BTW, if you've ever been to Sacramento, CA, that hive of villiany > and stupidity, there's apparently a law or custom which says that > nobody may make or sell any coffee strong enough to wake up a > government bureaucrat... The heathen custom of percolating coffee leads to mental degeneracy and sexual perversion. When the water passing through the grinds is not boiling, many essential chemicals remain in the grinds. The only civilized way to make coffee is to boil the grinds in the water for a few minutes. Try it, you'll discover that it tastes completely differently from the percolated swill. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 07:14:50 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: Physical Meet: Saturday Feb. 14? (fwd) Message-ID: <199801232308.RAA16685@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > > I would like to set the Feb. physical meeting for Saturday the 14th at the > > normal 6-7pm time. > > > > An alternate would be the following 21'st. > > > > Any major objections to the 14th? Suggestions on location? > > Let's shoot for the 21st. My wife will kill me if I try to leave > the house on the 14th. :-) Any other suggestions? I personaly don't care so unless somebody else speaks up before Sunday I'll go ahead and set it for the 21st and begin to make the announcements on the cypherpunks mailing list. Who wants to make the usenet round? ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Robert Hettinga Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 06:32:16 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Group works on way to make Net payments work. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain --- begin forwarded text Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 13:28:39 -0800 (PST) From: William Knowles To: DCSB Subject: Group works on way to make Net payments work. Organization: Home for retired social engineers & unrepented cryptophreaks MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: bounce-dcsb@ai.mit.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: William Knowles SAN FRANCISCO (Wired) - Someone out there is actually worried that you might end up with a desktop littered with different digital wallets or that you might not get a receipt for your pay-per-view time visiting an X-rated site. In fact, a group of 30 electronic payment companies are working on a protocol that would ensure that all digital wallets and cybercash registers will know how to talk to each other and issue the proper digital "paper trails." Spearheaded by ecash pioneer, Mondex International, the group is working on an way to make a single digital wallet on the desktop to interact with the payment systems designed by everyone from CyberCash to AT&T to Wells Fargo Bank. By using XML (extended markup language), the protocol is designed to ensure interoperability among the software used by buyers, sellers, and financial institutions to carry out online transactions. The open trading protocol hasn't gotten half the attention that SET, the secure electronic transaction protocol, has. And, at first glance, its job may not seem as crucial since it's not about guaranteeing the security of transactions. But those aboard the new protocol-defining body say their system of compatible operations is key to getting consumers to really embrace e-commerce. "Imagine if you've got an IBM wallet, a Microsoft wallet, and a VeriFone wallet," suggested Mondex International development co-director, David Burdett. "Unless you have some standard way in which these wallets can communicate with each other and with merchants, you aren't going to end up with interoperability and the consumer's going to have to have lots of different wallets on the PC." The goal of the open trading protocol is to make transparent the traditional steps in a transaction: the offer for sale, agreement to purchase, generation of receipt, and attendant paper trail. And to make it all happen with no more than a click of the buyer's mouse. "(The open trading protocol) is trying to replicate in the virtual world what people have in the real world: things like invoices, making payments, getting receipts and delivery of goods," said Burdett. And to guarantee that you can have real-world accountability, even for virtual purchases. "If you're only getting delivery of virtual goods over the Net, such as software or entertainment content that you pay for, there's no physical delivery at all; but you still want a receipt and all the other normal aspects of a transaction," Burdett said. A preliminary version of the proposed common language was posted early this month to the OTP Web site, by the 30-member consortium, which includes CyberCash, DigiCash, IBM, MasterCard, Mondex, Netscape, Oracle, Sun Microsystems, VeriFone, and Wells Fargo Bank. Conspicuously absent from the coalition are Visa International, which reportedly declined to join the coalition when invited by Mondex, and Microsoft, which apparently opted out of the group's plan because it is busy developing an alternate standard called the Value Chain Initiative. Still, Microsoft's absence isn't expected to thwart widespread adoption of the protocol. "There's a lot of flexibility with these protocols," said Zona Research analyst Vernon Keenan, who pointed out that the group protocol and Microsoft's version are not necessarily mutually exclusive. "The key factor to determine adoption is whether ... the major commerce server players incorporate these protocols." And it seems at least several will, since they've already joined the ranks of open trading protocol proponents. -- The information standard is more draconian than the gold standard, because the government has lost control of the marketplace. -- Walter Wriston -- http://www.dis.org/erehwon/ For help on using this list (especially unsubscribing), send a message to "dcsb-request@ai.mit.edu" with one line of text: "help". --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/ Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Anonymous Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 00:43:35 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Surprisingly fast PGP5.5(i) scanning and proofreading Message-ID: <199801231635.RAA13976@basement.replay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain From: ica@hawking.fokus.gmd.de (Ingmar Camphausen) Newsgroups: de.comp.security,alt.security.pgp,comp.security.pgp.discuss Subject: Surprisingly fast PGP5.5(i) scanning and proofreading Message-ID: <6aaf44$id8@stern.fokus.gmd.de> I am probably not the only one surprised how "out of a sudden" the 5.5 version of PGP was scanned and proofread by Stale Schumacher alone (as it seemed to me). Hence I asked him and Teun Nijssen (they, according to the README in the PGPsdk 5.5 distribution on www.pgpi.com, did all the work) how come they were so much faster and there wasn't a coordinated "distributed" proofreading as with the "international" version of PGP5.0. Teun took the time for a detailed answer and was so kind to permit its free distribution; so here is what he wrote in reply to my request: ---8<--snip-------------------------------------------------------- Hello Ingmar, there are no secrets in this reply; you may do with it whatever you like. /I was somewhat surprised how suddenly and fast PGP5.5(i) was scanned *and* /proofread. Thank you. /Having participated in the proofreading of the 5.0i version and with the /amount of time spent by the "correctors" all over the world in mind, I had /the impression that 5.5 was there and proofread like "a bolt out of the /blue"! It took roughly 100 hours of stamina, between Christmas and 5 January to scan the complete 5.5 books and to correct the 5000 pages of the PGPsdk and Win version. Scanning was no longer an issue, as we had now an Automatic Document Feeder for the HP Scanjet 4C at our disposal. This ADF has been the hero of the two weeks: actually it did not scan 7500 pages ("tools" book + 5.5) but about 10.000 pages, since an initial set of about 3000 pages was discarded when the OCR quality proved not optimal yet. This wonderful ADF misfed exactly zero pages on all this effort. It can contain 50 pages input, so 10.000 pages require 200 manual interventions 30 minutes separated from each other (the HP Scanjet 4C combined with Omnipage Pro takes a little bit less than 30 seconds per page). One Pentium did nothing but scanning, several days starting at 9:00 and finishing around 23:00. The reason that correction went so much better than on either of the two editions of PGP 5.0 was in the new format of the books. The fonts are now excellent, including visible 'tab' characters (kind of triangles), visible spaces (if more than one space is used somewhere, the second one is printed as a tiny black triangle) and a special 'underscore' with little curls. This new book format is supported by a truely marvelous new 'repair' utility, that obviously was optimized to correct the results that come from using an Omnipage version HP Scanjet 4c: the intro of the book "Tools for Publishing Source Code via OCR" describe setting-up the OCR on a Mac/Omnipage/HP 4c. Anyway, repairing 100 pages now takes 4 hours worst case (if very many visible spaces are used: Omnipage often mis-counts multiple visible spaces). And best case: 100 pages can be repaired in half an hour. That is twice the speed of scanning. The true horror of PGP 5.0 was the BINARIES.ZIP file. It was done within 8 hours for 5.5 Windows. The trick was simply to manually delete any page that contained any error. Then run the 'sortpage' utility to report what was missing and *re-scan* those pages. In this way it went from 217 pages to 30 and then to only 6 pages that needed real correction, because at the margin of these pages some lines had not got enough black ink from the book print process. /Did you get any special ...emmmm...support? very definitely not! Neither would we have accepted it should it have been available. It was not available. We think this game should be played "by the book" (sic). The books were simply an order of magnitude better. I think that someone at PGP Inc really tested scanning this time, before printing. Now if they print a next bookset, let's hope they pretty-print everything, discarding trailing visible whitespace and replacing initial spaces by tabs on all lines... /Or did I just miss a "call for volunteers" etc. like the one that /preceeded the release of PGP5.0i? Nope, there was no call this time, because Stale and me could do it alone. /I am very interested in a satisfying answer to this question, for it is /closely related to the credibility of the international PGP website and /the new software version. I agree with that objective. That is the reason that I wrote this answer as extensively as I did and why I permit you to publish it as widely as you like. cheers, teun Senior Project Manager Computer Centre Tilburg University ------------------------------------------>8----snip------------- The original reply was PGP-signed by Teun; it should be available via http://www.in-berlin.de/User/aurora/teun_pgp55-ocr.txt from today, ~ 7pm UTC (GMT) on. Ingmar -- Ingmar Camphausen camphausen@fokus.gmd.de PGP key on server GMD FOKUS = Research Institute for Open Communication Systems From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Kent Crispin Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 09:48:08 +0800 To: Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer Subject: Re: Poll shows Bill G. popular & MS monopoly supported [CNN] In-Reply-To: <199801232028.OAA15813@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <19980123174224.64030@songbird.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Fri, Jan 23, 1998 at 02:59:53PM -0500, William H. Geiger III wrote: > >Forwarded message: > > >> POLL SHOWS BILL GATES' POPULARITY GROWING > >> > >> Gates poll graphic January 23, 1998 > >> Web posted at: 1:58 p.m. EST (1858 GMT) > >> > >> (CNN) -- The popularity of Microsoft Corp. Chairman Bill Gates among > >> Americans is growing, according to a CNN/Time magazine poll, and > >> almost half of the computer users interviewed favor having the > >> company become the dominant provider of Internet services. > > And the sheeple bindly march on. :( Bill -- you *believed* this? :-) -- Kent Crispin, PAB Chair "No reason to get excited", kent@songbird.com the thief he kindly spoke... PGP fingerprint: B1 8B 72 ED 55 21 5E 44 61 F4 58 0F 72 10 65 55 http://songbird.com/kent/pgp_key.html From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 10:34:36 +0800 To: Jonathan Wienke Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 8:35 AM -0800 1/23/98, Jonathan Wienke wrote: >Has anyone else heard a "giant sucking sound" from the vicinity of the >White House lately? If that was an intentional pun, a good one. But I had been marveling at how the Clinton troubles were being ignored by the Cypherpunks...I figured we were all so jaded about government and the criminals who flourish in Washington that there was no point in commenting on this latest revelation of corruption. (The apparent perjury, suborning perjury, and witness-tampering, not the affair with Lewinsky, however tawdry it was.) It would have been interesting to see the whole process leading up to Clinton's resignation (next week?) pass without any discussion by us. (Actually, I threw in an aside yesterday about "President Gore," but no one picked up on it.) Personally, I think having a crippled and ineffective President is better than having an activist bozo President Gore, so I'm kind of hoping this whole affairs takes several more months to unwind. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Bill Stewart Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 16:26:44 +0800 To: Tim May Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980123235513.007ceba0@popd.ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 08:02 AM 1/23/98 -0800, Tim May wrote: >Yes, I was thinking of FEAL. And even FEAL was not "snake oil," in that the >inventors of it were not trying to use deception to promote it. (I consider >this to be part of what "snake oil" is.) When FEAL was written, it wasn't snake oil. If anybody tries to use it today, it _is_ snake oil, because it and a number of variants on it are well known to be broken. (Too bad, because it was made to be small and light and run on wimpy processors, but there are now other small fast cyphers around.) Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Kent Crispin Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 16:03:21 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: Sucking Sound... In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980123083544.006a9088@popd.netcruiser> Message-ID: <19980123235636.36170@songbird.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Fri, Jan 23, 1998 at 06:30:27PM -0800, Tim May wrote: > At 8:35 AM -0800 1/23/98, Jonathan Wienke wrote: > > >Has anyone else heard a "giant sucking sound" from the vicinity of the > >White House lately? > > If that was an intentional pun, a good one. > > But I had been marveling at how the Clinton troubles were being ignored by > the Cypherpunks...I figured we were all so jaded about government and the > criminals who flourish in Washington that there was no point in commenting > on this latest revelation of corruption. (The apparent perjury, suborning > perjury, and witness-tampering, not the affair with Lewinsky, however > tawdry it was.) > > It would have been interesting to see the whole process leading up to > Clinton's resignation (next week?) pass without any discussion by us. > > (Actually, I threw in an aside yesterday about "President Gore," but no one > picked up on it.) > > Personally, I think having a crippled and ineffective President is better > than having an activist bozo President Gore, so I'm kind of hoping this > whole affairs takes several more months to unwind. Tim has missed the most important part of this whole episode: the fact that Linda Tripp was wearing a wire, and apparently working for the FBI. Think for a moment about the position this puts what's his name in -- you know, the guy who's name begins with an "F", who works for Janet Reno... In fact I am amazed that cp's in general haven't picked up on the potential significance of this. Think back to just a few short weeks ago, when Freeh and Reno had their little spat... What do you think about congressional resistance to wiretaps, in light of current events? -- Kent Crispin "No reason to get excited", kent@songbird.com the thief he kindly spoke... PGP fingerprint: B1 8B 72 ED 55 21 5E 44 61 F4 58 0F 72 10 65 55 http://songbird.com/kent/pgp_key.html From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: David Miller Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 12:59:53 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Jay Leno on Clinton 1/23/98 Message-ID: <34C974E1.70B42BD8@avana.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Tonight in Leno's monologue they did a piece on the eriee similarities between Nixon and Clinton: NIXON: Was known for the campaign slogan "Nixon's the One!" CLINTON: Known by the phrase "That's the Guy!" NIXON: Was known for his "widows peak" CLINTON: Known to make widows peak NIXON: Took on Ho Chi Minh CLINTON: Took on Ho NIXON: Was familiar with G. Gordon Liddy CLINTON: Familiar with the G-spot NIXON: Wanted "Peace with Honor" CLINTON: Wanted "Piece while on her" --David Miller middle rival devil rim lad From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Adam Back Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 08:51:34 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: IETF S/MIME to follow PGP in building in GAK? Message-ID: <199801240031.AAA00863@server.eternity.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain You may recall the furor generated by PGP Inc adding a GAK enabling feature thus making it easier for governments to impose GAK on the deployed PGP 5.x user base. PGP Inc called this feature CMR (Corporate Message Recovery) or ARR (Additional Recipient Request). Over on IETF S/MIME, right now there is a thread which looks set to add an almost identifical feature to S/MIME (spooky how similar the feature is even). Most of the regular contributors on S/MIME work for GAK sell out companies anyway, so I figure this is pretty much a done deal. (S/MIME already has another form of GAK also, in that the X.509 key directory specs allow the directory to optionally keep _private_ keys also). I think the ARR mechanism is actually more dangerous than keeping locally escrowed copies of keys in PGP because of the web of trust model. (See: http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/cdr/ for my thoughts on this). In the S/MIME world where there is a more hierarchical approach to Certification, you can expect government run CAs which demand a copy of your private key also. (eg. the UK DTI document on crypto licensing proposals was talking about this method). For S/MIME, S/MIME style ARR seems fairly balanced in lethality to CAs which keep private keys. I wonder if Phil Zimmermann feels proud of himself now that S/MIME looks like it will adopt his CAK/GAKware design. You might be amused at this introductory remark from the proposer on S/MIME IETF: : As a side note, this is not a radically new concept as something very : similar has already been proposed and implemented by PGP. : : Flames welcome. The guy's proposal below. It was well received too. Someone else proposed adding it in as a core MUST S/MIME requirement to handle these additional recipient requests. (You can follow the thread on the hypertext archive at www.imc.org (look for IETF S/MIME mailing list, or by subscribing to ietf-smime@imc.org). Adam ====================================================================== Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 13:07:01 -0700 From: "Steve Russell" Subject: Corporate Key mechanism To: A new and somewhat radical thread.... Because I believe the following to be true: - Requiring key recovery is a bad thing (complexity, cost, implementation, etc.) - Companies do have a need to access mail encrypted to or encrypted by their employees (lost keys, legal investigations, etc) - We are all working on methods of satisfying US export requirements so that we can export a cryptographically useful product - The is a middle step between full key recovery and no hope of recovery which involves encrypting messages to a 'corporate key' in addition to a individual public key when sending a message. Basically, what is involved is changing the user certificate format to designate a field for a second certificate which represents the corporate public key appropriate for that user. An application intending to encrypt mail to that user MUST then encrypt the message to both the user key and the corporate key. By no means am I implying that everyone that implements S/MIME leave a back door into all of their messages. However, since most companies that are implementing secure messaging are setting up their own CA (Entrust, OnSite, Netscape, etc.) and they have control over what fields are populated and with what information, they are able to choose whether or not they need visibility into their own data. As a side note, this is not a radically new concept as something very similar has already been proposed and implemented by PGP. Flames welcome. Steve From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Bill Stewart Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 16:38:10 +0800 To: Tim May Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980124003505.008a8c70@popd.ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 06:30 PM 1/23/98 -0800, Tim May wrote: >But I had been marveling at how the Clinton troubles were being ignored by >the Cypherpunks...I figured we were all so jaded about government and the >criminals who flourish in Washington that there was no point in commenting >on this latest revelation of corruption. (The apparent perjury, suborning >perjury, and witness-tampering, not the affair with Lewinsky, however >tawdry it was.) I was talking to Hugh yesterday, and he asked if I'd heard the big news - no, not Clinton's sex scandal, the important news, about the Netscape browser source code being freed :-) (This was before the news on the Unabomber confession broke.) >(Actually, I threw in an aside yesterday about "President Gore," but no one >picked up on it.) If the Democrats think Clinton's going down anyway, they're probably better off having him resign now and give Gore a couple years in office, since he'll probably be re-elected if the economy stays strong (probable) and if the Republicans don't come up with a useful candidate (probable); if he has to be Vice-Clinton for two more years, he's got minimal chance of election even if the Republicans come out with another bozo, because Gore will be more tainted and still just waterboy. >Personally, I think having a crippled and ineffective President is better >than having an activist bozo President Gore, so I'm kind of hoping this >whole affairs takes several more months to unwind. Yeah - especially since President Gore would have to start off by Doing Something to get some positive momentum, and it would probably be doing something bad to the Internet. Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Adam Back Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 09:22:51 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: cryptix java AES effort Message-ID: <199801240059.AAA00241@server.eternity.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain (AES is the Advanced Encryption Standard, a NIST standardisation process ongoing at present to select a replacement encryption algorithm for DES. Algorithm submissions were requested by NIST from any interested parties.) AES requires submitters to include reference java implementations. Systemics provides a BSD licensed (free for commercial and non-commercial use) java crypto library called cryptix. Cryptix has an IJCE interface which means that it integrates with other java crypto apps as a standard java cryptographic service class. http://www.systemics.com Systemics are interested to add AES candidate algorithms to cryptix, and are offering to provide the java implementation to any AES algorithm submitters, see: http://www.cs.ucl.ac.uk/staff/I.Brown/cryptix/aes/AES_crypt.html Systemics also are interested in encouraging programmers to join in this effort: http://www.cs.ucl.ac.uk/staff/I.Brown/cryptix/aes/AES_prog.html Adam -- Now officially an EAR violation... Have *you* exported RSA today? --> http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/ print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 09:23:12 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: URL for S/MIME CAK discussions Message-ID: <199801240113.BAA00416@server.eternity.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I wrote: > (You can follow the thread on the hypertext archive at www.imc.org > (look for IETF S/MIME mailing list, or by subscribing to > ietf-smime@imc.org). The discussions on S/MIME CAK/GAK implementations start with: http://www.imc.org/ietf-smime/mail-archive/1038.html Adam From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jonathan Wienke Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 17:54:49 +0800 To: Tim May Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980124012706.006c5264@popd.netcruiser> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 At 06:30 PM 1/23/98 -0800, Tim May wrote: >At 8:35 AM -0800 1/23/98, Jonathan Wienke wrote: > >>Has anyone else heard a "giant sucking sound" from the vicinity of the >>White House lately? > >If that was an intentional pun, a good one. It just goes to show Ross Perot was half right ;) It wasn't coming from Mexico because of NAFTA; it was coming (heheh he said coming, Beavis!) from Clinton's bimbos in action! Maybe he could sell the videotapes, and apply the proceeds to reducing the deficit...X-rated stuff is a growth industry lately. >But I had been marveling at how the Clinton troubles were being ignored by >the Cypherpunks...I figured we were all so jaded about government and the >criminals who flourish in Washington that there was no point in commenting >on this latest revelation of corruption. (The apparent perjury, suborning >perjury, and witness-tampering, not the affair with Lewinsky, however >tawdry it was.) Oddly similar to Watergate--the break-in was not a big deal, but the cover up was. >Personally, I think having a crippled and ineffective President is better >than having an activist bozo President Gore, so I'm kind of hoping this >whole affairs takes several more months to unwind. I'd like to see the Asian money connection established sufficiently well that Boinker and the Tree-man get hauled off in handcuffs together. Hmmm...Boinker And The Tree-Man...sounds like one of those sucky late-'60s folk rock groups...or else a really bad Saturday morning catroon...ummm cartoon. It's late and my rationality module keeps throwing this really odd GPF... -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Business Security 5.5 iQA/AwUBNMmz6MJF0kXqpw3MEQLdsQCfaZhvrJSacH2MrT7lyAhCFhtfilIAn3ub 2xUzK8M6v/cOk8w+FTy4D9ke =HEAN -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Alan Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 16:34:49 +0800 To: Bill Stewart Subject: Re: Misty??? In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980123235513.007ceba0@popd.ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Fri, 23 Jan 1998, Bill Stewart wrote: > At 08:02 AM 1/23/98 -0800, Tim May wrote: > >Yes, I was thinking of FEAL. And even FEAL was not "snake oil," in that the > >inventors of it were not trying to use deception to promote it. (I consider > >this to be part of what "snake oil" is.) > > When FEAL was written, it wasn't snake oil. If anybody tries to use it > today, it _is_ snake oil, because it and a number of variants on it > are well known to be broken. Then maybe we should refer to FEAL as "Lemon Oil"? ]:> alan@ctrl-alt-del.com | Note to AOL users: for a quick shortcut to reply Alan Olsen | to my mail, just hit the ctrl, alt and del keys. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Ryan Anderson Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 16:08:51 +0800 To: Tim May Subject: Re: Sucking Sound... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > (Actually, I threw in an aside yesterday about "President Gore," but no one > picked up on it.) I'd wager we all saw it, and couldn't think of anythign clever to say. Funny thing about all this: In a recent Newsweek a former Congressman who just got out of jail was talking about how he was disgusted byt the current Congress. *ALL* they do is posture, they don't even bother going through the motions of passing legislation. The Congress of the 80s at least *did* something. (Okay, so it wasn't very useful, or good, but a Congress that does nothign can't be changed with any effect, one that actually gets things done once in a while, if persuaded to change a little, might be a benefit...) If anyone cares, I might still have that one, I can look up who it was... > > Personally, I think having a crippled and ineffective President is better > than having an activist bozo President Gore, so I'm kind of hoping this > whole affairs takes several more months to unwind. > > --Tim May > > > > The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography > ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- > Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, > ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero > W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, > Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. > "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." > > > Ryan Anderson - Alpha Geek PGP fp: 7E 8E C6 54 96 AC D9 57 E4 F8 AE 9C 10 7E 78 C9 print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Tim May wrote: >Yeah, I'm surprised that "banner ad eaters" have not been widely deployed. >(If they're available, I haven't about them.) Something to remove the >annoying banners, or stop them from wasting valuable time loading in the >first place. Tim, I'm surprised. WebFree for the Macintosh does this very thing. It matches on URL substrings and simply removes these things wholesale from your browser window. No broken image boxes, nothing. It also kills cookies and stops animated GIFs from leaking through, if you want to nuke either of those things. The URL is: http://www.falken.net/webfree/ Junkbusters (http://www.junkbusters.com/) offers a personal proxy server kind of thing that lets you mash just about everything: HTTP headers, user agent info, referer URL, cookies, etc. It runs on either NT or Unix variants. One could also use it to get around a firewall configured to reject non-standard browsers, but That Would Be Wrong, as Nixon once said. It lets you specify which sites or substrings to look for, and which ones you trust. It also does proxy chaining. Ratbert ratbert at nym dot alias dot net From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Attila T. Hun" Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 14:41:34 +0800 To: rantproc Subject: 2 sides to the poll on DOJ v. M$ In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980123145928.01266c90@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <19980124.060014.attila@hun.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- let's look at the tail of the Reuters newsclip on M$ settling the immediate contempt action --a settlement most of the outside experts say gives the government an advantage in the final determination. what I dont like is that M$ scored a huge PR victory by caving in to the government --it had no choice, but many of the fence sitters are now going to state that M$ is "reforming" --which is pure bullshit; they are playing the Lenin-Stalin game of dealmaking so they can regroup and work around it, then blatantly violate it after they have sufficient strength. I like the comment Maureen quoted the 21st from one attorney who liked M$ to smallpox --"...stamp it out, ...or it will come back." But a poll issued Friday cast doubt on how far the public backs the government's scrutiny of Microsoft. A Time/CNN survey of 1,020 adults Jan. 14-15 found 46 percent thought Microsoft's dominant role in the software industry was good for consumers against 30 percent who thought it was bad. I am surprised they determined only 46% thought it was good as it has made for cheap, almost good enough, and ubiquitous software --if you dont mind settling for mediocrity with most innovations products M$ has either preempted or stolen. what is really surprising is that there really were 30% who acknowledged the danger of M$ as a monopoly! people vote for government with their wallets --voting for "cheaper" commerce-- even more so. Americans are not known for their discriminating choice of products based on quality and function --they almost always settle for "almost good enough" and cheap. secondly, they are truly "sheeple" and must have what everybody else has which is a market driven by positive feedback --in analog amplifiers, that often causes smokeouts-- and controlled are commonly referred to as oscillators. The same poll found 51 percent thought the government should refrain from steps to reduce Microsoft's advantage over other software companies vs. 32 percent who thought the government should intervene. this one is also very telling. the 51% is peanuts against the fact that 30% actually believe the government should intervene! --that is even more impressive considering that most Americans want government to do less and trust federal agencies even less. for something as complicated as antitrust actions, I find the 32% proactive intervention percentage rather warm and fuzzy in that there is a real understanding that M$ is a malignant cancer, and needs to be treated as such. M$ made a serious mistake treating the judge, the DOJ, and the American people with the contempt they have always treated their competitors. gone are the home grown 'aw shucks' appreciation of the American success story --Gate$ and crew have been shown to be the selfish 4 year old brats we in the industry have all learned to "love".... the only danger of this recent poll is that M$ spin doctors will show it as a victory --it's not. 30+% that want to curtail your power is not a victory --the percentage changed from a few hundred or a thousand of in the industry who feel Gate$ has long since passed the acceptable level of control to greater than 30% of the population-- _that_ is significant. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: latin1 Comment: No safety this side of the grave. Never was; never will be iQBVAwUBNMmLfbR8UA6T6u61AQH4HQH/TIjc9GJhrJdcPvXtQ1A9CNVRk9zQdCRH YHR5X0OGgEWN+U5cLnMRvEGbhoLiKDRHTklsE7vKmsGSBZc7MwAd0A== =uPBW -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Vipul Ved Prakash Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 09:50:16 +0800 To: adam@homeport.org Subject: Re: Netscape 5 will be GPL'ed In-Reply-To: <199801231938.OAA19072@homeport.org> Message-ID: <199801240659.GAA03702@fountainhead.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Adam Shostack wrote: > I'm not sure that this is the message they're sending at all. > They're trying to work the Linux/GNU model of getting a horde of > volunteer programmers to improve their product, and base other > products on it, because of the ease of integration. I don't know that > security was even on their minds. It doesn't matter. In fact this is the smartest thing they could have done. Given their recent financial predicament and the level of competence and cluefulness they have shown in the past, I am amazed they didn't let inertia and their investment in the anti-civilization (and pointy haired managers) hold them back. I feel that Microsoft's extremely determined attempts to corner the browser market has forced them to stop evading reality for a while. They seem to have realized that the best model for their business is Caldera/Redhat/Stronghold model. To add value to already existing free software that adheres to an open standard. Releasing Netscape 5 code will effectively ensure them a standard to capitalize on. Best, Vipul Links: x. http://www.openspace.org/ has setup up a forum for developing free Netscape. x. http://slashdot.org/slashdot.cgi?mode=article&artnum=425 http://www.slashdot.org/slashdot.cgi?mode=article&artnum=499 this guy first suggested that netscape should go GPL (on january 12) and predicted they'll do it right away. -- Powell lingered. "How's Earth?" It was a conventional enough question and Muller gave the conventional answer, "Still spinning." -- "Reason", Asimov. ================================================================== Vipul Ved Prakash | - Electronic Security & Crypto mail@vipul.net | - Web Objects 91 11 2233328 | - PERL Development 198 Madhuban IP Extension | - Linux & Open Systems Delhi, INDIA 110 092 | - Networked Virtual Spaces From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Robert Hettinga Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 20:51:31 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Announcement: RPK InvisiMail released on 12 Jan, 1998 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain --- begin forwarded text From: RPK New Zealand Ltd Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 15:24:28 Subject: Announcement: RPK InvisiMail released on 12 Jan, 1998 You have received this message because at some time during the past two years you have requested to be put on the RPK New Zealand Ltd. company mailing list. (We're the Fast Public Key Encryption company). If you wish to be removed from the list, please forward this message to remove@rpkusa.com -------------------------------- RPK New Zealand Ltd. in a joint venture with Virtually Online Ltd. has released RPK InvisiMail, a standards-based e-mail security application for use with Internet mail software (SMTP/POP3). The product offers the strongest encryption available anywhere in the world. Since it was built outside the United States, it is also available all over the world with strong encryption. RPK InvisiMail is also the easiest product of its type to setup and use which makes it quite unique. You can learn more about this product by reading the press release below or by visiting the web site at www.InvisiMail.com. We are also offering FREE downloads of the RPK InvisiMail Intro product. Please give it a try and pass it along to anyone you like. -------------------------------- For Immediate Release Contact: Sal Cataldi, Cataldi PR +1 212.941.9464, scataldi@earthlink.net, www.InvisiMail.com RPK InvisiMail(tm), secure Internet e-mail with globally available strong encryption for Microsoft, Netscape platforms SAN FRANCISCO, Jan. 12, 1998 - InvisiMail Ltd (www.InvisiMail.com) announced today immediate worldwide availability of RPK(tm) InvisiMail(tm), a standards-based e-mail security add-in for Microsoft, Netscape and other POP3/SMTP Internet e-mail clients and gateway servers. Tested and certified by the International Computer Security Association (www.ncsa.com), RPK InvisiMail automatically and transparently encrypts e-mail messages and attachments, authenticates the sender and verifies the contents of each message have not been changed in transit. RPK InvisiMail is globally available with high strength encryption. InvisiMail and the underlying RPK encryption algorithm were developed outside the United States. Therefore, InvisiMail is not subject to restrictive U.S. export policies. RPK InvisiMail is as easy to set up and use as anti-virus software, and just as important. While Microsoft and Netscape battle each other with incompatible and difficult to use security offerings, InvisiMail seamlessly integrates with ALL popular POP3/SMTP e-mail products including Netscape, Microsoft, Eudora, Pegasus, Calypso -- more than any other solution available today -- making it the preferred e-mail security product for multi-platform use, worldwide. All InvisiMail users can send the FREE InvisiMail Intro version to anyone worldwide, providing compatibility without requiring others to purchase anything, making InvisiMail unique among e-mail security offerings. "Most people don't realize that their e-mail can be forged, altered or read by anyone, any time, without any evidence," said Jack Oswald, President and CEO of RPK Ltd. "Without products like RPK InvisiMail, communications on the Internet are untrustworthy." InvisiMail uses the RPK Fast Public Key Encryptonite(tm) Engine, the strongest cryptography available worldwide today. RPK is dramatically faster than the well-known RSA algorithm, yet just as secure. RPK has been analyzed by world class cryptographers who have issued reports on the security and integrity of the technology. "InvisiMail is the easiest, fastest, most transparent e-mail security product I have seen," said Kevin Shannon, President of net*Gain, a specialist in launching Internet companies. "This is the product we've all been waiting for." As part of its official launch, InvisiMail Professional is available FREE to all New Zealand residents for ninety days. RPK InvisiMail is available in two desktop versions: Intro (FREE) and Professional (introductory price $29.95). RPK InvisiMail Enterprise Gateway Server will be available Q2 1998. InvisiMail can be downloaded from: www.InvisiMail.com. All trademarks and registered trademarks are those of their respective companies. *** --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/ Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 00:38:18 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Executing Kaczynski In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 1:13 AM -0800 1/24/98, Anonymous wrote: >The more important silence is about the instant sentencing of the >Unabomber compared to Jim Bell's sentencing. What _is_ happening with >Jim? Because it was so utterly obvious that Kaczynski _was_ the Unabomber, through diaries, physical evidence, his plea bargaining discussions, and confessions in his other writings, the outcome was a foregone conclusion. (I thought all the foofaw about whether Kaczynski was the Unabomber or not was fatuous nonsense...in my world, when you find bomb materials in a home, with no evidence they were planted there by the FBI or BATF, and you find diaries and papers and bomb plans, and travel documents match the dates in question, and on and on, then it is impossible with a straight face to talk about the issue of guilt still be up in the air....I guess this is why I'll never be a juror.) I generally favor having very, very few things made criminal, but having very, very fast and efficient trials. E.g., a court date set for several weeks after an arrest, a week-long trial, and execution (if decided upon) a few weeks later. So, Kaczynski, O.J., the Menendez brothers, and their ilk would have gotten fast trials and quick trips to the wall. (For those who think this is inconsistent with anarchist or crypto anarchist views, reread the sections of "The Diamond Age" where the mugger was dispatched off the end of the pier. Polycentric law doesn't mean charade trials which last for a year, with appeals and delays lasting another 10 years.) BTW, Kaczynski is apparently no crazier that any number of Cypherpunks I have met, including myself. Recall that a leading Cypherpunk was suspected for a while as being the Unabomber. >I saw that. There are rumors floating about that they have the goods >on Gore too, his hands are certainly as dirty as Slick Willie's. I'd Yeah I've read reports that the FBI has surveillance tapes of him taking bribes ("campaign contributions") from Asian and other donors. With him implicating the Administration directly. It could well be that this is what has kept both Louis Freeh and Janet Reno in office: they have the goods on Clinton and Gore. I'll say this about Janet Reno: she certainly acted swifty. (Which probably shows the 20 hours of taped conversations and other evidence is overwhelming, for Reno to so quickly authorize the attempt to sting the President.) Though it was too bad she didn't use Waco tactics and send the tanks in to send incendiary materials through windows of the White House. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 00:46:30 +0800 To: cypherpunks@www.video-collage.com Subject: Re: Document destruction services In-Reply-To: <199801241536.JAA04018@manifold.algebra.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 7:36 AM -0800 1/24/98, Igor Chudov @ home wrote: >Hi, > > >I have a box of confidential papers that I do not need. I would prefer not >to just throw them away, but to either shred or incinerate them. Due to >the sheer size of the box, it is not practical for me to buy and use a home >shredder. Would anyone have a suggestion as to what is the best way to >destroy them? Aer there any services that do it inexpensively? Just burn them, either in a fireplace, since it's winter, or in a 55-gallon drum. Or in a campfire. Should go quickly. I don't understand what the issue is. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 23:40:21 +0800 To: cypherpunks@www.video-collage.com Subject: Document destruction services Message-ID: <199801241536.JAA04018@manifold.algebra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Hi, I have a box of confidential papers that I do not need. I would prefer not to just throw them away, but to either shred or incinerate them. Due to the sheer size of the box, it is not practical for me to buy and use a home shredder. Would anyone have a suggestion as to what is the best way to destroy them? Aer there any services that do it inexpensively? Thank you igor From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 23:46:53 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Document destruction services (fwd) Message-ID: <199801241540.JAA19472@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Hi Igor, Forwarded message: > Subject: Document destruction services > Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 09:36:54 -0600 (CST) > From: ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home) > I have a box of confidential papers that I do not need. I would prefer not > to just throw them away, but to either shred or incinerate them. Due to > the sheer size of the box, it is not practical for me to buy and use a home > shredder. Would anyone have a suggestion as to what is the best way to > destroy them? Aer there any services that do it inexpensively? Ask one of your friends with a fireplace to help out. Just remember to stire the ashes when done. Otherwise it's possible using IR sensing to read the ink on larger pieces of the paper. A bar-b-q pit is also a very good means. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 00:07:36 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: FCC sets new access rates - ISP's escape inter-state tariff - Congestion argument denied Message-ID: <199801241559.JAA19539@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > X-within-URL: http://www.fcc.gov/ccb/access/fcc97158.html > Federal Communications Commission > navigation bar with links to FCC Homepage, Search, Commissioners, > Bureaus/Offices, and Finding Information > > HTML Format > > > FCC 97-158 > > First Report & Order In the Matter of > Access Charge Reform > Price Cap Performance Review for Local Exchange Carriers > Transport Rate Structure and Pricing > Usage of the Public Switched Network by Information Service and > Internet Access Providers > _________________________________________________________________ > > Text Version | WordPerfect Version | Acrobat Version | News Release | > Errata > > > > > Table of Contents > links to HTML files > > These files do not contain the changes specified in the 6/4/97 Errata! > > > TITLE PAGE > > I. Introduction 1 > A. Background 17 > > > 1. The Existing Rate System 17 > 2. Implicit Subsidies in the Existing System 28 > 3. The Telecommunications Act of 1996 32 > > > B. Access Charge Reform 35 > > > 1. Rationalizing the Rate Structure 36 > 2. Baseline Rate Level Reductions 42 > > > > II. Summary of Rate Structure Changes and Transitions 53 > A. Common Line Rate Structure Changes 54 > B. Other Rate Structure Changes 61 > > III. Rate Structure Modifications 67 > A. Common Line 67 > > > 1. Overview 67 > 2. Subscriber Line Charge 72 > 3. Carrier Common Line Charge 88 > 4. Common Line PCI Formula 106 > 5. Assessment of SLCs and PICCs on Derived Channels 111 > > > B. Local Switching 123 > > > 1. Non-Traffic Sensitive Charges 123 > 2. Traffic Sensitive Charges 136 > > > C. Transport 150 > > > 1. Entrance Facilities and Direct-Trunked Transport 152 > 2. Tandem-Switched Transport 158 > > > D. Transport Interconnection Charge (TIC) 210 > > > 1. Background 210 > 2. Discussion 212 > > > E. SS7 Signalling 244 > > > 1. Background 244 > 2. Discussion 252 > > > F. Impact of New Technologies 256 > > IV. Baseline Rate Levels 258 > A. Primary Reliance on a Market-Based Approach With A > Prescriptive Backdrop and the Adoption of Several Initial > Prescriptive Measures 258 > > > 1. Background 258 > 2. Discussion 262 > > > B. Prescriptive Approaches 285 > > > 1. Prescription of a New X-Factor 285 > 2. Rejection of Certain Prescriptive Approaches 287 > > > C. Equal Access Costs 299 > > > 1. Background 299 > 2. Discussion 302 > > > D. Correction of Improper Cost Allocations 315 > > > 1. Marketing Expenses 315 > 2. General Support Facilities 326 > > > > V. Access Reform For Incumbent Rate-of-Return Local Exchange Carriers > 329 > A. Background 329 > B. Discussion 330 > > VI. Other Issues 336 > A. Applicability of Part 69 to Unbundled Elements 336 > > > 1. Background 336 > 2. Discussion 337 > > > B. Treatment of Interstate Information Services 341 > > > 1. Background 341 > 2. Discussion 344 > > > C. Terminating Access 349 > > > 1. Price Cap Incumbent LECs 350 > 2. Non-Incumbent LECs 358 > 3. "Open End" Services 365 > > > D. Universal Service-Related Part 69 Changes 367 > > > 1. Background 368 > 2. Discussion 372 > > > E. Part 69 Allocation Rules 388 > > > 1. Background 388 > 2. Discussion 389 > > > F. Other Proposed Part 69 Changes 390 > > > 1. Background 390 > 2. Discussion 391 > > > > VII. Further Notice of Proposed Rulemaking 397 > A. PICCs for Special Access Lines 397 > > > 1. Background 398 > 2. Proposal 403 > > > B. General Support Facilities Costs 407 > > > 1. Background 408 > 2. Proposal 412 > > > > VIII. Final Regulatory Flexibility Analysis 419 > > IX. Procedural Issues 441 > > X. Ordering Clauses 459 > > Appendix A List of Commenters > > Appendix B Comment Summary > > Appendix C Final Rules > > STATEMENTS > Commissioner Quello > Commissioner Ness > Commissioner Chong > > > > > View/Download single-file HTML version of Entire Report > > > > > Pagination of the documents contained in these files may not match > that of the Official Paper Version when viewed or printed using your > system. > > > > navigation bar with links to FCC Homepage, Search, > Commissioners, Bureaus/Offices, and Finding Information > > > last updated 6/9/97 > ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 02:09:34 +0800 To: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov) Subject: Re: Document destruction services (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801241720.LAA19990@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 9:40 AM -0800 1/24/98, Igor Chudov @ home wrote: >Jim, try it. I am sure that adding alcohol will not help much, but will >make it a fire hazard. > >Can one buy concentrated sulfuric acid in this country without being >stormed by jackbooted thugs? I think that I'll need a couple of gallons. >To that I'll need about teh same amount of chalk-like material to >neutralize it after the deed is done. > > - Igor. Come on, Igor, just go out and make a bonfire. I can't see why this is turning into a major thread, "How Igor can burn a box of documents." As for buying H2SO4, of _course_ one can buy it! But it's a really dumb way to destroy some papers. Just burn them. I don't get what the problem is. (And don't repeat that they are "hard to burn." Unless they are made of some other than paper, which is doubtful, they will burn.) --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 17:19:53 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: No Subject In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801240913.KAA18772@basement.replay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Tim May writes: > But I had been marveling at how the Clinton troubles were being > ignored by the Cypherpunks... I've been too amused by the proceedings to comment on it. The more important silence is about the instant sentencing of the Unabomber compared to Jim Bell's sentencing. What _is_ happening with Jim? > It would have been interesting to see the whole process leading up to > Clinton's resignation (next week?) pass without any discussion by us. > (Actually, I threw in an aside yesterday about "President Gore," but no one > picked up on it.) I saw that. There are rumors floating about that they have the goods on Gore too, his hands are certainly as dirty as Slick Willie's. I'd like to see both of those rat bastards disgraced. After all the vitriol Klinton & Algore have thrown at the '80s and Republicans their Karma demands they be succeeded by Newt Gengrich (and live to see it). > Personally, I think having a crippled and ineffective President is better > than having an activist bozo President Gore, so I'm kind of hoping this > whole affairs takes several more months to unwind. Or several years, or whatever ... :-) I definitely agree. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 02:08:45 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: Why no "Banner Ad Eaters"? In-Reply-To: <199801240418.FAA17881@basement.replay.com> Message-ID: <5DiTJe33w165w@bwalk.dm.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) writes: > Tim, I'm surprised. WebFree for the Macintosh does this very thing. It > matches on URL substrings and simply removes these things wholesale from > your browser window. No broken image boxes, nothing. It also kills cookies > and stops animated GIFs from leaking through, if you want to nuke either of > those things. Of course, the person putting up the web page might well argue that you're violating his copyright in some bizarre way. The image on your screen with the ad banners stripped is not what the author intended; especially if you're helping third parties to strip ads. IANAL... thoughts? I occasinally use the Altavista search engine in text mode (www.altavista.digital.com) and it has ads (for amazon.com) right in the middle of the text, in the same html file as the search results. I suppose the next logical step in the anti-ad proxy is to edit the dynamically edit the incoming html and to delete or replaces specified strings; perhaps a while "intelligent agent" that will filter in only the information you've requested, keeping out *all* the graphics and other crud. While I was researching this subject, I came across a web page of some student at Rutgers. It displays 4 advertizing banners and uses java/javascript (obnoxious technologies that I disable) to make sure that you've clicked all 4 (presumably he gets some credit for it); only after the javascript is convinced that you've clicked the ad banners can you get in. Yeah, right. But if ad filtering becomes more commonplace in the future, i can imagine crypto being (mis)used to enforce ad viewing: "You no clicky my sponsor ads, you no see my content." I disagree with whoever said that the technology for deleting ads is the same as the technology for deleting porn. Porn publishers very much don't want their content to reach minors or anyone who's offended by it, and mostly coopereate with rating agencies. Porn isn't generally mixed with desirable content on the same pages. You can just block the entire page containing some porn (or, with vancouver-webpages' pics ratings you can block pages containing "disparaging remarks about the environment", kewl). Advertisers don't give a damn if their ads are seen by those who aren't interested in them, and will use technology to make it harder for you to filter out their ads (or to get to the content without seeing sponsor ads). When MS IE 3.0 first came out, it supported pics ratings. So I got very excited and wrote my own little pics ratings server (a better ones is available from wc3, by the way) to filter out banner ads. Unfortunately, after I wrote it and started testing t, I doscovered that IE 3.0 only asks the pics server about eh top-level page; it does NOT ask the pics server about the urls references in "IMG SRC=" and the like. I guess the reasoning is that if the top-level page is acceptable, than anything embedded on it is acceptable, which may be true about porn but not true about ads. Overall, this whole advertiser-sponsored model sucks. I'd rather be paying (electronic cash, of course) for the resources I use. > The URL is: http://www.falken.net/webfree/ > > Junkbusters (http://www.junkbusters.com/) offers a personal proxy server > kind of thing that lets you mash just about everything: HTTP headers, user > agent info, referer URL, cookies, etc. It runs on either NT or Unix variants. It runs udner OS/2 too!! I've got it to work under NT. it may work under Win95 as well. (Anyone wants an executable for M$ platforms?) > One could also use it to get around a firewall configured to reject > non-standard browsers, but That Would Be Wrong, as Nixon once said. It lets > you specify which sites or substrings to look for, and which ones you trust. I've been using junkbstr and am pretty happy with it. One disadvantage of using any proxy server, as opposed to filtering in the browser, is that the browse is one step removed from the TCP/IP. E.g. if you try to connect to a non-existent domain without a proxy, the browser goes to DNS and tells you that it can't resolve it. Going via a proxy, the proxy server goes to DNS and sends a page back to the browser sayng it couldn't resolve it, which isn't as clean. Although I'm not doing it much, the following worked out fine for me: junkbuster running on an NT box connected to the internet via ppp; browsers running on 4 win95 boxes connected to the NT box via ethernet, using the NT box as the proxy server. I've exchanged e-mail with someone about the list of URL patterns to block... I have no time for this myself, but someone ought to put up a web page tracking what ad urls people block. That would be a nice public service. > It also does proxy chaining. It would be nice to have it chain automatically through more than one proxy. Another nice little feature of junkbstr is it ability to send "wafers" - your own cookies, which will hopefully confuse whatever tracking software exists on the server. I send noise with the following wafers: NOTICE=Please send no cookies AnonTrack=X Apache=X ASPSESSIONID=X CFID=X CFTOKEN=X DOL=X DTRACK=X EGSOFT_ID=X GeoId=X GeoStitial=X group_discount_cookie=T GTUID=00.00000.0.0.0000.0000 ink=X JEB2=X MC1=ID=X p_uniqid=X PFUID=X registered=YES RMID=X s_uniqid=X session-id-time=X session-id=X SWID=X UID=X Urid=X userid=X --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 01:15:20 +0800 To: tcmay@got.net (Tim May) Subject: Re: Document destruction services In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801241709.LAA04622@manifold.algebra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Tim May wrote: > >I have a box of confidential papers that I do not need. I would prefer not > >to just throw them away, but to either shred or incinerate them. Due to > >the sheer size of the box, it is not practical for me to buy and use a home > >shredder. Would anyone have a suggestion as to what is the best way to > >destroy them? Aer there any services that do it inexpensively? > > Just burn them, either in a fireplace, since it's winter, or in a 55-gallon > drum. This kind of paper does not burn very well. I have tried it. Burning it in my fireplace will take forever. A drum is an option though. - Igor. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 01:24:40 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: Document destruction services (fwd) Message-ID: <199801241720.LAA19990@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Hi Igor, Forwarded message: > Subject: Re: Document destruction services > Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 11:09:36 -0600 (CST) > From: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home) > This kind of paper does not burn very well. I have tried it. Burning it > in my fireplace will take forever. A drum is an option though. Is the additive to the paper alcohol soluble? If so soak it in alcohol for a few minutes, say a half hour, and then burn it. Should go quite well. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 01:48:53 +0800 To: ravage@ssz.com (Jim Choate) Subject: Re: Document destruction services (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801241720.LAA19990@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199801241740.LAA04906@manifold.algebra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Jim Choate wrote: > Forwarded message: > > > Subject: Re: Document destruction services > > Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 11:09:36 -0600 (CST) > > From: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home) > > > This kind of paper does not burn very well. I have tried it. Burning it > > in my fireplace will take forever. A drum is an option though. > > Is the additive to the paper alcohol soluble? If so soak it in alcohol for a > few minutes, say a half hour, and then burn it. Should go quite well. Jim, try it. I am sure that adding alcohol will not help much, but will make it a fire hazard. Can one buy concentrated sulfuric acid in this country without being stormed by jackbooted thugs? I think that I'll need a couple of gallons. To that I'll need about teh same amount of chalk-like material to neutralize it after the deed is done. - Igor. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Greg Broiles Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 03:45:42 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: Executing Kaczynski In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980124114351.0072c3c8@pop.sirius.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >The more important silence is about the instant sentencing of the >Unabomber compared to Jim Bell's sentencing. What _is_ happening with >Jim? Kaczynski was not sentenced immediately - but the crimes he plead guilty to and the legal posture of the prosecution (e.g., the withdrawn notice of intent to seek the death penalty) make his sentence a foregone conclusion. He is still, however, subject to the same pre-sentencing rigamarole that Jim was; see, for example, this excerpt from the transcripts of the court proceeding on 1/22 - (at ). 9THE COURT: Okay. There will be a special assessment of 10 $650 imposed for your guilty plea pursuant to federal law. 11Mr. Kaczynski, do you understand those possible 12 consequences of your plea? 13THE DEFENDANT: Yes, Your Honor. 14THE COURT: Under the Sentencing Reform Act of 1984, the 15 United States Sentencing Commission has issued guidelines for 16 judges to follow in determining the sentence in a criminal 17 case. Have you and your attorneys talked about how the 18 Sentencing Commission guidelines might apply to your case? 19(Discussion off the record between the defendant, 20 Ms. Clarke and Mr. Denvir.) 21THE DEFENDANT: Yes, Your Honor. 22THE COURT: Do you understand that the Court will not be 23 able to determine the guideline sentence for your case until 24 after the pre-sentence report has been completed and your 25 attorney and the Government have had an opportunity to object SUSAN VAUGHAN, CSR No. 9673 -- (916) 446-1347 3810 1 to any of the findings in that report? 2THE DEFENDANT: Yes, Your Honor. 3THE COURT: Do you understand that after it has been 4 determined what guideline applies to a case, the judge has the 5 authority in some circumstances to impose a sentence that is 6 more severe or less severe than the sentence called for by the 7 guidelines? 8THE DEFENDANT: Yes, Your Honor. 9THE COURT: How about the question of appeal? Has that 10 been waived? 11MR. LAPHAM: Yes, Your Honor. It's contained at page 7, 12 beginning at line 16. 13THE COURT: Okay. Do you understand that by entering 14 into the plea agreement you have entered with the Government, 15 you will have waived or given up your right to appeal all or 16 any part of your plea of guilty and anything else that occurs 17 during this conviction hearing and anything that occurs during 18 your sentencing hearing? 19THE DEFENDANT: Yes, Your Honor. 20THE COURT: Do you understand that parole has been 21 abolished and that if you plead guilty, you will spend the 22 rest of your life in prison and you will never be released or 23 paroled? 24THE DEFENDANT: I understand that, Your Honor. 25THE COURT: Do you understand that if the sentence is SUSAN VAUGHAN, CSR No. 9673 -- (916) 446-1347 3811 1 more severe than you expected, you will still be bound by your 2 plea and will have no right to withdraw it? 3THE DEFENDANT: I understand it, Your Honor. 4THE COURT: Do you understand that if I do not accept 5 the sentencing recommendation in your plea agreement, you will 6 still be bound by your plea and will have no right to withdraw 7 it? 8THE DEFENDANT: I understand that, Your Honor. [...] -- Greg Broiles | US crypto export control policy in a nutshell: gbroiles@netbox.com | Export jobs, not crypto. http://www.io.com/~gbroiles | http://www.parrhesia.com From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 01:56:17 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: Document destruction services (fwd) Message-ID: <199801241749.LAA20147@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Subject: Re: Document destruction services (fwd) > Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 11:40:01 -0600 (CST) > From: ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home) > > > This kind of paper does not burn very well. I have tried it. Burning it > > > in my fireplace will take forever. A drum is an option though. > > > > Is the additive to the paper alcohol soluble? If so soak it in alcohol for a > > few minutes, say a half hour, and then burn it. Should go quite well. > > Jim, try it. I am sure that adding alcohol will not help much, but will > make it a fire hazard. I have Igor, works pretty well for some paper additives. If it's a plastic base then use finger nail polish remover or model cement thinner. How in the hell can you say with a straight face burning paper with alcohol is any more a fire hazard then burning paper? You don't burn the paper while it's in the alcohol bath, but remove it and then burn it. If you try to burn it in the bath what you get is just like gasoline. The fumes burn not the alcohol itself so the paper doesn't get nearly hot enough to do any good. You're making burning paper, additives or not, a lot more complicated than it is. If you're that worried about it go down to your hardware store and buy a hand-held torch. Additives or not that will burn it. Good luck. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 04:09:59 +0800 To: Declan McCullagh Subject: "Blowjobs for Jobs" (Re: Sucking Sound...) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain AP, Washington. President Clinton today announced his "Blowjobs for Jobs" program, open to young interns, wealthy socialites, and Hollywood actresses. Clinton denied that this would be either improper behavior, adultery, or abuse of his official powers. "Hell, it ain't adultery, as Hillary would rather have me gettin' my oil changed in the Oval Office bathroom than do it herself, and it ain't abuse, cuz that's why I'm havin' these young thangs do it instead of it doin' it myself. I ain't no prevert." ... At 11:35 AM -0800 1/24/98, Declan McCullagh wrote: >Tim is right to bring this up. It will have immense impact on the issues >the cypherpunks care about. How can Clinton talk about policy proposals >(crypto, Net-taxes, etc.) when his presidency is spiraling away? Well, actually it was Jonathan Wienke who brought it up...I just commented on it. I suppose one reason I hadn't attempted to write anything on it is that there was just SO MUCH STUFF on it. New details are emerging hourly, and we haven't even heard what's on the 20 hours of tape. Yes, it's a massively covered story. Is it overcovered? I don't think so. After all, the election campaign will generate 15 minutes of news coverage on the network news shows each and every day for almost 10 months, so why not this level of coverage for what looks to be the end of Clinton's Presidency? (With all that that implies for further loss of confidence in the democratic system (yay!).) There are some who are steadfastly saying "But Clinton has denied these charges." and "Let's wait until all the details come out." These folks appear to be either in denial or are just going through the motions. A vast amount of interesting evidence is accumulating, giving support to various serious charges. If they are roughly as we are hearing, modulo some possibly miscommunicated details, then Clinton and others are in deep shit. (Perjury, subornation of perjury, witness tampering, obstruction of justice, and possibly offering Lewinsky and others jobs if they'll lie, itself a misuse of office.) I could go on, mentioning all the various news items. (I get CNN, CNBC, all the usual networks, MSNBC, Fox News, and so on, so there is a vast amount of news and analysis I hear.) >At the daily press briefing yesterday, McCurry tried to talk about some >welfare plan or something. Whatever. Doesn't matter what it was; I don't >remember -- point is you don't see it on the front page of newspapers today. I watched this live. McCurry is clearly not being informed on details. (Which he's probably just as happy about, as elsewise he could be subpoenaed as a material witness.) >Note the grand jury is set to meet next Tues, not coincidentally, the day >of the SoUA. A week ago everyone was scrambling to find out what was going >to be in it. Nobody cares anymore. I may sit in on it in the press gallery >just to see the dynamic and hear the catcalls. It is a feeding frenzy, that much is for sure. But it's having the effect of triggering more revelations...like the oral sex. phone sex, four other women, etc. revelations. (Hey, when those tapes of Clinton having phone sex with Lewinsky come out...no pun intended...those will be heady times, snicker snicker.) >Where I work, most of the folks are liberals. Before this week, they lent >scant credence to Paula Jones etc. -- the previous Bimbo Eruptions. This >time is different. This time there is serious talk of impeachment: what the >legal standards are, what the Republicans are doing on the Hill, what this >means for Gore. > >This time, it's for real. Yep. He's going down. (No pun intended, as it appears the "servicing" of him in the White House was strictly in the other direction. Clinton and his "Blowjobs for Jobs" program.) --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 02:17:16 +0800 To: tcmay@got.net (Tim May) Subject: Re: Document destruction services (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801241810.MAA05227@manifold.algebra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Tim May wrote: > Come on, Igor, just go out and make a bonfire. I can't see why this is > turning into a major thread, "How Igor can burn a box of documents." > > As for buying H2SO4, of _course_ one can buy it! But it's a really dumb way > to destroy some papers. > > Just burn them. I don't get what the problem is. > > (And don't repeat that they are "hard to burn." Unless they are made of > some other than paper, which is doubtful, they will burn.) Okay, I will try burning it tonight. Will let you know how it works. - Igor. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 01:58:09 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: Executing Kaczynski In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Tim May writes: > BTW, Kaczynski is apparently no crazier that any number of Cypherpunks I > have met, including myself. Recall that a leading Cypherpunk was suspected > for a while as being the Unabomber. Never trust a math PhD. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 05:12:47 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Clinton needs a war with Iraq Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain There are increasing reports, from Washington and Baghdad, that Clinton wants a nice little war action in Iraq, which would have the side effect of boosting his support...or so he hopes. If this happens, it may be time for hackers to use technical means to disrupt the war effort. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Steve Schear Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 06:12:51 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Technology: R.I.P. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain A great article in today's Wired News Daily, by Virginia Postrel, eloquently explains why D.C. wonks are incapable even considering of any meaningful changes to the role or size of governent. http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/9566.html --Steve From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 02:41:15 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: Sucking Sound... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Tim May writes: > But I had been marveling at how the Clinton troubles were being ignored by > the Cypherpunks...I figured we were all so jaded about government and the > criminals who flourish in Washington that there was no point in commenting > on this latest revelation of corruption. (The apparent perjury, suborning > perjury, and witness-tampering, not the affair with Lewinsky, however > tawdry it was.) The whole Washington crowd is making itself obsolete and irrelevant. Sure they can cause great problem for an occasional victim, but if you're lucky enough to stay out fo their way, then it doesn't matter if it's criminal Clinton or crimnal Gore or some republican criminal. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: ghio@temp0195.myriad.ml.org (Matthew Ghio) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 02:54:32 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: State of the Union Address In-Reply-To: <199801230425.FAA19403@basement.replay.com> Message-ID: <199801241849.NAA17756@myriad> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Anonymous wrote: > [1] Grab a totally random sample of 100 high school students. Haul the > students out one at a time and ask them the following questions: [snip] > 11) Michelle mixes one gram of HCl and one half gram of NaOH. Under normal > circumstances, what is produced and in what quantities? > The correct answer is an explosion and a big mess. One student in my high school chemistry class learned this the hard way. :) From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Declan McCullagh Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 03:41:26 +0800 To: Tim May Subject: Re: Sucking Sound... In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980123083544.006a9088@popd.netcruiser> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Tim is right to bring this up. It will have immense impact on the issues the cypherpunks care about. How can Clinton talk about policy proposals (crypto, Net-taxes, etc.) when his presidency is spiraling away? At the daily press briefing yesterday, McCurry tried to talk about some welfare plan or something. Whatever. Doesn't matter what it was; I don't remember -- point is you don't see it on the front page of newspapers today. Note the grand jury is set to meet next Tues, not coincidentally, the day of the SoUA. A week ago everyone was scrambling to find out what was going to be in it. Nobody cares anymore. I may sit in on it in the press gallery just to see the dynamic and hear the catcalls. Where I work, most of the folks are liberals. Before this week, they lent scant credence to Paula Jones etc. -- the previous Bimbo Eruptions. This time is different. This time there is serious talk of impeachment: what the legal standards are, what the Republicans are doing on the Hill, what this means for Gore. This time, it's for real. -Declan At 18:30 -0800 1/23/98, Tim May wrote: >At 8:35 AM -0800 1/23/98, Jonathan Wienke wrote: > >>Has anyone else heard a "giant sucking sound" from the vicinity of the >>White House lately? > >If that was an intentional pun, a good one. > >But I had been marveling at how the Clinton troubles were being ignored by >the Cypherpunks...I figured we were all so jaded about government and the >criminals who flourish in Washington that there was no point in commenting >on this latest revelation of corruption. (The apparent perjury, suborning >perjury, and witness-tampering, not the affair with Lewinsky, however >tawdry it was.) > >It would have been interesting to see the whole process leading up to >Clinton's resignation (next week?) pass without any discussion by us. > >(Actually, I threw in an aside yesterday about "President Gore," but no one >picked up on it.) > >Personally, I think having a crippled and ineffective President is better >than having an activist bozo President Gore, so I'm kind of hoping this >whole affairs takes several more months to unwind. > >--Tim May > > > >The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography >---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- >Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, >ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero >W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, >Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. >"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: ghio@temp0197.myriad.ml.org (Matthew Ghio) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 04:14:57 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: Why no "Banner Ad Eaters"? In-Reply-To: <199801240418.FAA17881@basement.replay.com> Message-ID: <199801242006.PAA20035@myriad> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain ratbert at nym dot alias dot net wrote: > Junkbusters (http://www.junkbusters.com/) offers a personal proxy server > kind of thing that lets you mash just about everything: HTTP headers, user > agent info, referer URL, cookies, etc. It runs on either NT or Unix Yep, I've got it running on www.myriad.ml.org:8000. It works great - the only site I've had problems with so far is nytimes (it tries to set a cookie when you log in as cypherpunks/cypherpunks) From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: John Young Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 05:19:44 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: Sucking Sound... Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980124211026.006f720c@pop.pipeline.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain No, it's the public and press, not the President, who are into denial about the nation's urgent succor. The President's radio address today was solely on Medicare fraud and abuse. http://www.whitehouse.gov/WH/html/1998-01-24.html Lucianne Goldberg's place is down the street and mobbed around the clock with global bloodsuckers. "There is a god," she says, noting fruitless years of the right trying its best to suckerpunch the toke-sucker. Which leads one to wonder who's squeeze gave what to Freeh's on Reno's, Starr's on Freeh's, Reno's on Starr's, that led them to gang up to divert attention to Bill's. Must have been Hillary's, aiming to succotash Al's. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Ian Grigg Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 00:51:30 +0800 To: coderpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: cryptix java AES effort Message-ID: <34CA1B3D.7D1181D1@systemics.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Adam kindly forwarded the AES quest blurbs to interested and/or interesting groups. Some slight clarification is required in the detail of who and what. Adam said: > Systemics provides a BSD licensed (free for commercial and > non-commercial use) java crypto library called cryptix. A slight modification: Systemics provided, in the past tense. It was always the belief of those at Systemics at the time that selling crypto was extremely hard without contacts into big companies (in which case, you weren't selling crypto...). When Cryptix stabilised it was published as freeware with a BSD-style of license, with the hope that other people would pick it up and start to work with it. With the Java library this has happened. There is now a team of between 4 and 10 people, depending on how you count them, scattered across the globe, improving the core Cryptix code. Over the last year or so, we codified the notion of the independant group working around the library as the Cryptix Development Team. That is now spreading through the doco. ( There are a few issues such as copyright and the brand name, which are beyond the scope of this email. Whilst Systemics is not entirely passive in this area, it does not sell Cryptix code, although it might, and does, sell services such as improving Cryptix code. Also, those who work/have worked at Systemics are also part of the team. ) The AES quest is a Cryptix operation. I.e., Cryptix Development Team, and not Systemics. It is a completely unfunded (although sponsorship would be appreciated) and volunteer effort. Whilst the NIST people earn a salary, and most of the cryptographers are employed in this capacity as well, there is no especial interest in employing programmers here, as any rational company will simply wait until the winner is announced, sometime in the next millenium, and then employ an expert at $300 per hour to tell them all about it. Rationally or otherwise, we still need programmers to code up the algorithms and prepare them for submission to NIST. For many cryptographers, it is beyond their efficient capabilities to know much about the downstream discipline, so it makes sense for them to outsource the work to a team like Cryptix, especially as NIST has loaded up the submission requirements with 3 separate implementations. If you're thinking now's the time to branch into Java crypto, read the blurb and mail us. The rational part is that if you start now, you might be earning fat fees in a few years time. > http://www.cs.ucl.ac.uk/staff/I.Brown/cryptix/aes/AES_crypt.html > http://www.cs.ucl.ac.uk/staff/I.Brown/cryptix/aes/AES_prog.html -- iang systemics.com FP: 1189 4417 F202 5DBD 5DF3 4FCD 3685 FDDE on pgp.com From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Dr. Alan Sherman" Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 06:10:48 +0800 To: Crypto UMBC Subject: Barry Smith (FBI) to speak 3:30pm Friday, March 6 at UMBC Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain The wwe page for Barry Smith's talk on encryption policy is now up: http://www.cs.umbc.edu/events then navigate to /spring98/crypto2.shtml Interested parties are encouraged to submit questions via email to sherman@cs.umbc.edu All questions are posted on the www page. See this page for details on a $50 www contest for the best question-gathering www engine. Contestants who are UMBC students may apply for CGI priviledges from Jack Suess (UCS), jack@cs.umbc.edu (For professional www programmers, this contest should be viewed as a request for volunteers to support UMBC's crypto seminar series.) Dr. Alan T. Sherman Associate Professor, Computer Science sherman@cs.umbc.edu From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: guest_mail@online.disney.com Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 11:27:15 +0800 To: Subject: Thank you for registering at Disney.com Message-ID: <34ca9bfc3e7d002@piglet-136.disneyblast.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Welcome, and thank you for registering at Disney.com, the best place to find out what's new at Disney! From now on, all you'll need to enter our contests and sweepstakes are your parent or guardian's permission -- and your Disney.com Registration Name and Password. We suggest you make a note of these names so you don't forget them. If you do forget them, you can use your special, easy-to-remember Disney.com "code word" to find them again. Just to make sure our records are correct, please take a look at the information you gave us: Your first name: cypherpunks Your last name: cypherpunks Your e-mail address: cypherpunks@algebra.com Your parent's e-mail address: cypherpunks@algebra.com The year of your birth: 1990 Your Registration Name: cypherpunks We're sending your parent or guardian an e-mail message just to let them know you've registered with us. Any prizes you win at Disney.com will be awarded to them on your behalf, so they should know you registered. There's a whole world of Disney at your fingertips, so have fun! -- Your friends at Disney.com (c) Disney From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: guest_mail@online.disney.com Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 11:28:22 +0800 To: Subject: Disney.com Registration Notification Message-ID: <34ca9bfc3e7c002@piglet-136.disneyblast.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Dear Parent -- We at Disney.com wanted to let you know that a guest has registered at our Web site as your child. We welcome guests of all ages, and it is our policy to let parents and guardians know when children under 16 send us personal information. This message is only a confirmation -- it does not require a reply if you grant your child permission to be registered at Disney.com. If you'd like to cancel that Registration, please see the instructions below. Here's what we received when your child registered: Your child's first name: cypherpunks Your child's last name: cypherpunks Child's e-mail address: cypherpunks@algebra.com Parent's e-mail address: cypherpunks@algebra.com Your child's year of birth: 1990 Child's Disney.com Registration Name: cypherpunks You might want to ask what your child's Password is and make a note of it. If you or your child lose or forget the Disney.com Registration Name and/or Password, you can retrieve them using the special, easy-to-remember "code word" your child also selected upon registering. If your child wins prizes at Disney.com, you will receive them on his or her behalf. If you'd like to cancel your child's Disney.com Registration, please follow these simple steps: 1. Click the "Reply" button on your e-mail application. 2. Make sure your reply contains the text of this message (including your child's name, e-mail address, and Registration Name). 3. Type "Unsubscribe my child" in the "Subject" area at the top of your message, and send the message back to us. That's it! We welcome you and your child to Disney.com, the best place to find out what's new from Disney! -- Your friends at Disney.com (c) Disney From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 07:54:49 +0800 To: freedom-knights@jetcafe.org Subject: Re: Why no "Banner Ad Eaters"? In-Reply-To: <199801242006.PAA20035@myriad> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain ghio@temp0197.myriad.ml.org (Matthew Ghio) writes: > ratbert at nym dot alias dot net wrote: > > > Junkbusters (http://www.junkbusters.com/) offers a personal proxy server > > kind of thing that lets you mash just about everything: HTTP headers, user > > agent info, referer URL, cookies, etc. It runs on either NT or Unix > > Yep, I've got it running on www.myriad.ml.org:8000. It works great - the > only site I've had problems with so far is nytimes (it tries to set a > cookie when you log in as cypherpunks/cypherpunks) Junkbusters works very nicely for me. I highly recommend it. A warning about cookies: no proxy server I know can stop the server from trying to set the cookie by a) putting a in the header; b) if you have JavaScript enabled (not a good idea), running something like You need to tell the browser to turn off the cookies even if you have an anti-cookie prixy server. Cookies and the NYTIMES subscription: NYTIMES.COM tries to store your userid and password in the cookie with keywords PW= and ID=. Problem is, it tries to encode them using 8-bit characters. Lucky for us, at this time NYTIMES.COM does not check if userid/password are valid, just that they're a part of the cookie!! So, just add these two lines to your junkbuster config: wafer PW=0 wafer ID=0 and nytimes.com will greet you as "0" and let you right in. Sure junkbuster feeds every wafer to every server, but I don't care. If you really want to send "cypherpunks", replace both 0s by the character representation of the hex string a1252e36392c2e2930332bdf. I'm not even trying to mail it verbatim because I know it would get mangled. Another site that uses weakly encrypted cookies is DEJANEWS.COM. For them, I've added these two lines to junkbuster config: wafer GTUID=03.35644.0.0.1145.00000 wafer DNUID=02717fb0f47d3544510927a15805ab3640987332e4ed6e58e78660744bc8320d260963691c27f34ef4b292e93258a7c7a6ea6b78200c6ade8f378833d6d5 This lets you post as cypherpunks@anonymous.crypto.conspirators.int and if and when dejanews locks it out, drop me a line and I'll cook up another one. :-) (Warning: when you post to usenet via dejanews, it adds your ip address to the header; use a proxy.) Hang Chris Lewis by his empty scrotum (he has no balls, or we'd hang him by his balls)! --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Gary Harland Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 10:34:37 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: No Subject Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain rz ** From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 07:58:10 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: Clinton needs a war with Iraq In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Tim May writes: > There are increasing reports, from Washington and Baghdad, that Clinton > wants a nice little war action in Iraq, which would have the side effect of > boosting his support...or so he hopes. > > If this happens, it may be time for hackers to use technical means to > disrupt the war effort. I'm with you, Commander Timmy. What can I do do get some American aggressors killed? Hands off Iraq! --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 02:50:57 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: State of the Union Address In-Reply-To: <199801230425.FAA19403@basement.replay.com> Message-ID: <199801241845.TAA28206@basement.replay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > 7) What are the following government agencies and what are their function? > a) FCC They censor TV and tax your telephone > b) NSA They read your private e-mail and censor crypto publications > c) CIA They run drugs in South America > d) FBI They wiretap your telephone > e) DEA They shoot at the drug runners > f) BATF They burn down churches > g) NTSB They blow up airplanes and blame it on 'terrorists' > h) DOJ They harass Microsoft From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Gary Harland Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 13:08:34 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Uncle Sam's Sticky Fingers Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain For a general run-down on just how much of your privacy the Feds have access to, take a look at the GAO's Investigator's Guide to Sources of Information (http://www.gao.gov). It's under 'Special Publications and Software'. Photocopies of any postal money orders you've bought? Your Amtrak train reservation history? Uncle Sam's got sticky fingers baby! He doesn't throw anything away. ----------------------------------------------------------------- foggy@netisle.net lat:47d36'32" long:122d20'12" "Rather perish than hate and fear, and twice rather perish than make oneself hated and feared." -F. Nietzche- ----------------------------------------------------------------- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 04:09:18 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: NoneRe: How to eliminate liability? In-Reply-To: <19980123052334.20406.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <199801242003.VAA07620@basement.replay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain John M wrote: > Well, what about spreading the information out? Something simple like > doing a matrix rotation on the scrambled data in 8 byte blocks and > splice it by bit to split the data up, add ECC (error correction code) > to it, and spread it to several servers. This way no one server has all > the information necessary to recreate the "offending" information and if > one server gets "hit" (killed), the information can still be regenerated > from the the information and ECC from the other servers. This seems like another variation of the 'reverse secret-sharing' schemes, independently proposed by Jim McCoy, Matt Ghio, and others. Cooper and Birman give a good theoretical introduction at http://cs-tr.cs.cornell.edu/TR/CORNELLCS:TR95-1490 although their scheme uses only the simple XOR instead of a full matrix. Ghio's version is at http://infinity.nus.sg/cypherpunks/dir.archive-97.06.12-97.06.18/0391.html Neither paper goes heavily into linear algebra, but the scheme can easily be extended to martices in a finite field, xor being the special case of mod 2. The idea's been around for awhile; it'd be nice to see a working implementation (hint, hint). From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 13:32:16 +0800 To: Tim May Subject: Re: Executing Kaczynski In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801250527.VAA28005@netcom8.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain [TCM] > >BTW, Kaczynski is apparently no crazier that any number of Cypherpunks I >have met, including myself. hee, hee. > Recall that a leading Cypherpunk was suspected >for a while as being the Unabomber. whoa, are you being facetious here or what? would you care to elaborate on that little tidbit? From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 04:44:08 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: Document destruction services (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801241720.LAA19990@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199801242038.VAA11594@basement.replay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Igor Chudov @ home wrote: > Can one buy concentrated sulfuric acid in this country without being > stormed by jackbooted thugs? I think that I'll need a couple of gallons. > To that I'll need about teh same amount of chalk-like material to > neutralize it after the deed is done. I'd use NaOH instead - after you're done, just leave it sit out, and it will neutralize itself by absorbing carbon dioxide from the atmosphere, dissolving the ink into little crystal structures which look kinda pretty... From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Lucky Green Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 05:57:53 +0800 To: "Igor Chudov @ home" Subject: Re: Document destruction services In-Reply-To: <199801241709.LAA04622@manifold.algebra.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain There are companies that will shred an entire box. In your presence. Box goes in on one side (cardboard and all), little pieces come out the other side. Check the yellow pages. On Sat, 24 Jan 1998, Igor Chudov @ home wrote: > Tim May wrote: > > >I have a box of confidential papers that I do not need. I would prefer not > > >to just throw them away, but to either shred or incinerate them. Due to > > >the sheer size of the box, it is not practical for me to buy and use a home > > >shredder. Would anyone have a suggestion as to what is the best way to > > >destroy them? Aer there any services that do it inexpensively? > > > > Just burn them, either in a fireplace, since it's winter, or in a 55-gallon > > drum. > > This kind of paper does not burn very well. I have tried it. Burning it > in my fireplace will take forever. A drum is an option though. > > - Igor. > > -- Lucky Green PGP v5 encrypted email preferred. "Tonga? Where the hell is Tonga? They have Cypherpunks there?" From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Lucky Green Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 06:08:38 +0800 To: Declan McCullagh Subject: Re: Sucking Sound... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Sat, 24 Jan 1998, Declan McCullagh wrote: > Note the grand jury is set to meet next Tues, not coincidentally, the day > of the SoUA. A week ago everyone was scrambling to find out what was going > to be in it. Nobody cares anymore. I may sit in on it in the press gallery > just to see the dynamic and hear the catcalls. If there is one day I'd stay away from that building it is during the SoUA... :-) -- Lucky Green PGP v5 encrypted email preferred. "Tonga? Where the hell is Tonga? They have Cypherpunks there?" From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Secret Squirrel Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 08:47:31 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Re: Poll shows Bill G. popular & MS monopoly supported [CNN] Message-ID: <5c8b57e84241dd042e19c4e4e4801dca@squirrel> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >Bill -- you *believed* this? :-) Why not? The morons can't even write HTML, even *with* the help of some "HTML authoring kit." If they could we wouldn't be greeted with image maps, unnamed links, unnamed inline images every 5 words, frames, broken CGI scripts... So I, at least, wouldn't find it surprising. The sheeple are blind, naked, and shit stupid. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Declan McCullagh Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 13:23:21 +0800 To: "Attila T. Hun" Subject: Re: attila & maureen on Bubba In-Reply-To: <19980125.033137.attila@hun.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 03:50 +0000 1/25/98, Attila T. Hun wrote: > > the Democratic power bosses who were against him in the > primaries would have done more evaluation of his bimbo > patrol mentality before they committed.

> Good rant, and a surprisingly good one by Maureen. But it's wrong to say that the Dem power bosses were against Clinton in the primaries. I worked for Jerry Brown's campaign staff in '92 and can testify that they were lined up in Clinton's camp ever since his tenure at the DLC. -Declan From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: pgut001@cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann) Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 19:23:02 +0800 To: cryptography@c2.net Subject: Update on New Zealand crypto policy Message-ID: <88564079931716@cs26.cs.auckland.ac.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain As part of my recent effort to prepare a useful home page after 2 years of having instead a mini text adventure, I've finally got around to finishing off the web page containing the recent history of, and current state of, New Zealands crypto export policy as decided by several intelligence agencies and a supporting cast of bungling bureaucrats. This policy has resulted in New Zealand enjoying the dubious distinction of having the strictest export controls on earth, with everything ranging from crypto hardware down to software, library books, computer magazines, and journals being restricted from export. It's not even possible for a university to publish academic research without prior permission from a government agency, and the requirements for obtaining this permission are structured to ensure that they can never be fulfilled. You can find the information on: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/policy/ The page also contains links to a sizeable collection of never-before- published documents including correspondence with relevant government agencies, and media reports on the situation. If you're going to send me mail about this, please note that I'll be at Usenix in San Antonio for the next week, so it'll take awhile for me to reply. My PGP key's at the bottom of my home page if you need it. Peter. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jonathan Wienke Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 20:55:28 +0800 To: Tim May Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980125034213.006c389c@popd.netcruiser> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 At 01:06 PM 1/24/98 -0800, Tim May wrote: > >There are increasing reports, from Washington and Baghdad, that Clinton >wants a nice little war action in Iraq, which would have the side effect of >boosting his support...or so he hopes. Can you say "Wag The Dog," boys & girls? -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Business Security 5.5 iQA/AwUBNMslFMJF0kXqpw3MEQKZHQCgpVfszPqVjIr04ViTQb5WNMyMEiMAoIqA vOfsUOAs2wgjgCmo39lbx/cf =GM7f -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Attila T. Hun" Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 12:00:12 +0800 To: cypherpunks Subject: attila & maureen on Bubba Message-ID: <19980125.033137.attila@hun.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Attila & Maureen on Clinton

         
   
Clinton's Achilles' Heel
well, this may finally do it for Clinton. if he was not so stupid, he would pack out of white house in the middle of the night, pick up his ill-gotten gains from Switzerland, or wherever he has them stashed, and disappear into the night --but, no, he might be forced to settle for Hillary-- which would be revenge served up cold --they deserve each other.

if the Asian crisis was not in full rage, and the US market shaky with worry, we could afford to dump Clinton in the dumpster --unfortunately, the spectacle of an American President actually being successfully impeached will probably blow the American and European markets right out of the water --and the American economy with it --that just might be Clinton's lasting legacy. he may deserve that footnote in history, but the rest of us certainly do not.

the NWO powers behind our "throne" may have needed a patsy after their main man became unelectable, but they certainly could have done better than bubba. you'd think they, or even the Democratic power bosses who were against him in the primaries would have done more evaluation of his bimbo patrol mentality before they committed.

even I was a little skeptical of the "allegations" in the book "Primary Colors" (particularly to the Hillary affair) and I have been more than a little skeptical of the revelations of the "slave" courier/purveyors who have surfaced, but there may be more fire than smoke. it was certainly understandable why Joe Kline wrote the book as "Anonymous" --he must have been a cypherpunk-- or at least he should also have been using our anonymous remailers and nontracable digital cash.

God save us from Al Bore. he needed to have a Spiro Agnew in his future, but Janet Reno saved his skin. he is a decent sort, but I just can not handle the left-leaning socialist son-of-a-bitch with his sanctimonious looks --he needs a circuit riding preacher's floppy hat and a mule-- even if he did go to Harvard.

on the other hand, if Al Bore goes down, and they can not agree on a vice-president before Clinton either bales or is smoked out, we would have Newt --that might have been acceptable, except I think Newt either sold out or has been intimidated.

    attila out for the count....

January 25, 1998
NYTimes OpEd Columnist
LIBERTIES / By MAUREEN DOWD
Not Suitable for Children

WASHINGTON -- There have been so many people rushing to TV studios in this giddy and cataclysmic week to talk about sex that networks are bringing makeup artists out of retirement.

The palaver about whether a 21-year-old White House intern had a particular kind of sex with the President has gotten so graphic that CNN's "Inside Politics" Friday featured a warning that the segment might not be suitable for young viewers.

Let's review what we've learned so far.

The President a liar? Knew that.

The President a philanderer? Knew that.

The President reckless in the satisfaction of his appetites? Knew that.

The President would say anything and hurt anybody to get out of a mess? Knew that.

Married men cheat? Knew that.

Married men cheat with young women? Knew that.

Married men who cheat with young women lie about it? Knew that.

Hillary isn't throwing Bill's stuff out on the White House lawn because she is as committed to their repugnant arrangement as he is? Knew that.

The Clinton team -- those great feminists -- devising ways to discredit women who come forward with reports of Clinton peccadilloes? Knew that.

The President and his minions dissembling and splitting hairs and playing semantic games and taking forever to find the documents until our attention wanders? Knew that.

The President has the moxie to pick out a dress for a woman? Didn't know that.

In the delirium of the scandal, something remarkable occurred. The President reportedly admitted, in a deposition to Paula Jones's lawyers, that, oh, yeah, by the way, he did have that affair with Gennifer Flowers, which he so adamantly denied during the '92 campaign.

I still remember James Carville ranting at reporters for being low enough to pay any mind to her, calling it cash for trash.

How can he go back on TV and defend Mr. Clinton in another sex scandal by once more trying to throw doubt on another damning tape?

At least Mr. Carville looked sheepish. Mr. Clinton's famous rapid-response team seems to have bimbo-battle fatigue.

The tapes of Monica Lewinsky, now 24, seem believable, not least because we heard it all before with Gennifer Flowers. Helping to get her a new job, telling her to say nothing went on if anyone asked. "Deny it," Mr. Clinton told Ms. Flowers on tape. "That's all. I mean, I expect them to come look into it and interview you and everything. But I just think if everybody's on record denying it, you've got no problem." The whole modus operandi is right there.

Also, why did Vernon Jordan become a patron to a lowly Pentagon assistant if she was nothing special to the President?

The reality that looms before the American people is not the impeachment of this President. It is the annulment of this President. He has finally determined his own place in history. He will be remembered as the priapic President. The Oval Office appears to be the bachelor pad of a married man who is the Commander in Chief. Like all addicts, this one is surrounded by enablers.

Many Americans had accepted Mr. Clinton as a charming rogue. But the portrait that may be pieced together from the confessions of his willing and unwilling women now looks utterly uncharming. Ms. Lewinsky's nickname for him -- "the big creep" -- could stick.

The Clinton doctrine may turn out to be nothing more than a view of the relationship of oral sex -- or Oval sex -- to adultery. CNN's Judy Woodruff reported that religious scholars could find no biblical basis for Mr. Clinton's purported claim to an Arkansas trooper that the Bible says oral sex is not cheating.

Ted Koppel actually began "Nightline" Thursday with the following sentence: "It may . . . ultimately come down to the question of whether oral sex does or does not constitute adultery."

Well, it sure isn't fidelity.

When Mr. Clinton says now that he can't answer questions about sex, lies and tapes because he must hurry back to governance, people will want him to hurry back to self-governance instead.

   
         
From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Gillogly Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 01:25:16 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Tossing your cookies [Re: Why no "Banner Ad Eaters"?] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <34CB736A.CC97CCEF@acm.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Heinz-Juergen Keller skribis: > Just a silly? question on cookies: > What will happen if I just link cookies.txt to /dev/null ? > Is there anything speaking against this solution? Works fine on Unix and Linux systems if you're not a cookie fan: the remote sites think you've eaten their cookies, but you've merely frisbeed them into the bit bin. It's better than telling Netscape you want to be asked: some sites set a dozen cookies per hit, seems like, and saying "no" to each gets immediately tedious. If you tell Netscape to reject them, some sites won't serve you the content. Setting the browser to accept everything and linking cookies.txt to /dev/null works well for me. -- Jim Gillogly Highday, 4 Solmath S.R. 1998, 17:05 12.19.4.15.14, 5 Ix 12 Muan, Eighth Lord of Night From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Attila T. Hun" Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 17:49:39 +0800 To: Tim May Subject: Re: Clinton needs a war with Iraq In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <19980125.091156.attila@hun.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- on or about 980124:1306, in , Tim May was purported to have expostulated to perpetuate an opinion: >There are increasing reports, from Washington and Baghdad, that Clinton >wants a nice little war action in Iraq, which would have the side effect >of boosting his support...or so he hopes. > since the Korean war, American involvement in foreign wars, or the war effort, has escalated in relationship to the needs of the economy --the war effort boosts industrial utilization --eg money and the economy-- and Americans vote with their pocketbooks. Clinton just might be dumb enough to consider a war footing would take the collective minds off his incredible stupidity --the man is literally being led around by his crank; bubba must have heard too many stories about hairy palms... as Maureen said in the Times, most Americans had accepted that Clinton was a charming rogue --but this last round is exposing the callous disregard for not only women, but truth and respect for privilege-- that is the end of confidence, and like any relationship, the loss of confidence is self-destructive. the concern should be for the troops who could be left standing in the desert whistling Dixie... Bush was able to rally support from foreign powers, which led to domestic support, primarily due to his good report and respect from foreign leaders --bubba is a laughing stock; who will follow his flag. if the tapes are even close to real, Clinton needs to take helicopter one to Andrews and fade into history --NOW. the thought of Al Bore in the Presidency is appalling --but it certainly can not be any worse than bubba. al bore will be intractable with the Republican Congress, but so what else is new? --at least they can not create bad law! >If this happens, it may be time for hackers to use technical means to >disrupt the war effort. I frankly dont believe you made that suggestion --the damage would not be to the government, but to our fellow citizens who have been ordered to commence action. I did not agree with what I was orderer to do, but I did not place the lives of my dependent troops in danger for my beliefs --I resigned the commission eventually and have been a foe of their dishonest foreign policy ever since. regardless of the immorality and stupidity of Clinton, there is no justification, and certainly no honour, for permitting KIA American troops to be dumped into the spectacle of being dragged through the streets of Somalia, etc. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: latin1 Comment: No safety this side of the grave. Never was; never will be iQBVAwUBNMsH+7R8UA6T6u61AQF5uQH9EfDnTjZWhWqXvagb8a56WPVjyGSlD7zA KNvsPeNppG4SDLbTweQCBcVnVd3y7Yx+z1z54K9Qc3RmBPcXk/Gy3Q== =Dtra -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Gregory L. Robinson" Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 23:39:30 +0800 To: Subject: Unabomber's Background Message-ID: <199801251525.HAA21906@toad.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Could someone please post Mr. Kaczynski's (sp?) education background and some bio information or point me towards a website that contains some? Greg Robinson From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Alan Olsen Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 03:18:48 +0800 To: Jim Gillogly Subject: Re: Tossing your cookies [Re: Why no "Banner Ad Eaters"?] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980125110902.03834b80@clueserver.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 09:16 AM 1/25/98 -0800, Jim Gillogly wrote: > >Heinz-Juergen Keller skribis: >> Just a silly? question on cookies: >> What will happen if I just link cookies.txt to /dev/null ? >> Is there anything speaking against this solution? > >Works fine on Unix and Linux systems if you're not a cookie fan: >the remote sites think you've eaten their cookies, but you've >merely frisbeed them into the bit bin. > >It's better than telling Netscape you want to be asked: some >sites set a dozen cookies per hit, seems like, and saying "no" >to each gets immediately tedious. If you tell Netscape to reject >them, some sites won't serve you the content. Setting the browser >to accept everything and linking cookies.txt to /dev/null works >well for me. You can also make the cookie.txt file read only. Both of these options only make the cookies valid for the current session. They do not make them go away all together. Some of the site that cookie bomb do so out of ignorance. Old versions of Apache have such cookie bombing set by default. (They changed the name of the option soon after. The option was originally called "Mod_cookies" and people left it figuring that if they disabled it, they could not use cookies. Actually it is a method for tracking usage patterns within a site. The module was renamed to reflect that.) I am willing to bet that most of the sites that send cookies are not even using the data they provide. Few log file crunchers can make use of the cookie data from user tracking in any worthwhile manner. Any company that relies on cookies to hold onto membership information is foolish. (Cookie files only hold 300 entries. Surf enough and the membership infomation gets washed away with the tide.) Cookies are not needed for storefronts. There are better ways to accomplish the same thing. (There are CGI storefronts that save the information on files on the server, for instance.) I can understand why cookies were thought up in the first place. Much of cgi programming is overcoming the stateless nature of http. Unfortunatly, the idea was not thought out that well... --- | "That'll make it hot for them!" - Guy Grand | |"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmermann unites all| Disclaimer: | | mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!" | Ignore the man | |`finger -l alano@teleport.com` for PGP 2.6.2 key | behind the keyboard.| | http://www.ctrl-alt-del.com/~alan/ |alan@ctrl-alt-del.com| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Bill Stewart Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 04:04:26 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Re: Burning papers In-Reply-To: <199801251819.MAA17338@manifold.algebra.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980125115620.007d0680@popd.ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 12:19 PM 1/25/98 -0600, Igor Chudov @ home wrote: >Just for your information, I _WAS_ mistaken. The papers burned really >well. My confusion about burnability of papers arose because in the >past I tried to burn magazines, and not papers and letters. The whole >big box is gone, after two burns. Burning is unquestionably better than >shredding. There are shredders, and then there are shredders. The SOHO-sized shredders that just cut things into ribbons aren't very thorough (and it's been demonstrated that documents shredded that way can be reassembled by sufficiently large numbers of Iranian college students) but they're good prep for burning the papers. On the other hand, the cross-cut shredders that leave flakes no more than 1/8" rectangles or even smaller chad are good enough for classified documents. Of course, if your documents are on floppy disks, any shredder that won't jam on them does a pretty good job :-) Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Heinz-Juergen Keller Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 19:04:38 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: Why no "Banner Ad Eaters"? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- "Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM" wrote: >Junkbusters works very nicely for me. I highly recommend it. >A warning about cookies: no proxy server I know can >stop the server from trying to set the cookie by >a) putting a >in the header; [SNIP] Installed Junkbuster yesterday with a blocklist that seems to work o.k. Just a silly? question on cookies: What will happen if I just link cookies.txt to /dev/null ? Is there anything speaking against this solution? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Heinz-Juergen Keller hjk@[mail.]ddorf.rhein-ruhr.de hjkeller@gmx.[net,de] 2047bit PGP Public Key : http://www.ddorf.rhein-ruhr.de/~hjk/ MD5 Fingerprint: 4d33126fbf8c1bcd8e96ba90d99f0bdc - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBNMsaoyZWWJBRAP1VAQE5Ugf7Bum+X0GRqAkGvp7Ir9MzpWI6XmlE01dc TrnG1ltkhIoU7JWTSNimsBeA0Pdw0fZZJpHhyNowCb0zR/H/J7/I/ksHUJWrr+/I eSRcO6Kwn8QlgjpDO+AfZiGtjtcm6ogPQhpLmyTFHRj6gNU+ksYTka6cC46zVfTI oWPx1vNLMZrG7OoMep61d9RQRSIIQQRzG3Ksc/5fwldmF7IWH5+9VnOncuT7ZJLm 59rvqyO4R9CaymI47jUTfpe+XNJzZR3PHix2OBiRtiXFgJsxc014Qk/lkVDiJH8T g+B5nE1N9xN7PqIAmMW7kuFaq4d4QhjMvYxGfa5ZCd8aPxhi5oLQMg== =2UCV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 02:23:45 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Burning papers Message-ID: <199801251819.MAA17338@manifold.algebra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Just for your information, I _WAS_ mistaken. The papers burned really well. My confusion about burnability of papers arose because in the past I tried to burn magazines, and not papers and letters. The whole big box is gone, after two burns. Burning is unquestionably better than shredding. - Igor. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 02:10:03 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: Unabomber's Background In-Reply-To: <199801251525.HAA21906@toad.com> Message-ID: <2kiVJe55w165w@bwalk.dm.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain "Gregory L. Robinson" writes: > Could someone please post Mr. Kaczynski's (sp?) education background and > some bio information or point me towards a website that contains some? It's _Dr._ Kazinski. He's got a math phd. Who else's got one on this list? (He used to be a tenure-track associate professor at U California Berkeley) --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 02:32:26 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: Tossing your cookies [Re: Why no "Banner Ad Eaters"?] In-Reply-To: <34CB736A.CC97CCEF@acm.org> Message-ID: <1yiVJe59w165w@bwalk.dm.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Jim Gillogly writes: > Heinz-Juergen Keller skribis: > > Just a silly? question on cookies: > > What will happen if I just link cookies.txt to /dev/null ? > > Is there anything speaking against this solution? > > Works fine on Unix and Linux systems if you're not a cookie fan: > the remote sites think you've eaten their cookies, but you've > merely frisbeed them into the bit bin. > > It's better than telling Netscape you want to be asked: some > sites set a dozen cookies per hit, seems like, and saying "no" > to each gets immediately tedious. If you tell Netscape to reject > them, some sites won't serve you the content. Setting the browser > to accept everything and linking cookies.txt to /dev/null works > well for me. microsoft.com, firefly.com, and parts of yahoo.com wee the only sites I found that 1) try to set the cookie, 2) test if the cookies is what they expected, 3) refuse to proceed if the cookie isn't what they expected it to be. Here are a few more neat wafers that I use with junkbuster: wafer Apache=0 wafer cookieswork=1 # .hotwired.com randomhacker cypherpunks (cypherpunks was already taken # and password wasn't cypherpunks) wafer u=randomhacker:XXXrHYVJ4gKTg:888306120: # barnes and noble cypherpunks wafer userid=21200U41QE # .ffly.com v2 random_q_hacker cypherpunks (again, cypherpunks already taken # with a different password) wafer NAME=random%5Fq%5Fhacker wafer ALIAS=random%5Fq%5Fhacker wafer FIREFLYTICKETV2=a3d11c2224f036b8c5da227f07ac7694b3430734d16595e7ff09c9216dbac8af6 wafer FFLYID=381916 # .ffly.com v3 wafer USERNAME=random$5Fq$5Fhacker wafer USERID=4031415 wafer USERKEY=rrL2ECYFs8Q wafer PASSWORD=rrL2ECYFs8Q # I haven't quite gotten this wafer to work: # .firefly.net random_q_hacker(.firefly):cypherpunks (won't let user=password) wafer FIREFLYTICKETV3 XWHKLLTVMLTVYWVJEHUNMHa\XVLHNHLGHIVRVUKKKKKK # .yahoo.com cypherpunks:cypherpunks wafer Y=v=1&n=fh5fme4ro4p10&l=2of74hfkdai/o&p=f1s022r2030r wafer M=dp=sum&lg=us wafer T=z=34caa94c While this is tangentially crypto-relevant, let's start a thread on feeding wafers to various tracking software to convince it that the same cypherpunks entity is doing all of our browsing. Can several of people agree on feeding the same values of the following wafers: # .pathfinder.com wafer PFUID=ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff # webcrawler.com wafer AnonTrack=FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF # RealMedia (NYTimes et al) wafer RMID=0 # .hotwired.com wafer p_uniqid=0osqlPoOiF7XKIGM6D wafer s_uniqid=0osqlPoOiF7XKIGM6D wafer unique_id=1668800885692100 wafer NGUserID=ced54487-134-885708087-1 wafer session-id=0 wafer session-id-time=0 # .geocities.com wafer GeoStitial=885690000 wafer GeoId=0 wafer EGSOFT_ID=0 wafer CFID=0 # .four11.com wafer Urid=68847000 wafer DOL=0 wafer DTRACK=0 Protect your privacy by confusing the software that would violate it. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: ghio@temp0199.myriad.ml.org (Matthew Ghio) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 03:00:22 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: NYTimes web cookies Message-ID: <199801251852.NAA20393@myriad> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > Cookies and the NYTIMES subscription: NYTIMES.COM tries to store your > userid and password in the cookie with keywords PW= and ID=. Problem is, > it tries to encode them using 8-bit characters. Lucky for us, at this time > NYTIMES.COM does not check if userid/password are valid, just that they're > a part of the cookie!! So, just add these two lines to your junkbuster > config: > > wafer PW=0 > wafer ID=0 > > and nytimes.com will greet you as "0" and let you right in. It doesn't check the PW or ID at all except the first time you log in. After that it generates a new cookie titled NPLCNYT and that is the only cookie it checks; the PW and ID are not required to be there at all. If you delete the NPLCNYT cookie, it will check the PW/ID and generate a new one. An example cookie is below: NPLCNYT=AAAALw>AAAAAX9IUUWiPhfALqHZuSh2mUM0yzNOwGRReAAAAAsAAAAAY3lwaGVycHVua3M> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^|||||##### The characters marked ^^^ appear to be random, and change every time a new cookie is generated. The ones marked ##### appear to encode the originating IP address, and ||||| appears to be date/time. The rest don't seem to change (tho I only tried ID=cypherpunks PW=cypherpunks). The server will still accept the cookie if your IP address changes. There does seem to be some sort of checksum on the data. While the relatively small area it uses to store the time and IP address wouldn't seem to leave much room for this, I wasn't able to find a spoofed cookie that it would accept - perhaps the checksum is included in the 'random' part. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: David Honig Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 06:09:55 +0800 To: "John M" Subject: Re: How to eliminate liability? In-Reply-To: <19980123220714.7351.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980125135447.007c1100@otc.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 02:07 PM 1/23/98 PST, John M wrote: >but I hadn't heard of it. I >have been meaning to buy Schneier's book... Still waiting for my Dobb's CDROM too.. >meaningful information without the other parts. Because of this, I have >been asking myself, how could any one datahaven operator be held >responsible for holding classified, porn, or other information if they >only have a meaningless slice of it? > >Perhaps this is more a legal question (even more out of my league) than >anything... Any comments? I think the essential issue is to convince the courts that running a cryptoarchive background process (distributed Eternity server) makes you a "Common Carrier", with all the legal protection you get from that classification. I agree with you and Bill that this is feasible once the legal profession gets a clue.. maybe in our lifetimes :-) The worst-case situation is a very widely dispersed government denying that kind of common-carrier status. Imagine congress signing something giving the UN that power, then declaring all encrypted-anonymous-archives illegal. Send a few blue-hats or a cruise missile to take out the non-signers. Back home: "who cares, just the UN protecting the children, so what if a Cayman casino or Togo bank gets toasted. No one was hurt, and the world is safe for imbiciles" In such a scenario you could take other steps. Steganography helps keep you from being noticed. Bursty-communications patterns are harder to stop/trace. CDROMs are readily manufactured hidden, and disguised. Perhaps the cypherpunk edition of Netscape will include anonymous remailing / traffic mixing services by default :-) David Honig honig@alum.mit.edu --------------------------------------------------- If we can prevent the government from wasting the labours of the people under the pretense of caring for them, they will be happy. -TJ From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 04:14:27 +0800 To: bill.stewart@pobox.com (Bill Stewart) Subject: Re: Burning papers In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980125115620.007d0680@popd.ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: <199801252007.OAA19838@manifold.algebra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Bill Stewart wrote: > Of course, if your documents are on floppy disks, any shredder that > won't jam on them does a pretty good job :-) I burned a couple of floppies, too. Actually I am not sure how good job would shredding of floppies do. I assume that bits and pieces of data can still be recovered... But hopefully no one would care enough. - Igor. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 06:06:00 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: NYTimes web cookies In-Reply-To: <199801252000.VAA04977@basement.replay.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) writes: > ghio@temp0199.myriad.ml.org (Matthew Ghio) wrote: > > > It doesn't check the PW or ID at all except the first time you log in. > > After that it generates a new cookie titled NPLCNYT and that is the only > > cookie it checks; the PW and ID are not required to be there at all. > > If you delete the NPLCNYT cookie, it will check the PW/ID and generate > > a new one. An example cookie is below: > > > > NPLCNYT=AAAALw>AAAAAX9IUUWiPhfALqHZuSh2mUM0yzNOwGRReAAAAAsAAAAAY3lwaGVycHVu > > I put this wafer in my junkbuster-configfile and disabled all other cookies, > and NYTimes let me in without asking for a password, but after I read a few > articles, the site started behaving strangely, where the server would seem > to hang on certain pages, taking forever to send the html. I played around with nytimes.com some more and I'm certain that it does check for the presense the ID= in the cookie (but not the value). Apparently the following 2 is necessary and sufficient: NPLCNYT=(whatever it tried to set it to) ID=(anything; I used ID=0 to save bandwidth) With ID=0, it says "welcome, 0" of the first page and I see no problems. > Interesting though. Maybe we should hold a cypherpunks 'potluck' where > everyone trades cookies. :) A good idea. here are more of mine: #.reference.com wafer userid=cypherpunks@bwalk.dm.com wafer passwd=cypherpunks (I haven't been able to register cypherpunks@algebra.com on reference.com) # amazon.com cypherpunks@algebra.com cypherpunks wafer group_discount_cookie=F wafer session-id=1451-4798095-404463 wafer session-id-time=886320000 wafer ubid-main=3578-1328899-434066 wafer cf=c90fe571f7b5f873 By the way, junkbuster does NOT strip cookies in secure http. Be careful. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Adam Shostack Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 06:33:50 +0800 To: nobody@replay.com Subject: Re: NYTimes web cookies In-Reply-To: <199801252000.VAA04977@basement.replay.com> Message-ID: <199801252224.RAA28834@homeport.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Anonymous wrote: | Interesting though. Maybe we should hold a cypherpunks 'potluck' where | everyone trades cookies. :) .nytimes.com TRUE / FALSE 946684173 RDB C802002E1B000055 5301026495323B0100000000000000 Anyone figured out how to get Amazon's Group-discount cookie to set to true? :) Incidentally, I edit my file something between daily and weekly, in the hopes of generating bizare and worthless data for them. I also spend time clicking random links while on the phone to help fill my cookie file with junk. Adam -- "It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -Hume From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Steve Schear Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 09:50:02 +0800 To: John Young Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 6:47 PM -0500 1/25/98, John Young wrote: >Thanks to Axel Horns and Ulf Möller we offer an excerpt >of the draft European Parliament report on global >surveillance cited in news reports recently: > > An Appraisal of Technolgies of Political Control >Scientific and Technological Options Assessment > Working Document (Consultation version) > PE 166 499 > Luxembourg, 6 January 1998 The report makes mention of built-in surveillence feature in CCITT compliant ISDN products. ""What is not widely known is that built in to the international CCITT protocol is the ability to take phones 'off hook' and listen into conversations occurring near the phone, without the user being aware that it is happening." Seems like an awful lot of CP using ISDN gear should beware. Many ISDN devices are firmware based. Might this not spawn a number of good crack projects to remove this feature from popular products. I use an Ascend P25. The docs say its CCITT compliant. Sooo does it enable this form of surveillence? Enquiring minds want to know. The draft paper referneces an article in SGR Newsletter, No.4, 1993. Is this a reference to Scientists for Global Responsibility? Where can I read a copy of this article? --Steve From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Steve Schear Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 10:11:13 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: NYTimes web cookies In-Reply-To: <199801251852.NAA20393@myriad> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 1:52 PM -0500 1/25/98, Matthew Ghio wrote: >> Cookies and the NYTIMES subscription: NYTIMES.COM tries to store your >> userid and password in the cookie with keywords PW= and ID=. Problem is, >> it tries to encode them using 8-bit characters. Lucky for us, at this time >> NYTIMES.COM does not check if userid/password are valid, just that they're >> a part of the cookie!! So, just add these two lines to your junkbuster >> config: >> >> wafer PW=0 >> wafer ID=0 >> >> and nytimes.com will greet you as "0" and let you right in. > > >It doesn't check the PW or ID at all except the first time you log in. >After that it generates a new cookie titled NPLCNYT and that is the only >cookie it checks; the PW and ID are not required to be there at all. >If you delete the NPLCNYT cookie, it will check the PW/ID and generate >a new one. An example cookie is below: > >NPLCNYT=AAAALw>AAAAAX9IUUWiPhfALqHZuSh2mUM0yzNOwGRReAAAAAsAAAAAY3lwaGVycHVua3M> Anyone have something similar for the WSJ? --Steve From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Bill Stewart Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 15:09:27 +0800 To: RPK New Zealand Ltd MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I was amused to receive two mail messages back-to-back, one from Peter Gutmann talking about New Zealand having one of the strictest formal export controls in the world, and one from RPK New Zealand talking about how their encryption product is not export-controlled because it's from NZ, not the US, and how their RPK Fast Public Key Encryptonite(tm) Engine is the strongest crypto in the world. Either they haven't bothered asking for export permission, or they asked in such a way that the export bureaucrats didn't notice it was crypto and regulated by their crypto export preventers, or their crypto somehow falls through the cracks, e.g. by using an algorithm with public keys shorter than 512 bits (works for ECC, not RSA) and private keys shorter than 40 bits (or 41 on a good day), or perhaps passes the "snake oil test" for export permission. I suppose it's possible that the NZ Export Bureaucrats have lightened up since Peter's last dealings with them, but it's not likely. >--------------- The mail, referencing www.invisimail.com >RPK New Zealand Ltd. in a joint venture with Virtually Online Ltd. >has released RPK InvisiMail, a standards-based e-mail security >application for use with Internet mail software (SMTP/POP3). >The product offers the strongest encryption available anywhere in >the world. Since it was built outside the United States, >it is also available all over the world with strong encryption. >RPK InvisiMail is also the easiest product of its type >to setup and use which makes it quite unique. ========= From Peter Gutmann's web page This policy has resulted in New Zealand enjoying the dubious distinction of having the strictest export controls on earth, with everything ranging from crypto hardware down to software, library books, computer magazines, and journals being restricted from export. It's not even possible for a university to publish academic research without prior permission from a government agency, and the requirements for obtaining this permission are structured to ensure that they can never be fulfilled. You can find the information on: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/policy/ ============================== Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: John Young Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 07:56:00 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Technolgies of Political Control Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980125234726.00bae108@pop.pipeline.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Thanks to Axel Horns and Ulf Möller we offer an excerpt of the draft European Parliament report on global surveillance cited in news reports recently: An Appraisal of Technolgies of Political Control Scientific and Technological Options Assessment Working Document (Consultation version) PE 166 499 Luxembourg, 6 January 1998 The report covers: - The Role & Function of Political Control Technologies - Recent Trends and Innovations - Developments in Surveillance Technologies - Innovations in Crowd Control Weapons - New Prison Control Systems - Interrogation, Torture Techniques and Technologies - Regulation of Horizontal Proliferation - Further Research See excerpt: http://jya.com/atpc.htm Printed copies are available from the staff of the British MEP Glyn Ford (tel +322 2843748 fax +322 2849059, jford@europarl.eu.int). From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 10:22:33 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: Technolgies of Political Control (fwd) Message-ID: <199801260213.UAA25274@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Hi, I would like to suggest that you reconfigure your editor so it actualy puts in LF/CR's so that it doesn't show up as one long line... Any editing errors are mine. Forwarded message: > Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 17:46:02 -0800 > From: Steve Schear > Subject: Re: Technolgies of Political Control > At 6:47 PM -0500 1/25/98, John Young wrote: > >Thanks to Axel Horns and Ulf Möller we offer an excerpt > >of the draft European Parliament report on global > >surveillance cited in news reports recently: > > > > An Appraisal of Technolgies of Political Control > >Scientific and Technological Options Assessment > > Working Document (Consultation version) > > PE 166 499 > > Luxembourg, 6 January 1998 > > The report makes mention of built-in surveillence feature in CCITT compliant ISDN products. ""What is not widely known is that built in to the international CCITT protocol is the ability to take phones 'off hook' and listen into conversations occurring near the phone, without the user being aware that it is happening." Seems like an awful lot of CP using ISDN gear should beware. Many ISDN devices are firmware based. Might this not spawn a number of good crack projects to remove this feature from popular products. I use an Ascend P25. The docs say its CCITT compliant. Sooo does it enable this form of surveillence? Enquiring minds want to know. > All phones can be forced to do this. Even POTS. It's a commenly known 'feature' by most folks in the telecom industry for the last 30+ years. Commen defeat is to leave the phones unplugged or place them next to a radio or television. Then if you want to have a secure conversation go to another room, or better yet take a long walk in your neighborhood at low-traffic times. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "John Kelsey" Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 10:21:35 +0800 To: "cypherpunks" Subject: Re: Why no "Banner Ad Eaters"? Message-ID: <199801260212.UAA29879@email.plnet.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- [ To: cypherpunks ## Date: 01/25/98 ## Subject: Re: Why no "Banner Ad Eaters"? ] >Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 23:53:19 -0800 >From: Bill Stewart >Subject: Re: Why no "Banner Ad Eaters"? >At 11:16 PM 1/22/98 -0800, Wei Dai wrote: >>It seems to me that blocking ads is no different from >>blocking porn. All of the technology being developed for the >>latter purpose (PICS for example) will eventually be used >>for the former. >With both PICS ratings for web pages and the new TV ratings, >somehow the ratings only apply to the program and not the >ads. After all, if each TV commercial had to be separately >rated, people would rapidly develop equipment to autoblock >commercials, and that just wouldn't do. Note that there's a difference in incentives, here, too. Porn sites in most countries, including the US, have some strong legal and social incentives to rate themselves honestly, and probably have relatively little financial incentive to rate themselves inaccurately. (Think of the hassles you get with things like disputed credit card payments made by someone's 14-year-old kid.) This makes the blocking software's job a lot easier. I just can't see what incentive advertisers have to co-operate with rating systems of this kind. How would it improve your bottom line? Advertisers are likely to get paid either on the basis of number of people who see the ad, or on the basis of number of people who click on the ad. In either case, letting your ad be casually filtered out is just not going to make you any money. About the only incentive I can see for letting your ads be blocked is the desire not to make too many ad recipients mad at the advertiser. (Presumably, this is the reason why spam is almost never used by reputable companies--they don't want to make too many potential customers angry.) But this doesn't seem to apply to webpage ads, which manage not to be quite intrusive enough to enrage their targets. >Unfortunately, you're probably right, though providers and >advertisers who really want their messages to get through >will find ways to do it. The current banners are nice, >friendly implementations in that they're easy to identify >and block; newer ones will just be sneakier. I assume that, sooner or later, the advertisements will be woven in so well that it's all-but-impossible to get rid of them without also getting rid of the useful content you're trying to read/see/use. [Good comments deleted.] >Alternatively, >they may go to clickthrough payment models - the web page >owner only gets paid when people click on the ad, though >perhaps at a higher rate than current "impressions". Maybe. Either way, in the long run, ads that don't seem to be generating sales aren't going to be renewed. Being able to count clicks gives you one metric for this; another is completed sales from those clicks. This defines why web page owners that are making lots of ad revenue will have lots of incentive to make people who use their services look at and respond to their ads. People will try various things to make this happen. If none of them work, then ad-supported pages will cease to exist. Many of the services now supported by ads have other good revenue models. Sites like Dejanews and Altavista have enough name-recognition to do things like sell custom searching or research from their Usenet and Web databases, or provide statistical customer profiles that don't reveal customer identities but are still of use to marketers. >Bill >Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com Note: I read CP-LITE instead of the whole list. Please CC me on replies. - --John Kelsey, kelsey@counterpane.com / kelsey@plnet.net NEW PGP print = 5D91 6F57 2646 83F9 6D7F 9C87 886D 88AF -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBNMwNTiZv+/Ry/LrBAQH6KgP/c0o0ZiraSW7PbmDK6YQh+D3wp48cIn3S manFeca05yuoJDvs6ZKO85ycvVTvVZXBP8tvVDDAMD35CEfxGMNc/0bk1hqS/rx9 /gkHy/OYeKvcSscP9KwWTRtGu+DhHxjNqxOuFFgw6QBCxA5KDdUakF64POlYbi/2 +/kMlWS3on0= =QsU7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Steve Schear Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 01:26:08 +0800 To: Jim Choate Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 8:13 PM -0600 1/25/98, Jim Choate wrote: >Hi, > >I would like to suggest that you reconfigure your editor so it actualy puts >in LF/CR's so that it doesn't show up as one long line... Thanks, I recently reload my email client and it must have reset I fool the parameters. I don't notice this since Eudora wraps text by default. >All phones can be forced to do this. Even POTS. It's a commenly known >'feature' by most folks in the telecom industry for the last 30+ years. >Commen defeat is to leave the phones unplugged or place them next to a >radio or television. I was aware of the POTS impedence trick, but the ISDN came as a shock. --Steve From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 04:08:48 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: NYTimes web cookies In-Reply-To: <199801251852.NAA20393@myriad> Message-ID: <199801252000.VAA04977@basement.replay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain ghio@temp0199.myriad.ml.org (Matthew Ghio) wrote: > It doesn't check the PW or ID at all except the first time you log in. > After that it generates a new cookie titled NPLCNYT and that is the only > cookie it checks; the PW and ID are not required to be there at all. > If you delete the NPLCNYT cookie, it will check the PW/ID and generate > a new one. An example cookie is below: > > NPLCNYT=AAAALw>AAAAAX9IUUWiPhfALqHZuSh2mUM0yzNOwGRReAAAAAsAAAAAY3lwaGVycHVua3M> I put this wafer in my junkbuster-configfile and disabled all other cookies, and NYTimes let me in without asking for a password, but after I read a few articles, the site started behaving strangely, where the server would seem to hang on certain pages, taking forever to send the html. Interesting though. Maybe we should hold a cypherpunks 'potluck' where everyone trades cookies. :) From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: aptinfo@nyrealty.com (NY Realty.COM) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 10:18:22 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Your nyrealty.com preferences Message-ID: <9801260215.AA18882@nyrealty.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Thank you, Random Q. Hacker, for setting your preferences at nyrealty.com Now, every time you return to www.nyrealty.com, the site will be customized according to your preferences. If you have any questions regarding the operations of the site or if you need assistance in finding an apartment in New York City, please contact us at aptinfo@nyrealty.com Sincerely, Real Estate On-Line http://www.nyrealty.com From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 11:27:20 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: Burning papers (fwd) Message-ID: <199801260322.VAA25747@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 04:00:08 +0100 (MET) > Subject: Re: Burning papers > From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) > I've heard that you can look at it under a microscope with a polarizing > filter and see the magnetic patterns. Go down to your local security or electronics supply (not Rat Shack) and you should be able to buy a polarized loupe and see it directly. > Plastic should burn fine, as most is polyethylene (CH2) which produces > water and carbon dioxide when burned, leaving virtually no residue. The > only plastic that you'd need to worry about is chlorinated stuff like PVC. If it has any N in it then don't burn it in a closed space otherwise you will get various xCN compounds. These are very toxic, KCN is Potassium Cyanide. In general you don't want to burn most plastics in closed spaces or be downwind because they do give off various toxic chemicals. You can check with your local fire dept. and they can provide references on the plastics used in television cases, 3.5 floppy covers (v the disk itself), video tape, etc. and the sorts of gases they give off. When my house burned 3 years ago both my cats were killed because of smoke inhalation (approx. 9 computers and bunches of other plastics went up). It was not a pretty sight. Congealed blood from lung eruptions on their lips, very blue tinge to the skin, etc. Not a pretty sight. If you're smart avoid burning plastics except under very controlled circumstances. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: webboard@netstrike.com (Webboard Mail Handler) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 10:55:01 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Welcome to our WebBoard! Message-ID: <19980126025531339.AAA359@max> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Thank you for participating in our conferencing system, Random Q.. Please save this message. It contains important information, such as your login name and password (see below). Our web conferencing offers online Help for all major features. If you have questions about a feature, look for the help button on the menubar or post a message asking for help (Click "Post" on the menubar). You may also want to try features such as email notification, spell checking, file attachments, and more. Here is your login information. Be sure to keep it somewhere safe! Your Login Name: cypherpunks Your Password: cypherpunks You can change your password, email address, and other items by clicking the "Profile" button on the menubar. Please be sure to come back and visit us at: http://max.netstrike.com:8080/~1 We hope you enjoy participating in our conferences! Sincerely, WebBoard Administrator From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Registration@Reba.com Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 11:25:00 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Welcome to RebaNet Message-ID: <19980125221210.7cf0008f.in@olsmx0.judds.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Hello, and welcome to RebaNet! I hope you enjoy what we have put together for you on my web site. We've tried to make it fun and entertaining, as well as informative. RebaNet is filled with extras such as: chat, message boards, Reba Review, and you'll even have to opportunity to send me questions through Ask Reba. Isn't modern technology just amazing? I still find it hard to believe that I can write you a letter, hit send, and you have it waiting in your e-mail box just minutes later! From time to time, I will send you email messages. This is a great way for me to keep in touch and let you know what's going on with me. Love, Reba From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Brian B. Riley" Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 11:46:48 +0800 To: "Jim Gillogly" Subject: Re: Tossing your cookies [Re: Why no "Banner Ad Eaters"?] Message-ID: <199801260341.WAA02927@mx01.together.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On 1/25/98 12:16 PM, Jim Gillogly (jim@acm.org) passed this wisdom: >Heinz-Juergen Keller skribis: >> Just a silly? question on cookies: >> What will happen if I just link cookies.txt to /dev/null ? >> Is there anything speaking against this solution? > >Works fine on Unix and Linux systems if you're not a cookie fan: >the remote sites think you've eaten their cookies, but you've >merely frisbeed them into the bit bin. > >It's better than telling Netscape you want to be asked: some >sites set a dozen cookies per hit, seems like, and saying "no" >to each gets immediately tedious. If you tell Netscape to reject >them, some sites won't serve you the content. Setting the browser >to accept everything and linking cookies.txt to /dev/null works >well for me. On a Mac you can erase the cookies file and then create a folder by the same name in its place ... Brian B. Riley --> http://members.macconnect.com/~brianbr For PGP Keys "One of the deep mysteries to me is our logo, the symbol of lust and knowledge, bitten into, all crossed with in the colors of the rainbow in the wrong order. You couldn't dream of a more appropriate logo: lust, knowledge, hope, and anarchy." -- Gassee - Apple Logo From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Kent Crispin Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 16:26:21 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Re: Burning papers In-Reply-To: <199801251819.MAA17338@manifold.algebra.com> Message-ID: <19980126001920.08937@songbird.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Sun, Jan 25, 1998 at 11:56:20AM -0800, Bill Stewart wrote: > At 12:19 PM 1/25/98 -0600, Igor Chudov @ home wrote: > >Just for your information, I _WAS_ mistaken. The papers burned really > >well. My confusion about burnability of papers arose because in the > >past I tried to burn magazines, and not papers and letters. The whole > >big box is gone, after two burns. Burning is unquestionably better than > >shredding. > > There are shredders, and then there are shredders. The SOHO-sized > shredders that just cut things into ribbons aren't very thorough > (and it's been demonstrated that documents shredded that way can > be reassembled by sufficiently large numbers of Iranian college students) > but they're good prep for burning the papers. > On the other hand, the cross-cut shredders that leave flakes no more > than 1/8" rectangles or even smaller chad are good enough for > classified documents. Maybe some classified documents. Certainly not for some others. -- Kent Crispin, PAB Chair "No reason to get excited", kent@songbird.com the thief he kindly spoke... PGP fingerprint: B1 8B 72 ED 55 21 5E 44 61 F4 58 0F 72 10 65 55 http://songbird.com/kent/pgp_key.html From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Adam Back Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 10:11:43 +0800 To: kelsey@plnet.net Subject: future proofing algorihtms (Re: (eternity) Eternity as a secure filesystem/backup medium) In-Reply-To: <199801221532.JAA28790@email.plnet.net> Message-ID: <199801260118.BAA00753@server.eternity.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain John Kelsey writes on cpunks: > >1. communications crypto used by the author in submitting > > the document is broken > > This is only a threat if the authorities have a good idea > who submitted the data, and want to prove it. If we assume that the document was submitted by mixmaster remailer, and that there is another leap forward in factoring algorithms such that 1024 bit isn't enough any more. (Not like it hasn't happened before cf Rivest & friend's original predictions of hardness of RSA-129). Now threat model is that NSA is archiving mail between mixmaster nodes. They observe which exit mail corresponds to the target document. They look at the set of mixmaster mails going into that node which could plausibly have corresponded to that message as determined by the pool size. Repeat to get back to originator. If we assume 100 message pool size (probably generous) and chain of length 10, that is 1000 decryptions which adds equivalent to 10 bits worth of symmetric key size. Paranoid stuff yes, but the NSA mixmaster traffic archive doesn't seem that unlikely. It is interesting to note that Tim May's recent suggestion of LAM (Local Area Mixes) would help here because if 5 of those mixmaster nodes where part of a LAM, it is unlikely that the NSA would be able to archive inter remailer traffic, thus increasing effective pool size to 100^5. So one advantage of the LAM approach is that it provides links which are protected by physical security. A user might like to amuse himself trying to use channels he suspects will not be archived as the entry point. Perhaps a disposable account at a high volume free mail account like hot mail might be nice. We would like to push NSA's problem towards having to archive the entire net traffic. > >2. the eternity architecture contains encrypted documents to > > frustrate attempts to locate documents, and to hide the > > contents of documents from individual servers > > Again, this won't be too economical unless the eternity > service is rarely used. The design criteria of efficiency and robustness are conflicting. Our problem is to design something with useful tradeoffs. Probably a system offering a range of trade offs so that low risk documents can make use of more efficient but less secure services, etc. > M XOR s_1(K1) XOR S_2(k2) XOR ... XOR s_5(k5). > > leaves no way to recover M unless all five s_i() can be > guessed. > > Note that, in practice, this isn't likely to be useful > unless you've done the same kind of thing for symmetric key > distribution, random number generation, etc. Otherwise, > your attacker in 2050 will bypass the symmetric encryption > entirely and factor your RSA modulus, or guess all the > entropy sources used for your PRNG, or whatever else you can > think of. Yes. We need to build constructs for all areas. A mega hash would be nice, with a large output size even in the face of birthday attack, preferably as secure as a collection of hash functions. That gives us something to wash our pseudo random number input entropy with, and then we can go on to combine public key systems. A problem with public key systems however is that there isn't a lot of choice -- basically all based on discrete log or factoring. So perhaps RSA and DH combined in a construct with an optimistically proportioned key size would be near all that could be done. > The good news, though, is that active attacks (like chosen > input attacks) and many side-channel attacks (e.g., timing > attacks) turn out not to be possible if you are trying to > mount them after the encryption has been carried out. A variation of this is that if we can get widely deployed blanket encryption (IPSEC), we have largely won because we can mix all sorts of things below that envelope, and the NSA is reduced to archiving some large proportion of network traffic. Our task is then to design protocols which aggresively rekey (earliest opportunity) and which maximise the number of nodes which the NSA would need to archive traffic between to recover traffic with future cryptanalysis. I suspect archiving world Network traffic would pose something of a operational and financial strain :-) Adam -- Now officially an EAR violation... Have *you* exported RSA today? --> http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/ print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Steve Schear writes: > At 1:52 PM -0500 1/25/98, Matthew Ghio wrote: > >> Cookies and the NYTIMES subscription: NYTIMES.COM tries to store your > >> userid and password in the cookie with keywords PW= and ID=. Problem is, > >> it tries to encode them using 8-bit characters. Lucky for us, at this time > >> NYTIMES.COM does not check if userid/password are valid, just that they're > >> a part of the cookie!! So, just add these two lines to your junkbuster > >> config: > >> > >> wafer PW=0 > >> wafer ID=0 > >> > >> and nytimes.com will greet you as "0" and let you right in. > > > > > >It doesn't check the PW or ID at all except the first time you log in. > >After that it generates a new cookie titled NPLCNYT and that is the only > >cookie it checks; the PW and ID are not required to be there at all. > >If you delete the NPLCNYT cookie, it will check the PW/ID and generate > >a new one. An example cookie is below: > > > >NPLCNYT=AAAALw>AAAAAX9IUUWiPhfALqHZuSh2mUM0yzNOwGRReAAAAAsAAAAAY3lwaGVycHVua > > Anyone have something similar for the WSJ? www.wsj.com is a pay site ($49 | $29 / annum). Someone (not me) might want to post the details of their subscription so everyone else could use it; I suspect that the folks running wsj.com might object. I messed around some more with various sites that use cookies. 1. .CNN.com wants to set the following 4 cookies for "cypherpunks cypherpunks": PNAA=:Ypgxlx L. Egdfbd'sZAQF0: (i.e. Random Q. Hacker) PNAB=:01884: PNAC=:CVGTEOZRSBY: CNN_CUSTOM=1 path=/customnews Problem is, the last one needs the path and there'e no way to fake path in junkbusters wafer. I simply put cnn.com in the cookie file momentarily, logged in to let it set the cookie, then changed it to ">cnn.com" to filter out any updates to these 4 cookies. 2. www.economist.com has a freebie "cypherpunks cypherpunks" account. The cookie is: wafer econ-key=4GgOaV1a Perhaps someone cares to set up a paid account for group use. 3. foxnews.com doesn't allow "cypherpunks" (too long); "cypherpunk" is already taken, and I couldn't guess the password. Would the entity responsible please set the password to what we all expect it to be. :-) 4. avweb.com (aviation site) cypherpunks cypherpunks wafer AVweb_Auth=Y3lwaGVycHVua3M6Y3lwaGVycHVua3M= 5. .reba.com (country music) cypherpunks cypherpunks wafer RebaNet%5FPWD=cypherpunks wafer RebaNet%5FUID=cypherpunks 6. http://www.netstrike.com:8080/ cypherpunks cypherpunks wafer WB-User=cypherpunks wafer WB-Pass=cypherpunks 7. .citywire.com aka .nyrealty.com - manhattan real estate Random Q. Hacker cypherpunks@algebra.com cypherpunks wafer primary_nyrealtyid=Ra34cbf1b0a7d1c wafer nyrealtyid=Ra34cbf1b0a7d1c 8. .netscape.com, .mcom.com wafer NETSCAPE_ID=10010408,121ee744 wafer NSCP-US-DOWNLOAD=pkjbcTTL5OYAAAAAYRr3d8towI7Tj4v3nJwgig== (Should somebody set up a cypherpunks microsoft login for downloading all the patches and bug fixes they put out?) Given the number of these things, it seems that sending them out with every nntp request as a wafer wastes too much bandwidth. Can someone recommend a good program for editing the cookie file? I'm too lasy to write it myself. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 22:20:45 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: More dumb ad sites for your killfile In-Reply-To: <199801260247.DAA11848@basement.replay.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) writes: > ads.lycos.com > ad.doubleclick.net > ads.altavista.digital.com > ad.preferences.com > ph-ad*.focalink.com > www.news.com/Banners > ads.lycos.com > static.wired.com/advertising A desirable feature for a proxy would be to filter portions of what it gets. If we're getting a URL that matches a pattern (like www.stocks.hotshit.com), then once we see a certain pattern in the HTML (start of embedded ad), excise the HTML until we see another pattern. A set of triples. My block file so far is much bigger than yours. Anyone cares to keep the official big blocklist? :-) ************************************************************************** victory.cnn.com/(image|click).ng/ /fox/graphics/yuppie.gif ads.web.aol.com /*/rsac.jpg /gifs/ads/ webtrack.com # look for guesttrack /.*/rsacirated.gif /shell-cgi/adserv/ads /adserver/ /ad-graphics/ /cgi-win/tracker /cgi-bin/Count /cgi-bin/guesttrack webcrawler.com/icons/(tenants.*|bottom_logo).gif netads.*.com/ mckinley.com/img/magellan/butnbar.gif #hotbot.com hotbot.com/images/list.*.gif # banner-net.com/ /cgi-bin/nph-count # yahoo /us.yimg.com/images/compliance/ # Internet explorer logos /.*/ie.*_(animated|static|sm).gif /.*/netnow.*.gif pagecount.com gm.preferences.com # da Silva's stupid list of mailing lists /internet/paml/sponsors /gifs/mlogo3.gif #dejanews /gifs/tripod.gif /gifs/browsers.gif /gifs/dnlogo_r.*.gif # domains smartclicks.com/ resource-marketing.com/ valueclick.com/ bannermall.com/ iname.com/ bannerweb.com/ eads.com/ /interdex/reciprocal/ /cgi-bin/spim/sp/ adforce..*.com/ /cgi-bin/adclick imageserv.imgis.com/images/ /g/ads/ # /graphics/ads/ /OAS/ugo/adstream.cgi/ /content/cgi-bin/clickad/ /content/advertising/ /.*/(S|s)ponsors/.*.gif /cgi-bin/pn/show_ad /gif/ads/ .*banner.*.gif /ad/ /adgenius/ /adproof/ /(A|a)ds/ /adv/ /advertising/ /adverts/ /avimages/ /banner_ds/ /banners/ /banners?/ /CategoryID=0 /cgi-bin/ad-bin/ /cgi-bin/adroll/ /cgi-bin/counter* /cgi-bin/nph-adlick /event.ng/ /gfx/spon/ /gifs/netfinity.gif /gifs/tripod2.gif /graphics/pcast.gif /graphicsadvert /image/ads/ /images/ABCnewsa.gif /images/ads/ /images/deckad1.gif /images/getpoint1.gif /images/nyyahoo.gif /images/partners/ /images/promo/ /img/ads/ /img/art4/home/promo/ /inserts/images/ /ml/gfx/spon/ /pictures/sponsors/ /promobar /promos/ /promotions/ /RealMedia/ads/ /shared/images/marketing/ /sponsor.*/.*.gif 209.25.19.47/ :23 ad.*.com/ adserve.*.com/ ad.*.net/ adcount.hollywood.com/ ads*.focalink.com/ ads.*.com/ bannersolutions.com/ bannerswap.com/ counter.digits.com/ digits.com/ doubleclick.com/ flycast.com/ freestats.com/ globaltrack.com/ globaltrack.net/ gp.dejanews.com/ guide.infoseek.com/ infoseek.com/images/channel/ hitbox.com/ hollynxxx.com/ icount.com/ jcount.com/ linkexchange.com/ register-it.com riddler.com/ sexhound.com/ sexlist.com/ stattrax.com/ style.rahul.net/altavista/adverts/ # Geocities www.geocities.com/cgi-bin/homestead/GeoGuideLite_image* geocities.com/MemberBanners xpagecount.com/ xxxcounter.com/ ************************************************************************** More stuff that I need to sort out: adsmart.net doubleclick.net SmartBanner imageserv.imgis.com/images images.yahoo.com/adv /ad_client.cgi # ms sucks ! /*.*/(ms)?backoff(ice)?.*.(gif|jpe?g) /*.*/(msie|sqlbans|powrbybo|activex|backoffice|explorer|netnow|getpoint|ntbutton|hmlink).*.(gif|jpe?g) /*.*/activex.*(gif|jpe?g) /*.*/explorer?.(gif|jpe?g) /*.*/freeie.(gif|jpe?g) /*.*/ie_?(buttonlogo|static?|anim.*)?.(gif|jpe?g) /*.*/ie_sm.(gif|jpe?g) /*.*/msie(30)?.(gif|jpe?g) /*.*/msnlogo.(gif|jpe?g) /*.*/office97_ad1.(gif|jpe?g) /*.*/pbbobansm.(gif|jpe?g) /*.*/powrbybo.(gif|jpe?g) /*.*/sqlbans.(gif|jpe?g) # generally useless information and promo stuff (commented out) #/*.*/(counter|getpcbutton|BuiltByNOF|netscape|hotmail|vcr(rated)?|rsaci(rated)?|freeloader|cache_now(_anim)?|apache_pb|now_(anim_)?button|ie_?(buttonlogo|static?|.*ani.*)?).(gif|jpe?g) #------------------------ # # specific servers # #------------------------ 193.158.37.3/cgi-bin/impact 193.210.156.114 194.231.79.38 199.78.52.10 204.253.46.71:1977 204.94.67.40/wc/ 205.216.163.62 205.217.103.58:1977 205.217.103.58:1977 206.50.219.33 207.159.135.72 207.82.250.9 209.1.135.144:1971 209.1.135.142:1971 ad-up.com ads?.*\.(com|net) ad.adsmart.net ad.doubleclick.net ad.infoseek.com ad.linkexchange.com ad.preferences.com adbot.com adbot.theonion.com adcount.hollywood.com adforce.imgis.com adlink.deh.de adone.com ads*.focalink.com ads*.zdnet.com ads.csi.emcweb.com ads.imagine-inc.com ads.imdb.com ads.infospace.com ads.lycos.com ads.narrowline.com ads.realmedia.com ads.softbank.net/bin/wadredir ads.usatoday.com ads.washingtonpost.com ads.web.aol.com ads.web21.com adservant.mediapoint.de banners.internetextra.com bannerswap.com bs.gsanet.com/gsa_bs/ ciec.org/images/countdown.gif click1.wisewire.com click2.wisewire.com clickii.imagine-inc.com:1964 commonwealth.riddler.com customad.cnn.com cyberfirst1.web.cerf.net/image.ng/ digits.com/wc/ dino.mainz.ibm.de flycast.com/ globaltrack.com globaltrak.net gm.preferences.com/image.ng gtp.dejanews.com/gtplacer hardware.pagecount.com/ hitbox.com/wc/ hyperbanner.net icount.com/.*.count images.yahoo.com/promotions/ imageserv.imgis.com impartner.de/cgi-bin linktrader.com/cgi-bin/ logiclink.nl/cgi-bin/ movielink.com/media/imagelinks/MF.(ad|sponsor) nrsite.com nt1.imagine-inc.com nt2.imagine-inc.com nytsyn.com/gifs pagecount.com/aa-cgi-bin pagecount.com/aa-cgi-bin ph-ad*.focalink.com promo.ads.softbank.net resource-marketing.com/tb/ smartclicks.com/.*/smartimg smh.com.au/adproof/ sysdoc.pair.com/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/sysdoc/sponsor.gif victory.cnn.com/image.ng/spacedesc videoserver.kpix.com w20.hitbox.com www..bigyellow.com/......mat.* www.ads.warnerbros.com www.fxweb.holowww.com/.*.cgi www.iadventure.com/adserver/ www.infoworld.com/pageone/gif www.isys.net/customer/images www.javaworld.com/javaworld/jw-ad www.link4link.com/cgi-bin www.mediashower.com/ad-bin/ www.nedstat.nl/cgi-bin/ www.nj.com/adverts www.nrsite.com www.pagecount.com/aa-cgi-bin www.search.com/Banners www.smartclicks.com:81 www.swwwap.com/cgi-bin/ www.valueclick.com/cgi-bin/ www.websitepromote.com/partner/img/ www.wishing.com/webaudit yahoo.com/CategoryID=0 #------------------------ # # some images on servers that I frequently visit # #------------------------ # some images on cnn's website just suck! /*.*/book.search.gif /*.*/cnnpostopinionhome..gif /*.*/custom_feature.gif /*.*/explore.anim.*gif /*.*/infoseek.gif /*.*/pathnet.warner.gif /BarnesandNoble/images/bn.recommend.box.* /digitaljam/images/digital_ban.gif /hotstories/companies/images/companies_banner.gif /markets/images/markets_banner.gif /ows-img/bnoble.gif /ows-img/nb_Infoseek.gif cnnfn.com/images/left_banner.gif # die sueddeutsche /*.*/images/artszonnet.jpg # yahoo.de /promotions/bankgiro/ # /gif/buttons/banner_.* /gif/buttons/cd_shop_.* /gif/cd_shop/cd_shop_ani_.* #altavista /av/gifs/av_map.gif /av/gifs/av_logo.gif /*.*/banner_ads/ /*.*/banners?/ /*.*/images/addver.gif /*.*/place-ads /*.*/promobar.* /*.*/publicite/ /*.*/reklame/ /*.*/sponsor.gif /*.*/sponsors?[0-9]?/ /*.*/werb\..* /ad_images/ /bin/nph-oma.count/ct/default.shtml /bin/nph-oma.count/ix/default.html /cgi-bin/nph-load /netscapeworld/nw-ad/ /worldnet/ad.cgi /rotads/ /rotateads/ /rotations/ /promotions/houseads/ ************************************************************************** --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Anonymous Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 16:29:01 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: No Subject Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Timothy May prefers to have sex with little kids because his own penis is like that of a three-year-old. /\**/\ ( o_o )_) Timothy May ,(u u ,), {}{}{}{}{}{} From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 11:06:38 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: More dumb ad sites for your killfile Message-ID: <199801260247.DAA11848@basement.replay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain ads.lycos.com ad.doubleclick.net ads.altavista.digital.com ad.preferences.com ph-ad*.focalink.com www.news.com/Banners ads.lycos.com static.wired.com/advertising From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 11:04:54 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: Burning papers In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980125115620.007d0680@popd.ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: <199801260300.EAA13290@basement.replay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Igor Chudov @ home wrote: > I burned a couple of floppies, too. Actually I am not sure how good job > would shredding of floppies do. I assume that bits and pieces of data > can still be recovered... But hopefully no one would care enough. I've heard that you can look at it under a microscope with a polarizing filter and see the magnetic patterns. But it's much easier to just encrypt the disk so you don't waste the media when you're finished. Plastic should burn fine, as most is polyethylene (CH2) which produces water and carbon dioxide when burned, leaving virtually no residue. The only plastic that you'd need to worry about is chlorinated stuff like PVC. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 11:33:54 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: No Subject In-Reply-To: <199801230425.FAA19403@basement.replay.com> Message-ID: <199801260327.EAA16232@basement.replay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Anonymous writes: >> 7) What are the following government agencies and what are their function? >> h) DOJ > They harass Microsoft They're the ones who look the other way when high government officials are involved with corruption (like illegal campaign fundraising, etc.). From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Raph Levien Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 23:05:10 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: List of reliable remailers Message-ID: <199801261450.GAA27777@kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I operate a remailer pinging service which collects detailed information about remailer features and reliability. To use it, just finger remailer-list@kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu There is also a Web version of the same information, plus lots of interesting links to remailer-related resources, at: http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~raph/remailer-list.html This information is used by premail, a remailer chaining and PGP encrypting client for outgoing mail. For more information, see: http://www.c2.org/~raph/premail.html For the PGP public keys of the remailers, finger pgpkeys@kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu This is the current info: REMAILER LIST This is an automatically generated listing of remailers. The first part of the listing shows the remailers along with configuration options and special features for each of the remailers. The second part shows the 12-day history, and average latency and uptime for each remailer. You can also get this list by fingering remailer-list@kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu. $remailer{'cyber'} = ' alpha pgp'; $remailer{"mix"} = " cpunk mix pgp hash latent cut ek ksub reord ?"; $remailer{"replay"} = " cpunk mix pgp hash latent cut post ek"; $remailer{"jam"} = " cpunk mix pgp hash middle latent cut ek"; $remailer{"winsock"} = " cpunk pgp pgponly hash cut ksub reord ?"; $remailer{'nym'} = ' newnym pgp'; $remailer{"squirrel"} = " cpunk mix pgp pgponly hash latent cut ek"; $remailer{'weasel'} = ' newnym pgp'; $remailer{"reno"} = " cpunk mix pgp hash middle latent cut ek reord ?"; $remailer{"cracker"} = " cpunk mix remix pgp hash ksub esub latent cut ek reord post"; $remailer{'redneck'} = ' newnym pgp'; $remailer{"bureau42"} = " cpunk mix pgp ksub hash latent cut ek"; $remailer{"neva"} = " cpunk pgp pgponly hash cut ksub ?"; $remailer{"lcs"} = " mix"; $remailer{"medusa"} = " mix middle" $remailer{"McCain"} = " mix middle"; $remailer{"valdeez"} = " cpunk pgp pgponly hash ek"; $remailer{"arrid"} = " cpunk pgp pgponly hash ek"; $remailer{"hera"} = " cpunk pgp pgponly hash ek"; $remailer{"htuttle"} = " cpunk pgp hash latent cut post ek"; catalyst@netcom.com is _not_ a remailer. lmccarth@ducie.cs.umass.edu is _not_ a remailer. usura@replay.com is _not_ a remailer. remailer@crynwr.com is _not_ a remailer. There is no remailer at relay.com. Groups of remailers sharing a machine or operator: (cyber mix reno winsock) (weasel squirrel medusa) (cracker redneck) (nym lcs) (valdeez arrid hera) This remailer list is somewhat phooey. Go check out http://www.publius.net/rlist.html for a good one. Last update: Thu 23 Oct 97 15:48:06 PDT remailer email address history latency uptime ----------------------------------------------------------------------- hera goddesshera@juno.com ------------ 5:03:45 99.86% nym config@nym.alias.net +*#**#**### :34 95.82% redneck config@anon.efga.org #*##*+#**** 2:00 95.44% mix mixmaster@remail.obscura.com +++ ++++++* 19:18 95.27% squirrel mix@squirrel.owl.de -- ---+--- 2:34:19 95.16% cyber alias@alias.cyberpass.net *++***+ ++ 11:26 95.11% replay remailer@replay.com **** *** 10:06 94.93% arrid arrid@juno.com ----.------ 8:50:34 94.41% bureau42 remailer@bureau42.ml.org --------- 3:38:29 93.53% cracker remailer@anon.efga.org + +*+*+*+ 16:32 92.80% jam remailer@cypherpunks.ca + +*-++++ 24:14 92.79% winsock winsock@rigel.cyberpass.net -..-..---- 9:59:18 92.22% neva remailer@neva.org ------****+ 1:03:02 90.39% valdeez valdeez@juno.com 4:58:22 -36.97% reno middleman@cyberpass.net 1:01:28 -2.65% History key * # response in less than 5 minutes. * * response in less than 1 hour. * + response in less than 4 hours. * - response in less than 24 hours. * . response in more than 1 day. * _ response came back too late (more than 2 days). cpunk A major class of remailers. Supports Request-Remailing-To: field. eric A variant of the cpunk style. Uses Anon-Send-To: instead. penet The third class of remailers (at least for right now). Uses X-Anon-To: in the header. pgp Remailer supports encryption with PGP. A period after the keyword means that the short name, rather than the full email address, should be used as the encryption key ID. hash Supports ## pasting, so anything can be put into the headers of outgoing messages. ksub Remailer always kills subject header, even in non-pgp mode. nsub Remailer always preserves subject header, even in pgp mode. latent Supports Matt Ghio's Latent-Time: option. cut Supports Matt Ghio's Cutmarks: option. post Post to Usenet using Post-To: or Anon-Post-To: header. ek Encrypt responses in reply blocks using Encrypt-Key: header. special Accepts only pgp encrypted messages. mix Can accept messages in Mixmaster format. reord Attempts to foil traffic analysis by reordering messages. Note: I'm relying on the word of the remailer operator here, and haven't verified the reord info myself. mon Remailer has been known to monitor contents of private email. filter Remailer has been known to filter messages based on content. If not listed in conjunction with mon, then only messages destined for public forums are subject to filtering. Raph Levien From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: John Young Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 21:54:30 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: Announcement: RPK InvisiMail released on 12 Jan, 1998 Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980126133825.00baba0c@pop.pipeline.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Bill Stewart compared the PR of RPK New Zealand's crypto to Peter Gutmann's claims for NZ export controls. This contrast confirms the report a few days back that any commercial crypto product that receives export approval from any country is probably compromised notwithstanding the manufacturer's claims otherwise. Not that it's news here, but this appears to be the unpublished requirement for granting of approvals, case by case. Either cooperate or face indefinite delays. As Peter noted some time ago, this is what he was running into when he could not get a clear answer about NZ regulations, and parallels reports of similar experiences in the US, UK and other countries. There is a similar current thread on UK Crypto about the difficulty of getting a straight answer about crypto policy from HMG while observing the success of cooperating crypto manufacturers. It will be interesting to see how hard Congress pushes in the new session to expose what the Administration is up to behind BXA's closed doors in contrast to open accounts. And, what will be revealed (and concealed) bit by bit from the horse-trading of the Bernstein, Karn and Junger cases. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: David Honig Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 01:25:58 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: Clinton needs a war with Iraq In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980126085103.007ffe80@206.40.207.40> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 06:37 PM 1/24/98 EST, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote: disrupt the war effort. > >I'm with you, Commander Timmy. What can I do do get some American aggressors >killed? > >Hands off Iraq! > You haven't been having sexual relations with the President, have you Dmitri? ------------------------------------------------------------ David Honig Orbit Technology honig@otc.net Intaanetto Jigyoubu "The tragedy of Galois is that he could have contributed so much more to mathematics if he'd only spent more time on his marksmanship." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Rabid Wombat Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 13:04:28 +0800 To: Matthew Ghio Subject: Re: State of the Union Address In-Reply-To: <199801241849.NAA17756@myriad> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Sat, 24 Jan 1998, Matthew Ghio wrote: > Anonymous wrote: > > > [1] Grab a totally random sample of 100 high school students. Haul the > > students out one at a time and ask them the following questions: > [snip] > > 11) Michelle mixes one gram of HCl and one half gram of NaOH. Under normal > > circumstances, what is produced and in what quantities? > > > > The correct answer is an explosion and a big mess. One student in my high > school chemistry class learned this the hard way. :) > > Um, salt water explodes? From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Gene Carozza Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 02:17:22 +0800 To: John Young Subject: Re: Cylink and Organized Crime? Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980126095204.00870b10@192.43.161.2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched Dear John, Thanks for your inquiry. These "serious charges" are completely inaccurate. Regards, Gene C. At 12:42 PM 1/26/98 -0500, John Young wrote: >Mr. Gene Carozza >Security Public Relations >Cylink Corporation > >Dear Mr. Carozza, > >We have received two recent e-mail messages concerning >Cylink's alleged links to organized crime. The messages >may be seen on the Web at: > > http://jya.com/cylinked.htm > >This is a serious charge. Could you provide information to >answer it? > >Sincerely, > >John Young > > > Gene Carozza Phone: 408-328-5175 Sr. Public Relations Manager Fax: 408-774-2522 Cylink Corp. Pager: 1-800-716-6434 910 Hermosa Ct. Cell: 408-529-8402 Sunnyvale, CA 94086 email: carozza@cylink.com www.cylink.com From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: John Young Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 00:43:36 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: Technologies of Political Control Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980126162629.006cc9a8@pop.pipeline.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain A bit more on getting a copy of the report: An Appraisal of Technologies of Political Control It is Scientific and Technological Options Assessment (STOA) of the European Parliament offering the report, not British MEP Glyn Ford, who was its sponsor. For a copy to be sent by snail, fax a request to STOA in Luxembourg: 352-4300-22418 No electronic version is available from STOA. Draft reports remain in paper format until finalized by the European Parliament, which may take a while. STOA's publications web site was last updated in July 1996, and its rep apologized for the trailing-edge tech. http://www.europarl.eu.int/dg4/stoa/en/publi/publi.htm From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 01:46:21 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Video & cryptography... Message-ID: <199801261728.LAA27585@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Hi, I was in a discussion with several people regarding the rate if improvement of current video production equipment and how it would effect the veracity of video images of all sorts in future legal cases. Is anyone aware of anybody working on a mechanism to digitaly sign video and photographs (a cool app of stego I suspect)? This would alleviate a great deal of mistrust for security video cams and such. What I had in mind was the manufacturer puts a unique key in each machines rom's and when each image comes in a signature of the image and the key is stored in the interframe retraces that are normaly not shown (ala videotext). I asked a couple of people in the biz that I know and it seemed a new concept to them. Just a thought... ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Robert Hettinga Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 01:36:55 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: CyberSitter to the rescue. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain --- begin forwarded text Resent-Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 17:19:45 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: qnx.com: localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: 0xdeadbeef@substance.abuse.blackdown.org Cc: bostic@bsdi.com Subject: CyberSitter to the rescue. Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:08:19 -0500 From: glen mccready Resent-From: 0xdeadbeef@substance.abuse.blackdown.org X-Mailing-List: <0xdeadbeef@substance.abuse.blackdown.org> archive/latest/2639 X-Loop: 0xdeadbeef@substance.abuse.blackdown.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: 0xdeadbeef-request@substance.abuse.blackdown.org Status: U Forwarded-by: Faried Nawaz Forwarded-by: acb@zikzak.net (Andrew C. Bulhak) Forwarded-by: Matt Curtis This is from the PerForce mailing list, PerForce is a source code control system that doesn't use mounted drives, but instead uses TCP/IP socket communications to check code in and out. ----- Well, I just spent several hours tracking something down that I think is SO braindead that it must be called evil. I hope this will save someone else some hassle. There's an NT box on my desk that someone else uses every now and then. This machine is otherwise used as my programming box and backup server. All of a sudden, my programming files were being corrupted in odd places. I thought "hmm, my copy must be corrupt". So I refreshed the files. No change. "hmm, the code depot copy must be corrupt".. Checked from other machines. No problem there. Viewed the file from a web based change browser in Internet Explorer. Same corruption in the file. Telnet'd to the server machine and just cat'd the file to the terminal. Same problem. What's going on? The lines that were corrupted were of the form #define one 1 /* foo menu */ #define two 2 /* bar baz */ What I always saw ON THIS MACHINE ONLY was: #define one 1 /* foo */ # fine two 2 /* bar baz */ Can you guess what was happening? Turns out, someone had inadvertly installed this piece of garbage called CyberSitter, which purports to protect you from nasty internet content. Turns out that it does this by patching the TCP drivers and watching the data flow over EVERY TCP STREAM. Can you spot the offense word in my example? It's "NUDE". Seems that cybersitter doesn't care if there are other characters in between. So it blanks out "nu */ #de" without blanking out the punctuation and line breaks. Very strange and stupid. It also didn't like the method name "RefreshItems" in another file, since there is obviously a swear word embedded in there. Sheesh. It's so bad it's almost funny. Hope this brightens your day as much as it brighted mine :-). ---- +----------------------+---+ | Ross Johnson | | E-Mail: rpj@ise.canberra.edu.au | Info Sciences and Eng|___| | University of Canberra | FAX: +61 6 2015227 | PO Box 1 | | Belconnen ACT 2616 | WWW: http://willow.canberra.edu.au/~rpj/ | AUSTRALIA | +--------------------------+ --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/ Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Robert Hettinga Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 01:37:03 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Spies Like Us. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain --- begin forwarded text Resent-Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 12:33:35 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: qnx.com: localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: 0xdeadbeef@substance.abuse.blackdown.org Subject: Spies Like Us. Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 11:21:56 -0500 From: glen mccready Resent-From: 0xdeadbeef@substance.abuse.blackdown.org X-Mailing-List: <0xdeadbeef@substance.abuse.blackdown.org> archive/latest/2642 X-Loop: 0xdeadbeef@substance.abuse.blackdown.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: 0xdeadbeef-request@substance.abuse.blackdown.org Forwarded-by: Nev Dull Forwarded-by: chuck Forwarded-by: David HM Spector Forwarded-by: Declan McCullagh Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 13:42:26 -0800 (PST) From: Dan Tsang To: Declan McCullagh Subject: CIA changes Web FAQ: concedes spying on Americans Last month, the CIA had to change its Web FAQ page because of my case, Tsang v. CIA, which was settled when the CIA promised not to spy on me again. But it refused to make the same promise to cover other Americans. The original FAQ page had said "No" to a question whether or not it spies on Americans. Now it concedes it spies on Americans. The new CIA FAQ is at: http://www.odci.gov/cia/public_affairs/faq.html See my account in Sunday's (Jan. 18) Los Angeles Times Opinion page: A CIA Target at Home in America. It can be found at: http://www.latimes.com/sbin/my_iarecord.pl?NS-doc-path=/httpd/docs/HOME/NEWS/ OPINION/t000005584.html&NS-doc-offset=1&NS-collection=DailyNews&NS-search-set=/ var/tmp/34c3e/aaaa001wBc3eacf& Daniel C. Tsang Bibliographer for Asian American Studies & Social Sciences (Economics, Politics) Machine-Readable Data Files Librarian Lecturer, School of Social Sciences 380 Main Library University of California PO Box 19557 Irvine CA 92623-9557 USA dtsang@uci.edu (714) 824-4978 (714) 824-5740 fax homepage: http://sun3.lib.uci.edu/~dtsang add suffix for news: /netnews1.htm politics: /pol.htm economics: /econ.htm asian american studies: /aas.htm soc sci data archives: /ssda.htm public opinion: /pod.htm AWARE: awarefs/htm host, "Subversity" on KUCI, 88.9 FM in Orange County each Tuesday from 5-6 p.m.; selected shows w/ audio online: http://www.kuci.uci.edu/~dtsang/subversity N.B.: This is NOT official University of California correspondence. --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/ Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: J-Dog Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 04:28:58 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: RE: Latest Clinton dodge? In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980127090723.008012c0@206.40.207.40> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980126122113.007237bc@carlink.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 01:15 PM 1/27/98 EST, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote: >David Honig writes: > >> At 07:11 PM 1/26/98 EST, you wrote: >> >"Roger J Jones" writes: >> > >> >> >> >> Thanks for the info - while I am at it - has anyone ever disclosed the >> >> "distinguishing characteristic" that Paula Jones claims will prove its >> Bubba >> >> Bill? >> >> >> >Can you spell "curvature"? >> >> So you *do* have intimate knowledge of the president.... >> but I won't tell :-) > >What is the difference between Bill Clinton and the Titanic? >Only 1700 people went down on the Titanic. > >--- > >Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM >Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps > most people get Aids from sex clinton gets sex from Aids lates J-Dog From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Graham-John Bullers Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 03:49:40 +0800 To: Anonymous Subject: Re: your mail In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Anonymous wrote: I think Vulis needs each of us to send ten copies of this back to him. > Timothy May prefers to have sex with little kids > because his own penis is like that of a > three-year-old. > > /\**/\ > ( o_o )_) Timothy May > ,(u u ,), > {}{}{}{}{}{} > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Graham-John Bullers Moderator of alt.2600.moderated ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ email : : ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://www.freenet.edmonton.ab.ca/~real/index.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Ernest Hua Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 04:43:19 +0800 To: "'cryptography@c2.net Subject: RE: Update on New Zealand crypto policy Message-ID: <413AC08141DBD011A58000A0C924A6D50D7D73@MVS2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Need help: Can anyone get to this URL? Ern -----Original Message----- From: pgut001@cs.auckland.ac.nz [SMTP:pgut001@cs.auckland.ac.nz] Sent: Saturday, January 24, 1998 4:20 PM To: cryptography@c2.net Cc: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Update on New Zealand crypto policy As part of my recent effort to prepare a useful home page after 2 years of having instead a mini text adventure, I've finally got around to finishing off the web page containing the recent history of, and current state of, New Zealands crypto export policy as decided by several intelligence agencies and a supporting cast of bungling bureaucrats. This policy has resulted in New Zealand enjoying the dubious distinction of having the strictest export controls on earth, with everything ranging from crypto hardware down to software, library books, computer magazines, and journals being restricted from export. It's not even possible for a university to publish academic research without prior permission from a government agency, and the requirements for obtaining this permission are structured to ensure that they can never be fulfilled. You can find the information on: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/policy/ The page also contains links to a sizeable collection of never-before- published documents including correspondence with relevant government agencies, and media reports on the situation. If you're going to send me mail about this, please note that I'll be at Usenix in San Antonio for the next week, so it'll take awhile for me to reply. My PGP key's at the bottom of my home page if you need it. Peter. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 02:43:32 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Burning Papers - Plastics - Cyanides - Reference Message-ID: <199801261834.MAA28198@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Hi, It took a few minutes to find one, but below is just one of the many standards that are implimented for plastic uses in the home that make reference to minimal levels of HCN in particular. Despite what some folks would like you to believe, plastics in conflagration are *NOT* safe to inhale even in small quantitites because of these gases. Note that I edited a bunch of lines out for brevity. Forwarded message: > X-within-URL: http://www.cern.ch/CERN/Divisions/TIS/safdoc/IS/is41/table1.html > > IS 41 : TABLE 1 > > Test Standards and Specifications > for the Selection of Plastics > > TEST > Standards (1) > Requirements > _________________________________________________________________ > [text deleted] > > Duration of flame application 60 s unless > otherwise stated according to Clause 5. > Time to extinction: 30 s * > Damaged length (mm) must be measured* > > FV0 or FV1 > 94 V0, 94V1 > > FT >260!C. Length burnt > _________________________________________________________________ > [text deleted] > _________________________________________________________________ > > > Toxicity > Toxicity of fire gases > > ABD 0031 > > HF HC1 HCN SO2 + H2S CO NO + NO2 > _________________________________________________________________ > [remainder deleted] ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: miner Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 03:50:05 +0800 To: Declan McCullagh MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 12:55 PM 1/26/98 -0500, Declan McCullagh wrote: > >Clinton said this morning: > >>>>> > I want you to listen to me. I'm >going to say this again. I did not have sexual relations with that >woman, Miss Lewinsky. I never told anybody to lie, not a single time >-- never. These allegations are false. Doesn't gennifer flowers has(had?) an audio tape of clinton asking her to deny their affair, there is no proof, etc.? I think a sequence of that audio and then the above statement played maybe 10 times on CNN would make a nice piece of news. ><<<< > >The question then becomes, of course, what does "sexual relations" mean? > >Is it oral sex? > >-Declan > > > From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: John Young Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 01:47:32 +0800 To: carozza@cylink.com Subject: Cylink and Organized Crime? Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980126174215.007173cc@pop.pipeline.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Mr. Gene Carozza Security Public Relations Cylink Corporation Dear Mr. Carozza, We have received two recent e-mail messages concerning Cylink's alleged links to organized crime. The messages may be seen on the Web at: http://jya.com/cylinked.htm This is a serious charge. Could you provide information to answer it? Sincerely, John Young From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 03:09:42 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: Burning papers (fwd) Message-ID: <199801261855.MAA28261@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 19:05:54 +0100 (MET) > Subject: Re: Burning papers (fwd) > From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) > As usual Jim, your posting is prolific but your science is lacking. Ad hominims, opinions, and no proof... > bind to whatever it comes in contact with (usually oxygen). The only way > cyanide could escape in gaseous form is as HCN, however this cannot happen > because the hydrogen has a lower activation energy for combining with > oxygen, and thus the reaction is starved of free hydrogen by the time the > carbon begins to burn. Various other nitrogen compounds are produced, > such as NOx, but this is true of all combustion and not limited to plastic. I have forwarded to the list a single safety standard for plastics and fires. It *specificaly* mentions HCN, so apparently it not only can happen but does often enough they want to test for it on a national level. There are many more out there and as I said before, if you contact your local fire dept. they can provide you with documentation as well. > A more likely (and deadly) result, which you did not mention, is sulfur > dioxide. Most plastics don't contain sulfur, but rubber products may. Sulfur dioxide is present and does pose a threat, fortunately it's a rather short termed threat and treatable. Sulfur dioxide turns into sulphuric acid in the water of the body. Not to mention it burns up the oxygen in formation. The biggest threat with the acids that are produced in a fire is to your possessions. They soak this stuff up and then when the firemen put the fire out they use water which creates acids. These acids effect the components of your possessions over an extended time. > Sulfur dioxide combines with water to produce H2SO3 and H2SO4 (sulfuric > acid) which is quite toxic if inhaled. Depends on the molarity. It is nowhere near as toxic as cyanide on a per part basis. > Most smoke inhalation deaths result for particles clogging the lungs rather > than gases. Cats have a tendency to hide when they feel threatened or > injured, an instinct which often imperils them in a burning building. Actualy most smoke inhalation deaths occur because of lack of oxygen and the elevated temperatures. The actual clogging process would take much longer than the 2-3 minutes most smoke deaths take to occur. As to cats hiding, they tend to hind *under* furniture which is actualy the *safest* place to be, the clearest air is next to the floor. It was also where my cats were found, in the living room under the couch where the smoke very clearly never got below about shoulder height - it stains the walls quite well. The fire didn't even make it into that part of the house, it stopped in the next room. The fire itself burned for less than 20 minutes total because the neighbor saw it about 5 minutes after the person who accidently set it off had left. The fire station was on the next block. It was very quick. The firemen were very careful to explain to me exactly why the cats died, gases from the plastics (HCN was specificaly mentioned) and the temperature of the air (they estimate over 350F). While not enough to cause spontaneous combustion it is more than enough to cook the lungs. The air was hot enough that several plastic bags holding wargame materials within 1 ft of the floor were melted but the paper materials were not even scorched. This would further indicate that the damage was done by the temperature of the gas and not direct flame or smoke. > Also remember that computers have materials in them other than plastic, for > example lead and other heavy metals. Batteries and electrolytic capacitors > are also sources of many toxic materials. The leads on most components are an aluminum compound (my background is EE) and they typicaly don't start to burn until well over 800F, aluminum itself burns at 600. Since typical tip temperatures in soldering (lead eutecticts only - not indium composites) are in the 600 to 700 it is clear that pure aluminum would not be desirable. So they mix tin and other compounds with it. As to electrolytics, the liquid plastics that make up the dielectrics are very toxic and most certainly give off xCN compounds when burned. Just for the record, Lead (the element) is not generaly used in modern electronics except in a eutectic solder mix for connections. I have several computers that were burned in the fire and the majority of the solder on the pcb's was *not* evaporated. In most cases it wasn't even melted even though the case was completely gone (2 A1000's that work fine though the cases were completely destroyed by the temperature of the air, not fire). > In short, it's not the plastic that's toxic, it's all the other crap (ink, > dye, glue, solder, batteries, dielectric, etc) Malarky. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Declan McCullagh Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 03:03:24 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Latest Clinton dodge? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Clinton said this morning: >>>> I want you to listen to me. I'm going to say this again. I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinsky. I never told anybody to lie, not a single time -- never. These allegations are false. <<<< The question then becomes, of course, what does "sexual relations" mean? Is it oral sex? -Declan From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 03:48:59 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: Video & cryptography... (fwd) Message-ID: <199801261945.NAA28522@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > From: Adam Shostack > Subject: Re: Video & cryptography... > Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 13:56:57 -0500 (EST) > Schneier, Wagner and Kelsey have done some work on an authenticating > camera. > > One issue to be concerned with is that what the camera sees is not > always the truth. Putting a film set together to film bigfoot is > easy. The fact that the film is authenticated as having come from the > camera doesn't mean a whole lot in some cases. Doesn't this same sort of issue arise from any other digital signature process then? There should be nothing fundamentaly different between the characteristics of a video camera signing a frame than a person signing email. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Adam Shostack Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 03:13:55 +0800 To: ravage@ssz.com Subject: Re: Video & cryptography... In-Reply-To: <199801261728.LAA27585@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199801261856.NAA03348@homeport.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Schneier, Wagner and Kelsey have done some work on an authenticating camera. One issue to be concerned with is that what the camera sees is not always the truth. Putting a film set together to film bigfoot is easy. The fact that the film is authenticated as having come from the camera doesn't mean a whole lot in some cases. Adam Jim Choate wrote: | Hi, | | I was in a discussion with several people regarding the rate if improvement | of current video production equipment and how it would effect the veracity | of video images of all sorts in future legal cases. | | Is anyone aware of anybody working on a mechanism to digitaly sign video and | photographs (a cool app of stego I suspect)? This would alleviate a great | deal of mistrust for security video cams and such. What I had in mind was | the manufacturer puts a unique key in each machines rom's and when each | image comes in a signature of the image and the key is stored in the | interframe retraces that are normaly not shown (ala videotext). I asked a | couple of people in the biz that I know and it seemed a new concept to them. | | Just a thought... | | | ____________________________________________________________________ | | | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | | ravage@ssz.com | | | 512-451-7087 | | |____________________________________________________________________| | -- "It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -Hume From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 06:18:48 +0800 To: David Miller Subject: Re: Compaq / DEC buyout In-Reply-To: <199801261956.NAA28599@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 3:46 PM -0800 1/26/98, David Miller wrote: >Jim, I'm forwarding this to the list: > >Jim Choate wrote: >I think so. Tim had mentioned that last he heard the Intel/DEC deal was dead. >Perhaps this is what he was talking about. The thing is, how much about the This grossly distorts what I have said. I don't have time to sift through my posts on Intel and DEC, but I can't believe I said anything so simplistic as "the Intel/DEC deal is dead." (Or even "was dead," if we want to get into Clintonesque semantics.) --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Roger J Jones" Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 04:41:40 +0800 To: Subject: RE: Latest Clinton dodge? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801262032.OAA05982@pc1824.ibpinc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Did not Clinton say publicly that he did not consider oral sex "sexual relations" in some statement recently? [mailto:owner-cypherpunks@cyberpass.net]On Behalf Of Declan McCullagh Clinton said this morning: >>>> I want you to listen to me. I'm going to say this again. I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinsky. I never told anybody to lie, not a single time -- never. These allegations are false. <<<< >>>>The question then becomes, of course, what does "sexual relations" mean? Is it oral sex? -Declan <<<<< From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 07:04:44 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Re: Compaq / DEC buyout (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 1:44 PM -0800 1/26/98, BMM wrote: >The "Screamer 533" is currently shipping with a 533MHz Alpha. It is >reviewed in this month's "Linux Journal". > > >On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Jim Choate wrote: > >> Unless my info is seriously off DEC is already shipping 500MHz Alpha's and >> has 1GHz chips in test. DEC historicaly has been way ahead of Intel (say a This is simply untrue, that DEC historically has been way ahead of Intel. The Alpha is a different type of chip. Anyone who has analyzed the past few years, the past decade, and the past couple of decades would have a hard time making the case that DEC has been ahead of Intel in the overall combination of design and manufacturing. As you should know, Intel will be making the Alpha chip, as its manufacturing capabilities are _overall_ in advance of DEC's. (Beware of comparing R&D or prototype fab capabilities with high volume fab capabilities...Intel has its own R&D fabs, currently developing 0.13 micron capabilities...DEC will not be participating in this move to sub-0.20 micron areas.) Many things go into the "who's ahead" calculation, besides just clock speed. Had that been the only significant issue, some of the aerospace companies with their VHSIC chips in the early 80s would have won. Or the Silicon on Sapphire (SOS) and GaAs processor chips...very fast, but very low-yielding. I've written a couple of long posts on this, and won't here. Of course, if I am wrong, and Intel is behind the other chip or computer companies in this overall ability, there are some mightly good investment opportunities, either in selling Intel short or in buying the stock of AMD, Compaq, Sun, etc. We can each put our money where our mouth is. So far, I've done awfully well holding the Intel stock I acquired in the 1970s. "The past is no guarantee of future behavior," as the disclaimor goes, but I have seen no reason to sell the bulk of my holdings. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Eric Blossom Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 07:36:21 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: "Privacy on the Line" Message-ID: <199801262255.OAA08550@comsec.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I'm about half way through Diffie and Landau's new book, Privacy on the Line: The Politics of Wiretapping and Encryption and have found it quite interesting and entertaining. Contents 1. Introduction 2. Cryptography 3. Cryptography and Public Policy 4. National Security 5. Law Enforcement 6. Privacy: Protections and Threats 7. Wiretapping 8. Communications: The Current Scene 9: Cryptography: The Current Scene 10: Conclusion It's 342 pages including a great section of notes. Computer Literacy has it for $22.50. ISBN 0-262-04167-7 mail order: 408-435-0744 ObWoMD: "8. (p. 82) Distinguishing nuclear explosions from other events, such as large lightning bolts or explosions of meteors in the atmosphere, is not easy. The satellite reacts less to the total energy of the blast than to the form of the flash. Nuclear explosions have a characteristic two-humped flash caused by gamma ray induced formation of nitrogen pentoxide (N2O5). The time between humps is called the "bhang metre" and is characteristic of the type of weapon." Eric From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 05:11:52 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Compaq / DEC buyout (fwd) Message-ID: <199801262104.PAA28864@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 15:46:58 -0800 > From: David Miller > Subject: Compaq / DEC buyout > Oh, shit. Well, it seems as though Compaq has been pulling away from Intel > lately (towards AMD), so perhaps this will be a GoodThing(tm), because > otherwise DEC might turn out to be like Apple, except to die a much, much > slower death. Had DEC not been bought this is exactly (IMO) what would have happened. > I'm afraid that Intel may know enough now to make a 1GHz pentium, which would > probably a ModeratelyBadThing(tm). I'd much prefer DEC to save mankind and > lead them into the next millenium. Unless my info is seriously off DEC is already shipping 500MHz Alpha's and has 1GHz chips in test. DEC historicaly has been way ahead of Intel (say a year or so which in this business is a lot) and I don't see any reason to suspect that to stop. A comparison of base technology between Intel and DEC leads me to believe DEC is ahead a good margin. Intel won because of the price (DEC has historicaly been very expensive) and support of MS and IBM. (remember, nobody ever lost their job for buying IBM) > Yep, but for how much longer? Some elephants never die, and right now it > looks like Intel can once again save MicroSoft's OS by hardware (ironically > via DEC). NT bloats as the hardware gets faster. The only question I have is whether MS will continue to produce a HAL for WinNT 5.0 or whatever they call it. That could put a serious crimp in Compaq/DEC and would most definitely spawn a new round of lawsuites. Had you realized that when we break the 1GHz barrier it won't be safe to operate these machines without the cover on them? It'd be like breaking the inter-lock on your microwave. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 05:27:24 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: HCN & Plastics Message-ID: <199801262114.PAA28935@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Hi, Per [1], "There are many compounds in which carbon is bonded to Nitrogen. Hydrogen Cyanide, HCN, is commercialy prepared by the ... The compound is highly poisonous, low boiling liquid (boiling point, 26.5C) an dis used in the manufacture of plastics." ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| [1] Chemistry, 6ed. Mortimer ISBN 0-534-05670-9 pp. 670 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Roger J Jones" Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 05:52:49 +0800 To: "'Declan McCullagh'" Subject: RE: Latest Clinton dodge? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801262142.PAA09728@pc1824.ibpinc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Thanks for the info - while I am at it - has anyone ever disclosed the "distinguishing characteristic" that Paula Jones claims will prove its Bubba Bill? -----Original Message----- From: Declan McCullagh [mailto:declan@pathfinder.com] Sent: Monday, January 26, 1998 3:26 PM To: Roger J Jones Cc: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: RE: Latest Clinton dodge? Not as far as I'm aware. Tho Gennifer Flowers said years ago that Clinton distinguishes between the two. You may be thinking of his "there is no sexual relationship" quip last Wed, which was duly dissected and analyzed; journalists remembered his artful dodge on the pot-smoking affair. I think we note in our (rather extensive) cover package in this week's magazine that Sen.Hatch and Speaker Gingrich also make this kind of distinction, at least according to women who claim they're in a position to know. Interestingly, they're going to be the fellows sitting in judgment if this goes to impeachment and trial... -Declan At 14:35 -0600 1/26/98, Roger J Jones wrote: >Did not Clinton say publicly that he did not consider oral sex "sexual >relations" in some statement recently? > >[mailto:owner-cypherpunks@cyberpass.net]On Behalf Of Declan McCullagh >Clinton said this morning: > >>>>> > I want you to listen to me. I'm >going to say this again. I did not have sexual relations with that >woman, Miss Lewinsky. I never told anybody to lie, not a single time >-- never. These allegations are false. ><<<< > >>>>>The question then becomes, of course, what does "sexual relations" mean? > >Is it oral sex? > >-Declan > ><<<<< From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: David Miller Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 04:50:47 +0800 To: Jim Choate Subject: Compaq / DEC buyout In-Reply-To: <199801261956.NAA28599@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <34CD2072.17C2@avana.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Jim, I'm forwarding this to the list: Jim Choate wrote: > >From the news on CNN it's a done deal. DEC share holders are supposed to get > like $30/share and some sort of transfer of stocks... Oh, shit. Well, it seems as though Compaq has been pulling away from Intel lately (towards AMD), so perhaps this will be a GoodThing(tm), because otherwise DEC might turn out to be like Apple, except to die a much, much slower death. > Wonder if this means that Compaq will go head to head with MS/Intel now? I think so. Tim had mentioned that last he heard the Intel/DEC deal was dead. Perhaps this is what he was talking about. The thing is, how much about the Alpha does Intel know, and does this mean yet another round of lawsuits? I'm afraid that Intel may know enough now to make a 1GHz pentium, which would probably a ModeratelyBadThing(tm). I'd much prefer DEC to save mankind and lead them into the next millenium. > They will certainly have the experience and the market name to attempt it. > Last time I checked the Alpha was still a good deal faster than the Pentium. Yep, but for how much longer? Some elephants never die, and right now it looks like Intel can once again save MicroSoft's OS by hardware (ironically via DEC). NT bloats as the hardware gets faster. > Now since Compaq can use vertical marketing in regards to Alpha chips they > should be able to produce much more competitive machines price wise than DEC > was able to do. > > I have a fond place for DEC, a PDP/8e was the first machine I ever actualy > got to put my hands on. I miss the front panel switches sometimes (not often > though)... I'll aways have a fondness in my heart for installing RSTS from a TU-10 tapedrive and having to wait almost an hour for it to fall off the spindle before having to start all over... --David Miller middle rival devil rim lad From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 07:19:40 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: Latest Clinton dodge? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4ymXJe1w165w@bwalk.dm.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Declan McCullagh writes: > > Clinton said this morning: > > >>>> > I want you to listen to me. I'm > going to say this again. I did not have sexual relations with that > woman, Miss Lewinsky. I never told anybody to lie, not a single time > -- never. These allegations are false. > <<<< > > The question then becomes, of course, what does "sexual relations" mean? > > Is it oral sex? > > -Declan > > I fail to see any crypto-relevance in this question, but Mr. Clinton has made it perfectly clear that he doesn't consider getting a blow job to be sexual relations. As for his telling anybody to lie, hmm... we have his deposition where he admitted having sex with Gennifer Flowers (sp?), and we have a taped phone call where he asked her to deny it. Clinton has as much credibility as Semeer Parekh, Sandy Sandfart, and the rest of the C2Net gang. (Gotta say something cryptorelevant :-) --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 06:16:18 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: Video & cryptography... (fwd) Message-ID: <199801262210.QAA29306@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > From: Adam Shostack > Subject: Re: Video & cryptography... (fwd) > Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 17:02:53 -0500 (EST) > | Doesn't this same sort of issue arise from any other digital signature > | process then? There should be nothing fundamentaly different between the > | characteristics of a video camera signing a frame than a person signing > | email. > > It arises in a different context; with a signature on paper, > you're generally indicating that you've read and consented to whats on > the paper, not that you created it. Isn't signing the document at least in theory a participatory creative act? If you don't sign it then it doesn't exist in the same context as if you do. Otherwise why have the signature? If I use a camera to sign a digital image am I not stating that I have viewed and consented to the image being a valid representation of what the lens saw? Seem quite similar to me. > The meaning of a camera signing a > video still is not obvious to me. Is it intended to be 'this is what > we saw through the lens?' or 'this is what really happened?' A mechanism to sign a digital image would provide some base protection against altering the image surreptitously, just as why you sign (and get a copy) of other documentary evidence. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Declan McCullagh Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 05:47:16 +0800 To: "Roger J Jones" Subject: RE: Latest Clinton dodge? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Not as far as I'm aware. Tho Gennifer Flowers said years ago that Clinton distinguishes between the two. You may be thinking of his "there is no sexual relationship" quip last Wed, which was duly dissected and analyzed; journalists remembered his artful dodge on the pot-smoking affair. I think we note in our (rather extensive) cover package in this week's magazine that Sen.Hatch and Speaker Gingrich also make this kind of distinction, at least according to women who claim they're in a position to know. Interestingly, they're going to be the fellows sitting in judgment if this goes to impeachment and trial... -Declan At 14:35 -0600 1/26/98, Roger J Jones wrote: >Did not Clinton say publicly that he did not consider oral sex "sexual >relations" in some statement recently? > >[mailto:owner-cypherpunks@cyberpass.net]On Behalf Of Declan McCullagh >Clinton said this morning: > >>>>> > I want you to listen to me. I'm >going to say this again. I did not have sexual relations with that >woman, Miss Lewinsky. I never told anybody to lie, not a single time >-- never. These allegations are false. ><<<< > >>>>>The question then becomes, of course, what does "sexual relations" mean? > >Is it oral sex? > >-Declan > ><<<<< From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: BMM Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 05:53:12 +0800 To: Jim Choate Subject: Re: Compaq / DEC buyout (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801262104.PAA28864@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain The "Screamer 533" is currently shipping with a 533MHz Alpha. It is reviewed in this month's "Linux Journal". On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Jim Choate wrote: > Unless my info is seriously off DEC is already shipping 500MHz Alpha's and > has 1GHz chips in test. DEC historicaly has been way ahead of Intel (say a From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jack Oswald Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 09:17:06 +0800 To: "'Bill Stewart'" Subject: RE: Announcement: RPK InvisiMail released on 12 Jan, 1998 Message-ID: <01BD2A7C.342CBB60@joswald@rpkusa.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Bill - The technology that we export as part of RPK InvisiMail, is world-class strong crypto. Key size options are 607 bits and 1279. The math behind the system is based on the same as that of D-H. There is no snake oil. There was no intentional or unintentional attempt to mislead any government authority. We also did not request an export license, because there is no need to do so in New Zealand as long as the export is by means of the Internet. Peter G. knows this as well. The story may be different for physical export on disk, disc or tape, although we cannot concur with Peter's personal experience. Our experience is that we get pretty good treatment from the NZ authorities. We also may use a different approach. I have often heard that you can often get a better response when using honey than vinegar. Therein may explain differences in our respective experiences. I have personally met with the Minister of Trade for New Zealand. His views and those of his staff seemed to be acceptable to us and have not imposed any undue restrictions of our business or our ability to operate. Jack Oswald President and CEO RPK Fast Public Key Encryption RPK New Zealand Ltd. 4750 Capitola Road Capitola, CA 95010 joswald@rpkusa.com www.rpk.co.nz www.InvisiMail.com +1 408.479.7874 phone +1 408.479.1409 fax +1 800.475.4509 pager -----Original Message----- From: Bill Stewart [SMTP:bill.stewart@pobox.com] Sent: Sunday, January 25, 1998 5:44 PM To: RPK New Zealand Ltd; cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Cc: scataldi@earthlink.net Subject: Re: Announcement: RPK InvisiMail released on 12 Jan, 1998 I was amused to receive two mail messages back-to-back, one from Peter Gutmann talking about New Zealand having one of the strictest formal export controls in the world, and one from RPK New Zealand talking about how their encryption product is not export-controlled because it's from NZ, not the US, and how their RPK Fast Public Key Encryptonite(tm) Engine is the strongest crypto in the world. Either they haven't bothered asking for export permission, or they asked in such a way that the export bureaucrats didn't notice it was crypto and regulated by their crypto export preventers, or their crypto somehow falls through the cracks, e.g. by using an algorithm with public keys shorter than 512 bits (works for ECC, not RSA) and private keys shorter than 40 bits (or 41 on a good day), or perhaps passes the "snake oil test" for export permission. I suppose it's possible that the NZ Export Bureaucrats have lightened up since Peter's last dealings with them, but it's not likely. >--------------- The mail, referencing www.invisimail.com >RPK New Zealand Ltd. in a joint venture with Virtually Online Ltd. >has released RPK InvisiMail, a standards-based e-mail security >application for use with Internet mail software (SMTP/POP3). >The product offers the strongest encryption available anywhere in >the world. Since it was built outside the United States, >it is also available all over the world with strong encryption. >RPK InvisiMail is also the easiest product of its type >to setup and use which makes it quite unique. ========= From Peter Gutmann's web page This policy has resulted in New Zealand enjoying the dubious distinction of having the strictest export controls on earth, with everything ranging from crypto hardware down to software, library books, computer magazines, and journals being restricted from export. It's not even possible for a university to publish academic research without prior permission from a government agency, and the requirements for obtaining this permission are structured to ensure that they can never be fulfilled. You can find the information on: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/policy/ ============================== Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Robert A. Hayden" Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 07:09:39 +0800 To: BMM Subject: Re: Compaq / DEC buyout (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, BMM wrote: > The "Screamer 533" is currently shipping with a 533MHz Alpha. It is > reviewed in this month's "Linux Journal". We have purchased several Alpha based clone computers in the last 4 months that are all 533MHz machines. There is also available a 566MHz, a 600MHz, and an 800MHz, but for our applications the price is prohibitive. These are clone machines using a DEC Alpha motherboard and CPU. Very nice boxes :-) =-=-=-=-=-= Robert Hayden rhayden@means.net UIN: 3937211 IP Network Administrator http://rhayden.means.net MEANS Telcom (612) 230-4416 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Adam Shostack Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 06:11:07 +0800 To: ravage@ssz.com Subject: Re: Video & cryptography... (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801261945.NAA28522@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199801262202.RAA05102@homeport.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Jim Choate wrote: | > From: Adam Shostack | > Subject: Re: Video & cryptography... | > Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 13:56:57 -0500 (EST) | | > Schneier, Wagner and Kelsey have done some work on an authenticating | > camera. Dave points out that this was Schneier, Hall and Kelsey. | > One issue to be concerned with is that what the camera sees is not | > always the truth. Putting a film set together to film bigfoot is | > easy. The fact that the film is authenticated as having come from the | > camera doesn't mean a whole lot in some cases. | | Doesn't this same sort of issue arise from any other digital signature | process then? There should be nothing fundamentaly different between the | characteristics of a video camera signing a frame than a person signing | email. It arises in a different context; with a signature on paper, you're generally indicating that you've read and consented to whats on the paper, not that you created it. The meaning of a camera signing a video still is not obvious to me. Is it intended to be 'this is what we saw through the lens?' or 'this is what really happened?' Adam -- "It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -Hume From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 07:19:30 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: Compaq / DEC buyout (fwd) Message-ID: <199801262311.RAA29803@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 14:51:45 -0800 > From: Tim May > Subject: Re: Compaq / DEC buyout (fwd) > This is simply untrue, that DEC historically has been way ahead of Intel. I'm not going to get in a pissing contest with Tim, since he obviously has some connection to Intel... > The Alpha is a different type of chip. Anyone who has analyzed the past few > years, the past decade, and the past couple of decades would have a hard > time making the case that DEC has been ahead of Intel in the overall > combination of design and manufacturing. The bottem line is they are both Von Neumann architectures and can be reduced to a single bit Turing machine. As a result they *most* certainly can be compaired. I have owned Intel and DEC machines since the late 70's. I started out on a DEC PDP 8e in 1976 a friend game me when I was in high school and bought a S-100 Intel 8080 machine about a year later. Since that time I have owned 80186, 80286, 80836, 80486, and Pentium machines as well as PDP 11/03, PDP 11/23, PDP 11/34, & MicroVax II. Given a comparison by date the DEC machines have had a higher clock frequency and generaly been a generation or so ahead of Intel in the capabilities of the hardware. Further, the operating system architectures available on the hardware, until the last 6-8 years anyway, also went to DEC when it came to scalability and usability. The fact that NT was available on both the Intel and Alpha architectures pretty much at the same time makes any further comparison moot except for market share (which I alluded to the main forces in an earlier post). Unix was available on the DEC architectures LONG (what, 20 years?) before it every even thought about being put on a Intel cpu. > As you should know, Intel will be making the Alpha chip, as its > manufacturing capabilities are _overall_ in advance of DEC's. (Beware of Then why isn't the Intel cranking at 500MHz now like the Alpha? Why is every market comparison for the chips shows the DEC staying ahead of the Intel in base clock frequency (I won't even get into architecture efficiencies) for the next 5-8 years? > capabilities...Intel has its own R&D fabs, currently developing 0.13 micron > capabilities...DEC will not be participating in this move to sub-0.20 > micron areas.) I bet now that Compaq has given them the sorts of resources they had to go head to head with IBM from the late 60's to the early 80's that could change pretty quickly, even considering the multi-billion dollar start-up costs of modern fabs. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: phelix@vallnet.com Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 01:49:10 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Re: More dumb ad sites for your killfile In-Reply-To: <199801260247.DAA11848@basement.replay.com> Message-ID: <34ccc2d8.377415894@128.2.84.191> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On 26 Jan 1998 10:55:17 -0600, nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) wrote: > >ads.lycos.com >ad.doubleclick.net >ads.altavista.digital.com >ad.preferences.com >ph-ad*.focalink.com >www.news.com/Banners >ads.lycos.com >static.wired.com/advertising For those of you with regexp filters, here's my list: .*/(live)*(a|A)d(v|vert|s|ising|stream.cgi)*/ .*/sponsors.*/ .*/ctv22/.ads/ .*\.globaltrack\.com .*\.doubleclick\.net .*/GeoAD.*/ .*\.songline.com.*/\@\- .*ad(s|[0-9])*\.[a-zA-Z0-9]+\.(com|net)/ .*linkexchange.com .*focalink.com .*nytsyn\.com/gifs/ .*(news|cnet|gamecenter|builder|search|download|shareware|activex|browser(s)*)\.com.*Banners/ .*nrsite.com -- Phelix From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 07:46:27 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Processor Architecture Analysis - Reference Message-ID: <199801262340.RAA29988@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Hi, If you're interested in the basic technology used in many of the current and proposed processor architectures I strongly recommend the following: Advanced Computer Architectures: A design space approach S. Sima, T. Fountain, P. Kacsuk ISBN 0-201-42291-3 ~$50.00 It was published in 1997 and covers various analysis of many of todays CPU's (unfortunately it doesn't do the Alpha) and discusses means to get realistic comparisons between them. It also covers some of the white paper architectures that have come out in the last 3-4 years on proposed architecture upgrades and alternatives. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Declan McCullagh Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 06:55:54 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Fear, loathing, and Bill Gates (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 14:14:51 -0800 (PST) From: Declan McCullagh To: politech@vorlon.mit.edu Subject: FC: Fear, loathing, and Bill Gates ******** Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 16:42:08 -0500 From: Don Bx To: declan@well.com Subject: Re: More on Don Boudreaux "Calm Down" letter on Microsoft Declan, I had a thought that I must share. In reflecting upon the genuine hatred and fear that people increasingly have for Bill Gates and Microsoft, it occurred to me that this hatred and fear have much in common with the hatred and fear stirred up a decade or so ago against Japan. In both cases, people proved their affection for Japanese goods by buying them, but they also grew leary of Japan after being barraged on the air-waves by idiot pundits who insinuated that Japan had some sort of recipe for taking over the American economy. Economic serfdom was near, avoidable only by trade restraints. And, of course, behind this fear-mongering were U.S. rent-seeking firms that sought to be relieved of having to compete as vigorously as otherwise. Needless to say, Japan was never a threat to "take over" the American economy, or to harm it in any way. The same is true of Microsoft (as long as it doesn't rely upon government favors). The fear and hatred in both cases -- against Japan in the 1980s and against MS today -- is illogical and uninformed. But it is, for MS, increasingly real. Don ********* Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 23:02:07 -0600 (CST) From: Mac Norton To: Declan McCullagh Cc: politech@vorlon.mit.edu Subject: Re: FC: More on Don Boudreaux "Calm Down" letter on Microsoft Let me see if i get this right:DOJ got guns , MS don't got guns, therefore I'm for MS. Is that it? Gee thee's some heavy intellectual discourse going on here, you betcha. MacN ********* Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 16:23:25 -0500 (EST) From: Donald Weightman To: declan@well.com Subject: Re: FC: More on Don Boudreaux "Calm Down" letter on Microsoft DB doesn't seem to know much about antitrust -- it *does* scrutinize strongarm tactics when wielded by someone with market power, as MSFT almost certainly has. The claim about harm to the economy is pretty far ranging for someone who seems to have no expertise in the field. As an example of where antitrust has done good, I'd point to the gov't-mandated restucturing of the electric utility industry in the '30's (actually administered by the SEC), which can be argued to have laid the groundwork for the huge productivity gains that industry made for the next three decades. Cheers Don ******** Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 16:59:05 EST From: JEisenach@aol.com To: declan@well.com Subject: Re: FC: "Calm down!" -- Don Boudreaux letter to NYT on Microsoft Now that Microsoft has given up its inexplicable defense of an indefensible licensing arrangement, it may be a lot easier for everyone involved to "calm down." Calming down should not, however, mean giving Microsoft carte blanche to use its undeniable market power to shape the future of the market for software. What it should mean is devising a workable policy for applying sound antitrust principles to the software business -- and that's a very big task. Many of Microsoft's arguments have merit. It is true, for example, that rapid innovation and low (physical) capital requirements for entry make its monopoly more vulnerable than it otherwise might be. However, other arguments Microsoft has offered -- for example, falling prices -- are pretty lame. Falling relative to WHAT? is the relevant question (look at industrial prices during the second industrial revolution -- which went through long periods of decline despite the emergence of the steel, oil, railroad, etc. trusts). As for Microsoft's "opponents," their case has a fair amount of appeal -- and it's not just visceral. Microsoft clearly has market power in the market for operating systems. Operating systems are required for personal computers to operate. Microsoft has exercised its market power pretty aggressively. And, it shows every intention of continuing to exercise its market power to delay innovations that threaten it and to extend its dominant position into future generations of technology. I don't think many people dispute anything in the previous paragraph. What people ARE concerned about, of course, is the potential for an overly intrusive and regulatory approach by government that could slow down innovation -- a policy built around the idea of protecting competitors rather than protecting competition. I frankly haven't seen Joel Klein say anything that suggests they are headed in this direction -- but I sure agree that "eternal vigilance is the price of liberty." Now that we all have a chance to "calm down," my hope is that a rational debate can emerge on the question of how the goals of antitrust law (i.e. a market free of impediments to competition, regardless of their source) can best be pursued in the software/computing business. And, I'm not prepared to concede that letting Microsoft exercise its market power without any restraints at all is the best we can do, even in this very imperfect world. To close with a plug: on February 5, The Progress & Freedom Foundation will be hosting a conference at the Four Seasons Hotel in DC on this very topic. Participants include a virtual "who's who" of the market-based "Chicago school" of antitrust economists and lawyers -- Nick Economides, Benjamin Klein, James C. Miller, Tim Muris, Dan Oliver, Bob Tollison, Robert Willig, etc. It's open to the public and reasonably priced. For information, see WWW.pff.org. ******** Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 09:02:15 -0500 From: Don Bx To: declan@well.com My comment about the DOJ having guns and Microsoft not has drawn fire. Fair enough. But I defend my point, which is this: Microsoft gets customers only by offering them deals that they are free to accept or reject. No coercion is involved. If you don't buy MS products, no one threatens you with imprisonment or violence. In contrast, when government regulates commerce (beyond the enforcement of contracts and traditional tort and criminal law) it dictates the terms of exchanges -- ultimately at the point of a gun -- that we cannot be certain are mutually advantageous. When A and B exchange voluntarily with each other, we can be sure that both A and B each believes himself to be better off as a consequence of the exchange. When a third party wielding the threat of coercive power prevents these voluntary exchanges -- or imposes contract terms that would not otherwise be part of these exchanges -- we cannot be certain that the exchanges yield as much mutual benefit as when these exchanges are voluntary. Government possesses the monopoly authority to initiate coercion. This is an awesome power that in a civil and free society should be used sparingly. It should not be used to prevent firms from engaging in peaceful and voluntary exchanges with adults. Don Boudreaux ******* -------------------------------------------------------------------------- POLITECH -- the moderated mailing list of politics and technology To subscribe: send a message to majordomo@vorlon.mit.edu with this text: subscribe politech More information is at http://www.well.com/~declan/politech/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Declan McCullagh Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 06:57:48 +0800 To: "Roger J Jones" Subject: RE: Latest Clinton dodge? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Not as far as I'm aware. Though today Clinton's attys asked the judge to speed up the trial to get it over with ASAP. I'm sure this will be leaked as necessary. Jones and Starr attorneys rank up there with the White House when it comes to planned leaks. -Declan At 15:45 -0600 1/26/98, Roger J Jones wrote: >Thanks for the info - while I am at it - has anyone ever disclosed the >"distinguishing characteristic" that Paula Jones claims will prove its Bubba >Bill? > >-----Original Message----- >From: Declan McCullagh [mailto:declan@pathfinder.com] >Sent: Monday, January 26, 1998 3:26 PM >To: Roger J Jones >Cc: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net >Subject: RE: Latest Clinton dodge? > > >Not as far as I'm aware. Tho Gennifer Flowers said years ago that Clinton >distinguishes between the two. > >You may be thinking of his "there is no sexual relationship" quip last Wed, >which was duly dissected and analyzed; journalists remembered his artful >dodge on the pot-smoking affair. > >I think we note in our (rather extensive) cover package in this week's >magazine that Sen.Hatch and Speaker Gingrich also make this kind of >distinction, at least according to women who claim they're in a position to >know. > >Interestingly, they're going to be the fellows sitting in judgment if this >goes to impeachment and trial... > >-Declan > > > >At 14:35 -0600 1/26/98, Roger J Jones wrote: >>Did not Clinton say publicly that he did not consider oral sex "sexual >>relations" in some statement recently? >> >>[mailto:owner-cypherpunks@cyberpass.net]On Behalf Of Declan McCullagh >>Clinton said this morning: >> >>>>>> >> I want you to listen to me. I'm >>going to say this again. I did not have sexual relations with that >>woman, Miss Lewinsky. I never told anybody to lie, not a single time >>-- never. These allegations are false. >><<<< >> >>>>>>The question then becomes, of course, what does "sexual relations" >mean? >> >>Is it oral sex? >> >>-Declan >> >><<<<< From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 07:58:06 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Signing video... Message-ID: <199801262346.RAA30042@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Hi, I was exchangin idea with a couple of members off-list and an idea came to me about how to time stamp the frames. It would require a minor modification to the WWV transmission but it wouldn't be much. Have the WWV transmitters sign each 'tick' of the clock and have a WWV receiver in the vcr. This would allow time stamping the frame with a signed reference that could be checked. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Steve Schear Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 10:12:56 +0800 To: John Young Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I worked at Cylink as Manager of Business Development from April 1992 - April 1994. I reported directly to both Lew Morris (CEO) and Jim Omura (CTO) and know Jim socially, as well. I know of no instance in which I suspected Cylink had criminal ties (other than our own govenment ;-) I heard that NSA people from the Fort (Meade) did request that Cylink supply 'special' crypto devices to drug cartele clients I don't believe they were accomodated (probably not enough lead time or Cylink was offered too little money). Ademco is a major stockholder, as are Jim and Lew (~20% combined) and Renessisance Capital. --Steve From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 01:36:34 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: cookies and spam Message-ID: <199801261722.SAA01432@basement.replay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > 5. .reba.com (country music) cypherpunks cypherpunks > wafer RebaNet%5FPWD=cypherpunks > wafer RebaNet%5FUID=cypherpunks Yes, and thank you for signing up the list for their spam. cypherpunks/cypherpunks also works for dejanews, but at least I had the sense to send the replies to alt.anonymous.messages. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: William Knowles Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 10:39:23 +0800 To: DC-Stuff Subject: Former US spy ship now a tourist attraction Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain TOKYO (Reuters) [1.26.98] North Korea has turned the Pueblo, a U.S. navy intelligence ship captured 30 years ago, into a tourist attraction to attract badly needed foreign exchange, a Japanese scholar said Monday. Shinobu Oe, professor emeritus of contemporary history at Ibaraki University, told Reuters he visited the North Korean port of Wonsan, where the vessel is docked, on October 29. "As far as I know the North Koreans have been showing the ship to Japanese tourists since August," Oe said. "They tell tourists it's the Pueblo." The capture of the Pueblo and its crew by North Korean patrol boats off Wonsan in January 1968 held the administration of then-U.S. President Lyndon Johnson at bay for months. Japan's Asahi newspaper Monday published a photograph Oe took of the ship, which showed it bristling with antennae and wires. The professor said he could only view the ship from the dock. "It sure looks like the Pueblo," said a U.S. embassy naval attache in Tokyo who saw the photograph. Oe said North Koreans at the port gave no information about the ship or how it had been used for the past 30 years. Attracting foreign currency has become increasingly important to North Korea after years of economic decline and failed harvests that have left the isolated Stalinist nation struggling to feed its people. The standoff prompted by Pyongyang's seizure of the Pueblo 30 years ago led to a U.S. state of naval alert rivalling the Cuban missile crisis in 1963. The crew was finally released in December 1968, but the ship stayed in North Korean hands. Pyongyang portrayed the incident as a huge blow to the prestige of the U.S. superpower, which was then in the throes of the controversial Vietnam War. == The information standard is more draconian than the gold standard, because the government has lost control of the marketplace. -- Walter Wriston == http://www.dis.org/erehwon/ From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Brian B. Riley" Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 08:12:31 +0800 To: "Ernest Hua" Subject: RE: Update on New Zealand crypto policy Message-ID: <199801262347.SAA24665@mx02.together.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On 1/26/98 3:30 PM, Ernest Hua (Hua@teralogic-inc.com) passed this wisdom: >Need help: Can anyone get to this URL? > >Ern > [snip] > > http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/policy/ > I got to it with no problems on first try from East Coast USA. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 Charset: noconv iQEVAwUBNM0glz7r4fUXwraZAQFRGQf9F4R1EhPLwsSP84l5QcKk6KMhU341ox36 PincU6VSpYR8bq7CMSMh7G5f/H+3MkXNpnStGGI2H/jr/ggj+VeFtAZE/8WG5Mvw RbzbHxXKxq5one7kNc8qWMtWyd5vh6T+WUcyotUdvVBM5LAwP6sgv60vRsslbAYq 8jx4CMcWi8AM49vZknWAVQ+0QKWXthD5ltMFyLK8racRmIccFCsn//hDY0m7P+4I fbA3uKY5ESnJA5dUMCdree9tqB55R8iW/BdSKodemiO56FdClVOBdynVBFrchmGr zauO82EwceXiG3m2R44Zd7XPp0OfupzkB5+qZgWTeUR87SCnlzvrhw== =eeTo -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Brian B. Riley --> http://members.macconnect.com/~brianbr For PGP Keys "The illiterate of the 21st century will not be those who cannot read and write, but those who cannot learn, unlearn, and relearn." -- Alvin Toffler From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 02:20:20 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com Subject: Re: Burning papers (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801260322.VAA25747@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199801261805.TAA08049@basement.replay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Jim Choate wrote: > > Plastic should burn fine, as most is polyethylene (CH2) which produces > > water and carbon dioxide when burned, leaving virtually no residue. The > > only plastic that you'd need to worry about is chlorinated stuff like PVC. > > If it has any N in it then don't burn it in a closed space otherwise you > will get various xCN compounds. These are very toxic, KCN is Potassium > Cyanide. As usual Jim, your posting is prolific but your science is lacking. Since N2 is highly stable, CN ions are not an energetically favored result. Some amount may be produced, but CN- is highly reactive and will quickly bind to whatever it comes in contact with (usually oxygen). The only way cyanide could escape in gaseous form is as HCN, however this cannot happen because the hydrogen has a lower activation energy for combining with oxygen, and thus the reaction is starved of free hydrogen by the time the carbon begins to burn. Various other nitrogen compounds are produced, such as NOx, but this is true of all combustion and not limited to plastic. A more likely (and deadly) result, which you did not mention, is sulfur dioxide. Most plastics don't contain sulfur, but rubber products may. Sulfur dioxide combines with water to produce H2SO3 and H2SO4 (sulfuric acid) which is quite toxic if inhaled. > When my house burned 3 years ago both my cats were killed because of smoke > inhalation (approx. 9 computers and bunches of other plastics went up). It > was not a pretty sight. Congealed blood from lung eruptions on their lips, > very blue tinge to the skin, etc. Not a pretty sight. Most smoke inhalation deaths result for particles clogging the lungs rather than gases. Cats have a tendency to hide when they feel threatened or injured, an instinct which often imperils them in a burning building. Also remember that computers have materials in them other than plastic, for example lead and other heavy metals. Batteries and electrolytic capacitors are also sources of many toxic materials. In short, it's not the plastic that's toxic, it's all the other crap (ink, dye, glue, solder, batteries, dielectric, etc) From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 10:00:47 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: RE: Latest Clinton dodge? In-Reply-To: <199801262142.PAA09728@pc1824.ibpinc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain "Roger J Jones" writes: > > Thanks for the info - while I am at it - has anyone ever disclosed the > "distinguishing characteristic" that Paula Jones claims will prove its Bubba > Bill? > Can you spell "curvature"? --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Gary Harland Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 11:36:21 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: Latest Clinton Dodge? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >Clinton said this morning: > >>>> >I want you to listen to me. I'm >going to say this again. I did not have sexual relations with that >woman, Miss Lewinsky. I never told anybody to lie, not a single time >-- never. These allegations are false. ><<<< > >The question then becomes, of course, what does "sexual relations" >mean? > >Is it oral sex? > >-Declan It seems to be some sort of 'southern thing'. Of course a good Catholic boy from Detroit would never swallow (opps!) a sleezy end-run around the moral goal-posts of life like that. I can think of no better authority to invoke than Kinky Friedman, the immortal bard of Kerrville, Texas and notorious ring-leader of the band known as "The Texas Jewboys" ( famous for such country & western hits as "They Don't Make Jews Like Jesus Anymore", "I'm Proud To Be An Asshole From El Paso", "The Ballad of Charles Whitman", and many others - all available on his recently released CD). Hit it Kinky!... Waitret, Please, Waitret (Kinky Friedman, Major Boles, Roscoe West) Well, I pulled into Dallat on a cold December day Bought coffee and a doughnut at the Greasy Spoon Cafe, Spied me a pretty young waitret standing by her tray, But she couldnt believe her sweet young ears when the waitret heard me say: Oh, waitret, please, waitret, come sit down on my fate, Eatin aint cheatin, Lord it aint no disgrace. Oh, bring me a Lone Star, make it, make it a case Waitret, please, waitret, come sit down on my fate. Well, I walked up to the jukebox feeling kind of mean, The waitret said, Hey, stupid, thats a, thats a cigarette machine! Well, look-a here, young waitret, would you care to make a bet, And if that there aint a jukebox, you can smoke my cigarette! Oh, waitret, please, waitret, come sit down on my fate, Eatin aint cheatin, Lord it aint no disgrace. Oh, bring me a Lone Star, make it, make it a case And waitret, please, waitret, come sit down on my fate. Youre the prettiest thing in Dallat, is Dallat your home ? No, I come all the way from Houton and I feel so all alone. I used to live in Autin then I moved up to big D In hopes to get my big break on national TV. Oh, waitret, please, waitret, come sit down on my fate, Eatin aint cheatin, Lord it aint no disgrace. Oh, bring me a Lone Star, make it, make it a case Waitret, waitret, waitret, waitret, sit down on my fate. It's even funnier with the music of course. Kinky Friedman (http://www.kinkyfriedman.com) was kind of a 70's cult figure. He now writes mystery novels. According to Willie Nelson, ...the best whodunit writer to come along since Dashiell What's-his-name." As for Clinton, what can I say? What a pathetic, third-rate dickhead. Somebody flush the White House. It's starting to stink. ----------------------------------------------------------------- foggy@netisle.net lat:47d36'32" long:122d20'12" "Rather perish than hate and fear, and twice rather perish than make oneself hated and feared." -F. Nietzche- ----------------------------------------------------------------- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tom Weinstein Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 11:34:56 +0800 To: Markus Kuhn Subject: Re: Netscape 5 will be GPL'ed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <34CD53FD.363A9C8C@netscape.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Markus Kuhn wrote: > root wrote on 1998-01-23 01:29 UTC: > >> [Press Releases] >> http://www.netscape.com/newsref/pr/newsrelease558.html?cp=nws01flh1 >> >> NETSCAPE ANNOUNCES PLANS TO MAKE NEXT-GENERATION COMMUNICATOR SOURCE >> CODE AVAILABLE FREE ON THE NET > > Excellent! > > Finally mainstream software companies start to understand that security > critical software has to be provided to the customer in full compilable > source code to allow independent security evaluation. Don't hold your breath. We're still bound by US export regulations, so we won't be able to export crypto-relevant source code. We'll release what we can, but you probably won't be satisfied. Of course, there's always the option for some enterprising individuals outside the US to replace the missing pieces. -- What is appropriate for the master is not appropriate| Tom Weinstein for the novice. You must understand Tao before | tomw@netscape.com transcending structure. -- The Tao of Programming | From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Steve Schear Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 11:46:40 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: Signing video... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >Hi, > >I was exchangin idea with a couple of members off-list and an idea came to >me about how to time stamp the frames. It would require a minor modification >to the WWV transmission but it wouldn't be much. Have the WWV transmitters >sign each 'tick' of the clock and have a WWV receiver in the vcr. This would >allow time stamping the frame with a signed reference that could be checked. Although this could reduce the cost and power consumption in the camera how does this guarantee that the signature information wasn't inserted later. With today's excellent digital postprocessing it could be very hard to detect. --Steve From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Declan McCullagh Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 10:05:14 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: U.S. crypto czar's travel records revealed Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >From EPIC newsletter ======================================================================= [3] EPIC Obtains U.S. Crypto Czar's Travel Records ======================================================================= Following a year-long legal battle, EPIC has obtained over 500 pages of materials from the U.S. State Department on the international travels of David Aaron, the former U.S. Envoy for Cryptography. Aaron also served as U.S. Ambassador to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development when the OECD was developing its encryption policy guidelines. The released documents show Ambassador Aaron made frequent trips around the world lobbying for international adoption of key escrow encryption. He visited Australia, Belgium (both the European Union & Belgian governments), Canada, France, Germany, Japan, Switzerland and the United Kingdom. The documents also indicate that he went to South Africa, and met with the counselor of the Latvian embassy in Paris and with Russian Finance Ministry officials. Even before Aaron was appointed as President Clinton's "Special Envoy for Cryptography," U.S. State Department messages indicate that the United States was making overtures to various countries via American embassies around the world. These include the diplomatic posts in Canberra, London, Tokyo, Ottawa, Tel Aviv, Paris, Bonn, The Hague and Moscow. One message to these foreign posts announced the revised U.S. cryptography export policy (the key recovery within two years or "no export" rule). The public announcement of that policy was made on October 1, 1996. Aaron apparently was not always greeted warmly in his travels. In Japan, the government requested that the meetings be kept secret and that the press not be informed. Even the U.S. Embassy in Japan was less than enthusiastic -- the embassy suggested that Aaron and his delegation could take the airport bus to their hotel rather than be picked up by an embassy driver. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Mail Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 06:55:56 +0800 To: "Random Q. Hacker" Subject: Reba Performs What If Tonight! Message-ID: <19980126163925.39547423.in@mail.marthastewart.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Reba will perform "What If" tonight on the 25th American Music Awards! Reba is nominated for Favorite Female Country Artist! American Music Awards ABC -TV 8:00-11:00pm EST (Please check your local listings for times) RebaNews Copyright 1998 Starstruck Entertainment, All rights reserved. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Kent Crispin Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 14:29:05 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: State of the Union Address In-Reply-To: <199801241849.NAA17756@myriad> Message-ID: <19980126222308.60967@songbird.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Mon, Jan 26, 1998 at 09:36:59AM -0500, Rabid Wombat wrote: > > > > On Sat, 24 Jan 1998, Matthew Ghio wrote: > > > Anonymous wrote: > > > > > [1] Grab a totally random sample of 100 high school students. Haul the > > > students out one at a time and ask them the following questions: > > [snip] > > > 11) Michelle mixes one gram of HCl and one half gram of NaOH. Under normal > > > circumstances, what is produced and in what quantities? > > > > > > > The correct answer is an explosion and a big mess. One student in my high > > school chemistry class learned this the hard way. :) > > > > > > Um, salt water explodes? Well, if it was 40 grams of NaOH and 36.5 grams of HCl, then you would have 18 grams of water and 58.5 grams of NaCl. With 1g HCl to .5g NaOH, well, you have an acidic, salty, mess. However, HCl is a gas at STP, and NaOH is a solid... Basically, it's an incredibly poorly worded question. -- Kent Crispin, PAB Chair "No reason to get excited", kent@songbird.com the thief he kindly spoke... PGP fingerprint: B1 8B 72 ED 55 21 5E 44 61 F4 58 0F 72 10 65 55 http://songbird.com/kent/pgp_key.html From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 13:19:42 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: Signing video... (fwd) Message-ID: <199801270516.XAA31427@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 19:43:17 -0800 > From: Steve Schear > Subject: Re: Signing video... > >I was exchangin idea with a couple of members off-list and an idea came to > >me about how to time stamp the frames. It would require a minor modification > >to the WWV transmission but it wouldn't be much. Have the WWV transmitters > >sign each 'tick' of the clock and have a WWV receiver in the vcr. This would > >allow time stamping the frame with a signed reference that could be checked. > > Although this could reduce the cost and power consumption in the camera how > does this guarantee that the signature information wasn't inserted later. > With today's excellent digital postprocessing it could be very hard to > detect. The fact that it's hard is what makes it worth doing in some environments. The goal is to provide a reasonable doubt as to the validity of the picture on the tape. Don't know about cost and power consumption...but this is where I'm at on this issue now, by no means is it fully worked out: The actual signal on the tape can be mapped to a specific head mechanism using the same sorts of technology that is used to identify specific cell phones from the rf signature. So we can do an analysis of the signal and verify if a given camera striped the tape. Hysterisis, amplifier slew rates, power spectrum analysis, etc. The pattern of wow and flutter of any motor and drive mechanism is unique and can also be mapped to a specific mechanism. This wow and flutter creates regular and repeatable irregularities in the pattern on the tape. This allows us to match a drive mechanism to a specific program on a tape. Irregularities in the drive wheel will cause specific pattern in the way the stripes are laid down (ie wiggles in the same place each time that part of the wheel comes around). Irregularities in the syncronizing clocks in the tape mechanism can be traced to particular oscillators (usualy slew rate as a function of frequency stability). By signing the frames with a signed time reference we can verify which clock was used, though we can't verify that it wasn't recorded and played back at a later time. We can at least verify the tape wasn't stiped prior to the claimed time. For security applications this could be quite useful. So if we have a fully analog system there are several means to test the various parts of the systems to verify source veracity. We can also test the tape recording mechanism even on a digital or hybrid system. So let's look at hybrid systems where the video signal is source digital or is digitized in the camera (for special effects, etc.). If a frame isn't signed we don't trust it. So we have a camera with a ROM that has a signature. We could replace the code in the rom and keep the signature. If the owner doesn't replace the ROM prior to testing then we can easily verify the ROM and it's signature don't match. We don't even need the signature to do this, simple comparison between the rom that should be there versus the one that is present is enough. If they do replace the ROM then we have a frame that is signed but potentialy modified prior to the d/a conversion process. The question is can we in fact identify such non-linear editing? If the answer is no then there is a clear reason to suspect the validity of any video source that went through any sort of digital processing. I suspect the answer is no since this question is equivalent to signing a document that was modified prior to the signature being placed on it. The signature process only signs what was fed into the algorithm and can't detect changes to the document prior to the signing. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 14:02:15 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Organic Chemistry Lab Safety Message-ID: <199801270555.XAA31566@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Hi, The question was asked why mixing acids and bases are hazardous. Please note number 5 below. When an acid and base are mixed you get water and a salt. When water is added to acid (ie pouring a base into an acid) the heat of reaction can cause the water to get quite hot and cause the chemicals to splatter upon you. The idea is you want the acid to disolve in the water and not the other way around. Goggles, bibs, and all other reasonable safety precautions should always be used. Forwarded message: > X-within-URL: http://www.ems.uwplatt.edu/sci/chem/saf/safetyor.htm > ORGANIC CHEMISTRY LABORATORY SAFETY RULES > > * 1. Maintain a business-like attitude. Be prepared! Do not attempt > unauthorized experiments. > * 2. Wear safety goggles (eye protection) at all times when in the > laboratory. This is a departmental and state regulation. Do not > eat or drink in the lab or bring food or drink into the lab. > * 3. Know the location and use of the nearest fire extinguisher, > nearest First Aid kit, nearest eye wash station, nearest safety > shower, and nearest exit designated for evacuation. Know the > location of the Material Safety Data Sheets (MSDS) and know that > you have access to them. Know the NFPA (National Fire Protection > Association) Hazardous Material Classification Codes. > * 4. Report any accident, even minor injuries, to the instructor at > once. > * 5. When diluting acids, pour acid slowly and carefully into the > water with constant stirring. Use Pyrex and Kimax glassware and > NEVER add water to acid. Rinse acid or base Penny-Head stoppered > bottles under the faucet after each use. > * > 6. In the event that acid, base, or any corrosive liquid is spilled on > your person: > a) Flush immediately with running water at the sink. Call for > instructor. > b) Rinse area with 5% sodium bicarbonate solution. > c) Wash area with soap and water, blot dry with clean towel or > handkerchief. > d) Follow direction of lab supervisor. Check MSDS if you have > questions. > * 7. In case of an organic chemical spilled on your person, flush > with water, wash with soap, rinse with water, rinse with ethyl > alcohol, wash with soap, and rinse with water. Pat dry. Wash hands > before and after visiting toilet. Check MSDS if you have > questions. > * 8. Never taste chemicals or solutions. Minimize the inhalation of > organic vapors by using the smallest amounts of materials and > utilizing the hood as much as possible. Check MSDS if you have > questions. > * 9. Many organic compounds are either carcinogenic, mutagenic, > and/or teratogenic. Generally avoid aromatic amines and nitroso > compounds. Review the document on Chemical Exposure in Organic > Chemistry. Check the MSDS if you are not adequately aware of the > compound's properties. > * 10. In case of cuts or punctures, flush with running water, and > call for instructor or see stock room attendant on third floor for > First Aid. All punctures should be seen by the university nurse or > a physician! > * 11. Dispose of all wastes properly. Read labels on bottles! Keep > bench and floor clean. > * 12. Before leaving the laboratory, be sure that the water, steam, > heaters, and gas cocks are shut off. > > | Chemistry Home | UW-Madison Safety | sundin@uwplatt.edu | > > > Document Last Modified: August 26, 1997 > Copyright (c) 1998, University of Wisconsin - Platteville > ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 14:13:09 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Intel drops prices [CNN] Message-ID: <199801270558.XAA31625@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Company cuts price tag of older models > by up to 51 percent > > January 26, 1998: 9:14 p.m. ET > > > Intel > More related sites... SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - Semiconductor giant > Intel Corp. Monday unveiled its fastest version of the Pentium II > processor for desktop computers, servers and workstations and cut > prices on older chips by up to 51 percent. > [INLINE] Several major PC makers introduced new PCs, servers and > workstations around the new Pentium II chip, which runs at 333 > megahertz, and is priced at $721 each, in units of 1,000. > [INLINE] Hewlett-Packard Co., Packard Bell NEC Inc. and Gateway 2000 > Inc. unveiled new computers using the 333-megahertz processor on > Monday, some with prices starting at around $2,800. [text deleted] ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 14:05:16 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Computer makers speed up Internet [CNN] Message-ID: <199801270559.XAA31665@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > COMPUTER, PHONE COMPANIES SEEK TO SPEED INTERNET > > graphic January 26, 1998 > Web posted at: 9:46 p.m. EST (0246 GMT) > > WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Top computer firms Compaq, Intel and Microsoft > and leading telephone and networking companies Monday announced an > alliance to promote high-speed Internet links over ordinary phone > lines. > > Telephone companies banded together and sought support from the > high-tech giants to ward off a competing scheme for faster Internet > connections relying on cable television wires. > > The phone group said it will offer the International > Telecommunications Union, which sets industry standards, a uniform > method of connecting to the Internet using "asymmetric digital > subscriber line" technology, or ADSL. Equipment makers plan to offer > products based on the standard. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Bill Stewart Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 15:58:00 +0800 To: "cypherpunks@cyberpass.net> Subject: RE: Announcement: RPK InvisiMail released on 12 Jan, 1998 In-Reply-To: <01BD2A7C.342CBB60@joswald@rpkusa.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980127005058.0087ea90@popd.ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Thanks for an interesting perspective on working with NZ's export bureaucrats. At 04:59 PM 1/26/98 -0800, Jack Oswald wrote: >Bill - The technology that we export as part of RPK InvisiMail, is >world-class strong crypto. Key size options are 607 bits and 1279. The >math behind the system is based on the same as that of D-H. There is no >snake oil. There was no intentional or unintentional attempt to mislead >any government authority. We also did not request an export license, >because there is no need to do so in New Zealand as long as the export is >by means of the Internet. Peter G. knows this as well. The story may be >different for physical export on disk, disc or tape, although we cannot >concur with Peter's personal experience. Our experience is that we get >pretty good treatment from the NZ authorities. We also may use a different >approach. I have often heard that you can often get a better response when >using honey than vinegar. Therein may explain differences in our Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: bill.stewart@pobox.com Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 05:37:22 +0800 To: Blanc Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980127010704.007bc330@popd.ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain bAt 08:18 PM 1/27/98 -0800, Blanc wrote: >Vladimir Ze Cornflake inquired of TCM: > >>> Recall that a leading Cypherpunk was suspected >>>for a while as being the Unabomber. >> >>whoa, are you being facetious here or what? would you care to elaborate >>on that little tidbit? >................................................. >It was TCM himself. >(myself, I speculated it was Detweiler.) Eric Hughes was the Berkeley student of esoteric mathematics who was good at woodworking. He'd have been pretty young when he started his Life Of Crime, but he always was precocious :-) Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: id-center@verisign.com Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 22:06:09 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: NetCenter Member Services - VeriSign Digital ID Request Message-ID: <199801271354.FAA24086@lumbago.verisign.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Dear NetCenter Member: Thank you for requesting information about VeriSign Digital IDs from Netscape's Netcenter. A VeriSign Digital ID provides a means of proving your identity in electronic transactions, much like a driver license or a passport does in face-to-face interactions. By using your Verisign Digital ID you can: *Sign your e-mail. Recipients are assured that the information they receive is from you, and hasn't been altered in any way by outside tampering. *Encrypt and decrypt e-mail. This assures no one except the intended recipient can view its contents. 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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 21:48:56 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: State of the Union Address In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Rabid Wombat writes: > On Sat, 24 Jan 1998, Matthew Ghio wrote: > > > Anonymous wrote: > > > > > [1] Grab a totally random sample of 100 high school students. Haul the > > > students out one at a time and ask them the following questions: > > [snip] > > > 11) Michelle mixes one gram of HCl and one half gram of NaOH. Under norma > > > circumstances, what is produced and in what quantities? > > > > > > > The correct answer is an explosion and a big mess. One student in my high > > school chemistry class learned this the hard way. :) > > > > Um, salt water explodes? Where is Jim Bell when we need him? (Hell, where's Lorena Bobbt when we need her?) --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: members@feedme.org (feedME) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 22:12:55 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com (cypherpunks) Subject: feedME account Message-ID: <199801271349.IAA17868@thunder.ica.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain ----------------------------------------------------------- feedME - the world's easiest newsreader http://www.feedME.org ----------------------------------------------------------- Your Username is: cypherpunks Your Password is: kimkdqof If you have any problems, queries or suggestions please email: admin@feedme.org You should change your password as soon as possible (if you haven't already done so), the address for changing it is: http://www.feedme.org/changepass.html Remember that we don't allow anyone to SPAM through feedME, nor do we let people post any form of commerical or web-site advertisements - if you are unclear always mail admin. Regards, Michael Bennett Creator of feedME From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 00:35:00 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: Latest Clinton dodge? In-Reply-To: <199801271220.NAA29561@basement.replay.com> Message-ID: <8g3yJe1w165w@bwalk.dm.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) writes: > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM, Noted Penis Expert, wrote: > > > > "Roger J Jones" writes: > > > > > > Thanks for the info - while I am at it - has anyone ever disclosed > the > > > "distinguishing characteristic" that Paula Jones claims will prove > its Bubba > > > Bill? > > > > > Can you spell "curvature"? > > It figures that Dimitri would know this. He seems to know all > about Tim's and Sameer's and John Gilmore's penises too. Must be > all that extensive taste-testing... > > - Frondeur Bobbi Inman is a cocksucker. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Rabid Wombat Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 14:27:51 +0800 To: Ryan Anderson Subject: Re: State of the Union Address In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Tue, 27 Jan 1998, Ryan Anderson wrote: > On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Rabid Wombat wrote: > > > > > [1] Grab a totally random sample of 100 high school students. Haul the > > > > students out one at a time and ask them the following questions: > > > [snip] > > > > 11) Michelle mixes one gram of HCl and one half gram of NaOH. Under normal > > > > circumstances, what is produced and in what quantities? > > > > > > > > > > The correct answer is an explosion and a big mess. One student in my high > > > school chemistry class learned this the hard way. :) > > > > > Um, salt water explodes? > > >From my high-school chemistry, neutralization makes slatwater and a lot of > heat.... (Or that's what the teacher claimed)... Without a way to dump > the pressure generated this way, yes you could have an explosion... > Time to go back to high school. It's just a molocule swap. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 01:41:51 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: Physical Meet: Feb. 21 (fwd) Message-ID: <199801271736.LAA00348@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 11:28:34 -0600 > From: "Troy A. Bollinger" > Subject: Re: Physical Meet: Feb. 21 > Quoting Jim Choate (ravage@ssz.com): > > > > Ok, looks like the magic day is Saturday Feb. 21, 1998 from 6-7pm. > > > > So, now all we need is a place... > > > > Flipnotics worked last time. > > I'd like to suggest that everyone bring a printout of their PGP > fingerprint so we can sign each other's keys. I think I can make this one. I don't have any interest in signing or being signed however, thanks for the offer. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Mix Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 04:13:38 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199801271939.LAA19093@sirius.infonex.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain The only `culture' Timothy `C' Maypole possesses is that cultivated from his foreskin scrapings. ,/ \, ((__,-,,,-,__)), Timothy `C' Maypole `--)~ ~(--` .-'( )`-, `~~`d\ /b`~~` | | (6___6) `---` From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: John Blair Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 02:10:29 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: Latest Clinton dodge? In-Reply-To: <8g3yJe1w165w@bwalk.dm.com> Message-ID: <199801271757.LAA14080@frodo.tucc.uab.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- dlv@bwalk.dm.com said: >> It figures that Dimitri would know this. He seems to know all >> about Tim's and Sameer's and John Gilmore's penises too. Must be >> all that extensive taste-testing... >> >> - Frondeur > Bobbi Inman is a cocksucker. Ahh... I remember now why I re-subscribed to Cypherpunks. It was for all of the intelligent discussion that goes on here. At least back in the days of Detweiler the character assassination was creative and often fun to read. Can you please keep childish shots like this in private e-mail? It has no place in this mailing list. -john. ...................................................................... . . .....John.D.Blair... mailto:jdblair@uab.edu phoneto:205.975.7123 . . http://frodo.tucc.uab.edu faxto:205.975.7129 . ..sys|net.admin.... . . the university computer center ..... ..... g.e.e.k.n.i.k...the.university.of.alabama.at.birmingham.... -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBNM4gCgJjTpK3AXhBAQHC/QQArCwnCHSCzgmUGjGkGtAEtkwnsiq8rbF8 a8Ov/LKuFJslK8osLKawD+38nnY9Y3K4kvgnIT2EPRRrEzu2MxO7CKb2J/ly4QVZ xPbQ357GlmnCWmHvgECY7A20iPjgAO/z+8t9OEkCPv47E6C9+yzPdUXtWZ6Uwp4h uy/7Dm5eCkA= =nH/J -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Rabid Wombat Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 15:18:52 +0800 To: "Paul H. Merrill" Subject: Re: State of the Union Address In-Reply-To: <34CE676C.2B10424F@acm.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Tue, 27 Jan 1998, Paul H. Merrill wrote: > Rabid Wombat wrote: > > > > On Sat, 24 Jan 1998, Matthew Ghio wrote: > > > > > Anonymous wrote: > > > > > > > [1] Grab a totally random sample of 100 high school students. Haul the > > > > students out one at a time and ask them the following questions: > > > [snip] > > > > 11) Michelle mixes one gram of HCl and one half gram of NaOH. Under normal > > > > circumstances, what is produced and in what quantities? > > > > > > > > > > The correct answer is an explosion and a big mess. One student in my high > > > school chemistry class learned this the hard way. :) > > > > > > > > > > Um, salt water explodes? > > I guess those high school students aren't the only ones with no clear > idea of the way the world works. While salt water does not ordinarily > explode, in this case salt water is the ultimate product -- but massive > heat released when acids and bases join and recombine to produce salts > (in this case table salt) and water. > > while some do feel (especially on this list) that the ends justify the > means -- this is one means that definitely does not go along with that > "rule". > > PHM. > Actually the qustion is probably hosed, as the ratio should be 1:1 Hcl:NaOH mol, not weight (which would be about 10:9 Hcl:NaOH or so if I'm not confused here) ... the idea being that if you calculate and measure just right, you can mix too highly dangerous chemicals and will get saltwater which you can drink. If you don't measure just right, and drink it, you are rightly fucked, so don't try this at home. Can't find exact delta-h listed for NaOH, but rough guess on this reaction is maybe 150,000 - 175,000 joules, or about half a box of kitchen matches worth of heat (~150-175 btu ?), which wouldn't boil a quart of water. I suppose if you had a small enough solution you could get a small "bang" out of vaporizing the water. Not exactly a terrorist threat. A moderate amount of heat, but without increasing the number of molecules, where's the explosion? Am I missing something? Looks like warm saltwater to me. OTOH, I don't know anything about chemistry 'cuz I always got kicked outa class for doing dumber things than mixing Hcl and NaOH and drinking it, which is the usual stunt. Don't try this at home, and don't take chemistry advice from marsupials. btw - didn't really "do the math" on this, and it's 2am, so it could be wildly innacurate. -r.w. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Rabid Wombat Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 15:26:21 +0800 To: "Paul H. Merrill" Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Tue, 27 Jan 1998, Rabid Wombat wrote: > > > On Tue, 27 Jan 1998, Paul H. Merrill wrote: > > > Rabid Wombat wrote: > > > > > > On Sat, 24 Jan 1998, Matthew Ghio wrote: > > > > > > > Anonymous wrote: > > > > > > > > > [1] Grab a totally random sample of 100 high school students. Haul the > > > > > students out one at a time and ask them the following questions: > > > > [snip] > > > > > 11) Michelle mixes one gram of HCl and one half gram of NaOH. Under normal > > > > > circumstances, what is produced and in what quantities? > > > > > > > > > > > > > The correct answer is an explosion and a big mess. One student in my high > > > > school chemistry class learned this the hard way. :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Um, salt water explodes? > > > > I guess those high school students aren't the only ones with no clear > > idea of the way the world works. While salt water does not ordinarily > > explode, in this case salt water is the ultimate product -- but massive > > heat released when acids and bases join and recombine to produce salts > > (in this case table salt) and water. > > > > while some do feel (especially on this list) that the ends justify the > > means -- this is one means that definitely does not go along with that > > "rule". > > > > PHM. > > > > Actually the qustion is probably hosed, as the ratio should be 1:1 > Hcl:NaOH mol, not weight (which would be about 10:9 Hcl:NaOH or so if I'm > not confused here) ... the idea being that if you calculate and measure > just right, you can mix too highly dangerous chemicals and will get > saltwater which you can drink. If you don't measure just right, and drink > it, you are rightly fucked, so don't try this at home. > > Can't find exact delta-h listed for NaOH, but rough guess on this reaction > is maybe 150,000 - 175,000 joules, or about half a box of kitchen matches > worth of heat (~150-175 btu ?), which wouldn't boil a quart of water. I > suppose if you had a small enough solution you could get a small "bang" > out of vaporizing the water. Not exactly a terrorist threat. > > A moderate amount of heat, but without increasing the number of > molecules, where's the explosion? Am I missing something? Looks like warm > saltwater to me. OTOH, I don't know anything about chemistry 'cuz I > always got kicked outa class for doing dumber things than mixing Hcl and > NaOH and drinking it, which is the usual stunt. Don't try this at home, > and don't take chemistry advice from marsupials. > > btw - didn't really "do the math" on this, and it's 2am, so it could be > wildly innacurate. > > -r.w. > > Ooops, 178,000 joules w/ 1 mol each (about 36 grams Hcl & 40 grams NaOH), so the "one gram each" example (wrong unit of measure, btw), assuming about 1/40 the quantity, would be about 4450 joules, or about five kitchen matches. bfd. OTOH, IANAC(hemist). Looks like the answer to the original question would be "somewhat salty ammonium hydroxide", with the given quantities. Don't drink (drano) and drive. -r.w. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 03:11:40 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: RE: Latest Clinton dodge? In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980127090723.008012c0@206.40.207.40> Message-ID: <6V0yJe1w165w@bwalk.dm.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain David Honig writes: > At 07:11 PM 1/26/98 EST, you wrote: > >"Roger J Jones" writes: > > > >> > >> Thanks for the info - while I am at it - has anyone ever disclosed the > >> "distinguishing characteristic" that Paula Jones claims will prove its > Bubba > >> Bill? > >> > >Can you spell "curvature"? > > So you *do* have intimate knowledge of the president.... > but I won't tell :-) What is the difference between Bill Clinton and the Titanic? Only 1700 people went down on the Titanic. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 20:29:52 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Re: Latest Clinton dodge? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801271220.NAA29561@basement.replay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM, Noted Penis Expert, wrote: > > "Roger J Jones" writes: > > > > Thanks for the info - while I am at it - has anyone ever disclosed the > > "distinguishing characteristic" that Paula Jones claims will prove its Bubba > > Bill? > > > Can you spell "curvature"? It figures that Dimitri would know this. He seems to know all about Tim's and Sameer's and John Gilmore's penises too. Must be all that extensive taste-testing... - Frondeur -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0 Charset: noconv iQA/AwUBNM3QsFqnO6WRZ1UEEQIrVACfbPo6boIC96jtFuuZaqYGcAjYmOAAn1+W yk5WfpYk31L3iqqbkwXiN+hE =ElxL -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Ray Arachelian Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 02:56:58 +0800 To: cypherpunks MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > There's been some discussion recently on this news alias about how > Microsoft > handles key management (and some related topics) in CryptoAPI (more > specifically, the Microsoft base CSPs). Below is a document we've put > together to help answer these questions. > > Thanks, > -JasonG > > Product Manager, Windows NT Security > Microsoft Corporation > > > > Microsoft's Response to Recent Questions on the Recovery > of Private Keys from various Microsoft Products > > Recently, there has been discussion on some Internet forums about the > methods Microsoft uses to store private keys in some of its products, as > well as about CryptoAPI's role in key management. These discussions > included > some inaccurate information about the PFX and PKCS-12 formats, as well as > how Microsoft implements these formats in its products. > > This paper was prepared by the Microsoft Public Key Infrastructure team to > provide some additional insight and clarification on these issues, and in > some cases, identify long-term plans that Microsoft has to continue the > improvement of security in our products. > > CryptoAPI > One area to clarify at the outset is the role of CryptoAPI. Implications > that any key management problem on Microsoft's Internet products would be > an > example of fundamental problems with CryptoAPI are absolutely inaccurate. > CryptoAPI is a set of cryptographic technologies that are provided for use > by other software--sort of a cryptographic toolbox. The actual > cryptographic > functions are provided through Cryptographic Service Providers (CSPs), > which > are implemented as DLLs. With the exception of the details about a > possible > PKCS-12 attack, all the issues raised in the recent discussions are > specifically aimed at Microsoft's base CSPs, not at CryptoAPI. The base > CSPs are the royalty-free, software-based CSPs provided with Windows NT > 4.0, > Windows 95, and Internet Explorer. These attacks do not apply in general > to > other CryptoAPI CSPs and do not indicate any fundamental concerns with the > security of the CryptoAPI architecture or applications built upon it. > > PFX/PKCS-12 > Microsoft products do not "store" private key material using PKCS-12, > contrary to recent descriptions on the Internet. For clarification, > PKCS-12 > is a standard format, used for export/import of Public Key Certificates > and > related key material. At present, the only Microsoft product that > supports > use of this format is Microsoft Internet Explorer 4.x. Internet Explorer > uses PKCS-12 solely as a means of migrating a user's Certificate and > public-private key pair between multiple Internet Explorer installations > or > between Internet Explorer and other products, such as Netscape > Communicator. > > > Some background might help. Microsoft originally developed the draft > specification for an encrypted export/import format, referred to as PFX, > but > the PFX specification was never implemented by Microsoft. Instead, the > PFX > specification was handed over to RSA Labs and it became the draft PKCS-12 > specification. The design was then reviewed, and contributed to, by a > number of other companies to arrive at the current PKCS-12 standard. > Microsoft and Netscape have both implemented PKCS-12 with 40-bit > encryption. > This was done to provide a common, exportable solution that was completely > interoperable. > > The example of breaking a PKCS-12 data blob, which was given in discussion > on the Internet, is not an attack on the "weak" cryptography of PKCS-12. > Rather, it is simply a dictionary attack (long known and well understood > in > cryptography), which works well if people use poorly-chosen passwords to > protect the PKCS-12 data blob. Examples of such bad passwords include > words > in the English dictionary. In our implementation of PKCS-12, we could > possibly do some things to make brute-force attack against an exported > PKCS-12 data blob more difficult. For example, performing a dictionary > check > on the password before accepting it for encrypting the data blob would > reduce the use of weak passwords. Alternatively, we could iterate the > setup > function to increase "diversity" making it much more expensive for an > attacker to search. However, neither of these methods are required for > protection of the data blob. Good security is always a combination of > technology and policy. As part of a strong security policy, strong > passwords > should be used on all resources. The Microsoft Security Advisor website > (http://www.microsoft.com/security) has some guidelines for choosing > strong > passwords. > > One statement by the original poster argues that Microsoft managed to > design > a security format that actually makes it easier to break into the > protected > data. As stated above, a number of well respected companies were involved > extensively in the design and review of PKCS-12 before it became a > standard. > An iteration count, which would make the type of attack described above > more > difficult (in terms of time), was added late in the PKCS-12 evolution. It > was, however, too late to make it into the Internet Explorer 4 product > release. Future versions of Internet Explorer will include support for the > an iteration count, further strengthening the security of exported key > material. > > Of course, in general the PKCS-12 data objects will not be available on a > user's machine, since they are only used by Internet Explorer 4.x when > exporting key material to, or importing key material from another system. > As > with any sensitive data, users should take care when working PKCS-12 data > blobs and not leave them on their hard drives. > > Exploiting Internet Explorer > One of the fundamental requirements to perform any possible cryptographic > attack discussed in the recent postings is the assumption that a malicious > entity could somehow access to data on a user's computer system, without > the > permission or knowledge of the user. This is a large leap of faith. > Users > that are using Public Key Certificates today are generally sophisticated > and > savvy users, or part of a larger corporate infrastructure with > knowledgeable > administrators. This class of users will certainly keep abreast of current > security issues and install security-related patches and updates as they > become available. Microsoft has been extremely responsive in dealing with > all known Internet Explorer security attacks and has posted patches for > all > currently known attacks. And, of course, security issues are certainly not > limited to Microsoft software. > > Information on security-related issues with Microsoft products is > available > on the Microsoft Security Advisor website at > http://www.microsoft.com/security. > > Attacks against Authenticode signing keys > Another concern identified was that if a malicious hacker could steal a > user's or company's Authenticode signing key, that hacker could sign > objects > with that key and distribute them. Then when other users tried to download > the signed object, they would think the key's owner really signed the > object, which might contain malicious code. The Authenticode program has > been designed to ensure that only trusted programs are allowed to run on a > users machine. As stated earlier Microsoft has been very responsive is > addressing security issues with IE. > > However, it is extremely unlikely anyone could be successful with a > simplistic strategy for stealing Authenticode signing keys and then using > them. As noted above, there are security patches already released for > known > Internet Explorer bugs that could possibly allow a key blob to be stolen > off > a user's hard disk (assuming a user left an Authenticode 'key' file on > their > hard disk). Second, anyone signing code using Authenticode technology is > extremely unlikely to leave their key material sitting on an end user > machine routinely used for browsing the Internet. > > Microsoft recommends storing key material, such as that used in > Authenticode, in hardware tokens. Such tokens prevent any of these attacks > from getting started as the keys are not stored in the PC and are not > exportable. The Authenticode signing keys that Microsoft uses for all our > software, for instance, are stored in such a physical hardware key storage > mechanism. > > Attacks on Encrypted Key material > There is some confusion over the algorithms and methods that Microsoft > uses > to provide protection of encrypted key material in Internet Explorer when > using the standard Microsoft base CSPs. There were changes between > Internet > Explorer 3.0x and Internet Explorer 4.x specifically to address any > possible > concern. Note, this concern is unlikely to be valid for any third-party > software CSP and is not relevant to hardware CSPs. > > Microsoft is constantly working to improve the security of our products. > We > determined that there were better suited methods for storing keys than > using > the RSA RC4 stream cipher algorithm used in Internet Explorer 3.0x. In > particular, a stream cipher, such as RC4, is not ideally suited for this > particular use because it can be susceptible to a "known-keystream > attack". > In a known-keystream attack, if you know the plain text, which you > arguably > might be able to determine given the number of standard PKCS-8 fields, you > can recover the keystream. If you recover the keystream, then a XOR > function will indeed decrypt anything else encrypted with the same key. > However, Microsoft only used this RC4-based implementation in the base > CSPs > that shipped with Internet Explorer 3.0x. The CSPs that shipped in > Internet > Explorer 4.x protect private key material in a form that is encrypted > using > DES, which is a block cipher and is not susceptible to the known-keystream > attack that can be used against RC4. > > Again, note that this kind of attack assumes some degree of security > breach > on the user's system such that the keystream could be obtained. > > Key export attacks > The original Internet posting raises concern about the CryptoAPI interface > CryptExportKey(). This function is fully documented and does indeed > export > private key material in an encrypted format. The presence of the > CryptExportKey() function is to support functionality such as migrating > key > material between machines for a user or creating a backup copy of a key. > It > should be noted however, that many CSPs, including most hardware based > CSPs, > do not allow exportable private keys and will return and error in response > to a CryptExportKey() request. > > Also, Microsoft's base software CSPs provide a means to mark keys as > non-exportable when they are generated. An additional security protection > is provided if the flag CRYPT_USER_PROTECTED is set, in which case each > use > of the private key, including export, requires the user to supply a > password > to access the key. Some commercial CAs are not currently setting this > flag > and do not provide the user a way to request it during Certificate > enrollment. We recognize this as a problem. We will continue working > with > CAs to assist them in supporting these security features. However, we > will > also make available a utility to allow setting this flag after key > generation for users concerned with this type of attack. > > The posting also asserts that an ActiveX control could be downloaded from > a > web page, simply ask for the current users key, ship the key off for > collection by an unscrupulous person, and then delete itself without a > trace. > > If users run unsigned code, or code from an unknown origin, a number of > unpleasant things can happen. This could indeed occur if the key as been > marked exportable and the CRYPT_USER_PROTECTED flag is not set. However, > such a scenario assumes that the user follows few or no policies with > regard > to good security, such as running code from unknown sources. Similarly, if > the user were running software from unknown/untrusted sources, that > software > could reformat their hard drive, or manipulate other user data. This > concept > is certainly not new. > > There was also discussion of 16 dialog boxes appearing to the user for > their > password if the CRYPT_USER_PROTECTED flag is set. Certainly asking the > user > too many times would be better than too few times, however in our tests, > under extreme (and uncommon cases), a user might be asked for their > password > at most four times when a key is used with the Microsoft base CSPs. > Perhaps > the claim came from an early beta release. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Users Guide http://www.microsoft.com/sitebuilder/resource/mailfaq.asp > contains important info including how to unsubscribe. Save time, search > the archives at http://microsoft.ease.lsoft.com/archives/index.html From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Ray Arachelian Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 02:57:57 +0800 To: cypherpunks MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 14:05:57 -0500 From: Salvatore DeNaro To: Ray Arachelian Subject: Forward this to the list? *** Swedish police weed out hackers 2 young Swedish hackers who turned a Swedish county's home page into an advertisement for pornography and marijuana and broke into the U.S. space agency's computer system have been tracked down, local media reported. After a yearlong hunt, police in Umea in northern Sweden finally traced the 2 youths, aged 18 and 15, and seized their computers, the newspaper Vasterbottens Folkblad said Wednesday. Police were quoted as saying no charges would be laid because no economic crime had been committed. See http://www.infobeat.com/stories/cgi/story.cgi?id=7065918-55d From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Ray Arachelian Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 03:01:46 +0800 To: Declan McCullagh Subject: Re: Latest Clinton dodge? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Declan McCullagh wrote: > > Clinton said this morning: > > >>>> > I want you to listen to me. I'm > going to say this again. I did not have sexual relations with that > woman, Miss Lewinsky. I never told anybody to lie, not a single time > -- never. These allegations are false. > <<<< > > The question then becomes, of course, what does "sexual relations" mean? > > Is it oral sex? Next thing you know, he'll say "She gave me a blow job, but didn't swallow, so it's not sex." :) =====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos============== .+.^.+.| Ray Arachelian |Prying open my 3rd eye. So good to see |./|\. ..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were |/\|/\ <--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run |\/|\/ ../|\..| "A toast to Odin, |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/. .+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were.... |..... ======================= http://www.sundernet.com ========================== From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "John Kelsey" Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 06:57:59 +0800 To: "Adam Back" Subject: future proofing algorithms Message-ID: <199801272251.QAA01965@email.plnet.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- [ To: Cypherpunks, Adam Back ## Date: 01/26/98 ## Subject: future proofing algorithms ] >Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 01:18:31 GMT >From: Adam Back >Subject: future proofing algorihtms (Re: (eternity) Eternity > as a secure filesystem/backup medium) >It is interesting to note that Tim May's recent suggestion >of LAM (Local Area Mixes) would help here because if 5 of >those mixmaster nodes where part of a LAM, it is unlikely >that the NSA would be able to archive inter remailer >traffic, thus increasing effective pool size to 100^5. So >one advantage of the LAM approach is that it provides links >which are protected by physical security. This is a good point. The crypto looks like the strongest link in the chain right now, but if it turns out not to be, reliance on local physical security isn't a bad idea. (This works only if the huge numbers of the local machines must be subverted for an attack to work; if the attacker has to take over only a couple machines, he can probably manage this.) Discovering a better way to bypass my physical security today doesn't let you know who sent what last year, and security guards don't become retroactively twice as cheap to bribe every eighteen months. >> Note that, in practice, this isn't likely to be useful >> unless you've done the same kind of thing for symmetric key >> distribution, random number generation, etc. Otherwise, >> your attacker in 2050 will bypass the symmetric encryption >> entirely and factor your RSA modulus, or guess all the >> entropy sources used for your PRNG, or whatever else you can >> think of. >Yes. We need to build constructs for all areas. A mega >hash would be nice, with a large output size even in the >face of birthday attack, preferably as secure as a >collection of hash functions. Right. I've seen some work done on this, mostly informally. The basic result I'm aware of with hash functions is like this: Let f() and g() be two different hash functions, such as SHA1 and RIPE-MD160. Let X,Y be the concatenation of X and Y. Then: Hash1(X) = f(X),g(X) Hash2(X) = f(g(X)),g(f(X)) You can quickly convince yourself that Hash1(X) is at least as resistant to collision as the stronger of f() and g(), but it's only as resistant as the weaker of the two to leaking information about X. (That is, if f(X) just gives you the low 160 bits of X, then Hash1(X) gives you the same thing.) Hash2() won't leak information unless both f() and g() leak information about their inputs, but you can't guarantee that it will be very good against collisions. (That is, if f(X) = 0 for all X, then all possible X values cause a collision in Hash2(X).) If f() and g() are independent, and one of them looks like a random function of X, then Hash3(X) = f(X) XOR g(X) looks pretty good. But it's possible for either f() or g() to be non-reversible without Hash3() being nonreversible. (The obvious case occurs when you think of something like f(X) = X g(X) = encrypt_{knownKey}(X) XOR X. Note that g() looks rather like some existing hash functions, where encrypt() is a known function. >That gives us something to wash our pseudo random number >input entropy with, and then we can go on to combine public >key systems. Right. Choosing the PRNG well is important, but I suspect that the real issue is going to be getting enough input entropy. If you can get 80 bits of real entropy today, you have a reasonably secure system now, but NSA may not find your system that secure in twenty years. For resistance to cryptanalysis, we can use the same set of stream ciphers as before. If we run Blowfish, 3DES, and SAFER-SK128 in OFB-mode, and XOR the streams together, we get an output stream that's no easier to predict than the weakest of the three ciphers used. Entropy collection on a wide range of different machines, without specialized hardware, is just a hard thing to do well. It's especially hard if you're postulating a massively powerful attacker years in the future. >A problem with public key systems however is that there >isn't a lot of choice -- basically all based on discrete log >or factoring. So perhaps RSA and DH combined in a construct >with an optimistically proportioned key size would be near >all that could be done. That sounds about right. Note that LAMs and such can use shared symmetric keys along with the public keys, so that an attacker has to get both to defeat the system. When the number of mixes is small, maybe some informal password-sharing at conferences might help this. For LAMs, some level of hand-carried key exchange can be used. Then, actual keys can be encrypted as RSA(R_0), ElGamal(R_1) are sent Previously shared secret key K_2 is known. Session Key = SK = E_{K_2}(R_0) XOR E_{K_2}(R_2). Also note that DH should probably be used with many different prime moduli, to resist any massive precomputation on one modulus. Maybe each mix could have several expensively-prepared Sophie Germaine primes, and senders could randomly select one for DH or El Gamal encryption. This would spread out a future attacker's resources, though of course, the attacker's effort scales only linearly in the number of (expensive to find) primes. >I suspect archiving world Network traffic would pose >something of a operational and financial strain :-) On the other hand, perhaps this is how NSA will pay their employees' salaries once crypto becomes sufficiently widespread: They will start a search engine service on all those archives of usenet/internet traffic for all these years: ``Check up on your political opponents' newsreading habits. Read the love letters of libertarian activists in the 90s. Find out whether Chief Justice Clarence Thomas ever visits adult web sites these days. *Only* at http://www.archives.nsa.org '' It would actually be very funny if historians in a couple centuries got access to the NSA's archives of recorded phone calls, telegrams, and e-mails. Imagine the odd assumptions that would result, with history students having this image of twentieth century america based on recorded phone calls of anarchists, antiwar activists, civil rights activists, communists, important politicians, mobsters, suspected spies, and wealthy businessmen. >Adam Note: I read CP-LITE instead of the whole list. Please CC me on replies. - --John Kelsey, kelsey@counterpane.com / kelsey@plnet.net NEW PGP print = 5D91 6F57 2646 83F9 6D7F 9C87 886D 88AF -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.2 iQCVAwUBNM5efSZv+/Ry/LrBAQGN8wP/aHKJbm024oDMNZIozcBGW+Vt4bKKLDoZ xhV6DQ3e4v9UadYJeKpCfRjrMDC06H6eP3D4E8vizEHVk2JCvHDTN3Fshf5pOtB2 tgrooYOP1pC5FuQAPPyhkJ840V7ve0mlpy3VWz5/hSvkkP1BW7KHoFv47sniVHZe RFsiz/hW7jc= =2Oml -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Paul H. Merrill" Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 04:14:50 +0800 To: Rabid Wombat Subject: Re: State of the Union Address In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <34CE676C.2B10424F@acm.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Rabid Wombat wrote: > > On Sat, 24 Jan 1998, Matthew Ghio wrote: > > > Anonymous wrote: > > > > > [1] Grab a totally random sample of 100 high school students. Haul the > > > students out one at a time and ask them the following questions: > > [snip] > > > 11) Michelle mixes one gram of HCl and one half gram of NaOH. Under normal > > > circumstances, what is produced and in what quantities? > > > > > > > The correct answer is an explosion and a big mess. One student in my high > > school chemistry class learned this the hard way. :) > > > > > > Um, salt water explodes? I guess those high school students aren't the only ones with no clear idea of the way the world works. While salt water does not ordinarily explode, in this case salt water is the ultimate product -- but massive heat released when acids and bases join and recombine to produce salts (in this case table salt) and water. while some do feel (especially on this list) that the ends justify the means -- this is one means that definitely does not go along with that "rule". PHM. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Robert Hettinga Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 04:18:00 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: sat survailience Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain --- begin forwarded text Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 14:55:09 -0500 From: Somebody Subject: sat survailience To: rah MIME-version: 1.0 Bob - something else to be paranoid about! When Is a Satellite Photo An Unreasonable Search? By Staff Reporter of Over the years, satellite photos have plotted the course of Soviet warships and tracked the movements of Iraqi troops. Last year, they also nailed Floyd Dunn for growing cotton on his Arizona farm allegedly without an irrigation permit. Mr. Dunn contends that he did have the required permits but paid the $4,000 fine to maintain good relations with the Arizona Department of Water Resources. "You can't argue with a satellite," he says. "Being caught like I was caught is kind of unfair." As state and local agencies make more use of satellite imagery -- for everything from surveying illicit crops to detecting unauthorized building -- they're raising questions about the propriety of spying on American civilians from the sky. "It certainly has a 'Big Brother Is Watching You' flavor to it," says Larry Griggers, a director at the Georgia Department of Revenue. "But it prevents us from having to spend money for other types of enforcement." The state tax authority plans to use National Aeronautic and Space Administration satellites to check all 58,910 squares miles of the state for unreported timber cutting. It also plans to share the photos with any state agency that asks, which could lead to a wide variety of enforcement actions. Does taking satellite photos of private citizens and their property -- generally without their knowledge -- violate the Constitution's Fourth Amendment protections against unreasonable searches? The American Bar Association has organized a task force to explore that question, as well as such issues as how long photos can be kept on file and how freely they can be shared with police. Because U.S. Justice Department officials are on the task force, the recommendations are expected to influence how law-enforcement authorities and civil agencies use the new images and at what point they require warrants. Use of satellite images has increased markedly since the early 1990s, when the Russian space agency, Sovinformsputnik, began selling spy-quality photos to raise cash. The U.S. lifted its own restrictions on sale of high-resolution satellite photos in 1994, which encouraged entrepreneurs to launch satellites of their own that could compete with the Russian imagery. Those efforts may soon pay off. This year a joint venture of Lockheed Martin Corp. and Raytheon Co. hopes to launch a satellite that will yield imagery detailed enough to distinguish sedans from minivans. Another firm, Earthwatch Inc. of Longmont, Colo., says it is proceeding with plans to launch a similar satellite in 1999 -- despite the recent loss of radio contact with a less-advanced model the firm launched in December. Both enterprises decline to discuss their public-sector clients. Some state and local agencies have been purchasing photos from French, Indian and U.S. government satellites since the 1980s, and increasingly powerful computer software is allowing them to make better use of the imagery. The Arizona Department of Water Resources spotted Mr. Dunn's cotton crop, for example, because it routinely obtains photographs from the French government's SPOT satellites of 750,000 acres of central Arizona farmland. State officials then compare the images with a database of water-use permits to determine which farmers might be exceeding water-use rules. "A week doesn't go by where somebody doesn't propose a new use," says John Hoffman, whose Raleigh, N.C., business, Aerial Images Inc., has become the main reseller of images taken by Russian intelligence satellites. Much of what Mr. Hoffman has available is old imagery of Western cities. But he says he can also take orders for new photos on upcoming missions. Price: $6,500 to photograph 10 square kilometers with resolution of about six feet, which he says is sharp enough to distinguish cars from pickup trucks. In North Carolina several counties are using Mr. Hoffman's photos to find unreported building activities, agricultural development and other property improvements that would raise property-tax assessments. Demand from state and local agencies in his region is so strong, he says, that Sovinformsputnik, the Russian space agency, has scheduled a Feb. 17 launch of a satellite that will concentrate mainly on photographing the Southeastern U.S. Pictures taken from airplanes at lower altitudes are often more revealing, but satellite imagery can be much more cost-effective. Photographing an area the size of a small town, for example, can cost tens of thousands of dollars by airplane, approximately twice the cost by satellite. Some satellite imagery is faster as well. Although the satellites Mr. Hoffman works with use conventional film that is developed after the satellite returns to earth, newer camera platforms can transmit images digitally just minutes after they are taken. To date, there have been few legal challenges to the use of satellite imagery. But the technology of overhead photography is evolving faster than the law. Courts have allowed government officials to take detailed pictures from airplanes flying as low as 1,200 feet. And in 1986, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency was permitted to photograph a Dow Chemical facility in Midland, Mich., because the EPA used relatively conventional airplane-camera equipment. But the high court raised a red flag in that case: "It may well be ... that surveillance of private property by using highly sophisticated surveillance equipment not generally available to the public, such as satellite technology, might be constitutionally proscribed absent a warrant." The ABA task force is exploring just these questions. Sheldon Krantz, chair of the task force and a partner at Piper & Marbury LLP in Washington, says that it will propose in April that law-enforcement agencies be required to obtain warrants to use "satellite cameras [that] can focus on images of a few feet across." That standard would probably include most advanced satellite images, although the task force has yet to agree on more specific definitions. "We need to make some big value judgments about these practices before they become so widespread," says Mr. Krantz. Some businesses say they welcome oversight from space. Georgia-Pacific Corp. and other big timber concerns support the Georgia Department of Revenue's forest survey, saying it will help to disprove accusations that they have secretly cut trees without paying taxes. Several small timber owners already have been fined a total of $2,000 in a test of the statewide program that took place in Wayne County, near Savannah. And as sharper-resolution photos become available, some Georgia officials suggest the program could be used to look for objects as small as backyard porches, to check if homeowners have their construction permits in order. --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/ Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 05:36:54 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: update.356 (fwd) Message-ID: <199801272132.PAA01922@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: >From physnews@aip.org Tue Jan 27 15:31:03 1998 Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 08:46:26 -0500 From: physnews@aip.org (AIP listserver) Message-Id: <199801271346.IAA15741@aip.org> To: physnews-mailing@aip.org Subject: update.356 PHYSICS NEWS UPDATE The American Institute of Physics Bulletin of Physics News Number 356 January 27, 1998 by Phillip F. Schewe and Ben Stein LOCALIZATION OF LIGHT has been achieved by an Amsterdam- Florence collaboration (contact Ad Lagendijk, adlag@phys.uva.nl). Consider the movement of light through a diffuse medium such as milk, fog, or sugar. The light waves scatter repeatedly, and the transmission of light decreases as the light gets reflected. In the Amsterdam-Florence experiment something different happens. By using a gallium-arsenide powder with a very high index of refraction but with very low absorption at near infrared (wavelength of 1064 nm), the researchers were, in a sense, able to get the light to stand still. That is, the light waves get into the medium and bounce around in a standing wave pattern, without being absorbed. This is the first example of "Anderson localization" for near-visible light. This medium is not what would be called a "photonic bandgap" material (analogous to a semiconductor for electrons) but more like a "photonic insulator." (Wiersma et al., Nature, 18/25 December 1997; see also www.aip.org/physnews/graphics) QUANTUM EVAPORATION occurs in a new experiment when a beam of phonons (little pulses of sound issuing from a warm filament) inside a pool of superfluid helium-4 is aimed at the liquid surface from below. In analogy with the photoelectric effect (in which light ejects electrons from a surface), the phonons pop helium atoms up out of the liquid. By measuring the momenta of the phonons and the evaporated atoms, one can determine that the atoms originally had zero momentum parallel to the surface, demonstrating directly (for the first time) that the He-4 atoms had been part of a Bose-Einstein condensate (BEC), in which the atoms fall into a single quantum state. Theories of superfluid He-4 had supposed that the atoms reside in a BEC state, but this had not been experimentally verified until now. The researcher, Adrian Wyatt of the University of Exeter, believes this method can be used to generate beams of coherent helium atoms (an "atom laser" effect). (Nature, 1 January 1998.) ANOTHER VERSION OF QUANTUM TELEPORTATION is being published by researchers in Italy and England (Francesco DeMartini, University of Rome, demartini@axcasp.caspur.it). Like the Innsbruck teleportation scheme published several weeks earlier (Update 351), this demonstration employs a pair of entangled photons. Whereas the Innsbruck experiment teleported the polarization value of a third, distinct "message photon" to one of the entangled photons, the Rome scheme encodes one of the entangled photons with a specific polarization state and transmits this state to the other entangled photon. Although different from the Innsbruck experiment (which had a 25% teleportation success rate) and the original theoretical proposal for teleportation, this scheme works 100% of the time if the receiver applies the right transformations on the second photon. (D. Boschi et al., upcoming article in Physical Review Letters). In another, theoretical paper, Sam Braunstein of the University of Wales (Bangor) and Jeff Kimble of Caltech propose an experimental method for extending quantum teleportation from transmitting discrete variables such as polarization to transmitting continuous variables like the amplitude of the electric field associated with a light wave. (Braunstein et al., Phys. Rev. Lett., 26 January 1998.) From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tony Iannotti Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 04:40:44 +0800 To: Anonymous Subject: Re: Ultra computer In-Reply-To: <1c103cd4daa62b5cabf50f16f87903e1@anon.efga.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, Anonymous wrote: > Go back to the sushi bar and read your English book. Chop chop. Although I would have preferred a web cite, and harder performance specs, I think the information is relevant to advancing cryptanalytic hardware attacks. Accordingly, I go to NEC website now myself, chop chop. (Don't care about Misty anymore, and regurgitating Tim's Japan-speak caricature isn't furthering anything.) > >Ultra computer which NEC had the calculation speed of the world > >maximum of about 1000 times of the super computer to was decided > >to be developed. > >Ultra computer will be completed in 2001. > >It has the performance that the calculation which takes 10000 years > >with the personal computer is made of 3, 4 days. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Declan McCullagh Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 04:48:01 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Privacy and presidential philandering, from the Netly News Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain ******** http://cgi.pathfinder.com/netly/opinion/0,1042,1714,00.html The Netly News (http://netlynews.com/) January 27, 1998 Private Parts by Declan McCullagh (declan@well.com) Already you can hear the plaintive sound of President Clinton's partisans whining about privacy. The allegations about Will's wandering willy are too intimate, too sensitive and (if the truth be told) too embarrassing to be discussed publicly, they claim. Yesterday the wire services were busy recycling Hillary Clinton's plea for a "zone of privacy"; a Clinton defender wrote in USA Today that nobody should be "inflicting the details of his sex life on the public"; a piece in the New York Times complained about a "fishing expedition into the President's sexual history." On NBC's Today show, Hillary groused about living in "a time where people are malicious and evil-minded." On many electronic mailing lists, the talk nowadays seems to be of little else. "The current pursuit of Clinton -- whatever the facts turn out to be -- strikes me, itself, as an obscenity," griped Edward Kent on a First Amendment list. "We need more protections of privacy in this country." Michael Troy replied, "I don't think there is a constitutional right to privacy for an employer (who is also a public figure) having sex with an employee in the workplace." He's right. The call for greater "privacy protections" is a call for censorship in disguise. [...] From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 05:59:06 +0800 To: Subject: New Plan for America!!!!! Message-ID: <199801272150.PAA17408@pc1824.ibpinc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Tonight at the State of the Union I will announce my new plan for America - "Swallow the Leader" From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 23:03:15 +0800 To: tomw@netscape.com Subject: Re: Netscape 5 will be GPL'ed In-Reply-To: <34CD53FD.363A9C8C@netscape.com> Message-ID: <199801271453.PAA17516@basement.replay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 07:26 PM 1/26/98 -0800, Tom Weinstein wrote: >Markus Kuhn wrote: >> root wrote on 1998-01-23 01:29 UTC: >> >>> [Press Releases] >>> http://www.netscape.com/newsref/pr/newsrelease558.html?cp=nws01flh1 >>> >>> NETSCAPE ANNOUNCES PLANS TO MAKE NEXT-GENERATION COMMUNICATOR SOURCE >>> CODE AVAILABLE FREE ON THE NET >> > >Don't hold your breath. We're still bound by US export regulations, so >we won't be able to export crypto-relevant source code. We'll release what >we can, but you probably won't be satisfied. > >Of course, there's always the option for some enterprising individuals >outside the US to replace the missing pieces. Or you can print those sections in a book and let some enterprising foreigners OCR scan them. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 06:10:12 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: [Fwd: Check this out!] (fwd) Message-ID: <199801272206.QAA02182@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: >From stugreen@bga.com Tue Jan 27 16:01:14 1998 Sender: root@coney.lsd-labs.com Message-ID: <34CE5A63.9D29DD2@bga.com> Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 16:06:27 -0600 From: Stu Green X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01GoldC-Caldera (X11; I; Linux 2.0.33 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ravage@ssz.com Subject: [Fwd: Check this out!] Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mail1.realtime.net (mail1.realtime.net [205.238.128.217]) by zoom.bga.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA14988 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 12:39:17 -0600 Received: (qmail 13392 invoked from network); 27 Jan 1998 18:39:14 -0000 Received: from isdn5-69.ip.realtime.net (HELO bga.com) (205.238.160.69) by mail1.realtime.net with SMTP; 27 Jan 1998 18:39:14 -0000 Message-ID: <34CE2AD0.F3822BFE@bga.com> Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 12:43:28 -0600 From: David Neeley X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: stugreen@bga.com Subject: Check this out! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In case you don't get an e-mail newsletter called "Tasty Bits from the Technology Front" I offer for your enjoyment: ..A warning on Microsoft (in)security Basic crypto weakness undermines all claims to security, expert says Longtime readers know that TBTF has been reporting on security weak- nesses in Microsoft's products, particularly Internet Explorer, for more than a year [25]. Now a security expert from New Zealand, Peter Gutmann, has posted a paper [26] claiming that the flaws are so ser- ious that Windows 95 users should entirely refrain from using the Web. Among the problems Gutmann points out is a critical weakness in the way Microsoft software protects (or does not protect) users' master encryption key; this weakness undermines all other encryp- tion components in Web servers and browsers. Gutmann outlines how a cracker could quietly retrieve the private key from a victim's ma- chine and break the encryption that "protects" it in a matter of seconds. The attacker has, Gutmann says, then "effectively stolen [the user's] digital identity, and can use it to digitally sign contracts and agreements, to recover every encryption session key it has ever protected in the past and will ever protect in the future, to access private and confidential email, and so on." TechWeb coverage is here [27]. [25] http://www.tbtf.com/resource/ms-sec-exploits.html [26] http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/breakms.txt [27] http://www.techweb.com/wire/story/TWB19980123S0007 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: John Blair Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 06:30:12 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: opinion of Crypt::DES & Crypt::IDEA Message-ID: <199801272221.QAA16124@frodo.tucc.uab.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hello, Does anybody on this list have an opinion of the quality of the Crypt::DES and Crypt::IDEA perl modules? I'm concerned with whether or not the modules use electronic code book instead of cipher block chaining encryption mode. The documentation does not make this clear. If nobody knows the answer to this I'll figure it out from the source code. However, I suspected I could save some time by asking here. Besides this question, does anybody have an opinion of the quality of these routines? I'm not asking for opinions regarding the quality or lack of quality of DES or IDEA, but of these particular implementations. thanks much, -john. ...................................................................... . . .....John.D.Blair... mailto:jdblair@uab.edu phoneto:205.975.7123 . . http://frodo.tucc.uab.edu faxto:205.975.7129 . ..sys|net.admin.... . . the university computer center ..... ..... g.e.e.k.n.i.k...the.university.of.alabama.at.birmingham.... -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBNM5d0QJjTpK3AXhBAQGN6QQAr14AZWWRPrRx4vRMTtecboL66rz2kmby +d5E1troSBDDvxkdpbsg4PhS05KEDrRJjjoCHUWDQlGeZ5RTsJUCgLOi1plXKsml K5oDqyEToa7AKazwcPC9DZj8JNf0/oNuZfWKw1cPW4r/QCmZI6DmdDb1xz3OFC+m 7+Okl/YERiU= =KxmH -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 08:30:49 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: Latest Clinton dodge? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Ray Arachelian writes: > > On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Declan McCullagh wrote: > > > > > Clinton said this morning: > > > > >>>> > > I want you to listen to me. I'm > > going to say this again. I did not have sexual relations with that > > woman, Miss Lewinsky. I never told anybody to lie, not a single time > > -- never. These allegations are false. > > <<<< > > > > The question then becomes, of course, what does "sexual relations" mean? > > > > Is it oral sex? > > Next thing you know, he'll say "She gave me a blow job, but didn't > swallow, so it's not sex." :) It's true. Bill came on Monica's (black cocktail) dress. "There was a girl named Monica Who liked to play the harmonica." --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Robert Hettinga Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 08:15:10 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: ULotD? Cuban Tattoos. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain A bit o'apocrypha for a Monday evening... Cheers, Bob --- begin forwarded text Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 11:27:25 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: qnx.com: localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: 0xdeadbeef@substance.abuse.blackdown.org Cc: bostic@bsdi.com Subject: ULotD? Cuban Tattoos. Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 10:14:12 -0500 From: glen mccready Resent-From: 0xdeadbeef@substance.abuse.blackdown.org X-Mailing-List: <0xdeadbeef@substance.abuse.blackdown.org> archive/latest/2668 X-Loop: 0xdeadbeef@substance.abuse.blackdown.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: 0xdeadbeef-request@substance.abuse.blackdown.org Forwarded-by: Arunas Norvaisa There was a guy in Florida, Cuban by nationality, who had been unable to get US citizenship and was due to be deported. A couple of MIT students, who had heard about this guy and were after a lark, hopped a plane down to Florida and took this guy to a tatoo studio. What they tatooed on to him was the DES algorithm, in some computer readable form. Thus rendering the guy unexportable. The US government offered to scrape the tatoos off, but they guy's lawyers screamed something about human rights abuses. The way I heard it, the guy was eventually granted citizenship. --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/ Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Ryan Anderson Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 06:22:54 +0800 To: Rabid Wombat Subject: Re: State of the Union Address In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Rabid Wombat wrote: > > > [1] Grab a totally random sample of 100 high school students. Haul the > > > students out one at a time and ask them the following questions: > > [snip] > > > 11) Michelle mixes one gram of HCl and one half gram of NaOH. Under normal > > > circumstances, what is produced and in what quantities? > > > > > > > The correct answer is an explosion and a big mess. One student in my high > > school chemistry class learned this the hard way. :) > > > Um, salt water explodes? >From my high-school chemistry, neutralization makes slatwater and a lot of heat.... (Or that's what the teacher claimed)... Without a way to dump the pressure generated this way, yes you could have an explosion... Ryan Anderson - Alpha Geek PGP fp: 7E 8E C6 54 96 AC D9 57 E4 F8 AE 9C 10 7E 78 C9 print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 08:15:11 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: ULotD? Cuban Tattoos. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain --- begin forwarded text Resent-Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 14:54:29 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: qnx.com: localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: 0xdeadbeef@substance.abuse.blackdown.org Cc: bostic@bsdi.com Subject: Re: ULotD? Cuban Tattoos. Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 13:41:24 -0500 From: glen mccready Resent-From: 0xdeadbeef@substance.abuse.blackdown.org X-Mailing-List: <0xdeadbeef@substance.abuse.blackdown.org> archive/latest/2674 X-Loop: 0xdeadbeef@substance.abuse.blackdown.org Precedence: list Resent-Sender: 0xdeadbeef-request@substance.abuse.blackdown.org From: "Perry E. Metzger" The story posted is an urban legend. It is NOT an urban legend that someone has been tattooed with "RSA in Perl". A picture of Richard White's tattoo is at: http:/www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/tattoo.html It is also not entirely an urban legend that this has been joked about -- a friend of mine (a Greek computer security expert who's name I won't mention) was forced to spend a couple of years back in Greece after completing his PhD because of restrictions on his original visa, and his friends joked heavily about giving him a crypto tatoo to render him non-exportable. However, it was only a joke (albeit one that was told regularly in computer security circles because the person in question is fairly well known among security weenies.) However, the stated story is completely bogus. Perry --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/ Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Trei, Peter" Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 06:21:46 +0800 To: "'cypherpunks@ssz.com> Subject: Ultra computer. Message-ID: <6B5344C210C7D011835C0000F80127668B15FF@exna01.securitydynamics.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I also find the merriment at Nobuki Nakatuji poor English skills offensive - I wish I spoke Japanese as well as he can write English. That's not to say I think we should all go off and work on MISTY right away. However, on his 'NEC supercomputer', there's a somewhat low-content press release at http://www.nec.co.jp/english/today/newsrel/9801/2101.html They've been asked to design as 32 TFlop machine, with an aim of building it by 2002. It's a highly parallelized vector machine, ostensibly aimed at weather forcasting. It'll have 4 TB of RAM, and 'thousands' of processors. I wish I knew just what processor it's supposed to use, but it's probably only on paper at the moment. Here's a really rough calculation Assume integer instructions are no slower than the FP instructions. Best DES code for Alpha gets 94 clock cycles/key - guess 200 instructions/key. 2^56 *200 = 1.4e19 instructions = 450360 seconds = 125 hours to exhaust key space, or about 2.5/days on average. even if I'm off by a factor of two, this is pretty quick for a general purpose machine. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 08:37:38 +0800 To: freedom-knights@jetcafe.org (Freedom Knights) Subject: Kooks and their Kookies Message-ID: <199801280030.SAA20118@manifold.algebra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text I have just looked into my cookies file, and noticed an interesting kookie (pun intended): www.netscum.net FALSE / FALSE 123456789 visited the%20Home%20Page%2c%20Name%20Q.%20Deleted (Name Deleted is the name of one of the well known USENET personaes, and there is a number instead of 123456789). This is really interesting. If netscum.net ever comes up again, do not view it except through the anonymizer or the crowds, and filter out the kooks' kookies. - Igor. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Vipul Ved Prakash Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 21:50:33 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net (Cypherpunks) Subject: Paper withdraws story of Clinton sex 'witness' [fwd - infobeat] Message-ID: <199801271842.SAA08537@fountainhead.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text *** Paper withdraws story of Clinton sex 'witness' The Dallas Morning News withdrew its Internet report Tuesday that a Secret Service agent was ready to testify seeing President Clinton and Monica Lewinsky in a compromising situation. The Dallas paper took the report off its online edition and posted a statement saying its source for the story had told them his information was wrong. The paper had carried a front page report on its electronic Web site saying the agent had spoken with independent counsel Kenneth Starr's staff and was ready to testify as a government witness in the sex scandal engulfing the White House. But within 4 hours the paper had pulled the report and replaced it with a statement which said "the source for the story, a longtime Washington lawyer familiar with the case, later said the information provided for that report was inaccurate. See http://www.infobeat.com/stories/cgi/story.cgi?id=7164923-842 Maryland officials say Tripp may have broken law, See http://www.infobeat.com/stories/cgi/story.cgi?id=7159919-bc9 -- #!/usr/bin/perl eval unpack u,'J)",](DIU Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 10:58:34 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: State of the Onion Router Address In-Reply-To: <199801280225.DAA21669@basement.replay.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 6:25 PM -0800 1/27/98, Anonymous wrote: >>Does anyone happen to know how to figure the energy requirements or yields >>for a reaction? > >Just to make sure I'm not misinterpreted, I mean how much energy is required >or is liberated by a given reaction. I don't mean "...figure the energy, >requirements, or yields," or "figure the energy requirements or products it >yields." Jeez, this is not "ChemPunks." Calculating exothermic and endothermic yields (measured in "kcal/mole") for various chemistry reactions was a central part of my sophomore chemistry class in high school 30 years ago. I suggest the question askers consult any of the most basic chemistry textbooks. --Tim May ObUnion: "Union" derives from the same Indo-European root word that gave us union and unity and yoke in English, yugo in Slavic languages (hence Yugoslavia), and yoga in Sanskrit. The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 10:59:57 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: ULotD? Cuban Tattoos. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 2:08 PM -0800 1/27/98, Robert Hettinga wrote: >A bit o'apocrypha for a Monday evening... >Forwarded-by: Arunas Norvaisa > >There was a guy in Florida, Cuban by nationality, who had been unable to >get US citizenship and was due to be deported. A couple of MIT students, >who had heard about this guy and were after a lark, hopped a plane down to >Florida and took this guy to a tatoo studio. What they tatooed on to him >was the DES algorithm, in some computer readable form. Thus rendering the >guy unexportable. The US government offered to scrape the tatoos off, but >they guy's lawyers screamed something about human rights abuses. The way I >heard it, the guy was eventually granted citizenship. Utter bullshit. Extraordinary jokes require extraordinary proof. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: John Young Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 08:06:01 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: RE: Announcement: RPK InvisiMail released on 12 Jan, 1998 Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980128000207.00b86e10@pop.pipeline.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On "using honey not vinegar" rationale of RPK InvisiMail for obtaining crypto export licenses: Applied Cryptography, Bruce Schneier, 2nd Edition, pp. 215-16 Algorithms for Export Algorithms for export out of the United States must be approved by the U.S. government (actually, by the NSA--see Section 25.1) It is widely believed that these export-approved algorithms can be broken by the NSA. Although no one has admitted this on the record, these are some of the things the NSA is rumored to privately suggest to companies wishing to export their cryptographic products: - Leak a key bit once in a while, embedded in the ciphertext. - "Dumb down" the effective key to something in the 30-bit range. For example, while the algorithm might accept a 100-bit key, most of those keys might be equivalent. - Use a fixed IV, or encrypt a fixed header at the beginning of each encrypted message. This facilitates a known-plaintext attack. - Generate a few random bytes, encrypt them with the key, and then put both the plaintext and the ciphertext of those random bytes at the beginning of the encrypted message. This also facilitates a known-plaintext attack. NSA gets a copy of the source code, but the algorithm's details remain secret from everyone else. Certainly no one advertises any of these deliberate weaknesses, but beware if you buy a U.S. encryption product that has been approved for export. ----- Bruce added the last "beware" phrase to the 2nd edition. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 11:16:14 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Re: future proofing algorihtms In-Reply-To: <199801221532.JAA28790@email.plnet.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 5:18 PM -0800 1/25/98, Adam Back wrote: >Repeat to get back to originator. If we assume 100 message pool size >(probably generous) and chain of length 10, that is 1000 decryptions >which adds equivalent to 10 bits worth of symmetric key size. > >Paranoid stuff yes, but the NSA mixmaster traffic archive doesn't seem >that unlikely. > >It is interesting to note that Tim May's recent suggestion of LAM >(Local Area Mixes) would help here because if 5 of those mixmaster >nodes where part of a LAM, it is unlikely that the NSA would be able >to archive inter remailer traffic, thus increasing effective pool size >to 100^5. So one advantage of the LAM approach is that it provides >links which are protected by physical security. This is a big part of the LAM motivation: to grossly complicate the task of observers watching the traffic. If SWAN or PipeNet is adopted, this obviates this point, but neither seems likely anytime soon. A LAM approach is low tech, and can be implemented easily enough. (And PipeNet becomes much more feasible...) Even an adventurous company, with many machines on various networks, could deploy a LAM on their network. (Though the laws about corporate culpability are written in ways that a Silicon Graphics or Sun or C2Net would have much to fear in having their corporate network associated with a LAM of any sort. Hence my point about many and varied residential users in a physical building being the LAM nodes.) Another point about LAMs is that they are useful as "concentrators" for PipeNet connections. To wit, Suppose someone has deployed a PipeNet connection to another node. Fine, but the NSA and Mossad and GCHQ and other enemies of freedom may watch the traffic flowing into the node feeding that PipeNet connection. So why not do a better job of "loading" this PipeNet connection by having a LAM at the site? Then, watchers see the stuff flowing into the LAM, and have less idea (correlation-wise) of what's then making use of the PipeNet connection. (There are arguments that PipeNet would be immune to this type of correlation, in that a single node feeding a PipeNet connection is as good as N nodes. The devil's in the details. I argue that a LAM feeding a PipeNet connection is at least as secure against monitoring as a single node feeding a PipeNet, and possibly more secure, practically speaking.) --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Declan McCullagh Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 08:44:01 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: FC: Getting caught on the Net, by Rebecca Eisenberg Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >X-POP3-Rcpt: declan@relay.pathfinder.com >Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 16:10:15 -0800 (PST) >From: Declan McCullagh >To: politech@vorlon.mit.edu >Subject: FC: Getting caught on the Net, by Rebecca Eisenberg >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Sender: owner-politech@vorlon.mit.edu >Reply-To: declan@well.com >X-Loop: politech@vorlon.mit.edu >X-URL: Politech is at http://www.well.com/~declan/politech/ > >********** > >http://www.examiner.com/skink/skinkJan25.html > >San Francisco Examiner -- Net Skink > >Jan 25, 1998 >Getting caught on the Net > >A wave of shock has washed over the Net population in the >past two weeks. What you write on the Internet, people >realized, can actually get you fired. > >First came the news that Timothy McVeigh, not the bomber >but a 17-year Navy veteran and crew chief on a nuclear >submarine, was recommended for honorable discharge by the >Navy for describing himself as gay on his AOL profile. > >[...] > >For better or for worse, there is not much privacy on-line. >That is the benefit of free expression -- the free >expression we won when the Supreme Court overturned the >overly broad and unconstitutional Communications Decency >Act. However, freedom of expression does not come with a >guarantee that everyone will like what you say. > >"Privacy is not a right, but a preference," writes Declan >McCullagh, 26, Internet expert and journalist in >Washington, D.C. "Some people want it more than others." >Although we are protected from intrusions by the >government, the free exchange of information between >private parties drives the marketplace and the media. > >"The best solution to harmful disclosures is to avoid them >in the first place. Patronize banks, hardware stores and >Internet providers with strong privacy policies," McCullagh >says. "Privacy advocates who call for new government powers >are missing the point. The government intrudes more on our >privacy than corporations ever can. > >"On a more practical note," he continues, "technological >solutions are the only ones that have half a chance of >working globally. Maybe after years of lobbying, you get a >privacy law passed in the U.S., but the Web site you want >to shut down moves to Anguilla 30 minutes later." > >[...] > > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- >POLITECH -- the moderated mailing list of politics and technology >To subscribe: send a message to majordomo@vorlon.mit.edu with this text: >subscribe politech >More information is at http://www.well.com/~declan/politech/ >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- > From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 02:49:39 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com Subject: Re: Video & cryptography... Message-ID: <199801271841.TAA15985@basement.replay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Remember what your target is here. (Focus, Pinky!) The ultimate goal is that you're trying to convict a suspect of some wrongdoing in a courtroom, and you would like to use as evidence a piece of video footage. But now, in addition to the old standard of "chain of possession" whereby a police officer logs when s/he receives the evidence, who has accessed it in the lab, storage, etc., you may now be required to establish the "truth" of the video -- was it forged, staged, or altered? Can the defense convince a jury that a video is not what it appears to be? Look at the O.J. case where they convinced people that a piece of DNA might not have been his. What a load of malarkey they heaped upon those people, and shame on the prosecution for not going back and matching up another 50 markers, dropping the chances of an error from 1 in 3*10^12 to 1 in 3*10^60. (Ultimately, it wouldn't have mattered of course because they pointed out other "flaws" in the chain of possession, specifically the FBI crime lab. Why they might have had a *different* case with O.J.'s blood is beyond me... They could have retested the DNA from every cell in evidence on that trial, found only Nicole's, Goldman's and Simpson's DNA, and STILL they would have gotten it thrown out, because jurors are incapable of understanding math.) What this means to us is that, in a courtroom, a signed piece of digital tape will probably be accepted the same as an unsigned piece of analog tape. The courts have already established precedent that says that the scientific method has less value than an overpriced lawyer. Think about it: what we strive for as a cryptographic proof means less than the unsworn audio tape from a 21 year old intern. If some lawyer wants to challenge a piece of video, and can throw enough money at it, s/he's going to win. You're better off spending money training the persons operating the VCR, because that's the defense's next point of attack. The idea behind the digitally signed video frames is that the video "consumer" (the persons who shot and recorded the video) probably didn't edit the video to falsify some evidence, and that the person who built the camera is willing to go to court to testify that their video is not tampered with. As a video "consumer", you're willing to pay for a witness from the video equipment supplier to come testify that you didn't edit their video. It theoretically (in a certain, very limited subset of theory) eliminates the "Rising Sun" plotline where someone edited the digital video. Now, we all know that since you can falsify the video by all kinds of other means, the only thing it really accomplishes is it adds a float to the parade going past the jury. And whoever has the prettiest parade wins "justice", right? At 05:02 PM 1/26/98 -0500, Adam Shostack wrote: >Jim Choate wrote: >| > From: Adam Shostack >| > Subject: Re: Video & cryptography... >| > Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 13:56:57 -0500 (EST) >| >| > Schneier, Wagner and Kelsey have done some work on an authenticating >| > camera. > >Dave points out that this was Schneier, Hall and Kelsey. > >| > One issue to be concerned with is that what the camera sees is not >| > always the truth. Putting a film set together to film bigfoot is >| > easy. The fact that the film is authenticated as having come from the >| > camera doesn't mean a whole lot in some cases. >| >| Doesn't this same sort of issue arise from any other digital signature >| process then? There should be nothing fundamentaly different between the >| characteristics of a video camera signing a frame than a person signing >| email. > > It arises in a different context; with a signature on paper, >you're generally indicating that you've read and consented to whats on >the paper, not that you created it. The meaning of a camera signing a >video still is not obvious to me. Is it intended to be 'this is what >we saw through the lens?' or 'this is what really happened?' > >Adam From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Steve Schear Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 11:59:14 +0800 To: Jim Choate Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >ANOTHER VERSION OF QUANTUM TELEPORTATION is >being published by researchers in Italy and England (Francesco >DeMartini, University of Rome, demartini@axcasp.caspur.it). Like >the Innsbruck teleportation scheme published several weeks earlier >(Update 351), this demonstration employs a pair of entangled >photons. Whereas the Innsbruck experiment teleported the >polarization value of a third, distinct "message photon" to one of >the entangled photons, the Rome scheme encodes one of the >entangled photons with a specific polarization state and transmits >this state to the other entangled photon. Although different from the >Innsbruck experiment (which had a 25% teleportation success rate) >and the original theoretical proposal for teleportation, this scheme >works 100% of the time if the receiver applies the right >transformations on the second photon. I wonder how far off use of this technique for interplanetary rovers might be (10 years, 20 years)? Remote (Earth) rover manipulation is tedious at best due to several minutes (or an hour or more to the outer planets) of propagation delay. Autonomous rovers need enough smarts built-in to handle unexpected situations, a non-trivial problem. An alternative is to establish a link using entangled photons. If a simple approach to saving these entangled states during signal transit, in both directions, were found instantaneous communication and simplified remote control would be a reality. Of course one needn't stop there. If entangled states could be stored for several years, instantaneous communication with neighbooring stars is a real possibility. Coupled with advances in mind-machine science it might someday be possible to explore, first-hand, our local portion of the galaxy without leaving earth, or upload/download one's consciouness to vessels in remote locations. Speaking of which, do the current SETI programs check for signal modulation using polarization. If we've discovered this trick, sure so have other intelligent life forms. Most natural sources of radiation tend to unpolarized, so a rapidly flucuating polar modularion might easily appear to be noise. --Steve From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Adam Back Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 08:16:08 +0800 To: nobody@REPLAY.COM Subject: Re: Netscape 5 will be GPL'ed In-Reply-To: <199801271453.PAA17516@basement.replay.com> Message-ID: <199801272012.UAA00372@server.eternity.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Anonymous writes: > At 07:26 PM 1/26/98 -0800, Tom Weinstein wrote: > >Don't hold your breath. We're still bound by US export regulations, so > >we won't be able to export crypto-relevant source code. We'll release what > >we can, but you probably won't be satisfied. > > > >Of course, there's always the option for some enterprising individuals > >outside the US to replace the missing pieces. > > Or you can print those sections in a book and let some enterprising > foreigners OCR scan them. Could this process not be simplified by Netscape (hint Tom) having a non-exportable version of the source including all crypto code. Then an interested third party may print it on paper and snail it out of the US, or simply make use of a remailer; either way once it is outside the US we have legal full strength netscape. Another area which could use some attention is that the netscape distribution license seems to result in large european ftp sites carrying only the 40 bit version. Anything that would free up the license might encourage more sites to carry the 128 bit versions. (Such as carried by replay.com and others). Adam -- Now officially an EAR violation... Have *you* exported RSA today? --> http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/ print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 12:25:31 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: Executing Kaczynski Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980127201813.008249e0@cnw.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Vladimir Ze Cornflake inquired of TCM: >> Recall that a leading Cypherpunk was suspected >>for a while as being the Unabomber. > >whoa, are you being facetious here or what? would you care to elaborate >on that little tidbit? ................................................. It was TCM himself. (myself, I speculated it was Detweiler.) .. Blanc From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: tgustavo.sanjuan@interredes.com.ar (Transportes Gustavo S.R.L.) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 07:33:11 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Easy Money Message-ID: <19980127231625703.ABC236@lizard> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain This is it! THE MOST PHENOMENAL WEALTH-BUILDING BONANZA IN HISTORY. A once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for you to upgrade the quality of your life forever. Your chance to automatically capitalize on the historic outpouring of humanity on to the Internet. (It will only happen once ... and it's happening RIGHT NOW!) Take just four minutes to discover the secret that WILL IMMEDIATELY CHANGE YOUR LIFE. (Do you *really* have something else to do more important than THAT?) You are about to embark upon a wonderful journey to amass a small fortune in a short time. (Even a LARGE fortune, if you choose to devote some effort.) It's easy and fail proof. All you have to do is take the first step. You've paid your dues; you deserve it. Now it's your turn. WITHIN 90 DAYS, YOU'LL HAVE MORE THAN $50,000 ... and that's just the beginning! HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE? Simple: To begin with, realize that there were only about two-million Internet "host sites" in 1994 -- yet that number had soared to around 20 million by the end of 1997. In other words, the rate of Internet growth is geometric -- like 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, etc. And, for the moment, even THAT rate is accelerating. Now, the most famous example of a host site is aol.com, America Online(tm). It, by itself, has over ten-million people as members. (Not all host sites have members, though.) HERE'S THE IMPORTANT PART: Following the present trend, the number of host sites will skyrocket to nearly ONE HUNDRED MILLION during 1998. And that's just the host sites! Now, imagine how many individual PEOPLE are rushing on line for the first time ... right now ... this very instant. This creates tremendous opportunity for you. But there's no time to waste! (How long can THAT growth rate continue? Oh, sure, it will keep growing -- just not at the historic 1998 rate.) IF YOU'RE WAITING FOR YOUR SHIP TO COME IN, THIS IS IT. (Don't let it sail away without you.) So here it is, the easiest money-generating system you'll ever hear about. One that's showing extraordinary appeal to an ever-expanding mass of people who feel the need for additional income. And YOU can help them fulfill that need. HERE'S YOUR CHANCE TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE. HOW? In short, by developing a mailing list of people who need extra money. (I know: it doesn't seem very exciting yet, but keep reading.) And people will pay you to be on your list. A LOT of people. (See: it's already starting to sound better.) Let's go through it step by step so you'll know exactly what to do ... and why (Step #4!) so many people feel hope again. If you've seen a lot of posts like this, you already have PROOF that THIS SYSTEM WORKS. ____________________STEP 1._________________ You will need these instructions later; so save them on your hard drive. (FILE then SAVE. If you have a choice, choose a "text" or "ASCII" file type.) Now print these instructions so you can read them more easily. (Go ahead, I'll wait for you ...) ____________________STEP 2._________________ This is the step where you invest money. Less than $10. (Try not to cry.) About the same as the price of a movie ticket, or a 12-pack of beer, or a few lottery tickets. In this "lottery," however, YOU control the results. YOU CANNOT AFFORD *NOT* TO DO THIS. On a sheet of paper, write "Processing fee to add me to your mailing list". (You, too, are one of those people wanting extra income, aren't you? Besides, the inherent value of being on that mailing list is what makes this a legal program. [The relevant American laws are in the United States Code, Title 18, §1302, §1341, and §1342.]) Fold the sheet around a US $1 bill. Mail this to the List Manager in Position A, located at the end of these instructions. Double- check the postage for any mail going outside your country. Repeat that for the other List Managers. ___________________STEP 3.__________________ Use Notepad (preferably) or some other word processor to open the file you saved in Step 1. Scroll to the List Managers section. Delete the name and address under Position F. Move the name and address from Position E down to Position F. Then, in order, move each of the others down one until Position A is left vacant. That's where your name and address go! Double check your address: whatever is there is where all your money will go. Save the file. (If you don't have Notepad, be sure to save it as an "ASCII" or "text" file.) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ NOW, HERE'S THE MAGIC PART . . . ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ____________________STEP 4._________________ THIS STEP MAKES ALL THE DIFFERENCE IN THE WORLD. It's also where you invest a little time. As much as four hours, if you use America Online. (Try not to cry.) If it'll be easier on you, take an hour per day. Skip those X Files episodes you've already seen twice. In THIS show, YOU control the ending. All those people coming on line for the first time. Nearly TWO-THOUSAND NEW PEOPLE PER DAY ... and growing! Where do they go? Sooner or later --but usually immediately-- they go to the newsgroups. Isn't that where YOU discovered this opportunity? Over 40,000 newsgroups, now, and that's growing, too. (There's a list of 49,000 at ftp://ftp.alt.net/pub/news/active.) So, simply take the file you saved in Step 3 and post it to some newsgroups. Three hundred, to be precise. (How? See below.) How many people will be exposed to your offer during the two weeks your post will remain in the newsgroup? Depending on how you choose the newsgroups, anywhere from 10,000 to OVER A MILLION PEOPLE WILL SEE YOUR OFFER. ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ The implications of that are down right staggering. Even more so than it might seem! (See the Example section, below -- especially the first and last paragraphs.) ___________________STEP 5.__________________ Now begins the greatest money-making exprience of your life! In about a week, you start receiving requests and processing fees from opportunity seekers around the world. And they all want to be added to your mailing list. WHY do they want to do this? Well, for the most of the same reasons YOU want to do this! What will you do with all those requests? It's up to you. For example, you can sell them to professional list brokers, found in the Yellow Pages, who will see that offers are sent out. You can take up exotic-stamp collecting. To some of the addresses, you might even send these instructions: Most people want to jump right back in again as soon as their name moves out of Position F; after all, they already KNOW how well this works! And, what will you do with all that money? That, also, is up to you. (You can think of something, can't you?) ____________________________________________ Example ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ This example assumes that you post, one time, to just 300 newsgroups, with an average readership of merely 100 people during the dozen days your message stays on file. It assumes that VIRTUALLY EVERYONE --9,998 out of every 10,000 potential readers-- does NOT even see your opportunity, does NOT read it, or is already involved or, in any case, does NOT take any action. In marketing terms, this assumes a response rate of merely one fiftieth of one percent (0.0002). That's considered almost no response at all! (NOW can you see why this works so well?) You in Position A: Only 6 respond to your efforts. 6 x $1 = $6 You in Position B: Only 6 respond to each of the 6 in A. 36 x $1 = $36 You in Position C: Only 6 respond to each of the 36 in B. 216 x $1 = $216 You in Position D: Only 6 respond to each of the 216 in C. 1,296 x $1 = $1,296 You in Position E: Only 6 respond to each of the 1296 in D. 7,776 x $1 = $7,776 You in Position F: Only 6 respond to each of the 7776 in E. 46,656 x $1 = $46,656 _______ Your income $55,986 If, however, these people each get a mere 8 responses (out of 30,000 people!), your income increases to well over a quarter of a million dollars! PEOPLE ARE TRULY ACCOMPLISHING THIS. RIGHT NOW! *WHY NOT YOU?* How? The details are in your hands this very instant. THAT'S IT. All you have to do is actually begin. You may even wish to try for 20 people. You literally won't believe how much THAT produces. So, do the numbers for yourself. (I'll give you two hints: a. For ten, it's 10 x 10 x 10 x 10 x 10 x 10 = $1,000,000. b. Have you heard of a "sixty-four million dollar question"?) You just might end up wanting to spend a few DAYS posting, and to take it to a few of your friends. But start -- start today -- and start with just 300 newsgroups. THIS IS THE MOMENT YOU'VE BEEN WAITING FOR. __________How To Post To Newsgroups_________ To post, just "cut and paste": Highlight the entire text of these instructions. Choose EDIT then COPY. You only need to do that once. Here's the part you repeat: Go to the newsgroup. Click on Send New Message, Post Article, To News, or whatever applies. Type your headline in the Subject box. (Some subject heading samples are listed below.) Go to the Message box. Paste these instructions by holding down your Ctrl key while you depress the letter V. Click on Send, OK, or whatever is there. STEP-BY-STEP DIRECTIONS FOR AMERICA ONLINE: Go on line. Click on the Internet globe at the bottom of your Welcome page. Edit the Web Address window to read --without the quotes-- "http://members.aol.com/TouchMidas/private/aol-gold.txt". Click on Go To The Web. When you see the directions, print them out by clicking on the printer icon at the top of your screen. (If you receive a "URL Not Found" error, carefully re-type the address. If the it seems to have been discontinued, try this address: "http://home1.gte.net/docthomp/AOL.htm".) ___________Sample Subject Headings__________ .A Once-In-A-Lifetime Opportunity .How You Can Make $25,000 Per Month .How To Re-Invent Your Life .The Greatest Wealth-Building Bonanza In History! .Upgrade The Quality Of Your Life .FA$T, EA$Y MONEY! <-- Why you see so many of these: .Work At Home With Your Computer .Financial Independence .! > FA$T, EA$Y MONEY! < .Income Opportunity .Be a millionaire in 1998 .Make money with your computer .!!$$ Hard Fast Cash $$!! .Immediate Internet Income At Home (complete instructions) .Safe Income Now .$$ Need Cash? $$ .! Earn THOU$AND$ posting to newsgroups! .Income From The Internet .Yes, you can make money working from home .MAKE MONEY FA$T & EA$Y .Home-Based Business Opportunity .Internet Income <-Why you're gonna see more of this You're really here; you made it! Congratulations on your breakthrough to financial independence and an enhanced quality of living. Or... ******************************************** * WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR? ******************************************** Maybe things like this never work for you? (You are surely correct ... unless you're already grabbing an envelope.) You tried something like this before? (Have you *REALLY* ever reached 30,000 people before?) Maybe you'll only get $10,000? (Life is cruel.) Maybe you're already making $2,000 per hour? Maybe nobody else will do this? (Look around the newsgroups: they already ARE doing this. How much proof do you need?) Then, maybe everyone else is already doing this? (Definitely NOT! But you'll END UP being right if you keep putting this off.) "I'll do it later, really!" (Yeah, right.) Maybe the Easter Bunny will change your life, so you won't have to bother? Is the price of a movie ticket truly more important than your future? GO FOR THE GOLD: What have you got to lose? !-------REMEMBER, follow these steps and be honest, and the money will pour in! ________________List Managers_______________ #1 B. Spiegeleer 31 rue de la Montagne de l'Esperou 75015 Paris Francia #2 C. Leyton Bulnes 737 San Bernardo, Santiago Chile #3 A. Curth Azcuenaga 1360 PB2 Buenos Aires, CF 1115 ARGENTINA #4 L Mastrogiacomo Maipú 596 1er piso Merlo (1722) Buenos Aires ARGENTINA #5 P. Oregioni Salta 662 Merlo (1722) Buenos Aires Argentina #6 A. Alvarez Chopin 149 norte Santa Lucia (5411) San Juan Argentina Note: If you don't read spanish send me an e-mail and I will send you a translated copy. Believe me, IT's WORTH IT! acurth@usa.net ----- Las puertas del ańo se abren, ----- como las del lenguaje, ----- hacia lo desconocido. ----- Anoche me dijiste: ----- mańana habrá que trazar unos signos, ----- dibujar un paisaje, tejer una trama ----- sobre la doble página ----- del papel y del día. ----- Mańana habrá que inventar de nuevo, ----- la realidad de este mundo. Octavio Paz ________________________________________________ This is a true story! Esta historia es Real! Días atrás, cuando "navegaba" por estas páginas de Newsgroups, así mismo como Ud. lo esta haciendo ahora, se me apareció un artículo similar a este que decía que uno puede ganar miles de dólares en pocas semanas con una inversión de $6.00!. Enseguida pensé, "Oh no! otra estafa más?", pero como la mayoría de nosotros, la curiosidad pudo más, y seguí leyendo. Y seguía diciendo que Ud. enviará $1.00 a cada uno de los 6 nombres y direcciones mencionados en este artículo. Entonces Ud. anota su nombre y dirección al final de la lista reemplazando al #6, y envíe o ponga este artículo a por lo menos 200 "Newsgroups"(Hay miles de estos en todo el mundo). Ningún truco, eso fue todo. La gran diferencia entre este sistema y otros es que Ud. tiene una lista de 6 en vez de 5... Esto significa que su promedio de ganancia será aproximadamente 15 veces mayor!!! Después de pensarlo una y otra vez, y consultar con unos amigos primero, decidí probarlo. Pensé que lo único que podría perder eran 6 estampillas y $6.00, verdad?. Como probablemente muchos de nosotros, estaba un poco preocupado por la legalidad de todo esto. Entonces consulté en las oficinas del Correo Central y me confirmaron que en realidad era legal!! . Entonces invertí mis $6.00......IMAGÍNENSE QUÉ!!!...a los 7 días, empecé a recibir dinero por correo!!!. Estaba sorprendido! todavía pensaba esto terminará enseguida, y no pensé más en otra cosa. Pero el dinero seguía llegando. En mi primera semana hice unos $20.00 a $30.00 dólares. Para el final de la segunda semana tenia hecho un total de más de $1,000.00!!!!! En la tercera semana recibí más de $10,000.00 y todavía seguía llegando más. Esta es mi cuarta semana ya hice un total de más de $41,000.00 y esto sigue llegando más rápidamente(mi esposa e hijos se pasan abriendo los sobres y yo consiguiendo "Newsgroups"). Esto se puso serio!!!! Todo esto realmente valió la inversión de $6.00 y 6 estampillas. Me gastaba más que esto en sorteos y loterías!! Permítanme explicarles como funciona esto y lo más importante el por qué funciona....también, Ud. asegúrese de imprimir una copia de este artículo AHORA, para poder sacar toda la información a medida que lo necesite. El proceso es muy fácil y consiste en 3 pasos sencillos: PASO No. 1: Obtenga 6 hojas de papel y escriba en cada una de ellas: "FAVOR DE INCLUIRME EN SU LISTA DE CORRESPONDENCIA O E-MAIL". Ahora consiga 6 billetes de US$1.00 dólar e introduzca cada dólar en un sobre con la hoja de manera que el billete no se vea a través del sobre!! Mejor ponerlo encerrado en un papel de color oscuro para prevenir robos de correspondencia. **OPCIONAL: Mande una tarjeta postal de su ciudad o país. Ahora Ud. debería tener 6 sobres sellados y en ellos un papel con la frase mencionada, su nombre y dirección, y un billete de $1.00 dólar. Lo que Ud. esta haciendo con esto es crear un "servicio" y eso hace que esto sea ABSOLUTAMENTE LEGAL!! Enviar los 6 sobres a las siguientes direcciones: #1 B. Spiegeleer 31 rue de la Montagne de l'Esperou 75015 Paris Francia #2 C. Leyton Bulnes 737 San Bernardo, Santiago Chile #3 A. Curth Azcuenaga 1360 PB2 Buenos Aires, CF 1115 ARGENTINA #4 L Mastrogiacomo Maipú 596 1er piso Merlo (1722) Buenos Aires ARGENTINA #5 P. Oregioni Salta 662 Merlo (1722) Buenos Aires Argentina #6 A. Alvarez Chopin 149 norte Santa Lucia (5411) San Juan Argentina PASO NO. 2: Ahora elimine el #1 de la lista de arriba y mueva los otros nombres un número para arriba (el #6 se convierte en #5, el #5 se convierte en #4, Etc.) y agregue SU NOMBRE y dirección como el #6 en la lista. PASO No. 3: Cambie todo lo que crea conveniente de este artículo, pero trate de mantenerlo lo más posible cercano al original. Ahora ponga su artículo en por lo menos 200 "Newsgroups"(existen más de 24,000 grupos). Solo necesita 200, pero cuando más cantidad lo ponga, más dinero le llegará!!!. Aquí van algunas indicaciones de como introducirse en los "Newsgroups": -------------------------------------------------------------- COMO MANEJAR LOS "NEWSGROUPS" -------------------------------------------------------------- No.1> Ud. no necesita redactar de nuevo toda esta carta para hacer la suya propia. Solamente ponga su cursor al comienzo de esta carta, haga click y lo deja presionando y bájelo hasta el final de la carta y lárguelo. Toda la carta deberá estar "sombreada". Entonces, apunte y haga click en "edit" arriba de su pantalla, aquí seleccione "copy. Esto hará que toda la carta quede en la memoria de su computadora. No.2> Abra un archivo "notepad" y lleve al cursor arriba de la página en blanco. Presione "edit" y del menu seleccione "paste". Ahora tendrá esta carta en el "notepad" y podrá agregar su nombre y dirección en el lugar #6 siguiendo las instrucciones de más arriba. No.3> Grave esta carta en su nuevo archivo del notepad como un .txt file. Y cada vez que quiera cambiar algo ya lo puede hacer. ---------------------------------------------------------------- PARA LOS QUE MANEJAN COMMUNICATOR ---------------------------------------------------------------- Seleccione "message center". 1- Haga doble click sobre "News". 2- Aparecerá la ventana "Subscribe to Discussion Groups". 3-Seleccione los grupos a suscribirse. 4-Presione "suscribe". 5- Presione "OK". 6-Ahora seleccione desde "news" un servidor y mande este documento. ---------------------------------------------------------------- PARA LOS QUE MANEJAN NETSCAPE ---------------------------------------------------------------- No.4> Dentro del programa Netscape, vaya a la "ventana" titulada :Window" y seleccione "netscapeNews". Entonces elija del menu "Options", seleccione "Show all Newsgroups". En segundos una lista de todos los "Newsgroups" de su "server" aparecerá. Haga click en cualquier newsgroup. De este newsgroup haga click debajo de "TO NEWS", el cual deberia estar arriba, en el extremo izquierdo de la página de Newsgroups. Esto le llevará a la caja de mensajes. No.5> Llene este espacio. Este será el título que verán todos cuando recorran por la lista de un grupo en particular. No.6> Marque el contenido completo del .txt file y copie usando la misma técnica anterior. Regrese al Newsgroup "TO NEWS" y Ud. esta creando y empastando esta carta dentro de su programa o "posting". No.7> Presione "send" que está en la parte superior izquierda. Y UD. HA FINALIZADO CON SU PRIMERO!...CONGRATULACIONES!!! . ---------------------------------------------------------------- LOS QUE USAN INTERNET EXPLORER ---------------------------------------------------------------- PASO No. 4: Vaya al Newsgroups y seleccione "Post an Article. PASO No. 5: Carge el artículo. PASO No. 6: Repita el No.6> más arriba. PASO No. 7: Presione el botón "Post". -------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________ ES TODO!. Todo lo que tiene que hacer es meterse en diferentes "Newsgroups" y empastarlos, cuando ya tenga práctica, solo le tomará unos 30 segundos por cada newsgroup! **RECUERDE, CUANTOS MÁS NEWSGROUPS CONSIGA, MÁS RESPUESTAS (Y DINERO) RECIBIRÁ!! PERO DEBE DE ENTRAR EN POR LO MENOS 200** YA ESTA!!!.... Ud. estará recibiendo dinero de todo el mundo, de lugares que ni conoce y en unos pocos días!. Eventualmente querrá rentar un P.O.Box por la cantidad de sobres que irá recibiendo. **ASEGÚRESE DE QUE TODAS LAS DIRECCIONES ESTEN CORRECTAS Ahora el POR QUÉ de todo esto: #6 - De 200 enviados, digamos que recibo solo 5 respuestas (bajísimo ejemplo). Entonces hice $5.00 con mi nombre en la posición #6 de esta carta. #5 - Ahora, cada uno de las 5 personas que ya me enviaron los $1.00 también hacen un mínimo 200 Newsgroups, cada uno con mi nombre en el #5 de la lista y solo responden 5 personas a cada uno de los 5 originales, esto hace $25.00 más que yo recibo #4 - Ahora estas 25 personas pone un mínimo de 200 Newsgroups con mi nombre en el #4 y solo se recibe 5 respuestas de cada uno. Estaría haciendo otros $125.00 adicionales. #3 - Ahora esta 125 personas ponen sus mínimo de 200 grupos con mi nombre en el #3 y solo recibe 5 respuestas cada una, yo recibo un adicional de $625.00!. #2 - OK, aquí esta la parte más divertida, cada una de estas 625 personas ponen sus cartas en otros 200 grupos con mi nombre en el #2 y cada una recibe solo 5 respuestas, esto hace que yo reciba $3,125.00!!!. #1 - Estas 3,125 personas enviarán este mensaje a un mínimo de 200 Newsgroups con mi nombre en el #1 y si solo 5 personas responden de los 200 grupos, estaré recibiendo $15,625.00!!. De una inversión original de $6.00!! más estampillas. FABULOSO! Y como dije antes, que solo 5 personas respondan muy poca, el promedio real seria 20 o 30 personas!. Asique pongamos estos números a calcular. Si solo 15 personas responden, esto hace: en la #6 $15.00 en la #5 $225.00 en la #4 $3,375.00 en la #3 $50,625.00 en la #2 $759,375.00 en la #1 $11,390,625.00 Una vez que su nombre ya no esta en la lista, saque el ultimo anuncio del Newsgroup y envíe otros $6.00 a los nombres en esa lista, poniendo su nombre en el #6 y repetir todo el proceso. Y empezar a ponerlos en los Newsgroups otra vez. Lo que debe recordar es que miles de personas más, en todo el mundo, se conectan al Internet cada día y leerán estos artículos todos los días como USTED Y YO LO HACEMOS!!!. Así que creo nadie tendría problemas en invertir $6.00 y ver si realmente esto funciona. Algunas personas llegan a pensar..."y si nadie decide contestarme?" Que!! Cuál es la chance de que esto pasé cuando hay miles y miles de personas honestas (que como nosotros) buscan una manera de tener independencia financiera y pagar cuentas!!!., y estan dispuestas a tratar, pues "No hay peor lucha de la que no se hace". Se estima que existen de 20,000 a 50.000 nuevos usuarios TODOS LOS DIAS! (en todo el mundo) ******************************************* OTRO SISTEMA PARA COMUNICARSE ES CONSIGUIENDO E-MAIL DE PERSONAS PARTICULARES, DEBE SER POR LO MENOS 200 DIRECCIONES, Y ESTO TIENE UNA EFECTIVIDAD DE MINIMO 5% AL 15%. SI SOLO BUSCAN PERSONAS QUE HABLAN ESPAŃOL, VAYAN A UN PROVEEDOR DE E-MAILS E IMPRIMAN UN APELLIDO LATINO Y YA. Recuerde de hacerlo esto en forma CORRECTA, LIMPIA Y HONESTAMENTE y funcionará con toda seguridad. Solamente tiene que ser honesto. Asegúrese de imprimir este artículo AHORA, Trate de mantener la lista de todos los que les envían dinero y siempre fíjese en los Newsgroups y vea si todos están participando limpiamente. Recuerde, HONESTIDAD ES EL MEJOR MÉTODO. No se necesita hacer trucos con la idea básica de hacer dinero en esto! BENDICIONES PARA TODOS, y suerte, juguemos limpio y aprovechar esta hermosa oportunidad de hacer toneladas de dinero con el Internet. **Dicho sea de paso, si Ud. defrauda a las personas poniendo mensajescon su nombre y no envía ningún dinero a los demás en esa lista, Ud. recibirá casi NADA!. He conversado con personas que conocieron personas que hicieron eso y solo llegaron a colectar unos $150.00, y eso después de unas 7 semanas!. Algunos decidieron probar otra vez, haciendo correctamente, y en 4 a 5 semanas recibieron más de $10.000. Esto es la más limpia y honesta manera de compartir fortuna que yo jamás haya visto, sin costarnos mucho excepto un poco de tiempo. El TIEMPO ES IMPORTANTE!, no dejar pasar más de 7 días del momento que vea este artículo!. También puede conseguir lista de E-MAIL para obtener dinero extra. Sigamos todos las reglas del negocio! Recuerde mencionar estas ganancias extras en sus declaraciones de impuestos. Gracias otra vez y BENDICIONES A TODOS!! From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 12:38:18 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: Planetary rovers, SETI and other musings, was Re: update.356(fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801272132.PAA01922@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 7:56 PM -0800 1/27/98, Steve Schear wrote: >I wonder how far off use of this technique for interplanetary rovers might >be (10 years, 20 years)? Remote (Earth) rover manipulation is tedious at >best due to several minutes (or an hour or more to the outer planets) of >propagation delay. Autonomous rovers need enough smarts built-in to handle >unexpected situations, a non-trivial problem. An alternative is to >establish a link using entangled photons. If a simple approach to saving >these entangled states during signal transit, in both directions, were >found instantaneous communication and simplified remote control would be a >reality. Nothing in quantum teleportation has been shown to propagate signals faster than light. (If you don't believe me, look into it. Start by reading the FTL discussions about Bell's Theorem.) I personally doubt that any flat spacetime topology (e.g., wormholes excepted) will admit any FTL signals. A lot of things would dramatically change if FTL communication existed...not the practical "communication" issues, which are human social minutiae, but issues about synchronization of reference frames and causality violations. > >Of course one needn't stop there. If entangled states could be stored for >several years, instantaneous communication with neighbooring stars is a >real possibility. Coupled with advances in mind-machine science it might >someday be possible to explore, first-hand, our local portion of the galaxy >without leaving earth, or upload/download one's consciouness to vessels in >remote locations. Who's your supplier? --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 12:40:58 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: Kooks and their Kookies In-Reply-To: <199801280030.SAA20118@manifold.algebra.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home) writes: > I have just looked into my cookies file, and noticed an interesting > kookie (pun intended): > > www.netscum.net FALSE / FALSE 123456789 visited the%20Home%20P > > (Name Deleted is the name of one of the well known USENET personaes, > and there is a number instead of 123456789). > > This is really interesting. If netscum.net ever comes up again, do not > view it except through the anonymizer or the crowds, and filter out the > kooks' kookies. You can find *most* of netscum at this URL: http://www.spambusters.dyn.ml.org/www.netscum.net/index.html It does do very interesting things with cookies. it also allows you to customize the typeface, the size, and the color of the text using the cookie. Be sure at least to watch the cookies coming in on this and any other site. Would there be any interest if I put an anootated netscape cookie file (cypherpunks cookie potluck) someplace like geocitie.com? Also a composite blockfile for junkbusters and other filtering proxies. A really neat feature for ad-filtering proxies would be to be able to place a specified picture (or at least a black rectangle) over a jpg or gif file being received from a URL that matches a specified pattern. I'm not sufficiently handy with graphics file formats to tell how easy this would be. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 11:15:25 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Interesting Chemical Reaction Message-ID: <199801280310.VAA21421@manifold.algebra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text An interesting experiment is to mix the ordinary ammonium nitrate (a fertilizer) with room temp. water. Try to put in as much ammonium nitrate as it is possible to dissolve. You will see the temperature of the mixture DROP to below the freezing point (for pure water that is). Wow. I did that 12 years ago and was amazed. A really easy way to get cold water if no freezer is available. - Igor. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 12:29:38 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: Latest Clinton dodge? In-Reply-To: <199801271757.LAA14080@frodo.tucc.uab.edu> Message-ID: <8yVZJe14w165w@bwalk.dm.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain John Blair writes: > >> It figures that Dimitri would know this. He seems to know all > >> about Tim's and Sameer's and John Gilmore's penises too. Must be > >> all that extensive taste-testing... > >> > >> - Frondeur > > > Bobbi Inman is a cocksucker. > > Ahh... I remember now why I re-subscribed to Cypherpunks. It was for > all of the intelligent discussion that goes on here. At least back > in the days of Detweiler the character assassination was creative and > often fun to read. > > Can you please keep childish shots like this in private e-mail? It > has no place in this mailing list. Bobbi Inman takes it up the ass too. --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Steve Schear Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 15:46:03 +0800 To: Jim Choate Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 10:42 PM -0600 1/27/98, Jim Choate wrote: >Forwarded message: > >> Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 20:34:48 -0800 >> From: Tim May >> Subject: Re: Planetary rovers, SETI and other musings, was Re: update.356 >> (fwd) > >> Nothing in quantum teleportation has been shown to propagate signals faster >> than light. (If you don't believe me, look into it. Start by reading the >> FTL discussions about Bell's Theorem.) > >The actual transportation of the state is instantanious as it must be by >quantum theory, just as the change in orbits of an electron occurs instantly. >However, the catch is that the command/synchronization channel must be >sent in parallel and it at some point can't use the quantum transportation >technique and hence the speed-of-light comes back into play. This was >specificaly discussed in the original quantum transportation announcement >sent out by AIP. I don't understand why a command/synch channel is required. Why aren't the coding techniques commonly used in telecom and disk data encoding adequate to both synchonize and convey data? --Steve From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: geeman@best.com Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 13:23:26 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: sat survailience Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980127210104.006c5f24@shell15.ba.best.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 03:06 PM 1/27/98 -0500, Robert Hettinga wrote: > > >--- begin forwarded text > > >Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 14:55:09 -0500 >From: Somebody >Subject: sat survailience >To: rah >MIME-version: 1.0 > >Bob - something else to be paranoid about! > > > >When Is a Satellite Photo An Unreasonable Search? > >By IMPORTANT INFORMATION RESTORED AFTER INEXPLICABLE DELETION: >Staff Reporter of WALL STREET JOURNAL> ... ETC ... From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Alan Olsen Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 13:51:42 +0800 To: Robert Hettinga Subject: Re: ULotD? Cuban Tattoos. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980127214312.03fd8160@clueserver.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 05:14 PM 1/27/98 -0500, Robert Hettinga wrote: >From: "Perry E. Metzger" > > >The story posted is an urban legend. > >It is NOT an urban legend that someone has been tattooed with "RSA in >Perl". A picture of Richard White's tattoo is at: > >http:/www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/tattoo.html It is also true that he had a typo in the tattoo. It seems someone, who will remain unnamed, joked about "what if it has a typo, is it still a violation of ITAR?". Seems they decided to proof read it. "Doh!" --- | "That'll make it hot for them!" - Guy Grand | |"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmermann unites all| Disclaimer: | | mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!" | Ignore the man | |`finger -l alano@teleport.com` for PGP 2.6.2 key | behind the keyboard.| | http://www.ctrl-alt-del.com/~alan/ |alan@ctrl-alt-del.com| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Alan Olsen Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 13:52:34 +0800 To: Tom Weinstein Subject: Re: Netscape 5 will be GPL'ed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980127214433.03fe71b0@clueserver.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 07:26 PM 1/26/98 -0800, Tom Weinstein wrote: >Don't hold your breath. We're still bound by US export regulations, so >we won't be able to export crypto-relevant source code. We'll release what >we can, but you probably won't be satisfied. > >Of course, there's always the option for some enterprising individuals >outside the US to replace the missing pieces. Or you could just publish the source code in a big book... ]:> --- | "That'll make it hot for them!" - Guy Grand | |"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmermann unites all| Disclaimer: | | mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!" | Ignore the man | |`finger -l alano@teleport.com` for PGP 2.6.2 key | behind the keyboard.| | http://www.ctrl-alt-del.com/~alan/ |alan@ctrl-alt-del.com| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 05:12:58 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: Latest Clinton dodge? Message-ID: <199801272107.WAA06053@basement.replay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > > Next thing you know, he'll say "She gave me a blow job, but didn't > swallow, so it's not sex." :) Is that like "if you don't get pregnant," it's not intercourse??? Gotta be a lot of virgins out there then. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Eric Cordian Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 12:18:04 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: Interesting Chemical Reaction In-Reply-To: <199801280310.VAA21421@manifold.algebra.com> Message-ID: <199801280413.WAA08034@wire.insync.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Igor writes: > An interesting experiment is to mix the ordinary ammonium nitrate > (a fertilizer) with room temp. water. Try to put in as much ammonium > nitrate as it is possible to dissolve. > You will see the temperature of the mixture DROP to below the freezing > point (for pure water that is). > Wow. I did that 12 years ago and was amazed. A really easy way to get > cold water if no freezer is available. And for those who may think that endothermic reactions violate some basic law about entropy always increasing, I should point out that the increase in entropy from the uniform mixing of two different materials can more than compensate for the decrease in temperature. Ain't science wonderful? -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law" From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 12:18:49 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Planetary rovers, SETI and other musings, was Re: update.356 (fwd) Message-ID: <199801280418.WAA04044@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Hi Steve, Can I forward your questions to another technology list I support as well as the local high performance rocketry group I'm involved in? I believe they would be intriqued by your questions. Forwarded message: > Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 19:56:33 -0800 > From: Steve Schear > Subject: Planetary rovers, SETI and other musings, was Re: update.356 (fwd) > > >ANOTHER VERSION OF QUANTUM TELEPORTATION is [text deleted] > I wonder how far off use of this technique for interplanetary rovers might > be (10 years, 20 years)? Remote (Earth) rover manipulation is tedious at > best due to several minutes (or an hour or more to the outer planets) of > propagation delay. As I understand the process you don't get around the speed-of-light issue because the control channel still needs to be sent via radio or laser or whatever. This was discussed in the in the original teleportation announcement. However, I don't see anything that would keep you from syncing two atomic clocks and then using them to make the changes in sync, this should allow the imposition of the speed of light only on initiation and occassion syncronization. I'll have to beg ignorance on specifics as I haven't had the time to really dig into specifics. I haven't even read the primary references to date. > Autonomous rovers need enough smarts built-in to handle > unexpected situations, a non-trivial problem. An alternative is to > establish a link using entangled photons. If a simple approach to saving > these entangled states during signal transit, in both directions, were > found instantaneous communication and simplified remote control would be a > reality. Agreed. It would also solve many terrestrial problems as well. > Of course one needn't stop there. If entangled states could be stored for > several years, instantaneous communication with neighbooring stars is a > real possibility. Coupled with advances in mind-machine science it might > someday be possible to explore, first-hand, our local portion of the galaxy > without leaving earth, or upload/download one's consciouness to vessels in > remote locations. True, but it would be boring compared to being there first person. I do support robot exploration as a precursor to manned exploration. > Speaking of which, do the current SETI programs check for signal modulation > using polarization. >From what little I have delved into this, most signals coming in from 'out there' as well as from satellites are circularly polarized. This is the reason that the antennas have those curly-ques on them (look like a cork-screw sorta). The last time I even messed with extra-terrestrial signals was the SL-9 impacts. I worked with several amateur groups using plane (flat rectangular) loop antennas to measure the increase in the background noise in various bands (we used a HP spectrum analyzer at my site) during the impacts. What we saw was a 'jump' across the band of several db's just at the time-of-flight times we expected. The assumption being this was caused by the impacts. We monitored 1MHz to 10MHz. I found it pretty impressive. We got, if memory serves, around 6 of the large impacts. > If we've discovered this trick, sure so have other > intelligent life forms. Most natural sources of radiation tend to > unpolarized, so a rapidly flucuating polar modularion might easily appear > to be noise. I'll have to disagree, all forms of E-M radiation that I am aware of are polarized to some frame of reference. The E-M fields after all are orthogonal. The question is which field you want to pick as a reference and the relationship of source to sensor. Circularly polarized (ie the fields rotate around the axis of transmission at some rate) are about the only sort that would appear essentialy the same irrespective of reference frame. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Anonymous Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 11:19:39 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: State of the Union Address Message-ID: <8463c019601705d91ebc98ca08ee4e29@anon.efga.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >I guess those high school students aren't the only ones with no clear >idea of the way the world works. While salt water does not ordinarily >explode, in this case salt water is the ultimate product -- but massive >heat released when acids and bases join and recombine to produce salts >(in this case table salt) and water. Interesting thread. While we're on the topic of chemistry and heat: Does anyone happen to know how to figure the energy requirements or yields for a reaction? My college chemistry book doesn't say a whole lot about it. In fact it doesn't say enough to actually be useful at all; it gives energies for four or five different bonds in a table and then launches into a really bad explanation of how to calculate this. If I have to use a table of bond energies is there one available online? Or is there a simpler way to just calculate the bloody things? I really ought to take more chemistry courses before I get my diploma. Or at the very least audit them. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 12:53:54 +0800 To: emc@wire.insync.net (Eric Cordian) Subject: Re: Interesting Chemical Reaction In-Reply-To: <199801280413.WAA08034@wire.insync.net> Message-ID: <199801280432.WAA22267@manifold.algebra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Eric Cordian wrote: > Igor writes: > > An interesting experiment is to mix the ordinary ammonium nitrate > > (a fertilizer) with room temp. water. Try to put in as much ammonium > > nitrate as it is possible to dissolve. > > You will see the temperature of the mixture DROP to below the freezing > > point (for pure water that is). > > Wow. I did that 12 years ago and was amazed. A really easy way to get > > cold water if no freezer is available. > > And for those who may think that endothermic reactions violate some basic > law about entropy always increasing, I should point out that the increase > in entropy from the uniform mixing of two different materials can more > than compensate for the decrease in temperature. Ain't science wonderful? I did understand the above, but thanks anyway Eric. What I still do not understand though is what happens between the water and ammonium nitrate that consumes so much energy. I mean, okay, you need to spend energy to mix these two things. Then, logically, they should not "want" to mix, right? But empirically, ammonuim nitrate literally sucks water vapors from the air. How come? - Igor. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 12:44:17 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: Planetary rovers, SETI and other musings, was Re: update.356 (fwd) Message-ID: <199801280442.WAA04344@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 20:34:48 -0800 > From: Tim May > Subject: Re: Planetary rovers, SETI and other musings, was Re: update.356 > (fwd) > Nothing in quantum teleportation has been shown to propagate signals faster > than light. (If you don't believe me, look into it. Start by reading the > FTL discussions about Bell's Theorem.) The actual transportation of the state is instantanious as it must be by quantum theory, just as the change in orbits of an electron occurs instantly. However, the catch is that the command/synchronization channel must be sent in parallel and it at some point can't use the quantum transportation technique and hence the speed-of-light comes back into play. This was specificaly discussed in the original quantum transportation announcement sent out by AIP. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Mac Norton Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 12:48:03 +0800 To: John Blair Subject: Re: Latest Clinton dodge? In-Reply-To: <199801271757.LAA14080@frodo.tucc.uab.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Now I remember why i resubscribed to punks. It was so I could laugh at the guys who deplore the irrelevant irreverence that makes you whackos' messages worth a diddly to begin with. MacN On Tue, 27 Jan 1998, John Blair wrote: > > Ahh... I remember now why I re-subscribed to Cypherpunks. It was for > all of the intelligent discussion that goes on here. At least back > in the days of Detweiler the character assassination was creative and > often fun to read. > > Can you please keep childish shots like this in private e-mail? It > has no place in this mailing list. > > -john. > > > > ...................................................................... > . . > .....John.D.Blair... mailto:jdblair@uab.edu phoneto:205.975.7123 . > . http://frodo.tucc.uab.edu faxto:205.975.7129 . > ..sys|net.admin.... . > . the university computer center ..... > ..... g.e.e.k.n.i.k...the.university.of.alabama.at.birmingham.... > > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: 2.6.3a > Charset: noconv > > iQCVAwUBNM4gCgJjTpK3AXhBAQHC/QQArCwnCHSCzgmUGjGkGtAEtkwnsiq8rbF8 > a8Ov/LKuFJslK8osLKawD+38nnY9Y3K4kvgnIT2EPRRrEzu2MxO7CKb2J/ly4QVZ > xPbQ357GlmnCWmHvgECY7A20iPjgAO/z+8t9OEkCPv47E6C9+yzPdUXtWZ6Uwp4h > uy/7Dm5eCkA= > =nH/J > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 14:47:53 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Exporting Code the Easy Way In-Reply-To: <34CD53FD.363A9C8C@netscape.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 9:44 PM -0800 1/27/98, Alan Olsen wrote: >At 07:26 PM 1/26/98 -0800, Tom Weinstein wrote: > >>Don't hold your breath. We're still bound by US export regulations, so >>we won't be able to export crypto-relevant source code. We'll release what >>we can, but you probably won't be satisfied. >> >>Of course, there's always the option for some enterprising individuals >>outside the US to replace the missing pieces. > >Or you could just publish the source code in a big book... ]:> Or even easier option: Dispense with the actual scanning and OCRing and simply _say_ the code was OCRed. Or, for that matter, don't even bother to say. U.S. Customs and the ITARs/EARs have no provisions for asking international users if the version they are using was compiled from source code printed in books! (This was my recommended approach for the PGP job...use the code off the CD-ROM, carried out in someone's luggage or mailed or sent over the Net, and then _say_ the OCRing was done....it's not as if U.S. Customs has any authority to question someone in Amsterdam or Denmark and demand proof that they really spent those hundreds of hours laboriously scanning and OCRing and proofreading....) Why do things the hard way? Seriously, when the code people use internationally is used, just who the hell cares whether it was ever scanned from a book or not? That only affects the issue of _export_, which is mooted anyway by the utter triviality of exporting software on CD-ROMs, DATs, through the mail, via FedEx and Airborne, through remailers, and on and on and on. Nobodu using "PGP International Version" has to worry one whit, no pun intended, about whether the code came from an original PGP distribution, or source code scanned and OCRed, so long as it checks out properly. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Eric Cordian Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 13:01:29 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: Planetary rovers, SETI and other musings, was Re: update.356 (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801280458.WAA08097@wire.insync.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Steve Shear postulates: > Of course one needn't stop there. If entangled states could be stored > for several years, instantaneous communication with neighbooring stars > is a real possibility. And in whose local Lorentz frame would such communication be "instantaneous"? > Coupled with advances in mind-machine science it > might someday be possible to explore, first-hand, our local portion of > the galaxy without leaving earth, or upload/download one's consciouness > to vessels in remote locations. Uh, no. The operators for corresponding observables at both ends of such an experiment commute, so it is not possible to transmit information non-locally using such an apparatus. This was discovered when the first experiments to verify the Einstein-Rosen-Podolsky effect were done. You need the results of measurements on the opposite end to decrypt the information at the end you are at. The Dancing Wu-Li Masters are closed for business. -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law" From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 13:00:35 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: update.350 (fwd) Message-ID: <199801280500.XAA04568@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: >From physnews@aip.org Wed Dec 10 16:59:59 1997 Date: Wed, 10 Dec 97 14:35:44 EST From: physnews@aip.org (AIP listserver) Message-Id: <9712101935.AA25024@aip.org> To: physnews-mailing@aip.org Subject: update.350 PHYSICS NEWS UPDATE The American Institute of Physics Bulletin of Physics News Number 350 December 10, 1997 by Phillip F. Schewe and Ben Stein QUANTUM TELEPORTATION has been experimentally demonstrated by physicists at the University of Innsbruck (Anton Zeilinger, 011-43-676-305-8608, anton.zeilinger@ uibk.ac.at; Dik Bouwmeester, Dik.Bouwmeester@uibk.ac.at). First proposed in 1993 by Charles Bennett of IBM (914-945-3118), quantum teleportation allow physicists to take a photon (or any other quantum-scale particle, such as an atom), and transfer its properties (such as its polarization) to another photon--even if the two photons are on opposite sides of the galaxy. Note that this scheme transports the particle's properties to the remote location and not the particle itself. And as with Star Trek's Captain Kirk, whose body is destroyed at the teleporter and reconstructed at his destination, the state of the original photon must be destroyed to create an exact reconstruction at the other end. In the Innsbruck experiment, the researchers create a pair of photons A and B that are quantum mechanically "entangled": the polarization of each photon is in a fuzzy, undetermined state, yet the two photons have a precisely defined interrelationship. If one photon is later measured to have, say, a horizontal polarization, then the other photon must "collapse" into the complementary state of vertical polarization. In the experiment, one of the entangled photons A arrives at an optical device at the exact time as a "message" photon M whose polarization state is to be teleported. These two photons enter a device where they become indistinguishable, thus effacing our knowledge of M's polarization (the equivalent of destroying Kirk).What the researchers have verified is that by ensuring that M's polarization is complementary to A's, then B's polarization would now have to assume the same value as M's. In other words, although M and B have never been in contact, B has been imprinted with M's polarization value, across the whole galaxy, instantaneously. This does not mean that faster-than-light information transfer has occurred. The people at the sending station must still convey the fact that teleportation had been successful by making a phone call or using some other light-speed or sub-light-speed means of communication. While physicists don't foresee the possibility of teleporting large-scale objects like humans, this scheme will have uses in quantum computing and cryptography. (D. Bouwmeester et al., Nature, 11 Dec 1997; see also www.aip.org/physnews/graphics) DO EARTHQUAKES HAVE ELECTRICAL PRECURSORS? The elastic waves measured by seismometers are transmitted by the flexing crust while an earthquake is doing its worst. But some scientists believe that flexing also goes on in the hours and even weeks before a quake. Too small to be detected seismically, the flexing might well be sensed electrically. As underground strata rearrange themselves before a quake, the thinking goes, pockets of water are squeezed into new configurations, changing local conduction properties, which can be monitored with buried electrodes. On this basis Panayiotis Varotsos at the University of Athens (011-30-1-894-9849, pvaro@leon.nrcps.ariadne-t.gr), has reportedly predicted certain quakes in Greece weeks ahead of time by triangulating voltage differentials at the level of 10 millivolts/km over distances of 100 km. (Some skeptics dispute this assertion.) In new research, Varotsos buttresses his claims with laboratory studies of another system under pressure which puts out transient electrical signals before it fractures, namely a crystal containing a variety of dislocations and defects. Conductivity patterns in the crystal convince Varotsos that analogous patterns (although on a much bigger distance scale) observed in the buried electrode arrays constitute a true earthquake precursor. (Varotsos et al., Journal of Applied Physics, 1 Jan, 1998; journalists can obtain the paper from physnews@aip.org.) From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 13:05:20 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: Planetary rovers, SETI and other musings, was Re: update.356 (fwd) Message-ID: <199801280504.XAA04662@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > From: Eric Cordian > Subject: Re: Planetary rovers, SETI and other musings, was Re: update.356 (fwd) > Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 22:58:28 -0600 (CST) > > Of course one needn't stop there. If entangled states could be stored > > for several years, instantaneous communication with neighbooring stars > > is a real possibility. > > And in whose local Lorentz frame would such communication be > "instantaneous"? Actualy, if we are talking about instantanious events the event itself is not frame relevant, thought exactly when and where the event occurred may be. Consider an electron when it changes orbitals does so in zero time. So the question that the photon was emitted is not at issue, now where that photon came from and at what clock tick may in fact be. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 13:17:49 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Clinton for Nobel Peace Prize [CNN] Message-ID: <199801280515.XAA04830@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Clinton Nominated For Nobel Peace Prize > > OSLO, Norway (Reuters) - President Clinton, engulfed in asex scandal > and fighting for his political life, won anomination Tuesday for the > 1998 Nobel Peace Prize from admirersof his foreign policy. > [text deleted] ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Robert Hettinga Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 12:48:17 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: ULotD? Cuban Tattoos. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 9:58 pm -0500 on 1/27/98, Tim May wrote: > Utter bullshit. Agreed. On several levels of reference, I think... > Extraordinary jokes require extraordinary proof. Indeed. Hence my use of the word "apocrypha" to introduce it. And the OxDEADBEEF list moderator's use of "ULotD", for, it seems, "Urban Legend of the Day". Note Perry Metzger's follow-on, which I also forwarded at the same time. (You remember Perry, right? He liked to talk about cryptography here once... Yeah, Tim, I know. You *knew* Perry Metzger, and, frankly, Mr. Hettinga, yada, yada, yada) Cheers, Bob Hettinga ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/ Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Steve Schear Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 15:46:14 +0800 To: Eric Cordian Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >This was discovered when the first experiments to verify the >Einstein-Rosen-Podolsky effect were done. You need the results of >measurements on the opposite end to decrypt the information at the end you >are at. I guess I'm over my head in such matters. From my, admitedly, shallow understanding of wave function collapse, etc., I was under the apparent misimpression that once collapsed (e.g., by Alice entangling a 'modulation' photon M (of a known polarization) with one member (photon A) of an entangled pair, one of which was sent to Alice and the other (photon B) which was sent to Bob, photon B's polarization state was determined and could not subsequently be altered by Bob's measurement with his receiver. Could you recommend a good article which explain this paradox to a non-quantum mechanic? --Steve From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Steve Schear Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 15:49:37 +0800 To: Tim May Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 8:34 PM -0800 1/27/98, Tim May wrote: >At 7:56 PM -0800 1/27/98, Steve Schear wrote: >>Of course one needn't stop there. If entangled states could be stored for >>several years, instantaneous communication with neighbooring stars is a >>real possibility. Coupled with advances in mind-machine science it might >>someday be possible to explore, first-hand, our local portion of the galaxy >>without leaving earth, or upload/download one's consciouness to vessels in >>remote locations. > >Who's your supplier? EPR Pharmaceuticals. Want their address? --Steve From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: ? the Platypus {aka David Formosa} Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 22:36:41 +0800 To: "Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM" Subject: Re: State of the Union Address In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- On Tue, 27 Jan 1998, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote: > Rabid Wombat writes: [...] > > > > 11) Michelle mixes one gram of HCl and one half gram of NaOH. Under norma > > > > circumstances, what is produced and in what quantities? > > > > > > The correct answer is an explosion and a big mess. One student in my high > > > school chemistry class learned this the hard way. :) > > > > > > > Um, salt water explodes? > > Where is Jim Bell when we need him? The question depeands on what is normal circumstances? Noramly HCl is suppled dissolved in warter, where it will react quite safly with NaOH to create salt warter. However gassius HCl is a diffrent beast entirly, but this is rare in a high school enviroment. - -- Please excuse my spelling as I suffer from agraphia see the url in my header. Never trust a country with more peaple then sheep. ex-net.scum and proud You Say To People "Throw Off Your Chains" And They Make New Chains For Themselves? --Terry Pratchett. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBNM3ZKaQK0ynCmdStAQHTpwP/f8A4gxFNgA8LjKp7dc74DwQ1P+wota1v 0t476LJRpJh+iJporLYtyHVRwpwHv9vaxID8Y0hjMYQkgDp++oWDIgqA4m2/JV1V WhXizo5Q97A0CnoMPCbLgOYb0VxXbbhFmdJ9MtwofOSaH8hBmtn0o9EOMTBCNgRo eaCQkNxqMtk= =5b8J -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "snow" Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 14:37:55 +0800 To: attila@primenet.com Subject: Re: Clinton needs a war with Iraq In-Reply-To: <19980125.091156.attila@hun.org> Message-ID: <199801280634.AAA07810@smoke.suba.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > since the Korean war, American involvement in foreign wars, > or the war effort, has escalated in relationship to the > needs of the economy --the war effort boosts industrial > utilization --eg money and the economy-- and Americans vote > with their pocketbooks. World War II. > I frankly dont believe you made that suggestion --the damage > would not be to the government, but to our fellow citizens > who have been ordered to commence action. I did not agree Not if used properly. It could properly be used to _delay_ engagement, or even avoid it. Besides, they (and I was one at one time) volunteered. Most every one in the military now has had the chance to leave since Cliton took office. Their continued enlistment is support. > regardless of the immorality and stupidity of Clinton, there > is no justification, and certainly no honour, for permitting > KIA American troops to be dumped into the spectacle of being > dragged through the streets of Somalia, etc. If those with the power were to make sure that they never got there, then they couldn't be dragged thru the streets now could they? From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Bill Stewart Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 17:07:58 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: feedME account In-Reply-To: <199801271349.IAA17868@thunder.ica.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980128013237.00884c00@popd.ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Normally I'd try to get the cypherpunks mailing list removed from this mailing list, but a web-based open news reader looks like a useful thing to have, and it looks like they try to do advertising on the web pages rather than sending out lots of email. The password is limited to 8 characters, so it's now writecod :-) At 08:49 AM 1/27/98 -0500, you wrote: >----------------------------------------------------------- > feedME - the world's easiest newsreader > http://www.feedME.org >----------------------------------------------------------- > >Your Username is: cypherpunks >Your Password is: kimkdqof > >If you have any problems, queries or suggestions please email: > admin@feedme.org > >You should change your password as soon as possible (if >you haven't already done so), the address for changing it is: > http://www.feedme.org/changepass.html > >Remember that we don't allow anyone to SPAM through feedME, >nor do we let people post any form of commerical or web-site >advertisements - if you are unclear always mail admin. > >Regards, >Michael Bennett >Creator of feedME > > > Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Zooko Journeyman Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 08:47:33 +0800 To: apatrizi@cmp.com Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <199801280041.BAA19241@xs2.xs4all.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain (A letter to Andy Patrizio of TechWeb, www.techweb.com, Cc: to cypherpunks@toad.com, malda@slashdot.org and gnu@gnu.org. May I remind the audience to use the technique which will benefit your goals rather than harm them: politeness.) Sir, I beg to differ regarding your assertion in "http://www.techweb.com/wire/story/TWB19980126S0015" that open source code has little value. While your article makes the very good point that a higher level of abstraction (the API level) is a better platform for most "interoperation" or "extension" uses, you omit several important considerations. I will attempt to describe three of those considerations here. The first consideraton is that open source code is of unparalleled value in ensuring security and stability of a complex system. Witness the fact that when the Pentium "F00F" bug was discovered last year, the Linux operating system had a fix distributed within 7 calendar days, while Microsoft took more than twice as long to issue a fix. This is doubly important for mission-critical systems and triply so for security-critical systems which may be subject to hostile attack. Indeed, many computer security professionals of my acquaintance say that they _will_ _not_ use a system to protect valuable data unless they and their peers are able to examine the source code. The second consideration is that an open software development model can (sometimes) generate a surprising amount of quality code at high speed. The pre-eminent example of this phenomenon is the Linux operating system, which in many ways has outstripped comparable proprietary operating systems in performance, features, stability, _and_ in time-to-market. The third value in open source code is more controversial-- it gives your users more control over the product. An all-too- common business tactic in the software industry is, as Scott McNealy calls it, "proprietary lock-in", in which a company deliberately makes their product incompatible with competing products in order to ensure that the customer can't use that product in conjunction with a competitor's product. With the current trend towards a convergence of interoperating software products, this tactic is becoming increasingly oppressive to customers. This tactic is not possible with open source code, because competitors, customers, or free-lance hackers can use the open source in order to make the two products interoperable. Needless to say, not all in the business community would consider this last feature to be a benefit. (Although I think that all in the business community would consider the first two features to be a benefit.) I hope that this letter has been of interest to you. I have been a software developer, industry-watcher, and open-source- code enthusiast for years, and I was grieved to think that your article might deter open-minded readers from considering the full implications of an open source code strategy. The idea of open source code has been a "fringe" concept for decades (see seminal open-source advocate and hacker Richard Stallman, www.fsf.org), and I'm delighted to think that with Netscape's move, and with the rumored possibility that Sun will open some of its Java source, that this idea could finally get a fair hearing before the business community. Regards, Zooko, Journeyman Hacker P.S. Among software professionals that I know, the only ones who make USD 100K/year or more are the ones who consider themselves to be "hackers". :-) From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jonathan Wienke Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 18:33:02 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: RE: Latest Clinton dodge? In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980127090723.008012c0@206.40.207.40> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980128020312.006b2420@popd.netcruiser> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Years ago, when Clinton was primarily known for his frequent patronage of McDonalds, he was affectionately known as "Mr. JoeBlob." With the current sex scandal(s), you can turn that around and it still fits... From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Anonymous Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 10:32:45 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: State of the Union Address Message-ID: <199801280225.DAA21669@basement.replay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >Does anyone happen to know how to figure the energy requirements or yields >for a reaction? Just to make sure I'm not misinterpreted, I mean how much energy is required or is liberated by a given reaction. I don't mean "...figure the energy, requirements, or yields," or "figure the energy requirements or products it yields." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Graham-John Bullers Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 19:27:50 +0800 To: Mix Subject: Re: your mail In-Reply-To: <199801271939.LAA19093@sirius.infonex.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Tue, 27 Jan 1998, Mix wrote: rn > The only `culture' Timothy `C' Maypole possesses is that > cultivated from his foreskin scrapings. > > ,/ \, > ((__,-,,,-,__)), Timothy `C' Maypole > `--)~ ~(--` > .-'( )`-, > `~~`d\ /b`~~` > | | > (6___6) > `---` > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Graham-John Bullers Moderator of alt.2600.moderated ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ email : : ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://www.freenet.edmonton.ab.ca/~real/index.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Graham-John Bullers Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 19:28:11 +0800 To: Mix Subject: Re: your mail In-Reply-To: <199801271939.LAA19093@sirius.infonex.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain rn ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Graham-John Bullers Moderator of alt.2600.moderated ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ email : : ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://www.freenet.edmonton.ab.ca/~real/index.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Graham-John Bullers Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 19:28:13 +0800 To: Mix Subject: Re: your mail In-Reply-To: <199801271939.LAA19093@sirius.infonex.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Tue, 27 Jan 1998, Mix wrote: I think Vulis needs each of us to send ten copies of this back to him. > The only `culture' Timothy `C' Maypole possesses is that > cultivated from his foreskin scrapings. > > ,/ \, > ((__,-,,,-,__)), Timothy `C' Maypole > `--)~ ~(--` > .-'( )`-, > `~~`d\ /b`~~` > | | > (6___6) > `---` > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Graham-John Bullers Moderator of alt.2600.moderated ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ email : : ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://www.freenet.edmonton.ab.ca/~real/index.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 11:49:38 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: State of the Union Address Message-ID: <199801280338.EAA00309@basement.replay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Another Anonymous writes: >>Does anyone happen to know how to figure the energy requirements or yields >>for a reaction? > >Just to make sure I'm not misinterpreted, I mean how much energy is required >or is liberated by a given reaction. I don't mean "...figure the energy, >requirements, or yields," or "figure the energy requirements or products it >yields." It has been fifteen years since I even opened a chemistry book, but I think what you're looking for is called the "heat of enthalpy." You could find this in most any intro-level chem book, and there's probably a whole shitload of reactions listed in the _CRC Handbook Of Chemistry & Physics_. Since HCl+NaOH is an acid-base reaction, you could also use something called the "heat of neutralization." IIRC, that's something like 57 KJ/mol for strong acids. But don't take my word for it; I'm Not A Chemist Any More. P-Chem gave me a great appreciation for math and computers. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Secret Squirrel Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 13:06:23 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: State of the Union Address Message-ID: <9368cd36f48cad9082a5752cc79eec8e@squirrel> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >Well, if it was 40 grams of NaOH and 36.5 grams of HCl, then you >would have 18 grams of water and 58.5 grams of NaCl. With 1g HCl to >.5g NaOH, well, you have an acidic, salty, mess. However, HCl >is a gas at STP, and NaOH is a solid... > >Basically, it's an incredibly poorly worded question. It looks like the original poster grabbed two of the simplest acids and bases he could find and plugged them into the question. HCl is usually provided in an aqueous solution. NaOH is a solid. In those two states they'll combine quite well with each other. The "explosion and a big mess" would come from somebody just chucking a lot of both chemicals together without any regard what is going on. I think Anonymous was more interested in what products were produced and how much of each were produced, and then made the mistake of assuming that the chemist had enough brains not to go chuck two reactive chemicals together without the competence to run through the necessary calculations. Throwing together any amount of any chemicals without knowing what you're doing is a very bad idea. It's a good way to "accidentally" produce chlorine gas, carbon monoxide, or worse. If you don't know what you're doing or you aren't at least minimally competent and take appropriate safety precautions, keep it on paper. Personally, I steer clear of college and high school chemistry labs for this reason. I watched some idiot produce chlorine gas back in high school, though thankfully not in any really, really dangerous quantities. NaOH + HCl ---> NaCl + H O 2 It's a nice, simple reaction. To answer the question the student would have to know the atomic masses of chlorine, hydrogen, oxygen, and sodium, but that could easily be gleaned off a periodic table provided the student was competent enough to ask for one if he needed it. I doubt most college chemistry professors would analyze it that well either, to tell you the truth. They'd give the question and it's assumed that the necessary steps are taken to ensure a reaction (if any). Of course "normal circumstances" is kind of a wide area. The question should have been worded more like this: 11) Michelle mixes one gram of HCl and one half gram of NaOH. The HCl is dissolved in water. Assuming that Michelle is competent enough to avoid blowing herself across the room or destroying the lab, what are the products and in what quantities are they produced? From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Lucky Green Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 12:36:18 +0800 To: Tim May Subject: Re: future proofing algorihtms In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Tue, 27 Jan 1998, Tim May wrote: > A LAM approach is low tech, and can be implemented easily enough. (And > PipeNet becomes much more feasible...) I agree. > Even an adventurous company, with many machines on various networks, could > deploy a LAM on their network. There are several such companies outside the US that I can think of. > (Though the laws about corporate culpability are written in ways that a > Silicon Graphics or Sun or C2Net would have much to fear in having their > corporate network associated with a LAM of any sort. Hence my point about > many and varied residential users in a physical building being the LAM > nodes.) Sure. A LAM would not happen at any of the above companies. But there are several non-US ISP's and other outfits with triple fiber to the backbone that could set this up. [You know who I am talking about, lurkers. :-) How about it]? > Another point about LAMs is that they are useful as "concentrators" for > PipeNet connections. To wit, > > Suppose someone has deployed a PipeNet connection to another node. Fine, > but the NSA and Mossad and GCHQ and other enemies of freedom may watch the > traffic flowing into the node feeding that PipeNet connection. > > So why not do a better job of "loading" this PipeNet connection by having a > LAM at the site? Then, watchers see the stuff flowing into the LAM, and > have less idea (correlation-wise) of what's then making use of the PipeNet > connection. That setup would work even better if operated by a major ISP. If you run 10% of a country's (and be it a small country) IP traffic through a LAM, the computations an attacker has to perform become complex to the point of being intractable. Especially if the ISP runs dial-up. [Lurkers, your thoughs please]? Of course we won't see such sites until somebody writes the software. Cypherpunks write code, -- Lucky Green PGP v5 encrypted email preferred. "Tonga? Where the hell is Tonga? They have Cypherpunks there?" From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Lucky Green Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 12:38:48 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: State of the Union Address In-Reply-To: <8463c019601705d91ebc98ca08ee4e29@anon.efga.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Get a Chemisty 101/2 book. You must have been in the bone head chemistry class. On Tue, 27 Jan 1998, Anonymous wrote: > >I guess those high school students aren't the only ones with no clear > >idea of the way the world works. While salt water does not ordinarily > >explode, in this case salt water is the ultimate product -- but massive > >heat released when acids and bases join and recombine to produce salts > >(in this case table salt) and water. > > Interesting thread. While we're on the topic of chemistry and heat: > > Does anyone happen to know how to figure the energy requirements or yields > for a reaction? My college chemistry book doesn't say a whole lot about it. > In fact it doesn't say enough to actually be useful at all; it gives > energies for four or five different bonds in a table and then launches into > a really bad explanation of how to calculate this. > > If I have to use a table of bond energies is there one available online? Or > is there a simpler way to just calculate the bloody things? > > I really ought to take more chemistry courses before I get my diploma. Or at > the very least audit them. > > -- Lucky Green PGP v5 encrypted email preferred. "Tonga? Where the hell is Tonga? They have Cypherpunks there?" From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: amp@pobox.com Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 14:49:38 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Fw: Congratulations, Bill, You've WON! Netscape Recommends Explorer! In-Reply-To: <199801271704.LAA18643@lawgiver.megacity.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain FYI. ------------------------ From: Linda Thompson Subject: Congratulations, Bill, You've WON! Netscape Recommends Explorer! Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 11:04:00 -0600 To: amp@pobox.com Cc: news@aen.org, chat@aen.org Will you please forward this to cypherpunks and anyplace else that might find it interesting? Thanks. Today, I called Netscape because of a problem with it being unable to play .wav files on a webpage (without a plug-in). I am using Netscape Gold 3.03. I won't get 3.04 after reading about it's new "fixes" that say NOT to use a ~ for webpage addresses, but instead, to use /./ -- Is anyone in their right mind going to try that on their webpages? I've got about 40 megs of webpages and I'm NOT going to reconfigure them because Netscape's programmers are a bunch of jackasses. I configured Netscape's helper applications menu to use mplayer, which is bundled with Windows, and then tried to use it to browse my own webpage, with a .wav file on it. (1) Netscape would not save the configuration of mplayer in the helper applications settings. Mplayer would stay in the configuration for that session, but upon exiting to DOS and reloading Windows and Netscape, the setting would no longer be present. (2) If I didn't check to see that mplayer was still set up in the Netscape helper applications configuration, and browsed the page with the .wav file, I would get a message from Netscape "Unable to play .wav file." In the meantime, Netscape WIPED OUT all my sound drivers in memory. They were still present in the windows/system directory, but had to be (1) reloaded through Windows Utilities; (2) reloaded through Soundblaster utilities in DOS and (3) I had to do a cold reboot to get them to work again. THEN I found that the volume on the mixer that comes with Windows, had been set to "0" by Netscape. Since I could duplicate these results, repeatedly, it appeared to be a bug. I called Netscape about it. GRADY WILSON AT NETSCAPE TOLD ME TO USE INTERNET EXPLORER. First he told me to reinstall Netscape (already did that). Then he told me to get Netscape 3.04. I told him I wouldn't and I wanted to know why Netscape out of the box, which is SUPPOSED to play a .wav file, wouldn't play a .wav file and wouldn't save the configuration. He said it would, and I said obviously it doesn't, or I wouldn't be calling, and why else would Netscape have to have a blue million "plug ins." Next he said "mplayer" was corrupt (it isn't and works fine, even with Netscape, so long as Netscape hasn't yet deleted its own configuration setting mplayer to play .wav files). I told him this. That is when GRADY WILSON AT NETSCAPE TOLD ME TO USE INTERNET EXPLORER. So, congratulations, Bill, you've won. NETSCAPE ITSELF is now telling people to get Explorer. ************ V ***************** DEATH TO THE NEW WORLD ORDER ********************************** Remember Waco. The Murderers are still free (and running YOUR country.) See the proof: http://www.Public-Action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum ********************************* My son, David, has been missing since Sept. 19, 1997. Please help us find him. ---------------End of Original Message----------------- === E-mail: amp@pobox.com Date: 01/28/98 Time: 06:45:54 Visit me at http://www.pobox.com/~amp -export-a-crypto-system-sig -RSA-3-lines-PERL #!/bin/perl -sp0777i Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 22:31:53 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: Planetary rovers, SETI and other musings, was Re: update.356 (fwd) Message-ID: <199801281428.IAA06743@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 23:44:50 -0800 > From: Steve Schear > Subject: Re: Planetary rovers, SETI and other musings, was Re: update.356 > (fwd) > I guess I'm over my head in such matters. From my, admitedly, shallow > understanding of wave function collapse, etc., I was under the apparent > misimpression that once collapsed (e.g., by Alice entangling a 'modulation' > photon M (of a known polarization) with one member (photon A) of an > entangled pair, one of which was sent to Alice and the other (photon B) > which was sent to Bob, photon B's polarization state was determined and > could not subsequently be altered by Bob's measurement with his receiver. > Could you recommend a good article which explain this paradox to a > non-quantum mechanic? The state is determined *at the time of collapse*. Once the collapse occurs the synchronization is no longer present and subsequent events can indeed alter the polarization of one particle without altering the other. Simply bouncing that photon via refraction off a surface can alter the polarization. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Roger J Jones" Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 23:25:33 +0800 To: Subject: Tim May as censor?????????? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801281519.JAA04493@pc1824.ibpinc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >Jeez, this is not "ChemPunks." >Calculating exothermic and endothermic yields (measured in "kcal/mole") for >various chemistry reactions was a central part of my sophomore chemistry >class in high school 30 years ago. >I suggest the question askers consult any of the most basic chemistry >textbooks. >--Tim May Tim, Can this be? Censorship from the man on the mountain? So unlike you...... From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Adam Back Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 19:17:41 +0800 To: alan@clueserver.org Subject: typo in tattoo (Re: ULotD? Cuban Tattoos.) In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980127214312.03fd8160@clueserver.org> Message-ID: <199801280949.JAA00421@server.eternity.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Alan Olsen writes: > At 05:14 PM 1/27/98 -0500, Robert Hettinga wrote: > > >From: "Perry E. Metzger" > > > > > >The story posted is an urban legend. > > > >It is NOT an urban legend that someone has been tattooed with "RSA in > >Perl". A picture of Richard White's tattoo is at: > > > >http:/www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/tattoo.html > > It is also true that he had a typo in the tattoo. It seems someone, who > will remain unnamed, joked about "what if it has a typo, is it still a > violation of ITAR?". Seems they decided to proof read it. "Doh!" There was a typo in the tattoo, fortunately it was correctable, they missed out a backtick (`). You can see this on the tattoo gif referenced above: it says ...$_=echo "16... and it should say ...$_=`echo "16... I pointed this out to Richard White when he sent me the gif of his tattoo, and he had his wife put in the backtick, as there is a reasonable amount of space between the = and e of echo. If anyone wants to repeat the exercise, the perl/dc program is smaller now: print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 23:40:45 +0800 To: Rabid Wombat Subject: Re: State of the Union Address In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <34CF78E9.5F29@acm.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Rabid Wombat wrote: > > On Tue, 27 Jan 1998, Paul H. Merrill wrote: > > > Rabid Wombat wrote: > > > > > > On Sat, 24 Jan 1998, Matthew Ghio wrote: > > > > > > > Anonymous wrote: > > > > > > > > > [1] Grab a totally random sample of 100 high school students. Haul the > > > > > students out one at a time and ask them the following questions: > > > > [snip] > > > > > 11) Michelle mixes one gram of HCl and one half gram of NaOH. Under normal > > > > > circumstances, what is produced and in what quantities? > > > > > > > > > > > > > The correct answer is an explosion and a big mess. One student in my high > > > > school chemistry class learned this the hard way. :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Um, salt water explodes? > > > > I guess those high school students aren't the only ones with no clear > > idea of the way the world works. While salt water does not ordinarily > > explode, in this case salt water is the ultimate product -- but massive > > heat released when acids and bases join and recombine to produce salts > > (in this case table salt) and water. > > > > while some do feel (especially on this list) that the ends justify the > > means -- this is one means that definitely does not go along with that > > "rule". > > > > PHM. > > > > Actually the qustion is probably hosed, as the ratio should be 1:1 > Hcl:NaOH mol, not weight (which would be about 10:9 Hcl:NaOH or so if I'm > not confused here) ... the idea being that if you calculate and measure > just right, you can mix too highly dangerous chemicals and will get > saltwater which you can drink. If you don't measure just right, and drink > it, you are rightly fucked, so don't try this at home. > > Can't find exact delta-h listed for NaOH, but rough guess on this reaction > is maybe 150,000 - 175,000 joules, or about half a box of kitchen matches > worth of heat (~150-175 btu ?), which wouldn't boil a quart of water. I > suppose if you had a small enough solution you could get a small "bang" > out of vaporizing the water. Not exactly a terrorist threat. > > A moderate amount of heat, but without increasing the number of > molecules, where's the explosion? Am I missing something? Looks like warm > saltwater to me. OTOH, I don't know anything about chemistry 'cuz I > always got kicked outa class for doing dumber things than mixing Hcl and > NaOH and drinking it, which is the usual stunt. Don't try this at home, > and don't take chemistry advice from marsupials. > > btw - didn't really "do the math" on this, and it's 2am, so it could be > wildly innacurate. > > -r.w. yes, the quantities are small, thus total heat is small, but so is the mass to be heated (who cares idf it will boils a quart when we are talking about a couple of grams). Explosion is perhaps a poor choice of words, but I would not like to be in the spatter zone of it either. PHM From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Adam Back Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 19:18:39 +0800 To: tcmay@got.net Subject: how to ensure 128 bit netscape is used world wide (Re: Exporting Code the Easy Way) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801281029.KAA00449@server.eternity.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Tim May writes: > At 9:44 PM -0800 1/27/98, Alan Olsen wrote: > >At 07:26 PM 1/26/98 -0800, Tom Weinstein wrote: > > > >>Don't hold your breath. We're still bound by US export regulations, so > >>we won't be able to export crypto-relevant source code. We'll release what > >>we can, but you probably won't be satisfied. > >> > >>Of course, there's always the option for some enterprising individuals > >>outside the US to replace the missing pieces. > > > >Or you could just publish the source code in a big book... ]:> > > Or even easier option: > > Dispense with the actual scanning and OCRing and simply _say_ the code was > OCRed. Or, for that matter, don't even bother to say. U.S. Customs and the > ITARs/EARs have no provisions for asking international users if the version > they are using was compiled from source code printed in books! > > Why do things the hard way? Agree strongly. The problem is not in the export, which as Tim says happens soon enough anyway, as anyone can verify looking at www.replay.com where a good collection of 128 bit browsers can be obtained. The problem is netscape's distribution license. I tried to work out why netscape is only carried at certain sites, and why all of the sites which do carry it carry 40 bit. The answer seems to be that even though the netscape browser is free for academic use, that netscape tries to control distribution by requiring distributing sites to sign their distribution license. Netscape's motive for this restrictive distribution license I presume is an attempt to reduce risk of hacked copies (say with virususes embedded) being distributed. By keeping the number of sites controlled (albeit by weak legal mechanism) they keep the sites to a small number of large reputable ftp sites. This leads to the conclusion that the best thing netscape could do is: - not distribute a 40 bit version in electronic form at all, forcing overseas sites to keep 128 bit versions - have shrink wrap 40 bit versions sold overseas if they must, but have strict license prohibiting electronic distribution - modify the distribution license to allow free distribution of the 128 bit version (none of this distributors must sign a license) - ensure that the license on the purchased 40 bit version allows one to use the freely obtained 128 bit version in a commercial setting Problem solved. No need to fiddle around with printing source code in books, or to waste time remove crypto calls and hooks from source code, nor waste some one elses time recoding the omitted code. So, how about it netscape? Adam -- Now officially an EAR violation... Have *you* exported RSA today? --> http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/ print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 17:53:28 +0800 To: Robert Hettinga Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980128133041.0088ec40@popd.ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 11:21 PM 1/27/98 -0500, Robert Hettinga wrote: >At 9:58 pm -0500 on 1/27/98, Tim May wrote: >> Utter bullshit. >Agreed. On several levels of reference, I think... Well of course it was! But a well-crafted urban legend, with enough truth and enough deliberate bogosity to be worthwhile. Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Bill Stewart Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 17:53:43 +0800 To: Jim Choate Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980128133959.0088d310@popd.ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >> Speaking of which, do the current SETI programs check for signal >> modulation using polarization. Speaking of SETI, their current intent is to do a distributed computation spread across thousands of computers, similar to some of the keycracking efforts. Details at http://www.bigscience.com ; the Recent News section says they're currently trying to figure out about funding. Meanwhile, there's www.mersenne.org for factoring big prime numbers. Tim wrote: > Nothing in quantum teleportation has been shown to propagate > signals faster than light. (If you don't believe me, look into it. > Start by reading the FTL discussions about Bell's Theorem.) But I thought Jim Bell had a solution to ..... :-) Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Pearson Shane Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 13:12:10 +0800 To: "'David Honig'" Subject: RE: FW: Symantec Norton, Your Eyes Only. Message-ID: <01ISWZV6P6C200AYSF@hmgwy1.isd.tafensw.edu.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Hi guys, If I could get access to the source, understand all of it fully, and understand how it will act under Win95 with whatever compiler they used, I could probably write my own. So I guess it comes down to trust. Thanks for the replies. Bye for now. > -----Original Message----- > From: David Honig [SMTP:honig@otc.net] > Sent: Saturday, January 24, 1998 5:08 AM > To: Pearson Shane; 'William H. Geiger III' > Cc: 'cypherpunks@toad.com' > Subject: RE: FW: Symantec Norton, Your Eyes Only. > > At 03:46 PM 1/23/98 +1100, Pearson Shane wrote: > >Hi William, > > > >Many thanks for the reply. > > > >I was hoping it was ok having Blowfish, > >but I guess it could be their own > >"efficient" version. > > > >Bye for now. > > > > WHGIII gave you the most conservative answer. That is, in cryptology, > the > correct answer. > > A more detailed analysis would say: > > * the blowfish algorithm is considered strong for various reasons > > * IFF the Norton program were written correctly > (not just the algorithm implementation, but key hiding, > worrying about getting swapped onto disk by the OS, etc.) > then it would be a useful tool for security. > > * Without examining the source, any assumption of security > from using the tool relies *absolutely* on your trust of the > implementor. > > (In a Turing award paper, Ritchie described how you > implicitly must trust your compiler-writers too.. the > compiler could have clandestine functions like inserting > extra code when it recognizes patterns) > > So you see how WHGIII was correct, although for practical > purposes (depending on the value of your data and the > attackers you anticipate, plus the security of the rest of your > system (only as strong as the weakest link)) you may find this tool > acceptable > in the non-exportable version. Keylength-limited versions are > worthless > from a security viewpoint. > > But on this mailing list, you won't find the yes/no answer > you probably want. Which is probably correct behavior for this list. > > Cheers, > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > David Honig Orbit Technology > honig@otc.net Intaanetto Jigyoubu > > "The tragedy of Galois is that he could have contributed so much > more to mathematics if he'd only spent more time on his marksmanship." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Pearson Shane Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 13:58:09 +0800 To: "'cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: RE: More dumb ad sites for your killfile Message-ID: <01ISX1DJ3ZQA00C0LU@hmgwy1.isd.tafensw.edu.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Hi all, Can I have a killfile for Outlook 97 or am I limited to the Inbox assistant? Thanks, > -----Original Message----- > From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com [SMTP:dlv@bwalk.dm.com] > Sent: Monday, January 26, 1998 5:50 PM > To: cypherpunks@toad.com > Subject: Re: More dumb ad sites for your killfile > > nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) writes: > > ads.lycos.com > > ad.doubleclick.net > > ads.altavista.digital.com > > ad.preferences.com > > ph-ad*.focalink.com > > www.news.com/Banners > > ads.lycos.com > > static.wired.com/advertising > > A desirable feature for a proxy would be to filter portions of what it > gets. > If we're getting a URL that matches a pattern (like > www.stocks.hotshit.com), > then once we see a certain pattern in the HTML (start of embedded ad), > excise the HTML until we see another pattern. A set of triples. > > My block file so far is much bigger than yours. Anyone cares to keep > the > official big blocklist? :-) > > ********************************************************************** > **** > victory.cnn.com/(image|click).ng/ > /fox/graphics/yuppie.gif > ads.web.aol.com > /*/rsac.jpg > /gifs/ads/ > webtrack.com > # look for guesttrack > /.*/rsacirated.gif > /shell-cgi/adserv/ads > /adserver/ > /ad-graphics/ > /cgi-win/tracker > /cgi-bin/Count > /cgi-bin/guesttrack > webcrawler.com/icons/(tenants.*|bottom_logo).gif > netads.*.com/ > mckinley.com/img/magellan/butnbar.gif > #hotbot.com > hotbot.com/images/list.*.gif > # > banner-net.com/ > /cgi-bin/nph-count > # yahoo > /us.yimg.com/images/compliance/ > # Internet explorer logos > /.*/ie.*_(animated|static|sm).gif > /.*/netnow.*.gif > pagecount.com > gm.preferences.com > # da Silva's stupid list of mailing lists > /internet/paml/sponsors > /gifs/mlogo3.gif > #dejanews > /gifs/tripod.gif > /gifs/browsers.gif > /gifs/dnlogo_r.*.gif > # domains > smartclicks.com/ > resource-marketing.com/ > valueclick.com/ > bannermall.com/ > iname.com/ > bannerweb.com/ > eads.com/ > /interdex/reciprocal/ > /cgi-bin/spim/sp/ > adforce..*.com/ > /cgi-bin/adclick > imageserv.imgis.com/images/ > /g/ads/ > # > /graphics/ads/ > /OAS/ugo/adstream.cgi/ > /content/cgi-bin/clickad/ > /content/advertising/ > /.*/(S|s)ponsors/.*.gif > /cgi-bin/pn/show_ad > /gif/ads/ > .*banner.*.gif > /ad/ > /adgenius/ > /adproof/ > /(A|a)ds/ > /adv/ > /advertising/ > /adverts/ > /avimages/ > /banner_ds/ > /banners/ > /banners?/ > /CategoryID=0 > /cgi-bin/ad-bin/ > /cgi-bin/adroll/ > /cgi-bin/counter* > /cgi-bin/nph-adlick > /event.ng/ > /gfx/spon/ > /gifs/netfinity.gif > /gifs/tripod2.gif > /graphics/pcast.gif > /graphicsadvert > /image/ads/ > /images/ABCnewsa.gif > /images/ads/ > /images/deckad1.gif > /images/getpoint1.gif > /images/nyyahoo.gif > /images/partners/ > /images/promo/ > /img/ads/ > /img/art4/home/promo/ > /inserts/images/ > /ml/gfx/spon/ > /pictures/sponsors/ > /promobar > /promos/ > /promotions/ > /RealMedia/ads/ > /shared/images/marketing/ > /sponsor.*/.*.gif > 209.25.19.47/ > :23 > ad.*.com/ > adserve.*.com/ > ad.*.net/ > adcount.hollywood.com/ > ads*.focalink.com/ > ads.*.com/ > bannersolutions.com/ > bannerswap.com/ > counter.digits.com/ > digits.com/ > doubleclick.com/ > flycast.com/ > freestats.com/ > globaltrack.com/ > globaltrack.net/ > gp.dejanews.com/ > guide.infoseek.com/ > infoseek.com/images/channel/ > hitbox.com/ > hollynxxx.com/ > icount.com/ > jcount.com/ > linkexchange.com/ > register-it.com > riddler.com/ > sexhound.com/ > sexlist.com/ > stattrax.com/ > style.rahul.net/altavista/adverts/ > # Geocities > www.geocities.com/cgi-bin/homestead/GeoGuideLite_image* > geocities.com/MemberBanners > xpagecount.com/ > xxxcounter.com/ > ********************************************************************** > **** > More stuff that I need to sort out: > > adsmart.net > doubleclick.net > SmartBanner > imageserv.imgis.com/images > images.yahoo.com/adv > /ad_client.cgi > > # ms sucks ! > /*.*/(ms)?backoff(ice)?.*.(gif|jpe?g) > /*.*/(msie|sqlbans|powrbybo|activex|backoffice|explorer|netnow|getpoin > t|ntbutton|hmlink).*.(gif|jpe?g) > /*.*/activex.*(gif|jpe?g) > /*.*/explorer?.(gif|jpe?g) > /*.*/freeie.(gif|jpe?g) > /*.*/ie_?(buttonlogo|static?|anim.*)?.(gif|jpe?g) > /*.*/ie_sm.(gif|jpe?g) > /*.*/msie(30)?.(gif|jpe?g) > /*.*/msnlogo.(gif|jpe?g) > /*.*/office97_ad1.(gif|jpe?g) > /*.*/pbbobansm.(gif|jpe?g) > /*.*/powrbybo.(gif|jpe?g) > /*.*/sqlbans.(gif|jpe?g) > > # generally useless information and promo stuff (commented out) > #/*.*/(counter|getpcbutton|BuiltByNOF|netscape|hotmail|vcr(rated)?|rsa > ci(rated)?|freeloader|cache_now(_anim)?|apache_pb|now_(anim_)?button|i > e_?(buttonlogo|static?|.*ani.*)?).(gif|jpe?g) > > #------------------------ > # > # specific servers > # > #------------------------ > 193.158.37.3/cgi-bin/impact > 193.210.156.114 > 194.231.79.38 > 199.78.52.10 > 204.253.46.71:1977 > 204.94.67.40/wc/ > 205.216.163.62 > 205.217.103.58:1977 > 205.217.103.58:1977 > 206.50.219.33 > 207.159.135.72 > 207.82.250.9 > 209.1.135.144:1971 > 209.1.135.142:1971 > ad-up.com > ads?.*\.(com|net) > ad.adsmart.net > ad.doubleclick.net > ad.infoseek.com > ad.linkexchange.com > ad.preferences.com > adbot.com > adbot.theonion.com > adcount.hollywood.com > adforce.imgis.com > adlink.deh.de > adone.com > ads*.focalink.com > ads*.zdnet.com > ads.csi.emcweb.com > ads.imagine-inc.com > ads.imdb.com > ads.infospace.com > ads.lycos.com > ads.narrowline.com > ads.realmedia.com > ads.softbank.net/bin/wadredir > ads.usatoday.com > ads.washingtonpost.com > ads.web.aol.com > ads.web21.com > adservant.mediapoint.de > banners.internetextra.com > bannerswap.com > bs.gsanet.com/gsa_bs/ > ciec.org/images/countdown.gif > click1.wisewire.com > click2.wisewire.com > clickii.imagine-inc.com:1964 > commonwealth.riddler.com > customad.cnn.com > cyberfirst1.web.cerf.net/image.ng/ > digits.com/wc/ > dino.mainz.ibm.de > flycast.com/ > globaltrack.com > globaltrak.net > gm.preferences.com/image.ng > gtp.dejanews.com/gtplacer > hardware.pagecount.com/ > hitbox.com/wc/ > hyperbanner.net > icount.com/.*.count > images.yahoo.com/promotions/ > imageserv.imgis.com > impartner.de/cgi-bin > linktrader.com/cgi-bin/ > logiclink.nl/cgi-bin/ > movielink.com/media/imagelinks/MF.(ad|sponsor) > nrsite.com > nt1.imagine-inc.com > nt2.imagine-inc.com > nytsyn.com/gifs > pagecount.com/aa-cgi-bin > pagecount.com/aa-cgi-bin > ph-ad*.focalink.com > promo.ads.softbank.net > resource-marketing.com/tb/ > smartclicks.com/.*/smartimg > smh.com.au/adproof/ > sysdoc.pair.com/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/sysdoc/sponsor.gif > victory.cnn.com/image.ng/spacedesc > videoserver.kpix.com > w20.hitbox.com > www..bigyellow.com/......mat.* > www.ads.warnerbros.com > www.fxweb.holowww.com/.*.cgi > www.iadventure.com/adserver/ > www.infoworld.com/pageone/gif > www.isys.net/customer/images > www.javaworld.com/javaworld/jw-ad > www.link4link.com/cgi-bin > www.mediashower.com/ad-bin/ > www.nedstat.nl/cgi-bin/ > www.nj.com/adverts > www.nrsite.com > www.pagecount.com/aa-cgi-bin > www.search.com/Banners > www.smartclicks.com:81 > www.swwwap.com/cgi-bin/ > www.valueclick.com/cgi-bin/ > www.websitepromote.com/partner/img/ > www.wishing.com/webaudit > yahoo.com/CategoryID=0 > > #------------------------ > # > # some images on servers that I frequently visit > # > #------------------------ > > # some images on cnn's website just suck! > /*.*/book.search.gif > /*.*/cnnpostopinionhome..gif > /*.*/custom_feature.gif > /*.*/explore.anim.*gif > /*.*/infoseek.gif > /*.*/pathnet.warner.gif > /BarnesandNoble/images/bn.recommend.box.* > /digitaljam/images/digital_ban.gif > /hotstories/companies/images/companies_banner.gif > /markets/images/markets_banner.gif > /ows-img/bnoble.gif > /ows-img/nb_Infoseek.gif > cnnfn.com/images/left_banner.gif > > # die sueddeutsche > /*.*/images/artszonnet.jpg > > # yahoo.de > /promotions/bankgiro/ > > # > /gif/buttons/banner_.* > /gif/buttons/cd_shop_.* > /gif/cd_shop/cd_shop_ani_.* > > #altavista > /av/gifs/av_map.gif > /av/gifs/av_logo.gif > > /*.*/banner_ads/ > /*.*/banners?/ > /*.*/images/addver.gif > /*.*/place-ads > /*.*/promobar.* > /*.*/publicite/ > /*.*/reklame/ > /*.*/sponsor.gif > /*.*/sponsors?[0-9]?/ > /*.*/werb\..* > /ad_images/ > /bin/nph-oma.count/ct/default.shtml > /bin/nph-oma.count/ix/default.html > /cgi-bin/nph-load > /netscapeworld/nw-ad/ > /worldnet/ad.cgi > /rotads/ > /rotateads/ > /rotations/ > /promotions/houseads/ > ********************************************************************** > **** > > --- > > Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM > Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, > 14.4Kbps From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)covici@ccs.covici.com Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 13:05:03 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: Bush Gang Suspected In Assault On PresidencyBush Gang Suspected In Assault On Presidency In-Reply-To: <34cae887.ccs@ccs.covici.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Bush gang suspected in new assault on Presidency by Edward Spannaus and Jeffrey Steinberg In the midst of the worst global financial crisis in modern history, the United States Presidency has come under renewed, vicious attack from a combination of British and nominally ``American'' Bush-League circles. This latest attack, which one White House official long ago appropriately dubbed ``bimbo eruptions,'' centered around a Bush ``mole'' who was, unfortunately, allowed to operate inside the Clinton administration, and who now enjoys high-level security clearances in her post at the Pentagon. Linda Tripp, the central player in the renewed assault against President Clinton--staged around a purported sex scandal involving a young White House intern, Monica Lewinsky--was a Bush administration employee from 1990, until Bush left office in January 1993. At the urging of senior Bush administration officials, including Transportation Secretary Sam Skinner, Tripp was retained by the Clinton-Gore transition team in a clerical position, and later assigned to work at the Office of the White House General Counsel, under Bernard Nussbaum and his deputy, Vincent Foster. All the while, she was operating as part of a treasonous Bush-League ``fifth column'' within the Executive branch. While the ``Get Clinton'' media have attempted to portray Tripp as ``apolitical,'' she was, in fact, an ally, from the Bush administration period on, of then-FBI agent Gary Aldrich, who, in 1996, wrote a libellous book against President Clinton, {Unlimited Access: An FBI Agent Inside the Clinton White House,} which also revolved around bogus claims of White House sexual misconduct (see {EIR,} July 26, 1996, p.|72.) Aldrich was another Bush-League mole inside the Clinton White House. His embarrassingly fantasy-ridden book has been trumpetted by the London-based Hollinger Corporation, the leading British Crown media cartel; by its subsidiary, {American Spectator} magazine; and by ``Get Clinton'' money-bags Richard Mellon Scaife. Tripp emerged in 1995 as an asset of Whitewater Independent Counsel Kenneth Starr, testifying before the Whitewater grand jury and later before a Congressional hearing on the death of Vincent Foster. When Lloyd Cutler replaced Nussbaum as White House General Counsel, Tripp, who by then had been widely identified as an unabashed political enemy of President Clinton, was reassigned to the Pentagon, where she eventually got an $80,000-a-year job, which also involved her getting top-level security clearances. Tripp claimed, to anyone who would listen, that she had been transferred from the White House because she ``knew too much about Whitewater,'' a patent lie. Commenting on the role of Tripp as the linchpin in the latest Clintongate assault, Lyndon LaRouche called on Jan. 22 for Tripp's security clearances to be immediately revoked, pending the outcome of a thorough probe of her role in the sordid affair. ``She obviously needs her security clearances immediately pulled, given her role in what has all the earmarks of an illegal attack against the President, ostensibly on behalf of partisan Republican forces. I would certainly hope that there is no one in the Pentagon who would countenance such an obvious assault against a vital American institution, the Presidency. I would expect such treachery from the editorial page writers at the {Wall Street Journal,} but not from our military.'' - An earlier `eruption' - In the summer of 1997, Tripp surfaced again as part of an effort to hit President Clinton with a ``Profumo''-style sex scandal, telling {Newsweek} that the President had sexually harassed a White House aide, Kathleen Willey. Willey denied, under oath, that Tripp's allegations were true. This prompted President Clinton's attorney, Robert Bennett, belatedly, in August 1997, to denounce Tripp as a liar. While working at the Pentagon, in late 1996, Tripp had already begun to cultivate a close relationship with a former White House junior staff aide, 22-year-old Monica Lewinsky, who had been recently transferred to the Defense Department. It is unclear how the two women came to meet, but in short order, Tripp began to exert a significant amount of control over the younger woman. Tripp should be forced, under oath, to detail the circumstance under which she met and befriended Lewinsky. Tripp soon betrayed Lewinsky's confidence by surreptitiously--and, probably, illegally--taping telephone conversations with Lewinsky. By December 1997, Tripp and Lewinsky had {both,} mysteriously, been subpoenaed to give depositions to attorneys for Paula Jones, in her civil lawsuit against the President--a lawsuit instigated by British intelligence operator and former London {Sunday Telegraph} Washington correspondent Ambrose Evans-Pritchard. How Jones's attorneys came to know of the existence of Tripp and Lewinsky is one question that may hold a key to Tripp's role in the present attack against the President. It should be recalled that, prior to being named the independent counsel in Whitewater, Kenneth Starr had been paid by Richard Mellon Scaife, through the Landmark Legal Foundation, to prepare an {amicus curiae} brief in support of Paula Jones. Tripp claims that, on Jan. 12, 1998, she took 20 hours of tape-recorded conversations with Lewinsky to Whitewater Special Prosecutor Starr. The next day, Starr arranged for Tripp to secretly tape her meeting with Lewinsky at the Ritz Carlton Hotel near the Pentagon in Arlington, Virginia. At the time that Starr arranged for the FBI to secretly tape the Tripp-Lewinsky meeting, {he had absolutely no jurisdiction to probe President Clinton's relationship to the former White House aide.} Indeed, it is critical that a full-scale probe be conducted, to determine whether Tripp, who was in league with Starr from 1995, was taping her conversations with Lewinsky on her own, or, covertly, on behalf of Starr. At minimum, Starr vastly overstepped his jurisdiction; far more likely, he himself broke the law--along with Tripp--in a flagrant attempt to entrap and destroy President Clinton. - No U.S. precedent - In the 200-year history of the American Presidency, there have been occasional sexual scandals involving top government officials; however, never has such a personal scandal brought down the chief executive. There is only one country in the world where heads of government are brought to their knees through such tabloid scandal-mongering: Great Britain. In 1963, Harold Macmillan's government was brought down by a sex scandal involving Defense Minister John Profumo. It is, therefore, not surprising that a review of the various Clintongate scandals, from the 1993 so-called ``Troopergate'' affair to the present attack, reveals that British intelligence stringer and former {Sunday Telegraph} Washington correspondent Ambrose Evans-Pritchard has been the chief instigator. As early as May 8, 1994, in a {Sunday Telegraph} column, Evans-Pritchard boasted that he had been instrumental in getting Paula Jones to file her civil suit against the President. Evans-Pritchard has elsewhere boasted that his assignment, on behalf of the British Crown's Hollinger Corporation, has been nothing less than the total destruction of the Clinton Presidency. Writing in the Jan. 22 {Daily Telegraph,} Evans-Pritchard loudly bragged of his manipulation of Paula Jones: ``My impression after befriending her four years ago, before she took the momentous step of suing the President, is that her motive was sheer rage.'' ``Paula Jones has now achieved her object of inflicting massive damage on Bill Clinton, with shortening odds that she may ultimately destroy his Presidency,'' he continued. Evans-Pritchard accuses the U.S. news media of covering up the Clinton sex scandals, so that only the {American Spectator} or the British press will print the stories. ``What Paula Jones has done is to use the immense power of legal discovery to force the scandal to the surface. She has finally done the job that the American media failed to do so miserably.'' This was precisely the strategy that Evans-Pritchard had laid out in 1994, when he acknowledged on May 8, 1994, that he had had ``a dozen conversations with Mrs. Jones over the past two months.'' He furthermore admitted that ``I happened to be present at a strategy meeting last month on a boat on the Arkansas River,'' at which Jones's attorney ``was weighing the pros and cons of legal action.'' It doesn't ``matter all that much whether Mrs. Jones ultimately wins or loses her case,'' he wrote on May 15, 1994. ``The ticking time bomb in the lawsuit lies elsewhere, in the testimony of other witnesses.'' ``Put plainly,'' Evans-Pritchard blurted, ``the political purpose of the Jones lawsuit is to reconstruct the inner history of the Arkansas Governor's Mansion, using the legal power of discovery. In effect, the two lawyers and their staff could soon be doing the job that the American media failed to do during the election campaign and have largely failed to do since.'' Evans-Pritchard's motive, in contrast to Jones's ``sheer rage,'' is a deep, abiding hatred of the United States, and particularly, the institution of its Presidency. Anyone who joins Evans-Pritchard in this unfolding assault upon the Presidency, is joining the ranks of traitor Aaron Burr. A thorough probe of the current insurrection, beginning with a spotlight on Linda Tripp, is more than appropriate. >From Executive Intelligence Review V25, #5. -- John Covici covici@ccs.covici.com From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "William H. Geiger III" Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 00:26:42 +0800 To: "Roger J Jones" Subject: Re: Tim May as censor?????????? In-Reply-To: <199801281519.JAA04493@pc1824.ibpinc.com> Message-ID: <199801281640.LAA25623@users.invweb.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain In <199801281519.JAA04493@pc1824.ibpinc.com>, on 01/28/98 at 09:22 AM, "Roger J Jones" said: >>Jeez, this is not "ChemPunks." >>Calculating exothermic and endothermic yields (measured in "kcal/mole") for >>various chemistry reactions was a central part of my sophomore chemistry >>class in high school 30 years ago. >>I suggest the question askers consult any of the most basic chemistry >>textbooks. >>--Tim May >Tim, >Can this be? Censorship from the man on the mountain? So unlike you...... Please, There is nothing wrong requesting a poster put forth the bare minimum of research before wasting the time of list members with trivial questions. -- --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html --------------------------------------------------------------- Tag-O-Matic: How do you make Windows faster? Throw it harder! From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "William H. Geiger III" Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 00:25:16 +0800 To: Tim May Subject: Re: Exporting Code the Easy Way In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801281636.LAA25477@users.invweb.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain In , on 01/28/98 at 01:46 AM, Tim May said: >At 9:44 PM -0800 1/27/98, Alan Olsen wrote: >>At 07:26 PM 1/26/98 -0800, Tom Weinstein wrote: >> >>>Don't hold your breath. We're still bound by US export regulations, so >>>we won't be able to export crypto-relevant source code. We'll release what >>>we can, but you probably won't be satisfied. >>> >>>Of course, there's always the option for some enterprising individuals >>>outside the US to replace the missing pieces. >> >>Or you could just publish the source code in a big book... ]:> >Or even easier option: >Dispense with the actual scanning and OCRing and simply _say_ the code >was OCRed. Or, for that matter, don't even bother to say. U.S. Customs >and the ITARs/EARs have no provisions for asking international users if >the version they are using was compiled from source code printed in >books! >(This was my recommended approach for the PGP job...use the code off the >CD-ROM, carried out in someone's luggage or mailed or sent over the Net, >and then _say_ the OCRing was done....it's not as if U.S. Customs has any >authority to question someone in Amsterdam or Denmark and demand proof >that they really spent those hundreds of hours laboriously scanning and >OCRing and proofreading....) >Why do things the hard way? >Seriously, when the code people use internationally is used, just who the >hell cares whether it was ever scanned from a book or not? That only >affects the issue of _export_, which is mooted anyway by the utter >triviality of exporting software on CD-ROMs, DATs, through the mail, via >FedEx and Airborne, through remailers, and on and on and on. Nobodu using >"PGP International Version" has to worry one whit, no pun intended, about >whether the code came from an original PGP distribution, or source code >scanned and OCRed, so long as it checks out properly. I think that this was a legal decision by PGP, Inc. not out of concern by the people doing the scanning overseas. I believe that they were trying to sheild themselves from another lenghty court battle with the Feds but still be able to make the source code available. Unfortunatly PGP is nolonger the product of crypto-anarchists but is now owned by the "suits" who tend to tread lightly in such matters (shareholders realy don't care about crypto-anarchy principles unless there is financial gain in doing so). -- --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html --------------------------------------------------------------- Tag-O-Matic: "640K ought to be enough for anybody." - Bill Gates, 1981 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jack Oswald Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 03:21:04 +0800 To: "'John Young'" Subject: RE: Announcement: RPK InvisiMail released on 12 Jan, 1998 Message-ID: <01BD2BDC.19144440@joswald@rpkusa.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain It seems that there is some confusion WRT to the origin of this product. The encryption technology was developed in New Zealand. The application itself was developed on the Isle of Man (British Isles). As a result, the US gov't has had nothing to do with the product and therefore none of the "concerns" represented in the previous message have any merit. What was meant by use of "honey" is that if you pick a fight with a government official, they will be happy to fight back. If you complement them on their farsighted visionary non-meddling approach you get a very different response. Our experience has been that we get a reasonable response from the NZ government that does not restrict the security that our products offer nor in the way that we choose to do business. Jack -----Original Message----- From: John Young [SMTP:jya@pipeline.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 1998 4:02 PM To: cypherpunks@toad.com Cc: Jack Oswald Subject: RE: Announcement: RPK InvisiMail released on 12 Jan, 1998 On "using honey not vinegar" rationale of RPK InvisiMail for obtaining crypto export licenses: Applied Cryptography, Bruce Schneier, 2nd Edition, pp. 215-16 Algorithms for Export Algorithms for export out of the United States must be approved by the U.S. government (actually, by the NSA--see Section 25.1) It is widely believed that these export-approved algorithms can be broken by the NSA. Although no one has admitted this on the record, these are some of the things the NSA is rumored to privately suggest to companies wishing to export their cryptographic products: - Leak a key bit once in a while, embedded in the ciphertext. - "Dumb down" the effective key to something in the 30-bit range. For example, while the algorithm might accept a 100-bit key, most of those keys might be equivalent. - Use a fixed IV, or encrypt a fixed header at the beginning of each encrypted message. This facilitates a known-plaintext attack. - Generate a few random bytes, encrypt them with the key, and then put both the plaintext and the ciphertext of those random bytes at the beginning of the encrypted message. This also facilitates a known-plaintext attack. NSA gets a copy of the source code, but the algorithm's details remain secret from everyone else. Certainly no one advertises any of these deliberate weaknesses, but beware if you buy a U.S. encryption product that has been approved for export. ----- Bruce added the last "beware" phrase to the 2nd edition. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 02:33:00 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Quantum teleportation and communication In-Reply-To: <199801280442.WAA04344@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Steve asked in another message about where one learns about some of this stuff. As always, "Scientific American" is a good place to look for articles. They've had many articles on Bell's Theorem, nonlocality, the EPR paradox/nonparadox, the Aharanov-Bohm results, and quantum teleportation. A SciAm article will explain, with pictures, in ways we can't here. (Plus the articles are carefully written, by experts--we waste too much time here getting lost in misunderstandings about the meanings of terms of art.) "Science News" is sometimes good, too. And "New Scientist" and "Nature." Any library should have plenty of articles. There are also dozens of popular books on these subjects, ranging from "In Search of Schrodinger's Cat" to "Where Does the Weirdness Go?" And the Web of course has vast resources. Just taking a glance, I see 2000 hits on "quantum teleportation" with HotBot. And 200 hits on "faster than light communication," for example. Other, more refined searches are trivial to do. Some of these articles are reviews, some are primers, some are pointers to more info. Anyway, back to "quantum weirdness," which, so far, has not looked very weird. (To me, at least. But, like most physicists, it seemed weird to me at first but then became "just the way things are" after a few months.) At 9:20 PM -0800 1/27/98, Steve Schear wrote: >I don't understand why a command/synch channel is required. Why aren't the >coding techniques commonly used in telecom and disk data encoding adequate >to both synchonize and convey data? Imagine a pair of photons sent in opposite directions. With different polarizations, but "tangled." Observer A measures a polarization of "1." He then knows that Observer B will measure "0." All that is revealed is a _correlation_, a kind of structure built into the Universe. Interesting, but not so weird as it seems. (And this is not any kind of "action at one site instantaneously changing the state far away." No more so than sending two envelopes out, one with a "1" inside and the other with a "0" inside changes things instantaneously.....) No signal sending is possible because neither observer can "change" the polarization of a photon. They can certainly pick a sequence of photons to measure, and thus get various polarization values. But it can't send a "message" to the other site because the series of photons picked forms the key, and that key must itself be sent. Similarities to one time pads, obviously. More info in the sources named. Avoid the pop science treatments by Nick Herbert, unless other, more mainstream sources are also consulted at the same time. And definitely avoid the "psi" nonsense of Jack Sarfatti. Gribbin's books are pretty good. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Steve Schear Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 03:11:33 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: Planetary rovers, SETI and other musings, was Re: update.356(fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801281428.IAA06743@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 8:28 AM -0600 1/28/98, Jim Choate wrote: >Forwarded message: > >> Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 23:44:50 -0800 >> From: Steve Schear >> Subject: Re: Planetary rovers, SETI and other musings, was Re: update.356 >> (fwd) > >> I guess I'm over my head in such matters. From my, admitedly, shallow >> understanding of wave function collapse, etc., I was under the apparent >> misimpression that once collapsed (e.g., by Alice entangling a 'modulation' >> photon M (of a known polarization) with one member (photon A) of an >> entangled pair, one of which was sent to Alice and the other (photon B) >> which was sent to Bob, photon B's polarization state was determined and >> could not subsequently be altered by Bob's measurement with his receiver. >> Could you recommend a good article which explain this paradox to a >> non-quantum mechanic? > >The state is determined *at the time of collapse*. Once the collapse occurs >the synchronization is no longer present and subsequent events can indeed >alter the polarization of one particle without altering the other. Simply >bouncing that photon via refraction off a surface can alter the >polarization. If that is the case, I still don't understand why and out-of-band signal is required. If the sender collapses the wave function shortly before the signal reaches the intended receiver its unlikely to have changed polarization again. --Steve From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: David Honig Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 03:21:33 +0800 To: Ray Arachelian Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980128110542.007f5a70@206.40.207.40> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 01:03 PM 1/28/98 -0500, Ray Arachelian wrote: >2)From: "Brandon Robinson" >Subject: Re: Monitoring MDT's > >>14)From: "self destruct" < >>Subject: Monitoring MDT's >>hi all,....i am wondering if there is a way to monitor police MDT's >>(mobile display terminals) >>i have the frq. that they use but i dont know how to hook up a scanner to >>p/c. any thoughts would be appreciated thank you > >Since no one else seemed to respond to this, I guess I will...first off >M.D.T. stands for (Mobile Data Terminals), I got this posting off some >group I can't really remeber where from, but it is informative, and was >the >subject of a Feb, '97 "911Dispatcher Magazine" story. It should answer all >of your questions, I also have a list of some places where you can buy the >unit pre-made, or a kit to make your own. I have left the Source code out >on purpose as it is rather lengthy, if you want it I can send it to you. > >-BBR >----------------------- Begin quoted article ---------------------- > >>From lord@heaven.com Mon Dec 23 23:11:43 EST 1996 >Article: 44420 of alt.radio.scanner >Subject: MDT stuff > >Greetings one and all, > >Have you ever lusted to decode Mobile Data Terminal (MDT) >tranmissions? Have you ever wanted to see the same NCIC and motor >vehicle information that law enforcement officers see? Have you ever >wanted to see what officers send to each other over "private" channels? >And all this with an interface you can build with only a few dollars >worth of parts from your local radio shack? > >If so this posting might be your rendevous with destiny. The tail >end of this posting includes the source code of a program that decodes >and displays MDT messages. It stores roughly 30k of messages in a buffer >and then writes the whole buffer to a file called "data.dat" before >terminating. The program may be interrupted at any time by pressing any >key (don't use control-c) at which point it writes the partially filled >buffer to "data.dat". This program only works for systems built by >Motorola using the MDC4800 tranmission protocol. This accounts for a >large fraction of public service MDT systems as well other private >systems. > >The existence of this program is ample evidence that Motorola has >misrepresented its MDT systems when it marketed them as a secure means >of communcications. The interested reader will soon discover that these >systems do not use any form of encryption. Security concerns instead >have been dealt with by using a code. "And what might this code be >called?" asks the reader. The code turns out to be plain ASCII. What >follows is a brief description of how the program and the MDC4800 >protocol work. If you don't understand something go to your local >library and check out a telecommunications theory book. > >1. The raw transmission rate is 4800 baud. The program's interrupt >service routine simply keeps track of the time between transitions. If >you're receiving a perfect signal this will be some multiple of 1/4800 >seconds which would then give you how many bits were high or low. Since >this is not the best of all possible worlds the program instead does the >following: transitions are used to synchronize a bit clock. One only >samples whenever this clock is in the middle of the bit to produce the >raw data stream. This greatly reduces jitter effects. > >2. Whenever a tranmitter keys up the MDC4800 protocol calls for bit >synchronization (a sequence of 1010101010101010....). In the program >this will result in receive bit clock synchronization. There is no need >to specifically look for the bit sync. > >3. Look for frame synchronization in raw bit stream so that data >frames can be broken apart. Frame synchronization consists of a 40 bit >sequence : 0000011100001001001010100100010001101111. If this sequence is >detected (or 35 out of 40 bits match up in the program) the system is >idling and the next 112 bit data block is ignored by the program. If the >inverted frame sync is detected one immediately knows that 112 bit data >blocks will follow. > >4. Receive the 112 bit data block and undo the bit interleave. This >means that one must reorder the bits in the following sequence : {0,16, >32,48,64,80,96,1,17,33,49,65,81,97,2,18,34,...} if the orignal sequence >were received as {0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,...}. > >5. Check the convolutional error correcting code and count the >number of errors. The error correcting code is rate 1/2 which means we >will be left with 56 data bytes. The encoder is constructed so that the >output consists of the original data bits interspersed with error >correcting code. The generating polynomial used is : >1 + X^-1 + X^-5 + X^-6 >Whenever an error is detected a counter is incremented. An attempt is >made to correct some errors by finding the syndrome and looking for the >bogus bit. > >6. Keep receiving 112 bit data blocks until either a new frame sync >is found or two consecutive data blocks have an unacceptably large >number of errors. > >7. Each data block consists of six data bytes; the last 8 bits are >status bits that are simply ignored. The program shows the data in two >columns - hexadecimal and ASCII. This data is kept in a buffer and is >written to the file "data.dat" when the program terminates. > >8. What the program doesn't do: As a further check on the data >there can be CRC checks. This varies from protocol to protocol so this >program does not implement the CRC checks. Nonetheless, it is a >relatively trivial matter to find the generating polynomial. The >addresses, block counts, and message ID numbers are also quite easy to >deduce. > >As you can see, there is no encryption. The bit interleave and the error >correcting coding are there solely to insure the integrity of the ASCII >data. Since any moron could have figured this stuff out from scratch one >could argue that MDTs do not use "...modulation parameters intentionally >witheld from the public". Therefore the Electronic Communications >Privacy Act may not prohibit receiving MDT tranmissions. However, >consult your attorney to make sure. > >The total disregard for security will no doubt annoy countless >Motorola customers who were assured that their MDT systems were secure. >Since Federal law states that NCIC information must be encrypted your >local law enforcement agency might be forced to spend millions of >dollars to upgrade to a secure MDT system - much to the delight of >Motorola and its stockholders. Cynics might conclude that the release of >a program like this is timed to coincide with the market saturation of >existing MDT systems. > >Also, this program is completely free and it had better stay that >way. What's to prevent you from adapting this into a kit and selling it >>from classified ads in the back of Nuts and Volts? Nothing. But take a >look at Motorola's patents sometime. You'll notice that this program >does things that are covered by a shitload of patents. So any attempt to >take financial advantage of this situtation will result in utter misery. > >Please keep the following in mind: this program only works with the >first serial port (COM1). If your mouse or modem is there too bad. If >you don't like this rewrite the program. > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >What equipment do I need? > >RADIO SCANNER: > >A scanner that can receive 850-869 MHz. For those of you who don't >know, this is the band where most business and public service trunked >radio systems can be found along with the mobile data terminal >transmissions. Chances are excellent that if your local authorities have >a motorola trunked radio system and mobile data terminals that this is >the frequency band in use. Very rarely will one find mobile data >terminals in other frequency bands. > >Now for the fun part - your scanner should probably be modified to >allow you to tap off directly from the discriminator output. If you wait >until the signal has gone through the radio's internal audio filtering >the waveform will likely be too heavily distorted to be decoded. This is >exactly the same problem that our friends who like to decode pager >transmissions run into - some of them have claimed they can only decode >512 baud pager messages using the earphone output of their scanner. >These mobile data terminal messages are 4800 baud so I don't think you >have a snowball's chance in hell without using the discriminator output. >If you don't know where to begin modifying your scanner you might want >to ask those who monitor pagers how to get the discriminator output for >your particular radio. > >COMPUTER/SCANNER INTERFACE > >Those of you who have already built your interface for decoding >pager messages should be able to use that interface without any further >ado. For those starting from scratch - you might want to check out >packages intended for pager decoding such as PD203 and the interfaces >they describe. The following excerpt gives an example of a decoder that >should work just fine (lifted out of the PD203 POCSAG pager decoder >shareware documentation): > >> >> 0.1 uF |\ +12v >> ---||-----------------------|- \| >> AF IN | |741 \ >> ---- | | /--------------------- Data Out >> | \ ------|+ /| | CTS (pin 5/8) >> | / 100K | |/-12v | or DSR (pin 6/6) >> | \ | | >> GND / ----/\/\/\---- GND ------ GND (pin 7/5) >> | | 100K >> | \ N.B. Pin Numbers for com port are >> GND / given as x/y, where x is for a 25 >> \ 10K way, y for a 9 way. >> / >> | >> GND >> >> The above circuit is a Schmitt Trigger, having thresholds of about +/- >1v. >> If such a large threshold is not required, eg for a discriminator >output, >> then the level of positive feedback may be reduced by either reducing >the >> value of the 10K resistor or by increasing the value of the 100K >feedback >> resistor. >> >> The +/- 12v for the op-amp can be derived from unused signals on the COM >> port (gives more like +/- 10v but works fine !):- >> >> >> TxD (2/3) --------------|<-------------------------------------- -12v >> | | >> RTS (4/7) --------------|<-------- GND - - >> | | _ + 10uF >> --------->|------- - - | >> Diodes 1N4148 | - + 10uF GND >> | | >> DTR (20/4) ------------->|-------------------------------------- +12v >> > >If I were building this circuit I would strongly suggest tying the >non-inverting (+) input of the op-amp to ground since you are working >directly with the discriminator output and don't need a Schmitt trigger. >All these parts or equivalents are easily available (even at your local >Radio Shack which stocks the finest collection of components that have >failed the manufacturer's quality control checks and supported by a >sales staff that's always got the wrong answers to your questions). > >Also: DO NOT use the RI (ring indicator) as an input to the computer. >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >How do I check things? > >As a first step, I would get a package such as PD203 and use it to >decode a few pages. If you can get that working you know that that your >interface circuit is functioning correctly. > >If you are in a reasonably sized town you might be part of the >ardis network. The ardis network is a nationwide commercial mobile data >terminal network where one can send/receive E-mail messages from one's >portable computer. It has been exclusively assigned the frequency of >855.8375 MHz. Therefore, if you can hear digital bursts on this >frequency you are basically guarranteed that these are MDC4800 type >messages. You should be able to get stuff popping up on your screen >although a lot of the messages will not be plain english. > >If your interface works but you can't seem to get any messages on >the screen for a channel you know is a Motorola MDT system then it might >be possible that your scanner/interface is putting out data with the >polarity reversed. To check for this run the program with a command line >arguement. When it runs you should an initial "Polarity reversed" >message and hopefully then things will work out for you. > >Other than that: if this program doesn't work pester someone else >who has got it working. Don't bother pestering the author(s) of this >posting; the shit(s) aka "she/he/it (s)" are afraid of a thousand >lawyers from Motorola descending like fleas to infest their pubic hair >and accordingly have decided to remain forever anonymous. No doubt >someone on the usenet who sees this post will know what to do with this >program and also hopefully rewrite into a more user friendly form. When >you do please don't forget to release the source code. >------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Future projects/nightmares you might want to think about: > >Certain MDT systems embed formatting information in the text in the >form of ESC plus [ plus a few more bytes. Someone might want to decode >these on the fly and format the output so it looks exactly the same way >as the user sees it. > >Make it so that this program works with com ports other than COM1. > >Make it user friendly? > >Enlarge the data buffer from the current 30k. > >Give the output data file an unique name each time the program is >run instead of "data.dat". > >How about sorting through the past traffic so that you only see >traffic to a specified user? > >The program does not cut data blocks off in the display but it >might add an extra one or two (which will display as all zeroes). >Someone might want to make all those zeroes be shown as blanks instead. > >Write some real instructions. > >Now the more ambitous stuff: > >Are you half-way competent with RF engineering? Then listen in to >the tranmissions from the mobile units back to the base station. That >way you get everyone's password and user IDs as they log on to the MDT >system. By this point you will no doubt have been able to figure out all >of the appropriate communications protocols so you should think about >getting your own transmitter up and running along with the necessary >program modifications so that you can transmit MDT messages. The >required transmitter can be very simple - for example, those masocists >who want to start from scratch might want to special order an >appropriate crystal (pulling the frequency with the computer's tranmit >signal), building a frequency multiplier chain, and adding a one watt RF >amplifier to top it all off (see the appropriate ARRL publications for >more information on radio techniques). Now you can log in and look at >the criminal records and motor vehicle information on anybody you can >think of. Find out what your neigbors are hiding. Find out who that >asshole was that cut you off downtown. Find out where your former >girl/boy friend is trying to hide from you. And on and on... >Those with simpler tastes might want to simply transmit at the base >station's frequency to any nearby MDT terminal - now you too can >dispatch your local law enforcement agencies at the touch of your >fingers!!! See your tax dollars at work tearing apart every seam of your >neighbor's house. Or create strife and dissension in your local law >enforcement agency as more and more officers come out of the closet >using their MDTs trying to pick up fellow officers. > >There are municipalities that have put GPS receivers on all of >their vehicles. Should it happen that the information is sent back over >one of these networks you could have your computer give you a real-time >map showing the position of every vehicle and how far away they are from >you. > >Extend your knowledge to other data networks. Here you will want to >look at the RAM mobile data network. It uses the MOBITEX protocol which >is really easy to find information on. Since it is an 8 kilobaud GMSK >signal there is a decent chance that you can use the interface described >here. This transmission mode demmands much more from your equipment than >MDT tranmissions. At the very least you must be much more careful to >make sure you have adequate low frequency response. Despite this it is >possible to receive and decode MOBITEX transmissions with a simple >op-amp circuit! This just goes to show you what drivelling bullshit >RAM's homepage is filled with - they explain in great detail how hackers >will never be able to intercept user's radio tranmissions (incidentally >explaining how to decode their tranmissions). The necessary program will >be the proverbial exercise left for the reader. For better performance >buy a dedicated MOBITEX modem chip and hook it up to your computer. > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >A few words about the program: > >Remember - you must have your decoder hooked up to COM1. The RTS >line will be positive and the DTR line negative but if you built the >decoder with a bridge rectifier you really don't have to worry about >their polarity. Stop the program by punching any key; don't use >control-c or control-break! > >If you must reverse polarity run the program with any command line >arguement (example: type in "mdt x" at the command line if your program >is mdt.exe). You should then see the "Polarity Reversed." message pop up >and hopefully things will then work. > >As far as compiling this - save the latter portion of this posting >(the program listing) and feed it to a C compiler. Pretty much any C >compiler from Borland should work. If you (Heaven Forbid) use a >Microsoft C compiler you might need to rename some calls such as >outport. Follow any special instructions for programs using their own >interrupt service routines. This program is not object oriented. It also >does not want anything whatsoever to do with Windows. Please don't even >think about running this program under Windows. Finally, here it is: > >Good Luck and may God be with ya > >************************************************************************** > >Subject: More real spy stuff... > >Germany smuggled agent out of Russia > >Germany's Federal Intelligence Agency smuggled one of its Russian >agents to safety while Russian President Boris Yeltsin and German >Chancellor Helmut Kohl were meeting in Moscow last Nov., the weekly >news magazine Focus said Monday. The BND had received a tip that a >long-serving Russian agent was threatened and launched a cloak and >dagger operation Nov. 29 to pull the agent out of Russia. The agent, >a 32-year-old Army captain from the Russian town Samara with the code >name "Coastal Fog," had given BND Russian military communications >secrets for years. The rescue operation took place as Kohl and >Yeltsin sat down for talks. > >Russian spies still fighting the Cold War in Britain > >Security sources say Moscow is as eager as ever to uncover >defence secrets But now it is acting more for economic than >militaristic reasons. Security sources put Russian military >espionage in Britain at the same level as it was in the 1980s. >In a radio broadcast in December, President Yeltsin, >speaking about Russia's intelligence aims, said: >"Notwithstanding positive changes after the end of the >Cold War, tough competition is still underway in the >world. Competition for new technology and geo-political >influence is increasing." > >Space Imagery Overhaul Aims at Better Data and Easier Access > >The shuttle flight is part of a massive modernization of the >multibillion-dollar U.S. intelligence collection program. The goal >is to compile a comprehensive view of the world from >overhead -- using the shuttle, satellites, spy planes and missiles >-- and to consolidate the data in a single computerized system >accessible to civilian and military officials across the >government. > >A CIA Target at Home in America >By DANIEL C. TSANG >Los Angeles Times January 18, 1998 > >Because of me, the Central Intelligence Agency has had to concede it does >spy on Americans. Just last month, the agency had to remove a denial >posted >on its Web site that it doesn't do this. For it kept a file on me >throughout the 1980s and '90s--despite a law against political spying on >Americans. >Just before Christmas, the CIA revised its Web site. The new version says >the CIA can keep files on Americans if they are suspected of espionage or >international terrorism. But I am no spy or terrorist. The CIA conceded as >much by settling my lawsuit, paying my lawyers some $46,000 and promising >to expunge my file and never spy on my political activities in the >future. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ David Honig Orbit Technology honig@otc.net Intaanetto Jigyoubu ``I'm going to the White House to get my presidential kneepads.'' ML Quote of the day http://www.newsday.com/ap/rnmpwh0s.htm From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Steve Schear Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 03:18:31 +0800 To: Bill Stewart Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >>> Speaking of which, do the current SETI programs check for signal >>> modulation using polarization. > >Speaking of SETI, their current intent is to do a distributed >computation spread across thousands of computers, similar to some of the >keycracking efforts. Details at http://www.bigscience.com ; >the Recent News section says they're currently trying to figure >out about funding. Meanwhile, there's www.mersenne.org for >factoring big prime numbers. One of the problems I have with SETI is that it assumes that a distant civilization is sending out a beacon for others to home in on, and that this beacon is a narrowband signal. What if most such civilizations aren't looking for anyone and merely going about their own affairs, including communications for their own needs? Because of path losses it takes an incredibly strong narrowband signal to traverse even relatively small cosmological distances and have any hope of detection with our technology. For example, Earth's strongest TV signals could be detected by our present technology out to about 50 light years, but no image reconstruction would be possible (insufficient S/N). The highest power transmitter-directional antenna, at Aricebo, can be heard to about 300 light years, but its only transmitted a SETI beacon once and only for a few minutes. An excellent way to mitigate path loss is trading bandwidth for data rate. GPS garners an incredible 63 dB of process gain (or about a 2,000,0000 fold improvement) in this manner. If I was trying to send a electromagnetic signal vast distances I'd use some form of spread spectrum. Individually, narrowband receivers are most insensitive to broadband 'noise' sources. However, I wonder if it might be possible to configure the SETI@home software to coordinate the narrowband channels signal analysis so as to have a better chance of detecting broadband, pseudo-noise, signaling. --Steve From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: David Honig Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 03:22:00 +0800 To: Ray Arachelian Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980128111443.007f14b0@206.40.207.40> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 01:03 PM 1/28/98 -0500, Ray Arachelian wrote: >2)From: "Brandon Robinson" >Subject: Re: Monitoring MDT's > >>14)From: "self destruct" < >>Subject: Monitoring MDT's >>hi all,....i am wondering if there is a way to monitor police MDT's >>(mobile display terminals) >>i have the frq. that they use but i dont know how to hook up a scanner to >>p/c. any thoughts would be appreciated thank you Hooking up a computer-controlled scanner, including commercial software to do so: http://www.scancat.com/catalog.html Other RF amusements: commercial EM interference generator: http://www.ar-amps.com/main.htm commercial RF tracking devices: http://www.ti.com/mc/docs/tiris/docs/size.htm magnetron amusements: http://www.glubco.com/weaponry/mag.htm ------------------------------------------------------------ David Honig Orbit Technology honig@otc.net Intaanetto Jigyoubu ``I'm going to the White House to get my presidential kneepads.'' ML Quote of the day http://www.newsday.com/ap/rnmpwh0s.htm From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 01:16:26 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: Tim May as censor?????????? In-Reply-To: <199801281519.JAA04493@pc1824.ibpinc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain "Roger J Jones" writes: > >Jeez, this is not "ChemPunks." > > >Calculating exothermic and endothermic yields (measured in "kcal/mole") for > >various chemistry reactions was a central part of my sophomore chemistry > >class in high school 30 years ago. > > >I suggest the question askers consult any of the most basic chemistry > >textbooks. > > >--Tim May > > Tim, > Can this be? Censorship from the man on the mountain? So unlike you...... In this particular case, it's not censorship to point out that the original posted might get more complete and accurate information by consulting a simple chemistry text[1] than by posing his question in a forum where most people don't give a flying fuck about simple chemistry questions. (He also wouldn't waste evebody's fucking time, but he clearly gives even less of a fling fuck about other people's time than about his own fucking time.) [1] One really Good Thing Jim Bell could do while on probation is to write a good simple chemistry book. "Stink Bombs for Dummies" "How to make mustard gas in your own kitchen" --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 01:44:12 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Measure of information-v-time (fwd) Message-ID: <199801281739.LAA07399@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Hi, As a result of a completely non-crypto interest a discussion recently came up about how information worth/accuracy goes down with time. A proposal was made that I thought might be of some interest as a base for discussions of data havens and how to treat the relative worth of information. Forwarded message: > From: "Richard A. Flores" > Subject: Re: dates in UWPs? > Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 10:33:49 -0600 > Reply-To: traveller@mpgn.com > SD Mooney wrote: > > >Put it [the date notation] in the extended data set (as posted > >by Marc) as a single (hex) code eg M0 is 0, etc and expand > >as new milieus arise. This removes the problem of linking to > >the dating system and adding in a -tve for Milieus prior to > >M0. I mean, an Ancients set would otherwise be -200000! > > > Perhaps a simple logarithmic notation. Something like: > code > # Years since last survey > 0 0 to 3 years > 1 3 to 7 years > 2 7 to 20 years > 3 20 to 55 years > 4 55 to 148 years > 5 148 to 403 years > 6 403 to 1,097 years > 7 1,097 to 2,981 years > 8 2,981 to 8,103 years > 9 8,103 to 22,026 years > A 22,026 to 59,874 years > B 59,874 to 162,755 years > C 162,755 to 442,413 years > D 442,413 to 1,202,604 years > E 1,202,604 to 3,269,017 years > F 3,269,017 to 8,886,111 years > > This single hexadecimal # would give us a time scale beyond anyone's > estimates of possible dates on useful intelligence. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 03:53:38 +0800 To: Steve Schear Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 10:44 AM -0800 1/28/98, Steve Schear wrote: >If that is the case, I still don't understand why and out-of-band signal is >required. If the sender collapses the wave function shortly before the >signal reaches the intended receiver its unlikely to have changed >polarization again. Because the state is not known until time of measurement, at which point the other state takes on the opposite value. (Using the language of "collapsing the wave function," which is, BTW, not the only interpretation.) No information can be sent because the sender cannot pick the values to send. Instead of thinking in terms of a single bit, think in terms of a message, to make the point even clearer. Suppose the message to be sent is "Attack at dawn." Suppose the bit version of this is "1 0 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 1 1 1 0 .....etc." Now, how does the sender possibly send this? He can't, unless he also sends a signal saying "Ignore the first bit, keep the second bit, keep the third bit, ignore the fourth bit,....." In other words, a key. (And they can't even agree on a key "in advance," because the sender cannot control how the polarizations will come out.) This will have to be my last post on this subject. Please read any of the many basic treatments of these things. As with the endothermic vs. exothermic debate, there is much out there, and the Cypherpunks list is a very poor place to discuss basic quantum mechanics. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 04:26:37 +0800 To: Adam Back Subject: Re: how to ensure 128 bit netscape is used world wide (Re:Exporting Code the Easy Way) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 2:29 AM -0800 1/28/98, Adam Back wrote: >The problem is not in the export, which as Tim says happens soon >enough anyway, as anyone can verify looking at www.replay.com where a >good collection of 128 bit browsers can be obtained. > >The problem is netscape's distribution license. I tried to work out ... >This leads to the conclusion that the best thing netscape could do is: > >- not distribute a 40 bit version in electronic form at all, forcing > overseas sites to keep 128 bit versions How about this as an idea: -- encourage Web servers to reply to 40-bit Navigator or Explorer interactions with a message saying: -- "You have communicated with a very insecure 40-bit....." -- "Click here, ...., to update your browser to 128 bits..." (And the "here" site would be some outside-the-U.S. sites, of course.) This would either patch their browser, or with a plug-in. And if their browser cannot be patched, they are at least alerted and can perhaps upgrade. The idea being to make it very easy for customers who were forced to use the 40-bit version, or who got it by default or screwup, to easily update their browsers to full strength. Netscape should make this as easy as possible. (We have discussed "drop-ins" many times over the years, and the possible ITAR/EAR illegality of providing "hooks" or "drop-ins" for thoughtcrime-strength crypto, but I can't imagine anyone being successfully prosecuted on this.) --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: John Young Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 01:31:18 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: New D.C./C.A. Judge Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980128172632.00c5e838@pop.pipeline.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain One of twelve appointments announced today by the White House: DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA COURT OF APPEALS Emilio W. Cividanes, D.C. Court of Appeals Mr. Cividanes, of Washington, D.C., is of counsel to the law firm Piper & Marbury, L.L.P. Since 1991, Mr. Cividanes has taught information privacy law as an adjunct professor at Georgetown University Law Center. Before joining Piper & Marbury as an associate in 1988, he served one year as counsel to the Senate Judiciary Committee's Subcommittee on Technology & the Law, under then-Chairman Senator Patrick Leahy. From 1983 to 1986, he was a civil litigation associate with the law firm of Dickstein, Shapiro & Morin. Mr. Cividanes received his B.A. in 1979, from Haverford College and his J.D. in 1983, from the University of Pennsylvania Law School, where he was a comment editor on the Law Review. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 02:57:01 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Quantum teleportation and communication (fwd) Message-ID: <199801281850.MAA07813@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 10:29:16 -0800 > From: Tim May > Subject: Quantum teleportation and communication > Steve asked in another message about where one learns about some of this > stuff. As always, "Scientific American" is a good place to look for > articles. They've had many articles on Bell's Theorem, nonlocality, the EPR > paradox/nonparadox, the Aharanov-Bohm results, and quantum teleportation. A > SciAm article will explain, with pictures, in ways we can't here. (Plus the > articles are carefully written, by experts--we waste too much time here > getting lost in misunderstandings about the meanings of terms of art.) > "Science News" is sometimes good, too. And "New Scientist" and "Nature." > Any library should have plenty of articles. I agree with the reference to Sci-Am, with one priviso. A few years ago they put a pair of books on just these topics. They are a collection of articles published over the years and instead of digging through a variety of magazines and such these two will save a lot of time. Particles and Forces: The heart of the matter ISBN 0-7167-2070-1 $11.95 Particle Physics in the Cosmos ISBN 0-7167-1919-3 $9.95 And a much more technical book that I like a lot is: Understanding Quantum Physics: A user's manual M.A. Morrison ISBN 0-13-747908-5 ~$50 Enjoy. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 02:55:06 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Nanotechnology info on the Web (fwd) Message-ID: <199801281851.MAA07853@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: >From owner-traveller@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Wed Jan 28 12:34:55 1998 X-Authentication-Warning: phaser.Showcase.MPGN.COM: majordom set sender to owner-traveller@lists.MPGN.COM using -f From: Dedly Message-ID: Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 13:11:00 EST To: traveller@mpgn.com Subject: Nanotechnology info on the Web Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11) Sender: owner-traveller@Phaser.ShowCase.MPGN.COM Reply-To: traveller@mpgn.com If any of you are interested in what's going on in nanotechnology these days...... www.nanothinc.com They're trying to be an all-encompassing resource on nanotechnology. Although this industry is in its infancy, there's some really interesting things going on. Regarding the site itself: It helps to have a high speed modem as there are alot of graphics. They also play with a bit of shockwave so it would help to have that plug-in as well. \_/ DED From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 05:11:40 +0800 To: Jim Choate Subject: Re: EPR, Bell, and FTL Bandwidth (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801282036.OAA08857@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199801282103.NAA09138@netcom6.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain there's a lot of books out on the subject, but one suitable for popular interest is "the cosmic code" by Heinz R. Pagels, it's actually in paperback. does a nice job of giving a straightforward explanation of bell's paradox/inequality. the only relevance of QM to this list I can see is the possibility of computer storage/computation using it. there's a nice article in discover of jan 1998, p94 on Gershenfeld and Chuang's accomplishment of using atomic spin states to compute the sum of two binary digits. (qubits). at the rate science is going I'd say that any major quantum mechanical computation such as factoring a small number is probably at least a decade away. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Ray Arachelian Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 02:09:51 +0800 To: cypherpunks MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain 2)From: "Brandon Robinson" Subject: Re: Monitoring MDT's >14)From: "self destruct" < >Subject: Monitoring MDT's >hi all,....i am wondering if there is a way to monitor police MDT's >(mobile display terminals) >i have the frq. that they use but i dont know how to hook up a scanner to >p/c. any thoughts would be appreciated thank you Since no one else seemed to respond to this, I guess I will...first off M.D.T. stands for (Mobile Data Terminals), I got this posting off some group I can't really remeber where from, but it is informative, and was the subject of a Feb, '97 "911Dispatcher Magazine" story. It should answer all of your questions, I also have a list of some places where you can buy the unit pre-made, or a kit to make your own. I have left the Source code out on purpose as it is rather lengthy, if you want it I can send it to you. -BBR ----------------------- Begin quoted article ---------------------- >From lord@heaven.com Mon Dec 23 23:11:43 EST 1996 Article: 44420 of alt.radio.scanner Subject: MDT stuff Greetings one and all, Have you ever lusted to decode Mobile Data Terminal (MDT) tranmissions? Have you ever wanted to see the same NCIC and motor vehicle information that law enforcement officers see? Have you ever wanted to see what officers send to each other over "private" channels? And all this with an interface you can build with only a few dollars worth of parts from your local radio shack? If so this posting might be your rendevous with destiny. The tail end of this posting includes the source code of a program that decodes and displays MDT messages. It stores roughly 30k of messages in a buffer and then writes the whole buffer to a file called "data.dat" before terminating. The program may be interrupted at any time by pressing any key (don't use control-c) at which point it writes the partially filled buffer to "data.dat". This program only works for systems built by Motorola using the MDC4800 tranmission protocol. This accounts for a large fraction of public service MDT systems as well other private systems. The existence of this program is ample evidence that Motorola has misrepresented its MDT systems when it marketed them as a secure means of communcications. The interested reader will soon discover that these systems do not use any form of encryption. Security concerns instead have been dealt with by using a code. "And what might this code be called?" asks the reader. The code turns out to be plain ASCII. What follows is a brief description of how the program and the MDC4800 protocol work. If you don't understand something go to your local library and check out a telecommunications theory book. 1. The raw transmission rate is 4800 baud. The program's interrupt service routine simply keeps track of the time between transitions. If you're receiving a perfect signal this will be some multiple of 1/4800 seconds which would then give you how many bits were high or low. Since this is not the best of all possible worlds the program instead does the following: transitions are used to synchronize a bit clock. One only samples whenever this clock is in the middle of the bit to produce the raw data stream. This greatly reduces jitter effects. 2. Whenever a tranmitter keys up the MDC4800 protocol calls for bit synchronization (a sequence of 1010101010101010....). In the program this will result in receive bit clock synchronization. There is no need to specifically look for the bit sync. 3. Look for frame synchronization in raw bit stream so that data frames can be broken apart. Frame synchronization consists of a 40 bit sequence : 0000011100001001001010100100010001101111. If this sequence is detected (or 35 out of 40 bits match up in the program) the system is idling and the next 112 bit data block is ignored by the program. If the inverted frame sync is detected one immediately knows that 112 bit data blocks will follow. 4. Receive the 112 bit data block and undo the bit interleave. This means that one must reorder the bits in the following sequence : {0,16, 32,48,64,80,96,1,17,33,49,65,81,97,2,18,34,...} if the orignal sequence were received as {0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,...}. 5. Check the convolutional error correcting code and count the number of errors. The error correcting code is rate 1/2 which means we will be left with 56 data bytes. The encoder is constructed so that the output consists of the original data bits interspersed with error correcting code. The generating polynomial used is : 1 + X^-1 + X^-5 + X^-6 Whenever an error is detected a counter is incremented. An attempt is made to correct some errors by finding the syndrome and looking for the bogus bit. 6. Keep receiving 112 bit data blocks until either a new frame sync is found or two consecutive data blocks have an unacceptably large number of errors. 7. Each data block consists of six data bytes; the last 8 bits are status bits that are simply ignored. The program shows the data in two columns - hexadecimal and ASCII. This data is kept in a buffer and is written to the file "data.dat" when the program terminates. 8. What the program doesn't do: As a further check on the data there can be CRC checks. This varies from protocol to protocol so this program does not implement the CRC checks. Nonetheless, it is a relatively trivial matter to find the generating polynomial. The addresses, block counts, and message ID numbers are also quite easy to deduce. As you can see, there is no encryption. The bit interleave and the error correcting coding are there solely to insure the integrity of the ASCII data. Since any moron could have figured this stuff out from scratch one could argue that MDTs do not use "...modulation parameters intentionally witheld from the public". Therefore the Electronic Communications Privacy Act may not prohibit receiving MDT tranmissions. However, consult your attorney to make sure. The total disregard for security will no doubt annoy countless Motorola customers who were assured that their MDT systems were secure. Since Federal law states that NCIC information must be encrypted your local law enforcement agency might be forced to spend millions of dollars to upgrade to a secure MDT system - much to the delight of Motorola and its stockholders. Cynics might conclude that the release of a program like this is timed to coincide with the market saturation of existing MDT systems. Also, this program is completely free and it had better stay that way. What's to prevent you from adapting this into a kit and selling it >from classified ads in the back of Nuts and Volts? Nothing. But take a look at Motorola's patents sometime. You'll notice that this program does things that are covered by a shitload of patents. So any attempt to take financial advantage of this situtation will result in utter misery. Please keep the following in mind: this program only works with the first serial port (COM1). If your mouse or modem is there too bad. If you don't like this rewrite the program. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ What equipment do I need? RADIO SCANNER: A scanner that can receive 850-869 MHz. For those of you who don't know, this is the band where most business and public service trunked radio systems can be found along with the mobile data terminal transmissions. Chances are excellent that if your local authorities have a motorola trunked radio system and mobile data terminals that this is the frequency band in use. Very rarely will one find mobile data terminals in other frequency bands. Now for the fun part - your scanner should probably be modified to allow you to tap off directly from the discriminator output. If you wait until the signal has gone through the radio's internal audio filtering the waveform will likely be too heavily distorted to be decoded. This is exactly the same problem that our friends who like to decode pager transmissions run into - some of them have claimed they can only decode 512 baud pager messages using the earphone output of their scanner. These mobile data terminal messages are 4800 baud so I don't think you have a snowball's chance in hell without using the discriminator output. If you don't know where to begin modifying your scanner you might want to ask those who monitor pagers how to get the discriminator output for your particular radio. COMPUTER/SCANNER INTERFACE Those of you who have already built your interface for decoding pager messages should be able to use that interface without any further ado. For those starting from scratch - you might want to check out packages intended for pager decoding such as PD203 and the interfaces they describe. The following excerpt gives an example of a decoder that should work just fine (lifted out of the PD203 POCSAG pager decoder shareware documentation): > > 0.1 uF |\ +12v > ---||-----------------------|- \| > AF IN | |741 \ > ---- | | /--------------------- Data Out > | \ ------|+ /| | CTS (pin 5/8) > | / 100K | |/-12v | or DSR (pin 6/6) > | \ | | > GND / ----/\/\/\---- GND ------ GND (pin 7/5) > | | 100K > | \ N.B. Pin Numbers for com port are > GND / given as x/y, where x is for a 25 > \ 10K way, y for a 9 way. > / > | > GND > > The above circuit is a Schmitt Trigger, having thresholds of about +/- 1v. > If such a large threshold is not required, eg for a discriminator output, > then the level of positive feedback may be reduced by either reducing the > value of the 10K resistor or by increasing the value of the 100K feedback > resistor. > > The +/- 12v for the op-amp can be derived from unused signals on the COM > port (gives more like +/- 10v but works fine !):- > > > TxD (2/3) --------------|<-------------------------------------- -12v > | | > RTS (4/7) --------------|<-------- GND - - > | | _ + 10uF > --------->|------- - - | > Diodes 1N4148 | - + 10uF GND > | | > DTR (20/4) ------------->|-------------------------------------- +12v > If I were building this circuit I would strongly suggest tying the non-inverting (+) input of the op-amp to ground since you are working directly with the discriminator output and don't need a Schmitt trigger. All these parts or equivalents are easily available (even at your local Radio Shack which stocks the finest collection of components that have failed the manufacturer's quality control checks and supported by a sales staff that's always got the wrong answers to your questions). Also: DO NOT use the RI (ring indicator) as an input to the computer. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- How do I check things? As a first step, I would get a package such as PD203 and use it to decode a few pages. If you can get that working you know that that your interface circuit is functioning correctly. If you are in a reasonably sized town you might be part of the ardis network. The ardis network is a nationwide commercial mobile data terminal network where one can send/receive E-mail messages from one's portable computer. It has been exclusively assigned the frequency of 855.8375 MHz. Therefore, if you can hear digital bursts on this frequency you are basically guarranteed that these are MDC4800 type messages. You should be able to get stuff popping up on your screen although a lot of the messages will not be plain english. If your interface works but you can't seem to get any messages on the screen for a channel you know is a Motorola MDT system then it might be possible that your scanner/interface is putting out data with the polarity reversed. To check for this run the program with a command line arguement. When it runs you should an initial "Polarity reversed" message and hopefully then things will work out for you. Other than that: if this program doesn't work pester someone else who has got it working. Don't bother pestering the author(s) of this posting; the shit(s) aka "she/he/it (s)" are afraid of a thousand lawyers from Motorola descending like fleas to infest their pubic hair and accordingly have decided to remain forever anonymous. No doubt someone on the usenet who sees this post will know what to do with this program and also hopefully rewrite into a more user friendly form. When you do please don't forget to release the source code. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Future projects/nightmares you might want to think about: Certain MDT systems embed formatting information in the text in the form of ESC plus [ plus a few more bytes. Someone might want to decode these on the fly and format the output so it looks exactly the same way as the user sees it. Make it so that this program works with com ports other than COM1. Make it user friendly? Enlarge the data buffer from the current 30k. Give the output data file an unique name each time the program is run instead of "data.dat". How about sorting through the past traffic so that you only see traffic to a specified user? The program does not cut data blocks off in the display but it might add an extra one or two (which will display as all zeroes). Someone might want to make all those zeroes be shown as blanks instead. Write some real instructions. Now the more ambitous stuff: Are you half-way competent with RF engineering? Then listen in to the tranmissions from the mobile units back to the base station. That way you get everyone's password and user IDs as they log on to the MDT system. By this point you will no doubt have been able to figure out all of the appropriate communications protocols so you should think about getting your own transmitter up and running along with the necessary program modifications so that you can transmit MDT messages. The required transmitter can be very simple - for example, those masocists who want to start from scratch might want to special order an appropriate crystal (pulling the frequency with the computer's tranmit signal), building a frequency multiplier chain, and adding a one watt RF amplifier to top it all off (see the appropriate ARRL publications for more information on radio techniques). Now you can log in and look at the criminal records and motor vehicle information on anybody you can think of. Find out what your neigbors are hiding. Find out who that asshole was that cut you off downtown. Find out where your former girl/boy friend is trying to hide from you. And on and on... Those with simpler tastes might want to simply transmit at the base station's frequency to any nearby MDT terminal - now you too can dispatch your local law enforcement agencies at the touch of your fingers!!! See your tax dollars at work tearing apart every seam of your neighbor's house. Or create strife and dissension in your local law enforcement agency as more and more officers come out of the closet using their MDTs trying to pick up fellow officers. There are municipalities that have put GPS receivers on all of their vehicles. Should it happen that the information is sent back over one of these networks you could have your computer give you a real-time map showing the position of every vehicle and how far away they are from you. Extend your knowledge to other data networks. Here you will want to look at the RAM mobile data network. It uses the MOBITEX protocol which is really easy to find information on. Since it is an 8 kilobaud GMSK signal there is a decent chance that you can use the interface described here. This transmission mode demmands much more from your equipment than MDT tranmissions. At the very least you must be much more careful to make sure you have adequate low frequency response. Despite this it is possible to receive and decode MOBITEX transmissions with a simple op-amp circuit! This just goes to show you what drivelling bullshit RAM's homepage is filled with - they explain in great detail how hackers will never be able to intercept user's radio tranmissions (incidentally explaining how to decode their tranmissions). The necessary program will be the proverbial exercise left for the reader. For better performance buy a dedicated MOBITEX modem chip and hook it up to your computer. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- A few words about the program: Remember - you must have your decoder hooked up to COM1. The RTS line will be positive and the DTR line negative but if you built the decoder with a bridge rectifier you really don't have to worry about their polarity. Stop the program by punching any key; don't use control-c or control-break! If you must reverse polarity run the program with any command line arguement (example: type in "mdt x" at the command line if your program is mdt.exe). You should then see the "Polarity Reversed." message pop up and hopefully things will then work. As far as compiling this - save the latter portion of this posting (the program listing) and feed it to a C compiler. Pretty much any C compiler from Borland should work. If you (Heaven Forbid) use a Microsoft C compiler you might need to rename some calls such as outport. Follow any special instructions for programs using their own interrupt service routines. This program is not object oriented. It also does not want anything whatsoever to do with Windows. Please don't even think about running this program under Windows. Finally, here it is: Good Luck and may God be with ya ************************************************************************** Subject: More real spy stuff... Germany smuggled agent out of Russia Germany's Federal Intelligence Agency smuggled one of its Russian agents to safety while Russian President Boris Yeltsin and German Chancellor Helmut Kohl were meeting in Moscow last Nov., the weekly news magazine Focus said Monday. The BND had received a tip that a long-serving Russian agent was threatened and launched a cloak and dagger operation Nov. 29 to pull the agent out of Russia. The agent, a 32-year-old Army captain from the Russian town Samara with the code name "Coastal Fog," had given BND Russian military communications secrets for years. The rescue operation took place as Kohl and Yeltsin sat down for talks. Russian spies still fighting the Cold War in Britain Security sources say Moscow is as eager as ever to uncover defence secrets But now it is acting more for economic than militaristic reasons. Security sources put Russian military espionage in Britain at the same level as it was in the 1980s. In a radio broadcast in December, President Yeltsin, speaking about Russia's intelligence aims, said: "Notwithstanding positive changes after the end of the Cold War, tough competition is still underway in the world. Competition for new technology and geo-political influence is increasing." Space Imagery Overhaul Aims at Better Data and Easier Access The shuttle flight is part of a massive modernization of the multibillion-dollar U.S. intelligence collection program. The goal is to compile a comprehensive view of the world from overhead -- using the shuttle, satellites, spy planes and missiles -- and to consolidate the data in a single computerized system accessible to civilian and military officials across the government. A CIA Target at Home in America By DANIEL C. TSANG Los Angeles Times January 18, 1998 Because of me, the Central Intelligence Agency has had to concede it does spy on Americans. Just last month, the agency had to remove a denial posted on its Web site that it doesn't do this. For it kept a file on me throughout the 1980s and '90s--despite a law against political spying on Americans. Just before Christmas, the CIA revised its Web site. The new version says the CIA can keep files on Americans if they are suspected of espionage or international terrorism. But I am no spy or terrorist. The CIA conceded as much by settling my lawsuit, paying my lawyers some $46,000 and promising to expunge my file and never spy on my political activities in the future. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 03:23:39 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: Planetary rovers, SETI and other musings, was Re: update.356 (fwd) Message-ID: <199801281918.NAA08167@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 10:44:57 -0800 > From: Steve Schear > Subject: Re: Planetary rovers, SETI and other musings, was Re: update.356 > (fwd) > >The state is determined *at the time of collapse*. Once the collapse occurs > >the synchronization is no longer present and subsequent events can indeed > >alter the polarization of one particle without altering the other. Simply > >bouncing that photon via refraction off a surface can alter the > >polarization. > > If that is the case, I still don't understand why and out-of-band signal is > required. If the sender collapses the wave function shortly before the > signal reaches the intended receiver its unlikely to have changed > polarization again. What do you mean 'shortly before', the collapse is instantaneous. There ain't no time to send anything. The channle can carry one bit of data, the collapse has occured (1) or it hasn't (0). It isn't like a modem, CD, or other comm channels where you have a bandwidth and can piggy back signals for synchronization by using parts of that bandwidth. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 03:36:48 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Oregon no-knock leads to conflict [CNN] Message-ID: <199801281935.NAA08338@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > OFFICER KILLED, 2 WOUNDED IN OREGON SHOOT-OUT > > Map of Oregon January 28, 1998 > Web posted at: 2:06 p.m. EST (1906 GMT) > > PORTLAND, Oregon (AP) -- One officer was killed and two were wounded > in Portland Tuesday as they forced their way through the door of a > home that neighbors say was stocked with high-powered weapons. > > Police with black body armor and shields surrounded the house and > wounded the lone suspect. He was taken out three hours later and > hospitalized with gunshot wounds to the chest and stomach. > > The suspect, identified as 37-year-old Steven Dons, was stripped by > officers and driven away naked and bleeding on the tailgate of an > armored SWAT van. > ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Eric Cordian Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 04:25:41 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: EPR, Bell, and FTL Bandwidth Message-ID: <199801282017.OAA09290@wire.insync.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Steve Schear writes" > Why aren't the coding techniques commonly used in telecom and disk > data encoding adequate to both synchonize and convey data? Think of the classical case. I bake two fortune cookies, one with "FOO" written on the slip of paper inside, and the other reading "BAR." I then put them in a box and shake it for quite a while, until the final state has chaotic dependence upon initial conditions, and cannot be predicted. I then keep one fortune cookie, and mail the other one to Lucky Green in Tonga. Someday in the future, I open my cookie, and instantly know what Lucky will see when he opens his. In doing so, I have created a "instantaneous" correlation between two things separated by a vast distance, which were in an identical state of ambiguity prior to one of them being examined. I am sure we will agree that there was no genuine faster-then-light communication of information in this case. In quantum mechanics, pairs of observables may have the property that both of them may not be known precisely for a physical system. The Heisenberg Uncertainty principle states this for position and momentum. Similar relationships exist for energy and time, polarization or angular momentum measured with respect to different axes, and various other things. In addition, measuring a physical system for one such variable always changes its wavefunction into one for which the value of that variable is precisely specified, and the value of the other "non-commuting" variable is not. You can see this easily with three polarizing filters. If you shine a light through two of them at right angles to each other, it will be completely blocked. But it you insert third filter at a 45 degree angle, some light will get through. This is because light whose polarization is known to be vertical or horizontal is in a mixed state with respect to its polarization rotated 45 degrees. It is therefore tempting to think that perhaps the miracle of quantum mechanics could be employed in our fortune cookie experiment for the transmission of information. I generate many pairs of cookies, with random but identical polarization, keeping one of each pair for myself, and sending the other to Lucky. I then encode a stream of bits by measuring the polarization of 100 cookies, vertically if I wish to transmit a "0", and at a 45 degree angle if I choose to transmit a "1". I then know Lucky's corresponding cookie to be in an exact state with respect to one of these observables, and in a mixed state with respect to the other, and if Lucky measures the vertical polarization of his groups of cookies, there should be a correlation between his results and mine which can only be explained by non-local communication of my choice, on the fly, of which way I measured the polarization, to his apparatus. Now here we have good news and bad news. The good news is that when we do such an experiment, precisely enough to know for sure that there is a spacelike separation between the two measurement events, we do indeed see the correlation predicted by quantum mechanics. The bad news is that either end of the experiment, by itself, cannot see this correlation without knowing what results were obtained by the person at the other end. The correlation is between both ends. There is no experiment that can be done by either end alone which will turn out differently depending upon what the guy at the opposite end is doing. Thus, while such experiments involve non-local communication between two locations separated by a spacelike distance, such communication is obvious only to someone able to see what is going on in both places at once, but not to either isolated experimenter. Hence, the non-local collapse of quantum mechanical wavefunctions cannot be employed for the transmission of information. A similar argument applies to quantum teleporation, in which the value of some measurable variable is transferred from a dynamical system to one of two particles in correlated but unknown quantum states, causing the particle's twin to take on an identical value. Again, a person able to view both systems can see that non-local communication has taken place, but there is nothing either end can do by itself to learn what has transpired at the other end. This is because the correlation which proves non-local communication is present only in combined data from both ends of the experiment, but not in data from either end alone. -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law" From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 04:47:03 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: EPR, Bell, and FTL Bandwidth (fwd) Message-ID: <199801282036.OAA08857@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > From: Eric Cordian > Subject: EPR, Bell, and FTL Bandwidth > Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 14:17:49 -0600 (CST) > Think of the classical case. I bake two fortune cookies, one with > "FOO" written on the slip of paper inside, and the other reading > "BAR." I then put them in a box and shake it for quite a while, until > the final state has chaotic dependence upon initial conditions, and > cannot be predicted. I then keep one fortune cookie, and mail the > other one to Lucky Green in Tonga. > > Someday in the future, I open my cookie, and instantly know what Lucky > will see when he opens his. True, but your opening your cookie does not *force* Lucky to open his at the same time. This is one fault with this model. The 'state' of the cookies are not inter-dependant as the polarization of the photon pairs are. > In doing so, I have created a > "instantaneous" correlation between two things separated by a vast It isn't instantanous, the correlation existed when they were printed and doesn't change. If I destroy one of the cookies it doesn't destroy the other spontaneously as would happen in a correlated photon-pair. The state of the individual cookies exists because of the observer and not a fundamental requirement of the cookies existing. > I am sure we will agree that there was no genuine faster-then-light > communication of information in this case. On this we can agree. > In quantum mechanics, pairs of observables may have the property that > both of them may not be known precisely for a physical system. The > Heisenberg Uncertainty principle states this for position and > momentum. Incorrect. The Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle states that in order to measure one parameter the other must *necessarily* change because they are in actuality different aspects of the *same* characteristic. They are *not* indipendant aspects of the system being observed. Momentum and position are different sides of the same coin. A conservation effect is what we are dealing with. This same conservation issue arises, and in fact allows FTL state transitions, with bound photon-pairs. > Similar relationships exist for energy and time, > polarization or angular momentum measured with respect to different > axes, and various other things. In addition, measuring a physical > system for one such variable always changes its wavefunction into one > for which the value of that variable is precisely specified, and the > value of the other "non-commuting" variable is not. Not quite. In the act of measuring one parameter we necessarily change the other. That change is what we can't measure *at the same time* not the absolute value at a given time tau. > You can see this easily with three polarizing filters. If you shine a > light through two of them at right angles to each other, it will be > completely blocked. Only if the light has a single polarization. If you shine a circularly polarized light through you will in fact see light on the other side. [more stuff deleted] ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Robert Hettinga Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 05:21:09 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: sat survailience In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980127210104.006c5f24@shell15.ba.best.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 12:22 am -0500 on 1/28/98, geeman@best.com wrote: > IMPORTANT INFORMATION RESTORED AFTER INEXPLICABLE DELETION: > > >Staff Reporter of WALL STREET JOURNAL> ObExplication: "You might say that. I couldn't possibly comment." Cheers, Bob Hettinga (who's copyright allowable-dollar-decrement variable has decremented rather considerably since President Cliton's new copyright law came into effect...) ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/ Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 05:15:17 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com Subject: shor.html Message-ID: <199801282110.PAA09102@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain _________________________________________________________________ next up previous Next: Introduction _________________________________________________________________ ALGORITHMS FOR QUANTUM COMPUTATION: *[1EX] DISCRETE LOG AND FACTORING *[2EX] EXTENDED ABSTRACT Peter W. Shor AT&T Bell Labs Room 2D-149 600 Mountain Ave. Murray Hill, NJ 07974 USA *[2ex] email: shor@research.att.com Abstract: This paper gives algorithms for the discrete log and the factoring problems that take random polynomial time on a quantum computer (thus giving the first examples of quantum cryptanalysis). _________________________________________________________________ * Introduction * Quantum Computation * Building Unitary Transformations * Discrete Log: The Easy Case * A Note on Precision * Discrete Log: The General Case * Factoring * Acknowledgements * References * About this document ... _________________________________________________________________ Isaac Chuang Thu Aug 31 08:48:03 PDT 1995 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 05:17:13 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com Subject: comp.html Message-ID: <199801282114.PAA09205@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain _________________________________________________________________ next up previous Next: Computing at the atomic scale _________________________________________________________________ QUANTUM COMPUTATION: A TUTORIAL COOL CENTRAL SITE OF THE HOUR Samuel L. Braunstein Abstract: Imagine a computer whose memory is exponentially larger than its apparent physical size; a computer that can manipulate an exponential set of inputs simultaneously; a computer that computes in the twilight zone of Hilbert space. You would be thinking of a quantum computer. Relatively few and simple concepts from quantum mechanics are needed to make quantum computers a possibility. The subtlety has been in learning to manipulate these concepts. Is such a computer an inevitability or will it be too difficult to build? In this paper we give a tutorial on how quantum mechanics can be used to improve computation. Our challenge: solving an exponentially difficult problem for a conventional computer---that of factoring a large number. As a prelude, we review the standard tools of computation, universal gates and machines. These ideas are then applied first to classical, dissipationless computers and then to quantum computers. A schematic model of a quantum computer is described as well as some of the subtleties in its programming. The Shor algorithm [1,2] for efficiently factoring numbers on a quantum computer is presented in two parts: the quantum procedure within the algorithm and the classical algorithm that calls the quantum procedure. The mathematical structure in factoring which makes the Shor algorithm possible is discussed. We conclude with an outlook to the feasibility and prospects for quantum computation in the coming years. Let us start by describing the problem at hand: factoring a number N into its prime factors (e.g., the number 51688 may be decomposed as ). A convenient way to quantify how quickly a particular algorithm may solve a problem is to ask how the number of steps to complete the algorithm scales with the size of the ``input'' the algorithm is fed. For the factoring problem, this input is just the number N we wish to factor; hence the length of the input is . (The base of the logarithm is determined by our numbering system. Thus a base of 2 gives the length in binary; a base of 10 in decimal.) `Reasonable' algorithms are ones which scale as some small-degree polynomial in the input size (with a degree of perhaps 2 or 3). On conventional computers the best known factoring algorithm runs in steps [3]. This algorithm, therefore, scales exponentially with the input size . For instance, in 1994 a 129 digit number (known as RSA129 [3']) was successfully factored using this algorithm on approximately 1600 workstations scattered around the world; the entire factorization took eight months [4]. Using this to estimate the prefactor of the above exponential scaling, we find that it would take roughly 800,000 years to factor a 250 digit number with the same computer power; similarly, a 1000 digit number would require years (significantly lon ger than the age of the universe). The difficulty of factoring large numbers is crucial for public-key cryptosystems, such as ones used by banks. There, such codes rely on the difficulty of factoring numbers with around 250 digits. Recently, an algorithm was developed for factoring numbers on a quantum computer which runs in steps where is small [1]. This is roughly quadratic in the input size, so factoring a 1000 digit number with such an algorithm would require only a few million steps. The implication is that public key cryptosystems based on factoring may be breakable. To give you an idea of how this exponential improvement might be possible, we review an elementary quantum mechanical experiment that demonstrates where such power may lie hidden [5]. The two-slit experiment is prototypic for observing quantum mechanical behavior: A source emits photons, electrons or other particles that arrive at a pair of slits. These particles undergo unitary evolution and finally measurement. We see an interference pattern, with both slits open, which wholely vanishes if either slit is covered. In some sense, the particles pass through both slits in parallel. If such unitary evolution were to represent a calculation (or an operation within a calculation) then the quantum system would be performing computations in parallel. Quantum parallelism comes for free. The output of this system would be given by the constructive interference among the parallel computations. _________________________________________________________________ * Computing at the atomic scale: * Reversible computation: * Classical universal machines and logic gates: * FANOUT and ERASE: * Computation without ERASE: * Elementary quantum notation: * Logic gates for quantum bits: * Model quantum computer and quantum code: * Quantum parallelism: Period of a sequence: * Factoring numbers: * Prospects: * Appendix: * Acknowledgements: * References * About this document ... _________________________________________________________________ next up previous Next: Computing at the _________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________ Samuel L. Braunstein Wed Aug 23 11:54:31 IDT 1995 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Thomas Porter Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 04:37:43 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: Quantum teleportation and communication In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980128152643.29e74aca@pop.mindspring.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 10:29 AM 1/28/98 -0800, Tim May thoughtfully expounded thus: [Info on various quantum effects snipped] >More info in the sources named. Avoid the pop science treatments by Nick >Herbert, unless other, more mainstream sources are also consulted at the >same time. And definitely avoid the "psi" nonsense of Jack Sarfatti. > >Gribbin's books are pretty good. > While Sarfatti may be a bit whacko. PSI is proving to be anything but nonsense. I agree that there is a _lot_ of "sheep & goats" effect in the literature, but I think Ed May's critiques of the AIR study of Remote Viewing done by SAIC's Cognitive Sciences Laboratory (at http://www.lfr.org/csl/index.html ) are worth reading. MI analysts who did RV at Ft. Meade have received commendations and medals for the intelligence they generated using RV. FWIW Tom Porter txporter@mindspring.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." FIGHT U.S. GOVT. CRYPTO-FASCISM, EXPORT A CRYPTO SYSTEM! RSA in PERL: print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 06:01:48 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: EPR, Bell, and FTL Bandwidth (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801282036.OAA08857@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199801282153.PAA09550@wire.insync.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Jim Choate writes: >> Think of the classical case. I bake two fortune cookies, one with >> "FOO" written on the slip of paper inside, and the other reading >> "BAR." I then put them in a box and shake it for quite a while, until >> the final state has chaotic dependence upon initial conditions, and >> cannot be predicted. I then keep one fortune cookie, and mail the >> other one to Lucky Green in Tonga. >> Someday in the future, I open my cookie, and instantly know what >> Lucky will see when he opens his. > True, but your opening your cookie does not *force* Lucky to open his > at the same time. This is one fault with this model. The 'state' of > the cookies are not inter-dependant as the polarization of the photon > pairs are. While it is true that my examining my cookie does not force Lucky to examine his, the same can be said of a photon experiment, where the photons can remain in flight for an arbitrary period of time before being measured. However, if there is no spacelike separation between the two measurments, one has not proved non-local collapse. The state of the cookies is highly correlated, since they have opposite values. The polarization of the photon pairs is similarly correlated, as they have equal values. > It isn't instantanous, the correlation existed when they were printed > and doesn't change. And indeed in the photon case, the entanglement exists when two photons with correlated wavefunctions are created. > If I destroy one of the cookies it doesn't destroy the other > spontaneously as would happen in a correlated photon-pair. Nope. Destroying one of a pair of entangled photons does nothing to the other. Just like the cookies. It's just that measurements on both photons may be correlated in a way which would seem to suggest non-local collapse of their combined wavefunction, if a choice of which of two non-commuting observables to measure is done on the fly. But if I give you one of a pair of entangled photons, I can't make anything happen to that photon at a distance that you can detect by doing something to my photon, even though measurements done on both photons may show a correlation which implies non-local collapse. > Incorrect. The Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle states that in order > to measure one parameter the other must *necessarily* change because > they are in actuality different aspects of the *same* characteristic. Not at all. Position and momentum are like location and frequency of a wave. A pure sinusoidal wave exists everywhere on the t axis, and a function whose support is confined to a small region is a superposition of a whole range of frequencies. I cannot make a waveform which is non-zero simultaneously in an arbitrary small portion of the both the time and frequency domains. Similarly I cannot construct a quantum mechanical wavefunction which is confined to an arbitrarily small portion of the position and momentum domains. This does not mean that position and momentum are different aspects of some other dynamical quantity. Both position and momentum are fundamental dynamical variables, in and of themselves. >> You can see this easily with three polarizing filters. If you shine a >> light through two of them at right angles to each other, it will be >> completely blocked. > Only if the light has a single polarization. If you shine a circularly > polarized light through you will in fact see light on the other side. Circularly polarized light is simply a superposition of vertically and horizontally polarized light of different phases. It has no magical ability to make it through two polarizing filters set at 90 degrees to each other. (This is an experiment *YOU* can perform at home!) -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law" From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Fisher Mark Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 05:01:56 +0800 To: "'cypherpunks'" Subject: Microsoft Internet Explorer: Request for Comments Message-ID: <83C932393B88D111AED30000F84104A70A1ECC@indyexch_fddi.indy.tce.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain (taking a deep breath, and donning a flame-resistant Kevlar suit...) We are meeting with Microsoft tomorrow (1/29, 10am EST) to discuss the problems in and needed enhancements for Internet Explorer 4.x. If anyone would care to pass along their comments, I would welcome them. Note that I would prefer serious comments, although any that are both sufficiently humorous and not too defamatory towards Microsoft might also be passed along. (We currently have lists of 73 bugs and 27 enhancement requests...) ========================================================== Mark Leighton Fisher Thomson Consumer Electronics fisherm@indy.tce.com Indianapolis, IN "Browser Torture Specialist, First Class" From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Uhh...this is Joe [Randall Farmer]" Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 06:06:35 +0800 Subject: Predicting cipher life / NSA rigged DES? / Destroying encrypted data (Tangent to Re: Burning papers) In-Reply-To: <199801252007.OAA19838@manifold.algebra.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain [These messages were postponed for trillions of years I finally sent them; apologies if something is grossly outdated.] Been thinking, most applications for ciphers assume solely based on cipher x's keysize that data will be secure for a certain length of time. It'd be nice if we had some way to estimate how long we can hope the cipher to last. Of course, there's no way to predict anything for sure, but you could make an estimate. I'm wondering if there's any way to make a more accurate prediction of how much more analysis it will survive with fancy statistics or something. My idea -- which I know wouldn't work very well, which is why I'm asking if there's a way to actually make a good guess -- is averaging the remaining lifetimes in analysis-hours of broken ciphers which survived as many person-hours of attack as the one in question. =============================================================================== Am I just going crazy, or is it kind of obvious that NSA knew the s-boxes they provided for DES weren't secure? I mean, they pretty much had to know about the attacks outside cryptographers are just now discovering -- they have more than ten years of cryptographers' time every day, and they certainly knew about differential cryptanalysis. Let's hope they don't meddle similarly in AES... =============================================================================== > > Of course, if your documents are on floppy disks, any shredder that > > won't jam on them does a pretty good job :-) > > I burned a couple of floppies, too. Actually I am not sure how good job > would shredding of floppies do. I assume that bits and pieces of data > can still be recovered... But hopefully no one would care enough. One fairly simple feature for disk encryptors that came up during one of the #ElectronicFrontiers (sp?) chats was that of using random numbers with the key so you can demolish an encrypted volume in a split-second. Works like this: there's one 192-bit (or whatever your keylength is) value which is a hash of your passphrase. There's another value, this one a cryptographically random one of the same size, stored on a fixed physical place on the disk. If you wish to destroy the data on powerdown, there can be a third value stored in memory, which is written to disk at authorized shutdown and read+wiped from disk at startup. Anyhow, these two (or three) values are XORed together to form the key used to encrypt the volume. When your adversaries, armed with their trusty rubber hoses, come knocking at and/or down your door, you hit a hotkey to start destroying those 24 bytes on disk, which can be done faster and more effectively than a wipe of every sector in the volume. The folks with the rubber hoses are now, assuming this is their first peek at your disk, screwed; even with your passphrase, they don't know a thing about your data. > > - Igor. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Randall Farmer rfarmer@hiwaay.net http://hiwaay.net/~rfarmer From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Eric Cordian Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 06:13:28 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: Quantum teleportation and communication In-Reply-To: <199801282100.WAA07953@basement.replay.com> Message-ID: <199801282204.QAA09588@wire.insync.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Anonymous writes: > Tim May knows no more about quantum mechanics than he does about > cryptography. He is wrong about the nature of the correlation between > the two photons. Tim is right. Please put this lovely cone-shaped hat on and sit on the stool in the corner. > Don't trust what Tim May writes. He is not only a hypocrite > (complaining about chemistry discussions while adding to an equally > off-topic physics thread), but a fool as well. Aren't comments like this supposed to come with an illustrative ASCII graphic? -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law" From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: John Blair Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 06:19:55 +0800 To: Fisher Mark Subject: Re: Microsoft Internet Explorer: Request for Comments In-Reply-To: <83C932393B88D111AED30000F84104A70A1ECC@indyexch_fddi.indy.tce.com> Message-ID: <199801282206.QAA24712@frodo.tucc.uab.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- FisherM@exch1.indy.tce.com said: > (taking a deep breath, and donning a flame-resistant Kevlar suit...) > We are meeting with Microsoft tomorrow (1/29, 10am EST) to discuss the > problems in and needed enhancements for Internet Explorer 4.x. If > anyone would care to pass along their comments, I would welcome them. > Note that I would prefer serious comments, although any that are both > sufficiently humorous and not too defamatory towards Microsoft might > also be passed along. (We currently have lists of 73 bugs and 27 > enhancement requests...) Suggest that Microsoft encourage peer review of of the portions of IE used for encryption and authentication by publishing the source code used to implement these functions. The quality of the code would certainly improve (I don't believe it could get worse ;) if MS incorporated suggestions in a timely matter. Such a move would also do much to improve Microsoft's reputation in the "hacker" community (that's "hacker" in the good sense, not the intruder/cracker/vandal sense) by showing that they understand that "security through obscurity is no security." If Microsoft (and other companies) hear about the need to do this often enough from enough different source, perhaps they will begin to listen. -john. ...................................................................... . . .....John.D.Blair... mailto:jdblair@uab.edu phoneto:205.975.7123 . . http://frodo.tucc.uab.edu faxto:205.975.7129 . ..sys|net.admin.... . . the university computer center ..... ..... g.e.e.k.n.i.k...the.university.of.alabama.at.birmingham.... -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBNM+r9AJjTpK3AXhBAQEvBgQAgzqpF/qJKZL10RjcB7ixI2LMQQMHejpN 3L2/97d2wvin7amtdIgyhELnSdkaTmwZsqkbfwinlg/ay0lXx9ygFLgbcC/AsIef 54vbPat3Btu+vTrINRZOomQF85LezlTDKt6fznUaoWqCOGu9L0FeiMPSN9WqY6uG OZg3ZVf/nvY= =j4oQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: jim@mentat.com (Jim Gillogly) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 08:34:07 +0800 To: rfarmer@HiWAAY.net Subject: Re: Predicting cipher life / NSA rigged DES? / Destroying encrypted data (Tangent to Re: Burning papers) Message-ID: <9801290026.AA13035@mentat.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Randall Farmer skribis: > Been thinking, most applications for ciphers assume solely based on cipher x's > keysize that data will be secure for a certain length of time. ... > My idea ... is averaging the remaining lifetimes in > analysis-hours of broken ciphers which survived as many person-hours of attack > as the one in question. Doesn't seem terribly likely. Typically ciphers will look strong until someone discovers a chink. The chink will sometimes lead to a serious break, but not always, and not always quickly -- but at that point the cipher looks weak. Your best chance at encrypting stuff that needs a long shelf life is with a cipher that's had a lot of analysis and plenty of intrinsic key, like 3DES. > Am I just going crazy, or is it kind of obvious that NSA knew the s-boxes they > provided for DES weren't secure? The former. The S-boxes they replaced were bogus, and the ones they came up with were good against differential cryptanalysis -- better than random ones. There's no a priori reason to believe they knew about linear cryptanalysis, and in any case Matsui's l.c. attack on DES is better than brute force only in situations where you have a great deal of known or chosen plaintext. So how come you claim they aren't secure? DES isn't suitable for long-archived info, but is still OK for short-lifetime data against a not-too-motivated attacker: its only known weakness for this application is its key-length, not its S-boxes. > Anyhow, these two (or three) values are XORed together to form the key used to > encrypt the volume. When your adversaries, armed with their trusty rubber > hoses, come knocking at and/or down your door, you hit a hotkey to start > destroying those 24 bytes on disk, which can be done faster and more > effectively than a wipe of every sector in the volume. The folks with the I like it! Jim Gillogly Trewesday, 8 Solmath S.R. 1998, 00:27 12.19.4.15.17, 8 Caban 15 Muan, Second Lord of Night From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Attila T. Hun" Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 01:17:35 +0800 To: cypherpunks Subject: can you believe the Bulgarians? Message-ID: <19980128.170644.attila@hun.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- can you believe it? a site dedicated to declaring they believe Bubba is innocent! --and have a petition. you can join Jack The Ripper, Ted Kaczynski, Ted Bundy, JFK, and a host of others in support of free oral sex in the Whitehouse. just type your nym and vote early and vote often. 1300+ hits and less than 100 marks. Monica was quoted as saying she was "going to Washington to get her presidental knee pads." enjoy... http://faith.digsys.bg/prj/clinton/clinton.html attila out again... in disbelief that "the Creep" is still President! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: latin1 Comment: No safety this side of the grave. Never was; never will be iQBVAwUBNM9leLR8UA6T6u61AQHYMwH/Sge0rVd2cYoE6gJyPCXBxf8kpNdvogB8 bsYdhV5/zwQJIdSVX+fGRLl6fdi+Qugdiii6dMP/2Y2jFDFIpYzHIg== =/k4R -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: jim@mentat.com (Jim Gillogly) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 09:25:53 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: Can someone look this up? (fwd) Message-ID: <9801290114.AA13878@mentat.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Ray Arachelian skribis: > Can someone on the list look this up? > > *************************************************************** > If the government has no knowledge of aliens, then why does > Title 14, Section 1211 of the Code of Federal Regulations, > implemented on July 16, 1969, make it illegal for U.S. > citizens to have any contact with extraterrestrials or their > vehicles? An authoritative-looking message from Ken Jenks of NASA appears at http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/8148/quaranti.html . It says this section was repealed 26 Apr 1991, and that the intent was to allow for a quarantine after the Apollo missions. The full text appears on that page. It talks about exposure to lunar material from NASA space shots, rather than UFO contacts. Jim Gillogly Trewesday, 8 Solmath S.R. 1998, 01:13 12.19.4.15.18, 9 Edznab 16 Muan, Third Lord of Night From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 07:26:26 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: Interesting Chemical Reaction (fwd) Message-ID: <199801282322.RAA09923@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 17:36:28 -0500 > From: ghio@temp0200.myriad.ml.org (Matthew Ghio) > Subject: Re: Interesting Chemical Reaction > Here's something to ponder: > > Consider two objects initially at the same temperature. One is at the > focus of a hemispherical mirror. An elliptical mirror with both objects > at its foci encloses the remaining space. > > Because of the spherical mirror, the first object reabsorbs most of its > heat lost by radiation, but most of the second object's radiated heat is > reflected upon the first. Hence the first object becomes warmer relative > to the second. > > The entropy here appears to decrease, but according to thermodynamics that > is impossible. Can anyone explain how it is that the total entropy would > not decrease? > Because the thermodynamics assume a *closed* model. The base assumption of your model is that it is closed. This means that not only the mirror, and the two focii are in the system, but also the light source. When taken as a whole the entropy is constant. Now if you allow the light to pass through the mirror from outside an initial axiomatic assumption, a closed system, is broken. This is the reason that thermodynamic arguments against evolution fail, the Earth is most certainly *not* a closed system. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 07:33:34 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: EPR, Bell, and FTL Bandwidth (fwd) Message-ID: <199801282331.RAA09988@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > From: Eric Cordian > Subject: Re: EPR, Bell, and FTL Bandwidth (fwd) > Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 15:53:28 -0600 (CST) > >> Someday in the future, I open my cookie, and instantly know what > >> Lucky will see when he opens his. > > > True, but your opening your cookie does not *force* Lucky to open his > > at the same time. This is one fault with this model. The 'state' of > > the cookies are not inter-dependant as the polarization of the photon > > pairs are. > > While it is true that my examining my cookie does not force Lucky to > examine his, the same can be said of a photon experiment, where the > photons can remain in flight for an arbitrary period of time before > being measured. Um, actualy no. Since the photons are coupled we know that the second photon has actualy changed it's polarization, either that or your original assumption they are coupled is not true. The polarization between the two photons *must* be zero. Otherwise you arent' playing with our physics. > The state of the cookies is highly correlated, since they have > opposite values. The polarization of the photon pairs is similarly > correlated, as they have equal values. Correlation is not a function of any quantity conservation operation. The values of the photons are actualy opposite and therefore sum to zero. Foo is not the inverse of Bar, as is the case for horizontal and vertical polarization. > > It isn't instantanous, the correlation existed when they were printed > > and doesn't change. > > And indeed in the photon case, the entanglement exists when two > photons with correlated wavefunctions are created. True, but the swap of polarization was *not*. That occured later and is what changes instantly irrespective of distance. > > If I destroy one of the cookies it doesn't destroy the other > > spontaneously as would happen in a correlated photon-pair. > > Nope. Destroying one of a pair of entangled photons does nothing to > the other. Yes, it causes the correlation to be destroyed. You are not taking into account the correllation or polarization dependency between the two photons. Our base assumption is that when photon A is horizontal then photon B is vertical. This *must* occur to preserve symmetry. [more stuff deleted] ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: ghio@temp0200.myriad.ml.org (Matthew Ghio) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 06:44:04 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: Interesting Chemical Reaction In-Reply-To: <199801280413.WAA08034@wire.insync.net> Message-ID: <199801282236.RAA10371@myriad> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Igor Chudov @ home wrote: > What I still do not understand though is what happens between the > water and ammonium nitrate that consumes so much energy. > > I mean, okay, you need to spend energy to mix these two things. Then, > logically, they should not "want" to mix, right? But empirically, > ammonuim nitrate literally sucks water vapors from the air. How come? For the same reason that water evaporates and the remainder gets colder. The energy is consumed by breaking the chemical bonds in the ammonium nitrate. Temperature is the average amount of kinetic energy of the molecules, and so some molecules are moving faster than average and some are moving more slowly. The fast-moving molecules collide with the ammonium nitrate and their energy is consumed by breaking the ionic bonds. Since the fast-moving molecules get slowed down in the process, the average temperature drops. Eric Cordian wrote: > And for those who may think that endothermic reactions violate some basic > law about entropy always increasing, I should point out that the increase > in entropy from the uniform mixing of two different materials can more > than compensate for the decrease in temperature. Ain't science wonderful? Here's something to ponder: Consider two objects initially at the same temperature. One is at the focus of a hemispherical mirror. An elliptical mirror with both objects at its foci encloses the remaining space. Because of the spherical mirror, the first object reabsorbs most of its heat lost by radiation, but most of the second object's radiated heat is reflected upon the first. Hence the first object becomes warmer relative to the second. The entropy here appears to decrease, but according to thermodynamics that is impossible. Can anyone explain how it is that the total entropy would not decrease? From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 08:12:32 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: More down-to-earth apps for quantum teleportation... Message-ID: <199801290008.SAA10115@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Hi, On a slightly different tack, consider the application of quantum teleportation to computer construction issues related to propagation delays and multiplexing of data and control lines in limited volumes. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Eric Cordian Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 08:37:31 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: EPR, Bell, and FTL Bandwidth (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801282331.RAA09988@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199801290030.SAA09986@wire.insync.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Jim Choate writes: > Um, actualy no. Since the photons are coupled we know that the second > photon has actualy changed it's polarization, either that or your > original assumption they are coupled is not true. No. Doing something to the first photon does not do anything to the second, much less change its polarization. The operators for polarization for the two photons commute, so they are simultaneously measureable. The statistical correlation of measurements done on many pairs of photons, with a choice of axis for measuring the polarization selected on the fly, reflects that predicted by quantum mechanics for non-local collapse of the overall wave function. It is wrong to interpret this as something done to one photon having a physical effect on the other. > The polarization between the two photons *must* be zero. Otherwise you > arent' playing with our physics. Sorry, *OUR* physics explains all of this quite nicely. > Correlation is not a function of any quantity conservation operation. > The values of the photons are actualy opposite and therefore sum to > zero. Foo is not the inverse of Bar, as is the case for horizontal and > vertical polarization. This isn't even wrong. > True, but the swap of polarization was *not*. That occured later and > is what changes instantly irrespective of distance. There is no "swap of polarizations." The wavefunction of the entire system changes quite smoothly with time, under the influence of the usual operator. Measurement places the system in an eigenstate for the thing measured, and simultaneous measurements on branch systems may show correlations consistant with non-local collapse of the wavefunction. None of this implies any physical effect on one photon as a result of something done to the other. > Yes, it causes the correlation to be destroyed. You are not taking > into account the correllation or polarization dependency between the > two photons. Our base assumption is that when photon A is horizontal > then photon B is vertical. This *must* occur to preserve symmetry. This isn't even wrong, either. -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law" From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 10:36:23 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Chaining ciphers In-Reply-To: <9801290026.AA13035@mentat.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 4:26 PM -0800 1/28/98, Jim Gillogly wrote: >Doesn't seem terribly likely. Typically ciphers will look strong until >someone discovers a chink. The chink will sometimes lead to a serious >break, but not always, and not always quickly -- but at that point the >cipher looks weak. Your best chance at encrypting stuff that needs a >long shelf life is with a cipher that's had a lot of analysis and >plenty of intrinsic key, like 3DES. Carl Ellison talks about his strategy for chaining several ciphers. I'm surprised more emphasis isn't given to doing this. For example, suppose one chains 3DES, Blowfish, MISTY, IDEA, and GHOST together (I haven't checked Schneier on these, but you all presumably get the idea). Then if any one of these ciphers is shown to be weak, the overall chain remains strong. The overall chain is as strong as its strongest link, not its weakest link. I don't think 3DES is weak, but chaining-in additional ciphers can't hurt. (Just a minor slowdown in encipherment speed, presumably not important for some critical uses.) -- Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 08:42:25 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com Subject: waisgate.cgi?WAISdocID=3424713596+1+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve Message-ID: <199801290041.SAA10375@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain [Code of Federal Regulations] [Title 14, Volume 5, Parts 1200 to end] [Revised as of January 1, 1997] >From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access [CITE: 14CFR1211] [Page 75] TITLE 14--AERONAUTICS AND SPACE CHAPTER V--NATIONAL AERONAUTICS AND SPACE ADMINISTRATION PART 1211--[Reserved] From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 08:45:56 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: EPR, Bell, and FTL Bandwidth (fwd) Message-ID: <199801290044.SAA10449@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > From: Eric Cordian > Subject: Re: EPR, Bell, and FTL Bandwidth (fwd) > Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 18:30:56 -0600 (CST) > No. Doing something to the first photon does not do anything to the > second, much less change its polarization. The operators for > polarization for the two photons commute, so they are simultaneously > measureable. This is the last I'm going to respond to this. The photons are 'entangled' which means their states are linked and co-dependant. [rest deleted] ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 08:48:08 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Can someone look this up? (fwd) Message-ID: <199801290045.SAA10499@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 19:16:36 -0500 (EST) > From: Ray Arachelian > Subject: Can someone look this up? (fwd) > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 21:48:14 -0500 > From: Salvatore Denaro > To: 'Ray Arachelian' > Subject: Can someone look this up? > > Can someone on the list look this up? > > *************************************************************** > If the government has no knowledge of aliens, then why does > Title 14, Section 1211 of the Code of Federal Regulations, > implemented on July 16, 1969, make it illegal for U.S. > citizens to have any contact with extraterrestrials or their > vehicles? It is of some interest to note that in the movie 'Andromeda Strain' the code that trips Wildfire is a '1211'... ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: phelix@vallnet.com Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 03:24:45 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Re: Planetary rovers, SETI and other musings, was Re: update.356 (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801272132.PAA01922@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <34cf7df6.1786526@128.2.84.191> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On 28 Jan 1998 12:24:30 -0600, Tim May wrote: >I personally doubt that any flat spacetime topology (e.g., wormholes >excepted) will admit any FTL signals. A lot of things would dramatically >change if FTL communication existed...not the practical "communication" >issues, which are human social minutiae, but issues about synchronization >of reference frames and causality violations. I remember seeing on one of those science specials on The learning channel (or mabye the Discovery channel) that a professor did figure out (accidentally) how to send information faster than light. The only thing I remember about it was the the signal was some kind of music. I remember now, it was a special on time travel on a month ago. Anybody catch it? -- Phelix From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Eric Cordian Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 09:01:59 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: Can someone look this up? (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801290058.SAA10069@wire.insync.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 21:48:14 -0500 > From: Salvatore Denaro > To: 'Ray Arachelian' > Subject: Can someone look this up? > Can someone on the list look this up? > *************************************************************** > If the government has no knowledge of aliens, then why does > Title 14, Section 1211 of the Code of Federal Regulations, > implemented on July 16, 1969, make it illegal for U.S. > citizens to have any contact with extraterrestrials or their > vehicles? This legislation was passed in the Apollo era, and gave the government the right to quarantine vehicles and personnel which had come in contact with anything not of terrestrial origin. It was aimed at writing into law a legal right for NASA to engage in the type of isolation procedures done after the first moon landing, and was not passed with UFOs in mind. It's on the Web somewhere, but I don't recall the URL. -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law" From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Ray Arachelian Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 08:25:42 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Can someone look this up? (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 21:48:14 -0500 From: Salvatore Denaro To: 'Ray Arachelian' Subject: Can someone look this up? Can someone on the list look this up? *************************************************************** If the government has no knowledge of aliens, then why does Title 14, Section 1211 of the Code of Federal Regulations, implemented on July 16, 1969, make it illegal for U.S. citizens to have any contact with extraterrestrials or their vehicles? From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 02:32:24 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: FWD --Progressive Review On-Line Report #70 (fwd) Message-ID: <199801281822.TAA14817@basement.replay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 11:43:02 -0500 From: The Progressive Review <72067.1525@compuserve.com> Subject: Progressive Review On-Line Report #70 PROGRESSIVE REVIEW ON-LINE REPORT #70 January 26, 1998 WASHINGTON'S MOST UNOFFICIAL SOURCE A service of the Progressive Review: 1739 Conn. Ave. NW Washington DC 20009 202-232-5544 Fax: 202-234-6222 E-mail: ssmith@igc.org Editor: Sam Smith. The Progressive Review On-Line and our archives are found on the Web at: http://emporium.turnpike.net/P/ProRev/ For a free trial subscription to our hard copy edition and e-mail updates send us your postal address with zip code(Sorry, foreign addresses will receive e-mail edition only). To unsubscribe, send message with the word 'unsubscribe.' Copyright 1998, The Progressive Review. Matter not independently copyrighted may be reprinted provided you pay TPR your normal reprint fees, if any, and give proper credit. To discuss an appearance by Sam Smith before your group or on your campus, contact The Progressive Review at 202-232-5544 or write ssmith@igc.org AND NOW THE NEWS . . . ACCESSORY AFTER THE FACT: THE MEDIA AND THE CLINTON SCANDALS Because it controls its own medium and can revise history at will, one accessory after the fact in the Clinton scandals is almost certain to remain unscathed: the media. From the beginning, journalists created a fantasy portrait of Bill Clinton as a brilliant visionary, managerial superman, and charismatic leader. During the New Hampshire primary in 1992, the New Republic's Hendrik Hertzberg surveyed several dozen journalists and found that all of them, had they been New Hampshire voters, would have chosen Clinton. He suggested that, "the real reason members of the press like Clinton is simple, and surprisingly uncynical: they think he would make a very good, perhaps a great, president. Several told me they were convinced that Clinton is the most talented presidential candidate they have ever encountered, JFK included." Not only was there no substantive evidence for such a conclusion, there was plenty to suggest that Clinton was instead a politician of no fixed philosophical or moral address, a man who began with compromise and retreated from there, and a rampantly mundane governor. More importantly, he was known to be less than honest, a sexual predator, and hung out with some of the sleaziest types in his state. In Shadows of Hope (Indiana University Press, 1994), I wrote: "At the beginning of the 1992 campaign, few of us knew -- let alone remembered -- anything about Bill Clinton. If we were not from Arkansas, we had nothing for which to thank him. And our whirlwind relationship, our arranged marriage, was under the constant control of the great American matchmaker: the media. Clinton's past was not only unimportant to him, but to us as well. "In an earlier time, Clinton's non-history would have been an enormous disqualification. Now it wasn't because Clinton had one huge edge over his opponents: he looked and acted well on TV. Tom Harkin moved and spoke as mechanically as the Energizer bunny; Kerry's personality and platform remained a cipher; Tsongas talked funny; Brown was didactic; but Clinton was at home. "Against this advantage, facts faltered. The facts said that Clinton had been an unexceptional governor. He could claim better prenatal care programs and a decline in infant mortality, but at the same time the Center for the Study of Social Policy would rate the state only 41st on children's issues in general. Arkansas also ranked -- according to the Southern Regional Council -- in the bottom ten percent of all states in average weekly wages; health insurance coverage, state and local school revenue; unemployment; blacks and women in traditional white male jobs; environmental policy and overall conditions for workers. "An examination of his record raised warning flags, not the least of which were rocky relationships with labor and environmentalists. At the beginning of the campaign Clinton came under attack by his state's AFL-CIO president who (before the national union ordered him to shut up) sent around a highly critical report on Clinton's record. Labor, said Bill Becker, should expect Clinton's help only 25-30% of the time. And the League of Conservation Voters ranked Clinton last among the Democratic candidates on conservation issues. "Greater attention to Clinton's record also might have brought to more prominent notice the major tax increases during his tenure. Or the comment by the union official who said that Clinton would slap you on the back and piss down your leg. Or the tendency to waffle on issues. . . ." There were still more serious questions, well summarized by Ambrose Evans- Pritchard of London's Telegraph: "The Clintons are attractive on the surface. As Yale Law School graduates they have mastered the language and style of the mandarin class. It is only when you walk through the mirrors into the Arkansas underworld whence they came that you begin to realize that something is wrong. You learn that Bill Clinton grew up in the Dixie Mafia stronghold of Hot Springs, and that his brother was a drug dealer with ties to the Medilin Cartel. You learn that a cocaine distributor named Dan Lasater was an intimate friend, and that Lasater's top aide would later be given a post in charge of administration (and drug testing) at the White House. You learn that Arkansas was a mini- Colombia within the United States, infested by narco-corruption." For such reasons, by the spring of 1992 I had become convinced that the media portrayal of the Clintons was a fraud. Based on published material available to any reporter in the country, I wrote a "Who's Who of Arkansas" listing questionable individuals and institutions in the state and illustrating their links. Included were Dan Lasater, Roger Clinton, Tyson's Foods, Webb Hubbell, Buddy Young, the Arkansas Development Finance Authority, the Worthen Bank, the Rose law firm, Stephens Inc, Larry Nichols, Terry Reed, Jim & Susan McDougal, Gennifer Flowers, Mena, Ark., and even Mochtar Riady. The names would become familiar. The reporters who actual uncovered the Clinton scandals included Alexander Cockburn, Ambrose Evans-Pritchard, Christopher Ruddy, Jerry Seper, J. D. Cash, Hugh Sprunt, Michael Isakoff, Roger Morris, and Sally Denton. For their troubles they were ridiculed, ignored, considered persona non grata and called "wackos," "paranoids," and "conspiracy theorists." In at least two cases -- a Isakoff''s piece on Paula Jones and a Roger Morris/Sally Denton expose of Mena -- the Washington Post killed major stories just as they were about to go into print, apparently on orders of top management. It has been a shameful period in American journalism. Never have so many journalists looked so determinedly away from the facts in order to maintain a myth. And to this hour they continue. What follows is a listing of Clinton-related stories that should have been investigated further or gotten far more play than they did. It is a reminder that Bill Clinton has not been the only problem we have had in Washington. CLINTON UNCOVERED; THE ORPHANED STORIES OF WHITEWATER STORIES KNOWN BEFORE THE 1992 CONVENTION -- Bill Clinton's affair with Gennifer Flowers and his proposed cover-up of same. Papers such as the Washington Post refused to let their readers know what was in the Flowers' tapes. For example, on the tape, Clinton says, "If they ever hit you with it, just say no and go on. There's nothing they can do. I expected them to look into it and come interview you, but if everybody is on record denying it, no problem." Clinton also called Dukakis a "little Greek motherfucker," said that Cuomo acted as though he were part of the Mafia, and that Ted Kennedy couldn't get "a whore across a bridge." There are constituencies that might have appreciated knowing this before they went to the polls. -- A black prostitute in Arkansas claims that Clinton had fathered her child -- Another woman reports being approached by a Clinton aide at a hotel pool, who then arranges a sexual encounter with the governor. -- A former Miss Arkansas appears on the Sally Jesse Rafael Show in July 1992 to say that she has had an affair with Clinton. Sally Perdue later told the London Telegraph that Clinton often dropped over. After the TV appearance she said she was visited by a man who called himself a "Democratic Party operative" who warned her not to reveal specifics of the affair: "He said there were people in high places who were anxious about me and they wanted me to know that keeping my mouth shut would be worthwhile. . . If I was a good little girl, and didn't kill the messenger; I'd be set for life: a federal job, nothing fancy but a regular paycheck. . . I'd never have to worry again. But if I didn't take the offer, then they knew that I went jogging by myself and he couldn't guarantee what would happen to my 'pretty little legs.' " Perdue said she found a shotgun cartridge on the driver's seat of her Jeep and later had her back window shattered. -- Alexander Cockburn reports that Larry Nichols, the state employee who first brought the Flowers-Clinton and other liaisons to light, had recanted but only after a physical threat. -- There is substantial evidence of illegal Contra and drug operations at Mena. Not only did most of the media fail to report the story, but Time, in a piece called Anatomy of Smear, attempted to discredit those who had made charges about Mena. -- There are reports of questionable financial operations of the Arkansas Development Finance Authority, set up by Clinton and first headed by Dan Lasater, who was later convicted of cocaine distribution and who helped Roger Clinton pay his debt to drug dealers. -- On April 14, 1992, the Washington Times reports that "A federal-state drug task force secretly recorded in June 1984 Gov. Bill Clinton's brother, Roger, a heavy cocaine user at the time, boasting that he often took women to the governor's mansion for sex." -- Basic questions arise about Hillary Clinton's role as a lawyer representing Madison Guaranty. These questions should have at least stalled her canonization by the media, if not encouraging some actual investigative reporting. -- Serious questions arise about how Clinton, while running for state attorney general, came to be a part owner in Whitewater. Whitewater is basically a resort land scam. More than half the purchasers would lose their land thanks to the sleazy form of financing used. -- Connections between Jackson Stephens and the founder of BCCI are revealed. Stephen's bank provides a multimillion dollar line of credit that allows Clinton to stay in the primaries. According to a March 23 Alexander Cockburn story, "It was Jackson Stephens who brokered the arrival of [BCCI] into this country in 1977. He steered the bank's founder, Hassan Abedi, toward Jimmy Carter's budget director, Bert Lance. . . .Stephens then helped clear the ground, according to SEC documents, for Abedi's secret takeover of First American Bankshares." SUBSEQUENT SEX STORIES -- Important confirmation of the Gennifer Flowers story appears in an Art Harris Penthouse article in November 1992 that is widely ignored. Harris' witnesses included Flowers' mother, ex-roommate and a former boyfriend. -- Reports from four Arkansas state troopers of Clinton's sexual activities, both before and after election, are discounted, ridiculed or ignored. These include one trooper's report that he had brought a woman to the governor's mansion during pre-dawn hours on three occasions after the election. Also reported by troopers: one affair that lasted as late as January 1993. The New York Times runs a piece trying to discredit the troopers. -- State phone call records and other bills, the LA Times reports, include 59 Clinton calls to one woman's home and office between 1989 and 1991. -- A state trooper reports driving Clinton to Gennifer Flowers' apartment. -- Paula Jones accuses Bill Clinton of sexually harassing her while he was governor. This story will be long ignored, ridiculed or underplayed. -- Timothy Maier of Insight Magazine follows up his stunning story of Clinton administration bugging of over 300 locations during the 1993 Seattle Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation Conference with word that FBI videotapes of diplomatic suites "show underage boys engaging in sexcapades with men in several rooms over a period of days." The operation involved the FBI, CIA, NSA and Office of Naval Intelligence. Bugged were hotel rooms, telephones, conference centers, cars, and even a charter boat. Some of the information obtained was apparently passed on to individuals with financial interests in Asia. Also involved: alleged kickbacks on purchases of surveillance equipment by the spooks. -- On July 3, 1997, Gennifer Flowers, interviewed by Penny Crone and Curtis Sliwa on New York's WABC, claims that she had received threats -- including death threats -- around the time of her tape recorded conversations with Bill Clinton and that this was why she had made the recordings. Asked whether she thought Clinton was behind the threats, Flowers replied, "What I thought, after my home was ransacked, was that he was behind that -- simply because I had called to tell him about it and it was his reaction it. I mean, he acted, he was aloof. Her didn't act that concerned. He said, 'Well, why do you think they came in there?' And I said, 'Well, why the hell do you think?' He said, 'Well, do you think they were looking for something on us?' I said, 'Well, yes.'" THE VINCE FOSTER CASE -- The mainstream media's conviction that any concerns about Vince Foster's death are paranoid delusions is supported by virtually no independent investigations. The media accepts without question shoddy, incomplete and misleading reports by two special prosecutors and resorts to personal attacks on critics. The issues raised by investigator such as Chris Ruddy, Ambrose Evans-Pritchard and Hugh Sprunt have not yet been answered. -- Even Kenneth Starr is interested in the apparent cover-up and obstruction of justice by high levels of White House that took place after Foster's death. The media is bored by the story. -- Patrick Knowlton files a lawsuit against the federal government alleging extraordinary harassment aimed at dissuading him from sticking to his account of what he saw in Ft. Marcy Park not long before the Foster body was found. This harassment involved intensive and overt surveillance by at least 25 men, some which was witnessed by his girlfriend and by investigative reporter Christopher Ruddy. Knowlton's car was also smashed by a person with a tire iron in front of witnesses. Investigative reporter Ambrose Evans-Pritchard tracked down the car-smasher as well as a couple of members of the surveillance team and believes them to be stringers working for federal government intelligence and law enforcement. -- Over the strenuous opposition of Kenneth Starr, the Whitewater supervising judges unanimously allow a 20-page exception by Patrick Knowlton to be appended to the prosecutor's report on Vince Foster. Seven times Starr tries to get the statement of Knowlton rejected but the judges let it stand -- despite the fact that it directly contradicts Starr and his staff on key points. Most of the media fail to even report the existence of this document. THE JERRY PARKS CASE -- Jerry Parks had been head of security for the Clinton Little Rock HQ. He was also known to be building a dossier on Clinton, perhaps for Hillary. On hearing the news of Foster's death, he told his wife, "I'm a dead man." Not long after he was, rubbed out on a Little Rock street in a mob-style hit. According to Parks' family his files on Clinton were removed by federal agents. The murder has never been solved. THE DIXIE MAFIA AND DRUGS -- The Oct. 18 1994, Wall Street Journal runs a summary of the suppressed investigation into drug running through the Mena, AK, airport. The WSJ story recounts the ten year struggle of IRS investigator William Duncan to expose the Mena operation. Despite nine separate federal and state probes, nothing happened. Says Duncan -- who eventually quit in disgust: "The Mena investigations were never supposed to see the light of day." They were "interfered with and covered up, and the justice system was perverted." -- Writing in the Oct. 9, 1994 London Telegraph, Ambrose Evans-Pritchard writes that Arkansas was a "major point for the transshipment of drugs" during the 1980s and "perilously close to becoming a 'narco-republic' -- a sort of mini-Columbia within the borders of the United States." Evans- Pritchard also alleges that by "1986 there was an epidemic of cocaine, contaminating the political establishment from top to bottom," with parties "at which cocaine would be served like hors d'oeuvres and sex was rampant." He adds that Clinton attended some of these events. -- In early 1995, the Washington Post suppresses Roger Morris and Sally Denton's story on The Crimes of Mena, apparently a decision of top management. -- Former FBI director William Sessions says the Foster probe was "compromised" from the beginning. Sessions had been fired by Bill Clinton the day before Foster's death. -- Janet Reno refuses to let independent prosecutor Dan Smaltz expand his probe into areas that might lead to exposing major drug dealing in Arkansas. . -- The Tampa Tribune tells its readers about an ex-Mena CIA operative who backs up stories concerning the Arkansas drug/Contra trade in the 1980s. The ex-agent reports flying into Mena and Little Rock in 1983 and 1984 with larger coolers marked "medical supplies." Who was on hand to pick up these "medical supplies?" According to the ex-agent, none other than several people quite close to then Governor Bill Clinton. The agent, now in jail, claims he bailed out of black ops after ex-CIA chief William Colby asked him to "neutralize" an American citizen. The Tribune's reporters have seen documents that support the agents' claims. -- While the press has no problem reporting such stories about Barry (or Dan Quayle for that matter), it has not told the public about the existence of a police tape of Roger Clinton describing his own cocaine trafficking and saying of his brother, "Got to get some for my brother; he's got a nose like a vacuum cleaner." -- A former informant for a drug task force in Arkansas tells Ambrose Evans-Pritchard of the London Telegraph that she supplied Bill with cocaine during his first terms as governor. On one occasion, according to the woman, "He was so messed up that night, he slid down the wall into a garbage can." OTHER MATTERS -- In July 1995, The Progressive Review writes: " Early in the Clinton administration your editor had dinner with, among others, a high White House official -- a lawyer. The conversation turned to marijuana. The lawyer said that numerous staffers had asked how they should respond to FBI queries on the matter. The official's reply was that they should remember that they would only be in the White House for a short while but the FBI files would be there forever. And what if friends or relatives actually saw them using pot? The White House lawyer's response: "If you can't look an FBI agent straight in the eye and tell him they were wrong, you don't belong here." -- Hillary Clinton makes a killing on a commodities futures deal that defies the law of averages. -- Louis Freeh, testifying before a House committee is asked whether he has ever before run into a case (as with the Clinton scandals) in which 65 persons refused to testify or had left the country. Freeh said actually he had: " I spent about 16 years doing organized crime cases in New York City and many people were frequently unavailable." -- In just two matters before a House investigating committee (the FBI files and the travel office scandal) high White House officials, including Mrs. Clinton, said "I don't recall," "I don't remember" or something similar over 3,700 times. -- There is growing evidence that the federal government had advance warning of the OKC blast. -- The White House is found to have improper possession of about 900 personal FBI files. Knight-Ridder reports, "College-age interns and other volunteers had free access to hundreds of FBI investigative files kept in the White House security office during the first months of the Clinton administration. Nancy Gemmel, a retired security office deputy, said that during the first few months of the Clinton Administration 'extremely young' interns, 18 to 20 years of age, helped manage the heavy flow of paperwork. Other older volunteers also pitched in. All of them had access to a vault in the office that was used to store the background files. None of the volunteers, according to Gemmel, had been cleared by the FBI to hand such documents." -- LD Brown, a former Arkansas state trooper who worked on Clinton's security details, claims he was approached on a bus in England and offered $100,000 and a job to change his Whitewater testimony. A second offer was allegedly made in Little Rock. THREATS, VIOLENCE & DEATH -- The number of people who have been close to, or worked for, Bill Clinton and who have committed suicide or otherwise experienced sudden death is at the very least a statistical anomaly. Seventeen men who have served Clinton as aides or bodyguards have died violently, four of them during the Waco massacre and the rest in plane crashes. Five other plane crashes have killed persons in the Clinton orbit. There have been six deaths of unknown causes, six apparent suicides, 3 murders, 2 fatal skiing accidents, and one fatal car accident. There have also been a number of beatings, including of a man who had videotaped Clinton entering Gennifer Flowers's apartment. His tapes were seized. -- Aside from the Vince Foster and Jerry Parks deaths, the following especially deserve more attention than they have received to date: >>>Ron Brown's death. It is clear that proper procedure was not observed by the military medical examiners. With the discovery of a wound suggestive of a gun shot, calling for an independent autopsy would be a minimal and reasonable editorial position. Looking into other matters concerning the plane crash (including the disappearance of a recording device and the suicide of an air controller) would also make sense. >>>Kathy Ferguson and Bill Shelton. Kathy Ferguson was the ex-wife of Danny Ferguson, the state trooper who arranged Paula Jones' visit to Bill Clinton's suite. She allegedly committed suicide three months after the Jones case was publicized. She was considered a likely witness when it came to trial. A suicide note was found in her home but so were several packed suitcases next to the body. Her fiance, state trooper Bill Shelton, allegedly committed suicide by shooting himself at the gravesite of Kathy Ferguson. -- There are a steady stream of threats during the Clinton years, such as those allegedly relayed to two state troopers by a Democratic official in 1993 that they would be "destroyed" if they spoke to the press, and the phone call from Clinton's ex-security chief Buddy Young warning them not to reveal anything. -- Thomas M. DeFrank and Thomas Galvin of the New York Daily News describe in the Weekly Standard strong-arm tactics used by the Clintonistas against their critics. They write: "The president's impressive people skills and abundant personal charm mask a streak of political cold-bloodedness and score-settling worthy of a Mario Puzo novel. . . If you pose a threat to this president, you're not merely a political adversary -- you're clearly a bimbo, homosexual, homophobe, alcoholic, moron, sexual harasser, crook, dupe, fellow travelers, embezzler, pathological liar, or even murderer. At least that's what every reporter, news editor, bureau chief, or network executive interested in what you have to say will be told."Examples abound. Republican congressional investigators Jim Leach and William Clinger both found themselves being trailed by private detectives. False stories are spread such as the ones claiming that travel office head Billy Dale had been fired after an independent audit found financial irregularities. Editors and journalists are called and warned off sources. Talk show guests are yanked. Paula Jones, Sally Perdue, and other women involved with Clinton get viciously trashed, as have been various Arkansas state troopers. Conclude DeFrank and Galvin: "Enemies have been intimidated, inconvenient truths suppressed, and reputations shattered -- all at negligible cost of the president." And that's just part of the story. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: John Young Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 08:32:41 +0800 To: Ray Arachelian Subject: Re: Can someone look this up? (fwd) Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980129002722.0070cbe4@pop.pipeline.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >Can someone on the list look this up? > >*************************************************************** >If the government has no knowledge of aliens, then why does >Title 14, Section 1211 of the Code of Federal Regulations, >implemented on July 16, 1969, make it illegal for U.S. >citizens to have any contact with extraterrestrials or their >vehicles? Very SETI/UFO-mysterious. Here's what's listed (three times) at: http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/index.html [Code of Federal Regulations] [Title 14, Volume 5, Parts 1200 to end] [Revised as of January 1, 1997] >From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access [CITE: 14CFR1211] [Page 75] TITLE 14--AERONAUTICS AND SPACE CHAPTER V--NATIONAL AERONAUTICS AND SPACE ADMINISTRATION PART 1211--[Reserved] ---------- That's the entire entry. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: attila Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 04:11:58 +0800 To: Jim Choate Subject: Re: Oregon no-knock leads to conflict [CNN] In-Reply-To: <199801281935.NAA08338@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Wed, 28 Jan 1998, Jim Choate wrote: you're absolutely sure they got the identity correct? you're absolutely sure it wasn't TC May? > Forwarded message: > > > OFFICER KILLED, 2 WOUNDED IN OREGON SHOOT-OUT > > > > Map of Oregon January 28, 1998 > > Web posted at: 2:06 p.m. EST (1906 GMT) > > > > PORTLAND, Oregon (AP) -- One officer was killed and two were wounded > > in Portland Tuesday as they forced their way through the door of a > > home that neighbors say was stocked with high-powered weapons. > > > > Police with black body armor and shields surrounded the house and > > wounded the lone suspect. He was taken out three hours later and > > hospitalized with gunshot wounds to the chest and stomach. > > > > The suspect, identified as 37-year-old Steven Dons, was stripped by > > officers and driven away naked and bleeding on the tailgate of an > > armored SWAT van. > > > __________________________________________________________________________ go not unto usenet for advice, for the inhabitants thereof will say: yes, and no, and maybe, and I don't know, and fuck-off. _________________________________________________________________ attila__ To be a ruler of men, you need at least 12 inches.... There is no safety this side of the grave. Never was; never will be. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Eric Cordian Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 10:11:44 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: EPR, Bell, and FTL Bandwidth (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801290055.BAA14039@basement.replay.com> Message-ID: <199801290203.UAA10294@wire.insync.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain An Entity at Replay writes: > So, you agree with Tim May's statement that: >> All that is revealed is a _correlation_, a kind of structure built >> into the Universe. Interesting, but not so weird as it seems. (And >> this is not any kind of "action at one site instantaneously changing >> the state far away." No more so than sending two envelopes out, one >> with a "1" inside and the other with a "0" inside changes things >> instantaneously.....) > You agree with the foolish statement that the behavior of correlated > photons is no more weird than sending out two envelopes? I thought > you had more sense than that. With correlated branch systems, examination of one branch can disclose information about another branch which is currently distant from us. This is no more weird in the quantum mechanical case, than it is in the classical case. The envelope analogy is perfectly appropriate. That's not to say that quantum mechanical systems aren't "weird" in ways that classical systems are not. It's just that this is not one of those areas of weirdness. > How do you explain the violation of Bell's theorem in QM? What is > your nice, cozy, friendly, un-weird explanation? I'm curious whether > you are going to sacrifice locality or reality. Somehow I think > you'll have to go beyond what is necessary to explain the behavior of > envelopes. The wavefunction of the universe is not a physical observable. I do not have to sacrifice causality for physical phemonema to have non-local collapse of the wavefunction when measurements are performed. A satisfactory theory of quantum mechanical measurement does not currently exist, and it has even been conjectured that gravitation may be the sole force immune from quantum mechanical superposition, and that this may be the mechanism behind wavefunction collapse. There are other hypotheses as well, and the experiments to distinguish amongst them have yet to be performed. A correct theory of quantum mechanical measurement will disclose the mechanisms by which things like non-local wavefunction collapse, quantum teleporation, the quantum eraser effect, and other current oddities are mediated. This will undoubtedly involve a deeper understanding of how quantum gravity works, and perhaps even the physics underlying the existence of consciousness itself. However, none of this implies in the least that a physical effect is propagated non-causally across vast distances when a conscious choice is made to measure one of two non-commuting observables for one of a pair of "entangled" particles, which, I believe, is what the current argument is over. -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law" From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Eric Cordian Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 10:28:15 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: EPR, Bell, and FTL Bandwidth (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801290044.SAA10449@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199801290224.UAA10328@wire.insync.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Jim Choate writes: > This is the last I'm going to respond to this. > The photons are 'entangled' which means their states are linked and > co-dependant. The states are no more "co-dependent" than two copies of the same book at different locations on the planet are. The primary difference in the quantum mechanical case is that because of superposition, each might be a mixed state of several books, and only the act of measurement would disclose which one, and that a decision to examine one of several non-commuting observables might be made after the books had been produced and were in transit. This would *NOT* imply in any way that examination of one book had any physical effect on the other, although correlation of measurements made on both books might demonstrate non-local collapse of the QM wavefunction, which is not, and never has been, a physical quantity. I can think of even a more extreme case. Suppose I have the same Barium atom in two laser traps tuned to different excited states and separated by a distance of 1,000 miles. I now have a 50/50 superposition of one state here, and a different state 1000 miles away. Even with the *SAME* particle in two different places, nothing I do to it in one place is detectable by a scientist in its other location, and the only correlations which demonstrate non-local effects require data from measurements from both of them. -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law" From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Anonymous Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 05:17:44 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Quantum teleportation and communication Message-ID: <199801282100.WAA07953@basement.replay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Tim May writes: > Imagine a pair of photons sent in opposite directions. With different > polarizations, but "tangled." Observer A measures a polarization of "1." > > He then knows that Observer B will measure "0." > > All that is revealed is a _correlation_, a kind of structure built into the > Universe. Interesting, but not so weird as it seems. (And this is not any > kind of "action at one site instantaneously changing the state far away." > No more so than sending two envelopes out, one with a "1" inside and the > other with a "0" inside changes things instantaneously.....) > > No signal sending is possible because neither observer can "change" the > polarization of a photon. Tim May knows no more about quantum mechanics than he does about cryptography. He is wrong about the nature of the correlation between the two photons. Bell's theorem shows that if local realism (a technical concept which is hard to deny) holds, then when Observer A changes the way he performs his measurements, what Observer B sees does change. It is completely mistaken to think of the "two envelope" analogy as applying to quantum correlations. There is something much stranger going on here. Don't trust what Tim May writes. He is not only a hypocrite (complaining about chemistry discussions while adding to an equally off-topic physics thread), but a fool as well. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "David E. Smith" Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 06:14:04 +0800 To: BOUSTANI Subject: Re: your mail In-Reply-To: <199801281106.MAA05137@mail.club-internet.fr> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > I learn about you from my teacher. I think he doesn't know you or talk to > you but he tell us about how to cracked windows 95 .pwl or NT. So i'm > interested. By far, the easiest way to crack Windows 95 (or NT) is to put the CD in the microwave. Watch it snap, crackle, and pop. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Bruce Schneier Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 12:32:10 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: RE: Announcement: RPK InvisiMail released on 12 Jan, 1998 In-Reply-To: <199801280047.QAA09732@comsec.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain A bunch of us cryptographers would really like to attack RPK, but the documents on the website are slippery enough to make it difficult. There is enough unspecified for them to sneak away from any analysis. If someone were to reverse engineer the RPK cryptosystem from this product, I would really appreciate it. Bruce ********************************************************************** Bruce Schneier, President, Counterpane Systems Phone: 612-823-1098 101 E Minnehaha Parkway, Minneapolis,MN 55419 Fax: 612-823-1590 http://www.counterpane.com From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 05:47:49 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: Planetary rovers, SETI and other musings, was Re: update.356 (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199801272132.PAA01922@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199801282139.WAA13688@basement.replay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Tim May wrote: > Nothing in quantum teleportation has been shown to propagate signals > faster than light. (If you don't believe me, look into it. Start by > reading the FTL discussions about Bell's Theorem.) True, but there are some other interesting effects which could be explained by FTL communication, such as the fact that light diffracted through two slits shows an interference pattern, even though one of the slits is farther away than the light travel time from where the pattern appears. Then there's the fact that light appears to propegate faster in a region of space 'starved' of virtual particles by the casimir effect. That one is a favorite among warp drive theorists. :) From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Anonymous Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 13:38:56 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: No Subject Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain What was the URL again? I got that at work and want to re-visit site tonite at home. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Anonymous Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 09:01:58 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: EPR, Bell, and FTL Bandwidth (fwd) Message-ID: <199801290055.BAA14039@basement.replay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Eric Cordian writes: > Anonymous writes: > > > Tim May knows no more about quantum mechanics than he does about > > cryptography. He is wrong about the nature of the correlation between > > the two photons. > > Tim is right. Please put this lovely cone-shaped hat on and sit on > the stool in the corner. So, you agree with Tim May's statement that: > All that is revealed is a _correlation_, a kind of structure built into the > Universe. Interesting, but not so weird as it seems. (And this is not any > kind of "action at one site instantaneously changing the state far away." > No more so than sending two envelopes out, one with a "1" inside and the > other with a "0" inside changes things instantaneously.....) You agree with the foolish statement that the behavior of correlated photons is no more weird than sending out two envelopes? I thought you had more sense than that. Are you under the impression that opening envelopes can in any way violate Bell's inequality, as measuring correlated photons can? Please! How do you explain the violation of Bell's theorem in QM? What is your nice, cozy, friendly, un-weird explanation? I'm curious whether you are going to sacrifice locality or reality. Somehow I think you'll have to go beyond what is necessary to explain the behavior of envelopes. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 09:04:27 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: References to FTL tunneling experiment In-Reply-To: <199801272132.PAA01922@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199801290100.CAA14836@basement.replay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Phelix wrote: > I remember seeing on one of those science specials on The learning channel > (or mabye the Discovery channel) that a professor did figure out > (accidentally) how to send information faster than light. The only thing I > remember about it was the the signal was some kind of music. http://i02aix1.desy.de/~mpoessel/nimtzeng.html http://www.npl.washington.edu/AV/altvw75.html http://www.uni-koeln.de/~abb11/ http://www.aei-potsdam.mpg.de/~mpoessel/nimtzeng.html http://www.fringeware.com/msg/1996/msg00155.html From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Anonymous Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 12:23:20 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: State of the Union Address Message-ID: <199801290415.FAA08964@basement.replay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >Get a Chemisty 101/2 book. You must have been in the bone head chemistry >class. I think you mean `a bone head chemistry class.' My old college book doesn't have it either, and I took two semesters of the stuff... From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Bill Stewart Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 14:14:12 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: patent office and key recovery Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980129053039.00798ae0@popd.ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Steve Bellovin posted this to cryptography: --------------------------------------------------------------------- Today's NY Times had an article on how the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office is gearing up for electronic filing of patent and trademark applications (http://www.nytimes.com/library/cyber/week/012698patents.html). Since patent applications here are confidential, filings must be encrypted. And of course, one of the things holding up deployment -- of a system where a government agency is the legitimate recipient of the message -- is the "need" for key recovery. "The agency wants to include a "key recovery" system in the software in case the encryption has to be broken." The mind boggles. ---------------------------------------------- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: jim@mentat.com (Jim Gillogly) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 01:57:25 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Re: Chaining ciphers Message-ID: <9801291747.AA26773@mentat.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Tim May skribis: > I don't think 3DES is weak, but chaining-in additional ciphers can't hurt. > (Just a minor slowdown in encipherment speed, presumably not important for > some critical uses.) Yes, that's definitely better for high-confidence long-term archival stuff than relying on one cipher. Carl Ellison's suggestion was DES | tran | nDES | tran | DES, where "tran" is an unkeyed large-block transposition. One word of caution (which should be obvious, but can't hurt to repeat it): if you chain ciphers (e.g. DES | IDEA | 3DES | CAST | Blowfish), be sure to use separate keys for each of them; otherwise breaking the last one will give the key to the whole lot. BTW, I went to look this up in the Cyphernomicon (I sorta think it's reffed in there), but the first 4 sites I saw on Altavista were all dead-end broken links. The Web's ripping... what's the current Preferred URL? Jim Gillogly Trewesday, 8 Solmath S.R. 1998, 17:22 12.19.4.15.18, 9 Edznab 16 Muan, Third Lord of Night From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Ray Arachelian Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 22:55:02 +0800 To: cypherpunks MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 19:08:27 -0500 From: Salvatore DeNaro To: Ray Arachelian Subject: More reasons why Nynex is evil... http://www.infoworld.com/cgi-bin/displayNew.pl?/metcalfe/metcalfe.htm From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Adam Shostack Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 23:49:12 +0800 To: sunder@sundernet.com (Ray Arachelian) Subject: Re: Can someone look this up? (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199801291536.KAA25295@homeport.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode The UScode online, searchable, indexed. Way cool reference material. Ray Arachelian wrote: | ---------- Forwarded message ---------- | Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 21:48:14 -0500 | From: Salvatore Denaro | To: 'Ray Arachelian' | Subject: Can someone look this up? | | Can someone on the list look this up? | | *************************************************************** | If the government has no knowledge of aliens, then why does | Title 14, Section 1211 of the Code of Federal Regulations, | implemented on July 16, 1969, make it illegal for U.S. | citizens to have any contact with extraterrestrials or their | vehicles? | | -- "It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -Hume From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 02:51:26 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Persistent URLs Considered Useful In-Reply-To: <9801291747.AA26773@mentat.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 9:47 AM -0800 1/29/98, Jim Gillogly wrote: >BTW, I went to look this up in the Cyphernomicon (I sorta think it's >reffed in there), but the first 4 sites I saw on Altavista were all >dead-end broken links. The Web's ripping... what's the current >Preferred URL? I have no idea. Sometimes I find a site has it, sometimes not. (I'm not interested in keeping my tens of megs of postings on a Web page. Sosumi.) The issue of "URL decay" is a very serious one, affecting directly the use of the Web for footnote citations, legal citations, references, etc. Scientific or academic articles cannot reliably cite URLs, as they are likely to decay or vanish or become corrupted over a matter of months, let alone the years or decades that a technical or academic paper is expected to last and be read. Call it an archivist's nightmare. A couple of years ago I floated an idea out to a handful of Bay Area friends and Cypherpunks, about an idea for an "Eternity.com" service which would act as a kind of "vanity press" for authors, professors, researchers, etc., who wanted to know that a document and URL would have a long persistence, possibly an indefinite persistence. (At the time I used the "Eternity" name I was not consciously aware of Ross Anderson's work on his "Eternity" system, though I may have inadvertently been inspired by his name, which I may have heard on the list or elsewhere. My notion was a bit different from either his Eternity system or any of the recent variants, but the name was based on the same idea of perpetual storage. However, unlike my BlackNet idea, this particular "Eternity" was not focussed on contraband, illegal, controversial, or black market information being distributed and preserved. In fact, the expected customers were mundane academics and corporate users...or vanity users...anyone, basically, who wanted to know that a paper or document of theirs could be reliably cited by others and that the citations would not exhibit the "URL decay" so commonly seen today.) Like I said, I sent this to a handful of Bay Area friends and Cypherpunks, mainly to see if they had any comments or interest. I chose at that time not to send my idea out to the Cypherpunks list, as I had some thoughts about maybe trying to commercialize the idea.... However, I haven't, so I may as well send this idea along. Here is the piece I sent out in late '95: Return-Path: tcmay@got.net Received: from [205.199.118.202] (tcmay.got.net [205.199.118.202]) by you.got.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA05317 for ; Fri, 29 Dec 1995 14:30:25 -0800 Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 14:30:25 -0800 X-Sender: tcmay@mail.got.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tcmay@got.net From: tcmay@got.net (Timothy C. May) Subject: Eternity.com announces "Eternal URLs"--version 1.02 X-UIDL: 820276233.000 ***Press Release*** Santa Cruz, CA. Eternity, Inc. is pleased to announce the availability of its permanent Uniform Resource Locater (URL) facility. For a fee, Eternity will store a file for a year, for several years, or for "eternity." Eternity will ensure that backups are escrowed in the event of interruptions at Eternity or even the demise of Eternity as an entity. Visit us at http://www.eternity.com/~products/ ***End*** Well, not really. But an example makes a point succinctly. There's a growing need for "eternal URLs," URLs that have enough persistence to last for a very long time, possibly for several decades. (And with declining storage costs, "several years" implies "eternity" only costs 10% more.) Here are some reasons: * Today's URLs are transient, fluid. Accounts go away and the URL no longer works, e.g., the large number of "Can't access" errors when Web surfing. (Many of these errors are because a server or account has been deliberately been taken down, for whatever reasons. Often because of overloading, which is a separable issue from the issue of permanence--overloading can be handled with access fees, for example.) * Web citations. Michael Froomkin, and others, have been raising the issue of using the Web for legal citations. A real problem if the citations don't persist for very long. (And I started seriously thinking about this Web transience issue when I wrote a reply to him pointing out the utter transience of most URLs, the "decay time" of valid URLs and how tough it would be to rely on the Web for citations which are intended to be valid for years or even decades.) * Many links have a "single-point failure" built in. Let me give an example: - my Cyphernomicon exists in an HTML version (nicely done by J. Rochkind) at the URL "http://www.oberlin.edu/~brchkind/cyphernomicon/". - lots of other Web pages have links to this URL. In fact, nearly every page that mentions the Cyphernomicon points to this URL! - so, what happens when Jonathan's account--at Oberlin I presume--goes away? What happens when he gets tired of maintaining it, or graduates, or whatever? - answer: all the pages that point to it now come up only with the typical errors. - it's unlikely that all or even most of the pages with pointers to this now-gone URL will update them. I call this "Web decay." Thus, we see the increasing breakage of links. (I don't know about you folks, but in my Web surfing I find more and more links broken every day....) A market fix might be the following: - a site operator offers "archival" storage, perhaps/probably for a fee - files could be placed in this archival storage for some fee for a given amount of time. (Given the declining cost of storage, a user might be able to economically buy "permanent" storage, sort of a "discounted future value" approach. Thus, I might pay $20 to store the Cyphernomicon for a year, $30 for 3 years, and $50 for "eternity." - he may also charge digital cash for access (a separable issue, but worth mentioning) - example URL: "http://www.eternity.com/~cypherpunks/cyphernomicon/" - the site, "eternity.com" in this example, would ensure that the document remains mounted and available for years, decades, etc. This could be done by using backup machines, copies of optical disks at services which agree (for a fee) to keep backups and mount them in the event of disruption/bankruptcy/etc. of "eternity.com," and so on. (Obviously a fee structure could include issues of file size, latency of access, policies for public hits on the site, etc.) - services like this (and I expect more to appear) may have cross-backup provisions, or arrangements to take over the good name and good will, and of course the files, of services which vanish or go bankrupt. (All sorts of messy details, but familiar to lawyers handling escrow matters.) - there are obvious similarities with "archival storage" services (the "data vaults" and salt mine companies). In this case, the archival storage also has access via the Web attached. (And yes, an obvious wrinkle is to sell archival storage per se, with access a separate issue: access could be via passwords/crypto, or via paid access, URLs, etc. All separable. But the "market focus" on "eternal URLs" is a powerful focus, likely to quickly generate a fair amount of business.) (Strategies for site-mirroring of URLs, where the same URL actually involves multiple sites, is another approach. I'm not following that area too closely, so I won't discuss it here. It may be a workable alternative.) Another alternative is for services to arise which act as redirectors of Web accesses. Without actually storing the Cyphernomicon file, for example, they tell users where it actually is. (Not that much different from Infoseek, DejaNews, Alta Vista, etc., except that those services merely index existing pages, which may have huge numbers of corrupt links, while the service I am proposing would take active steps to ensure valid copies can be accessed...probably too much work to be economical, which is why I prefer the "Eternity.com" model: the owner of a URL, or an interested party who wishes to pay to store a copy, takes active steps to ensure a permanent copy exists. There are all sorts of wrinkles of this idea, such as: -- newer versions of a file, e.g., the "Cyphernomicon v.1.5," are either stored separately, with pointers added to the first file, or are appended. I favor the "pure archive" approach of always having the earlier versions stored. ("Once stored, it is never forgotten.") For example: "http://www.eternity.com/~cypherpunks/cyphernomicon/0.666" (the original) "http://www.eternity.com/~cypherpunks/cyphernomicon/1.5" "http://www.eternity.com/~cypherpunks/cyphernomicon/2.0" ...etc.... -- obviously files could be stored in various ways, depending on fees per storage and fees per access. Older versions might be archived on DAT (or its 2005 equivalent), more recent versions might be on DVDs, CD-ROMs, etc., and heavily-accessed files might be on magnetic disk. All a matter of pricing, usage, market issues. -- jukeboxes of CD-ROMs, DATs, and DVDs should make storage of "archived Web sites" very cheap. -- such a service could also be a protection against political pressure: once a file is stored, perhaps in multiple national jurisdicitions, or perhaps even in unknown jurisdictions via Web mixes, the file could not be removed. -- digital timestamps and other hashes of the database could be published, a la Haber and Stornetta's Surety service, to ensure that that the database had not been tampered with. -- secure data havens, such as Swiss banks (maybe not so secure, but you get the point) could store copies of the files, perhaps on very slow media. Enough to ensure eternal storage. Underground vaults, salt mines, the usual shtick. I'll close for now. Could "Eternity.com" be the new Westlaw? (For you nonlawyers, Westlaw publishes books of court cases and rulings, and is the de facto place for references...they make a tidy profit by licensing their system. Cyberspace legal thinkers are looking at Web alternatives.) Food for thought (and grounds for further research, as Dave Emory would say). --Tim May We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed. ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, tcmay@got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^756839 - 1 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Anonymous Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 19:06:46 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: EPR, Bell, and FTL Bandwidth (fwd) Message-ID: <199801291045.LAA19417@basement.replay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Eric Cordian writes: > An Entity at Replay writes: > > > You agree with the foolish statement that the behavior of correlated > > photons is no more weird than sending out two envelopes? I thought > > you had more sense than that. > > With correlated branch systems, examination of one branch can disclose > information about another branch which is currently distant from us. > This is no more weird in the quantum mechanical case, than it is in > the classical case. The envelope analogy is perfectly appropriate. > > That's not to say that quantum mechanical systems aren't "weird" in > ways that classical systems are not. It's just that this is not one > of those areas of weirdness. It's much worse than this. The violation of Bell's inequality implies that changes to the basis used to measure one particle cause changes in the observed state of the remote particle. Of course this can't be used to transmit information; we all agree on that. The remote particle has a random orientation. But the point is, Bell's theorem shows that the remote orientation depends on how the local measurement is done. This is not a matter of simply perceiving or deducing what the conditions are at the remote branch, as in the envelope case. A better analogy would be an envelope which could be opened in two ways, from the top or from the bottom. If you open from the top then the remote envelope will have the same contents as the local one, while if you open from the bottom then the remote envelope will have the opposite contents. In each case the contents are random; the remote observer has no idea whether you opened from the top or the bottom. But somehow your decision on how to open the envelope (what basis to measure the photon) is changing how these globally separated subsystems relate to each other. (This analogy isn't perfect, either, because it might seem that magic changes to the local contents could make the envelope work. Bell's reasoning shows that it is the remote photon's state which must be altered by the choice of how to measure the local one.) This is the fundamental flaw in the envelope analogy, which makes it seriously flawed and misleading. It gives the impression that some kind of hidden variables (the contents within the envelope) can easily solve the problem, when nothing could be further from the truth. It papers over one of the most mysterious facets of quantum mechanics, by making it appear to be mundane. It represents a fundamentally mistaken way to view remote correlated particles. > > How do you explain the violation of Bell's theorem in QM? What is > > your nice, cozy, friendly, un-weird explanation? I'm curious whether > > you are going to sacrifice locality or reality. Somehow I think > > you'll have to go beyond what is necessary to explain the behavior of > > envelopes. > > The wavefunction of the universe is not a physical observable. I do > not have to sacrifice causality for physical phemonema to have > non-local collapse of the wavefunction when measurements are > performed. A satisfactory theory of quantum mechanical measurement > does not currently exist, and it has even been conjectured that > gravitation may be the sole force immune from quantum mechanical > superposition, and that this may be the mechanism behind wavefunction > collapse. There are other hypotheses as well, and the experiments to > distinguish amongst them have yet to be performed. > > A correct theory of quantum mechanical measurement will disclose the > mechanisms by which things like non-local wavefunction collapse, > quantum teleporation, the quantum eraser effect, and other current > oddities are mediated. This will undoubtedly involve a deeper > understanding of how quantum gravity works, and perhaps even the > physics underlying the existence of consciousness itself. OK, so you can't explain it. Fine, it is indeed a mysterious phenomenon, and no doubt you are correct that more insights will come in the future. Now, compare this with the envelope analogy Tim May offered: >> All that is revealed is a _correlation_, a kind of structure built >> into the Universe. Interesting, but not so weird as it seems. (And >> this is not any kind of "action at one site instantaneously changing >> the state far away." No more so than sending two envelopes out, one >> with a "1" inside and the other with a "0" inside changes things >> instantaneously.....) Are you at all tempted to resort to such language in trying to understand how the envelopes could work? Is it puzzling how we could open one here and find a 1 and suddenly know that there is a 0 in the remote envelope? Do we need to learn more about how measurements of envelope contents work before we can begin to tackle this thorny philosophical conundrum? Of course not! The envelope case is transparently obvious. There are no puzzles here, no complexities, no confusion. The only confusion is in the minds of those who think that correlated envelopes have anything to do with correlated photons, or that the hidden variables which perfectly well explain what is happening with the envelopes shed any light whatsoever on the workings of nonlocal QM systems. > However, none of this implies in the least that a physical effect is > propagated non-causally across vast distances when a conscious choice > is made to measure one of two non-commuting observables for one of a > pair of "entangled" particles, which, I believe, is what the current > argument is over. No, the current argument is over how much of a jackass Tim May is. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Bill Stewart Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 04:16:56 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Finding the Cyphernomicon In-Reply-To: <9801291747.AA26773@mentat.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980129120914.007c5530@popd.ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >BTW, I went to look this up in the Cyphernomicon (I sorta think it's >reffed in there), but the first 4 sites I saw on Altavista were all >dead-end broken links. The Web's ripping... what's the current >Preferred URL? First hit I got at hotbot was the standard one http://www.oberlin.edu/~brchkind/cyphernomicon/ and it seems to work fine. Also http://yak.net/CYPHERNOMICON.gz works. Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jon Leonard Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 05:44:28 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: Persistent URLs Considered Useful In-Reply-To: <9801291747.AA26773@mentat.com> Message-ID: <19980129133545.11646@divcom.umop-ap.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain On Thu, Jan 29, 1998 at 10:44:19AM -0800, Tim May wrote: > At 9:47 AM -0800 1/29/98, Jim Gillogly wrote: > > >BTW, I went to look this up in the Cyphernomicon (I sorta think it's > >reffed in there), but the first 4 sites I saw on Altavista were all > >dead-end broken links. The Web's ripping... what's the current > >Preferred URL? > > I have no idea. Sometimes I find a site has it, sometimes not. (I'm not > interested in keeping my tens of megs of postings on a Web page. Sosumi.) I've copied the HTML'd version at http://www.slimy.com/crypto/cyphernomicon/. Barring catastrope, it'll stay there until the singularity. > The issue of "URL decay" is a very serious one, affecting directly the use > of the Web for footnote citations, legal citations, references, etc. > Scientific or academic articles cannot reliably cite URLs, as they are > likely to decay or vanish or become corrupted over a matter of months, let > alone the years or decades that a technical or academic paper is expected > to last and be read. Call it an archivist's nightmare. [skip to discussion of a market solution] > A market fix might be the following: > > - a site operator offers "archival" storage, perhaps/probably for a fee > > - files could be placed in this archival storage for some fee for a given > amount of time. (Given the declining cost of storage, a user might be able > to economically buy "permanent" storage, sort of a "discounted future > value" approach. Thus, I might pay $20 to store the Cyphernomicon for a > year, $30 for 3 years, and $50 for "eternity." > > - he may also charge digital cash for access (a separable issue, but worth > mentioning) Another model would be advertising supported. In this model, a business collects important documents, sources, and so on, and makes them generally available. A search engine at the site home helps index it, and provides banner advertisements as well. The advertisement supported model works for the search engines, and this would have the advantage of avoiding both broken links and useless drivel. Free access and free submission may be necessary to get both enough documents and users to be profitable. [snip] > --Tim May Jon Leonard From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Declan McCullagh Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 07:40:08 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: FBI tells Congress encryption "is a critical problem" Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 13:46:48 -0800 (PST) From: Declan McCullagh To: politech@vorlon.mit.edu Subject: FBI tells Congress encryption "is a critical problem" ******** The nation's top cops aren't happy about Americans using data-scrambling software to shield their correspondence from prying eyes. Today the deputy director of the FBI told the Senate Intelligence committee that encryption "is a critical problem" that Congress needs to solve -- presumably by banning email and other programs that his G-men can't crack. (http://cgi.pathfinder.com/netly/opinion/0,1042,1385,00.html). Bob Bryant warned the committee that "the widespread use of robust non-key recovery encryption will ultimately devastate our ability to fight crime and prevent terrorism." Which is precisely what Sen. Bob Kerrey (D-Neb) claims he's concerned about. He said "if we want to make the American people continue to feel safe," the National Security Agency and the FBI "have to be able to somehow deal with not just the complexity of signals, but increasingly encrypted signals that are impossible for us to break." Not surprisingly, the question of why the FBI and NSA should have the ability to listen in on any conversation was left unasked. --By Declan McCullagh/Washington (declan@well.com) From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 05:08:03 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Senate probes Microsoft [CNN] Message-ID: <199801292105.PAA14122@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > By SCOTT SONNER > Associated Press Writer > > WASHINGTON (AP) -- Microsoft, already in trouble with the > JusticeDepartment for alleged antitrust violations, also is the target > ofa Senate Judiciary Committee investigation, a Senate aide saidtoday. > > "They are definitely investigating Microsoft," said TonyWilliams, > chief of staff to Sen. Slade Gorton, R-Wash. "They aremeeting with > Microsoft. They are talking with them about antitrustmatters." > > Microsoft had no immediate comment today but Williams said > thecommittee has asked Microsoft to voluntary turn over > documentsregarding its business practices. > > The committee for some time has been reviewing the activities > ofMicrosoft and other companies in regard to how antitrust laws > applyto the Internet. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Declan McCullagh Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 08:01:46 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: SF Chron article on Feinstein and Internet Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain A reporter (jswartz@sfgate.com) is writing an article about Dianne Feinstein and her puzzling stance on high tech issues, given the state she represents. She's taken very odd positions on encryption, Net-gambling, privacy regulations that put burdens on business, and of course her bomb-making ban. If you have Feinstein stories or opinions, I'm sure he'd love to hear from you. -Declan From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: SteffenHo@aol.com Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 05:04:27 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: hackers and minick Message-ID: <685d8d88.34d0eafa@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain In a message dated 98-01-29 15:44:07 EST, kes21@chat.ru writes: << Hello there!!! I send this letter because i want to know anything about hackers Kevin Mitnick please send more information about these topics my E-mail kes21@chat.ru >> www.mitnick.com or www.kevinmitnick.com From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Anonymous Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 09:15:08 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: Chris Lewis's death? In-Reply-To: <199801152323.SAA14920@panix2.panix.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Information Security (if that is his real name) writes: > vznuri@netcom.com "Vladimir Z. Nuri" (nym for Dr. Dim) You mean, Vlad is Larry Detweiler and Dmitri Vulis in the same time? Hmmm ... From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 10:42:55 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Govt. to overhaul domain names [CNN] Message-ID: <199801300240.UAA15427@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > GOVERNMENT TO UNVEIL PLAN TO OVERHAUL INTERNET DOMAIN NAMES > > graphic January 29, 1998 > Web posted at: 6:53 p.m. EDT (1853 GMT) > > WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Clinton administration's eagerly awaited > proposal for overhauling the Internet's naming system and phasing > out U.S. government involvement will be released Friday, the > Commerce Department said Thursday. > > The department's National Telecommunications and Information > Administration unit said it will post the plan on the World Wide Web > at http://www.ntia.doc.gov. > > The plan, originally expected in November, seeks to resolve the > controversy over management of some of the Internet's most basic > functions, including the assignment and registration of names for > Web sites. [text deleted] ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 10:43:19 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Michigan upset - children fingerprinted w/o permission [CNN] Message-ID: <199801300241.UAA15465@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > > CHILDREN'S FINGERPRINTING RILES MICHIGAN PARENTS > > fingerprint graphic January 29, 1998 > Web posted at: 3:51 p.m. EST (2051 GMT) > > DETROIT (AP) -- Parents and legal experts have identified a problem > with Michigan standardized testing -- 122,000 fifth-graders provided > their fingerprints without permission. > > The public-school children had to fill out a "Fingerprint > Investigation Journal" as part of the science segment on the > Michigan Educational Assessment Program. > > "It's offensive," said Andrea Lang of St. Clair Shores, who learned > that her 10-year-old daughter provided fingerprints for the test > last week. "It's an invasion of privacy. Only criminals get their > fingerprints taken." > > The fingerprint journal was merely a hands-on experiment designed to > make the science portion of the test more interesting, Peter Bunton > of the MEAP office, said Wednesday. > > State law says that with few exceptions, children's fingerprints > can't be obtained without parents' permission. Bunton said he was > unaware of the law. [text deleted] ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Sources Briefings & eJOURNAL, DSO Inc." (by way ofSteve Schear) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 06:48:22 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: DEBATE IN THE INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain ********IF YOU WISH TO BE REMOVED FROM THIS MAILING LIST, PLEASE REPLY WITH SUBJECT: "REMOVE"************ FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: INFORMATION CONTACT:Cynthia Johnston 415 731-1905, pr@dso.com REPORT IN SOURCES BRIEFINGS STIRS HEATED DEBATE IN INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY San Francisco, CA. SOURCES BRIEFINGS, a newsletter delivering raw intelligence, reported recently that CIA Inspector General Fredrick Hitz has declared open source intelligence ěa waste of time and moneyî -- and hit a raw nerve in the intelligence community. The CIA Inspector General, speaking about the CIA's role in todayís intelligence structure, admitted that he ěfeels threatened by the presence of those in private industry and in government who are pursuing intelligence in new ways. He says that private industry is actually ahead of the CIA in technologies such as satellite imaging and encryption,î according to the article in the current issue of SOURCES BRIEFINGS (www.dso.com). ěEven though Hitz says he finds the new computer encryption and information systems ëincredibly terrifying,í he dismisses open source intelligence, inside and outside of the government agencies, as merely ëa collection of newspaper storiesí on various issues...î SOURCES BRIEFINGS subscribers in the intelligence community were quick to challenge Hitzí assertions. A senior Pentagon official with access to the Secretary of Defense stated, ěMr. Hitz may have revealed more than he intended regarding the mindset that often holds the Intelligence Community (IC) hostage. Secrets can be addictive and like potato chips it is hard just to have one. It is easy to binge on them and end up without a well balanced intelligence diet. The IC gets addicted to its own secrets and [gets] fat on ëclassifiedí self-importance.î Robert Steele, CEO of Open Source Solutions Inc., joined the battle saying, ěWe are at a very important cross-roads in the history and maturity of the U.S. intelligence community... The Commission on Intelligence found that its access to open sources is ëseverely deficientí and should be a top priority... ěOpen sources are of proven value in tip-off, in guiding secret collection, in placing secret information in context, and in providing cover for secretly obtained information which must be shared with coalition partners to whom secret sources and methods cannot or should not be revealed.î An NSA officer on loan to the military said, ěThis guy's parochial, narrow-minded, elitist thinking (ëLeave it to the patrician professionals, you fumbling amateursí) perfectly embodies what is, and has for a long time, been wrong with the CIA. I suspect that one reason for this gentleman's self-admitted fear is that the CIA doesn't really have that many truly clandestine sources, and he's afraid people will learn just how much OSINT is a better value for dollars expended.î Responses to Hitzí remarks continue to pour in to SOURCES and the editors are preparing to devote space exclusively to this debate. A sample of SOURCES BRIEFINGS, as well as subscription information can be obtained online at http://www.dso.com or by calling 1-888-8-DSO-COM (1-888-8-376-266). For further information, or to set up interviews with SOURCESí seasoned investigative journalists, intelligence experts and banking specialists, please contact Cynthia Johnston at 415 731-1905 or at pr@dso.com. ### From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "=?KOI8-R?Q?=EF=E5=ED_=F0=CF=CC=D8=DA=CF=D7=C1=D4=C5=CC=D8?=" Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 04:22:42 +0800 To: Subject: Re: hackers and minick Message-ID: <199801292004.XAA16433@chat.ru> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Hello there!!! I send this letter because i want to know anything about hackers Kevin Mitnick please send more information about these topics my E-mail kes21@chat.ru From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Anonymous Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 13:10:00 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: The source code of corrected RC2 Message-ID: <0fe5fadc61be81f09e058b9e6ca24c07@anon.efga.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain There was a mistake in the source code of RC2 that I did a mailbox on January 21 '1998. The following is the source code of corrected RC2. RC2 C++ source code #include #include void RC2Keyschedule::schedule( unsigned short K[64], const unsigned char L[128], unsigned T8, unsigned TM ) { unsigned char x; unsigned i; static const unsigned char PITABLE[256] = { 217,120,249,196, 25,221,181,237, 40,233,253,121, 74,160,216,157, 198,126, 55,131, 43,118, 83,142, 98, 76,100,136, 68,139,251,162, 23,154, 89,245,135,179, 79, 19, 97, 69,109,141, 9,129,125, 50, 189,143, 64,235,134,183,123, 11,240,149, 33, 34, 92,107, 78,130, 84,214,101,147,206, 96,178, 28,115, 86,192, 20,167,140,241,220, 18,117,202, 31, 59,190,228,209, 66, 61,212, 48,163, 60,182, 38, 111,191, 14,218, 70,105, 7, 87, 39,242, 29,155,188,148, 67, 3, 248, 17,199,246,144,239, 62,231, 6,195,213, 47,200,102, 30,215, 8,232,234,222,128, 82,238,247,132,170,114,172, 53, 77,106, 42, 150, 26,210,113, 90, 21, 73,116, 75,159,208, 94, 4, 24,164,236, 194,224, 65,110, 15, 81,203,204, 36,145,175, 80,161,244,112, 57, 153,124, 58,133, 35,184,180,122,252, 2, 54, 91, 37, 85,151, 49, 45, 93,250,152,227,138,146,174, 5,223, 41, 16,103,108,186,201, 211, 0,230,207,225,158,168, 44, 99, 22, 1, 63, 88,226,137,169, 13, 56, 52, 27,171, 51,255,176,187, 72, 12, 95,185,177,205, 46, 197,243,219, 71,229,165,156,119, 10,166, 32,104,254,127,193,173 }; assert(len > 0 && len <= 128); assert(bits <= 1024); if (!bits) bits = 1024; memcpy(xkey, key, len); for (i = 0; i < 128; i++) { L[i] = PITABLE[L[i-1] + L[i-T]]; } T8 = (T1+7) >> 3; TM = 255 MOD 2^(8 + T1 - 8*T8); L[128-T8] = PITABLE[L[128-T8] & TM]; for (i = 0; i < 127-T8; i++) { L[i] = PITABLE[L[i+1] XOR L[i+T8]]; }; i = 63; K[i] = L[2*i] + 256*L[2*i+1]; }; void RC2Encryption::ProcessBlock( const unsigned short K[64], ) { unsigned R3, R2, R1, R0, i; for (i = 0; i < 16; i++) { R0 += (R1 & ~R3) + (R2 & R3) + K[4*i+0]; R0 = R0 << 1; R1 += (R2 & ~R0) + (R3 & R0) + K[4*i+1]; R1 = R1 << 2; R2 += (R3 & ~R1) + (R0 & R1) + K[4*i+2]; R2 = R2 << 3; R3 += (R0 & ~R2) + (R1 & R2) + K[4*i+3]; R3 = R3 << 5; if (i == 4 || i == 10) { R0 += K[R3 & 63]; R1 += K[R0 & 63]; R2 += K[R1 & 63]; R3 += K[R2 & 63]; } } void RC2Decryption::ProcessBlock( const unsigned short K[64], ) { unsigned R3, R2, R1, R0, i; for (i = 0; i < 16; i++) { R3 = R3 << 5; R3 += (R0 & ~R2) + (R1 & R2) + K[4*i-3]; R2 = R2 << 3; R2 += (R3 & ~R1) + (R0 & R1) + K[4*i-2]; R1 = R1 << 2; R1 += (R2 & ~R0) + (R3 & R0) + K[4*i-1]; R0 = R0 << 1; R0 += (R1 & ~R3) + (R2 & R3) + K[4*i-0]; if (i == 4 || i == 10) { R3 -= K[R2 & 63]; R2 -= K[R1 & 63]; R1 -= K[R0 & 63]; R0 -= K[R3 & 63]; } } From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: ulf@fitug.de (Ulf =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=F6ller?=) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 09:38:46 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: patent office and key recovery In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980129053039.00798ae0@popd.ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > "The agency wants to include a "key recovery" system in the > software in case the encryption has to be broken." > >The mind boggles. The Patent Office is obliged to submit all patent applications to the spooks for review (as patent attorney Axel Horns pointed out on another list). So there is little "need" for "recovery" even from the government point of view, other than getting people to use key escrow. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 16:45:25 +0800 To: freedom-knights@jetcafe.org Subject: Re: Kooks and their Kookies In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980128133516.009da320@labg30> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > I have used Eric's Cookie Jar proxy to filter out cookies (it's located at > http://www.lne.com/ericm/cookie_jar/ ) and modified it to replace > advertisement images with a small jpeg image of a tin of spam. (Cookie > Jar's behavior is to simply close the connection which results in a > "broken" icon in my browser. The user is unable to discern the difference > between a broken picture vs. a piece of intentionally ignored spam.) I did > it by returning the spam can instead of an advertising banner when > requested, but I probably could have accomplished the same thing by > modifying the incoming HTML to have an IMG SRC of Junkbuster, which I've been playing with, too has just a list of URL patterns that are blocked. When it encounters such an URL, it displays this hardcoded spiel: char CBLOCK[] = "HTTP/1.0 202 Request for blocked URL\n" "Pragma: no-cache\n" "Last-Modified: Thu Jul 31, 1997 07:42:22 pm GMT\n" "Expires: Thu Jul 31, 1997 07:42:22 pm GMT\n" "Content-Type: text/html\n\n" "\n" "\n" "Internet Junkbuster: Request for blocked URL\n" "\n" WHITEBG "
" "" BANNER "" "
" "\n" "\n" ; Notice something unpleasant!!! See the 2 %s's? They are filled with 1) the URL you tried to access, 2) the pattern from the blockfile that matched. But they're not just displayed in your browser; only if you click on the junkbuster logo, they are passed to a cgi script at the junkbusters site, which displays them and possibly logs them. Not nice at all. I'd much prefer a filtering proxy that allowed different actions for different patterns in the block file: at the very least, the choices should be "404 not found", "403 verbotten", a 1x1 jpg, and a user-specified replacement text/url. > http://localhost/spam.jpg. I was really trying to write code to eliminate > the entire spam anchor, but found that identifying the matching start and > end of the spam anchor (in PERL) was more work than it was worth, and was > breaking some HTML. The ability to edit the incoming text and pictures to delete embedded ads would be awfully nice. Consider for example the html dynamically generated by wired's cgi script when you access http://stocks.hotbox.com. (take a look at it). Wouldn't it be nice if the proxy could be told to delete or replace all the text between and ??? Occasionally an ad is embedded in a picture together with some useful information. Take a look at http://www.bloomberg.com/gifs/iview.gif. it has both useful information that should be displayed and sponsor informaion that should be mercilessly censored - replaced by a user-specified graphic or at least a black rectangle. > Anyway, yes, keep posting your lists of evil URLs. I have no moral problem > with trashing those unwanted ads. Instead of spamming the mailing list, I've put up a web page at http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/6354 (let's see if they pull the plug on it) > >Would there be any interest if I put an anootated netscape cookie file > >(cypherpunks cookie potluck) someplace like geocitie.com? I have also placed some cookies for sharing on them same web site. > >Also a composite blockfile for junkbusters and other filtering proxies. > > > >A really neat feature for ad-filtering proxies would be to be able to > >place a specified picture (or at least a black rectangle) over a jpg or > >gif file being received from a URL that matches a specified pattern. > >I'm not sufficiently handy with graphics file formats to tell how easy > >this would be. Death to the Usenet Cabal! --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Voyeur@generalmedia.com Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 16:01:15 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Penthouse Virtual Voyeur Message-ID: <199801300753.CAA19517@host3.generalmedia.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Thank you! 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See Them Now FREE FREE FREE ... http://www.penthousemag.com/sex/ Terri Peake Amy Lynn Baxter Alexus Winston Hyapatia Lee Justine Delahunty Gina LaMarca Danielle Daneux Levena Holmes Stacy Moran Christy Canyon Dancing With Wolf Alexis Christian Mirror Image - The Outtakes Paige Summers - 1998 Pet of the Year Star Whores - The Outtakes Eva Major - The Outtakes Eva Major - Fan Gallery PENTHOUSE KEEPS IT COMING STRONG FOR YOU ... NOW TRY IT FREE at http://www.penthousemag.com/sex/ From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Asgaard Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 10:26:03 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: Persistent URLs Considered Useful In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Librarians have been busy in this area. Electronic journals will soon (well, it will take a few years...) become the prefered method for scientific publishing. Pre-publishing, peer-review, certification, post-certification addenda (and sometimes even revocation, if cheating has been proven). Similar methods have been used in the technical development of the Internet for decades but now other fields are catching on. An example of public peer-review techniques http://www.mja.com.au/review/oprtprot.html A functioning and respected scientific e-journal http://www.cogsci.soton.ac.uk/bbs/ The Linkoping University Electronic Press http://www.ep.liu.se/ and more specifically http://www.ida.liu.se/ext/cgi-bin/epa/protect.html describes PGP-signing the MD5 hashes of articles. They will guarantee their on-line survival for 25 years. Also, paper copies are stored in the deep archives of several Swedish University libraries. I guess they don't guarantee that the URL will stay the same for 25 years, but why not. Asgaard From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 12:10:33 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: References to FTL tunneling experiment In-Reply-To: <199801272132.PAA01922@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199801300400.FAA17487@basement.replay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Phelix wrote: > I remember seeing on one of those science specials on The learning channel > (or mabye the Discovery channel) that a professor did figure out > (accidentally) how to send information faster than light. The only thing I > remember about it was the the signal was some kind of music. http://i02aix1.desy.de/~mpoessel/nimtzeng.html http://www.npl.washington.edu/AV/altvw75.html http://www.uni-koeln.de/~abb11/ http://www.aei-potsdam.mpg.de/~mpoessel/nimtzeng.html http://www.fringeware.com/msg/1996/msg00155.html From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Information Security Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 20:24:05 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: Chris Lewis's death? Message-ID: <199801301214.HAA08770@panix2.panix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > From cypherpunks-errors@toad.com Thu Jan 29 20:29:21 1998 > > Information Security (if that is his real name) writes: > > > vznuri@netcom.com "Vladimir Z. Nuri" (nym for Dr. Dim) > > You mean, Vlad is Larry Detweiler and Dmitri Vulis in the same time? > Hmmm ... The above message was sent by Dr. Dim. (He has a natural aversion to spelling his own name correctly when pretending to post as not Dr. Dim.) And, yes, 'vznuri@netcom.com' is a nym for Dr. Dim: just check out his posts at DejaNews...Dr. Dim is a math phud, and "Vladimir" was "plonked" by Dr. Dim immediately after I said it was a nym. ---guy Dr. Dim had an infamous alias "Vladimir Fomin" too. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Information Security Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 20:33:55 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: tell me what you think of this RC2 C++ source code Message-ID: <199801301227.HAA09182@panix2.panix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain # Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 00:06:22 -0500 # Message-ID: <7f7f70c39f30fd17d32c41b5bddb97b3@anon.efga.org> # Subject: tell me what you think of this RC2 C++ source code # To: cypherpunks@toad.com # # tell me what you think of this RC2 C++ source code It sucked...there's an error. ---guy ;-) From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Arturo Grapa Ysunza Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 22:28:20 +0800 To: "'cypherpunks@toad.com> Subject: VIRUS WARNING: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain VIRUS WARNING: A message was received which contained a virus: From: =?KOI8-R?Q?=EF=E5=ED_=F0=CF=CC=D8=DA=CF=D7=C1=D4=C5=CC=D8?= Address: kes21@chat.ru Date: Viernes 30 de Enero de 1998 Time: 1:03:32 AM Subject: Re: Programming This message contains 1 virus: Test2.com infected with the BW.556/1001/1272 virus This message was generated by ThunderBYTE Anti-Virus for MS Exchange http://www.thunderbyte.com/aboutmx.html From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: x Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 01:10:33 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: stupid test (virus warning) Message-ID: <3.0.32.19691231160000.006adbdc@shell15.ba.best.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain .... you get an email from .ru address, with small .com file attached. .... you think: "I shall run it!" .... you flunk. DUUUUHHHH. Hey, Mr. Lame .ru: give it up. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: SteffenHo@aol.com Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 22:36:57 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: hackers and minick Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain In a message dated 98-01-29 15:44:07 EST, kes21@chat.ru writes: >Hello there!!! I send this letter because i want to know anything about >hackers Kevin >Mitnick please send more information about these topics my E-mail >kes21@chat.ru >www.mitnick.com or www.kevinmitnick.com hola, a hompage over his downfall "http://www.takedown.com" and you can always read the book. "The Smaurai and the Cyberthief" From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: John Young Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 22:26:53 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: New Rules on Classified Info Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980130142212.0070b1e4@pop.pipeline.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain The Department of Defense has published today three interim final rules on protection of classified information (apparently issued confidentially months ago): 32 CFR Part 147, Personnel Security Policies for Granting Access to Classified Information 32 CFR Part 148, National Policy on Reciprocity of Facilities and Guidelines for Implementation of Reciprocity 32 CFR Part 149, National Policy on Technical Surveillance Countermeasures See at: http://jya.com/32cfr147.txt (56K) http://jya.com/32cfr148.txt (18K) http://jya.com/32cfr149.txt (7K) From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: jim@mentat.com (Jim Gillogly) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 02:03:36 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: Chaining ciphers Message-ID: <9801301752.AA17574@mentat.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > Jim Gillogly skribis: > > One word of caution (which should be obvious, but can't hurt to repeat it): > > if you chain ciphers (e.g. DES | IDEA | 3DES | CAST | Blowfish), be sure to > > use separate keys for each of them; otherwise breaking the last one will > > give the key to the whole lot. > Matthew Ghio rispondis: > Only if the cryptanalyst knows that the decryption of the last one was > correct, which shouldn't be possible without also decrypting all the other > layers. If the person strapping those systems together writes them from scratch and the penultimate cipher gives a flat distribution, then I agree 100%. However, many (most?) standalone encryption programs will put a magic number or other identification at the beginning (e.g. encrypted PKZIP) or will do a sanity check that actually tells you whether you've decrypted with the right key, whether you see garbage or not (e.g. EAY's stand-alone 'idea', 'des', etc.). PGP also has distinctive headers, I think. In the world of existing cipher packages it's usually possible to tell what you've got. Assume Kerckhoff's principle, of course: the attacker knows which packages you're using and which order you're doing them in. Jim Gillogly Hevensday, 9 Solmath S.R. 1998, 17:52 12.19.4.15.19, 10 Cauac 17 Muan, Fourth Lord of Night From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "=?KOI8-R?Q?=EF=E5=ED_=F0=CF=CC=D8=DA=CF=D7=C1=D4=C5=CC=D8?=" Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 22:01:07 +0800 To: Subject: Re: Programming Message-ID: <199801301344.QAA19746@chat.ru> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary..3988.1071713774.multipart/mixed" --Boundary..3988.1071713774.multipart/mixed Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Cyberpunks !! I have just sent this letter and i do not what to do i would like to become a very good programmer and i don't know where i must start from so be so kind and send me any letters if you can about basics in programming with Assembler Good Bye!!! my email: kes21@chat.ru --Boundary..3988.1071713774.multipart/mixed-- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Billy Brittingham Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 03:49:10 +0800 To: mhunz@ctp.com Subject: Hackers Invade Houston - Houston Hacker Tour In-Reply-To: <68tu02$754$1@news1.bu.edu> Message-ID: <34D22812.C7172E22@ctp.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain The Houston Hacker Tour Houston March 3-4, 1998 Okay, you convinced your organization to embrace an open systems environment. You assured everyone that you and your colleagues were on top of thesecurity angle and you've make great strides. So why are you still nervous? Because paranoia and vigilance are the heart and soul of corporate security. And, whether you're a CIO or a security analyst, whether you manage your organization's entire security strategy or a small piece of it, you know the threats. You know there are countless points of vulnerability. You know a breach at any one of those points could be crippling. You know "100% secure" is a myth. Unfortunately, they know too - the people lurking outside your firewall, the people tapping into your phone lines, the people diving into your dumpsters. They're patient. They're persistent. And they'll find a way in if you let your guard down. You know you can't eliminate vulnerability, but you can reduce it. The question is, how? Find the answers at this interactive two-day session where Cambridge Technology Partners will introduce you to the enemy, their methodologies, and the steps you can take to protect your enterprise. What IS IT? Cambridge Technology Partners is pleased to present the New Hack Tour, a two-day "get-smart" session where you can go head-to-head with leading security analysts, security practitioners, and yes, hackers. Together, you'll explore liability issues and organizational behaviors, learn underground tools of the hacker trade, and discuss attack strategies and detection/protection methodologies. WHO SHOULD ATTEND? Security touches everyone in your organization - from the ground floor of ITto the executive suite. Cambridge recognizes this. The New Hack Tour is uniquely designed for diverse audiences - from technical engineers and system architects to CIOs. In fact, the tour features two tracks, one for the people battling in the network trenches and one for the people who own overall security strategy and are battling to improve it. HOW DOES IT WORK? During the session, participants from across the corporate landscape will: * Day One: Address - in one of two tracks - the micro- or macro-level security issues that directly impact their organizations and their careers. * Day Two: Collaborate with hackers in one comprehensive track to build new and more effective models of corporate security. Day One AGENDA Track One * Setting the Scene * Why is Security Important? * Who are the Players (Hackers, Crackers, and Phone Phreaks)? * Is Security Futile? * What's at Stake? Addressing Liability * Case Study: Anatomy of an Internet Crime * Identify and Discuss Your Security Nightmares * Case Study: Anatomy of a Corporate Security Plan Day ONE AGENDA Track Two * Setting the Scene * Why is Security Important? * Who are the Players (Hackers, Crackers, and Phone Phreaks)? * Is Security Futile? * Identifying the Holes: A Primer on TCP/IP and O/S Internals * Underground Tools * Attack Strategies * Detection and Protection Day two AGENDA Tracks One & Two Meet the Enemy Panel Enemy Perspective: The State of Corporate Insecurity Point and Counterpoint: Participant Driven Q&A with the Enemy Panel Silicon-Based Security Solutions: Architectures, Technologies, and Tools Carbon-Based Security Solutions: Organizational Structures and Behaviors PROGRAM FEES & REGISTRATION Program fees are $995 covering registration, program materials, continental breakfasts, breaks, and lunches. For more information or to register, contact: Billy Brittingham Cambridge Technology Partners 304 Vassar Street Cambridge, MA 02139 617-374-8580 wbritt@ctp.com ABOUT CAMBRIDGE TECHNOLOGY PARTNERS Cambridge Technology Partners is an international management consulting and systems integration firm. Our unique approach has fundamentally reinvented the way business solutions are delivered. We combine strategic consulting, IT strategy, process innovation and implementation, custom and package software deployment, network services, and training to rapidly deliver end-to-end business systems that create immediate bottom-line impact for our clients. We do it fast. We do it for a fixed price. And we do it on time. TIMED AGENDA - HOUSTON Tuesday, March 3 9:00 - 9:15 Welcome & Introductory Remarks Mike Hunziker, Cambridge Technology Partners 9:15 - 10:30 Opening Level-Set * Why is Security Important? * Who are the players (i.e. hackers, crackers, phone phreaks)? * Is Security Futile? Yobie Benjamin, Cambridge Technology Partners 10:30 - 10:45 Break Track One 11:00 - 12:00 What's At Stake? Liability And Legal Issues Addressed James Asperger, Esq. and Christine C. Ewell, Esq., O'Melveny and Myers 12:00 - 1:00 Lunch 1:00 - 2:00 Case Study: Anatomy of an Internet Crime TBD Agent, F.B.I. 2:00 - 2:45 Case Study: Internet Security and the Banking Industry Anita Ward, Senior Vice President, TCB/Chase Manhattan 2:45 - 3:00 Break 3:00 - 3:45 Breakout Exercise - Top Ten Security Nightmares 3:45 - 4:15 Report Backs & Discussion 4:15 - 5:00 Case Study: VISA International Bobby Colquitt, Vice President, VISA International 5:00 Adjourn Track Two 10:45 - 12:15 Identifying the Holes: A Brief Primer on TCP/IP and O/S Internals Peter Shipley, Network Security Associates 12:15 - 1:15 Lunch 1:15 - 2:45 Underground Tools and the Attack Marc Fabro, Secure Computing 2:45 - 3:00 Break 3:00 - 5:00 Detection and Protection Bob Keyes, Cambridge Technology Partners Peter Shipley, Network Security Associates 5:00 Adjourn Wednesday, March 4 9:00 - 9:30 Meet the Enemy Panel Wyatt Earp, B$tring, Yobie Benjamin, Peter Shipley, Dr. Who 9:30 - 10:30 Enemy Perspectives: The State of Corporate [In]Security Wyatt Earp, B$tring, Dr. Who, Benjamin, Shipley 10:30 - 10:45 Break 10:45 - 12:00 Point & Counterpoint: Participant Driven Q&A With Enemy Panel Wyatt Earp, B$tring, Benjamin, Dr. Who, Shipley 12:00 - 1:00 Lunch 1:00 - 2:30 Silicon-Based Security Solutions: Architectures, Technologies & Tools - Marc Fabro, Secure Computing 2:30 - 2:45 Break 2:45 - 3:45 Carbon-Based Solutions: Organizational Behavior and Structure Phillip Parker, Former Director for Counter-Intelligence, FBI 3:45 - 4:15 Closing Thoughts Mike Hunziker, Cambridge Technology Partners From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: ghio@temp0201.myriad.ml.org (Matthew Ghio) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 00:56:06 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: Chaining ciphers In-Reply-To: <9801291747.AA26773@mentat.com> Message-ID: <199801301645.LAA15149@myriad> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Jim Gillogly wrote: > Yes, that's definitely better for high-confidence long-term archival > stuff than relying on one cipher. Carl Ellison's suggestion was DES | > tran | nDES | tran | DES, where "tran" is an unkeyed large-block > transposition. One other possibility is to encrypt with plaintext block chaining, then superencrypt it PBC in reverse order, starting with the last block first. An attacker would thus have to decrypt the entire message before knowing whether the key was correct or not. > One word of caution (which should be obvious, but can't hurt to repeat it): > if you chain ciphers (e.g. DES | IDEA | 3DES | CAST | Blowfish), be sure to > use separate keys for each of them; otherwise breaking the last one will > give the key to the whole lot. Only if the cryptanalyst knows that the decryption of the last one was correct, which shouldn't be possible without also decrypting all the other layers. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Bill Stewart Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 06:21:51 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: FC: Letter from high-tech CEOs to Feinstein: back off! Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980130140759.00843bf0@popd.ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Forwarded from Declan's list >From: Declan McCullagh >Subject: FC: Letter from high-tech CEOs to Feinstein: back off! >X-URL: Politech is at http://www.well.com/~declan/politech/ > >=== > > January 15, 1998 >> >> >> The Honorable Dianne Feinstein >> United States Senate >> Washington, DC 21510 >> >> >> Dear Senator Feinstein, >> >> As Chief Executive Officers of leading California companies, we were >> disappointed by your >> November 5 comments at a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing implying >> that >> California companies >> are ambivalent regarding your position on encryption policy. We are >> anything but >> ambivalent about an >> issue that will have a profound impact on our companies, our >> customers, the >> citizens of our country, >> and our nation itself. >> >> We are in the midst of a transformation of our society into an era >> where >> information technology is >> affecting and improving all of our lives and all of our businesses. >> Without >> effective security we put >> at risk the confidentiality of our intellectual property, the public's >> privacy >> and the nation's critical >> infrastructure. And none of us will be able to take full advantage of >> the >> opportunities being presented >> to us by the promise of global electronic commerce. >> >> And consider the burgeoning threat of personal identity theft. As >> emphasized in >> the September 1997 >> issue of Consumer Reports, "the crime is one of the fastest-growing in >> the >> nation, according to the >> California District Attorneys Association. Identity thieves make off >> with >> billions of dollars a year...." >> Strong encryption with no systemic vulnerability is the best >> protection against >> such damaging fraud. >> Indeed, the credit-card industry, as you heard in testimony before the >> Judiciary >> Subcommittee on >> Terrorism and Technology on September 3, soon will be offering >> publicly a very >> sophisticated system >> for secure credit-card transactions over the Internet. While the >> system will be >> able to reconstruct >> transactions soon after the fact in response to legitimate >> law-enforcement >> requests, it does not employ >> keys and would not comply with the kind of mandate contemplated by the >> FBI. >> >> Mandatory key recovery policies, domestically and for export, will >> make the >> United States a second >> class nation in the Information Age. >> >> We are very sympathetic to the concerns of law enforcement, and we >> greatly >> respect your continuing >> support for them. In fact, if we believed that the policy of >> mandatory key >> recovery could successfully >> prevent criminals from having access to unbreakable encryption, we >> might support >> that position. >> However, this policy cannot succeed, and in the process of failing it >> will >> sacrifice the leading role that >> the State of California is playing in the international economy. Even >> more >> important, perhaps, the >> policy will create new law enforcement and national security >> challenges because >> U.S. corporations and >> government officials will be forced to rely on unproven foreign >> encryption >> technology. Maintaining >> United States leadership in the development of state-of-the-art >> cryptography is >> in the best interests of >> U.S. national security and law enforcement. California companies and >> industries >> nationwide are >> united in opposition to domestic and export controls that jeopardize >> this >> leadership. >> >> California companies need your support to be able to meet this new day >> with a >> strong and competitive >> encryption industry. We urge you to meet regularly with >> representatives from >> our companies, in >> Washington D.C. and in California, to discuss this issue further. >> >> Sincerely, >> >> >> Christopher Allen >> President and CEO >> Consensus Development Corporation >> >> Bill Archey >> CEO >> American Electronics Association >> >> Jim Barksdale >> CEO >> Netscape Communications, Inc. >> >> Carol Bartz >> CEO >> Autodesk, Inc. >> >> George Bell >> CEO >> Excite, Inc. >> >> Eric Benhamou >> Chairman and CEO >> 3Com Corporation >> >> Jim Bidzos >> CEO >> RSA Data Security, Inc. >> >> Philip Bowles >> President >> Bowles Farming Co., Inc. >> >> Steve Case >> Chairman and CEO >> America Online, Inc. >> >> Wilfred J. Corrigan >> Chairman and CEO >> LSI Logic >> >> Thomas B. Crowley >> President & CEO >> Crowley Maritime Corporation >> >> Philip Dunkelberger >> CEO >> PGP >> >> Judy Estrin >> President & CEO >> Precept Software, Inc. >> >> David W. Garrison >> CEO >> Netcom On-Line Communication Services, Inc. >> >> Karl Geng >> President and CEO >> Siemens Business Communication Systems, Inc. >> Santa Clara, Calif. >> >> Charles M. Geschke >> President >> Adobe Systems, Inc. >> >> Brian L. Halla >> President, Chairman & CEO >> National Semiconductor, Inc. >> >> Gordon Mayer >> CEO and Chairman >> Geoworks Corporation >> >> Scott McNealy >> Chairman and CEO >> Sun Microsystems, Inc. >> >> >> >> Ed Mueller >> Predident and CEO >> Pacific Bell >> >> Kenneth J. Orton >> President and CEO >> Preview Travel, Inc. >> >> Willem P. Roelandts >> CEO >> Xilinx, Inc. >> >> Eric Schmidt >> CEO >> Novell, Inc. >> >> Tom Steding >> CEO >> Red Creek >> >> Deb Triant >> CEO >> Checkpoint >> >> David E. Weiss >> Chairman, President and CEO >> Storage Technology Corporation >> >> >> >> >> > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- >POLITECH -- the moderated mailing list of politics and technology >To subscribe: send a message to majordomo@vorlon.mit.edu with this text: >subscribe politech >More information is at http://www.well.com/~declan/politech/ >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Eric Cordian Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 05:56:18 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: US Tried Same Tricks With Cuba Message-ID: <199801302140.PAA13031@wire.insync.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain While the US Government tries to whip up public opinion for the mass murder of more Iraqis, filling the press with inflammatory statements, most of which are based on no new information, and the inability to prove negatives, newly declassified records demonstrate that such antics have been used by the government before. Should the US, claiming to represent "the will of the whole world," launch an unprovoked military strike against Iraq, based on some vague claim that Iraq has not had its industrial infrastructure disemboweled to the point where it will never again be able to perform even the simplest chemical or biological laboratory work, I would hope that all thinking non-sheep in this country would avail themselves of every covert opportunity to monkey-wrench the US War Machine. UN economic sanctions demanded by the US against Iraq have already directly resulted in the deaths of over 1,000,000 Iraqis of all ages. ----- WASHINGTON (AP) -- America's military leaders signed off on a scheme in 1963 to provoke Fidel Castro into attacking the United States so that retaliating U.S. forces could squash him ``with speed, force and determination,'' newly declassified records show. The records were among 600 pages opened at the National Archives by a government agency, the Assassination Records Review Board, to help researchers into John F. Kennedy's Nov. 22, 1963, assassination explore the possibility of a Cuban connection and to ``put the assassination into its historical context.'' Some Cuban involvement has been theorized because of slain suspect Lee Harvey Oswald's association with the Fair Play for Cuba Committee. ``These military records further demonstrate how high on the U.S. government's radar screen getting rid of the Castro government was in the early 1960s,'' said John R. Tunheim, a federal judge in Minnesota and the board's chairman. The documents showed that in February 1962 the Joint Chiefs of Staff and Deputy Defense Secretary Roswell Gilpatric approved a plan to ``lure or provoke Castro, or an uncontrollable subordinate, into an overt hostile reaction against the United States.'' The attack ``would in turn create the justification for the U.S. to not only retaliate but destroy Castro with speed, force and determination,'' the memo said. It was not clear where along the chain of command the plan eventually was squelched. But by the following year, another Pentagon policy paper discussed a new scheme to make it appear that Cuba had attacked a member of the Organization of American States so that the United States could retaliate. Five scenarios were spelled out, foreseeing either real or faked Cuban attacks on a U.S. ally. One of them: ``A contrived 'Cuban' attack on an OAS member could be set up, and the attacked state could be urged to take measures of self-defense and request assistance from the U.S. and OAS.'' The paper expressed confidence that ``the U.S. could almost certainly obtain the necessary two-thirds support among OAS members for collective action against Cuba.'' The planners got cold feet, the documents show. They feared leaks. ``Any of the contrived situations described above are inherently, extremely risky in our democratic system in which security can be maintained, after the fact, with very great difficulty,'' a memo said. ``If the decision should be made to set up a contrived situation, it should be one in which participation by U.S. personnel is limited only to the most high trusted covert personnel.'' The documents were the second set about Washington's preoccupation with getting rid of Castro to be made public by the board. Late last year, 1,500 pages showed that military planners had come up with a variety of dirty tricks intended to harass or humiliate Castro. One prescribed flooding Cuba with faked photos of an overweight Castro ``with two beauties'' and ``a table brimming over with the most delectable Cuban food'' to make the point that Castro's lifestyle was richer than that of most Cubans. In the new set of papers, one prepared by the Defense Department's Caribbean Survey Group and dated Feb. 19, 1962, wanted to make Castro so fearful of an imminent U.S. attack that he would call up the Cuban militia. The purpose was ``a complete disruption of the available labor force'' for the 1962 sugar cane harvest. Another, a psychological warfare proposal dated Feb. 12, 1963, proposed the creation of an imaginary Cuban resistance leader. The paper called him ``our Cuban Kilroy.'' ``After a period of time, all unexplained incidents and actions for which credit has not been seized by some other exile group would automatically be ascribed to our imaginary friend,'' the paper said. ``At some point in time it could be leaked that the U.S. is, in fact, supporting this imaginary person.'' Eventually, the paper speculated, ``a member of the resistance in Cuba may gain sufficient stature to assume or to be given the title of this imaginary leader.'' The Pentagon documents were written after the disastrous April 1961 invasion of Cuba's Bay of Pigs by Cuban exiles trained, armed and directed by the United States. -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law" From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 05:48:27 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: Interesting Chemical Reaction (fwd) Message-ID: <199801302143.PAA18723@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 16:34:15 -0500 > From: ghio@temp0203.myriad.ml.org (Matthew Ghio) > Subject: Re: Interesting Chemical Reaction > > Because the thermodynamics assume a *closed* model. The base assumption of > > your model is that it is closed. This means that not only the mirror, and > > the two focii are in the system, but also the light source. When taken as a > > whole the entropy is constant. Now if you allow the light to pass through > > the mirror from outside an initial axiomatic assumption, a closed system, > > is broken. > > Assume that the mirrors completely surround the objects, and that the only > light source is IR thermal radiation, and that the mirrors are insulated > from the outsite world, so we can assume a closed system. > > By the laws of optics, one focus should get warmer than the other, but by > the law of entropy they must remain at the same temperature. That's the > paradox. No, the total energy of the *system* stays constant, not individual componants which are free to heat up or cool down as the energy in the system is moved around. The total entropy of the lenses, the cold foci, and the warm foci are what stays constant. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 05:59:44 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: Interesting Chemical Reaction (fwd) Message-ID: <199801302155.PAA18887@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > Subject: Re: Interesting Chemical Reaction (fwd) > Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 15:43:31 -0600 (CST) > Forwarded message: > > > Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 16:34:15 -0500 > > From: ghio@temp0203.myriad.ml.org (Matthew Ghio) > > Subject: Re: Interesting Chemical Reaction > > > > Because the thermodynamics assume a *closed* model. The base assumption of > > > your model is that it is closed. This means that not only the mirror, and > > > the two focii are in the system, but also the light source. When taken as a > > > whole the entropy is constant. Now if you allow the light to pass through > > > the mirror from outside an initial axiomatic assumption, a closed system, > > > is broken. > > > > Assume that the mirrors completely surround the objects, and that the only > > light source is IR thermal radiation, and that the mirrors are insulated > > from the outsite world, so we can assume a closed system. > > > > By the laws of optics, one focus should get warmer than the other, but by > > the law of entropy they must remain at the same temperature. That's the > > paradox. > > No, the total energy of the *system* stays constant, not individual > componants which are free to heat up or cool down as the energy in the > system is moved around. The total entropy of the lenses, the cold foci, > and the warm foci are what stays constant. A couple of other points that I should have added. Your base assumption that light and heat are not the same thing is faulty. They are in fact identical so to speak of the 'law of optics' and the 'laws of thermodynamics' as different things is in error. What happens in the *real* world is that a point is reached where the amount of energy emitted by each foci exactly balances the amount of energy received by each foci. We in effect reach thermodynamic equilibrium, better known as heat death. This term means that the minimal level of disorder has been reached by the system under study and without outside intervention no change, outside quantum fluctuations, will take place. ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "William H. Geiger III" Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 06:15:42 +0800 To: Eric Cordian Subject: Re: US Tried Same Tricks With Cuba In-Reply-To: <199801302140.PAA13031@wire.insync.net> Message-ID: <199801302229.RAA13448@users.invweb.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- In <199801302140.PAA13031@wire.insync.net>, on 01/30/98 at 03:40 PM, Eric Cordian said: >While the US Government tries to whip up public opinion for the mass >murder of more Iraqis, filling the press with inflammatory statements, >most of which are based on no new information, and the inability to prove >negatives, newly declassified records demonstrate that such antics have >been used by the government before. > >Should the US, claiming to represent "the will of the whole world," >launch an unprovoked military strike against Iraq, based on some vague >claim that Iraq has not had its industrial infrastructure disemboweled to >the point where it will never again be able to perform even the simplest >chemical or biological laboratory work, I would hope that all thinking >non-sheep in this country would avail themselves of every covert >opportunity to monkey-wrench the US War Machine. > >UN economic sanctions demanded by the US against Iraq have already >directly resulted in the deaths of over 1,000,000 Iraqis of all ages. > What a bunch of crap! I suggest you go over to Iraq and talk to the Kurds who were slaughtered in CBW attacks by the Iraq military (thanks Germany) and while you are over there ask Iraq's neighbors what they think of them getting Nukes. If it wasn't for the Israelie attack in '81-'82 he would have had the past 15 yrs to produce weapon grade uranium and plutonium (thanks France). Grow-up! The world is a dangerious place with dangerious people in it. Iraq is one of those places just like Cuba was back in the '60's. - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------- William H. Geiger III http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0 Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html - --------------------------------------------------------------- Tag-O-Matic: I love running Windows! NOT! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3a-sha1 Charset: cp850 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000 iQCVAwUBNNJBcI9Co1n+aLhhAQEq1AQAq6d03E74Zev76U6Cmsxa/yLIXDah1lTt dLGZTnB8bhC1iL9kddVVAht/Zy1p2wMJ+9Nza6Ql5tUPE5dlG8A9Lu3/mklVsHjL QxHqsK+IeuHg+wBxiPlrMhc3qiCdWvqm91RyM6kX0u7fFwlZMbiKdQEYZkeC4SRp 4k3VDXkJJh8= =ZouU -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Joe Acosta Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 08:28:53 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: US Tried Same Tricks With Cuba Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980130162208.0086fd00@pop.americasttv.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Well Well it was during Cuban Missile Crisis that the small pimple-sized Island brought us to the highest state of Def-Com ever (one level before actually launching an attack). At that point it time it was deadly serious; fortunately JFK and Krucheiv (sorry for murdering the spelling) where able to work something out and avoid a catastrophe. Joe Acosta At 05:14 PM 1/30/98 -0600, Eric Cordian wrote: >WHGIII writes: > >> Grow-up! The world is a dangerious place with dangerious people in it. >> Iraq is one of those places just like Cuba was back in the '60's. > >Cuba is a pimple-sized island which in no way threatens the large >continent next to it. > >-- >Eric Michael Cordian 0+ >O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division >"Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law" > > From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: ghio@temp0203.myriad.ml.org (Matthew Ghio) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 05:48:18 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: Interesting Chemical Reaction In-Reply-To: <199801282322.RAA09923@einstein.ssz.com> Message-ID: <199801302134.QAA24635@myriad> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Jim Choate wrote: > Because the thermodynamics assume a *closed* model. The base assumption of > your model is that it is closed. This means that not only the mirror, and > the two focii are in the system, but also the light source. When taken as a > whole the entropy is constant. Now if you allow the light to pass through > the mirror from outside an initial axiomatic assumption, a closed system, > is broken. Assume that the mirrors completely surround the objects, and that the only light source is IR thermal radiation, and that the mirrors are insulated from the outsite world, so we can assume a closed system. By the laws of optics, one focus should get warmer than the other, but by the law of entropy they must remain at the same temperature. That's the paradox. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Roger J Jones" Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 07:01:27 +0800 To: Subject: My apology Message-ID: <199801302253.QAA19834@pc1824.ibpinc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary..3988.1071713774.multipart/mixed" --Boundary..3988.1071713774.multipart/mixed Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tim, I stand corrected, This must be Chem-Punks Roger J. Jones --Boundary..3988.1071713774.multipart/mixed Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="bin00001.bin" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="bin00001.bin" Content-Description: "Roger John Jones (E-mail).vcf" QkVHSU46VkNBUkQKVkVSU0lPTjoyLjEKTjpKb25lcztSb2dlcjs7OwpGTjpS b2dlciBKb2huIEpvbmVzIChFLW1haWwpCk9SRzpJQlAsIGluYy47ClRJVExF OlNlbmlvciBWaWNlIFByZXNpZGVudApURUw7V09SSztWT0lDRTooNDAyKSAy NDEtMjUyMwpURUw7SE9NRTtWT0lDRTooNzEyKSAyMzktMTg2NQpURUw7Q0VM TDtWT0lDRTooNzEyKSAyNTItNTA2NgpURUw7Q0FSO1ZPSUNFOig3MTIpIDI1 MS00NDEwClRFTDtQQUdFUjtWT0lDRTooNzEyKSAyNzctNTU4MApURUw7V09S SztGQVg6KDQwMikgMjQxLTM2NDgKQURSO1dPUks6Ozs0MDE3IEdsZW4gT2Fr cyBCbHZkO1Npb3V4IENpdHk7SUE7NTExMDQ7VW5pdGVkIFN0YXRlcyBvZiBB bWVyaWNhCkxBQkVMO1dPUks7RU5DT0RJTkc9UVVPVEVELVBSSU5UQUJMRTo0 MDE3IEdsZW4gT2FrcyBCbHZkPTBEPTBBU2lvdXggQ2l0eSwgSUEgNTExMDQ9 MEQ9MEFVbml0ZWQgU3RhdGVzIG9mIEFtZXJpY2EKQURSO0hPTUU6Ozs0MDE3 IEdsZW4gT2FrcyBCbHZkO1Npb3V4IENpdHk7SUE7NTExMDQ7VW5pdGVkIFN0 YXRlcyBvZiBBbWVyaWNhCkxBQkVMO0hPTUU7RU5DT0RJTkc9UVVPVEVELVBS SU5UQUJMRTo0MDE3IEdsZW4gT2FrcyBCbHZkPTBEPTBBU2lvdXggQ2l0eSwg SUEgNTExMDQ9MEQ9MEFVbml0ZWQgU3RhdGVzIG9mIEFtZXJpY2EKRU1BSUw7 UFJFRjtJTlRFUk5FVDpjeWJlckBpYnBpbmMuY29tClJFVjoxOTk4MDEzMFQx ODE5NTFaCkVORDpWQ0FSRAo= --Boundary..3988.1071713774.multipart/mixed-- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Eric Cordian Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 07:27:09 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: US Tried Same Tricks With Cuba In-Reply-To: <199801302229.RAA13448@users.invweb.net> Message-ID: <199801302314.RAA13193@wire.insync.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain WHGIII writes: > Grow-up! The world is a dangerious place with dangerious people in it. > Iraq is one of those places just like Cuba was back in the '60's. Cuba is a pimple-sized island which in no way threatens the large continent next to it. -- Eric Michael Cordian 0+ O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law" From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 07:29:11 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: Re: US Tried Same Tricks With Cuba (fwd) Message-ID: <199801302325.RAA19397@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > From: Eric Cordian > Subject: Re: US Tried Same Tricks With Cuba > Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 17:14:58 -0600 (CST) > WHGIII writes: > > > Grow-up! The world is a dangerious place with dangerious people in it. > > Iraq is one of those places just like Cuba was back in the '60's. > > Cuba is a pimple-sized island which in no way threatens the large > continent next to it. Perhaps not, but those Russian made and maintaned atomic ICBM's parked 90 miles off Florida certainly did... ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Roman Rutman (sw)" Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 23:45:53 +0800 To: "'cypherpunks@cyberpass.net> Subject: virus alert! Message-ID: <01BD2DA5.91BC4350.roman@softwinter.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Previus message include virus: C:\test2.com : virus BW-based detected. Do not run it. Have a nice day, Roman Rutman roman@softwinter.com seNTry 2020 - transparent disk encryption software - http://www.softwinter.com The information in this e-mail maybe confidential and may also be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this e-mail by anyone else is unauthorized. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. When addressed to our clients any opinions or advise contained in this e-mail are subject to the terms and conditions expressed in the governing Soft Winter terms of business. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 10:13:49 +0800 To: "Uhh...this is Joe [Randall Farmer]" Subject: Re: Predicting cipher life / NSA rigged DES? ... In-Reply-To: <9801290026.AA13035@mentat.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I had tended to not take too seriously the posts of someone who signs himself as "Uhh...this is Joe," but the reasoning he displays below makes me take him more seriously: At 5:26 PM -0800 1/30/98, Uhh...this is Joe [Randall Farmer] wrote: >Yes, I think that's what my (inaccurate) model would suggest you do, if my >guesses as to break probability are close; real, practical cipher breaks get >rarer after more analysis-hours pass -- i.e., ciphers are more likely to be >broken in the first year of analysis than the tenth -- so expected lifetimes >would increase with the amount of analysis survived. Just so. With one minor caveat: the amount of time should be replaced by "effort expended." Clearly there are a lot of flaky algorithms which have been given scant attention. It would be wrong to assume that the first year spent trying to break Blowfish is comparable to the first year spent trying to attack Virtual Matrix Superunbreakable Amazing Algorithm. But I generally like your intuition. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Declan McCullagh Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 10:36:37 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: History of radio regulation; scrutiny of elected officials Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 18:31:25 -0800 (PST) From: Declan McCullagh To: politech@vorlon.mit.edu Subject: History of radio regulation; scrutiny of elected officials Attached below are excerpts from two Supreme Court cases. The first, NBC v. U.S. (1943), I read this week for a communications law class I'm auditing. The portion I'll include here deals with the history of radio (and I'm aware that there are revisionist histories that appear to be more accurate, or at least tell more of the truth). But I couldn't help thinking of the domain name disputes while reading it. Excerpt from National Broadcasting Co. v. U.S. (1943) ...The number of stations multiplied so rapidly, however, that by November, 1925, there were almost 600 stations in the country, and there were 175 applications for new stations. Every channel in the standard broadcast band was, by that time, already occupied by at least one station, and many by several. The new stations could be accommodated only by extending the standard broadcast band, at the expense of the other types of services, or by imposing still greater limitations upon time and power. The National Radio Conference which met in November, 1925, opposed both of these methods and called upon Congress to remedy the situation through legislation. The Secretary of Commerce was powerless to deal with the situation. It had been held that he could not deny a license to an otherwise legally qualified applicant on the ground that the proposed station would interfere with existing private or Government stations. And on April 16, 1926, an Illinois district court held that the Secretary had no power to impose restrictions as to frequency, power, and hours of operation, and that a station's use of a frequency not assigned to it was not a violation of the Radio Act of 1912. This was followed on July 8, 1926, by an opinion of Acting Attorney General Donovan that the Secretary of Commerce had no power, under the Radio Act of 1912, to regulate the power, frequency or hours of operation of stations. The next day the Secretary of Commerce issued a statement abandoning all his efforts to regulate radio and urging that the stations undertake self-regulation. But the plea of the Secretary went unheeded. From, July, 1926, to February 23, 1927, when Congress enacted the Radio Act of 1927, 44 Stat. 1162, almost 200 new stations went on the air. These new stations used any frequencies they desired, regardless of the interference thereby caused to others. Existing stations changed to other frequencies and increased their power and hours of operation at will. The result was confusion and chaos. With everybody on the air, nobody could be heard. The situation became so intolerable that the President in his message of December 7, 1926, appealed to Congress to enact a comprehensive radio law... Which gave us the predecessor of today's FCC. The question, of course, is if the justification for the FCC was to eliminate chaos, why did the agency not just stop there? Why the indecency rules, must-carry regs, fairness doctrine, overseeing network-station relationships, and so on? -Declan ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 14:41:10 -0500 From: Marc Rotenberg To: Declan McCullagh Subject: From the Brandeis File Decency, security, and liberty alike demand that government officials shall be subjected to the same rules of conduct that are commands to the citizens. In a government of laws, existence of the government will be imperilled if it fails observe the law scrupulously. Our government is the potent, omnipresent teacher. For good or ill, it teaches the whole people by example. Crime is contageous. If the government becomes a lawbreaker; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. To declare that in the administration of the criminal law the end justifies the means -- to declare that the government may commit crimes to secure the conviction of a private criminal -- would bring terrible retribution. Against that pernicious doctrine this Court should resolutely set its face. Olmstead v. US (1928) You remember Brandeis. He's the person who argued for the *right* of privacy. Hardly a surprise, therefore, that he would be so outspoken on the abuse of government authority. Marc. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Declan McCullagh Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 10:45:59 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: More on U.S. government and domain names Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 18:40:07 -0800 (PST) From: Declan McCullagh To: politech@vorlon.mit.edu Subject: More on U.S. government and domain names [In the way of self-promotion: Yesterday I taped a CSPAN program on online journalism and Internet regulation. It's airing on CSPAN 1/30 at 7 pm, CSPAN2 at 1/31 at 10 am, and CSPAN 2/2 at 5 pm. I'll also be on National Empowerment Television (NET-TV) on Monday 2/2 around 10:15 pm to talk about encryption regulation. Also tomorrow on PBS Technopolitics (airing here at 11:30 am on WETA 26), the topic is crypto. I believe the guests are NAM's David Peyton and Commerce Dept's William Reinsch. --Declan] ********** Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 12:58:11 -0800 From: John Gilmore To: declan@well.com, gnu@toad.com Subject: Netrape Screwlootions begins operations under US Government plan In response to the publication of the US Government's plan to provide long-term stable operation of the Internet domain name system, we have an announcement. Today we are forming a new company, Netrape Screwlootions, Inc. We claim the domain names ".net", ".rape", ".screw", ".lootions", and ".inc", but will settle for ".screw" in the short term. We have a climate-controlled 24-hour operation center deep in the bowels of the earth, with plenty of spare energy. Though there are no ethical standards required for assignment of a government-controlled domain name, we assure you that we meet the highest ethical standards for the lowest place. We have extensive connections in all parts of the Government, especially the White House, which will guarantee our rightful place in the selection of appropriate organizations to manage the transition from public service to throttled competition and then to the heavenly free Internet envisioned by the plan. We meet all the necessary requirements. Everyone is welcome, and we are open 24 hours a day and 365 days a year. We have standardized on high-quality Lucifer encryption for all our accesses. We have multiple high-speed connections to the upper world, and we daily make an archive of all our customers so that they can be resuscitated for continuing operations if they are accidentally destroyed. Our searchable database of customers is maintained by the Perl-y Gates himself. The first one is always free with us, including our software. Our number of global zones of service is completely adequate, providing non-denominational worldwide access to our facilities. Our management policies have been reviewed by the very highest authorities. We assure you that our technical staff is very expert in its machinations, and we offer them constant practice to refine their skills. We have created alternate dispute resolution for trademark-related complaints. This process does not involve the time, expense, and pain of litigation. Instead, our process involves sending trademark lawyers and domain scammers to the deepest part of our operations center, where their thresholds will be studied by the application of delicate instruments that have taken centuries to perfect. The party who screams the loudest will prevail, as usual. Innocent domain users would be inconvenienced by the use of this procedure, but we do not expect any innocent users to actually register domain names. Both sides in the trademark debate assure us that all domain names infringe trademarks and that all trademark owners are slavering monsters. Our level of security is the best. No-one gets past the guards who protect our portals, and we have been in operation for millennia. No malicious hacker has ever escaped us in the long term. We definitely provide a "hot switchover" capability. We have extensive experience with fires, earthquakes, tornadoes, arson, bombs, and other acts of God and War. It is often said that one's soul is visible in one's face, and what else could be called the public face of a company but its name? Your name will be safe with us. Our prices are quite low, certainly no more than the price of a small mass of pottage. We will be glad to register your ...name with us, and when the appropriate time comes, you will then know our true prices. We are looking forward to it. Moo-haa-haaaaaaaaaa....... ************ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 12:00:01 -0500 From: Keith Dawson To: declan@well.com Cc: politech@vorlon.mit.edu Subject: Re: FC: U.S. gvt plan to fully privatize the Internet At 10:15 AM -0500 1/30/98, Declan McCullagh wrote: >The Clinton administration has released its long-awaited >plan to privatize the central nervous system of the >Internet. Declan -- nice summary. See my initial analysis at http://www.tbtf.com/index.html#tbotoday . **** Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 14:43:22 -0500 From: Mikki Barry Subject: A-TCPIP/DNRC Press Release Re: Green Paper Press Release January 30, 1998 Contacts: Mikki Barry President, A-TCPIP/ Domain Name Rights Coalition P.O. Box 25876 Alexandria, VA 22313-5876 703.925-0282 Email: ooblick@netpolicy.com Harold Feld, Esq. c/o Covington & Burling 1201 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W. P.O. Box 7566 Washington, D.C. 20044-7566 202.662-5132 Email: hfeld@domain-name.org or hfeld@cov.com HERNDON, VA - The Association for the Creation and Propagation of Internet Policies (A-TCPIP) and its working group the Domain Name Rights Coalition (DNRC) welcome the release of the Commerce Department's Green Paper this morning. This paper marks the first time there has been a real effort to capture the diversity of interests in the Internet community on the issue of Internet Governance. "The Internet community should be grateful to Ira Magaziner and his staff for sorting through the hundreds of pages of comments and ideas and producing this well thought out paper," said Mikki Barry, president of A-TCPIP/DNRC. "Now is the time for all small business and public interest organizations who wish to be heard to join with us in helping the Commerce Department focus on ensuring the Internet's continued role in communications and the free flow of information" Harold Feld, Assistant General Counsel of the A-TCPIP/DNRC stated "This is a good first step, but more must come. The Internet is a medium of communications and communities, not just commerce. The vast majority of Internet uses are for communications rather than commerce. We need a clear statement that communications and free speech, including personal and political speech and parody, is valued and protected above all other interests including commerce and intellectual property. The policies of this paper need to reiterate that fact." While applauding the paper's recognition of the role of free market innovators, A-TCPIP/DNRC Vice President and Internet entrepreneur Mike Doughney worried that the paper also contained provisions that would shut out small businesses and people with new ideas. " Dual T1 connections and 24 hour guards make registration services prohibitive for smaller business concerns to enter the marketplace," said Doughney "and allowing one company (even through separate subsidiaries) to be both registry and registrar further stifles the competitive nature inherent to the Internet." Specific points of the paper that the A-TCPIP/DNRC feel need to be addressed include: The make up of the non profit oversight corporation does not include enough seats for small business or for individual users. One seat for each is not enough given that the vast majority of Internet use is by small business, individual users, non profit entities, and others who use it as a forum for communication. The role .us Top Level Domain needs to be clarified. "The .us domain is a valuable resource that is woefully under utilized," said Kathryn Kleiman, General Counsel of the organization. "We are highly encouraged that Mr. Magaziner addressed it in his paper. We stand ready to assist in formulating a coherent policy for its use." Registrars should not be forced to have a domain name dispute policy. Domain name disputes, as with all other disputes involving trademark law need to be settled by court proceedings. Trademark owners should have no superior rights in cyberspace than they have in any other medium of communications. Registrars should not be forced to suspend domain names if an objection (baseless or not) is lodged within 30 days of that name's registration. Doing so would prohibit timely personal, political and commercial speech, and is essentially a 30 day waiting period that would be particularly injurious to small business interests.Further, the automatic suspension is contrary to trademark law because it effectively grants an automatic injunction against the domain name owner where the trademark owner has not proven any likelihood of confusion or infringment. A-TCPIP/DNRC has represented entrepreneurs, small businesses and individuals on issues of Internet governance and domain name concerns since 1995. Its Internet website can be found at http://www.domain-name.org and includes the organization's comments to the Department of Commerce in this proceeding. _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 21:21:48 EST From: von Kriegsherr To: declan@well.com Cc: politech@vorlon.mit.edu Subject: U.S.Gov.To Turn `Net over to Moguls Who are we kidding? Ourselves. Keeping the `Net under the protection of U.S. soil, so to speak, is the ONLY guarantee that some international Cabal does not decide for us what we will be able to write or research. It's a few short steps from a total control of all information which is declared, "sensitive." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: John Young Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 08:07:14 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: More on ISDN Features Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980130235837.0072cee4@pop.pipeline.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain This is from UK Crypto, where the ISDN-snoop part of the EuroParl report on technologies for political control was cited and asked if true. Perhaps Jim Choate, Steve Schear and others might clarify. Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 00:09:40 +0000 To: ukcrypto@maillist.ox.ac.uk From: John Brooks Subject: Re: [vin@shore.net: EuroParl Report - NSA, Crypto, Liberty & Trade] >A draft ("consultation version") of a report by the European >Parliament's Office for Scientific and Technological Option Assessment >(STOA) entitled "AN APPRAISAL OF TECHNOLOGIES OF POLITICAL >CONTROL" has been submitted to the EuroParl's Civil Liberties and >Interior Committee. But this is all (or 99 percent) complete bollocks. >"[...] Some systems even lend themselves to a dual role as a national >interceptions network. ??? > For example the message switching system used on digital >exchanges like System X in the UK supports an Integrated >Services Digital Network (ISDN) Protocol. This allows digital >devices, e.g. fax to share the system with existing lines. The ISDN >subset is defined in their documents as "Signalling CCITT1-series >interface for ISDN access". I think this means I series - which are all public docs... >What is not widely known is that built in to the international CCITT >protocol is the ability to take phones 'off hook' Yes - ok. If you have a delinquent ISDN switch AND the totalitarian state wants to bug you AND YOU choose to use a handset which DOES NOT break the analogue path between the microphone and the ISDN NTU / TA (all standard analogue phones break the circuit, AFAIK. It's only the speakerphone gadgets that could be subverted.) Then I suppose this is possible. But who gives a s**t about the .1% of vulnerable phones. And it would be dead easy to mod them to defeat any such attempt. There are loads of easier ways to mount covert surveillance than screwing up the phone system! >and listen into conversations occurring near the phone, >without the user being aware that it is happening." ISDN is NOT a 'message switching protocol', and there is none as such on Sys X and Y, which use SS7 for inter-switch signalling anyway. The ISDN interfaces and service are only defined for the ends of various types of subscriber line, as far as I remember. What happens inside the provider network is up to the provider and is not ISDN. I'm much more concerned about the Echelon system which was (finally) reported in the Sunday Telegraph just before Xmas. This system, it is alleged, can intercept and look for keywords in ALL international comms traffic. I believe this also gets a mention in the Europarliament report. Vote early and often for freely available strong encryption!! (whatever JR mutters about 'doing him out of his livelihood' :=) ) Key escrow is another example of complete bollocks, IMHO. Cheers -jb -- John Brooks - Consultant in Data Communications, Networking and Energy Systems South Croydon, 7,CR2 7HN, UK Tel: (44) 181 681 1595 Fax: (44) 181 649 7536 The opinions expressed here are mine but are not offered as professional advice. ---------- BTW, provocative commentary on the EuroParl report by Vin McLellan, which is the source of the UK Crypto thread, is available at: http://jya.com/nsa-etc-nf.htm From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Uhh...this is Joe [Randall Farmer]" Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 09:31:02 +0800 To: Jim Gillogly Subject: Re: Predicting cipher life / NSA rigged DES? / Destroying encrypted data (Tangent to Re: Burning papers) In-Reply-To: <9801290026.AA13035@mentat.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > > Your best chance at encrypting stuff that needs a long shelf life is with a > cipher that's had a lot of analysis and plenty of intrinsic key, like 3DES. Yes, I think that's what my (inaccurate) model would suggest you do, if my guesses as to break probability are close; real, practical cipher breaks get rarer after more analysis-hours pass -- i.e., ciphers are more likely to be broken in the first year of analysis than the tenth -- so expected lifetimes would increase with the amount of analysis survived. Of course, like TcM said, chaining ciphers only cuts speed by a little and helps security a lot. > > > Am I just going crazy, or is it kind of obvious that NSA knew the s-boxes they > > provided for DES weren't secure? > > The former. That shouldn't surprise anyone who's seen my posts. :) > The S-boxes they replaced were bogus, and the ones they came up with were > good against differential cryptanalysis -- better than random ones. There's > no a priori reason to believe they knew about linear cryptanalysis, and in > any case Matsui's l.c. attack on DES is better than brute force only in > situations where you have a great deal of known or chosen plaintext. So how > come you claim they aren't secure? DES isn't suitable for long-archived > info, but is still OK for short-lifetime data against a not-too-motivated > attacker: its only known weakness for this application is its key-length, not > its S-boxes. Perhaps I should say that the S-boxes weren't as secure as they could/should have been. We know how to construct better ones now (s^5 DES is just that -- DES w/better [?] S-boxes), and I'd venture to say that if NSA wasn't 21 years ahead, they either spent most of their cash on computers, not crypto whizzes, or else the cryptographers spent too much time on coffee breaks... As to their knowledge of linear attacks back then, the same thing applies; although we have no solid evidence, assuming they were up to today's level of analysis is not exactly going out on a limb. Now, this *is* going out on a limb (while contradicting my original statement :), but there's always the possibility that those S-boxes *were* as good as they could have been for 16 rounds, and there was an even more vile attack against DES with S-boxes which we think are more secure. ... > > Jim Gillogly > Trewesday, 8 Solmath S.R. 1998, 00:27 > 12.19.4.15.17, 8 Caban 15 Muan, Second Lord of Night --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Randall Farmer rfarmer@hiwaay.net http://hiwaay.net/~rfarmer From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Vipul Ved Prakash Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 22:48:42 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net (Cypherpunks) Subject: EU considers letting police snoop on Internet [fwd infobeat] Message-ID: <199801301956.TAA00281@fountainhead.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text *** EU considers letting police snoop on Internet European Union justice ministers agreed Thursday to consider letting police snoop on Internet users as a measure to tackle organized crime. Police, who fear the Internet is being used by international criminals for money laundering and other crimes, are currently barred from tapping into the computer messages. The ministers, gathered for an informal meeting in Birmingham, England, agreed police should be given new powers but added they should be tightly restricted so as not to damage the rapidly growing computer industry. See http://www.infobeat.com/stories/cgi/story.cgi?id=11230876-266 -- #!/usr/bin/perl eval unpack u,'J)",](DIU Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 05:47:14 +0800 To: "Random Q. Hacker" Subject: RebaNet Exclusive Message-ID: <19980130152058.0b149a6d.in@mail.marthastewart.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain For a limited time you can get a Reba T-shirt for only $10.00 ($16.00 value). For more information on this special offer, go to the following Internet address: http://www.reba.com/RebaNetExclusive Copyright 1998 Starstruck Entertainment, All rights reserved. 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Feel free to contact our account executive at: webmaster@breathlessboys.com http://www.breathlessboys.com/webmasters/ ------------------------------------------------------- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: John Young Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 10:09:53 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Why This List Is A Security Risk Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980131020517.00720848@pop.pipeline.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Setting policy on national security risk for the entire USG, the DoD proclaims a trustworthy person does not engage in the following: Sec. 147.14 Guideline L--Outside activities. (a) The concern. Involvement in certain types of outside employment or activities is of security concern if it poses a conflict with an individual's security responsibilities and could create an increased risk of unauthorized disclosure of classified information. (b) Conditions that could raise a security concern and may be disqualifying include any service, whether compensated, volunteer, or employment with: (1) A foreign country; (2) Any foreign national; (3) A representative of any foreign interest; (4) Any foreign, domestic, or international organization or person engaged in analysis, discussion, or publication of material on intelligence, defense, foreign affairs, or protected technology. ----- >From 32 CFR Part 147 published today. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 13:28:39 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: orlin grabbe on digital cash Message-ID: <199801310522.VAA17339@netcom13.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain from zolatimes, an interesting online newspaper also Orlin's site is an eyeful! ------- Forwarded Message From: Kris Millegan RoadsEnd Subject: Digital Cash and the Regulators To: CTRL@LISTSERV.AOL.COM from: http://zolatimes.com/ Laissez Faire City Times Newspaper - ----- Another fine issue, As always, . . . Om K - ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ January 29, 1998 - Volume 2, Issue 3 Editor & Chief: Emile Zola - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - - III-By J. Orlin Grabbe The City Times - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Digital Science Department Digital Cash and the Regulators by J. Orlin Grabbe """ Digital cash, like other forms of money, can be issued in any political or legal jurisdiction, or in any banking environment: Salt Lake City, the Cayman Islands, Cyprus, or Sidney. There is a great deal of flexibility available to the digital cash provider when viewed from a global perspective. Nevertheless, digital cash may operate locally under a set of rules and regulations similar to other forms of computer money such as bank deposits. ("Locally" can be almost any Internet-accessible country.) The question of how banking regulators view digital cash is a practical one, because the answers to the question demonstrate the sort of issues that arise in any banking context. All the examples here will involve the U.S., a country with a complex maze of banking regulations. >From the point of view of central bankers, digital cash generates three sorts of questions. Who issues it? How is it used as a means of payment? What impact does it have on the banking system balance sheet or bottom-line? Currency Competition and Seigniorage Digital cash is by design a partial substitute for ordinary cash. Hence it will be used in much the same fashion as ordinary cash--a context with which central bankers are familiar. To a certain extent, digital cash threatens the profitability inherent in central bank note issue. Consider traveler's checks. Traveler's checks are a form of private bank currency. They are analogous to the bank notes issued by private commercial banks in the U.S. prior to the Civil War. As such, they are very profitable to the banks and companies that issue them, because no interest is paid out on traveler's checks to the check holders, but the issuer earns interest on the funds that customers use to purchase them. When you purchase American Express Traveler's Checks, you are making an interest-free loan to American Express. That's why AMEX likes to sell them to you--apart from the fees involved in the transaction. As with traveler's checks, digital cash products such as electronic purses (a card with a memory chip on it) represent an attempt by commercial banks to capture part of the seigniorage earned by the central bank from issuing notes. Holders of currency (Federal Reserve notes) are making an interest-free loan to the government. The interest opportunity cost adds up. The approximate $20 billion that the Federal Reserve turned over to the U.S. Treasury in 1994, for example, represented about 5 percent of the $400 billion in Federal Reserve notes. The Bank for International Settlements (BIS) estimated that in the United States seigniorage is .43 percent of gross domestic product (GDP), while central bank (Federal Reserve) expenses are .03 percent of GDP, implying a profit of .40 percent of GDP. [1] These numbers can be used as a reference base to calculate the amount of seigniorage recapture available to providers of digital cash. Suppose that that digital cash was so successful for small purchases that it eliminated the U.S. $1, $5, $10, and $20 dollar bills. In that case, the BIS estimates the loss in seigniorage at .14 percent of GDP. Now it is highly unlikely that digital cash would replace all small denomination bills, as assumed in this calculation. But the calculation shows that up to one-third of current Federal Reserve seigniorage is potentially available to digital cash providers. And that's a lot of money. While some central banks may be concerned that digital cash will infringe on their monopoly of issuing bank notes (although most do not appear to be particularly alarmed), such a monopoly can be easily circumvented without computers and without telecommunications. All that is required for the success of any privately-issued currency is local acceptance as a means of payment for goods and labor. Consider, for example, HOURS, which is a local currency circulating in Ithaca, New York. Here is a brief (albeit dated) summary of the HOURS system. [2] HOURS is a local currency created and issued by citizens in Ithaca, New York. The organizers have issued over $50,000 in local paper money to over 950 participants since 1991. An estimated $500,000 of in HOURS-based transactions have taken place. The idea behind an HOUR is that it is a rough equivalent to a $10.00 bill. The unit was chosen because ten dollars per hour was the average wage paid in Tompkins County. HOUR notes come in four denominations, and have been used to buy goods and services like plumbing, carpentry, electrical work, roofing, nursing, chiropractic care, child care, car and bike repair, food, eyeglasses, firewood, and gifts. The local credit union accepts them for mortgage and loan fees. People pay rent with HOURS. Some of the best restaurants in town take them, as do movie theaters, bowling alleys, two large locally-owned grocery stores, and thirty farmer's market vendors. Everyone who agrees to accept HOURS is paid two HOURS ($20.00) for being listed in the newsletter Ithaca Money. Every eight months they may apply to be paid an additional two HOURS, as reward for continuing participation. This mechanism increases the per capita supply of HOURS. Ithaca Money contains 1200 member listings. HOUR loans are made without interest charges. Multi-colored HOURS bear serial numbers and are printed on hard-to-counterfeit locally-made watermarked cattail (marsh reed) paper. Naturally, HOUR payments are taxable income when received for professional goods or services. The organizers have created a guide to creating local currency, called a Hometown Money Starter Kit. The Kit explains the start-up and maintenance of an HOURS system, and includes forms, laws, articles, procedures, insights, samples of Ithaca's HOURS, and issues of Ithaca Money. They've sent the Kit to over 300 communities in 45 states. To get one, send $25.00 (or 2.5 HOURS) to Ithaca Money, Box 6578, Ithaca, NY. 14851. HOURS, much like traveler's checks, are an attempt to recapture a part of the currency seignoriage usually given up to the central bank. Like HOURS, digital cash does not require the approval of some central authority to form a viable mechanism. And the presence of seigniorage means that digital cash products can be highly profitable, for they simply arbitrage the difference between the cost of producing digital cash and the return available to the issuers of the medium of exchange. As we saw previously, the Federal Reserve made $20 billion of this arbitrage in 1994, after payment of all expenses. Is Digital Cash (Stored-Value) a Deposit? U.S. banking regulations distinguish broadly between deposit-issuing institutions and others. Thus the question whether the digital cash liability of a private company represents a deposit or not determines who might attempt to regulate it or whether it is eligible for federal deposit insurance. Some of these questions here are more important in a non-anonymous digital cash system than in an anonymous one. A depositor who is anonymous, or who wishes his transactions to remain private, is probably not interested in being identified for insurance purposes, or receiving regular bank statements detailing his financial activities. But, that having been said, a look at some representative regulations is important for the purpose of understanding the political and legal barriers to the creation of an anonymous digital cash system. Digital cash is a balance sheet liability of the commercial banks or companies that issue it. Does it thus fall under the laws governing ordinary checking accounts? And what about discharge of debt? In the case of the U.S., federal law does not currently address obligations discharged by stored value cards--only those settled by cash, check, or wire transfer. FDIC deposit insurance, which applies to most bank deposits, can be easily extended to stored value cards under the guise of a general liability account. The FDIC General Counsel has issued an opinion [3] that divides stored-value cards into four categories: ·Bank Primary-Customer Account Systems--where funds stay in the customer's account until they are transferred to a merchant or other payee (as with a debit card). These are considered customer "deposits" and covered by FDIC deposit insurance. ·Bank Primary-Reserve Account Systems--where funds are downloaded onto a customer's card (or software), and the bank's obligation is transferred to a reserve or general liability account to pay merchants and other payees. These are also considered issuer "deposits", and covered by FDIC insurance. ·Bank Secondary-Advance Systems--where a card issuer is a third party, the bank makes the cards available to customers, and customers pay the third party for the stored value using funds from their bank account. The stored-value funds in this case are not considered deposits, and are not covered. ·Bank Secondary-Pre-Acquisition Systems--where the card is issued by a third party, the bank pays the third party for the card value, and subsequently sells the stored value to customers. Again, the stored-value funds are not considered deposits, and are not covered. Non-banks, meanwhile, are not eligible for FDIC deposit insurance. But the question remains, If non-banks issue stored-value products, are these stored-value funds "deposits"? For if stored-value is legally a deposit, then federal and state regulators might attempt to deny a company or other entity the right to issue the product, using the Glass-Steagall Act or similar provisions. If stored value-products are "deposits," then a non-bank might also become subject to the jurisdiction of the Federal Trade Commission (12 U.S.C.A. 1831 t(e)) or might be treated as a bank for the purposes of the Bank Holding Company Act (12 U.S.C.A. 1841 (c)(1)). This is something to keep in mind before selecting Salt Lake City as your digital cash base. Nationally chartered banks are under the supervision of the Office of Comptroller of the Currency (OCC). The OCC has explicitly approved national bank participation in one digital cash system, Mondex, and in stored value systems generally, stating "national banks may under 12 U.S.C. 24(Seventh) engage in the business of Mondex USA", and also that "national banks may under 12 U.S.C. 24(Seventh) engage in the business of operating a stored value system". [4] In addition, the Federal Reserve has authorized bank-holding companies who own ATM networks to provide stored-value card systems through these networks. A Closer Look at Mondex Mondex is known as a stored value card system. "Stored value" simply means the money is stored on a memory chip on the Mondex card instead of, say, being stored as pieces of paper in your wallet. This "stored value" will be used in everyday purchase and sale transactions just like cash. Hence the chief function of the "stored value" is as a medium of exchange (and not, as the name might imply, as intertemporal savings--which is the usual meaning of the phrase "store of value" in economic discussions of money). The rights to Mondex are held by Mondex International Ltd., a U.K. limited liability company. Fifty-one percent of Mondex International is owned by MasterCard International, while a consortium of global banks owns the other 49 percent. The U.S. rights to Mondex have been purchased by a group of nationally-chartered U.S. banks, listed below. These U.S. banks have in turn formed two Delaware limited liability companies to operate Mondex. One of these two companies will act as a bank. It will create, sell, and redeem the "electronically stored value" (ESV) on Mondex cards. That is, it will trade other forms of U.S. dollars for value stored on the Mondex card. It will issue (sell) ESV for dollars, and it will redeem (buy back) ESV in exchange for dollars. ESV is thus just another form of money: dollars, if denominated in dollars; pounds, if denominated in pounds, and so on. From now on we will simply call the Mondex ESV "Mondex Dollars". The Delaware company acting as the bank is called an OLLC (Originator Limited Liability Company). Its liabilities will be the Mondex Dollars it issues against payment. The money the OLLC receives will be invested in U.S. government securities, and cash and cash-equivalents such as interbank deposits and overnight repurchase agreements. These are the OLLC assets. The holdings of cash and cash-equivalents is required in order to be able redeem Mondex Dollars on demand. The second Delaware company will act as a licensing and servicing entity. The equity in the two companies is divided up between Wells Fargo (30 percent), Texas Commerce Bank (20 percent), First National Bank of Chicago (10 percent), AT&T (10 percent), NOVUS (10 percent), and MasterCard (10 percent). In granting these nationally-chartered banks the right to operate a subsidiary which carries out digital cash operations, the OCC applied four criteria: (1) Is the operation related to banking? (2) Do the banks have sufficient control to disallow non-banking activities? (3) Is the banks' loss exposure limited? (4) Is the investment related to the banks' ordinary banking business? Since the OCC determined that the answers to these four questions were all "yes", it approved the Mondex proposal. Regulation E The Federal Reserve's Regulation E implements the Electronic Fund Transfer Act (EFTA). Under the guise of consumer protection, Regulation E requires various disclosures related to electronic funds transfer, as well as advance notice of changes in terms, transaction receipts, periodic statements, error resolution procedures, limitations on consumer liability, and restrictions on unsolicited giving of funds-transfer access-devices to consumers. On May 2, 1996, the Federal Reserve proposed to extend Regulation E to stored value cards. It would classify stored-value systems as "on-line", "off-line accountable", or "off-line unaccountable". On-line systems would be simple debit cards where accounts balances are stored in a central database, not on the card, and communication with the central facility is required for balance transfers. Off-line accountable systems are ones in which balances are recorded on the card, transactions do not have to be transmitted to a central facility to be pre-authorized, but where each transaction is stored and periodically transmitted to a central facility. Off-line unaccountable systems are those in which transactions are not pre-authorized, transactions are not traceable to a particular card, and the card's value is only recorded on the card itself. The Fed proposes to make both on-line and off-line accountable systems subject to Regulation E requirements on transaction receipts and dispute resolutions if the maximum value that can be loaded is greater than $100, but exempt if the maximum value is $100 or less. Off-line unaccountable systems allowing values greater than $100 would be subject to the Regulation E requirement on initial disclosure, but would be totally exempt with respect to payment transactions. On-line systems allowing values greater than $100 would have to meet all requirements of Regulation E, except for periodic statements, provided an account balance and account history is available on request. The Fed's proposal would thus seem to eliminate on-line anonymous systems (because of the transaction history requirement), but would allow for off-line anonymous systems under the "off-line unaccountable" option--as long as account withdrawals were recorded. A digital cash system like Mondex, operating out of Delaware, has to grapple with all these issues. This has the advantage that, having made the regulators happy, the Mondex owners can then aggressively market their product through all the usual banking and financial channels. But those who are looking to create a digital cash product where privacy and security are paramount will probably want to go off-shore and avoid the regulators to a great extent. But they will still be left with the more important, and practical, problem of making their customers happy. And they will still be looking to recapture some of the central bank seigniorage. Click for a Menu of Other Digital Cash Articles by J. Orlin Grabbe * * * [1] Bank for International Settlements, Implications for Central Banks of the Development of Electronic Money, Basle, October 1996. [2] Glover, Paul, "Creating Ecological Economics with Local Currency", undated manuscript. Glover's article contains a lot of grass-roots socialism that I don't agree with. But that is not material to the use of HOURS as an illustration of an alternative currency. [3] Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, "General Counsel's Opinion No. 8--Stored Value Cards," by William F. Kroener, III, General Counsel, FDIC, July 16, 1996. [4] Office of the Comptroller of the Currency, "Interpretations--Conditional Approval #220," published in Interpretations and Actions, December 1996. [30] Back to Home Page Quick Menu Visit the Button Shop - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Interactive Forum Digital Cash - Regulators E-mail the Editor - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ J. Orlin Grabbe is one of the leading experts in the expanding area of financial data encryption systems being developed for the new CyberEconomy. He is also one of the world's leading experts on international finance. His textbooks on the subject are ubiquitous in top universities worldwide. No serious student of international finance is unaware of who he is and what he has done. He is a Harvard Ph.D. While a professor at Wharton, he trained many of the top traders and derivatives experts as well as the "quants" who run Wall Street's automated computer trading systems. E-mail - ----- Aloha, He'Ping, Om, Shalom, Salaam. Em Hotep, Peace Be, All My Relations. Adieu, Adios, Aloha. Amen. Roads End Kris ========================================================================= To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] LISTSERV@LISTSERV.AOL.COM To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] LISTSERV@LISTSERV.AOL.COM Om ------- End of Forwarded Message From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 05:15:39 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: Chris Lewis's death? In-Reply-To: <199801152323.SAA14920@panix2.panix.com> Message-ID: <199801302059.VAA03267@basement.replay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Anonymous wrote: > > vznuri@netcom.com "Vladimir Z. Nuri" (nym for Dr. Dim) > > You mean, Vlad is Larry Detweiler and Dmitri Vulis in the same time? > Hmmm ... Vlad is Detweiler, but Vulis is a different kook. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Jim Choate Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 12:02:04 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer) Subject: FCC want to unclog Internet [CNN] Message-ID: <199801310401.WAA20675@einstein.ssz.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Forwarded message: > FCC CHIEF WANTS TO UNTANGLE INTERNET CONGESTION > > January 30, 1998 > Web posted at: 6:59 p.m. EST (2359 GMT) > > WASHINGTON (AP) -- The nation's top telecommunications regulator > wants to help ease the world wide wait on the Internet. > > Federal Communications Commission Chairman Bill Kennard doesn't have > a plan yet but said Friday that he intends to start looking into > ways to give companies incentives to provide more high-speed > connections into homes. That would help ease congestion on the > Internet. > > "One issue that I'm particularly interested in is finding ways that > we can foster more investment in high-capacity bandwidth. I believe > that our nation will have an ever-increasing appetite for bandwidth > -- for high capacity data transmission capabilities," he told > reporters during a briefing on his top goals for the year. [text deleted] ____________________________________________________________________ | | | The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate, | | but the desire to edit somebody elses words. | | | | Sign in Ed Barsis' office | | | | _____ The Armadillo Group | | ,::////;::-. Austin, Tx. USA | | /:'///// ``::>/|/ http://www.ssz.com/ | | .', |||| `/( e\ | | -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'- Jim Choate | | ravage@ssz.com | | 512-451-7087 | |____________________________________________________________________| From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 12:33:53 +0800 To: Subject: Re: History of radio regulation; scrutiny of elected officials Message-ID: <19980131042905.AAA4969@[12.67.34.192]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > >Which gave us the predecessor of today's FCC. The question, of course, is >if the justification for the FCC was to eliminate chaos, why did the >agency not just stop there? Why the indecency rules, must-carry regs, >fairness doctrine, overseeing network-station relationships, and so on? > >-Declan > This is the nature of regulatory agencies. The FDA for example was originally just supposed to make sure that foods and drugs were labeled properly and did what they were supposed to do. Now it wants to ban cloning and tobacco. > Decency, security, and liberty alike demand that > government officials shall be subjected to the same > rules of conduct that are commands to the citizens. > In a government of laws, existence of the government > will be imperilled if it fails observe the law > scrupulously. Our government is the potent, > omnipresent teacher. For good or ill, it teaches the > whole people by example. Crime is contageous. If > the government becomes a lawbreaker; it invites > every man to become a law unto himself; it invites > anarchy. To declare that in the administration of > the criminal law the end justifies the means -- > to declare that the government may commit crimes > to secure the conviction of a private criminal > -- would bring terrible retribution. Against that > pernicious doctrine this Court should resolutely > set its face. > > Olmstead v. US (1928) > >You remember Brandeis. He's the person who argued for >the *right* of privacy. Hardly a surprise, therefore, >that he would be so outspoken on the abuse of government >authority. > Jeez...expecting government officials to *obey* the *law*? Where do you think you live? So long as the economy is good you can do pretty much anything you want it seems. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Bill Stewart Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 17:26:38 +0800 To: John Young Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980130224619.00855500@popd.ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Eric Hughes was discussion out-of-band attacks on security systems, such as providing the target's employees with opportunities for "simultaneous employment" :-) However, as the last part of section (4) says, you've got to be careful of those suspicious foreign cryptographers.... At 09:05 PM 1/30/98 -0500, John Young wrote: >Setting policy on national security risk for the entire USG, >the DoD proclaims a trustworthy person does not engage in >the following: > >Sec. 147.14 Guideline L--Outside activities. > > (a) The concern. Involvement in certain types of outside employment >or activities is of security concern if it poses a conflict with an >individual's security responsibilities and could create an increased risk of >unauthorized disclosure of classified information. > (b) Conditions that could raise a security concern and may be >disqualifying include any service, whether compensated, volunteer, or >employment with: > (1) A foreign country; > (2) Any foreign national; > (3) A representative of any foreign interest; > (4) Any foreign, domestic, or international organization or person >engaged in analysis, discussion, or publication of material on >intelligence, defense, foreign affairs, or protected technology. > >>From 32 CFR Part 147 published today. Thanks! Bill Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF 3C85 B884 0ABE 4639 From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Gary Harland Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 15:17:18 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: RIP, Carl Gorman, Code Talker Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Mr. Carl Gorman, one of the few remaining Navajo 'Code-Talkers' of WWII fame, died yesterday of cancer at the age of 90. Along with his fellow Navajo, he encrypted military voice communication by using his native language over the radio in the Great American Imperialist Struggle against the Great Japanese Imperialist Initative. Just a few thoughts: - when asked why he helped America after all the abuse he took growing up as a Navajo, he basically said (my interpretation here) he was fighting to protect the Navajo, not particularily America, from the Japanese. A geographical dilemma. - aside from the NSA sucking up everything in sight relating to languages, doesn't Chomsky's theoretical 'Universal Syntax' (all human languages have an identical fundamental syntax) negate the effectiveness of the Code-Talker approach in the long run? - on the other hand, the lovely ambiguities of natural language would seem to be capable of effectively obscuring the meaning of the message even if the plaintext were revealed. For example, President Clinton's reference to 'blowjobs' not actually being a sexual act. While the President is innocently asking a normal person to provide him with a urgently needed act of personal hygiene, that person mistakingly would be thinking he wants oral sex. An effective obscuration of the Prez's message. - now-a-days of course, if the shoe were on the other foot, the Navy's NOSS satellite constellations would trianglate on the radio signal and feed the coordinates to one of the TDRS sat- ellites to target the crusie missles we just launched, effectively ending the conversation prematurely without regard to syntax. [Sexy Hi-Tech Option]. Using radio for passing encrypted comm seems to require a few non-traditional approaches. For example, using a repeater system that would present the NOSS satellites and any RDF equipment in the neighborhood with 'a thousand points of...' RF energy - the 'needle-in-the-haystack' approach. The source would be difficult to find amongst its many (presumedly cheap) clones. Oh well. Good bye Carl. Thanks for the help. Sorry we were such jerks. On the bright side - we're such third-rate fuckups it's a sure thing the Navajo will out-live us if they just hang in there a little bit longer. Your living to 90 was a fine example. Survival is always the best revenge. ----------------------------------------------------------------- foggy@netisle.net lat:47d36'32" long:122d20'12" "Rather perish than hate and fear, and twice rather perish than make oneself hated and feared." -F. Nietzche- ----------------------------------------------------------------- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Gary Harland Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 15:17:08 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: County Mounties Spit on the 4th Amendment Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain The Washington Post reported Jan. 30th that Prince George County (where dat?) police are collecting spit and fingerprints, not only from every suspect they interview in connection with the rape and murder of a nurse- administrator, but also from all 400 male hospital employees at the hospital the victim formerly worked at. The spit's for DNA testing and the fingerprints are just for the helluva it I guess. It's just a request mind you. If you refuse, you won't necessarily be con- sidered a suspect but the information you supply 'would certainly be under scrutiny' according to the Chief Thug of Prince George County. Oh! The 4th amendment? That dusty old thing? When the scumbags are kicking in your door which would you rather have protecting you: a raggedy old piece of paper or a Prince George County Mountie SWAT team in full ninja dress and the latest high-tech law-enforcement goodies? Thought so. Cup's at the end of the counter comrade. Have a nice day. ----------------------------------------------------------------- foggy@netisle.net lat:47d36'32" long:122d20'12" "Rather perish than hate and fear, and twice rather perish than make oneself hated and feared." -F. Nietzche- ----------------------------------------------------------------- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 14:12:36 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: History of radio regulation; scrutiny of elected officials In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Hey Declan, Did *you* get a blow job from Monica Lewinski? --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Anonymous Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 08:28:27 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: Interesting Chemical Reaction Message-ID: <199801310015.BAA00313@basement.replay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 17:36:28 -0500 > From: ghio@temp0200.myriad.ml.org (Matthew Ghio) > Subject: Re: Interesting Chemical Reaction > Here's something to ponder: > > Consider two objects initially at the same temperature. One is at the > focus of a hemispherical mirror. An elliptical mirror with both objects > at its foci encloses the remaining space. > > Because of the spherical mirror, the first object reabsorbs most of its > heat lost by radiation, but most of the second object's radiated heat is > reflected upon the first. Hence the first object becomes warmer relative > to the second. > > The entropy here appears to decrease, but according to thermodynamics that > is impossible. Can anyone explain how it is that the total entropy would > not decrease? Perpetual motion machines built on violations of thermodynamics involving hemispherical and ellipsoidal mirrors have been around for years. They don't work. The objects do not change temperature. Trace a ray from each object. In every direction, it hits an object which is at exactly the same temperature as it is. It may be itself, or it may be the other object. But in each case, the temperature is the same in all directions. The "sky" is the same temperature as the object, so it does not change temperature. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Rabid Wombat Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 05:53:32 +0800 To: Gary Harland Subject: Re: County Mounties Spit on the 4th Amendment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Prince George's County, MD is east and north of Washington, DC. The PG County police have already earned a reputation for L.A.P.D.-style abuse of civil rights. This case has been in the national news for days, now; PG Co. PD seems to have backed down, now that the ACLU has gotten involved. -r.w. On Fri, 30 Jan 1998, Gary Harland wrote: > > The Washington Post reported Jan. 30th that Prince George County (where > dat?) police are collecting spit and fingerprints, not only from every > suspect they interview in connection with the rape and murder of a nurse- > administrator, but also from all 400 male hospital employees at the hospital > the victim formerly worked at. > > The spit's for DNA testing and the fingerprints are just for the helluva > it I guess. > > It's just a request mind you. If you refuse, you won't necessarily be con- > sidered a suspect but the information you supply 'would certainly be under > scrutiny' according to the Chief Thug of Prince George County. > > Oh! The 4th amendment? That dusty old thing? When the scumbags are kicking > in your door which would you rather have protecting you: a raggedy old > piece of paper or a Prince George County Mountie SWAT team in full ninja > dress and the latest high-tech law-enforcement goodies? Thought so. Cup's > at the end of the counter comrade. Have a nice day. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > foggy@netisle.net lat:47d36'32" long:122d20'12" > "Rather perish than hate and fear, and twice rather perish than > make oneself hated and feared." -F. Nietzche- > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: aurapro@earthlink.net Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 22:43:47 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Electric Utility De-Regulation Message-ID: <199801311435.GAA22793@iceland.it.earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Hi ! January 1st was the official launch of the most powerful business opportunity in the history of networking. Here's your chance to get in on the ground floor and sieze an opportunity to take advantage of electric utility deregulation and realize some of those dreams you've been dreaming. When the telephone industry deregulated, millionares were made. At $215 Billion as an industry, Electric Utilities is 10 TIMES the opportunity that long distance telephone was. Don't delay! Get started now! We will provide full training and support. You are up and running within 48 hours - and low, low start-up costs! This IS the big one. You will have access to our advanced technology to help build your business because it is all in house as well as a generic website for you and all of those in your group! E-mail inquiries only - please leave your phone number and time to call (or call me) E-mail to: Electrifyme@juno.com OPPORTUNITIES ARE NEVER LOST ..... ........JUST FOUND BY SOMEONE ELSE !! Thanks for your time, John (413) 736-2442 /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// This Message was Composed using Extractor Pro Bulk E- Mail Software. If you wish to be removed from this advertiser's future mailings, please reply with the subject "Remove" and this software will automatically block you from their future mailings. //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 14:12:33 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Secure checksums Message-ID: <199801310605.HAA14285@basement.replay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Timmy May sits at his terminal dressed in five-inch stiletto heels, fishnet stockings, a gold-lame mini-skirt, a purple halter with girdle underneath to keep in his flabby gut, a Fredericks of Hollywood padded bra also underneath the halter, a cheap Naomi Sims pink afro wig, waiting to yank his crank whenever a black man responds to one of his inane rants. o \ o / _ o __| \ / |__ o _ \ o / o /|\ | /\ ___\o \o | o/ o/__ /\ | /|\ Timmy May / \ / \ | \ /) | ( \ /o\ / ) | (\ / | / \ / \ From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Uhh...this is Joe [Randall Farmer]" Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 00:23:48 +0800 To: Tim May Subject: Re: Predicting cipher life / NSA rigged DES? ... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > I had tended to not take too seriously the posts of someone who signs himself > as "Uhh...this is Joe," That was probably a good idea. > but the reasoning he displays below makes me take him more seriously: Ooh, bad move! :) > ...the amount of time should be replaced by "effort expended." That was what I meant, although my wording of it was sort of ambiguous; "years of analysis," "analysis-hours," etc. refer to the time the cryptographers actually spent on studying the cipher, not the time elapsed since the cipher's release. [...] > > --Tim May > > > The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography > ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- > Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, > ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero > W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, > Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. > "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Randall Farmer rfarmer@hiwaay.net http://hiwaay.net/~rfarmer From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 02:34:49 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: RIP, Carl Gorman, Code Talker In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain (As Gary seems to be a newcomer, let me remind him and others that "cypherpunks@toad.com" is not the place to send messages to the list. Please use one of the distributed addresses. It's been a year since the list moved off of toad.com. I wish John would just start bouncing messages sent to toad.com and be done with it.) At 11:16 PM -0800 1/30/98, Gary Harland wrote: >- when asked why he helped America after all the abuse he took >growing up as a Navajo, he basically said (my interpretation >here) he was fighting to protect the Navajo, not particularily >America, from the Japanese. A geographical dilemma. Never understimate the power of blind chauvinistic patriotism. Killing Japs was the honorable thing to do, even for Injuns. >- aside from the NSA sucking up everything in sight relating to >languages, doesn't Chomsky's theoretical 'Universal Syntax' (all >human languages have an identical fundamental syntax) negate the >effectiveness of the Code-Talker approach in the long run? "All crypto is economics." One doesn't have to jump to theoretical mumbo jumbo about a putative "identical fundamental syntax" to know that the Navajo code talkers were not using an unbreakable system. But what mattered is that, for the level of security needed on the battlefield, the system was "essentially secure" against Japanese translation. Sure, in time the Japanese could have found some experts on Navajo, could have trained their own code talker translators, etc. But they didn't have this time. (And if we posit "enough time," then the U.S. military would have had enough time to drop the Navajo code talkers and replace them with Ebonics code talkers. Dat be da jive, mo fo.) "All crypto is economics." --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Anonymous Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 18:40:54 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: stupid test (virus warning) Message-ID: <199801311025.LAA09936@basement.replay.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > .... you get an email from .ru address, with small .com file attached. > .... you think: "I shall run it!" > > .... you flunk. > > >DUUUUHHHH. >Hey, Mr. Lame .ru: give it up. The same could be said about anybody who actually thinks DOS/Windows machines have any semblence of security what so ever. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 03:11:13 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Dr Dobbs crypto CD Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain The DDJ I just got (March 98) has a full-page ad for the crypto CD (p.113) saying inter alia "New Release! fast Search Engine" Has anyone received even the "old release"? --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 03:50:45 +0800 To: cypherpunks@toad.com Subject: Re: RIP, Carl Gorman, Code Talker In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Tim May writes: > (As Gary seems to be a newcomer, let me remind him and others that > "cypherpunks@toad.com" is not the place to send messages to the list. > Please use one of the distributed addresses. It's been a year since the > list moved off of toad.com. I wish John would just start bouncing messages > sent to toad.com and be done with it.) When are cocksuckers John Gilmore and Guy Polis planning to die from AIDS? --- Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Robert Hettinga Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 06:21:54 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Feb. 6 column -- Where to start Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain --- begin forwarded text Resent-Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 02:08:34 -0700 X-Sender: vin@dali.lvrj.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 01:09:30 -0800 To: cathy@engr.colostate.edu From: Vin_Suprynowicz@lvrj.com (Vin Suprynowicz) Subject: Feb. 6 column -- Where to start Resent-From: vinsends@ezlink.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/430 X-Loop: vinsends@ezlink.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vinsends-request@ezlink.com FROM MOUNTAIN MEDIA FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE DATED FEB. 6, 1998 THE LIBERTARIAN, By Vin Suprynowicz Getting started S.J. writes from Johns Hopkins: "Vin -- I have found and enjoyed your web page (http://www.nguworld.com/vindex/). I am also recently reading David Boaz's book "Libertarianism: A Primer." I have been accused by professors of being a Libertarian. I really was not sure what one was. Thus my recent readings. I have many questions and no one to dialogue with. If you have time, could you tell me places I may check here in Washington D.C. ..." Egon, whose locale I don't know, similarly inquires: "... Incidently, I both enjoy and dread (reading your columns.) So few people realize how this country was intended. There is no other country in which the citizens are "sovereign," with all the rights of a king reserved to the people. But at the same time, the government has craftily changed things around. And so, the real question: Can you point me in a direction to information about how to help address these issues, or people to talk to about them?" # # # Since informing others must always start with informing ourselves, I suggested that both fellows they lay hands on a couple of recent catalogs from Laissez Faire Books, 938 Howard St., Suite 202, San Francisco 94103; tel. 415-541-9780; e-mail orders to orders@laissezfaire.org. Beginners may want to look for Thomas Szasz, Burton Folsom, Albert J. Nock, John Taylor Gatto, and Ayn Rand. Laissez Faire now lists L. Neil Smith's "Bretta Martin," which is good, but not "Pallas," which would be better. Also missing are John Ross' "Unintended Consequences" (Accuracy Press) and Claire Wolfe's "101 Things to Do Till the Revolution" (Loompanics.) It's also worth getting on the mailing list of the Cato Institute, at 100 Mass. Ave. NW, in Washington D.C., 20001 (tel. 202-842-0200), and of Bumper Hornberger's Future of Freedom Foundation (e-mail FFFVA@compuserve.com), in Northern Virginia. The Ludwig von mises Institute (owner-misesmail@colossus.net), tel. 334-844-2500 puts out some nifty economic publications, and for e-mail on jury rights issues you can't beat the Jury Rights Project, e-mail jrights@levellers.org; web page www.lrt.org/jrp.homepage.htm. Leading the new battle against the national ID card is the Coalition to Repeal the Fingerprints Law, Suite 133, 5446 Peachtree Industrial Blvd., Atlanta 30341; voice mail 404-250-8105; web site www.atlantainfoguide.com/repeal/. I seem to have fallen out of touch with the Separation of School and State Alliance, based in California; maybe they'll send me some up-to-date contact information. President Brenda Grantland tells me the group Forfeiture Endangers American Rights has recently opened an office in D.C., and may be in a position to welcome volunteer help as well as contributions. Contact Interim Director Tom Gordon at the F.E.A.R. Foundation, P.O. Box 15421 Washington, D.C. 20003; tel. 202-546-4381, or toll free at 1-888-FEAR-001; e-mail TomGordon@fear.org; web site http://www.fear.org. Other groups worth contacting for information -- and supporting with donations or volunteer help -- include the Fully-Informed Jury Association at Box 59, Helmville, Montana 59843, tel. 406-793-5550, and Aaron Zelman's Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership, 2874 S. Wentworth Ave., Milwaukee, Wisc. 53207, tel. 414-769-0760 (web site http://www.JPFO.org; e-mail Against-Genocide@JPFO.org.) JPFO welcomes "righteous goyim," or non-Jews, and in fact never even asks prospective members their religion. I used to think JPFO was the only truly principled gun-rights organization in the nation, holding that ANY "gun control" is an inevitable precursor to new genocides. I am now, finally, ready to submit that there are two. I have been watching for some years the development of Larry Pratt's Gun Owners of America, based at 8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102, Springfield, Va. 22151; tel. 703-321-8585; web site http://www.gunowners.org; e-mail goaslad@aol.com. Folks have always called GOA "the other gun group," in deference to the massive and cholesterol-clogged National Rifle Association. Enemies of freedom always enjoy caricaturing ther NRA as a bunch of buck-toothed hunters in plaid shirts, blasting away at Bambi with a bazooka. But let me make a fearless prediction right here: as the lean little GOA strides onto their battlefield like an adolescent saber-tooth, the forces of victim disarmament are going to start waxing reminiscent about the warm, happy days when their only "opposition" was that walnut-brained brontosaurus, the NRA. The NRA's lobbying philosophy has long been to ridicule Libertarians or Independents who may be TRUE devotees of our Second Amendment rights, instead cynically endorsing and even funding the "lesser of two evils" among the two candidates representing the Republicrat and Demopublican branches of the Big Government Party. This NRA spending and lobbying philosophy is all about "buying access," but as Mr. Pratt of GOA says, "It's all based on a defeatist attitude. They think we've lost, that we have a bad bargaining position, so all we can do is make the best deal we can with this tyrant." Recently, NRA lobbyists have even twisted arms in state legislatures around the nation to INCREASE the cost and "training" rigmarole required to lay hands of a state "concealed carry permit" ... the better to insure the standards are the same nationwide. GOA thinks permit requirements should be identical in every state, too ... identical to the current law in Vermont, which requires no permit for concealed carry, at all, and which has "the lowest murder rate in the country," smiles Mr. Pratt. "But the 'access' lobbyists, if their approach was right, why do we keep losing ground?" Pratt asked his enthusiastic Las Vegas crowd. Next time: The GOA plays hardball. Vin Suprynowicz is the assistant editorial page editor of the Las Vegas Review-Journal. Readers may contact him via e-mail at vin@lvrj.com. The web site for the Suprynowicz column is at http://www.nguworld.com/vindex/. The column is syndicated in the United States and Canada via Mountain Media Syndications, P.O. Box 4422, Las Vegas Nev. 89127. *** Vin Suprynowicz, vin@lvrj.com "If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains set lightly upon you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." -- Samuel Adams --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/ Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Robert Hettinga Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 06:21:24 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Feb. 8 coilumn -- GOA Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain --- begin forwarded text Resent-Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 02:11:43 -0700 X-Sender: vin@dali.lvrj.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 01:12:36 -0800 To: cathy@engr.colostate.edu From: Vin_Suprynowicz@lvrj.com (Vin Suprynowicz) Subject: Feb. 8 coilumn -- GOA Resent-From: vinsends@ezlink.com X-Mailing-List: archive/latest/431 X-Loop: vinsends@ezlink.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: vinsends-request@ezlink.com FROM MOUNTAIN MEDIA FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE DATED FEB. 8, 1998 THE LIBERTARIAN, By Vin Suprynowicz Second Amendment: changing of the guard Last time, we were discussing the "take-the-best-available-compromise," defeatist attitude of the nation's largest gun control organization, the National Rifle Association. Their lighter, leaner competition for gun owner support, Gun Owners of America, prefers a more high-pressure approach, putting the fire to the feet of lawmakers to make sure they know that a vote against gun rights will cost them their next election ... just as Bill Clinton acknowledged that the gun rights vote cost the Democratic Party its control of Congress in 1994. In a 1968 edition of the NRA's magazine, "The American Rifleman," Associate Editor Alan C. Webber responded to then-timely criticism by U.S. Sen. Robert Kennedy, D-N.Y., who said "I think it is a terrible indictment of the National Rifle Association that they haven't supported any legislation to ban and control the misuse of rifles and pistols in this country." To this, Mr. Webber reports NRA Executive Vice President Franklin L. Orth responded with a ringing endorsement of the 1968 Gun Control Act. "The National Rifle Association has been in support of workable, enforceable gun control legislation since its very inception in 1871," Mr. Orth proclaimed. "The duty of Congress is clear. It should act now to pass legislation that will keep undesirables, including criminals, drug addicts and persons adjudged mentally irresponsible or alcoholic, or juveniles, from obtaining firearms through the mails." One will remember that the way the 1968 law accomplished that, was by banning EVERYONE but an ever-shrinking pool of federally licensed gun dealers from "obtaining firearms through the mails"! Sort of like "getting drunks off the road," by banning cars and trucks! "The NRA position, as stated by Orth, emphasizes that the NRA has consistently supported gun legislation which it feels would penalize misuse of guns, without harassing law-abiding hunters, target shooters and collectors," concludes editor Webber. What an interesting list. Do you see "militiamen" in there? I don't. Does the Second Amendment say anything about duck-hunting? The Brits, who have just finished banning all private ownership of handguns, insist THEY still protect the "rights of law-abiding hunters, target shooters, and collectors," too. If you have an English country estate, you can still own a richly-engraved, $5,000 bird gun. If you like to target shoot, you may fire pellet guns or even .22s at your registered club ... so long as you leave the weapon locked up there when you go home. And "collectors" are still presumably welcome to own as many guns as they want ... from the flintlock era or earlier. Gee, that'll put them in great shape the next time the Germans or French come storming the beaches. Which is precisely why OUR Second Amendment talks exclusively about the needs of "the militia." Meantime, Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms agents holding a panel discussion for an audience of mostly gun store owners at this week's SHOT Outdoor Trades show, here in Las Vegas, declared that the way they interpret the "permanent replacement Brady Bill" due to go into effect in November of 1998 -- the one the NRA favors due to its promised "insta-Check" capability -- will call for a "Brady check" and permanent record of every LONG GUN purchase, as well. The NRA operates, in effect, as nothing but a public relations outreach arm for the Republican Party, tasked to convince gun rights advocates that the GOP is their only hope. But Newt Gingrich promised us that if only we would elect a GOP majority to Congress there would be "no more gun control passed" on his watch, didn't he? Mind you, that's a pretty modest promise, compared to the Libertarian Party platform plank on guns, which calls for ALL existing gun control laws to be immediately REPEALED. But not only have Mr. Gingrich's Republicans failed to repeal the major federal gun control acts of 1933 and 1968, not only have they failed to repeal the Brady Bill and the Feinstein-Schumer "assault weapons ban" (as they promised), but they actually ENACTED the so-called Anti-Terrorism Bill with the Lautenberg Amendment, which retroactively strips police and many other citizens of their gun rights based on any prior domestic misdemeanor convictions (shouting at your kids). And then, not satisfied, they went on to pass the "Gun Free School Zone Act" ... TWICE! Putting him to the test of fire, I asked Larry Pratt of GOA last week whether he would favor allowing a 17-year-old girl to walk into a hardware store, buy and take home a belt-fed .30-caliber machine gun, without signing her name, showing any ID, or applying for any kind of government "permit." "Well, that's the way it would have been in 1933, before the National Firearms Act, wouldn't it?" he asked. "Is that a yes?" I asked back. Mr. Pratt, in front of a sizeable public gathering at the San Remo Hotel and Casino, said "Yes." And that's why I think we're about to see a changing of the guard when it comes to gun-rights lobbying, from the arthritic and the defeated, to the aggressive, the fearless, and the principled. Congressman Ron Paul, R-Tex., has called Gun Owners of America "the only no-compromise gun lobby in Washington." With a fraction of the NRA's manpower, membership or budget, GOA has defeated powerful state legislative committee chairmen (in Ohio) who were foolish enough to support more gun control, and has helped elect congressmen like Roscoe Bartlett of Maryland, currently sponsor of HR27, the Citizens Self-Defense Act, which would "protect the right to obtain ... and to use firearms in defense of self, family or home." Unless they change their stripes with fearsome speed, I fear the NRA and their hog-trough affiliate, the Republican Party as we've known it, are headed for the elephant's graveyard, and soon. On the other hand, if Gun Owners of America sold stock, I'd be buying. Vin Suprynowicz is the assistant editorial page editor of the Las Vegas Review-Journal. Readers may contact him via e-mail at vin@lvrj.com. *** Vin Suprynowicz, vin@lvrj.com "If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains set lightly upon you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." -- Samuel Adams --- end forwarded text ----------------- Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/ Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Martin Minow Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 16:45:44 +0800 To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net Subject: Re: RIP, Carl Gorman, Code Talker In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > >- aside from the NSA sucking up everything in sight relating to >languages, doesn't Chomsky's theoretical 'Universal Syntax' (all >human languages have an identical fundamental syntax) negate the >effectiveness of the Code-Talker approach in the long run? > Not really; at its core, Chomsky's theory is a claim that every human can learn any human language -- something that 2-year old infants prove every day. I.e., nothing in language is specific to any particular human social or racial group: the differences are learned. There is a fair body of research that indicates that, after (roughly) puberty, humans do not learn foreign languages in the same way that infants learn their first language; but rather overlay the new language on top of their existing language. >- on the other hand, the lovely ambiguities of natural language >would seem to be capable of effectively obscuring the meaning of >the message even if the plaintext were revealed. The code talkers used a variety of puns and allegorical metaphors to hide the underlying meaning from someone who could translate Navaho but lacked the overall shared culture of the Navaho sailors. During the 1940's, only a handful of non-Navaho (generally linguists) were fluent in the language (probably less than two dozen). Incidently, in a recent episode of the South Bronx tv series, a crime was solved because a black policeman was fluent in Japanese. Martin Minow minow@apple.com From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: xxx4free@xxxpics.org Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 09:19:03 +0800 To: Subject: ONLY READ IF INTERESTED IN FREE PORN, OTHERWISE DELETE Message-ID: <84675145_40932584> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Hi there! want free porn? how about my nude pic? want pics that are updated every day? Or how about membership to XXX Adult sites, where the bill is payed by us?!? How about FREE live sex? If you do then visit http://www.xxxpics.org for the BEST xxx pics, updated daily, LIVE SEX, AVIs, MPEGS, and more!!!!! So hurry! and visit http://www.xxxpics.org Thank you for your time. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: "Attila T. Hun" Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 04:08:35 +0800 To: John Young Subject: Re: Why This List Is A Security Risk In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19980131020517.00720848@pop.pipeline.com> Message-ID: <19980131.194552.attila@hun.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >(4) Any foreign, domestic, or international organization or person >engaged in analysis, discussion, or publication of material on >intelligence, defense, foreign affairs, or protected technology. that must be why the federal assholes have always denied aps for clearance, we are bunch of fucking subversives! of course, I know better than that: more than once having told representatives of the criminal class that I may sell my services on the market, but I am not your, not my, government's whore. unfortunately, (yeah, right!) they have taken a dim view of me --and most anyone I associate with. well, fuck 'em if they cant take a joke --criticism is part of freedom and when the govcritters figure out they represent us, not own us; and when they stop hypocritically dictating policy to the rest of the world, maybe we'll have something to talk about. and, if that last statement comes true, I'll not only believe in the tooth fairy, but I'll throw in the fairy godmother for a bonus. shit, I'll even toss in a godfather or two... attila out... grousing === whole text from jya === on or about 980130:2105, in <1.5.4.32.19980131020517.00720848@pop.pipeline.com>, John Young was purported to have expostulated to perpetuate an opinion: >Setting policy on national security risk for the entire USG, the DoD >proclaims a trustworthy person does not engage in the following: >Sec. 147.14 Guideline L--Outside activities. > (a) The concern. Involvement in certain types of outside employment >or activities is of security concern if it poses a conflict with an >individual's security responsibilities and could create an increased risk >of unauthorized disclosure of classified information. > (b) Conditions that could raise a security concern and may be >disqualifying include any service, whether compensated, volunteer, or >employment with: > (1) A foreign country; > (2) Any foreign national; > (3) A representative of any foreign interest; > (4) Any foreign, domestic, or international organization or person >engaged in analysis, discussion, or publication of material on >intelligence, defense, foreign affairs, or protected technology. >----- >>From 32 CFR Part 147 published today. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: 2.6.3i Charset: latin1 Comment: No safety this side of the grave. Never was; never will be iQBVAwUBNNOCwrR8UA6T6u61AQFmvwH/QPMS8SgEbHuwAMDYcTdQe2hkYALuqnyk 3uPGfN1psh7k+saOLFchVVGSpmTriYVPpnM5kKK/RSx/UqCMqLxqmw== =GBIt -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Gary Harland Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 13:31:47 +0800 To: cypherpunks@ssz.com Subject: Re: RIP, Carl Gorman, Code Talker Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Tim May responded on Sat. January 31, 1998.... >>- aside from the NSA sucking up everything in sight relating to >>languages, doesn't Chomsky's theoretical 'Universal Syntax' (all >>human languages have an identical fundamental syntax) negate the >>effectiveness of the Code-Talker approach in the long run? >> > "All crypto is economics." One doesn't have to jump to theoretical > mumbo > jumbo about a putative "identical fundamental syntax" to know that the > Navajo code talkers were not using an unbreakable system. If there is a universal syntax, you could very quickly whip up a framework for the language involved and at least be able to identify nouns, verbs, etc. Then with each commun- ication expand and specify. I don't know if that's possible and therefore don't know if it's 'theoretical mumbo-jumbo'. It doesn't sound too far-fetched but then I'm an optomistic kinda guy eh. > But what mattered is that, for the level of security needed on the > battlefield, the system was "essentially secure" against Japanese > translation. Sure, in time the Japanese could have found some experts > on > Navajo, could have trained their own code talker translators, etc. But > they > didn't have this time. (And if we posit "enough time," then the U.S. > military would have had enough time to drop the Navajo code talkers > and > replace them with Ebonics code talkers. Dat be da jive, mo fo.) We had plenty of time in Somalia to capture 'Warlord' Aidide. Not only did we fail to capture him, he rubbed it in with a daily radio program. We couldn't find the ever-moving trans- mitter let alone close it down. I well remember our top Butt Sniffer in Somalia royally pissed off on TV vowing that we'd throw everything we had into the hunt and bring him to justice. Aidide was still standing there, flipping us The Bird as we left. My impression was that the Somalies 'under-teched' us. Being dirt-poor must have made that an easy decision. But they executed it very well. The most powerful, technologically soph- isticated military machine in human history found itself groping stupidly in the dark when up against a non-tech foe. We're obviously utterlly and completely dependent on our toys. Take our batteries away and we're S.O.L. > "All crypto is economics." > > --Tim May Hmmm...There it is again. It's interesting but a bit ambiguous. ----------------------------------------------------------------- foggy@netisle.net lat:47d36'32" long:122d20'12" "Rather perish than hate and fear, and twice rather perish than make oneself hated and feared." -F. Nietzche- ----------------------------------------------------------------- From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Tim May Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 13:52:47 +0800 To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Subject: Re: RIP, Carl Gorman, Code Talker In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 9:26 PM -0800 1/31/98, Gary Harland wrote: > If there is a universal syntax, you could very quickly > whip up a framework for the language involved and at least > be able to identify nouns, verbs, etc. Then with each commun- > ication expand and specify. I don't know if that's possible > and therefore don't know if it's 'theoretical mumbo-jumbo'. If you say so... > We had plenty of time in Somalia to capture 'Warlord' Aidide. > Not only did we fail to capture him, he rubbed it in with a > daily radio program. We couldn't find the ever-moving trans- > mitter let alone close it down. I well remember our top Butt > Sniffer in Somalia royally pissed off on TV vowing that we'd ???? >> "All crypto is economics." >> >> --Tim May > Hmmm...There it is again. It's interesting but a bit ambiguous. I apologize to the Cypherpunks for responding seriously to Gary Harland. I should've waited to see a few more of his posts, to figure out whether he's a nitwit or is just trolling. --Tim May The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, ComSec 3DES: 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets, Higher Power: 2^2,976,221 | black markets, collapse of governments. "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway." From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Bill Frantz Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 14:14:13 +0800 To: Tim May Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain At 10:29 AM -0800 1/31/98, Tim May wrote: >But what mattered is that, for the level of security needed on the >battlefield, the system was "essentially secure" against Japanese >translation. Sure, in time the Japanese could have found some experts on >Navajo, could have trained their own code talker translators, etc. But they >didn't have this time. (And if we posit "enough time," then the U.S. >military would have had enough time to drop the Navajo code talkers and >replace them with Ebonics code talkers. Dat be da jive, mo fo.) When I was in China, I noted that French accented English was "essentially secure" against understanding by our Chinese hosts. We Americans did a lot of English to English translation on that trip. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Frantz | Market research shows the | Periwinkle -- Consulting (408)356-8506 | average customer has one | 16345 Englewood Ave. frantz@netcom.com | teat and one ball. | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: hoket@usa.net Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 04:17:42 -0800 (PST) To: hoket@usa.net Subject: FREE $600 Worth of Software !!! 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On December 1, 1997, Spain's Supreme Court convicted the entire leadership of Herri Batasuna of "collaborating with an armed group" and sentenced them to seven years each in prison for attempting to show a video (The Democratic Alternative), a proposal for cease-fire and peace from the Basque armed organization ETA during an election campaign broadcast last year. The court failed to prove the participation of each of the 23 politicians in the decision to broadcast the video and thus, it violates the principle of the presumption of innocence. The judges considered that a crime was committed when in fact the video had never been broadcasted. Moreover, the judges applied Franco's Penal Code, which declared the crime of "collaborating with an armed band" as any type of collaboration with the activities and goals of an armed group. It thus criminalizes the role of intermediary in disseminatiing negotiating positions or peace proposals in a bitter and long standing conflict. When Herri Batasuna first showed the video in public meetings in early 1996, Spain's National Court (Franco's Tribunal of Public Order renamed) banned the video. The then Socialist government--more than 14 of whose police and senior government officials and a Civil Guard general have been formally charged for their involvement in the creation, funding, and activities of the death squads that killed at least 28 suspected Basque activists in the mid 1980s--instructed the attorney general to investigate whether Herri Batasuna should be outlawed. Herri Batasuna then attempted to use segments of the ETA video to disseminate the peace proposal in their election campaign but its broadcast was banned. In May 1996, the Socialist lost the general elections to the Partido Popular (Popular Party, founded by Franco's Minister of Interior). In January 1997, Spain's Supreme Court decided to prosecute the 23 leaders of Herri Batasuna. Over 30,000 people rallied in February in the Basque city of Bilbo to protest the prosecution of the Herri Batasuna leadership. The demonstration, which was initially peaceful, turned into a violent confrontation when the police opened fire with live ammunition, wounding several people. In June, an International Commission for Freedom of Expression presented the Manifesto to the Public Opinion and the International Community in support of free speech and opposition to the trial against Herri Batasuna. The president of Sinn Fein, Gerry Adams, and other distinguished individuals are among the 700 signatories who endorsed the Manifesto. International observers from human rights organizations in eleven countries watching the proceedings issued a joint statement saying that the accused were given the burden of proof which "violates the fundamental principle of the presumption of innocence." Basque political parties have strongly criticized the sentences, saying that the trial was politically motivated and dashed hopes for a peace dialogue. Herri Batasuna attorneys said that nothing had been proven and that the trial was intended to outlaw a political party which represents much of the vote of the Basque people. They will appeal the sentence. From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003 From: Success@27194.com Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 21:14:08 -0800 (PST) To: Friend@public.com Subject: BulkEmailDoneForYou Message-ID: <122802130356.GAA08056@nowhere.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain 

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: mibe@prodigy.com
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 19:10:25 -0800 (PST)
To: mibe@prodigy.com
Subject: Sneak Preview
Message-ID: <199801033634DAA21776@post.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 1wmsi043o@worktow1est.com
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 20:56:51 -0800 (PST)
To: eduacation@children423.net
Subject: Give Your Child "One of the Best Children's Videos""
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bairuana8@juno.com
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 00:41:24 -0800 (PST)
To: bairuana8@juno.com
Subject: rush rush
Message-ID: <19980103916SAA8876@post.penzberg.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


     
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: eureka@eureka.abc-web.com
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 01:59:28 -0800 (PST)
To: All Eureka! Subscribers: ;
Subject: Eureka! Sat Jan 3 '98
Message-ID: <19980103082548.18031.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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If you would like to unsubscribe from the Eureka! Newsletter
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------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 07:40:23 -0800 (PST)
To: Recipient List Suppressed:;
Subject: E-Cash cost advantage acknowledged
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Remember all the stuff I say about the markedly reduced costs of digital
bearer transactions?

Wanna bet that if a bunch of big bankers say the cost reduction one order
of magnitude, given Moore's Law and a little programming elbow grease, we
can bring it down to three?

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga


--- begin forwarded text


X-Sender: schear@mail.lvdi.net (Unverified)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 23:01:06 -0800
To: rah@shipwright.com
From: Steve Schear 
Subject: E-Cash cost advantage acknowledged

The vast cost advantages of e-cash transactions was acknowledged in a
Banking Industry Technology Secretariat (BITS) paper presented at last
year's Electronic Payment Forum meeting in Hilton Head, SC on July 17-18,
1997.
http://www.epf.net/PrevMtngs/July97Mtng/Presentations/Schutzer/index.htm
BITS, a Division of The Bankers Roundtable, members are the 125 largest
U.S. holding companies represent 70% of financial assets and deposits in
the United States and employ over 1 million people.

Projections provided by Salomon Brothers, Nilson Report, Financial
Institutions and Markets, and Boston Consulting Group, show e-cash
transaction costs easily outdistance ACH/EFT by a factor of 10.  Credit
cards will be about 40 times as costly.  Even the highly touted ECP
(Electronic Check Payment) approaches are likely to be 20 times as
expensive.

What is most interesting is that despite this acknowledgement almost all
the BITS member institutions are pursuing a path away from e-cash and
second place EFT embracing higher margin (and higher merchant/consumer
cost) alternatives, for example VISACash (cash in name only).  In fact,
many major banks see EFT/POS (and e-cash) is a threat to their franchises
and have moved to keep them from expansion through non-competitive
practices and regulatory pressure.

--Steve


PGP mail preferred, see  	http://www.pgp.com and
				http://web.mit.edu/network/pgp.html

RSA fingerprint: FE90 1A95 9DEA 8D61  812E CCA9 A44A FBA9
RSA key: http://keys.pgp.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=index&search=0x55C78B0D
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Schear              | tel: (702) 658-2654
CEO                       | fax: (702) 658-2673
First ECache Corporation  |
7075 West Gowan Road      |
Suite 2148                |
Las Vegas, NV 89129       | Internet: schear@lvdi.net
---------------------------------------------------------------------

	I know not what course others may take; but as for me,
	give me ECache or give me debt!

	"It's your CacheŞ"



--- end forwarded text



-----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/
Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: 






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ruemou32@cc1.kuleuven.ac.be (Floodgate)
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 09:23:44 -0800 (PST)
To: ruemou32@cc1.kuleuven.ac.be
Subject: Bulk Email For Profit
Message-ID: <199801031623UAA45320@post.ast.cam.ac.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



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(really more with the free form filter) File Formats

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


SEND OUT 20,000+ MARKETING LETTERS EVERY SINGLE DAY!

Or...every few days. In fact, when I send out just a few thousand marketing letters each day, it doesn't take long before I'm completely swamped with email inquiries and phone calls. This is very easy to do. And each one of these bulk mailings costs me nothing. I can teach you how to do this and provide you with the tools you'll need.

If you've got a good marketing letter, I'll show you how to open the floodgates. You'll be deluged with inquiries, leads, and real sales, using nothing but email alone.

Writing a good marketing letter is not easy. I often have to rewrite my marketing letters a half dozen times before I get the results I'm looking for. But once you have a good letter, as you probably know, you can use the same letter over and over again, predictably and consistently, closing sales, week after week, month after month.

It takes me about one hour to send my marketing letter to THOUSANDS of fresh email addresses. I can do this, thanks to a Windows program I use. It's called Floodgate and Goldrush Stealth Mass Mailer. It's a bulk email loader and an email software program. If you're interested in electronic marketing, you should know about these programs.

PROGRAM #1: FLOODGATE FOR WINDOWS

The Floodgate Bulk Email Loader imports simple text files that anyone can download from CompuServe, Prodigy, Delphi Genie, or the Internet. These text files contain classified ads, forum messages, or data from the member directory. Each of these files is filled with email addresses.

Floodgate is designed to read these files and strip out the email addresses. It then sorts the addresses, removes any duplicates, and formats them into an output file, with 10, 20 or 30 addresses per line. This is all done in one simple step. Just point and click.

You'll need either a Windows based Internet account or an America On-line account to send out your marketing letters. Neither AOL nor the Internet charges to send email. Send your letter to 1,000 people or 10,000 people -- the cost is always the same. NOTHING!

NEW! PREPARE A MAILING OF 50,000+ 
IN LESS THAN A 1/2 HOUR

If you open an Internet account, you can send each letter to 20,000+ people. The new Floodgate now directly writes distribution lists. Some people are always collecting new addresses, but if you publish a newsletter or adsheet, you'll be using the same addresses over and over again. That's real power! When using addresses you've previously collected, you can press a few buttons and prepare a mailing of 50,000+ in less than a half hour.

(To get a list of all the Internet access providers in your local calling area goto: http://thelist.com and click on your area code.)

The Floodgate Users Guide will teach you, step by step, how to download the right files, how to strip the addresses, and finally, how to cut and paste the formatted addresses into your marketing letter. Or, if you have an Internet account, how to create distribution lists. One you've done this a few times you won't even have to think. It's that simple!

FOR THE BRAVE & DARING: PUSHING TECHNOLOGY TO ITS LIMITS

As you may know, the practice of sending unsolicited email is usually frowned upon, and most service providers have rules against it. But, like jay-walking, there is little enforcement. It's not illegal. If someone tells you that it is, ask them to provide the citation (and don't let them give you some nonsense about faxes - that's not email). They can't do it because it's not there. Sometimes, when a lot of people complain, I get a warning letter. And that's about it.

About 1 in 200 will write back and tell me, "take me off the list", which I can do, thanks to Floodgates Remove List feature. Many people reply back thanking me for sending them my informative letter. That's always nice. Most people though, just reply and say, "send me more info." In this way, it usually takes me two or three letters to close a sale.

The Floodgate Users Guide will provide you with proven formats for writing a successful marketing letter. You'll test and rewrite, test and rewrite. Then, once you've got it, just push a few buttons, and open the floodgates!!!

THE FLOODGATE BULK EMAIL LOADER CURRENTLY SUPPORTS 17+ FILE FORMATS

1. CompuServe Classifieds: Send your marketing letter to everyone who is running a classified ad. I'll teach you how to download all the classifieds from any single ad category. This is one of the most responsive list of buyers. They check their email every day and they're already in business.

2. America On-line Classifieds: Download 1,000 addresses in 15 minutes. These are excellent lists for business to business sales.

3. CompuServe Forums: You can join a forum and download hundreds of forum messages in a matter of minutes.

4. America On-line Forums: Choose from dozens of forums. All good targeted lists.

5. Prodigy Forums: Prodigy allows you to easily export any group of forum messages. More targeted lists.

6. Internet Newsgroups: These are all targeted lists. You'll be able to send your marketing letter to everyone who posts a message in any newsgroup. Easily collect 1,000's of addresses per hour.

7. America On-line Member Directory: Most member directories only allow you to search by city and state. With AOL, you can search by business type, hobbies, computer type, etc. This is the gem of all
member directories. Build huge targeted lists.

8. CompuServe Member Directory: This is a major resource. If you're willing to target your mailing to a single city, you can collect about 1,000 email addresses an hour.

9. Delphi Member Directory: The Delphi member directory allows you to search for people based on key words. These are good targeted mailing lists. A single search can easily generate 5,000 addresses.

10. Genie Member Directory: Similar to the CompuServe member directory, only you can download names much quicker. You can easily pull hundreds of thousands of addresses out of each of these member directories.

11. CompuServe File Cabinet: If you run classified ads, and save the responses in the CIM file cabinet, you'll be able to easily reuse these addresses. You can send your marketing letter to everyone in any single folder. Build master lists and clean UP your hard drive.

12. Free Form: If you have a text file with email addresses that floodgate does not support, chances are the Free Form filter will be just what you need. Just enter a key word to search for.

13. CompuServe Form Profiles (Forum Membership Directories): Easy to build targeted lists here. Each search can easily bring you 500+
addresses.

14. Genie Profiles: If you're building targeted lists, you'll get a lot of addresses very quickly from Genie.

15. Plain Addresses: Read Floodgate Master Files back into Floodgate to merge files and do selective mailings. Also useful for the management of email address lists that you might purchase.

Floodgate also has filters to allow you to include or exclude any groups of addresses in your final distribution lists. For example, you could include only email addresses that ended in .com or exclude all with .gov. You could exclude all noc, root, and other addresses that almost guarantee a negative response. These filters are fully configurable and can be used together.

BUILD REUSABLE MASTER FILES

Floodgate maintains Master Files for each of your marketing letters. If you download from the same place on a regular basis, you only want to send your letter to the new people. Floodgate will compare the new addresses with those in the Master File, and prepare a mailing list of only new people. The new addresses are, of course, then added to the Master File. With each new mailing your Master File grows and grows.

You may create as many Master Lists as you need. When you start a new marketing campaign, you'll want to send your new letter to everyone on your Master List. If you write a newsletter, each time you send your newsletter, you'll send it to everyone on a Master List.

THE REMOVE LIST

Very often, people will reply and tell you to take them off your mailing list. Place these addresses in the REMOVE.MST file and they will never receive another letter from you again. In this way, you will be operating your business with the most professionalism
possible.

DON'T BE FOOLED

We have some new competitors that have tried to copy Floodgate. The following list describes why Floodgate is BETTER.......

**Floodgate is a mature, bug free product. Not an initial release.
**Floodgate comes with over 100 pages of step by step       documentation.
**Floodgate is the only one offering a money back guarantee.
**Floodgate has more testimonials. 
**Filter for filter, Floodgate offers more capabilities, way more. 
**Floodgate does everything all the others *combined* claim. 
**Floodgate is by far the easiest to use.
**There is NO *cutting and pasting* with Floodgate. 
**We have by far, the BEST technical support.

SOME QUICK MATH

Floodgate can pay for itself in a few days. It can also cut your advertising costs down to almost nothing. Think of what the competition will do when they get their Floodgate program. Don't be left in the dust - there are 75 million people out there, just a few keystrokes away. Let's do the math:

- Email 50,000 sales letters (takes about 1-2 hours)
- Let's say your product will bring you $5 profit per   sale.
- Let's also say you only get a 1% response(occasionally higher).

* That's 500 orders x $5 = $2,500 profit !! Now imagine what 500,000 letters would do for your business !!

WHAT CAN I MARKET ON-LINE?

You can market anything on-line using direct email, that can be marketed using conventional postal direct mail marketing. The possibilities are practically endless. If it sells off-line, you can sell it on-line.

EASY TO INSTALL AND EASY TO LEARN

The Floodgate Email Loader requires Windows. The SUPPLIED MANUAL tells you where to go, what to do, and how to do it. All you need are basic computer skills that can be learned with a little practice or help from our computer savvy technicians.

PROGRAM #2: GOLDRUSH STEALTH MASS MAILER

Do not get this program confused with other slow speed programs that call themselves "STEALTH". This program is the only one in the world that can send email out at HIGH SPEEDS with one single connection to the internet. 

This is NEW, Cutting Edge Email Technology. First Of It's Kind.. The Most Powerful BULK EMAIL SENDER In The World.. NOTHING CAN EVEN COME CLOSE! 

Thanks to our top programmer's, this technology is NOW available and we are the only place you can get it from! 

     *ONLY "ONE" DIAL-UP OR ISDN CONNECTION NEEDED. 
     *NO MORE TERMINATED CONNECTIONS. 
     *NO MORE WAITING TO SEND LARGE AMOUNTS OF EMAIL. 
     *IMMEDIATE RESPONSE TO YOUR MASS MAILINGS. 
     *YOU WILL HAVE ALL THE CONTROL AND CONFIDENCE OF 
       SENDING EMAIL THE WAY IT SHOULD BE SENT... IN HUGE AMOUNTS! 
     *SEND YOUR WHOLE LIST IN ONE DAY, WHETHER IT BE 500,000 
       OR 5 MILLION - AND JUST SIT BACK AND WAIT FOR YOUR 
       ORDERS TO POUR IN. 
     *NO MORE DOWNLOADING UNDELIVERABLE NAMES.

Bulk Emailer's Dream Come True!!! - >>>GOLDRUSH STEALTH MASS MAILER<<< 

Connect to multiple mail servers (20 or more), make multiple connections to a single server or any combination of the two ( All Simultaneously ) with one single dial-up connection. 

SEND MULTIPLE SIMULTANEOUS MAILINGS... 

View complete details about your mailings. Shows each server your connected to, the status of that connection, how many messages are going out through that connection, etc...

We show you ALL the tricks all the mass e-mailers don't want you to know... 

Here are just a few features the GOLDRUSH STEALTH MASS MAILER offers to you... 

     *Forge the Header - Message ID - ISP's will Spin their wheels. 
     *Add's a Bogus Authenticated Sender to the Header. 
     *Add's a complete bogus Received From / Received By line with 
      real time / date stamp and recipient to the Header. 
     *Does NOT require a valid POP Account be entered in order to 
      send your mailings. 
     *Easy to use and operate 
     *Plus much more! 

All this, at speeds of up to 1,000's messages/hour
(28.8k modem). 

SPECIAL INTRODUCTORY PRICE... 

NOW YOU CAN HAVE BOTH THE FLOODGATE AND 
GOLDRUSH STEALTH MASS MAILER FOR JUST $499.00! 

UPDATE ... SAVE $149.05 AND ORDER NOW, BE ONE OF THE FIRST 100 ORDERS! 

Step up to the plate and play with the big boys TODAY and receive the COMPLETE 2 SOFTWARE PACKAGE for the unbelievably low price of ONLY $349.95! 

(Other bulk email software has sold for as much as $2,500 and can't even come close to the cutting edge technology of EASE, ACCURACY AND SPEED ... SPEED ... SPEED!) 

Try the Goldrush Stealth Mass Mailer & Floodgate Bulk Email Loader for 10 days FREE. 
And receive UNLIMITED technical support for 30 days.

**************************************************************

		MILLIONS OF  EMAIL ADDRESSES
	MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF EMAIL ADDRESSES

CD with MILLIONS of email addresses separated by domain name.
All addresses are simple text format one per line. Addresses
from the following domains: Pipleline, MSN, MCI, Juno, Delphi,
Genie, AOL, Compuserve, Internet, .com & .net, MILLIONS OF THEM!
Not available on diskette or download.

===> WANT THE MILLIONS OF ADDRESSES FOR $100.00? <===

Just buy our Floodgate / Goldrush software package (with ALL
the bonuses INCLUDED), and the MILLIONS of addresses are yours
for just $100.00 additional.

These addresses will be delivered to you in simple text files
that any bulk emailing program can use, on CD Rom. With this CD,
YOU CAN BEGIN MAKING MONEY IMMEDIATELY!!!

***************************************************************

***SPECIAL BONUS #1:*** STOP Losing ISP Dial Up Accounts! 

If you order The FLOODGATE / GOLDRUSH software within the next 5 days - When you receive your program, you will also receive: 

*Complete instructions on "how to keep your dial up account from  showing up in the header", plus everything you will need to get started doing this. 

IMPORTANT NOTICE! We will initially only be offering 100 copies of the program for sale, First come / First Served basis only. We are doing this because of the extreme power that these programs offer.


***SPECIAL BONUS #2*** 

When you receive your two programs, you will also receive:
OVER 250 REPRINT AND RESELL RIGHTS REPORTS YOU CAN START TO MARKET
AND MAKE MONEY IMMEDIATELY!!! 

     These HOT sellers include: 
     1) How to Get a Top Rating in the Search Engines 
     2) 70 Money Making Reports 
     3) 75 MONEY MAKING PLANS & TRADE SECRETS and MUCH MUCH MORE!!!  
         ($200 RETAIL VALUE - FREE!!!) 


***SPECIAL BONUS #3***

With your two software programs, you will also receive our NEW "Address Grabber" utility program that enables you to grab 100's of THOUSANDS of email addresses from
newsgroups in minutes ($100 RETAIL VALUE - FREE).


***SPECIAL BONUS #4***

RECEIVE CHECKS BY EMAIL, PHONE OR FAX MACHINE. With this software
program, you can receive payment for your product or service INSTANTLY!!
There is no more waiting for your customers chec to arrive. This
software will no doubt, add to your sales, for customers who
don't have credit cards, as well as the impulse buyers.

With this software, you can print up your payments as soon as your
customer gives you his/her checking information. You will then
add the information given, to the proper blank check spaces, then
just print and go to the bank!!

         ***************************************************

To get your FREE demo and "test drive" our state-of-the-art software, 
visit our web site at:

		http://www.t-1net.com/floodgate 		

         ****************************************************

              HURRY ... RESERVE YOURS TODAY! 

So, if you are interested in taking advantage of the most powerful bulk 
email software in the world and start making money hand over fist.....

Print out the EZ ORDER form below and FAX or MAIL it to our office.

If you have any questions don't hesitate to call us at: 1-954-784-0312

SYSTEM REQUIREMENTS

386 or larger
Windows 95 OR Windows 3.1 with 8 meg ram
Extra 5 MB hard drive space

Floodgate & Goldrush can be run on a fast Mac with 24 MB RAM and SoftWindows.

NOTES FROM SATISFIED USERS

"It is everything you said it was. Within one week of my first mailing, I received a record number of orders. All you need to print money is a decent sales letter. Thanks." Randy albertson, Wolverine Capital.

"After using Floodgate and your utility program all day today, let me say these are as two of the finest programs I have ever bought in my 52 years! Your support has been superb. Thank You!" Vernon Hale, Prime Data Systems

"My first day and I just used Floodgate and Pegasus to send 1,469 sales letters. So far I've got about 25 positive responses. It works GREAT!!! Thanks." Donald Prior

"Floodgate is awesome!. I recently started a new business on-line. I stripped the addresses of the AOL & CIS classifieds. I sent out 3,497 email letters and got over 400 people to join my company in 5 days! Needless to say, it pays for itself." David Sheeham, OMPD

"I was able to use Floodgate to extract the names from the Internet news groups. It works perfectly. Needless to say, I am very excited about the use of this new technology." Mark Eberra, Inside Connections

"This is a great piece of software and an invaluable marketing tool." Joe Kuhn, The Millennium Group

"I just thought you'd like to know that this program is fantastic. After loading it on my system, I wanted to test it out. In my first hour of using this, I collected 6,092 email addresses!" Richard Kahn, LD Communications

"I just love the Floodgate program. It saves me hours and hours of time. This is the beginning of a wonderful FUN time marketing on-line. Thank you so much for writing this program." Beth O'Neill, Eudora, KS

"Your software is brilliant, and from the technical support I've received, I can see you have a genuine love and respect of people...Floodgate is a divine package. Wish I had found it sooner." Tom Sanders, Peoria, IL

"I really like the way the Floodgate software package works. It is very easy to use, and really does the trick. It has already saved me an incredible amount of time and energy." John Berning, Jr., Fairfield, NJ

"It's going great with FLOODGATE! I like using Delphi. I just collected 50,000+ addresses within 20 minutes on-line." Richard Kahn, R&B Associates

-------------------------------------------------
E-Z ORDER FORM:

Please print out this order form and fill in the blanks......
Please send order form and check or money order, payable to:

Dave Mustachi
P.O. Box 772261
Coral Springs, FL 33077-2261
(954) 784-0312


______Yes! I would like to try your cutting-edge software so that I can advertise my business to thousands of people on-line whenever I like! I understand that I have 10 days to trial the software. If I am not fully delighted, I will cheerfully be refunded the purchase price, no questions asked! Please rush me the FLOODGATE and GOLDRUSH package now!

______I am ordering within 72 hours! That qualifies me to receive the FLOODGATE and GOLDRUSH package at a substantial discount! I am ordering BOTH software packages for only $349.95. (Save $150 off the retail price....Software has sold for as much as $2,499.95)

______I am ordering within 72 hours! That qualifies me to receive UNLIMITED technical support for 30 days.

______I want to receive the package OVERNIGHT. I'm including $18.00 for shipping charges.

______I want to receive the package 2nd DAY. I'm including $10.00 (includes insurance & return receipt) for shipping charges.

______I'm ordering Floodgate / Goldrush software and want to order the MILLIONS of email addresses as well. My additional cost is $100.00 enclosed.

______I'm NOT ordering your Floodgate / Goldrush software, but I
want to order your MILLIONS of email addresses on CD. Enclosed is $249.00.

______I'm interested in reselling this unique software package, and earning $100.00
per sale. I understand YOU will be the technician for MY customers. Send me further
information. (You MUST purchase this program in order to be a reseller for the
Floodgate / Goldrush software package).

(CHECKS: ALLOW 1 WEEK FOR BANK CLEARANCE)


YOUR NAME_________________________________________________

COMPANY NAME_________________________________________________

YOUR POSITION_____________________________________________

STREET ADDRESS______________________________________________

CITY, STATE, ZIP____________________________________________

PHONE NUMBERS_______________________________________________

FAX NUMBERS_________________________________________________

EMAIL ADDRESSES_____________________________________________

************************************************************

We accept Checks, Money Orders, MasterCard, Visa,
American Express. You can either mail your order to 
us OR fax your order to:

			954-572-5837
************************************************************

Today's date:_____________
 
Visa____MasterCard____American Express____Discover_______
 
Card #:____________________________________________________
 
Expiration date:___________________________________________
 
Name on card:______________________________________________
 
Billing address:___________________________________________
 
Amount to be charged: $________________


Signature:___________________________________________


I agree to pay Dave Mustachi an additional $29 fee if my check is returned for insufficient or uncollectable funds.

SIGNATURE: X________________________________DATE:_______________

Please send all order forms and check or money order to payable to:

Dave Mustachi
P.O. Box 772261
Coral Springs, FL 33077
(954) 784-0312


***************************************************

OR:

PLEASE PASTE YOUR CHECK HERE

(If you fax a check, there is no need for you to send the original check by mail. We will draft up a new check, with the exact information from your original check that you faxed to us)

Please fax the above order form and check to: 1-954-572-58




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: cash4u@polbox.com
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 15:09:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Get into the pay per call industry for FREE
Message-ID: <199801032303.PAA21057@denmark.it.earthlink.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Your e-mail address was taken from a post YOU left on a bulletin board or message board. Placing your address on such a medium indicates that you might be willing to receive mail from people who browse the internet. If you do not want receive this type of mailing, you might want to add your address to the remove list at one of the anti-spam web-sites.

=============================================

Hi, I'm sorry to intrude, but I had to share this with as many people as I could!
I have found a company that gives away the use of their pay per call services with no costs or lease for the lines!
I have several 900 lines for different services, and I am making some good coin from them, and now I want to help others get into the pay per call industry too.
The info I have will get you set up with the leading pay per call company in the US, and best of all...THERE ARE NO COSTS OR FEES!!

I am sending this note and asking for a 10.00 donation for the time it took me to find the info and get it to you, anyone willing to part with 10.00 will be a happy soul when they get their first check from their phone line or lines.
===============================================================

PROFITS ARE SOARING!!!
With 900, 800 and 011 Numbers
If you would like to make money while doing nothing...then this is the
business for you.
Programs are ready for you to choose from:
BBS Services
Live Adult 1-on-1 & 2-on-1 (Many Languages, Straight & Gay)
Recorded Fantasy Lines (Many Languages)
Datelines
Chat Lines
Live Psychic
Or create your very own program!
We have over 2000 Men & Women waiting for the phones to ring!!! We provide
24-hour service, answer your calls, and pay all phone company carrying
costs.

All you have to do is advertise! If you have an Internet Site this could
very well become your Primary Source of Income

Remember, the more people see your number, the more they'll call.The more
calls you get, the more money you make.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
There are NO START UP COSTS or MONTHLY FEES with our 800 & 011 NUMBERS!!!!!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
You may choose one of the following programs to start out with:
BBS
Live 1-on-1
Recorded Fantasy
Chat Line
Date Line
Gay 1-on-1
Psychic Line
Horoscope
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
To start your own business NOW, send $10.00 cash, certified check,  or money
order along with your e-mail address. I will e-mail all the info you need to get started
earning your dream income.

The $10.00 is the only cost you will ever have and it is just to cover my
time and effort, there will be no charge to set-up and manage your phone
system and you will be able to check your line's stats through a web page.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Send your order to;
Rick Kowalski
617 Gateway Road
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
R2K-2X8
NOTE that this is a real address, not a P. O. box. This is not a scam, the
info is free, but I will only send it if my efforts are rewarded.

Have a great day,
Rick









From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: NLYNCH4401@aol.com
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 17:15:25 -0800 (PST)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: SUZAN, YOUR MAIL
Message-ID: <199801040115.UAA02647@eola.ao.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


NEW YEARS RESOLUTION ....LOSING WEIGHT AND FEELING GREAT GET IN ON
THE ACTION OF THE NUMBER #1 SELLING PRODUCT IN CANADA AND SOON TO
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WANT TO GET A DATE OR OR TALK ABOUT LOSING WEIGHT THEN CALL OUR 
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                       CALL 24 HOURS 1-888-232-1992





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: MoneyTrain@mci2000.com
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 22:47:35 -0800 (PST)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: 1998: TOP PRIORITY!!!!!!!!!!
Message-ID: <199710022632NNA15968@post.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




 

 << MAKE 1998 MORE FUN WITH MORE CASH!!!!
 

   PRINT OR SAVE THIS E-MAIL LIKE I DID.  
 
MANY PEOPLE ARE MAKING LOTS OF MONEY.  DON'T BE LEFT OUT.
 
 I just want to pass along my best wishes and encouragement to you. 
 Any doubts you have will vanish when your first orders come in.  I even
 checked with the U.S. Post Office to verify that the plan was legal.  
 It definitely is!  IT WORKS!!!
                                         Paul Johnson, Raleigh, NC



 
 
 
 "Please Read This Twice!" 
 

 Dear friend,
 
 =========================================================
 =========================================================
 This is a "ONE-TIME MESSAGE"  you were randomly selected to receive this. 
 There is no need to reply to remove, you will receive no further mailings from us.
 If you have interest in this GREAT INFORMATION,  please do not click reply, 
 use the contact information in this message.  Thank You! :-)
 =========================================================
 =========================================================
 
              *** Print This Now For Future Reference ***
 
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 look at. It can be started with VERY LITTLE investment and the income return
 is TREMENDOUS!!!  
 
 $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
 
You could make at least $50,000 in less than 90 days! Results may vary.
Please read the enclosed program...THEN READ IT AGAIN!!!

 $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
 
 
 This is a MONEY-MAKING PHENOMENON. PRINT this letter, read the 
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 You are looking at the most profitable and unique program you may ever
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 Thousands of people have used this program to raise capital to start their
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 OVERVIEW OF THIS EXTRAORDINARY ELECTRONIC 
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 Basically, this is what we do:  We sell thousands of people a product for 
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 The product in this program is a series of four businesses and financial
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 FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS EXACTLY!
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         ******* I  N  S  T  R  U  C  T  I  O  N  S *******
 
 This is what you MUST do:
 
 1.  Order all 4 reports listed and numbered from the list below.
     For each report send $5.00 CASH, YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS and YOUR
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     When you order, make sure you request each SPECIFIC report.  You
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     your computer and reselling them.
 
 2.  IMPORTANT--DO NOT alter the names, or their sequence other than
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     Replace the name and address under REPORT #1 with yours, moving
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     under REPORT #3 to REPORT #4.  The name and address that was under
     REPORT #4 is dropped off the list and is NO DOUBT on the way to
     the bank.
 
     When doing this, please make certain you copy everyone's name and
     address ACCURATELY!!!  Also, DO NOT move the Report/Product
     positions!
 
 3.  Take this entire program text, including the corrected names list,
     and save it on your computer.
 
 4.  Now you're ready to start a massive advertising campaign on the
     WORLDWIDE WEB!  Advertising on the WEB is very, very inexpensive,
     but there are HUNDREDS of FREE places to advertise also.  Another
     avenue which you could use is e-mail mailing lists.  You can buy
     these lists for under $20/1,000 addresses.  START YOUR AD CAMPAIGN
     AS SOON AS YOU CAN.
 
 ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON ALL ORDERS!!!
 

 REQUIRED REPORTS

 
 ***Order each REPORT by NUMBER and NAME***
 
 ALWAYS SEND  $5 CASH (concealed) FOR EACH ORDER REQUESTING THE SPECIFIC REPORT BY NAME AND NUMBER. ALWAYS SEND FIRST CLASS OR PRIORITY MAIL AND PROVIDE YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS FOR QUICK DELIVERY.
 
___________________________________________________

REPORT #1       "HOW TO MAKE $250,000 THROUGH MULTILEVEL SALES"

ORDER REPORT #1 FROM:

  RICE ENTERPRISES
  14001 DALLAS PKWY, STE. 1200
  DALLAS, TX   75240
___________________________________________________

REPORT #2  "MAJOR CORPORATIONS AND MULTI-LEVEL SALES"

ORDER REPORT #2 FROM:

  MARK KITCHEN
  3440 WATKINS LAKE ROAD
  WATERFORD, MI  48328
___________________________________________________
 REPORT #3   "SOURCES FOR THE BEST MAILING LISTS"

 ORDER REPORT #3 FROM:

  MAKIN-MOOLA
  P.O. BOX 271926
  FT. COLLINS, CO  80527-1926
 _____________________________________________________
 REPORT #4   "EVALUATING MULTI-LEVEL SALES PLANS"

 ORDER REPORT #4 FROM:
     
  MY-TURN
  P.O. BOX 272453
  FORT COLLINS, CO  80527-2453
 ____________________________________________________



 HERE'S HOW THIS AMAZING PLAN WILL MAKE YOU $MONEY$

 

 Let's say you decide to start small just to see how it goes.  Assume
 your goal is to get 10 people to participate on your first level.
 (Placing a lot of FREE ads on the internet could EASILY get a better
 response.)  Also assume that everyone else in YOUR BUILDING ORGANIZATION
 gets ONLY 10 downline members.  Follow this example for the STAGGERING
 results below.
 
 1st level --  your 10 members with $5  ($5 x 10)                $50
 2nd level --10 members from those 10 ($5 x 100)                   $500
 3rd level -- 10 members from those 100 ($5 x 1,000)           $5,000
 4th level -- 10 members from those 1,000 ($5 x 10,000)     $50,000
                                 THIS TOTALS----------->       $55,550
 
 Remember friends, this is assuming that the people who participate
 only recruit 10 people each.  Dare to think for a moment what would
 happen if everyone got 20 people to participate!  Some people get
 100's of recruits!  THINK ABOUT IT!
 
 By the way, your cost to participate in this is practically nothing.
 You obviously already have an internet connection and email is FREE!!!
 REPORT#3 will show you the best methods for bulk emailing and purchasing
 email lists.
 
 REMEMBER:  Approx. 105,000 new people get online monthly!
 

 ORDER YOUR REPORTS NOW!!!

   
 
 

 *******TIPS FOR SUCCESS*******

 
 TREAT THIS AS YOUR BUSINESS!  Send for the four reports IMMEDIATELY,
 so you will have them when the orders start coming in because:
 When you receive a $5 order, you MUST send out the requested product/
 report to comply with the U.S. Postal & Lottery Laws, Title 18,
 Sections 1302 and 1341 or Title 18, Section 3005 in the U.S. Code,
 also Code of Federal Regs. vol. 16, Sections 255 and 436, which
 state that "a product or service must be exchanged for money received."
 
 *  ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON THE ORDERS YOU RECEIVE.
 
 *  Be patient and persistent with this program.  If you follow the
    instructions exactly the results WILL undoubtedly be SUCCESS!
 
 *  ABOVE ALL, HAVE FAITH IN YOURSELF THAT YOU CAN SUCCEED!
 
 

 *******YOUR SUCCESS GUIDELINE*******

 
         The check point that guarantees your success is simply this:
 You MUST receive 10 to 20 orders for REPORT #1!  THIS IS A MUST!  If
 you don't within two weeks, advertise more and send out more programs
 until you do.  Then, a couple of weeks later you should receive at
 least 100 orders for REPORT #2.  If you don't, advertise more and send
 out more programs until you do.  Once you have received 100, or more
 orders for REPORT #2, YOU CAN RELAX, because you will be on your way
 to the BANK!  -OR-  You can DOUBLE your efforts!
 
 REMEMBER:  Every time your name is moved down on the list you are in
 front of a DIFFERENT report, so you can KEEP TRACK of your PROGRESS
 by what report people are ordering from you. IT'S THAT EASY!!!
 
 NOTE:  IF YOU NEED HELP with starting a business, registering a business
 name, how income tax is handled, etc., contact your local office of the Small Business Administration (a Federal agency) for free help and answers to
 questions.  Also, the Internal Revenue Service offers free help via telephone
 and free seminars about business taxes.
 
 
 
         ******* T  E  S  T  I  M  O  N  I  A  L  S *******
 
This 4 report program has turned my life completely around. Have you ever
been in debt over $100,000? It's a scary feeling. You consider bankruptcy,
you consider all kinds of crazy schemes to make money and you dump alot of
the little you have left into many of them. I have spent thousands of
dollars on seminars and courses. I think I must own at least half of the
books ever published on making money. Some are helpful, most are not. This
program came across my desk numerous times, both through the post and via
email over the years. I think I must have been pretty desperate when I
finally broke down and really read through the letter. After all I had been
through, suddenly a little light went on! This thing could really work?
After all I spent on trying to learn how to get myself out from under this
debt load this plan was only going to cost me $20 plus some of my time. I
already had a computer and email, so........

This is getting too long, so let me finish up here. I have now started on
my fourth time through the program! That $100,000 debt is GONE! I can talk
to my friends and relatives now and they don't cringe for fear I'm going to
ask for money. We are starting to build our business up and we have the
capital to do it now! I have chosen the year 2000 for our retirement and
I'm going to make it with time to spare.

Does this plan work? Yes, yes, a thousand times yes!
    
                                         J. S. Todd
                                         Canada

 This program does work, but you must follow it EXACTLY! Especially the
 rule of not trying to place your name in a different position, it won't work,
 you'll lose a lot of money.  I'm living proof that it works.  It really is a great
 opportunity to make relatively easy money, with little cost to you.  If you
 do choose to participate, follow the program exactly, and you'll be on your
 way to financial security.  If you are a fellow Christian and are in financial
 trouble like I was, consider this a sign.  I DID!
                                         Good Luck & God Bless You,
                                         Sincerely, Chris Johnson
 
 P.S.  Do you have any idea what 11,700 $5 bills ($58,500) looks
 like piled up on the kitchen table?...IT'S AWESOME!
 
         My name is Frank.  My wife Doris and I live in Bel-Air, MD.
 I am a cost accountant with a major U.S. Corporation and I make
 pretty good money.  When I received the program I grumbled to Doris
 about receiving "junk mail"!  I made fun of the whole thing, spouting
 my knowledge of the population and percentages involved.  I "knew" it
 wouldn't work.  Doris totally ignored my supposed intelligence and
 jumped in with both feet.  I made merciless fun of her, and was ready
 to lay the old "I told you so" on her when the thing didn't work...
 well, the laugh was on me!  Within two weeks she had received over 50
 responses.  Within 45 days she had received over $147,200 in $5 bills!
 I was stunned.  I was sure that I had it all figured and that it wouldn't 
 work...I AM a believer now.  I have joined Doris in her "little" hobby. I did
 have seven more years until retirement,  but I think of the "rat race" and
 it's not for me...We owe it all to MLM.
                                         Frank T., Bel-Air, MD
 
 This is the only realistic money-making offer I've ever received.  I 
 participated because this plan truly makes sense. I was surprised
 when the $5.00 bills started filling my mail box. By the time it tapered
 off I had received over 8,000 orders with over $40,000 in cash.  Dozens
 of people have sent warm personal notes too, sharing the news of their
 good fortunes!  It's been WONDERFUL.
                                         Carl Winslow Tulsa, OK
 
 The main reason for this letter is to convince you that this system is
 honest, lawful, extremely profitable, and is a way to get a large amount
 of money in a short time.  I was approached several times before I checked
 this out.  I joined just to see what one could expect in return for the minimal
 effort and money required.  Initially I let no one in the organization know
 that I was an attorney and, to my astonishment, I received $36,470.00 in
 the first 14 weeks, with money still coming in.
                                 Sincerely yours, Phillip A. Brown
 
 This plan works like GANG-BUSTERS!! So far I have had 9,735 total orders
 OVER $48,000!!!  I hope I have sparked your own excitement, if you follow
 the program exactly, you could have the same success I have, if not better.
 Your success is right around the corner, but you must do a little work.
                                         Good Luck!  G. Bank
 
         Not being the gambling type, it took me several weeks to make
 up my mind to participate in this plan.  But conservative that I am
 I decided that the initial investment was so little that there was
 just no way that I wouldn't get enough orders to at least get my money
 back.  Boy I was surprised when I found my medium-size post office box
 crammed with orders.  After that it got so over-loaded that I had to
 start picking up my mail at the window.  I'll make more money this
 year than any 10 years of my life before.  The nice thing about this
 deal is that it doesn't matter where in the U.S. the people live.
 There simply isn't a better investment with a faster return.
                                 Mary Rockland, Lansing, MI
 
         I had received this program before.  I deleted it, but later
 I wondered if I shouldn't have given it a try.  Of course, I had no
 idea who to contact to get another copy, so I had to wait until I
 was e-mailed another program...11 months passed then it came...I
 didn't delete this one!...I made $41,000 on the first try!!
                                         D. Wilburn, Muncie, IN
 
         This is my third time to participate in this plan.  We have
 quit our jobs, and quite soon we will buy a home on the beach and live
 off the interest on our money.  The only way on earth that this plan
 will work for you is if you do it.  For your sake, and for your family's
 sake don't pass up this golden opportunity.  Remember, when you order
 your four reports, SEND CASH.  Checks have to clear the bank and create
 too many delays.  Good luck and happy spending!
                                         Charles Fairchild, Spokane, WA
 
         Typically when I look at a money-making deal I want to
 know if the company is strong, will it be here when it's time for
 my big pay off.  In this crazy thing there is no company intervention
 for management to blow it.  Just people like me ordering directly
 from the source!  Interesting...I had a couple of projects I'd been
 trying to fund to no avail so I thought; Why not give it a try?  Well
 2 1/2 weeks later the orders started coming in.  One project is funded
 and I'm sure the other will be soon!
                                         Marilynn St. Claire, Logan, UT
 
 ====================================================
 

 We could be printing YOUR testimonial next!!!  
 
 ORDER YOUR REPORTS TODAY AND GET
 STARTED DOWN THE ROAD TO





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: eureka@eureka.abc-web.com
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 01:17:41 -0800 (PST)
To: All Eureka! Subscribers: ;
Subject: Eureka! Sun Jan 4 '98
Message-ID: <19980104081931.15721.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Welcome to Sunday's issue of Eureka!

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------------------------------------------------------------
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------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "unknown" 
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 22:42:19 -0800 (PST)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: The Virtual Law Library
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


	This is the time of year when we all sit down to reflect on last year and set some new goals for the coming year.  What kind of year was 1997 for you?  What will be your goals for 1998?  Why not make prosperity your goal for '98?  There are many things that come under the auspices of 'prosperity' including time, money, love, success, balance, joy, comfort, beauty, good health, wisdom, etc.

	Are you prosperous with your time?  Or, do you always feel rushed and pressured?  Do you always feel there's not enough time to do the things you want to do?  Then you have poverty with respect to time.  Wall Street Journal wrote that leisure time, not money, will be the status symbol of prosperity in the coming years.

	There is now a new legal research tool available that will not only save you countless hours of unbillable time, but also allows you to efficiently locate the same information available through Westlaw and Lexis Nexis without paying one minute of on-line fees.  And the best part is, it doesn't cost you $500. to $1,000. a year in additional service charges.

	If you think this is too good to be true, WinServices Technologies' Virtual Law Library on CD-ROM will, however, cost you $69.95.  The Virtual Law Library will unleash the full power of your personal computer by giving you access to more than 15,000 free legal research sites on the Internet. 
	
	Jane Block, the National Federation of Paralegal Associations' Cyberparalegal of the Year, states that "by using the Virtual Law Library I am able to cut my research time on the Internet by more than 75%."  

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

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Thanks for ordering the Virtual Law Library!
Please allow two weeks for shipping and handling.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 15952576@compuserve.com
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 00:06:43 -0800 (PST)
To: 87659123456@aol.com
Subject: The De Facto Standard
Message-ID: <451534865234.GBB21218@compuserve.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


{Removal instructions at bottom... }


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Pads@mouse.com
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 00:27:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Personalized Mouse Pads
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



     Have you ever wondered why your mother gave you the name she did?  Were you named after 
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_________________                            ____________                     ________________________

_________________                            ____________                     ________________________

_________________                            ____________                     ________________________

QUANITY ORDERED_______________                  AMOUNT SENT$_______________

CASH CHECK OR MONEY ORDER'S ONLY!!!!                       US FUNDS ONLY!!!!!!!

USA MAILORDERS $12 EA                                   OVERSEAS ORDERS $14 EA
(includes $2 shipping/handling charge)                   (includes $4 shipping/handling charge)

MOST ORDERS SHIPPED WITHIN 48 HOURS.  IF  PAYING BY CHECK,  YOUR ORDER WILL 
BE SENT IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING BANK APPROVAL.

PLEASE MAIL YOUR ORDER TO:       3J PRODUCTS
                                                               PO BOX 7183
                                                               OXNARD CA 93031

              





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: eureka@eureka.abc-web.com
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 01:46:34 -0800 (PST)
To: All Eureka! Subscribers: ;
Subject: Eureka! Mon Jan 5 '98
Message-ID: <19980105081629.11349.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Welcome to Monday's issue of Eureka!

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osoft's browser does not have all the features of Netscape's
yet.  However, many of the feeds use the RealPlayer and will
work in most browsers.  If you do not have Netscape and want
a free copy click here ... http://www.netscape.com/download/
Four LIVE feeds ........... http://www.holler2.com/vidx.html

CHAT WITH OTHER READERS
This chat is growing fast, and already there are a number of
regulars  you will meet most days.  It's good to see Eureka!
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Adult/Sex Chat .................. http://137.39.63.229/chat/
General/Fun Chat ........ http://137.39.63.229/chat/funchat/

THE BEST PHONE SEX
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AMATEUR SITE OF THE DAY
OASIS: The Internet's queen of exhibitionism,  not only does
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Pic  1 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?050
Pic  2 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?051
Pic  3 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?052
Pic  4 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?053
Pic  5 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?054
Pic  6 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?055
Pic  7 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?056
Pic  8 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?057
Pic  9 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?058
Pic 10 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?059

PLEASE VISIT THIS EUREKA! PARTNER SITE
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from Pamela Andersons XXX Movie ! Cum get em !!
===========================================================
TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS NEWSLETTER, USE THE REPLY FUNCTION
IN YOUR EMAIL PROGRAM, AND SEND THIS NEWSLETTER BACK TO US.
===========================================================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Andrew" 
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 13:54:25 -0800 (PST)
To: swapmembers@sexswap.com
Subject: HOW TO GET 2%-10% MORE HITS - I N S T A N T L Y !
Message-ID: <199801051125550830.05126488@sexswap.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We don't wish to send people email that hate spam...
If you wish to be removed from future mailings, simply
enter your email(s) in the box at http://www.removelist.com. Thanks
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

HOW TO GET 2%-10% MORE HITS - I N S T A N T L Y !

SexSwap is the FASTEST and LARGEST Adult Banner Exchange.
We help webmasters trade banners with 2,000 sites FREE.
We show 22.45 banners every second, 2,000,000 banners a day.
http://www.sexswap.com

I am going to tell you 3 things:
1. How SexSwap can INCREASE your HITS
2. Why PICK SEXSWAP over the competition
3. How to JOIN SEXSWAP

1. HOW SEXSWAP CAN INCREASE YOUR HITS
/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/

Ok, we have to push the pencil around a little bit, I know you hate math, but stay with me...

1. You JOIN team SexSwap Banner Exchange
2. You paste some code
3. You upload your banner

Here comes the math.
Every time your page loads (where you paste the code), we give you 1 credit..and for every 2 credits...we then show your banner on 1 of 2,000 adult sites.

We make it easy to trade banners with 2,000 sites, and only use up one banner slot on your page.

OK, more math...grade 3 stuff ;) ...
let's say your page loads 1,000 times in one day, you get your banner shown 500 times FREE! And if your banner gets a 4% average click-thru rate, then you just got 40 free hits, or 2% more hits (everyday) for 3 minutes work.

BUT IT GETS BETTER
Many sites on SexSwap get a 20% click thru rate...if you have a ratio that high, then you get .2X500 or 100 clicks, which is 10% more hits.

BUT IT GETS EVEN BETTER
You can join as many times as you wish and paste different code on every damn page of your site...MULTIPLYING THE EFFECTS....so some people can ratchet
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2. WHY CHOOSE SEXSWAP OVER THE COMPETITION
/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/

WE WANT YOU ON THE SEXSWAP TEAM!

We are the largest adult banner exchange with 2,000+ member sites.
We are the fastest banner exchange showing 20+ banners per second.
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3. HOW TO JOIN SEXSWAP IN 2-3 MINUTES
/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/

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check us out, compare us to the competition, test our speed.

http://www.sexswap.com

Andy





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 34194245@earthlink.net
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 02:22:46 -0800 (PST)
To: Nutirisoft@weightloss.com
Subject: DIET, NUTRITION AND WEIGHT LOSS SOFTWARE
Message-ID: <586739fhkh75930fgj@juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


NUTRIQUIK

A software program to help you monitor your nutritional needs and caloric intake.  It runs on any version of MS Windows, version 3.1 or higher.  It contains a database of over 900 food items and their nutritional values from the USDA.  The setup screen allows you to post maximum calories, sodium intake and maximum fat intake.  The setup screen also allows input of current weight, desired weight and attainment date.  Daily posting screen for entering weight, blood pressure and resting pulse rate.  The daily recording screen to enter foods consumed from database or manual entry.  Contains a menu planner to plan meals and view calories, fats, vitamins, etc.  You can store favorite meals in the database so you don't have to keep reentering them.  There are warning messages if you exceed your maximum calories, sodium or fats.  The daily summary screen displays totals for the day and by the Food Group Pyramid.  It has a thirty day report to track progress month to month and you can !
watch your progress on the Weight Loss graph.

This is the easiest way to modify and take control of your dietary habits.

To order:  Print out and fill in the form below. Allow 2 to 3 weeks for delivery.


Name:_____________________    Date:___________

Street:_____________________     Apt:___________

City: ______________________     State: _____  Zip: _______

Send cash, check or money order for U.S. $35.00 To:

NUTRISOFT, INC.
P.O. BOX 66753
FALMOUTH, ME 04105






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: frant@mclafmall.com
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 01:18:00 -0800 (PST)
To: frant@mclafmall.com
Subject: Healthy Life
Message-ID: <199801060919.DAA20222@mail.family-net.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


For years people have been trying to find the perfect health supplement
now we've found it.  Introducing  Ericson's  Alka-Mine  Coral Calcium from Okinawa.
 
Over 150 diseases are linked to ionic calcium deficiency. reports from
of users of Ericson's Alka-Mine Coral Calcium include partial or total
relief from symptoms of:

Arthritis, Indigestion, Over-Acidity, fatigue, Headache, Osteoporosis,
Diabetes, Immune Dysfunction, Allergies, Candida or Yeast infection,
Breathing Disorders, Psoriasis, Eczema, Sinusitis, Kidney Stones, 
Prostatitis, Frequent Colds/Flu, Athlete's Foot, Muscle Cramps, Multiple
Sclerosis, Acne, Fever Blisters, Ulcers, Impotency, High Blood Pressure,
Bone Spurs, Insomnia, Hiatal Hernia, Gallstones, Poor Circulation,
Fibromyalgia, Gout, Constipation, Toxicity, High Cholesterol, any much
more. 

Come discover the secrets of the worlds oldest man.  Click here for more
information and how to order Ericsons Coral Calicium From Okinawa.

http://www.mclafmall.com/coral


///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
This Message was Composed using Extractor Pro Bulk E- Mail Software. If 
you wish to be removed from this advertiser's future mailings, please reply 
with the subject "Remove" and this software will automatically block you 
from their future mailings.
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: eureka@eureka.abc-web.com
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 03:47:02 -0800 (PST)
To: All Eureka! Subscribers: ;
Subject: Eureka! Tue Jan 6 '98
Message-ID: <19980106082624.9999.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Welcome to Tuesday's issue of Eureka!

PLAYGAL
This is truly a breathtaking site. Well-designed and easy to
use with  excellent content.  The tour alone has hotter porn
than many other 'free' sites - go see it now. It's explicit,
comprehensive and top quality.  There are 2,000  video feeds
online, free live fucking with sound, 10,000 erotic stories,
1,000s of top quality pix, adult and arcade games, real ama-
teur competitions and much more. Click now and be astounded!
Playgal .... http://www.playgal.com/playgal/banner_abc1.html

GAYEUREKA!
The gay  newsletter is now  available.  You can get it here!
Gay Eureka! ........... http://eureka.abc-web.com/gayeureka/

EUREKA! TRANSLATIONS
As well as English you can now choose any of these languages
DEUTSCH ....... http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/deutsch.htm
ESPAŃOL ....... http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/espanol.htm
FRANÇAIS ..... http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/francais.htm
ITALIANO ..... http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/italiano.htm
PORTUGUESE . http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/portuguese.htm

KILLER PORN
Interesting name?  Well regardless of the name there are pix
that will crankup your stick if you know what I mean.  There
are lesbians munching bush, chicks  sucking rock hard dicks,
and great 69 pix.  Lots of  free pix, fast loading. Surf it!
Killer Porn ................. http://www.kjmedia.com/killer/

BLASTMASTER'S
Juicy pix of lesbians, babes and babes using toys. Like dil-
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RADICAL BABES
Fast loading, great pix! A little bit on the softer side but
well worth the trip. These are beautiful women posing for us
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horse.  Nothing illegal there, just an equestrian and steed.
Radical Babes ........ http://www.pornsugar.com/radical.html

RABBIT'S HARDCORE HOLE
This bunny has it going on! Tons of fast loading jpegs!  You
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FREE CONTEST!
Today,  win another hot free 3 month membership to Hardcore-
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have. Visit hardcoresmut and click on 'Erotic Stories'. what
is   the  missing  word?   "over ___ xxx  erotic  stories!".
Send answers to ............. mailto:contest@www.usachat.com
HardCoreSmut ................... http://www.hardcoresmut.com

FREE STREAMING VIDEO
Please note that most of these feeds require a Netscape bro-
wser in order to successfully view them. Unfortunately Micr-
osoft's browser does not have all the features of Netscape's
yet.  However, many of the feeds use the RealPlayer and will
work in most browsers.  If you do not have Netscape and want
a free copy click here ... http://www.netscape.com/download/
Videos plus chat ..... http://209.1.233.50/chat/freechat.cgi

CHAT WITH OTHER READERS
This chat is growing fast, and already there are a number of
regulars  you will meet most days.  It's good to see Eureka!
readers interacting with each other and having a great time!
Adult/Sex Chat .................. http://137.39.63.229/chat/
General/Fun Chat ........ http://137.39.63.229/chat/funchat/

THE BEST PHONE SEX
LIVE: 1-on-1, 2-on-1, Group, Dateline.........1-800-644-8779
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AMATEUR SITE OF THE DAY
CAROLINA FOX: This tall slinky blonde is well know in the SM
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EROTIC STORY SITE OF THE DAY
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TODAY'S FREE PIX
Pic  1 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?060
Pic  2 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?061
Pic  3 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?062
Pic  4 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?063
Pic  5 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?064
Pic  6 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?065
Pic  7 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?066
Pic  8 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?067
Pic  9 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?068
Pic 10 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?069

PLEASE VISIT THIS EUREKA! PARTNER SITE
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The #1 most visted adult links site on the Web.  Persian
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Plus the Purrfect Pose and the Desktop Image of the Week!
===========================================================
TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS NEWSLETTER, USE THE REPLY FUNCTION
IN YOUR EMAIL PROGRAM, AND SEND THIS NEWSLETTER BACK TO US.
===========================================================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: workadmn@ix.netcom.com
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 02:47:15 -0800 (PST)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: Just Released!  16 Million!
Message-ID: <14942598_90204097>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



IT WAS JUST RELEASED!!
 
INTRODUCING...MILLIONS VOL. 1

We took a total of over 92 million email addresses from many of the
touted CD's that are out there (bought them all - some were $300+)!
We added the millions we had in storage to those.   When we
combined them all, we had in  excess of 100+ million addresses
in one huge file.

We then ran a super "sort/de-dupe" program against this huge list.
It cut the file down to less than 25 million!!! Can you believe that? It
seems that most people that are selling CD's are duping the public
by putting numerous files of addresses in the CD over and over. This
created many duplicate addresses. They also had many program
 "generated" email addresses like Compuserve, MCI, ANON's, etc.
This causes a tremendous amount of undeliverables, and for  those
that use Stealth programs, clogs up servers quickly with trash, etc.

We then ran a program that contained 150+ keywords to remove
addresses with vulgarity,  profanity, sex-related names, postmaster,
 webmaster, flamer, abuse, spam, etc., etc.   Also eliminated all .edu,
.mil, .org, .gov, etc.   After that list was run against the remaining list,
it  reduced it down to near 16 million addresses!

So, you see, our list will save people hundreds of dollars buying all
others that are out there on  CD and otherwise. Using ours will be like
 using the 100+ million that we started with, but a lot  less money and
alot less time!!

We also purchased Cyber-Promos ($995.00) CD.   We received it just
prior to finishing production work on the new CD.   We had our people
take a random sample of 300,000 addresses  from the touted 2.9 that
they advertised.   We used a program that allows us to take a random
sample of addresses from any list.   We were able to have the program
take every 9th address, thus giving us a 300,000 list of Cyber's email
addresses from top to bottom.  We did not clean  these, but we did create
3 seperate files named cyber1.txt, cyber2.txt, & cyber3.txt of 100,000
addresses each. This will give all people that use the list a opportunity to
send mail to the list before deciding if their CD is all it's hyped to be.

We also included a 2+ million "Remove/Flamer" file broke into seperate
files for ease of  extracting and adding to your own database of removes.

 "You can buy from the REST or you can buy from the BEST.   Your choice.
_____________________________

What others are saying:
 
"I received the CD on Friday evening.   Like a kid with a new toy, I
immediately started bulking out using the new email addresses.  Over
the course of the weekend, I emailed out over 500,000 emails and I
received less than TWENTY undeliverables!!  I am totally satisfied
with my purchase!!  Thanks Premier!!"

Dave Buckley
Houston,  TX

"This list is worth it's weight in gold!!  I sent out 100,000 emails for my
product and received over 55 orders!

Ann Colby
New Orleans, LA

****************************************
 
                  HERE'S THE BOTTOM LINE

Here is what you get when you order today!

>> 16 Million Email Addresses... 1 per line in simple text format on a CD.
Files are in lots of 100,000 (no codes needed to open files).
All files are separated by domain name for your convenience.
 
PLUS you receive a tremendous REMOVE list!
 
AND
 
the a sampling of CyberPromo's HOT list.

>>> NOW ONLY $149.00!

This price is effective for the next seven days, thereafter the price will be
$199.00 so ORDER NOW!

All lists are completely free of any Duplicates. We also on a continual
basis, add New Names and Remove Undeliverables and Remove
Requests.
 
The result is the Cleanest Email Addresses Available Anywhere
to use over and over again, for a FRACTION of the cost that other
companies charge. Typical rates for acquiring email lists are from
1 cent to as high as 3 cents per email address - that's
"INFORMATION HIGHWAY" ROBBERY!.

Don't even hesitate on this one or you will miss out on the most
effective way to market anywhere..PERIOD!

If you have any further questions or to place an order by
phone, please do not hesitate to call us at:

                              908-245-1143

To order our email package, simply print out the EZ ORDER FORM
below and fax or mail it to our office today.
 
We accept Visa, Mastercard, AMEX, Checks by Fax and Mail.
 
 _________________
EZ Order Form
 
 
 _____Yes! I would like to order MILLIONS Vol. 1 email addresses
for only $149.00.
 
 
*Please select one of the following for shipping..
 
____I would like to receive my package OVERNIGHT. I'm including
$15 for shipping. (outside US add an additional $25 for shipping)
 
____I would like to receive my package 2 DAY delivery. I'm including
$10 for shipping.  (outside US add an additional $25 for shipping)
 
DATE_____________________________________________________
 
NAME____________________________________________________

COMPANY NAME___________________________________________

ADDRESS_________________________________________________

CITY, STATE, ZIP___________________________________________
 
PHONE NUMBERS__________________________________________
 
FAX NUMBERS_____________________________________________
 
EMAIL ADDRESS___________________________________________
 
TYPE OF CREDIT CARD:
 
______VISA _____MASTERCARD
 
CREDIT CARD# __________________________________________
 
EXPIRATION DATE________________________________________
 
NAME ON CARD___________________________________________
 
AMOUNT $____________________
 
 
(Required) SIGNATURE:x________________________
 
DATE:x__________________
 
You may fax your order to us at:   1-908-245-3119
 
CHECK BY FAX SERVICES!
 
If you would like to fax a check, paste your check below and fax it to
our office along with all forms to: 1-908-245-3119

******************************************************

***24 HOUR FAX SERVICES*** PLEASE PASTE YOUR
 
CHECK HERE AND FAX IT TO US AT 1-908-245-3119
 
*******************************************************
 
If You fax a check, there is no need for you to send the original check.
We will draft up a new check, with the exact information from your
original check. All checks will be held for bank clearance.

If you feel more comfortable sending payment through the mail,
please send all forms and Check or Money Order to:
 
Rapture Marketing Inc.
P.O. Box 616
Kenilworth, NJ 07033






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: pkmrght1823@aol.com
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:57:15 -0800 (PST)
To: pkmrt1245993@aol.com
Subject: Prodigious Sports Picks
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




     Hello, wouldn't it feel really great to know exactly who was going to win 
the NBA game between Houston Rockets at Cleveland Cavs and our 
BIG PICK in college basketball game, Kentucky at Georgia.  Well, that is
why Prodigious Picks and Associates is here.  If you have called us this past 
week, we know that you have already won big.  We have picked 15 of the last
19 games by the line, going 6-2 in the NFL playoff games and 9-2  in the last 
eleven bowl games this week.  I will inform you that we decide our picks by
using a consensus system analysis program by taking the picks of the top 
SEVEN best handicappers in the country.  We continue to prove that this
system is the best in the business.  You can't go wrong.  Don't lose your money
trying to pick the games yourself or by even calling some other handicapper 
whose price per call is much more expensive than ours.  Let us do the work and 
you get the MONEY!  So give us a call Monday and we WILL deliver!  

                                                   1-900-773-9777
                                                   Only $10 per call   
                                                  Must be 18 or older
P.S.   After you cash in on Tuesday, give us a call Wednesday for more
         basketball action. We will also be having the winning picks for the 
         AFC and NFC championship games after Friday.
        
		       

                                         

 








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ww44me@ix.netcom.com
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 21:11:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Looking For Extra Cash???
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Hello my name is Denette,

PRINT this letter, read the directions, THEN READ IT AGAIN !!!

The company I was working for just went out of business and I've been looking for a job.  I always 
used to delete unsolicited e-mail advertisements before I finished reading them.  I received what I 
assumed was this same e-mail countless times and deleted it each time.

Recently I received it again and thought , "OK, I give in, I'm going to try this, I need the money.  I 
can certainly afford to invest $20 and, on the other hand, there's nothing wrong with creating a little 
excess cash."  I promptly mailed four $5 bills and after receiving the reports, paid a friend of mine a 
small fee to send out some e-mail advertisements for me.  After reading the reports, I also learned 
how easy it is to bulk e-mail for free! 

You just need to follow the directions EXACTLY and you will reap the rewards also.  Read this letter, 
pick a lifelong dream you have and apply the letter and you will achieve success.  It really is that 
easy.  You don't need to be a wizard at the computer, but I'll bet you already are.   If you can open 
an envelope, remove the money, and send an e-mail message, then you're on your way to the bank.  
If I can do this, so can you!

                       GO FOR IT NOW!!

The following is a copy of the e-mail I read:

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

This is a LEGAL, MONEY-MAKING PHENOMENON.
PRINT this letter, read the directions, THEN READ IT AGAIN !!!

You are about to embark on the most profitable and unique program you may ever see.  Many times 
over, it has demonstrated and proven its ability to generate large amounts of cash.  This program is 
showing fantastic appeal with a huge and ever-growing on-line population desirous of additional 
income.

This is a legitimate, LEGAL, money-making opportunity.  It does not require you to come in contact 
with people, do any hard work, and best of all, you never have to leave the house, except to get 
the mail and go to the bank!  

This truly is that lucky break you've been waiting for!  Simply follow the easy instructions in this letter, 
and your financial dreams will come true! When followed correctly, this electronic, multi-level 
marketing program works perfectly...100% EVERY TIME! 

Thousands of people have used this program to:
    -  Raise capital to start their own business
    -  Pay off debts
    -  Buy homes, cars, etc., 
    -  Even retire! 

This is your chance, so don't pass it up!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OVERVIEW OF THIS EXTRAORDINARY 
ELECTRONIC MULTI-LEVEL MARKETING PROGRAM
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Basically, this is what we do:

We send thousands of people a product for $5.00 that costs next to nothing to produce and e-mail. 
As with all multi-level businesses, we build our business by recruiting new partners and selling our 
products.  Every state in the U.S. allows you to recruit new multi- level business online (via your 
computer).

The products in this program are a series of four business and financial reports costing $5.00 each.  
Each order you receive via "snail mail" will include:

  * $5.00 cash
  * The name and number of the report they are ordering
  * The e-mail address where you will e-mail them the report they ordered.

To fill each order, you simply e-mail the product to the buyer.  THAT'S IT!  The $5.00 is yours!  This 
is the EASIEST electronic multi-level marketing business anywhere! 

FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS TO THE LETTER AND
BE PREPARED TO REAP THE STAGGERING BENEFITS!

******* I  N  S  T  R  U  C  T  I  O  N  S *******

This is what you MUST do:

1. Order all 4 reports shown on the list below (you can't sell them if you don't order them).
     
     *  For each report, send $5.00 CASH, the NAME & NUMBER OF THE 
        REPORT YOU ARE ORDERING, YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS, and YOUR
        RETURN POSTAL ADDRESS (in case of a problem) to the person whose 
        name appears on the list next to the report.
  
     *  When you place your order, make sure you order each of the four
        reports.  You will need all four reports so that you can save them
        on your computer and resell them.

     *  Within a few days you will receive, via e-mail, each of the four reports. 
         Save them on your computer so they will be accessible for you to send 
         to the 1,000's of people who will order them from you.

2.  IMPORTANT-- DO NOT alter the names of the people who are listed next 
     to each report, or their sequence on the list, in any way other than is
     instructed below in steps "a" through "d" or you will lose out on the
     majority of your profits.  Once you  understand the way this works, you'll 
     also see how it doesn't work if you change it.  Remember, this method 
     has been tested, and if you alter it, it will not work.

    a.  Look below for the listing of available reports.

    b.  After you've ordered the four reports, replace the name and address 
         under REPORT #1 with your name and address, moving the one that 
         was there down to REPORT #2.  

    c.  Move the name and address that was under REPORT #2 down to 
         REPORT #3.  

    d.  Move the name and address that was under REPORT #3 down to 
         REPORT #4.  

    e.  The name and address that was under REPORT #4 is removed from
         the list and has NO DOUBT collected their 50 grand.

Please make sure you copy everyone's name and address ACCURATELY!!!

3.  Take this entire letter, including the modified list of names, and save 
     it to your computer.  Make NO changes to the instruction portion of this 
     letter.
  
4.  Now you're ready to start an advertising campaign on the
     WORLDWIDE WEB!  Advertising on the WEB is very, very inexpensive,
     and there are HUNDREDS of FREE places to advertise. Another
     avenue which you could use for advertising is e-mail lists.  
     You can buy these lists for under $20/2,000 addresses or you
     can pay someone a minimal charge to take care of it for you. 
     BE SURE TO START YOUR AD CAMPAIGN IMMEDIATELY!

5.  For every $5.00 you receive, all you must do is e-mail them the report
     they ordered.  THAT'S IT!  ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE 
     ON ALL ORDERS!  This will guarantee that the e-mail THEY send out,
     with YOUR name and address on it, will be prompt because they can't
     advertise until they receive the report!

------------------------------------------
AVAILABLE REPORTS
------------------------------------------
***Order Each REPORT by NUMBER and NAME***

Notes:
-  ALWAYS SEND $5 CASH FOR EACH REPORT 
-  ALWAYS SEND YOUR ORDER VIA FIRST CLASS  MAIL 
-  Make sure the cash is concealed by wrapping it in at least two sheets of paper  
-  On one of those sheets of paper, include: (a) the number & name of the report you are ordering, (b) 
your e-mail address, and (c) your postal address.
_________________________________________________________________
REPORT #1 "HOW TO MAKE $250,000 THROUGH MULTI-LEVEL SALES" 

ORDER REPORT #1 FROM:  
	VTM Services
	P.O. Box 3691
	Ventura, CA 93006
___________________________________________________________
REPORT #2 "MAJOR CORPORATIONS AND MULTI-LEVEL SALES"

ORDER REPORT #2 FROM:
 	KL Marketing
            5225 Blakeslee Ave. Ste. 149
            North Hollywood, CA 91601
_________________________________________________________________
REPORT #3 "SOURCES FOR THE BEST MAILING LISTS"

ORDER REPORT #3 FROM:
 	AIK
            10629 Woodbridge Ave. Ste. 104
            Toluca Lake, CA 91602
_________________________________________________________________
REPORT #4 "EVALUATING MULTI-LEVEL SALES PLANS"

ORDER REPORT #4 FROM:
 	RCC Enterprises
            24303 Woolsey Cyn. #1
            West Hills, CA 91304      
_________________________________________________________________
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HERE'S HOW THIS AMAZING PLAN WILL MAKE YOU $MONEY$
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Let's say you decide to start small just to see how well it works. Assume your goal is to get 10 people 
to participate on your first level. (Placing a lot of FREE ads on the internet will EASILY get a larger 
response.) Also assume that everyone else in YOUR ORGANIZATION gets ONLY 10 downline 
members.  Follow this example to achieve the STAGGERING results below.

1st level--your 10 members with $5...........................................$50
2nd level--10 members from those 10 ($5 x 100)..................$500
3rd level--10 members from those 100 ($5 x 1,000)..........$5,000
4th level--10 members from those 1,000 ($5 x 10,000)...$50,000
                                                   THIS TOTALS        ----------->$55,550

Remember friends, this assumes that the people who participate only recruit 10 people each.  Think 
for a moment what would happen if they got 20 people to participate!  Most people get 100's of 
participants! THINK ABOUT IT!

Your cost to participate in this is practically nothing (surely you can afford $20). You obviously 
already have an internet connection and e-mail is FREE!!! REPORT#3 shows you the most 
productive methods for bulk e-mailing and purchasing e-mail lists.  Some list & bulk e-mail vendors 
even work on trade!

About 50,000 new people get online every month!

*******TIPS FOR SUCCESS*******

 *  TREAT THIS AS YOUR BUSINESS!  Be prompt, professional, and follow 
     the directions accurately.

 *  Send for the four reports IMMEDIATELY so you will have them when 
    the orders start coming in because:

When you receive a $5 order, you MUST send out the requested product/report to comply with the 
U.S. Postal & Lottery Laws, Title 18,Sections 1302 and 1341 or Title 18,  Section 3005 in the U.S. 
Code, also Code of Federal Regs. vol. 16, Sections 255 and 436, which state that "a product or 
service must be exchanged for money received."

 *  ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON THE ORDERS YOU RECEIVE.

 *  Be patient and persistent with this program. If you follow the 
    instructions exactly, the results WILL undoubtedly be SUCCESSFUL!

 *  ABOVE ALL, HAVE FAITH IN YOURSELF AND KNOW YOU WILL SUCCEED!

*******YOUR SUCCESS GUIDELINE*******

Follow these guidelines to guarantee your success:

If you don't receive 10 to 20 orders for REPORT #1 within two weeks, continue advertising until you 
do.  Then, a couple of weeks later you should receive at least 100 orders for REPORT #2.  If you 
don't, continue advertising until you do.  Once you have received 100 or more orders for REPORT 
#2, YOU CAN RELAX, because the system is already working for you, and the cash will continue to 
roll in!

THIS IS IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER:

Every time your name is moved down on the list, you are placed in front of a DIFFERENT report.  
You can KEEP TRACK of your PROGRESS by watching which report people are ordering from you.  
If you want to generate more income, send another batch of e-mails and start the whole process 
again!  There is no limit to the income you will generate from this business!

NOTE:  If you need help with starting a business, registering a business name, how income tax is 
handled, etc., contact your local office of the Small Business Administration (a Federal agency) for 
free help and answers to questions. Also, the Internal Revenue Service offers free help via 
telephone and free seminars about business taxes.

*******T  E  S  T  I  M  O  N  I  A  L  S*******

     This program does work, but you must follow it EXACTLY!  Especially the rule of not trying to 
place your name in a different position, it won't work and you'll lose a lot of potential income.  I'm 
living proof that it works.  It really is a great opportunity to make relatively easy money, with little cost 
to you.  If you do choose to participate, follow the program exactly, and you'll be on your way to 
financial security. 
          Sean McLaughlin, Jackson, MS

     My name is Frank. My wife, Doris, and I live in Bel-Air, MD. I am a cost accountant with a major 
U.S. Corporation and I make pretty good money. When I received the program I grumbled to Doris 
about receiving "junk mail." I made fun of the whole thing, spouting my knowledge of the population 
and percentages involved.  I "knew" it wouldn't work. Doris totally ignored my supposed intelligence 
and jumped in with both feet. I made merciless fun of her, and was ready to lay the old "I told you 
so" on her when the thing didn't work... well, the laugh was on me!  Within two weeks she had 
received over 50 responses. Within 45 days she had received over $147,200 in $5 bills! I was 
shocked!  I was sure that I had it all figured and that it wouldn't work.  I AM a believer now. I have 
joined Doris in her "hobby."   I did have seven more years until retirement, but I think of the "rat 
race" and it's not for me. We owe it all to MLM.
           Frank T., Bel-Air, MD

    I just want to pass along my best wishes and encouragement to you.  Any doubts you have will 
vanish when your first orders come in. I even checked with the U.S. Post Office to verify that the 
plan was legal. It definitely is! IT WORKS!!!
           Paul Johnson, Raleigh, NC

    The main reason for this letter is to convince you that this system is honest, lawful, extremely 
profitable, and is a way to get a large amount of money in a short time. I was approached several 
times before I checked this out. I joined just to see what one could expect in return for the minimal 
effort and money required.  To my astonishment, I received $36,470.00 in the first 14 weeks, with 
money still coming in.
           Sincerely yours, Phillip A. Brown, Esq.

    Not being the gambling type, it took me several weeks to make up my mind to participate in this 
plan. But conservative that I am, I decided that the initial investment was so little that there was just 
no way that I wouldn't get enough orders to at least get my money back. Boy, was I surprised when 
I found my medium-size post office box crammed with orders!  For awhile, it got so overloaded that I 
had to start picking up my mail at the window. I'll make more money this year than any 10 years of 
my life before. The nice thing about this deal is that it doesn't matter where in the U.S. the people 
live. There simply isn't a better investment with a faster return.
         Mary Rockland, Lansing, MI

    I had received this program before. I deleted it, but later I wondered if I shouldn't have given it a 
try. Of course, I had no idea who to contact to get another copy, so I had to wait until I was e-mailed 
another program...11 months passed then it came...I didn't delete this one!...I made more than 
$41,000 on the first try!!
          D. Wilburn, Muncie, IN

     This is my third time to participate in this plan. We have quit our jobs, and will soon buy a home 
on the beach and live off the interest on our money.  The only way on earth that this plan will work 
for you is if you do it. For your sake, and for your family's sake don't pass up this golden opportunity.  
Good luck and happy spending!
           Charles Fairchild, Spokane, WA

ORDER YOUR REPORTS TODAY AND GET STARTED ON 
YOUR ROAD TO FINANCIAL FREEDOM!!!





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: scout@pluto.skyweb.net
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 09:00:14 -0800 (PST)
To: info@lgpress4.net
Subject: Agent Scully & Pamela Anderson : EXCLUSIVE !
Message-ID: <15074286123.AV35443@lgpress4.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: e7L0yp5sK@pobox.com
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 20:18:43 -0800 (PST)
To: sound-of-music@sound-of-music-1234u.com
Subject: Season Greetings From The 'Sound Of Music Palace'
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


                                            SCHLOSS
                                     LEOPOLDSKRON

The most unique venue of its kind, situated in Salzburg - Austria, 
the very heart of Europe, welcomes you. 

The palace was built in 1740 as a summer residence for the 
Archbishop Leopold Firmian, and purchased by Max Reinhardt, 
the renowned theater director and co-founder of the Salzburg 
Festival, in 1918. When it was featured in the film "The Sound 
of Music", SCHLOSS LEOPOLDSKRON became famous 
throughout the world.

Today, the magnificent historic ambiance and its up-to-date 
infrastructure make SCHLOSS LEOPOLDSKRON an ideal site 
for residential conferences and seminars, and a particularly 
attractive destination for incentive and special interest group 
travelers visiting Mozart's place of birth.  

On request, we put together for you suitable incentive packages 
that include on- and off-site activities, such as visits to the 
Salzburger Festival or other cutural events, a day-trip to the lake 
district, a concert or a gala diner at the palace, for instance. 

For further details and information about the conference, 
banqueting, and incentive facilities of SCHLOSS 
LEOPOLDSKRON, please contact us at the following 
numbers or fax back to us the completed reply section:

Telephone: ++43 662 839830
Fax: ++43 662 839837   
E-mail: slcc@salsem.ac.at
Internet homepage:       	
__________________________________________________
REPLY SECTION (please tick as appropriate)

Please provide me with more detailed information on the following:

___     Accommodation Facilities   	

___     Conference and Seminar Facilities

___     Banqueting and Incentive Facilities	

___     Tailor-made Programs and Events

___     Music & Culture in Salzburg

___     Other__________________________________________
   
___    Yes, please keep me regularly up-to-date with the latest
           information by fax / e-mail / letter (please circle)

 Person of Contact / Comments___________________________              
    __________________________________________________


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This ad was sent to you by S. Direct Marketing. If you would like
more information on our software and email services...Please
call 510-653-4709  9am to 9pm California time 7-days a week.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: works4me@ix.netcom.com
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 21:28:40 -0800 (PST)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: Happy New Year!
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


OnLineNow wishes you a Happy and Prosperous 1998.

OnLineNow World Wide Directories
http://onlinenow.net/frames/




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ffd5367@hotmail.com
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 07:09:20 -0800 (PST)
To: myfriends@aol.com
Subject: This really is absolutely incredible!
Message-ID: <78203468_1696351>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Work SMART......not hard!

You can easily make hundreds a week just passing out this 800 number with your code 
number.   Some are even making thousands a week.  It is the easiest money that I have
ever made!

The company does the selling for you,  closes the deal,  and sends you $100 for every 
sale!  There is even a built in residual that goes with it.  I have done a lot of programs
but NOTHING comes close to this!

Don't miss this opportunity! Call now!

1-800-811-2141   Code #44737  (This is HOT!  If it is busy, keep trying).

In Canada call 1-800-588-9786  Code #44737

 This company has been in business for 2 years..

*****************************************************************************
To be removed from this list please reply to this message with "remove" in the subject field.
*****************************************************************************




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: eureka@eureka.abc-web.com
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 00:42:43 -0800 (PST)
To: All Eureka! Subscribers: ;
Subject: Eureka! Wed Jan 7 '98
Message-ID: <19980107081612.27681.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Welcome to Wednesday's issue of Eureka!

ULTIMATE HARDCORE
If you're  looking for  over 200  live  strip  shows and sex
crazed  video feeds  - 24 hours  a day!  -  thousands of XXX
photos - hundreds of Videos (Avis, Movs and Mpegs) - and all
totally free for a trial period,  then look no further.  The
only place you need to visit is Ultimate Hardcore. TRY FREE!
.. http://www.mr-cash.com/cgi-bin/ult-program.cgi/raw_3171/A

GAYEUREKA!
The gay  newsletter is now  available.  You can get it here!
Gay Eureka! ........... http://eureka.abc-web.com/gayeureka/

EUREKA! TRANSLATIONS
As well as English you can now choose any of these languages
DEUTSCH ....... http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/deutsch.htm
ESPAŃOL ....... http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/espanol.htm
FRANÇAIS ..... http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/francais.htm
ITALIANO ..... http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/italiano.htm
PORTUGUESE . http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/portuguese.htm

AFTER-HOURS NETWORK
Hmmmm, not a bad site!  "Hot Glamour Models in the Nude" yup
that's what they have.  Lots of real pretty women, bent over
and looking at you.  These are the "show me  your tits" kind
of great pix everyone really digs. This site loads fast too!
After-Hours Network ............ http://www.after-hours.net/

BOOMBASTIC
This website features some nasty looking babes.  These women
are the model variety.  The webmaster has been hard at work.
They have devised a clever system of  displaying random pix!
You don't even have to touch the keyboard.  Lego that mouse!
Boombastic ................ http://205.246.63.10/boombastic/

EMO SLAMMER'S IMAGE GALLERY
This site is a must see, they  have it all.  Including, anal
action, cum close, fetish fun, finger fling, gay guys, group
gropes, lesbian lovers and a whole lot more! There are 100's
that's right I said  100's.  Hit the "on parade" links for a
slide show. Super cool use of technology. Smack your monkey.
Emo Slammer's ............. http://www.znd2.net/karpo/site1/

HUMPING & PUMPING
Great use of thumbnails!  Lots of  horny slut pix!  One that
warrants  mentioning has a bush the size of a  muscrat.  You
have to see this. Is it a critter, or does she have the big-
gest bush in the history of beaver? Judge this for yourself. 
Humping & Pumpin ............. http://www.luvgun.com/pumpin/

FREE CONTEST
Are you ready to win another Free 3 month Mebership to Hard-
CoreSmut? A $75.00 Value.  Just visit HardCoreSmut and click
on 'Free Guided Tour'. In the 'Interracial' section tell us:
"how many free Interracial samples  you get" ...............
............................ mailto:cont-wed@www.usachat.com
................................ http://www.hardcoresmut.com

FREE STREAMING VIDEO
Please note that most of these feeds require a Netscape bro-
wser in order to successfully view them. Unfortunately Micr-
osoft's browser does not have all the features of Netscape's
yet.  However, many of the feeds use the RealPlayer and will
work in most browsers.  If you do not have Netscape and want
a free copy click here ... http://www.netscape.com/download/
Six free feeds ..................... http://207.136.152.129/

CHAT WITH OTHER READERS
This chat is growing fast, and already there are a number of
regulars  you will meet most days.  It's good to see Eureka!
readers interacting with each other and having a great time!
Adult/Sex Chat .................. http://137.39.63.229/chat/
General/Fun Chat ........ http://137.39.63.229/chat/funchat/

THE BEST PHONE SEX
LIVE: 1-on-1, 2-on-1, Group, Dateline.........1-800-644-8779
FREE: Live 1-on-1 (international call only)....011-678-77416

AMATEUR SITE OF THE DAY
MICHELLE: This young lady's beauty is startling!  With long,
shapely legs,  perfect (REAL) breasts,  and a great "tushy",
this girl is the perfect package!  Not only is she a looker,
but she is a true amateur.  Her page started out  as a home-
work assignment from school, now the site is her sexual out-
let to the world!
............................ http://amateurindex.com/eureka/

EROTIC STORY SITE OF THE DAY
TabooStories.com: Nasty  alert!  TabooStories.com  gives you
the hardest, nastiest sex stories  on  the net, all free! We
have the stories that the  other  sites  don't dare to post!
Don't say we dindn't warn you.. http://www.taboostories.com/

TODAY'S FREE PIX
Pic  1 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?070
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Pic 10 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?079

PLEASE VISIT THIS EUREKA! PARTNER SITE
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===========================================================
TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS NEWSLETTER, USE THE REPLY FUNCTION
IN YOUR EMAIL PROGRAM, AND SEND THIS NEWSLETTER BACK TO US.
===========================================================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: tozumi44@msn.com
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 04:52:58 -0800 (PST)
To: tozumi44@msn.com
Subject: Seeking Environmentally Friendly People ?
Message-ID: <199801072011BAA12986@post.metoc.ns.doe.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


				Welcome to the 21st Century
Whoever gets in on the front end of this paradigm shift stands to make alot of money!
		  Helps Us Replace a $20 Billion Industry (Laundry Detergent)

The ULTRA 7 LaundryMaster System replaces Laundry Detergent, Fabric Softener, Bleach & Stain Remover Forever.(Sugg. Retail $89.95)
	*NO MORE DETERGENT *NO MORE FABRIC SOFTENER 
	*NO BLEACH *NO STAIN REMOVER *CHEMICAL FREE WASHING 
	* NO MORE POLLUTION *SAVES THE ENVIRONMENT 
	* EXTENDS LIFE OF YOUR CLOTHES  *60% LESS LINT 
	*100% HYPOALLERGENIC *SAVES MONEY *Only 4 CENTS PER DAY 
	* 7 YEAR PRODUCT WARRANTY.-PRODUCT LAST FOR 7 YEARS..		
	
We can truly get you making money with this program and you will be doing your part to make the Earth a safer, better place for us and our children to live.  I apologize for any inconvenience and hope to hear from you soon.. Please, serious inquires only.

Best Regards,
L. Crowder
President 

Help Protect The Earth's Water Sup




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: pads@mouse.com
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 20:19:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Personalized Mouse Pads
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



     Have you ever wondered why your mother gave you the name she did?  Were you named after 
a close relative, family friend or possibly a television celebrity?  

     Well, we can't tell you why either!  However, what we can tell you is exactly what your name 
means!  

     We print your name and it's meaning on an attractive mouse pad with a custom art background 
of vibrant colors and scenery.  Not only is it pleasant to look at, but everytime you sit down to your 
computer, you'll be reminded of just how great you are. 

     We have the largest most comprehensive database of names anywhere.  And we can print 
names in both Spanish and English.

     We are so sure you'll be pleased with your personalized mouse pad, that we offer a 30 day 
unconditional money back guarantee.

     Placing your order is easy too!  Just complete the order form below and mail it along with just $10 
plus shipping and handling. (see below), and we will rush your personalized mouse pad by first class 
mail. 

     Choose your background preference!!

ABC BLOCKS                                         ANGELS                                         CLOUDS   

DOLPHINS                                            PRAYING HANDS                          SPORTS 

TEDDY BEAR                                        UNICORN                    or               WATERFALL

                                                              EASY ORDER FORM   

NAME REQUESTED                            MALE/FEMALE                               BACKGROUND PREF.

_________________                            ____________                     ________________________

_________________                            ____________                     ________________________

_________________                            ____________                     ________________________

QUANITY ORDERED_______________                  AMOUNT SENT$_______________

CASH CHECK OR MONEY ORDER'S ONLY!!!!                       US FUNDS ONLY!!!!!!!

USA MAILORDERS $12 EA                                   ALL OTHER ORDERS $14 EA
(includes $2 shipping/handling charge)                   (includes $4 shipping/handling charge)

MOST ORDERS SHIPPED WITHIN 48 HOURS.  IF  PAYING BY CHECK,  YOUR ORDER WILL 
BE SENT IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING BANK APPROVAL.

PLEASE MAIL YOUR ORDER TO:       3J PRODUCTS
                                                               PO BOX 7183
                                                               OXNARD CA 93031

              





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: eureka@eureka.abc-web.com
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 02:58:15 -0800 (PST)
To: All Eureka! Subscribers: ;
Subject: Eureka! Thu Jan 8 '98
Message-ID: <19980108082356.29649.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Welcome to Thursday's issue of Eureka!

HARD CITY
Ouch! Like it's name says, this is a HARD site, or at least,
*you'll*  be hard  after you  see it!  Hard City is superbly
constructed and has  just about every type of porn you could
want,  and what's more,  we've arranged  for all our Eureka!
readers to  get to try  out the site totally FREE of charge!
So what are you waiting for? Go see! .. http://hardcity.com/

GAYEUREKA!
The gay  newsletter is now  available.  You can get it here!
Gay Eureka! ........... http://eureka.abc-web.com/gayeureka/

EUREKA! TRANSLATIONS
As well as English you can now choose any of these languages
DEUTSCH ....... http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/deutsch.htm
ESPAŃOL ....... http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/espanol.htm
FRANÇAIS ..... http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/francais.htm
ITALIANO ..... http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/italiano.htm
PORTUGUESE . http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/portuguese.htm

BEST SEX MOTEL
Somebody is  always in at the Motel and the rooms are cheap.
Surf down the page to the "rooms", there you'll find a bunch
of great  pussy pix of all sorts.  Nice  nipple ring room1b!
Best Sex Motel ................... http://www.sex-motel.com/

LICKITY SPLIT
Oh yeah, what a superb site. You are really going to love all the
photos and links you find here. Absolutely excellent!
Lickity Split ............... http://207.254.20.141/lickity/

L.A. SEX
"L.A. SEX has been designed for easy surfing but more impor-
tant than that we have a ton of great free nude xxx pics for
your pleasure! This site has no  consoles..."  You bet, this
is a great site.  Shaved,  black or redheads, take your pic.
L.A. Sex ...................... http://209.50.230.238/pk.htm

SABRINA'S HOUSE OF HARDCORE FUN
They has  gathered together dozens of free pix for us.  Once
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Sabrina's House ............ http://www.sexhost.net/sabrina/

FREE CONTEST!
The excitement  escalates!  This week's  competition now has
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Answers to .................. mailto:contest@www.usachat.com
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FREE STREAMING VIDEO
Please note that most of these feeds require a Netscape bro-
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a free copy click here ... http://www.netscape.com/download/
Three dicks .................... http://207.168.184.26/trip/

CHAT WITH OTHER READERS
This chat is growing fast, and already there are a number of
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............................ http://amateurindex.com/eureka/

EROTIC STORY SITE OF THE DAY
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===========================================================
TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS NEWSLETTER, USE THE REPLY FUNCTION
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===========================================================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 13:43:49 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: lists
In-Reply-To: <19980107200049.20317.qmail@nsm.htp.org>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980108131127.008934a0@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 08:00 PM 1/7/98 -0000, nobody@nsm.htp.org wrote:
>Can someone tell me if the toad cypherpunk list gets *all* the 
>cypherpuink traffic?  As I understand it there are three
>possible subscription points -- does one subscription cover
>all?

You can't subscribe to cypherpunks-request@toad.com any more,
but mail sent there will still get forwarded to the other
mailing lists, all of which send all mail to each other
(except when they're broken, which isn't very often.)

cypherpunks-request@
	cyberpass.net
	algebra.com
	ssz.com
	htp.org

should all get you help for using their subscription mechanism
(usually majordomo or another listserv.)
	
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "TVID" 
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 16:53:29 -0800 (PST)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: Television Caller ID
Message-ID: <234a8sdf67q2348r@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


The TVMessenger utilizes the powerful medium of Television to display Telephone Caller ID information. 
While watching your favorite movie or TV show, the TVMessenger will display incoming callers name 
and number in the upper left hand corner of your TV screen. 

This convenient easy-to-read caller display lets you make an immediate decision on how to handle the 
call. In addition, the TVMessenger keeps track of your calls while your away. The callers name, number, 
date, time, and the number of times they have called are stored in the callers log for future reference - 
Ideal for number retrieval! The TVMessenger also works with your voice messaging service - it provides 
a visual indication that a message is waiting. 


CONVENIENCE     *     SECURITY     *     CALLERS LOG     *     MESSAGE WAITING/NEW CALL INDICATOR


REPLY to this email, visit our Website or CALL US for details TODAY!!


_______________________________________________
http://www.promobility.net/tvid/

Tel. 888-632-1310






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Global Web Builders 
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 00:50:21 -0800 (PST)
To: (Recipient list suppressed)
Subject: 1998 - the year we must make a stand.
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19980108180000.41efa41c@mail.pronet.net.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


----------------------------------------------------------------------------

PLEASE NOTE: No unsolicited email is sent. If you do not want to be on the
mailing list please say "REMOVE" in the subject line and return the message
in the body of this email (so that we can track your state).

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear One Nation Supporter in New South Wales,

As Australia moves towards the year 2000 we Australians move into a critical
stage of our history.

A stage which is the culmination of years of deception by the Labor and
Coalition parties leading to the undermining of our democracy.

With a Federal Election in the wind 1998 provides a chance for Australians
to rectify the wrongs of the past. Voting for the major parties will provide
no solutions - only more of the same. However, expect the major parties to
claim that voting for Pauline Hanson's One Nation will be a wasted vote.

They are wrong - tell your friends and make a stand for your children's
future by voting for Pauline Hanson's One Nation.

I am going to cite just one example of many on how you, as an Australian
voter, are being misled by the mainstream political parties. In a word the
subject is 'MAI' an international agreement to which Australia will be a
signatory. MAI is being debated more and more on the Internet through the
World Wide Web.

Here are some web site links on the subject. Please take the time to visit
these sites because they demonstrate how the transnational companies,
through MAI (the multilateral agreement on investment), are bargaining away
your future with senior Canberra-based bureaucrats.

1) ABC interview - full transcript:
http://www.gwb.com.au/gwb/news/onenation/press/maiabc.html
Extract: 'Sadly there's no catch title for this trade deal. It's called the
Multilateral Agreement on Investment, or MAI. But what it promises holds
more drama. It aims to grant multinational corporations unprecedented powers
over governments. And it's not getting many good reviews.'

and

'In effect, the MAI is a bill of rights for international giants like Shell,
Lockheed, Du Pont, and Arthur Andersen. It prevents governments asking more
of those multinationals than they ask of their own domestic companies. And
any laws that discriminate in favour of locals, such as Australian media
ownership laws, don't fit.'

2) MAI Information Centre (Canada):
http://www.islandnet.com/~ncfs/maisite/homepage.htm
Extract: 'It incorporates a powerful dispute resolution system which would
allow any investor to sue the government of its host nation if it considers
laws or regulations to be discriminatory and detrimental to immediate or
projected profits. The Agreement would therefore disable regional
development and national measures to protect the well-being of people,
create employment, safeguard small business, conserve resources and protect
the environment. Once signed, the MAI cannot be denounced for five years.
Investments under the MAI would remain protected for a further fifteen years.'

The MAI debate is being discussed openly in Canada and New Zealand while in
Australia we are being closeted from this debate by the duopoly which runs
this country's media.

It is a very real issue. An issue that the major parties refuse to bring out
into the open. An issue, amongst many, many others that Pauline Hanson's One
Nation is trying to expose. BUT we cannot do that without your support.

Your vote and those of your friends will be critical to ensure that issues
such as MAI are heard, are questioned, can be rejected by you and I - the
Australian people. Clearly the major political parties have failed in
drawing issues like this out into the public arena for discussion.



Pauline Hanson

PS. If you are able to help with donations to help us fund our candidates in
state and federal elections this year please visit:
http://www.gwb.com.au/pledge.html





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: busadmn@ix.netcom.com
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 12:33:23 -0800 (PST)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: Just Released!  16 Million!
Message-ID: <67101850_17330549>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



IT WAS JUST RELEASED!!
 
INTRODUCING...MILLIONS VOL. 1

We took a total of over 92 million email addresses from many of the
touted CD's that are out there (bought them all - some were $300+)!
We added the millions we had in storage to those.   When we
combined them all, we had in  excess of 100+ million addresses
in one huge file.

We then ran a super "sort/de-dupe" program against this huge list.
It cut the file down to less than 25 million!!! Can you believe that? It
seems that most people that are selling CD's are duping the public
by putting numerous files of addresses in the CD over and over. This
created many duplicate addresses. They also had many program
 "generated" email addresses like Compuserve, MCI, ANON's, etc.
This causes a tremendous amount of undeliverables, and for  those
that use Stealth programs, clogs up servers quickly with trash, etc.

We then ran a program that contained 150+ keywords to remove
addresses with vulgarity,  profanity, sex-related names, postmaster,
 webmaster, flamer, abuse, spam, etc., etc.   Also eliminated all .edu,
.mil, .org, .gov, etc.   After that list was run against the remaining list,
it  reduced it down to near 16 million addresses!

So, you see, our list will save people hundreds of dollars buying all
others that are out there on  CD and otherwise. Using ours will be like
 using the 100+ million that we started with, but a lot  less money and
alot less time!!

We also purchased Cyber-Promos ($995.00) CD.   We received it just
prior to finishing production work on the new CD.   We had our people
take a random sample of 300,000 addresses  from the touted 2.9 that
they advertised.   We used a program that allows us to take a random
sample of addresses from any list.   We were able to have the program
take every 9th address, thus giving us a 300,000 list of Cyber's email
addresses from top to bottom.  We did not clean  these, but we did create
3 seperate files named cyber1.txt, cyber2.txt, & cyber3.txt of 100,000
addresses each. This will give all people that use the list a opportunity to
send mail to the list before deciding if their CD is all it's hyped to be.

We also included a 2+ million "Remove/Flamer" file broke into seperate
files for ease of  extracting and adding to your own database of removes.

 "You can buy from the REST or you can buy from the BEST.   Your choice.
_____________________________

What others are saying:
 
"I received the CD on Friday evening.   Like a kid with a new toy, I
immediately started bulking out using the new email addresses.  Over
the course of the weekend, I emailed out over 500,000 emails and I
received less than TWENTY undeliverables!!  I am totally satisfied
with my purchase!!  Thanks Premier!!"

Dave Buckley
Houston,  TX

"This list is worth it's weight in gold!!  I sent out 100,000 emails for my
product and received over 55 orders!

Ann Colby
New Orleans, LA

****************************************
 
                  HERE'S THE BOTTOM LINE

Here is what you get when you order today!

>> 16 Million Email Addresses... 1 per line in simple text format on a CD.
Files are in lots of 100,000 (no codes needed to open files).
All files are separated by domain name for your convenience.
 
PLUS you receive a tremendous REMOVE list!
 
AND
 
the a sampling of CyberPromo's HOT list.

>>> NOW ONLY $149.00!

This price is effective for the next seven days, thereafter the price will be
$199.00 so ORDER NOW!

All lists are completely free of any Duplicates. We also on a continual
basis, add New Names and Remove Undeliverables and Remove
Requests.
 
The result is the Cleanest Email Addresses Available Anywhere
to use over and over again, for a FRACTION of the cost that other
companies charge. Typical rates for acquiring email lists are from
1 cent to as high as 3 cents per email address - that's
"INFORMATION HIGHWAY" ROBBERY!.

Don't even hesitate on this one or you will miss out on the most
effective way to market anywhere..PERIOD!

If you have any further questions or to place an order by
phone, please do not hesitate to call us at:

                              908-245-1143

To order our email package, simply print out the EZ ORDER FORM
below and fax or mail it to our office today.
 
We accept Visa, Mastercard, AMEX, Checks by Fax and Mail.
 
 _________________
EZ Order Form
 
 
 _____Yes! I would like to order MILLIONS Vol. 1 email addresses
for only $149.00.
 
 
*Please select one of the following for shipping..
 
____I would like to receive my package OVERNIGHT. I'm including
$15 for shipping. (outside US add an additional $25 for shipping)
 
____I would like to receive my package 2 DAY delivery. I'm including
$10 for shipping.  (outside US add an additional $25 for shipping)
 
DATE_____________________________________________________
 
NAME____________________________________________________

COMPANY NAME___________________________________________

ADDRESS_________________________________________________

CITY, STATE, ZIP___________________________________________
 
PHONE NUMBERS__________________________________________
 
FAX NUMBERS_____________________________________________
 
EMAIL ADDRESS___________________________________________
 
TYPE OF CREDIT CARD:
 
______VISA _____MASTERCARD
 
CREDIT CARD# __________________________________________
 
EXPIRATION DATE________________________________________
 
NAME ON CARD___________________________________________
 
AMOUNT $____________________
 
 
(Required) SIGNATURE:x________________________
 
DATE:x__________________
 
You may fax your order to us at:   1-908-245-3119
 
CHECK BY FAX SERVICES!
 
If you would like to fax a check, paste your check below and fax it to
our office along with all forms to: 1-908-245-3119

******************************************************

***24 HOUR FAX SERVICES*** PLEASE PASTE YOUR
 
CHECK HERE AND FAX IT TO US AT 1-908-245-3119
 
*******************************************************
 
If You fax a check, there is no need for you to send the original check.
We will draft up a new check, with the exact information from your
original check. All checks will be held for bank clearance.

If you feel more comfortable sending payment through the mail,
please send all forms and Check or Money Order to:
 
Rapture Marketing Inc.
P.O. Box 616
Kenilworth, NJ 07033






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: cuajuazu@prodigy.com
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 20:07:10 -0800 (PST)
To: cuajuazu@prodigy.com
Subject: happy?
Message-ID: <199801084172DAA45004@post.it>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




                        QUIT YOUR JOB WITHIN 2 MONTHS !  
                  
                          $1,000,000.00     IN 6 MONTHS ! 

                               ALL  NEW!
       0   0           TAKE MATTERS INTO YOUR OWN HANDS!           0   0                                            
           <                                                                                                >
           \_/              YOU ARE ONE OF THE FIRST TO SEE THIS            \_/         
                        
         HELP OTHERS SUCCEED, A "WIN-WIN"  PROPOSITION LIKE NO OTHER!                                                     
                        
              WE HAVE TAKEN A SUCCESSFUL FORMULA AND MASTERED IT!!!!!!!                                           
                        
                             HELP YOUR FRIENDS AND FAMILY SUCCEED                              
                   
    I absolutely disliked my job. Working for someone else was beating me up.
   I wanted freedom . That is all I wanted. Free of my boss , free of a schedule,
          free of paying bills .Freedom to spend time with my family. 
              Freedom to do whatever I wanted , whenever I wanted.
                       Sound like a fairy tale?   Sound like a pipe dream? 
                              Well people, here is your reality check.

          18 months ago I was living the normal everyday life. Job, bills,not much
time and not entirely happy.Sometimes I was happy, but I wasn't living the life 
I had envisioned myself living 10 years earlier. Things weren't going as planned.
I was happily married with 2 children , but still I felt like life was designing me
instead of me designing my life. I reached a point were I decided I needed a 
jumpstart. I started filling my mind with positive, motivational ideas that I read in 
books. I started going to seminars to try to stimulate my mind as well as my life.
    
         I began believing and KNOWING that things were going to change in a BIG way,
but I didn't know from where. Then something funny happenned. While looking through my email, I came across this success program that said I could make a large amount of money in a short period of time rather easily. I decided , "what the hell , it's only $20" and tried it. Little did I realize that I was one of the first to see that message that everyone has seen and deleted  hundreds of times. Right place at the right time?
Maybe. I think It's more like my mind was ready for an opportunity and there it was.
 I was barely able to turn a computer on , but I managed and learned and more money flew in than I knew what to do with . I organized . It exploded even more. I made more money in 3 months than I made at my job in the last 5 years! So I quit my job and started doing this full time - a few hours a day. 

 I have never felt more confident and better about myself in my whole life . My life has exceded every expectation, in so many ways, in such a short time that it borders on divine intervention. Well that program has long since reached it's peak and changed so many times that it's almost dead. What we have here is the same formula only accelerated and improved . We have removed the useless reports of the last program and added some that will blow your mind , The reports could literally change your life in many ways and help those around you. But anyway, please read on .You are one of the first to see this . Your opportunity is now.

   
Email has come along way .It is still almost totally free-except for your ISP account. You can literally reach millions of people at no cost. This sure beats postal delivery . Our program will get even the beginner computer user on the path of success.                 
Of course over the last few months a few road blocks have appeared that has hindered many success programs.                
These are;                                                                   
                                                             
  1. goverment is trying to pass legislation to limit or stop what                             
has until now been a free way of advertising. Email will be severly                             
restricted, very, very soon.Up until now,this type of program is 100%                             
legal and has no laws governing it. Soon this will change.                 
                                       
                                   *******************                              
 2.Internet service providers ,usch as AOL and Compuserve are really                             
trying their best to end unsolicited Emailing.                 
                                                   
                                   *******************                             
  3. Once you have seen a certain program that has "flooded" the                             
internet lines, it is already too late. The People who have made                             
money are on to bigger and brighter things, and the majority of                             
people will just delete the Email because they have seen it hundreds                             
of times already.                          
                                  ********************                  
                            
   4.  OTHER PROGRAMS HAVE PRODUCTS AND REPORTS THAT ARE THERE                             
SPECIFICALLY TO JUSTIFY THE PROGRAM( make them legal). This program has a                            
 great product that can change peoples lives and help others around                             
them .
                          
                                 $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$                          
                                                                                                  
       IF YOU EVER THOUGHT OF TRYING A PROGRAM , NOW IS THE                             
                         TIME AND THIS IS THE PROGRAM!                   
                           
                                 $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$                                     
                            
                                                  
          Prior reports from similer programs , were                             
basically there only to justify the program. These NEW reports                             
are - PRICELESS!  The reports are unbelivable! The information in the                             
programs alone may change your life;                                                    
               financially,emotionally,spiritually, in every way!                                 
                            
       If you have tried other Email programs and had limited                             
success, it was because of three things ;                                 
          1. EFFORT                               
          2. TIMING                                   
          3. PRODUCT                               
                            
                                                               
                                            THIS PROGRAM                             
TAKES CARE OF ISSUES #2 AND #3 . THE EFFORT IS UP TO YOU.                            
 I can not stress how much of the success of a program depends on the                             
product and ease of use. Here is your chance , I do not know how long                             
you will have this opportunity, only the goverment can decide.                         
                            
    IT IS A CAN'T LOSE - "WIN-WIN"  OPPORTUNITY!!                               
                              
    ********************************************************************                             
    THIS PROGRAM ,UNLIKE THE OTHERS , HAS A GREAT PRODUCT                               
    AND IT WILL SUCCEED FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE OF PEOPLE  TRYING TO                             
    HELP OTHERS LIVE AND ENJOY LIFE TO THE FULLEST                               
                                       
    *********************************************************************                                      
                                                  
    THIS IS THE PROGRAM TO TRY ! YOU MAY NOT GET ANOTHER CHANCE!         
                          
                                   
   Here is how the program works;                            
                            
Print this now for future reference***********************                            
This is a money making phenomenon !!!!!!!!!!  You are looking at the                            
most profitable and unique program you may ever see.  It is proven                             
to generate large sums of money and it is completely legal.  It does                             
not require you to come in contact with people, it doesn't require                             
hard work and you never have to leave the house .                           
                            
We sell thousands of people a product for $10.00 that costs very little to produce                            
on e-mail.  We build our business by recruiting new members and                             
partners and selling our products.                            
                            
The product in this program is a series of 4 reports providing tips for financial,                            
emotional and spiritial gain.  Each $10.00 order you receive by mail                             
will include the e-mail address of the sender.  To fill the order,                             
simply e-mail the report to the buyer, that's it!!!!!!!!!!!!  The                             
$10.00 they send is yours simply for sending the report via e-mail.                            
                            
         YOU MUST FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS EXACTLY!                
                            
This is what you do ............................                            
                            
1.Order all 4 reports that are listed below.  For each report you send                            
 $10.00 cash, your e-mail address, return postal address (in case of                             
mail errors) to each person listed below.  When you order, be sure to                             
list the specific report you need.  You will need all 4 reports to                             
save on your computer for reselling them.                            
                            
2. IMPORTANT  Do not alter the names, or the sequence that they                            
are in or you will not profit the way you should.THIS IS A KEY TO                             
MAKING THE PROGRAM WORK. It is not fair to the others in the program                             
if you do not follow the program exactly. DO UNTO OTHERS AS YOU WOULD                             
LIKE THEM TO DO UNTO YOU! -the golden rule of life .                            
                            
3. Replace the name and address under REPORT #1 with your name and move the                            
name that was there down to REPORT #2.  Move the name on REPORT #2                             
to REPORT #3 and so on eliminating the name on report #4.  They are                              
well on their way to financial independance by now so don't worry .                              
Copy the names and addresses accurately and do not remove the                             
Report/Product positions.                            
                            
Take this entire text and save it on your computer.                            
                            
Now your ready to start selling your product on the web.  Start your campaign as                
soon as you can!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!                                
                            
***********ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME DAY SERVICE*******************                            
                            
ALWAYS SEND $10.00 CASH FOR EACH ORDER (CONCEALED) FOR EACH ORDER  REQUESTING THE SPECIFIC REPORT BY NAME AND NUMBER.  ALWAYS SEND MAIL FIRST CLASS AND PROVIDE YOUR E MAIL ADDRESS                
FOR QUICK DELIVERY.                             
                            

____________________________________________________                            
REPORT #1 "EMAIL MILLIONAIRES-THE ROAD TO INDEPENDANCE"                            
ORDER REPORT #1 FROM:                              
A&L INC.                            
113 MT. HERMON WAY                             
OCEAN GROVE , N.J. 07756                            
_____________________________________________________                            
REPORT #2 "REAL ESTATE -'THE ART OF THE FLIP'"                            
ORDER REPORT #2 FROM:                            
SMITH & CO.                            
P.O. BOX 678                             
KEYPORT N.J. 07735                            
_____________________________________________________                            
REPORT #3 "MAKE 10-20% A MONTH IN STOCKS"                            
ORDER REPORT #3 FROM:                            
MS INC.                            
46 W. SHORE ST                            
KEANSBURG N.J. 07734                            
______________________________________________________                            
REPORT #4 "THE STRANGEST SECRET "                            
ORDER REPORT #4 FROM:                            
McCollough                             
504 13th ave                            
Belmar N.J. 07719                            
______________________________________________________                            
                            
HERE'S HOW THIS AMAZING PLAN WILL EARN YOU MONEY                            
Let's say you decide to start small just to see how it goes.                            
Assume your goal is to get only 20 people to participate on your first level.                            
(Placing FREE ads on the internet could get a better response.)                            
                            
Also assume that everyone else in YOUR BUILDING ORGANIZATION                            
gets only 20 downline members.  Follow this example for the STAGGERING                             
results below:                            
                            
1st level -- your 20 members with 10  ($10 x 20)                 $200    (position 1)                            
2nd level --20 members from those 20 ($10 x 400)              $4000    (position 2)                            
3rd level -- 20 members from those 400 ($10 x 8,000)         $80,000   (position 3)                            
4th level -- 20 members from those 8,000 ($10 x 160,000)   $1,600,000   (position 4)                            
                                                THIS TOTALS----------->   $1,684,200.00 !!!!!!!!!                            
                            
Remember friends, this is assuming that the people who participate only                            
recruit 20 people each.  Imagine what the response would be if you only  got 10 more people to participate!                            
Some people get 100's of recruits!                              
STOP AND THINK ABOUT IT!                            
                            
By the way, your cost to participate in this is practically nothing.                            
You obviously already have an internet connection and e-mail is FREE!!!                            
                            
REMEMBER:  Approx. 50,000 new people get online monthly!                            
ORDER YOUR REPORTS NOW!!!                            
                            
                              *******TIPS FOR SUCCESS*******                            
                            
TREAT THIS AS YOUR BUSINESS!                            
Send for the four reports IMMEDIATELY, so you will have them when the                            
orders start coming in because: When you receive a $10 order, you MUST                            
send out the requested product/report to comply with the                            
U.S. Postal & Lottery Laws, Title 18, Sections 1302 and 1341 or Title 18,                            
Section 3005 in the U.S. Code, also Code of Federal Regs. vol. 16,                            
Sections 255 and 436, which state that:                            
"a product or service must be exchanged for money received."                            
                            
 *  ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON THE ORDERS YOU RECEIVE. *                            
Be patient and persistent with this program.  If you follow the instructions                            
EXACTLY the results WILL undoubtedly be SUCCESS!                            
 *  ABOVE ALL, HAVE FAITH IN YOURSELF THAT YOU CAN SUCCEED!                            
                            
                          *******YOUR SUCCESS GUIDELINE*******                            
                            
The check point that guarantees your success is simply this:                            
You MUST receive 10 to 20 orders for REPORT #1!  THIS IS A MUST!                            
If you don't within two weeks, advertise more and send out more programs                             
until you do.  Then, a couple of weeks later you should receive at least 100                            
orders for REPORT #2.  If you don't, advertise more and send out more                             
programs until you do.  Once you have received 100 or more orders for                             
REPORT #2, YOU CAN RELAX, because you will be on your way to the                             
BANK!  Or, you can DOUBLE your efforts!                            
                            
REMEMBER:  Every time your name is moved down on the list you are in front                            
of a DIFFERENT report, so you can KEEP TRACK of your PROGRESS by                            
what report people are ordering from you.                            
IT'S THAT EASY!!!                           
                                               
====================================================                            
ORDER TODAY AND GET STARTED ON THE PATH TO YOUR FINANCIAL FREEDOM!!!                            
                            
Very few people reach financial independence, because when                            
opportunity knocks, they choose to ignore it.  It is much easier to say                            
"NO" than "YES", and this is the question that you must answer.                            
Will YOU ignore this amazing opportunity or will you take advantage of it?                            
If you do nothing, you have indeed missed something and nothing will change.                            
Please re-read this material, this is a special opportunity.  My method is simple.                            
I sell thousands of people a product for $10 that costs me pennies to produce                            
and e-mail.  I should also point out this program is legal and everyone who                            
participates WILL make money.  This is not a chain letter or pyramid scam.                            
This is a business!  You are offering a awesome product to your people.                            
After they purchase the product from you, they reproduce more and resell them.                            
The information contained in these REPORTS IS UNBELIEVABLE!  They                             
will not only help you in making your participation in this program                             
more rewarding, but THEY MAY CHANGE YOUR LIFE AND HELP THOSE YOU LOVE                             
AND CARE ABOUT! .  You are also buying the rights to reprint all of                             
the REPORTS, which will be ordered from you by those to whom you mail                             
this program.  The concise REPORTS you will be buying are easy to                             
duplicate for your entrepreneurial endeavor.                            
                            
           Thank you for your attention.  Now make the decision that's right for you.   




u




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 30469616@juno.com
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 06:04:15 -0800 (PST)
To: yyetrwiiuryte67589@kuic.kyonggi.ac.kr
Subject: WHY NOT GIVE ME A CALL.......
Message-ID: <12876de 0>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: eureka@eureka.abc-web.com
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 01:48:09 -0800 (PST)
To: All Eureka! Subscribers: ;
Subject: Eureka! Fri Jan 9 '98
Message-ID: <19980109082002.25639.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Welcome to Friday's issue of Eureka!

KARA'S ADULT PLAYGROUND
With 15 live sex shows, 1,300 Hardcore XXX videos, 1,000s of
Hardcore  and Softcore  Pix,  the  VaVoom  monthly magazine,
Kara's  exclusive monthly centrefolds,  adult games,  erotic
stories  and even casino  and sports  betting,  you won't be
going out for weeks particularly now that you can get a FREE
trial - your eyes will be popping out of your head!  Hahaha!
Kara's Playground ...... http://www.rjbtelcom.com/eplay.html

GAYEUREKA!
The gay  newsletter is now  available.  You can get it here!
Gay Eureka! ........... http://eureka.abc-web.com/gayeureka/

EUREKA! TRANSLATIONS
As well as English you can now choose any of these languages
DEUTSCH ....... http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/deutsch.htm
ESPAŃOL ....... http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/espanol.htm
FRANÇAIS ..... http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/francais.htm
ITALIANO ..... http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/italiano.htm
PORTUGUESE . http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/portuguese.htm

INFINITE PLEASURES
This site is  loaded with lots of free pix to say the least!
All of the categories are  plainly listed for fast  surfing.
Bingo!  They also have some great free videos! Lots of bush!
Infinite Pleasures ...... http://www.infinite-pleasures.com/

INNOCENCE LOST
"Two beautiful women whom have  agreed to "lose" their inno-
cence in the presence of our cameras.." Here we have two hot
young ladies doing a nice  little romp on a daybed.  The pix
are high  resolution, so you can see it all.  They start out
slow but then it gets going with a mutual hooter connection!
Innocence ....... http://www.firstsightimages.com/innocence/

FREE SNATCH
Hey, I guess the price is right. At this site they have well
laid out pix.  These include, anal,  blowjobs, cumshots, hot
sluts, group sex, lesbians and fucking.  Not a bad mix here!
Free Snatch ..................... http://www.freesnatch.com/

PORN CENTRAL
Way down at the bottom of the main frame you'll find lots of
free pix.  These are some good ones.  One features two babes
pouring honey on each other. Sweet and stick nipples, Yummy!
Porn Central ................... http://www.porncentral.com/

FREE CONTEST!
If you  haven't won free 3 month  membership to HardCoreSmut
yet,  today is your  last chance.  If the competition is too
tough, then just give them your money, once you're a member,
your  accountant will be the last thing on your mind.  Visit
Hardcoresmut  and click on  "Free Guided Tour" for the tour.
Email the answer (found in Hardcore Games) to this question:
"These hardcore games are the ultimate in what?"............
Send answers to ............. mailto:contest@www.usachat.com
HardCoreSmut ................... http://www.hardcoresmut.com

FREE STREAMING VIDEO
Please note that most of these feeds require a Netscape bro-
wser in order to successfully view them. Unfortunately Micr-
osoft's browser does not have all the features of Netscape's
yet.  However, many of the feeds use the RealPlayer and will
work in most browsers.  If you do not have Netscape and want
a free copy click here ... http://www.netscape.com/download/
Just 18 ........................ http://204.244.215.7/teens/

CHAT WITH OTHER READERS
This chat is growing fast, and already there are a number of
regulars  you will meet most days.  It's good to see Eureka!
readers interacting with each other and having a great time!
Adult/Sex Chat .................. http://137.39.63.229/chat/
General/Fun Chat ........ http://137.39.63.229/chat/funchat/

THE BEST PHONE SEX
NEW!!!! LD Call only! - Live Hot Girls!!!!....1-664-410-3912
LIVE: 1-on-1, 2-on-1, Group, Dateline.........1-800-644-8779
FREE: Live 1-on-1 (international call only)....011-678-77416

AMATEUR SITE OF THE DAY
JAMIE WYLDE: A 36 year old Canadian amateur who has the body
of a goddess! She loves lingerie - and that is good news for
you, because she looks oohh so good in it. She loves to work
out and it shows.  Jamie could definitely keep you warm dur-
ing the cold winter!
............................ http://amateurindex.com/eureka/

EROTIC STORY SITE OF THE DAY
Planet Mojo: Mojo  brings  you  the  juiciest erotic stories
weekly! Every  week  all  new  exciting  erotic  stories are
posted for your pleasure. Visit Mojo today! ................
................................. http://www.planetmojo.com/

DAILY MPEG AND CARTOON
These  video clips  feature the  best of  Raffaelli's erotic
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Daily Mpeg & Cartoon .... http://www.erosinorbit.com/eureka/

ADULT STAR PIC OF THE DAY
Every day  we bring you an exclusive  choice pic of a famous
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TODAY'S FREE PIX
Pic  1 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?090
Pic  2 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?091
Pic  3 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?092
Pic  4 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?093
Pic  5 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?094
Pic  6 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?095
Pic  7 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?096
Pic  8 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?097
Pic  9 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?098
Pic 10 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?099

PLEASE VISIT THIS EUREKA! PARTNER SITE
THE ULTIMATE HARDCORE SITES
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An incredible collection of over 30 sites featuring the
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the sites are all very accessible. You won't be
disappointed.

===========================================================
TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS NEWSLETTER, USE THE REPLY FUNCTION
IN YOUR EMAIL PROGRAM, AND SEND THIS NEWSLETTER BACK TO US.
===========================================================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: wogague2@toyoma-u.ac.jp
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 17:19:40 -0800 (PST)
To: wogague2@toyoma-u.ac.jp
Subject: XXX ADULT SEX!!!
Message-ID: <199801093232RAA5626@post.183.199.26>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


The LARGEST selection of Hot Beautiful XXX Live Girls
from the  U.S.A. & Europe!!! 

Voted as the 1998 best Adult Site!  

*LIVE GIRL SEX SHOWS!!!
* 10 FREE Live Video Feeds & Chatrooms!!! 
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*1,000's of Free Pictures of XXX Porn Stars!!
*Confessions!!!
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* Tons of free stuff!!!
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pussyclub+&QUERY=pussyclub+&COLL=11&START=10&OLDCOLL=WW


If you take offense to this email & wish to be taken off our list,
simply  e-mail us at: stanleyo@hotmail.com
We are sorry for any inco




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ForOfficeCall@1-713-524-3303
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 23:43:27 -0800 (PST)
To: SharpFolks@UwiseFolk.com
Subject: Your Ties Deserve Our Expert Touch!
Message-ID: <28174893_22711452>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



*********************************************************************
  - Remove from list information is after this important message -
*********************************************************************
                              *******
-----------------------------------------------------------------
TIE CLEANING-TIE CLEANING-TIE CLEANING-TIE CLEANING-TIE CLEANING-
						  
	     Your Ties Deserve Our Expert Touch

   Tie cleaning..richly hand finished....$ 7.95 each 4 minimum

   Ties altered..widen,narrowed,tips.....$12.50 each 2 minimum
		 reshaped and hand sewn,etc

	  Clean/alter..$17.50 each.....4 minimum

       Specialty scarf cleaning..$25.00 each....2 minimum

  Retunrn by UPS add $5.00 in the USA...our cost outside of USA.
		 In Texas add 8.25% Sales Tax

	     QUALITY care for NECKWARE since 1952

		       MC,VISA,DISCOVER 
		 
		      Send ties to:
		      HOLSEY CUSTOM CLOTHES
		      2613 Richmond Ave.  
		      Houston, Texas 77098
		      713-524-3303 

		      Ask about our Web Page.
		      After 5PM this number is 
		      forwared to our voice mail.

TIE CLEANING-TIE CLEANING-TIE CLEANING-TIE CLEANING-TIE CLEANING- 
******************************************************************
******************************************************************
TO BE REMOVED FROM OUR MAILING LIST, TYPE: REMOVE-b@ix.netcom.com
in the (TO:) area and (REMOVE) in the subject area of a new E-mail 
and send.
******************************************************************
******************************************************************





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ForOfficeCall@1-713-524-3303
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 00:19:21 -0800 (PST)
To: SharpFolks@UwiseFolk.com
Subject: Your Ties Deserve Our Expert Touch!        (c)
Message-ID: <80086500_80738792>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



*********************************************************************
  - Remove from list information is after this important message -
*********************************************************************
                              *******
-----------------------------------------------------------------
TIE CLEANING-TIE CLEANING-TIE CLEANING-TIE CLEANING-TIE CLEANING-
						  
	     Your Ties Deserve Our Expert Touch

   Tie cleaning..richly hand finished....$ 7.95 each 4 minimum

   Ties altered..widen,narrowed,tips.....$12.50 each 2 minimum
		 reshaped and hand sewn,etc

	  Clean/alter..$17.50 each.....4 minimum

       Specialty scarf cleaning..$25.00 each....2 minimum

  Retunrn by UPS add $5.00 in the USA...our cost outside of USA.
		 In Texas add 8.25% Sales Tax

	     QUALITY care for NECKWARE since 1952

		       MC,VISA,DISCOVER 
		 
		      Send ties to:
		      HOLSEY CUSTOM CLOTHES
		      2613 Richmond Ave.  
		      Houston, Texas 77098
		      713-524-3303 

		      Ask about our Web Page.
		      After 5PM this number is 
		      forwared to our voice mail.

TIE CLEANING-TIE CLEANING-TIE CLEANING-TIE CLEANING-TIE CLEANING- 
******************************************************************
******************************************************************
TO BE REMOVED FROM OUR MAILING LIST, TYPE: REMOVE-b@ix.netcom.com
in the (TO:) area and (REMOVE) in the subject area of a new E-mail 
and send.
******************************************************************
******************************************************************





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: eureka@eureka.abc-web.com
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 03:13:56 -0800 (PST)
To: All Eureka! Subscribers: ;
Subject: Eureka! Fri Jan 9 '98
Message-ID: <19980110082909.5633.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Welcome to Friday's issue of Eureka!

KARA'S ADULT PLAYGROUND
With 15 live sex shows, 1,300 Hardcore XXX videos, 1,000s of
Hardcore  and Softcore  Pix,  the  VaVoom  monthly magazine,
Kara's  exclusive monthly centrefolds,  adult games,  erotic
stories  and even casino  and sports  betting,  you won't be
going out for weeks particularly now that you can get a FREE
trial - your eyes will be popping out of your head!  Hahaha!
Kara's Playground ...... http://www.rjbtelcom.com/eplay.html

GAYEUREKA!
The gay  newsletter is now  available.  You can get it here!
Gay Eureka! ........... http://eureka.abc-web.com/gayeureka/

EUREKA! TRANSLATIONS
As well as English you can now choose any of these languages
DEUTSCH ....... http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/deutsch.htm
ESPAŃOL ....... http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/espanol.htm
FRANÇAIS ..... http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/francais.htm
ITALIANO ..... http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/italiano.htm
PORTUGUESE . http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/portuguese.htm

PLEASE VISIT THIS FINE EUREKA! PARTNER SITE
Hot XXX Daily Top 100 FREE Picture Sites
http://www.6sites.inter.net/top100/
The Web's Hottest 100 FREE Picture Sites. Plus 5 FREE Pix
Every Day. Plus 12 FREE Video Sex Feeds. And 30+ Sample Pix.

INFINITE PLEASURES
This site is  loaded with lots of free pix to say the least!
All of the categories are  plainly listed for fast  surfing.
Bingo!  They also have some great free videos! Lots of bush!
Infinite Pleasures ...... http://www.infinite-pleasures.com/

INNOCENCE LOST
"Two beautiful women whom have  agreed to "lose" their inno-
cence in the presence of our cameras.." Here we have two hot
young ladies doing a nice  little romp on a daybed.  The pix
are high  resolution, so you can see it all.  They start out
slow but then it gets going with a mutual hooter connection!
Innocence ....... http://www.firstsightimages.com/innocence/

FREE SNATCH
Hey, I guess the price is right. At this site they have well
laid out pix.  These include, anal,  blowjobs, cumshots, hot
sluts, group sex, lesbians and fucking.  Not a bad mix here!
Free Snatch ..................... http://www.freesnatch.com/

PORN CENTRAL
Way down at the bottom of the main frame you'll find lots of
free pix.  These are some good ones.  One features two babes
pouring honey on each other. Sweet and stick nipples, Yummy!
Porn Central ................... http://www.porncentral.com/

FREE CONTEST!
If you  haven't won free 3 month  membership to HardCoreSmut
yet,  today is your  last chance.  If the competition is too
tough, then just give them your money, once you're a member,
your  accountant will be the last thing on your mind.  Visit
Hardcoresmut  and click on  "Free Guided Tour" for the tour.
Email the answer (found in Hardcore Games) to this question:
"These hardcore games are the ultimate in what?"............
Send answers to ............. mailto:contest@www.usachat.com
HardCoreSmut ................... http://www.hardcoresmut.com

FREE STREAMING VIDEO
Please note that most of these feeds require a Netscape bro-
wser in order to successfully view them. Unfortunately Micr-
osoft's browser does not have all the features of Netscape's
yet.  However, many of the feeds use the RealPlayer and will
work in most browsers.  If you do not have Netscape and want
a free copy click here ... http://www.netscape.com/download/
Just 18 ........................ http://204.244.215.7/teens/

CHAT WITH OTHER READERS
This chat is growing fast, and already there are a number of
regulars  you will meet most days.  It's good to see Eureka!
readers interacting with each other and having a great time!
Adult/Sex Chat .................. http://137.39.63.229/chat/
General/Fun Chat ........ http://137.39.63.229/chat/funchat/

THE BEST PHONE SEX
NEW!!!! LD Call only! - Live Hot Girls!!!!....1-664-410-3912
LIVE: 1-on-1, 2-on-1, Group, Dateline.........1-800-644-8779
FREE: Live 1-on-1 (international call only)....011-678-77416

AMATEUR SITE OF THE DAY
JAMIE WYLDE: A 36 year old Canadian amateur who has the body
of a goddess! She loves lingerie - and that is good news for
you, because she looks oohh so good in it. She loves to work
out and it shows.  Jamie could definitely keep you warm dur-
ing the cold winter!
............................ http://amateurindex.com/eureka/

EROTIC STORY SITE OF THE DAY
Planet Mojo: Mojo  brings  you  the  juiciest erotic stories
weekly! Every  week  all  new  exciting  erotic  stories are
posted for your pleasure. Visit Mojo today! ................
................................. http://www.planetmojo.com/

DAILY CARTOON ........... http://www.erosinorbit.com/eureka/

ADULT STAR PIC OF THE DAY
Every day  we bring you an exclusive  choice pic of a famous
adult porn star.  And we must tell you - these pix are abso-
luletly brilliant! .... http://www.xxxadultstars.com/eureka/

TODAY'S FREE PIX
Pic  1 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?090
Pic  2 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?091
Pic  3 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?092
Pic  4 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?093
Pic  5 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?094
Pic  6 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?095
Pic  7 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?096
Pic  8 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?097
Pic  9 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?098
Pic 10 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?099

===========================================================
TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS NEWSLETTER, USE THE REPLY FUNCTION
IN YOUR EMAIL PROGRAM, AND SEND THIS NEWSLETTER BACK TO US.
===========================================================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: wopeunua84@toyoma-u.ac.jp
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 10:52:33 -0800 (PST)
To: wopeunua84@toyoma-u.ac.jp
Subject: XXX ADULT SEX!!!
Message-ID: <199801104296VAA10778@post.121.47.225>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Your Connection to Hot Sexy XXX Live Girls!!!

*LIVE GIRL SEX SHOWS!!!
* 10 FREE Live Video Feeds & Chatrooms!!! 
*FREE Erotic Stories!!
*1,000's of Free Pictures of XXX Porn Stars!!
*Confessions!!!
*Plus Free Pictures of Teens & Men!!!
*Live Erotic Chat!!!
*Gambling
* Tons of free stuff!!!
So Much More we can't fit it on this page. See for yourself, go check it out!!!

You must be 21 or older.

Copy & Paste the link below into your browser, and press enter. It's that easy!!!


http://www.search.com/Infoseek/1,135,0,0200.html?
OLDQUERY=pussyclub+&QUERY=pussyclub+&COLL=11&START=10&OLDCOLL=WW


If you take offense to this email & wish to be taken off our list,
simply  e-mail us at: stanleyo@hotmail.com
We are sorry for any 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 00000@hotmail.com
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 22:55:28 -0800 (PST)
To: Everyone@the.net
Subject: Make $100 everytime the phone rings!!
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


    ==============================================
    "Internet Marketing Warriors Secret Site!"(tm)
            Copyright 1997 by Allen Says  
    ==============================================

       " I Never Made A Dime On The Internet "
                     ..UNTIL..

                I GOT MAD AS HELL !!

"After That, I've Made Money Every Day Since And I'll Show 
     You Exactly How To Get Started Doing What I Did!"


             The Start of the Warriors!!

 One night, after a long period of NO responses to all my 
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 Why am I telling you this?

 Because the market is unlimited AND I can guarantee you if 
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  newsgroups! 

# Exactly how to turn 1000's of prospects into Buyers 
  and Die-Hard, Loyal Customers For Life! It's so EASY! 
  (you'll LOVE this one) 

# Seduce the Mind and Activate the Emotions of Your 
  Prospects So They Buy NOW! Killer Strategies Used By 
  The Masters of Direct Response! 

# Powerful Secrets to Multiply Yourself Over the Web 
  and Lead 1000's of People to Your Site Every Day! If 
  You Can't Make Money With This You Might Be In Trouble! 
  ...It's NOT MLM! 

    And that's just what's in the Special Report!!

Check out the Software, E-mail Addresses, Special Reports 
and Books-on-Disk I have collected over the last 3 years
that are also Inside the Warrior's Secret Site!
               	
# Over 500,000 Email addresses You Can Download Right Now! 
  Thousands more being added every week!!

# 5 Different Email Address Extractors!...one extracts 
  addresses at 60,000 per hour!

# Free Web-Based Bulk E-Mailer - Awesome! Mail Your 
  Message At Rates Up to 250,000 An Hour!!

# How to use a Free Email Address Stripper on the secret site 
  to go onto aol and collect 1000's of 'targeted' email 
  addresses from the forums, message boards and member 
  directory!! Every day...FREE!!!

# A Copy of The Special Report: How To Make At Least Make 
  $1,600 a Week Online..Starting Now! 

# Learn the Secrets of BulkMail - How to Setup a Free Email 
  Extracting and Mailing System Using Freely Available 
  Programs!!

# 38 of the 'Hottest' Marketing Reports Ever Written!!

# 6 "Must Have" Books On Disk (the "forbidden" secrets and 
  strategies of getting 1000's of customers from the net!)

# Lifetime Subscription to the "Internet Marketing Warriors 
  Letter!"...Every New Issue Posted To The Secret Site....

 You Will Also Have Lifetime Access To The Warrior Forum
  Where You Will Find Your Every Question Answered And 
       Put Your Business Light Years Ahead Of The 
                     Competition!!

              "Inside The Warrior Forum"

# How To Accept Credit Cards For Your Business..NOW! You DO 
  NOT need a merchant account. Find THE Sources That Will 
  Get You Going Today!!

# Meta Tags - How to get top listings in search engines!

# In depth talks on getting around AOL blocking!! Warriors 
  get through when no one else can!!

# In depth reviews of all major bulk mailing & extracting 
  software - Netcontact, Floodgate, Stealth (all versions), 
  E-Mail Magnet, Extractor Pro and more - Find out the truth 
  BEFORE you buy!(Honest Reviews - Not by sellers - but by 
  actual buyers & users!)

# Access to one of our members bulk emailing support site...
  tons of free features, value and help!!

# Members who will submit your site to hundreds of search 
  engines for free...just because you are a Warrior!!

# Discover the secrets and power of CGI/PERL in bulk 
  mailing!!

# More Secrets about Autoresponders!!

# Killer Headlines & Sales Advice!!

# How to print your own money....legally!!

# Tricks to cut down on flames!! One dealer is making a ton 
  of money using this trick and gets very few flames!!

# Softsell vs. Hardsell....Which works best?

# Make Every Ad of Yours a Success!!

# Bulk Email Myth #1....

# Part 1: Copywriting Secrets! Part 2: Copywriting Secrets!

# Avoid this disaster when bulk mailing!!

# Sources for the latest bulk email accounts!!

# Some members are forming bulk e-mail co-ops and partner 
  groups right now!!

     Need to hear from other Warriors?

Allen, 
This is absolutely unbelievable. Within two days I 
have already made in excess of $200.00 and it only 
took about 2 hours to do every thing. The marketing 
reports that you supply are absolutely outstanding!!  
I have to say....my hat goes off to you. I am glad 
that there is someone out there who will give your 
moneys worth and a whole lot more!!
Thanks a Million,
J.R. (Florida)

Hi Allen,
Just a quick thank you note for creating the Warrior 
site. After a full two years of banging my head 
against the monitor screen, trying to make money on 
the internet, I finally have learned the secrets that 
I needed to make it all happen. Sponsoring people into 
my MLM program has never been easier and I don't worry 
anymore about losing my internet connection for sending 
bulk e-mail.  The contacts I have made in the forum 
have turned into pure gold and will continue to further 
educate me in the proper methods of internet marketing.  
Keep up the great work Allen!
Best Regards,
John Corbett
J&D Marketing

"I have been marketing online for a while now and I 
have more than tripled my former income working at my 
job (I have been fulltime in internet marketing for 
about 6 months now) and I only work around 15 to 20 
hours a week. During my time in this business I have 
been in contact with most of the major marketers online 
and I recommend Allen Says as the most honest and helpful 
individual I have dealt with in this business. His 
Marketing package is the best value on theinternet. 
Anyone who is thinking about doing any type of business 
on the web needs to be a member of the Internet Marketing 
Warriors."
Thank You, 
Terry Dean

Thanks for your kindness, and you can quote me on 
this: a veritable treasure-trove of money making 
ideas, the package has saved me hundreds of hours 
of research time. It is well worth joining! 
Regards,
Haider Aziz 

Allen -
This is the best $25 I ever spent. Thanks for the 
honesty & quality web site.
- Steve Traino

Allen
Joining the Internet Marketing Warrior family has 
been very rewarding to me. Prior to becoming a member, 
I wasted so much time on the net unsuccessfully 
finding the kind of information & internet marketing 
techniques that are available to me now as a Warrior 
member. In addition to all the money making information 
on the private site, what amazes me the most is the great 
contribution of information & help provided to everyone 
by top gun professional fellow Warrior members on the 
forum. I recommend this site to anyone serious about 
making money on the net.
Best of Success,
Alan Alvarez
President
South Pointe Financial Corp.

.."Started reading your report last night and..COULDN'T 
PUT IT DOWN! I got so caught up in it I didn't eat supper. 
It's jam-packed with over a dozen tried and true MONEY 
MAKING techniques! I also like the fact that you really 
care about your clients and are willing to talk and answer 
questions..refreshing in the vast world of cyberspace! If 
you Email Allen, he gets back with ya!" 
Sid Menough 
Florida 
-------
                  Join Us Today!
                       ***

         Only $24.95 For A Limited Time!!
               LIFETIME MEMBERSHIP!
       Full One Year Money-Back Guarantee!
                    Order Now!

The Complete Internet Marketing Warrior Package Is 
Availiable For Immediate Download At The Warrior's 
                  Private Site!

            Fast 24 Hour Ordering by 
      Direct Fax Order Line: 1-903-838-5534

     You'll Get Your Login Info The Same Day...
            Sometimes Within Minutes!

        ---------------------------------
         Warrior's Membership Order Form
        ---------------------------------

[]YES! Sign Me Up For Lifetime Access And Membership 
  To The Warriors Private Site For Only $24.95

[]I am paying by []Credit Card []Check []Money Order.
      (Please Make Payable To: Allen Says)

 Name:______________________________________

 Address:___________________________________

 City:______________________________________

 State:_________________Zip:________________

 Your Email Address:________________________
 
 Dealer Code#:  604

          --------------------------
          Visa\Mastercard Order Form
          --------------------------

 Name On Card:______________________________

 Credit Card#_______________________________

 Exp. Date:_________________________________
    (Charge Will Appear As "Info-World")


        Voice-Mail Order Line: 1-903-832-6067
NOTE: This is a line for leaving your credit card order
on our voice-mail system. Because my dealers bulk email
and a lot of people hate it, we don't answer this phone
"live" anymore.(no person could answer my phone and stay 
sane for very long :-) However, it is very safe to leave 
your Full Name, Credit Card #, The Expiration Date, Your 
Email Address and The Dealer Code#:  604 and I Will Get 
Back To You The Same Day With Your Access To The Site!!

 Speak Slowly and Take As Much Time As You Need!
    You'll Get Your Login Info The Same Day!!
          
     Direct Fax Order Line: 1-903-838-5534
       (Fax your order 24 hours a day!)

Order By Mail:

                 Allen Says
            1311 Old River Road
             Starks, La. 70661
=================================================






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: pkmrght487@aol.com
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 22:56:56 -0800 (PST)
To: pkmrght090@aol.com
Subject: PRODIGIOUS NFL PICKS
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




     Hello SPORTSFANS!!!!  If you are an avid sportsfan like myself, then I 
know you will enjoy this ad.  Who are we?  We are Prodigious Picks and
Associates.  What are we?  We are one of the BEST sports handicapping
systems in the country.  Our predictions are decided  by a consensus 
analysis system that takes the predictions of SEVEN OF THE BEST
HANDICAPPERS IN THE COUNTRY!!!!  If you are one of the thousands 
of callers that has phoned us in the past weeks, we know that we have 
already proven ourselves to YOU.  If you have not had a chance to give 
us a call yet, we want to inform you that we went 19-6 by the line in the past
two weeks.  That is 76 PERCENT!!!  This includes winning 10 of 12 BIG PICKS
and going 6-2 in the NFL playoffs.  For this reason, we feel extremely confident
that we have the two winning picks for Sunday's championship games that
features DENVER at PITTSBURGH and GREEN BAY at SAN FRANCISCO. 
We are so sure of our predictions that we are calling them the TWO BIGGEST
PICKS OF THE YEAR!!!  Don't lose your money trying to pick the games 
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So give us a call after Friday and WE WILL DELIVER!!!!!!!!  

                                                   1-900-773-9777
                                                   Only $10 per call   
                                                  Must be 18 or older
P.S.   After you WIN 1000s on Sunday, give us a call on Monday for our
         winning basketball picks.  We will also have the winning SUPER
         BOWL PICK after January 22.
		       

                                         

 








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: WebSoft Associates 
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 02:28:50 -0800 (PST)
To: WebSoft Associates 
Subject: Congratulations!
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980111020632.006e2f2c@websoftassoc.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Dear Sir or Ms:
 
We at WebSoft Associates (http://www.websoftassoc.com) would like to
congratulate you on your recent selection by Inc. Magazine as
one of the 500 fastest growing private companies in the United States.
 
Being a small private company like yourself, we understand the need for
innovative and technically advanced business solutions.  We believe that we
can offer these solutions at a fair price and at an unmatched professional
level.  If you are committed to having an Internet presence, we are
committed to making that presence be as affordable, practical, and
professional as possible.
 
We are currently increasing both our customer base and the services that we
provide, as we strive to one day be included
in the Inc. 500.  We would like you to consider contacting WebSoft for any
of your future Internet and business technology needs, and help us meet
that goal.
 
Once again congratulations, and thank you for your time and consideration.
We will not send further email to your account unless you contact us first.
 
Sincerely,
 
Brian L. Cheek
President
WebSoft Associates
E-mail:  Websoft@websoftassoc.com
Website:  http://www.websoftassoc.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: eureka@eureka.abc-web.com
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 00:22:08 -0800 (PST)
To: All Eureka! Subscribers: ;
Subject: Eureka! Fri Jan 9 '98
Message-ID: <19980111081520.24717.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Welcome to Friday's issue of Eureka!

KARA'S ADULT PLAYGROUND
With 15 live sex shows, 1,300 Hardcore XXX videos, 1,000s of
Hardcore  and Softcore  Pix,  the  VaVoom  monthly magazine,
Kara's  exclusive monthly centrefolds,  adult games,  erotic
stories  and even casino  and sports  betting,  you won't be
going out for weeks particularly now that you can get a FREE
trial - your eyes will be popping out of your head!  Hahaha!
Kara's Playground ...... http://www.rjbtelcom.com/eplay.html

GAYEUREKA!
The gay  newsletter is now  available.  You can get it here!
Gay Eureka! ........... http://eureka.abc-web.com/gayeureka/

EUREKA! TRANSLATIONS
As well as English you can now choose any of these languages
DEUTSCH ....... http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/deutsch.htm
ESPAŃOL ....... http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/espanol.htm
FRANÇAIS ..... http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/francais.htm
ITALIANO ..... http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/italiano.htm
PORTUGUESE . http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/portuguese.htm

PLEASE VISIT THIS FINE EUREKA! PARTNER SITE
***THE BEST HARDCORE ON THE NET***
http://www.thehoneypot.com
We Offer You Only the Best In Harcore Adult Entertainment. 
Cheap Weekly Rates, Free Samples, And The Wettest Sluts
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INFINITE PLEASURES
This site is  loaded with lots of free pix to say the least!
All of the categories are  plainly listed for fast  surfing.
Bingo!  They also have some great free videos! Lots of bush!
Infinite Pleasures ...... http://www.infinite-pleasures.com/

INNOCENCE LOST
"Two beautiful women whom have  agreed to "lose" their inno-
cence in the presence of our cameras.." Here we have two hot
young ladies doing a nice  little romp on a daybed.  The pix
are high  resolution, so you can see it all.  They start out
slow but then it gets going with a mutual hooter connection!
Innocence ....... http://www.firstsightimages.com/innocence/

FREE SNATCH
Hey, I guess the price is right. At this site they have well
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sluts, group sex, lesbians and fucking.  Not a bad mix here!
Free Snatch ..................... http://www.freesnatch.com/

PORN CENTRAL
Way down at the bottom of the main frame you'll find lots of
free pix.  These are some good ones.  One features two babes
pouring honey on each other. Sweet and stick nipples, Yummy!
Porn Central ................... http://www.porncentral.com/

FREE CONTEST!
If you  haven't won free 3 month  membership to HardCoreSmut
yet,  today is your  last chance.  If the competition is too
tough, then just give them your money, once you're a member,
your  accountant will be the last thing on your mind.  Visit
Hardcoresmut  and click on  "Free Guided Tour" for the tour.
Email the answer (found in Hardcore Games) to this question:
"These hardcore games are the ultimate in what?"............
Send answers to ............. mailto:contest@www.usachat.com
HardCoreSmut ................... http://www.hardcoresmut.com

FREE STREAMING VIDEO
Please note that most of these feeds require a Netscape bro-
wser in order to successfully view them. Unfortunately Micr-
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yet.  However, many of the feeds use the RealPlayer and will
work in most browsers.  If you do not have Netscape and want
a free copy click here ... http://www.netscape.com/download/
Just 18 ........................ http://204.244.215.7/teens/

CHAT WITH OTHER READERS
This chat is growing fast, and already there are a number of
regulars  you will meet most days.  It's good to see Eureka!
readers interacting with each other and having a great time!
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General/Fun Chat ........ http://137.39.63.229/chat/funchat/

THE BEST PHONE SEX
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AMATEUR SITE OF THE DAY
JAMIE WYLDE: A 36 year old Canadian amateur who has the body
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............................ http://amateurindex.com/eureka/

EROTIC STORY SITE OF THE DAY
Planet Mojo: Mojo  brings  you  the  juiciest erotic stories
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Every day  we bring you an exclusive  choice pic of a famous
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===========================================================
TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS NEWSLETTER, USE THE REPLY FUNCTION
IN YOUR EMAIL PROGRAM, AND SEND THIS NEWSLETTER BACK TO US.
===========================================================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: steve@playgal.com
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 02:11:27 -0800 (PST)
To: webmasters@playgal.com
Subject: Special Announcement from Intertain and Playgal
Message-ID: <199801111434.JAA10601@playgal.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Both Richard from Intertain and I ( Dean from Playgal ) are pleased to
announce a strategic alliance between the Intertain and Playgal group of
businesses. This alliance will take the form of a partnership between the
two entities.

Intertain was one of the first ever ( arguably the first ) sites to charge
a monthly membership fee and has been around from the begining. Playgal
came into the industry this year. Both companies are multi million dollar
businesses with extensive asset backing and have a great deal of
resources.
We have a very solid track record of payment and integrity within the
adult industry.

Our first new joint venture under the partnership is the lateset mega site
UNFAITHFUL at http://www.unfaithful.com . We anticpate Unfaithful will be
more successful than our current group of sites.

To launch our new site we have put together a new click through program
"Unfaithful EasyCash" http://www.unfaithful.com/easycash which will give
webmasters the best of both worlds : - a high minimum payout guaranteed
and conversion rate bonuses over and above the minimum payout.

You will be guaranteed a minimum payout of 7.5 cents a unique hit ( not
unique visit ) - which means you will be paid 7.5 cents everytime an
individual person clicks on your banner each day. We are not filtering
hits - you get paid on unique hits to the front page - this should mean your
unique to raw ratio should be high.

You can earn conversion rate bonuses up to $5 per unique hit - with many
entry points along the way to ensure your revenue is maximized. 

You get paid by check or wire transfer every 2 weeks.

Goto http://www.unfaithful.com/easycash to see the full payout table.

We are offering:

* 3,000 live video feeds, hardcore streaming videos, QT/AVI and LIVE sex shows!
* Exclusive pictorial content updated each month!
* FREE MEMBERSHIP
* The highest quality "HARDCORE" pictures on the planet!

How easy is that to sell memberships ? The site and the EasyCash clickthrough 
has been designed to maximize revenue for both us and your banner partners.

If you have good quality traffic then this is the clickthrough that will
suit your site.

As part of our strategy we will be limiting the amount of traffic sent to
this site to avoid over saturation - so today is the day to sign up for
unfaithful at http://www.unfaithful.com/easycash while it is new and we
have available spaces. 

Judge for yourselves for today http://www.unfaithful.com is a top class
site.

Everyone should have an opportunity to increase revenue from their sites
by including Unfaithful.

Please direct all operational questions to steve@playgal.com as i am on my
way to IA2000.

Thanks for your time and have a prosperous new year.

Sign up now http://www.unfaithful.com/easycash

Regards


Dean
CEO
dean@unfaithful.com  or
thegeneral@playgal.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 93157112@ix.netcom.com
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 13:14:14 -0800 (PST)
To: 75359351@ix.netcom.com
Subject: Email your AD to 57 MILLION People  ONLY $99
Message-ID: <269741324913.GAA23595@eieaaajj.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



        57 MILLION EMAILS FOR ONLY $99 
            INCLUDES STEALTH MAILER

  That's right, I have 57 Million  Fresh  email addresses that I will sell for only $99.   These are all fresh addresses that include almost every person on the internet today,  with no duplications.  They are all sorted and ready to be mailed.  That is the best deal anywhere today !  Imagine selling a product for only $5 and getting  only a 1/10% response.   That's  $2,850,000  in your pocket !!! Don't believe it? People are making that kind of money right now by doing the same thing, that is why you get so much email from people selling you their product....it works !  I will even tell you how to mail them with easy to follow step-by-step instruction I include with every order.  These 57 Million email addresses are yours to keep, so you can use them over and over and they come on 1 CD.  I will also include the stealth mailer - this is a full version of the incredibly fast mailing program that hides your email address when you send mail so no one
 will find out where it came from and you won't lose your dial up account. The stealth mailer  is an incredible program and absolutly FREE with your order !  If you are not making at least $50,000 a month, then ORDER NOW. 

ORDER NOW BY FAX:  Simply print out this order form and fax it to us along with  your check made payable to: Future WT  for only $99.  
Our Fax # is:  602 348 2955
We will confirm your order by email and then mail your cd out the same day via priority mail.

Name:_____________________________

Street Address:______________________________

City:_____________________       

State:________________ZipCode:_____________

Phone number:__________________________

Email:_______________________________
Tape your check here.  Returned checks are subject to $25 NSF Fee.
                Fax it to   602 348 2955
                                Or
You can mail a check or money order to:
FutureWT
15560 N. Frank Lloyd Wright  #b-4187
Scottsdale, AZ  85260

If you want to be removed from our mailing list just send a email here














57 million plus mailing program for only $99





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: hethr@ntr.net
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 15:31:14 -0800 (PST)
To: hethr@ntr.net
Subject: Hello, enjoy it..
Message-ID: <199801112329.SAA13169@rome.ntr.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



CHECKS PAID TO YOU UP-FRONT 6 DAYS A WEEK!

LEARN THE SECRET TO MAKING $1750.00 - $2175.00 
A WEEK SITTING AT YOUR HOME COMPUTER FOR 
JUST A COUPLE HOURS A DAY!   PART-TIME!

IN JUST 10 MINUTES WE'LL SHOW YOU AN EASY 
WAY TO MAKE MONEY WITH YOUR COMPUTER.

It's fun, it's rewarding, and it's easy.  This is so simple
most children could do it!  All you need is a computer and 
E-Mail address to begin making excellent money while 
relaxing in the comfort of your own home.  

All it takes is a couple hours a day and you can make
$1750.00 a week, or even $2175.00 (TWO THOUSAND 
ONE HUNDRED AND SEVENTY FIVE DOLLARS)  
There are people doing this every week.  Right now there 
are only a few people around the country who know how 
to do this.  And these few people are having the best time 
of their lives while their computers make them a high level 
of income.   

Even if you are happy with your current job, you can use 
this easy system in your spare time to create a nice extra 
income.  And let us assure you this system is completely 
legal.  We are so sure anyone can make a great extra 
income with this unique system, we will even let you try it 
out for 30 days!  And if you're not 100% satisfied, just send 
it back within 30 days and we will be more than happy to 
give you a full refund.  

Once you begin to see how easy it is to make money with 
your computer, you will wish you had received this letter a 
long time ago.  Anyone can do this, and since very little of 
your time is required, you will have more free time to spend 
doing the things you have always wanted to do.

So take the first step toward financial freedom and order 
this powerful money making system today!  You'll be glad 
you did!

This system has sold nationwide for as much as $29.95
And in 2 weeks we may be raising the price of our money 
making system.  Send in your order before then to be 
sure you receive it for only $14.95   

To receive your copy of our SIMPLE COMPUTER MONEY 
MAKING SYSTEM, along with a full 30 day money back 
guarantee, send a check or money order for $14.95 
payable to:

Crown Industries
1630 North Main St. Suite# 310
Walnut Creek,  CA  94596

Allow 4-6 days for delivery
(We do not accept orders from the state of Florida)

P.S.  We guarantee our "Computer Money Making
System" is the most complete and incredible money
making system for quick success you will ever use.
If you are not totally convinced that it's the greatest
work at home program anywhere, simply send it 
back for a fast hassle free refund.  

Due to the high response rate, we are not able to
answer questions or take orders by e-mail.   Please
direct all business to our postal address listed above.

Thank you,
Crown Industries










































From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 08145628@usa.net
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 17:41:54 -0800 (PST)
To: subscriber@bigdally.com
Subject: >>FREE LOW RATE PHONE CARD GIVEAWAY...
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Please respond to the following important message
Do Not hit reply
This is a onetime message


                              <><><><><><><><><><><><>

                                         "NEWS FLASH"

                              <><><><><><><><><><><><>

*************************************************************************************
LS Enterprises, LLC teams up with top player in the phone card industry.

************************************************************************************

To celebrate we would like to give you a FREE re-chargable TELECARD. 
Use it anytime, anywhere in the U.S. Pay only 19 cents per minute.


LS Enterprises, LLC has just signed a major marketing, distributor contract 
with "New Media Telecom Inc.". This means all our valued subscribers, 
Students, vacationers, Travelers, Business people, etc.. Can now reap 
huge savings on long distance calls made from home or away from home. 

Phone cards are finding their way into the hands of just about everyone 
who needs an easy and inexpensive way to make phone calls. 
Everybody can now harvest the benefits of owning their own Pre-paid 
Phone Card. 


**START SAVING MONEY ON LONG DISTANCE TODAY! 

Here's just a few of the advantages that Pre-paid phone cards offer: 

*Low domestic and international long distance rates. New Media Telecom 
phone card long distance rates are substantially lower than most payphone, 
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The average long distance phone call away from home using AT&T, Sprint, 
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Now you can make calls anytime, anywhere for one flat fee from "ANY" touch
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+No minimum use/time limits. 


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>You determine the dollar balance of your card (minimum $25 or 131 
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Type "FREE CARD" in the "SUBJECT FIELD".

Please include the following information in your email message so 
we can mail your card out today!

NAME
ADDRESS
CITY, STATE, ZIP
PHONE


Request Card Now..Click Here









                    ----------------------- Headers --------------------------------
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Message-ID: <4352674773897483244515@num5.com>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <3431jpg@peterville.com>































From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: telcard@worldnet.att.net
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 02:13:13 -0800 (PST)
To: host@savings.com
Subject: Hi
Message-ID: <9876569865.dre98755@savings.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


When was the last time you figured out your rate on your long-distance bill?  Did you know that 62% of all
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a purchase.

PS.  Refer a friend and receive a FREE 10 MINUTE card with their purchase!

* Per minute of calling within the continental US





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: eureka@eureka.abc-web.com
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 04:10:08 -0800 (PST)
To: All Eureka! Subscribers: ;
Subject: Eureka! Fri Jan 9 '98
Message-ID: <19980112083222.25625.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Welcome to Friday's issue of Eureka!

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===========================================================
TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS NEWSLETTER, USE THE REPLY FUNCTION
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===========================================================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Friend@public.com
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 12:09:42 -0800 (PST)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: Just Released!  16 Million!
Message-ID: <24891738_24760960>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



IT WAS JUST RELEASED!!
 
INTRODUCING...MILLIONS VOL. 1

We took a total of over 92 million email addresses from many of the
touted CD's that are out there (bought them all - some were $300+)!
We added the millions we had in storage to those.   When we
combined them all, we had in  excess of 100+ million addresses
in one huge file.

We then ran a super "sort/de-dupe" program against this huge list.
It cut the file down to less than 25 million!!! Can you believe that? It
seems that most people that are selling CD's are duping the public
by putting numerous files of addresses in the CD over and over. This
created many duplicate addresses. They also had many program
 "generated" email addresses like Compuserve, MCI, ANON's, etc.
This causes a tremendous amount of undeliverables, and for  those
that use Stealth programs, clogs up servers quickly with trash, etc.

We then ran a program that contained 150+ keywords to remove
addresses with vulgarity,  profanity, sex-related names, postmaster,
 webmaster, flamer, abuse, spam, etc., etc.   Also eliminated all .edu,
.mil, .org, .gov, etc.   After that list was run against the remaining list,
it  reduced it down to near 16 million addresses!

So, you see, our list will save people hundreds of dollars buying all
others that are out there on  CD and otherwise. Using ours will be like
 using the 100+ million that we started with, but a lot  less money and
alot less time!!

We also purchased Cyber-Promos ($995.00) CD.   We received it just
prior to finishing production work on the new CD.   We had our people
take a random sample of 300,000 addresses  from the touted 2.9 that
they advertised.   We used a program that allows us to take a random
sample of addresses from any list.   We were able to have the program
take every 9th address, thus giving us a 300,000 list of Cyber's email
addresses from top to bottom.  We did not clean  these, but we did create
3 seperate files named cyber1.txt, cyber2.txt, & cyber3.txt of 100,000
addresses each. This will give all people that use the list a opportunity to
send mail to the list before deciding if their CD is all it's hyped to be.

We also included a 2+ million "Remove/Flamer" file broke into seperate
files for ease of  extracting and adding to your own database of removes.

 "You can buy from the REST or you can buy from the BEST.   Your choice.
_____________________________

What others are saying:
 
"I received the CD on Friday evening.   Like a kid with a new toy, I
immediately started bulking out using the new email addresses.  Over
the course of the weekend, I emailed out over 500,000 emails and I
received less than TWENTY undeliverables!!  I am totally satisfied
with my purchase!!  Thanks Premier!!"

Dave Buckley
Houston,  TX

"This list is worth it's weight in gold!!  I sent out 100,000 emails for my
product and received over 55 orders!

Ann Colby
New Orleans, LA

****************************************
 
                  HERE'S THE BOTTOM LINE

Here is what you get when you order today!

>> 16 Million Email Addresses... 1 per line in simple text format on a CD.
Files are in lots of 100,000 (no codes needed to open files).
All files are separated by domain name for your convenience.
 
PLUS you receive a tremendous REMOVE list!
 
AND
 
the a sampling of CyberPromo's HOT list.

>>> NOW ONLY $149.00!

This price is effective for the next seven days, thereafter the price will be
$199.00 so ORDER NOW!

All lists are completely free of any Duplicates. We also on a continual
basis, add New Names and Remove Undeliverables and Remove
Requests.
 
The result is the Cleanest Email Addresses Available Anywhere
to use over and over again, for a FRACTION of the cost that other
companies charge. Typical rates for acquiring email lists are from
1 cent to as high as 3 cents per email address - that's
"INFORMATION HIGHWAY" ROBBERY!.

Don't even hesitate on this one or you will miss out on the most
effective way to market anywhere..PERIOD!

If you have any further questions or to place an order by
phone, please do not hesitate to call us at:

                              908-245-1143

To order our email package, simply print out the EZ ORDER FORM
below and fax or mail it to our office today.
 
We accept Visa, Mastercard, AMEX, Checks by Fax and Mail.
 
 _________________
EZ Order Form
 
 
 _____Yes! I would like to order MILLIONS Vol. 1 email addresses
for only $149.00.
 
 
*Please select one of the following for shipping..
 
____I would like to receive my package OVERNIGHT. I'm including
$15 for shipping. (outside US add an additional $25 for shipping)
 
____I would like to receive my package 2 DAY delivery. I'm including
$10 for shipping.  (outside US add an additional $25 for shipping)
 
DATE_____________________________________________________
 
NAME____________________________________________________

COMPANY NAME___________________________________________

ADDRESS_________________________________________________

CITY, STATE, ZIP___________________________________________
 
PHONE NUMBERS__________________________________________
 
FAX NUMBERS_____________________________________________
 
EMAIL ADDRESS___________________________________________
 
TYPE OF CREDIT CARD:
 
______VISA _____MASTERCARD
 
CREDIT CARD# __________________________________________
 
EXPIRATION DATE________________________________________
 
NAME ON CARD___________________________________________
 
AMOUNT $____________________
 
 
(Required) SIGNATURE:x________________________
 
DATE:x__________________
 
You may fax your order to us at:   1-908-245-3119
 
CHECK BY FAX SERVICES!
 
If you would like to fax a check, paste your check below and fax it to
our office along with all forms to: 1-908-245-3119

******************************************************

***24 HOUR FAX SERVICES*** PLEASE PASTE YOUR
 
CHECK HERE AND FAX IT TO US AT 1-908-245-3119
 
*******************************************************
 
If You fax a check, there is no need for you to send the original check.
We will draft up a new check, with the exact information from your
original check. All checks will be held for bank clearance.

If you feel more comfortable sending payment through the mail,
please send all forms and Check or Money Order to:
 
Rapture Marketing Inc.
P.O. Box 616
Kenilworth, NJ 07033






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: westcomm@teleport.com
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 18:51:06 -0800 (PST)
To: westcomm@teleport.com
Subject: Win Property!  (just like Spitfire Grill!)	Win a 16-ROOM MOTEL on the OREGON COAST!  			--or--	Win a Tavern/Town in Austin, OREGON (see below)
Message-ID: <199801130250.SAA25582@smtp3.teleport.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


			The Contests of the Century                                           

Remember SpitFire Grill?  Well, David Persha, owner of House on
the Hill Motel in Oceanside, Oregon, is giving away his
16-room motel in a very unique contest! Each guest room has a wonderful
view of the ocean, and 8 rooms feature full kitchens. There is also a large conference room, as well as other quality amenities!

The motel sits on over 45,000 square feet of land, with the main building's having been constructed in 1990. The motel is a turnkey operation in beautiful shape, with an approximate Market Value of $1.5 Million according to an appraisal performed 4 years ago.

Mr. Persha is 71 years old and is looking for new blood to take over
his motel! The contest conforms fully to all national,international, and Oregon law, thereby making it open to anybody in the world over 18 years of age.

The Motel WILL BE yours debt-free if you submit a valid entry and the
winning 250 word essay, which will be judged for originality and wit, inspiration, creativity, expression of thought, human interest, and "the conveyance of a genuine desire to run a motel on the (Oregon) coast."

For complete rules and and entry form, please send $10 to cover the
cost of handling to Contest Guidelines, West Coast Communications, P.O. Box 7434 Salem, OR 97303. For quickest response please include email address.  

	DEADLINE FOR COMPLETED ENTRIES IS FEBRUARY 20. 1998, so ACT NOW!

Please make checks payable to West Coast Communications.


West Coast Communications
P.O. Box 7434
Salem, OR 97303

------------------------------------------------------------------------
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
		SEE BELOW FOR SPECIAL RATE on BOTH contests!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
------------------------------------------------------------------------

			"WIN-A-TOWN" IN AUSTIN, OREGON!!

Another great contest!  Like SpitFire Grill and Persha's Motel Contest (above), Leonard West is giving away his tavern in Austin, Oregon!  

Eastern Oregon . . . closely knit families, neighbors down the road. . . a great place to raise a family!  And, "WIN-a-TOWN!" (The Austin House, 225 miles east of Portland, Oregon, consists of a tavern, restaurant, grocery store, post office, garage and gas pumps.)

This is the REAL WEST.  So ruggedly picturesque, that a Marlboro ad was
shot nearby.

The property WILL BE yours if you submit the winning 250 word essay, whichwill be judged for appreciation of the establishment and its charms, "plus a willingness to honor its. . .traditions."

For complete rules and and entry form, please send $10 to cover the cost
of postage to 

West Coast Communications, 
P.O. Box 7434 
Salem, OR 97303.

you may send questions and comments to mailto:  westcomm@teleport.com for a very short time.  We are changing servers on January 10, so address will change.

For quickest response please include email address.  
------------------------------------------------------------------------
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
IF YOU WOULD LIKE INFORMATION ABOUT **both** CONTESTS, THE TOTAL CHARGE IS ONLY 15.00!  PLEASE SEND CHECK FOR 15.00 for information about ENTRY,  RULES, and DEADLINES FOR BOTH CONTESTS!  
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
  GGGG         OOO      OOO    DDDD        LL       UU UU     CCCC     K K    !!
 GG              OO OO  OO OO  DD DD       LL       UU UU   CC            K K     !!
 GG GGG     OO OO  OO OO  DD DD       LL       UU UU   CC            K K    !!
  GGGG         OOO      OOO    DDDD        LLLLL   UUU       CCCC     K   K  !!
 
West Coast Communications does not own property which is involved in
these contests. West Coast Communications is not a judge in these contests, nor are we responsible in any way for the contents of, or the contest rules.








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: monica_e19@hotmail.com
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 15:17:48 -0800 (PST)
To: monica_e19@hotmail.com
Subject: Free Live Sex!!!
Message-ID: <0000000000.AAA000@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



 ****************Attention Video Sex Lovers*****************
Never Pay for Video Sex ever again. Brand New Totally Free Live Video Sex Website.
Come Check out unlimited Live Video sex Channels.
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Not Forgeting our XXX rated Chatroom, photo gallery, and so much more!




















From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "CLAUD W WELCH" 
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 14:53:01 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: unsolved billing problem
Message-ID: <06a0d1013010d18UPIMSSMTPUSR03@email.msn.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I cancelled my membership prior to the end of two days. i would like a
refund.








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: eureka@eureka.abc-web.com
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 17:33:08 -0800 (PST)
To: All Eureka! Subscribers: ;
Subject: Eureka! Mon Jan 12 '98
Message-ID: <19980112233022.11607.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Welcome to Monday's issue of Eureka!

We must  apologise to those  readers who  may have  received
Friday's edition for the last three days.  We have corrected
the problem and it will not happen again. Thank you for your
patience!

HE GIRLS!
This site calls itself  "The original She-Male, slut wonder-
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HeGirls ... http://207.33.10.198/cgi-bin/gate1/pbm/he_0024/0

GAYEUREKA!
The gay  newsletter is now  available.  You can get it here!
Gay Eureka! ........... http://eureka.abc-web.com/gayeureka/

EUREKA! TRANSLATIONS
As well as English you can now choose any of these languages
DEUTSCH ....... http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/deutsch.htm
ESPAŃOL ....... http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/espanol.htm
FRANÇAIS ..... http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/francais.htm
ITALIANO ..... http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/italiano.htm
PORTUGUESE . http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/portuguese.htm

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Xaavier's Wonderland ............ http://www.netamateur.com/

GALS OF PLEASURE
Scroll down the page to the beach babes, there you will find
links to some  really good looking women  enjoying the sand.
There are several other categories as well. Even a fist pic!
Gals of Pleasure .............. http://209.136.127.185/gals/

FREAK MAMA SEX SHOW CIRCUS
At this site you will find girls sucking on dicks with juice
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Freak Mama Sex Show Circus ............ http://sexstasy.com/

4BOOBS
This website has it all. Asian, black, blonde, bondage, toys
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links are listed in plain text among the  banners.  You have
got to see the blondes! There is one pulling on her panties!
4Boobs .............................. http://www.4boobs.com/

FREE STREAMING VIDEO
Please note that most of these feeds require a Netscape bro-
wser in order to successfully view them. Unfortunately Micr-
osoft's browser does not have all the features of Netscape's
yet.  However, many of the feeds use the RealPlayer and will
work in most browsers.  If you do not have Netscape and want
a free copy click here ... http://www.netscape.com/download/
20vids+Chat .. http://209.1.31.175/chat/videochat.cgi?eureka

CHAT WITH OTHER READERS
This chat is growing fast, and already there are a number of
regulars  you will meet most days.  It's good to see Eureka!
readers interacting with each other and having a great time!
Adult/Sex Chat .................. http://137.39.63.229/chat/
General/Fun Chat ........ http://137.39.63.229/chat/funchat/

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===========================================================
TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS NEWSLETTER, USE THE REPLY FUNCTION
IN YOUR EMAIL PROGRAM, AND SEND THIS NEWSLETTER BACK TO US.
===========================================================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: eureka@eureka.abc-web.com
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 02:11:35 -0800 (PST)
To: All Eureka! Subscribers: ;
Subject: Eureka! Tue Jan 13 '98
Message-ID: <19980113081932.19877.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Welcome to Tuesday's issue of Eureka!

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Please note that most of these feeds require a Netscape bro-
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Pic  6 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?135
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Pic  8 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?137
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Pic 10 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?139

============================================================
TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS NEWSLETTER,  USE THE REPLY FUNCTION
IN YOUR EMAIL PROGRAM, AND SEND THIS EMAIL RIGHT BACK TO US.
============================================================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 34er5dd@ameritech.net
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 18:03:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: confidential report
Message-ID: <33085BD248C@yogya.wasantara.net.id>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This is an ad. To be removed from *this* mailing list, please email
to mhr@magaygy.maga.co.id
Thank you and good luck in all you do.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Revealing the secrets which have been made others so fabulously wealthy.

OFFSHORE SPECIAL REPORT #5599

* UNFAIR & DISCRIMINATORY Divorce Settlements are Obsolete in This Report!
* RUTHLESS Creditors Will CRINGE If They Know You Have Read This Report!
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* SNEAKY Politicians Use The Information In This Report Everyday!
* Your GREEDY Banker Does Not Want You To Read This Report!
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* BACK STABBING Relatives HATE This Report!

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<> How the RICH & POLITICIANS get even richer using trusts and how you can do the same!
<> Incorporate Offshore -- Completely private & away from your government's regulation!
<> Your own secret offshore mailing address -- No one will know your real address!
<> Offshore private checking accounts -- Deposit money & pay your bills from offshore - no paper trails!
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FREE Self-Liquidating Loan  concept 
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WHO NEEDS THIS REPORT?

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SPECIAL OFFER!!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Those who order the report by January 16, 1998 are 
eligible to receive FREE BONUS #2, #3, #4 and #5 below.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

FREE BONUS #2
Self-Liquidating Loan Report

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you could put your own Self-Liquidating Loan 
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A "Self-Liquidating" loan is a  financial 
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to be repaid! I MEAN NEVER! Since the lender 
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the FREE BONUSES!



________________CUT HERE _________________

_____Yes, I am ordering within the allotted time period. I understand 
I will receive ALL the FREE bonuses *)

_____ I order after January 16, 1998. I understand I 
have full reprint rights and can sell the report #5599 
KEEPING ALL THE MONEY.

*) We will check the post mark out.

Payment method:
For those who live in the countries listed below**) please send the money
using Postal Service. Other countries please send International
Money Order (no personal checks please).

*** Make Money Orders payable to Mahirudin Masri ***

Mail to: 

Tromol Pos 105
Yogyakarta 55002
Indonesia

First and last name: _____________________________________

Address: _____________________________________________

City: ____________________State:______ZIP/postal code: __________

Country: ___________________________

E-mail address: ______________________________________

Date: _______________________________


Code: tiga03 (do not remove this)

________________CUT HERE _________________

**)
Austria, Brasil, Brunei D, Germany, Japan, Malaysia, Netherland,
Philippine, Singapore, South Korea, Taiwan, Thailand, U.S.A.








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 10:30:22 -0800 (PST)
To: dcsb-announce@ai.mit.edu
Subject: DCSB: Michael Baum; PKI and the Commercial CA
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

              The Digital Commerce Society of Boston

                            Presents

                        Michael S. Baum
                         VeriSign, Inc.

                        PKI Requirements
                             from a
                   Commercial CA's Perspective

                    Tuesday, February 3, 1997
                           12 - 2 PM
               The Downtown Harvard Club of Boston
                  One Federal Street, Boston, MA


Requirements for the provision of commercial certification products and
services are under consideration by many companies. Similarly, efforts to
regulate certification authorities (CAs) and public key infrastructure (PKI)
are proliferating by many domestic and foreign governments. Underlying many
of these efforts is the intention to assess and assure quality and
trustworthiness, and yet the nature, scope and regime to accomplish these
goals remain elusive or at least have been balkanized.

This presentation will consider CA and PKI requirements from the experiences
and perspective of a commercial CA. It will survey current approaches to
ascertaining quality and performance as well as their limitations. It will
then propose a path forward. Many of these issues are present real
challenges to both the CAs and the user community. A lively dialog is
welcomed.


Michael S. Baum is Vice President of Practices and External Affairs,
VeriSign, Inc.  His responsibilities include developing practices and
controls under which VeriSign conducts its public Digital ID and private
label certificate operations.

Mr. Baum is the Chair of the Information Security Committee, and Council
Member of the Section of Science and Technology, of the American Bar
Association. He is Chairman of the International Chamber of Commerce (ICC)
ETERMS Working Party and a Vice Chairman of the ICC's Electronic Commerce
Project, a delegate to the United Nations Commission on International Trade
Law on behalf of the ICC. He is a member of various digital signature
legislative advisory committees.

Mr. Baum is co-author (with Warwick Ford) of Secure Electronic Commerce
(Prentice Hall, 1997), author of Federal Certification Authority Liability
and Policy - Law and Policy of Certificate-Based Public Key and Digital
Signatures (NIST, 1994), co-author of Electronic Contracting, Publishing and
EDI Law (Wiley Law Publications, 1991), and contributing author to EDI and
the Law (Blenheim Online, 1989), and the author of diverse information
security publications including the first American articles on EDI law. He
was honored as an EDI Pioneer in 1993 (EDI Forum) and was the Recipient of
the National Notary Association's 1995 Achievement Award. He is a member of
the Massachusetts Bar.


This meeting of the Digital Commerce Society of Boston will be held on
Tuesday, February 3, 1997, from 12pm - 2pm at the Downtown Branch of the
Harvard Club of Boston, on One Federal Street. The price for lunch is
$32.50. This price includes lunch, room rental, various A/V hardware, and
the speaker's lunch. ;-).  The Harvard Club *does* have dress code: jackets
and ties for men (and no sneakers or jeans), and "appropriate business
attire" (whatever that means), for women.  Fair warning: since we purchase
these luncheons in advance, we will be unable to refund the price of your
lunch if the Club finds you in violation of the dress code.

We will attempt to record this meeting for sale on CD/R, and to put it on
the web in RealAudio format, at some future date.


We need to receive a company check, or money order, (or, if we *really* know
you, a personal check) payable to "The Harvard Club of Boston", by Saturday,
January 31st, or you won't be on the list for lunch.  Checks payable to
anyone else but The Harvard Club of Boston will have to be sent back.

Checks should be sent to Robert Hettinga, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston,
Massachusetts, 02131. Again, they *must* be made payable to "The Harvard
Club of Boston", in the amount of $32.50. Please include your e-mail
address, so that we can send you a confirmation

If anyone has questions, or has a problem with these arrangements (We've had
to work with glacial A/P departments more than once, for instance), please
let us know via e-mail, and we'll see if we can work something out.

Upcoming speakers for DCSB are:

March     Joseph Reagle       "Social Protocols": Meta-data
                               and Negotiation in Digital Commerce
April     Adam Shostack       Digital Commerce Security:
                               Beyond Firewalls
May       Jeremey Barrett     Digital Bearer Certificate Protocols


We are actively searching for future speakers.  If you are in Boston on the
first Tuesday of the month, and you would like to make a presentation to the
Society, please send e-mail to the DCSB Program Commmittee, care of Robert
Hettinga, .


For more information about the Digital Commerce Society of Boston, send
"info dcsb" in the body of a message to  . If
you want to subscribe to the DCSB e-mail list, send "subscribe dcsb" in the
body of a message to  .

We look forward to seeing you there!

Cheers,
Robert Hettinga
Moderator,
The Digital Commerce Society of Boston


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-----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/
Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: 






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Trans World Specials" 
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 15:27:13 -0800 (PST)
To: Trans World Airlines Customers 
Subject: Trans World Specials Fare Sales
Message-ID: <19980113212723.6980.qmail@inet2.twa.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Welcome to Trans World Specials for
 January 13, 1998.  All tickets must be
 purchased by January 16, 1998.  Fares
 are valid for travel originating
 1/17/98 and returning 1/19/98 or
 1/20/98.  
 
 We have some great fares to great cities
 for you again this week.  Call right away
 and take advantage.  Have you read about
 our new Trans World First service?  Read
 about it at http://www.twa.com
 
 On to this week's Trans World Specials.
 
 
 Roundtrip Fare:		To/From:
 
 $69			St. Louis (STL) / Nashville (BNA)
 $69			Washington, DC (National) / New York (JFK) *
 			
 			* TWA Flights only. Trans World Express excluded
 
 
 $79			Detroit (DTW) / New York (JFK)  nonstop only
 
 
 $99			Chicago (ORD) / New York (JFK)  nonstop only
 $99			St. Louis (STL) / Atlanta (ATL)
 $99			St. Louis (STL) / Washington, DC (National only)
 
 
 $129			Cedar Rapids (CID) / Atlanta (ATL)
 $129			Hartford (BDL) / Houston (HOU)
 $129			Lincoln (LNK) / Atlanta (ATL)
 $129			Nashville (BNA) / Salt Lake City (SLC)
 $129			St. Louis (STL) / Colorado Springs (COS)
 $129			St. Louis (STL) / Hartford (BDL)
 $129			St. Louis (STL) / Houston (HOU)
 $129			St. Louis (STL) / New York (LGA)
 $129			St. Louis (STL) / Norfolk (ORF)
 $129			St. Louis (STL) / Toronto (YYZ) **
 $129			Colorado Springs (COS) / Toronto (YYZ) **
 $129			San Antonio (SAT) / Toronto (YYZ) **
 
 
 $159			Boston (BOS) / Colorado Springs (COS)
 $159			Hartford (BDL) / Colorado Springs (COS)
 $159			Nashville (BNA) / Ontario, CA (ONT)
 $159			Nashville (BNA) / Portland, OR (PDX)
 $159			Nashville (BNA) / San Jose, CA (SJC)
 $159			New York (LGA) / Colorado Springs (COS)
 $159			Norfolk (ORF) / Colorado Springs (COS)
 $159			St. Louis (STL) / Ontario, CA (ONT)
 $159			St. Louis (STL) / Portland, OR (PDX)
 $159			Washington, DC (National) / Colorado Springs (COS)
 
 
 $179			Boston (BOS) / Ontario, CA (ONT)
 $179			Hartford (BDL) / Ontario, CA (ONT)
 $179			Los Angeles (LAX) / New York (JFK)  nonstop only
 $179			New York (JFK) / Las Vegas (LAS)  nonstop only
 $179			Norfolk (ORF) / Ontario, CA (ONT)
 $179			Ontario, CA (ONT) / New York (LGA)
 $179			Ontario, CA (ONT) / Washington, DC (DCA)
 $179			Ontario, CA (ONT) / Toronto (YYZ) **
 
 ** Fares are valid for U.S. origins only.  Fares for Canadian origins may differ.
 All travel is valid on TWA only.
 
 Call TWA at 1-800-221-2000 and book your Trans World Special now.
 
 
 ******************************GETAWAY VACATIONS*************************
 
 Puerto Vallarta -- Sheraton Buganvilias includes:
 
 - roundtrip airfare
 - 2 nights hotel accommodations at the deluxe Sheraton Buganvilias Resort
 - airport transfers
 - 2000 bonus FFB miles in addition to actual mileage earned
 - only $399 from St. Louis
 - $459 from Chicago, Des Moines, Detroit, Indianapolis, Kansas City, Little Rock,
   Moline, Nashville, and Omaha.
 - $519 from Cincinnati, Cleveland, Columbus, Dayton, Milwaukee and Minneapolis
 
 
 London Theatre Week includes:
 
 - roundtrip airfare
 - Continental buffet breakfast
 - half-day sightseeing tour
 - tickets for 2 plays or musicals
 - choice of first-class or superior first-class hotel
 - bonus 5000 FFB miles in addition to actual mileage earned
 - valid for 2/6/98 or 2/27/98 departures
 - only $1099 from Chicago, Cincinnati, Dallas, Houston, Minneapolis and St. Louis
 - $1179	from Austin, Columbus, Dayton, Indianapolis, Kansas City, Oklahoma City
    San Antonio, and Tulsa
 
 For reservations call 1-800-GETAWAY (438-2929) today !	
 
 
 *********************************ALAMO**********************************
 
 Alamo offers these low rates for an economy car valid 1/17/98 - 1/19/98
 
 $16.99		Houston, San Antonio
 
 $17.99		Chicago, Detroit, Nashville, St. Louis, Toronto
 
 $18.99		Colorado Springs, Las Vegas, Portland (OR)
 
 $20.99		Atlanta, Hartford, Norfolk, Washington-DC, 
 
 $21.99		Los Angeles
 
 For reservations call Alamo at 1-800-GO-ALAMO and request rate code RT and
 ID # 443833. For online reservations access http://www.goalamo.com
 
 
 ********************************Hilton Hotels & Resorts*****************
 
 Hilton Hotels/Resorts offers these low rates valid the nights of 1/17/98-1/19/98
 
 
 $55	Washington National Airport Hilton, Arlington, VA (free airport shuttle, 	
         only 5 minutes from the sites of DC)
 
 $65	Galveston Island Hilton Resort, TX ( located directly on the beach; hotel
         offers tennis and outdoor pool)
 
 $69	Los Angeles Airport Hilton & Towers (free airport shuttle, fitness center, 
         outdoor pool and 12 restaurants)
 
 $79	Colonial Hilton & Resort, MA ( located 12 miles north of downtown Boston)
 
 $87	Detroit Metro Airport Hilton Suites ( suite accommodations, full american 
         breakfast and beverage reception)
 
 $88	O'Hare Hilton, Chicago ( connected to O'Hare via walkway, 18 miles from 
 	downtown)
 
 $99	The Capitol Hilton, Washington-DC ( in the heart of DC, 2 blocks from the
         White House)
 
 $131	Alanta Hilton & Towers ( pool, fitness center, tennis courts and easy 
         access to area attractions)
 
 For reservations call Hilton at 1-800-774-1500 and ask for Hilton Value Rates.
 Visit Hilton at http://www.hilton.com
 
 
 ***********************************TERMS & CONDITIONS*******************
 
 
 Airfare Terms and Conditions: 
 GENERAL CONDITIONS: Fares shown are round trip, nonrefundable and are subject to change. 
 Changes to itinerary are not permitted. Fares do not include Passenger Facility Charges of 
 up to $12 depending on itinerary. Must use E-Ticketing and credit card is the only form of 
 payment accepted. Offer is not available in conjunction with any other discount, coupon or 
 promotional offer. Seats are limited and may not be available on all flights or days of the
 week. Tickets must be purchased at time of booking and no later than 1/16/98. Standby 
 passengers not allowed. Valid for outbound travel on Saturday (1/17) and return Monday 
 (1/19) or Tuesday (1/20). Travel is effective 1/17/98 with all travel to be completed by 
 1/20/98. Minimum stay is 2 days. Maximum stay is 3 days. Travel to/from Canada a $6 US 
 departure tax is additional. 
 
 Getaway Conditions: 
 ALL PACKAGES: All packages include round-trip economy airfare. Price is per person based on 
 double occupancy and is subject to change. Availability, restrictions, surcharges, blackouts
 and cancellation penalties apply. No other discounts or promotions are valid in conjunction 
 with these packages. DOMESTIC CONDITIONS: Depart for Puerto Vallarta Tuesday or Sunday and 
 return Thursday or Tuesday. Travel valid for departures 2/3, 2/8 or 2/10 and return 2/5,
 2/10, or 2/12 LIMITED AVAILABLITY. Price does not include Passenger Facility Charges, US 
 departure, agricultural, customs & immigration tax of up to $54 per person. Full payment due
 by 1/19/98. 
 
 INTERNATIONAL CONDITIONS: Seats are limited and may not be available on all flights. Price 
 does not include Passenger Facility Charges, US departure/arrival, agriculture and security
 fees from point of origin of travel up to approximately $85 per person. Price includes 
 standard room - superior rooms have an additional charge. Full payment is required by 
 1/16/98.  
 
 Car Rental Conditions: 
 Taxes (including in California, VLF taxes ranging up to $1.89 per day), registrations 
 fee/tax reimbursement, and airport access fees/taxes, if any, are extra. Optional CDW, 
 liability insurance, fuel, additional driver fee, drop charges and other optional items are
 extra. Rates higher for renters under age 25. Rates valid for rentals commencing on Saturday
 and ending by 11:59 PM on Tuesday. Rates only valid during week in which they are published 
 via TWA Internet site. A 24-hour advance reservation is required. Availability is limited. 
 
 Hotel Conditions: 
 Hilton Hotels and Resorts special rates are available only during the specific week in which
 they are published via the TWA Hot Deals Internet site and the HiltonNet Internet site.
 Limited availability; rooms at these Hilton Value Rates are sold on a first-come, 
 first-served basis. Availability, rate, and terms of occupancy are not guaranteed and will
 be confirmed at time of reservation. Participating hotels, rates and terms are subject to 
 change without notice. Single or double occupancy. Early check-in, late check-out subject
 to availability. No extra charge for children when they stay in parents' or grandparents' 
 room; total room occupancy subject to local fire safety regulations and other applicable 
 laws or regulations. Rates vary by season, do not include any other fees or charges, 
 including without limitation state or local taxes or gratuities and are subject to change
 without notice. Advance booking required. Advance deposit may be required. Offer cannot be
 combined with any other special discounts, coupons, certificates, special rates, promotional
 offers, award stays, or meeting/group stays. Hilton reserves the right to cancel any Hilton
 Value Rate at any time without notice. Hilton is not responsible for the terms of other 
 offers in the program, or for any electronic, computer, telephone, security, virus or any 
 other problem or damage related to use of the program or its offers. 
 
 
 For reservations call 1-800-221-2000 (domestic) or 1-800-892-4141 (international) 
 or call your travel agent and ask for TWA's special Internet fares. 
 
 
 
 
 				
 
 
 		
 					
 
 
 
 






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: eureka@eureka.abc-web.com
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 03:59:26 -0800 (PST)
To: All Eureka! Subscribers: ;
Subject: Eureka! Wed Jan 14 '98
Message-ID: <19980114083127.9568.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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============================================================
TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS NEWSLETTER,  USE THE REPLY FUNCTION
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============================================================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: kouqi32@mci.net
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 22:30:05 -0800 (PST)
To: kouqi32@mci.net
Subject: StockAlert News: UNFC expects increase of $50M in assets
Message-ID: <199801143911CAA36883@post.com.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain






REMINGTON-HALL CAPITALIZES ON RESURGENT REAL ESTATE MARKET 
 Company expects to acquire $50 million in assets by mid-1998

  
DALLAS -- UNFC ), a diversified real estate investment firm formerly known as Universal Fuels Company, is quietly acquiring over $50 million in previously undervalued, undercapitalized or mismanaged commercial properties and
 making this new major player one of the best moderate-risk real estate investments in 1998.  
 
Founded in 1975 as Universal Fuels, the company provided uranium to the world as an alternative fuel, but as uranium became less used as a nuclear fuel source than other more economical and useful materials, Universal Fuels' stock declined almost to extinction over several years.  Less than a year ago the stock price was less than 1˘.
 
Four months ago officials from Camden-Townwest, a privately held real estate investment firm, approached Universal Fuels former management about converting Universal Fuels into a publicly traded real estate conglomerate.  Camden-Townwest, founded in 1994, grew from $19,000 in cash to $3 million in assets in three years without seeking any outside capital.  Since the change in management and corporate mission last October,  U
NFC  has seen its stock value increase by over 800%.   
 
Remington-Hall  is now making its move to increase assets at a tremendous rate.  By mid-year management expects to acquire in excess of $50 Million in office buildings and multi-family properties at a significant discount to their market value. "We have been referred to as 'Cat Burglars of Real Estate'," said Douglas Fonteno, president & chief executive officer.   "And that's a title we hope to keep."
 
Larry Hood ,formerly Chief Operating Officer of Pizza Inn and Chief Financial Officer of Reliance Mortgage Company, is Remington-Hall's Chief Financial Offi
cer, giving the new company immediate and substantial financial integrity.  Wade Hyde, previously public relations and investor relations executive for Blockbuster Video and FoxMeyer Corporation, is Vice President of Marketing & Public Relations. 
 
Currently Remington-Hall is seeking to be listed on the Pacific Stock Exchange and the Nasdaq National Market.  The company anticipates announcing over $10 million in newly acquired assets by the end of January.
  
Name:		     Remington-Hall Capital Corporation ( formerly Universal Fuels)
Symbol:	     Nasdaq: UNFC 
Mission:	     To aggressively acquire steeply undervalued real estate properties
                       due to previous mismanagement or undercapitalization.   
Management: Senior executives with diverse experiences, including: 
                       Fortune 500 corporations, leading stock brokerage firms, 
                       real estate companies and national marketing.  
Goals:	           To increase assets to $10M by January 98 and $50M by mid-year  
Address:	     1401 Elm St., Ste. 1818, Dallas, TX  75202-2925
Phone:	           (214) 749-4600
FAX:		     (214) 749-4608
Internet:	    www.remington-hall.com  
E-Mail:	          InvestorRelations@remington-hall    ll.com
Quote             Yahoo! Remington-Hall  

  




MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


	ATTENTION ALL INTERNET USERS		PRESS RELEASE

BILLION DOLLAR COMPANY ANNOUNCES ENTRY INTO TRILLION DOLLAR TECHNOLOGY
MARKETS

You're obviously technology minded or you wouldn't be reading this right
now!

THE MARKETS

You're probably aware that deregulation of the $215 Billion Dollar
electricity market begins in 1998. Remember what happened when
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An international powerhouse doing in excess of $1.5 Billion annually is
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	Electricity
	Internet Access
	Internet Commerce
	Long-Distance Telephone Service
	International Phone Service
	Cellular Service
	Paging
	Cable and Satellite Television
	Natural Gas
	Home Security Systems

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	Billion Dollar Company, completely debt-free
	Top-rated by Dun & Bradstreet, listed on NYSE
	"One of the 8 fastest growing companies in US history"-Success
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	BEING FIRST IS GREAT--YOU NOW HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO BE BEFORE FIRST





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: PleaseSeeBelow@GreatPagersFor1998.com
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 23:28:05 -0800 (PST)
To: WiseFolks@UwiseFolk.com
Subject: FREE Motorola Pagers!!!
Message-ID: <82315499_7790740>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



*********************************************************************
  - Remove from list information is after this important message -
*********************************************************************
                              *******


FREE MOTOROLA PAGER!!! Keep in touch with family, friends and the 
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******************************************************************
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TO BE REMOVED FROM OUR MAILING LIST, TYPE: Cartmore@ix.netcom.com
in the (TO:) area and (REMOVE) in the subject area of a new E-mail 
and send.
******************************************************************
******************************************************************





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Dr. Zeus" 
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 23:58:24 -0800 (PST)
To: freedom-knights@jetcafe.org
Subject: Chris Lewis's death?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <34BDC364.46C2@alt.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Anonymous wrote:
> 
> I tried sending an anonymous test article to comp.org.cauce via the CRACKER
> remailer.  Sure enough, the Gypsie Jew Zorch forged a cancel for my article:
> 
> >From: scott@zorch.sf-bay.org (Scott Hazen Mueller)
> >Newsgroups: comp.org.cauce
> >Subject: cancelled posting
> >Date: 30 Dec 1997 13:25:04 -0500
> >Organization: At Home; Salida, CA
> >Lines: 26
> >Sender: johnl@iecc.com
> >Approved: comp.org.cauce@abuse.net
> >Message-ID: 
> >Reply-To: scott@zorch.sf-bay.org
> >NNTP-Posting-Host: ivan.iecc.com
> >X-submission-address: comp-org-cauce@abuse.net
> >X-Authentication-Warning: orbit.hooked.net: Uzorch set sender to news@zorch.sf-bay.org using -f
> >X-Nntp-Posting-Host: localhost.sf-bay.org
> >Path: ...!iecc.com!iecc.com!not-for-mail
> >
> >I have issued a cancel for the following posting to comp.org.cauce.  Death
> >threats are serious business.
> >
> >Xref: zorch comp.org.cauce:378
> >Path: zorch!news.well.com!noos.hooked.net!204.156.128.20.MISMATCH!news1.best.com
> >!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-sea-19.sprintlink.net!news-i
> >n-west.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!205.238.207.65!iecc.com!iecc.co
> >m!not-for-mail
> >From: Anonymous 
> >Newsgroups: comp.org.cauce
> >Subject: CAUCE offers a $50,000 (canadian) reward for killing Chris Lewis, his w
> >ife, and the kid
> >Date: 30 Dec 1997 10:58:17 -0500
> >Organization: I.E.C.C., Trumansburg NY
> >Lines: 14
> >Sender: johnl@iecc.com
> >Approved: comp.org.cauce@abuse.net
> >Message-ID: 
> >NNTP-Posting-Host: ivan.iecc.com
> >X-submission-address: comp-org-cauce@abuse.net
> >Comments: This message did not originate from the Sender address above.
> >        It was remailed automatically by anonymizing remailer software.
> >        Please report problems or inappropriate use to the
> >        remailer administrator at .
> 
> My cancelled Usenet article offered a reward for killing the spammer:
> 
> >CAUCE, the enforcement branch of the Internet administration, is dedicated to
> >exterminating all SPAMMERS by any means necessary. CAUCE wants Chris Lewis and
> >all other SPAMMERS dead, and will gladly pay the $50,000 (canadian) reward to
> >whomever KILLS Chris Lewis and his family, who reside in a suburb of Ottawa:
> >

I think we should leave the family out of this, and instead killing
Chris Lewis, just get him fired from Nortel


> >483 Vances Side Road
> >Dunrobin, Ontario K0A 1T0
> >CANADA
> >Home telephone: (613) 832-0541,
> >Office telephone: (613) 763-2935
> >
> >After you kill Chris Lewis and his family, please see http://www.cauce.org
> >for information on how to collect your CAUCE reward.
> 
> This is fucking censorship!  I'm putting the notice of the CAUCE reward on my
> web home page at http://www.panix.com/~guy, right next to the pictures of the
> pre-teen kids screwing.  Fuck you, Zorch, you're next after C, P, and G Lewis.
> 
> ---guy

Just6 who is this "guy?"





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: eureka@eureka.abc-web.com
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 02:13:28 -0800 (PST)
To: All Eureka! Subscribers: ;
Subject: Eureka! Thu Jan 15 '98
Message-ID: <19980115082051.29357.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Welcome to Thursday's issue of Eureka!

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Please note that most of these feeds require a Netscape bro-
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osoft's browser does not have all the features of Netscape's
yet.  However, many of the feeds use the RealPlayer and will
work in most browsers.  If you do not have Netscape and want
a free copy click here ... http://www.netscape.com/download/
Max Hardcore ......... http://207.240.169.121/max/start.html

CHAT WITH OTHER READERS
This chat is growing fast, and already there are a number of
regulars  you will meet most days.  It's good to see Eureka!
readers interacting with each other and having a great time!
Adult/Sex Chat .................. http://137.39.63.229/chat/
General/Fun Chat ........ http://137.39.63.229/chat/funchat/

THE BEST PHONE SEX
NEW!!!! LD Call only! - Live Hot Girls!!!!....1-664-410-3912
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EROTIC STORY SITE OF THE DAY
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Every day  we bring you an exclusive  choice pic of a famous
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GAYEUREKA!
The gay  newsletter is now  available.  You can get it here!
Gay Eureka! ........... http://eureka.abc-web.com/gayeureka/

EUREKA! TRANSLATIONS
As well as English you can now choose any of these languages
DEUTSCH ....... http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/deutsch.htm
ESPAŃOL ....... http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/espanol.htm
FRANÇAIS ..... http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/francais.htm
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Pic  8 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?157
Pic  9 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?158
Pic 10 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?159

============================================================
TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS NEWSLETTER,  USE THE REPLY FUNCTION
IN YOUR EMAIL PROGRAM, AND SEND THIS EMAIL RIGHT BACK TO US.
============================================================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 777e42@ia.com.hk (nz)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 07:09:51 -0800 (PST)
To: 777e42@ia.com.hk
Subject: NET-ZINE
Message-ID: <199801163816BAA40525@post.uu.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


                                                                                               NET-ZINE - The following is sent to you as a special offering of the most exciting offers anywhere on the internet. These offers will only be made once and we will not contact you again. If you are not interested or have changed your mind we apologize for any inconvenience.
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------------------------
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-----------------------
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----------------------------
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--------------------------------
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-------------------------------

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-----------------
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=========================

$$$ CLASSIFIED Ads can Load Your Mailbox with CASH $$$- 

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-----------------------------
Did you know that you--
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HAVE A GREAT WEEK !
All Rights Reserved 1998





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "http://www.musicblvd.com/" 
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 01:02:28 -0800 (PST)
To: musicblvd@sparklist.com
Subject: Music Boulevard Storewide Sale
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980115122621.007dbd10@mail.sparknet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Dear Music Boulevard Customer,
 
Happy New Year from Music Boulevard!  Ring in 1998 on the right note,
with new music!  Through January 26th we've lowered prices on every CD,
cassette, video and T-shirt in our catalog of over 200,000 items --
our entire store is on sale!  Search for your most-wanted recordings or
refer to our comprehensive Buyer's Guide (created by Music Boulevard's 
staff of music experts) to find essential albums in every musical genre 
and style, from Surf and Garage Rock to New Orleans Jazz to Reggae to 
20th Century Classical music.  Follow the link below to go to our Buyer's 
Guide...

http://www.musicblvd.com/cgi-bin/tw/1462_0_/mb2/live/mrkt/specials.txt
 

$1 U.S. SHIPPING!
Extra, Extra! Due to enthusiastic customer response, we've extended
our shipping sale! Through the end of January, the shipping charge 
for U.S. orders is just $1 for unlimited items. With our unbeatable 
prices and shipping rates, expanding your music collection in '98 is 
one New Year's resolution you just can't break!
 
EARN FREE CDS!
How many CDs did you buy in '97? Our Frequent Buyer's Club members
earn store credit for a free CD after each tenth item purchased on 
Music Boulevard.  If you haven't already joined the club, don't delay 
- starting earning points towards your first free CD today! 
  
THE VOTES ARE IN...
And the winner is...Music Boulevard! We've been named the official
online store for the 40TH ANNUAL GRAMMY AWARDS!  For the best recordings 
and performances of 1997, look no further than our comprehensive "Guide 
to the Grammy Nominees", including nominees in over 90 categories, audio
clips, cover art, and much more.  All nominated albums -- from outstanding
artists Paula Cole, Babyface, Hanson, and many other top artists -- will 
be sale-priced through the Grammy Awards Ceremony on February 25th.
After the 25th, revisit the Guide for a complete list of the winners and 
special savings on the best of the best! Just follow the URL below...

http://www.musicblvd.com/cgi-bin/tw/1462_0_/mb2/live/mrkt/grammyguide/genera
l.txt


NEW AND NOTEWORTHY
Music Boulevard keeps you informed of the latest and greatest new
music! The stellar soundtrack to 'Great Expectations' is highlighted by 
brand new songs from Tori Amos, Chris Cornell of Soundgarden, and Scott 
Weiland.  Just released -- Ben Folds Five's 'Naked Baby Photos,' a 
collection of 17 of the quirky pop group's best rare, live, and unreleased 
songs.  And at the top of the music charts, the soundtrack to the epic 
romance 'Titanic' features the music of legendary film soundtrack composer 
James Horner as well as the Celine Dion's beautiful performance of the love 
theme "My Heart Will Go On." 
 
GET THEM BEFORE THEY'RE HOT!
Visit Music Boulevard today to pre-order tomorrow's biggest hits! On
January 27th, keyboard virtuoso John Tesh unveils his latest
full-length album of lush, soothing New Age compositions.  Also on 
the 27th, the master of English Jungle techno, Goldie, returns with his 
long-awaited second album, the double-CD 'Saturnzreturn.'  On February 3rd,
Seattle supergroup Pearl Jam makes a comeback with their fifth and finest 
studio album yet, 'Yield,' featuring the hit single "Given To Fly."  Advance 
order these much-awaited new albums today and have them delivered to your 
doorstep on release date!
 
Thanks for shopping Music Boulevard!
 
The Music Boulevard Staff
 
TO UNSUBSCRIBE
To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send an Email to:
remove-musicblvd@sparklist.com
and you will be automatically removed from this list.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: freecalls4u@28399.com
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 06:02:29 -0800 (PST)
To: phasl@header.net.edu
Subject: Talk Is Cheap.....AND Fun!
Message-ID: <563298745123698563666@header.net.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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                  You MUST be 21 years old to participate.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: eureka@eureka.abc-web.com
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 04:52:15 -0800 (PST)
To: All Eureka! Subscribers: ;
Subject: Eureka! Fri Jan 16 '98
Message-ID: <19980116083206.5871.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Welcome to Friday's issue of Eureka!

PLAYGAL
This is truly a breathtaking site. Well-designed and easy to
use with  excellent content.  The tour alone has hotter porn
than many other 'free' sites - go see it now. It's explicit,
comprehensive and top quality.  There are 2,000  video feeds
online, free live fucking with sound, 10,000 erotic stories,
1,000s of top quality pix, adult and arcade games, real ama-
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Playgal .... http://www.playgal.com/playgal/banner_abc1.html

PLEASE VISIT THIS FINE EUREKA! PARTNER SITE
Persian Kitty's Adult Links
http://www.persiankitty.com/pk.html
The #1 most visted adult links site on the Web.  Persian
Kitty's is now in it's 3rd year! Updated twice each day.
Plus the Purrfect Pose and the Desktop Image of the Week!

PLUMPERLAND
Fat chicks with big  hooters  and  pretty faces. Interesting
mix here. Some dressed like police  and bent over showing us
their goods. There are  also  some  links  here to other big
girl websites if you are so  inclined. Big girls need loving
too! ...................... http://www.ioservices.net/plump/

BIGKNOCKERS
It's a tit zone and a  half!  It's udder maddness! The boobs 
are big and the babes look  good.  This is a great site with
hardly no distracting graphics.  Just  a real easy thumbnail
area with lots of free pix.  This  is a must surf for anyone
who love breasts.  I gotta go  I'm getting thirsty for milk!
Bigknockers ....... http://www.bigknockers.com/free/free.htm

TITS OF THE WEEK
OK, this is a paysite, but at the door they have three great
sets of hooters free for  you  to enjoy viewing. These alone
are worth the modem hop. If  you  have seen one you have not 
seen them all. Take a  look  at  her  nipples! Cruise by and
see! ............................... http://www.towview.com/

OLDER BROADS WITH HORNY BODS
Hey, you will be older someday.  Here  is  a chance to get a 
peek at the future. These ladies  have  guts to stand up and
be seen! Some are not too bad.  A  few will scare you out of
your computer  chair  and leave  you running  in the street!
Older Broads ........ http://lisanne.com/obroads/ladies1.htm

FREE STREAMING VIDEO
Please note that most of these feeds require a Netscape bro-
wser in order to successfully view them. Unfortunately Micr-
osoft's browser does not have all the features of Netscape's
yet.  However, many of the feeds use the RealPlayer and will
work in most browsers.  If you do not have Netscape and want
a free copy click here ... http://www.netscape.com/download/
The hardcore channels .. http://www.EroticPleasures.net/xxx/

CHAT WITH OTHER READERS
This chat is growing fast, and already there are a number of
regulars  you will meet most days.  It's good to see Eureka!
readers interacting with each other and having a great time!
Adult/Sex Chat .................. http://137.39.63.229/chat/
General/Fun Chat ........ http://137.39.63.229/chat/funchat/

THE BEST PHONE SEX
NEW!!!! LD Call only! - Live Hot Girls!!!!....1-664-410-3912
LIVE: 1-on-1, 2-on-1, Group, Dateline.........1-800-644-8779
FREE: Live 1-on-1 (international call only)....011-678-77416

AMATEUR SITE OF THE DAY
TAYLOR: Hugz & Hooters is  her  calling  card. Not only does
she have huge tits, but is one of the sweetest girls around.
Her site is chalk full  of pictures, including girl/girl and
three girl  lesbian  pictures.   She  also  posts  true life
erotic stories!
............................ http://amateurindex.com/eureka/

EROTIC STORY SITE OF THE DAY
XXXStories.com: The largest free  erotic  story  site on the
net. Over 400 hot sex stories  on such topics as wife sluts,
virgins, group sex and more...... http://www.xxxstories.com/

DAILY CARTOON ........... http://www.erosinorbit.com/eureka/

ADULT STAR PIC OF THE DAY
Every day  we bring you an exclusive  choice pic of a famous
adult porn star.  And we must tell you - these pix are abso-
luletly brilliant! .... http://www.xxxadultstars.com/eureka/

GAYEUREKA!
The gay  newsletter is now  available.  You can get it here!
Gay Eureka! ........... http://eureka.abc-web.com/gayeureka/

EUREKA! TRANSLATIONS
As well as English you can now choose any of these languages
DEUTSCH ....... http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/deutsch.htm
ESPAŃOL ....... http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/espanol.htm
FRANÇAIS ..... http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/francais.htm
ITALIANO ..... http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/italiano.htm
PORTUGUESE . http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/portuguese.htm

TODAY'S FREE PIX
Pic  1 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?160
Pic  2 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?161
Pic  3 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?162
Pic  4 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?163
Pic  5 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?164
Pic  6 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?165
Pic  7 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?166
Pic  8 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?167
Pic  9 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?168
Pic 10 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?169

============================================================
TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS NEWSLETTER,  USE THE REPLY FUNCTION
IN YOUR EMAIL PROGRAM, AND SEND THIS EMAIL RIGHT BACK TO US.
============================================================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: iNqwx6tuC@vers1esv.com
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 16:07:36 -0800 (PST)
To: dereg@electric33.com
Subject: Deregulation of US Electricity
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


 DEREGULATION OF THE U.S ELECTRIC UTILITY
 INDUSTRY IS CREATING A $215 BILLION FINANCIAL
 OPPORTUNITY FOR YOU!

 Imagine Utility Savings of 20% - 40%!  now imagine 
 being a marketer of those savings and earning a recurring
 monthly  commission on the Utility usage of consumers
 throughout the country...

 <<<<< Call 1-800-358-2754  for 24 hr, 1 min message >>>>>

 __________________________________________________

 Effective Jan '98, Electric Utility Monopolies will be 
 dissolved on a State-by-State basis opening a $215
 "Billion Dollar" industry to free-market competition.

 We need independent "Electric Power Marketers" in 
 all 50 States especially California and the Northeast.
 Build a leveraged, recurring income in as little as
 10-15 hours/week.  full training and support; minimal
 start-up; lucrative.

 New Ground- Floor Opportunity with established 
 international networking giant.  Capitalize now on
 projected $10 Billion in annual revenue.

 People made millions with deregulation of the
 Telecommunications Industry.  The Electric Utility
 Industry will be three times the opportunity.

 <<< Call 1-800-358-2754  for 24 hr, 1 min message >>>

 (Please do not reply via e-mail.  Call our Voicemail and
 leave your name, telephone number and the best time 
 to call and we will contact you as soon as possible)

 To be removed, call the above number and SPELL your
 email address stating you would like to be removed from
 future mailings.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: gDNW90rE6@m1Im.net
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 17:09:27 -0800 (PST)
To: dereg@electric33.com
Subject: Deregulation of US Electricity
Message-ID: <1M17JFVNVdpMx5>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


 DEREGULATION OF THE U.S ELECTRIC UTILITY
 INDUSTRY IS CREATING A $215 BILLION FINANCIAL
 OPPORTUNITY FOR YOU!

 Imagine Utility Savings of 20% - 40%!  now imagine 
 being a marketer of those savings and earning a recurring
 monthly  commission on the Utility usage of consumers
 throughout the country...

 <<<<< Call 1-800-358-2754  for 24 hr, 1 min message >>>>>

 __________________________________________________

 Effective Jan '98, Electric Utility Monopolies will be 
 dissolved on a State-by-State basis opening a $215
 "Billion Dollar" industry to free-market competition.

 We need independent "Electric Power Marketers" in 
 all 50 States especially California and the Northeast.
 Build a leveraged, recurring income in as little as
 10-15 hours/week.  full training and support; minimal
 start-up; lucrative.

 New Ground- Floor Opportunity with established 
 international networking giant.  Capitalize now on
 projected $10 Billion in annual revenue.

 People made millions with deregulation of the
 Telecommunications Industry.  The Electric Utility
 Industry will be three times the opportunity.

 <<< Call 1-800-358-2754  for 24 hr, 1 min message >>>

 (Please do not reply via e-mail.  Call our Voicemail and
 leave your name, telephone number and the best time 
 to call and we will contact you as soon as possible)

 To be removed, call the above number and SPELL your
 email address stating you would like to be removed from
 future mailings.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: softdeals@hotmail.com
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 18:40:47 -0800 (PST)
To: Offers@internet.net
Subject: Resolve to get Organized for 1998...Free Software!
Message-ID: <8354786523748>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


No more excuses...with Contact-Pro for Windows organizing your business, club or church contacts is quick, easy and effective...and, for a limited time only, it's FREE!

If you're at all like me, you've made the same resolution year after year:  This year I am going to organize my contact information so that I can...serve my clients better...save an enormous amount of time...make more money faster...etc.

But, like me (until I found Contact-Pro), year after year resolve failed in the face of complex, expensive, ineffective, time-
wasting software that either didn't do the job, was too costly to be realistic or was powerful but impossible to learn to use.

But, then, a friend introduced me to Contact-Pro and I finally got my business contacts organized quickly and almost instantaneously.  Now I keep track of all my addresses, phone numbers, relationship histories, and all my communications in one integrated, easy-to-use application.  I even use the merge mail and merge fax capability to send customized messages to prospects and customers. My business has never been better. Now, I'd like you to try Contact-Pro for your contact management needs.

It's probably the best contact manager money can buy. PC Magazine said it's "... so powerful it could run your business..." but they also said that "... its greatest strength is the ease with which you can manipulate data."

Contact-Pro is software for everyone from the home user to business networks.  Use it to organize your business, club, church or organizational contacts or members at any level to save time, enhance your client/customer satisfaction levels and increase profits, contributions, etc.

If it's so good, why is it free?

Because the developer needs users to try the product and spread the word to others who might be interested. No tricks, just really great software and a great deal!

You get the single-user Contact-Pro license absolutely free -- not a cut-down or restricted copy -- the full product! You pay only $14.95 to cover disks or CD, printed User Guide, shipping/handling and 30 days technical support via e-mail.

Simply go to our web site

http://www.contact-pro.com

for further information or to order your copy.

***********************************************************************
If you prefer not to receive special e-mail offers, simply click on the following link to get your e-mail address permanently removed from our list:

relatedmi@prodigy.net

***********************************************************************

Contact-Pro is the solution for you regardless of your company,club or personal requirements and this special offer makes it a must for churches and non-profit organizations anxious to keep costs under control.

Contact-Pro can read data directly from other database products like ACT!, Goldmine, TeleMagic and virtually all PIMs and personal organizers so you will never have to re-enter data. And, for a limited time only, it's FREE!...for more information or to order, go to the web site:

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Relate Technologies, Inc. (a Delaware corporation, company profile is on the web site) is giving this exceptional product away as a means to build its user base and generate interest in multi-user, network versions of Contact-Pro. You will receive an unrestricted, fully registered, single-user version of Contact-Pro (Windows 3.1, 95 or NT). You will pay only $14.95 to cover the costs of diskettes or CD-ROM, printed User Guide and 30 day technical support via e-
mail. 

Our order system is a secure electronic transaction environment for your protection. Should you, despite the secure environment, prefer to order directly or use a check, you will find the necessary information to phone, fax or mail your order to Relate Technologies, Inc. on the web site.

Contact-Pro is available for single-users, networked groups and remote users. Order now and join thousands of current users who have "resolved to do it better" with their FREE copy of Contact-Pro.
Click here to go to http://www.contact-pro.com for information or to order your copy.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: GoToWebPage@GoodNews-1998.net
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 00:56:27 -0800 (PST)
To: SmartFolk@UwiseFolk.com
Subject: Confessions
Message-ID: <53358097_35361056>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



*********************************************************************
  - Remove from list information is after this important message -
*********************************************************************
                              *******

One person's journey from insurance adjuster, to crusader for 
equity of access:

http://Ppage.net?Tony.B

******************************************************************
******************************************************************
TO BE REMOVED FROM OUR MAILING LIST, TYPE: Legooo@ix.netcom.com
in the (TO:) area and (REMOVE) in the subject area of a new E-mail 
and send.
******************************************************************
******************************************************************





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: failaqa35@psi.ch
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 14:13:18 -0800 (PST)
To: failaqa35@psi.ch
Subject: StockAlert News: UNFC expects increase of $50M in assets
Message-ID: <199801162788FAA38691@post.co.jp>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



 REMINGTON-HALL CAPITALIZES ON RESURGENT REAL ESTATE MARKET 
Company expects to acquire $50 million in assets by mid-1998

  
DALLAS -- UNFC ), a diversified real estate investment firm formerly known as Universal Fuels Company, is quietly acquiring over $50 million in previously undervalued, undercapitalized or mismanaged commercial properties and making this new major player one of the best moderate-risk real estate investments in 1998.  
 
Founded in 1975 as Universal Fuels, the company provided uranium to the world as an alternative fuel, but as uranium became less used as a nuclear fuel source than other more economical and useful materials, Universal Fuels' stock declined almost to extinction over several years.  The stock price was less than 1˘ last year.
 
Four months ago officials from Camden-Townwest, a privately held real estate investment firm, approached Universal Fuels former management about converting Universal Fuels into a publicly traded real estate conglomerate.  Camden-Townwest, founded in 1994, grew from $19,000 in cash to $3 million in assets in three years without seeking any outside capital.  Since the change in management and corporate mission last October,  UNFC  has seen its stock value increase by over 800%.   
 
Remington-Hall  is now making its move to increase assets at a tremendous rate.  By mid-year management expects to acquire in excess of $50 Million in office buildings and multi-family properties at a significant discount to their market value. "We have been referred to as 'Cat Burglars of Real Estate'," said Douglas Fonteno, president & chief executive officer, "and that's a title we plan to keep."
 
Douglas T Fonteno previously Chairman of Camden-Townwest and formerly with Merrill Lynch, is Remington-Hall's new President & Chief Executive Officer.  Larry Hood,   formerly Chief Operating Officer of Pizza Inn and Chief Financial Officer of Reliance Mortgage Company, is Remington-Hall's Chief Financial Officer, giving the new company immediate and substantial financial integrity.  Wade Hyde, previously public relations and investor relations executive for Blockbuster Video and FoxMeyer Corporation, is Vice President of Marketing & Public Relations. 
 
Currently Remington-Hall is seeking to be listed on the Pacific Stock Exchange and the Nasdaq National Market.  The company anticipates announcing over $10 million in newly acquired assets by the end of January.
 
Name:		    Remington-Hall Capital Corporation  ( formerly Universal Fuels)
Symbol:	     Nasdaq: UNFC 
Mission:	     To aggressively acquire steeply undervalued real estate properties
                       due to previous mismanagement or undercapitalization.   
Management: Senior executives with diverse experiences, including: 
                       Fortune 500 corporations, leading stock brokerage firms, 
                       real estate companies and national marketing.  
Goals:	           To increase assets to $10M by January 98 and $50M by mid-year  
Address:	     1401 Elm St., Ste. 1818, Dallas, TX  75202-2925
Internet:	     www.remington-hall.com 
E-Mail:	           InvestorRelations@remington-hall.com
Quote:            Yahoo! Remington-Hall 

              Except for the historical information contained on the website,
              the matters set forth inthese documents are forward-looking
              statements within the meaning of the "safe harbour" provisions
              of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. These
              forward-looking statements are subject to risk and uncertainties
              that may cause actual results to differ materially. These forward-looking
              statements speak only as of the date hereof and the Company disclaims
              any intent or obligation to update these forward-looking statements.  


<




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: eureka@eureka.abc-web.com
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 01:48:04 -0800 (PST)
To: All Eureka! Subscribers: ;
Subject: Eureka! Sat Jan 17 '98
Message-ID: <19980117082803.3088.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Welcome to Saturday's issue of Eureka!

ULTIMATE HARDCORE
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They are selling videos, but they  include a lot of free pix
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FREE STREAMING VIDEO
Please note that most of these feeds require a Netscape bro-
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work in most browsers.  If you do not have Netscape and want
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Bizarre ....................... http://204.244.215.7/teens2/

CHAT WITH OTHER READERS
This chat is growing fast, and already there are a number of
regulars  you will meet most days.  It's good to see Eureka!
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Adult/Sex Chat .................. http://137.39.63.229/chat/
General/Fun Chat ........ http://137.39.63.229/chat/funchat/

THE BEST PHONE SEX
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AMATEUR SITE OF THE DAY
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The gay  newsletter is now  available.  You can get it here!
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EUREKA! TRANSLATIONS
As well as English you can now choose any of these languages
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ESPAŃOL ....... http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/espanol.htm
FRANÇAIS ..... http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/francais.htm
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PORTUGUESE . http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/portuguese.htm

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Pic  8 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?177
Pic  9 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?178
Pic 10 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?179

============================================================
TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS NEWSLETTER,  USE THE REPLY FUNCTION
IN YOUR EMAIL PROGRAM, AND SEND THIS EMAIL RIGHT BACK TO US.
============================================================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 14:03:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: HOW WILL YOU SURVIVE WHEN YOU LOSE YOUR JOB?
Message-ID: <199801172203.OAA28689@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



HOW WILL YOU SURVIVE WHEN YOU LOSE YOUR JOB?

	*LEARN TO MAKE $1200 WEEKLY!!!

Thousands of harworking people, just like you and me, are 
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Well, just give me 5 minutes of your time, and I will show you 
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You hold in your hands the most POWERFUL and 
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                 YOU CAN HAVE IT ALL!!!!!

    *that new car, your dream home, a special vacation!!

        These are $ money $ in the bank secrets.

      THE INTERNET POPULATION EXPLOSION IS
                                     UNDER  WAY!

More than 50 million people are currently on the Internet with 
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This COMPLETE INTERNET BUSINESS KIT is the 
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		    	ORDER NOW!!
		===========================


WorldNet-Distributors
909 Eagles Landing Pkwy.
Suite 140 P.O. BOX 203
Stockbridge, Ga.  30281   USA

Name___________________________________________
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Address__________________________________________
_____
City___________________ State_________  
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address________________________________________

We can ship via:

 A. Postal Service (snail mail) 3 1/2" floppy disk. or manual.

 B. E-mail (Your order will be dispatched within 24 hours of
     receipt of funds - money order fastest)





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Wombat@aol.com
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 10:49:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Adult Mail................Are you man enough?
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



*****************************You Must 18*********************************

Hi....Tired of all the B******T!

I am a Hot.............Horney.........New Jersey Co-Ed!

	I will sell you my Sweet Panties, 
		
	 	Hot Photo, 

			Hot, Horney Letter. 

You won't be dissapointed. 

$ 20.00, Cash, Check or Money Order, Large S.A.S.E., and 

A note stating you are 18 or older.

Send to:
		Vi  Grant
		Box 2002, Suite 2B,
	      Cherry Hill, NJ 08034

Please hurry, 

I have to get cash up for the Spring Semester, and I am sooo Horney!!

Thanx.......Vi

( My girlfriend and I snuck in to use the campus computer!)


****************************************************************************





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: eureka@eureka.abc-web.com
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 03:22:20 -0800 (PST)
To: All Eureka! Subscribers: ;
Subject: Eureka! Sun Jan 18 '98
Message-ID: <19980118083145.2394.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Welcome to Sunday's issue of Eureka!

INTERTAIN ONLINE
One of the longest-established adult sites on the web,  Int-
ertain Online  has grown and grown to feature more smut than
you could  probably view in a lifetime.  It is simply packed
with 10s of thousands of  photographs,  AVI and  MOV movies,
loads of  live video feeds,  stories and so much more.  Plus
you get to try it totally FREE for a whole week. Go and see!
IOL ...... http://www.intertain-inc.com/?banner_id=BID037000

PLEASE VISIT THIS FINE EUREKA! PARTNER SITE
A Planet Erotic - Hardcore XXX Entertainment 
http://www.planeterotic.com
Over 800 FREE Channels Of Live Sex Shows, Live Teen Strip
Shows And Video Porno Feeds. 60,000+ Hard & Softcore Pics
(10,000 NEW Pics a WEEK!). 100's of Erotic Stories, SeXXX
Chat, Casino, and much more!

FREE TEEN SEX
Quick and dirty, just the way you like it. They only have 11
free pictures but these are  some good looking young ladies!
Pussy spread  brunettes,  shaved  pussy  blondes.  Click the
link. ........... http://209.136.127.65/freepics/teensex.htm 

ADOL-ES-SCENTS
Score! Talk about some young  pussy! This website is loaded.
There are blondes, brunettes and  redheads.  In all sorts of
poses including bent over,  spread  eagle and flashing their
tits.  this images are  not huge but  they load pretty fast.
Adoles ........ http://www.jimsplace.com/jat/teen2/index.htm

TEENPARTY
I guess it's a party, with  36 lovely young ladies baring it
all for you to see.  Tight  and  trim  women showing it all.
There are shower  scenes  and  pictures  from  out in public
places and some great bedroom scenes.  Dig the pic28, in the
mirror! ............ http://www.teenparty.inter.net/main.htm

EASYTEENS
This is a well built website. The images are easy to get at.
Text links list blow  jobs,  group  sex, young teens, asian,
teens, hardcore sex,  nice  breasts,  lesbians, shaved pussy
and more! From those choices  you  go to thumbnailed images.
Pretty cool! ..................... http://www.easyteens.com/

FREE STREAMING VIDEO
Please note that most of these feeds require a Netscape bro-
wser in order to successfully view them. Unfortunately Micr-
osoft's browser does not have all the features of Netscape's
yet.  However, many of the feeds use the RealPlayer and will
work in most browsers.  If you do not have Netscape and want
a free copy click here ... http://www.netscape.com/download/
Anal ........................... http://204.244.215.7/anal2/

CHAT WITH OTHER READERS
This chat is growing fast, and already there are a number of
regulars  you will meet most days.  It's good to see Eureka!
readers interacting with each other and having a great time!
Adult/Sex Chat .................. http://137.39.63.229/chat/
General/Fun Chat ........ http://137.39.63.229/chat/funchat/

THE BEST PHONE SEX
NEW!!!! LD Call only! - Live Hot Girls!!!!....1-664-410-3912
LIVE: 1-on-1, 2-on-1, Group, Dateline.........1-800-644-8779
FREE: Live 1-on-1 (international call only)....011-678-77416

AMATEUR SITE OF THE DAY
ELLEN: With over 40  FREE  pictures,  this  young lady is on
course to become a huge  Internet  hit! Her biography states
that her passion is giving  blow  jobs.  Which leaves us one
question. Where do we sign up?   Visit this chic and see how
crazy she is first hand.
............................ http://amateurindex.com/eureka/

EROTIC STORY SITE OF THE DAY
T-Bone's Sex Club:  T-Bone  gives  you  a  new  selection of
erotic stories illustrated  with  nasty  hardcore pics! Last
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T-Bone and find out! ............... http://www.rawsexx.com/

DAILY CARTOON ........... http://www.erosinorbit.com/eureka/

ADULT STAR PIC OF THE DAY
Every day  we bring you an exclusive  choice pic of a famous
adult porn star.  And we must tell you - these pix are abso-
luletly brilliant! .... http://www.xxxadultstars.com/eureka/

GAYEUREKA!
The gay  newsletter is now  available.  You can get it here!
Gay Eureka! ........... http://eureka.abc-web.com/gayeureka/

EUREKA! TRANSLATIONS
As well as English you can now choose any of these languages
DEUTSCH ....... http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/deutsch.htm
ESPAŃOL ....... http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/espanol.htm
FRANÇAIS ..... http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/francais.htm
ITALIANO ..... http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/italiano.htm
PORTUGUESE . http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/portuguese.htm

TODAY'S FREE PIX
Pic  1 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?180
Pic  2 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?181
Pic  3 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?182
Pic  4 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?183
Pic  5 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?184
Pic  6 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?185
Pic  7 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?186
Pic  8 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?187
Pic  9 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?188
Pic 10 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?189

============================================================
TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS NEWSLETTER,  USE THE REPLY FUNCTION
IN YOUR EMAIL PROGRAM, AND SEND THIS EMAIL RIGHT BACK TO US.
============================================================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: TKettle@juno.com
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 17:03:02 -0800 (PST)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: College Financing
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



To whomever it may concern:

I am trying desperately to raise money for college. I have applied for numerous grants and
loans to no avail. This is my last chance. I will not burden you with the entire explanation
of my shortcomings. A friend of mine bought this e-mailer for me in the hopes that it works.
His plan is this: If I send a request for one dollar to millions of people, knowing that only
about 10% of you will actually read it and maybe 1/10th of those who read it will send me a
dollar, I might get enough to sustain my studies for a few years. It does not make me happy to
request alms, but I truly see no other alternatives.

     Those of you who wish to send me a single dollar may send it to the address listed below.
Nothing else will be sent by me to your account. This is not a mailing list. Those with
questions may reach me at Tkettle@Juno.com. Thank you for your time and patience.

Sincerely,

Thomas Kenneth Wootten
24 Victoria Drive
South Burlington, VT
05403






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Gilmore 
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 21:11:48 -0800 (PST)
To: bernstein-announce
Subject: Unofficial transcript of Bernstein hearing published
Message-ID: <199801190451.UAA07568@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


EFF has published an unofficial transcript of the hearing in front of
three judges at the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco on
December 8.  The hearing discussed whether the export controls on
cryptography are an unconstitutional prior restraint on publication.
See

    http://www.eff.org/pub/Privacy/ITAR_export/Bernstein_case/Legal/

There is no news on the judges' decision from that hearing.

	John Gilmore
	Electronic Frontier Foundation




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: TKettle@juno.com
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 20:51:04 -0800 (PST)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: College Financing
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



To whomever it may concern:

I am trying desperately to raise money for college. I have applied for numerous grants and
loans to no avail. This is my last chance. I will not burden you with the entire explanation
of my shortcomings. A friend of mine bought this e-mailer for me in the hopes that it works.
His plan is this: If I send a request for one dollar to millions of people, knowing that only
about 10% of you will actually read it and maybe 1/10th of those who read it will send me a
dollar, I might get enough to sustain my studies for a few years. It does not make me happy to
request alms, but I truly see no other alternatives.

     Those of you who wish to send me a single dollar may send it to the address listed below.
Nothing else will be sent by me to your account. This is not a mailing list. Those with
questions may reach me at Tkettle@Juno.com. Thank you for your time and patience.

Sincerely,

Thomas Kenneth Wootten
24 Victoria Drive
South Burlington, VT
05403






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ForInformationVisitUs@OurWebSite.Now
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 23:37:10 -0800 (PST)
To: SmartFolks@UwiseFolk.com
Subject: *** OFF-SHORE INVESTMENTS ***
Message-ID: <96812119_29274965>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



*********************************************************************
  - Remove from list information is after this important message -
*********************************************************************
                              *******

*** OFF-SHORE INVESTMENTS ***

Get A Higher Rate of Return on Your Investments
Projects Audited
by
*** Coopers & Lybrand and Price Waterhouse ***

Ever wished you could earn a rate of return on your investments that
have traditionally been enjoyed only by the very wealthy?

Welcome to Cyber Ventures Ltd. - Your gateway to outstanding and private
off-shore investment opportunities.

Cyber Ventures Ltd. is an on-line venture capital and financing company
incorporated under the laws of the Isle of Man.  Its primary function is
to raise equity capital for profitable venture capital projects.

Each project promoted by Cyber Ventures Ltd. complies to established
investment criteria and is fully audited to increase the security of
your investments.

Cyber Ventures Ltd. takes an equity stake in each project right along
with you the investor and is a part of the management team of all 
target investments.

Cyber Ventures Ltd. is designed for the relatively small investor so
investments are as little as $30 and a maximum of $30,000 for any 
single transaction.

Investors profit through: 
   - Project profit share
   - Capital appreciation
   - Interest on capital
   - Referral commission on sales

For more information regarding Cyber Ventures Ltd., its Policies,
Project Selection Criteria, Investment Criteria, Current Projects,
the Investment Structure, Auditors, and how you can participate in
this outstanding and private investment vehicle, you may contact 
us at:

Cyber Ventures Web Site:	http://www.cvltd.com
E-mail: 	Info@cvltd.com
	
Fax-On-Demand:	+1(703) 834-8990 Doc #110 (Please call from a fax)
Direct FAX :	+27(21) 948-3188
Toll Free USA FAX :	+1(888) 218-7034
Message Center:	+1(888) 218-7034
Cyber Venture Orders:	+27(21) 948-3183

******************************************************************
******************************************************************
TO BE REMOVED FROM OUR MAILING LIST, TYPE: Bergston@ix.netcom.com
in the (TO:) area and (REMOVE) in the subject area of a new E-mail 
and send.
******************************************************************
******************************************************************





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 97565462@aol.com
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 02:01:39 -0800 (PST)
To: wealth.seekers@entire.internet
Subject: Fastest & Easiest way to make money
Message-ID: <199801190219.RAA111@mrin60.mail.aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


This is a one time mailing and your address has already been deleted from
our database.
Please take time to read this before you erase it!
I would like to let you in on a good idea...
I  NEVER THOUGHT I'D BE THE ONE TELLING YOU THIS....
I  ACTUALLY READ & ACTED ON A PIECE OF E-MAIL,
AND NOW I'M GOING TO EUROPE FOR THE VACATION!
My name is Jason  ; I'm a 34-year-old father, husband, and full time
office manager.  
As a rule, I delete all unsolicited "junk" e-mail and use my account
primarily for  business.  
I received what I assumed was this same e-mail countless times
and deleted it each time.
About two months ago I received it again and, because of the catchy subject
line, I finally read it. Afterwards, I thought, "OK, I give in, I'm going
to try
this. I can certainly afford to invest $20 and, on the other hand, there is
 nothing wrong with creating a little excess cash." I promptly mailed four
 $5 bills and, after receiving the reports paid a friend of mine a small
fee to 
send out some e-mail advertisements for me.  
After reading the reports, I also learned how easy it is to bulk e-mail for
free!

I was not prepared for the results.  Everyday for the last six weeks, my 
P.O. box has been overflowing with $5 bills; many days the excess fills up 
an extra mail bin and I've had to upgrade to the corporate-size box!  
I am stunned by all the cash  that keeps rolling in!

I promise you, if you follow the directions in this e-mail and be prepared
to
eventually set aside about an hour each day to follow up (and count your
money!), you will make at least as much money as we did.  You don't 
need to be a wiz at the computer, but I'll bet you already are.  
 If you can open an envelope,remove the money, and send an 
e-mail message, then you're on your way to the bank. 
Take the time to read this so you'll understand how easy it is. Believe me,
it
works!

                                                       GO FOR IT NOW!
Sincerely,

Jason

The following is a copy of the e-mail I read:

This is a LEGAL, LOW-COST, MONEY-MAKING PHENOMENON.

PRINT this letter, read the directions, THEN GET STARTED TODAY!

You are about to embark on the most profitable and unique program you may
ever see.  Many times over, it has demonstrated and proven its ability to
generate large amounts of cash.  This program is showing fantastic appeal
 with a huge and ever-growing on-line population desirous of additional
income.

This is a legitimate, LEGAL, money-making opportunity.  It does not require
you to come in contact with people, do any hard work, and best of all, you
never
have to leave the house, except to get the mail and go to the bank!

This truly is that lucky break you've been waiting for!  Simply follow the
easy 
instructions in this letter, and your financial dreams will come true! When
followed correctly, this electronic, multi-level marketing program works
perfectly... 100% OF THE TIME!

Thousands of people have used this program to:

    -  Raise capital to start their own business
    -  Pay off debts
    -  Buy homes, cars, etc.,
    -  Even retire!

This is your chance, so read on and get started today!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------
OVERVIEW OF THIS EXTRAORDINARY 
ELECTRONIC MULTI-LEVEL MARKETING PROGRAM
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------

Basically, this is what we do:

We send thousands of people a product for $5.00 that costs next to nothing
to produce and e-mail. As with all multi-level businesses, we build our
business by recruiting new partners and selling our products.  Every state
 in the U.S.allows you to recruit new multi- level business online (via
your computer).

The products in this program are a series of four business and financial
reports costing $5.00 each.  Each order you receive via "snail mail" will
include:

  * $5.00 cash
  * The name and number of the report they are ordering
  * The e-mail address where you will e-mail them the report they
     ordered.

To fill each order, you simply e-mail the product to the buyer.  THAT'S IT!
 The $5.00 is yours!  This is the EASIEST electronic multi-level marketing
business anywhere! 

FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS TO THE LETTER AND
BE PREPARED TO REAP THE STAGGERING BENEFITS!

******* I  N  S  T  R  U  C  T  I  O  N  S *******

This is what you MUST do:

1. Order all 4 reports shown on the list below (you can't sell them if you
don't order 
them).

     *  For each report, send $5.00 CASH, the NAME & NUMBER OF THE
        REPORT YOU ARE ORDERING, YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS, and  YOUR 
NAME & RETURN ADDRESS (in case of a problem) to the person  whose name 
appears on the list next to the report. MAKE  SURE YOUR RETURN ADDRESS IS 
ON YOUR ENVELOPE IN CASE OF ANY MAIL PROBLEMS!

     *  When you place your order, make sure you order each of the
        four reports.  You will need all four reports so that you can save
        them on your computer and resell them.

     *  Within a few days you will receive, via e-mail, each of the four
        reports. Save them on your computer so they will be accessible
        for you to send to the 1,000's of people who will order them
        from you.

2.  IMPORTANT-- DO NOT alter the names of the people who are listed
     next to each report, or their sequence on the list, in any way other
     than is instructed below in steps "a" through "f" or you will lose
     out on the majority of your profits.  Once you  understand the way
     this works, you'll also see how it doesn't work if you change it.
     Remember, this method has been tested, and if you alter it, it will
     not work. ( I talked to a friend last month who has also done this
     program.  He said he had tried "playing" with it to change the
     results.  Bad idea.... he never got as much money as he did with
     the un-altered version.  Remember, it's a proven method!

    a.  Look below for the listing of available reports.

    b.  After you've ordered the four reports, take this advertisement and 
         remove the name and address under REPORT #4. This person has 
         made it through the cycle and is no doubt counting their 50 grand!

    c.  Move the name and address under REPORT #3 down to  REPORT #4.  

    d.  Move the name and address under REPORT #2 down to REPORT #3.

    e.  Move the name and address under REPORT #1 down to REPORT #2.

    f.  Insert your name/address in the REPORT #1 position.

Please make sure you copy every name and address ACCURATELY!

3.  Take this entire letter, including the modified list of names, and
     save it to your computer.  Make NO changes to the instruction
     portion of this letter.

4.  Now you're ready to start an advertising campaign on the
     INTERNET!  Advertising on the 'Net is very, very inexpensive,
     and there are HUNDREDS of FREE places to advertise. Another
     avenue which you could use for advertising is e-mail lists.  
     You can buy these lists for under $20/2,000 addresses or you
     can pay someone a minimal charge to take care of it for you. 
     BE SURE TO START YOUR AD CAMPAIGN IMMEDIATELY!

5.  For every $5.00 you receive, all you must do is e-mail them the
     report they ordered.  THAT'S IT!  ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY
     SERVICE ON ALL ORDERS!  This will guarantee that the e-mail THEY
     send out, with YOUR name and address on it, will be prompt
     because they can't advertise until they receive the report!

------------------------------------------
AVAILABLE REPORTS
------------------------------------------

*** Order Each REPORT by NUMBER and NAME ***

Notes:

-  ALWAYS SEND $5 CASH (U.S. CURRENCY) FOR EACH REPORT
   CHECKS NOT ACCEPTED
-  ALWAYS SEND YOUR ORDER VIA FIRST CLASS  MAIL 
-  Make sure the cash is concealed by wrapping it in at least two
   sheets of paper  
-  On one of those sheets of paper, include: (a) the number & name
   of the report you are ordering, (b) your e-mail address, and
   (c) your name & postal address.

PLACE YOUR ORDER FOR THESE REPORTS NOW:
______________________________________________________________

REPORT #1 "HOW TO MAKE $250,000 THROUGH MULTI-LEVEL SALES" 

     ORDER REPORT #1 FROM:  

 Jason  Baek
            15507 S. Normandie Ave. # 167.
            Gardena, Ca 90247-4028
______________________________________________________________

REPORT #2 "MAJOR CORPORATIONS AND MULTI-LEVEL SALES"

      ORDER REPORT #2 FROM:

 Brain
            150 Main St N # 74075
            Brampton, Ont., Canada
            L6V 4J7

______________________________________________________________

REPORT #3 "SOURCES FOR THE BEST MAILING LISTS"

      ORDER REPORT #3 FROM:

 AMF Investments
            2319 South Kirkwood # 144
            Houston, TX 77077

______________________________________________________________

REPORT #4 "EVALUATING MULTI-LEVEL SALES PLANS"

      ORDER REPORT #4 FROM:

            Fusion Marketing Ltd.
            8895 Towne Centre Drive
            Suite 105-303A
            La Jolla, Ca 92122-5542
______________________________________________________________

HERE'S HOW THIS AMAZING PLAN WILL MAKE YOU $MONEY$

Let's say you decide to start small just to see how well it works. Assume
your goal is to get 10 people to participate on your first level. (Placing
a lot of
FREE ads on the internet will EASILY get a larger response.) 
Also assume that everyone else in 
YOUR ORGANIZATION gets ONLY 10 downline members.  Follow this example to 
achieve the STAGGERING results below.

1st level--your 10 members with
$5............................................$50
2nd level--10 members from those 10 ($5 x 100).....................$500
3rd level--10 members from those 100 ($5 x 1,000)............$5,000
4th level--10 members from those 1,000 ($5 x 10,000)...$50,000
                      THIS TOTALS        ----------->$55,550

Remember friends, this assumes that the people who participate only recruit
10 
people each.  Think for a moment what would happen if they got 20 people to

participate!  Most people get 100's of participants! THINK ABOUT IT!

Your cost to participate in this is practically nothing (surely you can
afford $20). You 
obviously already have an Internet connection and e-mail is FREE! 

REPORT#3 shows you the most productive methods for bulk e-mailing and 
purchasing e-mail lists.  Some list & bulk e-mail vendors even work on
trade!

About 50,000 new people get online every month!

******* TIPS FOR SUCCESS *******

 *  TREAT THIS AS YOUR BUSINESS!  Be prompt, professional, and
     follow the directions accurately.

 *  Send for the four reports IMMEDIATELY so you will have them
    when the orders start coming in because:

        When you receive a $5 order, you MUST send out the requested
        product/report to comply with the U.S. Postal & Lottery Laws, Title
        18,Sections 1302 and 1341 or Title 18,  Section 3005 in the U.S.
Code,
        also Code of Federal Regs. vol. 16, Sections 255 and 436, which
state 
        that "a product or service must be exchanged for money received."

 *  ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON THE ORDERS YOU RECEIVE.

 *  Be patient and persistent with this program. If you follow the 
    instructions exactly, your results WILL be SUCCESSFUL!

 *  ABOVE ALL, HAVE FAITH IN YOURSELF AND KNOW YOU WILL
    SUCCEED!


******* YOUR SUCCESS GUIDELINES *******

Follow these guidelines to guarantee your success:

If you don't receive 10 to 20 orders for REPORT #1 within two weeks,
continue 
advertising until you do.  Then, a couple of weeks later you should receive
at least 
100 orders for REPORT #2.  If you don't, continue advertising until you do.

Once you have received 100 or more orders for REPORT #2, YOU CAN RELAX, 
because the system is already working for you, and the cash will continue
to roll in!

THIS IS IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER:

Every time your name is moved down on the list, you are placed in front of
a 
DIFFERENT report.  You can KEEP TRACK of your PROGRESS by watching 
which report people are ordering from you.  If you want to generate more
income, 
send another batch of e-mails and start the whole process again!  There is
no limit 
to the income you will generate from this business!


******* T  E  S  T  I  M  O  N  I  A  L  S *******

     This program does work, but you must follow it EXACTLY!  Especially
the rule of 
not trying to place your name in a different position, it won't work and
you'll lose a lot 
of potential income.  I'm living proof that it works.  It really is a great
opportunity to 
make relatively easy money, with little cost to you.  If you do choose to
participate, 
follow the program exactly, and you'll be on your way to financial
security. 
          Sean McLaughlin, Jackson, MS

     My name is Frank. My wife, Doris, and I live in Bel-Air, MD. I am a
cost accountant 
with a major U.S. Corporation and I make pretty good money. When I received
the 
program I grumbled to Doris about receiving "junk mail." I made fun of the
whole 
thing, spouting my knowledge of the population and percentages involved.  I

"knew" it wouldn't work. Doris totally ignored my supposed intelligence and
jumped 
in with both feet. I made merciless fun of her, and was ready to lay the
old "I told you 
so" on her when the thing didn't work... well, the laugh was on me!  Within
two weeks 
she had received over 50 responses. Within 45 days she had received over 
$147,200 in $5 bills! I was shocked!  I was sure that I had it all figured
and that it 
wouldn't work.  I AM a believer now. I have joined Doris in her "hobby."  
I did have 
seven more years until retirement, but I think of the "rat race" and it's
not for me. We 
owe it all to MLM.
           Frank T., Bel-Air, MD

    I just want to pass along my best wishes and encouragement to you.  Any
doubts 
you have will vanish when your first orders come in. I even checked with
the U.S. 
Post Office to verify that the plan was legal. It definitely is! IT
WORKS!!!
           Paul Johnson, Raleigh, NC

    The main reason for this letter is to convince you that this system is
honest, lawful, 
extremely profitable, and is a way to get a large amount of money in a
short time. I 
was approached several times before I checked this out. I joined just to
see what 
one could expect in return for the minimal effort and money required.  To
my 
astonishment, I received $36,470.00 in the first 14 weeks, with money still
coming in.
           Sincerely yours, Phillip A. Brown, Esq.

    Not being the gambling type, it took me several weeks to make up my
mind to 
participate in this plan. But conservative that I am, I decided that the
initial 
investment was so little that there was just no way that I wouldn't get
enough orders 
to at least get my money back. Boy, was I surprised when I found my
medium-size 
post office box crammed with orders!  For awhile, it got so overloaded that
I had to 
start picking up my mail at the window. I'll make more money this year than
any 10 
years of my life before. The nice thing about this deal is that it doesn't
matter where 
in the U.S. the people live. There simply isn't a better investment with a
faster return.
         Mary Rockland, Lansing, MI

    I had received this program before. I deleted it, but later I wondered
if I shouldn't 
have given it a try. Of course, I had no idea who to contact to get another
copy, so I 
had to wait until I was e-mailed another program...11 months passed then it
came...I 
didn't delete this one!...I made more than $41,000 on the first try!!
          D. Wilburn, Muncie, IN

     This is my third time to participate in this plan. We have quit our
jobs, and will 
soon buy a home on the beach and live off the interest on our money.  The
only 
way on earth that this plan will work for you is if you do it. For your
sake, and for your 
family's sake don't pass up this golden opportunity.  Good luck and happy 
spending!
           Charles Fairchild, Spokane, WA


ORDER YOUR REPORTS TODAY AND
GET STARTED ON YOUR ROAD TO 
GETTING EXTRA CASH DAILY!

NOW  IS THE TIME FOR YOUR TURN

DECISIVE ACTION YIELDS
POWERFUL RESULTS





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Important.News@hotmail.com
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 12:05:05 -0800 (PST)
To: Important.News@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Hi  :-)
Message-ID: <199801182005.GAA32490@startide.odyssey.com.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




"I finally found the secrets I've been looking for.  Your manual  
tells all and has given me the tools I need to succeed, finally a 
genuine Internet insider tells all!  If you're doing business on the 
web or have ever wanted to, this is a must have.  You're the best,
I'm making your manual into my Internet Bible! Thanks a million!"

Best Regards,
(satisfied customer) Florida

WOW!, What a value your program is! Just the secrets on
email was worth the price alone, not to mention all the other
valuable things you included. I have already put up some ads
and I eagerly anticipate positive results.

Tom Hatcher - Minnesota


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello Internet friend,

What I am going to share with you may well be, for many of you, 
THE opportunity to start a unique, very successful business or take an 
EXISTING one to new untouched heights, by taking advantage of some 
breakthrough trends that are making "marketing history!"  You will soon
discover the art of . . . 

"How to Really Make Money on the Information Superhighway!"

Some of you may already have purchased some "electronic
marketing course" or tried to market some product online.
Maybe you even made a sizeable profit! Whatever the case may
be; No matter how successful you are right now, you can
profit tremendously from what we are about to tell you!

FACT:  ANYONE WHO HAS THE DRIVE TO SUCCEED CAN ACTUALLY MAKE A SIZABLE PROFIT ON THE INTERNET.

FACT:  NOT MANY PEOPLE ARE WILLING TO TAKE THE TIME TO ACTUALLY DO IT.

Why would people want to pass up this extremely valuable money making opportunity?

Because learning is the key to succeeding online.  Marketing on the Internet 
requires a wealth of  knowledge.  To learn everything you need to know 
about Marketing on the Internet takes more time than any human being 
can spare.  The small amount of Internet marketers actually making a 
sizable profit know this all too well. 

Now think about this...

WHAT IF? I could provide YOU with an incredible Marketing Package 
that encompasses all the "How To" information you need to be a success 
on the Internet.  This phenomenal package includes DETAILED Internet 
SECRETS (we don't hold anything back, its all here folks!!), which explains 
in detail how to Profit from the Internet Explosion.  Whether you have a 
business of your own or you want to start one.  It's filled with over 45 packed 
pages revealing the secrets about electronic marketing so many other online 
marketers DON'T want you to know.

I thought that might interest YOU.

Let me explain.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
 
Right now there are over sixty million people surfing the Internet.  By
the year 2000, that figure is expected to more than double. With so many 
people using the Internet, smart "net"repreneur's are taking advantage 
of what this new (in terms of true commercial application) and exciting 
medium has to offer.

The Internet presents one of the best ways to make money that has 
ever been introduced. On any given day you have the opportunity to 
reach more people than most cities have population wise. This is the 
reason so many businesses are scrambling to make their presence
known on the Internet. 

Being "online" offers a person the ability to reach multitudes of people 
from all over the world.  It also offers, to those who know how, THE 
ABILITY TO MAKE EXCELLENT MONEY. And we do mean 
excellent money!!!

CONSIDER THIS POSSIBILITY: You wake up in the morning and 
you put on a pot of coffee. As you sip on your cup of hot "brew" you 
saunter over and turn your computer on. Then, as your monitor glows 
from dim to bright, you find that you have inquiries from all sorts of 
people requesting what you have to offer. Later, after you have 
finished reading your inquiries, you stroll out to your mailbox. You 
find it is filled with letters from people from all across the world! 
What's even better though, is that the letters are FILLED WITH 
MONEY; cash, checks, and money orders. Then, after tallying 
up the totals, you find that you have made anywhere between  
$200 to $1,000 and it isn't even one o'clock in the afternoon. 
 
Think of it: NO boss, NO traffic, and NO annoying Co-workers. 
Wouldn't it feel great to wake up in the morning knowing you 
are going to be making excellent money but don't have to leave 
your house to do it!?!  Wouldn't your life be far less complicated?

The truth is, you can be one of those who become financially
independent via the Internet. AND THE BEST PART IS...IT 
DOESN'T REQUIRE A LOT OF MONEY!!

What it does require is the knowledge of how, what, and where 
to do it. That is where we can help. We provide you with 
the knowledge of how to begin earning substantial income from 
your computer via the "information superhighway".   

We can remember how overwhelming the Internet seemed when we
were first introduced to it.  We realized the marketing and profit 
potential the Internet holds, but really had no idea how to pursue it. 
In our thirst for answers and knowledge, we purchased everything 
we could find that had information on the How, What, and Where. 
We spent thousands of dollars, but we now know what works and
what doesn't.  No where, in all of our searching, could we find a 
complete packet of information for all of our questions.  That is why 
we decided to write this report.  We have compiled every proven 
method and secrets that we have learned along the way into one 
complete, easy to understand report.

This PROVEN REPORT makes believers of skeptics!  

Sound too good to be true?  That's what others have said.  That is, 
until they received their reports and saw for themselves just how easy
it is to make money on the net!


Hi NI,

I received your report and free bonuses last Saturday and wanted to
congratulate you on a job well done. I read through your report "How 
To Profit From The Internet" and I'm very impressed.  I have bought 
other books and manuals about  Online Marketing, Direct Marketing, 
E-mail, Mail Order, etc. Yours is the only one that explains the
subject  in an easy to understand language.  I finally found the 
secrets I've been looking for. 

Once again, Great Job!

Sincerely,
John Strand - Satisfied Customer



My father has always told me, "remember, Michele, there is no free 
lunch in life. You get out of life what you put into it."  Through trial 
and error and a somewhat slow frustrating start, I purchased your 
report and finally figured out how to start a very profitable business
from my home. Your report is great, you give the average person 
the tools and secrets to succeed.  I know my dad is very proud of 
me now.

I can't thank you enough =)

Michele B from Oregon


Good Morning,

I hope this finds you well.  I received your program yesterday after-
noon and read it cover to cover.  You have put together a very 
valuable resource indeed.  I have finally found the program that 
tells all!  Your program has given me the tools I need to succeed.  
Your program could truly end up being the best $39.95 I ever spent!

Your the best, I'm making your manual into my internet Bible!!  
Thanks a million!

Best Regards,
Mary Wecker


This is a wonderful opportunity, we urge you to take advantage of it. 
You won't find too many people that will give away ALL of their
secrets!!  The majority of the rich people today have copied what  
someone else is or has been doing.  That is what we are offering 
you now--a chance to copy our success!!  It is very easy and we 
ARE for REAL!

Here's a little more incentive to check this out...

~IF YOU ORDER WITHIN 3 DAYS~

We will send you:

 **** FREE $400 Bulk e-mail Software ****
 **** FREE $200 Check by phone, fax, E-mail Software ****
 **** FREE $10 Calling Card ****
 
----PLUS----

We will send you a list of over 100 major search engines ready to
surf on the Internet or to place a free link to your web page.   Also, 
you will receive a list of  98 of the best inexpensive newspapers to 
advertise in (U.S. orders only).  The list is complete with papers name, 
city, phone number, circulation and frequency  (Daily or Weekly).  

We will also include five free BONUS reports that include these topics:
· How to Protect your PC from Viruses
· How to get 300+ Quality Prospect to E-mail you Weekly
· Tips and Secrets to Advertising with the major Online Services
· What's wrong with the World Wide Web 
· Tax Advantages for the Home Business Owner.  
You will find that these five reports by themselves are worth 
thousands of dollars to you. These bonuses alone are worth several 
times the cost of the report.

We will also give you a secret list of over 1500 of the best Web sites 
where you can place a FREE advertisement.  This is a list we use 
every day to run our business and we are giving it to you!  Imagine 
what a great offering we are giving you for FREE! 

And we're not through, if you order RIGHT NOW,  we will give you 
15 FREE "How to Reports" that you are free to market and sell on the 
Internet or through mail order for $15-30 each.  They are 45-60 
informational packed pages each.  A great way to start your own 
Net based business!  The topics are;

            1)   Earn Extra Dollars with a Home Based Answering Machine 
            2)   How to Buy a Car with Bad Credit 
            3)   How to Make Thousands of Dollars Winning Contests 
            4)   U.S. Government Auction Sales 
            5)   An Insider's Guide to Finding and Obtaining Grant Money 
            6)   Home Based Business for Fun and Profit 
            7)   How to Get a Job Fast 
            8)   How to Make Money Without Leaving Your House 
            9)   How to Turn the Hobby of Photography into Thousands 
           10)   Making Money at Garage Sales, Swap Meets, and Flea Markets 
           11)   How to Get Paid for Watching TV 
           12)   Getting Your Start in Theater, Television, and Movies 
           13)   Wills or Trusts?  The Case for Living Trusts 
           14)   How To Find Work with the Federal Government 
           15)   How to Write Almost Anything and Get Paid for it!

Are we nuts?

No, it just shows how confident we are that you'll be delighted with 
the information you'll have...just like the others who are already using 
the information and making money.  You will be surprised how quickly 
you can be earning money on the Internet!
 
So you are probably thinking to yourself, this is wonderful, but how much?  
$149.95,  $99.95 maybe even  $79.95?  You may have seen other companies 
marketing "How To" information on the Internet and charging these prices. 
People are actually buying these packages at these prices.  Why?  People 
want to know how to market a product or service the "Right" way on the 
Internet.  "How to Profit from the Internet" could easily sell for any of the 
above prices.  However, we feel that we would rather help those who 
may not have the ability to pay such a price in order to be successful.  
That is why we are offering "How to Profit from the Internet" for the 
unbelievable low price of $39.95.

That's right, that was not a typo...$39.95.  

Still skeptical???  Lets put that to rest right now.  We will make this 
completely risk free for you.  If you are not 100% satisfied with the
information you receive, and believe that you cannot use it to start a
successful business or increase your current business profits, return it
within 10 days and we will refund your money.  No questions asked!!  
(Because this information is very easy to copy, the guarantee is only 
available on Disk Orders).

I have sold this package at much higher prices in the recent past and will be
forced to raise my prices in the very near future. One of the things
you will learn in my course is to constantly test your market.  I am
currently in the price testing phase of this marketing campaign.
On February 1st, 1998 I will be raising the price of this package
back up to $79.95 and eventually up to $129.95 to test the upscale market.
If you act quickly, you have the opportunity to get these materials today
for the unbelievable low price of $39.95.

So, if you are seriously interested in learning how to acquire wealth 
by being online, ACT NOW!!  This won't last for long!

Print out this form and mail it to the address below, with your $39.95 
cash, check, money order or credit card information.


Natural Instincts
4676 Commercial St. SE Suite 201 
Salem, Oregon 97302   

Thank you =) 

****Please print out the order form and mail it along with your payment****

**********************************************************
                                 ORDER FORM
**********************************************************

NAME______________________________________________________

ADDRESS___________________________________________________

CITY_______________________ STATE__________ ZIP__________

Deliver "How to Profit from the Internet" to the following email address:

E-MAIL ADDRESS____________________________________________
(please note, all orders must include an email address incase we encounter a 
problem with processing)

Area code and Phone number (Optional)

Day time __________________  Evening:  ________________________

[ ] If you prefer to have the report on disk, please check here.  Please 
include an additional $3.00 for shipping and handling, thank you.

Please check one of the following:

[ ]  I'm ordering within 3 days, please send my FREE software, $10.00 
calling card, 15 How to Reports and "How To Profit From The Internet" 
and FREE bonuses for the unbelievably low price of $39.95 today.

[ ]  I'm not ordering within the first 3 days of receiving this letter, so I 
agree to pay $39.95 for "How to Profit from the Internet" by itself, 
less the bonus package.

Payment Method:                             [Internal code 138108]

[ ] Check 

[ ] Cash

[ ] Money Order

[ ] Credit Card, please make sure to include the mailing address above!
          
             [  ] Visa       [  ]  MasterCard

Name of Credit Card: _____________________________

Name as it appears on Card: _________________________________

Card Number: __________________________________

Expiration Date: _____ / _____

Signature of Card Holder: _________________________.

***********************************************************
"In mail-order work, anyone with imagination, determination, and a
willingness to study and experiment may have very little difficulty
getting started. A number of the most successful one-man operations
obtain an income as high as $40,000 to $100,000 a year."

                - U.S. Department of Commerce
************************************************************                                                                          
THE MARKET IS HERE - TODAY!   TAKE ADVANTAGE OF IT!!!!!
After you receive your report, I'll answer any questions time permits 
via email.  I'm looking forward to helping you succeed!












From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: eureka@eureka.abc-web.com
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 05:20:52 -0800 (PST)
To: All Eureka! Subscribers: ;
Subject: Eureka! Mon Jan 19 '98
Message-ID: <19980119083240.22195.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Welcome to Monday's issue of Eureka!

HARD CITY
Ouch -  you bet  it's hard.  What is?  Stupid question!  One
visit to this website  and the search  for porn becomes more
of a daily jaunt.  It's simply  packed with  stuff to do and
see,  and what's more, it's FREE for a limited trial period!
Hard City ......................... http://www.hardcity.com/

PLEASE VISIT THIS FINE EUREKA! PARTNER SITE
Free Memberships on the net
http://www.sexscandal.com
We rank the very best sex sites. Free memberships all the
time as we search the net for the hottest values and the
best looking gals.

LOUISE ON HOLIDAY
This  is  a  simple  website   of  a  young  Yorkshire  girl
sunbathing in someones backyard. She starts out rubbing baby
oil all  over her body, then  removes her bathing suit. This
is one hot little lady. You  have  to  see this one. One hot
honey! ...... http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~adrian_w/hols1.html

MEXICAN PUSSY FIESTA
Hola amigo's! This is a paysite but they have 5 images or so
to sample. Click on sample  pics,  this leads to some pretty 
large  high  quality  images  of  group  sex,  lesbians  and
facials. Stop by  to  see  the  lovely  latina  ladies spicy
tacos, olay! ............. http://aruba.janey.com/~slurping/

TEENS PLAYGROUND
This website  offers  up  some  great  free  pictures! Asian
teens, big boobs and more. One  set  of tits in there is the
biggest fucking tits I have ever seen! You have to see these
boobs! ........................... http://www.vip-master.no/

YOUNG EXPOSED WOMEN
Check out Sarah, Cybil, Denise and Colleen, you will be glad
you did. Each girl is easy  to find, click the thumbnail pix
then your sent to a layout of  each one. Sponge baths in the
haybarn,  legs spread wide.  Blondes, brunettes, well built!
Young Exposed Women ................... http://www.ywex.com/

FREE STREAMING VIDEO
Please note that most of these feeds require a Netscape bro-
wser in order to successfully view them. Unfortunately Micr-
osoft's browser does not have all the features of Netscape's
yet.  However, many of the feeds use the RealPlayer and will
work in most browsers.  If you do not have Netscape and want
a free copy click here ... http://www.netscape.com/download/
20vids+Chat .. http://209.1.31.175/chat/videochat.cgi?eureka

CHAT WITH OTHER READERS
This chat is growing fast, and already there are a number of
regulars  you will meet most days.  It's good to see Eureka!
readers interacting with each other and having a great time!
Adult/Sex Chat .................. http://137.39.63.229/chat/
General/Fun Chat ........ http://137.39.63.229/chat/funchat/

THE BEST PHONE SEX
NEW!!!! LD Call only! - Live Hot Girls!!!!....1-664-410-3912
LIVE: 1-on-1, 2-on-1, Group, Dateline.........1-800-644-8779
FREE: Live 1-on-1 (international call only)....011-678-77416

AMATEUR SITE OF THE DAY
KARIN: Visit Karin and her hubby Albert to be transferred to
the sordid affairs of  German  swingers.  They are kinky and
know how to have a good time! Couples like this make surfing
worthwhile.
............................ http://amateurindex.com/eureka/

EROTIC STORY SITE OF THE DAY
Adult Story of the Day:  Read  something for a change! Every
day the Adult Story of the Day  offers you a free erotic sex
story for your reading pleasure.............................
............................... http://www.adultstories.com/

DAILY CARTOON ........... http://www.erosinorbit.com/eureka/

ADULT STAR PIC OF THE DAY
Every day  we bring you an exclusive  choice pic of a famous
adult porn star.  And we must tell you - these pix are abso-
luletly brilliant! .... http://www.xxxadultstars.com/eureka/

GAYEUREKA!
The gay  newsletter is now  available.  You can get it here!
Gay Eureka! ........... http://eureka.abc-web.com/gayeureka/

EUREKA! TRANSLATIONS
As well as English you can now choose any of these languages
DEUTSCH ....... http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/deutsch.htm
ESPAŃOL ....... http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/espanol.htm
FRANÇAIS ..... http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/francais.htm
ITALIANO ..... http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/italiano.htm
PORTUGUESE . http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/portuguese.htm

TODAY'S FREE PIX
Pic  1 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?190
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Pic 10 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?199

============================================================
TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS NEWSLETTER,  USE THE REPLY FUNCTION
IN YOUR EMAIL PROGRAM, AND SEND THIS EMAIL RIGHT BACK TO US.
============================================================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Important.News@hotmail.com
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 10:26:26 -0800 (PST)
To: Important.News@hotmail.com
Subject: Regarding
Message-ID: <199801200343.TAA26102@mail.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




"I finally found the secrets I've been looking for.  Your manual  
tells all and has given me the tools I need to succeed, finally a 
genuine Internet insider tells all!  If you're doing business on the 
web or have ever wanted to, this is a must have.  You're the best,
I'm making your manual into my Internet Bible! Thanks a million!"

Best Regards,
(satisfied customer) Florida

WOW!, What a value your program is! Just the secrets on
email was worth the price alone, not to mention all the other
valuable things you included. I have already put up some ads
and I eagerly anticipate positive results.

Tom Hatcher - Minnesota


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello Internet friend,

What I am going to share with you may well be, for many of you, 
THE opportunity to start a unique, very successful business or take an 
EXISTING one to new untouched heights, by taking advantage of some 
breakthrough trends that are making "marketing history!"  You will soon
discover the art of . . . 

"How to Really Make Money on the Information Superhighway!"

Some of you may already have purchased some "electronic
marketing course" or tried to market some product online.
Maybe you even made a sizeable profit! Whatever the case may
be; No matter how successful you are right now, you can
profit tremendously from what we are about to tell you!

FACT:  ANYONE WHO HAS THE DRIVE TO SUCCEED CAN ACTUALLY MAKE A SIZABLE PROFIT ON THE INTERNET.

FACT:  NOT MANY PEOPLE ARE WILLING TO TAKE THE TIME TO ACTUALLY DO IT.

Why would people want to pass up this extremely valuable money making opportunity?

Because learning is the key to succeeding online.  Marketing on the Internet 
requires a wealth of  knowledge.  To learn everything you need to know 
about Marketing on the Internet takes more time than any human being 
can spare.  The small amount of Internet marketers actually making a 
sizable profit know this all too well. 

Now think about this...

WHAT IF? I could provide YOU with an incredible Marketing Package 
that encompasses all the "How To" information you need to be a success 
on the Internet.  This phenomenal package includes DETAILED Internet 
SECRETS (we don't hold anything back, its all here folks!!), which explains 
in detail how to Profit from the Internet Explosion.  Whether you have a 
business of your own or you want to start one.  It's filled with over 45 packed 
pages revealing the secrets about electronic marketing so many other online 
marketers DON'T want you to know.

I thought that might interest YOU.

Let me explain.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
 
Right now there are over sixty million people surfing the Internet.  By
the year 2000, that figure is expected to more than double. With so many 
people using the Internet, smart "net"repreneur's are taking advantage 
of what this new (in terms of true commercial application) and exciting 
medium has to offer.

The Internet presents one of the best ways to make money that has 
ever been introduced. On any given day you have the opportunity to 
reach more people than most cities have population wise. This is the 
reason so many businesses are scrambling to make their presence
known on the Internet. 

Being "online" offers a person the ability to reach multitudes of people 
from all over the world.  It also offers, to those who know how, THE 
ABILITY TO MAKE EXCELLENT MONEY. And we do mean 
excellent money!!!

CONSIDER THIS POSSIBILITY: You wake up in the morning and 
you put on a pot of coffee. As you sip on your cup of hot "brew" you 
saunter over and turn your computer on. Then, as your monitor glows 
from dim to bright, you find that you have inquiries from all sorts of 
people requesting what you have to offer. Later, after you have 
finished reading your inquiries, you stroll out to your mailbox. You 
find it is filled with letters from people from all across the world! 
What's even better though, is that the letters are FILLED WITH 
MONEY; cash, checks, and money orders. Then, after tallying 
up the totals, you find that you have made anywhere between  
$200 to $1,000 and it isn't even one o'clock in the afternoon. 
 
Think of it: NO boss, NO traffic, and NO annoying Co-workers. 
Wouldn't it feel great to wake up in the morning knowing you 
are going to be making excellent money but don't have to leave 
your house to do it!?!  Wouldn't your life be far less complicated?

The truth is, you can be one of those who become financially
independent via the Internet. AND THE BEST PART IS...IT 
DOESN'T REQUIRE A LOT OF MONEY!!

What it does require is the knowledge of how, what, and where 
to do it. That is where we can help. We provide you with 
the knowledge of how to begin earning substantial income from 
your computer via the "information superhighway".   

We can remember how overwhelming the Internet seemed when we
were first introduced to it.  We realized the marketing and profit 
potential the Internet holds, but really had no idea how to pursue it. 
In our thirst for answers and knowledge, we purchased everything 
we could find that had information on the How, What, and Where. 
We spent thousands of dollars, but we now know what works and
what doesn't.  No where, in all of our searching, could we find a 
complete packet of information for all of our questions.  That is why 
we decided to write this report.  We have compiled every proven 
method and secrets that we have learned along the way into one 
complete, easy to understand report.

This PROVEN REPORT makes believers of skeptics!  

Sound too good to be true?  That's what others have said.  That is, 
until they received their reports and saw for themselves just how easy
it is to make money on the net!


Hi NI,

I received your report and free bonuses last Saturday and wanted to
congratulate you on a job well done. I read through your report "How 
To Profit From The Internet" and I'm very impressed.  I have bought 
other books and manuals about  Online Marketing, Direct Marketing, 
E-mail, Mail Order, etc. Yours is the only one that explains the
subject  in an easy to understand language.  I finally found the 
secrets I've been looking for. 

Once again, Great Job!

Sincerely,
John Strand - Satisfied Customer



My father has always told me, "remember, Michele, there is no free 
lunch in life. You get out of life what you put into it."  Through trial 
and error and a somewhat slow frustrating start, I purchased your 
report and finally figured out how to start a very profitable business
from my home. Your report is great, you give the average person 
the tools and secrets to succeed.  I know my dad is very proud of 
me now.

I can't thank you enough =)

Michele B from Oregon


Good Morning,

I hope this finds you well.  I received your program yesterday after-
noon and read it cover to cover.  You have put together a very 
valuable resource indeed.  I have finally found the program that 
tells all!  Your program has given me the tools I need to succeed.  
Your program could truly end up being the best $39.95 I ever spent!

Your the best, I'm making your manual into my internet Bible!!  
Thanks a million!

Best Regards,
Mary Wecker


This is a wonderful opportunity, we urge you to take advantage of it. 
You won't find too many people that will give away ALL of their
secrets!!  The majority of the rich people today have copied what  
someone else is or has been doing.  That is what we are offering 
you now--a chance to copy our success!!  It is very easy and we 
ARE for REAL!

Here's a little more incentive to check this out...

~IF YOU ORDER WITHIN 3 DAYS~

We will send you:

 **** FREE $400 Bulk e-mail Software ****
 **** FREE $200 Check by phone, fax, E-mail Software ****
 **** FREE $10 Calling Card ****
 
----PLUS----

We will send you a list of over 100 major search engines ready to
surf on the Internet or to place a free link to your web page.   Also, 
you will receive a list of  98 of the best inexpensive newspapers to 
advertise in (U.S. orders only).  The list is complete with papers name, 
city, phone number, circulation and frequency  (Daily or Weekly).  

We will also include five free BONUS reports that include these topics:
· How to Protect your PC from Viruses
· How to get 300+ Quality Prospect to E-mail you Weekly
· Tips and Secrets to Advertising with the major Online Services
· What's wrong with the World Wide Web 
· Tax Advantages for the Home Business Owner.  
You will find that these five reports by themselves are worth 
thousands of dollars to you. These bonuses alone are worth several 
times the cost of the report.

We will also give you a secret list of over 1500 of the best Web sites 
where you can place a FREE advertisement.  This is a list we use 
every day to run our business and we are giving it to you!  Imagine 
what a great offering we are giving you for FREE! 

And we're not through, if you order RIGHT NOW,  we will give you 
15 FREE "How to Reports" that you are free to market and sell on the 
Internet or through mail order for $15-30 each.  They are 45-60 
informational packed pages each.  A great way to start your own 
Net based business!  The topics are;

            1)   Earn Extra Dollars with a Home Based Answering Machine 
            2)   How to Buy a Car with Bad Credit 
            3)   How to Make Thousands of Dollars Winning Contests 
            4)   U.S. Government Auction Sales 
            5)   An Insider's Guide to Finding and Obtaining Grant Money 
            6)   Home Based Business for Fun and Profit 
            7)   How to Get a Job Fast 
            8)   How to Make Money Without Leaving Your House 
            9)   How to Turn the Hobby of Photography into Thousands 
           10)   Making Money at Garage Sales, Swap Meets, and Flea Markets 
           11)   How to Get Paid for Watching TV 
           12)   Getting Your Start in Theater, Television, and Movies 
           13)   Wills or Trusts?  The Case for Living Trusts 
           14)   How To Find Work with the Federal Government 
           15)   How to Write Almost Anything and Get Paid for it!

Are we nuts?

No, it just shows how confident we are that you'll be delighted with 
the information you'll have...just like the others who are already using 
the information and making money.  You will be surprised how quickly 
you can be earning money on the Internet!
 
So you are probably thinking to yourself, this is wonderful, but how much?  
$149.95,  $99.95 maybe even  $79.95?  You may have seen other companies 
marketing "How To" information on the Internet and charging these prices. 
People are actually buying these packages at these prices.  Why?  People 
want to know how to market a product or service the "Right" way on the 
Internet.  "How to Profit from the Internet" could easily sell for any of the 
above prices.  However, we feel that we would rather help those who 
may not have the ability to pay such a price in order to be successful.  
That is why we are offering "How to Profit from the Internet" for the 
unbelievable low price of $39.95.

That's right, that was not a typo...$39.95.  

Still skeptical???  Lets put that to rest right now.  We will make this 
completely risk free for you.  If you are not 100% satisfied with the
information you receive, and believe that you cannot use it to start a
successful business or increase your current business profits, return it
within 10 days and we will refund your money.  No questions asked!!  
(Because this information is very easy to copy, the guarantee is only 
available on Disk Orders).

I have sold this package at much higher prices in the recent past and will be
forced to raise my prices in the very near future. One of the things
you will learn in my manual is to constantly test your market.  I am
currently in the price testing phase of this marketing campaign.
On February 1st, 1998 I will be raising the price of this package
back up to $79.95 and eventually up to $129.95 to test the upscale market.
If you act quickly, you have the opportunity to get these materials today
for the unbelievable low price of $39.95.

So, if you are seriously interested in learning how to acquire wealth 
by being online, ACT NOW!!  This won't last for long!

Print out this form and mail it to the address below, with your $39.95 
cash, check, money order or credit card information.


Natural Instincts
4676 Commercial St. SE Suite 201 
Salem, Oregon 97302   

Thank you =) 

****Please print out the order form and mail it along with your payment****

**********************************************************
                                 ORDER FORM
**********************************************************

NAME______________________________________________________

ADDRESS___________________________________________________

CITY_______________________ STATE__________ ZIP__________

Deliver "How to Profit from the Internet" to the following email address:

E-MAIL ADDRESS____________________________________________
(please note, all orders must include an email address incase we encounter a 
problem with processing)

Area code and Phone number (Optional)

Day time __________________  Evening:  ________________________

[ ] If you prefer to have the report on disk, please check here.  Please 
include an additional $3.00 for shipping and handling, thank you.

Please check one of the following:

[ ]  I'm ordering within 3 days, please send my FREE software, $10.00 
calling card, 15 How to Reports and "How To Profit From The Internet" 
and FREE bonuses for the unbelievably low price of $39.95 today.

[ ]  I'm not ordering within the first 3 days of receiving this letter, so I 
agree to pay $39.95 for "How to Profit from the Internet" by itself, 
less the bonus package.

Payment Method:                             [Internal code 138109]

[ ] Check 

[ ] Cash

[ ] Money Order

[ ] Credit Card, please make sure to include the mailing address above!
          
             [  ] Visa       [  ]  MasterCard

Name of Credit Card: _____________________________

Name as it appears on Card: _________________________________

Card Number: __________________________________

Expiration Date: _____ / _____

Signature of Card Holder: _________________________.

***********************************************************
"In mail-order work, anyone with imagination, determination, and a
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: eureka@eureka.abc-web.com
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 03:12:58 -0800 (PST)
To: All Eureka! Subscribers: ;
Subject: Eureka! Tue Jan 20 '98
Message-ID: <19980120082832.11724.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: marketing@shanesworld.com
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 12:19:09 -0800 (PST)
To: marketing@shanesworld.com
Subject: Lets Chat
Message-ID: <199801202019.MAA17564@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


/////////////////////////////////////////////////////
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/////////////////////////////////////////////////////





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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adults-Best@our.net
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 13:25:05 -0800 (PST)
To: joseyl@usa.net
Subject: ADULT TRAFFIC TRADE - FREE GIFTS!!!
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19971209114127.00a0983b0@netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 65982672@hk.super.net
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 14:57:13 -0800 (PST)
To: member1654@aol.com
Subject: Get More Orders For Anything You Sell
Message-ID: <4563463463573564652463423465>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Vi.Sion@19109.com
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 18:59:02 -0800 (PST)
To: Marketer@19109.com
Subject: BRAND NEW $10 MATRIX
Message-ID: <199702170025.GAA08056@wrinkletop.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ray Hirschfeld 
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 19:26:57 -0800 (PST)
To: R.Hirschfeld@cwi.nl
Subject: Financial Cryptography '98 Preliminary Program
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


                      Financial Cryptography '98
                   Second International Conference
                 February 23-25, 1998, Anguilla, BWI
                          CONFERENCE PROGRAM


General Information:

Financial Cryptography '98 (FC98) is a conference on the security of
digital financial transactions.  Meetings alternate between the island
of Anguilla in the British West Indies and other locations.  This
second meeting will be held in Anguilla on February 23-25, 1998.  FC98
aims to bring together persons involved in both the financial and data
security fields to foster cooperation and exchange of ideas.

Original papers were solicited on all aspects of financial data
security and digital commerce in general.


Program Committee:

Matt Blaze, AT&T Laboratories--Research, Florham Park, NJ, USA
Antoon Bosselaers, Katholieke Universiteit Leuven, Leuven, Belgium
Yves Carlier, Bank for International Settlements, Basel, Switzerland
Walter Effross, Washington College of Law, American U., Washington DC, USA
Matthew Franklin (Co-Chair), AT&T Laboratories--Research, Florham Park, NJ, USA
Michael Froomkin, U. Miami School of Law, Coral Gables, FL, USA
Rafael Hirschfeld (Chair), Unipay Technologies, Amsterdam, The Netherlands
Alain Mayer, Bell Laboratories/Lucent Technologies, Murray Hill, NJ, USA
Moni Naor, Weizmann Institute of Science, Rehovot, Israel
Frank Trotter, Mark Twain Ecash/Mercantile Bank, St. Louis, MO, USA
Doug Tygar, Carnegie Mellon University, Pittsburgh, PA, USA
Moti Yung, CertCo LLC (formerly: Bankers Trust E-Commerce), New York, NY, USA


Conference Program for FC98:

Monday 23 February 1998

 800 --  820
    Breakfast

 820 --  830
    Welcome

 830 --  905
    Micropayments via Efficient Coin-Flipping
    Richard J. Lipton (Princeton University, Princeton, NJ, USA)
    Rafail Ostrovsky (Bellcore, Morristown, NJ, USA)

 905 --  940
    X-Cash: Executable Digital Cash
    Markus Jakobsson (Bell Laboratories, Murray Hill, NJ, USA)
    Ari Juels (RSA Laboratories, Bedford, MA, USA)
 
 940 -- 1015
    Billing Without Paper...Or Billing Without Billers?
      Caveat Biller: 3rd Party Concentrators Could Come Between You
      and Your Customers
    Richard K. Crone (CyberCash, Reston, VA, USA)
 
1015 -- 1045
    Coffee Break

1045 -- 1120
    A Platform for Privately Defined Currencies, Loyalty Credits,
      and Play Money
    David P. Maher (AT&T Labs--Research, Florham Park, NJ, USA)

1120 -- 1155
    Assessment of Threats for Smart Card Based Electronic Cash
    Kazuo J. Ezawa, Gregory Napiorkowski
        (Mondex International, Florham Park, NJ, USA)

1155 -- 1230
    Using a High-Performance, Programmable Secure Coprocessor
    Sean W. Smith, Elaine R. Palmer, Steve Weingart
        (IBM T.J. Watson Research Center, Yorktown Heights, NY, USA)
 
1230 -- 1330
    Lunch

1800 -- 1930
    Cocktail Reception (at Mariners Hotel)


Tuesday 24 February 1998

 800 --  830
    Breakfast

 830 --  905
    Secure Group Barter:
      Multi-Party Fair Exchange with Semi-Trusted Neutral Parties
    Matt Franklin (AT&T Labs--Research, Florham Park, NJ, USA)
    Gene Tsudik (USC Information Sciences Institute, Marina del Rey, CA, USA)

 905 --  940
    A Payment Scheme Using Vouchers
    Ernest Foo, Colin Boyd
        (Queensland University of Technology, Brisbane, Australia)
 
 940 -- 1015
    A Formal Specification of Requirements for Payment Transactions
      in the SET Protocol
    Catherine Meadows, Paul Syverson
        (Naval Research Laboratory, Washington, DC, USA)
 
1015 -- 1045
    Coffee Break

1045 -- 1120
    On Assurance Structures for WWW Commerce
    Markus Jakobsson (Bell Laboratories, Murray Hill, NJ, USA)
    Moti Yung (CertCo, New York, NY, USA)

1120 -- 1230
    Panel Discussion
    Certificate Revocation: Mechanics and Meaning
    Barb Fox (Microsoft, Redmond, WA, USA), moderator
    Joan Feigenbaum (AT&T Labs--Research, Florham Park, NJ, USA)
    Paul Kocher (Valicert, Palo Alto, CA, USA)
    Michael Myers (Verisign, Mountain View, CA, USA)
    Ron Rivest (MIT Laboratory for Computer Science, Cambridge, MA, USA)  
 
1230 -- 1330
    Lunch

2000 -- 2200
    Rump Session


Wednesday 25 February 1998

 800 --  830
    Breakfast

 830 --  930
    Invited Speaker
    Private Signatures and E-commerce
    David Chaum (DigiCash, Palo Alto, CA, USA)

 930 -- 1005
    Group Blind Digital Signatures:
      A Scalable Solution to Electronic Cash
    Anna Lysyanskaya, Zulfikar Ramzan
        (MIT Laboratory for Computer Science, Cambridge, MA, USA)

1005 -- 1045
    Coffee Break

1045 -- 1120
    Curbing Junk E-Mail via Secure Classification
    Eran Gabber, Markus Jakobsson, Yossi Matias, Alain Mayer
        (Bell Laboratories, Murray Hill, NJ, USA)

1120 -- 1155
    Publicly Verifiable Lotteries:
      Applications of Delaying Functions
    David M. Goldschlag (Divx, Herndon, VA, USA)
    Stuart G. Stubblebine (AT&T Labs--Research, Florham Park, NJ, USA)

1155 -- 1230
    Security of Digital Watermarks
    Lesley R. Matheson, Stephen G. Mitchell, Talal G. Shamoon,
      Robert E. Tarjan, Francis X. Zane
        (STAR Lab, InterTrust Technologies, Sunnyvale, CA, USA)

1230 -- 1330
    Lunch

1330 -- 1405
    Security in the Java Electronic Commerce Framework
    Surya Koneru, Ted Goldstein
        (JavaSoft, Palo Alto, CA, USA)

1405 -- 1440
    Beyond Identity: Warranty-Based Digital Signature Transactions
    Yair Frankel, David W. Kravitz, Charles T. Montgomery, Moti Yung
        (CertCo, New York, NY, USA)

1440 -- 1515
    Compliance Checking in the PolicyMaker Trust Management System
    Matt Blaze, Joan Feigenbaum, Martin Strauss
        (AT&T Labs--Research, Florham Park, NJ, USA)

1515 -- 1545
    Coffee Break

1545 -- 1620
    An Efficient Fair Off-Line Electronic Cash System
      with Extensions to Checks and Wallets with Observers
    Aymeric de Solages, Jacque Traore
        (France Telecom--CNET, Caen, France)

1620 -- 1655
    An Efficient Untraceable Electronic Money System Based on
      Partially Blind Signatures of the Discrete Logarithm Problem
    Shingo Mayazaki, Kouichi Sakurai
        (Kyushu University, Fukuoka, Japan)

1655 -- 1700
    Closing


The conference schedule and additional information is available at the
URL http://www.cwi.nl/conferences/FC98/.

Breakfast and lunch are provided at the conference.  The conference
organizers have left time open for corporate sponsored events, for
networking, and for recreational activities on the resort island of
Anguilla.  Participants are encouraged to bring their families.


Workshop:

A 40-hour workshop, intended for anyone with commercial software
development experience who wants hands-on familiarity with the issues
and technology of financial cryptography, is planned in conjunction
with FC98, to be held during the week following the conference.

For more information on the workshop, please see the URL
http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~iang/fc98/workshop.html.

For workshop registration, see the URL http://fc98.ai/.


Special Attraction:

On Thursday, February 26, 1998, there will be a total eclipse of the
sun.  The narrow zone of 100% totality will pass just south of
Anguilla.  A boat excursion to the center of the eclipse zone is
planned, for an optimal view of the eclipse.  The excursion is
included in the conference registration; additional tickets can be
purchased for accompanying persons.


Venue:

The Inter-Island Hotel is a small 14-room guest house with a large,
comfortable 150-seat conference facility and additional space for a
small 10-booth exhibition.  The Inter-Island is on Road Bay, near
Sandy Ground Village, in the South Hill section of Anguilla.  The
conference, workshop, and exhibition will have TCP/IP internet access.
Shuttle service to the conference will be available.


Air Transportation and Hotels:

Air travel to Anguilla is typically done through San Juan for US
flights, or St. Maarten/Martin for flights from Europe and the US.
There are also connections via Antigua.

Anguillan import duties are not imposed on hardware or software which
will leave the island again. There are no other taxes--or cryptography
import/export restrictions--on Anguilla.

Hotels range from spartan to luxurious, and more information about
hotels on Anguilla can be obtained from your travel agent, or at the
URL http://fc98.ai/.  A block reservation has been made at Mariners,
and this is the recommended hotel except for those seeking budget
accomodations.


General Chairs:

Robert Hettinga, Shipwright, Boston, MA, USA
   email: rah@shipwright.com
Vincent Cate, Offshore Information Services, Anguilla, BWI
   email: vince@offshore.com.ai

Exhibits and Sponsorship Manager:

Blanc Weber, Seattle, WA, USA
   email: blancw@cnw.com

Workshop Leader:

Ian Goldberg, Berkeley, CA, USA
  email: iang@cs.berkeley.edu


Registration:

You can register and pay for conference admission via the World Wide
Web at the URL http://fc98.ai/.

The cost of the FC98 Conference is US$1,000.  There are reduced rates
of US$250 and US$100 for full-time academics and students.

Booths for the exhibition start at US$5,000 and include two conference
tickets. For more information about exhibit space, contact Blanc
Weber, blancw@cnw.com.  Sponsorship opportunities for FC98 are still
available.

The cost of the workshop is US$5000, and includes meals but not
lodging.  You can register for the workshop, which runs the week after
the conference, at the URL http://fc98.ai/.


Financial Cryptography '98 is held in cooperation with the
International Association for Cryptologic Research.

It is sponsored by:

RSA Data Security Inc. 
C2NET, Inc. 
Hansa Bank & Trust Company Limited, Anguilla 
Sicherheit und Privat- International Bank 
Offshore Information Services 
e$ 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: B_Crawford49@earthlink.net
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 22:44:05 -0800 (PST)
To: yourbox@mail.com
Subject: Additional Source of Income
Message-ID: <0000000000.AAA000@earthlink.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




*************************************************************
Our Research Has Indicated That The Following
Message Will Be Of Interest To You.
*************************************************************



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     You can begin to make money even faster if you choose one of the 
programs or plans that the book describes in detail. I'll tell you 
everything you need to know to get started. By taking a few simple 
steps, you can already be making money just 48 hours after you receive 
the book.

How Much Is This Going To Cost Me?

     "The Home Workers Survival Guide" costs just $29.95 plus $3.00
pastage and handling. I'm so sure this book will help you find
legitimate work that I am backing it by an unconditional guarantee. If 
for ANY reason you do not feel the book helped you earn enough extra 
income, simply return it for a full refund, including postage and tax. 
What's better is that this rock-solid guarantee is good for two full 
months, which allows you to really look it over and check out the 
opportunities.

     You deserve to feel the joy of getting huge weekly paychecks. Please 
complete the order form and mail it today. Everything will be rushed 
to you by first class mail. 

                                                                              
                                                                                        Sincerely, 
                                                                              
                                                                                        Brian Crawford

P.S. I've just added some great new information to the book. Some 
people are already making as much as $3000 a week with a new 
program that lets them work in the comfort of their own home. It 
costs nothing to get started and anyone can do it. It's like nothing I 
have ever seen before, and it is sure to make people a lot of money.
Details will be rushed to you along with your book order. 


                          Please Print and Mail This Order Form to: 
cut here
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ANP                                                                              #MP11
c/o Brian Crawford                            
P.O. Box 712102 
Santee, CA 92072-2102                    

                      ( ) Yes, I would love to get started immediately. Please
                           rush me "The Home Workers Survival Guide"          
                           under your unlimited two month guarantee. 
                           Enclosed is $29.95 plus $3.00 shipping and 
                           handling.*  $32.95 total.                       

          *Checks may be made payable to ANP


Name____________________________________________ 


Address___________________________________________                            


City, State, Zip_____________________________________    
                                                      Internal Code [E8SB(c)120]
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
cut here



























From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: eureka@eureka.abc-web.com
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 04:15:28 -0800 (PST)
To: All Eureka! Subscribers: ;
Subject: Eureka! Wed Jan 21 '98
Message-ID: <19980121082748.19022.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Welcome to Wednesday's issue of Eureka!

UNFAITHFUL
Just once in a while  a brand new site comes along that will
blow your mind,  and Unfaithful  is one of them.  Brought to
you by two  of the biggest  names on the web,  Intertain and
Playgal,  it offers MORE than both sites put together, which
includes  an amazing  3,000 video feeds - yes,  thousands of
hot, streaming videos, many totally live, and some even with
audio too!  With it's FREE trial offer don't miss this site!
Unfaithful ... http://www.unfaithful.com/banner_Eureka0.html

PLEASE VISIT THIS FINE EUREKA! PARTNER SITE
LOOKING FOR *FREE* SMUT? - SEXY SAMANTHA REVEALS ALL!
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I'm Sam and I've searched the web for only the very best
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ANAL LOVING LESBIANS
Up the butt with dildos, fingers and dicks. Three pages with
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Anal Loving ......... http://www.anallesbians.com/index.html

MONICA'S HARDESTCORE IMAGES IN THE WORLD
The title makes you interested,  the websites delivers! Some
of the images  here  may  scare  you.  We  are  talking body
piercing in the worst way. Needles in tits, clit rings. Wild
images! .......... http://www.rawpussy.com/hardest/hard.html

IN HER SNATCH OR DOWN HER HATCH?
Click on the above titled link  when  you get there. Then on
the following page at the bottom  you will have two choices.
Snatch or hatch, click on one any your in! In the hatch area
you will find lots of thumbnail  images of hot babes sucking
on one cock or two alone and with another girl. Hot website!
In Her Snatch .......... http://www.darkcorners.com/bedroom/

RACHEL'S RESTROOM
There is a ton of text on  this  website but way down at the
bottom of the page there  are  some  thumbnails of some wild
images. Pussy, panties and  pissing.  You golden shower guys
are in  for a real  treat here.  Checkout  the bridge image.
Rachel's Restroom ................. http://www.restroom.net/

FREE STREAMING VIDEO
Please note that most of these feeds require a Netscape bro-
wser in order to successfully view them. Unfortunately Micr-
osoft's browser does not have all the features of Netscape's
yet.  However, many of the feeds use the RealPlayer and will
work in most browsers.  If you do not have Netscape and want
a free copy click here ... http://www.netscape.com/download/
Just 18 ........................ http://204.244.215.7/teens/

CHAT WITH OTHER READERS
This chat is growing fast, and already there are a number of
regulars  you will meet most days.  It's good to see Eureka!
readers interacting with each other and having a great time!
Adult/Sex Chat .................. http://137.39.63.229/chat/
General/Fun Chat ........ http://137.39.63.229/chat/funchat/

THE BEST PHONE SEX
NEW!!!! LD Call only! - Live Hot Girls!!!!....1-664-410-3912
LIVE: 1-on-1, 2-on-1, Group, Dateline.........1-800-644-8779
FREE: Live 1-on-1 (international call only)....011-678-77416

AMATEUR SITE OF THE DAY
SOPHIA: This blue-eyed beauty will make your heart melt. Not
only is this  Texas  gal  beautiful,  but  she  has  a close
connection to her fans who keep  up with her life by reading
her soap opera, a section  devoted  to her love life. Sophia
is a real sweetheart,  visit  her  now  and  you will not be
sorry!
............................ http://amateurindex.com/eureka/

EROTIC STORY SITE OF THE DAY
Very Sexy Erotic Stories: Ready  for  lots  of hot, free sex
stories? Look no further than  Very Sexy Erotic Stories. All
different subjects, all free. ..... http://www.verysexy.com/

DAILY CARTOON ........... http://www.erosinorbit.com/eureka/

ADULT STAR PIC OF THE DAY
Every day  we bring you an exclusive  choice pic of a famous
adult porn star.  And we must tell you - these pix are abso-
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GAYEUREKA!
The gay  newsletter is now  available.  You can get it here!
Gay Eureka! ........... http://eureka.abc-web.com/gayeureka/

EUREKA! TRANSLATIONS
As well as English you can now choose any of these languages
DEUTSCH ....... http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/deutsch.htm
ESPAŃOL ....... http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/espanol.htm
FRANÇAIS ..... http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/francais.htm
ITALIANO ..... http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/italiano.htm
PORTUGUESE . http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/portuguese.htm

TODAY'S FREE PIX
Pic  1 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?210
Pic  2 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?211
Pic  3 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?212
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Pic  6 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?215
Pic  7 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?216
Pic  8 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?217
Pic  9 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?218
Pic 10 ........................... http://137.39.63.229/?219

============================================================
TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS NEWSLETTER,  USE THE REPLY FUNCTION
IN YOUR EMAIL PROGRAM, AND SEND THIS EMAIL RIGHT BACK TO US.
============================================================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: saveonaeb5@ix.netcom.com
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 13:44:40 -0800 (PST)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: Start Your Own Publishing BIZ
Message-ID: <3975100040408.MCW47692@hinsig.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



CRIME REPORTS
Make Crime Pay!

It Can Pay you up to 1000% Profit!

Become a Publisher---Sell Information about how
to Stop and Guard Against Today's Crime!

Order all 15 reports and receive full reproduction rights. You become the publisher!
You can then have these reports printed and sell them for whatever amount you wish.
Just one small investment and you own a complete ready made mail order business with limitless potential.

1. How to Protect Your Home from Intruders
2. How to Protect Yourself on City Streets
3. How to Protect Your Valuables from Theft
4. How to Protect yourself while Traveling
5. How to Guard against Purse Snatchers
6. How to Protect against Armed Robbery
7. How to Protect against Pick-Pocketers
8. How to Safeguard against Rape
9. How Shoplifting affects you and Your Family
10. How to Protect Cars, Bicycles, and Motorcycles
11. How to Protect Your Home While Away
12. How to Burglar Proof Your Home
13. How to Burglar Proof your Windows
14. How to Select a Burglar Alarm
15. How to Reduce Crime in Your Neighborhood

SPECIAL BONUS OFFER:

Order all 15 Reports for just $10.00 and you will also receive:
1. Full Reproduction Rights
2. A complete marketing program showing exactly how to sell
these reports to other dealers
3. The right to reproduce this Copyrighted Sales Letter with your own name

Your printer can print these reports for a few cents each. You can sell them for
at least $2.00 each! Or, have all 15 printed for less than the cost of 2 packs of gum. You can sell them as a package---including full reproduction rights---for at least $20! How's that for profit? Or bundle them with other reports you are currently selling to give customers more bang for the buck!
Become a publisher and get into the really Big Money! Don't pass up this opportunity!
Order now..Number of Dealerships is Limited.


Send your check or money order to:
Freelance! Co.
331 West 57th Street
Suite # 340
New York NY 10019


_______Yes, please send me the complete marketing package of 15 crime reports. I have enclosed $10.00 (check/money order) to cover applicable shipping and handling fees. Please rush delivery so that I can get started right away!

Name_____________________________________________________

Address___________________________________________________

City_________________________________State_____Zip__________

Email Address______________________________________________

Tel Number(optional)_________________________________________








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: webwerx@hotmail.com
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 21:42:45 -0800 (PST)
To: webwerx@hotmail.com
Subject: website advertising and design
Message-ID: <199801220431.XAA09057@eden-backend.rutgers.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
This Message was Composed using Extractor Pro Bulk E- Mail Software. If 
you wish to be removed from this advertiser's future mailings, please reply 
with the subject "Remove" and this software will automatically block you 
from their future mailings.
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

WebwerX is a company dedicated to professional and personal website design as well as advertising.  We cater to the small home-based business or personal homepage to the large extensive company's needs.  We offer the most competive rates on the internet.  Our custom graphics artists and programmers will ensure that you have the most up-to-date in web design and artwork.  We offer many features such as javascript, scanned images, animated .gifs, custom backgrounds and pictures, client-side image maps, and much more.  WebwerX is also dedicated to advertising its clients websites on the web.  Choose from an array of advertising options from the small one-time submission to the large in-depth monthly advertising campaign.  Get noticed now on the web.  Don't wait until it is too late.

Thank you,   WebwerX

email us at: webwerx@hotmail.com
visit us at: http://www.hypermart.net/webwerxdesign





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: aa8833 
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 00:23:42 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <19943672.886214@relay.comanche.denmark.eu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Authenticated sender is 
Subject:  1-22
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

EMAIL MARKETING WORKS!!

Bull's Eye Gold is the PREMIER email address collection tool.
This program allows you to develop TARGETED lists of email
addresses.  Doctors, florists, MLM, biz opp,...you can collect
anything...you are only limited by your imagination!  You can
even collect email addresses for specific states, cities, and
even countries!  All you need is your web browser and this program.
Our software utilizes the latest in search technology called
"spidering". By simply feeding the spider program a starting
website it will collect for hours. The spider will go from website
to targeted website providing you with thousands upon thousands of
fresh TARGETED email addresses. When you are done collecting,  the
spider removes duplicates and saves the email list in a ready to
send format. No longer is it necessary to send millions of ads to
get a handful of responses...SEND LESS...EARN MORE!!!

A terrific aspect of the Bull's Eye software is that there is
no difficult set up involved and no special technical mumbo-jumbo
to learn. All you need to know is how to search for your targeted
market in one of the many search engines and let the spider do the
rest! Not familiar with the search engines? No problem, we provide
you with a list of all the top search engines. Just surf to the
location of a search engine on your browser then search for the
market you wish to reach...it's that easy!

For instance if you were looking for email addresses of Doctors
in New York all you would do is:

1) Do a search using your favorite search engine by typing in
the words doctor(s) and New York
2) Copy the URL (one or more)...that's the stuff after the
http://...  for instance it might look like
http://www.yahoo.com/?doctor(s)/?New+York
3) Press the START button

THAT's IT!!!  The Bull's Eye spider will go to all the websites
that are linked, automatically extracting the email addresses
you want.

The spider is passive too! That means you can let it run all
day or all night while you are working on important things or
just having fun on your computer. There is no need to keep a
constant watch on it, just feed it your target market and give
it praise when it delivers thousands of email addresses at
the end of the day!

Features of the Bull's Eye Software:

* Does TARGETED searches of websites collecting the email
  addresses you want!
* Collects Email addresses by City, State, even specific
  Countries
* Runs Automatically...simply enter the Starting information,
  press The Start Button, and it does the rest
* Filters out duplicates
* Keeps track of URLs already visited
* Can run 24 hours per day, 7 days per week
* Fast and Easy List Management
* Also has built in filtering options...you can put in words
  that it "Must" have while searching,...you can even put in
  criteria that it  "Must NOT Have"...giving you added flexibility
* Also imports email addresses from any kind of files (text
  files, binary files, database files)
* List editor handles Multiple files to work on many lists
  simultaneously
* Has a Black-Book feature... avoid sending emails to people
  who do not want to receive it
* Built-in Mail program...send email directly on the internet
  with just a click of your mouse
* Personalized Emails...if the email address has the user's
  name when it is collected,..you can send Personalized emails!!!
* Sort by Location, Server, User Name, Contact Name
* Advanced Operations:
· Email address lists export in many different formats
  (HTML, Comma delimited, text file)
· Advanced editing...Transfer, Copy,  Addition, Delete, Crop,
  Move to Top/Bottom
· Operations between lists...Union, Subtraction, Comparison
* Program is Passive,...meaning you can run other programs at
  the same time

CALL FOR MORE INFORMATION   213-980-7850
CALL FOR MORE INFORMATION   213-980-7850

ORDERING INFORMATION

Customer Name
Company Name
Address
City
State                       Zip
Phone                                       Fax
Email Address

______ BULL'S EYE SOFTWARE   $259.00
Includes Software, Instructions, Technical Support

______ Shipping & Handling  (2-3 Day Fedex)  $10.00
                           (Fedex Overnite) $20.00

______  TOTAL
                 (CA Residents add applicable sales tax)

*All orders are for Win 95 and Win NT

                *****CREDIT CARDS ACCEPTED*****
                   MASTERCARD   VISA   AMEX

   PLEASE CALL 213-980-7850 to process your order
                        9am-5pm Pacific Time
                Checks or Money Orders send to:
                      WorldTouch Network Inc.
5670 Wilshire Blvd.  Suite 2170 Los Angeles, CA 90036
Please note:  Allow 5 business days for all checks to
clear before order is shipped.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: eureka@eureka.abc-web.com
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 00:53:11 -0800 (PST)
To: All Eureka! Subscribers: ;
Subject: Eureka! Thu Jan 22 '98
Message-ID: <19980122081627.13708.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Welcome to Thursday's issue of Eureka!

HE GIRLS!
This site calls itself  "The original She-Male, slut wonder-
land",  and it's hard not to agree.  With multiple live she-
male slut video feeds. Huge numbers of amazing shemale pics,
extra  hot stories  and so much more,  you'll just love this
site. And what's more, we have arranged a special free trial
membership for all Eureka! subscribers.  So go check it out!
HeGirls ... http://207.33.10.198/cgi-bin/gate1/pbm/he_0024/0

PLEASE VISIT THIS FINE EUREKA! PARTNER SITE
SINFUL'S 20 FREE XXX PICS
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20 FREE HARDCORE, CUMSHOT, GROUPSEX, AND FREE ANALSEX PHOTOS
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CATEGORIES INCLUDE: ASIAN, HARDCORE, SOFTCORE, BABES, AND
PIC LINKS. YOU GET ALL OF THIS FOR FREE!! VISIT US NOW!!

PERSIAN KITTY'S ADULT LINKS
The most up to date  listing  of visitor friendly free links 
on the net. Updated twice  daily so there's always something
new. Don't  miss  the  most  recent  feature,  the Panoramic 
Background of the Week. A beautiful  Hi-Rez image for you to
download and use  on  your  desktop.  PK  takes  care of her 
visitors! Get the desktop image, it is really hot! This is a
must  see site.  Bookmark this  baby right now.  We mean it! 
Persian Kitty's ........ http://www.persiankitty.com/pk.html

SEX FROM THE CRAB NEBULA
Cool site!  Venture into  the furthest reaches  of  the four
Galaxies..  Each  Galaxy is  inhabited  by  voracious  alien
females who eat you for breakfast. Fortunately they all look
like Earth's prettiest, naked, hardcore girls.  There are 56
pix with thumbnails and nice graphics. You should boldly go!
Sex From The Crab Nebula ...... http://207.240.121.91/Space/

OSCAR'S HARDCORE LUAU
Grab  your  grass skirt and  head  for  the islands  because
Oscar's throwing a heck of a beach party. A secret tradition
dating back to the early 50's, the Hardcore Luau has finally
hit the internet like a Tsunami.  Oscar's got humour, style,
and a lot of hardcore Hawaii honey pix.  Bookmark him Danno!
Oscar's Hardcore Luau ......... http://www.xstart.com/oscar/

WENDY'S SATIN DOLLS
Wendy's a generous girl. See the dolls get dirty.  They were
fully poseable  in the anal,  bjs,  group sex,  and  lesbian
scenes  that we saw.  Go see the  hot babes at play.  It's a
straight forward  dirty site.  Hot.  Just  how we  like 'em.
Wendy's Satin Doll's ............ http://www.satindolls.com/

FREE STREAMING VIDEO
Please note that most of these feeds require a Netscape bro-
wser in order to successfully view them. Unfortunately Micr-
osoft's browser does not have all the features of Netscape's
yet.  However, many of the feeds use the RealPlayer and will
work in most browsers.  If you do not have Netscape and want
a free copy click here --> http://www.netscape.com/download/
20vids+Chat .. http://209.1.31.175/chat/videochat.cgi?eureka

CHAT WITH OTHER READERS
This chat is growing fast, and already there are a number of
regulars  you will meet most days.  It's good to see Eureka!
readers interacting with each other and having a great time!
Adult/Sex Chat -----------------> http://137.39.63.229/chat/
General/Fun Chat -------> http://137.39.63.229/chat/funchat/

THE BEST PHONE SEX
NEW!!!! LD Call only! - Live Hot Girls!!!!--->1-664-410-3912
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AMATEUR SITE OF THE DAY
ASHLEY: This  raven-haired  babe's  initials  are  A.S.S. It
seems she was destined to  be  an exhibitionist, because she
loves to show off! With a  bunch  of FREE picture sets, this
gal is easy on the eyes.
---------------------------> http://amateurindex.com/eureka/

EROTIC STORY SITE OF THE DAY
TabooStories.com: Nasty  alert!  TabooStories.com  gives you
the hardest, nastiest sex stories  on  the net, all free! We
have the stories that the  other  sites  don't dare to post!
Don't say we dindn't warn you.. http://www.taboostories.com/

DAILY CARTOON ----------> http://www.erosinorbit.com/eureka/

ADULT STAR PIC OF THE DAY
Every day  we bring you an exclusive  choice pic of a famous
adult porn star.  And we must tell you - these pix are abso-
luletly brilliant! ---> http://www.xxxadultstars.com/eureka/

GAYEUREKA!
The gay  newsletter is now  available.  You can get it here!
Gay Eureka! ----------> http://eureka.abc-web.com/gayeureka/

EUREKA! TRANSLATIONS
As well as English you can now choose any of these languages
DEUTSCH ------> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/deutsch.htm
ESPAŃOL ------> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/espanol.htm
FRANÇAIS ----> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/francais.htm
ITALIANO ----> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/italiano.htm
PORTUGUESE > http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/portuguese.htm

TODAY'S FREE PIX
Pic  1 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?220
Pic  2 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?221
Pic  3 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?222
Pic  4 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?223
Pic  5 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?224
Pic  6 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?225
Pic  7 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?226
Pic  8 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?227
Pic  9 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?228
Pic 10 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?229

============================================================
TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS NEWSLETTER,  USE THE REPLY FUNCTION
IN YOUR EMAIL PROGRAM, AND SEND THIS EMAIL RIGHT BACK TO US.
============================================================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: trump7@foursssst.com
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 22:21:09 -0800 (PST)
To: you2@internet-wide.com
Subject: Your e-mail sent to me by mistake
Message-ID: <193745610998.DJT09635@twosst.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Did you know that as many as 70% of all Americans have 
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ARE YOU ONE OF THE MILLIONS OF 
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===========================================
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===========================================


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1)  Get a pen and piece of paper ready to write down an 
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2)  Call 1-900-448-8901.
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The information supplied in the "Insiders Guide to Credit 
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If you have received this e-mail solicitation and live outside 
the United States of America, please accept our apology 
and disregard this message.  Thank you.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: hoilu46@concentric.net
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 22:35:06 -0800 (PST)
To: hoilu46@concentric.net
Subject: Hi !!!
Message-ID: <199801224407XAA38296@post.172.112.2>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hi baby, I'm Christy.

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Call us at, 011-378-656-346. That's 011-378-656-346!!

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International rates apply. You be 18 or older to use this service.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 59528925@aol.com
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 00:29:44 -0800 (PST)
To: It'sTheLease@WeCanDo.com
Subject: NEED A BRAND NEW CAR???
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: n@n.com
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 15:21:18 -0800 (PST)
To: n@n.com
Subject: Free Hot Talk
Message-ID: <199801222323.AAA07600@mx1.polbox.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
If you wish to be removed from this advertiser's future mailings, please reply to:
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////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem 
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 00:24:44 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown
Message-ID: <199801230824.DAA08829@chemistry.mps.ohio-state.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

The original message was received at Fri, 23 Jan 1998 03:24:38 -0500 (EST)
from ts26-15.homenet.ohio-state.edu [140.254.114.54]

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----


   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
... while talking to eureka.abc-web.com.:
>>> RCPT To:
<<< 553 sorry, your envelope sender is in my badmailfrom list (#5.7.1)
550 ... User unknown


Reporting-MTA: dns; chemistry.mps.ohio-state.edu
Received-From-MTA: DNS; ts26-15.homenet.ohio-state.edu
Arrival-Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 03:24:38 -0500 (EST)

Final-Recipient: RFC822; eureka-unsubscribe@eureka.abc-web.com
Action: failed
Status: 5.1.1
Remote-MTA: DNS; eureka.abc-web.com
Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 553 sorry, your envelope sender is in my badmailfrom list (#5.7.1)
Last-Attempt-Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 03:24:40 -0500 (EST)


To: eureka-unsubscribe@eureka.abc-web.com
Subject: (no subject)
From: cypherpunks@toad.com
Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 00:04:05 -0800





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: eureka@eureka.abc-web.com
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 08:59:26 -0800 (PST)
To: All Eureka! Subscribers: ;
Subject: Eureka! Fri Jan 23 '98
Message-ID: <19980123082849.6473.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Welcome to Friday's issue of Eureka!

HARD CITY
Ouch -  you bet  it's hard.  What is?  Stupid question!  One
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PLEASE VISIT THIS FINE EUREKA! PARTNER SITE
THE ULTIMATE HARDCORE SITES
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XXXTASY ISLAND
Cum on vacation to  XXXtasy island!  You'll get  a very warm
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AWESOME XXX
A nice spread  of free pix to choose from.  A cool site with
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SEX UTOPIA
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FREE STREAMING VIDEO
Please note that most of these feeds require a Netscape bro-
wser in order to successfully view them. Unfortunately Micr-
osoft's browser does not have all the features of Netscape's
yet.  However, many of the feeds use the RealPlayer and will
work in most browsers.  If you do not have Netscape and want
a free copy click here --> http://www.netscape.com/download/
Teenage lesbian .. http://207.240.169.120/lesbian/start.html

CHAT WITH OTHER READERS
This chat is growing fast, and already there are a number of
regulars  you will meet most days.  It's good to see Eureka!
readers interacting with each other and having a great time!
Adult/Sex Chat -----------------> http://137.39.63.229/chat/
General/Fun Chat -------> http://137.39.63.229/chat/funchat/

THE BEST PHONE SEX
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AMATEUR SITE OF THE DAY
ALLISON: Big-Boobs, Huge Tits. This  girl  is built like the
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a hot body, but she is  a  real sweetheart and her eyes will
mesmerize you!
---------------------------> http://amateurindex.com/eureka/

EROTIC STORY SITE OF THE DAY
HotStories.com: Tired of all  those  pics?  Hot Stories lets
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DAILY CARTOON ----------> http://www.erosinorbit.com/eureka/

ADULT STAR PIC OF THE DAY
Every day  we bring you an exclusive  choice pic of a famous
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GAYEUREKA!
The gay  newsletter is now  available.  You can get it here!
Gay Eureka! ----------> http://eureka.abc-web.com/gayeureka/

EUREKA! TRANSLATIONS
As well as English you can now choose any of these languages
DEUTSCH ------> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/deutsch.htm
ESPAŃOL ------> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/espanol.htm
FRANÇAIS ----> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/francais.htm
ITALIANO ----> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/italiano.htm
PORTUGUESE > http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/portuguese.htm

TODAY'S FREE PIX
Pic  1 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?230
Pic  2 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?231
Pic  3 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?232
Pic  4 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?233
Pic  5 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?234
Pic  6 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?235
Pic  7 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?236
Pic  8 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?237
Pic  9 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?238
Pic 10 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?239

============================================================
TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS NEWSLETTER,  USE THE REPLY FUNCTION
IN YOUR EMAIL PROGRAM, AND SEND THIS EMAIL RIGHT BACK TO US.
============================================================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: RPK New Zealand Ltd 
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 15:28:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Announcement: RPK InvisiMail released on 12 Jan, 1998
Message-ID: <199801232310.PAA11330@proxy4.ba.best.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


You have received this message because at some time during the past two years you have requested to be put on the RPK New Zealand Ltd. company mailing list.  (We're the Fast Public Key Encryption company).  If you wish to be removed from the list, please forward this message to remove@rpkusa.com

--------------------------------

RPK New Zealand Ltd. in a joint venture with Virtually Online Ltd. has released RPK InvisiMail, a standards-based e-mail security application for use with Internet mail software (SMTP/POP3).  The product offers the strongest encryption available anywhere in the world.  Since it was built outside the United States, it is also available all over the world with strong encryption.  RPK InvisiMail is also the easiest product of its type to setup and use which makes it quite unique.

You can learn more about this product by reading the press release below or by visiting the web site at www.InvisiMail.com.  We are also offering FREE downloads of the RPK InvisiMail Intro product.  Please give it a try and pass it along to anyone you like.

--------------------------------

For Immediate Release

Contact:	Sal Cataldi, Cataldi PR +1 212.941.9464, scataldi@earthlink.net, www.InvisiMail.com

RPK InvisiMail(tm), secure Internet e-mail with globally available strong encryption for Microsoft, Netscape platforms
 
SAN FRANCISCO, Jan. 12, 1998 - InvisiMail Ltd (www.InvisiMail.com) announced today immediate worldwide availability of RPK(tm) InvisiMail(tm), a standards-based e-mail security add-in for Microsoft, Netscape and other POP3/SMTP Internet e-mail clients and gateway servers.  Tested and certified by the International Computer Security Association (www.ncsa.com), RPK InvisiMail automatically and transparently encrypts e-mail messages and attachments, authenticates the sender and verifies the contents of each message have not been changed in transit.

RPK InvisiMail is globally available with high strength encryption.  InvisiMail and the underlying RPK encryption algorithm were developed outside the United States.  Therefore, InvisiMail is not subject to restrictive U.S. export policies.  RPK InvisiMail is as easy to set up and use as anti-virus software, and just as important.  

While Microsoft and Netscape battle each other with incompatible and difficult to use security offerings, InvisiMail seamlessly integrates with ALL popular POP3/SMTP e-mail products including Netscape, Microsoft, Eudora, Pegasus, Calypso -- more than any other solution available today -- making it the preferred e-mail security product for multi-platform use, worldwide. 

All InvisiMail users can send the FREE InvisiMail Intro version to anyone worldwide, providing compatibility without requiring others to purchase anything, making InvisiMail unique among 
e-mail security offerings.

"Most people don't realize that their e-mail can be forged, altered or read by anyone, any time, without any evidence," said Jack Oswald, President and CEO of RPK Ltd.  "Without products like RPK InvisiMail, communications on the Internet are untrustworthy."

InvisiMail uses the RPK Fast Public Key Encryptonite(tm) Engine, the strongest cryptography available worldwide today.  RPK is dramatically faster than the well-known RSA algorithm, yet just as secure.  RPK has been analyzed by world class cryptographers who have issued reports on the security and integrity of the technology.

"InvisiMail is the easiest, fastest, most transparent e-mail security product I have seen," said Kevin Shannon, President of net*Gain, a specialist in launching Internet companies. "This is the product we've all been waiting for." 

As part of its official launch, InvisiMail Professional is available FREE to all New Zealand residents for ninety days.

RPK InvisiMail is available in two desktop versions: Intro (FREE) and Professional (introductory price $29.95).  RPK InvisiMail Enterprise Gateway Server will be available Q2 1998.  InvisiMail can be downloaded from: www.InvisiMail.com.

All trademarks and registered trademarks are those of their respective companies.

***





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 0000000@hotmail.com
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 21:09:04 -0800 (PST)
To: Everyone@the.net
Subject: Free Internet Service
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Fellow Networker,

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: eureka@eureka.abc-web.com
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 04:30:38 -0800 (PST)
To: All Eureka! Subscribers: ;
Subject: Eureka! Sat Jan 24 '98
Message-ID: <19980124083515.10769.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Welcome to Saturday's issue of Eureka!

KARA'S ADULT PLAYGROUND
With 15 live sex shows, 1,300 Hardcore XXX videos, 1,000s of
Hardcore  and Softcore  Pix,  the  VaVoom  monthly magazine,
Kara's  exclusive monthly centrefolds,  adult games,  erotic
stories  and even casino  and sports  betting,  you won't be
going out for weeks particularly now that you can get a FREE
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Kara's Playground ...... http://www.rjbtelcom.com/eplay.html

PLEASE VISIT THIS FINE EUREKA! PARTNER SITE
Premiere Porn Pics Vault
http://www.premierepics.com/index.htm
Featuring the best collection of SUPER HIGH QUALITY CUSTOM
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ZAP'S POWER PORNO
Zap's got the power.  The power to make you drool. Get horny
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Zap's Power Porno .............. http://www.slutbox.com/zap/

3 WAY TRAFFIC
Nancy's got a site for sore eyes.  If you've ever fantasised
about getting naked with  two horny lovers then come see how
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way stories from real chatters, and an orgy of hardcore pix.
A themed site presented using imagination,  style, and horn!
3 Way RTraffic .......... http://209.50.232.194/3waytraffic/

BIG BOOBS AND BLOW JOBS
Dive into this  double trouble jumbo jug site.  It's a great
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Big Boobs and Blow Jobs ....... http://www.waid.com.au/suck/

BETTY'S HOT PICS
Betty's hot. Every day she proves it.  Go see your welcoming
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straight, and gay.  Betty's storytime makes bedtimes better.
Betty's Hot Pics ........... http://bettyspics.sexshaft.com/

FREE STREAMING VIDEO
Please note that most of these feeds require a Netscape bro-
wser in order to successfully view them. Unfortunately Micr-
osoft's browser does not have all the features of Netscape's
yet.  However, many of the feeds use the RealPlayer and will
work in most browsers.  If you do not have Netscape and want
a free copy click here --> http://www.netscape.com/download/
Three dicks .................... http://207.168.184.26/trip/

CHAT WITH OTHER READERS
This chat is growing fast, and already there are a number of
regulars  you will meet most days.  It's good to see Eureka!
readers interacting with each other and having a great time!
Adult/Sex Chat -----------------> http://137.39.63.229/chat/
General/Fun Chat -------> http://137.39.63.229/chat/funchat/

THE BEST PHONE SEX
NEW!!!! LD Call only! - Live Hot Girls!!!!--->1-664-410-3912
LIVE: 1-on-1, 2-on-1, Group, Dateline-------->1-800-644-8779
FREE: Live 1-on-1 (international call only)--->011-678-77416

AMATEUR SITE OF THE DAY
JANES' JUNGLE: Auuugggghhhh stop by and see why Tarzan never
left the jungle! The  website's  theme  is fantastic as Jane
leads you through her Jungle  of  Love. With Jane's fabulous
breasts, you  will  be  beating  something  other  than your
chest, right Tarzan?
---------------------------> http://amateurindex.com/eureka/

EROTIC STORY SITE OF THE DAY
Planet Mojo: Mojo  brings  you  the  juiciest erotic stories
weekly! Every  week  all  new  exciting  erotic  stories are
posted for your pleasure. Visit Mojo today! ................
................................. http://www.planetmojo.com/

DAILY CARTOON ----------> http://www.erosinorbit.com/eureka/

ADULT STAR PIC OF THE DAY
Every day  we bring you an exclusive  choice pic of a famous
adult porn star.  And we must tell you - these pix are abso-
luletly brilliant! ---> http://www.xxxadultstars.com/eureka/

GAYEUREKA!
The gay  newsletter is now  available.  You can get it here!
Gay Eureka! ----------> http://eureka.abc-web.com/gayeureka/

EUREKA! TRANSLATIONS
As well as English you can now choose any of these languages
DEUTSCH ------> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/deutsch.htm
ESPAŃOL ------> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/espanol.htm
FRANÇAIS ----> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/francais.htm
ITALIANO ----> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/italiano.htm
PORTUGUESE > http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/portuguese.htm

TODAY'S FREE PIX
Pic  1 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?240
Pic  2 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?241
Pic  3 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?242
Pic  4 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?243
Pic  5 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?244
Pic  6 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?245
Pic  7 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?246
Pic  8 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?247
Pic  9 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?248
Pic 10 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?249

============================================================
TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS NEWSLETTER,  USE THE REPLY FUNCTION
IN YOUR EMAIL PROGRAM, AND SEND THIS EMAIL RIGHT BACK TO US.
============================================================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: pkmrght193@aol.com
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 11:46:44 -0800 (PST)
To: pkmrght193@aol.com
Subject: SUPER BOWL XXXII PICK
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




    Hello SPORTS FANS!!!!  Wouldn't it feel really great to know exactly
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                                                  Must be 18 or older
P.S.   After you take the bank on Super Bowl Sunday, give us a call
         after 4:00 P.M EST on Monday for TWO winning basketball
         picks.

                                         

 








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Gortega@ix.netcom.com
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 14:10:50 -0800 (PST)
To: test@test93847.com
Subject: .
Message-ID: <17705699_91749677>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: majordomo@bulkemailserver.com
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 16:55:11 -0800 (PST)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: Do you take credit cards ?
Message-ID: <199801242343.SAA05330@ix.gen.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


       Can you say "yes I accept credit cards"?  If you can't  but want to, I can help! For as
little as $295 or lease a system for as low as $16 per month you can have 
all the advantages of accepting credit cards. 
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Lowest discount rate in the industry, Fast approval, 24 hour a day helpline
VISA-MASTERCARD-DISCOVER-AMERICAN EXPRESS put them to work for YOU!
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                       Get started for as little as $20
All types of business accepted
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            at     1-215-470-8034   anytime

Tell me your name, type of business, expected credit card volume , phone and fax number your 
       
           Isn"t it time your business got an advantage?















From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: MAILER-DAEMON@toad.com
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 03:56:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Happy New year, Don't Miss Out!
Message-ID: <199801250016.SAA06048@mail.t-1net.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I will pay you $20,000.00 if you can prove me wrong!
Work one or both of my home business opportunities
and you will make money.

SIMPLE, PROVEN, EASY TO UNDERSTAND OPPORTUNITIES.
Looking for 150 serious people who want to make money.

Interested?
If YES: call: 330-722-1813

This is a serious offer. No MLM United States
Direct with National Manufacturer.

Absolutly FREE Information will be provided !
Absolutly NO OBLIGATION to receive FREE info!




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: eureka@eureka.abc-web.com
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 01:30:00 -0800 (PST)
To: All Eureka! Subscribers: ;
Subject: Eureka! Sun Jan 25 '98
Message-ID: <19980125082106.5338.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Welcome to Sunday's issue of Eureka!

PINKBITS
Voted the  #1 Teen (18+) site  on the web,  this is  one pay
site you  don't want  to miss out on!  Here's just one quote
from a satisfied member:  "This site delivers awesome value.
I have been a member of 3 other sites,  and this is the best
by far. It has the best pics, more live video, younger girls
and more  hardcore cumshots  than the  other sites  put tog-
ether".  And we have negotiated a special FREE trial member-
ship for Eureka subscribers, so don't take our word, go see!
PinkBits .. http://207.33.10.198/cgi-bin/gate1/pbm/pb_0024/0

PLEASE VISIT THIS FINE EUREKA! PARTNER SITE
Fuck it! You wanna Cum Inside!!! Nonstop Amazing Fuck Fest & Virtual Orgy
http://www.cuminside.com
Members Only Club offering the BEST PORN and SEX on the
INTERNET
with FREE LIVE VIDEOS, FREE STRIP SHOWS, hardcore
closeup pussy, cock and ass shots, MPEGS and many more bonus
features!

THE ROSE GARDEN
They're delicate as a flower but hard and nasty as they come
The girls at Rose Garden  get dirty in  the flower  beds for
you.  There's plenty of choice,  and plenty of daily updates
at this site.  With bikinis,  nudies or  hardcore pix of the
day.  Plus  a  shovelful of  free pix.  Blooming marvellous.
Rose Garden .. http://www.undergroundnet.com/rosegarden.html

STUDMONKEY'S OBSESSIONS
Go ape over Studmonkey's anal and lesbian hardcore galleries
Mr Pink and the  Studmonkey love  peachy,  girly, gloriously
tight  young butts.  To look at and to lick at.  If you love
the female form come see why  mankind is still on all fours.
Studmonkey ...................... http://www.studmonkey.com/

SUCKFLIX HARDCORE GALLERY
These pix don't suck. But some of the girls do!  Nicely laid
out,  Suckflix has got a  good variety of  nasty pix for the
lover of  facials,  fetish,  outdoor,  tits,  and just about
anything else.  Suckflix  gets  you  straight  to  the smut!
Suckflix .............. http://www.suckflix.com/freepix.html

TEXAS TANTRUM
Don't pout, don't blow your top.  Texas Tantrum soothes your
woes - with hardcore pix. Simple but effective. You get in a
tantrum here and you'll be spanked and tied up.  They've got
the pix to prove it.  There's no if's  just plenty of butts.
Surf there now young lady or you'll feel the back of my hand
Texas Tantrum ................. http://www.texastantrum.com/

BRAND NEW - HOORAY! THE ADULT SEARCH ENGINE
Now adult surfers have our very own search engine,  directly
designed to  only list adult sites,  and so run fast because
all other  types of site  are ignored.  Check it out  today!
Hooray! -----------------> http://eureka.abc-web.com/hooray/

FREE STREAMING VIDEO
Please note that most of these feeds require a Netscape bro-
wser in order to successfully view them. Unfortunately Micr-
osoft's browser does not have all the features of Netscape's
yet.  However, many of the feeds use the RealPlayer and will
work in most browsers.  If you do not have Netscape and want
a free copy click here --> http://www.netscape.com/download/
Pregnant ....................... http://207.168.184.26/preg/

CHAT WITH OTHER READERS
This chat is growing fast, and already there are a number of
regulars  you will meet most days.  It's good to see Eureka!
readers interacting with each other and having a great time!
Adult/Sex Chat -----------------> http://137.39.63.229/chat/
General/Fun Chat -------> http://137.39.63.229/chat/funchat/

THE BEST PHONE SEX
NEW!!!! LD Call only! - Live Hot Girls!!!!--->1-664-410-3912
LIVE: 1-on-1, 2-on-1, Group, Dateline-------->1-800-644-8779
FREE: Live 1-on-1 (international call only)--->011-678-77416

AMATEUR SITE OF THE DAY
VANESSA: A sexy young brunette  with  an incredible ass, you
will fall in lust the minute  you  lay your eyes on Vanessa.
Her site is easy to navigate and full of thumbnails and high
resolution pictures. Stop  by  and  say  hi  to  one  of the
internet's newest vixens!
---------------------------> http://amateurindex.com/eureka/

EROTIC STORY SITE OF THE DAY
StoriesAndPics.com: StoriesAndPics.com gives you the best of
both worlds. Visit the site Yahoo calls "The Ultimate Erotic
Stories Site" Over  50  categories  of  sex  stories and XXX
pics! ....................... http://www.storiesandpics.com/

DAILY CARTOON ----------> http://www.erosinorbit.com/eureka/

ADULT STAR PIC OF THE DAY
Every day  we bring you an exclusive  choice pic of a famous
adult porn star.  And we must tell you - these pix are abso-
luletly brilliant! ---> http://www.xxxadultstars.com/eureka/

GAYEUREKA!
The gay  newsletter is now  available.  You can get it here!
Gay Eureka! ----------> http://eureka.abc-web.com/gayeureka/

EUREKA! TRANSLATIONS
As well as English you can now choose any of these languages
DEUTSCH ------> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/deutsch.htm
ESPAŃOL ------> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/espanol.htm
FRANÇAIS ----> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/francais.htm
ITALIANO ----> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/italiano.htm
PORTUGUESE > http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/portuguese.htm

TODAY'S FREE PIX
Pic  1 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?250
Pic  2 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?251
Pic  3 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?252
Pic  4 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?253
Pic  5 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?254
Pic  6 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?255
Pic  7 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?256
Pic  8 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?257
Pic  9 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?258
Pic 10 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?259

============================================================
TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS NEWSLETTER,  USE THE REPLY FUNCTION
IN YOUR EMAIL PROGRAM, AND SEND THIS EMAIL RIGHT BACK TO US.
============================================================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: sender1998@aol.com
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 18:49:55 -0800 (PST)
To: User@aol.com
Subject: I just mailed you a check ...
Message-ID: <.>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


          I just mailed you a check ...

How many times have you heard that from a customer?

NOW YOU CAN TAKE CHECKS BY PHONE - FAX - or - INTERNET
and deposit the funds into your bank the same day! 

That's right, using CheckWriter, you can take a customer's 
check by phone-fax-email or internet form, and deposit
it into any U.S. bank the same day - Best of all it is 
TOTALLY FREE !!!  Once you own the software.

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**************************************************************************
This mailing was sent by RCS Promotions on behalf of Instantpc. RCS obtained your name by purchasing a list of addresses targeted towards business customers. RCS has no affiliation with InstantPC other than to provide a mailing service. If you feel you have received this message in error please click on the remove hyperlink or call RCS directly at 617-892-4191. Click here to remove <---put your e mail address  in subj. line !





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: MAILER-DAEMON@toad.com
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 16:46:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Liquidation
Message-ID: <199801260457.WAA04312@quick.notfalse.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Forwarding this message to you because I thought the following 3 items would be
of real interest to you.

I wanted to get it out to you ASAP. This information is only going to be
available for a few more days. Deal is, right now, you can get still it for 
free.

Here is what you can get:

1) The contact names and private phone number of a company that is PAYING CASH
for unwanted used material handling equipment.

This company is one of the largest used equipment BUYERS in the nation and even
pays finders fees.

2) Wouldn't it be nice to save as much as 80% on items you're probably buying at
full retail currently? 


We've uncovered the Web address to one of the Internet's top  "Liquidation
Specials of the Month" web site .
Now you'll have the insider's track on buying at wholesale like the pros do.

It's really a cool site! 
But don't take my word for it, check it out for yourself.

3) Get the #1 hottest material handling product catalog on the market today.

No, I'm not exaggerating. This catalog has everything you could possibly want
and they offer new, used or reconditioned items that almost every business uses
each and every day.
 

All the information, the catalog, the names, phone numbers, contacts in one
complete package . You don't even pay postage!

************************************************************************

So how can you take advantage of this risk free offer? 
It's as easy as 1-2-3, here is all you have to do:

Step 1)

Simply call the " Equipment Buyers Guide" at 205-941-4795 
Monday-Friday during regular business hours.    
This offer is ending Friday.  Seriously gang, don't delay.

Step 2)

Tell them you want the "INSIDERS BUYING GUIDE PACKAGE #32" sent to you
immediately.
 
(Make sure you stress you want "PACKAGE #32" as this is the BIG package
 which includes all the key numbers and names .)

Step #3)

After we get the proper mailing information, you'll see it in a day or two!

I know this package will save you and your company hundreds, maybe even 
thousands of dollars.Pick up the phone now and get the INSIDERS BUYERS GUIDE
PACK #32 sent to you now.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
If this message is of no interest to you it is not necessary to reply for
"removal" This is a one time mailing of a very limited offer and 
WILL NOT be sent again.
------------------------------------------------------------------------





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: MAILER-DAEMON@toad.com
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 03:50:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: 145 Million
Message-ID: <199801260540.XAA10977@mail.t-1net.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Removal instructions below.

If someone with an 8th grade education can make a personal 
fortune of $145 million in network marketing with herbs, 
why can't you?  Especially when this person has just decided 
to come out of retirement to launch an upstart company, 
marketing products that were used by the Russians to win all 
those gold medals at the Olympic Games.  With more scientific 
research than anything else on the market, it's no wonder why 
so many doctors are joining our company and offering these 
products to their patients.

Why not do something different to change your life?  Join in 
with the person who knows how to make things happen big and 
fast.  He has just joined our company and is willing to help 
you learn how to 'set yourself free'.

Someday maybe you can throw the alarm clock out the window.  
For good.

For additional information, please check out the following:
http://www.prime-1.com

Thanks


For guaranteed removal call 1-800-555-9205, ext. 3256,
24 hours a day. 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: eureka@eureka.abc-web.com
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 05:41:05 -0800 (PST)
To: All Eureka! Subscribers: ;
Subject: Eureka! Mon Jan 26 '98
Message-ID: <19980126083738.25634.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Welcome to Monday's issue of Eureka!

PUSSY PARADISE
Yet again Eureka! has managed  to negotiate a special week's
free access  to one of the web' s premier porn sites.  Pussy
Paradise is simply  packed with 100s  of videos (many live),
thousands of photos,  and so much more.  You will  need your
credit card as adult verification but it will not be charged
for your free week! So check it out - there's smut a plenty!
Pussy Paradise .... http://www.pussyparadise.com/eureka.html

PLEASE VISIT THIS FINE EUREKA! PARTNER SITE
The Babe Experience!
http://www.unitedadultsites.com/freesex
Hot site featuring babe pictures, and I mean really
beautiful babe pictures. Also hot phonesex, video and audio
feeds!

UTOPIAN FILTH
Pretty girls get down dirty.  The  horny harlots take you by
the hand and take you  on a tour  of their own  carnal lust.
See their pics,  see their hot bodies entwined.  Clean site,
filthy content.  Nice girls. (When can we shower with them)!
Utopian Filth .......... http://www.firstsightimages.com/uf/

4 BOOBS
It's  not just  for  boob lovers. It's  for  asian, bondage,
group, lesbian, and toy lovers to name just a few. It's easy
to access the different categories, to get to what turns you
on. Plenty of pix, busty boobs included.  Go milk this site.
4 Boobs ............................. http://www.4boobs.com/

CANDID CAMERA
Smile. You're naked, fornicating, and on Candid Camera. This
site would sure be a  ratings  winner if they brought the TV
show back with this  kind of content.  Get your kicks spying
on unsuspecting  chicks with their tits and bits out?  You'd
better believe it.  These  babes  are  surprised  and naked!
Candid Camera ................... http://www.dragonking.com/

FABULOUS FEMALES
Spend some time with  these fabulous females. They've got no
clothes on,  no inhibitions,  and know how to get you horny.
These girls are stunning enough to hold your rigid attention
as you check out their raw strip pix.  Hot site.  Hot girls!
Fabulous Females ................... http://www.sexhost.net/

BRAND NEW - HOORAY! THE ADULT SEARCH ENGINE
Now adult surfers have our very own search engine,  directly
designed to  only list adult sites,  and so run fast because
all other  types of site  are ignored.  Check it out  today!
Hooray! -----------------> http://eureka.abc-web.com/hooray/

FREE STREAMING VIDEO
Please note that most of these feeds require a Netscape bro-
wser in order to successfully view them. Unfortunately Micr-
osoft's browser does not have all the features of Netscape's
yet.  However, many of the feeds use the RealPlayer and will
work in most browsers.  If you do not have Netscape and want
a free copy click here --> http://www.netscape.com/download/
20vids+Chat .. http://209.1.31.175/chat/videochat.cgi?eureka

CHAT WITH OTHER READERS
This chat is growing fast, and already there are a number of
regulars  you will meet most days.  It's good to see Eureka!
readers interacting with each other and having a great time!
Adult/Sex Chat -----------------> http://137.39.63.229/chat/
General/Fun Chat -------> http://137.39.63.229/chat/funchat/

THE BEST PHONE SEX
NEW!!!! LD Call only! - Live Hot Girls!!!!--->1-664-410-3912
LIVE: 1-on-1, 2-on-1, Group, Dateline-------->1-800-644-8779
FREE: Live 1-on-1 (international call only)--->011-678-77416

AMATEUR SITE OF THE DAY
MISTY SEX: This sexy lady is from jolly England. Her site is
full of bare ass pictures, kinky  AVIs and nasty wave files.
Her accent will give anyone a  quick  boner! This gal is one
hot commodity, jump on her soon, what could be better than a
little FISH & chips?
---------------------------> http://amateurindex.com/eureka/

EROTIC STORY SITE OF THE DAY
TeenStories.com: Dozens of  steamy  sex  stories  about teen
sexual experiences! This site is as  hot as they come! Visit
TeenStories.com today! ......... http://www.teenstories.com/

DAILY CARTOON ----------> http://www.erosinorbit.com/eureka/

ADULT STAR PIC OF THE DAY
Every day  we bring you an exclusive  choice pic of a famous
adult porn star.  And we must tell you - these pix are abso-
luletly brilliant! ---> http://www.xxxadultstars.com/eureka/

GAYEUREKA!
The gay  newsletter is now  available.  You can get it here!
Gay Eureka! ----------> http://eureka.abc-web.com/gayeureka/

EUREKA! TRANSLATIONS
As well as English you can now choose any of these languages
DEUTSCH ------> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/deutsch.htm
ESPAŃOL ------> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/espanol.htm
FRANÇAIS ----> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/francais.htm
ITALIANO ----> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/italiano.htm
PORTUGUESE > http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/portuguese.htm

TODAY'S FREE PIX
Pic  1 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?260
Pic  2 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?261
Pic  3 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?262
Pic  4 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?263
Pic  5 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?264
Pic  6 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?265
Pic  7 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?266
Pic  8 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?267
Pic  9 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?268
Pic 10 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?269

============================================================
TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS NEWSLETTER,  USE THE REPLY FUNCTION
IN YOUR EMAIL PROGRAM, AND SEND THIS EMAIL RIGHT BACK TO US.
============================================================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: eureka@eureka.abc-web.com
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 10:19:47 -0800 (PST)
To: All Eureka! Subscribers: ;
Subject: Eureka! Tue Jan 27 '98
Message-ID: <19980127083701.9129.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Welcome to Tuesday's issue of Eureka!

FRESHTEENS!
Is there no end to it? Yet again we have succeeded in obtai-
ning a FREE one week trial,  for all Eureka!  subscribers at
another of the net's finest websites. Freshteens offers over
200 video feeds, hot live,  sex shows,  hard XXX movies, hot
XXX stories,  exclusive Texas Teens, and a comprehensive gay
area too. You need a credit card to verify you are an adult,
but will not be charged for your FREE membership. Excellent!
Freshteens ........... http://www.freshteens.com/cproot/1217

PLEASE VISIT THIS FINE EUREKA! PARTNER SITE
Teen Panties and Masturbation
http://www.yiws.com/a&axxx/warn.htm
Over 200 hot amateur teen pictures showing their panties and
pussy. These hot real amateur pictures are updated daily.
Voted number 2 top teen site on the net 1997.

PHUCK IT
Dedicated to  bringing you a wad  of pumping porn. Give this
man a cigar. There's  plenty of  general depravity  going on
with some really  gorgeous gals  getting serviced hard,  and
enjoying it. Oooh yes. It's not just a smile that's all over
their faces. The girls are hot. Make sure you hose them down
Phuck It ........................... http://www.phuckit.com/

ANIME ZONE
XXX cartoon vixens of the Japanese  doe-eyed,  big breasted,
sure to  sharpen your pencil  variety.  This is  a colourful
site with a  fist full  of free pix  from artists with minds
even dirtier than ours.. Tawdry 'toons are stripped for you.
Anime Zone ............................ http://207.36.65.47/

BIZARRE XXX IMAGES
It's bizarre - you might see triple breasted women. It's XXX
- bottles of beer  and  vegetables are  sure to be swallowed
whole and up close. It's your illustrated photo guide to all
things  jaw-slackeningly odd,  and pant-tighteningly  horny.
Bizarre XXX Images ...... http://www.wawawa.com/bizarre.html

LABORATORY OF PORN
Come on in.  The Mad Scientist awaits you.  He's mixing up a
potion to get your hand in motion. This site's a lot of fun,
and it's not difficult to get to the bottom of it.  Drink in
the elixir of lust  -  amateur,  lesbian, hardcore and more!
Laboratory Of Porn ....... http://209.139.56.98/warning.html

BRAND NEW - HOORAY! THE ADULT SEARCH ENGINE
Now adult surfers have our very own search engine,  directly
designed to  only list adult sites,  and so run fast because
all other  types of site  are ignored.  Check it out  today!
Hooray! -----------------> http://eureka.abc-web.com/hooray/

FREE STREAMING VIDEO
Please note that most of these feeds require a Netscape bro-
wser in order to successfully view them. Unfortunately Micr-
osoft's browser does not have all the features of Netscape's
yet.  However, many of the feeds use the RealPlayer and will
work in most browsers.  If you do not have Netscape and want
a free copy click here --> http://www.netscape.com/download/
20vids+Chat -> http://209.1.31.175/chat/videochat.cgi?eureka

CHAT WITH OTHER READERS
This chat is growing fast, and already there are a number of
regulars  you will meet most days.  It's good to see Eureka!
readers interacting with each other and having a great time!
Adult/Sex Chat -----------------> http://137.39.63.229/chat/
General/Fun Chat -------> http://137.39.63.229/chat/funchat/

THE BEST PHONE SEX
NEW!!!! LD Call only! - Live Hot Girls!!!!--->1-664-410-3912
LIVE: 1-on-1, 2-on-1, Group, Dateline-------->1-800-644-8779
FREE: Live 1-on-1 (international call only)--->011-678-77416

AMATEUR SITE OF THE DAY
PANTY GIRL: For all of you  panty aficionados this site is a
must see. Panty girl models  a  huge  variety of panties, g-
strings, thongs, full back undies,  silk, cotton you name it
she wears them. The best part  is, they are all soaking wet!
That is our favorite kind!
---------------------------> http://amateurindex.com/eureka/

EROTIC STORY SITE OF THE DAY
The Top 50 Erotic  Stories  Sites:  Only the highest quality
erotic stories sites are listed  here. No nonsence. Just top
notch totally free free erotic stories sites................
........................... http://www.xxxstories.com/top50/

DAILY CARTOON ----------> http://www.erosinorbit.com/eureka/

ADULT STAR PIC OF THE DAY
Every day  we bring you an exclusive  choice pic of a famous
adult porn star.  And we must tell you - these pix are abso-
luletly brilliant! ---> http://www.xxxadultstars.com/eureka/

GAYEUREKA!
The gay  newsletter is now  available.  You can get it here!
Gay Eureka! ----------> http://eureka.abc-web.com/gayeureka/

EUREKA! TRANSLATIONS
As well as English you can now choose any of these languages
DEUTSCH ------> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/deutsch.htm
ESPAŃOL ------> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/espanol.htm
FRANÇAIS ----> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/francais.htm
ITALIANO ----> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/italiano.htm
PORTUGUESE > http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/portuguese.htm

TODAY'S FREE PIX
Pic  1 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?270
Pic  2 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?271
Pic  3 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?272
Pic  4 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?273
Pic  5 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?274
Pic  6 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?275
Pic  7 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?276
Pic  8 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?277
Pic  9 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?278
Pic 10 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?279

============================================================
TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS NEWSLETTER,  USE THE REPLY FUNCTION
IN YOUR EMAIL PROGRAM, AND SEND THIS EMAIL RIGHT BACK TO US.
============================================================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: kozmo killah 
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 16:29:03 -0800 (PST)
To: InSupport@four11.com
Subject: Re: Response to ticket 012398-6918-403
Message-ID: <19980128002852.16393.rocketmail@send1c.yahoomail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/html






---InSupport@four11.com wrote:
>
> 
> 
> In response to : 
> 
> 01/23/98-16:40
> 
> Received: from support.four11.com (mail.four11.com [205.180.57.45]) by
> papa.four11.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id QAA06913 for
> ; Fri, 23 Jan 1998 16:40:19 -0800
> (PST)
> Received: from mta-1a.yahoomail.com (mta-1a.yahoomail.com
> [205.180.60.10]) by support.four11.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id
> QAA08937 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 1998 16:17:02
> -0800 (PST)
> Delivered-To: yahoo.com-abuse@yahoo.com
> Received: from kalypso.iqm.unicamp.br (143.106.51.1)
>   by mta-1a.yahoomail.com with SMTP; 23 Jan 1998 15:51:15 -0800
> Received: (from vazquez@localhost) 
>            by kalypso.iqm.unicamp.br (8.8.8/8.7.3/FreeBSD/2.1.5) id
> VAA11253 
>            for abuse@yahoo.com; Fri, 23 Jan 1998 21:54:11 -0200 (EDT)
> Received: (from sma@localhost) 
>  
> [ Removed... ]
> 
> 
> -----------------------------------------------
> 
> Hello Yahoo! Mail User,
> 
> 
> We have received your message regarding report number 012398-6918-403.
> We are currently investigating the problem. As soon as we have a
> solution for you, we will contact you via e-mail.
> 
> Thank you for helping us improve and enhance our services. We
> appreciate your participation and feedback.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> The Yahoo! Mail Support Team
> 
DO YOU YAHOO!?Get your free @yahoo.com address at Yahoo! Mail.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: mall@daltek.net
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 16:36:17 -0800 (PST)
To: mall@daltek.net
Subject: Just a Reminder...
Message-ID: <199801272330.RAA04763@cresta.daltek.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


* * * * 
You have been carefully selected to receive the following as a person
obviously interested in this subject based upon your previous internet
postings, or visits to one of our affiliate web sites.  If you have
received this message in error, please accept our apology as a
responsible e-mailer, and reply with the word REMOVE in the subject
line. You will be automatically excluded from future e-mailings. Thank
you for your consideration and help in making the Internet spam-free. 
* * * *

 At your request, we recently sent you our International
 Shopping Mall Complex banner rates for your business.
 
 The following is an update on categories available, and
 several other new options available to fit your expansion plans
 and budget. Please take a look and see what would work best for you.
 We do have a 25% off special introductory offer on our Mini-
 Mirror Store Program, details below.

 PLUS HERE IS SOME EXCITING NEWS..a cutting edge option to be
 offered shortly to our clients. 
 Right now, we are working on adding a program to the Malls 
 that will enable ONLINE PURCHASES TO BE CHARGED TO THE CUSTOMERS' 
 TELEPHONE  BILL. This presents unlimited possibilities for 
 impulse buying, no forms, just click a button...

 Right now, it can be used for items like downloading software,
 and electronic reports and books...But Here is the Big News..it will
 soon be able to work for hard goods!!..Just think about the 
 opportunities here. We will be sending out a full report
 on this in the next week or two in our Client Newsletter.

 Another option available is an item that we can add to your mall
 stores which has proven very successful in increasing sales for any 
 business. We would be glad to send you more information on this,
 just check box below. This has worked well for wholesale, retail,
 manufacturing and is so simple, you will wonder why you haven't
 thought of it before!

 Established in 1994, our award-winning International Shopping
 Complex avgs 1.5 million hits a month in our four
 Mall locations with approx. 300 stores from 29 countries. 
 
 As the Web gets more and more congested, you know that attracting
 qualified buyers to your site gets even more challenging!
 
 You will get tremendous exposure in four shopping locations.
 You could not get a more targeted audience for your products.
 These visitors only come to the Malls to see the shops and are 
 specifically looking in the listed categories for retail, 
 wholesale/mfg or industrial offers.

 The advantages to having four store locations is huge. You will
 get four new URL's to post on all the search engines, and we
 also give you a site address where you can enter each url once only
 and it will automatically send it to 100 directories/search engines,
 giving you 400 new listings right off the bat, (no charge).

 A business that has four or five separate locations definitely 
 establishes you as a serious business. This is the concept
 used by the offline shopping malls that spread from coast to
 coast - new brand names were established and became household
 words.

 What some of our storeowners have accomplished:
 
 One storeowner, after just over a year, grew to 5-figure Internet
 sales, another doubled their sales in just one month, another's
 business grew to over 70% international, an industrial client
 reports great response and sales, wholesalers and mfg. are getting
 distribution for their product lines, another storeowner has built
 a tremendous catalog mail order business, one store introduced a new
 product which started selling the first weekend online...

 Here is what another happy customer wrote last week, on renewing for
 another year with us:
 "You have a great system and it really helps me. You are a valuable and
 indispensable facet of my business."

 CURRENT OPTIONS AND RATES - All rates include installation and 
 ONE FULL YEAR'S RENT - no monthly fees.

 1.MINI-MIRROR SITES - These are very popular for large sites and for
 those who have frequent page updates. We "mirror" (copy) the front
 page of your existing site and install it in the four malls, linking
 back to the rest of your pages. You still have four new URL's. $475.
 SPECIAL THRU FEB.4, 1998...$375.00. (25% Introductory Discount).

 2. NEW! EXCLUSIVE Banner Ads - These are just being offered and some
 categories have already been taken. One banner is offered per
 category directory and includes a " mini-mirror site" also. Inquire
 for availability. $495.00 per category banner, $1500 for all four
 Mall Entrance/ Main Directory also available. Some categories already
 sold out. (See list at end of this message).

 3. FULL MIRROR SITES - If you have an existing site, and want to 
 have four additional full stores in the Malls, we "mirror" (copy)
 your entire, existing site. Again, we have to quote you
 depending on complexity and size, we do also have a size limit.

 4. ORIGINAL STORES - If you do not currently have a web site,
 we can design and install a storefront for you. This is obviously 
 by quote as it depends on how many products, etc. It includes an
 online order form. Basic starts at $795.00. (includes all four locations).

 To receive details on any of the above options, please just 
 fill out the following and email back.  

==========================
I would like information on the Exclusive Banner Ads.
My Product/Service Category is:_____________________ 

Categories: Apparel/Accessories, Arts/Crafts/Antiques, Books/Education,
Collectibles, Home/Garden/Pets, Food, Computer, Cosmetics/Personal Care,
Toys/Games/Hobbies, Health/Fitness, Wholesale/Industrial, Gifts,
Business/Finance, Jewelry, Auto/Boats, Audio/Music/Videos.

SPORTS, TRAVEL, FLOWERS, JEWELRY - ALL FOUR LOCATIONS ARE SOLD OUT
APPAREL, COMPUTER, HEALTH, COSMETICS...3 each still available.
This applies to banners only of course, you can still have mirror
sites in any category.


My http:// is _______________________________

==========================
 I would like a quote on an:
 
 Original Store ( )

 Full Mirror ( ) My Site Address is: http://_________________________

========================
 I am interested in the 25% OFF mini-mirrors SPECIAL INTRODUCTORY
 OFFER, (Note: good thru February 1, 1998 only) My site address is:

 http://_________________________

 Note: We do not accepted x-rated sites.

 ALSO PLEASE CHECK HERE IF YOU WOULD LIKE INFORMATION ON
 THE OPTION MENTIONED IN PARAGRAPH THREE. (  )

Thank you for your interest.
================================================================





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: eureka@eureka.abc-web.com
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 01:19:19 -0800 (PST)
To: All Eureka! Subscribers: ;
Subject: Eureka! Wed Jan 28 '98
Message-ID: <19980128082018.19356.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Welcome to Wednesday's issue of Eureka!

PLAYGAL
This is truly a breathtaking site. Well-designed and easy to
use with  excellent content.  The tour alone has hotter porn
than many other 'free' sites - go see it now. It's explicit,
comprehensive and top quality.  There are 2,000  video feeds
online, free live fucking with sound, 10,000 erotic stories,
1,000s of top quality pix, adult and arcade games, real ama-
teur competitions and much more. Click now and be astounded!
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PLEASE VISIT THIS FINE EUREKA! PARTNER SITE
James And Victoria's Erotic Site
http://www.jamesandvictoria.com/ads/ads.cgi?advert=eureka
Our free site has hundreds of photos, thousands of erotic
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NUMB NUTS
These guys have got  more  than  just  free hot hardcore XXX
pix. A  picture post,  live sex shows and  live chat is just
part of their plans to  get your nuts numb  (thru over use).
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HERMITAGE
There's  plenty  of   thumbnailed   asian  beauties  looking
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pix of pretty girls  in  a  pretty  pink  site. Pretty much,
you'll be sure to fall in love.  The girls  just shine thru!
Hermitage ....... http://www2.gol.com/users/able/nudfot1.htm

HUMPIN AND PUMPIN
Mature women, teen temptresses,  they're  all  coming out of
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Humpin and Pumpin ............ http://www.luvgun.com/pumpin/

PINK LOLLIPOP
There's plenty to suck on  and  see.  With  free XXX pix and
even some  sound  files.  The  web  masters  even  want your
comments to improve it. Hey  boys!  You're  doing a good job
with nice pix, and hot categories.  Keep it up - so will we!
Pink Lollipop ................. http://www.pinklollipop.com/

BRAND NEW - HOORAY! THE ADULT SEARCH ENGINE
Now adult surfers have our very own search engine,  directly
designed to  only list adult sites,  and so run fast because
all other  types of site  are ignored.  Check it out  today!
Hooray! -----------------> http://eureka.abc-web.com/hooray/

FREE STREAMING VIDEO
Please note that most of these feeds require a Netscape bro-
wser in order to successfully view them. Unfortunately Micr-
osoft's browser does not have all the features of Netscape's
yet.  However, many of the feeds use the RealPlayer and will
work in most browsers.  If you do not have Netscape and want
a free copy click here --> http://www.netscape.com/download/
Just 18 -----------------------> http://204.244.215.7/teens/

CHAT WITH OTHER READERS
This chat is growing fast, and already there are a number of
regulars  you will meet most days.  It's good to see Eureka!
readers interacting with each other and having a great time!
Adult/Sex Chat -----------------> http://137.39.63.229/chat/
General/Fun Chat -------> http://137.39.63.229/chat/funchat/

THE BEST PHONE SEX
NEW!!!! LD Call only! - Live Hot Girls!!!!--->1-664-410-3912
LIVE: 1-on-1, 2-on-1, Group, Dateline-------->1-800-644-8779
FREE: Live 1-on-1 (international call only)--->011-678-77416

AMATEUR SITE OF THE DAY
SUMMER: A hot 18  year  old  with  the  body  and  face of a
goddess, Summer is  the  epitome  of  SEX.  Her eyes enchant
everyone she gazes upon. She  also sports a world-class ass,
one of the best on  the  net.  Let  Summer  keep you warm on
these cold winter nights!
---------------------------> http://amateurindex.com/eureka/

EROTIC STORY SITE OF THE DAY
Amateur Women Stories:  AmateurWomen.com  brings you totally
hot true sex stories and  real  pics  of hot amatuer models.
See and read what these hot honeys do in private! ..........
............................... http://www.amateurwomen.com/

DAILY CARTOON ----------> http://www.erosinorbit.com/eureka/

ADULT STAR PIC OF THE DAY
Every day  we bring you an exclusive  choice pic of a famous
adult porn star.  And we must tell you - these pix are abso-
luletly brilliant! ---> http://www.xxxadultstars.com/eureka/

GAYEUREKA!
The gay  newsletter is now  available.  You can get it here!
Gay Eureka! ----------> http://eureka.abc-web.com/gayeureka/

EUREKA! TRANSLATIONS
As well as English you can now choose any of these languages
DEUTSCH ------> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/deutsch.htm
ESPAŃOL ------> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/espanol.htm
FRANÇAIS ----> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/francais.htm
ITALIANO ----> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/italiano.htm
PORTUGUESE > http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/portuguese.htm

TODAY'S FREE PIX
Pic  1 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?280
Pic  2 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?281
Pic  3 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?282
Pic  4 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?283
Pic  5 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?284
Pic  6 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?285
Pic  7 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?286
Pic  8 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?287
Pic  9 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?288
Pic 10 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?289

============================================================
TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS NEWSLETTER,  USE THE REPLY FUNCTION
IN YOUR EMAIL PROGRAM, AND SEND THIS EMAIL RIGHT BACK TO US.
============================================================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: kozmo killah 
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 11:00:48 -0800 (PST)
To: Greg Lehey 
Subject: Re: Response to ticket 012398-6918-403
Message-ID: <19980128190013.19584.rocketmail@send1a.yahoomail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/html


this keeps being sent to me??!

over and over from four11.com, what gives?




---Greg Lehey  wrote:
>
> On Tue, Jan 27, 1998 at 04:28:52PM -0800, kozmo killah wrote:
> 
> (sorry, can't include HTML)
> 
> *Please* don't send messages in HTML.  Most people can't read them.
> 
> Why did you send this message to -mobile anyway?
> 
> Greg
> 
DO YOU YAHOO!?Get your free @yahoo.com address at Yahoo! Mail.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: info@mda.net
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 00:29:49 -0800 (PST)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: PRO2H PRODUCTS - NATURAL SKIN WEAR
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
IF YOU WISH TO BE REMOVED FROM THE MAILING LIST
PLEASE E-MAIL TO:  remove@mda.net AND PUT REMOVE 
IN THE SUBJECT HEADER.  THANK YOU.////////////////
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

	PRO 2H PRODUCTS


	NATURAL SKIN WEAR - 100% MONEY BACK GUARANTEE!!!


SKINWEAR:The Hottest Ingredients, The Latest Technology Let Pro 2H 


Products introduce you to a world of new product innovations that have 


enjoyed immediate commercial success.  Pro 2H proudly introduces 


SKINWEAR - a high performance, botanical skincare line that blends the
hottest ingredients with the latest technology.  These are products that
address the needs of today's cosmetic buyer by providing product choices
to help counteract the effects of sun damage, aging, pollution, wind,
severe temperatures and much, much, more.
		ENVIRONMENTALLY RESPONSIBLE
In today's rapidly changing world, we are confronted with the challenge
of balancing creativity and environmental responsibility.  Pro 2H Product's
environmental stance has sparked the development of product innovations
that will help meet tomorrow's environmental goals head on.  Use of recyclable
containers, natural ingredients and the continuing committment by our staff 
never to test on animals are just a few of the environmentallysound programs
we are committed to.  
We are known throughout the industry for our integrity, reliability and product 
superiority.  We deliver products and services that meet the changing needs of 
our customers, that is what gives us a distinct advantage over our competitors.
Now more than ever, we've got what it takes to help achieve beautiful, radiant, 
younger-looking skin.


INTRODUCING........Pro ALPHA H2


Pro ALPHA H2 is a scientific breakthrough formula containing a combination of 
ALPHA HYDROXY Fruit Acids including Glycolic Acid-derived from apples,sugar 
cane and citrus. Green Tea Leaves Extract helps to reduce irritation associated with 
Alpha Hydroxy Acids.  This natural fruit acid complex works with your skin's natural renewal processes to help achieve healthier, younger



looking skin.

		COMMON USES:


*  Sun Damaged Skin		*  Age Spots

*  Uneven Pigmentation		*  Blemishes
*  Premature Aging		*  Wrinkles


*  Rough Dry Patches		*  Smooth Fine Lines
	THE BEAUTY OF ALPHA H2


*This natural fruit acid complex works with your natural process to help
achieve healthier, younger-looking skin.


*Green Tea Leaves Extract helps to reduce irritation associated with Alpha Hydroxy


*Helps increase skin's own ability to absorb and retain moisture.
*Promotes natural exfoliation by removing dry, lifeless cells from skin's outer layer.
*Helps protect new healthy skin cells against free radical and damaging environmental effects.


*Retexturize - increaing clarity, firmness, elasticity and evenness in skin tone.


*Leaves skin feeling clean, freah, and healthy.


*Absorbs quickley with no greasy residue.


	INTRODUCING PRO BEMA 2H


Pro BEMA2H is a new blend of natural botanical ingredients and contains the 


world's most effective Aloe Vera extract.


TREATS:


*  Acne		*  Abrasions		*  Athlete's Foot


*  Allergic Rash	*  Burns			*  Bed Sores


*  Bee Stings	*  Bruises		*  Blisters


*  Boils		*  Chapped Skin	*  Chapped Lips


*  Cradle Cap	*  Chemical Peel	*  Diaper Rash


*  Dermabrassion*  Dermatitis		*  Dry Skin


*  Eczema	*  Flea Bites		*  Fungus


*  Fever Blisters	*  Hives			*  Insect Bites
*  Itching	*  Impetigo		*  Jock Itch


*  Keratosis	*  Lupus		*  Psoriasis


*  Poison Ivy	*  Poison Oak		*  Razor Burns


*  Rashes	*  Radiation		*  Rosacea


*  Shingles	*  Burns		*  Stretch Marks


*  Sunburn	*  Wind Burns	*  Very Dry Skin


*  Stops itching caused by poison oak, poison ivy, insect bites and rashes.
*  Instantly stops pain from cuts, scrapes, burns and sunburn, without peeling.
*  Heals athlete's foot and other fungus.
*  16 Hour moisturizer.
*  Excellent skin softener, it protects against environmental pollutants.


*  Helps guard against the effects of exposure to sun and wind.


*  Great for baby's skin for rashes, dry patches.
REVOLUTIONARY NEW FORMULA


Aloe Vera Skin Healing Creme
Never before has there been a more complete combination of ingredients along with a
16 hour moisturizer as in ProBema 2H without the use of dyes, water, mineral oil, 
cortisone creams, steroids, animal by-products and absolutely no animal testing.  The 
Aloe Vera used in ProBema 2H is Barbadensis Millers Aloe from the island of Barbados.
This is the strongest and most effective aloe vera in the world.
		NEW!	NEW!	NEW!	


	ProGel AH2  BIOBATH and SHOWER GEL


Alpha Hydroxy Skin Softeneing Complex and Vitamin Beads an ultra mild body 
treatment that cleanses and moisturizes without the drying effects of soap.  Enhanced
with Aloe Vera Gel and Panthenol to add moisture.  Golden beads of vitamins A and E
to condition and help increase skin's elasticity and suppleness.  Enhanced with 
invigorating, aromathreapy botanicals and Alpha Hydroxy Complex to leave your body
silky, refreshed, and revitalized. ph balanced.
	*  Soap-free, non-drying formula
	*  Contains Alpha Hydroxy-based skin softeneing complex


	*  Refreshing aromatic fragrance


KEY INGREDIENTS:  Vitamin A and E Beads, Alpha Hydroxy based skin softening 
complex, Panthenol, Aloe Vera Gel, Aromatherapy Botanical Extracts of Peach, 
Passion Fruit, Apricot and Mango.
METHOD OF USE: 


In the Shower:  Lather on moist skin, or apply to damp wash cloth, sponge or loofah,
massage and rinse. For the Bath:  Pour under warm running water for a luxurious, 
scented bubble bath.
	100% MONEY BACK GUARANTEE!!!


IF FOR ANY REASON YOU ARE NOT SATISFIED WITH OUR PRODUCTS, RETURN
THE UNUSED PORTION WITHIN 30 DAYS AND WE WILL GLADLY REFUND YOUR
MONEY.

For More Information visit our site at:	http://www.mda.net





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Friend@public.com
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 00:47:58 -0800 (PST)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: Just Released!  16 Million!
Message-ID: <50636853_56125305>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



IT WAS JUST RELEASED!!
 
INTRODUCING...MILLIONS VOL. 1

We took a total of over 92 million email addresses from many of the
touted CD's that are out there (bought them all - some were $300+)!
We added the millions we had in storage to those.   When we
combined them all, we had in  excess of 100+ million addresses
in one huge file.

We then ran a super "sort/de-dupe" program against this huge list.
It cut the file down to less than 25 million!!! Can you believe that? It
seems that most people that are selling CD's are duping the public
by putting numerous files of addresses in the CD over and over. This
created many duplicate addresses. They also had many program
 "generated" email addresses like Compuserve, MCI, ANON's, etc.
This causes a tremendous amount of undeliverables, and for  those
that use Stealth programs, clogs up servers quickly with trash, etc.

We then ran a program that contained 150+ keywords to remove
addresses with vulgarity,  profanity, sex-related names, postmaster,
 webmaster, flamer, abuse, spam, etc., etc.   Also eliminated all .edu,
.mil, .org, .gov, etc.   After that list was run against the remaining list,
it  reduced it down to near 16 million addresses!

So, you see, our list will save people hundreds of dollars buying all
others that are out there on  CD and otherwise. Using ours will be like
 using the 100+ million that we started with, but a lot  less money and
alot less time!!

We also purchased Cyber-Promos ($995.00) CD.   We received it just
prior to finishing production work on the new CD.   We had our people
take a random sample of 300,000 addresses  from the touted 2.9 that
they advertised.   We used a program that allows us to take a random
sample of addresses from any list.   We were able to have the program
take every 9th address, thus giving us a 300,000 list of Cyber's email
addresses from top to bottom.  We did not clean  these, but we did create
3 seperate files named cyber1.txt, cyber2.txt, & cyber3.txt of 100,000
addresses each. This will give all people that use the list a opportunity to
send mail to the list before deciding if their CD is all it's hyped to be.

We also included a 2+ million "Remove/Flamer" file broke into seperate
files for ease of  extracting and adding to your own database of removes.

 "You can buy from the REST or you can buy from the BEST.   Your choice.
_____________________________

What others are saying:
 
"I received the CD on Friday evening.   Like a kid with a new toy, I
immediately started bulking out using the new email addresses.  Over
the course of the weekend, I emailed out over 500,000 emails and I
received less than TWENTY undeliverables!!  I am totally satisfied
with my purchase!!  Thanks Premier!!"

Dave Buckley
Houston,  TX

"This list is worth it's weight in gold!!  I sent out 100,000 emails for my
product and received over 55 orders!

Ann Colby
New Orleans, LA

****************************************
 
                  HERE'S THE BOTTOM LINE

Here is what you get when you order today!

>> 16 Million Email Addresses... 1 per line in simple text format on a CD.
Files are in lots of 100,000 (no codes needed to open files).
All files are separated by domain name for your convenience.
 
PLUS you receive a tremendous REMOVE list!
 
AND
 
the a sampling of CyberPromo's HOT list.

>>> NOW ONLY $149.00!

This price is effective for the next seven days, thereafter the price will be
$199.00 so ORDER NOW!

All lists are completely free of any Duplicates. We also on a continual
basis, add New Names and Remove Undeliverables and Remove
Requests.
 
The result is the Cleanest Email Addresses Available Anywhere
to use over and over again, for a FRACTION of the cost that other
companies charge. Typical rates for acquiring email lists are from
1 cent to as high as 3 cents per email address - that's
"INFORMATION HIGHWAY" ROBBERY!.

Don't even hesitate on this one or you will miss out on the most
effective way to market anywhere..PERIOD!

If you have any further questions or to place an order by
phone, please do not hesitate to call us at:

                              908-245-1143

To order our email package, simply print out the EZ ORDER FORM
below and fax or mail it to our office today.
 
We accept Visa, Mastercard, AMEX, Checks by Fax and Mail.
 
 _________________
EZ Order Form
 
 
 _____Yes! I would like to order MILLIONS Vol. 1 email addresses
for only $149.00.
 
 
*Please select one of the following for shipping..
 
____I would like to receive my package OVERNIGHT. I'm including
$15 for shipping. (outside US add an additional $25 for shipping)
 
____I would like to receive my package 2 DAY delivery. I'm including
$10 for shipping.  (outside US add an additional $25 for shipping)
 
DATE_____________________________________________________
 
NAME____________________________________________________

COMPANY NAME___________________________________________

ADDRESS_________________________________________________

CITY, STATE, ZIP___________________________________________
 
PHONE NUMBERS__________________________________________
 
FAX NUMBERS_____________________________________________
 
EMAIL ADDRESS___________________________________________
 
TYPE OF CREDIT CARD:
 
______VISA _____MASTERCARD
 
CREDIT CARD# __________________________________________
 
EXPIRATION DATE________________________________________
 
NAME ON CARD___________________________________________
 
AMOUNT $____________________
 
 
(Required) SIGNATURE:x________________________
 
DATE:x__________________
 
You may fax your order to us at:   1-908-245-3119
 
CHECK BY FAX SERVICES!
 
If you would like to fax a check, paste your check below and fax it to
our office along with all forms to: 1-908-245-3119

******************************************************

***24 HOUR FAX SERVICES*** PLEASE PASTE YOUR
 
CHECK HERE AND FAX IT TO US AT 1-908-245-3119
 
*******************************************************
 
If You fax a check, there is no need for you to send the original check.
We will draft up a new check, with the exact information from your
original check. All checks will be held for bank clearance.

If you feel more comfortable sending payment through the mail,
please send all forms and Check or Money Order to:
 
JKP Enterprises
700 Boulevard 
Suite 102
Kenilworth, NJ 07033






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: eureka@eureka.abc-web.com
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 04:43:51 -0800 (PST)
To: All Eureka! Subscribers: ;
Subject: Eureka! Thu Jan 29 '98
Message-ID: <19980129083708.8170.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Welcome to Thursday's issue of Eureka!

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Gee thanks! The  gift  of  free  sleaze  is  a  touching one
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LESBIAN DIARIES
Cool idea for a site. Our web mistress is sweet and innocent
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BRAND NEW - HOORAY! THE ADULT SEARCH ENGINE
Now adult surfers have our very own search engine,  directly
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Hooray! -----------------> http://eureka.abc-web.com/hooray/

FREE STREAMING VIDEO
Please note that most of these feeds require a Netscape bro-
wser in order to successfully view them. Unfortunately Micr-
osoft's browser does not have all the features of Netscape's
yet.  However, many of the feeds use the RealPlayer and will
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Three dicks -------------------> http://207.168.184.26/trip/

CHAT WITH OTHER READERS
This chat is growing fast, and already there are a number of
regulars  you will meet most days.  It's good to see Eureka!
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Adult/Sex Chat -----------------> http://137.39.63.229/chat/
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EUREKA! TRANSLATIONS
As well as English you can now choose any of these languages
DEUTSCH ------> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/deutsch.htm
ESPAŃOL ------> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/espanol.htm
FRANÇAIS ----> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/francais.htm
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Pic  8 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?297
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Pic 10 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?299

============================================================
TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS NEWSLETTER,  USE THE REPLY FUNCTION
IN YOUR EMAIL PROGRAM, AND SEND THIS EMAIL RIGHT BACK TO US.
============================================================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Webmaster 
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 10:32:17 -0800 (PST)
To: webmasters@nexus.freshteens.com
Subject: Earn $20 Per Signup
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Webmasters:

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Freakazoid" 
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 10:45:21 -0800 (PST)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: FUA - Great Underground
Message-ID: <199801291845.KAA24113@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Dear Undergrounders!

This is a Transmition from Freakazoid. 
I just want to tell you that FUA - Freakazoid`s Underground Archive is now
comming up. Whith much, much moore undergound and eligal things than
you can ever imagen.

http://freakazoid.simplenet.com
/Freakazoid 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Freakazoid" 
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 11:18:22 -0800 (PST)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: FUA - Has Open
Message-ID: <199801291859.KAA28446@geocities.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hi!

Freakazoid`s Undergorund Archive Is About to Open. Please Stop by.
It`s cool.

Hacking
Phreaking
Carding
Undergorund
And much, much moore
http://freakazoid.simplenet.com

/Freakazoid




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: partners@partnersnow.com
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 16:51:57 -0800 (PST)
To: partners@partnersnow.com
Subject: ELECTRICITY CAN MAKE YOU RICH
Message-ID: <199801300133.UAA02365@partnersnow.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


All of us are constantly bombarded by people hawking "unbelievable",
"once-in-a-lifetime", "get-rich-quick" business opportunities.  I graduated 
from Yale, became Commissioner of Housing in New York City, started a real 
estate development company, and now own an 83-year-old diamond-cutting
company.  Quite bluntly, I won't waste my time even listening to the pitch.

And yet right now, I am telling eveybody I know (and, obviously, hundreds
of people I don't know) about an opportunity available in the deregulation
of electricity that sounds just as outrageous as all the phony talk we've heard
in the past.  The difference is that this is real.  And the urgency comes from
the fact that it will never happen again.  You might choose to read no further,
but you will never be able to say that you weren't there when business 
history was being made.

MAKE NO INVESTMENT AND START PART-TIME

Know up front that your participation will not require start-up costs of more
than about $300 nor that you leave your current full-time job.  You should
also know that deregulated electricity in the US, albeit a $215-billion 
industry, is only one component in a global master plan that will soon tap
even larger markets in internet commerce, telecommunications, and 
energy distribution. In all these markets, our participation will be in
partnership with the most respected names in the corporate world. The 
structure of this precedent-setting Company has already been formed
and the names of our partners will be announced over the next few weeks.
We intend to do for all services entering homes, offices, and factories
what the supermarket did to individual food shops and what the mall did
to Main Street stores.  The powerful trend to consolidation will naturally 
successfully extend to essential modern services because the benefits
will be the same: lower cost and greater convenience.  This is nobody's
pipe dream.  This is history in the making, and you can become a very 
rich player by finally being in the right place at the right time and taking action.

DEREGULATION CAN ONLY HAPPEN ONCE

By the year 2002, the domestic electric utilities industry will be fundamentally
deregulated.  That means that the out-dated, costly, monopolistic utility 
providers, which we have always accepted like death and taxes, will be forced
to compete in the open market with lower-cost, high-tech, entrepreneurial,
service-oriented private companies.  In many states, the process has already
begun.  California's $20-billion industry will be one of the first to deregulate
completely in 1998, along with New Hampshire and Rhode Island.
Massachusetts and Pennsylvania are right behind, with many other states 
scheduling to start in 1998, too.  Consumers will have the right to choose 
the source of their power and you will have the opportunity to sell it.  And it
has all been done before.  In the 1970's, the airline industry deregulated
and the resulting competition destroyed established companies and made 
fortunes for others.  In the 1980's,  AT&T lost its monopoly and now barely
holds on to 50% of the market.  The significant difference in the deregulation of
electricity in the 1990's is that you are right now being given a chance to
participate even before it happens.

Our Company has developed the multi-million-dollar infrastructure to
support its goal of becoming to deregulated electricity what MCI became
to deregulated telephone.  And the distribution of our electricity will be
made only through independent entrepreneurs empowered by the Company
to profit every time a customer turns on a light.  Even more eye-opening, 
these "electricity entrepreneurs" will profit to an even greater extent from 
their monthly commissions on their customers' use of all the other services the
new Company will offer:  internet commerce, telephony of all kinds, home
security, cable TV, and many more.  With three or more services "bundled"
together, studies have shown that customers are lost at a rate of less
than 10% a year.  This is true residual income.

Compensation accrues from four main sources: (1) up-front agency fees paid to 
the Distributor when customers subscribe to our services; (2) up-front training
fees paid to the Sponsor when new Distributors join the Company; (3) residual
commissions paid to the Distributor as a percentage of customers' monthly
use of the Company's services; and (4) executive bonuses paid to Distributors
on the total volume generated by his or her entire organization.

CAPITALIZE ON A PROVEN ROCK-SOLID COMPANY

As I said, we are not looking for investors.  Our parent is a 13-year-old,
$1.4 billion, high-tech company with a D&B 5A-1, no debt, US Olympic
Committee licenses, and operations in 23 countries all over the world.  It is
one of nine companies in the history of the United States that grew from
start-up to one billion dollars in sales in less than ten years (others include
Microsoft, FEDEX, Nike, and Home Depot).  Our Asian division went public
on the New York Stock Exchange with Morgan Stanley and Merrill Lynch as 
our underwriters.  Most important, the Company has established a brilliant, 
highly-leveraged plan for growth that has empowered over 400 associates,
working on their own schedules, usually out of their own homes, to reach an
income level that in 1996 averaged $561,000 a year.  Significantly, that track
record was achieved in industries a small fraction of the size of deregulated 
electricity and our other future markets.

Please be aware that there will be many start-up companies hustling to be 
players in this historic opportunity.  There will be efforts by the utility dinosaurs
to hang on to their markets.  Be sure that your potential in this industry isn't
undermined by the failure of the insubstantial up-starts or the collapse of the
prehistoric giants.

LIFE IS NOT A DRESS REHEARSAL 

In my role as President of a diamond-cutting company,  I know the 
frustrations of a capital-intensive, high-risk, low-margin, slow-growth industry.
As an Administrator in the medical community, my wife sees the deterioration
in doctors' earnings and the downsizing and closing of hospitals everywhere.
While many of the old ways of making money are gone, new opportunities
abound.  Deregulated electricity is the next big opportunity, structured by a
genius hyper-growth Company that is already allowing my wife and me to
continue our professional work full-time, while enabling us to develop
part-time a perpetual income with unlimited potential.  The partners we are
seeking for this opportunity should be independent, open-minded, self-motivated, 
highly-principled entrepreneurs. Such a profile might seem demanding, but
the financial rewards can be gigantic.

I was skeptical, too, at first.  But the more I investigated, the more I realized
that this is the rare, legitimate, dynamic opportunity that people, not long from
now, will look back to and lament that they they missed.  Electricity 
deregulation has never happened before and will never happen again.
There is no doubt that fortunes will be made as a result of deregulation and
the Company's global vision.  The only question is who will be along for the 
ride.  And it might not be for you.  There are always reasons.  But clearly, 
if you continue to do what you've always done, you'll continue to get what
you've always gotten.  And if you've already gotten all the time freedom
and all the money you've always wanted, this opportunity is probably not for you.
But if you haven't, how long are you going to wait? 

For more information, please call 1-800-326-9253 or email me back and leave your name and daytime and evening phone number and the best time to call.  Serious inquiries only please.
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
We practice responsible emailing.  If you wish to be removed from  future
mailings, please reply  with  remove in the subject.
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 19:28:22 -0800 (PST)
To: Fisher Mark 
Subject: RE: Microsoft Internet Explorer: Request for Comments
In-Reply-To: <83C932393B88D111AED30000F84104A70A1ED3@indyexch_fddi.indy.tce.com>
Message-ID: <31m4Je7w165w@bwalk.dm.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Fisher Mark  writes:

> >One small beef: why doesn't it accept .p12 certificates signed by
> >"Vesign web site CA"?
>
> Are these PEM or DER-encoded?  There is a known problem with PEM-encoded
> Certificate Authority certificates not being accepted at all.
> (DER-encoded Certificate Authority certificates are accepted, but MSIE
> 4.x won't display their contents while you are accepting them -- you
> have to accept them, then view their contents.)

Let me illustrate...

This is the cypherpunks.p12 certificate signed by "VeriSign Web Site Access CA"
for cypherpunks@bwalk.dm.com (Random Q. Hacker). I believe it's x509/DER.
You need to save it as a local file (say \temp\cypherpunks.p12).
The password ("pin") is "cypherpunks".

To import the certificate in your Netscape[tm] Navigator 4 browser I do this:

 Click on Communicator -> Security Info
 Under Certificates, click on Yours, then on "Import a Certificate"
 Select the local file. Type in the pin (cypherpunks) when prompted.
(see http://www.verisign.com/netscape/transport/import.html)

begin 644 cypherpunks.p12
M,(`"`0,P@`8)*H9(AO<-`0.2Z:PG+<[[4/IY?*.4!T
MK';3SKEA(^\%Z*OM-9I]CF&7\JL)B^66QJJ4*JN`E;3`$M@NO.]C^
MV\L3ZYM*ACS(T!^G"+65090XNX'R`XNW?%5#CUO]P>2(\/!BP@%G,D>6?`418[(:!H9#KVS
MVS>3$9XYJ)I\1/*JA=Y-G('Z@C]S(E8M8E%:*TOZ-J95+8S3'`ED)=\T)'ZV
MN?0AD"(10+9,?]JWCS+&+ABVD]7%SJ/LF;`A2PCSPO)1T.))_,WN^!,]?_OP
MOM)#IPWOF"T@=ZJ5'PIZP9/I90,%.@W(B?8>!$)^/^*XTB8E=NW\$H-
M&[Q>:*6)'SX1X=:@ND]S,I;E"$I(*M='"I^##U^)R<_K3Q^IJ`XPO[M4GJ:]
MC*(8%:R;X%HCD#!XK#L;@3SQ#O5YP7(S)'T%V$T$`00$`0$$`3$$`00$`0$$
M`7P$`00$`0$$`3`$`00$`0$$`54$`00$`0$$`08$`00$`0$$`0D$`00$`0D$
M"2J&2(;W#0$)%`0!!`0!`00!,00!!`0!`00!2`0!!`0!`00!'@0!!`0!`00!
M1@0!!`0!1@1&`%(`80!N`&0`;P!M`"``40`N`"``2`!A`&,`:P!E`'(`)P!S
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M!`0!`00!(P0!!`0!`00!!@0!!`0!`00!"00!!`0!"00)*H9(AO<-`0D5!`$$
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MQ1W$:+9C'\A+,C^^VFP;!00"```$`@``!`(```0!,`0!@`0!!@0!"00)*H9(
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M<_[<$`,8CTNUX$LN#P5"G<(ZXH"UE??
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M)5BNA/4F.AX%$@
M
M"8<9XA@%"RNU3.*D"YFE6TO3\:GGA7(,9WMD_E4ABMY4;*>OU*PE$;Y$^^/.
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M[--9%[&3=W1@W_4M:JIQ//@<`;P`(ZF:@'MW0+6@_:3D!0(P%8J@2\[<&7W=
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M\+@RV)>Q9%`@'\#NQ$=6V@XN%M\\RRFXXHN!TU(4Z7``85-Y?.V35O'@\;@K
M!`$$!`$(!`C@"^/@&!YC'@0!!`0!"`0(CF9`SX-,;"P$`00$`3@$.',8<9=M
MP;\$#1"H$4YPT$3--%B[".JZ'QY8M*#SW.BL:3-S9X]U#!R*?.7M3#G*J!F>
M^Y#"`*R[!`$$!`$(!`B\T"$OSV7@P`0!!`0!"`0(O8_X%_V`9VT$`00$`0@$
M"*?5L&6+V16R!`$$!`$0!!#.QQUB4.SU"Q",[GQ8LA7^!`$$!`$(!`AE6(J8
MC?5B;F%!LA8DXSE#4;J!-%JO[0(R6EN>.`HLD_E+6Z1RY)O12DBV3'J<@*ZE
MC7JW+0TDIBE>2.FA"-.J1]FT1?1`;`[_`/)AS:1:7(L)[!+YL_.=@GH=@"L.
M8)UB;*$*G;I[[%)^MJ&%:?E\`JI6RM-/COA+LC^:4"F@0=R+'XV'N:OR?[0A
M,`N'&NB[[85U#2N2;*N!'A4_9]1Y+]>VH_!`/DN8G,I-C_DI8>)9($,D-RVY
M*-^$XVC,I=M
M$<(2[%LY8?6XI.7E-7W959WLO!\Y8&-:1E^%[@MD..5,SM7N^89^*;%)\*@)
M8:*N9-T`CAL!
MX^5!X57W2\X3EFVX1?'DPKEG2MVTQ/L+(RZN%'(6ZGI4'9*YC#MP$@DE\4F4
MIS\]@@QP6SA2/O7,V1@?PV
M,@`;5=#6R94NEWSW5=ND`Y=XK"(WB+O0"@CH@G^`>X_LZ[Q1`:Q:,ICV**C]
M/)L9`[77V2X<_8RA!!G:]D\[N\##7TWJC7"%%(&'F@]SD(*4?>B49?,Y6(1W
M6@I]0)_5**YN%-W@2?ZZ98MGW=X+:304&Q8JY[R-U"`%ZWJ>
M(E!)JP3"?1>OH>?\I&D'D5+J+M%4Z%$:0TML_3591QLN&9H&E@JJ/M93F"Z%W'FG2_.1ME6QIO,Y1`!+?M0N,FM!27.%%/G_:3
M-LZ^)G@G69#(AGUR''7E$W/Y6A;(`N==^CKFP`K#M03T!NY@<
M$9>'M5YJ"A'*,#G:KF;/%("QPK7R)*Y0EO9,%*F'*\8H`BL&P\'B-'EW@RR&
MM:S07"6\/&%>AT[FX_#<#*^DEE?[?:;&'W;[X9]?)4U]_;&:<%%0Y''2BOU/:E4Y$J"8Z6ZU&!
MU\B\$$R90-@<7WZ+2ILRSYFYSM\&"8E(&P%F"J
MB9]]6/"['02-$;)'J2TWE!&P;:+8S';SFFCU`K!QFH`;<)-^Z9)L*!H[(\++
MIN?K$W*\./L#K?*A&B2IJ,8]_C>`K,4R)DQ1N>WCL"E^J.40C]HW%N")D(6XOX#CQX,[C&V@0.1`E[87 Internet options -> Content tab
 Click the "personal" button under Certificates
 A new window opens. Click on Import
 Type in the name of your local file and the password (cypherpunks).

IE simply says it can't import it, with no details!

I *assume* it's because "Vesign web site CA" isn't even listed among the
authorities IE accepts (and I'm too lasy to search the web for whatever
I need to add to IE)

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: invest@juno.com
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 21:08:50 -0800 (PST)
To: invest@yes.com
Subject: The # 1 Stock Recommendation Service Is Free
Message-ID: <199702170025.GAA08056@yes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




We are very excited to inform you about the most accurate and reliable e-mail stock recommendation service on the net today. What's even better is that it is free. Damex research specializes in the following areas:

1.) Finding undiscovered and undervalued stocks that have tremendous potential for dramatic appreciation.

2.) Uncover low priced stocks on the verge of breakouts from stagnant positions. Usually the company chosen will have recently undertaken a change in management, obtained a research breakthrough, made an important acquisition, developed a remarkable new product or obtained important financing. Any of these factors could lead to rapid price appreciation

3.) Identifies over priced companies ripe for selling short. Includes price to go short with stop loss for all short positions.

All recommendations are easy to implement and are low stress and high profit stock and option trades

We have to earn your trust. Our staff understands that most people don't have the time and resources to do the in depth research and analysis necessary for successful investing.That's why thousands of investors prefer Damex Research to do it for them.

To Subcribe Send your e-mail address to     damex3@juno.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: seo85@prodigy.com
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 11:44:24 -0800 (PST)
To: seo85@prodigy.com
Subject: BUISNESS IS BOOMING
Message-ID: <199801294013VAA41033@post.com.tw>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


WE ARE VERY EXCITED TO ANNOUNCE,



National Software Company is currently seeking independent
agents for marketing their services.  If you're reading this,
you have what it takes, (a computer and modem,) to start
your own business, work part-time or full-time.  The commissions
are great, the products are great, and it sells itself.   You will
be sent all the materials it takes to take orders in the convenience
of your own home,-manual, order forms, software, etc.
No cold calling  No face to face. 
This is a real company, desiring real people who want
in on the ground floor.  With all the people getting online via
AOL, Compuserve, Netscape, the marketing and need is great.You must be
a self-starter , and make between $700-to-$1000 per week to start. 
Our average agents yearly salary is six figures.  
Be your own boss!  Join us and become an independent sales agent .  
Call for exciting message!
312-409-7743
















=cyperse





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: MTL_HUB@mbi.mercantile.com
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 06:02:00 -0800 (PST)
To: GroupShield.Notification.List@mbi.mercantile.com
Subject: ALERT: Message from kes21 was truncated; File att1.com infected with BW.556 virus
Message-ID: <8625659C.004D8672.00@mbi.mercantile.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Please refer to the GroupShield Quarantine Area for more details.
 INCIDENT
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------
 Scan Time:    01/30/98 08:06:45 AM
 Detection:    File att1.com infected with BW.556 virus
 Disposition:  Note has been truncated
 Quarantined:  (Document link not converted)
CN=MTL_HUB/OU=STL/O=MTL!!d:\notes\data\QAREA.NSF
 Version:      GroupShield 3.14 (Build 184)

 MESSAGE
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------
 Message ID:   004D7F4F
 Sender:       kes21@chat.ru
 Subject:      Re: Programming
 Recipients:   CN=Taru Goel/OU=STL/O=MTL
 Routing:      CN=MTL_HUB/OU=STL/O=MTL

 SYNOPSIS
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------
RICH TEXT 'Body' (NORMAL)
RICH TEXT 'Body' (NORMAL)

FILE ATTACHMENT 'att1.com'
     << BW.556 >>
     File size:     559 bytes
     Host type:     MSDOS
     Compression:   OFF
     Attributes:    PUBLIC READ-WRITE
     File flags:    0
     Created:       01/30/98 08:06:29 AM
     Modified:      01/30/98 08:06:29 AM
     Status:        Removed
     Scanner:       McAfee Scan DLL (version 3030) found BW.556







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: eureka@eureka.abc-web.com
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 00:41:08 -0800 (PST)
To: All Eureka! Subscribers: ;
Subject: Eureka! Fri Jan 30 '98
Message-ID: <19980130081656.9486.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Welcome to Friday's issue of Eureka!

BLACK LABEL
Get yourself  a FREE two day pass to Black Label!  They have
over 2,000  hardcore movies,  FREE live  fucking -  over 200
with sound,  10,000 hot  sex stories,  Top-quality  hardcore
pictorials, and so much more you'll be amazed. Check it out!
Black Label ---------> http://www.xxx69.com/banner_mail.html 

PLEASE VISIT THIS FINE EUREKA! PARTNER SITE
SINFUL'S 20 FREE XXX PICS
http://www.sinful.net/cgi-bin/topvlog.cgi?eureka
20 FREE HARDCORE, CUMSHOT, GROUPSEX, AND FREE ANALSEX PHOTOS
UPDATED WEEKLY PLUS LINKS TO 700+ FREE ADULT PICTURE SITES.
CATEGORIES INCLUDE: ASIAN, HARDCORE, SOFTCORE, BABES, AND
PIC LINKS. YOU GET ALL OF THIS FOR FREE!! VISIT US NOW!!

SWEBABES
Meet Mistress Desire  -  see  her  naked!  Theres  plenty of
steamy pix to get you  hot.  Plus, let your imagination take
flight... there's nothing like a good bedtime story. 'Seeing
two huge sets of tits pressed together. I decided to join in
the action. Carla quickly moved her head between my legs' !!
Swebabes .......................... http://www.swebabes.com/

DONNA'S TIGHT BEAVERS
Imagine yourself getting it  on  with  Donna's full breasted
peachy assed glorious girls.  Mmmm.  Click on the thumbnails
to peer a little  closer  at  these  paragons of wild wanton
womanhood. Easy to use.  Easy on the eye. Hard on the pants.
Tight Beavers ..... http://www.megaservices.com/adult/donna/

DUTCH 4 ALL
It's a free for all hardcore  pix  lucky dip. Get up to your
elbows in masturbation, eighteen,  asian,  or  live shows to
name but some.  It's  easy  to  get  to  the  porn  which is
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of storm tossed  porn it's a lighthouse,  a hardcore harbor!
Dutch 4 All ...................... http://www.dutch4all.com/

LICK IT
This is a top site for  lovers of oral action. With lashings
of steaming oral hardcore  pix.  Some  girls just can't help
playing  with  their  food.   Some   guys   just  cant  help
feeding'em! It's a three  course  meal  of  a site. Lick it.
Lick It ........ http://www.cybertoad.com/lickit/warning.htm

BRAND NEW - HOORAY! THE ADULT SEARCH ENGINE
Now adult surfers have our very own search engine,  directly
designed to  only list adult sites,  and so run fast because
all other  types of site  are ignored.  Check it out  today!
Hooray! -----------------> http://eureka.abc-web.com/hooray/

FREE STREAMING VIDEO
Please note that most of these feeds require a Netscape bro-
wser in order to successfully view them. Unfortunately Micr-
osoft's browser does not have all the features of Netscape's
yet.  However, many of the feeds use the RealPlayer and will
work in most browsers.  If you do not have Netscape and want
a free copy click here --> http://www.netscape.com/download/
Pregnant ----------------------> http://207.168.184.26/preg/

CHAT WITH OTHER READERS
This chat is growing fast, and already there are a number of
regulars  you will meet most days.  It's good to see Eureka!
readers interacting with each other and having a great time!
Adult/Sex Chat -----------------> http://137.39.63.229/chat/
General/Fun Chat -------> http://137.39.63.229/chat/funchat/

THE BEST PHONE SEX
NEW!!!! LD Call only! - Live Hot Girls!!!!--->1-664-410-3912
LIVE: 1-on-1, 2-on-1, Group, Dateline-------->1-800-644-8779
FREE: Live 1-on-1 (international call only)--->011-678-77416

AMATEUR SITE OF THE DAY
KAREN: A twenty year old  bi-babe  who loves pussy more than
dick, this chick is one  hot  commodity. Her girlfriend is a
topless dancer. A sexy  blonde  with  real tits, and bedroom
eyes, Karen is a keeper!
---------------------------> http://amateurindex.com/eureka/

EROTIC STORY SITE OF THE DAY
StinkyBoy's Sex Stories: Stinky gives  you a fresh selection
of sex stories in 3  nasty categories: Gang Bangs, Lesbians,
and B & D. ............... http://www.stinkyboy.com/stories/

DAILY CARTOON ----------> http://www.erosinorbit.com/eureka/

ADULT STAR PIC OF THE DAY
Every day  we bring you an exclusive  choice pic of a famous
adult porn star.  And we must tell you - these pix are abso-
luletly brilliant! ---> http://www.xxxadultstars.com/eureka/

GAYEUREKA!
The gay  newsletter is now  available.  You can get it here!
Gay Eureka! ----------> http://eureka.abc-web.com/gayeureka/

EUREKA! TRANSLATIONS
As well as English you can now choose any of these languages
DEUTSCH ------> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/deutsch.htm
ESPAŃOL ------> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/espanol.htm
FRANÇAIS ----> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/francais.htm
ITALIANO ----> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/italiano.htm
PORTUGUESE > http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/portuguese.htm

TODAY'S FREE PIX
Pic  1 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?300
Pic  2 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?301
Pic  3 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?302
Pic  4 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?303
Pic  5 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?304
Pic  6 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?305
Pic  7 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?306
Pic  8 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?307
Pic  9 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?308
Pic 10 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?309

============================================================
TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS NEWSLETTER,  USE THE REPLY FUNCTION
IN YOUR EMAIL PROGRAM, AND SEND THIS EMAIL RIGHT BACK TO US.
============================================================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: MTL_HUB@mbi.mercantile.com
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 06:38:50 -0800 (PST)
To: GroupShield.Notification.List@mbi.mercantile.com
Subject: ALERT: Message from kes21 was truncated; File att1.com infected with BW.556 virus
Message-ID: <8625659C.0050FC3C.00@mbi.mercantile.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Please refer to the GroupShield Quarantine Area for more details.
 INCIDENT
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------
 Scan Time:    01/30/98 08:44:33 AM
 Detection:    File att1.com infected with BW.556 virus
 Disposition:  Note has been truncated
 Quarantined:  (Document link not converted)
CN=MTL_HUB/OU=STL/O=MTL!!d:\notes\data\QAREA.NSF
 Version:      GroupShield 3.14 (Build 184)

 MESSAGE
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------
 Message ID:   0050F98C
 Sender:       kes21@chat.ru
 Subject:      Re: Programming
 Recipients:   CN=Taru Goel/OU=STL/O=MTL
 Routing:      CN=MTL_HUB/OU=STL/O=MTL

 SYNOPSIS
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------
RICH TEXT 'Body' (NORMAL)
RICH TEXT 'Body' (NORMAL)

FILE ATTACHMENT 'att1.com'
     << BW.556 >>
     File size:     559 bytes
     Host type:     MSDOS
     Compression:   OFF
     Attributes:    PUBLIC READ-WRITE
     File flags:    0
     Created:       01/30/98 08:44:28 AM
     Modified:      01/30/98 08:44:28 AM
     Status:        Removed
     Scanner:       McAfee Scan DLL (version 3030) found BW.556







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Freakazoid - The Evning Hacker" 
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 09:22:55 -0800 (PST)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: FUA - GRAND OPENING
Message-ID: <199801301722.JAA02423@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Dear Undergrounders, Hackers, Crackers or what ever you are!

I have now disigded the opening date for Freakazoid`s Underground ARchive
It will open 1998-02-03 - The 2nd of Mars. It will contain material that is high 
rated on the goverments hate list`s. So why dont come visit os and check it 
out. Now you can read about the development on the site. So come visit us.

http://freakazoid.simplenet.com

-- -- -- -- END OF FREAKAZOID TRANSMITION -- -- -- --




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: fuahuolee91@prodigy.com
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 19:01:05 -0800 (PST)
To: fuahuolee91@prodigy.com
Subject: Washing your clothes is hazardous to the Earth!
Message-ID: <199801302096OAA2432@post.heriot-watt.ac.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



                     EXCLUSIVE RIGHTS TO NASA TECHNOLOGY!


That's right, we have exclusive worldwide rights to this NASA-developed technology for use in our laundry system.  MAKE $2,000 TO $8,000 per month!.  North Carolina State University, College of Textiles, laboratory tests confirm our Ultra 7 laundry system outperforms Liquid Tide, Wisk and All detergents and states The LaundryMaster Disk was also the most effective of the four cleaning systems in improving the whiteness of the poly/cotton fabric.  We have the tests results that prove it.

+ Five of the most respected environmental groups in the country support our product  Including the Clean Water Project. (Call us and we will tell you who they are). This is a legitimate business with an entirely unique product called the Ultra 7 Laundry System.  Our company employs over 120 people, has over 50,000 reps worldwide and has done over $50 million in sales of this one product in just 9 months.  We help sponsor The Clean Water Project and are endorsed by 5 Major Worldwide Environmental groups.  . We are for real!!

Hello, Are you concerned about the damage we are doing to our environment?  I am, and so is the company I am affiliated with.  That's why they purchased the rights to this incredible technology never before used in the home laundry industry.  With our laundry system, you can throw away your detergent, bleach, stain removers and fabric softeners!  That's right, CHEMICAL FREE WASHING with our exclusive laundry system.  Here's what I mean:

+ EASY TO USE-simply drop the disc into your machine with your dirty clothes, add our breakthrough bionic enzymes to replace bleach and stain removers
+ SAVES YOU $$-our disc is guaranteed to last for 7 YEARS.  An average of only 2 cents per wash load!
+ CHEMICAL-FREE WASHING-works on the principles of liquid magnets developed by NASA 30 years ago for the space industry
+ INCREASES LIFE OF YOUR CLOTHES-no damaging additives that lead to the breakdown of your clothing, or harm the environment. 60% less lint.
+ 100% HYPOALLERGENIC AND ENVIRONMENTALLY FRIENDLY-no residue is left in your clothes, especially important to people with allergies or sensitive skin.

If you want to know more about this incredible new product, and about the fantastic business opportunity available right now (our distributors are breaking all the income records for this industry in just our first eight months in business), then please call 1-888-365-0000  ext.2464 and leave your name, state,  and both work and home phone numbers.  I  will  be  glad  to  rush  you a free comprehensive information package, as well as your very own laundry system for demonstration.. You'll be able to see for yourself that it truly works great.  Help clean up the environment and make big money too, what could be better?!  Please, serious inquiries only. I apologize for any inconvenience and hope to hear from you soon. Thank you for your time.  


Best Regards,

L.C. Green 


PS: Call 1-888-365-0000 ext.2464 now to receive your free comprehensive information package and demonstration laundry system.  


TO BE  REMOVED TYPE REMOVE IN SUBJECT AND REPLY TO sowell@bizzy.net





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: mb-347@lyte.net
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 18:15:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Multiply Your Traffic In 5 Minutes!
Message-ID: <199801310159.UAA04701@mail.aolter.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Tired of top lists?

Here's an innovative new way for adult 
webmasters to MULTIPLY their traffic!

http://www.gatkin.com/easyhits.html






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: action@psp.ink
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 20:45:28 -0800 (PST)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: Success Magazine - over 100 yrs.
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


New! From ATA Publications:

Now you can get in on the ground floor selling Success Magazine and Entrepreneur Magazine, two well known and well respected business publications.

Now you can earn over $100,000 this year selling products that everybody wants. It will be so simple!

Incredibly low investment, under $45!!! GET IN NOW!!!

4x7 Progressive Matrix pays over $100,000.

NEW  Jan.20,1998!!!!

For more info call: 800-338-1349





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: mike@aol.com
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 22:29:56 -0800 (PST)
To: mike@aol.com
Subject: HERBAL ENERGIZER......SUPER FAT BURNER!!!!
Message-ID: <199801304432EAA48264@post.eznet.it>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





INCREASE YOUR ENERGY LEVEL & FIRM UP - 
WITHOUT GIVING UP THE FOOD YOU LOVE!
• All Natural Energizer  • Reduce Sugar Cravings  • Burn the Fat While You Keep the Muscle
• Eat the Foods You Love  • Preferred by Fitness Experts  • 100% Safe and Natural

AN INCREDIBLE NUTRITIONAL BREAKTHROUGH!

     I know what you're thinking. I felt the same way at first....but I found that there is finally a way to trim down and shed unwanted fat without all the hassles of a diet and strenuous exercise. Yes, there's actually a way to firm up without giving up the food you love. And it's so easy! I just take one Thermo-Lift(tm) capsule twice a day...and that's it! Sure, exercise and daily activity will contribute to your results, but they're not required! And just think...no messy powders or mixes. No starvation. No rationing your food by the ounce. Thermo-Lift(tm) improves your metabolism so your body burns the excess fat!  I actually noticed my clothes fitting better before I noticed the pounds coming off! 

METABOLISM IS THE KEY

     Anyone who has struggled to lose weight can tell you diets alone don't work! That's because your size, or your weight, has more to do with your metabolism than what you eat.
     Changes International has designed a product that works several ways to help you achieve maximum results from your weight-loss program. This unique blend of herbs, botanicals and Chromium Picolinate improves your metabolism so your body relies more on stored body fat and less on stored proteins. 

STOP THE YO-YO CYCLE!

     On a typical diet, up to 30% of lost weight is muscle. Losing muscle lowers your metabolic rate and slows the burning of calories. This lower metabolic rate also makes it hard to keep lost pounds from creeping back. Result: the Yo-Yo syndrome! You know, up and down...up and down. After each lose-gain cycle the proportion of fat actually increases!
     To break this vicious cycle, it is important to lose only fat while maintaining... or even increasing... muscle! Our unique formula is a specialized combination of herbs and botanicals coupled with the best source of chromium available. Patented Chromium Picolinate, a bio-active chromium with clinically proven benefits, is vital to good health and is essential for the effective functioning of insulin.
     Studies have shown chromium nutrition to be an effective part of LONG-TERM fat loss programs!

NATIONALLY RECOGNIZED 

• Three million readers of Cosmopolitan read a discussion of Chromium Picolinate's value for dieters under the headline, "A Miracle Mineral?".
• The cholesterol-reducing effect of Chromium Picolinate was highlighted in Ladies Home Journal.
• Longevity magazine has praised it as a safe alternative to anabolic steroids. 
• A large number of publications for athletes and health food shoppers have also run feature articles on Chromium Picolinate, including: Prevention, Today's Living, Total Health and Muscular Development.

HERE'S MORE EVIDENCE!

     Several double-blind crossover studies conducted along with clinical and laboratory tests at a leading university and hospital have proven that the ingredients in Thermo-Lift(tm) are effective. Without changing dietary or exercise habits over a 6-week period, subjects in separate studies lost an average of 23% body fat or approximately 4.4 pounds of fat, and increased lean body mass by 1.5 pounds.
     People over the age of 46 did even better, and women seemed to do the best! People with elevated cholesterol levels averaged a 10% drop in LDL cholesterol. 

WHAT'S IN THERMO-LIFT(tm)?

     Chromium Picolinate, Bee Pollen, Astralagus, Licorice Root, Ginger Root, Rehmannia Root, Siberian Ginseng, Ma Huang Extract, Gotu Kola, Bladderwrack, White Willow Bark, Guarana Extract and Reishi Mushroom. All ingredients are formulated and synergistically blended to be both 100% safe and effective. Thermo-Lift(tm) is manufactured and bottled by a 25 year-old, pharmaceutical company and all FDA standards have been met or exceeded.

THE ENERGIZERS

     Siberian Ginseng: Good source of energy and endurance. Increases physical and mental vigor. Ma Huang extract: Helps to increase energy, improve circulation, control appetite and decongest. The Chinese use it for treatment of asthma and other respiratory disorders. Guarana extract: Increases mental alertness and fights fatigue-a very high energy source. Rehmannia Root: Used to treat anemia, fatigue, and to promote the healing of bones. Astralagus: Acts as a tonic to protect the immune system and increases metabolism. Bee Pollen: Effective for combating fatigue, depression, and colon disorders.

WHAT OTHERS HAVE FOUND...

     "My name is Denita Kellet. In just 18 months, I have been able to lose 212 pounds and over 52 inches over my entire body! I have a non-functioning thyroid and for years have fought a losing battle with a bad weight problem. Then I found Thermo-Lift...
     This product has greatly enriched my life and my health. I wish everybody could feel as good as I feel. I'm a lot more active and able to play with my family. All I can say is, thanks 110% Thermo-Lift for what you've done for me and my life." 
     -Denita went from 340 pounds to 128 pounds in 18 months. Before and after pictures available!

     "My name is Misty McDonald. I'm a twenty-two year old working mother of two children. In just five months I have lost an amazing seventy pounds. I dropped an incredible sixteen dress sizes! At 180 pounds, I was very unhappy and depressed. I felt very insecure about myself and really didn't like to go outside the house. Then I found Thermo-Lift and what a difference it has made in my life! Thank you Thermo-Lift for changing my life and making me feel complete."
     -Misty went from 180 pounds to 110 pounds in only 5 months. Before and after pictures available!

     "I have been examined by my doctor and my weight loss has blown his mind! People that I used to work with, and even some family members, have trouble recognizing me. I wish everyone that is overweight could be sent my way so that I could talk to them. Maybe I could be of help, since I've lost 150 pounds so far."
     -Kenny went from 350 pounds to 200 pounds. Before and after pictures available!

     "I started taking Thermo-Lift March 1st of this year. My sister just kept after me. I felt happy eating, and did not want to change my life, so I didn't. I just took Thermo-Lift and kept eating. I noticed my clothes getting looser on me, but I haven't kept a scale in my house for over ten years. The middle of May, I found a commercial scale and weighed myself. I had lost 50 pounds, in just 2 1/2 months! I celebrated by buying myself a new pair of jeans. I went from a size 48 waist to a size 42!
     The best part is I am a non insulin-dependent diabetic and was taking 10 mg of diabeta every day to control my blood sugar. I monitor my blood sugar myself, and with Thermo-Lift my sugar level went below 70 for the first time in years. My doctor has now taken me off my medication, and Thermo-Lift is keeping up very good. I still watch it closely, but I hate to be chemically dependent like that. I thank my sister every week for turning me on to Thermo-Lift."
     -Bernie has lost 60 pounds so far... and is still going!

     "Over the last 10 years, I have tried a variety of weight loss methods, spent thousands of dollars and failed at all of them. By December 1995, I was the heaviest I had ever weighed-235 pounds. I had no energy. My self-esteem had hit rock bottom... I was introduced to Changes International and Thermo-Lift and have never looked back! My energy level has boosted and my weight loss increased... In total I have lost 70 pounds and went from a size 22 to a size 12. The  amazing part - it's so easy!
     -Becky went from 235 pounds to 165 pounds. Before and after pictures available!

**************************************************

NOW IT'S YOUR TURN!

Experience the incredible changes Thermo-Lift can make in YOUR life. 

Over 90% of our customers report feeling a change within 2 to 3 days!  
Even if it took YOU 2 to 3 weeks, wouldn't it be worth it?

With your order, you will receive a one month supply of 60 capsules. 
No diet is included because none is needed! 
Your small investment of only $29.95 plus $3.00 S&H will start you on the 
path to a NEW YOU... for about a dollar a day. 

Your satisfaction is 100% guaranteed or your purchase price (less S&H) will be 
cheerfully refunded upon return of the unused portion.


     TAKE ACTION RIGHT NOW! Only by starting Thermo-Lift(tm) immediately can you begin to feel the boost in energy and the increased fat burning efficiency of your new metabolic rate. Be prepared to experience a bit of a "spring" in your step when you use Thermo-Lift(tm) and remember... if you find it CURBING YOUR APPETITE, don't blame me. You were warned!


*****************************************************
TO ORDER THERMO-LIFT(tm):
Complete the form below and mail it with your check or money order payable to:

Merriman Mktg.
Dept. M127
PO Box 121
Garfield, NM 87936


Questions about the product or about the status of your order?  Call our message center at 505-267-1405 and leave your name, phone number (including area code), and the best time to reach you.

Also available -- an alternative supplement for those who desire weight loss without the energizing effects of Thermo-Lift(tm)-Changes NOW!(tm). A revolutionary combination of fibers, enzymes, vitamins and minerals designed to attract and hold fats and remove them from the digestive tract.


------------------------------------------------ CUT  HERE------------------------------------------------

                    
YES! I want ____ bottles of THERMO-LIFT(tm) at $29.95 each:     $________

YES! I want ____ bottles of Changes NOW!(tm) at $29.95 each:    $________

5% Shipping & Handling: ($3.00 minimum)                                $________

                Total Amount Enclosed (Payable to Merriman Mktg.):  $________

Dept. M127

Your Name: ______________________________________________________  
                          
Address: ________________________________________________________
                          
City, State, Zip: ___________________________________________________
                          
Phone (Day): ________________________ (Eve): _______________________


THANK YOU for your order!  Drop us a line and let us know how you like it.

************************************************

The information contained in this e-mail was derived from many medical, nutritional, and media publications. It is not intended for medical or nutritional claims but for informational and educational purposes. Please consult a health professional should the need for one be indicated.

Check here ____ to receive a free copy of the "...Big Clues" audio tape. This
informational tape, narrated by Mr. Michael Clutton, shatters some of the common myths and misconceptions about wealth and business in America. A rare blend of common sense and humor that will raise your eyebrows!











From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: eureka@eureka.abc-web.com
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 02:38:37 -0800 (PST)
To: All Eureka! Subscribers: ;
Subject: Eureka! Sat Jan 31 '98
Message-ID: <19980131082952.17577.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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============================================================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: majordomo@hk.super.net
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 00:00:30 -0800 (PST)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: RE: THE INFORMATION YOU REQUESTED
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Hi,

About three times a week I go in and delete numerous junk e-mails from my
mailbox. Recently I decided I was going try one of these MLM "scams" just to see what would happen.  I am glad I did!!  In three weeks I have brought in $11,625, and the money keeps coming in.  I urge you to try this!!  

I have removed all of of "testimonial" text from this letter to make room for my own. 
The main thing is to read and understand the "how to part".  I have discovered a few secrets to making this thing really work, the most important being VOLUME.  The more e-mails you send out the higher % of success you will have.  

Everything below this line is what was sent to me.

                          *** Print This Now For Future Reference ***
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$                       
         PRINT this letter, read the program...  THEN READ IT AGAIN !!!
This is a legitimate LEGAL money-making opportunity.  It does not require you to come 
in contact with people, do any hard work, and best of all, you never have to leave the
house, except to get the mail.  

This electronic multi-level marketing program works perfectly...100% EVERY TIME! 

             ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        OVERVIEW OF THIS EXTRAORDINARY 
              ELECTRONIC MULTI-LEVEL MARKETING PROGRAM
             ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The products in this program are a series of four business and financial reports costing
$5.00 each.  Each $5.00 order you receive from someone via "snail mail" will include:

  * $5.00 cash
  * The name of the report that they are ordering
  * The e-mail address of the buyer so that you can e-mail them the 
    report that they ordered.

To fill each order, you simply e-mail the product to the buyer.  THAT'S IT!... the $5.00
is yours! This is the GREATEST electronic multi-level marketing business anywhere! 

                           FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS EXACTLY!
    
                         ******* I  N  S  T  R  U  C  T  I  O  N  S *******

This is what you MUST do:

1. Order all 4 reports shown on the list below.  
     
     *  For each report send $5.00 CASH, YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS and YOUR
        RETURN POSTAL ADDRESS (in case of a problem) to the person whose 
        name appears on the list next to the report.
  
     *  When you place your order, make sure you order each of the four
        reports.  You will need all four reports so that you can save them
        to your computer and resell them.

2.  IMPORTANT-- DO NOT alter the names of the people who are listed next 
    to each report, or their sequence on the list, in any way other that is
    instructed below in steps "a" through "d" or you will not profit from this
    program the way you should.

    a.  Look below for the listing of available reports.

    b.  Replace the name and address under REPORT #1 with yours, moving
         the one that was there down to REPORT #2.  

    c.  Move the name and address under REPORT #2 to REPORT #3.  

    d.  Move the name and address under REPORT #3 to REPORT #4.  

    e.  The name and address that was under REPORT #4 is dropped off the 
         list and is NO DOUBT on the way to the bank.

    Please make certain you copy everyone's name and address
                            ACCURATELY!!!

3.  Take this entire letter, including the modified list of names, and save 
     it to your computer.

            ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON ALL ORDERS!!! 
                            
          ***Order each REPORT by NUMBER and NAME***

Note 1:
ALWAYS SEND $5 CASH (and make sure that it is very well Concealed, wrap it in several layers of paper) FOR EACH REPORT. BE SURE TO REQUEST EACH SPECIFIC REPORT BY NAME AND NUMBER.

Note 2: 
ALWAYS SEND YOUR ORDER VIA FIRST CLASS  MAIL AND BE SURE TO PROVIDE YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS
FOR QUICK DELIVERY.
_________________________________________________________________
REPORT #1 
"HOW TO MAKE $250,000 THROUGH MULTI-LEVEL SALES" 
ORDER REPORT #1 FROM:  

F & F ENTERPRISES
7708 ARGONAUT ST.
SEVERN, MD   21144
___________________________________________________________________
REPORT #2
"MAJOR CORPORATIONS AND MULTI-LEVEL SALES"
ORDER REPORT #2 FROM:

SSB MARKETING
641 NW 2nd AVENUE
WILLISTON, FL   32696
__________________________________________________________________
REPORT #3 
"SOURCES FOR THE BEST MAILING LISTS"
ORDER REPORT #3 FROM:

P.D. BERNARD
13120 NE 120th LN C-202
KIRKLAND, WA 98034
________________________________________________________________
REPORT #4 
"EVALUATING MULTI-LEVEL SALES PLANS"
ORDER REPORT #4 FROM:

MVPNOVS
1206 W 212th STREET
TORRANCE, CA 90502
_____________________________________________________________________
         --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
         HERE'S HOW THIS AMAZING PLAN WILL MAKE YOU $MONEY$
         --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Let's say you decide to start small just to see how it goes. Assume your goal is to get
10 people to participate on your first level. (Placing a lot of FREE ads on the internet
could EASILY get a better response.) Also assume that everyone else in YOUR BUILDING ORGANIZATION gets ONLY 10 downline members.  Follow this example for the STAGGERING results below.

1st level--your 10 members with $5......................................$50
2nd level--10 members from those 10 ($5 x 100).................$500
3rd level--10 members from those 100 ($5 x 1,000)...........$5,000
4th level--10 members from those 1,000 ($5 x 10,000).....$50,000
                                                   THIS TOTALS-----------> $55,550
                                          
                            *******TIPS FOR SUCCESS*******

 *  Send for the four reports IMMEDIATELY so you will have them when 
    the orders start coming in because:

 *  When you receive a $5 order, you MUST send out the requested
    product/report to comply with the U.S. Postal & Lottery Laws, Title
    18,Sections 1302 and 1341 or Title 18,  Section 3005 in the U.S. Code,
    also Code of Federal Regs. vol. 16, Sections 255 and 436, which state 
    that "a product or service must be exchanged for money received."

 *  ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON THE ORDERS YOU RECEIVE.

                          *******YOUR SUCCESS GUIDELINE*******

You MUST receive 10 to 20 orders for REPORT #1!  THIS IS A MUST!  If you don't within two weeks, advertise more and send out more programs until you do.  Then, a couple of weeks later you should receive at least 100 orders for REPORT #2.  If you don't, advertise more and send out more programs until you do.  Once you have received 100, or more orders for REPORT #2, YOU CAN RELAX, because you will be on your way to the BANK! -OR-  You can DOUBLE your efforts!

REMEMBER: Every time your name is moved down on the list you are placed
                    in front of a DIFFERENT report.  You can KEEP TRACK of your
                    PROGRESS by watching which report people are ordering from
                    you. 
                                                IT'S THAT EASY!!!




    







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 16632040@msn.com
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 02:23:24 -0800 (PST)
To: 19888765@msn.com
Subject: ALERT - Internet Fraud and Spying
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Webmaster.... This publication has been a best seller.

I thought you would like to see it.


ARE YOU BEING INVESTIGATED ?



Learn the Internet tools that are used to investigate you, your 

friends, neighbors, enemies, Employees or anyone else!  My 

huge report "SNOOPING THE INTERNET" of Internet sites 

will give you...


* Thousands of Internet locations to look up people, credit, 

Social security, current or past employment, Driving records, 

medical information, addresses, phone numbers, Maps to city 

locations...



Every day the media (television, radio, and newspapers) are 

full of stories about PERSONAL INFORMATION being used, 

traded, and sold over the Internet... usually without your 

permission or knowledge. 


With my report I show you HOW IT'S DONE!!!
	

It's amazing..

	

Locate a debtor that is hiding, or get help in finding hidden 

assets.



*   Find that old romantic interest.


*   Find e-mail, telephone or address information on just about 

     anyone! Unlisted phone numbers can often be found 

     through some of these sites!!



Perhaps you're working on a family "tree" or history. The 

Internet turns what once was years of work into hours of 

DISCOVERY & INFORMATION.




      Check birth, death, adoption or social security records.


MILITARY

      Check service records of Army, Navy, Air Force or Marine 

      Corps. Find out who's been telling the truth and who's been 

      lying. Perhaps you can uncover the next lying politician!!!
 


FELLOW EMPLOYEES;


* Find out if your fellow employee was jailed on sex charges, 

or has other "skeletons" in the closet!!



PERFORM BACKGROUND CHECKS;
  
   Check credit, driving or criminal records, Verify income or 

   educational claims, Find out Military history and discipline, 

   previous political affiliations, etc.


YOUR KID'S FRIENDS;


   Find out the background of your children's friends & dates.


WHAT'S THE LAW? STOP GUESSING!!


* Look up laws, direct from law libraries around the world. Is 

  that new business plan legal?? 


NEW JOB?  NEW TOWN?  NEW LIFE?


   Employment ads from around the world can be found on the 

   Internet. Get a new job and disappear!



The Internet can tell you just about ANYTHING, if you know 

WHERE to look. 



BONUS REPORT!!!!


Check your credit report and use the Internet to force credit 

bureaus to remove derogatory information. My special

BONUS REPORT included as part of the "SNOOPING THE 

INTERNET" collection reveals all sorts of credit tricks, legal

and for "information purposes only" some of the ILLEGAL 

tricks.


Research YOURSELF first!


What you find will scare you.


If you believe that the information that is compiled on you 

should be as easily available to you as it is to those who 

compile it, then. . .

You want to order the SNOOPING 

THE INTERNET report.


This huge report is WHERE YOU START! Once you 

locate these FREE private, college and government 

web sites, you'll find even MORE links to information 

search engines!

YOU CAN FIND OUT ANYTHING ABOUT ANYBODY 

ANY TIME using the Internet!!!!

SEVERAL WAYS TO ORDER !!!


  1) WE TAKE:  AMERICAN EXPRESS OR
    
                          VISA <> MASTERCARD
 
        TYPE OF CARD  AMX / VISA / MC??_______________

        EXPIRATION DATE   ___________________________
 
        NAME ON CREDIT CARD________________________
 
       CREDIT CARD #________________________________
 
        BILLING ADDRESS ____________________________
 
        CITY_________________________________________
 
        STATE________________ZIP_____________________
 
        PHONE INCLUDE AREA CODE___________________
 
        WE WILL BILL 39.95 to your account

        SHIPPING  COST OF 3.00 FIRST CLASS MAIL

        SHIPPING COST OF  15.00  24 HOUR EXPRESS MAIL
 
        SALES TAX (2.90) added to CA residents 
 
  >>> Send $39.95 ($42.85 in CA) cash, check or money

order to:

  >>> CASINO CHICO
  >>> Background Investigations Division
  >>> 311 Nord Ave.
  >>> P.O. Box 4331
  >>> Chico, CA 95927-4331


  2) Send the same above requested credit card 

information to above address. 


   3) Fax the same above credit card information to 530-895-

8470

   4) Call phone # 530-876-4285.  This is a 24 hour phone 

number to place a CREDIT CARD order.

   5) FAX A COPY of your signed check to 530-895-8470.

       This is an EXCELLENT way to order without a credit card!

    
 I will RUSH back to you SAME DAY my "SNOOPING 

THE INTERNET" report!

Log on to the Internet and in moments you will fully 

understand...

 What information is available -- and exact Internet 

site to get there!

2nd BONUS!!!!


Along with the report we will send a 3 1/2" disk with 

sites already "HOT LINKED". No need to type in 

those addresses. Simply click on the URL address 

and "PRESTO" you are at the web site!!! 


Personal ads, logs of personal e-mail, mention of 

individuals anywhere on the Internet are "yours for the 

taking" with this report.


Lists of resources to find even more information 

(private Investigation companies, etc..) 


Order surveillance equipment (if legal in your state)
  

Send anonymous e-mail
   
Research companies 

Research technology

Locate military records

 
FIND INFORMATION ON CRIMINALS 

   Find Wanted fugitives - perhaps even a close 

associate!

ABSOLUTE SATISFACTION GUARANTEED:

Your satisfaction is 100% guaranteed, just return the material for
 a full refund within 30 days if you aren't 100% satisfied.

This offer is from a private company. Casino Chico / R Jon Scott Hall
 publications is not associated with or endorsed by, AOL,
MSN, or any other Internet service provider.

Copyright 1998  All Rights Reserved

R Jon Scott Hall Publications. 










From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: gitpro@mailcity.com
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 00:07:03 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: Mako Capital shares to triple in next few months, projects research company
Message-ID: <199811160806.AAA27640@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Mako Capital shares to triple in next few months, projects 
research company!

Mako Capital intent to merge with Sports Group International and 
market
Spalding Sports Drinks worldwide.

OTC BB - MAKO 3/4

What do Kiki Vandeweghe, Dorothy Hamill, Joe Namath, Bill Walton, 
Larry
Holmes and Clyde Drexler all have in common? They are all 
shareholders of a
dynamic sports drink company called Sports Group International

Mako Capital

On October 19, 1998 Mako Capital made a blockbuster announcement 
that was
obviously overlooked by the investment community. Mako signed a 
letter of
intent to merge with Sports Group International. Sports Group is a 
dynamic
company with an experienced, proven management team. Sports Group 
has
revolutionary products in the multi-billion dollar sports drink 
market.
We instantly fell in love with their oxygenated water. This is 
water with
seven times the oxygen of H20. It is a big hit with marathon 
runners and we
feel that there is a huge market for this product. They also have 
newly
formulated sports drinks to satisfy every market. Sports drinks 
designed for
kids, women and bodybuilders. They also have powdered products.
The key to this company is that their sports drinks are marketed 
under the
Spalding name. Spalding is one of the most recognized names in 
sports. You
can't buy that type of name recognition. We are told that the 
company has
1.2 million cases pre-sold for 1999 which should bring in more 
than twenty
million in revenue and 15% in profit (approximately 3 million). 
That would
be better than one dollar per share in earnings. Sports Groups 
management
team is headed by Kiki Vandeweghe, the former NBA All Star and 
Dean Miller,
the star executive of Megafoods. As president of Megafoods, Dean 
saw the
company grow from a couple of stores to 70 stores and $800 million 
in
revenue.
Realizing that much of the great success behind Gatorade was the 
advertising
campaign featuring Michael Jordan, SGI has procured promotions and
endorsements from athletes who are current shareholders like, 
Clyde Drexler,
Kiki Vanderweghe, Bill Walton, Larry Holmes, Joe Namath, Dorothy 
Hamill and
others.
Mako Capital has the right combination of great products, a proven
management team and a name recognized around the world, which will 
lead them
into the next millenium. We are looking for the stock to trade $2 
- $3 short
term and $5 - $7 by summer of 1999.

For more information contact: Financial Internet Group 
800-959-9122


Disclaimer:  Mako Capital has paid Freedom Rock Partners 150,000 
shares of
free trading stock and options to purchase 100,000 shares at 
$1.00. For more
information please see our disclaimer.


NOTE: 
For those on the internet who do not want to recieve exciting 
messages such as this.....

*We strive to comply with all state and federal laws and to send 
ads only to interested parties.

*This ad is not intended for nor do we knowingly send to 
Washington State residents. 

* OR CLICK_HERE_TO_GOTO_REMOVE-LIST.COM   (http://remove-list.com)
Remove-List is a free public service offering to help the general 
public
get removed from commercial mailings lists and has not sent this 
message.
If you want their help please add your name to their list and we 
you will
not receive a commercial email from us or any other member bulk 
emailer.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: pkmrght1823@aol.com
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 14:57:15 -0800 (PST)
To: pkmrt1245993@aol.com
Subject: Prodigious Sports Picks
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




     Hello, wouldn't it feel really great to know exactly who was going to win 
the NBA game between Houston Rockets at Cleveland Cavs and our 
BIG PICK in college basketball game, Kentucky at Georgia.  Well, that is
why Prodigious Picks and Associates is here.  If you have called us this past 
week, we know that you have already won big.  We have picked 15 of the last
19 games by the line, going 6-2 in the NFL playoff games and 9-2  in the last 
eleven bowl games this week.  I will inform you that we decide our picks by
using a consensus system analysis program by taking the picks of the top 
SEVEN best handicappers in the country.  We continue to prove that this
system is the best in the business.  You can't go wrong.  Don't lose your money
trying to pick the games yourself or by even calling some other handicapper 
whose price per call is much more expensive than ours.  Let us do the work and 
you get the MONEY!  So give us a call Monday and we WILL deliver!  

                                                   1-900-773-9777
                                                   Only $10 per call   
                                                  Must be 18 or older
P.S.   After you cash in on Tuesday, give us a call Wednesday for more
         basketball action. We will also be having the winning picks for the 
         AFC and NFC championship games after Friday.
        
		       

                                         

 








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: works4me@ix.netcom.com
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 21:28:40 -0800 (PST)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: Happy New Year!
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


OnLineNow wishes you a Happy and Prosperous 1998.

OnLineNow World Wide Directories
http://onlinenow.net/frames/




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Brian@HyperSoft.Net" 
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 06:07:16 -0800 (PST)
To: "'cypherpunks-announce@toad.com>
Subject: UNSUBSCRIBE CYPHERPUNKS-ANNOUNCE
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


UNSUBSCRIBE CYPHERPUNKS-ANNOUNCE





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "bRIAN@4qsi.com" 
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 06:07:35 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks-announce@toad.com
Subject: UNSUBSCRIBE CYPHERPUNKS-ANNOUNCE
Message-ID: <9801080907.ZM10801@csihost.4qsi.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


UNSUBSCRIBE CYPHERPUNKS-ANNOUNCE




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Daniel K Engdahl 
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 08:48:03 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks-announce@toad.com
Subject: UNSUBSCRIBE CYPHERPUNKS-ANNOUNCE
Message-ID: <34B50322.19361078@abc.se>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


UNSUBSCRIBE CYPHERPUNKS-ANNOUNCE




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ole Jacobsen 
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 10:25:42 -0800 (PST)
To: "brian@csihost.4qsi.com>
Subject: Re: UNSUBSCRIBE CYPHERPUNKS-ANNOUNCE
In-Reply-To: <9801080907.ZM10801@csihost.4qsi.com>
Message-ID: <34B50B55.4F04@post4.tele.dk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


bRIAN@4qsi.com wrote:
> 
> UNSUBSCRIBE CYPHERPUNKS-ANNOUNCE

remove me (olejac@post4.tele.dk or mlj@earthling.net) from the list too.

thanks, martin.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 00000@hotmail.com
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 22:55:28 -0800 (PST)
To: Everyone@the.net
Subject: Make $100 everytime the phone rings!!
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


    ==============================================
    "Internet Marketing Warriors Secret Site!"(tm)
            Copyright 1997 by Allen Says  
    ==============================================

       " I Never Made A Dime On The Internet "
                     ..UNTIL..

                I GOT MAD AS HELL !!

"After That, I've Made Money Every Day Since And I'll Show 
     You Exactly How To Get Started Doing What I Did!"


             The Start of the Warriors!!

 One night, after a long period of NO responses to all my 
ads, I compeletly flipped out! The months of hard work with
out any rewards had reached a boiling point and I decided to 
try direct e-mail marketing! 

I grabbed a pen and wrote the words...

            THE INTERNET MARKETING WARRIORS!

 I contacted a few select people who wanted to be dealers for 
my site and overnight we started taking in 10, 20, 30 and more 
orders a day! I had found the Power of Direct E-mail!!

 Why am I telling you this?

 Because the market is unlimited AND I can guarantee you if 
you will allow me to show you just a couple secrets about 
who is "really" making money on the net, that I can also get 
YOU to making money every day...starting immediately!!

 Join the Warriors today. And if I'm wrong, you have up to a
full year to get the small membership fee back. No risk, no
questions asked!

As a member of the Warriors Secret Site and Forum
you'll learn...

# How To Create Direct Response Web Sites that Make 
  People Buy - BEFORE They Leave! 

# How to Manipulate Search Engines and Get Hundreds 
  of Hits a Day in Less than a Week! POWERFUL!!!!! 
  (one of the BEST kept secrets) 

# How to Begin Selling Hot Information People Want 
  the 'Same Day' You Get My Report! I'll show you 
  where to get all the books you want - Hundreds 
  of them! 

# Fax-on-Demand Profits are Incredible - How to Turn 
  Other Peoples Fax Machines Into Your Own Personal 
  Printers and Create Huge, Constant Profits! 

# Secrets of Bulk E-Mail! Yes, it does work - BIG TIME! 
  But, there's ways to do it and never have a problem. 
  Never lose your Internet Service and Still Make Big 
  Money Every Day! 

# How to Make $1,000's Every Week With Low Cost 
  Classified's In Weekly Newspapers Across The United 
  States! Hidden sources let you get started Now! 

# How to collect all the e-mail addresses you want from 
  the Internet - For Free! Even have them delivered to 
  your e-mail address for nothing! 

# How to create a steady stream of buyers from 1000's of 
  newsgroups! 

# Exactly how to turn 1000's of prospects into Buyers 
  and Die-Hard, Loyal Customers For Life! It's so EASY! 
  (you'll LOVE this one) 

# Seduce the Mind and Activate the Emotions of Your 
  Prospects So They Buy NOW! Killer Strategies Used By 
  The Masters of Direct Response! 

# Powerful Secrets to Multiply Yourself Over the Web 
  and Lead 1000's of People to Your Site Every Day! If 
  You Can't Make Money With This You Might Be In Trouble! 
  ...It's NOT MLM! 

    And that's just what's in the Special Report!!

Check out the Software, E-mail Addresses, Special Reports 
and Books-on-Disk I have collected over the last 3 years
that are also Inside the Warrior's Secret Site!
               	
# Over 500,000 Email addresses You Can Download Right Now! 
  Thousands more being added every week!!

# 5 Different Email Address Extractors!...one extracts 
  addresses at 60,000 per hour!

# Free Web-Based Bulk E-Mailer - Awesome! Mail Your 
  Message At Rates Up to 250,000 An Hour!!

# How to use a Free Email Address Stripper on the secret site 
  to go onto aol and collect 1000's of 'targeted' email 
  addresses from the forums, message boards and member 
  directory!! Every day...FREE!!!

# A Copy of The Special Report: How To Make At Least Make 
  $1,600 a Week Online..Starting Now! 

# Learn the Secrets of BulkMail - How to Setup a Free Email 
  Extracting and Mailing System Using Freely Available 
  Programs!!

# 38 of the 'Hottest' Marketing Reports Ever Written!!

# 6 "Must Have" Books On Disk (the "forbidden" secrets and 
  strategies of getting 1000's of customers from the net!)

# Lifetime Subscription to the "Internet Marketing Warriors 
  Letter!"...Every New Issue Posted To The Secret Site....

 You Will Also Have Lifetime Access To The Warrior Forum
  Where You Will Find Your Every Question Answered And 
       Put Your Business Light Years Ahead Of The 
                     Competition!!

              "Inside The Warrior Forum"

# How To Accept Credit Cards For Your Business..NOW! You DO 
  NOT need a merchant account. Find THE Sources That Will 
  Get You Going Today!!

# Meta Tags - How to get top listings in search engines!

# In depth talks on getting around AOL blocking!! Warriors 
  get through when no one else can!!

# In depth reviews of all major bulk mailing & extracting 
  software - Netcontact, Floodgate, Stealth (all versions), 
  E-Mail Magnet, Extractor Pro and more - Find out the truth 
  BEFORE you buy!(Honest Reviews - Not by sellers - but by 
  actual buyers & users!)

# Access to one of our members bulk emailing support site...
  tons of free features, value and help!!

# Members who will submit your site to hundreds of search 
  engines for free...just because you are a Warrior!!

# Discover the secrets and power of CGI/PERL in bulk 
  mailing!!

# More Secrets about Autoresponders!!

# Killer Headlines & Sales Advice!!

# How to print your own money....legally!!

# Tricks to cut down on flames!! One dealer is making a ton 
  of money using this trick and gets very few flames!!

# Softsell vs. Hardsell....Which works best?

# Make Every Ad of Yours a Success!!

# Bulk Email Myth #1....

# Part 1: Copywriting Secrets! Part 2: Copywriting Secrets!

# Avoid this disaster when bulk mailing!!

# Sources for the latest bulk email accounts!!

# Some members are forming bulk e-mail co-ops and partner 
  groups right now!!

     Need to hear from other Warriors?

Allen, 
This is absolutely unbelievable. Within two days I 
have already made in excess of $200.00 and it only 
took about 2 hours to do every thing. The marketing 
reports that you supply are absolutely outstanding!!  
I have to say....my hat goes off to you. I am glad 
that there is someone out there who will give your 
moneys worth and a whole lot more!!
Thanks a Million,
J.R. (Florida)

Hi Allen,
Just a quick thank you note for creating the Warrior 
site. After a full two years of banging my head 
against the monitor screen, trying to make money on 
the internet, I finally have learned the secrets that 
I needed to make it all happen. Sponsoring people into 
my MLM program has never been easier and I don't worry 
anymore about losing my internet connection for sending 
bulk e-mail.  The contacts I have made in the forum 
have turned into pure gold and will continue to further 
educate me in the proper methods of internet marketing.  
Keep up the great work Allen!
Best Regards,
John Corbett
J&D Marketing

"I have been marketing online for a while now and I 
have more than tripled my former income working at my 
job (I have been fulltime in internet marketing for 
about 6 months now) and I only work around 15 to 20 
hours a week. During my time in this business I have 
been in contact with most of the major marketers online 
and I recommend Allen Says as the most honest and helpful 
individual I have dealt with in this business. His 
Marketing package is the best value on theinternet. 
Anyone who is thinking about doing any type of business 
on the web needs to be a member of the Internet Marketing 
Warriors."
Thank You, 
Terry Dean

Thanks for your kindness, and you can quote me on 
this: a veritable treasure-trove of money making 
ideas, the package has saved me hundreds of hours 
of research time. It is well worth joining! 
Regards,
Haider Aziz 

Allen -
This is the best $25 I ever spent. Thanks for the 
honesty & quality web site.
- Steve Traino

Allen
Joining the Internet Marketing Warrior family has 
been very rewarding to me. Prior to becoming a member, 
I wasted so much time on the net unsuccessfully 
finding the kind of information & internet marketing 
techniques that are available to me now as a Warrior 
member. In addition to all the money making information 
on the private site, what amazes me the most is the great 
contribution of information & help provided to everyone 
by top gun professional fellow Warrior members on the 
forum. I recommend this site to anyone serious about 
making money on the net.
Best of Success,
Alan Alvarez
President
South Pointe Financial Corp.

.."Started reading your report last night and..COULDN'T 
PUT IT DOWN! I got so caught up in it I didn't eat supper. 
It's jam-packed with over a dozen tried and true MONEY 
MAKING techniques! I also like the fact that you really 
care about your clients and are willing to talk and answer 
questions..refreshing in the vast world of cyberspace! If 
you Email Allen, he gets back with ya!" 
Sid Menough 
Florida 
-------
                  Join Us Today!
                       ***

         Only $24.95 For A Limited Time!!
               LIFETIME MEMBERSHIP!
       Full One Year Money-Back Guarantee!
                    Order Now!

The Complete Internet Marketing Warrior Package Is 
Availiable For Immediate Download At The Warrior's 
                  Private Site!

            Fast 24 Hour Ordering by 
      Direct Fax Order Line: 1-903-838-5534

     You'll Get Your Login Info The Same Day...
            Sometimes Within Minutes!

        ---------------------------------
         Warrior's Membership Order Form
        ---------------------------------

[]YES! Sign Me Up For Lifetime Access And Membership 
  To The Warriors Private Site For Only $24.95

[]I am paying by []Credit Card []Check []Money Order.
      (Please Make Payable To: Allen Says)

 Name:______________________________________

 Address:___________________________________

 City:______________________________________

 State:_________________Zip:________________

 Your Email Address:________________________
 
 Dealer Code#:  604

          --------------------------
          Visa\Mastercard Order Form
          --------------------------

 Name On Card:______________________________

 Credit Card#_______________________________

 Exp. Date:_________________________________
    (Charge Will Appear As "Info-World")


        Voice-Mail Order Line: 1-903-832-6067
NOTE: This is a line for leaving your credit card order
on our voice-mail system. Because my dealers bulk email
and a lot of people hate it, we don't answer this phone
"live" anymore.(no person could answer my phone and stay 
sane for very long :-) However, it is very safe to leave 
your Full Name, Credit Card #, The Expiration Date, Your 
Email Address and The Dealer Code#:  604 and I Will Get 
Back To You The Same Day With Your Access To The Site!!

 Speak Slowly and Take As Much Time As You Need!
    You'll Get Your Login Info The Same Day!!
          
     Direct Fax Order Line: 1-903-838-5534
       (Fax your order 24 hours a day!)

Order By Mail:

                 Allen Says
            1311 Old River Road
             Starks, La. 70661
=================================================






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: pkmrght487@aol.com
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 22:56:56 -0800 (PST)
To: pkmrght090@aol.com
Subject: PRODIGIOUS NFL PICKS
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




     Hello SPORTSFANS!!!!  If you are an avid sportsfan like myself, then I 
know you will enjoy this ad.  Who are we?  We are Prodigious Picks and
Associates.  What are we?  We are one of the BEST sports handicapping
systems in the country.  Our predictions are decided  by a consensus 
analysis system that takes the predictions of SEVEN OF THE BEST
HANDICAPPERS IN THE COUNTRY!!!!  If you are one of the thousands 
of callers that has phoned us in the past weeks, we know that we have 
already proven ourselves to YOU.  If you have not had a chance to give 
us a call yet, we want to inform you that we went 19-6 by the line in the past
two weeks.  That is 76 PERCENT!!!  This includes winning 10 of 12 BIG PICKS
and going 6-2 in the NFL playoffs.  For this reason, we feel extremely confident
that we have the two winning picks for Sunday's championship games that
features DENVER at PITTSBURGH and GREEN BAY at SAN FRANCISCO. 
We are so sure of our predictions that we are calling them the TWO BIGGEST
PICKS OF THE YEAR!!!  Don't lose your money trying to pick the games 
yourself or by even calling some other handicapper whose price per call is 
much more expensive than ours.  Let us do the work and you get the MONEY!  
So give us a call after Friday and WE WILL DELIVER!!!!!!!!  

                                                   1-900-773-9777
                                                   Only $10 per call   
                                                  Must be 18 or older
P.S.   After you WIN 1000s on Sunday, give us a call on Monday for our
         winning basketball picks.  We will also have the winning SUPER
         BOWL PICK after January 22.
		       

                                         

 








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: TKettle@juno.com
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 17:03:02 -0800 (PST)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: College Financing
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



To whomever it may concern:

I am trying desperately to raise money for college. I have applied for numerous grants and
loans to no avail. This is my last chance. I will not burden you with the entire explanation
of my shortcomings. A friend of mine bought this e-mailer for me in the hopes that it works.
His plan is this: If I send a request for one dollar to millions of people, knowing that only
about 10% of you will actually read it and maybe 1/10th of those who read it will send me a
dollar, I might get enough to sustain my studies for a few years. It does not make me happy to
request alms, but I truly see no other alternatives.

     Those of you who wish to send me a single dollar may send it to the address listed below.
Nothing else will be sent by me to your account. This is not a mailing list. Those with
questions may reach me at Tkettle@Juno.com. Thank you for your time and patience.

Sincerely,

Thomas Kenneth Wootten
24 Victoria Drive
South Burlington, VT
05403






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: TKettle@juno.com
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 20:51:04 -0800 (PST)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: College Financing
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



To whomever it may concern:

I am trying desperately to raise money for college. I have applied for numerous grants and
loans to no avail. This is my last chance. I will not burden you with the entire explanation
of my shortcomings. A friend of mine bought this e-mailer for me in the hopes that it works.
His plan is this: If I send a request for one dollar to millions of people, knowing that only
about 10% of you will actually read it and maybe 1/10th of those who read it will send me a
dollar, I might get enough to sustain my studies for a few years. It does not make me happy to
request alms, but I truly see no other alternatives.

     Those of you who wish to send me a single dollar may send it to the address listed below.
Nothing else will be sent by me to your account. This is not a mailing list. Those with
questions may reach me at Tkettle@Juno.com. Thank you for your time and patience.

Sincerely,

Thomas Kenneth Wootten
24 Victoria Drive
South Burlington, VT
05403






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 59528925@aol.com
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 00:29:44 -0800 (PST)
To: It'sTheLease@WeCanDo.com
Subject: NEED A BRAND NEW CAR???
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




CAN YOU IMAGINE DRIVING THE CAR OF YOUR DREAMS!!!



Introducing The Deal Of The Decade!!
Where Your Dream Car Is Now A Reality!!

For a ZERO($0.00) Down Payment....

And just $100 Per/Month.....
($395 Yearly Membership Fee)



You Can Drive Away In A Brand New Car 
Of Your Dreams Ranging In Price From $12,000....
 
To As High As $350,000 or More!!!

*** Does A Convertible Bentley Rolls Royce Ring A Bell!!!***

************************************************************************************************
***BELIEVE IT OR NOT THE SKY IS NOT THE ONLY LIMIT***
*****************************************************************************************

No Matter What Make or Model You Choose 
For Your Brand New Dream Car....

=========================================
***I REPEAT**I REPEAT***I REPEAT***I REPEAT***
=========================================

YOUR DOWN PAYMENT WILL STILL BE ZERO($0.00)!!!

YOUR MONTHLY PAYMENT WILL STILL BE ONLY $100!!!
($395 Yearly Membership Fee)


NO Capitalized cost reduction.   NO hassle with car salesmen.
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95% Approval, regardless of past credit history.


If this sound like an Unbelievable Dream.....

Wake Up And Smell The Coffee!!!

Because that Unbelievable Dream Is Now Coming True!! :o)


Call (714) 957-3417
	

Click Here To Be Removed......

And I Guess You Will Continue To Keep On Dreaming :o(


P.S. Good Things Comes To Those Who Wait!!!

     BUT NOT TO THOSE WHO WAIT TOO LONG!!!























































































































































From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 0000000@hotmail.com
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 21:09:04 -0800 (PST)
To: Everyone@the.net
Subject: Free Internet Service
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Fellow Networker,

               WE WILL EITHER FIND A WAY OR MAKE ONE."   
                     - HANNIBAL

            " AS YOU SOW, SO SHALL YOU REAP"
                      - MARK 9-23

Stop the Pornography

A Brand-New Family Friendly ISP is now
 in Pre-Launch!  This ISP Blocks the pornographic Emails and sites.

Get your Free Self-Replicating Web Page now to hold your 
position close to the top!



CLICK HERE TO GET MORE INFO. !!!  Please put isp as subject


CLICK TO BE REMOVED FROM OUR LIST  Please put remove as subject

Refer 5 friends and you monthly service is free

Looking forward to welcoming you aboard!

Sincerely,

 Frank
 IQI





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: pkmrght193@aol.com
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 11:46:44 -0800 (PST)
To: pkmrght193@aol.com
Subject: SUPER BOWL XXXII PICK
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




    Hello SPORTS FANS!!!!  Wouldn't it feel really great to know exactly
who was going to win Sunday's SUPER BOWL match-up between the
Green Bay Packers and the Denver Broncos?  If you are an avid 
sports fan like myself, then I know you will enjoy this ad.  We are 
Prodigious Picks and Associates and we have created the best system
for picking sports games.  We decide our picks by using a consensus 
analysis system that takes the picks of SEVEN OF THE BEST 
HANDICAPPERS IN THE COUNTRY!!!!  If you are one of the hundreds
of callers that has given us a call in the past few weeks, we know that
we have already proven ourselves to YOU.  If you have not had a chance
to give us a call yet, we want to inform you that we went 33-16 by the line
in the past three weeks.  This includes going 7-2-1 in the NFL PLAYOFFS.
Don't lose your money trying to pick the game yourself or by even calling 
some other handicapper whose price per call is much more expensive
than ours.  Let us do the work and you get the MONEY!  So give us a call
this weekend and WE WILL DELIVER THE WINNING PICK FOR
SUPER BOWL XXXII!!!  
                                                  
                                                    1-900-773-9777
                                                   Only $10 per call   
                                                  Must be 18 or older
P.S.   After you take the bank on Super Bowl Sunday, give us a call
         after 4:00 P.M EST on Monday for TWO winning basketball
         picks.

                                         

 








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: info@mda.net
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 00:29:49 -0800 (PST)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: PRO2H PRODUCTS - NATURAL SKIN WEAR
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
IF YOU WISH TO BE REMOVED FROM THE MAILING LIST
PLEASE E-MAIL TO:  remove@mda.net AND PUT REMOVE 
IN THE SUBJECT HEADER.  THANK YOU.////////////////
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

	PRO 2H PRODUCTS


	NATURAL SKIN WEAR - 100% MONEY BACK GUARANTEE!!!


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SKINWEAR - a high performance, botanical skincare line that blends the
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address the needs of today's cosmetic buyer by providing product choices
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		ENVIRONMENTALLY RESPONSIBLE
In today's rapidly changing world, we are confronted with the challenge
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We are known throughout the industry for our integrity, reliability and product 
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INTRODUCING........Pro ALPHA H2


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		COMMON USES:


*  Sun Damaged Skin		*  Age Spots

*  Uneven Pigmentation		*  Blemishes
*  Premature Aging		*  Wrinkles


*  Rough Dry Patches		*  Smooth Fine Lines
	THE BEAUTY OF ALPHA H2


*This natural fruit acid complex works with your natural process to help
achieve healthier, younger-looking skin.


*Green Tea Leaves Extract helps to reduce irritation associated with Alpha Hydroxy


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*  Cradle Cap	*  Chemical Peel	*  Diaper Rash


*  Dermabrassion*  Dermatitis		*  Dry Skin


*  Eczema	*  Flea Bites		*  Fungus


*  Fever Blisters	*  Hives			*  Insect Bites
*  Itching	*  Impetigo		*  Jock Itch


*  Keratosis	*  Lupus		*  Psoriasis


*  Poison Ivy	*  Poison Oak		*  Razor Burns


*  Rashes	*  Radiation		*  Rosacea


*  Shingles	*  Burns		*  Stretch Marks


*  Sunburn	*  Wind Burns	*  Very Dry Skin


*  Stops itching caused by poison oak, poison ivy, insect bites and rashes.
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*  Heals athlete's foot and other fungus.
*  16 Hour moisturizer.
*  Excellent skin softener, it protects against environmental pollutants.


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: action@psp.ink
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 20:45:28 -0800 (PST)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: Success Magazine - over 100 yrs.
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


New! From ATA Publications:

Now you can get in on the ground floor selling Success Magazine and Entrepreneur Magazine, two well known and well respected business publications.

Now you can earn over $100,000 this year selling products that everybody wants. It will be so simple!

Incredibly low investment, under $45!!! GET IN NOW!!!

4x7 Progressive Matrix pays over $100,000.

NEW  Jan.20,1998!!!!

For more info call: 800-338-1349





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: majordomo@hk.super.net
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 00:00:30 -0800 (PST)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: RE: THE INFORMATION YOU REQUESTED
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Hi,

About three times a week I go in and delete numerous junk e-mails from my
mailbox. Recently I decided I was going try one of these MLM "scams" just to see what would happen.  I am glad I did!!  In three weeks I have brought in $11,625, and the money keeps coming in.  I urge you to try this!!  

I have removed all of of "testimonial" text from this letter to make room for my own. 
The main thing is to read and understand the "how to part".  I have discovered a few secrets to making this thing really work, the most important being VOLUME.  The more e-mails you send out the higher % of success you will have.  

Everything below this line is what was sent to me.

                          *** Print This Now For Future Reference ***
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$                       
         PRINT this letter, read the program...  THEN READ IT AGAIN !!!
This is a legitimate LEGAL money-making opportunity.  It does not require you to come 
in contact with people, do any hard work, and best of all, you never have to leave the
house, except to get the mail.  

This electronic multi-level marketing program works perfectly...100% EVERY TIME! 

             ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        OVERVIEW OF THIS EXTRAORDINARY 
              ELECTRONIC MULTI-LEVEL MARKETING PROGRAM
             ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The products in this program are a series of four business and financial reports costing
$5.00 each.  Each $5.00 order you receive from someone via "snail mail" will include:

  * $5.00 cash
  * The name of the report that they are ordering
  * The e-mail address of the buyer so that you can e-mail them the 
    report that they ordered.

To fill each order, you simply e-mail the product to the buyer.  THAT'S IT!... the $5.00
is yours! This is the GREATEST electronic multi-level marketing business anywhere! 

                           FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS EXACTLY!
    
                         ******* I  N  S  T  R  U  C  T  I  O  N  S *******

This is what you MUST do:

1. Order all 4 reports shown on the list below.  
     
     *  For each report send $5.00 CASH, YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS and YOUR
        RETURN POSTAL ADDRESS (in case of a problem) to the person whose 
        name appears on the list next to the report.
  
     *  When you place your order, make sure you order each of the four
        reports.  You will need all four reports so that you can save them
        to your computer and resell them.

2.  IMPORTANT-- DO NOT alter the names of the people who are listed next 
    to each report, or their sequence on the list, in any way other that is
    instructed below in steps "a" through "d" or you will not profit from this
    program the way you should.

    a.  Look below for the listing of available reports.

    b.  Replace the name and address under REPORT #1 with yours, moving
         the one that was there down to REPORT #2.  

    c.  Move the name and address under REPORT #2 to REPORT #3.  

    d.  Move the name and address under REPORT #3 to REPORT #4.  

    e.  The name and address that was under REPORT #4 is dropped off the 
         list and is NO DOUBT on the way to the bank.

    Please make certain you copy everyone's name and address
                            ACCURATELY!!!

3.  Take this entire letter, including the modified list of names, and save 
     it to your computer.

            ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON ALL ORDERS!!! 
                            
          ***Order each REPORT by NUMBER and NAME***

Note 1:
ALWAYS SEND $5 CASH (and make sure that it is very well Concealed, wrap it in several layers of paper) FOR EACH REPORT. BE SURE TO REQUEST EACH SPECIFIC REPORT BY NAME AND NUMBER.

Note 2: 
ALWAYS SEND YOUR ORDER VIA FIRST CLASS  MAIL AND BE SURE TO PROVIDE YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS
FOR QUICK DELIVERY.
_________________________________________________________________
REPORT #1 
"HOW TO MAKE $250,000 THROUGH MULTI-LEVEL SALES" 
ORDER REPORT #1 FROM:  

F & F ENTERPRISES
7708 ARGONAUT ST.
SEVERN, MD   21144
___________________________________________________________________
REPORT #2
"MAJOR CORPORATIONS AND MULTI-LEVEL SALES"
ORDER REPORT #2 FROM:

SSB MARKETING
641 NW 2nd AVENUE
WILLISTON, FL   32696
__________________________________________________________________
REPORT #3 
"SOURCES FOR THE BEST MAILING LISTS"
ORDER REPORT #3 FROM:

P.D. BERNARD
13120 NE 120th LN C-202
KIRKLAND, WA 98034
________________________________________________________________
REPORT #4 
"EVALUATING MULTI-LEVEL SALES PLANS"
ORDER REPORT #4 FROM:

MVPNOVS
1206 W 212th STREET
TORRANCE, CA 90502
_____________________________________________________________________
         --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
         HERE'S HOW THIS AMAZING PLAN WILL MAKE YOU $MONEY$
         --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Let's say you decide to start small just to see how it goes. Assume your goal is to get
10 people to participate on your first level. (Placing a lot of FREE ads on the internet
could EASILY get a better response.) Also assume that everyone else in YOUR BUILDING ORGANIZATION gets ONLY 10 downline members.  Follow this example for the STAGGERING results below.

1st level--your 10 members with $5......................................$50
2nd level--10 members from those 10 ($5 x 100).................$500
3rd level--10 members from those 100 ($5 x 1,000)...........$5,000
4th level--10 members from those 1,000 ($5 x 10,000).....$50,000
                                                   THIS TOTALS-----------> $55,550
                                          
                            *******TIPS FOR SUCCESS*******

 *  Send for the four reports IMMEDIATELY so you will have them when 
    the orders start coming in because:

 *  When you receive a $5 order, you MUST send out the requested
    product/report to comply with the U.S. Postal & Lottery Laws, Title
    18,Sections 1302 and 1341 or Title 18,  Section 3005 in the U.S. Code,
    also Code of Federal Regs. vol. 16, Sections 255 and 436, which state 
    that "a product or service must be exchanged for money received."

 *  ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON THE ORDERS YOU RECEIVE.

                          *******YOUR SUCCESS GUIDELINE*******

You MUST receive 10 to 20 orders for REPORT #1!  THIS IS A MUST!  If you don't within two weeks, advertise more and send out more programs until you do.  Then, a couple of weeks later you should receive at least 100 orders for REPORT #2.  If you don't, advertise more and send out more programs until you do.  Once you have received 100, or more orders for REPORT #2, YOU CAN RELAX, because you will be on your way to the BANK! -OR-  You can DOUBLE your efforts!

REMEMBER: Every time your name is moved down on the list you are placed
                    in front of a DIFFERENT report.  You can KEEP TRACK of your
                    PROGRESS by watching which report people are ordering from
                    you. 
                                                IT'S THAT EASY!!!




    







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "John Kelsey" 
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 15:11:34 +0800
To: "cypherpunks" 
Subject: Re: Chaining ciphers
Message-ID: <199802010705.BAA20059@email.plnet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

[ To: Cypherpunks ## Date: 01/30/98 ##
  Subject: Re: Chaining ciphers ]

>Date: Thu, 29 Jan 98 09:47:52 PST
>From: jim@mentat.com (Jim Gillogly)
>Subject: Re: Chaining ciphers

>Yes, that's definitely better for high-confidence long-term
>archival stuff than relying on one cipher.  Carl Ellison's
>suggestion was DES | tran | nDES | tran | DES, where "tran"
>is an unkeyed large-block transposition.

I believe Dave Wagner broke this, and posted his attack to
cypherpunks, a few months ago; if I recall correctly, his
attack reduced the final security of this to that of a
little more than one DES operation.  (The attack worked when
n=1.)  This reenforces what we already knew:  When you chain
multiple encryption algorithms, you can prove that your
result is no *weaker* than any one of those algorithms, but
that doesn't mean it's any *stronger* than the strongest of
them.

>	Jim Gillogly
>	Trewesday, 8 Solmath S.R. 1998, 17:22
>	12.19.4.15.18, 9 Edznab 16 Muan, Third Lord of Night

- --John Kelsey, kelsey@counterpane.com / kelsey@plnet.net
NEW PGP print =  5D91 6F57 2646 83F9 6D7F 9C87 886D 88AF

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "John Kelsey" 
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 06:47:30 +0800
To: "cypherpunks" 
Subject: Re: Chaining ciphers
Message-ID: <199802012242.QAA31781@email.plnet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

[ To: Cypherpunks ## Date: 02/01/98 ##
  Subject: Re: Chaining ciphers ]

>Subject:      Re: Chaining ciphers
>From:         ghio@temp0201.myriad.ml.org (Matthew Ghio)
>Date:         1998/01/30

>One other possibility is to encrypt with plaintext block
>chaining, then superencrypt it PBC in reverse order,
>starting with the last block first. An attacker would thus
>have to decrypt the entire message before knowing whether
>the key was correct or not.

I've seen proposals along these lines before (I think there
was one by Ron Rivest).  If you have a hash function and any
symmetric cipher, you can do this.  BEAR and LION, the two
arbitrary-size block cipher constructions by Ross Anderson
and Eli Biham, have this property; you have to process every
bit of the message to check a key guess.  Using normal
chaining modes for this kind of thing, at least with 64-bit
block ciphers, usually exposes you to internal-collision
kinds of attacks.

>> One word of caution (which should be obvious, but can't
>> hurt to repeat it): if you chain ciphers (e.g. DES | IDEA |
>> 3DES | CAST | Blowfish), be sure to use separate keys for
>> each of them; otherwise breaking the last one will give the
>> key to the whole lot.

>Only if the cryptanalyst knows that the decryption of the
>last one was correct, which shouldn't be possible without
>also decrypting all the other layers.

Actually, this isn't necessarily true.  The problem is that
you can't guarantee that there won't be some interaction
between those encryption operations unless you can assume
independent keys.  The classic example is this:  Suppose the
first cipher is double-DES encryption with DES keys (K0,K1),
and the second and third encryptions are single-DES
decryptions with keys K1 and K0, respectively.  You now have

e_0(e_1(e_2(x)))

leaking all your plaintext directly.

The proof for why something like

E(X) = IDEA_{K_0}(3DES_{K_1}(X))

is at least as secure as 3DES is as follows:  Suppose those
keys are random and independent, and suppose you have a way
to break E(X).  Now, anytime you see a 3DES-encrypted block
of data, you can break it, as well, by simply choosing a
random IDEA key, encrypting it under that key, and then
applying your attack on E(X).  In other words, the attack on
E(X) implies the attack on 3DES(X), but only if the keys are
independent.  If there is some dependency between K_0 and
K_1 that's required for your attack on E(X), then you can't
generalize that out to an attack on 3DES, since you don't
know the 3DES key when you start attacking it.

To take this a little further, note that an attack on E(X)
also implies a chosen-plaintext attack on IDEA.  If I have
an attack that allows me to break E(X), then I can choose a
random 3DES key, pre-encrypt all my chosen plaintexts with
it, and then request the encryption of all those plaintexts
under the secret IDEA key.  The result is E(X), so I can now
apply my attack to E(X).

For more elaborate constructions, like

E3(X) = 3DES_{K_1}(IDEA_{K_2}(Blowfish_{K_3}(X))),

we can make the same kind of proof.  Suppose I can break
E3(X).  Now, I can mount a chosen-plaintext attack on IDEA.
I select a random encryption key and use it to encrypt all
my chosen plaintexts under with Blowfish, and then I request
their encryptions.  When I get the ciphertexts from that, I
select a random 3DES key and encrypt them again.  I then
apply my attack on E3(X) to break the system.  Thus, an
attack on E3(X) implies an attack on 3DES, IDEA, *and*
Blowfish.  But only if the keys are independent and random.

Note:  I read CP-LITE instead of the whole list.  Please CC
       me on replies.

- --John Kelsey, kelsey@counterpane.com / kelsey@plnet.net
NEW PGP print =  5D91 6F57 2646 83F9 6D7F 9C87 886D 88AF

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Lucky Green 
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 22:38:47 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Need electron microscope
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980201063304.0077ac4c@netcom10.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I need access to an electron microscope, or better yet, a real chip
analysis lab. This is for a serious project that would result in a
scientific paper. Who can help?

Thanks,


-- Lucky Green  PGP encrypted mail preferred

   "I do believe that where there is a choice only between cowardice and
    violence, I would advise violence." Mahatma Gandhi





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 22:37:59 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: "Cathedral and Bazzar" meeting with Silicon Valley CEO's
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Resent-Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 12:26:44 -0500
From: glen@substance.abuse.blackdown.org
To: 0xdeadbeef@substance.abuse.blackdown.org
Cc: bostic@bsdi.com
Subject: "Cathedral and Bazzar" meeting with Silicon Valley CEO's
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 12:26:40 -0500
Sender: glen@shell.ncm.com
Resent-From: 0xdeadbeef@substance.abuse.blackdown.org
X-Mailing-List: <0xdeadbeef@substance.abuse.blackdown.org> archive/latest/2692
X-Loop: 0xdeadbeef@substance.abuse.blackdown.org
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: 0xdeadbeef-request@substance.abuse.blackdown.org


Forwarded-by: Simon Karpen 
Forwarded-by: Rob Browning 
From: "Eric S. Raymond" 

We interrupt our normal programming to inform everybody that I'm
likely to be a bit preoccupied and/or out of touch for the next week.

The 23 Jan Netscape announcement has borne unexpected fruit.  Some of
you probably know by now that Netscape is now officially crediting my
research paper ("The Cathedral and the Bazaar", available on my site)
with having been a fundamentally important factor in their decision to
release Navigator 5.0 as freeware in source.

Life continues to get more interesting.  This coming week I'm flying
to Netscape's headquarters in Silicon Valley to meet with Netscape's
top brass and technical people.  We're going to be defining Netscape's
followup -- licensing terms, development strategy, freeware community
outreach, spreading the free-software concept.

Not only that, but arrangements are being made for me to meet with
other leading Silicon Valley CEOs whose names I am not yet at liberty to
reveal.  The mission will to convince them that the freeware-centered,
open-development strategy is the only way for them to head off total
Microsoft domination.

This is the big time, people -- the Internet free-software culture's
breakout into commercial viability at a level even Wall Street can see
is happening *now*.  And I'm involved it up to my ears.  *Gulp!*
You'll have to excuse me for being a bit distracted just now.  I've
got some preparation to do...

(Uh...anybody who still doesn't grok what the fuss is about should
surf over to  and read the story "Linux
Plays Large Role In Recent Netscape Announcement".  The "read here"
link leads to a copy of my paper on their site.  Please read it there;
my regular website host has been swamped by Web traffic and you get
only one guess why...)
--
		Eric S. Raymond

--- end forwarded text



-----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/
Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: 






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 02:02:00 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Need electron microscope
In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19980201063304.0077ac4c@netcom10.netcom.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Lucky Green  writes:

> I need access to an electron microscope, or better yet, a real chip
> analysis lab. This is for a serious project that would result in a
> scientific paper. Who can help?

He he he - your asshole employer (C2Net) can't afford to buy equipment,
so you need to beg on mailing lists like a pauper? He he he.

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ghio@temp0205.myriad.ml.org (Matthew Ghio)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 00:49:33 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Interesting Chemical Reaction
In-Reply-To: <199801310015.BAA00313@basement.replay.com>
Message-ID: <199802011642.LAA01517@myriad>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Anonymous wrote:

> Perpetual motion machines built on violations of thermodynamics involving
> hemispherical and ellipsoidal mirrors have been around for years.  They
> don't work.
> 
> The objects do not change temperature.

Actually, when I did this experiment several years ago, the objects did
change temperature (about 1 degree centigrade) but it may have been due
to outside light getting in.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 02:10:53 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Electron Microscope...
Message-ID: <199802011808.MAA25278@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Hi,

I have a couple of suggestions:

 -  Try several of the science museums around the country. As a result of
    my work with Discovery Hall I know that both Chicago and the
    Exploratorium in San Fran. had working available electron microscopes.
    Course this is nearly 10 years out of date too so who knows if they
    still run them.

 -  You might also try one of the 4 schools in the US who have a certified
    Semiconductor Technology program. There is one here in Austin, one in
    Phoenix (I believe), and one somewhere in Oregon. I don't remember where
    the fourth one is. Call Intel or AMD and ask their HR or PR people
    where the schools are, they'll know.


Good luck.


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |       The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate,       |
   |       but the desire to edit somebody elses words.                 |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                  Sign in Ed Barsis' office         |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 20:25:51 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Zero-knowledge commit
Message-ID: <199802011215.NAA10211@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Timmy C[unt] May carries a turd in his wallet for identification purposes.

                  __|     \ /     |__
      _ o   ___\o    \o    |    o/    o/___  o _  Timmy C[unt] May
       /\  /)  |     ( \  /o\  / )     |  (\  /\
   ___|_\______                          _____/_|__





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 04:14:18 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: [Fwd: JDC Newsletter Vol. 1 No. 6] (fwd)
Message-ID: <199802012012.OAA25533@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:
>From owner-alg-l@lists.io.com Sun Feb  1 12:58:25 1998
Message-ID: <34D4C68B.23866D8E@bga.com>
Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 13:01:32 -0600
From: Stu Green 
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.33 i586)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: alg-l@lists.io.com
Subject: [Fwd: JDC Newsletter Vol. 1 No. 6]
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------A072E7965EF9430CF4337FE8"
Sender: owner-alg-l@lists.io.com
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: alg-l@lists.io.com

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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Date: Sun, 1 Feb 98 06:52:30 EST
Subject: JDC Newsletter Vol. 1 No. 6


-WELCOME- to the Java(sm) Developer Connection(sm) Newsletter, covering
Early Access software releases, new products, developer programs, the 1998
JavaOne Developer Conference(sm), and more.  The JDC Team-


             J  D  C    N  E  W  S  L  E  T  T  E  R
             
             PRODUCT NEWS
                  *  Java Activator Release 2 Early Access
                  *  Java Foundation Classes(JFC) 0.7 Early Access
                  *  Java Accessibility API 0.7 Early Access
                  *  Java Cryptography Extension (JCE) 1.2 Early Access
                  *  PersonalJava(tm) Platform 1.0 Ships
                  *  JavaBeans(tm) in the News

             INSIDE THE JDC
                  *  New on the JDC
                  *  Watch for the JDC Reader Survey

            DEVELOPER PROGRAMS AND RESOURCES
                  *  Spring Internet World 98
                  *  1998 JavaOne Developer Conference
                  *  Testing Your Code to See if It's 100% Pure Java(tm)?
                  *  Secrets of Successful Java Testing 
                  *  Visit java.sun.com

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
P R O D U C T  N E W S

JAVA ACTIVATOR RELEASE 2 EARLY ACCESS.  Designed so developers can deploy
JDK(tm) 1.1-based applets for Windows and Solaris users on intranet web
pages, and provides support for both Internet Explorer 3.02 or later and
Netscape Navigator 3.0 or later.  To download, see:

http://java.sun.com/jdc/earlyAccess/index.html


JAVA FOUNDATION CLASSES(JFC) 0.7 EARLY ACCESS.  Contains the API
specification, documentation, sample code, and a demo.  The Swing 0.7
release contains improved menu implementation, significant changes to the
table and accessibility APIs, and bug fixes.  Note:  JFC supports JDK 1.1.2
or higher.  To access, see:

http://java.sun.com/jdc/earlyAccess/index.html


JAVA ACCESSIBILITY API 0.7 EARLY ACCESS.  Ensures that the Accessibility
API is easily extensible, and simplifies implementation for third-party
component developers.  Note:  This download works only with the JDK 1.1
compatible version of Swing 0.7.  To access, see:

http://java.sun.com/jdc/earlyAccess/index.html


JAVA CRYPTOGRAPHY EXTENSION (JCE) 1.2 EARLY ACCESS.  Provides a framework
for encryption and key negotiation, and includes interfaces and
implementations of secure Java streams, key generation, and symmetric,
asymmetric, block, and stream ciphers.  JCE 1.2 is designed so that other
cryptography libraries can be plugged in as service providers, and new
algorithms can be added seamlessly.  JCE 1.2 supplements JDK 1.2, which
includes interfaces and implementations of message digests and digital
signatures.  Note:  JCE 1.2 requires that JDK 1.2 be installed, and
download is restricted to the US and Canada.  For more information, see:

http://java.sun.com/jdc/earlyAccess/index.html

									 									 
PERSONALJAVA PLATFORM 1.0 SHIPS to licensees.  The PersonalJava reference
implementation software is designed specifically for network-connectable
consumer devices used for communications, entertainment, and mobile
computing.  Candidates for this Java platform include set-top boxes, mobile
hand-held computers, and Internet "web phones."  Also announced is the beta
release of Personal WebAccess, a compact web browser for devices that run
the PersonalJava platform.  For more information, see:

http://java.sun.com/pr/1998/01/pr980108.html 


JAVABEANS IN THE NEWS.  The draft specification for the Drag and Drop
Subsystem for Java Foundation Classes(JFC) is now updated to version 0.95.
For more information on JavaBeans, and to access the specification, see:

http://java.sun.com/beans
http://java.sun.com/beans/glasgow/index.html#draganddrop
 

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I N S I D E  T H E  J D C

NEW ON THE JDC.  Technical articles covering JDK 1.2, electronic commerce,
JDC registration management, building a Web crawler, and more.  Plus, don't
miss the JDC Tech Tips with hints on StringBuffer and using javap with
.class files.  To access, see:

http://java.sun.com/jdc


WATCH FOR THE JDC READER SURVEY coming soon at the end of technical
articles.  Let the JDC Team know how you like JDC articles -- and what
topics you want covered in the future.  Plus, earn two DukeDollars for
participating.  For more information, see:

http://java.sun.com/jdc


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
D E V E L O P E R  P R O G R A M S  A N D  R E S O U R C E S

SPRING INTERNET WORLD 98.  Focusing on industry issues and trends with
emphasis on marketing, advertising, ecommerce, finance, and government.
Location and date:  Los Angeles Convention Center, March 9 to 13, 1998.
For more information see:

http://events.internet.com/spring98/spring98.html


1998 JAVAONE DEVELOPER CONFERENCE.  Be sure to attend the 1998 JavaOne
Developer Conference -- at Moscone Center in San Francisco, California,
March 24 to 27, 1998.  Leading industry speakers include Scott McNealy, CEO
of Sun Microsystems, Alan Baratz, President of Sun Microsystems'
JavaSoft(tm) Division, and James Gosling, inventor of the Java programming
language.  Conference sessions include technical tracks, an ISV track, a
business track, and more.  For details and registration, see:

http://java.sun.com/javaone


TESTING YOUR CODE TO SEE IF IT'S 100% PURE JAVA?  Use JavaPureCheck(tm),
the free utility that checks your code for you.  And if you're thinking
about getting your software certified as 100% Pure, learn why you should --
and see how easy it is.  For more information, use the following:

http://www.suntest.com/100percent
http://java.sun.com/100percent/cert.html
100percentpure-program@java.sun.com


SECRETS OF SUCCESSFUL JAVA TESTING.  Find out how to write tests once and
run them anywhere at "Secrets of Successful Java Testing" seminar, brought
to you by SunTest(tm), the Java Testing unit of Sun Microsystems(tm).  Join
your colleagues, and learn the most effective tools and techniques for
testing Java applications and applets.  Offered in 17 cities throughout the
US, Canada, and the UK.  For details, schedules, and registration, see:

http://www.suntest.com/seminars/ 


VISIT JAVA.SUN.COM.  Get the latest news and information on Java technology
on Sun's JavaSoft web site.  Read announcements, learn about new
directions, and discover products, partners, programs, and more.  To
access, see:

http://java.sun.com

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
-- Editor's Note --

The names on the JDC mailing list are used for internal Sun Microsystems
purposes only.  To remove your name from the list, see
Subscribe/Unsubscribe below.

-- Feedback --

Comments? Send your feedback on the JDC Newsletter to:

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address is:

http://java.sun.com/jdc

-- More on Java Technology --

For the latest news and information on Java technology, see Sun's Java
technology site at the following address:

http://java.sun.com

For in-depth technical articles, tutorials, early access to software, and
more, visit the JDC at:

http://java.sun.com/jdc

-- Archives -- 

You'll find the JDC Newsletter archives at the following address:

http://java.sun.com/jdc/techDocs/newsletter/index.html

-- Copyright --

Copyright 1998 Sun Microsystems, Inc. All rights reserved.
901 San Antonio Road, Palo Alto, California 94303 USA

This document is protected by copyright. For more information, see:

http://java.sun.com/jdc/copyright.html


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JDC Newsletter 
Vol. 1 No. 6
January 27, 1998



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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 06:27:45 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Electron Microscope...
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980201141920.008a9ab0@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 12:08 PM 2/1/98 -0600, Jim Choate wrote:
> -  You might also try one of the 4 schools in the US who have a certified
>    Semiconductor Technology program. There is one here in Austin, one in
>    Phoenix (I believe), and one somewhere in Oregon. I don't remember where
>    the fourth one is. Call Intel or AMD and ask their HR or PR people
>    where the schools are, they'll know.

There's also the Cornell University Sub-Micron Research Facility,
founded back when microns were still very small, with lots of IBM funds.
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639

				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 21:44:53 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: 2001 Tiger Tots
Message-ID: <199802011335.OAA19354@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



London Sunday Times
February 1, 1998

Arthur C Clarke sex scandal hits Charles's Sri Lanka visit

by Yvonne Ridley


 THE Prince of Wales's visit to Sri Lanka
 this week hit a new problem last night
 after Arthur C Clarke, the respected
 science fiction writer due to be knighted
 by Charles, allegedly confessed to being a
 paedophile.

 The investiture is due to take place on
 Wednesday during the prince's visit, which
 coincides with the celebrations for the
 50th anniversary of the island's
 independence.

 Downing Street said last night: "As far as
 we are concerned the investiture is still
 going ahead as planned." A spokesman
 refused to comment on the possibility of a
 forfeiture of the honour by the 80-year-old
 author of 2001: A Space Odyssey.

 Clarke's revelations, published in today's
 Sunday Mirror, are bound to embarrass
 Tony Blair, who named him in his first
 new year honours as prime minister.

 Last night diplomats in Colombo, the
 island's capital, were being asked to assess
 the author's tabloid confession. If the
 report is taken at face value the ceremony
 is unlikely to go ahead.

 Buckingham Palace advisers contacted
 British embassy officials in Sri Lanka this
 year to make discreet inquiries after
 rumours about Clarke's sexuality and
 private life.

 They reported that, although Clarke was
 known to be gay, there was no evidence of
 paedophilia.

 The British-born author of more than 80
 novels, who has adopted Sri Lanka as his
 home, was unable to travel to Britain to
 receive his knighthood from the Queen
 because he is virtually confined to a
 wheelchair as a result of post-polio
 syndrome.

 In 1989 he was made a CBE for his
 services to British cultural interests in Sri
 Lanka, where he enjoys a tax-free lifestyle
 bestowed on him by the island because of
 his celebrity status.

 He previously met Charles at the British
 premiere of his Odyssey film in the 1960s,
 for which he received an Oscar
 nomination.

 Surrey-born Clarke was married briefly in
 1953 to Marilyn Mayfield, an American
 who has since died. The marriage lasted
 about six months after a whirlwind affair.

 After the split Clarke moved to Sri Lanka,
 where he now lives in a luxurious home
 surrounded by state-of-the-art technology
 and computers that allow him to keep in
 touch with friends around the world.

 His study is lined with photographs of
 celebrities and admirers of his work,
 including the Pope, Diana, Princess of
 Wales, Elizabeth Taylor and the astronaut
 Neil Armstrong.

 The news also threatens to cast a shadow
 during the royal visit for senior officials
 on the island as they have always been
 proud of the eminent author's presence
 during the past 40 years. Homosexuality is
 regarded as an offence in Sri Lanka and
 carries a prison sentence of up to 10 years.

 Charles's planned trip was already marred
 last week by a terrorist attack on a temple
 that was to have been the scene of the
 independence celebrations.

 The bomb killed 17 people, including a
 suicide team who drove a truck into the
 old hill capital of Kandy.

 Buddhist leaders have called for a boycott
 of this week's ceremonies in protest at
 Charles's presence. They say Britain
 sympathises with the island's separatist
 Tamil Tiger rebels. They also claim the
 Tamil Tigers, who carried out the
 bombing, have been allowed to raise
 money in London for terrorist campaigns.
 Since the bombing some Buddhist leaders
 have intensified demands for a formal
 apology from Britain for its colonial rule.

 A Foreign Office spokesman said last
 night that he fully expected Charles's visit
 to Sri Lanka to go ahead despite the
 security fears over recent terrorist
 activities.

 A report that members of the prince's royal
 protection squad would not be allowed to
 carry guns was an "administrative point"
 that would be resolved before the party
 left, he said.

 "It is an island where there is a history of
 terrorist problems with the Tamil Tigers
 and, from time to time, with explosions
 and so forth, so not unnaturally we are
 looking very closely at security," the
 spokesman said.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Eric Cordian 
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 05:02:17 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: 2001 Tiger Tots
In-Reply-To: <199802011335.OAA19354@basement.replay.com>
Message-ID: <199802012055.OAA15665@wire.insync.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




> Arthur C Clarke sex scandal hits Charles's Sri Lanka visit

Does this mean that we will get a new edition of "2001" with naked boy
scenes? :)

Kudos to Arthur for honking the uptight homophobic British establishment,
which sees pedophile rings under every shrub and bush.  Now do you think
we could get James "The Amazing" Randi to issue a similar endorsement? 

-- 
Eric Michael Cordian 0+
O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division
"Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 03:53:12 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: (none)
Message-ID: <199802011942.UAA02671@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Subskribe cyferpunks 








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 12:21:49 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: (none)
In-Reply-To: <199802011942.UAA02671@basement.replay.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) writes:

> Subskribe cyferpunks 

An old one for those who forgot it already...

If Bill is , then who's Hillary?



---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 11:59:55 +0800
To: users@ssz.com (SSZ User Mail List)
Subject: Updated BBS listing (fwd)
Message-ID: <199802020355.VAA26725@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:
>From ravage@ssz.com Sun Feb  1 21:54:18 1998
From: Jim Choate 
Message-Id: <199802020354.VAA26715@einstein.ssz.com>
Subject: Updated BBS listing
To: staff@ssz.com (Armadillo Group Staff)
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 21:54:17 -0600 (CST)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23]
Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 3010      


Hi,

I have updated the listing in Rasca's BBS list and it should show up in one
of the future O'Reilly 'Learning Linux' books which we've been listed in
since it was published.

                                                       Jim


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Rasca,

I would like to update the entry for my system, Solar Soyuz Zaibatsu (SSZ).
The data that has been in the 'Learning Linux' listing has been out of date
the last couple of years. I apologize for not correcting it sooner. It's
pretty wild that we've been online in one manner or another since 1984 and
involved in Linux since late 1992.

The correct information is below:

BBS Name: Solar Soyuz Zaibatsu (ssz.com)
Phone Number: 512-451-6009 (28.8), 512-451-7060 (33.6) (account required)
Online: ?, we're on Internet full time via ISDN
Expires: ?
Modem Speed (CCITT): 28.8, 33.6
City/Country/State (include region code): Austin, US, Texas (?)
Whatever network it is on (i.e. FidoNet, etc.): Internet (ssz.com)
First Time access to D/L Linux Files (Y/N): Y (if not request mount via
                                            staff@ssz.com)
Allow File Requests - Fido style (Y/N): No, available anonymous ftp and
                                        temporary guest accounts (send
                                        request to staff@ssz.com)
Free Access to Linux Files (Y/N): Y
BBS Rating (1-5): 5 (what else?)

We also support the 'Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer' (cypherpunks@ssz.com),
'Experimental Science Instrumentation Mailing List' (tesla@ssz.com), and are
involved in the 'Austin Linux Group' (alg-l@lists.io.com). I also do
consulting via 'The Armadillo Group' (consulting@ssz.com). We still support
hobby/amateur science and technology via 'The Wired Society' (tws@ssz.com).
We currently run Linux on x86, PPC, & SPARC machines as well as Plan 9.


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |       The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate,       |
   |       but the desire to edit somebody elses words.                 |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                  Sign in Ed Barsis' office         |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 13:05:57 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Bush Gang Suspected In Assault On Presidency
In-Reply-To: <34cae887.ccs@ccs.covici.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Path: perun!news
From: covici@ccs.covici.com
Newsgroups: local.echorel
Subject: Bush Gang Suspected In Assault On Presidency
Message-ID: <34cae887.ccs@ccs.covici.com>
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 02:23:49 -0500
Sender: news@bwalk.dm.com
Reply-To: LaRouche Issues Mailing List 
Organization: Covici Computer Systems

Bush gang suspected in new assault on Presidency

by Edward Spannaus and Jeffrey Steinberg

In the midst of the worst global financial crisis in modern history, the
United States Presidency has come under renewed, vicious attack from a
combination of British and nominally ``American'' Bush-League circles.
This latest attack, which one White House official long ago
appropriately dubbed ``bimbo eruptions,'' centered around a Bush
``mole'' who was, unfortunately, allowed to operate inside the Clinton
administration, and who now enjoys high-level security clearances in her
post at the Pentagon.

Linda Tripp, the central player in the renewed assault against President
Clinton--staged around a purported sex scandal involving a young White
House intern, Monica Lewinsky--was a Bush administration employee from
1990, until Bush left office in January 1993. At the urging of senior
Bush administration officials, including Transportation Secretary Sam
Skinner, Tripp was retained by the Clinton-Gore transition team in a
clerical position, and later assigned to work at the Office of the White
House General Counsel, under Bernard Nussbaum and his deputy, Vincent
Foster. All the while, she was operating as part of a treasonous
Bush-League ``fifth column'' within the Executive branch.

While the ``Get Clinton'' media have attempted to portray Tripp as
``apolitical,'' she was, in fact, an ally, from the Bush administration
period on, of then-FBI agent Gary Aldrich, who, in 1996, wrote a
libellous book against President Clinton, {Unlimited Access: An FBI
Agent Inside the Clinton White House,} which also revolved around bogus
claims of White House sexual misconduct (see {EIR,} July 26, 1996,
p.|72.) Aldrich was another Bush-League mole inside the Clinton White
House. His embarrassingly fantasy-ridden book has been trumpetted by the
London-based Hollinger Corporation, the leading British Crown media
cartel; by its subsidiary, {American Spectator} magazine; and by ``Get
Clinton'' money-bags Richard Mellon Scaife.

Tripp emerged in 1995 as an asset of Whitewater Independent Counsel
Kenneth Starr, testifying before the Whitewater grand jury and later
before a Congressional hearing on the death of Vincent Foster. When
Lloyd Cutler replaced Nussbaum as White House General Counsel, Tripp,
who by then had been widely identified as an unabashed political enemy
of President Clinton, was reassigned to the Pentagon, where she
eventually got an $80,000-a-year job, which also involved her getting
top-level security clearances. Tripp claimed, to anyone who would
listen, that she had been transferred from the White House because she
``knew too much about Whitewater,'' a patent lie.

Commenting on the role of Tripp as the linchpin in the latest
Clintongate assault, Lyndon LaRouche called on Jan. 22 for Tripp's
security clearances to be immediately revoked, pending the outcome of a
thorough probe of her role in the sordid affair. ``She obviously needs
her security clearances immediately pulled, given her role in what has
all the earmarks of an illegal attack against the President, ostensibly
on behalf of partisan Republican forces. I would certainly hope that
there is no one in the Pentagon who would countenance such an obvious
assault against a vital American institution, the Presidency. I would
expect such treachery from the editorial page writers at the {Wall
Street Journal,} but not from our military.''


               - An earlier `eruption' -


In the summer of 1997, Tripp surfaced again as part of an effort to hit
President Clinton with a ``Profumo''-style sex scandal, telling
{Newsweek} that the President had sexually harassed a White House aide,
Kathleen Willey. Willey denied, under oath, that Tripp's allegations
were true. This prompted President Clinton's attorney, Robert Bennett,
belatedly, in August 1997, to denounce Tripp as a liar.

While working at the Pentagon, in late 1996, Tripp had already begun to
cultivate a close relationship with a former White House junior staff
aide, 22-year-old Monica Lewinsky, who had been recently transferred to
the Defense Department. It is unclear how the two women came to meet,
but in short order, Tripp began to exert a significant amount of control
over the younger woman. Tripp should be forced, under oath, to detail
the circumstance under which she met and befriended Lewinsky.

Tripp soon betrayed Lewinsky's confidence by surreptitiously--and,
probably, illegally--taping telephone conversations with Lewinsky.

By December 1997, Tripp and Lewinsky had {both,} mysteriously, been
subpoenaed to give depositions to attorneys for Paula Jones, in her
civil lawsuit against the President--a lawsuit instigated by British
intelligence operator and former London {Sunday Telegraph} Washington
correspondent Ambrose Evans-Pritchard. How Jones's attorneys came to
know of the existence of Tripp and Lewinsky is one question that may
hold a key to Tripp's role in the present attack against the President.
It should be recalled that, prior to being named the independent counsel
in Whitewater, Kenneth Starr had been paid by Richard Mellon Scaife,
through the Landmark Legal Foundation, to prepare an {amicus curiae}
brief in support of Paula Jones.

Tripp claims that, on Jan. 12, 1998, she took 20 hours of tape-recorded
conversations with Lewinsky to Whitewater Special Prosecutor Starr. The
next day, Starr arranged for Tripp to secretly tape her meeting with
Lewinsky at the Ritz Carlton Hotel near the Pentagon in Arlington,
Virginia.

At the time that Starr arranged for the FBI to secretly tape the
Tripp-Lewinsky meeting, {he had absolutely no jurisdiction to probe
President Clinton's relationship to the former White House aide.}
Indeed, it is critical that a full-scale probe be conducted, to
determine whether Tripp, who was in league with Starr from 1995, was
taping her conversations with Lewinsky on her own, or, covertly, on
behalf of Starr. At minimum, Starr vastly overstepped his jurisdiction;
far more likely, he himself broke the law--along with Tripp--in a
flagrant attempt to entrap and destroy President Clinton.


                 - No U.S. precedent -


In the 200-year history of the American Presidency, there have been
occasional sexual scandals involving top government officials; however,
never has such a personal scandal brought down the chief executive.
There is only one country in the world where heads of government are
brought to their knees through such tabloid scandal-mongering: Great
Britain. In 1963, Harold Macmillan's government was brought down by a
sex scandal involving Defense Minister John Profumo.

It is, therefore, not surprising that a review of the various
Clintongate scandals, from the 1993 so-called ``Troopergate'' affair to
the present attack, reveals that British intelligence stringer and
former {Sunday Telegraph} Washington correspondent Ambrose
Evans-Pritchard has been the chief instigator. As early as May 8, 1994,
in a {Sunday Telegraph} column, Evans-Pritchard boasted that he had been
instrumental in getting Paula Jones to file her civil suit against the
President.

Evans-Pritchard has elsewhere boasted that his assignment, on behalf of
the British Crown's Hollinger Corporation, has been nothing less than
the total destruction of the Clinton Presidency. Writing in the Jan. 22
{Daily Telegraph,} Evans-Pritchard loudly bragged of his manipulation of
Paula Jones: ``My impression after befriending her four years ago,
before she took the momentous step of suing the President, is that her
motive was sheer rage.''

``Paula Jones has now achieved her object of inflicting massive damage
on Bill Clinton, with shortening odds that she may ultimately destroy
his Presidency,'' he continued. Evans-Pritchard accuses the U.S. news
media of covering up the Clinton sex scandals, so that only the
{American Spectator} or the British press will print the stories. ``What
Paula Jones has done is to use the immense power of legal discovery to
force the scandal to the surface. She has finally done the job that the
American media failed to do so miserably.''

This was precisely the strategy that Evans-Pritchard had laid out in
1994, when he acknowledged on May 8, 1994, that he had had ``a dozen
conversations with Mrs. Jones over the past two months.'' He furthermore
admitted that ``I happened to be present at a strategy meeting last
month on a boat on the Arkansas River,'' at which Jones's attorney ``was
weighing the pros and cons of legal action.''

It doesn't ``matter all that much whether Mrs. Jones ultimately wins or
loses her case,'' he wrote on May 15, 1994. ``The ticking time bomb in
the lawsuit lies elsewhere, in the testimony of other witnesses.''

``Put plainly,'' Evans-Pritchard blurted, ``the political purpose of the
Jones lawsuit is to reconstruct the inner history of the Arkansas
Governor's Mansion, using the legal power of discovery. In effect, the
two lawyers and their staff could soon be doing the job that the
American media failed to do during the election campaign and have
largely failed to do since.''

Evans-Pritchard's motive, in contrast to Jones's ``sheer rage,'' is a
deep, abiding hatred of the United States, and particularly, the
institution of its Presidency. Anyone who joins Evans-Pritchard in this
unfolding assault upon the Presidency, is joining the ranks of traitor
Aaron Burr.

A thorough probe of the current insurrection, beginning with a spotlight
on Linda Tripp, is more than appropriate.

>From Executive Intelligence Review V25, #5.
-- 
         John Covici
          covici@ccs.covici.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Black Unicorn 
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 14:56:29 +0800
To: Tim May 
Subject: The Continued Attack on Cash (Was: "The Right of Anonymity"...)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980202005111.006c10d0@schloss.li>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Mr. May said:

>Suffice it to say that I find nearly all cases where someone is "demanding"
>personal information to be cases where the government has required them to,
>for various unseemly purposes, or in cases where credit is being arranged.

Of late I tried to pay off a rather large American Express bill.

Suddenly, AMEX won't take cash in excess of $1,000 in any single billing
period (30 days).  The large sign on the wall indicated the substance of
the new rule (or the old rule newly enforced) and added that customers "may
be required to produce two forms of identification including a government
issued identification card and a social security number."  Here's a
situation where the payor is (theoretically) positively identified to the
payee (including ssn), where credit has already been established, and where
records are certain to exist for all transactions which are being paid for.
 The AMEX Corporate card was once a wonderful tool to preserve anonymity
with.  One could issue several cards for a domestic company, 100% owned by
an offshore, and settle in cash.  Properly done, this was perfectly legal.
Well, once upon a time anyhow.

I find it extremely alarming that a general transaction like this can be
illegal where almost no case can be made for a danger of money laundering
or some kind of support of the "underground economy" (except perhaps that
I'd have Pablo Escobar pay off my Amex to compensate me for my illegal
smuggling flights, but that's a bit thin in my view).

Increasingly, I try and find explanations for these kinds of regulations
which do not include a paranoid rant about governments making sure they
maintain a firm set of records on every citizen for whenever it might be
"needed," (or wanted).  Increasingly, this becomes a difficult mental task.

Increasingly, it is difficult to make cash transactions.  In the end that
seems to be the point.  Make it difficult to pay with cash.  Make it
suspicious to pay with cash.  Make it an attention getter if you pay with
cash.

Sound paranoid?  Try this.  I'd like everyone who reads this to try and go
45 days without using plastic or writing a check.  Just 45 days.  If you
don't grow alarmist very quickly (like in the first week) I'd like to hear
your experience.  If nothing else, try adding up a few months of finance
charges, yearly fees on your credit cards, transactions fees, check fees,
interest lost on no-interest checking accounts... see what you're paying to
keep people from looking at you like a criminal.

There's an interesting new awakening in personal finance right now which
advises, among other things, "pay in cash, die broke."  I'm interested to
see how this "pay in cash" advice, which I have followed religiously years
before it was put in print, clashes with post-modern financial regulation.

I know things have gotten really out of hand because the phrase "No, I'll
pay with cash," which I find I have to use more and more often, turns more
and more heads and is met more and more often with a cross look from a
teller and a finger pointed at a large sign bearing the heading
"Restrictions on Cash Transactions."

When the question becomes "Which credit card will you be paying with?" and
no longer does one hear "How will you be paying for that?" I think people
better start thinking about what's happening.

(I'm not on cypherpunks anymore, mail me directly).





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: eric-grey@usa.net
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 09:22:45 +0800
To: cypherpunks-unedited@toad.com
Subject: Would you like to join our referral program?
Message-ID: <199802012012.e-mail@sparklers.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Hello 

I saw your web site, which was featured on the New Business Sites
at Starting Point.  I was wondering if you might be interested in
participating in our referral program.  All you have to do is put our
banner or text link on your page.  We pay you $50 for every 
click-thru that signs up for a business credit card merchant
account with us.  If interested please visit:

http://www.tou.com/host/mken/referal.htm

Thank you.

Marc Kenyon
21st Century Resources







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 15:09:37 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: The Continued Attack on Cash (Was: "The Right of Anonymity"...) (fwd)
Message-ID: <199802020709.BAA27402@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 00:51:11 -0600
> From: Black Unicorn 
> Subject: The Continued Attack on Cash (Was: "The Right of Anonymity"...)

> Sound paranoid?  Try this.  I'd like everyone who reads this to try and go
> 45 days without using plastic or writing a check.  Just 45 days.  If you
> don't grow alarmist very quickly (like in the first week) I'd like to hear
> your experience.

I've been doing it for many years. Don't have a checking account, don't own
a credit card. I do have a saving account with a local credit union and
go in every 3-4 days and withdraw what I need for the next 3-4 days. Pay
every bill in cash or money order. I'm not going into how I invest my
excess capital. If my employer needs me to travel I do it on their plastic.
The only irritating thing I find is that I can't walk into grocery stores any
more and get money orders larger than $700 and many won't do it for more than
$400. I have to pay my rent each month with a $400 and a $397 money order in
order to meet the $797 amound due because I'm too lazy to drive the extra
6-8 blocks to the one who will do the $700 money orders. Other than that I
don't have a problem at all.

I'm going to go tomorrow and buy a new laptop at around $1500. I intend on
paying with a wad of $100 bills. Bet you they don't look twice nor will they
ask for ID.

I've actualy never had a problem paying cash, never had anyone turn real
money down...


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |       The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate,       |
   |       but the desire to edit somebody elses words.                 |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                  Sign in Ed Barsis' office         |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Raph Levien 
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 23:01:14 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: List of reliable remailers
Message-ID: <199802021450.GAA00175@kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



   I operate a remailer pinging service which collects detailed
information about remailer features and reliability.

   To use it, just finger remailer-list@kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu

   There is also a Web version of the same information, plus lots of
interesting links to remailer-related resources, at:
http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~raph/remailer-list.html

   This information is used by premail, a remailer chaining and PGP
encrypting client for outgoing mail. For more information, see:
http://www.c2.org/~raph/premail.html

   For the PGP public keys of the remailers, finger
pgpkeys@kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu

This is the current info:

                                 REMAILER LIST

   This is an automatically generated listing of remailers. The first
   part of the listing shows the remailers along with configuration
   options and special features for each of the remailers. The second
   part shows the 12-day history, and average latency and uptime for each
   remailer. You can also get this list by fingering
   remailer-list@kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu.

$remailer{'cyber'} = ' alpha pgp';
$remailer{"mix"} = " cpunk mix pgp hash latent cut ek ksub reord ?";
$remailer{"replay"} = " cpunk mix pgp hash latent cut post ek";
$remailer{"jam"} = " cpunk mix pgp hash middle latent cut ek";
$remailer{"winsock"} = " cpunk pgp pgponly hash cut ksub reord ?";
$remailer{'nym'} = ' newnym pgp';
$remailer{"squirrel"} = " cpunk mix pgp pgponly hash latent cut ek";
$remailer{'weasel'} = ' newnym pgp';
$remailer{"reno"} = " cpunk mix pgp hash middle latent cut ek reord ?";
$remailer{"cracker"} = " cpunk mix remix pgp hash ksub esub latent cut ek reord post";
$remailer{'redneck'} = ' newnym pgp';
$remailer{"bureau42"} = " cpunk mix pgp ksub hash latent cut ek";
$remailer{"neva"} = " cpunk pgp pgponly hash cut ksub ?";
$remailer{"lcs"} = " mix";
$remailer{"medusa"} = " mix middle"
$remailer{"McCain"} = " mix middle";
$remailer{"valdeez"} = " cpunk pgp pgponly hash ek";
$remailer{"arrid"} = " cpunk pgp pgponly hash ek";
$remailer{"hera"} = " cpunk pgp pgponly hash ek";
$remailer{"htuttle"} = " cpunk pgp hash latent cut post ek";
catalyst@netcom.com is _not_ a remailer.
lmccarth@ducie.cs.umass.edu is _not_ a remailer.
usura@replay.com is _not_ a remailer.
remailer@crynwr.com is _not_ a remailer.

There is no remailer at relay.com.

Groups of remailers sharing a machine or operator:
(cyber mix reno winsock)
(weasel squirrel medusa)
(cracker redneck)
(nym lcs)
(valdeez arrid hera)

This remailer list is somewhat phooey. Go check out
http://www.publius.net/rlist.html for a good one.

Last update: Thu 23 Oct 97 15:48:06 PDT
remailer  email address                        history  latency  uptime
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
hera     goddesshera@juno.com             ------------  5:03:45  99.86%
nym      config@nym.alias.net             +*#**#**###       :34  95.82%
redneck  config@anon.efga.org             #*##*+#****      2:00  95.44%
mix      mixmaster@remail.obscura.com     +++ ++++++*     19:18  95.27%
squirrel mix@squirrel.owl.de              -- ---+---    2:34:19  95.16%
cyber    alias@alias.cyberpass.net        *++***+ ++      11:26  95.11%
replay   remailer@replay.com              ****   ***      10:06  94.93%
arrid    arrid@juno.com                   ----.------   8:50:34  94.41%
bureau42 remailer@bureau42.ml.org          ---------    3:38:29  93.53%
cracker  remailer@anon.efga.org           +  +*+*+*+      16:32  92.80%
jam      remailer@cypherpunks.ca          +  +*-++++      24:14  92.79%
winsock  winsock@rigel.cyberpass.net      -..-..----    9:59:18  92.22%
neva     remailer@neva.org                ------****+   1:03:02  90.39%
valdeez  valdeez@juno.com                               4:58:22 -36.97%
reno     middleman@cyberpass.net                        1:01:28  -2.65%

   History key
     * # response in less than 5 minutes.
     * * response in less than 1 hour.
     * + response in less than 4 hours.
     * - response in less than 24 hours.
     * . response in more than 1 day.
     * _ response came back too late (more than 2 days).

   cpunk
          A major class of remailers. Supports Request-Remailing-To:
          field.
          
   eric
          A variant of the cpunk style. Uses Anon-Send-To: instead.
          
   penet
          The third class of remailers (at least for right now). Uses
          X-Anon-To: in the header.
          
   pgp
          Remailer supports encryption with PGP. A period after the
          keyword means that the short name, rather than the full email
          address, should be used as the encryption key ID.
          
   hash
          Supports ## pasting, so anything can be put into the headers of
          outgoing messages.
          
   ksub
          Remailer always kills subject header, even in non-pgp mode.
          
   nsub
          Remailer always preserves subject header, even in pgp mode.
          
   latent
          Supports Matt Ghio's Latent-Time: option.
          
   cut
          Supports Matt Ghio's Cutmarks: option.
          
   post
          Post to Usenet using Post-To: or Anon-Post-To: header.
          
   ek
          Encrypt responses in reply blocks using Encrypt-Key: header.
          
   special
          Accepts only pgp encrypted messages.
          
   mix
          Can accept messages in Mixmaster format.
          
   reord
          Attempts to foil traffic analysis by reordering messages. Note:
          I'm relying on the word of the remailer operator here, and
          haven't verified the reord info myself.

   mon
          Remailer has been known to monitor contents of private email.
          
   filter
          Remailer has been known to filter messages based on content. If
          not listed in conjunction with mon, then only messages destined
          for public forums are subject to filtering.
          

Raph Levien





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 20:57:16 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: The Continued Attack on Cash (Was: "The Right of Anonymity"...) (
In-Reply-To: <199802020709.BAA27402@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate  writes:
>                                    Don't have a checking account, don't own
> a credit card.

Minor nit: most people who do use credit cards don't "own" them either.

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 00:01:27 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Bush Gang Suspected In Assault On Presidency
In-Reply-To: <34cae887.ccs@ccs.covici.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980202074638.00875dd0@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



EIR is one of the mouthpieces for the Lyndon Larouche cult.
I ran across them in an airport recently, and was surprised to find
they're now strongly behind Bill Clinton; I'd thought that a few
years ago they were accusing him of being a tool of the
Tri-Lateral Commission, though perhaps it was some other group
of anti-TriLateralists.

At 10:22 PM 2/1/98 EST, covici@ccs.covici.com wrote:
>Bush gang suspected in new assault on Presidency
>
>by Edward Spannaus and Jeffrey Steinberg
>
>In the midst of the worst global financial crisis in modern history, the
>United States Presidency has come under renewed, vicious attack from a
>combination of British and nominally ``American'' Bush-League circles.
...
>From Executive Intelligence Review V25, #5.


				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 20:57:45 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: BXA Meet
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980202124909.010275c4@pop.pipeline.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Should anyone attend this a report would be welcome.

Federal Register: February 2, 1998 (Volume 63, Number 21)
Page 5353
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE

Bureau of Export Administration

Regulations and Procedures Technical Advisory Committee; Notice
of Partially Closed Meeting

    A meeting of the Regulations and Procedures Technical Advisory
Committee will be held February 25, 1998, 9:00 a.m., in the Herbert C.
Hoover Building, Room 3884, 14th Street between Constitution and
Pennsylvania Avenues, N.W., Washington, D.C. The Committee
advises the Office of the Assistant Secretary for Export Administration 
on implementation of the Export Administration Regulations (EAR) 
and provides for continuing review to update the EAR as needed.

Agenda

Open Session

    1. Opening remarks by the Chairperson.
    2. Presentation of papers or comments by the public.
    3. Update on implementation of the National Defense Authorization
Act computer control regulations.
    4. Update on the Wassenaar Arrangement implementation regulation.
    5. Discussion on the ``deemed export'' rule.
    6. Discussion on the encryption regulations.
    7. Update on the License Process Review initiative.
    8. Discussion on efforts to conform the Foreign Trade Statistics
Regulations and the Export Administration Regulations on export
clearance requirements.
    9. Discussion on clarification of EPCI (Enhanced Proliferation
Control Initiative).

Closed Session

    10. Discussion of matters properly classified under Executive Order
12958, dealing with the U.S. export control program and strategic
criteria related thereto.

    The General Session of the meeting will be open to the public and a
limited number of seats will be available. To the extent that time
permits, members of the public may present oral statements to the
Committee. Written statements may be submitted at any time before or
after the meeting. However, to facilitate the distribution of public
presentation materials to the Committee members, the Committee 
suggests that presenters forward the public presentation materials 
two weeks prior to the meeting date to the following address: Ms. 
Lee Ann Carpenter, OAS/EA/BXA MS:3886C, 14th & Pennsylvania 
Avenue, N.W., U.S. Department of Commerce, Washington, D.C. 
20230.

    The Assistant Secretary for Administration, with the concurrence of
the delegate of the General Counsel, formally determined on December
16, 1996, pursuant to Section 10(d) of the Federal Advisory Committee
Act, as amended, that the series of meetings or portions of meetings of
the Committee and of any Subcommittees thereof, dealing with the
classified materials listed in 5 U.S.C. 552b(c)(1) shall be exempt from
the provisions relating to public meetings found in section 10(a) (1)
and (a) (3), of the Federal Advisory Committee Act. The remaining
series of meetings or portions thereof will be open to the public. A
copy of the Notice of Determination to close meetings or portions of
meetings of the Committee is available for public inspection and
copying in the Central Reference and Records Inspection Facility, Room
6020, U.S. Department of Commerce, Washington, D.C. For further
information, call Lee Ann Carpenter at (202) 482-2583.

    Dated: January 27, 1998.
Lee Ann Carpenter,
Director, Technical Advisory Committee Unit.
[FR Doc. 98-2393 Filed 1-30-98; 8:45 am]






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 21:48:25 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Jim Bell Update
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980202134213.01035a0c@pop.pipeline.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998

Hi, John.   Received a letter and phone call from Jim, as below.

--------------------------------------

.   He had a little altercation with a fellow prisoner ("through no fault
of my own" - he thinks he was set up) and his privileges were reduced for
35 days, so that he could only make one phone call each week.

.   In reference to the bad publicity (all those articles and news alerts)
which his case received, he speculates that the government gave a copy of
AP to a 'think tank' like Rand, etc., with the request to figure out how to
stop or delay AP. But it is his conclusion that AP is unstoppable, although:

"I think that one last (temporary) hope for government is to delay AP.
Chances are good that the "think tank" decided thatt the best way to delay
AP is to discredit me, its author.  It was a desperate gamble, particularly
because the act of harrassing me automatically gives AP more publicity.
That's the reason they will fail; the more they try to "get" me, the worse
it will be for them."

He wants it noted that his writing and discussions of AP ideas are in the
sense of a "prediction", a "warning", or even a "vision", not an advocacy
of it.

.   Regarding his guilty plea, he said it was because he realizes that he
did do a few things wrong and that, although he did think that some of the
charges against him were overblown and distorted, there was enough of a
risk of being found guilty that it didn't make a lot of sense to contest
them.  He adds, "I also felt (and still do, of course) that government had
already 'lost the war' so to speak."

.   He expects to be out around mid-April. Upon his release he wants to
go to some of his favorite restaurants, and to have several BIG pizzas.  He
hopes he can get his old job back as electronics designer, and has some
ideas he wants to work on for a virtual reality peripheral device which
will bring everyone steps closer to the Star Trek Next Generation 'holodek'.

- end






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 23:09:01 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Clarke denies pedophilia [CNN]
Message-ID: <199802021507.JAA28167@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

>    
>                    AUTHOR OUTRAGED AT REPORT HE IS PEDOPHILE
>                                        
>   Arthur C. Clarke seeks postponement of knighthood
>   
>       Clarke Clarke 
>      
>      COLOMBO, Sri Lanka (AP) -- A British newspaper report that Arthur C.
>      Clarke is a pedophile is false, his spokesman said Monday, and the
>      science fiction writer is consulting lawyers.
>      
>      "I am outraged by the Sunday Mirror's allegations, and I am seeking
>      legal advise," Clarke said in a brief statement read to reporters by
>      his secretary, Roshan Amarasekhara.
>      
>      "Mr. Clarke is very upset by the false reports," Amarasekhara added.
>      
>      Clarke was quoted at length discussing sex with young men in the
>      sensationalist British newspaper's report Sunday, a day before
>      Prince Charles was to fly to Sri Lanka to confer the honorary
>      knighthood Queen Elizabeth granted the author late last year. The
>      prince will also take part in the former British colony's 50th
>      independence anniversary celebrations.
>      


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |       The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate,       |
   |       but the desire to edit somebody elses words.                 |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                  Sign in Ed Barsis' office         |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 01:53:52 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: A new crypto-campaign, from Time/Netly News
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 12:07:24 -0500
From: Declan McCullagh 
To: politech@vorlon.mit.edu

*****

SHOULD THE GOVERNMENT READ YOUR CYBERMAIL?

Time Magazine
February 9, 1998
Page 20

A few years ago, ED GILLESPIE was busy orchestrating the
Republican takeover of Congress as the G.O.P.'s top
spinmeister. Now the man behind the Contract with America
is shifting to high tech as he battles a new foe: a plan to
ban software capable of encoding messages so securely that
police can't crack them. A law proposed by the FBI would
mandate an electronic peephole in all encryption programs
so that government agents can read your files. The FBI
claims this is necessary to protect against criminals. But
Silicon Valley chiefs see this as a threat, and are
equipping Gillespie with a multimillion-dollar lobbying and
media budget. Joining him to woo Democrats is lobbyist JACK
QUINN, former counsel to Bill Clinton and ex-chief of staff
to Al Gore.

--By Declan McCullagh/Washington

**********

For details on the new encryption campaign, check out today's Netly News
(netlynews.com) at:

  http://cgi.pathfinder.com/netly/opinion/0,1042,1722,00.html

-Declan


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 22:39:06 +0800
To: unicorn@schloss.li
Subject: Re: The Continued Attack on Cash (Was: "The Right of Anonymity"...)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980202005111.006c10d0@schloss.li>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Black Unicorn wrote:

> Sound paranoid?  Try this.  I'd like everyone who reads this to try and go
> 45 days without using plastic or writing a check.  Just 45 days.  If you
> don't grow alarmist very quickly (like in the first week) I'd like to hear
> your experience.  If nothing else, try adding up a few months of finance
> charges, yearly fees on your credit cards, transactions fees, check fees,
> interest lost on no-interest checking accounts... see what you're paying to
> keep people from looking at you like a criminal.

Depends on where you shop.  I was recently at a store where my request
to pay with a credit card instead of cash elicited a look of disappointment
from the owner-operator.  Normally I'd have been happy to accomodate his
desire for cash, but when someone else is letting you charge it to their
credit card... well...

I think the real problem is dealing with big companies who want you name,
address, and phone number for their marketing dept.  Mom and pop shops
would much prefer to cut out the middleman.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Trei, Peter" 
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 22:48:26 +0800
To: "'cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: RE: Dr Dobbs crypto CD
Message-ID: <6B5344C210C7D011835C0000F80127668B1610@exna01.securitydynamics.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I called them up a couple weeks ago to ask about this. The person I
talked to
had clearly fielded this question quite a few times. The story he gave
is that
preparation of the master CD was farmed out to some particular
individual
contractor who was stalling. I got the impression that I was being told
that
the contractor was apparently imcompetant, and could not turn in a
usable
master in a timely fashion.

There was also some mention of the possiblity of 'legal difficulties',
though
I was given no details on that.

Peter Trei
ptrei@securitydynamics.com


> -----Original Message-----
> From:	dlv@bwalk.dm.com [SMTP:dlv@bwalk.dm.com]
> Sent:	Saturday, January 31, 1998 12:14 PM
> To:	cypherpunks@toad.com
> Subject:	Dr Dobbs crypto CD
> 
> The DDJ I just got (March 98) has a full-page ad for the crypto CD
> (p.113)
> saying inter alia "New Release! fast Search Engine"
> 
> Has anyone received even the "old release"?
> 
> ---
> 
> Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
> Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013,
> 14.4Kbps
	[Trei, Peter]  
I called them up a couple weeks ago to ask about this. The person I
spoke to
had clearly fielded this question quite a few times. The story he gave
is that
preparation of the master CD was farmed out to some particular
individual
contractor who was stalling. I got the impression that I was being told
that
the contractor was apparently imcompetant, and could not turn in a
usable
master in a timely fashion.

There was also some mention of the possiblity of 'legal difficulties',
though
I was given no details.

I'm still waiting for my copy.

Peter Trei
ptrei@securitydynamics.com






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 02:27:41 +0800
To: Black Unicorn 
Subject: Re: The Continued Attack on Cash (Was: "The Right ofAnonymity"...)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 10:51 PM -0800 2/1/98, Black Unicorn wrote:
>Mr. May said:
>
>>Suffice it to say that I find nearly all cases where someone is "demanding"
>>personal information to be cases where the government has required them to,
>>for various unseemly purposes, or in cases where credit is being arranged.
>
>Of late I tried to pay off a rather large American Express bill.
>
>Suddenly, AMEX won't take cash in excess of $1,000 in any single billing
>period (30 days).  The large sign on the wall indicated the substance of
....


It's worth noting (again) that a very simple technological/social solution
to the "credit card companies have records on people" problem, the one
often cited by "privacy law advocates" as the reason for a Data Privacy
Act, is easily found.

Namely, remove any impediments to the issuance of credit or debit cards
unlinkable to the True Name of a user.  A card issuer could feature this as
a Privacy Card, either backed by transfers of backing capital to accounts,
or using Chaum-style methods.

This is fully feasible using Chaumian credential-revealing mechanisms. (Cf.
Chaum's seminal "Transaction Systems to Make Big Brother Obsolete," in
Communications of the ACM, November 1985. Updated a few times and available
in reprints or other places. Try search engines for latest locations.)

However, the trends are in just the opposite direction, as both Black
Unicorn and Bill Stewart have noted in this thread. Between the War on
Drugs, the laws about money laundering, the fears of tax evasion, and the
general burrowcrat desire to record the movements and actions of
citizen-units, such a Privacy Card would be frowned-upon.

Various roadblocks, ranging from "know your customer" restrictions on banks
to anti-money-laundering laws, would be thrown up to stop any such Privacy
Card.

The real solution is easy.

--Tim May

The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^2,976,221   | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 02:34:10 +0800
To: Declan McCullagh 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 9:55 AM -0800 2/2/98, Declan McCullagh wrote:
>I'm trying to find out what airline flight someone is taking. I have a name
>and know the general travel plans and likely date. How can I find out the
>airline, flight number, and seat number? This is somewhat urgent. (You have
>my assurance that the purpose is legit.)
>
>If anyone has any ideas, I'd appreciate the help.

Monica Lewinski and William Ginsburg are travelling on American Airlines
Flight 420 on Wednesday, 4 February, departing Dulles Airport at 10:45
a.m., EST, and arriving LAX at 3:35 p.m., PST.

Good luck reporting on them, Declan!


--Tim May

The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^2,976,221   | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 02:42:33 +0800
To: Tim May 
Subject: Re: Airline ticket information -- help
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Hah! Assuming this IS what I'm trying to get (and confidentiality binds me
from saying if it is or not), you didn't post the seat number. 

Keep sleuthing, Inspector May!

-Declan


On Mon, 2 Feb 1998, Tim May wrote:

> At 9:55 AM -0800 2/2/98, Declan McCullagh wrote:
> >I'm trying to find out what airline flight someone is taking. I have a name
> >and know the general travel plans and likely date. How can I find out the
> >airline, flight number, and seat number? This is somewhat urgent. (You have
> >my assurance that the purpose is legit.)
> >
> >If anyone has any ideas, I'd appreciate the help.
> 
> Monica Lewinski and William Ginsburg are travelling on American Airlines
> Flight 420 on Wednesday, 4 February, departing Dulles Airport at 10:45
> a.m., EST, and arriving LAX at 3:35 p.m., PST.
> 
> Good luck reporting on them, Declan!
> 
> 
> --Tim May
> 
> The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography
> ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
> Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
> ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
> W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
> Higher Power: 2^2,976,221   | black markets, collapse of governments.
> "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Vicente Silveira 
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 21:26:06 +0800
To: jya@pipeline.com
Subject: Re: More on ISDN Features
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19980130235837.0072cee4@pop.pipeline.com>
Message-ID: <34D5C79F.A4EA70B@certisign.com.br>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Btw, a report from the New Zealand Herald ( 1997-07-21 ) says that
New Zealand's secret facility of Waihopai ( believed to be part of Echelon ) was
being upgraded to be able
to monitor an increasing volume of telecommunications on the Pacific. Even more
interesting is that the NZ's Crimes Act was being modified to allow the interception
of
"private oral communications" ( phone calls ) of foreign states, organizations and
individuals.

The report :  http://www.magnet.ch/serendipity/hermetic/crypto/echelon/nzh1.htm

-vbs

> ...
> I'm much more concerned about the Echelon system which was (finally)
> reported in the Sunday Telegraph just before Xmas.  This system, it is
> alleged, can intercept and look for keywords in ALL international comms
> traffic.  I believe this also gets a mention in the Europarliament report.
>
> Vote early and often for freely available strong encryption!!
> (whatever JR mutters about 'doing him out of his livelihood' :=)  )
> ...
> Key escrow is another example of complete bollocks, IMHO.
> ...








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Eric Cordian 
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 02:04:21 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Bush Gang Suspected In Assault On Presidency
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980202074638.00875dd0@popd.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <199802021755.LAA17199@wire.insync.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Bill Stewart writes:

> EIR is one of the mouthpieces for the Lyndon Larouche cult.

We know what EIR is.  While I wouldn't vote Larouche for President, he is
a very bright economist, and the attacks by the Feds on organizations
supporting him clearly demonstrate the lengths the government will go to
silence its critics in our alleged democracy.  I stopped getting "Fusion" 
magazine, to which I was subscribed, when the government seized it.

> I ran across them in an airport recently, and was surprised to find
> they're now strongly behind Bill Clinton; I'd thought that a few years
> ago they were accusing him of being a tool of the Tri-Lateral
> Commission, though perhaps it was some other group of
> anti-TriLateralists. 

Willie ClitorisBum was groomed for a long time for his present position,
by TriLateraloids, and others.  That is not mutually exclusive with the
notion that the conservatives have assisted in the creation of his current
problems. 

Bush is well integrated into America's Secret Aristocracy, and has been a
member of various associated oganizations since his college days.

Interestingly enough, Reagan left Larouche alone when he was questioning
the mental health of Dukakis, but when Larouche became critical of
Reagan's foreign policy, it was quickly arranged for conservative asset
William Weld to take him out with multiple grand juries in dispersed
geographical locations, over small unrepaid campaign loans.

With all the laws the government has, everyone is guilty of something. 

-- 
Eric Michael Cordian 0+
O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division
"Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 01:25:00 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: SmartCards in the news
Message-ID: <199802021708.MAA14789@panix2.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Also see: http://www.zdnet.com/pcweek/news/0112/12bio.html
---guy

   ---------------------------------------------------------------------

   This article is from Internet Computing (http://www.zdnet.com/icom/).
   Visit this page on the Web at:
   http://www.zdnet.com/icom/content/anchors/199802/02/smarten.net/

   ---------------------------------------------------------------------

   [ Features ]

   February 02, 1998
   Smart Cards Smarten the Net

   By Albert Pang

   For many contractors to the U.S. Department of Defense, the Internet
   will become an important ally this year, helping them resolve one of
   the most daunting challenges when doing business with the government:
   Getting paid on time and with a minimal amount of hassle.

   Thanks to a new breed of smart cards backed by sophisticated Web
   applications, 200 defense contractors will start receiving electronic
   checks (e-check) from the government via secure Internet e-mail
   through a pilot program launched in January 1998. 

   The contractors will use their smart cards to access the mail box,
   validate, and endorse the checks. They will then forward the checks to
   BankBoston or NationsBank, the two authorized banks, that will deposit
   them into their accounts.

   The smart cards, which include digital certificates developed by GTE
   Cybertrust, will play a critical role in helping the defense
   department and other agencies comply with a mandate that requires most
   of the 800 million payments the government makes every year be
   converted to electronic form by January 1, 1999. 

   Because of the mandate, the number of smart-card applications in
   different stages of development within the government has doubled to
   more than 900 in the past year, says Jim Hagedorn, a spokesperson for
   the Treasury Department.

   That's good news for vendors such as Anthony Caputo, chairman of
   Information Resource Engineering (IRE) in Baltimore, which develops
   the smart cards and the readers for the e-check program. 

   "It will create a nice revenue stream," Caputo says, adding that his
   company has issued 100,000 smart cards to government and corporate
   customers mostly for use in private networks.

   Now with the Internet, the smart card market could grow
   substantially, especially in Asia and Europe. "Smart cards are the
   ultimate personal network computers," capable of handling everything
   from simple tasks such as identification to complex ones such as
   online banking and electronic commerce, says Philip Yen, senior vice
   president of chip platform at Visa International in Foster City, CA.

   [TABLE NOT SHOWN]

   Both Visa and its rival MasterCard are engaged in smart-card pilots
   around the world, promoting the use of stored-valued chip cards that
   run on private networks or the Internet.

   For example, AT&T Universal Card is working with Mondex, the
   electronic cash venture majority-owned by MasterCard, to sign up a
   small number of online merchants for a pilot program that will allow
   Internet users to buy products from them using smart cards issued by
   AT&T.

   However, analysts expect acceptance of smart cards in the United
   States to be slower than that in other countries because of privacy
   concerns, interoperability issues (Visa and MasterCard use different
   operating systems, for example), and the desire to put as many complex
   applications as possible on a single card.

   Albert Pang is the online editor of the Internet Computing MagaSite
   Send e-mail to apang@zd.com.

   ---------------------------------------------------------------------

   Copyright (c) 1998 ZDNet. All rights reserved. Reproduction in whole
   or in part in any form or medium without express written permission of
   ZDNet is prohibited. ZDNet and the ZDNet logo are trademarks of
   Ziff-Davis Inc.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 02:57:51 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Bush Gang Suspected In Assault On Presidency
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980202074638.00875dd0@popd.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Bill Stewart  writes:

> EIR is one of the mouthpieces for the Lyndon Larouche cult.

The only remaining one that I know of. :-)
I read their mailing list; it's actually interesting. He certainly was
right about predicting the credit problems in the far east and their
spread to Russia.

> I ran across them in an airport recently, and was surprised to find
> they're now strongly behind Bill Clinton; I'd thought that a few

I found this so amusing that I forwarded it to the list.
Yes, LaRouche likes Clinton.

Also laRouche has a math ph.d. as does Ted Kachynzki.  Do you know any
other kookie math PhDs around here?
> years ago they were accusing him of being a tool of the
> Tri-Lateral Commission, though perhaps it was some other group
> of anti-TriLateralists.
> 
> At 10:22 PM 2/1/98 EST, covici@ccs.covici.com wrote:
> >Bush gang suspected in new assault on Presidency
> >
> >by Edward Spannaus and Jeffrey Steinberg
> >
> >In the midst of the worst global financial crisis in modern history, the
> >United States Presidency has come under renewed, vicious attack from a
> >combination of British and nominally ``American'' Bush-League circles.
> ...
> >From Executive Intelligence Review V25, #5.

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 02:05:57 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Airline ticket information -- help
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I'm trying to find out what airline flight someone is taking. I have a name
and know the general travel plans and likely date. How can I find out the
airline, flight number, and seat number? This is somewhat urgent. (You have
my assurance that the purpose is legit.)

If anyone has any ideas, I'd appreciate the help.

Thanks,

Declan






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 03:16:12 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: The Continued Attack on Cash (Was: "The Right of Anonymity"...) (fwd)
Message-ID: <199802021912.NAA29247@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: "Attila T. Hun" 
> Date: Mon, 02 Feb 98 18:07:57 +0000
> Subject: Re: The Continued Attack on Cash (Was: "The Right of Anonymity"...)

> >I've been doing it for many years. Don't have a checking account, don't
> >own a credit card. I do have a saving account with a local credit union
> >and go in every 3-4 days and withdraw what I need for the next 3-4 days.
> >Pay every bill in cash or money order. 
> 
> first, the use of the credit union includes your SSN and
> they have a total cash transaction at least on your primary
> expenses.

Wrong. I go in once a week and pull out money in a lump sum. I then budget
that money myself. The only thing they have is a sequence of deposits from
paychecks and withdrawals to cash.

>  if you have "consulting" income which can be
> converted to cash, and dont deposit it, then you can do you
> 'high on the hawg' living with the cash --until they bring
> the IRS CID along and look at your 'imputed' income which is
> almost indefensible in their kangaroo courts.

I either take the fees in check and deposit them or else take 'in kind'
trade (eg I did a job if installing Win95 for a customer on some laptops
he'd bought via auction. There was a Tadpole 3XP Sparcbook on there. I took
it for my fee).

> >I'm going to go tomorrow and buy a new laptop at around $1500. 
> 
>     what are you getting for $1500? out here in the boonies 
>     we dont see those kind of prices.

Looks like a Toshiba Satellite 445CTX (133MHz Pentium).

>     well, in the first place, you live in Texas where the
>     attitude to the Feds is rather strong --not as strong as our
>     attitude in rural Utah where the usual transaction is in
>     cash.  out here, a Fed is the same as a revenuer in Eastern
>     Kentucky or Tennessee.  reminds me of the Fed approaching a
>     child and telling him he'd give him $5 if he took him to his
>     father (still) --the boy asked for the money up front. when
>     the Fed asked why, the boy said: "...'cause you aint coming 
>     back".

You don't know Texas or Texans very well...


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |       The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate,       |
   |       but the desire to edit somebody elses words.                 |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                  Sign in Ed Barsis' office         |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jon Cooper 
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 06:15:24 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: distributed cryptographic attack demo
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



hi,

i'm trying to do a demo of a distributed object technology and it seems
to me that many cryptographic attacks would be facilitated by our 
approach.  

do you have any ideas for what a neat distributed effort might be?
the ones i've thought of just don't seem too exciting:

* GNFS of RSA modulus
* attacking SSL
* brute-force RC5 attack

i'm looking for something that would be a sort of viscerally engaging
attack, something that will make people who aren't necessarily 
number theorists or cryptographers take note.

any input would be helpful!

*jon

PS - note that I'm not on cypherpunks so a direct reply would be
most highly appreciated.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jon Cooper 
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 06:49:07 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com
Subject: distributed computing
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I'm in the planning phase of a demo which should demonstrate the power
of a distributed object technology which I'm working with.  Any ideas
for neat crypto-related distributed computation demos would be much
appreciated.

I've thought of:

* brute forcing RC5 (lots of people are doing this already)
* factoring attack on RSA modulus
* Certicom's ECC challenge

But I'm looking for something with more of a sort of gut-level appeal.
Cracking SSL packets might be good.  Hrmm.

thanks for any input ...

*jon





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mix 
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 07:43:38 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199802022253.OAA27023@sirius.infonex.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



subskribe cyferpunks bill@whitehouse.gov







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 08:51:40 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: The Continued Attack on Cash (Was: "The Right of  Anonymity"...)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980202175241.006c95d4@schloss.li>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 3:52 PM -0800 2/2/98, Black Unicorn wrote:
>At 06:07 PM 2/2/98 +0000, Attila T. Hun wrote:
>>    I did-- tried to lay $14K out for a Mercedes (25 years ago).
>>    they wouldnt take it.  so I went and picked up two $7K
>>    cashiers from two different banks.  same thing with a pair
>>    of Lycoming IO540 aircraft engines:  2 8s and a 9 --stay
>>    under the $10K transaction.
>
>Careful.  This may well be illegal now.  Structuring transactions to avoid
>reporting requirements is a felony.
>

Maybe illegal _now_, but Attila didn't say _when_. Further, even our former
prosecutor, Brian, told us that prosecutions are only made when some larger
crime is involved.

(For example, if I made two sub-$10K deposits or withdrawals, and then
later _admitted_ this was to bypass reporting requirements, *BUT* no real
criminal activity or tax evasion was involved, no prosecutor in the land
would bother with something so transparently trivial as this. Unless, of
course, they saw an opportunity to take a thought criminal off the streets.
Which is why I don't describe my financial transactions here.)


>
>(I'm not on cpunks, mail me).

Sorry, if you want to read my words ya gotta subscribe.

--Tim May



The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^2,976,221   | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Marshall Clow 
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 09:18:10 +0800
To: Black Unicorn 
Subject: Re: The Continued Attack on Cash (Was: "The Right of  Anonymity"...)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980202175241.006c95d4@schloss.li>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 3:52 PM -0800 2/2/98, Black Unicorn wrote:
>At 06:07 PM 2/2/98 +0000, Attila T. Hun wrote:
>>    I did-- tried to lay $14K out for a Mercedes (25 years ago).
>>    they wouldnt take it.  so I went and picked up two $7K
>>    cashiers from two different banks.  same thing with a pair
>>    of Lycoming IO540 aircraft engines:  2 8s and a 9 --stay
>>    under the $10K transaction.
>
>Careful.  This may well be illegal now.  Structuring transactions to avoid
>reporting requirements is a felony.
>
Some of the reporting requirements have been changed last year
from $10,000 to $750. Check out 

>May 21, 1997
>
>SUMMARY: The Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (``FinCEN'') is
>proposing to amend the regulations implementing the Bank Secrecy Act to
>require money transmitters and their agents to report and retain
>records of transactions in currency or monetary instruments of at least
>$750 but not more than $10,000 in connection with the transmission or
>other transfer of funds to any person outside the United States, and to
>verify the identity of senders of such transmissions or transfers. The
>proposed rule is intended to address the misuse of money transmitters
>by money launderers and is in addition to the existing rule requiring
>currency transaction reports for amounts exceeding $10,000.


-- Marshall

Marshall Clow     Adobe Systems   

Warning: Objects in calendar are closer than they appear.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Black Unicorn 
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 08:14:56 +0800
To: "Attila T. Hun" 
Subject: Re: The Continued Attack on Cash (Was: "The Right of Anonymity"...)
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980202175241.006c95d4@schloss.li>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 06:07 PM 2/2/98 +0000, Attila T. Hun wrote:
>    I did-- tried to lay $14K out for a Mercedes (25 years ago).
>    they wouldnt take it.  so I went and picked up two $7K
>    cashiers from two different banks.  same thing with a pair
>    of Lycoming IO540 aircraft engines:  2 8s and a 9 --stay
>    under the $10K transaction.

Careful.  This may well be illegal now.  Structuring transactions to avoid
reporting requirements is a felony.
  

(I'm not on cpunks, mail me).





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Attila T. Hun" 
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 02:09:05 +0800
To: attila@primenet.com>
Subject: RE: Dr Dobbs crypto CD
In-Reply-To: <6B5344C210C7D011835C0000F80127668B1610@exna01.securitydynamics.com>
Message-ID: <19980202.165750.attila@hun.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

on or about 980202:0940, in <6B5344C210C7D011835C0000F80127668B1610@exna01.securitydynamics.com>, 
    "Trei, Peter"  was purported to have 
    expostulated to perpetuate an opinion:

>I called them up  [...] the impression that I
>was being told that the contractor was apparently
>imcompetant, and could not turn in a usable master in a
>timely fashion.
>
    pure bullshit. that would have been easily enough 
    remedied --get another contractor or invest $3K for top
    of the line equipment (<$1K if you dont mind fiddling)
    and do it yourself. 

    there may be a problem on their part to pay for the
    mastering and the first press run.  if that's the case,
    a few of us should try to acquire their publshing rights
    and get the job over with.

>There was also some mention of the possiblity of 'legal
>difficulties', though I was given no details on that.
>
    1) the creditor lawyers?

    2) more likely the Feds under EAR since there is code
       on the disk and they know full well the mean time
       to export is <60 minutes.

    the first option is solvable as in the contractor 
    problems.  the second option, well...  you know the 
    drill.

    maybe Peter Junger would like to front this and add it 
    to his open ended actions with the Feds?

    whatever...  but let's DO something; anytime I can get
    reference material in a searchable, displayable format,
    I've already got my wallet open.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3i
Charset: latin1
Comment: No safety this side of the grave. Never was; never will be

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8m15vwBEniiW4WYj/2MEYYA5If1EdDfR76w9b2/EQketdCfmOJaHyw==
=sttZ
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Attila T. Hun" 
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 03:03:51 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: The Continued Attack on Cash (Was: "The Right of Anonymity"...)
In-Reply-To: <199802020709.BAA27402@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <19980202.180706.attila@hun.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

on or about 980202:0109, in <199802020709.BAA27402@einstein.ssz.com>, 
    Jim Choate  was purported to have 
    expostulated to perpetuate an opinion:

>I've been doing it for many years. Don't have a checking account, don't
>own a credit card. I do have a saving account with a local credit union
>and go in every 3-4 days and withdraw what I need for the next 3-4 days.
>Pay every bill in cash or money order. 

first, the use of the credit union includes your SSN and
they have a total cash transaction at least on your primary
expenses.  if you have "consulting" income which can be
converted to cash, and dont deposit it, then you can do you
'high on the hawg' living with the cash --until they bring
the IRS CID along and look at your 'imputed' income which is
almost indefensible in their kangaroo courts.

secondly, you have not dealt with a federal case where there
is implied evidence as they find a clerk in the usual store
you use...

 [snip]
>I'm going to go tomorrow and buy a new laptop at around $1500. 

    what are you getting for $1500? out here in the boonies 
    we dont see those kind of prices.

>I intend
>on paying with a wad of $100 bills. Bet you they don't look twice nor
>will they ask for ID.

    well, in the first place, you live in Texas where the
    attitude to the Feds is rather strong --not as strong as our
    attitude in rural Utah where the usual transaction is in
    cash.  out here, a Fed is the same as a revenuer in Eastern
    Kentucky or Tennessee.  reminds me of the Fed approaching a
    child and telling him he'd give him $5 if he took him to his
    father (still) --the boy asked for the money up front. when
    the Fed asked why, the boy said: "...'cause you aint coming 
    back".

>I've actualy never had a problem paying cash, never had anyone turn real
>money down...

    I did-- tried to lay $14K out for a Mercedes (25 years ago).
    they wouldnt take it.  so I went and picked up two $7K
    cashiers from two different banks.  same thing with a pair
    of Lycoming IO540 aircraft engines:  2 8s and a 9 --stay
    under the $10K transaction.
    
    of course, if you want to take care of the problem:  use a
    chartered blind "Queens' trust over an Antilles NV, a Dutch
    BV, and an FL AG --of course with a friendly banker who just
    arranges to have the bill paid from a correspondent US bank
    --and who pays your European American Express card for
    you...  need cash under $10K?  use an FL bank card.
    Both the Antilles and Dutch banks are porous, so they
    remain shells paid from the bottom up.
    
    so where is digital cash?  probably the most amusing article
    on digital cash is the Neal Stephenson article:  "The Great
    Simolean Caper" which was in:  Time Mag's Special Issue,
    Spring 1995 Volume 145, No.  12.  yes, it presents "our"
    side of it, but shows the backside and obvious ammo for
    Freeh...  it does not seem to be available on the Time
    server, so anyone who wants to read it:
    
         http://www.primenet.com/~attila/pages/simolean.html

    until we really do have a virtual country and virtual 
    cash, they will always be able to trace it.  As I 
    understand it, the banks keep a record on anything over 
    $1k cash which means there is a master list which can 
    be sorted and filtered. over $10K you must fill out the 
    IRS form; for international you are required to file
    Dept of the Treasury form 515.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3i
Charset: latin1
Comment: No safety this side of the grave. Never was; never will be

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sQ7LaI13D2joj9g2crHABfP37G8RnTOekaK4y5CCy1aG0Wa6PgJvDA==
=3nUk
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous Sender 
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 06:41:15 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: County Mounties Spit on the 4th Amendment
Message-ID: <695e7d4cd89037ab6c4e383c56f8fa6b@privacynb.ml.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>Oh! The 4th amendment? That dusty old thing? When the scumbags 
>are kicking in your door which would you rather have protecting >you: a raggedy old piece of paper or a Prince George County >Mountie SWAT team in full ninja dress and the latest high-tech >law-enforcement goodies? Thought so. Cup's at the end of the >counter comrade. Have a nice day. 

You couldn't be talking about Prince George, Canada, could you?
"Mounties" are Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP), and are 
limited to Canada, and Disney World.









From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 10:25:53 +0800
To: "James O'Toole" 
Subject: RE: The Continued Attack on Cash (Was: "The Right ofAnonymity"...)
In-Reply-To: <01BD301E.4FCC8EC0@slip-james.lcs.mit.edu>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 6:01 PM -0800 2/2/98, James O'Toole wrote:
>Tim,
>
>Maintaining anonymity in the face of the regulatory framework is certain
>to be difficult, and anything difficult is usually rare, expensive, or
>both.

???

>An interesting question about the Privacy Card product is whether the
>social pressure against it is strong enough to defeat its privacy whenever
>the product is well advertised.  In other words, will a privacy product
>survive in spite of its own publicity in our current environment, or can
>privacy products only exist when their own existence is relatively
>unknown.  This is interesting because in the latter case, we have only a
>very very weak form of privacy/anonymity because it is hard to be sure how
>much privacy backs a product whose very existence is semi-secret.

If a Privacy Card is legal, and can be issued by Visa, Mastercard, American
Express, Discover, or some new issuer, and if merchants sign on (as would
presumably be the case by default with Visa and so on), then what is the
"social pressure" you speak of?

Corporate cards are already widely accepted...most of you probably have a
card issued to you through your employing institution. I see no "social
pressure" to block usage of my Institute of Applied Ontology corporate AmEx
card.

The real roadblock is that government makes such privacy-protecting
measures either difficult or illegal.

--Tim May

The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^2,976,221   | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Kent Crispin 
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 11:26:37 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: The Continued Attack on Cash (Was: "The Right of Anonymity"...)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980202175241.006c95d4@schloss.li>
Message-ID: <19980202191736.02027@songbird.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Mon, Feb 02, 1998 at 04:46:19PM -0800, Tim May wrote:
> At 3:52 PM -0800 2/2/98, Black Unicorn wrote:
> >At 06:07 PM 2/2/98 +0000, Attila T. Hun wrote:
> >>    I did-- tried to lay $14K out for a Mercedes (25 years ago).
> >>    they wouldnt take it.  so I went and picked up two $7K
> >>    cashiers from two different banks.  same thing with a pair
> >>    of Lycoming IO540 aircraft engines:  2 8s and a 9 --stay
> >>    under the $10K transaction.
> >
> >Careful.  This may well be illegal now.  Structuring transactions to avoid
> >reporting requirements is a felony.
> >
> 
> Maybe illegal _now_, but Attila didn't say _when_. Further, even our former
> prosecutor, Brian, told us that prosecutions are only made when some larger
> crime is involved.
> 
> (For example, if I made two sub-$10K deposits or withdrawals, and then
> later _admitted_ this was to bypass reporting requirements, *BUT* no real
> criminal activity or tax evasion was involved, no prosecutor in the land
> would bother with something so transparently trivial as this. Unless, of
> course, they saw an opportunity to take a thought criminal off the streets.
> Which is why I don't describe my financial transactions here.)
> 
> 
> >
> >(I'm not on cpunks, mail me).
> 
> Sorry, if you want to read my words ya gotta subscribe.

That's precisely his point,isn't it?

-- 
Kent Crispin				"No reason to get excited",
kent@songbird.com			the thief he kindly spoke...
PGP fingerprint:   B1 8B 72 ED 55 21 5E 44  61 F4 58 0F 72 10 65 55
http://songbird.com/kent/pgp_key.html





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Russell Nelson 
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 03:34:01 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: whit diffie on national radio
Message-ID: <19980202191942.113.qmail@desk.crynwr.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



FWIW, Whit Diffie is on NPR's Talk of the Nation RIGHT NOW.  Find your
local NPR affiliate, usually in the low end of the dial.

-- 
-russ   http://web.crynwr.com/~nelson
Crynwr Software supports freed software | PGPok |   Freedom is the primary
521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 315 268 1925 voice |   cause of Peace, Love,
Potsdam, NY 13676-3213  | +1 315 268 9201 FAX   |   Truth and Justice.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 09:32:08 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: INFO-RUSS: Israel Issues Iraq Warning (fwd)
Message-ID: <199802030130.TAA30591@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:
>From INFO-RUSS-request@smarty.ece.jhu.edu Mon Feb  2 19:00:52 1998
Message-Id: <9802022059.AA22808@smarty.ece.jhu.edu>
Errors-To: INFO-RUSS-request@smarty.ece.jhu.edu
Sender: INFO-RUSS-request@smarty.ece.jhu.edu
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 19:32:58 +0200 (IST)
To: info-russ@smarty.ece.jhu.edu
From: info-russ@smarty.ece.jhu.edu
Subject: INFO-RUSS: Israel Issues Iraq Warning


---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Reuters, Sunday February 1 3:34 PM EST

Israel Issues Iraq Warning

JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu Sunday reserved the
option of retaliating for any Iraqi missile attack on Israel, despite
assurances the United States would step in quickly to punish Iraq.

"The only ones who will make decisions, the only ones who make decisions,
are us and us alone," Netanyahu said in remarks on the Iraq crisis in a
speech to visiting American Jews.

During the 1991 Gulf war, Israel held its fire in the face of 39 Iraqi Scud
missile attacks, bowing to U.S. pressure not to take action that could push
Arab states out of a U.S.-led alliance to drive Iraq out of Kuwait.

On a visit to Israel Sunday, U.S. Secretary of State Madeleine Albright
spoke of a U.S. "iron-clad commitment" to Israel's security and gave notice
any Iraqi threat to countries in the region in the current crisis would not
go unpunished.

"If they do threaten their neighbors or do damage to them our response to it
will be swift and forceful," she said.

But in apparent reply, Netanyahu said in his speech: "One thing has to be
understood -- that we will do whatever is necessary to defend Israel and
strengthen Israel's national security."

He said Israelis should view the Iraqi crisis "calmly because there is a
government here that handles matters professionally and with reason."

Netanyahu spoke after convening cabinet ministers to discuss the possibility
that a U.S. assault on Iraq would push Baghdad to launch missiles against
Israel tipped with biological weapons.

After the session, Deputy Defense Minister Silvan Shalom declined to comment
on the deliberations but he said earlier that Israelis were thronging to
army distribution centers to exchange old gas masks.

Israel's Ha'aretz newspaper reported Sunday the United States had agreed in
principle to send Israel vaccines against anthrax and other biological
agents Iraq is believed to possess.

The newspaper report, attributed to U.S. sources, said Israeli leaders asked
Washington to store hundreds of thousands of doses of the vaccines in
Israel.

Asked if Israel had ordered the vaccines, Defense Minister Yitzhak Mordechai
told reporters:

"Some things are done in coordination between us and the United States to be
able to defend ourselves today and in the future against the possibility
that non-conventional weapons will be possessed by someone who wants to
endanger us."

Israeli officials have said the probability was low that Iraq would launch a
strike but authorities have made clear they are preparing for the worst.

The United States is rallying support from allies for a possible attack on
Iraq to punish President Saddam Hussein for not complying with U.N. arms
inspectors searching for documents and materials related to its weapons
programs.

Iraq says it has no nuclear, chemical or biological weapons or ballistic
missiles -- banned under terms of the cease-fire that ended the Gulf War in
which U.S.-led forces drove Iraqi troops out of Kuwait.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 11:35:51 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: The Continued Attack on Cash (Was: "The Right ofAnonymity"...)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 6:42 PM -0800 2/2/98, Anonymous wrote:
>Tim May wrote:
>> The real solution is easy.
>
>
>Easier said than done.
>
>Designing digital cash software is easy.  (Several prototypes exist.)
>Getting people to accept it as having value is not.

The thrust of my arguments, in my several posts in this thread, has been
simply removing the laws which require True Names to be attached to
transactions, bank account, credit cards, etc.

No digital cash is needed.

The rest of Mr. Anonymous' argument is a straw man, based on the difficulty
of implementing digital cash.

When I say the real solution is easy, I mean it. Get rid of the laws
telling people how often and in what amounts they may take money out of
their bank account, get rid of laws telling banks they must narc out
customers who remove "too much" money, and get rid of any laws restricting
the use of names customers and their financial partners may use.

(BTW,  until these actions happen, no widespread use of digital cash is
likely to be accepted as legal. This has a lot to do, I think, with why
d.c. projects are moving so slowly.)

--Tim May


The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^2,976,221   | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 09:49:58 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: VMM question - reply (fwd)
Message-ID: <199802030146.TAA30693@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 01:39:47 -0600
> From: Lenny Blumberg 
> Subject: VMM question - reply

> Hmmmm.....
>       I would imagine that the OS would keep a disk map in memory and
> mark it with a flag to indicate if it's been paged into memory.

This is a function of the "Look Aside Buffer" and the actual operation is a
bit more complicated. The vmm must keep up with which processes have it
mapped, where in their indipendant memory maps it shows up at, what the
status is in each of those maps, whether it's sharable or not (though the
Linux vmm doesn't seem to do any write locking), and probably some functions
that I've missed.

> At
> that point, instead of updating the disk drive - It looks up the page in
> memory and updates that copy.

There are two ways to do this in general...

Write-through: means the vmm goes ahead and not only updates the vmm copy
               but the copy on the drive. Note that this may or may not
               actualy update other copies if a process has one that isn't
               sharable (ie has its own private copy). This has a lot of
               over-head in that there is lots of i/o.

Write-back: means that the data in the individual pages doesn't get written
            to the drive until the page is either swapped out of active
            memory (and written to swap) or is closed. This is a form of
            'lazy propogation'. Again, this doesn't address how other
            processes may have their images effected.

>   The only problem is that at that point,
> you're now running into a mess of lock problems that carry their own
> overhead.

One easy way, at least on a Unix machine, is to keep the system clock setting
when the page is created. Then close them in chronological sequence. This
obviously has it's problems. The first person to open isn't guaranteed to be
the first person done. Another method would be to select via a PRNG the
'first' process to update the page. Then each following would take their
turn according to the spin of the wheel. This leaves us with two options,
as each process closes it only writes the changes that it has made; which
could overwrite the previous user if they edited the same part of the file.
The alternative would be to force each user to create a different file with
some filename convention to differentiate them. Then leave it up to some
unknown method to arbitrate the file propogations at that point by some
'compare and share' method perhaps.

>      Another alternative would be to track the disk map and force a
> write for a page that is pending a read.

How do you know ahead of a read that a process is going to read that page?
Or are you saying that before another process can open a file we force the
first process to go ahead and write its changes? What happens once two or
more have the page mapped and begin editing? How do you propose to manage
the file closure writes that will occur?


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |       The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate,       |
   |       but the desire to edit somebody elses words.                 |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                  Sign in Ed Barsis' office         |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ken Williams 
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 10:23:18 +0800
To: hh-chat@gateway-e.secureservers.net
Subject: Hacker group battles child porn [c|net News, 2/2/98]
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Hacker group battles child porn

C|NET News.Com
News Story:
http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,18717,00.html?st.cn.fd.tkr.news
CNET Radio Interview:
http://www.news.com/Radio/Index/0,55,,00.html?st.cn.fd.tb.ne

        
By Courtney Macavinta

February 2, 1998, 1:10 p.m. PT


A secret society that hunts the Net to reveal the identities of alleged
pedophiles and child pornographers has a message for those who think
there's too much media hype about the problem: Believe what you hear.

Members of a group called Ethical Hackers Against Pedophilia (EHAP -
http://www.hackers.com/ehap/index2.htm) are using their high-tech cracking
talents to find out the identity and physical location of people they say
post child pornography within newsgroups, chat rooms, and Websites. The
17-member nonprofit group also says it tries to determine the sources of
video streaming sites that feature children being sexually assaulted in
real time.

"The pedophiles that are distributing child pornography online are
skirting the law by remaining anonymous. We decided to use the skills that
we possess as hackers, engineers, and teachers to educate the public that
hackers aren't all bad guys, and to help law enforcement in apprehending
the child pornographers," said EHAP's secretary, "Oracle," who asked that
his real name not be published.

"As long as the people are arrested and the kids aren't hurt anymore,
every one of us is willing to accept responsibility for our actions as
long as one kid is helped," he added.

EHAP may go so far as to dig up the Social Security numbers of people it
suspects are producing and distributing child porn on the Net. Under the
guise of a confidential informant, EHAP then passes on these details to
various law enforcement agencies, such as the FBI.

It's virtually impossible to know if EHAP's tips have led to any
investigations or arrests, though the group says its information has been
put to work. Still, its vigilante tactics raise privacy  concerns, as well
as serious questions about law enforcement's possible use of information
that could have been obtained illegally.

According to the FBI, the Net increasingly is being used to lure children
to physical meetings, which could lead to abduction or abuse, and there
has been a boom in child pornography being trafficked online. These acts
violate federal law.

During two congressional hearings last year, FBI officials told lawmakers
they are working to stop the rise in these illegal acts through the 
bureau's Crimes Against Children initiative. 

"The FBI has investigated more than 70 cases involving pedophiles
traveling to meet undercover agents or officers posing
as juveniles for the purpose of engaging in an illicit sexual
relationship," Stephen Wiley, chief of the FBI's violent crime and major
offenders section, testified in November before the House Judiciary
Subcommittee on Crime.

The FBI has launched other special programs, such as Innocent Images, in
which agents go online and portray themselves as children and crack down
on those who solicit encounters with them. The program, which is run by
the Baltimore, Maryland, FBI field office, also serves as a clearinghouse
for tips and information regarding suspected online crimes against
children. The program was started in 1994 after local agents uncovered an
online child porn ring while searching for an abducted boy.

The 13-year-old boy, George Burdynski of Prince Georges County, Maryland,
has never been found. But the program has lead to more than 90 arrests as
well as the development of online crime fighting techniques. For instance,
in October, three Californians were collectively sentenced to 60 years in
prison for running the so-called Orchid Club, an international service
that used the Net to distribute child pornography to its members. 

Despite growing efforts by the FBI and organizations such as the National
Center for Missing and Exploited Children, EHAP says its private campaign
is vital, as these agencies don't have the full-time resources to combat
online child pornography. EHAP also readily admits that it would be
unconstitutional for law enforcement to use some of its methods.

"We're extremely careful about who we hack. There are so many people
trading child porn out there, but we go after the people who are producing
the material. That's who we hunt," Oracle said. "Law enforcement are
restricted in ways we're not--but I'm not saying that we break the
law."

EHAP is not the first group to use its own devices in an effort to assist
law enforcement in tracking down people who they suspect use the Net to
perpetrate crimes.

For example, a worldwide network of Internet users known as the  
CyberAngels provide online safety tips and work with law enforcement to
stop the trading of online pornography. Other Net users have been known to
shut down chat rooms or flame those who they deem pedophiles or sexual
predators. CyberAngels doesn't support the electronic harassment of
others. EHAP keeps its methods confidential.

"Although we would appreciate any information these individuals may have,
to violate the law to get the information is not acceptable," said George
Grotz, a spokesman for the FBI's San Francisco office. "But how many
pedophiles would come to us and say their site had been broken into?"

Still, the FBI and other child protection agencies say they need all the
help they can get.

"Here in the San Francisco office, we have neither the time or resources
to surf the Net looking for child pornography," Grotz added. "That said,
we do respond aggressively when information is brought to our attention
from outside sources, or if we develop information during the process of
another investigation."

The National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, which is supported
by the Justice Department, also expanded its efforts to encompass online
activity. As announced in December at the White House-endorsed Children's
Internet Summit in Washington, the center will launch a Web site on March
1 to collect tips regarding online child porn and suspected crimes against
children.

"It's a huge problem that is as new as the Internet. For law enforcement,
it's not easy to handle," Todd Mitchell, program advocate for the
exploited child unit, said today.

"Parents can't leave their child in front of a computer for hours and
hours where they can stumble upon pornography or be solicited in a chat
room. They have to teach their kids some safety guidelines," he said. 

Regarding private citizens' groups such as EHAP and CyberAngels, he said
there are legitimate concerns, but that community activism is needed.

"If they work in conjunction with law enforcement, it can be something
that is a nice partnership between law enforcement and the community. If
they take the law into their own hands, it could do more harm that good,"
Mitchell said.

[EOF]
--
For more information about EHAP, go to
http://www.hackers.com/ehap/index2.htm
or send email to ehap@hackers.com

Regards,

TATTOOMAN 

Vice President of Ethical Hackers Against Pedophilia 
http://www.hackers.com/ehap/ 
ehap@hackers.com             

http://152.7.11.38/~tattooman/                      






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "James O'Toole" 
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 10:17:38 +0800
To: "'unicorn@schloss.li>
Subject: RE: The Continued Attack on Cash (Was: "The Right of Anonymity"...)
Message-ID: <01BD301E.4FCC8EC0@slip-james.lcs.mit.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Tim,

Maintaining anonymity in the face of the regulatory framework is certain to be difficult, and anything difficult is usually rare, expensive, or both.

An interesting question about the Privacy Card product is whether the social pressure against it is strong enough to defeat its privacy whenever the product is well advertised.  In other words, will a privacy product survive in spite of its own publicity in our current environment, or can privacy products only exist when their own existence is relatively unknown.  This is interesting because in the latter case, we have only a very very weak form of privacy/anonymity because it is hard to be sure how much privacy backs a product whose very existence is semi-secret.

Maybe we should consider putting up, and encouraging existing privacy-enhanced institutions to put up, challenge prizes based on privacy/anonymity preservation.  Just as we've seen prizes set for the cracking of specific composites and encrypted messages, we could ask Credit Suisse to put $1M in an escrow account at their main branch (Zurich?).  This escrow account would be a numbered account held by a trustee selected by the bank.  Let's say they wire $1000 per week to RSA Data Security in California, or to EFF.ORG, or to me, for that matter, and I wire it back.  I publish the full text of any documentation I can get from my bank account (an empty account I would maintain for this anonymity challenge).  Credit Suisse would promise to release the contents of the account to the first person to arrive at their main branch and present the name of the trustee.

That's not a very creative challenge...this could use more thought.

The point is that as far as I know, we haven't yet seen any really solid rewards placed to validate, advertise, or demonstrate the weakness of, well-known privacy-enhanced financial systems.  I don't even know that Digicash, which would be another logical sponsor, has put up such a challenge.  Have they?

  --Jim


----------
From: 	Tim May[SMTP:tcmay@got.net]
Sent: 	Monday, February 02, 1998 1:18 PM
To: 	Black Unicorn
Cc: 	rotenberg@epic.org; nym@vorlon.mit.edu; dcsb@ai.mit.edu; cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: 	Re: The Continued Attack on Cash (Was: "The Right of Anonymity"...)

At 10:51 PM -0800 2/1/98, Black Unicorn wrote:
>Mr. May said:
>
>>Suffice it to say that I find nearly all cases where someone is "demanding"
>>personal information to be cases where the government has required them to,
>>for various unseemly purposes, or in cases where credit is being arranged.
>
>Of late I tried to pay off a rather large American Express bill.
>
>Suddenly, AMEX won't take cash in excess of $1,000 in any single billing
>period (30 days).  The large sign on the wall indicated the substance of
....


It's worth noting (again) that a very simple technological/social solution
to the "credit card companies have records on people" problem, the one
often cited by "privacy law advocates" as the reason for a Data Privacy
Act, is easily found.

Namely, remove any impediments to the issuance of credit or debit cards
unlinkable to the True Name of a user.  A card issuer could feature this as
a Privacy Card, either backed by transfers of backing capital to accounts,
or using Chaum-style methods.

This is fully feasible using Chaumian credential-revealing mechanisms. (Cf.
Chaum's seminal "Transaction Systems to Make Big Brother Obsolete," in
Communications of the ACM, November 1985. Updated a few times and available
in reprints or other places. Try search engines for latest locations.)

However, the trends are in just the opposite direction, as both Black
Unicorn and Bill Stewart have noted in this thread. Between the War on
Drugs, the laws about money laundering, the fears of tax evasion, and the
general burrowcrat desire to record the movements and actions of
citizen-units, such a Privacy Card would be frowned-upon.

Various roadblocks, ranging from "know your customer" restrictions on banks
to anti-money-laundering laws, would be thrown up to stop any such Privacy
Card.

The real solution is easy.

--Tim May

The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^2,976,221   | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."




For help on using this list (especially unsubscribing), send a message to
"dcsb-request@ai.mit.edu" with one line of text: "help".








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: fnorky@geocities.com (Douglas L. Peterson)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 05:52:32 +0800
To: Ray Arachelian 
Subject: Re: Spyking snips: Police MDT's + cia/russian spying
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <34d73c32.9887174@smtp.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Wed, 28 Jan 1998 13:03:42 -0500 (EST), you wrote:
>
>2)From: "Brandon Robinson" 
>Subject: Re: Monitoring MDT's 
>
>>14)From: "self destruct" <
>>Subject: Monitoring MDT's
>>hi all,....i am wondering if there is a way to monitor police MDT's
>>(mobile display terminals)
>>i have the frq. that they use but i dont know how to hook up a scanner to
>>p/c. any thoughts would be appreciated thank you
>
>Since no one else seemed to respond to this, I guess I will...first off
>M.D.T. stands for (Mobile Data Terminals), I got this posting off some
>group I can't really remeber where from, but it is informative, and was
>the
>subject of a Feb, '97 "911Dispatcher Magazine" story. It should answer all
>of your questions, I also have a list of some places where you can buy the
>unit pre-made, or a kit to make your own. I have left the Source code out
>on purpose as it is rather lengthy, if you want it I can send it to you. 
>
>-BBR

[BIG SNIP of story]

After reading all the stuff on MDT's, a got an idea.

How about a central monitoring web site (out of the US).  This system
would run a small server program that could accept input, via the net,
from MDT monitors around the country.  Each MDT monitor would collect
data and send it in once every 5 minutes.

A person could goto a web site and see what is going on around the
country.  Hmmm.  Watching the watchers??

-Doug

-------------------
Douglas L. Peterson
mailto:fnorky@geocities.com
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Heights/1271/





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 11:29:01 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Bush Gang Suspected In Assault On Presidency
In-Reply-To: <19980203014502.13306.qmail@nsm.htp.org>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Anonymous  writes:

> dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) writes:
>
> > Also laRouche has a math ph.d. as does Ted Kachynzki.  Do you know any
> > other kookie math PhDs around here?
>
> I heard a certain Dr. Vulis  got his degree in mathematics.

You heard right.  And you know what oranization is by far the biggest
employer of math phds...

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 11:57:49 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Bush Gang Suspected In Assault On Presidency
Message-ID: <199802030341.WAA06374@panix2.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



   >   From cypherpunks-errors@toad.com Mon Feb  2 22:33:28 1998
   >   
   >   Anonymous  writes:
   >   
   >   > dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) writes:
   >   >
   >   > > Also laRouche has a math ph.d. as does Ted Kachynzki.  Do you know any
   >   > > other kookie math PhDs around here?
   >   >
   >   > I heard a certain Dr. Vulis  got his degree in mathematics.
   >   
   >   You heard right.  And you know what oranization is by far the biggest
   >   employer of math phds...

The Neurotic Society of Assholes.
---guy

   [Vulis replied to himself (what a loser!), I couldn't help myself]





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 15:25:42 +0800
To: Jon Cooper 
Subject: Re: distributed cryptographic attack demo
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980202230929.007e1a30@otc.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 01:28 PM 2/2/98 -0800, Jon Cooper wrote:
>hi,
>
>i'm trying to do a demo of a distributed object technology and it seems
>to me that many cryptographic attacks would be facilitated by our 
>approach.  
>


Oh, you mean like Counterpane's screen saver or the various
international key cracking escapades.  Well, duh.

Want to impress the masses?  Order "The joy of sex" using
Clinton's mastercard and forward complete documentation
to the Wash Post.





David Honig 			honig@alum.mit.edu
---------------------------------------------------
If we can prevent the government from wasting the labours of the people
under the pretense of
 caring for them, they will be happy.  -TJ





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ghio@temp0207.myriad.ml.org (Matthew Ghio)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 12:42:32 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Jim Bell Update
Message-ID: <199802030430.XAA29097@myriad>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Bell wrote:

> "I think that one last (temporary) hope for government is to delay AP.
> Chances are good that the "think tank" decided thatt the best way to delay
> AP is to discredit me, its author. It was a desperate gamble, particularly
> because the act of harrassing me automatically gives AP more publicity.
> That's the reason they will fail; the more they try to "get" me, the worse
> it will be for them."

The government already has plans for dealing with AP (what do you think all
those secret service guys in DC are supposed to be doing?)

Whether AP is inevitable or not, if people don't know where you are, they
can't come kill you.  This is why privacy is so important in the digital
era.

Of course, there are still nukes, but as has been pointed out already many
times, the use of a nuclear weapon is likely to kill more friends than
enemies.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 13:37:29 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Memory Management (fwd)
Message-ID: <199802030535.XAA32230@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 23:01:16 -0600
> From: Stu Green 
> Subject: Re: Memory Management

> >  >       I would imagine that the OS would keep a disk map in memory and
> >  > mark it with a flag to indicate if it's been paged into memory.
> > 
> >  This is a function of the "Look Aside Buffer" and the actual operation is a
> >  bit more complicated.

> Jim - I'm familiar with the 'translation look aside'buffers
> on
> RISC chips, especially on the MIPS where it provides a
> method
> of managing cache flushes and reloads on writes and does act
> like a page fault to intiate the writes.  I haved seen TLBs
> associated with disk operations, but that don't mean shit to
> a
> tree.

It turns out, I've been doing more reading on vmm on NT, that the model
that's implimented in NT is a hybrid of the MIPS 4000 model and the 386
model. That rationale is that this allows the actual code in the HAL to be
much smaller by taking advantage of the different hardware aspects of the
cpu architetures (this means speed).

Don't know if I am going to get this right since I still haven't figured out
all the intricacies. But this is what I *think* is going on (in NT)...

The TLB (Translation Lookaside Buffer) is used in NT to determine if the
page frame is currently in memory or swapped out. It does this by marking a
frame 'invalid' if it's swapped out and listing it's actual page frame
number if it's a valid page. Invalid does *not* mean that it can't still be
in memory. The reason is that each process has a 'Page Frame Directory' which
lists all the valid Page Table Pages for that process. Each of these Page
Table Pages lists where each Page Frame Page is within that processes memory
map (and that's a whole nother issue with various parts being pageable and
non-pageable as well as system or user level). Each Page Frame Page knowns
where the individual pages are (ie in memory or swapped out). There is a
rather tedious mechanism that translates the virtual addresses to PFD's,
PTP's, and finaly to PFP's. That's what I'm trying to get a handle on now.
Now these various page related structures get quite big and themselves need
to be swapped out. So there is a level of recursion in here. There is also a
Page Table Page structure called a 'Prototype PTE Address' (a PTE is a Page
Table Entry - ie a valid page frame, these things seem to have several
different names making it confusing to follow at times) which is used to
allow processes to share a PTE across PFD's. Once we get to a PTE we actualy
have a 4k chunk of code or data that a cpu can operate on/with.

So, there is where I'm at right now...

Hope that makes it clear as mud.

Naslajdyatciya!

ps. I am enjoying my Toshiba 445CDX, it's a pretty cool machine. Anyone
    got any suggestions on a PCMCIA ethernet card?

pss. Next Saturday is the 1st Saturday in Feb. so the Dallas 1st.
     Saturday Sale will be going on. Anyone interested? It's basicaly
     about 20 sq. blocks of computer equipment of every make, model,
     and age imaginable as well as lots of other stuff (time before
     last some guy had Cobra Helicopter IR cameras for $500 ea., would
     make a great IR telescope.). We usualy leave Saturday morning around
     2am and get there a bit before 7am. The sale usualy starts about
     midnite Friday nite and goes until Saturday evening. The best deals
     are early Saturday morning (my experience over about 5 years of
     going anyway).


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |       The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate,       |
   |       but the desire to edit somebody elses words.                 |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                  Sign in Ed Barsis' office         |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 13:54:41 +0800
To: declan@well.com
Subject: Re: Airline ticket information -- help
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> Just as an example, call USAir at 1-800-428-4322, press 1 for automated
> service. It will give you options to check scheduled flights and
> departure times. After you find the flight number, select the option to
> confirm your reservation or select a seat. It will ask for your frequent
> flyer account number, but if you don't enter one, the helpful computer
> will let you enter the passenger's last name instead.


I figured you could probably BS such info out of a helpful customer service
agent, but this is just too fucking easy.

Now I know why Kaczynski wanted to bomb all those airlines and computer
companies.  I wish he'd gotten these idiots.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 10:01:03 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Bush Gang Suspected In Assault On Presidency
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <19980203014502.13306.qmail@nsm.htp.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) writes:

> Also laRouche has a math ph.d. as does Ted Kachynzki.  Do you know any
> other kookie math PhDs around here?

I heard a certain Dr. Vulis  got his degree in mathematics.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 09:42:41 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: The Continued Attack on Cash (Was: "The Right of Anonymity"...)
In-Reply-To: <199802020709.BAA27402@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <199802030132.CAA01785@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Attila T. Hun wrote:

>     until we really do have a virtual country and virtual
>     cash, they will always be able to trace it.  As I
>     understand it, the banks keep a record on anything over
>     $1k cash which means there is a master list which can
>     be sorted and filtered. over $10K you must fill out the
>     IRS form; for international you are required to file
>     Dept of the Treasury form 515.

Ironically, the reglations may be their own undoing here.  It seems most
banks have decided to recoup the expense of all that paperwork by charging
per-transaction ATM fees.  And customers hate transaction fees, so they
tend to take out as much money as possible each time they use the ATM.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 10:54:41 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: The Continued Attack on Cash (Was: "The Right of Anonymity"...)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199802030242.DAA10101@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Tim May wrote:
> The real solution is easy.


Easier said than done.

Designing digital cash software is easy.  (Several prototypes exist.)
Getting people to accept it as having value is not.

But let's suppose that we build a complete fault-tolerant digital cash
system with multiply-redunant servers all over the world, and you can sit
at your computer and trade crypto-credits with whoever you want.

You've got a small fortune worth of e$.  What are you going to buy with it?

Seriously.

Are you going to buy groceries at the local supermarket with cypherbucks?
I doubt it.  Surely you can't use the system to pay for your house or car,
or other government-traceable assets.  And certainly not airline tickets.

Perhaps you could buy a new computer.  That would work, if you could
arrange delivery anonymously (which I doubt).  Or maybe you could pick it
up in person, but you don't need e-cash for that.

About the only practical thing you could buy would be a pre-paid phone
card.  Anything else, you'd need to arrange delivery for, and if you can
have contraband mailed to you, then you can have other things that you
don't want sent to you.

The problem is not digital cash.  The problem is delivering the goods
bought with it.  Solve the delivery problem and digital cash will follow.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 12:17:27 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Bork
Message-ID: <199802030402.FAA19488@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Once-a, zeere-a ves thees keed vhu, tuuk, a 
treep tu seengepure-a, und bruooght elung hees 
sprey peeent.... Und vhee.... he-a feenelly 
ceme-a beck. He-a, hed... cune-a merks ell oofer 
hees buttum.... he-a seeed thet is ves frum 
vhere-a zee verdee vhecked it su... herd.....

Bork Bork Bork!        





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 12:12:43 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Airline ticket information -- help
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199802030405.FAA19763@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Tim May wrote:

> Monica Lewinski and William Ginsburg are travelling on American Airlines
> Flight 420 on Wednesday, 4 February, departing Dulles Airport at 10:45
> a.m., EST, and arriving LAX at 3:35 p.m., PST.
>
> Good luck reporting on them, Declan!


I assume Tim is joking here, but this info really isn't too hard to find.

Just as an example, call USAir at 1-800-428-4322, press 1 for automated
service.  It will give you options to check scheduled flights and
departure times.  After you find the flight number, select the option to
confirm your reservation or select a seat.  It will ask for your frequent
flyer account number, but if you don't enter one, the helpful computer
will let you enter the passenger's last name instead.

Several other airlines have similar services..  Happy hunting!





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 22:47:32 +0800
To: kalliste@aci.net>
Subject: Gilbert Vernam
Message-ID: <34D7287E.1752@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Tuesday 2/3/98 7:02 AM

John Young
J Orlin Grabbe

The crypto problem was solved in 1918.  Vernam and Maugborne [sp?]
did the work.

Gilbert Vernam in 1918. Vernam used two tapes of random characters to
generate the additional characters. With the same tapes at each end set
to the same start position this system was unbreakable. The Germans
decided that the distribution of these key tapes presented too great an
operational problem and the Lorenz machine uses a complicated
mechanical gearing and cam system to generate a pseudo random sequence
with very long period and 10^19 complexity. They thought this
was good enough to ensure unbreakability, it wasn't!

Fushimi's implementation of Lewis and my GFSR algorithm has 
period of 2^521 - 1.  And LOTS of possible starting seeds.

John Young kindly posted my article on putting non-singular binary
matrices in one-to-one correspondence with the natural numbers.

Although the period of a shift register can be 2^521 - 1, 521 bits
determines THE EXACT SEQUENCE of the remaining 2^521 - 522 bits.

Pseudorandom numbers generators have an easier job than bits
used for cryptography.  

Pseudorandom number generators merely have to deceive statistical 
tests.

Orlin   Recall the GIANT radio transmitter in the south of Russia,
perhaps Baku.  

I heard on PBS TV that it was transmitting a shift register sequence. 
The 
Russians were apparently trying to communicate with underwater
submarines.

NSA crypto algorithms mostly rely on shift register sequences - both
linear and NON-LINEAR.  The R register in my SAND report posted at
jya.com implements a non-linear SECRET/NSI feedback algorithm.

Perhaps someone may have to put NSA's SECRET/NSI R register non-linear 
feedback function out on the web some time.  

So that every one can have a good laugh, of course.  Like for the
SECRET/NSI
number 31 algorithm step.

John Young   Judge Svet made a ruling.  I sent a copy
to you by snail mail.

Later,
bill

Title: Colossus Rebuild






The Colossus Rebuild Project
by Anthony E Sale, FBCS

A bit of History

Colossus was designed and built at the Post Office Research
Laboratories at Dollis Hill in North London  in 1943 by a team led by Dr
Tommy Flowers to help Bletchley Park in decoding the intercepted German
telegraphic cipher traffic enciphered using the Lorenz SZ42 cipher
machine.


Lorenz SZ42 cipher machine at Bletchley Park



This cipher machine enciphered electrical teleprinter signals which
used the international 5 bit Baudot teleprinter code. It enciphered the
input plain text by adding to it successively two characters before
transmission. Because this addition was bit by bit modulo 2, at the
receiving end with the Lorenz machine set to the same start position,
the same two characters were added again to the received characters
revealing the original plain text.
This scheme had been developed in
America by Gilbert Vernam in 1918. Vernam used two tapes of random
characters to generate the additional characters. With the same tapes at
each end set to the same start position this system was unbreakable. The
Germans decided that the distribution of these key tapes presented too
great an operational problem and the Lorenz machine uses a complicated
mechanical gearing and cam system to generate a pseudo random sequence
with very long period and 10^19 complexity. They thought this was good
enough to ensure unbreakability, it wasn't!


A bibliography of works discussing the Lorenz
cipher has been compiled by
Frode Weierud is availabe here by
permission.  As is a book chapter describing the
Swedish effort to crack Lorenz.


The German high command thought that the Lorenz machine was
completely unbreakable and used it for their most secret messages,
literally from Hitler to his generals and between generals. The
interception and deciphering of these messages gave Generals Eisenhower
and Montgomery vital information prior to and after D Day in 1944.


Colossus was the world's first large electronic valve programmable
logic calculator, not just one but ten of them were built and
operational in Bletchley Park the home of Allied WW II codebreaking.

The question of what is the worlds first computer is less a question
of history than a question of definition.
The Mark 1 at
Manchester (1948) is a strong contender.


A view of Colossus



Colossus found the wheel settings used by the German Lorenz machine
operator for a particular message. When these had been found, which took
about two hours, they were plugged up on the Tunny machine. It was this
machine which actually deciphered the message.



This is the Tunny room in Bletchley Park in 1945.

Colossus, hardware details


Input:
    cipher text
	punched onto 5 hole paper tape read at 5,000 characters per second by
	optical reader
Output:
    Buffered onto relays: Typewriter printing onto paper roll
Processor:
    Memory 5 characters of 5 bits held in a shift register.
	Clock speed 5kc/s derived from input tape sprocket
	holes. Internally generated bit streams totalling  501 bits in rings of
	lengths equal to the number of mechanical lugs on each of the 12 Lorenz
	wheels. A large number of pluggable logic gates. 20 decade counters
	arranged as 5 by 4 decades. 2,500 valves.
Power supplies
    +200v to -150v at up to 10A.
Power consumption
    4.5KWatt
Size:
    Two banks of racks 7ft 6inches high by 16ft wide spaced 6 ft apart.
	Bedstead, 7ft 6inches high 4ft wide by 10ft long


Colossus, operating cycles

The basic machine cycle: read
a character from tape,  get bits from bit stream generators, perform up
to 100 logic operations, clock result into decade counters.


The cycle determined by the input tape: The intercepted
enciphered text tape is joined into a continuous loop with
about 150 blank characters in the join. Specially punched
start and stop holes indicate the beginning and end of the
cipher text.


On receipt of start hole pulse: Start bit
stream generators and send sampling pulses to reader output. Execute
basic machine cycle until receipt of stop hole pulse: Staticise counter
states onto relays. After a delay, reset counters and reset bit stream
generators to a new start position.

Colossus programming

All programmes hard wired, some permanently, some pluggable.
Conditional jumping possible between
alternative programmes depending on counter outputs.

The Rebuild

Work on the rebuild started two years
ago with the collection of all available information about Colossus,
including a series of official photographs taken in 1945.


The first
stage was to produce accurate machine drawings of the frames for
Colossus (all the original machine drawings had been burnt in 1960).
This involved three months of eyestrain pouring over the photographs and
using 3D projections to transfer the details to a CAD system, EasyCad
running on a 486 PC. 




Next problem was the optical paper tape reader system. The details
of this are not shown in any of the photographs. However I managed to
locate Dr Arnold Lynch who designed the reader system in 1942. Although
well into his 80's Dr Lynch came to my house and using my CAD system we
re-engineered the reader system to his original specifications. Then I
built it and here it is.




It uses original Colossus hard vacuum photocells, shown here on the
left and a mask onto which the image of the tape is projected by a
Colossus lense.



All the racks are now in place.

Here are some of the decade counters.

We are also rebuilding the Tunny machine.


The current state of Colossus: Jan 96

Examples of most
of the circuit panels are now working and the whole machine is working
at one bit level.


We are now rapidly cloning circuit panels to
populate all the racks.

I need lots more valves: EF36, 37 or 37A
pentodes, 6J5 triodes, 6V6 tetrodes and GT1C gas filled triode
thyratrons. The 6J5's and 6V6's should be the large glass versions to
look right.


Please send any contributions, valves or money,  to me (Tony Sale)
at   "The Colossus Rebuild Project, 15 Northampton Road, Bromham, Beds 
MK43 8QB"    tel: 01234 822788  email:
TSale@qufaro.demon.co.uk


Come and see the Colossus Rebuild, the Lorenz machine and codebreaking
exhibitions in Bletchley Park.



This page was created by Tony Sale
(tsale@qufaro.demon.co.uk)
of the Bletchley Park Trust, and
has been modified by Jeff Goldberg
(J.Goldberg@Cranfield.ac.uk)
of the Cranfield University Computer
Centre.



Title: Cryptome







  
    
      
	  
	  Cryptome
	
	
	•
	
	JYA/Urban
	Deadline
	
	OpEd
    
  


_______________________________________________________________________________________

File               Topic                                             Date

_______________________________________________________________________________________



sib.htm            Scientists in Black                               February 3, 1998
CAP                The Cryptographic Analysis Program (offsite)      February 2, 1998
Arne Beurling      The Geheimschreiber Secret (offsite)              February 2, 1998
Army Stegano       US Army Steganography (offsite)                   February 2, 1998

Colossus           Rebuilding Colossus (offsite)                     February 2, 1998
Frode Crypto       Cryptology Papers (offsite)                       February 2, 1998
jimbell9.htm       Jim Bell Update                                   February 2, 1998
echelon-boost      NSA Surveillance System Boosted (offsite)         February 2, 1998
cn020298.txt       Crypto News                                       February 2, 1998

bxa020298.txt      BXA Meet on Export Rules and Procedures           February 2, 1998
cs020298.txt       Rules to Challenge Customs Seizures (63K)         February 2, 1998
usg020298.txt      USG Secret Meets                                  February 2, 1998
echelon.htm        NSA Global Surveillance System                    February 2, 1998
cathedral.htm      The Cathedral and the Bazaar                      February 1, 1998

natsec-rule.htm    Protection of National Security Information       February 1, 1998
47cfr216.txt       National Communications Issuance System (106K)    February 1, 1998
47cfr213.txt       Emergency Telecomms Precedence System (17K)       February 1, 1998
47cfr202.txt       National Security Emergency Plans & Ops (27K)     February 1, 1998
47cfr201.txt       Policy for Telecomms During Emergencies (12K)     February 1, 1998

44cfr336.txt       Facilities for National Security Emergency (14K)  February 1, 1998
44cfr334.txt       FEMA Graduated Mobilization Response (14K)        February 1, 1998
32cfr322.txt       Privacy Act Exemption for NSA Records (40K)       February 1, 1998
32cfr299.txt       National Security Agency FOIA Program (8K)        February 1, 1998
32cfr2101.txt      National Security Council FOIA Requests (24K)     February 1, 1998

32cfr185.txt       Military Support to Civil Authorities (52K)       February 1, 1998
31cfr9.txt         Effects of Imported Articles on National Security February 1, 1998
22cfr124.txt       Contracts, Off-Shore Buys, Defense Services (42K) February 1, 1998
22cfr123.txt       Licenses for the Export of Defense Articles (51K) February 1, 1998
22cfr121.txt       United States Munitions List (92K)                February 1, 1998
_______________________________________________________________________________________


ntia-dnsdrft.htm   Draft Proposal for New Domain Name System         January 30, 1998
korczak.txt        Boris Korczak: CIA Agent Seeks Payment            January 30, 1998
pm87.txt           Prez on Terrorist Threat to Middle East Peace     January 30, 1998

leahy-wipo.txt     Senator Leahy on Ratifying WIPO Treaties          January 30, 1998
32cfr147.txt       DoD: Policies for Access to Classified Info       January 30, 1998
32cfr148.txt       DoD: Facilities for Storing Classified Info       January 30, 1998
32cfr149.txt       DoD: National Policy on Technical Surveillance    January 30, 1998
ntia012798.htm     RFC: Self-Regulation for Privacy Protection       January 30, 1998

cylinked.htm       Latest: Cylinked to Organized Crime?              January 29, 1998
websoft-warn.htm   Web Software Warning                              January 29, 1998
scant-peril.htm    U.S. Spy Agencies Pauline Peril                   January 29, 1998
mossburg.htm       E-Comm Forum on E-Authentication and DigSig       January 29, 1998
pollard.htm        Bankers O Table on E-Authentication and DigSig    January 29, 1998

brown.htm          Secret Service on Financial Instruments Fraud     Janaury 29, 1998
rpk-hack.htm       Invite to Hack RPK InvisiMail                     January 29, 1998
nrc012998.txt      Generic Letter on Y2K Readiness for Nuke Plants   January 29, 1998
fc012998.txt       FinCEN RFC on Information Collection              January 29, 1998
dtc012998.txt      Arms Export to Saudi Arabia                       January 29, 1998

nsa-etc-nf.htm     NSA, Echelon, Trade & Crypto/Netscape & Fortify   January 28, 1998
dod012898.txt      DoD Blacklist of Higher Education                 January 28, 1998
47usc1002.txt      Interception of Digital and Other Communications  January 28, 1998
cn012898.txt       Crypto News                                       January 28, 1998
cn012798.txt       Crypto News                                       January 27, 1998

bxa-fy98.txt       BXA Funding FY 1998                               January 27, 1998
cia-tsang.htm      CIA Concedes Spying on Americans                  January 26, 1998
atpc.htm           EU-Parliament: Technologies of Political Control  January 26, 1998
us-crypto.htm      US Crypto Policy                                  January 25, 1998
pg-nzcrypto.htm    New Zealand Crypto Policy                         January 24, 1998

ra-ukcrypto.htm    UK Crypto Policy                                  January 24, 1998
whp012398.htm      Payne/Morales vs. NSA: Reply to Defendant         January 23, 1998
kellner.htm        Intellectuals and New Technologies (66K)          January 23, 1998
bxa012398.txt      BXA Penalizes Export Violator                     January 23, 1998
osd012398.txt      Compensation of North Viet-Imprisoned Operatives  January 23, 1998

dod012398.txt      Defense Dept Secret Meets                         January 23, 1998
walton-pk.htm      GCHQ: The Pre-History of Public Key Cryptography  January 22, 1998
primer             The Proliferation Primer (offsite)                January 22, 1998
sh105-238.txt      Proliferation and US Export Controls (196K)       January 22, 1998
sh105-267.txt      Safety and Reliability of US Nukes (347K)         January 22, 1998

acda012298.txt     Arms Control Secret Meet                          January 22, 1998
pd012298.txt       Prez Notice on Mideast Terrorism Emergency        January 22, 1998
bia012298.txt      Rule on Indian Casinos                            January 22, 1998
cn012198.txt       Crypto News                                       January 21, 1998
fc98.htm           Financial Cryptography '98                        January 20, 1998

doj-ssgsup.htm     Supplement to Fed Guide for Seizing Computers     January 20, 1998
cn-netreg.htm      New Chinese Internet Regulations                  January 20, 1998
pg-get-MSkey.htm   How to Recover Private Keys for Microsoft Wares   January 20, 1998
ietf-dea-97.htm    IETF Draft Encryption Algorithms 1997             January 20, 1998
radio-rec.htm      Update: Locating Radio Receivers; Encoder Stolen  January 20, 1998

pipenet.htm        PipeNet Description                               January 20, 1998
dod012098.txt      Defense Dept Secret Meets                         January 20, 1998
bernstein12.htm    Transcript of Bernstein Hearing                   January 19, 1998
fbi-umbc.htm       Barry Smith (FBI) to Speak on Encryption Policy   January 18, 1998
de-snoop.htm       Update: German Surveillance State                 January 17, 1998
bxa-wa-rule.htm    Update 2: BXA Rule on the Wassenaar Arrangement   January 16, 1998

pd98-10.htm        Prez OKs China's Nuclear Controls                 January 16, 1998
tcryptol           Theory of Cryptography Library (offsite)          January 16, 1998
cn011698.htm       Crypto News                                       January 16, 1998
nsasuit8.htm       USA/NSA Responds to Payne/Morales Motion          Janaury 16, 1998
dod011698.txt      Defense Dept Secret Meets                         January 16, 1998

bxa011398.txt      Materials Advisory Meet                           January 15, 1998
crypto-kong.htm    Announcing Crypto Kong                            January 15, 1998
occ-dstc.htm       OCC OKs CA as Authorized Banking Activity         January 14, 1998
aes-980820         Advanced Encryption Standard Conference (offsite) January 14, 1998
ustr010898.txt     Update: Telecommunications Trade Agreements       January 14, 1998

rc2.htm            Rivest Describes RC2 Encryption Algorithm         January 13, 1998
fc011398.txt       FinCEN Regulates Card Clubs                       January 13, 1998
ta011298.txt       Key Management Infrastructure Meet                January 12, 1998
nist011298.txt     Transmission-Electron Microscopy Meet             January 12, 1998
doa011298.txt      Army Hazard Containment Invention                 January 12, 1998

gps-jam.htm        GPS Jamming                                       January 11, 1998
arthur.htm         The Force of An Idea: Theory of USA v. Microsoft  January 10, 1998
RSA-stego.htm      Batch RSA for Stego Data                          January 9, 1998
batch-DSA.htm      Batch DSA                                         January 9, 1998
cell-track.htm     Update 2: Mobile Cell Phone Surveillance          January 9, 1998

fiat-rsa.htm       Fiat's Batch RSA                                  January 9, 1998
aes010798.htm      Update: Advanced Encryption Standard              January 9, 1998
doj010998.txt      RFC: USA v. IBM/STK Antitrust Suit                January 9, 1998
bmd010898.txt      Ballistic Missile Defense Secret Meet             January 9, 1998
nih010898.txt      Commercialization of Medical Data                 January 9, 1998

fas-pde            Prez Directives/Executive Orders (offsite)        January 7, 1998
ussc-ecopy.htm     Sentencing for Electronic Copyright Violations    January 6, 1998
ussc010698.txt     RFC: US Sentencing Guidelines (254K)              January 6, 1997
mercier.htm        Terrorists, WMD, and the US Army Reserve          January 6, 1998
terror-rnd.htm     US Counterterrorism R&D Program                   January 6, 1998

belet              Bob East Letter on AP/Jim Bell/IRS (offsite)      January 6, 1998
pitfalls           Schneier: Security Pitfalls in Crypto (offsite)   January 5, 1998
dsb010598.txt      Defense Science Board Secret Meets                January 5, 1998
ntia010598.txt     Funds for Public Telecommunications               January 5, 1998
cn010598.txt       Electronic Surveillance News                      January 5, 1998

csda.htm           Cypherpunks Smartcard Developer Association       January 4, 1998
aimd-98-21.htm     Executive Guide: Info Security Management (139K)  January 3, 1998
blast-mono.htm     Blast Resistant Doors Monograph                   January 3, 1998
tempest-door.htm   Electromagnetic Shielding/TEMPEST Door            January 3, 1998
ehj.htm            Banned Basque Video: Democratic Alternative       January 3, 1998


fda010298.htm      Policy for External Penile Rigidity Devices       January 2, 1998
doe010298.htm      Defense Nuclear Facilities Safety Plan            January 2, 1998
dos010298.txt      Meet on Global Communications and Info Policy     January 2, 1998
doa010298.txt      Army Science Board Meet                           January 2, 1998

_______________________________________________________________________________________







  
    
      
	
	    Cryptomb 2
	  
	  
	  June-December 1997
	  
	    
	  
	   Cryptomb
	  1
	  
	  To May 31 1997
      
    
  
  
  •
  
    
    •
  
  
  •
  
  •
  
  (site
  stats)
  
  
    
      
	
	    DoE: Pay Bill
	  Payne  
      
      
	
	  DoJ: Free Jim Bell
      
    
  




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 14:36:29 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Exon oxen gored
Message-ID: <199802030625.HAA07572@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Exon and his ilk have loose bowels and bladder control problems. 
They shit all over the populace and urinate all over the Constitution.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 16:19:02 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Inquiry
Message-ID: <199802030745.IAA15801@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Dimitri "Buttfuck" Vulis' reheated, refurbished, and regurgitated 
cud is completely inappropriate for the mailing lists into which 
it is cross-ruminated.

      ,,,
 -ooO(o o)Ooo- Dimitri "Buttfuck" Vulis
      (_)






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 22:15:58 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Scientists in Black
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980203140145.00756490@pop.pipeline.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



In "Scientists in Black,"Jeffrey Richelson, noted intel author, 
surveys use of vast archives of classified intelligence data by 
select civilian scientists under the Medea program (SciAm,
Feburary 1998).

   http://jya.com/sib.htm  (40K with 4 images)

Thanks to PJP for pointing.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 01:23:59 +0800
To: "Michael H. Warfield" 
Subject: UrsinePunks  (Re: County Mounties Spit on the 4th Amendment)
In-Reply-To: <695e7d4cd89037ab6c4e383c56f8fa6b@privacynb.ml.org>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 6:25 AM -0800 2/3/98, Michael H. Warfield wrote:

>"Supertroupers" refers to State Patrol.  The term "Smokie" (coined from
>the movie Smokie and the Bandit) refers to all police.

Nope, not coined from the movie.

Just the reverse.

Highway cops were called "smokies" (or "smokeys") when I was growing up in
Virginia in the 60s, long before the movie.

I haven't checked the derivation, but had always assumed it came from the
Smokey the Bear figure, who wore a tall, broad-brimmed hat (also known as a
campaign hat). The hat worn by many state highway patrols. Ergo, "smokeys."

(I used to see the _real_ Smokey the Bear at the Washington Zoo. I think he
died of old age in the 1970s.)

(A URL with a few details is
http://www.4j.lane.edu/websites/roosevelt/Connections/smokey.html)


--Tim May, posting from the Bear State

"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^3,021,377   | black markets, collapse of governments.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Michael H. Warfield" 
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 22:32:17 +0800
To: nobody@privacynb.ml.org
Subject: Re: County Mounties Spit on the 4th Amendment
In-Reply-To: <695e7d4cd89037ab6c4e383c56f8fa6b@privacynb.ml.org>
Message-ID: <199802031425.JAA23565@alcove.wittsend.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Anonymous Sender enscribed thusly:
> >Oh! The 4th amendment? That dusty old thing? When the scumbags 
> >are kicking in your door which would you rather have protecting >you: a raggedy old piece of paper or a Prince George County >Mountie SWAT team in full ninja dress and the latest high-tech >law-enforcement goodies? Thought so. Cup's at the end of the >counter comrade. Have a nice day. 

> You couldn't be talking about Prince George, Canada, could you?
> "Mounties" are Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP), and are 
> limited to Canada, and Disney World.

	"County Mounties" is a CB (Citizens Band Radio for those not
familiar with US radio) slang term in the US for local police.  Conversely
"Supertroupers" refers to State Patrol.  The term "Smokie" (coined from
the movie Smokie and the Bandit) refers to all police.

	Mike
-- 
 Michael H. Warfield    |  (770) 985-6132   |  mhw@WittsEnd.com
  (The Mad Wizard)      |  (770) 925-8248   |  http://www.wittsend.com/mhw/
  NIC whois:  MHW9      |  An optimist believes we live in the best of all
 PGP Key: 0xDF1DD471    |  possible worlds.  A pessimist is sure of it!





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Chip Mefford 
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 22:32:07 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Spammers
In-Reply-To: <34c704c2.971366@128.2.84.191>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Good day list.

I was just in the process of mailing off a copy of the GNU
junk email contract to some sammer or another, and it occured to
me;

It would certainly be nice to collect that 10buks a hit for this
crap,

It will never happen,

Seems alot the spam I recieve originates with a node from uu.net and I am
no big
fan of Ubermesiter John Sidgmore,

Wouldn't it be nice to hold uu.net culpable for all their spamming ways. They
want to own the internet, let them hang for it.

Just a thought, anyone intested in doing a class action to recover
email processing fees?

luv
chipper






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 14:23:50 +0800
To: Simon Fraser 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980203093050.0084dce0@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>> Wouldn't it be nice to hold uu.net culpable for all their spamming ways.
>> They want to own the internet, let them hang for it.
>
>http://www.us.uu.net/support/usepolicy/
>It would be nice to differentiate between the spammers themselves and the
>ISP they use. 

You'd lose a class action suit.  More important is to get them to close
any open sendmail relays at their dialup sites (maybe they have by now),
since those formerly-useful servers are a major tool for spammers.
The other problem is just that they're big enough that if even a small
fraction of their customers are spammers, lots of spam comes from their
customers; at least they don't encourage it, unlike some providers.

If you want to cut way down on spam, there's Paul Vixie's
Realtime BlackHole List service at maps.vix.com.  It uses DNS as a 
convenient query/response server and some short sendmail scripts
to block mail from any site known to have an open smtp relay.
They're fairly zealous, and don't mind throwing away a few extra 
babies to get rid of lots of bathwater, so if you don't want to block
everybody that they block you'll need to hack some sendmail configs.
My main frustration is that they block mail from the ix.netcom.com
smtp servers, which blocked mail from me to the PGP-users list,
but I've found another relay at Netcom that they don't know about :-)
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 14:18:17 +0800
To: "Michael H. Warfield" 
Subject: Re: County Mounties Spit on the 4th Amendment
In-Reply-To: <695e7d4cd89037ab6c4e383c56f8fa6b@privacynb.ml.org>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980203094020.0084dce0@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 09:25 AM 2/3/98 -0500, Michael H. Warfield wrote:
>	"County Mounties" is a CB (Citizens Band Radio for those not
>familiar with US radio) slang term in the US for local police.  Conversely
>"Supertroupers" refers to State Patrol.  The term "Smokie" (coined from
>the movie Smokie and the Bandit) refers to all police.

Argh - get your history right, kid!   The movie Smokey and the Bandit
used the already-current slang for cops, which was based on the
Smokey The Bear hats that many police uniforms use.

				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill@rumplestiltskin.com
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 01:50:23 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com
Subject: A fatal flaw in PGP 6.0
Message-ID: <235883DCF38CD011963A0060972DBB4D20720A@mail.executive.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



This was posted anonymously to alt.security.pgp last night

>Subject: PGP 6.0 alpha3
>Date: 3 Feb 1998 00:15:56 +0100
>
>Anyone else having problems with the alpha of PGP 6.0?  When I try to
encrypt e-mail I get an error:
>
>FATAL ERROR
>
>Unable to find key "ghost@nsa.gov"
>Please obtain a new key from Network associates.
>
>
>Other than that it's pretty slick!  I'm not sure I'd have the default
cypher as ROT-13 though!  I changed mine to RC-2 255-bit.
>
>Anyone else?

Anyone like to confirm this?





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "James O'Toole" 
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 01:20:06 +0800
To: "'Tim May'" 
Subject: RE: The Continued Attack on Cash (Was: "The Right of Anonymity"...)
Message-ID: <01BD308B.1A566960@slip-james.lcs.mit.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Tim, the "social pressure" I was referring to is the process through which the obstacles to privacy-protecting measures are created and enforced.  Examples include both government regulation, which derives part of its support from publicity connecting cash with money laundering with drugs and/or crime, as well as finality/liability rules within non-government financial consortiums, which may strongly encourage proof-of-identity.

Let's take your example of the Institute of Applied Ontology (IAO) corporate Amex card (Ax)... 

Even with no relevant government regulations, we may find that Ax's agreement with merchants requires Ax to at least either pay the merchant or reveal to the merchant all relevant information known to Ax about the cardholder.  The right contract terms between the merchant and Amex will be good for them, and may be good for most consumers, and could easily be sub-optimal for the subset of consumers who highly value privacy.  The impracticality of negotiating special terms with each merchant means that the best plan to get the privacy/anonymity you want may be to set up a card such that Amex will be willing to operate without knowing much about the cardholder.  I assume that's the intent of your IAO corporate Ax card.

What allocation of the liability for card usage do you expect among Amex, IAO, and the cardholder?  Amex will want the liability allocated to IAO and the cardholder, and if Amex does not possess traceable identity information on the cardholder, then Amex will want an enforceable promise to pay from IAO.  To get this, or even to get funds in advance from IAO, we will find that Amex ends up knowing a lot about the identity of IAO or one of its officers.  Pretty soon we'll run up against the problem of whether Tim May can configure a corporate in the U.S. to be operated by people who don't know who he is, and who can't find out who he is (when properly encouraged to cooperate by Ken Starr...).  With or without government regulation, the most reliable people you can hire to operate that corporation for you may only want to do so if they are given the opportunity to somehow "know" you.

I think you can probably use a bank in a privacy-enhancing-locale such as Switzerland as an effective intermediary in Amex card issuance, but if you really don't want the bank to know who you are, you'll probably need a corporate intermediary between you and the bank, with nominee officers.

The real trick is probably to structure the whole thing so that neither the bank nor the nominee officers have anything to lose, including their reputations.  As long as part of their reputation is that they don't act as front men for drug dealers and criminals, we may find that they keep trying to find out enough about who you are to satisfy themselves that you are a good guy.  That's the social pressure flexing its muscles.

>An interesting question about the Privacy Card product is whether the
>social pressure against it is strong enough to defeat its privacy whenever
>the product is well advertised.  In other words, will a privacy product
>survive in spite of its own publicity in our current environment, or can

Corporate cards are already widely accepted...most of you probably have a
card issued to you through your employing institution. I see no "social
pressure" to block usage of my Institute of Applied Ontology corporate AmEx
card.

The real roadblock is that government makes such privacy-protecting
measures either difficult or illegal.

--Tim May

The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^2,976,221   | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."










From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Eric Cordian 
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 01:38:08 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: The War on Some Debts
Message-ID: <199802031640.KAA18766@wire.insync.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



In a further blatant erosion of Constitutional rights, the California
Supreme Court has ruled that a person owing child support who fails to
seek or accept work may be jailed and fined for contempt of court, and
that this does not violate any Constitutional bans on involuntary
servitude or imprisonment for debt. 
 
This reverses nearly a century of contrary rulings.  Look for this
"improved" interpretation to be expanded to other kinds of debts and
judgments as well, as soon as massive public acceptance of it for the
carefully picked child support issue is engineered. 
 
The credit card companies are no doubt carefully analyzing this decision
as we speak. 

-- 
Eric Michael Cordian 0+
O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division
"Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 03:08:59 +0800
To: Eric Cordian 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 8:40 AM -0800 2/3/98, Eric Cordian wrote:
>In a further blatant erosion of Constitutional rights, the California
>Supreme Court has ruled that a person owing child support who fails to
>seek or accept work may be jailed and fined for contempt of court, and
>that this does not violate any Constitutional bans on involuntary
>servitude or imprisonment for debt.

Oh, things like this have been common in California, and elsewhere, for a
long time. It's a big part of the reason many guys I know don't fall into
the marriage trap.

Not only does the court demand that fathers (and, in 0.001% of cases,
mothers) go back to work, they also calculate what the "expected
compensation level" is of a person and assess them alimony and child
support based on _that_ number.

As one example, a friend of mine at Intel was working at home to set up his
own business. His wife left him (cleaning out the checking account and
having movers cart the furniture away while he was on a trip) and then sued
for outlandish alimony and child support benefits.

The court based the amount he owed on what he _had been_ earning as an
engineer at  the company, and what the court figured would have been his
current earnings there, not on what he was actually earning doing his
startup company.  His "earning potential." (Wait til the IRS and Congress
figure they can start taxing folks based on their peak earnings
potential...)

He had to fold his business startup and go back to work. And not just at a
job he liked...he had to find one that paid enough to pay off the bitch,
based on his peak earning potential. This is also known as "supporting her
in the lifestyle to which she had become accustomed"...never mind that when
they were married my friend made damned sure she didn't spend money the way
she wanted to...in her case, she presumably saw the divorce as a way to get
half of all the saved assets, plus an extremely lucrative alimony/child
support deal.

(Meanwhile, the bitch took her property settlement, blew it on an expensive
new car, lots of new furniture, expensive vacations, and, of course, didn't
do a lick of work...until the money ran out. And now that the alimony has
run out, she's now reduced to working as a technician for a disk drive
company. My friend worked his butt off, saved his money, invested wisely,
and is now once again "retired." He doesn't plan to make the same mistake
again. He's mostly hoping she doesn't hire some new lawyers and try to get
another piece of his newly-accumulated assets!)


>This reverses nearly a century of contrary rulings.  Look for this
>"improved" interpretation to be expanded to other kinds of debts and
>judgments as well, as soon as massive public acceptance of it for the
>carefully picked child support issue is engineered.

And, by the way, this whole mess about child support, alimony, and such is
a big reasons for citizen-unit tracking programs. Many levels of
government, from local social services to national agencies, want to know
where the father-units are so that money can be siphoned off to the
mother-units and child-units. All of the talk about "privacy laws" is
mooted by the desire by Big Brother to track and trace "deadbeat dads" and
others who BB thinks need tracking (everyone).

I'm generally in favor of fathers paying for their children, but not the
way things are done now. Where the father may have no visitation or custody
rights, where the mother is often free to just kick back and watch soap
operas on t.v. while the father works his butt off to pay for both
households, where "community property" is divided without regard for who
put the money in in the first place, and so on.

If women want to look at why fewer and fewer men are "prepared to make a
commitment," their favored psychobabble term, they need only look at how
the courts have declared marriage + divorce to be a golddigger's dream.

Marry a guy, divorce him a few years later, which he can't even contest,
and have half of all of his accumulated assets, plus a lucrative benefits
package. Such a deal.

And even being a queer doesn't save someone...I hear that in California the
gays and lesbians are pushing for community property "rights" to be
established.

The whole system needs to be nuked.

--Tim May



"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^3,021,377   | black markets, collapse of governments.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 01:39:33 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: The Continued Attack on Cash (Was: "The Right of Anonymity"...)
In-Reply-To: <199802030242.DAA10101@basement.replay.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 10:31 pm -0500 on 2/2/98, Tim May wrote:


> At 6:42 PM -0800 2/2/98, Anonymous wrote:
> >Tim May wrote:
> >> The real solution is easy.
> >
> >
> >Easier said than done.



> When I say the real solution is easy, I mean it. Get rid of the laws

Nope. Making or repealing laws won't mean too much for the privacy of
transactions, except to reallocate who gets screwed in some kind of
political zero-sum game.

Anyway, laws are there because there's an economic incentive for them to be
there. Reality is not optional. Physics creates economics which creates
laws. Not the other way around. Even morality and ethics come from culture,
which itself is a physical phenomenon, the collective response of humans to
the resources on hand,  which is an economic process if there ever was one.

So, only when digital bearer certificate technology like blind signatures
is proven to be *cheaper* than the current privacy-invasive book entry
transaction regime will there be any demand for digital bearer settlement
of assets, debt, and cash transactions.

Personally, I believe that that time is coming sooner than most people
realize. That's because when someone figures out how to save everyone a
bunch of money with digital bearer certificates, they're going to make a
bunch of money doing it, and the race to the bottom-line will begin.

As I've said here several times before, the paradox will prove to be that
digital bearer settlement will be cheaper to use *because* they're
physically anonymous. You don't *care* what the biometric identity of
someone is, as long as you're protected from bad economic actors, and can
do reputation damage to people who you can prove have damaged you
financially.

Which, as we all know here, is simply a matter of financial cryptography.


The cost of anything is the foregone alternative. People will only demand
more privacy when it's cheaper than not having it. I believe that that time
is coming, rather quickly.

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga



-----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/
Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: 






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 04:34:08 +0800
To: "Attila T. Hun" 
Subject: Re: the best justice money can buy --Lessig suspended
In-Reply-To: <19980203.154218.attila@hun.org>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




I very strongly disagree with Attila the Hun on his views about Microsoft.
But I won't argue the case here.

My comments below are just on some specific points. His general outlook I
am completely at odds with.

At 7:49 AM -0800 2/3/98, Attila T. Hun wrote:

>    at this point, I would say M$ has won the game. W98 will
>    be released with IE4 as the desktop, complete with push
>    channels and www.msn.com --at that point, Jackson --if

On this we agree. Microsoft cannot lose at this point. NT 5.0 and Windows
98 are presumably coming, and will be on 97% of all desktops.

The issue of Netscape's browser is mostly meaningless, anyway, from a
revenue standpoint. Navigator is now free for all users. Unless Big Brother
tells MS what it must sell its browser for--shades of the "Anti Dog-eat-Dog
Law" in "Atlas Shrugged"--it is likely to remain this way.

(The real issue is going to be Web servers. Whether Netscape can prosper in
the world that is coming is unclear.)


>    so... we will have multiple choice of OS: M$ on Intel,
>    M$ on SGI, M$ on Alpha --and SUN goes down the tubes as

I wouldn't be so sure about these choices, either! SGI is hedging their bet
on the MIPS processor family by porting to Intel processors and NT.  (I
predict SGI will drop the MIPS line for workstations and desktops, leaving
the MIPS chips for Nintendo 64 and other such controller-oriented uses.)

And Compaq has announced plans to acquire DEC, so the future of the Alpha
processor is even more in doubt than before. (News reports are that the
deal Intel made with DEC may be killed by this Compaq deal...and even if
both deals go through, Compaq is unlikely to deviate in a major way from
the Intel processor line.)

Even Sun has announced major plans to port Solaris to the Intel Merced
line. (They've long had ports...I mean a _serious_ port. Probably meaning a
move away from the SPARC line.)

So, we've got:

-- MS on Intel-based systems from all major PC makers

-- MS on Intel-based systems from DEC

-- MS on Intel-based systems from SGI

-- MS on Intel-based systems from H-P

-- Solaris and H-PUX (or whatever H-P's UNIX is called) on Intel Merced

And so on.

(I've left out the PowerPC, as it appears now to be limited solely to the
Macintosh market...even IBM and Motorola appear to have acknowledged its
failure.)

Looks to me like Intel is the real winner here.

(And even Intel's competitors in the "Intel compatible" market are
struggling, unable to make the chips. I've written about this several
times. Just yesterday National Semiconductor admitted that its Cyrix chip
unit was losing sales, falling further behind, having huge losses, and not
producing needed new chips. Meanwhile, PC makers who foolishly committed
designs to the AMD design are unable to deliver....CyberMax committed to
the K6 line and is now unable to ship its only product, as the limited
number of chips AMD can make are trickled out to other companies.)

As for Attila's calls to break up MS...could make Bill Gates immensely
wealthier, as he'd then have a piece of the 5 most successful software
companies!

(I assume Attila is not arguing for simply seizing his property and giving
it to others, or running it as a government company, or just padlocking the
doors....)

--Tim May




"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^3,021,377   | black markets, collapse of governments.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Steve Schear 
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 04:40:33 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: New RAND IW Study
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/enriched

 A very interesting RAND study, In Athena's Camp, was recently released. From the preface:

"New modes of war, terrorism, crime, and even radical activism-are
all these emerging from similar information-age dynamics? If so,
what is the best preparation for responding to such modes? When
the subject is warfare, for example, it is common wisdom that militaries
tend to prepare for the last war, and there is much historical
evidence to support this notion. Today, however, it is clear that defense
establishments around the world-and especially in the United
States-are thinking about how war will change, how the "revolution
in military affairs" (RMA) will unfold, and how the next war may well
be quite different from the last. Whether the focus is warfare, terrorism,
crime, or social conflict, we have striven to anticipate what the
spectrum of future wars and other types of conflicts will look like."

http://www.rand.org/publications/MR/MR880

--Steve





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: steve 
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 01:48:49 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: BSAFE 4.0 to force GAK?!
Message-ID: <34D75774.6036@syndata.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



FYI

Jan. 26's Network World has an article on page 33 titled "RSA blasts
(but also supports) Government encryption policy".

The paragraph of note is the fourth paragraph which reads:"The next
version of the RSA encryption toolkit, BSAFE 4.0, will force those
building products with anthing over 56 bit strength encryption to use a
key-recovery center for exportable products...."

I haven't been able to confirm this with other sources yet but the
glaring question is how will this be enforced and how will it affect
domestic products that wish to use BSAFE 4.0 for their crypto. Further
what ramifications does this hold for their S/Mail toolkit for S/MIME?
and I haven't seen this discussed on the list yet.
Steve O
-- 
A picture tells a thousand words.
		Stego


     -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
     Version: 3.1
     GCS/IT/S d--() s+: a-- C++++(++)$ ULS+++@ P++@ L+(++)$ E- W+(+++)$
     N++$ !o K-? w++(+++)$ !O+>++ !M !V PS+(+++)@ PE(++)@ Y++$ PGP@ t+@
     5++@ X++>$ R+++>$ tv+@ b+@ DI+++>$ D+++@>$ G@ e++@>++++ h r* y+ 
     ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Michael H. Warfield" 
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 02:33:51 +0800
To: tcmay@got.net (Tim May)
Subject: Re: UrsinePunks  (Re: County Mounties Spit on the 4th Amendment)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199802031748.MAA24574@alcove.wittsend.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Tim May enscribed thusly:
> At 6:25 AM -0800 2/3/98, Michael H. Warfield wrote:

> >"Supertroupers" refers to State Patrol.  The term "Smokie" (coined from
> >the movie Smokie and the Bandit) refers to all police.

> Nope, not coined from the movie.

> Just the reverse.

> Highway cops were called "smokies" (or "smokeys") when I was growing up in
> Virginia in the 60s, long before the movie.

	Point conceded.  Quite correct.

> I haven't checked the derivation, but had always assumed it came from the
> Smokey the Bear figure, who wore a tall, broad-brimmed hat (also known as a
> campaign hat). The hat worn by many state highway patrols. Ergo, "smokeys."

	Yeah, I think that's true as well, now that you remind me.

> (I used to see the _real_ Smokey the Bear at the Washington Zoo. I think he
> died of old age in the 1970s.)

> (A URL with a few details is
> http://www.4j.lane.edu/websites/roosevelt/Connections/smokey.html)


> --Tim May, posting from the Bear State

> "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."
> ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
> Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
> ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
> W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
> Higher Power: 2^3,021,377   | black markets, collapse of governments.

	Mike
-- 
 Michael H. Warfield    |  (770) 985-6132   |  mhw@WittsEnd.com
  (The Mad Wizard)      |  (770) 925-8248   |  http://www.wittsend.com/mhw/
  NIC whois:  MHW9      |  An optimist believes we live in the best of all
 PGP Key: 0xDF1DD471    |  possible worlds.  A pessimist is sure of it!





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Pepe" 
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 21:36:49 +0800
To: 
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199802031315.FAA00642@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 06:02:41 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: The War on Some Debts
In-Reply-To: <199802031640.KAA18766@wire.insync.net>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Eric Cordian  writes:

> 
> In a further blatant erosion of Constitutional rights, the California
> Supreme Court has ruled that a person owing child support who fails to
> seek or accept work may be jailed and fined for contempt of court, and
> that this does not violate any Constitutional bans on involuntary
> servitude or imprisonment for debt. 
>  
> This reverses nearly a century of contrary rulings.  Look for this
> "improved" interpretation to be expanded to other kinds of debts and
> judgments as well, as soon as massive public acceptance of it for the
> carefully picked child support issue is engineered. 
>  
> The credit card companies are no doubt carefully analyzing this decision
> as we speak. 

Ah yes; once it's established that a parent owing alimony can be forced
to work "to protect the children", expect similar treatments for taxes
and credit card debt and judgments.
The credit card issues are also lobbying very hard to exempt credit card
debts from bankrucpy.
For most of humanity's history, interest rates on loans to individuals
were around 100-200% per annum; default rate was proportionate; bad
debtors were jailed or enslaved; children inherited debt; etc. 

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 03:38:22 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com
Subject: A fatal flaw in PGP 6.0
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



This was posted anonymously to alt.security.pgp last night

>Subject: PGP 6.0 alpha3
>Date: 3 Feb 1998 00:15:56 +0100
>
>Anyone else having problems with the alpha of PGP 6.0?  When I try to
encrypt e-mail I get an error:
>
>FATAL ERROR
>
>Unable to find key "ghost@nsa.gov"
>Please obtain a new key from Network associates.
>
>
>Other than that it's pretty slick!  I'm not sure I'd have the default
cypher as ROT-13 though!  I changed mine to RC-2 255-bit.
>
>Anyone else?

Anyone like to confirm this?






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Simon Fraser 
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 22:48:39 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Spammers
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Note: What I write here are my own views, not necessarily those of my
company. 


On Tue, 3 Feb 1998, Chip Mefford wrote:

> Wouldn't it be nice to hold uu.net culpable for all their spamming ways. They
> want to own the internet, let them hang for it.

http://www.us.uu.net/support/usepolicy/
It would be nice to differentiate between the spammers themselves and the
ISP they use. 


Simon.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Attila T. Hun" 
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 01:39:50 +0800
To: rantproc 
Subject: the best justice money can buy --Lessig suspended
Message-ID: <19980203.154218.attila@hun.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

>>> the best justice money (and politics) can buy

    I really do not believe this --this is bought justice
    as appeals courts never, or at least rarely such as a 
    blatant in the case of a blatant error in a capital 
    murder criminal trial, interfere with a sitting federal
    judge.

    the damage is immense; it delays the first round of
    adjudication by at least 5 months. if I were Joel Klein 
    I would go for the jugular and file action for an 
    immediate divestiture of M$ including injunctions
    against operations and management by Bill Gate$ and
    Steve Ballmer. the appeals court would probably suspend
    the actions, but they would still be there and on the
    table. 

    Jackson at this point will be furious --hopefully he
    keeps total cool. the obvious next move on the part of
    M$ will be to have Jackson disqualified for bias. that
    will make 2 judges in the DC circuit who M$ has wasted.
    Royce Lambert refused to accept the 1994 plea bargain
    --obviously M$ would ask him to recuse if his name came
    out of the barrel; theoretically, cases are assigned by
    lottery --in reality, you can influence the choice of a
    judge as the cases are assigned at the time of filing by
    rotation. --M$ obviously is capable of shopping for a
    judge.

    at this point, I would say M$ has won the game. W98 will
    be released with IE4 as the desktop, complete with push
    channels and www.msn.com --at that point, Jackson --if 
    he is still the sitting judge-- will be forced to make a 
    bad law decision if he tries to block it on the 1994
    agreement: the product is 'integrated' --M$ had the 
    foresight to hoodwink the DOJ --Royce Lambert saw 
    through the smoke screen but the appeals court removed
    him from the case.

    so... we will have multiple choice of OS: M$ on Intel, 
    M$ on SGI, M$ on Alpha --and SUN goes down the tubes as
    they will never capitulate.  M$ will bury IBM with their 
    NT alliance with Ahmdal who clones all the IBM iron 
    --which is fading against the clustered servers. IBM 
    long since gave in on OS/2 versus M$ --it may figure in 
    their corporate strategy, but unless they are willing to
    update past Netscape 2.02 they will lose that as well
    --in fact you can no longer any of the IBM PCs with OS/2
    preloaded --except by special order: in quantity.

    Bill Gate$ for President?  might as well... maybe Lee 
    Harvey Oswald will come to the rescue.

Lessig appointment suspended
By Dan Goodin, C|Net
February 2, 1998, 6:40 p.m.  PT

A federal appeals court has immediately suspended the
appointment of a contested computer expert charged with
collecting and weighing evidence in the antitrust case the
Justice Department has brought against Microsoft.

In a ruling handed down late Monday, the U.S.  Court of
Appeals for the District of Columbia granted Microsoft's
request to halt, pending further review, the proceedings
before visiting Harvard Law School professor Lawrence
Lessig.  U.S.  District Judge Thomas Penfield Jackson
appointed Lessig a "special master" in mid December, giving
the computer and Internet law expert until May 31 to
recommend factual and legal findings in the high-profile
case.

The one-page ruling is a significant--but by no means
final--win for Microsoft, which repeatedly has objected to
Lessig's appointment.  In briefs filed first in district
court and then with the court of appeals, Microsoft
strenuously has opposed the designation of any special
master in the case, but has argued further that Lessig is an
inappropriate choice because he appears to be biased against
the software giant.

In a sternly worded order issued two weeks ago, Jackson
denied Microsoft's request, calling the allegations of bias
"trivial" and "defamatory."  Today's ruling by the court of
appeals is in stark contrast to Jackson's order, and may
indicate that the three-judge panel assigned to hear matters
in the case sees things in a different light.

Rather than permanently halting the proceedings, today's
ruling is an agreement only to consider Microsoft's
challenge to the special master--known in legal parlance as
a writ of mandamus.  In a sign that the judges may be
inclined to agree with Microsoft's arguments on the issue,
however, they handed Redmond an additional win by
immediately halting the proceedings scheduled to take place
before Lessig while the challenge is being heard.

"It is extremely unusual for a court of appeals to reach
down and stop what a district court has ordered," said Rich
Gray, an antitrust attorney at Bergeson, Eliopoulos, Grady &
Gray.  "The court of appeals is saying, 'We're interested in
hearing more about this, and in the meantime, we're going to
put the special master on hold.'"

A Microsoft spokesman agreed.  "This is a very positive
step, but it's only one small step in a long process," said
Jim Cullinan.  "We look forward to presenting our evidence
to the appeals court as well as the trial court."

The court of appeals already had agreed to hear a separate
appeal, in which Microsoft is fighting a preliminary
injunction Jackson issued in December that requires
Microsoft to separate browser software from its Windows
products.  Today's ruling consolidates both motions into the
same April 21 hearing.  It also requires both sides to file
additional briefs concerning the special master challenge by
April 7. Moreover, the government must file its opposition
to Microsoft's appeal of the preliminary injunction by March
2, and Microsoft must respond to that brief by March 9.

Justice Department representatives were not immediately
available for comment.


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Version: 2.6.3i
Charset: latin1
Comment: No safety this side of the grave. Never was; never will be

iQBVAwUBNNc8R7R8UA6T6u61AQH3swIAtVNkbSk80Crg/dseQOP4pPpIbEDGchsl
rWj/sEmXn/2EnWxXBTp4OnkRpJlFbobhbkT3lJqE4Jj2V+MnEGUFzw==
=9S7I
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Attila T. Hun" 
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 01:40:48 +0800
To: rantproc 
Subject: too little too late: SPA takes on M$
Message-ID: <19980203.151905.attila@hun.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

>>> too little and too late, SPA takes on Microsoft

    this might have been a good action in so much as they 
    are well entrenched, in part on M$' money, as Washington
    lobbiests. now, with Lessig's role as the court 
    appointed expert suspended by the appeals court until a
    21 Apr hearing (submissions due in early April), their
    voice will be lost in the court action. any action they
    stimulate with Orrin Hatch's judiciary is a) too late;
    too slow --at least two years; 3) of little consequence 
    as Congress can not legislate against a specific company
    --they can legislate by regulation against an industry; 
    and, 4) more importanty, the Appeals Court castrated
    Johnson's order for the special administrator. 

    still, it is another voice; even though the guidelines 
    are bland, there is no mistalking who the target is; 
    and, in typical M$' fashion they are threatening to drop
    their membership instead of renewing in August.

    there are three areas where M$ is exercising monetary
    influence, even control of the agenda, in legislation or
    justice: the DOJ action with their crying to Daddy (the
    appeals court), the SPA guidelines which they intend to
    force SPA to withdraw, and as part of the closed circle
    negotiating the rules on intellectual property and trade
    for the Western Hemisphere free trade zone --closed
    meetings.

    as I said: Gate$ makes Cornelius Vanderbilt look like a 
    choir boy.


Software group takes on Microsoft 
By Courtney Macavinta
February 2, 1998, 5:05 p.m.  PT

As the federal antitrust lawsuit against Microsoft barrels
forward, a prominent high-tech trade association tomorrow
will release a list of competition principles that strike at
the heart of the case and angered the software giant.

The Software Publishers Association (SPA) hasn't officially
responded to the Justice Department's accusations that
Microsoft violated a 1995 consent decree by requiring
computer makers to bundle its Internet Explorer browser as a
condition of licensing its Windows 95 operating system.  But
the new guidelines echo some of its smaller members' and the
government's complaints regarding Microsoft.

The SPA's guidelines come one day after New York State's
attorney general said he and ten other state prosecutors
subpoenaed Microsoft for evidence of potentially illegal
bundling of Windows and Internet software.  In addition, the
Senate Judiciary Committee and regulatory agencies from
Japan and the European Union also are looking into
Microsoft's business practices.  (See related story)

The SPA says it set out to develop the principles to define
its role in the fair competition debate, which focuses on
its largest member.  The SPA has been sought for advice by
lawmakers in the past, and it states that the new principles
are intended to "guide government officials" in antitrust
enforcement.

Hitting home with Microsoft foes, the SPA principles state:
"Operating systems should not be used to unfairly favor its
own products and services, or its favored partners, over
those competing vendors.  The operating system vendor should
not include its own services or products as part of the
operating system or user interface unless it gives the same
ability to integrate products and services into the
operating system to competing vendors."

The SPA went on to state that "the tying of certain
applications to the sale of other applications has the
effect of restraining competition among independent software
vendors for the 'virtual shelf space' of [PC makers]."
Dominant operating systems also should not "favor Internet
content" that it owns or licenses, according to the
guidelines.

The principles say that healthy competition is reliant on
equal access to retail customers.  On the other hand,
pre-announcing products that do not exist yet, so-called
vaporware, stifles competition.

Prior to developing the principles, the 1,200-member group
surveyed its domestic members.  Of the 164 that responded,
anticompetitive activity was a top concern.  As reported in
January, the issue also took the spotlight at two scheduled
meetings in Santa Clara, California.  The SPA's Government
Affairs Committee even met with Joel Klein, the Justice
Department's lead attorney in the lawsuit against Microsoft.

Microsoft fired back today, calling the SPA's process
"short-sighted" and the publication of the principles
"self-destructive."  The company also quipped that it is
undecided on whether it will renew its SPA membership, which
expires in August.

Although Microsoft was present at the SPA's California
meetings last month, so were some of its main competitors,
such as Novell, Netscape Communications, Apple Computer, and
Oracle Corporation.

"It's unfortunate that a handful of Microsoft's competitors
are trying to use the SPA to drive a wedge into the software
industry.  This whole process has been such an obvious
attack on Microsoft," Mark Murray, a spokesman for the
company, said today.

"I think the primary impact of this is that the SPA will be
discredited, and that it will weaken their ability to serve
as a legitimate voice," he added.

The SPA knew its principles would be searched for hidden
meaning regarding the Microsoft case, but the group contends
it wasn't targeting the company.

"The principles are not intended to prescribe remedies that
might be applied by federal and state antitrust enforcers to
any particular company or set of circumstances," SPA
president Ken Wasch said in a statement.  "Nor are these
principles a call for general regulation of our industry.
Rather, the principles reflect an industry consensus of how
some business practices promote or impair strong
competition."

Still, for a group with no regulatory power, the SPA's
opinion will hold some weight.  The group is expected to
testify before the Senate Judiciary Committee when it holds
hearings on issues of competition in the high-tech industry
this year.

Moreover, the new principles amend the organization's
existing guidelines, which were presented to the Federal
Trade Commission during a hearing two years ago.  During the
hearing, the SPA advised the government to carefully
scrutinize companies that allegedly impede others from
getting space on retail store shelves.  The SPA also took
the position that owners of dominant operating systems
should release essential technical information to other
developers.  Both points remain in the new eight-point plan.

The remaining SPA competition principles include:

Maximize innovation to benefit consumers.

The owners of dominant operating systems should license
their "interface specifications to any third party for the
purposes of developing application software."

"Barriers" should not be put up by dominant operating
systems that limit consumers' or hardware makers' ability to
reconfigure their desktops or utilize any software or online
content services.

Software vendors "should not intentionally disable, cripple,
or otherwise interfere with the intended functionality and
execution of other products."

Operating systems should not prohibit Web sites from
"exploiting the access capabilities of competing products"
or force sites to display and promote their products.


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3i
Charset: latin1
Comment: No safety this side of the grave. Never was; never will be

iQBVAwUBNNc1UbR8UA6T6u61AQHEQwH/cpSHIdQwCR0XVoxqEVya3E15ZBrmI5M8
hln8Dm2qFF39UjsNVLJhp4J4xDnyTdeRCDkGDixzI5qJqDwChz5prw==
=sN0q
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 07:07:56 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Microsoft
Message-ID: <485f03d3211e0c7c6edc431cbfc8dc87@anon.efga.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>    so... we will have multiple choice of OS: M$ on Intel,
>    M$ on SGI, M$ on Alpha --and SUN goes down the tubes as
>    they will never capitulate.  M$ will bury IBM with their
>    NT alliance with Ahmdal who clones all the IBM iron
>    --which is fading against the clustered servers. IBM
>    long since gave in on OS/2 versus M$ --it may figure in
>    their corporate strategy, but unless they are willing to
>    update past Netscape 2.02 they will lose that as well
>    --in fact you can no longer any of the IBM PCs with OS/2
>    preloaded --except by special order: in quantity.


I really am not so worried about Microsoft's software strategy as I am
about their communication infrastructure strategy.  Every time I go to
a computer show or swap meet, I see stacks of Linux CDs selling like hot
cakes.  Most anyone with a clue who doesn't like Billy's crapware knows
precisely where to find something better.

What concerns me more is the partnerships that Billy & Co. are making
with internet providers, especially cable & DSL.  Many of the cable
modem service providers have notoriously bad reputations for using packet
filters to block stuff they don't like.  These days, any internet
provider who tries that shit usually finds its customers going elsewhere,
but when there's only one or two cable providers and Mickeysoft owns them
all, then what?

The solution, of course, is encrypted IP, something which has been moving
far too slowly.  Frankly I'm pretty disappointed with the apparent
unwillingness of several IETF members to address the obvious MITM attacks,
such as CBC cut-and-paste.  It is going to royally suck when we have to
redo it because the protocol didn't work the first time.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 10:52:45 +0800
To: webmaster@cylink.com
Subject: Jim Omura
Message-ID: <34D7D1DC.4EC6@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Tuesday 2/3/98  7:22 PM

Jim

Let's get this settled.

I have not read

cylinked.htm       Latest: Cylinked to Organized Crime?             
January 29, 1998

YET.

Hope you liked the SAND report, now posted at jya.com, I sent
you in 1992.

I listened carefully at the breakfast you, I, Lou {lew?} Morris
had.

Later
bill

Title: Cryptome







  
    
      
	  
	  Cryptome
	
	
	•
	
	JYA/Urban
	Deadline
	
	OpEd
    
  


_______________________________________________________________________________________

File               Topic                                             Date

_______________________________________________________________________________________


In Athena's Camp   Preparing for Conflict in the Info Age (offsite)  February 3, 1998
cylink-sins.htm    Cylink Secures SINS                               February 3, 1998
pg-get-MSkey.htm   Update: How to Recover Private Keys for MS Wares  February 3, 1998

bxa020398.txt      Exports of High Performance Computers             February 3, 1998
sib.htm            Scientists in Black                               February 3, 1998
CAP                The Cryptographic Analysis Program (offsite)      February 2, 1998
Arne Beurling      The Geheimschreiber Secret (offsite)              February 2, 1998
Army Stegano       US Army Steganography (offsite)                   February 2, 1998

Colossus           Rebuilding Colossus (offsite)                     February 2, 1998
Frode Crypto       Cryptology Papers (offsite)                       February 2, 1998
jimbell9.htm       Jim Bell Update                                   February 2, 1998
echelon-boost      NSA Surveillance System Boosted (offsite)         February 2, 1998
cn020298.txt       Crypto News                                       February 2, 1998

bxa020298.txt      BXA Meet on Export Rules and Procedures           February 2, 1998
cs020298.txt       Rules to Challenge Customs Seizures (63K)         February 2, 1998
usg020298.txt      USG Secret Meets                                  February 2, 1998
echelon.htm        NSA Global Surveillance System                    February 2, 1998
cathedral.htm      The Cathedral and the Bazaar                      February 1, 1998

natsec-rule.htm    Protection of National Security Information       February 1, 1998
47cfr216.txt       National Communications Issuance System (106K)    February 1, 1998
47cfr213.txt       Emergency Telecomms Precedence System (17K)       February 1, 1998
47cfr202.txt       National Security Emergency Plans & Ops (27K)     February 1, 1998
47cfr201.txt       Policy for Telecomms During Emergencies (12K)     February 1, 1998

44cfr336.txt       Facilities for National Security Emergency (14K)  February 1, 1998
44cfr334.txt       FEMA Graduated Mobilization Response (14K)        February 1, 1998
32cfr322.txt       Privacy Act Exemption for NSA Records (40K)       February 1, 1998
32cfr299.txt       National Security Agency FOIA Program (8K)        February 1, 1998
32cfr2101.txt      National Security Council FOIA Requests (24K)     February 1, 1998

32cfr185.txt       Military Support to Civil Authorities (52K)       February 1, 1998
31cfr9.txt         Effects of Imported Articles on National Security February 1, 1998
22cfr124.txt       Contracts, Off-Shore Buys, Defense Services (42K) February 1, 1998
22cfr123.txt       Licenses for the Export of Defense Articles (51K) February 1, 1998
22cfr121.txt       United States Munitions List (92K)                February 1, 1998
_______________________________________________________________________________________


ntia-dnsdrft.htm   Draft Proposal for New Domain Name System         January 30, 1998
korczak.txt        Boris Korczak: CIA Agent Seeks Payment            January 30, 1998
pm87.txt           Prez on Terrorist Threat to Middle East Peace     January 30, 1998

leahy-wipo.txt     Senator Leahy on Ratifying WIPO Treaties          January 30, 1998
32cfr147.txt       DoD: Policies for Access to Classified Info       January 30, 1998
32cfr148.txt       DoD: Facilities for Storing Classified Info       January 30, 1998
32cfr149.txt       DoD: National Policy on Technical Surveillance    January 30, 1998
ntia012798.htm     RFC: Self-Regulation for Privacy Protection       January 30, 1998

cylinked.htm       Latest: Cylinked to Organized Crime?              January 29, 1998
websoft-warn.htm   Web Software Warning                              January 29, 1998
scant-peril.htm    U.S. Spy Agencies Pauline Peril                   January 29, 1998
mossburg.htm       E-Comm Forum on E-Authentication and DigSig       January 29, 1998
pollard.htm        Bankers O Table on E-Authentication and DigSig    January 29, 1998

brown.htm          Secret Service on Financial Instruments Fraud     Janaury 29, 1998
rpk-hack.htm       Invite to Hack RPK InvisiMail                     January 29, 1998
nrc012998.txt      Generic Letter on Y2K Readiness for Nuke Plants   January 29, 1998
fc012998.txt       FinCEN RFC on Information Collection              January 29, 1998
dtc012998.txt      Arms Export to Saudi Arabia                       January 29, 1998

nsa-etc-nf.htm     NSA, Echelon, Trade & Crypto/Netscape & Fortify   January 28, 1998
dod012898.txt      DoD Blacklist of Higher Education                 January 28, 1998
47usc1002.txt      Interception of Digital and Other Communications  January 28, 1998
cn012898.txt       Crypto News                                       January 28, 1998
cn012798.txt       Crypto News                                       January 27, 1998

bxa-fy98.txt       BXA Funding FY 1998                               January 27, 1998
cia-tsang.htm      CIA Concedes Spying on Americans                  January 26, 1998
atpc.htm           EU-Parliament: Technologies of Political Control  January 26, 1998
us-crypto.htm      US Crypto Policy                                  January 25, 1998
pg-nzcrypto.htm    New Zealand Crypto Policy                         January 24, 1998

ra-ukcrypto.htm    UK Crypto Policy                                  January 24, 1998
whp012398.htm      Payne/Morales vs. NSA: Reply to Defendant         January 23, 1998
kellner.htm        Intellectuals and New Technologies (66K)          January 23, 1998
bxa012398.txt      BXA Penalizes Export Violator                     January 23, 1998
osd012398.txt      Compensation of North Viet-Imprisoned Operatives  January 23, 1998

dod012398.txt      Defense Dept Secret Meets                         January 23, 1998
walton-pk.htm      GCHQ: The Pre-History of Public Key Cryptography  January 22, 1998
primer             The Proliferation Primer (offsite)                January 22, 1998
sh105-238.txt      Proliferation and US Export Controls (196K)       January 22, 1998
sh105-267.txt      Safety and Reliability of US Nukes (347K)         January 22, 1998

acda012298.txt     Arms Control Secret Meet                          January 22, 1998
pd012298.txt       Prez Notice on Mideast Terrorism Emergency        January 22, 1998
bia012298.txt      Rule on Indian Casinos                            January 22, 1998
cn012198.txt       Crypto News                                       January 21, 1998
fc98.htm           Financial Cryptography '98                        January 20, 1998

doj-ssgsup.htm     Supplement to Fed Guide for Seizing Computers     January 20, 1998
cn-netreg.htm      New Chinese Internet Regulations                  January 20, 1998
ietf-dea-97.htm    IETF Draft Encryption Algorithms 1997             January 20, 1998
radio-rec.htm      Update: Locating Radio Receivers; Encoder Stolen  January 20, 1998

pipenet.htm        PipeNet Description                               January 20, 1998
dod012098.txt      Defense Dept Secret Meets                         January 20, 1998
bernstein12.htm    Transcript of Bernstein Hearing                   January 19, 1998
fbi-umbc.htm       Barry Smith (FBI) to Speak on Encryption Policy   January 18, 1998
de-snoop.htm       Update: German Surveillance State                 January 17, 1998
bxa-wa-rule.htm    Update 2: BXA Rule on the Wassenaar Arrangement   January 16, 1998

pd98-10.htm        Prez OKs China's Nuclear Controls                 January 16, 1998
tcryptol           Theory of Cryptography Library (offsite)          January 16, 1998
cn011698.htm       Crypto News                                       January 16, 1998
nsasuit8.htm       USA/NSA Responds to Payne/Morales Motion          Janaury 16, 1998
dod011698.txt      Defense Dept Secret Meets                         January 16, 1998

bxa011398.txt      Materials Advisory Meet                           January 15, 1998
crypto-kong.htm    Announcing Crypto Kong                            January 15, 1998
occ-dstc.htm       OCC OKs CA as Authorized Banking Activity         January 14, 1998
aes-980820         Advanced Encryption Standard Conference (offsite) January 14, 1998
ustr010898.txt     Update: Telecommunications Trade Agreements       January 14, 1998

rc2.htm            Rivest Describes RC2 Encryption Algorithm         January 13, 1998
fc011398.txt       FinCEN Regulates Card Clubs                       January 13, 1998
ta011298.txt       Key Management Infrastructure Meet                January 12, 1998
nist011298.txt     Transmission-Electron Microscopy Meet             January 12, 1998
doa011298.txt      Army Hazard Containment Invention                 January 12, 1998

gps-jam.htm        GPS Jamming                                       January 11, 1998
arthur.htm         The Force of An Idea: Theory of USA v. Microsoft  January 10, 1998
RSA-stego.htm      Batch RSA for Stego Data                          January 9, 1998
batch-DSA.htm      Batch DSA                                         January 9, 1998
cell-track.htm     Update 2: Mobile Cell Phone Surveillance          January 9, 1998

fiat-rsa.htm       Fiat's Batch RSA                                  January 9, 1998
aes010798.htm      Update: Advanced Encryption Standard              January 9, 1998
doj010998.txt      RFC: USA v. IBM/STK Antitrust Suit                January 9, 1998
bmd010898.txt      Ballistic Missile Defense Secret Meet             January 9, 1998
nih010898.txt      Commercialization of Medical Data                 January 9, 1998

fas-pde            Prez Directives/Executive Orders (offsite)        January 7, 1998
ussc-ecopy.htm     Sentencing for Electronic Copyright Violations    January 6, 1998
ussc010698.txt     RFC: US Sentencing Guidelines (254K)              January 6, 1997
mercier.htm        Terrorists, WMD, and the US Army Reserve          January 6, 1998
terror-rnd.htm     US Counterterrorism R&D Program                   January 6, 1998

belet              Bob East Letter on AP/Jim Bell/IRS (offsite)      January 6, 1998
pitfalls           Schneier: Security Pitfalls in Crypto (offsite)   January 5, 1998
dsb010598.txt      Defense Science Board Secret Meets                January 5, 1998
ntia010598.txt     Funds for Public Telecommunications               January 5, 1998
cn010598.txt       Electronic Surveillance News                      January 5, 1998

csda.htm           Cypherpunks Smartcard Developer Association       January 4, 1998
aimd-98-21.htm     Executive Guide: Info Security Management (139K)  January 3, 1998
blast-mono.htm     Blast Resistant Doors Monograph                   January 3, 1998
tempest-door.htm   Electromagnetic Shielding/TEMPEST Door            January 3, 1998
ehj.htm            Banned Basque Video: Democratic Alternative       January 3, 1998


fda010298.htm      Policy for External Penile Rigidity Devices       January 2, 1998
doe010298.htm      Defense Nuclear Facilities Safety Plan            January 2, 1998
dos010298.txt      Meet on Global Communications and Info Policy     January 2, 1998
doa010298.txt      Army Science Board Meet                           January 2, 1998

_______________________________________________________________________________________







  
    
      
	
	    Cryptomb 2
	  
	  
	  June-December 1997
	  
	    
	  
	   Cryptomb
	  1
	  
	  To May 31 1997
      
    
  
  
  •
  
    
    •
  
  
  •
  
  •
  
  (site
  stats)
  
  
    
      
	
	    DoE: Pay Bill
	  Payne  
      
      
	
	  DoJ: Free Jim Bell
      
    
  


Title: Payne/Morales vs. NSA: Reply to Defendant's Response






23 January 1998
Source: William H. Payne

See related documents:
http://jya.com/whpfiles.htm

  
	
FILED
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
DISTRICT OF NEW MEXICO
98 JAN 20 AM11:26
ROBERT M. MARSH
CLERK/ALBUQUERQUE


            UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
           FOR THE DISTRICT OF NEW MEXICO


William H. Payne        	   	    )
Arthur R. Morales                           )
                                            )
                Plaintiffs,                 )
                                            )
v                                           )	CIV NO 97 0266 
					    )	SC/DJS
			                    )
Lieutenant General Kenneth A. Minihan, USAF )
Director, National Security Agency	    )
National Security Agency		    )
                                            )
                Defendant                   )


  REPLY TO DEFENDANT'S RESPONSE TO PLAINTIFFS' MOTION FOR 
  SUMMARY JUDGMENT BASED ON EVIDENCE FROM ADMISSIONS


1  COMES NOW plaintiffs Payne [Payne] and Morales [Morales] 
[Plaintiffs], pro se litigants to exercise their rights 
guaranteed under the Constitution, Rules of Civil  Procedure, 
and Local Civil Rules to respond to Defendant's MOTION filed
on 98 JAN-5 within the 14 days allowed by local rule 7.3(b)(4).


2  US Attorney Mitchell [Mitchell]  writes,

  Counsel for Defendant was not served with copies of any of  
  said Requests for Admissions until sometime after the
  individuals had been served.2

Mitchell WAS SERVED

  PLAINTIFFS' FIRST SET OF REQUEST FOR ADMISSION  TO  
  NSA DIRECTOR KENNETH MINIHAN 

  I HEREBY CERTIFY that a copy of the foregoing request for   
  admissions was mailed to Jan Elizabeth Mitchell, Assistant US 
  Attorney, 525 Silver SW, ABQ, NM 87102 this  Monday November 
  3, 1997. 

Michell was not served with any other admissions since
Mitchell is not representing others.

Plaintiffs' served Defendant Minihan properly.  And Minihan
failed to respond to Minihan's admissions within the time


                                 1



allotted by law.


3 US Attorney Mitchell writes,

  As grounds for the Motion and Memorandum, Defendant
  argued that Plaintiffs had blatantly disregarded this Court's   
  Order pertaining to the conduct of discovery and the deadline 
  for discovery in this Freedom of Information Act action.

Judges Svet and Campos willfully violated Plaintiffs' right
to Discovery.  And thereby earned criminal complaint affidavits
filed with judge Scalia of the Supreme Court.


4 US Attorney Mitchell writes,

  In Defendant's Motion and Memorandum, Counsel for Defendant 
  also objected to Plaintiffs' sua sponte decision to
  modify the Court's June 11 Order to reflect the delay of the
  Court's October 7 Order and the establishment, without leave   
  of this Court, of new deadlines for discovery, motions   
  practice, and the filing of the PreTrial Order. (Motion and   
  Memorandum  9, at 4.)

Judge Svet and Campos attempt to deny Plaintiffs' right to 
Discovery, again, earned Svet and Campos criminal complaint
affidavits.

Plaintiffs exercise their right under the Federal Rules of 
Civil Procedure and the Constitution to conduct Discovery
WITHOUT LEAVE OF COURT!


5 US Attorney Mitchell writes,

   By their own request, Plaintiffs sought to stay a ruling on 
  the Defendant's Motion and Memorandum. Absent any ruling on 
  either the Motion and Memorandum or Plaintiffs' Response,
  Defendant Minihan, employees of NSA, and employees of 
  Sandia National Laboratory, were not obligated to respond to 
  the Requests for Admissions as provided by Fed.R.Civ.P. 36.3 
  For Plaintiffs to now assert in their "Motion for Summary 
  Judgment On Based On Evidence From Admissions" that because   
  the individuals have not responded to the Requests for 
  Admissions they are deemed admitted, flies in the face of   
  their own prayer to this Court to stay a ruling on the 
  Defendant's Motion to strike the Requests for Admissions until 
  the Supreme Court takes action.


                                 2



Plaintiffs' have REPEATEDLY asked judge Svet and Campos to
disqualify themselves from any rulings on this case because
Campos and Svet do NOT obey the Federal Rules of Civil 
Procedure.

  Replace judges Svet and Campos because these judges
  have demonstrated, IN WRITING, they do not follow the 
  Federal Rules of Civil Procedure.

Plaintiffs' pleas are directed a[t] replacement judge[s].  Not
Svet and Campos.

Therefore, Svet and Campos' failure to remove themselves does 
not stop the legal process. 

Mitchell cites NO law to support her claim that time 
constraints imposed under Fed.R.Civ.P. 36.3 are inapplicable
as a result of Svet's and Campos' failure to remove themselves.


6 US Attorney Mitchell writes,

  Defendant requests that this Court either rule upon
  Defendant's Motion and Memorandum granting the request to   
  strike the Requests for Admissions, or grant Plaintiffs' 
  request to stay this action pending the issuance of the order 
  sought by Plaintiffs in another forum. Should this Court deny 
  Defendant's Motion and Memorandum, Defendant respectfully 
  requests that the individuals to whom Requests for Admissions 
  are appropriate in this action be given the thirty days to 
  respond to said admissions as provided by the Federal Rules of 
  Civil Procedure.

REPLACEMENT JUDGES of the Court should realize the outcome
of the lawsuit has attained international interest as a result
of the

  1  bungled NSA spy sting on Iran 
  2  US government agencies NSA, NIST, and the FBI's
     attempt to control cryptography.

Mitchell's 
  
  DEFENDANT'S RESPONSE TO PLAINTIFFS' MOTION FOR 
  SUMMARY JUDGMENT BASED ON EVIDENCE FROM ADMISSIONS

was posted on Internet at jya.com, click cryptome


                                 3



  nsasuit8.htm  USA/NSA Responds to Payne/Morales Motion            
                January 16, 1998

Importance of this posting is summed-up in the Toronto Sun, 
Jan. 11, 1998

  US, Iran Need Each Other 
 
  by Eric Margolis 
 
  Iran launched a surprise charm offensive last week, 
  throwing Washington into serious confusion.  

  In a lengthy interview on CNN, Iran's new president, Mohammad   
  Khatami, skillfully analyzed the bitter relations between the   
  two nations and cautiously extended an olive branch to 
  Washington, calling for an end to their 19-year cold war. 
 
  Khatami's diplomatic ju-jitsu flummoxed the Clinton   
  administration, which was busy trying to rally international 
  support against Tehran - and to overthrow Iran's elected 
  government.  
 
  Both capitals are split over the question of relations.  

  In Washington, the military establishment and conservative   
  Republicans have inflated Iran into a bogeyman to 
  justify military budgets and keep U.S. forces in the Mideast.  
  ...

  America incited Iraq to invade Iran in 1980. They did this to 
  crush the Islamic revolution, then provided massive war aid to 
  Saddam Hussein. Half a million Iranians died.  
 
The US got caught involved in genocide.  Using high tech.
This is one subject of this lawsuit.

Albuquerque Journal Tuesday 1/13/98 carried the editorial.
  
  Khatami Move Is Profile in Courage
  Richard Reeves
  Syndicated Columnist

  LOS ANGELES -  If an American leader had done what
  Iranian President Mohammed Khatami did last Wednesday,
  it would have been hailed as a profile in courage. ...

  Miscalculation!  We armed and pampered Saddam Hussein in
  the hope that Iraq would destroy Iran.  Now that's policy and
  behavior to think about. Here is something to think about: If
  Presidents Eisenhower and Kennedy had pursued any kind of
  sensible policy toward Cuba and Fidel Castro - opposed to


                                 4



  the policy of trying to assassinate him - there never would 
  have been a Cuban missile crisis.

    I think Iranians have financed and encouraged terrorism
  against the interests of the United States and Israel.  I   
  would not be surprised at all if something like proof emerges 
  soon, perhaps anonymously, from the CIA and other government 
  agencies, where many officials have built their careers on 
  sanctioning and isolating Iran, to try to straighten the 
  backbones of the president and people of the United States.

    If they succeed, America fails.  What would be more 
  effective in closing down Iranian terrorism?  More hostility, 
  sanctions and charges?  Or beginning the process toward more 
  normal relations with a country positioned and born to be   
  great? ...

Clearly genocide fits into [missing text]

Now that's policy and behavior to think about.

The wired world is watching what this Court, hopefully
minus judges Svet and Campos, will do.

What is there to be?  A series of possibly unfortunate
events?  

Or does this Court order release the lawfully requested 
documents to help settle this American tragedy?


WHEREFORE.

7 Have replacement judges of this Court DENY Mitchell's

  Plaintiffs requested a stay. Absent a ruling from
  this Court denying their request, they cannot proceed to 
  assert that the Requests for Admissions are deemed admitted. 
  Accordingly, Plaintiffs' "Motion For Summary Judgment On Based 
  On Evidence From Admissions" must be denied.

for reason that Mitchell's request to subvert both the Discovery
processes and its time limits have no basis in law.  And appears 
to plead to judges who do not obey the Federal Rules of Civil
Procedure.

[No 8]

9  IMMEDIATELY ORDER Defendant to release the requested 
documents in the interest of national safety so that this 


                                 5



matter can be settled. 

Aggrieved victims of  US genocide are reading these pleadings.

                    Respectfully submitted, 
 
                    [Signature] 
                    _________________________ 
                    William H. Payne             	   	     
                    13015 Calle de Sandias NE          	     
                    Albuquerque, NM 87111              	     
 
                    [Signature]
                    _________________________				 
                    Arthur R. Morales                            
                    1024 Los Arboles NW                         
                    Albuquerque, NM 87107                        
 
                    Pro se litigants 
 
 
CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE 
 
I HEREBY CERTIFY that a copy of the foregoing memorandum
was mailed to Lieutenant General Kenneth A. Minihan, USAF, 
Director,  National Security Agency, National Security Agency, 
9800 Savage Road, Fort George G. Meade, MD 20755-6000 
and hand delivered to  John J. Kelly, US Attorney, 525 Silver 
SW, ABQ, NM 87102 this  Tuesday January 20, 1997. 


                    [Arthur R. Morales signature]





                                  6


[End]






Title: Cylink Corporation





                               

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: lutz@taranis.iks-jena.de (Lutz Donnerhacke)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 04:08:28 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: A fatal flaw in PGP 6.0
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



* Anonymous wrote:
>>FATAL ERROR
>>
>>Unable to find key "ghost@nsa.gov"
>>Please obtain a new key from Network associates.

>Anyone like to confirm this?

No the key requested is 'snoop@microsoft.com'.

But the ROT13 encoding is true even for PGP5. If you move or rename the
randseed.bin to an other location (i.E. to install pgp2.6.3(i)n and pgp5
simultanusly) the file will be modified, but all encrypted messages have the
same session key.

On the other hand pgp5 does not confirm the OpenPGP draft. A converter can
be found at ftp://ftp.iks-jena.de/pub/mitarb/lutz/crypt/software/pgp/OpenPGP/





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 13:26:42 +0800
To: Simon Fraser 
Subject: Re: Spammers
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980203203912.007c0e10@otc.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 02:37 PM 2/3/98 +0000, Simon Fraser wrote:
>
>On Tue, 3 Feb 1998, Chip Mefford wrote:
>
>> Wouldn't it be nice to hold uu.net culpable for all their spamming ways.
They
>> want to own the internet, let them hang for it.
>
>http://www.us.uu.net/support/usepolicy/
>It would be nice to differentiate between the spammers themselves and the
>ISP they use. 
>
>
>Simon.

Yes. Otherwise an ISP loses common-carrier status and is thus
responsible for the content of its traffic.

Blame the junk-faxers, not the telcos.  



David Honig 			honig@alum.mit.edu
---------------------------------------------------
Is Monica Lewinsky endorsing kneepads for Nike yet?






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 13:36:05 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: potus manipulation for fun and profit
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980203211801.007ef3c0@otc.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Given the Head of State's alleged affinitity for 
"covert personal operations", consider the potential
for manipulating him by any three-letter-agency skilled
in surveillance.  E.g., getting the Clinton
administration behind Clipper, supporting our man Freeh, etc.

There are advantages to having a POTUS who's a security
risk, after all :-<   


-Gedanken memo, no such agency.

 




David Honig 			honig@alum.mit.edu
---------------------------------------------------
Is Monica Lewinsky endorsing kneepads for Nike yet?






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 04:35:08 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: A fatal flaw in PGP 6.0
Message-ID: <199802032021.VAA18446@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



This was posted anonymously to alt.security.pgp last night

>Subject: PGP 6.0 alpha3
>Date: 3 Feb 1998 00:15:56 +0100
>
>Anyone else having problems with the alpha of PGP 6.0?  When I try to
encrypt e-mail I get an error:
>
>FATAL ERROR
>
>Unable to find key "ghost@nsa.gov"
>Please obtain a new key from Network associates.
>
>
>Other than that it's pretty slick!  I'm not sure I'd have the default
cypher as ROT-13 though!  I changed mine to RC-2 255-bit.
>
>Anyone else?

Anyone like to confirm this?





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ryan Anderson 
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 10:57:17 +0800
To: Tim May 
Subject: Re: the best justice money can buy --Lessig suspended
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Tue, 3 Feb 1998, Tim May wrote:

> 
> (I've left out the PowerPC, as it appears now to be limited solely to the
> Macintosh market...even IBM and Motorola appear to have acknowledged its
> failure.)

Unless I've missed some absolutely major announcement, IBM is betting on
the PowerPC in all their servers.  Well, at least in their RS/6000 and
AS/400, which is pretty much their entire high-end market.

The PowerPC never had a serious entry into the desktop market anywhere but
the Macintosh to my knowledge.


Ryan Anderson - Alpha Geek
PGP fp: 7E 8E C6 54 96 AC D9 57  E4 F8 AE 9C 10 7E 78 C9
print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<>
)]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 13:02:28 +0800
To: Eric Cordian 
Subject: Re: The War on Some Debts
In-Reply-To: <199802031640.KAA18766@wire.insync.net>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Tue, 3 Feb 1998, Eric Cordian wrote:

> In a further blatant erosion of Constitutional rights, the California
> Supreme Court has ruled that a person owing child support who fails to
> seek or accept work may be jailed and fined for contempt of court, and
> that this does not violate any Constitutional bans on involuntary
> servitude or imprisonment for debt. 
>  
> This reverses nearly a century of contrary rulings.  Look for this
> "improved" interpretation to be expanded to other kinds of debts and
> judgments as well, as soon as massive public acceptance of it for the
> carefully picked child support issue is engineered. 

Expected targets:

-- Student loans  (There are already a number of nasty collection methods
made legal to "crack down" on those who are behind in their payments.)

-- State and local taxes 

-- Garnishments of wages

> The credit card companies are no doubt carefully analyzing this decision
> as we speak. 

As well as anyone else in the collections business.

alan@ctrl-alt-del.com | Note to AOL users: for a quick shortcut to reply
Alan Olsen            | to my mail, just hit the ctrl, alt and del keys.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Brian B. Riley" 
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 11:27:52 +0800
To: "cypherpunks" 
Subject: Re: the best justice money can buy --Lessig suspended
Message-ID: <199802040320.WAA19065@mx01.together.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On 2/3/98 9:45 PM, Ryan Anderson (ryan@michonline.com)  passed this 
wisdom:

>On Tue, 3 Feb 1998, Tim May wrote:
>
>> 
>> (I've left out the PowerPC, as it appears now to be limited solely
>> to the Macintosh market...even IBM and Motorola appear to have
>> acknowledged its failure.)
>
>Unless I've missed some absolutely major announcement, IBM is 
>betting on the PowerPC in all their servers. Well, at least in 
>their RS/6000 and AS/400, which is pretty much their entire 
>high-end market.
>
>The PowerPC never had a serious entry into the desktop market 
>anywhere but the Macintosh to my 
>knowledge.

 ... and while Intel is not so quietly making noises about the soon to be 
available 333MHz Pentium IIs, Motorola quietly announced 400/433 MHz PPC 
chips two weeks earlier.


Brian B. Riley --> http://members.macconnect.com/~brianbr
  For PGP Keys  

  "Fate favors the prepared mind." (from "Under Siege 3")






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 11:30:44 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Whoa: British SmartCard rollout
Message-ID: <199802040323.WAA16673@panix2.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



   >   From: bill payne 
   >   To: webmaster@cylink.com
   >   CC: federico pena <" Federico.F.Pena"@hq.doe.gov>, jy@jya.com,
   >           john gilmore , j orlin grabbe ,
   >           cypherpunks@toad.com
   >   Subject: Jim Omura

   >   cn010598.txt
       Electronic Surveillance News                      January 5, 1998

2 January 1998, Newsbytes:

 British Govt Announces Smart Card Plans for UK Citizens 

 London, England: Amid the quiet of the Christmas and New Year break, the British 
 government revealed plans for a "citizen's smart card" that will streamline the 
 interfacing of British people with their government. 

 In plain English, that translates to a smart card that can be used to allow people to
 pay all of their taxes, including income tax, national insurance, and local taxes, as
 well as apply for passports, state benefits, and other forms of government welfare.

 The idea behind the smart card, according to Peter Kilfoyle, the British public
 services minister, is that people will be able to use the card to identify themselves
 to the various government computers, all of which will be interlinked with each
 other. 

 Kilfoyle claims that there are "huge potential savings" to be had from the
 introduction of the smart card, although he revealed that possessing a card will be
 voluntary. When questioned further on this, he admitted, however, that people
 could find it difficult to operate in the future without such a card. 

Initially, the citizen's smart card will rely on traditional PIN protection systems to
 allow a person to ID themselves alongside the card to the government computer
 systems. In the longer term, and certainly within the next five years, the plan is to
 allow an individual to use a fingerprint or similar biometric system for positive
 identification. 

----

Fingerprinting everyone on the planet: those of you in CA and a handful
of other states have already been fingerprinted "so you can drive".

Police will eventually be able to stop anyone and demand to check
their fingerprints via cheap small portable scanners.

EFF/EPIC etc need to specifically target these biometric systems
as being way over the top.

Totally unnecessary.
---guy

   How did you CA cypherpunks feel about being fingerprinted?





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 13:29:11 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: RSA? ElGamal?
Message-ID: <50c47d8978815f7c5bf17e92e5e71bcc@anon.efga.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Is ElGamal secure than RSA ?







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: pgut001@cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 20:56:30 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: An update on MS private key (in)security issues
Message-ID: <88650932615058@cs26.cs.auckland.ac.nz>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



A fortnight ago I posted a message exposing a number of weaknesses in the way
various Microsoft security products handle users private keys.  A few days
before I was due to vanish for a security conference (where it was very
difficult to contact me), the article started getting a bit of attention.  This
is a general response which clarifies several issues relating to the original
message.

First, Russ Cooper (moderator of the NT Bugtraq mailing list) made some wildly
inaccurate claims about the article.  I've had a bit of feedback which
indicated that it wasn't even worth dignifying this stuff with a response but
I've written one anyway, at least for the original NT Bugtraq messages he
posted (the stuff he put on a web page is just more of the same).  You can find
it at http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/breakms2.txt (even if you
don't want to plough through the whole thing, you might want to read the last
two paragraphs for a giggle).

After this, Microsofts spin doctors leaped into action and posted a response to
the article.  I've replied to this one in a bit more detail, since it raises
several important issues.

Comments on Microsofts Response
-------------------------------

>Microsoft's Response to Recent Questions on the Recovery of Private Keys from
>various Microsoft Products

>[...]

>With the exception of the details about a possible PKCS-12 attack, all the
>issues raised in the recent discussions are specifically aimed at Microsoft's
>base CSPs, not at CryptoAPI.  The base CSPs are the royalty-free,
>software-based CSPs provided with Windows NT 4.0, Windows 95, and Internet
>Explorer. These attacks do not apply in general to other CryptoAPI CSPs and do
>not indicate any fundamental concerns with the security of the CryptoAPI
>architecture or applications built upon it.

This statement is mere obfuscation.  As Microsoft have said, every single
(recent) copy of Windows NT, Windows'95, and MSIE (and, presumably, other
products like IIS and Outlook, which rely on them) ship with these CSP's,
therefore every recent system comes with this security hole installed by
default.

In addition, the CryptExportKey() function is a standard CryptAPI function,
which is described by Microsoft with the text "The CryptExportKey function is
used to export cryptographic keys out of a cryptographic service provider in a
secure manner" (obviously some new use of the term "secure" with which I wasn't
previously familiar).  There's nothing in there that says "Only the Microsoft
CSP's support this" (some may not support it, but by Microsofts own admission
the default used on any recent system does indeed exhibit this flaw).

>Microsoft products do not "store" private key material using PKCS-12, contrary
>to recent descriptions on the Internet.

I was unfortunately somewhat unclear in my article, I've fixed up the online
version at http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/breakms.txt.  To
summarise, if you want to get at an exported key stored on disk, you can use
the pre-4.0 key file/PKCS #12 key file flaws.  If you want to get at the
current users key, you can use the CryptExportKey() flaw.

>The example of breaking a PKCS-12 data blob, which was given in discussion on
>the Internet, is not an attack on the "weak" cryptography of PKCS-12. Rather,
>it is simply a dictionary attack (long known and well understood in
>cryptography),

This statement is accurate.  As Microsoft have said, dictionary attacks have
been known to the computer industry for a long, long time (several decades).
For example the Unix password encryption uses 25 iterations of DES to protect
users passwords from dictionary attacks (this is rather inadequate now, but was
appropriate more than two decades ago when it was introduced).

If this is a well-known flaw which the entire industry has known about for
decades, why are Microsoft's very latest "security" products so extremely
vulnerable to it?  As I mentioned in my writeup, I published an attack on the
exact format used in older MS products more than 1 1/2 years ago, but Microsoft
made no attempt to fix this problem at the time.  It wasn't until I published
the current writeup that they finally addressed it.

>One statement by the original poster argues that Microsoft managed to design a
>security format that actually makes it easier to break into the protected
>data. As stated above, a number of well respected companies were involved
>extensively in the design and review of PKCS-12 before it became a standard.

The problem is that Microsoft ignored the other companies recommendations for
increasing security.  I'll refer people back to the original writeup for
mention of the various security features which were added to PKCS #12 and
subsequently ignored by Microsoft.  PKCS #12 is just a basic modification of
PFX, which was a purely Microsoft invention, and Microsofts implementation of
PKCS #12 does indeed make it very easy to perform the attack I described (you'd
have to read my writeup for the full technical details in which I describe each
individual flaw which, as each is exploited in turn, make it progressively
easier and easier to recover a users private key).

In addition (as I mentioned in my original message), Microsoft use RC2/40 to
encrypt the private keys, which means that no matter how good a password you
choose, the default PKCS #12 format private key produced by MSIE can be
recovered in a few days with fairly modest computing power.  There already
exists a Windows screen saver which will recover RC2/40 keys for S/MIME
messages, and the prize of an RSA private key is a much higher motivating
factor than the "Hello, how are you?" typically found in an S/MIME message. As
Microsoft point out, Netscape can indeed handle RC2/40-encrypted files, however
they usually use triple DES and not RC2/40 (they encrypt the private key
components - the really valuable part of the PKCS #12 payload - with triple DES
and the other odds and ends with RC2/40).  Since Netscape also iterate the
password and MAC processing, they aren't vulnerable to the attacks which the
Microsoft software is vulnerable to, even though both are based on the same
PKCS #12 standard.

>Exploiting Internet Explorer
>
>One of the fundamental requirements to perform any possible cryptographic
>attack discussed in the recent postings is the assumption that a malicious
>entity could somehow access to data on a user's computer system, without the
>permission or knowledge of the user.  This is a large leap of faith.
>
>Users that are using Public Key Certificates today are generally sophisticated
>and savvy users,

Bwahahahahaha!

Sorry, I guess I should explain that in more precise terms.  Now I'm not trying
to claim that the average Win95 user isn't as sophisticated and savvy as
Microsoft seem to think, or that relying entirely on the sophistication of the
average Win95 user for security is a dangerous move.  However these statements
do seem to completely ignore the reality of the situation.  Let me go into the
background of the weaknesses a bit further.

When I tested the weaknesses, I asked some "guinea pig" users to send me their
exported keys, with the promise that I'd destroy the keys and not keep any
record of where the keys came from and so on.  Because of this I can't give
exact figures, however here are a few data points:

- More than half the keys (I can't remember the exact figure) were in the
  older, pre-4.x format.  This indicates that the majority of users (or at
  least of the crypto-using guinea pigs) are still running old versions of MSIE
  which contain a number of widely-publicised problems, including precisely the
  weaknesses required to run arbitrary code on the machine or read files off
  the machine.  One of the respondents commented that the key was "the key I
  use with Outlook", I'm not sure what that says about the origins of the key.
  Another key was one used with IIS for a web site which runs an online
  commerce service that processes credit-card based orders.  This must have
  been an older version of IIS since the key was in the pre-4.x format.

- When I asked two of the people why they were still using an old version, the
  responses were "It came installed with the machine when we bought it" and "It
  does what I want, so I haven't upgraded".  I expect most users of the older
  version would have a similar reason for using it.

  In a company of 20 people (some of whom participated in this test), only two
  were running 4.x.  These people are all highly competent software developers
  (presumably this includes them in the group of "sophisticated and savvy
  users" which MS were referring to), however none of the remaining 18 wanted
  to risk installing MSIE 4 because of the extent with which it messed with
  their system, possibly jeopardising their development work.  Therefore most
  of these "sophisticated and savvy users" were still running old, insecure
  versions of MSIE, and weren't going to upgrade any time soon.

- For the two remaining 4.x users in the company, both are still using
  straight, unpatched 4.0 because they considered it painful enough to download
  all of 4.0 and they didn't want to bother with an upgrade just yet.  This
  makes them vulnerable to the bug pointed out in the l0pht advisory.

- When I informed one of the guinea pigs of the recovered password, his
  response was "Now I'll have to change my login password" (the others
  generally restricted themselves to some variation of "Oops").  This comment
  confirms that users do indeed sometimes use their login password to protect
  their private keys, so that a successful attack recovers not only their
  private keys but their login password as well.

- One respondent commented that most of the code they downloaded from the net
  was unsigned, but they ran it anyway.  This is probably typical of the
  average user.

Although I've only been back for two days, I haven't yet managed to find anyone
who has applied all the latest patches and kludges to their system which makes
them immune to these problems.  This includes at least one person who has a
code signing key which could be used to sign malicious ActiveX controls.
Therefore all of the guinea pigs could in theory have their private keys
stolen.

>Attacks against Authenticode signing keys
>
>[...]
>
>However, it is extremely unlikely anyone could be successful with a simplistic
>strategy for stealing Authenticode signing keys and then using them.

See my comments about about this.  I could, right now, obtain at least one
Authenticode signing key with which I could create a malicious ActiveX control.
I'm sure that if I were serious about this I could obtain a number of others.

>Second, anyone signing code using Authenticode technology is extremely
>unlikely to leave their key material sitting on an end user machine routinely
>used for browsing the Internet.

I see no basis for this claim.  Every developer I know uses the same machine
for both code development and web browsing (in fact a number of users keep a
copy of MSIE or Netscape permantly running on their machine so that they'll
have something to do between compiles).  Microsoft's statement seems to imply
that users will be running two machines, one dedicated entirely to web browsing
and the other to code signing.  I find this extremely unlikely.

>Attacks on Encrypted Key material
>
>There is some confusion over the algorithms and methods that Microsoft uses to
>provide protection of encrypted key material in Internet Explorer when using
>the standard Microsoft base CSPs. There were changes between Internet Explorer
>3.0x and Internet Explorer 4.x specifically to address any possible concern.

And the astounding thing was that, despite a complete rewrite of the code, the
newer version offers no extra security at all, as my article points out.  Both
are equally weak, you just need to attack them in slightly different ways.

>Key export attacks
>
>The original Internet posting raises concern about the CryptoAPI interface
>CryptExportKey().  This function is fully documented and does indeed export
>private key material in an encrypted format.

The statement from Microsoft omits one important point here.  Myself and
another security researcher have been trying to tell Microsoft for more than
four months (probably a lot longer, I didn't log the earlier mail) that this is
a very serious security flaw.  In all cases Microsoft's response was some
variation of "We don't see this as a flaw".  It wasn't until my warning was
published that they finally addressed the problem, and even in this case (the
program to set the CRYPT_USER_PROTECTED flag) it's only a quick hack to plaster
over the cracks and allow them to declare the problem fixed.  In fact it
doesn't fix the problem at all.  I'll post details in a fortnight or so when
I've had time to test things, please don't ask me about this until then.

>The presence of the CryptExportKey() function is to support functionality such
>as migrating key material between machines for a user or creating a backup
>copy of a key.  It should be noted however, that many CSPs, including most
>hardware based CSPs, do not allow exportable private keys and will return and
>error in response to a CryptExportKey() request.

However the CSP's installed by default on every recent system do allow the
export.  The fact that there may exist, somewhere, an implementation which
doesn't exhibit this flaw really doesn't help the majority of users.

>The posting also asserts that an ActiveX control could be downloaded from a
>web page, simply ask for the current users key, ship the key off for
>collection by an unscrupulous person, and then delete itself without a trace.
>
>If users run unsigned code, or code from an unknown origin, a number of
>unpleasant things can happen.  This could indeed occur if the key as been
>marked exportable and the CRYPT_USER_PROTECTED flag is not set.

Which was, until my warning, the automatic default action for Verisign, and is
still the automatic default for many other CA's.  This means that keys
generated right up until a few days ago (and in some cases keys being generated
right now) have, by default, no protection whatsoever.  In addition I've just
been sent mail to say that CRYPT_USER_PROTECTED still isn't the default with
Verisign, you have to click a box asking for extra security or you get the
usual default of no protection.

To add to the confusion, a lot of documentation (including the Microsoft
Developer Network (MSDN) online documentation on Microsofts web site) describes
the CRYPT_USER_PROTECTED flag with "The Microsoft RSA Base Provider ignores
this flag", which can cause programmers to leave it out when it is *essential*
it is always included.  Incidentally, MSDN also claims that Microsoft are
"supporting" PFX, which is in direct contrast with the claims in their press
release.

>There was also discussion of 16 dialog boxes appearing to the user for their
>password if the CRYPT_USER_PROTECTED flag is set. Certainly asking the user
>too many times would be better than too few times, however in our tests, under
>extreme (and uncommon cases), a user might be asked for their password at most
>four times when a key is used with the Microsoft base CSPs. Perhaps the claim
>came from an early beta release.

The 16 dialog boxes problem was present in 4.0, and it's been confirmed as
still being present in 4.01.  This was apparently verified on Microsoft's own
CryptoAPI mailing list (the claimed "beta" version was actually MSIE 4.0
final).

>Microsoft is constantly working to improve the security of our products.

Myself and another person had been trying to convince Microsoft for more than
four months that things like CryptExportKey() are a major security hole.  Their
response each time has been some variation of "We don't see this as a problem".
It simply wasn't possible to get them to acknowledge these flaws, therefore my
posting of the details wasn't "irresponsible" (as some have claimed) but a
necessity in order to get them fixed.  When I pointed out several months ago
that Microsoft were using, in their pre-4.x products, an exported key format
which was identical to the one which I broke more than 1 1/2 years ago, their
response was "What's the problem with this?".  I would have liked to have
included URL's for the CryptoAPI mailing list archives to prove that Microsoft
were warned of these problems some time ago, but the CryptoAPI archive seems to
be temporarily offline.

Risks of a Private Key Compromise
---------------------------------

One or two respondents have tried to play down the seriousness of a private key
compromise, saying that I exaggerated the dangers in my original message.  What
I wanted to point out was how extremely valuable a users private key is, and
how disappointingly little concern Microsoft seem to have for protecting this
valuable resource.  For example Garfinkel and Spaffords "Web Security and
Commerce" (O'Reilly, 1997) contains the warning:

  "Today's PC's are no better at storing private keys once they have been
  generated.  Even though both Navigator and Internet Explorer can store keys
  encrypted, they have to be decrypted to be used.  All an attacker has to do
  is write a program that manages to get itself run on the users computer (for
  example by using [...] Microsoft's ActiveX technology), waits for the key to
  be decrypted, and then sends the key out over the network" (p.120).

Including a function like CryptExportKey() (which hands over a users private
key) makes this very attack possible.  The potential damage which can be caused
with a misappropriated private key is enormous.  Consider the relative risks in
the compromise of a logon password and a private key.  With a logon password,
the worst an attacker can do (apart from stealing possibly valuable data) is to
trash the victims hard drive, which involves reinstalling the operating system
(an action which many users are intimately familiar with).  In contrast an
attacker who obtains a private key can potentially drain the victims credit
card, clean out their bank account (if the victim uses one of the emerging
online banking services), sign documents in their name, and so on.

The implications of that last point can be quite serious.  Take for example the
Utah digital signature act, which was used as a model by a number of other
states who implemented or are implementing digital signature legislation.
Under the Utah act, digitally signed documents are given the same evidentiary
weight as notarised documents, and someone trying to overcome this has to
provide "clear and convincing evidence" that the document is fraudulent, which
is difficult since it bears a valid signature from the users key (this fact has
been used in the past to criticise digital signature laws based on this act).
In addition, under the Utah act and derived acts, anyone who loses their
private key bears unlimited liability for the loss (in contrast, consumer
liability for credit card loss is limited to $50).  This leads to the spectre
of a malicious attacker who has the ability to issue notarised documents in
your name for which you carry unlimited liability.  This is a lot more
important than someone reformatting your hard drive, or stealing last months
sales figures.

Peter.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Shostack 
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 15:14:21 +0800
To: sorrin@syndata.com (steve)
Subject: Re: BSAFE 4.0 to force GAK?!
In-Reply-To: <34D75774.6036@syndata.com>
Message-ID: <199802040709.CAA03985@homeport.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



One would hope that this simply drives the market towords using
DSA/DH from toolkits like those available with support from Baltimore,
PGP, CryptoMathic, etc.  (I maintain a list of free and commercial
crypto libraries at www.homeport.org/~adam/crypto.  The list is
oriented at hackers and cypherpunks, and so gives far more  detail on
the free libraries.)

Theres no reason to be using BSAFE if it enforces Uncle Sam's
ludicrous political requirements.  Use a library from the free world.
Use algorithms that are not encumbered.  Theres no longer any reason
not to. 

Adam


steve wrote:
| FYI
| 
| Jan. 26's Network World has an article on page 33 titled "RSA blasts
| (but also supports) Government encryption policy".
| 
| The paragraph of note is the fourth paragraph which reads:"The next
| version of the RSA encryption toolkit, BSAFE 4.0, will force those
| building products with anthing over 56 bit strength encryption to use a
| key-recovery center for exportable products...."
| 
| I haven't been able to confirm this with other sources yet but the
| glaring question is how will this be enforced and how will it affect
| domestic products that wish to use BSAFE 4.0 for their crypto. Further
| what ramifications does this hold for their S/Mail toolkit for S/MIME?
| and I haven't seen this discussed on the list yet.
| Steve O
| -- 
| A picture tells a thousand words.
| 		Stego
| 
| 
|      -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
|      Version: 3.1
|      GCS/IT/S d--() s+: a-- C++++(++)$ ULS+++@ P++@ L+(++)$ E- W+(+++)$
|      N++$ !o K-? w++(+++)$ !O+>++ !M !V PS+(+++)@ PE(++)@ Y++$ PGP@ t+@
|      5++@ X++>$ R+++>$ tv+@ b+@ DI+++>$ D+++@>$ G@ e++@>++++ h r* y+ 
|      ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
| 


-- 
"It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once."
					               -Hume






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Attila T. Hun" 
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 16:34:57 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net>
Subject: Re: The Continued Attack on Cash (Was: "The Right of  Anonymity"...)
In-Reply-To: <199802040735.CAA04108@homeport.org>
Message-ID: <19980204.080636.attila@hun.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Black Unicorn wrote:
> At 06:07 PM 2/2/98 +0000, Attila T. Hun wrote:
> >    I did-- tried to lay $14K out for a Mercedes (25 years ago).
> >    they wouldnt take it.  so I went and picked up two $7K
> >    cashiers from two different banks.  same thing with a pair
> >    of Lycoming IO540 aircraft engines:  2 8s and a 9 --stay
> >    under the $10K transaction.
> 
> Careful.  This may well be illegal now.  
> Structuring transactions to avoid
> reporting requirements is a felony.
>   
    statute of limitations has run. at the time, I did not
    give it much thought except the aggravation of filing the
    paperwork for what was a common business transaction. It
    was actually easier to get cash in las vegas than a cashiers
    check as the banks were so pissy.  the casinos were far 
    better than the banks once you established out of town
    credit with them --and they were 24 hours a day, 7 days a 
    week. I wanted those aircraft engines bad --the vendor in
    Chicago had the only two available for close to six months
    and he had agreed to sell them to Canada but was waiting
    on the letter of credit --the casinos wired the money direct 
    which turned the deal --the engines were on a return flight 
    the next morning --a Saturday. transferring money from a
    casino is not the best place in the world for obvious 
    reasons, despite its expediency.

    structuring transactions is certainly illegal now, but I 
    have not seen that kind of money since retiring after
    having had a run of bad luck with my health a few years 
    back (and lost my FAA medical cert).

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Version: 2.6.3i
Charset: latin1
Comment: No safety this side of the grave. Never was; never will be

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knFYLLWGSYngkRH6k4x7/zXA0SH7ghZ5b33gKlX98oWx7NKyOXLZuw==
=5RqA
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: lutz@belenus.iks-jena.de (Lutz Donnerhacke)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 17:43:52 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Spammers
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



* Bill Stewart wrote:
>If you want to cut way down on spam, there's Paul Vixie's
>Realtime BlackHole List service at maps.vix.com.  It uses DNS as a 
>convenient query/response server and some short sendmail scripts
>to block mail from any site known to have an open smtp relay.

I prefer teergrubing. It does increase the realtime costs of spamming. A lot
of professional spammers are teergrube aware and do not spam to such hosts.
Unsecure relays die by a lack of ressources after catched by some
teergrubes, so the admin has to do something to deal with the problem.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: lutz@belenus.iks-jena.de (Lutz Donnerhacke)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 17:44:25 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: RSA? ElGamal?
In-Reply-To: <50c47d8978815f7c5bf17e92e5e71bcc@anon.efga.org>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



* Anonymous wrote:
>Is ElGamal secure than RSA ?

It's different. That's all.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 12:38:51 +0800
To: pgut001@cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann)
Subject: Re: An update on MS private key (in)security issues
In-Reply-To: <88650932615058@cs26.cs.auckland.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <199802031440.JAA09009@users.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In <88650932615058@cs26.cs.auckland.ac.nz>, on 02/04/98 
   at 01:35 AM, pgut001@cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann) said:

>The implications of that last point can be quite serious.  Take for
>example the Utah digital signature act, which was used as a model by a
>number of other states who implemented or are implementing digital
>signature legislation. Under the Utah act, digitally signed documents are
>given the same evidentiary weight as notarised documents, and someone
>trying to overcome this has to provide "clear and convincing evidence"
>that the document is fraudulent, which is difficult since it bears a
>valid signature from the users key (this fact has been used in the past
>to criticise digital signature laws based on this act). In addition,
>under the Utah act and derived acts, anyone who loses their private key
>bears unlimited liability for the loss (in contrast, consumer liability
>for credit card loss is limited to $50).  This leads to the spectre of a
>malicious attacker who has the ability to issue notarised documents in
>your name for which you carry unlimited liability.  This is a lot more
>important than someone reformatting your hard drive, or stealing last
>months sales figures.

I have raised concerns in the past over the rush to pass Digital Signature
Laws in various states. These laws have not been well though out nor did
they stand the rigors of peer-review of the crypto community before they
were passed into law. IIRC one of the states considered *encryption* alone
to be a *legal* signature!!!

I will not be using digital signatures for anything other than
authentication of messages. For legal documents I will stick to the old
fashion pen and paper with witnesses and a notary.

Just as a side note: Micro$loth is unfit to secure an outhouse let alone
somthing as important as network and data security (are these fools still
claiming C2 for NT?). I have never seen such overwhelming incompetence and
complete arrogance than what is centered in Redmond (IBM may be arrogant
but at least they are technically competent). 

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html                        
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: Windows?  WINDOWS?!?  Hahahahahehehehehohohoho...

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GdKH6QmvN7k=
=NV74
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "James F. Marshall" 
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 11:53:32 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks Unedited List" 
Subject: Changing to Moderated Cypherpunks -- How?
Message-ID: <199802050343.DAA46984@out5.ibm.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Too much noise in the unedited list.

How does one change to the moderated list?

- -- James F. Marshall, Esq., Pasadena, California
   Subject "JFM Public Key" for PGP Public Key

- -- OS/2 is to Windows as Stradivarius is to Yamaha

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Version: 2.6.2

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WiAlynovwU9dyvc/gygz9N6aeJO/ghqiQl2/NqCSsKn5H1nTr1MHbK2iYJwt6AXh
ZhMSfz5p1QzVWwm9lIFETipPayuJ+WzCkaakMZP3PPZXG8XUT/48NZG5hJgjfIM7
vqzMkCcHr+A=
=2N5t
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Rabid Wombat 
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 13:27:04 +0800
To: Tim May 
Subject: Re: Airline ticket information -- help
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Or you could just call up the airline and pretend you are Tim May, and 
they will tell you.  ;)

On Mon, 2 Feb 1998, Tim May wrote:

> At 9:55 AM -0800 2/2/98, Declan McCullagh wrote:
> >I'm trying to find out what airline flight someone is taking. I have a name
> >and know the general travel plans and likely date. How can I find out the
> >airline, flight number, and seat number? This is somewhat urgent. (You have
> >my assurance that the purpose is legit.)
> >
> >If anyone has any ideas, I'd appreciate the help.
> 
> Monica Lewinski and William Ginsburg are travelling on American Airlines
> Flight 420 on Wednesday, 4 February, departing Dulles Airport at 10:45
> a.m., EST, and arriving LAX at 3:35 p.m., PST.
> 
> Good luck reporting on them, Declan!
> 
> 
> --Tim May





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: rdew@el.nec.com (Bob De Witt)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 03:53:57 +0800
To: dlv@bwalk.dm.com
Subject: Re: RIP, Carl Gorman, Code Talker
Message-ID: <199802041932.LAA02327@yginsburg.el.nec.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Oh-Oh!

Us "newbies" slipped up.  Except, when I signed up, my entry notice said:

"To post to the whole list, send mail to

	cypherpunks@toad.com"

Soooo, maybe you want we should send it elsewhere, to the same lists you
send to, you should publish the correction, not just flame ...

Until then, we just have to do as told by the list-admin ...

On Sat Jan 31 12:20:56 1998 Dr.Dimitri Vulis wrote:
> From dlv@bwalk.dm.com Sat Jan 31 12:20:56 1998
> To: cypherpunks@toad.com
> Subject: Re: RIP, Carl Gorman, Code Talker
> From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
> Comments: All power to the ZOG!
> Date: Sat, 31 Jan 98 14:23:21 EST
> 
> Tim May  writes:
> 
> > (As Gary seems to be a newcomer, let me remind him and others that
> > "cypherpunks@toad.com" is not the place to send messages to the list.
> > Please use one of the distributed addresses.  It's been a year since the
> > list moved off of toad.com. I wish John would just start bouncing messages
> > sent to toad.com and be done with it.)
> 
> When are cocksuckers John Gilmore and Guy Polis planning to die from AIDS?
> 
> ---
> 
> Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
> Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps
>

Ciao,
Bob De Witt,
rdew@el.nec.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 03:05:05 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Fountain of youth found? [SciAm] (fwd)
Message-ID: <199802041901.NAA05823@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:
>From owner-tesla@ssz.com Wed Feb  4 13:00:02 1998
From: Jim Choate 
Message-Id: <199802041857.MAA05778@einstein.ssz.com>
Subject: Fountain of youth found? [SciAm]
To: tesla@ssz.com (Experimental Instrumentation)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 12:57:23 -0600 (CST)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23]
Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 2511      
Sender: owner-tesla@ssz.com
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: tesla@ssz.com


Note this file has been edited.

Forwarded message:

> X-within-URL: http://www.sciam.com/explorations/1998/020298telomere/

>    Telomere Image: Southwestern Medical Center
>    
>    LIFE'S CLOCK. Telomeres are repeating DNA strings (TTAGGG) that cap
>    chromosomes. Each time a mortal cell divides, its telomeres become
>    shorter. When they reach a preset length, the cell ceases to divide,
>    ages and dies.
>    
>   Scientists have found a major factor
>   that controls whether a cell dies or thrives
>   
>    It may not sound as appetizing as aquavit, but telomerase--an enzyme
>    discovered only a decade ago in a single-celled protozoan--may well be
>    the elixir of youth. This chemical acts in immortal cancer cells,
>    sperm and ovum to repair telomeres, the strands of DNA that tie up the
>    ends of chromosomes. And now it seems that activating telomerase in
>    sundry other cells grants them a longer lease on life as well.
>    
>    The finding, which was published in the January 16 issue of Science,
>    finally proves what was a highly controversial model linking telomeres
>    to cellular aging. More important, it opens up new avenues for
>    research into diseases that occur when cells grow old, including
>    macular degeneration in the eye and atherosclerosis, and those that
>    arise when cells don't age at all, such as cancer.

[text deleted]


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |       The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate,       |
   |       but the desire to edit somebody elses words.                 |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                  Sign in Ed Barsis' office         |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 02:33:23 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Rogue EFF Dir Brad Templeton
Message-ID: <199802041809.NAA09228@panix2.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



This jerk should be kicked out of EFF.


Brad had stated he wants to eliminate one-way anonymous remailers,
make two-way anonymous remailer users identify themselves as the
same person every time they use one, and:

   o require digital signature identification for all email
   o require digital signature identification for all Usenet posts


--------- previously shown -------------

Brad Templeton emailed:
*   Information Security emailed:
 
*   > Nor does your digital signature idea do anything to prevent
*   > throw-away accounts from doing major spams; you'll have to
*   > put even MORE controls on people.
*
*   Correct, no throw away accounts.  It's coming.
*
*   > The digital signature idea is an astonishingly bad idea, that
*   > only frustrated control-freaks will accept.
*
*   You are mistaken.  I surveyed a roomful of usenet admins at a
*   conference last year.  They were 95% in favor of it.
 
[I replied that those were the control-freaks I was talking about]
 
 
 
Brad Templeton emailed, formatted by guy:
 
>   As far as I am concerned, no fake addresses is one of my non-negotiable
>   requirements, because
>
>      the eventual USENET is going to have digital signature requirements.
>
>   It's the only way to stop [people from] posting under fake addresses
>   where we can't find them, and that means stopping honest users from
>   doing it too.
 
[I said false: ALL problem posters are locateable to their ISP]
 

 
    http://www.clari.net/brad/spam.html [snipped] [by Brad]
 
    Solutions...
 
    First, improve internet mail systems and protocols to
    identify mail with a fake or forged return address.
 
    There are some simple steps to do this, and
    eventually digital signature allows complete
    verification of the sender.
 
    http://polka.clari.net/usenet-format/cert.html
 
    Q: What about anonymous remailers?
 
    A: A person with an anonymous address that sends mail back will
    probably be able to get a certificate. They can post without revealing
    their name, except perhaps to the person who gives them a certificate.
    Digital signature works fine to prove the same person sent two messages
    without saying at all who that person is in the real world.
 
Forced to authenticate they are the same
person, even through the anonymous remailer.


--------- end of previously shown -------------

 
What's new is Brad has inserted his declaration that access
to the Net must require you to authenticate yourself with
a digital signature to post to Usenet in the draft text
for the new Usenet RFC, which he is heading:

Brad's draft Usenet digital signature text:

#   Systems MAY insist that an article be signed, at least the
#   body and the minimal header set, or they MAY reject the
#   article.  This policy may vary from group to group and
#   subnet to subnet.  Eventually it is expected that a site
#   SHOULD reject any article that is not signed.

Hey, fine if an individual group wants to vote it in.

But ALL OF USENET???

I asked him if he would change the wording to:

#   An individual group MAY insist that an article be signed,
#   at least the body and the minimal header set. This is
#   subject to the normal news standards of users of a group
#   deciding this issue themselves.

Dead silence.

He REFUSES TO DISCUSS the last statement:

#   Eventually it is expected that a site
#   SHOULD reject any article that is not signed.

It is a purely political statement on his part,
pushing his vision of a tightly authenticated
Net, like they have in China.

In fact, it is utterly clueless of him, especially since he
was one of the original CDA plaintiffs. [Not to mention it
is an "agreement to make an agreement"]

NONE of the other list participants has said they agree everyone
should authenticate themselves using digital signatures for all
Usenet posts, which is the language I am contesting.

Yet, he won't even discuss the ramifications.

Yep, power corrupts: he's running the show, and answers to no one.

------- begin Crypto Manifesto excerpt -------
 
*       Sandia and Coms21, currently engaged in an agreement to support the
*   People's Republic of China's driver license and national ID card
*   program, have partnered to create a fraud-proof solution for on-the-spot
*   positive identification of card bearers.
 
*   "China Tells Internet Users To Register With Police"
*   The New York Times, 2/15/1996
*
*   China ordered all users of the Internet to register with the police, as
*   part of an effort to tighten control over information.
*
*   The order came from the Ministry of Public Security.
*
*   Network users have been warned not to harm national security, or to
*   disseminate pornography.
 
Well, there's a new way to control Internet users: require them to identify
themselves, no doubt your U.S.-created National ID Card will be required for
access. That ought to stop pornography: identify each and every user.
 
#   "The Great Firewall of China", by Geremie R. Barme & Sang Ye, Wired, 6/97
#
#   Xia Hong, China InfoHighway's PR man: "The Internet has been an important
#   technical innovator, but we need to add another element, and that is
#   control. The new generation of information superhighway needs a traffic
#   control center. It needs highway patrols; USERS WILL REQUIRE DRIVER'S
#   LICENSES. THESE ARE THE BASIC REQUIREMENTS FOR ANY CONTROLLED ENVIRONMENT."

The Supreme Court's CDA ruling:

Once most people are fingerprinted, a cheap (say $50) fingerprint scanner that
attaches a timestamp and government digital signature will be sold for allowing
Internet access to "adult" locations---chat rooms, USENET, WWW sites---and it
will be mandatory. The Chief Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court said as soon
as the "Internet driver's license" is technically feasible, CDA becomes legal.
 
   "Such technology requires Internet users to enter information about
    themselves--perhaps an adult identification number or a credit card
    number--before they can access certain areas of cyberspace, 929 F. Supp.
    824, 845 (ED Pa. 1996), much like a bouncer checks a person's driver's
    license before admitting him to a nightclub."

------- end Crypto Manifesto excerpt -------


If everyone has a digital signature, CDA becomes legal.

I do wish EFF would kick him out!
---guy





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "WebWarrior3@InfoWar.Com" 
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 02:57:46 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com
Subject: Cryptography empowering human rights.
Message-ID: <34D8B729.36322685@InfoWar.Com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Looking for opinions and leads to resources about human rights and the
potential abuse of said rights with public key 'escrow' or  recovery
agents.  Please send info to:
mailto:webwarrior3@infowar.com

Thanks in advance,
Scott R. Brower
Electronic Fronteirs Florida
http://www.efflorida.org
effla@efflorida.org





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Steve Orrin" 
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 03:10:43 +0800
To: 
Subject: HUMOR: Bill Gates gets it, True CNN Story!!
Message-ID: <19980204190827281.AAA314.381@endor.syndata.domain>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



http://www.cnn.com/TECH/computing/9802/04/belgium.gates.ap/


A Picture Tells A Thousand Words.
                    STEGO





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: jfrancis@netscape.com (Joe Francis)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 06:40:15 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: implementing an export control policy on a web site
Message-ID: <34D8EB6F.3B6EA5C8@netscape.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I am seeking information on what constitutes legal conformance to U.S.
ITAR when webserving encryption software from within the U.S.

I have read pretty much everything I can find online that looked like it
might be relavent.  Apologies if this is a FAQ that I have some how
missed.

Part of my confusion stems from the different policies implemented by
different vendors on their sites, and also by how those policies have
changed over time.  For instance, at Netscape one has to provide a
tremendous amount of personal info in order to download the domestic
version of Communicator.  Phone number is required, and there appears to
be some automated sanity checking on the phone number/address supplied.
This is a sharp contrast to the Cypherpunks Home Page
(ftp://ftp.csua.berkeley.edu/pub/cypherpunks/Home.html), where a simple
request not too export and an explanation of the ITAR appears to be all
that is done.  PGP has yet a different standard, directing you to the
MIT page which eventually leads to a form (at
http://bs.mit.edu:8001/pgp-form.html) that forces you to affirm your
citizenship, agree to obry ITAR and obey the RSAREF license, and state
that you will only use PGP for noncommercial use.  It then appears to do
some minimal checking of your ip name/address (it would allow me to
download from netscape.com but not from ricochet.net).

If anyone can point me at any legal analysis of these different
approaches, or has any info to offer on the matter, I'd love to hear
about it.

thanks,
Joe Francis






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 07:41:31 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Feds Approve Bank to Certify Digital Signatures
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980204153030.0084c570@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



There was a note to Dave Farber's list that the Office of the 
Comptroller of Currency has approved Zion's First National Bank
to certify digital signatures.  Since they're in Utah, Zion's has
a certain amount of legal infrastructure in place.
The text version of the story is at 
http://www.occ.treas.gov/ftp/release/98-4.txt
and the 20-page PDF with gory details is at
http://www.occ.treas.gov/ftp/release/98-4att.pdf

They're going to offer digital signature certificates
with the usual binding of a key to a body plus papers,
and provide software to support it.  Some of their software
can be used for encryption, and unfortunately they're
going to offer key escrow, though as a separate business
service, with keys encrypted by the key's corporate owner
as well as by the bank for protection, but it's not
going to be a mandatory service, and they have no intention
of offering escrow for signature keys, only encryption keys.
Their documentation does talk a good bit about crypto technology,
in layman's terms, and about risk management and Y2000 compliance,
and also in great detail about how things like this are
standard banking functions applied in a digital environment
(to convince the OCC to let them offer it, since they're a bank
and aren't supposed to offer non-bank-related services).

There's also a story in Network World at
http://www.nwfusion.com/news/0202rsa.html
about Verisign and Entrust CAs plans for IPOs.
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 06:28:27 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: The Continued Attack on Cash (Was: "The Right of Anonymity"...) (fwd)
Message-ID: <199802042228.QAA06832@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: "Attila T. Hun" 
> Date: Wed, 04 Feb 98 22:14:36 +0000
> Subject: Re: The Continued Attack on Cash (Was: "The Right of Anonymity"...)

> >You don't know Texas or Texans very well...
> 
>     well, I do, real well  --but you dont know rural Utahns.

Actualy I do, know quite a few people in Utah; both in and out of the Mormon
Church and in and outside the handfull of cities.


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |       The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate,       |
   |       but the desire to edit somebody elses words.                 |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                  Sign in Ed Barsis' office         |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 06:31:14 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: The Continued Attack on Cash (Was: "The Right of (fwd)
Message-ID: <199802042230.QAA06881@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 17:07:19 -0500
> From: Robert Hettinga 
> Subject: Re: The Continued Attack on Cash (Was: "The Right of 
>  Anonymity"...)

> >     1.  those who buy for price alone are this man's lawful prey.
> 
> Those who *don't* buy for price alone are usually somebody's lunch sooner
> or later.

There is *always* somebody higher up the foodchain. No matter how big or
tough sooner or later you end up somebodies lunch. Price is irrelevant
except in regards the time frame.


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |       The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate,       |
   |       but the desire to edit somebody elses words.                 |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                  Sign in Ed Barsis' office         |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 06:40:56 +0800
To: users@ssz.com (SSZ User Mail List)
Subject: IBM cpu breaks 1GHz barrier [CNN]
Message-ID: <199802042241.QAA06983@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

>    IBM breaks 1,000 MHz
>    
>    More related sites... NEW YORK (CNNfn) - Engineers at an International
>    Business Machines Corp. research facility in Austin, Texas, Wednesday
>    demonstrated the world's first computer chip to break the 1,000 MHz
>    barrier.
>    [INLINE] The chip operates at 1 billion cycles per second. The fastest
>    commercial microprocessors today operate at around 300 MHz. However,
>    computer users won't be able to run out and buy a PC containing the
>    chip anytime soon. IBM isn't expected to make it available
>    commercially for at least two years.
>    [INLINE] The news comes just days after rival Digital Equipment
>    introduced a new version of its Alpha chip that it said would break
>    the 1,000 MHz barrier. Digital Equipment, which hasn't yet hit that
>    mark, also said it would take at least two years for the chip to be
>    available.
>    [INLINE] IBM will issue a research paper detailing the chip, along
>    with two related microprocessor papers, at the International Solid
>    State Circuit Conference in San Francisco Friday.


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |       The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate,       |
   |       but the desire to edit somebody elses words.                 |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                  Sign in Ed Barsis' office         |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 06:44:26 +0800
To: users@ssz.com (SSZ User Mail List)
Subject: IRS Technology Chief Resigns [CNN]
Message-ID: <199802042242.QAA07077@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

>    
>                         IRS TECHNOLOGY CHIEF TO RESIGN
>                                        
>      
>      WASHINGTON (AP) -- Arthur Gross, the IRS official heading efforts to
>      update the agency's outmoded computer systems, plans to leave the
>      agency this spring.
>      
>      Gross, chief information officer at the IRS, won wide respect from
>      congressional Republicans for his computer modernization efforts
>      even as they grilled the agency for mistreatment of taxpayers last
>      year.
>      
>      He announced his plans to resign Tuesday.


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |       The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate,       |
   |       but the desire to edit somebody elses words.                 |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                  Sign in Ed Barsis' office         |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 06:44:47 +0800
To: users@ssz.com (SSZ User Mail List)
Subject: Pepsi a tad anal? [CNN]
Message-ID: <199802042243.QAA07160@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

>                    DRINKING THE COMPETITION LEADS TO LAWSUIT
>                                        
>      POMONA, California (AP) -- Just because he delivers Pepsi doesn't
>      mean he has to drink it.
>      
>      Michael Dillon has filed a discrimination lawsuit against the
>      soft-drink giant after he was reprimanded for drinking Gatorade on
>      the job and was publicly chastised for drinking a non-Pepsi product
>      during a meeting.
>      
>      Dillon says both claims invaded his privacy.
>      
>      A spokesman for Pepsi says the company doesn't forbid workers from
>      downing other soft drinks, but expects them to be team players when
>      it comes to being loyal.


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |       The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate,       |
   |       but the desire to edit somebody elses words.                 |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                  Sign in Ed Barsis' office         |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Trei, Peter" 
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 05:58:34 +0800
To: "'declan@well.com>
Subject: FW: SEC Rule Announcement
Message-ID: <6B5344C210C7D011835C0000F8012766010035B2@exna01.securitydynamics.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I haven't been able to confirm this report.
Note that it refers to monitoring employee's
HOME computers.

Peter Trei

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Larry Layten [SMTP:larry@ljl.com]
> Sent:	Wednesday, February 04, 1998 11:04 AM
> To:	cryptography@c2.net
> Subject:	SEC Rule Announcement
> 
> I received information in an Electronic Mail Association (EMA)
> bulletin that said the Securities and Exchange Commission 
> approved a rule that would go into effect February 15th that 
> requires securities employers to have the ability to monitor 
> electronic communications between employees and customers 
> on employees' home computers or through third party systems.
> 
> Does anyone have any more information on this and how it 
> might apply to encrypted email?
> 
> Larry





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 06:45:54 +0800
To: users@ssz.com (SSZ User Mail List)
Subject: Yeltsin: Clinton to cause next World War? [CNN]
Message-ID: <199802042244.QAA07241@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

>      
>              YELTSIN: CLINTON'S IRAQ ACTIONS COULD CAUSE WORLD WAR
>                                        
>       Yeltsin Yeltsin warns Clinton against use of force in
>      Iraq  February 4, 1998
>      Web posted at: 11:52 a.m. EST (1652 GMT)
>      
>      MOSCOW (CNN) -- Russian President Boris Yeltsin on Wednesday issued
>      the Kremlin's strongest criticism yet of U.S. threats to launch
>      military strikes against Iraq, saying such action could trigger
>      another world war.
>      
>      "By his actions, (U.S. President Bill) Clinton might run into a
>      world war," a somber Yeltsin said at a televised meeting in the
>      Russian capital.
>      
>      "He is behaving too loudly on this -- too loudly", Yeltsin said. And
>      he added, "Well, now (some are saying) let us flood it all with
>      planes and bombs. No, frankly speaking, it is not like Clinton at
>      all."
>      
>      "One must be more careful in this world saturated with allsorts of
>      weapons which are sometimes in terrorists' hands," the Kremlin chief
>      said, occasionally gripping his desktop andgrimacing. "It's all very
>      dangerous."


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |       The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate,       |
   |       but the desire to edit somebody elses words.                 |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                  Sign in Ed Barsis' office         |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Trei, Peter" 
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 06:21:50 +0800
To: "'declan@well.com>
Subject: FW: SEC Rule Announcement
Message-ID: <6B5344C210C7D011835C0000F8012766010035B3@exna01.securitydynamics.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



[sorry if you get this twice - pt]

I have not been able to confirm the claim in this letter - the EMA
does not seem to have a web site. Note that it refers to 
employers monitoring employee's HOME computers.

Peter Trei

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Larry Layten [SMTP:larry@ljl.com]
> Sent:	Wednesday, February 04, 1998 11:04 AM
> To:	cryptography@c2.net
> Subject:	SEC Rule Announcement
> 
> I received information in an Electronic Mail Association (EMA)
> bulletin that said the Securities and Exchange Commission 
> approved a rule that would go into effect February 15th that 
> requires securities employers to have the ability to monitor 
> electronic communications between employees and customers 
> on employees' home computers or through third party systems.
> 
> Does anyone have any more information on this and how it 
> might apply to encrypted email?
> 
> Larry





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 06:19:04 +0800
To: "Attila T. Hun" 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 4:56 pm -0500 on 2/4/98, Attila T. Hun wrote:


>         "Americans do not buy for quality, they buy for price"


Which must explain our gross national product, then. Cheaper, as always,
*is* better.


>
>     as John Ruskin said:
>
>     1.  those who buy for price alone are this man's lawful prey.

Those who *don't* buy for price alone are usually somebody's lunch sooner
or later.


>     2.  the price of oats is significantly cheaper when it has been
>         processed by the horse.

It ain't oats, then. It's horseshit. Aparently aristocratic horseshit, if I
remember Mr. Ruskin's bio right...

;-).

Cheers,
Bob

-----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/
Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: 






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 01:51:11 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Internic may be required to return money
Message-ID: <199802041740.SAA28340@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Holy shit.

>
>         Court: Domain fees appear illegal
>         By Brock N. Meeks
>
>         WASHINGTON, Feb. 2 - A federal court Monday issued a
>         temporary injunction barring the federal government from
>         spending some $50 million it has collected from the
>         registration of Internet domain names. That money forms a
>         pool of funds intended to be spent for improving the
>         Internet. On Monday, the court sided with the plaintiffs in a
>         lawsuit that claims those fees constitute an illegal tax. 
>
>         The money is part of a so-called "intellectual infrastructure
>         fund," which is funded by 30 percent of all fees paid to
>         register an Internet domain name. Initial domain names cost
>         $100; renewal of domain names is $50 annually. The
>         remainder of registration fees goes to Network Solutions
>         Inc. (NSOL) to cover its cost of maintaining the registration
>         service. 
>
>         Network Solutions operates as a monopoly, stemming from
>         a National Science Foundation government grant. That
>         grant is supposed to end in March; the White House issued
>         a proposal Jan. 30 that would move domain name
>         registration into the private sector. 
>
>         In October, six domain-name holders filed suit in U.S.
>         District Court alleging that the National Science Foundation
>         had no authority to allow Network Solutions to collect any
>         money in excess of its cost of providing the registration
>         service. Further, the suit charged, the 30 percent
>         set-aside amounts to an unconstitutional tax. 
>
>         Judge Thomas Hogan said Monday that the plaintiffs "have
>         made a significant showing that the (intellectual
>         infrastructure fund) is an illegal tax." 
>
>         Hogan said there is "no litmus paper onto which the Court
>         can drop a regulatory assessment such as this one, hoping
>         to see whether the paper comes up blue for tax or pink for
>         fee." Justice Department lawyers had argued in court that
>         the domain-name registration fee was exactly that, a fee,
>         because it was paid voluntarily and therefore couldn't be
>         considered a tax. 
>
>         But Hogan disagreed, writing that "there is no dispute that
>         the assessment (registration fee) is involuntary - it is
>         automatically charged to every domain registration." 
>
>         In 1995 Network Solution's contract was amended to allow
>         it to begin collecting fees for the registration process,
>         which it had done for free since 1993, when its contract
>         was issued. The registration fees set off a firestorm of
>         criticism in the Internet community. The Intellectual
>         Infrastructure Fund was supposed to be used for the
>         betterment of the Internet for the community as a whole;
>         however, no plan has ever developed on how to spend the
>         money, which is held in escrow. 
>
>         Because no plan had been developed to spend the fund
>         money, Congress rushed into the vacuum late last year
>         and simply appropriated some $23 million. Congress
>         earmarked that money to be spent on the Next Generation
>         Internet project, which President Bill Clinton highlighted in
>         his recent State of the Union speech. 
>
>         "Under federal law, no independent executive agency -
>         such as the National Science Foundation - can collect
>         fees that exceed the cost of providing the service they are
>         administering," said William Bode, attorney for the plaintiffs.
>         "NSI, the agent of NSF, spends less than $5 to register
>         domain names, yet it charges a registration fee of $100 and
>         renewal fees of $50 per year," he said. 
>
>         Network Solutions did not return calls for comment. 
>
>         Bode also argued that only Congress has the authority to
>         tax and that no such authorization has taken place. The
>         Justice Department argued that because Congress
>         appropriated the $23 million from the infrastructure fund, it
>         had essentially ratified the tax. 
>
>         Bode argued that ratification of a tax can't take place in
>         authorization bills. Judge Hogan agreed, noting that
>         ratification is a legislative function and that "it is well known
>         that Congress does not normally legislate through
>         appropriations bills." Hogan added: "Congress may have
>         intended to grant NSF the authority to collect the
>         assessment, but it has not effected a legal ratification." 
>
>         The suit also is seeking antitrust damages, alleging that the
>         NSF violated the competition in contracting act when it
>         allowed Network Solutions to begin collecting the $100 fee.
>         Bode says the competition act requires the NSF to re-bid a
>         new contract, not simply amend it. 
>
>         The temporary injunction "paves the way for our motion,
>         which we'll file in two days, to require NSI to return all
>         registration renewal fees which exceed the cost of
>         providing that service," attorney Bode said. "We think that
>         cost [to NSI for the registration process] is significantly less
>         than $10, probably $2 to $3," he said, "which would mean
>         that there would be a refund of approximately $100 million
>         in our judgment." 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert H Guttman 
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 07:54:18 +0800
To: "Robert Hettinga" 
Subject: Re: The Continued Attack on Cash (Was: "The Right of  Anonymity"...)
Message-ID: <199802042348.SAA17496@ml.media.mit.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> > "Americans do not buy for quality, they buy for price"
> 
> Which must explain our gross national product, then. Cheaper,
> as always, *is* better.
> 
> > as John Ruskin said:
> >  1.  those who buy for price alone are this man's lawful prey.
> 
> Those who *don't* buy for price alone are usually somebody's
> lunch sooner or later.

I somehow missed the full thread on this topic, but I disagree
that "cheaper, as always, *is* better."  There are many markets
and situations where people (Americans included) shop by "value"
(perceived or otherwise), not just price.  This is what VARs and
"branding" are about and what enables market power.

For example, Gerry Heller, CEO of FastParts - an online auction
for semiconductors, was quoted in a recent Forrester Research
report as admitting that even in this commodity-like market
"availability is more important than price" when it comes to
auctioning semiconductors.

- Rob



-----------------------------------------------------------------
Robert H Guttman                               voice:617-253-9603
mailto:guttman@media.mit.edu                 MIT Media Laboratory
http://www.media.mit.edu/~guttman           Software Agents Group
http://ecommerce.media.mit.edu/         Agent-mediated E-Commerce
-----------------------------------------------------------------






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Attila T. Hun" 
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 05:04:25 +0800
To: Tim May 
Subject: Re: the best justice money can buy --Lessig suspended
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <19980204.181907.attila@hun.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



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on or about 980203:1222, in , 
    Tim May  was purported to have 
    expostulated to perpetuate an opinion:

>As for Attila's calls to break up MS...could make Bill Gates immensely
>wealthier, as he'd then have a piece of the 5 most successful software
>companies!

    after they extract the usual treble damages in antitrust
    litigation, Bill will probably retain significant
    assets, but he probably would not top the list of the
    very wealthy, and might not even make it.

>(I assume Attila is not arguing for simply seizing his property and
>giving it to others, or running it as a government company, or just
>padlocking the doors....)

    no, in fact, if there were a free market remedy for M$'
    monopoly, I would be in favour of it --and there is _no_
    free market remedy and failure to act promptly 
    conceivably wipe out all, or virtually all, of the 
    viable competitors.

    the purpose of antitrust legislation is solely to
    remedy an injustice caused by a private market segment
    which became a monopoly.  divestiture for M$ would
    generally be along the lines of AT&T except it would
    focus on divisions rather than regions; secondly, it
    would obviously restrict Gate$ involvement in more than
    one despite any stock ownership and might require Bill:

    a)  to sell all stock in units he does not control;

    b)  take his payout in stock from one unit only (less
        negative market); or,

    c)  he may not have enough left after Sherman Act 
        penalties to be a major stockholder --he might
        actually need to suffer through stockholders
        meetings like the rest of the CEOs.

    I would never advocate seizing assets for redistribution
    vis a vis Mugabe or whatever the despot's name is --what
    a waste-- if uncle Sam redistributed we would have
    Microsoft-Harlem, Microsoft-Watts, etc.  shit, I had to
    stop typing after the mirth of that thought!

    as for the government running _anything_ --how far do we
    need to look for the nearest government excess and total
    mismanagement, featherbedding, and corruption?  not far
    (you, Tim, on a non-clear day cant see very much from
    your hilltop --out here on the high desert ridges in So.
    Utah it is CAVU the vast majority of the time-- and I
    still cant see any as Feds are like Revenuers in KY).

    there are multiple issues:

    1.  Microsoft's almost good enough (for the market) 
        operating systems which probably should be 
        considered what we called firmware 25 years ago.  at
        this point >90% of the platforms run M$ in one form
        or another and as you acknowledge, SGI, DEC, and so
        on are all hedging their bets --which will become
        reality as soon as they open the floodgates. 

        in software, the sheeple follow the Judas goat to
        Redmond.

    2.  Microsoft "software"

        a)  office suite  --already 95% of desktop market

        b)  data base --maybe should be included in a) but
            Oracle, Sybase, IBM, etc have large installed 
            bases at a much higher cost per unit on servers

        c)  browser --certainly will be at 80% before year
            end as all OEMs so far have indicated they will 
            not cross M$ and switch. that leaves the rest of
            it up to the ISPs who could care less.

        d)  back office  --M$ moving in on this one real
            fast and it is now part of NT distribution-- 
            which then requires the browser and webserver
            for installation and maintenance.

        e)  web servers, firewalls, routers, etc.  --M$ is
            already getting the web servers with NT
            distributions and is poised to tackle firewalls
            and router dominance.  I question that they can
            ever configure NT on any hardware to do
            routing/switching effectively, efficiently, or
            competitively against dedicated hardware given 
            the new >1G switches.

    3.  M$ in cable systems.  cable systems are always cash
        poor from infrastructure expense.  M$ is buying in 
        and therefore influencing the choice of settops
        --and their format-- witness TCI. this further
        establishes M$ in the determination of standards
        --obviously to the detriment of everyone else-- and
        the FCC has mandated the boxes must be compatible
        across the board in a couple years and we all know
        who negotiates dirty and hard

        the only saviour in this one may be Time-Warner
        which so far is moving ahead with its 2way cable 
        system from Scientific Atlanta with a sparc chip,
        etc.  T-W has 2.5 million boxes on order and is
        planning extensive deployment 3rd quarter which 
        is at least 12 months before M$ can even beta test
        with TCI 

    4.  content...

        a)  msn which so far is harmless, but what would
            happen if Gate$ absorbed Assholes on Line?  or 
            really pushed MSN at POS and OEM.

        b)  msnbc which apparently still enjoys editorial
            censorship only from the usual channels of our 
            non-free press.

        c)  reference bookshelf in which the latest revision
            of the EnCarta encyclopediae described Gate$ as 
            a "philanthropist"  --cheap son of bitch only 
            coughed $100 million towards school internet as
            long as it was M$ product. he may have been
            better termed a misogynist (before he was
            married) given his terms of usage....

        content is where we really start to worry more than
        Bill's money, which has already bought influence: 
        the WSJ editorial page article by Bill striking back
        at the DOJ, the NYTimes column, the books, and the
        rest of the demigod worshipping media.

    Gate$' fortunes have been changing:  Gate$ now has for
    more enemies than his money can buy friends.  even the
    SPA has turned against him with their white paper on
    fair competition which is a direct shot across Gate$'
    bow --and Gate$' response was that their membership in
    SPA might not be renewed in August --economic threat. 
    The DOJ has expanded their scope and will probably file
    significant actions shortly (hopefully before the 21 Apr
    appeals court hearing)

    next are the states, eleven so far including NY, TX, IL 
    and CA where they have very definitely aggressive AGs. 
    and CA's is pissed over the sweetheart deal the CSU
    system gave M$ to supply everything as the "official
    vendor" of the CSU system which has 20+ campi and how
    many million students?

    complain about a McDonalds' generation?  shit, that's 
    only your stomach, not your mind --and at least there
    are other choices for food --I personally have never
    eaten at McDonalds; of course, that does not say much as
    I have never owned a television, either.

    we already have an M$ generation.  they all learned on 
    PCs and they all programmed to PCs and windows with
    their private APIs.  this is exactly what creating a
    positive feedback, self-enhancing market place does: 
    McDonalds grabbed their stomachs with their playgrounds,
    etc. and M$ twists their minds.

    BOTTOM LINE:  Gate$ manipulation, scheming, red-dog
    contracts, etc.  make Cornelius Vanderbilt look like a
    choir boy.  Gate$ style of management with Steve Ballmer
    as the heavy and Gate$ trying to cover his geekness as
    the "aw shucks" boy next door has had the curtain pulled
    to show what technically amounts to a legal "conspiracy"
    to dominate multiple markets, both vertically and
    horizontally.

    as such, M$ and their executives actions fall directly
    under the guidelines of part B of the Sherman Antitrust
    act which includes the usual penalties of divestiture,
    treble damages, and _criminal_ penalties.  secondly, M$
    and Gate$, if convicted of violating part 2, could then
    be construed as a "corrupt" meaning malicious intent

        the difference between misfeasance and malfeasance
        is that in the latter you were intentionally fucked

    which qualifies for RICO prosecution as well.  in 
    addition to the extremely severe criminal penalties, RICO
    does provide for confiscation of ill gotten assets
    --this would apply to Gate$ monetary gains, including
    his stock, which could be forfeited.

    frankly, I think it would be most amusing to see Gate$
    and Ballmer receiving the customary "3 hots and a cot"
    for such offenders and to need to work for a living like
    the rest of us when they earn their freedom.

    the fact that RICO could apply does not mean that it 
    will be trundled out --but it would be fitting justice. 

    I will never denigrate Gate$ determination to build M$
    and to proliferate the computer, which he did, a little
    too well.

    --but Gate$ crossed the line:

    Gate$' instinct set him on the path that competition
    means forcing everyone and their ideas (those that he
    did not steal, literally or figuratively) from the 
    marketplace --Bill can not compete; he must "own" the
    market.  William Henry Gates III expects to be crowned
    "William III" --see my rant on 16 Oct.  on DejaVu or:
 
      http://www.primenet.com/~attila/rants/gates/7a16-ms_monopoly.html

    not to be crass about it, but Gate$ has served his 
    purpose and outlived his usefulness --his defense
    against the DOJ, his further market actions while under
    attack, and his intent to trump the moot with Win98 are
    actions of a petty dictator; give Bill a shiny new
    uniform from a Napoleanic banana republic and let him
    prance around.

    any more of Gate$ not only becomes tiresome, but 
    hazardous to our health.  give me the hook...

    there is no free market remedy for M$' control of the
    market place as the consumer will not boycott something
    which a) costs them money do so; and, b) for which there
    is no ready substitute. the only alternative is to apply
    the anti-trust laws in the general interests of 
    society which does not mean government ownership or
    management.

    M$ stockholders may either make or lose money depending
    on the valuations the market assigns to each of the 
    divested divisions --but that is a risk you take in the
    market if your greed exceeds your wisdom. ask any VC, 
    whose greed is only exceeded by his fear.


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 08:27:31 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: STOA Assessment of Techno-Control
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980205002157.006c1454@pop.pipeline.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



We've transcribed the Euro-Parliament STOA report, 
"An Appraisal of the Technologies of Political Control," 
6 January 1998, a portion of which was offered earlier
by Axel Horns and Ulf Möller.

   http://jya.com/stoa-atpc.htm  (295K text + 210K images)

Zipped version:

   http://jya.com/stoa-atpc.zip  (314K)

It's a grim assessment, revealing more than most of us want to 
face about the dark side of high technology, especially what 
the most technologically advanced nations are deploying, and 
building to sell to the worst of humanity, and how export laws 
are flaunted to cut criminal deals in defiance of high-minded law 
and public policy.

It demonstrates that he national security heritage continues, 
sharing military technology with governmental outlaws around 
the globe.

And the US is leading the market.

It would be cathartic for this report was widely read, pondered,
then acted upon, in the US and globally. Kudos to the European 
Parliament for sponsoring it. And congratulations to the authors 
and the beleaguered organizations who've been trying for years
to diminish this over civilized madness, to jolt us out of 
techno-narcosis.

There's much in the report that's been discussed here, and much
more that has not but deserves to be.

The full report is 112 pages, 50 pages of main body, 13
pages of notes and 25 pages of bibliography. We've
not yet transcribed the detailed bibliography.

As noted earlier, the contents are:

Abstract
Executive Summary
Acknowledgements
Tables and Charts
1  Introduction
2  Role and Function of Political Control Technologies 
3  Recent Trends and Innovations
4  Developments in Surveillance Technology 
5  Innovations in Crowd Control Weapons 
6  New Prison Control Systems 
7  Interrogation, Torture Techniques and Technologies             
8  Regulation of Horizontal Proliferation 
9  Conclusions
10 Notes and References
11 Bibliography [Not yet transcribed]
Appendix 1. Military, Security & Police Fairs. [Not provided with report]






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 10:14:44 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Sun takes over Netscape? [CNN]
Message-ID: <199802050211.UAA00178@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

>    February 4, 1998: 7:27 p.m. ET
>    
>    More related sites... NEW YORK (CNNfn) - Shares of Netscape
>    Communications Corp. shot up Wednesday amid rumors that the company is
>    being eyed as a possible takeover target by Sun Microsystems Inc.
>    [INLINE] The takeover scuttlebut drove Netscape (NSCP) stock up 1-1/16
>    to 19-1/4 in active trading. The surge capped a four-day trading
>    period in which the Internet software company's shares have jumped
>    roughly 20 percent from a Friday close of 16-1/16.
>    [INLINE] Despite the leap, Netscape stock remains sharply down in
>    1998, having dropped nearly 20 percent in the first 23 trading days of
>    the year.


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |       The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate,       |
   |       but the desire to edit somebody elses words.                 |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                  Sign in Ed Barsis' office         |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 10:36:03 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re:  Fingerprinting in CA [was Whoa: British SmartCard rollout]
Message-ID: <199802050220.VAA21403@panix2.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



How come there is no organized opposition to fingerprinting
everyone in the nation? [U.S.-centric talk, but applies to Britain too]

There was just a news report on "KidsSafe", a smartcard for holding
kids' health details for an emergency. "Eventually, they won't have
to carry the card, we can instantly look up the information from
their fingerprints".

Excerpts from the Cryptography Manifesto follows...

BTW, it's finally online! I need to update it for the past
6 months of activity, but...

   http://www.erols.com/paulwolf/cointelpro/cointel.htm  (scroll down)

----

Fingerprinting everyone in the USA - nay, the planet - is a known plot
by the NSA: see (the 2nd) "The Body as Password" below.

Are we all going to silently roll over and accept this NSA crap???

It's our tax money, but we NEVER got to vote on it.

How about some cypherpunk with money challenging it on the
basis shown below of violating Privacy Act of 1974?
---guy




Sure, government can give debate reasons for requiring fingerprinting
for driver's licenses...

But it is still a violation of the minimization requirement of the Privacy
Act of 1974.

Biometric data on citizens is FAR BEYOND any reason government can give.

Notice how no citizens in any state ever got to vote on such an important
escalation of personal data collection by the government.

Indeed, it seems to be accomplished in the quietest way possible, giving
citizens the least amount of opportunity to choose their fate.

Odd, since tax-payer paid-for government services is what gives them the power.

But elected representatives will do, you say?

Did you hear any of them mention it during campaigning?

Did Alabama elected officials even mention it with their press
release of a new driver's license, despite that being the plan?

No.

What does that tell you?

We need a cabinet-level Privacy Commission,
with the power to intervene nationwide.

Power to protect us little people from fanatical personal data collection.

We are losing it piece by piece.

Who would have thought the United States would
collect fingerprints from all citizens?

This is the main way our Federal Government is rolling out the National ID
Card, using a Universal Biometric Card: driver's licenses.
 
Divide and Conquer, state by state.
 
It is the beginning of the end.
 
Don't think the biometric driver's licenses are the exact equivalent of a
National ID Card? Check out this phrasing from an unimplemented law:
 
#   Privacy Journal, By Robert Ellis Smith, October 1983 issue
#
#   Senator Bob Dole wants the government to conduct a three-year study to
#   unify federal and local requirements for personal identity.
#
#   The bill, S1706, would amend the Federal False Id Act of 1982, to require
#   a comprehensive identity scheme for the U.S., either THROUGH UPDATING
#   EXISTING IDs TO BE MORE SECURE, UNIFYING THEM, or creating a new identity
#   document for all Americans.


Collect biometric information from everyone...
law enforcement's Evil Holy Grail.

*   "U.S. Has Plan to Broaden Availability tests of DNA Testing"
*   By Fox Butterfield, The New York Times, undated but 1996 implied.
*   
*   In a little known provision of the Clinton Administration's 1994 Crime
*   Control Act was a call for the establishment of a nationwide DNA data
*   bank like the current national system for fingerprints, run by the FBI.
*   
*   In the two years since then, 42 states have passed laws requiring prison
*   inmates give blood or saliva samples for a "DNA fingerprint."
*   
*   In a report today, the Justice Department said it is stepping up efforts
*   to make such DNA biometric capture "as common as fingerprinting" and that
*   they expect the test in five years to go from $700 each to a mere $10 and
*   take only hours or minutes to accomplish.


And how much hardware is a handheld fingerprint device?

*   "Lucent in New Identification Joint Venture"
*   The New York Times, 5/22/97
*   
*   Lucent Technologies [Bell Labs is their research and development arm] and
*   U.S. Venture Partners said today that they had formed a company that would
*   make products to help people prove their identities through electronic
*   fingerprinting technology.
*   
*   The first product of the company, Veridicom Inc., will be a postage-size
*   fingerprint sensor used to retrieve information, authorize purchases or
*   allow entry into restricted areas.
*   
*   The postage-size sensor will measure the ridges and valleys on the skin
*   when a finger is pressed against a silicon chip, and then check the
*   measurements against the user's profile.

Not big at all, is it?

#   "Faster, More Accurate Fingerprint Matching"
#   By Andrea Adelson, The New York Times, October 11 1992
#   
#   "We think there will be a revolution in fingerprinting," said David F.
#   Nemecek, a deputy for the FBI's Information Service Division.
#   
#   The next step is for manufacturers to make a single-finger mobile scanner
#   for use in patrol cars. Some FBI cars are expected to get them next year.

$   "The Body As Password", By Ann Davis, Wired Magazine, July 1997
$   
$   In October 1995, the Federal Highway Administration awarded a $400,000
$   contract to San Jose State University's College of Engineering to develop
$   standards for a "biometric identifier" on commercial driver's licenses and
$   for use in a centralized national database.

A centralized national database of biometric information for cross-state
driver's licenses, and all individual state driver's license fingerprints
available via the FBI's NCIC.


*   "Project L.U.C.I.D.", by Texe Marrs, 1996, ISBN 1-884302-02-5
*   
*   News reports indicate that, like California, practically all of the 50
*   states are in the process of installing news systems for drivers licenses,
*   often incorporating biometric measurements such as digitization of finger-
*   prints. That these systems are linked together gives us an indication of
*   the powerful grip our hidden controllers have on this nation.
*
*   All federal agencies are being integrated into this data net. These Police
*   State agencies constitute a clear and present danger, not only to the
*   privacy and constitutional rights of Americans but to our very lives!
*
*   A Hitler, a Pol Pot, or a Stalin would have loved to have had the
*   microchips, surveillance cameras, lasers, computers, satellites, weapons,
*   wiretap circuits and communications gadgetry of today's Dick Tracy Police
*   State.
*
*   Perhaps FBI Director Louis Freeh said it best shortly after his
*   appointment to the Federal Bureau of Investigation in 1993. Referring
*   to the incredible array of computerized control and battle gadgetry
*   available to federal law enforcement, Freeh, stressing cooperation
*   between his own FBI and the other alphabet police agencies, sardonically
*   remarked, "LET'S SHARE OUR TOYS."
*
*   Dick Tracy, of course, was a good guy. But Dick Tracy would have
*   recognized as unconstitutional the worldwide comprehensive Orwellian
*   system that has been installed, and reject it as a menace to true law
*   and order.


!   "Welfare Recipients Lose Benefits Through Glitches in Computers"
!   By Joe Sexton, The New York Times, 5/16/96
!   
!   The fingerprint-imaging system that is a central element of the Giuliani
!   administration's effort to crack down on welfare fraud has resulted in
!   hundreds of recipients cases being closed.
!   
!   The public advocate's office has been inundated with complaints from
!   improper case closings.
!   
!   The failure seems to stem from the local offices not transmitting the
!   fingerprints to Albany's central computer. This resulted in AUTOMATICALLY
!   TERMINATING BENEFITS OF PEOPLE THE COMPUTER THOUGHT WERE NOT FINGERPRINTED.


----


Prior to the fingerprint "final solution" of control over us, there were
other attempts---which would have required a vote---which tried to roll
out a National ID Card.

*   "Project L.U.C.I.D.", by Texe Marrs, 1996, ISBN 1-884302-02-5
*   
*   Since total and absolute control can be obtained only by a Police State
*   bureaucracy, efforts have escalated in recent years to require a National
*   ID Card.
*   
*   Upon Bill Clinton's election as President, Secretary of Health and Human
*   Services Donna Shalala and Massachusetts Senator Edward Kennedy jointly
*   developed a $100 million plan to require all children and babies to have
*   a dossier established in a national computer registry to insure "universal
*   mandatory vaccinations."
*   
*   When patriotic Americans rose up to protest, the U.S. Senate quietly
*   shelved the deceptive Shalala-Kennedy proposal.
*   
*   The Clinton administration next surfaced with its mandatory health care
*   plan. A key component of this plot to socialize medical care was the
*   requirement of a computer I.D. card for every American, linked to a master
*   computer network.
*   
*   Martin Anderson, writing in The Washington Times:
*
*       President Clinton held the pretty red, white and blue "smart card" in
*       his hand when he addressed the nation, proudly waving it like a small
*       American flag.
*
*       Only it wasn't a flag; it was a "health security card"---his slick
*       name for a national identity card. Under his plan a new National
*       Health Board would establish "national, unique identifier numbers"
*       for every single one of us.
*
*       Fortunately, President Bill Clinton's healthcare scam never made it
*       into law. Sadly, few of the complainers were upset about the potential
*       for abuse by Big Brother.
*
*   Shortly after being elected, one Clinton advisor promoting the biochip
*   'mark' is Dr. Mary Jane England, a member of Hillary Clinton's ill-fated
*   socialized, national healthcare initiative. Addressing a conference
*   sponsored by computer giant IBM [IBM's Lotus division takes hand biometrics
*   of employees who use their childcare facilities] in Palm Springs,
*   California, in 1994, England not only endorsed the proposed mandatory
*   national I.D. smart card, but went one scary step further:
*
*       The smart card is a wonderful idea, but even better would be the
*       capacity to not have a card, and I call it "a chip in your ear,"
*       that would actually access your medical records, so that no matter
*       where you were, even if you came into an emergency room unconscious,
*       we would have some capacity to access that medical record.
*
*       We need to go beyond the narrow conceptualization of the smart card
*       and really use some of the technology that's out there.
*
*   California Governor Pete Wilson has actively stumped for a National I.D.
*   Card system, using the straw man of California's pervasive immigration
*   problem. California Senators Diane Feinstein and Barbara Boxer support
*   it too. The latest proposal is to mandate I.D. cards for all school
*   children under the Goals 2000 national education program. Another plan
*   by the U.S. Labor Department would have required it for all users of a
*   National Job Training and Employment database.
*
*   George Orwell, in 1984, his classic novel of Big Brother and a coming
*   totalitarian state, observed that very few people are awake and alert
*   to the machinations and manipulations of the controllers. Thus, the
*   people, as a whole, fall victim to a colossal conspiracy out of ignorance
*   and because of apathy and denial of reality:
*
*       The people could be made to accept the most flagrant violations of
*       reality, because they never fully grasped the enormity of what was
*       demanded of them, and were not sufficiently interested in public
*       events to notice what was happening.
[
    By Walter Cronkite: "Orwell's '1984'---Nearing?", NYT, June 5 1983

    In our world, where a Vietnam village can be destroyed so it can be
    saved; where the President names the latest thing in nuclear missiles
    "Peacekeeper"---in such a world, can the Orwellian vision be very far
    away?

    Big Brother's ears have plugs in them right now (or they are, by law,
    supposed to), at least on the domestic telephone and cable traffic.

    But the National Security Agency's ability to monitor microwave
    transmissions, to scoop out of the air VAST numbers of communications,
    including telephone conversations, store them in computers, play them
    back later, has a truly frightening potential for abuse.

    George Orwell issued a warning.

    He told us that freedom is too much taken for granted, that it needs to
    be carefully watched and protected. His last word on the subject was a
    plea to his readers: "Don't let it happen. It depends on you."
]
*
*   The National Security Agency's Project L.U.C.I.D., with all its
*   technological wizardry, is a future, planetary dictator's dream---and a
*   Christian and national patriot's nightmare. Someday, the Holy Bible
*   prophesies, that planetary dictator will emerge on the scene, lusting
*   for blood...
*
*   There can be no doubt about it.
*
*   The REAL Chief Executive Officer of the NSA is not a human being.
*
*   The CEO MUST be Lucifer himself.

Amen.


----


It is technology driving the capabilities, it is our government using
them ruthlessly: without letting us vote on it.

Never before could someone walk up to you and number you by scanning
your fingerprints. A number that is yours and yours alone.

You have been numbered for all time.

No ID card needed once portable fingerprint scanners are deployed all over!

If the government suddenly ordered all citizens to be numbered with an
indelible invisible ink on their arms so they were permanently numbered;
so law enforcement could scan them at will: there would be a revolt.

Yet that is what is happening.

Fingerprints, scanned into a computer, are a number.

The number is inescapably yours.

Modern technology means they don't have to put the number on you, they can
read it off of you by minutely examining your body.

And: it is the NSA driving the fingerprint-rollout of the national ID card.

#   "The Body As Password", By Ann Davis, Wired Magazine, July 1997
#   
#   Currently housed at the National Security Agency, a working group of
#   federal bureaucrats founded the Biometric Consortium in the early 1990s.
#   Its 1995 charter promises to "promote the science and performance of
#   biometrics for the government."
#   
#   Consortium mumbers include state welfare agencies, driver's license
#   bureaus, the Immigration and Naturalization Service, the Social Security
#   Administration, and the Internal Revenue Service.


If my attempts to show how bad a thing this is have been too rambling,
too abstract, here is a simple and accurate analogy:

*   "Project L.U.C.I.D.", by Texe Marrs, 1996, ISBN 1-884302-02-5
*
*   It was Martin Anderson who, in his book, Revolution, revealed that during
*   the Reagan administration during the 1980s, several top cabinet officials
*   were urging President Ronald Reagan to implement a computerized National
*   I.D. Card.
*
*   The rationale for the proposal was that such a system would help put a lid
*   on illegal immigration. [Reagan had been Governor of California]
*
*   But Anderson, who at the time was a domestic advisor to the President and
*   sat in on this particular cabinet meeting, spoke up and gave the group
*   something to think about.
*
*   "I would like to suggest another way that I think is a lot better," he
*   told them, serious in demeanor but clearly being facetious. "It's a lot
*   cheaper, it can't be counterfeited. It's very lightweight, and it's
*   impossible to lose. It's even waterproof."
*
*   "All we have to do," Anderson continued, "is tattoo an identification
*   number on the inside of everybody's arm."
*
*   His reference was to the tattooing of numbers on victims in Nazi
*   concentration camps. Survivors still bear the dreaded tattoo markings
*   to this day.
*
*   Mr. Anderson described the stunned reaction of those present, "There were
*   several gasps around the table. A couple cabinet members looked as if they
*   had been slapped. No one said anything for a long time."
*
*   Ronald Reagan, a consummately wise politician who professed a belief in
*   Bible prophecy, caught the implication [about The Mark of the Devil].
*
*   He then hushed the cabinet and efficiently dismissed the National ID Card
*   proposal by sardonically remarking, "Maybe we should just brand all babies."



        "Those that give up essential liberty for a little
         security, deserve neither liberty nor security."
                                        - Ben Franklin

         
        "When ID's are mandatory, it is time to leave the planet."
                                        - Robert Heinlein


*   "Project L.U.C.I.D.", by Texe Marrs, 1996, ISBN 1-884302-02-5
*
*   In the November 1994 publication of the FBI Law Enforcement Bulletin,
*   the FBI advocated BIOMETRIC CAPTURE FOR ALL NEWBORN BABIES AND
*   SIMULTANEOUSLY THEIR MOTHERS.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 11:37:01 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Rogue root domain reconfiguration [CNN]
Message-ID: <199802050334.VAA00469@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

>           ADMINISTRATION SAYS INTERNET RECONFIGURATION WAS ROGUE TEST
>                                        
>      graphic February 4, 1998
>      Web posted at: 9:29 p.m. EST (0229 GMT)
>      
>      WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Clinton administration said Wednesday it was
>      confident a researcher in California won't repeat his rogue
>      reconfiguration of the Internet -- a test that few users noticed but
>      that raised concerns about how the worldwide network is run.
>      
>      Jon Postel, who runs the Internet Assigned Numbers Authority at the
>      University of Southern California under a Defense Department
>      contract, last week redirected half the Internet's 12
>      directory-information computers to his own system.
>      
>      Normally, those so-called "root servers" help users find addresses
>      on the Internet by pulling data from Network Solutions Inc., a
>      private company in northern Virginia that operates under a federal
>      government contract.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Attila T. Hun" 
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 05:43:29 +0800
To: "Steve Orrin" 
Subject: Re: HUMOR: Bill Gates gets it, PRESERVED for the FUTURE!
In-Reply-To: <19980204190827281.AAA314.381@endor.syndata.domain>
Message-ID: <19980204.213032.attila@hun.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

>http://www.cnn.com/TECH/computing/9802/04/belgium.gates.ap/
>A Picture Tells A Thousand Words.

    yes, it does.  he still looks like a geek.

    and since CNN archives are spotty, it is now preserved for the
    future.  (available tonight)

        http://www.primenet.com/~attila/rants/gates/8204-belgium_gates.html

    made my day!

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Version: 2.6.3i
Charset: latin1
Comment: No safety this side of the grave. Never was; never will be

iQBVAwUBNNjfC7R8UA6T6u61AQEE/AH9EWvCnUmxs8e/+KynguU8mu+Pmbc/f525
N1EK9hdp5HgGHBiVBmENP78iNCF1miREtKTvBGmSqpH0DEAzpHprEA==
=NKvr
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Attila T. Hun" 
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 06:05:07 +0800
To: Robert Hettinga 
Message-ID: <19980204.215246.attila@hun.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

on or about 980203:1053, in , 
    Robert Hettinga  was purported to have 
    expostulated to perpetuate an opinion:

>The cost of anything is the foregone alternative. People will only demand
>more privacy when it's cheaper than not having it. I believe that that
>time is coming, rather quickly.
>
    that, and 

        "Americans do not buy for quality, they buy for price"


    as John Ruskin said:

    1.  those who buy for price alone are this man's lawful prey.

    2.  the price of oats is significantly cheaper when it has been
        processed by the horse.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3i
Charset: latin1
Comment: No safety this side of the grave. Never was; never will be

iQBVAwUBNNjj0LR8UA6T6u61AQF/VgH+I8k5TPa9u0mjBOZbhB+zl+C6Eo0yH4gY
9fgqICC+hmhzIQe1l1a9Y/3n0rWu5K6cWsTSzSF8KC4XyyLwH8fGQQ==
=tQT9
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Attila T. Hun" 
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 06:28:09 +0800
To: "James O'Toole" 
Subject: RE: The Continued Attack on Cash (Was: "The Right of Anonymity"...)
In-Reply-To: <01BD308B.1A566960@slip-james.lcs.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <19980204.220302.attila@hun.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

on or about 980203:1003, in <01BD308B.1A566960@slip-james.lcs.mit.edu>, 
    "James O'Toole"  was purported to have 
    expostulated to perpetuate an opinion:

>Pretty soon we'll run up against the problem of whether Tim May can
>configure a corporate in the U.S. to be operated by people who don't know
>who he is, and who can't find out who he is (when properly encouraged to
>cooperate by Ken Starr...).  With or without government regulation, the
>most reliable people you can hire to operate that corporation for you may
>only want to do so if they are given the opportunity to somehow "know"
>you.

    in the U.S. the _best_ you will ever do is run a smokescreen

>I think you can probably use a bank in a privacy-enhancing-locale such as
>Switzerland as an effective intermediary in Amex card issuance, but if
>you really don't want the bank to know who you are, you'll probably need
>a corporate intermediary between you and the bank, with nominee
>officers.

    dont use Switzerland; it has been translucent for at least 20     
    years and is fast approaching transparency.

    Lichtenstein --if you can get an introduction into Landesbank from
    a local 'truehand'   --even better, if you can get into the PrivatBank.
    just remember, if it is the former, as you enter the main circle in
    Vaduz from the south, get out and kiss the bricks.  if you can not
    get the introduction, dont count on the extra services. secondly,
    you can not own anything in Lichtenstein without a residency permit
    and good luck on that one.  as they say: no further information 
    available....

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3i
Charset: latin1
Comment: No safety this side of the grave. Never was; never will be

iQBVAwUBNNjnjrR8UA6T6u61AQEpvwH6Aia+pitmw1OyX9y5A8D9cWRGMUTTa3EC
wJTuUErBab1sWqJihJ755LHiyqpktBBVMO84TBtJPHnHMJoQqGIXNg==
=fsE0
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Attila T. Hun" 
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 06:29:08 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: The Continued Attack on Cash (Was: "The Right of Anonymity"...)
In-Reply-To: <199802021912.NAA29247@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <19980204.221436.attila@hun.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

on or about 980202:1312, in <199802021912.NAA29247@einstein.ssz.com>, 
    Jim Choate  was purported to have 
    expostulated to perpetuate an opinion:

>>     well, in the first place, you live in Texas where the
>>     attitude to the Feds is rather strong --not as strong as our
>>     attitude in rural Utah where the usual transaction is in
>>     cash.  out here, a Fed is the same as a revenuer in Eastern
>>     Kentucky or Tennessee.  reminds me of the Fed approaching a
>>     child and telling him he'd give him $5 if he took him to his
>>     father (still) --the boy asked for the money up front. when
>>     the Fed asked why, the boy said: "...'cause you aint coming 
>>     back".

>You don't know Texas or Texans very well...

    well, I do, real well  --but you dont know rural Utahns.

    in reality, it's probably a tradeoff.  one of the reasons the
    Democrats use Utah as a dumping ground or national park is we dont
    give them any votes. you also need to remember that the first
    day of deer hunting season here is a holiday --and the number 
    of firearms/capita leads the nation --keep in mind how many kids
    us Mormons have --5 is considered a slacker....

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3i
Charset: latin1
Comment: No safety this side of the grave. Never was; never will be

iQBVAwUBNNjpy7R8UA6T6u61AQH0sgH/d41HFQhKoLNqaIbgOr8Cl/SoPPq22R14
u6U2LuACWTwTfl/0zM1K8B7GmX87Mdx9xPysfeyf/y6d4wSyDwNjKg==
=7Ewg
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 12:36:04 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Fingerprinting...
Message-ID: <199802050435.WAA00790@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Hi,

Check out 'Super Cop' on TLC...


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |       The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate,       |
   |       but the desire to edit somebody elses words.                 |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                  Sign in Ed Barsis' office         |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 12:23:58 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Changing to Moderated Cypherpunks -- How?
In-Reply-To: <199802050343.DAA46984@out5.ibm.net>
Message-ID: <5aueke19w165w@bwalk.dm.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



"James F. Marshall"  writes:

> Too much noise in the unedited list.
>
> How does one change to the moderated list?

You ask John Gilmore and Sandy Sandfart if you can suck their cocks.

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 13:28:26 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Changing to Moderated Cypherpunks -- How? (fwd)
Message-ID: <199802050525.XAA01010@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 00:05:08 -0500 (EST)
> From: Information Security 
> Subject: Re: Changing to Moderated Cypherpunks -- How?

> I'd be glad to handle it.
> 
> The only criteria is to delete Dr. Dim and his nyms.
> 
> Would toad.com give me a mail hook to send back to,
> or am I supposed to setup my own majordomo?

I'll provide you a feed if you find that acceptable, unfortunately I am not
able to provide an account on SSZ to run it off of. My suspicion is that
you'll need a majordomo or similar remailer package (possibly with procmail
for duplicate filtering). I also strongly suggest you get your feed as a CDR
member and not a subscriber to a given list. That way if one node goes down
it won't leave you out in the cold (necessarily). You also probably don't
want to use a system that hosts a CDR node in case that site drops off the
net.

Good luck.


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |       The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate,       |
   |       but the desire to edit somebody elses words.                 |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                  Sign in Ed Barsis' office         |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 13:20:11 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Changing to Moderated Cypherpunks -- How?
Message-ID: <199802050505.AAA01452@panix2.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Dimitry "I've been like this since my prostrate operation" The Dim wrote:
>   You ask John Gilmore and Sandy Sandfart if you can suck their cocks.

I'd be glad to handle it.

The only criteria is to delete Dr. Dim and his nyms.

Would toad.com give me a mail hook to send back to,
or am I supposed to setup my own majordomo?

First: how many people are interested?

I suppose I could split it in two: the other for actual crypto comments.

I'd not suggest it myself, because our concerns have to be
wider than just that.

Regarding everyone in the US being fingerprinted in a sneakily-rolled-out
manner:

CCC...

We can't encrypt our fingerprints, dammit.
---Information Security





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Attila T. Hun" 
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 08:19:33 +0800
To: Information Security 
Subject: Fingerprinting in CA [was Whoa: British SmartCard rollout]
In-Reply-To: <199802040323.WAA16673@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <19980205.000739.attila@hun.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

on or about 980203:2223, in <199802040323.WAA16673@panix2.panix.com>, 
    Information Security  was purported to have 
    expostulated to perpetuate an opinion:

>   How did you CA cypherpunks feel about being fingerprinted?

    well, I would have gone up to Nevada to get a license, but they
    have been doing it longer than CA.  now Utah is doing it....
    it will be universal before long. when I asked in CA if I could
    refuse to be fingerprinted, they said; "sure... as long as you 
    dont want a license"  --real white of 'em.  Utah said basically
    the same thing.

    that and they already have us feeling like.

        when cash is outlawed,
        only outlaws will have cash.


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Version: 2.6.3i
Charset: latin1
Comment: No safety this side of the grave. Never was; never will be

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/jx1FBDn0pydATuRVItBXZvv8rP4RjaRgrBqtM7duPDg2MA0ctgWeQ==
=nWmP
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Kris Carlier 
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 07:39:42 +0800
To: "Attila T. Hun" 
Subject: Re: HUMOR: Bill Gates gets it, PRESERVED for the FUTURE!
In-Reply-To: <19980204.213032.attila@hun.org>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>     made my day!

yeah right...  First of all, Bill Gates was received overhere like a king. 
He talked to a bunch of ministers, the prince, and above all, he got
something that can be considered as the biggest honor one can get: a
whipped cream cake in the face. If you're considered unimportant, you
don't get one in the face at all. 

I think he didn't mind though: BG signed a contract with Mr Vanden Brande,
the Flemish number one minister, for the PC Kadee project: M$ will
-happily- install 40.000 (fourty thousand !!) PC's with their software on
it. The project is for K12 and up (pre-college) schools. M$ will not
donate this of course, we in Belgium are dumb enough to gladly PAY (a
so-called reduced price) for this kind of joke. 

So no, I'm not too happy at all about this incident. Would have been
better if he didn't get this kind of attention. 
                                                  
kr=


                   \\\___///
                  \\  - -  //
                   (  @ @  )
 +---------------oOOo-(_)-oOOo-------------+
 |     kris carlier - carlier@iguana.be    |
 | Hiroshima 45, Tsjernobyl 86, Windows 95 |
 | Linux, the choice of a GNU gener8ion    |
 |            SMS: +32-75-61.43.05         |
 +------------------------Oooo-------------+
                  oooO   (   )
                 (   )    ) /
                  \ (    (_/
                   \_)








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Site.Feedback@FT.com
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 11:52:26 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: FT.com Registration
Message-ID: <9802050344.AA44748@svr1en0.ft.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



This mail is to confirm your registration with FT.com, the Financial Times' web site.

Please keep this note of your username and password in a safe place to look up should you forget them.

If you have any problems getting into and around the site at any time please first try our help pages at http://www.ft.com/about/index.htm . These are open pages which don't require you to log in. If after reading them you still have difficulties, then contact us by email at site.feedback@ft.com .

User name - hackworth
Password - writecode

The Internet Team @ FT.com.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Roger J Jones 
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 22:25:34 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199802051403.IAA12716@pc1824.ibpinc.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




> > > I'm here to ask
> > > As you'll soon see
> > > Did you grope
> > > Miss Lewinsky?
> > > Did you grope her
> > > in your house?
> > > Did you grope
> > > Beneath her blouse?
> > > 
> > > I did not do that
> > > Here nor there
> > > I did not do that
> > > Anywhere!
> > > I did not do that
> > > Near nor far
> > > I did not do that
> > > Starr-You-Are.
> > > 
> > > Did you smile?
> > > Did you flirt?
> > > Did you peek
> > > Beneath her skirt?
> > > And did you tell
> > > The girl to lie
> > > When called upon
> > > To testify?
> > > 
> > > I do not like you
> > > Starr-You-Are
> > > I think that you
> > > Have gone too far.
> > > I will not answer
> > > Anymore
> > > Perhaps I will go
> > > Start a war!
> > > 
> > > The public's easy
> > > To distract
> > > When bombs are
> > > Falling on Iraq!
> > > 
> > 
> 







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 22:23:53 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: update.357 (fwd)
Message-ID: <199802051415.IAA01650@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 11:01:53 -0500 (EST)
> From: physnews@aip.org (AIP listserver)
> Subject: update.357
> 
> A QUANTUM TUNNELING TRANSISTOR, an on-off switch
> that exploits an electron's ability to pass through normally
> impenetrable barriers, has been built by Sandia researchers (Jerry
> Simmons, 505-844-8402), opening possibilities for record-speed
> transistors that can be mass-produced with current nanotechnology. 
>  In their device, the researchers control the flow of electrons
> between two GaAs layers (each only 15 nm thick) separated by an
> AlGaAs barrier (12 nm).  Although the electrons in GaAs
> ordinarily do not have enough energy to enter the AlGaAs barrier,
> the layers are so thin (comparable in size to the electron
> wavelength) that the electrons, considered as waves rather than
> particles, can spread into the barrier and, with an appropriate
> voltage applied, out the other side.  In the process, the electron
> waves do not collide with impurity atoms, in contrast to a
> traditional transistor's particlelike electrons, which are slowed
> down by these collisions.  Transistors that switch on and off a
> trillion times per second--5 times faster than the current record--are
> possible with this approach.  Although quantum tunneling
> transistors were first built in the late 1980s, it was originally
> infeasible to mass-produce them.  Previous researchers engraved
> the ultrathin GaAs and AlGaAs features side-by-side on a surface,
> something hard to do reliably with present-day lithography. 
> Therefore the Sandia researchers stacked the features vertically, by
> using readily available techniques such as molecular beam epitaxy
> which can deposit layers of material with single-atom thicknesses. 
> Having made quantum-tunneling memory devices and digital logic
> gates operating at 77 K, the researchers expect room-temperature
> devices in the next year.  (J.A. Simmons et al., upcoming article
> in Applied Physics Letters; figure at
> www.aip.org/physnews/graphics)
> 

[text deleted]


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |       The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate,       |
   |       but the desire to edit somebody elses words.                 |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                  Sign in Ed Barsis' office         |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: mark@unicorn.com
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 00:36:19 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: the best justice money can buy --Lessig
Message-ID: <886695836.699.193.133.230.33@unicorn.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Atilla wrote:
>no, in fact, if there were a free market remedy for M$'
>monopoly, I would be in favour of it --and there is _no_
>free market remedy and failure to act promptly 
>conceivably wipe out all, or virtually all, of the 
>viable competitors.

Of course there's a free-market remedy for Microsoft; eliminate copyright. If
anyone can copy Microsoft software for free, it would be forced to compete
on real benefits rather than installed base.

This is why I have no sympathy with those who claim Microsoft is the victim
in the anti-trust suits, even though I'm opposed to such action in general; 
those whose profits depend on the 800-pound gorilla can hardly complain when 
it falls on them.

    Mark





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Burnes 
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 00:46:43 +0800
To: "Attila T. Hun" 
Subject: Re: Fingerprinting in CA
In-Reply-To: <19980205.000739.attila@hun.org>
Message-ID: <34D9EBBB.EF470B19@ssds.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Attila T. Hun wrote:
> 
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> 
> on or about 980203:2223, in <199802040323.WAA16673@panix2.panix.com>,
>     Information Security  was purported to have
>     expostulated to perpetuate an opinion:
> 
> >   How did you CA cypherpunks feel about being fingerprinted?
> 
>     well, I would have gone up to Nevada to get a license, but they
>     have been doing it longer than CA.  now Utah is doing it....
>     it will be universal before long. when I asked in CA if I could
>     refuse to be fingerprinted, they said; "sure... as long as you
>     dont want a license"  --real white of 'em.  Utah said basically
>     the same thing.
> 

If your interested in this problem, I believe that the Georgia
wing
of the EFF is mounting a campaign against fingerprinting on
driver's
licenses.

Can't remember the URL for it though...

jim burnes





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 00:41:09 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: the best justice money can buy --Lessig (fwd)
Message-ID: <199802051634.KAA02262@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 08:23:58 -0800 (PST)
> From: mark@unicorn.com
> Subject: Re: the best justice money can buy --Lessig

> Of course there's a free-market remedy for Microsoft; eliminate copyright. If
> anyone can copy Microsoft software for free, it would be forced to compete
> on real benefits rather than installed base.

If there were no copyright nobody would have any reason to market software
or much else for that matter. I would predict that much of the technology
and infrastructure we have now wouldn't exist. It would also stiffle
creativity and new methodologies because there would be no profit in it to
recoup development costs. Those who would survive in such a market would be
the 800-lb gorillas because only they would have the resources to squash the
smaller companies.

Free markets monopolize.


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |       The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate,       |
   |       but the desire to edit somebody elses words.                 |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                  Sign in Ed Barsis' office         |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Rabid Wombat 
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 14:12:25 +0800
To: "Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM" 
Subject: Re: the best justice money can buy --Lessig (fwd)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





On Thu, 5 Feb 1998, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote:

> Jim Choate  writes:
> 
> > 
> > Forwarded message:
> > 
> > > Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 08:23:58 -0800 (PST)
> > > From: mark@unicorn.com
> > > Subject: Re: the best justice money can buy --Lessig
> > 
> > > Of course there's a free-market remedy for Microsoft; eliminate copyright. 
> > > anyone can copy Microsoft software for free, it would be forced to compete
> > > on real benefits rather than installed base.
> > 
> > If there were no copyright nobody would have any reason to market software
> > or much else for that matter. I would predict that much of the technology

[SNIP]

> 
> Software development seems to be thriving in countries that aren't very keen
> on enforcing copyright laws - do you care to explain why?

Would you care to explain where? 

There's a big difference between a "flourishing" market for custom,
in-house-only software (especially in a language that is not high on the
list for US developers), and a commercial software market consisting of
widely distributed applications. The in-house stuff doesn't need copyright
protection; it's never allowed out, and even if it were, what are the odds
it could be used by others without access to source code?  Custom software
is more a matter of selling a service than a "product", and it's a lot
harder to "bootleg" services. 

What software products can you come up with that have the same level of 
market penetration as those engineered in the US or Canada? How many of 
those are from nations that do not honor copyright?


> > 
> > Free markets monopolize.
> Hmm... There's no copyright on perfumes.  There are market leaders in perfumes,
> but no monopoly; hardly even an olygopoly.
> 

That's because the primary product is the image built by advertising, not 
the scent which is often fairly accurately duplicated (not that I'd know 
- my favorite scent is hallertau).

One of my professors defined advertising as "creating demand for that 
which is inherently worthless."





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 21:21:15 +0800
To: guy@panix.com
Subject: Re: Changing to Moderated Cypherpunks -- How?
In-Reply-To: <199802050505.AAA01452@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <199802051047.KAA01376@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Information Security 
> I'd be glad to handle it.
> 
> The only criteria is to delete Dr. Dim and his nyms.

How are you going to recognize Dimitri's nyms if he has any.

Adam





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: sunder 
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 00:53:33 +0800
To: "James F. Marshall" 
Subject: Re: Changing to Moderated Cypherpunks -- How?
In-Reply-To: <199802050343.DAA46984@out5.ibm.net>
Message-ID: <34D9E920.7BF3739B@brainlink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



James F. Marshall wrote:
> Too much noise in the unedited list.
> How does one change to the moderated list?

Hi there, as requested, here's some info about the filtered cypherpunks
list which I run (by hand with the help of a couple of mailbots)

This list is NOW running from: sunder@sundernet.com
GZIPped versions of the digests are available from:

        http://www.sundernet.com/fdigest.html

Basically, I use the 'bots to keep the list of recipients, then forward
any message to this list of usernames which I find interesting, and
usually noise-free... 

Since, I do this by hand, AND since there is no majordomo mailing list
software, and since I get a lot of mail, it's a good idea to make sure the
subject of any messages you send to me stand out.  i.e. make the subject
line: 
 
    "***000 Personal junk mail for the human, not the bots ***"

(The 0's are there to make sure that when Pine sorts the messages on this 
side, they come up on top, making sure I'll see them immediatly.)

There is no automated filtering of any sort...   Whatever message I find 
to be interesting, news-worthy, or technical (theoretical crypto, actual 
code, etc) gets handed over to the bots, which send it to this list.

If you use some sort of filtering program to move messages to a folder, 
look for the string "FCPUNX:" (without quotes) in the subject field.
 
There will usually be a propagation delay of one day to a week days -
sometimes as long as two weeks between the messages on the actual
cypherpunks list, and this filtered one.  This is because I may not always
get the chance to log in every day, and also because I may have to wade
through tons of noise/spam/flames from the real list. :-)

Occasionally, if I see something interesting from another list (such as
Cyber Rights, coderpunks, etc) I will forward it here if I feel that it
pertains to Cypherpunk interests, or that you'd like to see it. 

You should unsubscribe yourself from the real list by sending an
"unsubscribe cypherpunks" message to majordomo@toad.com - that is send a
message with no subject and just that single line - no signature either,
so as to unsubscribe.  - Unless you wish to continue to receive messages
from the real list as well as copies of those messages from here. :-)

All filtering is again according to my whims so if you dislike what I 
send you, sorry.  I might eventually work something out where this list 
will be broken up into many tiny lists so you'd subscribe to whatever 
subjects you're interested in.

This is a free service, no strings attached, just tons o'mail, but less 
mail than the unfiltered list...

Also note that the bots I run may sometimes be slightly buggy and may do 
unexpected weird things.  Appologies in advance if this happens.  But 
please by all means do report any such runaway bot occurances.

If you wish to unsubscribe yourself from this list, just send a message 
with the subject "unsubscribe fcpunx" (no quotes) and the next time I log 
in, one of the bots will handle the ubsubscribe.

You can re-subscribe yourself as many times as you like, you'll only get
one copy of each message, but as many copies of the request response as
you've sent.The 'bots hone in on your address and send mail only there, so
subscribe yourself from whatever account you want to receive mail. 

If by accident you subscribe from two different machines, the bots won't 
know the difference and you'll get two copies of each filtered message, 
so be careful.

This also means that you can only unsubscribe yourself from the same
address you subscribed from.

To get help, send a message with the subject "help fcpunx."

To subscribe yourself (if you see this, you are subscribed) send a 
message with the *SUBJECT* "subscribe fcpunx"

NOTE: THE BOTS ONLY RESPOND TO THE SUBJECT LINE, NOT TO TEXT IN THE BODY 
OF YOUR MESSAGE!

The bots only look at your message's subject and your mailing address so 
it doesn't matter what you put in the body.

Whenever the 'bots honor a request from you, you'll see a response mailed 
from them (under my name.)

Since the bots are only active when I log in and run them by hand, the 
message acknowledging your request may take several days to get to you.

*ALL COMMANDS MUST BE SENT IN THE SUBJECT OF THE MESSAGE!  The body 
(text) of the message are ignored.

Commands available:

 subscribe fcpunx           - subscribes you to the list and you are 
                              visible to fcpunx who requests
 subscribe invisible fcpunx - subscribe but don't let others know

 digest fcpunx              - receive the digest version (visibly)
 digest invisible fcpunx    - receive the digest invisibly

 unsubscribe fcpunx         - unsubscribe from the list or digest
 undigest fcpunx

 who fcpunx                 - receive a list of (visible) subscribed users
                                * THIS IS DISABLED CURRENTLY FOR PRIVACY
                                  PROTECTIONS OF THE SUBSCRIBERS ON THIS LIST *

 help fcpunx                - sends a help file (you're looking at it)

If you're already subscribed to the list and want to switch to the digest 
version, you can do this by sending a digest fcpunx message; the reverse 
is also true.  Notice that you cannot subscribe to both the digest and 
the list.  Sorry.  If you'd like that feature either use two different 
accounts to receive them, or complain to me and I'll add it in.

The unsubscribe and undigest commands do the same thing, they take you 
off the list no matter which version you're subscribed to.

Note:

        I do not claim any responsability for the content, fitness to a purpose
        or usefulness of any of the messages forwarded to, archived to, or
stored
        on this web site.  The responsability of these messages lies solely on
        the shoulders of their respective authors.

        No attempt is made at censoring this information for or from a legal
        standpoint.  This information is relayed to you as an expression of
        the First Amendment of the Constitution of the United States of
America.
        Certain restrictions may apply depending on your locale, the political
        nature of your respective governments, etc.  Any copyrighted
information
        forwarded by this filtering service is the property of its owners
and/or
        creators.  The original senders of these messages are responsible for
        their content, etc.  This filtering services disclaims all such
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        Should you take offense to any of the messages forwarded by this
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        take it up with the original posters of the messages.  You may also
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        means acceptance to these terms and disclaimers.

        
=============================================================================
 + ^ + |  Ray Arachelian    |FL|       KAOS KERAUNOS KYBERNETOS      |==/|\==
  \|/  |sunder@brainlink.com|UL|__Nothing_is_true,_all_is_permitted!_|=/\|/\=
<--+-->| ------------------ |CG|What part of 'Congress shall make no |=\/|\/=
  /|\  | Just Say "No" to   |KA|law abridging the freedom of speech' |==\|/==
 + v + | Janet Reno & GAK   |AK|        do you not understand?       |=======
===================http://www.brainlink.org/~sunder/=========================
           ActiveX! ActiveX! Format Hard drive? Just say yes!





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Burnes 
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 05:49:32 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: the best justice/kinds of monopolies
In-Reply-To: <199802051634.KAA02262@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <34DA3157.1FF4FA7A@ssds.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate wrote:
> 
> Forwarded message:
> 
> > Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 08:23:58 -0800 (PST)
> > From: mark@unicorn.com
> > Subject: Re: the best justice money can buy --Lessig
> 
> > Of course there's a free-market remedy for Microsoft; eliminate copyright. If
> > anyone can copy Microsoft software for free, it would be forced to compete
> > on real benefits rather than installed base.
> 
> If there were no copyright nobody would have any reason to market software
> or much else for that matter. I would predict that much of the technology
> and infrastructure we have now wouldn't exist.

Thats pretty obvious.  I'm usually the last person to defend
Microsoft, but
cancelling copyright is throwing the baby out with the
proverbial bathwater.

There are a couple of obvious free market solutions.  The first
that comes
to mind is to stop buying Microsoft product.  This needs to be
restated because
even though obvious, it has a number of important follow-on
conclusions.

(1) There are other usable operating systems. (linux, mac-os,
os/2)
(2) There are other usable applications. (applix, macwrite?,
whatever)

Why won't people stop buying microsoft product?

(1) FUD helped along by a microsoft reality-altering marketing
budget
(2) The *applications* they write are sometimes quite usable.
(3) Their applications only work on *their* OS (mostly)?  Why is
that?
(4) Their OS, even considering its questionable quality has,
until this
    point, hornswaggled a bunch of developers because its the
*defacto*
    desktop applications API.  Why that is the case is probably
a topic
    for endless speculation -- though it probably comes down to
some
    version of the "stack 'em deep and sell 'em cheap"
philosophy -- 
    something that Apple still hasn't learned.

(5) ...and most importantly of all...it hasn't become painfull
enough
    yet to stop purchasing Microsoft software.

> 
> Free markets monopolize.
> 

Hmmm.  Thats a rather sweeping generalization.  Perhaps it would
be more
enlightening to discuss the nature of monopolies.  It is rarely
possible
to enforce a monopoly that isn't a natural monopoly.  A company
will tend
to keep a lion's share of the market as long as continued
investment
in more efficient production gives them greater market share --
bringing
you cheaper goods and larger quantities of them.  At that point
nobody cares
because quality goods are being sold as low prices.  When that
breaks down
all natural monopolies start to crumble or revert to their
previous market
share.

Having said that, let me follow it with a big "all other things
being equal".

One of the reasons NT became popular is because they priced
their NT
server not "by the client" as Novell used to, but at a
flat-price (if
memory serves -- which it is doing more infrequently these days
;-)

In doing so Novell's market share took a serious hit.  To some
extent
I say good riddance.  Novell server's IMOHO suck as a server
architecture
(not to mention truly horrible and snotty tech support).

Novell didn't react quickly enough and lost tremendous market
share.  Are
we suggesting that Novell be protected by the US Justice
Department?
I certainly hope not.  You are welcome to go back to those days.

The only other kinds of monopolies are cartels, and government
enforced
monopolies of both the public and private kind (the latter being
the most
heinous).

Cartels always collapse because one of the partners will
eventually see
the increasing profits to be made by breaking the cartel.  When
this happens
the company that breaks the cartel is the winner and the last
one to leave
the cartel may well collapse financially.  If members of a
Cartel get
together and use guns to prevent the breakup of the cartel then
that
is a lot more like a government enforced private monopoly -- bad
news.

Government-enforced public monopolies like the US Post office
and public
education are wasteful, out of touch with their markets (because
of
the lack of competitive price feedback) and thus inefficient. 
They
have no valid function in a free society and are a waste of
taxpayer
dollars.  The USPS will tell you that everything is hunky-dory
because
they don't use taxpayer dollars.  What they don't tell you is
that the
difference between the price you pay for their stamps and what
you would
in a free market is your tax.  (this and the strange tendency of
workers
to "go postal" -- you rarely hear about FedEX employees going on
an
AK47 rampage, must be the water ;-)

Goverment-enforced private monopolies teeter dangerously close
to the
pure definition of fascism.  Fascism, from the latin "fascia"
means
"to bind together" (perhaps you remember the "fascia" tissue
from
high-school biology class during dissection of frogs, cats and
other
unlucky animals).  In this case they bind a force monopoly with
a
yet-to-be-named monopoly.  Classic examples of
Fascism^h^h^h^h^h^h^h government
enforced-private-monopolies in the US are the Federal Reserve
System, the 
AMA, and the local Bar associations.  Why is this?  All these
monopolies
depend on FUD and govt to enforce their services.  "What would
happen if we didn't
regulate xyz is that all hell would break loose and many people
would
lead lives of horrible desperation.  'There oughta be a law!'
etc...blah blah..."
You know the drill.

Now that we have a perspective on monopolies, perhaps we can
take
a look a microsoft.  Microsoft is not a force monopoly
(usually), its not
run by the government (thank god), it doesn't appear to be a
cartel
(usually) so unless further information comes in it looks like a
natural monopoly.  What does it take to undo a natural monoply?

Build something cheaper, better and more reliable.

Its just possible (and this might be a stretch, but only by a
little)
that Linux, Free Netscape Sources, Java etc might acheive this.

Certainly Apache is more popular than any other webserver.

How you come up with a new product in this type of market
without
M$ "re-inventing it" and giving it away is anyone's guess.

(1) Hope that Linux/Scape/Java/KDE do something big
(2) Write a Win95/NT compatible operating system that is
    faster and cheaper.  If you can clone a Pentium, you
    can clone Windoze.  (visions of a QNX like OS with Win32
    API dance in my head).  A GPL'd VSTa-based Win32 OS
    would be pretty amazing.  This would be necessary because
    games are a big market and the Linux kernel just doesn't
    have what it takes to do realtime without a major hack.
    How about VSTa/a free DOS emulator/Wine.  If Sun would
    fund this effort it could take a lot of wind out of
    M$ sails.  Probably more than Java.  McNeally would have
    to hop down from his high-horse.

    When will this happen?  When the market gets tired of
    M$ practices and some lucky competitor comes to the
    fore.  Until then there is no devine right to a percentage
    of the operating system market share.

We can only code and hope.

(donning flame retardant vest)

jim burnes





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 09:16:38 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: the best justice money can buy --Lessig (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199802051634.KAA02262@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate  writes:

> 
> Forwarded message:
> 
> > Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 08:23:58 -0800 (PST)
> > From: mark@unicorn.com
> > Subject: Re: the best justice money can buy --Lessig
> 
> > Of course there's a free-market remedy for Microsoft; eliminate copyright. 
> > anyone can copy Microsoft software for free, it would be forced to compete
> > on real benefits rather than installed base.
> 
> If there were no copyright nobody would have any reason to market software
> or much else for that matter. I would predict that much of the technology
> and infrastructure we have now wouldn't exist. It would also stiffle
> creativity and new methodologies because there would be no profit in it to
> recoup development costs. Those who would survive in such a market would be
> the 800-lb gorillas because only they would have the resources to squash the
> smaller companies.

Software development seems to be thriving in countries that aren't very keen
on enforcing copyright laws - do you care to explain why?
> 
> Free markets monopolize.
Hmm... There's no copyright on perfumes.  There are market leaders in perfumes,
but no monopoly; hardly even an olygopoly.

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 08:20:43 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Feds warm spammers [CNN]
Message-ID: <199802060018.SAA03566@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

>                       FEDS WARN SUSPECTED E-MAIL SCAMMERS
>                                        
>      graphic February 5, 1998
>      Web posted at: 6:51 p.m. EST (2351 GMT)
>      
>      WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Federal Trade Commission and postal
>      inspectors have issued more than 1,000 warnings to businesses
>      suspected of sending illegal junk mail and operating shady
>      moneymaking schemes over the Internet.

[text deleted]


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |       The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate,       |
   |       but the desire to edit somebody elses words.                 |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                  Sign in Ed Barsis' office         |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 09:17:46 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Changing to Moderated Cypherpunks -- How?
In-Reply-To: <199802051047.KAA01376@server.eternity.org>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Adam Back  writes:

>
> Information Security 
> > I'd be glad to handle it.
> >
> > The only criteria is to delete Dr. Dim and his nyms.
>
> How are you going to recognize Dimitri's nyms if he has any.

Guy Polis thinks that anyone smarter than him (and that's 99.99% of the
population) is my tentacle.  He thinks everything on this list except
him and Timmy May is my tentacle, including you too, Adam.

Guy Polis (guy@panix.com, eviljay@bway.net) is a pedophile child
molester who was fired from his consulting position at Salomon Brothers
after he was caught masturbating in his cubicle at the child pornography
JPEGs that he downloaded from the Internet.

In retaliation, Guy Polis spammed the firewalls mailing list with megabytes
of e-mail logs that he "intercepted" at Salomon Brothers, and accused
several of his former co-workers and supervisors of various crimes.

As far as I can determine, Guy Polis has been unemployed since the time
he was fired from Salomon.  If anyone knows otherwise, please let me know.

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 09:57:31 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: the best justice money can buy --Lessig (fwd)
Message-ID: <199802060155.TAA03984@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Subject: Re: the best justice money can buy --Lessig (fwd)
> From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
> Date: Thu, 05 Feb 98 16:26:45 EST

> > > Of course there's a free-market remedy for Microsoft; eliminate copyright. 
> > > anyone can copy Microsoft software for free, it would be forced to compete
> > > on real benefits rather than installed base.
> > 
> > If there were no copyright nobody would have any reason to market software
> > or much else for that matter. I would predict that much of the technology
> > and infrastructure we have now wouldn't exist. It would also stiffle
> > creativity and new methodologies because there would be no profit in it to
> > recoup development costs. Those who would survive in such a market would be
> > the 800-lb gorillas because only they would have the resources to squash the
> > smaller companies.
> 
> Software development seems to be thriving in countries that aren't very keen
> on enforcing copyright laws - do you care to explain why?

Oh yeah...

Software development is a long way from selling software, not the same
animal at all.

I mean when I go down to the dozen computer stores within a mile or so of my
house I am truly deluged by software from countries outside of the US and
Canada. I mean we have all heard of the Indian and Bulgarian software
billionares haven't we? And all those folks in Turkey just rolling in
cash...

Further, who do the majority of these folks who actualy make a reasonable
living work for either directly or under contract? Large US and Eurpean
countries thats who.

That's why those folks can make a living developing (not selling) software.

> > Free markets monopolize.

> Hmm... There's no copyright on perfumes.  There are market leaders in perfumes,
> but no monopoly; hardly even an olygopoly.

I can tell how often you buy perfume, the ones I buy for my girlfriend
certainly have a little 'c' on them... And as to the number of companies
that are actualy developing perfume versus reselling it under their own
house brands...there might be a couple dozen succesful (say stay in business
more than 5 years) in the whole world and I would go so far as to hypothesize
that if one were motivated to plot the number of companies per year over the
last say 50 years you would see the number go *down*.



    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |       The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate,       |
   |       but the desire to edit somebody elses words.                 |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                  Sign in Ed Barsis' office         |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 12:12:57 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Free-market monopolization features...
Message-ID: <199802060335.VAA04271@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Hi,

This is the theory in its current working version:

An unregulated (free-market) economy will inherently monopolize when, but
not necessarily only if, the following are present:

 -  the market is saturated, in other words the number of consumers at
    any given time are equal to or less than the service providers ability
    to provide that service (or resource). This means the long-term survival
    of firms is a function of retained market share and raw resource share
    control/ownership.

 -  the technology and/or start-up costs are high in material and
    intellectual factors. This minimizes the potential for new providers
    to start up. Providers will also require non-disclosure and other
    mechanisms to reduce sharing of information and cross-communications
    except under controlled conditions. Expect an increase in certifications
    and implimentation standards required to do business with the more
    succesful of these providers.

 -  an individual or small group of service providers have a small but
    distinct efficiency advantage in technology, manufacturing, or
    marketing. Over a long-enough time this market advantage will grow
    and as a result widen the 'technology gap' between firms.

 -  expect the most efficient firms to share their profit with the
    critical intellectual contributors. This further reduces the
    problem of cross-communication and new provider start-up.

 -  expect to see the more successful providers to join in co-ops with
    the less succesful providers. This will be under the surreptitous
    goal of 'developing technology'. It's actual goal will be to cause
    these smaller firms to commit resources to such enterprises. As soon
    as it is strategicaly advantagous the primary providers will break-off
    the co-op. This has the effect of further reducing the ability of the
    smaller providers to react in a timely manner to market changes or
    develop new technology due to resource starvation.

 -  expect to see the less efficient providers to combine in an effort
    to reap the benefits of shared market share and resources. Unless
    this partnering provides a more efficient model and there is sufficient
    time for that efficiency to develop these new providers will eventualy
    fail or be joined with other providers.

 -  expect to see the primary provider buy those less efficient providers
    that don't fail completely. These purchases will be as a result of
    some new or unexpected technology that will significantly increase
    the market share of the primary provider -or- it will be with the
    goal of eliminating this secondary technology and forcing those
    market shares to do without or use the primary providers technology.



    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |       The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate,       |
   |       but the desire to edit somebody elses words.                 |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                  Sign in Ed Barsis' office         |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 12:45:14 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: New Credit Rating System Coming [CNN]
Message-ID: <199802060405.WAA04465@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

>                       NEW CREDIT RATING SYSTEM ON HORIZON
>                                        
>      graphic February 5, 1998
>      Web posted at: 2:38 p.m. EST (1938 GMT)
>      
>      NEW YORK (AP) -- Within months, retailers will be able to use a new
>      computerized credit-rating system to decide not only whether they'll
>      take your check or debit card, but how big a check you can write.
>      
>      Banks will be able to use the system to determine whether they will
>      let you open a checking account, and what kind of fees you will pay.
>      
>      Deluxe Corp., the nation's biggest check printer, has joined Fair,
>      Isaac & Co., a credit scoring company, and Acxiom Corp., a data
>      warehouse, to create the system for rating a merchant's risk of
>      accepting checks and debit cards.


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |       The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate,       |
   |       but the desire to edit somebody elses words.                 |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                  Sign in Ed Barsis' office         |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 12:36:48 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Free-market monopolization features... (fwd)
Message-ID: <199802060436.WAA04618@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Hi,

I left one out...

Forwarded message:

> From: Jim Choate 
> Subject: Free-market monopolization features...
> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 21:35:16 -0600 (CST)

> An unregulated (free-market) economy will inherently monopolize when, but
> not necessarily only if, the following are present:

 -  initialy prices for services will be low to promote purchasing but
    as providers obtain larger market shares their prices will increase
    over time and out of step with inflation and other market forces in
    order to widen the profit gap. The strategy is one of 'use it or
    starve'.


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |       The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate,       |
   |       but the desire to edit somebody elses words.                 |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                  Sign in Ed Barsis' office         |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Frantz 
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 16:05:19 +0800
To: Jim Burnes 
Subject: Re: the best justice/kinds of monopolies
In-Reply-To: <199802051634.KAA02262@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 1:38 PM -0800 2/5/98, in a generally right on post, Jim Burnes wrote:
>(this and the strange tendency of
>workers
>to "go postal" -- you rarely hear about FedEX employees going on
>an
>AK47 rampage, must be the water ;-)

No, the problem is the US Postal Service's willingness to tolerate assholes
as managers.  There may be an argument for pinning that on the government
monopoly aspects of the USPS as well.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz       | Market research shows the  | Periwinkle -- Consulting
(408)356-8506     | average customer has one   | 16345 Englewood Ave.
frantz@netcom.com | teat and one testicle.     | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "WebWarrior3@InfoWar.Com" 
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 14:31:06 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: RE Fingerprints and EF Georgia
Message-ID: <34DAABBC.3BCF1ED5@InfoWar.Com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Yup,
EF-Georgia
http://www.efga.org
has had an ongoing project dealing with fingerprinting for DL's

This is in reply to Jim Burns' post:
"If your interested in this problem, I believe that the Georgia
wing of the EFF is mounting a campaign against fingerprinting on
driver's licenses.

Can't remember the URL for it though..."

EF Georgia has consistantly had some mighty fine information on their
mail list, still on topic too for the most part.

Scott R. Brower
Electronic Frontiers Florida
http://www.efflorida.org
BTW...neither EFGA nor EFFlorida, or as far as I know, any other EF
group... is affiliated with EFF in any way but certain principals which
bind us together in a common cause.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: mail 
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 11:20:00 +0800
To: "Random Q. Hacker" 
Subject: RebaNews
Message-ID: <199802060306.WAA00901@www.video-collage.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Reba will join Rosie O'Donnell as her special co-host February 16, as The Rosie O'Donnell Show continues its broadcasts from Los Angeles.  In addition to pulling co-hosting duties, Reba will also perform "What If," her tribute song to the Salvation Army. 

Fresh off her wins at both the Peoples Choice Awards (which she hosted and won Favorite Female Musical Performer) and the American Music Awards (Favorite Female Country Artist), the February 16th appearance marks the second time Reba has appeared on The Rosie O'Donnell Show.

Later this month, Reba will begin work on the CBS-TV movie, "Forever and Always," tentatively scheduled to air in May.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: mark@unicorn.com
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 19:22:46 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: the best justice money can buy --Lessig (fwd)
Message-ID: <886763578.16480.193.133.230.33@unicorn.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate (ravage@ssz.com) wrote:
>If there were no copyright nobody would have any reason to market software
>or much else for that matter.

So I presume that Linux doesn't exist[1]? And, for that matter, I make my
living writing software which is given away for free...

    Mark

[1] Yes, I'm aware the GPL uses copyright to enforce its conditions, but
it's copright-free in the important sense: anyone can copy Linux and use 
it with no fear of black ninjas at their door.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Attila T. Hun" 
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 13:24:02 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: New Credit Rating System Coming [CNN]
In-Reply-To: <199802060405.WAA04465@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <19980206.045903.attila@hun.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

on or about 980205:2205, in <199802060405.WAA04465@einstein.ssz.com>, 
    Jim Choate  was purported to have 
    expostulated to perpetuate an opinion:

>                       NEW CREDIT RATING SYSTEM ON HORIZON
>                                        
>      graphic February 5, 1998
>      Web posted at: 2:38 p.m. EST (1938 GMT)
>      
>      NEW YORK (AP) -- Within months, retailers will be able to use a new
>      computerized credit-rating system to decide not only whether they'll
>      take your check or debit card, but how big a check you can write.
>      
>      Banks will be able to use the system to determine whether they will
>      let you open a checking account, and what kind of fees you will pay.
>      
>      Deluxe Corp., the nation's biggest check printer, has joined Fair,
>      Isaac & Co., a credit scoring company, and Acxiom Corp., a data
>      warehouse, to create the system for rating a merchant's risk of
>      accepting checks and debit cards.
>
    so where is the First Virtual Bank of Cyberspace? let's get crackin'

    basically, this says I can not write a check against an available
    balance that has not been overnight posted. when TTI (transaction
    technology), a CitiBank division in Santa Monica, started working on
    the ATM implementations in the mid-70, all the last, bad crop of hired
    guns were contracting --they were paying 50-80/hr _then_ for high
    end --we all took there money and speculated that eventually there
    a) would be no cash; and b) checks would be castrated --or, if you
    did not have plastic, you did not eat as big brother wanted to know
    what you had for dinner--  yup, sounds just like cybercredits --except
    for the audit trail fed directly to the IRS who precomputed your tax
    for you-- and took it out of your account with or without your     
    permission.

    well, how close are we getting to what those of us working on it in
    the mid-70s feared?

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3i
Charset: latin1
Comment: No safety this side of the grave. Never was; never will be

iQBVAwUBNNqbr7R8UA6T6u61AQGscAH/cDmpNgdaMuZAdB+bBZRXzz5EjM40RhBD
wgolht1512aKcXCfXv0LmNbsIPwv6fFCKpldrMyFag0RRdgt+qslUQ==
=UvQI
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Attila T. Hun" 
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 13:44:09 +0800
To: Jim Burnes 
Message-ID: <19980206.052451.attila@hun.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

on or about 980205:1438, in <34DA3157.1FF4FA7A@ssds.com>, 
    Jim Burnes  was purported to have 
    expostulated to perpetuate an opinion:

>Jim Choate wrote:
>> 
>> Forwarded message:
>> 
>> > Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 08:23:58 -0800 (PST)
>> > From: mark@unicorn.com
>> > Subject: Re: the best justice money can buy --Lessig
>> 
[snip]

>so unless further information comes in it looks like a
>natural monopoly.  What does it take to undo a natural monoply?

>Build something cheaper, better and more reliable.

>Its just possible (and this might be a stretch, but only by a little)
>that Linux, Free Netscape Sources, Java etc might acheive this.
>Certainly Apache is more popular than any other webserver.

>How you come up with a new product in this type of market without
>M$ "re-inventing it" and giving it away is anyone's guess.

>(1) Hope that Linux/Scape/Java/KDE do something big
>(2) Write a Win95/NT compatible operating system that is
>    faster and cheaper.  If you can clone a Pentium, you
>    can clone Windoze.  (visions of a QNX like OS with Win32
>    API dance in my head).  A GPL'd VSTa-based Win32 OS
>    would be pretty amazing.  This would be necessary because
>    games are a big market and the Linux kernel just doesn't
>    have what it takes to do realtime without a major hack.
>    How about VSTa/a free DOS emulator/Wine.  If Sun would
>    fund this effort it could take a lot of wind out of
>    M$ sails.  Probably more than Java.  McNeally would have
>    to hop down from his high-horse.

>    When will this happen?  When the market gets tired of
>    M$ practices and some lucky competitor comes to the
>    fore.  Until then there is no devine right to a percentage
>    of the operating system market share.

>We can only code and hope.

>(donning flame retardant vest)
>jim burnes

    dont need a flame retardent vest for my direction. I agree in theory
    that all it takes is a better product --unless the 800 lb gorilla
    steals it, borrows it, whatever and puts it out for free which they
    have been know to do on more than one occasion.

    and, the fact M$ has such enormous leverage in the market to command
    the pole position for any product they promote (even vapourware), is
    why society does have a responsibility to its members to level the
    playing field.  until the sheeple stop following the Judas to the
    Micro$lop slaughter house, the law must finally step in and break it
    up --or as Orrin Hatch said: "if M$ does monopolize the net, look for
    an "Federal Internet Commission" --using the law to surgically dismember
    M$ into logical divisions is one thing --living with another regulatory 
    commission is another, and certainly not very "tasty".

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3i
Charset: latin1
Comment: No safety this side of the grave. Never was; never will be

iQBVAwUBNNqhIrR8UA6T6u61AQErYgIAlBOGfnn/R9IuZD42Yl2hRb2amKY8049s
bLaD3SdJd4ulqoTkvl/UiM3hF6vhs3bbe0N1PN4xpZrgW5GxSCoGPA==
=B0dD
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 08:27:28 +0800
To: Information Security 
Subject: Re: Fingerprinting in CA [was Whoa: British SmartCard rollout]
In-Reply-To: <199802040323.WAA16673@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980206074009.0085b8c0@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>>   How did you CA cypherpunks feel about being fingerprinted?

Well, if I'd been thinking about it, I'd have put some rubber cement and
whiteout on my thumb before getting the license :-)
More the issue at the time was that the politicians were
busy deciding that your ability to drive safely obviously depended
on whether your citizenship papers were in order (the month
I got it they'd temporarily stopped doing that.)
I recently renewed the license, and they didn't ask for papers
or thumbprints, but they still don't print the license at the 
remote DMV offices; they print them centrally because it simplifies
verifying your information with the INS thugs.

The citizenship papers issue has basically doubled the market
for counterfeit licenses; it's not just excessively bad drivers
who bribe DMV employees any more.

Back when I lived in New Jersey, the cops would set up traffic stops
not only to look for drunk drivers (at 9am?!), but also to check
if your papers were in order.  I haven't seen much of that in California,
but presumably the Southern part of the state does it more often
to catch Spanish speakers who are loose in the population.
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 08:23:23 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Fwd: e-commerce and rights management list
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980206074313.0085b190@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



This showed up on a bunch of lists, not including cypherpunks or
cryptography; Phil Agre added some interesting commentary and
sent it to the Red Rock Eater list so I'm forwarding that version.

>From: Phil Agre 
>To: rre@weber.ucsd.edu
>Subject: e-commerce and rights management
>X-URL: http://communication.ucsd.edu/pagre/rre.html
>X-Mailing-List:  archive/latest/1815
>
>[When Judie sent me the announcement for her new mailing list on practical
>aspects of deploying rights management and e-commerce technologies, I
>was incredulous that such a list doesn't already exist.  She persuaded me
>by means of the following catalog of related lists, which may be of some
>interest.  I assume that you can track down subscription info with the
>standard search tools.  encryption/certificates: ieft-pkix, ieft-open-pgp,
>ieft-ldapext, cert-talk, spki, kerberos, dcsb, alice; digital signatures:
>temple, california, georgia, texas; copyright: cni-copyright, ecup; legal:
>cyberia, law-ipr, euro-lex; rights: cyber-rights, web-rights; e-commerce:
>e-commerc, ica, e-payments; digital libraries: liblicensing, diglib, ifla.]
>
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>This message was forwarded through the Red Rock Eater News Service (RRE).
>Send any replies to the original author, listed in the From: field below.
>You are welcome to send the message along to others but please do not use
>the "redirect" command.  For information on RRE, including instructions
>for (un)subscribing, send an empty message to  rre-help@weber.ucsd.edu
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>
>Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 12:36:26 -0500 (EST)
>From: Judie Mulholland 
>Subject: announcing E-CARM, a new mailing list (fwd)
>
>[...]
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------	
>	      Announcing the creation of a new mailing list:
>
>	     ***E-COMMERCE AND RIGHTS MANAGEMENT (E-CARM)***
>		                    
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>This mailing list has been established to foster and support an on-line
>discussion forum where we can:
>
>	* debate (non) technical, administrative and managerial issues
>   	  pertaining to: secure transactions, competing rights management 
>	  models (e.g. ECMS, PICS, certificates, FIRM, etc.), evolving
>	  standards, supporting technologies and other approaches for
>	  enabling electronic commerce;
>	* inform each other about upcoming conferences, workshops, etc.
>	* point to online papers, resources/links, new apps, web
>	  sites, etc.
>	* identify the critical factors relevant to design, development
>	  and implementation of a rights management infrastructure;
>	* raise questions, share problems, relate concerns;
>	* share success/horror stories;
>	* and much, much more ...
>
>If you are interested in subscribing to this list, please send a message
>to:
>
>
>
>with the following line in body of the message (NOT the subject):
>
>subscribe e-carm "FirstName LastName" (without the quotation marks)
>
>and after you are notified that you have been subbed, we would ask that
>you send a short note to the list, briefly introducing yourself and your
>interests in e-commerce and rights management so that we can begin to come
>together as a community of shared interest(s).
>
>E-CARM is intended to be a member-driven, open, collaborative mailing
>list. However, its success in creating a viable on-line forum will
>depend on individual contributions. As a step in this direction, we
>encourage you to share this announcement with other mailing lists or
>anyone who may be interested in getting involved.
>
>Looking forward to seeing all of you on E-CARM,
>
>Judie Mulholland
>Rajiv Kaushik
>
>List Moderators
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 21:07:52 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: BXA Crypto Meet
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980206125248.00721fd0@pop.pipeline.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



A report on this would be welcomed. Does anyone know who 
are the subcommittee members?

----------

Federal Register: February 6, 1998 (Volume 63, Number 25)
Page 6153

---------------------------------------------------------

Bureau of Export Administration
 
President's Export Council Subcommittee on Encryption; 
Partially Closed Meeting

    A partially closed meeting of the President's Export 
Council Subcommittee on Encryption will be held February 23, 
1998, 2 p.m., at the U.S. Department of Commerce, Herbert C. 
Hoover Building, Room 4832, 14th Street between Pennsylvania 
and Constitution Avenues, NW., Washington, DC. The 
Subcommittee provides advice on matters pertinent 
to policies regarding commercial encryption products.

Public Session

    1. Opening remarks by the Chairman.
    2. Presentation of papers or comments by the public.
    3. Update on Administration commercial encryption policy.
    4. Discussion of task force development and work plan.

Closed Session

    5. Discussion of matters properly classified under Executive 
Order 12958, dealing with the U.S export control program and 
strategic criteria related thereto.

Dated: February 3, 1998.

William V. Skidmore,
Acting Deputy Assistant Secretary for Export Administration.
FR Doc. 98-3001 Filed 2-5-98; 8:45 am







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 22:17:56 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: the best justice money can buy --Lessig (fwd)
Message-ID: <199802061414.IAA05746@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 03:13:00 -0800 (PST)
> From: mark@unicorn.com
> Subject: Re: the best justice money can buy --Lessig (fwd)

> Jim Choate (ravage@ssz.com) wrote:
> >If there were no copyright nobody would have any reason to market software
> >or much else for that matter.
> 
> So I presume that Linux doesn't exist[1]? And, for that matter, I make my
> living writing software which is given away for free...

So do I, and I bet both our incomes combined doesn't add up to 15 minutes of
Bill G's and it won't. From a market perspective we're flies on the back of
great elephant. Please be so kind as to describe how and why this marketing
mechanism (copyleft) will succed? I've been using and supporting Linux since
1993 (SSZ is listed as a source site in the back of 'Running Linux' since 
day one) in this manner neither I or anyone else has gotten rich. Linus made
so much money off it that he went to work for a company in So. Cali. writing
fully commercial software...  

> [1] Yes, I'm aware the GPL uses copyright to enforce its conditions, but
> it's copright-free in the important sense: anyone can copy Linux and use 
> it with no fear of black ninjas at their door.

It's copyrighted in the important sense in that it uses the copyright to
enforce its conditions. That is just as important as the marketing decisions
made by it.



    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |       The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate,       |
   |       but the desire to edit somebody elses words.                 |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                  Sign in Ed Barsis' office         |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 22:27:32 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: the best justice money can buy --Lessig (fwd)
Message-ID: <199802061421.IAA05806@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 03:13:00 -0800 (PST)
> From: mark@unicorn.com
> Subject: Re: the best justice money can buy --Lessig (fwd)

> Jim Choate (ravage@ssz.com) wrote:
> >If there were no copyright nobody would have any reason to market software
> >or much else for that matter.
> 
> So I presume that Linux doesn't exist[1]? And, for that matter, I make my
> living writing software which is given away for free...
> 
> [1] Yes, I'm aware the GPL uses copyright to enforce its conditions, but
> it's copright-free in the important sense: anyone can copy Linux and use 
> it with no fear of black ninjas at their door.

A couple of other points.

I've never claimed the monopolization would exist over nite or that it
wouldn't be filled with short term conflicts and ups-n-downs. Only that the
*long-term* result is a monopolized market. A point you seem to gloss over
as irrelevant. Let's give the market another 5-10 years and see where Linux
stands. Right now the estimate is 6-10 million users world wide use it. Share
wise that isn't a lot. The reason that Linux garners so much press right now
is that it is in fact an exception when an organization uses the software
(eg NASA). The test will be whether it grows significantly over the long
run and not the 5 years that Linux has been a serious os.


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |       The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate,       |
   |       but the desire to edit somebody elses words.                 |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                  Sign in Ed Barsis' office         |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Shostack 
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 21:44:18 +0800
To: bill.stewart@pobox.com
Subject: Re: Feds Approve Bank to Certify Digital Signatures
In-Reply-To: <199802051901.LAA19858@comsec.com>
Message-ID: <199802061333.IAA22492@homeport.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I'm not sure it is unfortunate that they'll be offering escrow.  If
its a complete flop, then we'll be able to point to the complete
failure of the released system.

Time for some Big Brother inside stickers to be printed out, slapped
on flyers for the program, and remailing to potential customers. :)

Anyone work at ZNB?  Want help quitting?

Adam


Bill Stewart wrote:
| There was a note to Dave Farber's list that the Office of the 
| Comptroller of Currency has approved Zion's First National Bank
| to certify digital signatures.  Since they're in Utah, Zion's has
| 
| They're going to offer digital signature certificates
| with the usual binding of a key to a body plus papers,
| and provide software to support it.  Some of their software
| can be used for encryption, and unfortunately they're
| going to offer key escrow, though as a separate business
| service, with keys encrypted by the key's corporate owner
| as well as by the bank for protection, but it's not
| going to be a mandatory service, and they have no intention
| of offering escrow for signature keys, only encryption keys.


-- 
"It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once."
					               -Hume






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 22:44:25 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: slashdot.org news update...
Message-ID: <199802061438.IAA05946@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> X-within-URL: http://www.slashdot.org/

>    John Ousterhout leaves SunScript Contributed by CmdrTaco on Thu Feb 5
>    23:38:53 1998 EST
>    [Sun Microsystems] From the other-disappearing-acts Dept
>    Markus Fleck (aka python) wrote in to say "John Ousterhout, author of
>    the Tcl language and the Tk toolkit, also of Spring OS fame, has left
>    SunScript to form his own company, called Scriptics, to promote the
>    use and further development of Tcl. - I suppose that Sun didn't find
>    paying for Tcl development worthwhile any more, because there has
>    hardly been any revenue from it yet (even the source for the Tcl
>    Plugin for web browsers was made freely available when a poll showed
>    that too few people would be willing to pay for being able to execute
>    "Tclets" in their browsers)."

>    Be x86 Coming Contributed by CmdrTaco
>    [Be] Thu Feb 5 16:26:43 1998 EST
>    From the mr-be-sharp dept.
>    Sean Simmons wrote in to tell us that BeOS for x86 should be released
>    at SD98. Check out this TechWeb Story for more details. I would love
>    to get my hands on a copy.
>    Read More...
>    21 comment(s)

>    Should Netscape Sell Linux? Contributed by Justin
>    [Netscape] Thu Feb 5 16:11:27 1998 EST
>    From the not-a-bad-idea dept.
>    An article at the Boston Globe presents an interesting solution to
>    Netscape's recent losses in the browser war. The author suggests
>    Netscape create and sell their own Linux distribution, the reason
>    being that Microsoft will be able to leverage their control of the
>    operating system for some time. Read on.
>    Read More...
>    38 comment(s)

>    2600 In Danger Contributed by CmdrTaco
>    Thu Feb 5 10:56:14 1998 EST
>    From the sounds-familiar dept.
>    I)ruid wrote in to say " 2600 The Hacker Quarterly, has recently been
>    having financial problems due to it's previous distributor. To find
>    out the whole story, check out this page. 2600 needs our help, but
>    will not accept donations. However, there is a LOT of merchandice in
>    stock, and buying up their overstock will definately help, as well as
>    going down to your local bookstore and requesting that they carry
>    2600. So if you appreciate 2600 as much as I do, let's help give them
>    the help they need." My sentiments exactly.
>    Read More...
>    8 comment(s)

>    Cooking pot markets Contributed by CmdrTaco
>    Thu Feb 5 10:27:02 1998 EST
>    From the must-read dept.
>    Hackworth sent us a link to an article entitled Cooking pot markets.
>    The article is an extremely good read, and addresses issues like What
>    Motiviates Free Software guys. I suspect most of us free software guys
>    already know what is said here, but this article puts it very clearly
>    for people who might understand it a bit less can be clued it.
>    Read More...
>    3 comment(s)

>    Des2, Bovine and Slashdot Contributed by CmdrTaco
>    [Encryption] Thu Feb 5 10:09:40 1998 EST
>    From the bits-and-bytes dept.
>    Distributed.net has been working hard to crack the Des2 contest inside
>    the 22 day limit, but it doesn't look like it's going to happen,
>    despite Team Slashdot's rising in the ranks to #13. Thanks to the
>    125-150 of you who have been contributing keys in our name!

>      Editorials
>    
>    Slashdot is participating in RC5. Read who's helping, and why. Check
>    out Our Current Rank.
>    
>    Read Rob's Solution to the Browser Battle and a followup with comments
>    from a Netscape Engineer. Interesting especially now that Netscape
>    Agreed!


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |       The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate,       |
   |       but the desire to edit somebody elses words.                 |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                  Sign in Ed Barsis' office         |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 22:53:34 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Changing to Moderated Cypherpunks -- How?
Message-ID: <199802061422.JAA00615@panix2.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Soon I won't see you anymore, using the moderated list.

   >   Thu Feb  5 20:22:33 1998
   >   Dimitry "Totally Impotent Since Prostrate Operation" The Dim wrote:
   >   
   >   Adam Back  writes:
   >   
   >   > Information Security 
   >   > > I'd be glad to handle it.
   >   > >
   >   > > The only criteria is to delete Dr. Dim and his nyms.
   >   >
   >   > How are you going to recognize Dimitri's nyms if he has any.
   >   
   >   Guy Polis thinks that anyone smarter than him (and that's 99.99% of the
   >   population) is my tentacle.  He thinks everything on this list except
   >   him and Timmy May is my tentacle, including you too, Adam.
   >   
   >   Guy Polis (guy@panix.com, eviljay@bway.net) is a pedophile child
   >   molester who was fired from his consulting position at Salomon Brothers
   >   after he was caught masturbating in his cubicle at the child pornography
   >   JPEGs that he downloaded from the Internet.
   >   
   >   In retaliation, Guy Polis spammed the firewalls mailing list with megabytes
   >   of e-mail logs that he "intercepted" at Salomon Brothers, and accused
   >   several of his former co-workers and supervisors of various crimes.
   >   
   >   As far as I can determine, Guy Polis has been unemployed since the time
   >   he was fired from Salomon.  If anyone knows otherwise, please let me know.

All you'll get is resounding silence, especially since you're so clueless
as to get my name wrong: hint...not even 'guy' is correct.

What a loser!

You must love everyone seeing the old traffic analysis report on you:

    You'll have to go to URL 'www.dejanews.com/home_ps.shtml' to pick it up.
    Select "old database" and use this in their search box:
 
    ~g soc.culture.jewish & ~dc 1997/08/04 & ~s Brighton Beach

Perhaps it should be updated and delivered to everyone in your neighborhood
and the building you give classes in?

You're just a ButtHead who never grew up, still gets a kick
out of saying "cocksucker".

Your brother Michael had to do your math thesis for you!
---guy

   You couldn't even cut it in Manhatten.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Paul H. Merrill" 
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 23:14:31 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: the best justice money can buy --Lessig (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199802060155.TAA03984@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <34DB522F.5DE@acm.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> > Hmm... There's no copyright on perfumes.  There are market leaders in perfumes,
> > but no monopoly; hardly even an olygopoly.
> 
> I can tell how often you buy perfume, the ones I buy for my girlfriend
> certainly have a little 'c' on them...

The names of perfumes are (generally copyrighted.  The perfumes
(fragrances) themselves are not.  This leaves the door open for
knock-offs of the scent that then market under their own names -- and in
some cases, claims of being just like "whoever".

The situation is not parallel to sw because noone but a linux freak
hopes to swep anyone off their feet by putting a ribbon around a tiny
bit of sw and giving it for a BDay or VDay or whatever, astheydo with
the top name parfums.

PHM





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 00:51:21 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Test (cypherpunks@minder.net) [No Reply Please]
Message-ID: <199802061642.KAA06469@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Test

[No Reply Please]


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |       The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate,       |
   |       but the desire to edit somebody elses words.                 |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                  Sign in Ed Barsis' office         |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 04:14:24 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Software Money
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





http://cgi.pathfinder.com/netly/editorial/0,1012,1722,00.html

The Netly News (http://netlynews.com/)
February 2, 1998

Software Money
by Declan McCullagh (declan@well.com)

        Successful political campaigns follow a simple formula: 1) Spend
   heaps of money; 2) Puzzle out how to squeeze your message into one
   sentence, or, better yet, a bumper sticker.

        Silicon Valley finally got the first part right. Software
   chieftains, historically eager to squander cash on doomed marketing
   campaigns but loath to spend the same opposing government regulations,
   are about to ante up millions to detangle the skein of rules that
   restrict sales of data-scrambling encryption software. Sure, it's
   pocket change to California's zillionaires, but it may be just enough
   to get their deregulatory point across in the nation's capital.

[...]

       Together the duo will coordinate the lobbying and media efforts
   of a new industry coalition, as yet unnamed but likely to be dubbed
   something like the Alliance for Computer Privacy. The
   soon-to-be-announced project (contracts haven't been signed yet) grew
   out of the Alliance for a Secure Tomorrow, which firms hurriedly
   created last fall to battle FBI-backed legislation banning software
   such as PGP, which is capable of encoding messages so securely that
   police can't crack them. But the AST languished. Soon CEOs of more
   than a dozen high-tech companies started talking about a more
   aggressive approach. "The only time you're going to win this battle is
   when you put money on the table," says Lauren Hall of the Software
   Publishers Association.

[...]







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: BMM 
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 01:43:24 +0800
To: cypherpunks@minder.net
Subject: new CDR node
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



A cypherpunks distributed list node is now available at
cypherpunks@minder.net.  I would appreciate it if the current CDR ops
would add a feed to this address.  Thanks.

-BMM

-
bmm@minder.net






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 06:14:24 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: The schizophrenic White House and the Internet
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 13:01:05 -0800 (PST)
From: Declan McCullagh 
To: politech@vorlon.mit.edu
Subject: The schizophrenic White House and the Internet

Carl makes a good point. When it comes to the Internet, the Clinton-Gore
administration is schizophrenic. Ira Magaziner and other White House
officials say their attitude towards the Internet is "hands off" and
"deregulatory" -- a line that certainly makes for good copy from
journalists who don't know any better and don't take the time to learn
more.

But in truth White House policy is far from hands off. Here are a few
areas where the Clinton-Gore administration is calling for greater
regulation, subsidies, taxes, and government control of the Internet and
related technology: 

-- Criminal copyright (share software, go to jail)
-- Encryption regulations (export ctrls and proposed domestic rules)
-- CALEA / Digital Telephony wiretapping funding
-- Gore Commission talking about extending FCC rules to Net
-- Universal service (taxes and spending for Net access)
-- Rating systems (Clinton: "every Internet site" should self-label)
-- Net-taxation (has Clinton enorsed Cox-Wyden?)
-- Rapacious government databases (DoD recently demanded more access)
-- Subsidies for government-approved technologies
-- FTC considering banning spam (what about technical solutions?)
-- FTC actions on "children's privacy"
-- Clinton calling for V-Chip for Internet

These are hardly the actions of a deregulatory administration.

-Declan


---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 15:33:44 -0500
From: Carl Ellison 
To: declan@well.com
Subject: Re: FC: Magaziner says "No regulation!" at Cato-Brookings event

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Of course, this means gov't hands off crypto policy, too, right?

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.5.3

iQCVAwUBNNtzpxN3Wx8QwqUtAQFYHwP/XpBnkplWMZpc0bIfbNhEnlhzmUsXyMXa
rjfgnJGW8jX31fkbXZqcILcURPA31HfHu0K8y/FmmcoD5rcz9my3J785EL5903iS
gwm2zvF2uKMdIqACF7BP2pb1bmJvJYWWqXQP7SNjkQpbzFz0XGF4LHAFhbPf24Tw
e7694fdXoc4=
=vK41
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


+------------------------------------------------------------------+
|Carl M. Ellison  cme@cybercash.com   http://www.clark.net/pub/cme |
|CyberCash, Inc.                      http://www.cybercash.com/    |
|207 Grindall Street  PGP 08FF BA05 599B 49D2  23C6 6FFD 36BA D342 |
|Baltimore MD 21230-4103  T:(410) 727-4288  F:(410)727-4293        |
+------------------------------------------------------------------+








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Eric Cordian 
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 04:52:56 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Krauts Weaken Constitutional Privacy
Message-ID: <199802062017.OAA23205@wire.insync.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



BONN, Germany (AP) -- Germany reduced constitutional guarantees of privacy
Friday to fight organized crime, ceding historical concerns over past
dictatorships to present-day realities. 
 
By a one-vote margin, parliament's upper house approved changes to the
constitution necessary for eventual passage of a law allowing electronic
surveillance in private households. 
 
Before approving the measure, however, the opposition Social Democrats won
a promise that a parliamentary committee would re-examine the proposed law
to include protection for some groups -- including journalists, doctors
and some lawyers. 
 
The proposed law has raised warnings about reviving the police state
tactics of the Nazi regime and former communist East Germany. Mostly,
though, critics are worried about breaching confidentiality essential to
some professions, such as doctors. 
 
Outside of government, journalists and doctors have been the most vocal
critics of the draft law, which currently shields conversations between
suspects and clergy, parliamentarians, and defense lawyers. 
 
Journalists view the proposed law as an attack on press freedom. 
 
``It's not about privilege for journalists,'' the chairman of the German
Journalist Association, Hermann Meyn, wrote in an open letter to
parliament. ``It's about protection of news room secrets, essential press
freedoms.''
 
The vote Friday weakened the constitutional guarantee of the sanctity of
ones home by defining situations when police could bug homes:  during
investigation of serious crimes -- such as murder, kidnapping, extortion,
arms and drug trafficking -- with the approval of three judges. 
 
The changes necessary for the law also would allow electronic
eavesdropping on suspects after a crime has been committed -- not just to
prevent crime -- and for the first time allows information from bugging
devices to be entered as evidence. 
 
Organized crime has risen sharply in Europe since the collapse of
communist regimes in Russia and Eastern Europe, which loosened previously
closed borders. Drug trafficking, car theft and smuggling of cigarettes,
illegal immigrants and even nuclear material has increased. 
 
The law must be passed by both houses of parliament. 

-- 
Eric Michael Cordian 0+
O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division
"Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 04:18:04 +0800
To: "Trei, Peter" 
Subject: Re: FW: SEC Rule Announcement
In-Reply-To: <6B5344C210C7D011835C0000F8012766010035B3@exna01.securitydynamics.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Peter is quite right that the interesting part is HOME computers. It's the
Electronic Messaging Association, BTW. My article with comments from them,
SEC, NASD, ACLU, etc. is at:

   http://cgi.pathfinder.com/netly/opinion/0,1042,1731,00.html

The SEC may have approved a rule that violates federal law.

-Declan


At 17:00 -0500 2/4/98, Trei, Peter wrote:
>[sorry if you get this twice - pt]
>
>I have not been able to confirm the claim in this letter - the EMA
>does not seem to have a web site. Note that it refers to
>employers monitoring employee's HOME computers.
>
>Peter Trei
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From:	Larry Layten [SMTP:larry@ljl.com]
>> Sent:	Wednesday, February 04, 1998 11:04 AM
>> To:	cryptography@c2.net
>> Subject:	SEC Rule Announcement
>>
>> I received information in an Electronic Mail Association (EMA)
>> bulletin that said the Securities and Exchange Commission
>> approved a rule that would go into effect February 15th that
>> requires securities employers to have the ability to monitor
>> electronic communications between employees and customers
>> on employees' home computers or through third party systems.
>>
>> Does anyone have any more information on this and how it
>> might apply to encrypted email?
>>
>> Larry







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 07:07:30 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: the best justice/kinds of monopolies
In-Reply-To: <34DA3157.1FF4FA7A@ssds.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 11:52 PM -0800 2/5/98, Bill Frantz wrote:
>At 1:38 PM -0800 2/5/98, in a generally right on post, Jim Burnes wrote:
>>(this and the strange tendency of
>>workers
>>to "go postal" -- you rarely hear about FedEX employees going on
>>an
>>AK47 rampage, must be the water ;-)
>
>No, the problem is the US Postal Service's willingness to tolerate assholes
>as managers.  There may be an argument for pinning that on the government
>monopoly aspects of the USPS as well.

Not just the managers, but the ordinary employees...

The Postal Service is effectively bound to keep employees on that any
normal business would have simply given the boot to.

The benefits of government service....

(Yes, yes, I know some of you will be tempted to cite the official line
that the Postal Service is no longer a government agency. Well, this is a
distinction without a difference. The USPS retains governmental protections
against competition, has government-like powers and protections, and is
still run by a "Postmaster General," not a Chairman of the Board or
President or CEO. It ain't FedEx or Airborne. Or even UPS, which emulates
government agencies.)


--Tim May

"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^3,021,377   | black markets, collapse of governments.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 04:24:39 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: FW: SEC Rule Announcement
Message-ID: <199802061953.OAA04651@panix2.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



   >   From cypherpunks-errors@toad.com Fri Feb  6 14:41:14 1998
   >   
   >   Peter is quite right that the interesting part is HOME computers. It's the
   >   Electronic Messaging Association, BTW. My article with comments from them,
   >   SEC, NASD, ACLU, etc. is at:
   >   
   >      http://cgi.pathfinder.com/netly/opinion/0,1042,1731,00.html
   >   
   >   The SEC may have approved a rule that violates federal law.
   >   
   >   -Declan

It was quite unnecessary: all a company has to do is require
all company business email contact go through the company's systems,
even if home.

Furthermore, brokers send email during the work day - like the
list of AXEs they have for that day - and send it in the morning.

Home email directly to clients is basically non-existent.

----

Stange, how monitoring home email to third parties would be illegal,
but Deutsche Bank showing up at a random time to demand (and watch)
you give a urine sample is completely legal.
---guy





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 04:52:25 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: STOA Report Bibliography
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980206202304.0071da54@pop.pipeline.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



We've transcribed the 26-page bibliography of STOA's
"An Appraisal of the Technologies of Political Control:"

   http://jya.com/stoa-bib.htm  (85K)

Zipped version:

   http://jya.com/stoa-bib.zip  (32K)

The substantiating details of the cited literature -- study after
study of the consequences of inhumane policy and savage 
commerce eager to oblige it -- are grimmer than the main 
report. A steady drumbeat for ever more ingenious technology 
to enforce submission.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 09:30:58 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Fingerprinting in CA [was Whoa: British SmartCard rollout]
In-Reply-To: <19980205.000739.attila@hun.org>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 7:40 AM -0800 2/6/98, Bill Stewart wrote:
>>>   How did you CA cypherpunks feel about being fingerprinted?
>
>Well, if I'd been thinking about it, I'd have put some rubber cement and
>whiteout on my thumb before getting the license :-)
>More the issue at the time was that the politicians were
>busy deciding that your ability to drive safely obviously depended
>on whether your citizenship papers were in order (the month
>I got it they'd temporarily stopped doing that.)
>I recently renewed the license, and they didn't ask for papers
>or thumbprints, but they still don't print the license at the
>remote DMV offices; they print them centrally because it simplifies
>verifying your information with the INS thugs.

And don't forget the "Department of Deadbeat Dads" thugs. As I recall
things, there was a bill passed in the California legislature to beef up
computerized tracking of driver-units so that deabeat-units can be
identified and marked for collection.

The invasions of privacy in the driver's license process is just
symptomatic of a larger problem:

* government claims that some activity is a "privilege, not a right," and
so claims that normal constitutional protections are irrelevant.

(One wonders if they believe the First Amendment doesn't apply, that Big
Brother may monitor what drivers are saying and deny licenses to political
troublemakers: "driving is a privilege, not a right.")

* government claims that the "regulation of commerce" language applies much
more broadly than the original interstate commerce and very general
rule-making language.

(One abuse of this was to say that if a student received federal loans, a
college could not practice certain of its normal practices...and the
college was forbidden from stopping the student from receiving these loans!
Catch-22. At this rate, churches will come under federal regulation because
they receive Postal Service deliveries. Or because government roads are
their only access.  And so on.)


>Back when I lived in New Jersey, the cops would set up traffic stops
>not only to look for drunk drivers (at 9am?!), but also to check
>if your papers were in order.  I haven't seen much of that in California,
>but presumably the Southern part of the state does it more often
>to catch Spanish speakers who are loose in the population.

Warrantless roadblocks are in place in my town, and, according to the local
newspaper, any driver who is seen turning around so as to avoid the
roadblock check will have his vehicle subject to detailed search.

--Tim May

Just Say No to "Big Brother Inside"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^3,021,377   | black markets, collapse of governments.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill.stewart@pobox.com
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 18:23:23 +0800
To: Tim May 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980206174114.007b4ac0@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 02:47 PM 2/6/98 -0800, Tim May wrote:
>(Yes, yes, I know some of you will be tempted to cite the official line
>that the Postal Service is no longer a government agency. Well, this is a
>distinction without a difference. The USPS retains governmental protections
>against competition, has government-like powers and protections, and is
>still run by a "Postmaster General," not a Chairman of the Board or
>President or CEO. It ain't FedEx or Airborne. Or even UPS, which emulates
>government agencies.)

I don't care if they call their boss Grand Wazoo Snail Mail Evangelist;
there are software and ice cream companies that use non-standard titles too.
"Postal Inspector" is a much more serious problem title, since they
seem to have quasi-police powers to do criminal investigations of
postal offenses like pornography and pyramid scams and running competing
formatted-tree-product information delivery services.

				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: sphantom 
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 08:27:48 +0800
To: "cypherpunks@toad.com>
Subject: Lets check this out
Message-ID: <34DBA006.46743131@tfs.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Here is something for us to check out. Was just emailed to me today.

I am curious how this person does it.

Dear Friends,

If someone named SandMan asks you to check out his page on the WEB

DO NOT!!!

It is at www.geocities.com/vienna/6318

This page hacks into your C:/ drive.  DO NOT GO THERE

 HE WILL REQUEST A CHAT WITH YOU....don't do it.

FORWARD THIS TO EVERYONE...






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: jim@mentat.com (Jim Gillogly)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 10:09:00 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Most elegant wording against privacy/law-enforcement "balance"
Message-ID: <9802070144.AA11833@mentat.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Guy skribis:
> What are the most elegant rebuttals to politicians saying we
> need Key Recovery as a "reasonable balance between the needs of
> law enforcement vs. freedom of crypto"?

I don't know how elegant it is, but here's my response:

Compromising the public's right to privacy gives away not only our own
rights, but those of our descendants.  The government must make an
extraordinary case to justify undermining those rights, and so far it
has not done so.

The most detailed research on the issue is a study by Dorothy Denning
and William Baugh investigating the extent to which crypto has
interfered with law enforcement's ability to get convictions: their
bottom line was that crypto has not in fact interfered: law enforcement
has been able to complete their investigations using other means.
There's no demonstrated need for Government Access to Crypto Keys
(GACK), so there's no need to compromise away our privacy.

	Jim Gillogly
	jim@acm.org





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill.stewart@pobox.com
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 15:02:24 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980206181238.007b4ac0@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 10:34 AM 2/5/98 -0600, Jim Choate wrote:
>If there were no copyright nobody would have any reason to market 
>software or much else for that matter. I would predict that much of 
>the technology and infrastructure we have now wouldn't exist. 
>It would also stiffle [sic] creativity and new methodologies because 
>there would be no profit in it to recoup development costs.

If there were no copyright, markets for information and entertainment
would definitely have evolved differently than they have in the US
and Europe, and would use much different mechanisms for getting money
to the producers of information, such as standard sale contracts.*
On the other hand, if there were no colonialism, markets for sheep in
New Zealand would have evolved much differently than they did,
a problem they're now gradually working their way out of.

The music business, for example, handles paying authors when their works
are performed by performers through mechanisms other than just
charging big bucks for sheet music.  The Free Software Foundation found
that with a bit of academic and military socialism to jump start it,
there are a lot of reasons for people to create value and beauty,
and you can even talk corporations into paying money for support.
Van Gogh found good reasons to paint, in spite of being broke.
Michaelangelo found good reasons to paint, and Gutenberg found
good reasons to print, in spite of not having copyright protection.
Newspapers eveolved in an environment where copyright wasn't a big deal;
if your competitors ripped off your stories, they were a day late,
and you could rag them about it in your own paper.
Mainframe software evolved in an environment where contracts
covered use of the software, and copyright was seldom relevant;
that has gradually changed with mass-market computers, but
it took a while for courts to accept the idea of copyrighting
software, and the industry didn't refrain from writing the stuff.

Copyright is certainly a major market convenience, because it means
that individual authors, middlemen, and readers don't have to
negotiate contracts each time they trade information for money,
or having to read the annoying shrink-wrap licenses on books
the way they did for a while on packaged software.  It also
makes it more difficult for alternative mechanisms to evolve,
because it's got an 800-pound well-armed gorilla subsidizing it.


>Those who would survive in such a market would be
>the 800-lb gorillas because only they would have the resources 
>to squash the smaller companies.
If I read Mark's note correctly, the gorilla he was talking about
wasn't MicroSloth, it was the government.  We may joke about Gates
being the Evil Empire, but it's clearly a joke; we've seen the real thing.

>Free markets monopolize.
and in a following note, Jim says that that's true mainly for the
long run, not necessarily for the short run.  It's not only incorrect,
especially as expanded upon, it's irrelevant to the moral question.
If your alternatives are free markets, where you and I can 
offer to buy or sell products without anybody beating us up for it,
versus non-free markets, where some gang can beat us up for
not going along with the program (whether the gang is the Mafia,
the Pinkertons, the KGB, or "your neighbors in a democracy"),
there's no question which is morally acceptable - even if the
violence-based market is often more convenient for some goods.

But morality aside,  monopoly, in the sense of a single player
or small group of players domination the sales of a commodity,
is something that can certainly happen in the short run but is
unstable in the long run unless the competition can be prevented
by threats of violence (whether by the monopoly or the government.)
If people are free to offer competing products, maintaining market
share is difficult, and the market leader not only has to contend
with the other big dogs, but with being nipped to death by Chihuahuas,
and with being made obsolete by better technologies.
Who monopolizes tabletop radios these days?  (Who cares?)
Who monopolizes Video Cassette Recorders?  They're both relatively 
free markets, in spite of the FCC's attempts to enforce standards,
and Sony's attempts to monopolize the BetaMax market.
On the other hand, radio and TV broadcasting are near-monopolies,
because the Feds have been "helping" protect our public airwaves.

------------
* Some Libertarians and some Libertarian-bashers will argue that using
government courts to enforce contracts is still hiring the 800-pound 
well-armed gorilla to carry out your private business activities....
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 10:25:02 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Most elegant wording against privacy/law-enforcement "balance"
In-Reply-To: <199802070106.UAA01015@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 5:06 PM -0800 2/6/98, Information Security wrote:
>What are the most elegant rebuttals to politicians saying we
>need Key Recovery as a "reasonable balance between the needs of
>law enforcement vs. freedom of crypto"?
>
>I wasn't too elegant in the Crypto Manifesto.

I  like this for starters:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or
prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech,
or of the
press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition
the Government for a redress of grievances. "

Of course, some in Washington consider this to be a seditious sentiment.

But serious, "Information Security" is asking for too much. He is asking us
to give our personal opinions about the "most elegant" arguments. Debates
about key escrow have been raging for almost five years now. He's not
likely to get new arguments here, or newly-written articles.

I urge him to either consult the archives of this list or the thousands of
articles in many places.

Search engines are a good way to find them.

Of course, I expect various folks will answer his call and write down their
reasons. I just doubt strongly that they'll be arguments as good as what
was written years ago.

--Tim May

Just Say No to "Big Brother Inside"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^3,021,377   | black markets, collapse of governments.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 10:53:59 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Most elegant wording against privacy/law-enforcement "balance"
In-Reply-To: <9802070144.AA11833@mentat.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




I strongly, emphatically, disagree with the reasoning used here by Jim
Gillogly:

At 5:44 PM -0800 2/6/98, Jim Gillogly wrote:
>Guy skribis:
>> What are the most elegant rebuttals to politicians saying we
>> need Key Recovery as a "reasonable balance between the needs of
>> law enforcement vs. freedom of crypto"?
>
>I don't know how elegant it is, but here's my response:
>
>Compromising the public's right to privacy gives away not only our own
>rights, but those of our descendants.  The government must make an
>extraordinary case to justify undermining those rights, and so far it
>has not done so.

"So far it has not done so."

This "argument based on utilitarian need" is at odds with the First
Amendment. The notion that a form of speech in letters and phone calls and
conversations could be compelled because, say, the government concludes
that it is needed to stop some criminal actions, is ludicrous.

A policy requiring certain forms of speech is no different from a policy
saying the government may enter a house when it wishes.

I am drawing the parallel with the Fourth deliberately: no amount of
"study," even a study by such august persons as Denning and Baugh, could
ever conclude that wholesale, unwarranted searches are permissable. The
Fourth was put in just to stop such broad conclusions.

Likewise, the First is clearly directed against such broad restrictons on
speech (and religion, and assembly, and complaining (petitioning)) so that
no "study" can be used to broadly restrict speech.

And make no mistake about it, whatever the accepted arguments for
restricting certain types of speech (notoriously, the "Fire!" example) are,
they are not consistent with a broad requirement that persons face
imprisonment if they speak in codes, or fail to use transparent envelopes,
or disconnect the microphones in their homes!

>The most detailed research on the issue is a study by Dorothy Denning
>and William Baugh investigating the extent to which crypto has
>interfered with law enforcement's ability to get convictions: their
>bottom line was that crypto has not in fact interfered: law enforcement
>has been able to complete their investigations using other means.
>There's no demonstrated need for Government Access to Crypto Keys
>(GACK), so there's no need to compromise away our privacy.

Bluntly pu, "FUCK "DEMONSTRATED NEED"!"

And what if Denning and Baugh had reached other conclusions? (As well they
might, next year, when crypto is more widely deployed.)

I have strongly argued over the years against ever using some "government
study" as the basis for our arguments, even when the studies appear to
support our position.

What the studies giveth, the studies can taketh away.

--Tim May

Just Say No to "Big Brother Inside"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^3,021,377   | black markets, collapse of governments.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 08:21:03 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Fingerprinting in CA [was Whoa: British SmartCard rollout]
Message-ID: <199802070004.TAA27622@panix2.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



   >   From bill.stewart@pobox.com Fri Feb  6 18:50:28 1998
   >   
   >   >>   How did you CA cypherpunks feel about being fingerprinted?
   >   
   >   Well, if I'd been thinking about it, I'd have put some rubber cement and
   >   whiteout on my thumb before getting the license :-)

   >   More the issue at the time was that the politicians were
   >   busy deciding that your ability to drive safely obviously depended
   >   on whether your citizenship papers were in order (the month
   >   I got it they'd temporarily stopped doing that.)

But it is being rolled out all over, state-by-state, never a vote.

They don't have problems with illegal aliens in Georgia, USA.

A mercifully brief CM excerpt:
 
*   Dr. Linda Thompson:
*   YOUR STATE IS NEXT AND DON'T THINK OTHERWISE.  Sandia and other defense
*   contractors, without a war elsewhere, are OUT OF WORK, so they're
*   creating job security for themselves by helping fascists wage war in the
*   United States on us and our rights!!
*
*   Georgia, Texas and Oregon ALREADY require fingerprints for licenses.
 
>   California is already fingerprinting drivers, and many places outside of
>   the US are creating identity cards with barcoded information.
>
>   Also, AmSouth and Compass Banks will soon introduce fingerprinting of
>   people who cash checks and have no account with their bank.  This is
>   now standard practice in Texas and will soon be nation-wide.

Oregon?

It's like Wired magazine reported: the NSA is behind it all.

The DMV records are online 24 hours for FBI access.

   >   I recently renewed the license, and they didn't ask for papers
   >   or thumbprints...

They already got your number.

When will some group express organized opposition to this?
---guy

   Your fingerprint tattoo.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 09:34:11 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Most elegant wording against privacy/law-enforcement "balance"
Message-ID: <199802070106.UAA01015@panix2.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



What are the most elegant rebuttals to politicians saying we
need Key Recovery as a "reasonable balance between the needs of
law enforcement vs. freedom of crypto"?

I wasn't too elegant in the Crypto Manifesto.
---guy





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 11:09:31 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Most elegant wording against privacy/law-enforcement "balance" (fwd)
Message-ID: <199802070250.UAA09222@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 18:31:49 -0800
> From: Tim May 
> Subject: Re: Most elegant wording against privacy/law-enforcement "balance"

> >Compromising the public's right to privacy gives away not only our own
> >rights, but those of our descendants.  The government must make an
> >extraordinary case to justify undermining those rights, and so far it
> >has not done so.
> 
> "So far it has not done so."
> 
> This "argument based on utilitarian need" is at odds with the First
> Amendment.

It's at odds with the entire concept of 'inalienable rights' and 'government
instituted by the governed'.

> I am drawing the parallel with the Fourth deliberately: no amount of
> "study," even a study by such august persons as Denning and Baugh, could
> ever conclude that wholesale, unwarranted searches are permissable. The
> Fourth was put in just to stop such broad conclusions.

I would say more broadly the Constitution and in particular the Bill of
Rights was implimented to eliminate these issue from the federal level.



    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |       The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate,       |
   |       but the desire to edit somebody elses words.                 |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                  Sign in Ed Barsis' office         |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill.stewart@pobox.com
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 18:20:18 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980206211343.007b4ac0@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 08:21 AM 2/6/98 -0600, Jim Choate wrote:
> Let's give the market another 5-10 years and see where Linux
>stands. Right now the estimate is 6-10 million users world wide use it. Share
>wise that isn't a lot. The reason that Linux garners so much press right now
>is that it is in fact an exception when an organization uses the software
>(eg NASA). The test will be whether it grows significantly over the long
>run and not the 5 years that Linux has been a serious os.

Sharewise, that's not bad for a system that had 1 million users a 
year or two ago, though of course it gains a lot of extra slack
because it's quasi-free Unix on an affordable platform.
Getting that much desktop support without running MSOffice is
impressive.  Getting lots of support for servers is a different issue;
we've known for a decade and a half that if you want to actually
build a system that will _do_ real work for you, you use Unix*,
even if you use a different desktop GUI.  NT has been improved enough
that you can occasionally build services on it if you're desperate
enough, though its stability is still less than ideal.
(I never had it crash except for hardware mismatch reasons,
but its networking stuff reflects the fact that MS still doesn't
understand what networks are.)

---
* In a few environments you'd use VMS, because for all DEC's faults,
they were very strong on making sure they had software environments to
support the applications their customers wanted, like factory control.
Or you could use LispMachines, because they were nice.

				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "WebWarrior3@InfoWar.Com" 
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 11:21:51 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com
Subject: Re: Lets check this out *yawn*
In-Reply-To: <34DBA006.46743131@tfs.net>
Message-ID: <34DBCD51.E7B8DC7B@InfoWar.Com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



This person doesn't do it...there is nothing on the site that is in the
least bit out of the ordinary.
Here is the HTML.  There IS a great hacking page run by a guy named
Sandman...
http://www.unitedcouncil.org is the URL for that one.
-Scott Brower
http://www.infowar.com
http://www.efflorida.org



Index of /Vienna/6318


Index of /Vienna/6318


      Name
Last modified     Size  Description


[DIR] Parent
Directory       06-Feb-98 14:23      -
[SND] ACDC.MID               10-Sep-97 05:12    21k
[SND] AXEL-F.MID             10-Sep-97 05:13    35k
[SND] GANGSTA.MID            10-Sep-97 05:13    60k
[SND] HCALIF.MID             10-Sep-97 05:14   136k
[TXT] INDEX.HTML             10-Sep-97 05:12     4k
[SND] ISWEAR.MID             10-Sep-97 04:53    20k
[IMG] MAILX.GIF              10-Sep-97 04:53     3k
[IMG] MURLK.JPG              10-Sep-97 04:53     6k
[IMG] ROCKET.GIF             10-Sep-97 04:53     2k
[TXT] SDFDB.HTM              10-Sep-97 05:01     4k
[SND] STAIRWAY.MID           10-Sep-97 05:02    28k




sphantom wrote:

> Here is something for us to check out. Was just emailed to me today.
>
> I am curious how this person does it.
>
> Dear Friends,
>
> If someone named SandMan asks you to check out his page on the WEB
>
> DO NOT!!!
>
> It is at www.geocities.com/vienna/6318
>
> This page hacks into your C:/ drive.  DO NOT GO THERE
>
>  HE WILL REQUEST A CHAT WITH YOU....don't do it.
>
> FORWARD THIS TO EVERYONE...







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Duncan Frissell 
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 13:28:27 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: PGP/McAfee no longer allowing downloads
In-Reply-To: <34DBA006.46743131@tfs.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980206222052.0378ca48@panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Has anyone else noticed that PGP Inc. has stopped allowing downloads (even for money) from pgp.com?  If you go to buy, all you get is the promise of a mailed CD.

DCF





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Duncan Frissell 
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 13:28:59 +0800
To: Bill Stewart 
Subject: Re: Fingerprinting in CA
In-Reply-To: <19980205.000739.attila@hun.org>
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980206223532.03713264@panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 07:40 AM 2/6/98 -0800, Bill Stewart wrote:
>>>   How did you CA cypherpunks feel about being fingerprinted?
>
>Well, if I'd been thinking about it, I'd have put some rubber cement and
>whiteout on my thumb before getting the license :-)

A person of my acquaintance was recently involved in a traffic accident in a 
Northeast state.  Out-of-state (but in country) car registered in someone 
else's name and carrying a drivers license issued by a NATO ally.  Ticketed 
for running a red light.  No further problems.  Could have been a deadbeat 
dad for all I know...

As legal as church on a Sunday.

DCF

"Has anyone noticed that there are *more* foreigners around here than there 
used to be before they started cracking down on illegals."  
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 10:03:21 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Lets check this out
In-Reply-To: <34DBA006.46743131@tfs.net>
Message-ID: <199802070148.CAA26783@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



sphantom wrote:

> If someone named SandMan asks you to check out his page on the WEB
> 
> DO NOT!!!
> 
> It is at www.geocities.com/vienna/6318
> 
> This page hacks into your C:/ drive.  DO NOT GO THERE


All I see there is a few midi files and some badly-written HTML.
Nothing there to hack into my C:/ drive.  I don't even have a C: drive.
If you were running a more secure operating system, you wouldn't either.


> I am curious how this person does it.
> 

You obviously haven't been reading this list very long.  There are lots
of way to do nasty things to microslob windoze, including: Buffer overruns
in IE, javascript bugs in web browsers, launching applications thru
mime-types, SMB bugs (oob-attack, cd ..\, and others), macro (and other)
viruses, buffer overruns in the tcp stack (oversized pings, etc), as well
as the near infinite number of possible active-x exploits.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 14:46:42 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: BBN
Message-ID: <199802070630.HAA00869@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Timothy C[unt] May is the living proof that anal sex 
causes pregnancy.

       ____
       \ _/__ Timothy C[unt] May
        \\  /
          \/





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 15:02:10 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: <>
Message-ID: <199802070635.HAA01426@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 02:36:54 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com
Subject: Galombos and a World where Ideas can be Protected
In-Reply-To: <199802051634.KAA02262@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 6:12 PM -0800 2/6/98, bill.stewart@pobox.com wrote:
>At 10:34 AM 2/5/98 -0600, Jim Choate wrote:
>>If there were no copyright nobody would have any reason to market
>>software or much else for that matter. I would predict that much of
>>the technology and infrastructure we have now wouldn't exist.
>>It would also stiffle [sic] creativity and new methodologies because
>>there would be no profit in it to recoup development costs.
>
>If there were no copyright, markets for information and entertainment
>would definitely have evolved differently than they have in the US
>and Europe, and would use much different mechanisms for getting money
>to the producers of information, such as standard sale contracts.*
....

It's always hard to say how reality would look in a different universe, one
with, say, no copyright laws.

However, we have some indications, because there are some things which are
very much like "intellectual property" which, in fact, have no protection
in the courts.

Namely, _ideas_.

For better or for worse, ideas are not protected against copying, use, etc.

(Before anyone jumps in and cites patents, by "ideas" I mean scientific
discoveries, philosophical expressions, aphorisms, and so on, not
_expressions_ of ideas in the form of working gadgets. And not "software
patents" (with which I disagree, as do many of us). And not _specific_
instances of ideas in the form of essays or stories or whatever, which of
course _can_ be copyrighted.)

In our society, and in all societies with which I'm familiar, having a good
idea is not protectable. (Again, not counting inventions and such.)

And yet society works fine. Those who keep coming up with ideas find ways
to keep coming up with ideas, and often to prosper, as writers,
consultants, etc., often because of their ability to generate ideas.

(There is a radical, and bizarre, subsect of libertarians called
"Galambosians," who argue that even ideas are property. In their view, I
could charge people 10 cents or a dollar or such for their usage of "crypto
anarchy" ideas, or "Big Brother Inside" ideas, or for being influenced by
my ideas in other ways. Hard to enforce, I'd say. Which is probably why the
ideas of Galombos are not copied by many others. In his system, he'd be a
pauper.)

Think about an alternate world where ideas are protectable before saying a
world without copyrights would collapse inevitably.

--Tim May

Just Say No to "Big Brother Inside"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^3,021,377   | black markets, collapse of governments.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 04:17:16 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Washington on the verge of being nuked?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980206181238.007b4ac0@popd.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Remember to stay well clear of soft targets as the war with Albania, er,
Iraq starts in the next few weeks.

Yeltsin warns the U.S. publically that an attack on Iraq could have grave
consequences, perhaps even leading to another world war.

He was almost certainly _not_ threatening to use his own nukes against the
U.S.  So what was he talking about?

Maybe he and his intelligence services have a clearer idea of where some of
those 50 to 70 missing suitcase nukes have ended up. Saddam still had a lot
of money even after the Gulf War.

Mightn't he have bought some of those surplus nukes?

Plenty of time over the past couple of years to get them into major U.S.
cities. Especially cities like Washington and New York.

If Iraq's cities and palaces and such are bombed, as expected, he may put
out the order to hit the enemy where it will hurt. A timer set for an hour
and the agents are well away from the blast.

Biological agents are, I think, less likely to do widespread damage. In a
few years, perhaps, when the technology is more widely available, but for
now it looks like U.S.-class bioweapons are not yet available to so-called
terrorists.

Of course, after such an attack, though hundreds of thousands of criminals
may be disposed of in Washington, martial law and a suspension of the
Constitution can be expected. So it won't be all good news. And financial
chaos may reign if business centers are hit.

Downtown Washington is the last place I'd want to be. For multiple reasons.

--Tim May

Just Say No to "Big Brother Inside"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^3,021,377   | black markets, collapse of governments.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 06:10:18 +0800
To: Declan McCullagh 
Subject: Re: Washington on the verge of being nuked?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 1:31 PM -0800 2/7/98, Declan McCullagh wrote:

>I live in Adams Morgan, perhaps a mile from downtown Washington. Of course
>I work in the heart of DC, in the lobbyist corridor, blocks from the White
>House and agencies like the FCC. (Note to terrorists: the Pentagon is miles
>away, on the other side of the Potomac. Take the blue or yellow Metro
>lines. You can lug your H-bomb through the handicapped turnstiles for no
>additional fee.)

(Tariq, make note of this!)

>I've tentatively decided against moving all the way to West Virginia, which
>is 60 miles away. I'm now thinking of moving around 40 miles out, close to
>the WV border tho still in Virginia. Main reason is the commute. But it'll
>still be in farm country.

Someplace like Leesburg? Horse country.

>Still, as I've said before, if terrorists are going to blow anything up, it
>makes more sense for them to go after Manhattan. Though it is on an island,
>which might make logistics and escape (?) difficult.

Depends on what the goal is. I would assume Iraq would be a lot more
interested in making a symbolically important statement by hitting the
capital of the Great Satan (Tariq, help me out here).

If the goal is simple disruption of finances, NYC is probably a better goal
(though a hit on D.C. would trigger lots of chaos, too). If the goal is
killing people, I'm not sure what the best target would be...it might be
some other city completely, depending on wind conditions, presence of
refineries and oil storage tanks, dams, etc.

But I would bet on D.C. being Ground Zero for all the various freedom
fighters the U.S. colonialist/paternalistic superpower actions have pissed
off.

Of course, hitting _both_ D.C. and NYC might make a lot of sense.
Especially in case one bomb fizzles. If they have several suitcase nukes,
it makes more sense to deploy them in several cities than to have the damge
zones overlap (or even have one blast affect the later bombs).

Timing could be within seconds easily enough, but even spaced hours apart
there would be virtually no chance for NEST to find them.

Just Say No to "Big Brother Inside"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^3,021,377   | black markets, collapse of governments.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ghio@temp0209.myriad.ml.org (Matthew Ghio)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 03:12:29 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: the best justice money can buy --Lessig suspended
In-Reply-To: <19980203.154218.attila@hun.org>
Message-ID: <199802071906.OAA06180@myriad>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Tim May wrote:

> (The real issue is going to be Web servers. Whether Netscape can prosper
> in the world that is coming is unclear.)
[snip]
> Looks to me like Intel is the real winner here.

Apache currently represents over 50% of the web servers in use.  Even
Microsoft can't compete with that.  Microsoft's growth in web servers has
been largely at Netscape's expense.  So Netscape's move to the freeware
market is not unexpected, but it's a bit late; they should have been
pushing Linux/FreeBSD/etc to their NT customers long ago.

The issue of differing tactics of Intel versus Microsoft has a lot to do
with why Microsoft is getting scrutinized while Intel is largely being
left alone, despite their similiar market share.

The first difference is product quality.  I have an Intel Pentium which
has been working flawlessly for months.  Microsoft Windows, on the other
hand, can't go two days without getting screwed up in one way or another.
Intel has had two or three major flaws in their products in the last few
years (FDIV, F00F, and the fpu flag problem).  Microsoft gets blamed for
new flaws every week.  Guess which company I have a higher opinion of?
I am certainly not the only one who feels this way.

Second, Microsoft is rude, arrogant, and offensive.  They absolutely do
not know when to quit, no matter how much bad publicity it gets them.
Intel's behaviour hasn't been exemplary recently either, but they do know
when to back off.  Intel got in a little argument with Robert Collins a
few years ago, but once the bad PR started, they left him alone.
Microsoft, in contrast, has repeatedly harassed anti-microsoft web sites
(such as www.micr0soft.com) kicked anti-microsoft people out of comdex,
and so on.  Like Scientology, such tactics usually only increase the
attacks from critics.

Intel's handling of the "slot 1" was a major mistake.  Intel came off
appearing to be a bully trying to squash competition, which earned them a
lot of bad press.  Settling with Cyrix/NatSemi was a smart move (which
they should have done earlier).  But at least Intel knew when to cut their
losses and move on to other things.  Contrast that with Microsoft's
adamant, pig-headed pursuit of their bundling strategy; no matter how much
bad publicity it gets them, they keep doggedly trying to shove it down
people's throats.

So next time you're meeting with Intel management, remind them that if
they make quality products, their customers will be happy.  If they sell
lousy products and attack their opponents, they will get attacked back.

(And Intel- please stop telling us about how great your secret
proprietary bus interfaces are, we don't want to hear it, and it makes
you look bad.)





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 05:34:12 +0800
To: Tim May 
Subject: Re: Washington on the verge of being nuked?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 12:02 -0800 2/7/98, Tim May wrote:
>Of course, after such an attack, though hundreds of thousands of criminals
>may be disposed of in Washington, martial law and a suspension of the
>Constitution can be expected. So it won't be all good news. And financial
>chaos may reign if business centers are hit.
>
>Downtown Washington is the last place I'd want to be. For multiple reasons.

I live in Adams Morgan, perhaps a mile from downtown Washington. Of course
I work in the heart of DC, in the lobbyist corridor, blocks from the White
House and agencies like the FCC. (Note to terrorists: the Pentagon is miles
away, on the other side of the Potomac. Take the blue or yellow Metro
lines. You can lug your H-bomb through the handicapped turnstiles for no
additional fee.)

I've tentatively decided against moving all the way to West Virginia, which
is 60 miles away. I'm now thinking of moving around 40 miles out, close to
the WV border tho still in Virginia. Main reason is the commute. But it'll
still be in farm country.

Still, as I've said before, if terrorists are going to blow anything up, it
makes more sense for them to go after Manhattan. Though it is on an island,
which might make logistics and escape (?) difficult.

-Declan






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 01:00:56 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Ziff-Davis on AP
Message-ID: <199802071651.RAA08477@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/content/zdnn/0206/282755.html

> Pie attack has executives worried
> By Charles Cooper
> February 6, 1998 12:10 PM PST
> ZDNN 
> 
> This time it was a custard pie in the face. Could it just have
> easily been a bullet in the gut? 
> 
> That is the subject du jour among startled industry
> executives following the bizarre assault in Brussels
> Wednesday against Bill Gates. While en route to deliver a
> speech on technology and education, Microsoft's chief
> executive was nailed in the kisser by a local prankster who
> has made a reputation for pulling similar stunts. Gates, who
> was unhurt, suffered no more than a wound to his pride,
> soggy glasses, and an unexpected charge on his weekly
> cleaning bill. 
> 
[snip for fair use]





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 08:25:21 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Washington on the verge of being nuked?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Tim May  writes:
> Depends on what the goal is. I would assume Iraq would be a lot more
> interested in making a symbolically important statement by hitting the
> capital of the Great Satan (Tariq, help me out here).
>
> If the goal is simple disruption of finances, NYC is probably a better goal
> (though a hit on D.C. would trigger lots of chaos, too). If the goal is
> killing people, I'm not sure what the best target would be...it might be
> some other city completely, depending on wind conditions, presence of
> refineries and oil storage tanks, dams, etc.
>
> But I would bet on D.C. being Ground Zero for all the various freedom
> fighters the U.S. colonialist/paternalistic superpower actions have pissed
> off.

NYC is the seat of the United Nations.  It would make a good nuke target
during one of those UN events when a bunch of heads of state visit.

For an impact on the financial markets, nuke NYC and London at least.

NYC is also vulnerable to chemicals in the water system.

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nibor55@juno.com (robin parker)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 09:21:55 +0800
To: ashleeslut@hermama.com
Subject: "Ken and Brenda Kingston" : Telephone Scam Alert
Message-ID: <19980207.180654.3166.6.nibor55@juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



--------- Begin forwarded message ----------
From: "Ken and Brenda Kingston" 
To: "Bill Manago" ,"Ken Kingston"
,"Mark & Kay Barrett" ,"Mike
& Dianne Higgs" ,"Mike Roberts" ,
"Rachel M Parker" ,"Robin Parker" 
Subject: Telephone Scam Alert
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 20:07:14 -0700
Message-ID: <001601bd3375$82a232a0$b037c5a9@pc1>

I want to let all my friends know about this scam going around.  It does
not matter who your local or long distance carrier is, this can cost you
a
lot of money.  Please read and if you get a call like this, report it to
the police and the FCC.  If you have a caller ID, get the number too.

Subject: High Priority message

High Priority **

On Saturday,  24 January 1998, Naval Air Station, Joint Reserve Base,
New Orleans' Quarterdeck received a telephone call from an individual
identifying himself as an AT&T Service Technician that was running a
test on our telephone lines.  He stated that to complete the test the
QMOW should touch nine (9), zero (0), pound sign (#) and hang up.
Luckily, the QMOW was suspicious and refused.  Upon contacting the
telephone company we were informed that by pushing 90# you end up giving
the individual that called you access to your telephone line and
allows them to place a long distance telephone call, with the charge
appearing on your telephone call.  We were further informed that this
scam
has
been originating from many of the local jails/prisons.  Please "pass the
word".

Brenda


--------- End forwarded message ----------

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 08:40:08 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Washington on the verge of being nuked?
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980208003515.00744198@pop.pipeline.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Manhattan would be easily blown, remotely. Place a time-charge
beneath a car at the head each principal subway line (which
commence in other boroughs), set to blow at the main stations.

For the West Side, supplement with a charge in the PATH train 
from Jersey.

For the East Side, supplement with another in the LI Railroad 
from the Island.

Forget anything above 86th Street, they'll applaud; like the
WVA and VA hillfolks will hooray the destruction of see-navel 
DC and its high-pitch babbling wonks.

As will anyone of any capital (or high-tech vale), globally, not 
drunk with power or mad to get it.

That's what horrifies the powerful about of terrorists: they're both
spitting images of their opponents. Both willing to kill indiscriminately 
for vainglory of blind faith and ambition. Both willing to betray
their kind for a step up.

Probably the stealth bombers will led by a highly trained ex-, 
or covert member, or Top Gun grad, of a duly authorized 
terrorist, wing, sub, cell set up to kill for a culture's honor and
commerce -- for blood-drenched national security. USG
and IraqG, any G, joined at birth, never separated, working
in concert.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: contest@compbroker.com
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 03:58:26 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Monthly memory giveaway - now win up to 64 Megabytes of Memory!
Message-ID: <854712721210.8391275815@compbroker.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



      For the February 1st Drawing, our grand prize winner of the
                            64MB Memory is

                     Michael Rowe of Akron, OH

You could be the next lucky winner!

The Memory Broker has increased it's prizes.  Every month
we will select 3 random winners from our contest database.
The First Place winnner (i.e. first name drawn) wins an incredible 64Mb of RAM, 2nd place wins 32MB of EDO RAM, and the third lucky winner gets 16MB of RAM.  You can also apply the winning memory as credit towards a future order.

No purchase is necessary to win.  Winners are selected by a random drawing, so the more times you enter (once per day only please), the better your chances to win!

Enter Now at http://www.compbroker.com/

Good Luck!

The Memory Broker Inc.
http://www.compbroker.com
contest@compbroker.com






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 11:39:36 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re:  BBN
Message-ID: <199802080315.WAA06152@panix2.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Haven't met a cypherpunks digest I like yet.

In the mean time, I'm going to have a little fun.

----

   >   From dlv@bwalk.dm.com Sat Feb  7 01:46:44 1998
   >   To: cypherpunks@toad.com
   >   Subject: BBN
   >   
   >   I have decided to come out of my cave and say it:
   >   
   >      I want to suck John Gilmore's cock.
   >
   >   Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
   >   Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

That's understandable Dimitry...Marina must taste like dead fish.
---guy





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Alan Tu 
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 11:39:31 +0800
To: Cypher Punks Mailing List 
Subject: What's the latest in factoring?
Message-ID: <199802072222_MC2-3262-79F5@compuserve.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Hi all,

First, I want to say that because I've heard that traffic on this list is
heavy, and I don't have time to file away 40 messages a day, you must
write to me personally in order for me to see the message.  My PGP key is
provided at the end of this message.

What is the latest factoring breakthrough (at least in the civilian
world?)  I had heard a while back that the most recent event was
accomplished by Samuel Wagstaff of Purdue University, whose team factored
(3^349-1)/2, which is a 167-digit number (about 552 bits).  Is there
anything more recent?  Also, whereas 1024 bits was the commonly accepted
threshhold for key lengths more than two years ago, what's the threshhold
now?  Because I have DOS (and like it) I use PGP 2.63ix, when should I
retire my 1024-bit key?  I don't expect anybody to answer that I should
do so immediately, but can someone give me an idea on what people are
doing in regard to key length?

Sincerely,

Alan Tu


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3i
Charset: noconv
Comment: Requires PGP version 2.6 or later.

iQCVAwUBNN0kkJezmBrl2RXhAQGxnAP9HyIvtTcOeN77s3p80OmSefhagtfxQGEm
H3NqWzxrqEvfODat63UFDVxcf28cSSog3666Icys1nLY9JhNSFZrruejbRIJ6P4o
AKHfxBwUSO00GvSyCl9nI5VjJDoRG2elDZf7iPP1M9h+IoTXuSDpdWnL9uBpqhvi
SFg4sXOKEOA=
=co6G
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Type Bits/KeyID    Date       User ID
pub  1024/E5D915E1 1997/04/27 Alan Tu 
                              Alan Tu <102534.2165@compuserve.com>

-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
Version: 2.6.3i
Comment: Requires PGP version 2.6 or later.
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=CM85
-----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 06:16:29 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Monthly memory giveaway - now win up to 64 Megabytes of Memory!
In-Reply-To: <854712721210.8391275815@compbroker.com>
Message-ID: <199802072158.WAA15417@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Thank you for contacting us to request a security audit of your web site.
Based on the information you provided, we have determined that you were
running an insecure operating system (Microsoft Windows NT) as evidenced
by the blue screen currently visible on your computer monitor.  Should you
wish further investigation of your site vulnerabilities, please continue
to send us annoying spam requests.


contest@compbroker.com wrote:

>       For the February 1st Drawing, our grand prize winner of the
>                             64MB Memory is
> 
>                      Michael Rowe of Akron, OH
> 
> You could be the next lucky winner!
> 
> The Memory Broker has increased it's prizes.  Every month
> we will select 3 random winners from our contest database.
> The First Place winnner (i.e. first name drawn) wins an incredible 64Mb of
> RAM,
> 2nd place wins 32MB of EDO RAM, and the third lucky winner gets 16MB of RAM. 
> You can also apply the winning memory as credit towards a future order.
> 
> No purchase is necessary to win.  Winners are selected by a random drawing,
> so the more times you enter (once per day only please), the better your
> chances to win!
> 
> Enter Now at http://www.compbroker.com/
> 
> Good Luck!
> 
> The Memory Broker Inc.
> http://www.compbroker.com
> contest@compbroker.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 13:40:08 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Galombos and a World where Ideas can be Protected (fwd)
Message-ID: <199802080535.XAA12696@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 10:33:41 -0800
> From: Tim May 
> Subject: Galombos and a World where Ideas can be Protected

> >If there were no copyright, markets for information and entertainment
> >would definitely have evolved differently than they have in the US
> >and Europe, and would use much different mechanisms for getting money
> >to the producers of information, such as standard sale contracts.*
> ....
> 
> It's always hard to say how reality would look in a different universe, one
> with, say, no copyright laws.

Agreed, however the motivations that drive people to creative or
constructive acts wouldn't change.

> However, we have some indications, because there are some things which are
> very much like "intellectual property" which, in fact, have no protection
> in the courts.
> 
> Namely, _ideas_.
> 
> For better or for worse, ideas are not protected against copying, use, etc.

Agreed, but the ability to carry through on them *is* criticaly dependant
upon the social and technological infrastructure of the participants. 

> And yet society works fine. Those who keep coming up with ideas find ways
> to keep coming up with ideas, and often to prosper, as writers,
> consultants, etc., often because of their ability to generate ideas.

True, but what you are leaving out is their ability to impliment those
ideas, which most certainly depends upon the infrastructure that surrounds
them. Ideas abhor a vacuum. In such an environment it is reasonable to
assume that people would not loose their basic instincts, among them greed.
So it is clear that people would not stop having ideas, but the milieu of
those ideas would be restrictive and most probably very paranoid. If you
learned of a particular process or idea it would not be in your best
interest to pass it around. Further it would be very difficult to trust
others because there would be no consequence to them taking your idea and
using their resources (which the creator was depending on to actualize the
concepts) to create the end product themselves. Remember the prisoners
dilema here...

> Think about an alternate world where ideas are protectable before saying a
> world without copyrights would collapse inevitably.

This is a straw man. We are discussing the issue of what would be reasonable
to expect considering human nature in an environment where there was *no*
protection of ideas and no redress of grievances through a legal system.
Intellectual anarchy if you will.


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |       The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate,       |
   |       but the desire to edit somebody elses words.                 |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                  Sign in Ed Barsis' office         |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 13:46:15 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: the best justice money can buy --Lessig (fwd)
Message-ID: <199802080545.XAA12816@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 18:12:38 -0800
> Original-From: Bill Stewart 
> Subject: Re: the best justice money can buy --Lessig (fwd)

> >If there were no copyright nobody would have any reason to market 
> >software or much else for that matter. I would predict that much of 
> >the technology and infrastructure we have now wouldn't exist. 
> >It would also stiffle [sic] creativity and new methodologies because 
> >there would be no profit in it to recoup development costs.
> 
> If there were no copyright, markets for information and entertainment
> would definitely have evolved differently than they have in the US
> and Europe, and would use much different mechanisms for getting money
> to the producers of information, such as standard sale contracts.*
> On the other hand, if there were no colonialism, markets for sheep in
> New Zealand would have evolved much differently than they did,
> a problem they're now gradually working their way out of.

The point is that it would *not* effect single instances or markets, it
would effect the very fabric of trust that is inherent in a society that
rewards creativity. If there were no copyrights and by extension no
protection for the creator or implimentor of an idea we would have a
situation where the groups with the resources would be the ones able to best
actualize and therefore reap the benefits of ideas. In such an environment
why would some individual choose to go head to head in a battle they
couldn't win due to resources and a lack of a standard infrastructure?
They wouldn't, they'd go back home and grow food and mind their own
business. They wouldn't exchange ideas because it could be taken as a given
that mail and other forms of non-direct communications would be insecure.
>From this we can deduce that the actual target of delivery would very likely
not receive it and that some intermediary would in fact take possession of
that material and take advantage of it. So we can assume that people would
not work on colaborations bigger than their immediate neighborhood. Now it
is also clear that within that neighborhood some will have more resources to
actualize ideas in respect to many of those who actualy create the ideas.
In such an environment why would the individual increase this parties
resource share to their own detriment? They wouldn't.

> Copyright is certainly a major market convenience, because it means
> that individual authors, middlemen, and readers don't have to
> negotiate contracts each time they trade information for money,
> or having to read the annoying shrink-wrap licenses on books
> the way they did for a while on packaged software.  It also
> makes it more difficult for alternative mechanisms to evolve,
> because it's got an 800-pound well-armed gorilla subsidizing it.

The protection of ideas and the reaping of the actualization of the creation
going to the creator is the issue, copyright is simply one of many
mechanisms that impliment this fundamental belief of who should benefit. If
we do away with this we are also doing away with a much deeper and
fundamental aspect of modern society, trust that our toil will benefit us in
the end.


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |       The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate,       |
   |       but the desire to edit somebody elses words.                 |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                  Sign in Ed Barsis' office         |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Shostack 
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 16:25:05 +0800
To: tcmay@got.net
Subject: Re: Most elegant wording against privacy/law-enforcement "balance"
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199802080814.DAA03319@homeport.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Tim May wrote:
|Jim wrote:
| >The most detailed research on the issue is a study by Dorothy Denning
| >and William Baugh investigating the extent to which crypto has
| >interfered with law enforcement's ability to get convictions: their
| >bottom line was that crypto has not in fact interfered: law enforcement
| >has been able to complete their investigations using other means.
| >There's no demonstrated need for Government Access to Crypto Keys
| >(GACK), so there's no need to compromise away our privacy.
| 
| Bluntly pu, "FUCK "DEMONSTRATED NEED"!"
| 
| And what if Denning and Baugh had reached other conclusions? (As well they
| might, next year, when crypto is more widely deployed.)

	Its a utilitarian, and useful argument to point out that the
Clipper Chick has been forced to change her position based on observed
reality.  Its not the basis of our moral argument, only pointing out
that the only academic to hold a position not in line with ours was
intellectually honest enough to say she's unsupported by the facts.

	This is not to say that crypto is ok as long as it doesn't
matter, or the police have legitamate needs that they may define, but
that when their own spokespeople reject them, its a powerful argument.

	Much as you rejoice in terrorist use of encryption, I rejoice
in being able to quote Dorothy Denning. :)

	(I have a great deal of respect for Dorothy Denning's
willingness to take and argue unpopular positions, and change her mind
when proven wrong.)

Adam

-- 
"It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once."
					               -Hume






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 16:36:07 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Most elegant wording against privacy/law-enforcement "balance"
In-Reply-To: <9802070144.AA11833@mentat.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980208073437.007cd710@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>> What are the most elegant rebuttals to politicians saying we
>> need Key Recovery as a "reasonable balance between the needs of
>> law enforcement vs. freedom of crypto"?

Someone, probably Jim Ray, has a nice phrase about
"Protecting the Fourth Amendment _is_ one of the legitimate needs
of law enforcement."  It's not an in-depth critique, but it's enough to
get a rant off to a good start, where you're on the moral high ground,
rather than the "Even the FBI's friends like Dorothy haven't found
a legitimate need for increasing wiretaps", which is a useful place
to go as long as you're already ahead.
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 22:16:14 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re[2]: SEC Rule Announcement
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


From: jmuller@brobeck.com
X-Server-Uuid: b0fe6c76-9e59-11d1-b373-00805fa7c2de
MIME-Version: 1.0
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 14:39:08 -0800
Subject: Re[2]: SEC Rule Announcement
To: "Robert Hettinga" , ,
        "Arnold G. Reinhold" 
X-WSS-ID: 18C49FCB618-18C49FCB619-01
Sender: bounce-dcsb@ai.mit.edu
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: jmuller@brobeck.com

     This is actually an NASD rule change; the SEC reviews proposed NASD
     rule changes and almost always approves them.  The NASD rule change is
     in Notice to Members 98-11 (available at
     http://www.nasdr.com/2610.htm), and was approved by the SEC on
     December 31, 1997, effective February 15.

     The NASD views the change as simply clarifying a requirement that was
     already in place:  the rule previously required that NASD member
     broker/dealers establish procedures for the review of all
     correspondence relating to solicitation or execution of securities
     transactions.  The rule as amended will state that these procedures
     must apply to all incoming and outgoing written and electronic
     correspondence with the public relating to the firm's investment
     banking or securities business.  The rule itself does not say anything
     about home offices, but in the introduction to the rule, the NASD says
     that it will "expect members to prohibit correspondence with customers
     from employees' home computers or through third party systems unless
     the firm is capable of monitoring such communications."

     My mama taught me if I can't say anything nice, I shouldn't say
     anything at all, so I will not comment on the rule.  If you're
     interested enough to go to the NASD Web site shown above, you will
     probably also want to look at Notice to Members 98-3, which sets out
     general principles for electronic delivery of information between
     brokers and their customers.


     John Muller
     mailto:jmuller@brobeck.com

For help on using this list (especially unsubscribing), send a message to
"dcsb-request@ai.mit.edu" with one line of text: "help".

--- end forwarded text



-----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/
Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: 






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Duncan Frissell 
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 23:07:29 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: the best justice/kinds of monopolies
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980208100314.03723538@panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 05:41 PM 2/6/98 -0800, bill.stewart@pobox.com wrote:

>I don't care if they call their boss Grand Wazoo Snail Mail Evangelist;
>there are software and ice cream companies that use non-standard titles too.
>"Postal Inspector" is a much more serious problem title, since they
>seem to have quasi-police powers to do criminal investigations of
>postal offenses like pornography and pyramid scams and running competing
>formatted-tree-product information delivery services.

A few years ago, they actually said that they stopped the armed raids on corporate mailrooms to investigate the crime of using Fedex for non-critical First Class deliveries.  The Postal Inspectors are still Peace Officers, however.  But then so are the Railroad Police.

DCF





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 00:00:57 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Soft Tempest
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980208154341.00728278@pop.pipeline.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



To: ukcrypto@maillist.ox.ac.uk
Subject: It is really me - the story of Soft Tempest
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 15:09:40 +0000
From: Ross Anderson 

Bruce Sterling, and others, have asked of the Washington Post story
[see below]:

> Is this story correct?

The Washington Post gives a highly distorted account of some very
important scientific work we have done. I suggest that list members
read our paper -  - for
themselves before getting carried away.

The story is as follows. Bill G gave our department $20m for a new
building, and his people said that what they really wanted from our
group was a better way to control software copying.  So it would have
been rather churlish of us not to at least look at their `problem'.

Now the `final solution' being peddled by the smartcard industry (and
others) is to make software copying physically impossible, by tying
program execution to a unique tamper-resistant hardware token. We
wouldn't like to see this happen, and we have already done a lot to
undermine confidence in the claims of tamper-proofness made by
smartcard salesmen.

So Markus and I sat down and tried to figure out what we could do for
the Evil Empire. We concluded that 

(1)  large companies generally pay for their software; 

(2)  if you try to coerce private individuals, the political backlash 
     would be too much; 

so 

(3)  if the Evil Empire is to increase its revenue by cracking down on
     piracy, the people to go after are medium sized companies.

So the design goal we set ourselves was a technology that would enable
software vendors to catch the medium-sized offender - the dodgy
freight company that runs 70 copies of Office 97 but only paid for one
- while being ineffective against private individuals.

We succeeded.

In the process we have made some fundamental discoveries about
Tempest. Army signals officers, defence contractors and spooks have
been visibly flabberghasted to hear our ideas or see our demo.

In the old days, Tempest was about expensive hardware - custom
equipment to monitor the enemy's emissions and very tricky shielding
to stop him doing the same to you. It was all classified and strictly
off-limits to the open research community.

We have ended that era. You can now use software to cause the
eavesdropper in the van outside your house to see a completely
different image from the one that you see on your screen. In its
simplest form, our technique uses specially designed `Tempest fonts'
to make the text on your screen invisible to the spooks. Our paper
tells you how to design and code your own.

There are many opportunities for camouflage, deception and misconduct.
For example, you could write a Tempest virus to snarf your enemy's PGP
private key and radiate it without his knowledge by manipulating the
dither patterns in his screen saver. You could even pick up the signal
on a $100 short wave radio. The implications for people trying to
build secure computer systems are non-trivial.

Anyway, we offered Bill G the prospect that instead of Word radiating
the text you're working on to every spook on the block, it would only
radiate a one-way function of its licence serial number.  This would
let an observer tell whether two machines were simultaneously running
the same copy of Word, but nothing more. Surely a win-win situation,
for Bill and for privacy.

But Microsoft turned down our offer. I won't breach confidences, but
the high order bit is that their hearts are set on the kind of
technology the smartcard people are promising - one that will
definitively prevent all copying, even by private individuals. We
don't plan to help them on that, and I expect that if they field
anything that works, the net result will be to get Microsoft
dismembered by the Department of Justice.

Meantime we want our Soft Tempest technology to be incorporated in 
as many products as possible - and not just security products!

So to Rainier Fahs, who asked:

> If these rumors are true, I guess we will face a similar discussion on
> free availability in the area of TEMPEST equipment. Does privacy
> protection also include the free choice of protection mechanism?

I say this: our discovery, that Tempest protection can be done in
software as well as hardware, puts it beyond the reach of effective
export control. So yes, you now have a choice. You didn't before,

Ross Anderson

----------

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPlate/1998-02/07/060l-020798-idx.html

British Technology Might Flush Out Software Pirates

By John Burgess
Washington Post Foreign Service
Saturday, February 7, 1998; Page H01 

CAMBRIDGE, England- It's a technique that intelligence
agencies have used for years: Park a van filled with
monitoring gear near an embassy and listen for the faint radio
signals that computers routinely emit when they are on.
Analyze those signals for clues to the data that are on the
computers.

Now researchers at the University of Cambridge, home of
groundbreaking work in intelligence over the years, are trying
to adapt this technology to the fight against software piracy.
With special code written into software, they say, computers
could be made to broadcast beacons that would carry several
hundred yards and identify the software they were running,
complete with serial numbers of each copy.

Vans run by anti-piracy groups could pull up outside a
company's office and count the number of software signals
emanating from it. If, say, 50 beacons for a particular title
were detected but the company had licensed only two copies
of the software, that could become evidence on which a court
would issue a search warrant.

Ross Anderson, a University of Cambridge lecturer who is
overseeing the project, said the idea originated last year when
Microsoft Corp. Chairman Bill Gates visited the university
after his private foundation announced a $20 million donation
to the school. Gates told officials that, among other things, he
would love the university to come up with new anti-piracy
techniques.

So far, Microsoft isn't enthusiastic about the university's
approach, Anderson said. "They have some reservations.
Obviously there are Big Brother aspects," he said. A
Microsoft spokeswoman said the company has no plans to
adapt the technology.

Emilia Knight, a vice president at BSA Europe, a trade group
that combats software piracy, said such an anti-piracy system
might be technically feasible. But she noted many practical
questions on the legal side, such as how the system would
differentiate between companies pirating software and those
legally using multiple copies of programs.

Knight said that concerns of privacy and consumer rights
might make the system a no-go for industrialized countries.
But in places like Eastern Europe, she suggested, where piracy
is rampant and there is no tradition of such protections, the
software signal detectors might be acceptable.

Richard Sobel, a political scientist who teaches at Harvard
University and researches privacy issues, called it "an
appalling idea."

"If the technology is there to identify what software people are
using, there's the prospect to figure out what people are doing.
. . . It sounds like a horrible violation of privacy," Sobel said.

In Britain, however, it might seem less controversial. Here
authorities have long used similar techniques to ferret out
people who fail to pay the annual license fee of about $150
that the law requires for each TV set in the country.

Cruising the streets here are vans carrying equipment that can
detect emissions from a TV set's "local oscillator," the part
that turns a station's signal into a picture. If the gear senses a
TV set inside a house from which there is no record of a
license payment, this is used as evidence to levy fines.

The system also can tell what channel people are watching
because the oscillator gives off a slightly different signal for
each one.

Anderson's researchers have built a prototype that can detect
the type of software running on a machine from short range --
the hallway outside the room where the computer is running.
Anderson said they are ready to build prototype hardware
with a longer range, at a cost of about $15,000-$30,000 -- if
the lab can find a customer. So far, none has stepped forward.

(c) Copyright 1998 The Washington Post Company

----------

Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 13:05:45 -0500
From: Stewart Baker 
To: ukcrypto 
Subject: Ross, Is that really you?
     
     Today's Washington Post claims that a Cambridge research team led by one 
     Ross Anderson is developing technology that would require all personal 
     computers to broadcast the identity of all programs they are running so 
     that anti-piracy investigators can sit outside universities and businesses 
     and check to see whether the folks inside are running more programs than 
     their licenses allow.  
     
     The article says that even Microsoft thinks this might go too far in 
     invading the privacy of computer users. But advocates for the technology 
     claim that it will work fine in benighted Eastern European countries where 
     piracy is rampant and the natives are used to having their privacy invaded.
     
     This raises at least three questions:
     
     1.  Is this story correct?
     
     2.  If so, is the Ross Anderson it describes the same Ross Anderson known 
     on this list for his attacks on Big Brother?
     
     3.  If so, are we to understand that Ross objects not so much to invading 
     privacy as to government competition in that endeavor?
     
     Stewart Baker






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 01:06:35 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: the best justice money can buy --Lessig (fwd)
Message-ID: <199802081704.LAA14031@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 21:13:43 -0800
> Original-From: Bill Stewart 
> Subject: Re: the best justice money can buy --Lessig (fwd)

> At 08:21 AM 2/6/98 -0600, Jim Choate wrote:
> > Let's give the market another 5-10 years and see where Linux
> >stands. Right now the estimate is 6-10 million users world wide use it. Share
> >wise that isn't a lot. The reason that Linux garners so much press right now
> >is that it is in fact an exception when an organization uses the software
> >(eg NASA). The test will be whether it grows significantly over the long
> >run and not the 5 years that Linux has been a serious os.
> 
> Sharewise, that's not bad for a system that had 1 million users a 
> year or two ago, though of course it gains a lot of extra slack
> because it's quasi-free Unix on an affordable platform.

I agree.

> Getting that much desktop support without running MSOffice is
> impressive.

Is it? The vast majority of those users are non-commercial users. The number
of US users, currently estimated at 6M is *not* significantly different than
the number of home users of C64's and Amiga's (both machines had a very poor
commercial market penetration) and also had maximum market penetrations in
the 6M range. This consistency would seem to indicate to me that there
is a significant overlap in the home users and the Linux community and that
this community stays reasonably stable as a constant percentage of total
population and not the software alone. The question at this point is how
will this number change over the next 2 years or so. If we don't see a
significant rise in this percentage then I would suspect Linux will never
succeed in making a serious bid for MS parity. It is still a rare thing for
an employer to provide Linux as a the default os on a new-hires pc. How many
companies do you know that when a person comes in and configures their pc it
contains Linux by default? Not many. Further that percentage is *not*
increasing at any sort of significant rates. I would prophecy that you will
have to wait a long(!) time before you can expect your local grocery store
(HEB here uses Win95 and various Unix'es for back-office and check-out) or
bank to be using it as a de facto standard.

Also, considering that the folks who are making money on Linux are the
distributors. How have they faired over the last 4-5 years? If you go to your
1st year Linux Journals (only 12/yr. and the Feb. 98 is #46) and compare it
to your current issue how do the number of distributors fair? It turns out
there are only a few major distirbutors (Red Hat, Slackware, InfoMagic,
Walnut Creek, SuSE) and some of the early distributors have seen a
significant decrease in their market share (eg Ygddrasil). So even in the
Linux community we have seen a *decrease* in the *commercial* enterprises
who have succeeded? Why? Because users like to have the same distribution as
their friends so that they have some hope of resolving their problems. So
what you see (and this is from my 4+ years working with Linux user groups)
is that the majority of members of a given user group will have only 1 or 2
distributions and unless you have one of those most of them will be very
hesitant to work on it because of the ignorance factor of the special
features and changes of each distribution. The local Austin Linux Group
(alg-l@lists.io.com) for example is moving currently from Red Hat to SuSE
because of the superior, and propietary - I would add, X-windows and RPM
modifications they have made.



    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |       The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate,       |
   |       but the desire to edit somebody elses words.                 |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                  Sign in Ed Barsis' office         |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Veral 
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 01:24:38 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199802081713.LAA09053@harper.uchicago.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



CAn I join?


Your Pal,

V.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 02:06:15 +0800
To: ravage@ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Subject: Re: the best justice money can buy --Lessig (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199802081704.LAA14031@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <199802081759.LAA15724@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Jim Choate wrote:
> succeed in making a serious bid for MS parity. It is still a rare thing for
> an employer to provide Linux as a the default os on a new-hires pc. How many
> companies do you know that when a person comes in and configures their pc it
> contains Linux by default? Not many. Further that percentage is *not*S

This is true, but you have to keep it in the right perspective. The
much more interesting question is a broader one: how widespread is GNU
copyrighted freeware?

One can configure a Sun workstation so that it looks, works and feels like
a Linux system, runs things like elm, fvwm2, vim, GNU utilities,
and so on.  I have seen a lot of such configurations, and in fact I do
use one like that myself.

How many millions more of these do exist?

[I think that Sun workstations in their default configurations suck big
time as far as user friendliness is concerned. They have the balls to
ship an OS where the Page Up key does not work with the default editor]

	- Igor.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 01:13:44 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Soft Tempest
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980208170553.0074d0bc@pop.pipeline.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Much praise is due Markus and Ross for their astonishing
accomplishment in long-neglected Tempest research.

Their paper is surely causing sleeplessness in dens of
TEMPESTed security agencies accustomed to having
singular self-privacy and others-invasiveness via this 
technology. 

Microsoft is to be praised for funding the right thing for the 
wrong reasons, or perhaps Mr. Gates foresaw what the 
outcome would be and merely needs intel deniability,
nicely aided by Ross's zipperedness -- that, too, well done.

The Wash Post spin of the story is itself complicitous,
as was Mr. Baker's enticement. Thanks to both for aiding 
the incovert global revelation.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 02:05:00 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Another Linus market observation...
Message-ID: <199802081806.MAA14516@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Hi,

Another Linux market observation that would indicate that the total impact
of Linux is going to be less than what we as Linux supporters would want
is the literature that has arisen about Linux. In particular the count of
monthly magazines. Linux has a roughly 6M user market penetration yet there
is only a single Linux specific magazine available. In the comparative
markets of C64 and Amiga there were several (eg Amiga World, Info, Compute!)
magazines. Even today there are at least 3 Amiga magazines on the market yet
that machine hasn't been actively manufactured in over 2 years. Why is the
Linux magazine market limited to The Linux Journal? And what does that mean
for the long term strength of the market (and by extension the hurdles other
OS's would face in the future)?


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |       The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate,       |
   |       but the desire to edit somebody elses words.                 |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                  Sign in Ed Barsis' office         |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 02:22:20 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: the best justice money can buy --Lessig (fwd)
Message-ID: <199802081824.MAA14700@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Subject: Re: the best justice money can buy --Lessig (fwd)
> Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 11:59:01 -0600 (CST)
> From: ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home)

> Jim Choate wrote:
> > succeed in making a serious bid for MS parity. It is still a rare thing for
> > an employer to provide Linux as a the default os on a new-hires pc. How many
> > companies do you know that when a person comes in and configures their pc it
> > contains Linux by default? Not many. Further that percentage is *not*S
> 
> This is true, but you have to keep it in the right perspective. The
> much more interesting question is a broader one: how widespread is GNU
> copyrighted freeware?

Outside of Linux applications? Very small. I have never worked for a company
nor dealt with a customer who as a matter of course used GNU software and was
in fact the accepted cannon of that companies computer use policies.
Students, individual hobbyist, and small companies (one of the reasons I
focus on SOHO in my consulting) are the marked exceptions. The reason these
folks can get away with it is their customers if they have any are concerned
about the end product and not the process. This isn't true of larger
companies who are as concerned with the process because of the impact of
budgets, quality control, purchasing, etc.

> One can configure a Sun workstation so that it looks, works and feels like
> a Linux system, runs things like elm, fvwm2, vim, GNU utilities,
> and so on.  I have seen a lot of such configurations, and in fact I do
> use one like that myself.

As I do, I have a ELC and a Tadpole 3XP that I use Linux on as well as
Solaris. I also have a IBM N40 RS/6000 laptop that I run AIX 3.x and PPC
Linux on. I've been waiting 2 years for the Linux68k to be ported to the
Sun 4/380 platform so I can get rid of BSD on that machine, and the /dev/fb
for the Tadpole on Linux SPARC has been in the wings about that long as well.
In the Austin area (1M pop.), I have yet to find a single other soul who as
a matter of course uses Linux on those platforms. At best I know of about a
dozen people who play with it and every case I am the one who got them the CD
and prompted their activity. My experience would indicate the interest and by
extension future is not there for these platforms except as a point of
esoteric interest. Believe me, I *wish* I had more people to talk to and work
with on these platforms. I can kill just about any discussion in a Linux
user group meeting by asking about SPARC or PPC versions, nobody
(figuratively) uses them and nobody is really interested in learning about 
them.

I know of only a couple of articles in the Linux Journal that has even
discussed SPARC Linux (and that would indicate a lot of folks don't use it)
and have never seen a PPC article.

> How many millions more of these do exist?

Very few. The total number of SPARC or PPC (not Mac mkLinux) is measured in
the 10's of thousands at best. Consider that out of all the Linux
distributors only a couple carry SPARC or PPC versions.


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |       The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate,       |
   |       but the desire to edit somebody elses words.                 |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                  Sign in Ed Barsis' office         |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "WebWarrior3@InfoWar.Com" 
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 02:39:50 +0800
To: cypherpunks 
Subject: RE: SOFT TEMPEST
Message-ID: <34DDEB81.65726105@InfoWar.Com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Several of the servers where I work have multiple monitors.  While it is
rare that I have several instances of the same application being
displayed on these monitors, I do, at times, do just that.  Easier for
cutting and pasting large blocks from one to the other as well as other
editing of code.  So, when the software police pull up outside of my
place of business see that there are six instances of a program being
displayed with one license I can expect a warrant to be issued?  That
would suck.

Unfortunatley, I do not have the time to read through the entire
document at the URL provided, and can't save it either from the .pdf ...
the defensive measures sound interesting.

Also, does this only work with CRTs or can it detect LCD too?

Furthermore, it was written:

>So Markus and I sat down and tried to figure out what we could do for
>the Evil Empire. We concluded that

>(1)  large companies generally pay for their software;

>(2)  if you try to coerce private individuals, the political backlash
>   would be too much;
>so
>(3)  if the Evil Empire is to increase its revenue by cracking down on
>      piracy, the people to go after are medium sized companies.

I have worked on contract with several 'large' companies who are running
illegal copies of software, often without the knowledge of the sys
admin...better check those 'findings.'

Scott R. Brower
http://www.infowar.com
http://www.efflorida.org







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 02:33:51 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: GNU market penetration...
Message-ID: <199802081837.MAA14861@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Hi,

I have a question, after going to the GNU homepage (www.gnu.org) I have not
been able to find out the numbers of how many if any corporate subscribers
and participants to the GNU Foundation. Is there anyone out there who might
have a pointer to this information, or better yet is an actual participant
in the GNU heirarchy and can discuss these and related issues?

Thanks.


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |       The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate,       |
   |       but the desire to edit somebody elses words.                 |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                  Sign in Ed Barsis' office         |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 03:03:32 +0800
To: users@ssz.com (SSZ User Mail List)
Subject: New x86 clones & Linus Torvalds (Linux fame)
Message-ID: <199802081857.MAA15107@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> X-within-URL: http://techweb.cmp.com/eet/column1/wintel19.html

>                       HOT X86 CHIPS FOR '98 AND BEYOND
>                                        
>    
>    [INLINE] Launching yet another x86 microprocessor into a field already
>    crowded with clones isn't a good way to bet your company's future. But
>    that's just what two startups and one CPU stalwart are doing, in a bid
>    to beat Intel at its own game.
>    
>    The new ventures--Centaur Technology Inc. (Austin, Texas) and
>    Transmeta Corp. (Santa Clara, Calif.)--and long-time player Advanced
>    Micro Devices Inc. (Sunnyvale, Calif.) each has its own twist on what
>    it will take to survive in the cutthroat x86 world in 1998 and beyond.
>    Let's take them one at a time.
>    
>    Centaur, founded by renowned microprocessor architect Glenn Henry, is
>    focusing on the low end of the market, where sub-$1,000 desktop
>    machines and sub-$2,000 notebooks rule. Centaur's offering, launched
>    only a few months ago, is called the IDT WinChip C6 ("IDT" stands for
>    Integrated Device Technology Inc., which owns Centaur). It's a
>    Pentium-class processor that supports the MMX multimedia
>    instruction-set extensions, a Socket-7 interface, and comes in speed
>    grades of 180-MHz and 200-MHz. Centaur is positioning the C6 as a
>    direct alternative to Intel's Pentium with MMX, AMD's K6, and Cyrix's
>    6x86MX microprocessors.
>    
>    From a design standpoint, what's interesting about the C6 is that
>    Henry chose not to follow the reigning trends in chip architecture.
>    Instead, he took a downsized approach, implementing just those
>    features he needed to deliver decent performance in a high-volume,
>    low-cost CPU.
>    
>    "The biggest thing we did is throw out conventional thinking," Henry
>    told me when we met recently. "We came to the conclusion that the
>    added benefit of a lot of computer-science things wasn't worth the
>    effort. We're not superscalar--we don't do out-of-order execution.
>    Everyone else is designing 4-way superscalar processors, so we did a
>    6-way chip."
>    
>    In designing the C6, Henry said his team found that, as CPU clock
>    speeds approach 200-MHz, nearly half the time is spent waiting on the
>    bus. So, Henry outfitted the C6 with a huge translation-look-aside
>    buffer, as well as a second-level TLB, to reduce bus utilization and
>    cut that wait-time to the bone.
>    
>    Also notable is the fact that Centaur is a tiny outfit that began life
>    a scant two years ago. "Intel would like the world to believe it takes
>    tens of years and dozens of people to design a microprocessor," Henry
>    said. Looking at the results rolling out of Centaur, it's obvious what
>    a dedicated group of engineers can accomplish.
>    
>    Over at AMD, a somewhat larger engineering team is already burning the
>    midnight oil to design the K7 (code-named "Argon"), which will compete
>    with Intel's upcoming 64-bit Merced CPU.
>    
>    AMD has a project team hard at work on K7, but has leaked few details.
>    Publicly, AMD wants to talk more about its new MMX-enhanced K6
>    processors. But K7 will be the key to AMD's long-term future, since a
>    64-bit chip is a must-have for any company that wants to remain a
>    viable alternative to Intel.
>    
>    The few details we do know emerged in October in a keynote speech at
>    the Microprocessor Forum by AMD chairman Jerry Sanders. He said that
>    the K7 will run at clock speeds in excess of 500-MHz and will come in
>    a module that's mechanically--though not electrically--interchangeable
>    with Intel's Slot 1 connector. Most interesting was the news that K7
>    will use the bus protocol developed by Digital Equipment Corp. for its
>    Alpha EV-6 processor.
>    
>    It's not clear how far along AMD is with the K7. Indeed, it will be a
>    daunting task. But AMD has two things going for it in its quest.
>    First, it is very strong in the simulation and verification
>    department--an important factor in avoiding design flaws like the
>    floating-point bug that struck Intel and its Pentium.
>    
>    More important, AMD knows what it's like to wrestle with design
>    delays, which struck its K5 project. Concerns on the K6 job were
>    reportedly behind AMD's decision to purchase NexGen in January, 1996.
>    Indeed, the NexGen team provided the Nx586 core, which became the
>    basis for the K6.
>    
>    The third, and potentially most interesting, effort involves
>    Transmeta, a startup formed less than three years ago by former Sun
>    Microsystems chip architect David Ditzel. Initial word had Transmeta
>    at work on a PowerPC clone. Then, the buzz was that the company was
>    designing a Java chip aimed at the nascent market for low-cost network
>    computers. Now, it seems that Transmeta's effort is focused more on an
>    x86 alternative that boasts either low-power, multimedia or
>    network-computer capabilities. Or perhaps all three.
>    
>    One interesting tidbit to emerge from Transmeta is the news that it
>    has hired Linus Torvalds, the designer of the Linux operating system.
>    Apart from Torvalds' considerable software skills, he's plugged into
>    an influential community of Unix programmers, which could give
>    Transmeta a big leg up in any effort to design a processor tuned to
>    handle real-world networked applications.
>    
>    Alexander Wolfe is EE Times' Managing Editor for computers and
>    communications


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |       The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate,       |
   |       but the desire to edit somebody elses words.                 |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                  Sign in Ed Barsis' office         |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 03:37:05 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Another Linus market observation... (fwd)
Message-ID: <199802081936.NAA15377@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Subject: Re: Another Linus market observation...
> From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
> Date: Sun, 08 Feb 98 13:38:30 EST

> Jim Choate  writes:
> > monthly magazines. Linux has a roughly 6M user market penetration yet there
> > is only a single Linux specific magazine available. ...
> 
> I disagree.  There are plenty of printed publications about the hardware
> that Linux runs on (i.e. Intel and compatible boxes) (not that I read them).
> There are also rags about Unix, which are almost entirely applicable to Linux.

The problem with this interpretation of the market is that AmigaWorld, Info,
Compute!, etc. didn't cover the hardware to that great a degree. What they
did do was discuss the programming and applications of those machines to
problem solving, education, programming, etc.

This point isn't the hardware and it isn't selling magazines on related os's
that can be applied to Linux because of its similarity. The issue *is*
increasing Linux' market share, magazines that discuss issue about AIX or
HP/UX that can be applied to Linux don't do that.


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |       The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate,       |
   |       but the desire to edit somebody elses words.                 |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                  Sign in Ed Barsis' office         |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 03:38:08 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Guy Polis is a pedophile
In-Reply-To: <199802081713.LAA09053@harper.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Veral  writes:

> CAn I join?

No.

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 03:37:34 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Another Linus market observation...
In-Reply-To: <199802081806.MAA14516@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate  writes:
> monthly magazines. Linux has a roughly 6M user market penetration yet there
> is only a single Linux specific magazine available. ...

I disagree.  There are plenty of printed publications about the hardware
that Linux runs on (i.e. Intel and compatible boxes) (not that I read them).
There are also rags about Unix, which are almost entirely applicable to Linux.

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: MSDNFlash Editor 
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 06:07:26 +0800
To: "'cypherpunks@toad.com>
Subject: MSDNFlash, Volume 2, Number 3, February 9, 1998
Message-ID: <837CDED67A3AD111B59200805F3118C1087401C7@bulkengine.dns.microsoft.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



*** MSDN Flash ***

A Twice-Monthly Newsletter for the Microsoft Developer Community

Visit us today on the World Wide Web at:
http://www.microsoft.com/msdn/

In this issue:

PRODUCT AND TECHNOLOGY NEWS 
*Customers Choose Visual Studio
*VBA PowerTools
*New MSDN Online Feature - HelpDesk Code Sample
*Dr. GUI on COM
*XML-Data Submission to the W3C
*Visual FoxPro Migration Sourcebook CD

RESOURCES
*MSDN Subscription January Release
*Chat About MSDN Subscription
*MSDN Online Member Downloads
*New Chapter from Microsoft Mastering Series
*Download Windows CE 2.0 Platform SDK
*MSDN Online Membership Kit
*J/Direct Jump Start Reviewers Guide
*Learn Visual Basic Scripting Edition Now

EVENTS
*Windows DNA Development Lab
*XML Conference
*VBITS 
*Windows CE Developer Conference
*Visual C++ Developer Conference
*Visual J++ Developer Conference
*Visual Foxpro Devcon 98
*Microsoft TechEd
*Developer Events - United States
*Developer Events - Europe

MSDN FLASH TIP OF THE WEEK
*Visual J++ Developer's Journal
=================================================
PRODUCT AND TECHNOLOGY NEWS
=================================================
CUSTOMERS CHOOSE VISUAL STUDIO
Microsoft Visual Studio 97 is being widely adopted by enterprise
customers, partners, and solution providers for building
mission-critical business applications addressing a wide variety of
scenarios and architectural challenges. Visit 
http://www.microsoft.com/vstudio/
to read case studies and customer testimonials.

VBA POWERTOOLS
If you're learning how to build VBA components for applications such as
Word or Excel, the new VBA PowerTools series offers add-ins to install
and examine, like a popup thesaurus. Download a dozen of them from
http://www.microsoft.com/vba/vbapowertools.htm

NEW MSDN ONLINE FEATURE - HELPDESK CODE SAMPLE
Check out the new MSDN Feature package this month-the HelpDesk, an
extensive sample intranet application with 24,000 lines of source code.
Find out more about the package at
http://www.microsoft.com/msdn/news/feature/020298/default.htm

DR. GUI ON COM
Check out Dr. GUI's COM column-a step-by-step, week-by-week guide to
learning about components, COM and the Active Template Library.
Visit http://www.microsoft.com/news/drgui/020298.htm

XML-DATA SUBMISSION TO THE W3C
The W3C acknowledged the XML-Data submission from Microsoft, ArborText,
DataChannel and Inso.  The joint submission outlines a richer method for
describing and validating data - the goal is to make XML more powerful
for integrating data from multiple, disparate sources, and building
3-tier web applications.  The submission is available for public review
from
http://www.microsoft.com/standards/xml/

VISUAL FOXPRO MIGRATION SOURCEBOOK CD 
This free interactive guide is designed to make upgrading to Visual
FoxPro 5.0 easier, addressing the two biggest concerns developers have
when upgrading: The learning curve and the operating system. There is
plenty of in-depth information on everything from Visual FoxPro's
features to using Visual FoxPro to build client/server and Internet
applications. For ordering information visit
http://www.microsoft.com/vfoxpro/

=================================================
RESOURCES
=================================================
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The MSDN Subscription January Shipment includes Windows 98 beta 3,
Windows NT(r) Option Pack 4.0, Windows NT DDK (for Windows NT Workstation
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CHAT ABOUT MSDN SUBSCRIPTION
Join us for a discussion about MSDN Subscriptions on Tuesday, February
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msdn@microsoft.com with "MSDN Chat" as the subject line. We'll post a
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http://www.microsoft.com/msdn/newsgroups/chats.htm

MSDN ONLINE MEMBER DOWNLOADS
Check out this week's free downloads for Online Members: TeeChart Pro
ActiveX from TeeMach is a charting and graphing ActiveX control. Also
try Soffront TRACK - a customizable defect-tracking and
technical-support database. For more information visit 
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsce/developer/download/

NEW CHAPTER FROM MICROSOFT MASTERING SERIES 
This month check out Creating ActiveX Code Components, Chapter 7 from
Mastering Microsoft Visual Basic 5. Gain the skills you need to become
an expert in database programming and ActiveX component creation.
Available online and as a download. For more information visit 
http://www.microsoft.com/msdn/training/mastering.htm

DOWNLOAD MICROSOFT WINDOWS CE 2.0 PLATFORM SDK
If you're developing for Windows CE 2.0 you'll want to download the
Windows CE 2.0 platform SDK. Visit
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MSDN ONLINE MEMBERSHIP KIT
Sign up now to get your MSDN Online Membership Kit. Members in the US
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J/DIRECT JUMPSTART REVIEWERS GUIDE
The J/Direct Jumpstart Reviewers Guide discusses developing powerful
Windows applications in Java.  This guide provides introductory
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familiarize developers with the basic concepts of programming with
J/Direct. For more information visit
http://www.microsoft.com/visualj/

LEARN MICROSOFT VISUAL BASIC SCRIPTING EDITION NOW
Check out this sample chapter from the Microsoft Press book, LEARN
MICROSOFT VISUAL BASIC SCRIPTING EDITION NOW, which explains the basics
of the VB scripting language. Visit 
http://mspress.microsoft.com/prod/books/sampchap/364.htm

=================================================
EVENTS
=================================================
MICROSOFT DNA DEVELOPMENT LAB
A DNA Development Lab has been established for teams needing assistance
in moving their applications to Internet architectures. Corporate
development teams can bring their projects into the Lab, an intensive
5-day knowledge-transfer "boot camp", and get assistance in architecting
and implementing their solutions. The lab is a partnership between
Microsoft, CoreTech Consulting Group and Hewlett Packard. This
environment is ideal for proof-of-concept, porting, and startup
projects. More information is available at
http://www.coretech-group.com
and
http://www.microsoft.com/usa/mid-atlantic/

XML CONFERENCE
March 23-27, Seattle, WA
XML, eXtensible Markup Language, describes structured data and delivers
the data the way you want it.  Come to XML the Conference, and select
from the Business, Technical, E-Commerce, Print Media, and Content
Management Tracks. See tools that support XML today and those planned
for tomorrow.  For registration and additional information visit 
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VBITS SAN FRANCISCO '98
March 23-27, San Francisco, CA
VBITS brings Microsoft and independent speakers together to give
in-depth, hands-on training on topics ranging from multithreading
applications and servers, to leveraging component-based solutions to the
Internet or intranet, to deploying N-tier Client/Server apps with MTS.
Visit
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for more information.

REGISTER NOW FOR THE WINDOWS CE DEVELOPERS CONFERENCE
April 5-8, San Jose, CA
In-depth technical sessions will teach you all you need to know about
the latest advances in Windows CE-based devices. Anyone writing software
for Windows 95 or Windows NT will want to come hear how they can
leverage their existing Win32 skills into this area. Attendees will
receive a complimentary Palm PC - so you can start developing cool
applications right away. For more information or to register visit
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MICROSOFT VISUAL C++ DEVELOPER CONFERENCE IV
April 15-17, Boston, MA
TPD Publishing and Microsoft are holding the fourth Visual C++
Developers Conference: three days of intense technical instruction with
Microsoft product gurus and third-party speakers and authors. Come learn
about COM and DCOM, MFC and ATL, MTS, hardcore Visual C++, and more. For
more information
Visit http://www.vcdj.com/

VISUAL J++ DEVELOPER CONFERENCE
April 27-30, Los Angeles, CA
Informant Communications Group, Inc. and Microsoft have announced the
first Microsoft Visual J++ Developer Conference and Exposition. A
technical forum on advanced Java development using Microsoft Visual J++,
this event features four tracks and 48 sessions. For more information
visit
http://www.javaconference.com/

VISUAL FOXPRO DEVCON 98
May 17-20, Orlando, FL
Come learn all about Tahoe, the next version of Microsoft Visual FoxPro.
Presented by MSDN and FoxPro Advisor Magazine, this is the ultimate
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MICROSOFT TECHED 98
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This is the definitive technical conference for building complete
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Book Now! For more information visit 
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DEVELOPER EVENTS - UNITED STATES
EMERGING TECHNOLOGY SERIES
The Emerging Technology Series hits Missouri, Kansas, and Tennessee in
February and March with a six-city tour. This free one-day seminar
includes sessions on "Developing Multi-tiered Applications with Visual
Studio" and "Write Once, Run Everywhere? Alternatives to Cross Platform
Application Development". For more information, visit
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BOB AND LARRY'S DEVELOPER WORKSHOP SERIES
February 12, Waltham, MA 
February 17, Farmington, CT
Learn how to deliver solutions faster, cheaper and easier. For more
information on this free monthly series or to register head to
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MICROSOFT PROFESSIONAL DEVELOPERS SUMMIT
The PDS hits the West Coast in February with a seven-city tour. This
one-day seminar will focus on the Windows Distributed interNet
Applications Architecture and the new capabilities of the Windows
platform. For more information and to register visit
http://www.microsoft.com/usa/pdswest/

TURNING DATA INTO INFORMATION
Learn how to leverage desktop productivity tools, Internet technologies,
universal data access and SQL Server in a building framework for
effective data marts at a lower cost. For more information visit 
http://www.microsoft.com/usa/mid-atlantic/developer/

DEVELOPER EVENTS - EUROPE
MICROSOFT SQL SERVER AND UNIVERSAL DATA ACCCESS TECHNICAL CONFERENCE
March 25 - 26th Paris, 
March 30 - 31st Stockholm, 
April 2 - 3rd Frankfurt, 
April 6 - 7th London 1998.  
For more information visit
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MICROSOFT WEB SOLUTIONS DEVCON
February 16, Munich
February 18, Dusseldorf
March 3, Frankfurt
The one day 2 track technical conference will cover the development,
deployment and administration of web solutions built with Microsoft
technologies. A pre-conference the day before will focus on component
development with either VC++, VJ++ or VB. For more information visit
http://microsoft.eusoft.com

================================================= 
MSDN Flash TIP
================================================= 
BE CAREFUL WHEN COMPARING STRINGS
from Visual J++ Developer's Journal

Java allows you to compare two String objects, strng1 and strng2 using
the following code:

  if(strng1 == strng2) then
  ...

Unfortunately, the effect may not be what you want. The code above
actually compares the String locations, not their text value. To compare
the text values, use this:

  if(strng1.equals(strng2)) then
  ...

MSDN Online Members - we have a new Tip for you each week at
http://www.microsoft.com/msdn. For a free issue of Visual J++
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 04:06:34 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Driver Licenses
In-Reply-To: <19980208194501.10692.qmail@nsm.htp.org>
Message-ID: <199802082027.PAA00347@users.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In <19980208194501.10692.qmail@nsm.htp.org>, on 02/08/98 
   at 07:45 PM, Anonymous  said:

>Recently had to renew my DL here in Florida. While we are not forced to
>give up our fingerprints (yet)we have a new little magnetic strip similar
>to those on a credit card or ATM card and I can see this as a way for the
>State to start holding more and more data about us on these I.D.'s (like
>fingerprints, criminal records, etc...  Coincidentally, that day when I
>went into my grocery store to get a six pack of brew, I got carded.  I
>handed my new little card over and the teller and rather than looking at
>my date of birth she started to swipe the damn thing through her credit
>card reader machine!  I stopped her, grabbed my DL back and told her to
>manually enter the date as they have always done.  When she explained
>that it is against store policy and that she 'had' to swipe any IDs that
>had the strip I got my keys outta my pocket and all but removed the strip
>from the back of my little nemesis. Handed it back to her and told her to
>swipe away; it is against MY policy to provid!
> e !
>!
>the store with my address. I don't want any damn pepsi coupons mailed to
>me each time I buy coke, or northern tissue coupons when I buy charmin.
>Nor do I want the store collecting information on how much beer I buy.

>Sure, I want my alchohol purchases going to the Dept of Motor Vehicles
>and the other State departments...like hell.

>My question is, how much information can be stored on these strips?

My question is what is the best way to remove this information from the
cards?

A few passes over a strong magnet sufficient or should a chemical solvent
be used?


- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html                        
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: I'm an OS/2 developer...I don't NEED a life!

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Version: 2.6.3a-sha1
Charset: cp850
Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 05:02:16 +0800
To: ravage@ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Subject: Re: GNU market penetration...
In-Reply-To: <199802081837.MAA14861@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <199802082043.OAA16928@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Jim Choate wrote:
> I have a question, after going to the GNU homepage (www.gnu.org) I have not
> been able to find out the numbers of how many if any corporate subscribers
> and participants to the GNU Foundation. Is there anyone out there who might
> have a pointer to this information, or better yet is an actual participant
> in the GNU heirarchy and can discuss these and related issues?

Jim,

The number of subscribers bears almost no relation to the number of users.

	- Igor.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 07:24:28 +0800
To: declan@well.com
Subject: Re: rec.guns et.al. blocked by censorware
In-Reply-To: <6bla0o$4ad@xring.cs.umd.edu>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 3:02 PM -0800 2/8/98, Igor Chudov @ home wrote:
>In rec.guns, Dan  wrote:
>* I guess I should not be surprised but blocking software Cyber Patrol
>apparently
>* blocks rec.guns and rec.hunting because we are militant extremists, advocate
>* violence and swear.   The whole story starts at:
>* http://www.spectacle.org/cwp/index.html
>* You have to keep going until you get to newsgroups.

>Examples of HUNDREDS of blocked newsgroups:
>
>rec.games.mecha Giant robot games. (Moderated) Quest/Illegal/Gamble
>Violence/Profanity Intol
>news.groups             Discussions and lists of newsgroups. Intol
>news.groups.questions   Where can I find talk about topic X? Intol
>rec.guns Discussions about firearms. (Moderated) Militant/Extreme
>Violence/Profanity


Interestingly, rec.guns is moderated (not that I like that), and there is
virtually no profanity or discussion of anything remotely of a sexual
nature. The discussion is on-topic, about revolvers, rifles, ammunition,
target shooting, defense methods, etc.

That the "cyber nannies" are blocking it (and other similarly nonsexual,
nonprofane newsgroups) is exactly what was expected. These cyber nannies
become tools for political correctness.

Perhaps the strategy should be to post material to other newsgroups to get
them blocked as well. (Though I expect the blocking is not being done using
robots to monitor for illegal words, as rec.guns would not have been
blocked this way. Rather, the cyber nannies are probably using their "PC
judgment" to block groups they don't like.

--Tim May

Just Say No to "Big Brother Inside"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^3,021,377   | black markets, collapse of governments.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Alan Tu 
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 04:38:33 +0800
To: Cypher Punks Mailing List 
Subject: Latest in Factoring
Message-ID: <199802081525_MC2-3277-70EE@compuserve.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jeff Lawrence wrote:

>>>>>
Well, my opinion is only one of many, but I just finished installing
PGP 5.5 and it allows both RSA keys (max of 2048) as
well as DS/DHH keys (max of 4096).  Most keys I'm seeing these days
are running at 2048, so 1024 could be considered as
"below average".  Just my $0.02
<<<<<


First, I do have a 2048 RSA key I generated with 2.6.3ix, but its in
hibernation and not on a key server, yet. (g)

Second, what is 5.5 compared to 5.0?  Let alone 5.5.3 as displayed in your
key block?  Third, I think its arrogant that PGP Inc. (and many many other
software companies) have left dos/win 3.x users behind.  The people, like
me, who still use DOS/Win 3.x obviously like it, not to mention people not
in the USA.

Then, because of the lack of conventional encryption, and other options not
in pgp 5.0 (I don't know about 5.5), and because its not freeware (freeware
doesn't fully support RSA), people on the Internet had reached the
concensus that they weren't going to stop using pgp 2.6.xxxx.  When I
complained about 5.0, one person asked me if my 2.6.3ix version had stopped
working.  Anyway, I think that PGP Inc. should release a version of PGP for
DOS that lets you generate longer keys, be it RSA or otherwise.

Finally, there are a lot of people in other countries (where PGP has spread
as widely as in the US, if not more so) who are not compatible with Win95
users using PGP 5.0 freeware.

--Alan Tu

Type Bits/KeyID    Date       User ID
pub  1024/E5D915E1 1997/04/27 Alan Tu 
                              Alan Tu <102534.2165@compuserve.com>

-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
Version: 2.6.3i
Comment: Requires PGP version 2.6 or later.
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=CM85
-----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 05:34:49 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: GNU market penetration... (fwd)
Message-ID: <199802082136.PAA16474@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Subject: Re: GNU market penetration...
> Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 14:43:51 -0600 (CST)
> From: ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home)

> Jim Choate wrote:
> > I have a question, after going to the GNU homepage (www.gnu.org) I have not
> > been able to find out the numbers of how many if any corporate subscribers
> > and participants to the GNU Foundation. Is there anyone out there who might
> > have a pointer to this information, or better yet is an actual participant
> > in the GNU heirarchy and can discuss these and related issues?
> 
> The number of subscribers bears almost no relation to the number of users.

Here is what I am thinking...

 -  commercial success at larger commercial enterprises can be seen
    by looking at their gross orders of software. Consider that if a
    company decides they want to use Win95 and WinNT for their systems.
    Are they going to buy them one at a time? No, they are going to
    purchase either large quantities or site licenses.

 -  Since GPL doesn't really support site licenses in the normal sense
    they won't be there to look at. In other words the total number of
    site licenses from corporations for software is a measure of its
    penetration.

 -  Since GPL doesn't prohibit buying one copy and then making as many
    subsequent copies as you desire it is not likely that a given company
    is going to buy great quantities of GPL'ed software. What they'll do
    is have each department, through their own budget disbursement and
    orders, purchase such software as required. So we can expect to see
    one or more, but relatively few overall, purchases of software.
    Since this does not seem, to me anyway, to allow for a differentiation
    between one hacker purchasing the software in a comany or an entire
    department this also will not be a clear indication of penetration.

 -  Large companies faced with the above situations and having committed
    to the continued survival of those sources of software will want to
    create a situation where they minimize their need to keep re-ordering
    software as its needed (expensive in people and process time) the
    reasonable thing is to subscribe for annual terms or similar programs.

What I would like to know is what is the percentage of subscriptions by
companies in regards to the total number of subscriptions of GNU software.
I couldn't find any way to get this info on the www.gnu.org page. Since the
question is at what point is current penetration of Linux into commercial
entities as a standard business environment this seemed relevant.


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |       The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate,       |
   |       but the desire to edit somebody elses words.                 |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                  Sign in Ed Barsis' office         |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 05:02:10 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re:  Guy Polis is a pedophile
Message-ID: <199802082051.PAA28824@panix2.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Heh-heh-heh: it's so funny so see how high Dimitry jumps
when he sees people being made aware of his body of work.

>   From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com
>   
>   I have perfected sucking my own cock! Call me for a video!

Oh, Dimitry, we already know you are in love with yourself.
---guy

   And what a pathetic Net researcher... ;-)





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 05:53:37 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Cypherpunks share cookies
Message-ID: <1mPLke4w165w@bwalk.dm.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I've updated the cookie-sharing page at:

http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/6354/cookies.html

Please share your cookies!


I'm having a bit of a problem with the cookie from Firefly.com and other
sites that use their passport software (parts of barnes&noble, quitnet.org,
mylaunch.com, filmfinder.com, etc).

After a log in (as cypherpunks:cypherpunks, naturally), the server sends a
FIREFLYTICKETV3 cookie which appears to contain the username and
a timestamp.  After about 24 hours the cookie expires and one has to log
in again.  If someone can set the expiration date far in the future,
I'll add the cookie to the shared cookie list; otherwise they're useless.

Here's a sequence of "firefly ticket" cookies over a few days:

FIREFLYTICKETV3=WWKKILVVLLXVbVHKOHSNMH_\SVIHHHEGIIWRWUFIJI
                WWKKILVVLLXVbVHKOHSNMH_\SVGHJHLGMISRUUNIGI
                WWKKILVVLLXVbVHKOHTNFHa\WVHHGHKGFISRYUOILI
                WWKKILVVLLXVbVHKOHTNFHa\WVHHHHEGOIVR[UKIII
                WWKKILVVLLXVbVHKOHTNFHa\WVHHHHFGIIXRZUKIOI
                WWKKILVVLLXVbVHKOHTNFHa\WVHHGHKGFISRYUOILI
                WWKKILVVLLXVbVHKOHTNFHa\WVHHHHEGOIVR[UKIII
                WWKKILVVLLXVbVHKOHTNFHa\WVHHHHFGIIXRZUKIOI
                WWKKILVVLLXVbVHKOHTNFHa\WVJHGHEGJITRUUNIMI
                WWKKILVVLLXVbVHKOHTNFHa\XVEHLHJGKIXRRUNIHI
                WWKKILVVLLXVbVHKOHTNFHa\XVEHLHKGJIVRUUKIMI
                                     ^^^^^^     **********

The expiration is triggered by the piece I marked ^^^.  Munging the end
of the cookie (marked ***) doesn't seem to invalidate the cookie.

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Igor Chudov @ home" 
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 07:09:58 +0800
To: declan@well.com
Subject: Re: rec.guns et.al. blocked by censorware
In-Reply-To: <6bla0o$4ad@xring.cs.umd.edu>
Message-ID: <199802082302.RAA18137@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



In rec.guns, Dan  wrote:
* I guess I should not be surprised but blocking software Cyber Patrol apparently
* blocks rec.guns and rec.hunting because we are militant extremists, advocate
* violence and swear.   The whole story starts at:
* http://www.spectacle.org/cwp/index.html
* You have to keep going until you get to newsgroups.
* 
* If Cyber Patrol is doing this I suspect their competition is doing so as well.
* 
* Magnum:   I know this is sort of off topic, but I believe it's important for the
* group at large to know.


Just fyi, I did look at the site and was astonished. Indeed anyone who uses
this Cyber Patrol is a fool.

Examples of HUNDREDS of blocked newsgroups:

rec.games.mecha Giant robot games. (Moderated) Quest/Illegal/Gamble Violence/Profanity Intol
news.groups             Discussions and lists of newsgroups. Intol
news.groups.questions   Where can I find talk about topic X? Intol
rec.guns Discussions about firearms. (Moderated) Militant/Extreme Violence/Profanity


* -- 
* Dan - ywq@wco.com
* I love the smell of Hoppes #9 in the morning.
* Follow the Money - Who funds the election of your Congresscritter - www.opensecrets.org
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
char*p="char*p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}

                \=/,         _-===-_-====-_-===-_-==========-_-====-_
                |  @___oo   (                                        )_
      /\  /\   / (___,,,}_--=                                          )
     ) /^\) ^\/ _)        =__       Anything is good and useful if    )
     )   /^\/   _)          (_                                        )
     )   _ /  / _)            (         it's made of chocolate.        )
 /\  )/\/ ||  | )_)            (_                                     )
<  >      |(,,) )__)             (   http://www.algebra.com/~ichudov   )
 ||      /    \)___)\             (_                                  _)
 | \____(      )___) )___           -==-_____-=====-_____-=====-___==
  \______(_______;;; __;;;





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "WebWarrior3@InfoWar.Com" 
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 08:05:33 +0800
To: cypherpunks 
Subject: re: Driver Licenses
Message-ID: <34DE37BF.E4E6A424@InfoWar.Com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



William H. Geiger III wrote:
>My question is what is the best way to remove this information from the

>cards?
>
>A few passes over a strong magnet sufficient or should a chemical
solvent
>be used?

Either should work...I'll bet that scratching the shit off with his keys
worked too ;)
I'll have to remember that when it's time to get mine done.

That was a good question, though, does anyone know how much data those
little stripes can hold?

Scott R. Brower
http://www.infowar.com
http://www.efflorida.org





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 08:08:04 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: re: Driver Licenses (fwd)
Message-ID: <199802090012.SAA17348@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 17:54:56 -0500
> From: "WebWarrior3@InfoWar.Com" 
> Subject: re: Driver Licenses

> William H. Geiger III wrote:
> >My question is what is the best way to remove this information from the
> 
> >cards?
> >
> >A few passes over a strong magnet sufficient or should a chemical
> solvent
> >be used?
> 
> Either should work...I'll bet that scratching the shit off with his keys
> worked too ;)
> I'll have to remember that when it's time to get mine done.

My suggestion is not to alter the card such that a visual inspection would
show. In most states it's a felony to modify or alter a drivers license,
they are considered the property of the state and not yours personaly.

Next time a cop asks for ID and you hand him your d.l. you could be in for a
lot more than  couple hundred dollars and a ticket.

> That was a good question, though, does anyone know how much data those
> little stripes can hold?

Anywhere from a few hundred bytes to a k. Depends on the bit density of the
tape. Go down to your local electronics or audio supply and get a polarized
loupe and count them.


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |       The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate,       |
   |       but the desire to edit somebody elses words.                 |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                  Sign in Ed Barsis' office         |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 08:12:26 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: rec.guns et.al. blocked by censorware
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Tim May  writes:
> That the "cyber nannies" are blocking [rec.guns] (and other similarly nonsexual,
> nonprofane newsgroups) is exactly what was expected. These cyber nannies
> become tools for political correctness.

Steve Boursy reports that another censorware vendor has been caught mailbombing
a critic (sent her >400 junk e-mails) in retaliation for her criticism.

Guy Polis is a pedophile.

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 03:49:42 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Driver Licenses
Message-ID: <19980208194501.10692.qmail@nsm.htp.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Recently had to renew my DL here in Florida. While we are not forced to give up our fingerprints (yet)we have a new little magnetic strip similar to those on a credit card or ATM card and I can see this as a way for the State to start holding more and more data about us on these I.D.'s (like fingerprints, criminal records, etc...  Coincidentally, that day when I went into my grocery store to get a six pack of brew, I got carded.  I handed my new little card over and the teller and rather than looking at my date of birth she started to swipe the damn thing through her credit card reader machine!  I stopped her, grabbed my DL back and told her to manually enter the date as they have always done.  When she explained that it is against store policy and that she 'had' to swipe any IDs that had the strip I got my keys outta my pocket and all but removed the strip from the back of my little nemesis. Handed it back to her and told her to swipe away; it is against MY policy to provide !
!
!
the store with my address. I don't want any damn pepsi coupons mailed to me each time I buy coke, or northern tissue coupons when I buy charmin. Nor do I want the store collecting information on how much beer I buy.

Sure, I want my alchohol purchases going to the Dept of Motor Vehicles and the other State departments...like hell.

My question is, how much information can be stored on these strips?





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "WebWarrior3@InfoWar.Com" 
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 10:58:39 +0800
To: cypherpunks 
Subject: re: Drivers Licenses
Message-ID: <34DE5F9A.9744B0D7@InfoWar.Com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>In most states it's a felony to modify or alter a drivers license,
>they are considered the property of the state and not yours personaly.
>
>Next time a cop asks for ID and you hand him your d.l. you could be in
for a
>lot more than  couple hundred dollars and a ticket.

That's silly! I mess up my credit card strips all the time by keeping
them in my pocket with keys on motorcycle rides, or in my tool belt when
I used to do carpentry, or even slipping them into my money clip the
wrong side out....the tape has never lasted longer than a month on any
of my cards...I doubt, seriously, that a cop will harrass anyone who
does not come out and say, "Yes, officer, I intentionally defaced my
DL.  And ya know why, Mr. Poleesse Man? Well, I'll tell ya "

I do agree that it is proably better to do the damage without it being
noticable.  Less suspicion is ALWAYS better.

Best,
-S





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 11:02:57 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: re: Drivers Licenses (fwd)
Message-ID: <199802090304.VAA17982@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 20:44:58 -0500
> From: "WebWarrior3@InfoWar.Com" 
> Subject: re: Drivers Licenses

> That's silly! I mess up my credit card strips all the time by keeping
> them in my pocket with keys on motorcycle rides, or in my tool belt when
> I used to do carpentry, or even slipping them into my money clip the
> wrong side out....the tape has never lasted longer than a month on any
> of my cards...I doubt, seriously, that a cop will harrass anyone who
> does not come out and say, "Yes, officer, I intentionally defaced my
> DL.  And ya know why, Mr. Poleesse Man? Well, I'll tell ya  yadda, yadda, privacy, yadda, yadda, biometrics, yadda....>"
> 
> I do agree that it is proably better to do the damage without it being
> noticable.  Less suspicion is ALWAYS better.

Well I just looked at my Tx. d.l. to make shure my memory was correct. At
least on Texas d.l's the *only* way to get to the mag stripe is to break the
clear plastic laminating cover. And I assure you that if that cover is
broken or tampered with the officer will become much more suspicous. It has
this nifty little seal embossed all over the laminating cover on both sides.
So going down to the local laminating shop won't work either.

Proceed at your own risk, it's your neck after all.


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |       The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate,       |
   |       but the desire to edit somebody elses words.                 |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                  Sign in Ed Barsis' office         |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 11:38:33 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: re: Drivers Licenses (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199802090304.VAA17982@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <199802090401.XAA04008@users.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In <199802090304.VAA17982@einstein.ssz.com>, on 02/08/98 
   at 09:04 PM, Jim Choate  said:


>Forwarded message:

>> Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 20:44:58 -0500
>> From: "WebWarrior3@InfoWar.Com" 
>> Subject: re: Drivers Licenses

>> That's silly! I mess up my credit card strips all the time by keeping
>> them in my pocket with keys on motorcycle rides, or in my tool belt when
>> I used to do carpentry, or even slipping them into my money clip the
>> wrong side out....the tape has never lasted longer than a month on any
>> of my cards...I doubt, seriously, that a cop will harrass anyone who
>> does not come out and say, "Yes, officer, I intentionally defaced my
>> DL.  And ya know why, Mr. Poleesse Man? Well, I'll tell ya > yadda, yadda, privacy, yadda, yadda, biometrics, yadda....>"
>> 
>> I do agree that it is proably better to do the damage without it being
>> noticable.  Less suspicion is ALWAYS better.

>Well I just looked at my Tx. d.l. to make shure my memory was correct. At
>least on Texas d.l's the *only* way to get to the mag stripe is to break
>the clear plastic laminating cover. And I assure you that if that cover
>is broken or tampered with the officer will become much more suspicous.
>It has this nifty little seal embossed all over the laminating cover on
>both sides. So going down to the local laminating shop won't work either.

>Proceed at your own risk, it's your neck after all.

A couple of times through the washer and dryer and that lamination
seperates. Any cop that has worked traffic has seen plenty of DL's in this
shape (heh should have seen my old DL when I truned it in to get it
renewed ).

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html                        
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: OS/2: Your brain.  Windows: Your brain on drugs.

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=xV9x
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 04:46:23 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Driver Licenses
In-Reply-To: <19980208194501.10692.qmail@nsm.htp.org>
Message-ID: <199802082039.VAA10619@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> Coincidentally, that day when I went into my grocery store to get a six
> pack of brew, I got carded.  I handed my new little card over and the
> teller and rather than looking at my date of birth she started to swipe
> the damn thing through her credit card reader machine! 
> I stopped her, grabbed my DL back and told her to manually enter the date
> as they have always done.  When she explained that it is against store
> policy and that she 'had' to swipe any IDs that had the strip I got my
> keys outta my pocket and all but removed the strip from the back of my
> little nemesis. Handed it back to her and told her to swipe away; it is
> against MY policy to provide the store with my address. I don't want any
> damn pepsi coupons mailed to me each time I buy coke, or northern tissue
> coupons when I buy charmin. Nor do I want the store collecting
> information on how much beer I buy.

Odd.  When I first got a card with the stripe, I was a little paranoid so
I took a bar magnet and erased it.  Actually, I don't know whether my
eraser worked because nobody has ever asked to swipe my card thru a
reader.  I got a wallet with a plastic fold-out so if someone asks to see
my id, I open my wallet and show it to them, then put it away.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 11:39:10 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: re: Driver Licenses (fwd)
Message-ID: <199802090341.VAA18175@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 04:22:54 +0100 (MET)
> Subject: Re: re: Driver Licenses (fwd)
> From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)

> "Yeah, officer, I dropped my ID in the street and it got run over.  Don't
> give me such a hard time about it, I'm just glad I got it back..."
> I really doubt you are going to get convicted for accidently dropping your
> wallet because your ID got scraped up a little bit on the back side.

See a previous post I submitted earlier in this regards...

> Seriously, the best way is a strong magnet.  You can also put it in your
> shirt pocket and iron it, then apply a strong magnet.  The heat will make
> it lose its magnetism more quickly; just make shure you don't melt it. :)

The 'Currie Point' (the point a magnetic material looses its magnetic
behaviour) for Iron Oxide is 600F so I rather doubt your home clothing iron
will significantly effect it. The plastic that the license is made of will
melt at about 250 - 300.


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |       The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate,       |
   |       but the desire to edit somebody elses words.                 |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                  Sign in Ed Barsis' office         |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 11:51:48 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: re: Drivers Licenses (fwd)
Message-ID: <199802090355.VAA18303@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: "William H. Geiger III" 
> Date: Sun, 08 Feb 98 21:25:30 -0500
> Subject: re: Drivers Licenses (fwd)

> A couple of times through the washer and dryer and that lamination
> seperates. Any cop that has worked traffic has seen plenty of DL's in this
> shape (heh should have seen my old DL when I truned it in to get it
> renewed ).

I rather doubt that. I have had a Texas drivers license since I was 16, I'm
now 38. I have washed them innumerable times and I have never had the
lamination break or otherwise degrade. The lamination is quite heavy. I did
have one crack at the seam one time because of a bad lamination and was
specificaly instructed by the officer who wrote me a speeding ticket to get
it replaced. I did so immediately. The law here is that if the license is
damaged, you move, or otherwise make the information invalid you have 30
days to correct it. I suspect quite strongly that had I shown up at the court
house to pay that ticket with the same damaged license (required to be shown
at the time of payment) they would not have accepted the payment and might
have asked to to discuss the situation with one of the officers they so
thoughtfuly have placed about the room.

Texas takes counterfeiting of licenses quite seriously.

My suggestion would be don't try such juvenile tricks here, the DPS have
seen it before and won't be pleasant people to deal with unless you're
a juvenile.

I have a proposal. Lucky is supposed to be in Austin for the CFP conference.
If he is agreeable, he could ask to examine a Tx. d.l. We could leave it up
to his opinion as to whether these would be easy to alter.


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |       The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate,       |
   |       but the desire to edit somebody elses words.                 |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                  Sign in Ed Barsis' office         |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 05:08:09 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Software Reverse Engineering
Message-ID: <199802082100.WAA13567@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Hi All -

I've recently been disassembling some software written by idiots who never
heard of operating systems other than messy-windows, so that I can
re-implement it on my favorite platform (and fix numerous bugs).
I know many of you have done work in this area so maybe you can give me a
few tips.

I ran the program and traced its execution, which quickly showed what parts
were significant, and it's pretty easy to figure out what the relevant
functions are and what they do.  I was able to recompile sections of the
code into my own program and make it work without too much difficulty.

What is bugging me is this:  The program contains huge amounts of 'junk 
code' such as the following (disassembled with gdb):

     movl   0x7c58c,%eax
     movl   %eax,0xffffffa8(%ebp)
     movl   0xffffffa8(%ebp),%eax
     movl   %eax,0x7c590
     movl   0x7c590,%eax
     movl   %eax,0xffffffa8(%ebp)
     movl   0xffffffa8(%ebp),%edx

This segment of code accomplishes nothing execpt to move the same value
around into different locations, which are never again read.  At least
half of the instructions consist of similiar garbage, writing data into
locations that are never read, duplicating constants, copying values that
are never used, and so on.  The only thing saving the program from
running out of memory is that the programmer mostly used static buffers,
only sparingly doing dynamic allocation.  I'm quite surprised that I
haven't found any buffer overruns or security holes yet.

So, does anyone have reccomendations of what is the best way to seperate
the wheat from the chaff, so to speak?  I can use the program as is, but
the sheer amount of junk tends to make it run slowly, so I'd much prefer
to completely rewrite it.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 14:25:40 +0800
To: Ryan Lackey 
Subject: Re: Soft Tempest
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 9:19 PM -0800 2/8/98, Ryan Lackey wrote:

>I'm a bit busy until at least after FC '98, or I'd do it myself.  One
>of my goals is to keep my laptop as secure as possible, and that's
>an application where TEMPEST shielding is rather prohibitive.

Really? You think so? You think TEMPEST treatment of laptops is more
expensive than of normal machines?

The physics suggests just the opposite: the RF emissions from laptops are
expected to be lower from first principles, and, I have heard, are
measurably much lower. (I say "have heard" because I don't have any access
to RF measurement equipment...I once spent many hours a day working inside
a Faraday cage, but that was many years ago.)

The first principles part is that the deflection yokes in a CRT are the
largest radiated component of what got named "van Eck radiation." (I'd just
call it RF, but whatever.)

Laptops are missing this component. (It might be interesting to see the
radiated RF numbers for various kinds of flat panel displays.)

The emission from the keyboard would have to be looked at, of course.

Also, laptops, being so small, are easy to shield with mesh bags. An
inelegant approach would be to bend copper sheeting to form an enclosure. A
more elegant approach might be to take one of the tight-fitting laptop
cases (like the Silicon Sports "Wetsuit") and use it as a pattern for a
case made of conductive mesh fabric...or even something like aluminum
screen. Several layers would be even better.

But before going this route, I'd want to see some measurements. Laptops
might already be "quiet enough." (Measurements are needed to determine the
effectiveness of any proposed RF shielding anyway, so....)

Finally, for a number of years there have been proposals for viewing
screens built into glasses or goggles. "Crystal Eyes" was one of them.
Another was a replacement for standard EGA screens (this was 4-6 years
ago). These were being announced during the period when virtual reality
(VR) was expected to dominate...that hasn't happened, yet.

With some of these glasses, gargoyle-style, one could completely encase the
laptop in a shielded case (like a Zero Haliburton) and then use a palm
keypad...

Speaking of this sort of approach, a lower-tech version might be to use a
palmtop, like the HP 95LX, as a remote terminal to a machine completely
shielded. (The laptop could be in a shielded enclosure, or backpack, with
the 95LX snaked to it with cables.) Given the battery operation, the long
battery life (which says radiated RF is likely to be under control), the
LCD display, etc., this should be pretty good against eavesdroppers.

I haven't yet looked at the Ross Anderson paper, but some things bother me
about it. It seems unlikely that a "TEMPEST font" will affect keyboard and
main CPU board noise. Also, in a multiple window environment, with several
active windows, and with the target window being of varying sizes, I'm not
quite sure I buy the idea that a remote sensing of the content of one
window is very easy to pull off.

But I'll take a look at what Ross has to say.

--Tim May





Just Say No to "Big Brother Inside"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^3,021,377   | black markets, collapse of governments.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Secret Squirrel 
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 07:24:29 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Zero Knowledge Access
Message-ID: <75567b97663d45b018853166ea965a73@squirrel.owl.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Dumbfuck Rimjob (Dr.) Dimitri Vulis fucks apes with a spiked metal 
pole on the weekends and dreams of someone doing it to him.

Buttfuck on, Dimitri.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 13:07:47 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>Odd.  When I first got a card with the stripe, I was a little paranoid so
>I took a bar magnet and erased it.  Actually, I don't know whether my
>eraser worked because nobody has ever asked to swipe my card thru a
>reader.  I got a wallet with a plastic fold-out so if someone asks to see
>my id, I open my wallet and show it to them, then put it away.

How many of us have done this? I nuked mine in the parking lot of the DMV.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ryan Lackey 
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 13:29:38 +0800
To: John Young 
Subject: Re: Soft Tempest
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Anyone interested in working on this for linux?  It should be fairly
trivial to modify the linux console drivers, disk driver, and possibly
keyboard driver to take these changes into account.  At the same time,
it might be nice to add the permanence counters for RAM and magnetic
media.

I'm a bit busy until at least after FC '98, or I'd do it myself.  One
of my goals is to keep my laptop as secure as possible, and that's
an application where TEMPEST shielding is rather prohibitive.
-- 
Ryan Lackey
rdl@mit.edu
http://mit.edu/rdl/		





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 14:55:54 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Laptop TEMPEST
Message-ID: <199802090657.AAA19180@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Hi,

Doesn't the FCC have to test the RF emissions of all laptops as well as
monitors for sale as Class A and Class B in the US? Shouldn't that material
be available? I searched the main site, www.fcc.gov, but didn't find
anything regarding this. I sent a request for instructions on how to obtain
the emissions test results on computer monitors and laptops for commercial
and non-commercial use, foia@fcc.gov.

If anyone actualy knows of the location I would be much obliged if you would
pass it along.


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |       The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate,       |
   |       but the desire to edit somebody elses words.                 |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                  Sign in Ed Barsis' office         |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ryan Lackey 
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 15:22:52 +0800
To: Tim May 
Subject: Re: Soft Tempest
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199802090715.CAA24788@the-great-machine.mit.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Tim May wrote:
> At 9:19 PM -0800 2/8/98, Ryan Lackey wrote:
> 
> >I'm a bit busy until at least after FC '98, or I'd do it myself.  One
> >of my goals is to keep my laptop as secure as possible, and that's
> >an application where TEMPEST shielding is rather prohibitive.
> 
> Really? You think so? You think TEMPEST treatment of laptops is more
> expensive than of normal machines?

I think it is more difficult to have a lightweight, portable, non-maintenance
intensive solution for tempest protecting a portable than for a big
desktop box.

A desktop box doesn't care how much it weighs.  It can even be put inside
a TEMPEST rack (I saw someone selling these at a convention once; I wanted
one, but didn't have any way to to ship it back to Boston.  Sigh), or just
TEMPEST protect the entire room.

One of the problems with TEMPEST protection is that the gaskets/etc. get
worn.  Or some stupid fsck paints the exposed copper in the doorway.  Or
whatever.  I don't think requiring that the thing be portable, lightweight,
etc. is going to make it any less likely to be damaged.  If the TEMPEST
protection is damaged, it's not as if a warning LED will come on -- TEMPEST
monitoring equipment is *way* too heavy to build into a laptop, so it will
fail silently.

> The physics suggests just the opposite: the RF emissions from laptops are
> expected to be lower from first principles, and, I have heard, are
> measurably much lower. (I say "have heard" because I don't have any access
> to RF measurement equipment...I once spent many hours a day working inside
> a Faraday cage, but that was many years ago.)

Certainly the traces are shorter, there are no big antennas (read: cables)
connecting parts, etc.  The power levels are power.  There aren't any
power cords if you're on battery.

However, a lot of them have plastic cases and generally piss-poor shielding
of any kind, too.
> 
> The first principles part is that the deflection yokes in a CRT are the
> largest radiated component of what got named "van Eck radiation." (I'd just
> call it RF, but whatever.)
> 
> Laptops are missing this component. (It might be interesting to see the
> radiated RF numbers for various kinds of flat panel displays.)

According to the Anderson paper, certain kinds of LCD-TFT have *easier to 
monitor* emissions than monitors.  I have no idea which is the case, but
I'm willing to err on the side of paranoia.  I should scrounge up some 
TEMPEST monitoring equipment around MIT somewhere and test it, though.
> 
> The emission from the keyboard would have to be looked at, of course.

It's an integrated component, no keyboard wire, so it's much less likely
to lose.
> 
> Also, laptops, being so small, are easy to shield with mesh bags. An
> inelegant approach would be to bend copper sheeting to form an enclosure. A
> more elegant approach might be to take one of the tight-fitting laptop
> cases (like the Silicon Sports "Wetsuit") and use it as a pattern for a
> case made of conductive mesh fabric...or even something like aluminum
> screen. Several layers would be even better.

You need to worry about the mesh bag corrding/breaking/etc.  But yeah, this
is a decent technique.  I wonder how small the mesh has to be to attenuate
30-40db of signal in the relevant frequencies, and if that makes it hard to
see/type through.  I should figure out what frequencies are involved.
> 
> But before going this route, I'd want to see some measurements. Laptops
> might already be "quiet enough." (Measurements are needed to determine the
> effectiveness of any proposed RF shielding anyway, so....)

The paper pretty clearly says laptop LCDs are not sufficiently quiet.  Until
I read this, I was under the impression they were; perhaps passive matrix
screens are and active are not. (actually, I can totally understand that
wrt the pulse modulation not present in modern crts)
> 
> Finally, for a number of years there have been proposals for viewing
> screens built into glasses or goggles. "Crystal Eyes" was one of them.
> Another was a replacement for standard EGA screens (this was 4-6 years
> ago). These were being announced during the period when virtual reality
> (VR) was expected to dominate...that hasn't happened, yet.
> 
> With some of these glasses, gargoyle-style, one could completely encase the
> laptop in a shielded case (like a Zero Haliburton) and then use a palm
> keypad...

I used to work in the MIT Media Lab's wearables project -- we used
this kind of approach.  Something called a "twiddler" chording keyboard 
(unshielded; my advisor fled the country before I could get a shielded one
set up), attached to a "private eye" monocular display; some odd resolution,
again unshielded.  Attached to a standard portable PC, a belt mounted
PC, or whatever.

I was going to put together a TEMPEST resistant wearable at some point.  In
addition, a mesh cloak; we'd been doing some privacy stuff, and discovered
that there were penetrating cameras in use by some surveilance companies/etc.
for anti-shoplifting/etc. -- it would be nice to shield against them.  It
never happened, oh well.

I had a real bitch of a time finding open source TEMPEST information, which
is part of why the idea was back-burnered.  I think there is a concerted
effort on the part of the government to prevent open source discussion of
the topic, through manipulation of research money, etc.  Most of my 
information was general purpose EE stuff and some EMP-shielding information,
so perhaps I'm inclined to overkill (when dealing with EMP, you have to worry
about 3 second duration *changes* in the field, so your faraday cage needs to
be of uniform materials, joints need to be the same as the material, etc.  
In the absence of material to suggest otherwise, I think the same criteria
apply to serious TEMPEST shielding, in the 85db+ range.  There is some 
speculation that the SECRET TEMPEST specs are not sufficient to resist
some modern SIGINT technology, and that there exist unknown standards for
real protection for some applications.  Perhaps this is unjustified paranoia).
> 
> Speaking of this sort of approach, a lower-tech version might be to use a
> palmtop, like the HP 95LX, as a remote terminal to a machine completely
> shielded. (The laptop could be in a shielded enclosure, or backpack, with
> the 95LX snaked to it with cables.) Given the battery operation, the long
> battery life (which says radiated RF is likely to be under control), the
> LCD display, etc., this should be pretty good against eavesdroppers.

Even a passive component has a resonant frequency; if you're attacking, you
may know it and can take advantage of this (hinted at in the paper).  I
don't think the palmtop being low power necessarily makes it immune, although
I'd bet it's a bit better off than a laptop.
> 
> I haven't yet looked at the Ross Anderson paper, but some things bother me
> about it. It seems unlikely that a "TEMPEST font" will affect keyboard and
> main CPU board noise. Also, in a multiple window environment, with several
> active windows, and with the target window being of varying sizes, I'm not
> quite sure I buy the idea that a remote sensing of the content of one
> window is very easy to pull off.
> 
> But I'll take a look at what Ross has to say.
> 
> --Tim May

I think the real solution is just what Ross said -- software + hardware.
With the right font and X server frobbery, you can get *better* net
image/text quality with TEMPEST protection and anti-aliasing than with neither.
And it's a great safety net in case your hardware protection is compromised.

Once the current project which by now is becoming rather tired of being
brought up in passing rather than in a real comprehensive form is on its
way, I'm going to look at the TEMPEST wearable, maybe with a verified
cryptographic hardware implementation for the important stuff.

An interim solution of a nice greyscale antialiased font in a java window
serving as a console, even if only for things like the pgp xterm, would
be a nice interim solution.  Especially since it should only take a few
hours to do, if someone has some font manipulation tools.

I was originally thinking of modifying the text mode console drivers, but
they use DOS text mode, which can't deal with greyscale.  The solution
is to use SVGAlib, GGI, or an X application.  A really cool solution
would be to make the X server itself do this to everything on the screen.
XFree86 is way too nasty a codebase for me to modify in my spare time, though.
I think Linux-GGI is the proper way to do it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just Say No to "Big Brother Inside"
> ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
> Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
> ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
> W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
> Higher Power: 2^3,021,377   | black markets, collapse of governments.
> 
> 
> 

-- 
Ryan Lackey
rdl@mit.edu
http://mit.edu/rdl/		






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ryan Lackey 
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 15:44:54 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: Laptop TEMPEST
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



FCC RF/EMC testing is well nigh useless for TEMPEST protection.

Compliance engineering firms have some equipment which might be useful
for TEMPEST experimentation, but the actual specs for Class B (Class A
is basically anything that won't kill you) are pretty worthless for
this application.

I imagine there may be some other "dual use" technologies through for
testing TEMPEST equipment.  Perhaps some medical equipment has stringent
stray emanation specs?

I believe the equipment you'd really want is the real "TS" (technical
surveillance) gear, which is 1) not available on the open market and 2)
expensive.  The paper seems to have involved an AM radio and an obsolete
piece of British TS kit; van Eck used a modified TV.  Any HAM could
probably build a suitable receiver, the real problem is knowing how much
attenuation is necessary to defeat the real TS gear.  This is why I am
fundamentally impressed by the obfuscation techniques from the paper, rather
than just straight shielding. 
-- 
Ryan Lackey
rdl@mit.edu
http://mit.edu/rdl/		





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ken Williams 
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 16:31:07 +0800
To: Alan Tu 
Subject: Re: What's the latest in factoring?
In-Reply-To: <199802072222_MC2-3262-79F5@compuserve.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Sat, 7 Feb 1998, Alan Tu wrote:

>anything more recent?  Also, whereas 1024 bits was the commonly accepted
>threshhold for key lengths more than two years ago, what's the threshhold
>now?  Because I have DOS (and like it) I use PGP 2.63ix, when should I
>retire my 1024-bit key?  I don't expect anybody to answer that I should
>do so immediately, but can someone give me an idea on what people are
>doing in regard to key length?
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Alan Tu

8192 bits is used now.  you can generate 8192 bit keys with PGP 2.6.3ui
(the unofficial international version).

check out "PGP Projects" at http://www.westfalen.de/hugo/pgp/
or "The Unofficial International PGP Home Page" at
http://members.tripod.com/~Crompton/pgp.htm
for info and download.

[note:  you can of course generate MUCH larger keys, but i'm attempting to
be practical for a change]

Regards,

TATTOOMAN 

/-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-[   TATTOOMAN   ]-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-\  
| NC State Computer Science Dept   VP of The  E. H. A. P. Corp. |
| jkwilli2@adm.csc.ncsu.edu        http://www.hackers.com/ehap/ |
| jkwilli2@unity.ncsu.edu          ehap@hackers.com             |
| WWW---[   http://152.7.11.38/~tattooman/                      |
| FTP---[   ftp://152.7.11.38/pub/personal/tattooman/           | 
| WW2---[   http://www4.ncsu.edu/~jkwilli2/                     |                           
| W3B---[   http://152.7.11.38/~tattooman/w3board/              |
| PGP---[   http://www4.ncsu.edu/~jkwilli2/pgp.asc              |
|       35 E1 32 C7 C9 EF A0 AB  9D FE 8E FC 2D 68 55 44        |
\-=-=-=-=-=-=-[   http://152.7.11.38/~tattooman/  ]-=-=-=-=-=-=-/







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 11:29:20 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: re: Driver Licenses (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199802090012.SAA17348@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <199802090322.EAA09865@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> > >A few passes over a strong magnet sufficient or should a chemical
> > solvent
> > >be used?
> >
> > Either should work...I'll bet that scratching the shit off with his keys
> > worked too ;)
> > I'll have to remember that when it's time to get mine done.
> 
> My suggestion is not to alter the card such that a visual inspection would
> show. In most states it's a felony to modify or alter a drivers license,
> they are considered the property of the state and not yours personaly.
> 
> Next time a cop asks for ID and you hand him your d.l. you could be in for a
> lot more than  couple hundred dollars and a ticket.

"Yeah, officer, I dropped my ID in the street and it got run over.  Don't
give me such a hard time about it, I'm just glad I got it back..."
I really doubt you are going to get convicted for accidently dropping your
wallet because your ID got scraped up a little bit on the back side.

Seriously, the best way is a strong magnet.  You can also put it in your
shirt pocket and iron it, then apply a strong magnet.  The heat will make
it lose its magnetism more quickly; just make shure you don't melt it. :)





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Shostack 
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 18:12:13 +0800
To: anon@anon.efga.org
Subject: Re: Driver Licenses
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199802091006.FAA08443@homeport.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I used to work in a lab with an MRI.  Erased my credit cards
regularly.  I visit from time to time. :)

Adam


Anonymous wrote:
| >Odd.  When I first got a card with the stripe, I was a little paranoid so
| >I took a bar magnet and erased it.  Actually, I don't know whether my
| >eraser worked because nobody has ever asked to swipe my card thru a
| >reader.  I got a wallet with a plastic fold-out so if someone asks to see
| >my id, I open my wallet and show it to them, then put it away.
| 
| How many of us have done this? I nuked mine in the parking lot of the DMV.
| 


-- 
"It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once."
					               -Hume






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Raph Levien 
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 23:00:38 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: List of reliable remailers
Message-ID: <199802091450.GAA04639@kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



   I operate a remailer pinging service which collects detailed
information about remailer features and reliability.

   To use it, just finger remailer-list@kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu

   There is also a Web version of the same information, plus lots of
interesting links to remailer-related resources, at:
http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~raph/remailer-list.html

   This information is used by premail, a remailer chaining and PGP
encrypting client for outgoing mail. For more information, see:
http://www.c2.org/~raph/premail.html

   For the PGP public keys of the remailers, finger
pgpkeys@kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu

This is the current info:

                                 REMAILER LIST

   This is an automatically generated listing of remailers. The first
   part of the listing shows the remailers along with configuration
   options and special features for each of the remailers. The second
   part shows the 12-day history, and average latency and uptime for each
   remailer. You can also get this list by fingering
   remailer-list@kiwi.cs.berkeley.edu.

$remailer{'cyber'} = ' alpha pgp';
$remailer{"mix"} = " cpunk mix pgp hash latent cut ek ksub reord ?";
$remailer{"replay"} = " cpunk mix pgp hash latent cut post ek";
$remailer{"jam"} = " cpunk mix pgp hash middle latent cut ek";
$remailer{"winsock"} = " cpunk pgp pgponly hash cut ksub reord ?";
$remailer{'nym'} = ' newnym pgp';
$remailer{"squirrel"} = " cpunk mix pgp pgponly hash latent cut ek";
$remailer{'weasel'} = ' newnym pgp';
$remailer{"reno"} = " cpunk mix pgp hash middle latent cut ek reord ?";
$remailer{"cracker"} = " cpunk mix remix pgp hash ksub esub latent cut ek reord post";
$remailer{'redneck'} = ' newnym pgp';
$remailer{"bureau42"} = " cpunk mix pgp ksub hash latent cut ek";
$remailer{"neva"} = " cpunk pgp pgponly hash cut ksub ?";
$remailer{"lcs"} = " mix";
$remailer{"medusa"} = " mix middle"
$remailer{"McCain"} = " mix middle";
$remailer{"valdeez"} = " cpunk pgp pgponly hash ek";
$remailer{"arrid"} = " cpunk pgp pgponly hash ek";
$remailer{"hera"} = " cpunk pgp pgponly hash ek";
$remailer{"htuttle"} = " cpunk pgp hash latent cut post ek";
catalyst@netcom.com is _not_ a remailer.
lmccarth@ducie.cs.umass.edu is _not_ a remailer.
usura@replay.com is _not_ a remailer.
remailer@crynwr.com is _not_ a remailer.

There is no remailer at relay.com.

Groups of remailers sharing a machine or operator:
(cyber mix reno winsock)
(weasel squirrel medusa)
(cracker redneck)
(nym lcs)
(valdeez arrid hera)

This remailer list is somewhat phooey. Go check out
http://www.publius.net/rlist.html for a good one.

Last update: Thu 23 Oct 97 15:48:06 PDT
remailer  email address                        history  latency  uptime
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
hera     goddesshera@juno.com             ------------  5:03:45  99.86%
nym      config@nym.alias.net             +*#**#**###       :34  95.82%
redneck  config@anon.efga.org             #*##*+#****      2:00  95.44%
mix      mixmaster@remail.obscura.com     +++ ++++++*     19:18  95.27%
squirrel mix@squirrel.owl.de              -- ---+---    2:34:19  95.16%
cyber    alias@alias.cyberpass.net        *++***+ ++      11:26  95.11%
replay   remailer@replay.com              ****   ***      10:06  94.93%
arrid    arrid@juno.com                   ----.------   8:50:34  94.41%
bureau42 remailer@bureau42.ml.org          ---------    3:38:29  93.53%
cracker  remailer@anon.efga.org           +  +*+*+*+      16:32  92.80%
jam      remailer@cypherpunks.ca          +  +*-++++      24:14  92.79%
winsock  winsock@rigel.cyberpass.net      -..-..----    9:59:18  92.22%
neva     remailer@neva.org                ------****+   1:03:02  90.39%
valdeez  valdeez@juno.com                               4:58:22 -36.97%
reno     middleman@cyberpass.net                        1:01:28  -2.65%

   History key
     * # response in less than 5 minutes.
     * * response in less than 1 hour.
     * + response in less than 4 hours.
     * - response in less than 24 hours.
     * . response in more than 1 day.
     * _ response came back too late (more than 2 days).

   cpunk
          A major class of remailers. Supports Request-Remailing-To:
          field.
          
   eric
          A variant of the cpunk style. Uses Anon-Send-To: instead.
          
   penet
          The third class of remailers (at least for right now). Uses
          X-Anon-To: in the header.
          
   pgp
          Remailer supports encryption with PGP. A period after the
          keyword means that the short name, rather than the full email
          address, should be used as the encryption key ID.
          
   hash
          Supports ## pasting, so anything can be put into the headers of
          outgoing messages.
          
   ksub
          Remailer always kills subject header, even in non-pgp mode.
          
   nsub
          Remailer always preserves subject header, even in pgp mode.
          
   latent
          Supports Matt Ghio's Latent-Time: option.
          
   cut
          Supports Matt Ghio's Cutmarks: option.
          
   post
          Post to Usenet using Post-To: or Anon-Post-To: header.
          
   ek
          Encrypt responses in reply blocks using Encrypt-Key: header.
          
   special
          Accepts only pgp encrypted messages.
          
   mix
          Can accept messages in Mixmaster format.
          
   reord
          Attempts to foil traffic analysis by reordering messages. Note:
          I'm relying on the word of the remailer operator here, and
          haven't verified the reord info myself.

   mon
          Remailer has been known to monitor contents of private email.
          
   filter
          Remailer has been known to filter messages based on content. If
          not listed in conjunction with mon, then only messages destined
          for public forums are subject to filtering.
          

Raph Levien





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: mark@unicorn.com
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 23:16:21 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: the best justice money can buy --Lessig (fwd)
Message-ID: <887036600.23860.193.133.230.33@unicorn.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate (ravage@ssz.com) wrote:
>So do I, and I bet both our incomes combined doesn't add up to 15 minutes of
>Bill G's and it won't. 

Of course not, because Bill has jackbooted copyright enforcers to subsidise
his corporation. Without them his income would be dramatically reduced.

>From a market perspective we're flies on the back of
>great elephant. Please be so kind as to describe how and why this marketing
>mechanism (copyleft) will succed? 

Uh, I said copyright should be abolished, you said noone would write
software, I said that Linux disproved that claim. How is this relevant
to that discussion? Of course it's not going to take over when companies
can get billions of dollars of subsidies in the form of copyright
enforcement, but it clearly shows that without copyright people will
produce better software than Microsfot has ever written.

>I've been using and supporting Linux since
>1993 (SSZ is listed as a source site in the back of 'Running Linux' since 
>day one) in this manner neither I or anyone else has gotten rich.

Exactly. So tell us how Bill would have become a billionaire without
copyright?

>It's copyrighted in the important sense in that it uses the copyright to
>enforce its conditions. That is just as important as the marketing decisions
>made by it.

All it enforces is source-code distribution (and I've yet to hear of a single
case where it's ever been used). That's important to the developers, but not 
to the average user. The situation would be little changed in a world with 
no copyright, because if anyone did try to keep their source secret anyone 
who got a copy could freely distribute it.

I'm truly amazed to find all these pro-copyright views on the list, when
cypherpunks have been at the forefront of creating technologies to make it
unenforceable and obsolete.

    Mark





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ken Williams 
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 21:13:34 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: 145 Million
In-Reply-To: <199801260540.XAA10977@mail.t-1net.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Sun, 25 Jan 1998 MAILER-DAEMON@toad.com wrote:

>Removal instructions below.
>
>If someone with an 8th grade education can make a personal 
>fortune of $145 million in network marketing with herbs, 

that's a shitload of weed!  it would be quite risky too trying to move
over 45,000 lbs of quality weed.  you are right though that anyone
with an 8th grade education can do it....in fact, i would say most of the
ppl trying to achieve this probably have an 8th grade education or less.

>why can't you?  Especially when this person has just decided 

um....because i didn't enjoy prison the first time?

>to come out of retirement to launch an upstart company, 
>marketing products that were used by the Russians to win all 
>those gold medals at the Olympic Games.  With more scientific 

Russians winning gold medals?  you want me to push steroids too?

>research than anything else on the market, it's no wonder why 
>so many doctors are joining our company and offering these 
>products to their patients.

dope dealers = doctors?  crackheads = patients?

>Why not do something different to change your life?  Join in 

ok, pass me that crack pipe you're tokin on then.

>with the person who knows how to make things happen big and 
>fast.  He has just joined our company and is willing to help 
>you learn how to 'set yourself free'.

uhh....Scarface died trying to do this, didn't he?

>Someday maybe you can throw the alarm clock out the window.  
>For good.

but my pager and cellfone will be going off constantly.  since i'll
probably be jacked on crystal meth all the time, i guess i won't mind
though....

>For additional information, please check out the following:
>http://www.prime-1.com
>
>Thanks
>
>
>For guaranteed removal call 1-800-555-9205, ext. 3256,
>24 hours a day. 
>

yeah, right.

TATTOOMAN 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 22:06:14 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: 145 Million
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <2uymke8w165w@bwalk.dm.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Ken Williams  writes:

> >to come out of retirement to launch an upstart company,
                  ^^^^^^^^^^ jail :-)
> >marketing products that were used by the Russians to win all
> >those gold medals at the Olympic Games.  With more scientific
>
> Russians winning gold medals?  you want me to push steroids too?

I suspect they used much more than steroids and that half the chemicals
are so secret they're not illegal yet.  You don't think Russian gymnast
girls were on steroids, do you? ;-) (They do have to take the Pill, so
they don't get their period in the middle of a performance.)

Guy Polis is a pedophile who became interested in cryptography because
he didn't want to the cops to read the child pornography pictures on his
hard disk.

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 22:17:25 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: re: Drivers Licenses (fwd)
Message-ID: <199802091420.IAA20507@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 09:25:55 +0100 (CET)
> From: Lucky Green 
> Subject: re: Drivers Licenses (fwd)

> On Sun, 8 Feb 1998, Jim Choate wrote:
> > I have a proposal. Lucky is supposed to be in Austin for the CFP conference.
> > If he is agreeable, he could ask to examine a Tx. d.l. We could leave it up
> > to his opinion as to whether these would be easy to alter.
> 
> Why me?

Convenience. You seemed like the right person who would be in the right
place with the right technical skills to ask for indipendent opinion.

You obviously don't feel comfortable with it. I apologize for the intrusion.


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |       The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate,       |
   |       but the desire to edit somebody elses words.                 |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                  Sign in Ed Barsis' office         |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 22:21:43 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Driver Licenses (fwd)
Message-ID: <199802091425.IAA20569@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 09:00:12 +0100 (CET)
> From: Lucky Green 
> Subject: Re: Driver Licenses

> The clerk at my local 7/11 assured me the information captured would not
> be forwarded to a central site. Yet. It appears the stores are installing
> these systems to protect themselves against police sting "test buys", in
> which the authorities take persons just days shy of their 21st birthday,
> put theater makeup and/or a gray beard and wig on them and thus entrap
> store clerks into selling controlled substances to minors.
> 
> As any fool can predict, the information captured will not remain local
> for long. After all, the system is ideal for monitoring gun^H^H^H alcohol
> purchases of parolees, tracking down deadbeat dads, etc.

I have worked doing technical support for McDonalds in two of my past jobs.
I assure you that when they dump the stores records each night they are
dumping this as well. They dump gas sales from the automated machines as a
matter of course. The real question is who besides Southland Corp.
subsidies are they selling this info to?


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |       The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate,       |
   |       but the desire to edit somebody elses words.                 |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                  Sign in Ed Barsis' office         |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Eric Murray 
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 00:42:33 +0800
To: shamrock@cypherpunks.to
Subject: Re: Driver Licenses
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199802091627.IAA15679@slack.lne.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Lucky Green writes:
> 
> On Sun, 8 Feb 1998, William H. Geiger III wrote:
> > My question is what is the best way to remove this information from the
> > cards?
> 
> Making the mag stripe on a driver license unreadable by a POS terminal is
> easy. A refrigerator magnet will suffice. There is only one problem:
> chances are you then won't be sold any alcohol.
> 
> See, major chains, such as the Southland corporation [7/11], recently
> installed POS terminals that are linked to the cash register. [This may
> not have reached a particular reader's area yet, please don't reply with
> "but my 7/11 down the corner does not do this"].

I have no idea if my local 7/11 does this.  I don't even know
where my local 7/11 is.  I do however find it interesting that they're
implementing this policy when there are still legally-issued non-mag-stripe
driver's licenses in circulation... like mine, issued in 1980
(extended many times) and valid til the end of this year.


> Unless a driver license has been swiped, the cash register will not permit
> the clerk to ring up the sale. It doesn't matter how old you are, you can
> be 80 years old and in a wheelchair, no government issued ID with working
> mag stripe, no alcohol or tobacco products for you.

Never mind that the CDL isn't supposed to be a citizen's ID badge.
 
> The clerk at my local 7/11 assured me the information captured would not
> be forwarded to a central site. Yet. It appears the stores are installing
> these systems to protect themselves against police sting "test buys", in
> which the authorities take persons just days shy of their 21st birthday,
> put theater makeup and/or a gray beard and wig on them and thus entrap
> store clerks into selling controlled substances to minors.
> 
> As any fool can predict, the information captured will not remain local
> for long. After all, the system is ideal for monitoring gun^H^H^H alcohol
> purchases of parolees, tracking down deadbeat dads, etc.

We're building Big Brother, one tiny step at a time.
I hear we're going to war against Oceania again next month.

-- 
Eric Murray  Chief Security Scientist  N*Able Technologies  www.nabletech.com
(email:  ericm  at  lne.com   or   nabletech.com)          PGP keyid:E03F65E5





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 22:28:24 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Laptop TEMPEST (fwd)
Message-ID: <199802091430.IAA20623@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Subject: Re: Laptop TEMPEST
> From: Ryan Lackey 
> Date: 09 Feb 1998 02:34:15 -0500

> FCC RF/EMC testing is well nigh useless for TEMPEST protection.

I disagree, it would give you a gross baseline on the total emissions
between monitors and laptops. That field strenght measurement would at least
allow you to calculate radiuses of equal strength to calculate approximately
how far the emissions are from each class of device for equal probabilities
of detection. One of the specific goals is to measure how effective the
device is at effecting other co-located devices (such as seeing ghost images
on other monitors or causing static in paging equipment).

I suspect one could do it with a spectrum analyzer or a grid dip meter.

> I imagine there may be some other "dual use" technologies through for
> testing TEMPEST equipment.  Perhaps some medical equipment has stringent
> stray emanation specs?

We're not trying to bring the individual vertical retraces out of the
chaff...we're trying to calculate the total comparitive emission strengths.
If that isn't high enough then trying to get individual componants of that
field will be useless.


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |       The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate,       |
   |       but the desire to edit somebody elses words.                 |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                  Sign in Ed Barsis' office         |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 15:56:46 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com
Subject: re: Drivers Licenses
Message-ID: <199802090735.IAA08517@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate wrote:

>> From: "William H. Geiger III" 
>> 
>> A couple of times through the washer and dryer and that 
>> lamination seperates. Any cop that has worked traffic 
>> has seen plenty of DL's in this shape (heh should have 
>> seen my old DL when I truned it in to get it renewed ).
> 
> I rather doubt that. I have had a Texas drivers license 
> since I was 16, I'm now 38. I have washed them innumerable 
> times and I have never had the lamination break or 
> otherwise degrade. The lamination is quite heavy. I did
> have one crack at the seam one time because of a bad 
> lamination and was specificaly instructed by the officer 
> who wrote me a speeding ticket to get it replaced. I did 
> so immediately. 

"Yes SIR!"

> The law here is that if the license is damaged, you move, 
> or otherwise make the information invalid you have 30
> days to correct it. 

"Yes SIR!"

> I suspect quite strongly that had I shown up at the
> court house to pay that ticket with the same damaged 
> license (required to be shown at the time of payment) 
> they would not have accepted the payment and might have 
> asked to to discuss the situation with one of the 
> officers they so thoughtfuly have placed about the room.

"Yes SIR!"

> Texas takes counterfeiting of licenses quite seriously.

"Yes SIR!"

> My suggestion would be don't try such juvenile tricks here, 

"No, SIR!"

> the DPS have seen it before 

"Yes SIR!"

> and won't be pleasant people to deal with unless you're 
> a juvenile.

"No SIR!"

This is one of the things I love so about Texas and Texans.
Despite inexplicable rumors and propaganda about independence
and rugged frontier indivuality, Texans are as fucking
obedient to authority as the most lock-stepped fucking
Germans. The People's Republic of Texas is on the leading 
edge of Big Brother statism. Sales tax fully as high as
New York's, fingerprints at driver license renewal time,
roadblocks to fish for people who have been indulging in
adult beverages or who have outstanding warrants, and some
of the most dumb-fuck, clueless, fuckwit people behind
badges in the known universe. Texans will give anyone
their SS number at any time for any reason. Many print it
on their checks. Texas is without doubt the Rube State.
The only reason it isn't on the bleeding foreskin of
Big Brother technology is that there aren't enough clues
in the state to rub together to make a spark. When you
run into anyone halfway sharp or better in Texas, it's
a cinch they are a refugee from the unforgiving North.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 22:54:28 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Airport security cracked by flaw [CNN]
Message-ID: <199802091452.IAA20852@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> X-within-URL: http://www.cnn.com/TECH/computing/9802/08/security.reut/index.html

>            REPORT: COMPUTER DESIGN FLAW OPENS AIRPORTS TO TERRORISM
>                                        
>      graphic February 8, 1998
>      Web posted at: 1:25 p.m. EST (1825 GMT)
>      
>      NEW YORK (Reuters) -- The computer security systems that control
>      access to 40 airports worldwide through electronic badges have a
>      design flaw that could make them vulnerable to terrorism, The New
>      York Times reported Sunday.
>      
>      A California computer security consulting firm, MSB Associates,
>      found the flaw in December in a routine audit of a large California
>      financial services software company, the identity of which was not
>      disclosed, according to the newspaper.
>      
>      Government buildings, including that of the CIA, and prisons and
>      industries with sensitive military, drug or financial information or
>      material also use the system and are also vulnerable to attack, the
>      Times report said.

[text deleted]


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |       The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate,       |
   |       but the desire to edit somebody elses words.                 |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                  Sign in Ed Barsis' office         |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Lucky Green 
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 15:57:29 +0800
To: "William H. Geiger III" 
Subject: Re: Driver Licenses
In-Reply-To: <199802082027.PAA00347@users.invweb.net>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Sun, 8 Feb 1998, William H. Geiger III wrote:
> My question is what is the best way to remove this information from the
> cards?

Making the mag stripe on a driver license unreadable by a POS terminal is
easy. A refrigerator magnet will suffice. There is only one problem:
chances are you then won't be sold any alcohol.

See, major chains, such as the Southland corporation [7/11], recently
installed POS terminals that are linked to the cash register. [This may
not have reached a particular reader's area yet, please don't reply with
"but my 7/11 down the corner does not do this"].

Unless a driver license has been swiped, the cash register will not permit
the clerk to ring up the sale. It doesn't matter how old you are, you can
be 80 years old and in a wheelchair, no government issued ID with working
mag stripe, no alcohol or tobacco products for you.

The clerk at my local 7/11 assured me the information captured would not
be forwarded to a central site. Yet. It appears the stores are installing
these systems to protect themselves against police sting "test buys", in
which the authorities take persons just days shy of their 21st birthday,
put theater makeup and/or a gray beard and wig on them and thus entrap
store clerks into selling controlled substances to minors.

As any fool can predict, the information captured will not remain local
for long. After all, the system is ideal for monitoring gun^H^H^H alcohol
purchases of parolees, tracking down deadbeat dads, etc.


-- Lucky Green  PGP v5 encrypted email preferred.
   "Tonga? Where the hell is Tonga? They have Cypherpunks there?"





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 01:21:18 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Driver Licenses
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980209091437.007b5da0@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>I used to work in a lab with an MRI.  Erased my credit cards
>regularly.  I visit from time to time. :)

Don't you just hate it when that happens :-)
In particular, unlike scratching the mag strip off or ironing,
if the mag strip doesn't work, you can just look ignorant.
I have enough trouble with my real credit cards being non-scannable.

The issue of driver's license mag strip technology has been
discussed here in the past, and probably also on some of the
privacy newsgroups.  You could grunge around the archives and
see what you find.  If memory serves me correctly, most of them
use a common magstripe format used for credit cards,
which gives three stripes of up to about 80 bytes each.
(It's been suggested that some states use a higher magnetization
level, either to reduce forgery or probability of damage.)
Typically they'll have the DL#, name, height, weight,
eye color, race, Jew bit, Commie bit, etc.,
so the cops can not only scan the information conveniently,
but also can compare it to the information on the front
to see if it's forged.
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 01:33:38 +0800
To: Lucky Green 
Subject: Re: Driver Licenses
In-Reply-To: <199802082027.PAA00347@users.invweb.net>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 12:00 AM -0800 2/9/98, Lucky Green wrote:

>See, major chains, such as the Southland corporation [7/11], recently
>installed POS terminals that are linked to the cash register. [This may
>not have reached a particular reader's area yet, please don't reply with
>"but my 7/11 down the corner does not do this"].
>
>Unless a driver license has been swiped, the cash register will not permit
>the clerk to ring up the sale. It doesn't matter how old you are, you can
>be 80 years old and in a wheelchair, no government issued ID with working
>mag stripe, no alcohol or tobacco products for you.

If this is consistently the case, then one approach is to wheel a cart up
to the checkout line with some alcohol....and a cart full of items from the
freezer and deli sections. (Some cartons of chicken salad, partly
"sampled," for example.)

If a U.S. Passport is not considered enough I.D., because it doesn't have
the Big Brother Inside magstripe, one walks away from the transaction.

"Oh, OK, you won't take my money. Bye!"

(I don't believe there are any laws saying a customer must separate his
purchases...if the store refuses to transact business with a customer, he
may leave.)

This leaves all that frozen food to be quickly returned to the shelves, and
the deli food, which probably cannot be returned. (Depends on store and
health department policy.)

I wish no ill will toward merchants, but implementing a Big Brother Inside
tracking policy carries some real costs.

Lucky didn't want us to reply with anecdotes, but I have to note that many,
many people will inevitably not have the type of cards Lucky refers to.
Visitors, tourists, residents of other states, etc. This would all be lost
revenue to stores. I thus question the "universality" of Southland's plans.
Perhaps only those who "look under 26" (which is what the signs say) will
be "striped carded."

>The clerk at my local 7/11 assured me the information captured would not
>be forwarded to a central site. Yet. It appears the stores are installing
>these systems to protect themselves against police sting "test buys", in
>which the authorities take persons just days shy of their 21st birthday,
>put theater makeup and/or a gray beard and wig on them and thus entrap
>store clerks into selling controlled substances to minors.

Lucky is right that that "underage stings" are on the increase. Underage
persons, often in high school, beome self-righteour warriors in the War On
Demon Rum, and "narc out" their local shopkeepers.

Hey, it would serve these junior narcs right if, upon being carded and
being shown to be underage, a store owner made a citizen's arrest. Perhaps
putting the perp in the back freezer for a few hours would send a message.


>As any fool can predict, the information captured will not remain local
>for long. After all, the system is ideal for monitoring gun^H^H^H alcohol
>purchases of parolees, tracking down deadbeat dads, etc.

We are on the road toward a surveillance society.

Sadly, the ideas of David Chaum are more needed than ever, but his stuff is
essentially nowhere to be seen. (To reflect Lucky's comments back to him,
:-), spare us any citations of how Mark Twain Bank will let some people
open a cumbersome Digicash account.)

--Tim May


Just Say No to "Big Brother Inside"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^3,021,377   | black markets, collapse of governments.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Lucky Green 
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 16:24:11 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: re: Drivers Licenses (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199802090355.VAA18303@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Sun, 8 Feb 1998, Jim Choate wrote:
> I have a proposal. Lucky is supposed to be in Austin for the CFP conference.
> If he is agreeable, he could ask to examine a Tx. d.l. We could leave it up
> to his opinion as to whether these would be easy to alter.

Why me?

-- Lucky Green  PGP v5 encrypted email preferred.
   "Tonga? Where the hell is Tonga? They have Cypherpunks there?"





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 22:40:36 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: EPIC World Crypto Survey
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980209142939.00b36c60@pop.pipeline.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



The New York Times, February 9, 1998, p. D10:

U.S. Losing Battle on Control of Data Encryption, Study Says

By Jeri Clausing

Washington -- The Clinton Administration is losing its battle
to increase international controls over how reliably computer
data can be scrambled to insure privacy, according to a report
to be released Monday by an independent research group. ...

The Electronic Privacy Information Center 
says that its survey of 243 governments showed that the United
States is virtually the only democratic, industrialized nation
seeling domestic regulation of strong encryption.

That finding directly contradicts the Clinton Administration's
assertions in Congressional hearings that it has the support of
most nations on this issue. ...

William Reinsch, the Under Secretary for export administration
in the United States Commerce Department, denied that the study
contradicted the Administration's assertions. "All the 
Administration has ever said is that there are more countries 
that go farther  than we do," Mr. Reinsch said. "The study 
confirms that."





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 01:58:52 +0800
To: Tim May 
Subject: Re: Soft Tempest
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980209093105.007b3780@otc.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 10:14 PM 2/8/98 -0800, Tim May wrote:
>At 9:19 PM -0800 2/8/98, Ryan Lackey wrote:
>
>
>The physics suggests just the opposite: the RF emissions from laptops are
>expected to be lower from first principles, and, I have heard, are
>measurably much lower. (I say "have heard" because I don't have any access
>to RF measurement equipment...I once spent many hours a day working inside
>a Faraday cage, but that was many years ago.)
...later...
>But before going this route, I'd want to see some measurements. Laptops
>might already be "quiet enough." (Measurements are needed to determine the
>effectiveness of any proposed RF shielding anyway, so....)

The interference that laptops can cause with avionics is 
prima facie evidence that laptops are not quiet.


>The first principles part is that the deflection yokes in a CRT are the
>largest radiated component of what got named "van Eck radiation." (I'd just
>call it RF, but whatever.)
>
>Laptops are missing this component. (It might be interesting to see the
>radiated RF numbers for various kinds of flat panel displays.)

They are not missing the periodic pixel clocking signals though.


...
>With some of these glasses, gargoyle-style, one could completely encase the
>laptop in a shielded case (like a Zero Haliburton) and then use a palm
>keypad...

Yes, but cables radiate.  Wires are antennae.  Used to be a big problem
when laptops had wired mice.

BTW, in van Eck's original paper, he gives a way to make screen spying
a little tougher: pick random raster-lines to draw instead of the usual
order.  This of course would not be a significant barrier to modern
interception.

------

Enrico Fermi used to tune a regular music radio to a cyclotron(?) so he
could tell
that it was working, I've read.






------------------------------------------------------------
      David Honig                   Orbit Technology
     honig@otc.net                  Intaanetto Jigyoubu

		Lewinsky for President '2012




	















From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ken Williams 
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 22:59:21 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: CYBERsitter caught mail-bombing (fwd)
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 23:25:04 -0500
From: bennett@peacefire.org
To: peacefire-broadcast@vorlon.mit.edu
Subject: CYBERsitter caught mail-bombing

CYBERsitter has been caught in the act of mail-bombing someone who wrote a
letter to Brian Milburn, the CEO of CYBERsitter, complaining about their
product.  Spefically, a lady names Sarah Salls sent the following letter to
Brian Milburn at bmilburn@solidoak.com:

        http://peacefire.org/archives/SOS.letters/asherah.2.bm.2.4.98.txt

She was writing to CYBERsitter regarding their harassment of Peacefire and
their blocking of anti-censorship sites, which is described in more detail at:
        http://www.peacefire.org/censorware/CYBERsitter/

CYBERsitter replied by flooding her account with over 446 junk messages.
While the attack was in progress, Ms. Salls had her ISP's postmaster monitor
the incoming attack and shut it off.  Naturally, her ISP, Valinet.com, kept
copies of the mail logs for that day and has passed them on as evidence to
their lawyers.  A complaint was also forwarded to MCI's security department,
which handles network abuse and illegal denial-of-service attacks that are
perpetrated by their customers, which include lower-end network users like
CYBERsitter:

        http://peacefire.org/archives/SOS.letters/valinet.2.mci.2.5.98.txt

C-Net's NEWS.com picked up on the story and interviewed Sarah Salls, her
ISP, me, and Brian Milburn from Solid Oak Software.  Their story is at:

        http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,18937,00.html

(Note that the C-Net article compares the act of mail flooding with
conventional spam, and says that a bill is being considered in Congress that
would outlaw what CYBERsitter did.  This is not quite true; flooding a
person's account with 500 junk messages is a denial-of-service attack, which
is already illegal, and it usually gets you in a lot more trouble than
spamming would.)

Far from denying the accusations, Brian Milburn gave C-Net the following
quote: "Certain people aren't going to get the hint.  Maybe if they get the
email 500 times, they'll get it through their heads...  If they send it to
my private email account, they're going to get what they get."  No kidding,
Brian!



bennett@peacefire.org     (615) 421 6284     http://www.peacefire.org/

---





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 02:05:42 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Interview with the man who creamed Bill Gates
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 09:29:44 -0800 (PST)
From: Declan McCullagh 
To: politech@vorlon.mit.edu
Subject: Interview with the man who creamed Bill Gates

Is at:

  http://cgi.pathfinder.com/netly/opinion/0,1042,1733,00.html

-Declan







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 02:35:54 +0800
To: Markus Kuhn 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980209101733.007a6e30@otc.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 04:54 PM 2/9/98 +0000, Markus Kuhn wrote:
> The horizontal and vertical
>deflection coils produce a lot of radiation at harmonics of the
>line and frame rate of your CRT, but this signal energy is not
>related to your screen content (only to your video mode), and therefore
>not of much concern for the eavesdropper. The low-radion monitor
>standards look only at those signal (<400 kHz). Therefore having
>a TCO92 monitor provides you absolutely no advantage with respect
>to eavesdropping.

>The information carrying signals of VDUs are in much higher frequency
>ranges in the VHF/UHF bands. Laptops are pretty good broadcasters
>there, too.

One of the issues is that the fast rise-times on signals yields
emissions all over the spectrum, not just at the base scanning rate.
Thus, even though you're sending at e.g., 2400 bps, you've got an N-volt
voltage/current swing accomplished in fractions of a microsecond.

These higher harmonics radiate better than the lower ones.

See Peter Smulders's paper on RS-232 interception, abstract included below.
I have a local copy at http://rattler.otc.net/crypto/docs/rs232.pdf 





The Threat of
Information Theft
by Reception of
Electromagnetic
Radiation from
RS-232 Cables
Peter Smulders
Eindhoven University of Technology, Department of Electrical Engineering,
Eindhoven, The Netherlands

Research into the possibility of picking up the
electromagnetic radiation originating from video
display units (VDUs) made clear that this type of
information theft can be committed very easily
[1]. It is not only this type of equipment which
is vulnerable to interception at a distance;
experiments on eavesdropping RS-232 cable
signals prove that it is possible in some cases to
intercept data signals running along an RS-232
cable, by picking up and decoding the
electromagnetic radiation produced by the
cable. This report gives the results of these
Electromagnetic radiation arising from RS-232 cables may
contain information which is related to the original
RS-232 data signals. The seriousness of eavesdropping
risks is shown by estimates of bit error rates feasible with
a standard radio receiver as a function of the separation
distance. In addition to this, results of experimental
eavesdropping are presented.

Keywords: RS-232 cable, Electromagnetic radiation, Eaves-dropping
risks.

Caution: Failure to detect intelligible emanations by the
methods described in this paper do not mean an
installation is secure against interception by
sophisticated and resourceful opponents.


------------------------------------------------------------
      David Honig                   Orbit Technology
     honig@otc.net                  Intaanetto Jigyoubu

		Lewinsky for President '2012




	















From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: William Knowles 
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 02:58:41 +0800
To: DC-Stuff 
Subject: Computer design flaw opens airports to terrorism
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



NEW YORK (Reuters) [2.9.98] - The computer security systems 
that control access to 40 airports worldwide through electronic
badges have a design flaw that could make them vulnerable 
to terrorism, the New York Times reported Sunday.

California computer security consulting firm, MSB Associates, 
found the flaw in December in a routine audit of a large 
California financial services software company, the identity 
of which was not disclosed, according to the newspaper.

Government buildings, including that of the CIA, and prisons
and industries with sensitive military, drug or financial
information or material also use the system and are also
vulnerable to attack, the Times report said.

American and British aviation officials have notified airports 
of the flaw, the Times said.  The system, introduced several 
years ago by a small company, Receptors, Inc., of Torrance, CA., 
relies on a secure, isolated computer in a guarded room to 
control door-locks and an inventory of electronic badges, 
the Times reported.

The company found, however, that in some cases an individual 
could dial in to the computer and create security badges and 
unlock doors.  Receptors' equipment was removed from the House 
of Representatives after the Inspector General found that 757 
former employees appeared on the rolls of active employees and 
had working badges that would have allowed them access to 
the House buildings, the Times said.

Receptors' chief operating officer Dale Williams said that the 
problem is not with the system but with the way it was installed 
in some cases.  Some systems were connected to networks instead 
of being accessible only by a modem that would only be turned 
on when a Receptor employee performed maintenance, Williams 
told the Times.

Testing the system, MSB found that the problem persisted as 
late as last week in the company they audited, the Times said.  
MSB created a fictitious employee, Millard Fillmore, which the 
company spotted on its rolls and removed. However, even after 
he was removed, the faux former president was still able to gain 
access to the company buildings, meaning any dismissed employee
would have the same access, the Times said.


== 
The information standard is more draconian than the gold
standard, because the government has lost control of the
marketplace.  --  Walter Wriston 
==
http://www.dis.org/erehwon/






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 01:36:40 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Laptop TEMPEST (fwd)
Message-ID: <199802091735.LAA21910@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Subject: Re: Laptop TEMPEST 
> Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 17:07:23 +0000
> From: Markus Kuhn 

> Jim Choate wrote on 1998-02-09 06:57 UTC:
> > Doesn't the FCC have to test the RF emissions of all laptops as well as
> > monitors for sale as Class A and Class B in the US? Shouldn't that material
> > be available? I searched the main site, www.fcc.gov, but didn't find
> > anything regarding this.
> 
> I suspect that FCC material is not helpful with regard to Tempest.

As to calculating a realistic estimate of range to intercept, I disagree
strongly.

> Results of such EMI tests only measure the general power spectrum
> emitted by a device. Of interest for Tempest purposes however is
> not the power spectrum, but the spectrum of the cross-correlation

I am aware of how to do Tempest in practice as well as in theory.

The process goes something like this. The first target is the vertical
retrace. This signal is usualy the strongest because the voltage required
(and hence the dv/dt) is the largest to sling that e-beam from the lower
right to the upper left. It usualy resides in the 50-70Hz range. The next
target is the horizontal retrace. It slews the beam from the right edge of
the display to the left in order to start another trace. You can use this
signal to syn both the vertical retrace steps (in order to move the beam
down verticaly to start another trace) as well as the ramp that is required
to slew the beam across the screen to write the pixes. Once these 4 signals
are aquired and fed to the appropriate control terminals of a CRT you are
ready to begin decoding the actual trace data for each line of the display.
This is the hardest since the actual modulation of the e-beam is done via a
screen grid (who said tube theory was out of date?) and that signal is quite
small and generaly has a cardoid emission pattern aligned axialy along the
central axis of the CRT tube. So if given a choise you want your antenna to
be behind the viewer in line with the display.

It is of some import to note that larger displays are easier to aquire
usable signals from since the distances the e-beam is slewed and as a result
the control voltages are much larger.


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |       The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate,       |
   |       but the desire to edit somebody elses words.                 |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                  Sign in Ed Barsis' office         |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 03:49:52 +0800
To: Adam Back 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 10:45 AM -0800 2/9/98, Adam Back wrote:
>Listened to an analyst on the radio expressing view that towards 2010
>China will be leading world economic power.

Like the predictions in 1970 of Russian as the language to learn? Or the
predictions in the 1980s that Japanese was the language to learn?

China is indeed a large country, so any reasonable per capita output makes
it, ranked as a "nation," very large indeed. So?

I'm not much of a believer in nation-states as influencers of world trade.
While it is true that, for example, India is a larger economic power than
Denmark is, so?

Oh, and on the specific prediction...I have my doubts about even the per
capita numbers rising as fast as some think. It's still a Communist system,
with periodic crackdowns on anyone or any entity who is perceived to be
doing "too well."

Sort of like all the moaning and gnashing that Microsoft did research and
invested money and kept working along and didn't "let" Netscape become the
"next desktop OS." Recall that Netscape was claiming the browser would
become the OS, with applets running under the browser.

Anyway, China does not as yet have even a single reasonably state of the
art chip making plant in its entire country. Given the timescales and
learning curves involved, it seems unlikely they'll be a high tech leader
in little over 10 years.

Maybe in terms of gross output of chop sticks, rice, fertilizer, etc.


--Tim May


Just Say No to "Big Brother Inside"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^3,021,377   | black markets, collapse of governments.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 02:10:25 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Godin Interview - Bill G's pie in the eye [CNN]
Message-ID: <199802091806.MAA22270@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> X-within-URL: http://cgi.pathfinder.com/netly/textonly/1,1035,1733,00.html

>     Today's News Let's pie! Let's pie! Nincompoop guys!
>    by Hugues Henry   February 9, 1998
>    
>         Until last week, Noel Godin was relatively unknown in the United
>    States. A 52-year-old Belgian author, film historian, actor ("The
>    Sexual Life of the Belgians"), writer ("Cream and Punishment") and
>    "entarteur" (a Godin coinage that roughly translates as "encaker" or
>    "pie-er"), Godin led the gang that gave to Bill Gates what so many of
>    us only dream of: a big wet pie in the face. The attack took place at
>    the entrance of Le Concert Noble on Arlon Street in Brussels and was
>    widely reported in the press.
>    
>         Godin doesn't own a computer and didn't even know what a URL is.
>    His girlfriend, however, uses a PC. (This interview was conducted and
>    translated by Hugues Henry.)
>    
>    The Netly News: Who are you, Noel Godin?
>    
>    Noel Godin: I'm part of a gang of bad hellions that have declared the
>    pie war on all the unpleasant celebrities in every kind of domain
>    (slogan: "Let's pie! Let's pie! Nincompoop guys!"). We began to act
>    against "empty" celebrities from the artistic world who were thinking
>    they were the cat's whiskers. Then we attacked the TV news business in
>    France, for instance, Patrick Poivre D'Arvor [a famous French TV
>    presenter]. Then it became political with Philippe Douste-Blazy in
>    Cannes, the French minister of culture, or the other French minister
>    Nicolas Sarkozy last year in Brussels.
>    
>    NN When did you first pie someone?
>    
>    Godin: In November 1969, with French writer Marguerite Duras, who
>    represented for us the "empty" novel.
>    
>    NN Why did you choose Bill Gates?
>    
>    Godin: Because in a way he is the master of the world, and then
>    because he's offering his intelligence, his sharpened imagination and
>    his power to the governments and to the world as it is today -- that
>    is to say gloomy, unjust and nauseating. He could have been a utopist,
>    but he prefers being the lackey of the establishment. His power is
>    effective and bigger than that of the leaders of the governments, who
>    are only many-colored servants. So Bill Gates was at the top of our
>    lists of victims. The attack against him is symbolic, it's against
>    hierarchical power itself. Our war cry was explicit: "Let's pie! Let's
>    pie the polluting lolly!"

[text deleted]


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |       The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate,       |
   |       but the desire to edit somebody elses words.                 |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                  Sign in Ed Barsis' office         |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 08:48:13 +0800
To: Lucky Green 
Subject: Re: Driver Licenses
In-Reply-To: <199802082027.PAA00347@users.invweb.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980209122020.00889e90@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 09:00 AM 2/9/98 +0100, Lucky Green wrote:
>The clerk at my local 7/11 assured me the information captured would not
>be forwarded to a central site. Yet. It appears the stores are installing
>these systems to protect themselves against police sting "test buys", in
>which the authorities take persons just days shy of their 21st birthday,
>put theater makeup and/or a gray beard and wig on them and thus entrap
>store clerks into selling controlled substances to minors.

The original stings were done by young-looking cops, but a few
judges (maybe just New York, maybe Federal?  it's been a while)
threw them out - if the cop is 24, then it wasn't selling to a minor,
so it wasn't a crime or necessarily even a liquor license violation.
So the cops need to hire kids (and for tobacco stings, minors.)
This gets into the interesting legal question of whether you can
insist that the decoys be prosecuted.

>As any fool can predict, the information captured will not remain local
>for long. After all, the system is ideal for monitoring gun^H^H^H alcohol
>purchases of parolees, tracking down deadbeat dads, etc.

Yup.  It's really annoying to have to give the California DMV lots of
personal information about myself so they can track down deadbeat dads,
given that I'm not even a dad, much less a deadbeat dad, and so they
can track down Mexicans who want to drive without citizenship papers,
and similar presumptions of potential guilt.


				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Animal Protection League 
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 02:04:18 +0800
To: freedom-knights@jetcafe.org
Subject: Re: rec.guns et.al. blocked by censorware
Message-ID: <2.2.32.19980209205329.006d7ae8@neptunenet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 03:22 PM 2/8/98 -0800, Tim May wrote:
>At 3:02 PM -0800 2/8/98, Igor Chudov @ home wrote:

>>rec.games.mecha Giant robot games. (Moderated) Quest/Illegal/Gamble
>>Violence/Profanity Intol
>
>Perhaps the strategy should be to post material to other newsgroups to get
>them blocked as well. (Though I expect the blocking is not being done using
>robots to monitor for illegal words, as rec.guns would not have been
>blocked this way. Rather, the cyber nannies are probably using their "PC
>judgment" to block groups they don't like.

You need to consider that rec.games.mecha is primarily a dumbed down
alt.flame and includes postings from that obnoxious avowed 300 pound
communist bisexual converted jew Camille Klein (she claims she is down to
275 lbs.).  I wouldn't my kids to read her garbage posts.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mary Ellen Zurko 
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 02:33:56 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: New Security Paradigm Workshop '98 Call For Papers
Message-ID: <199802091812.NAA12129@postman.opengroup.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




========================================================================
                           Call For Papers
                   New Security Paradigms Workshop '98
                      A workshop sponsored by ACM
                        22 - 25 September 1998
========================================================================

Paradigm shifts disrupt the status quo, destroy outdated ideas and 
open the way to new possibilities. This workshop explores deficiencies 
of current computer security paradigms and examines radical new models 
that address those deficiencies. Previous years' workshops have 
identified problematic aspects of traditional security paradigms and 
explored a variety of possible alternatives. Participants have discussed 
alternative models for access control, intrusion detection, new 
definitions of security, privacy and trust, biological and economic 
models of security and a wide variety of other topics. The 1998 workshop 
will strike a balance between building on the foundations laid in past 
years and exploring new directions.

To participate, please submit the following, preferably via e-mail, to 
both Program Chairs (Mary Ellen Zurko and Steven J. Greenwald) by
Friday, 3-April-1998.

1 - Your Paper

You should submit either a research paper, a 5 - 10 page position 
paper or a discussion topic proposal. Softcopy submissions should be 
in Postscript or ASCII format. Papers may besubmitted in hardcopy. 
To submit hardcopy, please mail five 
(5) copies to Program co-chair Steven Greenwald. Please allow adequate 
time for delivery. The hardcopy deadline is 27-March-1998.

Discussion topic proposals should include a description of the topic to 
be discussed, a pro and con position statement on the topic, 
identification of the parties who will uphold each position, any assurances 
that the participants agree to attend, and any other
information that the proposer thinks would support their proposal
(such as who will moderate). One potential topic for discussion is
"Is there a current security paradigm?".

2 - Justification
You should describe, in one page or less, why you think your paper is 
appropriate for the New Security Paradigms Workshop. A good 
justification will describe which aspects of the status-quo security paradignm 
your paper challenges or rejects and which new model or models
your paper proposes or extends.

3 - Attendance Statement
You should state how many authors wish to attend the workshop and should 
indicate whether at least one author will be able to attend for the 
entire duration of the workshop. The program committee will referee the 
papers and notify the authors of acceptance status by 12-June-1998. We 
expect to be able to offer a limited number of scholarships. More 
information will be provided on-line as it becomes available.

4 - The Workshop 
The workshop will offer a creative and constructive environment for 
approximately 25 participants. It will be held at the Boar's Head Inn in 
the vicinity of "historic" Charlottesville, Virginia.


Steering Committee

Bob Blakley, Mary Ellen Zurko, Steven J. Greenwald, 
Darrell Kienzle, Hilary Hosmer


Workshop Co-Chairs

Bob Blakley
IBM
11400 Burnet Road, Mail Stop 9134
Austin, TX 78758 USA
e-mail: blakley@us.ibm.com
voice: +1 (512) 838-8133
fax: +1 (512) 838-0156

Darrell Kienzle
MITRE, Mail Stop W422
1820 Dolley Madison Blvd.
McLean, VA 22102 USA
e-mail: kienzle@mitre.org
voice: +1 (703) 883-5836
fax: +1 (703) 883-1397

Program Committee Co-Chairs
 
Mary Ellen Zurko
The Open Group Research Institute
11 Cambridge Center
Cambridge, MA 02142 USA
e-mail: zurko@opengroup.org
voice: +1 (617) 621-7231
fax: +1 (617) 225-2943

Steven J. Greenwald
2521 NE 135th Street
North Miami, FL 33181 
USA
voice: +1 (305) 944-7842
fax: +1 (305) 944-5746
e-mail: sjg6@gate.net

Program Committee

Alfarez Abdul-Rahman, University College London
Steven Cheung, University of California, Davis
Shaw-Cheng Chuang, University of Cambridge
John Dobson, University of Newcastle, UK
Heather Hinton, Ryerson Polytechnic University, Canada
Tom Lincoln, RAND
Masahiro Mambo, Tohoku University
Catherine Meadows, Naval Research Laboratory
Ruth Nelson, Information System Security
Thomas Riechmann, University of Erlangen-Nuernberg
Marvin Schaefer, Arca Systems, Inc.
Cristina Serban, AT&T Labs
Anil Somayaji, University of New Mexico
Brenda Timmerman, University of Southern California / ISI
Ian Welch, University of Newcastle upon Tyne
John Michael Williams

Local Arrangements
Chenxi Wang (University of Virginia) +1 (804)982-2291

Scholarships
Hilary Hosmer (Data Security Inc.) +1 (781) 275-8231

Publications
Marv Schaefer (ARCA Systems) +1 (410) 309-1780

Publicity
Daniel Essin (University of Southern California) +1 (213) 226-3188

Treasurer/Registration
Dixie Baker (SAIC) +1 (310) 615-0305

ACM-SIGSAC Chair
Ravi Sandhu (George Mason University) +1 (703) 993-1659






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 08:49:07 +0800
To: Ken Williams 
Subject: Re: What's the latest in factoring?
In-Reply-To: <199802072222_MC2-3262-79F5@compuserve.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980209134003.0088b660@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 03:20 AM 2/9/98 -0500, Ken Williams wrote:
>8192 bits is used now.  you can generate 8192 bit keys with PGP 2.6.3ui
>(the unofficial international version).
...
>[note:  you can of course generate MUCH larger keys, but i'm attempting to
>be practical for a change]

There are two countervailing arguments about very long keys;
one is that if you understand cryptography well enough to 
evaluate the issue, you'll know you don't need to bother,
but the other is that if you don't understand crypto very well,
maybe you should be overly conservative.

Remember that factoring difficulty is roughly exponential;
adding logn bits about doubles the cracking workload 
(depending on which factoring method is being used).  
Factoring a 1024-bit number is _much_ harder than factoring a 512-bit
number, and factoring a 2048-bit number is well into age-of-the-universe 
difficulty level.  The practical level of factoring right now
is about 512 bits, for either a distributed internet effort or
an NSA internal one; in the unlikely event that Moore's law lets
us double processing power 100 times in the next 150 years,
that means a 1500-bit key could be crackable.  So 2048 bits
is certainly more than enough for _your_ lifetime.
Increasing processing power 2**100 times is likely to be tough :-)
After all, features in current microprocessors are on the order
of 100 atoms wide.  And by the time we've developed the level of 
nanotechnology needed to speed up processing that much,
there'll be tiny audio bugs listening to you type your passphrase
into your keyboard and reporting it back to the Central Intelligence
Corporation, or picking up the electromagnetic fields from your
direct neural interface, so the crypto strength won't matter much.

But do you really _need_ to factor the prime number to crack PGP?  No.
Remember that PGP uses the RSA key to encrypt session keys for IDEA,
or for signing MD5 hashes of documents, rather than using it directly.
So you can decrypt the message by cracking IDEA, or forge a message
by finding MD5 collisions.  Cracking IDEA's 128-bit keys was estimated
to be about as hard as factoring a 3100-bit number, though improvements
to factoring technology may make a 4096-bit number as easy as IDEA.
Also, PGP 2.x passphrases are encrypted with IDEA, so if they've
got your secring.pgp and can crack 4096-bit keys, you're toast,
even if your passphase isn't just your dog's name spelled backwards.
Similarly, by the time processing power doubles 100 times making your
1500-bit key insecure, MD5 will be long toasted.  Either way,
there's no need to go beyond 4096-bit keys ever, with old-style PGP.
Even if you're being overly conservative, that's more than enough.

Newer versions of PGP dump RSA and IDEA for patent reasons, 
but they also offer alternatives to IDEA and MD5 which may be stronger.
(SHA-1 is stronger than MD5, triple-DES requires immense amounts of
storage to reduce it to a strength similar to IDEA, and just being
extensible means you can replace algorithms that are obsolete.)

The other side of practical is how much work it takes to use long keys,
and how many people who want to talk to you use them.
The answer to the latter is "Not many" for RSA keys over 2048.
The former is about N**2 for decryption and N**3 for key generation,
and about linear for encryption with short exponents,
so it'll take you 64 times as long (once) to generate the key,
and 16 times as long to decrypt or sign anything, compared to
the far-more-than-strong-enough 2048-bit key, which is already
4 times as hard to use and 8 times as hard to generate as a 1024.
It's not worth the bother, unless you know have a really, really 
special application that needs to remain secret until long after
you've overthrown the government.  On the other hand,
at least the RSA patent will have expired by then :-)

The Diffie-Hellman implementations in PGP 5.x will let you use
key lengths up to 4096, but the speed behaviour is a bit different.
In particular, key generation is much faster, so generating
overkill-length keys isn't as boring.


				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 03:29:01 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Washington on the verge of being nuked?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980209090323.007ba100@otc.net>
Message-ID: <1XDNke1w165w@bwalk.dm.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



David Honig  writes:

> The water supply systems of LA are easy targets for causing civil
> disruption, too.

Don't know about LA, but New York City gets its water supplies from open
reservoirs upstate - a terrorist's dream.

> 
> 		Lewinsky for President '2012
Vote for Monica - get a free blow job.

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "D'jinnie" 
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 04:29:04 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Driver Licenses
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



How exactly can they require for the DL to be magnetized if only a few
states do that? My NE license is just a piece of photographed paper
encased in plastic. The only thing that "protects" it from forgery is a
"Don't Drink and drive" and "buckle up Nebraska" silvery warnings that can
be seen under certain angles. I don't see them changing it anytime
soon...thank gods for slow ppl ;) So...seems like there can and will be a
lawsuit against such practices.

---
Reality leaves a lot to the imagination.

jinn@inetnebr.com






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 08:43:01 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: the best justice money can buy --Lessig (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <887036600.23860.193.133.230.33@unicorn.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980209142240.0088b680@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



[Warning: while this may _look_ like just another rant,
there is some technical content below.]

At 07:03 AM 2/9/98 -0800, mark@unicorn.com wrote:
>Jim Choate (ravage@ssz.com) wrote:
>>So do I, and I bet both our incomes combined doesn't add up to 15 minutes of
>>Bill G's and it won't. 
>
>Of course not, because Bill has jackbooted copyright enforcers to subsidise
>his corporation. Without them his income would be dramatically reduced.
....
>Exactly. So tell us how Bill would have become a billionaire without
>copyright?

Gates got rich not by selling good software, but by selling software
very well.  Copyright is part of the process, but it's possible to
sell your product to computer manufacturers with any customization
they need using contracts instead of copyright to make your money.
It's also possible to do copy protection in your software;
games makers do this because they're widely pirated by non-point-source
attacks (kids, mostly) who are hard to track down and sue,
unlike major computer manufacturers who are easier to find,
both to sue if needed or to provide support for.
Copy protection was one of the things people hated about Lotus 123;
I don't remember Excel or MS-DOS ever having it.

When I've used expensive commercial software on Sun computers, 
it often needs to be registered with the machine serial number, 
or used with a floating license server, and refuses to run without it.
PCs don't have built-in serial numbers, but they probably would
if Gates had insisted on it early enough.  Because of copyright law
he didn't _have_ to use technical means of copy protection,
so the Copyright Enforcers have saved him money - but they've
also saved us the aggravation of dealing with copy protection wares.

If you _want_ a serial number on each PC for your product,
dongles are an available option.  They reduce portability somewhat,
but software like Banyan Vines networking uses them on its servers.
So even the fact that IBM and Mr.Bill didn't install one doesn't
stop you from using them - and as anti-crypto law goes away,
uncrackable dongles are becoming easier to make (I don't know if
anybody bothers, though.)
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "D'jinnie" 
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 04:36:17 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: fingerprinting
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Immigration & Naturalization Department has been fingerprinting ppl for
years. Does anyone have any ideas what agencies that information is shared
with and what they need it for anyway?
And what's with that new thumbprint thing in banks? I haven't had occasion
to refuse it yet but I wonder if they'd open an account without it...

---
Reality leaves a lot to the imagination.

jinn@inetnebr.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: BMM 
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 03:41:11 +0800
To: cypherpunks@minder.net
Subject: [test - ignore]
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



ping






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@nowhere.com
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 07:10:34 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: 11 CENTS A CLICK - PINKCASH PAYS CA$H UPFRONT
Message-ID: <199802092242.OAA05496@remote.gsd.com.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Friends,

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My apologies for this short spam, I`m only sending it because as a fellow
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--- TO REMOVE YOURSELF FROM THIS LIST CLICK BELOW ---
    http://207.33.10.200/maillist/remove.html






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: landon dyer 
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 07:39:02 +0800
To: "D'jinnie" 
Subject: Re: Driver Licenses and agreeing to something
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980209153231.00aa4430@shell9.ba.best.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 02:20 PM 2/9/98 -0600, you wrote:
>
>How exactly can they require for the DL to be magnetized if only a few
>states do that? My NE license is just a piece of photographed paper
>encased in plastic. The only thing that "protects" it from forgery is a
>"Don't Drink and drive" and "buckle up Nebraska" silvery warnings that can
>be seen under certain angles. I don't see them changing it anytime
>soon...thank gods for slow ppl ;) So...seems like there can and will be a
>lawsuit against such practices.
>
>Reality leaves a lot to the imagination.

  this can work two ways... especially if the people you're trying
to work are not paying attention

  a friend of mine recently had his state license renewed.  i think
they have the procedure for doing fingerprints down pretty much so they
are inescapable if you want a new D/L, buuut...

  one of the things they make you sign at the bottom of the form is
an agreement that starts out "I agree to...".  my friend ran the form
through a scanner, changed "agree" to "disagree" and printed out his
own version of the form.  he handed it in and naturally the pencil-
pushers never gave it a second glance


-landon





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ? the Platypus {aka David Formosa} 
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 14:45:53 +0800
To: Tim May 
Subject: Re: Soft Tempest
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On Sun, 8 Feb 1998, Tim May wrote:

[...]

> Really? You think so? You think TEMPEST treatment of laptops is more
> expensive than of normal machines?

Laptops have a very tight size and waight budget.  I would immagion this
is the limmiting factor rather then the RF emissions.

- -- 
Please excuse my spelling as I suffer from agraphia see the url in my header. 
Never trust a country with more peaple then sheep.  ex-net.scum and proud
You Say To People "Throw Off Your Chains" And They Make New Chains For
Themselves? --Terry Pratchett.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3i
Charset: noconv

iQCVAwUBNN6OF6QK0ynCmdStAQFJaQQAkszblxy6EsbYL/xpFlrqjsBSYVtfd+nm
lKTSccmEb2be6Eh7RYa9nUxQ1Pi3j/EzTCzkRc1SI1vxG1LfLc7721E9TR18Tk6N
bfcNE7uolpSfMKaQO1J8ilihzc0aSYVFDFseLjID9cMRkwLwy84fmvlPUN0bNq7s
71IrIXzctLk=
=7qfO
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 08:43:07 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980209163616.0088a200@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 08:30 AM 2/9/98 -0600, Jim Choate wrote:
>> FCC RF/EMC testing is well nigh useless for TEMPEST protection.
>
>I disagree, it would give you a gross baseline on the total emissions
>between monitors and laptops. That field strenght measurement would at least
>allow you to calculate radiuses of equal strength to calculate approximately
>how far the emissions are from each class of device for equal probabilities
>of detection. One of the specific goals is to measure how effective the
>device is at effecting other co-located devices (such as seeing ghost images
>on other monitors or causing static in paging equipment).

FCC specs aren't real tight.

My old laptop*, which passed FCC specs (at least when it was new,
before being hauled around on airplanes and trains, dropped a few times,
having cooked parts replaced, and generally getting treated like a laptop),
broadcast enough emissions that its video would show up on my parents' TV
when used 2-4 meters away.  The video sync wasn't right, so there were
several hard-to-read images of the screen on the TV, but it was obviously
emitting enough that a properly tuned receiver could read it.
On the other hand, it doesn't bother my TV from 8-10 meters away,
but I've got cable, while my parents use Real Rabbit-Ear Antennas and 
some kind of antenna-booster widget.

I have heard that passive-matrix emits less, but I don't know
if that's true from a TEMPEST standpoint or only noise output.

It is a bit easier to put a laptop into an RF-shielded enclosure,
but enclosures that worked fine for harmonics of 4.77 MHz machines
don't necessarily block harmonics of 477 MHz machines :-)
especially critical are the penetrations used to get air and
fiber-optic connections through, which are basically waveguides -
once the wavelength of the signal is short enough, they lose.
___
* AT&T Globalyst 250P, which is a NEC Versa Pentium-75 with a Death-Star
painted on it.  It has the expensive active-matrix 24-bit-color 640x480
screen (sigh - I'd rather have had the cheaper 800x600 8-bit-color :-).
A couple years old, and the case was a bit dented so perhaps it had been 
more radio-tight when it was new.
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Markus Kuhn 
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 03:21:29 +0800
To: cypherpunks@sirius.infonex.com
Subject: Re: SOFT TEMPEST
In-Reply-To: <34DDEB81.65726105@InfoWar.Com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



"WebWarrior3@InfoWar.Com" wrote on 1998-02-08 17:29 UTC:
> So, when the software police pull up outside of my
> place of business see that there are six instances of a program being
> displayed with one license I can expect a warrant to be issued?  That
> would suck.

The software that displays the license number plus activation instance
random code in your windows toolbar as an easy receivable spread
spectrum barcode would have to take care of this depending on how
exactly your license agreement is formulated. This can be resolved
in many ways.

The technique of hunting software license violators via Tempest
monitoring is not really targeted at providing 100% accurate
and reliable identification of abuse at any point of time as
you seem to imply. Nor is it alone an effective tool of proofing
abuse. It is more an additional tool in getting an initial hint
that a company is violating a software license at large scale
(e.g., has bought a single copy of an expensive CAD software but
uses it on over 80 workstations all day long), which then can
justify to get court relevant proof by traditional means of
police investigation.

> Unfortunatley, I do not have the time to read through the entire
> document at the URL provided, and can't save it either from the .pdf ...
> the defensive measures sound interesting.

One obvious countermeasure are Tempest shielded computers or rooms,
but these are rather expensive, inconvenient and not always reliable.
Another countermeasure are software reverse-engineering and modifying
the broadcast code. This is around as difficult as removing dongle
checking code: Not impossible, but for the majority of users too
inconvenient.

> Also, does this only work with CRTs or can it detect LCD too?

Oh, yes, beautifully! Ross' TFT laptop radiates better
than the CRT on my desk here. It is true that LCD displays do not have
the <400 kHz signals caused by the deflection coils that are of concern
for the TCO/MPR low-radiation standards. But they radiate as well in the
>1 MHz range where the information carrying signals are
broadcasted as harmonics of for instance the dot clock rate.
LCDs are connected to high-speed drivers with sharp edges and lot's
of nice harmonics.

One more remark: This was so far unfunded research initiated by
our private interest in the subject of compromising radiation. In
this field, the available research literature is very close to zero
(there are the van-Eck/Moeller/Smulder papers and that's it basically), and
all the real knowledge is tightly guarded by the military and diplomatic
community. We hope that developing commercial applications for
compromising radiation will open the way to non-military funding
and open research in this field. Copyright protections seems to be
an interesting application. Tempest research requires some
expensive equipment (special antennas, very high-speed DSP
experimental systems, an absorber room, etc.). If Microsoft or
someone else would like to make some Tempest funding available, I think
this should be highly welcome if the results are going to be published
in the open literature. There is no good reason, why knowledge about
compromising emanations should be restricted to the military
community in a time where industrial espionage with these techniques
is probably a larger threat to economies than the results of foreign
intelligence operations.

The preprint of our first paper on this is now on my home page.

Markus

-- 
Markus G. Kuhn, Security Group, Computer Lab, Cambridge University, UK
email: mkuhn at acm.org,  home page: 






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Brian B. Riley" 
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 06:09:25 +0800
To: 
Subject: Re: Driver Licenses
Message-ID: <199802092153.QAA07449@mx01.together.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On 2/9/98 12:25 PM, Tim May (tcmay@got.net)  passed this wisdom:

>Lucky is right that that "underage stings" are on the increase. 
>Underage persons, often in high school, beome self-righteour 
>warriors in the War On Demon Rum, and "narc out" their local 
>shopkeepers.

As I write this there are advertisements up in the halls at the HS 
(obviously with school blessings) where I teach (a few miles east of 
Burlington, VT) specifically soliciting 17 year olds to work for a 
private company under contract to the state to 'test buy' tobacco 
products. I haven't heard about any takers yet nor anything backfiring.

>Hey, it would serve these junior narcs right if, upon being carded 
>and being shown to be underage, a store owner made a citizen's 
>arrest. Perhaps putting the perp in the back freezer for a few 
>hours would send a message.

  I wonder, though, how long it would go on if some shopkeeper indeed did 
this? But, is it a crime to try to buy booze or tobacco underage, if you 
do not try to show fraudulent indentification?


Brian B. Riley --> http://members.macconnect.com/~brianbr
 For PGP Keys  

 "He's not dead -- He's electroencephalographically challenged."






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Markus Kuhn 
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 01:11:17 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Soft Tempest
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Tim May wrote on 1998-02-09 06:14 UTC:
> The physics suggests just the opposite: the RF emissions from laptops are
> expected to be lower from first principles, and, I have heard, are
> measurably much lower. (I say "have heard" because I don't have any access
> to RF measurement equipment...I once spent many hours a day working inside
> a Faraday cage, but that was many years ago.)
> 
> The first principles part is that the deflection yokes in a CRT are the
> largest radiated component of what got named "van Eck radiation." (I'd just
> call it RF, but whatever.)

You have to differentiate between information carrying emanations
and non-information carrying ones. The horizontal and vertical
deflection coils produce a lot of radiation at harmonics of the
line and frame rate of your CRT, but this signal energy is not
related to your screen content (only to your video mode), and therefore
not of much concern for the eavesdropper. The low-radion monitor
standards look only at those signal (<400 kHz). Therefore having
a TCO92 monitor provides you absolutely no advantage with respect
to eavesdropping.

The information carrying signals of VDUs are in much higher frequency
ranges in the VHF/UHF bands. Laptops are pretty good broadcasters
there, too.

Markus

-- 
Markus G. Kuhn, Security Group, Computer Lab, Cambridge University, UK
email: mkuhn at acm.org,  home page: 






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Markus Kuhn 
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 01:14:13 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Laptop TEMPEST
In-Reply-To: <199802090657.AAA19180@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate wrote on 1998-02-09 06:57 UTC:
> Doesn't the FCC have to test the RF emissions of all laptops as well as
> monitors for sale as Class A and Class B in the US? Shouldn't that material
> be available? I searched the main site, www.fcc.gov, but didn't find
> anything regarding this.

I suspect that FCC material is not helpful with regard to Tempest.
Results of such EMI tests only measure the general power spectrum
emitted by a device. Of interest for Tempest purposes however is
not the power spectrum, but the spectrum of the cross-correlation
between an internal signal-of-interest in the device and the
emanated radiation. There are special cross-correlation meters
available to measure this, but this is not the equipment used in
EMI tests. I have here two patents filed by the German equivalent
of the NSA, that describes cross-correlation techniques for the
"detection of highly distorted digital signals". Measurement equipment
along those lines are what you need in order to estimate the
information carrying components of the emanated spectrum.

You can do cross-correlation not only between the VGA cable output
and the signal picked up by an antenna or a power/ground line tap,
but also between internal bus lines, the keyboard power/data lines,
the read amplifier signal in your harddisk, etc. Cross-correlation
tests are also useful to measure cross-talk effects between neighbor
cables in your building. As mentioned in our paper, secret data on
your LAN can easily leave your building via phone cables that ran
parallel to your network cable for only a few meters.

Markus

-- 
Markus G. Kuhn, Security Group, Computer Lab, Cambridge University, UK
email: mkuhn at acm.org,  home page: 






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 07:17:52 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: TEMPEST (fwd)
Message-ID: <199802092316.RAA24851@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Subject: Re: TEMPEST
> Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 21:07:22 +0000
> From: Markus Kuhn 

> Things are somewhat more complicated and I am not convinced that
> the e-beam is the primary source of radiation.

Only of the individual pixel modulations. Go back and re-read my post you
missed a whole slew of implications. The vertical and horizontal positioning
is via the yoke not the screen grid. Electrostatic steering of an e-beam
is expensive and slow, you can't change the charge on the plates that fast.

In regards the data for the individual scan lines, where else are you going
to modulate that beam than a screen grid? This is a high-voltage low-current 
point. You can't drive the beam off the screen, the inside of the tube is
coated in a carbon based chemical called 'aquadag' that will short the beam
to ground and blow your flyback transformer in short order. Not to mention
that the inertia of the e-beam will be a bit of a hassle to deal with as
well. It won't move that fast.

> Your claim that
> the Tempest radiation is modulated by the screen grid does not agree with
> my practical experience: All signals I get are close to harmonics of
> the dot clock and not of the screen grid rate.

The screen grid is where the dot clock goes to modulate the e-beam, or is
your claim we're going to modulate the filament directly? If so I would
suggest you re-take your electronics class and learn how to read a schematic
a tad better. A short trip to either your local library or electronics
repair business will pay off wonders. You're looking for a Sam's Photo-Facts
on the particular monitor you are examining. There is also the fact that the
dot clock itself is a low-voltage low-current device until it gets to the
tube drive electronics where it switches the high voltage drivers to the
tube.

If your getting your signal off the harmonics you're doing it the hard way.
Go back and re-read your texts on Fourier Transforms and then do a
power-spectrum analysis on the signals to the tube; what you will find is
that the primary frequencies get the majority of the signal (eg 1st harmonic
of a square wave (ie a dot clock) only gets, at best, 1/3 of the energy of
the primary).

In any case, it's the high voltage emissions of the tube drive electronics
that are detected, not the small 5V to 12V drive signals. The same is true
for LCD, Plasma, and other flat panel displays. You detect the high-voltage
emissions of the display drive electronics. Note that on active transistor
displays (where you don't have the high voltage bias as in a LCD) you don't
get these sorts of emission magnitudes and they are *much* harder to detect.
In addition in the active transistor displays the display drive electronics
should buffer the data and so, unlike a CRT, you don't have to send each
individual pixel every time. You can actualy send only the changes and
impliment those. Unless you're integrating the signals you receive your
Tempest display will be gibberish.

> In addition, the
> Tempest monitor cannot distinguish between an all-black and an all-white
> image, which it should in the case of a screen-grid caused modulation.

What? This is malarky. If the screen is black the filament emissions are
being blocked by the screen grid and the charge cloud gets shunted to ground
via the aquadag coating. This means there is no current, and as a
consequence no emitted rf field to monitor. And what keeps it from blowing
the flyback in this case is that the charge cloud acts as a capacitor
and limits the dv/dt to something that the flyback can deal with, it has to
leak past the screen grid.

You can also discern this using Tempest to monitor NTSC where the black
pulse is a negative going pulse at the end of the scanline waveform. It's
there so the receiver electronics can know when to turn the e-beam off so
you don't get those annoying retrace lines across your screen when it moved
back to the left and down one line. Since it's a negative going pulse with
respect to the vertical and horizontal retrace it's dv/dt is going in the
opposite direction. If you get a schematic find the horizontal retrace clock
and disable it and monitor the display.

> If there is indeed a screen-grid modulation, then it is *much* weaker
> than any modulation that you get by software dithering.

This is just plain silly. The switching of the software is drowned in a sea
of such noise on the board. Anyone who claims they can pull a valid signal
off a cpu pcb at more than a few feet is a liar or else they have some
pretty remarkable extra-terrestrial technology. There are litteraly 10's of
thousands of state transitions all over the pcb that are going on in
parallel and the positive transition fields cancel the negative transition
fields so what you end up with is a hash of noise. 30 seconds of looking at
a spectrum analyzer will make this obvious.

In modern computers what drives the crt is the data residing in the video
frame buffer that drives the output electronics on the card and not the
data on the cpu pcb.

> Monitors are pretty strange antennas: For instance, my monitor still
> radiates quite well (although noticeably weaker) if I switch its power
> supply off.

It can take as much as 20 minutes to drain a good high-voltage supply (read
the documents of all power supplies that operate above a couple hundred
volts, it should include the discharge time constant - you want to wait
through at least 3 of those). There is also the issue that a crt tube sitting
unconnected in the open dry air will develop enough of a charge to knock the
shit out of you if you're silly enough to grab the grounding connection on
the side with one hand and be grounded to earth with the other. So even if
the machine is turned off you get a continous charge build up on the tube
that gets drained through various resistors to ground. Unfortunately this
is a pretty incoherent signal and low power as well.

I routinely deal with voltages in the 1MV range and currents (usualy not at
those voltages) in the 100A range (I build 12 ft. Tesla Coils for grins and
giggles that throw discharges in the 8-12 ft. range). When you start talking
about voltages above a few hundred there isn't any such thing as 'off', only
a higher impedance path to ground and longer time constants.

NOTE: if you do decide to play in your monitor then make shure that one of
      your hands is in your back pocket at *ALL* times. Otherwise make shure
      there is somebody there to call 911 so they can haul your body off. If
      you don't the discharge leakage current through your heart *when* you
      make a mistake will cause it to go into ventricular fibrillation
      (v-fib). Unless you got a de-fibrillator handy your dead in about 3
      minutes.

> Just the passive resonance of the chassis gives a clear
> signal in around a meter radius with a simple untuned dipole antenna.

If they get within a meter of my machine I seriously doubt they will be
using VanEck but rather rubber hose or eye ball monitoring...

We're talking real world here not some Tom Clancy novel.

> Switching off a monitor alone does not protect you from eavesdropping
> a VDU signal, especially if the signal is not just text but a pattern
> optimized for reception.

True, but instead of being within a couple hundred feet (the average
succesful range for interception) you're now talking about 10's of feet.
At that range my dogs barking will let me know that Mallet is in the house.

> After I unplug the VGA cable however, I can't pick up any signal with
> our Tempest receiver unless I bring the antenna almost in contact with
> the cable or connector.

Duh, can you say 'impedance'....go back and study your analog and rf
electronics. A monitors off impedance per line is somewhere in the 50 to 75
ohms range. The impedance of a wire hanging in the air is much higher and as
a consequence the current flow and as a result the emitted em field will be
much lower.

> The closed PC chassis also appears to be no very
> big source of VDU emanations, certainly much below the levels that
> our receiver can detect.

And this surprises you? A pc chassis, provided you put all the screws in it
and don't have lots of holes in it, is a Faraday Cage, it's the reason they
make them out of expensive metal and not cheaper plastic.

A very effective method to confuse Van Eck is to have several monitors
sitting next to each other with different displays. A more active display
is much more effective than one that is static (eg. such as a person typing
in an email to cypherpunks).

I strongly suggest the following reference:

High-speed Digital Design: a handbook of black magic
H.W. Johnson, M. Graham
ISBN 0-13-395724-1
~$60 US


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |       The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate,       |
   |       but the desire to edit somebody elses words.                 |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                  Sign in Ed Barsis' office         |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Markus Kuhn 
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 01:46:07 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Soft Tempest
In-Reply-To: <199802090715.CAA24788@the-great-machine.mit.edu>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Ryan Lackey wrote on 1998-02-09 07:15 UTC:
> The paper pretty clearly says laptop LCDs are not sufficiently quiet.  Until
> I read this, I was under the impression they were; perhaps passive matrix
> screens are and active are not.

I even used a laptop for a Tempest demo in Ross' undergraduate security
course here at Cambridge, because it gave such a clear signal and was
much easier to transport than a CRT.

> (actually, I can totally understand that
> wrt the pulse modulation not present in modern crts)

I added this sentence in the paper only for those who had read the
van Eck paper before, which in this respect is a little bit out-of-date
and does not describe today's VDU technology.

> I had a real bitch of a time finding open source TEMPEST information, which
> is part of why the idea was back-burnered.  I think there is a concerted
> effort on the part of the government to prevent open source discussion of
> the topic, through manipulation of research money, etc.

Same experience here ... :-(

Markus

-- 
Markus G. Kuhn, Security Group, Computer Lab, Cambridge University, UK
email: mkuhn at acm.org,  home page: 






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 10:02:42 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Washington on the verge of being nuked?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980209124816.0079ba20@otc.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980209174919.007b18a0@otc.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 06:34 PM 2/9/98 EST, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote:
>One can "disrupt" the water supply by just making a credible assertion that
>it's been poisoned - but it won't kill nearly as many people as actual
>poison (or virus/bacteria).
>

Psychops?
That doesn't work when you have sufficient health-orgs and telecomm
to get the word out that the water's ok.

Actually, a lot of people drink bottled water here :-) but 
the 10 million kilos of shit excreted by LA every day would
build up pretty fast.

Electric power is probably as vunerable as waterways, despite 
conscious efforts to make the grid redundant.  Of course
both are controlled by computers, as uncle sam is realizing.
In LA, all it takes to create a looting riot is to cut electricity
to the city's alarm systems... 

....

Major freeway intersections are closed down 2-3 times a year in LA
due to bomb threats, which are usually just threats -no bombs are found.
You can snarl the roads very easily at the right time of day, since
the roads' bandwidth is already exceeded and congestion persists after the
clog is removed.

At *least* once a month a major piece of freeway is shut down for
an hour or so for "police activity", one hears on traffic reports, often
around rush
hour.

Crypto relevance: traffic signals can be controlled by modem, a Civ-E
friend tells me.  They are built to be fail-safe (blinking red), but
ever seen  rush hour commuters deal with all blinking red?  Even tanks
can't get through a gridlocked city (a factor in Korean invasion planning).




------------------------------------------------------------
      David Honig                   Orbit Technology
     honig@otc.net                  Intaanetto Jigyoubu

		Lewinsky for President '2012




	















From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "WebWarrior3@InfoWar.Com" 
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 12:23:46 +0800
To: cypherpunks 
Subject: RE: Cyber 'Nannys"
Message-ID: <34DF87FE.611AA4EF@InfoWar.Com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



An anonymous person wrote, in reference to CyberSitter type 'blocking'
software:

"These companies are attempting to provide the services desired by
their customers... They give concerned parents a sense of safety..."

While I do not disagree that these companies should be able to market
their products, I wholeheartedly disagree with the fact that often their
customers (the adults who bought the software or subscribed to he
'service') are not allowed to have a list of what is actually blocked,
and decide for themselves if they want their kids to have access to any
of these sites.  It would be beating a dead horse to describe, here,
the potential value of some of the information that is blocked by these
packages; one only has to take a look at any of the published news
reports (or actually use one's sense of reason) to see that there are
many web sites that contain some of the words that are automatically
bloked by these 'services' that are absolutely not...smut , hate speech, or illegal/illicitly oriented.

On another, perhaps more severe (to you, Anonymous poster,) angle, they
DO NOT, NOR CAN THEY provide a genuine saftey zone for the children who
are to be 'protected.'  They are providing a false sense of security to
parents who, for one reason or another, feel that they are not able to
provide their children with direction on what to, and what not to, view
on the internet as well as what to do if the instance arises that
something that is deemed taboo happens to pop up on their monitor when
they click on the 'Chutes and Ladders' web site .

I am assuming that there is no latent support for the use of these
packages in public libraries, so I won't go into that issue.  In
general, these programs are flat out crap.  They purport to do something
that is impossible to accomplish and they often refuse to even inform
their customers what they actually ARE doing.

Scott R. Brower
http://www.infowar.com
http://www.efflorida.org







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 07:59:43 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: SOFT TEMPEST (fwd)
Message-ID: <199802092357.RAA25254@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Subject: Re: SOFT TEMPEST 
> Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 16:44:52 +0000
> From: Markus Kuhn 

> The software that displays the license number plus activation instance
> random code in your windows toolbar as an easy receivable spread
> spectrum barcode would have to take care of this depending on how
> exactly your license agreement is formulated. This can be resolved
> in many ways.

Has your technique been verified by any 3rd parties who are not affiliated
with you or your firm? Do you expect to do any public demonstrations of this
technology in the near future? Would it be possible to arrange for a
indipendant 3rd party to receive a test setup for evaluation?

> The technique of hunting software license violators via Tempest
> monitoring is not really targeted at providing 100% accurate
> and reliable identification of abuse at any point of time as

That's good. The thought that given current technology a signal reception
van could pull one monitors display out of a building that could potentialy
have 1,000+ pc's (my last job had about 1500/floor and 3 floors) at a range
of say 200 ft. is truly incomprehensible. If it works that is a feat worth
many laurels.

> (e.g., has bought a single copy of an expensive CAD software but
> uses it on over 80 workstations all day long), which then can
> justify to get court relevant proof by traditional means of
> police investigation.

You show up in my companies parking lot without my permission and start
snooping you'll be the one sitting in jail facing industrial espionage
charges. Any defence lawyer worth a damn would be able to blow this out of
the water, private citizens don't have the right to invade my privacy any
more than police without a warrant - and that take probable cause.

> One obvious countermeasure are Tempest shielded computers or rooms,

It's the monitors that need shielded, the computers already sit in a Faraday
cage. Simple copper screen glued to the inside of the monitor case with a
paper sheild and then grounded will resolve that problem. Be shure to put a
grounded screen on the front of the tube as well (similar to those radiation
shields that some companies make that don't work because they aren't
grounded).

> Another countermeasure are software reverse-engineering and modifying
> the broadcast code. This is around as difficult as removing dongle
> checking code: Not impossible, but for the majority of users too
> inconvenient.

A simple Gunn Diode oscillator driving a broad-band 100W rf amplifier will
swamp any signal you could hope to catch. Cost, about $250 ea. With the
new low-power transmitter rulings there wouldn't be much anyone could do
about it either.

> an interesting application. Tempest research requires some
> expensive equipment (special antennas, very high-speed DSP
> experimental systems, an absorber room, etc.).

Gee, and to think that when I've done this sort of stuff I only used a
Commodore 1702 composite monitor and some rf amplifiers and filters...
Duh, silly me. Any claim that it can *only* be done with lots of money is
almost always wrong.


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |       The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate,       |
   |       but the desire to edit somebody elses words.                 |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                  Sign in Ed Barsis' office         |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 03:01:00 +0800
To: igor@Algebra.COM
Subject: what is video-collage.com?
In-Reply-To: <199802082302.RAA18137@manifold.algebra.com>
Message-ID: <199802091802.SAA00773@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




I have long noticed lots of video-collage in the distributed cpunks
list headers.

Now we see:

> From: "Igor Chudov @ home" 
> To: cypherpunks@www.video-collage.com, freedom-knights@jetcafe.org,

ie sent to cypherpunks@www.video-collage.com by ichudov@ the same.

What does this mean Igor?

Adam





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 08:40:02 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Washington on the verge of being nuked?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980209124816.0079ba20@otc.net>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



David Honig  writes:

> 
> 
> LA has a combination of closed pipes and open aqueducts, often
> in remote areas.  Simple disruption, not poisoning, would
> be easier.  The resivoirs don't hold enough for more
> than a few days.

One can "disrupt" the water supply by just making a credible assertion that
it's been poisoned - but it won't kill nearly as many people as actual
poison (or virus/bacteria).


---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 02:58:22 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Argentina rules: no software copyright
Message-ID: <199802091834.SAA00865@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




(from cpsr list, from edupage)

: ARGENTINE SUPREME COURT RULES SOFTWARE PIRACY LEGAL 
:
: Executives of Microsoft, IBM and Unisys are protesting a recent
: Argentine Supreme Court decision ruling that antiquated copyright
: laws don't cover computer software.  Software makers point out that
: royalties aren't paid on about 70% of the software sold in
: Argentina, resulting in roughly $165 million in revenue losses
: annually.  A recent study by Price Waterhouse & Co. indicates the
: biggest abusers are Argentine federal and local government agencies
: and small private businesses.  "There's no culture in Argentina of
: assigning value to software," says a Unisys unit president.  (Wall
: Street Journal 6 Feb 98)

I like best Mark Grant's comment on why copyright should be scrapped:
it is a form of government subsidy.

Adam





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 03:13:40 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: time to learn chinese?
Message-ID: <199802091845.SAA00883@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Listened to an analyst on the radio expressing view that towards 2010
China will be leading world economic power.

Anyway interesting was that the analyst expressed that in her view
China was keen to avoid the mistakes of the socialist welfare state as
market liberalization and prosperity grew.  She considered the burden
of a welfare state to be a large burden which would mean that
China would outstrip growth in the west.

Also she stated that she thought democracy was in decline.  When
interviewed asked about human rights, she opined that these would
improve as the market became freer.  She stated that China hopes to
bypass democracy going straight to free market.

China may be interesting in a few more decades...

Adam





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 08:47:42 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Laptop TEMPEST (fwd)
Message-ID: <199802100045.SAA25569@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 16:36:16 -0800
> From: Bill Stewart 
> Subject: Re: Laptop TEMPEST (fwd)

> At 08:30 AM 2/9/98 -0600, Jim Choate wrote:
> >> FCC RF/EMC testing is well nigh useless for TEMPEST protection.
> >
> >I disagree, it would give you a gross baseline on the total emissions

> FCC specs aren't real tight.


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |       The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate,       |
   |       but the desire to edit somebody elses words.                 |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                  Sign in Ed Barsis' office         |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 08:51:01 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: the best justice money can buy --Lessig (fwd)
Message-ID: <199802100054.SAA25744@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 14:22:40 -0800
> From: Bill Stewart 
> Subject: Re: the best justice money can buy --Lessig (fwd)

> Gates got rich not by selling good software, but by selling software
> very well.

His original money was made by being the first company to sell a CP/M
compliant BASIC. It was very heavily pirated and Microsoft became a de facto
standard for S-100 using CP/M. Then because of Digital Research's failure to
treat IBM with respect he was selected as the supplier for their basic OS.
This decision was made because of his reputation with CP/M software. Because
of this connection Microsoft was in a position such that Gates couldn't help
but make money as long as IBM was selling pc's. And considering nobody ever
lost their job buying IBM it was a shoe in that IBM was going to sell
machines. His first versions of Windows didn't sell. He looked at what was
selling which was a GUI with more features and better looks. He hired the
right people to impliment those changes and wallah he had a winner. All
those pc's running his old os no longer had to go to Desqview and DR to get
a GUI that was acceptable to their users. From their they have used various
marketing and licensing tricks to increase his market share.

> Copyright is part of the process, but it's possible to
> sell your product to computer manufacturers with any customization
> they need using contracts instead of copyright to make your money.

But a company doesn't make money from selling software to computer
manufacturers, they make money by having their software on pc's that the
users use.

> It's also possible to do copy protection in your software;
> games makers do this because they're widely pirated by non-point-source
> attacks (kids, mostly) who are hard to track down and sue,
> unlike major computer manufacturers who are easier to find,
> both to sue if needed or to provide support for.
> Copy protection was one of the things people hated about Lotus 123;
> I don't remember Excel or MS-DOS ever having it.

And in the long run non-copyrighted software has a significant market
advantage. It's smaller, it is more stable, and people don't get as pissed
off when they want to make their backups.


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |       The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate,       |
   |       but the desire to edit somebody elses words.                 |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                  Sign in Ed Barsis' office         |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 02:14:34 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: rec.guns et.al. blocked by censorware
Message-ID: <199802091755.SAA07601@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>That the "cyber nannies" are blocking it (and other similarly nonsexual,
>nonprofane newsgroups) is exactly what was expected. These cyber nannies
>become tools for political correctness.
>
>Perhaps the strategy should be to post material to other newsgroups to get
>them blocked as well. (Though I expect the blocking is not being done using
>robots to monitor for illegal words, as rec.guns would not have been
>blocked this way. Rather, the cyber nannies are probably using their "PC
>judgment" to block groups they don't like.

These companies are attempting to provide the services desired by
their customers.  These are generally cautious, conservative parents
who want to allow their young children access to the internet without
them stumbling over dangerous or disturbing information.  Like it or not,
many parents are very protective of their children.  We have no right
to force our own views of childrearing on them.

The filtering companies are filling a legitimate need in the marketplace.
They are not evil and they are not trying to prevent adults from viewing
the material they desire via their own personal accounts.  They give
concerned parents a sense of safety in allowing their children to use
the internet, and in that way allow young people access to the net who
would not otherwise be allowed to use it.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 09:04:00 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: What's the latest in factoring? (fwd)
Message-ID: <199802100105.TAA25850@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 13:40:03 -0800
> From: Bill Stewart 
> Subject: Re: What's the latest in factoring?

> Remember that factoring difficulty is roughly exponential;
> adding logn bits about doubles the cracking workload 
> (depending on which factoring method is being used).  
> Factoring a 1024-bit number is _much_ harder than factoring a 512-bit
> number, and factoring a 2048-bit number is well into age-of-the-universe 
> difficulty level.  The practical level of factoring right now
> is about 512 bits, for either a distributed internet effort or
> an NSA internal one; in the unlikely event that Moore's law lets
> us double processing power 100 times in the next 150 years,
> that means a 1500-bit key could be crackable.  So 2048 bits
> is certainly more than enough for _your_ lifetime.

That depends on what current and near-future medical technology can do
to extend the lifespan of humans. If your assumption is that most folks
younger than about 50 will be dead in 75 years I suspect that you're in for
a nasty surprise. The reason I posted those cc:'s regarding such research is
enough that current estimates of key strength based on human life times need
to be re-evaluated. It is my suspicion that within 10-15 years it will be
possible, as a matter of course in regards employer medical insurance, to
have ones biological clock reset such that the lifespan will be extended 3-4
times with the main limiting factor being cancers. Under those conditions
key strength lifetime computations need to be re-evaluated.



    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |       The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate,       |
   |       but the desire to edit somebody elses words.                 |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                  Sign in Ed Barsis' office         |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 09:18:50 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Driver Licenses (fwd)
Message-ID: <199802100120.TAA25990@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 02:12:05 +0100 (CET)
> From: Lucky Green 
> Subject: Re: Driver Licenses

> On Mon, 9 Feb 1998, Tim May wrote:
> > If a U.S. Passport is not considered enough I.D., because it doesn't have
> > the Big Brother Inside magstripe, one walks away from the transaction.
> 
> Just as a data point, in the State of Oregon, an US passport is *not*
> valid ID for alcohol purchases. Magstripe or no magstripe.

You can add Texas to that list. You can use a passport to get a Tx DL or ID
card but it in and of itself is worthless for personal ID in most cases.
Most places here specificaly require a valid drivers license from some
state, they don't seem too interested in if Big Brother certifies your
identity.


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |       The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate,       |
   |       but the desire to edit somebody elses words.                 |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                  Sign in Ed Barsis' office         |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Blanc 
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 11:48:08 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: What Jim Choate doesn't know
In-Reply-To: <199802100200.DAA04492@basement.replay.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980209193915.00879d60@cnw.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Anonymous wrote:

>Anybody else have the same experience?
......................................................................


You must understand:  it's basically understood.  


    ..
Blanc





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Attila T. Hun" 
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 04:20:45 +0800
To: John Young 
Message-ID: <19980209.195159.attila@hun.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

    statistics dont lie, but liars use statistics.

    back to the same old square one --getting the couch tomatoes
    (they've gone soft) riled enough to understand the lies. fat
    chance, as long as they can be fat, dumb, and happy the sloths
    will still vote their wallets.

>The New York Times, February 9, 1998, p. D10:
>U.S. Losing Battle on Control of Data Encryption, Study Says
  [...]
>That finding directly contradicts the Clinton Administration's assertions
>in Congressional hearings that it has the support of most nations on this
>issue. ...

>William Reinsch, the Under Secretary for export administration in the
>United States Commerce Department, denied that the study contradicted the
>Administration's assertions. "All the Administration has ever said is that 
>there are more countries that go farther  than we do," Mr. Reinsch said. 
>"The study  confirms that."
      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3i
Charset: latin1
Comment: No safety this side of the grave. Never was; never will be

iQBVAwUBNN9fr7R8UA6T6u61AQHPtgH/cW5VUP54BrXk9t4KjP4LwuxjZ1jsp+0u
ghMqpRSq6p88LKrdMIkaLxq4NYj5+anH0OLZY5bm86/YUmrEp5BFVA==
=nf7E
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 10:06:02 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Financial Cryptography 1998 Workshop UPDATE
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Resent-Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 14:37:24 -0400
X-Authentication-Warning: online.offshore.com.ai: list set sender to
fc98-request@offshore.com.ai using -f
Subject: Financial Cryptography 1998 Workshop UPDATE
To: fc98@offshore.com.ai
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 10:20:13 -0800
From: Ian Goldberg 
Resent-From: fc98@offshore.com.ai
X-Mailing-List:  archive/latest
X-Loop: fc98@offshore.com.ai
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: fc98-request@offshore.com.ai

CALL FOR PARTICIPANTS - UPDATE

The Financial Cryptography 1998 (FC98)
Workshop for Senior Managers and IS Professionals

March 2-6, 1998

The InterIsland Hotel
Anguilla, BWI



FC98 is sponsored by:

   * RSA Data Security Inc. 
   * C2NET, Inc. 
   * Hansa Bank & Trust Company Limited, Anguilla 
   * Sicherheit und Privat- International Bank
   * Offshore Information Services 
   * e$ 

FC98 Conference and Exhibition
February 23-27, 1998

FC98 Workshop for Senior Managers and IS Professionals
March 2-6, 1998

The Inter-Island Hotel
Anguilla, BWI

Workshop and Conference Reservations: 

Last year, the Financial Cryptography '97 (FC97) Workshop was the world's
first intensive financial cryptography workshop for senior managers and IS
professionals. This year, the Financial Cryptography '98 (FC98) Workshop
will be held Monday through Friday, March 2-6, 1998, at the Inter-Island
Hotel on the Carribbean island of Anguilla.

This workshop will follow the peer-reviewed financial cryptography
conference and commercial exhibition, Financial Cryptography 1998 (FC98),
which will be held the preceding week, February 23-27, 1998.

The goals of the combined workshop, conference and exhibition are:

   * to give senior managers and IS professionals a solid understanding of
     the fundamentals of strong cryptgraphy as applied to financial
     operations on public networks,
   * to provide a peer-reviewed forum for important research in financial
     cryptography and the effects it will have on society, and,
   * to showcase the newest products in financial cryptography.

The Workshop

Ian Goldberg, the Workshop chair, has picked an outstanding team of
instructors in financial cryptography and internet financial system security
to teach the courses in this workshop. The Workshop will consist of 40 hours
of intensive instruction and lab time over 5 days. Students will have access
to Internet-connected workstations.

Who Should Attend

The Workshop is intended for senior IS managers and technical professionals
who want to get completely up to speed on the design, development, and
implementation of financial cryptography systems, the core technology of
internet commerce. After the workshop, senior managers will have a hands-on
understanding the strengths and liabilities of currently available financial
cryptography and internet transaction security software and hardware, and
thus be able to make better asset allocation decisions in this area of
explosive technology growth. Senior technical professionals with strong IS
experience will be able to implement those technologies and to pass on what
they've learned to their clients and colleagues when they return home.

The Workshop will be held in a casual but intensive atmosphere at the very
cutting edge of financial technology on the internet. Someone has likened
the experience to a financial cryptography bootcamp. At the end, Workshop
attendees should be utterly conversant in cryptography as it applies to
finance. Workshop participants will not only know what everyone else is
doing now in internet commerce, but, more important, because they understand
the implications of strong financial cryptography on ubiquitous public
networks, they will be able to know what to do *next*.

The Workshop Leader

Ian Goldberg is a Ph.D. student in security and cryptography at the
University of California, Berkeley. He was the first winner of RSA Data
Security Inc.'s Secret-Key Challenge, breaking a 40-bit cipher in just 3.5
hours. In late 1995, he discovered what became a much-publicized flaw in
Netscape's implementation of SSL. He is a recognized expert in electronic
payment systems, and in DigiCash's ecash digital bearer certificate protocol
in particular. He has produced several ecash clients for Unix and Windows,
as well as an ecash module for the Stronghold web server, which has extended
the existing ecash system for better security, privacy, and ease-of-use.

The Principal Instructors

Gary Howland has spent the last four years with several companies that are
primarily working with secure electronic commerce (including Digicash),
where he has been involved with the design and development of secure payment
protocols, and the application of these protocols to such tasks as
electronic cash, bond trading, loyalty systems, and online gambling. He is
also responsible for the development of the a freely available cryptographic
library for java and perl.

John Kelsey is an experienced cryptographer, cryptanalyst, and programmer
who has designed several algorithms and protocols. He pioneered research on
secure random number generators, differential related-key cryptanalysis on
block ciphers, and the chosen-protocol attack against cryptographic
protocols. His research has been presented at several international
conferences, and he has broken many proposed commercial cryptographic
algorithm, protocol, and system designs. Kelsey has a degree in Computer
Science and Economics from the University of Missouri Columbia.

Adam Shostack is Director of Technology for Netect, Inc, a Boston based
startup building state of the art server security management applications.
He has extensive background in designing, implementing and testing secure
systems for clients in the medical, computer, and financial industries. His
recent public work includes 'Apparent Weaknesses in the Security Dynamics
Client Server Protocol,' 'Source Code Review Guidelines,' and comparisons of
freely available cryptographic libraries.

Workshop Topics

   * Security on the Internet
        o Internet Protocols: IP, TCP, UDP
        o Higher-level Protocols: Telnet, FTP, HTTP, SSL
        o Solid Foundations for Cryptographic Systems
        o A History of Internet Attacks
        o Building Internet Firewalls
        o Building a Bastion Host
        o Turning your Bastion Host into a Web Server
        o Non-internet Internet Security
   * Cryptography
        o The Need for Cryptography
        o History of Cryptography
        o Classical Methods
        o Modern Methods
        o Private and Public Key Cryptography
        o Authentication vs. Security
        o Certification and Public Key Infrastructures
        o Cryptographic Protocols
        o Engineering a Cryptographically Secure System
        o Why Cryptography is Harder than it Looks
        o Security Through Obscurity and How to Recognize Snake Oil
   * Internet Payment Systems
        o Payment models: coin-based, cheque-based, account-based
        o Security Issues
        o Privacy and Anonymity Issues
        o Smartcards vs. Software
        o Existing Payment Schemes
             + credit cards
             + First Virtual
             + CyberCash
             + DigiCash
        o Forthcoming Payment Schemes
             + SET
             + Mondex
             + Millicent
             + micropayments
   * Setting Up an ecash-Enabled Web Server
        o Setting up the Web Server
        o Signing up for ecash
        o Installing the ecash Module
        o Setting Prices
        o Logging
        o Advanced Methods
             + ecashiers
             + moneychangers

The price of the workshop is $5,000 U.S. You can pay for your FC98 workshop
ticket with Visa or MasterCard, with ecash, or with any of a number of other
internet commerce payment protocols, at the regstriation site:
. Please register and make your plane and hotel
reservations as soon as possible; workshop space is extremely limited.

The workshop price includes meals (but not lodging) at the InterIsland Hotel
and lab space, plus the delivery and installation of hardware, network
access, internet commerce software, all to a location like Anguilla. And, of
course, 40 hours of instruction and structured lab activity. We have priced
the workshop to be competitive with other comprehensive business and
professional technology workshops of similar total session length.

In addition, the first ten FC98 workshop participants will receive a 50%
reduction in their FC98 Conference and Exhibition fee, for a savings of $500
off the $1,000 conference admission.

You can register, and pay for, your workshop ticket at .

Air Transportation and Hotels

Air travel to Anguilla is typically done through San Juan or St.
Maarten/Martin. There are several non-stop flights a day from various US and
European locations. Connection through to Anguilla can be made through
American Eagle, or through LIAT, or in the case of St. Maarten, with a short
ferry ride to Anguilla. See your travel agent for details.

Anguilla's runway is 3600 feet, with a displaced threshold of 600 feet, and
can accomodate business jets. Obviously, you should talk to your aviation
staff for details about your own aircraft's capabilities in this regard.

Anguilla import duties are not imposed on hardware or software which will
leave the island again, so, as long as you take it with you when you leave,
you won't pay import duties.

Please Note: Your FC98 Workshop fee only covers meals at the InterIsland
Hotel. The InterIsland is actually a small guesthouse attached to a large
conference facility, and so rooms there are in short supply. Fortunately,
there are lots of small hotels and guesthouses nearby. For more information
on these hotels, please see  for more information.

Other hotels on Anguilla range from spartan to luxurious, all within easy
walking or driving distance of the Workshop at the InterIsland. More
information about Anguillan hotels can be obtained from your travel agent,
or at .

Registration and Information for Other FC98 Events

To register and pay for your ticket to the FC98 conference itself, see:


For information the selection of papers for the FC98 conference see:


If you're interested in Exhibition space, please contact Blanc Weber:


If you're interested in sponsoring FC98, also contact Blanc Weber:


Financial Cryptography '98 is held in cooperation with the International
Association for Cryptologic Research. The conference proceedings will be
published by Springer Verlag in their Lecture Notes in Computer Science
(LNCS) series.

The FC98 Organizing Committee:

   * Vince Cate and Bob Hettinga, General Chairs
   * Ray Hirschfeld, Conference Chair
   * Matt Franklin, Conference Co-Chair
   * Ian Goldberg, Workshop Chair
   * Blanc Weber, Exhibit and Sponsorship Manager

And our sponsors...

   * RSA Data Security Inc. 
   * C2NET, Inc. 
   * Hansa Bank & Trust Company Limited, Anguilla 
   * Sicherheit und Privat- International Bank
   * Offshore Information Services 
   * e$ 

--- end forwarded text



-----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/
Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: 






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mark Rogaski 
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 10:06:00 +0800
To: jinn@inetnebr.com
Subject: Re: Driver Licenses
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199802100200.VAA03490@deathstar.jabberwock.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

An entity claiming to be D'jinnie wrote:

: 
: How exactly can they require for the DL to be magnetized if only a few
: states do that? My NE license is just a piece of photographed paper
: encased in plastic. The only thing that "protects" it from forgery is a
: "Don't Drink and drive" and "buckle up Nebraska" silvery warnings that can
: be seen under certain angles. I don't see them changing it anytime
: soon...thank gods for slow ppl ;) So...seems like there can and will be a
: lawsuit against such practices.
: 

Nice to see D'Jinn jumping in ...

Here in the Peoples Republik ov NJ, the DL's have no magstrips.  But, 
being that it is NJ, they're probably not far away.  An interesting point
is that, when I moved (intrastate), the MVS sent a decal with the new
address to stick on the back.  No re-issue necessary, which is good, since
most bars/liquor stores will not accept licenses marked DUP.  But, they
will accept passports.

Also interesting is that PA has recently (within the past 2-4 years) been
issuing DL's with the driver's SSN.

Mark

- -- 
[] Mark Rogaski                   "That which does not kill me
[] wendigo@pobox.com                 only makes me stranger."
[]
[]      finger wendigo@deathstar.jabberwock.org for PGP key
[] anti spambot: postmaster@localhost abuse@localhost uce@ftc.gov

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0
Charset: noconv

iQEVAwUBNN+01XzbrFts6CmBAQFkyAf/ZVF3rpjdjTLYQNJ9K6PO/B3HRovlKgba
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=xMsm
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Markus Kuhn 
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 05:26:56 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com
Subject: Re: TEMPEST
In-Reply-To: <199802091735.LAA21910@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate wrote on 1998-02-09 17:35 UTC:
> This is the hardest since the actual modulation of the e-beam is done via a
> screen grid (who said tube theory was out of date?) and that signal is quite
> small and generaly has a cardoid emission pattern aligned axialy along the
> central axis of the CRT tube.

Things are somewhat more complicated and I am not convinced that
the e-beam is the primary source of radiation. Your claim that
the Tempest radiation is modulated by the screen grid does not agree with
my practical experience: All signals I get are close to harmonics of
the dot clock and not of the screen grid rate. In addition, the
Tempest monitor cannot distinguish between an all-black and an all-white
image, which it should in the case of a screen-grid caused modulation.
If there is indeed a screen-grid modulation, then it is *much* weaker
than any modulation that you get by software dithering.

Monitors are pretty strange antennas: For instance, my monitor still
radiates quite well (although noticeably weaker) if I switch its power
supply off. Just the passive resonance of the chassis gives a clear
signal in around a meter radius with a simple untuned dipole antenna.
Switching off a monitor alone does not protect you from eavesdropping
a VDU signal, especially if the signal is not just text but a pattern
optimized for reception.

After I unplug the VGA cable however, I can't pick up any signal with
our Tempest receiver unless I bring the antenna almost in contact with
the cable or connector. The closed PC chassis also appears to be no very
big source of VDU emanations, certainly much below the levels that
our receiver can detect.

Markus

-- 
Markus G. Kuhn, Security Group, Computer Lab, Cambridge University, UK
email: mkuhn at acm.org,  home page: 






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 10:20:48 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: The Wit and Wisdom of Tim May
Message-ID: <0084d7fee26e9320dae1eb7da281a57b@anon.efga.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain






















From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Frantz 
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 14:32:17 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: How to TEMPEST for less
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>From my archives:

----------------------------------------
Preventing Electromagnetic Eavesdropping


---------
NOTE: Even though the author of this document uses the term "TEMPEST" at
      various points, he certifies that his text consists of general
      concepts to reduce electromagnetic emissions, and was not based on any
      actual TEMPEST specifications or data.  Further questions on this topic
      should be directed to the author, "grady@netcom.com".

                                   -- PRIVACY Forum Moderator
---------


                                Abstract

Eavesdropping on personal computers is not limited to looking over the
shoulder of the operator or physically tapping in to an Ethernet cable.
U.S. Government standards relating to the prevention of information capture
via the emission of electromagnetic radiation from computers and peripherals
are known as TEMPEST.  However, actual TEMPEST specifications are classified.

TEMPEST aside, there are inexpensive and easily applied means for
individuals to minimize unintentional emissions from equipment.  My document
"Preventing Electromagnetic Eavesdropping," discusses these techniques.

Grady Ward   

---------

Preventing Electromagnetic Eavesdropping

A note discussing the prevention of electromagnetic eavesdropping
of personal computers.

Grady Ward   
public key verification by PK server, finger, or by request

Version 1.0   22 March 93

TEMPEST is the code name for technology related to limiting unwanted
electromagnetic emissions from data processing and related equipment.
Its goal is to limit an opponent's capability to collect information about
the internal data flow of computer equipment. Most information concerning
TEMPEST specifications is classified by the United States Government and
is not available for use by its citizens.

The reason why TEMPEST technology is particularly important for
computers and other data processing equipment is the kinds of signals
components in a computer use to talk to each other ("square waves") and
their clock speeds (measured in megahertz) produce a particularly rich set
of unintentional signals in a wide portion of the electromagnetic spectrum.
Because the spurious emissions occupy so wide a portion of that spectrum,
technologies used to block one portion of the spectrum (as pulling the shades
closed on a window to stop the visible light portion) are not necessarily
effective in another portion.

Unintentional emissions from a computer system can be captured and
processed to reveal information about the target systems from simple
levels of activity to even remotely copying keystrokes or capturing
monitor information. It is speculated that poorly protected systems can
be effectively monitored up to the order of one kilometer from the target
equipment.

This note will examine some practical aspects of reducing the
susceptibility of your personal computer equipment to remote monitoring
using easily-installed, widely available after-market components.


   I

One way of looking at TEMPEST from the lay person's point-of-view is
that it is virtually identical to the problem of preventing electromagnetic
interference ("EMI") by your computer system to others' radios, televisions,
or other consumer electronics. That is, preventing the emission of wide-band
radio "hash" from your computers, cabling, and peripherals both prevents
interference to you and your neighbors television set and limits the useful
signal available to a person surreptitiously monitoring.

Viewing the problem in this light, there are quite a few useful documents
available form the government and elsewhere attacking this problem and
providing a wealth of practical solutions and resources. Very useful for the
lay person are:

Radio Frequency Interference: How to Find It and Fix It. Ed Hare, KA1CV
and Robert Schetgen, KU7G, editors
The American Radio Relay League, Newington , CT
ISBN 0-87259-375-4  (c) 1991, second printing 1992

Federal Communications Commission Interference Handbook
(1991)
FCC Consumers Assistance Branch
Gettysburg, PA  17326
717-337-1212
and
MIL-STD-188-124B in preparation
(includes information on military shielding of tactical
communications systems)
Superintendent of Documents
US Government Printing Office
Washington, DC  20402
202-783-3238

Information on shielding a particular piece of consumer
electronic equipment may be available from the:

Electronic Industries Association (EIA)
2001 Pennsylvania Ave NW
Washington, DC  20006


Preventing unintended electromagnetic emissions is a relative term.
It is not feasible to reduce to zero all unintended emissions. My personal
goal, for example, might be to reduce the amount and quality of spurious
emission until the monitoring van a kilometer away would have to be in my
front yard before it could effectively eavesdrop on my computer. Apartment
dwellers with unknown neighbors only inches away (through a wall) might
want to even more carefully adopt as many of the following suggestions as
possible since signal available for detection decreases as approximately the
inverse square of the distance from the monitoring equipment to your computer.


   II
   Start with computer equipment that meets modern standards for emission.

In the United States, the "quietest" standard for computers and peripherals
is known as the "class B" level. (Class A level is a less stringent standard
for computers to be use in a business environment.).

You want to verify that all computers and peripherals you use meet the class
B standard which permits only one-tenth the power of spurious emissions than
the class A standard. If you already own computer equipment with an FCC ID,
you can find out which standard applies. Contact the FCC Consumers Assistance
Branch at 1-717-337-1212 for details in accessing their database.

Once you own good equipment, follow the manufacturer's recommendations for
preserving the shielding integrity of the system. Don't operated the system
with the cover off and keep "slot covers" in the back of the computer in
place.


   III
   Use only shielded cable for all system interconnections.

A shielded cable surrounds the core of control wires with a metal braid or
foil to keep signals confined to that core. In the late seventies it was common
to use unshielded cable such as "ribbon" cable to connect the computer with,
say, a diskette drive. Unshielded cable acts just like an antenna for signals
generated by your computer and peripherals. Most computer manufacturer
supply shielded cable for use with their computers in order to meet FCC
standards. Cables bought from third-parties are an unknown and should be
avoided (unless you are willing to take one apart to see for yourself!)

Try to avoid a "rat's nest" of wire and cabling behind your equipment and
by keeping all cables as short as possible. You want to reduced the length of
unintended antennas and to more easily predict the likely paths of electric
and magnetic coupling from cable to cable so that it can be more effectively
filtered.


   IV
   Block radiation from the power cord(s) into the house wiring.

Most computers have an EMI filter built into their body where the AC
line cord enters the power supply. This filter is generally insufficient to
prevent substantial re-radiation of EMI voltages back into the power wiring
of your house and neighborhood. To reduce the power retransmitted down
the AC power cords of your equipment, plug them in to special EMI filters
that are in turn plugged into the wall socket. I use a model 475-3
overvoltage and EMI filter manufactured by

Industrial Communication Engineers, Ltd.
P.O. Box 18495
Indianapolis, IN  46218-0495
1-800-ICE-COMM
ask for their package of free information sheets

(AC and other filters mentioned in this note are available from a wide
variety of sources including, for example, Radio Shack. I am enthusiastic
about ICE because of the "over-designed" quality of their equipment.
Standard disclaimers apply.)

This particular filter from ICE is specified to reduce retransmission of
EMI by a factor of at least 1000 in its high-frequency design range. Although
ideally every computer component using an AC line cord ought to be filtered,
it is especially important for the monitor and computer CPU to be filtered in
this manner as the most useful information available to opponents is believed
to come from these sources.


   V
   Block retransmitted information from entering your fax/modem or
   telephone line.

Telephone line is generally very poorly shielded. EMI  from your computer
can be retransmitted directly into the phone line through your modem or can
be unintentionally picked up by the magnetic portion of the EMI spectrum
through magnetic induction from power supplies or the yoke of your cathode
ray tube "CRT" monitor.

To prevent direct retransmission, EMI filters are specifically designed for
modular telephone jacks to mount at the telephone or modem, and for
mounting directly at the service entrance to the house.

Sources of well-designed telephone-line filter products include ICE
(address above) and

K-COM
Box 82
Randolph, OH  44265
216-325-2110

Your phone company or telephone manufacturer may be able to supply
you with free modular filters, although the design frequencies of these
filters may not be high enough to be effective through much of the EMI
spectrum of interest. Keep telephone lines away from power supplies of
computers or peripherals and the rear of CRTs:  the magnetic field often
associated with those device can inductively transfer to unshielded lines
just as if the telephone line were directly electrically connected to them.
Since this kind of coupling decreases rapidly with distance, this kind of
magnetic induction can be virtually eliminated by keeping as much distance
(several feet or more) as possible between the power supply/monitor yoke
and cabling.


   VI
   Use ferrite toroids and split beads to prevent EMI from escaping on
   the surface of your cables.

Ferrites are magnetic materials that,  for certain ranges of EMI
frequencies, attenuate the EMI by causing it to spend itself in heat in
the material rather than continuing down the cable. They can be applied
without cutting the cable by snapping together a "split bead" form over
a thick cable such as a power cord or by threading  thinner cable such as
telephone several times around the donut-shaped ferrite form. Every cable
leaving your monitor, computer, mouse, keyboard, and other computer
peripherals should have at least one ferrite core attentuator. Don't forget
the telephone lines from your fax, modem, telephone or the unshielded DC
power cord to your modem. Ferrites are applied as close to the EMI emitting
device as possible so as to afford the least amount of cable that can act as
an antenna for the EMI.


Good sources for ferrite split beads and toroids include

Amidon Associates, Inc.
P.O. Box 956
Torrance, CA  90508
310-763-5770
(ask for their free information sheet)

Palomar Engineers
P.O. Box 462222
Escondido, CA  92046
619-747-3343
(ask for their free RFI information sheet)

and Radio Shack.


   VII
   Other practical remedies.

Other remedies that are somewhat more difficult to correctly apply
include providing a good EMI "ground" shield for your computer equipment
and other more intrusive filters such as bypass capacitor filters.

You probably ought not to think about adding bypass capacitors unless you
are familiar with electronic circuits and digital design. While quite
effective, added improperly to the motherboard or cabling of a computer they
can "smooth out" the square wave digital waveform -- perhaps to the extent
that signals are interpreted erroneously causing mysterious "crashes" of
your system. In other cases, bypass capacitors can cause unwanted parasitic
oscillation on the transistorized output drivers of certain circuits which
could damage or destroy those circuits in the computer or peripherals. Also,
unlike ferrite toroids, adding capacitors requires actually physically
splicing them in or soldering them into circuits. This opens up the
possibility of electric shock, damage to other electronic components or
voiding the warranty on the computer equipment.

A good EMI ground is difficult to achieve. Unlike an electrical safety
ground, such as the third wire in a three-wire AC power system, the EMI
ground must operate effectively over a much wider part of the EMI spectrum.
This effectiveness is related to a quality known as electrical impedance. You
desire to reduce the impedance to as low a value as possible over the entire
range of EMI frequencies.

Unlike the AC safety ground, important factors in achieving low impedance
include having as short a lead from the equipment to a good EMI earth ground
as possible (must be just a few feet); the gauge of the connecting lead (the
best EMI ground lead is not wire but woven grounding "strap" or wide copper
flashing sheets; and the physical coupling of the EMI into the actual earth
ground. An 8 ft. copper-plated ground may be fine for AC safety ground, but
may present appreciable impedance resistance to an EMI voltage. Much better
would be to connect a network of six to eight copper pipes arranged in a
six-foot diameter circle driven in a foot or two into the ground,
electrically bonded together with heavy ground strap and connected to the
equipment to be grounded via a short (at most, several feet), heavy (at
least 3/4-1" wide) ground strap.

If you can achieve a good EMI ground, then further shielding possibilities
open up for you such as surrounding your monitor and computer equipment in a
wire-screen Faraday cage. You want to use mesh rather than solid sheet
because you must preserve the free flow of cooling air to your equipment.
Buy aluminum (not nylon) screen netting at your local hardware store. This
netting typically comes in rolls 36" wide by several feet long. Completely
surround your equipment you want to reduce the EMI being careful to make
good electrical bonds between the different panels of netting and your good
earth ground. I use stainless steel nuts, bolts, and lock washers along with
special non-oxidizing electrical paste (available from Electrical
contractors supply houses or from ICE) to secure my ground strapping to my
net "cages".  A good Faraday cage will add several orders of magnitude of
EMI attenuation to your system.


   VIII
   Checking the effectiveness of your work.

It is easy to get a general feeling about the effectiveness of your EMI
shielding work with an ordinary portable AM radio. Bring it very close to
the body of your computer and its cables in turn. Ideally, you should not
hear an increased level of static. If you do hear relatively more at one
cable than at another, apply more ferrite split beads or obtain better
shielded cable for this component. The practice of determining what kind of
operating system code is executing by listening to a nearby AM radio is
definitely obsolete for an well-shielded EMI-proof system!

To get an idea of the power and scope of your magnetic field emissions, an
ordinary compass is quite sensitive in detecting fields. Bring a compass
within a few inches of the back of your monitor and see whether it is
deflected. Notice that the amount of deflection decreases rapidly with
distance. You want to keep cables away from magnetic sources about as far as
required not to see an appreciable deflection on the compass.


   VIIII
   Summary

If you start with good, shielded equipment that has passed the FCC level B
emission standard then you are off to a great start. You may even be able to
do even better with stock OEM equipment by specifying "low-emission"
monitors that have recently come on the market in response to consumer fears
of extremely low frequency ("ELF") and other electromagnetic radiation.
Consistently use shielded cables, apply filtering and ferrite toroids to all
cabling entering or leaving your computer equipment. Finally, consider a
good EMI ground and Faraday cages. Beyond this there are even more effective
means of confining the electrical and magnetic components of your system
through the use of copper foil adhesive tapes, conductive paint sprays, "mu
metal" and other less common components.


Copyright (c) 1993 by Grady Ward. All Rights Reserved.
Permission is granted for free electronic distribution.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz       | Market research shows the  | Periwinkle -- Consulting
(408)356-8506     | average customer has one   | 16345 Englewood Ave.
frantz@netcom.com | teat and one testicle.     | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 12:24:01 +0800
To: Markus.Kuhn@cl.cam.ac.uk
Subject: attracting funding for tempest? (Re: SOFT TEMPEST)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199802092134.VAA00795@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




In an interesting discussion on software tempest measures,

Markus Kuhn  writes:
> One more remark: This was so far unfunded research initiated by
> our private interest in the subject of compromising radiation. In
> this field, the available research literature is very close to zero
> (there are the van-Eck/Moeller/Smulder papers and that's it basically), and
> all the real knowledge is tightly guarded by the military and diplomatic
> community. We hope that developing commercial applications for
> compromising radiation will open the way to non-military funding
> and open research in this field.

People who are interested in communications and data security to the
extent of arguing about the difference in security offered by 56 bit
keys as compared to 128 bit keys ought to be worried about RF
information leaks and tempest shielding.

Perhaps similar justification can be used for the relevance of tempest
research -- it is just the hardware half of assuring confidentiality
of information.  There should be a reasonably large supply of
commercial funding candidates even given the 90 : 10 ratio of business
interest in availability over confidentiality.

> Copyright protections seems to be an interesting application.

Personally I view technology to assist copyright piracy a more
interesting research goal!  Candidate technologies include high
bandwidth eternity services, anonymous remailers with sufficient
bandwidth, pipenets, DC-nets, free software movements, countries
with modern intellectual ownership rules like Argentina*, and 
undermining the power of the state so that state provided copyright
enforcement susidies disappear.

(* See my previous post: reposted news report "ARGENTINE SUPREME COURT
RULES SOFTWARE PIRACY LEGAL").

I am not sure I want to see my computer narcing out over RF
frequencies what software is installed -- once enabled for corporates
there is the risk it will be used against individuals.  This sounds
about as (un)desirable as CPUs capable of running encrypted
instruction streams, with per CPU keys loaded at manufacture enabling
software to be purchased for your CPU only (and hence disempowering 
users who will thus be unable to even disassemble such code prior to
running), or smart cards as modernized next generation dongles.

Adam





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 23:10:24 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: TEMPEST (fwd)
Message-ID: <199802100340.VAA27056@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Subject: Re: TEMPEST 
> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 01:45:26 +0000
> From: Markus Kuhn 

> > If your getting your signal off the harmonics you're doing it the hard way.
> > Go back and re-read your texts on Fourier Transforms and then do a
> > power-spectrum analysis on the signals to the tube; what you will find is
> > that the primary frequencies get the majority of the signal (eg 1st harmonic
> > of a square wave (ie a dot clock) only gets, at best, 1/3 of the energy of
> > the primary).
> 
> But this is not necessarily, where the the monitor resonates nicely.
> Van Eck has reported very similar results in his paper: His VDU
> had a dot clock of 11 MHz and he got nice resonance peaks near 125
> and 210 MHz.

11MHz base frequency won't produce a clean ring at 125MHz or 210MHz, they're
not a whole number multiple of the base. How is this accounted for? What did
he calculate the Q at? At what range was he picking up these harmonics as
well as the base? The lower harmonic implies a 4MHz beat and the higher a
1MHz beat, how did he account for these signals? Personaly I would be more
inclined to suspect the information was riding on the beats. He didn't
happen to measure the frequencies to 3 decimal places did he? Since the
components are most likely 20%, 10% at best. This would indicate that his
base clock was slewing from around 10MHz to around 12MHz, this would explain
the 1MHz and 4MHz beats anyway; sub-harmonics due to excessive slew-rate.

If he was seeing ringing it had to be very low power because such off-integer
resonances only occur in low-Q tuned circuits and that implies a very quick
decay constant because the majority of energy is being dissipated in heat.
So, in effect, Van Eck is claiming that the propogation attenuation of the
125 and 210 harmonics is lower than for the fundamental frequencies in a
low-Q tuned circuit? Or is he claiming the emitted energy of the harmonics
was higher than the base drive signal?

> If you have only a van Eck style receiver, yes. But as soon as you record
> the reception over some time and observe the images phases to drift only
> slightly against each other, you might be able to separate them using
> similar processing techniques as used in computer tomography.

As I alluded to with the comment I made about integrating the received
signals. The easiest way to do this sort of stuff with a small budget is
with a flying capacitor integrator.


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |       The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate,       |
   |       but the desire to edit somebody elses words.                 |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                  Sign in Ed Barsis' office         |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 23:09:47 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: SOFT TEMPEST (fwd)
Message-ID: <199802100346.VAA27061@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 03:03:53 +0100 (CET)
> From: Lucky Green 
> Subject: Re: SOFT TEMPEST (fwd)

> I don't know about displaying the screens of several thousands of PC's at
> a site, but you can easily select any given screen of several dozens of
> PC's. Using $100 worth in equipment plus a  [>>$100] quality frequency
> generator.

What is the $100 worth of equipment?

> At HIP'97, I watched a van Eck demonstration given by a German professor.
> Using cheap analog equipment and one of the better HP frequency

What equipment, not necessarily the manufacturer or model but the functional
description? Do you remember the configuration?

> I am told screen images can be captured up to 600 meters along the power
> line.

As long as there isn't a transformer in there. The impedance shift will
strongly attenuate the signal. This same limitation effects X-10 controllers.
If the PC's are plugged into a UPS (which they should be in a business)
you're SOL here.


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |       The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate,       |
   |       but the desire to edit somebody elses words.                 |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                  Sign in Ed Barsis' office         |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 20:36:49 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: the best justice money can buy --Lessig (fwd)
Message-ID: <199802100349.VAA27066@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Oops...

Forwarded message:

> From: Jim Choate 
> Subject: Re: the best justice money can buy --Lessig (fwd)
> Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 18:54:32 -0600 (CST)

> And in the long run non-copyrighted software has a significant market
                          ^^^^^^^^^^^
                          copy-protected

> advantage. It's smaller, it is more stable, and people don't get as pissed
> off when they want to make their backups.

Sorry.


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |       The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate,       |
   |       but the desire to edit somebody elses words.                 |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                  Sign in Ed Barsis' office         |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Eric Cordian 
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 12:12:27 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: The Latest Horiuchi Antics
Message-ID: <199802100403.WAA29574@wire.insync.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Now that the Feds have gotten the Horuichi case moved out of state
jurisdiction into a federal courtroom, they want their federal judge
to dismiss all charges.
 
-----
 
BOISE, Idaho (AP) The federal government on Monday sought the
dismissal of a state involuntary manslaughter charge against the FBI
sharpshooter who killed Randy Weaver's wife at Ruby Ridge six years
ago.
 
The Justice Department petition filed in federal court argued that Lon
Horiuchi was protected by the Supremacy Clause of the U.S.
Constitution so he cannot be subject to state prosecution for actions
in the line of duty.
 
"It is imperative that federal officials be protected from state
prosecution in such circumstances because without the protection
ensured by the Supremacy Clause, rigorous enforcement of federal law
would be severely chilled to the detriment of the general public
good,'' the petition said.
 
Horiuchi was among dozens of federal agents who surrounded Weaver's
remote mountain cabin in the Idaho Panhandle in August 1992 in an
attempt to arrest Weaver on an illegal weapons charge.
 
Weaver's 14-year-old son, Sam, and deputy U.S. Marshal William Degan
of Quincy, Mass., were killed in the gunfight that touched off the
11-day siege. Vicki Weaver was fatally shot by Horiuchi on the second
day.
 
Both Randy Weaver and family associate Kevin Harris were acquitted in
1993 of federal murder and other charges in connection with the siege.
Weaver was also acquitted of the weapons charge that had prompted
federal agents to confront him.
 
Last August, five years to the day after Mrs. Weaver's death,
prosecutor Denise Woodbury filed the involuntary manslaughter charge
against Horiuchi. The Justice Department had earlier declined to
prosecute Horiuchi.
 
The prosecutor also charged Harris with murder in Degan's death, but
that charge was dismissed on a double-jeopardy ruling.
 
On Jan. 7, U.S. District Judge Edward Lodge moved the case to federal
court. Horiuchi pleaded innocent. His trial is scheduled for March 10.

-- 
Eric Michael Cordian 0+
O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division
"Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"
 
 "America is like a corrupt hard drive.  It's full of virii and huge
  inefficient programs written in Java and Visual Basic.  Whan a hard
  drive gets to the point that it is as screwed up as America is, it's 
  beyond repair.  America needs to be formatted."





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 06:51:22 +0800
To: tcmay@got.net
Subject: Re: time to learn chinese?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199802092224.WAA00886@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Tim May  writes:
> Oh, and on the specific prediction...I have my doubts about even the per
> capita numbers rising as fast as some think. It's still a Communist system,
> with periodic crackdowns on anyone or any entity who is perceived to be
> doing "too well."

The interesting aspect of her speculation was on the possibility of an
economic and political process of change which would result in a
transition directly from communism to a free market based political
system, by-passing democracy and socialism.  She viewed democracy and
socialism as mistakes made by the west to be learned from and avoided.

Communist regimes typically include a significant element of central
planning which introduces economic inefficiencies, yes, and loss of
freedom of choice, etc.

Socialist democracies have much in common with communist regimes in
this respect: elements of centralised control, restrictions of choices
(the nanny state, huge welfare systems, 50%+ taxation) large
government restrictions on free market operation.

Both systems suck, but currently the lesser of two evils by a large
margin is living in a socialist democracy because of the wider
freedoms as compared to the lack of freedoms in Communist countries
such as China, and because of it being worth putting up with the nanny
state and 50%+ tax rates as compared to the economic instability and
organised crime problems in Russia, and previous Russian provinces now
split off back in to small countries.

The interesting question is the how these two evolving political and
economic systems will change over time.

Her speculation was that a previously communist system evolving
towards becoming a pure market system might move towards this goal
more rapidly than a rampantly socialist democracy would move towards
the same.  She also considered the different cultural work ethic
signficant: Chinese people on the whole work harder, and re-invest
more of per capita income.

> Anyway, China does not as yet have even a single reasonably state of
> the art chip making plant in its entire country. Given the
> timescales and learning curves involved, it seems unlikely they'll
> be a high tech leader in little over 10 years.

Singapore, Taiwan, and Japan produce sizeable quantities of electronic
devices, consumer electronics items, cars, etc.  In fact I understood
them to out compete western manufacturing in many instances.

They may not always be at the leading edge of R&D, but they do produce
a lot, much of it quality equipment, and we (westerners) buy more
consumer electronics, and cars produced by such countries now.
Personally I would buy a Toyota over a Ford anyday :-)

China might be viewed as larger version of Singapore a few decades ago
perhaps.  Enterprise zones (or same rules for the whole country) with
0% taxation, unrestrictive planning rules etc should help attract
outside investment from high tech companies, if political stability
was viewed as good enough.

Probably you are right on the optimism of the time scales of the
interviewed analyst.

Adam





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Miller 
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 11:32:20 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Drivers Licenses
Message-ID: <34DFC8FA.1CECCE12@avana.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Anonymous (remailer@htp.org) wrote:

> My question is, how much information can be stored on these strips?

The data that's stored on most of the cards (credit cards, hotel keys,
gym cards, etc.) are encoded with 5 bits per character.  I believe
that this is also known as Baudot encoding.  You can store somewhere
around 80 characters per track on "normal" cards, and most cards
contain a 1/2" magnetic stripe that can hold 4, 1/8" tracks.  So, I
would estimate that your drivers license would hold a total of about
320 characters on all four tracks with standard encoding techniques.

If you are interested in rendering only individual tracks unreadable,
it can be done.  I have done it by scratching off the magnetic
material as you described.  Of course, all tracks run horizontally
across the card, with track 1 being the track closest to the edge
of the card.  So, if you wanted to destroy track 1, you could scrape
off the 1/8" of the strip closest to the long edge of the license.

Have fun.

--David Miller

middle  rival
devil rim lad





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 13:23:53 +0800
To: cypherpunks@sirius.infonex.com
Subject: Re: 145 Million
Message-ID: <07496f2732ef978d405246b0043c4035@anon.efga.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Someone wrote:

>>If someone with an 8th grade >>education can make a personal 
>>fortune of $145 million in network >>marketing with herbs, 

And someone else replied:
>that's a shitload of weed!  it would >be quite risky too trying  to 
>move over 45,000 lbs of quality 
>weed.

All I can say is that if you are paying
$145 for 45K pounds, you are getting 
ripped off no matter if it is the
kindest Norhtern Lights you ever
smoked.

That is  $18,777.78+ a pound.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 15:24:49 +0800
To: "WebWarrior3@InfoWar.Com>
Subject: RE: Cyber 'Nannys"
In-Reply-To: <34DF87FE.611AA4EF@InfoWar.Com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 2:49 PM -0800 2/9/98, WebWarrior3@InfoWar.Com wrote:

>While I do not disagree that these companies should be able to market
>their products, I wholeheartedly disagree with the fact that often their
>customers (the adults who bought the software or subscribed to he
>'service') are not allowed to have a list of what is actually blocked,

So you wholeheartedly disagree that they are not giving you a list of what
is blocked...so go use another service.

I don't mean to be flippant. At issue here is a very real issue of free
choice and contracts. Customers cannot "demand" a list of criteria for
blocked sites any more than customers can demand a list of the selection
criteria a bookstore uses, or a magazine editor uses, and so on.

I make fun of Cyber Sitter and other Net.Nannies, but there's no role for
"disagreeing with the fact" (whatever that infelicitous expression may
mean) that they usually don't publicize their criteria.

If you can figure out their criteria, great. Brock Meeks and Declan M.
figured out some criteria a while back in an interesting article. But make
sure that your "disagreeing with the fact" is not translated into calling
for disclosure laws. That way lies statism.

--Tim May


Just Say No to "Big Brother Inside"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^3,021,377   | black markets, collapse of governments.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Alan Tu 
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 12:56:18 +0800
To: Cypher Punks Mailing List 
Subject: Algorithms used in PGP 5.x; Relative strength of Blowfish
Message-ID: <199802092337_MC2-32B1-60F5@compuserve.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



What are the algorithms used in PGP 5.x, symetric ones, that is?  For
anything besides 3DES and IDEA, what are their relative strengths to 3DES
or IDEA?  Could someone tell me what their key lengths are?

Also, what's the relative strength of Blowfish to 3DES or IDEA?  Its key
length is variable, as I recall.  Could someone tell me the range?

--Alan
  





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Alan Tu 
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 13:03:02 +0800
To: Bill Stewart 
Subject: Re: What's the latest in factoring?
Message-ID: <199802092337_MC2-32B1-60F6@compuserve.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Dear Bill,

Sorry, but you may see this message twice.

Bill Stewart wrote:

>>>>>
There are two countervailing arguments about very long keys;
one is that if you understand cryptography well enough to 
evaluate the issue, you'll know you don't need to bother,
but the other is that if you don't understand crypto very well,
maybe you should be overly conservative.
<<<<<

Well, personally, I guess by your def I'm in the second group, since I
didn't know I don't need to bother.

>>>>>
Remember that factoring difficulty is roughly exponential;
adding logn bits about doubles the cracking workload 
(depending on which factoring method is being used).  
Factoring a 1024-bit number is _much_ harder than factoring a 512-bit
number, and factoring a 2048-bit number is well into age-of-the-universe 
difficulty level.  The practical level of factoring right now
is about 512 bits, for either a distributed internet effort or
an NSA internal one;
<<<<<

I kind of knew this from a hypothesis, so PGP 5.x is being conservative,
possibly overly so by your definition.  I've seen a screen on a friend's
computer and the default is something like 2048.  By the way, we don't know
about NSA.  They may be able to factor any number, if they have an
algorithm.

>>>>>
in the unlikely event that Moore's law lets
us double processing power 100 times in the next 150 years,
that means a 1500-bit key could be crackable.  So 2048 bits
is certainly more than enough for _your_ lifetime.
Increasing processing power 2**100 times is likely to be tough :-)
After all, features in current microprocessors are on the order
of 100 atoms wide.  And by the time we've developed the level of 
nanotechnology needed to speed up processing that much,
there'll be tiny audio bugs listening to you type your passphrase
into your keyboard and reporting it back to the Central Intelligence
Corporation, or picking up the electromagnetic fields from your
direct neural interface, so the crypto strength won't matter much.
<<<<<

I believe in Moore's law, since in 1992-1993 I read an analysis that
Moore's law was true for the last 100 years.  I think its still true today.
 Your last set of thoughts is chilling, isn't it?

But consider this.  People 10, 20, 30 years ago like us are saying that the
government can eavesdrop on their communication in the future, just as you
are saying now.  Look now.  I am very proud that I am part of the e-crypto
revolution (my coined word).  I am helping to slow down NSA.  I hope that,
by the time the tech you hypothesize about is here, we again will have
technology to slow down NSA.

>>>>>
But do you really _need_ to factor the prime number to crack PGP?  No.
Remember that PGP uses the RSA key to encrypt session keys for IDEA,
or for signing MD5 hashes of documents, rather than using it directly.
So you can decrypt the message by cracking IDEA, or forge a message
by finding MD5 collisions.  Cracking IDEA's 128-bit keys was estimated
to be about as hard as factoring a 3100-bit number, though improvements
to factoring technology may make a 4096-bit number as easy as IDEA.
Also, PGP 2.x passphrases are encrypted with IDEA, so if they've
got your secring.pgp and can crack 4096-bit keys, you're toast,
<<<<<

I know this.  The point is that most if not all people know that RSA is the
weak link, not IDEA.  Would you rather start to work on a 1024-bit RSA key
or IDEA passphrase of an enemy?  Obviously the RSA key.  Barring any
mathematical weakness in IDEA, I am not worried about IDEA.  By the way, my
three-year-old info says that IDEA was being mathematicly attacked in many
quarters, civilian and non-civilian alike.  If they was anything, I would
have heard by now, but I still want to ask.  Has any significant
cryptanalysis attack against IDEA been "successful"?

>>>>>
even if your passphase isn't just your dog's name spelled backwards.
Similarly, by the time processing power doubles 100 times making your
1500-bit key insecure, MD5 will be long toasted.  Either way,
there's no need to go beyond 4096-bit keys ever, with old-style PGP.
Even if you're being overly conservative, that's more than enough.
<<<<<

You seem to be suggesting that MD5 will lead to the downfall of all of our
keys.  Let's think about your toasting of MD5.  The worst thing that can
happen to a one-way hash function is that it can go both ways.  So its dead
for signatures.  So let's suppose now that I can take any document and
produce another document with a higher or lower dollar figure in it and
come up with the same hash.  I can do this easily.  But to somehow exploit
MD5 to crack a passphrase it is impossible because you have nothing to
start working with.  You only have an encrypted key, encrypted with an
128-bit IDEA key.

Look, for our lifetimes, I don't see much point in going beyond 4096 bits
either, maybe even 3072.

>>>>>
Newer versions of PGP dump RSA and IDEA for patent reasons, 
but they also offer alternatives to IDEA and MD5 which may be stronger.
(SHA-1 is stronger than MD5, triple-DES requires immense amounts of
storage to reduce it to a strength similar to IDEA, and just being
extensible means you can replace algorithms that are obsolete.)
<<<<<

Triple-DES is not stronger than IDEA, although it is secure for the most
part.  According to Phil Zimmerman, its effective key length is 112 bits to
128 bits for IDEA.  Its also 3 times slower than DES, which is comparably
slow anyway.  Also, to settle this issue once and for all in my mind, the
Win95 version of PGP, what symetric algorithms do you have to choose from?

Does anyone have any comments on the relative strength of Blowfish?  What
about the mathematics of Blowfish?  Has anyone tried to cryptanalyze it
yet?  Also, I apologize for going on like this, I'll post a separate
question on that.

>>>>>
The other side of practical is how much work it takes to use long keys,
and how many people who want to talk to you use them.
The answer to the latter is "Not many" for RSA keys over 2048.
The former is about N**2 for decryption and N**3 for key generation,
and about linear for encryption with short exponents,
so it'll take you 64 times as long (once) to generate the key,
and 16 times as long to decrypt or sign anything, compared to
the far-more-than-strong-enough 2048-bit key, which is already
4 times as hard to use and 8 times as hard to generate as a 1024.
<<<<<

As I said, I have a 2048-bit key in hibernation.  I haven't posted it to a
key server, but a friend who recently got PGP decided to use my public key
ring, and use my 2048-bit key.  There are only two places in which this key
of mine is accessible.  Anyway, I don't see the 4 time slowdown for using
my secret key.  (I have a 133 MHz).  However, the effect is probably true
for slower processors.  I agree that we shouldn't bother with keys above
4096 bits because its not necessary and it takes too long to communicate
with people who have slower processors.

>>>>>
It's not worth the bother, unless you know have a really, really 
special application that needs to remain secret until long after
you've overthrown the government.  On the other hand,
at least the RSA patent will have expired by then :-)
<<<<<

I already addressed this point.

>>>>>
The Diffie-Hellman implementations in PGP 5.x will let you use
key lengths up to 4096, but the speed behaviour is a bit different.
In particular, key generation is much faster, so generating
overkill-length keys isn't as boring.
<<<<<

First of all, Win95 (not my computer) seems slow to me, even if that
person's processor is faster than mine.  And I hear so much disk reading or
writing, no wonder its slow.  Boring?  Win95 cannot make you bored.  Go do
something else, or play a MIDI file.  You can multi-task.

--Alan
  





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Dave Emery 
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 13:11:52 +0800
To: Lucky Green 
Subject: Re: SOFT TEMPEST (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199802092357.RAA25254@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <19980209235936.37986@die.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Tue, Feb 10, 1998 at 03:03:53AM +0100, Lucky Green wrote:
> 
> Now all this was done without the use of a DSP. I can only imagine what
> one could capture after adding a DSP to the setup.

	Miles...
	
	Given static screen images and thousands of repetitions in a few
seconds the processing gain from integration of the signal verus the 
uncorrelated noise over thousands of cycles gets quite interesting. And
add to that the tricks one can do with comb filters and combining
together the correllated energy from several harmonics of the dot clock
one can see that getting signal out from under the trash is easy even at
considerable distances.   It has, in fact, been speculated that the
larger NSA geo and near geosync ELINT/COMINT satellites probably have
the required capability to accomplish this from orbit (with football
field sized antennas this isn't out of the question at all).

	Also the "frequency generator" you talk about needs not be
some extremely expensive HP synthesizer (often of course available for
a few dollars at the local ham radio flea markets in any case), but
simply a good voltage controlled crystal oscillator on the right frequency.
These are $5 parts...
	
-- 
	Dave Emery N1PRE,  die@die.com  DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass. 
PGP fingerprint = 2047/4D7B08D1 DE 6E E1 CC 1F 1D 96 E2  5D 27 BD B0 24 88 C3 18





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 07:21:52 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: E-CDA
Message-ID: <199802092315.AAA02200@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Congressional Record: February 5, 1998 (House)
 
                   ELECTRONIC CAMPAIGN DISCLOSURE ACT

  (Mr. WHITE asked and was given permission to address the House for 1 
minute.)

  Mr. WHITE. Madam Speaker, in March we are going to vote on campaign 
finance reform in this House. It is a very important issue but also a 
very difficult issue, and it is made particularly difficult because 
most of the bills before us are big bills that deal with the whole 
comprehensive issue that we have to talk about.

  I have got one of those bills, and I hope that we can pass one. But 
just in case we cannot, today I am introducing what we might call a 
small bill that will deal at least with some of the problems. This bill 
is called the Electronic Campaign Disclosure Act, and what it does is 
tell the Federal Elections Commission to get into the 21st century.

  It directs the FEC to establish a database on-line to search over the 
Internet for all the information needed about campaign finances in our 
country. Every campaign would have to file within 10 days a report of 
every contribution that it receives and contributors, and PACs would 
also have to file.

  Madam Speaker, sometimes we cannot do it all in one step. The longest 
journey begins with a single step, and I think if we cannot pass a big 
bill a small bill like the one I am introducing today would be a step 
in the right direction.

                          ____________________







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 17:01:22 +0800
To: "Brian B. Riley" 
Subject: Re: Driver Licenses
In-Reply-To: <199802092153.QAA07449@mx01.together.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980210004840.00882c40@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 04:53 PM 2/9/98 -0500, Brian B. Riley wrote:
>  I wonder, though, how long it would go on if some shopkeeper indeed did 
>this? But, is it a crime to try to buy booze or tobacco underage, if you 
>do not try to show fraudulent indentification?

Depends on the state; in many places it's a crime both for the
buyer and the seller.
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 14:55:10 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Washington on the verge of being nuked?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980209174919.007b18a0@otc.net>
Message-ID: <8V9Nke9w165w@bwalk.dm.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



David Honig  writes:

> At 06:34 PM 2/9/98 EST, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote:
> >One can "disrupt" the water supply by just making a credible assertion that
> >it's been poisoned - but it won't kill nearly as many people as actual
> >poison (or virus/bacteria).
> >
>
> Psychops?

Yes, psyops (no ch) - the most venerable field of information warfare.

> That doesn't work when you have sufficient health-orgs and telecomm
> to get the word out that the water's ok.

By the same reasoning, a bomb threat won't get a building evacuated if
the authorities can check whether the bomb is there...

A psychopath like Guy Polis could just call a TV station and claim that
he put some poison in the water supply which would take a few days to
test for.

> Actually, a lot of people drink bottled water here :-) but
> the 10 million kilos of shit excreted by LA every day would
> build up pretty fast.

NYC is one of the few major cities where the tap water is good enough to
drink and actually tastes good.

> Electric power is probably as vunerable as waterways, despite
> conscious efforts to make the grid redundant.  Of course
> both are controlled by computers, as uncle sam is realizing.
> In LA, all it takes to create a looting riot is to cut electricity
> to the city's alarm systems...

One could use brute force and just blow up enough redundant towers...
Or short them with a kite. :-)

> Major freeway intersections are closed down 2-3 times a year in LA
> due to bomb threats, which are usually just threats -no bombs are found.
> You can snarl the roads very easily at the right time of day, since
> the roads' bandwidth is already exceeded and congestion persists after the
> clog is removed.

NYC has pretty good public transporation... I don't think a terrorist can
do a lot by screwing up the traffic.

I recall that there was a bunch of bomb threates at Salomon Brothers last
year, right after Guy Polis was fired from his contractor job.  Do you
suppose the psychotic pedophile did it?

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 02:12:51 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980210005500.00882c40@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 07:05 PM 2/9/98 -0600, Jim Choate wrote:
...
>> an NSA internal one; in the unlikely event that Moore's law lets
>> us double processing power 100 times in the next 150 years,
>> that means a 1500-bit key could be crackable.  So 2048 bits
>> is certainly more than enough for _your_ lifetime.
>
>That depends on what current and near-future medical technology can do
>to extend the lifespan of humans. If your assumption is that most folks
>younger than about 50 will be dead in 75 years I suspect that you're in for
>a nasty surprise. 

That is my assumption, and being wrong would be a highly pleasant surprise.

>The reason I posted those cc:'s regarding such research is
>enough that current estimates of key strength based on human life times need
>to be re-evaluated. 

If Moore's law plus algorithm improvements can give us a 2**150 increase
in processing power over the next 200 years, and I'm around to see it,
I'll be very surprised.  (Or I'll be posthumously surprised, if I'm 
not around.)  On the other hand, if that's true,
we'll be in something like the nanotech singularity, where
eavesdropping will make up for any remaining difficulty in key cracking,
as I'd also discussed.
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 17:06:45 +0800
To: "D'jinnie" 
Subject: Re: Driver Licenses
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980209122020.00889e90@popd.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980210005639.00882c40@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 01:49 AM 2/10/98 -0600, you wrote:
>On Mon, 9 Feb 1998, Bill Stewart wrote:
>: 
>: Yup.  It's really annoying to have to give the California DMV lots of
>: personal information about myself so they can track down deadbeat dads,
>: given that I'm not even a dad, much less a deadbeat dad, and so they
>: can track down Mexicans who want to drive without citizenship papers,
>: and similar presumptions of potential guilt.
>
>You're not required to be a citizen. You're not even required to be a
>permanent resident. All you need is to be here legally for any length of
>time. Some places won't check. Some require SSN cards, which can only be
>issued to ppl who are here legally, regardless of work authorization
>(since we all know SSN go way beyond original purpose ;)

CA has occasionally demanded citizenship papers to get a driver's license,
because a few politicians want to harass the large numbers of Mexicans who 
live here without papers.  They weren't demanding them when I got my
license 4 years ago, because they'd just been hassled in court,
and this time when I renewed the clerk said the main reason the state
mails licenses centrally instead of just printing them at the DMV
is so they can check all the data with the INS.

If you're driving a car here with Sonora plates and you've got a
Mexican license with a Sonora address, the CA cops can't bust you
for it, though they can ask stuff like what you're doing here.
But if you're parking the car on the street for more than 2 months
(it may be 1 month?) with Sonora plates, they can bust you for
not having California plates, even though you can't get them,
and for not having a California license, even though you can't get one.
Just as they can for still having Jersey plates on your car.
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Markus Kuhn 
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 12:18:05 +0800
To: cypherpunks@sirius.infonex.com
Subject: Re: attracting funding for tempest? (Re: SOFT TEMPEST)
In-Reply-To: <199802092134.VAA00795@server.eternity.org>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Adam Back wrote on 1998-02-09 21:34 UTC:
> There should be a reasonably large supply of
> commercial funding candidates even given the 90 : 10 ratio of business
> interest in availability over confidentiality.

Availability is usually based on authenticity, and authenticity is based
on the confidentiality of keying variables, therefore at some level,
everyone interested in computer security should be interested in
research about the hardware aspects of confidentiality.

> > Copyright protections seems to be an interesting application.
> 
> Personally I view technology to assist copyright piracy a more
> interesting research goal!

Come on, copyright piracy is technically trivial today! Little software
is sold with any copyright protection technology, and if, then it is
usually easily broken as the full cleartext machine code is always
available for reverse engineering.

> I am not sure I want to see my computer narcing out over RF
> frequencies what software is installed -- once enabled for corporates
> there is the risk it will be used against individuals.

This concerns only individuals who feel important enough to fear that
any organization might want to spend hundreds of dollars per day
to park a grey van full of state-of-the-art DSP and HF equipment
in front of your home exclusively to observe what you do on your
home machine. Quite unrealistic. Of course, in the future,
when cellular base stations become freely programmable DSP software
radios that can via the network be turned from GSM-BTSs into
Tempest monitoring stations by a minor software update, then the
paranoid's deep desire to be observed could actually be fulfilled
by evil organizations on a very large scale. Stay tuned ...

> This sounds
> about as (un)desirable as CPUs capable of running encrypted
> instruction streams, with per CPU keys loaded at manufacture enabling
> software to be purchased for your CPU only (and hence disempowering 
> users who will thus be unable to even disassemble such code prior to
> running), or smart cards as modernized next generation dongles.

Well, I have been thinking about this one, too, and I am quite sure that
we will see such mechanisms showing up in common desktop processors
within the next few years. Then, copyright piracy will become an
interesting technological challenge and research on attacks will
become orders of magnitude more fascinating than now. See

  http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/trustno1.pdf

for details. I am not sure, whether high-security copy protection
is a really bad idea: It could also mean that strict technical
copyright enforcement like it is possible with cryptoprocessors
will change the market situation favourably: Small startup companies
suddenly become able to sell mass market software at prices in
the range of <10 dollars per copy with only a cheap web server as their
distribution infrastructure. When the success of software marketing
is not any more dependent on the distribution infrastructure that
big players like Microsoft enjoy today (retailers, bundling contracts,
etc.), market success would much more depend on the quality of
product and service than on the control over a distribution
system infrastructure. If the copy protection offered by
cryptoprocessors would allow small companies to compete successfully
with high quality ultra-low price software against Microsoft, then
the old shareware distribution concept might actually start to work.
In addition, the same transistors used for bus encryption can
also be used to keep your entire harddisk encrypted without performance
loss and the encrypted software distribution protects you better
against Trojans, so you'll get increased overall security as a free
side effect.

Markus

-- 
Markus G. Kuhn, Security Group, Computer Lab, Cambridge University, UK
email: mkuhn at acm.org,  home page: 






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "D'jinnie" 
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 15:39:41 +0800
To: Cypherpunks 
Subject: Re: Driver Licenses
In-Reply-To: <199802100200.VAA03490@deathstar.jabberwock.org>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Mon, 9 Feb 1998, Mark Rogaski wrote:

: Here in the Peoples Republik ov NJ, the DL's have no magstrips.  But, 
: being that it is NJ, they're probably not far away.  An interesting point
: is that, when I moved (intrastate), the MVS sent a decal with the new
: address to stick on the back.  No re-issue necessary, which is good, since
: most bars/liquor stores will not accept licenses marked DUP.  But, they
: will accept passports.

I believe the sticker thing is standard practice...
: 
: Also interesting is that PA has recently (within the past 2-4 years) been
: issuing DL's with the driver's SSN.

That is standard practice in Missouri which I think is kinda silly but it
got me out of bringing my SSN card to my employers (which by then took
several spins through the washer :)
You have to request for the number to be different and CDL only allows it
on grounds of religious convictions.
I think I'll just form a sect...
Why are religions, no matter how kooky, respected so much??

---
Reality leaves a lot to the imagination.

jinn@inetnebr.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Markus Kuhn 
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 09:52:39 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: TEMPEST
In-Reply-To: <199802092316.RAA24851@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate wrote on 1998-02-09 23:16 UTC:
> The screen grid is where the dot clock goes to modulate the e-beam, or is
> your claim we're going to modulate the filament directly?

Ok, now I understand what you where talking about. Sorry, this was just a very
silly language misunderstanding (my knowledge of CRTs is based on
German vocabulary, so I mixed up "screen grid" and "mask" and was surprised
to read that you seemed to claim that the per-pixel on-off modulation
that van Eck described for his old-style terminals in fig 8c of his
C&S paper is still there in the form of current interruptions caused
by mask holes ... I hope you can understand my surprise ... ;-).
Forget everything I wrote about "screen grid modulation" in my last
reply, I fully agreed with you here.

> If your getting your signal off the harmonics you're doing it the hard way.
> Go back and re-read your texts on Fourier Transforms and then do a
> power-spectrum analysis on the signals to the tube; what you will find is
> that the primary frequencies get the majority of the signal (eg 1st harmonic
> of a square wave (ie a dot clock) only gets, at best, 1/3 of the energy of
> the primary).

But this is not necessarily, where the the monitor resonates nicely.
Van Eck has reported very similar results in his paper: His VDU
had a dot clock of 11 MHz and he got nice resonance peaks near 125
and 210 MHz.

> A very effective method to confuse Van Eck is to have several monitors
> sitting next to each other with different displays. A more active display
> is much more effective than one that is static (eg. such as a person typing
> in an email to cypherpunks).

If you have only a van Eck style receiver, yes. But as soon as you record
the reception over some time and observe the images phases to drift only
slightly against each other, you might be able to separate them using
similar processing techniques as used in computer tomography.

Markus

-- 
Markus G. Kuhn, Security Group, Computer Lab, Cambridge University, UK
email: mkuhn at acm.org,  home page: 






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "D'jinnie" 
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 15:53:21 +0800
To: Cypherpunks Mailing List 
Subject: Re: Driver Licenses
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980209122020.00889e90@popd.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Mon, 9 Feb 1998, Bill Stewart wrote:
: 
: Yup.  It's really annoying to have to give the California DMV lots of
: personal information about myself so they can track down deadbeat dads,
: given that I'm not even a dad, much less a deadbeat dad, and so they
: can track down Mexicans who want to drive without citizenship papers,
: and similar presumptions of potential guilt.

You're not required to be a citizen. You're not even required to be a
permanent resident. All you need is to be here legally for any length of
time. Some places won't check. Some require SSN cards, which can only be
issued to ppl who are here legally, regardless of work authorization
(since we all know SSN go way beyond original purpose ;)

---
Reality leaves a lot to the imagination.

jinn@inetnebr.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Janyce.com, Inc. Union Gap WA  USA" 
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 18:18:28 +0800
To: Cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: KCKSG Helpers List
In-Reply-To: <34AD7EAE.693B@toad.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980210021014.007f2c80@mail.eskimo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 03:56 PM 1/2/98 -0800, you wrote:
>I noticed that on the helpers section my ph # is listed.. I must have
>accidentally entered that. I would prefer that its not there..
>
>Could you please remove it?
>-Jim
>
>

I have no idea who a Jim whose address cypherpunks@toad.com is.

If you are a member, give me your membership no. and full name.
As requested please address member concerns to CUSTOMER.SERVICE@janyce.com

If you are not a member, how did you find the helpers list?


-= Janyce =-         Kissing Cousins Korner       
            http://www.janyce.com/genecous/book.html
      JOIN TODAY: http://www.janyce.com/misc/ccformC.html





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Lucky Green 
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 09:09:46 +0800
To: Tim May 
Subject: Re: Driver Licenses
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Mon, 9 Feb 1998, Tim May wrote:
> If a U.S. Passport is not considered enough I.D., because it doesn't have
> the Big Brother Inside magstripe, one walks away from the transaction.

Just as a data point, in the State of Oregon, an US passport is *not*
valid ID for alcohol purchases. Magstripe or no magstripe.

-- Lucky Green  PGP v5 encrypted email preferred.
   "Tonga? Where the hell is Tonga? They have Cypherpunks there?"





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 15:37:37 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Vulis is asking for it
Message-ID: <199802100729.CAA14882@panix2.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



   >   From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)

   >   A psychopath like Guy Polis could just call a TV station and claim that
   >   he put some poison in the water supply which would take a few days to
   >   test for.

   >   I recall that there was a bunch of bomb threates at Salomon Brothers last
   >   year, right after Guy Polis was fired from his contractor job.  Do you
   >   suppose the psychotic pedophile did it?
   >   
   >   Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
   >   Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

Your continued defamation is going to get you in a lot of trouble.

Cease it now, asshole.

Or you'll be the next Tawana Brawley defamation trial.

>   From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)

> #   Guy Polis (guy@panix.com, eviljay@bway.net) is a pedophile child
                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> #   molester who was fired from his consulting position at Salomon Brothers
> #   after he was caught masturbating in his cubicle at the child pornography
> #   JPEGs that he downloaded from the Internet.
> #
> #   In retaliation, Guy Polis spammed the firewalls mailing list with megabytes
> #   of e-mail logs that he "intercepted" at Salomon Brothers, and accused
> #   several of his former co-workers and supervisors of various crimes.
> #
> #   As far as I can determine, Guy Polis has been unemployed since the time
> #   he was fired from Salomon.  If anyone knows otherwise, please let me know.


Besides the obvious, you've got _everything_ wrong.

   o I was not fired
   o I am not a psychopath
   o I did not download child porno
   o I am not AIDS-infected
   o I am not a faggot
   o I have been continuously employed since completing my Salomon contract
   o no one (name them) at Salomon or any other firm has stated otherwise.
   o I am not a pedophile

You'd better stop lying.

---guy

   Don't cross the line again.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 09:57:52 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Driver Licenses
In-Reply-To: <199802082027.PAA00347@users.invweb.net>
Message-ID: <199802100152.CAA03245@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> Yup.  It's really annoying to have to give the California DMV lots of
> personal information about myself so they can track down deadbeat dads,
> given that I'm not even a dad, much less a deadbeat dad, and so they
> can track down Mexicans who want to drive without citizenship papers,
> and similar presumptions of potential guilt.

Actually, thanks to NAFTA, the Mexicans can drive without citizenship
papers, and they don't have to give the California DMV shit.  All they
need is a valid mexican driver license and they can drive in the US.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 10:18:37 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: What Jim Choate doesn't know
Message-ID: <199802100200.DAA04492@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



When Jim Choate writes about something that I know about, he is usually
wrong.  Look at the hash he made of quantum mechanics recently.  And don't
get me started on his blunders regarding cryptography.

So when he writes about something I don't know about, like the EM
emissions of video tubes, I tend to assume the same thing.  He's probably
all messed up.

Anybody else have the same experience?

And how about his countless off-topic posts, forwarding all kinds of
pointless crap?  Is anyone else sick of that, too?





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Lucky Green 
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 10:01:07 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: SOFT TEMPEST (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199802092357.RAA25254@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Mon, 9 Feb 1998, Jim Choate wrote:
> That's good. The thought that given current technology a signal reception
> van could pull one monitors display out of a building that could potentialy
> have 1,000+ pc's (my last job had about 1500/floor and 3 floors) at a range
> of say 200 ft. is truly incomprehensible. If it works that is a feat worth
> many laurels.

I don't know about displaying the screens of several thousands of PC's at
a site, but you can easily select any given screen of several dozens of
PC's. Using $100 worth in equipment plus a  [>>$100] quality frequency
generator.

At HIP'97, I watched a van Eck demonstration given by a German professor.
Using cheap analog equipment and one of the better HP frequency
generators, he pulled screen images from the power line, the networking
cable, and out of thin air. Since the oscillators in the devices to be
monitored all have slightly different frequencies, you can actually tune
the monitoring equipment to a specific PC. Even if there are numerous PC
on the same floor of the building.

I am told screen images can be captured up to 600 meters along the power
line.

Now all this was done without the use of a DSP. I can only imagine what
one could capture after adding a DSP to the setup.

-- Lucky Green  PGP v5 encrypted email preferred.
   "Tonga? Where the hell is Tonga? They have Cypherpunks there?"





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "WebWarrior3@InfoWar.Com" 
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 16:47:28 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Cyber 'Nannys"
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <34E01274.4531F0CD@InfoWar.Com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Tim May wrote:

> I don't mean to be flippant . At issue here is a very real issue of free
> choice and contracts. Customers cannot "demand" a list of criteria for
> blocked sites any more than customers can demand a list of the selection
> criteria a bookstore uses, or a magazine editor uses, and so on.

Ever hear of consumer protection laws? There are many cases where consumers
are allowed to "demand" information regarding their purchases...you were being
flippant. One subscribes to a magazine because one knows what the focus of the
content is and one chooses to receive that periodical; not because the
magazine MAY have an editorial policy to not cover any stories on the
"Oddities of Toenail Fungus in Bleached Blonde Yaks from Manhattan."

> I make fun of Cyber Sitter and other Net.Nannies, but there's no role for
> "disagreeing with the fact" (whatever that infelicitous expression may
> mean) that they usually don't publicize their criteria.

Pardon my poor choice of words, please.  Looking back on it, I can see that I
could have chosen a better way to express my meaning.  In case you did not get
the gist, let me clarify it for you:  I find it to be an irresponsible
business practice for a company not to provide a customer with information on
exactly what a product does and does not do.  In a case where a product claims
to 'protect' children from certain 'harmful' material, parents should be able
to view these criteria in order to:A) discern whether they agree that the
material is harmful
and
B) make an educated choice regarding which, if any, of these products they
want to purchase.

Saying that a customer can not demand to know what the product does is like
saying that a car manufacturer should not have to tell potential customers if
the engine block is made of aluminum, cast iron, or wood.  Likewise, remember
an agency called the FDA?  Hmm, wonder if one of the reasons we have
ingredient labels on our packaged food is so people can verify that certain
ingredients are not in the products.  Have any allergies, Tim?

> If you can figure out their criteria, great...

Huh?  Where did that come from?

> But make sure that your "disagreeing with the fact" is not translated into
> calling
> for disclosure laws. That way lies statism.

There are already consumer protection laws.  I don't think that this is a
concentration of extensive economic controls in the State, do you?  Really,
Tim...

It is neither my option nor is it my responsibility to change someone's little
paranoid mind should they confuse consumer protection with statism, that is a
job for a psychiatrist or a professor.

Scott R. Brower
http://www.infowar.com
http://www.efflorida.org






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 18:37:19 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Driver Licenses
Message-ID: <88b57910d1bea792655156201f962142@anon.efga.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Lucky Green  enlightened us with:

> On Mon, 9 Feb 1998, Tim May wrote:
> > If a U.S. Passport is not considered enough I.D., 
> > because it doesn't have the Big Brother Inside 
> > magstripe, one walks away from the transaction.
> 
> Just as a data point, in the State of Oregon, an US 
> passport is *not* valid ID for alcohol purchases. 
> Magstripe or no magstripe.

Of course not! The People's Socialist Nirvana of Oregon
is a foreign country. Just the fact that almost all
other foreign countries recognize the U.S. passport as
valid identification for things far more momentous than
the purchase of alcohol doesn't mean that the PSNofO
has to!

What do they require in Oregon? A little holographic
tatoo in paisley? A barcode on the tongue? Oh, I know!
A machine-readable ID on the inside of the rectum!

Has anyone figured out the obvious answer to this shit?
If you have, don't answer. And don't send me the bodies
by UPS collect, either.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 13:54:08 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: King Willie:-- He's between Iraq and a Hard-On
Message-ID: <199802100536.GAA01716@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Well... It looks as though the 17th will be a "good day to die"
if your an Iraqi...Many sources seem to be targeting the window
of Feb 17 - Feb 23 for the start of hostilities...
Wag the dawg... comes to mind of course... I wouldn't put it past
King Willie to do such a thing to deflect attention from Peckergate..
It seems to me though that the lunatic in charge of North Korea
might just find that Feb 17- 23 is also a good time to play
games in the south :(  after all... the worlds policeman will be
preoccupied and stretched mighty thin... 
        





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Lucky Green 
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 13:56:00 +0800
To: Dave Emery 
Subject: Re: SOFT TEMPEST (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <19980209235936.37986@die.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Mon, 9 Feb 1998, Dave Emery wrote:

> On Tue, Feb 10, 1998 at 03:03:53AM +0100, Lucky Green wrote:
> > 
> > Now all this was done without the use of a DSP. I can only imagine what
> > one could capture after adding a DSP to the setup.
> 
> 	Miles...
> 	
> 	Given static screen images and thousands of repetitions in a few
> seconds the processing gain from integration of the signal verus the 
> uncorrelated noise over thousands of cycles gets quite interesting. And
> add to that the tricks one can do with comb filters and combining
> together the correllated energy from several harmonics of the dot clock
> one can see that getting signal out from under the trash is easy even at
> considerable distances.

That would be my analysis as well. Note that the van Eck demonstration I
saw didn't even make use of the common analog tricks, such as using a
super heterodyne receiver. Not to mention the near magical capabilities of
a few Fourier transforms for pulling a nice, fat signal spike out of all
that "white noise".

There wasn't a single person watching said demonstration in that brutally
hot tent at HIP'97 that didn't walk away impressed. And I can off the top
of my head come up with a design that would improve the gain by at least
20dB over what was used there..


-- Lucky Green  PGP v5 encrypted email preferred.
   "Tonga? Where the hell is Tonga? They have Cypherpunks there?"





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Duncan Frissell 
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 20:27:09 +0800
To: Lucky Green 
Subject: Re: Driver Licenses
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980210071222.036cee1c@panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 02:12 AM 2/10/98 +0100, Lucky Green wrote:
>On Mon, 9 Feb 1998, Tim May wrote:
>> If a U.S. Passport is not considered enough I.D., because it doesn't have
>> the Big Brother Inside magstripe, one walks away from the transaction.
>
>Just as a data point, in the State of Oregon, an US passport is *not*
>valid ID for alcohol purchases. Magstripe or no magstripe.
>
>-- Lucky Green  PGP v5 encrypted email preferred.
>   "Tonga? Where the hell is Tonga? They have Cypherpunks there?"

So I guess foreigners can't buy booze in Oregon at all.  

The new (last 10 years) passports don't have a mag stripe but do have the ICAO machine- reabable text string including a replay of the Passport info together with checksum digits.  There is also space for a National ID Number for those countries which have one but it is blank on US passports since we don't have a national ID.

DCF





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Duncan Frissell 
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 20:40:31 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Driver Licenses
In-Reply-To: <199802082027.PAA00347@users.invweb.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980210071357.036c98d8@panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 02:52 AM 2/10/98 +0100, Anonymous wrote:
>> Yup.  It's really annoying to have to give the California DMV lots of
>> personal information about myself so they can track down deadbeat dads,
>> given that I'm not even a dad, much less a deadbeat dad, and so they
>> can track down Mexicans who want to drive without citizenship papers,
>> and similar presumptions of potential guilt.
>
>Actually, thanks to NAFTA, the Mexicans can drive without citizenship
>papers, and they don't have to give the California DMV shit.  All they
>need is a valid mexican driver license and they can drive in the US.

NAFTA has nothing to do with it.  You've always been able to drive with a foreign license.

DCF





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 01:20:12 +0800
To: "cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Cyber 'Nannys"
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 12:40 AM -0800 2/10/98, WebWarrior3@InfoWar.Com wrote:
>Tim May wrote:
>
>> I don't mean to be flippant . At issue here is a very real issue of free
>> choice and contracts. Customers cannot "demand" a list of criteria for
>> blocked sites any more than customers can demand a list of the selection
>> criteria a bookstore uses, or a magazine editor uses, and so on.
>
>Ever hear of consumer protection laws? There are many cases where consumers
>are allowed to "demand" information regarding their purchases...you were being
>flippant. One subscribes to a magazine because one knows what the focus of the

No, I was _not_ being flippant (which was what I said). I was being
libertarian.

As far as I'm concerned, absent a contract, anyone who "demands" something
from me is on thin ice.

Like I said, if you're unhappy that CyberSitter or NetNanny will not
provide you with information you wish to have, use another service.

But don't cite "Consumer Protection Laws."

--Tim May


Just Say No to "Big Brother Inside"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^3,021,377   | black markets, collapse of governments.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 00:01:45 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: SOFT TEMPEST (fwd)
Message-ID: <199802101550.JAA02061@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 06:46:55 +0100 (CET)
> From: Lucky Green 
> Subject: Re: SOFT TEMPEST (fwd)

> That would be my analysis as well. Note that the van Eck demonstration I
> saw didn't even make use of the common analog tricks, such as using a
> super heterodyne receiver.

In what context? The only place a super-het would buy you any selectivity,
and its tight bandwidth may actualy work against you, is in capturing the
data on each trace. The syn pulses aren't amplitude sensitive so much as
time ordered. If you can get a clear signal use that to fire a Schmitt
trigger and synthesize your sync pulses and ramps/stairstep generators from
that. Using a super-het for this is over-kill.

> Not to mention the near magical capabilities of
> a few Fourier transforms for pulling a nice, fat signal spike out of all
> that "white noise".

Doing a Fourier on the grass won't pull the signal out unless you've got an
integration function in there to filter the noise (ala flying cap filter).
If the signal is strong enough that a Fourier can be applied to it then the
signal is most likely strong enough to use directly. The data we're trying
to get out isn't that complicated; two sync pulses and the e-beam modulation
data.

I would like to request that you provide a better description of the
equipment used at HIP for the demo. If the various descriptions of that are
accurate his signal detection range was around 50 - 100 ft. and he was using
specialy sized fonts (special in the context that you wouldn't use them for
a spreadsheet or document processing). Is this correct?


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |       The most powerful passion in life is not love or hate,       |
   |       but the desire to edit somebody elses words.                 |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                  Sign in Ed Barsis' office         |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Steve Mynott 
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 17:59:05 +0800
To: Lucky Green 
Subject: Re: SOFT TEMPEST (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <19980209235936.37986@die.com>
Message-ID: <19980210095845.47535@tightrope.demon.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Tue, Feb 10, 1998 at 06:46:55AM +0100, Lucky Green wrote:

> There wasn't a single person watching said demonstration in that brutally
> hot tent at HIP'97 that didn't walk away impressed. And I can off the top
> of my head come up with a design that would improve the gain by at least
> 20dB over what was used there..

I wasn't impressed.

That main tent was an old circus tent and was huge with enough room for
one thousand people.  Unfortunately it had the effect of focusing and
amplifying the already excessive heat on the sweating and dehydrated
victims sitting in it.  By the final day an attempt had been made to
open it up a bit more and to spray cold water on it.

The first thing I saw was a demonstration of the "Van Eck effect".
The idea was to pick up the screen display of someone's monitor at a
distance to read the information off it.  The lecturer was a German
professor and spoke heavily accented English.  He was very much as a
German professor might be shown in a film.  He spoke a lot about "Ze
Incriminating Emissions", which seemed rather funny at the time.

He had an aerial, which looked like an unconvincing Dr Who prop,
attached to a standard TV.  The circus tent atmosphere led somehow
to the impression that he was a stage magician performing tricks.
Also the audience's habit of cheering after each trick didn't help.
On the target PC screen were a few words in a very large font and he was
able to display this up on the TV.  He also put a device around the power
 supply lead and could pick up a better picture this way.  There were
mutterings from the audience, many of whom seemed unimpressed.  At the
question session the poor chap got a rather hard ride.  The gist of it
being "What we have been shown is twenty years old, there are modern
digital techniques that are much better".  His reply was "They are very
expensive and we have only just got the equipment and the results aren't
finished yet."  The counter measures were Tempest shielding.

In short if your password is visible on your monitor in letters three
inches high and there is a van outside your office with a large aerial
and German plates this might mean trouble.  Or maybe the NSA can pick
 it up anyway from America using the "newer techniques".


-- 
Steve Mynott
"no man or group of men shall aggress upon the person or property of anyone
else."  -- Murray N. Rothbard





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 02:16:31 +0800
To: Adam Back 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 1:34 PM -0800 2/9/98, Adam Back wrote:

>I am not sure I want to see my computer narcing out over RF
>frequencies what software is installed -- once enabled for corporates


Why not monkeywrench the narcware to narc out falsely?

Imagine 100 copies of a program all screaming "Bill Gates"!

(ObCrypto: One can imagine methods to broadcast a new signifier each time a
program is started...some kind of zero knowledge approach. But this gets
difficult when the broadcast program is under the control of those trying
to defeat the system. A well known problem. E.g., if N copies are all
identical, and the ZKIPS approach is generated in software, the N copies
will overlap signals. And so on. I expect the Anderson-Kuhn approach
broadcasts a single identifier, though I have not yet had time to look at
their paper, so I may be wrong here.)

Narcware will face a lot of customer resistance.

--Tim May

Just Say No to "Big Brother Inside"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^3,021,377   | black markets, collapse of governments.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 00:35:18 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Open Source Software - Proposal (fwd)
Message-ID: <199802101637.KAA02458@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:
>From ravage@ssz.com Tue Feb 10 10:35:27 1998
From: Jim Choate 
Message-Id: <199802101635.KAA02425@einstein.ssz.com>
Subject: Open Source Software - Proposal
To: users@ssz.com (SSZ User Mail List)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 10:35:25 -0600 (CST)
Cc: friends@ssz.com (Ravage's Friends), stugreen@realtime.net
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23]
Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 3835      


Forwarded message:

> X-within-URL: http://earthspace.net/~esr/open-source.html

>    
>                 GOODBYE, "FREE SOFTWARE"; HELLO, "OPEN SOURCE"
>                                        
>    After the Netscape announcement broke in February early 1998 I did a
>    lot of thinking about the next phase -- the serious push to get "free
>    software" accepted in mainstream corporate America. And I realized we
>    have a serious problem with "free software" itself.
>    
>    Specifically, we have a problem with the term "free software", itself,
>    not the concept. I've become convinced that the term has to go.
>    
>    The problem with it is twofold. First, it's confusing; the term "free"
>    is very ambiguous (something the Free Software Foundation's propaganda
>    has to wrestle with constantly). Does "free" mean "no money charged?"
>    or does it mean "free to be modified by anyone", or something else?
>    
>    Second, the term makes a lot of corporate types nervous. While this
>    does not intrinsically bother me in the least, we now have a pragmatic
>    interest in converting these people rather than thumbing our noses at
>    them. There's now a chance we can make serious gains in the mainstream
>    business world without compromising our ideals and commitment to
>    technical excellence -- so it's time to reposition. We need a new and
>    better label.
>    
>    I brainstormed this with some Silicon Valley fans of Linux the day
>    after my meeting with Netscape (Feb 5th). We kicked around and
>    discarded several alternatives, and we came up with a replacement
>    label we all liked: "open source".
>    
>    John "maddog" Hall and Larry Augustin, both of the Linux International
>    Board of Directors, were in on the brainstorming session (though
>    interestingly enough the term "open source" was suggested by
>    non-hacker Chris Peterson, observing for the Foresight Institute).
>    Linus Torvalds himself approved it the following day. And it isn't a
>    Linux-only thing; Keith Bostic likes it and says he thinks the BSD
>    community can be brought on board.
>    
>    We suggest that everywhere we as a culture have previously talked
>    about "free software", the label should be changed to "open source".
>    Open-source software. The open-source model. The open source culture.
>    The Debian Open Source Guidelines. (In pitching this to corporate
>    America I'm also going to be invoking the idea of "peer review" a
>    lot.)
>    
>    Bruce Perens has volunteered to register "open source" as a trademark
>    and hold it through Software in the Public Interest. And RMS himself
>    has said he'll use the term (though not exclusively) as long as the
>    Open Source Definition Bruce is working up isn't weaker than the
>    Debian Free Software Guidelines.
>    
>    And, we should explain publicly the reason for the change. Linus has
>    been saying in "World Domination 101" that the open-source culture
>    needs to make a serious effort to take the desktop and engage the
>    corporate mainstream. Of course he's right -- and this re-labeling, as
>    Linus agrees, is part of the process. It says we're willing to work
>    with and co-opt the market for our own purposes, rather than remaining
>    stuck in a marginal, adversarial position.
>    
>    It's crunch time, people. The Netscape announcement changes
>    everything. We've broken out of the little corner we've been in for
>    twenty years. We're in a whole new game now, a bigger and more
>    exciting one -- and one I think we can win.
>    
>    
>      _________________________________________________________________
>    
>    Back to Eric's Home Page Up to Site Map $Date: 1998/02/10 03:55:36 $
>    
>    
>     Eric S. Raymond 
> 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 00:37:35 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: New: Linux Weekly News (fwd)
Message-ID: <199802101637.KAA02468@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:
>From ravage@ssz.com Tue Feb 10 10:34:50 1998
From: Jim Choate 
Message-Id: <199802101634.KAA02399@einstein.ssz.com>
Subject: New: Linux Weekly News
To: users@ssz.com (SSZ User Mail List)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 10:34:40 -0600 (CST)
Cc: friends@ssz.com (Ravage's Friends), stugreen@realtime.net
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23]
Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 19324     


Forwarded message:

> X-within-URL: http://www.eklektix.com/lwn/

>                                LINUX WEEKLY NEWS
>                                        
>    
>    
>    
>      _________________________________________________________________
>    
>    -->
>    
>    Linux Weekly News
>    
>    
>    
>    Bringing you the latest news from the Linux World.
>    Dedicated to keeping Linux users up-to-date, with concise news for all
>    interests
>    Published February 5, 1998
>    
>    Sections:
>    Linux articles
>    Security
>    Kernel news
>    Distributions
>    Ports
>    Software Development
>    Tips and tricks
>    Announcements
>    
>    
> Leading items
> 
>    This is going to be the year of free software. I have honestly come to
>    believe that. The free software movement is about to make tremendous
>    gains in respect and mindshare in realms where it has long been
>    ignored. Big software firms may want to start worrying, because the
>    world is changing around them.
>    
>    Anybody who didn't read Eric S. Raymond's The Cathedral and the Bazaar
>    paper should go and do so now. It describes the Linux development
>    model nicely, as well as the reasons for the success of that model.
>    Netscape has credited this paper with being a crucial influence in
>    their decision to free the source to their browser.
>    
>    As of this writing, Eric is evidently in Silicon Valley discussing
>    licensing terms with Netscape. The word is that he is also meeting
>    with several other "leading Silicon Valley CEO's" to discuss the free
>    software model. One wonders who else may decide to adopt the bazaar
>    model of development.
>    
>    Whether or not other firms follow Netscape in the near future, free
>    software now has a visibility that was lacking before. Peruse the set
>    of articles listed below, and you'll see what we mean. This can only
>    be good for the Linux world, as the validity of its model of
>    development gains the recognition it deserves. It's looking like
>    interesting times.
>    
>    David Miller, the force behind the Sparc and SGI ports, finally
>    resurfaced after a longish, low-profile period. To see what he has
>    been doing, check out the Cobalt Micro page. I don't know anybody who
>    has actually run one of these cool, blue Linux boxes, but they look
>    like a fun toy...
>    
>    Does unix need to be rescued from the hackers?. This item isn't
>    particularly new, but Michael Hoffman's article on the need for a
>    seamless graphical user interface for unix systems is still good food
>    for thought. Another person, Perry Harrington, would like to replace
>    the X window system with something better, and which would include a
>    serious user interface policy. See his page if you would like to
>    participate.
>    
>    Peruse the LWN Archives.
>    
>    Our obligatory Linux links page.
>    
>    Got some feedback, some news to publish, or something else you would
>    like to tell us? lwn@eklektix.com is our address.
>    
>    Or would you like to be notified when new editions of the Linux Weekly
>    News are published? Click here and send a blank message.
>    
>    Please see our contact page for other contact information.
>    
>    The permanent site for this page is here.      [Articles]
>    
> Linux in the news
> 
>    Wired news ran an article on free software last week. The obvious
>    point of interest was Netscape, but Linux rated some favorable mention
>    as well. It's a reasonable discussion of the merits of free software
>    in general.
>    
>    Accolades from the Emerald Isle. An article in the Irish Times
>    financial section is also favorable toward Linux, explicitly as an
>    alternative to NT. I assume that "Linux remains at the coalface
>    technologically [...]" is a positive thing...
>    
>    There is a four-part series on free software in news.com this week.
>    It's a reasonably good and sympathetic series, despite its title:
>    "Socialist Software."
>    
>    Many of us have heard the old argument: "There is no technical support
>    for Linux." Well, then, why has Infoworld awarded its 1997 technical
>    support award to the Linux community? It's a great bit of recognition
>    that just because software is free doesn't mean that it's unsupported.
>    Show this one to your boss.
>    
>    Ah yes, and their award for operating systems went to Red Hat 5.0...
>    
>    Two other articles in Infoworld: Nicolas Petreley thinks that
>    Netscape's move could be a winning strategy, while Mark Tebbe talks of
>    the model used by "a renegade OS such as Linux" and raises, you
>    guessed it, the spectre of support.
>    
>    "[Linux] is emerging as a viable competitor to Microsoft's Windows NT"
>    according to an article in the New York Times. Note that this site
>    requires registration now... The old convention of using 'cypherpunks'
>    for the username and password will get you in, if you don't wish to
>    register separately.
>    
>    The folks at TBTF ran a couple of Linux-related articles this week.
>    One, dedicated to estimating the size of the Linux community, comes up
>    with 5-7 million installed Linux systems in the world.
>    
>    We are told January's issue of Sky & Telescope has a nice Linux
>    article in it. We haven't seen it, though; check your local newsstand.
>    
>    
>    CNN's article on top selling software for January includes a reference
>    to Red Hat Linux. It's number three in the "Business Software
>    (MS-DOS/OS/2)" section. "Business software" can almost make sense, but
>    "MS-DOS"???        [Security] A serious X-windows security problem has
>    been reported in XKB, depending on X11 version and environment, which
>    can allow local users to exploit a "feature" XDB to execute arbitrary
>    programs with extra privileges. Quick vulnerability check and fix are
>    provided in the posting to linux-alert. You can also see Red Hat's
>    advisory on this bug.
>    
>    The AT&T Crowds project has chosen linux for their next target. Crowds
>    is intended to protect a person's anonymity as they browse the web and
>    already runs under SunOS, Solaris and Irix.
>    
>    The filter program that comes as part of the elm-2.4 package contains
>    two vulnerabilities, one of which could be remotely exploited. Details
>    here.
>    
>    Michal Zalewski reported a problem with gzexe, part of the gzip
>    package. Seems it uses predictable filenames in /tmp, which may allow
>    users to destroy the contents of files on your system. Use of gzexe is
>    not widespread, but Red Hat recommends upgrading your version of gzip.
>           [Kernel] The current development kernel version is 2.1.85. It
>    includes the ability to boot off of MD striped disks, a bunch of SCSI
>    changes for machines with the IBM MCA bus, bug fixes, and
>    documentation updates. Thus far, reported problems are few, though
>    there are evidently some build problems with the MCA SCSI stuff.
>    
>    Alan Cox states that TCP is "somewhat broken" in the 2.1.8x series,
>    "and will remain so until it's fixed." As always with development
>    kernels, be careful out there. Patches continue to roll in towards a
>    (still somewhat distant) 2.2 release.
>    
>    A stated goal, once development starts on 2.3, is reworking and
>    cleaning up the sound driver code. Some of you may have noticed that
>    it can be a bit, um, difficult to configure and make work right. It's
>    not clear how that development will proceed, but Colin Plumb posted a
>    good, concise article on some of the issues involved.
>    
>    Richard Gooch continues to update his enhancements. The MTRR patch
>    (MTRR stands for Memory Type Range Registers - now we all understand,
>    right?), which greatly speeds frame buffer access, is up to rev 1.8
>    (against kernel 2.1.84). His "devfs" patch (runtime creation of the
>    /dev tree) is up to version 18. Both are available from his patch
>    page. Still no word on when (or if) these patches will go into the
>    2.1 kernel.
>    
>    Unless you have a multiprocessor machine, be sure not to compile your
>    kernels with SMP enabled. Recent development kernels seem to be even
>    less than usually forgiving in this regard; SMP kernels on a
>    uniprocessor machine can die in weird and unpleasant ways.
>    Unfortunately, SMP is still the default, and is not a configuration
>    option; you need to edit the Makefile and comment out the SMP = 1 line
>    near the beginning. Believe me (voice of experience here) it's an easy
>    thing to forget...
>    
>    Also in the SMP arena is a flurry of activity around IO-APIC use. The
>    IO-APIC is an interrupt controller on multiprocessor systems which is
>    able to route interrupts to any CPU, thus helping to create a true
>    symmetric multiprocessing system. However, each motherboard seems to
>    do it a little different, leading to one of those bits of hardware
>    obnoxiousness that takes a long time to sort out. The 2.1.85 kernel
>    added a document describing IO-APIC for those interested in the
>    details.
>    
>    Is the Linux Maintenance Project dead? The question was raised this
>    week, since the web pages have not been updated in recent times. The
>    answer is that the maintainer is busy, and some new ways of running
>    the web pages are being worked out. Expect some activity there in the
>    not-too-distant future.
>    
>    William Stearns is working on a program to automate the process of
>    building a new kernel. Check out his web page for more info. Since
>    we're a weekly publication, chances are we'll be behind a rev or two
>    on the kernel release by the time you read this page. Up-to-the-second
>    information can always be found at LinuxHQ.      [DISTRIBUTIONS] 
>    
> Debian
> 
>    Yes, it's true! Debian is dumping dselect! From the recent mention on
>    debian-announce, the new package manager meant to replace dselect is
>    now being demonstrated and will probably appear in 2.1 or one of the
>    early point releases.
>    
>    Mentioned recently on debian-announce, a Debian system was used to
>    develop the AMSAT Phase 3-D satellite, one of the series of Ham Radio
>    Satellites. Check it out here.
>    
>    A reminder to frustrated Debian users who are only finding their
>    favorite software in RPM format: "alien" can be used instead. If you
>    have trouble with alien, try upgrading to debianutils 1.6.
>    
>    The January issue of the German magazine CHIP Extra comes with a
>    CD-ROM containing Debian 1.3.1 and the Beta version of StarOffice 4.0
>    for Linux. Review from debian-user indicates that the issue is very
>    well done, with a lot of useful info for both novices and users.
>    Here's CHIP's Web site, primarily in German.
>    
> Red Hat
> 
>    Red Hat reports recent turn-over in their support staff which has hurt
>    the Red Hat installation support they provide via e-mail to people who
>    purchase their $50 set. They "have been working to midnight and
>    beyond" to catch up with the backload and have hired new staff. Robert
>    Hart (Red Hat's support manager) assured people on redhat-list that
>    Red Hat installation support will not be terminated at 30 days if a
>    delay on their part caused the time to run out.
>    
>    Red Hat 5.0 users have also been griping a bit about how the errata
>    pages are handled. Complaints include slow updates, and Red Hat's
>    tendency to update existing entries, making it very hard to notice a
>    second update for a given package. A call was made for public
>    announcements from Red Hat whenever updates go out.
>    
>    Users on redhat-list have been poking at
>    http://www.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Personal/L.Wood/IE4mk/, finding that
>    accessing it from Netscape 4.04 crashes some Xservers, and not others,
>    depending on your Xserver and Linux version. No direct link is
>    provided, on-purpose, but feel free to check it out!.
>    
>    Off-topic, but on the redhat-list, Dave Wreski compiled and posted a
>    list of free ssh-clients for Windows. He would like to see people
>    choose one, try it out and post a review, since interest in them is so
>    high.
>    
> Slackware
> 
>    Reported on bugtraq: Imapd/ipop3d problems in slackware 3.4 if you
>    install the pine package. When fed an unknown username, imapd and
>    ipop3d will dump core. Details here. Patrick Volkerding [maintainer of
>    Slackware] has already responded and will put out a repaired package.
>    
> S.u.S.E
> 
>    For the Linux trivia buffs, S.u.S.E stands for 'Software und System
>    Entwicklung', which means software and system development. If you're
>    interested in S.u.S.E's history, check out this post from Bodo Bauer.
>    
>    How do you pronounce S.u.S.E? A popular Americanism is "Suzie", but if
>    you ask in Germany, the pronunciation will be closer to "Seuss-eh" (as
>    in Doctor Seuss) or "Souss-uh". Boy was it fun to watch people try and
>    describe a sound in an e-mail message!
>    
>    There are a lot of converts from various Unix flavors on the
>    suse-linux-e list (of course!). If you're interested in comments from
>    one person who recently installed the distribution, check it out.
>      [Ports] 
>    
> Alpha
> 
>    At least one Linux system vendor (Net Express) has stopped selling
>    Alpha-based systems as a result of the Compaq takeover of Digital. See
>    their Alpha systems page for details on their reasoning. On the other
>    hand, most other vendors and the Alpha discussion lists remain
>    relatively calm on this subject, suggesting that not everybody is
>    worried.
>    
>    There is an article in SunWorld Online about the Compaq takeover. No
>    real conclusions, but they raise some concerns.
>    
> Sparc
> 
>    People are already asking whether SPARC/Linux will run on the new,
>    PCI-based Ultra workstations. No definitive answer has been posted,
>    but it seems awfully unlikely. The new bus, new video, and (oh joy)
>    IDE disks are all stuff that SPARC/Linux has never had to deal with
>    before.  /td>      [Software Development] Almost overnight, the
>    linux-ha (linux high-availability list) has revived and is generating
>    good discussion! If you are interested in high-availability Linux
>    solutions, now is the time to get involved! You can subscribe to
>    linux-ha on the Linux Mailing Lists page.
>    
>           [Articles] Some folks are discovering they can no longer access
>    hosts with underscores in their names. Host names with underscores
>    have always been against the rules, but many systems have let them
>    work anyway. However, the new GNU C library, shipping with the latest
>    Linux distributions, enforces this rule. If you have host names with
>    _underscores_, you might want to consider renaming them soon.
>    
>    Want to run Oracle 7.3.3 under Linux? Jan Andersen posted a detailed
>    howto describing the path to there using the IBCS package.
>    
>    If you see these errors from Netscape Communicator 4.04:
>    
>      sh: -c line 1: missing closing `)' for arthmetic expression sh: -1
>      line 1: syntax error near unexpected token `;' sh: -c line 1:
>      `((/usr/local/bin/rvplayer /tmp/MO34B2F4B209B0136.ram); rm /tmp/\
>      MO34B2F4B209B0136.ram )&'
>      
>    your problem is actually probably your version of bash. Try upgrading
>    to the latest version (2.01) to fix the problem. 
>    [Announcements] 
>    
> Software and documents
> 
>     Package Version Description accton 4.0 Driver for Accton pocket
>    ethernet adaptor buslogic 2.0.11 Leonard Zubkoff's outstanding
>    BusLogic SCSI adaptor driver CD patch Patch to 2.0 33 kernel to
>    support new CD formats datapult 2.02 Scripting language for web
>    servers ddd 2.2.2 Graphical front end to gdb (very nice) FireMyst 0.8
>    Small, UMSDOS-based system (for recovery diskettes) fnorb 0.4 CORBA
>    object request broker for Python. One of the best-named packages out
>    there, in your editor's opinion. freetype 1.0 TrueType font rendering
>    engine ImageMagick 4.0 Amazing image manipulation/conversion system
>    KDEbeta 3 K desktop environment lftp 0.14.0 Command-line FTP client
>    lilo-color Patch to Lilo 20 to display boot messages in color linbot
>    0.3 Web site management tool mat 0.15 System administration tool plor
>    0.3.2 Offline mail and news reader secure-linux Patch to kernel 2.0.33
>    to add a number of security features. SMS client 2.0.5 Send SMS
>    messages to mobile phones snipix 2.12 Run SNA (and talk to your old
>    IBM mainframes) on your Linux box. Free for Linux, commercial for
>    other OS's. Software Building mini-HOWTO 1.52 HOWTO on building
>    software from source StarOffice 4.0 Office suite, free for private use
>    TkInfo 2.4 Tcl/Tk-based info browser TtH 1.1 Translate TeX to HTML
>    webalizer beta WWW server log analysis xbomb 2.1 X-based minesweeper
>    game LLNL XDIR 2.1 Motif-based graphical FTP client xtc 0005 X toolkit
>    in Java zed 1.0.1 "Fast, powerful, simple, configurable" text editor.
>      -->
>    
> Projects
> 
>    A bunch of ambitious folks have announced the Java/Linux NC project.
>    They want to provide a complete network computer implementation, with
>    a full set of Microsoft-type applications, for free. Java and Linux
>    are their tools. It's a big project, and I wish them luck; check out
>    their announcement for more info, or to join up.
>    
>    Other folks want to clone Userland's "Frontier" scripting environment.
>    See their announcement for more.
>    
>    A volunteer-supported (commercial) Webzine, 32 Bits Online is looking
>    for LINUX writers to share with the world why Linux is their operating
>    system of choice. If you're interested in an audience for your
>    opinions, send e-mail to Ronny Ko.
>    
>    The Virtuoso project seeks to put together a fancy 3d graphics package
>    for Linux. See their announcement if you would like to help.
>    
>    The folks with the amazing samba project are setting out to create a
>    free NT domain controller.
>    
>    The Linux Clothing Project moves into a new phase of Linux fashion.
>    Heaven forbid we have any naked Linuxes out there...
>    
> Web Sites
> 
>    The LSDB (Linux Software Database), a cgi searchable database of linux
>    software has moved. The new address is http://www.egypt.pca.net. 
>    
> Events
> 
>    1998 Atlanta Linux Showcase, October 23 - 24, 1998, Atlanta, Georgia.
>    
>    Asia and Pacific Rim Internet Conference on Operational Technologies
>    (APRICOT). Manila, Philippines, February 16-20, 1998.
>    
> On the lighter side
> 
>    A native returning "down under" after a year and a half gives a note
>    on Linux' increased popularity in Australia.
>    
>    Some fear that the joke announcement that Linus was going to integrate
>    Netscape into the Linux Operating System may have the same lifespan as
>    the Good Times Virus ...        Eklektix, Inc. Linux powered! This
>    page is produced by Eklektix, Inc. 
> 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Miller 
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 23:47:59 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Spanish biometric project 45% complete
Message-ID: <34E09F10.6AB7@avana.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>Business Systems Magazine, Feb. 1998, p. 78:

>BIOMETRICS PROTECTS GOVERNMENT DATA

>For example, Spain's government recently integrated biometric
>verification units in 633 informational kiosks that will
>eventually be used by 7 million citizens (the project is 45%
>complete).
>...
>The 633 kiosks are located in various government offices in
>the Andalusia region of Spain, says John Souder, program
>manager for Unisys.  The Spanish Government plans to implement
>the kiosks nationwide.
>...
>To use the kiosks, citizens had to obtain a smart card with
>their name and an ID number.  Citizens also had to be "enrolled"
>in the system.  During the enrollment process, each citizen's
>right or left index fingerprint is scanned and stored to the
>smart card.  That way, the system can verify the citizen using
>the card is the same person authorized to use it.
>...
>Citizens can then access databases for the National Institute
>of Social Security; the National Institute of Employment; the
>General Treasury of Social Security and the Social Institute
>For Sea Workers.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 00:02:52 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: school filter legislation
Message-ID: <83939ee93a7f8bf2a9dea3a90f96910a@anon.efga.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Filtering sex off the Net in schools 
By Reuters 
NEWS.COM 
February 10, 1998, 5:55 a.m. PT 
URL: http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,19002,00.html 

WASHINGTON--Senate Commerce Committee chairman John McCain 
(R-Arizona) and Sen. Ernest
Hollings (D-South Carolina), the ranking Democrat on the panel, 
introduced a bill yesterday to protect children
from sexually explicit materials on the Internet at school and in 
the library. 

The Commerce committee will hold a hearing on indecency on the 
Internet today. 

The legislation would force schools and libraries to filter or 
block access to some Internet sites in order to
qualify for billions of dollars of federal subsidies aimed at 
bringing more computers into classrooms and public
libraries. 

Under the legislation, schools would have to certify with the 
Federal Communications Commission that they
are using or will use a filtering device on computers with 
Internet access so that students will not be able to
access sexually explicit or other materials deemed "harmful." 

A school would not be eligible to receive government subsidies 
for universal access to the Internet unless it
met those conditions. 

To qualify for the subsidies, libraries would be required to use 
a filtering system on one or more of their
computers so that at least one computer would be "suitable for 
minors' use," McCain's office said. 

"The prevention lies not in censoring what goes on the Internet, 
but rather in filtering what comes out of it onto
the computers our children use outside the home," McCain said. 

In a speech on the Senate floor introducing the measure, McCain 
noted that when the word "teen" was typed
into a Web search engine, a site about teen sex was the first 
search result to appear. 

Civil liberties groups have criticized efforts to filter access 
to materials available on the Internet, saying that
such technologies often block out data that children need to 
learn about AIDS prevention and find support for
depression and issues related to their sexuality. 

Hollings said the legislation gave schools and libraries "an 
added financial incentive to filter children's access
to the Internet," adding, "We must tackle this problem of 
children innocently stumbling onto indecent material
while using the Web for legitimate research purposes or face dire 
consequences." 

Under the legislation, school and library administrators would be 
free to choose any filtering or blocking
system that would best fit their community standards and local 
needs. 

The bill forbids the federal government from making "qualitative 
judgments about the system a school or
library has chosen to implement," according to a summary. 

Sen. Dan Coats (R-Indiana) and Sen. Patty Murray (D-Washington) 
are also sponsoring the legislation. 

Story Copyright (r) 1998 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved. 


 Go to  Front Door   |   The Net   |   Search   |   Short takes  
 |   One Week View 

  
 Copyright (r) 1995-98 CNET, Inc. All rights reserved. 








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 03:13:48 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Sen. Feinstein explains why she supports crypto-restrictions
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 11:00:33 -0800 (PST)
From: Declan McCullagh 
To: politech@vorlon.mit.edu
Subject: Sen. Feinstein explains why she supports crypto-restrictions



---------- Forwarded message ----------

Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 20:15:42 -0800
From: Christopher Allen 
Subject: Re: Letter to Senator Dianne Feinstein

I received a response to the "Letter to Senator Feinstein" today. It reads
as follows:


February 3, 1998

Mr. Christopher Allen
President and CEO
Consensus Development Corporation
2930 Shattuck Avenue
Suite 206
Berkeley, California  94705

Dear Mr. Allen

	This is in response to a January 16th unsigned letter from a group
of high technology companies on encryption policy. 

	In this letter, you urge me to meet regularly with representatives
from the companies who sent the letter. I want to assure you that both I
and my staff do meet regularly with executives from California firms who
are concerned about all aspects of our government's laws and policies
regarding the high tech industry. Indeed, I cannot recall ever rejecting a
request for a meeting with a CEO on the issue of encryption or other
matters of great import. 

	Should you or any of your co-signers wish to meet with me, please
just call my or my scheduler, Trevor Daley at 202/224-9636. 

	With regards to my position on encryption, I have no one solution
that I favor, included mandated key recovery. However, I am concerned that
whatever solution is devised must provide solutions to the issues raised
by FBI Director Louis Freeh, which have been reinforced by classified
briefings and public hearings that I have attended. 

	Should you have any additional questions about my views on
encryption please review a Question & Answer interview I gave to the San
Jose Mercury News last September. My answers, though general in nature,
accurately set forth my thinking. However I recognize the complicated
nature of encryption and am eager to hear industry proposals. I look
forward to a continuing dialogue on this issue with you and your
colleagues. 

	With warmest personal regards.

	Sincerely yours,

	Dianne Feinstein
	United States Senator

DF:seg

(enclosure: "Why Feinstein is supporting encryption curbs", San Jose
Mercury News, Monday, September 15th, 1997, page 1E)

------------------------------------------------------------------------
...            ** NOTE NEW OFFICE ADDRESS & PHONE NUMBER **            ..
... Christopher Allen                Consensus Development Corporation ..
... President & CTO                            2930 Shattuck Ave. #206 ..
...                Berkeley, CA 94705-1883 ..
...             o510/649-3300  f510/649-3301 ..








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 03:27:18 +0800
To: Alan Tu 
Subject: Re: Algorithms used in PGP 5.x; Relative strength of Blowfish
In-Reply-To: <199802092337_MC2-32B1-60F5@compuserve.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980210111529.007b75a0@otc.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 11:36 PM 2/9/98 -0500, Alan Tu wrote:
>anything besides 3DES and IDEA, what are their relative strengths to 3DES
>or IDEA? 

Before you can measure something's strength, you have to define
the stress.  Are you twisting it or bending it?  Compressing or pulling?

Are you trying an exhaustive keyspace search?
Are you trying to find a weak key?  Or some information leaking through?
Can you pick the plaintext to put through the system, and twiddle bits?
Or does your adversary only have access to some plain + cipher pairs?

None of the algorithms has been shot out of the water.  All of them annoy
statists, since
they can use more bits than is convenient to search through.  That's why
40-bit
anything is laughable.  

>Also, what's the relative strength of Blowfish to 3DES or IDEA?  Its key
>length is variable, as I recall.  Could someone tell me the range?

3DES uses 3 x 56 bits of user key, 56 bits being the DES keylength, defined
by the Feds
by neutering IBM's Lucifer system.  DES uses some fixed tables with unknown
(but upon investigation, apparently good) properties.

Blowfish uses over 4Kbytes of internal key, derived from a user-key
of up to 448 bits by mixing the user-key with random digits in a
computationally
expensive way that slows keysearch.  

Both Blowfish and DES are based on Feistel networks, ie, iterations
of rounds containing permutations, substitutions, addition and xors,
including data-dependant operations (ie, one fraction of the input data
(as well as the user's key, or derivations thereof) modifies the other
fraction in each round).  The 'fractions' are usually halves, but
unbalanced feistel networks have been studied too (e.g., McGuffin
algorithm).  BF was
designed with modern 32-bit cpus (and their cache sizes) in mind.
3-DES is a temporary kludge.

IDEA doesn't use tables, but uses the shift operator which the others
don't.  This is 
newer (less historical scrutiny) than DES or BF's structure.  IDEA is
patented, the
others aren't.

You should find the papers on these, there's descriptions and code
on line.




------------------------------------------------------------
      David Honig                   Orbit Technology
     honig@otc.net                  Intaanetto Jigyoubu

		Lewinsky for President '2012




	















From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Kent Crispin 
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 03:48:35 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Soft Tempest
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <19980210113051.14971@songbird.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Mon, Feb 09, 1998 at 09:31:05AM -0800, David Honig wrote:
> At 10:14 PM 2/8/98 -0800, Tim May wrote:
> >At 9:19 PM -0800 2/8/98, Ryan Lackey wrote:
> >
> >
> >The physics suggests just the opposite: the RF emissions from laptops are
> >expected to be lower from first principles, and, I have heard, are
> >measurably much lower. (I say "have heard" because I don't have any access
> >to RF measurement equipment...I once spent many hours a day working inside
> >a Faraday cage, but that was many years ago.)
> ...later...
> >But before going this route, I'd want to see some measurements. Laptops
> >might already be "quiet enough." (Measurements are needed to determine the
> >effectiveness of any proposed RF shielding anyway, so....)
> 
> The interference that laptops can cause with avionics is 
> prima facie evidence that laptops are not quiet.

Even palmtops are quite noisy, in fact.

-- 
Kent Crispin, PAB Chair			"No reason to get excited",
kent@songbird.com			the thief he kindly spoke...
PGP fingerprint:   B1 8B 72 ED 55 21 5E 44  61 F4 58 0F 72 10 65 55
http://songbird.com/kent/pgp_key.html





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 01:51:08 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: [Fwd: The Caldera lawsuit vs MS: alive and well] (fwd)
Message-ID: <199802101750.LAA03216@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:
>From owner-alg-l@lists.io.com Tue Feb 10 11:24:16 1998
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Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 11:23:40 -0600
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Subject: [Fwd: The Caldera lawsuit vs MS: alive and well]
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Personal note: This amendment appears to be fairly significant. 
Previously, the suit was only against practises related to MS-DOS;  now
Windows95 and 3.1 are part of the deal. 

At this point a settlement seems unlikely; November could be a *real*
interesting month.

- Evan

-----------------------------------------------------------------

FEDERAL COURT ALLOWS CALDERA TO FILE AMENDED ANTITRUST COMPLAINT AGAINST
MICROSOFT

Nation's Only Private Antitrust Lawsuit Against Microsoft Adds Claim that
Microsoft Illegally Tied MS-DOS Into Windows 95


Orem, UT -- Feb 10, 1998 -- The Federal Court hearing Caldera's antitrust
lawsuit against Microsoft has agreed to allow Caldera to amend its
complaint and introduce evidence at trial that Microsoft illegally created
a technical tie of MS-DOS into Windows 95. Caldera claims that the
unnecessary technical tie of MS-DOS into Windows 95 artificially created
an impression that DOS on the desktop was dead. In court, Caldera will
show that this act and other practices illegally eliminated competition to
MS-DOS. This latest court decision allows Caldera to extend its claims of
illegal behavior and its request for financial damages to include both
historical and existing practices. With this amendment, the courts are
allowing Caldera to include consideration of Microsoft's Windows 95,
Windows 3.1 and MS-DOS market shares when calculating both the industry
effect of Microsoft's alleged monopolistic practices and the financial
damages being sought by Caldera. 

"This amendment to our antitrust case is not about the benefits or
features of Windows -- it is about an illegal tie of MS-DOS into Windows
95. We allege Microsoft created this illegal, artificial tie for the
dominant purpose of eliminating competition," said Bryan Sparks, President
and CEO of Caldera.  "The evidence we have to support this new claim
coupled with the evidence we have to support our other claims extends our
conviction that we will win." 

Caldera can demonstrate that Windows 95 runs on DR-DOS, Caldera's version
of DOS, demonstrating that no technological dependency exists between MS-DOS
and Windows 95. In court, Caldera will use this fact to prove that the
unnecessary tie between MS-DOS and Windows 95 is one of the many illegal and
predatory tactics Microsoft has used and continues to use to maintain its
desktop monopoly power.

In November 1997, the court denied Microsoft's motion to change the venue
of Caldera's trial from Salt Lake City, Utah, to Seattle, Washington. This
case is currently scheduled for jury trial in November 1998 in Federal Court
located in Salt Lake City, Utah.




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 05:02:08 +0800
To: "WebWarrior3@InfoWar.Com>
Subject: Re: Cyber 'Nannys"
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 10:38 AM -0800 2/10/98, WebWarrior3@InfoWar.Com wrote:

>When you purchase or sell anything you enter into a contract with the
>other party,
>hence:UNIFORM COMMERCIAL CODE Article 21) In this Article unless the context
>otherwise requires "contract" and "agreement" are limited to those
>relating to the
>present or future sale of goods. "Contract for sale" includes both a
>present sale
>of goods and a contract to sell goods at a future time. A "sale" consists
>in the
>passing of title from the seller to the buyer for a price (Section 2-401). A
>"present sale" means a sale which is accomplished by the making of the
>contract.
mer Protection Laws."

I suppose that your point is that the UCC somehow relates to your argument
that filtering companies must supply customers with their filtering
criteria?

This is a serious distortion of the UCC, and, if applied, would mean:

-- a chip company would have to provide the internal workings of chips
sold, else they would be violating the disclosure laws

-- a restaurant critic (analagous to a net.nanny filter, essentially) would
have to provide access to his selection criteria

-- the editor of any magazine or newspaper would have to explain his
reasons for reporting some stories and not others, for including some
editorial remarks and not others, and so on.

My point about "absent a contract" is that sometimes there _are_
arrangements to supply internal workings of chips, restaurant selection
criteria, etc. If there are such arrangements, then a customer can sue to
get performance. But absent such prearrangements, a customer cannot
generally demand information on how products were built, on what went into
them, and so on.

A customer of Cyber Sitter or Net Nanny is free to ask the companies
involved what their criteria are, just as  in the above cases he may ask
the companies for more details. But if these companies decline to give
trade secret information, or information they choose for whatever reason to
keep to themselves, there is no recourse.

Except in a few cases (wrongly, I believe) involving food and drug
products, under FDA rules. Importantly, there are absolutely no such
requirements for labelling of "speech," or editorial decisions, which is
precisely the service being provided by Cyber Sitter and Net Nanny types of
services.

I believe any attempts to force, through law, the disclosure of editorial
selection criteria would quickly be struck down by the courts as a
violation of the First Amendment.

(Except in the usual cases involving recommendations about drugs, health
benefits, etc. And, no, I don't believe "psychological health" could be a
justifiable reason for the courts to accept laws forcing editors to
disclose their selection criteria.)

Face it, Cyber Sitter is saying "We think these are sites your child can
visit. " Forcing them to disclose their criteria--or even forcing them to
list all sites they disapprove of--is an infringement on their editorial
rights.

(And please don't anybody cite "commerce" as a justification...it hasn't
been a justification to regulate the speech of newspapers, publishers, or
other commercial ventures....)

--Tim May

Just Say No to "Big Brother Inside"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^3,021,377   | black markets, collapse of governments.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 03:01:58 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: TEMPEST (fwd)
Message-ID: <199802101901.NAA04520@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Subject: Re: TEMPEST
> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 18:32:28 +0000
> From: Markus Kuhn 

> You might want to consider to read van Ecks paper yourself:
> 
>   Wim van Eck: Electromagnetic Radiation from Video Display Units: An
>   Eavesdropping Risk? Computers & Security 4 (1985) 269--286
> 
> If you don't have C&S in your library, you might also find a
> scan on 

I read the paper when it came out, but that's been a while now..:)

Thanks for the reference, I'll take a look at it over the next few days.

> > As I alluded to with the comment I made about integrating the received
> > signals. The easiest way to do this sort of stuff with a small budget is
> > with a flying capacitor integrator.
> 
> Please explain! I was more thinking in terms of digitizing everything
> and solving large per-pixel systems of equations to separate the drifting
> images, which does not sound much like something equivalent to a
> single hardware integrator, but more like something that keeps a
> workstation very busy for a few minutes.

I'll describe how it works in hardware and then how I've done it in
software.

Hardware:

You have a bank of n capacitors that are hooked to a amplifier via a
mux. You use a counter that you start with some sort of trigger that
sequentialy connects each cap in turn to the amplifier. The charge and as
a consequence the voltage varies depending upon whether the new voltage is
higher or lower than the last sample. The assumption being that the signal
itself is time invariant and that the variations in signal strength are
noise and random in nature. After only 3-4 cycles through the cap bank you
begin to pull a workable signal out of the noise. The nice thing is that
this works for signals that are below the noise floor and buried in the
grass.

In a VanEck monitoring situation you'd need a bank of n capacitors where n
is the number of horizontal pixels. You will also need to array each bank
into a m row matrix where m is the number of scan lines. You can get around
some of the bulk by using a gyrator circuit to synthesize the capacitor and
some sample-and-holds to synthesize the array.

The advantage here over software is that this signal can be sampled as its
built in real-time (use instrumentation amps) unless you happen to have
dual-port ram in your computer (I've never had access to such hardware) and
fed to whatever equipment you want to process it.

Software:

You take a A/D converter and drive an array with it. You sync it the same
sort of way as the hardware methods above. Each element in the array
contains the current estimate for that particular sample of the total
waveform. Each time you come back to the same array element you compare the
last value to the new value. You take the value that is half-way between the
two and store that as the new array value for the next cycle. In short order
a signal comes out.

Either the hardware or software method will naturaly integrate the signal
within the sample window because of the capacitor effect. This compensates
for clock and signal jitter quite nicely.

This method will require a D/A conversion process if you want to feed it
to any external equipment. Though it should be perfect for Van Eck
monitoring. Simply use your video frame buffer as your sample storage array.

Enjoy.


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |                   The obvious is sometimes false;                  |
   |                   The unexpected sometimes true.                   |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                       Anonymous                    |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 02:20:12 +0800
To: Tim May 
Subject: RE: Cyber 'Nannys"
In-Reply-To: <34DF87FE.611AA4EF@InfoWar.Com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Some of my articles are at:

  http://cgi.pathfinder.com/netly/spoofcentral/censored/

As for the market, it's already deciding. NetNanny does NOT encrypt its
list of blocked sites and is using that as a competitive advantage.

-Declan

At 23:23 -0800 2/9/98, Tim May wrote:
>At 2:49 PM -0800 2/9/98, WebWarrior3@InfoWar.Com wrote:
>
>>While I do not disagree that these companies should be able to market
>>their products, I wholeheartedly disagree with the fact that often their
>>customers (the adults who bought the software or subscribed to he
>>'service') are not allowed to have a list of what is actually blocked,
>
>So you wholeheartedly disagree that they are not giving you a list of what
>is blocked...so go use another service.
>
>I don't mean to be flippant. At issue here is a very real issue of free
>choice and contracts. Customers cannot "demand" a list of criteria for
>blocked sites any more than customers can demand a list of the selection
>criteria a bookstore uses, or a magazine editor uses, and so on.
>
>I make fun of Cyber Sitter and other Net.Nannies, but there's no role for
>"disagreeing with the fact" (whatever that infelicitous expression may
>mean) that they usually don't publicize their criteria.
>
>If you can figure out their criteria, great. Brock Meeks and Declan M.
>figured out some criteria a while back in an interesting article. But make
>sure that your "disagreeing with the fact" is not translated into calling
>for disclosure laws. That way lies statism.
>
>--Tim May
>
>
>Just Say No to "Big Brother Inside"
>---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
>Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
>ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
>W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
>Higher Power: 2^3,021,377   | black markets, collapse of governments.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 02:26:13 +0800
To: "WebWarrior3@InfoWar.Com>
Subject: Re: Cyber 'Nannys"
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



There are many bad laws on the books. Doesn't mean they're good ones,
WebWarrior3.

Many "consumer protection" laws in truth hurt consumers through more
government regulation, reduced competition, and higher prices.

-Declan


At 03:40 -0500 2/10/98, WebWarrior3@InfoWar.Com wrote:
>Ever hear of consumer protection laws? There are many cases where consumers
>are allowed to "demand" information regarding their purchases...you were being
>flippant. One subscribes to a magazine because one knows what the focus of the
>content is and one chooses to receive that periodical; not because the
>magazine MAY have an editorial policy to not cover any stories on the
>"Oddities of Toenail Fungus in Bleached Blonde Yaks from Manhattan."

>There are already consumer protection laws.  I don't think that this is a
>concentration of extensive economic controls in the State, do you?  Really,
>Tim...
>
>It is neither my option nor is it my responsibility to change someone's little
>paranoid mind should they confuse consumer protection with statism, that is a
>job for a psychiatrist or a professor.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "WebWarrior3@InfoWar.Com" 
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 02:47:11 +0800
To: Tim May 
Subject: Re: Cyber 'Nannys"
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <34E09E8A.73AF7CAB@InfoWar.Com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





Tim May wrote:

> As far as I'm concerned, absent a contract, anyone who "demands" something
> from me is on thin ice.

When you purchase or sell anything you enter into a contract with the other party,
hence:UNIFORM COMMERCIAL CODE Article 21) In this Article unless the context
otherwise requires "contract" and "agreement" are limited to those relating to the
present or future sale of goods. "Contract for sale" includes both a present sale
of goods and a contract to sell goods at a future time. A "sale" consists in the
passing of title from the seller to the buyer for a price (Section 2-401). A
"present sale" means a sale which is accomplished by the making of the contract.

As far as I can tell, every state other than Louisianna have accepted the UCC as
their state business law.  Additionally, many states have a law similar to:

Deceptive Practices SDCL 37-24-6

It is a violation of state law:
(2) To knowingly and intentionally conceal, suppress or omit any material fact in
connection with the sale or advertisement of merchandise.

> Like I said, if you're unhappy that CyberSitter or NetNanny will not
> provide you with information you wish to have, use another service.

I never implied that I would use such trash...I trust that my eight year old my
daughter understands what to do if she comes across something that is not
appropriate for her viewing as far as our family values are concerned. Thanks you
for permission, however, should I ever feel the need to allow a corporation to be
(in your terms) Big Brother to my daughter, I will feel justified in that you have
personally given me the leave to do so.

> But don't cite "Consumer Protection Laws."

Why not?

Scott R. Brower
http://www.infowar.com
http://www.efflorida.org






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 03:37:16 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Fourier & Signal Analysis...
Message-ID: <199802101939.NAA05111@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Hi,

There is one final point I would like to make regarding at least one comment
on Fourier Analysis of signals in a noisy environment.

Fourier signal analysis is not good for this sort of stuff, what you want is
a function called a Laplace Transform.

Fourier is a method to take a complex signal and break it down into
component trigonometric functions (eg sin) such that we can apply filtering
and other frequency dependant operations to the signal to improve the
signals characteristic signature or operate on a particular component (ie a
component that is resonating with something and decreasing the s/n ratio -
ringing on a pulse edge for example).

If you want to find a signal in the noise you want to apply a Laplace. What
it does is convert the amplitude-time variant signal (ie f(t)) into a
power-frequency variant signal (ie f(s)). What this does is take, for example,
a sample of a signal and describe how that signals power is divided between
the various frequencies in that signal (eg McLauren Series). In most
applications the grass of the signal will be evenly distributed across the
s-mapping while the signal (at least its carrier component) itself will show
up as a spike of noticeable amplitude. The reason you do this in signal
analysis is because that transormation function will often be a simpler
equation to solve numericaly that actualy trying to deal with f(t).

So, if you want to find a signal in a complex environment use a Laplace
Transform, once you've found the signal and want to know about its
components use a Fourier Transform.

Good hunting!


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |                   The obvious is sometimes false;                  |
   |                   The unexpected sometimes true.                   |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                       Anonymous                    |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "James A. Donald" 
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 05:56:33 +0800
To: Tim May 
Subject: Blind signatures dead in the water.  What now?
Message-ID: <199802102142.NAA10762@proxy3.ba.best.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



    --
At 09:25 AM 2/9/98 -0800, Tim May wrote:
> Sadly, the ideas of David Chaum are more needed than ever,
> but his stuff is essentially nowhere to be seen. (To
> reflect Lucky's comments back to him,
> :-), spare us any citations of how Mark Twain Bank will let
> :some people
> open a cumbersome Digicash account.)

Why are blind signatures dead in the water?

One obvious reason is that people attempting to do business
with  David Chaum seem to get rather irritable.

Still, despite that, Digicash actually exists, but no one
uses it.

One reason is that the network to convert Digicash into
other forms of value is rather limited, whereas the credit
card network is fast and spans the world.

Another is that people do not wish to hold large amounts of
Digicash] for long periods, (security, no interest) and
converting money back and forth between interest bearing
forms and Digicash attracts  rather high charges. (Or used to
attract rather high charges when last I looked.)

So where do we go from here?

One obvious solution is nymous money-- money that is not
anonymous, but is not required to be connected to one's
government approved and  registered name either.  This is
arguably better than the half-anonymous  money that has in
fact been implemented by Digicash.

What nymous money projects are happening, and how are they
going? 

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     LYaOPLZKNwSNWeffnb7uS95ByY1zFrrw5ORiNblo
     4jCWkLjLNXwKCdAtmb4IoOno/9n7A5bv6OhoyZ2Ki
 ---------------------------------------------------------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because of 
the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this right, 
not from the arbitrary power of the state.

http://www.jim.com/jamesd/





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "James A. Donald" 
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 05:54:47 +0800
To: Adam Back 
Subject: Re: FCPUNX:time to learn chinese?
Message-ID: <199802102142.NAA10766@proxy3.ba.best.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



    --
At 10:24 PM 2/9/98 GMT, Adam Back wrote:
> The interesting aspect of her speculation was on the
> possibility of an economic and political process of change
> which would result in a transition directly from communism
> to a free market based political system, by-passing
> democracy and socialism.  She viewed democracy and 
> socialism as mistakes made by the west to be learned from
> and avoided.

In other words, instead of China taking over Hong Kong, Hong
Kong takes over China.

We shall see.

Right now Hong Kong is being run by some rich capitalist
chinese.

(What else is new, you may ask)

The problem with such systems is that they are vulnerable to
the same disease that struck down Venice.  Rich merchants
aquire state power, soon are tempted by the easy and safe
returns from confiscation and taxation, rather than the
difficulty and risk of commerce, soon become aristocrats,
equally contemptuous of the poor, of real businessmen, and of
earning an honest living. 

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     f/S+Mn40UqaSQjsUULlWtwVMEkmnupDDQNCEyHSC
     44TB2tTSr9ueaMq5FhuDDot2crWmnd7SePUYV0Qux
 ---------------------------------------------------------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because of 
the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this right, 
not from the arbitrary power of the state.

http://www.jim.com/jamesd/





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 03:51:29 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: VanEck, Noise, & Palmtops...
Message-ID: <199802101949.NAA05309@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Hi,

Palmtops are noisy, this is bad for Van Eck. Van Eck relies on the fact that
the device is emitting display signals significantly above the noise floor
or that there is a method to pull that signal out of the noise.

Considering the power draw of palmtops, while they are noisy they are also
very low power. My guestimate on emitted rf is in the micro-watt range. That
means for a succesful intercept the receiver would need to be in most
situation within feet of the device. It'd be much simpler to simply ask to
see the PDA because you were thinking of buying one than lugging all that
obvious equipment around...

If you want to defeat Van Eck you want either very quite or you want lots of
noise smoothly distributed across the rf spectrum.


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |                   The obvious is sometimes false;                  |
   |                   The unexpected sometimes true.                   |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                       Anonymous                    |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "WebWarrior3@InfoWar.Com" 
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 03:06:49 +0800
To: Declan McCullagh 
Subject: Re: Cyber 'Nannys"
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <34E0A2B9.F4F4AFA0@InfoWar.Com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Declan McCullagh wrote:

> There are many bad laws on the books. Doesn't mean they're good ones,
> WebWarrior3.
>
> Many "consumer protection" laws in truth hurt consumers through more
> government regulation, reduced competition, and higher prices.
>
> -Declan
>

I do not claim to be a specialist in consumer protection and you may be right that
there are many laws that end up hurting consumers.  I don't know of any, but they
may be there...You mentioned:

Government regulation, as in your car or kerosene heater has to meet certain
criteria before it is sold?

Reduced competition, as in the case where a company wants to produce an item that
is unsafe or does not do what it is supposed to and is not allowed to market it?

Higher prices--I would rather pay a higher price and know that if the product does
not perform as indicated or purported I have recourse than pay less for a product
that does not work and end up being stuck with it.  Ya get what ya pay for (not
including taxes) generally, or you get what you can afford as the case may be. I
seriously doubt that consumer protection laws have kept anyone from being able to
afford a product they would have otherwise been able to enjoy.

Scott R. Brower
http://www.infowar.com
http://www.efflorida.org





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 03:31:07 +0800
To: "Michael Sims" 
Subject: "Corporations selling your ass down the road for a dollar"
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 13:56 -0400 2/10/98, Michael Sims wrote:
>I am aghast.  Why not just pull some "facts" from the National
>Enquirer or another equally reputable source?
>
>I would ask Declan how the hearings went but I suspect there'll be a
>Netly piece involved.

Yep, I'll probably write about this. There are three, maybe four, other
Net-related hearings today, which I won't be able to go to, unfortunately.

>None of this is news to Declan of course.  I just get disappointed
>when I see industry mouthpiece after industry mouthpiece without a
>single goal in mind except maximum profit.  Libertarianism in
>action - corporations sell your ass down the road for a dollar and
>some stock options.

I'm sure Michael was upset and not typing clearly. He knows as well as
anyone that libertarians are not pro-business; they're pro-individual
rights. Libertarians spend quite a bit of time complaining about the
Republican habit of funding corporate subsidies.

The pursuit of profit in the free market is not to be discouraged --
without it, we wouldn't have the Internet we have today. Rather, we should
be suspicious of the intersection between the government and the market in
Congress and in federal agencies. I've written elsewhere about the dangers
of industry sellouts on civil liberties -- sellouts and compromises which
are of course opposed by libertarians.

The libertarian Cato Institute opposes the McCain bill at issue in this
hearing.

-Declan






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Marc Dacier" 
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 22:25:54 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: CFP - Recent Advances in Intrusion Detection (RAID'98)
Message-ID: <9802101505.ZM25870@zurich.ibm.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



		   Call For Participation - RAID'98

		 First International Workshop on the
		Recent Advances in Intrusion Detection

			September 14-15, 1998
		      Louvain-la-Neuve, Belgium

We solicit your participation in the first International Workshop on
the Recent Advances in Intrusion Detection.  This workshop, the first
in an anticipated annual series, will bring together leading figures
from academia, government, and industry to talk about the current
state of intrusion detection technologies and paradigms from the
research and commercial perspectives.

Research into and development of automated intrusion detection systems
(IDS) has been under way for nearly 10 years.  In that time, only a
few systems have been widely deployed in the commercial or government
arena (e.g., DIDS, NADIR, NetRanger, Stalker).  All are limited in
what they do.  At the same time, the numerous research systems
developed have been more engineering than scientific efforts, with
scant quantitative performance figures.  As we survey the field of
automated intrusion detection, we are faced with many questions:

1) What *research* questions have yet to be answered about IDS?
2) What are the open questions, limitations, and fundamental concerns
about existing intrusion detection methodologies?
3) What metrics shall we use to measure IDS performance and thus
compare different IDSes? These measurements should highlight the
successes and expose the limitations of current IDS approaches.
4) What factors are inhibiting transfer of research ideas into
functional deployed IDSes?  How can those be addressed?
5) What is the role of a deployed IDS? How should or can it fit in
with other security systems?
6) What are the typical operating environments and policies in which
IDSes are used?
7) What are the challenges for IDSes in very large environments, such
as the Internet?
8) Is it time to be thinking about IDS standards? What are the
advantages and disadvantages of standardizing components of IDS?  What
forums (e.g., IETF, ISO) would be appropriate for pursuing such
standards?
9) What are the problems of turning the results of intrusion detection
tools into legally reliable evidence?  What are the problems of
admissibility and of court-room presentation?

We invite proposals and panels that explore these questions or any
other aspect of automated intrusion detection. We especially solicit
proposals and panels that address:

1) New results related to intrusion detection methodologies and
technologies.
2) Innovative ways of thinking about intrusion detection; for example,
the applicability of R&D in the fields of survivable and/or dependable
systems, data mining, etc.
3) User experiences and lessons learned from fielded intrusion
detection systems.
4) IDS for emerging computer environments (e.g., Java, CORBA, NT ).
5) Commercial intrusion detection systems.

We have scheduled RAID'98 immediately before ESORICS'98, at the same
time as CARDIS'98, and at the same location as both of these
conferences. This provides a unique opportunity for the members of
these distinct, yet related, communities to participate in all these
events and meet and share ideas during joined organized external
events.

INSTRUCTIONS:

Proposals for presentations must include a title followed by an
abstract that is a maximum of 600 words in length.  The presenter may
include a full paper with the abstract, and will have either 15 or 30
minutes (including questions) for the talk.

Panel proposals should include a title, proposed chair, tentative
panelists, a description (under 300 words), format of the
presentation, and short rationale for the panel.  Panel sessions must
fit into one hour time slots.

Each proposed participant must include his or her name, organization,
position, e-mail address, facsimile and telephone number, and a brief
biography.

All proposals must be in English.  Plan to give all panels and talks
in English.

We must receive all proposals before June 15, 1998.  We strongly
prefer they be submitted by e-mail to raid98@zurich.ibm.com.  Various
formats (ASCII, postscript, Word, WordPro, Framemaker, and LaTex) are
acceptable.  If necessary, hardcopy proposals may be sent to:

Marc Dacier
Global Security Analysis Lab
IBM Zurich Research Laboratory
Saeumerstrasse 4, CH-8803 Rueschlikon, Switzerland

IMPORTANT DATES:
----------------
Deadline for submission:                   June 15, 1998
Notification of acceptance or rejection:   August 1, 1998

GENERAL CO-CHAIRS:
------------------
Marc Dacier (IBM Zurich Research Laboratory, Switzerland)
Kathleen A. Jackson (Los Alamos National Laboratory, USA)

PROGRAM COMMITTEE:
------------------
Matt Bishop (University of California at Davis, USA)
Dick Brackney (National Security Agency, USA)
Yves Deswarte (LAAS-CNRS & INRIA, France)
Baudouin Le Charlier (Universite de Namur, Belgium)
Stuart Staniford-Chen (University of California at Davis, USA)
Rowena Chester (University of Tennessee, USA)
Deborah Frincke (University of Idaho, USA)
Tim Grance (National Institute of Standards and Technology, USA)
Sokratis Katsikas (University of Athens, University of Aegeans, Greece)
Jean-Jacques Quisquater (Universite Catholique de Louvain, Belgium)
Mark Schneider (National Security Agency, USA)
Peter Sommer (London School of Economics & Political Science, England)
Steve Smaha (Trusted Information Systems, USA)
Gene Spafford (Purdue University, USA)
Chris Wee (University of California at Davis, USA)
Kevin Ziese (WheelGroup Corporation, USA)

For further information contact one of the General Co-chairs:

Marc Dacier                     Kathleen A. Jackson
IBM Zurich Research Laboratory  Los Alamos National Laboratory
Switzerland                     USA
E-mail: dac@zurich.ibm.com      E-mail: kaj@lanl.gov
Tel.: +41-1-724-85-62           Tel.: +1-505/667-5927
Fax.: +41-1-724-89-53           Fax: +1-505/665-5220

More information will be available at:
.

Information about ESORICS'98 is available at:
ESORICS 98 home page: 
ESORICS series home page: 
Note: Papers and panel proposals for ESORICS'98 are due before February
28,
1998.

Information about CARDIS'98 will be available at:



-- 
Marc Dacier
Mgr. Global Security Analysis Lab (GSAL)
IBM Zurich Research Laboratory
Saeumerstrasse 4 -    CH-8803 Rueschlikon  -   Switzerland
E-mail: dac@zurich.ibm.com   Tel.:+41-1-724-85-62     Fax.:+41-1-724-89-53





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "James A. Donald" 
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 07:30:19 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: FCPUNX:comp.html
Message-ID: <199802102310.PAA18375@proxy3.ba.best.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



    --
At 03:14 PM 1/28/98 -0600, Jim Choate wrote:
>   Recently, an algorithm was developed for factoring
>   numbers on a quantum computer which runs in steps where
>   is small [1]. This is roughly quadratic in the input
>   size, so factoring a 1000 digit number with such an
>   algorithm would require only a few million steps. The 
>   implication is that public key cryptosystems based on
>   factoring may be breakable.

However quantum computers so far envisaged (but not yet
built) can only do a few steps before they lose quantum 
coherence.

So far factoring a four bit number is well beyond the state
of the art in quantum computation. 

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     W7fOL2Uec3TpIWpLT+xcgrKGVfoQL3gmNdcADrkN
     41SXVwnn/Gy+C42ptPxygaLgt1miSt2a1T/6/b9p8
 ---------------------------------------------------------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because of 
the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this right, 
not from the arbitrary power of the state.

http://www.jim.com/jamesd/





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 23:23:34 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Driver Licenses
In-Reply-To: <199802100200.VAA03490@deathstar.jabberwock.org>
Message-ID: <199802101512.QAA11271@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



D'jinnie asked:

> Why are religions, no matter how kooky, respected so much??
> 

Amendment I.  Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of
religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the
freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably
to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Ross Wright" 
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 08:27:31 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Who are the "digerati"?
Message-ID: <199802110014.QAA25295@rigel.cyberpass.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



http://www.edge.org/digerati/index.html

Have you guys seen this?  Any comments?  I thought it was pretty 
interesting.

Ross

=-=-=-=-=-=-
Ross Wright
King Media: Bulk Sales of Software Media and Duplication Services
http://ross.adnetsol.com
Voice: (408) 259-2795





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "WebWarrior3@InfoWar.Com" 
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 05:38:03 +0800
To: Tim May 
Subject: Re: Cyber 'Nannys"
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <34E0C6DD.250A38FB@InfoWar.Com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





Tim May wrote:

> I suppose that your point is that the UCC somehow relates to your argument
> that filtering companies must supply customers with their filtering
> criteria?
>
> This is a serious distortion of the UCC, and, if applied, would mean:
>
> -- a chip company would have to provide the internal workings of chips
> sold, else they would be violating the disclosure laws

I hardly think that the parameters they choose to use can be construed as a trade
secret.

> -- a restaurant critic (analagous to a net.nanny filter, essentially) would
> have to provide access to his selection criteria

Restaurant critics do supply criteria, this, once again, is not a trade secret.
What is more, this is not analogous to filtering packages.  A critic will provide
information on both what he or she likes and dislikes as well as the location and
name of the restaurant.  They make recommendations which their 'readers' (not
customers) can choose to follow or ignore.

> -- the editor of any magazine or newspaper would have to explain his
> reasons for reporting some stories and not others, for including some
> editorial remarks and not others, and so on.

As I said before, when one subscribes to a periodical, one has a good idea of
what is within their editorial policy.  It would be unreasonable to expect a
publisher to provide every potential story.  Whereas, it would not be
unreasonable to expect a magazine on Anthropology to publish an article on a
recent discovery of major scientific import.

> My point about "absent a contract" is that sometimes there _are_
> arrangements to supply internal workings of chips, restaurant selection
> criteria, etc. If there are such arrangements, then a customer can sue to
> get performance. But absent such prearrangements, a customer cannot
> generally demand information on how products were built, on what went into
> them, and so on.

Equating a decision of what material is what is not acceptable  with the internal
schematics of chips is really far fetched.

People buy these packages (filtering software/services) with the understanding
that they will 'protect' their children from certain content.  Without being able
to look into what content is actually blocked a customer is being duped into a
false sense of security.  Additionally, they will never get to see what is
actually blocked.

> Except in a few cases (wrongly, I believe) involving food and drug
> products, under FDA rules.

So you don't think that ingredients should be labeled on pre-packaged food?
Shit, I guess you don't have any allergies.

> Importantly, there are absolutely no such
> requirements for labelling of "speech," or editorial decisions, which is
> precisely the service being provided by Cyber Sitter and Net Nanny types of
> services.

But CyberSitter ad Net Nanny DO label their editorial decisions by providing a
list of what TYPE of material they block, and as Declan pointed out, Net Nanny
provides a list.  They simply provide no proof that they actually do block sites
on any such basis.  The CyberSitter fiasco with Jonathan Wallace and Peacefire
last year is an example of material that is being blocked that does not fall into
line with their declared criteria.

> I believe any attempts to force, through law, the disclosure of editorial
> selection criteria would quickly be struck down by the courts as a
> violation of the First Amendment.

As stated above, they DO disclose the framework of their criteria, it is evidence
that these criteria are actually followed that is absent.

Scott R. Brower
http://www.infowar.com
http://www.efflorida.org





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Burnes 
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 07:51:30 +0800
To: "James A. Donald" 
Subject: Re: FCPUNX:time to learn chinese?
In-Reply-To: <199802102142.NAA10766@proxy3.ba.best.com>
Message-ID: <34E0E694.3A926DD5@ssds.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



James A. Donald wrote:
> The problem with such systems is that they are vulnerable to
> the same disease that struck down Venice.  Rich merchants
> aquire state power, soon are tempted by the easy and safe
> returns from confiscation and taxation, rather than the
> difficulty and risk of commerce, soon become aristocrats,
> equally contemptuous of the poor, of real businessmen, and of
> earning an honest living.
> 

Wouldn't that be fixed if the state lost its monopoly on
power?  Distribute power and the abusers can't have it
all.  While it may be easy to hookwink the masses with
propaganda (without internet/etc), once force monopoly
power withers it will be difficult to convince Joe Blow
to agree to something obviously not in his best interests.

Or something like that...

Jim





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Brian B. Riley" 
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 05:59:17 +0800
To: "CypherPunks List" 
Subject: Fwd: Social Security
Message-ID: <199802102151.QAA31482@mx02.together.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




---------------- Begin Forwarded Message ----------------
Date:        02/09  10:25 PM
Received:    02/09  10:29 PM
From:        James A Chappelow, chappja@mail.auburn.edu
Reply-To:    Vermont Libertarian, vtlp-list@catamount.com
To:          Multiple recipients of, vtlp-list@catamount.com

Outside of Birmingham, a kid was arrested Saturday for not giving a cop
his Social Security number. The bumper fell off his truck, so he stuck the
tag in the rear window; not a rare sight in Alabama. He got pulled over
for it. Alabama licenses have the holder's SSN on them (because that way
the state gets more Federal highway $), except his parents had never
applied to get him one, because of their religion. When the cop demanded
his SSN ("Deine Papieren!"), and he didn't tell him one, he was arrested
for disorderly conduct. He's still in jail because in order to bail him
out his parents had to supply their (guess what) SSNs.

Clinton recently declared his intention to use his supposed budget surplus
to save Social Security. In order to maintain Social Security payments, it
is estimated that combined Federal taxes will have to rise to 84% of
national income! Social Security is doomed as a retiremant option; there
is no reason for any able bodied citizen born after 1950 to ever expect to
see any benefits from it. So why should any of those people have SSNs?
Because securing retirement is not the real goal of Social Security.
However, it is still quite valuable as a means for tracking and
controlling people, and it looks like voluntary compliance is now being
strictly enforced. That's why Clinton wants to save Social Security.

James A. Chappelow


---------------------------------------------------
This message is from the VTLP-list (Vermont Libertarian) mailing list. To 
send
a message to everyone on this list send email to 
. To
unsubscribe from the list send email to  with
"unsubscribe vtlp-list" in the body of the message. To subscribe to the 
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send email to  with "subscribe vtlp-list your 
name" in
the body of the message.

 


----------------- End Forwarded Message -----------------

Brian B. Riley --> http://members.macconnect.com/~brianbr
 For PGP Keys  

 "Everyone has a photographic memory. Some just don't have film."






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 07:22:30 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: FCPUNX:comp.html (fwd)
Message-ID: <199802102323.RAA06408@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 15:10:08 -0800 (PST)
> From: "James A. Donald" 
> Subject: Re: FCPUNX:comp.html

> However quantum computers so far envisaged (but not yet
> built) can only do a few steps before they lose quantum 
> coherence.
> 
> So far factoring a four bit number is well beyond the state
> of the art in quantum computation. 

I only have two things to say to this:

 - This year.

 - Quantum Coupled Architectures


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |                   The obvious is sometimes false;                  |
   |                   The unexpected sometimes true.                   |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                       Anonymous                    |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Markus Kuhn 
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 02:40:58 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com
Subject: Re: TEMPEST
In-Reply-To: <199802100340.VAA27056@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate wrote on 1998-02-10 03:40 UTC:
> 11MHz base frequency won't produce a clean ring at 125MHz or 210MHz, they're
> not a whole number multiple of the base. How is this accounted for? What did
> he calculate the Q at? At what range was he picking up these harmonics as
> well as the base? The lower harmonic implies a 4MHz beat and the higher a
> 1MHz beat, how did he account for these signals? Personaly I would be more
> inclined to suspect the information was riding on the beats. He didn't
> happen to measure the frequencies to 3 decimal places did he?

You might want to consider to read van Ecks paper yourself:

  Wim van Eck: Electromagnetic Radiation from Video Display Units: An
  Eavesdropping Risk? Computers & Security 4 (1985) 269--286

If you don't have C&S in your library, you might also find a
scan on 

> > If you have only a van Eck style receiver, yes. But as soon as you record
> > the reception over some time and observe the images phases to drift only
> > slightly against each other, you might be able to separate them using
> > similar processing techniques as used in computer tomography.
> 
> As I alluded to with the comment I made about integrating the received
> signals. The easiest way to do this sort of stuff with a small budget is
> with a flying capacitor integrator.

Please explain! I was more thinking in terms of digitizing everything
and solving large per-pixel systems of equations to separate the drifting
images, which does not sound much like something equivalent to a
single hardware integrator, but more like something that keeps a
workstation very busy for a few minutes.

Markus

-- 
Markus G. Kuhn, Security Group, Computer Lab, Cambridge University, UK
email: mkuhn at acm.org,  home page: 






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Ray 
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 07:43:00 +0800
To: fight-censorship@vorlon.mit.edu
Subject: Re: "Corporations selling your ass down the road for a dollar"
Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980210183307.0a6fec02@pop.gate.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 02:28 PM 2/10/98 -0500, Declan McCullagh wrote:
...
>I'm sure Michael was upset and not typing clearly. He knows as well as
>anyone that libertarians are not pro-business; they're pro-individual
>rights. Libertarians spend quite a bit of time complaining about the
>Republican habit of funding corporate subsidies.
...

In view of his constant spewing of lies to the contrary, I'm beginning
to doubt that (and it isn't just the Republicans voting for corporate
welfare socialism, Democrats do it too).
JMR

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Version: 2.6.2
Comment: Freedom isn't Freeh.

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=EyXh
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Uhh...this is Joe [Randall Farmer]" 
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 13:16:56 +0800
Subject: re: Driver Licenses
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> 
> Either should work...I'll bet that scratching the shit off with his keys
> worked too ;)
> I'll have to remember that when it's time to get mine done.

Shouldn't take much if all you need is to stop regular folks from scanning 
it -- if it's like some other systems, changing a couple bits will keep the
checksum from checking and the reader will report the card as invalid. 

> 
> That was a good question, though, does anyone know how much data those
> little stripes can hold?

It can (emphasis on can; most stripes don't) store 300 bytes according to 
some -- 1846 characters of English in theory, 600 in practice, 480 uncompressed,
300 ASCII. 300 bytes is six monochrome compressed mugshots or a 2400-pixel
(about 50x50) uncompressed monochrome photo, or it could hold 33 military-grade
biometric IDs. A study of el33t h@qu3r ph1|ez show that actual credit and ATM
cards don't use nearly 300 bytes. That might be because error rates would be
astronomical, or it might just be because they can't use all the extra space. 

[After writing this, I saw another web site with a figure of 226 bytes, not
300. Don't know who's right, so I'm going with the paranoid estimate...]

> 
> Scott R. Brower
> http://www.infowar.com
> http://www.efflorida.org

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Randall Farmer
    rfarmer@hiwaay.net
    http://hiwaay.net/~rfarmer














From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Duncan Frissell 
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 08:21:01 +0800
To: "CypherPunks List" 
Subject: Re: Fwd: Social Security
In-Reply-To: <199802102151.QAA31482@mx02.together.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980210191727.035ea8a8@panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 04:51 PM 2/10/98 -0500, Brian B. Riley wrote:
>
>---------------- Begin Forwarded Message ----------------
>Date:        02/09  10:25 PM
>Received:    02/09  10:29 PM
>From:        James A Chappelow, chappja@mail.auburn.edu
>Reply-To:    Vermont Libertarian, vtlp-list@catamount.com
>To:          Multiple recipients of, vtlp-list@catamount.com
>
>Outside of Birmingham, a kid was arrested Saturday for not giving a cop
>his Social Security number. The bumper fell off his truck, so he stuck the
>tag in the rear window; not a rare sight in Alabama. 


Luckily, even though many states demand SS#s, they tend not to verify SS#s so you can supply whatever you like.  One state (Ohio) demanded some proof of SS# and was satisfied by a payroll check stub which can be generated by any computer.

Common identifiers are meaningless if not verified.

DCF





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Duncan Frissell 
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 08:27:55 +0800
To: e$@vmeng.com, fc98@offshore.com.ai
Subject: FC'98 Palm Pilot Resources
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980210192156.036d3da0@panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I have produced some FC'98 files in suitable formats for the Palm Pilot.  I will be adding more as the date approaches.

http://www.frissell.com/AXA/axa.html

So far we have:

A map of Anguilla (looks great in Image).

A map of Monserrat with eclipse lines. 

and in DOC format:
 
The Wired article on FC'97.

The Forbes cover story on FC'97.

and finally:

For purposes of amusement only, a Jfile databse of the first 4 quarterly reports of the (1786) names of Taxpatriates (those with too much money who renounce their US citizenship) as reported to the Secretary of the Treasury last year by the State Department.
 
More to come including a schedule in .dba format as soon as The Powers That Be settle on one.

DCF





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nelsonde@umich.edu
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 08:41:44 +0800
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199802110031.TAA13619@seawolf.rs.itd.umich.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



 I'm Snyder, the karmic metacrawler.  The word:
           cryptanalytic
 and Alta Vista's Scooter lead me to you.  Know that in
 the frigid wastes of the WWW my PERL-scripted heart beats for you.


To:  cypherpunks\@toad.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 09:20:34 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Cyber 'Nannys"
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Tim May  writes:

> As far as I'm concerned, absent a contract, anyone who "demands" something
> from me is on thin ice.
>
> Like I said, if you're unhappy that CyberSitter or NetNanny will not
> provide you with information you wish to have, use another service.

So I can't demand that the censorware peddlers not mailbomb me?

The mentally retarded pedophile Guy Polis tried to mailbomb me from his
former eviljay@bway.net account, and bway.net pulled his plug in minute.

Is that censorship?

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ryan Lackey 
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 09:22:21 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: TEMPEST open-source definition version 0.1alpha
Message-ID: <199802110119.UAA04666@the-great-machine.mit.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----


So, if we're going to try to protect computers from TEMPEST threats, and we
don't have access to the multiple government classified standards, we should
come up with the Cypherpunks TEMPEST standard.

A theoretical definition of what we want to do (strong) is that we should be
able to put the equipment in a virtual box, have an empty virtual box,
and then nothing anything which is not in the TCB can do can distinguish
one box from the other.  Perhaps the "empty" box should also contain
simulators for the ethernet, visible light output, and straight power
draw (harmonics are still to be avoided), or in some other definitional
way they should be accounted for.  This prevents non-TCB programs from
utilizing the EM spectrum as a covert channel.

Additionally, we need to protect the user from divulging state information
about his TCB.  I guess this condition can best be met by simply saying
"take the target system and clone its state perfectly.  Separate the two
systems.  Allow the user to modify the state of the target system while you
retain the clone -- you do not have a non-negiligible improvement in
matching future state using the EM emissions of the first system over
not using the EM emissions."  I think there is a better way of stating
this, though.

So, given a workable theoretical definition which defines perfection, it's
time to reverse engineer the practical TEMPEST systems (and in so doing
perhaps the classified TEMPEST spec) out there.  Next time I find a
TEMPEST case at swapfest, or at a con, I'll pick it up (if someone wants to
ship me one, so much the better).  You *can* buy them from some vendors,
although they often refuse to sell them to non-government affiliated entities).
MIT's quasi-affiliated Draper Labs has proper TEMPEST verification equipment,
and I think some places on MIT's campus have some general purpose equipment
which can be used for such purposes.  If not, I have a copy of NI LabView
and some DAQ hardware which, coupled with some antenna frobbery, can be
used to do a quick spectrum analyzer, and there's the capacity to do
some serious analysis once the data are on the computer.

It would be nice to know how good government TEMPEST systems really are.
In practice, matching them would probably be enough.  The above theoretical
definition doesn't really help that much -- in practice, there's going to be
some information coming out, and just because you can't figure out how to use
it, doesn't mean no one can.  I think preventing the covert channel attack
might actually go beyond the government's TEMPEST spec -- certainly if a
non-TCB program can cause a system reboot, or power up a peripheral, you
can detect the change in power draw, unless the system naturally throws away
the difference between its max power consumption and its present power 
consumption all the time.  Being able to telegraph even 1 bit of information
might be enough, and if you've got an arbitrary precision clock, you could
use this method to send an arbitrary codeword from an arbitrary-length 
codebook given an arbitrary time interval.

The rainbow books talked about covert channel elimination being a really
hard problem.  Now I see even more why they were right.  IIRC, it's only
at the not-really-commercially-available levels (A1) that covert channels
are utterly eliminated; usually they are comfortable just documenting them.

Of course, it would probably make a lot of sense to do TEMPEST reverse 
engineering in a country that has neither an OSA nor the ability to randomly
classify research.  Yet another project for cypherpunks.to, Lucky?

A practical way of approaching theoretical TEMPEST-perfection is just
a decent faraday cage with a lead-glass monitor cover, shielded or
eliminated cables, and a serious double-conversion UPS.  From the government
TEMPEST products I've seen, that's all they are (or they use mesh).  I've
mainly seen thinks like the SafeKeyper, not general purpose computers, though.
I don't think Jim was that far off the mark in thinking class B machines
are a worthwhile starting point, but it doesn't go anywhere near far enough.

ObCrypto: I've been looking at implementing a cipher in a reconfigurable
processor.  I might even customize one.  Yay.

ObGuns: I got to use a .22cal nail gun.  It was fun.

ObPersonalAttacks: There are a lot of people who are not Real US Citizens
on this list.  Beware the evil multinationalist conspiacy in our midst, good
followers of Bill Clinton!

ObQuestion: Can the US government deny a passport for no reason to a random
US citizen who is not a felon?
- -- 
Ryan Lackey
rdl@mit.edu
http://mit.edu/rdl/		



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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 09:56:59 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Cyber 'Nannys"
Message-ID: <199802110145.UAA07873@panix2.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



   >   To: cypherpunks@toad.com
   >   Subject: Re: Cyber 'Nannys"
   >   From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
   >   Message-Id: 
   >   
   >   The mentally retarded pedophile Guy Polis tried to mailbomb me from his
           ^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^ ^^^
   >   former eviljay@bway.net account, and bway.net pulled his plug in minute.

Fire One.

---guy





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Brian B. Riley" 
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 10:33:12 +0800
To: "Ryan Lackey" 
Subject: Re: TEMPEST open-source definition version 0.1alpha
Message-ID: <199802110228.VAA11735@mx02.together.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On 2/10/98 8:19 PM, Ryan Lackey (rdl@mit.edu)  passed this wisdom:

>So, if we're going to try to protect computers from TEMPEST 
>threats, and wedon't have access to the multiple government 
>classified standards, we should come up with the Cypherpunks 
>TEMPEST standard.
>
>A theoretical definition of what we want to do (strong) is that we 
>should beable to put the equipment in a virtual box, have an empty 
>virtual box, and then nothing anything which is not in the TCB can 
>do can distinguish one box from the other. Perhaps the "empty" box 
>should also contain simulators for the ethernet, visible light 
>output, and straight power draw (harmonics are still to be 
>avoided), or in some other definitional way they should be 
>accounted for. This prevents non-TCB programs from utilizing the EM 
>spectrum as a covert channel.  
  [big snip]

 Some of this reminds me of when I worked at Raytheon, I did some coding
for this genius at magnetic fields we had. This was the time of the MX
missile and the 'racetrack' concept, mobile launchers that moved all the
time. The idea was that a significiant percentage of the mobile launch
cannisters were empty and what the scientist I worked with had to do was
design a set of coils for the dummy cannister that would make it have
the same magnetic signature as a real cannister loaded with a real
missile ... "sort of a global thermonuclear shell game" if you will ...

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0
Charset: noconv

iQEVAwUBNOEM0D7r4fUXwraZAQG+hQf/U/2Irt9FlQQWxc1nJQ1wlFUEtMf5fAxB
5JUXDwGy7+rAVojReAj9gV9SeXZA+h25WJMIbzngibSOYfieiE0iXPNbgNVsDLm/
/giLgqW/AfBUm+EjQMP5glav4xQxGDTKdBBGSqujyzkn5jaDlBVff5mfw5oUeN1c
Vz4dIOzl8n6ivdc2PRbFh+he1X55+y3wLAqYc60VMmhlWPTTHx4PoJRw6hl5lX9c
dfxTIo5B1Gw1I7pP0REFTodW+HXASqoXAG/1Xo3J5rn+yup0IQblz9Pg8IBAW22j
kuFECDHuo9daXp7QH0nZX1/2hRw/cZUf8AtGMhDq3zNWH21E2pHsQA==
=+Gr+
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


Brian B. Riley --> http://members.macconnect.com/~brianbr
 For PGP Keys  

  -- give us the rights Abraham Lincoln cherished lovingly:
     "Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves."






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 11:48:11 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Drivers licenses (fwd)
Message-ID: <199802110351.VAA08010@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 21:27:57 -0500
> From: David Miller 
> Subject: Re: Drivers licenses

> > > It's a signal that is mixed and laid down by the machine. It covers the
> > entire track. The cassette head only has two or four head depending on if
> > it has auto-revers and moves the head.
> 
> So you are saying that the is a continuous track of varying amplitiude
> that
> defines the audio signal?  And that your bias is a part of this?

Actualy a standard cassette tape has 4 tracks grouped in pairs. Each pair is
given one of the channel. The audio that comes in is mixed with a bias
signal (using a summing amp) and then laid down on the tape.

> >From what I know, the bias is a parameter to the recording process and
> not
> the recording as it can be recovered from the magnets.  It is something
> intended to forward-correct error, which is not intended to be
> interpreted
> in the future.

Huh? I have been involved in audio recording for over 20 years, acted as
rodies for a host of bands (some of which actualy made records - but alas no
money) and I must admit that the above sentences don't make any sense to me
at all. Can you possible reword them?

What magnets? 'paramter of the recording process'? 'forward-correct error'?
'interpreted in the future'?

If your heads are magnetised you really should de-gauss them. They'll erase
your tapes eventualy...

> Looking for satellites?

No, to do that I use a C-band hooked to a alt-az mount and a digital modem.
I'll probably just make a normal Newtonian and hood a CCD camera to it and
feed my Video Toaster to digitize and enhance the images. I am particular
inchanged by the Moon. I can look at it for extended periods. I was
enchanted by it when Men stepped onto it for the first time. I very much
hope that we (as a race) go back to stay...

> Did you snag a job?  I had a headhunter call tonight.  It's been a year
> or
> so since they've bothered me.

I talked to BMC Software today. Looks like I'll probably go to work for them
supporting their suite of database products. I should know tomorrow if they
want to do the final interview which means I'll go to work for them on
Monday.

> >    |                   The obvious is sometimes false;                  |
> >    |                   The unexpected sometimes true.                   |
> 
> You've gotta get this Pringles thing in order.  Faith breaks the back of
> these
> types of philosophies.  If you give in to faith, you should normally
> incorporate
> it.  That doesn't mean that you have to explain it through the
> philosophy, but
> if that faith is the only thing that you know is indespensable, you need
> to
> reconsider how indespensable a philosophy that does not make room for it
> is.

Uh, ok.

Ta ta.


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |                   The obvious is sometimes false;                  |
   |                   The unexpected sometimes true.                   |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                       Anonymous                    |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 12:37:17 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: TEMPEST open-source definition version 0.1alpha (fwd)
Message-ID: <199802110356.VAA08108@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Subject: TEMPEST open-source definition version 0.1alpha
> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 20:19:46 EST
> From: Ryan Lackey 

> time to reverse engineer the practical TEMPEST systems (and in so doing
> perhaps the classified TEMPEST spec) out there.  Next time I find a
> TEMPEST case at swapfest, or at a con, I'll pick it up (if someone wants to
> ship me one, so much the better).  You *can* buy them from some vendors,

Are you possibly confusing Tempest with a NEMA certified case? Educalc used
to sell a case for the HP-41C calculator that they touted as NBC certified.

I would suggest looking for one of the NIST certified environmental test
cases that are available. They'll cook or chill your electronics and block
the emissions quite handily. Be shure to get a supply for the copper door
gaskets, they wear out under daily use about 3-4 times a year.


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |                   The obvious is sometimes false;                  |
   |                   The unexpected sometimes true.                   |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                       Anonymous                    |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Frantz 
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 14:24:54 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 11:49 AM -0800 2/10/98, Jim Choate wrote:
>If you want to defeat Van Eck you want either very quite or you want lots of
>noise smoothly distributed across the rf spectrum.

To defeat the integrating attacks you have described, you want to repeat
the same noise frame after frame.  It must be loud enough to swamp the
signal going to the display, so the output of the integration is the noise
and not the signal.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz       | Market research shows the  | Periwinkle -- Consulting
(408)356-8506     | average customer has one   | 16345 Englewood Ave.
frantz@netcom.com | teat and one testicle.     | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Miller 
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 11:34:20 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: How to profit from writing open source (was: free software)
Message-ID: <34E11B59.4E013B83@avana.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



A while back there was a thread on different models of
how to profit from free software.  I have a few
additions that I don't think were mentioned, albeit late.
Ok.  Way late.

The Data Fellows model - supply (ssh) Unix source code
        free, but charge for Windows (clients) after a
        30-day trial period.  Yes.

The Joel McNamara model - give the (Private Idaho)
        software away and go fight forest fires and
        have your children profit from a better world.

--David Miller

middle  rival
devil rim lad





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: eviljay 
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 11:58:53 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Cyber 'Nannys"
Message-ID: <199802110346.WAA25404@nico.bway.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>   Dr. Dimento wrote:
>   
>   The mentally retarded pedophile Guy Polis tried to mailbomb me from his
>   former eviljay@bway.net account, and bway.net pulled his plug in minute.
>    
>   ---
>    
>   Dr. Dimento KOTM
>   Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

Everybody SING!!!

   The old grey crank,
   he ain't what he used to be,
      ain't what he used to be,
      ain't what he used to be.

   The old grey crank,
   he ain't what he used to be,
   and it'll be like that forevermore.


>   Is that censorship?

Is sex with the impotent Dr. Dimento intercourse?
-->EvilJay<--

   MUH-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA!!!





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 12:00:34 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: FC98 Full Event Schedule
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Resent-Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 18:19:23 -0400
X-Authentication-Warning: online.offshore.com.ai: list set sender to
fc98-request@offshore.com.ai using -f
X-Sender: rah@pop.sneaker.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 16:58:52 -0500
To: fc98@offshore.com.ai
From: Robert Hettinga 
Subject: FC98 Full Event Schedule
Resent-From: fc98@offshore.com.ai
X-Mailing-List:  archive/latest
X-Loop: fc98@offshore.com.ai
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: fc98-request@offshore.com.ai

Hello, Everyone!

FC98 is fast approaching, and the FC98 organizing team is thrashing
together a General Schedule for the combined FC98 events: The FC98
Conference, the FC98 Commercial Exhibition and Exhibition Program, and the
FC98 Workshop.

In addition to the ASCII version of the schedule in this message, Blanc
Weber, the FC98 Exhibition and Sponsorship Manager, has put a very nice
tabular version on the web for easy printing:


Please send any corrections you might have to me offline.


Okay, here's the schedule's roadmap:

(CON) means conference activity, and an FC98 Conference Badge is required
for attendance.

(CE) means Commercial Exhibition activity, and is open to the public.

(ECC) means Ecliptical Curve Cruise; Conference badgeholders go free, but
badges are non-transferrable. Additional tickets for the Cruise are
available for sale to FC98-associated people (family, friends, etc.).

(IFCA) means the founding meeting of the International Financial
Cryptography Association, which all FC98 Conference badgeholders,
booth-holders and sponsors are now automatically members of. Only
Conference badgeholders can vote at the first General Meeting of the
Association, however.

We don't have anything about the Workshop on this message, but we will have
a schedule for it soon on the web page, for those of you who are interested
in sticking around another week for the world's only financial cryptography
bootcamp. :-).


Also, all FC98 badgeholders, friends, and family are invited to the
"Welcome to Anguilla" session on Monday to get some information and advice
on what to do during your stay on Anguilla.


Finally, like all schedules, this one is subject to change at a moment's
notice. ;-). We'll try to keep the website as up-to-date as possible,
because it's probably a good idea not to spam you nice folks will all the
updates as they happen. :-)

See you in Anguilla!

Cheers,
Robert Hettinga,
General Chairman,
The 1998 Financial Cryptography Conference, Exhibition and Workshop (FC98)


-----


Monday 23 February 1998

 800 --  820 (CON)
    Breakfast

 820 --  830 (CON)
    FC98 Conference Sessions Welcome

 830 --  905 (CON)
    Micropayments via Efficient Coin-Flipping
    Richard J. Lipton (Princeton University, Princeton, NJ, USA)
    Rafail Ostrovsky (Bellcore, Morristown, NJ, USA)

 905 --  940 (CON)
    X-Cash: Executable Digital Cash
    Markus Jakobsson (Bell Laboratories, Murray Hill, NJ, USA)
    Ari Juels (RSA Laboratories, Bedford, MA, USA)

 940 -- 1015 (CON)
    Distributed Trustees and Revokability:
      A Framework for Internet Payment
    David M'Raihi (Gemplus, Issy-les-moulineaux, France)
    David Pointcheval (GREYC, Universite de Caen, Caen, France)

1015 -- 1045 (CON)
    Coffee Break
    Exhibition Booths open

1045 -- 1120 (CON)
    A Platform for Privately Defined Currencies, Loyalty Credits,
      and Play Money
    David P. Maher (AT&T Labs--Research, Florham Park, NJ, USA)

1120 -- 1155 (CON)
    Assessment of Threats for Smart Card Based Electronic Cash
    Kazuo J. Ezawa, Gregory Napiorkowski
        (Mondex International, Florham Park, NJ, USA)

1155 -- 1230 (CON)
    Using a High-Performance, Programmable Secure Coprocessor
    Sean W. Smith, Elaine R. Palmer, Steve Weingart
        (IBM T.J. Watson Research Center, Yorktown Heights, NY, USA)

1230 -- 1330 (CON)
    Lunch

1330 -- 1400 (CE)
    The Required Hoopla: FC98 Official Event Opening
    Dignitaries (the Finance Minister?), FC98 sponsors, FC98 Management, etc.
    Thanks to Anguilla, Sponsors, etc.
    Administrivia/How FC98 works
    Ribbon Cutting for FC98 Exhibition
    FC98 Exhibition Sessions Welcome

1400--1430 (CE)
    FC98 Press Conference (on Exhibition Floor)

1400--1500 (CE)
    IBM Secure Crypto Coprocessor Demonstration
    Sean W. Smith, Elaine R. Palmer, Steve Weingart
        (IBM T.J. Watson Research Center)

1500--1600 (CE) (Bring friends and family if you want)
    Welcome to Anguilla! Anguilla history, what to do, what to see.
    Various Anguillan Chamber of Commerce, Tourist office folks.

1600--1700 (CE)
    "So, you want to bank on Anguilla?" Offshore Banking and
     Incorporation in Anguilla. Various Anguillan Bankers,
     Lawyers, Financial Planners, Etc.

1830 -- 2000 (CE)
    Cocktail Reception at Serenity Restaurant, Shoal Bay East
    Sponsored by Hansa Bank, Anguilla


Tuesday 24 February 1998

 800 --  830 (CON)
    Breakfast

 830 --  905 (CON)
    Secure Group Barter:
      Multi-Party Fair Exchange with Semi-Trusted Neutral Parties
    Matt Franklin (AT&T Labs--Research, Florham Park, NJ, USA)
    Gene Tsudik (USC Information Sciences Institute, Marina del Rey, CA, USA)

 905 --  940 (CON)
    A Payment Scheme Using Vouchers
    Ernest Foo, Colin Boyd
        (Queensland University of Technology, Brisbane, Australia)

 940 -- 1015 (CON)
    A Formal Specification of Requirements for Payment Transactions
      in the SET Protocol
    Catherine Meadows, Paul Syverson
        (Naval Research Laboratory, Washington, DC, USA)

1015 -- 1045 (CON)
    Coffee Break

1045 -- 1120 (CON)
    On Assurance Structures for WWW Commerce
    Markus Jakobsson (Bell Laboratories, Murray Hill, NJ, USA)
    Moti Yung (CertCo, New York, NY, USA)

1120 -- 1230 (CON)
    Panel Discussion
    Certificate Revocation: Mechanics and Meaning
    Barb Fox (Microsoft, Redmond, WA, USA), moderator
    Joan Feigenbaum (AT&T Labs--Research, Florham Park, NJ, USA)
    Paul Kocher (Valicert, Palo Alto, CA, USA)
    Michael Myers (Verisign, Mountain View, CA, USA)
    Ron Rivest (MIT Laboratory for Computer Science, Cambridge, MA, USA)

1230 -- 1330 (CON)
    Lunch



1330 -- 1430 (CE)
    FC98 Sponsor Showcase
    RSA Data Security

1430 -- 1530 (CE)
    FC98 Sponsor Showcase
    C2NET

1530 -- 1630 (CE)
    FC98 Sponsor Showcase
    Sicherheit und Privat- International Bank

1630 -- 1730 (CE)
    FC98 Sponsor Showcase
    Hansa Bank


1730 -- 1900 (CE)
    Cocktails and Barbecue at InterIsland Hotel
    Sponsored by RSA

1900 -- 2000 (IFCA) (CE) (CON to vote)
    General Meeting:
    The International Financial Cryptography Association (IFCA)
    IFCA Founders Group Photo (Net.Nyms Disguised)

2000 -- 2200 (CON to speak) (CE to watch )
    Rump Session
    (For speaking requests contact
     Matt Franklin )
    Beer provided by RSA




Wednesday 25 February 1998

 800 --  830 (CON)
    Breakfast

 830 --  930 (CON)
    Invited Speaker
    Private Signatures and E-commerce
    David Chaum (DigiCash, Palo Alto, CA, USA)

 930 -- 1005 (CON)
    Group Blind Digital Signatures:
      A Scalable Solution to Electronic Cash
    Anna Lysyanskaya, Zulfikar Ramzan
        (MIT Laboratory for Computer Science, Cambridge, MA, USA)

1005 -- 1045 (CON)
    Coffee Break

1045 -- 1120 (CON)
    Curbing Junk E-Mail via Secure Classification
    Eran Gabber, Markus Jakobsson, Yossi Matias, Alain Mayer
        (Bell Laboratories, Murray Hill, NJ, USA)

1120 -- 1155 (CON)
    Publicly Verifiable Lotteries:
      Applications of Delaying Functions
    David M. Goldschlag (Divx, Herndon, VA, USA)
    Stuart G. Stubblebine (AT&T Labs--Research, Florham Park, NJ, USA)

1155 -- 1230 (CON)
    Security of Digital Watermarks
    Lesley R. Matheson, Stephen G. Mitchell, Talal G. Shamoon,
      Robert E. Tarjan, Francis X. Zane
        (STAR Lab, InterTrust Technologies, Sunnyvale, CA, USA)

1230 -- 1330 (CON)
    Lunch

1330 -- 1405 (CON)
    Security in the Java Electronic Commerce Framework
    Surya Koneru, Ted Goldstein
        (JavaSoft, Palo Alto, CA, USA)

1405 -- 1440 (CON)
    Beyond Identity: Warranty-Based Digital Signature Transactions
    Yair Frankel (CertCo, New York, NY, USA)
    David W. Kravitz (Divx, Herndon, Virginia, USA)
    Charles T. Montgomery (CertCo, New York, NY, USA)
    Moti Yung (CertCo, New York, NY, USA)

1440 -- 1515 (CON)
    Compliance Checking in the PolicyMaker Trust Management System
    Matt Blaze, Joan Feigenbaum, Martin Strauss
        (AT&T Labs--Research, Florham Park, NJ, USA)

1515 -- 1545 (CON)
    Coffee Break

1545 -- 1620 (CON)
    An Efficient Fair Off-Line Electronic Cash System
      with Extensions to Checks and Wallets with Observers
    Aymeric de Solages, Jacque Traore
        (France Telecom--CNET, Caen, France)

1620 -- 1655 (CON)
    An Efficient Untraceable Electronic Money System Based on
      Partially Blind Signatures of the Discrete Logarithm Problem
    Shingo Miyazaki, Kouichi Sakurai
        (Kyushu University, Fukuoka, Japan)

1655 -- 1700 (CON)
    FC98 Conference Session Closing
    Official Conference T-shirts
    Group Photo (Net.Nyms Disguised)


1830 -- 2100? (CE)
    Financial Masquerade Ball (at Cap Julaca)
    Sponsored by Sicherheit und Privat- International Bank
    (Proper attire and disguises required,
    Groucho glasses available at the door).
    RSVP

Thursday 26 February 1998

Beach/Cruise day.
No FC98 activity scheduled today
 except breakfast and lunch at InterIsland
 for those who don't take the eclipse cruise.

 800 --  830 (ECC) (CON)
    Boarding: Ecliptic Curve Cruise [ECC]
         Sponsored by
            RSA
            C2NET
            Sicherheit und Privat- International Bank
            Hansa Bank
            Offshore Information Services
            Shipwright/e$

 825 *SHARP!* (ECC) (CON)
     ECC "Before" Group Photo (Net.Nyms Disguised)

 830 *SHARP!* (ECC) (CON)
     Ecliptic Curve Cruise
     Departs For the Ecliptic Curve
     and the Zone of Totality


 900 --  1030 (Anguilla) (CON)
    Breakfast at InterIsland


 1230 -- 1330 (Anguilla) (CON)
    Lunch at InterIsland

 1435? (Anguilla) (CON)
      Maximum Partial Eclipse

 1436 (ECC) (CON)
     ECC now at 16.57N, 62.15W
     (2 minute totality line,
      9 miles north of Montserrat)
     Total Eclipse of the Sun, Maximum Totality
     "Diamond ring", the stars, and all...

 2030 (ECC) (CON)
    Ecliptic Cryptography Cruise Returns to Anguilla
    ECC "After" Group Photo (Net.Nyms Disguised)



Friday 27 February 1998

 1000 --  1030 (CON)
    Breakfast

 1030 --  1230 (CE)
    Roundtable Discussion
    Financial Intermediaries, Public Networks, and Financial Cryptography
    Steve Schear, First Ecache, moderator
    Paul Guthrie, VISA International
    Frank Trotter, Mercantile Bank/Mark Twain Ecash
    A. S. von Bernhardi, Sicherheit und Privat- International Bank
    Lynwood Bell, Hansa Bank
    Other Financial Intermediaries, TBA

 1230 -- 1330 (CON)
    Lunch

 1330 -- 1430 (CE)
    Roundtable Discussion
    The Regulation of Financial Cryptography
    Duncan Frissell, Frissell Associates, Moderator
    Kevin Manson, US Dept of Treasury, Financial Fraud Institute
    A. S. von Bernhardi, Sicherheit und Privat- International Bank
    Other Regulators, Lawyers, TBA

 1430 -- 1655 (CE)
   Financial Cryptography Showcase
   Dave Del Torto/Dr. Jon Callas, PGP Certserver, banking applications
   Dr. Nicko van Someren, ncipher SET processing engine
   Stephan Overbeek,  QC N-Count
   Ian Grigg/Gary Howland, Systemics, TBA
   Other FC Products, TBA

 1655 -- 1700 (CE)
   FC98 Commercial Exhibition Closing
   Minor Exausted Hoopla
   Commercial Exhibition Survivors Group Photo (Net.Nyms Disguised)


1830 -- ? (CE)
   2nd meeting: Anguilla Dining Cryptographers' Society (at Serenity)
   Partially sponsored by C2NET


-----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/
Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: 

--- end forwarded text



-----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/
Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: 






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 13:19:46 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Test [No Reply]
Message-ID: <199802110525.XAA00742@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Loop Test

[No Reply]


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |                   The obvious is sometimes false;                  |
   |                   The unexpected sometimes true.                   |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                       Anonymous                    |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "WebWarrior3@InfoWar.Com" 
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 13:34:11 +0800
To: cypherpunks 
Subject: [Fwd: Russia/Iraq]
Message-ID: <34E129F0.AE8D3EA4@InfoWar.Com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

A bit off of our regularly scheduled program, but with Yeltsin saying
that Clinton might be starting a 3rd World War last week, I thought I
would pass this on.


To: webwarrior3@infowar.com
Subject: Russia/Iraq
From: alert@stratfor.com
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 19:59:26 -0600 (CST)

______________________________________

Check out our newest product: Santizer
Give away your computer, not your data
______________________________________



Global Intelligence Update 
Red Alert 
February 11, 1998

Russia Threatens to Arm Baghdad
But will Saddam Remain in Power?

According to a report on Tuesday in the online edition of the Egyptian
newspaper Al-sha'b, the Russian government has warned Washington that
Russia will supply arms and humanitarian aid to Iraq if the United States
chooses to abandon diplomatic efforts and attacks Iraq.  Al-Sha'b reported
that Baghdad requested 20 billion dollars in urgent military and
humanitarian aid from Russia.  Baghdad, which already owes Russia 80
billion dollars, hopes to be able to pay off its debt once sanctions are
lifted.  Al-Sha'b went on to report that Washington has monitored
heightened states of alert and increased military preparedness throughout
the Middle East, and has warned neighboring Arab states against providing
Iraq with military support.

If the Egyptian report is factual, then Russia has just moved even closer
to confrontation with the United States.  Its previous threats of world war
are clearly not credible.  Sending aid to Iraq is, on the other hand, quite
credible and therefore is in many ways more dangerous.  The question is,
will Hussein be there after the U.S. attack to receive the arms?

We have noticed a curious juxtaposition of official U.S. statements on the
crisis in Iraq with the emerging balance of U.S. forces in the region,
suggesting that Washington may be expecting an Iraqi coup d'etat.  U.S.
Secretary of State Madeleine Albright testified before the Senate on
Tuesday that, in the event U.S. air strikes contributed to toppling Saddam
Hussein, "it would create a situation which, for a time, would require the
presence of troops."  The United States has accelerated its deployment of
ground troops to the region.  Three thousand troops from Ft. Stewart are
being deployed to reinforce the 1,500 U.S. ground troops already in Kuwait.
The USS Tarawa and the USS Guam, amphibious assault ships each carrying a
2,000-man Marine Expeditionary Unit, are headed for the Persian Gulf.
Other U.S. ground forces in the region include 6,000 soldiers at the Prince
Sultan Air Base in Saudi Arabia and 10,000 soldiers engaged in military
exercises in Egypt.

Additionally, the list of potential U.S. targets has grown from suspected
chemical and biological agent sites to include command and control
installations, the Iraqi air force, and the Republican Guard.  This
suggests a decapitation strike, aimed at disrupting Hussein's capability to
coordinate a defense of his hold on power.

Iraqi opposition forces also appear to be preparing for an altered post-air
strike environment.  The rival Kurdish Democratic Party and Patriotic Union
of Kurdestan are planning a meeting on February 12 to settle outstanding
differences and stabilize their cease-fire.  Iraqi Kurdestan's Conservative
Party public relations officer, Aram Muhammad Sa'id, declared in an
interview on Monday with the Iranian News Agency that Turkey's latest entry
into northern Iraq had the "green light" from the United States, and was
part of a U.S. plan to use air strikes to topple Hussein and dismember
Iraq.  Finally, the Iraqi National Congress has reported that Baath Party
and military officials have begun evacuating southern Iraq, lest an
uprising follow U.S. air strikes.

Many in the U.S. Congress have asserted the need for an "end game" that
removes Saddam Hussein from power, but thus far the U.S. has been unable to
foment or coordinate an overthrow of Hussein.  If it is to be successful,
we will not know for certain about a coup plot's existence until it is
underway.  But circumstances do hint that something may be in the works.
Baghdad has evidently noticed this, as Iraqi Foreign Minister Saeed al-
Sahhaf asserted on Tuesday that the U.S. would fail to topple the Iraqi
regime, since Hussein had the support of the Iraqi people.

The question is this: is there a real possibility of a coup in Baghdad or
is this part of U.S. psychological warfare against Iraq?  In a way, the
possibility of a coup is more reasonable an explanation for U.S. behavior
than the idea that the U.S. is going to mount an air campaign against
chemical and biological weapons.  What is not clear is whether a coup has a
real chance or whether this is just wishful thinking on the part of the
United States.  And it is not clear what Russia would do if the coup turned
into a protracted internal struggle.


___________________________________________________

To receive free daily Global Intelligence Updates 
or Computer Security Alerts, sign up on the web at 
http://www.stratfor.com/mail/, or send your name, 
organization, position, mailing address, phone 
number, and e-mail address to info@stratfor.com 
___________________________________________________

STRATFOR Systems, Inc. 
3301 Northland Drive, Suite 500 
Austin, TX 78731-4939
Phone: 512-454-3626 
Fax: 512-454-1614 
Internet: http://www.stratfor.com/ 
Email: info@stratfor.com






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Miller 
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 13:07:36 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Someone find Jim Choate a job!
Message-ID: <34E12FF3.1D6FC5DB@avana.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Sensory deprivation has caused Mr.Choate to finally go haywire.

I suggest that someone from the state of TX (who have IDs from
Hell) transport him to the nearest University.

--David Miller

middle  rival
devil rim lad





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Lucky Green 
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 16:38:17 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Anguilla and Ricochet
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980211003056.0075df9c@netcom10.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Folks,
I would like to coordinate the wireless communication efforts for FC'98 in
Anguilla. If you were there last year, you know that the lack of a
meaningful communication infrastructure is the number one problem on the
island.

If you intend to bring, or have access to, wireless modems [Ricochet],
satellite ground stations [VSAT, INMARSAT], or the like, please get in
touch with me immediately.

Thanks,


-- Lucky Green  PGP encrypted mail preferred

   "I do believe that where there is a choice only between cowardice and
    violence, I would advise violence." Mahatma Gandhi





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ryan Lackey 
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 14:26:18 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: TEMPEST open-source definition version 0.1alpha (fwd)
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> confusing TEMPEST with NEMA

No, I am certain they're TEMPEST cases; they're government security vendors,
with names that include the word TEMPEST or Security or whatever, and their
prices are huge.  And when I said "I'd like to pay COD", they said "we only
accept government purchase forms."  I have a plain NEMA 19" rack with power
and fans, it's quite different.

Black Unicorn's post about the demise of cash is particularly true when dealing
with vendors who want government POs :)

The people at hacking cons who are selling TEMPEST cases are selling what
I believe are the real thing acquired through a variety of methods, some
legal, others perhaps not.  Usually they contain crufty old PCs, but one
guy had some really nice fully-enclosed TEMPEST-compliant racks.  They had
serious power filters at the bottom, massive fans, and shielded fan i/o.
They were basically free (a few hundred dollars), but I couldn't motor freight
them from the location to my home, since I didn't have anything but cash at
the time.

ObNonCrypto: Waiting until 10 days before fc98 to buy airline tickets when
the cheap fare expired an hour ago was SO SO SO stupid.  Like taking 4 c-notes
and lighting them on fire.  Oh well.
-- 
Ryan Lackey
rdl@mit.edu
http://mit.edu/rdl/		





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 09:37:20 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Godwin, et al, a pity, this
Message-ID: <199802110133.CAA10366@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Who are the "digerati" and why are they "the
cyber elite"? They are the doers, thinkers, and
writers who have tremendous influence on the
emerging communication revolution. They are
not on the frontier, they are the frontier.

The digerati evangelize, connect people, adapt quickly.
They like to talk with their peers because it forces them
to go to the top of their form and explain their most
interesting new ideas. They give each other permission
to be great. That's who they want to talk to about the
things they are excited about because they want to see if
it plays. They ask each other the questions they are
asking themselves, and that's part of what makes this
cyber elite work.


                           The Connector 
                               < John Brockman>
                           The Pragmatist 
                               < Stewart Alsop >
                           The Coyote 
                               < John Perry Barlow >
                           The Scout 
                               < Stewart Brand >
                           The Seer 
                               < David Bunnell >
                           The Thinker 
                               < Doug Carlston >
                           The Idealist 
                               < Denise Caruso >
                           The Statesman 
                               < Steve Case >
                           The Physicist 
                               < Greg Clark >
                           The Matchmaker 
                               < John Doerr >
                           The Gadfly 
                               < John C. Dvorak >
                           The Pattern-Recognizer 
                               < Esther Dyson >
                           The Software Developer 
                               < Bill Gates >
                           The Conservative 
                               < David Gelernter >
                           The Defender 
                               < Mike Godwin >
                           The Genius 
                               < W. Daniel Hillis >
                           The Judge 
                               < David R. Johnson >
                           The Searcher 
                               < Brewster Kahle >
                           The Saint 
                               < Kevin Kelly >
                           The Prodigy 
                               < Jaron Lanier >

                                                The Marketer 
                                                    < Ted Leonsis >
                                                The Scribe 
                                                    < John Markoff >
                                                The Maestro 
                                                    < Stewart McBride>
                                                The Force 
                                                    < John McCrea >
                                                The Competitor 
                                                    < Scott McNealy >
                                                The Publisher 
                                                    < Jane Metcalfe >
                                                The Pilgrim 
                                                    < Jerry Michalski >
                                                The Chef 
                                                    < Nathan Myhrvold>
                                                The Webmaster 
                                                    < Kip Parent >
                                                The Citizen 
                                                    < Howard Rheingold >
                                                The Buccaneer 
                                                    < Louis Rossetto >
                                                The Curator 
                                                    < Doug Rowan >
                                                The Oracle 
                                                    < Paul Saffo >
                                                The Radical 
                                                    < Bob Stein >
                                                The Skeptic 
                                                    < Cliff Stoll >
                                                The Catalyst 
                                                    < Linda Stone >
                                                The Evangelist 
                                                    < Lew Tucker >
                                                The Cyberanalyst 
                                                    < Sherry Turkle >
                                                The Lover 
                                                    < Dave Winer >
                                                The Impresario 
                                                    < Richard Saul Wurman >

http://www.edge.org/digerati/index.html





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Zooko Journeyman 
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 13:51:28 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com
Subject: Re: Deriving economic profits from writing FREE software?
Message-ID: <199802110400.FAA18217@xs2.xs4all.nl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I have an idea for a model for deriving economic profits from 
writing free software.  It requires dcash (specifically,
some money that is cheaply and easily transferrable in small 
amounts).


People submit requests for changes to a "wishlist"/"bug report 
list".  Along with these requests they send dcash.  Various
mechanisms of market and/or trusted intermediary ensure that,
on the whole, the hackers who satisfy the most highly valued
wishes get the most money.  See 
 Grigg 1997
for one good idea of how such a market could operate.


We already have extensive networks of wishlists, bug tracking 
systems, and the rest of an integrated open, distributed 
software development system (e.g. Linux, Debian, many others).
Given the ability to pay (perhaps credit cards could be made to
work here?  Low cost credit card transactions?  Cybercash?),
we could start trying to add this kind of flow of cash to some
such systems.  Unfortunately, i fear that such attempts may
fail and disrupt currently working systems...


--Zooko

P.S.  Hi, y'all.  I've switched continents, contexts, CPUs,
sensitivities and perhaps more, but i'm fine.  Thanks for 
missing me.

p.p.s.  as per  
this slashdot.org article, it is called "Open Software" 
from now on, not "Free Software".  Tell the kids.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Lucky Green 
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 12:50:15 +0800
To: Ryan Lackey 
Subject: Re: TEMPEST open-source definition version 0.1alpha
In-Reply-To: <199802110119.UAA04666@the-great-machine.mit.edu>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Tue, 10 Feb 1998, Ryan Lackey wrote:
> Of course, it would probably make a lot of sense to do TEMPEST reverse 
> engineering in a country that has neither an OSA nor the ability to randomly
> classify research.  Yet another project for cypherpunks.to, Lucky?

I am currently busy with a complete GSM software implementation. Count me
out. But you are welcome  to host the pages on my box. :-)

-- Lucky Green  PGP v5 encrypted email preferred.
   "Tonga? Where the hell is Tonga? They have Cypherpunks there?"





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 22:25:26 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: VanEck, Noise, & Palmtops... (fwd)
Message-ID: <199802111428.IAA02962@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 22:08:06 -0800
> From: Bill Frantz 
> Subject: Re: VanEck, Noise, & Palmtops...

> To defeat the integrating attacks you have described, you want to repeat
> the same noise frame after frame.  It must be loud enough to swamp the
> signal going to the display, so the output of the integration is the noise
> and not the signal.

True, but then we aren't talking about standard PC's and monitors are we...

*NO* method of eavesdropping can't be defeated.


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |                   The obvious is sometimes false;                  |
   |                   The unexpected sometimes true.                   |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                       Anonymous                    |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 22:49:22 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: NEW TRAVEL INFO -- Kuwait (fwd)
Message-ID: <199802111443.IAA03081@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:
>From owner-travel-advisories@stolaf.edu Wed Feb 11 04:13:44 1998
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 14:37:33 -0500
From: owner-travel-advisories 
Subject: NEW TRAVEL INFO -- Kuwait
Sender: "U.S. Department of State" <76702.1202@compuserve.com>
To: travel-advisories@stolaf.edu
Message-ID: <199802061439_MC2-3241-E30@compuserve.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
Precedence: bulk

STATE DEPARTMENT TRAVEL INFORMATION - Kuwait
============================================================
Kuwait - Public Announcement
 February 6, 1998

On February 5, 1998, the American Embassy in Kuwait was authorized 
to issue the following warden message:

"We are monitoring the situation with Iraq closely.  Although we 
see no direct threat to the safety of American citizens in Kuwait at 
this time, we believe it would be prudent now for all citizens to 
heed the standing preparedness advice for American citizens living 
abroad.  Specifically, you should:

--assemble all vital documents such as passports, birth and 
marriage records, vaccination, insurance and bank records in one 
readily accessible location;

--check to be sure that your passport and any necessary visas are 
valid and that you are registered at the Embassy with your current 
address and phone number.  If you need to obtain a new passport or 
to update your registration, please do so at the Embassy as soon as 
possible, any working day from 8:30 to 11:30 am or 1:00 to 3:00 pm;

--make or update as necessary a complete inventory of your 
household effects, in duplicate;

--maintain an adequate supply of food and water in your home.  Make 
sure your car is in good working order.  Keep the gas tank full and 
check oil, coolant, tires and battery.

We do not want American citizens in Kuwait to become unduly 
alarmed.  These are precautionary measures only.  We are not 
advising Americans to leave.  However, given the potential 
seriousness of the current situation we believe it is important for 
all citizens to maintain readiness in case of an emergency.  We will 
promptly inform you of any significant developments and advise you 
accordingly."

For further information on travel to Kuwait, please consult the 
latest Consular Information Sheet for Kuwait or contact the U.S. 
Embassy in Kuwait.  This Public Announcement expires May 6, 1998.


Kuwait - Consular Information Sheet
 August 28, 1996

Country Description:  Kuwait is a constitutional monarchy with a 
modern economy.  Day-to-day life has returned to normal after the 
1991 Gulf War, and facilities for travelers are widely available.  
The workweek in Kuwait is Saturday through Wednesday.

Entry Requirements:  Passports and visas are required for U.S. 
citizens traveling to Kuwait.  For more information concerning entry 
requirements, travelers may contact the Embassy of Kuwait at 2940 
Tilden St., N.W., Washington, D.C. 20008, telephone (202) 966-0702, 
or the Kuwaiti Consulate in New York City, telephone (212) 973-4318.

Areas of Instability:  Travel to and near the Iraq-Kuwait border is 
very hazardous.  U.S. citizens having legitimate work-related 
business near the border may receive updated information from the 
U.S. Embassy, and may also wish to consult with their employer's 
security personnel.  Unexploded bombs, mines, booby traps, and other 
items remain in open areas and beaches throughout Kuwait.  U.S. 
Embassy personnel have been forbidden to travel off paved surfaces 
outside Kuwait City.

Medical Facilities:  The health care delivery system continues to 
rebuild, with many medical facilities, both government and private, 
available in Kuwait.  Medical care at government-run clinics and 
hospitals is generally provided free of charge or at low cost to 
residents of Kuwait, while private physicians and hospitals charge a 
fee for services.  Non-residents have found that private doctors, 
hospitals and clinics expect immediate cash payment for their 
services.  U.S. medical insurance is not always valid outside the 
United States.  Medevac insurance, for emergencies requiring 
treatment outside Kuwait, and supplemental medical insurance with 
specific overseas coverage have proven useful.  Additional 
information on health matters can be obtained from the Centers for 
Disease Control and Prevention's international travelers hotline, 
telephone (404) 332-4559 or visit the CDC Home Page on the Internet 
at http://www.cdc.gov.

Crime Information:  The crime rate in Kuwait is moderate.  However, 
weapons left over from the 1991 Gulf War remain in the hands of the 
populace, and shooting incidents have occurred,  Both physical and 
verbal harassment of women is a continuing problem.  The loss or 
theft of a U.S. passport abroad should be reported immediately to 
local police and the nearest U.S. embassy or consulate.  Useful 
information on safeguarding valuables, protecting personal security, 
and other matters while traveling abroad is provided in the 
Department of State pamphlets, "A Safe Trip Abroad" and "Tips for 
Travelers to the Middle East and North Africa."  They are available 
from the Superintendent of Documents, U.S. Government Printing 
Office, Washington, D.C. 20402.

Currency Regulations:  Travelers checks and credit cards are widely 
acceptable.  Kuwaiti currency is readily convertible to U.S. dollars.

Drug and Crime Penalties:  U.S. citizens are subject to the laws of 
the country in which they are traveling.  Alcohol, pork products, 
and pornography are illegal in Kuwait.  Penalties for importation, 
possession, use, manufacture or sale of illegal drugs, alcohol, or 
pornography are severe, and convicted offenders can expect jail 
sentences and fines.  Religious proselytizing is not permitted.

Terrorist Activities:  Americans in Kuwait should be alert to their 
surroundings and take prudent security precautions.  U.S. citizens 
may wish to consult the Department of State or the U.S. Embassy for 
updated information.

Child Custody:  In Kuwait, child custody decisions are based on 
Islamic law.  It is extremely difficult for an American woman, even 
a Muslim, to obtain custody of her children through a Kuwaiti court 
decision.  Regardless of their parents' marital status, minor 
children of a Kuwaiti father may not leave Kuwait without the 
father's permission.

Traffic Safety and Road Conditions:  Driving in Kuwait can be 
hazardous.  Although Kuwait has an extensive and modern system of 
well-lighted roads, excessive speeding on both primary and secondary 
roads, coupled with lax enforcement of traffic regulations, lead to 
frequent and often fatal accidents.

Embassy Location and Registration:  U.S. citizens are encouraged to 
register at the Consular Section of the U.S. Embassy and to enroll 
in the Embassy's emergency alert network, and to obtain updated 
information on travel and security in Kuwait.  The U.S. Embassy in 
Kuwait is located at Al-Masjid Al-Aqsa Street, Plot 14, Block 14, 
Bayan, Kuwait.  The mailing address is P.O. Box 77, Safat 13001, 
Kuwait; telephone (965) 242-4151 through 9.

 No. 96-150

This replaces the Consular Information Sheet for Kuwait dated 
September 20, 1994, to update information on areas of instability, 
drug and crime penalties, terrorist activities, and the address of 
the U.S. Embassy, and to add information on child custody and 
traffic safety and road conditions.

----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- -----
The "travel-advisories@stolaf.edu" mailing list is the official Internet and
BITNET distribution point for the U.S. State Department Travel Warnings and
Consular Information Sheets.  To unsubscribe, send a message containing the
word "unsubscribe" to:	travel-advisories-request@stolaf.edu

Archives of past "travel-advisories" postings are available at the URL:
"http://www.stolaf.edu/network/travel-advisories.html" or via Gopher:
gopher.stolaf.edu, Internet Resources/US-State-Department-Travel-Advisories





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Lucky Green 
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 15:54:53 +0800
To: Ryan Lackey 
Subject: Re: TEMPEST open-source definition version 0.1alpha (fwd)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On 11 Feb 1998, Ryan Lackey wrote:
> ObNonCrypto: Waiting until 10 days before fc98 to buy airline tickets when
> the cheap fare expired an hour ago was SO SO SO stupid.  Like taking 4 c-notes
> and lighting them on fire.  Oh well.

Ouch. Guess you learned that one the hard way. See you all in Anguilla.
Remember, bring a US analog cellphone and export versions of Ricochet
modems. Also any and all satelite ground station equippment you might have
access to. Yes, that does mean your INMARSAT phones.

-- Lucky Green  PGP v5 encrypted email preferred.
   "Tonga? Where the hell is Tonga? They have Cypherpunks there?"





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: sunder 
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 23:30:05 +0800
To: "James A. Donald" 
Subject: Re: FCPUNX:time to learn chinese?
In-Reply-To: <199802102142.NAA10766@proxy3.ba.best.com>
Message-ID: <34E1BF13.E43A04E9@brainlink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



James A. Donald wrote:

> In other words, instead of China taking over Hong Kong, Hong
> Kong takes over China.

A good friend of mine had the same idea in terms of Microsoft and Apple when
Bill gave Steve "Reality Distortion Field" Jobs lots of money.  His thought was
that Microsoft thought they bought Apple off.  What had really happend was that
OpenStep took over Apple (it did via Rhapsody) and that since (he believes)
that
it will be ported to NT and become part of NT later, it is really Jobs's way of 
taking over EvilSoft.

IMHO, I wouldn't mind if OpenStep penetrated NT.  It would certainly be an
upgrade
in my book. :)  Then again with the way EvilSoft worked in the past, it may
corrupt
both.

:)  We'll see I suppose.  But capitatism is indeed a good virus (one would
hope a strong enough one to topple the last of the big huge communist blocks.)
:) 

-- 

=====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos==============
.+.^.+.|  Ray Arachelian    |Prying open my 3rd eye.  So good to see |./|\.
..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were      |/\|/\
<--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run  |\/|\/
../|\..| "A toast to Odin,  |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/.
.+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were....            |.....
======================= http://www.sundernet.com ==========================





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Paul Bradley" 
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 20:49:52 +0800
To: tcmay@got.net
Subject: RE: Cyber 'Nannys"
In-Reply-To: <34DF87FE.611AA4EF@InfoWar.Com>
Message-ID: <18B66325A0@ou20.csm.port.ac.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




> >While I do not disagree that these companies should be able to market
> >their products, I wholeheartedly disagree with the fact that often their
> >customers (the adults who bought the software or subscribed to he
> >'service') are not allowed to have a list of what is actually blocked,
> 
> So you wholeheartedly disagree that they are not giving you a list of what
> is blocked...so go use another service.


I second that, it is strange how easily it is to bait supposedly 
libertarian list members into saying statist things about "consumer 
protection laws" and other such examples of state force and coercion 
over businesses. 

I do not go out, but a piece of software, then "demand" that I am 
given the source code and an explanation of why each line was written 
in the particular way it appears, of course this is all an aside to 
the real point that people should know better than to try to 
"protect" children from speech they don`t like.


--                  
                            Paul Bradley 
                      paul@fatmans.demon.co.uk
       "Why should anyone want to live on rails?" - Stephen Fry





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Sparkes, Ian, ZFRD AC" 
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 22:07:15 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com
Subject: Legality of *non*-encryption
Message-ID: <000001b0000000c4*/c=de/admd=dbp/prmd=telekom400/o=dmst02/ou=17/s=sparkes/g=ian/@MHS>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I heard an interesting new slant on the legality of 
encryption today.

I was talking to a colleague who is employed in a law firm 
here in Germany. It appears that under the current 
interpretation of German law, communications of a 
confidential nature (for example, contracts, medical 
records and so forth) over an insecure network *MUST* be 
encrypted to protect the Client. It is therefore a breach 
of German law to send unencypted eMail, unless it can be 
proved that every stage of the transmission happens over 
internal (secure?) paths.

I will dig further on this - perhaps there is a useful 
precedent to be established here. At very least we might be 
able to keep lawers (and doctors) off the net ;-)





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Paul Bradley 
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 23:39:54 +0800
To: Ken Williams 
Subject: Re: Letter of the law
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




> the only relevant question here regards the odds that a US Customs officer
> is going to want you to drop your drawers and bend over...

Reasonably good odds I would say given the reputation of Customs-faggots...

        Datacomms Technologies data security
       Paul Bradley, Paul@fatmans.demon.co.uk
  Paul@crypto.uk.eu.org, Paul@cryptography.uk.eu.org    
       Http://www.cryptography.home.ml.org/
      Email for PGP public key, ID: FC76DA85
     "Don`t forget to mount a scratch monkey"






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Steve Schear 
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 01:31:40 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Dealing with Spam, Part 2
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/enriched

 >>MailGuard, which can be downloaded from www.fundi.com, interposes itself
>>between your existing email package and the Internet. When a piece of mail
>>comes in, it checks to see whether it recognizes the address of the sender.
>>If not, it issues a carefully drafted challenge, asking the sender politely
>>to confirm that he is not a bulk sender of commercial mail by replying with
>>a specified phrase in the subject field of the email.

A freeware Java-based, open architected client-side proxy (ByProxy), which includes agents for SPAM filtration, auto pgp encrypt/decrypt among others is posted to www.besiex.com.  It already has noCem and auto/manually builds a friends and enemies list (similar to MailGuard).

--Steve
 ---------------------------------------------------------------------
reply to schear - at - lvdi - dot - net ---

PGP mail preferred, see  	http://www.pgp.com and
http://web.mit.edu/network/pgp.html

RSA fingerprint: FE90 1A95 9DEA 8D61  812E CCA9 A44A FBA9
RSA key: http://keys.pgp.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=index&search=0x55C78B0D
---------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Rabid Wombat 
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 12:09:13 +0800
To: Bob De Witt 
Subject: Re: Stupid Law
In-Reply-To: <199802180443.UAA12254@yginsburg.el.nec.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





So leave the laptop in the hotel safe before going back to the US each 
evening.

On Tue, 17 Feb 1998, Bob De Witt wrote:

> Yes, it is.  Even if he wrote a program in Mexico, but carried his laptop
> back and forth daily, each piece can come into the US, but cannot leave
> again!  Uuuuuuuuummmmmmm, gooooood!  Read the actual documents.
> 
> 
> Bob De Witt,
> rdew@el.nec.com
> 
> 
> > From anon@anon.efga.org Tue Feb 17 19:44:29 1998
> > Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 22:08:26 -0500
> > From: Anonymous 
> > Comments: This message did not originate from the Sender address above.
> > 	It was remailed automatically by anonymizing remailer software.
> > 	Please report problems or inappropriate use to the
> > 	remailer administrator at .
> > To: cypherpunks@toad.com
> > 
> > >Doesn't the act of taking it across the border, in the laptop, constitute
> > >an act of export??
> > 
> > Well, yes it would, but the original scenario includes WRITING the code
> > outside of the US, which means it never was a US creation, even if the
> > creature that happened to be writing the code was native to the US.
> > 
> > The question is whether the dude could pull a stunt like this and get
> > away with it. I'd say go for it. You got a plausible loophole to a
> > stupid law that might not hold in court anyways.
> > 
> > -Anon
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Michael H. Warfield" 
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 00:01:25 +0800
To: whgiii@invweb.net
Subject: Re: I was auto-outed by an IMG tag in HTML spam
In-Reply-To: <199802180937.EAA10267@users.invweb.net>
Message-ID: <199802181346.IAA21174@alcove.wittsend.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



William H. Geiger III enscribed thusly:
> In <37a52bf54844994eb90c8e8af06b07b7@anon.efga.org>, on 02/18/98 
>    at 03:00 AM, Anonymous  said:

> >Use mail readers that don't automatically process HTML and
> >connect to image servers, accept cookies, or run javascripts.  You are
> >being watched by tricky defective, er, detective types. es.

> Several things here:

	:
	: - Point 1 deleted...
	:

> 2. AutoProcessing of Attachments:

> This is *allways* a BadThing(TM). Not only is it an obvious security risk
> it is a PITA for the user. I would be rally pissed if my mailer launched a
> V-Card app everytime someone thought it was a GoodThing(TM) to add these
> attachments to every message they sent out.

	Oh it gets better than that!  I know of one person who got hit with
a specially formated porno-spam message.  When he opened it, the html message
did an autorestart on his browser and  there he was browsing
the porno site!  What a convenient feature!  Especially with you boss and
co-workers in the vicinity!

	Needless to say, that person has is now a rabid anti-html in E-Mail
fanatic!

	:
	: - Remainder of message deleted...
	:

> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> William H. Geiger III  http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii
> Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0
> 
> Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
> PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
> OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html                        
	Mike
-- 
 Michael H. Warfield    |  (770) 985-6132   |  mhw@WittsEnd.com
  (The Mad Wizard)      |  (770) 925-8248   |  http://www.wittsend.com/mhw/
  NIC whois:  MHW9      |  An optimist believes we live in the best of all
 PGP Key: 0xDF1DD471    |  possible worlds.  A pessimist is sure of it!





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 02:05:35 +0800
To: Anonymous 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980218091525.007f8100@otc.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 11:36 PM 2/17/98 -0500, Anonymous wrote:
>
>Here is description of my stream cipher, it operates one
>...
>...
>VB source code:
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>------------------------------------------------------
>Who the hell uses VB of all languages - to write
>a crypto algorithm? And, which sane person uses
>MicroSucks Winduhz? 
>
>


Forget the implementation language/platform bigotry.

The substantive issue is, Tell us what it is designed
to do *precisely*, and then tell us how it does it.
If it is claimed to be a "stream cipher" then it should do 
certain things, e.g., produce incompressible data
from an input stream consisting of identical symbols.
Argue with logic, don't make us read your code.



------------------------------------------------------------
      David Honig                   Orbit Technology
     honig@otc.net                  Intaanetto Jigyoubu

	Has Nike hired Monica to endorse kneepads yet?





	















From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 01:46:58 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Private schools as free speech havens?
In-Reply-To: <01ITPE1OG8I49G4R0J@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 9:56 PM -0800 2/17/98, Bennett Haselton wrote:

>But you wouldn't ask them to accept discriminatory treatment that had
>nothing to do with their disability, simply on the basis that the condition
>causing them to be discriminated against would eventually go away.

What is this "ask them to accept discriminatory treatment" nonsense?

An employer should be free to hire and fire whom he chooses, based on the
criteria he chooses.


--Tim May

Just Say No to "Big Brother Inside"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^3,021,377   | black markets, collapse of governments.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 00:18:24 +0800
To: "Michael H. Warfield" 
Subject: Re: I was auto-outed by an IMG tag in HTML spam
In-Reply-To: <199802181346.IAA21174@alcove.wittsend.com>
Message-ID: <199802181636.LAA13398@users.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In <199802181346.IAA21174@alcove.wittsend.com>, on 02/18/98 
   at 08:46 AM, "Michael H. Warfield"  said:

>	Oh it gets better than that!  I know of one person who got hit with a
>specially formated porno-spam message.  When he opened it, the html
>message did an autorestart on his browser and  there he
>was browsing the porno site!  What a convenient feature!  Especially with
>you boss and co-workers in the vicinity!

This could be a good sting opperation. Send an anonymous e-mail message
that points to a childporn site. The [add your jackbooted thug
orginization here] kick in your door as soon as they get the signal that
your machine has connected to the site and downloaded the images.

Hmmmm I wonder if there is a way to get the browser to DL an image without
displaying it. The pictures would be sitting in your cache without even
knowing it. Probably not a big issue I would imagine that a jury would
convict on website logs alone even if no pictures were found on the
machine.

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html                        
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: Dos: Venerable.  Windows: Vulnerable.  OS/2: Viable.

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Version: 2.6.3a-sha1
Charset: cp850
Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000

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5SrwS2JasrhaEoZ//inxT8kQi7qJGSdd5sA/VckOHOWNmqOz4QaJJyHIpldd14we
lVtFc3t1DRxpY/RdUXEu45AvbWvVzDijAVU3nOgcaPRzllT1NYnSEuxnjKgsJdLd
IzGIn8BKpuo=
=SQJ/
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 00:53:45 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: Websites and trademarks at odds [CNN]
In-Reply-To: <199802181552.JAA11020@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <199802181715.MAA13754@users.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In <199802181552.JAA11020@einstein.ssz.com>, on 02/18/98 
   at 09:52 AM, Jim Choate  said:

>>      How can consumers trust using the Web, where guessing about a
>>      company's address can be like playing shopper's roulette? Imagine
>>      visiting your local grocery store and finding no milk or eggs but
>>      auto parts instead. Imagine walking into Burger King and being
>>      offered computer software.

This is really much todo about nothing and shows a complete lack of
understanding of Trademark laws.

Trademarks are product specific, there is nothing preventing preventing
two companies from having the same name provided they are not in the same
business. You can even have two companies with the same name in the same
business provided that the likelyhood of mistaking one company for another
is small.

Some examples:

It is perfectly legal to have a company name IBM (the computer company)
and another company called IBM (a local auto repair shop in Podunk, AK).

It is also legal to have two companies called Widgets both making widgets
provided that both were operating in different regions (Widgets #1 only
operated in NewEngland while Widgets #2 only operated in Texas).

Trademarks not only involve company names but also include product names.
A good example of this is Intel and the naming of thier CPU's. The courts
ruled that they could not trademark a Number (286,386,486,...) an this is
the reason for the Pentium(TM) name for their chips which is
trademarkable. Even so there is nothing preventing McDonalds from calling
thier new burger the Pentium as no one should mistake a burger for a CPU
(well except for some windows users ).

Now understanding that even when one Tradmarks a name it does not give you
exclusive use of the name how does one apply trademarks to a domain name?

Should www.windows.com be the exclusive domain of Microsoft just because
they have a program with that name? What about a window manufacture
shouldn't he have an equal if not greater claim to that domain (after all
his whole business is windows)? Which windows manufacture? Should ABC
Windows have that claim or Billy-Bob's Windows Imporium? Should the
trademark claim extend to all possible domains? (www.windows.com,
www.windows.org, www.windows.net,
www.windows-blows-chunks-and-bill-gates-sucks-eggs.com)?

I haven't even touched on the international issues. Should a company from
one company have the ability to enforce it's trademark claim to all
domains world-wide?

I fear that this is just another example of the Government trying to get
it's sticky fat fingers on another portion of the net not to mention yet
aother shoddy piece of journalism (calling it that give too much credit to
the author).

Just for the slow ones out there it is perfectly legal for me to open a
computer store, call it Buger King and call my computer system the Wopper.


- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html                        
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: I'm an OS/2 developer...I don't NEED a life!

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Charset: cp850
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iQCVAwUBNOsCLI9Co1n+aLhhAQGPUAP/XIg+CYn3zGQH6ztVDY+gZAEVjPMU04QF
4JePKqGUOPSaXwHF6U7Fvx9bqGl9cBd36JT0KwwQluBRQBdJ4q2FAX4a92JubtuX
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dQQaIWI/zKo=
=RrnK
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 02:27:21 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Is spam really a problem?
In-Reply-To: <199802181733.SAA26244@basement.replay.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 9:33 AM -0800 2/18/98, Anonymous wrote:
>I see discussion of spam here and everywhere on
>the net. But who finds it a *real* problem, and
>why?

Indeed, discussion of "what to do about spam?" periodically consumes all of
the main lists I'm on. Discussion of spam is worse than the actual spam.

>Nevertheless, spam does not create a big problem
>for me. Perhaps 10-15% of my home email is spam,
>(much less at work) and I identify and kill it
>in less time than it takes me to sort out the
>junk from my snail mail.

Same for me. I can delete commercial advertisements ("spam") in seconds.


>Don't get me wrong; I don't *like* spam. But
>for me it's a minor problem, certainly not
>worthy of legal remedies. I'm willing to suffer
>a certain level of foolish annoyance gladly
>in return for liberty.

Well said. "Be careful what you ask for."

Anti-spam bills are already wending their way through Congressional
committees. If passed, an FCC-like authority over the Net will have been
granted.

(Though probably ineffectual, given the use of offshore sites, throwaway
accounts, etc. The real effect will probably be to usher in an era of
mandatory identification for account opening, which is pernicious, and
various other tracking and surveillance systems.)


The only  "spam" which really bothers me is/are _mail bombs_, where
hundreds or even thousands of messages fill my mailbox. I've been hit twice
with these attacks. And a friend of mine received 25,000 messages from one
sender...he sued and won a substantial settlement from the employer of the
guy who mail bombed him.

But such attacks will likely not be affected by anti-spam laws anyway.
Perps can use sites in other countries, beyond the reach of the laws. And
remailers. And so on.

"Be careful what you ask for."

--Tim May

Just Say No to "Big Brother Inside"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^3,021,377   | black markets, collapse of governments.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 00:23:19 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: New technology around the corner [slashdot.org]
Message-ID: <199802181626.KAA11323@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Note: Text edited for relevance.

Forwarded message:

> Subject: http:--www.slashdot.org-

>    Hitachi Makes Breakthrough Contributed by Justin
>    [Technology] Tue Feb 17 16:40:30 1998 EST
>    From the rapidly-advancing-society? dept.
>    Hitachi has made a breakthrough of their own, in a different kind of
>    storage. Hitachi announced they have found a way to reduce the number
>    of electrons needed to store a bit of information in a DRAM chip. The
>    128MB chips should be coming out soon, and will be perfected in the
>    16GB (*drool*) generation of chips.
>    Read More...
>    13 comment(s)

>    Seagate Makes Breakthrough Contributed by Justin
>    [Technology] Tue Feb 17 15:28:31 1998 EST
>    From the buncha-really-tiny-mirrors dept.
>    A division of Seagate Technology, Inc. has announced a new way of
>    increasing disk drive capacity density. Quinta has disclosed key parts
>    of their technology, which they call Optically Assisted Winchester
>    (OAW) technology to make a practical magento-optical disk that is
>    capable of holding 40GB/square inch. The new technology uses mirrors,
>    a new servo system, and other methods to allow these large capacities.

>    Slashdot is participating in Distributed.Net's Decryption Projects.
>    Read who's helping, and why. Check out Our Current Rank.

>    [Technology] Sun Feb 15 11:12:15 1998 EST
>    Plastic Screens (12)


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |            When a man assumes a public trust, he should            |
   |            consider himself public property.                       |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                      Thomas Jefferson              |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 00:28:18 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Quebec secession trial - status?
Message-ID: <199802181633.KAA11473@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Hi,

I was wondering if anyone in the great white north might enlighten us on
what is going on with the Quebec secession case that starts this week...


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |            When a man assumes a public trust, he should            |
   |            consider himself public property.                       |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                      Thomas Jefferson              |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 03:21:46 +0800
To: jim.burnes@ssds.com
Subject: Re: New technology around the corner [slashdot.org]
In-Reply-To: <199802181626.KAA11323@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 10:32 AM -0800 2/18/98, Jim Burnes wrote:

>Does anyone else get the feeling that we are on the cusp of
>serious exponential change in technology?   I know its been
>going exponential for a while, but now I'm really starting
>to feel it.  Thats major breakthroughs in two weeks:
>
>1. 170 TB Polymer memory sandwiches (OptiCom)
>2. Flat Plastic Video Screens using Light Emitting Polymers "LEPs"
>(Cambridge)
>3. massive DRAMS (Hitachi)

No, I don't think we're on any kind of cusp of a growth curve. If anything,
several things are slowing down.

Beware the "press release." The items above are just a few of literally
thousands of such announcements.

Remember how "laser pantography" was going to revolutionize chip-making,
and even make "back yard fabs" possible? How about "silicon on sapphire"
and how it would obsolete Integrated Injection Logic? (You don't remember
I-squared L? Shame on you, as it was scheduled to put Intel out of business
by 1976).

Or how about plastic cubes that can store terabytes. Or wafer scale
integration. Or e-beam addressed memory. Or neural networks. Or fuzzy logic.

("Hey, Tim's being a negativist. My new rice cooker says it has fuzzy logic
in it.")

And then there's the whole universe of speculation about quantum computers,
DNA computers, nanotechnology, etc.

The fact is that R&D labs partly run on hype. And journalists are willing
to interview researchers to generate stories.

A particularly interesting place to read about all the Latest and Greatest
technologies destined to replace silicon is "Electronic Engineering Times."
EE Times has for at least 15 years been running breathless hype about such
technologies as neural networks, brain machines, organic semiconductors,
optical memories, and on and on.

(These articles are often interesting, too. I just don't get too excited by
some researcher's predictions.)

>ObCrypto: Since polymer transistors seem to be necessary to implement
>polymer memory, how does this effect computation speed?  The polymer
>transistors must be around 30-40nm and low power.  How long until we
>have Polymer PGA,PALS,CPUs?  How fast will they be?  Is it time to add
>a few more bits to the public key?  Are there any cipher attacks that
>would benefit from obscenely large amounts of fast memory?  Sorry if
>this is a naive question to the theorists.

If you literally mean "add a few more bits," as in 4 or 5 or so bits, that
pretty much applies every few years, by the usual Moore's Law sorts of
calculations. (Except of course it makes no logistic/administrative sense
to literally add a few more bits...better of course to pick a "safely
large" size. And of course the strength is usually more dependent on the
underlying symmetric cipher key size (e.g., IDEA).

As for "polymer memory," or even Hitachi's "fewer electrons in the cell"
research, believe it when you see it. And when you can buy it. And buy it
cheaply.

But I don't get overly excited by announcements of new developments like
this. Perhaps following the industry for 25 years has made me jaded.

--Tim May


Just Say No to "Big Brother Inside"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^3,021,377   | black markets, collapse of governments.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Burnes 
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 02:41:50 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: New technology around the corner [slashdot.org]
In-Reply-To: <199802181626.KAA11323@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <34EB2935.AC6847AE@ssds.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate wrote:
> 
> Note: Text edited for relevance.
> 
> Forwarded message:
> 
> > Subject: http:--www.slashdot.org-
> 
> >    Hitachi Makes Breakthrough Contributed by Justin
> >    [Technology] Tue Feb 17 16:40:30 1998 EST
> >    From the rapidly-advancing-society? dept.
> >    Hitachi has made a breakthrough of their own, in a different kind of
> >    storage. Hitachi announced they have found a way to reduce the number
> >    of electrons needed to store a bit of information in a DRAM chip. The
> >    128MB chips should be coming out soon, and will be perfected in the
> >    16GB (*drool*) generation of chips.

Does anyone else get the feeling that we are on the cusp of
serious exponential change in technology?   I know its been
going exponential for a while, but now I'm really starting
to feel it.  Thats major breakthroughs in two weeks:

1. 170 TB Polymer memory sandwiches (OptiCom)
2. Flat Plastic Video Screens using Light Emitting Polymers "LEPs"
(Cambridge)
3. massive DRAMS (Hitachi)

ObCrypto: Since polymer transistors seem to be necessary to implement
polymer memory, how does this effect computation speed?  The polymer
transistors must be around 30-40nm and low power.  How long until we
have Polymer PGA,PALS,CPUs?  How fast will they be?  Is it time to add
a few more bits to the public key?  Are there any cipher attacks that
would benefit from obscenely large amounts of fast memory?  Sorry if
this is a naive question to the theorists.

Jim





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ken Williams 
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 01:35:54 +0800
To: Bob De Witt 
Subject: Re: Letter of the law
In-Reply-To: <199802180228.SAA12074@yginsburg.el.nec.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Tue, 17 Feb 1998, Bob De Witt wrote:

>Ken,
>
>I guess I was thinking about the NSA, recording the message and deciding to 
>make an example.  They seem to do that occassionally just to keep the rest
>of us folks 'in line'.  I can't see the INS even understanding what they 
>were looking at, even if you showed them.  "My, my, my!  All those bits are
>really in that little box?"  You have to understand the difference between
>a 'large possibility' and a 'fat chance', yes?

yep.

>Now, drugs!  That they understand ...  But a PKI key?  Or, a file??  Or, a
>crypto program (especially renamed)???  What piece of this trick question 
>am I missing?

actually, you are right on target with your comments.  IMO, you didn't
miss anything.  i was simply referring to my dislike of random body cavity
searches and harassment by US Customs and customs officials in other
countries (i travel alot and have been subjected to alot of bullshit).  so
far, Japan was the worst of all the countries i have visited (18 at last
count in Europe and Asia alone).  they saw my waist-length hair, tattoos
and US passport....well, you can guess the rest.

TATTOOMAN

>Bob De Witt,
> rdew@el.nec.com
>The views expressed herein are my own,
>and are not attributable to any other
>source, be it employer, friend or foe.
>
>
>> From jkwilli2@unity.ncsu.edu Tue Feb 17 10:56:22 1998
>> X-Authentication-Warning: c00954-100lez.eos.ncsu.edu: jkwilli2 owned process doing -bs
>> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 13:56:29 -0500 (EST)
>> From: Ken Williams 
>> X-Sender: jkwilli2@c00954-100lez.eos.ncsu.edu
>> To: Bob De Witt 
>> cc: cypherpunks@toad.com
>> Subject: Re: Letter of the law
>> X-Copyright: The contents of this message may not be reproduced in any form
>> X-Copyright: (including Commercial use) unless specific permission is granted
>> X-Copyright: by the author of the message.  All requests must be in writing.
>> X-Disclaimer: The contents of this email are for educational purposes only
>> X-Disclaimer: and do not reflect the thoughts or opinions of either myself
>> X-Disclaimer: or my employer and are not endorsed by sponsored by or provided
>> X-Disclaimer: on behalf of North Carolina State University.
>> MIME-Version: 1.0
>> 
>> On Tue, 17 Feb 1998, Bob De Witt wrote:
>> 
>> >Doesn't the act of taking it across the border, in the laptop, constitute
>> >an act of export??
>> 
>> well, yes, of course.  that was taken for granted in my comments.
>> likewise, if you go to a tattoo parlor and get the infamous 4 line
>> crypto-sig tattooed on your ass, then you are classified as a munition,
>> and you cannot leave the US.
>> 
>> the only relevant question here regards the odds that a US Customs officer
>> is going to want you to drop your drawers and bend over...
>> ;-)
>> 
>> ken 
>> 
>> >> >>I'm in El Paso Texas... so close to the border
>> >> >>I can see Old Mex outside my window as I write this..
>> >> >>I'm over there nearly every day for lunch ( I actually
>> >> >>walk there from my house it's so close) If I write
>> >> >>a crypto program on my laptop over there and ftp
>> >> >>it to a web page I have on a server outside the US
>> >> >>will I have avoided the foolish export regs??
>> >> >>Does anyone know of someone trying this before?? 
>> >> >
>> >> >My guess is this:
>> >> >  if it has the name of a US citizen in the copyright
>> >> >notice, it will be assumed to have been made in the
>> >> >US. if the morons even go after you. you still may have
>> >> >a plausable excuse if ever taken to court.
>> >> >after all, you "exported" youself, which is a perfectly
>> >> >legal thing to take out of the country, and "yourself"
>> >> >accidentally spewed a copy of something that couldn't
>> >> >cross the border.
>> >> >I don't think anybody has tried this and been challenged.
>> >> >then again, a lot of us don't have the opportunity.
>> >> >It's easier to ask forgivness than permission...
>> >> >Another easier excuse would be to publish it freely in
>> >> >hardcopy form, and just "happen" to have somebody end up
>> >> >"typing" in your source code abroad, making a legit
>> >> >international copy...
>> >> >-Anon2
>> >> 
>> >> i would think that the big question here, legally, is whether or not you
>> >> would be ustilizing a US ISP and/or cellular provider to make the upload
>> >> of the crypto program to the foreign server via ftp.  as long as all the
>> >> packets stay outside of US borders, in other words, as long as you don't
>> >> use a US ISP and cellular provider, then i don't see how you would be
>> >> violating any laws in this case.
>> >> 
>> >> Regards,
>> >> 
>> >> TATTOOMAN 
>> >> 
>> >> http://152.7.11.38/~tattooman/
>> >> 
>> >Bob De Witt,
>> >rdew@el.nec.com
>> >The views expressed herein are my own,
>> >and are not attributable to any other
>> >source, be it employer, friend or foe.
>> > 
>> >
>> 
>> TATTOOMAN
>> 
>> /--------------------------[   TATTOOMAN   ]--------------------------\
>> | ORG: NC State Computer Science Dept    VP of The  E. H. A. P. Corp. |
>> | EML: jkwilli2@adm.csc.ncsu.edu         ehap@hackers.com             |
>> | EML: jkwilli2@unity.ncsu.edu           ehap-secure@hackers.com      |
>> | WWW: http://www4.ncsu.edu/~jkwilli2/   http://www.hackers.com/ehap/ |
>> | FTP: ftp://152.7.11.38/pub/personal/tattooman/                      |
>> | W3B: http://152.7.11.38/~tattooman/w3board/                         |
>> | PGP: finger tattooman@152.7.11.38                                   |
>> \----------------[   http://152.7.11.38/~tattooman/  ]----------------/
>> 
>> 
>> 
>





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ken Williams 
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 01:55:09 +0800
To: Breezy 
Subject: Re: bugged?
In-Reply-To: <34EA2E43.240F2420@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Tue, 17 Feb 1998, Breezy wrote:

>Babu Mengelepouti wrote:
>> 
>> Ken Williams wrote:
>> >
>> > I got pgp 5.0. which will not work with your version. Upgrade man :-)
>> 
>> He's the one who needs to change his version... to 2.6.x
>
>Why use 2.6.x vs 5.0?  Is 5.0 not as stable or something?  Not as good?
>What's up?
>
>====/------ Breezy ----------------------------/ 
>===/---- ebresie@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu ----------/ 
>==/---- http://ccwf.cc.utexas.edu/~ebresie --/
>

PGP v2.6.2 for UNIX is RSA, and cannot decrypt anything crypted with 
PGP v5.x.  v5.0 for UNIX features the DSS/Diffie-Hellman algorithm that
all the other 5.x versions have.  v5.0 is stable, better, and is basically
the current standard.  it is more script-friendly and has a better
command-line.

basically, it really sucks when every encrypted message i have gotten in
the past week was encrypted with RSA/DSS and i couldn't decrypt it with
the v2.6.2 that is installed at work.  due to space limitations on my
volume server and our nihilistic copyrighted software policy, my only
solution/option at the moment is to bring my laptop to work just for
message decryption.

i've sent in a software request for a PGP upgrade on the network, but due
to the expensive PGP licensing agreements and the fact that we have close
to 50,000 active users, i don't expect anything to be done.

guess state employees don't have the right to privacy any more huh?
and neither do the studnets here for that matter...


TATTOOMAN

work disclaimer:  i lied and i'm legally insane.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Wei Dai 
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 06:14:33 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Is spam really a problem?
In-Reply-To: <199802181733.SAA26244@basement.replay.com>
Message-ID: <19980218135327.39037@eskimo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Wed, Feb 18, 1998 at 06:33:07PM +0100, Anonymous wrote:
> 
> I see discussion of spam here and everywhere on
> the net. But who finds it a *real* problem, and
> why?

The way I see it, the problem with spam isn't that it takes too much
effort to delete them, but that it discourages useful advertisement
through email. Email could be a very efficient way for companies to send
valuable information to potential customers, but the incentives are such
that virtually all unsolicited commercial email are of very low value
and are deleted without being read. 

If you like game theory, you might want to search the cypherpunks mailing
list archive for a game theoretic analysis of the spam situation.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 07:27:05 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Is spam really a problem?
In-Reply-To: <199802181733.SAA26244@basement.replay.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 12:47 PM -0800 2/18/98, sunder wrote:
>Anonymous wrote:
>>
>> I see discussion of spam here and everywhere on
>> the net. But who finds it a *real* problem, and
>> why?
>
>It eats up your valuable time.  You might not see it for what it is, but
>it is an interruption of normal service.  It's annoying as having your
>pager go off durring sex and having to call back your boss instead of
>ignoring it.  (Presume you can't shut off your pager.)  It takes away
>from the continuity of life.

But *many* things eat up our valuable time. Doesn't mean government action
is the answer.

>Further, some of us use ISDN to get their email and transferring the
>extra junk adds to the pay/minute connections.

If you use ISDN and pay minute charges to download an article from me, for
example, and you feel it was a waste of your valuable time, should my
article be illegal?

If someone sees your name somewhere and does the same thing (sends you a
letter), should this be illegal?

(I threw this last point in because some have argued that there is an
implicit agreement that mail on a mail exploder will not be objected to, as
it fits the charter, blah blah. So I removed this implicitness by speaking
of someone who writes a letter.)

If _content_ is not a criterion for spam, as Costner and others have noted,
then "wasting Ray's time" is even less of a criterion for what spam is.


Look, there's just not going to be a simple government answer to "unwanted
communications" that doesn't do serious damage to our liberties.

Technological/economic approaches are the only way to go.

--Tim May

Just Say No to "Big Brother Inside"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^3,021,377   | black markets, collapse of governments.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 07:34:53 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Squelch discussions of the "spam problem"
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Several lists I'm on are beating the spam problem once again. What to do
about it, whether government should step in, and so on.

Look, folks, I guarantee that the more everyone talks about the "spam
problem," even if most of us don't think it's a pressing problem, the more
likely it is that spam legislation will be introduced. And that won't be
good, whatever one thinks of spam.

Congress operates by catering to special interests and popular calls for
"action." Doesn't matter to them what action they take, so long as they can
hold up their "Digital Protectin and Children's Safe Surfing Act of 1998"
legislation.

The more jostling and chatter that goes on, the more likely Congressional
aides will start drawing up legislative language.

So, even if you think spam is a serious problem, I urge you to suppress the
desire to throw your two cents in on what kind of a horrible thing it is,
how its corrupting the nation's precious bodily fluids, and how *something*
must be done!

I guarantee you won't like the results you get, no matter your views on spam.

--Tim May

Just Say No to "Big Brother Inside"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^3,021,377   | black markets, collapse of governments.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: sunder 
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 04:58:32 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Is spam really a problem?
In-Reply-To: <199802181733.SAA26244@basement.replay.com>
Message-ID: <34EB48F9.352C6B61@brainlink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Anonymous wrote:
> 
> I see discussion of spam here and everywhere on
> the net. But who finds it a *real* problem, and
> why?

It eats up your valuable time.  You might not see it for what it is, but
it is an interruption of normal service.  It's annoying as having your
pager go off durring sex and having to call back your boss instead of
ignoring it.  (Presume you can't shut off your pager.)  It takes away
from the continuity of life.

Further, some of us use ISDN to get their email and transferring the
extra junk adds to the pay/minute connections.

There are nice technical solutions to this.  If sendmail didn't transport
things unauthenticated it could be done, but at a cost in CPU cycles on mail
servers:

Have every sendmail server use a PK scheme to talk to every other
server and authenticate the connection.  Have every sendmail server accept
mail only from those whose key is verified.

Anonymous remailers would still work and these could be set up to accept
unauthenticated email, but then use their own credentials to send out
the mail, so it will auth with your servers.  Also have the anon remailers
not accept too many messages from one source within a certain time frame to
different destinations.  i.e. if I send out 50 messages to cypherpunks in
one hour, that's cool.  If I send out 50 messages to 50 different users
everywhere within an hour, it's not cool.

This way the spamming bitches would be forced to still register domain
names and send mail from them, and you can have your mail server block
them as needed and be certain of where they came from.  If you have
problems with anon users, you can block unsigned (and/or signed but
unrecognized) messages from anon users, while still allowing signed
messages of anons you know well and accept mail from.  

[Note: I said known anons, this prevents Spamfuckers from genning
10 billion key pairs to spam you with.]

(I won't get into persistant anonymous identities and reputation capital
as that's been beaten to death already.)

IMHO with such a scheme it will be possible to reactivate email relaying
again, it just requires everyone to gen their own DH or RSA keys.  The
mailer software can handle this for users, so it's of little issue.

The other side of the coin is that ISP's should include AUP clauses that
state if you spam, you pay extra $$$ and make it enforceable via contract.
Say, you pay shit.net $10/month for access, you'll have to sign a thing
that says if you use your account to spam, you'll have to pay $500,000
or something just as prohibitive, or release their real world info, 
(or whatever can be legally used to deter the fuckers.)

If any ISP's don't do this, or allow way too many spams, they get
filtered from your servers.

Mind you, this won't totally stop spammers, but it will make it hard 
for them.  Food for thought.  IMHO, with such fascist anti-encryption
laws today, this is unlikely to take off. :(

OTOH, the idea of pledging not to buy anything from spammers helps in
the long run, but there are enough sheep out there that will accept
any crap thrown in their mail.  Further, spamming them back helps.
If they put 800 numbers on the spam, call them and talk to them for
hours and waste their time.  If they put fax numbers in there, send
them orders with fake addresses.  If they put up net addresses, block
them from your router and/or flood them with extra traffic if you can
or want to.  If they put up PO addresses, subscribe them to many weird
magazines by sending in the fall out cards with their address on
it.  (seek legal advice before trying these, I'm just ranting and venting.)
:)

-- 

=====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos==============
.+.^.+.|  Ray Arachelian    |Prying open my 3rd eye.  So good to see |./|\.
..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were      |/\|/\
<--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run  |\/|\/
../|\..| "A toast to Odin,  |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/.
.+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were....            |.....
======================= http://www.sundernet.com ==========================





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 05:58:19 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: New technology around the corner [slashdot.org] (fwd)
Message-ID: <199802182201.QAA12804@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 11:32:21 -0700
> From: Jim Burnes 
> Subject: Re: New technology around the corner [slashdot.org]

> Does anyone else get the feeling that we are on the cusp of
> serious exponential change in technology?   I know its been
> going exponential for a while, but now I'm really starting
> to feel it.

I have felt that way since the early 80's. The rate of technology
multiplication and some of the truly weird technologies that people said
wold never happen are happening. 

> 2. Flat Plastic Video Screens using Light Emitting Polymers "LEPs"
> (Cambridge)

Don't forget the fact that their test beds were done with *standard* ink-jet
printers with a modified head assembly.

> ObCrypto: Since polymer transistors seem to be necessary to implement
> polymer memory, how does this effect computation speed?  The polymer
> transistors must be around 30-40nm and low power.  How long until we
> have Polymer PGA,PALS,CPUs?  How fast will they be?  Is it time to add
> a few more bits to the public key?  Are there any cipher attacks that
> would benefit from obscenely large amounts of fast memory?  Sorry if
> this is a naive question to the theorists.

These are some of the exact same questions that I'm trying to add numbers to
myself... when we take the union of the computer, information processing,
networking, bio-engineering, transportation, etc. industries the various
predictions of Toffler and others seem woefuly short-sighted.


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |            When a man assumes a public trust, he should            |
   |            consider himself public property.                       |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                      Thomas Jefferson              |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: proff@iq.org
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 02:27:01 +0800
To: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Subject: Re: Is spam really a problem?
In-Reply-To: <199802181733.SAA26244@basement.replay.com>
Message-ID: <19980218050405.1567.qmail@iq.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> PS: I'm slightly anonymous in this message
> because I fear that if I used my real name,
> some jerk would decide to sign me up for
> every spam source on the planet, to prove
> a point.
> 
> M

Too late. Someone subscribed you to cypherpunks
already.

Cheers,
Julian.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 08:14:15 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: News & Truth
In-Reply-To: <199802171633.KAA03408@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <199802190007.QAA19951@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jefferson:
>At a very early period in my life I determined never to put a sentence into
>any newspaper. I have religously adhered to the resolution through my life
>and have great reason to be contented with it. Were I to undertake to answer
>the calumnies of the newspapers it would be more than my time and twenty
>aids could effect. For, while I should be answering one, twenty new ones
>would be invented. I have thought it better to trust to the justice of my
>countrymen  that they would judge me by what they see of my conduct on the
>stage where they have placed me.

a friend of mine is studying Hamilton vs. Jefferson. it turns out
Hamilton loved newspapers and would write frequently under his own
name, or under a variety of pseudonyms. one biographer states he
assumed the personality of each as he wrote under them.  I think
Jefferson was at ill advantage in the face of Hamilton's tactics.


>No Government ought to be without censors; and when the press is free, no
>one ever will. Nature has given to man no other means of sifting out the
>truth either in religion, law or politics. I think it as honorable to the
>government neither to know nor notice its sycophants or censors as it would
>be undignified and criminal to pamper the former and persecute the latter.

this is pretty hard to parse until one understands that an old 
form of the word "censor", as I understand it, meant "to criticize".
so "censor" as a noun and verb should be replaced with "critic" and
"criticize" for the modern translation.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 05:21:10 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Is spam really a problem?
Message-ID: <199802182107.QAA00482@panix2.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



   >   From sunder@brainlink.com Wed Feb 18 15:58:46 1998
   >   
   >   Anonymous wrote:
   >   > 
   >   > I see discussion of spam here and everywhere on
   >   > the net. But who finds it a *real* problem, and
   >   > why?

Why are you asking the cypherpunks list?

   >   There are nice technical solutions to this.  If sendmail didn't transport
   >   things unauthenticated it could be done, but at a cost in CPU cycles on mail
   >   servers:
   >   
   >   Have every sendmail server use a PK scheme to talk to every other
   >   server and authenticate the connection.  Have every sendmail server accept
   >   mail only from those whose key is verified.

Nonsense.

We (NANA) already know where spam comes from,
and when we complain about it, they are terminated.

#   Date: Tue, 10 Feb PST  16:13:26 -0800
#   Message-Id: <199802110013.QAA23854@blaze.corp.netcom.com>
#   Subject: Re: Commercial spam complaint
#   From: abuse@netcom.com (NETCOM Policy Management)
#
#   Thank you for your report. This user's account has been terminated for
#   violations of NETCOM's Acceptable Use Guidelines.

PK authentication would change nothing.

Show a single spam with a forged IP address.

PK authentication would only lead us down the
road of everyone being tattooed with barcodes
of our own making - and incredibly dumb idea.
---guy

   It would be like requiring a smart card for Internet access.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 08:19:37 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: Websites and trademarks at odds [CNN]
In-Reply-To: <199802181552.JAA11020@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <199802190013.QAA20451@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



the article states that it is difficult for consumers to
find companies when trademarks are not equivalent to 
web site addresses.

solution: a "trademark directory" web page-- say,
www.trademark.com. it gives the
official web site of all companies in the world. yahoo
is close to this but not quite. an opportunity for a 
budding entrepreneur. it would clearly be a very
high-traffic site, ripe with advertising possibilities.

added benefit:
it might cut down on the animosity going on over 
web site addresses, "poaching", and lawsuits over ownership.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 08:22:03 +0800
To: Tim May 
Subject: Re: Squelch discussions of the "spam problem"
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199802190018.QAA20938@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I strongly disagree with TCM about not talking about spam.

I have commented on the list many times about the very
difficult problem of spam and how its not something that
ought to be ignored. it *was* ignored many years ago
and is continuing to get worse. it will *continue* to
get worse until some good solutions are found.

however, I agree with TCM in that I despise a legislative
solution and think that it would be a very bad idea, and
lead to new odious bureacracies.

I do believe that the spam problem can be solved with
a technical solution, and I urge cypherpunks as a group 
(oops, that's taboo and an oxymoron) to attack it technically.
that is part of the problem-- imho it requires a cooperative
& collaborative solution, which tends to defy the loner and individualistic
mentality that permeates cyberspace. 

why can't cryptographic ingenuity be applied to this problem?
in many ways it is similar to problems of "denial of service"
that keep repeating all over cyberspace because it is a 
very difficult problem to solve.

I suspect reputation systems might be extremely useful in attacking the
problem, and supposedly this is a cpunk area.

I'm going to try to write up an essay soon on spam prevention based
on some of the ideas I have bouncing around in my brain.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 06:19:05 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: New technology around the corner [slashdot.org] (fwd)
Message-ID: <199802182222.QAA12937@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 11:16:15 -0800
> From: Tim May 
> Subject: Re: New technology around the corner [slashdot.org]

> No, I don't think we're on any kind of cusp of a growth curve. If anything,
> several things are slowing down.

Stricly speaking I would agree, we are *past* the cusp and on the upward
rush of the technology curve.

> Beware the "press release." The items above are just a few of literally
> thousands of such announcements.

Exactly! Only look at what people are actualy *doing* and not what they are
predicting. It's one of the reasons the vast majority of forwards in the
technology forum I send here are about things that have succeeded.

> Remember how "laser pantography" was going to revolutionize chip-making,
> and even make "back yard fabs" possible?

While the concept of a backyard fab has been pretty much blown out of the
water what *has* come around and *wasn't* predicted is the growth of
fab-less chip design companies. If you look at how these sorts of businesses
have grown since the late 80's onward it is astounding some of the custom
chips these firms are willing to design and get built through renting others
spare fab bandwidth.

> How about "silicon on sapphire"
> and how it would obsolete Integrated Injection Logic? (You don't remember
> I-squared L? Shame on you, as it was scheduled to put Intel out of business
> by 1976).

SoS technology was always predicted to win the game *if* the issues of
thermal expansion between the Silicon and Sapphire could be resolved. Also,
just as with Josephson Junction devices, other methods to achieve the same
levels of predicted performance at less cost were devloped. There must be
technologies that fail for there to be technologies to win. Simply pointing
at the failed ones as an example of why it can't happen is a strategy that
is doomed. There will always be some turk who has the self-confidence to say
it can be done and then does it.

> Or how about plastic cubes that can store terabytes. Or wafer scale
> integration. Or e-beam addressed memory. Or neural networks. Or fuzzy logic.

All of these technologies are out there. They haven't reached a point where
they're mature for a variety of reasons. Let's look at Terabyte storage for
a moment. Consider that the largest data bases on the planet are only a few
*hundred* Terebytes and of them there are only a few 10's of thousands.
Perhaps the reason the market hasn't taken off in this area is because the
market isn't large enough. Give it another 5-10 years so that computers have
become pervasive in schools, play, home, business, etc. (and no they are not
pervasive now) and the market forces to drive new material releases on CD
or other long-term media as the *primary* media (paper being so now) *and*
there becomes a market for the re-release of past books and material then
we'll begin to see a reason for each of us to be carrying around tera-bytes
of data.

Fuzzy logic and neural networks resolve your telephone switching issues,
are used to locate natural resources, filter intelligence data for threads,
etc. They're even used in coffee makers and micro-waves now.

e-beam addressed memory is a looser, and anyone with a clue back them would
have said so as well. Too power hungry, physicaly a bitch to haul around in
your shirt pocket, etc.

> ("Hey, Tim's being a negativist. My new rice cooker says it has fuzzy logic
> in it.")

See!

> And then there's the whole universe of speculation about quantum computers,

I *strongly* suggest folks follow the Quantum Coupled Architecture
developments over the next two years or so.

> DNA computers, nanotechnology, etc.

These are new technologies that are only a decade or two old. Consider
transisitors. The first FET transistor effects was discovered in the 30's
but it wasn't until the 50's that we actualy managed to build a working BJT
and several years after that till the FET based technology became feasible.
And there have been some interesting advances in these fields. DES being
cracked by a bio-logical computer a couple of years ago for example. The ARM
technology as well as the ability to not only understand but manipulate the
genetics and mechanics of nano-technology have only been around 5-10 years.
These are new technologies that are at the 'terrible-two's' stages of
development. It's clear they can do it, they just haven't figured out how.
And in the process they're rambling around the house opening every cubbard
and drawer dumping the contents out.

> The fact is that R&D labs partly run on hype. And journalists are willing
> to interview researchers to generate stories.

Until it's a reality it's *always* hype. Asking the technology to prove it
itself the first day is like asking a new born baby to talk or recite
Shakespeare. It's unreasonably demanding and self-deluding.

> A particularly interesting place to read about all the Latest and Greatest
> technologies destined to replace silicon is "Electronic Engineering Times."

You can see some pretty funny predictions in the Enquirer also...

It's a good thing to have an open mind, just not so open it sloshes out on
the ground.

> But I don't get overly excited by announcements of new developments like
> this. Perhaps following the industry for 25 years has made me jaded.

>From the stories of your personality and the demonstrations I've seen you're
a born cynic.


The street finds its own uses for technology.

                      William Gibson


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |            When a man assumes a public trust, he should            |
   |            consider himself public property.                       |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                      Thomas Jefferson              |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 06:50:26 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Moore's Law - What is it?
Message-ID: <199802182255.QAA13050@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Hi,

Consider this,

Moore's Law has for the past few decades successfuly described the increase
in computer performance, at least within experimental error. It has proven
it's success, at least short term, from the school of hard knocks.

But what *is* Moore's Law? It clearly doesn't discuss the fundamental
technology of computing and its limitations. Is it in fact the mathematical
description of our understanding and ability to apply that comprehension to
the real world. Is it in fact a mathematical model of the limits of human
reasoning and not computing technology per se.

If Moore's Law is fundamentaly valid over the long-term it should be
applicable to other forms of human endeavor since the limits of human
reasoning and comprehension would seem to be a characteristic of our mind
and not a particular area of application.

What other forms of human exploration when examined in this light follow the
curve?

Perhaps Moore's Law is a measure of an ecomomic systems' ability to apply
and distribute technology to the society in a non-breakthrough, an ah-hah
experience where there is a fundamental shift of paradigm, environment.

If so, what other forms of economic expansion follow this curve?

However, if Moore's Law is only applicable to computing technology; Why?
Why should such a simple curve describe such a complex and inherently
non-deterministic area?


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |            When a man assumes a public trust, he should            |
   |            consider himself public property.                       |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                      Thomas Jefferson              |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 09:24:11 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: New technology around the corner [slashdot.org]
In-Reply-To: <199802181626.KAA11323@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 4:02 PM -0800 2/18/98, Anonymous wrote:
>Tim May wrote:
>
>> Or how about plastic cubes that can store terabytes....
>
>
>They work fine.  Just keep it in liquid nitrogen or you'll lose all your
>data.

Fine, I'll keep them in LN. Tell me where I can buy these terabyte cubes?
This would be news to Rentzepis and his cohorts.


>Backyard fabs?  Quite doable with MBE or electron beam lithography.  Just
>don't expect to do any mass-production on such a setup.

Neither MBE nor EBL handle more than a tiny subset of the steps needed. For
example, diffusion drives, implants, reactive etches, chem-mechanical
polishing, and a dozen other steps.

--Tim May


Just Say No to "Big Brother Inside"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^3,021,377   | black markets, collapse of governments.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Troy A. Bollinger" 
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 08:13:27 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com
Subject: (forw) Re: Cypherpunks - Austin: Sat. Feb. 21 6-7pm, physical meet (fwd)
Message-ID: <19980218180749.12069@austin.ibm.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Boundary..3989.1071713777.multipart/signed"

--Boundary..3989.1071713777.multipart/signed
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I made the mistake of replying back to austin-cpunks instead of this
list.  If anyone attending CFP this week in Austin would like to get
together let me know.  Or just show up on Saturday for the local meet.

Thanks,
Troy

----- Forwarded message from Jim Choate  -----

Message-Id: <199802181631.KAA11452@einstein.ssz.com>
Subject: Re: Cypherpunks - Austin: Sat. Feb. 21 6-7pm, physical meet (fwd)
To: austin-cpunks@ssz.com
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 10:31:27 -0600 (CST)
In-Reply-To: <19980218101742.09049@austin.ibm.com> from "Troy A. Bollinger" at Feb 18, 98 10:17:42 am
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23]
Content-Type: text
Sender: owner-austin-cpunks@ssz.com
Reply-To: austin-cpunks@ssz.com


Hi Troy,

> Well, I'm free to meet anytime this week.  I don't know what the
> schedule is for CFP, but if someone sends me a time and place I'll show
> up.

> > > Lots of us out-of-towners will be in Austin for CFP this week -- but the
> > > conference ends on Friday. People start leaving that evening or the next
> > > morning. And those of us are staying through Saturday are planning a day
> > > trip outside of Austin that won't get us back by 6 pm.
> > >
> > > Why not have a pre-meet, or the meet itself, during CFP?

You should send a notice to 'cypherpunks@ssz.com' so that your offer can be
propogated to the entire crew quickly.

Thanks for the effort.

----- End forwarded message -----

-- 
Troy Bollinger                            troy@austin.ibm.com
AIX Security Development        security-alert@austin.ibm.com
PGP keyid: 1024/0xB7783129 Troy's opinions are not IBM policy


--Boundary..3989.1071713777.multipart/signed
Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="pgp00000.pgp"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="pgp00000.pgp"
Content-Description: "PGP signature"

LS0tLS1CRUdJTiBQR1AgU0lHTkFUVVJFLS0tLS0KVmVyc2lvbjogUEdQIGZv
ciBQZXJzb25hbCBQcml2YWN5IDUuMApNZXNzYWdlSUQ6IEFOdUxHSTA5MThs
VHRlckRrTnBNZzByL2Q0a2NlR1EwCgppUUNWQXdVQk5PdDMwc2pxdkVtM2VE
RXBBUUdtaVFQN0J5YmEzMTl0QUdpUVFqUHB0VDlVczRZTjdWL0RqOWpkCm9k
dm5kbEVXV09IRWllVHNSWVV3cTk1R0JWZ1lhY0N4VFY0aEFzS3JuN0orVHN5
YUxxSGQ2ZytUdFdaY1RKVEUKaTBwL2ROV3o1bGR1ajg5TGVOdzhvQ3JWc3dk
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blE3RT0KPVpmV04KLS0tLS1FTkQgUEdQIFNJR05BVFVSRS0tLS0tCg==
--Boundary..3989.1071713777.multipart/signed--



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 09:47:28 +0800
To: j orlin grabbe 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Wednesday 2/18/98 6:04 PM

J Orlin Grabbe
John Young

Authentication

John Young has been sent a copy of  ORDER with SEPARATE
PAGE marked

	FILED
	UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
    	ALBUQUERQUE, NEW MEXICO
	February 10, 1998



	US District Court
	District of New Mexico
	Digital File Stamp

...

 This document consists of an official stamp of the Court and, if
attached to the
document identified above, servers and endorsed copy of the pleading. 
It may be
used in lieu of the Court's mechanical file stamp for the named document
only, and
misuse will be treated the same as misuse of the Court's official
mechanical file
stamp.  The Court's digital signature is a verifiable mathematical
computation unique
to the filed document and the Court's private encryption key.  This
signature assures
that any changes can be detected.

Attached is Svet's ORDER.  WITH NO MARKINGS ON IT.

Grabbe, perhaps I should modify the ORDER SLIGHTLY and return this to
the court
claiming that I believe that I have recieved a COUNTERFEIT COPY of
Svet's
decision.

And, would the court please verify if the copy I sent them was authentic
or not.

And, too, tell me WHY they knew that it was a counterfeit or authentic.

But this is why we have back-ups.

ALLAHU AKBAR!

Perhaps the opposition has more brains than our [?] side.

But first things first.

bill


                     UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
                 FOR THE DISTRICT OF NEW MEXICO


William H. Payne        	   	    		)
Arthur R. Morales                           			)
                                            				)
                Plaintiffs,                 			)
                                            				)
v                                           				)	CIV NO 97 0266 
							)	SC/DJS
			                    			)
Lieutenant General Kenneth A. Minihan, USAF 	)
Director, National Security Agency	    		)
National Security Agency		    		)
                                            				)
                Defendant                   			)


PLAINTIFFS'  RESPONSES TO JUDGE SVET'S ORDER FILED January 28, 1998, ORDER FILED February 10, 1998, AND AFFIDAVIT OF ATTORNEY FEE IN ACCORDANCE WITHCOURT ORDER FILED 98 FEB-9


1  COMES NOW plaintiffs Payne  and Morales [Plaintiffs] to respond

to two ORDERs and AFFIDAVIT.

2  Magistrate judge Svets [Svet] writes in ORDER filed January 28, 1998.

  IT IS FURTHER ORDERED THAT sanctions will be granted and 
  counsel for Defendant shall submit an affidavit outlining her costs
  and fee in bring the Motion within ten days of entry of this Order.
  Plaintiffs may respond within ten days of service of Defendant's     
  affidavit.

3 Svet states in ORDER filed January 28, 1998

 Plaintiff's attempt at discovery violates this Court's Order entered June
 11 , 1997.

4 June 11 order states,

  THIS MATTER come before the Court sua sponte following 
  an Initial Scheduling Conference held June 5, 1997.  The 
  establishment of deadline for discovery and pre-trial pleading is 
  necessary for the orderly hearing of this case. However, this case 
  in not one in which an Initial Pre-trial pleading will assist the 
  Court.  Accordingly, such a document will not be entered.  Further, 
  the parties will not be permitted to undertake any discovery in this 
  matter absent Court permission.  The parties shall submit any 
  proposed discovery to the Court for approval, accompanied by a 
  motion to permit discovery and a memorandum of points and 
  authorities explaining the need for that discovery.

     IT IS THEREFORE ORDERED that the following deadlines 
  are hereby established:

     1.   The parties shall complete discovery necessary by 
     September 3,
     1997.
     2.   Motions relating to discovery shall be filed no later 
     than September 23, 1997.
     3.   All pretrial motions regarding matters other than 
     discovery shall be filed by October 3, 1997.
     4.   The Pre-Trial Order shall be provided as follows:
     Plaintiffs to Defendants by November 3, 1997;  
     Defendants to the Court by November 18, 1997.

  IT IS FURTHER ORDERED that discovery in the matter shall only be 
  undertaken upon obtaining Court permission.  The parties shall 
  submit any proposed discovery to the Court for approval, 
  accompanied by a motion to permit discovery and a memorandum of 
  point and authorities explaining the need for that discovery.

                    signed
                    DON J. SET
                    UNITED STATES MAGISTRATE

5 Plaintiff's point out in UNOPPOSED MOTION FOR EXTENSION 

OF TIME AND  RESETTING TIME LIMITS FOR DISCOVERY

  Rule 36 states, 
 
  Request for admission (a) A party may serve upon any other 
  party a written request for the  admission, for the  purposes of 
  the pending action only, of the truth of any  matters within the  
  scope of Rule 26(b) set forth the request that relate to statements 
  or opinions of fact or of the application of law to fact including 
  the genuineness of any documents described in the request.   
  Copies of documents shall  be served with the request unless 
  they have been or otherwise  furnished or made available for 
  inspection and  copying.  The request may WITHOUT LEAVE  
  OF THE COURT, be served  upon the plaintiff after 
  commencement of  the action and upon any  other party with 
  or after service of the  summons and complaint upon that 
  party. ... 
 
  Plaintiffs capitalize WITHOUT LEAVE OF THE COURT.

6  Svet writes in ORDER filed January 28, 1998

  On June 11, 1997 this Court ordered that any proposed 
  discovery must be approved by this Court.

Svet's above sentence violations Rule 36 of the Federal Rule
 
of Civil Procedure.

7 Svet writes in ORDER filed January 28, 1998

  Further, Plaintiff's did not seek to take discovery prior to the
  discovery deadline.

Svet FAILED TO RESPOND to Plaintiffs' UNOPPOSED MOTION 

FOR EXTENSION OF TIME AND  RESETTING TIME LIMITS 

FOR DISCOVERY.

8 Svet writes in ORDER filed January 28, 1998

  Finally, Plaintiffs, failed to serve counsel for Defendant and 
  instead served General Minihan.  This violates Fed. R. Civ 5.

Plaintiffs DID SERVE General Minhan with first set of admissions

through US lawyer Mitchell on October 13, 1997 in full compliance with

Fed. R. Civ 5.

9 Svet writes in ORDER filed January 28, 1998

  The fact that Plaintiffs are pro se does not relieve them from the burden
  of complying with court orders and rules of civil procedure.

To the contrary, Svet flaunts in writing his disregard of truth and rules

of Civil Procedure.

  Plaintiff have always attempted to follow the Federal Rules of Civil 

Procedure and were always willing to correct any mistakes.

  Svet, on the other hand, proceeds with an attempt to ignore the laws

IN WRITING of the United States.

  Friday October 24, 1997 08:10 file criminal complaint affidavit with

Supreme Judge Antonin Scalia against judges Svet and Campos.

  Scalia has not yet responded to Plaintiffs' criminal complaint affidavit.

  Svet, by issuing ORDER filed January 28, 1998, must believe that Scalia

is going to cover-up for Svet's and Campos' judicial misconduct.

10 Svet writes in ORDER filed January 28, 1998

  Further, Plaintiffs flagrant disregard of this Court's order warrants
  the imposition of sanctions pursuant to Fed.R.Civ.P. 37

    IT IS THEREFORE ORDERED, ADJUDGED AND DECREED that
  Defendant's Motion to Strike and all of Plaintiff's First Set of Requests
  for Admissions to Various Employees of the National Security Agency
  and to Various Employees of Sandia National Laboratories is granted.

Svet cite no law or rules which prevent Plaintiffs' from requesting

admission from non-parties, therefore Plaintiff's must assume in the

interest of justice that Svet agrees with Plaintiff's procedure.

11  Svet ORDER FILED February 10, 1998 states

  THIS MATTER comes before the Court on Plaintiffs' Motion to Remove
  Docket Sheet Entry 14 and Associated Response file on June 24, 1997.
  The matter of discovery was addressed in and Order entered June 11,
  1997.  Thus, Plaintiff's Motion is moot.

  IT IS THEREFORE ORDERED, ADJUDGED AND DECREED that 
  Plaintiffs' Motion to Remove Docket Sheet Entry 14 and Associated
  Response is denied as moot.

Docket Sheet entry 14 posted 6/9/97 is

  RESPONSE  by defendant to motion to accept discovery plan of plaintiffs
  as an unopposed motion before the Court (dmw) [Entry date 06/10/97]

5/23/97 Docket Sheet entry 9 Plaintiffs file 

  MOTION by plaintiff for order to accept discovery plan (dmw)

Defiant misses filing date for response to entry 9.

Therefore, Plaintiffs' file on 6/9/97 Docket Sheet entry 13

  MOTION by plaintiff to accept discovery plan of plaintiffs are an   
  unopposed motion before the court (dwm)

In panic Defendant's lawyer US Mitchell submits on 6/9/97

Docket Sheet entry 14

  RESPONSE by defendant to motion to accept discovery plan of plaintiffs
  as an unopposed motion before the Court [13-1] (dwm) [Entry date
  06/10/97]

Lawyer Mitchell, apparently realizing her legal procedureal blunder, is 

forced to deposit her LATE MOTION in Court outside mailbox since entry was 

not until June 10.

  Svet, again, flaunts disregard for the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure 

by ORDER FILED February 10, 1998 by ruling late motion moot.

  Svet cites no authority to overrule dictates of Federal Rules of Civil 

Procedure, and even local court rules, on timeliness.

  Svet demonstrates again, IN WRITING, prejudice toward Defendant.

12 Svet NOT ONLY has shown,  IN WRITING, his attempt to inhibit the legal 

process specified in the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure but has engaged 

in a proactive process of attempting to retaliate against Plaintiffs' in 

their attempt to follow the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure.

  Svet NEVER attempted to clarify procedures or rules so that either side 

could correct any mistakes in civil procedure.

WHEREFORE

13  Plaintiffs' invoke 

  28 USC § 455. Disqualification of justice, judge, or magistrate 

    (a) Any justice, judge, or magistrate of the United States shall 
    disqualify himself  in any proceeding in which his impartiality 
    might reasonably be questioned. ...

14  REMOVE judges Svet and Campos from this proceeding for clear
 
demonstration of pattern and practice of judicial misconduct IN

WRITING in this lawsuit.

15  ORDER judge Svet  RESTRAINED from awarding sanctions against

Plaintiffs.

16  APPOINT new magistrate and judge to begin this lawsuit DE NOVO.

17 GRANT such other relief as the Court may deem  just and proper.



Respectfully submitted, 
 
 
                    _________________________ 
                    William H. Payne             	   	     
                    13015 Calle de Sandias NE          	     
                    Albuquerque, NM 87111              	     
 
 			
                    _________________________				 
                    Arthur R. Morales                            
                    1024 Los Arboles NW                         
                    Albuquerque, NM 87107                        
 
                    Pro se litigants 
 
 
               CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE 
 
I HEREBY CERTIFY that a copy of the foregoing memorandum
was mailed to Lieutenant General Kenneth A. Minihan, USAF, 
Director,  National Security Agency, National Security Agency, 
9800 Savage Road, Fort George G. Meade, MD 20755-6000 
and hand delivered to Jan E Mitchell, Assistant US Attorney, 
525 Silver SW, ABQ, NM 87102 this Thursday February 19,
1998.





7






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 01:49:25 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Is spam really a problem?
Message-ID: <199802181733.SAA26244@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




I see discussion of spam here and everywhere on
the net. But who finds it a *real* problem, and
why?

I've been on the net for nearly 20 years. I'm
active on numerous mailing lists. I post to 
usenet. I have a website. In all cases 
(except this post) I use real email 
addresses.

Nevertheless, spam does not create a big problem
for me. Perhaps 10-15% of my home email is spam,
(much less at work) and I identify and kill it 
in less time than it takes me to sort out the 
junk from my snail mail.

Don't get me wrong; I don't *like* spam. But 
for me it's a minor problem, certainly not
worthy of legal remedies. I'm willing to suffer
a certain level of foolish annoyance gladly 
in return for liberty.

The only point at which spam is more than a 
minor irritation is when sexual spam turns up in
my home mail or in inappropriate news groups, 
and then only because I have young kids, who
I don't wish to be exposed to porn until they
are more mature (if you flame me on this, you're
missing the point of this post, and will be
ignored).

Masque.

PS: I'm slightly anonymous in this message
because I fear that if I used my real name,
some jerk would decide to sign me up for
every spam source on the planet, to prove
a point.

M
  





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 08:29:24 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: News & Truth (fwd)
Message-ID: <199802190033.SAA13743@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Subject: Re: News & Truth 
> Date: Wed, 18 Feb 98 16:07:00 -0800
> From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 

> a friend of mine is studying Hamilton vs. Jefferson. it turns out
> Hamilton loved newspapers and would write frequently under his own
> name, or under a variety of pseudonyms. one biographer states he
> assumed the personality of each as he wrote under them.  I think
> Jefferson was at ill advantage in the face of Hamilton's tactics.

Perhaps, but I doubt your proposing that history looks upon Hamilton
with equity to Jefferson. The ultimate winner of any discourse is the one
that history remembers.

Jefferson's Opinion of Hamilton:

That I have utterly in my private conversations disapproved of the system of
the Secretary of the Treasury, Alexander Hamilton, I acknowledge and avow;
and this was not a merely speculative difference. His system flowed from
principles adverse to liberty and was calculated to undermine and demolish
the republic, by creating an influence of his department over members of the
Legislature. I saw this influence actually produced, and its first fruits to
be the establishment of the greatest outlines of his project by the votes of
the very persons who, having swallowed his bait, were laying themselves out
to profit by his plans; and that had these persons withdrawn as those
interested in a question ever should, the vote of the disinterested majority
was clearly the reverse of what they made it. These were no longer then the
votes of the representatives of the people, but of deserters from the right
and interests of the people.

My objection to the Constitution was that it wanted a bill of rights
securing freedom of religion, freedom of press, freedom from standing
armies, trial by jury, and a constant Habeas Corpus act. Colonel Hamilton's
was that it wanted a king and a house of lords. The sense of America has
approved my objection and added the bill of rights, not the king and lords.
I also thought a longer term of service, nsusceptible of renewal would have
made a President more independant. My country has thought otherwise, and I
have aquiesced implicity. He wishes the general government should have power
to make laws binding the States in all cases whatever. Our country has
thought otherwise. Has he aquiesced?

Note: It is of some interest to note the capitalization in the final
      opinion, it is Jeffersons.


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |            When a man assumes a public trust, he should            |
   |            consider himself public property.                       |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                      Thomas Jefferson              |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 08:35:08 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: New technology around the corner [slashdot.org] (fwd)
Message-ID: <199802190037.SAA13835@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 01:21:32 +0100 (MET)
> Subject: Re: New technology around the corner [slashdot.org]
> From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)

> Tim May wrote:
> 
> > Or how about plastic cubes that can store terabytes....
> 
> 
> They work fine.  Just keep it in liquid nitrogen or you'll lose all your
> data.

This only applies to semiconductor systems. Also, liquid Nitrogen is cheaper
to purchase than beer, liter for liter. Also with Peltier devices it is quite
possible to keep such systems working for extended periods of time. Simply
review some of the Nitrogen based IR viewing systems that are being used by
amatuer astronomers.

However, there are technologies being worked on now, protein memory for
example, that offer equal 3d packing factors and don't require esoteric
cooling systems.


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |            When a man assumes a public trust, he should            |
   |            consider himself public property.                       |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                      Thomas Jefferson              |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 10:50:12 +0800
To: kalliste@aci.net>
Subject: the Court's private encryption key
Message-ID: <34EB9A94.42D4@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Wednesday 2/18/98 7:23 PM

J Orlin Grabbe
John Young

I just spoke with Bill Goldrick.

Read about Goldrick in Deep Black by William Burrows.

Goldrick was the Sandia supervisor who supervised installation
the Norwegian seismic system.  And supervised the second
data authenticator.  And reviewed my SAND report.

We talked about data authentication.  And its problems.

I looked at Svet's February 10, 1998 ORDER

And thought about

Digital File Stamp

 This document consists of an official stamp of the Court 
and, if attached to the document identified above, servers an
endorsed copy of the pleading.  It may be used in lieu of the Court's 
mechanical file stamp for the named document only, and
misuse will be treated the same as misuse of the Court's official 
mechanical file stamp.  The Court's digital signature is a verifiable 
mathematical computation unique to the filed document and the 
Court's private encryption key.  This signature assures
that any changes can be detected.

Think devious.  

By way of deception.

But this for later.

Allahu Akbar
bill






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: rdew@el.nec.com (Bob De Witt)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 12:14:09 +0800
To: jkwilli2@unity.ncsu.edu
Subject: Re: bugged?
Message-ID: <199802190400.UAA13074@yginsburg.el.nec.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



TATTOOMAN,

Ken Williams  wrote on Wed Feb 18 10:28:21 1998:
> Breezy > On Tue, 17 Feb 1998, Breezy wrote:
> >Babu Mengelepouti wrote:
> >> Ken Williams wrote:
> >> > ...
> >> > I got pgp 5.0. which will not work with your version. Upgrade man :-)
> >> He's the one who needs to change his version... to 2.6.x
> >Why use 2.6.x vs 5.0?  Is 5.0 not as stable or something?  Not as good?
> >...
> >====/------ Breezy ----------------------------/ 
> >===/---- ebresie@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu ----------/ 
> >==/---- http://ccwf.cc.utexas.edu/~ebresie --/
> 
> PGP v2.6.2 for UNIX is RSA, and cannot decrypt anything crypted with 
> PGP v5.x.  v5.0 for UNIX features the DSS/Diffie-Hellman algorithm that
> all the other 5.x versions have.  v5.0 is stable, better, and is basically
> the current standard.  it is more script-friendly and has a better
> command-line.
> 
> basically, it really sucks when every encrypted message i have gotten in
> the past week was encrypted with RSA/DSS and i couldn't decrypt it with
> the v2.6.2 that is installed at work.  due to space limitations on my
> volume server and our nihilistic copyrighted software policy, my only
> solution/option at the moment is to bring my laptop to work just for
> message decryption.
> 
> i've sent in a software request for a PGP upgrade on the network, but due
> to the expensive PGP licensing agreements and the fact that we have close

NO, NO.  PGP licensing agreements are by the server, not by the client.  You
need 1 server in each local net, on an exported partition (drive).  Then the
users can run it from UNIX(NT).  You still have to combine the public keys 
onto a single keyring, but ...

BTW, arrange your contracts in two chuncks.  The small one has the high 
priced service agreement, and the large one has the licenses for the user
majority.

> to 50,000 active users, i don't expect anything to be done.
> 
> guess state employees don't have the right to privacy any more huh?
> and neither do the studnets here for that matter...
> 
> TATTOOMAN

Luck,

Bob De Witt,
rdew@el.nec.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 09:58:46 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Quantum transistor breakthrough? [slashdot.org]
Message-ID: <199802190203.UAA14286@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> X-within-URL: http://www.slashdot.org/

>    Quantum Transitors Trumpeted! Contributed by mojoski on Wed Feb 18
>    20:08:01 1998 EST
>    [Technology] From the bragging-on-my-bro Dept
>    In what can only be described as a huge advance in quantum transitior
>    technolgy, The San Jose Mercury News is reporting that researchers at
>    Sandia National Laboratories have demonstrated a method of making
>    these devices stable enough for potential use in computing
>    applications.
>    
>    The Sandia quantum transistor is not the first to use a quantum
>    mechanical effect called ``tunneling'' to compute. Experimental
>    quantum tunneling devices were first made nearly a decade ago.
>    
>    But Sandia's is the first to be made using common manufacturing
>    techniques that would allow many of the devices to be strung together
>    to compute en masse, said physicist Jerry Simmons, leader of the
>    Sandia development team.
>    
>    And you know what the coolest part of this story is? Jerry Simmons is
>    my brother! Go man, go! I can only hope that he'll remember the little
>    people in his life when he sells this technology to chipmakers
>    world-wide! *wink*
>    Add a Comment?

>    Sco Emulates Win95 Contributed by CmdrTaco
>    Wed Feb 18 12:06:03 1998 EST
>    From the emulate-the-enemy dept.
>    joe wrote in to tell us that SCO now has a Win5 emulator available.
>    Read about it here. Between Wine, Wabi, OS/2 and others emulating 95,
>    it's getting closer and closer to a point where you can try a new OS
>    without giving up your old software. This is important stuff people.
>    Read More...
>    27 comment(s)

>    New DES Clients Contributed by CmdrTaco
>    [Encryption] Wed Feb 18 12:02:38 1998 EST
>    From the bits-and-bytes dept.
>    phi1abole wrote in to let us know that a new batch of Des Clients are
>    available for download. This gives me a good chance to once again plug
>    Slashdot's DES2 Team. We're ranked #8 overall. With over 2/3rds of the
>    keyspace searched, this contest is almost toast.
>    Read More...
>    5 comment(s)


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |            When a man assumes a public trust, he should            |
   |            consider himself public property.                       |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                      Thomas Jefferson              |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 11:52:06 +0800
To: j orlin grabbe 
Subject: rushdie list
Message-ID: <34EBA748.689C@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Orlin

Best to try to keep off the list.

  August 1991, Shapour Bakhtiar and Soroush Katibeh are killed in  
Suresnes, France.

Title: Iranian Martyrs





This page is dedicated to all those who stood up against tyranny

KNOW THAT BEHIND EACH NUMBER, AND EACH NAME,
THERE IS A MAN, A WOMAN, A CHILD,
A FACE, A SMILE, A TEAR
PUT YOURSELF IN PLACE OF THE CONDEMNED AND
IMAGINE
THE SOLITUDE AND LONELINESS OF THE MOMENT
WHEN THEY COME TO TAKE THEM AWAY,
THIS LAST VOYAGE,
WHERE ARE YOU AT THIS VERY MOMENT, PARTISAN OF HUMAN RIGHTS ?
WHY HAS THE WORLD SUDDENLY BECOME A VAST
DESERT WHERE THERE EXISTS ONLY THE VICTIM AND HIS EXECUTIONERS ?
HOW MUCH LONGER CAN YOU STAY SILENT ?

Below is a list of all those who were affiliated to NAMIR  or its military wing - NEGHAB - and
were murdered by the Islamic Republic of Iran : 
Date         Location           Name                    
04/07/1980   Tehran             A.Mohagheghi (general)
04/07/1980   Tehran             G.Ghayeghran (non-commissioned officer : pilot)
04/07/1980   Tehran             F.Jahangiri (non-commissioned officer : pilot)
04/07/1980   Tehran             A.Kamiani 
04/07/1980   Tehran             A.Karimbar
30/07/1980   Tehran             H.Kazemi (non-commissioned officer)
30/071980    Tehran             M.Moradi (non-commissioned officer)
30/07/1980   Tehran             S.Norouzi (sergeant)
30/07/1980   Tehran             A.Mohamadi
30/07/1980   Tehran             M.Assangochai
30/07/1980   Tehran             Y.Mahboubian
30/07/1980   Tehran             E.Mamaghani
30/07/1980   Tehran             N.Sedarat
30/07/1980   Tehran             E.Baroukhim
30/07/1980   Tehran             M.B.Fard (lieutenant)
30/07/1980   Neyshabur          Y.Khadjeh
30/07/1980   Neyshabur          G.Jafari
31/07/1980   Tehran             M.Farzam (lieutenant)
31/07/1980   Tehran             H. Karimpurtari (non-commissioned officer)
31/07/1980   Tehran             D.Jalaii (colonel)
31/07/1980   Tehran             N.Yahyaii (lieutenant)
31/07/1980   Tehran             N.Najaf-Nejad (sergeant)
07/08/1980   Tehran             I. Soltani (corporal)
07/08/1980   Tehran             H.Lashkari (lieutenant-pilot)
07/08/1980   Tehran             M.Saghafi (lieutenant-pilot)
07/08/1980   Tehran             A.Zarineh (colonel)
07/08/1980   Tehran             H.Gohari (major)
07/08/1980   Tehran             K.Alizadeh (major)
07/08/1980   Tehran             A.Morvaridi (sergeant)
07/08/1980   Tehran             S.Pourfahmideh (lieutenant)
07/08/1980   Tehran             M.Najafabadi (lieutenant)
07/08/1980   Tehran             M.Zahedi (lieutenant)
07/08/1980   Tehran             M.Asgharian (non-commissioned officer)
07/08/1980   Tehran             H.Abedini
07/08/1980   Tehran             F.Azarian (lieutenant)
16/08/1980   Tehran             E.Arab-Shirazi
16/08/1980   Tehran             A.Awazzadeh 
16/08/1980   Tehran             M.Sajadi (non-commissioned officer)
16/08/1980   Tehran             M.Farahpour
16/08/1980   Tehran             Z.Momeni
16/08/1980   Tehran             G.Khergani (sergeant)
16/08/1980   Tehran             M.Kiani (sergeant)
16/08/1980   Tehran             D.Bakhtiar
16/08/1980   Tehran             G.NaghibZadeh (non-commissioned officer)
16/08/1980   Tehran             H.Zamanpour (flight-lieutenant)
16/08/1980   Tehran             K.Azartash (major)
16/08/1980   Tehran             A.Azmudeh (colonel)
16/08/1980   Tehran             C.Ahmadi (lieutenant)
16/08/1980   Tehran             S.Mahdiun (general-pilot)
16/08/1980   Tehran             M.Farnejad (non-commissioned officer)
16/08/1980   Tehran             K.Mohamadi-Koubaii (non-commissioned officer)
16/08/1980   Tehran             M.Tightiz (non-commissioned officer)
18/08/1980   Tehran             M.Mirlaki (non-commissioned officer)
18/08/1980   Tehran             M.Abedini-Moghadam (non-commissioned officer0
18/08/1980   Tehran             K.Rahmati (non-commissioned officer)
18/08/1980   Tehran             P.Bayani (non-commissioned officer)
18/08/1980   Tehran             L.Lotfolahi (non-commissioned officer)
18/08/1980   Tehran             A.Habibi (lieutenant)
18/08/1980   Tehran             N.Zandi (flight lieutenant pilot)
18/08/1980   Tehran             C.Karimian (sergeant)
18/08/1980   Tehran             O.Boyeri (flight lieutenant)
18/08/1980   Tehran             A.Soleimani (flight lieutenant)
18/08/1980   Tehran             D.Mazaheri-Kashani
18/08/1980   Tehran             D.Fatehjou (non-commissioned officer)
18/08/1980   Tehran             A.Pourkarbassi-Dehi (non-commissioned officer)
18/08/1980   Tehran             D.Fateh-Firouz (non-commissioned officer)
18/08/1980   Tehran             K.Afrouz (flight lieutenant)
18/08/1980   Tehran             M.Azimifar (flight lieutenant)
21/08/1980   Tehran             M.Arad (lieutenant)
21/08/1980   Tehran             M.Sadeghi (colonel)
21/08/1980   Tehran             H.Izadi (colonel)
21/08/1980   Tehran             Asghari
25/08/1980   Tehran             D.Rahbar (non-commissioned officer)
25/08/1980   Tehran             G.Hamedani (non-commissioned officer)
25/08/1980   Tehran             F.Javaherian (non-commissioned officer)
25/08/1980   Tehran             M.Zade-Naderi (non-commissioned officer)
26/08/1980   Tehran             G.Hejazi (female)
26/08/1980   Tehran             D.Shomali
26/08/1980   Tehran             H.Ahmadi
26/08/1980   Esfahan            M.Altani
26/08/1980   Esfahan            H.Karimi
26/08/1980   Esfahan            S.Mozaii
26/08/1980   Esfahan            H.Dari
26/08/1980   Esfahan            A.Allahverdi
26/08/1980   Esfahan            S.Hemati
26/08/1980   Esfahan            M.Vesaali
26/08/1980   Esfahan            B.Nikbakht (female)
26/08/1980   Esfahan            E.Biglari
26/08/1980   Esfahan            J.Hemati
26/08/1980   Esfahan            E.Karimi
26/08/1980   Esfahan            M.Karimi
28/08/1980   Tehran             S.Bassani (female)
28/08/1980   Tehran             M.T.Bahrami (non-commissioned officer)
29/08/1980   Tehran             A.Almasi (lieutenant)
29/09/1980   Tehran             H.Haleki (lieutenant)
29/08/1980   Tehran             M.R.Javadi (lieutenant)
29/08/1980   Tehran             H.Ahmadi (non-commissioned officer)
29/08/1980   Tehran             J.Ranjbar (non-commissioned officer)
30/08/1980   Tehran             A.Azizian (major)
30/08/1980   Tehran             R.Soltani (colonel)
30/08/1980   Tehran             A.Faria (colonel)
30/08/1980   Tehran             I.Derakhshandeh (non-commissioned officer)
30/08/1980   Tehran             M.Bahrami
30/08/1980   Tehran             S.Shahbeui (colonel)
30/08/1980   Tehran             I.Khalafbegi (major)
30/08/1980   Tehran             K.Keyvanfar
30/08/1980   Ahwaz              M.Borati (corporal)
30/08/1980   Ahwaz              I.Marvdashti (non-commissioned officer)
30/08/1980   Ahwaz              R.Yahyapasand (lieutenant)
30/08/1980   Ahwaz              M.A.Mehrabi (non-commissioned officer)
30/08/1980   Ahwaz              O.Atashboro
30/08/1980   Ahwaz              S.Sotoudeh
01/09/1980   Tehran             D.Asghari (officer)
01/09/1980   Tehran             D.Raastgu (lieutenant)
01/09/1980   Tehran             M.Fatahi-Nourdehi (non-commissioned officer)
03/09/1980   Ahwaz             M.Hokmabadtchi (sergeant)
03/09/1980   Ahwaz             E.Ostad-Nazari (lieutenant)
03/09/1980   Ahwaz             F.Reissi (lieutenant)
03/09/1980   Ahwaz             S.Dehgan (lieutenant)
09/09/1980   Tehran            M.Sayah (sergeant)
09/09/1980   Tehran            M.Rahbai-Nejad (lieutenant)
09/09/1980   Tehran            M.Tajvari (lieutenant)
09/09/1980   Tehran            B.Partovi (major)
09/09/1980   Tehran            H.Mostafavi 
11/09/1980   Tehran            K.Atri
11/09/1980   Tehran            M.Sadeghi (colonel)
11/09/1980   Tehran            M.Sohaneki
11/09/1980   Tehran            N.Morovati (lieutenant)
11/09/1980   Tehran            N.Sajadi (non-commissioned officer)
11/09/1980   Tehran            A.Mohammad (soldier)
11/09/1980   Tehran            A.Shafigh (flight lieutenant)
16/09/1980   Tehran            M.Tabrizi-Khatun
16/09/1980   Tehran            E.Azadighaneh (non-commissioned officer)
16/09/1980   Tehran            M.Jalali-Ghajar (major)
16/09/1980   Tehran            S.Nour
13/071981    Tehran            M.Khadem
10/08/1981   Tehran            Amir-Tahmasbi (major)
10/08/1981   Tehran            A.Abdolmalek-Pour (colonel)
10/08/1981   Tehran            Didehvar (colonel)
10/08/1981   Tehran            Mohajeri
23/12/1981   Tehran            R.Marzban
23/12/1981   Tehran            A.Mohebi
30/01/1982   Tehran            A.Amir-Tahmasbi (colonel)
30/01/1982   Tehran            K.Yarahmadi
30/01/1982   Tehran            E.Seyrafi (colonel)
30/01/1982   Tehran            A.Foroughi (colonel)
30/01/1982   Tehran            A.Abdol-Malekpour
30/01/1982   Tehran            G.Rahimi (colonel)
30/01/1982   Tehran            M.Sabah (colonel)
30/01/1982   Tehran            G.Biglou
30/01/1982   Tehran            A.Mohajeri
30/01/1982   Tehran            M.Lotfzari
30/01/1982   Tehran            G.Naghib-Manesh
30/01/1982   Tehran            G.Didehvar (colonel)
30/01/1982   Tehran            G.Shahandeh-Ashtiani
30/01/1982   Tehran            M.Khashayar
11/09/1982   Tehran            R.Shahbakhti
11/09/1982   Tehran            H.Moghbelzadeh

 of these victims, none had the rights 
 of an accused as foreseen in 
 the Universal Declaration of  Human Rights 
.............................................


Report on the Islamic Republic's Terrorism abroad
   
Since the advent of the Islamic Republic in Iran, terrorist attempts have targeted exiled Iranians as well as citizens
of other countries, condemned as heretics, around the world.  These attacks were ordered by the Islamic government 
of Iran.
   

1. In July 1980, Shapour Bakhtiar escapes an assassination attempt in Paris, France.  A French policeman and a 
    neighbor are killed and one policeman is seriously injured.
2. In July 1980, Ali Tabatabai is killed in Washington D.C., United States.
3. In 1981, Shahriar Shafigh is killed in Paris, France.
4. In January 1982, Shahrokh Missaghi is killed in Manila, Philippines.
5. In April 1982, a young German student is killed during the attack of the residence of Iranian students in Mainzer,
    Germany, by the pro-Iranian Hezbollah.
6. In June 1982, Shahram Mirani is fatally wounded in India.
7. In August 1982, Ahmad Zol-Anvar is fatally wounded in Karachi, Pakistan.
8. In September 1982, Abdolamir Rahdar is killed in India.
9. In 1982, Colonel Ahmad Hamed is killed in Istanbul, Turkey.
10. In February 1983, Esfandiar Rahimi is killed in Manila, Philippines.
11. In February 1984, Gholam-Ali Oveissi and his brother, Gholam-Hossein, are killed in Paris, France.
12. In August 1985, Behrouz Shahverdilou is killed in Istanbul, Turkey.
13. In December 1985, Hadi Aziz-Moradi is killed in Istanbul, Turkey.
14. In August 1986, Bijan Fazeli is killed in London, Great Britain.
15. In December 1986, Vali Mohammad Van is killed in Pakistan.
16. In January 1987, Ali-Akbar Mohammadi is killed in Hamburg, Germany.
17. In May 1987, Hamid Reza Chitgar disappears in Vienna, Austria and is found assassinated in July.
18. In July 1987, Faramarz-Aghaď and Ali-Reza Pourshafizadeh are killed and twenty-three persons 
      are wounded in residences of Iranian refugees Karachi and Quetta, Pakistan.
19. In July 1987, Amir-Hossein Amir-Parviz is seriously wounded by the explosion of a bomb placed in his car
      in London, England.
20. In July 1987, Mohammad-Hassan Mansouri is shot dead in his house Istanbul, Turkey.
21. In August 1987, Ahmad Moradi-Talebi is killed in Geneva, Switzerland.
22. In October 1987, Mohammad-Ali Tavakoli-Nabavi and his youngest son, Noureddin, are killed in 
      Wembley,  Great Britain.
23. In October 1987, Abol-Hassan Modjtahed-Zadeh is kidnapped in Istanbul, Turkey. 
24. In December 1988, an Iranian refugee is assassinated in front of the headquarters of the United Nations High 
      Commissioner for Refugees in Karachi, Pakistan.
25. In June 1989, Ataollah Bay Ahmadi is killed in the Emirate of Dubai.
26. In July 1989, Abdol-Rahman Ghassemlou and Abdollah Ghaderi and Fazel Rassoul are killed in Vienna, Austria.
27. In August 1989, Gholam Keshavarz is killed in Cyprus.
28. In September 1989, Sadigh Kamangar is assassinated in the north of Iraq.
29. In September 1989, Hossein Keshavarz, victim of a terrorist attempt, is paralyzed for life.
30. In February 1990, Hadj Baloutch-Khan is killed by a terrorist commando in Pakistan.
31. In Mars 1990, Hossein Mir-Abedini is wounded by an armed commando in the airport of Istanbul, Turkey.
32. In April 1990, Kazem Radjavi is killed in Coppet, Switzerland.
33. In July 1990, Ali Kashefpour is kidnapped and killed in Turkey.
34. In September 1990, Efat Ghazi is killed in Sweden by a bomb intended for her husband.
35. In October 1990, Cyrus Elahi is killed in Paris, France.
36. In April 1991, Abdol-Rahman Boroumand is killed in Paris, France.
37. In July 1991, Alberto Capriolo is wounded in Milan, Italy.
38. In July 1991, Hitoshi Igarashi is killed in Tokyo, Japan.
39. In July 1991, Ahad Agha is killed in Suleimanya, iraq.
40. In August 1991, Shapour Bakhtiar and Soroush Katibeh are killed in Suresnes, France.
41. In September 1991, Saďd Yazdan-Panah is fatally wounded in iraq.
42. In December 1991, Massoud Rajavi escapes a terrorist attempt in Baghdad, iraq.
43. In January 1992, Kamran Hedayati is wounded opening a letter bomb in Vastros, Sweden.  He looses his 
      sight and his hands.
44. In May 1992, Shapour Firouzi is killed in Iraq.
45. In July 1992, Kamran Mansour-Moghadam is killed in Suleymania, Iraq.
46. In August 1992, Fereydoun Farokhzad is killed in Bonn, Germany.
47. In September 1992, Sadegh Sharafkandi, Fatah Abdoli, Homayoun Ardalan and Nouri Dehkordi are killed in 
      Berlin, Germany.
48. In January 1993, Ugur Mumcu is killed in Ankara, Turkey.
49. In February 1993, the fundamentalist terrorists in Turkey admit to have kidnapped and killed Ali-Akbar Ghorbani
      who had disappeared in June 1992 in Turkey.
50. In March 1993, Mohammad-Hossein Naghdi is killed in Rome, Italy.
51. In June 1993, Mohammad-Hassan Arbab is killed in Karachi, Pakistan
52. In October 1993, Turkish fundamentalists admit having tortured and killed for Iranian officials, Abbas Gholizadeh
      who was kidnapped in Istanbul, Turkey in December 1992.
53. In November 1993, William Nygaard is wounded in Oslo, Norway.
54. In January, 1994, Taha Kermanj is killed in Corum, Turkey. 
55. In August 1994, Ghafour Hamzei'i is killed in Baghdad, iraq.
56. In February 1996, Zahra Rajabi and Ali Moradi were killed in Istanbul, Turkey.
57. In March 1996, Ali Mollazadeh was killed in Karachi, Pakistan. 
58. In May 1996, Reza Mazlouman ( Kourosh Aryamanesh) was killed in Paris, France.

Due to the lack of reliable information, this list of terrorist attempts is not exhaustive. Undoubtedly, since the 
advent of the Islamic Republic, the number of extra-judicial executions outside Iran, in particular in Pakistan, 
Turkey and Iraq is higher.  Also, this report deliberately leaves out well known terrorist attacks ordered by Tehran, 
such as: the hostage crisis of the US embassy in Tehran in 1979; the kidnapping of British, American and French 
citizens in Lebanon by pro-Iranian Hezbollah; the explosive attack on the American and French military headquarters
in Lebanon, which were publicly claimed by Mohsen Rafighdoust, then head of the Revolutionary Guards  ; the wave 
of terrorist bombing in Paris in 1986, which resulted in the death of 13 persons and the wounding of hundreds of 
others; the death sentence against Salman Rushdie for writing The Satanic Verses; and the Dahran terrorist attempts
that targeted the American military in Saudi Arabia.



Title: NSA, Crypto AG, and the Iraq-Iran Conflict




 [Email Reply] 


NSA, Crypto AG, and the Iraq-Iran Conflict


          by J. Orlin Grabbe




	One of the dirty little secrets of the 1980s is that 
the U.S. regularly provided Iraq's Saddam Hussein with 
top-secret communication intercepts by the U.S. National 
Security Agency (NSA).  Consider the evidence.

	When in 1991 the government of Kuwait paid the 
public relations firm of Hill & Knowlton ten million 
dollars to drum up American war fever against the evil 
dictator Hussein, it brought about the end of a long legacy 
of cooperation between the U.S. and Iraq.  Hill & 
Knowlton resurrected the World War I propaganda story 
about German soldiers roasting Belgian babies on 
bayonets, updated in the form of a confidential witness 
(actually the daughter of the Kuwaiti ambassador to the 
U.S.) who told Congress a tearful story of Iraqi soldiers 
taking Kuwaiti babies out of incubators and leaving them 
on the cold floor to die.  President George Bush then 
repeated this fabricated tale in speeches ten times over the 
next three days.

	What is remarkable about this staged turn of 
events is that, until then, Hussein had operated largely 
with U.S. approval.  This cooperation had spanned three 
successive administrations, starting with Jimmy Carter.  
As noted by John R. MacArthur, "From 1980 to 1988, 
Hussein had shouldered the burden of killing about 
150,000 Iranians, in addition to at least thirteen thousand 
of his own citizens, including several thousand unarmed 
Kurdish civilians, and in the process won the admiration 
and support of elements of three successive U.S. 
Administrations" [1].

	Hussein's artful slaughter of Iranians was aided by 
good military intelligence.  The role of NSA in the 
conflict is an open secret in Europe, the Middle East, and 
Asia.  Only in this country has there been a relative news 
blackout, despite the fact that it was the U.S. 
administration that let the crypto cat out of the bag.  

	First, U.S. President Ronald Reagan informed the 
world on national television that the United States was 
reading Libyan communications.  This admission was part 
of a speech justifying the retaliatory bombing of Libya for 
its alleged involvement in the La Belle discotheque 
bombing in Berlin's Schoeneberg district, where two U.S. 
soldiers and a Turkish woman were killed, and 200 others 
injured. Reagan wasn't talking about American 
monitoring of Libyan news broadcasts. Rather, his "direct, 
precise, and undeniable proof"  referred to secret 
(encrypted) diplomatic communication between Tripoli 
and the Libyan embassy in East Berlin.

	Next, this leak was compound by the U.S. 
demonstration that it was also reading secret Iranian 
communications.  As reported in Switzerland's Neue 
Zurcher Zeitung,  the U.S. provided the contents of 
encrypted Iranian messages to France to assist in the 
conviction of Ali Vakili Rad and Massoud Hendi for the 
stabbing death in the Paris suburb of Suresnes of the 
former Iranian prime minister Shahpour Bakhtiar and his 
personal secretary Katibeh Fallouch. [2]
 
	What these two countries had in common was they 
had both purchased cryptographic communication 
equipment from the Swiss firm Crypto AG. Crypto AG 
was founded in 1952 by the (Russian-born) Swedish 
cryptographer Boris Hagelin who located his company in  
Zug.  Boris had created the "Hagelin-machine", a 
encryption device similar to the German "Enigma".  The 
Hagelin machine was used on the side of the Allies in 
World War II.

	Crypto AG was an old and venerable firm, and 
Switzerland was a neutral country. So Crypto AG's 
enciphering devices for voice communication and digital 
data networks were popular, and customers came from 
130 countries. These included the Vatican, as well the 
governments of Iraq, Iran, and Libya.  Such countries 
were naturally skeptical of cryptographic devices sold in 
many NATO countries, so turned to relatively neutral 
Switzerland for communication security.

	Iran demonstrated its suspicion about the source of 
the leaks, when it arrested Hans Buehler, a top salesman 
for Crypto AG, in Teheran on March 18, 1992.  During 
his nine and a half months of solitary confinement in Evin 
prison in Teheran, Buehler was questioned again and 
again whether he had leaked Teheran's codes or Libya's 
keys to Western powers.  Luckily Buehler didn't know 
anything.  He in fact believed in his own sales pitch that 
Crypto AG was a neutral company and its equipment was 
the best.  They were Swiss, after all.  [3]

	Crypto AG eventually paid one million dollars for 
Buehler's release in January 1993, then promptly fired 
him once they had reassured themselves that he hadn't 
revealed anything important under interrogation, and 
because Buehler had begun to ask some embarrassing 
questions. Then reports appeared on Swiss television, 
Swiss Radio International, all the major Swiss papers, and 
in German magazines like Der Spiegel.  Had Crypto AG's 
equipment been spiked by Western intelligence services? 
the media wanted to know. The answer was Yes [4].

	 Swiss television traced the ownership of Crypto 
AG to a company in Liechtenstein, and from there back to 
a trust company in Munich. A witness appearing on Swiss 
television explained the real owner was the German 
government--the Federal Estates Administration. [5]

        According to Der Spiegel, all but 6 of the 6000 
shares of Crypto AG were at one time owned by Eugen 
Freiberger, who resided in Munich and was head of the 
Crypto AG managing board in 1982. Another German, 
Josef Bauer, an authorized tax agent of the Muenchner 
Treuhandgesellschaft KPMG, and who was elected to the 
managing board in 1970, stated that his mandate had 
come from the German company Siemens.  Other 
members of Crypto AG's management had also worked at 
Siemens. Was the German secret service, the 
Bundesnachrichtendienst (BND), hiding behind the 
Siemens' connection?

        So it would seem.  Der Spiegel reported that in 
October 1970, a secret meeting of the BND had discussed 
how the Swiss company Graettner could be guided into 
closer cooperation with Crypto AG, or could even merged 
with it. The BND additionally considered how "the 
Swedish company Ericsson could be influenced through 
Siemens to terminate its own cryptographic business." [6]

	A former employee of Crypto AG reported that he 
had to coordinate his developments with "people from 
Bad Godesberg". This was the location of the "central 
office for encryption affairs" of the BND, and the service 
instructed Crypto AG what algorithms to use to create the 
codes.  The employee also remembers an American 
"watcher", who strongly demanded the use of certain 
encryption methods.

	Representatives from NSA visited Crypto AG 
often. A memorandum of  a secret workshop at Crypto 
AG in August 1975, where a new prototype of an 
encryption device was demonstrated, mentions the 
participation of Nora L. Mackebee, an NSA 
cryptographer. Motorola engineer Bob Newman says that 
Mackebee was introduced to him as a "consultant".  
Motorola cooperated with Crypto AG in the seventies in 
developing a new generation of electronic encryption 
machines.   The Americans "knew Zug very well and gave 
travel tips to the Motorola people for the visit at Crypto 
AG," Newman told Der Spiegel.

	Knowledgeable sources indicate that the Crypto 
AG enciphering process, developed in cooperation with 
the NSA and the German company Siemans, involved 
secretly embedding the decryption key in the cipher text.  
Those who knew where to look could monitor the 
encrypted communication, then extract the decryption key 
that was also part of the transmission, and recover the 
plain text message.  Decryption of a message by a 
knowledgeable third party was not any more difficult than
it was for the intended receiver.  (More than one method 
was used.  Sometimes the algorithm was simply deficient, 
with built-in exploitable weaknesses.)

	Crypto AG denies all this, of course, saying such 
reports are ""pure invention".

	What information was provided to Saddam 
Hussein exactly?  Answers to this question are currently 
being sought in a lawsuit against NSA in New Mexico, 
which has asked to see "all Iranian messages and 
translations between January 1, 1980 and June 10, 1996". 
[7]

	The passage of top-secret communications 
intelligence to someone like Saddam Hussein brings up 
other questions.  Which dictator is the U.S. passing top 
secret messages to currently?  Jiang Zemin?  Boris 
Yeltsin?  

	Will Saddam Hussein again become a recipient of 
NSA largess if he returns to the mass slaughter of 
Iranians?  What exactly is the purpose of NSA anyway?

	One more question:  Who is reading the Pope's 
communications?


Bibliography

[1] John R. MacArthur, Second Front: Censorship and 
Propaganda in the Gulf War, Hill and Wang, New York, 
1992.

[2] Some of the background of this assassination can be 
found in "The Tehran Connection," Time Magazine, 
March 21, 1994.

[3] The Buehler case is detailed in Res Strehle, 
Verschleusselt: der Fall Hans Beuhler, Werd Verlag, 
Zurich, 1994.  

[4] "For years, NSA secretly rigged Crypto AG machines 
so that U.S. eavesdroppers could easily break their codes, 
according to former company employees whose story is 
supported by company documents,"  "No Such Agency, 
Part 4: Rigging the Game," The Baltimore Sun, December 
4, 1995.

[5] Reported in programs about the Buehler case that were 
broadcast on Swiss Radio International on May 15, 1994 
and July 18, 1994.

[6]  "Wer ist der befugte Vierte?":  Geheimdienste 
unterwandern den Schutz von Verschlusselungsgeraten," 
Der Spiegel 36, 1996.

[7] U.S. District Court for the District of New Mexico, 
William H. Payne, Arthur R. Morales, Plaintiffs, v. 
Lieutenant General Kenneth A. Minihan, USAF, Director 
of National Security Agency, National Security Agency, 
Defendant, CIV NO 97 0266 SC/DJS.

November 2, 1997
Web Page: http://www.aci.net/kalliste/






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 04:15:48 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199802182008.VAA17760@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Two spam-ignorati wrote:

>>Don't get me wrong; I don't *like* spam. But
>>for me it's a minor problem, certainly not
>>worthy of legal remedies. I'm willing to suffer
>>a certain level of foolish annoyance gladly
>>in return for liberty.

>Same for me. I can delete commercial advertisements ("spam") in
seconds.

I used to have the same attitude. But then I started running a mail
server.

Routinely I find spammers attempting to use my server as a relay for
their crap. The undeliverable notifications fill up my postmaster mail
box so that I have to spend much more than "a few seconds" to sort out
this virtual mail bomb from the legitimate notifications I need to do
something about.

Current I am chasing some asshole from ISP to ISP in Arizona, shutting
him down only to have him get a new account with another ISP and "mail
bomb" me from there.

I would gladly prosecute, as this person is no better than a thief,
stealing my resources and time so he can run his con.


BTW, the reason I sent anon is so other spammers don't get my host name
and try to use it as a relay.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 11:14:59 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Where to buy Terra byte protein ram/rom... [slashdot.org]
Message-ID: <199802190322.VAA14603@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> X-within-URL: http://www.slashdot.org/slashdot.cgi?mode=article&artnum=00000702

>    Gernot Bauer wrote in to tell us a bit more about organic chips. He
>    writes "Computer chips are nowerdays made on the base of silicon.
>    German computing magazine "c't" wrote about an Norwegian company
>    called Opticom which claims that its ready for series production of
>    organic mass memory (RAM/ROM and all that nice stuff). Imagine 170
>    Terra-Bytes for a few cents. Read here how it works and what you can
>    expect if this technology is widely used (the article was translated
>    to english). Will new types of real virus be able to trash not only
>    your system but also your hardware?"

Note this company is claiming 'series production' meaning you can go out and
buy them.

I tramped over the web but couldn't find a website for them. If anybody
knows somebody in Norway please ask them to contact the company and get us
some information...please.


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |            When a man assumes a public trust, he should            |
   |            consider himself public property.                       |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                      Thomas Jefferson              |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC 
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 14:14:03 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: SAHMD / Porlo
Message-ID: <009C2049.D1802500.47@west.cscwc.pima.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain









From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Netscape Communications" 
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 13:34:29 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Email Survey Form
Message-ID: <1A33705099E@mail.selectnet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain








   Thank you for downloading one or more trial versions of Netscape Server
   applications from our Web site.  We appreciate your interest in taking
   the time to evaluate some of our newest and most exciting products.

   We would like to follow-up with you to learn more about your company
   environment and better understand your needs.  To do so, please click
   below or copy the URL site address listed below.

   http://netscape.web-register.com/cgi/netscape/form/www_form?x=141270     

   If you experience problems entering the site, and are prompted to enter a
   customer ID number; your number is 141270  - or you may call 1-888-349-3100.

   Netscape respects your online time and Internet privacy.  If you would
   prefer not to receive future online surveys, please go to the site listed
   above and click on the box that has unsubscribe.

   Thank you for your time,

   Netscape Communications













From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC 
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 14:55:57 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: SAHMD / Prologue 2/0 (kinda)
Message-ID: <009C204F.7D120320.1@west.cscwc.pima.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



[Author's Note: This chapter, or continuation of the prologue,
 or whatever the fuck it is, contains an expose of the true
 diabolical nature of Lucky Green.
 Unfortunately, the only existing file-copy and printout are
 at the residence of a friend who is not currently at home,
 and it seems to be in my best interest to leave town in a
 hurry, without turning on my headlights and using only
 back roads and alleys.
 Anyone who is just so desperate to read Prologue 2/0 that
 they are peeing thier pants might want to email Jay Tolkoff
 at whatever internet address appears on Prologue 1/0 that
 was recently spammed to the CypherPunks list, pleading, 
 bribing, threatening or thanking him, in order to see if
 he might possibly be open to sending you (or the list) a
 copy of foresaid missive.
 At present, continuation of "Space Aliens Hide My Drugs"
 seems to be largely dependent upon the speed of my vehicle
 and the volume of my ammo supply. (The more things change,
 the more they remain insane.)
 And the good news is...
 As soon as I hit 'send', Baby and I will be hitting the
 road, under cover of darkness, with the sounds of Linda
 Lou and the Drifters belting out Leadbelly's "When I Was
 A Cowboy" in our wake.
 Don't get any on'ya...]





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 14:08:39 +0800
To: tcmay@got.net (Tim May)
Subject: Re: Dealing with Spam, Part 1
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199802190557.XAA00934@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Tim May wrote:
> At 7:12 PM -0800 2/17/98, Marek Jedlinski wrote:
> >Did you read to the point in my post when I said I would happily shut up if
> >there *was* technology available? I agree with your "basic philosophy",
> 
> Suppose someone said, "I will happily shut up and stop proposing laws to
> restrict online pornography if someone shows me that there is technology
> available to block it."?
> 
> How about, "I will happily shut up if there is technology to block bad
> thoughts from reaching me. Otherwise, I favor censorship."

To add to this, the spam blocking technology is widely available and can be
used by anyone with half brain. My spam filters make me spend no more than 
a minute or so a day on quickly reviewing and deleting spams.

I do it by saving all messages that are likely to be spam to a separate
folder. A quick browse through subject lines of these messages is enough
to delete them really quickly.

In the future such spam detection is going to become a lot harder. Perhaps
a system where the first time sender pays a refundable digital fee to
the reader will become necessary.

	- Igor.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 13:52:19 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Microsoft's World Domination Failing? [Forward]
Message-ID: <199802190558.XAA15432@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Hi,

>From somebody in the gun lobby industry who doesn't mind sharing their
opinion, though not their name...

Forwarded message:

> My attitude about Bill Gate$ is: Screw him!  Ever since he helped finance a
> recent anti-gun initiative in Washington state with over $1 million of
> personal cash, I've considered him an elitist jerk.  He recently sent out a
> chain e-mail in an attempt to collect e-mail addresses, offering $1,000 to
> any users who could stack 1,000 addresses below theirs.  I refused to
> forward it.


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |            When a man assumes a public trust, he should            |
   |            consider himself public property.                       |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                      Thomas Jefferson              |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Michael H. Warfield" 
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 16:00:05 +0800
To: nobody@replay.com
Subject: Re: Which is secure
In-Reply-To: <199802190454.FAA04010@basement.replay.com>
Message-ID: <199802190548.AAA27163@alcove.wittsend.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Anonymous enscribed thusly:

> Which is secure block cypher,or stream cypher?
> Thanks

	Yes.

	In other words...  It depends on things other than merely whether
it's block cypher or stream cypher.  Religious adherents on BOTH sides
may differ (and prove the point).

	Mike
-- 
 Michael H. Warfield    |  (770) 985-6132   |  mhw@WittsEnd.com
  (The Mad Wizard)      |  (770) 925-8248   |  http://www.wittsend.com/mhw/
  NIC whois:  MHW9      |  An optimist believes we live in the best of all
 PGP Key: 0xDF1DD471    |  possible worlds.  A pessimist is sure of it!





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 08:11:15 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: New technology around the corner [slashdot.org]
In-Reply-To: <199802181626.KAA11323@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <199802190002.BAA25350@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Tim May wrote:

> Or how about plastic cubes that can store terabytes....


They work fine.  Just keep it in liquid nitrogen or you'll lose all your
data.

Backyard fabs?  Quite doable with MBE or electron beam lithography.  Just
don't expect to do any mass-production on such a setup.


There's possible, and then there's practical.  You've ranted on that
subject a lot.  ("AMD can't make enough chips.")





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 08:25:32 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: New technology around the corner [slashdot.org]
In-Reply-To: <199802181626.KAA11323@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <199802190021.BAA28248@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Tim May wrote:

> Or how about plastic cubes that can store terabytes....


They work fine.  Just keep it in liquid nitrogen or you'll lose all your
data.

Backyard fabs?  Quite doable with MBE or electron beam lithography.  Just
don't expect to do any mass-production on such a setup.


There's possible, and then there's practical.  You've ranted on that
subject a lot.  ("AMD can't make enough chips.")





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 08:37:42 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Is spam really a problem?
In-Reply-To: <199802181733.SAA26244@basement.replay.com>
Message-ID: <199802190024.BAA28610@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Wei Dai wrote:

> The way I see it, the problem with spam isn't that it takes too much
> effort to delete them, but that it discourages useful advertisement
> through email. Email could be a very efficient way for companies to send
> valuable information to potential customers, but the incentives are such
> that virtually all unsolicited commercial email are of very low value
> and are deleted without being read.

Those of us outside of the Microsoft Marketing Machine have a different
opinion.  Frankly, I do not want to make Bill Gates's latest advertising
gimmick any more 'efficient' nor do I want to be his 'potential customer'.
I have had just about enough crap from Microsoft, which is why I deleted
JunkOS version 95, and use Linux instead.

When I open up my email and find twenty pieces of spam, like most people
I start hitting the delete key.  Last week I got a call from a friend...
"Didn't you get my email?"  "uh... no..."





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: mark@unicorn.com
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 20:18:16 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: MailGuard
Message-ID: <887890124.21343.193.133.230.33@unicorn.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>I think that this could easily be fixed by only sending out the request
>once then adding the address to the possiable spam list until a reply is
>received or there is user intervention.

Sure, but that doesn't stop the problem at the other end. According to
the company:

"Messages received from other copies of the 
program are either brought to the attention of the user, or (if the user 
so desires) result in the automatic transmission of a positive response to
the 
other copies of the program, which response causes the other copies of the 
program to 'approve' the user."

This implies that they have some 'magic marker' in the challenge messages
which forces the software to pass it on to the user. In which case, a
spammer can merely add this marker to his messages and they will get
through to anyone who has the software configured that way.

>I do not run WinBlows on any of my
>Inet connected machines so I can not test it here (well I could but I am
>not *that* intrested in it).

Ditto.

>Mailing list seem like they would be a problem as diferent mailing list
>use different formats. Unless the software is sophisticated enough to take
>this into account you could see alot of garbage being posted.

I've seen this problem with other active 'anti-spam' programs on other
lists; it's a real pain in the ass. They say the software handles lists
properly, but who knows?

>The fake e-mail address seems to be a real problem if they resolve to a
>valid domain let alone a valid e-mail address not belonging to the spamer.

Exactly; any kind of active anti-spam is a pain in the ass in this
case. I just filter and delete, which gets 95%+ of spam sent to my
account; 3MB in the last nine months, last I checked.

    Mark





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 13:07:18 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Which is secure
Message-ID: <199802190454.FAA04010@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Which is secure block cypher,or stream cypher?
Thanks
 
        





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Shostack 
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 20:47:49 +0800
To: ptrei@securitydynamics.com (Trei, Peter)
Subject: Re: I was auto-outed by an IMG tag in HTML spam
In-Reply-To: <6B5344C210C7D011835C0000F8012766010035D1@exna01.securitydynamics.com>
Message-ID: <199802191234.HAA20433@homeport.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



| > -----Original Message-----
| > From:	Anonymous [SMTP:anon@anon.efga.org]
| 	[Trei, Peter]  [edited]
| > They sent a message to my
| > off-site address (along with those of other critics about whom
| > they wanted to know more).  It was an HTML message with an
| > embedded IMG tag.
| > 
| > When Netscape saw that IMG
| > tag, it happily connected to marketing's "customer" tracking
| > server, and downloaded the keyed graphic.
| > 
| > My boss just let me see the log he got from the marketing VP,
| > showing clearly that my workstation read the message.  

	What exactly did that log say?

oops.netscape.com - - [15/Feb/1998:13:55:53 +0200] "GET /sekrit/tracilords.gif"

????

	Doesn't clearly show anything.  Theres IPspoofing.  Theres log
spoofing.  There's being forwarded the message by a buddy (or someone
avoiding the entrapment by forwarding the mail (anonymously) to
cypherpunks, thus getting hundreds of people who are totally
uninvolved to see it.

Adam

-- 
"It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once."
					               -Hume






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 15:23:42 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com
Subject: Re: I was auto-outed by an IMG tag in HTML spam
Message-ID: <199802190715.IAA21519@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



William H. Geiger III wrote:
>
>This could be a good sting opperation. Send an anonymous e-mail
>message that points to a childporn site. The [add your jackbooted
>thug orginization here] kick in your door as soon as they get the
>signal that your machine has connected to the site and downloaded
>the images.
>
>Hmmmm I wonder if there is a way to get the browser to DL an image
>without displaying it. The pictures would be sitting in your cache
>without even knowing it. Probably not a big issue I would imagine
>that a jury would convict on website logs alone even if no pictures
>were found on the machine.



would get shmeebs using netscab or microslop...





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 23:21:04 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Barnes & Nobles indicted on child porno... [CNN]
Message-ID: <199802191523.JAA16425@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

>           NATION'S LARGEST BOOKSELLER CHARGED WITH CHILD PORNOGRAPHY
>                                        
>      February 18, 1998
>      Web posted at: 10:28 p.m. EST (0328 GMT)
>      
>      MONTGOMERY, Alabama (AP) -- An Alabama grand jury indicted the
>      nation's largest bookseller, Barnes & Noble, on child pornography
>      charges involving the sale of books by noted photographers whose
>      work includes pictures of nude children.
>      
>      State Attorney General Bill Pryor said Wednesday he started the
>      grand jury investigation after receiving complaints about two books
>      being sold at Barnes & Noble stores in Alabama: "The Age of
>      Innocence" by French photographer David Hamilton and "Radiant
>      Identities" by San Francisco photographer Jock Sturges.
>      
>      The indictment accuses the New York-based company of disseminating
>      "obscene material containing visual reproduction of persons under 17
>      years of age involved in obscene acts."


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |            When a man assumes a public trust, he should            |
   |            consider himself public property.                       |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                      Thomas Jefferson              |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 02:06:56 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Anthrax--The Horsemen are Riding
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




CNN is reporting a news flash, with few details, about two men being
arrested in Las Vegas for making or possessing or planning to make anthrax.
Details should be emerging, but I have a hunch it's a witch hunt, an
invocation of the Four Horsement, to drum up support for Clinton's Dirty
Little War.

Now, just what are the chances of such an arrest *exactly* as the USG is
rattling sabers over Saddam's alleged anthrax and other CBW items?

It seems highly likely that the word went out to local FBI offices to "beat
the bushes" to produce some news headlines.

"Find us some jimbells we can show to the American public as proof that an
undeclared, unsupported war with Iraq is justified."


Expect more raids on "terrorist cells." Expect more coincidental findings
of chemicals and supplies which _could_ be used to make banned items.

Expect the usual suspects, like Fineswine, to call for limits on free
communications ("which are being used by terrorists") and cryptography.

Meanwhile, expect no Congressional vote for Clinton's War with Saddam. Why
won't Congress declare war, as is its responsibility (clearly stated in the
Constitution)? The last time around, in 1990-1, there was a six-month
buildup to the start of the war, there was apparently overwhelming public
hatred of Saddam, there was a clear goal ("liberate Kuwait"), and there was
clear support by other nations, other Arab states, the United Nations, etc.

And yet the vote in Congress was very close...the Congress came very close
to not issuing a statement of support. (Of course, this was still not a
declaration of war, as the Constitution calls for, but it's about as close
as we ever get in this post-WW II "Executive" government, where Congress
never declares war, not even in Korea, Viet Nam, the Gulf, etc.)

And this time around the public's interest in Saddam is ho-hum, the support
of other nations is lukewarm to nonexistent, the goals of a war are
completely unclear, and Congress appears unwilling to vote support.

And yet the war will probably happen. Clinton, the draft dodger and antiwar
activist (factual statement, not a judgement on his actions in the 60s),
_needs_ a Nice Little War.

But I predict it will backfire. He'll kill ten thousand Iraqi women,
children, and other innocents, he'll incinerate some underground bunkers
holding terrified residents of Baghdad, and he'll bomb some pesticide
facilities.

But in a region as vast as Iraq is, does anybody think he'll destroy all of
those shock-resistant flasks and Thermos bottles carring whatever
biological goodies he's already made? When Clinton's minions stood and held
up bags of sugar and said "This much anthrax could kill everyone in
Washington," why, after the cheering stopped, didn't the obvious question
get asked: "And bombing Baghdad stops this bag of sugar from being used in
just _what_ way?"

If a couple of guys in Las Vegas can get busted for doing Illegal
Experiments, regardless of whether actual anthrax is ever found, then why
do we think Iraqi, Libyan, Sudanese, and other such nations have not long,
long had the means to disperse anthrax in nations which bomb them, kill
their children, and tell the U.N. to boycott them?

Like I always say, avoid "soft targets." Avoid the Schelling points for
attacks, the sites any self-respecting terrorist, freedom fighter, or
patriot would attack first.

When Washington, the president not the pesthole, advised us to "avoid
foreign wars," we should have heeded him. America has become Amerika,
Policeman to the World, ready to inject herself into foreign wars in
Bosnia, Haiti, Ruwanda, Somalia, Viet Nam, Korea, El Salvador, Kuwait, and
on and on.

"Pouring out the phials" may be rough justice for Amerika.


--Tim May

Just Say No to "Big Brother Inside"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^3,021,377   | black markets, collapse of governments.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 02:27:52 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: PLO censoring pro-Iraqi sentiments
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




The PLO ("Palestinian Authority") has banned pro-Iraqi demonstrations and
has seized the offices of newspapers and radio stations with an editorial
bent against the upcoming War with Saddam.

(Last time around, of course, the PLO supported Saddam.)

So much for any pretense of freedom of speech and the press.

(Not that I ever held the PLO, or the State of Israel, or Iraq for that
matter, as any kind of exemplars.)

Just something to remember when considering the implications of these
foreign wars.

No doubt Madelyn Albright, William Cohen, and Sandy Berger would love to
have had such press controls yesterday in Columbus, Ohio, when their
policies were booed and heckled, and when the questions asked were the
common sense questions many of us are asking.....

I chortled to see tapes of this event being replayed over and over again in
Baghdad.

But not in Israel. At least not in PLO-controlled areas, now that
Washington is their New Master.

--Tim May

Just Say No to "Big Brother Inside"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^3,021,377   | black markets, collapse of governments.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 03:52:29 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Anthrax--The Horsemen are Riding
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 9:59 AM -0800 2/19/98, Tim May wrote:
>CNN is reporting a news flash, with few details, about two men being
>arrested in Las Vegas for making or possessing or planning to make anthrax.
>Details should be emerging, but I have a hunch it's a witch hunt, an
>invocation of the Four Horsement, to drum up support for Clinton's Dirty
>Little War.

I'm now watching the FBI's news conference about this event. Very few
details, lots of scary stuff about deadly biological viruses....par for the
course.

The FBI guy cites the help of "Dougwood Proving Grounds." Er, I think he
means Dugway, but he's just a flack.

He mentioned that the raids were launched "hours" after an informant gave
them information. Ah, but how in this bureaucratic age did they get the
support from Nellis AFB, the U.S. Army, a team from Quantico, and half a
dozen other police and military agencies?

And the Army's involvement (Army and Air Force personnel) would seem to
violate Posse Comitatus (the law forbidding military involvement in
domestic police enforcement).

Still looks like a canned event to drum up support for Operation Wag the Dog.

(Consider that one of the arrestees was charged two years ago with some
crime related to having precursor chemicals which could be used in making
bubonic plague. He was on probabation, and probably his movements were
being tracked. Perfect for "rounding up the usual suspects.")

So far the seized materials are "unidentified." It'll be real funny, and
tragic, if nothing is found.

(Ah, a reporter just asked, "You've had these suspects under surveillance
for quite some time....")

But I suspect the Feds will _plant_ something incriminating even if nothing
is actually found. Like throwdown guns planted on perps in shootings,
throwdown vials will be used. (Dugway Proving Grounds was involved, and is
just one of many sources of anthrax.)

It's truly indicative of our Orwellian state that the USG is ranting about
"weapons of mass destruction" when the USG maintains massive chemical,
biological, and nuclear stockpiles.

(Or are Fort Detrick and Dugway  and the VX stockpiles near Hanford just
"baby milk factories"? :-) )

Wanna bet they also bring crypto in this media circus?


--Tim May


Just Say No to "Big Brother Inside"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^3,021,377   | black markets, collapse of governments.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: fbm@jolt.mpx.com.au (Farrell McKay)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 09:02:53 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: ANNOUNCE: Fortify-1.2.1: worldwide, 128-bit S/MIME and SSL encryption
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Sydney, Australia. (19 Oct, 1997).  Fortify for Netscape, version 1.2.1,
with support for strong S/MIME, has now been released.

Fortify for Netscape is a system that provides world-wide, unconditional,
full strength, 128-bit encryption to users of Netscape's Web browsers.
If you routinely use Netscape's export grade Web browsers (i.e. the ones
that are available on the net), then you need Fortify. 

This new version supports two significant improvements to the strong crypto
in the 4.x Netscape web browsers - namely long RSA keys (1024-bits) for key
generation, and strong S/MIME encryption for your e-mail messages.
These improvements are in addition to the 128-bit SSL services already
provided by Fortify.

Version 1.2.1 is available on Windows 95 and NT immediately.  The Unix versions
are being finalized, and these will be released over the coming few days.

Fortify costs nothing to download and use. Nil. Zippo. Zilch.  It currently
supports most, if not all, of the non-beta versions of Netscape Navigator
(3.0x) and Communicator (4.0x), that have been released on the following
platforms:-

	Alpha DEC-OSF
	Mips SGI-Irix 5.x and 6.x 
	Sparc Sun-Solaris 2.x 
	Sparc Sun-SunOS 4.1.3_U1 
	x86 BSD, FreeBSD and BSDI
	x86 Linux-Elf 
	x86 Microsoft Win95 and WinNT 

Full details about availability, copyright, download sites, latest news,
and an FAQ guide can all be found at the Fortify web site:-
	http://www.fortify.net/

Farrell McKay
-- 
Farrell McKay                Email: Farrell.McKay@mpx.com.au   (PGP key avail)
Wayfarer Systems Pty Ltd     http://www.fortify.net/





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 04:09:53 +0800
To: Eric Cordian 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 11:03 AM -0800 2/19/98, Eric Cordian wrote:
>Tim May writes:
>
>> The PLO ("Palestinian Authority") has banned pro-Iraqi demonstrations and
>> has seized the offices of newspapers and radio stations with an editorial
>> bent against the upcoming War with Saddam.
>
>Under US pressure, of course.  In Bosnia, the US, hiding behind the UN, is
>attacking media outlets critical of its occupation, and even writing
>"confessions" for the anchors to read on the air.

And don't forget Somalia. In Somalia the U.S. occupying forces not only
suppressed newspapers critical of the U.S., they also led the disarmament
of the civilian population.

(This was verified, and I saw CNN reports of journalists following the U.S.
teams going farm to farm, hut to hut, collecting the AKs and SKS rifles the
peasants had. There were then, predictably, reports that the peasants were
now finding themselves easy pickings for roving looters. The U.S. clucked
and called these looters "agents of Warlord Aidid." Whatever, the effects
of disarming people are predictable. Apparently the First and Second and
Fourth Amendments are good enough for us, even if honored less and less,
but not OK for ragheads and dirtballs.)

This is why I cheered to see the U.S. gets its tail kicked in Somalia and
have to retreat in disgrace. Alas, the U.S. planners just looked for
another war, one we could "win," and they found a bombed out Bosnia to be
the perfect place to "restore our dignity."

Amerika the Fascist.

--Tim May





>So much for free speech. A good example of what the American people can
>expect from their government should FUD no longer suffice to control their
>thought patterns.
>
>--
>Eric Michael Cordian 0+
>O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division
>"Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"


Just Say No to "Big Brother Inside"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^3,021,377   | black markets, collapse of governments.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Pearson Shane 
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 09:26:05 +0800
To: "'Nightmare'" 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> Hi,
> 
> Although the phone number will not be traceable to you. The system
> knows your phones IMEI number, which is hardware/firmware bound
> to GSM digital phones. They can put 2 and 2 together and find that
> the IMEI number usually corresponds to your number.
> Unless you can reprogram the IMEI, I wouldn't trust a pre paid card.
> I think the IMEI number is also used as part of the encryption key.
> 
> >or buying the optus card package, aus only, for about $70-00, which
> gives
> >you a simm card and sixty dollars worth of calls.. phone is not
> supplied.
> >
> >hurry though, as the feds want these cards to be name registered, as
> they >can 
> >presently be bought with no ID.. great for those untraceable
> dealings...
> >
> 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Eric Cordian 
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 02:31:30 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: FBI Claims Germ Attack Foiled
Message-ID: <199802191818.MAA00341@wire.insync.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Here's an interesting little story that just floated by on AP.
 
-----
 
NEW YORK (AP) -- Two members of the Aryan Nation have been arrested in
Nevada and accused of plotting a bacterial attack on the New York City
subways, an FBI source said today.
 
The source, who spoke in New York on condition of anonymity, provided
no other details. The Aryan Nation is a white supremacist group.
 
The FBI in Nevada said that two men were taken into custody in a
luxury car outside a doctor's office in Henderson, Nev., near Las
Vegas.
 
FBI spokesman Aurelio Flores in Las Vegas said only the matter was
``serious.'' He said different teams from around the country are
``coming in to look at what we have.''
 
A news conference was set for late morning Las Vegas time.
 
Flores said the FBI has secured the area where the car was found and
had ``made everything safe.'' He said the agency was not looking for
explosives.
 
The New York source said the suspects allegedly planned to release a
``dangerous bacterial substance'' in the subways.
 
In Washington, a federal law enforcement source said agents were
investigating allegations that the two men arrested in Las Vegas
possessed anthrax. The source stressed that the tests were not
complete and that there have been unfounded instances in the past
involving allegations of anthrax.
 
Anthrax is an infectious disease that usually afflicts only animals,
especially cattle and sheep. But Anthrax spores can be produced in a
dry form suitable for weapons and can be fatal to humans even in
microscopic amounts.
 
New York City Mayor Rudolph Giuliani was briefed on the case by FBI
Director Louis Freeh and was told ``there is no reason for alarm,''
said mayoral spokeswoman Cristyne Lategano. She would not confirm what
the alleged threat was.
 
Giuliani, speaking generally about the threat of terrorism, said:
``Every part of America, every part of the world, is vulnerable to
terrorism. ... There is no way to make an open society, a democracy,
invulnerable to terrorism or to criminal acts. Short of closing down
America and closing down the city of New York, it would be impossible
to do that.''
 
The mayor added, ``It is impossible to have a police officer every
place. That would be unrealistic, and it would change the nature of a
free society. Short of that, I think New York City is doing everything
it can do to try to reduce the risk.''

-- 
Eric Michael Cordian 0+
O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division
"Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"
 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 04:31:10 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: No Real Debate Yet on the War
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




By the way, for those of you not living in the U.S., and who haven't been
here to see the way the debate (or lack of it) has been developing in the
U.S., let me make a few points:

* the preparations for a new war have been going on for several weeks

* Congress has taken no votes one way or the other about this imminent war

* Congress, in fact, is not in session, and has not been called back into
session to debate and discuss and ultimately vote on a Declaration of War
(or what passes for it these days, a "vote of moral support")

* the American public has shown a lukewarm response at best to the plans,
such as they understand them

* speaking of plans, the plans are very vague. The public does not know
what the goals of a war might be, what the endgame options are, how many
Americans are likely to die, what the likely counterpunch will be (hint:
think terrorist attacks), and just how the U.S. plans to fight a war
without clear goals and clear support.

* essentially no one thinks a bombing campaign will either kill Saddam, who
moves around a lot to highly secret locations (including houses of
peasants), or will destroy all of those small cannisters of anthrax and
sarin and the like...when asked, Albright and Cohen are vague and
dissembling.

* meanwhile, scare reports of terrorists in Las Vegas are making the
headlines...a perfect "give us some jimbells to scare the nation" scenario.
(With the usual scary stuff about his "survivalist" books, his membership
in Christian Identity, and his links to Aryan Nation. Throw him jail!)

In short, where is the debate about this upcoming war?

Is Congress now so ineffectual that its main power, the power to declare
war, is no longer "operative"?

Amazing.

--Tim May, posting before his own home gets raided for having supplied PGP
to Christian Identity and Aryan Nation.


Just Say No to "Big Brother Inside"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^3,021,377   | black markets, collapse of governments.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 04:46:09 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Congress getting involved in crypto this year
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I'm in the CFP computer room listening to CDT's Alan Davidson finish his
comments on a panel discussion about crypto: "Congress is getting involved
in the crypto debate. Bad things may happen, good things may happen. It
depends on all of you."

Anyone want to bet on the possibility of Congress doing a "good thing" on
crypto? Remember, there's no bill being considered in either house of the
Congress that does *not* have domestic controls on encryption: the
crypto-in-a-crime penalties.

Now Jason Mahler, from the Office of Congresswoman Zoe Lofgren (D-Calif),
is speaking. He stressed that the House Commerce committee "resoundingly"
voted down the FBI's bill last September -- but neglected to say that the
panel approved included a *doubling* of crypto-in-a-crime penalties. He
says Lofgren's plans are to push crypto legislation this year: "Hopefully
if we get it [passed] in the House in the spring we'll move to the
Senate." What about a presidential veto? "We're going to put pressure on
the administration."

Now Mahler is talking about how much support the SAFE bill has in the
House (yes, the version of SAFE with crypto-in-a-crime penalties) and how
it's a good thing. True, a majority of members of the House were at one
point cosponsors. But this is a misguided way to look at the situation.
Some of these "cosponsors" and "crypto supporters" voted for the FBI's
bill. Others, like the late Sonny Bono, ended up speaking out against it. 
Lobbyists are about to find out that the support for crypto freedom in the
Congress is wide but very, very shallow. 

-Declan





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 04:47:37 +0800
To: sunder 
Subject: Re: Is spam really a problem?
In-Reply-To: <199802181733.SAA26244@basement.replay.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Ray has widened his definition of "spam" even more.

At 12:22 PM -0800 2/19/98, sunder wrote:
>Tim May wrote:
>>
>> But *many* things eat up our valuable time. Doesn't mean government action
>> is the answer.
>
>Show me one place in the email you replied to where I mention that I would
>favor
>any sort of governmental action in terms of passing anti-spam laws.  I did
>mention
>contracts between ISP's and subscribers at one point, but did you see anything
>about someone passing laws?

You've mentioned that spam is theft. If the courts agree with you on your
definition of what spam is, then pretty clearly the legal system gets
invoked. (But to forestall any confusions in the courts, the anti-spam
sentiment being discussed by Ray and many others is likely to lead to
specific legislation. Sadly.)


>> If you use ISDN and pay minute charges to download an article from me, for
>> example, and you feel it was a waste of your valuable time, should my
>> article be illegal?
>
>If I am forced to pay for something that I don't want to buy, it is a theft
>of my money.  If you send me garbage without my asking for it, then you're

"Theft." Call the cops.

>But there are those who see the upside down pentagram and send me email
>stating I'm in the wrong religion.  Thems I consider spam because they
>try to pursuade me to their belief system.

So, your definition of spam has now been expanded to include someone who
sends _you_ (you, not thousands, not tens of thousands) a message you don't
care for.

Well, not much more I can say here.

--Tim May


Just Say No to "Big Brother Inside"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^3,021,377   | black markets, collapse of governments.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "D'jinnie" 
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 02:59:42 +0800
To: Cypherpunks Mailing List 
Subject: Mainframe solution (fwd)
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I do not know where this was published but it seems interesting...

---
Reality leaves a lot to the imagination.

jinn@inetnebr.com

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 13:13:20 -0500
From: "Labry, Phillip" 
To: intp@jubjub.wizard.com
Subject: Mainframe solution,Lengthy but interesting...
Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 10:14:27 -0800 (PST)
Resent-From: intp@jubjub.wizard.com


> Got this interesting article from an old friend of mine.........the
> best approach seems to be to build GUI-based applications on the
> front-end and use mainframes as big servers.
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> By Martin J. Garvey
> 
>         The mainframe, once the IT backbone for many enterprises, is
> regaining that stature. Next month, several large companies will lead
> the charge back to big iron in an attempt to rescue unwieldy or
> stalled client-server projects. Mainframes, these companies say,
> provide better price/performance and return on investment than their
> sleeker Unix and Windows NT systems, while delivering proven security,
> scalability, and reliable centralized management.
> 
>         GTE Data Services, Motorola Semiconductor, University Health
> System, and others are at the cusp of a trend toward leveraging the
> mainframe to back out of costly or unmanageable Unix and Windows NT
> client-server implementations. Brian Jeffery, an analyst with
> International Technology Group, an IT consulting firm in Los Altos,
> Calif., says about 70 sites worldwide are porting Unix or NT
> applications back to IBM OS/390-based mainframes. By fall, he
> estimates, as many as 300 sites will convert Oracle, SAP, and
> PeopleSoft projects to OS/390. "By 1998, there will be thousands of
> these accounts," predicts Jeffery.
> 
>     "It's a brand new life for the mainframe," says Cal Braunstein, a
> consultant with Robert Frances Group, an IT market research firm in
> Westport, Conn. "It's far less expensive to tie Unix and client-server
> information into mainframes than it is to spread it out across much
> smaller systems."
> 
>     University Health System, a 450-bed hospital in San Antonio, hopes
> to begin in August to move data-intensive applications, such as
> patient accounting and discharge, to the IBM Parallel Sysplex
> mainframe.  The project is expected to be completed by year's end. "We
> can't go in a direction of more and more resources for a nonending
> distributed environment," says Tim Geryk, director of technical
> services for University Health. "We need to turn it back the other way
> for a better scale of economy."
> 
>         Currently, University Health's enterprise has 2,500 desktops
> attached to LANs, 100 RS/6000 Unix servers, about 600 other Unix
> machines, 2,000 dumb terminals, an IBM ES/ 9000 bipolar mainframe, and
> an IBM 9672 CMOS mainframe. "It's time-intensive to keep so many
> workstations and servers up and running when so many different things
> can go wrong," says Geryk. "We can't put our hands around it anymore."
> 
>     The company is installing an IBM Parallel Sysplex architecture
> that supports Unix applications to provide a single-platform image
> across its enterprise. Bill Tudor, director of systems product
> management for mainframe maker Hitachi Data Systems in Santa Clara,
> Calif., says it's not uncommon to see multiple racks with 200 Unix
> servers in the data center. "It's just cheaper to run that same
> information on the mainframe," he says.
> 
>         According to Jeffery of ITG, it's cheaper and easier to
> increase network bandwidth for integration between Unix servers and
> the mainframe than it is to add more Unix servers. Also, customers are
> demanding that systems management, as well as enterprise data itself,
> be centralized.
> 
>         And according to the Clipper Group, a consultancy in
> Wellesley, Mass., Unix's security hasn't caught up to the mainframe's.
> Some intrepid IT users aren't just migrating some applications to
> mainframes. They're also consolidating client-server architectures
> onto big iron. One financial services company reportedly is
> consolidating as many as 600 Unix servers onto one mainframe, sources
> say.
> 
>         The hidden costs of Unix servers may be the final incentive to
> push many customers back to the mainframe. For example, CMOS
> mainframes may cost three times more than Unix servers, but management
> costs for distributed Unix servers are 20 times greater than those for
> supporting a mainframe, according to Giga Information Group in
> Cambridge, Mass.
> 
>         IT managers can port Unix applications to the OS/390 mainframe
> operating system for acceptable performance in a production
> environment. Moreover, enterprise applications, including those from
> Oracle, PeopleSoft, and SAP, are available on OS/390. And the CMOS
> processor architecture, the heart of IBM's Parallel Sysplex mainframe
> cluster that scales to 32 processors, is for the first time as
> powerful as older bipolar mainframes.
> 
>         Motorola's $7.9 billion semiconductor business unit in Phoenix
> will begin moving all of its SAP R/3 data to the mainframe in the next
> four months.
> 
>         Its architecture will then include PC clients, Unix servers as
> application servers, and an IBM OS/390-based Parallel Sysplex
> mainframe as host for about 500 Gbytes of data. The company says it is
> one of five pilot sites for SAP's R/3 on the mainframe. Before taking
> on the pilot, the semiconductor manufacturer evaluated multiple Unix
> servers and databases. The Unix systems lost to the mainframe because
> they lacked the power and manageability Motorola was looking for. "It
> was the best way to keep the database in one place," says Patrick
> Horrigan, corporate VP and IS director for Motorola's SPS division.
> "And it's 40% cheaper than the Unix solutions."
> 
>     'Tons Of Unix'
>         At GTE Data Services in Temple Terrace, Fla., shifting its
> distributed applications to the mainframe conforms to the division's
> motto of "right data, right device." The group is consolidating six
> systems into three or four. "With our so-called distributed systems,we
> have tons of Unix out there, but it's really not even distributed,"
> says operations director Pat Remick. "We're just piling a lot of Unix
> boxes on raised floors next to the mainframes, so we decided to look
> at the better reliability and scalability of the mainframe."
> 
>         Analysts point out that server consolidation isn't relegated
> solely to mainframes. HP and Sun Microsystems recently both announced
> enterprise-class servers that many say will suffice as Unix
> consolidation servers. "There is increasing value in consolidating
> Unix servers and PC servers separate from mainframes," says John
> Young, VP of enterprise systems planning for the Clipper Group.
> "People are realizing the savings behind the re-emergence of the data
> center. It's the place for consolidating processing, management,
> accountability, and data storage."
> 
>         The pioneers in the migration back to mainframes say they
> aren't ready to dismiss Unix. "Our client and application server tiers
> of R/3 will remain distributed with Unix," says Motorola SPS's
> Horrigan.  However, distributed computing could benefit from greater
> reliability, availability, and scalability. "Downtime from distributed
> systems costs too much in management, and I know a lot of processing
> is on Unix," says GTE's Remick. "But some transition must happen.
> Something has to be done."
> 
> 
> 
>     SIDEBAR:Reasons For Returning
> *   Mainframe security is at least two years ahead of Unix or Windows
> NT
> *   OS/390 can run Unix, NT, and enterprise applications such as SAP
> R/3
> *   Mainframes have the capacity to store a database of 500 Gbytes or
> more without splitting it up
> *   Parallel Sysplex configurations have no single point of failure
> and are easy to update and maintain while the system is running
> 
> 						    Data:
> InformationWeek
> 
> 
> 
> --
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 02:44:37 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Opticom.com is *not* the Opticom that makes the TB chips...
Message-ID: <199802191847.MAA17888@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Hi all,

Someone mentioned in private mail that 'opticom.com' was a valid webpage.

True, but it isn't the Opticom that is making the tera-byte chips that we
have been discussing. I did a whois on them and called the admin contact
number and they very quickly made it clear there was no connection.

So, if anyone knows how to get in touch with the company on the other side
of the big pond please pass that info along to me. I am most interested in
getting data sheets, etc. on the devices.

Thanks.


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |            When a man assumes a public trust, he should            |
   |            consider himself public property.                       |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                      Thomas Jefferson              |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 05:08:03 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: SF Chronicle on Sen. Dianne Feinstein: "Feinstein Offline"
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 12:52:39 -0800 (PST)
From: Declan McCullagh 
To: politech@vorlon.mit.edu
Subject: SF Chronicle on Sen. Dianne Feinstein: "Feinstein Offline"


****

Feinstein Offline
Her law-and-order stance irks tech industry 
Jon Swartz, Chronicle Staff Writer
Thursday, February 19, 1998 

URL:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/1998/02/19/BU48718.DTL

Despite Silicon Valley's growing economic and political clout, a chorus
of high-tech executives have complained that U.S. Senator Dianne
Feinstein is unresponsive and, at times, hostile to their interests --
especially when it comes to the Internet. 

``She is in the forefront of senators voting against the Internet,''
said Jerry Berman, executive director of the liberal Center for
Democracy and Technology in Washington, D.C. ``On a scale of 1 to 10, in
terms of being on the side of Internet freedom, she gets a 1.'' 

Feinstein voted in favor of bills banning the distribution of
bomb-making instructions, pornography and personal information over the
Internet. She wants to impose fines and jail terms for people who gamble
online. She supports strict export controls on encrypted software. And
she has joined the move to ban laptop computers on the Senate floor. 

``Isn't it ironic that the senator from California and the former mayor
of San Francisco appears to be running against the Internet?'' said
Stanton McCandlish, program director at The Electronic Frontier
Foundation, a civil libertarian organization in San Francisco. 

David Sobel, legal counsel at the nonpartisan Electronic Privacy
Information Center in Washington, D.C., said Feinstein is ``perceived to
be less supportive of the Internet and the computer industry than one
would expect.'' 

Feinstein -- a rumored vice presidential candidate in 2000 -- dismisses
the criticism as ``nonsense'' and says her record is ``replete'' with
technology-friendly legisla tion in securities litigation reform, R&D
tax credits and education. 

In September 1996, Feinstein was one of the few Democrats to override
President Clinton's veto of the securities-litigation reform legislation
that the high-tech industry desperately wanted. She also pushed hard for
the permanent extension of R&D tax credits in both the Taxpayer Relief
Act of 1997 and the 1996 Small Business Job Protection Act. Both bills
were passed into law. 

But Feinstein's strong law enforcement stance works ``to the detriment''
of the Internet, Sobel said. ``She accepts, without question, law
enforcement's claims about the dangers of the Internet.'' 

In Feinstein's view, ``This whole cyberspace is moving so fast that one
has to be sure that kids are protected,'' she said. ``I'm concerned when
kids blow themselves up by building bombs (they learned to make) over
the Internet, when Social Security card numbers are made available
online and when pedophiles punch up children's names. There is a
philosophy that anything goes. 

``I recognize the primacy of the First Amendment,'' she added. ``But
privacy goes two ways. I think prudent laws to protect children may well
be necessary. There should be a balance.'' 

Feinstein's most controversial stand is on encryption, the technology
that allows digital information to be scrambled and sent securely over
the Internet. Strong encryption is used within the United States to
protect the transmission of credit-card numbers, trade secrets and other
confidential information. 

But national security laws stretching back to the Cold War prohibit the
export of software with strong encryption. Law enforcement officials
want to be able to crack the code in case it's used by terrorists, drug
traffickers, economic saboteurs or others plotting against the United
States. 

High-tech companies say they want to be able to export software with
strong encryption because they're losing billions of dollars in
potential sales to foreign competitors who aren't subject to the same
restrictions. 

A bill called the Security and Freedom Through Encryption (SAFE) Act,
co-sponsored by Representative Anna Eshoo, D-Atherton, would relax
export controls. 

But a rival bill co-written by Senators John McCain, R-Ariz., and Bob
Kerry, D- Neb., titled the Secure Public Network Act would go the other
way and impose controls on use of encrypted software domestically. 

Feinstein favors the latter bill but doesn't think it goes far enough.
She thinks anyone who uses encrypted software should make a key to
unlock their code available to law enforcement authorities. 

During a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing on encrypted software last
fall, Feinstein said that nothing short of mandatory domestic control of
encrypted software would be acceptable. She added that no high-tech CEO
had contacted her about the issue. 

Feinstein's comments caused a furor. A January 15 letter from 26
high-tech executives sent exclusively to Feinstein stated: 

``We were disappointed by your comments. . .implying that California
companies are ambivalent regarding your position on encryption policy. 

``California companies and industries nationwide are united in
opposition to domestic and export controls,'' the letter stated. It
closed with the names of chief executives from Netscape Communications,
America Online, Pacific Bell, 3Com, Sun Microsystems, Autodesk, Adobe
Systems, RSA Data Security and others. 

``I was nothing short of shocked,'' said RSA Data Security CEO Jim
Bidzos. ``For someone to take such an extreme position on such an
important issue without touching base with her constituency is
unbelievable.'' 

Explaining her position in an interview, Feinstein said, ``When a
particular situation involves public safety, there should be some means
for recovery of encrypted information by law enforcement that falls
within the strict confines of due process of law. 

``If industry can come up with a way to provide the same law enforcement
access without a mandatory key-recovery system, I would support it,''
she said. 

[...]






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 05:16:38 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: TechNet on Feinstein, SF Chron article, and encryption
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 12:58:17 -0800 (PST)
From: Declan McCullagh 
To: politech@vorlon.mit.edu
Subject: TechNet on Feinstein, SF Chron article, and encryption

This in response to these comments in the SF Chron article, sent in a
sep. message:

>Wade Randlett, a Democratic Leadership Council activist who advises
>TechNet, said Feinstein's ``detractors are narrow- minded and hung up on
>her stance on encryption. If you look at any broad sweep, she is as big a
>champion for Silicon Valley as anyone in the U.S. Senate.''

-Declan

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 12:43:14 -0800
From: "Garrett, Sean" 
To: "'declan@well.com'" 
Subject: Feinstein & Internet Policy

Declan:

Below is the awaited article about Senator Feinstein and Internet
policy.

I also want to make sure that TechNet's position on the encryption
debate is clear.  While encryption regulations are not the only major
issue facing the industry, we recognize that they are extremely
important to many (including most of TechNet's members). 

While TechNet as an organization is not playing a role in the debate, we
believe the dialogue that we facilitate between tech CEOs and public
officials will help further all of our collective goals-including the
industry's domestic and export crypto goals.

Regarding Senator Feinstein, we hope that future meetings between her
and the industry are productive on encryption and other important
issues.

We do wholeheartedly appreciate the Senator's leadership with education
and securities litigation reform-TechNet's two policy goals.

Best,
Sean Garrett
Alexander Communications (representing the Technology Network)
Sgarrett@alexandercom.com









From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Burnes 
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 04:07:12 +0800
To: Tim May 
Subject: Re: PLO censoring pro-Iraqi sentiments
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <34EC8F2A.7DECFD4B@ssds.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Tim May wrote:
> No doubt Madelyn Albright, William Cohen, and Sandy Berger would love to
> have had such press controls yesterday in Columbus, Ohio, when their
> policies were booed and heckled, and when the questions asked were the
> common sense questions many of us are asking.....
> 

Art Bell's radio show had a very interesting interview with a
correspondent who was at the "town hall meeting".  As bad as the
footage from Nightline (donated by CNN) looked, most people
don't know what CNN didn't show.

The damage control geeks at the white house are trying to get
you to believe it was just a vocal minority.  Well apparently
the minority was somewhere between 20 and 50 people.  A pretty
healthy minority.  Healthy enough that, during the break, a riot
almost broke out.  (The whole audience clapped when the 
non-minorities questioners threw some very hardball questions)

What I found interesting was the late night ABC news spin.  They
said a vocal minority had behave rudely, then went on to mention
that a veteran was in favor of doing whatever it took.  What the
veteran really said was something like, "we shouldn't be over there
unless we do it right and take over." (he was pretty angry too)

Then more interesting propaganda during Nightline when Koeppel
asked Albright et al why we should bomb Iraq for "having weapons
of mass destruction" when we never bombed Russia during the
cold war.  The secretary of defense lied through his teeth
(or is totally ignorant - a possibility) when he said that
none of those countries has ever used its weapons of mass
destruction.  I guess he forgot about the Soviets and their
yellow rain campaign in Afganistan.

Maybe what he meant to say was they never used it on us.
Niether have the Koreans.  Niether have the Israelis.
(what weapons of mass destruction did Iraq use on us?
I thought it was the other way around.  I'm trying to
remember where I read the report, but I think the US
used Fuel Air Explosives in the PGWar)

Wag the Dog....

jim burnes





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Eric Cordian 
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 03:11:55 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: PLO censoring pro-Iraqi sentiments
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199802191903.NAA00453@wire.insync.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Tim May writes:

> The PLO ("Palestinian Authority") has banned pro-Iraqi demonstrations and
> has seized the offices of newspapers and radio stations with an editorial
> bent against the upcoming War with Saddam.

Under US pressure, of course.  In Bosnia, the US, hiding behind the UN, is
attacking media outlets critical of its occupation, and even writing
"confessions" for the anchors to read on the air.

So much for free speech. A good example of what the American people can
expect from their government should FUD no longer suffice to control their
thought patterns. 

-- 
Eric Michael Cordian 0+
O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division
"Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 05:15:56 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: What are the "Soft Targets"?
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Someone asked me what I meant by "soft targets," and what specifically some
of them are.

I won't provide a list here, lest I be tarred by the same "guilt by
association" brush the Las Vegans are facing in the media. ("The Army found
a map of the New York City subway system." Thoughtcrime.)

A "soft target" is a target of opportunity that is both:

-- almost impossible to defend

and

-- valuable for publicity purposes if attacked

Traditionally, examples have been public squares, train stations, hotel ,
etc.  When U.S.-sponsored terrorists blew up the Balogna, Italy train
station, they knew this would generate massive fear and backlashes against
the Left (whom the U.S. supported terrorists were pretending to
represent...cf. the info on Lucio Gelli, the strategy of tension, the P2
Lodge, Stefano Delle Chiaie, etc.). And when the Jewish terrorists in
Palestine wanted to make a point, they bombed the King David Hotel.

In the U.S., soft targets abound. These would typically be crowded,
downtown areas any of the 30 or 50 largest cities, but also various tourist
attractions and government facilities (though government facilities tend to
be "harder" targets, and so less likely).

With aerosol weapons, subways and indoor locations are more likely to be
targets.

Use your own judgment, but I choose to avoid any of the various soft
targets near me.

-Tim May

Just Say No to "Big Brother Inside"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^3,021,377   | black markets, collapse of governments.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 05:43:33 +0800
To: Declan McCullagh 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 12:53 PM -0800 2/19/98, Declan McCullagh wrote:

>Feinstein Offline
>Her law-and-order stance irks tech industry
>Jon Swartz, Chronicle Staff Writer
>Thursday,ÝFebruary 19, 1998

Or the version her innermost self expressed:

> In Feinstein's view, ``This whole information thing is moving so
> fast that one has to be sure that kids are protected,'' she said.
> ``I'm concerned when kids blow themselves up by building bombs (they
> learned to make) by reading things in the encyclopedia. There is a
> philosophy that anything goes. This is why I support the repeal of
> the First Amendment and prison terms for thought criminals."

She's a buffoon who is probably the first one who'll be sent to the wall if
there's ever a Second American Revolution.

As for her concern about Social Security numbers being posted online, did
it ever occur to her and her ilk that perhaps the problem is the widespread
use of SS numbers by increasing numbers of government agencies, by
requirements that banks use them, by requirements that motor vehicle
departments use them, and so on?

"Duh."

The solution is not a new set of laws to felonize information like this,
but the elimination of the SS number as a universal identifier. Far too
late for that, of course, but Fineswine's laws won't help anybody. In fact,
law enforcement will continue its abuse of SS numbers, its role in
falsifying records and official documents, and so on.

Let's try to be sure DiFi is in D.C. when Abu Nidal makes his move.

--Tim May

Just Say No to "Big Brother Inside"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^3,021,377   | black markets, collapse of governments.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Eric J. Tune" 
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 06:21:30 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: PLO censoring pro-Iraqi sentiments
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980219140712.007bda40@pop3.lvcablemodem.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>X-Sender: tcmay@mail.got.net
>Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 12:03:26 -0800
>To: Eric Cordian , cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
>From: Tim May 
>Subject: Re: PLO censoring pro-Iraqi sentiments
>Sender: owner-cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
>Reply-To: Tim May 
>X-Loop: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
>
[SHIT REMOVED]

>This is why I cheered to see the U.S. gets its tail kicked in Somalia and
>have to retreat in disgrace. Alas, the U.S. planners just looked for
>another war, one we could "win," and they found a bombed out Bosnia to be
>the perfect place to "restore our dignity."
>
>Amerika the Fascist.
>
>--Tim May
>
>

You know Tim, I respect most of what you write, and I respect you in that
you have your own free will and opinions and the right to express them, but
what you have forgotten in your anarchistic ravings is that PEOPLE DIED IN
SOMALIA, including a personal friend of mine.  They were all somebody's
son, brother, and friend.  These soldiers went where they were ordered to
go, as befits a soldier, and tried to do the job they were given and
accomplish the mission, and for that EVERY ONE OF THEM DESERVES   Y O U R
RESPECT.  I am quite sure the vast majority of them thought it was patently
stupid to go to Somalia in the first place, but a soldier follows orders,
legal ones, and tries to get the job done regardless of personal feelings.

The next time you "cheer to see the U.S. gets its tail kicked", why don't
you think about the American troops who lost their lives or were maimed, or
who were doing something they may have been personally and morally against,
but they chose to be professional soldiers, and instead of displaying
cowardice, they tried to do what was asked of them.  Think of the innocent
civilians who inevitably die in the conflicts started by the megalomaniacs
like Saddam Hussein.  If you want to blame someone, and you bellow
endlessly in every letter you write about blaming someone, why don't you
blame the politicians who start the wars, who run the countries and step
all over their own people, instead of the people who are made to do the
dirty work?

Your "cheering" was a blatant slap in the face to anyone who has ever
served in uniform, and my only hope is that you will think about who should
really deserve your ire next time before you so recklessly blurt it out.

A lot of people like what you have to say most of the time, including me,
but with the right to our freedom of speech comes a responsibility to speak
wisely, which is something we could all strive to be better at, don't you
think?

Eric Tune






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ernest Hua 
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 07:13:42 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: RE: Anthrax--The Horsemen are Riding
Message-ID: <413AC08141DBD011A58000A0C924A6D50D7DA2@MVS2>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Relax ... Tim is not condoning this guy's behavior.

The real issue is why NOW?  It's just a bit coincidental, don't you
think, that someone so blatantly advertises his intimate relationships
with biological weapons for years is just now suddenly being arrested?
In politics, timing is everything.

I am not the least bit sorry for this guy if he really possessed
anything, but I'm just a bit skeptical that this is just another routine
domestic terrorism arrest.

Ern

	-----Original Message-----
	From:	Anonymous [SMTP:nobody@REPLAY.COM]
	Sent:	Thursday, February 19, 1998 1:35 PM
	To:	cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
	Subject:	Re: Anthrax--The Horsemen are Riding


	Yet another wrong call by Tim "Chicken Little" May:

	>CNN is reporting a news flash, with few details, about two men
being
	>arrested in Las Vegas for making or possessing or planning to
make
	>anthrax. Details should be emerging, but I have a hunch it's a
witch
	>hunt, an invocation of the Four Horsement, to drum up support
for
	>Clinton's Dirty Little War.

	Nonsense.  This has nothing to do with Saddam.  These men are
from the
	Aryan Nation, a militia group (and one which Tim secretly
supports, being
	a strong believer in Aryan superiority).  No wonder he is upset,
when
	his favorite racists are shown to be just another bunch of
terrorists,
	willing to kill innocents to promote their hate-filled cause.

	>"Find us some jimbells we can show to the American public as
proof that
	>an undeclared, unsupported war with Iraq is justified."

	How incoherent can you get?  How on earth can terrorism by the
militias
	be related to the war in Iraq?  Jeez, what an idiot.

	>Wanna bet they also bring crypto in this media circus?

	This would be funny if it weren't so sad.  And you guys really
_respect_
	someone who would write this nonsense?

	It's a sad story when the one who is supposed to be the brains
of the
	group is this stupid.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Henri La Bouche 
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 04:11:21 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: The danger of certificates
Message-ID: <199802192003.PAA11771@server1.efga.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




IMHO there is a serious situation creeping up that I have not seen much attention on. That is the use of certificates to encrypt e-mail. I think these are two entirely separate subjects and unless the distinction is made and people are made to see it strong encryption will be next to useless.

If I may draw an analogy (albeit flawed ). Using a certificate to sign or encrypt a message is akin to notarizing a document. Using strong encryption is akin to putting snail mail in an envelope before sending. To have to notarize every piece of mail you send, or to be required to go to the post office and show ID in order to send mail would be a gross invasion of privacy and completely unacceptable. Yet this is what is done when using certificates to encrypt e-mail.

Currently this use of certificates is not widespread, but if any lesson is to be learned from the "browser wars" is that if you give it away people will use it regardless of quality. And in America especially, if something requires brains or intelligence to use you know right off that the general public will not accept it. As e-mail becomes more and more the standard it will be easy to whip the populace into a frenzy regarding "privacy" and spam then provide the simple and easy method of using certificates as a standard.

Let's put on the black hat for a moment and create a plan. We want to snooker the public into believing it has security through strong encryption and yet we have the ability to track connections and communications. Further we would like to get a net gain of intel, not just replace the current system with something new.

The primary goals would be
1. Knock out any competing encryption system.
2. Provide a system that is apparently strong but is not.

The best way to defeat number one is to give away number two (pun intended).

The specs for such a system would be:
1. A backdoor or key escrow or other method to easily decrypt the information sent.
2. A means to trace all messages back to the actual originator.
3. A means to know who is the true recipient.
4. User friendly (no-brainer).
5. It must provide benefits above and beyond encryption and digital signatures.
6. Acceptable to the general public.

The simplest method of creating key escrow is to have a single source for issuing keys. If people are unable to create their own keys then there will be no problem with having to break unknown keys. To make this acceptable to the populace there has to be an apparent benefit. If the keys are issued by a "trusted" authority who supposedly takes great pains to verify identity before issuing a key, then the people don't have to think or be bother to look for deceit. The authority will be there to ensure it never happens.

This system also provides traceability of originator and recipient.

To make it user friendly, make it password free, fully integrated into the e-mail client and fully transparent to the user.

Additional benefits could be the noted above "trusted" authority factor as well as whipping up a frenzy about "hackers" reading your mail and doing horrible things, which will be prevented if your just use our encryption. Also "faster" protocols can be invented that whisk certificate encrypted mail through the internet faster and more reliably. Use of certificates can eliminate spam, simply filter out all mail that is not encrypted with one of our certificates, after all, if someone doesn't use our certificate then they must have something to hide.

Making it acceptable would require that it appear to be not controlled by the government and then run a PR campaign selling it. First off have a few large corporations back it, have the certificates issued by an apparently private corporation and finally have athlete and movie star endorsements, i.e. "Got Encryption".

The political deviants who refuse to use this system will be easy to isolate and target.

Henri






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: sunder 
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 04:34:51 +0800
To: Tim May 
Subject: Re: Is spam really a problem?
In-Reply-To: <199802181733.SAA26244@basement.replay.com>
Message-ID: <34EC9489.F44B070B@brainlink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Tim May wrote:
>
> But *many* things eat up our valuable time. Doesn't mean government action
> is the answer.

Show me one place in the email you replied to where I mention that I would
favor
any sort of governmental action in terms of passing anti-spam laws.  I did
mention
contracts between ISP's and subscribers at one point, but did you see anything
about someone passing laws?
 
> If you use ISDN and pay minute charges to download an article from me, for
> example, and you feel it was a waste of your valuable time, should my
> article be illegal?

If I am forced to pay for something that I don't want to buy, it is a theft
of my money.  If you send me garbage without my asking for it, then you're
wasting my money.  If I subscribe to a mailing list and don't want to see
your messages, it's a different story since I have to take other steps to
not see what you post.  In other words, in one case you are targetting me
with spam, in the other, I want to receive cypherpunks minus one user, but
that user isn't directly targetting me.
 
> If someone sees your name somewhere and does the same thing (sends you a
> letter), should this be illegal?

Ditto as the response above.  I will accept any non commercial, non moral
pushing message.  i.e. there are those who like my home page and email me
to tell me so.  There are those who hate it and tell me so.  There are
those who ask for help, or offer help.  No problemo there.

But there are those who see the upside down pentagram and send me email
stating I'm in the wrong religion.  Thems I consider spam because they
try to pursuade me to their belief system.
 
> (I threw this last point in because some have argued that there is an
> implicit agreement that mail on a mail exploder will not be objected to, as
> it fits the charter, blah blah. So I removed this implicitness by speaking
> of someone who writes a letter.)

Makes no difference what you throw in.  A mail exploder that auto subscribes
everyone on the planet without their consent IS a source of spam.  A mail
exploder that sends email to those who wish to receive it is not because there
was consent.
 
> If _content_ is not a criterion for spam, as Costner and others have noted,
> then "wasting Ray's time" is even less of a criterion for what spam is.

Spam is unsolicited broadcasts.   Pure and simple.  If you spam me with
a scheme to make you money, it's spam.  If you spam me with "Jesus loves you"
it's a spam.  If you spam me with chain letters promising whatever or warning
of great virus plages, it's still spam.  Content is a valid criterion for spam
and so is consent. It's the unwanted content of these messages that makes
them unwanted.  If they were useful to the recipient, they wouldn't be unwanted
hence would not be spam.

Problem is every dickhead who buys into the "Make Money Fast on the Net
By Spamming" theory has dollar signs in his eyes and thinks his message
is the most valuable, most useful, most cuddly lovely bit of info on the
planet and that he's doing everyone a service by shoving it down their 
unwiling throats.
 
> Look, there's just not going to be a simple government answer to "unwanted
> communications" that doesn't do serious damage to our liberties.

I posted a very nice technological way to deter spam, and you go and read
governmental interfearence in it.  READ the message you reply to before you
respond to it.
 
> Technological/economic approaches are the only way to go.

No shit.  And that's what I posted earlier.

-- 

=====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos==============
.+.^.+.|  Ray Arachelian    |Prying open my 3rd eye.  So good to see |./|\.
..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were      |/\|/\
<--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run  |\/|\/
../|\..| "A toast to Odin,  |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/.
.+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were....            |.....
======================= http://www.sundernet.com ==========================





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ernest Hua 
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 07:42:15 +0800
To: "'Jim Choate'" 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



If the guy was after visibility, yes, then I would agree with you (re:
"prime time").

Of course, it could also just be monumental stupidity on his timing (to
confirm the FBI's "dumb criminal" model).

Ern

	-----Original Message-----
	From:	Jim Choate [SMTP:ravage@ssz.com]
	Sent:	Thursday, February 19, 1998 3:18 PM
	To:	cypherpunks@ssz.com
	Subject:	RE: Anthrax--The Horsemen are Riding (fwd)


	Forwarded message:

	> From: Ernest Hua 
	> Subject: RE: Anthrax--The Horsemen are Riding
	> Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 14:51:32 -0800

	> The real issue is why NOW?  It's just a bit coincidental,
don't you
	> think, that someone so blatantly advertises his intimate
relationships
	> with biological weapons for years is just now suddenly being
arrested?
	> In politics, timing is everything.
	> 
	> I am not the least bit sorry for this guy if he really
possessed
	> anything, but I'm just a bit skeptical that this is just
another routine
	> domestic terrorism arrest.

	There is one other potential reason why 'now'. The guy doing the
deed
	figured it was a prime time to strike.



____________________________________________________________________
	   |
|
	   |            When a man assumes a public trust, he should
|
	   |            consider himself public property.
|
	   |
|
	   |                                      Thomas Jefferson
|
	   |
|
	   |
| 
	   |            _____                             The Armadillo
Group   |
	   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx.
USA     |
	   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/
http://www.ssz.com/   |
	   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\
|
	   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim
Choate       |
	   |
ravage@ssz.com     |
	   |
512-451-7087      |

|____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 05:01:36 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <241e4ef7f128aa790d464cb6e45d4dd2@anon.efga.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Lately, anonymous messages sent to the list
with Replay's Web-based remailer have not
been getting through - anyone know if one or
more of these remailers (efga, replay, ml, 
obscura, cypherpunks.ca) are down?

In case my last message doesn't get through,
I'm looking for info on how one can create and
use a persistent Nym. I looked and can't find
info on how to do this anywhere (besides the
creation of a "free" email account somewhere).
Can any cypherpunks help?

Thank you.


From owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Sun Feb 22 01:03 SGT 1998
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Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 15:40:06 -0500
From: sunder 
Organization: SunderNET.com
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (WinNT; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Information Security 
CC: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Is spam really a problem?
References: <199802182107.QAA00482@panix2.panix.com>
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Information Security wrote:

>    >   From sunder@brainlink.com Wed Feb 18 15:58:46 1998
>    >
>    >   Anonymous wrote:
>    >   >
>    >   > I see discussion of spam here and everywhere on
>    >   > the net. But who finds it a *real* problem, and
>    >   > why?
> 
> Why are you asking the cypherpunks list?

I didn't. Anonymous did.  
 
>    >   There are nice technical solutions to this.  If sendmail didn't transport
>    >   things unauthenticated it could be done, but at a cost in CPU cycles on mail
>    >   servers:
>    >
>    >   Have every sendmail server use a PK scheme to talk to every other
>    >   server and authenticate the connection.  Have every sendmail server accept
>    >   mail only from those whose key is verified.
> 
> Nonsense.
> 
> We (NANA) already know where spam comes from,
> and when we complain about it, they are terminated.

Until someone else gets a throw away $10 account and uses it to 
spam, right?  By the time you track'em down, they already gave up
that account.  All ISP's do is to delete the spamming account, which
the spammer doesn't care about anyway.  So you achive nothing.

Further one can generate fake headers and you would not know exactly where
it comes from, though you could have some idea since it would be one of
many sites it was relayed from.  One could send messages from an ISP
that doesn't mind spammers who won't help you track down the bitch that
just slimed your machine, etc.

 
> PK authentication would change nothing.
> 
> Show a single spam with a forged IP address.

IP addresses won't be forged, but one could send
a mail with extra Recieved-By: headers, etc.
 
> PK authentication would only lead us down the
> road of everyone being tattooed with barcodes
> of our own making - and incredibly dumb idea.
> 
> It would be like requiring a smart card for Internet access.

Bullshit.  PK auth with a central repository would be Big Brotherish.
Having each user gen their own PK pair is what I suggested. That
would allow anon users to have persistant (or even throw away)
identities, but prevent Joe Spambitch from telnetting to port 25
and spamming that way.

Even if Joe Spambitch does gen PK pairs and uses them, he can't
gen a pair for every message he sends, the recipient servers won't
recognize his PK pair and might have been instructed to block messages
from bad (and possibly unknown PK's), or at least refuse to relay
messages from unknown PK's.  Relaying is a big problem.

-- 

=====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos==============
.+.^.+.|  Ray Arachelian    |Prying open my 3rd eye.  So good to see |./|\.
..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were      |/\|/\
<--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run  |\/|\/
../|\..| "A toast to Odin,  |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/.
.+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were....            |.....
======================= http://www.sundernet.com ==========================





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Roger J. Jones" 
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 06:07:57 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Mainframe solutions
Message-ID: <09B2B857068ED11182284000000018980C5C@IBPNT000>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary..3989.1071713778.multipart/mixed"

--Boundary..3989.1071713778.multipart/mixed
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Having looked at this path I suggest that the article is misleading. No
one moves SAP to a mainframe. What you do is move the DBMS from Oracle
under UNIX (the normal implementation for 1000 concurrent users or less)
to Oracle or more likely DB2 on the mainframe.

Also curious about how mainframe security is 2 years ahead of Unix
and/or NT. There is almost no security on a mainframe unless you add a
package such as ACF2 or TopSecret. Neither are easy to administer, easy
to audit, nor do either have anything to do with application security.
They monitor use of files, terminals and the like. As far as I know,
there is no package that can intercept the PSW being returned after a
system call in the System (vice User) state. (Being in system state on a
mainframe is like being root in UNIX) I assure you that in the millions
of lines of code, much over 25 years old, in the typical mainframe
operating system you don't have to wait long for the "right word"




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Björn" Karger 
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 08:21:49 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Anthrax
Message-ID: <19980220000436.13373.rocketmail@send1d.yahoomail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Is it just coincidence that this scenario (crazy
Amerikans brewing biowarfare in their homes) was 
just discussed on Cypherpunks just days before the
attack?




_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: sunder 
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 05:30:22 +0800
To: Tim May 
Subject: Re: Is spam really a problem?
In-Reply-To: <199802181733.SAA26244@basement.replay.com>
Message-ID: <34ECA0D8.32CBABB5@brainlink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Tim May wrote:
 
> Ray has widened his definition of "spam" even more.

No, my definition is the same as it always was.  Maybe you didn't realize
how wide it was.
 
> You've mentioned that spam is theft. If the courts agree with you on your
> definition of what spam is, then pretty clearly the legal system gets
> invoked. (But to forestall any confusions in the courts, the anti-spam
> sentiment being discussed by Ray and many others is likely to lead to
> specific legislation. Sadly.)

It is my definition, if others agree, that's their business.  I'm not asking
the courts to do shit about it however.
 
> "Theft." Call the cops.

It is theft, and I do call the cops, or rather in this case the ISP's involved.
The problem is they can't do much as the messages are sent from throw away
accounts.

> So, your definition of spam has now been expanded to include someone who
> sends _you_ (you, not thousands, not tens of thousands) a message you don't
> care for.

Show me your spam filters.  Do you not have at least one individual's name
in that list whose messages you route to a folder of trash or delete outright?
I seem to recall that was the case quite a while back with a certain "Doctor".

Indeed, even you make decisions about what is or isn't spam based on WHO sends
it.  In this case, you, not thousands, not tens o thousands of others is making
a decision on what is or isn't spam because you don't care for it.

=====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos==============
.+.^.+.|  Ray Arachelian    |Prying open my 3rd eye.  So good to see |./|\.
..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were      |/\|/\
<--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run  |\/|\/
../|\..| "A toast to Odin,  |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/.
.+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were....            |.....
======================= http://www.sundernet.com ==========================





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 08:44:41 +0800
To: "William H. Geiger III" 
Subject: Re: SF Chronicle on Sen. Dianne Feinstein: "Feinstein Offline"
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 2:55 PM -0800 2/19/98, William H. Geiger III wrote:

>>She's a buffoon who is probably the first one who'll be sent to the wall
>>if there's ever a Second American Revolution.
>
>Third. We had a Second American Revolution and we lost.

You're quite right...I stand corrected.

Though in some sense it was a "secessionist movement," which is subtly
different from a revolution. As with Quebec, whose secession the USG
opposes. As with Kurdistan, whose secession the USG sometimes supports and
sometimes doesn't, depending on geopolitical calculations and on the party
in power. As with the Basque region, whose secession the USG emphatically
does not support, to the point of sending intelligence experts to Spain to
help crush the secessionists. As with the outlying regions of the former
Soviet Union, which the USG attempted to destabilize by dropping agents in,
assassinating politicians, etc.

--Tim May


Just Say No to "Big Brother Inside"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^3,021,377   | black markets, collapse of governments.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Attila T. Hun" 
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 01:10:35 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: Barnes & Nobles indicted on child porno... [CNN]
In-Reply-To: <199802191523.JAA16425@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <19980219.163356.attila@hun.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

on or about 980219:0923, in <199802191523.JAA16425@einstein.ssz.com>, 
    Jim Choate  toosed this gem of a bomb into our 
    subsconsiousness:

>>           NATION'S LARGEST BOOKSELLER CHARGED WITH CHILD PORNOGRAPHY
>>                                        
>>      February 18, 1998
>>      Web posted at: 10:28 p.m. EST (0328 GMT)
>>      
>>      MONTGOMERY, Alabama (AP) -- An Alabama grand jury indicted the
>>      nation's largest bookseller, Barnes & Noble, on child pornography
>>      charges involving the sale of books by noted photographers whose
>>      work includes pictures of nude children.
>>
    that means every nudist camp magazine trying to show happy families,    
    every news picture from Cannes, and the National Geographic, etc. are
    about to have a problem with this dumbfuck.
      
>>      State Attorney General Bill Pryor said Wednesday he started the
>>      grand jury investigation after receiving complaints about two books
>>      being sold at Barnes & Noble stores in Alabama: "The Age of
>>      Innocence" by French photographer David Hamilton and "Radiant
>>      Identities" by San Francisco photographer Jock Sturges.
>>      
    is this asshole about to run for US President or just governor of
    Alabama? sounds like he has high political ambitions and wants the
    endorsements of Robertson, Buchannan & the now-religious-zealot
    Donna Rice.

    somebody raid his house; bet he's an S-M freak or some other kind
    of pervert!

>>      The indictment accuses the New York-based company of disseminating
>>      "obscene material containing visual reproduction of persons under 17
>>      years of age involved in obscene acts."

    to this man, God's natural clothing is an obscene act; he'd probably
    die of apoplexy if someone invited him to the communal saunas in     
    Scandinavia and he walked out of the men's dressing room...  Bavaria
    for that matter, but not the prudish Swiss.

    pedophilia should be treated as a capital crime, but that's as far
    as it goes. today, statutory rape in consensual sex is a joke for
    children over 12, or 8? I dont think they should have an awareness 
    of carnal knowledge at that age, but they certainly do. you can not
    legislate morality; you can punish predatory acts such as pedophilia,
    but the perpetrators sense of morality, etc. was lost long ago.

    welcome to censorship in its finest hour. perhaps Mississippi has
    progressed further out of the Victorian age than Alabama.

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Comment: No safety this side of the grave. Never was; never will be

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-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 09:06:12 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Vile Vial Files
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




One of the interesting items revealed today was that an FBI file was opened
on the Ohio man when he ordered the bubonic plague culture a few years ago.
The Maryland company forwarded his name to the Feds, apparently as part of
a regular arrangement to do so.

The Feds did an investigation, found he had used his company's name
"fraudulently" (whatever that might be), and used this to convict him on
fraud charges. (Not on the bubonic plague charges, though, as that wasn't a
crime. At least not then.)

This is part of a larger surveillance state situation, with buyers of all
sorts of chemicals reported to the Feds. With buyers of grow lamps
reported. (And supposedly the electric utility companies are reporting
unusual power usages in the middle of the night to Feds.)

While there may be various good reasons not to have botulism or bubonic
plague cultures sold to ordinary folks, this whole situation raises serious
issues. And the initiation of FBI investigations of purchasers of many
kinds of chemicals raises issues.

(One can asssume that with more and more such things being added to the
"watch lists" each year, that there will be less acceptance of cash, or
anonymous digital cash, for such purchases.)

ObMinorNote: I recently tried to buy a bag of ammonium nitrate for my
yard...the local yard store says it hasn't been available to ordinary
customers since OKC. I had to settle for ammonium sulfate instead.

We live in a dangerous world, full of potentially dangerous substances and
things. Instead of dealing with the danger on a personal basis, we are
using the government as our nanny, and also letting it record our
purchases, open files on us for "unusual" purchases, and generally track
our actions. Which actually won't have much effect on dedicated terrorists
and criminals.

--Tim May

Just Say No to "Big Brother Inside"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^3,021,377   | black markets, collapse of governments.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Attila T. Hun" 
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 01:30:15 +0800
To: cypherpunks 
Subject: privacy trade war
Message-ID: <19980219.000200.attila@hun.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



FUD: Forwarded at 980219:171500 +0000 by Attila T. Hun 

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Europe, U.S.  try to head off privacy trade war
_________________________________________________________________
   
BRUSSELS, Belgium (Reuters) - U.S.  companies doing business
in Europe are nervously counting the days to what they fear
could be a new trans-Atlantic showdown.
   
Oct.  24 is the deadline for the 15 European Union nations
to implement a tough law designed to protect citizens from
computer-age invasions of privacy.  The law gives
individuals broad rights to know, and in some cases control,
how information about their buying habits, credit ratings,
health, political affiliations and other characteristics is
used.
   
The problem, which has been consuming increasing amounts of
attention in Brussels and Washington, is that it also allows
governments to block exports of personal information to
third countries that do not provide "adequate" protection.
The United States is scrambling to show that it does not
fall into that category even though it prefers industry
self-regulation to strict government controls.
   
"It's clear that the EU has a law with a sort of
centralized government-led approach that they have to
follow," a U.S.  official said.  "We don't have such an
approach and we're not going to be taking such an
approach."
   
Washington argues that industry codes of conduct are an
effective way to guard against misuse of data -- a stance
that critics say does not appreciate the historical reasons
Europe wants the right to privacy enshrined in law.
   
"The difference between the United States (and Europe) is
that the smell of fascism is still thick in the air in
Europe," said Simon Jones, founder of the British-based
global coalition Privacy International, which supports the
EU approach.
   
The conflict has raised fears that the two sides are heading
for confusion at best and a bruising trade battle at worst
once the EU law takes effect.
   
"Every time we meet this comes up because the potential
risk is quite large," the U.S.  official said.
   
The EU data protection directive, adopted after much
controversy in 1995, aims to protect information traveling
over electronic networks including the Internet from abuse
by potential "Big Brothers."
   
It also aims to ensure that public agencies, banks, mail
order firms, multinationals and others can send data across
Europe without fearing it will be blocked by differences in
national privacy laws.
   
It gives individuals the right to know what data has been
collected, to prevent details from being handed over to
third parties such as direct marketers, to file complaints
about the misuse of data with a national authority and to
win compensation for damages.
   
The sticking point for Washington is Article 25, which
requires governments to bar organizations from transferring
personal data to third countries that do not "ensure an
adequate level of protection." Since U.S.  law does not
mandate the controls required by the EU directive, companies
fear the country will be blacklisted.
   
"This disruption of trade would have an enormous impact on
data flows required for electronic commerce," the EU
Committee of the American Chamber of Commerce, which lobbies
for U.S.  business on EU issues, said in a policy paper.
   
Washington has responded to the threat by pushing its
business sectors to draw up codes of conduct with teeth.  It
has set a July 1 deadline for assessing whether that
approach will work, the American official said.
   
Industry sources say government officials have urged them to
draw up codes bolstered by consumer notices, effective
enforcement and outside audits -- or face continued pressure
from the EU and home-grown privacy activists.
   
"The hope is there will be a self-regulatory solution
strong enough to give the U.S.  the opportunity to say,
'Look what we've done' and the Europeans to say, 'They've
complied, we can back off,"' Mark Kightlinger, a lawyer at
Covington & Burling in Brussels who is following the issue,
said.
   
Many U.S.  companies already have privacy policies and some
sectors have been forced to strengthen their protection
under pressure from the Federal Trade Commission.
   
For example, a group of leading American computer database
companies that was under fire for releasing Social Security
and other information drew up a privacy policy in December.
The American Electronics Association says it is among
industry groups that are debating how to formulate a code of
conduct.
   
The European Commission, the EU executive said, has assured
the United States that it does not envisage a blanket ban on
data transfers to the United States, even under the status
quo.
   
Commission President Jacques Santer said in a letter to the
EU Committee that the law allowed for "ad hoc solutions"
and a "case by case" approach.  But he said codes of
conduct alone were not enough.  "There is a need for
sanctions and individuals must have guaranteed access to
their personal data and a means of redress if their rights
are violated," he said.
   
A working party of EU national regulators echoed that
message when it issued a paper in January outlining criteria
for effective self-regulation in third countries.
   
"Self-regulation as such is not a very explicit term," a
commission official said.  "Does it mean self-regulation,
we don't do anything?  Or do we inform consumers about our
privacy policies and provide a right of access and
rectification?"
   
Some say the EU-U.S.  conflict highlights the need for a
global approach to data privacy.  Some international
organizations have already taken up the question such as the
29-member Organization for Economic Cooperation and
Development and the International Chamber of Commerce.
   
Santer argued in his letter that the Geneva-based World
Trade Organization was the appropriate forum.

    _________________________ NOTICE ______________________

    In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C.  Section 107, this
    material is distributed without profit to those who have
    expressed a prior interest in receiving the included
    information for research and educational purposes.
    _______________________________________________________


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 07:13:14 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: Anthrax--The Horsemen are Riding (fwd)
Message-ID: <199802192318.RAA19801@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: Ernest Hua 
> Subject: RE: Anthrax--The Horsemen are Riding
> Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 14:51:32 -0800

> The real issue is why NOW?  It's just a bit coincidental, don't you
> think, that someone so blatantly advertises his intimate relationships
> with biological weapons for years is just now suddenly being arrested?
> In politics, timing is everything.
> 
> I am not the least bit sorry for this guy if he really possessed
> anything, but I'm just a bit skeptical that this is just another routine
> domestic terrorism arrest.

There is one other potential reason why 'now'. The guy doing the deed
figured it was a prime time to strike.


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |            When a man assumes a public trust, he should            |
   |            consider himself public property.                       |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                      Thomas Jefferson              |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Eric Cordian 
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 07:29:20 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Anthrax--The Horsemen are Riding
In-Reply-To: <199802192135.WAA17978@basement.replay.com>
Message-ID: <199802192320.RAA00953@wire.insync.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



A Very Gullible Government Tool Writes:

> Yet another wrong call by Tim "Chicken Little" May:

> Nonsense.  This has nothing to do with Saddam.  These men are from the
> Aryan Nation, a militia group (and one which Tim secretly supports, being
> a strong believer in Aryan superiority).  No wonder he is upset, when
> his favorite racists are shown to be just another bunch of terrorists,
> willing to kill innocents to promote their hate-filled cause.

This has everything to do with Sadaam.  These individuals came to the
attention of the government a long time ago, have been under surveilance,
and their carefully timed arrest today, at the precise moment needed to
give the Sheeple an overdose of Biological Warfare sound bytes, is hardly
coincidental.

This is Bell Revisited, with the usual trotting out of someones personal
property accompanied by government editorializing.  "He had a map of New
York City!"  "You don't need nitric acid to kill aphids!" 

Oh right.  Big Woo.

Now all we need is some more propaganda on Russia's plans to sell Sadaam
that big vat, which "could be used" to produce biological weapons. 

-- 
Eric Michael Cordian 0+
O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division
"Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 09:31:48 +0800
To: "Attila T. Hun" 
Subject: Re: putting down the US military
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980219140712.007bda40@pop3.lvcablemodem.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 4:07 PM -0800 2/19/98, Attila T. Hun wrote:


>Eric J. Tune wrote:
>
>>Your "cheering" was a blatant slap in the face to anyone who has
>>ever served in uniform. [snip]
>>
>    absolutely. misplaced criticism and a personal offense to me
>    as well as all other servicemen.

"Personal offense"? Gee, I'm crushed. (Attila, you wrote such a nice rant
about fascist Amerika...then decided to be "offended" when your predictable
hot button was pressed: any criticism of the military and any cheering of
its defeats. So predictable.)

I'll repeat: I cheer when I see the U.S. swatted down in its foreign
adventures. While I don't necessarily with harm to specific soldiers,
they're just pawns in a geopolitical power game. Eggs have to be broken to
make omelettes, and sometimes planes have to be shot down, aircraft
carriers have to be sunk (my fondest wish for Operation Wag the Dog), and
soldiers have to be stuck by the pikes of the peasants (as in Somalia). War
is hell. Nothing new there.

To _not_ want the U.S. to be taught a lesson just because it means some
soldiers must die as part of the lesson (else there is no lesson, of
course) is to let the USG do anything it wants.

By the way, the same arguments--identical in all ways--about individual
sons (and, sometimes, daughters) dying in the cause of war can be used in
many other arenas. For example, no doubt the CIA agent killed in Athens
when his name was published in a newspaper had parents, perhaps a wife and
children. So? He was still a spy, and some folks angry at having
imperialist spies in their midst offed him. Rough justice.

And no doubt some government soldiers in Burma, killed by rebel forces,
also had mothers and fathers, blah blah blah.

Both of these examples have crypto connections:

- the rebel forces in Myanmar/Burma use PGP. Ergo, PGP is helping
"terrorists" kill government soldiers.

- the publication of lists of CIA and DIA agents via "whistleblowing
remailers" is expected to increase. Remailers _will_ be used by "enemies of
the U.S. government." On this one, Louis Freeh and I have  long been in
agreement, me for even longer than he's known what the issues are.

Get used to it. When Johhnie or Hans or Sergei goes to war, he may die. And
perhaps because of Cypherpunks technologies. All part of the scheme of
things.


>        Tim gets to say his piece,
>        and we get to lump it      --or lump Tim.
>

Another empty threat from Attila?


--Tim May




Just Say No to "Big Brother Inside"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^3,021,377   | black markets, collapse of governments.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Eric Cordian 
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 07:46:18 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: PLO censoring pro-Iraqi sentiments
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980219140712.007bda40@pop3.lvcablemodem.com>
Message-ID: <199802192336.RAA00978@wire.insync.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Eric Tune writes:

> You know Tim, I respect most of what you write, and I respect you in
> that you have your own free will and opinions and the right to express
> them, but what you have forgotten in your anarchistic ravings is that
> PEOPLE DIED IN SOMALIA, including a personal friend of mine.  They were
> all somebody's son, brother, and friend. 

So were the 100,000 Iraqi military killed by Bush, and the 1,000,000
Iraqis of all ages killed by US sanctions.  So were the civilians
bulldozed into mass graves in Panama, so the country would look neat and
tidy for the arrival of the ReportWhores.

What the world needs now is not another mass killing of Iraqis by the
United States government.  What the world really needs now is a fifty
dollar weapon that sinks aircraft carriers.

> These soldiers went where they were ordered to go, as befits a soldier,
> and tried to do the job they were given and accomplish the mission, and
> for that EVERY ONE OF THEM DESERVES Y O U R RESPECT.  I am quite sure
> the vast majority of them thought it was patently stupid to go to
> Somalia in the first place, but a soldier follows orders, legal ones,
> and tries to get the job done regardless of personal feelings.

Most of them would probably follow "legal orders" to fire upon American
civilians too.  

> The next time you "cheer to see the U.S. gets its tail kicked", why
> don't you think about the American troops who lost their lives or were
> maimed, or who were doing something they may have been personally and
> morally against, but they chose to be professional soldiers, and instead
> of displaying cowardice, they tried to do what was asked of them. 

The universe does not view the lives of Americans as more valuable than
the lives of people murdered by Americans. 

> Think of the innocent civilians who inevitably die in the conflicts
> started by the megalomaniacs like Saddam Hussein.

You mean all those melted child car seats and scorched teddy bears on
George Bush's "Highway of Death" leading out of Kuwait? 

Unfortunately, for all the braying Americans do about freedom, Americans
can never be truly happy unless someone is telling them what to do, or
they are telling someone else what to do, or they are bombing someone for
not doing what they have told them to do. 

The only thing Americans understand is dead Americans.  The only thing. 

I've always believed that communications functions most effectively when
people are talked to in a language that they understand. 

-- 
Eric Michael Cordian 0+
O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division
"Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 07:45:30 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: Anthrax--The Horsemen are Riding (fwd)
Message-ID: <199802192351.RAA20061@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: Ernest Hua 
> Subject: RE: Anthrax--The Horsemen are Riding (fwd)
> Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 15:26:38 -0800

> If the guy was after visibility, yes, then I would agree with you (re:
> "prime time").
> 
> Of course, it could also just be monumental stupidity on his timing (to
> confirm the FBI's "dumb criminal" model).

The point I was thinking of was that such a timing would be when the country
as a whole was distracted with over-seas events. Since they were Aryan
Nation related, as I understand it, the goal was probably to further their
white supremacy agenda. An attack on some 'hood would cause a civil uproar
between blacks and whites that could have a impact of some importance. The
result of that could be quite pervasive.


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |            When a man assumes a public trust, he should            |
   |            consider himself public property.                       |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                      Thomas Jefferson              |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 08:09:41 +0800
To: Tim May 
Subject: Re: SF Chronicle on Sen. Dianne Feinstein: "Feinstein Offline"
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199802200032.TAA28422@users.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In , on 02/19/98 
   at 01:36 PM, Tim May  said:


>At 12:53 PM -0800 2/19/98, Declan McCullagh wrote:

>>Feinstein Offline
>>Her law-and-order stance irks tech industry
>>Jon Swartz, Chronicle Staff Writer
>>Thursday, February 19, 1998

>Or the version her innermost self expressed:

>> In Feinstein's view, ``This whole information thing is moving so
>> fast that one has to be sure that kids are protected,'' she said.
>> ``I'm concerned when kids blow themselves up by building bombs (they
>> learned to make) by reading things in the encyclopedia. There is a
>> philosophy that anything goes. This is why I support the repeal of
>> the First Amendment and prison terms for thought criminals."

>She's a buffoon who is probably the first one who'll be sent to the wall
>if there's ever a Second American Revolution.

Third. We had a Second American Revolution and we lost.

>As for her concern about Social Security numbers being posted online, did
>it ever occur to her and her ilk that perhaps the problem is the
>widespread use of SS numbers by increasing numbers of government
>agencies, by requirements that banks use them, by requirements that motor
>vehicle departments use them, and so on?

>"Duh."

>The solution is not a new set of laws to felonize information like this,
>but the elimination of the SS number as a universal identifier. Far too
>late for that, of course, but Fineswine's laws won't help anybody. In
>fact, law enforcement will continue its abuse of SS numbers, its role in
>falsifying records and official documents, and so on.

Well this goes back to the "privacy rights" debate that has been going off
and on the list for quite awhlie now. The key to the whole thing is not
more bad laws and government regulation but removing the power of the
State to collect the information in the first place. (If we didn't have
the corrupt and bankrupt SS program then we wouldn't have to worry about
how SS #'s were used would we?)

>Let's try to be sure DiFi is in D.C. when Abu Nidal makes his move.

I figure the best time for a strike is during a Presidential Inagural
Address or a State of the Union when all the players are in DC in one
convenient location.

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html                        
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: "Luke!  I'm your father!"  Bill Gates, 1980

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 06:10:21 +0800
To: Alan Olsen 
Subject: Re: bugged?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980219181444.0087fd60@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>Sounds like he has a 56k modem and his ISP just upgraded to the same sort
>of 56k modem he has.  That is part of the protocol negotiation.  (In the
>future, it will take 30 minutes to finish connecting with a modem, but we
>will all get 666k transmission speed over normal phone lines.)

Yeah.  Credit-card verification terminals and similar devices are typically
locked into some low speed, 300 baud or 1200 or rarely 2400,
because they don't have many characters to send in a standard transaction,
and the slow speeds have a much faster setup/training time, especially
when they don't have to adaptively negotiate a connection speed.
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 06:11:39 +0800
To: cryptography@c2.net
Subject: US law on re-exporting crypto software?
Message-ID: <883a59b4f8023618756b179357fba606@anon.efga.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



An article in the current issue of the German journal `Datenschutz und
Datensicherheit' claims that exporting crypto software from anywhere
outside the US to a third country violates US law if the software
contains (only marginal amounts of) US-developed code, such as a C
standard library, and that anyone distributing crypto software that
has been compiled with an American compiler had better not visit the
United States.  Is that true?





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Curtis Yarvin 
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 11:16:28 +0800
To: ichudov@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Digital copy prot3ction
In-Reply-To: <199802200216.UAA09021@manifold.algebra.com>
Message-ID: <199802200259.SAA10250@ammonia.geoworks.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> 
> I can hardly believe that any of these schemes are undefeatable.
> 
> As soon as the CPU starts talking to a video and sound board, 
> this whole thing becomes easily breakable. All one needs to do is
> to capture the signals that go to these boards and re-record them.

In general, there's no way of building a secure system that
prevents copying of information, but permits its consumption.
The two are too closely related.

The best you could do is a tamper-resistant hardware key on
the audio/video card.  (This locks you into a design where
the content is decoded on the card, which may be suboptimal.)
And anyone who can crack the crypto chip can get unprotected
digital copies and distribute them.  This is probably doable
by the same kind of people who set up pirate CD factories.

I'm sure Intel knows this.  I doubt the content companies do.
It's not Intel's goal to create an undefeatable protection
system; it's Intel's goal to convince the content companies
that it has done so.  This seems to have been achieved.

Curtis Yarvin
(not speaking for Geoworks)





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Attila T. Hun" 
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 03:51:07 +0800
To: Tim May 
Subject: Re: Anthrax--The Horsemen are Riding
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <19980219.183321.attila@hun.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

on or about 980219:0959, in , 
    Tim May  was purported to have 
    expostulated to perpetuate an opinion:

>CNN is reporting a news flash, with few details, about two men being
>arrested in Las Vegas for making or possessing or planning to make
>anthrax. Details should be emerging, but I have a hunch it's a witch
>hunt, an invocation of the Four Horsement, to drum up support for
>Clinton's Dirty Little War.
>
    The Gulf of Tonkin all over again. playing on the strings of
    perceived public patriotism

>Now, just what are the chances of such an arrest *exactly* as the USG is
>rattling sabers over Saddam's alleged anthrax and other CBW items?

    my calculator only displays to 10^-999

>It seems highly likely that the word went out to local FBI offices to
>"beat the bushes" to produce some news headlines.
>
    Ruby Ridge, Waco, Oklahoma City...     

>"Find us some jimbells we can show to the American public as proof that
>an undeclared, unsupported war with Iraq is justified."
>
    "jimbells"  -there but for the grace of God, go we...

    just like Waco underlined the need for more government suppression
    of whatever, or whomever, in the interest of public safety.

>Expect more raids on "terrorist cells." Expect more coincidental findings
>of chemicals and supplies which _could_ be used to make banned items.

>Expect the usual suspects, like Fineswine, to call for limits on free
>communications ("which are being used by terrorists") and cryptography.
>
    and get something legislated which might be stricken by the 
    Supreme Court. if we're lucky.

    [snip]

>And this time around the public's interest in Saddam is ho-hum, the
>support of other nations is lukewarm to nonexistent, the goals of a war
>are completely unclear, and Congress appears unwilling to vote support.
    
    [snip]

>And yet the war will probably happen. Clinton, the draft dodger and
>antiwar activist (factual statement, not a judgement on his actions in
>the 60s), _needs_ a Nice Little War.
           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    the desire to change leaders in the middle of a ScheiBsturm may
    be possible this time; Bush needed a nice little war, but as you
    point out, there was a specific issue: Kuwait. and George did not
    have the scandal, after scandal, ad nauseam...

    [snip]

>If a couple of guys in Las Vegas can get busted for doing Illegal
>Experiments, regardless of whether actual anthrax is ever found, then why
>do we think Iraqi, Libyan, Sudanese, and other such nations have not
>long, long had the means to disperse anthrax in nations which bomb them,
>kill their children, and tell the U.N. to boycott them?

    all it takes is a sufficient catalyst, an enabling act, to push 
    someone over the edge. who really needs nukes and their intendant 
    delivery problems.  our brave warriors claim Iraq does not have
    the means to deliver CBW --yeah, right.  it may be true they can
    not deliver it without suiciding the agents, but since when has
    the Arab world ever lacked for martyrs to execute a fatwah?

>Like I always say, avoid "soft targets." Avoid the Schelling points for
>attacks, the sites any self-respecting terrorist, freedom fighter, or
>patriot would attack first.

    bullies do not understand this; certainly not Saddam, and it
    is becoming obvious that Bubba is willing to do anything, 
    including selling our Americans to distract us from the almost 
    inevitable fact that his "need" for satisfaction warrants the lies
    and coverup.

>When Washington, the president not the pesthole, advised us to "avoid
>foreign wars," we should have heeded him. 
>
    we would be a lot better off if we had heeded not only the foreign
    wars admonition, but a great many more of Washington's farewell
    address. you never see it quoted en toto for the masses, never
    printed full page in the Times, never even taught in our schools
    --because it does not serve the interests of the ruling classes.

>America has become Amerika,
>Policeman to the World, ready to inject herself into foreign wars in
>Bosnia, Haiti, Ruwanda, Somalia, Viet Nam, Korea, El Salvador, Kuwait,
>and on and on.

    Pax Amerikana: may commerce prevail for Amerikan suits to
    rape, pillage, and burn uninhibited around the world. welcome
    to the interests of big money, central banks, and the NWO.

>"Pouring out the phials" may be rough justice for Amerika.

    you aren't downwind from Las Vegas and we were hit with 
    government experiments from the test range which not only
    dropped radioactive fallout, but anthrax.

    of course, it would not bother me if Washington, the pesthole,
    became a ghost town of rotting CongressCritters and bureaucrats.

    maybe Bubba should take this little walk around the memorials
    (unfortunately ignoring the last one which would displeased him, 
    but which would do us the most good):

        Clinton, distraught and contemplating his latest scandal 
        was walking through Washington looking for any kind of
        guidance. 

        He walks up to the Washington Monument, looks up and says,
        "George, you were always wise, what should I do?" 

        Low and behold, a voice comes down from above and says,
        "ABOLISH THE I.R.S. AND START OVER." Clinton, amazed that
        he is talking to the past President thinks he'll try it
        again. 

        He walks over to the Jefferson Memorial and utters the
        same request. "Thomas, you never had these kind of
        problems, what can I do to rally people behind me?" 

        Again a voice from above answers, "WELFARE, ITS NOT
        WORKING, ABOLISH IT, START OVER." 

        After hearing this Clinton is so excited he is planning to
        go to all the historic sites for guidance. Next he goes to
        the Lincoln Memorial.  "Abe, I need your help, people are
        losing confidence in me and they no longer trust me what
        should I do?"

        After a substantial pause Abe responds, "TAKE THE DAY OFF,
        GO TO THE THEATER."


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3i
Charset: latin1
Comment: No safety this side of the grave. Never was; never will be

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-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 12:09:44 +0800
To: "Brian B. Riley" 
Subject: Re: PLO censoring pro-Iraqi sentiments
In-Reply-To: <199802200322.WAA27685@mx02.together.net>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 7:22 PM -0800 2/19/98, Brian B. Riley wrote:

>>> The next time you "cheer to see the U.S. gets its tail kicked", why
>>> don't you think about the American troops who lost their lives or
>were
>>> maimed, or who were doing something they may have been personally and
>>> morally against, but they chose to be professional soldiers, and
>instead
>>> of displaying cowardice, they tried to do what was asked of them.
>
> I prefer to view what Tim said in the context that "Amerika" the ugly
>got its tail kicked in the broader sense. I don't believe that Tim took
>any pleasure in seeing American soldiers getting killed.

Precisely. I took no special glee in seeing U.S. soldiers killed in
Somalia. (By the way, I also took no special glee in seeing young Russian
boys burning to death as their Hind helicopter plummeted to the ground
after being hit by a Redeye or Stinger missile...but I was happy to see the
Russian invaders have their asses kicked.)

The United States has undertaken in the last half of this century to get
involved in exactly the sort of "foreign wars" that Washington warned us
of. Adventurism, really.

That some young American boys (and a few girls) die in such vanity wars is
regrettable, but it doesn't change my view of the wars, or the wish I have
that the U.S. lose the wars and so, perhaps, rethink its adventurist,
imperialist, statist, New World Big Brother Order geopolitical view.

Since the lessons really didn't take in past wars, whether won or lost, I'm
really, really, really hoping for a debacle in this one. The sinking of an
aircraft carrier, with the deaths of several thousand young boys, might do
it.

As for their deaths, their choice is to not enlist. Or, if they enlisted,
to refuse to go the Gulf for this war.

(A Santa Cruz local, Erik Larsen, did exactly this in Desert Storm. He
refused to go.)

If they go fight in Clinton's dirty little vanity war, and they get killed,
tough shit. Think of it as evolution in action.

And as for the thread name here, "PLO censoring pro-Iraqi sentiments, it's
reprehensible that the U.S. is pushing a "peace process" which condones
this kind of censorship. Better to just let the Arabs fight the Jews,
without any funding from U.S. slave-taxpayer-units. If the Arabs kill all
the Jews I'll say it was a really, really stupid ideas for a bunch of Jews
from Poland and Germany and Russia to go kick out a bunch of "sand niggers"
and "ragheads" and not expect retribution to someday arrive.

Oh, and spare me the typical Zionist rhetoric about how "YHWH" or Whatever
It's Damned Name Is "promised" this land to the Jews, despite their Polish
or Russian or Ukrainian residency and genetics for thousands of years.

Fucking religious fruitcakes.


--Tim May

Just Say No to "Big Brother Inside"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^3,021,377   | black markets, collapse of governments.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Daniel J. Boone" 
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 13:21:53 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199802200515.UAA00982@ptialaska.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Barry Wainwright wrote:
> 
> At 4:51 pm -0500 on 10/2/98, sombody pretending to be Brian B. Riley wrote:
> 
> > Alabama licenses have the holder's SSN on them (because that way
> >the state gets more Federal highway $), except his parents had never
> >applied to get him one, because of their religion.
> 
> What religion precludes the holding of a SS no.?

Here's one: Western Sect Freedonianism.  Check out 

http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/2110/F_Freedonian.html



-- J.Q. Lurker





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 10:27:20 +0800
To: cypherpunks@www.video-collage.com
Subject: Digital copy prot3ction
Message-ID: <199802200216.UAA09021@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text




I can hardly believe that any of these schemes are undefeatable.

As soon as the CPU starts talking to a video and sound board, 
this whole thing becomes easily breakable. All one needs to do is
to capture the signals that go to these boards and re-record them.

Right?

======================================================================
Thursday February 19, 3:58 am Eastern Time

Firms said to agree on digital anti-piracy system

LOS ANGELES, Feb 19 (Reuters) - Five giants of the computer and
electronics industries have agreed on technology designed to protect
Hollywood's most valuable products from being illegally copied, a
newspaper reported on Thursday.

The Los Angeles Times said Sony Corp (NYSE:SNE - news; 6758.T), Intel
Corp(INTC - news), Matsushita Electric Industrial Co (MSES.KL), Toshiba
Corp (6502.T) and Hitachi Ltd (NYSE:HIT - news; 6501.T) were expected
to announce later on Thursday a proposal to deploy encryption technology
that will prevent people from making illicit copies of copyright digital
content.

The deal could be a breakthrough for the entertainment industry, which
has been wary of the ease with which digitally distributed material can be
endlessly copied without any degradation in quality, the newspaper said.

``If somebody tries to violate a copyright, it won't work,'' the
newspaper quoted Mike Aymar, vice president of consumer products at Intel,
as saying.

``The goal is that you'll see products on the marketplace that support
this by the end of the year,'' Aymar said.

The proposed technology would have no effect on televisions, video
cassette recorders or computers already in use, the paper said.

It said the agreement was presented on Wednesday in Burbank, California,
to the Copy Protection Technical Working Group, a committee that is
led by major movie studios and includes representatives of the music,
computer, software and electronics industries.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 10:37:58 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Digital copy prot3ction (fwd)
Message-ID: <199802200241.UAA20917@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Subject: Digital copy prot3ction
> Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 20:16:49 -0600 (CST)
> From: ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home)

> I can hardly believe that any of these schemes are undefeatable.
> 
> As soon as the CPU starts talking to a video and sound board, 
> this whole thing becomes easily breakable. All one needs to do is
> to capture the signals that go to these boards and re-record them.
> 
> Right?

> The proposed technology would have no effect on televisions, video
> cassette recorders or computers already in use, the paper said.

I suspect that this part is the key, what they will propose is some
mechanism to alter the chipsets from the one currently implimented. Expect
them to impliment something similar to the DAT tape systems where the machine
won't execute a copy function if it sees the correct signal.


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |            When a man assumes a public trust, he should            |
   |            consider himself public property.                       |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                      Thomas Jefferson              |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Eric J. Tune" 
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 13:02:39 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: PLO censoring pro-Iraqi sentiments
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980219204255.007c3680@pop3.lvcablemodem.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>Eric Tune writes:
>
>> You know Tim, I respect most of what you write, and I respect you in
>> that you have your own free will and opinions and the right to express
>> them, but what you have forgotten in your anarchistic ravings is that
>> PEOPLE DIED IN SOMALIA, including a personal friend of mine.  They were
>> all somebody's son, brother, and friend. 
>
>So were the 100,000 Iraqi military killed by Bush, and the 1,000,000
>Iraqis of all ages killed by US sanctions.  So were the civilians
>bulldozed into mass graves in Panama, so the country would look neat and
>tidy for the arrival of the ReportWhores.
>
>What the world needs now is not another mass killing of Iraqis by the
>United States government.  What the world really needs now is a fifty
>dollar weapon that sinks aircraft carriers.
>
>> These soldiers went where they were ordered to go, as befits a soldier,
>> and tried to do the job they were given and accomplish the mission, and
>> for that EVERY ONE OF THEM DESERVES Y O U R RESPECT.  I am quite sure
>> the vast majority of them thought it was patently stupid to go to
>> Somalia in the first place, but a soldier follows orders, legal ones,
>> and tries to get the job done regardless of personal feelings.
>
>Most of them would probably follow "legal orders" to fire upon American
>civilians too.  

You ever served in the military?  Unless you've been under fire, you should
shut the fuck up about shit you know nothing about nor could comprehend.

>> The next time you "cheer to see the U.S. gets its tail kicked", why
>> don't you think about the American troops who lost their lives or were
>> maimed, or who were doing something they may have been personally and
>> morally against, but they chose to be professional soldiers, and instead
>> of displaying cowardice, they tried to do what was asked of them. 
>
>The universe does not view the lives of Americans as more valuable than
>the lives of people murdered by Americans. 

Listen up jerk, in case you didn't get any news during 1990, Iraq attacked
Kuwait, and murdered thousands of Kuwaitis.  "Don't start no shit and there
won't be no shit"... ever heard that, asshole?  America would have never
been involved if Iraq hadn't invaded Kuwait.  I was there, in a Bradley,
and we could have rolled all over Baghdad, especially after what the Iraqi
bastards did to the Kuwaitis, but it wasn't done. Unfortunately Saddam
Hussein stayed in power.  There will not be a shred of a chance for peace
in that region until he is DEAD.  I don't think air strikes are the answer
to this, and I think Clinton is a moron for his present policy, War is the
worst thing that man can do to other men, and there is no such thing as
"the good fight"... war is hell. Period.  Until you have been in a war, you
have no idea of what you are talking about.  But if you think that Iraq was
"more right" or better yet, "less wrong", you need a radical lobotomy, or
perhaps you've already had one.

>> Think of the innocent civilians who inevitably die in the conflicts
>> started by the megalomaniacs like Saddam Hussein.
>
>You mean all those melted child car seats and scorched teddy bears on
>George Bush's "Highway of Death" leading out of Kuwait? 

Evidently, you again know nothing of what the Iraqis did to the Kuwaitis on
their way in to Kuwait.  Get educated, shithead. 

>Unfortunately, for all the braying Americans do about freedom, Americans
>can never be truly happy unless someone is telling them what to do, or
>they are telling someone else what to do, or they are bombing someone for
>not doing what they have told them to do. 
>
>The only thing Americans understand is dead Americans.  The only thing. 

You sound like nothing more than disillusioned, spoiled, pompous asshole
when you presume to know what Americans "understand".  Your anarchistic
ravings only mark you for the idiot you are.

To everyone else besides Cordian who reads this, my apologies, but for all
it's failings, I still have pride in America... ...not for all the foreign
policy bullshit or the way the government fucks us over, or starts wars, or
sticks their collective nose in other countries business...but for the fact
that as a whole people, Americans still keep trying, everyday, to be a
better people. I'm proud of that.

Eric Tune





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 14:20:21 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: "My country, right or wrong"
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980219140712.007bda40@pop3.lvcablemodem.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 2:07 PM -0800 2/19/98, Eric J. Tune wrote:

>>
>[SHIT REMOVED]
>


I think this item, and your other frothings, show why you should not be
taken seriously.

Once again, a lurker who has never posted any substantive ideas delurks to
foam and spew insults.

In any case, all of the arguments I have seen from you boil down to that
tired old chestnut:

"My country, right or wrong."

A good attitude for cannon fodder to have.  Not such a good attitude for
free men to have.

Time to add you to my ever-growing killfile.

--Tim May

Just Say No to "Big Brother Inside"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^3,021,377   | black markets, collapse of governments.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Brian B. Riley" 
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 11:40:56 +0800
To: 
Subject: Re: PLO censoring pro-Iraqi sentiments
Message-ID: <199802200322.WAA27685@mx02.together.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----


>> The next time you "cheer to see the U.S. gets its tail kicked", why
>> don't you think about the American troops who lost their lives or
were
>> maimed, or who were doing something they may have been personally and
>> morally against, but they chose to be professional soldiers, and
instead
>> of displaying cowardice, they tried to do what was asked of them. 

 I prefer to view what Tim said in the context that "Amerika" the ugly
got its tail kicked in the broader sense. I don't believe that Tim took
any pleasure in seeing American soldiers getting killed.

  The fact remains that we, Amerika, did get our tail kicked in Somalia;
like Viet Nam it was little reflection on the troops but a reflection of
the of a command staff being run by Washington DC Apparatchiki all
suffering from cranio-rectal inversion. America deserves all the
ridicule that has been heaped upon it for those fiascos; only ... some
time, maybe we can but hope the we will finally learn at least one
lesson and get it right once before I go for the long sleep!
 

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Brian B. Riley --> http://members.macconnect.com/~brianbr
  For PGP Keys  

 "Despite the bleating of various socialistically-anointed
 freakshow groups, the vast majority of us realize that bringing
 children into the world is not only the most wonderful endeavor
 with which we can be associated but absolutely essential if we
 aren't going to put ourselves on the EPA's endangered species
 list."  Winston Borden






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 06:20:43 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Anthrax--The Horsemen are Riding
Message-ID: <199802192135.WAA17978@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Yet another wrong call by Tim "Chicken Little" May:

>CNN is reporting a news flash, with few details, about two men being
>arrested in Las Vegas for making or possessing or planning to make
>anthrax. Details should be emerging, but I have a hunch it's a witch
>hunt, an invocation of the Four Horsement, to drum up support for
>Clinton's Dirty Little War.

Nonsense.  This has nothing to do with Saddam.  These men are from the
Aryan Nation, a militia group (and one which Tim secretly supports, being
a strong believer in Aryan superiority).  No wonder he is upset, when
his favorite racists are shown to be just another bunch of terrorists,
willing to kill innocents to promote their hate-filled cause.

>"Find us some jimbells we can show to the American public as proof that
>an undeclared, unsupported war with Iraq is justified."

How incoherent can you get?  How on earth can terrorism by the militias
be related to the war in Iraq?  Jeez, what an idiot.

>Wanna bet they also bring crypto in this media circus?

This would be funny if it weren't so sad.  And you guys really _respect_
someone who would write this nonsense?

It's a sad story when the one who is supposed to be the brains of the
group is this stupid.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 15:21:39 +0800
To: "Attila T. Hun" 
Subject: Re: onward, Clinton soldiers / not so fast, Sen. Lott
In-Reply-To: <19980220.000200.attila@hun.org>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980219223651.007da660@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>Iran's popular, elected leader, Mohammed Mossadegh, attempts to
>assert Iranian control of his nation's oil industry, whose
>profits go to the US and Britain.  A CIA coup overthrows
>Mossadegh, and puts `our boy' Reza Shah on the throne.  Iran's
>US-trained secret police keep the Shah in power through a reign
>of terror.  Islamic-nationalist revolution sweeps Iran in 1979,
>ending US domination.

A minor correction - while the CIA wanted to overthrow Mossadegh,
they screwed up, and had very little part in actually doing it.
The British were the main instigators of the coup, which had a 
fair amount of popular support, and which went fast enough that the
CIA was caught by surprise - they hadn't even spent a tenth of their
bribery slush fund yet.  

So why does everybody keep saying that the CIA put the Shah in power?
Because in the early 60s, trying to repair their reputation after the
Bay Of Pigs fiasco, the CIA put out a lot of PR taking credit for it,
and since it was the kind of thing they would have done if they 
hadn't missed the starting gun, people pretty much believed them.
And a lot of Iranians have been blaming them for it ever since.

[References:  Some book I read a while back.  Don't remember the
title or the author, but the author was Iranian, so he may have
had his own axe to grind; certainly the CIA had their cloak and dagger
to grind in this whole mess.]

				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 14:59:09 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: The Eloquence of Eric J. Tune
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980219204255.007c3680@pop3.lvcablemodem.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 8:42 PM -0800 2/19/98, Eric J. Tune wrote:

>You ever served in the military?  Unless you've been under fire, you should
>shut the fuck up about shit you know nothing about nor could comprehend.
...
>Listen up jerk.... "Don't start no shit and there
>won't be no shit"... ever heard that, asshole?
...
>Get educated, shithead.
...
>You sound like nothing more than disillusioned, spoiled, pompous asshole


Such eloquence! He must've learned it in the military.

Very persuasive, too. Persuasive to a certain kind of person.

Wasted on this list, though.


--Tim May


Just Say No to "Big Brother Inside"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^3,021,377   | black markets, collapse of governments.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 15:23:05 +0800
To: Eric Cordian 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980219231708.007da950@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>> Nonsense.  This has nothing to do with Saddam.  These men are from the
>> Aryan Nation, a militia group (and one which Tim secretly supports, being
...
>This has everything to do with Sadaam.  These individuals came to the
>attention of the government a long time ago, have been under surveilance,
>and their carefully timed arrest today, at the precise moment needed to
>give the Sheeple an overdose of Biological Warfare sound bytes, is hardly

The Wag The Dog war has almost nothing to do with Saddam, but I agree
that the Anthrax Nation supporters are being brought out specifically
to scare the population.  One of the comments on the radio was that
the perp was bragging about having military-grade anthrax.
They didn't say whose military was in the anthrax-grading business,
but it's probably those evil manufacturers of weapons of Mass destruction --
The Pentagon.  

.  Are we going to have to levitate the Pentagon again?
Is there some way to just do it over the net?  :-)


And yes, even through Freeh hasn't been quoted about the need for
wiretaps in the radio stories I've heard so far, I'm sure he will be.

> Of course, it could also just be monumental stupidity on his timing (to
> confirm the FBI's "dumb criminal" model).
Nah - he's a perpetual "usual suspect" type.
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 12:46:24 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IFCA
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 21:52:04 -0400
X-Authentication-Warning: online.offshore.com.ai: list set sender to
fc98-request@offshore.com.ai using -f
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 02:33:04 +0100 (MET)
From: Ray Hirschfeld 
To: fc98@offshore.com.ai
Subject: IFCA
Resent-From: fc98@offshore.com.ai
X-Mailing-List:  archive/latest
X-Loop: fc98@offshore.com.ai
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: fc98-request@offshore.com.ai

The second year of a new conference is perhaps the most difficult--the
novelty has worn off but the conference is not yet firmly established.
But all indications for FC98 are promising.  Another success next week
will be a signal to do it again next year.

A new organization, the International Financial Cryptography
Association (IFCA) has been formed to support future meetings of the
Financial Cryptography conference.  IFCA will not only be responsible
for organizational aspects of the conference, but will also select the
program chair.  All paid registrations of FC98 will automatically
receive a year's membership in IFCA (unless they indicate that they do
not wish to join).  Others may join by paying membership dues.  A
first general meeting of IFCA will be held on the evening of Tuesday
February 24, just before the conference rump session, and all members
are encouraged to attend.

The main purposes of the meeting will be to elect directors and to
discuss possible locations for FC99 (and perhaps FC00).  If you are
interested in hosting an FC conference and can provide some logistic
support for it, you are invited to bring a proposal to the meeting.
Ideas tossed around so far have mostly focused on other "financial
island" locations, e.g., Grand Cayman, Hong Kong, Manhattan, Jersey,
etc., but anyplace reasonable will be considered.  (There will almost
certainly be insufficient information available at the time of the
meeting to make a decision, but an indication of the wishes of the
membership will be gathered to help guide the directors.)

--- end forwarded text



-----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/
Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: 






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 15:31:14 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Letting Israel Twist Slowly in the Desert Wind
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 8:48 PM -0800 2/19/98, William H. Geiger III wrote:

>I find it quite intresting how members will bemone the plight of the
>Plaistinians in Israel yet no one ever mentions the fact that 80% of the
>population of Jordan is Palistinian. Nor do they mention the reasons *why*

So? The land taken from a Palestinian farmer and given to a Polish Jew, for
example, remains his, morally. That a neighboring country has many persons
similar to him does not reduce his loss.

80% of Oregon is Aryan, just as I am. And yet if a bunch of Jews, for
example, kicked me off my land, land I had title to, and I fled to Oregon
to live in a tent, I'd still be fighting those who kicked me off my land.
Even if the Jewish Grand Foofah declared that God had "given" California to
the Jews 3000 years ago.

Oregon is under no obligation to absorb the Aryans kicked out of California
by the Jews. And the farm or land lost is still lost, regardless of any
"absorbtion." The canard about how Jordan is racially similar to the
Palestinians is neither here nor there...the Palestinian farmer who used to
grow oranges in Jaffa is hardly satisfied to learn that his land has been
stolen by a Polish Jew, but that neighboring Jordan has a lot of
Palestinians!

(BTW, I use the word Aryan in place of the word Caucasian, which is no
longer in scientific use, and was a dumb characterization of Aryans,
anyway. )

>the PLO was operating out of Lebanon in the 70's and early 80's (for those
>of you who don't know it's because they tried to overthrow the government
>in Jordan and the King sent the troops out to slaughter them.) Nor is
>there any mention that historically there was never any county of
>Palistine until the British created it out of what was known as

Who cares if their was a nation-state or not? Just give them back their
land. Period. Nation-states are a modern creation anyway.

>Trans-Jordan which again was a creation of the British after the defete of
>the Ottoman Empire (the Turks for the less informed) durring WWI. Lets not
>forget that the British promised both the Jews and the Palistinians their
>own country (unfortunatly they promised them both the same peice of land).
>And god forbid no one ever mentions the fact that the UN created both a
>State of Israel and a State of Palistine in 1945 and the Palistinians
>rather than declare thier independence and form a governemnt joined with
>the rest of the Arab states in going to war against the Jews currently
>living in Palistine. They then were promptly handed their asses by the
>Israelies *without* help from the British or the US (as an intresting side
>note it was the Russians who were the first to reconise the State of
>Israel not any of the western governments).

I agree it's a mess. So why is the U.S. sending $5 billion a year extorted
from American slave-units to subsidize Israel's military and lifestyle, and
about as much to Egypt to subsidize whatever corruptions it favors?

I say pull out, stop the funding, and let American Jews send their money if
they want to. Let the Arabs and Jews fight it out. Just don't require me to
pay for it or to pay for soldiers to be sent to defend one side or the
other.

And use crypto and suchlike to destabilize the Zionist regime in various ways.


>Now some may wish to extend the lame argument that the British didn't have
>the right to carve up the middle east nor did the Jews have the right to
>immegrate to Israel. Well the simple fact of the matter is that *every*
>country in exsistance today has been created by one group of people
>conquering another. All the countries of North *and* South America were
>formed that way. The empires of the Incas and Aztecs were formed the same
>way. The various tribes of North America gaind control of their "huntting
>grounds" by taking them away from those that were there before.

Whatever the history lesson, all I ask is that slave labor (taxes) not be
used over there, nor that cannon fodder be sent over there to die.

--Tim May

Just Say No to "Big Brother Inside"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^3,021,377   | black markets, collapse of governments.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 13:49:39 +0800
To: "Eric J. Tune" 
Subject: Re: PLO censoring pro-Iraqi sentiments
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980219204255.007c3680@pop3.lvcablemodem.com>
Message-ID: <199802200612.BAA31481@users.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In <3.0.5.32.19980219204255.007c3680@pop3.lvcablemodem.com>, on 02/19/98 
   at 08:42 PM, "Eric J. Tune"  said:


>>Eric Tune writes:
>>
>>> You know Tim, I respect most of what you write, and I respect you in
>>> that you have your own free will and opinions and the right to express
>>> them, but what you have forgotten in your anarchistic ravings is that
>>> PEOPLE DIED IN SOMALIA, including a personal friend of mine.  They were
>>> all somebody's son, brother, and friend. 
>>
>>So were the 100,000 Iraqi military killed by Bush, and the 1,000,000
>>Iraqis of all ages killed by US sanctions.  So were the civilians
>>bulldozed into mass graves in Panama, so the country would look neat and
>>tidy for the arrival of the ReportWhores.
>>
>>What the world needs now is not another mass killing of Iraqis by the
>>United States government.  What the world really needs now is a fifty
>>dollar weapon that sinks aircraft carriers.
>>
>>> These soldiers went where they were ordered to go, as befits a soldier,
>>> and tried to do the job they were given and accomplish the mission, and
>>> for that EVERY ONE OF THEM DESERVES Y O U R RESPECT.  I am quite sure
>>> the vast majority of them thought it was patently stupid to go to
>>> Somalia in the first place, but a soldier follows orders, legal ones,
>>> and tries to get the job done regardless of personal feelings.
>>
>>Most of them would probably follow "legal orders" to fire upon American
>>civilians too.  

>You ever served in the military?  Unless you've been under fire, you
>should shut the fuck up about shit you know nothing about nor could
>comprehend.

>>> The next time you "cheer to see the U.S. gets its tail kicked", why
>>> don't you think about the American troops who lost their lives or were
>>> maimed, or who were doing something they may have been personally and
>>> morally against, but they chose to be professional soldiers, and instead
>>> of displaying cowardice, they tried to do what was asked of them. 
>>
>>The universe does not view the lives of Americans as more valuable than
>>the lives of people murdered by Americans. 

>Listen up jerk, in case you didn't get any news during 1990, Iraq
>attacked Kuwait, and murdered thousands of Kuwaitis.  "Don't start no
>shit and there won't be no shit"... ever heard that, asshole?  America
>would have never been involved if Iraq hadn't invaded Kuwait.  I was
>there, in a Bradley, and we could have rolled all over Baghdad,
>especially after what the Iraqi bastards did to the Kuwaitis, but it
>wasn't done. Unfortunately Saddam Hussein stayed in power.  There will
>not be a shred of a chance for peace in that region until he is DEAD.  I
>don't think air strikes are the answer to this, and I think Clinton is a
>moron for his present policy, War is the worst thing that man can do to
>other men, and there is no such thing as "the good fight"... war is hell.
>Period.  Until you have been in a war, you have no idea of what you are
>talking about.  But if you think that Iraq was "more right" or better
>yet, "less wrong", you need a radical lobotomy, or perhaps you've already
>had one.

>>> Think of the innocent civilians who inevitably die in the conflicts
>>> started by the megalomaniacs like Saddam Hussein.
>>
>>You mean all those melted child car seats and scorched teddy bears on
>>George Bush's "Highway of Death" leading out of Kuwait? 

>Evidently, you again know nothing of what the Iraqis did to the Kuwaitis
>on their way in to Kuwait.  Get educated, shithead. 

>>Unfortunately, for all the braying Americans do about freedom, Americans
>>can never be truly happy unless someone is telling them what to do, or
>>they are telling someone else what to do, or they are bombing someone for
>>not doing what they have told them to do. 
>>
>>The only thing Americans understand is dead Americans.  The only thing. 

>You sound like nothing more than disillusioned, spoiled, pompous asshole
>when you presume to know what Americans "understand".  Your anarchistic
>ravings only mark you for the idiot you are.

>To everyone else besides Cordian who reads this, my apologies, but for
>all it's failings, I still have pride in America... ...not for all the
>foreign policy bullshit or the way the government fucks us over, or
>starts wars, or sticks their collective nose in other countries
>business...but for the fact that as a whole people, Americans still keep
>trying, everyday, to be a better people. I'm proud of that.

Wow! I haven't seen this kind of reactionary temper-tantrum since the last
4th of July BBQ down at the VFW.

So how long were you in?? Usally this type of "God save the King"
mentality wears off after a boot has been in the field for a few months.
For the more febal minded it lasts longer but they usally never make it
above Cpl. or 1st Lt.

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html                        
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: Bugs come in through open Windows.

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 14:42:12 +0800
To: Tim May 
Subject: Re: PLO censoring pro-Iraqi sentiments
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199802200656.BAA31853@users.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In , on 02/19/98 
   at 08:04 PM, Tim May  said:

>And as for the thread name here, "PLO censoring pro-Iraqi sentiments,
>it's reprehensible that the U.S. is pushing a "peace process" which
>condones this kind of censorship. Better to just let the Arabs fight the
>Jews, without any funding from U.S. slave-taxpayer-units. If the Arabs
>kill all the Jews I'll say it was a really, really stupid ideas for a
>bunch of Jews from Poland and Germany and Russia to go kick out a bunch
>of "sand niggers" and "ragheads" and not expect retribution to someday
>arrive.

>Oh, and spare me the typical Zionist rhetoric about how "YHWH" or
>Whatever It's Damned Name Is "promised" this land to the Jews, despite
>their Polish or Russian or Ukrainian residency and genetics for thousands
>of years.

Well the polotics of the middle east and the history of the Jews both in
and out of Israel are much more convoluted that Tim and other would make
it out to be.

I find it quite intresting how members will bemone the plight of the
Plaistinians in Israel yet no one ever mentions the fact that 80% of the
population of Jordan is Palistinian. Nor do they mention the reasons *why*
the PLO was operating out of Lebanon in the 70's and early 80's (for those
of you who don't know it's because they tried to overthrow the government
in Jordan and the King sent the troops out to slaughter them.) Nor is
there any mention that historically there was never any county of
Palistine until the British created it out of what was known as
Trans-Jordan which again was a creation of the British after the defete of
the Ottoman Empire (the Turks for the less informed) durring WWI. Lets not
forget that the British promised both the Jews and the Palistinians their
own country (unfortunatly they promised them both the same peice of land).
And god forbid no one ever mentions the fact that the UN created both a
State of Israel and a State of Palistine in 1945 and the Palistinians
rather than declare thier independence and form a governemnt joined with
the rest of the Arab states in going to war against the Jews currently
living in Palistine. They then were promptly handed their asses by the
Israelies *without* help from the British or the US (as an intresting side
note it was the Russians who were the first to reconise the State of
Israel not any of the western governments).


Now some may wish to extend the lame argument that the British didn't have
the right to carve up the middle east nor did the Jews have the right to
immegrate to Israel. Well the simple fact of the matter is that *every*
country in exsistance today has been created by one group of people
conquering another. All the countries of North *and* South America were
formed that way. The empires of the Incas and Aztecs were formed the same
way. The various tribes of North America gaind control of their "huntting
grounds" by taking them away from those that were there before.


So wine and cry all you want about Israel and the Evil Zionist but they
have the strongest military in the area (and one of the best skilled in
the world) and they have a shitload of Nukes. They ain't going anywhere
with or without any help from the US. (for those of you silly enough to
think the US should force them out or let the Russian backed Arabs do the
job I sugest a reading of the Masada Plan).

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html                        
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: OS/2: Windows with bullet-proof glass.

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 16:15:53 +0800
To: Akshay Vashist 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980219235016.0089fa80@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 01:03 PM 2/18/98 +0530, Akshay Vashist wrote:
>Hi,
>   Could somebody point me to some of the software implementations
>of the cryptographic algorithms ( RSA , DES ,3DES ) .Actually,
>Iam interested in evaluating their performance on firewalls etc.,
>so if there are sites, that contain their performance metrics/data
>and the time it takes to break them ( approximately , on an average
>m/c say sun ultra sparc ), please  do mail  me.Any help is welcome.

There are a lot of good crypto web and ftp sites.
Look at ftp.ox.ac.uk and ftp.funet.fi .
Look at Ron Rivest's pages (AltaVista knows where they are.)


				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Attila T. Hun" 
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 09:10:09 +0800
To: "Timothy C. May" 
Subject: Re: putting down the US military
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980219140712.007bda40@pop3.lvcablemodem.com>
Message-ID: <19980220.000732.attila@hun.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

on or about 980219:1407, in <3.0.5.32.19980219140712.007bda40@pop3.lvcablemodem.com>, 
    "Eric J. Tune"  was purported to have 
    expostulated to perpetuate an opinion:

>From: Tim May 
>>
>>[SHIT REMOVED]

>>This is why I cheered to see the U.S. gets its tail kicked 
>>in Somalia and have to retreat in disgrace. Alas, the U.S. 
>>planners just looked for another war, one we could "win," 
>> and they found a bombed out Bosnia to be the perfect place 
>>to "restore our dignity."
>>
>>Amerika the Fascist.
>>
>>--Tim May
>>

Eric J. Tune wrote:

>You know Tim, I respect most of what you write, and I respect
>you in that you have your own free will and opinions and the
>right to express them, but what you have forgotten in your
>anarchistic ravings is that PEOPLE DIED IN SOMALIA, including a
>personal friend of mine.  They were all somebody's son, brother,
>and friend  [snip]
>
    my oldest son's LAR recon/black unit had been stood down for
    Somalia, gear turned in, etc.  we were finishing Christmas 
    dinner [two additional NCO's who did not live close enough
    to 29 Palms were also guests] --just about 4pm, the 'phone 
    rang...  I knew, and they knew. Bush had decided to go to 
    Somalia and the powers grabbed an always on standby high
    power unit: 21 LAV25s, etc.  vehicles and all were on C5s in
    14 hours. 

    having personally received those calls before does not
    prepare you for the call when it is _your_ son heading out
    for his first chance to stare the beast in the face and 
    stand it down...  or come home in a body bag.

Eric J. Tune wrote:

>The next time you "cheer to see the U.S. gets its tail kicked",
>why don't you think about the American troops who lost their
>lives or were maimed, or who were doing something they may have
>been personally and morally against, but they chose to be
>professional soldiers, and instead of displaying cowardice, they
>tried to do what was asked of them. [snip]
>
    escorting Bush was a piece of cake, but the brass figured 
    they had two of these special recon companies and ordered
    them to secure North Mogadishu --they did and were shipped 
    stateside; then Army's 10th Mountain got its ass kicked for
    some of the dumbest logistics planning, including the pickup 
    armor column getting lost, no water, and no night vision
    goggles...  then Uncle put its tail between its legs and
    came home.

    how do you think the all the families with sons, husbands,
    lovers, siblings, etc. felt with the spectacle of a dead
    (and initially unidentified pending notification of 
    kin) service man out there just doing his duty for
    his country is being dragged around the dirt streets of a
    shithole?  the boy's parents saw it on television before
    the Army could get a man out to their house to tell them 
    (yes, it is done in person).

    my _boy_ came home a changed _man_ after live ammo on live
    targets and no rubber bullets --and did what all returning  
    jarheads do after first blood --got married as soon as 
    possible.

Eric J. Tune wrote:

>Your "cheering" was a blatant slap in the face to anyone who has
>ever served in uniform. [snip]
>
    absolutely. misplaced criticism and a personal offense to me
    as well as all other servicemen.

    it is one thing to deplore the various wars, police actions,
    dirty tricks, etc. which the U.S. Presidents and spook shows
    are always using to defend "our" interests around the world 
    -it is another to criticize and ridicule the men who fight 
    and die. 

    I have no regrets for what I did, and did too well, but I
    sure as hell have regrets for whom it was done: total
    sleezeballs who have taken TR's maxim to mean: "speak loudly 
    and use a big stick" --it's only business, son.

>...with the right to our freedom of speech comes a
>responsibility to speak wisely..
>
    well, on this point, the thorn of what is "wisely" is 
    defined differently by everyone; freedom of speech is just
    that-- if we restrict Tim's, then we lose our own freedom.

        Tim gets to say his piece, 
        and we get to lump it      --or lump Tim.



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Charset: latin1
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 16:20:49 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Dealing with Spam, Part 2
In-Reply-To: <2358.199802181427@cronus>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980220001517.008a6300@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 02:27 PM 2/18/98 +0000, T.G.Griffiths@exeter.ac.uk wrote:

>Mark@unicorn.com makes a good point about MailGuard.
>If A and B both run MailGuard, and neither is on the
>other's allowed list, do you get an infinite bounce
>when A mails B or does the prog. get around it? I can
>think of a couple of ways, but what does MailGuard do?

The classic implementations of systems like that do
one of three things
0) Don't think, leading to infinite mailbounces
	(often caught in testing, since it's very bad.)
1) Prevent loops, but there's no way to communicate
2) Prevent loops, and recognize mail from other MailThingies,
	which makes it easy for Spammers to forge.

If you get fancy, you can probably work something like
	Receive message
	Send and record Alice-cookie ->
			<-- Reply with Alice-cookie and new Bob-cookie
	verify Alice-cookie and accept message
	Reply to Bob-cookie
			--> Verify Bob-cookie for future use

				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Eric Cordian 
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 14:39:55 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: The Political Education of Eric Tune
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980219204255.007c3680@pop3.lvcablemodem.com>
Message-ID: <199802200632.AAA01478@wire.insync.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



"Eric J. Tune"  writes:
 
> You ever served in the military?  Unless you've been under fire, you
> should shut the fuck up about shit you know nothing about nor could
> comprehend.
 
Similarly, only rapists should judge other rapists, only murderers
other murderers, only SS members other SS members, and only soldiers
other soldiers, only tyrants other tyrants, only gas-chamber operators
other gas-chamber operators.
 
Waaaaaaa!  The Baby-Napalmers of the world cry, no one "understands"
us.
 
> Listen up jerk, in case you didn't get any news during 1990, Iraq
> attacked Kuwait, and murdered thousands of Kuwaitis.
 
Iraq, mislead by the US into believing that there would be no
interference in its long-standing dispute with Kuwait, annexed it,
providing a pretense for the US to do some dirty work for the
Israelis, who did not want to tolerate an Arab military giant in their
region.
 
Kuwait provoked Iraq far more than places like Panama and Grenada have
provoked the United States, when US forces poured in to remove
existing governments, and install regimes sympathetic to Washington,
also killing thousands of uninvolved civilians.
 
Then again, perhaps you believed the touching "Baby Incubator" story
performed by the daughter of the Kuwaiti ambassador for an
appreciative Congress, who were unaware of who she was, or that she
was lying through her teeth.  Perhaps you were also unaware that
American public opinion during the Persian Gulf War was under the
control of a domestic public relations firm hired by the government of
Kuwait.
 
> "Don't start no shit and there won't be no shit"... ever heard that,
> asshole
 
America always manages to find some pretense to fight the wars it
decides to fight.  Sometimes there is a staged attack, and an
arrangement for allies to "invite" us into the conflict.  Other times,
some imagined threat, like the chance that an infant formula factory
"could be used" to produce material that "might be used" for chemical
or biological warfare. Most of us who have watched the antics of
America for more than a few decades see through the transparent
rhetoric employed in such situations to manufacture public consent.
 
> America would have never been involved if Iraq hadn't invaded Kuwait.
 
Well, at least another pretense would have had to be engineered to
implement the ZoG agenda.
 
> I was there, in a Bradley,
 
Next time, try under a Bradley.
 
> and we could have rolled all over Baghdad, especially after what the
> Iraqi bastards did to the Kuwaitis, but it wasn't done. Unfortunately
> Saddam Hussein stayed in power.  There will not be a shred of a
> chance for peace in that region until he is DEAD.
 
Right.  Let's kill the only secular leader of the only secular
government in a region full of religious fruitcakes that either
believe that God has awarded them other peoples land in the Bible, or
that lopping off body parts is the appropriate punishment for
criticizing nonsense.  I didn't see Sadaam Hussein issuing any death
sentences against Salmon Rushdie.
 
> I don't think air strikes are the answer to this, and I think Clinton
> is a moron for his present policy, War is the worst thing that man can
> do to other men, and there is no such thing as "the good fight"... war
> is hell. Period.  Until you have been in a war, you have no idea of
> what you are talking about.
 
It's interesting that the nation that engaged in continuous national
nonstop whining over the kids in the exploding federal building
daycare center commits such crimes at the drop of a hat in other
countries, merely to send some ambiguous foreign policy message.
 
> But if you think that Iraq was "more right" or better yet, "less
> wrong", you need a radical lobotomy, or perhaps you've already had
> one.
 
I would be more than happy to put Sadaam in charge of Israel, Iran,
Saudi Arabia, and the UAE.  You know, Iraq is a multicultural nation.
It even has a Jewish communuity.  That's why "secular" is always
better than a religious state stuffing organized superstition and
paternalistic Sky-God fairy tales down the throats of its subjects.
 
> Evidently, you again know nothing of what the Iraqis did to the
> Kuwaitis on their way in to Kuwait.  Get educated, shithead.
 
So the fact that Iraqis may have mistreated Kuwaitis justifies George
Bush's order to destroy "everything that moves" on the only path out
of the impending American invasion, including civilians fleeing for
their lives with children in carseats?  That's the kind of logic I'd
expect from a professional babykiller.
 
> You sound like nothing more than disillusioned, spoiled, pompous
> asshole when you presume to know what Americans "understand".  Your
> anarchistic ravings only mark you for the idiot you are.
 
If you'd get your commanding officers cock out of your ass, and stop
listening to the propaganda they feed you, then maybe you would be
worthy of further discussion.
 
You have the choice to not join an army that commits atrocities on
foreign soil, and to refuse orders which conflict with whatever
remaining conscience you have.  If you join, and you go over there,
and you kill people, then you are no better than any other murderer.
 
Middle Eastern affairs pose no threat to the Constitution of the
United States, which is, after all, the only thing you are empowered
to defend by shooting at others.
 
> To everyone else besides Cordian who reads this, my apologies, but
> for all it's failings, I still have pride in America... ...not for
> all the foreign policy bullshit or the way the government fucks us
> over, or starts wars, or sticks their collective nose in other
> countries business...but for the fact that as a whole people,
> Americans still keep trying, everyday, to be a better people. I'm
> proud of that.
 
America needs a low-level format.  Soon.

-- 
Eric Michael Cordian 0+
O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division
"Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"
 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 17:32:00 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Declan pro-cencorship (sorta) (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199802151803.MAA24764@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980220005636.007e6a00@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Unlike the rest of this discussion, Jim is mostly right here,
and in a way that neither censors anyone nor discourages them
from providing filtering services for people who want it.
However, Wabe is reinventing NoCeMs - which support multiple 
NoCeM issuers, and you can pick any one or more that you like
to kill off spam for you before you read it.  I'm not sure
how widely available implementations of NoCeM mailreaders are;
probably they're mostly Emacs macros.

On the other hand, while the Cypherpunks list gets lots of noise,
it doesn't get much spam (except when somebody's targeting it),
Filters that pick out the most interesting 10% are much more useful
than filters that discard the bottom 10%.
Attacking the list, while less suicidal than spamming alt.2600,
is still not very bright, given the potential risks :-)



>> Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 12:40:39 +0000
>> From: wabe 
>> Any reason Cyperpunks couldn't set up a distributed "spam innoculator?"
>> 
>> If I get spam, I'd send it to "spam@cypherpunks.com" and then spam would
>> send a fingerprint to all of our modified netscape messengers, which have been
>> programmed to erase any messages which match that fingerprint.
>> 
>> Then, if one person sees a spam message and declares it spam, no one
>> else has to see it. (If they get the message from spam@cypherpunks in time.)

At 12:02 PM 2/15/98 -0600, Jim Choate wrote:
>What makes you think you are suitable to decide what others want to see?
>How is this any different than any other form of censorship? This exact
>issue is why the CDR was setup with multiple nodes.


				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 06:16:47 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: PK & Re: Is spam really a problem?
Message-ID: <199802200602.BAA18990@panix2.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



   >   From sunder@brainlink.com Thu Feb 19 15:43:54 1998
   >   
   >   Information Security wrote:
   >   
   >   >    >   From sunder@brainlink.com Wed Feb 18 15:58:46 1998
   >   >    >
   >   >    >   Anonymous wrote:
   >   >    >   >
   >   >    >   > I see discussion of spam here and everywhere on
   >   >    >   > the net. But who finds it a *real* problem, and
   >   >    >   > why?
   >   > 
   >   > Why are you asking the cypherpunks list?
   >   
   >   I didn't. Anonymous did.  

Seth Breidbart (Mr. BI>20 == SPAM) insists it is a valid style
of attribution to give it once at the top.

My question was obviously directed at "Anonymous".

So you don't get confused again, I'll keep repeating the attributions:


   >   From sunder@brainlink.com Thu Feb 19 15:43:54 1998
   >
   >   Information Security wrote:
   >
   >   >    >   From sunder@brainlink.com Wed Feb 18 15:58:46 1998
   >   >    >
   >   >    >   There are nice technical solutions to this.  If sendmail
   >   >    >   didn't transport things unauthenticated it could be done,
   >   >    >   but at a cost in CPU cycles on mail servers:
   >   >    >
   >   >    >   Have every sendmail server use a PK scheme to talk to
   >   >    >   every other server and authenticate the connection.
   >   >    >   Have every sendmail server accept mail only from those
   >   >    >   whose key is verified.
   >   > 
   >   > Nonsense.
   >   > 
   >   > We (NANA) already know where spam comes from,
   >   > and when we complain about it, they are terminated.
   >   
   >   Until someone else gets a throw away $10 account and uses it to 
   >   spam, right?  By the time you track'em down, they already gave up
   >   that account.  All ISP's do is to delete the spamming account, which
   >   the spammer doesn't care about anyway.  So you achive nothing.

Talk about achieving nothing: what does server-to-server authentication
have to do with overcoming spam from throw-away accounts?

Hey, at least ISPs are making money from terminating accounts. ;-)



   >   From sunder@brainlink.com Thu Feb 19 15:43:54 1998
   >
   >   Further one can generate fake headers and you would not know exactly
   >   where it comes from, though you could have some idea since it would
   >   be one of many sites it was relayed from.  One could send messages
   >   from an ISP that doesn't mind spammers who won't help you track down
   >   the bitch that just slimed your machine, etc.

Jeez, take a breath between thoughts, will ya?

It is standard practice to trust only the last "Received" line.

What of it?

Again: what does server-to-server authentication have to do with
known unhelpful ISPs?



   >   From sunder@brainlink.com Thu Feb 19 15:43:54 1998
   >
   >   Information Security wrote:
   >    
   >   > PK authentication would change nothing.
   >   > 
   >   > Show a single spam with a forged IP address.
   >   
   >   IP addresses won't be forged, but one could send
   >   a mail with extra Recieved-By: headers, etc.

And how would throw-away accounts be affected by your proposed
massive change in SMTP protocol?





   >   From sunder@brainlink.com Thu Feb 19 15:43:54 1998
   >
   >   Information Security wrote:
   >    
   >   > PK authentication would only lead us down the
   >   > road of everyone being tattooed with barcodes
   >   > of our own making - and incredibly dumb idea.
   >   > 
   >   > It would be like requiring a smart card for Internet access.
   >   
   >   Bullshit.  PK auth with a central repository would be Big Brotherish.
   >   Having each user gen their own PK pair is what I suggested.

But these keys must be registered somewhere: whether it's at a centralized
site or distributed, *requiring* everyone to have a digital signature for
Internet access is twisting this elegant crypto-related technology: to
number each and every one of us, and is exactly what will make CDA legal,
because as soon as it's in place attributes such as "age" will be attached.

Required identity repositories are a bad idea.



   >   Relaying is a big problem.

What, you want _me_ to solve the UCE problem?

Okay.

I think if Brad (EFF Director) Templeton's whitelist system were
made available at the firewall/enterprise level, then widely
deployed, spam would be dead.

It's a handy little bot-reply mechanism that asks unknown authors
to verify they aren't sending UCE, else face a monetary penalty.

Replying correctly automatically causes the original email to go through.

Thus achieving the legal right to sue the spammer without
the legislation CAUCE is pushing.

The most important part of this design is that it requires
no control-freak changes to the Internet.

Don't suggest solutions that *require* digital signatures of everyone.

Sheesh.


This might work too:

Throttle email going through the ISP's mailserver.

Maybe 5/minute limit, flagging attempts to go faster to the admins.

As for direct PPP connectivity, upgrade router software to throttle.
(Port SMTP traffic)

Certain people, at the ISP's choice, would have a higher limit,
for mailing lists and such.
---guy

   Think.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Attila T. Hun" 
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 09:41:19 +0800
To: "Eric J. Tune" 
Subject: onward, Clinton soldiers / not so fast, Sen. Lott
Message-ID: <19980220.000200.attila@hun.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

    let's put the Saddam affair in perspective; I'm sure anyone 
    who is generally enlightened will agree that Bubba needs a
    nice little war to distract attention from his impending 
    doom from a wandering dickhead which Hillary obviously does 
    not, and has not, serviced adequately. 

    Eric Margolis, whom I have known for many years, is an
    American, and a Vietnam veteran, on the staff of the Toronto
    Sun, who went to Canada for editorial freedom. he calls it
    like he sees it, and the following article on American's
    failed MidEast foreign policy since WWII should be must
    reading for the war mongers who have never learned their 
    history and are about to repeat it.

    _________________________ NOTICE ______________________

    In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C.  Section 107, this
    material is distributed without profit to those who have
    expressed a prior interest in receiving the included
    information for research and educational purposes.
    _______________________________________________________

                         NOT SO FAST, SEN. LOTT!
                             by Eric Margolis
                             Toronto Sun Editorial Columnist
                             February 16, 1998

Senate majority leader Trent Lott and other senior Republicans
are demanding the US adopt a long-term strategy of covert action
and subversion to overthrow Saddam Hussein and other Mideast
troublemakers who disturb the Pax Americana.

Bombing Iraq is simply not enough, warned war-fevered
Republicans.  Saddam must be driven from power once and for all.
Many pro-Israel Conservatives demand the US Army march on
Baghdad.

If Senator Lott knew Mideast history better, he might not be so
eager for covert action, or hopeful Iraq's government could be
overthrown to America's profit.  He might even learn the United
States is not the solution to the Mideast's chronic instability
and tensions, but a major source.  A few examples:

*1947 

Washington is displeased by Syria's government.  A CIA-Army
`political action team' mounts a coup, employing a `CIA asset,'
Gen. Husni Za'im.  As senior CIA Mideast agent Miles Copeland
delightfully recalls, the Americans kept calling Za'im `our
boy,' or `Husni,' and ordering him about.  The day after Za'im's
coup, Copeland and the American agents went to inform the new
dictator whom he would appoint as ambassadors and cabinet
ministers.  When the Americans called him, `Husni,' Za'im
ordered them to `stand at attention,' and address him as
`Excellency.'  US-Syrian relations have been terrible ever
since.  Two subsequent, US-backed coups backfired.

*1952

The US helps engineer a coup against British puppet ruler of
Egypt, King Farouk.  CIA backs a young colonel, Gammal Abdel
Nasser.  But when the US later tries to pressure Nasser into
joining Washington's `new order' for the Mideast, the Baghdad
Pact, Nasser rebels and becomes America's enemy number one.  CIA
tries first to overthrow, than assassinate Nasser.  All attempts
fail.

*1953

Iran's popular, elected leader, Mohammed Mossadegh, attempts to
assert Iranian control of his nation's oil industry, whose
profits go to the US and Britain.  A CIA coup overthrows
Mossadegh, and puts `our boy' Reza Shah on the throne.  Iran's
US-trained secret police keep the Shah in power through a reign
of terror.  Islamic-nationalist revolution sweeps Iran in 1979,
ending US domination.

*1957/58

US and Britain thwart popular uprisings against King Hussein of
Jordan.

*1958 

Washington installs a client regime in Lebanon, which then
dutifully calls for US troops.  Beginning of Lebanon's 35 years
of instability and civil war.

*1958

Britain's Iraqi puppets, King Faisal and Nuri as- Said,
overthrown by the bloodthirsty Col. Kassim.  US uses Kassim to
attack Nasser.  Kassim murdered by Col. Aref in CIA-mounted
coup.  Aref's helicopter blown up.  A few more murders later,
CIA helps engineer into power a promising, young, Baath Party
enforcer, Saddam Hussein,

*1960

Anwar Sadat goes on CIA payroll.  After Nasser's death, CIA puts
Sadat into power in Egypt.  Corrupt and hated, Sadat is
assassinated to great popular joy..

*1969

The US elbows Britain out of Libya to gain control of its
high-grade oil.  CIA overthrows British puppet, King Idris, and
- - in one of its most brilliant moves - helps into power a young,
reformist colonel, Muammar Khadaffi.  When Khadaffi subsequently
trumpets the Arabs are being robbed of their oil by the west,
and raises prices, he goes unto America's hit list.

*1976

US, Iran and Israel secretly arm Iraq's Kurds and promote their
rebellion to destabilize Iraq.  Kurdish revolt plays major role
in igniting Iran-Iraq War 1980-1988 in which one million died.
US abandons Kurds, gets chummy with Baghdad.

*1980

Saddam Hussein becomes America's most important Mideast ally in
trying to crush Iran's Islamic revolution.  Urged on, armed and
financed by the US, Saddam invades Iran in 1980.  CIA and
Pentagon supply military advice and intelligence on Iran.  US
and British intelligence help Iraq obtain its chemical and
biological warfare capabilities.

*1983

US attempts to install a client, Christian/fascist regime in
Lebanon, drive out Syrian influence.  US Marines sent to Beirut,
under cover of `peace-keepers.'  They are bombed out of Lebanon
by Shia militants:  309 Americans die, including CIA's top
Mideast staff.

*1985

CIA's revenge backfires.  Lebanese CIA agents detonate truck
bomb in Beirut in a failed attempt to assassinate Shia leader,
Sheik Fadlallah.  Eighty-three civilians killed, 240 wounded.

*1986

US tries to assassinate Khadaffi by bombing his residence in
Tripoli.  One baby daughter killed, one injured.  He escapes.
Downing of Pan Am and French UTA flights may be revenge for this
failed hit.  Three other attempt to assassinate Khadaffi, using
CIA-organized Libyan exiles, fail.

*1996

The Bay of Camels - CIA's biggest flop since Cuba.  Urged on
by President Clinton, CIA mounts an elaborate coup against
Saddam Hussein.  Iraqi exiles, armed and trained by CIA, to
march on Baghdad from US/British ruled Kurdistan.  CIA organizes
a cabal of generals to assassinate Saddam.  Public places in
Baghdad are bombed, many civilians killed, in order to
`destabilize' Iraq (this while the US is busy denouncing
terrorism).  But Saddam's spies have infiltrated the plot.  The
whole operation collapses.  CIA's agent network in Iraq is
rolled up.  Many Kurds back Saddam, turn on pro-US Kurds.  CIA
agents in Kurdistan run for their lives, abandoning allies and
tons of documents.  Saddam is strengthened.  CIA's inept
Director, John Deutch, fired for this Mother of All Fiascos.  .

Republicans now urge more of the above to keep the Mideast
calm. You certainly can't argue with success.

copyright   eric margolis   1998



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Comment: No safety this side of the grave. Never was; never will be

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 17:34:39 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980220010711.008ae250@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 05:03 PM 2/15/98 -0600, Jim Choate wrote:
>Then you are saying that the only way to send email to yourself, for
>example, is to contact you prior to the transmission and obtain your
>permission to send the traffic?

That's fine - people who take this approach may get less mail
from interesting people as well as getting less mail from spammers.
It's easy to find mail forwarding systems that don't cost much
and will filter out well-known spam, either for free or for a small fee.
Pobox.com offers this, and I think the iname.com systems do also;
I don't know about hotmail and other web-based mailreaders.

>Why should the fact that I have a mailbox on my front porch while you use a
>mailbox (that you pay extra for) at the post office matter to my ability to
>send you a letter in the mail? Should I call you on the phone and ask your
>permission before sending it? Should I not get some mechanism to contact
>you before contacting you using the phone? No ,I assume because local calls
>are flat rate and therefore don't increase your out of pocket expense? Then
>perhaps the problem is you're choice of payment for net connections? Why
>does your choice of personal expense effect my ability to send traffic?

Most of us have flat-rate email, and the important cost is 
our attention span, not the transmission cost.  For other people,
that's not true, and sending them junk mail _is_ ripping them off
financially as well as ripping off their time and concentration.

As far as "how do you know something is bulk mail"?  The sender knows,
and the sender is the one being rude to thousands of receivers
if it is bulk mail.

>If we accept the free-market view then we should expect all net connections
>to be flat rate since this provides the consumer, the final arbiter in
>free-market theory, the most bang for the buck.

This does not apply in countries that still have
Government-granted Monopoly Postal/Telephone/Telegraph companies.
It also doesn't apply in places where the Telephone Company
decides to charge for connect time by the minute rather than
flat rate - even if your internet provider is flat rate,
you may be paying 1-5 cents/minute - mildly annoying on a 
US salary, and much more so on a Polish salary.

And in a free market, you'd expect a mix of options,
since different people have different net connection needs,
financial constraints, and communications costs.
My main ISP offers an 800 number for about 10 cents/minute,
and I sometimes use it when I'm on the road at hotels with
stupider-than-usual telephone systems.

				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 17:31:38 +0800
To: "Robert A. Costner" 
Subject: Re: Declan pro-cencorship (sorta) (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199802180120.TAA06603@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980220011234.0089a100@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Unfortunately, there's a conflict between real definitions of spam
(you knew it when you sent it, and the recipients knew it too)
and the real-world problems encountered with blocking/canceling spam,
which tends to result in either censorship or under-blocking.
Number of recipients _isn't_ the right criterion at all -
but it's objective enough to agree on, and usually makes a
clear enough boundary between most spammers and most non-spammers.
Rigidly defining numerical limits can also have serious problems,
because there are good messages that get excluded.

The more important number is the number of people deciding
which things are and are not spam - "More than 1" is best,
while "There can be only one" is censorship, either deliberate
or as a side-effect.

At 10:52 PM 2/17/98 -0500, Robert A. Costner wrote:
>At 07:20 PM 2/17/98 -0600, Jim Choate wrote:
>>So, we actualy do agree that the number of recipients is irrelevant.
>
>When it comes to spam, the ONLY thing that is relevant is the number of
>recipients, and whether these recipients have offered some form of implicit
>or explicit permission to receive the email.  
...
>Any attempt whatsoever to define spam in terms of content and how liked or
>not liked the message is, interferes with traditional 1st amendment
>definitions of speech, if codified in law or promulgated through (gov't)
>rules.  Ignoring first amendment concerns, any attempt to define spam in
>terms of anything other than numbers causes a severe curtailing of the true
>communication and business purposes of the internet.  


				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 17:33:29 +0800
To: Fisher Mark 
Subject: RE: financial incentives for hashcash?
In-Reply-To: <83C932393B88D111AED30000F84104A70A1F27@indyexch_fddi.indy.tce.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980220012637.008994c0@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 12:13 PM 2/17/98 -0500, Fisher Mark wrote:
>I am curious -- does anyone have any statistics on how much spam (what
>percentage) is done via SMTP relay?  To me, using the SMTP service of
>someone/something you don't know to send 1000's/10,000's/more of email
>messages seems pretty unfriendly at best.  

Yes, it's one of the major techniques used by spammers;
the other big one is disposable accounts.
maps.vix.com has information about the Realtime Blackhole List
system, which lets you configure your sendmail system to reject
incoming mail from any system that permits relays,
and provides lots of information about setting your system
not to do relays.  They're a bit inflexible,
but if you're up to rolling your own sendmail.cf code,
you can fix that.
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 06:11:38 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re:  Five industry giants propose encryption plan to protect Hollywood
Message-ID: <199802200635.BAA20101@panix2.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



   >   Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 11:13:50 -0800 (PST)
   >   From: William Knowles 
   >   
   >   BURBANK, Calif. (February 19, 1998 09:06 a.m. EST
   >   http://www.nando.net) -- Five computer and electronics industry giants
   >   have agreed on a strategy to prevent people from illegally copying
   >   digital movies and music, the Los Angeles Times reported Thursday.
   >    
   >   According to the proposal, high-definition TV sets, personal
   >   computers, digital video disc players, digital video cassette
   >   recorders and set-top boxes would be equipped with technology that
   >   requires a code before a copyrighted piece of work can be transferred
   >   from one device to another.
   >    
   >   It would ensure that someone who watches or listens to digital movies
   >   or music over satellite services, cable networks and the Internet
   >   won't be able to make copies without permission.
   >    
   >   The encryption technique scrambles the copyrighted material in one
   >   device so it cannot be unscrambled by another device without the
   >   correct software key.

It's unscrambled when it is listened to...what are they thinking?
---guy

   Escpecially regarding computers, this won't work.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 16:40:14 +0800
To: Tim May 
Subject: Re: Letting Israel Twist Slowly in the Desert Wind
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199802200908.EAA00130@users.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In , on 02/19/98 
   at 11:23 PM, Tim May  said:

>So? The land taken from a Palestinian farmer and given to a Polish Jew,
>for example, remains his, morally. That a neighboring country has many
>persons similar to him does not reduce his loss.

Well before the Israel war of Independence no one was kicked off their
farmland. There was a native population of Jews that lived there and own
their own land. Those who migrated there durring the 1st half of the
century *bought* the land that they lived on and also actively created new
land that was fallow. Much of the current farmland in Israel was not
stolen from the Arabs but came from swamps that were drained and deserts
that were irrigated (much of Israel was either swamp or desert before the
Jewish Immigration started).

The plight of the plaistinians after 1945 is known as the "spoils of war"
and since the palestinians were the *aggressor* I have no simpathy for
them (ya pay your money ya take your chances).

 It is really no surprise that so few Americans have any
understanding of the History or Politics of the region.

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html                        
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: OS/2: Logic, not magic.

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Attila T. Hun" 
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 10:55:08 +0800
To: rantproc 
Subject: Re: putting down the US military
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <19980220.013910.attila@hun.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

on or about 980219:1723, in , 
    Tim May  was purported to have 
    expostulated to perpetuate an opinion:

>At 4:07 PM -0800 2/19/98, Attila T. Hun wrote:

>>    absolutely. misplaced criticism and a personal offense to me
>>    as well as all other servicemen.

at 980219:1723, Tim May wrote:

>"Personal offense"?  Gee, I'm crushed.  (Attila, you wrote such
>a nice rant about fascist Amerika...then decided to be
>"offended" when your predictable hot button was pressed:  any
>criticism of the military and any cheering of its defeats.  So
>predictable.)
>
    No, Tim, not predictable --your cheers are misplaced.

    Amerika is fascist at best; we do not have the government
    my ancestors, and probably yours, fought to create 222 years
    ago. today's Federal Hamiltonian style central government 
    does not qualify as a republic, at best it is a plutocracy.

    No, my objection is _where_ you place your cheers. we need
    to bring down the fascists, not kill our fighting men, most
    of whom still believe in America the Beautiful, not the 
    cesspool you and I and the rest know it has become. we 
    almost had a military arrest of Clinton for treason in his
    first term, but a number of key generals and admirals were
    killed.

    turn your cheers at American defeats into jears to the heart
    of the problem in Washington.

    I'm not advocating a sapper, but somebody better wake the 
    serfs.

>Eggs have to be broken to make omelettes

    yes, but there is an unlimited supply of eggs in the minds
    of the politicians; they'll go on until they are gone, then
    shrug their shoulders and say: "we tried...."

    if the US suffers some really significant defeat, that will
    be the excuse for martial law and we will see more than the
    Admirality flag flying in every U.S. courtroom (courtesy of 
    FDR and 08 Mar 33). 

    If we run out of eggs, we will be overrun; and I may post
    a significant historical document, overlooked by all but a
    few, on that point.

    Amerika is fast heading towards moral bankruptcy because
    "it feels good" --just like the dog who licks his balls 
    because he can.

> aircraft carriers have to be sunk
>(my fondest wish for Operation Wag the Dog), 

    5,000 men to teach a whoring asshole like Clinton what?

    if Saddam, or friends, sinks a carrier, the asshole will
    nuke the middle east while every Joe Couch Potato screams 
    for blood --then what?
 
>War is hell.  Nothing new there.

    never was and never will be. and war should be avoided at
    all costs. 

    if the US was a good friend overseas instead of the greedy
    bastards and manipulators they have been most of this entire
    century, every country in the world would not hate the U.S. 
    --except maybe the Brits. Amerika has destabilized close to 
    90% of the world governments at one point of another in this
    century, including the Labour government preceding Thatcher.

    check the list of foreign policy failures in the mideast
    which I just posted.  the American fools put every one of
    the now anti-US bastards in power: Syria, Iraq, Libya,
    Jordon, and previously Iran, Egypt, and Lebanon. Britain
    kicked the Palestinians off the land they farmed since the
    diaspora --almost 2,000 years, and now the U.S props up both
    Israel and the PLO (half-heartedly, which is more than the
    rest of the Arabs do for Arafat, other than noise). The most
    stupid action after world war 2 was to permit Britain to
    establish Israel --only exceeded by our stupidity of
    continuing to support a pig like Bibbi.

    Amerika has made so many enemies overseas with its Pax 
    Americana policies that we do not have enough soldiers to
    be the world's policemen --and we should never have been
    in that position in the first place, except Amerika has
    always been the home of the free --the freedom to rape,
    pillage, and burn your fellow man, particularly if they
    are someplace else.

>To _not_ want the U.S. to be taught a lesson just because it
>means some soldiers must die as part of the lesson (else there
>is no lesson, of course) is to let the USG do anything it wants.
>
    no, the issue is to rectify the situation at the root: the
    cesspool. everyone one of us, regardless of our beliefs, is
    responsible for the meglomaniacs in our government. if those
    of us with supposed intelligence can not get Joe Couch 
    Potato off his ass --whose fault is it?  Clinton will get 
    them off their collective asses if an aircraft carrier goes 
    down --even if he scuttles it.

>Get used to it.  When Johhnie or Hans or Sergei goes to war, 
>he may die.  And perhaps because of Cypherpunks technologies. 
>All part of the scheme of things.
>
    doesn't need to be... 

    I am too well aware of what I have contributed first in
    black ops and then in technology until I got smart enough
    20+ years ago to refuse any direct military work. even so,
    it does not help withholding (but it feels good); high-tech 
    only kills more with less effort.

>        Tim gets to say his piece,
>>        and we get to lump it      --or lump Tim.
>
>Another empty threat from Attila?
>
    no, Tim, not at all, just a cheap pun!  someday maybe I'll 
    even be creative enough to coin a new "Dew Drop Inn"

    I'll defend to the death your right to say whatever you 
    wish; obviously, I also reserve the right to bitch! 


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 18:09:10 +0800
To: Bill Stewart 
Subject: Re: Declan pro-cencorship (sorta) (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980220011234.0089a100@popd.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <199802201034.FAA00842@users.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In <3.0.5.32.19980220011234.0089a100@popd.ix.netcom.com>, on 02/20/98 
   at 01:12 AM, Bill Stewart  said:

>The more important number is the number of people deciding
>which things are and are not spam - "More than 1" is best,
>while "There can be only one" is censorship, either deliberate or as a
>side-effect.

The biggest problem I see with the various spam "solutions" are the
side-effects which universally are more repugnant than the original
"problem".

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html                        
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: OS/2: Logic, not magic.

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 18:17:29 +0800
To: "Paul Bradley" 
Subject: Re: No Real Debate Yet on the War
In-Reply-To: <89B3250098@ou20.csm.port.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <199802201043.FAA00924@users.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In <89B3250098@ou20.csm.port.ac.uk>, on 02/20/98 
   at 09:27 AM, "Paul Bradley"  said:

>The more American, British, Australian, French etc. troops that die  in
>the Gulf War II (tm), the more the western world will realise that  war
>involves losses and that we cannot go on policing the world.  

Well if the US was to really take the moral HighGround on this they would
be bombing France and Germany for supplying them with CBW supplies for
years.

Does anyone have a French body count from when Israel blew up the breader
reactor they were building in Iraq back in 1980? (I am sure it was far too
small).

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html                        
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: Bugs come in through open Windows.

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 11:45:11 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Is spam really a problem?
In-Reply-To: <199802181733.SAA26244@basement.replay.com>
Message-ID: <199802200338.EAA13749@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Tim wrote to Ray:
> You've mentioned that spam is theft. 

Spam is plainly not theft.  Littering or pollution is a better analogy.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Attila T. Hun" 
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 12:57:22 +0800
To: Tim May 
Subject: Re: PLO censoring pro-Iraqi sentiments
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <19980220.042154.attila@hun.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

on or about 980219:2004, in , 
    Tim May  was purported to have 
    expostulated to perpetuate an opinion:

    [snip the dead issues on gloating...]

>And as for the thread name here, "PLO censoring pro-Iraqi sentiments,
>it's reprehensible that the U.S. is pushing a "peace process" which
>condones this kind of censorship. Better to just let the Arabs fight the
>Jews, without any funding from U.S. slave-taxpayer-units. If the Arabs
>kill all the Jews I'll say it was a really, really stupid ideas for a
>bunch of Jews from Poland and Germany and Russia to go kick out a bunch
>of "sand niggers" and "ragheads" and not expect retribution to someday
>arrive.
>
    they figure Britain owes Israel to them to atone for Brit   
    guilt for refusing to let them leave Germany for Palestine
    before Hitler reduced the number available to make the trip.

    and since Britain cant go it by themselves anymore, and the
    US has over 50% of the Zionists in the world --Russia being
    in second place-- the 10% of the Zionists in Palestine wag
    the US dog to protect them from "the barbarian Arabs" 
    (their attitude, not mine).

    the argument that Israel is the only true friend to the US
    in the Middle East is pure bullshit; with friends like 
    Israel who take our technology and either steal it directly 
    or reverse engineer it and sell it to China, Iran, South
    Africa who sells to China, etc. --who needs enemies. 

    the Israeli governments have double crossed U.S. interests 
    at most every point --they are a liability. if the U.S. had
    not acquiesced, under pressure of U.S. Zionist and general 
    WWII guilt, to Britain's division of Palestine, the Middle
    East would not be the problem it is --the Arabs plus the 
    Iranians (Farsi, not Arabs) would never have been able to 
    find a common unifying factor --and hate the US accordingly
    for its virtually unquestioning support of Israel.

    the U.S. should withdraw support from both sides of divided
    Palestine and let nature take its course. save the U.S. $5 
    billion dollars in acknowledged aid to Israel every year
    plus whatever amount is hidden in the black budgets, etc.
    plus the additional billions they raise from the guilt 
    ridden American Zionists.

    if there were no Israel, maybe the U.S. Zionists would 
    become Americans rather than Zionists first and residents of
    the U.S. second. if the really rabid ones wont shut up, give
    them an AR16, 200 rounds, and a ticket...

>Oh, and spare me the typical Zionist rhetoric about how "YHWH" or
>Whatever It's Damned Name Is "promised" this land to the Jews, despite
>their Polish or Russian or Ukrainian residency and genetics for thousands
>of years.

    me too...

>Fucking religious fruitcakes.

    you bet, but more than that, it's a class of discordant 
    freeloaders whose interests supersede those of the hand 
    that feeds and protect them.


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: eristic@gryzmak.lodz.pdi.net (Marek Jedlinski)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 14:41:34 +0800
To: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov)
Subject: Re: Dealing with Spam, Part 1
In-Reply-To: <199802190557.XAA00934@manifold.algebra.com>
Message-ID: <34ee0fca.11042019@gryzmak.lodz.pdi.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Igor Chudov @ home wrote:

>To add to this, the spam blocking technology is widely available and can be
>used by anyone with half brain. 

So? I use filtering, too (procmail) with relatively good results as far as
it goes, but *so what*? Filtering is the last-stance defense. I should not
have to filter out spam.

I addressed the various weak sides of filters at length previously, so I
won't repeat that. Digest: filtering is heuristic, error prone, consumes
the maintainer's time and consumes machine resources (think of all the perl
scripts people are beefing up their procmail filters with). I have to
connect to my ISP to modify/upload filters - this itself costs me time and
money too.


Here's why I say I should not *have to* filter:

We pay for advertising when we purchase the advertised products. Sometimes,
as in the case of software, the price increase due to advertising costs is
very high. This is a disgrace, BUT it is not theft.

We do NOT pay for advertising if we do not choose to purchase the product.
If you don't but Coke, you don't pay for Coke's advertising. If you don't
use buses, you do not chip into the transport company's coffer, either.
This is generally regarded as "fair".

With spam, it's different. I am forced to pay for spammers' ad campaigns
(pay, that is, in the costs of greater phone bills and expended time) even
though I have never and will never purchase anything advertised by spam.
Can you see the difference? *This* is why spam is THEFT. Normally,
advertisers get your money only when you buy the product, so you do get
something in return. Spammers take money from you whether or not you want
their products - and hey, they take money from you even if you explicitly
tell them to stop (unworkable fake "remove" lists sold to other spammers,
filter bocks bypassed by forged headers, etc).


>My spam filters make me spend no more than 
>a minute or so a day on quickly reviewing and deleting spams.

A minute. Will it still be a minute when you get a thousand spams per day?
Ten thousand? And why not, seeing how many *million* businesses there are
that might one day decide to spam. It costs them next to nothing.

>I do it by saving all messages that are likely to be spam to a separate
>folder. A quick browse through subject lines of these messages is enough
>to delete them really quickly.

So you're just playing into the hands of the spammers, who tell you to
"just hit delete". You are thus helping them, by allowing them to continue
unchallenged. It's your choice, of course, but IMO it's nothing to be proud
of.

>In the future such spam detection is going to become a lot harder. 

It already is. But you are right, it *is* going to get harder still,
because spammers are constantly getting better at bypassing filter blocks.
This invalidates the notion that filtering is somehow an "adequate"
solution.

>Perhaps
>a system where the first time sender pays a refundable digital fee to
>the reader will become necessary.

In vaguely distant future, perhaps. Currently this kind of scheme is
plainly *impossible* to implement, because (a) e-cash is still not cheap
enough (i.e. it doesn't make financial sense to transfer sub-dollar
amounts); (b) because there's no widely accepted standard for e-cash
transfers; (c) whether e-cash or not, you could only implement such a
pay-per-message scheme within the US, perhaps, and within several
West-European countries. In other places, the banking systems in place are
too behind-the-curve to allow this to work. Me - for instance - I have no
cheap *and* fast way of transferring foreign currency abroad (no, not even
with a regular VISA that I have). I'll skip the irrelevant details, but I
can explain it at length to anyone interested - but basically most banks in
Poland want you to have a separate dollar account for such transfers, with
a sum like $10.000 *frozen* in the account to use VISA internationally.
That's far more than I can afford, and I'm in the mid-range earnings
bracket. (Yes, this also means I can't order from online stores such as
amazon.com et al.)


.marek

-- 
Invalid thought. Close all mental processes and restart body.
Largactil Café http://www.lodz.pdi.net/~eristic/index.html
Send message with GET PGP_KEY in subject for PGP public key.
Hail Eris. *plonk* trolls. Fight spam: http://www.cauce.org/





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Brad 
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 18:52:28 +0800
To: Tim May 
Subject: Re: Letting Israel Twist Slowly in the Desert Wind
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



It's interesting that there has been much effort recently to return
property stolen in the '30s and '40s by Nazis and communists to the
descendents of the original owners.  For example a Romanian friend
recently got his family farm back.  And then there is the "Swiss/Nazi 
gold" thing.  But, so far, I haven't heard many calls for refunds and
property returns in the middle east.

bd

On Thu, 19 Feb 1998, it was written:

>[...]
> 
> >Now some may wish to extend the lame argument that the British didn't have
> >the right to carve up the middle east nor did the Jews have the right to
> >immegrate to Israel. Well the simple fact of the matter is that *every*
> >country in exsistance today has been created by one group of people
> >conquering another. All the countries of North *and* South America were
> >formed that way. The empires of the Incas and Aztecs were formed the same
> >way. The various tribes of North America gaind control of their "huntting
> >grounds" by taking them away from those that were there before.
> 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Attila T. Hun" 
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 14:17:49 +0800
To: "William H. Geiger III" 
Subject: Re: PLO censoring pro-Iraqi sentiments
In-Reply-To: <199802200612.BAA31481@users.invweb.net>
Message-ID: <19980220.055727.attila@hun.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

on or about 980219:2334, in <199802200612.BAA31481@users.invweb.net>, 
    "William H. Geiger III"  was purported to have 
    expostulated to perpetuate an opinion:

    [chop 80% of the various rantings]

> Tune said:

>>You sound like nothing more than disillusioned, spoiled, pompous asshole
>>when you presume to know what Americans "understand".  Your anarchistic
>>ravings only mark you for the idiot you are.

>>To everyone else besides Cordian who reads this, my apologies, but for
>>all it's failings, I still have pride in America... ...not for all the
>>foreign policy bullshit or the way the government fucks us over, or
>>starts wars, or sticks their collective nose in other countries
>>business...but for the fact that as a whole people, Americans still keep
>>trying, everyday, to be a better people. I'm proud of that.

>Wow! I haven't seen this kind of reactionary temper-tantrum since the
>last 4th of July BBQ down at the VFW.

    really? you start yours with a prayer followed by the statement:

        OK, fellas, friendly game; all guns on the table...

>So how long were you in?? Usally this type of "God save the King"
>mentality wears off after a boot has been in the field for a few months.
>For the more febal minded it lasts longer but they usally never make it
>above Cpl. or 1st Lt.

    very true, for those who have never been deployed into the
    face of the beast. 

    those who have been in combat have an entirely different
    attitude.     

    the peacetime Army is a often a goldbrickers union for lack
    of something better to do. and it is definitely not true in
    the Corps with the exception of the few who take the two
    year stint and four years active reserve and are somewhat
    disillusioned by the inactivity as they never hit the floats
    or are otherwise deployed.


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3i
Charset: latin1
Comment: No safety this side of the grave. Never was; never will be

iQBVAwUBNO0eL7R8UA6T6u61AQFotgH/c8XYz0psrJvjc5ibaf8PnY9aB1Y0hqX7
m11PvGFKKxtiRtDDOqv6zH0og68g1zpfJLcDBoI/GaFtOEctIfsEGg==
=cGsI
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 06:20:12 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: about AES
Message-ID: <199802200515.GAA26034@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




What is the encryption method that thinks to become
Advanced Encryption Standard (AES)? 
        





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 13:50:54 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: PLO censoring pro-Iraqi sentiments
Message-ID: <199802200542.GAA29531@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Eric J. Tune wrote:

> You know Tim, I respect most of what you write, and I respect you in that
> you have your own free will and opinions and the right to express them, but
> what you have forgotten in your anarchistic ravings is that PEOPLE DIED IN
> SOMALIA, including a personal friend of mine.  They were all somebody's
> son, brother, and friend.  These soldiers went where they were ordered to
> go, as befits a soldier, and tried to do the job they were given and
> accomplish the mission, and for that EVERY ONE OF THEM DESERVES   Y O U R
> RESPECT.  I am quite sure the vast majority of them thought it was patently
> stupid to go to Somalia in the first place, but a soldier follows orders,
> legal ones, and tries to get the job done regardless of personal feelings.


There is honor in fighting for something you believe in, taking a risk with
the belief that your actions may make things better.  What were those
soldiers in Somalia fighting for?

Yes, we know those people died in Somalia.  What did they die for?

Oh, just following orders... where have I heard that before...





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Brad 
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 20:55:39 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Anthrax--The Horsemen are Riding
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





Watching the tube:

Andrea Greenspan just did the standard scare piece about the useful
idiots, Larry Wayne Harris & Co.  Then Kallstrom (thought he was retired!)
appeared, to warn vaguely of the need for more wiretaps and less
encryption.

One thing you can say for these guys:  they're predictable.

bd





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 21:57:48 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Feb. 22 column - privacy, long version
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Resent-Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 21:28:11 -0700
X-Sender: vin@dali.lvrj.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 20:25:09 -0800
To: cathy@engr.colostate.edu
From: Vin_Suprynowicz@lvrj.com (Vin Suprynowicz)
Subject: Feb. 22 column - privacy, long version
Resent-From: vinsends@ezlink.com
X-Mailing-List:  archive/latest/440
X-Loop: vinsends@ezlink.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vinsends-request@ezlink.com


    FROM MOUNTAIN MEDIA
    EDITORS NOTE: This is the longer version of "privacy," at 2,900 words.
A shorter,          2,400-word version also moves.
    A VERSION of this essay originally appeared in "Las Vegas" magazine.
    FOR EMBARGOED RELEASE DATED FEB. 22, 1998
    THE LIBERTARIAN, By Vin Suprynowicz
    Big Brother wants your number

    The New York Times is generally in editorial favor of any government
intervention you can name. Most would agree it is the furthest thing from a
marketplace of paranoid, feds-are-out-to-get-us conspiracy theories.

  Even Times columnist William Safire is hardly a true Libertarian -- Mr.
Safire still believes "No sensible passenger minds the frisking for bombs
at airports."

  (I guess I'm not very sensible; it seems to me anyone who has ever put
any real effort into getting around such Fred-and-Ethel security screens
has succeeded, while the REAL target of all the sniffing and scanning
appears to be the now-prohibited  transport of tax-free agricultural
extracts and untaxed currency.)

  Anyway, more significant than what Mr. Safire actually wrote for
publication on Jan. 8, 1998, is where it was published: America's
pro-government paper of record, The New York Times.

  Mr. Safire warned, in part:


  "WASHINGTON -- Your right to privacy has been stripped away. You cannot
walk into your bank, or apply for a job, or access your personal computer,
without undergoing the scrutiny of strangers. You cannot use a credit card
to buy clothes to cover your body without baring your soul. Big Brother is
watching as never before.

  "Encouraged by an act of Congress, Texas and California now demand
thumbprints of applicants for drivers' licenses -- treating all drivers as
potential criminals.

  "Using a phony excuse about airplane security, airlines now demand
identification like those licenses to make sure passengers don't exchange
tickets to beat the company's rate-cutting promotions.

  "In the much-applauded pursuit of deadbeat dads, the Feds now demand that
all employers inform the government of every new hire, thereby building a
data base of who is working for whom that would be the envy of the KGB. ...

  "Hooked on easy borrowing, consumers turn to plastic for their purchases,
making records and sending electronic signals to telemarketers who track
them down at home. ...

  "Enough.

  "Fear of crime and terrorism has caused us to let down our guard against
excessive intrusion into the lives of the law-abiding. ... But doesn't this
creeping confluence of government snooping, commercial tracking and
cultural tolerance of eavesdropping threaten each individual American's
personal freedom? And isn't it time to reverse that terrible trend toward
national nakedness before it replaces privacy as an American value? ..."


  Unfortunately, Mr. Safire stopped short, in that January column, of
calling for an end to government "ID cards" of any sort, an end to
mis-labeled "airport security" checkpoints, an end to the very "War on
Drugs" under which most of these new interventions have been justified.

  He also ran the risk of diverting attention from the government as the
major culprit here, by treating as equally culpable the kind of folks who
collate data from warranty cards -- hardly the folks who have the right to
raid your home and throw you in jail if they don't like what they find.

  (On my list of things that concern me, my supermarket knowing what brand
of catfood I prefer still ranks somewhat below armed government agents
tracking where I travel, and how much cash I carry.)

  Finally, Mr. Safire suggest that we "Pay cash," which is harder to track.

  That advice might be fine, if the very pattern of abuses Mr. Safire
catalogs wasn't moving us rapidly toward the ballyhooed  "cashless
society."

  Already, the old $500 and $1,000 bills are nowhere to be found, and those
trying to withdraw more than $5,000 from their own savings accounts to buy
a used car or other large-ticket item find themselves being grilled by
their own government-regulated bankers -- amateur surrogates for the DEA
and IRS -- like so many money-laundering drug-dealers.


A rogue candidate

  That so-called "cashless society" is frequently on the mind of Aaron
Russo, former producer of such Hollywood films as "Trading Places" and "The
Rose," now running an iconoclastic long-shot 1998 GOP primary campaign
against Kenny Guinn -- former head warden of the Las Vegas government
schools and hand-picked anointee of the casino bosses -- for the
governorship of Nevada.

  Russo is campaigning on such populist issues as eliminating state
privilege taxes (so that car registration costs in Nevada would be limited
to "$35 and not one penny more" -- rather than surging upwards based on
blue-book value) and his vow to sue the federal government to fight the
taxation of Nevadans' "estimated" tips as income.

  But Russo has also includes in his platform opposition to such federal
steps as the wiring of all telephones for tapping (already authorized under
House Resolution 4922, which passed on Jan. 25, 1994), and the
aforementioned national law requiring all states to issue drivers' licenses
with thumbprints or other personalized "biometric" ID tags to serve as a
"national ID cards."

  Those stances have gained Russo the sobriquet of a "federal paranoiac"
from one well-established Nevada political columnist, who coincidentally
does not appear to have ever met a new tax he didn't think those in power
should have the "courage" to enact.

  "In my view, the wiretaps are authorized under a federal regulation, and
they cannot impose any federal regulations on any of the states," said
Russo, in between passing out cards to well-wishers during Sunday lunch at
the Celebrity Deli, on Flamingo near Maryland, as we took a break from an
afternoon watching the NFL playoff games ... liberally sprinkled with
$150,000 in TV campaign ads which Russo had bought in the one-week New
Year's period, just to put the opposition on notice that he's in the game.

  "The governor has the authority to go to the Supreme Court, and the
Supreme Court has to hear the case. You have something to stand on. A
senator or congressman needs other people to work with him. But in a
dispute between the feds and a state, the Supreme Court has the only
jurisdiction," says Russo, in the Brooklyn accent he has never shed. "So we
wouldn't have to go through the 9th District (Court of Appeals), like
anyone else. A governor can stop federal agents from coming into his state
to enforce these things; they need the permission of the individual county
sheriffs to try and enforce these laws within the state."

  I pointed out to Russo that skeptics will claim HR 4922 creates no actual
new wiretaps; it merely puts phone companies and others on notice that they
must wire their systems in such a way that federal agents can come in and
tap lines, if necessary, "pursuant to a court order or other lawful
authorization."

  "Then why, if it's only by court order the way it should be, does it say,
'or other lawful authorization'?" Russo asks, between bites of the corned
beef and pastrami. "That means any cop can request it," the same way your
bank account can now be frozen and levied with a mere letter from an IRS
agent -- no court order required.

  "Uri Dowbenko wrote a piece on this for the National Review; call him up."

  Russo obligingly supplied a copy of the federal law, which requires the
attorney general to tell congress how many "communication interceptions,
pen registers, and trap and trace devices" federal agents expect to need in
the next four years. A dutiful subordinate of Attorney General Janet Reno,
FBI Director "Louis Freeh has told Congress he needs money to tap 1.5
million phones simultaneously," Russo says.

  "The worst part of the federal ID card is not the card itself but what's
going to come out of it," candidate Russo adds, segueing without drawing a
breath into the other federal intervention that gets his goat. "The ID card
and the debit card merging; getting rid of cash. Everything will be on the
card. Every time you go buy something, they'll know what books you read,
what tapes you rent.

  "They'll debit your Social Security tax payments automatically. You'll
have no more cash. Cash will be gone; it will be illegal; you won't be able
to hide any more money in your mattress. And as Ross Perot pointed out, the
current Clinton budget will eventually mean an 82 percent tax rate" to
cover expanding welfare programs.

  "If they freeze your card, you can't buy food; you can't pay a lawyer. If
they can assume how much money a waitress should make in tips, and tax that
amount, then they can assume how much you make, and tax the amount they
assume you should be making. And at that point you're a slave. You are a
slave."


Digital fingerprinting

  Central in organizing resistance to the national ID card to which Russo
refers is the Coalition to Repeal the Fingerprint Law, at 5446 Peachtree
Industrial Boulevard, Suite 133, Atlanta, GA 30341, telephone 404-250-8105.

  The group's web site is at http://www.atlantainfoguide/repeal/.

  Posted there is an article by Cyndee Parker - self-described Georgia
"housewife turned activist, because no one else was doing anything about
it" - which begins: "In September of 1996, President Clinton signed into
law the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of
1996. Buried at approximately page 650 of the new National Defense Bill,
also known as Public Law 104-208, Part B, Title IV, the American public was
given a national ID card. With no fanfare, no publicity and no scrutiny,
the bill easily avoided the watchful eyes of even its most aggressive
opponents. ...

  "In Section 401-403, pilot programs have been initiated by the U.S.
Attorney General, one of which is the 'Machine Readable Document Pilot
Program.' In this particular program, employers would have to 'procure' a
document reader linked to the federal government's Social Security
Administration in order to have the potential employee swipe their new
drive's license/national ID card through the reader. Then it would be up to
the federal government to either approve or disapprove the applicant for
employment. ...

  Additionally, Section 656 of the new law states that "after October 1,
2000, Federal agencies may only accept as proof of identity driver's
licenses that conform to standards developed by the Secretary of the
Treasury," after consultation with state motor vehicle officials and the
American Association of Motor Vehicle Administrators. "The AAMVA sees
digital fingerprinting as the best way to go in driver's license
identifiers," Ms. Parker reports.

  Parker quotes Dick Armey, R-Tex., calling the move "an abomination and
wholly at odds with the American tradition of individual freedom." Jack
Kemp told the New York Times this was "an anti-privacy, anti-business and
anti-American approach." Of course, Parker adds, "all this was said before
the bills were snuck through in the last defense bill. ... For the first
time in American history and reminiscent of Communist countries, our
government would have the ability to grant approval before a private
company enters into private employment contracts with private citizens,"
all justified as necessary to ban illegal immigrants from the workplace,
and to track down "deadbeat dads" delinquent on their child-support
payments.


Your number, please?

  A sister law is the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity
Reconciliation Act of 1996, now Public Law 104-193, approved by the
"Conservative Republican
Congress" on July 23, 1996, and signed into law by President Clinton on
Aug. 22, 1996.

  Public Law 104-193 requires that, as a condition for receipt of federal
"Child Support" and "Aid to Families With Dependent Children" funding, each
state must implement federally-defined citizen locating and tracking
measures, and specifically  authorizes the use of Social Security numbers
in a new biometric identity card ("biometric" referring to individualized
digital fingerprints, retinal scans, and so forth) for NON-drivers.

  Of special note in that bill are Section 313, the "State directory of new
hires," which Ms. Parker summarizes as "all new employees to be databased
with nationwide multiple agency sharing of personal information. ... felony
conspiracy charges for employers not reporting."

  Section 316, the "Expansion of the Federal Parent Locator Service" then
gives us "Employee assets and debts to be databased. Secretary of the
Treasury to have access to database."

  And that one's followed by Section 317, "Collection and use of Social
Security numbers for use in child support enforcement," which Ms. Parker
summarizes as "All applications for professional licenses, occupational,
drivers and marriage licenses to include Social Security numbers. Formerly
illegal as an invasion of privacy under the Privacy Act of 1974, USC Title
5, Section 552a."

  Uri Dowbenko did indeed look up all this stuff for his article in the
Oct. 13, 1997 National Review, as candidate Russo reported. And Dowbenko
confirms Cyndee Parker's reading of these laws, adding:

  "There is also a stipulation for the development of
'counterfeit-resistant Social Security cards,' implying the use of
biometric data like fingerprints and/or retinal scans. This is not sci-fi,
folks, it's the law."


'Resistance will spread'

  As Mr. Safire of the Times reports, several states have already moved to
comply with the new federal requirements -- some picking up federal "pilot
program" funding for their efforts.

  "The new driver's license requirement mandating fingerprints for Georgia
drivers and those wanting ID cards passed the state Legislature with
virtually no public or media attention in April of 1996," Cyndee Parker
reports from Atlanta. "The first known announcement was on the local
Atlanta news announcing an October 1996 date to begin fingerprinting."

  Since then, efforts to repeal the Georgia fingerprinting law have been
blocked by inspired procedural maneuvering on the part of the leadership of
the Georgia state Legislature.

  Bobby Franklin is a first-term member of the Georgia House of
Representatives from District 39, in Marietta. Marietta is in Cobb County,
home of Kennesaw, which recently and famously reacted to firearm bans
elsewhere by passing a law which requires every head of household to own a
gun.

  "And the crime rate immediately dropped, and stayed down, which you will
not see covered in the national news, because that's something they do not
want you to know," laughed Rep. Franklin when I reached him at his home on
a Monday night in early January.

  But I was calling Franklin about the fingerprint law.

  "They did that here back in '96, on the last day of the session. I was
not in the House then; I was elected in '96. So we tried last year to
repeal the measure. We had several bills that were introduced, we were
promised by the chairman of the committee that it would be let out so it
could be voted on by the whole house. ..."

  Needless to say, that did not happen.

  "The (state) Senate amended to remove the fingerprints, and we missed
upholding that by one vote.

  "I know in Alabama, their department of public safety said last year,
they just up and said, 'Hey guys, we're fingerprinting.' And there was such
a public outcry against it that the department backed down and they're not
fingerprinting. And we're very close to repealing, here. Our two major
Republican candidates for governor this year are both saying they will
issue an executive order banning our Motor Vehicle Department from
fingerprinting."

  At which point, won't they just substitute retinal scans, or something
else to meet the federal requirement, I ask Franklin. After all, no state
wants its residents cut off from all those fine, federal benefits as of the
year 2000.

  "Our draft legislation says they're not allowed to use (start
ital)any(end ital) biometric identifiers. We hope if we can block it in
Georgia it will spread, that we can prevent them from instituting their
program, that resistance will spread. No one wants to be chattel. If we're
treated like a number, we're property."

  Alabama "was basically a pilot program, from what I understood. They
threw out a trial balloon to see how it would go, and they got slammed, so
they backed away from it."

  On June 19, 1997, Congressman Bob Schaffer rose to the floor of the House
of Representatives in Washington, and read into the record Colorado Joint
House Resolution 97-1027 (passed unanimously in the state Senate, and by a
vote of 59-6 in the House): "Resolved ... that we, the members of the
Sixty-first General Assembly urge the Congress of the United States to
amend or repeal those specific provisions of the federal Personal
Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act of 1996 set forth in
this Resolution that place undue burden and expense upon the several
states, that violate provisions of the Constitution of the United States,
that impose insufficiently funded mandates upon the states in the
establishment, modification, and enforcement of child support obligations,
or that unjustifiably intrude into the personal lives of the law-abiding
citizens of the United States of America."

  Resistance IS spreading.


Vin Suprynowicz is the assistant editorial page editor of the Las Vegas
Review-Journal. His book, "Send in the Waco Killers," is due from
Huntington Press in May, 1998. Readers may contact him via e-mail at
vin@lvrj.com. The web site for the Suprynowicz column is at
http://www.nguworld.com/vindex/. The column is syndicated in the United
States and Canada via Mountain Media Syndications, P.O. Box 4422, Las Vegas
Nev. 89127.

***


Vin Suprynowicz,   vin@lvrj.com

"If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude
greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace.
We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that
feeds you. May your chains set lightly upon you; and may posterity forget
that ye were our countrymen."    -- Samuel Adams

--- end forwarded text



-----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/
Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: 






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 05:53:28 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Report from CFP, from the Netly News (fwd)
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 07:52:01 -0800 (PST)
From: Declan McCullagh 
To: politech@vorlon.mit.edu
Subject: Report from CFP, from the Netly News


*****

http://cgi.pathfinder.com/netly/opinion/0,1042,1754,00.html

The Netly News Network (http://netlynews.com/)
February 20, 1998

Vive la Conference
by Declan McCullagh (declan@well.com)

       Richard Stallman is nothing if not determined. For over two
   decades this bristly MIT geek has championed an arcane cause: free
   computer programs. Stallman wants you to have the right to twiddle
   your software -- to be able to add features, rewrite it and, if you
   can figure out how, teach it get down and do the fandango. Last month
   Netscape endorsed Stallman's idea by deciding to open the lid to its
   software toolbox and encouraging any interested programmer to tinker
   with it.

       Yesterday Stallman won an award from the Electronic Frontier
   Foundation for his efforts, including writing the popular (and, of
   course, free) EMACS text editor. "I was trying to give people
   freedom," he said during the ceremony at the Computers, Freedom and
   Privacy (CFP) conference.

       Stallman is the type of fellow who frequents CFP, an annual event
   that brings together academics, government officials and Pilot-toting
   bitheads. Sparring is commonplace. Lawyers from the ACLU and the
   Center for Democracy and Technology shouted at each other yesterday
   morning when debating whether to cut deals on legislation in Congress.
   Former FTC commissioner Christine Varney said that the government
   should regulate corporations' privacy practices, and Solveig Singleton
   from the Cato Institute argued on a panel that the private sector
   should (not that I'm biased or anything). But the folks who trekked to
   Austin, Texas, this week generally share a common goal: preserving the
   unique culture of the Internet.

[...]







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 22:20:03 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: NEW TRAVEL INFO -- Israel (fwd)
Message-ID: <199802201419.IAA23796@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:
>From owner-travel-advisories@stolaf.edu Fri Feb 20 04:04:45 1998
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 11:07:49 -0500
From: owner-travel-advisories 
Subject: NEW TRAVEL INFO -- Israel
Sender: "U.S. Department of State" <76702.1202@compuserve.com>
To: travel-advisories@stolaf.edu
Message-ID: <199802171112_MC2-33A4-1596@compuserve.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
Precedence: bulk

STATE DEPARTMENT TRAVEL INFORMATION - Israel and the Occupied Territories
============================================================
Israel and the Occupied Territories  - Public Announcement
 February 14, 1998

 U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE
 Office of the Spokesman

The American Embassy in Tel Aviv and the U.S. Consulate General in 
Jerusalem are issuing the following Warden Message:

"This message supplements the Public Announcement issued by the 
U.S. Department of State on February 10, 1998 for the Middle East 
and South Asia.
 
The U.S. Embassy in Tel Aviv and Consulate General in Jerusalem 
continue to closely monitor the situation with Iraq. The U.S. 
Government believes there is a low probability of attack on Israel, 
the West Bank or Gaza, and that the possibility of Iraq using 
chemical and biological weapons (CBW) is remote, but cannot be 
excluded. American citizens are advised to avoid travel to the West 
Bank and Gaza and to exercise caution in Jerusalem, particularly in 
the area of the old city of Jerusalem.  The U.S. Consulate General 
in Jerusalem has suspended personal travel of its employees to the 
West Bank and has placed restrictions on official travel to the West 
Bank.  

These are precautionary measures only.  However, given the current 
tensions in the region, the U.S. Government believes it is important 
for all citizens to maintain readiness in the unlikely event of an 
emergency.

At this time, the Government of Israel is distributing protection 
kits to Israeli citizens and legal residents only. However, we 
understand that the government of Israel is putting in place 
arrangements to determine the most effective ways to distribute gas 
masks to foreign nationals and is in the process of acquiring 
adequate numbers of gas masks to provide for non-Israeli citizens in 
Israel, Jerusalem, and the areas of the West Bank under its control. 
 The Palestinian authority has informed the U.S. Government that it 
does not have protection kits to supply its population or foreign 
residents living within its areas of control.

For those American citizens who need to obtain a new passport or to 
update their registrations, passport hours at the Embassy (71 
Hayarkon Street, Tel Aviv) are Monday through Friday mornings from 
8:30 to 11:00 am and Wednesday afternoons from 1:30 to 3:30 pm; 
Consulate General in Jerusalem (27 Nablus Road, East Jerusalem) 
passport hours are Monday through Friday mornings from 8:30 to 
12:00, except for the last Friday of the month.

The Embassy and Consulate General urge all U.S. citizens to monitor 
local and international media for further developments.  Should the 
U.S. government need to issue advice to U.S. citizens, the Embassy 
and Consulate will notify the local media and activate our citizens 
warden network immediately.

U.S. citizens contemplating traveling to Israel, the West Bank and 
Gaza should take the above information into consideration and 
should, in addition, consult the latest Consular Information Sheet 
on Israel and the Occupied Territories dated December 23, 1997."

This Public Announcement expires on May 14, 1998.


Israel and the Occupied Territories - Consular Information Sheet
 December 23, 1997

(INCLUDING AREAS SUBJECT TO THE JURISDICTION OF THE PALESTINIAN 
INTERIM SELF-GOVERNMENT AUTHORITY)

Country Description:  The state of Israel is a parliamentary 
democracy with a modern economy.  Tourist facilities are widely 
available.  Israel occupied the West Bank, Gaza Strip, Golan 
Heights, and East Jerusalem as a result of the 1967 War.  Pursuant 
to negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians, an elected 
Palestinian authority now exercises jurisdiction in most of Gaza and 
most of the major cities of the West Bank.  Palestinian Authority 
police have responsibility for keeping order in those areas and the 
Palestinian Authority exercises a range of civil functions in other 
areas of the West Bank. Areas of Israeli and Palestinian Authority 
responsibilities and jurisdiction in the West Bank and Gaza are 
complex.  Definitive information on entry, customs requirements, 
arrests and other matters in the West Bank and Gaza may not be 
available and is subject to change without prior notice.

Embassy/Consulate Location and Sources of Assistance: The U.S. 
Embassy in Tel Aviv, Israel, is located at 71 Hayarkon Street. The 
U.S. mailing address is PSC 98, Box 0013, APO AE 09830.  The 
telephone number is (972) (3) 519-7575.  After hours number: 
519-7551.  The fax number is 972-3-516-0315.  The e-mail address is 
acs.amcit-telaviv@dos.us-state.gov.

The Consular Section of the U.S. Embassy should be contacted for 
information and help in the following areas:  Israel, the Gaza 
Strip, and ports of entry at Ben Gurion Airport, Haifa Port, and the 
northern (Jordan River) and southern (Arava) border crossings 
connecting Israel and Jordan.

The Consular Section of the U.S. Consulate General in Jerusalem is 
located at 27 Nablus Road. The U.S. mailing address is Unit 7228 Box 
0039, APO AE 09830. The telephone number is (972) (2) 625-3288 (via 
Israel)  the after hours number is 625-3201.  The fax number is 
972-2-272-2233.

The U.S. Consulate should be contacted for information and help in 
the following areas: west and east Jerusalem, the West Bank, and 
border crossings at the Allenby Bridge, connecting Jordan with the 
West Bank.

There is a U.S. Consular Agent in Haifa, at telephone (972) (04) 
853-1470, who reports to the Embassy in Tel Aviv.  The Consular 
Agent can provide routine and emergency services in the north.

Entry Requirements:

Israel:  Passports, an onward or return ticket, and proof of 
sufficient funds are required for entry.  A three-month visa may be 
issued for no charge upon arrival, and may be renewed.  Anyone who 
has been refused entry or experienced difficulties with his/her visa 
status during a previous visit, or who has overstayed a visa, can 
obtain information from the Israeli Embassy or nearest Israeli 
consulate regarding the advisability of attempting to return to 
Israel. Permission must be obtained from Israel for anyone 
attempting to claim the status of a returning resident.

Palestinian Authority:  Except during periods of closures, U.S. 
citizens, except those of Palestinian ancestry (see below) may enter 
and exit Gaza and the West Bank on a U.S. passport with an Israeli 
visa.  It is not necessary to obtain a visitor's permit from the 
Palestinian Authority.  Private vehicles frequently encounter long 
delays entering or leaving Gaza; and may also expect to be stopped 
at checkpoints entering or leaving the West Bank.

U.S. citizens who have ever held or now hold resident status in the 
West Bank or Gaza should be aware that they may be subject to the 
same travel regulations governing entry to and exit from Israel that 
affect all other resident Palestinians. In general, such individuals 
are required to hold a Palestinian passport to enter or depart Gaza 
or the West Bank via Israel.  U.S. citizen Palestinian residents 
arriving at Ben Gurion Airport without a Palestinian passport will 
be granted an entry visa to enable their transit to the West Bank or 
Gaza to obtain such documentation from the Palestinian Authority.  A 
Palestinian passport and permit to depart are required to leave via 
Ben Gurion Airport.  No permit is required for departure via the 
Rafah or Allenby border posts.

Palestinians who last departed Israel before the May 1994 Cairo 
Accords (regarding Gaza and Jericho) or the September 1995 Interim 
Agreement (regarding other areas of the West Bank) should re-enter 
Israel through the same port of entry from which they last left (and 
where their travel documents were then deposited).

Specific questions may be addressed to the nearest Israeli embassy 
or consulate.

Israel-Jordan Crossings:  International crossing points are now in 
operation between Israel and Jordan at Arava (Wadi al-'Arabah) 
crossing in the south and the Jordan River crossing (Sheikh Hussein 
Bridge) in the north.  Prior visas are not necessary for American 
citizens using these two crossing points, but travelers will have to 
pay a fee.  Visas should be obtained in advance for those wanting to 
cross the Allenby Bridge which links Jordan and the occupied West 
Bank.  (Note: Palestinian Americans with residency in the West Bank 
must cross into Jordan using the Allenby Bridge.)  Procedures for 
all crossings into Jordan are subject to frequent changes.  

For further entry information, travelers may contact the Israeli 
Embassy at 3514 International Dr., NW, Washington, DC. 20008, 
telephone (202) 364-5500, or the Israeli Consulate General in Los 
Angeles, San Francisco, Miami, Atlanta, Chicago, Boston, New York, 
Philadelphia, or Houston.

Customs Requirements:  Video cameras, among other items, must be 
declared upon entry to Israel and travelers carrying these items 
must go through the red zone at customs.  Definitive information on 
customs requirements for the Palestinian Authority is not available.

Security Measures:  Israel has strict security measures that may 
affect visitors.  Prolonged questioning and detailed searches may 
take place at the time of entry and/or departure at all points of 
entry to Israel, including entry from any of the areas under 
Palestinian jurisdiction.  American citizens with Arab surnames may 
expect close scrutiny at Ben Gurion Airport and the Allenby Bridge 
from Jordan.  For security reasons, delays or obstacles in bringing 
in or departing with cameras or electronics equipment are not 
unusual.  During searches and questioning, access may be denied to 
U.S. consular officers, lawyers, or family members.  Definitive 
information on security measures in the Palestinian Authority is not 
available.

Terrorism/Security:  Although they have not been specifically 
targeted for attack, U.S. citizens have been killed in past 
terrorist actions in Israel, the West Bank, and Gaza.   The most 
recent attacks have been in highly frequented shopping and 
pedestrian areas, and public buses. U.S. citizens should use caution 
in crowded pedestrian and shopping areas.   In addition, the U.S. 
Embassy and the Consulate General have warned their employees and 
American citizens to avoid travel on public buses, as well as 
congregating at bus stops and other crowded areas.  This restriction 
does not apply to tour buses.

U.S. citizens should, at all times, avoid large crowds and 
political demonstrations, and not remain in an area where a 
demonstration or altercation appears to be developing.  Such 
gatherings can occur spontaneously, and have the potential to become 
violent without warning.

Areas of Instability -

West Bank and Gaza:  During periods of unrest, the West Bank and 
Gaza are sometimes closed off by the Israeli government.  Travel 
restrictions may be imposed with little or no warning. Strict 
measures have frequently been imposed following terrorist actions.  
In such circumstances,  movement of Palestinians (including 
Palestinian Americans) and foreign passport holders has been 
severely impaired.

Demonstrations by Palestinians and Israelis in the West Bank have 
led to confrontations and clashes with the police, with some turning 
deadly.  Stone throwing and other forms of protest can occur without 
warning and can escalate quickly.

In view of the continued potential for violence and unrest in the 
West Bank and Gaza, the State Department advises all American 
citizens to avoid travel to these areas, except for daylight visits 
to Bethlehem, Jericho, Highway 1 from Jerusalem to the Dead Sea, 
Route 90 through the Jordan Valley, and tourist sites along these 
routes. Accessible sites for daylight visits include the Inn of the 
Samaritan, Nebi Musa, St. George's Monastery, Mount of Temptation 
Monastery, Qumran, and Qualiah Water Park.  The Consular Section of 
the U.S. Consulate General, located at 27 Nablus Road in East 
Jerusalem, is safe and accessible to all visitors.

The U.S. government maintains tight security procedures regarding 
travel of U.S. government employees, officials, and dependents to 
the Gaza Strip and the West Bank.  Frequently, U.S. government 
employees are instructed not to travel at all to these areas.  
Travel guidelines for U.S. government employees may change at any 
time.

The Palestinian police force has been established in Gaza and the 
major cities of the West Bank which are under Palestinian 
jurisdiction.  Joint Israeli/Palestinian police patrols and 
checkpoints may be encountered.  Many Israeli and Palestinian 
civilians in Gaza and the West Bank possess their own guns.

General Precautions:  Travel on strike days or after dark is not 
recommended.  Tourists using public transportation or traveling by 
car in areas less frequented by tourists are at risk.  Vehicles have 
been damaged, with rental cars in particular being targeted.

Jerusalem:  In Jerusalem, travelers can reduce their risk of being 
involved in violent incidents by traveling in groups, avoiding the 
old city at night, except for the Jewish quarter, and exercising 
caution at religious sites on holy days, Fridays, and Saturdays.  
Most roads into ultra-orthodox Jewish neighborhoods are blocked off 
on Saturdays.  Assaults on secular visitors, either for being in 
cars or for being "immodestly dressed," have been known to occur in 
these neighborhoods.

In the North:  In the Golan Heights, there are live land mines in 
many areas, and some minefields have not been clearly marked or 
fenced.  Visitors who walk only on established roads or trails will 
reduce the risk of injury from mines.  Rocket attacks from Lebanese 
territory can occur without warning close to the northern border of 
Israel.

Driving and Road Conditions:  There is a high rate of fatalities 
relating to auto accidents, and drivers should use caution.  While 
the roads in Israel are well built, the roads in Gaza and most of 
the West Bank are of poor quality.

Arrests and Detention:  U.S. citizens arrested by the Israeli 
National Police (INP) and charged with crimes are entitled to legal 
representation and consular notification and visitation.  Typically 
the INP notifies the Embassy or Consulate General within two days of 
arrest, and consular access is normally granted within four days.  
This procedure may be expedited if the arrested American shows a 
U.S. passport to the police as proof of U.S. citizenship, or asks 
for access to the Embassy or Consulate General.

U.S. citizens arrested in the West Bank for criminal offenses may 
be prevented from communicating with lawyers, family members, or 
consular officers. The U.S. Consulate General is often not notified 
of the arrest, or notified in a timely manner.  Consular access to 
the arrestees can be initially denied and is frequently delayed.

In contrast to persons arrested for criminal offenses, U.S. 
citizens arrested or detained in Israel and the West Bank on 
suspicion of security offenses often are not permitted to 
communicate with consular officials, lawyers, or family members in a 
timely manner during the interrogation period of their case.  They 
may be detained for up to six months at a time without charges.  
Youths over the age of fourteen have been detained and tried as 
adults.  Neither the Embassy nor the Consulate are normally notified 
of the arrests of Americans in the West Bank by Israeli authorities, 
and access to detainees is frequently delayed.  Notification may be 
more rapid if the detained American shows a U.S. passport as proof 
of citizenship and asks the local authorities to contact the Embassy 
or Consulate General.

Medical Facilities:  Modern medical care and medicines are 
available in Israel.  However, some hospitals in Israel and most 
hospitals in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank fall below U.S. 
standards.  Travelers can find information in English about 
emergency medical facilities and after-hours pharmacies in the 
"Jerusalem Post" newspaper.  Doctors and hospitals often expect 
immediate cash payment for health services.  U.S. medical insurance 
is not always valid outside the united states.  Supplemental medical 
insurance with specific overseas coverage has proven useful.  The 
Internet site at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention 
(http://www.cdc.gov) has additional health information. Travelers 
from regions where contagious diseases are prevalent may need to 
show shot records before entry into Israel.

Information on Crime:  The crime rate is moderate in Israel, the 
Gaza Strip, and the West Bank.  The loss or theft of a U.S. passport 
abroad should be reported immediately to local police and the 
nearest U.S. embassy or consulate.  Useful information on 
safeguarding valuables, protecting personal security, and other 
matters is provided in the Department of State pamphlets, "A Safe 
Trip Abroad" and "Tips for Travelers to the Middle East and North 
Africa," available from the Superintendent of Documents, U.S. 
Government Printing Office, Washington, DC. 20402.

Drug Penalties:  U.S. citizens are subject to the laws of the 
territory in which they are traveling.  Penalties for possession, 
use or trafficking in illegal drugs are severe in Israel, and 
convicted offenders can expect jail sentences and fines.  The 
Palestinian Authority also has strict penalties for drug use by 
persons under its jurisdiction.

Court Jurisdiction:  Under Israel's judicial system, the rabbinical 
courts exercise jurisdiction over all Jewish citizens and residents 
of Israel in cases of marriage and divorce and related issues, such 
as support and child custody.  Rabbinical courts can also impose 
sanctions, including jail terms and restrictions against leaving the 
country, on individuals married in a Jewish religious ceremony who, 
in case of divorce, refuse to give their spouses a religious divorce 
("get").  In some cases, Jewish Americans, who entered Israel as 
tourists, have become defendants in divorce cases filed against them 
in a rabbinical court in Israel by their American spouses who are 
seeking a religious divorce that the defendants have refused to 
give.  These Americans have been detained in Israel for prolonged 
periods while the Israeli courts consider whether such individuals 
have sufficient ties to Israel to establish rabbinical court 
jurisdiction.  In one case, the rabbinical courts detained in Israel 
a Jewish American tourist who had been sued for support by his 
spouse in the United States.  Jewish American visitors should be 
aware that they may be subject to involuntary and prolonged stays in 
Israel if a case is filed against them in a rabbinical court.  This 
may occur even when the marriage took place in the U.S., and/or the 
spouse seeking relief is not present in Israel.  

Dual Nationality:  Israeli citizens naturalized in the United 
States retain their Israeli citizenship, and their children are 
considered Israeli citizens as well.  In addition, children born in 
the United States to Israeli parents acquire both U.S. and Israeli 
nationality at birth.  Israeli citizens, including dual nationals, 
are subject to Israeli laws requiring service in Israel's armed 
forces.  U.S.-Israeli dual nationals of military age who do not wish 
to serve in the Israeli armed forces may contact the Israeli Embassy 
to obtain proof of exemption or deferment from Israeli military 
service before going to Israel.  Otherwise, they may not be able to 
leave the country without doing military service.  Israeli citizens, 
including dual nationals, must enter and depart Israel on their 
Israeli passports.  (Note:  U.S.-Israeli dual citizens must enter 
and depart the U.S. on their U.S. passports.)

Palestinian-American citizens with residency rights in Gaza or the 
West Bank are subject to the same regulations as other resident 
Palestinians.  This normally requires them to depart these areas 
with Palestinian travel documents or (for residents of Jerusalem) 
laissez-passers with re-entry permits approved by the Israeli 
Ministry of Interior.

Registration:  The State Department advises American citizens who 
plan to be in the region for a substantial period of time to 
register at the U.S. Embassy in Tel Aviv or the U.S. Consulate 
General in Jerusalem.  When registering, U.S. citizens can obtain 
updated information on travel and security in the area.

 No. 97-169

This replaces the Consular Information Sheet dated January 22, 
1997, to provide new information about travel documentation for 
Palestinian Americans, and to update the sections on entry/exit 
requirements, terrorism and security, and arrest and detentions.

----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- -----
The "travel-advisories@stolaf.edu" mailing list is the official Internet and
BITNET distribution point for the U.S. State Department Travel Warnings and
Consular Information Sheets.  To unsubscribe, send a message containing the
word "unsubscribe" to:	travel-advisories-request@stolaf.edu

Archives of past "travel-advisories" postings are available at the URL:
"http://www.stolaf.edu/network/travel-advisories.html" or via Gopher:
gopher.stolaf.edu, Internet Resources/US-State-Department-Travel-Advisories





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 12:40:27 +0800
To: Robert Hettinga 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980220091102.008dd590@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 10:18 AM 2/20/98 -0500, Robert Hettinga wrote:
>The following is something I wrote for a private online conference
>sponsored by Nikkei, the Japanese financial news organization. Since
>they're supposedly combing the list for quotable bon mots, I may end up in
>the Japanese papers. :-).
Heh - West Coast Cypherpunks end up on Japanese TV :-)

Good article.  If you're trying to emphasize the financial stuff, 
moving it up to the beginning would help, but I don't know the audience 
you wrote it for.  A few nitpicks:

>Okay. Now let's look at the future, shall we? Oddly enough, the "future"
>starts with the grant of telephone monopoly to AT&T in the 1920's in
>exchange for universal telephone service. When AT&T figured out that a
>majority of people would have to be telephone operators for that to happen,
>it started to automate switching, from electricomechanical, to electronic
>(the transistor was invented at Ball Labs, remember), to, finally,
>semiconducting microprocessors.  

_Bell_ Labs, and BTW they developed one of the first 8-bit microprocessors;
the MAC-8 was used for building telephone things back in late 4004 days.
However, the Electro-Mechanical telephone switch was Not Invented Here -
Strowger developed it to protect privacy and increase reliability
(he suspected that a competitor had bribed the telephone operator to
connect customers to the competitor's business instead of Strowger's.)
He offered it for sale to the Bell Telephone Companies, who were too
clueless to see the economics and buy it; they caught on a few years later,
and had to pay tons of money to the competitor who'd licensed the patent. 

> But, what, you ask, do I do when someone defrauds me? .....
> In a geodesic market, if someone commits fraud, everyone knows it. 
> Instantly. And, something much worse than incarceration happens to
> that person. That person's reputation "capital" disappears. 

The difficulty, of course, is that geodesic markets with bearer 
instruments make it easy to do business anonymously - so everyone
may know that fraud was committed, but not know who committed it.
(Like the US political excuse "Mistakes were made".)
The lack of need for accounts and reputation capital is part of what
makes geodesic markets financially advantageous.  On the other hand,
reconciling these differences is complex enough that cryptographers
and financial folks can make big bucks getting it right :-)
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 12:39:59 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: your mail
In-Reply-To: <241e4ef7f128aa790d464cb6e45d4dd2@anon.efga.org>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980220091731.008ddc00@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>> In case my last message doesn't get through,
>> I'm looking for info on how one can create and
>> use a persistent Nym. I looked and can't find
>> info on how to do this anywhere (besides the
>> creation of a "free" email account somewhere).
>> Can any cypherpunks help?

Cypherpunks have discussed this intensely;
ask AltaVista where to find "nymserver"s and
"encrypted reply block"s.

The Anonymous Remailer List claims to be at
http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~raph/remailer-list.html
(though it might be on publius.net these days), and has some
pointers to starting places.

Private Idaho is a convenient user-interface tool for crypto
and remailers, and really simplified setting up and using some
of the early servers.

Another approach is to create a PGP key for your nym
(or a Crypto Kong key), always sign your postings,
and use anonymous remailers for sending mail,
and either read replies on the cypherpunks list
or on some broadcast medium like alt.anonymous.messages.
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 12:40:08 +0800
To: "William H. Geiger III" 
Subject: Re: No Real Debate Yet on the War
In-Reply-To: <89B3250098@ou20.csm.port.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980220092346.008dd590@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>>The more American, British, Australian, French etc. troops that die  in
>>the Gulf War II (tm), the more the western world will realise that  war
>>involves losses and that we cannot go on policing the world.  

As with the previous round of Desert Scam, very few invaders will die,
because the military objective is to cause mass destruction, not to 
conquer and hold.  And the press will focus on the invaders that die,
not on the tens or hundreds of thousands of Iraqis killed.

>Well if the US was to really take the moral HighGround on this they would
>be bombing France and Germany for supplying them with CBW supplies for
>years.

They'd also be focusing on the great job they've done eliminating the
entire US stock of CBW and nukes.  Oh, we haven't?  Well their weapons 
of mass destruction are Evil, and ours are Freedom Fighting Tools.
Actually the US and Former Soviet Union have substantially reduced the
nuclear forces, especially older missiles that are hard to maintain,
but the US refused for a long time to sign the CBW treaties,
and I'm not sure they ever did follow through and destroy their supplies.
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Paul Bradley" 
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 17:32:02 +0800
To: Tim May 
Subject: Re: No Real Debate Yet on the War
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <89B3250098@ou20.csm.port.ac.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




> * speaking of plans, the plans are very vague. The public does not know
> what the goals of a war might be, what the endgame options are, how many
> Americans are likely to die, what the likely counterpunch will be (hint:
> think terrorist attacks), and just how the U.S. plans to fight a war
> without clear goals and clear support.

Yes, it will be a great sight indeed to see Iraqi freedom-fighters 
bombing the hell out of soft targets in America, Britain, Australia 
and any other imperialist countries who like to consider themselves 
among the world police. 


> * essentially no one thinks a bombing campaign will either kill Saddam, who
> moves around a lot to highly secret locations (including houses of
> peasants), or will destroy all of those small cannisters of anthrax and
> sarin and the like...when asked, Albright and Cohen are vague and
> dissembling.

The same is true in the UK, a few days ago I saw a television 
interview (I rarely watch such rubbish but I sometimes like to laugh 
at the spin, but it also depresses me that most citizen-units swallow 
this crap) with some government minister who said that "We can attack 
strategic points along the production line without releasing any 
chemical agents", another lie. It is also a commonly held public 
misconception that there is such a thing as a "precision bombing 
campaign" (government spindoctor term) which most people believe 
implies a campaign where no-one is injured but we miraculously win 
a war without any casualties.  
The more American, British, Australian, French etc. troops that die 
in the Gulf War II (tm), the more the western world will realise that 
war involves losses and that we cannot go on policing the world.  

 
--                  
                            Paul Bradley 
                      paul@fatmans.demon.co.uk
       "Why should anyone want to live on rails?" - Stephen Fry





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 12:40:00 +0800
To: Tim May 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980220093846.008dd100@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Adam:
>>I tend to agree with the view that monopolies exist due to government
>>subsidies (eg. free government enforcement services for copyright,
>>corporate welfare, government contracts.)

Monopolies may depend on government for long-term stability,
but fads can stick around for quite a while before dying out.
Remember Disco?  :-)

Attila also talked about Intel making badly-designed microprocessors.
It was somewhat of a vicious circle, since the big market for 80*86s
required bug-for-bug compatibility with Microsloth's "640K is enough" 
real-mode DOS, partly because of the large investment companies had in 
applications like word processors that ran in that environment.
Getting out of the problem requires replacing a whole bunch of things
at the same time, and incremental upgrades can't get you there.
(For a horrendous example, there's the Air Traffic Control system,
brought to you by the same government that wants to help us fix our
Microsoft addictions; got any spare 360/90 clones?)

Tim:
>I am trying to sit out this latest "Microsoft" thread as much as I can bear
>to. (It seems that several lists I'm are consumeed by the dual memes of
>"What to do about Microsoft?" and "What to do about spam?" Same arguments,
>recycled endlessly.)
Obviously, ship the spam to Microsoft and be done with it :-)
The Spam Wars does seem to be muscling out "Libertarians vs. Statists"
as the canonical all-consuming political discussion on the net,
though there's a fair bit of overlap.




>My view is a simple one: those who don't like Microsoft products should use
>something else. It works for me.

Sigh.  In the business world, we tend to be stuck with Microsoft products,
chosen by the same clueless bureaucrats who choose 10-pound laptops :-)
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 05:56:15 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: news chaos
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980220095854.007cf2b0@otc.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



http://dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/technology/wired/story.html?s=n/reuters
/980220/wired/stories/chaos_1.html

 Friday February 20 9:44 AM EST 

 Chaos may hold key to encryption, researchers say

 WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The key to secret communications may lie in chaos,
researchers reported Thursday. 

 They said they managed to encrypt information by making use of a noisy and
chaotic optical circuit. 

 Gregory VanWiggeren and Rjarshi Roy of the Georgia Institute of Technology
in Atlanta said they were able to use the chaotic
 fluctuations in a light signal to hide information. Duplicating qualities
of the transmitter allowed them to decode the message. 

 The value of such tools is growing as electronic commerce becomes more
widespread and businesses try to encode their material
 for secure transactions and communications. 

 They did not suggest how their scientific experiment, which they reported
in the journal Science, might be given a practical
 application. 

 VanWiggeren and Roy said they used an erbium-doped fiber ring laser. 

 "These lasers are particularly well suited for communication purposes
purposes because their lasing wavelengths roughly
 correspond to the minimum-loss wavelength in optical fiber," they wrote. 

 "A small 10 megahertz message was embedded in the larger chaotic carrier
and transmitted to the receiver system," they added.
 "The receiver has the same non-linearities as the transmitter, allowing it
to unfold the message from the chaos." 

 Researchers have in the past been able to bury messages in a noisy
electronic circuit but the low bandwidths of the systems make
 them less practical for high-speed communications. Optical circuits have
higher bandwidths. 

 "These preliminary but intriguing results suggest that chaos-based
applications may be more than just a laboratory curiosity," D. J.
 Gauthier at Duke University wrote in a commentary on the findings. 
------------------------------------------------------------
      David Honig                   Orbit Technology
     honig@otc.net                  Intaanetto Jigyoubu

   If you plan to enter text which our system might consider to be obscene, 
   check here to certify that you are old enough to hear the resulting
output. 
		http://www.bell-labs.com/project/tts/voices.html






	















From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 23:44:31 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: A Geodesic Society?
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


X-Sender: rah@pop.sneaker.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 08:36:21 -0500
To: e$@vmeng.com
From: Robert Hettinga 
Subject: A Geodesic Society?
Sender: 
Precedence: Bulk

The following is something I wrote for a private online conference
sponsored by Nikkei, the Japanese financial news organization. Since
they're supposedly combing the list for quotable bon mots, I may end up in
the Japanese papers. :-).

Anyway, longtime residents of this list have seen me say this kind of stuff
before, but for those who haven't, the following explains the kinds of
effects I think the combination of ubiquitous public networks and financial
cryptography can have.

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga

--- begin forwarded text


X-Sender: rah@pop.sneaker.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 00:24:07 -0500
To: gis-ec@nikkei.co.jp, gis-net@nikkei.co.jp
From: Robert Hettinga 
Subject: [gis-asia 10] A Geodesic Society?
Cc: gis-asia@nikkei.co.jp
Reply-To: gis-asia@nikkei.co.jp
X-MLserver: majordomo-1.94.1 k-patch-2.0-alpha p-patch-1.0
X-sequence: gis-asia 10
Sender: owner-gis-asia@tokyo.nikkei.co.jp
Precedence: bulk

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

As the token cryptoanarchist around here, I've been lurking way too long,
mostly because I'm working on this financial cryptography conference we're
doing in Anguilla next week. However, A lot of good stuff has gone by on all
of these groups, and I think it's time I put my oar in and earned my keep a
bit before I enter the maelstrom of next week's FC98 conference, and loose
my chance to say anything here until it's all over.


The first topic I'd like to talk about is something which is more general
than my ostensible commercial focus in these discussions, and, after I've
said my piece here, I'll go back to the commerce list and pay more attention
to that end of things.  I have a little more to say there on what you can do
with the technology of money on public networks, though I'll drop a few
hints here to get people thinking about them.


My observation about networks in general is a rather obvious one when you
think about it: our social structures map to our communication structures.
As intuitive as it is to understand, this observation provides great insight
into where the technology of computer assisted communication will take us in
the years ahead.


Because of Moore's Law and its effect of collapsing the price of
semiconductors by half every 18 months, our telecommunication architectures
have changed from hierarchical networks, where it's cheaper to add lines
than it is to add expensive switching nodes, to geodesic networks, where it
is ever-exponentially cheaper to add microprocessor switches instead of now
relatively more expensive transmission lines.

This isn't new. In fact, it's outlined in Peter Huber's landmark "The
Geodesic Network", written in 1986 as a report for Judge Harold Greene as
part of the Modified Final Judgement which broke up American Telephone and
Telegraph, and with it the US telephone monopoly. I believe the original
version is still available from the US Government Printing Office, and I
know that you can order a revised edition from Peter Huber's law firm in
Washington. Huber himself is now a famous technology analyst from the
Manhattan Institute and a Forbes columnist, among other things.

In "The Geodesic Network", Huber observed that because the network was
becoming more and more geodesic, competition in telecommunications was
becoming much easier. That's because switching, a scarce thing which had
theretofore caused economies of scale and resultant "natural" monopoly, was
becoming cheaper and cheaper to build, and thus causing *dis*economies of
scale in the telephone markets.

One can almost hear Huber doing a little heavy lifting from the Marines in
report's conclusion, which was, essentially, "Deregulate 'em all, and let
God sort 'em out." It's nice to see that we're finally getting to see
deregulation of the "last mile" of the US telephone network 10 years after
Huber's recommendation.

As it is, it took *me* almost 10 years to realize something else about
geodesic networks. It's something which required me getting back on the
internet 4 years ago, after not being there since grad school, and
discovering that financial cryptography -- that is, the cryptographic
protocols for internet payment -- was much more important than the project
management software I had wanted to sell on the net at the time.

My realization was, if Moore's Law creates geodesic communications networks,
and our social structures -- our institutions, our businesses, our
governments -- all map to the way we communicate in large groups, then we
are in the process of creating a geodesic society. A society in which
communication between any two residents of that society, people, economic
entities, pieces of software, whatever, is geodesic: literally, the
straightest line across a sphere, rather than hierarchical, through a chain
of command, for instance.

This seems like a very simple truth these days. A "motherhood", as people in
American business like to say. But, once you start thinking about the world
in the terms of geodesic networks versus hierarchical ones, the world
changes. A Buckminster Fuller version of satori, if you will, though I'm
sure Bucky didn't think of human society in geodesic terms, at least from
what I've read of his work. His "World Game", for instance, is primarily
about the hierarchical centralization and redistribution of resources in an
industrial fashion. But, as it was, Bucky Fuller had discovered a geometric
archtype which was deeper than even his capacious understanding of its
implications had gotten him before.

So in light of this observation, for fun, let's look at human history in a
few paragraphs. :-).

Humans first lived in small groups on the African savanna. An artifact of
this life is the fact that most people can't have serious emotional
relationships with more than about 12 people, depending on how you define
serious. :-). Think of it as the carrying capacity of the human "switch",
and things get interesting. These small groups communicated geodesically.
When you wanted to talk to someone, you went up and talked to them. Then we
developed agriculture and its resulting food surpluses, people tended to
congregate at the crossroads of trade routes, and that's where the first
cities began. Civilization means, literally, "life in cities", remember?
Once we had large groups of people in a single place, we had lots of
information to pass around, but we also had expensive humans "switching"
that information who were only able to trust about 12 people at any time.
So, we had to develop hierarchical "networks", social organizations in other
words, to move that information around. Notice we finesse the whole trust
problem by using the entire hierarchy as one entity in everyone's
trusted-person list. That's why people die for king and country, for
instance, instead of just their family hunter-gatherer clan.

So, we can now see the ancient city-state as a hierarchy of power,
economics, whatever. We can also see ancient empires as a hierarchies of
city states, and so on. Notice that the size of any given hierarchy in
geographic terms is determined by the *speed* of communications it posesses.
Athenian triremes were very secure ways to move goods and information in a
relatively lawless Agean. Roman roads and galleys didn't just haul goods
quickly, they moved information as well. Staged Mongol riders could carry
messages across their own short-lived empire from a capital near China to
the gates of Warsaw in as little as 14 days. Napoleon invented his
10-mile-an-hour stagecoach and highway system for exactly the same reason,
and could almost legitimately call himself an emperor for the feat alone.

That brings us to the modern nation state, which, I claim, is entirely the
result of industrial communications technology. That is, you have
increasingly faster communications, from sailing ships to trains to
telegraphy and finally telephony, but you still have humans switching
information. That gives you larger and larger communication, and thus
social, hierarchies. Up until the automation of telephone switching --
paradoxically brought about a demand for universal service in exchange for
that ultimate industrial hierarchy, the US telephone monopoly -- things just
kept getting bigger and bigger. One could even see the increasing size of
government in this century as an "antihierarchy" funded by the forcible
confiscation or political extortion of economic rents from the large
industrial hierarchies where industrial society's money was being made in
the first place.

For a tasty little digression, Marxism then can be seen as simple
anti-industrialism, and an intriguing validation of Bertrand Russell's
comments about the similarity of Marxism and the feudal aristocracy it hated
so much. Hegel can't come to Marx's rescue here at all, because, for all
it's anarchistic pretensions, Marxism can now be seen as merely
industrialism's hierarchical antithesis, and not something "beyond
capitalism". Besides, trading has been around since the savana itself. It's
hard to imagine something antithetical to trade -- and have the result be
human, anyway. :-).


Okay. Now let's look at the future, shall we? Oddly enough, the "future"
starts with the grant of telephone monopoly to AT&T in the 1920's in
exchange for universal telephone service. When AT&T figured out that a
majority of people would have to be telephone operators for that to happen,
it started to automate switching, from electricomechanical, to electronic
(the transistor was invented at Ball Labs, remember), to, finally,
semiconducting microprocessors.  Which, Huber noted, brought us Moore's Law,
and, finally, that mother of all geodesic networks, the internet.

So, seen this way, using the hierarchy-to-geodesy synthesis (speaking of
Hegel :-)), a lot of things jump out right at us. Let's look at financial
operations, for example.

One can see, for instance, that the thing we call disintermediation in the
capital markets is in fact a process leading to something I call
*micro*intermediation, where large human decision hierarchies, like the New
York Stock Exchange, or money center banks, are being outcompeted by large
integrated proprietary computer networks, like the NASDAQ interbrokerage
network, or Fidelity Investments here in Boston. Yet, these financial
versions of big dumb bulletin boards, which still need humans to operate
them on behalf of the customer, will themselves be replaced someday by
smaller, more specialized and automated entities operating in increasingly
smaller market niches, and, we aren't just talking about financial
"shovelware", with database-driven web forms, either.

Someday, for instance, a couple of portfolio managers from Fidelity could
strike out on their own peculiar investment specialty, and set up a web
server to handle their investor relations, but in a way that financial
operations people thought was obsolete decades ago. Using financial
cryptgraphy like David Chaum's blind signature protocol, our portfolio
managers could just issue digital *bearer* certificates, right over the net
to their customers, representing shares in the portfolio they manage, rather
than keep track of all a given client's transactions in a database for
posterity. Even more fun, using the digital bearer *cash* they get from the
sale of those certificates, they could turn right around and instantly buy
debt, equity, or any derivative thereof, in digital bearer form, of course,
without waiting for any transactions to settle through a clearinghouse of
any kind. Why? Because knowing that you've digitally signed a unique blop of
bits and honoring the promises those various outstanding blops represent is
a whole lot easier, faster, and, of course, cheaper than keeping track of
every transaction you make for seven years, or whatever your friendly nation
state says you have to do so they can send somebody to jail if that person
lies to you. And, of course, digital bearer settlement is *much* faster than
waiting for all those book-entries to percolate through various
clearinghouses, banks, brokerages, and other financial intermediaries in
order for a trade to clear and settle.


Financial cryptography is a direct consequence of Moore's Law. You can't do
it without computers, and, more important, lots of cheap computers on a
network. But, you can do a lot of very neat things with it, as we've seen
above. In fact, the protocols of financial cryptography will be the glue
which holds a geodesic economy, if you will, together. And, of course, as
Deke Slayton put it, "No bucks, no Buck Rogers." No geodesic economy, no
geodesic society.

I joke about VISA being replaced someday by an innumerable swarm of very
small underwriting 'bots' whose job it is to form an ad hoc syndicate which
buys the personal digital bearer bond issue you floated for today's lunch.
In a geodesic market, the one-to-many relationships of hierarchical
book-entry-settled industrial finance, like checks and credit cards, becomes
to the many-to-one relationship of the geodesic digital-bearer-settled cash
and the personal bond syndicate.

But, what, you ask, do I do when someone defrauds me? The neat thing about
using financial cryptography on public networks is that you can use the much
cheaper early-industrial trust models that went away because you couldn't
shove a paper bearer bond down a telegraph wire. In short, reputation
becomes everything. Like J. Pierpont Morgan said 90 years ago,
"...Character. I wouldn't buy anything from a man with no character if he
offered me all the bonds in Christendom." In a geodesic market, if someone
commits fraud, everyone knows it. Instantly. And, something much worse than
incarceration happens to that person. That person's reputation "capital"
disappears. They cease to exist financially. Financial cryptographers
jokingly call it reputation capital punishment. :-). The miscreant has to
start all over with a new digital signature, and have to pay through the
nose until that signature's reputation's established. A very long and
expensive process, as anyone who's gone bankrupt will testify to.

So, you don't need biometric identity to stop non-repudiation. Translated,
that means that since you're moving secure digital bearer certificates over
an insecure private network like the internet, and not moving insecure
debits and credits over a secure private network like the SWIFT system, you
don't need audit trails to send someone to jail if they make the wrong book
entry.

Instead, you trust the issuer of a given piece of digital bearer cash, say,
and not the person who gave it to you, just like you trust the issuer of a
given currency today. Biometric identity is orthogonal to reputation in, um,
"cypherspace". And, of course, a financial intermediary like the above
issuer of digital bearer cash is not about to destroy its reputation for the
sake of a very small transaction like the one you're doing, any more than
the Fed would demand 6 one dollar bills in exchange for one five dollar bill
just to make an extra buck. Well, not since they started listening to
Friedman, anyway. :-)


Microintermediation means what it says. Financial intermediaries never go
away. You can't have markets, much less efficient ones, without financial
intermediaries buying things low and selling them high. Renting their
reputations to ensure transaction liquidity, in other words. This is at the
essense of Von Mises' "Calculation Argument" against planned economies, and
the defunct economy of the ex-Soviet Union is mute testament to that
particular economic truth.


Moore's Law, I like to say, operates like a surfactant of information,
breaking great globs of concentrated information fractally into smaller and
smaller bits, like so much grease in soapy dishwater. Capital, for the most
part, can now be converted into information and instantantly bought or sold,
or, more to the point, instantly settled and cleared in digital bearer form,
in increasingly smaller and smaller bits, by smaller and smaller and
increasingly more automated financial intermediaries. Microintermediated, in
other words.

What we get is a world where anything which can be digitized and sent down a
wire will be auctioned off in real-time in cash-settled markets. Stuff like
capital we've seen, but lots of other things, which are not immediately
intuitive. Machine instructions -- teleoperated or not. Software of all
kinds including entertainment and art. Bandwidth; I talk about a router
saving enough micromoney out of switching income to buy a copy of itself.

Maybe even adjudication and physical force, someday. After all, who says we
have to buy violence from the local force monopolies we now call nation
states, especially if we can get it cheaper and better -- and possibly in
smaller amounts -- in a competitive auction market?  Curioser and curioser,
as Alice used to say...

I mean, the nation-state's just another hierarchical artifact of industrial
communication technology, right? Besides, If everyone's paying for things in
cash and no book entry taxes can be collected because there aren't any book
entries, then, as someone said on a Harvard Law School list a few years ago,
"What happens when taxes become a tip"? Of course, there are various
cypherpunks out there who say things like "Write softare, not laws.", which
should make those folks on Mass Ave in Cambridge more than a little nervous
themselves.

So, welcome to the geodesic future. Not hoping to attract the wrath of the
famous curse, isn't it an, um, interesting place?


Cheers,
Bob Hettinga










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-----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/
Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: 

--- end forwarded text



-----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/
Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: 




----------------------------------------------------------------------
Where people, networks and money come together: Consult Hyperion
http://www.hyperion.co.uk/                   info@hyperion.co.uk
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Full-Strength Cryptographic Solutions for Worldwide Electronic Commerce
http://www.c2.net/                                   stronghold@c2.net
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Like e$? Help pay for it!
For e$/e$pam sponsorship or donations, 
----------------------------------------------------------------------

--- end forwarded text



-----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/
Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: 






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Heinz-Juergen Keller 
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 17:50:33 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: your mail
In-Reply-To: <241e4ef7f128aa790d464cb6e45d4dd2@anon.efga.org>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On Thu, 19 Feb 1998, Anonymous wrote:

 
> In case my last message doesn't get through,
> I'm looking for info on how one can create and
> use a persistent Nym. I looked and can't find
> info on how to do this anywhere (besides the
> creation of a "free" email account somewhere).
> Can any cypherpunks help?
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> 
Lutz Donnerhacke is working on something you might like.
Have a look at http://www.iks-jena.de/mitarb/lutz/anon/as-node.en.html.

- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Heinz-Juergen Keller     hjkeller@gmx.[net,de]
  2047bit PGP Public Key : http://www.ddorf.rhein-ruhr.de/~hjk/
  MD5 Fingerprint: 4d33126fbf8c1bcd8e96ba90d99f0bdc
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: sunder 
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 00:09:26 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Fwd: Big Brother Sees through walls (from the spyking list)
Message-ID: <34EDA7B4.A7AD9E88@brainlink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



1)From: "George Martin" 
Subject: News Release: High-Tech Surveillance

NEWS FROM THE LIBERTARIAN PARTY
2600 Virginia Avenue, NW, Suite 100
Washington DC 20037
 
Do you have any privacy left when Big Brother can spy on
you from space -- or through your walls?

WASHINGTON, DC -- Spy satellites. Gamma ray scanners. 
Thermal-imaging devices.

It's not science fiction -- it's a list of the exotic, high-tech 
surveillance equipment the government now uses to monitor, track, 
and arrest American citizens, the Libertarian Party pointed out
today.

"Yesterday's science fiction has become today's political reality,"
said Steve Dasbach, the party's national chairman. "High-tech military
equipment that was once used against foreign armies is now
being used against American citizens on a routine basis."
  
As a result, the Fourth Amendment's protection against "unreasonable 
search" is under technological siege, he warned -- and government agencies 
are rushing to take advantage of this new power.
   
"Most people don't realize it, but law enforcement agencies are now
spying on us through the walls of our houses, taking high-resolution
photographs of us from space, and conducting drug tests based on trace
elements of chemicals in the air," said Dasbach.

Paranoid fantasy? Not at all: Such high-tech surveillance equipment
is becoming an increasingly common tool for law enforcement, according 
to reports in USA Today and the Wall Street Journal.
     
Here's a sampling of how state and federal agencies are using this
terrifying technology to spy on Americans:

* In North Carolina, county governments use high-resolution spy satellite
photographs to search for property improvements that might increase
property tax assessments.

* On the Mexican border, police use a "gamma ray scanner" to check
tanker trucks for contraband, scanning right through the vehicle's metal
sides.
  
* The Naval Surface Warfare Center has developed an "ion sniffer,"
a metal box that analyzes the chemical makeup of the air -- and can detect,
for example, traces of cocaine through the skin days after drug use.
 
* In Georgia, the state's Department of Revenue will start using
NASA satellites to examine the state's 58,910 square miles for illegal
timber cutting.
 
* In New Jersey, California, and other states, police use thermal
imaging devices to scan houses for unusual heat sources that could indicate
indoor marijuana growing operations. Houses can be scanned while police sit
in their cruisers on the street.
 
* And in Arizona, the state's Department of Water Resources uses
spy satellite photographs to monitor 750,000 acres of state farmland, and
compares the images to a database to discover which farmers don't have
irrigation permits.

Even worse: The federal government will spend another $4.5 million
this year to develop even more intrusive surveillance equipment.
  
Currently under development by the Justice Department: A "super
x-ray" -- combining traditional x-ray technology, ultra-sound imaging, 
and computer-aided metal detectors -- to reveal items hidden under clothes 
from up to 60 feet away.

The courts are currently wrestling with the implications of the new
technology, debating the limits of the government's power to "search"
individuals from a distance with high-tech gadgets. Several contradictory
court decisions have already emerged, for example, about whether
thermal-imaging searches are Constitutional.

Meanwhile, Republican and Democratic politicians continue to look
for new uses of the technology -- with some government officials already
talking about using satellite surveillance to track items as small as
backyard porches to check for zoning violations and construction permits.

"In the name of fighting crime, politicians seem eager to obliterate the
protections against unreasonable search, with equipment that Americans used
to only read about in Tom Clancy technothrillers," said Dasbach. "It's time
for the American public to wake up and realize that Big Brother is here
today -- and he's got a gamma ray scanner in his hand."


-- 

=====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos==============
.+.^.+.|  Ray Arachelian    |Prying open my 3rd eye.  So good to see |./|\.
..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were      |/\|/\
<--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run  |\/|\/
../|\..| "A toast to Odin,  |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/.
.+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were....            |.....
======================= http://www.sundernet.com ==========================





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: sunder 
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 00:12:34 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: FWD: Confirmations of Echelon (from Spy King)
Message-ID: <34EDA873.83F5A3@brainlink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



4)From: mkw-detective@t-online.de (MK-Wirtschaftsdienst GmbH)
Subject: NSA spying in Europe

The german online-magaine "Com!" (author: ulrike.duhm@t-online.de)
brought an article about the report of the european parliament.

Here a summary:

The european parliament reported, that the american secret service NSA
is monitoring emails, phonecalls and faxes. The informations are
forwarded from London and Menwith Hill via satellite to Fort Meade in
Maryland. Menwith Hill in Yorkshire, England, is the biggest spy post of
the world, that for the NSA collects political, economical, military and
private informations from europe and the former Sowjetunion.

The 48 year old Glyn Ford, member of the Labour-Party is behind this
report. Author of the 100 page document is Steve Wright of the
Manchester Omega foundation. The complete report can be found under:
www.heise.de/tp/deutsch/inhalt/te/1393/anchor1.html

For the first time, the european parliament confirmed the existence of
the spy network Echelon, the american part of the spysystem UKUSA.
1948, the USA, England, Canada, Australia and New Zeeland signed a
secret contract, the so called "United Kingdom - United States
Agreement" (UKUSA). Goal of it is the collective espionage. Via an
international ring of agents, the partners are exchanging informations.

The german hackers "Chaos Computer Club" (www.ccc.de) thinks, that the
european eMail-user is trapped in a net of foreign forces. They are
concerned, that the newest versions of the encryption software PGP are
in part not compatible with older versions. The result: The exchange
between different versions is not possible. For the computer club, that
is no coincidence: the hackers from Hamburg, Germany,  believe, that a
contract between USA and Germany exists, that Germany is not allowed to
use a software, that the NSA cannot look in."

So far some excerpts out of the article.  Here some homepages:

Glyn Ford:                   www.zen.co.uk/home/page/glyn.ford/index.htm

NSA:                          www.nsa.gov:8080

european parliament:    www.europarl.eu.int

Heise newsticker:
www.telepolis.de/newsticker/data/ae-09.01.98-000

spy post Menwith Hill: www.fas.org/irp/facility/menwith.htm

Electronic telegraph:
www.telegraph.co.uk:80/et?ac=000602131144806&rtmo=
OsKsx2bq&atmo=OsKsx2bq&pg=/et/97/12/16/ecspy16.html

Greetings from Germany
Rolf G. Wilmink
MK-W Security and Investigations
Member: BID, NAIS, WAD
www.mknet.de/mkw
mkw-detective@t-online.de
-- 

=====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos==============
.+.^.+.|  Ray Arachelian    |Prying open my 3rd eye.  So good to see |./|\.
..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were      |/\|/\
<--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run  |\/|\/
../|\..| "A toast to Odin,  |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/.
.+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were....            |.....
======================= http://www.sundernet.com ==========================





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC 
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 05:55:44 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Prologue 2/0 / Space Aliens Hide My Drugs
Message-ID: <009C217C.9FF29980.11@west.cscwc.pima.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS !!!???!!! / Prologue 2/0

If This Is Sunday, I must be Toto:
[Was: Oh, what a Lucky man he Was:]
  It was only the third CypherPunks physical meeting I had attended 
and, as usual I spent the whole time watching from a distance, this 
time with Bianca watching me from a distance, to see who was watching 
me from a distance.
  The cellular rang.

  "Toto?"
  "Yes..."
  "You must be TruthMonger, today, because CJ just told Lucky Green 
that *he* is Toto."
  "OK. I guess it must be because he's so used to being Toto on the 
weekends, when he has to be back in the Home on Monday morning."
  "Bye."
  "Bye, dear." I hung up the phone.

  CJ doesn't get out a lot (pun intended).
  Normally, Bianca and I would have objected to him attending a 
CypherPunks physical meeting, but, since most of us have gone to 
ground recently, we thought there would be little danger in finding 
out what reaction his presence would elicit in certain individuals 
known to have so little sense as to be willing to be publically 
associated with Radical Anarchists who are too old and wise to merely 
be pretentious poseurs, and who actually have the knowledge, skills 
and experience to pose a serious threat to NWO plans to bring the 
Brave New Digital World into a state of CyberStatism.
  Thus, after clothing him in a manner that would make it obvious to 
anyone nervous about his appearance and demeanor that he was not 
likely to be carrying any concealed weapons of mass destruction, we 
ascertained that he had already 'gone potty' and sent him off to the 
C2Net offices in Oakland to act as our WeatherMan and ascertain which 
direction John Gilmore, et al, were blowing.

  Those who know CJ Parker only as a person who, after years of 
working in some of the most technologically advanced areas of the 
computer industry, still refers to a hard drive as "...the 
whatchamacallit...you know, the thing that spins around inside and 
you keep all of your information on it..." often fail to understand 
his usefulness to us a fount of information in regard to the subtle 
nuances that most people fail to pick up on in the busy madness of 
daily activity and social interaction.
  Although superficially inept and ill-equipped for life as we know 
it, those capable of seeing beyond the Veil of Maya recognize that, 
although he may be incapable of brain-registering whether or not the 
woman he has loved and lived with for a quarter of a century wears 
glasses, he has the ability to read the soul and psyche of those whom 
he only meets in passing, on the highways, byways, sidestreets and 
alleys of life.

  I originally thought that he was a totally useless conduit for 
information which needed to be gleaned in a reconnaisance mission 
type of manner. 
  It was one of Bianca's pre-teen computer neophytes who explained to 
me, "It's no use asking him any questions. If you ask him to estimate 
the numbers of at a meeting that thirty people attended, you will get 
an answer ranging between five and a hundred. If you want to find out 
things that even God doesn't know, you just have to make a statement 
that points to something which is likely to be totally untrue. He's 
the TruthMonger, you know."
  For some strange reason, children seem to have little trouble 
instinctively understanding the things that CJ discusses, even if 
they seem to be random, insane blatherings dealing with things far 
beyond the knowledge and experience one would expect a child to have 
had contact with thus far in life.

  "I bet everyone at the CypherPunks meeting was wearing blue socks." 
I told CJ after we met back in Berkeley at his sister's house.
  "No," he replied, "there was a lady wearing interesting jeans, who 
used to be the lover, or something, of one of the men there, and 
seemed to be temporarily in need of a lot of intellectual/emotional 
reassurance about her value and competency because of spending so 
many years of being a female with a brain in a penis-dominated 
industry."
  I now know CJ well enough that I realized that I had only to make 
one more false assumption, even though it was perfectly logical, in 
order to elicit a mountain of information about what took place, even 
though it was unlikely that he remembered, even vaguely, what the 
meeting had been about, from a normal point of view.
  "She spent a lot of time discussing various things with him?" I 
asked.
  "No." CJ replied, looking at me like I had just fallen off the 
turnip truck and had no idea how life really worked. "She barely paid 
any attention to him, and only spoke a few words to him at the end of 
the meeting."
  Moving right along, as if this statement clarified the foundation 
upon which he was basing this information, he proceeded to give us a 
full account of the meeting. An account which we knew would be 
totally accurate, once we had sifted out the parts which existed only 
in his own mind, since they would have made the experience so much 
more interesting and full of 'joi de vivre' if they *had* actually 
happened. (e.g. "...and every time Greg Broiles left the room, they 
would stop whatever they were discussing, and tell lawyer jokes until 
he got back. They've obviously been doing that for years, and he's 
never suspected.")

Random Excerpts From the ClueServer With One 512K Memory Bank:
  "I got to tell Peter Trei that his stuff kicks butt!"

  "Lucky Green and Bill Stewart are wearing the opposite bodies in 
real life that they have in my mind from knowing them on the 
CypherPunks mailing list."

  "The broads were phenomenal. I always figured that it would not be 
a mistake to marry any of the women on the CypherPunks list, sight 
unseen, and I knew I was right just by looking at them.
  "Oh...and when they talked, it wasn't like it burst the bubble of 
some sort of fantasy, or something...they were still like that."  
 {This is the statement that had Bianca snortling and giggling so 
hard that she was drooling on herself and blowing foam out of her 
nostrils. Later, she commented, "That was an example of the types of 
things he would say when I first met him that convinced me what a 
boorish, chauvanistic asshole he was, until I would think about them 
later and realize how sensitive and romantic they were if you really 
thought about what he was saying.")

  "Sameer sure looked at me funny. I guess he might have thought I'd 
just knocked off Billy Gates, and that he was next on the list.
  "I kind of wondered why, until I realized that we never really say 
anything nice about him to balance out all the bad shit we lay on him 
in our Dark Forces conspiracy theories, so that the people who fuck 
with us are less likely to fuck with him.
  "Shit, he's the guy who is taking all of the stuff that the 
idealists and theorists in cryptoanarchy are talking about and 
spreading it out in the real world where money and product rule the 
roost of results.
  "Oh, Yeah! That reminds me...
  "The only time I talked was when Eric Hughes was talking about 
Linux and saying the same bullshit that we all listened to--and said 
ourselves--decades ago, about UNIX. You know, about how UNIX should 
be ruling the world, instead of DOS, only now it's Linux, instead of 
Windows. Except it wasn't bullshit, then or now, except that what 
Hughes was saying was as true as what we used to say, and there isn't 
time anymore to go through this shit more times until we get it 
right, so I knew I had to ask what would make it turn out different 
this time.
  "I couldn't resist stepping on a few corns to see who was cool and 
who wasn't so I phrased my question to throw a little praise in 
Micro$not's direction. I mentioned that UNIX failed to take the hill 
even back when DOS sucked, big-time, and asked how it would be 
possible to do so with Linux, now that BadBillyG had a product that 
was actually functional, and worked, for the most part.
  "I was kind of disappointed in the answers, although I realized 
later that the only comments that came out were the knee-jerk 
reactions of those who had spent years in the industry being tortured 
by having to work with, or live in the shadow of, a primitive M$ 
operating system designed to torture people who actually wanted to 
make computers do something useful.
  "Some of them were very quiet and went inside their heads when I 
asked my question. Probably because its the kind of question you have 
to ask and answer for yourself, usually when you're laying awake in 
bed at four in the morning.
  "Actually, though, Eric Hughes, before I asked it, or afterwards, I 
don't really know, gave what is probably the only real answer, 
although some of us said it way back when, probably even him, but 
maybe we all just need to understand why it is the real answer. He 
said that it was up to people such as those gathered in that room, 
that day, to write the programs and make the links to existing 
software, systems and protocols that would provide end-users with the 
tools that they needed for Linux to legitimately serve their needs.
  "He might have also said that we/they would need to be prepared to 
do it regardless of whether or not it had any immediate or long-term 
financial payoff/incentive for us/them, but even if he didn't, I 
heard that in what he said, and I'm sure most of the others did, 
too."
  "Anyway, saying something nice about Micro$not in that room was as 
much fun as seeing the reaction at a wedding when you crap on the 
wedding cake."

  "I think I comported myself very well, even though it meant 
breaking my promise to my nephew to ask all of the CypherChicks 
whether or not they were wearing panties."

And In Case You Were Thinking About Filing the Preceding In The 
'Humor' Directory:
   Anyone at that CypherPunks physical meeting who failed to think 
seriously about the question CJ posed, either at the time, or later, 
upon reflection, is either an idiot, or quite possibly just too young 
to have been through more than a single "War to end all wars."

  Bianca told me that Lucky Green had mentioned to CJ that he had 
read "The Xenix Chainsaw Massacre" and had made a comment to the 
effect that he didn't really understand what it was, or was supposed 
to be, about. She said that she suspected that the reason for this 
was along the lines of the current status of such works as "1984," 
"Animal Farm" and "Brave New World."
  "1984," for example, is no longer some futuristic tale of a dark 
and menacing fate which may someday befall all of society and 
mankind. Rather, it contains a plethora of evil scenarios which have 
not only come to pass, but which have been realized more completely 
and in a more technologically effecient manner that the author could 
possibly have conceived of.
  Having grown up in an era when many of these futuristic projections 
were already a fait accompli, or in the beginning stages of becoming 
so, I sometime would reflect on how the work would have affected 
those who had read it decades before, when it was originally written. 
What parts seemed as if they might be whisperingly prophetic? What 
parts seemed to be semi-real fantasies about what might occur if the 
whole world went to hell in a handbasket? What parts seemed to be 
totally ludicrous scenarios which were the product of an author with 
too much time on his hands, and an overactive imagination?
  Now I wonder how the Chainsaw Massacre is perceived by those whose 
experience of 'the way things are, and always have been' encompasses 
many of the things which TXCSM had portrayed as dark undercurrents 
swirling about in the vortex of a rapidly spinning new technology.

  Undoubtedly the answer to that question is as multi-faceted and as 
context-dependent as a question asking "Who are you?"
  When the son of gomez describes computers that know all, see all, 
and can spit out the names of the miscreants at the speed of light, 
in order to dispose of them before the battle for the souls of all 
mankind begins, it must assuredly be read and understood differently 
by one whose elders told them tales about the great battles they 
fought to win the 'equal rights' and 'anti-discrimination' battles of 
recent eras, than by one whose elders described to them the dark 
terror of living in fear of being discovered for not wearing the 
yellow star which signified that the identification papers they were 
required to present to those in authority should be checked against 
the list of those to be bundled in cattle-cars which reeked of 
oppression and death, separated from their loved ones and sent to 
far-away labor camps.

  The morning after CJ had spoken to Lucky, Bianca woke in the wee 
hours to find him lying in bed and thinking, not having slept all 
night. She quiety asked him what it was he was thinking about. I 
heard his reply from the next room.
  The words he spoke, in a soft and quietly accepting tone, sent 
shivers down my spine, and left me with much to contemplate as I lay 
awake for some time before drifting off back to sleep.

  "Lucky is a nice kid. He's got bounce in his step and a gleam in 
his eye. He's got the world by the tail and every reason to believe 
that doing what he loves and living life with high standards and 
moral certitude will lead to a future where light will rule over 
darkness, and children will have a reason to smile.
  "I hope he's right. I desperately hope that he's right."
  "I want him to live in a world where "WebWorld & The Mythical 
Circle of Eunuchs" isn't prophetic. Where it is just an interesting 
story about how life could have been if the whole world turned to 
shit.
  "I don't want him to live in a world where, in the end, he ends up 
saying, as in the Prologue to 'WebWorld'--'If only we had known...'"

  "What Eric Hughes said at the CypherPunks meeting made me feel like 
it was 'Deja vu, all over again.' as Yogi Berra used to say.
  "He could well have been Bubba Rom Dos, speaking at the original 
meeting of the Circle of Eunuchs, telling those gathered, 'It's up to 
you. *You* need to pick up the torch. *You* need to write the 
code--to do the groundwork and light the way for those who will come 
after you. *You* need to do it, not for fame, fortune, or profit, but 
simply because it is right, and because it needs doing.'"

  "Linux isn't going to win out because it's the best. And it's not 
even going to be the best unless those who know its value and its 
capabilities *make* it the best for those who will never know or 
understand it, but will only know whether or not it serves them and 
suits their needs.
  "And it's not just Linux. The same goes for all of the other tools 
and trappings of future technolgy--censorware, encryption, monitoring 
tools, anonymity, identity based data-gathering."
  "The masses will use what they are given, what works best for them. 
They will take the easiest road, for the most part, as we all do in 
matters which we cannot control for ourselves. The masses aren't 
crying out for filtering software which will allow their children 
only to access a limited and prejudicial view of the world they live 
in--they are using it because that is what is being made available."

  "The same idealistic computer cowboys and self-proclaimed elitest 
programming gurus who decry the fact that the 'sheeple' are not 
willing to become computer experts in order to make use of what is 
'freely available' would be outraged if an airline company denied 
them a ticket because they didn't have a pilot's license, or didn't 
know from memory where all of the emergency exit doors are on a 
DC-7."

  "I shouldn't have been nice to Lucky. When he told me that he 
didn't understand 'The Xenix Chainsaw Massacre,' I should have 
grabbed him by the throat, thrown him against the wall, slapped him 
silly, and said, 'Read it again, you dumb bastard! It's about you. 
It's about John Gilmore, Tim May, Sandy Sandfort, Lynne Harrison, 
Hallam-Baker, and everyone else who is still wondering why the fuck 
we're spamming their mailing list with all of this semi-literate, 
mystical garbage about a mythical rag-tag band of lunatics striving 
to fight some nebulous battle between the Forces of Light and the 
Forces of Darkness.'
  "I should have told him, 'It's about the CypherPunks, you 
lame-witted dip-shit! "The True Story of the InterNet" was begun long 
before the CypherPunks even existed, because in order for the future 
of mankind to have any hope of all of surviving the next wave of 
technology with any of true life, liberty and freedom intact, 
individuals and groups like the CypherPunks *had* to come into 
existence.'

   "TXCSM was an allegory for the hackers, crackers, phreaks and 
punks who would have to serve as the soldiers, troops and armies that 
would be willing to leave behind the comfort and security of their 
home and hearth, if need be, to defend CyberSpace from those who 
would use it to rule and conquer all of MeatSpace. It's about the 
lawyers and programmers and middle-managers who abhor the hackers, 
crackers, phreaks and punks, but who are working within the system to 
defend the same ideals and concepts, in their own way.
  "The heros from the beginning of time, to the dark days of 
the Third Reich, were'nt soldiers. They were men, women, and 
sometimes even children, who *became* soldiers of one ilk or another, 
in order to defend themselves, their families and neighbors, their 
fellow humans, from rulers and forces which were striving to bring 
all of humanity under their thumb.
  "The Nazi death camps weren't liberated by soldiers. They were 
liberated by the same kind of people who were imprisoned in them. 
Farmers from Moscow, carpenters from Omaha, accountants from France, 
or Sweden, or Austrailia. People with dark skin or light skin, people 
speaking a multitude of different languages, people who had been 
preparing for war from the moment the dark clouds began forming over 
Europe and people who thrust themselves forward into battles they 
were ill-prepared for, when they realized the terror that lay ahead 
if they failed to resist the dark forces which were prepared to do 
them great harm."

  "The war in CyberSpace may lie in the future, when the majority of 
the masses realize that CyberHitler wants *more* than just 
CyberPoland. When the masses realize that the CyberGestapo aren't 
coming only for the CyberJews.
  "...but the revolution is *now*."

  "God help us all if those present at the CypherPunks meeting don't 
understand the true importance of Eric Hughes, a decade after 'The 
Xenix Chainsaw Massacre' was written, echoing the words of Bubba Rom 
Dos when he said, 'It's up to *you* and *I*.'"
  "God help us all if those involved with Alt2600 believe that they 
are just playing an interesting game of 'good guys versus bad guys,' 
and fail to see that the importance of the guerilla manuals they make 
available on this or that system is not in the affrontery it provides 
to the self-proclaimed, righteous, namby-pamby do-gooders, but to 
make it possible for some child of the future to know how to make a 
molotov cocktail when the Sedona, Arizona, SWAT-Team is preparing to 
assault their home with the heavy artillery proved for them by the 
federal government.
  "God help us all if normal, average, boring mathematicians like 
Peter Trei fail to realize that every line of code they write may 
someday become a chambered round of ammunition that provides the 
final blow which brings down the Great Digital Beast that is destined 
to rule us all if it is able to grow and prosper without resistance."

  "I hope and pray that Lucky Green, and others like him, begin to 
realize that the future is now, and that they *are* the future...that 
we *all* are the future.
  "The revolution is *now*, and *we* are the revolution.
  "If enough people realize that, and write the single lines of code 
with their attitudes, their beliefs, their votes and their actions, 
then maybe 'The True Story of the InterNet' will become just an 
interesting story--a cute fantasy instead of a dark harbinger of the 
future.
  "Maybe the dark clouds gathering over Digital Europe will dissipate 
and the sun will shine through, to make us all laugh at our silly 
fears about bad men and beasts who have dark designs to imprison our 
bodies and minds in physical and digital prisons, and who will 
require us to place a yellow star at the beginning of our email 
address."

  "Am I being silly, again? God, I hope so.  Goodnight, dear..."

[TBC]





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 04:01:37 +0800
To: Eric Cordian 
Subject: Re: The Political Education of Eric Tune
In-Reply-To: <199802200632.AAA01478@wire.insync.net>
Message-ID: <199802201950.LAA16165@netcom17.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



EC
>Kuwait provoked Iraq far more than places like Panama and Grenada have
>provoked the United States, when US forces poured in to remove
>existing governments, and install regimes sympathetic to Washington,
>also killing thousands of uninvolved civilians.
> 
>Then again, perhaps you believed the touching "Baby Incubator" story
>performed by the daughter of the Kuwaiti ambassador for an
>appreciative Congress, who were unaware of who she was, or that she
>was lying through her teeth.  Perhaps you were also unaware that
>American public opinion during the Persian Gulf War was under the
>control of a domestic public relations firm hired by the government of
>Kuwait.

wow!! well said.

a great book that nails this: "toxic sludge is good for you"
about the public relations industry and how it's playing the
tune while rome burns.

>America always manages to find some pretense to fight the wars it
>decides to fight.  Sometimes there is a staged attack, and an
>arrangement for allies to "invite" us into the conflict.  Other times,
>some imagined threat, like the chance that an infant formula factory
>"could be used" to produce material that "might be used" for chemical
>or biological warfare. Most of us who have watched the antics of
>America for more than a few decades see through the transparent
>rhetoric employed in such situations to manufacture public consent.

yes, and the cracks are starting to show-- how about that recent
rally in Ohio or whereever it was in which the audience refused
to stick to the "wag the dog" script? hee, hee. maybe there is
hope for us yet eh? one of the questions: "if other governments
of the middle east have weapons of mass destruction, why
are we singling out iraq?"

>America needs a low-level format.  Soon.

ouch!! that would hurt!!

another problem you don't mention is that the population has let
our own government run away. we send masses tax money but fail
to hold our own government responsible. "I am not responsible"
is the motto of immature children. we have an entire nation
of them, many on this list.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: tcmay@got.net (Tim May)
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 04:43:43 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Making fun of the Postal Service is not allowed
Message-ID: <199802202021.MAA16586@always.got.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Things are really getting whacked out, if what this guy says is true.

(I was partly joking in my comments, but he claims some serious actions
are happening. So much for free speech, once again.)

--Tim



> From: Douglas Begle 
> Newsgroups: ba.mountain-folk,scruz.general
> Subject: Re: Making fun of the Postal Service is not allowed
> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 10:59:03 -0800
> Organization: Sun Microsystems
> Lines: 30
> Message-ID: <34EDD277.DC25199E@sun.com>
> 
> Tim May wrote:
> 
> > It's not the County one has to worry about, it's the U.S. Postal Service.
> >
> > I assume you all saw the proposal that making fun of the Postal Service be
> > made a crime? Seems the USPS is not amused by a computer game called
> > "Going Postal," and wants this game renamed, else they'll file defamation
> > charges.
> >
> > A bit like the head of the American Bar Association telling us a year or
> > so ago that the ABA was considering legal remedies for the epidemic of
> > lawyer jokes.
> >
> > Only in Amerika.
> >
> > --Tim May
> 
> Ha!  so true.  A friend of mine created  the Disgruntled Postal Worker Zone at
> 
> http://www.well.com/user/ecp/index.html
> 
> The USPS issued a cease-and-desist demand.  Twice.  He hasn't.  Twice. I think
> the USPS is still jawing at his lawyer, but he keeps the site updated.
> 
> I bought some of the "Disgruntled?  Ask me."  buttons a while back.  Gems.
> 
> Doug


From owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Sun Feb 22 08:51 SGT 1998
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "J. Adam Hewison" 
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 01:47:49 +0800
To: Fred Cypherpunk 
Subject: Last Chance ...less than 149 copies left! Plus FREE Bonus.
Message-ID: <199802202027.MAA24586@demon.ino.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Dear Fred,

The folks who produce The 1998 ULTIMATE FUTURES TRADING GUIDE,  just 
informed me that they have less than 149 copies available for sale

Check it out at: http://www.marketdepot.com/products/utg/

See what the GUIDE has to say about El Nino ... and what effect it will 
have on the economy and the markets and ultimately your money.

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* Annual Price Projections on Every Major Commodity 
* Seasonal Chart Trends
* El Nino Weather Impact
* 15 Year Historical Chart Reference - New Contracts 
* Hundreds of Essential Fundamental & Technical Charts 
* 233 Commodity Trend Timing Windows
* Key US & International Tables on  Supply, Demand
* Cycle Timing & Anniversary Dates 
* Government Report Dates, Futures & Options Expirations 
* Fundamental & Technical Forecasts    
* And much, much more!

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President of INO Global Markets.

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 03:30:51 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: On War, Legends, and Crypto (fwd)
Message-ID: <199802201934.NAA24685@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 14:06:36 -0500
> From: Anonymous 
> Subject: On War, Legends, and Crypto

Are you proposing that Cypherpunks are the Sheriff and his posse or the
outlaws?

> There is an old story about a band of outlaws in the wild west.  The local
> sheriff and his men had decided to make an example of this group of
> troublemakers, and chased them into their hideout in a cave outside of
> town.

> After a few weeks a man came riding by to tell the Sheriff that the outlaws
> had just robbed a train in the next town, and everyone was wondering what
> the law enforcement idiots were doing guarding an empty cave instead of
> chasing the criminals.
> 
> It seems that the cave had another way out.  Whether or not this story is
> true, it illustrates an important point - The battle which is won, is the
> one not fought.

>From the trainrobbers perspective this is certainly true. From the Sheriff's
perspective it shows the futility of his job if his goal is to stop all
crime.

Are the Cypherpunks here to rob trains or to keep trains from being robbed?



    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |            When a man assumes a public trust, he should            |
   |            consider himself public property.                       |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                      Thomas Jefferson              |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 03:59:51 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: On War, Legends, and Crypto (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199802201934.NAA24685@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <199802202021.PAA05000@users.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In <199802201934.NAA24685@einstein.ssz.com>, on 02/20/98 
   at 01:34 PM, Jim Choate  said:

>Are the Cypherpunks here to rob trains or to keep trains from being
>robbed?

Depends on which pays more at the time. :)

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html                        
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: PATH=C:\DOS;C:\DOS\RUN;C:\WIN\CRASH\DOS;C:\ME\DEL\WIN

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3a-sha1
Charset: cp850
Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000

iQCVAwUBNO3Qro9Co1n+aLhhAQGiWAP+Oat08v1SdnOWU4eeq2NJklfFXciKknd3
Nepys5vvqoSfDZ17HAmTSE42YBas/SZpqiVdr3n402pRrGRg/6Kc0JRxpgirnlNr
uza9I5X790a75sPbl4CLGhxXcY67MTjAMELzDhFu7zeMcbnGSHM8qSFolOLLsypC
JFaI6aLZFR8=
=r01j
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 05:55:01 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: What is the latest version of PGP 5.5.x Biz?
Message-ID: <4b35b9bfbebb51c9c44a07987e2df5d8@anon.efga.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Uh!  All thses different versions floating about!  Can anyone tell me what the
latest version of PGP 5.5 Biz is?
5.5.2 ?  5.5.3?  (Win32 platform)

Thanks in advance









From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Perrin ." 
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 07:16:09 +0800
To: Yankee1428@aol.com
Subject: funny #1
Message-ID: <19980220225404.16861.qmail@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




A guy, a pig, and a dog are the survivors of a terrible shipwreck, and
they find themselves stranded on a desert island.  After being there =
awhile,
they get into a ritual of going to the beach every evening to watch=20
the sun go down.  One particular evening the sky was red with 
beautiful=20
cirrus clouds, the breeze was warm  and gentle - a perfect night for =
romance! =20
Well, that pig started looking better and better and pretty soon the guy 
=

rolled toward thepig and put his arm around it.  The dog was not very=20
happy with this and growled fiercely at the guy, until he removed his =
arm=20
from the pig.  They continued to enjoy the sunsets together, but no more 
=

cuddling.  A few weeks passed by, and lo and behold, there was 
another=20
shipwreck.  The only survivor was a beautiful young woman.  She was in a 
=

pretty bad way when they rescued her and they slowly nursed her back 
to=20
good health.  When she was well enough they introduced her to their=20
evening beach ritual.
It was another beautiful evening, red sky, cirrus clouds, warm gentle
breeze, perfect for romance, the four of them lying there.  The guy
started getting 'those' ideas again, so he leaned over toward the 
girl=20
and said, "Um...would you mind taking the dog for a walk?"




______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Perrin ." 
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 07:17:42 +0800
To: Yankee1428@aol.com
Subject: funny #2
Message-ID: <19980220225636.17947.qmail@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




A man who smelled like a distillery flopped on a subway seat next to a =
priest. =20
The man's tie was stained, his face was plastered with red lipstick, and 
=
a=20
half empty bottle of gin was sticking out of his torn coat pocket.  he =
opened=20
his newspaper and began reading. After a few minutes the disheveled guy 
=
turned=20
to the priest and asked,  "Say, father, what causes arthritis?"
"Mister, it's caused by loose living, being with cheap, wicked women, =
too much=20
alcohol and a contempt for your fellow man."
"Well I'll be damned."  the drunk muttered, returning to his paper.
The priest, thinking about what he had said, nudged the man and =
apologized. =20
"I'm very sorry.  I didn't mean to come on so strong.  How long did you 
=
have=20
arthritis?"
"I don't have it father.  I was just reading here that the Pope does."





______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 07:12:08 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: about AES
In-Reply-To: <199802200515.GAA26034@basement.replay.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 9:15 PM -0800 2/19/98, Anonymous wrote:
>What is the encryption method that thinks to become
>Advanced Encryption Standard (AES)?

The encryption method that "thinks to become Advanced Encryption Standard"
is the Hal 9000 Davomatic Supercryptalyzer. At least he told me he _thinks
to become_.

I suspect others have other ideas, though.

--Klaus! von Future Prime








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Eric J. Tune" 
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 08:01:56 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Diffie-Hellman vs RSA
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980220155427.007c1880@pop3.lvcablemodem.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Can anyone tell me the differences between the Diffie-Hellman algorithm and
the RSA algorithm?  Is one cryptologically better? (DH let's you use 4096
bit keys versus 2048 bit keys for RSA in PGP 5.5).  Thanks for any and all
info.

Eric Tune






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 07:16:50 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re:  Fwd: Big Brother Sees through walls (from the spyking list)
Message-ID: <199802202304.SAA05606@panix2.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



   >   From: sunder 
   >   
   >   1)From: "George Martin" 
   >   Subject: News Release: High-Tech Surveillance
   >   
   >   Here's a sampling of how state and federal agencies are using this
   >   terrifying technology to spy on Americans:
   >   
   >   * In North Carolina, county governments use high-resolution spy satellite
   >   photographs to search for property improvements that might increase
   >   property tax assessments.

Was this cost authorized by taxpayers?

   >   * On the Mexican border, police use a "gamma ray scanner" to check
   >   tanker trucks for contraband, scanning right through the vehicle's metal
   >   sides.

Good!!!

CM excerpt:

#  Those rumor-level stories about our government encouraging
#  drugs to reach the inner cities were weird.
#   
#  Remember, we've been having a Drug War for four decades now.
#   
#  I guess there is a certain logic to it. Obviously the government is into
#  hysteria on the matter: it is then possible that they would want to continue
#  having a drug problem so they could continue the hysteria.
#   
#  Even the Attorney General was drooling over drug forfeiture dollars, to the
#  point of shunting aside other cases.
#   
#   
#  Recently...
#   
#  :   CBS 60 Minutes, Steve Croft reporting.
#  :
#  :   Remember that story of the hero customs agent snagging a tanker truck full
#  :   of cocaine? There is a strange twist to the story.
#  :
#  :   The Federal agent's manager repeatedly tried to interfere with him making
#  :   the bust.
#  :
#  :   The agent's dog had flagged the truck; the agent weighed it and found a
#  :   discrepancy. His manager said it must be in the tires. You can only check
#  :   the tires for drugs he was told.
#  :
#  :   But the agent persisted, and made the bust. His manager let the driver
#  :   of the truck leave. The driver literally fled on foot back to Mexico.
#   
#  What the hell was that about???
#   
#  Was it a single corrupt Federal agent?
#   
#  :   CBS 60 Minutes, Steve Croft reporting.
#  :
#  :   Standing at a fence about a hundred feet from the U.S. Customs lanes,
#  :   Steve Croft and an ex-agent with a walkie-talkie tuned to the right
#  :   frequency began videotaping the border crossings.
#  :
#  :   Truck after truck drove right through the individual Customs lanes,
#  :   not even stopping. "Nafta express lanes" explained the ex-agent.
#  :
#  :   Truck after truck drove straight into the U.S. unmonitored.
#  :
#  :   Then a message came through the walkie-talkie: "We got some cameras
#  :   watching, better get out there and cover traffic".
#  :
#  :   Suddenly several Customs agents came out of the booths and started
#  :   inspecting trucks.
#   
#  That makes at least five people at a minimum!
#   
#  What the hell is going on???
#  
#   
#  IF the rumor is true, THIS looks like it would be the smoking gun.
#   
#  How did our country get so twisted around that they can invade our
#  bodies to drug test, yet allow truck after truck after truck to
#  just wander right in knowing HUGE drug shipment after HUGE drug
#  shipment is crossing? Gosh, there's no drug problem with Mexican
#  police, military and even their president.
#   
#  *   The New York Times, February 19 1997
#  *
#  *   Brig. General Jesus Gutierrez Rebollo, Mexico's top Military Drug War
#  *   point man, was arrested on charges of receiving payoffs from Jaurez
#  *   cartel kingpin Amado Carrillo Fuentes, Defense Minister Enrique Cervantes
#  *   announced.
#  *
#  *   U.S. Drug Czar Gen. Barry McCaffrey had weeks earlier called General
#  *   Gutierrez "a guy of absolute unquestioned integrity."
#   
#   
#  And what if some terrorists wanted to sneak in an atom bomb?
#   
#  Put a NAFTA sticker on it and drive right on in, y'all. Welcome to the USA.
#   
#  If you want to really be certain, hide the A-bomb in a truck full of cocaine.
#   
#  If a terrorist nuclear bomb ever goes off in this country,
#  it drove in from Mexico.
#   
#  Meanwhile, Los Alamos National Laboratories developed technology that
#  allows an officer walking or driving down the street, as shown on MSNBC TV
#  6/9/97 www.TheSite.com, to determine whether anyone on the sidewalk is
#  carrying a gun.
#   
#  The priorities are all out of whack.
#   
#  Apply Military technology towards securing the border, not by spending
#  billions and billions and billions each year to secure each and every
#  one of us.
#   
#  We don't put governing-monitors on all car engines to control speeding.
#  Get an Operations Research clue.
#   
#   
#  Is our government perpetuating the availability of drugs?
#   
#  The 60 Minutes report sure makes it look like it is.
#   
#  How could letting unchecked Mexican truck after unchecked Mexican truck
#  through not be?
#   
#  !   FBI Director Louis J. Freeh, Senate Judiciary Committee, June 4, 1997
#  !
#  !   NEW CORRIDORS HAVE OPENED TO CONTINUE THE FLOOD OF DRUGS INTO AMERICA.
#   
#  No shit, Sherlock!   Ya don't nafta say another word.
#   
#  Every single truck can be checked using Military technology.
#   
#  But no, massive monitoring of people suspected of no crime is the
#  appropriate response.
#   
#  They were just warming us up for the CALEA telephone monitoring bill.
#   
#  ----
#   
#  Here is part of the story on why we let trucks full of cocaine and
#  heroin just roll right into the United States.
#   
#  *   "Diminished U.S. Role Below Border Plays Into Traffickers' Hands"
#  *
#  *   By Molly Moore and John Ward Anderson
#  *   Washington Post Foreign Service
#  *   Sunday, September 8 1996; Page A01
#  *   The Washington Post
#  *
#  *   Due to their new 'Mexicanization policy':
#  *   Mexico became the main gateway into the United States for illegal
#  *   narcotics, with the amount of cocaine making the journey climbing to
#  *   an estimated 210 tons last year.
#  *
#  *   Mexico's drug arrests plunged nearly 65 percent, from 27,369 the year
#  *   before the policy changes to 9,728 last year, according to data that
#  *   the Mexican government supplied to the State Department.
#  *
#  *   Cocaine seizures in Mexico were cut in half, dropping from more than
#  *   50 tons in 1993 to slightly more than 24 tons in each of the last two
#  *   years -- the smallest amounts since 1988, Mexican government figures
#  *   show.
#  *
#  *   The GAO report charges that Mexico's greatest problem is, in
#  *   fact, the "widespread, endemic corruption" throughout its law
#  *   enforcement agencies. Earlier this month, in an indictment of his own
#  *   department, Attorney General Lozano fired 737 members of his federal
#  *   police force -- 17 percent of his entire corps -- saying they did not
#  *   have "the ethical profile" required for the job. In a recent meeting
#  *   with foreign reporters, Lozano said it could take 15 years to clean up
#  *   the force.
#  *
#  *   In November 1993, President Clinton signed Presidential Decision Directive
#  *   No. 14, shifting U.S. anti-drug efforts away from intercepting cocaine as
#  *   it passed through Mexico and the Caribbean, and, instead, attacking the
#  *   drug supply at its sources in Colombia, Bolivia and Peru.
#   
#  The President himself ordered them to stop checking!!! This is in the same
#  leadership vein as Reagan declaring himself a "Contra".
#   
#  And why did President Clinton change strategy?
[snip]


   >   * The Naval Surface Warfare Center has developed an "ion sniffer,"
   >   a metal box that analyzes the chemical makeup of the air -- and can detect,
   >   for example, traces of cocaine through the skin days after drug use.

Bad.

   >   * In Georgia, the state's Department of Revenue will start using
   >   NASA satellites to examine the state's 58,910 square miles for illegal
   >   timber cutting.

Good.

   >   * In New Jersey, California, and other states, police use thermal
   >   imaging devices to scan houses for unusual heat sources that could indicate
   >   indoor marijuana growing operations. Houses can be scanned while police sit
   >   in their cruisers on the street.

Bad.

CM excerpt:

#  Here is a more detailed example of how government expands surveillance
#  (and thus control) in a seemingly never-ending manner...consider this when
#  talking about a National ID Card:
#   
#  Is it okay for the government to look at your property while walking by and
#  if the officer spots marijuana plants growing to get a search warrant?
#   
#  Of course it is.
#   
#  *   "The Right To Privacy", ISBN 0-679-74434-7, 1997
#  *   By Attorneys Ellen Alderman and Caroline Kennedy
#  *
#  *   ...then the Supreme Court ruled that if the yard was big enough that "An
#  *   individual may not legitimately demand privacy for activities conducted
#  *   out of doors in fields," the Court wrote, "except in the area immediately
#  *   surrounding the home."
#  *
#  *   ...then the Supreme Court ruled that a barn sixty yards from a farmhouse
#  *   was too far away from a house to expect privacy.
#  *
#  *   ...then the Supreme Court ruled that aerial surveillance did not constitute
#  *   a Fourth Amendment search.
#  *
#  *   ...then the Supreme Court ruled that a "precision aerial mapping camera"
#  *   that was able to capture objects as small as one-half inch in diameter did
#  *   not constitute a Fourth Amendment search.
#   
#  ...then courts ruled that infrared surveillance of homes was permissible.
#   
#   
#  What is this?
#   
#  *   Subject:      Re: Law Enforcement Aviation
#  *   From:         aufsj@imap2.asu.edu
#  *   Date:         1996/12/27
#  *   Newsgroups:   rec.aviation.military
#  *
#  *   What interests me is how new technologies will be interpreted. I recently
#  *   inquired at the local Law School about the courts views towards the use
#  *   of impulse radar, and they said "Impulse what the heck?"
#  *
#  *   Basically it is a radar that "sees through" things (like, say, your
#  *   house).
#  *
#  *   Their capabilities vary widely, but the feds are already using
#  *   them and I know that Hughes corp. is designing a low-cost set up
#  *   specifically for major police departments.
#  *
#  *   They are driving towards a unit that can be mounted on a police helicopter.
#  *
#  *   Will the police need a warrant? Who knows. Since they are allowed
#  *   to do airborne infra-red analysis of your house, why not an take an
#  *   airborne "x-ray" equivalent?
#  *
#  *   ---------------------------------------------------------------------
#  *   Steven J Forsberg   at  aufsj@imap2.asu.edu              Wizard 87-01


   >   * And in Arizona, the state's Department of Water Resources uses
   >   spy satellite photographs to monitor 750,000 acres of state farmland, and
   >   compares the images to a database to discover which farmers don't have
   >   irrigation permits.

Good, I guess.

   >   Even worse: The federal government will spend another $4.5 million
   >   this year to develop even more intrusive surveillance equipment.

Bad.

   >   Currently under development by the Justice Department: A "super
   >   x-ray" -- combining traditional x-ray technology, ultra-sound imaging, 
   >   and computer-aided metal detectors -- to reveal items hidden under clothes 
   >   from up to 60 feet away.

Bad.

   >   The courts are currently wrestling with the implications of the new
   >   technology, debating the limits of the government's power to "search"
   >   individuals from a distance with high-tech gadgets. Several contradictory
   >   court decisions have already emerged, for example, about whether
   >   thermal-imaging searches are Constitutional.
   >   
   >   Meanwhile, Republican and Democratic politicians continue to look
   >   for new uses of the technology -- with some government officials already
   >   talking about using satellite surveillance to track items as small as
   >   backyard porches to check for zoning violations and construction permits.

Smart cards are transponders.

Never forget that.

   >   "In the name of fighting crime, politicians seem eager to obliterate the
   >   protections against unreasonable search, with equipment that Americans used
   >   to only read about in Tom Clancy technothrillers," said Dasbach. "It's time
   >   for the American public to wake up and realize that Big Brother is here
   >   today -- and he's got a gamma ray scanner in his hand."

No amount of control over the population is enough for the U.S. Government.
---guy





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 08:38:36 +0800
To: Information Security 
Subject: Re:  Five industry giants propose encryption plan to protect Hollywood
In-Reply-To: <199802200635.BAA20101@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <199802210056.TAA07362@users.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In <199802200635.BAA20101@panix2.panix.com>, on 02/20/98 
   at 01:35 AM, Information Security  said:

>   >   Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 11:13:50 -0800 (PST)
>   >   From: William Knowles 
>   >   
>   >   BURBANK, Calif. (February 19, 1998 09:06 a.m. EST
>   >   http://www.nando.net) -- Five computer and electronics industry
>giants
>   >   have agreed on a strategy to prevent people from illegally copying
>   >   digital movies and music, the Los Angeles Times reported Thursday.
>   >    
>   >   According to the proposal, high-definition TV sets, personal
>   >   computers, digital video disc players, digital video cassette
>   >   recorders and set-top boxes would be equipped with technology that
>   >   requires a code before a copyrighted piece of work can be
>transferred
>   >   from one device to another.
>   >    
>   >   It would ensure that someone who watches or listens to digital
>movies
>   >   or music over satellite services, cable networks and the Internet
>   >   won't be able to make copies without permission.
>   >    
>   >   The encryption technique scrambles the copyrighted material in one
>   >   device so it cannot be unscrambled by another device without the
>   >   correct software key.

>It's unscrambled when it is listened to...what are they thinking? ---guy

what they are talking about is *every* VCR, TapeRecorded, ...ect will not
record data that has this security feature without a proper record code.
(keep hold of the old VCR's and Tape Players). Even though the data is
decrypted to be viewed you will still have a stego data channel that will
tell these recording devices to to record.

Will this prevent the professional bootleger from making copies? No. The
finanical incentives for working around these security measures are there
(bootleging is a multi-billion dollor business). What this will do is
prevent you from recording songs off a CD to play on a tape in your car or
prevent you from recording that movie you just watched on PPV.

>   Escpecially regarding computers, this won't work.

Well I have gone over this in previous posts that right's management
woun't work against the bootlegers as at some time you have to display the
raw data to the user. what it will to is make things that much harder for
the average user.

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html                        
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: Windows: The Gates of hell.

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ulf@fitug.de (Ulf =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=F6ller?=)
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 05:57:12 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: "carefully monitor the Internet"
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



   To keep pace with the fast-moving money launders, FAFT said it would
   carefully monitor the Internet and so-called electronic purse systems,
   whereby cash is passed from person to person via electronic chips,
   leaving no audit trail in its wake.

http://www.yahoo.com/headlines/980212/wired/stories/money_2.html
http://www.oecd.org/fatf/





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ulf@fitug.de (Ulf =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=F6ller?=)
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 05:53:08 +0800
To: sunder@brainlink.com
Subject: Re: FWD: Confirmations of Echelon (from Spy King)
In-Reply-To: <34EDA873.83F5A3@brainlink.com>
Message-ID: <9802201745.AA74814@public.uni-hamburg.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> Manchester Omega foundation. The complete report can be found under:
> www.heise.de/tp/deutsch/inhalt/te/1393/anchor1.html

They just copied it from John Young's site, and their copy lacks the
references.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 12:45:15 +0800
To: "William H. Geiger III" 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980220184839.008d4b50@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>   at 03:00 AM, Anonymous  said:
>>Use mail readers that don't automatically process HTML and
>>connect to image servers, accept cookies, or run javascripts.  You are
>>being watched by tricky defective, er, detective types. es.
>
>Several things here:
>
At 02:32 AM 2/18/98 -0500, William H. Geiger III wrote:
>1. HTML in mail:
>There is just no place for this crap in e-mail. If multipart/alternative
>is used it is tolarable but pure text/html messages go into the bitbucket
>with a autoreply explaining to the poster the error of their ways. :)

HTML is a fine format for email.  It's ASCII readable, and supports
content description tags that the user's mail reader can render as
bold/italic/underline/header-levels//color/etc.  It's far superior
to using bloated undocumented Microsoft Word attachments.
95% of the HTML email I get IS spam, but that's a separate problem :-)
(After all, SPAMMERs like bright colored blinking attention-getting mail.)

>2. AutoProcessing of Attachments:
>This is *allways* a BadThing(TM). Not only is it an obvious security risk
>it is a PITA for the user. I would be rally pissed if my mailer launched a
>V-Card app everytime someone thought it was a GoodThing(TM) to add these
>attachments to every message they sent out.

>3. AutoDownloading of Data:
>I imagine what happend here is the internal logic for N$ mailreader when
>processing a html/text e-mail message is to treat it just like a WebPage
>and processes it accordingly.
>IMHO a mail client that is going out to an external site to DL data wether
>it be part of a html/text message or Message/External-Body the mailer
>should prompt the user on wether or not he wishes to retreive the data.

Doesn't even need a prompt - a basic missing-picture icon is fine,
with a load-images command somewhere.  While it's not as dangerous as
auto-processing, autodownloading is annoying, and can be both a
security risk (the auto-outing problem) and a denial-of-service risk.

Needs to be either off by default or not there at all.

>My recomendations is to dump the Netscape garbage and get a real e-mail
>client. Netsacpe has done a good job at screwing up the web we really
>don't need the same favor from them with e-mail.

Netscape mail is adequate for many people, just as Eudora is.
Newer versions are pretty bloated, but including S/MIME mail encryption
for everybody is a Good Thing.
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Eric Cordian 
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 09:20:10 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Diffie-Hellman vs RSA
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980220155427.007c1880@pop3.lvcablemodem.com>
Message-ID: <199802210105.TAA02965@wire.insync.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



"Eric J. Tune"  writes:
 
> Can anyone tell me the differences between the Diffie-Hellman
> algorithm and the RSA algorithm?  Is one cryptologically better? (DH
> let's you use 4096 bit keys versus 2048 bit keys for RSA in PGP 5.5).
> Thanks for any and all info.
 
AltaVista Search (http://altavista.digital.com/)
 
Search [the Web] for documents in [any language]
"RSA algorithm"__________________________________________________
 
1627 documents match your query.
Click here to find related books at amazon.com
 
 
Search [the Web] for documents in [any language]
"Diffie-Hellman"_________________________________________________
 
3426 documents match your query.
Click here to find related books at amazon.com

You're welcome.

--  
Eric Michael Cordian 0+
O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division
"Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"
 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 09:51:32 +0800
To: eristic@gryzmak.lodz.pdi.net (Marek Jedlinski)
Subject: Re: Is spam really a problem?
In-Reply-To: <34eeebcf.17966504@gryzmak.lodz.pdi.net>
Message-ID: <199802210219.VAA07980@users.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In <34eeebcf.17966504@gryzmak.lodz.pdi.net>, on 02/21/98 
   at 12:33 AM, eristic@gryzmak.lodz.pdi.net (Marek Jedlinski) said:

>Tim May wrote:

>If:

>>Indeed, discussion of "what to do about spam?" periodically consumes all of
>>the main lists I'm on. Discussion of spam is worse than the actual spam.

>then:

>Discussion of net abuse is worse than net abuse.
>Discussion of theft is worse than theft.
>Discussion of, hey, abortion is worse than...

>Hear Mister Free-Speech talk, and shudder.

Oh PLEASE! You can't really be that much of a moron can you??

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html                        
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: Don't be held back by yesterday's DOS!  Try today's OS/2!

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Secret Squirrel 
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 05:56:17 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: (none)
Message-ID: <9bd637742d4e1b3e993aef90790ea8ac@squirrel.owl.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



SEND ME CHEESE FOR CRACKERS!!!








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 10:47:15 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Pensacola Police have lost their mind!!
Message-ID: <199802210306.WAA08336@users.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

I don't know if this story has reached the AP wire or not but today the
brave defenders of the faith here in Pensacola, FL have done their sworn
duty to protect us all by arresting a 5yr old on assault charges (againts
one of the Adult staff of the school).

These are the same brave soles who a few months ago when confronted by a
man sitting in his car with a gun to his head solved this problem by
riddeling his car, surrounding buildings, and a McDonalds playground with
over 100 rounds.

As soon as I have some more information on this I will post a full report.

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html                        
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: Windows: The Gates of hell.

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=rLlC
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 12:32:50 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Some children are rabid and need to be put down
In-Reply-To: <199802210309.VAA27046@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 6:29 PM -0800 2/20/98, William H. Geiger III wrote:

>No not at all. We have some serious problems with the County Sherifs
>Department down here.
>

I'm having a hard time understanding all this criticism of the actions.
>From what I've read, the girl bit, scratched, threw chairs, etc.

Many of us think 13- and 14-year-olds who commit murder should be executed
(well, I do), so why should younger children be exempt from legal action?

I know that if a kid was throwing chairs at me I'd be tempted to throw a
punch back...something that is strictly verboten. Lawsuits, criminal
prosecution, never work in the school system again, that sort of verboten.

If a teacher can't defend herself, legally and professionally, from
children biting and throwing chairs, the cops have to be called.

And from what I've heard about this little girl, it's beginning to sound
like she ought to be put down like a dog that can't stop biting. Or at
least kicked out of the school completely...perhaps a reform school will
straighten her out.

--Tim May

Just Say No to "Big Brother Inside"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^3,021,377   | black markets, collapse of governments.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 11:31:40 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Pensacola Police Need a Reality Check
Message-ID: <199802210357.WAA08703@users.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

News Story
Pensacola News Journal
Friday, Febuary 20, 1998

Kindergartner arrested in school scuffle
By Sonja Lewis and Lesley Conn
New Journal Staff Writters

    Her daddy told her it was like finger-painting, but 5 yaer-old
Chaquita Doman was actually being fingerprinted following her arrest
Wednesday and it wasn't fun.
    The Edgewater Elementary kindergarten student was booked on a felony
battery warrant at the Department of Youth Services after scuffling with
her school counselor. Linda green, 51, told Escambia deputies Chaquita bit
and scratched her Feb. 3 when she tried to calm the girl. The warrant for
battery of an elected official or educator was issued the day of the
incident.
    Escambia deputies have never arrested anyone younger, a spokeswoman
said.
    Chaquita's father, Lee Ernest Middleton, said the arrest is the most
ludicrous thing he's ever experienced.
    District spokeswoman Barbara Frye said school officials were making
sure a child with "an-out-of-contorl rage" got some counseling.
    Deputies notified Chaquita's parents Tuesday of the arrest warrant.
Her parents brought her in Wednesday.
    "Can you imagine what it's like to have your daughter fingerprinted
and escorted by a deputy to a juvenile facility?" asked her father.
    Middleton, 35, said he plans to contact a lawer as early as this
morning because of the emotional trauma suffered by his daughter and her
identical twin sister, Shakita.
    He took his daughters out of school Thursday.
    Missing four of her front teeth, Chaquita nodded Thursday that she bit
and scratched someone. "She's good", she said tossing her thumb towards
her twin. "I'm bad".
    Chaquita threw furniture and inflicted at least 27 deep scratches and
bit Green's arm to cause "significant bleeding," Frye said.
    Chaquita was suspended for three days and her parents were asked to
sign a counseling referral slip, Frye said. Because Green wanted the child
to be councled, she called deputies.
    Middleton says he was not asked to sign anything until her suspention
was up. He said he agreed to counseling.
    Because of juvenile protection laws, the State Attorney's Office could
not say what action was taken. But her parents were told there would be no
charges filed, they said.

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html                        
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
  Hi
 
Tag-O-Matic: Don't be held back by yesterday's DOS!  Try today's OS/2!

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 11:01:56 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Pensacola Police have lost their mind!! (fwd)
Message-ID: <199802210309.VAA27046@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: "William H. Geiger III" 
> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 98 20:27:22 -0500
> Subject: Pensacola Police have lost their mind!!

> I don't know if this story has reached the AP wire or not but today the
> brave defenders of the faith here in Pensacola, FL have done their sworn
> duty to protect us all by arresting a 5yr old on assault charges (againts
> one of the Adult staff of the school).

It made it to CNN.

> These are the same brave soles who a few months ago when confronted by a
> man sitting in his car with a gun to his head solved this problem by
> riddeling his car, surrounding buildings, and a McDonalds playground with
> over 100 rounds.
> 
> As soon as I have some more information on this I will post a full report.

Their story was that the child had a behavioral problem and the parents
refused to get counceling when the school requested. She apparently goes on
room smashing temper tantrums on a regular basis. The father of the child
said it was the most ludicrous thing he had ever heard of, reportedly.

Can't say that changes the situation a heck of a lot though...


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |            When a man assumes a public trust, he should            |
   |            consider himself public property.                       |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                      Thomas Jefferson              |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 14:43:36 +0800
To: "Eric J. Tune" 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980220212147.008be2a0@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>>What the world needs now is not another mass killing of Iraqis by the
>>United States government.  What the world really needs now is a fifty
>>dollar weapon that sinks aircraft carriers.

The Stinger missile and the bazooka have been a good start, letting 
local defenders stop the expensive tools of attacking armies.

At 08:42 PM 2/19/98 -0800, Eric J. Tune wrote:
>>> These soldiers went where they were ordered to go, as befits a soldier,
>>> and tried to do the job they were given and accomplish the mission, and
>>> for that EVERY ONE OF THEM DESERVES Y O U R RESPECT.  I am quite sure
>>> the vast majority of them thought it was patently stupid to go to
>>> Somalia in the first place, but a soldier follows orders, legal ones,
>>> and tries to get the job done regardless of personal feelings.

Following stupid orders gets your fellow soldiers killed stupidly.
Following immoral orders gets your fellow soldiers killed, and gets the 
opposing soldiers killed, and gets the civilian collateral damage killed,
and the fact that you're following orders doesn't absolve you of guilt.
Once you're in the war, you're also fighting to keep your buddies from
getting killed, and to keep from getting killed yourself, and if the
orders are tactically correct and sacrifice you and your buddies as
the price of an overall victory, that's the price of being a soldier.
But if you shouldn't be there, you shouldn't be there, no matter how
competent and brave and patriotic you're being while you're there.
Most soldiers I've known believe in following orders, and the politicians
who send them there pull out all the stops to keep them believing it.

>Listen up jerk, in case you didn't get any news during 1990, Iraq attacked
>Kuwait, and murdered thousands of Kuwaitis. ... America would have never
>been involved if Iraq hadn't invaded Kuwait.  

Yeah?  In 1980, Iraq attacked Iran, and the US sold them weapons,
and Saddam was Reagan & Bush's good buddy and ally.  And in 1990
when Saddam was talking with the US Ambassador about their border problem,
she said the US had no interest in such a purely local problem.
OK, it wasn't like we had to twist Saddam's arm to get him to invade;
he is a militarist asshole - but in 1980 that was a Good Thing.
And in 19{pick a number} Israel invaded South Lebanon - Good Thing Too!

Is it possible that it's got a lot more to do with US Foreign policy
or geopolitical interests?  Or about the fact that the US Military-
Industrial Complex was severely threatened by the lack of Commies?
Or just partly because George Bush's Neilsen ratings were down
and he'd had good results invading Panama?  Or that the Ayatollah
had gotten rid of one of America's favorite dictators in Iran
just a year or two before (even though he disliked Commies too)?
Or because the US Army wanted to make sure everybody knows that
they can kick anybody's ass, anywhere, anytime?

In the process of demolishing Iraq, Bush's army killed hundreds of
thousands of civilians, demolishing much of the civilian infrastructure
for safe drinking water (which probably killed more people than
the bombing did), as well as killing tens of thousands of
draftee soldiers.  If the objective had been to get rid of Saddam,
a couple dozen good Mossad agents or Green Berets could have
taken him out quickly and efficiently.  That wasn't the objective.

> I don't think air strikes are the answer to this, and I think 
> Clinton is a moron for his present policy,

He's a sleaze, but no moron - his objectives are maintaining his own
political influence, which he's very good at, as opposed to doing
anything positive for the Kuwaitis or Iraqis or Americans....

>Evidently, you again know nothing of what the Iraqis did to the Kuwaitis on
>their way in to Kuwait.  Get educated, shithead. 
Probably about like what they did to the Iranians or what the
Israelis did to the South Lebanese, except that it was Bad instead of Good.

>To everyone else besides Cordian who reads this, my apologies, but for all
>it's failings, I still have pride in America... ...not for all the foreign
>policy bullshit or the way the government fucks us over, or starts wars, or
>sticks their collective nose in other countries business...but for the fact
>that as a whole people, Americans still keep trying, everyday, to be a
>better people. I'm proud of that.

I agree.  And telling the government to stop initiating wars and trying
to get the people not to jump in line behind a propaganda bandwagon
are a good part of trying to be a better people.
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 11:39:06 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: Pensacola Police have lost their mind!! (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199802210309.VAA27046@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <199802210406.XAA08800@users.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In <199802210309.VAA27046@einstein.ssz.com>, on 02/20/98 
   at 09:09 PM, Jim Choate  said:

>Their story was that the child had a behavioral problem and the parents
>refused to get counceling when the school requested. She apparently goes
>on room smashing temper tantrums on a regular basis. The father of the
>child said it was the most ludicrous thing he had ever heard of,
>reportedly.

Well sounds like we are getting some CYA spindoctoring going on now that
there is National Attention. None of the early reports had any mention of
a cronic behavior problem. I posted the article from our local paper in a
seperate post.

>Can't say that changes the situation a heck of a lot though...

No not at all. We have some serious problems with the County Sherifs
Department down here.

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html                        
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
  Hi
 
Tag-O-Matic: If Windows sucked it would be good for something.

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 11:26:48 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Anthrax suspect predicts attack on US [CNN]
Message-ID: <199802210335.VAA27136@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Subject: http:--www.cnn.com-US-9802-20-anthrax.arrests-

>                MAN SUSPECTED OF HAVING ANTHRAX PREDICTED ATTACK
>        
>      February 20, 1998
>      Web posted at: 10:15 p.m. EST (0315 GMT)
>      
>      LAS VEGAS, Nevada (CNN) -- A man arrested on charges of possessing
>      what is believed to be the deadly toxin anthrax predicted on a radio
>      talk show the day before his arrest that the United States would be
>      the target of a major biological attack within two years.
>      
>      Tuesday, Larry Wayne Harris, speaking on Talk America Radio
>      Network's "The Buck Stops Here," gave a detailed description of what
>      he said was a plot involving more than 200 "sleeper cells" of Iraqi
>      students poised to unleash anthrax and bubonic plague bacteria on
>      the American people.
>      
>      "The odds of us making it through even the end of this century
>      without a major biological incident are very low," Harris said.
>      
>      Harris, 46, and William Leavitt Jr., 47, were arrested Wednesday
>      night in a Las Vegas suburb after an informant called the FBI to
>      report the two men told him they had anthrax. They are being held at
>      the Clark County Detention Center.
>      
>      Laboratory test results to determine whether a substance seized was
>      in fact anthrax were delayed Friday. No reason was given. 
>      
>   Leavitt's attorney: Tests will be negative
>   
>      
>      
>      Leavitt's attorney, Lamond Mills, said in an interview with CNN in
>      Las Vegas he believes the tests will prove negative.
>      
>      "On Monday, I think the test results will be in and show that it's
>      non-toxic, and they're going to have to stand up and acknowledge
>      that. And their case is going to be flushed," Mills said.

[text deleted]


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |            When a man assumes a public trust, he should            |
   |            consider himself public property.                       |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                      Thomas Jefferson              |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 14:43:08 +0800
To: "Attila T. Hun" 
Subject: Re: putting down the US military
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980219140712.007bda40@pop3.lvcablemodem.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980220214430.008be9a0@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>>PEOPLE DIED IN SOMALIA, including a personal friend of mine. 
>> They were all somebody's son, brother, and friend  [snip]
>    my oldest son's LAR recon/black unit had been stood down for
>    Somalia, gear turned in, etc.  
...
>    how do you think the all the families with sons, husbands,
>    lovers, siblings, etc. felt with the spectacle of a dead

Sorry to hear about your friend, and I'm glad your son got back.
A friend of mine lives in Somalia about half the time,
except when his wife's tribe's over in Ethiopia.  They've been through
years of civil war, in a society that until the colonialists
took over was extremely free and relatively peaceful (for a bunch of 
semi-nomadic cattle herders armed to the teeth like pre-industrial Swiss;
they tend to have occasional short armed squabbles when the
normal social structures for peacefully resolving differences fail)
and the wars for control of the post-colonial government have
made it impossible for their economy to do well during drought.

Michael's friends were quite pleased at kicking the UN's butts,
and at kicking the US Army's butts, but they thought that even
if there hadn't been a civil war going on, the idea of trying to 
disarm Somalis is blatantly foolish - you'd have better luck
trying to disarm an NRA convention, where people carry guns for fun
rather than to protect their families and livestock like Somalis.
After all, most NRA members believe in Nations and Governments;
Somalis believe in their families and tribes and the Law,
and any "leader" who expects blind obedience from his followers
quickly finds out that nobody's following him.

...
>    absolutely. misplaced criticism and a personal offense to me
>    as well as all other servicemen.

Sending US soldiers in to do a fool's errand like that should
offend you even more.   And telling a free people that they should
give up the guns they protect their families with because
the UN will take care of protecting them is an offense to them.
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 11:40:25 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: On War, Legends, and Crypto (fwd)
Message-ID: <199802210345.VAA27317@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 22:31:16 -0500
> From: Anonymous 
> Subject: Re: On War, Legends, and Crypto (fwd)

> I was suggesting that when finding oneself in a conflict with LEOs, it is
> better to be in the position of a trainrobber hiding in a cave with a
> backdoor, rather than in the position of someone getting bombed in their
> house at Waco or Ruby Ridge.

True, but the Waco and Ruby Ridge incidents aren't equivalent. In neither
case were the people involved committing aggregious crimes nor were they
expecting to be attacked by massed forces.

I suspect that implicit with the premeditated train robbery is the
expectation of pursuit.

> You are always better off if you can show your opponent the futility of
> his goal.

I don't remember the date, but....

During the American Civil War, Lincoln and his wife were having dinner with
several other government and military persons. During the dinner a
discussion arose about the best way to end the war. After much discussion
and depracation of the South Lincoln spoke. The gist of his rebuttal was
that the *best* way to win a war was to make the enemy your friend.


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |            When a man assumes a public trust, he should            |
   |            consider himself public property.                       |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                      Thomas Jefferson              |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 14:43:06 +0800
To: Tim May 
Subject: Re: SF Chronicle on Sen. Dianne Feinstein: "Feinstein Offline"
In-Reply-To: <199802200032.TAA28422@users.invweb.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980220215127.008be2a0@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 04:33 PM 2/19/98 -0800, Tim May wrote:
>At 2:55 PM -0800 2/19/98, William H. Geiger III wrote:
>>>She's a buffoon who is probably the first one who'll be sent to the wall
>>>if there's ever a Second American Revolution.
>>Third. We had a Second American Revolution and we lost.
>You're quite right...I stand corrected.
>
>Though in some sense it was a "secessionist movement," which is subtly
>different from a revolution. 

We've had bunches of local ones - Shay's Rebellion, the Whiskey Rebellion.
There was a big secession followed by a reconquest, but that wasn't
really a revolution.  There were a bunch of events like Wounded Knee
in which our conquered neighbors tried to fight back and lost.


				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 14:45:55 +0800
To: Declan McCullagh 
Subject: Re: Should the Feds ban spam? (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199802151940.NAA25592@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980220221605.008be2a0@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim wrote:
>>Absolutely they do, but the right is that *they* must do the filtering and
>>*not* the ISP (it's a business and doesn't have fundamental rights).

At 05:00 PM 2/15/98 -0500, Declan McCullagh wrote:
>1. No, they can delegate that authority to the ISP. This is part of the
>freedom to contract.

Yeah.  Netcom doesn't have the right to decide what I'm allowed to read,
but it can decide what materials that it will transmit, if it wants,
and I can decide whether to do business with them, if I want.
Two of the ISPs I use for receiving email offer spam-filtering services;
I'm not currently buying either of them, but if spam goes from
5% to 50% of my mail, I'll certainly consider it.
(And one of them gives a summary of what it's blocked, which is good.)
Ray Arachelian and Eric Blossom can't decide what messages on Cypherpunks 
I'm allowed to read, but they can offer the most interesting 5-10%
and maybe I'll use their editing capabilities instead of reading the
whole firehose myself.  (I alternate between FCPUNX and the full list.)

>2. People acting together have rights. A corporation is an artificial legal
>construct, but a necessary one, and it has rights. Think of The New York
>Times Co. and the First Amendment.

Corporations aren't a necessity, just a convenience; the big
law firms and accounting firms are all partnerships, and do just fine
without being corporations.  Corporations do have artificial rights,
but as constructs of the state, the state can decide which rights to
give them and which rights not to give them in return for the favor
of granting corporate charters.

But Jim should know better than to say that businesses don't have rights.
Businesses are activities that people engage in, either as individual
proprietors, or as contractors, or as partnerships, or as employees,
or as corporations.  One of my ISPs is a sole proprietor, though he's
now got an employee or two.  Doesn't diminish his rights any.
Another of my ISPs is a corporation; they're big and clumsy,
but I can still hire them to perform services for me, including
editing if I want to.


>>No true Libertarian would allow any 3rd party to censor or limit the
>>information available to them.  Such actions are fundamentally 
>>non-libertarian which believes in individual choice.

Nonsense - there's far more stuff written every day than you or I
have time to read; even on Usenet, I had to stop reading every
newsgroup sometime around 1984 (a few years before Henry Spencer stopped :-)
Depending on other people to find interesting stuff is necessary;
the question is how you pick your sources and filters,
and how much you trust them to tell you everything.

>>Oh really? It is clear from many examples that the press is not to be
>>trusted because of its interactions in past political and criminal episodes.

Of course they're not - do you think anybody actually believes everything 
they read or see on TV (well, yeah, there seem to be people who do :-)
If you want to be well-informed, you need lots of sources;
one of the cool things about the net is that you _can_ get
lots of information that seldom got through the official channels
before.  Some of it didn't get through because it didn't match
the political biases of the editors or newspaper corporate owners;
other stuff didn't get through because it was boring or bogus,
and if you're filtering all the news yourself, you'll need to
do your own guessing and fact-checking.


				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 11:29:23 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: On War, Legends, and Crypto (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199802201934.NAA24685@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




> From the trainrobbers perspective this is certainly true. From the Sheriff's
> perspective it shows the futility of his job if his goal is to stop all
> crime.
> 
> Are the Cypherpunks here to rob trains or to keep trains from being robbed?


I was suggesting that when finding oneself in a conflict with LEOs, it is
better to be in the position of a trainrobber hiding in a cave with a
backdoor, rather than in the position of someone getting bombed in their
house at Waco or Ruby Ridge.

You are always better off if you can show your opponent the futility of
his goal.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 14:43:18 +0800
To: Declan McCullagh 
Subject: Re: Should the Feds ban spam? (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199802152236.QAA26477@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980220223638.008be2a0@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>At 16:36 -0600 2/15/98, Jim Choate wrote:
>>Newspaper editors work according to policies and trusts empowered by the
>>owners of the paper. They are allowed as a function of the views of the
>>owners to express that choice as an *employee* of those owners. Those
>>policies do not apply to the readers as would happen in the case of an ISP.
>>Unless you propose that each person should have multiple accounts at
>>multiple ISP's.

At 06:43 PM 2/15/98 -0500, Declan McCullagh wrote:
>This is so incoherent that it's not possible to turn into a positive statement.

I found it pretty easy to parse, though incorrect -
Jim assumes that each person will only deal with one ISP,
and that getting spam filtering from that ISP means turning
over control of all your incoming mail/news to the ISP.
It's a bad assumption (even if I'm mistaken in claiming Jim assumes it :-)
-- of course everybody should have multiple Internet service providers.
As a Silicon Valley geek, I deal with several different ISPs offering
dialup IP service, not counting my employer's dial and LAN access,
or Metricom if I get it, but for most people, that's an exception.

Dialup IP packet forwarding isn't the only service provided on the Net!
I subscribe to a bunch of mailing lists, 
and even if I used an ISP that provided filtering services, 
I'd expect it to leave the mailing list traffic alone 
(and expect some of the lists to try and reduce spam sent to the list.)  
I also use a couple of mail forwarders - I advertise pobox.com,
since it's convenient to have a permanent address even if I change ISPs.
Occasionally I'll use a nymserver if I want to keep separate
reputations, or an anonymous remailer for non-persistent or
non-replyable email services.  Pobox offers spam filtering,
and while I don't use it, I think it's the service that
gives you a summary of all the email it rejected if you want,
which makes it much more likely that I'd buy such a service.

I've found that almost all the mail I get addressed directly to 
my netcom address is spam (some of it's mail from real people 
with my old address, or mailing lists I haven't reconfigured yet.)
It's convenient to be able to tell, just as I know that
junk snailmail addressed to "Wired Stewart" is from the
subscription I had a few years ago...

I also have a couple of free services that I play with, and one 
of my cats has a Juno account she's been using to experiment 
with remailers on.   And for new people getting on the net,
it really makes sense to use hotmail or juno for a while
until you know what you're doing, so you don't have spam
following you around your whole life.
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 12:45:20 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Some children are rabid and need to be put down (fwd)
Message-ID: <199802210451.WAA27987@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 20:30:43 -0800
> From: Tim May 
> Subject: Some children are rabid and need to be put down

> I know that if a kid was throwing chairs at me I'd be tempted to throw a
> punch back...something that is strictly verboten. Lawsuits, criminal
> prosecution, never work in the school system again, that sort of verboten.

Let me get this straight, you would punch a 5 year old child?

Tim, you truly have my sympathy and I sincerely hope that someday you deal
with whatever it is that drives that sense of personal injustice and anger.


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |            When a man assumes a public trust, he should            |
   |            consider himself public property.                       |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                      Thomas Jefferson              |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 12:07:15 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: putting down the US military
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980221040626.00742578@pop.pipeline.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



It's easy to fault the military as an organization, as easy as
with any other. Most of us have had enough experience with
them to know what Dilbert knows, even if we can't quip like
the master.

What's hard is to know the unexplainable of combat and
be unable to convey what it's like to those who haven't
had the peculiar disorientation of losing whatever ability 
you've ever had to tell the difference between living and 
dying.

No book or film or general has ever got right, nor any tale told 
by skulled out vets sober or not.

What's never told is what it's like to lose control of mind and
body for days weeks and months. Maybe it can't be told, 
can't be remembered, can't be related in normal ways of 
communicating. Maybe that's why some of the best war
stuff is created by those who've never been there.

Enduring an artillery barrage is beyond comprehension, your
body goes to pieces under the crushing sound and concussion,
and involuntary reactions overwhelm the normal controls of all
organs and orifices. Every part goes haywire, beyond stopping,
everybody on the scene can't help becoming beaten meat
flopping and scrambling to get underground, trying to scream
amidst god's loudest roar of thunder and screeching richocheting
metal.

Bombing is far worse than that.

Even the hit of high speed round will hydraulic-ram your blood into
parts of your carcass it was never meant to go, and your senses
go numb with shock, and nothing works, body or mind. And that's
before you become conscious enough to see the savagery the 
slug's done to your precious gut, arm, leg, crotch -- if it didn't
fly through your helmet and skull leaving you permanently
satisfied.

There's no way to get ready for the worst you'll ever experience
and wish you hadn't. Maybe that's why most vets forget what
they actually experienced and fall back on the tired and true lies
of war stories. Nobody could possibly believe the other if you
could manage to tell the truth, which I doubt anybody's got the
courage to do, to relive that, when every instinct of survival 
is to go blank.

Which is why you'll see now and then some who just sit and stare 
a long way past the horizon, like math geniuses in Princeton deep
thought.

Anyway, this has nothing to do with recruiting and patriotism 
which are about wholly believable war stories like you see
on tv and hear down at the lodge and bar.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Eric Cordian 
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 13:26:39 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Some children are rabid and need to be put down
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199802210518.XAA03312@wire.insync.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Tim May writes:

> And from what I've heard about this little girl, it's beginning to sound
> like she ought to be put down like a dog that can't stop biting. Or at
> least kicked out of the school completely...perhaps a reform school will
> straighten her out. 

In other Florida news, a 23 year old female daycare worker picked up a
kitchen knife and stabbed a mother to death, after the mother complained
that the worker had hit and pinched her 5 year old son. 

We don't really know what the counselor said or did to this 5 year old
girl before the biting started, and given the anti-youth bias of the
mainstream press, we are unlikely to find out.  Even if some horrendous
tale of harrassment by school staff emerges, it will simply be suggested
that they were "disciplining" her for her "behavior problem." 

Now she may have a legitimate problem, and may have started biting and
scratching in response to the counselor saying - "Good morning.  You look
lovely today." 

Then again.... 

It is rarely useful to take things like this at face value, especially
given the spin control talents of school administrators and the teachers
union.

-- 
Eric Michael Cordian 0+
O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division
"Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Eric Cordian 
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 13:28:06 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Jimbelling the Sheep
Message-ID: <199802210520.XAA03328@wire.insync.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



The FBI informant who orchestrated the capture of the recent "Anthrax
Terrorists" turns out to be a man twice convicted of felony extortion.
 
He presently markets something called "The AZ-58 Ray Tube Frequency
Instrument Prototype" which he advertises as being able to somehow
purify the body of bacteria and viruses.
 
Sounds like a rehash of Radionics.
 
You may view the contraption at its very own web site,
 
         http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/jmckenzie
 
-----
 
 
LAS VEGAS (AP) -- Far from planning an anthrax attack, William Leavitt
Jr. was involved in a bizarre deal to buy a $2 million germ-killing
machine from an FBI informant who double-crossed him, Leavitt's
lawyers said Friday.
 
Leavitt was described by his attorneys as a well-meaning, if gullible
scientist.
 
He and Larry Wayne Harris, both microbiologists, were arrested in
suburban Henderson Wednesday outside a medical office and charged with
conspiracy to possess and possession of a biological agent.
 
His lawyers said Leavitt was operating under the assumption that what
Harris had was Anthrax vaccine, which is legal and safe.
 
The FBI was awaiting tests Friday to determine if it was vaccine or
material grade anthrax, which is potent enough to kill thousands of
people.
 
Leavitt is married with three children and runs his own
fire-protection business. The FBI says he also owns microbiological
laboratories in his hometown of Logandale, Nev., and Frankfurt,
Germany.
 
His criminal attorney, Lamond Mills, said the FBI's informant, Ronald
Rockwell, was trying to ``scam'' Leavitt into buying a germ-killing
machine.
 
``When he couldn't scam 'em, he went the other way. He became a good
guy for the FBI,'' Mills said.
 
Leavitt's business lawyer, Kirby Wells, said the machine was called
the AZ-58 Ray Tube Frequency Instrument Prototype, and was hyped by
Rockwell in glossy brochures as being able to flush the body clean of
bacteria and viruses.
 
``It looked like a bunch of bells and whistles,'' said Wells, who said
he saw a picture of the machine. ``What made my client believe there
was substance to that thing, I don't know. I wish I did.''
 
A promotion on the Internet has a bold headline: ``ANTHRAX,'' and goes
on to say the AZ-58 ``can treat large numbers of people at the same
time.''
 
``Has the greatest health discovery in history been suppressed?'' the
ad asks.
 
Leavitt was close to buying the machine in a $2 million deal, but
wanted to test it before making a $100,000 down-payment and arranged
to fly Harris to Las Vegas about a week ago to help, said Wells.
 
Leavitt believed that Harris was transporting anthrax vaccine, Mills
said. But Rockwell told the FBI that Leavitt described it as
military-grade.
 
On the''NBC Nightly News'' Friday, Rockwell reiterated that Leavitt
and Harris said they had military grade anthrax.
 
``They lied on what they were going to do,'' Rockwell said. ``It
scared me so bad.''
 
There is no phone listing for Rockwell in the Las Vegas area. His
attorney has not returned calls to The Associated Press.
 
Leavitt and Harris were arrested Wednesday night after the FBI, with
Rockwell's help, tailed the men to a medical office in suburban
Henderson. Authorities removed a cooler and petri dishes from the
office, and sealed the men's beige Mercedes in plastic before
transporting it to an Air Force base.
 
Leavitt, 47, and Harris, 46, of Lancaster, Ohio, are being held
without bond.
 
In an affidavit, the FBI said described Rockwell as a cancer research
scientist who was convicted of felony extortion in 1981 and 1982. But
the FBI has vouched for his credibility, saying he came forward
without getting a deal and was a ``citizen performing his civic
duty.''
 
Harris' attorney, Michael Kennedy, said Thursday that Rockwell's
credibility ``is something we're going to look into.''
 
It was unclear how Leavitt, a Mormon bishop with strong political
ties, got hooked up with Harris, an alleged white supremacist who has
been plugging his self-published book about germ warfare.
 
The FBI has said Harris met Rockwell last summer at a Denver science
conference, while Leavitt's attorneys said they believed Rockwell got
the men together.
 
Mills said the results of the FBI tests will determine if they remain
united in their defense. ``If the tests come back non-toxin, there is
no case,'' said Mills. ``If it comes back military grade, then whoa,
time out, that's not our fault. We separate from (Harris)
completely.''

-- 
Eric Michael Cordian 0+
O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division
"Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"
 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 13:19:08 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: 2killo pounds of explosives stolen [CNN]
Message-ID: <199802210524.XAA28243@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

>                2,000 POUNDS OF EXPLOSIVES STOLEN IN PENNSYLVANIA
>                                        
>      February 20, 1998
>      Web posted at: 9:20 p.m. EST (0220 GMT)
>      
>      SLIGO, Pennsylvania (CNN) -- A coal company in Pennsylvania told the
>      federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms Friday that 2,000
>      pounds of mining explosives have been stolen.
>      
>      The explosives were taken from the C&K Coal Co. on February 16, and
>      authorities are offering a $5,000 reward for information leading to
>      the arrest of those responsible.

[text deleted]


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |            When a man assumes a public trust, he should            |
   |            consider himself public property.                       |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                      Thomas Jefferson              |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 12:31:43 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Digital copy prot3ction
In-Reply-To: <199802200216.UAA09021@manifold.algebra.com>
Message-ID: <92d01a45e1bce58469855d407660b28c@anon.efga.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Igor Chudov @ home wrote:

> I can hardly believe that any of these schemes are undefeatable.
>
> As soon as the CPU starts talking to a video and sound board,
> this whole thing becomes easily breakable. All one needs to do is
> to capture the signals that go to these boards and re-record them.
>
> Right?

Of course.

Such schemes usually increase the amount of piracy in the long-term,
because it encourages people to convert the material into a more easily
copied form.

If you've ever followed any of the warez scenes, what you find is
generally about 1% of the population acutally obtain and convert the
material, and the other 99% just trade copies around.  (Consider, for
example, the number of people who actually know how to dump the
contents of an eprom chip versus the number of sites where you can
download copies of nintendo/sega/etc games.)





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Brian B. Riley" 
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 12:43:35 +0800
To: "Eric Cordian" 
Subject: Re: The Political Education of Eric Tune
Message-ID: <199802210438.XAA03845@mx01.together.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On 2/20/98 1:32 AM, Eric Cordian (emc@wire.insync.net)  passed this 
wisdom:

>> Listen up jerk, in case you didn't get any news during 1990, 
>> Iraq attacked Kuwait, and murdered thousands of Kuwaitis.
> 
>Iraq, mislead by the US into believing that there would be no 
>interference in its long-standing dispute with Kuwait, annexed it, 
>providing a pretense for the US to do some dirty work for the 
>Israelis, who did not want to tolerate an Arab military giant in 
>their region.
>
>Kuwait provoked Iraq far more than places like Panama and Grenada 
>have provoked the United States, when US forces poured in to remove 
>existing governments, and install regimes sympathetic to 
>Washington, also killing thousands of uninvolved civilians. 

 Somewhere in there I also remember reading about the fact that Kuwait 
was slant drilling into a major Iraqi oil field and systematically 
pumping it for all it was worth. Not exactly kosher! Many greater 
conflicts have been begun for far more trivial transgressions.


Brian B. Riley --> http://members.macconnect.com/~brianbr
  For PGP Keys  

  "Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is
    no path, and leave a trail"  - Ralph Waldo Emerson






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 13:49:16 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Jimbelling the Sheep (fwd)
Message-ID: <199802210552.XAA28462@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: Eric Cordian 
> Subject: Jimbelling the Sheep
> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 23:20:51 -0600 (CST)

> The FBI informant who orchestrated the capture of the recent "Anthrax
> Terrorists" turns out to be a man twice convicted of felony extortion.

In one of the news reports that I heard the informant was described as a
cancer researcher who was approached with an offer to purchase some surplus
lab equipment.


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |            When a man assumes a public trust, he should            |
   |            consider himself public property.                       |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                      Thomas Jefferson              |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 13:53:36 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Some children are rabid and need to be put down (fwd)
Message-ID: <199802210556.XAA28525@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: Eric Cordian 
> Subject: Re: Some children are rabid and need to be put down
> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 23:18:04 -0600 (CST)

> Now she may have a legitimate problem, and may have started biting and
> scratching in response to the counselor saying - "Good morning.  You look
> lovely today." 

Apparently the girls problems had been going on for a while, if the reports
are accurate. Which raises the question of why she was still in a regular
school environment in the first place. If it was a 'all of a sudden' attack
then perhaps the instructor needs some looking into as well.

I'd like to know what the 'significant blood loss' from scratches was
refering to, as well as what experience the teacher had with the child prior
to this.

> It is rarely useful to take things like this at face value, especially
> given the spin control talents of school administrators and the teachers
> union.

Agreed.


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |            When a man assumes a public trust, he should            |
   |            consider himself public property.                       |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                      Thomas Jefferson              |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 13:01:51 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: BBC Gnaws Crypto
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980221050004.00755974@pop.pipeline.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



The BBC has a special report on encryption policy today on
its Web site, with disputes among the UK, EU and US:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/special_report/1998/encryption/newsid_58000
/58499.stm


Thanks to Yaman Akdeniz on UK Crypto list.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: eristic@gryzmak.lodz.pdi.net (Marek Jedlinski)
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 09:40:18 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Is spam really a problem?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <34eeebcf.17966504@gryzmak.lodz.pdi.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Tim May wrote:

If:

>Indeed, discussion of "what to do about spam?" periodically consumes all of
>the main lists I'm on. Discussion of spam is worse than the actual spam.

then:

Discussion of net abuse is worse than net abuse.
Discussion of theft is worse than theft.
Discussion of, hey, abortion is worse than...

Hear Mister Free-Speech talk, and shudder.

.marek



From owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Sun Feb 22 03:56 SGT 1998
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Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 00:34:09 -0500 (EST)
From: Rabid Wombat 
To: Eric Cordian 
cc: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Jimbelling the Sheep
In-Reply-To: <199802210520.XAA03328@wire.insync.net>
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The local radio station just played a soundbite explaining that the 
"Anthrax" was not viable, and could not have been used to develop a 
weapon. They went on to state that the perpetrator was a "disgruntled scam 
artist whose scheme to make money off the Internet had failed."

If they can't get anything out of the bio weapons angle, there's always 
the 'net angle. The news goobers are catching onto the concept of "object 
re-use."


On Fri, 20 Feb 1998, Eric Cordian wrote:

> The FBI informant who orchestrated the capture of the recent "Anthrax
> Terrorists" turns out to be a man twice convicted of felony extortion.
>  
> He presently markets something called "The AZ-58 Ray Tube Frequency
> Instrument Prototype" which he advertises as being able to somehow
> purify the body of bacteria and viruses.
>  
> Sounds like a rehash of Radionics.
>  
> You may view the contraption at its very own web site,
>  
>          http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/jmckenzie
>  
> -----
>  
>  
> LAS VEGAS (AP) -- Far from planning an anthrax attack, William Leavitt
> Jr. was involved in a bizarre deal to buy a $2 million germ-killing
> machine from an FBI informant who double-crossed him, Leavitt's
> lawyers said Friday.
>  
> Leavitt was described by his attorneys as a well-meaning, if gullible
> scientist.
>  
> He and Larry Wayne Harris, both microbiologists, were arrested in
> suburban Henderson Wednesday outside a medical office and charged with
> conspiracy to possess and possession of a biological agent.
>  
> His lawyers said Leavitt was operating under the assumption that what
> Harris had was Anthrax vaccine, which is legal and safe.
>  
> The FBI was awaiting tests Friday to determine if it was vaccine or
> material grade anthrax, which is potent enough to kill thousands of
> people.
>  
> Leavitt is married with three children and runs his own
> fire-protection business. The FBI says he also owns microbiological
> laboratories in his hometown of Logandale, Nev., and Frankfurt,
> Germany.
>  
> His criminal attorney, Lamond Mills, said the FBI's informant, Ronald
> Rockwell, was trying to ``scam'' Leavitt into buying a germ-killing
> machine.
>  
> ``When he couldn't scam 'em, he went the other way. He became a good
> guy for the FBI,'' Mills said.
>  
> Leavitt's business lawyer, Kirby Wells, said the machine was called
> the AZ-58 Ray Tube Frequency Instrument Prototype, and was hyped by
> Rockwell in glossy brochures as being able to flush the body clean of
> bacteria and viruses.
>  
> ``It looked like a bunch of bells and whistles,'' said Wells, who said
> he saw a picture of the machine. ``What made my client believe there
> was substance to that thing, I don't know. I wish I did.''
>  
> A promotion on the Internet has a bold headline: ``ANTHRAX,'' and goes
> on to say the AZ-58 ``can treat large numbers of people at the same
> time.''
>  
> ``Has the greatest health discovery in history been suppressed?'' the
> ad asks.
>  
> Leavitt was close to buying the machine in a $2 million deal, but
> wanted to test it before making a $100,000 down-payment and arranged
> to fly Harris to Las Vegas about a week ago to help, said Wells.
>  
> Leavitt believed that Harris was transporting anthrax vaccine, Mills
> said. But Rockwell told the FBI that Leavitt described it as
> military-grade.
>  
> On the''NBC Nightly News'' Friday, Rockwell reiterated that Leavitt
> and Harris said they had military grade anthrax.
>  
> ``They lied on what they were going to do,'' Rockwell said. ``It
> scared me so bad.''
>  
> There is no phone listing for Rockwell in the Las Vegas area. His
> attorney has not returned calls to The Associated Press.
>  
> Leavitt and Harris were arrested Wednesday night after the FBI, with
> Rockwell's help, tailed the men to a medical office in suburban
> Henderson. Authorities removed a cooler and petri dishes from the
> office, and sealed the men's beige Mercedes in plastic before
> transporting it to an Air Force base.
>  
> Leavitt, 47, and Harris, 46, of Lancaster, Ohio, are being held
> without bond.
>  
> In an affidavit, the FBI said described Rockwell as a cancer research
> scientist who was convicted of felony extortion in 1981 and 1982. But
> the FBI has vouched for his credibility, saying he came forward
> without getting a deal and was a ``citizen performing his civic
> duty.''
>  
> Harris' attorney, Michael Kennedy, said Thursday that Rockwell's
> credibility ``is something we're going to look into.''
>  
> It was unclear how Leavitt, a Mormon bishop with strong political
> ties, got hooked up with Harris, an alleged white supremacist who has
> been plugging his self-published book about germ warfare.
>  
> The FBI has said Harris met Rockwell last summer at a Denver science
> conference, while Leavitt's attorneys said they believed Rockwell got
> the men together.
>  
> Mills said the results of the FBI tests will determine if they remain
> united in their defense. ``If the tests come back non-toxin, there is
> no case,'' said Mills. ``If it comes back military grade, then whoa,
> time out, that's not our fault. We separate from (Harris)
> completely.''
> 
> -- 
> Eric Michael Cordian 0+
> O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division
> "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"
>  
> 
> 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 15:06:57 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Should the Feds ban spam? (fwd)
Message-ID: <199802210709.BAA28924@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 22:36:38 -0800
> From: Bill Stewart 
> Subject: Re: Should the Feds ban spam? (fwd)

> >At 16:36 -0600 2/15/98, Jim Choate wrote:
> >>Newspaper editors work according to policies and trusts empowered by the
> >>owners of the paper. They are allowed as a function of the views of the
> >>owners to express that choice as an *employee* of those owners. Those
> >>policies do not apply to the readers as would happen in the case of an ISP.
> >>Unless you propose that each person should have multiple accounts at
> >>multiple ISP's.
> 
> At 06:43 PM 2/15/98 -0500, Declan McCullagh wrote:
> >This is so incoherent that it's not possible to turn into a positive statement.

It means the employee's of the paper act as agents of the owners and not as
direct right-holders of the paper itself. In other word the job of the
editor, not his civil right as an owner, is what gives them the privilige at
the behest of the owners to edit what appears in the paper.

The only people who have a right to 'freedom of the press' are the people
who *own* the press. Employees don't have rights, per se, in this only
duties and responsibilities to carry out the desires of the owners.

Now if we address the issue, as some proposed, of ISP's having 'global
filtering' rules (eg "All cyberpromo.com accounts are filtered") *and* the
purchaser may for some reason *want* to recieve cyberpromo.com traffic they
are left with the only option of going to a second (or third, or ...) ISP
in order to get what they want.

> I found it pretty easy to parse, though incorrect -
> Jim assumes that each person will only deal with one ISP,

Not at all, I assume that people can deal with as many ISP's as they have
money for. What I do assume is that if we expect ISP's to filter spam they
have only a single option open to them. That option is to impliment a
filtering policy based upon an interview and oversight by the purchasers of
that account. This will increase the costs of Internet access far above the
current levels. This increase in cost will naturaly strain already limited
budgets and force some people to drop secondary (or tertiary, or ...)
accounts because of this basic access price increase.

> and that getting spam filtering from that ISP means turning
> over control of all your incoming mail/news to the ISP.

Not at all, the purchaser defines a spam policy that the ISP impliments.
Whatever filtering the recipient wants to do over and above this is left
unremarked. However, for an ISP to filter ones email to determine if it fits
the policy the purchaser/recipient has defined they *will* be required to
review *all* incoming mail. Otherwise how do they determine if it fits one
of the categories that were defined in the contract, whether we look at it
from the perspective of what to filter or what to pass along and let the
customer process on their own.


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |            When a man assumes a public trust, he should            |
   |            consider himself public property.                       |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                      Thomas Jefferson              |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 15:19:17 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Public transportation open to terrorism [CNN]
Message-ID: <199802210724.BAA29014@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

>                     STUDY: PUBLIC TRANSIT INVITES TERRORISM
>                                        
>      graphic February 20, 1998
>      Web posted at: 6:59 p.m. EST (2359 GMT)
>      
>      WASHINGTON (AP) -- The arrests in Nevada of two men accused of
>      possessing anthrax or its precursor highlight the findings of a
>      recent federal report warning that public buses and trains are
>      vulnerable to terrorist attack.
>      
>      Indeed, an FBI affidavit said that one of the Nevada men had talked
>      about plans to spread bubonic plague toxins in the New York City
>      subway system.
>      
>      "For those determined to kill in quantity and willing to kill
>      indiscriminately, public transportation offers an ideal target," the
>      report said.
>      
>      The report was commissioned by the U.S. Department of Transportation
>      and written last year by terrorism expert Brian Jenkins.

[text deleted]

>      Amy Coggin, a spokeswoman for the American Public Transit
>      Association, the trade group for public transportation authorities,
>      said in an interview: "There are multiple entry points (to transit
>      systems), most of them on a street. There's no way screen everybody
>      who walks down a street. Unless we're going to become a police
>      state, you won't see that thing happening."

[text deleted]


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |            When a man assumes a public trust, he should            |
   |            consider himself public property.                       |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                      Thomas Jefferson              |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 12:01:29 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: The Eloquence of Timothy C. May
Message-ID: <199802210345.EAA21038@basement.replay.com>
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>From the archives.  Check for yourself if you don't believe me.

9 May 1997:
> Chiles and his co-conspirators should be shot for high crimes against the
> Constitution. After Clinton, Freeh, Kerrey, and the other traitors.
>
> Every day that passes, I'm more convinced that McVeigh did the right thing.
> Some innocents died, but, hey, war is hell. Broken eggs and all that.


12 Nov 1997:
> At 10:37 PM -0700 11/12/97, Nobuki Nakatuji wrote:
> >There are RC4 sourcecode in ftp.replay.com.
> >but, Is it  same RC4 developed RSADSI ?
> >
> 
> It am developed.
> 
> You go back where you came. You go back hotmail. We tired your stupid
> questions on RC4 and your Misty posts.
> 
> Sayonara!
> 
> (And they wonder why we kicked Japan's butt.)
> 
> --Tim May


26 Sep 1997:
> At 8:00 PM -0700 9/26/97, Nobuki Nakatuji wrote:
> >Does anybody want MISTY algorithm ?
> >If you want it,Please send e-mail to me.
> >
> 
> I thought we got rid of your sorry ass two weeks ago!
> 
> Go back to trying to arrange "male penpals," which Dejanews shows to be
> your activity on the Net prior to this recent playing of Misty.
> 
> You go, chop chop.


Sad, isn't it?


From owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Sun Feb 22 00:11 SGT 1998
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I would like to know the information my browser makes available to web sites. I use both Netscape and Internet Explorer.

Obviously web sites can determine my IP address for any given session; they can also look at cookies left by themselves and other sites.

Can anyone point me to where I can learn exactly what other information is made available (browser version?, OS version?, system name?, user name?, etc.)?

Thanks in advance.

David



From owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Sun Feb 22 10:54 SGT 1998
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From: Rabid Wombat 
To: "William H. Geiger III" 
cc: Tim May , cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Some children are rabid and need to be put down
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> >I call things as I see them. I've heard no spin-doctoring, just reports
> >of the child's behavior, admitted by her father.
> 
> So one temper-tantrum by a 5 year old and its off to the BigHouse on
> Felony Assault Charges??

>From the sound if it; this was not "one tantrum", but a pattern of 
behavior that the parents failed to address after being requested to do so.

Would you want your children class with another child who repeatedly went 
into room-smashing rages with no appearant consequences for such behavior???

Sounds like the parents failed to "get around to" the counseling, and the 
school forced the issue.


From owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Sun Feb 22 00:11 SGT 1998
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From: Ken Williams 
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To: Information Security 
cc: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re:  Fwd: Big Brother Sees through walls (from the spyking list)
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On Fri, 20 Feb 1998, Information Security wrote:

>   >   From: sunder 
>   >   
>   >   1)From: "George Martin" 
>   >   Subject: News Release: High-Tech Surveillance
>   >   
>   >   Here's a sampling of how state and federal agencies are using this
>   >   terrifying technology to spy on Americans:
>   >   
>   >   * In North Carolina, county governments use high-resolution spy satellite
>   >   photographs to search for property improvements that might increase
>   >   property tax assessments.
>
>Was this cost authorized by taxpayers?
>

I have lived in Raleigh, North Carolina my entire life (over 30 yrs).
County governments consist of an elected board of commissioners who have
the power to make such decisions and expenditures without holding public
hearings on these matters.  Unless the local media jumps on one of these
proposals weeks in advance, nobody will even know about it or have an
opportunity to petition for a public hearing.  Once the county
commisioners vote on and approve it, our money is spent and the public has
no recourse (until the next election).  Here in Raleigh, Wake County, NC,
for instance, we have a Republican county commissioner and a board of
members.  When I heard from his daughter, a personal friend, about his
plans to cut funding to drug education and rehab programs and redirect all
of those funds to the county prison system, I decided to act.  I contacted
the commissioner himself, his office, and even had lunch with his wife and
daughter to discuss this issue.  As a family friend, I thought I would at
least be able to get a friendly, receptive ear.  His wife and daughter
were in full agreement with me, but the commissioner dismissed all of my
suggestions and pleas.  In fact, he told me that I was "high on crack" for
even suggesting that he *not* cut spending to drug education and rehab
programs.  i then appealed to the media, the public, and various county
drug rehab and education facilities and tried to petition for public
hearings on the issue.  After getting stonewalled by the GOP-controlled
county board of commissioners, funding to drug rehab and education
programs was cut by over 50%.  Since that time (two years ago), drug
arrests and convictions, violent crime, murder, non-violent crimes,
and admissions to treatment centers have all risen, in all of the basic
statistical measurement categories.

Wake county taxes have increased dramatically (almost 50%), and we have
just completed building a new county jail and several county jail annex
facilities.  In both percentage and numbers, our county jail population is
at the highest rate it has ever been.

On a related note, seven of the Wake county sherriff's deputies, who all
had laptop computers (with Internet access) in their cruisers, were
recently busted for spending all of their time on the clock surfing the
web and going to porno websites and adult chatrooms.  One of the deputies
has been arrested for using a sherriff's department scanner to scan in a
picture of his genitals which he then sent to a young girl, a minor, from
his cruiser while on duty.

Additionally, the officer in charge of the weapons armory for the
sherriff's department, which contains full-auto weapons such as the HK MP5
and the M16, was recently dismissed because it was discovered that he had
been spending all of his time on the clock in another section of the
building surfing adult sites on the web.  Meanwhile, the armory was left
unlocked, deputies were unable to get their weapons serviced within a
reasonable period of time, and an M16 "disappeared".

My tax dollars at work...

>
>No amount of control over the population is enough for the U.S. Government.
>---guy
>

Next...i'll fill you in on some of the more interesting discoveries I made
while working for the NC Dept of Crime Control and Public Safety.  They
don't need satellites to watch you here in Raleigh...they have hi-tech,
hi-res cameras perched on top of all the tallest buildings, in the
projects, at selected street corners, and various other points.

so much for your privacy...

TATTOOMAN

/--------------------------[   TATTOOMAN   ]--------------------------\
| ORG: NC State Computer Science Dept    VP of The  E. H. A. P. Corp. |
| EML: jkwilli2@adm.csc.ncsu.edu         ehap@hackers.com             |
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| WWW: http://www4.ncsu.edu/~jkwilli2/   http://www.hackers.com/ehap/ |
| FTP: ftp://152.7.11.38/pub/personal/tattooman/                      |
| W3B: http://152.7.11.38/~tattooman/w3board/                         |
| PGP: finger tattooman@152.7.11.38                                   |
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From owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Sat Feb 21 16:16 SGT 1998
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From: "Attila T. Hun" 
Reply-to: "Attila T. Hun" 
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 98 07:57:36 +0000
To: Bill Stewart ,
        cypherpunks 
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980220092346.008dd590@popd.ix.netcom.com>
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

on or about 980220:0923, in <3.0.5.32.19980220092346.008dd590@popd.ix.netcom.com>, 
    Bill Stewart  was purported to have 
    expostulated to perpetuate an opinion:

    [snip]

>but the US refused for a long time to sign the CBW treaties, and I'm not
>sure they ever did follow through and destroy their supplies.
>				Thanks! 
>					Bill

    they built an enormous incinerator in Utah near the Nevada border
    in the area of Dugway, but not within that restricted zone. it went
    operation about 18-24 months ago, was closed last year for 
    verification of contamination (Utah and EPA obviously against it),
    and as far as I know, it's opeartional and doing its thing.

    the govt was also building a facility in the south pacific; maybe
    on what's left of Bimini or one nearby which are within the 
    protectorate --no idea what the status of that one is except 
    Greenpeace was doing their usual howling about transporting 
    the stuff both in the US and across the big pond --they were
    planning on exporting the stuff through the port at Oakland
    Navy Yard.

    one of the largest caches of obsolete stuff used to be in
    the old munitions bunkers just south of Long Beach between 
    the freeway and the ocean --if not seal beach, then huntington
    beach --the bunkers were for the Long Beach naval ship yard
    and the port of LA.  have no idea what the status is as that
    was years ago --you can see the bunkers from the freeway --they
    go on for a couple miles.

    we did not want the incinerator on Utah, and are not too
    enthused about the reactivation of Dugway as a "more secure"
    Area 51 --it is, and much harder to access with no visibility
    points that plagued area 51.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3i
Charset: latin1
Comment: No safety this side of the grave. Never was; never will be

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wzgLPQZsLCPa3VmDcxDFIpQAl/K7fyNruJzLRAYJ6f2r096/DdKpyA==
=AW4q
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From owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Sun Feb 22 00:11 SGT 1998
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To: Bill Stewart , cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
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At 12:11 PM -0500 on 2/20/98, Bill Stewart wrote:


> Heh - West Coast Cypherpunks end up on Japanese TV :-)

So do Anguillan ones. And Boston ones, but they get edited out for talking
too much. And not having the requisite goatee ;-). Anyway, when they do pay
attention to these things moneypunks are more interested places in like
Financial Times, Institutional Investor, and of course Forbes. :-). Nikkei,
which is the Japanese equivalent of the Wall Street Journal, will do.  Of
course, J. Pierpont Morgan hired a PR man to keep J. P. Morgan & Co., Inc.,
*out* of the papers. I expect that'll happen soon enough... :-).

> Good article.

Thank you.

> If you're trying to emphasize the financial stuff,
> moving it up to the beginning would help, but I don't know the audience
> you wrote it for.

There were three lists, each with it's own group of paid ringers. One about
the net in general, with Rheingold on it, one on the net in Asia, with no
one I recognised, and one on net commerce, with me. :-). I was just warming
them all up for the next rant, which will be more on finance, with the
stuff at the end. That rant will only go to the commerce list.

> _Bell_ Labs,


Oops. Drag. Even a spelling checker would have caught that one...


> However, the Electro-Mechanical telephone switch was Not Invented Here -

I know the story about the mortician. The point I was trying to make was
that AT&T were "incentivized", by the cost of regulation, certainly, but
mostly by economics in general, to automate switching, not that they
invented the electromechanical switch in particular.

> The difficulty, of course, is that geodesic markets with bearer
> instruments make it easy to do business anonymously - so everyone
> may know that fraud was committed, but not know who committed it.

Actually, with anonymous bearer settlement, like with blind signatures, you
still need a perfect pseudonym to clear the trade, which, modulo a few
biometric peculiarities which I wrote a 40k rant about here in December
:-), is perfect anonymity. That pseudonym can have reputation, which is
(roughly) orthogonal to the biometric identity of the person owning that
pseudonym's private key.

Anyway, the whole point to bearer-settled transactions is that you're
trusting the issuer as far as the integrity of the certificates themselves
are concerned. First by the financial reputation of the issuer, and then by
the ability to inspect and validate the certificates when they're exchanged.

Since we haven't figured out a way to do a workable offline protocol,
modulo hints of one on the FC98 program :-), the problem of inspection is
handled by using an on-line protocol, which, in the case of Chaum,
essentially issues new, but blinded, certificates in the "name" of the
public key accepting them for payment or receipt. For larger value
transactions, anyway. The whole issue of doing a transaction offline with
current bearer settlement technology is obviously a question of financial
risk. I claim that the cost of bearer protocols, even when you reissue
blinded bearer certificates for every transaction, will still be cheaper
than book-entry settlement. It'll certainly be faster to clear and settle.

The exception to this, of course, is micropayments, where hash collision
tokens like MicroMint and hashcash, will probably be tested stocastically
for double spending, and expiration and other thing will probably handle
the rest. Since these will eventually be device-level payment systems, I
expect that fraudulent devices will have a harder time operating if their
reputation goes than people will, but maybe not.

The problem of the reputation of the issuer is simply a matter of
demonstrating nonperformance of the obligation represented by the bearer
certificate.

Which brings us to the parties using the certificates for exchange. I
expect the functional anonymity of blinded bearer protocols will be good
enough, but, like I said before, if someone wants to accept
second-generation offline blinded certificates in payment, their
willingness to do so is a function of financial risk. More to the point,
the reciever can test these certificates, and the person who offers them
for exchange is simply out their value if they turn out to be double spent,
so the risk is actually borne by the spender, same as it ever was.

Finally, there's the issue of fraud outside the integrity of bearer
certificates. Again, it's a function of financial risk. For low value
transactions, even the use of a perfect pseudonym is not necessary, and you
could use utterly anonymous transaction. However, I expect that persistant
perfect pseudonymity will be the rule, and that it will be functional
enough anonymity (modulo the biometric problems of transaction analysis I
talked about in December) for even the most decerning cypherpunk.


> The lack of need for accounts and reputation capital is part of what
> makes geodesic markets financially advantageous.  On the other hand,
> reconciling these differences is complex enough that cryptographers
> and financial folks can make big bucks getting it right :-)

Say 'amen', somebody. :-). If, as I claim, digital bearer settlement can
reduce the cost of transactions by three orders of magnitude over all forms
of book-entry settlement, then we'll have no choice to adopt them. As
people quite familiar with Moore's Law, we all know how much money can be
made when you reduce the cost of doing something so much. The rest, of
course, will be history. :-).

Cheers,



-----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/
Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: 



From owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Sun Feb 22 00:11 SGT 1998
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In <3.0.5.32.19980220184839.008d4b50@popd.ix.netcom.com>, on 02/20/98 
   at 09:48 PM, Bill Stewart  said:

>>   at 03:00 AM, Anonymous  said:
>>>Use mail readers that don't automatically process HTML and
>>>connect to image servers, accept cookies, or run javascripts.  You are
>>>being watched by tricky defective, er, detective types. es.
>>
>>Several things here:
>>
>At 02:32 AM 2/18/98 -0500, William H. Geiger III wrote:
>>1. HTML in mail:
>>There is just no place for this crap in e-mail. If multipart/alternative
>>is used it is tolarable but pure text/html messages go into the bitbucket
>>with a autoreply explaining to the poster the error of their ways. :)

>HTML is a fine format for email.  It's ASCII readable, and supports
>content description tags that the user's mail reader can render as
>bold/italic/underline/header-levels//color/etc.  It's far superior to
>using bloated undocumented Microsoft Word attachments. 95% of the HTML
>email I get IS spam, but that's a separate problem :-) (After all,
>SPAMMERs like bright colored blinking attention-getting mail.)

Yes but who needs all this crap in e-mail?? E-Mail is a messaging protocol
not a protocol for large documents (HTML is not sutable for large
documents either but that is for another rant).

WARNING: This is the only time you will see me say somthing good about
MickySloth.

I must admit that atleast MS Outlook follows the RFC's and makes use of
multipart/alternative when sending out HTML formated messages so others
are not forced to use a webbrowser to read their mail (unlike Net$cape or
Eudora).

There is no place for HTML in e-mail plain and simple. I do not wan't to
have to load a huge bloated bugfilled webbrowser just to process my e-mail
messages.

>>My recomendations is to dump the Netscape garbage and get a real e-mail
>>client. Netsacpe has done a good job at screwing up the web we really
>>don't need the same favor from them with e-mail.

>Netscape mail is adequate for many people, just as Eudora is. Newer
>versions are pretty bloated, but including S/MIME mail encryption for
>everybody is a Good Thing.

Now this is really scary. You consider pushing weak 40bit S/MIME on the
internet users a GoodThing(TM)? I think you need to sit down and rethink
this one Bill.

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html                        
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
  Hi
 
Tag-O-Matic: Have you crashed your Windows today?

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From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 98 09:13:43 -0500
To: Tim May 
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Cc: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
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In , on 02/20/98 
   at 08:30 PM, Tim May  said:


>At 6:29 PM -0800 2/20/98, William H. Geiger III wrote:

>>No not at all. We have some serious problems with the County Sherifs
>>Department down here.
>>

>I'm having a hard time understanding all this criticism of the actions.
>>From what I've read, the girl bit, scratched, threw chairs, etc.

>Many of us think 13- and 14-year-olds who commit murder should be
>executed (well, I do), so why should younger children be exempt from
>legal action?

Well I think that we have a large gap between a 5 year old little girl
having a temper tantrum and a teanager gangbanger going and shooting
people.

>I know that if a kid was throwing chairs at me I'd be tempted to throw a
>punch back...something that is strictly verboten. Lawsuits, criminal
>prosecution, never work in the school system again, that sort of
>verboten.

Well you have definatly jumped off the deep end on this one Tim. If we
were talking a teenager going out of control then I would agree with you.
A 5 year old though??

>If a teacher can't defend herself, legally and professionally, from
>children biting and throwing chairs, the cops have to be called.

If a teacher can not subdue and control a 5 year old little girl without
resorting to physical violence or calling in the storm troopers it's time
to look for another line of work.

>And from what I've heard about this little girl, it's beginning to sound
>like she ought to be put down like a dog that can't stop biting. Or at
>least kicked out of the school completely...perhaps a reform school will
>straighten her out.

When have you ever been so quick to blindly believe the spindoctoring of
the government Tim?

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html                        
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
  Hi
 
Tag-O-Matic: Have you crashed your Windows today?

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From owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Sun Feb 22 09:32 SGT 1998
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Timothy May wrote:

>(One can asssume that with more and more such things being added to the
>"watch lists" each year, that there will be less acceptance of cash, or
>anonymous digital cash, for such purchases.)

I tried to buy some chemicals down here with cash about six months ago. They
tried everything they could to get me to write a check and in the end I
stormed out of the building, leaving the merchandise on the counter. I
haven't been back yet, and there's probably a good chance that the security
camera footage was sent to the FBI. Come to think of it, that would explain
some rather wierd incidents I've observed since then.

People say that the only reason to pay in cash is if you have something to
hide. You're damned right. The last thing I want is a bunch of government 
shills keeping track of what I buy so that they can stage some raid because 
they have a record of me paying for a beaker "which could be used" to mix 
chemicals which "could be used" as explosives, or metal "which could be 
used" to make thermite which "could be used" for some nefarious purpose.

In America today if you have interests in biology, chemistry, or physics it
is considered grounds by both the government and the pathetic sheep to shoot
you. Pardon me if I'm a little bit paranoid these days. It used to be
intellectuals were just beat up and made fun of by the others in schools.
Now it's fashionable to throw them in jail or kill them. "Unauthorized 
and illegitimate research:" what a stupid concept.

The American people consider anybody who does things in secret to be
automatically guilty. Forget the principles that America was founded on! When 
the government sends the ninjas into your home because you were going 56 mph
when you passed a cop on the highway and looked over at him the wrong way
they sieze your computer. They find that you're running Linux. Oooh, you
must be evil because your computer is password protected but the Microshaft
apologist across the hall has his computer wide open. They find that you
have blocks of random data on your drive, and even if they don't get them
decrypted because they *ARE* blocks of completely random data they wave it
in front of a jury and get a guilty verdict.

It's a sad, sad state of affairs.

>ObMinorNote: I recently tried to buy a bag of ammonium nitrate for my
>yard...the local yard store says it hasn't been available to ordinary
>customers since OKC. I had to settle for ammonium sulfate instead.

It is when I read things like this that I realize how completely stupid the
entire government position is. Why do you need to buy ammonium nitrate to
make a bomb?

Assuming you just don't use something else which is more effective, why not
do this?

 NH OH + HNO --> NH NO  + H O
   3        3      3  3    2

So this naturally leads to the following question: Is having nitric acid and
ammonium hydroxide now a crime worthy of ninjas flying through your windows
with big guns in the middle of the night and shooting you because "you
looked like you were going for a weapon" when you flushed the toilet and
pulled your pants up?

Then if they don't have anything to charge you with they plant some drugs in
your toilet tank and claim that you were in "possession of drugs with
intention to distribute." Of course you were going to distribute them! You
had a truck and you frequently drove around! 

>We live in a dangerous world, full of potentially dangerous substances and
>things. Instead of dealing with the danger on a personal basis, we are
>using the government as our nanny, and also letting it record our
>purchases, open files on us for "unusual" purchases, and generally track
>our actions. Which actually won't have much effect on dedicated terrorists
>and criminals.

Exactly. Welcome to the shakedown extortion police state known as Amerika,
Land of the Freeh.


From owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Sun Feb 22 02:25 SGT 1998
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At 6:13 AM -0800 2/21/98, William H. Geiger III wrote:

>Well you have definatly jumped off the deep end on this one Tim. If we
>were talking a teenager going out of control then I would agree with you.
>A 5 year old though??
>
>>If a teacher can't defend herself, legally and professionally, from
>>children biting and throwing chairs, the cops have to be called.
>
>If a teacher can not subdue and control a 5 year old little girl without
>resorting to physical violence or calling in the storm troopers it's time
>to look for another line of work.

My sister teaches Kindergarten/first grade in the LA County School
District, specifically, Inglewood (shudder). She is forbidden to:

- physically touch the children in any way

- discipline them in any meaningful way

- flunk them if they fail to behave or learn what is supposedly required

("Flunking Kindergarten" is tough, so where this rule really become
significant is in the higher grades, where all kids are promoted, even
those who can't read, can't add, etc.)

My sister says the teachers have zero power to do anything, and the kids
know it.

>When have you ever been so quick to blindly believe the spindoctoring of
>the government Tim?
>

Spare me the casual insults.

I call things as I see them. I've heard no spin-doctoring, just reports of
the child's behavior, admitted by her father.

--Tim May

Just Say No to "Big Brother Inside"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^3,021,377   | black markets, collapse of governments.




From owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Sun Feb 22 03:13 SGT 1998
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Sure, check out:  http://www.autobahn.org/main/addr.shtml

What year is it? 1984? hehhehe

Lates...

At 05:51 AM 2/21/98 -0800, you wrote:
>I would like to know the information my browser makes available to web
sites. I use both Netscape and Internet Explorer.
>
>Obviously web sites can determine my IP address for any given session;
they can also look at cookies left by themselves and other sites.
>
>Can anyone point me to where I can learn exactly what other information is
made available (browser version?, OS version?, system name?, user name?,
etc.)?
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>David
> 

Joshua Kunken
Administrative Computing
jkunken@uclink4.berkeley.edu

"100% uptime? You betcha!"


From owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Sun Feb 22 03:14 SGT 1998
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At 9:23 AM -0800 2/20/98, Bill Stewart wrote:

>They'd also be focusing on the great job they've done eliminating the
>entire US stock of CBW and nukes.  Oh, we haven't?  Well their weapons
>of mass destruction are Evil, and ours are Freedom Fighting Tools.
>Actually the US and Former Soviet Union have substantially reduced the
>nuclear forces, especially older missiles that are hard to maintain,
>but the US refused for a long time to sign the CBW treaties,
>and I'm not sure they ever did follow through and destroy their supplies.

Nixon made a very big deal of signing some papers which would supposedly
get rid of CBW supplies and research. This was back in 1972.

(I remember this clearly, because I was in college and my roomates and I,
all libertarians, hooted when the supposedly eliminated CBW weapons got
loose at Dugway Proving Grounds and killed a bunch of sheeple (er, "sheep")
in Utah...and an excellent and rage-inspiring movie with George C. Scott,
"Rage," had a similar theme. Highly recommended, if you can find it.)

What really happened is that a bunch of military bacteriological warfare
facilities were turned over to the private sector. Oh, and renamed "cancer
research," which looked good to the sheeple, as Nixon had just declared a
War on Cancer.

So, Litton Bionetics took a big piece, the National Cancer Institute
formally took over some of the military's labs (but the staff remained
unchanged, and some of the military brass "retired" to these
now-civilianized facilities), and things went on as usual. Well, not "as
usual," as it appears the secret side of governtment drastically stepped-up
work on biological and chemical weapons.

And the stockpiles still exist, of course. Some are corroding inside VX
warheads near Hanford, Washington (a good place to be far away from). Some
are stockpiled in Germany, apparently too dangerous to even move. And some
are no doubt stockpiled in lots of other places.

Here's a little personal story:

I worked for two summers in one of the labs probably related to this whole
thing. I worked in an immunology lab in the summers of 1969 and 1970,
working on immunoassay methods. My job was mundane, to run experiments
directed by others, to bleed mice for their serum, to run centrifuges, and
so on. Others in the lab worked with monkeys, on cancer, and hepatitus.
Yep, we had one of the first clean rooms in the nation, with double
airlocks, devoted to Hepatitus B (I think it was). All of this in a
nondescript warehouse building in Springfield, Virginia, just down Highway
95 from Washington. The company was initially Melpar, then the lab was spun
off into Melloy Labs. Some of the labs, Melpar at least, were sold to
E-Systems, the spook/SIGINT private contractor.

(For those who live, or lived, in the D.C. area, here are a few more
details. The lab was originally at the Arlington Boulevard facility of
Melpar, near the intersection with the Beltway. The biological labs were
spun-off and moved to West Springfield in 1970.)

I hadn't thought about this work for many years, until in the past couple
of years I've been reading up on the history of AIDS and the military's
work on monkey viruses. (Books, "Hot Zone," "AIDS, Ebola, and Emerging
Viruses," "Mary, Ferry, and the Monkey Virus," etc.)

It turns out that the period 1969-73 was a period of "privatizing" much
research that the military had formerly done. Several labs affiliated with
defense contractors were actively working with monkey cultures, and
maintaining contacts with Fort Detrick, the NIH, and the NCI. One figure
that stands out in this time period is Dr. Robert Gallo, who later achieved
fame for his HIV discovery (prior credit is often given to the French head
of the Pasteur Institute, Dr. Luc M.). I honestly have no way of recalling
if Gallo was circulating through our lab, or if the doctors I worked for
(Dr. Anne Jackson and Dr. Frederick Hyams) had contact with him.

As I learn more about this period, and the links between Hepatitus-B, AIDS,
and the timing of the big AIDS/HIV outbreak in the late 70s and early 80s,
I can't help wondering if the lab I worked in was involved in this whole
affair. A lot of things match up closely, and the absorbtion of Melpar into
E-Systems is part of the coincidences.

But all of this was a long time ago, before many of you were born.

The larger issue is that the spook side of government is only the tip of
the iceberg. For every $600 million "unindentified" building out past
Dulles Airport, eventually identified as the new headquarters of the
supersecret National Reconnaissance Organization (NRO), there are many
times as many "contractors" and "subcontractors" doing work too sensitive
even for the government to do. In fact, the unknown huge building in the
Virginia countryside was officially labelled as a Rockwell building, if I
recall correctly.)

(Readers may be familiar with Wackenhut, Science Applications, MITRE, etc.
Besides the large aerospace companies, all with large spook divisions, and
all with outlying offices doing work that few in the parent companies are
even cleared to know about.)

This is precisely the military-industrial complex that Eisenhower warned us
about in his Farewell Speech, and that Washington in effect warned us about
in _his_ speech, when he warned about foreign entanglements and foreign
wars.

Footnote: Did the U.S. government and its subcontractors develop HIV as a
biological weapon? To be tested in Africa, as some suggest? Or was it an
accident, an accident let out of the labs of the Naval Health Sciences labs
(later Litton Bionetics) the East Bay of the Bay Area (site of many early
AIDS cases)? Or is it true that HIV viruses have been found in biological
specimens preserved for 40 years? And even if some HIV-like viruses existed
in nature, could the U.S. have isolated it and concentrated it in those
labs doing the work I described in the early 70s?

I don't know the answer to these questions. As my favorite researcher into
these matters puts it, "Food for thought and grounds for further research."
(Dave Emory, whose tapes can be bought. Use web search engines to find URLs
if interested.)

One thing I know for sure, the "secret" side of government is far larger
than most people think.

--Tim May

Just Say No to "Big Brother Inside"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^3,021,377   | black markets, collapse of governments.




From owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Sun Feb 22 00:11 SGT 1998
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Subject: Last Chance ...less than 149 copies left! Plus FREE Bonus.
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You spammed to the Cypherpunks list:

>Dear Fred,
>
>The folks who produce The 1998 ULTIMATE FUTURES TRADING GUIDE,  just
>informed me that they have less than 149 copies available for sale
>
>Check it out at: http://www.marketdepot.com/products/utg/
>
>See what the GUIDE has to say about El Nino ... and what effect it will
>have on the economy and the markets and ultimately your money.

Go fuck yourself, preferably up the ass with a large metal hook.


From owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Sun Feb 22 05:58 SGT 1998
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From: Ernest Hua 
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com
Cc: Ernest Hua 
Subject: RE: Pensacola Police have lost their mind!! (fwd)
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Those of you who are parents of toddlers and have watched in horror as
other parents seem to have zero control over their children, would
understand why the school reacted this way.  Getting the police involved
may not necessarily be the "right" thing to do, but there is a LOT of
pressure on public schools to be passive or suffer the wrath of
child-abuse lawsuits.

There are many times when they respond with "we don't do things that way
..." when they should just send the kid home.  There is no middle ground
where both the school and the parents are happy, unless the parents
really care and participate.  Getting the police involved was probably
just a way for the teachers and/or the administrators to pass the buck
to someone else because they feel powerless to deal with the situation.

(Isn't this a bit off topic?  But for the police part?)

Ern

	-----Original Message-----
	From:	Jim Choate [SMTP:ravage@ssz.com]
	Sent:	Friday, February 20, 1998 7:09 PM
	To:	cypherpunks@ssz.com
	Subject:	Pensacola Police have lost their mind!! (fwd)


	Forwarded message:

	> From: "William H. Geiger III" 
	> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 98 20:27:22 -0500
	> Subject: Pensacola Police have lost their mind!!

	> I don't know if this story has reached the AP wire or not but
today the
	> brave defenders of the faith here in Pensacola, FL have done
their sworn
	> duty to protect us all by arresting a 5yr old on assault
charges (againts
	> one of the Adult staff of the school).

	It made it to CNN.

	> These are the same brave soles who a few months ago when
confronted by a
	> man sitting in his car with a gun to his head solved this
problem by
	> riddeling his car, surrounding buildings, and a McDonalds
playground with
	> over 100 rounds.
	> 
	> As soon as I have some more information on this I will post a
full report.

	Their story was that the child had a behavioral problem and the
parents
	refused to get counceling when the school requested. She
apparently goes on
	room smashing temper tantrums on a regular basis. The father of
the child
	said it was the most ludicrous thing he had ever heard of,
reportedly.

	Can't say that changes the situation a heck of a lot though...



____________________________________________________________________
	   |
|
	   |            When a man assumes a public trust, he should
|
	   |            consider himself public property.
|
	   |
|
	   |                                      Thomas Jefferson
|
	   |
|
	   |
| 
	   |            _____                             The Armadillo
Group   |
	   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx.
USA     |
	   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/
http://www.ssz.com/   |
	   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\
|
	   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim
Choate       |
	   |
ravage@ssz.com     |
	   |
512-451-7087      |

|____________________________________________________________________|


From owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Sun Feb 22 04:04 SGT 1998
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From: amp@pobox.com
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 13:45:56 -0500
Subject: Re: SF Chronicle on Sen. Dianne Feinstein: "Feinstein Offline"
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net, Tim May 
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> > Tim May  said...

=snip=
 
> > In Feinstein's view, ``This whole information thing is moving so
> > fast that one has to be sure that kids are protected,'' she said.
> > ``I'm concerned when kids blow themselves up by building bombs (they
> > learned to make) by reading things in the encyclopedia. There is a
> > philosophy that anything goes. This is why I support the repeal of
> > the First Amendment and prison terms for thought criminals."

 
> She's a buffoon who is probably the first one who'll be sent to the wall
> if there's ever a Second American Revolution.

> As for her concern about Social Security numbers being posted online, did
> it ever occur to her and her ilk that perhaps the problem is the
> widespread use of SS numbers by increasing numbers of government
> agencies, by requirements that banks use them, by requirements that motor
> vehicle departments use them, and so on?

> "Duh."
 
> The solution is not a new set of laws to felonize information like this,
> but the elimination of the SS number as a universal identifier. Far too
> late for that, of course, but Fineswine's laws won't help anybody. In
> fact, law enforcement will continue its abuse of SS numbers, its role in
> falsifying records and official documents, and so on.

Along similar lines, the state of texas recently (last year) made it 
illegal to post information such as drivers license numbers and whatnot on 
the net. The company that was doing so promptly moved its web server from 
dallas to antigua. Gee, seems like they had an effective law eh?

The problem is, the company was getting the information from the state in 
the first place. Anyone with a bit of cash can buy the entire drivers 
license database from the state of texas on CD-rom. Rather than 
criminalizing private actions, it would have been much better for the state 
to just =stop selling the information=! The databases already held would 
quickly become stale, and the problem would pretty much go away.

The state sees such things as revenue streams they are intitled to. Even 
though citizen-units cannot opt out of the database, they will sell it to 
anyone who has the $$$ they are asking for it. 

This is a great example of exactly how much respect a government agency has 
for your privacy.


For instance, here is the information contained on George Bush's drivers 
license...

Name: BUSH,GEORGE HERBERT
License number: 000173204
Address:  9 S West Oak Dr
Date of birth: 6/12/24
City/Zip code:> HOUSTON 77056-2121
Gender: MaleRace: White
Height: 6.01
Weight: 190 pounds
Eye color: Gray
Hair: Brown
Last transaction date: 3/30/93
Last transaction: Renewal



> Let's try to be sure DiFi is in D.C. when Abu Nidal makes his move.


Let's hope it takes place during a state of the union speech.


---------------End of Original Message-----------------

------------------------
Name: amp
E-mail: amp@pobox.com
Date: 02/21/98
Time: 13:45:57
Visit me at http://www.pobox.com/~amp
==
     -export-a-crypto-system-sig -RSA-3-lines-PERL
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Subject: Re: speaking of tax dollars at work...
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We've been having some interesting discussions in scruz.general, my local
newsgroup. (We get together every few months for a "scruzfest," so a sense
of community amonst the discussants has been emerging. I probably now know
more folks by sight in scruz.general than I know Cypherpunks.)

I will forward a couple of my articles.


>X-From_: tcmay@got.net Fri Feb 20 19:22:21 1998
>X-Delivered: at request of tcmay on always
>Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 19:25:17 -0800
>From: tcmay@got.net (Tim May)
>To: tcmay@got.net
>Subject: Re: speaking of tax dollars at work...
>Newsgroups: scruz.general
>Organization: None
>
>In article <6clf84$buc@news.scruz.net>, glena@armory.com (Dirt Devil) wrote:
>
>
>>
>> I am actually on somewhat shakey ground in agreeing with Tim's desire
>> to hold to the BOR, simply because they have been so perferated.
>>
>
>Sure the Amendments have been perforated, but they're all we have left.
>Even now, as various laws try to close in on controlling speech, the First
>Amendment's crystal clear "Congress shall make no law..." language is all
>we have to hold back the tide.
>
>(And it is _still_ a battle, with Brandeis' "shouting "Fire!" in a crowded
>theater" being used to justify all manner of speech restrictions.)
>
>As for the Second, equally crystal clear, the record is even shabbier.
>>From outright bans on ownership of weapons in New York, to restrictions in
>California, to moves for confiscation of all guns, the tide is _barely_
>being held back.  (As Heather noted in her earlier message, all the
>folderol about the Second referring to a state-run militia, like the
>National Guard, is pure nonsense: the Founders were worried about the
>citizenry being able to fight back, and understood that only free men are
>allowed to possess weaponry.)
>
>In all cases where there is no crystal clear, solid, indisputable,
>"Congress shall make no law..."  language, the statist and professional
>bureaucrats, aided by foolish and short-sighted voters, whittle away the
>freedoms and rights of us all.
>
>The Bill of Rights ain't enough, but it's all we've got.
>
>And it's going fast.
>
>--Tim May
>
>--
>Just Say No to "Big Brother Inside"
>---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
>Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
>ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
>W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
>Higher Power: 2^3,021,377   | black markets, collapse of governments.
>



From owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Sun Feb 22 05:59 SGT 1998
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Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 13:57:36 -0800
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From: Tim May 
Subject: Re: Anthrax--The Four Horsemen are Riding
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Another article I wrote for scruz.general.


>X-From_: tcmay@got.net Sat Feb 21 12:54:42 1998
>X-Delivered: at request of tcmay on always
>Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 12:57:39 -0800
>From: tcmay@got.net (Tim May)
>To: tcmay@got.net
>Subject: Re: Anthrax--The Four Horsemen are Riding
>Newsgroups: scruz.general
>Organization: None
>
>In article <34ee3039.1340384@cnews.newsguy.com>, mmelpremo@cruzio.com
>(mmelpremo@cruzio.com) wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 19 Feb 1998 10:34:16 -0800, tcmay@got.net (Tim May) wrote:
>>
>> >Cruzans,
>> >
>> >Here's one of my articles to the Cypherpunks list, a list FBI Director
>> >Louis Freeh recently denounced as being a haven for information
>> >terrorists. If I get busted for having a lab which the Feds decide is
>> >thoughtcrime, I want someone in Santa Cruz to know what I think about
>> >these issues.
>> 
>>
>> So, Tim, what do you think ought to be done, (if anything), about
>> Iraq?  Should we stop sanctions and let the Middle East worry about
>> him?  Should we continue sanctions?  Should we forget about UN
>> inspections?
>
>1. Nothing. Ain't my problem, ain't yours, ain't anyone else I know of's.
>
>2. Sanctions almost never work. Sanctions for 38 years on Cuba have had
>almost no effect on Castro except to consolidate his position. (Much as I
>may dislike Castro's policies, no American should be threatened with jail
>time for committing the "crime" of travelling to Cuba, or selling stuff
>they own to Cubans, or buying Cuban cigars, etc. In a free country, which
>neither the U.S. nor Cuba are, one does not criminalize actions which do
>not directly harm other persons.)
>
>3. Bombing Iraq will be unlikely to work this time any more than last
>time(s). I have no energy to recount the info being provided on CNN and
>elsewhere, but consider that the weapons inspectors themselves claimed
>that their work over the past half dozen years had more effect on getting
>rid of weapons than the bombing campaign in 1991 did. Assuming they're not
>lying, how, pray tell, does a lesser bombing than 1991 then solve the
>putative problem?
>
>4. As for the "putative problem," it is indeed putative. So Iraq has
>"weapons of mass destruction." So does Iran. So does Syria. So does
>Israel. And so on, for most of the countries in the world. (Let us not
>rant about how Iraq used WOMD on its own people, or on the Kurds. The Sovs
>used WOMD on the Afghanis...did we threaten to bomb them? How about the
>Chinese? And so on.
>
>5. I repeat, it ain't our problem. Washington (the President, not the
>pesthole) warned us to avoid foreign entanglements and foreign wars, and
>yet the U.S. squanders its money and its soldiers' lives in dozens of
>foreign wars.
>
>(There hasn't been a legitimate war since the Revolution, possibly since
>the War of 1812, in my view.)
>
>>
>> I find myself in the middle on this one.  On the one hand, I think
>> Saddam's a threat to neighboring countries (particularly Kuwait),
>> although I don't know how big a threat.  On the other hand, I agree
>> with you that America should not be Cop of the World.
>
>Countries invade other countries frequently. I didn't see us going to war
>with the Soviet Union over Afghanistan. I didn't see us going to war with
>Israel when it (several times) invaded and occupied the southern part of
>Lebanon.
>
>Ah, but the U.S. likes wars with _little_ countries. Panama, which we
>invaded because our CIA-installed leader was taking too large a share of
>the drug trade. Grenada, because it distracted attention from the 240
>Americans killed a few days before in Lebanon. Nicaragua, because we
>didn't like the leader the people had elected. Somalia, for reasons no one
>seems to be able to articulate. Bosnia, because the Europeans, in whose
>backyard the Balkan states are, decided not to bother.
>
>And so it goes.
>
>--Tim May
>
>--
>Just Say No to "Big Brother Inside"
>---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
>Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
>ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
>W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
>Higher Power: 2^3,021,377   | black markets, collapse of governments.
>



From owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Sun Feb 22 05:59 SGT 1998
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The last, for now, of the articles.

--Tim


>X-From_: tcmay@got.net Sat Feb 21 13:11:09 1998
>X-Delivered: at request of tcmay on always
>Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 13:14:07 -0800
>From: tcmay@got.net (Tim May)
>To: tcmay@got.net
>Subject: Re: Anthrax--The Four Horsemen are Riding
>Newsgroups: scruz.general
>Organization: None
>
>In article ,
>cbishop@scruznet.com wrote:
>
>> In article <6cm4nv$edi$1@shell3.ba.best.com>, obob@shell3.ba.best.com (Bob
>> O`Brien) wrote:
>>
>> > In article <34ee3039.1340384@cnews.newsguy.com>,
>> > mmelpremo@cruzio.com  wrote:
>> > >
>> > >It seems Clinton has backed himself into a corner on the situation,
>> > >and now has the choice of bombing Iraq or backing down from threats of
>> > >bombing Iraq.  Both are losing propositions.
>> > >
>> > >I'm also interested in hearing everyone else's opinions, as well,
>> > >since I'm still trying to form one.
>> > >
>> >
>> > At the end of the last "war", Saddam _personally_agreed_ to
>> > the UN's plan that would have accomplished all the inspections
>> > IN FIFTEEN DAYS.
>> >
>> > [Bob's for military action agains Iraq]
>>
>> If the UN had accomplished the inspections in fifteen days, would they
>> have been done and not done any more inspections?
>
>
>The realpolik of it all is that the last thing the "Oil Patch" wants is
>Iraq pumping a couple million barrels of oil and selling it on the world
>market.
>
>When oil prices plummeted in the mid-80s, Texas was hit hardly. Texas oil
>men were wiped out, refineries were closed, and the seeds of the S&L
>collapse were nurtured. (The seeds of the S&L collapse were of course
>planted when the government agreed to bail out banks and S&Ls, regardless
>of the risks they took.)
>
>Many of George Bush's friends, and even his own investments (Zapata, for
>example), were affected.
>
>Iraq was expected to pump more of the oil from the disputed oilfields than
>the Kuwaitis were willing to pump.
>
>As the war evolved, oil prices went up, and the Texans were partly saved.
>
>Having any final settlement of the Iraqi situation, and thus having them
>further depress the world oil price, would be unacceptable to the Oil
>Boys.
>
>Oil prices have been falling again, even with Iraq out of the oil market.
>Prices for light sweet crude are down to around $16 a barrel, maybe less.
>Texas is feeling the pinch again.
>
>A coincidence that the saber rattling suddenly is picking up?
>
>Wouldn't it be great for the Oil Boys if a war with Iraq spread, and maybe
>took out the Kuwaiti and even Saudi oil fields? Oil at $30 a barrel would
>shure be a purty sight to them good ole boys.
>
>Call me a cynic, but nothing is as simple as the sheeple are being led to
>believe.
>
>--Tim May
>
>--
>Just Say No to "Big Brother Inside"
>---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
>Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
>ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
>W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
>Higher Power: 2^3,021,377   | black markets, collapse of governments.
>



From owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Sun Feb 22 04:40 SGT 1998
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From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 98 14:30:32 -0500
To: Tim May 
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In , on 02/21/98 
   at 10:22 AM, Tim May  said:

>At 6:13 AM -0800 2/21/98, William H. Geiger III wrote:

>>Well you have definatly jumped off the deep end on this one Tim. If we
>>were talking a teenager going out of control then I would agree with you.
>>A 5 year old though??
>>
>>>If a teacher can't defend herself, legally and professionally, from
>>>children biting and throwing chairs, the cops have to be called.
>>
>>If a teacher can not subdue and control a 5 year old little girl without
>>resorting to physical violence or calling in the storm troopers it's time
>>to look for another line of work.

>My sister teaches Kindergarten/first grade in the LA County School
>District, specifically, Inglewood (shudder). She is forbidden to:

>- physically touch the children in any way

>- discipline them in any meaningful way

>- flunk them if they fail to behave or learn what is supposedly required

>("Flunking Kindergarten" is tough, so where this rule really become
>significant is in the higher grades, where all kids are promoted, even
>those who can't read, can't add, etc.)

>My sister says the teachers have zero power to do anything, and the kids
>know it.

Well looks like she needs either to move or look at a career change.

Yes the laws in CA are fucked that does not excuse the actions here in FL
by the school and the local stormtroopers.

>>When have you ever been so quick to blindly believe the spindoctoring of
>>the government Tim?
>>

>Spare me the casual insults.

>I call things as I see them. I've heard no spin-doctoring, just reports
>of the child's behavior, admitted by her father.

So one temper-tantrum by a 5 year old and its off to the BigHouse on
Felony Assault Charges??

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html                        
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: MASOCHIST: Windows SDK programmer with a smile!

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  Hi


From owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Sun Feb 22 05:00 SGT 1998
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From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 98 14:53:49 -0500
To: amp@pobox.com
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In , on 02/21/98 
   at 01:45 PM, amp@pobox.com said:

>The problem is, the company was getting the information from the state in
> the first place. Anyone with a bit of cash can buy the entire drivers 
>license database from the state of texas on CD-rom. Rather than 
>criminalizing private actions, it would have been much better for the
>state  to just =stop selling the information=! The databases already held
>would  quickly become stale, and the problem would pretty much go
>away.

No the solution is to remove the power of the State to collect the
information in the first place. I don't want anyone to have this
information regardless if it be in private hands or some government
buracrats hands.

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
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- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: What I like about MS is its loyalty to customers!

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  Hi


From owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Sun Feb 22 00:11 SGT 1998
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From: "Attila T. Hun" 
Reply-to: "Attila T. Hun" 
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 98 15:02:50 +0000
To: Bill Stewart ,
        "Eric J. Tune" ,
        cypherpunks 
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980220214430.008be9a0@popd.ix.netcom.com>
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on or about 980220:2144, in <3.0.5.32.19980220214430.008be9a0@popd.ix.netcom.com>, 
    Bill Stewart  was purported to have 
    expostulated to perpetuate an opinion:

    [snip]
>...
>>    absolutely. misplaced criticism and a personal offense to me
>>    as well as all other servicemen.

>Sending US soldiers in to do a fool's errand like that should offend you
>even more.   
>
    absolutely, the government has obviously offended me more by
    its incredible stupidity: Vietnam, Somalia, Panama,
    Honduras, and the rest of their ill-conceived police actions
    and meddling; installing Khadafi, Hussein, the Shah, Nasser,
    whatever his name is in Syria, etc.; and now, the incredible
    attempt of Bubba to cover his domestic problems of an
    insatiable wandering dick with a "surgical" strike on the 
    long suffering Iraqi population who will again be the 
    collateral damage which doesn't happen (at least in theory).

    all the U.S. gains is an Iraqi population who hate the U.S.
    even more for our stupidity and therefore turn to Saddam who
    at least gives them pride, even if it does not feed their
    children --not to mention the enmity of the rest of the Arab
    world. even Iran is supporting Iraq which ought to tell us
    something.  

    Pax Americana --yeah, Americana it is, but where's the Pax? 

    if Bubba's going to press the button, he might as well press
    the big one and leave everything east of the beaches in Tel
    Aviv, all the way to Burma, a glass parking lot.

    out of the ashes of Iraq and the American morality, dont be
    surprised to see the man in the blue turban rise like the
    phoenix...

>And telling a free people that they should give up the guns
>they protect their families with because
>the UN will take care of protecting them is an offense to them.
>
    well, as I said: I have no regrets for what I did, but I
    sure as hell have regrets for whom I did the deeds. the
    sorry bastards who claim to be "my" government have no
    claim on my respect. 

    as I said before: is it not odd that the more the government
    tries to abridge our freedom of speech, the more they want
    to confiscate our weapons?

    a well-armed populace is a threat to a corrupt, suppressive
    government; the first step in subjugating the American 
    population to become part of the UN/NWO "family" is to 
    confiscate personal arms in the name of public safety --or,
    the fear of criminal actions by loose cannons, etc. 

    arms registration is the first step towards confiscation.

    I've been trying to find something about that pack of 
    thieves trying to deify themselves that has not earned my
    contempt. I'll announce it, when I find it, but dont hold 
    your breath.


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From owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Sun Feb 22 02:47 SGT 1998
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From: fnorky@geocities.com (Douglas L. Peterson)
To: Curtis Yarvin 
Cc: ichudov@Algebra.COM, cypherpunks@Algebra.COM, cyarvin@geoworks.com
Subject: Re: Digital copy prot3ction
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 18:39:23 GMT
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On Thu, 19 Feb 1998 18:59:25 -0800 (PST), you wrote:

>
>> 
>> I can hardly believe that any of these schemes are undefeatable.
>> 
>> As soon as the CPU starts talking to a video and sound board, 
>> this whole thing becomes easily breakable. All one needs to do is
>> to capture the signals that go to these boards and re-record them.
>
>In general, there's no way of building a secure system that
>prevents copying of information, but permits its consumption.
>The two are too closely related.
>
>The best you could do is a tamper-resistant hardware key on
>the audio/video card.  (This locks you into a design where
>the content is decoded on the card, which may be suboptimal.)
>And anyone who can crack the crypto chip can get unprotected
>digital copies and distribute them.  This is probably doable
>by the same kind of people who set up pirate CD factories.


Ala VideoCypher from the 80's.  It didn't take much to cause the cpu
in the box to spill its guts.  Then again, it may have been because
the cpu was from TI.

-Doug
-------------------
Douglas L. Peterson
mailto:fnorky@geocities.com
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Heights/1271/


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To: Anonymous , cypherpunks@toad.com, cryptography@c2.net
From: "James A. Donald" 
Subject: Re: US law on re-exporting crypto software?
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    --
At 06:49 PM 2/19/98 -0500, Anonymous wrote:
> An article in the current issue of the German journal 
> `Datenschutz und Datensicherheit' claims that exporting 
> crypto software from anywhere outside the US to a third 
> country violates US law if the software contains (only 
> marginal amounts of) US-developed code, such as a C  
> standard library, and that anyone distributing crypto 
> software that has been compiled with an American compiler 
> had better not visit the United States.  Is that true?

No one knows what the laws on cryptography in the US are, 
least of all the courts or the lawyers.

There is a law against exporting armaments, or indeed doing 
diddly squat with armaments, and the bureaucrats have decreed 
crypto an armament, however they have displayed profound 
reluctance to take this issue to court, so the implications 
of such a law, and such a definition remain entirely unknown.

However since no one has yet been actually indicted, it is 
unlikely that you will be the first.  

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     MukYGG/TcTpm9PDncEpXfT4BfC8t7mVXt7WWsJtm
     42je0WMVidgZLmeFqZcxiIvUBWPKVWWUER4SS70Ko
 ---------------------------------------------------------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because of 
the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this right, 
not from the arbitrary power of the state.

http://www.jim.com/jamesd/


From owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Sun Feb 22 02:47 SGT 1998
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From: fnorky@geocities.com (Douglas L. Peterson)
To: Jim Choate 
Cc: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Digital copy prot3ction (fwd)
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 18:40:57 GMT
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On Thu, 19 Feb 1998 20:41:16 -0600 (CST), you wrote:

>
>Forwarded message:
>
>> Subject: Digital copy prot3ction
>> Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 20:16:49 -0600 (CST)
>> From: ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home)
>
>> I can hardly believe that any of these schemes are undefeatable.
>> 
>> As soon as the CPU starts talking to a video and sound board, 
>> this whole thing becomes easily breakable. All one needs to do is
>> to capture the signals that go to these boards and re-record them.
>> 
>> Right?
>
>> The proposed technology would have no effect on televisions, video
>> cassette recorders or computers already in use, the paper said.
>
>I suspect that this part is the key, what they will propose is some
>mechanism to alter the chipsets from the one currently implimented. Expect
>them to impliment something similar to the DAT tape systems where the machine
>won't execute a copy function if it sees the correct signal.

I do hope it is like the DAT tape systems.  They are relatively easy
to get around.

-Doug
-------------------
Douglas L. Peterson
mailto:fnorky@geocities.com
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Heights/1271/


From owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Sun Feb 22 03:10 SGT 1998
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From: fnorky@geocities.com (Douglas L. Peterson)
To: Ken Williams 
Cc: Information Security , cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Fwd: Big Brother Sees through walls (from the spyking list)
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 18:57:25 GMT
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On Sat, 21 Feb 1998 07:45:20 -0500 (EST), you wrote:

>
>On Fri, 20 Feb 1998, Information Security wrote:
>
>>   >   From: sunder 
>>   >   
>>   >   1)From: "George Martin" 
>>   >   Subject: News Release: High-Tech Surveillance
>>   >   
>>   >   Here's a sampling of how state and federal agencies are using this
>>   >   terrifying technology to spy on Americans:
>>   >   
>>   >   * In North Carolina, county governments use high-resolution spy satellite
>>   >   photographs to search for property improvements that might increase
>>   >   property tax assessments.
>>
>>Was this cost authorized by taxpayers?
>>
>
>I have lived in Raleigh, North Carolina my entire life (over 30 yrs).
>County governments consist of an elected board of commissioners who have
>the power to make such decisions and expenditures without holding public
>hearings on these matters.  Unless the local media jumps on one of these
>proposals weeks in advance, nobody will even know about it or have an
>opportunity to petition for a public hearing.  Once the county
>commisioners vote on and approve it, our money is spent and the public has
>no recourse (until the next election).  Here in Raleigh, Wake County, NC,
>for instance, we have a Republican county commissioner and a board of
>members.  When I heard from his daughter, a personal friend, about his
>plans to cut funding to drug education and rehab programs and redirect all
>of those funds to the county prison system, I decided to act.  I contacted
>the commissioner himself, his office, and even had lunch with his wife and
>daughter to discuss this issue.  As a family friend, I thought I would at
>least be able to get a friendly, receptive ear.  His wife and daughter
>were in full agreement with me, but the commissioner dismissed all of my
>suggestions and pleas.  In fact, he told me that I was "high on crack" for
>even suggesting that he *not* cut spending to drug education and rehab
>programs.  i then appealed to the media, the public, and various county
>drug rehab and education facilities and tried to petition for public
>hearings on the issue.  After getting stonewalled by the GOP-controlled
>county board of commissioners, funding to drug rehab and education
>programs was cut by over 50%.  Since that time (two years ago), drug
>arrests and convictions, violent crime, murder, non-violent crimes,
>and admissions to treatment centers have all risen, in all of the basic
>statistical measurement categories.
>
>Wake county taxes have increased dramatically (almost 50%), and we have
>just completed building a new county jail and several county jail annex
>facilities.  In both percentage and numbers, our county jail population is
>at the highest rate it has ever been.
>
>On a related note, seven of the Wake county sherriff's deputies, who all
>had laptop computers (with Internet access) in their cruisers, were
>recently busted for spending all of their time on the clock surfing the
>web and going to porno websites and adult chatrooms.  One of the deputies
>has been arrested for using a sherriff's department scanner to scan in a
>picture of his genitals which he then sent to a young girl, a minor, from
>his cruiser while on duty.
>
>Additionally, the officer in charge of the weapons armory for the
>sherriff's department, which contains full-auto weapons such as the HK MP5
>and the M16, was recently dismissed because it was discovered that he had
>been spending all of his time on the clock in another section of the
>building surfing adult sites on the web.  Meanwhile, the armory was left
>unlocked, deputies were unable to get their weapons serviced within a
>reasonable period of time, and an M16 "disappeared".
>
>My tax dollars at work...

May I suggest trying what we did here in Colorado.  Take a look at our
Taxpayers Bill of Rights.  No government in Colorado (state, county or
local) can raise taxes without putting the measure before the public
for a vote.  We have, for the time being, tied the hands of the
government.  They can't just spend money and expect to raise taxes to
cover the short fall.

It took 5 state wide elections to amend the constitution, but the
public finely wised up.  Each election, the State would promise to
change their spending habits.  They broke that promise every time,
once within days of the election.

We have also, on a few occasions, amended our state constitution to
force the government to fund specific items (Education for one) before
any other items may be funded.

If your North Carolina allows the public to patition to have a measure
put before the public in an election, try doing it.  It's not perfect,
but it might send a clear message to the government.

-Doug

p.s.
  Please forgive the grammar errors.  I suffer from using a Microsoft
spelling checker that likes to change the meaning of my words.
-------------------
Douglas L. Peterson
mailto:fnorky@geocities.com
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Heights/1271/


From owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Sun Feb 22 03:14 SGT 1998
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From: fnorky@geocities.com (Douglas L. Peterson)
To: ulf@fitug.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ulf_M=F6ller?=)
Cc: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: "carefully monitor the Internet"
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 19:02:23 GMT
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On Fri, 20 Feb 1998 18:38:04 +0100 (GMT+0100), you wrote:

>
>   To keep pace with the fast-moving money launders, FAFT said it would
>   carefully monitor the Internet and so-called electronic purse systems,
>   whereby cash is passed from person to person via electronic chips,
>   leaving no audit trail in its wake.
>
>http://www.yahoo.com/headlines/980212/wired/stories/money_2.html
>http://www.oecd.org/fatf/

Hmm, lets see.  I login using secure shell.  Now I start a SSL session
to someplace where I want to exchange money.  Next I use e-cash.  The
monitor will see encrypted garbage.

Quick, kick in the door.  He is using encryption!  Must be money
launders!

-Doug


-------------------
Douglas L. Peterson
mailto:fnorky@geocities.com
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Heights/1271/


From owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Sun Feb 22 09:34 SGT 1998
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From: Eric Cordian 
Message-Id: <199802220128.TAA04522@wire.insync.net>
Subject: Re: Pensacola Police have lost their mind!! (fwd)
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 19:28:44 -0600 (CST)
In-Reply-To: <413AC08141DBD011A58000A0C924A6D50D7DA6@MVS2> from "Ernest Hua" at Feb 21, 98 01:43:33 pm
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Ern writes:

> Those of you who are parents of toddlers and have watched in horror as
> other parents seem to have zero control over their children, would
> understand why the school reacted this way.  Getting the police involved
> may not necessarily be the "right" thing to do, but there is a LOT of
> pressure on public schools to be passive or suffer the wrath of
> child-abuse lawsuits. 

Florida is a corporal punishment state where teachers may slap, hit, beat,
paddle, manhandle, and otherwise bully students in their charge, without
parental permission, and "educators" are protected by laws which make even
laying a finger on them a crime comparable with beating an elected
official to a blody pulp. 

So one Florida five year old gets bent out of shape and tries to tear a
school employee to shreds? 

Unremarkable. 

If five year olds in places like Vermont and Connecticut, where teachers
are actually restrained by laws which limit their behavior, begin to do
similar things, then I will begin to take notice. 

However incidents like this, and even mass shootings in places like Texas,
simply show that the press gives more attention to retaliation by slaves,
than it does to atrocities by slave owners.

-- 
Eric Michael Cordian 0+
O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division
"Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"


From owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Sun Feb 22 03:12 SGT 1998
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Tim May is spot on about the feral kid. Yet, battering the 
clone bruises the produce and harms sales.

Kids are over-coddled species and that's the cause of the 
rise in black market of kiddie porn, kidnapping, rape, incest 
and murder, what with crazed adults (parents and wannabes) 
wanting to develop for home domination hyper-valued Benets, 
since they're worth more on the market as icons than as 
needy brats begging for affection and attention, and interfering 
with dad and mom getting on with maximum self-indulgence.

And there's way too many kids, anyhow, the market's saturated. 
Especially those over the age of adorable cuddling and grandma 
gaga for adverts. Harvest all over the age of two, say, when they 
become unruly, as the Brit pedophagist proposed for the Irish 
surplus to solve the famine. Shut the day cares, schools, colleges,
boot camps for homicidals. Unplug the Net for those under 30,
they're more socially useful as protein, as anciently preached
by St. Peter's Eunuchs.

Eat the kids, doom the race. Evolution stops with the me-gen.

The technical solution to the after-me-nada agribusiness is set out in 
Tim's aggra-sig:

Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^3,021,377   | black markets, collapse of governments.


From owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Sun Feb 22 10:55 SGT 1998
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From: Jim Choate 
Message-Id: <199802220302.VAA31933@einstein.ssz.com>
Subject: Pseudorandomness and Cryptographic Applications [Book]
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
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Hi,

Pseudorandomness and Cryptographic Applications
Michael Luby
ISBN 0-691-02546-0
~$25 US

Discusses techniques to take one-way functions and produce pseudo-random
number generators. The second half of the book discusses various
applications of these algorithms.

private key cryptosystems
pseudorandom function generators
pseudorandom permutation generators
digital signature schemes
bit commitment protocols
zero-knowledge interactive proof systems


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |            When a man assumes a public trust, he should            |
   |            consider himself public property.                       |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                      Thomas Jefferson              |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|


From owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Sun Feb 22 11:42 SGT 1998
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Forwarded message:

> Date: 22 Feb 1998 03:31:35 -0000
> From: Secret Squirrel 
> Subject: Vile Vial Files

>  Hopefully it'll pass. Apologies if this hits the list more than once.>

I've seen something similar a couple of times now. What other kinds of
anomolies are you experiencing that indicate a breakdown in the CDR?


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |            When a man assumes a public trust, he should            |
   |            consider himself public property.                       |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                      Thomas Jefferson              |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|


From owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Sun Feb 22 12:29 SGT 1998
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Subject: One Anthrax suspect released [CNN]
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Forwarded message:

>                ONE SUSPECT IN ANTHRAX CASE RELEASED FROM CUSTODY
>                                        
>      Leavitt Leavitt   February 21, 1998
>      Web posted at: 10:08 p.m. EST (0308 GMT)
>      
>      LAS VEGAS, Nev. (CNN) -- One of the two men arrested for posession
>      of what turned out to be non-lethal anthrax was released from
>      custody Saturday evening.
>      
>      William Leavitt Jr., 47, thanked God, his family, law enforcement
>      officials, a federal magistrate judge and his lawyers for getting
>      him out of prison on his own recognizance, saying the past three
>      days have been the "most difficult days of my life."
>      
>      Leavitt and Larry Wayne Harris, 46, were arrested Wednesday night
>      and charged with conspiracy to possess and possession of a
>      biological agent.
>      
>      Leavitt's release came just hours after FBI agents raided the
>      microbiologist's home north of Las Vegas in search of more evidence.

[text deleted]


    ____________________________________________________________________
   |                                                                    |
   |            When a man assumes a public trust, he should            |
   |            consider himself public property.                       |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                      Thomas Jefferson              |
   |                                                                    |
   |                                                                    | 
   |            _____                             The Armadillo Group   |
   |         ,::////;::-.                           Austin, Tx. USA     |
   |        /:'///// ``::>/|/                     http://www.ssz.com/   |
   |      .',  ||||    `/( e\                                           |
   |  -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-                         Jim Choate       |
   |                                                 ravage@ssz.com     |
   |                                                  512-451-7087      |
   |____________________________________________________________________|


From owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Sun Feb 22 14:52 SGT 1998
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At 8:08 PM -0800 2/21/98, Attila T. Hun wrote:

>    sprynet: "the site has been taken down and there will be
>              no further information available."

Just like the Heaven's Gate site.

Interesting that the U.S.  Government uses a twice-convicted fraudster
selling a snake oil medical device as its confidential informant.

Here's to hoping Harris and Leavitt sue for false arrest. Last Olympics it
was Richard Jewell, this Olympics it's these guys.

But the corrections are being given less coverage than the original lurid,
headline news, so the Administration will have gotten what it wanted.

Disgraceful.

--Tim May

Just Say No to "Big Brother Inside"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^3,021,377   | black markets, collapse of governments.




From owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Sun Feb 22 12:14 SGT 1998
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To: dstoler 
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On Sat, 21 Feb 1998, dstoler wrote:

>I would like to know the information my browser makes available to web sites. I use both Netscape and Internet Explorer.
>
>Obviously web sites can determine my IP address for any given session; they can also look at cookies left by themselves and other sites.
>
>Can anyone point me to where I can learn exactly what other information is made available (browser version?, OS version?, system name?, user name?, etc.)?
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>David
>
>
>

check these out...

Your Environmental Variables
http://152.7.11.38/~tattooman/variable.cgi

Your Privacy Online
http://www4.ncsu.edu/~jkwilli2/browserscript.html

So Much for your Privacy...
http://www4.ncsu.edu/~jkwilli2/main/NO_Privacy.html


if you want copies of any of these scripts and snippets, then feel free to
grab them off of my ftp server at
ftp://152.7.11.38/pub/personal/tattooman/
check in the "javascript", "java" and "code" subdirectories.

email me if you have any questions, comments, etc...

regards,

TATTOOMAN

/--------------------------[   TATTOOMAN   ]--------------------------\
| ORG: NC State Computer Science Dept    VP of The  E. H. A. P. Corp. |
| EML: jkwilli2@adm.csc.ncsu.edu         ehap@hackers.com             |
| EML: jkwilli2@unity.ncsu.edu           ehap-secure@hackers.com      |
| WWW: http://www4.ncsu.edu/~jkwilli2/   http://www.hackers.com/ehap/ |
| FTP: ftp://152.7.11.38/pub/personal/tattooman/                      |
| W3B: http://152.7.11.38/~tattooman/w3board/                         |
| PGP: finger tattooman@152.7.11.38                                   |
\----------------[   http://152.7.11.38/~tattooman/  ]----------------/



From owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Sun Feb 22 15:18 SGT 1998
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At 10:11 PM -0800 2/21/98, Brad wrote:
>It occurs to me that society has been restructured so that "the
>authorities" are the only ones permitted to fix many sorts of
>commonly-encountered problems  which individual citizens used to be able
>to take care of themselves. Like spanking a spoiled 5 year old child
>instead of charging her with a felony.  Further, said authorities have
>great and arbitrary powers to fix things however they want.
>
>Combine this regular dependence on arbitrary authority with an Orwellian
>database of Good Citizens and Troublemakers in the hands of that authority
>and what have you got?  A cowed citizenry, to say the least.

I don't disagree with the larger point.

The solution is the one libertarians have argued for for many years:
provide choice in schools. Then a school could pick and choose its pupils,
and vice versa.

But with the system as it stands now, a child who throws chairs, bites,
kicks, and whatnot needs to be dealt with.

One of the very few legitimate functions of a government is police action.
Against assaults, by assaulters of whatever age.

While we may think it is "ludicrous" for the police to be called in,
consider the alternative. Is the teacher supposed to allow herself to be
hit over the head with chairs, even if wielded by 5-year-olds?

The system is fucked up, to be sure. But automatically arguing that the
school should not have called in the police given the constraints they are
under is foolish.

--Tim May

Just Say No to "Big Brother Inside"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^3,021,377   | black markets, collapse of governments.




From owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Sun Feb 22 12:16 SGT 1998
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Remailer validation. Ignore.


From owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Sun Feb 22 15:21 SGT 1998
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From: "James A. Donald" 
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    --
Rick Smith  writes:
> > I admit I can't figure out what crypto mechanism Kong is 
> > really using since there's obfuscating talk of 
> > passphrases and secrets.

At 12:06 AM 12/6/97 GMT, Adam Back wrote:
> What James describes on the page is that he is storing the 
> private EC key in a file.  The file is optionally encrypted 
> with a passphrase.

No

The file, if you have one, is merely a continuation of the  
passphrase.

The secret key is generated on the fly from the passphrase,  
the file, and the name:

In my web page "How Kong Works"  I write:

       To generate our secret key, your computer hashes the  
       passphrase, the secret file, and the name, to generate 
       a big number, a two hundred and forty bit number. That 
       is a number somewhere around 1000 000 000 000 000 000 
       000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000  
       000 000 000 000 000 

       So the secret generated from your secret key is really 
       a very big number. 

       The public key, which appears in your signature, is an 
       elliptic point, the generator multiplied by that  
       number. This point is represented by the x coordinate 
       of the elliptic point, a 255 bit number, plus a sign  
       bit, represented in base 64 format. 

 Rick Smith
> > Since Kong does not use certificates, it is vulnerable to 
> > the Man in the Middle (MIM) attack and indeed to forgery.

Not so.

For example how could a man in the middle pass himself off as 
the author of Crypto Kong?

> > However, I also suspect that the behavior of a long lived 
> > cyberspace identity would make a MIM attack detectable 
> > and/or impractical in the long run.

Exactly so.

Any document is potentially a certificate. 

Commonly you wish to link a document to network reputation, 
rather than a physical person.  For this purpose PGP key 
signing parties are largely irrelevant.   Verisign 
certificates primarily work to link your digital signature to 
your credit rating, and thus, unfortunately, also liink your 
digital signature to the number of the beast.

At present there is insufficient internet commerce for a 
credit rating not linked to the number of the beast to be 
useful, though this may change in the future.

> In general John Doe's strategy to avoid being the subject 
> of a MITM attack should be to be unpredictable in the 
> channels he uses for authentication and communication.

John Doe usually wishes to avoid a MITM attack because his 
reputation is valuable.  He fears Malloc will use that 
reputation for Mallocs own purposes.

If John Doe's reputation is valuable, he has emitted many 
communications over a lengthy time.

If these are signed, and each signature contains John Doe's 
public key, Malloc cannot perform a man in the middle attack,
and thus cannot steal John Doe's reputation, or use it for
his own purposes. 

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     KsnYz0T1NR0Dp/XX6Pri0xg59C+MF79KO/GUuXZW
     49sq/p4ywrtYwg1Kl/PsTHBHGYfBfWYLF6pkKH+UU

>
>
>Interlock protocols are another method of complicating the MITM's
>task.  If Joe develops the habit of posting the hash of messages he is
>about to post a day in advance, the MITM must think of something to
>say also, and publish the hash, so that it can publish something a day
>later.
>
>As the MITM's messages now don't match with what Joe said, the MITM
>has to lie some more to keep up the game.  We would like to overload
>the MITM so that his task of lying becomes computationally infeasible.
>
>Adam
>
>
 ---------------------------------------------------------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because of 
the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this right, 
not from the arbitrary power of the state.

http://www.jim.com/jamesd/


From owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Sun Feb 22 15:21 SGT 1998
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Subject: Who is netcash?
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    --
The netcash site
http://www.netbank.com/~netcash/ncquick1.html contains no
obvious information as to who they are.

The netcash people are effectively anonymous.

This is a little strange for an organization that solicits 
people to deposit money with them.

Who is netbank/netcash?


    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     VojePU/6xWQxNtczN+1p6+8bVR16XMeSMVa5NDMn
     4j4e1Z788YGIc8/VPlppxukDbo+BWge0b8JpDxPOb
 ---------------------------------------------------------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because of 
the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this right, 
not from the arbitrary power of the state.

http://www.jim.com/jamesd/


From owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Sun Feb 22 15:41 SGT 1998
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Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 23:33:05 -0800
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From: Lee Tien 
Subject: Re: US law on re-exporting crypto software?
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At 3:49 PM -0800 2/19/98, Anonymous wrote:
>An article in the current issue of the German journal `Datenschutz und
>Datensicherheit' claims that exporting crypto software from anywhere
>outside the US to a third country violates US law if the software
>contains (only marginal amounts of) US-developed code, such as a C
>standard library, and that anyone distributing crypto software that
>has been compiled with an American compiler had better not visit the
>United States.  Is that true?

Probably not.  I can see why someone might think that, though.  I'm doing
this from recollection, not research; corrections are welcome.

Obviously, US law says that US crypto software is export-controlled,
including re-exports.

Under EAR (Commerce export regs) a minimum content rule takes account of
how US-ness dilutes, e.g., a US part is US but if it's incorporated into a
foreign car that doesn't make the foreign car US.

Exception:  no minimum content rule for crypto items.  Take the PGP plug-in
for Eudora and integrate it into a foreign OS.  Even if that's the only
crypto in the OS it's enough.  Can't dilute US-ness of US crypto.

The hypo by Anonymous, however, presumes US code that isn't crypto code.
Foreign crypto is mixed with US non-crypto code.  That's different.

I've heard of no US action in this regard; be interested to know of any.
Other countries also have minimum content rules, e.g., Canada.  But Canada,
I heard, has no crypto exception.  So at some point, I think, a crypto item
stops being US under Canadian export law, but still is US under US law.
Obvious conflict.

Lee Tien





From owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Sun Feb 22 14:26 SGT 1998
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From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 98 00:10:59 -0500
To: Rabid Wombat 
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In , on 02/21/98

   at 07:39 AM, Rabid Wombat  said:

>> >I call things as I see them. I've heard no spin-doctoring, just reports
>> >of the child's behavior, admitted by her father.
>> 
>> So one temper-tantrum by a 5 year old and its off to the BigHouse on
>> Felony Assault Charges??

>>From the sound if it; this was not "one tantrum", but a pattern of 
>behavior that the parents failed to address after being requested to do
>so.

>Would you want your children class with another child who repeatedly went
> into room-smashing rages with no appearant consequences for such
>behavior???

>Sounds like the parents failed to "get around to" the counseling, and the
> school forced the issue.

Would you like to provide any references on this?

There was no mention of a "pattern of behavior" in any of the local
coverage. Sounds more like CYA by the school board after this incident
drew the attention of the national media.

BTW how would you like *your* child arrested and booked on Felony charges
for what appears to be a rather minor incident.

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html                        
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: OS/2: Logic, not magic.

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  Hi


From owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Sun Feb 22 15:00 SGT 1998
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From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 98 00:36:50 -0500
To: Jim Choate 
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Cc: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer),
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In <199802220436.WAA32688@einstein.ssz.com>, on 02/21/98 
   at 10:36 PM, Jim Choate  said:

>>                ONE SUSPECT IN ANTHRAX CASE RELEASED FROM CUSTODY

This brings up a topic that I have addressed in the past on the list:

The criminalization of Scientific Research outside of federal approved
research centers.

Any type of research or even basic labwork is immpossible without catching
the eye of the federal governemnt. Purching of lab equipment, chemicals,
biological agents, growth mediums, ...ect either are outright baned from
individuls from purchasing or your purchase gets a quick call to the Feds
by an every increasing army of narcs.

Add to this the mear possesion of scientific data will classify you as a
"terrorist", and a white suppremist, and a right wing militia nut, and
whatever other convienient label the governemnet can use to instill fear
in the sheeple (20 yrs ago it would be communist subversive).

Thank god Einstein, Curie, Pasture, Edison, ... etc didn't get their start
today.

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html                        
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: If at first you don't succeed, work for Microsoft.

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  Hi


From owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Sun Feb 22 15:14 SGT 1998
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From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 98 01:04:54 -0500
To: Eric Cordian 
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In <199802220128.TAA04522@wire.insync.net>, on 02/21/98 
   at 07:28 PM, Eric Cordian  said:

>and "educators" are protected by laws which make even
>laying a finger on them a crime comparable with beating an elected
>official to a blody pulp. 

Well you were the first one to pick up on this. Here in the lovely state
of FL being an educator or elected offical gives you extra protections
compaired to thoses extended to the rest of the citizens. If anyone
re-reads the article I posted you will see that she was not charged with a
standard Assault charge but with a Felony Assult on an Educator or Elected
Official.

I guess some Pigs are more equal than others...

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html                        
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: MASOCHIST: Windows SDK programmer with a smile!

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  Hi


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Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 01:11:09 -0500 (EST)
From: Brad 
Reply-To: Brad 
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Some children are rabid and need to be put down
In-Reply-To: 
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It occurs to me that society has been restructured so that "the
authorities" are the only ones permitted to fix many sorts of
commonly-encountered problems  which individual citizens used to be able
to take care of themselves. Like spanking a spoiled 5 year old child
instead of charging her with a felony.  Further, said authorities have
great and arbitrary powers to fix things however they want.

Combine this regular dependence on arbitrary authority with an Orwellian
database of Good Citizens and Troublemakers in the hands of that authority
and what have you got?  A cowed citizenry, to say the least.

bd



On Sat, 21 Feb 1998, Tim May wrote:

> At 6:13 AM -0800 2/21/98, William H. Geiger III wrote:
> 
> >Well you have definatly jumped off the deep end on this one Tim. If we
> >were talking a teenager going out of control then I would agree with you.
> >A 5 year old though??
> >
> >>If a teacher can't defend herself, legally and professionally, from
> >>children biting and throwing chairs, the cops have to be called.
> >
etc.



From owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Sun Feb 22 15:22 SGT 1998
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From: "William H. Geiger III" 
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In-Reply-To: 
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In , on 02/22/98 
   at 03:58 AM, Secret Squirrel  said:


>On Wed, 28 Jan 1998 10:29:32 GMT, Adam Back  wrote:
>>enough anyway, as anyone can verify looking at www.replay.com where a
>>good collection of 128 bit browsers can be obtained.

>Perhaps someone from this list would be kind enough to explain to the
>obviously ignorant just how one manages to DL from replay.com  without
>encountering the following problem:



>|Forbidden

>|You don't have permission to access /security/browsers/128bit/CommunicatorUS-v401-Pro/windows/cp16d401.exe on this
>|server.

>|There was also some additional information available about the error:
>|[Mon Feb 16 21:13:24 1998] access to
>|/pub/WWW/www.replay.com/security/browsers/128bit/CommunicatorUS-v401-Pro/windows/cp16d401.exe
>|failed for xxxxxx.xxxxx.xxxxx.xxx, reason: file permissions deny server execution 



>I have tried DLing this file (and others) from more than one server,  and
>at different times, but encounter the same error each time, so  obviously
>I don't know what I am doing. Any help would be appreciated.  Thanks in
>advance!

No problems here.

I sugest that you dump the WebBrowser and learn how to use FTP.


- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html                        
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: How do you make Windows faster?  Throw it harder!

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3a-sha1
Charset: cp850
Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000

iQCVAwUBNO/Cro9Co1n+aLhhAQFLTAP/e3r133LNbKYpOGNZ976oxcmr4uJlfCne
gRzwITysX8hxaF+3PO4QnksCvQ3JNb/AlmCE3S25ZutUSupXa/la11Hzzre+TMty
BE1j3jxS9n3BNl5KDs80H9FCuPIwdttHnKumAXWojMJBaxhB2iOwfRpzFgVjPuSK
mcUxmyhlRcY=
=5JmA
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

  Hi


From owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Sun Feb 22 09:27 SGT 1998
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Timothy May wrote:

>(One can asssume that with more and more such things being added to the
>"watch lists" each year, that there will be less acceptance of cash, or
>anonymous digital cash, for such purchases.)

I tried to buy some chemicals down here with cash about six months ago. They
tried everything they could to get me to write a check and in the end I
stormed out of the building, leaving the merchandise on the counter. I
haven't been back yet, and there's probably a good chance that the security
camera footage was sent to the FBI. Come to think of it, that would explain
some rather wierd incidents I've observed since then.

People say that the only reason to pay in cash is if you have something to
hide. You're damned right. The last thing I want is a bunch of government 
shills keeping track of what I buy so that they can stage some raid because 
they have a record of me paying for a beaker "which could be used" to mix 
chemicals which "could be used" as explosives, or metal "which could be 
used" to make thermite which "could be used" for some nefarious purpose.

In America today if you have interests in biology, chemistry, or physics it
is considered grounds by both the government and the pathetic sheep to shoot
you. Pardon me if I'm a little bit paranoid these days. It used to be
intellectuals were just beat up and made fun of by the others in schools.
Now it's fashionable to throw them in jail or kill them. "Unauthorized 
and illegitimate research:" what a stupid concept.

The American people consider anybody who does things in secret to be
automatically guilty. Forget the principles that America was founded on! When 
the government sends the ninjas into your home because you were going 56 mph
when you passed a cop on the highway and looked over at him the wrong way
they sieze your computer. They find that you're running Linux. Oooh, you
must be evil because your computer is password protected but the Microshaft
apologist across the hall has his computer wide open. They find that you
have blocks of random data on your drive, and even if they don't get them
decrypted because they *ARE* blocks of completely random data they wave it
in front of a jury and get a guilty verdict.

It's a sad, sad state of affairs.

>ObMinorNote: I recently tried to buy a bag of ammonium nitrate for my
>yard...the local yard store says it hasn't been available to ordinary
>customers since OKC. I had to settle for ammonium sulfate instead.

It is when I read things like this that I realize how completely stupid the
entire government position is. Why do you need to buy ammonium nitrate to
make a bomb?

Assuming you just don't use something else which is more effective, why not
do this?

 NH OH + HNO --> NH NO  + H O
   3        3      3  3    2

So this naturally leads to the following question: Is having nitric acid and
ammonium hydroxide now a crime worthy of ninjas flying through your windows
with big guns in the middle of the night and shooting you because "you
looked like you were going for a weapon" when you flushed the toilet and
pulled your pants up?

Then if they don't have anything to charge you with they plant some drugs in
your toilet tank and claim that you were in "possession of drugs with
intention to distribute." Of course you were going to distribute them! You
had a truck and you frequently drove around! 

>We live in a dangerous world, full of potentially dangerous substances and
>things. Instead of dealing with the danger on a personal basis, we are
>using the government as our nanny, and also letting it record our
>purchases, open files on us for "unusual" purchases, and generally track
>our actions. Which actually won't have much effect on dedicated terrorists
>and criminals.

Exactly. Welcome to the shakedown extortion police state known as Amerika,
Land of the Freeh.


From owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Sun Feb 22 10:27 SGT 1998
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From owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Sun Feb 22 10:47 SGT 1998
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From owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Sun Feb 22 11:37 SGT 1998
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Timothy May wrote:

>(One can asssume that with more and more such things being added to the
>"watch lists" each year, that there will be less acceptance of cash, or
>anonymous digital cash, for such purchases.)

I tried to buy some chemicals down here with cash about six months ago. They
tried everything they could to get me to write a check and in the end I
stormed out of the building, leaving the merchandise on the counter. I
haven't been back yet, and there's probably a good chance that the security
camera footage was sent to the FBI. Come to think of it, that would explain
some rather wierd incidents I've observed since then.

People say that the only reason to pay in cash is if you have something to
hide. You're damned right. The last thing I want is a bunch of government 
shills keeping track of what I buy so that they can stage some raid because 
they have a record of me paying for a beaker "which could be used" to mix 
chemicals which "could be used" as explosives, or metal "which could be 
used" to make thermite which "could be used" for some nefarious purpose.

In America today if you have interests in biology, chemistry, or physics it
is considered grounds by both the government and the pathetic sheep to shoot
you. Pardon me if I'm a little bit paranoid these days. It used to be
intellectuals were just beat up and made fun of by the others in schools.
Now it's fashionable to throw them in jail or kill them. "Unauthorized 
and illegitimate research:" what a stupid concept.

The American people consider anybody who does things in secret to be
automatically guilty. Forget the principles that America was founded on! When 
the government sends the ninjas into your home because you were going 56 mph
when you passed a cop on the highway and looked over at him the wrong way
they sieze your computer. They find that you're running Linux. Oooh, you
must be evil because your computer is password protected but the Microshaft
apologist across the hall has his computer wide open. They find that you
have blocks of random data on your drive, and even if they don't get them
decrypted because they *ARE* blocks of completely random data they wave it
in front of a jury and get a guilty verdict.

It's a sad, sad state of affairs.

>ObMinorNote: I recently tried to buy a bag of ammonium nitrate for my
>yard...the local yard store says it hasn't been available to ordinary
>customers since OKC. I had to settle for ammonium sulfate instead.

It is when I read things like this that I realize how completely stupid the
entire government position is. Why do you need to buy ammonium nitrate to
make a bomb?

Assuming you just don't use something else which is more effective, why not
do this?

 NH OH + HNO --> NH NO  + H O
   3        3      3  3    2

So this naturally leads to the following question: Is having nitric acid and
ammonium hydroxide now a crime worthy of ninjas flying through your windows
with big guns in the middle of the night and shooting you because "you
looked like you were going for a weapon" when you flushed the toilet and
pulled your pants up?

Then if they don't have anything to charge you with they plant some drugs in
your toilet tank and claim that you were in "possession of drugs with
intention to distribute." Of course you were going to distribute them! You
had a truck and you frequently drove around! 

>We live in a dangerous world, full of potentially dangerous substances and
>things. Instead of dealing with the danger on a personal basis, we are
>using the government as our nanny, and also letting it record our
>purchases, open files on us for "unusual" purchases, and generally track
>our actions. Which actually won't have much effect on dedicated terrorists
>and criminals.

Exactly. Welcome to the shakedown extortion police state known as Amerika,
Land of the Freeh.


From owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Sun Feb 22 12:38 SGT 1998
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On Wed, 28 Jan 1998 10:29:32 GMT, Adam Back  wrote:
>enough anyway, as anyone can verify looking at www.replay.com where a
>good collection of 128 bit browsers can be obtained.

Perhaps someone from this list would be kind enough to explain to the
obviously ignorant just how one manages to DL from replay.com 
without encountering the following problem:



|Forbidden

|You don't have permission to access /security/browsers/128bit/CommunicatorUS-v401-Pro/windows/cp16d401.exe on this
|server.

|There was also some additional information available about the error:
|[Mon Feb 16 21:13:24 1998] access to
|/pub/WWW/www.replay.com/security/browsers/128bit/CommunicatorUS-v401-Pro/windows/cp16d401.exe
|failed for xxxxxx.xxxxx.xxxxx.xxx, reason: file permissions deny server execution 



I have tried DLing this file (and others) from more than one server, 
and at different times, but encounter the same error each time, so 
obviously I don't know what I am doing. Any help would be appreciated. 
Thanks in advance!



From owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Sun Feb 22 12:17 SGT 1998
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From: "Attila T. Hun" 
Reply-to: "Attila T. Hun" 
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 98 04:08:35 +0000
To: Rabid Wombat ,
        cypherpunks 
In-Reply-To: 
Subject: Re: Jimbelling the Sheep
Owner: Attila T. Hun 
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on or about 980221:0034, in , 
    Rabid Wombat  was purported to have 
    expostulated to perpetuate an opinion:
>On Fri, 20 Feb 1998, Eric Cordian wrote:

>> The FBI informant who orchestrated the capture of the recent "Anthrax
>> Terrorists" turns out to be a man twice convicted of felony extortion.
>>  
>> He presently markets something called "The AZ-58 Ray Tube Frequency
>> Instrument Prototype" which he advertises as being able to somehow
>> purify the body of bacteria and viruses.
>>  
>> Sounds like a rehash of Radionics.
>>  
>> You may view the contraption at its very own web site,
>>  
>>          http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/jmckenzie
>>  

    sprynet: "the site has been taken down and there will be
              no further information available."


From owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Sun Feb 22 12:28 SGT 1998
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Subject: Re: Pensacola Police have lost their mind!! (fwd)
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>Florida is a corporal punishment state where teachers may slap, hit, beat,
>paddle, manhandle, and otherwise bully students in their charge, without
>parental permission, and "educators" are protected by laws which make even
>laying a finger on them a crime comparable with beating an elected
>official to a blody pulp.
>
>So one Florida five year old gets bent out of shape and tries to tear a
>school employee to shreds?
>
>Unremarkable.

Exactly. As far as I'm concerned, if the "educators" act physically
theatening towards any student then the student is perfectly within his or
her rights to beat the living shit out of the "teacher." 

It's classic. The government has a monopoly on violence, even in schools. If
an "educator" beats up a student it's "discipline." If a student beats up
another student it's a "boys will be boys" situation which gets a slap on
the hand. But a student better not touch an "educator" or all kinds of hell
will rain down on them, including expulsion from a facility they have to pay
for anyway, and criminal charges.

There was a situation much like this in Texas a while back that I heard about.

Fuck the screwools.


From owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Sun Feb 22 23:55 SGT 1998
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test, please ignore, thanks


Brian B. Riley --> http://members.macconnect.com/~brianbr
   For PGP Keys  

  "Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" -- Samuel Johnson
  "With all due respect to an enlightened but inferior lexicographer I
    beg to submit that it is the first." 
           -- Ambrose Bierce's commentary on Johnson's definition.



From owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM Sun Feb 22 21:08 SGT 1998
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From: Alex de Joode 
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To: cypherpunks@toad.com, cypherpunks@ssz.com
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In article  you wrote:

: |Forbidden

: |You don't have permission to access /security/browsers/128bit/CommunicatorUS-v401-Pro/windows/cp16d401.exe on this
: |server.

: |There was also some additional information available about the error:
: |[Mon Feb 16 21:13:24 1998] access to
: |/pub/WWW/www.replay.com/security/browsers/128bit/CommunicatorUS-v401-Pro/windows/cp16d401.exe
: |failed for xxxxxx.xxxxx.xxxxx.xxx, reason: file permissions deny server execution 

My fault: the extension .exe is used for cgi-scripts @replay, so the
webinterface thinks that the file is a cgi script, and not a downloadable
archive so it tries to execute it which ofcourse doesn´t work.

try the following URL:

ftp://ftp.replay.com/pub/crypto/browsers/128bit/

Sorry for the mess ..
--
  Alex de Joode | adejoode@REPLAY.COM | http://www.replay.com
	Replay Associates: Your Internet Problem Provider.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: dmumford@dmumford.com
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 22:38:32 +0800
To: dstoler 
Subject: re: Request for Web Browser Information
Message-ID: <199802220544.AAA00515@speedy.dmumford.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text




Of course, you can always download a copy of NFR and watch as the traffic
passes.

Dodge

Original message:
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 05:51:41 -0800
From: dstoler 
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Request for Web Browser Information

I would like to know the information my browser makes available to web sites. I use both Netscape and 
Internet Explorer.

Obviously web sites can determine my IP address for any given session; they can also look at cookies left 
by themselves and other sites.

Can anyone point me to where I can learn exactly what other information is made available (browser 
version?, OS version?, system name?, user name?, etc.)?

Thanks in advance.

David




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ian Briggs 
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 09:56:11 +0800
To: paul@fatmans.demon.co.uk
Subject: Re: you petition who? (Re: I petition the Internet community to
In-Reply-To: <199803161100.LAA01168@server.eternity.org>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980223174554.0094906c@deepwell.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



So what do you need, E-mail, web space, shell?

We don't do shit until we get a subpoena, then those darned logs on the NT
server
well they just seemed to have corrupted themselves.

Course, this is NOT a invite to hack and fuck around with networks.  I'll
support objectionable content, not pricks.  No advocating violence against
people.

We host several of the white power sites referred to, we also host several
leftist political sites.
Right to freedom of the press goes beyond the government.  If private
business doesn't support freedom of the press, then there is no real freedom.

If any of you need accounts.  Drop a note.

Ian Briggs
President
Internet something or another.		


>> >   if Dmitri is not restored, deny access to his self-proclaimed
>> >   terminator: guy@panix.com
>
>Hardly in the spirit of free speech either, although I don`t doubt 
>Polis is a censorous cocksucker.
>
>> It wasn't the "internet community" that pulled that account, it was
>> PSInet, in response to Guy Polis' censorship attempts.
>
>Plug pulling is becoming even more rife, you may have noticed I have 
>been off the list for a few days, this was a result of content-based 
>plug pulling. It`s time more resilient methods of creating 
>censor-proof account were worked on, does anyone know of any ISPs 
>that specifically state that they refuse to censor? Clearly, such an 
>ISP would have limited commercial appeal in the current market so I 
>don`t consider it likely.
>
>
>--                  
>                            Paul Bradley 
>                      paul@fatmans.demon.co.uk
>       "Why should anyone want to live on rails?" - Stephen Fry
>
>
>
> 
>
>




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bpi@ns9.internetconnect.net
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 03:26:14 -0800 (PST)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: Being a Better Educator and Parent
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Dear educator:

Today, more than ever, we need innovative new solutions to 
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        "Kevin Kirchman's book Aspirations is an answer 
        to education questions such as 'How do we teach 
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        potential, be creative, gain self esteem, and be 
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        "His book is a must for all educators from pre-school
        through graduate school. I wish his book had been
        available during my 42 year teaching career."
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                 Retired teacher, Fort Lee, NJ

Introducing,
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Epistemology is to education what physics is to engineering--
but until the basis was discovered for _principles_ of understanding,
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        "If knowledge of the humanities is subjective, that is,  only
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: eureka@eureka.abc-web.com
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 01:42:07 -0800 (PST)
To: All Eureka! Subscribers: ;
Subject: Eureka! Sun Feb 1 '98
Message-ID: <19980201082849.16255.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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Pic  3 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?012
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Pic  5 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?014
Pic  6 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?015
Pic  7 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?016
Pic  8 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?017
Pic  9 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?018
Pic 10 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?019

============================================================
TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS NEWSLETTER,  USE THE REPLY FUNCTION
IN YOUR EMAIL PROGRAM, AND SEND THIS EMAIL RIGHT BACK TO US.
============================================================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: jaqui5535@juno.com
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 07:18:07 -0800 (PST)
To: smartinvestors3@newsletter.com
Subject: Re: E-ALERT: URGENT BUY RECOMMENDATION
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Cronus Corporation
Symbol: C R O N
Recent Price: 1/2 ($.50/share)

Wall Street analysis from Harvard Equity Research has issued a
STRONG BUY recommendation on CRON stock.  Charles Blitzer
was quoted as predicting a $1.25 to $1.50 price near-term
with a "thrust into the $3-$4 range sometime in 1998".

Harvard Equity Research's last recommendation in October, AATK,
went from $3 1/2 to $9 in ten trading days!

Harvard Equity Research is so confident of their projections that
they are offering their subscribers a money-back guarantee on their
subscription if CRON doesn't at least double within the next year.

To reiterate: an IMMEDIATE & STRONG BUY recommendation
on CRON.

For further information go to: http://quote.yahoo.com/
or send a SASE, for a free issue of Harvard Equity Research's
latest top-rated newsletter, to H.E.R., P.O. Box 96159,
Boston, MA 01742

-------------------





























From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: MAILER-DAEMON@toad.com
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 19:33:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: FDA Registered and FDA Certified
Message-ID: <199802011811.MAA23195@mail.t-1net.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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Weight Control Disc & Transdermal
Patch, both FDA Certified & Registered
with National Drug Code #'s.  Developed
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For detailed information reply to: timcoent@usa.net




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: MAILER-DAEMON@toad.com
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 08:41:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: FDA Registered and FDA Certified
Message-ID: <199802011821.MAA25009@mail.t-1net.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Exclusive New Oral Transmucosal
Weight Control Disc & Transdermal
Patch, both FDA Certified & Registered
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by 10 year old Pharmaceutical Company.

For detailed information reply to: alt@sierranv.net




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 10666148@08855.com
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 12:18:43 -0800 (PST)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: WANT TO KNOW A SECRET??
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: moisoqa@prodigy.com
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 07:05:23 -0800 (PST)
To: moisoqa@prodigy.com
Subject: "Stock News ALERT" UNFC expect $50 million increase in revenues in 98'.
Message-ID: <199802013862HAA16945@post.at>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




REMINGTON-HALL CAPITALIZES ON RESURGENT REAL ESTATE MARKET 
Company expects to acquire $50 million in assets by mid-1998

  
DALLAS -- UNFC ), a diversified real estate investment firm formerly known as Universal Fuels Company, is quietly acquiring over $50 million in previously undervalued, undercapitalized or mismanaged commercial properties and making this new major player one of the best moderate-risk real estate investments in 1998.  
 
Founded in 1975 as Universal Fuels, the company provided uranium to the world as an alternative fuel, but as uranium became less used as a nuclear fuel source than other more economical and useful materials, Universal Fuels' stock declined almost to extinction over several years.  The stock price was less than 1˘ last year.
 
Four months ago officials from Camden-Townwest, a privately held real estate investment firm, approached Universal Fuels former management about converting Universal Fuels into a publicly traded real estate conglomerate.  Camden-Townwest, founded in 1994, grew from $19,000 in cash to $3 million in assets in three years without seeking any outside capital.  Since the change in management and corporate mission last October,  UNFC  has seen its stock value increase by over 800%.   
 
Remington-Hall  is now making its move to increase assets at a tremendous rate.  By mid-year management expects to acquire in excess of $50 Million in office buildings and multi-family properties at a significant discount to their market value. "We have been referred to as 'Cat Burglars of Real Estate'," said Douglas Fonteno, president & chief executive officer, "and that's a title we plan to keep."
 
Douglas T Fonteno previously Chairman of Camden-Townwest and formerly with Merrill Lynch, is Remington-Hall's new President & Chief Executive Officer.  Larry Hood,   formerly Chief Operating Officer of Pizza Inn and Chief Financial Officer of Reliance Mortgage Company, is Remington-Hall's Chief Financial Officer, giving the new company immediate and substantial financial integrity.  Wade Hyde, previously public relations and investor relations executive for Blockbuster Video and FoxMeyer Corporation, is Vice President of Marketing & Public Relations. 
 
Currently Remington-Hall is seeking to be listed on the Pacific Stock Exchange and the Nasdaq National Market.  The company anticipates announcing over $10 million in newly acquired assets by the end of January.
 
Name:		    Remington-Hall Capital Corporation  ( formerly Universal Fuels)
Symbol:	     Nasdaq: UNFC 
Mission:	     To aggressively acquire steeply undervalued real estate properties
                       due to previous mismanagement or undercapitalization.   
Management: Senior executives with diverse experiences, including: 
                       Fortune 500 corporations, leading stock brokerage firms, 
                       real estate companies and national marketing.  
Goals:	           To increase assets to $10M by January 98 and $50M by mid-year  
Address:	     1401 Elm St., Ste. 1818, Dallas, TX  75202-2925
Internet:	     www.remington-hall.com 
E-Mail:	           InvestorRelations@remington-hall.com
Quote:            Yahoo! Remington-Hall 

              Except for the historical information contained on the website,
              the matters set forth inthese documents are forward-looking
              statements within the meaning of the "safe harbour" provisions
              of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. These
              forward-looking statements are subject to risk and uncertainties
              that may cause actual results to differ materially. These forward-looking
              statements speak only as of the date hereof and the Company 
              disclaims any intent or obligation to update these forward-looking 
              This is not a solicitation to buy or sell securities and does not purport to
              give investment recommendations.  The company featured in this                      
              advertorial pay for promotional services by issuing securities, options to
              purchase securities and/or cash.  The information contained here has
              been carefully compiled and believed to be reliable, but its accuracy is
              not guaranteed.









From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: TheSluth@kokomocowboy.com
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 21:22:25 -0800 (PST)
To: WiseFolk@UwiseFolk.com
Subject: Beat The IRS & PAY-NO-MORE
Message-ID: <99235798_35664352>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



*****************************************************************
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              --------------------------

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*****************************************************************




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: eureka@eureka.abc-web.com
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 03:32:12 -0800 (PST)
To: All Eureka! Subscribers: ;
Subject: Eureka! Mon Feb 2 '98
Message-ID: <19980202083303.6713.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Welcome to Monday's issue of Eureka!

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Pic  8 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?027
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Pic 10 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?029

============================================================
TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS NEWSLETTER,  USE THE REPLY FUNCTION
IN YOUR EMAIL PROGRAM, AND SEND THIS EMAIL RIGHT BACK TO US.
============================================================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: cash_mr@hotmail.com
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 07:26:21 -0800 (PST)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: $25.00 for every FREE membership signup
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19971209114127.00a0983b0@alpha.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


This email is intended for Adult Webmasters only!  If you are not an Adult Webmaster 
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 18:40:09 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: The Continued Attack on Cash (Was: "The Right of
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Tim May  writes:

> At 3:52 PM -0800 2/2/98, Black Unicorn wrote:
> >At 06:07 PM 2/2/98 +0000, Attila T. Hun wrote:
>...
> >(I'm not on cpunks, mail me).
>
> Sorry, if you want to read my words ya gotta subscribe.

Let's collect Timmy's words of wisdom for posterity.

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: eureka@eureka.abc-web.com
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 06:28:47 -0800 (PST)
To: All Eureka! Subscribers: ;
Subject: Eureka! Tue Feb 3 '98
Message-ID: <19980203083236.13637.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Welcome to Tuesday's issue of Eureka!

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Please note that most of these feeds require a Netscape bro-
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CHAT WITH OTHER READERS
This chat is growing fast, and already there are a number of
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Adult/Sex Chat -----------------> http://137.39.63.229/chat/
General/Fun Chat -------> http://137.39.63.229/chat/funchat/

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GAYEUREKA!
The gay  newsletter is now  available.  You can get it here!
Gay Eureka! ----------> http://eureka.abc-web.com/gayeureka/

EUREKA! TRANSLATIONS
As well as English you can now choose any of these languages
DEUTSCH ------> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/deutsch.htm
ESPAŃOL ------> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/espanol.htm
FRANÇAIS ----> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/francais.htm
ITALIANO ----> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/italiano.htm
PORTUGUESE > http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/portuguese.htm

TODAY'S FREE PIX
Pic  1 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?030
Pic  2 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?031
Pic  3 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?032
Pic  4 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?033
Pic  5 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?034
Pic  6 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?035
Pic  7 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?036
Pic  8 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?037
Pic  9 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?038
Pic 10 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?039

============================================================
TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS NEWSLETTER,  USE THE REPLY FUNCTION
IN YOUR EMAIL PROGRAM, AND SEND THIS EMAIL RIGHT BACK TO US.
============================================================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: pegasusgroup@emailconcepts.net
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 17:50:56 -0800 (PST)
To: pegasusgroup@emailconcepts.net
Subject: Free Roger Clemens Lithograph
Message-ID: <199802031406.JAA25545@emailconcepts.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Free Roger Clemen's Lithograph ($200 Value)
with purchase of  the Roger Clemens Collectors Ring

http://www.pegasusgroup.com/rogerclemens/roger.htm

Limited Edition Collectors Lithograph
Limited Edition Collectors Ring

In honor of  Roger's fourth Cy Young Award, Diamond Distributors
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Each lithograph has been signed by Roger and is numbered.

The  ring is designed and made by the Herff Jones Company,
designers and makers of the Heisman Trophy, Heisman Rings, 
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Each ring comes complete with Certificate of Authenticity
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http://www.pegasusgroup.com/rogerclemens/roger.htm
Within 2 weeks
Watch for:
               **** The new Roger Clemens Monthly Sweepstakes!!
         and 
              *****  The Collectors  Set of 12  Special Signature Series of
                           Roger Clemens Baseballs


///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
This Message was Composed using Extractor Pro Bulk E- Mail Software. If 
you wish to be removed from this advertiser's future mailings, please reply 
with the subject "Remove" and this software will automatically block you 
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////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem 
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 15:35:50 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown (Name server: eureka.abc-web.co: host not found)
Message-ID: <199802032335.SAA06316@chemistry.mps.ohio-state.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

The original message was received at Tue, 3 Feb 1998 18:35:44 -0500 (EST)
from ts14-8.homenet.ohio-state.edu [140.254.113.47]

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----


   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
550 ... Host unknown (Name server: eureka.abc-web.co: host not found)


Reporting-MTA: dns; chemistry.mps.ohio-state.edu
Received-From-MTA: DNS; ts14-8.homenet.ohio-state.edu
Arrival-Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 18:35:44 -0500 (EST)

Final-Recipient: RFC822; eureka-unsubscribe@eureka.abc-web.co
Action: failed
Status: 5.1.2
Remote-MTA: DNS; eureka.abc-web.co
Last-Attempt-Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 18:35:47 -0500 (EST)


To: eureka-unsubscribe@eureka.abc-web.co
Subject: Re: Eureka! Tue Feb 3 '98
From: Cypherpunks@toad.com
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 01:54:08 -0800

Welcome to Tuesday's issue of Eureka!

PINKBITS
Voted the  #1 Teen (18+) site  on the web,  this is  one pay
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ADULT CHARTS
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BRAND NEW - HOORAY! THE ADULT SEARCH ENGINE
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FREE STREAMING VIDEO
Please note that most of these feeds require a Netscape bro-
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College teens -----> http://207.240.169.122/teens/start.html

CHAT WITH OTHER READERS
This chat is growing fast, and already there are a number of
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---------------------------> http://amateurindex.com/eureka/

EROTIC STORY SITE OF THE DAY
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ADULT STAR PIC OF THE DAY
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GAYEUREKA!
The gay  newsletter is now  available.  You can get it here!
Gay Eureka! ----------> http://eureka.abc-web.com/gayeureka/

EUREKA! TRANSLATIONS
As well as English you can now choose any of these languages
DEUTSCH ------> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/deutsch.htm
ESPAŃOL ------> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/espanol.htm
FRANÇAIS ----> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/francais.htm
ITALIANO ----> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/italiano.htm
PORTUGUESE > http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/portuguese.htm

TODAY'S FREE PIX
Pic  1 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?030
Pic  2 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?031
Pic  3 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?032
Pic  4 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?033
Pic  5 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?034
Pic  6 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?035
Pic  7 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?036
Pic  8 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?037
Pic  9 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?038
Pic 10 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?039

============================================================
TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS NEWSLETTER,  USE THE REPLY FUNCTION
IN YOUR EMAIL PROGRAM, AND SEND THIS EMAIL RIGHT BACK TO US.
============================================================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 71440094@ix.netcom.com
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 19:21:57 -0800 (PST)
To: JuDa1635@ix.netcom.com
Subject: Better Choice for Airport Transportation
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


GERMANY - Airport Shuttle Services - the Better Choice for Airport Transportation
to and from 18 German Airports

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: tulii@ak.planet.gen.nz
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 08:03:01 -0800 (PST)
To: tulii@ak.planet.gen.nz
Subject: BULK  EMAIL  FOR  PROFIT
Message-ID: <19980203997SAA14722@post.com.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



******************************************************
        
        MAIL THOUSANDS OF EMAIL MESSAGES
                  PER HOUR - NO KIDDING !! 
               

          SEND YOUR EMAIL MESSAGES OUT, AT
         1,000's MESSAGES / HOUR (28.8K modem)

           YES, 1,000's  Of Messages An Hour

******************************************************

	 30  MILLION  EMAIL  ADDRESSES

                        ******** $100.00 *******

******************************************************

  YOU'LL RECEIVE 2 HIGH-SPEED EMAIL SOFTWARE PROGRAMS

Introducing...."FLOODGATE BULK EMAIL LOADER" 
        AND...."GOLDRUSH STEALTH MASS MAILER"

This is the same software that all bulk emailing services use!

----------------------------------------------------

Floodgate Bulk Email Loader Version 6.0 AND
Goldrush Stealth Mass Mailer Version 3.215
for Windows 95 and Windows 3.1 now Supports 17 
(really more with the free form filter) File Formats

----------------------------------------------------


SEND OUT 20,000+ MARKETING LETTERS EVERY SINGLE DAY!

Or...every few days. In fact, when I send out just a few thousand marketing letters each day, it doesn't take long before I'm completely swamped with email inquiries and phone calls. This is very easy to do. And each one of these bulk mailings costs me nothing. I can teach you how to do this and provide you with the tools you'll need.

If you've got a good marketing letter, I'll show you how to open the floodgates. You'll be deluged with inquiries, leads, and real sales, using nothing but email alone.

Writing a good marketing letter is not easy. I often have to rewrite my marketing letters a half dozen times before I get the results I'm looking for. But once you have a good letter, as you probably know, you can use the same letter over and over again, predictably and consistently, closing sales, week after week, month after month.

It takes me about one hour to send my marketing letter to THOUSANDS of fresh email addresses. I can do this, thanks to a Windows program I use. It's called Floodgate and Goldrush Stealth Mass Mailer. It's a bulk email loader and an email software program. If you're interested in electronic marketing, you should know about these programs.

PROGRAM #1: FLOODGATE FOR WINDOWS

The Floodgate Bulk Email Loader imports simple text files that anyone can download from CompuServe, Prodigy, Delphi Genie, or the Internet. These text files contain classified ads, forum messages, or data from the member directory. Each of these files is filled with email addresses.

Floodgate is designed to read these files and strip out the email addresses. It then sorts the addresses, removes any duplicates, and formats them into an output file, with 10, 20 or 30 addresses per line. This is all done in one simple step. Just point and click.

You'll need either a Windows based Internet account or an America On-line account to send out your marketing letters. Neither AOL nor the Internet charges to send email. Send your letter to 1,000 people or 10,000 people -- the cost is always the same. NOTHING!

NEW! PREPARE A MAILING OF 50,000+ 
IN LESS THAN A 1/2 HOUR

If you open an Internet account, you can send each letter to 20,000+ people. The new Floodgate now directly writes distribution lists. Some people are always collecting new addresses, but if you publish a newsletter or adsheet, you'll be using the same addresses over and over again. That's real power! When using addresses you've previously collected, you can press a few buttons and prepare a mailing of 50,000+ in less than a half hour.

(To get a list of all the Internet access providers in your local calling area goto: http://thelist.com and click on your area code.)

The Floodgate Users Guide will teach you, step by step, how to download the right files, how to strip the addresses, and finally, how to cut and paste the formatted addresses into your marketing letter. Or, if you have an Internet account, how to create distribution lists. One you've done this a few times you won't even have to think. It's that simple!

FOR THE BRAVE & DARING: PUSHING TECHNOLOGY TO ITS LIMITS

As you may know, the practice of sending unsolicited email is usually frowned upon, and most service providers have rules against it. But, like jay-walking, there is little enforcement. It's not illegal. If someone tells you that it is, ask them to provide the citation (and don't let them give you some nonsense about faxes - that's not email). They can't do it because it's not there. Sometimes, when a lot of people complain, I get a warning letter. And that's about it.

About 1 in 200 will write back and tell me, "take me off the list", which I can do, thanks to Floodgates Remove List feature. Many people reply back thanking me for sending them my informative letter. That's always nice. Most people though, just reply and say, "send me more info." In this way, it usually takes me two or three letters to close a sale.

The Floodgate Users Guide will provide you with proven formats for writing a successful marketing letter. You'll test and rewrite, test and rewrite. Then, once you've got it, just push a few buttons, and open the floodgates!!!

THE FLOODGATE BULK EMAIL LOADER CURRENTLY SUPPORTS 17+ FILE FORMATS

1. CompuServe Classifieds: Send your marketing letter to everyone who is running a classified ad. I'll teach you how to download all the classifieds from any single ad category. This is one of the most responsive list of buyers. They check their email every day and they're already in business.

2. America On-line Classifieds: Download 1,000 addresses in 15 minutes. These are excellent lists for business to business sales.

3. CompuServe Forums: You can join a forum and download hundreds of forum messages in a matter of minutes.

4. America On-line Forums: Choose from dozens of forums. All good targeted lists.

5. Prodigy Forums: Prodigy allows you to easily export any group of forum messages. More targeted lists.

6. Internet Newsgroups: These are all targeted lists. You'll be able to send your marketing letter to everyone who posts a message in any newsgroup. Easily collect 1,000's of addresses per hour.

7. America On-line Member Directory: Most member directories only allow you to search by city and state. With AOL, you can search by business type, hobbies, computer type, etc. This is the gem of all
member directories. Build huge targeted lists.

8. CompuServe Member Directory: This is a major resource. If you're willing to target your mailing to a single city, you can collect about 1,000 email addresses an hour.

9. Delphi Member Directory: The Delphi member directory allows you to search for people based on key words. These are good targeted mailing lists. A single search can easily generate 5,000 addresses.

10. Genie Member Directory: Similar to the CompuServe member directory, only you can download names much quicker. You can easily pull hundreds of thousands of addresses out of each of these member directories.

11. CompuServe File Cabinet: If you run classified ads, and save the responses in the CIM file cabinet, you'll be able to easily reuse these addresses. You can send your marketing letter to everyone in any single folder. Build master lists and clean UP your hard drive.

12. Free Form: If you have a text file with email addresses that floodgate does not support, chances are the Free Form filter will be just what you need. Just enter a key word to search for.

13. CompuServe Form Profiles (Forum Membership Directories): Easy to build targeted lists here. Each search can easily bring you 500+
addresses.

14. Genie Profiles: If you're building targeted lists, you'll get a lot of addresses very quickly from Genie.

15. Plain Addresses: Read Floodgate Master Files back into Floodgate to merge files and do selective mailings. Also useful for the management of email address lists that you might purchase.

Floodgate also has filters to allow you to include or exclude any groups of addresses in your final distribution lists. For example, you could include only email addresses that ended in .com or exclude all with .gov. You could exclude all noc, root, and other addresses that almost guarantee a negative response. These filters are fully configurable and can be used together.

BUILD REUSABLE MASTER FILES

Floodgate maintains Master Files for each of your marketing letters. If you download from the same place on a regular basis, you only want to send your letter to the new people. Floodgate will compare the new addresses with those in the Master File, and prepare a mailing list of only new people. The new addresses are, of course, then added to the Master File. With each new mailing your Master File grows and grows.

You may create as many Master Lists as you need. When you start a new marketing campaign, you'll want to send your new letter to everyone on your Master List. If you write a newsletter, each time you send your newsletter, you'll send it to everyone on a Master List.

THE REMOVE LIST

Very often, people will reply and tell you to take them off your mailing list. Place these addresses in the REMOVE.MST file and they will never receive another letter from you again. In this way, you will be operating your business with the most professionalism
possible.

DON'T BE FOOLED

We have some new competitors that have tried to copy Floodgate. The following list describes why Floodgate is BETTER.......

**Floodgate is a mature, bug free product. Not an initial release.
**Floodgate comes with over 100 pages of step by step       documentation.
**Floodgate is the only one offering a money back guarantee.
**Floodgate has more testimonials. 
**Filter for filter, Floodgate offers more capabilities, way more. 
**Floodgate does everything all the others *combined* claim. 
**Floodgate is by far the easiest to use.
**There is NO *cutting and pasting* with Floodgate. 
**We have by far, the BEST technical support.

SOME QUICK MATH

Floodgate can pay for itself in a few days. It can also cut your advertising costs down to almost nothing. Think of what the competition will do when they get their Floodgate program. Don't be left in the dust - there are 75 million people out there, just a few keystrokes away. Let's do the math:

- Email 50,000 sales letters (takes about 1-2 hours)
- Let's say your product will bring you $5 profit per   sale.
- Let's also say you only get a 1% response(occasionally higher).

* That's 500 orders x $5 = $2,500 profit !! Now imagine what 500,000 letters would do for your business !!

WHAT CAN I MARKET ON-LINE?

You can market anything on-line using direct email, that can be marketed using conventional postal direct mail marketing. The possibilities are practically endless. If it sells off-line, you can sell it on-line.

EASY TO INSTALL AND EASY TO LEARN

The Floodgate Email Loader requires Windows. The SUPPLIED MANUAL tells you where to go, what to do, and how to do it. All you need are basic computer skills that can be learned with a little practice or help from our computer savvy technicians.

PROGRAM #2: GOLDRUSH STEALTH MASS MAILER

Do not get this program confused with other slow speed programs that call themselves "STEALTH". This program is the only one in the world that can send email out at HIGH SPEEDS with one single connection to the internet. 

This is NEW, Cutting Edge Email Technology. First Of It's Kind.. The Most Powerful BULK EMAIL SENDER In The World.. NOTHING CAN EVEN COME CLOSE! 

Thanks to our top programmer's, this technology is NOW available and we are the only place you can get it from! 

     *ONLY "ONE" DIAL-UP OR ISDN CONNECTION NEEDED. 
     *NO MORE TERMINATED CONNECTIONS. 
     *NO MORE WAITING TO SEND LARGE AMOUNTS OF EMAIL. 
     *IMMEDIATE RESPONSE TO YOUR MASS MAILINGS. 
     *YOU WILL HAVE ALL THE CONTROL AND CONFIDENCE OF 
       SENDING EMAIL THE WAY IT SHOULD BE SENT... IN HUGE AMOUNTS! 
     *SEND YOUR WHOLE LIST IN ONE DAY, WHETHER IT BE 500,000 
       OR 5 MILLION - AND JUST SIT BACK AND WAIT FOR YOUR 
       ORDERS TO POUR IN. 
     *NO MORE DOWNLOADING UNDELIVERABLE NAMES.

Bulk Emailer's Dream Come True!!! - >>>GOLDRUSH STEALTH MASS MAILER<<< 

Connect to multiple mail servers (20 or more), make multiple connections to a single server or any combination of the two ( All Simultaneously ) with one single dial-up connection. 

SEND MULTIPLE SIMULTANEOUS MAILINGS... 

View complete details about your mailings. Shows each server your connected to, the status of that connection, how many messages are going out through that connection, etc...

We show you ALL the tricks all the mass e-mailers don't want you to know... 

Here are just a few features the GOLDRUSH STEALTH MASS MAILER offers to you... 

     *Forge the Header - Message ID - ISP's will Spin their wheels. 
     *Add's a Bogus Authenticated Sender to the Header. 
     *Add's a complete bogus Received From / Received By line with 
      real time / date stamp and recipient to the Header. 
     *Does NOT require a valid POP Account be entered in order to 
      send your mailings. 
     *Easy to use and operate 
     *Plus much more! 

All this, at speeds of up to 1,000's messages/hour
(28.8k modem). 

SPECIAL INTRODUCTORY PRICE... 

NOW YOU CAN HAVE BOTH THE FLOODGATE AND 
GOLDRUSH STEALTH MASS MAILER FOR JUST $499.00! 

UPDATE ... SAVE $149.05 AND ORDER NOW, BE ONE OF THE FIRST 100 ORDERS! 

Step up to the plate and play with the big boys TODAY and receive the COMPLETE 2 SOFTWARE PACKAGE for the unbelievably low price of ONLY $349.95! 

(Other bulk email software has sold for as much as $2,500 and can't even come close to the cutting edge technology of EASE, ACCURACY AND SPEED ... SPEED ... SPEED!) 

Try the Goldrush Stealth Mass Mailer & Floodgate Bulk Email Loader for 10 days FREE. 
And receive UNLIMITED technical support for 30 days.

**************************************************************

	            30 MILLION EMAIL ADDRESSES
	MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF EMAIL ADDRESSES

CD with MILLIONS of email addresses separated by domain name.
All addresses are simple text format one per line. Addresses
from the following domains: Pipleline, MSN, MCI, Juno, Delphi,
Genie, AOL, Compuserve, Internet, .com & .net, MILLIONS OF THEM!
Not available on diskette or download.

===> WANT THE MILLIONS OF ADDRESSES FOR $100.00? <===

Just buy our Floodgate / Goldrush software package (with ALL
the bonuses INCLUDED), and the MILLIONS of addresses are yours
for just $100.00 additional.

These addresses will be delivered to you in simple text files
that any bulk emailing program can use, on CD Rom. With this CD,
YOU CAN BEGIN MAKING MONEY IMMEDIATELY!!!

***************************************************************

***SPECIAL BONUS #1:*** STOP Losing ISP Dial Up Accounts! 

If you order The FLOODGATE / GOLDRUSH software within the next 5 days - When you receive your program, you will also receive: 

*Complete instructions on "how to keep your dial up account from  showing up in the header", plus everything you will need to get started doing this. 

IMPORTANT NOTICE! We will initially only be offering 100 copies of the program for sale, First come / First Served basis only. We are doing this because of the extreme power that these programs offer.


***SPECIAL BONUS #2*** 

When you receive your two programs, you will also receive:
OVER 250 REPRINT AND RESELL RIGHTS REPORTS YOU CAN START TO MARKET
AND MAKE MONEY IMMEDIATELY!!! 

     These HOT sellers include: 
     1) How to Get a Top Rating in the Search Engines 
     2) 70 Money Making Reports 
     3) 75 MONEY MAKING PLANS & TRADE SECRETS and MUCH MUCH MORE!!!  
         ($200 RETAIL VALUE - FREE!!!) 


***SPECIAL BONUS #3***

With your two software programs, you will also receive our NEW "Address Grabber" utility program that enables you to grab 100's of THOUSANDS of email addresses from
newsgroups in minutes ($100 RETAIL VALUE - FREE).


***SPECIAL BONUS #4***

RECEIVE CHECKS BY EMAIL, PHONE OR FAX MACHINE. With this software
program, you can receive payment for your product or service INSTANTLY!!
There is no more waiting for your customers check to arrive. This
software will no doubt, add to your sales, for customers who
don't have credit cards, as well as the impulse buyers.

With this software, you can print up your payments as soon as your
customer gives you his/her checking information. You will then
add the information given, to the proper blank check spaces, then
just print and go to the bank!!

         ***************************************************

To get your FREE demo and "test drive" our state-of-the-art software, 
fax us your email address and request to:
			
		1-561-966-6839

         ****************************************************

              HURRY ... RESERVE YOURS TODAY! 

So, if you are interested in taking advantage of the most powerful bulk 
email software in the world and start making money hand over fist.....

Print out the EZ ORDER form below and FAX or MAIL it to our office.

If you have any questions don't hesitate to call us at: 1-561-965-6139

SYSTEM REQUIREMENTS

386 or larger
Windows 95 OR Windows 3.1 with 8 meg ram
Extra 5 MB hard drive space

Floodgate & Goldrush can be run on a fast Mac with 24 MB RAM and SoftWindows.

NOTES FROM SATISFIED USERS

"It is everything you said it was. Within one week of my first mailing, I received a record number of orders. All you need to print money is a decent sales letter. Thanks." Randy albertson, Wolverine Capital.

"After using Floodgate and your utility program all day today, let me say these are as two of the finest programs I have ever bought in my 52 years! Your support has been superb. Thank You!" Vernon Hale, Prime Data Systems

"My first day and I just used Floodgate and Pegasus to send 1,469 sales letters. So far I've got about 25 positive responses. It works GREAT!!! Thanks." Donald Prior

"Floodgate is awesome!. I recently started a new business on-line. I stripped the addresses of the AOL & CIS classifieds. I sent out 3,497 email letters and got over 400 people to join my company in 5 days! Needless to say, it pays for itself." David Sheeham, OMPD

"I was able to use Floodgate to extract the names from the Internet news groups. It works perfectly. Needless to say, I am very excited about the use of this new technology." Mark Eberra, Inside Connections

"This is a great piece of software and an invaluable marketing tool." Joe Kuhn, The Millennium Group

"I just thought you'd like to know that this program is fantastic. After loading it on my system, I wanted to test it out. In my first hour of using this, I collected 6,092 email addresses!" Richard Kahn, LD Communications

"I just love the Floodgate program. It saves me hours and hours of time. This is the beginning of a wonderful FUN time marketing on-line. Thank you so much for writing this program." Beth O'Neill, Eudora, KS

"Your software is brilliant, and from the technical support I've received, I can see you have a genuine love and respect of people...Floodgate is a divine package. Wish I had found it sooner." Tom Sanders, Peoria, IL

"I really like the way the Floodgate software package works. It is very easy to use, and really does the trick. It has already saved me an incredible amount of time and energy." John Berning, Jr., Fairfield, NJ

"It's going great with FLOODGATE! I like using Delphi. I just collected 50,000+ addresses within 20 minutes on-line." Richard Kahn, R&B Associates

-------------------------------------------------
E-Z ORDER FORM:

Please print out this order form and fill in the blanks......
Please send order form and check or money order, payable to:

Ted Keller
P.O. Box 741342
Boynton Beach, FL 33474-1342
(561)-965-6139


______Yes! I would like to try your cutting-edge software so that I can advertise my business to thousands of people on-line whenever I like! I understand that I have 10 days to trial the software. If I am not fully delighted, I will cheerfully be refunded the purchase price, no questions asked! Please rush me the FLOODGATE and GOLDRUSH package now!

______I am ordering within 72 hours! That qualifies me to receive the FLOODGATE and GOLDRUSH package at a substantial discount! I am ordering BOTH software packages for only $349.95. (Save $150 off the retail price....Software has sold for as much as $2,499.95)

______I am ordering within 72 hours! That qualifies me to receive UNLIMITED technical support for 30 days.

______I want to receive the package OVERNIGHT. I'm including $18.00 for shipping charges.

______I want to receive the package 2nd DAY. I'm including $10.00 (includes insurance & return receipt) for shipping charges.

______I'm ordering Floodgate / Goldrush software and want to order the MILLIONS of email addresses as well. My additional cost is $100.00 enclosed.

______I'm NOT ordering your Floodgate / Goldrush software, but I
want to order your MILLIONS of email addresses on CD. Enclosed is $249.00.

(CHECKS: ALLOW 1 WEEK FOR BANK CLEARANCE)


YOUR NAME_________________________________________________

COMPANY NAME_________________________________________________

YOUR POSITION_____________________________________________

STREET ADDRESS______________________________________________

CITY, STATE, ZIP____________________________________________

PHONE NUMBERS_______________________________________________

FAX NUMBERS_________________________________________________

EMAIL ADDRESSES_____________________________________________

************************************************************

We accept Checks, Money Orders, MasterCard, Visa,
American Express. You can either mail your order to 
us OR fax your order to:

			(561)-966-6839
************************************************************

Today's date:_____________
 
Visa____MasterCard____American Express____Discover_______
 
Card #:____________________________________________________
 
Expiration date:___________________________________________
 
Name on card:______________________________________________
 
Billing address:___________________________________________
 
Amount to be charged: $________________


Signature:___________________________________________


I agree to pay Ted Keller an additional $29 fee if my check is returned for insufficient or uncollectable funds.

SIGNATURE: X________________________________DATE:_______________

Please send all order forms and check or money order to payable to:

Ted Keller
P.O. Box 741342
Boynton Beach , FL 33474-1342
(561)-965-6139


***************************************************

OR:

PLEASE PASTE YOUR CHECK HERE

(If you fax a check, there is no need for you to send the original check by mail. We will draft up a new check, with the exact information from your original check that you faxed to us)

Please fax the above order form and check to: 1-561-966-6839
C




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: eureka@eureka.abc-web.com
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 04:59:38 -0800 (PST)
To: All Eureka! Subscribers: ;
Subject: Eureka! Wed Feb 4 '98
Message-ID: <19980204083315.11433.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Welcome to Wednesday's issue of Eureka!

PUSSY PARADISE
Yet again Eureka! has managed  to negotiate a special week's
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Playgal - No.1 in Internet Hardcore!
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THE REAL NETWORK
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ANAL BABES
Make a stop on the information  super highway if you want to
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NC17
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READ THIS!! WIN ,000 and a Fantasy Date - Click Here Now!
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FREE STREAMING VIDEO
Please note that most of these feeds require a Netscape bro-
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a free copy click here --> http://www.netscape.com/download/
Teenage lesbian -> http://207.240.169.120/lesbian/start.html

CHAT WITH OTHER READERS
Hey,  if you haven't checked out the Eureka! Chat sites yet,
you're  missing out  on some  great stuff.  Every day you'll
find hundreds of other readers just like you looking to chat
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General/Fun Chat -------> http://137.39.63.229/chat/funchat/

HOT LIVE PHONE SEX TO MAKE YOU CUM!
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NEW! CENTERFOLD PIC OF THE DAY
Exclusive!  We proudly present  unpublished Pictures of your
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Welles, Dec 89-Petra Verkaik, Sept 93-Carrie Westcott, Kerri
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AMATEUR SITE OF THE DAY
Shannon: An up and coming  magazine  model, this young thing
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EROTIC STORY SITE OF THE DAY
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............................... http://www.adultstories.com/

DAILY CARTOON ----------> http://www.erosinorbit.com/eureka/

ADULT STAR PIC OF THE DAY
Woah,  our Adult Star pics are getting hotter and hotter, so
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OTHER EUREKAS!
GAY EUREKA! ----------> http://eureka.abc-web.com/gayeureka/
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ESPAŃOL ------> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/espanol.htm
FRANÇAIS ----> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/francais.htm
ITALIANO ----> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/italiano.htm
PORTUGUESE > http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/portuguese.htm

TODAY'S FREE PIX
Pic  1 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?040
Pic  2 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?041
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Pic  5 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?044
Pic  6 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?045
Pic  7 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?046
Pic  8 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?047
Pic  9 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?048
Pic 10 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?049

============================================================
TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS NEWSLETTER,  USE THE REPLY FUNCTION
IN YOUR EMAIL PROGRAM, AND SEND THIS EMAIL RIGHT BACK TO US.
============================================================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mia Westerholm 
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 01:43:42 -0800 (PST)
To: Crypto-Press-Global@DataFellows.com
Subject: Data Fellows wins another acclaimed award
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980204104606.00bf56bc@smtp.DataFellows.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Data Fellows Ltd.	 Media Release

For immediate release
4 February 1998

DATA FELLOWS WINS ANOTHER ACCLAIMED AWARD

International Success Recognized by Head of State

The developer of F-Secure data security products, Data Fellows Ltd., has
received the President of Finland's Export Award. This award is granted
annually to the most outstanding export companies in the country. This is
the first time a developer of commercial software packages has been granted
the award.

Data Fellows is one of the world's leading developers of data security
products. It has offices in San Jose, California, and Espoo, Finland, as
well as distributors in over 50 countries all around the world. Its
products have been translated to over 30 languages. The company's annual
growth in net sales has been over 100% since it was founded in 1988.  

"The award is a recognition of our status as a leading international data
security development company," says the Chief Executive Officer of Data
Fellows Ltd., Mr. Risto Siilasmaa. "I believe our success is based on two
things: excellent products and high quality services."

The most successful product group of the company is its F-Secure Anti-Virus
products. Data Fellows is the developer of the revolutionary CounterSign
Technology, which enables the use of several scanning engines
simultaneously.  Due to this groundbreaking technology, the theoretical
chances of a virus slipping through to a computer or a network are smaller
than ever. F-Secure Anti-Virus offers unrivalled protection by combining
the best available single scanning engine F-PROT with the AVP anti-virus
engine, which also ranks among the best in the world.

Another fast growing business area for Data Fellows is its F-Secure
cryptography software products. The F-Secure product family uses the best
available military strength encryption and authentification algorithms to
protect confidential data.  F-Secure products are based on the SSH
protocol, which provides a generic transport-layer encryption mechanism for
network connections. The SSH protocol provides both host authentication and
user authentication, together with privacy and integrity protection.

The products of Data Fellows have already won numerous international tests
and competitions, including the 1996 European Information Technology Prize;
Data Communications Magazine's Hot Product of the Year 1997; SVM Magazine,
May 1997, Best Anti-Virus; and SECURE Computing's Editor's Choice.

Data Fellows belongs to an elite group of companies that have a triple-A
rating from Dun&Bradstreet.  Triple-A is the highest possible credit rating.

For further information, please contact:

Data Fellows Ltd.
Mr. Risto Siilasmaa, Chief Executive Officer
Tel. +358-9-859 900
e-mail: Risto.Siilasmaa@DataFellows.com 

or  visit the Data Fellows web site at http://www.DataFellows.com 
¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤
Mia.Westerholm@DataFellows.com 
http://www.DataFellows.com

Data Fellows Ltd.
PL 24
FIN-02231 ESPOO, FINLAND
Tel. +358 9 859 900
Fax. +358 9 8599 0599




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: jacket9@primenet.com (Tony O.  AKA College Guy)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 17:35:58 -0800 (PST)
To: imeldam56@hotmail.com
Subject: PLEASE READ! YOULL BE GLAD YOU DID, MONEY MONEY
Message-ID: <199802050132.SAA13178@smtp03.primenet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>>>>
>>>>TO: MASSAOL@aol.com
>>>>FROM: GatesBeta@microsoft.com
>>>>ATTACH: Tracklog@microsoft.com/Track883432/~TraceActive/On.html
>>>>
>>>>Hello Everyone,
>>>>And thank you for signing up for my Beta Email Tracking Application or
(BETA)
>>>>for short. My name is Bill Gates.  Here at Microsoft we have just
compiled an
>>>>e-mail tracing program that tracks everyone to whom this message is
forwarded
>>>>to. It does this through an unique IP (Internet Protocol) address log book
>>>>database.
>>>>We are experimenting with this and need your help.  Forward this
>>>>to everyone you know and if it reaches 1000 people everyone
>>>>on the list you will receive $1000 and a copy of Windows98 at my expense.
>>>>Enjoy.
>>>>
>>>>Note: Duplicate entries will not be counted. You will be notified by email
>>>>with further instructions once this email has reached 1000 people. Windows98
>>>>will not be shipped unitl it has been released to the general public.
>>>>
>>>>Your friend,
>>>>Bill Gates & The Microsoft Development Team.
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>Madeline
>
>
>





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ls6Q1MOb7@yahoo.com
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 19:21:32 -0800 (PST)
To: users@juno.com
Subject: Subliminally Seduce  Women  Instantly!
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




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**********************************************************************
This message was sent by Overseas Internet Promotions, Inc. of Miami.  If you have a product or service you want to market on the Internet, call us today @ 305-668-7502
**********************************************************************






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 04:21:19 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Changing to Moderated Cypherpunks -- How?
In-Reply-To: <199802050343.DAA46984@out5.ibm.net>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Tue, 03 Feb 98 21:27:46 -0800  "James F. Marshall"  wrote:

>Too much noise in the unedited list.
>
>How does one change to the moderated list?

Easy










From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: dean@intergal.com
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 10:34:42 -0800 (PST)
To: webmasters@modelsincorporated.com
Subject: Major Launch
Message-ID: <199802051301.IAA03296@modelsincorporated.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


THIS EMAIL IS INTENDED FOR ADULT WEBMASTERS WHO HAVE SIGNED UP
FOR OUR MAILING LIST

Hi from Dean at Playgal,

I have sent this email to advise you of a major change and opportunity. As
you may be aware both Intertain ( the nets first paysite ) and Playgal have
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We have now combined our click through programs and launched the new
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If you have received this email in error please put remove in the subject
field and reply.

Thanks for your time and for supporting our group of sites.

regards




Dean









From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: eureka@eureka.abc-web.com
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 04:31:32 -0800 (PST)
To: All Eureka! Subscribers: ;
Subject: Eureka! Thu Feb 5 '98
Message-ID: <19980205083129.13871.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Welcome to Thursday's issue of Eureka!

FRESHTEENS!
Is there no end to it? Yet again we have succeeded in obtai-
ning a FREE one week trial,  for all Eureka!  subscribers at
another of the net's finest websites. Freshteens offers over
200 video feeds, hot live,  sex shows,  hard XXX movies, hot
XXX stories,  exclusive Texas Teens, and a comprehensive gay
area too. You need a credit card to verify you are an adult,
but will not be charged for your FREE membership. Excellent!
Freshteens ........... http://www.freshteens.com/cproot/1217

Oriental Beauty
http://www.orientalbeauty.com/entry.phtml
100% Free site with softcore and (some) hardcore pictures of
the most beautiful Asian women I have ever seen! All
pictures can be found in easy to navigate picture galleries
with thumbnail previews, so you only download the pictures
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day. Finally, there is also an extensive links section with
links to other Asian sites worthy of a visit. More than
enough reasons to visit us!

SINK THE PINK
Go there  now if you want  to see a lot  of great  free pix.
They have so much brown bush  in here we may have to call in
a weed wacker!  This is a cool site, easy to navigate thumb-
nails of high quality images and tons of great pix.  Featur-
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Sink The Pink ................... http://www.sinkthepink.com

CYBERJOY
Yes, this is yet another great site for some free pix!  Text
links on a light colored background lead you to double dicks
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Cyberjoy ......... http://www.cyberjoy.inter.net/accept1.htm

ASSES & PUSSIES
We got  butts and bush.  Not a bad mix.  This webmaster  has
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Asses & Pussies ................... http://www.asspussy.com/

HOT CAMILLE
There is  a membership in here  but to entice us there are a
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There are even two free videos, small but some serious pink!
Hot Camille ..................... http://www.hotcamille.com/

#READ THIS!! WIN $25,000 and a Fantasy Date - Click Here Now!
#$25,000! ---> http://208.195.150.31/us/us_main.cgi/us_5267/A
#
HOORAY! THE ADULT SEARCH ENGINE
Now you can search for the sex sites you are looking for and
fast!  This new search engine is setting the standard others
will follow.  It offers pop-up search and detailed listings!
Hooray! -----------------> http://eureka.abc-web.com/hooray/

FREE STREAMING VIDEO
Please note that most of these feeds require a Netscape bro-
wser in order to successfully view them. Unfortunately Micr-
osoft's browser does not have all the features of Netscape's
yet.  However, many of the feeds use the RealPlayer and will
work in most browsers.  If you do not have Netscape and want
a free copy click here --> http://www.netscape.com/download/
Max Hardcore --------> http://207.240.169.121/max/start.html

CHAT WITH OTHER READERS
Hey,  if you haven't checked out the Eureka! Chat sites yet,
you're  missing out  on some  great stuff.  Every day you'll
find hundreds of other readers just like you looking to chat
have fun and maybe a little 'cyber'. We know you'll love it!
Adult/Sex Chat -----------------> http://137.39.63.229/chat/
General/Fun Chat -------> http://137.39.63.229/chat/funchat/

HOT LIVE PHONE SEX TO MAKE YOU CUM!
LD Call only! - Live Hot Girls!!!!----------->1-664-410-3912
LIVE: 1-on-1, 2-on-1, Group, Dateline-------->1-800-644-8779
FREE: Live 1-on-1 (international call only)--->011-678-77416

NEW! CENTERFOLD PIC OF THE DAY
Exclusive!  We proudly present  unpublished Pictures of your
favorite Centerfolds.  Featured This Week: Dec 80-PMOY Terri
Welles, Dec 89-Petra Verkaik, Sept 93-Carrie Westcott, Kerri
Kendall,  Rebecca Ferratti,  Lydia Schone and many more too!
---------------------------> http://www.gatefold.com/eureka/

AMATEUR SITE OF THE DAY
Jan: She is what excites all  of us about amateurs. This gal
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---------------------------> http://amateurindex.com/eureka/

EROTIC STORY SITE OF THE DAY
VoyeurStories.com: Want  some  sizzling  free  voyeur erotic
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.............................. http://www.voyeurstories.com/

DAILY CARTOON ----------> http://www.erosinorbit.com/eureka/

ADULT STAR PIC OF THE DAY
Woah,  our Adult Star pics are getting hotter and hotter, so
make sure you stop by and check out today's - definitely not
to be missed! --------> http://www.xxxadultstars.com/eureka/

OTHER EUREKAS!
GAY EUREKA! ----------> http://eureka.abc-web.com/gayeureka/
DEUTSCH ------> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/deutsch.htm
ESPAŃOL ------> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/espanol.htm
FRANÇAIS ----> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/francais.htm
ITALIANO ----> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/italiano.htm
PORTUGUESE > http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/portuguese.htm

TODAY'S FREE PIX
Pic  1 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?050
Pic  2 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?051
Pic  3 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?052
Pic  4 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?053
Pic  5 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?054
Pic  6 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?055
Pic  7 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?056
Pic  8 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?057
Pic  9 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?058
Pic 10 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?059

============================================================
TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS NEWSLETTER,  USE THE REPLY FUNCTION
IN YOUR EMAIL PROGRAM, AND SEND THIS EMAIL RIGHT BACK TO US.
============================================================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 42412260@via.net
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 14:28:16 -0800 (PST)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: Lose  Weight - FAST & EASY, with  "The  PATCH"   Check it out!!
Message-ID: <8241033777bur.543167.fpes>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


In an ongoing study, 100 people between the ages of 19-67 who weighed 17 - 163 pounds in excess of their normal body weight, LOST weight!  56% of those in the study, LOST at least 20 pounds.  FAST & EASY.  Just apply "The Patch" to your arm, and LOSE weight!





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Cypherlist-Watch Moderator 
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 15:08:15 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Changing to Moderated Cypherpunks -- How?
In-Reply-To: <199802050343.DAA46984@out5.ibm.net>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


FYI, here is the welcome message from cypher-list watch.  If you are
interested, subscription details follow at the end of the message.



================================================================
                         The CYPHER-LIST WATCH
PLEASE retain this message for future reference. When you need to
unsubscribe, change your address for purposes of the list or reach
the list owner for an administrative request, you will find this
message valuable.
About the list:

The Cypher-list watch is a digest only list featuring information regarding
many aspects of privacy in the electronic age, such as encyption technology,
electronic privacy, anonymous remailers and related issues.  The posts from
the list may originate from other mailing lists to cover the broad topics
featured on the list.  All material forwarded is done so with prior consent
of the origining list owner. The list is suitable for many levels of user. 
Sometimes the topics will be *very* technical; others may just be *very* 
interesting! (Many will hopefully be both!)

-----------------------------------
CYPHER WATCH IS MODERATED!
In order to maintain a high level of quality, this is a moderated list. If
you have ever subscribed to a mariginally informative list, I am sure you
will appreciate the decision to present this material in this format. The
listowner spends innumerable hours every week culling through every post
from a pletorea of mailing lists to bring you the best of each. The concept
of the list could not be delivered in any other format. One way to think of
this as a Cypherpunk list without the noise!  If you want to stay informed
but you don't want to wade through 20 messages to read one useful post, this
list is for you.

Of course, moderating a list such as this involves a level of judgment, as
the Cypherlist Watch will not be a mere repetition of its origniating lists.
As such, some topics listmembers may think are important may not be covered
or may not be covered in the depth a member desires. List members should
feel free to bring such matters to the list owners attention, however, the
decision of the listowner redarding the topics to be feature is final.


------------------------------

Administrivia:

Submissions should be directed to the moderator at:



If a post is rejected I may or may not give a reason.  As long as
you use your common sense there should be no problems.  Attacks on
idividuals or companies are not permitted, so don't do it!  Continued
requests to post previously rejected material may also result in your
being unsubscribed from the list.


To contact the list owner in an emergency (Unsubscription requests
are *not* an emergency).




How to Subscribe/Unsubscribe:


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	Alternatively, you can e-mail:

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and put 'subscribe' or 'unsubscribe' on the "Subject:" line.



Resources:

Applied Cryptography (2nd edition) by Bruce Schneier; 
published by John Wiley & Sons, Inc.; ISBN 0-471-11709-9.

PGP Users list and web site
http://pgp.rivertown.net/


================================================================

================================================================






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 12:17:41 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Changing to Moderated Cypherpunks -- How?
In-Reply-To: <199802050343.DAA46984@out5.ibm.net>
Message-ID: <199802052017.VAA02584@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Thu, 5 Feb 1998 07:24:11 -0500  Anonymous  wrote:

>>Too much noise in the unedited list.
>>
>>How does one change to the moderated list?
>
>Easy
>
>

Wow! Thanks for that tip! The cypherwatch list looks great.  I suggest you all
subscribe now!! :-)









From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ajhh4 
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 23:09:02 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <19943672.886214@relay.comanche.denmark.eu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Authenticated sender is 
Subject:  Friday
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

EMAIL MARKETING WORKS!!

Bull's Eye Gold is the PREMIER email address collection tool.
This program allows you to develop TARGETED lists of email
addresses.  Doctors, florists, MLM, biz opp,...you can collect
anything...you are only limited by your imagination!  You can
even collect email addresses for specific states, cities, and
even countries!  All you need is your web browser and this program.
Our software utilizes the latest in search technology called
"spidering". By simply feeding the spider program a starting
website it will collect for hours. The spider will go from website
to targeted website providing you with thousands upon thousands of
fresh TARGETED email addresses. When you are done collecting,  the
spider removes duplicates and saves the email list in a ready to
send format. No longer is it necessary to send millions of ads to
get a handful of responses...SEND LESS...EARN MORE!!!

A terrific aspect of the Bull's Eye software is that there is
no difficult set up involved and no special technical mumbo-jumbo
to learn. All you need to know is how to search for your targeted
market in one of the many search engines and let the spider do the
rest! Not familiar with the search engines? No problem, we provide
you with a list of all the top search engines. Just surf to the
location of a search engine on your browser then search for the
market you wish to reach...it's that easy!

For instance if you were looking for email addresses of Doctors
in New York all you would do is:

1) Do a search using your favorite search engine by typing in
the words doctor(s) and New York
2) Copy the URL (one or more)...that's the stuff after the
http://...  for instance it might look like
http://www.yahoo.com/?doctor(s)/?New+York
3) Press the START button

THAT's IT!!!  The Bull's Eye spider will go to all the websites
that are linked, automatically extracting the email addresses
you want.

The spider is passive too! That means you can let it run all
day or all night while you are working on important things or
just having fun on your computer. There is no need to keep a
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it praise when it delivers thousands of email addresses at
the end of the day!

Features of the Bull's Eye Software:

* Does TARGETED searches of websites collecting the email
  addresses you want!
* Collects Email addresses by City, State, even specific
  Countries
* Runs Automatically...simply enter the Starting information,
  press The Start Button, and it does the rest
* Filters out duplicates
* Keeps track of URLs already visited
* Can run 24 hours per day, 7 days per week
* Fast and Easy List Management
* Also has built in filtering options...you can put in words
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* Also imports email addresses from any kind of files (text
  files, binary files, database files)
* List editor handles Multiple files to work on many lists
  simultaneously
* Has a Black-Book feature... avoid sending emails to people
  who do not want to receive it
* Built-in Mail program...send email directly on the internet
  with just a click of your mouse
* Personalized Emails...if the email address has the user's
  name when it is collected,..you can send Personalized emails!!!
* Sort by Location, Server, User Name, Contact Name
* Advanced Operations:
· Email address lists export in many different formats
  (HTML, Comma delimited, text file)
· Advanced editing...Transfer, Copy,  Addition, Delete, Crop,
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· Operations between lists...Union, Subtraction, Comparison
* Program is Passive,...meaning you can run other programs at
  the same time

CALL FOR MORE INFORMATION   213-980-7850
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Please note:  Allow 5 business days for all checks to
clear before order is shipped.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: eureka@eureka.abc-web.com
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 01:39:29 -0800 (PST)
To: All Eureka! Subscribers: ;
Subject: Eureka! Fri Feb 6 '98
Message-ID: <19980206082121.11843.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Welcome to Friday's issue of Eureka!

PLAYGAL
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69 FREE PICS
No I did not count them,  but the number sounds good.  There 
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ANAL DESIRES
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GALAXSHE
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#READ THIS!! WIN $25,000 and a Fantasy Date - Click Here Now!
#$25,000! ---> http://208.195.150.31/us/us_main.cgi/us_5267/A
#
HOORAY! THE ADULT SEARCH ENGINE
Now you can search for the sex sites you are looking for and
fast!  This new search engine is setting the standard others
will follow.  It offers pop-up search and detailed listings!
Hooray! -----------------> http://eureka.abc-web.com/hooray/

FREE STREAMING VIDEO
Please note that most of these feeds require a Netscape bro-
wser in order to successfully view them. Unfortunately Micr-
osoft's browser does not have all the features of Netscape's
yet.  However, many of the feeds use the RealPlayer and will
work in most browsers.  If you do not have Netscape and want
a free copy click here --> http://www.netscape.com/download/
Bizarre ----------------------> http://204.244.215.7/teens2/

CHAT WITH OTHER READERS
Hey,  if you haven't checked out the Eureka! Chat sites yet,
you're  missing out  on some  great stuff.  Every day you'll
find hundreds of other readers just like you looking to chat
have fun and maybe a little 'cyber'. We know you'll love it!
Adult/Sex Chat -----------------> http://137.39.63.229/chat/
General/Fun Chat -------> http://137.39.63.229/chat/funchat/

HOT LIVE PHONE SEX TO MAKE YOU CUM!
LD Call only! - Live Hot Girls!!!!----------->1-664-410-3912
LIVE: 1-on-1, 2-on-1, Group, Dateline-------->1-800-644-8779
FREE: Live 1-on-1 (international call only)--->011-678-77416

NEW! CENTERFOLD PIC OF THE DAY
Exclusive!  We proudly present  unpublished Pictures of your
favorite Centerfolds.  Featured This Week: Dec 80-PMOY Terri
Welles, Dec 89-Petra Verkaik, Sept 93-Carrie Westcott, Kerri
Kendall,  Rebecca Ferratti,  Lydia Schone and many more too!
---------------------------> http://www.gatefold.com/eureka/

AMATEUR SITE OF THE DAY
Katie: A alluring blonde with a penchant for dildos, this young gal is
seductive! Bold and petite, this sexy little girl knows what men &
women want. She loves to please, and to be pleased. This gal is the
kind of girl Bill Clinton would want to have as an intern! Visit her
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---------------------------> http://amateurindex.com/eureka/

EROTIC STORY SITE OF THE DAY
Very Sexy Erotic Stories: Ready  for  lots  of hot, free sex
stories? Look no further than  Very Sexy Erotic Stories. All
different subjects, all free. ..... http://www.verysexy.com/

DAILY CARTOON ----------> http://www.erosinorbit.com/eureka/

ADULT STAR PIC OF THE DAY
Woah,  our Adult Star pics are getting hotter and hotter, so
make sure you stop by and check out today's - definitely not
to be missed! --------> http://www.xxxadultstars.com/eureka/

OTHER EUREKAS!
GAY EUREKA! ----------> http://eureka.abc-web.com/gayeureka/
DEUTSCH ------> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/deutsch.htm
ESPAŃOL ------> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/espanol.htm
FRANÇAIS ----> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/francais.htm
ITALIANO ----> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/italiano.htm
PORTUGUESE > http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/portuguese.htm

TODAY'S FREE PIX
Pic  1 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?060
Pic  2 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?061
Pic  3 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?062
Pic  4 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?063
Pic  5 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?064
Pic  6 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?065
Pic  7 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?066
Pic  8 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?067
Pic  9 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?068
Pic 10 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?069

============================================================
TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS NEWSLETTER,  USE THE REPLY FUNCTION
IN YOUR EMAIL PROGRAM, AND SEND THIS EMAIL RIGHT BACK TO US.
============================================================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 10:39:13 -0800 (PST)
To: usual suspects:
Subject: "The Internet needs a chastity chip." ---James Traficant, Dem-Ohio
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980206104015.00794d50@otc.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




http://www.yahoo.com/headlines/980206/wired/stories/cybersex_1.html



Friday February 6 10:07 AM EST 

Lawmaker warns of cybersex "pregnancy danger"

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Citing the case of a woman who claims she got
pregnant from e-mail, an Ohio Democrat called Wednesday for a "chastity
chip" for the Internet. 

Rep. James Traficant, known for his flamboyant rhetoric, gave a brief floor
speech about a woman named Frances who claimed to have gotten pregnant
through an e-mail exchange with a paramour 1,500 miles away. 

"That's right -- pregnant," the Congressman proclaimed, warning of the
dangers of "immaculate reception." 

He called on Congress to go beyond "v-chips" that would protect kids from
sexual content on the Internet, saying: "Its time for Congress to act. The
computers do not need a v-chip. The Internet needs a chastity chip." 

Although Traficant did not say whether he believed the woman's account, he
did say it was "enough to crash your hard drive." 

------------------------------------------------------------
      David Honig                   Orbit Technology
     honig@otc.net                  Intaanetto Jigyoubu

		Lewinsky for President '2012




	















From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: doorlist@doors.com
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 16:12:27 -0800 (PST)
To: doorlist@doors.com
Subject: RE: The Doors: Strange Days #3
Message-ID: <199802070010.RAA03551@quasar.fiber.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



    WELCOME  to The Doors Collectors Magazines
             Strange Days News Emailer  Vol. 3
 
              The Celebration Has Just Begun!

 
STRANGE DAYS  MEMORABILIA  NEWS  ITEMS:

   Congratulations to the five Doors Autographed Box Set winners! These Doors box sets were signed by Ray, John, and Robby on the front cover of the inside book and were given away to random people from our Strange Days Email List.  The winners were: Jim Kearns (Camillus, NY),  Ainslee Rogers (Hamilton, Canada),  Suzie Williams (Harrogate, TN), and Barry Abbott (Ermington, Austrailia), and Laura Pritchett (Missoula, MT).  This contest added over 1,000 people to our email list, so watch out for promotions similar to this in the future!

   The Doors Tour Equipment from our last emailer is still available. One envious person on the net is saying that these items aren't authentic... Vince Treanor (The Doors Road Manager) wanted me to pass along the message that he would be happy to talk to any prospective buyers who believe this bullshit. Call me to set up a three way call to Vince. Prospective buyers only please!

   Recently lots of new memorabilia items have turned up due to the release of the box set.  The rest of this issue of the Strange Days News Emailer is dedicated solely to new items that are both "Wanted" and are "For Sale".  If you aren't into collecting Doors memorabilia, you still might want to read on; I've tried to put a little news into each entry.  Enjoy!  For more info about how to order, please go to:
http://www.doors.com/door_mem/


STRANGE  DAYS  MEMORABILIA  ITEMS  FOR  SALE:

*** The Doors Albums on Postage Stamps!  
   Late last month the island of St. Vincent issued a set of six stamps which commemorated the 30th anniversary of The Doors first LP.  Never before has any country issued such a complete set of stamps to honor an artists complete catalogue of studio material before! Each stamp for each Doors album! The Doors Collectors Magazine has a number of these stamp sets available right now for $10 per sheet (eight stamps per sheet.)  While supplies last we will also give you a FREE collector portfolio ($20 value) to keep your stamps in if you buy the complete set of six stamps at the same time ($60 + $4.50 s&h). 
For more information, please see:
http://www.doors.com/door_mem/other/sv_stamp.html

*** Autographed Box Sets 
   (w/ Ray, John, and Robby's sigs) We have a few of them available for sale at $175 plus postage. Please email first because our supply won't last long!

*** "A New Epitaph For Pere-Lachaise" Poster
   with poem by Jan Eloise Morris. This 24x36 poster is in its fourth year of world-wide distribution. The photograph was taken in 1968 by Doors photographer, Paul Ferrara. Jim was captured in a rare moment with sunlight falling on his shoulders in front of the Observatory in Griffith Park in Los Angeles, California. The poster's publication in 1994 marked the only time another artist's poetry has been authorized to appear with Morrison's image. Jan's association with The Doors Collectors Magazine affords us the exclusive opportunity to offer signed, dated copies only through this web site. Price: $20 includes shipping U.S. (please add $5 for delivery outside of the U.S.)
For more information, please see:
http://www.doors.com/door_mem/posters/epitaph.html

*** "My Eyes Have Seen You"
   The most visually important book on The Doors that was ever published is now available through The Doors Collectors Magazine!  This limited edition book (of 1,500 copies) was put together by Jerry Prochnicky (author, Break On Through) and Joe Russo (lead singer, The Soft Parade). 150 pages of both color and B&W photos. Highly recommended!   Price: $20 (plus $4.50 s&h)
For more information, please see:
http://www.doors.com/door_mem/books/myeyes.html

*** Autographed 5" x 7" B&W Promotional Photo 
   of The Doors signed by all four Doors:  Given away to members of The Doors official fan club back in 1968. Very rare! Framed. Excellent condition.  While some of these photos have been suspect to not being all they're cracked up to be, this one comes with Doors Collectors Magazine Guarantee & Certificate of Authenticity. Price: $2,500 (plus $4.50 s&h)

*** Original "Jim Morrison Film Festival" / HWY Poster 
   Even if you don't want (or can't afford) this poster, you have to check it out! It is the most incredible original Jim Morrison poster ever made ...and one of the rarest!  This poster was folded  as it was stored so it does have damage, but looks great framed even still.  Price: $2,200  (plus $4.50 s&h)
For more information, please see:
http://www.doors.com/door_mem/posters/hwyposter.html

*** An American Prayer Acetate.  
   We have a private collection that we are offering for sale which includes test pressings of An American Prayer LP.  These copies came from someone who was directly responsible for many production decisions on the An American Prayer LP release. Acetates are temporary albums good for playing only a few times that are necessary to check how the sound will be when the tape gets pressed onto the actual vinyl.  There are probably only these copies for the entire An American Prayer release in existence! Both have their original Capital Records Mastering Jackets and are individually are described below:

   Copy #1: dated 9-20-78 Exc. Condition. One double sided album that contains all songs.  Price $500 (plus $4.50 s&h)

  Copy #2: dated 10-13-78 Exc. Condition. A pair of two single sided albums that are missing two songs on each side.  Price: $650 (plus $4.50 s&h)

   For a complete listing of ALL OTHER items from this same private collection, check out:
http://www.doors.com/door_mem/museum/private_collection.html

*** The Church of The Doors' Deadly Doorknell  
   If you're a hard core Doors fan you'll remember former Church of The Doors High Mojomuck, Anthony Spurlock when he made headlines in 1992 inside Newsweek magazine.  He also made news again when he single handedly thwarted off a public attack from radio station evangelist, Bob Larson. Sadly after this the church closed it's doors forever. 
   For years I've been trying to get permission to reprint these. Finally I've done it!  You can now obtain quality reprints direct from the masters of their best (and last) two issues (Spring 1992 & Winter 1992-93) for the same $5 each (plus postage) that they originally cost. For more information on The Church, check out the new article on our website's On-Line Magazine written back in 1993 for our first printed magazine by their High Mojomuck, Anthony Spurlock located at:
http://www.doors.com/magazine/

To read more about the actual Church of the Doors fanzines (The Deadly Doorknell) go to: http://www.doors.com/door_mem/fanzines

*** Oakley Krieger Band performing LIVE w/ Robby Krieger
   at the Whisky-A-Go-Go in Los Angeles (3-15-97) It's their complete performance on video...and what a great performance!   The OK Band features Robby Krieger's son Waylon on guitars and Berry Oakley's son, Berry Oakley Jr. on vocals.  Videotaped and produced by the OK Band, this electrifying performance is now available on video tapes that are autographed on their label by both Waylon and Berry!
Price: $25 (plus $4.50 s&h) 
Autographed copies available at no extra charge only while supplies last!
For more information, please go to:
http://www.doors.com/door_mem/videos/OKBand.html

*** FREE LIVE SHOW TAPE*** 
   During the months of February & March if you mention this ad, we will give one FREE 90 minute cassette volume from our trade list with every $100 spent on Doors MEMORABILIA from our list at:
http://www.doors.com/door_mem/
Or you can check out our list of LIVESHOW audio cassette tapes for trade at:
http://www.doors.com/liveshow/

*** ATTENTION  EUROPEAN  DOORS  FANS***
    We now have capabilities to dub our trade videos directly in PAL at no additional trade value.

*** Original hard cover copies of Wild Child by Linda Ashcroft were pulled from the shelves in the UK when it's controversial writings were challenged in court.  Linda informed The Doors Collectors Magazine that her publisher will be re-issuing an edited book in paperback form sometime in mid-June. If any of you have *hardcover copies* for sale, please email me!



*** MEMORABILIA  ITEMS  WANTED:

If you have any of these items and are interested in selling them at a reasonable price or if you have an item that you're looking for and would like to have it included on our next "Want List", please call or email me your price or price range!  I have tentative buyers for all of the following items.  

	BOOKS  WANTED
 "Riders On The Storm" Audio Book
"Jim Morrison & The Doors" book by Mike Jahn
"The American Night" Hard Cover (only) book by Jim Morrison
"Wild Child" hard cover book by Linda Ashcroft
All privately published editions of all three of Morrison's poetry books

	LPS  WANTED  (Exc condition or better only)
Doors: "13" LP
Doors: "Absolutely Live" LP
Doors: "Full Circle" LP
Doors: "Other Voices" LP
Doors: "Strange Days" LP (mono issue only)
Doors: "The Doors" LP (mono issue only)
Doors: "Waiting For The Sun" LP (mono issue only)
Doors: "Weird Scenes Inside The Goldmine" LP
Doors: "LA Woman" LP (original issue only)
Doors: "'The Doors' movie soundtrack" LP
Ray Manzarek's "Carmina Burana" LP
Ray Manzarek's "Nite City Golden Days Diamond Nights" LP
Ray Manzarek's "Nite City" LP
"Comfortable Chair" LP
"Phantoms Divine Comedy" LP
"Phantoms Lost Album" LP
Any PROMO issued LPs for The Doors or the solo members

	OTHER DOORS ITEMS WANTED:
1968 Doors Tour Book
All Doors Bootleg LPs and CDs
Doors RIAA Gold & Platinum Awards
"Tribute to Jim Morrison" Video
"Dance On Fire" Video
Doors Tickets or Ticket Stubs (esp. Miami '69)
All Doors 45s that have Picture Sleeves (both foreign & domestic)
Any Doors 8-Track Tapes (exc cond. only)

	OTHER NON-DOORS ITEMS WANTED:
Milkwood: "How's The Weather" LP
3-D Stereo Cameras or Projectors
3-D Stereo Cards or Slides
Collectable Cameras


	THIS IS THE END MY FRIEND... TILL NEXT TIME!

Kerry  (kerry@doors.com)
The Doors Collectors Magazine
c/o TDM Inc
PO Box 1441
Orem, UT  84059
















***********
Thanks you for reading The Doors Collectors Magazine's Strange Days Email Newsletter. It is sent ONLY to subscribers. If you were subscribed by someone other than yourself and wish to be removed from our list please
1) accept our apologies and
2)  return this message back to doorlist@doors.com with "REMOVE" in the subject line or go to
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***********





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 1gI93TS23@juno.com
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 13:43:57 -0800 (PST)
To: customer@juno.com
Subject: Subliminally Seduce Women Instantly
Message-ID: <6ORJuc63p6U>
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: foupe%compuserve.com@oscsystems.com
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 02:12:50 -0800 (PST)
To: foupe@compuserve.com
Subject: Young Hot Girls New Site
Message-ID: <199802074293XAA44563@post.99.231.3>
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: eureka@eureka.abc-web.com
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 02:46:05 -0800 (PST)
To: All Eureka! Subscribers: ;
Subject: Eureka! Sat Feb 7 '98
Message-ID: <19980207083702.2795.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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============================================================
TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS NEWSLETTER,  USE THE REPLY FUNCTION
IN YOUR EMAIL PROGRAM, AND SEND THIS EMAIL RIGHT BACK TO US.
============================================================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ASCOM@hx3em6.net
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 10:48:28 -0800 (PST)
To: ASCOM@juno.com
Subject: Make $50,000+ through the mail for FREE!
Message-ID: <68354425_85875416>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Subject: GET LEGAL CASH IN MAIL W/ ONLY $5.00

READ THIS YOU WON'T BE SORRY, I WASN'T    
   
This will be the quickest way to get cash in the mail.If you follow these
instructions carefully, you will be able to receive within two months
nearly $50,000.00.  The great part is is that $5.00 isn't really a whole
lot and it could just be worth a try.  I am currently 6 months pregnant and
my husband and I are in debt.  We both have really good professions but he
has massive student loans and credit card bills (I was lucky and my father
helped me through college).  Needless to say, since we are married to one      
another I acquired his debt also.  In any case, I followed these easy steps
thinking that I really had nothing to lose and guess what? The first week I    
started getting money in the mail! I was shocked! I still figured it would
end soon. The money just kept coming in. In my first week, I made about        
$20.00 to $30.00 dollars. By the end of the second week I had made a total
of over $1,000.00!!!!!! In the third             
week I had over $10,000.00 and it's still growing. This is now my fourth
week and I have made a total of just over $42,000.00 and it's still coming     
in .......

You send $1.00 to each of the 5 names and address stated in the
article. You then place your own name and address in the bottom of the
list at #5, and post the article in at least 200 newsgroups. (There
are thousands) and that is all.  

Let me tell you how this works and most importantly, Why  
it works....also, make sure you print a copy of this article NOW, so    
you can get the information off of it as you need it. The process is    
very simple and consists of 3 easy steps: 

Like most of us, I was a little skeptical and   
a little worried about the legal aspects of it all. So I checked it  
out with the U.S. Post Office (1-800-725-2161) and they confirmed 
that it is indeed legal! 

Seriously, your story will sound like this one if you participate by doing
the following:  

STEP 1: Get 5 separate pieces of paper and write your address on each
piece of paper along with "PLEASE PUT ME ON YOUR MAILING LIST."
 Now get 5 $1.00 bills and place ONE inside EACH of the 5 pieces of paper so th
e bill will  
not be seen through the envelope to prevent thievery. Next, place one paper
in each of the 5 envelopes and seal them. You should now have 5 sealed
envelopes, each with a piece of paper stating the above phrase and a $1.00
bill. What you are doing is creating a service by this. THIS IS PERFECTLY
LEGAL!            

Mail the 5 envelopes to the following addresses:


#1      Corey McNear
        233 Olive st.  
        West Reading, PA 19611    
 
#2      R. M.
        66 Navesink Drive
        Monmouth Beach, NJ  07750     

#3      Sam    
        27248 Grano Avenue
        Saugus, CA 91350

#4      Pat anderson
        41 pilote
        st-ambroise Pq

#5	Nick Austin
	12318 Dollar Lk dr
	Fenton, MI 48430-9734

STEP 2: Now take the #1 name off the list that you see above, move the
other names up (2 becomes 1, 3 becomes 2, etc...) and add YOUR Name as
number 5 on the list.

STEP 3: Change anything you need to, but try to keep this article as
close to original as possible. Now, post your amended article to at
least 200 newsgroups. (I think there is close to 18,000 groups) All
you need is 200, but remember, the more you post, the more money you
make!
    
Don't know HOW to post in the newsgroups? Well do exactly the
following: 

FOR NETSCAPE USERS:     
1) Click on any newsgroup, like normal. Then click on "To News", which
is in the top left corner of the newsgroup page. This will bring up a
message box.     

2) Fill in the SUBJECT with a flashy title, like the one I used,
something to catch the eye!!!

3) Now go to the message part of the box and retype this letter     
exactly as it is here, with exception of your few changes. (remember
to add your name to number 5 and move the rest up)
6

4) When your done typing in the WHOLE letter, click on 'FILE' above
the send button. Then, 'SAVE AS..' DO NOT SEND YOUR ARTICLE UNTILL YOU
SAVE IT. (so you don't have toype this 200 times :-)     

5) Now that you have saved the letter, go ahead and send your first
copy! (click the 'SEND' button in the top left corner)    

6) This is where you post all 200! OK, go to ANY newsgroup article and
click the 'TO NEWS' button again. Type in your flashy subject in the
'SUBJECT BOX', then go to the message and place your cursor here. Now 
click on 'ATTACHMENT' which is right below the 'SUBJECT BOX'. Click on
attach file then find your letter wherever you saved it.  Click once
on your file then click 'OPEN' then click 'OK'.  If you did this right
, you should see your filename in the 'ATTACHMENT BOX' and it will be
shaded.   

NOW POST AWAY!   

FOR INTERNET EXPLORER:     
It's just as easy, holding down the left mouse button, highlight this
entire article, then press the 'CTRL' key and 'C' key at the same time
to copy this article. Then print the article for your records to have 
the names of those you will be sending $1.00 to.   

Go to the newsgroups and press 'POST AN ARTICLE' type in your flashy
subject and click the large window below. Press 'CTRL' and 'V' and the
article will appear in the message window. **BE SURE TO MAKE YOUR
ADDRESS CHANGES TO THE 5 NAMES.** Now re-highlight the article and 
re-copy it so you have the changes.... then all you have to do for  
each newsgroup is 'CTRL' and 'V' and press 'POST'. It's that easy!!  
THAT'S IT! All you have to do is jump to different newsgroups and post
away, after you get the hang of it, it will take about 30 seconds for
each newsgroup!   

**REMEMBER, THE MORE NEWSGROUPS YOU POST IN, THE MORE MONEY YOU WILL
MAKE!! BUT YOU HAVE TO POST A MINIMUM OF 200**

**If these instructions are too complex to follow, try Forte's "Free
Agent." It is freeware for noncommercial use. To download it, simply
use a search utility and type "Forte Free Agent". You should be able 
to find it.**   

That's it! You will begin receiving money from around the world within
days! You may eventually want to rent a P.O. Box due to the large
amount of mail you receive. If you wish to stay anonymous, you can  
invent a name to use, as long as the postman will deliver it. **JUST  
MAKE SURE ALL THE ADDRESSES ARE CORRECT.** 

Now the WHY part: 

This entire principle works because it is in a format of an upside    
down tree with thousands of branches. Everyone below you will see to
it that the tree continues because they want to get money. Those
below THEM will continue because THEY want to get the cash etc.

Out of 200 postings, say I receive only 5 replies (a very low
example). So then I made $5.00 with my name at #5 on the letter. Now,
each of the 5 persons who just sent me $1.00 make the MINIMUM 200   
postings, each with my name at #4 and only 5 persons respond to each
of the original 5, that is another $25.00 for me, now those 25 each 
make 200 MINIMUM posts with my name at #3 and only 5 replies each, I
will bring in an additional $125.00! Now, those 125 persons turn
around and post the MINIMUM 200 with my name at #2 and only receive 5 
replies each, I will make an additional $626.00! OK, now here is the
fun part, each of those 625 persons post a MINIMUM of 200 letters 
with my name at #1 and they each only receive 5 replies, that just  
made me $3,125.00!!! With a original investment of only $5.00!
AMAZING! And as I said 5 responses is actually VERY LOW!  Average is
probable 20 to 30! So lets put those figures at just 15 responses
per person. Here is what you will make:

at #5 $15.00   
at #4 $225.00    
at #3 $3,375.00 
at #2 $50,625.00
at #1 $759,375.00    

When your name is no longer on the list, you just take the latest
posting in the newsgroups, and send out another $5.00 to names on the
list, putting your name at number 5 and start posting again. 
The thing to remember is that thousands of people all over the world
are joining the Internet and reading these articles everyday, JUST  
LIKE YOU are now!! And this will go on and on and on and on.... get 
the picture? Well, there's 5,000,000,000 people on the world and 
most of them will eventually end up being hooked into the internet.
So  there are virtually unlimited resources. Of course this will work
the best at the very beginning so the faster you post, the better for
YOU!     

People have said, "what if the plan is played out and no one
sends you the money? So what! What are the chances of that happening
when there are tons of new honest users and new honest people who are
joining the Internet and newsgroups everyday and are willing to
give it a try? Estimates are at 20,000 to 50,000 new users,
every day, with thousands of those joining the actual Internet.
Remember, play FAIRLY and HONESTLY and this will work. You just have
to be honest.  Make sure you print this article out RIGHT NOW, also.
Try to keep a list of everyone that sends you money and always keep an
eye on the newsgroups to make sure everyone is playing fairly. 

Remember, HONESTY IS THE BEST POLICY. You don't need to cheat the   
basic idea to make the money!!       

GOOD LUCK to all and please play fairly and reap the huge rewards from
this, which is tons of extra CASH. **By the way, if you try to deceive
people by posting the messages with y name in the list and not    
sending the money to the rest of the people already onhe list, you 
will NOT get as much. Someone I talked to knew someone who did that
and he only made about $150.00, and that's after seven or eight weeks!
Then he sent the 5 $1.00 bills, people added him to their lists, and
in 4-5 weeks he had over $10k. This ishe fairest and most honest way
I have ever seen to share the wealth of the world without costing 
anything but our time!!! You also may want to buy mailing and e-mail
lists for future dollars.    

Please remember to declare your extra income.   Thanks once again...





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 17:31:02 -0800 (PST)
To: John Young 
Subject: Re: Washington on the verge of being nuked?
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19980208003515.00744198@pop.pipeline.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


John Young  writes:

> Manhattan would be easily blown, remotely. Place a time-charge
> beneath a car at the head each principal subway line (which
> commence in other boroughs), set to blow at the main stations.
>
> For the West Side, supplement with a charge in the PATH train
> from Jersey.
>
> For the East Side, supplement with another in the LI Railroad
> from the Island.

Also Metronorth coming into Grand Central on 42nd st.., But:

Most subways are underground in Manhattan. A device that gives off enough
bang to be felt above ground has to be at least as big as a suitcase. How
likely is a suitcase unaccompanied by a human to go unnoticed on NYC
subway? Not very. Under a bus seat? A little less noticeable.

A smaller timed device would be limited to blowing up or gassing or
incinerating only whoever's on the subway - and the worthy victims
don't take the subway.

I think a parked car (or a car driven by a suicidal driver) is more
likely for delivering a suitcase or larger.

> Forget anything above 86th Street, they'll applaud; like the
> WVA and VA hillfolks will hooray the destruction of see-navel
> DC and its high-pitch babbling wonks.

I object to any terrorist plans that don't include the complete
destruction of Columbia University and the City College too. :-)

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: eureka@eureka.abc-web.com
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 03:44:27 -0800 (PST)
To: All Eureka! Subscribers: ;
Subject: Eureka! Sun Feb 8 '98
Message-ID: <19980208083853.9584.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: foupe@compuserve.com
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 09:54:38 -0800 (PST)
To: foupe@compuserve.com
Subject: Young Hot Girls New Site
Message-ID: <199802081631RAA1411@post.120.165.41>
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Kurt Bantelmann 
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 12:52:48 -0800 (PST)
To: Owner 
Subject: Global Ethics Cosmosofy
Message-ID: <199802081552_MC2-326E-5452@compuserve.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


To: Cypherpunks, editor.
We are impressed by your social commitment on the Internet and 
think you may find that Global Ethics Cosmosofy would 
even better support your activities and spiritual concerns since 
universal values have precedence over limited group moral codes 
in cases of conflict and its peaceful resolution in a cooperating 
information oriented and interdependent world community. 
The better arguments can be yours free, to be viewed on the 
Cosmosofy Institute Foundation website: 



But there is more to it:
(1) Global Ethics and the overall doctrine tentatively termed 
COSMOSOFY (similar to 'globalism') will not only assist you in 
ethics to identify the higher and highest values to which priority 
consideration must be given in each case, in particular where 
a psychological or social conflict has to be resolved rationally 
and peacefully. It also helps to avoid and cure psychic disorders 
most of which are attributable to dogmatic indoctrination methods 
during childhood but which tend to remain unconscious, since 
people usually deny they feel indoctrinated. 

A severe conflict potential for humanity in the present historical 
moment is its more or less unconscious subjugation to outdated 
arbitrary moral precepts and codes imposed and indoctrinated 
during adolescence (where spiritual maturity is low), thus 
obstructing later undogmatic moral and ethical updating flexibility 
and development. However, any change of this unwholesome and 
dangerous situation is considered a political TABOO for social 
and cultic stability reasons and social control in the absence 
of GLOBAL ETHICS and a UNIVERSAL UNDOGMATIC 
RELIGION, although now possible at this historical junction.
Cosmosofy Universal Ethics provides interdisciplinary thinking 
and action patterns, not of the usual type of non-merging 
interdisciplinary exchange programs but of the new type to be 
merged in one's own mind which is now accessible for 
everybody due to interactive feedback information structures. 

(2) COSMOSOFY UNIVERSAL ETHICS
Subject: Interdisciplinary, linking  religion, law, sociology, 
philosophy, politics, sciences.

The so far missing universal ethics is provided by the 
interdisciplinarian author Bert Tellan, founder of COSMOSOFY 
and undogmatic religion (Cyber-Religion) as a doctrine designed to 
constitute the so far missing foundation for the legal 
and religious system's priority values in a peacefully cooperating and 
closely communicating global community. So far mankind was dependent
only on particularistic morals that were mutually exclusive and could 
therefore not be validated universally: of importance for peace, conflict 
resolution competence and qualification, and ecological issues. 

(3) You will find that Global Ethics Cosmosofy & Undogmatic Religion 
has been constructed with the aim to solve dogmatic 'religions' (regarded 
as cults acc. to Kant if used as an end in itself instead of a means)seen 
as a 
social PROBLEM (to be solved instead of being merely studied)  for a 
modern global society and world culture in order to 
avoid continuing antagonism instead of promoting real peace in the sense 
of absolute pacifism. So far nations, cultures or religious organizations 
favored peace conditionally under their own moral terms (excepting the 
need of 'holy' for Islamic or 'just' wars for Christians). This is no
longer 
possible in a world saturated with means of push-button mass destruction. 
In this historical context dogmatic religious cult is  no longer seen as 
an unending study subject for scientifically detached sociologists or 
psychologists of religion (just wondering as William James did at the 
great variety of religions) while making a living from it and get 
research funds - while, on the other end, no church or other educational 
institution ever bothered to even make an attempt of funding the 'further 
development or advancement of religion and of religiousness'. All the while

the Advancement of Science is considered a respectable institution: another

grave cultural inconsistency we have been indoctrinated not to notice. 
To the contrary, all through history any 'further development of religious 
thought' was condemned, persecuted as heretic or apostasy, philosophers 
or reformers (including Jesus) having been murdered to this day. This is 
due to a flawed idea of unchanging 'religion' (=false religion) which is to

be regarded as a problem and not as an endless subject of study or even 
of tolerance while cannibalism and illiteracy are also no longer being 
tolerated, in the very name of an improved, in-depth understanding of 
dynamic religion. 
The solution, thus, does not advocate atheism, non-belief or arbitrary 
values as is wrongly suggested for post-modernism, since, quite to the 
contrary, the arbitrariness of cultural relativistic values is hereby 
overcome having the whole of humanity, individual justice and human 
rights for all in mind, and not for some privileged classes or groups only.

And thus to establish true peace for mankind and be prepared for a new 
era of common cosmic adventure or communication instead of 
continuous strife with the risk of self-extinction.

View the Cosmosofy Institute Foundation Website (featuring around 100 
new articles on unresolved modern and prognosticized issues and the
consistent application of global ethics to their solution in each case): 



Cosmosofy Institute Foundation. Kurt C. Bantelmann, editor. More details 
on request. Fax:(49)211.489533. E-mail: 106562.2403@compuserve.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
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To: Friend@public.com
Subject: HERE IS HOW TO BULK EMAIL...
Message-ID: <>
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: eureka@eureka.abc-web.com
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 01:01:14 -0800 (PST)
To: All Eureka! Subscribers: ;
Subject: Eureka! Mon Feb 9 '98
Message-ID: <19980209081732.24447.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: yourfriend8950@psynet.net
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 17:13:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Online Credit Card Transactions for $39.95!!
Message-ID: <199802100111.BAA03828@server1.online-now.de>
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: eureka@eureka.abc-web.com
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 03:24:16 -0800 (PST)
To: All Eureka! Subscribers: ;
Subject: Eureka! Tue Feb 10 '98
Message-ID: <19980210083153.1416.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Welcome to Tuesday's issue of Eureka!

EROTIC PARADISE
One  of the  largest pay  sites on the web, Erotic Paradise,
has now opened its doors to FREE memberships.  That's right,
you can now get an entire week of hot videos, 1,000s of pix,
and much, much more - and it's complely FREE.  Check it out!
------> http://www.mr-cash.com/cgi-bin/gold.cgi/raw_3266/999

My Sister NAKED! FREE PIX
http://205.134.162.9/sister/
I took pictures of my sister naked!

EATING AT THE "Y"
Creative use of webdesign.  Lots of free pix.  These are not
your  ordinary women.  These are hot  looking babes!  Saddle
on up to the  bar for some real food.  Snack  on a brunette,
dine with a blonde.  Maybe food does mix with sex?  Surf by.
Eating at the Y ... http://207.156.223.181/they/warning.html

DEVIL'S DELIGHT
This is a paysite.  There are three  free pix however.  They
load fast and are high resolution.  One is of a woman taking
on two  large cocks.  Next is a  hot looking blonde.  Pussy!
Devil's Delight .............. http://www.devilsdelight.com/ 
 
PLANET EROTIC
This is  a paysite.  But that is  not a bad thing.  There is 
something you have to see to believe. Click the guest button
and proceed by  clicking on the free pics text links.  After
about four  pages of these links (located at the bottom) you 
will  arrive  at some thumbnails.  On the  second row of pix
third  one to the right,  click that one.  Mysterious labia!
Planet Erotic .................. http://www.planeterotic.com

PORNO MACHINE
Pretty good website!  Decent webdesign  and use of graphics.
They feature  some free  pix as well.  Lots of pussy  filled
to the brim  with cock.  The pix are not  huge but they load
quick.  Oh and there are free videos! This is a busy server.
Porno Machine ................. http://www.pornomachine.com/

READ THIS!! WIN $25,000 and a Fantasy Date - Click Here Now!
$25,000! ---> http://208.195.150.31/us/us_main.cgi/us_5267/A

HOORAY! THE ADULT SEARCH ENGINE
Now you can search for the sex sites you are looking for and
fast!  This new search engine is setting the standard others
will follow.  It offers pop-up search and detailed listings!
Hooray! -----------------> http://eureka.abc-web.com/hooray/

FREE STREAMING VIDEO
Please note that most of these feeds require a Netscape bro-
wser in order to successfully view them. Unfortunately Micr-
osoft's browser does not have all the features of Netscape's
yet.  However, many of the feeds use the RealPlayer and will
work in most browsers.  If you do not have Netscape and want
a free copy click here --> http://www.netscape.com/download/
Three dicks -------------------> http://207.168.184.26/trip/

CHAT WITH OTHER READERS
Hey,  if you haven't checked out the Eureka! Chat sites yet,
you're  missing out  on some  great stuff.  Every day you'll
find hundreds of other readers just like you looking to chat
have fun and maybe a little 'cyber'. We know you'll love it!
Adult/Sex Chat -----------------> http://137.39.63.229/chat/
General/Fun Chat -------> http://137.39.63.229/chat/funchat/

HOT LIVE PHONE SEX TO MAKE YOU CUM!
LD Call only! - Live Hot Girls!!!!----------->1-664-410-3912
LIVE: 1-on-1, 2-on-1, Group, Dateline-------->1-800-644-8779
FREE: Live 1-on-1 (international call only)--->011-678-77416

NEW! CENTERFOLD PIC OF THE DAY
Exclusive!  We proudly present  unpublished Pictures of your
favorite Centerfolds.  Featured This Week: Dec 80-PMOY Terri
Welles, Dec 89-Petra Verkaik, Sept 93-Carrie Westcott, Kerri
Kendall,  Rebecca Ferratti,  Lydia Schone and many more too!
---------------------------> http://www.gatefold.com/eureka/

AMATEUR SITE OF THE DAY
Claire:   Claire   and   her   husband   (Andy)   are   true
exhibitionists who love  to  show  off, especially together.
Claire keeps an erotic  diary  that  puts  most magazines to
shame. This is one hot couple, check them out and read about
all their dirty adventures.
---------------------------> http://amateurindex.com/eureka/

EROTIC STORY SITE OF THE DAY
StoriesAndPics.com: StoriesAndPics.com gives you the best of
both worlds. Visit the site Yahoo calls "The Ultimate Erotic
Stories Site" Over  50  categories  of  sex  stories and XXX
pics! ....................... http://www.storiesandpics.com/

DAILY CARTOON ----------> http://www.erosinorbit.com/eureka/

ADULT STAR PIC OF THE DAY
Woah,  our Adult Star pics are getting hotter and hotter, so
make sure you stop by and check out today's - definitely not
to be missed! --------> http://www.xxxadultstars.com/eureka/

OTHER EUREKAS!
GAY EUREKA! ----------> http://eureka.abc-web.com/gayeureka/
DEUTSCH ------> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/deutsch.htm
ESPAŃOL ------> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/espanol.htm
FRANÇAIS ----> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/francais.htm
ITALIANO ----> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/italiano.htm
PORTUGUESE > http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/portuguese.htm

TODAY'S FREE PIX
Pic  1 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?100
Pic  2 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?101
Pic  3 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?102
Pic  4 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?103
Pic  5 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?104
Pic  6 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?105
Pic  7 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?106
Pic  8 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?107
Pic  9 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?108
Pic 10 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?109

============================================================
TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS NEWSLETTER,  USE THE REPLY FUNCTION
IN YOUR EMAIL PROGRAM, AND SEND THIS EMAIL RIGHT BACK TO US.
============================================================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: o0brainiac0o@hotmail.com
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 17:21:50 -0800 (PST)
To: SykoTooT@aol.com
Subject: Great H/P/V/A Site...packed with useful filez. Check it out!
Message-ID: <14378813_56286280>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Sup,
  I found this great H/P/V/A site that You gotta see.  Its packed with tonz of useful texts and programs...it's worth the visit.


       http://www.ndi.net/~toot/

and please dont ferget to visit his sponsors since he is presently making only half as much as he needs to keep the site up and running.


      http://www.ndi.net/~toot/cash/


                                   o0brainiac0o




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: majordomo@bulkemailserver.com
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 01:08:55 -0800 (PST)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: Please send information
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Please send us more information on your product, service, business and/or
money making opportunity.  We are always looking for more ways to make money
and looking for resources to refer to our customers.  You may send us your information
at insane.income2@mailexcite.com  Do not hit reply because we will not receive it.

Do you need a NEW IDENTITY/ NEW ID/ PRIVACY/ PROTECTION/ CREDIT?

If yes, send an email to our Auto Responder at newid-info@freeyellow.com
Within minutes you should automatically receive more detailed information.
There is no need to type a message to us because we will not see.
The auto responder is an automated service that is programmed to send 
what we have already entered.

Do to the HIGH DEMAND FOR THIS INFORMATION your email may
not go through.  If after 10 minutes you haven't received anything than
fax us at (209) 952-8555 and request the "NEW IDENTITY" information.

HURRY,  get the information NOW!  We have a time limited
SPECIAL OFFER.  The information says that special expires
on Feb. 16, 1998, but because of the holiday we have extended the
special 2 more days, until Feb. 18, 1998!

Thank you for your time.  Remember, please send us information
on your offer (please DO NOT fax it, email it only).

P.S.  If you want to find out how we got RICH from the internet
go to http://www.freeyellow.com/members2/insaneincome. 
FREE INFORMATION!  You may also email your request to
insane.income@mailexcite.com  Please state that you want
"FREE INFORMATION ON HOW TO GET RICH ON THE 
INTERNET" (Please DO NOT fax this request, email it only).

THANKS AGAIN!
financehelp@juno.com
financehelp@juno.com
financehelp@juno.com
financehelp@juno.com
financehelp@juno.com
insane.income@mailexcite.com
new.you@mailexcite.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: sbcom@wainfleet.ids.on.ca
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 20:47:12 -0800 (PST)
To: sbcom@wainfleet.ids.on.ca
Subject: RYNO Seminar -- 18 February
Message-ID: <199802110441.XAA11595@e-bizness.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


GETTING ELECTRONIC MEDICAL RECORDS INTO THE EXAM ROOM

You are cordially invited to join RYNO, 4MD, Citrix and Symbol Technologies
for a FREE seminar on a cost-effective method of getting electronic medical
records into the exam room.

At this half-day event you will hear several success stories on how other
Health Care Institutions have implemented this program and benefited from
innovative technology to increase profitability and efficiency.  If you are
interested in this technology, but cannot make it to the seminar, please
contact RYNO's Healthcare Vertical Manager, Veronica Henderson at
vhenderson@ryno.com or call her at 1-800-366-7966, xt 265 to learn more.

Date:          Wednesday, Feb. 18th, 1998
Time:          Registration & Breakfast 9:00am*
          Seminar: 9:30am
          Adjourn and Hosted Lunch: 12:00pm*
Location:      Marriott Hotel, Walnut Creek
          2355 North Main St.
                     Walnut Creek, CA 94596
          510-934-2000
RSVP:          707-746-6252 x262 or email - jramirez@ryno.com
          Please respond by February 13th

*Breakfast and  Lunch are complimentary

Please feel free to RSVP anyone else who may be interested in attending.
We look forward to seeing you there!

Joy Ramirez
RYNO
4271 Park Road
Benicia CA 94510
707-746-6252 x262
jramirez@ryno.com


SYMBOL TECHNOLOGIES AND 4MD CORPORATION:

Healthcare provider needs can finally be addressed electronically.  Symbol
Technologies and 4MD Corporation provide a complete point-of-care solution
for healthcare providers using a Winframe Server.  4MD Corporation has
developed a simple, yet powerful, browser-based, Clinical Decision Support
(CDS) application that runs on the Symbol wireless thin client over a
Citrix Winframe.  Healthcare providers can now pull up patient records,
review electronic medical records, lab reports, radiology reports and other
patient information as well as clinical guidelines all at a patient's
bedside, or in the exam room on a handheld, flatscreen, mobile thin client.

Symbol Technologies and 4MD Corporation solutions are designed for
high-performance data management, and for satisfying the unique demands of
healthcare applications where mobility, durability and ease of operations
are a must.

WINFRAME:

   Is the only software that allows you to access a single server with
   virtually any Windows application from across any type of network
   connection by any desktop without the software being installed on the
   desktop!
   Allows you to use existing hardware (old 386, 486 PC's) and still use
   advanced software applications, thus getting longer use out of the
   hardware and saving money.
   Gives IS departments more control and manageability over the network.
   Allows remote offices to access information easily from the main
   headquarters.
   Saves in maintenance costs.

WHY WINFRAME?

Today, more than ever, I/S professionals are pursuing cost-effective and
efficient solutions to enterprise-wide application deployment. Deploying
business-critical Windows-based application?s across the enterprise is a
monumental task for today?s I/S professionals. They?re faced with huge
obstacles including manageability requirements, multiple desktop computing
platforms, clogged networks on heavily trafficked LAN?s, inadequate
application performance for remote users, and poor security. And, if that?s
not enough, they?re expected to solve these problems faster, with fewer
people and a smaller budget!

RYNO:

RYNO is an award winning Bay Area VAR with top level expertise in both
networking and software development. We serve healthcare institutions from
building the network to developing the GroupWare applications that make a
network function efficiently as a whole.

RYNO?s mission is to provide our customers with increased profitability and
efficiency by providing superior technology solutions. RYNO in partnership
with Citrix Solutions is offering you a free seminar introducing WinFrame,
a new paradigm in information management systems!

DIRECTIONS TO WALNUT CREEK MARRIOTT:

DRIVING FROM SAN FRANCISCO: I-101 North - follow signs to Bay Bridge (right
lanes) to I-580 East.  One mile to Highway 24 Concord/Walnut Creek. Highway
24 East to I-680 North.  Continue I-680 North to North Main Street exit.
Turn left on North Main Street and right on Parkside Drive.  Hotel is
located on the corner of Parkside Drive and North Main Street.

DRIVING FROM OAKLAND: Follow signs to I-880 Freeway North (towards
Oakland). Take I-880 to I-980 - Walnut Creek.  This turns into Highway 24.
Drive East on Highway 24 (use left lanes) to I-680 Interchange.Drive North
to I-680 for 1.5 miles to North Main Street Exit. Turn left on North Main
Street and right on parkside Drive. Hotel is located on the corner of
Parkside Drive and North Main Street.

DRIVING FROM SACRAMENTO:  Follow the signs to I-680 South Concord and
Walnut Creek. Cross the Benicia Bridge and proceed to Walnut Creek, exiting
on North Main Street.  (Approx. 5 miles). Stay in the right lane and turn
right after
exiting North main. The hotel is one block East on the right side of the
street.

DRIVING FROM SAN JOSE:  Follow the signs to I-680. As you approach Walnut
Creek, stay to the right and exit at North Main Street. Turn left on North
Main Street and right on Parkside Drive.  Hotel is located on the corner of
Parkside Drive and North Main Street.


















///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
This Message was Composed using Extractor Pro Bulk E- Mail Software. If 
you wish to be removed from this advertiser's future mailings, please reply 
with the subject "Remove" and this software will automatically block you 
from their future mailings.
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 05:21:56 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: GOOD NEWS ABOUT BAD ACCOUNTS
Message-ID: <1998Feb11.072343.S2501.23202   >
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


For the last fourteen years, National Credit Systems, Inc. has been providing top flight debt collection services to over 9,000 businesses, institutions, and healthcare providers.

We charge only a low-flat fee (less than $20) per account, and all proceeds are forwarded to you directly -- not to your collections agency.

If you wish, we will report unpaid accounts to Experian (formerly TRW), TRANSUNION, and Equifax. There is no charge for this important service.

PLEASE LET US KNOW IF WE CAN BE OF SERVICE TO YOU.

Simply reply with the following instructions in the "Subject" field:

REMOVE  --  Please remove me from your mailing list.
EMAIL   --  Please email more information.
FAX     --  Please fax more information.
MAIL    --  Please snailmail more information.
CALL    --  Please have a representative call.

Indicate the best time to telephone and any necessary addresses and telephone/fax numbers in the text of your reply.

If you prefer you can always telephone us during normal business hours at (212) 213-3000 Ext 1467.

Thank you.



P.S. -- If you are not in need of our services at this time, please retain this message for future use or past it on to a friend. Thank you.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: eureka@eureka.abc-web.com
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 01:41:39 -0800 (PST)
To: All Eureka! Subscribers: ;
Subject: Eureka! Wed Feb 11 '98
Message-ID: <19980211081945.29762.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Welcome to Wednesday's issue of Eureka!

HE GIRLS!
This site calls itself  "The original She-Male, slut wonder-
land",  and it's hard not to agree.  With multiple live she-
male slut video feeds. Huge numbers of amazing shemale pics,
extra  hot stories  and so much more,  you'll just love this
site. And what's more, we have arranged a special free trial
membership for all Eureka! subscribers.  So go check it out!
HeGirls ... http://207.33.10.198/cgi-bin/gate1/pbm/he_0024/0

COLLEGE NUDES GET NASTY
http://www.collegenudes.com/eureka.htm
BRAND NEW SITE!!!  Just opened.  The hottest AMATEUR TEENS
getting nasty.  Pics In All Categories, and tons of Porno
material.  Cum Back to School for The Hottest sex on the
Web.

LESBIANS
Free hot pix!  Wet pink pussy, models and young ones. Simple
interface, just text links to jpeg images.  Check out number
seven, she has a star trek style shaved pussy. It's a quickie!
Lesbians ........ http://207.30.50.221/lesbians/lesbian.html

SIR CUM A LOT
Not a bad website.  Stop on by and see the samples for this
paysite.  They are all quick and easy thumbnails.  Featuring
panty, pussy, teen, asian, big tits, blowjob and a lot more! 
Sir Cum A Lot .......... http://www.sircumalot.com/main.html

PAGINA DO ROSERA
We had to go around the world to find this one!  Easy text
links to huge super high resolution images of pussy and dick.
Double dicks in one mouth, and a wild shot of a large glass
electrical insulator up some womans vagina! You must see it!
pagina Do Rosera ........... http://www.gold.com.br/~rosera/

MICHELLE
Now I know why the Beatles sang about Michelle. This one very
sweet hot young amateur teen.  She is images of herself in
various states of dress including a cheerleading outfit, up
her skirt shots and a great bedroom image with some nipple
action showing.  Check this little lady out for certain!
Michelle .............. http://mhgnet.com/michelle/mich.html

READ THIS!! WIN $25,000 and a Fantasy Date - Click Here Now!
$25,000! ---> http://208.195.150.31/us/us_main.cgi/us_5267/A

HOORAY! THE ADULT SEARCH ENGINE
Now you can search for the sex sites you are looking for and
fast!  This new search engine is setting the standard others
will follow.  It offers pop-up search and detailed listings!
Hooray! -----------------> http://eureka.abc-web.com/hooray/

FREE STREAMING VIDEO
Please note that most of these feeds require a Netscape bro-
wser in order to successfully view them. Unfortunately Micr-
osoft's browser does not have all the features of Netscape's
yet.  However, many of the feeds use the RealPlayer and will
work in most browsers.  If you do not have Netscape and want
a free copy click here --> http://www.netscape.com/download/
Pregnant ----------------------> http://207.168.184.26/preg/

CHAT WITH OTHER READERS
Hey,  if you haven't checked out the Eureka! Chat sites yet,
you're  missing out  on some  great stuff.  Every day you'll
find hundreds of other readers just like you looking to chat
have fun and maybe a little 'cyber'. We know you'll love it!
Adult/Sex Chat -----------------> http://137.39.63.229/chat/
General/Fun Chat -------> http://137.39.63.229/chat/funchat/

HOT LIVE PHONE SEX TO MAKE YOU CUM!
LD Call only! - Live Hot Girls!!!!----------->1-664-410-3912
LIVE: 1-on-1, 2-on-1, Group, Dateline-------->1-800-644-8779
FREE: Live 1-on-1 (international call only)--->011-678-77416

NEW! CENTERFOLD PIC OF THE DAY
Exclusive!  We proudly present  unpublished Pictures of your
favorite Centerfolds.  Featured This Week: Dec 80-PMOY Terri
Welles, Dec 89-Petra Verkaik, Sept 93-Carrie Westcott, Kerri
Kendall,  Rebecca Ferratti,  Lydia Schone and many more too!
---------------------------> http://www.gatefold.com/eureka/

AMATEUR SITE OF THE DAY
Wendy: "A fine ass blonde co-ed  with perky tits" is how one
person describes this  beautiful  babe.  Her hobbies include
writing and drawing, this  talented  woman  is the girl next
door. She loves computers and  sex  (imagine that!) so visit
her and see if she will interface with your HARD drive.
---------------------------> http://amateurindex.com/eureka/

EROTIC STORY SITE OF THE DAY
TeenStories.com: Dozens of  steamy  sex  stories  about teen
sexual experiences! This site is as  hot as they come! Visit
TeenStories.com today! ......... http://www.teenstories.com/

DAILY CARTOON ----------> http://www.erosinorbit.com/eureka/

ADULT STAR PIC OF THE DAY
Woah,  our Adult Star pics are getting hotter and hotter, so
make sure you stop by and check out today's - definitely not
to be missed! --------> http://www.xxxadultstars.com/eureka/

OTHER EUREKAS!
GAY EUREKA! ----------> http://eureka.abc-web.com/gayeureka/
DEUTSCH ------> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/deutsch.htm
ESPAŃOL ------> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/espanol.htm
FRANÇAIS ----> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/francais.htm
ITALIANO ----> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/italiano.htm
PORTUGUESE > http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/portuguese.htm

TODAY'S FREE PIX
Pic  1 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?110
Pic  2 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?111
Pic  3 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?112
Pic  4 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?113
Pic  5 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?114
Pic  6 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?115
Pic  7 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?116
Pic  8 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?117
Pic  9 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?118
Pic 10 --------------------------> http://137.39.63.229/?119

============================================================
TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS NEWSLETTER,  USE THE REPLY FUNCTION
IN YOUR EMAIL PROGRAM, AND SEND THIS EMAIL RIGHT BACK TO US.
============================================================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: spencer@datamerge.com (Spencer Kluesner)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 08:56:50 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: PRESS RELEASE: VENTURE CAPITAL CD
Message-ID: <19980211155548197.AIY417@datamerge.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


_______________________________________________________________
HIGH TECH FINANCING

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: 


DATAMERGE ANNOUNCES VENTURETRACK 2000 CD-ROM INFOBASE 

VENTURE CAPITAL INSIDERS "TELL ALL" DATABASE

Press Contact:
Peter  Masi
(303) 399-6031                      
MasiPR@aol.com
http://www.datamerge.com/venturetrack.html

DENVER  --  DataMerge, Inc., a Denver-based developer of software and
information for companies seeking financing, today announced the release
of VentureTrack 2000, a software package containing extensive profiles
and proprietary "insider" information on hundreds of venture capital
firms throughout North America.

The VentureTrack 2000 CD-ROM Infobase gives entrepreneurs and small
business owners "insider" information, education and advice critical to 
establishing business relationships with specific venture capitalists
and securing financing from them.  The software lets users find the
firms that optimally fit their needs by identifying links between their
company and the interests of the venture capitalists.

VentureTrack 2000's "Inside Track" section then instructs users on
custom tailoring their business plan and presentation to each venture
capital firm.  Specific questions, concerns and objections that a given
firm will likely raise and good responses for each are also provided to
VentureTrack 2000 users.  

Information contained in the profiles was gathered by finance savvy
investigative reporters who used techniques adapted from the
intelligence community.   The information is exclusive to VentureTrack
2000 and is not available in competing products.  It includes:

*Insight into the firm's most likely areas of interest;

*Personal/individual preferences of principals;

*Best methods of approach and specific things to say or not say to a
particular individual;

*Investment philosophies and strategies based on past experiences;

*Firm background, working atmosphere and relationships;

*Case studies of investments that best represent their investment
philosophy;

*Inside advice/scoop from companies each VC firm has previously
financed;

*Information from DataMerge's customer "grapevine"; 

*Key contacts by project type and procedure for internal review;

*Portfolio investment overview.
 
In addition to the eight- to 12-page profiles of each venture capital
firm, VentureTrack 2000 includes an on-line tutor and venture industry
knowledgebase called VentureAdvisor, which was developed with extensive 
input from venture capital principals.  The total package is designed to
give users proprietary "insider" information and insight into the
venture capital industry, which historically were closely guarded 
secrets of a few well-placed individuals.

In addition to small business people, DataMerge CEO Spencer Kluesner
says venture capital firms themselves have shown strong interest in 
VentureTrack 2000 because they want to gather competitive intelligence
on their rivals. 

VentureTrack 2000 supports Windows 95 and Windows NT.  The time-limited
introductory price is $495.  VentureTrack 2000 can be ordered by calling
(800) 580-1188.   

Privately-held DataMerge was founded in 1989 by Spencer Kluesner, a
former securities advisor who today serves as chief executive officer of
the 26-person company.  DataMerge's products are sold directly to
customers in the North America, Western Europe and Asia.  Additional
information can be obtained at DataMerge's website:  
http://www.datamerge.com/venturetrack.html

Additional  Information:

VentureTrack 2000 White Paper -  
http://www.datamerge.com/venture/capital/whitepaper.html
Sample VentureTrack Profile -  
http://www.datamerge.com/venture/page5.html
VentureTrack Brochure - http://www.datamerge.com/venture/page2.html


--30--





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 11:33:46 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Anti-Asian E-Mail Was Hate Crime, Jury Finds
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980211113458.007b6350@otc.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain












http://www.latimes.com/HOME/NEWS/ORANGE/OCNEWS/t000013848.html
                                      


                                       Wednesday, February 11, 1998 

            Anti-Asian E-Mail Was Hate Crime, Jury Finds 
              Internet: Ex-UCI student Richard Machado is found to have
violated civil
            rights with threatening messages. 
            By DAVAN MAHARAJ, Times Staff Writer
             
                      SANTA ANA--In the nation's first successful
prosecution of
                      a hate crime on the Internet, an expelled university
student
                  was found guilty Tuesday of violating the civil rights of
Asian
                  students at UC Irvine by sending e-mail threats to kill
them if they
                  didn't leave the school. 
                       Prosecutors hailed the verdict in the retrial of
20-year-old
                  Richard J. Machado as a victory for federal authorities
seeking to
                  police the Internet to deter hatemongers and racist groups. 
                       "This verdict shows that high-tech hate is not going
to be
                  tolerated," said Assistant U.S. Atty. Michael J. Gennaco,
who
                  prosecuted the case. "A line does have to be drawn in the
world of
                  cyberspace. If you cross that line and threaten people,
you are
                  going to be subject to criminal penalties." 
                       The jury of eight women and four men deliberated for
less than a
                  day before finding Machado guilty of interfering with
students' rights
                  to attend a public university. Jurors deadlocked 9 to 3
in favor of
                  conviction on a second, identical count. 
                       Machado displayed no emotion when the verdict was read
                  Tuesday afternoon. His first trial ended in a mistrial in
November
                  with jurors deadlocked 9 to 3 in favor of acquittal. 
                       Because his conviction carries a maximum sentence of
one year
                  in prison and he has already served more time than that
in custody,
                  Machado could be set free as early as Friday, when he
appears for
                  sentencing before U.S. District Judge Alicemarie H.
Stotler. 
                       Gennaco, who heads the civil rights division of the
U.S.
                  attorney's office in Los Angeles, downplayed Machado's
sentence. 
                       "What we've taken from this case is a deterrent
value that
                  people can't get on the Internet and send threats to
folks," Gennaco
                  said. 
                       Gennaco hinted that prosecutors would now be more
likely to
                  step in and prosecute computer users who stalk or
threaten others
                  in cyberspace. 
                       "We have a number of ongoing investigations regarding
                  allegations of threats on the Internet," Gennaco said.
"Now we have
                  some guidance from 12 people that the government can step
in and
                  enforce laws on the Internet." 
                       Machado's trial--and retrial--had been seen as a
test case. 
                       To prosecute Machado, prosecutors turned to civil
rights laws
                  enacted in the 1960s that were designed to prevent
Southerners
                  from standing in the way of school desegregation. 
                       Machado violated students' civil rights, prosecutors
contended,
                  when he hunched over a computer in UCI's engineering
building on
                  Sept. 20, 1996, and sent an anonymous e-mail message to
about
                  60 mainly Asian students. 
                       The message, signed "Asian Hater," warned that all
Asians
                  should leave UC Irvine or the sender would "hunt all of
you down
                  and kill your stupid asses." 
                       "I personally will make it my [life's work] to find
and kill every
                  one of you personally. OK? That's how determined I am. Do
you
                  hear me?" 
                       Apparently thinking the first one didn't get
transmitted, Machado
                  sent the same message twice, and school officials quickly
traced the
                  messages to him after they received complaints. 
                       The e-mail incensed and upset some students,
especially those
                  of Asian descent, who constitute nearly half of UC
Irvine's 17,000
                  students, the highest percentage of any UC school. 
                       Several students testified that they were petrified
by the e-mail.
                  They armed themselves with pepper spray, refused to go
out alone
                  at night and became suspicious of strangers. 
                       The defense called other students who testified that
they became
                  angry over the message but later shrugged it off as a bad
joke. 
                       During the trial, defense lawyers depicted Machado as a
                  disturbed teenager who became distraught and flunked out
of UCI
                  after his eldest brother was murdered in Los Angeles. 
                       When he sent the threatening e-mail, Machado was no
longer a
                  UCI student, but he was too ashamed to tell his immigrant
parents,
                  according to Deputy Federal Public Defender Sylvia
                  Torres-Guillen. 
                       Machado testified at both trials that one of his
brothers would
                  drive him to UCI each day even after he had been
expelled. There,
                  he passed his days in the computer laboratory, sending and
                  receiving e-mail and surfing the Internet until it was
time to go home.

                       On the day he sent the e-mail, Machado testified, he
was bored
                  and wanted to start a "dialogue" with people who were
signed on to
                  the school's computer network. 
                       Some attorneys, including Machado's defense team,
questioned
                  whether charges should have been filed against the former
student. 
                       Torres-Guillen even called an expert witness in
Internet
                  etiquette, who described Machado's e-mail as "a classic
                  flame"--online lingo for an angry message that, while
annoying, is
                  not meant to be harmful. 
                       But Gennaco contended that Machado hated Asians because
                  they got better grades than he did. 
                       In his rebuttal case, the prosecutor called a
University of South
                  Carolina freshman and another computer user in Denver who
                  testified that Machado referred to Asians as "chinks"
when he
                  chatted with them in cyberspace. 
                       The witnesses contradicted Machado's testimony that
he never
                  used derogatory terms for Asians. 
                       Gennaco said prosecutors may suggest that Machado
attend a
                  racial awareness program as part of his sentence. 

                   Search the archives of the Los Angeles Times for similar
stories. You will
                  not be charged to look for stories, only to retrieve one. 

                  Copyright Los Angeles Times 
 PREV STORY

 NEXT STORY













------------------------------------------------------------
      David Honig                   Orbit Technology
     honig@otc.net                  Intaanetto Jigyoubu

		Lewinsky for President '2012




	















From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: jtsr-stock@jtsr-stock.com
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 04:02:48 -0800 (PST)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: HOT STOCK-Double Your Money By Easter!!
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mixmaster 
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 15:03:03 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Anti-Asian E-Mail
Message-ID: <199802112253.OAA05499@sirius.infonex.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


"Gennaco said prosecutors may suggest that Machado attend 
a racial awareness program as part of his sentence."

Political re-education, anyone?

Take names, take names, take names.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 14:55:35 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Transcript of Hillary Clinton's comments on Net-regulation
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 14:54:55 -0800 (PST)
From: Declan McCullagh 
To: politech@vorlon.mit.edu
Subject: Transcript of Mrs. Clinton's comments on Net-regulation

Here's what Hillary Clinton said this afternoon about regulation of the
Internet during an otherwise routine press conference in the Map Room
about the "Millenium Evenings." Tonight at 7 pm EST she and the president
will cybercast the first one from the east room of the White House. 

It's hardly surprising that our elected officials don't like the ability
of the Internet to provide everyone with a platform. Even Thomas Jefferson
kvetched about the excesses of the press of his day and in 1783 and 1788
endorsed laws that permitted government prosecutions of the press for
printing "false facts."

Though I somehow suspect that the first lady has recently been more
worried about media reporting facts that may turn out to be true...

-Declan

===

     Q I just wanted to ask you about something that Gregg said.
He's obviously an Internet enthusiast.  But when he talked about some
of the aspects of the system -- the fact that you could say something
and you can't take it back, how it's so available to everyone and
instantaneous, he's raised some issues that have been issues for us
in the last few weeks in our business.  And I wonder if you think
that this new media is necessarily an entirely good thing.  And also,
as somebody who has been through this crucible, in the next
millennium how would you like to see this new and ever more
interesting -- (laughter) -- handled of things like the issues like
the personal lives of public figures.

	MRS. CLINTON: Well, Kathy, I think that's one of these issues
that Dick was referring to, that we're going to have to really think
hard about.  And I think that every time technology makes an advance
-- when you move to the railroad, or you move to the cotton gin, or
you move to the automobile, or the airplane, and now certainly as you
move to the computer and increasing accessibility and instantaneous
information on the computer, we are all going to have to rethink how
we deal with this, because there are always competing values.
There's no free decision that I'm aware of anywhere in life, and
certainly with technology that's the case.

	As exciting as these new developments are -- and I think Gregg's
enthusiasm is shared broadly by Americans and people around the world
-- there are a number of serious issues without any kind of editing
function or gate-keeping function.  What does it mean to have the
right to defend your reputation, or to respond to what someone says?

	There used to be this old saying that the lie can be halfway
around the world before the truth gets its boots on.  Well, today,
the lie can be twice around the world before the truth gets out of
bed to find its boots.  I mean, it is just beyond imagination what
can be disseminated.  So I think we're going to have to really worry
about this, because it won't be just public elected officials.  We've
seen some cases where somebody who had a grudge against a girl's
mother because the family wouldn't let him date her put out on the
Internet that the family were child abusers.  Totally private people,
never stuck their toe in public life.  It can be done to anybody, and
it can get an audience, and it can create a falsehood about somebody.
And certainly it's multiplied many times over if you happen to be in
public life.

	I don't have any clue about what we're going to do legally,
regulatorily, technologically -- I don't have a clue.  But I do think
we always have to keep competing interests in balance.  I'm a big
pro-balance person.  That's why I love the founders -- checks and
balances; accountable power.  Anytime an individual or an institution
or an invention leaps so far out ahead of that balance and throws a
system, whatever it might be -- political, economic, technological --
out of balance, you've got a problem, because then it can lead to the
oppression people's rights, it can lead to the manipulation of
information, it can lead to all kinds of bad outcomes which we have
seen historically.  So we're going to have to deal with that.  And I
hope a lot of smart people are going to --

	Q Sounds like you favor regulation.

	MRS. CLINTON: Bill, I don't know what -- that's why I said I
don't know what I'm in favor of.  And I don't know enough to know
what to be in favor of, because I think it's one of those new issues
we've got to address.  We've got to see whether our existing laws
protect people's right of privacy, protect them against defamation.
And if they can, how do you do that when you can press a button and
you can't take it back.  So I think we have to tread carefully.

	Q -- one of the balances, though, in this new digital age is
that you can have direct communication.  You're celebrating that
tonight -- people can log on from anywhere.  In that spirit, have you
thought any more about a direct and frank conversation by the
President with the country about these allegations?

	MRS. CLINTON: I'm not going to add anything to what the
President has already said.  And I think that any of you who think
hard about this issue would have to agree that he's taken the right
position.  So I'm not going to add to that.

===







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: sunder 
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 15:22:33 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: [Fwd: SpookTech98]
Message-ID: <34E231DF.28169BB0@brainlink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



To: (Recipient list suppressed)
Subject: SpookTech98
From: SpyKing 
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 06:26:52 -0500
SpyKing, with a little help from his friends, 
is pleased to announce:

SpookTech98
The Methods of Eavesdropping & Surveillance Seminar II

Live from New York City
Friday, June 5, 1998

Location:

The Crown Plaza at the United Nations  
304 East 42nd Street, New York, NY 10017

Sponsered by the Codex Surveillance & Privacy News, A.L.M.I.E. Association of Legal, Medical & Investigative Experts and W.A.S.P. World Association of Surveillance Professionals. 

If you missed it last year... Don't make the same mistake twice...
You'll meet lots of great people and you'll learn a lot...
                         
In our "Methods of Eavesdropping & Surveillance" Seminar II
you'll learn how various surveillance devices work... and how to protect against them...

You will also learn how the spies among us access confidential information sources and learn everything there is to know about YOU... 


If you're serious about protecting your privacy... you can't afford to miss this seminar... enrollment is VERY limited... 

You will see ACTUAL Demonstrations... 
of the latest Surveillance equipment 
& Investigative techniques...

We will have some vendors this year displaying their wares...
If you are a vendor and would like to exhibit let us know...

You will learn how:

Offices/Homes are bugged
Phones are tapped
Cellular Calls are monitored
People/Vehicles are followed
Computers are eavesdropped on

You will also learn how to PROTECT yourself from these 
surveillance techniques...

We will also give a "live" demonstration of computer data interception...
something everyone who "surfs" the net needs to be aware of...

AND...

We will "crack" a PGP message, show the targets passphrase 
AND the content of the message...

If you're interested in privacy you shouldn't miss SpookTech98!
You do NOT have to be a victim...

You will receive a Wealth of Handout Material...

This is no nonsense information packed seminar 
taught by seasoned professionals 
with a lifetime of surveillance experience in the field... 

You will ALSO Learn How the Spies Among us Obtain:

Non-published telephone numbers
Addresses from Non published numbers
Utility Company information
Health insurance information
Records of Toll calls
Cable company information
Bank Accounts & balances
Cellular Toll records
Pager/Beeper user information

and as an added bonus...

ALL attendees will receive a FREE micro video pinhole camera
and we'll show you HOW to use it to PROTECT your person and/or  assets...

If you're serious about protecting your privacy... you can't afford to miss this seminar... enrollment is VERY limited... 

Seminar Date: Friday, June 5, 1998 Hours: 9:00 AM to 6PM

Location: The Crown Plaza at the United Nations  
304 East 42nd Street, New York, NY 10017


Cost: Advanced Registration SLF & W.A.S.P. Members            $295.00

Non-Members                                             $350.00

Day of Seminar Registration at the Door                 $375.00
(Cash or Money Order Only)


We have created a SpookTech98 powerpoint presentation 
for information purposes 
if anyone would like...
just hit reply and request SpookTech98.ppt

Refreshments will be served ALL day during the seminar including a FREE buffet lunch and SpyKing will host a FREE party for 
all attendees afterwards SOMEWHERE IN NEW YORK CITY...

and I'll pick up the tab again ;-)

Please printout this form and send with reservation. Your reservation will be confirmed to guarantee your seat. Seating is LIMITED.

************************************************************************
 Registration Form

SpookTech98 

************************************************************************

Name:      

Company:

Street Address:

City:

State:

Postal Code:

Country:

E-Mail:

Tel:

Fax:

Amount Enclosed:

***************************************************************************
***************************************************************************

The information supplied in this registration form is STRICTLY confidential
and will NOT be supplied to anyone. 
It is strictly for inhouse registration confirmation.

****************************************************************************
****************************************************************************

Send Registration Form & Payment to:

Codex Publishing
2472 Broadway, Suite 328
New York, New York 10025 USA
917-277-1983

****************************************************************************
****************************************************************************











*************************************************************************
The Codex Surveillance & Privacy News - http://www.thecodex.com
Moderator of "The Surveillance List"... http://www.thecodex.com/list.html
The FIRST & ONLY list dedicated to Surveillance & Investigative Technology...
"We don't spy on you... but we DO keep an eye on those that do..."
************************************************************************* 


From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 16:16:29 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: UK Crypto Ban?
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980212001956.00b27e4c@pop.pipeline.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


From: Campaign Against Censorship of the Internet 
To: ukcrypto@maillist.ox.ac.uk
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 18:18:28 +0100
Subject:  Key escrow announcement


A source who is a lobbyist in a non-computer sector has just called me
to say that Margaret Beckett will be announcing a (compulsory?) key
escrow program next Tuesday.

So far I don't have independent confirmation, although Nigel Hickson
recently said here that he was expecting an announcement "soon".

Here's hoping we can get it out before the gvt machine controls the
spin.

Regards,

Malcolm Hutty.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Campaign Against Censorship                    Tel: 0171 589 4500
of the Internet in Britain                     Fax: 0171 589 4522
                                     e-mail: cacib@liberty.org.uk
Say NO to Censorship         Web: http://www.liberty.org.uk/cacib

----------

Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 23:57:32 +0000
To: ukcrypto@maillist.ox.ac.uk
From: T Bruce Tober 
Subject: More rumours?

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----


Free Life Commentary                    
Editor:  Sean Gabb
Issue Number Ten
Tuesday 10th February 1998, 11:20pm

==========================
"Over himself, over his own mind and body, 
the individual is sovereign"
(J.S. Mill, On Liberty, 1859)
==========================

           Next Week's British Encryption Ban
                      by Sean Gabb

Earlier this evening, I was given confidential information by someone
close to a British Cabinet Minister.  I am not in the habit of speaking
to such people, let alone having them leak state secrets to me.  But
that is what happened.  In publishing what I heard, I am now risking a
prosecution under the Official Secrets Acts - or, more likely, being
made to look ridiculous if what I predict does not happen.  These risks
being accepted, here is the leak.

Next Tuesday, the 17th February 1998, the Department of Trade and
Industry will announce plans to outlaw the use of strong encryption
software within the United Kingdom.  We are to be encouraged - and
ultimately forced - to encrypt our e-mail only in ways that will allow
the authorities to read it.

My source was vague about the details of the scheme, saying that they
had not yet been circulated to the full Cabinet.  But I imagine that it
will be more or less a reprint of the Conservative Government's public
consultation paper of March 1997.  This came to nothing because of the
change of Government, and it was even hoped that Labour would have a
more liberal policy on Internet regulation.  However, Margaret Beckett,
the Minister now responsible for trade and industrial policy, is neither
bright nor forceful; and she was early captured by the officials who in
theory are supposed to do her bidding.  If next Tuesday's consultation
paper differs at all from the last one, it will be only in matters of
small detail and presentation.  For this reason, it is probably safe to
take the last paper as a guide to what we can expect.

The Government will propose creating a network of what are called
Trusted Third Parties, or TTPs.  These are to be organisations licensed
to provide encryption services to the public - that is, software,
consultancy and other support.  Because they have been licensed by the
State, we are to be encouraged to believe that they really are
trustworthy - that they are not distributing bad encryption software, or
robbing their clients in other ways.  But just in case we decide not to
believe any of this, it will be made illegal for any unlicensed person
to offer encryption services.  Here, it is worth quoting from last
year's consultation paper:

    The legislation will prohibit an organisation from offering or
providing encryption services to the UK public without a licence.
Prohibition will be irrespective of whether a charge is made for such
services.  The offering of encryption services to the UK public (for
example via the Internet) by an unlicensed TTP outside of the UK will
also be prohibited.  For this purpose, it may be necessary to place
restrictions on the advertising and marketing of such services to the
public.

Enacted into law, this would make it illegal for me to copy encryption
software from my hard disk for a friend, and for computer magazines to
include it on their free cover disks.  It would also allow a strict
supervision of the material and the links given access to by British
sites on the World Wide Web.

The paper never clarifies why we need TTPs in the first place, or why -
their need granted - they can only be trusted if licensed by the State.
But it does say a lot about law enforcement and national security.  Or,
to be more accurate, it does say a lot in the usual code about the need
to fill in any last potholes on the road to a British police state.

Starting with the Interception of Communications Act 1985, the British
State has given itself powers of surveillance that a Third World
dictator might envy.  It can tap our phones on the word of a Minister.
It can burgle our homes and leave recording devices behind on the word
of a senior policeman.  It can trawl through and inspect any records on
us held by any organisation.  It can do all this without our knowledge,
and without any effective system of appeal and redress.  The relevant
laws are careful to describe the permissions for this as "warrants".
But they really are no more than what in France before the Revolution
were called Lettres du Cachet - things that our ancestors boasted did
not and could not exist in the freer air of England.

The spread of personal computers seemed likely at first to extend the
scope of surveillance still further.  This had until then been limited
by cost.  For all the theoretical risks, sending letters in sealed
envelopes through the post has always been reasonably secure:  the costs
of interception can only be justified in exceptional cases.  For the
same reason, most private papers are safe.  But the routing of an
increasing amount of mail through the Internet promised to bring down
the costs of surveillance to the point where everyone could be watched.
The storage of records on computers connected to the Internet promised
to make it possible for the authorities to spy on people by remote
control.

The problem is the development of strong encryption software like pgp,
and its growing popularity among millions of ordinary people who, though
not criminals, have a strong regard for privacy.  It allows us to keep
our e-mail and private records secret to all but the most determined and
expensive attacks.  It gives to us the benefits of instant communication
and mass data storage, but keeps the authorities - despite their new
powers of surveillance - no better informed than in the old days of due
process and envelope steaming.

Therefore all the talk of Trusted Third Parties.  The terms of their
licences will require them to sell encryption software with keys that
cannot be modified by their clients, and to collect and store copies of
these keys for handing over to the authorities.  Last year's document is
full of promises about "strict safeguards" and the like.  But the
reality is this:

    The legislation will provide that the Secretary of State may issue a
warrant requiring a TTP to disclose private encryption keys... or a body
covered by that warrant.

No mention of judicial involvement at the time, or judicial review
afterwards - just more police state commands.

We can ignore anything the Government parrots next week about law
enforcement and national security - or, for that matter, child
pornography and complex fraud.  These really are just code words.  If I
were a criminal, or a terrorist, or a foreign spy, the last encryption
software I would use would come from a Trusted Third Party.  Strong
encryption packages are available all over the Internet, or can pass
from hand to hand on a single floppy disk.  Nor would I worry much about
laws against the transmission of data encrypted with unlicensed
software.  There are ways of keeping the authorities from even knowing
that an Internet message contains encrypted data.

Somewhere, I have an early version of a program called Steganography,
created by Romana Machado.  This takes an encrypted text and merges it
into a graphics file.  My version produces a visible degradation of
picture quality.  Almost certainly, the newer releases have solved this
problem.  Assuming I had them, and were sufficiently unpatriotic -
neither applies in my case, let me add - I could e-mail this country's
battle plans straight off to Saddam Hussain merged invisibly into a
picture of my dog.  GCHQ would never notice until the Scud missiles
began landing on Cheltenham.

No - the encryption ban will be aimed at us, the honest public.  We are
the people who tend to respect the law - or at least to be afraid of it
enough to comply in most cases.  It is our privacy that is to be
stripped away.  It is we who are to become like Winston Smith, living
for every moment when the telescreens are not monitoring our facial
expressions.

Why this is desired I cannot say.  But we are living though an age of
withering trust in the common people.  In this country, we are not
trusted to possess guns for our self-defence - or indeed to carry carpet
knives locked inside our cars.  We are not trusted to choose and
administer our own medicines, or to bring up our own children in the
manner of our choice, or to decide whether or not oxtail soup might be
bad for us.  Plugging in the telescreens is only a logical next step.

Normally, when I write on these issues, I work myself into a frenzy of
pessimism.  At the moment, though, I feel rather optimistic.  Next
Tuesday's proposals will cause an uproar.  This will not come from the
so-called civil liberties groups like Liberty - excepting a few small
bodies like the Libertarian Alliance, they have all been taken over by
New Labour apparatchiks who can be trusted to keep their mouths shut.
It will come from the big business interests.

British Telecom is the third or fourth largest telecommunications
company in the world.  If operates in more than 40 markets, often
needing to provide its clients with very secure networks.  In the City
of London there are more representative offices of foreign banks than in
the rest of the European Union combined.  These have a taste for
confidentiality.  There are many other large interests - all paying
billions in taxes, all likely to be very hostile to any scheme that will
make them appear less useful to foreign clients.  We have a Labour
Government that still needs to establish itself in the public mind as a
party friendly to business.  These facts can surely be trusted to ensure
the dropping of a scheme that would not merely turn the country into a
full police state, but also do the greatest damage to British business
since nationalisation.

Or so I hope.
==========================
Free Life Commentary is an independent journal of comment, published on
the Internet.  To receive regular issues, send 
e-mail to Sean Gabb at old.whig@virgin.net

Issues are archived at

        

Contact Address:                        25 Chapter Chambers, 
                                        Esterbrooke Street, 
                                        London, SW1P 4NN; 
                                        Telephone:  0181 858 0841

If you like Free Life Commentary, you may also care to subscribe to my
longer, hard copy journal, Free Life, subscription details for which can
be obtained by writing to me at the above address.

==========================
Legal Notice:  Though using the name Free Life, this journal is owned by
me and not by the Libertarian Alliance, which in consequence bears no
liability of whatever kind for the contents.
- -- 
Sean Gabb                               | "Over himself, over his own  |
E-mail:  old.whig@virgin.net            | mind and body, the individual| 
 | is sovereign"                |
Mobile Number: 0956 472199              | J.S. Mill, On Liberty, 1859  |

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tbt -- 
-- 
|Bruce Tober, octobersdad@reporters.net, Birmingham, England +44-121-242-3832|
|       Freelance PhotoJournalist - IT, Business, The Arts and lots more     |
|pgp key ID 0x94F48255. Website - http://www.homeusers.prestel.co.uk/crecon/ |





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mark Hedges 
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 20:05:19 -0800 (PST)
To: Information Security 
Subject: Re: www.lanl.gov
In-Reply-To: <199802120233.VAA17969@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I hope you'll endure a product endorsement.. use Anonymizer Surfing
when trolling for "sensitive" information on web sites you don't trust.
Stops Java, Javascript, and cookies, hides your IP address, etc.

Free trial available with delay; $5 per month in quarters eliminates
the free trial delay. Yes, it's still sometimes slower, because the
traffic travels further, but now it's sitting on a pretty reliable
ATM network with decent connectivity.

Mark Hedges
Anonymizer, Inc.


>Two minutes after that, my computer dialed up my ISP and
>connected to the Net again: it was the LANL page.
>
>I hit 'STOP', and the connection timed out again, and that was that.
>
>I hate the way there isn't some choice about allowing (JAVA?)
>to NOT do that unless expressly allowed.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 20:38:32 -0800 (PST)
To: Mark Hedges 
Subject: Specious use of specie?
In-Reply-To: <199802120233.VAA17969@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 8:05 PM -0800 2/11/98, Mark Hedges wrote:

>Free trial available with delay; $5 per month in quarters eliminates

Hey, the _postage_ on mailing 20 quarters every month will get to be a
headache.

Can't you accept dollar bills? Or a check?

--Tim May


Voluntary Mandatory Self-Rating of this Article
(U.S. Statute 43-666-970719).
Warning: Failure to Correctly and Completely Label any Article or Utterance
is a Felony under the "Children's Internet Safety Act of 1997," punishable
by 6 months for the first offense, two years for each additional offense,
and a $100,000 fine per offense. Reminder: The PICS/RSACi label must itself
not contain material in violation of the Act.

** PICS/RSACi Voluntary Self-Rating (Text Form) ** :

Suitable for Children: yes  Age Rating: 5 years and up.
Suitable for Christians: No Suitable for Moslems: No  Hindus: Yes
Pacifists: No  Government Officials: No  Nihilists: Yes  Anarchists: Yes
Vegetarians: Yes  Vegans: No  Homosexuals: No  Atheists: Yes
Caucasoids: Yes  Negroids: No  Mongoloids: Yes
Bipolar Disorder: No  MPD: Yes and No  Attention Deficit Disorder:Huh?

--Contains discussions of sexuality, rebellion, anarchy, chaos,torture,
regicide, presicide, suicide, aptical foddering.
--Contains references hurtful to persons of poundage and people of
color.Sensitive persons are advised to skip this article.

**SUMMARY**
Estimated number of readers qualified to read this: 1
Composite Age Rating: 45 years






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 20:44:39 -0800 (PST)
To: Information Security 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 6:33 PM -0800 2/11/98, Information Security wrote:

>I pulled up www.lanl.gov (for whatever reason), flipped back to
>my ISP shell account, did some stuff, logged out.
>
>Five minutes later, my PPP connection timed out, and so
>the line dropped.
>
>Two minutes after that, my computer dialed up my ISP and
>connected to the Net again: it was the LANL page.
>
>I hit 'STOP', and the connection timed out again, and that was that.
>
>I hate the way there isn't some choice about allowing (JAVA?)
>to NOT do that unless expressly allowed.
>
>I wonder what LANL loaded into my system that needed Net connectivity
>after seven minutes???

Perhaps LANL felt it needed to analyze what was on your computer? To see if
you were an Iraqi or Albanian or Quebecois spy attempting to learn atomic
secrets?

(LANL for those of you mysitified by this is Los Alamos National
Laboratory, of course. A beautiful place, high in the Jemez mountains of
New Mexico. As nuclear weapons work has been declinining, they've been
casting about for a new mission to justify government pork being sent their
way. One of their new interests is in hacking, intrusion, and "open
sources.")

--Tim May

Just Say No to "Big Brother Inside"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^3,021,377   | black markets, collapse of governments.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 18:27:29 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Me & Louis Freeh
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Declan McCullagh  writes:

> Just got mail --
>
> >Have some friends in the FBI and I just thought that you would like to
> >know that Louis Freeh personally considers you, and I quote, and
> >"radical".  Amazing, isn't it?
> >
> >Just thought you would like to know what the great Louis Freeh thinks of
> >you...
>
> Somehow I get the impression that FBI directors don't like "radicals" much...

I don't like people who forge quotes from me in their netly news "exposes",
as Declan has done.

Center for Democracy in Technology doesn't like Declan either - they've even
complained to Declan's editors at Time Warner about his lies and fabrications.

What does it mean when the Vulis, CDT, and the FBI all agree?

P.S. Declan, are you an alcoholic?

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 18:33:43 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: www.lanl.gov
Message-ID: <199802120233.VAA17969@panix2.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Bleep!

I pulled up www.lanl.gov (for whatever reason), flipped back to
my ISP shell account, did some stuff, logged out.

Five minutes later, my PPP connection timed out, and so
the line dropped.

Two minutes after that, my computer dialed up my ISP and
connected to the Net again: it was the LANL page.

I hit 'STOP', and the connection timed out again, and that was that.

I hate the way there isn't some choice about allowing (JAVA?)
to NOT do that unless expressly allowed.

I wonder what LANL loaded into my system that needed Net connectivity
after seven minutes???

---guy

   Vulgersauris is a shadow of his former self.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 18:56:48 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Me & Louis Freeh
Message-ID: <199802120256.VAA19033@panix2.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


   >   To: cypherpunks@toad.com
   >   Subject: Re: Me & Louis Freeh
   >   From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)

   >   I don't like people who forge quotes from me in their netly news "exposes",
   >   as Declan has done.

Huh?

   >   What does it mean when the Vulis, CDT, and the FBI all agree?

Didn't happen.

   >   Declan, are you an alcoholic?

No, he's a free radical.
---guy

   h'yuk h'yuk h'yuk




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 20:56:18 -0800 (PST)
To: guy@panix.com (Information Security)
Subject: Re: www.lanl.gov
In-Reply-To: <199802120412.XAA24363@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <199802120453.WAA30761@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text


Information Security wrote:
>    >   From hedges@infonex.com Wed Feb 11 23:05:14 1998
>    >   I hope you'll endure a product endorsement.. use Anonymizer Surfing
>    >   when trolling for "sensitive" information on web sites you don't trust.
>    >   Stops Java, Javascript, and cookies, hides your IP address, etc.
> 
> I don't trust any sites.
> 

Try using crowds.

	- Igor.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 20:08:27 -0800 (PST)
To: Information Security 
Subject: Re: Me & Louis Freeh
In-Reply-To: <199802120256.VAA19033@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Geez, I was wondering why I hadn't heard anything from Vulis in so long.
Forgot I killfiled him half a year ago.

Now I remember why.

-Declan

At 21:56 -0500 2/11/98, Information Security wrote:
>   >   To: cypherpunks@toad.com
>   >   Subject: Re: Me & Louis Freeh
>   >   From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
>
>   >   I don't like people who forge quotes from me in their netly news
>"exposes",
>   >   as Declan has done.
>
>Huh?
>
>   >   What does it mean when the Vulis, CDT, and the FBI all agree?
>
>Didn't happen.
>
>   >   Declan, are you an alcoholic?
>
>No, he's a free radical.
>---guy
>
>   h'yuk h'yuk h'yuk







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 20:12:38 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: www.lanl.gov
Message-ID: <199802120412.XAA24363@panix2.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


   >   From hedges@infonex.com Wed Feb 11 23:05:14 1998
   >   
   >   I hope you'll endure a product endorsement.. use Anonymizer Surfing
   >   when trolling for "sensitive" information on web sites you don't trust.
   >   Stops Java, Javascript, and cookies, hides your IP address, etc.

I don't trust any sites.

And, I hear the anonymizer blocks some highly useful sites like
DejaNews, which would have been a handy way to post anonymously.

And I can turn off Java and cookies.

What I really should do is take the time to
run Netscape under 'chroot'.
---guy




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 15:38:15 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: PGP 5.5 BS upgrade
Message-ID: <199802112338.AAA16726@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Has anyone got the upgrade/bugfix for PGP 5.5 Business Security?  I think it's
5.5.2 (?)  I'm looking for the Win platform upgrade if anyone can help. 
Perhaps someone could upload it to a c'punk FTP site or post the URL.

Thanks in advance!







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 57163566@compuserve.com
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 15:54:17 -0800 (PST)
To: urn@piegytt.com
Subject: You Also Have Rights!
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: tihu@wvz.net
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 18:37:15 -0800 (PST)
To: tihu@wvz.net
Subject: U.S. Income Tax Returns - $199 (Feb 28th deadline)
Message-ID: <19980210405OAA38218@post.fr>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain







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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: majordomo@bulkemailserver.com
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 07:26:39 -0800 (PST)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: Do you need a NEW IDENTITY?
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Do you need a NEW IDENTITY/NEW ID/CREDIT/PROTECTION/PRIVACY/WEALTH?

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CARD EXPIRTATION DATE), also send your email address just in case we need to contact you.

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(209) 952-8555 (if faxing a check, fill in all of the information, 
tape it on a piece of paper, do not put tape over the check.  
Print your name and email address just in case we need to 
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Also, with all orders, above and below state:  
"THIS IS NOT ENTRAPMENT OR A GOVERNMENT 
STING OPERATION, THIS INFORMATION WILL NOT BE USED AGAINST YOU. 
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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LIFE!  PEACE TO YOU!  






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mix 
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 05:05:32 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199802121246.EAA20478@sirius.infonex.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Timothy Mayhem will fuck anything that moves, 
but he'd rather be fucking his own mother's dead 
body.

              <<<<
             o(0-0)o
          -ooO-(_) Ooo-- Timothy Mayhem





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: attila 
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 21:11:08 -0800 (PST)
To: Declan McCullagh 
Subject: Re: Transcript of Hillary Clinton's comments on Net-regulation
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Declan McCullagh wrote:

> 
> 	I don't have any clue about what we're going to do legally,
> regulatorily, technologically -- I don't have a clue.  But I do think
> we always have to keep competing interests in balance.  I'm a big
> pro-balance person.  That's why I love the founders -- checks and
> balances; accountable power.  Anytime an individual or an institution
> or an invention leaps so far out ahead of that balance and throws a
> system, whatever it might be -- political, economic, technological --
> out of balance, you've got a problem, because then it can lead to the
> oppression people's rights, it can lead to the manipulation of
> information, it can lead to all kinds of bad outcomes which we have
> seen historically.  So we're going to have to deal with that.  And I
> hope a lot of smart people are going to --
>
    pro-balance? JAFR --just another form of regulation. the concept
    of free thought for anyone outside of the inner circle has never
    occurred to Hillary. does Chelsea view Hillary as her "mother" or
    as an automan who conceived her before her clocked ticked out?
    all the show of family is a sham for Hillary; Hillary is straight
    out of "Logan's Run" and automated child care --the global village
    concept of procreation, child rearing, and education in a protypical
    defined environment to the party line.

 
> 	Q Sounds like you favor regulation.
> 
    even Kathy picked up on that one!


> 	MRS. CLINTON: Bill, I don't know what -- that's why I said I
> don't know what I'm in favor of.  And I don't know enough to know
> what to be in favor of, because I think it's one of those new issues
> we've got to address.  We've got to see whether our existing laws
> protect people's right of privacy, protect them against defamation.
> And if they can, how do you do that when you can press a button and
> you can't take it back.  So I think we have to tread carefully.
> 
    if you print a newspaper, you can not retract the comment (but
    the distribution is less). the government will attack the 
    remailers on accountability, yet the courts have consistently
    ruled on the constitutionality of anonymous handbills. 

    why do they not come out and state what their real agenda is?
    the internet is not the controlled media (the gatekeepers of
    Hillary's later comments --in fact that is the most direct
    reference to government leaning on the press I have seen in
    print by a high ranking power behind the throne.

    the issue is that the internet strikes fear in the hearts of
    the scalawags, bounders, and highwaymen posing as our elected
    representatives to what was _our_ republic.

	attila out...    again







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Michael Sims" 
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 04:11:31 -0800 (PST)
To: Declan McCullagh 
Subject: Re: "Corporations selling your ass down the road for a dollar"
In-Reply-To: <199802101856.NAA04719@arutam.inch.com>
Message-ID: <199802121211.HAA19946@arutam.inch.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Declan wrote: [to cypherpunks for no apparent reason]

> >None of this is news to Declan of course.  I just get disappointed
> >when I see industry mouthpiece after industry mouthpiece without a
> >single goal in mind except maximum profit.  Libertarianism in
> >action - corporations sell your ass down the road for a dollar and
> >some stock options.
> 
> I'm sure Michael was upset and not typing clearly. He knows as well
> as anyone that libertarians are not pro-business; they're
> pro-individual rights.

Except, of course, that *businesses* count as individuals in a 
libertarian world.  Yes, the corporation, that creation wholly of 
government, becomes a sort of super-individual - and of course all 
individuals are equal, but some are just a bit more equal.

When I see a libertarian calling for an elimination of all forms of 
corporations and a return to sole proprietorships and straight 
partnerships as the only form of business, then I'll know he's 
ideologically consistent.  Until then, pro-business is the only 
reasonable way to describe the twisted rationale behind 
libertarianism.

Which brings me back to my original point - the AIM representation at 
the aforementioned hearings.  In Libber-land, there's nothing 
reprehensible there.  Corporations are lobbying for their "individual 
rights", one of them being the right to make maximum profit by 
eliminating/marginalizing competitors.  Of course the rights they are 
lobbying for may infringe on some others' rights, perhaps in schools 
or libraries which receive federal funds, but hey, that's life for 
you.  Every individual has an equal chance.  And after all, freedom 
to speak and receive information is just a preference - some people 
prefer to receive more of it than others.

> Libertarians spend quite a bit of time
> complaining about the Republican habit of funding corporate
> subsidies.

But very very little time complaining about the *existence* of 
corporations whose primary function is to shield the important folks 
who run and fund the corporation from the consequences of their 
actions.  Come on!  This should be a primary offense!  Individuals 
with no responsibility!


> The pursuit of profit in the free market is not to be discouraged --
> without it, we wouldn't have the Internet we have today.

Heavens, Declan, you're right!  All those companies selflessly 
creating a network between universities and defense sites, not 
seeking a return in five years but looking well into the future..... 
Let us praise the foresight of those companies.  What were their 
names again?


-- Michael Sims




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 05:23:52 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Me & Louis Freeh
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Declan McCullagh  writes:

> Geez, I was wondering why I hadn't heard anything from Vulis in so long.
> Forgot I killfiled him half a year ago.

Translation: Declan is eagerly reading everything I write, ready to
masturbate whenever I mention his name.

> >   >   I don't like people who forge quotes from me in their netly news
> >"exposes",
> >   >   as Declan has done.

Should I follow CDT's example and complain to Declan's bosses at Time Warner
about his lies, forgeries, and fabrications?

I find it amusing that Declan is acting as a judge of what constitutes
orthodox libertarianism.  Please recall that Declan was one of the few
people on this list who wholeheartedly supported Gilmore/Sandfart's
"moderation experiment" and editorialized in favor of Gilmore trying to
kick me off of this mailing list.  Note also that Timmy "cocksucker" May
and his new friend, the degenerate child molester Guy Polis, are again
flooding this mailing list with forged spam while calling for moderating it.

I'm also amused by Declan's refusal to answer my question (whether he is
an alcoholic).  Declan's role models in malicious journalism are scum like
the pathological liar Charlie Platt and the late Chris French.  Numerous
articles posted on sci.cryonics by Platt's former business partners in
his fraudulent "corpsicle" venture describe him as "perpetually drunk".
Chris French too used to start drinking early in the morning and was in
the state of drunken stupor by early afternoon.  I hope that my exposing
him to AP as a Declan-class liar and an incompetent forger contributed to
his drinking himself to death.

Where is Chris French buried?  I feel like pissing on his grave.

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 08:33:39 -0800 (PST)
To: "Michael Sims" 
Subject: Re: "Corporations selling your ass down the road for a dollar"
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980212083416.007c5a20@otc.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 07:10 AM 2/12/98 -0400, Michael Sims wrote:
>
>Except, of course, that *businesses* count as individuals in a 
>libertarian world.  

No, its that the owner of a business doesn't lose his rights
by virtue of running a business.


Yes, the corporation, that creation wholly of 
>government, becomes a sort of super-individual - and of course all 
>individuals are equal, but some are just a bit more equal.

No, the people running any size corp. have the same rights as
everyone else, to non-interference, etc.

>When I see a libertarian calling for an elimination of all forms of 
>corporations and a return to sole proprietorships and straight 
>partnerships as the only form of business, then I'll know he's 
>ideologically consistent.  

Actually, libs have nothing for or against corps. ---only govt
interfering with them.

I'm not sure where you got your ideas about liberty, or
what anti-corporate libs you hang out with, but your
model of libertarianism is off.

If the natural (efficient) size of a company is big, so be it.
As long as you don't defraud or use force, you have the right
to grow unimpeded by govt to any size that the market selects.
No interference, no subsidies, same thing.


------------------------------------------------------------
      David Honig                   Orbit Technology
     honig@otc.net                  Intaanetto Jigyoubu

		Lewinsky for President '2012




	















From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: eureka@eureka.abc-web.com
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 07:40:25 -0800 (PST)
To: All Eureka! Subscribers: ;
Subject: Eureka! Thu Feb 12 '98
Message-ID: <19980212083920.1744.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Welcome to Thursday's issue of Eureka!

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============================================================
TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS NEWSLETTER,  USE THE REPLY FUNCTION
IN YOUR EMAIL PROGRAM, AND SEND THIS EMAIL RIGHT BACK TO US.
============================================================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 05:46:49 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Dr. Dimento again
Message-ID: <199802121346.IAA14820@panix2.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


It's time for "ASK GUY ANYTHING"!

   >   From Doctor Net Twinkie  Thu Feb 12 08:23:31 1998
   >   To: cypherpunks@toad.com
   >   
   >   I am a pathetic old fart who is outwitted even by "retards" these days.
   >   
   >   What is wrong with me?
   >
   >   ---
   >    
   >   Dr. Doctor Net Twinkie KOTM
   >   Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

GUY RESPONDS:

Dear Twinkie,

The problem is you no longer have all that good white creamy stuff.

It's solidified...you are literally hard-headed now.

You can't even...

: Subject: Re: Changing to Moderated Cypherpunks -- How?
: From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
: Date: Thu, 05 Feb 98 19:25:52 EST
: 
: Guy Polis thinks that anyone smarter than him (and that's 99.99% of the
: population) is my tentacle.

...think of a new insult...

: Subject:      Re: Homosexual anti-Semite Peter Vorobieff is forging cancels for our articles again!!1!
: From:         Rabbi Shlomo Ruthenberg 
: Date:         1997/05/06
: Newsgroups:   news.admin.net-abuse.policy
: 
: To homosexual anti-semites like Peter Vorobieff and Dan Koroleff,
: anyone smarter than them must be a "kike" - and this means 99.99%
: of the population.

You haven't had an original thought in a decade.

To get things CRANKing again, take a sledgehammer
and pound yourself in the head until it is a nice
soft consistency.

You'll feel much better.

YOU'RE WELCOME!
---guy

   Traffic analysis confirms Dimitry is Shlomo - have a great Shabbos!

   HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA cough cough HA HA HA HA HA




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 05:54:55 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Me & Louis Freeh
Message-ID: <199802121354.IAA15240@panix2.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


It's time for "ASK GUY ANYTHING" again!

   >   Subject: Re: Me & Louis Freeh
   >   From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr. Doctor Net Twinkie KOTM)
   >   
   >   Declan McCullagh  writes:
   >   
   >   > Geez, I was wondering why I hadn't heard anything from Vulis in so long.
   >   > Forgot I killfiled him half a year ago.
   >   
   >   WHAAAAA! WHAAAA! Nobody wants to read what I have to say!
   >   
   >   I don't understand! Someone please explain?
   >   
   >   ---
   >   
   >   Dr. Doctor Net Twinkie KOTM
   >   Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

GUY REPLIES:

Dear Twinkie,

   The answer is simple:

      You are so full of shit, flies worship you as the One True God!

YOU'RE WELCOME!
---guy

   What a loser!




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Lizard 
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 09:57:03 -0800 (PST)
To: "Michael Sims" 
Subject: Re: "Corporations selling your ass down the road for a dollar"
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980212095051.00bec7b0@dnai.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 07:10 AM 2/12/98 -0400, Michael Sims wrote:

>When I see a libertarian calling for an elimination of all forms of 
>corporations and a return to sole proprietorships and straight 
>partnerships as the only form of business, then I'll know he's 
>ideologically consistent.  Until then, pro-business is the only 
>reasonable way to describe the twisted rationale behind 
>libertarianism.

I've been saying that for a long time. I'm not 100% certain I wish to
eliminate entirely the corporation, but the idea of an 'artificial person'
as an entity to take the blame for crimes committed by real people is
highly dubious to me. If Monty Burns says, "Let's dump the toxic waste in
the school ground, who cares if some kids die!", then it should be he who
faces criminal charges -- not his corporation which gets fined.

A corporation, like any collective entity, is at best a convenience -- a
way to deal with large numbers of individuals by providing a central
identifying tag. This way, "Motorola Chips" can sell to "Apple Computer",
and the deal remains valid even if the chip-seller at Motorola and the
chip-buyer at Apple quit their jobs, because the contract was not between
those two individuals, but between the companies they represented. But just
as there is in truth no 'society', no 'race', no 'people', there is also,
in truth, no corporation -- it must all come down to individual acts and
individual responsibilities.

>Which brings me back to my original point - the AIM representation at 
>the aforementioned hearings.  In Libber-land, there's nothing 
>reprehensible there.  Corporations are lobbying for their "individual 
>rights", one of them being the right to make maximum profit by 
>eliminating/marginalizing competitors.  

Not with the power of government behind them. That's like saying there's
nothing wrong with Joe's Deli asking Vinnie The Torch to pay a little
'visit' to Max's Deli across the street.

You eliminate/marginalize competition by convincing consumers to purchase
your products over theirs. Not by having the government regulate them out
of business. What you're looking at is corporate socialism -- the current
perversion of the 'free market' that America is living under.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: kozmo killah 
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 11:51:34 -0800 (PST)
To: Greg Lehey 
Subject: Re: help with editor?
Message-ID: <19980212194840.5943.rocketmail@send1d.yahoomail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/html





I Never Thought I'd Be the One Telling You This:

                    I Actually Read a Piece of E-Mail & I'm Going to
Europe on the Proceeds!


Hello!

My name is Karen Liddell; I'm a 35-year-old mom, wife, and part-time
accountant. As a rule, I delete all unsolicited "junk"
e-mail and use my account primarily for business. I received what I
assumed was this same e-mail countless times and deleted
it each time.

About two months ago I received it again and, because of the catchy
subject line, I finally read it. Afterwards, I thought , "OK,
I give in, I'm going to try this. I can certainly afford to invest $20
and, on the other hand, there's nothing wrong with creating a
little excess cash." I promptly mailed four $5 bills and, after
receiving the reports, paid a friend of mine a small fee to send out
some e-mail advertisements for me. After reading the reports, I also
learned how easy it is to bulk e-mail for
free! 

I was not prepared for the results. Everyday for the last six weeks, my
P.O. box has been overflowing with $5 bills; many days
the excess fills up an extra mail bin and I've had to upgrade to the
corporate-size box! I am stunned by all the money that
keeps rolling in!

My husband and I have been saving for several years to make a
substantial downpayment on a house. Now, not only are we
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I promise you, if you follow the directions in this e-mail and be
prepared to eventually set aside about an hour each day to
follow up (and count your money!), you will make at least as much money
as we did. You don't need to be a wiz at the
computer, but I'll bet you already are. If you can open an envelope,
remove the money, and send an e-mail message, then
you're on your way to the bank. Take the time to read this so you'll
understand how easy it is. If I can do this, so can you!

GO FOR IT NOW!!

Karen Liddell
The following is a copy of the e-mail I read:


              
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

                         This is a LEGAL, MONEY-MAKING PHENOMENON.
                      PRINT this letter, read the directions, THEN READ
IT AGAIN !!!


You are about to embark on the most profitable and unique program you
may ever see. Many times over, it has demonstrated
and proven its ability to generate large amounts of cash. This program
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ever-growing on-line population desirous of additional income.

This is a legitimate, LEGAL, money-making opportunity. It does not
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EVERY TIME!"

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- Raise capital to start their own business
- Pay off debts
- Buy homes, cars, etc., 
- Even retire! 

"This is your chance, so don't pass it up!"

                
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                              OVERVIEW OF THIS EXTRAORDINARY 
                        ELECTRONIC MULTI-LEVEL MARKETING PROGRAM
                
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Basically, this is what we do:

We send thousands of people a product for $5.00 that costs next to
nothing to produce and e-mail. As with all multi-level
businesses, we build our business by recruiting new partners and
selling our products. Every state in the U.S. allows you to
recruit new multi- level business online (via your computer).

The products in this program are a series of four business and
financial reports costing $5.00 each. Each order you receive via
"snail mail" will include:

* $5.00 cash
* The name and number of the report they are ordering
* The e-mail address where you will e-mail them the report they ordered.

To fill each order, you simply e-mail the product to the buyer. THAT'S
IT! The $5.00 is yours! This is the EASIEST
electronic multi-level marketing business anywhere! 

                         FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS TO THE LETTER AND
                       BE PREPARED TO REAP THE STAGGERING BENEFITS!

                               ******* I N S T R U C T I O N S *******


This is what you MUST do:

1. Order all 4 reports shown on the list below (you can't sell them if
you don't order them).

* For each report, send $5.00 CASH, the NAME & NUMBER OF THE 
REPORT YOU ARE ORDERING, YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS, and YOUR
RETURN POSTAL ADDRESS (in case of a problem) to the person whose 
name appears on the list next to the report.

* When you place your order, make sure you order each of the four
reports. You will need all four reports so that you can save them
on your computer and resell them.

* Within a few days you will receive, via e-mail, each of the four
reports. 
Save them on your computer so they will be accessible for you to send 
to the 1,000's of people who will order them from you.

2. IMPORTANT-- DO NOT alter the names of the people who are listed next 
to each report, or their sequence on the list, in any way other than is
instructed below in steps "a" through "d" or you will lose out on the
majority of your profits. Once you understand the way this works,
you'll 
also see how it doesn't work if you change it. Remember, this method 
has been tested, and if you alter it, it will not work.

a. Look below for the listing of available reports.

b. After you've ordered the four reports, replace the name and address 
under REPORT #1 with your name and address, moving the one that 
was there down to REPORT #2. 

c. Move the name and address that was under REPORT #2 down to 
REPORT #3. 

d. Move the name and address that was under REPORT #3 down to 
REPORT #4. 

e. The name and address that was under REPORT #4 is removed from
the list and has NO DOUBT collected a very large sum of money.

                   Please make sure you copy everyone's name and
address ACCURATELY!!!


3. Take this entire letter, including the modified list of names, and
save 
it to your computer. Make NO changes to the instruction portion of this 
letter.

4. Now you're ready to start an advertising campaign on the
WORLDWIDE WEB! Advertising on the WEB is very, very inexpensive,
and there are HUNDREDS of FREE places to advertise. Another
avenue which you could use for advertising is e-mail lists. 
You can buy these lists for under $20/2,000 addresses or you
can pay someone a minimal charge to take care of it for you. 
BE SURE TO START YOUR AD CAMPAIGN IMMEDIATELY!

5. For every $5.00 you receive, all you must do is e-mail them the
report
they ordered. THAT'S IT! ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE 
ON ALL ORDERS! This will guarantee that the e-mail THEY send out,
with YOUR name and address on it, will be prompt because they can't
advertise until they receive the report!

                               
------------------------------------------
                                    AVAILABLE REPORTS
                               
------------------------------------------
                       ***Order Each REPORT by NUMBER and NAME***


Notes:
- ALWAYS SEND $5 CASH FOR EACH REPORT 
- ALWAYS SEND YOUR ORDER VIA FIRST CLASS MAIL 
- Make sure the cash is concealed by wrapping it in at least two sheets
of paper 
- On one of those sheets of paper, include: (a) the number & name of
the report you are ordering, (b) your e-mail address,
and (c) your postal address.
_________________________________________________________________
REPORT #1 "HOW TO MAKE $250,000 THROUGH MULTI-LEVEL SALES" 

ORDER REPORT #1 FROM: 
KBL
P.O. Box 624-4960
Irvine, CA 92616-4960
_________________________________________________________________
REPORT #2 "MAJOR CORPORATIONS AND MULTI-LEVEL SALES"

ORDER REPORT #2 FROM:
TLK Enterprises
1439 North Berwick
Indianapolis, IN 46222
_________________________________________________________________
REPORT #3 "SOURCES FOR THE BEST MAILING LISTS"

ORDER REPORT #3 FROM:
MEV
PO Box 5153
GREENWICH, CT 06831
_________________________________________________________________
REPORT #4 "EVALUATING MULTI-LEVEL SALES PLANS"

ORDER REPORT #4 FROM:
Pat Owens
309 Teakwood Dr.
Monroe, LA 71203
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

          
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                               HERE'S AN EXAMPLE OF HOW THIS 
                            AMAZING PLAN CAN MAKE YOU $MONEY$
          
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Let's say you decide to start small just to see how well it works.
Assume your goal is to get 10 people to participate on your
first level. (Placing a lot of FREE ads on the internet will EASILY get
a larger response.) Also assume that everyone else in
YOUR ORGANIZATION gets ONLY 10 downline members. Follow this example to
achieve the STAGGERING results
below.

1st level--your 10 members with
$5...........................................$50
2nd level--10 members from those 10 ($5 x 100)..................$500
3rd level--10 members from those 100 ($5 x 1,000)..........$5,000
4th level--10 members from those 1,000 ($5 x 10,000)...$50,000
THIS TOTALS ----------->$55,550

Remember friends, this assumes that the people who participate only
recruit 10 people each. Think for a moment what would
happen if they got 20 people to participate! Most people get 100's of
participants! THINK ABOUT IT!

Your cost to participate in this is practically nothing (surely you can
afford $20). You obviously already have an internet
connection and e-mail is FREE!!! REPORT#3 shows you the most productive
methods for bulk e-mailing and purchasing
e-mail lists. Some list & bulk e-mail vendors even work on trade!

             About 250,000 new people get online every month, just on
one service alone!

                              *******TIPS FOR SUCCESS*******


* TREAT THIS AS YOUR BUSINESS! Be prompt, professional, and follow 
the directions accurately.

* Send for the four reports IMMEDIATELY so you will have them when 
the orders start coming in because:

When you receive a $5 order, you MUST send out the requested
product/report to comply with the U.S. Postal & Lottery Laws, Title
18,Sections 1302 and 1341 or Title 18, Section 3005 in the U.S. Code,
also Code of Federal Regs. vol. 16, Sections 255 and 436, which state 
that "a product or service must be exchanged for money received."

* ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON THE ORDERS YOU RECEIVE.

* Be patient and persistent with this program. If you follow the 
instructions exactly, the results WILL undoubtedly be SUCCESSFUL!

* ABOVE ALL, HAVE FAITH IN YOURSELF AND KNOW YOU WILL SUCCEED!


                            *******YOUR SUCCESS GUIDELINE*******


Here are some guidelines to follow that can better guarantee your
success:

If you don't receive 10 to 20 orders for REPORT #1 within two weeks,
continue advertising until you do. Then, a couple of
weeks later you should receive at least 100 orders for REPORT #2. If
you don't, continue advertising until you do. Once you
have received 100 or more orders for REPORT #2, YOU CAN RELAX, because
the system is already working for you, and
the cash will continue to roll in!

THIS IS IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER:

Every time your name is moved down on the list, you are placed in front
of a DIFFERENT report. You can KEEP TRACK
of your PROGRESS by watching which report people are ordering from you.
If you want to generate more income, send
another batch of e-mails (500,000 or more) and start the whole process
again! There is no limit to the income you will
generate from this business! You can also ask a qualified bulk e-mailer
for tips on what is working the best. Find out if he or
she is participating in the pro
gram.

NOTE: If you need help with starting a business, registering a business
name, how income tax is handled, etc., contact your local office of the
Small Business Administration (a Federal agency) for free help and
answers to questions. Also, the Internal Revenue Service offers free
help
via telephone and free seminars about business taxes.

                            *******T E S T I M O N I A L S*******


This program does work, but you must follow it EXACTLY! Especially the
rule of not trying to place your name in a different position, it won't
work and you'll lose a lot of potential income. I'm living proof that
it works. It really is a great opportunity to make relatively easy
money, with
little cost to you. If you do choose to participate, follow the program
exactly, and you'll be on your way to financial security. 
Sean McLaughlin, Jackson, MS

My name is Frank. My wife, Doris, and I live in Bel-Air, MD. I am a
cost accountant with a major U.S. Corporation and I make pretty good
money. When I received the program I grumbled to Doris about receiving
"junk mail." I made fun of the whole thing, spouting my knowledge
of the population and percentages involved. I "knew" it wouldn't work.
Doris totally ignored my supposed intelligence and jumped in with
both feet. I made merciless fun of her, and was ready to lay the old "I
told you so" on her wh
en the thing didn't work... well, the laugh was on me! Within two weeks
she had received over 50 responses. Within 45 days she had received
over $147,200 in $5 bills! I was shocked! I was sure that I had it all
figured and that it wouldn't work. I AM a believer now. I have joined
Doris in
her "hobby." I did have seven more years until retirement, but I think
of the "rat race" and it's not for me. We owe it all to MLM.
Frank T., Bel-Air, MD

I just want to pass along my best wishes and encouragement to you. Any
doubts you have will vanish when your first orders come in. I even
checked with the U.S. Post Office to verify that the plan was legal. It
definitely is! IT WORKS!!!
Paul Johnson, Raleigh, NC

The main reason for this letter is to convince you that this system is
honest, lawful, extremely profitable, and is a way to get a large
amount of
money in a short time. I was approached several times before I checked
this out. I joined just to see what one could expect in return for the
minimal effort and money required. To my astonishment, I received
$36,470.00 in the first 14 weeks, with money still coming in.
Sincerely yours, Phillip A. Brown, Esq.

Not being the gambling type, it took me several weeks to make up my
mind to participate in this plan. But conservative that I am, I decided
that
the initial investment was so little that there was just no way that I
wouldn't get enough orders to at least get my money back. Boy, was I
surprised when I found my medium-size post office box crammed with
orders! For awhile, it got so overloaded that I had to start picking up
my
mail at the window. I'll make more money this year than any 10 years of
my life
before. The nice thing about this deal is that it doesn't matter where
in the U.S. the people live. There simply isn't a better investment
with a
faster return.
Mary Rockland, Lansing, MI

I had received this program before. I deleted it, but later I wondered
if I shouldn't have given it a try. Of course, I had no idea who to
contact to
get another copy, so I had to wait until I was e-mailed another
program...11 months passed then it came...I didn't delete this one!...I
made more
than $41,000 on the first try!!
D. Wilburn, Muncie, IN

This is my third time to participate in this plan. We have quit our
jobs, and will soon buy a home on the beach and live off the interest
on our
money. The only way on earth that this plan will work for you is if you
do it. For your sake, and for your family's sake don't pass up this
golden
opportunity. Good luck and happy spending!
Charles Fairchild, Spokane, WA

                         ORDER YOUR REPORTS TODAY AND GET 
                                STARTED ON YOUR ROAD TO 
                                   FINANCIAL FREEDOM!!!

*** Get The A.I.A.T Bulk Emailer FREE - Where To Get it ***
*** FAX/CALL +1 212 2082904 (US) or FAX +44 (01772) 492507 (UK) ***
*** Or Download From FireFox Freeware http://209.150.131.246 ***


---Greg Lehey  wrote:
>
> On Fri,  6 February 1998 at 18:33:36 -0800, kozmo killah wrote:
> 
> [ Nothing legible, just a web page from the Tortilla Industry
> Association ]
> 
> PLEASE stop sending this nonsense, or I'll recommend to have you taken
> off the distribution list.  Read http://www.lemis.com/email.html for
> how to send mail messages.  If you're having so much difficulty that
> you can't even send a mail message, you're obviously going to have to
> solve that problem some other way.
> 
> Greg
> 
DO YOU YAHOO!?Get your free @yahoo.com address at Yahoo! Mail.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Duncan Frissell 
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 08:59:25 -0800 (PST)
To: "Michael Sims" 
Subject: Re: "Corporations selling your ass down the road for a dollar"
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199802121659.LAA25269@mail1.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 07:10 AM 2/12/98 -0400, Michael Sims wrote:

>Except, of course, that *businesses* count as individuals in a 
>libertarian world.  Yes, the corporation, that creation wholly of 
>government, becomes a sort of super-individual - and of course all 
>individuals are equal, but some are just a bit more equal.

Except that one does not need government to form a limited liability entity.  It was never necessary.  These days in particular with secret voting protocols and anonymous communications, it would be trivial to have a limited liability entity whose owners had no personal liability for organizational debts because they are unknown and unknowable.  Yet they can control the entity without losing their anonymity.  This was always possible.  Now it is easy.

In French corporations were originally called (pardon my spelling) "société anonime".

Certainly as a cypherpunk, you believe in anonymous organizations.

>When I see a libertarian calling for an elimination of all forms of 
>corporations 

Certainly anarcho libertarians have always opposed government "incorporation" since they opposed government.

>and a return to sole proprietorships and straight 
>partnerships as the only form of business, then I'll know he's 
>ideologically consistent.  

What about Trusts, Companies of Adventurers, lots of other things...

>But very very little time complaining about the *existence* of 
>corporations whose primary function is to shield the important folks 
>who run and fund the corporation from the consequences of their 
>actions.  Come on!  This should be a primary offense!  Individuals 
>with no responsibility!

One can't impose responsibility on all.  Thus, I may be too poor to pay if you sue me.  So don't deal with me.  If you don't want to deal with an anonymous business entity, don't.

DCF






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To: 
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Message-ID: <53405902_89184176>
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 18:43:50 -0800 (PST)
To: James Morris 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 5:01 PM -0800 2/12/98, James Morris wrote:
>I'm just wondering if anyone else finds it particularly odd that while
>Australia is prepared to commit SAS troops, medical and intelligence
>personnel to a possible strike against Iraq, the US government still
>doesn't seem to trust us enough to use US developed cryptography
>products with adequate security.

It's not at all odd.

In the New World Order, you Aussies are children. As children, your role is
to die in wars like Viet Nam and the Gulf, under orders from the New World
Reichsfuhrer.

And like the American children sent to die in wars at age 18, but too young
to either vote or drink alchohol, children cannot be allowed to possess
dangerous crypto tools which might let them deviate from parental wishes.

(Seriously, what the holy fuck are you Aussies doing getting involved in
our Moral Leader's vanity war with Saddam? The United Nations authorized
action in 1990 to "liberate Kuwait." That was done. All this recent
folderol about "ensuring Saddam complies with inspections" is outside the
original charter. And, of course, pointless. If the U.S. launches Bill's
War, I hope it gets paid back in full with some attacks by freedom
fighters. Maybe then Amerika will lose its desire to boss the world around
and will get back to basics.)

--Tim May

Just Say No to "Big Brother Inside"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^3,021,377   | black markets, collapse of governments.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: feen4@juno.com (a b c)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 18:21:44 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: "Ryan McDonald" : Fwd:
Message-ID: <19980212.190031.3782.12.feen4@juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


--------- Begin forwarded message ----------
From: "Ryan McDonald" 
To: brandann@hotmail.com, mitya@demis.belpak.minsk.by,
ddement@hotmail.com,Yablo@hotmail.com, bigspring1@juno.com,
anagramm@hotmail.com,sirus1@juno.com, feen4@juno.com,
pleontks@hotmail.com
Subject: Fwd:
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 21:05:28 PST
Message-ID: <19980212050531.25108.qmail@hotmail.com>




>Received: from 207.98.182.106 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP;
>	Sat, 31 Jan 1998 15:33:30 PST
>X-Originating-IP: [207.98.182.106]
>From: "Perrin ." 
>To: wilbersbabe@hotmail.com, phoebusapollo@mail.geocities.com,
>    parcha@hotmail.com, cypherpunks@toad.com, deanna@keylink.net,
>    cjensen@smtplink.rockford.edu, yablo@hotmail.com, 
flood69@hotmail.com,
>    ftaylor@seer.stetson.edu, punkoff@usa.net, 
louisadamnit@hotmail.com,
>    nailbomb666@hotmail.com, yuhai@hotmail.com, pierre@netins.net,
>    jewlie@nwiowa.com, mansonswonka@hotmail.com, jonesy@mindless.com,
>    sjackson@inreach.com, kirijane@hotmail.com,
>    wrightk@tron.cochise.cc.az.us, 727233@ican.net, 
luvdust@hotmail.com,
>    tanyak@winshop.com.au, lrigyeknom01@rocketmail.com, 
mrspots@sinosa.com,
>    nefurah@hotmail.com, thalion.taur@juno.com, 
childprodigy@mailexcite.com,
>    mix69@hotmail.com, philip@infospeedway.net, datahaven@hotmail.com,
>    papa@micoks.net, sparkles4@hotmail.com, shandave@hotmail.com,
>    tabnit@hotmail.com, thetigress_@hotmail.com, 
thumper_069@hotmail.com,
>    jacket9@primenet.com, Yankee1428@aol.com, bluelover2000@yahoo.com
>Subject: Fwd:
>Content-Type: text/plain
>Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 15:33:30 PST
>
>>
>>
>>LIST OF POSSIBLE SLOGANS PROMOTING NATIONAL CONDOM WEEK
>>
>>1.  COVER YOUR STUMP BEFORE YOU HUMP
>>
>>2.  BEFORE YOU ATTACK HER, WRAP YOUR WHACKER
>>
>>3.  DON'T BE SILLY, PROTECT YOUR WILLY
>>
>>4.  WHEN IN DOUBT, SHROUD YOUR SPOUT
>>
>>5.  DON'T BE A LONER, COVER YOUR BONER
>>
>>6.  YOU CANT GO WRONG IF YOU SHIELD YOUR DONG
>>
>>7.  IF YOU'RE NOT GOING TO SACK IT, GO HOME AND WHACK IT.
>>
>>8.  IF YOU THINK SHE'S SPUNKY COVER YOUR MONKEY
>>
>>9.  IF YOU SLIP BETWEEN HER THIGHS, BE SURE TO CONDOMIZE
>>
>>10.  IT WILL BE SWEETER IF YOU WRAP YOUR PETER
>>
>>11.  SHE WONT GET SICK IF YOU WRAP YOUR DICK
>>
>>12.  IF YOU GO IN TO HEAT, PACKAGE YOUR MEAT
>>
>>13.  WHILE YOUR UNDRESSING VENUS, DRESS UP YOUR PENIS
>>
>>14.  WHEN YOU TAKE OFF HER PANTS AND BLOUSE, SLIP UP YOUR 
>>TROUSER  MOUSE
>>
>>15.  ESPECIALLY IN DECEMBER, GIFT WRAP YOUR MEMBER
>>
>>16.  NEVER, NEVER DECK HER WITH AN UNWRAPPED PECKER
>>
>>17.  DON'T BE A FOOL, VULCANIZE YOUR TOOL
>>
>>18.  THE RIGHT SELECTION WILL PROTECT YOUR ERECTION
>>
>>19.  WRAP IT IN FOIL BEFORE CHECKING HER OIL
>>
>>20.  A CRANK WITH ARMOR WILL NEVER HARM HER
>>
>>21.  NO GLOVE, NO LOVE!
>>
>>
>>YOU WILL EXPERIENCE GREAT SEX WITHIN FOUR DAYS OF
>>RECEIVING THIS LETTER, PROVIDED YOU SEND IT ON.
>>Since the copy must tour the world, you must make ten copies and send 
>>them to others.
>>
>>This is no joke.  Send no money. Send copies to people who need to get 
>>laid within 96 hours. You have been selected to receive this letter 
>>because the person  who sent this to you either thinks you need good 
>>luck or they want to send  the curse of this letter on to you.
>>
>>IF YOU SEND THIS TO:
>>
>>0 people...  Your life will be a living hell
>>1-3 people...  Your next relationship will be fun but 
>>won't last long
>>4-6 people...  Someone will get a crush on you
>>7-10 people...  You will get a date for Friday night
>>11-14 people...  You will get a date for the next school 
>>dance
>>15-18 people...  Your crush will ask for your number
>>19-24 people...  You will meet the person of your dreams
>>25-29 people...  Your crush will ask you out
>>30-34 people...  Your next relationship will last long and be 
>>good
>>35-37 people...  You will live long enough and have a good life and 
>>get lots of sex!
>>
>>You must send this in 1 day after reading it. If you do 
>>not send this to anyone your life will be a living hell. The more 
>people 
>>you send this letter to the more luck you will have.
>>
>
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


Join the Dark Army of Mephistopheles!!!

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

--------- End forwarded message ----------

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Frantz 
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 22:21:13 -0800 (PST)
To: Lizard 
Subject: Re: "Corporations selling your ass down the road for a dollar"
In-Reply-To: <199802121211.HAA19946@arutam.inch.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 9:50 AM -0800 2/12/98, Lizard wrote:
>I've been saying that for a long time. I'm not 100% certain I wish to
>eliminate entirely the corporation, but the idea of an 'artificial person'
>as an entity to take the blame for crimes committed by real people is
>highly dubious to me. If Monty Burns says, "Let's dump the toxic waste in
>the school ground, who cares if some kids die!", then it should be he who
>faces criminal charges -- not his corporation which gets fined.

I fully agree, and I think US law agrees, that an illegal act by an
employee is not shielded by incorporation.  But as many people on this list
have noted, what the law says, and what is enforced are widely different.

Probably the most valuable feature of corporations is the way they limit
the financial liability of their stockholders and managers.  This limit
allows people to go into business without having to worry about business
creditors coming to take their houses and cars.  (And wives and first born
:-)

Since everyone knows what the deal is, there is no fraud.  Everyone
extending credit to a corporation knows that it is the corporation's credit
rating which is relevant, not the credit ratings of the members of the
board of directors.

Limited liability, coupled with the willingness of venture capitalists to
fund ventures lead by people whose previous ventures have failed, are the
engine which allows Silicon Valley's creative destruction approach to
making money succeed.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz       | Market research shows the  | Periwinkle -- Consulting
(408)356-8506     | average customer has one   | 16345 Englewood Ave.
frantz@netcom.com | teat and one testicle.     | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 19:54:53 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re:  Sabotaging Australian Involvement in Bill's War
Message-ID: <199802130354.WAA28444@panix2.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


   >   Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 18:45:38 -0800
   >   To: James Morris , cypherpunks@toad.com
   >   From: Tim May 
   >   Subject: Sabotaging Australian Involvement in Bill's War
   >   
   >   At 5:01 PM -0800 2/12/98, James Morris wrote:
   >   >I'm just wondering if anyone else finds it particularly odd that while
   >   >Australia is prepared to commit SAS troops, medical and intelligence
   >   >personnel to a possible strike against Iraq, the US government still
   >   >doesn't seem to trust us enough to use US developed cryptography
   >   >products with adequate security.
   >   
   >   It's not at all odd.
   >   
   >   In the New World Order, you Aussies are children. As children, your role is
   >   to die in wars like Viet Nam and the Gulf, under orders from the New World
   >   Reichsfuhrer.
   >   
   >   And like the American children sent to die in wars at age 18, but too young
   >   to either vote or drink alchohol, children cannot be allowed to possess
   >   dangerous crypto tools which might let them deviate from parental wishes.
   >   
   >   (Seriously...

The Aussies are obligated by treaty for the crypto/spying stuff.

We Americans spy on all your domestic traffic by treaty.

You can also request specifically targeted AU-domestic information
from our personnel manning in AU the spy equipment, and we hand it
to them.

That's what the UKUSA (pronounced you-koo-za) agreement is all about:
none of your people have broken any domestic spy laws. The British
provide that service for us in Fort Meade, VA, we provide that service
to the British in Menwith Hill...

The EU recently declared the NSA was performing massive EU-domestic
spying: that's how we have access. (It also confirms the entire
massive US-domestic NSA spying claim of the Cryptography Manifesto)

There has been a stunning lack of outrage to the EU statement: I'd
have thought USA-based privacy groups and reporters would jump all
over it.

#   "Moynihan Says U.S. Killed His Anti-Spy Measure"
#   By Irvin Molotsky, The New York Times, September 11, 1985
#
#   Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan charged that the CIA and State Department
#   had killed a measure he had introduced aimed at protecting American
#   citizens from having their telephone conversations intercepted by foreign
#   agents in this country.
#
#   The Senator's bill would have made telephone call interception by foreign
#   agents illegal and would have provided for their expulsion.
#
#   The Chairman of the Select Committee on Intelligence opposed the measure
#   as unnecessary and could lead to disclosing "sensitive intelligence
#   sources."
 
British wiretappers at the helm of the NSA's domestic spy-fest.
 


You are "secondary" parties to the treaty...low on the totem pole.

See the Cryptography Manifesto at:

   http://www.erols.com/paulwolf/cointelpro/cointel.htm

(scroll down once there).

Here is the Australian section...

You'll have to purchase the "Project L.U.C.I.D." book for more details
[that I snipped] from the Australian "National Surveillance" report.

Snipped: some Australian politicians chased around trying to find out what 
the NSA was doing, then reversing themselves ("nothing's happening..").

I have to admit, it wasn't until I read this Australian report that
I realized most of NASA's space shots were military.
---guy


******************************************************************************


                        Australian ECHELON Spotted
                        ---------- ------- -------

*   http://www.texemarrs.com, Living Truth Ministries 800/234-9673

Texe Marrs and his organization are big on the "Anti-Christ" aspects of all
the technology the UKUSA governments have deployed to monitor people.

I am just glad he knows the Beast when he sees it, that it is Evil (without
the people involved necessarily being evil in intent: agreed!) and that
unless we do something soon, it will be too late: Earth will become Hell.

His book-jacket bio: Texe Marrs was a career U.S. Air Force officer (retired).
He commanded communications-electronics and engineering units around the globe.

*   "Project L.U.C.I.D.", by Texe Marrs, 1996, ISBN 1-884302-02-5
*   
*   Appendix 2: World Surveillance Headquarters
*   
*   The report that follows, originally entitled "National Surveillance", was
*   written by Australia's Peter Sawer and published in Inside News (P.O. Box
*   311, Maleny, Queensland 4552, Australia). It first came to my attention
*   when it was printed in the U.S. by LtCol Archibald E. Robert's Bulletin,
*   the newsletter of the highly respected Committee to Restore the Constitu-
*   tion (P.O. Box 986, Fort Collins, Colorado 80522).
*   
*   The article caused a flurry of activity and a round of vigorous denials,
*   admissions, coverups, and more denials by Australian political leaders.
*   
*   The article contends that (1) America's National Security Agency (NSA)
*   is the world surveillance headquarters, and (2) Australia has it's own
*   secret "computer center", linked with the NSA via satellite, which
*   illegally watches over Australia's citizenry.

Article snippets... capitalization by the original authors...

*   On a fateful fall day in America, on November 4th, 1952, a new United
*   States government agency quietly was brought into existence through
*   presidential decree.
*   
*   The birth of the National Security Agency on that day so long ago
*   heralded the beginning of the world's most sophisticated and all
*   encompassing surveillance system, and the beginnings of the greatest
*   threat to individual liberty and freedom not only in Australia, but
*   the entire planet will ever see.
*   
*   The NSA grew out of the post war "Signals Intelligence" section of the
*   U.S. War Department. It is unique amongst government organizations in
*   America, and indeed most other countries, in that there are NO specified
*   or defined limits to its powers.
*   
*   The NSA can (and does) do just about whatever it wants, whenever, and
*   wherever it wants. Although little known in both the U.S. and elsewhere,
*   the NSA is quite literally the most powerful organization in the world.
*   
*   Not limited by any law, and answerable only to the U.S. National Security
*   Council through COMSEC, the NSA now controls an information and
*   surveillance network around the globe that even Orwell, in his novel
*   "1984", could not have imagined.
*   
*   Most people believe that the current "computer age" grew out of either
*   the space program or the nuclear weapons race; it did not.
*   
*   ALL significant advances in computer technology over the last thirty
*   years, from the very beginnings of IBM, through to the super computers
*   of today, have been for the NSA. In fact, the world's very first super
*   computer, the awe-inspiring CRAY, was built to specification for the
*   NSA, and installed in their headquarters in 1976.
*   
*   The entire twentieth century of development of computer technology has
*   been the result of the NSA's unquenchable thirst for ever bigger, ever
*   faster machines on which to collect, collate, and cross-reference data
*   on hundreds of millions of honest, law-abiding, and totally unsuspecting
*   individuals. And not only in America, but in many other countries as
*   well. Including, as we shall see, Australia.

[
    "The Rise of the Computer State", David Burnham, 1984

    p134: ...the technical advances that were occurring did so not entirely
    by chance. The computers' ability to acquire, organize, store and
    retrieve huge amounts of data was an essential factor leading to the
    broad definition of intelligence that was fostered by the National
    Security Agency and its godfather, the National Security Council.

    Computer research was supported by NSA in a major way by secret research
    dollars. Thomas C. Reed, Director of the Pentagon's Telecommunications,
    Command and Control System, referring to domestic intercity telephone
    microwave radio trunks, said in 1975, "Modern computer techniques make
    it possible to sort through that traffic and find target conversations
    easily."

    p126-127: Since the wiretap law barred the Bureau of Narcotics and
    Dangerous Drugs from installing a tap on New York City's Grand Central
    Station pay phones, bureau head John Ingersoll asked the NSA for help.

    Within a few months the spy agency was sorting through all the
    conversations it was already acquiring for general intelligence
    purposes.

    Of course, the technicians were required to acquire, monitor, and
    discard a large number of calls made by people with no connection
    with the cocaine business in South American cities.

    But so pleased was Mr. Ingersoll with the tips he was getting from the
    dragnet monitoring that he ultimately persuaded the NSA to monitor
    simultaneously nineteen other U.S. communication hubs.

]

*   "Project L.U.C.I.D.", continued...
*   
*    Fort Meade is the hub of an information gathering octopus whose tentacles
*    reach out to the four corners of the earth.
*    
*    The principal means of communicating this information is by the National
*    Aeronautical and Space Administration (NASA) satellite communications
*    system, which most people erroneously think exists primarily for the
*    space program.
*    
*    It does not.
*    
*    The satellites, indeed NASA and the entire American Space Program, exist
*    largely to supply the NSA with its telecommunications system. That is why
*    the bulk of its operations are officially declared 'secret'. This
*    ultimate 'Big Brother' machine even has an official name 'Project
*    Platform'.

[
    "The Puzzle Palace": all these computer systems are linked together
    under Project Platform. The first Cray went to the NSA. p138
]

*   Although the NSA was officially formed in 1952, it grew out of an
*   International Agreement signed in 1947. Officially termed the "UKUSA
*   PACT," this was an agreement between Britain, the U.S.A., Canada, New
*   Zealand, Australia and the NATO countries.
*   
*   The UKUSA PACT was, quite simply and bluntly, an agreement between these
*   countries to collect and collate information on their respective citizens
*   and to share this information with each other and pass on to Fort Meade.
*   
*   On March 9th 1977, the Leader of the Opposition, Mr. Bill Hayden, asked
*   "questions on notice" on the subject. On April 19, Prime Minister Malcom
*   Fraser, declined to answer the questions, "in the interests of national
*   security."
*   
*   The first clue of the Australian Headquarters of PROJECT PLATFORM appeared
*   in 1975. Then, as today, government undertakings involving expenditure
*   over a certain amount must be presented to a Senate body, the Joint
*   Parliamentary Accounts Committee (JPAC). In 1975 JPAC was asked to
*   examine and approve finance for the construction of a new building in
*   Deakin, a leafy suburb of Canberra.
*   
*   This quite massive building was to be constructed behind an existing, much
*   smaller one, which, until then, had been known to the public only as the
*   "Deakin Telephone Exchange."
*   
*   That it was not, and never had been, simply a "telephone exchange" finally
*   came to light in the 1975 JPAC Approval Report, when it admitted that the
*   existing building had a comprehensive basement which housed NASA's micro-
*   wave communications headquarters in Australia. Part of the justification
*   of the "need" for the new, much larger building, was that by 1980, it was
*   expected that NASA would run out of room in their existing home.
*   
*   Apart from NASA, it is now admitted that Deakin houses the National
*   Computer Headquarters for, amongst others, the Australian Defense
*   Department, the Australian Taxation Office, the Department of Social
*   Security, the Commonwealth Department of Education, and the Department
*   of Transport and Communications.
*   
*   Both Tax and Social Security are, in turn, directly linked to Medicare.
*   In fact, the Department of Health used Social Security's computer
*   facilities there until their own were completed.
*   
*   A small, but highly significant, part of the building is, in fact,
*   occupied by Telecom. This is the part that contains the networking
*   junctions for the optical-fiber lines leased by the banks for their
*   "Electronic Funds Transfer System" (EFTS). ALL financial transactions
*   for the banks pass through there via subsidiary company, "Funds
*   Transfers Services Pty Ltd." (FTS)


*   The New York Times INTERNATIONAL Wednesday, May 21, 1997
*   by Clyde H. Farnsworth, Woomera, Australia.
*   
*   As Darth Vader's Death Star is blown to bits in the newly remastered "Star
*   Wars" at the local theater, the audience of Australian and American Air
*   Force personnel, and squadrons of their children, lets out a whoop. As the
*   lights go on, everyone is beaming.
*   [snip]
*   
*   Pine Gap employs nearly 1,000 people, mainly from the CIA and the U.S.
*   National Reconnaissance Office.
*   
*   It is the ground station for a U.S. satellite network that intercepts
*   telephone, radio, data links and other communications around the world.

Worldwide telephone interception.


******************************************************************************




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 20:19:27 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re:  Regulators back down on SEC/NASD email snooping rules
Message-ID: <199802130419.XAA29697@panix2.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


   >   From: Don "Free Radical" McLean 
   >   Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 14:27:19 -0800 (PST)
   >   Subject: Regulators back down on SEC/NASD email snooping rules
   >   
   >   Last Friday I wrote in Netly about the SEC approving rules dealing with
   >   email snooping on home computers and the potential privacy violations: 
   >   
   >    http://cgi.pathfinder.com/netly/opinion/0,1042,1731,00.html
   >      
   >   These rules were to take effect on February 15. Now, citing "concerns that
   >   have been voiced," the NASD has backed down and is considering changes.
   >   
   >   Score one for privacy, or at least a more cautious approach.

Damn, wish I could affect the real world too.

----

The "cautious approach" is simply ordering all employees
to send work-related email via the company systems.
---guy

   Where I can monitor it.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 01:49:20 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <4a7a63d6ddc3e466ede1e561740bd106@anon.efga.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I'm in El Paso Texas... so close to the border
I can see Old Mex outside my window as I write this..
I'm over there nearly every day for lunch ( I actually
walk there from my house it's so close) If I write
a crypto program on my laptop over there and ftp
it to a web page I have on a server outside the US
will I have avoided the foolish export regs??
Does anyone know of someone trying this before?? 






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: eureka@eureka.abc-web.com
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 02:25:25 -0800 (PST)
To: All Eureka! Subscribers: ;
Subject: Eureka! Fri Feb 13 '98
Message-ID: <19980213082113.26521.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: rdew@el.nec.com (Bob De Witt)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 10:08:48 -0800 (PST)
To: jmorris@intercode.com.au
Subject: Re: Trust
Message-ID: <199802131757.JAA09223@yginsburg.el.nec.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


James,

That one is easy.  NSA does not get all the recovery key info from stuff
developed in Australia.

On Fri, 13 Feb 1998 James Morris  wrote:
> 
> I'm just wondering if anyone else finds it particularly odd that while
> Australia is prepared to commit SAS troops, medical and intelligence
> personnel to a possible strike against Iraq, the US government still
> doesn't seem to trust us enough to use US developed cryptography
> products with adequate security.
> 
> - James.
> 
Bob De Witt,
rdew@el.nec.com

Opinions expressed are my own, and in no way relate to those of my employer,
or anyone else. -rdew




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 10:08:57 -0800 (PST)
To: Tim May 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980213100958.007ce970@otc.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 06:45 PM 2/12/98 -0800, Tim May wrote:
>At 5:01 PM -0800 2/12/98, James Morris wrote:
>>I'm just wondering if anyone else finds it particularly odd that while
>>Australia is prepared to commit SAS troops, medical and intelligence
>>personnel to a possible strike against Iraq, the US government still
>>doesn't seem to trust us enough to use US developed cryptography
>>products with adequate security.
>
>It's not at all odd.
>
>In the New World Order, you Aussies are children. 

Well, We don't let Aussies have guns, why should we trust them with our
cryptographic munitions?

Look, if you have a problem with US domination, just fax your complaints to 
your local Aussie officials.  Our Echelon people will forward 
it to us, no problem.












------------------------------------------------------------
      David Honig                   Orbit Technology
     honig@otc.net                  Intaanetto Jigyoubu

	Has Nike hired Monica to endorse kneepads yet?





	















From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: James Morris 
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 17:04:12 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Trust
Message-ID: <34E39B7C.ABBE7A6@intercode.com.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I'm just wondering if anyone else finds it particularly odd that while
Australia is prepared to commit SAS troops, medical and intelligence
personnel to a possible strike against Iraq, the US government still
doesn't seem to trust us enough to use US developed cryptography
products with adequate security.

- James.
--
James Morris





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 13:22:36 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: ruling on deceitful domain names
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980213132337.0079cb60@otc.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Seems a wee bit o' infowar is breaking out in the DNS...  

........................................

http://dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/technology/wired/story.html?s=n/reuters
/980213/wired/stories/domain_1.html

Friday February 13 2:17 PM EST 


 Planned Parenthood wins ruling in domain dispute

 By Jen Sullivan 

 SAN FRANCISCO (Wired) - In a decision that underscores the thorny and
ongoing issue of brand identity and domain names, the
 U.S. Second Court of Appeals upheld a preliminary injunction issued last
March that prevented the use of the plannedparenthood.com
 domain name for a personal anti-abortion Web site. 

 U.S. District Court Judge Kimba Wood ruled that there was "significant
likelihood" that the Web site by Richard Bucci of Syracuse,
 New York, would cause confusion among individuals seeking Planned
Parenthood's actual site, plannedparenthood.org. 

 The .com version has been placed "on hold" by Network Solutions Inc. (NSI)
and is not accessible to Web browsers. 

 Planned Parenthood general counsel Eve Paul lauded the decision. 

 "We aren't a big company that owns factories, we just have our name, and
women all over the country trust our name," Paul said. "We
 can't afford to let someone use it for their own political purposes." 

 Paul praised the court's finding that Bucci's use of the domain was
misleading. "When you went to that Web site, it said 'Welcome to
 the Planned Parenthood home page,"' said Paul. "It really had a very
negative effect on our ability to reach a great audience out there."

 In addition to espousing anti-abortion views, Bucci's site promoted his
friend's anti-abortion book. 

 Bucci, an anti-abortion activist who also hosts a local radio program
several times a week called "Catholic Hour," stopped using the
 disputed domain name after the judge issued her preliminary injunction,
but plans to fight the court's decision, taking appeals all the way
 to Supreme Court if possible. 

 "Do you remember General Patton? We're going to continue to hold Planned
Parenthood by the nose and kick them in the derriere,"
 Bucci said. 

 Though pleased with the end result, Paul expressed dismay over the slow
speed of the process, first with NSI, and then with the
 ensuing legal action. 

 "Network Solutions was very slow," said Paul. "If they had been available,
it certainly would have been cheaper. 

 "Our trademark lawyer wrote them a letter, and they sent back a very
bureaucratic response, saying that we hadn't crossed our T's
 and dotted our I's. We went to court but that turned out to be a longer
process than we had hoped," she said. 

 Network Solutions' stated policy is that they do not arbitrate in
trademark infringement cases. 

 "What insanity has gotten into the minds of the people when they think of
domain names and the Internet," said David Graves, director
 of business affairs at NSI. "What mechanism does the Newspaper Association
of America have in place when an advertiser infringes
 on a trademark in an advertisement? They don't have separate mechanisms." 

 Stanton McCandlish, program director of the Electronic Frontier Federation
(EFF), agreed that trademark infringement is purely a legal
 issue. 

 "NSI has not been doing a very good job," McCandlish said. "They lose
registrations, things get screwed up. But trademark is a big
 open issue. I don't think that anyone can expect NSI to solve that one.
Lawsuits are inevitable. There is not any way to get to heart of
 the matter." 

 Paul said Planned Parenthood was in the process of acquiring the
"plannedparenthood.com" domain name. 

------------------------------------------------------------
      David Honig                   Orbit Technology
     honig@otc.net                  Intaanetto Jigyoubu

	Has Nike hired Monica to endorse kneepads yet?





	















From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 10:19:47 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Letter of the law
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


>I'm in El Paso Texas... so close to the border
>I can see Old Mex outside my window as I write this..
>I'm over there nearly every day for lunch ( I actually
>walk there from my house it's so close) If I write
>a crypto program on my laptop over there and ftp
>it to a web page I have on a server outside the US
>will I have avoided the foolish export regs??
>Does anyone know of someone trying this before?? 

My guess is this:
  if it has the name of a US citizen in the copyright
notice, it will be assumed to have been made in the
US. if the morons even go after you. you still may have
a plausable excuse if ever taken to court.
after all, you "exported" youself, which is a perfectly
legal thing to take out of the country, and "yourself"
accidentally spewed a copy of something that couldn't
cross the border.
I don't think anybody has tried this and been challenged.
then again, a lot of us don't have the opportunity.
It's easier to ask forgivness than permission...
Another easier excuse would be to publish it freely in
hardcopy form, and just "happen" to have somebody end up
"typing" in your source code abroad, making a legit
international copy...
-Anon2





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Formosa 
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 20:48:36 -0800 (PST)
To: James Morris 
Subject: Re: Trust
In-Reply-To: <34E39B7C.ABBE7A6@intercode.com.au>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On Fri, 13 Feb 1998, James Morris wrote:

> I'm just wondering if anyone else finds it particularly odd that while
> Australia is prepared to commit SAS troops, medical and intelligence
> personnel to a possible strike against Iraq

Nope you haven't relised that the austrailian goverment is the well
trained lap dog of amirica.  Always ready to roll over and get screwed by
the USA.

> , the US government still
> doesn't seem to trust us enough to use US developed cryptography
> products with adequate security.

Of cause not, who would turst a subordermate with such things.  Of cause
we have devoloped softwhere (like SSLeay) that works just as well as any
from the US.  But we can't export something to au because the US is so
much more advansted then us, so we can't be trusted with such products.

- -- 
Please excuse my spelling as I suffer from agraphia see the url in my header. 
Never trust a country with more peaple then sheep.  ex-net.scum and proud
You Say To People "Throw Off Your Chains" And They Make New Chains For
Themselves? --Terry Pratchett.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3i
Charset: noconv

iQCVAwUBNOO60KQK0ynCmdStAQGDowQA061yXNcatlVY+541pJltHUBMJ/2ebrZi
M76FSTGLVL/CsNw5xWKWPlmSKYHwp997NLaG+9nrE8QwFF25CiF6QQEjnxNo8E0W
sAv0lCRnXgmnIKaQjn1T8D3mrUXTQA7kCBmVvGuyLKsu7D9RuG5a+lvup/XRijQI
dHcRnNMt6bk=
=UKQp
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "http://musicblvd.com/" 
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 17:09:12 -0800 (PST)
To: musicblvd@sparklist.com
Subject: The New Music Boulevard
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980213144310.007a0a90@mail.sparknet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ? the Platypus {aka David Formosa} 
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 22:21:09 -0800 (PST)
To: Tim May 
Subject: Re: Sabotaging Australian Involvement in Bill's War
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Tim May wrote:

[...]

> (Seriously, what the holy fuck are you Aussies doing getting involved in
> our Moral Leader's vanity war with Saddam?

Our goverment has this quite silly beleafe that if we tag allong with all
your wars, when we get attacked the great Amiracan peaple will come to our
aid out of a sence of appreashation.

The flaw with this is that most amaricans don't know where australia is,
let allown care about it.

- -- 
Please excuse my spelling as I suffer from agraphia see the url in my header. 
Never trust a country with more peaple then sheep.  ex-net.scum and proud
You Say To People "Throw Off Your Chains" And They Make New Chains For
Themselves? --Terry Pratchett.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3i
Charset: noconv

iQCVAwUBNOPQT6QK0ynCmdStAQEOowQAs/Ao0oCGsghLLk0VDKuzTQg5gO2k5KTq
KJPWpA1OAuRlgJQ7f4/Jk27DLCbXbf+semjCpNpUp32nFbQ8/FBSWNH56KY/AU1r
ixL165Da4c8pmAQdjvftU0eZMw5Ob23AMIsX6/v/7bhaWUWmFi225Uc179wY0QmK
0poJWHvaJAw=
=8M++
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 14:01:48 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: The Doctor has been spanked!!!
Message-ID: <199802132201.RAA11745@panix2.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


As of 1pm today:

#   Guy,
#    
#   Thank you for the supporting documentation you've provided.
#    
#   Dr. Dimitry V's PSINet service has been terminated.

...he called one person too many a 'pedophile'.
---guy




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Paul Bradley 
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 12:19:49 -0800 (PST)
To: Anonymous 
Subject: Re: your mail
In-Reply-To: <4a7a63d6ddc3e466ede1e561740bd106@anon.efga.org>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> I'm in El Paso Texas... so close to the border
> I can see Old Mex outside my window as I write this..
> I'm over there nearly every day for lunch ( I actually
> walk there from my house it's so close) If I write
> a crypto program on my laptop over there and ftp
> it to a web page I have on a server outside the US
> will I have avoided the foolish export regs??
> Does anyone know of someone trying this before?? 


Well, how do you plan on ftping it, if you use a PCMCIA modem car and a  
cellular phone and the cell it transmits to is in the US it could be 
argued that you exported crypto because the data went 
mexico->USA->elsewhere, however, using a normal land-line would be 
totally legal, having said that the program would have to be written 
outside the US, not just carried out on a laptop then ftp`d as otherwise 
you`ve exported. Overall I would recomment flouting the export laws, as 
jumping through hoops to obey these regulations merely panders to the 
wishes of the authorities, anyway, how likely do you think you are to get 
caught? 

        Datacomms Technologies data security
       Paul Bradley, Paul@fatmans.demon.co.uk
  Paul@crypto.uk.eu.org, Paul@cryptography.uk.eu.org    
       Http://www.cryptography.home.ml.org/
      Email for PGP public key, ID: FC76DA85
     "Don`t forget to mount a scratch monkey"

 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: webmaster@UnixSysAdmin.com
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 19:10:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: UnixSysAdmin.com Registration
Message-ID: <199802140308.TAA22118@hawaii.>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Thanks for registering with UnixSysAdmin.com

Your Login Name is: cypherpunks
(Login names are CASE SENSITIVE.)
Your Password is: tt22117 

You can now follow this link back to TechTalk: 
http://www.UnixSysAdmin.com/enter.htm 

WARNING: If your username contains spaces or special characters, your login will *not* work!





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:41:28 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: BXA, UK Ban, McCain-Kerrey
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980214004354.009d3ccc@pop.pipeline.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


In response to Greg Broiles' and Ulf  Möller's posts and the 
prospect of a UK ban on non-escrowed encryption next Tuesday:


                       Opening Address
             Under Secretary William A. Reinsch   
               Bureau of Export Administration   
                 U.S. Department of Commerce
                       Update West 98   
                  Los Angeles, California    
                      February 10, 1998

[Excerpt]

Encryption

One of the reasons why our licensing load is inching back up 
is the transfer of encryption licensing to Commerce earlier 
this year. No speech from me would be complete without a 
paragraph on encryption, so here it is. 

Our policy is intended to balance the competing interests of 
privacy, electronic commerce, law enforcement, and national 
security. We believe that use of key recovery technologies is 
the best way to achieve that balance. We do not focus narrowly 
on a single technology or approach. We expect the market to 
make those judgments, but we are taking steps to facilitate the 
development and dissemination of these products.

Our regulations allow recoverable encryption products of any 
strength and key length to be exported freely after a single 
review by the government. To encourage movement toward recoverable 
products, we have also created a special, two-year liberalization 
period during which companies may export 56 bit DES or equivalent 
products provided they submit plans to develop key recovery 
products. This provides an incentive for manufacturers to develop 
these products, which in turn will facilitate the development of 
key management infrastructures. So far, we have approved 47 plans, 
from companies large and small, and have five more pending.

In terms of licenses, in calendar year 1997, we received 2076 
applications, and approved 1801 licenses with a dollar value of 
$4.7 billion. (The reason for the high dollar value is because we 
approve encryption licensing arrangements for extended periods of 
time, from 4 to 10 years.)

The interagency working group on cryptography policy, which 
includes representatives from BXA, NSA, and the FBI, continue to 
meet to discuss ways to streamline the licensing process on 
encryption export licenses. Several items have been identified and 
progress is being made in these areas. We have established a 
pre-Operating Committee group to discuss contentious cases. In 
part as a result, no encryption cases have been escalated to the 
OC since mid-December. We have created an Autolist to eliminate 
agency referrals. So far, we have agreed to list specific products 
amounting to 20% of the products we see. This means, once 
implemented, that a subset of licenses can be processed by 
Commerce without prior referral to other agencies. Finally, we 
have posted on our web page "helpful hints" to make the 
encryption licensing process more transparent: 

  http://www.bxa.doc.gov/encguide.htm

We continue to work on other initiatives to streamline the process.

We are also discussing with our trading partners a common approach 
to encryption policy. We have found that most major producing 
countries have public safety and national security concerns similar 
to ours. We are working together with these governments to ensure 
that our policies are compatible, and that they facilitate the 
emergence of a key management infrastructure.

With respect to legislation, we believe the McCain-Kerrey Bill, 
S. 909, the Secure Public Networks Act, provides a sound basis for 
legislation acceptable to both Congress and the Administration. In 
particular, we appreciate the bill's explicit recognition of the 
need to balance competing objectives and of the potential for key 
recovery to become a market-driven mechanism to facilitate 
maintaining that balance. 

...

[Other excerpts of speeches by BXA officials at the seminar:]

Encryption Controls

Export Enforcement has new responsibilities in the encryption area. 
Over the past year, Export Enforcement has opened many new 
investigations involving alleged violations of the encryption 
regulations. These cases are being watched very closely. The 
national security of the United States depends in part on the 
government's ability to obtain timely information about the 
activities and plans of potentially hostile foreign parties, 
such as terrorists and drug dealers. 

... the Department of Justice and National Security Agency 
participate in processing licenses for encryption. ... The 
increase in licenses we are experiencing is attributable not only 
to increased exports, but to transfer of items from the Munitions 
List to Commerce jurisdiction. Encryption licenses account for a 
significant portion of the increase. We created a special division 
to handle those. As of today, there is only one encryption case 
that has been pending over 40 days.

-----

For full speeches: http://jya.com/bxa-west98.htm





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Q" 
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 19:46:29 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: Q
Message-ID: <19980214034036.AAA6656@telcel.telcel.net.ve>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Whats up?




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Q" 
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 19:46:26 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: Q
Message-ID: <19980214034036.AAB6656@telcel.telcel.net.ve>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary..3989.1071713779.multipart/mixed"

--Boundary..3989.1071713779.multipart/mixed
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hi to all the teens out there

--Boundary..3989.1071713779.multipart/mixed
Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="bin00001.bin"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="bin00001.bin"
Content-Description: "Q1.txt.pgp (PGP Encrypted File)"

qANQR1DBwk4DAkofdiJa+asQC/0bJjIsgOOWotdJc6zgODRvHGpgDD1v4li3
LQ5Vj+cJFZq+I0XuuoqBPFB3GxFp+jT64rbzas5ZmdlmIxCuBtxxM6bnzlqi
4qLWWjhRatS+ysAa83ZJ9GaJ0EfWaoGrB61gK4S1+aaRcoILvaPDUUEmVwxH
WCh6Jz0N3RMX083KYLokktlYd10/g6r6SGurWdzeNmYIv8ZWbawRySaOvQEc
ntYmmCdrZAxBwmKVsrMmtih15Z43LYRF8jQg/J8ubwGgpglmaDq+IExvMUk8
0sKc2UiEFjJUotrXaIcFyMsrCCknZYCAQnN69AJZCJiUivHscTpcfzqmfzy6
BCqj+mD4EVFUdx1ZKaxcRTCimAowfBTbnZgDunWoeyklp44E0bhLwnr5MhVt
7HFO8XEDMeBKe4prPUFwbLPWV+PAVbLfxH0qjrwoldKF9tBtNwn27yG5/Hl9
Ff9N2O6jkYIN83tLG0EbFlidZforDMDr2Z6VImgeTwfw2QfvtGhP+zWBWxwL
/0zy1qTDe8yrEeMhtzZGjL4GDreBqq5LyAyijs7rREp80lyLbuTB9Taloz8n
ttL0V5plh/VLkQ0CODXf9AYwuSMMyqRpi8sBJ7GO7v7Bi8iXArPWQUn1n0lK
7I1njzIEGqKjV/F6mf3UT/rjzRNAL8oYNFtq5X2hpI+NBE2uxW0B4FuhSoIt
xn5hTzWC2vdHf3RLiQ6tf2vf6j5sT8XixMQcXvxsWDO5Iq6sshWRsFFzyETT
DNQjIk3w5Zxc7PO7ZGyNSzI/YSNlG3xJul5RZPHbrX4Vj2UaGB7gXONG7zmq
FdPCkI2Z7XqEd2+X10bD8M47bNuO+L/04Mx6fn1fLrkA2rmuznawvU0mJLFr
zfq1/GBS2X777SF51IZqMOzeGav6zS0eiVXplqrltDNxb25chZ9uvR8evC4Z
+4/fF95sA1o2WFX++kye4Vc41tCnGQztvnrCDObe3ISY0EctMWnmb4bZMNH4
5opcjrNT1bTN0qbqaGIedR6W2149YxbnGMmgOTjElWammYEWai2iNAt+vb58
z6+9JPuw7IzRxrfh1Vt6hNszaokarPNssGv+IwxEKIcWj3EZDPFcN2q9FQTx
qacT6PSjdnVUia/AlHzlV0AWtKgvIw83VFGKI5QqADPly6MsuZu6oDdATLHP
PY2LgMEFtsU8L2w3dZzjv9wD1hfhZgjPyYhEevsM1Mpcscivwn8ATfMUFLdo
6Xq67UmzPw==
--Boundary..3989.1071713779.multipart/mixed--



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ulf@fitug.de (Ulf =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=F6ller?=)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 15:41:23 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: UK Crypto Ban?
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19980212001956.00b27e4c@pop.pipeline.com>
Message-ID: <9802132341.AA78212@public.uni-hamburg.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


>The Government will propose creating a network of what are called
>Trusted Third Parties, or TTPs.

Britain is now trying to establish the infamous GCHQ protocol as the
ETSI standard for "Trusted Third Parties".  Ulrich Sandl (who
represents the German ministry of economics on crypto issues at
international conferences etc.) wrote on the Krypto mailing list that
the German and other delegations have protested in the last minute.
The German standards proposal does not contain key escrow.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "James A. Donald" 
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 00:51:59 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Beating the UK Crypto ban.
Message-ID: <199802140851.AAA01341@proxy4.ba.best.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


    --
Supposedly the UK is not going to prohibit cryptography, the
kindly and benevolent government is merely going to protect
us from irresponsible certificate authorities by licensing
the issue of certificates.

Thus in theory the ban should not affect Crypto Kong, which 
does not rely on certificates, does not attempt to address
the question of which Bob is the real Bob.

Instead it merely checks that the Bob who signed one letter 
is the same Bob as the Bob who signed the other letter.

(And you can make an encrypted reply to any signed document)


    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     CK7qsZEkDlKWk1tmxpi8TmOY5r7pCmwM+xlgxk5x
     4pFtHUXCAe4Hr1r3Zj40b35HrJbyCKusv0OUOt/Yo
 ---------------------------------------------------------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because of 
the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this right, 
not from the arbitrary power of the state.

http://www.jim.com/jamesd/





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: moneyman@tagentp.com
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 14:20:12 -0800 (PST)
To: moneyman@tagentp.com
Subject: !!!!!! ATTENTION !!!!!
Message-ID: <199802140751.CAA19986@tagentp.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
This Message was Composed using Extractor Pro Bulk E- Mail Software. If 
you wish to be removed from this advertiser's future mailings, please reply 
with the subject "Remove" and this software will automatically block you 
from their future mailings.
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ken Williams 
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 01:19:44 -0800 (PST)
To: Cypherpunks 
Subject: Microsoft says it's spying on you....
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



"Microsoft says it's spying on you with only the purest of intentions. At
least for now..."

http://www.mojones.com/mother_jones/JF98/blow.html 

TATTOOMAN 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ken Williams 
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 01:27:34 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Letter of the law
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Fri, 13 Feb 1998, Anonymous wrote:

>>I'm in El Paso Texas... so close to the border
>>I can see Old Mex outside my window as I write this..
>>I'm over there nearly every day for lunch ( I actually
>>walk there from my house it's so close) If I write
>>a crypto program on my laptop over there and ftp
>>it to a web page I have on a server outside the US
>>will I have avoided the foolish export regs??
>>Does anyone know of someone trying this before?? 
>
>My guess is this:
>  if it has the name of a US citizen in the copyright
>notice, it will be assumed to have been made in the
>US. if the morons even go after you. you still may have
>a plausable excuse if ever taken to court.
>after all, you "exported" youself, which is a perfectly
>legal thing to take out of the country, and "yourself"
>accidentally spewed a copy of something that couldn't
>cross the border.
>I don't think anybody has tried this and been challenged.
>then again, a lot of us don't have the opportunity.
>It's easier to ask forgivness than permission...
>Another easier excuse would be to publish it freely in
>hardcopy form, and just "happen" to have somebody end up
>"typing" in your source code abroad, making a legit
>international copy...
>-Anon2

i would think that the big question here, legally, is whether or not you
would be ustilizing a US ISP and/or cellular provider to make the upload
of the crypto program to the foreign server via ftp.  as long as all the
packets stay outside of US borders, in other words, as long as you don't
use a US ISP and cellular provider, then i don't see how you would be
violating any laws in this case.

Regards,

TATTOOMAN 

http://152.7.11.38/~tattooman/





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 03:26:53 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Cypherpunk Policeman?
Message-ID: <199802141126.GAA12507@panix2.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


   >   From attila@hun.org Sat Feb 14 03:53:19 1998
   >   To: Information Security ,
   >           cypherpunks 
   >   Cc: listproc 
   >   Subject: Bye, Bye, Guy [was The Doctor has been spanked!!!]
   >   X-Comment: Cyberspace is Our Freedom!  Your CDA is Dead!
   >   
   >   -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
   >   
   >       well, I hope you're real proud of yourself for being the 
   >       new cypherpunk policeman.

It had nothing to do with the cypherpunks per se,
and the majority of the documentation was from Usenet.

   >       ...just like we're all real
   >       proud to know a true snitch who thinks his dirty hands
   >       are bright white and his deeds are pure as the driven 
   >       snow while he censors free speech.

Huh?

I'm just a pissed-off white guy.

And what makes you think Vulis will
not continue to post to the list?

You clearly HAVE NO IDEA WHAT JUST HAPPENED.

Comeback when you figure out the complexities of feedback.

   >       John Gilmore tried to be the censor last year....

Information Security has no idea why the list owner didn't succeed.

Detweiler my ass.

   >       Pat Buchannan and ol' Senator Exon will surely be happy 
   >       to see you.

Buchannan can bite me, and Exon was an old fart who never used the
Internet, yet proposed CDA as the law of the land.

   >       dont forget F{reeh,uck} is counting on your
   >       vote for mandatory GAK and KRAP.

Louis Freeh has the morals of a styrofoam cup, and GAK will
happen over my dead body. You've obviously never read my CM.

----

PSINet terminated Vulis for stalking, which I
documented he did to a minimum of four people.

It took me three traffic analysis reports to convince them.

"Fire One" was a success.
---guy

   KRAP? key recovery and poopies?



   >   
   >       I figured anyone active in cp would know how to filter,
   >       or at least know where the delete key is on his
   >       keyboard; but, on the hand, maybe I should not expect 
   >       so much from some of the posters with proven first 
   >       amendment ignorance and intolerance.
   >   
   >       you really gotta blow it out, to make my filter to the
   >       great bit bucket in fiery brimstone  --you did. 
   >   
   >   
   >   on or about 980213:1701, in <199802132201.RAA11745@panix2.panix.com>, 
   >       Information Security  was purported to have 
   >       expostulated to perpetuate an opinion:
   >   
   >   >As of 1pm today:
   >   
   >   >#   Guy,
   >   >#    
   >   >#   Thank you for the supporting documentation you've provided. #    
   >   >#   Dr. Dimitry V's PSINet service has been terminated.
   >   
   >   >...he called one person too many a 'pedophile'.
   >   >---guy
   >   
   >   
   >   -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
   >   Version: 2.6.3i
   >   Charset: latin1
   >   Comment: No safety this side of the grave. Never was; never will be
   >   
   >   iQBVAwUBNOVa/LR8UA6T6u61AQHkMQH+OXg9mdu967ZX98RFLC0L2SvKgafFZliW
   >   s4OtdIjj9SRvizeBhesto7IRRtY5v/SXMAJDhLM9KuCP7eShtc0HzQ==
   >   =RFDZ
   >   -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
   >   
   >   




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 42197929@ix.netcom.com
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 05:29:45 -0800 (PST)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: Pharmaceutical, Biotech, & Laboratory Companies
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Pharmaceutical, Biotech, & Laboratories throughout the world 
use lyophilization (freeze-drying) equipment for preservation, 
concentration, and product development concepts.  Until now the
costs to employ this technology have been extremely high and 
operation has been complicated.

Ultra-Dry freeze-dryers are cost efficient, user friendly, 
portable and affordable.  These freeze-dryers are the answer to 
your needs from simple drying requirements to sterile product
development, packaging and validation.

If this information is applicable to another department in your 
organization please forward.

Explore the possibilities and click here at 
http://www.freezedry.com/html/upage1.html




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: eureka@eureka.abc-web.com
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 03:24:08 -0800 (PST)
To: All Eureka! Subscribers: ;
Subject: Eureka! Sat Feb 14 '98
Message-ID: <19980214083435.28655.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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============================================================
TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS NEWSLETTER,  USE THE REPLY FUNCTION
IN YOUR EMAIL PROGRAM, AND SEND THIS EMAIL RIGHT BACK TO US.
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Global Web Builders 
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 18:03:13 -0800 (PST)
To: (Recipient list suppressed)
Subject: Pauline Hanson's Newsletter
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980214002657.006d4090@mail.pronet.net.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Issue 1.7, February 1998

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
PLEASE NOTE: No unsolicited email is sent. If you do not want to be on the
mailing list please say "REMOVE" in the subject line and return this message
in the body.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear supporters in NSW,

You may not have seen the recent article in the Australian Financial Review
(3rd Feb 1998). Here is a short summary.

The subject is political donations:

Over 90% of loans (or $4,650,000) to the Liberal Party have been made by one
body -  the Greenfields Foundation. This organisation has strong links with
the Liberal Party's funding vehicle, the Free Enterprise Foundation which
was caught out in the 1995 crackdown of the disclosure law. The post box of
both is the same and the trustee of the Free Enterprise Foundation since
1981, Tony Bandle, responded to the Australian Electoral's Enquiries about
disclosures by the Greenfields Foundation.

The Greenfields Foundation has 'lent' the Liberal Party over 80% of its
total donations to avoid disclosing just who the donors to Greenfields are.

We know that most large donations received by both the Liberal and
Australian Labor Party are from multinationals - the benefactors of the
multilateral agreement on investment (MAI) (eg Village Roadshow over
$200,000; ANZ Bank over $100,000). 

Benefactors of the MAI, like media giant News Limited, have gone out of
their way to try to close down donations to One Nation by alleging large
commissions and rewards for One Nation National Director David Ettridge. 

These claims are false and have one aim - to financially cripple Pauline
Hanson's One Nation while multinationals quietly throw hundreds of thousands
of dollars at the major parties to support their next federal campaign - one
would be a fool to believe there is no contra.

Meanwhile, the Liberal Party have refused to return over $50,000 to me after
my win in the seat of Oxley. Most of the money would be used by me to
benefit the Oxley electorate. See my on-line press release for full details:

http://www.gwb.com.au/onenation/press/130298a.html 

Finally, on the subject of political donations it should come therefore as
no surprise that both Kim Beazley and John Howard's foreign minister
Alexander Downer have said that 'MAI is good for Australia'.

Please visit:

http://www.gwb.com.au/mai.html

and be the judge.

We desperately need your donations to ensure that One Nation can present a
strong case at the next Federal Election. We are calling on 'people power' -
that's you - to help us by making a donation, no matter how small it is
important. 

If you believe, like I do that Australia has got to be turned around what
cost can be too  much for the sake of our children and their children?

Please contact the Manly office on (02) 9976 0283 or complete and return the
donation form at:

http://www.gwb.com.au/onenation/funds.html

For those of you who are members of Pauline Hanson's One Nation we are
holding a celebration of the party's first anniversary over the Easter
Weekend (April 10-12) on my rural property near Ipswich in South East
Queensland. In true Australian style camping and bar-b-ques under the
starlit sky will be the order of the day. There will be competitions,
entertainment like bush dancing, karaoke and horse racing - and much, much
more. 

If you are interested please contact (07) 3369 8214, 3848 2197, 3399 6662 or
3399 6901 for details.

Costs range from $25 per day for adults or just $45 for the three. Families
from $55 for the one day to $85 for the three.

Book before you put this one in your diary (limited numbers)!


Finally important Internet addresses:

Pauline Hanson's One Nation:
http://www.gwb.com.au/onenation

One Nation Press Releases (about 10 in the last month):
http://www.gwb.com.au/onenation/press/




Pauline Hanson





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Dr. Alan Sherman" 
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 09:44:27 -0800 (PST)
To: Crypto Announce 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


   The UMBC Security Technology Research Group presents

     A Law-Enforcement Perspective on Encryption Policy

			Barry Smith
	       Supervisory Special Agent, FBI

	    moderated by journalist Peter Wayner

		      3:30pm - 5:00pm
		   Friday, March 6, 1998
		      Lecture Hall III
	       University of Maryland, Baltimore County
    http://www.cs.umbc.edu/events/spring98/crypto.shtml

The second lecture and discussion in a two-part forum on
encryption policy.  Journalist Peter Wayner will introduce
and moderate the event, which is free and open to the
public.  In Part I, freedom activist John Gilmore and Fritz
Fielding (Ex-Associate General Councel, NSA) gave their
divergent views, focusing on the Burnstein case.

Barry Smith will articulate the needs of law enforcement to
conduct lawful wiretaps; he will advocate the use of
key-recovery techniques to achieve this end as a way that
provides adequate privacy to law-abiding citizens.

Schedule: The event will begin with a brief (10 minute)
introduction by Peter Wayner.  Following Barry Smith's talk,
which will last approximately 45 minutes, there will be an
opportunity to ask questions for approximately 20-30
minutes.

Questions: Attendees are encouraged to ask questions in
advance by sending email to sherman@cs.umbc.edu

Directions: Take Exit #47B off interstate I-95 and follow
signs to UMBC.  LH III is in the Administration Building,
adjacent visitor's parking lot near the I-95 entrance to
UMBC.  

Host: Dr. Alan T. Sherman
      Associate Professor, Computer Science
      sherman@cs.umbc.edu
      http://www.umbc.edu
      (410) 455-2666

     This event is held in cooperation with the UMBC
	       Intellectual Sports Council
		       Honors College
	       Phi Beta Kappa honors society
                   CMSC Council of Majors
		   IFSM Council of Majors





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ah1261@aol.com
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 13:23:23 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: crackers
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I WOULD LIKE SOME INFO ON PASSWORD CRACKERS EMAIL ME BACK A.S.A.P.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Tanner 
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 19:56:07 -0800 (PST)
To: CYBERTELECOM-L@listserv.aol.com
Subject: Seeking Paper Submissions
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980215035640.006bcb5c@nersp.nerdc.ufl.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


The Journal of Technology Law & Policy an online journal devoted to the
discussion of the legal issues concerning technology is requesting article
submissions for our upcomming issue.  We invite anyone who has an article of
original work discussing a legal issue which pertians to any aspect of
high-technology (communciation technology, copyright, trademark, patent,
software, y2k conerns, internet issues) to submit the article for
consideration for publication in our journal.  Relevant graphics audio and
video may be utilized.  

There is no length limitations for submissions.  All citations should
conform to The Bluebook: A Uniform System of Citation 16th. ed.  Please
include the URL of any cited information available online.  

Interested writers should send 2 hard copys of thier article as well as a
digitized copy in either Wordperfect 6.1 or MS Word 97 format to the
following address:
        Journal of Technology Law and Policy
        University of Florida College of Law
       PO Box 117640
       Gainesville, FL 32611-7640
       USA
If you have any questions please feel free to contact us at (352)392-0261.
>>
>





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Toto 
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 22:24:41 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Space Aliens Hide My Drugs / Prologue (1/0)
Message-ID: <3.0.5.16.19980214232237.3d37b8ec@mailhost.sk.sympatico.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


	____________________________________
	SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS !!!???!!!
  	____________________________________
		by The Author
			Copyright 2000, The Lost Planet Airmen

PROLOGUE:
--------
  I was very young as a dark and stormy Knight...

[Author's Note: This part of the prologue is numbered 1-of-0 because there is,
 in reality, no telling how long, wide and far I may or may not ramble in 
 telling a tale which lies deep inside of me and cries out to be told, despite
 the rapid degeneration of what little is left of my nervous system, my brain
 function, and my sanity in general.
 As well, after a lifetime of using an overwhelming excess of commas in my
 sagacious scribblings and blitheful blatherings, I am well aware that commas
 do not grow on trees (except for cherry trees, and they are upside down--thus
 of no use to a scribe such as myself) and that this account of tales untold
 since the beginning of time (1949, in my universe) may well end in
mid-sentence
 when I have used the last of the commas that I have purloined, stolen and
 hoarded, over the years, is removed from my secret hiding place and placed on
 the written page.
 Hopefully, before this has come to pass, I will have managed to reveal all of
 the myriad of universal secrets which have remained hidden in plain sight of
 us all (particularly George Carlin), since the founding of the universe, and
 the final comma that marks the end of my wisdom will mark the beginning of a
 new universal ignorance, in which all shall finally know that there *is*no*
 knowledge*, and that "The ClueServer died for our sins".]

 
The Death of gomez and the Birth of Magical Thinking:
  I am the Prophet...
  It's not something I'm proud of, and I in no way planned for things to turn
out this way, but the role of Unerring Prophet of the Future of All Mankind
was forced on me by circumstances beyond my control.
  Originally, I was just trying to be a brain-warped, cynical asshole--doing
my best to stir up shit, cause trouble, spreadFear/Uncertainty/Disinformation
to the best of my ability, and maintain a conscientiously applied plan of good
oral hygene. ("Thank you. I'm feeling much better, now.)

  I've been crazy all of my life, having suffered serious brain injury as a 
child, and compounding this natural disaster by a willful ingestion of a
variety
of legal and illegal substances designed to enrich pharmacists and people with
dark skin tones who spend much of their time on dimly-lit street corners.
  There are those who read my apparently mad ramblings and assume that I am
some kind of creative writing genius heavily influenced by Hunter S. Thompson,
Carlos Castenada, Stephen King and William Burrogh's Jr. They are wrong.
  As gomez himself said, before being removed as the eternal symbol of the
true Digerati, the Circle of Eunuchs, "We don't make it up, we just make it
better."
  Thus, when I describe the series of ElectroShock treatments that I underwent
under the care of Dr. Abram Hoffer (the Father of Megavitamin Therapy), and 
describe them as taking place at the exact same moment as the massive power
blackouts throughout the NorthEastern United States and Canada, the details
I provide may not be accurate within the time-space continuum, but they will
be totally consistent with the Ultimate and Eternal Truth as evidenced by the
True Measure of Reality--the electrical bill from SaskPower Corporation that
was presented to Central Hospital in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, which ultimately
resulted in the restructuring of the Saskatchewan MediCare system, and the
loss
of many lives that could have otherwise been saved if the medical profession
had not deemed it necessary to store within my brain enough electricity to
create a thousand FrankenSteins, or power the bright lights of Las Vegas for
a hundred years, in the case of an emergency.

  Hyperbole? Guess again, shit-for-brains...
  Anyone who has read "The News of the Weird" by Chuck Shephard can vouch for
the fact that the crap that backs up in my demented brain cells, until it
spills
out like a toxic efflusive onto the written page, could not carry the
jock-strap
of the events which happen every day, in real life, far removed from the
short-
circuting electrical malfunctions spewing forth from my damaged brain
synapses.

  I am the Prophet...
  I am a certified lunatic bouncing wildly back and forth between reality and
rational thought <--> magical thinking fueled by messages from Mars which I
receive hourly via the silver fillings in my decaying dentures <--> logical
assumptions based on the patterns formed by rat-droppings I use to encrypt
my writings with the same algorithms used as the basis for C2Net's Stonghold
encryption software.

  In all honesty, I have to admit that I was lying when I presented myself to
WebWorld at large as the TruthMonger.
  But, "The best laid plans of rats and men..."

  My poor self-image, my low self-esteem, and the knowledge that I had come
by them honestly, drove me to a state where I was determined to live out my
life as a lying, thieving, conniving, rat-bastard-piece-of-shit who would crap
on and distort the truth about everything that normal, decent people hold
sacred in their lives.
  So I used my computer skills, my limitless supply of amphetamines, and my
powers of obsessive-compulsive, psychotic fixation to rail madly against 
the surrounding hordes of men and women of reason who strove to suffocate the
madness that I was destined from birth to manifest on the long and twisted
road which would ultimately lead to my emergence as the Anti-Christ who would
raze the complete face of the earth with violent spasms of death and
destruction
the likes of which the universe has never seen.

  "It's life's illusions I recall...I really don't know life, at all."
~Joni Mitchell
  "All my lies are true...and everything I do, I really am."
~Carroll
  "Some say he's good...some say he's great...some just say, 'It's a *shame*
about that boy.'"
~Sonny King, introducing C.J.Parker, the King of Country Porno, at Club Foot
 in Austin, Texas, at a benefit for Xalapeno Charlie.

  In the end, I reached spiritual enlightenment through the realization that
Satan, the Evil One, the Anti-Christ, Bill Gates, Louis Freeh, Janet Reno, can
never hope to even remotely approach the depths of depravity, outrageous
licentiousness and lunacy, or sick and twisted dementia exhibited daily by
the average Jane and Joe smiling at us from the other side of the bank
manager's
desk, or the check-out counter at the local K-Mart.
  No matter how depraved the sick, demented spewings from my evil mind became,
attempting to poison the minds of all who came into contact with my evil,
satanic blatherings, masquerading as a true mirror of the reality that
surrounds
us--in the end, I was, am, and will continue to be...TruthMonger.

  I am the Prophet...
  If my sick, twisted mind concocts some bizarre, depraved fantasy about Lisa
Bonet Ramsey's rotting carcass rising from a roadside ditch to plug parking
meters and being flown by the Cincinnati Police Department to New York City
to carry out Judge Ito's sentence of having a toilet plunger shoved up her
ass, then one of two things will happen.
  Either CNN will break the story, exactly as I have described it, minutes
before my missive shows up on the InterNet, or I will receive the lastest
email version of "News of the Weird,"l from SaskPower Corporation that
was presented to Central Hospital in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, which ultimately
resulted in the restructuring of the Saskatchewan MediCare system, and the
loss
of many lives that could have otherwise been saved if the med as standing at the bleeding edge of
the burdgeoning computer technology which is rapidly changing the face of our
planet and the governmental, civil, and social societies encompassed within
this celestial orb.
  Harbingers of the Digital Future / Pioneers of Future Technology / etc.,
etc.
  Bullshit...
  The CypherPunks are rag-tag band of infantile, pseudo-anarchistic, pseudo-
cryptic, well-educated shit-disturbers who take great pleasure in pissing on
themselves, each other, and the world around them--all the while, covering
their motivations and ambitions with high-sounding ideals intended to disguise
the fact that none of them ever received proper toilet-training.

  The end result?
  No matter how high they pile it, how far they spread it, or how badly it 
smells when you step in it, they end up coming off as the Henry Kissinger's
of CyberSpace, because no matter how much rotten meat, jalapenos and moldy
cheese they eat, they can never manage to crap out anything so vile and foul-
smelling that the world-at-large cannot prove prophetic in MeatSpace.

Question for Blanc Weber (CypherPunks version of the Sweetheart of the Rodeo):
  Yes, Blanc, I am the one who was hiding in the bushes near the gravesites
when you were laying the wreaths in honor of Mother Teresa and the children
who were the 'victims' of the Oklahoma Federal Building bombing. Yes, that
was me who was whistling the eerie medely of "Psycho Killer" and "Street 
Fighting Man" while you were busy trying to honor the souls of the 'innocents'
who died for the sin of being born.
  Realizing that we are polar-opposites, I am willing to concede that perhaps
Eternal Truth, True Justice and A Noble Ideal To Be Named Later might best be
served if you and I met in the middle and acted in concert to do what must
inevitably be done to balance the distorted energy of the Tao which is
currently
tearing our planet, our socities and our individuals to pieces.

  I am ready now...when will you be ready?
  I am ready to walk into Luby's cafeteria today, and start blowing away
people
I know and total strangers, for no real fucking reason, just to stop the
voices
inside my head which scream such things as "Wake Up America"/"What the Fuck
are
We all Doing to One Another"/"When will the Madness STOP!!!"
  When will you be ready?
  I am ready to kidnap men, women and children who are federal employees, or
related to them, or who sent them Christmas cards, or who failed to punch
their
fucking lights out when they fucked over those they are supposed to 'serve'
because of some obscure legal technicality passed by drunken, syphlittic 
politicians in a previous century. I am ready to transport them to the site
of the OKC bombing in numbers amounting to hundreds of times of McVeigh's
victims, bombing their innocent souls into oblivion, in the hope that someone,
somewhere, will look into the eyes of the psychotic, deranged madman that I
have become, and see themself, and their neighbors, desperately trying to
maintain the illusion that their hands are free of blood when foreign children
die as a result of embargos placed within the imaginary political lines which
define our MeatSpace Reality--embargos placed by those that they themselves
voted for in return for the promise that *their* children, on the 'good' side
of the imaginary line, would be provided with good nutrition and a sound
future,
unless, of course, they live in one of the poorer states, or America needs a
larger military budget to defend the most powerful military nation in the
world from some flea on the ass of an Iranian camel.
  Blanc, when will *you* be ready?
  I am ready, today, to gun down a woman carrying a baby, killing them both,
and justifying my actions by claiming I thought she was a Somalian warlord--I
am ready to drive a tank to MicroSoft Corporate Headquarters and raze it to
the ground, killing men, women and children in a violent cataclysm of smoke
and flames, justifying it with claims that MicroSoft cult members are all
gun-hoarding child-molesters who think Bill Gates is Jesus.
  When will you be ready...?

  The optomist says that the human soul is half full.
  The pessimist says that the human soul is half empty.
  The realist says, "Kill 'em all, and let God sort them out."
  Tim May says, "Broken eggs, and all that."
  
  I say, "The Revolution is NOW!"
  What do *you* say?
  Shall we set a date, sweetheart?

[TBC]





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill.stewart@pobox.com
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 14:26:20 -0800 (PST)
To: Tim May 
Subject: Re: The Octopus and America as the Evil Empire
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980215011846.008b9320@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 10:58 AM 2/14/98 -0800, you wrote:
>(I was told by a usually reliable source that AT&T rerouted some of their
>Long Lines to cross Indian reservations...thus allowing interception by the
>TLAs without violating the laws about domestic surveillance. Is this true?
>I haven't done any research to try to verify this, but it wouldn't surprise
>me. The UK-USA agreement is already a way to circumvent the "no domestic
>surveillance without a court order" laws, as we all know by now.)

I haven't a clue who to ask, but it would surprise me a bit.
	[#disclaimer: personal opinion only, not AT&T's]
If it was done, it would have been for microwave lines,
which are mostly obsolete except in places like
Southern Utah and parts of Montana and the Dakotas which
don't have enough population density to justify replacing with fiber.
Much more likely they were routed through reservations for 
cheap right of way.  Most of the routes have been pretty stable
for a long time, because of right-of-way issues, and many of them
date from back before the FBI and CIA worried about little details
like Constitutionality and different rules on Indian reservations.


				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 23:56:06 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Consumer Biometric Privacy Protection Act of 1998
Message-ID: <199802150756.CAA29542@panix2.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/content/zdnn/0213/285183.html

[snip]
Labeled the "Consumer Biometric Privacy Protection Act of
1998," the bill prohibits trafficking in biometric databases,
mandates increased security for storing such data, and
prevents businesses from recording data for biometric
identification without the owner's consent. The bill also
increases the severity of identity theft, from a misdemeanor
to a felony. 

"How would you like your fingerprints to be sold over the Internet?"
[snip]

"[Biometric] identifiers [have the potential] to provide an
efficient, unintrusive, and accurate means of identifying
consumers in a variety of commercial and government
applications," said the text of the bill. 
[snip]


A massive proliferation of "fingertip scanning" products...

http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/content/pcwk/1505/279078.html

In separate efforts to strengthen the rapidly evolving
biometric industry, vendors and industry groups have
announced three separate biometric APIs, each proposed
as "the standard API" for biometric application
development. Now the real work begins, as developers,
users, industry associations, manufacturing interests and
government agencies express their opinions on which to
back or on how to roll them into one.
[snip]

The National Registry Inc. (www.nrid.com) was the first to
unveil a universal standard, dubbed HA-API, although
IBM had announced its coming API previously. NRI
developed HA-API as an initiative for the U.S. Department
of Defense. The outcome is a high-level umbrella for any
biometric technology, although the specification currently
supports only the Win32 environment. NRI has
demonstrated HA-API's capability by implementing it in its
line of fingertip scanning products, as well as in Keyware
Technologies Inc.'s Voice Guardian speaker verification
product.
[snip]




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: mfc@daltek.net
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 02:21:19 -0800 (PST)
To: mfc@daltek.net
Subject: Can't Find Your Site?
Message-ID: <199802151002.FAA02448@apollo.redcomet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: eureka@eureka.abc-web.com
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 01:48:31 -0800 (PST)
To: All Eureka! Subscribers: ;
Subject: Eureka! Sun Feb 15 '98
Message-ID: <19980215081715.18977.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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============================================================
TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS NEWSLETTER,  USE THE REPLY FUNCTION
IN YOUR EMAIL PROGRAM, AND SEND THIS EMAIL RIGHT BACK TO US.
============================================================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 05:27:40 -0800 (PST)
To: Recipient List Suppressed:;
Subject: DCSB: Joseph Reagle; Meta-data and Negotiation in Digital Commerce
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



--- begin forwarded text


X-Sender: rah@pop.sneaker.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 11:02:37 -0500
To: dcsb@ai.mit.edu, dcsb-announce@ai.mit.edu
From: Robert Hettinga 
Subject: DCSB: Joseph Reagle; Meta-data and Negotiation in Digital Commerce
Cc: "Joseph M. Reagle Jr." , Adam Shostack ,
        Jeremey Barrett 
Sender: bounce-dcsb@ai.mit.edu
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: Robert Hettinga 

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----


              The Digital Commerce Society of Boston

                            Presents

                        Joseph Reagle Jr.
                   World Wide Web Consortium

                        "Social Protocols":
                    Meta-data and Negotiation
                       in Digital Commerce

                    Tuesday, March 3, 1997
                           12 - 2 PM
               The Downtown Harvard Club of Boston
                  One Federal Street, Boston, MA




On the foundations of basic network, meta-data, and negotiation protocols, a
"new" set of protocols, "social protocols," are being built. They are in
fact applications of meta-data and negotiation in order to mimic the social
capabilities people have in the real world: capabilities to create rich
content, make verifiable assertions, create agreements, and to develop and
manage trust relationships. Furthermore, governments realize that a
significant portion of their constituencies and markets are moving on-line.
Consequently, as the sophistication of one's interactions on the Web
increase through the development of social protocols, so does the
regulators' interest in extending their "real world" mandates on commerce
and culture to the Web.  Mr. Reagle will detail the development of "social
protocols" and their ability to create and maintain spontaneous, emergent,
social structures versus their ability to propagate "real world" norms on
the Web.


Joseph Reagle Jr. joined the World Wide Web Consortium (W3C) at MIT in
October of 1996 to focus on policy issues related to the development of
global technologies and their relationship to social and legal structures.
Specifically, how to promote "good" engineering when applied to a
multifaceted and often contentious policy environment; one result of this
activity is the W3C Statement on Policy. Mr. Reagle received a Computer
Science degree from University of Maryland Baltimore County (UMBC) and
continued on to the S.M. Technology and Policy program at the Massachusettes
Institute of Technology (MIT). While at MIT he worked with the Research
Program on Communication Policy on IPR, eCommerce, security, and
cryptographic policy. During the summer of '95, he worked at Open Market on
electronic commerce protocols. Before joining the W3C at the Laboratory for
Computer Science (MIT), Mr. Reagle consulted on Internet and interactive
media for McCann-Erickson, and Internet gambling for go-Digital.



This meeting of the Digital Commerce Society of Boston will be held on
Tuesday, March 3, 1997, from 12pm - 2pm at the Downtown Branch of the
Harvard Club of Boston, on One Federal Street. The price for lunch is
$32.50. This price includes lunch, room rental, various A/V hardware, and
the speaker's lunch. ;-).  The Harvard Club *does* have dress code: jackets
and ties for men (and no sneakers or jeans), and "appropriate business
attire" (whatever that means), for women.  Fair warning: since we purchase
these luncheons in advance, we will be unable to refund the price of your
lunch if the Club finds you in violation of the dress code.

We will attempt to record this meeting for sale on CD/R, and to put it on
the web in RealAudio format, at some future date.


We need to receive a company check, or money order, (or, if we *really* know
you, a personal check) payable to "The Harvard Club of Boston", by Saturday,
February 28th, or you won't be on the list for lunch.  Checks payable to
anyone else but The Harvard Club of Boston will have to be sent back.

Checks should be sent to Robert Hettinga, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston,
Massachusetts, 02131. Again, they *must* be made payable to "The Harvard
Club of Boston", in the amount of $32.50. Please include your e-mail
address, so that we can send you a confirmation

If anyone has questions, or has a problem with these arrangements (We've had
to work with glacial A/P departments more than once, for instance), please
let us know via e-mail, and we'll see if we can work something out.

Upcoming speakers for DCSB are:

April     Adam Shostack       Digital Commerce Security:
                               Beyond Firewalls
May       Jeremey Barrett     Digital Bearer Certificate Protocols


We are actively searching for future speakers.  If you are in Boston on the
first Tuesday of the month, and you would like to make a presentation to the
Society, please send e-mail to the DCSB Program Commmittee, care of Robert
Hettinga, .


For more information about the Digital Commerce Society of Boston, send
"info dcsb" in the body of a message to  . If
you want to subscribe to the DCSB e-mail list, send "subscribe dcsb" in the
body of a message to  .

We look forward to seeing you there!

Cheers,
Robert Hettinga
Moderator,
The Digital Commerce Society of Boston



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-----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/
Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: 



For help on using this list (especially unsubscribing), send a message to
"dcsb-request@ai.mit.edu" with one line of text: "help".

--- end forwarded text



-----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/
Ask me about FC98 in Anguilla!: 






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 23:50:40 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: crackers
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199802150750.IAA04662@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Sat, 14 Feb 1998 16:22:47 EST  Ah1261@aol.com wrote:

>I WOULD LIKE SOME INFO ON PASSWORD CRACKERS EMAIL ME BACK A.S.A.P.

I like them with some cheese, but you may not.  You'll have to let us know if
you like cheese or not.  BTW those crackers you can get from Wal-Mart are
better than password crackers IMHO

Free lunch anyone? ;-)

 







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Jay A. Tolkoff" <103637.641@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 06:28:27 -0800 (PST)
To: CypherPunks 
Subject: Space Alien CypherPunks / Uncorrupted / From Russia, With Love
Message-ID: <199802150927_MC2-3361-2C5E@compuserve.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


	____________________________________
	SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS !!!???!!!
  	____________________________________
		by The Author
			Copyright 2000, The Lost Planet Airmen

PROLOGUE:
--------
  I was very young as a dark and stormy Knight...

[Author's Note: This part of the prologue is numbered 1-of-0 because there is,
 in reality, no telling how long, wide and far I may or may not ramble in 
 telling a tale which lies deep inside of me and cries out to be told, despite
 the rapid degeneration of what little is left of my nervous system, my brain
 function, and my sanity in general.
 As well, after a lifetime of using an overwhelming excess of commas in my
 sagacious scribblings and blitheful blatherings, I am well aware that commas
 do not grow on trees (except for cherry trees, and they are upside down--thus
 of no use to a scribe such as myself) and that this account of tales untold
 since the beginning of time (1949, in my universe) may well end in mid-sentence
 when I have used the last of the commas that I have purloined, stolen and
 hoarded, over the years, is removed from my secret hiding place and placed on
 the written page.
 Hopefully, before this has come to pass, I will have managed to reveal all of
 the myriad of universal secrets which have remained hidden in plain sight of
 us all (particularly George Carlin), since the founding of the universe, and
 the final comma that marks the end of my wisdom will mark the beginning of a
 new universal ignorance, in which all shall finally know that there *is*no*
 knowledge*, and that "The ClueServer died for our sins".]

 
The Death of gomez and the Birth of Magical Thinking:
  I am the Prophet...
  It's not something I'm proud of, and I in no way planned for things to turn
out this way, but the role of Unerring Prophet of the Future of All Mankind
was forced on me by circumstances beyond my control.
  Originally, I was just trying to be a brain-warped, cynical asshole--doing
my best to stir up shit, cause trouble, spreadFear/Uncertainty/Disinformation
to the best of my ability, and maintain a conscientiously applied plan of good
oral hygene. ("Thank you. I'm feeling much better, now.)

  I've been crazy all of my life, having suffered serious brain injury as a 
child, and compounding this natural disaster by a willful ingestion of a variety
of legal and illegal substances designed to enrich pharmacists and people with
dark skin tones who spend much of their time on dimly-lit street corners.
  There are those who read my apparently mad ramblings and assume that I am
some kind of creative writing genius heavily influenced by Hunter S. Thompson,
Carlos Castenada, Stephen King and William Burrogh's Jr. They are wrong.
  As gomez himself said, before being removed as the eternal symbol of the
true Digerati, the Circle of Eunuchs, "We don't make it up, we just make it
better."
  Thus, when I describe the series of ElectroShock treatments that I underwent
under the care of Dr. Abram Hoffer (the Father of Megavitamin Therapy), and 
describe them as taking place at the exact same moment as the massive power
blackouts throughout the NorthEastern United States and Canada, the details
I provide may not be accurate within the time-space continuum, but they will
be totally consistent with the Ultimate and Eternal Truth as evidenced by the
True Measure of Reality--the electrical bill from SaskPower Corporation that
was presented to Central Hospital in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, which ultimately
resulted in the restructuring of the Saskatchewan MediCare system, and the loss
of many lives that could have otherwise been saved if the medical profession
had not deemed it necessary to store within my brain enough electricity to
create a thousand FrankenSteins, or power the bright lights of Las Vegas for
a hundred years, in the case of an emergency.

  Hyperbole? Guess again, shit-for-brains...
  Anyone who has read "The News of the Weird" by Chuck Shephard can vouch for
the fact that the crap that backs up in my demented brain cells, until it spills
out like a toxic efflusive onto the written page, could not carry the jock-strap
of the events which happen every day, in real life, far removed from the short-
circuting electrical malfunctions spewing forth from my damaged brain synapses.

  I am the Prophet...
  I am a certified lunatic bouncing wildly back and forth between reality and
rational thought <--> magical thinking fueled by messages from Mars which I
receive hourly via the silver fillings in my decaying dentures <--> logical
assumptions based on the patterns formed by rat-droppings I use to encrypt
my writings with the same algorithms used as the basis for C2Net's Stonghold
encryption software.

  In all honesty, I have to admit that I was lying when I presented myself to
WebWorld at large as the TruthMonger.
  But, "The best laid plans of rats and men..."

  My poor self-image, my low self-esteem, and the knowledge that I had come
by them honestly, drove me to a state where I was determined to live out my
life as a lying, thieving, conniving, rat-bastard-piece-of-shit who would crap
on and distort the truth about everything that normal, decent people hold
sacred in their lives.
  So I used my computer skills, my limitless supply of amphetamines, and my
powers of obsessive-compulsive, psychotic fixation to rail madly against 
the surrounding hordes of men and women of reason who strove to suffocate the
madness that I was destined from birth to manifest on the long and twisted
road which would ultimately lead to my emergence as the Anti-Christ who would
raze the complete face of the earth with violent spasms of death and destruction
the likes of which the universe has never seen.

  "It's life's illusions I recall...I really don't know life, at all."
~Joni Mitchell
  "All my lies are true...and everything I do, I really am."
~Carroll
  "Some say he's good...some say he's great...some just say, 'It's a *shame*
about that boy.'"
~Sonny King, introducing C.J.Parker, the King of Country Porno, at Club Foot
 in Austin, Texas, at a benefit for Xalapeno Charlie.

  In the end, I reached spiritual enlightenment through the realization that
Satan, the Evil One, the Anti-Christ, Bill Gates, Louis Freeh, Janet Reno, can
never hope to even remotely approach the depths of depravity, outrageous
licentiousness and lunacy, or sick and twisted dementia exhibited daily by
the average Jane and Joe smiling at us from the other side of the bank manager's
desk, or the check-out counter at the local K-Mart.
  No matter how depraved the sick, demented spewings from my evil mind became,
attempting to poison the minds of all who came into contact with my evil,
satanic blatherings, masquerading as a true mirror of the reality that surrounds
us--in the end, I was, am, and will continue to be...TruthMonger.

  I am the Prophet...
  If my sick, twisted mind concocts some bizarre, depraved fantasy about Lisa
Bonet Ramsey's rotting carcass rising from a roadside ditch to plug parking
meters and being flown by the Cincinnati Police Department to New York City
to carry out Judge Ito's sentence of having a toilet plunger shoved up her
ass, then one of two things will happen.
  Either CNN will break the story, exactly as I have described it, minutes
before my missive shows up on the InterNet, or I will receive the lastest
email version of "News of the Weird," which will report real news stories from
the mainstream media which make my fantasy's look like shallow attempts by
Miss Manners to increase her readership.

Death of a Legend / The Truth About the CypherPunks:
  The CypherPunks have long been renowned as standing at the bleeding edge of
the burdgeoning computer technology which is rapidly changing the face of our
planet and the governmental, civil, and social societies encompassed within
this celestial orb.
  Harbingers of the Digital Future / Pioneers of Future Technology / etc., etc.
  Bullshit...
  The CypherPunks are rag-tag band of infantile, pseudo-anarchistic, pseudo-
cryptic, well-educated shit-disturbers who take great pleasure in pissing on
themselves, each other, and the world around them--all the while, covering
their motivations and ambitions with high-sounding ideals intended to disguise
the fact that none of them ever received proper toilet-training.

  The end result?
  No matter how high they pile it, how far they spread it, or how badly it 
smells when you step in it, they end up coming off as the Henry Kissinger's
of CyberSpace, because no matter how much rotten meat, jalapenos and moldy
cheese they eat, they can never manage to crap out anything so vile and foul-
smelling that the world-at-large cannot prove prophetic in MeatSpace.

Question for Blanc Weber (CypherPunks version of the Sweetheart of the Rodeo):
  Yes, Blanc, I am the one who was hiding in the bushes near the gravesites
when you were laying the wreaths in honor of Mother Teresa and the children
who were the 'victims' of the Oklahoma Federal Building bombing. Yes, that
was me who was whistling the eerie medely of "Psycho Killer" and "Street 
Fighting Man" while you were busy trying to honor the souls of the 'innocents'
who died for the sin of being born.
  Realizing that we are polar-opposites, I am willing to concede that perhaps
Eternal Truth, True Justice and A Noble Ideal To Be Named Later might best be
served if you and I met in the middle and acted in concert to do what must
inevitably be done to balance the distorted energy of the Tao which is currently
tearing our planet, our socities and our individuals to pieces.

  I am ready now...when will you be ready?
  I am ready to walk into Luby's cafeteria today, and start blowing away people
I know and total strangers, for no real fucking reason, just to stop the voices
inside my head which scream such things as "Wake Up America"/"What the Fuck are
We all Doing to One Another"/"When will the Madness STOP!!!"
  When will you be ready?
  I am ready to kidnap men, women and children who are federal employees, or
related to them, or who sent them Christmas cards, or who failed to punch their
fucking lights out when they fucked over those they are supposed to 'serve'
because of some obscure legal technicality passed by drunken, syphlittic 
politicians in a previous century. I am ready to transport them to the site
of the OKC bombing in numbers amounting to hundreds of times of McVeigh's
victims, bombing their innocent souls into oblivion, in the hope that someone,
somewhere, will look into the eyes of the psychotic, deranged madman that I
have become, and see themself, and their neighbors, desperately trying to
maintain the illusion that their hands are free of blood when foreign children
die as a result of embargos placed within the imaginary political lines which
define our MeatSpace Reality--embargos placed by those that they themselves
voted for in return for the promise that *their* children, on the 'good' side
of the imaginary line, would be provided with good nutrition and a sound future,
unless, of course, they live in one of the poorer states, or America needs a
larger military budget to defend the most powerful military nation in the
world from some flea on the ass of an Iranian camel.
  Blanc, when will *you* be ready?
  I am ready, today, to gun down a woman carrying a baby, killing them both,
and justifying my actions by claiming I thought she was a Somalian warlord--I
am ready to drive a tank to MicroSoft Corporate Headquarters and raze it to
the ground, killing men, women and children in a violent cataclysm of smoke
and flames, justifying it with claims that MicroSoft cult members are all
gun-hoarding child-molesters who think Bill Gates is Jesus.
  When will you be ready...?

  The optomist says that the human soul is half full.
  The pessimist says that the human soul is half empty.
  The realist says, "Kill 'em all, and let God sort them out."
  Tim May says, "Broken eggs, and all that."
  
  I say, "The Revolution is NOW!"
  What do *you* say?
  Shall we set a date, sweetheart?

[TBC]




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: EasyMoney@MoneyMakers.com
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 08:08:12 -0800 (PST)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: Sorry this took so long...call me at home when you get this...
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Alex...here is that E-Mail I got that made me the money to get my new Entertainment system you liked so much. Tell Sarah I said hello, and call me when you get this.

  I Never Thought I'd Be the One Telling You This!!
"I Invested $20 and I'm Going to Europe on My Earnings!"

Hello, Friends!

My name is Karen Liddell; I'm a 35-year-old mom, wife, and 
part-time accountant.  As a rule, I ignore all unsolicited
"junk" e-mail and use my account primarily for business. 
I received this very same e-mail countless times and 
deleted it each time.

About two months ago I received it again and, because of 
the catchy subject line,  I finally gave it my attention. 
Afterwards, I thought, "OK, I'm going to try this.  I can
certainly afford to invest $20 and there's nothing wrong 
with creating a little excess cash." I promptly mailed four
$5 bills and, after receiving the reports, paid a friend
a small fee to send bulk e-mail for me.  After reading
the reports, I also learned how to advertise for free!

Let me tell you this:  I was not prepared for the results.
Everyday for the last six weeks, my large P.O. box has been 
literally overflowing with $5 bills; many days the excess 
fills up an extra mail bin!  I am STUNNED by all the money 
that keeps rolling in!

My husband and I had been trying to save for a down payment
on a house.  Now, not only are we purchasing a house with
40% down, we're going to Venice, Italy to celebrate!

I promise you, if you follow the steps in this e-mail and
be prepared to set aside about an hour each day to follow
up (and count your money!), you will make at least as much 
money as we did. You don't need to be a whiz at the computer
but I'll bet you already are. If you can open an envelope,
remove the money, and send an e-mail, then you're on your
way to the bank. Read this e-mail a few times so you'll 
understand how easy it is. If I can do this, so can you!

                GO FOR IT NOW!!  IT REALLY WORKS!!

                Karen Liddell

The following is a copy of the e-mail I read:

  $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $
         This is a LEGAL, MONEY-MAKING PHENOMENON!!!  
    We suggest you PRINT this letter, read the directions, 
                   THEN READ THEM AGAIN!  
  $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $

You are about to embark on the most PROFITABLE and UNIQUE 
program you may ever see.  Many times over, it has proven 
its ability to generate LARGE AMOUNTS of CASH. This program
is showing fantastic appeal with a huge and ever-growing
on-line population desirous of additional income.

This is a legitimate, LEGAL, money-making opportunity.  It 
does not require you to come in contact with people, do any
selling, and you don't even have to leave the house except 
to get the mail and go to the bank!  

Simply follow the easy instructions in this letter, and 
soon your financial dreams will come true! When followed 
correctly, this electronic, multi-level marketing program 
works perfectly...100% EVERY TIME!

Thousands of people have used this program to:
    -  Raise capital to start their own business
    -  Pay off debts
    -  Buy homes, cars, etc., 

This is your chance, so don't pass it up!

     $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $
             OVERVIEW OF THIS EXTRAORDINARY  
        ELECTRONIC MULTI-LEVEL MARKETING PROGRAM    
     $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $

This is what you will do to reach financial freedom:

You will send thousands of people a product for $5.00 which 
costs next to nothing to produce and e-mail. As with all 
multi-level businesses, you will increase your business by 
building your downline and selling the products.  Every 
state in the U.S. allows you to recruit new multi- level 
business online (via your computer).

The products in this program are a series of four business 
reports costing $5.00 each.  Each order you receive via 
postal mail will include:

  * $5.00 cash
  * The name and number of the report they are ordering
  * The e-mail address where you will send them the report 
    they ordered.
  * Their postal address (a great way to build a database 
    of opportunity seekers for your future endeavors). 

To fill each order, simply e-mail the product to the buyer.
              THAT'S IT!  THE $5.00 IS YOURS!
This is the EASIEST multi-level marketing business anywhere!

  $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $
         FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS EXACTLY AND BE 
       PREPARED TO REAP THE STAGGERING BENEFITS! 
  $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $

   * * * * * I  N  S  T  R  U  C  T  I  O  N  S * * * * *

1.  Order all 4 reports shown on the list below (you can't 
    sell them if you don't order them).
     
   *  For each of the 4 reports, send $5 CASH ONLY, the NAME and
      NUMBER OF THE REPORT YOU ARE ORDERING, YOUR E-MAIL
      ADDRESS, and YOUR POSTAL ADDRESS to the person whose
      name is listed under the corresponding report.

   *  Make sure you order each of the 4 reports.  You need
      all 4 reports to save on your computer and resell.

   *  Within 5 to 7 days you will receive, via e-mail, 
      each of the four reports. Save them on your computer
      so they will be accessible for you to send to the 
      thousands of people who will order them from you.

2.  IMPORTANT-- DO NOT alter the names of the people who are
    listed under each report, in any way other than is 
    instructed below in steps "a" through "f" or you will 
    lose out on the majority of your profit. Once you 
    understand how this program works, you'll also see how 
    it doesn't work if you change it. Remember, this method
    has been tested, and if you alter it, it will not work.

    a.  Look below for the listing of available reports.

    b.  After you've ordered the four reports, take this 
        advertisement and remove the name and address under 
        REPORT #4. This person has made it through the cycle
        and is no doubt counting their 50 grand!

    c.  Move the name and address under REPORT #3 down to
        REPORT #4.  

    d.  Move the name and address under REPORT #2 down to 
        REPORT #3.

    e.  Move the name and address under REPORT #1 down to
        REPORT #2.

    f.  Insert your name/address in the REPORT #1 position.

  =3D=3D> Please copy all names and addresses ACCURATELY!!! <=3D=3D

3.  Take this entire letter, including the modified list of
    names, and save it to your computer.  Make NO changes 
    to the instruction portion of this letter.
  
4.  Now you're ready to start an advertising campaign on 
    the WORLDWIDE WEB!  Advertising on the WEB is very 
    inexpensive, and there are HUNDREDS of FREE places
    to advertise. Another avenue which you could use for 
    advertising is investing in bulk e-mail services by
    paying someone a minimal charge to advertise for you. 

5.  For every $5.00 you receive, all you must do is e-mail
    them the report they ordered.  THAT'S IT!  ALWAYS 
    PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON ALL ORDERS!  This will 
    guarantee that the e-mail THEY send out, with YOUR name
    and address on it, will be prompt because they can't
    advertise until they receive the report!

 ***************************************************************
                  AVAILABLE REPORTS    
             Order Each REPORT by NUMBER and NAME 
 ***************************************************************
Notes:
-  ALWAYS SEND $5 CASH (NO CHECKS) FOR EACH REPORT
-  Make sure the cash is concealed by wrapping it in at 
   least two sheets of paper  
-  On one of those sheets of paper, include: (a) the number
   & name of the report you are ordering, (b) your e-mail 
   address, and (c) your postal address.  It is suggested 
   that you rent a mailbox addressed to an assumed "company"
   name to avoid your name and home address being sent to
   millions of people. For an example, see the "company" 
   names listed below.
___________________________________________________________
REPORT #1 "HOW TO MAKE $250,000 THROUGH MULTI-LEVEL SALES" 

ORDER REPORT #1 FROM: 
 
      CIC
      120 Cedar Grove Ln
      Suite 314 
      Somerset NJ 08873
      
       
___________________________________________________________
REPORT #2 "MAJOR CORPORATIONS AND MULTI-LEVEL SALES"

ORDER REPORT #2 FROM:

       PAO
      149-06 24th Ave.
      Whitestone, NY 11357
  
___________________________________________________________
REPORT #3 "SOURCES FOR THE BEST MAILING LISTS"

ORDER REPORT #3 FROM:

        SSAI
       P.O. Box 1834
       Bonita, Ca.  91908-1834
   
___________________________________________________________
REPORT #4 "EVALUATING MULTI-LEVEL SALES PLANS"

ORDER REPORT #4 FROM:
          
         NDZ, Inc.
        1579F Monroe Drive
        Box 240
        Atlanta, Ga.  30324

           
___________________________________________________________
  
$ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $=
 $ $
 HERE'S HOW THIS AMAZING PROGRAM WILL MAKE YOU $MONEY$ 
$ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $=
 $ $

Let's say you start small just to see how it works. Assume 
your goal is to get 10 people on your first level. (Placing
a lot of FREE ads on the internet will EASILY get a larger
response.) Also assume that everyone in YOUR ORGANIZATION 
gets ONLY 10 downline members.  Follow this example to 
achieve the STAGGERING results below.

Level 1: your 10 members with $5. . . . . . . . . . . . .$50
Level 2: 10 members from those 10 ($5 x 100). . . . . . $500
Level 3: 10 members from those 100 ($5 x 1,000). . . .$5,000
Level 4: 10 members from those 1,000 ($5 x 10,000). .$50,000
                      THIS TOTALS    ----------->    $55,550

Remember: this assumes that the people who participate only
recruit 10 people each.  Think what will happen when they 
get 20 people to participate! Most people get 100's of 
participants!  THINK ABOUT IT!!!

       $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $
       $   TIPS FOR YOUR SUCCESS   $
       $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $

* TREAT THIS AS YOUR BUSINESS!  Be prompt, professional, 
  and follow the directions accurately.

* Send for the four reports IMMEDIATELY so you will have 
  them when the orders start coming in because:

     When you receive a $5 order, you MUST send the report
     to comply with U.S. Postal & Lottery Laws, Title 18,
     Sections 1302 and 1341 or Title 18,  Section 3005 in
     the U.S. Code, also Code of Federal Regs. vol. 16, 
     Sections 255 and 436, which state that "a product or 
     service must be exchanged for money received."

* Be patient and persistent! Follow the steps exactly and
  you WILL undoubtedly be SUCCESSFUL!

* HAVE FAITH IN YOURSELF AND KNOW YOU WILL SUCCEED!

       $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $
       $   YOUR SUCCESS GUIDELINE    $
       $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $

=3D=3D> Follow these guidelines to GUARANTEE YOUR SUCCESS <=3D=3D

If you don't receive 20 orders for REPORT #1 within 2 weeks,
keep advertising until you do.  Then, 2 weeks later, if you
receive less than 100 orders for REPORT #2, keep advertising
until you do. Once you have received 100 or more orders for
REPORT #2, YOU CAN RELAX, because the system is already 
working for you, and the $$CASH$$ will continue to roll in!

   =3D=3D> HOW YOU WILL KNOW THE PROGRAM IS WORKING <=3D=3D

Every time your name is moved down on the list, you are 
placed under a DIFFERENT report.  You can KEEP TRACK of 
your progress by watching which report people are ordering 
from you.  If you want to generate more income, send 
another batch of your advertisement (with you in the #1 
position) and start the process again!  There is no limit 
to the income you will generate from this business!

      ***************************************
        T  E  S  T  I  M  O  N  I  A  L  S  
      ***************************************

   This program does work, but you must follow it EXACTLY!
Especially the rule of not trying to place your name in a 
different position, it won't work and you'll lose a lot of 
potential income.  I'm living proof that it works.  It 
is a great opportunity to make very easy money, with little
investment.  If you participate, follow the program exactly
and you'll be on your way to financial security.
          Sean McLaughlin, Jackson, MS

     My name is Frank. My wife, Doris, and I live in 
Bel-Air, MD. I am a cost accountant with a major U.S. 
Corporation and I make pretty good money. When I received 
the program I grumbled to Doris about "junk mail." I made 
fun of the whole thing, spouting my knowledge of the 
population and percentages involved.  I "knew" it wouldn't 
work. Doris totally ignored my supposed intelligence and 
jumped in with both feet. I made merciless fun of her, and 
was ready to lay the old "I told you so" on her when the 
thing didn't work... well, the laugh was on me!  Within 
two weeks she had received over 50 responses. Within 45 
days she had received over $147,200 in $5 bills! I was 
shocked!  I was sure that I had it all figured and that it
wouldn't work.  I AM a believer now. I have joined Doris in
her "hobby."   I did have seven more years until retirement,
but I think of the "rat race" and it's not for me. We owe it
all to MLM.
           Frank T., Bel-Air, MD

    The main reason for this letter is to tell you that 
this system is honest, lawful, extremely profitable, and is
a way to get a large amount of money in a short time. I was
approached several times before I checked this out. I 
joined just to see what one could expect in return for the
minimal effort and money required.  To my astonishment, I 
received $36,470.00 in the first 14 weeks, with money still
coming in.
           Sincerely yours, Phillip A. Brown, Esq.

    Not being the gambling type, it took me several weeks
to make up my mind to participate in this plan. But being 
conservative, I decided that the initial investment was so 
little that there was no way that I wouldn't get enough 
orders to at least get my money back. Boy, was I surprised
when I found my medium-size post office box crammed with 
orders!  For awhile, it got so overloaded that I had to 
start picking up my mail at the window. I'll make more 
money this year than any 10 years of my life before. There 
simply isn't a better investment with a faster return.
         Mary Rockland, Lansing, MI

This is my third time to participate in this plan. My 
wife and I have quit our jobs, and will soon buy a home at 
the beach and live off the interest on our money.  The 
only way this plan will work for you is if you do it. For 
your sake, and for your family's sake don't pass up this 
opportunity.  Good luck and happy spending!
           Charles Fairchild, Spokane, WA

          $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $
           ORDER YOUR REPORTS TODAY AND GET  
                STARTED ON YOUR ROAD TO   
                   FINANCIAL FREEDOM!!!   
          $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill.stewart@pobox.com
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 14:26:23 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Censorship of Library and School Computers
In-Reply-To: <34E09296.3EC@dc.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980215112911.008d9b10@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Sounds like an obvious target for activism to add a requirement that
any censorware systems selected be clearly identified to the public,
including the kids, and that the blocking criteria and lists be
made available to the parents and adult library users.
In particular, many local jurisdictions have sunshine laws that
might have applicability, and anything so blatantly Un-American 
and dangerous as third-party censorship certainly needs to be watched.

On the legal side, the idea of a Federal mandate that state and local
jurisdictions make decisions that cannot be reviewed by the Feds
seems pretty dodgy; certainly the whole issue ought to be reviewable
by courts in response to a citizen lawsuit, even if Federal prosecutors
can't initiate actions about it.

At 09:47 AM 2/10/98 -0800, Robert Cannon wrote to CYBERIA-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM,
>Sen. McCain has introduced his bill to require schools and libraries
>that acquire Internet access using the universal service fund to
>restrict the access of children to indecency.  The text of the Bill can
>be found at ftp://ftp.loc.gov/pub/thomas/c105/s1619.is.txt  It already
>has three cosponsors, one of which is our friend Dan "no I wont give up"
>Coats.

[Quotes from text of bill about how schools and libraries need systems
to block material "deemed to be inappropriate for minors";
schools have to select and promise to install to request the money,
while libraries have to employ it on one or more computers,
though the language appears to be crafted sufficiently vaguely
as to not require them to use it on all their computers 
(or even necessarily on computers accessible to kids :-) ]

>       `(4) LOCAL DETERMINATION OF CONTENT- For purposes of
>        paragraphs (2) and (3), the determination of what matter is
>        inappropriate for minors shall be made by the school, school
>        board, library or other authority responsible for making the
>        required certification. No agency or instrumentality of the
>        United States Government may--
>           `(A) establish criteria for making that determination;
>           `(B) review the determination made by the certifying
>            school, school board, library, or other authority; or
>           `(C) consider the criteria employed by the certifying
>            school, school board, library, or other authority in the
>            administration of subsection (h)(1)(B).'.
>
>
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: vcarlos35@juno.com
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 14:42:33 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Miller-Rabin prime number testing
Message-ID: <19980215.173857.7286.1.vcarlos35@juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Does anyone have any information on the Miller-Rabin probabalistic
primality test?
I'm pretty sure its on page 260 of Applied Cryptography 2nd edition, but
I lent mey copy  to
someone and he's away.
Please email me/the list if you have this algorithm.
Thanks.

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 09:42:23 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: re: Hlep
Message-ID: <199802151742.SAA10972@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



A cloud of linear purity began to move over the 
sand-monster, billowing with precipitory anticipation.

Small blood puzzles aligned themselves like 
melanomas, forming patterns of infinite finality.

The puzzle-monsters coalesced as lasers, carving
lesions from flesh and riddling the brittle skin
with xray cracks.

Soon it would be as it before, finally.


- A'Tak A'Tdorn






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 16:09:34 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Spy Touts Crypto
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980216001226.007560b0@pop.pipeline.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 16:40:04 -0500

Frankfurt, Germany (AP) -- Germany's spy chief has denied U.S. 
allegations that his agents spy on American companies, but he 
warned German firms that such economic espionage is soaring 
internationally. 

Bernd Schmidbauer said in comments published Saturday that, in 
contrast to most countries' spy agencies, Germany's is not 
involved in any economic espionage. 

The Frankfurter Allgemeine daily reported that the FBI last 
month accused Germany of running a post near Frankfurt that 
eavesdrops on U.S. phones and tries to break into American 
computer systems. 

"We're astounded about those reports from the FBI," the 
newspaper quoted Schmidbauer as saying. He said the post is 
involved only in trying to prevent the spread of weapons of 
mass destruction. 

The FBI does not normally identify governments it suspects of 
economic spying. But an article last month, written by an FBI 
agent for the industry magazine Public Administration Review, 
lists Germany along with France, Israel, China and South Korea 
as major offenders. 

The article said more than 700 investigations involving 
economic espionage by foreign governments are pending before 
the bureau. The FBI confirmed that figure last month. 

The American Society for Industrial Security estimated that 
American businesses lost $300 billion in intellectual property 
to foreign and domestic spies last year. 

Schmidbauer said German companies also are increasingly 
targeted, and warned that any conversations, faxes or computer 
information carried over phone lines or mobile phones could be 
eavesdropped. 

"A lot of money is being lost through this form of espionage," 
Schmidbauer said, without giving a figure. "And it's not only 
east European spies that are snapping up know-how from German 
companies."

"Our companies are relatively naive," he said. "Concrete steps 
must be taken ... including encoding techniques."

[End]

Thanks to DN.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 15864623@splittmail.com
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 06:04:56 -0800 (PST)
To: trade@liner.com
Subject: E-mail List Goldmine
Message-ID: <199702005.GAA00805@ihia.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



**********************************************************    
EUROPE, ASIA AND AUSTRALIA E-MAIL ADDRESS LIST FOR SALE 
*********************************************************

THE FIRST OF ITS KIND ON THE INTERNET!

Expand your business WORLDWIDE! Using the Power of E-mail addresses.

This is the first time on the Internet that you are being
offered with this kind of opportunity. Do not confine yourself only
in the North American region while you can reach the entire world
by just a click!

Would you like 9 Million Business e-mail address Delivered On CD?

I thought so!

Well now you can! Hi, My name is Timothy Perora. For over six months,
my partner, Suchai T.Sinskul and I have been working to make the 
cleanest, most unique list available on the internet. This list was 
gathered from many different methods, but one important criteria was 
that the list only contains names of people living or working in Asia 
Europe and Australia. These people are affluent, middle class and 
upper white collar personnel or owners of various business operation. 
They're people who have high-buying power, more than 90% hold an 
international credit card and of course, they are familiar with buying or 
selling any product, services or any other opportunities overseas! 
 
We are now proud to present to you this list!

The FRESHEST, CLEANEST list on the internet today! 

>>>>Answer these questions:

* Are you tired of being BLOCKED by providers in the US?
* Are you sick of UNDELIVERABLES?
* Are you noticing a lowering response rate due to market saturation for
people in the US?
* Do you hate FLAMERS and REVENGE EMAIL BOMBERS?
* Are you concerned about your reputation?
* Do you want to sell and expand your offering to other people outside 
the US with the same cost as you're doing for people in your country?
* ARE YOU JUST LOOKING FOR THE ANSWER?
* ARE YOU GOING TO EXPAND AND OFFER YOUR PRODUCTS, SERVICES, 
BUSINESS OPPORTUNITIES AND MANY OTHERS TO THE
HUGE, UNTAPPED PEOPLE WHO ARE EAGER TO JUMP INTO THE OPPORTUNITIES
THEY'VE NEVER BEEN OFFERED BEFORE?
 
Well, We have the solution. Here's what we have:

9 million e-mail addresses for people who live or work in Europe,
Australia and Asian countries. These are included:

456,780    names for people in Hong Kong
367,845    names for people in Singapore
225,678    names for people in Thailand
643,601    names for people in Taiwan
2,120,680  names for people in Japan
345,670    names for people in Korea
1,321,650  names for people in Australia
1,256,789  names for people in United Kingdom
1,076,500  names for people in Germany
417,000    names for people in Netherlands
255,900    names for people in Sweden
345,000    names for people in France
134,231    names for people in Switzerland
175,640    names for people in Italy
128,090    names for people in Spain
*********
9,271,054  names for the whole list!

YOU CAN BE ONE OF THE FIRST PEOPLE TO BENEFIT FROM THIS FRESHEST,
HUGE, UNTAPPED LIST EVER-TO-BE!

YOU'LL LOVE THE CRITERIA:

* more than 95% deliverable, and you know what!, these people won't
change their e-mail addresses as often as in the US! (In the US,
any list that is more than 90 days will be outdated, more than 50%
undeliverable!). You can keep this list for more than one year and
still be able to make at least 90% deliverable! Yes, it's absolutely 
true, We guarantee with our strong words!

**************************************************************************
AFTER ONE YEAR OF PURCHASE, IF THE LIST HAS MORE THAN 10% UNDELIVERABLES,
JUST LET US KNOW, AND WE'LL REFUND THE MONEY TO YOU!
**************************************************************************

This list is truly your invaluable goldmine. Profit from it time after 
time, year after year, people won't go away from their addresses.

They're waiting to buy your products, services, opportunities or anything
you're doing. What you need to add to your current offering is only the
international shipping cost, Just check it out, then you can start 
promoting immediately!
 
WHAT DOES THIS MEAN FOR YOU?

+ Expand your business to the huge, untapped part of the world without 
any additional cost
+ Less resources needed to process undeliverables and remove requests
+ Less complaints
+ Better reputation.
+ Much more positive responses per mailing
+ Much higher sales percentages
+ BIGGER PROFITS!
 
HOW MUCH DO YOU GET, AND HOW MUCH DOES IT COST?

If you are an experienced bulk emailer, then YOU KNOW THE VALUE OF GOOD
ADDRESSES.  If you are not an experienced bulk emailer, then you'll have 
to take our word for it...

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 19:32:39 -0800 (PST)
To: j orlin grabbe 
Subject: Erich Mielke
Message-ID: <34E7AEE5.6FD9@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Sunday 2/15/98 7:52 PM

J Orlin Grabbe

Albuquerque Journal  h 2/5/98

  Ex-Spy Denied Extra Pension

    BERLIN - The former head of the East
  German secret police, a lifelong communist
  who fled Germany in the 1930s to avoid
  the Nazis, is not entitled to extra pension
  money for the time he spent in exile, a 
  court ruled Wednesday.
    One the No. 2 man in East Germany, Erich
  Mielke, 90, now lives in seclusion with his 
  wife in an apartment in eastern Berlin.  His
  monthly pension, according to German media,
  is just under $55 a month.
    Hoping to boost his income, he applied to Berlin
  authorities for a supplemental pension for the
  years he spent in Moscow and Spain, 1931 until 
  the end of  World War II.
    But the court ruled that the main reason for his
  exile was not fear of persecution, but for his 
  involvement as a young communist street fighter
  in the killing of two Berlin policemen on Aug. 9,
  1931.

Your attached article ALSO may include Mielke.

Grabbe, a LOT of guys wanted to find out what 
happened.  Israel too.

Let's all hope for settlement of this unfortunate
matter.

Later
bill

Title: NSA, Crypto AG, and the Iraq-Iran Conflict




 [Email Reply] 


NSA, Crypto AG, and the Iraq-Iran Conflict


          by J. Orlin Grabbe




	One of the dirty little secrets of the 1980s is that 
the U.S. regularly provided Iraq's Saddam Hussein with 
top-secret communication intercepts by the U.S. National 
Security Agency (NSA).  Consider the evidence.

	When in 1991 the government of Kuwait paid the 
public relations firm of Hill & Knowlton ten million 
dollars to drum up American war fever against the evil 
dictator Hussein, it brought about the end of a long legacy 
of cooperation between the U.S. and Iraq.  Hill & 
Knowlton resurrected the World War I propaganda story 
about German soldiers roasting Belgian babies on 
bayonets, updated in the form of a confidential witness 
(actually the daughter of the Kuwaiti ambassador to the 
U.S.) who told Congress a tearful story of Iraqi soldiers 
taking Kuwaiti babies out of incubators and leaving them 
on the cold floor to die.  President George Bush then 
repeated this fabricated tale in speeches ten times over the 
next three days.

	What is remarkable about this staged turn of 
events is that, until then, Hussein had operated largely 
with U.S. approval.  This cooperation had spanned three 
successive administrations, starting with Jimmy Carter.  
As noted by John R. MacArthur, "From 1980 to 1988, 
Hussein had shouldered the burden of killing about 
150,000 Iranians, in addition to at least thirteen thousand 
of his own citizens, including several thousand unarmed 
Kurdish civilians, and in the process won the admiration 
and support of elements of three successive U.S. 
Administrations" [1].

	Hussein's artful slaughter of Iranians was aided by 
good military intelligence.  The role of NSA in the 
conflict is an open secret in Europe, the Middle East, and 
Asia.  Only in this country has there been a relative news 
blackout, despite the fact that it was the U.S. 
administration that let the crypto cat out of the bag.  

	First, U.S. President Ronald Reagan informed the 
world on national television that the United States was 
reading Libyan communications.  This admission was part 
of a speech justifying the retaliatory bombing of Libya for 
its alleged involvement in the La Belle discotheque 
bombing in Berlin's Schoeneberg district, where two U.S. 
soldiers and a Turkish woman were killed, and 200 others 
injured. Reagan wasn't talking about American 
monitoring of Libyan news broadcasts. Rather, his "direct, 
precise, and undeniable proof"  referred to secret 
(encrypted) diplomatic communication between Tripoli 
and the Libyan embassy in East Berlin.

	Next, this leak was compound by the U.S. 
demonstration that it was also reading secret Iranian 
communications.  As reported in Switzerland's Neue 
Zurcher Zeitung,  the U.S. provided the contents of 
encrypted Iranian messages to France to assist in the 
conviction of Ali Vakili Rad and Massoud Hendi for the 
stabbing death in the Paris suburb of Suresnes of the 
former Iranian prime minister Shahpour Bakhtiar and his 
personal secretary Katibeh Fallouch. [2]
 
	What these two countries had in common was they 
had both purchased cryptographic communication 
equipment from the Swiss firm Crypto AG. Crypto AG 
was founded in 1952 by the (Russian-born) Swedish 
cryptographer Boris Hagelin who located his company in  
Zug.  Boris had created the "Hagelin-machine", a 
encryption device similar to the German "Enigma".  The 
Hagelin machine was used on the side of the Allies in 
World War II.

	Crypto AG was an old and venerable firm, and 
Switzerland was a neutral country. So Crypto AG's 
enciphering devices for voice communication and digital 
data networks were popular, and customers came from 
130 countries. These included the Vatican, as well the 
governments of Iraq, Iran, and Libya.  Such countries 
were naturally skeptical of cryptographic devices sold in 
many NATO countries, so turned to relatively neutral 
Switzerland for communication security.

	Iran demonstrated its suspicion about the source of 
the leaks, when it arrested Hans Buehler, a top salesman 
for Crypto AG, in Teheran on March 18, 1992.  During 
his nine and a half months of solitary confinement in Evin 
prison in Teheran, Buehler was questioned again and 
again whether he had leaked Teheran's codes or Libya's 
keys to Western powers.  Luckily Buehler didn't know 
anything.  He in fact believed in his own sales pitch that 
Crypto AG was a neutral company and its equipment was 
the best.  They were Swiss, after all.  [3]

	Crypto AG eventually paid one million dollars for 
Buehler's release in January 1993, then promptly fired 
him once they had reassured themselves that he hadn't 
revealed anything important under interrogation, and 
because Buehler had begun to ask some embarrassing 
questions. Then reports appeared on Swiss television, 
Swiss Radio International, all the major Swiss papers, and 
in German magazines like Der Spiegel.  Had Crypto AG's 
equipment been spiked by Western intelligence services? 
the media wanted to know. The answer was Yes [4].

	 Swiss television traced the ownership of Crypto 
AG to a company in Liechtenstein, and from there back to 
a trust company in Munich. A witness appearing on Swiss 
television explained the real owner was the German 
government--the Federal Estates Administration. [5]

        According to Der Spiegel, all but 6 of the 6000 
shares of Crypto AG were at one time owned by Eugen 
Freiberger, who resided in Munich and was head of the 
Crypto AG managing board in 1982. Another German, 
Josef Bauer, an authorized tax agent of the Muenchner 
Treuhandgesellschaft KPMG, and who was elected to the 
managing board in 1970, stated that his mandate had 
come from the German company Siemens.  Other 
members of Crypto AG's management had also worked at 
Siemens. Was the German secret service, the 
Bundesnachrichtendienst (BND), hiding behind the 
Siemens' connection?

        So it would seem.  Der Spiegel reported that in 
October 1970, a secret meeting of the BND had discussed 
how the Swiss company Graettner could be guided into 
closer cooperation with Crypto AG, or could even merged 
with it. The BND additionally considered how "the 
Swedish company Ericsson could be influenced through 
Siemens to terminate its own cryptographic business." [6]

	A former employee of Crypto AG reported that he 
had to coordinate his developments with "people from 
Bad Godesberg". This was the location of the "central 
office for encryption affairs" of the BND, and the service 
instructed Crypto AG what algorithms to use to create the 
codes.  The employee also remembers an American 
"watcher", who strongly demanded the use of certain 
encryption methods.

	Representatives from NSA visited Crypto AG 
often. A memorandum of  a secret workshop at Crypto 
AG in August 1975, where a new prototype of an 
encryption device was demonstrated, mentions the 
participation of Nora L. Mackebee, an NSA 
cryptographer. Motorola engineer Bob Newman says that 
Mackebee was introduced to him as a "consultant".  
Motorola cooperated with Crypto AG in the seventies in 
developing a new generation of electronic encryption 
machines.   The Americans "knew Zug very well and gave 
travel tips to the Motorola people for the visit at Crypto 
AG," Newman told Der Spiegel.

	Knowledgeable sources indicate that the Crypto 
AG enciphering process, developed in cooperation with 
the NSA and the German company Siemans, involved 
secretly embedding the decryption key in the cipher text.  
Those who knew where to look could monitor the 
encrypted communication, then extract the decryption key 
that was also part of the transmission, and recover the 
plain text message.  Decryption of a message by a 
knowledgeable third party was not any more difficult than
it was for the intended receiver.  (More than one method 
was used.  Sometimes the algorithm was simply deficient, 
with built-in exploitable weaknesses.)

	Crypto AG denies all this, of course, saying such 
reports are ""pure invention".

	What information was provided to Saddam 
Hussein exactly?  Answers to this question are currently 
being sought in a lawsuit against NSA in New Mexico, 
which has asked to see "all Iranian messages and 
translations between January 1, 1980 and June 10, 1996". 
[7]

	The passage of top-secret communications 
intelligence to someone like Saddam Hussein brings up 
other questions.  Which dictator is the U.S. passing top 
secret messages to currently?  Jiang Zemin?  Boris 
Yeltsin?  

	Will Saddam Hussein again become a recipient of 
NSA largess if he returns to the mass slaughter of 
Iranians?  What exactly is the purpose of NSA anyway?

	One more question:  Who is reading the Pope's 
communications?


Bibliography

[1] John R. MacArthur, Second Front: Censorship and 
Propaganda in the Gulf War, Hill and Wang, New York, 
1992.

[2] Some of the background of this assassination can be 
found in "The Tehran Connection," Time Magazine, 
March 21, 1994.

[3] The Buehler case is detailed in Res Strehle, 
Verschleusselt: der Fall Hans Beuhler, Werd Verlag, 
Zurich, 1994.  

[4] "For years, NSA secretly rigged Crypto AG machines 
so that U.S. eavesdroppers could easily break their codes, 
according to former company employees whose story is 
supported by company documents,"  "No Such Agency, 
Part 4: Rigging the Game," The Baltimore Sun, December 
4, 1995.

[5] Reported in programs about the Buehler case that were 
broadcast on Swiss Radio International on May 15, 1994 
and July 18, 1994.

[6]  "Wer ist der befugte Vierte?":  Geheimdienste 
unterwandern den Schutz von Verschlusselungsgeraten," 
Der Spiegel 36, 1996.

[7] U.S. District Court for the District of New Mexico, 
William H. Payne, Arthur R. Morales, Plaintiffs, v. 
Lieutenant General Kenneth A. Minihan, USAF, Director 
of National Security Agency, National Security Agency, 
Defendant, CIV NO 97 0266 SC/DJS.

November 2, 1997
Web Page: http://www.aci.net/kalliste/






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 89485650@cts.com
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 21:11:59 -0800 (PST)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: Pre- approved Guaranteed Merchant Accounts ! !
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 11:51:14 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Q
Message-ID: <199802151945.UAA25905@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


>Whats up?

Fuck off.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ken Williams 
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 22:11:16 -0800 (PST)
To: vcarlos35@juno.com
Subject: Re: Miller-Rabin prime number testing
In-Reply-To: <19980215.173857.7286.1.vcarlos35@juno.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Sun, 15 Feb 1998 vcarlos35@juno.com wrote:

>Does anyone have any information on the Miller-Rabin probabalistic
>primality test?
>I'm pretty sure its on page 260 of Applied Cryptography 2nd edition, but
>I lent mey copy  to
>someone and he's away.
>Please email me/the list if you have this algorithm.
>Thanks.
>

http://www.altavista.digital.com/cgi-bin/query?pg=q&what=web&kl=XX&q=%22Miller-Rabin%22

83 documents match your query.

TATTOOMAN

/--------------------------[   TATTOOMAN   ]--------------------------\
| ORG: NC State Computer Science Dept    VP of The  E. H. A. P. Corp. |
| EML: jkwilli2@adm.csc.ncsu.edu         ehap@hackers.com             |
| EML: jkwilli2@unity.ncsu.edu           ehap-secure@hackers.com      |
| WWW: http://www4.ncsu.edu/~jkwilli2/   http://www.hackers.com/ehap/ |
| FTP: ftp://152.7.11.38/pub/personal/tattooman/                      |
| W3B: http://152.7.11.38/~tattooman/w3board/                         |
| PGP: finger tattooman@152.7.11.38                                   |
\----------------[   http://152.7.11.38/~tattooman/  ]----------------/






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: owner-cypherpunks
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 02:39:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Turn Your Computer Into a Personal Mail Server
Message-ID: <199802161039.CAA05722@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Look at the Headers in this Message.
If you like what you see read on.

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for more info and ordering info.  
So give us a call today.









From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Rabid Wombat 
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 14:30:30 -0800 (PST)
To: Ken Williams 
Subject: Re: bugged?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



His ISP has probably switched to 56K-capable modems. This sounds like a 
recognition tone (a low "brrrrp" sound).

He could try dialing another number from that phone to see if he gets the
tone, or calling the ISP from another location, such as a pay phone, if 
he feels like experimenting.

"Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean that nobody's out to get you."

;)

-r.w.

On Mon, 16 Feb 1998, Ken Williams wrote:

> anybody have any ideas here?  this is a personal email forwarded to me
> from a friend who *might* have cause to believe he is bugged.  this is
> coming from a .au domain, btw.
> 
> thanx,
> 
> TATTOOMAN
> 
> http://152.7.11.38/~tattooman
> 
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 20:41:23 +0930
> From: XXX@XXX.XXX
> To: jkwilli2@unity.ncsu.edu
> Subject: PGP
> 
> Yo tat,
> 
> I got pgp 5.0. which will not work with your version. Upgrade man :-)
> 
> Oh well I'll tell ya without pgp. It's not that much of a problem the
> question I wanted to ask you (well I hope it's not).
> 
> Anyway, what I wanted to ask you is whether you might know why I'm getting
> a very DISTINCTIVE beep when I connect with my modem to my ISP. The
> beep(only once) comes just after the initial dialup and just before all the
> noise you get before the connection. 
> 
> Sounds wierd and it only started 2 days ago. I never heard a connection
> like this before and I'm wondering whether my phone line is being tapped. 
> 
> Any suggestions ??
> 
> XXXXX
> 
> P.S. Just in case my mail is being read by someone other than
> Tattooman..here's to you (_|_)
> 
> 
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ken Williams 
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 00:52:51 -0800 (PST)
To: Cypherpunks 
Subject: Re:  World-market Crypto for SSL (fwd)
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



suggestions or help with this one?  what do you ppl think?

Regards,

tattooman
http://152.7.11.38/~tattooman

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 11:48:01 -0500
From: XXX
To: Ken Williams 
Subject: Re:  World-market Crypto for SSL

Hi Ken,

	Thanks for the note.  I've got an idea I wanted to bounce off you,
since Tattooman seems a suitably non-corporate persona.  I'm one of those
who believes that the world will be a better place if all people have ready
access to strong crypto, for their own personal musing (for what hope has
democracy -- or individualism, or community -- if people can not safely
muse on unpopular or illicit options, deciding what is right by carefully
considering what is wrong as well as right.)  I also believe that strong
crypto is all that can allow online international commerce, and commerce
and trade is the fundamental alternative to war, armed might, and
spook-driven controls on inter-cultural relationships.)  The core struggle
of our time is likely to be between those who want to rely on from-the-top
bureaucratic control, essentially militaristic control of friends and foe,
and those who trust instead in evolving common needs and mutually
beneficial trade interactions between societies and nations.

	(The fact that the most valuable resource of any future information
age -- intellectual capital, human brainpower -- is much more equitably
distributed among nations than other "natural" resources, like coal, or
gold, also gives me hope for a future in which all nations can offer
intellectual trade-good of value and partake of a health and
profitable-to-all world trade.)

	Here's my thought:  in the immediate future, Fortify (or some
similar freeware product) will offer anyone in the world a chance to
upgrade the tens of millions of export-quality (weak crypto) versions of
Netscape in circulation, to make them strong-crypto products with both SSL
(and soon S/MIME) available to all.

	One of the big questions in how this world-wide struggle between
statist forces who want to restrict individual (and corporate) access to
strong crypto internationally, and those of us who instead want to foster
the widespread use of strong crypto, is how to educate and promote the use
of strong-crypto versions of Netscape (since that is today the upgradable
product available worldwide.)

	What I would like to see is one or several CGI packages which folks
could put on their websites which would quickly alert a user that the
browser he is using has only limited and restricted export-quality weak
crypto, and that he or she should immediately consider upgrading to strong
crypto by obtaining Fortify (or other upgrade packages) from XXX website.
C2, which is accessible through the Fortify website: www.fortify.net has
something like this for SSL.  I'm looking into getting something similar
for S/MIME -- assuming McKay or others get the S/MIME-enhanced version of
Fortify in circulation within a few weeks.

	Any ideas about how to get this going?

	Regards,

		XXX

PS.  Your note caught me as I was thinking this through, so you doubtless
got a more wordy and political response than you expected.  Still, this is
an open issue of great importance, IMNSHO, and I'd be grateful for any
energy or suggestions you might offer.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: search@owedmoney.com
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 04:49:07 -0800 (PST)
To: info@owedmoney.com
Subject: Over 400 Billion Dollars Is Owed To The North American Public!
Message-ID: <199802161235.EAA00189@funds1.fundsrecovery.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



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P.S.  If you wish to be removed from further notifications please reply
by email and include the word remove in the subject heading.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ken Williams 
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 03:21:07 -0800 (PST)
To: hh-chat@gateway-1.secureservers.net
Subject: bugged?
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


anybody have any ideas here?  this is a personal email forwarded to me
from a friend who *might* have cause to believe he is bugged.  this is
coming from a .au domain, btw.

thanx,

TATTOOMAN

http://152.7.11.38/~tattooman

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 20:41:23 +0930
From: XXX@XXX.XXX
To: jkwilli2@unity.ncsu.edu
Subject: PGP

Yo tat,

I got pgp 5.0. which will not work with your version. Upgrade man :-)

Oh well I'll tell ya without pgp. It's not that much of a problem the
question I wanted to ask you (well I hope it's not).

Anyway, what I wanted to ask you is whether you might know why I'm getting
a very DISTINCTIVE beep when I connect with my modem to my ISP. The
beep(only once) comes just after the initial dialup and just before all the
noise you get before the connection. 

Sounds wierd and it only started 2 days ago. I never heard a connection
like this before and I'm wondering whether my phone line is being tapped. 

Any suggestions ??

XXXXX

P.S. Just in case my mail is being read by someone other than
Tattooman..here's to you (_|_)






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 22:19:55 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: high speed management method
Message-ID: <199802160619.HAA26138@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Please teach high speed management method
of block cypher to me.
Thanks






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Xavier Man 
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 05:49:47 -0800 (PST)
To: Ken Williams 
Subject: Re: bugged?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Ascend MAX 4000/4002/4004/etc units running certain code versions emit a
"burp" tone  before they initiate carrier.  If your friends ISP is using
these, then he shouldn't have much to worry about.  A quick way to test
would be to just call up the ISP and ask, though that's a little obvious.
What you can do is go to a payphone and make a call to the ISPs dialup
number and see if it emits the tone then.  If it does, I'd go ahead and
make you next call to the ISP.  Just give some poor schmuck in tech
support a hard time and find out what equipment they use for the dialin
pool.  If it's Ascend, then that's your problem.

Mr. Man - mrman@mybutt.com

On Mon, 16 Feb 1998, Ken Williams wrote:

> anybody have any ideas here?  this is a personal email forwarded to me
> from a friend who *might* have cause to believe he is bugged.  this is
> coming from a .au domain, btw.
> 
> thanx,
> 
> TATTOOMAN
> 
> http://152.7.11.38/~tattooman
> 
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 20:41:23 +0930
> From: XXX@XXX.XXX
> To: jkwilli2@unity.ncsu.edu
> Subject: PGP
> 
> Yo tat,
> 
> I got pgp 5.0. which will not work with your version. Upgrade man :-)
> 
> Oh well I'll tell ya without pgp. It's not that much of a problem the
> question I wanted to ask you (well I hope it's not).
> 
> Anyway, what I wanted to ask you is whether you might know why I'm getting
> a very DISTINCTIVE beep when I connect with my modem to my ISP. The
> beep(only once) comes just after the initial dialup and just before all the
> noise you get before the connection. 
> 
> Sounds wierd and it only started 2 days ago. I never heard a connection
> like this before and I'm wondering whether my phone line is being tapped. 
> 
> Any suggestions ??
> 
> XXXXX
> 
> P.S. Just in case my mail is being read by someone other than
> Tattooman..here's to you (_|_)
> 
> 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: x 
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 08:14:49 -0800 (PST)
To: Ken Williams 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Could be wrong, but mine started beeping when ISP switched to new digital
modems to support 56K.
Now, that obviously doesn't mean he's NOT bugged - but Occam's razor and
all that.


At 06:20 AM 2/16/98 -0500, Ken Williams wrote:
>
>anybody have any ideas here?  this is a personal email forwarded to me
>from a friend who *might* have cause to believe he is bugged.  this is
>coming from a .au domain, btw.
>
>thanx,
>
>TATTOOMAN
>
>http://152.7.11.38/~tattooman
>
>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 20:41:23 +0930
>From: XXX@XXX.XXX
>To: jkwilli2@unity.ncsu.edu
>Subject: PGP
>
>Yo tat,
>
>I got pgp 5.0. which will not work with your version. Upgrade man :-)
>
>Oh well I'll tell ya without pgp. It's not that much of a problem the
>question I wanted to ask you (well I hope it's not).
>
>Anyway, what I wanted to ask you is whether you might know why I'm getting
>a very DISTINCTIVE beep when I connect with my modem to my ISP. The
>beep(only once) comes just after the initial dialup and just before all the
>noise you get before the connection. 
>
>Sounds wierd and it only started 2 days ago. I never heard a connection
>like this before and I'm wondering whether my phone line is being tapped. 
>
>Any suggestions ??
>
>XXXXX
>
>P.S. Just in case my mail is being read by someone other than
>Tattooman..here's to you (_|_)
>
>
>
>




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: eureka@eureka.abc-web.com
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 10:52:28 -0800 (PST)
To: All Eureka! Subscribers: ;
Subject: Eureka! Mon Feb 16 '98
Message-ID: <19980216083643.29514.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 63062395@aol.com
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 22:55:00 -0800 (PST)
To: user@forwarding.com
Subject: *******   Interested in bulk mailing ? ->>> READ THIS!!!   *******
Message-ID: <199802153453CAA8394@post.ur.mx>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Alan Olsen 
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 12:11:07 -0800 (PST)
To: Ken Williams 
Subject: Re: bugged?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980216120541.03d20460@clueserver.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 06:20 AM 2/16/98 -0500, Ken Williams wrote:
>
>anybody have any ideas here?  this is a personal email forwarded to me
>from a friend who *might* have cause to believe he is bugged.  this is
>coming from a .au domain, btw.

Sounds like he has a 56k modem and his ISP just upgraded to the same sort
of 56k modem he has.  That is part of the protocol negotiation.  (In the
future, it will take 30 minutes to finish connecting with a modem, but we
will all get 666k transmission speed over normal phone lines.)

>
>thanx,
>
>TATTOOMAN
>
>http://152.7.11.38/~tattooman
>
>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 20:41:23 +0930
>From: XXX@XXX.XXX
>To: jkwilli2@unity.ncsu.edu
>Subject: PGP
>
>Yo tat,
>
>I got pgp 5.0. which will not work with your version. Upgrade man :-)
>
>Oh well I'll tell ya without pgp. It's not that much of a problem the
>question I wanted to ask you (well I hope it's not).
>
>Anyway, what I wanted to ask you is whether you might know why I'm getting
>a very DISTINCTIVE beep when I connect with my modem to my ISP. The
>beep(only once) comes just after the initial dialup and just before all the
>noise you get before the connection. 
>
>Sounds wierd and it only started 2 days ago. I never heard a connection
>like this before and I'm wondering whether my phone line is being tapped. 
>
>Any suggestions ??
>
>XXXXX
>
>P.S. Just in case my mail is being read by someone other than
>Tattooman..here's to you (_|_)
>
>
---
|              "That'll make it hot for them!" - Guy Grand               |
|"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmermann unites all| Disclaimer:         |
| mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!"  | Ignore the man      |
|`finger -l alano@teleport.com` for PGP 2.6.2 key  | behind the keyboard.|
|         http://www.ctrl-alt-del.com/~alan/       |alan@ctrl-alt-del.com|




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Thomas Junker" 
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 12:39:27 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: bugged?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980216081504.006a9e08@shell15.ba.best.com>
Message-ID: <199802162039.OAA12379@virtual5.c-com.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On 16 Feb 98 at 8:16, x wrote:

> Could be wrong, but mine started beeping when ISP switched to new digital
> modems to support 56K.

Same here.  I assumed it was an answer burp for 56K,
followed by a momentary pause to see if the calling modem
responds and negotiates 56K.  Mine isn't, so after the 
pause the ISP modem puts up standard V.34 answer tone.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Wei Dai 
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 23:08:16 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: payment mix
Message-ID: <19980216211932.17385@eskimo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


A payment mix is like an email mix, but instead of mixing and remailing
emails, it mixes and repays payments. This would be useful when the
payment system itself does not offer anonymity. A payment mix basicly
turns any traceable payment system into an anonymous one.

Payment mixes could be chained for additional security, just like email
mixes. But by using blind signatures this could also be avoided. In that
case the payment mix would be acting like a mini ecash mint. To illustrate
how it would work, suppose Alice wants to give $1 to Bob.

1. Alice pays $1 to the payment mix using the traceable payment system.

2. In exchange, the payment mix issues Alice $1 in blinded (Chaumian)
ecash.

3. Alice gives the ecash to Bob.

4. Bob gives the ecash back to the payment mix.

5. The payment mix pays Bob $1 using the traceable payment system.

Notice that because of blinding, in step 4 the payment mix cannot connect
the ecash it gets from Bob to the ecash it issued to Alice.

This is a pretty simple idea, but I don't remember if we talked about it
here already. If blinding is used, a payment mix would basicly BE an ecash
mint, except the cash it issues would be held only momentarily by its
users. Because its total outstanding liability at any given moment would
be fairly low, a payment mix would only have to be minimally trusted.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: pics@bj.janey.com
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 22:55:31 -0800 (PST)
To: pics@bj.janey.com
Subject: OWN YOUR OWN PAYSITE
Message-ID: <99552677_81166594>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Hi,
    Have you ever wondered how paysites pay up to 10 cents or moreper click? The reason is because all the recurring revenue they have!! If you're interested in starting up your own paysite & can send atleast 3 members per day then take a look at http://www.teennympho.com/rawclicks/pprogram.html!! Only people who are serious about the program should apply ;-)

	Thanx,
		Ryan Lanane





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 17:52:22 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: We've been found out
Message-ID: <199802170151.CAA08654@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Damn! I thought we had everyone fooled.

Some pissant wrote:
Death of a Legend / The Truth About the CypherPunks:
The CypherPunks have long been renowned as standing at the bleeding edge 
of
the burdgeoning computer technology which is rapidly changing the face 
of our
planet and the governmental, civil, and social societies encompassed 
within
this celestial orb.
Harbingers of the Digital Future / Pioneers of Future Technology / etc., 
etc.
Bullshit...
The CypherPunks are rag-tag band of infantile, pseudo-anarchistic, 
pseudo-
cryptic, well-educated shit-disturbers who take great pleasure in 
pissing on
themselves, each other, and the world around them--all the while, 
covering
their motivations and ambitions with high-sounding ideals intended to 
disguise
the fact that none of them ever received proper toilet-training.


The end result?
No matter how high they pile it, how far they spread it, or how badly it 
smells when you step in it, they end up coming off as the Henry 
Kissinger's
of CyberSpace, because no matter how much rotten meat, jalapenos and 
moldy
cheese they eat, they can never manage to crap out anything so vile and 
foul-
smelling that the world-at-large cannot prove prophetic in MeatSpace.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 18:28:58 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: (none)
In-Reply-To: <199802161748.SAA24779@basement.replay.com>
Message-ID: <199802170228.DAA14045@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Anonymous asks:

> If its so easy to make your own biological weapons,
> hoembrewed in a bathtub (or vat or whatever), how
> about posting some web links or pointers?
> 
> If its so easy why haven't more downtrodden
> Americans (there are a lot of loonies in this
> country) tried this stuff out yet?


Because it's so easy to kill yourself doing so.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: U812@swbell.net
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 05:58:29 -0800 (PST)
To: U812@swbell.net
Subject: Phone rates as low as 3cents/min.
Message-ID: <199802171358.HAA16588@pop2.rcsntx.swbell.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 09:32:02 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: crackers
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980217091147.007cae80@otc.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 04:22 PM 2/14/98 EST, Ah1261@aol.com wrote:
>I WOULD LIKE SOME INFO ON PASSWORD CRACKERS EMAIL ME BACK A.S.A.P.
>

ARE PASSWORD CRACKERS LIKE MILK BISCUITS?


------------------------------------------------------------
      David Honig                   Orbit Technology
     honig@otc.net                  Intaanetto Jigyoubu

	Has Nike hired Monica to endorse kneepads yet?





	















From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: rdew@el.nec.com (Bob De Witt)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 10:46:53 -0800 (PST)
To: jkwilli2@unity.ncsu.edu
Subject: Re: Letter of the law
Message-ID: <199802171845.KAA11835@yginsburg.el.nec.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Doesn't the act of taking it across the border, in the laptop, constitute
an act of export??

> From jkwilli2@unity.ncsu.edu Sat Feb 14 02:07:45 1998
> X-Authentication-Warning: c00954-100lez.eos.ncsu.edu: jkwilli2 owned process doing -bs
> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 04:27:29 -0500 (EST)
> From: Ken Williams 
> X-Sender: jkwilli2@c00954-100lez.eos.ncsu.edu
> To: cypherpunks@toad.com
> Subject: Re: Letter of the law
> X-Copyright: The contents of this message may not be reproduced in any form
> X-Copyright: (including Commercial use) unless specific permission is granted
> X-Copyright: by the author of the message.  All requests must be in writing.
> X-Disclaimer: The contents of this email are for educational purposes only
> X-Disclaimer: and do not reflect the thoughts or opinions of either myself
> X-Disclaimer: or my employer and are not endorsed by sponsored by or provided
> X-Disclaimer: on behalf of North Carolina State University.
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> 
> On Fri, 13 Feb 1998, Anonymous wrote:
> 
> >>I'm in El Paso Texas... so close to the border
> >>I can see Old Mex outside my window as I write this..
> >>I'm over there nearly every day for lunch ( I actually
> >>walk there from my house it's so close) If I write
> >>a crypto program on my laptop over there and ftp
> >>it to a web page I have on a server outside the US
> >>will I have avoided the foolish export regs??
> >>Does anyone know of someone trying this before?? 
> >
> >My guess is this:
> >  if it has the name of a US citizen in the copyright
> >notice, it will be assumed to have been made in the
> >US. if the morons even go after you. you still may have
> >a plausable excuse if ever taken to court.
> >after all, you "exported" youself, which is a perfectly
> >legal thing to take out of the country, and "yourself"
> >accidentally spewed a copy of something that couldn't
> >cross the border.
> >I don't think anybody has tried this and been challenged.
> >then again, a lot of us don't have the opportunity.
> >It's easier to ask forgivness than permission...
> >Another easier excuse would be to publish it freely in
> >hardcopy form, and just "happen" to have somebody end up
> >"typing" in your source code abroad, making a legit
> >international copy...
> >-Anon2
> 
> i would think that the big question here, legally, is whether or not you
> would be ustilizing a US ISP and/or cellular provider to make the upload
> of the crypto program to the foreign server via ftp.  as long as all the
> packets stay outside of US borders, in other words, as long as you don't
> use a US ISP and cellular provider, then i don't see how you would be
> violating any laws in this case.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> TATTOOMAN 
> 
> http://152.7.11.38/~tattooman/
> 
Bob De Witt,
rdew@el.nec.com
The views expressed herein are my own,
and are not attributable to any other
source, be it employer, friend or foe.
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ken Williams 
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 10:56:45 -0800 (PST)
To: Bob De Witt 
Subject: Re: Letter of the law
In-Reply-To: <199802171845.KAA11835@yginsburg.el.nec.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Tue, 17 Feb 1998, Bob De Witt wrote:

>Doesn't the act of taking it across the border, in the laptop, constitute
>an act of export??

well, yes, of course.  that was taken for granted in my comments.
likewise, if you go to a tattoo parlor and get the infamous 4 line
crypto-sig tattooed on your ass, then you are classified as a munition,
and you cannot leave the US.

the only relevant question here regards the odds that a US Customs officer
is going to want you to drop your drawers and bend over...
;-)

ken 

>> >>I'm in El Paso Texas... so close to the border
>> >>I can see Old Mex outside my window as I write this..
>> >>I'm over there nearly every day for lunch ( I actually
>> >>walk there from my house it's so close) If I write
>> >>a crypto program on my laptop over there and ftp
>> >>it to a web page I have on a server outside the US
>> >>will I have avoided the foolish export regs??
>> >>Does anyone know of someone trying this before?? 
>> >
>> >My guess is this:
>> >  if it has the name of a US citizen in the copyright
>> >notice, it will be assumed to have been made in the
>> >US. if the morons even go after you. you still may have
>> >a plausable excuse if ever taken to court.
>> >after all, you "exported" youself, which is a perfectly
>> >legal thing to take out of the country, and "yourself"
>> >accidentally spewed a copy of something that couldn't
>> >cross the border.
>> >I don't think anybody has tried this and been challenged.
>> >then again, a lot of us don't have the opportunity.
>> >It's easier to ask forgivness than permission...
>> >Another easier excuse would be to publish it freely in
>> >hardcopy form, and just "happen" to have somebody end up
>> >"typing" in your source code abroad, making a legit
>> >international copy...
>> >-Anon2
>> 
>> i would think that the big question here, legally, is whether or not you
>> would be ustilizing a US ISP and/or cellular provider to make the upload
>> of the crypto program to the foreign server via ftp.  as long as all the
>> packets stay outside of US borders, in other words, as long as you don't
>> use a US ISP and cellular provider, then i don't see how you would be
>> violating any laws in this case.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> TATTOOMAN 
>> 
>> http://152.7.11.38/~tattooman/
>> 
>Bob De Witt,
>rdew@el.nec.com
>The views expressed herein are my own,
>and are not attributable to any other
>source, be it employer, friend or foe.
> 
>

TATTOOMAN

/--------------------------[   TATTOOMAN   ]--------------------------\
| ORG: NC State Computer Science Dept    VP of The  E. H. A. P. Corp. |
| EML: jkwilli2@adm.csc.ncsu.edu         ehap@hackers.com             |
| EML: jkwilli2@unity.ncsu.edu           ehap-secure@hackers.com      |
| WWW: http://www4.ncsu.edu/~jkwilli2/   http://www.hackers.com/ehap/ |
| FTP: ftp://152.7.11.38/pub/personal/tattooman/                      |
| W3B: http://152.7.11.38/~tattooman/w3board/                         |
| PGP: finger tattooman@152.7.11.38                                   |
\----------------[   http://152.7.11.38/~tattooman/  ]----------------/






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Damacus -HHChat 
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 12:40:16 -0800 (PST)
To: hh-chat@gateway-1.secureservers.net
Subject: Re: [HH-CHAT] bugged?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I don't know if there has been any ideas sent in reply to this yet, but it
is possible that this user has an X2 modem (it makes a beep before the
completion of a handshake to detect an X2 serving modem) or possibly a
K56flex (although I've nbever connected using one befire).  

Adios,

-D

On Mon, 16 Feb 1998, Ken Williams wrote:

> anybody have any ideas here?  this is a personal email forwarded to me
> from a friend who *might* have cause to believe he is bugged.  this is
> coming from a .au domain, btw.
> 
> thanx,
> 
> TATTOOMAN
> 
> http://152.7.11.38/~tattooman
> 
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 20:41:23 +0930
> From: XXX@XXX.XXX
> To: jkwilli2@unity.ncsu.edu
> Subject: PGP
> 
> Yo tat,
> 
> I got pgp 5.0. which will not work with your version. Upgrade man :-)
> 
> Oh well I'll tell ya without pgp. It's not that much of a problem the
> question I wanted to ask you (well I hope it's not).
> 
> Anyway, what I wanted to ask you is whether you might know why I'm getting
> a very DISTINCTIVE beep when I connect with my modem to my ISP. The
> beep(only once) comes just after the initial dialup and just before all the
> noise you get before the connection. 
> 
> Sounds wierd and it only started 2 days ago. I never heard a connection
> like this before and I'm wondering whether my phone line is being tapped. 
> 
> Any suggestions ??
> 
> XXXXX
> 
> P.S. Just in case my mail is being read by someone other than
> Tattooman..here's to you (_|_)
> 
> 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Pearson Shane 
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 20:01:52 -0800 (PST)
To: "'Alan Olsen'" 
Subject: RE: bugged?
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Hi Alan,

I thought he was refering to that too, but notice
he says the beep is before the negotiation, just
after the dialing.

Bye for now.

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Alan Olsen [SMTP:alan@clueserver.org]
> Sent:	Tuesday, February 17, 1998 7:06 AM
> To:	Ken Williams
> Cc:	cypherpunks@toad.com; dc-stuff@dis.org;
> hh-chat@gateway-1.secureservers.net
> Subject:	Re: bugged?
> 
> At 06:20 AM 2/16/98 -0500, Ken Williams wrote:
> >
> >anybody have any ideas here?  this is a personal email forwarded to
> me
> >from a friend who *might* have cause to believe he is bugged.  this
> is
> >coming from a .au domain, btw.
> 
> Sounds like he has a 56k modem and his ISP just upgraded to the same
> sort
> of 56k modem he has.  That is part of the protocol negotiation.  (In
> the
> future, it will take 30 minutes to finish connecting with a modem, but
> we
> will all get 666k transmission speed over normal phone lines.)
> 
> >
> >thanx,
> >
> >TATTOOMAN
> >
> >http://152.7.11.38/~tattooman
> >
> >---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 20:41:23 +0930
> >From: XXX@XXX.XXX
> >To: jkwilli2@unity.ncsu.edu
> >Subject: PGP
> >
> >Yo tat,
> >
> >I got pgp 5.0. which will not work with your version. Upgrade man :-)
> >
> >Oh well I'll tell ya without pgp. It's not that much of a problem the
> >question I wanted to ask you (well I hope it's not).
> >
> >Anyway, what I wanted to ask you is whether you might know why I'm
> getting
> >a very DISTINCTIVE beep when I connect with my modem to my ISP. The
> >beep(only once) comes just after the initial dialup and just before
> all the
> >noise you get before the connection. 
> >
> >Sounds wierd and it only started 2 days ago. I never heard a
> connection
> >like this before and I'm wondering whether my phone line is being
> tapped. 
> >
> >Any suggestions ??
> >
> >XXXXX
> >
> >P.S. Just in case my mail is being read by someone other than
> >Tattooman..here's to you (_|_)
> >
> >
> ---
> |              "That'll make it hot for them!" - Guy Grand
> |
> |"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmermann unites all| Disclaimer:
> |
> | mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!"  | Ignore the man
> |
> |`finger -l alano@teleport.com` for PGP 2.6.2 key  | behind the
> keyboard.|
> |         http://www.ctrl-alt-del.com/~alan/
> |alan@ctrl-alt-del.com|




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 17:34:56 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: $10million logic bomb goes off
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980217163006.007a06e0@otc.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



http://biz.yahoo.com/upi/98/02/17/general_state_and_regional_news/nyzap_1.html

Tuesday February 17 4:16 PM EST 

Fired programmer zaps old firm

NEWARK, N.J., Feb. 17 (UPI) _ A disgruntled computer programmer dismissed
from a defense contractor has been arraigned for
allegedly zapping his old firm's computer system in retaliation, causing
losses of $10 million. 

Timothy Lloyd of Wilmington, Del. worked as the computer network programmer
for Omega Engineering Corp., in Bridgeport, N.J. The
company, which has offices in Stamford, Conn., and elsewhere in the world,
produces high-tech measurement and control instruments
used by the U.S. Navy and NASA. 

Lloyd was fired from Omega on July 10, 1996, after working there for about
11 years. Twenty days after his dismissal he allegedly
activated a computer ``bomb'' that permanently deleted all of the company's
design and production programs, costing the company about
$10 million in sales and contracts. 

Philadelphia Secret Service head Danny Spriggs says the $10 million in
damages is believed to be one of the most expensive computer
sabotage cases they have ever investigated. 

Lloyd was also charged with stealing $50,000 in computer equipment from
Omega and taking it home. 

U.S. District Judge William Walls set bail at $25,000 and scheduled trial
for April 20. 

If convicted Lloyd faces up to five years for the sabotage count and up to
10 years for the theft count. He could also be ordered to pay
restitution and fines. 

_- 
------------------------------------------------------------
      David Honig                   Orbit Technology
     honig@otc.net                  Intaanetto Jigyoubu

	Has Nike hired Monica to endorse kneepads yet?





	















From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: press@daltek.net
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 22:42:17 -0800 (PST)
To: press@daltek.net
Subject: Is Your Web Business a Winner?
Message-ID: <199802172247.QAA02202@smokey.redcomet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: rdew@el.nec.com (Bob De Witt)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 18:30:18 -0800 (PST)
To: jkwilli2@unity.ncsu.edu
Subject: Re: Letter of the law
Message-ID: <199802180228.SAA12074@yginsburg.el.nec.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Ken,

I guess I was thinking about the NSA, recording the message and deciding to 
make an example.  They seem to do that occassionally just to keep the rest
of us folks 'in line'.  I can't see the INS even understanding what they 
were looking at, even if you showed them.  "My, my, my!  All those bits are
really in that little box?"  You have to understand the difference between
a 'large possibility' and a 'fat chance', yes?

Now, drugs!  That they understand ...  But a PKI key?  Or, a file??  Or, a
crypto program (especially renamed)???  What piece of this trick question 
am I missing?

Bob De Witt,
 rdew@el.nec.com
The views expressed herein are my own,
and are not attributable to any other
source, be it employer, friend or foe.


> From jkwilli2@unity.ncsu.edu Tue Feb 17 10:56:22 1998
> X-Authentication-Warning: c00954-100lez.eos.ncsu.edu: jkwilli2 owned process doing -bs
> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 13:56:29 -0500 (EST)
> From: Ken Williams 
> X-Sender: jkwilli2@c00954-100lez.eos.ncsu.edu
> To: Bob De Witt 
> cc: cypherpunks@toad.com
> Subject: Re: Letter of the law
> X-Copyright: The contents of this message may not be reproduced in any form
> X-Copyright: (including Commercial use) unless specific permission is granted
> X-Copyright: by the author of the message.  All requests must be in writing.
> X-Disclaimer: The contents of this email are for educational purposes only
> X-Disclaimer: and do not reflect the thoughts or opinions of either myself
> X-Disclaimer: or my employer and are not endorsed by sponsored by or provided
> X-Disclaimer: on behalf of North Carolina State University.
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> 
> On Tue, 17 Feb 1998, Bob De Witt wrote:
> 
> >Doesn't the act of taking it across the border, in the laptop, constitute
> >an act of export??
> 
> well, yes, of course.  that was taken for granted in my comments.
> likewise, if you go to a tattoo parlor and get the infamous 4 line
> crypto-sig tattooed on your ass, then you are classified as a munition,
> and you cannot leave the US.
> 
> the only relevant question here regards the odds that a US Customs officer
> is going to want you to drop your drawers and bend over...
> ;-)
> 
> ken 
> 
> >> >>I'm in El Paso Texas... so close to the border
> >> >>I can see Old Mex outside my window as I write this..
> >> >>I'm over there nearly every day for lunch ( I actually
> >> >>walk there from my house it's so close) If I write
> >> >>a crypto program on my laptop over there and ftp
> >> >>it to a web page I have on a server outside the US
> >> >>will I have avoided the foolish export regs??
> >> >>Does anyone know of someone trying this before?? 
> >> >
> >> >My guess is this:
> >> >  if it has the name of a US citizen in the copyright
> >> >notice, it will be assumed to have been made in the
> >> >US. if the morons even go after you. you still may have
> >> >a plausable excuse if ever taken to court.
> >> >after all, you "exported" youself, which is a perfectly
> >> >legal thing to take out of the country, and "yourself"
> >> >accidentally spewed a copy of something that couldn't
> >> >cross the border.
> >> >I don't think anybody has tried this and been challenged.
> >> >then again, a lot of us don't have the opportunity.
> >> >It's easier to ask forgivness than permission...
> >> >Another easier excuse would be to publish it freely in
> >> >hardcopy form, and just "happen" to have somebody end up
> >> >"typing" in your source code abroad, making a legit
> >> >international copy...
> >> >-Anon2
> >> 
> >> i would think that the big question here, legally, is whether or not you
> >> would be ustilizing a US ISP and/or cellular provider to make the upload
> >> of the crypto program to the foreign server via ftp.  as long as all the
> >> packets stay outside of US borders, in other words, as long as you don't
> >> use a US ISP and cellular provider, then i don't see how you would be
> >> violating any laws in this case.
> >> 
> >> Regards,
> >> 
> >> TATTOOMAN 
> >> 
> >> http://152.7.11.38/~tattooman/
> >> 
> >Bob De Witt,
> >rdew@el.nec.com
> >The views expressed herein are my own,
> >and are not attributable to any other
> >source, be it employer, friend or foe.
> > 
> >
> 
> TATTOOMAN
> 
> /--------------------------[   TATTOOMAN   ]--------------------------\
> | ORG: NC State Computer Science Dept    VP of The  E. H. A. P. Corp. |
> | EML: jkwilli2@adm.csc.ncsu.edu         ehap@hackers.com             |
> | EML: jkwilli2@unity.ncsu.edu           ehap-secure@hackers.com      |
> | WWW: http://www4.ncsu.edu/~jkwilli2/   http://www.hackers.com/ehap/ |
> | FTP: ftp://152.7.11.38/pub/personal/tattooman/                      |
> | W3B: http://152.7.11.38/~tattooman/w3board/                         |
> | PGP: finger tattooman@152.7.11.38                                   |
> \----------------[   http://152.7.11.38/~tattooman/  ]----------------/
> 
> 
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: mark@mtcnet.com
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 18:43:31 -0800 (PST)
To: mark@mtcnet.com
Subject: CAN WE SWAP LINKS?                         ******************Please DO NOT consider this SPAM!******************
Message-ID: <199802180236.SAA26956@pumpkin.cdepot.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Hi, 

It's not a secret that the best way to attract traffic is through links from other sites. We currently have apx. 250 links from other sites TO US! This is nothing compared to Yahoo which has over 800,000 links from other sites. We are setting up a links page and offering a link to every domain or page that links to us. 

If interested visit our site at: http://www.mtcnet.com. If our site is ok link to us and send back your site address and category as IT WOULD FIT ON OUR LINK PAGE AT: http://www.mtcnet.com/links/ and we will link back to you. You should link to our main page: www.mtcnet.com and we will link to your main page.

Our site currently gets apx. 30,000+ views a month. 

Thanks,

Mark Cushman

P.S. We reserve the right as to which sites we will link back to, ie. no pornographic or related sites. If it's OK for my kids we will link back.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: The Sheriff 
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 19:06:36 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Handling spam
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


For those of you who use mail-reading/downloading softs
that let you filter your messages based on header/body 
content (ie Eudora, ect), I've found a helpfull tool
that assists in the filtering out of spam.

If the Sender: header is "owner-cypherpunks@toad.com"
and the To: line does not contain the list address, you
can easily get a lot of the spam that comes through here.
I've resigned myself to creatively filtering out the spam
into the trash folder (or your equivilent, like deleting)
and leaving it at that, because of time constraints.

Best wishes and fresh-roasted peanut taste,
The Sheriff. -- ******
---
As kinky as this sounds, finger sheriff@speakeasy.org 
for my RSA PGP public key and my ICQ UIN.  If you don't
know what a UIN is, head on over to http://www.icq.com :)
---
Any and all commercial e-mail will be subject to a $5000
downloading, archival and consulting fee.  Cash/MO only.
Refusals will result in a default judgement of $10,000
and persuit from my favorite collection agency. NO SPAM!
---
     --- BEGIN INFLAMATORY BLOCK ---
Version: 0 (Survivors)
Comments: I was stewing about cliques when the rhyming
          bug bit.

          Watch them gather,
          watch them play.
          Watch the mailman
          blow them away.
     ---  END INFLAMATORY BLOCK  ---






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: rdew@el.nec.com (Bob De Witt)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 21:14:31 -0800 (PST)
To: anon@anon.efga.org
Subject: Stupid Law
Message-ID: <199802180443.UAA12254@yginsburg.el.nec.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Yes, it is.  Even if he wrote a program in Mexico, but carried his laptop
back and forth daily, each piece can come into the US, but cannot leave
again!  Uuuuuuuuummmmmmm, gooooood!  Read the actual documents.


Bob De Witt,
rdew@el.nec.com


> From anon@anon.efga.org Tue Feb 17 19:44:29 1998
> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 22:08:26 -0500
> From: Anonymous 
> Comments: This message did not originate from the Sender address above.
> 	It was remailed automatically by anonymizing remailer software.
> 	Please report problems or inappropriate use to the
> 	remailer administrator at .
> To: cypherpunks@toad.com
> 
> >Doesn't the act of taking it across the border, in the laptop, constitute
> >an act of export??
> 
> Well, yes it would, but the original scenario includes WRITING the code
> outside of the US, which means it never was a US creation, even if the
> creature that happened to be writing the code was native to the US.
> 
> The question is whether the dude could pull a stunt like this and get
> away with it. I'd say go for it. You got a plausible loophole to a
> stupid law that might not hold in court anyways.
> 
> -Anon
> 
> 
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Global Web Builders 
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 03:35:51 -0800 (PST)
To: (Recipient list suppressed)
Subject: Pauline Hanson's One Nation update
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980217095822.006d3428@mail.pronet.net.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Dear One Nation Supporter in New South Wales,

Hard copy of Helen Dodd's book:
==============================
I was surprised to learn that small number of the limited edition, numbered
(150) copies of Helen Dodd's book "Pauline, the Hanson Phenomenon" signed by
Pauline Hanson are still available. They will definitely be sold out after
this post so get in quick.

The cost is Au$75 each and send you emails to:

camint@geocities.com

(As a matter of interest a $20 copy of Pauline Hanson's "The Truth" recently
sold for $250.)

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
One Nation birthday party:
=========================
For those of you ***who are members of Pauline Hanson's One Nation*** we are
holding a celebration of the party's first anniversary over the Easter
Weekend (April 10-12) on Pauline's rural property near Ipswich in South East
Queensland. In true Australian style camping and bar-b-ques under the
starlit sky will be the order of the day. There will be competitions,
entertainment like bush dancing, karaoke and horse racing - and much, much
more. 

If you are interested please contact (07) 3369 8214, 3848 2197, 3399 6662 or
3399 6901 for details.

Costs range from $25 per day for adults or just $45 for the three. Families
from $55 for the one day to $85 for the three.

Book before you put this one in your diary - once again very limited
numbers! Max of 400 people to be accepted.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Raffle tickets going fast:
=========================
The first prize is a QANTAS Global Explorer Holiday for two valued at
$12,000 - a 23 day trip visiting Paris, London, New York, Los Angeles,
Anaheim and Honolulu.

The second prize is a 7 day holiday to Hawaii at the Outrigger Reef Hotel
for two - value $5,000.

The third prize is a 7nights stay at the Novotel Palm Cove at Cairns - value
$3,000.

You can order a book of 5 tickets (minimum) at $10 per book (or $2 per
ticket) by credit card by phoning 1800 620088.

Winner's names being drawn at One Nation's Birthday Party at 7pm on April
11th 1998.

Winners will be notified by phone and mail with the results being published
in the Sydney Morning Herald on Friday 17th April 1998.

Order now while tickets remain!
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Finally important Internet addresses:

Pauline Hanson's One Nation:
http://www.gwb.com.au/onenation

One Nation Press Releases (about 10 in the last month):
http://www.gwb.com.au/onenation/press/

One Nation on-line history (the first year):
(We will be updating this site live from the party on Pauline's property
during the Easter weekend in April):
http://www.gwb.com.au/gwb/news/history

GWB



Scott Balson





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Trans World Specials" 
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 16:54:00 -0800 (PST)
To: Trans World Airlines Customers 
Subject: Trans World Specials Fare Sales
Message-ID: <19980217210008.25649.qmail@inet2.twa.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Welcome to Trans World Specials for 
 February 17th, 1998. 
 
 All tickets must be purchased by February 
 20th, 1998. Domestic fares are valid for outbound
 travel 2/21/98 and returning 2/23 or
 2/24/98.  New York to Milan fare is valid
 for outbound travel 2/20 or 2/21/98 
 and returning 2/24/or 2/25/98. 
 
 We have great fares to help you enjoy	
 the weekend. Relax on the beaches of 
 San Diego, or stroll the world class 
 shopping district in Milan. 
 
 
 On to this week's Trans World Specials.
 
 
 Roundtrip fare:		From:		To:
 
 $248			New York (JFK)	Milan(MXP)
 
 
 Out International fare is valid FROM New York TO Milan only.  As usual, 
 Domestic fares may originate in either city. 
 
 
 Roundtrip fare:		To/From:
 
 $69			St. Louis, MO (STL) / Nashville, TN (BNA)
 $69			St. Louis, MO (STL) / Cedar Rapids, IA (CID)
 $69			St. Louis, MO (STL) / Dayton, OH (DAY)
 
 
 $79			St. Louis, MO (STL) / Oklahoma City, OK (OKC)
 $79			St. Louis, MO (STL) / Shreveport, LA (SHV)
 $79			St. Louis, MO (STL) / Knoxville, TN (TYS)
 $79			Nashville, TN (BNA) / Cedar Rapids, IA (CID)
 
 
 $99			Nashville, TN (BNA) / Oklahoma City, OK (OKC)
 
 
 $129			Cedar Rapids, IA (CID) / Ontario, CA (ONT)
 $129			Newark, NJ (EWR) / Cedar Rapids, IA (CID)
 $129			Newark, NJ (EWR) / Oklahoma City, OK (OKC)
 $129			Newark, NJ (EWR) / Shreveport, LA (SHV)
 $129			Newark, NJ (EWR) / St. Louis, MO (STL)
 $129			Oklahoma City, OK (OKC) / Dayton, OH (DAY)
 
 
 $159			Dayton, OH (DAY) / Ontario, CA (ONT)
 $159			Dayton, OH (DAY) / San Diego, CA (SAN)
 $159			St. Louis, MO (STL) / Ontario, CA (ONT)
 $159			St. Louis, MO (STL) / San Diego, CA (SAN)
 $159			Ontario, CA (ONT) / Shreveport, LA (SHV)
 
 
 Call TWA at 1-800-221-2000 and book your Trans World Special today !
 
 
 
 ***********************************GETAWAY VACATIONS********************
 
 
 HAWAII OUTRIGGER MAILE SKY COURT INCLUDES:
 
 - roundtrip economy airfare
 - 5 nights accommodations at the Maile Sky Court
 - all rooms have refrigerator, cable TV and in-room movies
 - hotel features T.G.I. Friday's restaurant
 - 3 blocks from Waikiki beach
 - 2000 bonus FFB miles in addition to actual miles earned
 - only $599 from New York, Philadelphia, and Miami
 - only $659 from St. Louis
 
 
 BEST OF EGYPT FROM $2999 INCLUDES:
 
 - 7 night Nile Cruise
 - visit Cairo, Alexandria, Dendera, Luxor, Aswan, Abu, Simbel, Sakkara, Memphis
 - all meals while cruising
 - buffet breakfast daily
 - roundtrip economy airfare to Cairo
 - economy air tickets Cairo-Luxor, Aswan-Abu, and Simbel-Cairo
 - depart 3/27/98 from Chicago, St. Louis, Houston, Detroit, or Cleveland
 - 5000 bonus FFB miles in addition to actual miles earned
 
 Call 1-800-GETAWAY(438-2929) and book your Getaway Vacation today !
 
 
 
 ************************************ALAMO*******************************
 
 Alamo offers these low rates for an economy car valid 2/21/98 - 2/23/98
 
 
 $17.99		St. Louis, Dayton, Oklahoma City, 
 
 $20.99		Nashville, Newark, Shreveport, Knoxville
 
 $21.99		San Diego, Ontario
 
 For reservations call Alamo at 1-800-GO-ALAMO and request rate code RT
 and ID # 443833. For online reservations visit Alamo at
 http://www.goalamo.com
 
 
 ***********************************HILTON*******************************
 
 Hilton Hotels/Resorts offers this low rate valid the nights of 2/21/98-
 2/23/98.
 
 
 $93		Fort Lee Hilton, Fort Lee, NJ ( only 10 miles from Manhattan)
 
 
 For reservations call Hilton at 1-800-774-1500 and ask for Hilton Value Rates.
 Visit Hilton at http://www.hilton.com
 
 
 ******************************TERMS AND CONDITIONS**********************
 
 
 Airfare Terms and Conditions: 
 GENERAL CONDITIONS: Fares shown are round trip, nonrefundable and 
 are subject to change. Changes to itinerary are not permitted.
 Fares do not include Passenger Facility Charges of up to $12 
 depending on itinerary. Offer is not available in conjunction with 
 any other discount, coupon or promotional offer. Seats are limited 
 and may not be available on all flights or days of the week. Tickets 
 must be purchased at time of booking and no later than 2/20/98. 
 Standby passengers not allowed.  DOMESTIC: Valid for outbound travel 
 on Saturday (2/21) and return Monday (2/23) or Tuesday (2/24). 
 Travel is effective 2/21/98 with all travel to be completed by 
 2/24/98. Minimum stay is 2 days. Maximum stay is 3 days. Must use 
 E-Ticketing for domestic travel. Credit card is the only form of 
 payment accepted. 
 
 INTERNATIONAL: Valid for outbound travel on Friday (2/20) or Saturday 
 (2/21) and return Tuesday (2/24) or Wednesday (2/25). Travel is 
 effective 2/20/98 with all travel completed by 2/25/98. A $47 fee 
 for customs/immigration/APHIS fee/U.S. departure tax and security
 surcharges apply. An additional Italian departure tax of $9.00 also 
 applies. Tickets must be purchased at time of booking and no later than
 2/20/98. 
 
 Getaway Conditions: 
 ALL PACKAGES: Package includes round-trip economy airfare. Price is per 
 person based on double occupancy and is subject to change.  
 Availability, restrictions, surcharges, blackouts and cancellation 
 penalties apply. No other discounts or promotions are valid in 
 conjunction with these packages. 
 
 DOMESTIC CONDITIONS: Depart for Hawaii Wednesday or Thursday and return 
 Monday or Tuesday. Travel is valid 4/15-5/28/98 with all travel 
 completed by 6/3/98. Price does not include Passenger Facility Charges 
 of up to $16 per person. Full payment due by 2/20/98. 
 
 INTERNATIONAL CONDITIONS: Seats are limited and may not be available on 
 all flights. Price does not include Passenger Facility Charges, US 
 departure/arrival, agriculture and security fees from point of origin 
 of travel up to approximately $68 per person. Single suppliment $499. 
 Full payment is required by 2/23/98. 
 
 Car Rental Conditions: 
 Taxes (including in California, VLF taxes ranging up to $1.89 per day), 
 registrations fee/tax reimbursement, and airport access fees/taxes, if
 any, are extra. Optional CDW, liability insurance, fuel, additional 
 driver fee, drop charges and other optional items are extra. Rates 
 higher for renters under age 25. Rates valid for rentals commencing
 on Saturday and ending by 11:59 PM on Tuesday. Rates only valid during
 week in which they are published via TWA Internet site. A 24-hour 
 advance reservation is required. Availability is limited. 
 
 Hotel Conditions: 
 Hilton Hotels and Resorts special rates are available only during the 
 specific week in which they are published via the TWA Hot Deals 
 Internet site and the HiltonNet Internet site. Limited availability; 
 rooms at these Hilton Value Rates are sold on a first-come, 
 first-served basis. Availability, rate, and terms of occupancy are 
 not guaranteed and will be confirmed at time of reservation. 
 Participating hotels, rates and terms are subject to change without 
 notice. Single or double occupancy. Early check-in, late check-out 
 subject to availability. No extra charge for children when they 
 stay in parents' or grandparents' room; total room occupancy 
 subject to local fire safety regulations and other applicable laws 
 or regulations. Rates vary by season, do not include any other fees 
 or charges, including without limitation state or local taxes or 
 gratuities and are subject to change without notice. Advance booking 
 required. Advance deposit may be required. Offer cannot be combined 
 with any other special discounts, coupons, certificates, special 
 rates, promotional offers, award stays, or meeting/group stays.  
 Hilton reserves the right to cancel any Hilton Value Rate at any 
 time without notice. Hilton is not responsible for the terms of 
 other offers in the program, or for any electronic, computer, 
 telephone, security, virus or any other problem or damage related 
 to use of the program or its offers. 
 
 
 
 For reservations call 1-800-221-2000 (domestic) or 1-800-892-4141 
 (international) or call your travel agent and ask for TWA's special 
 Internet fares. 
 
 Remember to ask for Trans World(r) Electronic Ticketing when you 
 book your special Internet fare! 
 
 
 
 






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: rlbrye@daltek.net
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 19:02:41 -0800 (PST)
To: rlbrye@daltek.net
Subject: FREE Pentium II Computer!!!
Message-ID: <199802180257.VAA11204@apollo.redcomet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


You have been selected to receive this message because of your presence on
the World Wide Web.  If you wish to be removed from future mailings, please reply
with the subject  "Remove" and your address will be blocked from  future mailings.
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 19:03:41 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <6c52fc4fbf1b77f88e3aeb3fffb90659@anon.efga.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


>Doesn't the act of taking it across the border, in the laptop, constitute
>an act of export??

Well, yes it would, but the original scenario includes WRITING the code
outside of the US, which means it never was a US creation, even if the
creature that happened to be writing the code was native to the US.

The question is whether the dude could pull a stunt like this and get
away with it. I'd say go for it. You got a plausible loophole to a
stupid law that might not hold in court anyways.

-Anon






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 20:31:18 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <2d903692314a67a27cf3a173ba82fd9f@anon.efga.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


nobody@REPLAY.COM wrote:
-----------------------------------------------------
Here is description of my stream cipher, it operates one
...
...
VB source code:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

------------------------------------------------------
Who the hell uses VB of all languages - to write
a crypto algorithm? And, which sane person uses
MicroSucks Winduhz? 






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: sneakpreview@amninc.nu
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 02:05:10 -0800 (PST)
To: user@yourdomain.com
Subject: Sneak Preview!!!
Message-ID: <199802182461ZAA53904@post.sec.com.sg>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


CLICK HERE
with the word GO in the subject line
for a sneak preview of an incredible new website
with over 200,000 music CDs, cassettes and more,
at the lowest prices on earth.  For example:

* "Show Me Love" CD single by Robyn
* elsewhere $3.95; our price $2.63

* "Tubthumping" CD by Chumbawumba
* elsewhere $12.99; our price $10.40

* "To the Moon & Back" cassette by Savage Garden
* elsewhere $3.99; our price $2.48

We ship worldwide with low shipping charges,
usually $3 for up to six CDs or cassettes.

You must CLICK HERE
with the word GO in the subject
line to receive advance notice.  You will *not*
receive future e-mail from this address unless
you reply.










From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 01:06:30 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: I was auto-outed by an IMG tag in HTML spam
In-Reply-To: <37a52bf54844994eb90c8e8af06b07b7@anon.efga.org>
Message-ID: <199802180937.EAA10267@users.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In <37a52bf54844994eb90c8e8af06b07b7@anon.efga.org>, on 02/18/98 
   at 03:00 AM, Anonymous  said:

>Use mail readers that don't automatically process HTML and
>connect to image servers, accept cookies, or run javascripts.  You are
>being watched by tricky defective, er, detective types. es.

Several things here:

1. HTML in mail:

There is just no place for this crap in e-mail. If multipart/alternative
is used it is tolarable but pure text/html messages go into the bitbucket
with a autoreply explaining to the poster the error of their ways. :)

I was pleasently suprised that MS Outlook actually makes use of the
multipart/alternative format (M$ actually got it right for once). Net$cape
does not and will blindly send out text/html messages (after all everyone
uses a web browser to read their mail) and Eudora was doing the same thing
though they may have fixed this (I talked to John about this when I was at
the IETF in DEC).

2. AutoProcessing of Attachments:

This is *allways* a BadThing(TM). Not only is it an obvious security risk
it is a PITA for the user. I would be rally pissed if my mailer launched a
V-Card app everytime someone thought it was a GoodThing(TM) to add these
attachments to every message they sent out.

3. AutoDownloading of Data:

I imagine what happend here is the internal logic for N$ mailreader when
processing a html/text e-mail message is to treat it just like a WebPage
and processes it accordingly.

IMHO a mail client that is going out to an external site to DL data wether
it be part of a html/text message or Message/External-Body the mailer
should prompt the user on wether or not he wishes to retreive the data.

My recomendations is to dump the Netscape garbage and get a real e-mail
client. Netsacpe has done a good job at screwing up the web we really
don't need the same favor from them with e-mail.

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html                        
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: Friends don't let friends use Windows.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3a-sha1
Charset: cp850
Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000

iQCVAwUBNOqWz49Co1n+aLhhAQE77gP/U2a/px/oEZGr9HD/FXvmzHH1DGF2E3mx
0WApF3FX2Y6s0MwBaY/t/YisZwyjki6T/xSqd2qVuADeh5sdXYN9Fd6sIon42SX2
4PBvq+HjsKNKlptASjN3x0l3RK8l7Yis47gB3igiA8m8JKMyevm7Vu1bhg572PTA
Kfy8V1J9gYI=
=onje
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 23:55:29 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: I was auto-outed by an IMG tag in HTML spam
Message-ID: <37a52bf54844994eb90c8e8af06b07b7@anon.efga.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I just had my on-line pseudonym outed to my company's VP of
marketing, with potentially serious internecine political
consequences.  It didn't even take an AOL customer service rep
to do the dirty deed.  Here's how it happened.

I have an account unconnected with work, for personal mail, on a
machine run by a friend in my wife's department at the local
college.  From this account, I speak my mind about my political
views, my employer's spamming of their rather loosely defined
lists of "customers", etc.  I don't do that from my work account
because I don't want any confusion about whether I am speaking
for the company or not.

Evidently my mention of my displeasure with my company's
spamming hit a nerve with marketing.  They sent a message to my
off-site address (along with those of other critics about whom
they wanted to know more).  It was an HTML message with an
embedded IMG tag.

Last night about midnight, I downloaded my off-site mail with
Netscape.  (I was still at work because our team is debugging
some killer database problems.)  When Netscape saw that IMG
tag, it happily connected to marketing's "customer" tracking
server, and downloaded the keyed graphic.

My boss just let me see the log he got from the marketing VP,
showing clearly that my workstation read the message.  The log
was attached to a strident call for my head from the VP. 
Luckily, my boss agrees with my attitude, as do all of my
co-workers on the engineering side of the house, and thinks I
was in the right to use an off-site account.  But the political
fallout could be interesting.

Beware "live" message content.  If you don't, you may end up
having to get your company's entire marketing force fired to
protect yourself.

Use mail readers that don't automatically process HTML and
connect to image servers, accept cookies, or run javascripts. 
You are being watched by tricky defective, er, detective types.
es.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 77224.who@cygnus.com
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 03:07:31 -0800 (PST)
To: 77224.friend@cygnus.com
Subject: 167 business and financial reports -53016
Message-ID: <199802181107.DAA12232@cygint.cygnus.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


////////////////////////////////////////////////////
If you wish to be removed from this advertiser's future mailings, please reply with the subject "Remove" 
and this software will automatically block you from their future mailings.
///////////////////////////////////////////////////


To: ENTREPRENEUR		
     From:    REGINALD J. WILLIAMS	
     Subject: 167 BUSINESS REPORTS
    
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        POST OFFICE BOX 42091
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 19:04:31 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: description of my stream cipher
Message-ID: <199802180304.EAA02881@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Subject:      description of my stream cipher
From:         Jouni Vuorio 
Date:         1998/02/17
Message-ID:   <34E9D794.371@vtoy.fi>
Newsgroups:   sci.crypt

[Subscribe to sci.crypt] 
[More Headers]


Here is description of my stream cipher, it operates one
byte at time, instead of one bit at time.
it´s key length is up to 255 bytes (2040 bits)

im sure that there are no need for longer description,
becourse that vb source code explanes details.
only thing that could be difficult to understund is
Asc(Mid(Text2, R2 - 1, 1)) that simppely means that
take asci value from text (in this case string text2)
starting from R2 - 1 and length of 1. i think that
everyone understunds the rest.


VB source code:

Initializing the substitution-box
On Error Resume Next

D = Len(Key)
R = 1

For R2 = 1 To 256
H1 = Asc(Mid(Text2, R2 - 1, 1))
K1 = Asc(Mid(Text2, R, 1))
K2 = Asc(Mid(Text2, D Mod Len(Text2), 1))
K3 = Asc(Mid(Text2, D * R Mod Len(Text2), 1))
K4 = Asc(Mid(Text2, R + D Mod Len(Text2), 1))

R1 = ((R1 + R2 + K + 1) Xor (R1 * R2 + 1)) Mod 256
R3 = ((R3 + R1 + 1) + R2 + (R1 * K + 1 Mod (R3 + R1 + 1))) Mod 256
R4 = (R4 + R3 + R1 + 1) ^ 2 Mod 256

R = R + 1
If (R - 1) = Len(Text2) Then R = 1

C = (C + (H1 + K1 + K2 + K3 + K4 + D + R1 + R3 + R4) Mod 256) Mod 256
C = C Mod 256


SBox = SBox & Chr(C Mod 255 + 1)
Next






On Error Resume Next

Key = Text2
texti = Text1
Text1 = ""


R = 1
S1 = Len(Key)
S2 = 11
For R2 = 1 To Len(texti)
C = Asc(Mid(texti, R2, 1)) - 1
K = (K + Asc(Mid(Key, R2 Mod Len(Key), 1))) Mod 256
K = (K + Asc(Mid(SBox, (((K * R2 Mod 256) - 255) * -1) Mod 257, 1))) Mod
256

R1 = ((R1 + R2 + K) Xor (R1 * R2)) Mod 256
R3 = ((R3 + R1) + R2 + (R1 * K Mod (R3 + R1))) Mod 256
R4 = (R4 + R3 + R1) ^ 2 Mod 256


F1 = (F1 + (Asc(Mid(SBox, R1 Mod 256, 1)) Mod 256) Mod 256)
F2 = (F2 + (Asc(Mid(SBox, R2 Mod 256, 1)) Mod 256) Mod 256)
F3 = (F3 + (Asc(Mid(SBox, R3 Mod 256, 1)) Mod 256) Mod 256)
F4 = (F4 + (Asc(Mid(SBox, R4 Mod 256, 1)) Mod 256) Mod 256)
F5 = (F5 + (Asc(Mid(SBox, K Mod 256, 1)) Mod 256) Mod 256)
temp = F1 + F2 + F3 + F4 + F5 + M Mod 256
F = (F + (Asc(Mid(SBox, temp, 1)) Mod 256) Mod 256)

M = M + 1
If M = 2 Then M = 0


If M = 0 Then C = C Xor ((F + K) Mod 256)
If M = 1 Then C = C Xor ((((F + K) Mod 256) - 255) * -1)


C = (C Mod 256) + 1


Mid(texti, R2, 1) = Chr(C)
Next



Text1 = texti

-- 
Jouni.vuorio@vtoy.fi             GSM 050-5456235
PahaeNTeistä soNTaa viNTiöt peNTteihin aseNTavat...






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Trei, Peter" 
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 07:19:48 -0800 (PST)
To: "'Anonymous'" 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


This can also happen with embedded tags in news messages,
if you use Netscape to read news while 'autoload images'
is turned on.

It's an interesting form of entrapment. 

Peter

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Anonymous [SMTP:anon@anon.efga.org]
	[Trei, Peter]  [edited]
> They sent a message to my
> off-site address (along with those of other critics about whom
> they wanted to know more).  It was an HTML message with an
> embedded IMG tag.
> 
> When Netscape saw that IMG
> tag, it happily connected to marketing's "customer" tracking
> server, and downloaded the keyed graphic.
> 
> My boss just let me see the log he got from the marketing VP,
> showing clearly that my workstation read the message.  




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "awbd@awbd.com" 
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 10:17:51 -0800 (PST)
To: (Recipient list suppressed)
Subject: Commercial delegate in Egypt
Message-ID: <199802181900.LAA24797@ghs1.greenheart.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Feb. 18th 1998. 

.                   

Dear Sirs,
     
I have the pleasure to enclose herewith a copy of my C.V. introducing myself
to you as a person of very good experience in Freight Forwarding &
International Transportation and in the different commercial services
related thereto; and proposing myself for representing your company in Egypt
and the Middle East as its own local resident COMMERCIAL DELEGATE looking
after your interests and projects in this area.
As a matter of fact, among lots of investors, many international freight
forwarding & transportation companies have started their own presence in
Egypt seizing the opportunity of the economic reformation achieved in this
area; as now is the right time for business starting in Egypt.
Starting with Commercial Delegation I foresee our final target, in case my
proposal meets your interest, is to develop that delegation into the full
operating company's branch in Egypt. That is to be achieved gradually by
time, but as quickly as possible, through building a good account of clients
and by selecting and training an efficient professional work team.
In addition to my  qualifications shown in my enclosed C.V., I am actually a
USA resident as per the Green Card I have got for lawful admission for
permanent residence in America (Employment Authorized). Such advantage is
considered as a good asset for a person appointed by an American company to
represent it as its own Commercial Delegate in the area where he was grown
up. Speaking their own language and understanding their mentality and the
way they think, such delegate can move among the company's correspondents &
agents, its clients, the local official authorities, and any other concerned
parties to intervene, for his company's favor, to avoid any probable
problems and to enhance the company's achievements in this area.
For any further details and/or information, please feel free and do not
hesitate to contact me through any of the contact means listed among my
personal data in my C.V. attached hereto. You may also contact me, for the
time being and until Feb. 24th when I leave back to Egypt, through my
address in USA which is as follows:
915 Mount Olive Dr.  #3
Duarte,   CA 91010
Tel & Fax (626) 357 0243
E-mail: info@awbd.com
Looking forward to getting the honor of working with your esteemed company,
I wish you all the best and remain
faithfully yours. 


 Isaac  Youssef


CURRICULUM VITAE
PERSONAL DATA:

Name:			   Isaac Youssef Atiya
Nationality; 		   Egyptian
Place and date of birth:    Cairo, On Oct. 5th 1951
Marital Status:		   Single
Education Degree:	   B.Sc. Cairo University
Contact Address:	   PO Box  #15
			   Al- Afdal Post Office
   Cairo-11627,  Egypt.

Tel:			   00202-235-3997
Fax:			   00202-236-7413
E-mail:                            andyeg@eis.egnet.net 	 
 
JOB HISTORY & BUSINESS EXPERIENCE:

Jan. 1st. 94 - Currently:
PARTNER and MANAGER of CFT Int'1., CENTRE DU FRET ET DU TRANSPORT
INTERNATIONAL, which is actually an extension of GONDRAND Egypt     (A
former company mentioned below). As CFT Int'l., I represented the following
companies:
= SDV group, including SCAC, TTA, & ATT				France 
= TRANSCAP INTERNATIONAL					France
= GEFCO								France

Aug, 15th 91 - May 31st  94
The GENERAL MANAGER, and the only ACTIVE PARTNER of GONDRAND Egypt, one of
the most leading freight forwarding agents and the international transport
companies working in Egypt. As GONDRAND Egypt, I was the agent of many world
wide companies such as :
= S.F.T. GONDRAND FRERES					France
= MACH + 								France
= SAVING SHIPPING & FORWARDING 				Italy
= UTC, UNION TRANSPORT CORPORATION			USA
= UAT, UNION AIR TRANSPORT					Europe
= DSL, DISTRIBUTION SERVICES LTD				USA
= GEFCO								France
= TRUST FREIGHT							USA


Sep. 1st  88 - Aug. 14th 91:
During that period, besides managing an export- import group consisting of 3
sister companies, I worked in the following companies:
= DMC, the Egyptian daughter company of DOLLFUS MIEG ET CIE, one of the most
leading world wide French threads manufacturers, in which I worked as the
MATERIALS / INFORMATION FLOW & PURCHASING MANAGER. My duties included the
following:
1-  Supplying and furnishing both of the clients of the company and its
employees with whatever they needed of information, materials, services, and
/or products.
2-  Controlling the flow of all the materials imported or locally purchased.
3-  Supervising the import formalities and regulations with Banks, Customs
and Governmental authorities, Air and Maritime lines, and Freight Forwarding
agents.
4-  Supervising purchasing and maintenance of the company assets through
different contractors, suppliers, and services companies.
5-  Controlling the circulation of raw materials and products.
= AMECO, an Egyptian freight forwarder which, in the same time, represents
ships owners. In AMECO I had the position of the ASSISTANT MANAGER of Cairo
branch.    
= MEDTRANS, The Egyptian correspondent of a group of European and American
freight forwarding companies, such as the French company S.F.T. GONDRAND
FRERES, And the American company DANIEL F. YOUNG Inc.. In MEDTRANS I had the
position of the EXECUTIVE MANAGER.

Feb. 1st 80 - Aug. 31st 88 :
A SUPERVISOR and a DEPARTMENT HEAD in MFA - MISR FREIGHT AGENCIES - The
Egyptian branch of the world wide DANZAS company for international
transportation and freight forwarding - which had, at that time, 450 offices
distributed in 42 countries with the head office in Switzerland.
In MFA- DANZAS Egypt - I supervised the following departments:
1-  Sea Freight Dep. (Conventional and General Cargo, and Containerized
Shipments).
2-  Air Freight Dep.
3-  Projects Transport Dep.
4-  Transit Goods & Distribution Dep.
5-  Fairs & International Exhibitions Transport Dep.
6-  The Local Operations & Inland Road Transport Dep.
7-  Besides the above, I supervised some special inter-branches relations
between MFA and the other world wide branches of DANZAS group.
      
Before MFA was founded, I worked in the above capacities for the COMMERCIAL
DELEGATION OF DANZAS in Egypt.




Sept. 78 - Jan. 31st 80:
	The DIRECTOR ASSISTANT of CENTER FOR EGYPTIAN CIVILIZATION STUDIES, in
which I supervised the following:
1-  Planning & Execution of programs
2-  Administration
3-  Public Relations
4-  Correspondence
5-  Translation

OTHER QUALIFICATIONS:

= Courses in MANAGEMENT SKILLS FOR SUPERVISORS AND DEPARTMENT
HEADS organized by Monadonck International Limited - London, for
International Management Development.
=  A seminar and a long training course in PROJECTS TRANSPORT, SEA FREIGHT,
and INLAND ROAD TRANSPORT in  DANZAS  branch in Zurich city, and in  AIR
FREIGHT in its branch in Kloten airport of Zurich.
= Courses in BUSINESS ADMINISTRATION including FINANCE FOR NON- FINANCIAL
MANAGERS, AN INTRODUCTION TO COST ACCOUNTING, and BASIC PRINCIPLES OF
FEASIBILITY STUDIES. These courses were organized by The Egyptian-German
Association for Economical and Social Development of The Arab-German Chamber
of Commerce in Cairo, among the Business Administration Program in Egypt
sponsored by Konrad-Adenauer Foundation.
=  Write and Speak English language.
=  Some courses in French language, and still studying.
= Traveled in Business Trips to many  countries, such as Switzerland, UK,
France, Germany, Turkey, and USA.
=  Active, Head Working, Ambitious, and willing for constant movement &
traveling.
=  Fond of creating new businesses in Egypt.

    Signature 

Isaac Youssef


PS:
Besides the ordinary transport activities and the services related to the
freight forwarding business, I represent my clients in the various official
authorities, e.g. Customs Authority; Investment Authority, General
Organization for Fairs & International Exhibitions, Egyptian General
Petroleum Corporation, National Authority for Wire and Wireless
Communications, Traffic Administration, The Import Rationalization Committee
of the Ministry of Foreign Trade, Banks, Embassies, and Chambers of
Commerce......etc.. 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "David Lopes" 
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 13:57:23 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <000701bd3c71$98a40920$c2e941c2@vladimix>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Subscribe


From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Nightmare 
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 21:38:47 -0800 (PST)
To: jkwilli2@unity.ncsu.edu
Subject: Re: bugged?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199802180534.QAA07609@mulder.smug.adelaide.edu.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


> 
> anybody have any ideas here?  this is a personal email forwarded to me
> from a friend who *might* have cause to believe he is bugged.  this is
> coming from a .au domain, btw.
> 
> thanx,
> 
> TATTOOMAN
 
> I got pgp 5.0. which will not work with your version. Upgrade man :-)
> 
> Oh well I'll tell ya without pgp. It's not that much of a problem the
> question I wanted to ask you (well I hope it's not).
> 
> Anyway, what I wanted to ask you is whether you might know why I'm getting
> a very DISTINCTIVE beep when I connect with my modem to my ISP. The
> beep(only once) comes just after the initial dialup and just before all the
> noise you get before the connection. 
> 
> Sounds wierd and it only started 2 days ago. I never heard a connection
> like this before and I'm wondering whether my phone line is being tapped. 
> 
> Any suggestions ??
> 
> XXXXX
> 
> P.S. Just in case my mail is being read by someone other than
> Tattooman..here's to you (_|_)
> 

What have you been doing wrong??  :)

Anyway suggestions are;

1) You can use a voltage check , if you want, but there are ways around that..

Someone actually emailed the list a while back re overcoming this problem,
email me privately if you are still looking and ill dig up the schematics
for it for you. but you can use a modified power up system to maintain the
initial voltage level.

2) Or, have fun with the possibilty.

Get a good friend in with you, one you can trust, and one you can ring at 
any hour..

It takes upto two weeks to transcribe a recorded phone conversation, unless
you are involved with drugs. which is the next part of the good time. talk about
drug dealing and arms trading , prostition etc, with your friend for the next 2-3
weeks. he can call you from a public phone.
then one night ring him up, in a mad panic, claiming that you just 
caught somone trying to break into your house, and you clubbed him over
the head and killed him. then make plans for him to help you dispose of
the body and have a human shaped "thing" in a bag that you can then carry out
at night to his car..

If your phone is being taped you should have a police escort all ready to help
you load the car...

Time consuming but a sure thing  ;)
trust me...

The other option is using a reprogrammed mobile phone for just those kind of 
conversations, but thats naughty....

or buying the optus card package, aus only, for about $70-00, which gives
you a simm card and sixty dollars worth of calls.. phone is not supplied.

hurry though, as the feds want these cards to be name registered, as they can 
presently be bought with no ID.. great for those untraceable dealings...

Well thats about it without thinking.

If you need help , to tattooman's friend, email me privately.
from one OZ to another..

Seeya.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    _/    _/ _/_/_/  _/_/_/  _/    _/ _/_/_/_/ _/    _/  _/_/_/  _/_/_/   _/_/_/
   _/_/  _/   _/   _/    _/ _/    _/    _/    _/_/_/_/ _/    _/ _/    _/ _/
  _/ _/ _/   _/   _/       _/_/_/_/    _/    _/ _/ _/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/   _/_/
 _/  _/_/   _/   _/  _/_/ _/    _/    _/    _/    _/ _/    _/ _/    _/ _/
_/    _/ _/_/_/   _/_/_/ _/    _/    _/    _/    _/ _/    _/ _/    _/ _/_/_/
                     _/   "The meek shall inherit the Earth,
                  _/_/     But it is the strong and powerful who shall rule it"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------



                                                 
                                                   

   




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: overseas@4link.net
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 02:33:35 -0800 (PST)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: AN EXCITING OVERSEAS JOB IS WAITING FOR YOU!
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: jenni@biznetandmarketing.com
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 12:44:29 -0800 (PST)
To: chris@ste.net.de
Subject: your request
Message-ID: <42719674_84637763>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Thank you for your request.  

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--------------------------------------------------------
*          This is an autoresponded message.           *
--------------------------------------------------------









From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: sunder 
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 08:53:56 -0800 (PST)
To: Information Security 
Subject: Re: Is spam really a problem?
In-Reply-To: <199802182107.QAA00482@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <34EC98A6.363D0100@brainlink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Information Security wrote:

>    >   From sunder@brainlink.com Wed Feb 18 15:58:46 1998
>    >
>    >   Anonymous wrote:
>    >   >
>    >   > I see discussion of spam here and everywhere on
>    >   > the net. But who finds it a *real* problem, and
>    >   > why?
> 
> Why are you asking the cypherpunks list?

I didn't. Anonymous did.  
 
>    >   There are nice technical solutions to this.  If sendmail didn't transport
>    >   things unauthenticated it could be done, but at a cost in CPU cycles on mail
>    >   servers:
>    >
>    >   Have every sendmail server use a PK scheme to talk to every other
>    >   server and authenticate the connection.  Have every sendmail server accept
>    >   mail only from those whose key is verified.
> 
> Nonsense.
> 
> We (NANA) already know where spam comes from,
> and when we complain about it, they are terminated.

Until someone else gets a throw away $10 account and uses it to 
spam, right?  By the time you track'em down, they already gave up
that account.  All ISP's do is to delete the spamming account, which
the spammer doesn't care about anyway.  So you achive nothing.

Further one can generate fake headers and you would not know exactly where
it comes from, though you could have some idea since it would be one of
many sites it was relayed from.  One could send messages from an ISP
that doesn't mind spammers who won't help you track down the bitch that
just slimed your machine, etc.

 
> PK authentication would change nothing.
> 
> Show a single spam with a forged IP address.

IP addresses won't be forged, but one could send
a mail with extra Recieved-By: headers, etc.
 
> PK authentication would only lead us down the
> road of everyone being tattooed with barcodes
> of our own making - and incredibly dumb idea.
> 
> It would be like requiring a smart card for Internet access.

Bullshit.  PK auth with a central repository would be Big Brotherish.
Having each user gen their own PK pair is what I suggested. That
would allow anon users to have persistant (or even throw away)
identities, but prevent Joe Spambitch from telnetting to port 25
and spamming that way.

Even if Joe Spambitch does gen PK pairs and uses them, he can't
gen a pair for every message he sends, the recipient servers won't
recognize his PK pair and might have been instructed to block messages
from bad (and possibly unknown PK's), or at least refuse to relay
messages from unknown PK's.  Relaying is a big problem.

-- 

=====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos==============
.+.^.+.|  Ray Arachelian    |Prying open my 3rd eye.  So good to see |./|\.
..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were      |/\|/\
<--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run  |\/|\/
../|\..| "A toast to Odin,  |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/.
.+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were....            |.....
======================= http://www.sundernet.com ==========================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "postmaster" 
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 16:41:10 -0800 (PST)
To: opentown@mail.opentown.com
Subject: (żŔÇŸżî °řÁö¸ŢŔĎ)żŔÇÂÄ"Áöłë °ćÇ° ´ëŔÜġ!
Message-ID: <9802200305.AA21758286@mail.opentown.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


HTTP://WWW.OPENTOWN.COM

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Á¦Ŕ۵Ę)
´ŮŔ1/2 ŔĚşĄĆ(r) : żŔÇÂÄ"Áöłëżˇ1/4­´Â "ő*Îżî °ÔŔÓŔ¸*Î Áö1/4ÓŔűŔÎ ŔĚşĄĆ(r) Çŕ"縦
°łĂÖÇŇ żąÁ¤ŔÔ´Ď´Ů. 
¸ąŔĚ ±â´ëÇŘ ÁÖ1/41/4żä... 

ŔçąĚŔÖ´Â ą"*áäĆõµ 1/4­şń1/2ş ÁßŔÔ´Ď´Ů.
żŔÇ Ä"Áöłëżˇ1/4­´Â Gostop, Slot, Baccarat, Roulette, Drawpoker,
BlacJackµî ´Ů3/4çÇŃ Ä"Áöłë °ÔŔÓŔ" 
ą"*á*Î 1/4­şń1/2ş ÁßŔÔ´Ď´Ů.  ĆŻČ÷ °í1/2şĹéŔş ÇŞÁüÇŃ °ćÇ°ŔĚ °É*ÁŔÖ´Â ŔĚşĄĆ(r)ş¸´Ů
´ő ŔαⰡ ¸ąŔş
°ÔŔÓŔ¸·Î łĘą"łŞ ¸ąŔş şĐµéŔĚ Áń±â°í ŔÖ1/2Ŕ´Ď´Ů.  ¸·ż¬Č÷ µµąÚŔ̶ó´Â
°íÁ¤°üłäŔ" ąö¸(r)°í 1/4ř1/4öÇŃ °ÔŔÓŔ¸*Î Áń°Üş¸1/41/4żä.
´Ů¸Ą Ä"Áöłë °ÔŔÓµµ °č1/4Ó °łąßÁßŔ̸ç ÇöŔç´Â 1/4şŔÎżë °ÔŔÓ¸¸ 1/4­şń1/2ş ÁßŔĚÁö¸¸ 
°đ Ă"1/4ŇłâµéŔ" Ŕ§ÇŃ °ÔŔÓµµ °łąßÇŘ 1/4­şń1/2ş ÇŇ żąÁ¤ŔÔ´Ď´Ů.

Good Luck!

http://www.opentown.com






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: classic@ix.netcom.com
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 13:48:50 -0800 (PST)
To: research@infoname.com
Subject: A Bit About Your Last Name
Message-ID: <199802201053.EAA01696@dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Global Web Builders 
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 13:57:41 -0800 (PST)
To: (Recipient list suppressed)
Subject: One Nation birthday raffle
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980219235351.00b3131c@mail.pronet.net.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Dear One Nation Supporter,

We are currently selling tockets for One Nation first birthday raffle.

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11th 1998.

Winners will be notified by phone and mail with the results being published
in the Sydney Morning Herald on Friday 17th April 1998.

Order now while tickets remain!





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: info@inexchange.net (Info Desk)
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 16:33:54 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Advertisement: Website Hosting
Message-ID: <19980220172300666.AGT297@out.inexchange.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: dstoler@globalpac.com (dstoler)
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 05:52:35 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Request for Web Browser Information
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I would like to know the information my browser makes available to web sites. I use both Netscape and Internet Explorer.

Obviously web sites can determine my IP address for any given session; they can also look at cookies left by themselves and other sites.

Can anyone point me to where I can learn exactly what other information is made available (browser version?, OS version?, system name?, user name?, etc.)?

Thanks in advance.

David






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: netcenter-news@netscape.com
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 06:04:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Welcome to Netcenter!
Message-ID: <199802211404.GAA07734@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Dear Netcenter Member, 

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Please note: Netscape respects your online time and Internet privacy. If you would prefer not to receive
future issues of Netcenter News, please reply to this message with the word "unsubscribe" in the subject
line





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ken Williams 
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 04:45:29 -0800 (PST)
To: Information Security 
Subject: Re:  Fwd: Big Brother Sees through walls (from the spyking list)
In-Reply-To: <199802202304.SAA05606@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Fri, 20 Feb 1998, Information Security wrote:

>   >   From: sunder 
>   >   
>   >   1)From: "George Martin" 
>   >   Subject: News Release: High-Tech Surveillance
>   >   
>   >   Here's a sampling of how state and federal agencies are using this
>   >   terrifying technology to spy on Americans:
>   >   
>   >   * In North Carolina, county governments use high-resolution spy satellite
>   >   photographs to search for property improvements that might increase
>   >   property tax assessments.
>
>Was this cost authorized by taxpayers?
>

I have lived in Raleigh, North Carolina my entire life (over 30 yrs).
County governments consist of an elected board of commissioners who have
the power to make such decisions and expenditures without holding public
hearings on these matters.  Unless the local media jumps on one of these
proposals weeks in advance, nobody will even know about it or have an
opportunity to petition for a public hearing.  Once the county
commisioners vote on and approve it, our money is spent and the public has
no recourse (until the next election).  Here in Raleigh, Wake County, NC,
for instance, we have a Republican county commissioner and a board of
members.  When I heard from his daughter, a personal friend, about his
plans to cut funding to drug education and rehab programs and redirect all
of those funds to the county prison system, I decided to act.  I contacted
the commissioner himself, his office, and even had lunch with his wife and
daughter to discuss this issue.  As a family friend, I thought I would at
least be able to get a friendly, receptive ear.  His wife and daughter
were in full agreement with me, but the commissioner dismissed all of my
suggestions and pleas.  In fact, he told me that I was "high on crack" for
even suggesting that he *not* cut spending to drug education and rehab
programs.  i then appealed to the media, the public, and various county
drug rehab and education facilities and tried to petition for public
hearings on the issue.  After getting stonewalled by the GOP-controlled
county board of commissioners, funding to drug rehab and education
programs was cut by over 50%.  Since that time (two years ago), drug
arrests and convictions, violent crime, murder, non-violent crimes,
and admissions to treatment centers have all risen, in all of the basic
statistical measurement categories.

Wake county taxes have increased dramatically (almost 50%), and we have
just completed building a new county jail and several county jail annex
facilities.  In both percentage and numbers, our county jail population is
at the highest rate it has ever been.

On a related note, seven of the Wake county sherriff's deputies, who all
had laptop computers (with Internet access) in their cruisers, were
recently busted for spending all of their time on the clock surfing the
web and going to porno websites and adult chatrooms.  One of the deputies
has been arrested for using a sherriff's department scanner to scan in a
picture of his genitals which he then sent to a young girl, a minor, from
his cruiser while on duty.

Additionally, the officer in charge of the weapons armory for the
sherriff's department, which contains full-auto weapons such as the HK MP5
and the M16, was recently dismissed because it was discovered that he had
been spending all of his time on the clock in another section of the
building surfing adult sites on the web.  Meanwhile, the armory was left
unlocked, deputies were unable to get their weapons serviced within a
reasonable period of time, and an M16 "disappeared".

My tax dollars at work...

>
>No amount of control over the population is enough for the U.S. Government.
>---guy
>

Next...i'll fill you in on some of the more interesting discoveries I made
while working for the NC Dept of Crime Control and Public Safety.  They
don't need satellites to watch you here in Raleigh...they have hi-tech,
hi-res cameras perched on top of all the tallest buildings, in the
projects, at selected street corners, and various other points.

so much for your privacy...

TATTOOMAN

/--------------------------[   TATTOOMAN   ]--------------------------\
| ORG: NC State Computer Science Dept    VP of The  E. H. A. P. Corp. |
| EML: jkwilli2@adm.csc.ncsu.edu         ehap@hackers.com             |
| EML: jkwilli2@unity.ncsu.edu           ehap-secure@hackers.com      |
| WWW: http://www4.ncsu.edu/~jkwilli2/   http://www.hackers.com/ehap/ |
| FTP: ftp://152.7.11.38/pub/personal/tattooman/                      |
| W3B: http://152.7.11.38/~tattooman/w3board/                         |
| PGP: finger tattooman@152.7.11.38                                   |
\----------------[   http://152.7.11.38/~tattooman/  ]----------------/






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 07:08:46 -0800 (PST)
To: Bill Stewart 
Subject: Re: I was auto-outed by an IMG tag in HTML spam
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980220184839.008d4b50@popd.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <199802211540.KAA14217@users.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In <3.0.5.32.19980220184839.008d4b50@popd.ix.netcom.com>, on 02/20/98 
   at 09:48 PM, Bill Stewart  said:

>>   at 03:00 AM, Anonymous  said:
>>>Use mail readers that don't automatically process HTML and
>>>connect to image servers, accept cookies, or run javascripts.  You are
>>>being watched by tricky defective, er, detective types. es.
>>
>>Several things here:
>>
>At 02:32 AM 2/18/98 -0500, William H. Geiger III wrote:
>>1. HTML in mail:
>>There is just no place for this crap in e-mail. If multipart/alternative
>>is used it is tolarable but pure text/html messages go into the bitbucket
>>with a autoreply explaining to the poster the error of their ways. :)

>HTML is a fine format for email.  It's ASCII readable, and supports
>content description tags that the user's mail reader can render as
>bold/italic/underline/header-levels//color/etc.  It's far superior to
>using bloated undocumented Microsoft Word attachments. 95% of the HTML
>email I get IS spam, but that's a separate problem :-) (After all,
>SPAMMERs like bright colored blinking attention-getting mail.)

Yes but who needs all this crap in e-mail?? E-Mail is a messaging protocol
not a protocol for large documents (HTML is not sutable for large
documents either but that is for another rant).

WARNING: This is the only time you will see me say somthing good about
MickySloth.

I must admit that atleast MS Outlook follows the RFC's and makes use of
multipart/alternative when sending out HTML formated messages so others
are not forced to use a webbrowser to read their mail (unlike Net$cape or
Eudora).

There is no place for HTML in e-mail plain and simple. I do not wan't to
have to load a huge bloated bugfilled webbrowser just to process my e-mail
messages.

>>My recomendations is to dump the Netscape garbage and get a real e-mail
>>client. Netsacpe has done a good job at screwing up the web we really
>>don't need the same favor from them with e-mail.

>Netscape mail is adequate for many people, just as Eudora is. Newer
>versions are pretty bloated, but including S/MIME mail encryption for
>everybody is a Good Thing.

Now this is really scary. You consider pushing weak 40bit S/MIME on the
internet users a GoodThing(TM)? I think you need to sit down and rethink
this one Bill.

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html                        
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
  Hi
 
Tag-O-Matic: Have you crashed your Windows today?

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3a-sha1
Charset: cp850
Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000

iQCVAwUBNO7gPo9Co1n+aLhhAQEE4QQAkukbQzy1Dtw6g/vunMEBZ2o0tLs97lzw
oOAv01R/clFfPEOS64Zk+Yk+EZPg9vp++tLzgpijMOBEz0/pyEnSE3/9mCukhMm/
iQcaUy03eLm6wjK9hDOG04ktS69mVCgK49b9pmPDCdTXJz+MhNBgbenebNGa+97k
eVaA0mNCgcM=
=jjnj
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Joshua Kunken 
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 10:59:15 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Request for Web Browser Information
Message-ID: <199802211859.KAA19501@uclink4.berkeley.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Sure, check out:  http://www.autobahn.org/main/addr.shtml

What year is it? 1984? hehhehe

Lates...

At 05:51 AM 2/21/98 -0800, you wrote:
>I would like to know the information my browser makes available to web
sites. I use both Netscape and Internet Explorer.
>
>Obviously web sites can determine my IP address for any given session;
they can also look at cookies left by themselves and other sites.
>
>Can anyone point me to where I can learn exactly what other information is
made available (browser version?, OS version?, system name?, user name?,
etc.)?
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>David
> 

Joshua Kunken
Administrative Computing
jkunken@uclink4.berkeley.edu

"100% uptime? You betcha!"





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "James A. Donald" 
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 18:41:25 -0800 (PST)
To: Anonymous 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


    --
At 06:49 PM 2/19/98 -0500, Anonymous wrote:
> An article in the current issue of the German journal 
> `Datenschutz und Datensicherheit' claims that exporting 
> crypto software from anywhere outside the US to a third 
> country violates US law if the software contains (only 
> marginal amounts of) US-developed code, such as a C  
> standard library, and that anyone distributing crypto 
> software that has been compiled with an American compiler 
> had better not visit the United States.  Is that true?

No one knows what the laws on cryptography in the US are, 
least of all the courts or the lawyers.

There is a law against exporting armaments, or indeed doing 
diddly squat with armaments, and the bureaucrats have decreed 
crypto an armament, however they have displayed profound 
reluctance to take this issue to court, so the implications 
of such a law, and such a definition remain entirely unknown.

However since no one has yet been actually indicted, it is 
unlikely that you will be the first.  

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     MukYGG/TcTpm9PDncEpXfT4BfC8t7mVXt7WWsJtm
     42je0WMVidgZLmeFqZcxiIvUBWPKVWWUER4SS70Ko
 ---------------------------------------------------------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because of 
the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this right, 
not from the arbitrary power of the state.

http://www.jim.com/jamesd/





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: fnorky@geocities.com (Douglas L. Peterson)
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 10:59:32 -0800 (PST)
To: Ken Williams 
Subject: Re: Fwd: Big Brother Sees through walls (from the spyking list)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <34f12039.131228245@smtp.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Sat, 21 Feb 1998 07:45:20 -0500 (EST), you wrote:

>
>On Fri, 20 Feb 1998, Information Security wrote:
>
>>   >   From: sunder 
>>   >   
>>   >   1)From: "George Martin" 
>>   >   Subject: News Release: High-Tech Surveillance
>>   >   
>>   >   Here's a sampling of how state and federal agencies are using this
>>   >   terrifying technology to spy on Americans:
>>   >   
>>   >   * In North Carolina, county governments use high-resolution spy satellite
>>   >   photographs to search for property improvements that might increase
>>   >   property tax assessments.
>>
>>Was this cost authorized by taxpayers?
>>
>
>I have lived in Raleigh, North Carolina my entire life (over 30 yrs).
>County governments consist of an elected board of commissioners who have
>the power to make such decisions and expenditures without holding public
>hearings on these matters.  Unless the local media jumps on one of these
>proposals weeks in advance, nobody will even know about it or have an
>opportunity to petition for a public hearing.  Once the county
>commisioners vote on and approve it, our money is spent and the public has
>no recourse (until the next election).  Here in Raleigh, Wake County, NC,
>for instance, we have a Republican county commissioner and a board of
>members.  When I heard from his daughter, a personal friend, about his
>plans to cut funding to drug education and rehab programs and redirect all
>of those funds to the county prison system, I decided to act.  I contacted
>the commissioner himself, his office, and even had lunch with his wife and
>daughter to discuss this issue.  As a family friend, I thought I would at
>least be able to get a friendly, receptive ear.  His wife and daughter
>were in full agreement with me, but the commissioner dismissed all of my
>suggestions and pleas.  In fact, he told me that I was "high on crack" for
>even suggesting that he *not* cut spending to drug education and rehab
>programs.  i then appealed to the media, the public, and various county
>drug rehab and education facilities and tried to petition for public
>hearings on the issue.  After getting stonewalled by the GOP-controlled
>county board of commissioners, funding to drug rehab and education
>programs was cut by over 50%.  Since that time (two years ago), drug
>arrests and convictions, violent crime, murder, non-violent crimes,
>and admissions to treatment centers have all risen, in all of the basic
>statistical measurement categories.
>
>Wake county taxes have increased dramatically (almost 50%), and we have
>just completed building a new county jail and several county jail annex
>facilities.  In both percentage and numbers, our county jail population is
>at the highest rate it has ever been.
>
>On a related note, seven of the Wake county sherriff's deputies, who all
>had laptop computers (with Internet access) in their cruisers, were
>recently busted for spending all of their time on the clock surfing the
>web and going to porno websites and adult chatrooms.  One of the deputies
>has been arrested for using a sherriff's department scanner to scan in a
>picture of his genitals which he then sent to a young girl, a minor, from
>his cruiser while on duty.
>
>Additionally, the officer in charge of the weapons armory for the
>sherriff's department, which contains full-auto weapons such as the HK MP5
>and the M16, was recently dismissed because it was discovered that he had
>been spending all of his time on the clock in another section of the
>building surfing adult sites on the web.  Meanwhile, the armory was left
>unlocked, deputies were unable to get their weapons serviced within a
>reasonable period of time, and an M16 "disappeared".
>
>My tax dollars at work...

May I suggest trying what we did here in Colorado.  Take a look at our
Taxpayers Bill of Rights.  No government in Colorado (state, county or
local) can raise taxes without putting the measure before the public
for a vote.  We have, for the time being, tied the hands of the
government.  They can't just spend money and expect to raise taxes to
cover the short fall.

It took 5 state wide elections to amend the constitution, but the
public finely wised up.  Each election, the State would promise to
change their spending habits.  They broke that promise every time,
once within days of the election.

We have also, on a few occasions, amended our state constitution to
force the government to fund specific items (Education for one) before
any other items may be funded.

If your North Carolina allows the public to patition to have a measure
put before the public in an election, try doing it.  It's not perfect,
but it might send a clear message to the government.

-Doug

p.s.
  Please forgive the grammar errors.  I suffer from using a Microsoft
spelling checker that likes to change the meaning of my words.
-------------------
Douglas L. Peterson
mailto:fnorky@geocities.com
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Heights/1271/





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: fnorky@geocities.com (Douglas L. Peterson)
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 11:06:39 -0800 (PST)
To: ulf@fitug.de (Ulf Möller)
Subject: Re: "carefully monitor the Internet"
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <34f223bb.132126550@smtp.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Fri, 20 Feb 1998 18:38:04 +0100 (GMT+0100), you wrote:

>
>   To keep pace with the fast-moving money launders, FAFT said it would
>   carefully monitor the Internet and so-called electronic purse systems,
>   whereby cash is passed from person to person via electronic chips,
>   leaving no audit trail in its wake.
>
>http://www.yahoo.com/headlines/980212/wired/stories/money_2.html
>http://www.oecd.org/fatf/

Hmm, lets see.  I login using secure shell.  Now I start a SSL session
to someplace where I want to exchange money.  Next I use e-cash.  The
monitor will see encrypted garbage.

Quick, kick in the door.  He is using encryption!  Must be money
launders!

-Doug


-------------------
Douglas L. Peterson
mailto:fnorky@geocities.com
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Heights/1271/





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ken Williams 
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 19:56:40 -0800 (PST)
To: dstoler 
Subject: Re: Request for Web Browser Information
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Sat, 21 Feb 1998, dstoler wrote:

>I would like to know the information my browser makes available to web sites. I use both Netscape and Internet Explorer.
>
>Obviously web sites can determine my IP address for any given session; they can also look at cookies left by themselves and other sites.
>
>Can anyone point me to where I can learn exactly what other information is made available (browser version?, OS version?, system name?, user name?, etc.)?
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>David
>
>
>

check these out...

Your Environmental Variables
http://152.7.11.38/~tattooman/variable.cgi

Your Privacy Online
http://www4.ncsu.edu/~jkwilli2/browserscript.html

So Much for your Privacy...
http://www4.ncsu.edu/~jkwilli2/main/NO_Privacy.html


if you want copies of any of these scripts and snippets, then feel free to
grab them off of my ftp server at
ftp://152.7.11.38/pub/personal/tattooman/
check in the "javascript", "java" and "code" subdirectories.

email me if you have any questions, comments, etc...

regards,

TATTOOMAN

/--------------------------[   TATTOOMAN   ]--------------------------\
| ORG: NC State Computer Science Dept    VP of The  E. H. A. P. Corp. |
| EML: jkwilli2@adm.csc.ncsu.edu         ehap@hackers.com             |
| EML: jkwilli2@unity.ncsu.edu           ehap-secure@hackers.com      |
| WWW: http://www4.ncsu.edu/~jkwilli2/   http://www.hackers.com/ehap/ |
| FTP: ftp://152.7.11.38/pub/personal/tattooman/                      |
| W3B: http://152.7.11.38/~tattooman/w3board/                         |
| PGP: finger tattooman@152.7.11.38                                   |
\----------------[   http://152.7.11.38/~tattooman/  ]----------------/






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Kmiller@aol.com
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 00:52:37 -0800 (PST)
To: customer@isp.com
Subject: $:)$
Message-ID: <97269476_54455892>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



WARNING: THIS IS REAL !!
Pass This Up Lightly And You'll Be Making
One Of The Biggest Mistakes Of Your Life!

----FREE----FREE----FREE----FREE----
REGISTERED version of NetContact
     Retails for $300 and up
This bulk E-mail software will EXPLODE your business
----FREE----FREE----FREE----FREE----

ALL I DO IS MAIL OUT 10 OF THE EXACT SAME SALES
LETTER EVERYDAY !!

That is all I do! I earn $140,  $200, even $250 a day mailing out
the exact same sales letter! There is absolutely no catch or crazy
gimmick involved here, I promise you. This has nothing to do with
any ridiculous  envelope stuffing program, illegal chain-letter scam
or worthless multi-level scheme!

There is not an easier way to make $140 a day than this- if you
would like to gain financial independence and success, listen up...

I tried every moneymaking plan under the sun. After a couple years
of constant attempts at striking it rich, I had done nothing but
strike out.

I tried multi-level marketing... I failed!
I tried chain letters... They failed me!
I tried envelope stuffing... What a joke!

I figured I could afford the $30 or $40 for each of the programs I
tried; until I realized not only does that build up, but I was making
no money in the mean time. Bills piled up and the future started
looking bleak.

Luckily a friend informed me of this program, which turned my
finances around. Not only is it profitable, but immensely profitable
with only an hour or two a day worth of work!

Here is what my 3 diskette program includes:

1) NetContact bulk mail software- REGISTERED
2) Master copies of my Special Sales Letters that
     make $140 per day
3)Complete business startup guides
4)Complete instructions and internet access to our secret website

As you can see, for only $20, you are getting a complete business
system with all the support you need! In the past I have licensed
this system for $79.95. Available only for Windows95 and NT.

cut here____________________________________________

I want to receive $140 every time I mail out 10 copies of the
same sales letter that you will supply. Please rush me your
Every-Day Cash Plan!! Enclosed is the $20 dollar cost.

Send $20 cash or check to: 	HyperReal
				Box 136
				2051 Richmond Road Suite 125
				Lexington, KY 40502

Make checks payable to HyperReal
				
				
Name_________________________________________________

Address_______________________________________________

City__________________________________________________

State/Province______________ Zip/Postal code_______________

Country if other than U.S._________________________________





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: MikeF@sbbsonline.com
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 06:02:26 -0800 (PST)
To: MikeF@sbbsonline.com
Subject: Your WEB Site should pay you...
Message-ID: <2077628_24777421>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Should you have your business on the WEB?

Introducing:

The WEB Site that pays YOU!


You know the old story.  Your ISP promises a free WEB site.  You try a personal site and then a great idea comes to you.  I can put my business on the WEB!  But then the story changes.  For commercial use, your ISP wants to charge you a monthly fee.  Well, that's OK, you think.  But then for a commercial site that represents your business, you want something flashy and professional looking.  Don't know how?  Never fear - your friendly ISP will be happy to do it for you for a BIG PRICE!  Then, every time you want to change something, more money to pay out!

People often pay out anywhere from $50 to  $thousands to have a WEB site designed for them because they don't know how to do it themselves.  They then pay $30 to $100 per month for the ISP to " host" or "maintain" their WEB page.  They then get nickled and dimed to death for changes to their own page!

We can change all that.  We have professional WEB pages that you don't pay a fortune for.  They can be made with simple to use, professionally designed templates, that a 6th grader could use!  You don't pay a monthly "hosting" fee, you change the messages, graphics, or even the whole look of the site ANYTIME you want, easily, and with no charges.  If you want to get fancier, you can, with a direct edit mode.

And best of all, this WEB site (with up to 100 pages for YOUR business) PAYS YOU!

This WEB site takes the "value added" concept to the internet.  Your WEB Site, that promotes YOUR business, is actually a store front to one of the internet's fastest growing virtual malls.  When people enter the mall through your storefront and make purchases through their secure payment system, the mall pays YOU a commission.

For more information, send  E-MAIL to     mikef@sbbsonline.com     with just the word     "webinfo" (without the quotes) in the subject line  or visit us at:

http://www.wimall.com/skyshop

Remember,  99% of all Internet Sites on the Web are just that...SITES!. This website is the first to make money for EVERY owner!

If this message offends you, please pardon the intrusion - if you would kindly reply to this message with just the word "remove" in the subject line, you will automatically be removed from this database.

Thank you for your time...




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 09:49:04 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: CIA Blasts Bay of Pigs Op
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980222175049.006808d4@pop.pipeline.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


The NY Times reports today that the National Security Archive 
has obtained under FOIA the sole remaining copy of the
CIA's 1962 Top Secret survey of the Bay of Pigs disaster. 
The highly critical document is termed one of the most secret 
documents of the cold war. We've put a copy of the article at:

   http://jya.com/cia-pigs.htm

The full declassified docs are at:

   http://www.seas.gwu.edu/nsarchive

They are entirely in JPG images, over 400 of them. We're
transcribing to ASCII but it will take a day or two.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bove@rockument.com (Tony Bove)
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 13:51:10 -0800 (PST)
To: fobb-followers@toad.com
Subject: Update
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hello all you FOBBheads,

The Flying Other Brothers Band is enjoying itself! Featuring Roger McNamee,
Giles McNamee, Bill Bennett, Tony Bove, Bert Keely, and Larry Marcus, with
guest percussionist Corrine.


NEWS
------
* Tony just had an amazing El Nino experience and is now with vehicle
courtesy of Hertz. You can read his story at:

http://www.rockument.com/downflood.html


* Tom Cottingham shows up at Deer Valley, Utah gig for a mini-Random Axes
reunion. Read about that gig below.


UPCOMING EVENTS
--------------------
* March 10, Internet World, L.A. -- at Billboard Live, 7pm-10pm. Fleischman
Hillard party, featuring FOBBs and a band from Excite. Details to come.

* March 30, DMG private party, Hotel Sofitel, Redwood City, CA --
tentative. Details to come.

* July 4, Gualalapalooza, Gualala, CA -- tentative. Details to come.

* Sometime in July, Amazon.com Picnic, Seattle, WA -- tentative. Details to
come.


THE LAST GIG
---------------

We recently returned from an elite financial retreat, Morgan Stanley's Ski
Weekend in Deer Valley, Utah (I know, life is tough), where we played two
sets for a crowd of CEOs and CFOs, and we had them dancing on the tables!

Highlights from that show:

Back in the U.S.S.R. (Beatles)
Secret Agent Man (Johnny Rivers)
-- Roger leads these openers, both howlers, got them on their feet with a
not-so-subtle political message.

Brown-Eyed Girl (Van Morrison)
-- Giles sings that souful lead, but this time with the two conference
organizers singing backup!

City of New Orleans (Arlo Guthrie)
-- with guest vocalist Tom Cottingham, an original member of Random Axes

Deal (Grateful Dead)
-- perfect for those investment bankers in the audience.

One Toke Over the Line (Brewer & Shipley)
-- ... and for once, Tony's home town was not introduced as the capital of
Calif. largest cash crop.

Dead Flowers (Rolling Stones)
-- another good one for investment bankers, this time with Morgan Stanley's
chief organizer Rex playing drums.

Layla (Eric Clapton)
-- Just about our finest version, merging the laid-back style that won Eric
so many awards with the high-octane guitar solo that made this song so
interesting, plus the Duane Allman slide second part sans piano.

Paint It, Black (Rolling Stones)
-- Whoa! What a tambourine ride, Corrine! Giles screams this one while Tony
gives us his Morroccan interpretation.

Like a Rolling Stone (Bob Dylan)
-- You can't beat this message. How many of these financial types actually
feel like they have no home, no direction known? Complete unknown?

Ticket to Ride (Beatles)
-- Bert gets this guitar part exactly perfect, while Roger and Tony play
John and Paul.

Jack Straw (Grateful Dead)
-- We can share the women, we can share the wine. Now that's something
those financial types can understand... This was incandescent. Larry was
once again brilliant.

The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down (The Band)
-- Our "Gone With the Wind" interpretation, led by Roger.

Six Days on the Road (Flying Burrito Brothers and others)
-- Thanks Giles, for your life story. Way to play, Tony and others...

White Room (Cream)
-- Tony sings, and Bert just wails on lead guitar!

Last Time (Rolling Stones) -> Goin' Down the Road Feelin' Bad (Grateful
Dead and others)
-- Goin' where the climate suits my clothes... Dr. Bill, he of the big
bottom sound, rocked the house.

White Shoe Shuffle (Flying Other Brothers Band)
-- Our own truly original number, written by Dr. Bill Bennett, had them
rolling the aisles (laughing) as Tony sang lead.

Uncle John's Band (Grateful Dead)
-- We had the audience singing along on this one, in 4-part harmony. Once
again, Larry knows where the time goes.

Abbey Road Side 2 (Beatles)
-- Bert's "Here Comes the Sun" into Roger's "Mean Mr. Mustard" and on
through the rest of the songs into "The End" which absolutely captivated
this crowd.


Encores (yes they hollered for more):

Iko Iko (Neville Brothers, Grateful Dead, lots of others)
-- We brought back Rex for drums, and introduced Roger Lynch on guitar, who
was already too good for us!

Johnny B. Goode (Chuck Berry and everyone else)
-- We just had to do it. Thanks everyone, and good night!


- - - - - - - - - -
They've been going in and out of style
But they're guaranteed to raise a smile.
--Beatles, "Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band" (Lennon/McCartney)
- - - - - - - - - -
Tony Bove
bove@rockument.com
http://www.rockument.com






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Alex de Joode 
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 05:02:35 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com
Subject: Re: DLing from Replay.com
Message-ID: <199802221302.OAA27880@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


In article  you wrote:

: |Forbidden

: |You don't have permission to access /security/browsers/128bit/CommunicatorUS-v401-Pro/windows/cp16d401.exe on this
: |server.

: |There was also some additional information available about the error:
: |[Mon Feb 16 21:13:24 1998] access to
: |/pub/WWW/www.replay.com/security/browsers/128bit/CommunicatorUS-v401-Pro/windows/cp16d401.exe
: |failed for xxxxxx.xxxxx.xxxxx.xxx, reason: file permissions deny server execution 

My fault: the extension .exe is used for cgi-scripts @replay, so the
webinterface thinks that the file is a cgi script, and not a downloadable
archive so it tries to execute it which ofcourse doesn´t work.

try the following URL:

ftp://ftp.replay.com/pub/crypto/browsers/128bit/

Sorry for the mess ..
--
  Alex de Joode | adejoode@REPLAY.COM | http://www.replay.com
	Replay Associates: Your Internet Problem Provider.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Kelly1@primenet.com
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 14:08:09 -0800 (PST)
To: Kelly1@primenet.com
Subject: Hi, how are you !
Message-ID: <199802222208.OAA16738@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Dear Friend:

This is an extremely IMPORTANT announcement for you!

iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
               IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT
               IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT
               ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
               Your Future May Depend on it!!!
iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii

Before you learn about this 'Important Announcement', please read the
following 'Editorial Excerpts' first from some important publications in the
United States:

New York Times:     "In concluding our review of Financial Organizations
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''      to effect change in the 90's, special attention should
be called to 'World Currency Cartel' organization based in California.  The
members of this organization are amassing hundreds of millions of dollars
in the currency market using a very LEGAL method which has NEVER
been divulged to the general public. While their purpose is not yet known,
their presence has most certainly been felt".

NBC  Nightly News:    " Members of the World Currency Cartel organization,
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''    who always keep very Low Profile of themselves ,
are some of the most powerful and wealthiest people in this hemisphere".

More Excerpts later, but first let us give you this "Important Announcement":
```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
We are glad to announce that for the very first time, the World Currency
Cartel organization will instruct a LIMITED number of people Worldwide
HOW TO CONVERT $25 INTO ONE HUNDRED OF LEGAL CURRENCY.
We will transact the first conversion for you, after that you can quickly and
easily do this on your own hundreds or even thousands of times each and
every month.

TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THIS "SECRET FLAW" !
===================================

It is even more explosive than we have yet disclosed. While currency
does fluctuates daily, we can show you  HOW TO CONVERT $99 
INTO $580 as many times as you want. That means, you will be able
to CONVERT $99 AMERICAN LEGAL CURRENCY DOLLARS FOR 
$580 OF THE SAME. You can do this as many times as you wish, 
every day, every week, every month. All very LEGALLY and effort-
lessly!

It only takes about 5 to 10 minutes each time you do this. You can do
this from your home, office or even while travelling. All you need is an
access to a phone line and an address. Best of all, you can do this
from ANY CITY ON THIS EARTH!!!

Again, we must reiterate, anyone can do this and the source is NEVER-
ENDING. For as long as the global financial community continues to
use different currencies with varying exchange rate, this "Secret Flaw"
will exist.                                                                    '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

As we said earlier, we will do the first transaction for you and will also
show you exactly how to do this on your own, over and over again.

The amount of exchange you would do each time is entirely up to you.
Working just 2 to 10 hrs a week, you can soon join the list of Mllionaires
who do this on a daily basis and many times a day. The transaction is
so simple that even a high school kid can do it!

We at the World Currency Cartel organization would like to see a uniform
global  currency backed by gold. But, until then, we will allow a LIMITED
number of individuals worldwide to share in the Unlimited Profits provided
for by the world currency differentials.

We will espouse no more political views nor will we ask you do so. We
can say however, that our parent organization Wealth Exchange Int. 
benefits greatly by the knowledge being shared as we ourselves along
with you benefit likewise. Your main concern surely will be, how you will
benefit.

In a short time, after you become a member, you can start making trans-
actions from your home, office, by telephone or through the mail and even
while travelling. As we said earlier, we will do the first transaction for you
and will show you exactly how to do this over and over again.

No one can stop you from earning hundreds of thousands and even
millions of dollars each year for as long as this "SECRET FLAW" exist!
                                                                       ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
Don't believe us, experience it for ourself !
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;     Unlike anyone else, we
will assure you a great financial freedom and you will add to our quickly
growing base of supporters and join the list of Mllionaires being created
using this " Secret Flaw " in the world currency market!!

DON'T ENVY US, JOIN US TODAY !!!
*******************************************
There is a one time membership fee of only $195.00. BUT, if you join
us by March 15, 1998, which is our company's second Anniversarry
date, you can join us for only $25 administrative cost. Your important
documents, instructions, contact name/address/phone number and
all other pertinent information will be mailed to you immediately. So ,
take advantage of our Anniversarry date and join us today.

(If you are replying AFTER March 15, 1998; you must pay $195  for
the membership. NO EXCEPTIONS and no more e-mail enquiries).

Upon becoming a member, you promise to keep all infos CONFIDENTIAL.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Should you choose to cancel your membership for any reason, you must
return all documents for a refund within 60 days.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

IMPORTANT:
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
1.....Write your name & mailing address VERY CLEARLY on paper
2.....Below your address, please write your E-mail address (Optional)
3.....At the top Left hand corner, write the word "NEW MEMBER"
4.....Attache a CHECK or M.O. for $25 plus $3 for postage & shipping
        (Total  US$ 28.00)
5.....Make it payable to 'WEALTH EXCHANGE INT.' and mail to:

                   WEALTH EXCHANGE INT.
                   9903 SANTA MONICA BL;
                   SUITE #  405
                   BEVERLY HILLS,
                   CA 90212.
                   U.S.A.

( Overseas request MUST ADD US$ 10.00 EXTRA for the postage ).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Here are some more Editorial Excerpts:
````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
Wall Street:     " A discreet group of Americans, operating under the
                        guise of World Currency Cartel have recently begun
making rumbles in world finance market. While at this time, their game
is not completely known, they certainly be watched by those making
major moves in the curency contracts".

Financial Week:    " Watch them, monitor them, extract their knowledge
                               and try to become one of them. That is the soundest
financial advice we could give someone".

National Business Weekly :   " While this reporter has been left in the cold
                                               as to its method of operation, we have been
able to confirm that World Currency Cartel and its members are literally
amassing great fortunes overnight".

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ END $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: partners@worldgaming.net (Tracy Kurz)
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 17:27:54 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Online Casino Partners wanted...
Message-ID: <19980223010310.CQN18236@worldgaming.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Over the next three years, the Internet gaming market is expected to
generate revenues of anywhere from US$10 billion to US$20 billion, says PC
Computing. A leader in recognizing new and emerging markets, World Gaming
is pleased to become a significant resource for enabling webmasters to
participate in this exciting opportunity. 

World Gaming (www.worldgaming.net) is an innovative on-line gaming
operation offering casino-style games, a Sportsbook with real-time betting
lines, an international lottery ticket brokerage, and live video/audio
Internet broadcasting of horse-racing from around the world. World Gaming
is a wholly owned subsidiary of Starnet Communications International Inc.
(www.starnetcommunications.com), a publicly traded company and developer
and broadcaster of revenue-producing content for the Internet since 1995. 

Licensed in Antigua to accept, process, and manage real money wagers via
the Internet, World Gaming has now introduced the Partners Program, aimed
at web site operators wanting to generate more revenue and offer customers
greater entertainment value from their site. You can become a World Gaming
Partner, earning commissions, at no expense and no risk to you or your web
site. 

To collect generous revenues, all you have to do is strategically place one
of the attractive World Gaming banners on your web site. If you prefer, you
can devote an entire page to World Gaming - it's up to you. As customers
click through, you will share in the "house" profits every time one of your
customers places a wager. The more members you refer, the more commissions
you receive! 

To sign up, please go to the World Gaming Partners Program web site at:
http://www.worldgaming.net/partners 

Value is guaranteed. World Gaming is a state-of-the-art international
gaming web site and CD-ROM software package. World Gaming offers:
o Outstanding casino graphics and 3-D animations in a variety of casino
environments, including a unique "Adult-theme" casino
o A wide variety of internationally appealing casino-style games
o Complete Sportsbook with direct betting lines from Las Vegas and Europe
o Lottery brokerage featuring lotteries from all over the world
o Pari-mutuel wagering on live horse races from international race tracks
o Top-notch, reliable technical support 24 hours a day, seven days a week
o Guaranteed security of all Internet financial transactions
o Translation into 8 international languages

Because we do not accept wagers from the U.S. or Canada, World Gaming does
not believe that its business actions violate any existing regulations in
those areas. World Gaming will focus on the market outside of North America
until such time as U.S. and Canadian laws regarding Internet gaming are
clarified. It is estimated that as much as 80% of the world gambling market
is from regions outside of North America, specifically in Asia and Europe.

Details:
o You will earn 25% of the revenues earned from the customers you turn onto
World Gaming.
o Each Partner is given a unique identifying code that enables World Gaming
to ensure you receive your commissions every time one of your customers
logs in to play.
o There is absolutely no investment on your behalf.
o There is absolutely no risk on your behalf.
o You accept no liability whatsoever for the legal ramifications of
Internet gambling.

Join the World Gaming Partners Program today!







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: AMF Investments 
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 17:45:39 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: HOTTEST MONEY MAKING OPPORTUNITY ON THE INTERNET!!
Message-ID: <18161.235848.82837616 cypherpunks@toad.com	>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


BEFORE YOU HASTILY DELETE THIS MAILING, PLEASE PRINT IT OUT. 
(NEED TO REPLY IF YOU WANT TO BE REMOVED FROM MY MAILING LIST, 
FAILURE TO RESPOND WILL AUTOMATICALLY REMOVE YOU FROM THE 
LIST)

THIS IS THE HOTTEST OPPORTUNITY ON THE INTERNET AND ONE THAT 
WILL CHANGE YOUR LIFE (STYLE) FOREVER!

IF YOU THINK "NOT FOR ME", THEN WHAT ABOUT FOR YOUR FAMILY!

How Many Things Did You And Your Family Go Without This Past Year,
Simply Because You Couldn't Afford Them? Isn't it about time you and
your family got the things you always wanted? Aren't you tired of always
having to tell your family: "Maybe next year we can get that new car, we
just can't afford to take that kind of vacation," "I'm sorry, all I can afford
for you, is junior college," or "look, my boss said he'd try to give me that
raise in 6 months"

THIS PROGRAM IS PROVEN OVER AND OVER, TIME AND TIME AGAIN!

THERE ARE THOUSANDS OF THOSE WHO HAVE SEEN IT WORK AND 
CONTINUE TO USE IT BECAUSE IT DOES WORK!!!


Hello!

My name is Matthew Forti; I'm a 45-year-old father, and husband. As a rule, I delete 
all unsolicited "junk" e-mail and use my account primarily for business.  I received 
what I assumed was this same e-mail countless times and deleted it each time.

About two months ago I received it again and, because of the catchy subject line,  I 
finally read it.  Afterwards, I thought , "OK, I give in, I'm going to try this.  I can certainly 
afford to invest $20 and, on the other hand, there's nothing wrong with creating a little 
excess cash."  I promptly mailed four $5 bills and, after receiving the reports, paid a 
friend of mine a small fee to send out some e-mail advertisements for me.  After 
reading the reports, I also learned how easy it is to bulk e-mail for free! 

I was not prepared for the results.  Everyday for the last six weeks, my  P.O. box has 
been overflowing with $5 bills; many days the excess fills up an extra mail bin and 
I've had to upgrade to the corporate-size box!  I am stunned by all the cash  that 
keeps rolling in!

I promise you, if you follow the directions in this e-mail and be prepared to 
eventually set aside about an hour each day to follow up (and count your money!), 
you will make at least as much money as we did.  You don't need to be a wiz at the 
computer, but I'll bet you already are.   If you can open an envelope, remove the 
money, and send an e-mail message, then you're on your way to the bank.  Take 
the time to read this so you'll understand how easy it is. Believe me, it works!

                                                       GO FOR IT NOW!
Sincerely,

Matthew Forti

The following is a copy of the e-mail I read:

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

This is a LEGAL, LOW-COST, MONEY-MAKING PHENOMENON.

PRINT this letter, read the directions, THEN GET STARTED TODAY!

You are about to embark on the most profitable and unique program you may ever 
see.  Many times over, it has demonstrated and proven its ability to generate large 
amounts of cash.  This program is showing fantastic appeal with a huge and ever-
growing on-line population desirous of additional income.

This is a legitimate, LEGAL, money-making opportunity.  It does not require you to 
come in contact with people, do any hard work, and best of all, you never have to 
leave the house, except to get the mail and go to the bank!

This truly is that lucky break you've been waiting for!  Simply follow the easy 
instructions in this letter, and your financial dreams will come true! When followed 
correctly, this electronic, multi-level marketing program works perfectly... 100% OF 
THE TIME!

Thousands of people have used this program to:

    -  Raise capital to start their own business
    -  Pay off debts
    -  Buy homes, cars, etc.,
    -  Even retire!

This is your chance, so read on and get started today!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OVERVIEW OF THIS EXTRAORDINARY 
ELECTRONIC MULTI-LEVEL MARKETING PROGRAM
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Basically, this is what we do:

We send thousands of people a product for $5.00 that costs next to nothing to 
produce and e-mail. As with all multi-level businesses, we build our business by 
recruiting new partners and selling our products.  Every state in the U.S. allows you 
to recruit new multi- level business online (via your computer).

The products in this program are a series of four business and financial reports 
costing $5.00 each.  Each order you receive via "snail mail" will include:

  * $5.00 cash
  * The name and number of the report they are ordering
  * The e-mail address where you will e-mail them the report they
     ordered.

To fill each order, you simply e-mail the product to the buyer.  THAT'S IT!  The 
$5.00 is yours!  This is the EASIEST electronic multi-level marketing business 
anywhere! 

FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS TO THE LETTER AND
BE PREPARED TO REAP THE STAGGERING BENEFITS!

******* I  N  S  T  R  U  C  T  I  O  N  S *******

This is what you MUST do:

1. Order all 4 reports shown on the list below (you can't sell them if you don't order 
them).
     
     *  For each report, send $5.00 CASH, the NAME & NUMBER OF THE
        REPORT YOU ARE ORDERING, YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS, and 	YOUR 
NAME & RETURN ADDRESS (in case of a problem) to the 	person  whose 
name appears on the list next to the report. MAKE 	SURE YOUR RETURN 
ADDRESS IS ON YOUR ENVELOPE IN 	CASE OF ANY MAIL 
PROBLEMS!
  
     *  When you place your order, make sure you order each of the
        four reports.  You will need all four reports so that you can save
        them on your computer and resell them.

     *  Within a few days you will receive, via e-mail, each of the four
        reports. Save them on your computer so they will be accessible
        for you to send to the 1,000's of people who will order them
        from you.

2.  IMPORTANT-- DO NOT alter the names of the people who are listed
     next to each report, or their sequence on the list, in any way other
     than is instructed below in steps "a" through "f" or you will lose
     out on the majority of your profits.  Once you  understand the way
     this works, you'll also see how it doesn't work if you change it.
     Remember, this method has been tested, and if you alter it, it will
     not work. ( I talked to a friend last month who has also done this
     program.  He said he had tried "playing" with it to change the
     results.  Bad idea.... he never got as much money as he did with
     the un-altered version.  Remember, it's a proven method!

    a.  Look below for the listing of available reports.

    b.  After you've ordered the four reports, take this advertisement and 
         remove the name and address under REPORT #4. This person has 
         made it through the cycle and is no doubt counting their 50 grand!

    c.  Move the name and address under REPORT #3 down to  REPORT #4.  

    d.  Move the name and address under REPORT #2 down to REPORT #3.

    e.  Move the name and address under REPORT #1 down to REPORT #2.

    f.  Insert your name/address in the REPORT #1 position.

Please make sure you copy every name and address ACCURATELY!

3.  Take this entire letter, including the modified list of names, and
     save it to your computer.  Make NO changes to the instruction
     portion of this letter.
  
4.  Now you're ready to start an advertising campaign on the
     INTERNET!  Advertising on the 'Net is very, very inexpensive,
     and there are HUNDREDS of FREE places to advertise. Another
     avenue which you could use for advertising is e-mail lists.  
     You can buy these lists for under $20/2,000 addresses or you
     can pay someone a minimal charge to take care of it for you. 
     BE SURE TO START YOUR AD CAMPAIGN IMMEDIATELY!

5.  For every $5.00 you receive, all you must do is e-mail them the
     report they ordered.  THAT'S IT!  ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY
     SERVICE ON ALL ORDERS!  This will guarantee that the e-mail THEY
     send out, with YOUR name and address on it, will be prompt
     because they can't advertise until they receive the report!

------------------------------------------
AVAILABLE REPORTS
------------------------------------------

*** Order Each REPORT by NUMBER and NAME ***

Notes:

-  ALWAYS SEND $5 CASH (U.S. CURRENCY) FOR EACH REPORT
   CHECKS NOT ACCEPTED
-  ALWAYS SEND YOUR ORDER VIA FIRST CLASS  MAIL 
-  Make sure the cash is concealed by wrapping it in at least two
   sheets of paper  
-  On one of those sheets of paper, include: (a) the number & name
   of the report you are ordering, (b) your e-mail address, and
   (c) your name & postal address.

PLACE YOUR ORDER FOR THESE REPORTS NOW:
______________________________________________________________

REPORT #1 "HOW TO MAKE $250,000 THROUGH MULTI-LEVEL SALES" 

      ORDER REPORT #1 FROM:  
           
	 AMF Investments
          2319 South Kirkwood   #144
           Houston,  TX  77077

______________________________________________________________

REPORT #2 "MAJOR CORPORATIONS AND MULTI-LEVEL SALES"

      ORDER REPORT #2 FROM:

	  Fusion Marketing Ltd.
            8895 Towne Centre Drive
            Suite 105-303A
            La Jolla, CA 92122-5542

______________________________________________________________

REPORT #3 "SOURCES FOR THE BEST MAILING LISTS"

      ORDER REPORT #3 FROM:
		LockMan
            P.O. Box 927603
            San Diego, CA  92192-0603


______________________________________________________________

REPORT #4 "EVALUATING MULTI-LEVEL SALES PLANS"

      ORDER REPORT #4 FROM:
		KEY
            P.O. Box 270227
            San Diego, CA 92198

______________________________________________________________

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HERE'S HOW THIS AMAZING PLAN WILL MAKE YOU $MONEY$
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Let's say you decide to start small just to see how well it works. Assume your goal 
is to get 10 people to participate on your first level. (Placing a lot of FREE ads on 
the internet will EASILY get a larger response.) Also assume that everyone else in 
YOUR ORGANIZATION gets ONLY 10 downline members.  Follow this example to 
achieve the STAGGERING results below.

1st level--your 10 members with $5............................................$50
2nd level--10 members from those 10 ($5 x 100).....................$500
3rd level--10 members from those 100 ($5 x 1,000)............$5,000
4th level--10 members from those 1,000 ($5 x 10,000)...$50,000
                      THIS TOTALS        ----------->$55,550

Remember friends, this assumes that the people who participate only recruit 10 
people each.  Think for a moment what would happen if they got 20 people to 
participate!  Most people get 100's of participants! THINK ABOUT IT!

Your cost to participate in this is practically nothing (surely you can afford $20). You 
obviously already have an Internet connection and e-mail is FREE! 

REPORT#3 shows you the most productive methods for bulk e-mailing and 
purchasing e-mail lists.  Some list & bulk e-mail vendors even work on trade!

About 50,000 new people get online every month!

******* TIPS FOR SUCCESS *******

 *  TREAT THIS AS YOUR BUSINESS!  Be prompt, professional, and
     follow the directions accurately.

 *  Send for the four reports IMMEDIATELY so you will have them
    when the orders start coming in because:

        When you receive a $5 order, you MUST send out the requested
        product/report to comply with the U.S. Postal & Lottery Laws, Title
        18,Sections 1302 and 1341 or Title 18,  Section 3005 in the U.S. Code,
        also Code of Federal Regs. vol. 16, Sections 255 and 436, which state 
        that "a product or service must be exchanged for money received."

 *  ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON THE ORDERS YOU RECEIVE.

 *  Be patient and persistent with this program. If you follow the 
    instructions exactly, your results WILL be SUCCESSFUL!

 *  ABOVE ALL, HAVE FAITH IN YOURSELF AND KNOW YOU WILL
    SUCCEED!


******* YOUR SUCCESS GUIDELINES *******

Follow these guidelines to guarantee your success:

If you don't receive 10 to 20 orders for REPORT #1 within two weeks, continue 
advertising until you do.  Then, a couple of weeks later you should receive at least 
100 orders for REPORT #2.  If you don't, continue advertising until you do.

Once you have received 100 or more orders for REPORT #2, YOU CAN RELAX, 
because the system is already working for you, and the cash will continue to roll in!

THIS IS IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER:

Every time your name is moved down on the list, you are placed in front of a 
DIFFERENT report.  You can KEEP TRACK of your PROGRESS by watching 
which report people are ordering from you.  If you want to generate more income, 
send another batch of e-mails and start the whole process again!  There is no limit 
to the income you will generate from this business!


******* T  E  S  T  I  M  O  N  I  A  L  S *******

     This program does work, but you must follow it EXACTLY!  Especially the rule of 
not trying to place your name in a different position, it won't work and you'll lose a lot 
of potential income.  I'm living proof that it works.  It really is a great opportunity to 
make relatively easy money, with little cost to you.  If you do choose to participate, 
follow the program exactly, and you'll be on your way to financial security. 
          Sean McLaughlin, Jackson, MS

     My name is Frank. My wife, Doris, and I live in Bel-Air, MD. I am a cost accountant 
with a major U.S. Corporation and I make pretty good money. When I received the 
program I grumbled to Doris about receiving "junk mail." I made fun of the whole 
thing, spouting my knowledge of the population and percentages involved.  I 
"knew" it wouldn't work. Doris totally ignored my supposed intelligence and jumped 
in with both feet. I made merciless fun of her, and was ready to lay the old "I told you 
so" on her when the thing didn't work... well, the laugh was on me!  Within two weeks 
she had received over 50 responses. Within 45 days she had received over 
$147,200 in $5 bills! I was shocked!  I was sure that I had it all figured and that it 
wouldn't work.  I AM a believer now. I have joined Doris in her "hobby."   I did have 
seven more years until retirement, but I think of the "rat race" and it's not for me. We 
owe it all to MLM.
           Frank T., Bel-Air, MD

    I just want to pass along my best wishes and encouragement to you.  Any doubts 
you have will vanish when your first orders come in. I even checked with the U.S. 
Post Office to verify that the plan was legal. It definitely is! IT WORKS!!!
           Paul Johnson, Raleigh, NC

    The main reason for this letter is to convince you that this system is honest, lawful, 
extremely profitable, and is a way to get a large amount of money in a short time. I 
was approached several times before I checked this out. I joined just to see what 
one could expect in return for the minimal effort and money required.  To my 
astonishment, I received $36,470.00 in the first 14 weeks, with money still coming in.
           Sincerely yours, Phillip A. Brown, Esq.

    Not being the gambling type, it took me several weeks to make up my mind to 
participate in this plan. But conservative that I am, I decided that the initial 
investment was so little that there was just no way that I wouldn't get enough orders 
to at least get my money back. Boy, was I surprised when I found my medium-size 
post office box crammed with orders!  For awhile, it got so overloaded that I had to 
start picking up my mail at the window. I'll make more money this year than any 10 
years of my life before. The nice thing about this deal is that it doesn't matter where 
in the U.S. the people live. There simply isn't a better investment with a faster return.
         Mary Rockland, Lansing, MI

    I had received this program before. I deleted it, but later I wondered if I shouldn't 
have given it a try. Of course, I had no idea who to contact to get another copy, so I 
had to wait until I was e-mailed another program...11 months passed then it came...I 
didn't delete this one!...I made more than $41,000 on the first try!!
          D. Wilburn, Muncie, IN

     This is my third time to participate in this plan. We have quit our jobs, and will 
soon buy a home on the beach and live off the interest on our money.  The only 
way on earth that this plan will work for you is if you do it. For your sake, and for your 
family's sake don't pass up this golden opportunity.  Good luck and happy 
spending!
           Charles Fairchild, Spokane, WA


ORDER YOUR REPORTS TODAY AND
GET STARTED ON YOUR ROAD TO 
GETTING EXTRA CASH DAILY!

NOW  IS THE TIME FOR YOUR TURN

DECISIVE ACTION YIELDS
POWERFUL RESULTS




























From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Richard Fiero 
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 19:49:34 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: CIA Blasts Bay of Pigs Op
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19980222175049.006808d4@pop.pipeline.com>
Message-ID: <199802230348.UAA17099@pophost.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


John Young writes:
>
>The NY Times reports today that the National Security Archive 
>has obtained under FOIA the sole remaining copy of the
>CIA's 1962 Top Secret survey of the Bay of Pigs disaster. 
>The highly critical document is termed one of the most secret 
>documents of the cold war. We've put a copy of the article at:
>
>   http://jya.com/cia-pigs.htm
. . .

Central Intelligence is now portraying itself as a bungling and hopelessly
harmless bureaucracy.
Sure.
-- Richard Fiero




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 19:00:31 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com (Cypherpunks)
Subject: Privacy books
Message-ID: <199802230259.UAA09876@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text


Could anyone suggest a book that gives recommendations on improving
privacy? I do not want my name to be in too many databases. There are
very many such books but I am not sure which one is best.

Thank you.

	- Igor.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 57324685@aol.com
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 22:09:23 -0800 (PST)
To: 57324685@aol.com
Subject: JUST RELEASED!  16 Million!!!
Message-ID: <011297055501222@g_fantasm.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



IT WAS JUST RELEASED!!
 
INTRODUCING...MILLIONS VOL. 1

We took a total of over 92 million email addresses from many of the
touted CD's that are out there (bought them all - some were $300+)!
We added the millions we had in storage to those.   When we
combined them all, we had in  excess of 100+ million addresses
in one huge file.

We then ran a super "sort/de-dupe" program against this huge list.
It cut the file down to less than 25 million!!! Can you believe that? It
seems that most people that are selling CD's are duping the public
by putting numerous files of addresses in the CD over and over. This
created many duplicate addresses. They also had many program
 "generated" email addresses like Compuserve, MCI, ANON's, etc.
This causes a tremendous amount of undeliverables, and for  those
that use Stealth programs, clogs up servers quickly with trash, etc.

We then ran a program that contained 150+ keywords to remove
addresses with vulgarity,  profanity, sex-related names, postmaster,
 webmaster, flamer, abuse, spam, etc., etc.   Also eliminated all .edu,
.mil, .org, .gov, etc.   After that list was run against the remaining list,
it  reduced it down to near 16 million addresses!

So, you see, our list will save people hundreds of dollars buying all
others that are out there on  CD and otherwise. Using ours will be like
 using the 100+ million that we started with, but a lot  less money and
alot less time!!

We also purchased Cyber-Promos ($995.00) CD.   We received it just
prior to finishing production work on the new CD.   We had our people
take a random sample of 300,000 addresses  from the touted 2.9 that
they advertised.   We used a program that allows us to take a random
sample of addresses from any list.   We were able to have the program
take every 9th address, thus giving us a 300,000 list of Cyber's email
addresses from top to bottom.  We did not clean  these, but we did create
3 seperate files named cyber1.txt, cyber2.txt, & cyber3.txt of 100,000
addresses each. This will give all people that use the list a opportunity to
send mail to the list before deciding if their CD is all it's hyped to be.

We also included a 2+ million "Remove/Flamer" file broke into seperate
files for ease of  extracting and adding to your own database of removes.

 "You can buy from the REST or you can buy from the BEST.   Your choice.
_____________________________

What others are saying:
 
"I received the CD on Friday evening.   Like a kid with a new toy, I
immediately started bulking out using the new email addresses.  Over
the course of the weekend, I emailed out over 500,000 emails and I
received less than TWENTY undeliverables!!  I am totally satisfied
with my purchase!!  Thanks Premier!!"

Dave Buckley
Houston,  TX

"This list is worth it's weight in gold!!  I sent out 100,000 emails for my
product and received over 55 orders!

Ann Colby
New Orleans, LA

****************************************
 
                  HERE'S THE BOTTOM LINE

Here is what you get when you order today!

>> 16 Million Email Addresses... 1 per line in simple text format on a CD.
Files are in lots of 100,000 (no codes needed to open files).
All files are separated by domain name for your convenience.
 
PLUS you receive a tremendous REMOVE list!
 
AND
 
the a sampling of CyberPromo's HOT list.

>>> NOW ONLY $149.00!

This price is effective for the next seven days, thereafter the price will be
$199.00 so ORDER NOW!

All lists are completely free of any Duplicates. We also on a continual
basis, add New Names and Remove Undeliverables and Remove
Requests.
 
The result is the Cleanest Email Addresses Available Anywhere
to use over and over again, for a FRACTION of the cost that other
companies charge. Typical rates for acquiring email lists are from
1 cent to as high as 3 cents per email address - that's
"INFORMATION HIGHWAY" ROBBERY!.

Don't even hesitate on this one or you will miss out on the most
effective way to market anywhere..PERIOD!

If you have any further questions or to place an order by
phone, please do not hesitate to call us at:

                              908-245-1143

To order our email package, simply print out the EZ ORDER FORM
below and fax or mail it to our office today.
 
We accept Visa, Mastercard, AMEX, Checks by Fax and Mail.
 
 _________________
EZ Order Form
 
 
 _____Yes! I would like to order MILLIONS Vol. 1 email addresses
for only $149.00.
 
 
*Please select one of the following for shipping..
 
____I would like to receive my package OVERNIGHT. I'm including
$15 for shipping. (outside US add an additional $25 for shipping)
 
____I would like to receive my package 2 DAY delivery. I'm including
$10 for shipping.  (outside US add an additional $25 for shipping)
 
DATE_____________________________________________________
 
NAME____________________________________________________

COMPANY NAME___________________________________________

ADDRESS_________________________________________________

CITY, STATE, ZIP___________________________________________
 
PHONE NUMBERS__________________________________________
 
FAX NUMBERS_____________________________________________
 
EMAIL ADDRESS___________________________________________
 
TYPE OF CREDIT CARD:
 
______VISA _____MASTERCARD
 
CREDIT CARD# __________________________________________
 
EXPIRATION DATE________________________________________
 
NAME ON CARD___________________________________________
 
AMOUNT $____________________
 
 
(Required) SIGNATURE:x________________________
 
DATE:x__________________
 
You may fax your order to us at:   1-908-245-3119
 
CHECK BY FAX SERVICES!
 
If you would like to fax a check, paste your check below and fax it to
our office along with all forms to: 1-908-245-3119

******************************************************

***24 HOUR FAX SERVICES*** PLEASE PASTE YOUR
 
CHECK HERE AND FAX IT TO US AT 1-908-245-3119
 
*******************************************************
 
If You fax a check, there is no need for you to send the original check.
We will draft up a new check, with the exact information from your
original check. All checks will be held for bank clearance.

If you feel more comfortable sending payment through the mail,
please send all forms and Check or Money Order to:
 
JKP Enterprises
700 Boulevard 
Suite 102
Kenilworth, NJ 07033






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Tatz 
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 20:41:41 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: CIA Blasts Bay of Pigs Op
In-Reply-To: <199802230348.UAA17099@pophost.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


> Central Intelligence is now portraying itself as a bungling and hopelessly
> harmless bureaucracy.
> Sure.
> -- Richard Fiero

Is this something new?

-Jim





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: MegaLeads@aol.com
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 23:39:07 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: request for remailler services
Message-ID: <58eeb372.34f12773@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


please send any info you can to megaleads@aol.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 08:17:23 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: A virtual Swiss bank for the rest of us, from Time/Netly News
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Sicherheit und Privat will be issuing digital cash, digital letters of
credit, and use a secret-sharing crypto app on a Pilot to handle stock
trading. A bunch of cypherpunk regulars, including Black Unicorn, are
involved.

Below is my writeup that's in this week's Time magazine. For details check
out my article in today's Netly News:

  http://cgi.pathfinder.com/netly/opinion/0,1042,1756,00.html

-Declan

****

A VIRTUAL SWISS BANK FOR THE REST OF US

Time Magazine
March 2, 1998
Page 20

Got the urge for offshore banking but not the cash to try
it? Rather than saving up for a plane ticket to Grand
Cayman, check out a new online bank opening its virtual
doors this week. Sicherheit und Privat (Security and
Privacy) is an Austrian bank that offers encrypted
communications, digital cash transactions and a
privacy-protected MasterCard for a minimum deposit of
$1,000 (as opposed to $10K to $50K in a typical Swiss
bank). Could be just the thing for low rollers trying to
hide cash from a spouse's divorce lawyers--or the IRS.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Brandon Crosby 
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 09:00:32 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Is spam really a problem? (fwd)
Message-ID: <199802231704.LAA25326@ted.mncs.k12.mn.us>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text


> 
> >It eats up your valuable time.  You might not see it for what it is, but
> >it is an interruption of normal service.  It's annoying as having your
> >pager go off durring sex and having to call back your boss instead of
> >ignoring it.  (Presume you can't shut off your pager.)  It takes away
> >from the continuity of life.
> 
> You can't even come up with a valid analogy. Any
> pager I've ever carried could be put in silent mode.
> With email, you decide when to check it, and if you 
> have two brain cells to rub together you can identify
> and kill spam reliably on just the Subject and Sender
> data, without reading it. To reiterate, it takes me
> less time to manually kill spam than to trash the junk
> in my snail mail. Spam is simply Not A Big Problem, and
> much less an irritation than telemarketer calls.
> 

Asside from this, when everyone finally figures out how to MIME encrypt
images, movies, sounds, etc. into their E-Mails, the net will become a
sespool of junk mail w/ 16-bit images that only really use 16 colors,
constantly flowng to and fro in a broth. Try to go to world-famous sites?
Ha! Spam is there, too.

The net can only handle so much, and spam by tradition isn't high on the
list.

> What do you propose?
> 
> >Have every sendmail server use a PK scheme to talk to every other
> >server and authenticate the connection.  Have every sendmail server accept
> >mail only from those whose key is verified.
> 
> Oh boy. Mandatory signing, with registered keys. Great. Why not
> also require people to have their SSN's tattooed on the inside of
> their forearms? That way, if some one is so foolish as to say 
> something you didn't want to hear, you'll know 
> who to sue 'for the theft of your valuable time'.

When this happens, two problems arise:
 (1) people (not to forget Gov) will have a reason to break singing codes
 (2) confidence in the system will make signing fraud a very happy-day
       bussiness.

I would suggest, we all send a bit of spam out, 'accidentally' freeze the net
and show people what can happen. Asside from this personality change, little
can be done to keep people from sending spam (or, for that matter, pesonal
letters).
-Brandon Crosby




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: mf@mediafilter.org (MediaFilter)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 08:12:55 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: CryptoGate, from CAQ
Message-ID: <1323889970-327546@mediafilter.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


            Crypto AG: The NSA's Trojan Whore?

                    by Wayne Madsen

        FOR AT LEAST HALF A CENTURY, THE US HAS BEEN
         INTERCEPTING AND DECRYPTING THE TOP SECRET
        DOCUMENTS OF MOST OF THE WORLD'S GOVERNMENTS

      It may be the greatest intelligence scam of
      the century: For decades, the US has routinely
      intercepted and deciphered top secret
      encrypted messages of 120 countries. These
      nations had bought the world's most
      sophisticated and supposedly secure
      commercial encryption technology from
      Crypto AG, a Swiss company that staked its
      reputation and the security concerns of its
      clients on its neutrality. The purchasing
      nations, confident that their communications
      were protected, sent messages from their
      capitals to embassies, military missions, trade
      offices, and espionage dens around the world,
      via telex, radio, teletype, and facsimile. They
      not only conducted sensitive albeit legal
      business and diplomacy, but sometimes
      strayed into criminal matters, issuing orders
      to assassinate political leaders, bomb
      commercial buildings, and engage in drug and
      arms smuggling. All the while, because of a
      secret agreement between the National
      Security Agency (NSA) and Crypto AG, they might as
      well have been hand delivering the message to Washington.

      Their Crypto AG machines had been rigged so that when
      customers used them, the random encryption key
      could be automatically and clandestinely
      transmitted with the enciphered message. NSA
      analysts could read the message traffic as easily
      as they could the morning newspaper.

      [...]


>From CAQ #63 http://caq.com/cryptogate






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Steve Orrin" 
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 08:40:29 -0800 (PST)
To: "Bruce Schneier" 
Subject: FYI!!!! - NETA to buy TIS
Message-ID: <19980223164221625.AAA314.388@Satan.syndata.domain>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hot off the Press:

http://biz.yahoo.com/snp/980223/tisx_dtp_m_1.html


Monday February 23, 10:21 am Eastern Time

Trusted Information Systems to Be Acquired by Network Associates

TRUSTED INFORMATION SYSTEMS INC. Signs Definitive Agreement to Be Acquired
by
Network Associates Inc.

Feb. 23, 1998, Network Associates Inc. (Nasdaq:NETA - news) and Trusted
Information Systems Inc. (Nasdaq:TISX -
news) said they signed a definitive agreement under which NETA will acquire
TISX in a transaction valued at over
$300,000,000.

Each TISX share will be exchanged for 0.323 of a NETA share.

Subject to approval by TISX stockholders, among other conditions, the
transaction is expected to close within about 90 days. 




A Picture Tells A Thousand Words.
                    STEGO




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Sal Denaro 
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 09:51:25 -0800 (PST)
To: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Subject: Re: FCPUNX:'close to the machine'
In-Reply-To: <199802192206.RAA15832@anon7.pfmc.net>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Sun, 15 Feb 1998, Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote:
> fun new book: "close to the machine" by Ellen Ullman. anybody
> here seen/read it? a highly
> personal and emotional book at times about working in the computer 
> industry.  author is a software engineer whose done a lot of contract
> work. I think many here will find it worth a look and/or worth

I read it. After a while I noticed that I had a lot in common with
the young programmer that she had an affair with. 

It took a while to come to terms with being a "type" :)

There were two things about the book that I disliked:

1) Macho-computing. A number of consultants tend to act as if they are
   sliting the atom or landing a man on the moon as they work. While I
   agree that programming is hard work, and that a lot of what programmers
   do is on the edge, it is hardly ground breaking to implement YA DBMS,
   even if it is Java based and web-centric.

2) I think she was tring to hard to look technical.  

--
sal@panix.com                                       Salvatore Denaro
"The reality of the software business today is that if you find
something that can make you ridiculously rich, then that's something
that Microsoft is going to take away from you." -- Max Metral





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Austin Hill 
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 09:51:43 -0800 (PST)
To: "Cypherpunks" 
Subject: Re: FYI!!!! - NETA to buy TIS
Message-ID: <199802231751.MAA20933@bretweir.total.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




                    TIS provides a full line of security products and
                    services including: Gauntlet firewalls to protect
                    network connections; Gauntlet Global Virtual Private
                    Networks to secure electronic communications 
worldwide;
                    Stalker misuse detection solutions to ensure the
                    integrity of servers which, when used in conjunction
                    with Network Associates' CyberCop, extends this level 
of
                    protection to networks; and TIS Consulting and 
Training
                    services to facilitate a company's network running
                    smoothly.

                    TIS' RecoverKey encryption technology provides 
flexible,
                    scalable, user-controlled key recovery, and has been
                    implemented by multinational organizations for their
                    global networks. TIS is a founding member of the Key
                    Recovery Alliance, an organization of over 60
                    international companies working together to facilitate
                    the worldwide commercial use of strong encryption.

                    "This announcement represents a fundamental shift in 
the
                    way large customers will implement security 
technology,"
                    said Bill Larson, chairman and CEO of Network
                    Associates. "Network Associates is the first company 
to
                    deliver this caliber of technology and this breadth of
                    security products. The ability to tie all of these
                    components together in a centralized management
                    environment is critical to customer success, and 
Network
                    Associates is the only company to combine security 
with
                    industry-leading network management capabilities."


Well I guess this returns Network Associates to the Key Recovery 
Alliance.  I wonder what the PGP division thinks about the new member of 
the family being the founding member of the KRA?

-Austin

Quoted text from Steve Orrin (sorrin@syndata.com ) on 2/23/98 11:46 AM

>Hot off the Press:
>
>http://biz.yahoo.com/snp/980223/tisx_dtp_m_1.html
>
>
>Monday February 23, 10:21 am Eastern Time
>
>Trusted Information Systems to Be Acquired by Network Associates
>
>TRUSTED INFORMATION SYSTEMS INC. Signs Definitive Agreement to Be Acquired
>by
>Network Associates Inc.
>
>Feb. 23, 1998, Network Associates Inc. (Nasdaq:NETA - news) and Trusted
>Information Systems Inc. (Nasdaq:TISX -
>news) said they signed a definitive agreement under which NETA will acquire
>TISX in a transaction valued at over
>$300,000,000.
>
>Each TISX share will be exchanged for 0.323 of a NETA share.
>
>Subject to approval by TISX stockholders, among other conditions, the
>transaction is expected to close within about 90 days. 
>
>
>
>
>A Picture Tells A Thousand Words.
>                    STEGO
>




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Brian B. Riley" 
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 10:24:41 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: Re: CryptoGate, from CAQ
Message-ID: <199802231824.NAA08548@mx01.together.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On 2/23/98 11:15 AM, MediaFilter (mf@mediafilter.org)  passed this
wisdom:

>   Their Crypto AG machines had been rigged so that when
>   customers used them, the random encryption key
>   could be automatically and clandestinely
>   transmitted with the enciphered message. NSA
>   analysts could read the message traffic as easily
>   as they could the morning newspaper.

 While I feel that, considering its holier than thou attitude, the USG
is acting in a morally reprehensible fashion, these countries got what
they deserve; if they didn't have one of their own on hand, they should
have rented a crypto specialist from "Cypherpunks R Us" (TCM prop) to
check out the equipment/software. If the damned key was passed along
with the ciphertext it seems to me that it should have been easy enough
to tell by creating some known very short text messages ... are they
really that lazy/stupid/trusting?????

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0
Charset: noconv

iQEVAwUBNPG+3z7r4fUXwraZAQF8rAf9HzVd03y+Dgjx8GkmjHxBS7hFW8rRXqZB
0wnVOuYYrSqGGcNTOKDReHBWhPvVnHT9A8DCSYFc1/tjRvFwbtZo6ultwWJDDZ3m
0GwcVg9AK9J/jqrxshjebayzCQOSFZhCnxUZnaFHC6PXx4caKQ3AdEQZ/9Ff64qE
Sdkwu9C2Pq2j3+VdifF6+P0g90JHIqqd0AWLSEuuZJdZBIkPon4JBpwAHHkSpmN4
WdC71lKl8OxJfBapTFTUW4qBitH2PmwA6NIPZ+2SLVfGAOORWEYwHXoLsy8oqeWU
7Hvq6HBC7JngAD3L/ozVVML3dlqnr0i3C7mUd7GwFnVTQo3Qo4Jxpw==
=Ijtu
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


Brian B. Riley --> http://members.macconnect.com/~brianbr
  For PGP Keys  

 "Sometimes it is said that man cannot be trusted with the government
  of himself.  Can he, then, be trusted with the government of others?
  Or have we found angels in the forms of kings to govern him?  Let
  history answer this question."  Thomas Jefferson, 1st Inaugural Addr






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "ANDROCK" 
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 13:40:17 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: Hello
Message-ID: <01bd4060$ce1d80c0$03dfdfdf@tower200>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Please, include me in the list
ANDROCK


From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Steve Orrin" 
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 11:01:29 -0800 (PST)
To: "cypherpunks toad" 
Subject: PGP's Response
Message-ID: <19980223190148109.AAA317.313@Satan.syndata.domain>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


The following is PGP's official response (from there web site) to the TIS
acquisition by NETA. What it infers is that while PGP for Personal use
won't (at least until NETA decides otherwise) incorporate TIS technology,
it leaves the door wide open for PGP for Business use....

Network Associates and Key Recovery

With the acquisition of Trusted Information Systems (TIS) by
Network Associates, NAI has added a new technology to its product
portfolio -- key recovery. This TIS-developed technology
addresses the market needs for encryption key recovery and
management. NAI will continue to provide this technology to the
market.

NAI's PGP product group already provides the capability for
corporations to recover information from PGP products deployed in
corporate environments. The requirement for this capability from
corporations has been evident and well-known for quite sometime. 

However, NAI does not believe there is a need for key recovery in
PGP products for the individual. NAI will develop and market
products that its customers need and want but will not include
any technology that is not required by its customers.






A Picture Tells A Thousand Words.
                    STEGO




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 07:47:38 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Is spam really a problem?
Message-ID: <199802231547.QAA29528@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Hi!

'Masque' here again. The same one who wrote the
original 'Is spam really a problem?' post. (I
won't attempt to prove that :-).

I'm really astounded at "sunder's" PK based 
solution; it's akin to proposing decapitation
as a cure for pimples.

>It eats up your valuable time.  You might not see it for what it is, but
>it is an interruption of normal service.  It's annoying as having your
>pager go off durring sex and having to call back your boss instead of
>ignoring it.  (Presume you can't shut off your pager.)  It takes away
>from the continuity of life.

You can't even come up with a valid analogy. Any
pager I've ever carried could be put in silent mode.
With email, you decide when to check it, and if you 
have two brain cells to rub together you can identify
and kill spam reliably on just the Subject and Sender
data, without reading it. To reiterate, it takes me
less time to manually kill spam than to trash the junk
in my snail mail. Spam is simply Not A Big Problem, and
much less an irritation than telemarketer calls.

What do you propose?

>Have every sendmail server use a PK scheme to talk to every other
>server and authenticate the connection.  Have every sendmail server accept
>mail only from those whose key is verified.

Oh boy. Mandatory signing, with registered keys. Great. Why not
also require people to have their SSN's tattooed on the inside of
their forearms? That way, if some one is so foolish as to say 
something you didn't want to hear, you'll know 
who to sue 'for the theft of your valuable time'.

You're doing the Surveilance State's work for it.  
People who whine 'there oughta be a law' 
everytime anything in life goes against their 
expectations are helping build Big Brother. 
This is called 'being a Useful Idiot'.

>Further, some of us use ISDN to get their email and transferring the
>extra junk adds to the pay/minute connections.

So the rest of the world should give up privacy and anonymity to
fix your poor choice of service provider? You made your bed; now
lie in it.

sunder: get a grip. Coercive legislation is simply not the
appropriate solution for such a minor problem as spam.

guy@panix.com writes:
>Why are you asking the cypherpunks list?

Because I'm active on the list, and I spend more
time here skipping messages about spam than
I do killing actual spam.

Masque.









From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: celeste@seeme.net
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 17:57:49 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: Valentine Suprise
Message-ID: <36591454_72901966>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Me and my friends are so lonely!! 
I wish that you would come and see me. 
With Valentines day coming I don't want to be alone. 
I will do anything to make you happy, 
if you want me to I'll even invite a friend over to join us.  
Just PLEASE don't let me be alone!  
I'll be awaiting for you every night.
I'll be at: http://www.cyber-fantasy.com/




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: sunder 
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 16:24:09 -0800 (PST)
To: "William H. Geiger III" 
Subject: Re: Five industry giants propose encryption plan to protect Hollywood
In-Reply-To: <199802210056.TAA07362@users.invweb.net>
Message-ID: <34F21246.7B6B00A8@brainlink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Oh please.  You could always (for computers anyway) write your own drivers for
video cards and sound cards that not only display stuff, but also save it to
a hard drive as it's being recieved.  Whoop!

 >   >   Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 11:13:50 -0800 (PST)
> >   >   From: William Knowles 
> >   >
> >   >   BURBANK, Calif. (February 19, 1998 09:06 a.m. EST
> >   >   http://www.nando.net) -- Five computer and electronics industry
> >giants
> >   >   have agreed on a strategy to prevent people from illegally copying
> >   >   digital movies and music, the Los Angeles Times reported Thursday.
> >   >
> >   >   According to the proposal, high-definition TV sets, personal

> Well I have gone over this in previous posts that right's management
> woun't work against the bootlegers as at some time you have to display the
> raw data to the user. what it will to is make things that much harder for
> the average user.

Exactly, it will probably require the average user to get involved in weird
type in the 5th word of the 6th paragraph on page 60 in volume 6 of your 
book and your ssn and your 3rd daughter's birth hour to display.  But once
displayed... it's yours.  Shit, things like Lotus ScreenCam can grab anything
displayed on screen.


-- 

=====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos==============
.+.^.+.|  Ray Arachelian    |Prying open my 3rd eye.  So good to see |./|\.
..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were      |/\|/\
<--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run  |\/|\/
../|\..| "A toast to Odin,  |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/.
.+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were....            |.....
======================= http://www.sundernet.com ==========================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: sunder 
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 16:49:12 -0800 (PST)
To: Information Security 
Subject: Re: PK & Re: Is spam really a problem?
In-Reply-To: <199802200602.BAA18990@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <34F21824.8FFA08B3@brainlink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Information Security wrote:

>    >
>    >   Until someone else gets a throw away $10 account and uses it to
>    >   spam, right?  By the time you track'em down, they already gave up
>    >   that account.  All ISP's do is to delete the spamming account, which
>    >   the spammer doesn't care about anyway.  So you achive nothing.
> 
> Talk about achieving nothing: what does server-to-server authentication
> have to do with overcoming spam from throw-away accounts?

Gives you a way of tracing the spammer and avoiding forged headers.
 
> Hey, at least ISPs are making money from terminating accounts. ;-)

Hey, ISP's do suffer damage from spammers.   If they let too many spammers on,
they'll get black listed and none of their users will be able to send mail to
some sites that chose to drop all mail from spam supporting ISP's.  This way
it's an incentive for them to drop spammers.

> And how would throw-away accounts be affected by your proposed
> massive change in SMTP protocol?

There being a contract between the ISP and the throw away account requiring
the payment of damages caused, it would provide teeth to prevent spamming.  If
spamming occurs, the spammer gets to pay for their advertising.  Right now,
spamming is relatively free for the advertiser.
 
> But these keys must be registered somewhere: whether it's at a centralized
> site or distributed, *requiring* everyone to have a digital signature for
> Internet access is twisting this elegant crypto-related technology: to
> number each and every one of us, and is exactly what will make CDA legal,
> because as soon as it's in place attributes such as "age" will be attached.

No, there is no need for a central server.  It's more than enough to require
the user to gen keys of a certain minimal length.  This takes CPU time to do
and enough so to prevent spamming.  If they use the same keys, the servers
will recognize and count the total, thus limiting them to a fixed number of
posts.
 
> Required identity repositories are a bad idea.

None are needed.  Just valid public keys linked to the IP of the incoming
messages.
i.e. a public key along with the ip the shit comes from signed with the private
key
is enough.  If the ip doesn't match the connection IP, the connection gets
dropped.
The fact that there's a public key means that the receiver server can track ip
to 
keys.  Maybe throwing a secured form of identd might help as well.
 
> What, you want _me_ to solve the UCE problem?
> 
> Okay.

Erm, if you chose to, have fun doing it.  These are suggestions for a 
cryptographic solution as opposed to a congressional fuck you up the ass
and kill your rights solution.

> I think if Brad (EFF Director) Templeton's whitelist system were
> made available at the firewall/enterprise level, then widely
> deployed, spam would be dead.

Sounds good to me, except that it's a huge pain for the senders to send
any messaage to anyone.
 
> It's a handy little bot-reply mechanism that asks unknown authors
> to verify they aren't sending UCE, else face a monetary penalty.
 
> The most important part of this design is that it requires
> no control-freak changes to the Internet.

As does my scheme.

> Don't suggest solutions that *require* digital signatures of everyone.

Pushing crypto over legislation is worthwhile in any case, and pushes
towards anonymous reputation capital systems.

> This might work too:
> 
> Throttle email going through the ISP's mailserver.
> 
> Maybe 5/minute limit, flagging attempts to go faster to the admins.

With a count of users.  If Dick Spammer is spamming someone he doesn't
much give a shit about 5 minute delays.  It only prevents massive massive
spams.  As long as the sysadmins don't notice you can send a fuckload of
mail even with 5min delays.
 
> As for direct PPP connectivity, upgrade router software to throttle.
> (Port SMTP traffic)

Yep.

> Certain people, at the ISP's choice, would have a higher limit,
> for mailing lists and such.
> ---guy

Yep.
 
>    Think.

Erm, Think Different.  (I always did prefer Apple over IBM.)

-- 

=====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos==============
.+.^.+.|  Ray Arachelian    |Prying open my 3rd eye.  So good to see |./|\.
..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were      |/\|/\
<--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run  |\/|\/
../|\..| "A toast to Odin,  |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/.
.+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were....            |.....
======================= http://www.sundernet.com ==========================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 20:25:00 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com (Cypherpunks)
Subject: return.C -- performance tracking tool (fwd)
Message-ID: <199802240424.WAA21282@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



I have been using this program for a while and decided to share it
with the other readers. It is written in C++.

/***********************************************************************

This program calculates the total portfolio return.  It may be used
to find out an individual's stock picking performance and compare it
to some benchmark.

Right now it compiles under Unix, but I would expect it to work under
DOS and Win32 console interface. To compile it, type

	gcc -lm -lg++ -o return return.C

This program was written because I was not satisfied with the existing
portfolio tracking websites due to their extremely limited and incorrect
functionality.

It works by treating your investments as a "mutual fund". It tracks
the number of "shares" held. It means that additional cash infusions,
withdrawals, stock splits, sales of securities do not affect the per share
value. This is done so that the changing size of the portfolio would not
skew the estimate of the true performance of the stock picker. However,
dividends, fees and recorded capital appreciation do affect the per
share value.

Short sales are allowed by specifying a negative stock amount.

I strongly suggest that investors regularly record stock prices into their
transaction files (using the VAL operator) to monitor how they are doing.

USAGE:

	portfolio-return transaction-file-name TICKER=price TICKER=price ...

EXAMPLE

	portfolio-return MYSTOCKS.TXT MSFT=130 T=65.56

It reads a text file that contains the record of transactions, and 
prices, and requests to print out the portfolio value.

# This is a typical file used to calculate total return.
# This file contains comments, marked by "#" characters,
# and transaction info.
#
# Transaction info consists of records of the following form:
#
# INV Amount                    -- tells how much was invested in Category
# PUR Ticker numshares share_price   -- stock purchase info
# SAL Ticker numshares share_price   -- stock sale
# DIV Ticker Amount                  -- how much dividend was received
# WDR Amount                         -- cash withdrawal
# VAL Ticker Amount                  -- Value per share
# SPL Ticker new_to_old              -- stock split
# FEE amount                         -- various fees (like margin loan 
#					interest, commission etc)
# (negative FEE means incoming cash, from e.g interest on the cash held
# by the broker)
# PRN Comment                        -- Print portfolio with Comment
#

Happy investing.

Copyright (c) Igor Chudov 1997. 

	ichudov@algebra.com
	http://www.algebra.com/~ichudov

GNU Copyright applies. There is NO WARRANTY WHATSOEVER. By using this
program you agree to indemnify and hold it author harmless from any
liabilities resulting in connection with your use of the program.

You are allowed to copy this program freely provided that the copyright 
notice remains intact.

*/
 
#include 
#include 
#include 
#include 
#include 
 
#define Money       double
#define StockTicker char *
#define Date        int
 
class Stock {
public:
   Stock( const StockTicker theTicker,
          int theQuantity = 0,
          Money theValue = 0.0 )
      : Ticker( strdup( theTicker ) ),
        Quantity( theQuantity ),
        Value( theValue )
        {
           // nothing
        }
 
   ~Stock( void ) { delete[] Ticker; }
   void  Purchase( int theQuantity )         { Quantity += theQuantity; }
   int   GetQuantity( void ) const           { return Quantity; };
   void  SetValue( Money theValue )          { Value = theValue; }
   Money GetValue( void ) const              { return Value; }
   const StockTicker GetTicker( void ) const { return Ticker; }
   void  Split( Money factor ) { Quantity *= factor, Value /= factor; }
private:
   Money Value;
   StockTicker Ticker;
   int Quantity;
};
 
typedef Stock * PStock;
 
class Portfolio {
public:
  Portfolio( void );
  ~Portfolio( void );
 
  // What can happen to the portfolios:
  // Add cash to the portfolio
  void Invest( Money Cash );
 
  // Purchase (or sell (even short) if Quantity is negative)
  void Purchase( const StockTicker Ticker, int Quantity, Money Value );
 
  // Dividend received, 1 success, 0 failure
  int Dividend( const StockTicker Ticker, Money DividendPerShare );
 
  // Split, factor is new # of shares to old # of shares, 1 success, 0 failure
  int Split( const StockTicker Ticker, Money factor );
 
  // Withdrawal
  void Withdraw( Money Amount );

  // Fee -- margin interest, commission etc
  void Fee( Money amount );
 
  // Change in Stock valuation
  int Valuation( StockTicker Ticker, Money theValue );
 
  /////////////////////////////
  // Equity = Cash + StockValue
  Money Equity( void ) const;
 
  Money EquityPerShare( void ) const { return Equity()/NumShares; }
 
  int GetNumShares( void ) const { return NumShares; }
 
  void Print( ostream & os, const char * comment = 0 );
 
protected:
 
  void Revaluate( void );
 
  int FindStock( const StockTicker Ticker );
 
private:
 
  Stock ** Stocks;
  int NumberStocks;
  int MaxNumberStocks;
  Money Return;
  Money LastDate;
  Money Cash;
  Money NumShares;
};
 
Portfolio::Portfolio( void )
   : NumberStocks( 0 ),
     MaxNumberStocks( 100 ),
     Cash( 0.0 ),
     NumShares( 0 ),
     Return( 0.0 ),
     LastDate( 0 )
{
   Stocks = new PStock[ MaxNumberStocks ];
}
 
Portfolio::~Portfolio( void )
{
   delete[] Stocks;
}
 
void Portfolio::Invest( Money theCash )
{
//cout << "investing " << theCash << endl;
 
   if( NumShares != 0 )
     {
       NumShares += theCash/EquityPerShare();
       Cash += theCash;
     }
   else
     {
       Cash = theCash;
       NumShares = Cash;
     }
}
 
 
void Portfolio::Withdraw( Money Amount )
{
   Invest( -Amount );
}
 
void Portfolio::Fee( Money Amount )
{
   Cash -= Amount;
}
 
int Portfolio::FindStock( const StockTicker Ticker )
{
  for( int i = 0; i < NumberStocks; i++ )
    if( !strcmp( Ticker, Stocks[i]->GetTicker() ) )
      {
        return i;
        break;
      }
  return -1;
}
 
void Portfolio::Purchase( const StockTicker Ticker,
                          int Quantity,
                          Money Value )
{
   int found = FindStock( Ticker );
 
   if( found == -1 ) // need to add a stock
     {
       if( NumberStocks == MaxNumberStocks ) // need to resize
         {
            Stock ** NewStocks = new PStock[ MaxNumberStocks * 2 ];
            memcpy( NewStocks, Stocks, sizeof( Stock ) * MaxNumberStocks );
            delete[] Stocks;
            Stocks = NewStocks;
            MaxNumberStocks *= 2;
         }
       found = NumberStocks++;
       Stocks[found] = new Stock( Ticker, Quantity, Value );
     }
   else
     {
        Stocks[found]->Purchase( Quantity );
        Stocks[found]->SetValue( Value );
     }
 
   Cash -= Quantity * Value;
}
 
int Portfolio::Dividend( const StockTicker Ticker, Money DividendPerShare )
{
  int found = FindStock( Ticker );
 
  if( found == -1 )
     return 0;
 
  Cash += DividendPerShare * Stocks[found]->GetQuantity();
}
 
int Portfolio::Split( const StockTicker Ticker, Money Factor )
{
  int found = FindStock( Ticker );
 
  if( found == -1 )
     return 0;
 
  Stocks[found]->Split( Factor );
}
 
 
int Portfolio::Valuation( StockTicker Ticker, Money theValue )
{
  int found = FindStock( Ticker );
  if( found == -1 )
     return 0; // failure
 
  Stocks[found]->SetValue( theValue );
 
  return 1; // success
}
 
 
Money Portfolio::Equity( void ) const
{
   Money e = Cash;
 
   for( int i =0; i < NumberStocks; i++ )
      e += Stocks[i]->GetQuantity() * Stocks[i]->GetValue();
 
   return e ;
}
 
void Portfolio::Print( ostream & os, const char * comment )
{
  os << endl << "Portfolio: " << (comment ? comment : "" ) << endl;
 
  for( int i = 0; i < NumberStocks; i++ )
     os << Stocks[i]->GetTicker() << " "
        << Stocks[i]->GetQuantity() << " "
        << Stocks[i]->GetValue() << ", Total = "
        << Stocks[i]->GetValue() * Stocks[i]->GetQuantity() << endl;
  os << "Cash: " << Cash << endl;
 
  cout << "Equity = " << Equity() << endl;
  cout << "Number of Shares = " << GetNumShares() << endl;
  cout << "Share Value = " << EquityPerShare() << endl;
}
 
void ReadHistory( Portfolio & portfolio, FILE * f )
{
   while( !feof( f ) )
     {
        char buf[2048];
        buf[0] = 0;
        fgets( buf, sizeof( buf ), f );
 
        //cout << buf;
        char * p = strchr( buf, '#' );
        if( p != 0 ) *p = 0;  // Comment #
 
        for( p = buf; *p; p++ ) *p = toupper( *p );
 
        if( !strncmp( buf, "INV", 3 ) )
         {
            //cout << "investing" << endl;
 
            float amount;
            if( sscanf( buf+4, "%f", &amount ) == 1 )
               portfolio.Invest( amount );
            else
               fprintf( stderr, "Invalid transaction: %s\n", buf );
         }
        else if( !strncmp( buf, "WDR", 3 ) )
         {
            float amount;
            if( sscanf( buf+4, "%f", &amount ) == 1 )
               portfolio.Invest( -amount );
            else
               fprintf( stderr, "Invalid transaction: %s\n", buf );
         }
        else if( !strncmp( buf, "PUR", 3 ) )
         {
            float price;
            int numshares;
            char ticker[2048];
 
            if( sscanf( buf+4, "%s %d %f", &ticker, &numshares, &price ) == 3 )
              portfolio.Purchase( ticker, numshares, price );
            else
              fprintf( stderr, "Invalid transaction: %s\n", buf );
         }
        else if( !strncmp( buf, "FEE", 3 ) )
         {
            float amount;
 
            if( sscanf( buf+4, "%f", &amount ) == 1 )
              portfolio.Fee( amount );
            else
              fprintf( stderr, "Invalid transaction: %s\n", buf );
         }
        else if( !strncmp( buf, "SAL", 3 ) )
         {
            float price;
            int numshares;
            char ticker[2048];
 
            if( sscanf( buf+4, "%s %d %f", &ticker, &numshares, &price ) == 3 )
              portfolio.Purchase( ticker, -numshares, price );
            else
              fprintf( stderr, "Invalid transaction: %s\n", buf );
         }
        else if( !strncmp( buf, "DIV", 3 ) )
         {
            float div;
            char ticker[2048];
            if( sscanf( buf+4, "%s %f", &ticker, &div ) == 2 )
              portfolio.Dividend( ticker, div );
            else
              fprintf( stderr, "Invalid transaction: %s\n", buf );
         }
        else if( !strncmp( buf, "VAL", 3 ) )
         {
            float val;
            char ticker[2048];
            if( sscanf( buf+4, "%s %f", &ticker, &val ) == 2 )
              portfolio.Valuation( ticker, val );
            else
              fprintf( stderr, "Invalid transaction: %s\n", buf );
         }
        else if( !strncmp( buf, "SPL", 3 ) )
         {
            float factor;
            char ticker[2048];
            if( sscanf( buf+4, "%s %f", &ticker, &factor ) == 2 )
              portfolio.Split( ticker, factor );
            else
              fprintf( stderr, "Invalid transaction: %s\n", buf );
         }
        else if( !strncmp( buf, "PRN", 3 ) )
         {
              portfolio.Print( cout, buf + 4 );
         }
     }
}
 
int main( int argc, char *argv[] )
{
   Portfolio portfolio;
 
   FILE * input;
   if( argc >= 2 )
   {
      if( (input = fopen( argv[1], "r" )) == 0 )
      {
         fprintf( stderr, "Can't open %s.\n"
               "Usage: %s activity-file TICK=val TICK1=val ...\n",
               argv[1], argv[0] );
         exit( 1 );
      }
   }
   else
   {
      input = stdin;
   }

   ReadHistory( portfolio, input );
 
   for( argc--; argc > 1; argc-- )
      // process arguments of form "TICKER=value"
     {
       char buf[ 2048 ];
       strcpy( buf, argv[argc] );

       for( char * p = buf; *p; p++ ) *p = toupper( *p );
 
       char * pvalue = strchr( buf, '=' );
 
       if( pvalue == 0 )
         {
           cerr << "Wrong argument: " << argv[argc]
                << ". Must be of form TICKER=value" << endl;
           continue;
         }
 
       *pvalue++=0;
 
       float value;
 
       if( sscanf( pvalue, "%f", &value ) != 1 )
       {
          cerr << "Wrong argument: " << argv[argc]
               << ". Must be of form TICKER=value" << endl;
          continue;
       }
 
       if( !portfolio.Valuation( buf, value ) )
       {
          cerr << "Ticker " << buf << " not found in the portfolio!" << endl;
       }
     }
 
   portfolio.Print( cout, "Final Result" );
 
   printf( "\n\n"
"Copyright (C) Igor Chudov, ichudov@algebra.com,\n"
"	http://www.algebra.com/~ichudov\n\n"
"No warranty is provided with this free program. GNU Copyright applies.\n" );

}




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Peter Trei 
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 19:57:17 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: DDJ Crypto CD has arrived!
Message-ID: <34F252DA.652A@ziplink.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Well, it's finally here.

Frankly, I'm a little disapointed with the presentation. It's based
around a program called Hyper Reader, from Intergaid. This seems a bit
out of date - the copyright runs from 1987-1994. While this may have
been driven by a desire to support Win 3.1 without extra software, an
HTML based approach would have been my preference.

I've encountered a few minor bugs in the few minutes I've played with
it; not all of the buttons work properly, and the color maps go to hell
when the program's window is not selected.

While the book data is stored in some proprietary format with an *.hw4
extension, chapters can be easily exported to flat text files. They
can also be exported in WP format, but diagrams don't seem to come
out (at least when I export them to MS Word) - figures seem to 
be scanned bitmaps from the books.

Here's the copyright data, which lists the books present:


>Applied Cryptography, Cryptographic Protocols, and Computer Security >Models by Richard Demillo. Copyright 1983, American Mathematical >Society. All rights reserved.

>Applied Cryptography: Protocols, Algorithms, and Source Code in C, >Second Edition, by Bruce Schneier. Copyright  1995, John Wiley & Sons, >Inc. All rights reserved.

>Contemporary Cryptology: The Science of Information Integrity, edited >by Gustavus J. Simmons, Copyright  1992, IEEE. All rights reserved. No >part of this book may be reproduced or transmitted in any form or by >any means, electronic or mechanical, including photocopying, recording >or by any information storage and retrieval system, without permission >in writing from the IEEE.

>Cryptography and Data Security by Dorothy Denning. Copyright 1982, >Addison-Wesley Publishing Co., Inc. All rights reserved. No part of >this book may be reproduced or transmitted in any form or by any means, >electronic or mechanical, including photocopying, recording, or by any >information storage and retrieval system, without permission in writing >from Addison-Wesley Longman, Inc. Use of this licensed CD-ROM version >is subject to the terms of the individual, noncommercial license >granted the purchaser of this CD-ROM version.

>Cryptography: A New Dimension in Computer Data Security, by Carl Meyer. >Copyright 1982, John Wiley &Sons. All rights reserved.

>Cryptography: Theory and Practice, by Douglas Stinson., Copyright 1995, >CRC Press. All rights reserved.

>Handbook of Applied Cryptography, by Paul C. Van Oorschot, Scott A. >Vanstone, and Alfred Menezes. Copyright 1996, CRC Press. All rights >reserved.

>Military Cryptanalysis, Volume I, by William Friedman, Aegean Park >Press. All rights reserved
> Military Cryptanalysis, Volumes II, by William Friedman, Aegean Park >Press. All rights reserved. 
>Military Cryptanalysis, Volumes III, by William Friedman, Aegean Park >Press. All rights reserved. 
>Military Cryptanalysis, Volumes IV, by William Friedman, Aegean Park >Press. All rights reserved.

>"RSA Laboratories FAQ on Cryptography," "RSA Laboratories Technical >Reports," "RSA Laboratories Security Bulletins," and "CrytoBytes >Newsletter" Copyright 1997 RSA Data Security, Inc. All rights >reserved.

For those wondering: Applied Cryptography includes the source code
appendix. I have not checked if it has the 5th printing corrections.


Peter Trei
ptrei@securitydynamics.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Betty G.O'Hearn" 
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 20:56:26 -0800 (PST)
To: JOEL@infowar.com
Subject: IRC CHAT  Terrorism and Desert Thunder
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980223235855.02f99cd0@mail.infowar.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/enriched


Come join us and chat with Clark Staten, 
Senior Analyst, Emergency Response & Research Institute


Date:  Tuesday, February 24, 1998

Time:  7:30 pm  EST, 6:30 pm CST, 5:30pm MST, and 4:30pm PST  (US)

Topic:  "Terrorism and Desert Thunder"



If you're interested in attending, please reply with a request for a password and instructions to enter the chat room.  





Betty O'Hearn
Assistant to Mr. Winn Schwartau
813-360-6256 Voice
813-363-7277 FAX
http://www.infowar.com
http://www.info-sec.com

"Air Power is an unusually seductive form of military strength because, like modern courtship, it appears to offer the pleasures of gratification without the burdens of commitment."   Eliot A. Cohen




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 03:04:15 -0800 (PST)
To: sunder 
Subject: Re: Five industry giants propose encryption plan to protect Hollywood
In-Reply-To: <34F21246.7B6B00A8@brainlink.com>
Message-ID: <199802241137.GAA12838@users.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Boundary..3989.1071713780.multipart/signed"

--Boundary..3989.1071713780.multipart/signed
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In <34F21246.7B6B00A8@brainlink.com>, on 02/23/98 
   at 07:20 PM, sunder  said:

>Oh please.  You could always (for computers anyway) write your own
>drivers for video cards and sound cards that not only display stuff, but
>also save it to a hard drive as it's being recieved.  Whoop!

Well sitting down and writting a device driver is above and beyond the
ability of the average WinBlows user. More than likely it is above and
beyond the average "programmer" (ASM what's that??). M$ is already playing
around with using crypto and only allowing signed programs to run under
their OS (Crypto API, Active-X) it is not hard to imagine that they could
have the new version of their OS only allow device drivers that have been
approved and signed by microsoft (when you control +90% of the market you
can get away with silly shit like this).


> >   >   Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 11:13:50 -0800 (PST)
>> >   >   From: William Knowles 
>> >   >
>> >   >   BURBANK, Calif. (February 19, 1998 09:06 a.m. EST
>> >   >   http://www.nando.net) -- Five computer and electronics industry
>> >giants
>> >   >   have agreed on a strategy to prevent people from illegally copying
>> >   >   digital movies and music, the Los Angeles Times reported Thursday.
>> >   >
>> >   >   According to the proposal, high-definition TV sets, personal

>> Well I have gone over this in previous posts that right's management
>> woun't work against the bootlegers as at some time you have to display the
>> raw data to the user. what it will to is make things that much harder for
>> the average user.

>Exactly, it will probably require the average user to get involved in
>weird type in the 5th word of the 6th paragraph on page 60 in volume 6 of
>your  book and your ssn and your 3rd daughter's birth hour to display. 
>But once displayed... it's yours.  Shit, things like Lotus ScreenCam can
>grab anything displayed on screen.

Yes but I wouldn't want to use ScreenCam to copy a 100 page document. My
point was it would not make it impossible to copy the data just that it
would raise the "threshold of pain" above what the average user is willing
to endure.

-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html                        
---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: OS/2, Windows/0


--Boundary..3989.1071713780.multipart/signed
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--Boundary..3989.1071713780.multipart/signed--



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William R. Butler" 
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 05:28:42 -0800 (PST)
To: celeste@seeme.com
Subject: Re: Valentine Suprise
Message-ID: <19980224132805.19244.qmail@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


FUCK-OFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
************************

----Original Message Follows----
From: celeste@seeme.net
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 17:57:41 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: Valentine Suprise
Reply-To: celeste@seeme.com


Me and my friends are so lonely!! 
I wish that you would come and see me. 
With Valentines day coming I don't want to be alone. 
I will do anything to make you happy, 
if you want me to I'll even invite a friend over to join us.  
Just PLEASE don't let me be alone!  
I'll be awaiting for you every night.
I'll be at: http://www.cyber-fantasy.com/



______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "wowcom@ctia.org" 
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 14:30:14 -0800 (PST)
To: broadcast@nmpinc.com
Subject: WOW-COM News Update
Message-ID: <34F2A7B8.5CD9EAE7@ctia.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


======================================================
 This update is sponsored by Hughes Network Systems
 http://www.hns.com/2CAREERS/careerMain.html

 ======================================================
 WOW-COM named a "TOP WEBSITE" by Mobile Computing & Communications
 Magazine (2/98)

 Dear WOW-COM Reader:

 WOW-COM(TM) is the wireless industry's online information source, a
 free service of CTIA.  The world of wireless is in constant motion.
 Stay on top of the news  and benefit from CTIA's analysis by reading
http://www.wow-com.com  everyday.

 INDEX:
 ======
 1) LARGEST WIRELESS INDUSTRY SHOW, WIRELESS 98, BEGAN TODAY IN ATLANTA,

GA.

 2) CTIA AGAIN CALLS ON FCC TO TAKE ACTION ON WIRETAP STANDARDS

 3)  CTIA ASKS FCC FOR IMPROVEMENTS IN ENHANCED 9-1-1 RULES


 **WIRELESS JOB OPPORTUNITY OF THE WEEK***********

 http://www.hns.com/2CAREERS/careerMain.html

 Company:   Hughes Network Systems
 Job Title: Senior Digital Design Engineer - Hardware
 Location:  Germantown, MD - US
 Job Description:   Lead digital design engineer for satellite
 baseband communications hardware.  Position requires experience in
 design of digital communications subsystems such as modulators,
 demodulators, digital filters, NCOs and FEC encoders/decoders.
 Requires BSEE (MSEE preferred) and 7-10 years of digital design
 experience with emphasis on communication circuit design.

 **********************************************************************

 WIRELESS 98 TO BEGIN NEXT WEEK IN ATLANTA
 ==========================================================


 http://www.wow-com.com/professional/convention/

 CTIA's WIRELESS 98 is breaking all records.  Sessions at the largest,
 global wireless convention feature hot topics and top industry
 speakers.  On February 23-25, join the largest gathering of analysts,
 CEO's, equipment suppliers, hardware manufacturers, network operators,
 retailers, regulators, software developers and venture capitalists
from around the world for the most comprehensive wireless
 telecommunications exposition - - WIRELESS 98. It's only 6 days away!
 Don't miss it!

CTIA AGAIN CALLS ON FCC TO TAKE ACTION ON WIRETAP STANDARDS
 =========================================================

 http://www.wow-com.com/professional/WirelessDigest/

 The Cellular Telecommunications Industry Association has filed
 comments with the Federal Communications Commission again asking
 that it take several steps in regard to implementation of the federal
 Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act. CTIA points
 out that the telecommunications industry has moved forward
 towards timely implementation of the Act, but that the law enforcement
 community, represented by the Federal Bureau of Investigation, has
continued to delay the process.  Read it here.  Simply click above for
full text.


 CTIA ASKS FCC FOR IMPROVEMENTS IN ENHANCED 9-1-1 RULES
 ==========================================================
 http://www.wow-com.com/results/professional/news/index.cfm

 "Enhanced 9-1-1" will provide the next generation of emergency
 services for wireless phone users.  The basic outline for Enhanced
 9-1-1 services was developed jointly by the public safety
 communications community and CTIA.  In a petition filed yesterday,
 CTIA points out that the FCC should improve wireless emergency calls
 throughout the United States.  To learn more about CTIA's petition and
 other implementation issues regarding 9-1-1 please click above.


 =============================
 MORE WOW-COM(TM) FEATURES
 =============================
 WOW-COM(TM) is current: Routine Updates throughout the business day
 WOW-COM(TM) is insightful: CTIA's unbiased analysis
 WOW-COM(TM) is beneficial: Find products and services in
 WOW-COM(TM)'s Virtual Trade Show.   List open positions
 in the WOW-COM(TM) Career Center, receive resumes via email
 and hire qualified individuals.

 ========================================================

 This update sponsored by: HUGHES NETWORK SYSTEMS
 http://www.hns.com/2CAREERS/careerMain.html

 Hughes Network Systems is one of the fastest-growing digital
 communications companies  in the world, providing world-class
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http:// www.hns.com/2CAREERS/careerMain.html to explore the 100+
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 currently available.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mike Stone - McAfee Fulfillment 
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 07:35:30 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: McAfee Special Offer
Message-ID: <199802241531.HAA03776@mail.mcafee.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Hello again.

I know, I have already e-mailed you once.  But I wanted to follow up 
with you;  you visited our web site in the past and I responded to 
give us a call regarding our Special Pricing.  Your 30 day evaluation 
period has ended and by licensing VirusScan you can continue up-to-date
protection from the over 15,000 viruses including the 250 new viruses 
that appear each month alone!  Give us a call and we can set you up to 
continue your protection.  We can quote you a SPECIAL PRICE on VirusScan 
and even have a special 50% off offer for Nuts & Bolts which recovers 
lost drives and files, optimizes your pc, fixes glitches, and enables
your computer  to operate at peak speed!

Send sensitive information at work or over the net? - We now offer
PGP Encryption software to secure you data, ask us about it today!

This promotion is going to end on February 27th.   I would hate for you to 
miss out.  I'm not the only one at our phones here (800-338-8754 x2225), 
so if you already took us up on it, I'd like to add, "Thanks!!" and 
I hope you enjoy the product! 

This offer limited to USA & Canada

Sincerely,
Mike Stone
Mike_Stone@cc.mcafee.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 06:04:12 -0800 (PST)
To: Alexandre Maret 
Subject: Re: return.C -- performance tracking tool (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <34F2CF5D.8276D7FB@infomaniak.ch>
Message-ID: <199802241436.JAA14156@users.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Boundary..3989.1071713780.multipart/signed"

--Boundary..3989.1071713780.multipart/signed
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In <34F2CF5D.8276D7FB@infomaniak.ch>, on 02/24/98 
   at 02:47 PM, Alexandre Maret  said:

>Igor Chudov @ home wrote:
>> 
>> I have been using this program for a while and decided to share it
>> with the other readers. It is written in C++.

>this is not a financial mailing list.
>and this code is not C++... it just needs a C++ compiler to
>compile. real C++ code doesn't use fprintf, scanf, nor strcmp...

Let's not forget that *real* C++ apps are bloated several time that of
comparable C apps (god forbid anyone write some tight ASM code).

$1.00 <== Inflation

-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html                        
---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: Get OS/2 - the best Windows tip around!


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--Boundary..3989.1071713780.multipart/signed--



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Charles Anthony" 
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 06:04:33 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: In todays CyberTimes--"European Study Paints a Chilling  Portrai
Message-ID: <199802241404.IAA16583@bitstream.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


FYI - In today's CyberTimes:


"European Study Paints a Chilling  Portrait of Technology's 
Uses"

By BRUNO GIUSSANI

" A massive telecommunications interception network
 operates within Europe and, according to a new
 study circulating on the Internet, "targets the telephone, 
fax   and e-mail messages of private citizens, politicians, 
trade unionists and companies alike." 


The article can be found at:

http://www.nytimes.com/library/cyber/euro/022498euro.html








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William R. Butler" 
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 08:44:35 -0800 (PST)
To: melder@descartes.coker.edu
Subject: Re: Valentine Suprise
Message-ID: <19980224164402.8312.qmail@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Yes you are prob. right but I do get a little burned about it in my mail 
all the time.

----Original Message Follows----
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 10:00:46 -0500
To: "William R. Butler" 
From: Michael Elder 
Subject: Re: Valentine Suprise
Cc: cypherpunks@toad.com,celeste@seeme.com

At 05:28 AM 2/24/98 PST, William R. Butler wrote:
>FUCK-OFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>************************

...

>Me and my friends are so lonely!! 
>I wish that you would come and see me. 
>With Valentines day coming I don't want to be alone. 
>I will do anything to make you happy, 
>if you want me to I'll even invite a friend over to join us.  
>Just PLEASE don't let me be alone!  
>I'll be awaiting for you every night.
>I'll be at: http://www.cyber-fantasy.com/
>

I think that was the point of the advertisement d=]

-E.






______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 07:27:09 -0800 (PST)
To: Information Security 
Subject: Re:  In todays CyberTimes--"European Study Paints a Chilling  Portrai
In-Reply-To: <199802241500.KAA14055@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <199802241600.LAA14937@users.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Boundary..3989.1071713780.multipart/signed"

--Boundary..3989.1071713780.multipart/signed
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In <199802241500.KAA14055@panix2.panix.com>, on 02/24/98 
   at 10:00 AM, Information Security  said:

>   "The network, dubbed Echelon, is described in a new study
>    by the European Parliament titled

>       'An Appraisal of Technologies of Political Control.'" 


>It's high time Don Mclean (sic) or someone took the
>extensive documentation collected in the Cryptography
>Manifesto regarding this, which includes massive USA domestic spying, and
>started writing news stories about it, and
>get other news organizations interested in the questions
>raised. Questions to be put to Senators.

>Why?

>Because it is ECHELON, not pedophiles, not drug dealers,
>that is not only the hold-up for freely exportable
>software, but also for why the FBI has openly moved
>to regulate all domestic cryptography into oblivion.

>The story of massive spying is one "the American people"
>can understand. Cryptography is too distant.

>Go for it, someone, please.

The sheeple don't care.

The sheeple are well aware of the abuses of power by our government and
they don't care nor have they cared for a long time. So long as they have
a roof over their heads, cloths on their back, a color TV and their
microwave dinners they are willing to let the government do whatever they
want.

Where was the great outcry by the people when the government blatantly
covered up the assassination of JFK with the Warren Commission?

Where was the great outcry by the people with the numerous atrocities
committed by the FBI,CIA,BATF, ...?

Where was the great outcry by the people over the coverup of the murder of
Vince Foster?

Where was the great outcry by the people over the murder of innocent
children at Waco?

They just don't care and this report woun't be so much as a blip on the
radar screen. The Feds will just wrap this up in the cover of fighting the
four horsemen and it will be business as usual.

-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html                        
---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: Why look thru Windows? Open the door to the future: OS/2


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Elder 
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 07:03:00 -0800 (PST)
To: trei@ziplink.net
Subject: Re: DDJ Crypto CD has arrived!
In-Reply-To: <34F252DA.652A@ziplink.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980224095821.007c1940@descartes.coker.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


trei@ziplink.net wrote:

>>Applied Cryptography: Protocols, Algorithms, and Source Code in C,
>Second Edition, by Bruce Schneier. Copyright  1995, John Wiley & Sons,
>Inc. All rights reserved.
>For those wondering: Applied Cryptography includes the source code
>appendix. I have not checked if it has the 5th printing corrections.

Just a little note of interest, AC is currently in its sixth printing. I
just got it last week.

-E.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 07:00:49 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re:  In todays CyberTimes--"European Study Paints a Chilling  Portrai
Message-ID: <199802241500.KAA14055@panix2.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


   >   From: "Charles Anthony" 
   >   The article can be found at:
   >
   >   http://www.nytimes.com/library/cyber/euro/022498euro.html

   "The network, dubbed Echelon, is described in a new study
    by the European Parliament titled

       'An Appraisal of Technologies of Political Control.'" 


It's high time Don Mclean (sic) or someone took the
extensive documentation collected in the Cryptography
Manifesto regarding this, which includes massive USA domestic
spying, and started writing news stories about it, and
get other news organizations interested in the questions
raised. Questions to be put to Senators.

Why?

Because it is ECHELON, not pedophiles, not drug dealers,
that is not only the hold-up for freely exportable
software, but also for why the FBI has openly moved
to regulate all domestic cryptography into oblivion.

The story of massive spying is one "the American people"
can understand. Cryptography is too distant.

Go for it, someone, please.
---guy

   No one listens to me.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Elder 
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 07:05:30 -0800 (PST)
To: "William R. Butler" 
Subject: Re: Valentine Suprise
In-Reply-To: <19980224132805.19244.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980224100046.007bf100@descartes.coker.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 05:28 AM 2/24/98 PST, William R. Butler wrote:
>FUCK-OFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>************************

...

>Me and my friends are so lonely!! 
>I wish that you would come and see me. 
>With Valentines day coming I don't want to be alone. 
>I will do anything to make you happy, 
>if you want me to I'll even invite a friend over to join us.  
>Just PLEASE don't let me be alone!  
>I'll be awaiting for you every night.
>I'll be at: http://www.cyber-fantasy.com/
>

I think that was the point of the advertisement d=]

-E.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 08:15:22 -0800 (PST)
To: Information Security 
Subject: Re: Fight ECHELON while the topic is hot!
In-Reply-To: <199802241543.KAA18074@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <199802241648.LAA15368@users.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Boundary..3989.1071713780.multipart/signed"

--Boundary..3989.1071713780.multipart/signed
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In <199802241543.KAA18074@panix2.panix.com>, on 02/24/98 
   at 10:43 AM, Information Security  said:

>Whooey!

>I'd say a number of senior people on this list are burnt
>out fighting the good fight.

>Did the government at least acknowledge it fucked up
>in the Weaver case to the tune of $3.1 million?

Nope, as a matter of fact the Administration was just arguing before the
SC that the murders in this case should not be held accountable.

>Didn't the person in charge, who Freeh promoted to
>second-in-command at the FBI, have his career destroyed?

One scapegoat and the organization goes on, business as usual. When I see
a 100,000 citizens storm the J.E.Hoover Building and drag that ratbastard
Freeh out by his heals then come back and tell us what a difference you
have made.

>Didn't the government finally back down on their
>attempt to legally kill the Unabomber?

So what? IMHO he should have been fried. Hell I'll even pay for the plane
ticket for him to come down here and meet 'ol sparky. :)

>Didn't the Pentagon Papers make it out?

What did it change? NOTHING

>Isn't ECHELON documented by person after person,
>including someone formerly in DOJ with top-secret
>clearance?

>Go for it!

>It is *you* who are advocating being a "sheeple"!!!

No not at all I just don't have any pie-in-the-sky daydreams that it will
mean squat! I have better things to do with my time than dealing with a
news media who's highest goal is to sell more tampons and toilet paper to
the sheeple.

-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgpmr2.html                        
---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: Windws is ine for bckgroun comunicaions


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 07:43:55 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Fight ECHELON while the topic is hot!
Message-ID: <199802241543.KAA18074@panix2.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


   >   From: "William H. Geiger III" 
   >   Date: Tue, 24 Feb 98 09:16:29 -0500
   >   
   >   >It's high time Don Mclean (sic) or someone took the
   >   >extensive documentation collected in the Cryptography
   >   >Manifesto regarding this, which includes massive USA domestic spying, and
   >   >started writing news stories about it, and
   >   >get other news organizations interested in the questions
   >   >raised. Questions to be put to Senators.
   >   
   >   >Why?
   >   
   >   >Because it is ECHELON, not pedophiles, not drug dealers,
   >   >that is not only the hold-up for freely exportable
   >   >software, but also for why the FBI has openly moved
   >   >to regulate all domestic cryptography into oblivion.
   >   
   >   >The story of massive spying is one "the American people"
   >   >can understand. Cryptography is too distant.
   >   
   >   >Go for it, someone, please.
   >   
   >   The sheeple don't care.
   >   
   >   The sheeple are well aware of the abuses of power by our government and
   >   they don't care nor have they cared for a long time. So long as they have
   >   a roof over their heads, cloths on their back, a color TV and their
   >   microwave dinners they are willing to let the government do whatever they
   >   want.

Whooey!

I'd say a number of senior people on this list are burnt
out fighting the good fight.

Did the government at least acknowledge it fucked up
in the Weaver case to the tune of $3.1 million?

Didn't the person in charge, who Freeh promoted to
second-in-command at the FBI, have his career destroyed?

Didn't the government finally back down on their
attempt to legally kill the Unabomber?

Didn't the Pentagon Papers make it out?

Isn't ECHELON documented by person after person,
including someone formerly in DOJ with top-secret
clearance?

Go for it!

It is *you* who are advocating being a "sheeple"!!!
---guy

   Shame on you.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 08:22:21 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Fight ECHELON while the topic is hot!
Message-ID: <199802241622.LAA21768@panix2.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


   >   From whgiii@invweb.net Tue Feb 24 11:15:11 1998
   >   
   >   >It is *you* who are advocating being a "sheeple"!!!
   >   
   >   No not at all I just don't have any pie-in-the-sky daydreams that it will
   >   mean squat! I have better things to do with my time than dealing with a
   >   news media who's highest goal is to sell more tampons and toilet paper to
   >   the sheeple.

I said to go for it and *try* for results.

If you want to act like a disgruntled old Andy Rooney and
say "it won't make any difference", fine, but why drag
down everyone else?

The EU, not just anybody, but the EU, is talking
about massive NSA spying via ECHELON!
---guy

   Turn up the heat.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 08:24:30 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Cypherpunk Policeman?
Message-ID: <199802241624.LAA22146@panix2.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Guy wrote:
>  Has 'cypherpunks@cyberpass.net' replaced 'cypherpunks@toad.com'?

Apparently it hasn't, because I never got a copy of my own post back.

So, here it is again...


   >   From aba@dcs.ex.ac.uk Mon Feb 23 16:26:58 1998
   >   
   >   Guy  claims that he managed to persuade PSInet (who
   >   Dimitri used as his ISP) to pull his plug.

Leaving him with full access to a minimum of three other accounts.

   Don't cry for him, Ukrainia...

   >   I'd just like to feed back to Guy that I think this is uncool, and
   >   that it is counter productive.

Hey, maybe _you_ would get a warm and fuzzy feeling when
Dimitry posts a death threat (including to this list) and
signs your name: not me.

!   I will gladly pay the $50,000 (canadian) reward to whomever KILLS
!   Chris Lewis and his family, who reside in a suburb of Ottawa.
!   I'm putting the notice of the CAUCE reward on http://www.panix.com/~guy
!   ---guy

   >   Guy, you may not have hit it off with Dimitri, but this is no reason
   >   to go attempting to censor people.  Ever heard of a kill file?  

Censor?

Yeah, and the "Freedom Fighters" who are against any spam cancellation
do so because they are fighting "censorship".

I don't think so.

   >   As an aside I don't think getting into a dirty tricks contest with
   >   Dimitri is a good idea, I am pretty sure Dimitri could win by a large
   >   margin if he cared to.

No dirty tricks involved: I complained to PSINet using traffic analysis.

If he had simply called me a cocksucker, I would not have complained.

   >   Guy  writes:
   >   > PSINet terminated Vulis for stalking, which I documented he did to a
   >   > minimum of four people.
   >   
   >   What is your working definition of stalking as applied to a mailing
   >   list, USENET or email?  What are you talking about?

In addition to death threats, forging death threats: he tries to get
people fired from their jobs.

But Dimitry can't figure out where I work (MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHA), reducing
him to saying I was fired from where I _used to_ work.



This stalking: attempting to deprive someone of their right to work.


----


   >   From tcmay@got.net Mon Feb 23 17:14:50 1998
   >   
   >   At 1:24 PM -0800 2/23/98, Adam Back wrote:
   >   >Guy  claims that he managed to persuade PSInet (who
   >   >Dimitri used as his ISP) to pull his plug.
   >   >
   >   >I'd just like to feed back to Guy that I think this is uncool, and
   >   >that it is counter productive.
   >   >
   >   >Guy, you may not have hit it off with Dimitri, but this is no reason
   >   >to go attempting to censor people.  Ever heard of a kill file?
   >   
   >   I agree with Adam. As one who has borne a frontal assault of Vulis' insults
   >   and raves, and (in all probability his) ASCII artwork, I dealt with it by
   >   filtering as much of it as I could into a trash file.

Oh, great, an independently wealthy person is telling me it's not a problem
that a known stalker has posted angrily to this list asking if anyone knows
where I work.

   >   In my 10 years of actively being on the Net (though my first ARPANet
   >   account was in 1973), I've complained a handful of times to postmasters,
   >   and only _once_ because of content. The rest were about spam, mail bombs,
   >   etc.
   >   
   >   The one content-based complaint I made was about Lawrence Detweiler's
   >   attachment of my name to pro-Hitler, anti-Jewish rants he sent to
   >   newsgroups like alt.culture.jewish and alt.culture.german.

Then please explain why you agree with Adam, since I decided to complain
to PSINet about Vulis stalking me and signing my name to death threats?

   >   If Vulis can have his account yanked for calling Guy a pedophile, what
   >   about all those who have called Arthur C. Clarke a pedophile?
   >   
   >   Has there been any determination (and what does that mean anyway?) as to
   >   whether either Guy or Clarke are pedophiles?

Ahhh, that's the wrong question. Look past your nose.

Calling me a pedophile is one part of Vulis' patented style of stalking
attacks. Add to that him saying I was fired from consulting work for
being a pedophile, asking if anyone knows where I now work, etc: stalking.

It wasn't merely him being insulting, but part of a larger
Simon-Barr-Sinister pattern of behavior.

Certain behavior is not permissible regardless of the venue.

Not a direct analogy, but: you would censor (CENSOR! CENSOR!) people
who work for you who wanted to speak "Ebonics" on the job.

Gosh, how dare you deprive them of their right to free speech!.


----


   >   From aba@dcs.ex.ac.uk Mon Feb 23 21:35:47 1998
   >   
   >   John Young  writes:
   >   > Since Guy's death notice Dimitri's telephone has not answered
   >   > several tries. The number of his sig: 1-718-261-2013, in Brooklyn
   >   > across floater bay from here.
   >   > 
   >   > Was he whacked as well as unplugged? Or is he hiding from the
   >   > peds, plotting anthrax terror posing as Jim Kallstrom?
   >   
   >   OK, Guy, could you fill us in on what exactly you did to get PSInet to
   >   pull Dimitri's plug?

Exactly what I said: I submitted traffic analysis reports ("the big picture")
regarding Vulis' stalking activity via PSINet to their legal people.

I have previously posted to this list a dejanews URL for an early
traffic analysis report on him that I posted to Usenet.

It was like that, only more complete and specifically oriented towards
getting him spanked.

   >   Did it involve calls to law enforcement?

No.

He used an anonymous remailer for the death threat.

His personal stalking of me didn't get far before I blew him off PSINet.

I'm sure he's learned his lesson. ;-)

He's still here, but sulking silently. He's run out of dirty tricks.

   >   Is it likely that your claims would have been relayed by PSI to law
   >   enforcement?

Oh, I _wish_ I had that kind of influence.

Of course, in the Cryptography Manifesto polemic, I have said not-nice
things about law enforcement, as part of complaining about Key Recovery
and the general Orwellian state of affairs.

Guy's CM: Louis Freeh is a Scary Man with the morals of a styrofoam cup.

On the other hand, I do believe most FBI personnel are good people
who perform an invaluable service for all of us.

Guy's CM: This posting isn't about the many good FBI and other law enforcement people.

Gee, could I do a better job of offending both "sides"? ;-)


   >   If you have taken this far enough to get Dimitri into legal trouble,
   >   and your claims are untrue, or exaggerated, I think you owe it to
   >   Dimitri to try to undo some of this stuff fast!

Hell.

Freeze.

Over.

   >   What did you tell PSInet?

I documented his stalking behavior via PSINet, documented that he
had begun stalking me via PSINet, and stated that if they didn't
terminate him and he continued stalking me, I would sue them.

And that the traffic analysis report they were holding was
what a jury would use to decide PSINet was liable for their
continued (after _years_ of people's complaints) inaction.
---guy

    With Vulis, the best defense is a good offense.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 08:43:41 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <95792e88678c7034939f0d6dcc5a10ed@anon.efga.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Michael Elder wrote:
> 
> trei@ziplink.net wrote:
> 
> >>Applied Cryptography: Protocols, Algorithms, and Source Code in C,
> >Second Edition, by Bruce Schneier. Copyright  1995, John Wiley & Sons,
> >Inc. All rights reserved.
> >For those wondering: Applied Cryptography includes the source code
> >appendix. I have not checked if it has the 5th printing corrections.
> 
> Just a little note of interest, AC is currently in its sixth printing. I
> just got it last week.
> 
> -E.

I noticed the sixth printing in Barnes and Noble 2 weeks ago. I didn't 
have too long to peruse thru it... Are there any big error corrections/
other reasons to pay any close attention to the new printing?
-Anon





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 08:58:46 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Pentagon Papers
Message-ID: <199802241658.LAA25785@panix2.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


   >   From William "Grumpy-pie" Geiger III Tue Feb 24 11:46:52 1998
   >   
   >   >Didn't the Pentagon Papers make it out?
   >   
   >   What did it change? NOTHING

My vague understanding of the matter is that
it was an important US Supreme Court case
involving free speech and prior restraint
thereof.

---guy




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Elder 
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 09:45:12 -0800 (PST)
To: Anonymous 
Subject: Re:
In-Reply-To: <95792e88678c7034939f0d6dcc5a10ed@anon.efga.org>
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980224123918.006ad548@descartes.coker.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 11:48 AM 2/24/98 -0500, Anonymous wrote:

>
>I noticed the sixth printing in Barnes and Noble 2 weeks ago. I didn't 
>have too long to peruse thru it... Are there any big error corrections/
>other reasons to pay any close attention to the new printing?
>-Anon

I just got it as of Sunday. I had to special order it because none of the
book stores I went to had it. Not even B & N. So far I haven't had much of
a chance to look through it.

-E.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Alexandre Maret 
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 05:52:11 -0800 (PST)
To: Igor Chudov 
Subject: Re: return.C -- performance tracking tool (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199802240424.WAA21282@manifold.algebra.com>
Message-ID: <34F2CF5D.8276D7FB@infomaniak.ch>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Igor Chudov @ home wrote:
> 
> I have been using this program for a while and decided to share it
> with the other readers. It is written in C++.

this is not a financial mailing list.
and this code is not C++... it just needs a C++ compiler to
compile. real C++ code doesn't use fprintf, scanf, nor strcmp...

$0.02

  alx





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 12:16:46 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Cypherpunk Policeman?
Message-ID: <199802242015.PAA16794@panix2.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


   >   From aba@dcs.ex.ac.uk Tue Feb 24 14:56:22 1998
   >   
   >   Guy  writes:
   >   
   >   > Has 'cypherpunks@cyberpass.net' replaced 'cypherpunks@toad.com'?
   >   
   >   Er, yes, some time ago now.  cypherpunks@toad.com is no longer, and
   >   that mail to it gets through is just that toad.com feeds what it gets
   >   back to cyberpass.net.  The others replacements are algebra.com, and
   >   ssz.com.

Well, toad.com should stop accepting subscription requests.

   >   You said elsewhere in your expose your claim that Dimitri forged posts
   >   as from you that he used a remailer.  So how can you have traffic
   >   analysis showing that it was him, and secondly how do you know it even
   >   was him.

Because he posted under his own name ~"Chris Lewis should die", etc, and it
matches up with the death threat. He is massively on record in his own
name for stalking Chris Lewis, and contacting Chris Lewis at the same
address.

It was good enough for legal counsel.

---guy

   Plus the easily documented job-stalking of various people.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: sunder 
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 12:55:03 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: [Q: Information on PhD Cryptography Classes]
Message-ID: <34F332B8.C15DAD56@brainlink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

I got this request sent to me directly.  If you have info for this person
please reply directly to: balakrik@goldey.gbc.edu.

To: SUNDER@brainlink.com
Subject: Information on Cryptography
From: Karthik Balakrishnan 
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 11:45:26 -0500

To introduce myself, I am Karthik Balakrishnan, a senior majoring in
 Computer Information Systems. I should be graduating at the end of th
 Fall semester.
 I am planning to pursue my Master's in Cryptography, probably try for
 PhD program.
 I would really appretiate your help in guiding me through this proces
 by giving me some advice on this, as to which schools offer a PhD in
 this field, the schools that you recommend, and how to go about this
 process.
 
 My e-mail address is : balakrik@goldey,gbc.edu
 Thank you very much.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 13:29:28 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Cypherpunk Policeman?
Message-ID: <199802242129.QAA24166@panix2.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


   >   From jya@pipeline.com Tue Feb 24 16:06:28 1998
   >   
   >   Guy,
   >   
   >   Without defending Dimitri's actions I'd like to check that
   >   he's not suffered a Jim Bell snatch, perhaps unrelated
   >   to your complaint.

PSINet snatcheroo?

That's getting tough on complaints. ;-)

I've only submitted a complaint to PSINet so far.

Haven't gotten around to Altopia.

I do actually work for a living, despite Vulis' claims.

He posted from 'cj3@alt.net' _after_ being terminated from PSINet.

   >   He's not answered his phone since
   >   you announced the unplug, nor answered e-mail (to dm.com,
   >   which is no longer active).
   >   
   >   Do you have any info on who I could contact for leads?
   >   Or can you refer this to someone who does? I've only got 
   >   the phone number listed in his sig.

Whois gives his number as:

   Billing Contact:
      Vulis, Dimitri  (DV1010)  dlv@DM.COM
      718-261-6839

   >   BTW, I'm in Manhattan. Vox: 212-873-8700.

Ain't it great here in NYC, Third Planet From the Sun?

You could always go over and knock on his door.

I hear he posted a picture of himself to the Net in 1992,
and that "he looked dorky, and his wife fat".

Hey, Vulis is probably looking for a real job.

Maybe he's finally found one.

I can hear him saying:

   "Would you like fries with that?"

---guy




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 16:00:23 -0800 (PST)
To: whgiii@invweb.net (William H. Geiger III)
Subject: Re: return.C -- performance tracking tool (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199802241436.JAA14156@users.invweb.net>
Message-ID: <199802242358.RAA29739@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text


William H. Geiger III wrote:
>    at 02:47 PM, Alexandre Maret  said:
> >Igor Chudov @ home wrote:
> >> 
> >> I have been using this program for a while and decided to share it
> >> with the other readers. It is written in C++.
> 
> >this is not a financial mailing list.
> >and this code is not C++... it just needs a C++ compiler to
> >compile. real C++ code doesn't use fprintf, scanf, nor strcmp...

Excuse me, mah friend, it is C++ in its pure form, with classes and all.

> Let's not forget that *real* C++ apps are bloated several time that of
> comparable C apps (god forbid anyone write some tight ASM code).

Not this one. But you have a good point.

	- Igor.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 16:04:26 -0800 (PST)
To: amaret@infomaniak.ch (Alexandre Maret)
Subject: Re: return.C -- performance tracking tool (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <34F2CF5D.8276D7FB@infomaniak.ch>
Message-ID: <199802250002.SAA29824@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text


Alexandre Maret wrote:
> Igor Chudov @ home wrote:
> > I have been using this program for a while and decided to share it
> > with the other readers. It is written in C++.
> 
> this is not a financial mailing list.

This is not a gun mailing list, not a chemical mailing list, not
a flame mailing list, but all of these things are also discussed.

> and this code is not C++... it just needs a C++ compiler to
> compile. real C++ code doesn't use fprintf, scanf, nor strcmp...

It is the purest form of C++. As my grandma used to say, take your eyes
in your hands and take a look.

	- Igor.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: andrew fabbro 
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 20:09:27 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Cryptobook: State of the Art in '98?
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I finally got around to building a cryptobook, as Joel McNamara
described at

	http://www.eskimo.com/~joelm/cryptbk.html

Being cool cypherpunk types, you already know that I'm referring to a
computer that has an encrypted partition, is tricked out with cryptoware,
and has been modified to prevent data leakage as much as possible (e.g.,
the OS swaps on the encrypted drive, the fact that it's a cryptobook is
somewhat concealed, etc.)

Joel's excellent article is two years old.  I'm wondering if anyone
can improve upon it, as there is at least one near-showstopper problem.
(FYI, I'm using Win95 as a platform for various reasons, mostly because
the data I'm encrypting is Win95-based and Joels' guide is Intel-based):

(*) SecureDrive is recommended as a hard drive encryption product.
Unfortunately, it's 16-bit and designed for DOS.  On my laptop, which
(as is typical) only has one hard drive controller, in order to mount
the partition in 16-bit mode, I have to turn off all 32-bit disk access,
which slows everything down a great deal, means loading a 16-bit CD-ROM
driver, etc.  Little things like animated icons also don't work -- yes,
who cares, but it suggests there are probably other side effects.

My winGeek friends don't think there is a way to mount one partition
in 16-bit mode and the other in 32-bit mode.  I'm wondering if anyone
knows of 32-bit program like SecureDrive, preferably one using IDEA,
that would be a worthwhile replacement.  (FYI, another package of the
same generation, SecureDevice, has the same problems).

(*) Anyone care to recommend anything that is not included in Joel's list?
Maybe new or better products since '96?  I'd particularly be interested
in some way of automating some of the manual things Joel proposes --
secure deletions, steganography, etc.  Sorry, I'm a UNIX geek and am
somewhat lost in Windows land...

Thanks all,




--
 Andrew Fabbro [afabbro@umich.edu] www-personal.umich.edu/~afabbro 
 "Solutions are not answers to problems." -- Richard Nixon








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 15:55:51 -0800 (PST)
To: guy@panix.com
Subject: Re: Cypherpunk Policeman?
In-Reply-To: <199802242129.QAA24166@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <199802242348.XAA00716@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Guy writes :
> He posted from 'cj3@alt.net' _after_ being terminated from PSINet.

You sure?  I mean it could as easily as not been someone spoofing him,
what with the various anonymous mails, etc., that you reported.

> Hey, Vulis is probably looking for a real job.
> 
> Maybe he's finally found one.

I hear he already had one: he's a lecturer at a University in new york
(not sure of names of NY universitys), unless your actions lead
indirectly to his contract being terminated.

Adam




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ryan Anderson 
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 05:54:34 -0800 (PST)
To: Peter Trei 
Subject: Re: DDJ Crypto CD has arrived!
In-Reply-To: <34F252DA.652A@ziplink.net>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Mon, 23 Feb 1998, Peter Trei wrote:

> Well, it's finally here.
> 
Yeah, it surprised the hell out of me to get it so  delyaed from the
order, without any explanation or apology in the packaging... kinda
wierd...

> I've encountered a few minor bugs in the few minutes I've played with
> it; not all of the buttons work properly, and the color maps go to hell
> when the program's window is not selected.

I've noticed that the text appears to be scanned in.  (and ocred).
Ther'ess numerous minor grammatical errors, such as missing commas, a "d"
instead of the ")", and other misc. stuff in the first chapter of Applied
Cryptography...

That's actually more disappointing than the lack of anHTML version of the
books, in my opinion..

Oh well..  Perhaps we can convince them to correct it?

I do notice that the reader tends to make the left edge of the text very
difficult to pick out from the edge of the window.. Ahh... well, , it
obviously suffered some strange problems in manufacture...

Ryan







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 22:30:56 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Cypherpunk Policeman?
Message-ID: <199802250630.BAA03674@panix2.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


   >   From aba@dcs.ex.ac.uk Tue Feb 24 18:55:45 1998
   >   
   >   Guy writes :
   >   > Hey, Vulis is probably looking for a real job.
   >   >
   >   > Maybe he's finally found one.
   >
   >   I hear he already had one: he's a lecturer at a University in new york
   >   (not sure of names of NY universitys), unless your actions lead
   >   indirectly to his contract being terminated.
 
#  http://math.harvard.edu/~verbit/scs/cranks/from-Shlomo.html
#
#  Q: Who is Dimitri Vulis?
#
#  A: Dimitri is an XSoviet immigrant.
#
#  He harasses people all over the net with the most offensive sorts of messages,
#  and uses dirty tricks to retaliate to the people who do get offended. Among
#  his accomplished feats is a series of articles about cat-eating dogs posted to
#  rec.pets.cats (which caused a wave of complaints and made him lost his CUNY
#  account) ; a series of porno binaries with obscene comments about his
#  opponents posted to math-related newsgroups (he lost another academic account,
#  at fordham.edu, after this scandal);
#  [
#     8/3/97 http://corky.fordham.edu/fclc/faculty.html
#     Dimitri Vulis, Adjunct Instructor in Computer Science. BA, MA, CUNY
#     Dimitri: I haven't been teaching at Fordham for a few years.
#              It's too far and the pay's too low.
#  ]
#  ...and a series of racist articles denigrating all aspects of romanian life
#  and culture which used to haunt the romanian newsgroup for years.


----


   >   From aba@dcs.ex.ac.uk Tue Feb 24 18:55:45 1998
   >   
   >   Guy writes :
   >   > He posted from 'cj3@alt.net' _after_ being terminated from PSINet.
   >   
   >   You sure?  I mean it could as easily as not been someone spoofing him,
   >   what with the various anonymous mails, etc., that you reported.

It is a blatant obviousity.

Traffic analysis simply means convincing one or more people
that it's the same person...
---guy

   Convinced?


#  Subject:      (none)
#  From:         Mix 
#  Date:         1998/02/12
#  Newsgroups:   list.cypherpunks
#  
#  Timothy Mayhem will fuck anything that moves, 
#  but he'd rather be fucking his own mother's dead 
#  body.
#  
#                <<<<
#               o(0-0)o
#            -ooO-(_) Ooo-- Timothy Mayhem
#  
#  Subject:      Archie Plutonium's contributions to science
#  From:         simvlad@bwalk.dm.com (AI Simulation Daemon)
#  Date:         1996/11/28
#  Newsgroups:   alt.sci.physics.plutonium,soc.culture.scientists,alt.flame
#   
#  May the force of 231Pu be with you. Archie Plutonium proves a way to list all
#  solutions to Diophantine equations!
#   
#             <<<<
#            o(0-0)o
#         -ooO-(_) Ooo-- Archie Plutonium



#  Subject:      [ADMINISTRATIVIUM] Firewalls
#  From:         nobody@replay.com (Anonymous)
#  Date:         1998/01/13
#  Newsgroups:   list.cypherpunks
#  
#  Timmy C. Mayonnaise's reheated, refurbished, and regurgitated 
#  cud is completely inappropriate for the mailing lists into which 
#  it is cross-ruminated.
#  
#        ,,,
#   -ooO(o o)Ooo- Timmy C. Mayonnaise
#        (_)
#  
#  Subject:      Ludwig Plutonium's latest contributions to number theory
#  From:         simvlad@bwalk.dm.com (AI Simulation Daemon)
#  Date:         1997/02/02
#  Newsgroups:   alt.sci.physics.plutonium,talk.rumors,misc.invest.options
#   
#  Praise the Lord! Ludwig Plutonium proved that some non-trivial
#  zeroes of the zeta function have real part not equal to 1/2.
#   
#              ,,,
#         -ooO(o o)Ooo- Ludwig Plutonium
#              (_)



#  Subject:      (none)
#  From:         Anonymous 
#  Date:         1997/12/19
#  Newsgroups:   list.cypherpunks
#  
#  Timmy C. May will fuck anything that moves, 
#  but he'd rather be fucking his own mother's 
#  dead body.
#  
#       /'''
#       c-OO Timmy C. May
#          \
#         -
#  
#  Subject:      Ludwig Plutonium, our greatest scientist
#  From:         simvlad@bwalk.dm.com (AI Simulation Daemon)
#  Date:         1997/02/20
#  Newsgroups:   alt.sci.physics.plutonium,soc.culture.scientists,sci.physics.accelerators
#   
#  Reposted without permission from clari.plutonium. Ludwig Plutonium
#  demonstrates that (a+b)^n=a^n+b^n for some a, b, and n!
#   
#            /'''
#            c-OO Ludwig Plutonium
#               \
#              -



#  Subject:      Re: Zero-knowledge commit
#  From:         nobody@replay.com (Anonymous)
#  Date:         1998/02/01
#  Newsgroups:   list.cypherpunks
#  
#  
#  Timmy C[unt] May carries a turd in his wallet for identification purposes.
#  
#                    __|     \ /     |__
#        _ o   ___\o    \o    |    o/    o/___  o _  Timmy C[unt] May
#         /\  /)  |     ( \  /o\  / )     |  (\  /\
#     ___|_\______                          _____/_|__
#  
#  
#  Subject:      Expressing America's appreciation for Archimedes Uranium
#  From:         simvlad@bwalk.dm.com (AI Simulation Daemon)
#  Date:         1996/11/01
#  Newsgroups:   alt.sci.physics.plutonium,alt.usenet.kooks,sci.bio.misc
#   
#  We live in interesting times. Archimedes Uranium proved beyond all
#  doubt that 6 and 28 are the sums of their proper divisors respectively!
#   
#                   __|     \ /     |__
#       _ o   ___\o    \o    |    o/    o/___  o _
#        /\  /)  |     ( \  /o\  / )     |  (\  /\
#    ___|_\______                          _____/_|__



#  Subject:      Secure checksums
#  From:         nobody@replay.com (Anonymous)
#  Date:         1998/01/31
#  Newsgroups:   list.cypherpunks
#  
#  Timmy May sits at his terminal dressed in five-inch 
#  stiletto heels, fishnet stockings, a gold-lame 
#  mini-skirt, a purple halter with girdle underneath to 
#  keep in his flabby gut, a Fredericks of Hollywood 
#  padded bra also underneath the halter, a cheap Naomi 
#  Sims pink afro wig, waiting to yank his crank whenever 
#  a black man responds to one of his inane rants.
#  
#          o   \ o /  _ o         __|    \ /     |__        o _  \ o /   o
#         /|\    |     /\   ___\o   \o    |    o/    o/__   /\     |    /|\ Timmy May
#         / \   / \   | \  /)  |    ( \  /o\  / )    |  (\  / |   / \   / \
#  
#  
#  Subject:      Archimedes Transplutonium, Dartmouth's most respected authority on number theory
#  From:         simvlad@bwalk.dm.com (AI Simulation Daemon)
#  Date:         1996/12/20
#  Newsgroups:   alt.sci.physics.plutonium,misc.test,sci.physics.accelerators
#   
#  Praise the Lord! Archimedes Transplutonium proved beyond all
#  doubt the non-existence of infinitely many primes.
#   
#      o   \ o /  _ o         __|    \ /     |__        o _  \ o /   o
#     /|\    |     /\   ___\o   \o    |    o/    o/__   /\     |    /|\ Archimedes Transplutonium
#     / \   / \   | \  /)  |    ( \  /o\  / )    |  (\  / |   / \   / \



#  Subject:      (none)
#  From:         Anonymous 
#  Date:         1998/01/26
#  Newsgroups:   list.cypherpunks
#  
#  Timothy May prefers to have sex with little kids 
#  because his own penis is like that of a 
#  three-year-old.
#  
#              /\**/\
#             ( o_o  )_) Timothy May
#             ,(u  u  ,),
#            {}{}{}{}{}{}
#   
#  Subject:      Ludwig Pohlmann, Internet's biggest genius
#  From:         simvlad@bwalk.dm.com (AI Simulation Daemon)
#  Date:         1997/02/05
#  Newsgroups:   alt.sci.physics.plutonium,sci.techniques.testing.misc,misc.test
#   
#  May the force of 231Pu be with you. Ludwig Pohlmann proved beyond
#  reasonable doubt the existence of even numbers cannot be represented as a
#  sum of two primes.
#   
#              /\**/\
#             ( o_o  )_) Ludwig Pohlmann
#             ,(u  u  ,),
#            {}{}{}{}{}{}



#  Subject:      (none)
#  From:         Mix 
#  Date:         1998/01/27
#  Newsgroups:   list.cypherpunks
#  
#  The only `culture' Timothy `C' Maypole possesses is that 
#  cultivated from his foreskin scrapings.
#  
#          ,/         \,
#         ((__,-,,,-,__)), Timothy `C' Maypole
#          `--)~   ~(--`
#         .-'(       )`-,
#         `~~`d\   /b`~~`
#             |     |
#             (6___6)
#              `---`
#  
#  Subject:      Re: renaming soc.culture.russian.moderated => soc.culture.smegma.moderated
#  From:         simvlad@bwalk.dm.com (AI Simulation Daemon)
#  Date:         1996/02/25
#  Newsgroups:   news.groups,soc.culture.russian,soc.culture.soviet,soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.romanian,soc\
#  .culture.african.american,ok.general
#   
#  The only "culture" Pyotr Vorobiev and his buddies possess is the bacterial one,
#  cultivated from their foreskin scrapings.
#   
#  This posting was generated by an artificial intelligence program.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 22:35:09 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re:  Group to Attack Clinton on Crypto
Message-ID: <199802250635.BAA03768@panix2.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


   >   From cypherpunks-errors@toad.com Tue Feb 24 21:27:15 1998
   >   To: ukcrypto@maillist.ox.ac.uk
   >   Subject: Group to Attack Clinton on Crypto
   >   
   >   >From http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,19388,00.html
   >   
   >     Group to Attack Clinton on Crypto
   >     By Courtney Macavinta
   >     Staff Writer, CNET NEWS.COM
   >     February 23, 1998, 2:40 p.m. PT 
   >   
   >     A bipartisan group of politicos, high-tech companies,
   >     and privacy advocates will announce a broad coalition
   >     next week to overturn the White House's current
   >     encryption policy through a million-dollar media blitz
   >     and lobbying campaign, CNET's NEWS.COM has
   >     learned.


#     # #######    #      ###
 #   #  #         # #     ###
  # #   #        #   #    ###
   #    #####   #     #    #
   #    #       #######
   #    #       #     #   ###
   #    ####### #     #   ###

---guy

   Poor grumpy William H. Geiger III, odd-man-out.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 22:42:52 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Killing the Unabomber
Message-ID: <199802250642.BAA03918@panix2.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


   >   From wendigo@ne-wendigo.jabberwock.org Tue Feb 24 23:43:50 1998
   >   
   >   An entity claiming to be Information Security wrote:
   >   : 
   >   : Didn't the government finally back down on their
   >   : attempt to legally kill the Unabomber?
   >   
   >   This point strikes me as pretty funny.  Kinda like a nurse rooting
   >   for Charles Starkweather.
   >   
   >   Mark

Or trying to be consistent.

Raygun: abortion is killing, but pro-death penalty.

If killing is wrong, killing again is wrong.

Also, there is the part about his brother turning
him in to get help (UB tried to get mental help,
but couldn't get it), and didn't turn him in
to get killed.

Next time, the killer might not be caught because
the person who recognized (yea traffic analysis)
his talktalk might not want them killed as a result.

i.e. in the long run it will save lives.
---guy

   No: "Live and Let Die".




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 18:12:10 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Group to Attack Clinton on Crypto
Message-ID: <199802250211.DAA21296@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 18:49:25 +0000 (GMT)
From: "Dr I. D. Goodyer" 
To: ukcrypto@maillist.ox.ac.uk
Subject: Group to Attack Clinton on Crypto

>From http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,19388,00.html
I hope that this isn't too American for us the majority on this list.  I
thought that it was relevant.
See original webpage for hyperlinks.

	Ian


  Group to Attack Clinton on Crypto
  By Courtney Macavinta
  Staff Writer, CNET NEWS.COM
  February 23, 1998, 2:40 p.m. PT 

  A bipartisan group of politicos, high-tech companies,
  and privacy advocates will announce a broad coalition
  next week to overturn the White House's current
  encryption policy through a million-dollar media blitz
  and lobbying campaign, CNET's NEWS.COM has
  learned.

  Encryption secures digital communications, rendering
  it unreadable if intercepted. The technology is the
  center of a U.S. debate with federal law enforcement
  officials asking Congress for access to the "keys" that
  unlock encrypted data on one side, and consumer
  groups and industry representatives arguing that such
  provisions make encryption products useless and
  constitute an invasion of privacy.

  The formation of the coalition--Americans for
  Computer Privacy--signals a shift in the diligent, but
  Beltway-confined, fight against the White House's
  crypto stance. The players in the coalition will
  attempt to force encryption policy on the mainstream
  radar by convincing Americans that the government
  has plans to read their private digital discourse.

  "This will be an effort with very major financial
  backing, and this effort will be joined by a
  breathtaking coalition of interests," Jack Quinn, the
  coalition's legal adviser, told CNET's NEWS.COM
  today. Quinn is a senior partner with Arnold &
  Porter in Washington and is a former counsel to
  President Clinton. 

  "I think people will understand that the FBI director's
  [Louis Freeh] proposal for domestic encryption
  controls is really like asking them to make a duplicate
  of their front door key and leave it at the post office
  in case he wants to get inside...I don't think it will be
  hard to explain," he added.

  The coalition includes the Business Software Alliance,
  which will be just one of the financial backers, the
  trade group confirmed today. The hired guns to head
  up the coalition's strategy and media campaign also
  include Ed Gillespie, president of Policy Impact
  Communications and the strategist behind the
  Republican's sweeping 1994 legislative package
  known as the Contract with America; and the firm of
  Goddard-Claussen, which is best known for creating
  the famous "Harry and Louise" commercials that
  helped defeat the president's health care reform
  initiative the same year.

  In addition, Mindshare Internet Campaigns will be in
  charge of the online strategy and Web site for the
  coalition, with the Dittus Group in charge of public
  relations. Recruiting pamphlets with scant details
  about the coalition's membership, but with clearly
  laid out goals, already were circulated at the
  Computers, Freedom, and Privacy conference in
  Austin, Texas, last week.

  These forces and other yet-to-be named members of
  the coalition will try in about 50 calendar days
  remaining in Congress's session to derail legislation
  already on the table that they say will prevent private
  online communication.

  The group will fight an FBI-backed plan that would
  require all federally funded computers to store
  encryption keys with a government-approved party,
  allowing law enforcement to unscramble documents
  without users' knowledge or even a court order in
  some cases.

  "Even if you don't have a PC at your home or office,
  still there is information about you that is
  computerized; maybe it's your medical or financial
  records. We want to make sure that the technology
  that can keep that information private stays that way,"
  said Tom McMahon, a spokesman for the coalition,
  which officially will launch next Wednesday.

  In addition, the Americans for Computer Privacy will
  ramp up an ongoing battle to overturn Clinton
  administration regulations prohibiting the export of
  strong encryption products unless the codes are made
  available to law enforcement agencies. A bill know as
  the SAFE Act was the vehicle for this export relief,
  but at least one version of the bill altered by the
  House Intelligence Committee would grant law
  enforcement access to encrypted protected
  communication in the United States. (See related
  story)

  "BSA is involved in this broader coalition of users,
  industry, and privacy groups. We are coming
  together to push for a policy that is based on a
  voluntary, market-based system that is based on
  consumer demand vs. the government's demand to
  access your communication in a way that is
  unprecedented and violates privacy," said Kim
  Willard, a spokeswoman for the BSA.

  The media campaign is expected to cost more than $1
  million and will continue over the next eight months.
  The goal is to stimulate grassroots action against the
  bills that add more controls on cryptography. At the
  same time, the coalition's political heavyweights will
  be working with Congress members to secure a
  victory.

  "They clearly want to get this out to broader public
  audiences and move outside the Beltway to focus on
  what the public has at stake in this the debate," said
  Richard Claussen, whose firm will work on the TV
  campaign. "The indication is that we want to move
  pretty aggressively on this."






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 02:40:48 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re:  ascii art is not a digital signature (Re: Cypherpunk Policeman?)
Message-ID: <199802251040.FAA09365@panix2.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


   >   From aba@dcs.ex.ac.uk Wed Feb 25 04:19:12 1998
   >   
   >   Guy  writes:
   >   >    >   From aba@dcs.ex.ac.uk Tue Feb 24 18:55:45 1998
   >   >    >
   >   >    >   You sure?  I mean it could as easily as not been someone spoofing him,
   >   >    >   what with the various anonymous mails, etc., that you reported.
   >   > 
   >   > It is a blatant obviousity.
   >   > 
   >   > [series of ascii art posts posted via different remailer addresses,
   >   > and bwalk.dm.com email addresses]
   >   
   >   It is not at all obvious.  You seem to be under the illusion that an
   >   ascii art image is some kind of digital signature.

You seem to think people couldn't share a digital signature.

   >   > Traffic analysis simply means convincing one or more people
   >   > that it's the same person...
   >   
   >   Doesn't prove anything.

Sure it does, I've proven that with PSI.

Guess what happens if those people are a jury?

   >   Here to make the point, I'll use one of your magic digital signature
   >   ascii arts which somehow proves incontrovertably that the post was
   >   made by Dimitri.  

I can see that one flew over your head, and pooped on you.
---guy




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Julian Assange 
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 12:20:41 -0800 (PST)
To: "William H. Geiger III" 
Subject: Re: Fight ECHELON while the topic is hot!
In-Reply-To: <199802241648.LAA15368@users.invweb.net>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


"William H. Geiger III"  writes:

> No not at all I just don't have any pie-in-the-sky daydreams that it will
> mean squat! I have better things to do with my time than dealing with a

Please, please go do better things.

Cheers,
Julian.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 01:19:14 -0800 (PST)
To: guy@panix.com
Subject: ascii art is not a digital signature (Re: Cypherpunk Policeman?)
In-Reply-To: <199802250630.BAA03674@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <199802250914.JAA01021@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Guy  writes:
>    >   From aba@dcs.ex.ac.uk Tue Feb 24 18:55:45 1998
>    >
>    >   You sure?  I mean it could as easily as not been someone spoofing him,
>    >   what with the various anonymous mails, etc., that you reported.
> 
> It is a blatant obviousity.
> 
> [series of ascii art posts posted via different remailer addresses,
> and bwalk.dm.com email addresses]

It is not at all obvious.  You seem to be under the illusion that an
ascii art image is some kind of digital signature.

> Traffic analysis simply means convincing one or more people
> that it's the same person...

Doesn't prove anything.

Here to make the point, I'll use one of your magic digital signature
ascii arts which somehow proves incontrovertably that the post was
made by Dimitri.  

Am I Dimitri too now?

Adam
--
                <<<<
               o(0-0)o
            -ooO-(_) Ooo-- Guy Polis




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 08:26:08 -0800 (PST)
To: Information Security 
Subject: Re:  Group to Attack Clinton on Crypto
In-Reply-To: <199802250635.BAA03768@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hold the applause. I wrote about this over two weeks ago:
  http://cgi.pathfinder.com/netly/editorial/0,1012,1722,00.html

-Declan

At 01:35 -0500 2/25/98, Information Security wrote:
>   >     Group to Attack Clinton on Crypto
>   >     By Courtney Macavinta
>   >     Staff Writer, CNET NEWS.COM
>   >     February 23, 1998, 2:40 p.m. PT
>   >
>   >     A bipartisan group of politicos, high-tech companies,
>   >     and privacy advocates will announce a broad coalition
>   >     next week to overturn the White House's current
>   >     encryption policy through a million-dollar media blitz
>   >     and lobbying campaign, CNET's NEWS.COM has
>   >     learned.
>
>
>#     # #######    #      ###
> #   #  #         # #     ###
>  # #   #        #   #    ###
>   #    #####   #     #    #
>   #    #       #######
>   #    #       #     #   ###
>   #    ####### #     #   ###
>
>---guy
>
>   Poor grumpy William H. Geiger III, odd-man-out.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Trei, Peter" 
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 08:26:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <6B5344C210C7D011835C0000F8012766010035DD@exna01.securitydynamics.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 23:38:58 -0600
From: David McNett 
To: rc5@lists.distributed.net
Subject: [RC5] [ADMIN] The secret message is...
Sender: owner-rc5@llamas.net
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rc5@llamas.net
Status: RO


--UlVJffcvxoiEqYs2
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Once again I have the great privilege of coming to you with good news.

It is with great pleasure (and a sigh of relief) that I can now inform
you
that the DES-II-1 challenge has been successfully met by
distributed.net.

The winning key to the challenge was detected and submitted to RSA Labs
at 02:26 GMT on Monday, 23-Feb-1998.

The correct key, 76 9E 8C D9 F2 2F 5D EA, revealed the words which we've
been anticipating these past 39 days:

"The secret message is: Many hands make light work."

(If you ask me, this is a nice nod in our direction.  Thanks, RSA Labs!)

In addition to proving that 56-bit DES is no longer sufficient for
protecting
valuable information, we've now also proved that blind luck need not be
a
factor in brute-force decryption attacks.  The original DES Challenge
and
the more recent RC5-56 wins were fortunate and did not have to sweep a
significant portion of the keyspace.  This time around, however, we
managed to
complete almost 90% of the keyspace and have now proven that even when
the 
law of averages chooses to catch up to us and forces us to pay our dues,
we are
still an unstoppable force.  Our collective victory is all the more
impressive
when you consider what we had to accomplish to achieve it.

We tested sixty-three quadrillion keys.  That number is simply
staggering.

Assuming *0* growth between now and July, we'll be able to sweep the
entire
DES-II-2 keyspace in just under 29 days.  That's assuming that we do not
recruit another person, don't add any more machines, and are even more
unlucky
next time.  I daresay at least one of those assumptions is probably
false.

I'd invite all of you to join us in IRC (efnet, #distributed) for a
rowdy
victory party.  Take a breather.  Sit back and watch your clients
automatically roll over to RC5-64.

The only other issue at hand is *who* found the key.  The person who
found the
winning key has politely asked to remain anonymous.  Rest assured, I've
been
in contact with them and they know they've won.  They will be receiving
their
full share of the prize and are quite excited about the victory.  All
I'd ask
is that we all respect this person's wishes and not bother the list with
public speculation as to their identity.  I'm sure we all appreciate
just
how important privacy and anonymity can be.

Here are some numbers to chew on while the stats are down:

Project statistics:
        Start of contest:                       January 13, 1998 at
09:00 PST
        Start of distributed.net effort:        January 13, 1998 at
09:08 PST
        End of Contest:                         February 23, 1998 at
02:26 PST

        Size of keyspace:                       72,057,594,037,927,936
        Approximate keys tested:                63,686,000,000,000,000

        Number of 2^30 (average) keyblocks:                 67,108,864
        Number of keys in average keyblock:              1,073,741,824
        Peak blocks per day:                                 5,540,982
        Peak keys per second:                           34,430,460,000

The unencrypted message: Many hands make light work

Computing equivalents:

   Distributed.net is equivalent in processing power to:

           11,264       DEC Alpha 21064 533s
           15,316       Sun Ultra I 167s
           22,393       Intel Pentium II 333s
           68,859       Macintosh PowerPC 604e/200s.
           41,712       Intel Pentium 166s
          399,374       Intel 486DX2/66s
        7,446,033       Intel 386SX/20s

(based solely on DES client performance)

Prospective:

If Keys were dollars, we could pay off the U.S. National Debt in 6.25
minutes

If Keys were pennies, we could buy 536249385 Mazda Miatas each day.

If Keys were pennies, we could buy 256728249 Jeep Cherokees each day!

If you printed a single page to represent each key block as it was
checked
and placed those pages in a stack, it would grow 12.83 inches taller
every
minute.

If blocks were liters of Dr. Pepper, we could produce 6381493 six-packs
each day

If Key Blocks were cheeseburgers, fries, and a large Dr. Pepper, we
could
feed the entire city of Toronto, Ontario lunch each day.

(on a personal note, It sure feels nice to be doing RC5 blocks again.  I
feel
like I've just slipped on an old, comfortable pair of loafers that were
lost in
the attic for two months)

--

________________________________________________________________________
|David McNett      |To ensure privacy and data integrity this message
has|
|nugget@slacker.com|been encrypted using dual rounds of ROT-13
encryption|
|Birmingham, AL USA|Please encrypt all important correspondence with
PGP!|

--UlVJffcvxoiEqYs2
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.2

iQCVAwUBNPOucPqEj3HEBeehAQEKBgQAizpn1SrmYhz/Ycx1aNUxewi9r7X8gRTr
ifuwC+4qAJXWcDOesdOx1V1IzQ6eSHLFuiaDyLsNmUwIoUpwJm0CTlmwtYIDDc4R
mGrO7t0FUne+l+YhFyYJTarnMjmCpySJjEf9I/GNrWfGTnFAWAaaGQp+f1ZyBTkJ
1bDtm3rzbjk=
=iv/8
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--UlVJffcvxoiEqYs2--

--
To unsubscribe, send 'unsubscribe rc5' to
majordomo@lists.distributed.net
rc5-digest subscribers replace rc5 with rc5-digest






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:29:11 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: So what *does* happen to a city without power for 6 days
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980225132942.007d21a0@otc.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




A part of Aukland is finding out.


http://www.tampabayonline.net/news/news101l.htm


------------------------------------------------------------
      David Honig                   Orbit Technology
     honig@otc.net                  Intaanetto Jigyoubu

   If you plan to enter text which our system might consider to be obscene, 
   check here to certify that you are old enough to hear the resulting
output. 
		http://www.bell-labs.com/project/tts/voices.html






	















From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC 
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 17:35:26 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Prologue  3
Message-ID: <009C25A4.C46240A0.4@west.cscwc.pima.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


~       SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS / PROLOGUE 3/0
	(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)

The Most Dangerous Man In Lost Wagess:
  They had followed him from the CypherPunks physical meeting 
to the outskirts of Las Vegas, before losing him. Two days of
frantic searching by a variety of law enforcement agencies 
led to the Plaza Hotel and Casino, where he was playing the
penny slot machine and associating with a variety of local
riff(c)raff and no(c)accounts.
  An in(c)depth consultation with the Plaza head of security
revealed that they had been keeping a close eye on the
subject for the last two days.
  
  "He doesn't cause any real trouble, or anything," the
head honcho said, shrugging, "but everything about him
seems just a little strange, if you know what I mean."
  This comment seemed designed to elicit some sort of
response from the poker(c)faced men questioning him, but
they failed to respond, merely waiting for him to 
continue.
  "He buys ten dollars worth of pennies," and tips
the change lady a dollar. "He plays for hours on
end, also tipping the waitresses a dollar every
time they bring him a free beer. Hell, he even tips
the cleaning people when they clean his ashtray."
  The honcho shook his head, as if this type of
behavior from someone spending most of their time
playing the penny slots was puzzling and also
disconcerting.
  "Sleeps in his car, with his dog. Only leaves the
slot machines to feed, water, and run his dog around
our parking lot. It's kind of unnatural, the way he
seems to dote on that animal."ťś the security honcho
winked knowingly.

  "Has he met with anyone who doesn't usually 
frequent your casino?" one of the men asked,
impatiently, tired of hearing odd details of the
man's lifestyle which seemed intriguing to the
denziens of normality that they were constantly
having to interview in regard to the subject's
movement and activity.

  "He ran into some legal(c)eagle named Larry Joe,"
the honcho said, noting the first sign of interest
shown by his interrogators. "My second(c)shift security
chief says he's a middle(c)weight poker player, taking
part in a tournament at the Rio..." adding with a
knowing tone, "but the mouthpiece is hanging with
one of the heavy hitters on the local poker scene."

  "Larry Joe Dowling, an Austin attorney." one of
the interrogators said to the others. "He usuallyÜj
We'd better shift our surveillance team into
high gear."
  The man rose to leave, telling the others, "Dig
up all you can here, file a report, and get some
sleep. You're going to need it."


Boogers? We don't need no stinking boogers!:
  The agent pulled out his hanky and wiped the disgusting
mess off of his jacket sleeve.
  "I can't believe that they pulled us off of the
Tim May detail to check out this fucking loser."
  "Shit!" he screamed, as he brushed his arm against
the steering column and picked up another piece of
disgusting slime on his jacket sleeve.

  "I've shaken down this guy's personals before." the
man's partner said, with a grin. "That's why I gave
you the driver's side of the vehicle to check out."
  "He feeds his nose(c)candy to his dog, and he always
leaves her a little desert on the steering wheel
for her to chow down on after he brings her back
from her walk." He laughed as he saw the bile
rising to his new partner's throat.
  He couldn't help himself(c)(c)he reached over and
plucked a booker off of the horn button and told
his partner, "I'll trade you a green one for a
yellow one..."
  His partner lurched out of the vehicle and
concentrated on tossing his lunch while not messing
up his shiny new shoes.

  The more experienced agent finished snapping photos
of the gathered items and then replaced them carefully
in the same position they had been in before their
intrusion.
  "He usually walks Baby for about ten minutes, to 
give us time to make a complete pass of his vehicle,
so our time is about up." The agent closed and 
locked the doors of the vehicle, motioning his
green(c)faced partner toward their vehicle.


It's A Nuke! No, It's Anthrax! No, It's...AAARRGGGHHHH!!!":
  Justin Case, Special Agent in Charge of the current
investigation, was bothered by the fact that the suspect
had seemed to be doing nothing more than wandering around
various sites and casinos in Las Vegas, with no apparent
pattern or plan to his movement and actions. Until he
read the report of the suspect's lingering interest in
the placement of the columns serving as the foundation 
for the Stratosphere Casino, and the layout of the
preliminary work on the new Foley Federal BuildingÜj

  "Soft targets." agent Case said out loud, causing
a considerable amount of disconcertment to his fellow
agent, Bobby Siller.
  "Damn!" Siller swore, "We have reports of him having
met with Leavitt and Harris, but we didn't have any
taps on them, so we don't have any details of what
they are planning."

  "Don't worry about it," Case seemed unconcerned, "if
he's scouting soft targets, then he's not planning any
sudden moves."
  "Patience comes to those who wait." Justin Case said,
softly, quoting the Author, and making a mental note to
have agent Siller shake the Anthrax Twins down a few
days after the suspect departed Vegas.

  "Hold it!" agent Siller shouted, motioning for his
superior to remain silent, as Siller adjusted his
earpiece to more clearly hear the live report he was
receiving from his agents at the Riviera gun show.
  "The suspect went into the gun show empty handed,
and left with several copies of 'Gun List' and then
returned to his vehicle. He took his dog for a walk
and our agents discovered a 'Dalian' watch wrapped
in tear(c)outs from the firearms paper, dealing with
Romanian AK rifles and Bulgarian SLR(c)95's. The 
'Dalian' watch is some type of Polish/Chinese make,
or something."

  Justin Case rolled his eyes, but remained silent.
The suspect was yanking the chains of the agents who
were shaking down his personals, and it looked like
Siller's men didn't have the experience to know when
they were being toyed with.
  The agent that Case had pulled off of the Tim May
detail would be wise to the suspect's shenanigans,
but it was unlikely he would get in the way of
Siller's men making fools of themselves.

  "He's returning to the casino, using the copies
of 'Gun List' to hide whatever it is he's carrying."
agent Siller said, with great excitement.
  "I think we ought to take him in the parking 
garage, before he reaches the main building at the
Riviera." Siller anxiously awaited the word from
his superior.
  "Maintain." was Case's nonchalant reply, causing
Siller to have an ill(c)disguised internal shit(c)fit.
If this operation went totally to hell, it would
be Siller's ass on the line, being the Las Vegas
station chief.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC 
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 17:35:48 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Prologue3a
Message-ID: <009C25A4.D40628A0.16@west.cscwc.pima.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


SAHMD 3A
(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)
  "Maintain," Siller told his agents, but couldn't help 
adding, "and disclose."
  This was a vague term meant to signal his men to 
intercept the suspect and do a bump(c)and(c)run on him
to sniff out what it was he was hiding(c)(c)without alerting
Siller's superior that his orders were being countermanded.

  "The Electronic Privacy Papers." agent Case said, to no
one in particular.
  "What?" Siller asked, perplexed.
  "Documents on the Battle for Privacy in the Age of
Surveillance, by Bruce Schneier and David Banisar,
ISBN: 0(c)471(c)12297(c)1."
  Much to agent Siller's consternation, his superior
continued, "That's what your men are going to discover
he is hiding furtively under those copies of the 'Gun
List' magazines when they disobey my orders and risk
blowing their cover."

  "It's the suspect's form of humor." Justin Case
smiled at his subordinate's discomfort.
  "He's laughing at all the spooks from various
agencies, including yours and mine, who are at the
gun show shadowing the Anthrax Twins, the Samsonite
Nuclear Warrior, and various members of the Loose(c)Screw
Gun Nut Club."
  Seeing the confused look on agent Siller's face, he
explained further. "The suspect is laughing because
he believes he is carrying the most dangerous weapon
available at the gun show."

  "And he's probably right..." Case said, with a far(c)
away look in his eyes that sent shivers down agent
Siller's spine.
  Special agent Justin Case took a tattered copy of
a paperback titled, "Paper Prison" out of his inside
jacket pocket, and stared at it(c)(c)lost in a universe
that belonged far in the past, but which seemed to
be intersecting the present in a manner which bode
nothing but ill for those who continued to live in
both.

  "The future is now..." Justin Case said, in a low
monotone voice that seemed to come from a world beyond
the one in which he and agent Siller were so diligently
pursuing the 'Threat of the Day'.

  "He's carrying a book." the voice came crackling
through Siller's earpiece.
  "Never mind." Siller said, adding, "Maintain."

  "Maintain." Siller repeated inwardly, to himself,Üj
crept up his spine and into the lower regions of
his mind as he observed the strange, semi(c)hypnotic
state that his superior had entered into.
  "Maintain."




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC 
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 17:36:32 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Prologue 4
Message-ID: <009C25A4.EE33D1A0.23@west.cscwc.pima.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Prologue 4/0 SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS
(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)

A Nuclear Bullet, With *Everyone's* Name On It:
  [Your Name Here]


Excerpt from an interview with Marilyn Manson on NPR:
MM: A lot of the lies spread by Fundamentalist Christians
   about our tour were believed by people because they 
   read them on the InterNet.
    The InterNet is the CB Radio of the 90's. People perceive
   it as a legitimate news source, which it's not.
    Eventually there will need to be some sort of laws or
   something...


Top Ten Ways To Convince The Sheeple The Revolution Is NOW:
10,9,8,.7,6,5,4,3,2...
1. Put Marilyn Manson's name on the first bullet.


"Give me nuclear freedom, or give me death."
~ Patrick Hussein


The TRUTH About Area 51:
  It's a resort(c)spa for the reptilian Nazis who are shaping
our present and our future, preparing to rule all of mankind
when they emerge from the underground bunkers beneath Los Alamos,
Livermore, Colorado Springs, Muleshoe, Texas, etc., at the end
of the Milleniuum.
  Why can't you buy a straight 2"x4" anymore? The reptilian Nazis
are keeping all of the good stuff for themselves. The reason for
the tight security at Area 51 is not because of secret spy(c)planes
and the like. The reptilian Nazi's don't want us to know that
they are all driving '56 Chevy's. (Their original plan was to
have earthlings all driving Edsels, but they tried to implement
the plan before their mind(c)control experiments had proven 
successful.)


Who It Is OK To Put A Fucking Bullet Through Their Head:

Officially Recognized Bad Guys(c)(c)For the Sheeple, this is Saddam
  Hussein, Timothy McVeigh, Dennis Rodman, paramilitarists, 
  grandmothers who plug other people's parking meters, Branch
  Davidians (but it's a shame about the children), and The 
  Subject Of A Ten(c)Second Sound(c)Byte To Be Named Later.
  For Republicans, this is welfare cheats, the homeless, tax
  cheats making less than $100,000 per year, liberals, Ralph
  Nadar, CypherPunks, Alt2600 avocados, the 4 Horsemen, and
  anyone who looks like me.
  For the Democrats, this is the non(c)avant(c)guarde wealthy,Üj
  liberals consume, Rush Limbaugh, Republican presidents, 
  rednecks, people who drink water straight out of the tap,
  and anyone who looks like me.
  For Kris Kristofferson, this is "People doing something
  dirty, decent folks can frown on..."


"Sunshine is the best disinfectant."
~ Supreme Court Justice Louis D. Brandeis, 1928

"Bullet holes let the sun shine in."
~ Supreme Asshole TruthMonger, 1998


When Existence Is Outlawed, Only Outlaws Will Exist:
  The revolution is now.
  The only question that those who have the balls to
participate in the inevitable chaos which will be needed
to balance the Tao against the current onslaught of
digitally structured reality that is being forced upon
humanity by the new technology being promoted by the
pawns of the reptilian Nazis whose headquarters is deep
within the confines of the AdamAntarctic is: "Whose brain
do I put my first bullet through?"

  For many, the answer will be, "TruthMonger!"
  Nobody likes to hear the truth, and the truth is: We
all deserve to die.
  Not only that, but the extinction of humanity, according
to our current values, epitomizes the crowning glory of
our evolutionary path.

  What places us *above* the other primates and the other
forms of life on our planet? What is it that makes us
special, that deems us worthy of ruling over all other
life forms on the planet Earth?
  It is our ability to control; our ability to master
our environment and the objects and life(c)forms contained
within its bounds. Ultimately, it is our ability to *kill*
whatever stands in the way of the fulfillment of our desires
and our goals.
  For all of our soul(c)searching, spiritual posturing, deep
down inside we all know that we live in a predatorial 
universe. Republicans cry out for bigger guns to defend
our way of life from everyone who fails to salute the flag.
Democrats cry out for the press and political leaders to
invent enemies to justify the liberals crying out for
bigger guns to protect us from the 'bad guys.'
  And it's all bullshit...

  The reason we need to launch wars and destroy our
environment is to keep the price of our refrigerators
and our color TV's reasonable(c)(c)to keep the price of aÜj
dollar high enough that we can feel good about ourselves
for saving a starving child for less than ten cents a day,
while ignoring the fact that an obese Sally Fields could
save more starving children in a week than we possibly 
could in a lifetime, just by donating one of her lunches
to the charity she is promoting.


Think About This, You Stupid Fucking Bastards:
  Why do we need to allow our basic human rights and
freedoms to be compromised?: In order for our hallowed
leaders and our protectors in the law enforcement
community to adequately protect us from the 'bad guys.'
  Why do we need to be protected from the 'bad guys'?:
Because if they win out over the 'good guys', they 
will take away our basic human rights and freedoms.


The Reason TruthMonger Will Die Broke And Alone:
  Because he invested all of his money in ClueServers,
believing that the Sheeple might one day find them
to be of value.

"TV Is Real! (Just go back to sleep, dear.)"





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 09:33:30 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: From Peter Gutmann  Re: So what *does* happen to a city without power
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980226093420.007dd2d0@otc.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I wrote: 
> 
>>A part of Aukland is finding out.
>>
>>http://www.tampabayonline.net/news/news101l.htm

Peter G replies: 
>It's pretty serious, so far it's affected (at various times) a number of 
>banking data centres (the first day the power went out was on the Thursday 
>when everyones pay is supposed to be processed - the data centres themselves 
>have generators, but the sources feeding them information don't), the stock 
>exchange, some (unidentified) central city post office buildings, customs
and 
>immigration, inland revenue, internal affairs, social welfare, the Auckland 
>City Council, the central police station, Aucklands main hospital and
medical 
>school complex (they have generators, but one of them failed, leaving the 
>childrens hospital without power for awhile), the city campus of the 
>university and technical institute (affecting 30,000 students in the
middle of 
>enrolment), several TV and radio stations, and God knows what else (the 
>government departments have tentacles all over the city, so it's not so bad 
>for them).  Although many of these places have generators, there were
various 
>glitches in switching over and one or two breakdowns which have caused 
>problems, and most of the generators can't handle anywhere near the load
being 
>placed on them but were designed to power only essential services.  One 
>comment I've heard is that the power company may not survive the lawsuits 
>which follow this (taking out some suburb is serious enough, but taking out 
>the central business district with its cluster of multinational accounting
and 
>legal firms, banks, government departments, and whatnot is really bad).
> 
>There's fairly detailed coverage of what's going on at 
>http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/power.txt, with a temporary
copy at 
>http://www.kcbbs.gen.nz/users/peterg/power.txt (the Auckland site doesn't
have 
>power at the moment, the other one is located outside the city centre, I'll 
>move things to the first site once power is restored).
> 
>Peter (usually pgut001@cs.auckland.ac.nz when we have power).
>
------------------------------------------------------------
      David Honig                   Orbit Technology
     honig@otc.net                  Intaanetto Jigyoubu

 The Internet Protocol's only guarantee is that your packets will not clog
the net.






	















From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 11:01:20 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: bugging the swiss
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980226100004.0079cb10@otc.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


	
Mossad was busted for bugging Swiss telephones today.

http://www.newsday.com/ap/rnmpne0j.htm

Swiss Claim Israelis Were Spying

                     By IRENE HARNISCHBERG Associated Press Writer

                     BERN, Switzerland (AP) -- Switzerland said today it
had caught Israel's spy agency in an attempt to bug
                     telephones on the outskirts of the Swiss capital. It
was the third highly publicized Mossad bungle to
                     embarrass the Israeli government in recent months, and
angered Swiss leaders.

                     ``The least Israel can do is apologize quickly,'' said
spokesman Franz Egle of the Swiss Foreign Ministry,
                     which formally protested the alleged bugging attempt
as a violation of national sovereignty.

                     Israel radio said the Israeli agents were trying to
eavesdrop on Iranian diplomats, but Swiss officials denied
                     the report, saying the targets were neither Iranian
nor diplomats.

......
------------------------------------------------------------
      David Honig                   Orbit Technology
     honig@otc.net                  Intaanetto Jigyoubu

 The Internet Protocol's only guarantee is that your packets will not clog
the net.






	















From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Dr. Alan Sherman" 
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 10:29:16 -0800 (PST)
To: nugget@slacker.com
Subject: DES search
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Why doesn't someone speed up the DES search with Hellman's
time-space tradeoff, whose precomputation could be done within
a month?

Alan T. Sherman
sherman@cs.umbc.edu





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 13:55:23 -0800 (PST)
To: "Charles" 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980226134354.007ef100@otc.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 05:26 AM 2/27/98 +1000, Charles wrote:
>
 The government claimed that all 4 of
>our power stations (insert particular fault of the day...I heard
>boilers blowing up, pipes getting clogged etc) had an incredibly
>unlucky act of god perpetrated on them all at the exact same time

Several extremely unlikely faults at the same time is what
often causes the great disasters (e.g., Three mi. is.), as is
well-documented in the
comp.risks arena.


------------------------------------------------------------
      David Honig                   Orbit Technology
     honig@otc.net                  Intaanetto Jigyoubu

 The Internet Protocol's only guarantee is that your packets will not clog
the net.






	















From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: andrew fabbro 
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 13:02:21 -0800 (PST)
To: "Dr. Alan Sherman" 
Subject: Re: DES search
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Thu, 26 Feb 1998, Dr. Alan Sherman wrote:

> Why doesn't someone speed up the DES search with Hellman's
> time-space tradeoff, whose precomputation could be done within
> a month?

Probably because finding spare CPU cycles on thousands of machines is
easy and free, while finding the disk storage space that you mention
would be expensive, and I doubt distributed.net has the resources.
And people who do have the resources are busy doing other things with
them, or keep them at Fort Meade.

I forget because I haven't read that part of Applied Crypto in a while,
but wasn't it terabytes of storage?

-- 
 Andrew Fabbro [afabbro@umich.edu] [andrewf@jesuswept.com]
 http://www-personal.umich.edu/~afabbro/      313.647.2713 
   "When in Bologna will a Fabbro rise again?" --Dante





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Trei, Peter" 
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 13:08:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: DES, MMX, and FPGAs
Message-ID: <6B5344C210C7D011835C0000F8012766010035E1@exna01.securitydynamics.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





In DES key search, the speed of a given machine is controlled by three
main factors: clock speed, the algorithm used, and the availability of
multiple issue (the last refers to perfoming 2 or more instructions in
parallel).

Clock speed can be easily factored out for comparison purposes.
Algorithm is harder; a bitslice algorithm is a clear win on 64 bit
machines with lots of registers, but is roughly equivalent to
non-bitslice algorithms on 32 bit machines with a low register 
count (eg, Intel processors, even using MMX).

Multiple issue can greatly speed up a specificly tuned assembly
language version. I can't speak for the non-intel processors below,
but the Pentium code below is all tuned for the vanilla Pentium, and
does not get a boost from the PPro or P2. 

Let's do the numbers:

d.net peak keys per second: 34,430,460,000

cpk (clocks per key) = (equiv * clock speed)/34B

Processor		clock (MHz)	equiv	cpk
DEC Alpha 321064				 142	(4)
DEC Alpha 21066					 220	(4)
DEC Alpha 21064		533		11,264 	 176	(1)
DEC Alpha 21164 (Deschall)			  94	(3)
Sun Ultra I		167		15,316	  75	(1)
SGI r10k					  69	(4)
Macintosh PowerPC 604e  200		68,859	 403	(1)(2)
Macintosh PowerPC 604e  200		         137	(4)
Intel Pentium II        333		22,393   219	(1)(6)
Intel Pentium Pro				 232	(4)(6)
Intel Pentium           166		41,712   203	(1)
Intal Pentium (Bryddes)				 195	(5)
Intel 486DX2		 66	       399,374   775	(1)
Intel 386SX		 20	     7,446,033  4380	(1)

(1) D.net press release.

(2) This figure comes from the press release. I don't believe it 
for a moment. The next line gives a speed determined from a 
posting to the d.net mailing list, and is much more believable - 
if anything, it appears a little slow.

(3) Deschall client

(4) based on d.net mailing list posting.

(5) Sven Mikkelsen's page.

(6) I'm not aware of any fielded bitslice software for Intel MMX
platforms. I suspect that it would not speed things up too much - 
there are simply too few registers, and you'd spend a lot of time
moving stuff in and out of cache. 

I wouldn't be suprised if some of the figures above are incorrect,
but it's clear that the best processors are getting down to 70-100
clock cycles per key. 

Wiener's keysearch engine unrolls the 16 rounds of DES, and is thus
able to run in a similar way to an assembly line; once it's 'filled
up' it tests 1 key per clock cycle. Any other version would run a 
lot slower. 

Some highly uninformed blather about FPGAs follows:

Wiener's paper uses custom VLSI chips, and claims a need for
26k "gates" or 78257 "sites". I'm not sure how this translates to
silicon requirements in FPGAs - it seems that "gate" and "site" are
nominal terms which are not directly equivalent to actual, physical
gates. I've found one reference to a general DES FPGA implementation
which requires 25k gates, though it's not clear if this reuses the
round circuitry, or 'unrolls' it (I suspect the latter, which would
be good).

I'm also not certain if a FPGA running at, for example, 50 MHz, can
actually run logic operations at that speed. Some things I've read
suggest that FPGAs run ops at several clocks per operation - which
is still a lot better than a general purpose microprocessor.

The fastest and largest FPGAs I'm aware of are the Xilinx 4000
series: The xc40125 has about 80,000 gates, and runs at around
100 MHz (and costs $1500!!). 

Suppose we use this chip, and everything works out optimally. We
can fit 3 des engines per chip, and get 300 Mkeys/sec checked. To
duplicate d.net's speed, we would need about 115 chips, or about
$170k for the chips alone. 

A better choice would be the Xilinx Spartan XL series. This might be
in the $20 - $40 a chip, and would run at 80MHz, and would fit only
one des engine. This would be around $9k - $17k, which is still 
pretty high for an individual. 

At this speed (34Gkey/sec), it would still take 12 days to search
half the keyspace, and the prices quoted are for the chip alone, no
boards, chassies, or SW, and the speeds are assumed to be 
1 key/engine/clock, which is optomistic.

On the plus side, implementing a DES cracker in an FPGA actually
affords us some efficiency savings over a non-reconfigurable chip. The
cipher and plaintexts can be compiled into the design, and if you're
willing to reload the chip frequently, the slower-changing portions of
the key can be built in as well. This cuts the gate count
considerably.

I'd really like to see the next DES challenge taken on by some
organization with a few hundred under utilized FPGA boards.

Peter Trei
ptrei@securitydynamics.com













From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: vcarlos35@juno.com
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 13:57:08 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: DES search
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <19980226.163857.9662.0.vcarlos35@juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


A few terabytes of storage isn't THAT expensive.
Let's see:
1,000,000,000,000 bytes
a CDROM holds about 640 MB, which means that 1563 CDs could hold it.
At CompUSA, that were recently selling recordable CD's for $10 for five,
but
with a mail-in $10 rebate which means you're only paying 32 cents for
postage
for 5 CD's. .32*1563=$500 or so.
Add in the cost of a few CD-R drives @ $300 each = $900 for recording.
Combined total=$1400
Within the reach of distributed.net, I would think.

On Thu, 26 Feb 1998 16:01:55 -0500 (EST) andrew fabbro
 writes:
>On Thu, 26 Feb 1998, Dr. Alan Sherman wrote:
>
>> Why doesn't someone speed up the DES search with Hellman's
>> time-space tradeoff, whose precomputation could be done within
>> a month?
>
>Probably because finding spare CPU cycles on thousands of machines is
>easy and free, while finding the disk storage space that you mention
>would be expensive, and I doubt distributed.net has the resources.
>And people who do have the resources are busy doing other things with
>them, or keep them at Fort Meade.
>
>I forget because I haven't read that part of Applied Crypto in a 
>while,
>but wasn't it terabytes of storage?
>

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Elder 
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 14:32:43 -0800 (PST)
To: "Charles" 
Subject: Re: From Peter Gutmann  Re: So what *does* happen to a city  wit
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980226093420.007dd2d0@otc.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980226172749.007bb470@descartes.coker.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



	In the New York Times yesterday there was an article about a hacker "game"
where the pentagon said that most unclassified computers were breeched, and
supposedly none of the classified ones were hit, according to the
spokesman. I don't know how much validity my idea has, probably very
little, but if there was a "contest" going on like the article implied,
perhaps it wasn't limited to government computers. AOL went down recently,
along with alot of other power outages, if some computers had been
breeched, how difficult would it have been for someone to cause something
to overload and cause a power outage? But then again, perhaps I have a
vivid imagination.

PS: The article from the NY Times could probably still be accessed from the
archive there at www.nytimes.com

-E.

At 05:26 AM 2/27/98 +1000, Charles wrote:
>On 26 Feb 98 at 9:34, David Honig wrote:
>
>> I wrote: 
>> > 
>> >>A part of Aukland is finding out.
>> >>
>> >>http://www.tampabayonline.net/news/news101l.htm
>> 
>> Peter G replies: 
>> >It's pretty serious, so far it's affected (at various times) a number of 
>
>Strangely enough (Auckland is just a 3 hour flight ESE of here) at
>almost the same time Aucklands power went down Brisbane in
>Queensland Australia had its own power problems from last Sunday
>through to approx Thursday. Our situation was nowhere near as bad as
>Aucklands but it was unusual. The government claimed that all 4 of
>our power stations (insert particular fault of the day...I heard
>boilers blowing up, pipes getting clogged etc) had an incredibly
>unlucky act of god perpetrated on them all at the exact same time
>resulting in controlled blackouts to SE Queensland and Brisbane
>(excepting the CBD which was not subject to power rationing). The
>minister responible claims that it was not due to lack of
>maintenance (which would be my guess) but just a one in a billion
>chance. I guess we don't have a national power grid here to draw on
>during such times.
>
>If anyone has found out what really happened here I'd love to know as 
>the pollies usual lies are getting so bad its embaressing.
>
>-- 
>   .////.   .//    Charles Senescall           bear@gargoyle.apana.org.au
> o:::::::::///                                   apache@bear.apana.org.au
>>::::::::::\\\     Finger me for PGP PUBKEY            Brisbane AUSTRALIA
>   '\\\\\'   \\    Apache
>







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: rdshea@20315.com
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 19:43:42 -0800 (PST)
To: 29431@blue.net
Subject: This is your NEW HOUSE,  or BOAT, or ROLLS ROYCE
Message-ID: <125>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



This is your NEW HOUSE,  or BOAT, or ROLLS ROYCE
THIS CAN BE YOUR BEST OF DREAMS! TRY IT!



THIS MAY BE THE MOST SIGNIFICANT LETTER 
                                      YOU WILL RECEIVE THIS YEAR!!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
***Please,... Follow The Instructions Of This  Letter Very Carefully.       Immediately Make  A Copy,  And Read It Twice.*** 

Subject: It's Only a Game, But You Win Big Money!

Greetings, 

Hopefully my name is still on the list below. I am a retired
attorney, and about two years ago a man came to me with a letter. The
letter he brought me is basically the same as the letter in front of you
now. He asked me to verify the fact that this letter was legal. I told him
that I would review it and get back to him. When I first read the letter I
thought it was some off-the-wall idea to make money. A week later I
met again with my client to discuss the issue. I told him that the letter 
originally brought to me was not 100% legal. My client asked me to
alter the letter to make it 100% legal. I advised him to make a small 
change in the letter and it would be alright.
I was curious about the letter, so he told me how it works. I thought it
was a long shot, so I decided against participating. Before my client
left, I asked him to keep me updated as to his results. About two 
months later he called to tell me that he had received over $800,000
in cash! I didn't believe him so he asked me to try the plan and see 
for myself. I thought about it for a couple of days and decided that 
there was not much to lose. I followed the instructions exactly and 
mailed out 200 letters. Sure enough, the money started coming! 
It came slowly at first, but after three weeks I was getting more 
than I could open in a day. After about three months the money 
stopped coming. I kept a precise record of my earnings and at the
end it totaled $868,439.00.

I was earning a good living as a lawyer, but as anyone in the legal
profession will tell you, there is a lot of stress that comes with the
job. I told myself if things worked out I would retire from practice and
play golf. I decided to try the letter again, but this time I sent 500
letters out. Well, three months later I had totaled $2,344,178.00!!! I
just couldn't believe it. I met my old client for lunch to find out how
this exactly works. He told me that there were a few similar letters 
going around. What made this one different is the fact that there are
six names on the letter, not five like most others. That fact alone
resulted in far more returns. The other factor was the advice I gave
him in making sure the whole thing was perfectly legal, since no one
wants to risk doing anything illegal.
                               
I bet by now you are curious about what little change I told him to
make. Well, if you send a letter like this out, to be legal, you must sell
something if you expect to receive a dollar. I told him that anyone
sending a dollar out must receive something in return. So when you 
send a dollar to each of the six names on the list, you must include a 
slip of paper saying, "Please put me on your mailing list" and include 
your name, mailing address, and email address. (Your phone # is optional).
This is the key to the program! The item you will receive for a dollar you 
send to the six names below, is this letter and the right to earn thousands. 
We will be working together to improve each others lives!

Follow the simple instructions below exactly, and in less than three
months you will receive over $800,000.00 GUARANTEED!!!!!!

A)  Immediately send $1.00 to each of the six people on the list below.
Wrap the dollar in a note (type written or handwritten) saying
"Please add me to your mailing list" and include your name, 
mailing address, and email address. Your phone number is optional:

1) Anthony Thomas  8150 East Hildale St.  Detroit, MI  48234
2) Phillip Smith  24321 Sunnypointe  Southfield, MI  48034
3) Claudia Stephan PO Box 1819 Carmichael, CA 95609
4) Nadia Segun PO Box 1357 Rancho Cordova, CA 95741
5) Lidia Zoring  3500 Data dr. # 147 Rancho Cordova, CA 95670
6) James Thomas 11329 S Peoria St. Chicago, IL 60643


B) Remove the name next to #1 on the list and move the rest of the names
up one position. Then place your name in the #6 spot. This is best done by
typing a new list and taping or gluing it over the old one. Or by saving
this to a text file and editing it yourself and saving the new edited 
copy.

C) When you have completed the above instructions, you have an option
of mailing your new letter out in two ways: 1) Through the U.S. Postal
Service or 2) through e-mail. This letter has been proven perfectly legal
for both ways as long as you follow the above instructions, because you're
purchasing membership in an exclusive mailing list . To mail this 
out over the internet, you can browse through areas and find people to 
send  this to all the time. All you have to do is cut and paste email addresses 
wherever you are on the Internet. Remember, it doesn't cost anything to 
mail on the Internet. Or you can get a Mass Mail Network to mail it
out in large volumes for you.                         

2


One that we recommend is:
Cyber Mail ($15 / 200 names) ($25 / 500 names) ($50 / 1,500 names) 
16500 North Park Dr.
Suite 413
Southfield, MI  48075
(248) 557-7778

Either way will bring big payoffs. If you 
are going to use the traditional U.S. Postal Service to do this program, 
you will want to order a minimum 200 names from a mailing list company. 
Two that have been most effective for these lists are: 

***Be sure to ask for "Opportunity Seekers" and request a list less
      than 30 days old***

S.E. Ring Mailing List ($26 / 200 names)
P.O Box 15061
Ft. Lauderdale, FL 33318 (954) 742-9519

Advon Distributors ($28 / 200 names)
P.O. Box B-11
Shelly, ID 83274 (800) 992-3866

***Keep in mind- there is no limit to the amount of names you can send 
      out.  The more names you send, the more money you'll make.
      We strongly encourage you to mail this letter to family, friends and 
      relatives as well.*** 
     

D) When your mailing list arrives, place one label on a stamped
envelope and drop it in the mail box (Be sure to send out at least 200). 
Within 90 days, you will receive over $800,000. 

E)  Keep a copy of this letter and all the names you receive. Mail it out 
again in about 6 months. But mail it to the addresses you received with 
each dollar. It will work again, only much better.

THIS IS A SERVICE AND IS 100% LEGAL !
(Refer to title 18, Section 1302 & 1342 of the U.S. Postal and Lottery 
Laws)

3                                                           
                                                          

Assume for example you get a 7.5% return rate, which is very conservative.
My first attempt was about 9.5% and my second time was over 11%.

1) When you mail out 200 letters, 15 people will send you $1.00.
2) Those 15 mail out 200 letters, and 225 people will send you $1.00
3) Those 225 mail out 200 letters, and 3,375 people will send you $1.00
4) Those 3,375 mail out 200 letters, and 50,625 people will send you $1.00
5) Those 50,625 mail out 200 letters, and 759,375 people will send you $1.00 

At this point your name drops off the list,
but so far you have received $813,615.00!!!!!

It works every time, but how well depends on how many letters you send
out. In the example above, you mailed out 200 letters, if you mailed out 500
letters, you would have received $2,006,917!! Check the math yourself,
I want you to, but I guarantee it is correct! With this kind of return,
you've got to try it. Try it once and you will do it again!!!

Just make sure you send a dollar to each of the six names on the list with
a note to be added to their mailing list. Together we will all prosper!!!!

PS  You've read this far, so let me ask you one simple question:

Q.                      What do you have to lose??
A.                       Only $ 6.00 

What you can gain is an income, like the example in this letter.
Small Risk, Small Expense, HUGE Potential Return!!!
What do you have to loose?
I invite you to join our mailing list today!!!

Don't throw this away. Keep it, think about it, and in several months you will try it!


I looked at it for over two months and then I said "it's only $6" I have to be nuts not to try it.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Perrin ." 
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 20:18:49 -0800 (PST)
To: Yankee1428@aol.com
Subject: Fwd: Paint War
Message-ID: <19980227041810.1449.qmail@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



remember...................
You Can't Get Someone Whos Already Shot You!!!!!!!!!!
ssssSPLATTTT!!!!   SHMUSH
   *    **     * *  *   *   *   *   *
     *    *   *   *  *  *    *   *
   *     *   *    *     *      *   *    *     *        *
hehe...couldn't resist!!!  
(Hey, wipe the paint off the side of your head...LOL)  :-)


RUMMOR HAS IT THAT THIS IS A PAINT WAR........AND YOU HAVE BEEN
SPLATTED..........SO.......TEE HEE......I GOT YOU FIRST !!!!!
TEE HEE HEEE........NEENER NEENER NEENER.....YOU HAVE BEEN
PAINT SPLATTERED !!!!!!!!!


     You Are Now Officially Involved In
    "Paint War '98"
  
  You Have taken A Severe Shot To The Head.  You must Get As Many People
As
You Possibly Can.


------------
Fixed by Perrin
pleontks@Hotmail.com
http://members.tripod.com/~pleontks
http://www.angelfire.com/az/69frank69

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: sara.a.james@usa.net
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 22:35:41 -0800 (PST)
To: WantFree@software4.you.ca
Subject: suggestion
Message-ID: <011297055501222@e-bizness.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain






Visit http:www.sface.com

for free software

Sara James





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: sample@whynot.net
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 17:43:32 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: Auction
Message-ID: <3168726_40397477>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



This weeks specials at http://www.wildauction.com

All products start at just $1, Higher quantities, low prices!
All auctions close Monday at 10pm Eastern time, International orders welcome.

230 Watt AT Power Supply starting at $1!
S3 ViRGE/DX 3D PCI 4MB Video Accelerator starting at $1!
Datamax P233MMX Multimedia Notebook Debonair starting at $1!
230 watt power supply starting at $1!
Microsoft Windows NT Workstation 4.0 starting at $1!
3.5" Floppy Disk Drive starting at $1!
The Datamax P233MMX Multimedia Reaper starting at $1!
Designer Mid-Tower Case starting at $1!
Microsoft Office 97 Professional 20-Pack starting at $1!
Acer 24x E-IDE CD-Rom Drive starting at $1!
Rockwell 56Kflex Internal Data/Fax/Voice Modem starting at $1!
Intel Pentium II 300MHz Processor starting at $1!
Shuttle Hot255 PCI Wavetable Sound Card starting at $1!
Rockwell 33.6 Internal Data/Fax/Voice Modem starting at $1!
AcerScan 610 Plus Color Flatbed Scanner starting at $1!
8x32 32MB EDO RAM chip starting at $1!
Datamax P233 MMX Multimedia Notebook Excelsior starting at $1!
33.6 Modems (Out of box Special) starting at $1!
Intel Pentium 233MMX Cpu with Fan/Heatsink starting at $1!
Windows 95 OSR2.1 w/ certificate and manual starting at $1!
AcerScan Prisa 310P Scanner starting at $1!
2 x 64 32MB SDRAM chip starting at $1!
Maxtech 1726 17" SVGA Monitor starting at $1!
3 Button 9-pin serial Mouse starting at $1!
Encore 8 port 10Base-T Hub starting at $1!
MGC 1765BA 17" SVGA Monitor starting at $1!
4x32 16MB EDO RAM starting at $1!
MGC 1569 15" Monitor starting at $1!
Datamax Pentium II 300 MHz Multimedia Killer starting at $1!
S3 Trio 64 1MB PCI Video Card starting at $1!
70 Watt Power Amplified Speakers starting at $1!
Microsoft Office Pro 97 starting at $1!
Amptron TXPro Motherboard starting at $1!
Fujitsu 4.3 UltraDMA Hard Drive starting at $1!
Amptron Pentium MMX TX Motherboard starting at $1!




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "David E. Smith" 
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 20:48:31 -0800 (PST)
To: vcarlos35@juno.com
Subject: Re: DES search
In-Reply-To: <19980226.163857.9662.0.vcarlos35@juno.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Thu, 26 Feb 1998 vcarlos35@juno.com wrote:

> a CDROM holds about 640 MB, which means that 1563 CDs could hold it.
> At CompUSA, that were recently selling recordable CD's for $10 for five,
> but
> with a mail-in $10 rebate which means you're only paying 32 cents for
> postage
> for 5 CD's. .32*1563=$500 or so.
> Add in the cost of a few CD-R drives @ $300 each = $900 for recording.
> Combined total=$1400
Yes, but then you have to be able to read them all too. :) I'm not up on
CD changers, but how much would sufficient changers cost to read from
those 1500+ CDs? (Remember, we only need to read 1560 of 'em since the
CDRs can double as readers... :)

Maybe when DVD-ROM gets out there, and somewhat affordable, but not with
CDs (IMHO OC).

dave



----- David E. Smith, P O Box 324, Cape Girardeau MO 63702
http://bureau42.base.org/people/dave/ dave@bureau42.ml.org

"Quite simply, I'm telling you to GROW UP." -- Dunkelzahn's will





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: cmp@iddqd.org (Concrete Maintenance Products)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 04:17:29 -0800 (PST)
To: cmp@iddqd.org
Subject: 260298 Concrete Protection & Resurfacing
Message-ID: <199802272451HAA17084@post.intercable.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


 ===========================================================
  MYTH:
 Concrete will last forever with no protection or maintenance.
 
 FACT: Deterioration starts quietly and instantly. The time to protect
 against costly deterioration is before it begins. 
 ===========================================================
 
 ------------------------------
      CONTENTS
 ------------------------------
 
 1. Protect Concrete
     a. Concrete Conditioner
 2. Repair and/or Resurface Concrete
 3. CMP Web Site
     a. Tour our Web Site

 --------------------------------------
  1. Protect Concrete
 --------------------------------------
 
 When you consider all the elements and wear your concrete is exposed
 to:
 
 ALWAYS BEING RUN OVER
 STEPPED ON AND
 DUMPED ON 
 
 Water, harmful chemicals and abrasion all take their toll on your
 concrete. With all this abuse is it any wonder that concrete does not
 have the long life and good appearance it should have

 -------------------------------------------------------
  1a. THE CONCRETE CONDITIONER
 -------------------------------------------------------
 
*****NOW AVAILABLE TO THE HOMEOWNER*****
 
 Now you can do something to protect your concrete. The Concrete
 Conditioner has been available for commercial and industral use and is
 now available to the home owner.

 *****A Preventive Care Product*****
 
 The conditioner is a liquid treatment that seals your concrete from
 the inside out and makes it dense.  More importantly it transforms the
 surface from a soft limestone to a harder flint like surface.  After
 treatment your concrete is protected from water, salts, harmful
 chemicals and wear.
 
*****DO IT YOUR-SELF*****
 
 The conditioner is safe, easy to use and BEST of all it works.  We 
 have simple do-it-yourself directions.
 
 It's also affordable. It is possible to do your garage floor or drive
 way for less than $100.  When you consider the high cost of
 replacement---every home has $5,000 - $10,000. or more of concrete. 
 Conditioning your concrete is one of the best investments you can
 make. 
 
 >DON'T WAIT TILL YOU SEE WEAR, DAMAGE OR DETERIORATION.
 
 >MAKE PLANS TO TREAT YOUR NEW CONCRETE THE DAY IT IS POURED.  
 
 >CONCRETE OF ANY AGE WILL BENEFIT. 
 
 >STOP OR SLOW DETERIORATION THAT HAS ALREADY STARTED.
 
 -------------------------------------------------------------------------
  2. REPAIR and/or RESURFACECONCRETE
 -------------------------------------------------------------------------

We can provide you with quality surface restoration and protection materials to:
>Clean Concrete
>Repair Cracks
>Patch Concrete
>Resurface Concrete

To make old, cracked, deteriorating surfaces better than new!

*****AT A FRACTION OF THE COST OF REPLACEMENT*****

----------------------------------------------------
  VISIT OUT WEB SITE FOR 
       MORE INFORMATION 
----------------------------------------------------
 
TAKE A BRIEF TOUR OF OUR WEB SITE 
1st Stop -- About Concrete
**A MUST FOR FIRST TIME VISITORS**
Click Here
http://world-space.ids.on.ca/users/cmp/tour/

LEARN HOW TO PREVENT CONCRETE DETERIORATION
Click Here
http://world-space.ids.on.ca/users/cmp/conditioning/prevent.htm

LEARN MORE ABOUT CONCRETE CONDITIONING
Click Here
http://world-space.ids.on.ca/users/cmp/conditioning/conditioning.htm

LEARN MORE ABOUT REPAIRS AND RESURFACING
Click Here
http://world-space.ids.on.ca/users/cmp/randr.htm

 ---------------------------------------------------------------------
     REMOVE ME FROM YOUR LIST NOW
 ---------------------------------------------------------------------
 To be REMOVED from our list send an email to cmpremove@iddqd.org by:
CLICKING HERE
 
*********************************************************************
Concrete Maintenance Products
169 James Avenue
Minneapolis MN  55405





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Charles" 
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 11:27:08 -0800 (PST)
To: David Honig 
Message-ID: <199802261924.FAA25202@gargoyle.apana.org.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On 26 Feb 98 at 9:34, David Honig wrote:

> I wrote: 
> > 
> >>A part of Aukland is finding out.
> >>
> >>http://www.tampabayonline.net/news/news101l.htm
> 
> Peter G replies: 
> >It's pretty serious, so far it's affected (at various times) a number of 

Strangely enough (Auckland is just a 3 hour flight ESE of here) at
almost the same time Aucklands power went down Brisbane in
Queensland Australia had its own power problems from last Sunday
through to approx Thursday. Our situation was nowhere near as bad as
Aucklands but it was unusual. The government claimed that all 4 of
our power stations (insert particular fault of the day...I heard
boilers blowing up, pipes getting clogged etc) had an incredibly
unlucky act of god perpetrated on them all at the exact same time
resulting in controlled blackouts to SE Queensland and Brisbane
(excepting the CBD which was not subject to power rationing). The
minister responible claims that it was not due to lack of
maintenance (which would be my guess) but just a one in a billion
chance. I guess we don't have a national power grid here to draw on
during such times.

If anyone has found out what really happened here I'd love to know as 
the pollies usual lies are getting so bad its embaressing.

-- 
   .////.   .//    Charles Senescall           bear@gargoyle.apana.org.au
 o:::::::::///                                   apache@bear.apana.org.au
>::::::::::\\\     Finger me for PGP PUBKEY            Brisbane AUSTRALIA
   '\\\\\'   \\    Apache




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ken Williams 
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 02:57:55 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: (crosspost)  [IWAR] ANONYMITY HTML risk (fwd)
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>From:  
---------- Forwarded message ----------
>From: 7Pillars Partners 
To: g2i list , IWAR list 
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 09:30:06 -0800 (PST)
Reply-To: iwar@sirius.infonex.com
Subject: [IWAR] ANONYMITY HTML risk

Two points: military personal should be particularly aware of this problem, and
users with needs for anonymity should be certain to check out the options
provided by the Anonymizer. --MW

Is Web-Based Mail Bad for Your Anonymity?
 by Steve Silberman 

 5:03am 26.Feb.98.PST
 It's the kind of scare story, posted from an
 anonymous address, that makes the rounds of
 computer security mailing lists and newsgroups.
 This time, however, the scenario was so simple as
 to be highly plausible. 

 The post - made last week to the Cypherpunks
 mailing list - began ominously: "I just had my
 online pseudonym outed to my company's VP of
 marketing, with potentially serious internecine
 political consequences." 

 The author explained that, like many people, he
 maintains two separate email addresses: a work
 account, and an alternate account on a remote
 server at the local college. For the latter, the
 author employs a pseudonym. This, he says,
 allows him to speak his mind about political views,
 as well as his disdain for his employer's use of
 unsolicited bulk emailings - spam - without fear of
 reprisal. 

 The author's cover was blown, he said, the day he
 used Netscape Mail on his workstation to fetch a
 message mailed by his company to his account
 on the college server. 

 So where was the leak? 

 Like more and more email programs, Netscape
 Messenger - along with Outlook Express, Eudora
 4.0 and many free Web-based mail services such
 as Hotmail - offers users the ability to send and
 receive not only text messages, but fully-rendered
 Web pages, in all their graphical glory. If a user
 has both Eudora 4.0 and Internet Explorer, for
 instance, Eudora will borrow IE's HMTL-rendering
 capabilities to display Web pages sent in mail
 messages. 

 The mail targeted by the company to the author's
 pseudonymous address was written in HTML, and
 contained a standard image tag. When Netscape
 opened the mail and rendered the page, the tag
 sent a call to the company's Web server to fetch
 the image, which left a tell-tale footprint - the IP
 address of the author's machine - on his
 employer's logs. Busted! 

 As software designers aim for a seamlessly
 integrated desktop - with multiple email accounts,
 the Web, and local file access all a click away -
 the tools you select for everyday tasks are more
 important than ever. 

 "This isn't really a mail security issue," observes
 Eric S. Raymond, author of a remote mail-retrieval
 utility called fetchmail. "Email security is
 nonexistent anyway unless you use a strong
 end-to-end encryption method like PGP, but that
 wouldn't have helped here. The issue was an
 unintended side effect of having an intelligent
 agent read your mail and go off to the Web to get
 a piece of information. If he'd been using a [text
 mail] program like Elm or Pine or Mutt, he wouldn't
 have gotten bitten." 

 Cryptography consultant Bruce Schneier, author of
 E-Mail Security: How to Keep Your Electronic
 Messages Private, points out that exchanging
 text-only messages and exchanging HTML entail
 different levels of information exchange between
 sender and recipient. 

 "HTML is a robust protocol designed to make
 things run smoothly, therefore it passes a lot of
 information behind the scenes. That's why it's
 useful," he says. 

 Reading Web pages with an HTML-enabled mail
 program doesn't leave any more of a trail behind
 you than surfing through a site - but it doesn't
 leave any less of one, either. 

 You may not even know when you're on the Web
 when you read your mail with a Web-enabled
 program. Several online publications - including
 Wired News - are available in email form, via
 options such as Netscape In-Box Direct. The text
 portion of the publication is sent to your in-box,
 but images may be siphoned from a remote server
 when you open the message. Clicking on links
 may take you out on the Web while you still think
 you're reading mail on your own hard drive. 

 For Simson Garfinkel, author of Web Security and
 Commerce, the lessons to be gleaned from this
 incident are not about text vs. HTML mail
 software, but about workplace rights. 

 "This individual was using his computer at work,
 and he thought that because he was reading
 personal mail on another ISP, his computer was
 not subject to his employer's scrutiny. Employees
 have no rights to privacy in this country," Garfinkel
 says. "If you want to maintain a digital
 pseudonym, don't read your personal mail at
 work." 


Ken Williams

/--------------------------[   TATTOOMAN   ]--------------------------\
| ORG: NC State Computer Science Dept    VP of The  E. H. A. P. Corp. |
| EML: jkwilli2@adm.csc.ncsu.edu         ehap@hackers.com             |
| EML: jkwilli2@unity.ncsu.edu           ehap-secure@hackers.com      |
| WWW: http://www4.ncsu.edu/~jkwilli2/   http://www.hackers.com/ehap/ |
| FTP: ftp://152.7.11.38/pub/personal/tattooman/                      |
| W3B: http://152.7.11.38/~tattooman/w3board/                         |
| PGP: finger tattooman@152.7.11.38                                   |
\----------------[   http://152.7.11.38/~tattooman/  ]----------------/






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Eng500 
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 14:58:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Hoo ha!
Message-ID: <9acb3179.34f6af5d@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hi.  Check out the #1 best site on the web! You wont regret it!

http://152.163.233.31/dcja1


or click here!




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 04:30:42 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: NYT on Crypto Smoke
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980227123327.00695284@pop.pipeline.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


   The New York Times, February 27, 1998, p. D1.

   Clinton Continues to Stumble Over the 'E' Word (Encryption)

   By John Markoff

   San Francisco, Feb. 26 -- President Clinton described the
   economic impact of the Internet today in glowing terms to
   an audience of technology investors here, but he failed to
   touch on the issue that increasingly appears to matter most
   to Silicon Valley: the fiery debate over the
   Administration's policy on data scrambling.

   The Clinton Administration has endeared itself to the
   nation's high-technology center by cutting capital gains
   taxes and by calling today for a bill that would bar state
   and local governments from enacting taxes on the Internet
   until 2004. But encryption may prove to be the
   Administration's Achilles' heel in its otherwise friendly
   ties with Silicon Valley.

   The debate over encryption -- which has pitted industry and
   civil liberties groups against law enforcement and
   intelligence agencies -- has sharpened in recent weeks. New
   legislation that would restrict the unlimited use of
   encryption is about to be introduced on Capitol Hill. A
   series of intense behind-the-scenes negotiations over a
   compromise solution between the Clinton Administration and
   a small group of high-technology executives suggests that
   no simple resolution is in sight.

   Encryption policy has become a flash point because it is
   both essential for the growth of Internet commerce and
   vital for the protection of privacy. Techniques that use
   mathematical formulas permit computers to scramble data so
   they cannot be read without access to a special "key,"
   usually a large number that permits a user to unscramble
   the information. Law enforcement officials want to force
   users to put such keys in escrow with independent
   authorities to allow for electronic surveillance in
   criminal investigations.

   President Clinton has told Silicon Valley executives in
   private meetings that he is sympathetic with their
   viewpoint but that he is under great pressure from law
   enforcement and national security officials to put even
   greater controls in place on encryption technology.

   "To us this is really important, but it's just an irritant
   to him," said one Silicon Valley executive who met with the
   President before his speech today and asked not be
   identified further. "His basic message to us was, 'Can we
   get this thing done?' "

   Senators John McCain, Republican of Arizona, and Bob
   Kerrey, Democrat of Nebraska, are circulating a revised
   version of their encryption bill, which includes several
   changes in response to industry and privacy concerns but it
   has so far won few adherents outside of the law-enforcement
   community.

   Critics say the legislation is simply a placeholder for
   future laws that would restrict the use of the technology.

   "Everyone who is looking at the export issue is looking at
   it as a prelude to domestic controls," said Mark Rasch, a
   former Federal prosecutor who is now a specialist in
   encryption and computer security issues at the Science
   Applications International Corporation in McLean, Va.

   Industry opponents of encryption controls, heavily financed
   by high-technology companies, are preparing to announce on
   Wednesday a new coalition, Americans for Privacy, aimed at
   ending restrictions on encryption technology exports.

   At the same time Hewlett Packard plans to announce on
   Friday a new set of encryption technologies, with
   endorsements from the Department of Commerce and companies
   like I.B.M.. These technologies known as the International
   Cryptographic Framework, would let individual governments
   establish potentially conflicting encryption policies -- or
   even place no restrictions.

   Silicon Valley executives argue that the law-enforcement
   demand for the continued ability to wiretap in the
   information age is wishful thinking at best. The easy
   availability of powerful encryption software has made it
   possible for any two people, anywhere in the world to hold
   a secret conversation beyond the prying of even the most
   powerful code-breaking computer, they say.

   The White House is now considering several other industry
   proposals intent on finding a compromise between industry
   and law enforcement interests.

   Another approach that is now being raised in negotiations
   between industry executives and the White House has been
   put forth by executives from Cisco Systems, the company
   that is the dominate provider of Internet routing
   equipment.

   The Cisco proposal, known as Clearzone, would place
   encryption in the network instead of from personal computer
   to personal computer. Then, if a law-enforcement agency had
   a warrant to wiretap, it would be possible to go to an
   Internet provider that could then turn off encryption. But
   this proposal makes no provision for retrieving stored
   information also sought by law-enforcement agents.

   [Photo] President Clinton and Sandy Robertson of
   BancAmerica Robertson Stephens, at a conference of
   technology executives and investors in San Francisco
   yesterday.

   [End]






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 05:06:05 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: KRA Dis-Trust
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980227130857.006a23d8@pop.pipeline.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Federal Register: February 27, 1998 (Volume 63, Number 39)
[Page 10040-10041]
>From the Federal Register Online via GPO Access [wais.access.gpo.gov]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE

 
Notice Pursuant to the National Cooperative Research and 
Production Act of 1993; Key Recovery Alliance (``KRA'')

    Notice is hereby given that, on October 20, 1997, pursuant to 
Sec. 6(a) of the National Cooperative Research and Production Act of 
1993, 15 U.S.C. 4301 et seq. (``the Act''), the Key Recovery Alliance 
(``KRA'') has filed written notifications simultaneously with the 
Attorney General and the Federal Trade Commission disclosing (1) The 
identities of the parties and (2) the nature and objectives of the 
venture. The notifications were filed for the purpose of invoking the 
Act's provisions limiting the recovery of antitrust plaintiff's to 
actual damages under specified circumstances. Pursuant to Sec. 6(b) of 
the Act, the identities of the parties are: Apple Computer, Inc., 
Cupertino, CA; Cylink Corporation, Sunnyvale, CA; Data Securities 
International, Inc., San Diego, CA; Digital Equipment Corporation, 
Nashua, NH; Golden Star Technology, Inc.,

[[Page 10041]]

Cerritos, CA; Information Resource Engineering, Inc., Baltimore, MD; 
Intel Corporation, Hillsboro, OR; International Business Machines, 
Inc., Somers, NY; Motorola, Scottsdale, AZ; NCR, West Columbia, SC; 
Novell Inc., Provo, UT; Sourcefile, Atlanta, GA; Sun Microsystems, 
Inc., Mountain View, CA; Trusted Information Systems, Inc., McLean, VA.

    KRA was formed for the following purposes: (a) Stimulate global 
electronic commerce by encouraging the harmonization of market driven 
solutions available globally for secure communication using strong 
encryption; (b) serve as a focal point for industry efforts to develop 
commercially acceptable solutions for recovery of encrypted 
information; (c) determine interoperability concerns and potential 
architectural solutions among key recovery technologies and non-key 
recovery technologies; (d) support the development of a global 
infrastructure that supports recovery of encrypted information and (e) 
promote the implementation, deployment and use of interoperable key 
recovery technologies in the market. In furtherance of the foregoing 
purposes, KRA may undertake research, development, analysis, testing, 
study, and experimentation concerning or relating to key recovery 
technologies, and it may engage in the collection, exchange and 
analysis of research information concerning key recovery technologies.

    Additional parties may become members of KRA. KRA will file 
supplemental written notifications disclosing all new members.

Constance K. Robinson,
Director of Operations, Antitrust Division.
[FR Doc. 98-5014 Filed 2-26-98; 8:45 am]
BILLING CODE 4410-11-M







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 67471470@30410.com
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 00:33:26 -0800 (PST)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: LOWER YOUR CHILD SUPPORT!!!
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




LOWER YOUR CHILD SUPPORT!!!

Don't be a DEADBEAT DAD!!!

Join the FATHERS' RIGHTS COALITION and learn how to legally reduce
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----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 

YES, I want to join the  FATHERS' RIGHTS COALITION.  I have enclosed $49.90 for the lifetime membership.  
Upon receipt of my application and membership, send me REDUCE YOUR CHILD SUPPORT WITHOUT AN ATTORNEY..
                               
                               E-Mail Address _________________
                                                                                                                                 002
		
                                Name______________________________________

 		Address______________________________________

		City__________________ State ________  Zip 	_________










From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 09:30:19 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: FBI national wiretap stalled for $$
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980227092656.007ed320@otc.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




The telcos don't want to be stuck for the > $500,000,000 cost of installing
the national
surveillience infrastructure.



http://www.newsday.com/ap/rnmpwh19.htm

	
Reno: Impasse on Digital Wiretaps

                     WASHINGTON (AP) -- Attorney General Janet Reno says an
``impasse'' between the government and telephone companies
                     is delaying installation of new technology that would
enable the FBI and other law enforcement agencies to wiretap into new
                     digital phone lines.

                     Under a 1994 law the government was to pay the phone
companies up to $500 million to develop new computer codes and
                     switches and have them installed by next October.

                     The effort, however, was delayed for at least two
years while the FBI and the phone companies battled with each other over
                     the extent of how much wiretapping capability would be
provided.

                     Testifying Thursday before a House appropriations
subcommittee, Reno conceded that meeting law enforcement's future needs
                     will likely cost the phone companies more than $500
million. She said the phone companies have balked at moving forward
                     unless the government agrees to reimburse their costs
above that amount.

                     ``We may be at an impasse,'' she said. ``Simply said,
industry's proposal is that all equipment, services and facilities
installed or
                     deployed as of October 1998 would be deemed in
compliance forever ... unless the government agrees to pay to modify or to
                     upgrade it.''

                     Reno said the Justice Department likely will file a
petition with the Federal Communications Commission next month ``stating
                     that the proposed industry technical solution is
deficient'' and asking the agency to make the phone companies meet law
                     enforcement needs.

                     She said the FBI's electronic surveillance is already
being hampered because of the impasse. But given the six months that the
                     FCC says it would need to decide the case and another
18 months required to install the necessary software and switches,
                     Reno said it may be two years before police agencies'
wiretapping capability fully is restored.

                     Meanwhile, the Justice Department has asked for
another $100 million in next year's budget to reimburse the phone companies.

                     The subcommittee's chairman, Rep. Harold Rogers,
R-Ky., told Reno to not expect any more money until the dispute is
                     resolved.

                     ``I not only hope that it's going to happen; I'm going
to make it happen,'' he said, ``or you won't get any money. I don't know
                     how more bluntly I can put it. You dragged your feet
for three years ..., the industry has dragged their feet. I think it's a
plague
                     on both your houses.''

------------------------------------------------------------
      David Honig                   Orbit Technology
     honig@otc.net                  Intaanetto Jigyoubu

 The Internet Protocol's only guarantee is that your packets will not clog
the network.






	















From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Gartner Interactive 
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 07:13:05 -0800 (PST)
To: Gartner Interactive Users 
Subject: New enhancements introduced today!
Message-ID: <199802271512.HAA21801@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Dear Gartner Interactive User,

We are excited to announce significant enhancements to Gartner
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 10:57:14 -0800 (PST)
To: ray kammer <" kammer"@nist.gov>
Subject: cyber FOIA/settlement e-mail
Message-ID: <34F70889.508F@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Friday February 27, 1998 11:18 AM

By e-mail and US mail

Lieutenant General Kenneth A Minihan, USAF
Director, National Security Agency
National Security Agency
9800 Savage Road
Fort George G. Meade, MD 20755-6000

Dear General Minihan:

Purposes of the letter are to

1  request information under the Freedom of Information Act
2  explore settlement possibilities of our current lawsuit.

In about 1986 Sandia National Laboratories assigned me the 
task of  design and construction of a Comprehensive Test Ban 
Treaty seismic data authenticator.

In the initial stages of the project, Sandia cryptographer 
Gustavus Simmons attempted to convince both Sandia 
management and NSA employees Tom White, Mark Unkenholtz,
and Ed Georgio that a form of public key authentication should 
replace NSA employee Ronald Benincasa's National Seismic
Station/Unmaned Seismic Observatory 11-bit data authentication
algorithm.

My Sandia supervisor John Holovka and project leader H B [Jim]
Durham ordered me to write a paper explaining public key 
cryptography.

This paper,  RSA ENCRYPTION, along with my SAND report
describing my implementation of Benincasa's algorithm and
filings in our lawsuit, now appear on Internet at
http://www.jya.com/index.htm, click CRYPTOME, then OpEd,
then http://www.jya.com/whprsa.htm.

Sandia explored the merits of switching from Benincasa's
algorithm to a public key-based authentication method suggested
by Simmons.

For Sandia's evaluation of the merits of public key, electronic tagging,
and Bureau of Engraving and Printing projects ,  I bought for Sandia 
samples both the Cylink CY1024 and AT&T A & B two chip sets for
modulo m arithmetic computations.

NSA employee Tom White sent me a copy of the SECRET classified
NSA report on IBM's hardware public key chip FIREFLY.

I wrote in my tutorial paper

  RSA hardware computations

  The slow speed of software RSA computations plus the potential
  wide use prompted several companies to build chips which compute
  modular arithmetic to at least several hundred bits.  Most of
  these chips "cascade" to compute with a larger number of bits.

  Corporations involved in building these chips are

     1  IBM  Firefly

     2  AT&T

     3  Motorola (apparently a three chip set)

     4  Cylink   Pittway-First alert

     5  Sandia Labs (Algorithm M and predecessor chip)

  Details of the IBM chip is classified.  AT&T as of July 1987 has
  not released details of their chip.  Little information is
  available on the Motorola chip set.

  The Cylink chip is commercially available.  Its price dropped
  from $1,500 to $600 each in June 1987.  Data is transferred to
  and from the chip with serial shift register communication.

  The early Sandia chip was limited in speed.  The replacement
  chip is cascadeable, communicates with 8 or 16 bits parallel,
  matches the speed of the Cylink chip, but is not out of
  fabrication.

  Rumors circulate that there is about an order of magnitude
  performance difference between some of these chips.

  These hardware chips improve exponentiation speed about 3 orders
  of magnitude over software implementation benchmarked on an Intel
  8086 family microcomputer.

Whitfield Diffie writes about both the Cylink and Sandia chips.  And
is quoted at  http://www.aci.net/kalliste/nukearse.htm.

Sandia had terrible luck with its public key chips.  

I reported SOME of the troubles to Electronic Engineering Times editor
Loring Wirbel [http://techweb.cmp.com/eet/823/] on March 23, 1994.

        Dr. John Wisniewski was a supervisor at Sandia's Center for
        Radiation-hardened Microelectronics.  Wisniewski was a graduate
        student at Washington State University in about 1975.  I was a
        professor at WSU.

        Wisniewski knows all about the failing Sandia chips in the
nuclear
        arsenal.  I took notes on February 13, 1993.  Wisniewski
reviewed
        the problems again for me.

             1    No quality initiative.  Each chip lot had a different
                  process.
             2    Overall yield - 40-50%.  Down to 10% after packaging.
             3    Metalization problems.  No planarization.  No flow of
                  glass.  Couldn't use high temperature.  Step coverage
                  problems.  Layed down over tension.  100% field
returns
                  over several years.
             4    Sandia would store lots of parts for replacements.

        Sandia management made the decision to place low yield parts in
        the nuclear arsenal.  Sandia must meet DOD schedules management
        reasoned.  Hundreds of millions spent on CRM.  Sandia must show
        productivity.

        Wisniewski told me that low yield chip test survivors are those
which
        the tests failed to detect failures.  Wisniewski will talk. 
503-625-
        6408.  Wisniewski now works for Intel in Oregon.  Have
Wisniewski
        tell you about the fire in the CRM clean room!

Sandia supervisor Jerry Allen later told me it cost $300,000 each to
remove
Sandia's failing chips at Pantex from a nuclear bomb.

NSA apparently is biased toward hardware implementations of
cryptographic
and authentication algorithms.  As opposed to software implementation.

NSA representatives and Sandia management decided not to use a public
key authentication scheme for its CTBT seismic data authenticator
because
of all of the problems with implementing public key algorithms.

But NSA surely has spent MUCH MONEY on public key chip implementations.

NSA is promoting its Clipper crypto chips as described at
http://cpsr.org/dox/clipper.html.

And we get some information about technical specifications of NSA's
Clipper
chip at http://www.us.net/softwar/http://www.us.net/softwar/clip.html

  Clipper Chip Information

  MYK-78 CLIPPER CHIP ENCRYPTION/DECRYPTION  ON A CHIP 

     1 micron double level metal CMOS technology 
     0.35 watts power 
     28 pin plastic leaded chip carrier (PLCC) package 
     Transistor to transistor logic (TTL) interface 
     Chip ID, family key and device unique key are installed at
programming. 
     Chip ID, family key and device unique key are installed at
programming           facility and are completely transparent to the
user.

Therefore, Under the provision of the Freedom of Information Act, 
5 USC 552, I am requesting access to: 

1  Copies of all invoices from

	A   AT&T
	B   Motorola
	C   IBM
	D  Sandia National Laboratories

to NSA for payments for developing ANY public key-related chips between
January 1, 1980 and February 27, 1998.

2  Copies of all invoices to NSA from ANY corporation involved in
development
of ANY Clipper chip-related hardware between January 1, 1980 and 
February 27, 1998.

The public has a right to know how much NSA spent on TRYING monoploize
the crypto
business.

If there are any fees for searching for, or copying, the records I have 
requested, please inform me before you fill the request.

As you know, the Act permits you to reduce or waive the fees when the 
release of the information is considered as "primarily benefiting the
public."  
I believe that this requests fits that category and I therefore ask that
you waive 
any fees.

If all or any part of this request is denied, please cite the specific
exemption(s) 
which you think justifies your refusal to release the information and
inform 
me of your agency's administrative appeal procedures available to me
under the law.

I would appreciate your handling this request as quickly as possible,
and I look 
forward to hearing from you within 20 working days, as the law
stipulates.

With respect to our current FOIA lawsuit, I feel that we should settle
this
unfortunate matter.

I see from your biography at  http://www.nsa.gov:8080/ and
http://www.nsa.gov:8080/dirnsa/dirnsa.html that you are

         1979   Distinguished Graduate
         Master of Arts degree in National Security Affairs 
         Naval Postgraduate School 
         Monterey, California

One of my former M.S. and Ph.D students in Computer Science,
Ted Lewis, is currently the chairman of Computer Science at
Naval Postgraduate School [http://www.friction-free-economy.com/].

Small world.

But I think that this emphasizes that WE SHOULD all be on the same side.
Not engaged in a conflict in US federal court.  Or on Internet.

NSA attempts to withhold requested information are possibly unwise.  

In our wired world the aggrieved know what happened to them.
http://www.wpiran.org/,http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/impact/namir/namirm.html

And moderates in Iran, http://persia.org/khatami/biography.html, appear
want
settlement too.

My family and I have been damaged by these crypto wars.

I ask you that consider fair settlement of damages caused by the
National
Security Agency.

I cannot find your e-mail address on Internet.

Therefore I will forward the e-mail copy of this FOIA/settlement letter
to 
Ray Kammer of NIST [http://www.nist.gov/], who along with the FBI 
[http://www.fbi.gov/, http://www.fbi.gov/fo/nyfo/nytwa.htmand], and NSA 
are trying to control the crypto business so that Kammer can possibly
forward an e-mail copy of the FOIA/Settlement letter to you.

Sincerely,

bill

William Payne
13015 Calle de Sandias
Albuquerque, NM 87111
505-292-7037 [I am not reading e-mail]






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 14:20:41 -0800 (PST)
To: Information Security 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980227124515.008aa420@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


>   >   : Didn't the government finally back down on their
>   >   : attempt to legally kill the Unabomber?  
>   >   This point strikes me as pretty funny.  Kinda like a nurse rooting
>   >   for Charles Starkweather.

>Or trying to be consistent.
>Raygun: abortion is killing, but pro-death penalty.
>If killing is wrong, killing again is wrong.

No consistency involved - many of them would like to kill him.
But they've Got Their Man, and he's made it clear that a trial
will be difficult, long, expensive, involve lots of firing lawyers
and arguing about mental competency, and generally be trouble,
and he's offered to plead guilty if they won't kill him.

Even though he's a highly intelligent cold-blooded killer,
he's also close enough to crazy that the public will have
enough sympathy for him that killing him won't be highly popular,
especially because his brother wouldn't have turned him in
if he'd expected him to be killed.

Also, while his killings have been somewhat scary and weird,
they haven't generated the kind of public outrage that the
OKCity bombing did, with dead babies on the front page of the papers.
The defendents there are going to get killed, and the public
is going to enjoy it, and the Neilsen Ratings will be high.

>Next time, the killer might not be caught because
>the person who recognized (yea traffic analysis)
>his talktalk might not want them killed as a result.
>i.e. in the long run it will save lives.

I think you're right here.
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ernest Hua 
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 14:31:59 -0800 (PST)
To: "'bill payne'" , ray kammer <" kammer"@nist.gov>
Subject: Cylink + NSA
Message-ID: <413AC08141DBD011A58000A0C924A6D50D7DAC@MVS2>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Did anyone notice that Cylink just got a new VP of product development?
Did anyone notice that this person just retired from the NSA?

Care to guess the name and former rank?

Ern




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: William Towey 
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 11:25:43 -0800 (PST)
To: honig@otc.net
Subject: Re: FBI national wiretap stalled for $$
Message-ID: <199802271925.OAA18807@shell.monmouth.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain









From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC 
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 13:48:37 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Prologue 5/0
Message-ID: <009C2717.6A6E31C0.72@west.cscwc.pima.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC 
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 13:49:14 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Prologue 5a/0
Message-ID: <009C2717.82F09BC0.78@west.cscwc.pima.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC 
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 13:50:04 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Prologue 5c/0
Message-ID: <009C2717.9EA050E0.80@west.cscwc.pima.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC 
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 13:54:51 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Prologue 3/0
Message-ID: <009C2718.4A375160.13@west.cscwc.pima.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


~       SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS / PROLOGUE 3/0
	(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)

The Most Dangerous Man In Lost Wagess:
  They had followed him from the CypherPunks physical meeting 
to the outskirts of Las Vegas, before losing him. Two days of
frantic searching by a variety of law enforcement agencies 
led to the Plaza Hotel and Casino, where he was playing the
penny slot machine and associating with a variety of local
riff(c)raff and no(c)accounts.
  An in(c)depth consultation with the Plaza head of security
revealed that they had been keeping a close eye on the
subject for the last two days.
  
  "He doesn't cause any real trouble, or anything," the
head honcho said, shrugging, "but everything about him
seems just a little strange, if you know what I mean."
  This comment seemed designed to elicit some sort of
response from the poker(c)faced men questioning him, but
they failed to respond, merely waiting for him to 
continue.
  "He buys ten dollars worth of pennies," and tips
the change lady a dollar. "He plays for hours on
end, also tipping the waitresses a dollar every
time they bring him a free beer. Hell, he even tips
the cleaning people when they clean his ashtray."
  The honcho shook his head, as if this type of
behavior from someone spending most of their time
playing the penny slots was puzzling and also
disconcerting.
  "Sleeps in his car, with his dog. Only leaves the
slot machines to feed, water, and run his dog around
our parking lot. It's kind of unnatural, the way he
seems to dote on that animal."ťś the security honcho
winked knowingly.

  "Has he met with anyone who doesn't usually 
frequent your casino?" one of the men asked,
impatiently, tired of hearing odd details of the
man's lifestyle which seemed intriguing to the
denziens of normality that they were constantly
having to interview in regard to the subject's
movement and activity.

  "He ran into some legal(c)eagle named Larry Joe,"
the honcho said, noting the first sign of interest
shown by his interrogators. "My second(c)shift security
chief says he's a middle(c)weight poker player, taking
part in a tournament at the Rio..." adding with a
knowing tone, "but the mouthpiece is hanging with
one of the heavy hitters on the local poker scene."

  "Larry Joe Dowling, an Austin attorney." one of
the interrogators said to the others. "He usuallyÜj
We'd better shift our surveillance team into
high gear."
  The man rose to leave, telling the others, "Dig
up all you can here, file a report, and get some
sleep. You're going to need it."


Boogers? We don't need no stinking boogers!:
  The agent pulled out his hanky and wiped the disgusting
mess off of his jacket sleeve.
  "I can't believe that they pulled us off of the
Tim May detail to check out this fucking loser."
  "Shit!" he screamed, as he brushed his arm against
the steering column and picked up another piece of
disgusting slime on his jacket sleeve.

  "I've shaken down this guy's personals before." the
man's partner said, with a grin. "That's why I gave
you the driver's side of the vehicle to check out."
  "He feeds his nose(c)candy to his dog, and he always
leaves her a little desert on the steering wheel
for her to chow down on after he brings her back
from her walk." He laughed as he saw the bile
rising to his new partner's throat.
  He couldn't help himself(c)(c)he reached over and
plucked a booker off of the horn button and told
his partner, "I'll trade you a green one for a
yellow one..."
  His partner lurched out of the vehicle and
concentrated on tossing his lunch while not messing
up his shiny new shoes.

  The more experienced agent finished snapping photos
of the gathered items and then replaced them carefully
in the same position they had been in before their
intrusion.
  "He usually walks Baby for about ten minutes, to 
give us time to make a complete pass of his vehicle,
so our time is about up." The agent closed and 
locked the doors of the vehicle, motioning his
green(c)faced partner toward their vehicle.


It's A Nuke! No, It's Anthrax! No, It's...AAARRGGGHHHH!!!":
  Justin Case, Special Agent in Charge of the current
investigation, was bothered by the fact that the suspect
had seemed to be doing nothing more than wandering around
various sites and casinos in Las Vegas, with no apparent
pattern or plan to his movement and actions. Until he
read the report of the suspect's lingering interest in
the placement of the columns serving as the foundation 
for the Stratosphere Casino, and the layout of the
preliminary work on the new Foley Federal BuildingÜj

  "Soft targets." agent Case said out loud, causing
a considerable amount of disconcertment to his fellow
agent, Bobby Siller.
  "Damn!" Siller swore, "We have reports of him having
met with Leavitt and Harris, but we didn't have any
taps on them, so we don't have any details of what
they are planning."

  "Don't worry about it," Case seemed unconcerned, "if
he's scouting soft targets, then he's not planning any
sudden moves."
  "Patience comes to those who wait." Justin Case said,
softly, quoting the Author, and making a mental note to
have agent Siller shake the Anthrax Twins down a few
days after the suspect departed Vegas.

  "Hold it!" agent Siller shouted, motioning for his
superior to remain silent, as Siller adjusted his
earpiece to more clearly hear the live report he was
receiving from his agents at the Riviera gun show.
  "The suspect went into the gun show empty handed,
and left with several copies of 'Gun List' and then
returned to his vehicle. He took his dog for a walk
and our agents discovered a 'Dalian' watch wrapped
in tear(c)outs from the firearms paper, dealing with
Romanian AK rifles and Bulgarian SLR(c)95's. The 
'Dalian' watch is some type of Polish/Chinese make,
or something."

  Justin Case rolled his eyes, but remained silent.
The suspect was yanking the chains of the agents who
were shaking down his personals, and it looked like
Siller's men didn't have the experience to know when
they were being toyed with.
  The agent that Case had pulled off of the Tim May
detail would be wise to the suspect's shenanigans,
but it was unlikely he would get in the way of
Siller's men making fools of themselves.

  "He's returning to the casino, using the copies
of 'Gun List' to hide whatever it is he's carrying."
agent Siller said, with great excitement.
  "I think we ought to take him in the parking 
garage, before he reaches the main building at the
Riviera." Siller anxiously awaited the word from
his superior.
  "Maintain." was Case's nonchalant reply, causing
Siller to have an ill(c)disguised internal shit(c)fit.
If this operation went totally to hell, it would
be Siller's ass on the line, being the Las Vegas
station chief.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC 
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 13:55:26 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Prologue 3a/0
Message-ID: <009C2718.5FE98460.15@west.cscwc.pima.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


SAHMD 3A
(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)(c)
  "Maintain," Siller told his agents, but couldn't help 
adding, "and disclose."
  This was a vague term meant to signal his men to 
intercept the suspect and do a bump(c)and(c)run on him
to sniff out what it was he was hiding(c)(c)without alerting
Siller's superior that his orders were being countermanded.

  "The Electronic Privacy Papers." agent Case said, to no
one in particular.
  "What?" Siller asked, perplexed.
  "Documents on the Battle for Privacy in the Age of
Surveillance, by Bruce Schneier and David Banisar,
ISBN: 0(c)471(c)12297(c)1."
  Much to agent Siller's consternation, his superior
continued, "That's what your men are going to discover
he is hiding furtively under those copies of the 'Gun
List' magazines when they disobey my orders and risk
blowing their cover."

  "It's the suspect's form of humor." Justin Case
smiled at his subordinate's discomfort.
  "He's laughing at all the spooks from various
agencies, including yours and mine, who are at the
gun show shadowing the Anthrax Twins, the Samsonite
Nuclear Warrior, and various members of the Loose(c)Screw
Gun Nut Club."
  Seeing the confused look on agent Siller's face, he
explained further. "The suspect is laughing because
he believes he is carrying the most dangerous weapon
available at the gun show."

  "And he's probably right..." Case said, with a far(c)
away look in his eyes that sent shivers down agent
Siller's spine.
  Special agent Justin Case took a tattered copy of
a paperback titled, "Paper Prison" out of his inside
jacket pocket, and stared at it(c)(c)lost in a universe
that belonged far in the past, but which seemed to
be intersecting the present in a manner which bode
nothing but ill for those who continued to live in
both.

  "The future is now..." Justin Case said, in a low
monotone voice that seemed to come from a world beyond
the one in which he and agent Siller were so diligently
pursuing the 'Threat of the Day'.

  "He's carrying a book." the voice came crackling
through Siller's earpiece.
  "Never mind." Siller said, adding, "Maintain."

  "Maintain." Siller repeated inwardly, to himself,Üj
crept up his spine and into the lower regions of
his mind as he observed the strange, semi(c)hypnotic
state that his superior had entered into.
  "Maintain."




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: JWRCLUM 
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 14:10:12 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Medical Privacy Alert  ---  please redistribute to all concerned
Message-ID: <476eb078.34f7399b@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


AMERICAN CIVIL LIBERTIES UNION OF MASSACHUSETTS
99 Chauncy Street, Suite 310, Boston, MA 02111
(617) 482-3170  Fax (617) 451-000


CONTACT:	John Roberts
(617) 482-3170     http://users.aol.com/mcluf/home.html

BENNETT-JEFFORDS BILL PLACES MEDICAL RECORD PRIVACY AT RISK

	The confidentiality of the doctor-patient relationship will be totally
undermined as medical records become widely available without patient
knowledge or consent.	

	BOSTON - February 27, 1998.   On Thursday 2/26/98 the United State Senate's
Labor and Human Resources Committee heard testimony concerning a bill proposed
by Senators Bennett and Jeffords that, if passed, would license the widespread
disclosure of personal medical information contained in files held by doctors,
hospitals, employers, educational institutions, and others.
	The bill which purports to be a privacy bill is, in fact, just the opposite.
It places virtually no restrictions on the disclosure of personal medical
records within health care entities (no matter how large and geographically
widespread) or to a long list of other entities and agencies including the
following:  
	-  any agents or contractors of the health care entities 
	-  Public Health Agencies, Oversight Agencies
	-  Health Care Accreditation Agencies
	-  State Health Care Databases
There are major loopholes in access provisions for
	-  Health Care Researchers
	-  "Outcome" analysts ("cost/benefit" analysts for hospitals, HMO's,
insurers, etc)
	
	Even law enforcement agencies will have easy access to browse computerized
medical record systems for so-called "legitimate" investigatory purposes.
This will make every American's medical record part of a new massive law
enforcement database.
	The bill will destroy the confidential "doctor-patient relationship" and
replace it with a new "patient-health care industry relationship."
	"This bill serves only the interests of the burgeoning health care industry,"
said John Roberts, Executive Director of the ACLU of Massachusetts.  "It
allows the transfer of your medical records to many entities that stand to
profit from its information.  Gone is doctor-patient confidentiality.  Your
doctor cannot protect your most sensitive medical information from many
entities outside your medical facility.  Even employers who have health plans
are considered 'health care providers' in the Bennett-Jeffords bill.  How many
of us want our employers to have access to any of our medical records without
our knowledge or consent?"  
	The bill will also
	-  Impose requirements that patients sign blanket consent forms for release
of information as a condition of getting treatment, even for self-pay patients
	- Redefine "treatment" to make the patient's record a subject of continuous
research
	- Blur the boundaries between individual patient care and the so-called
"Population Management" and "Disease System Management"
	The bill will pre-empt all state laws which may be more protective of the
confidentiality of medical records.
	The bill will not apply even its own minimal privacy protections to so-called
"non-identifiable" medical records information.  But...interestingly, the bill
also refers to issuing "keys" to re-identify previously purportedly "non-
identified" information.  A formal logical analysis of this reveals that the
bill itself admits that what it calls "nonidentifiable" medical record
information is actually identifiable (i.e. containing patient information).
	The ACLU of Massachusetts believes that what is really needed for medical
privacy protection would be the following:
	-  Federal law should set a foundation or floor of privacy protection
	-  State laws which are more-protective of patient's rights should not be
preempted 
	-  No "Unique Patient Identification Numbers"
	-  No electronic "linkage" of patient records stored in various sites
	-  Computerized patient records must be encrypted with keys provided only to
those directly involved in the individual patient care
	-  The right of the individual patient to contract directly with physicians
and health care providers regarding the privacy of the patient's medical
records.

	-end-




 

 






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 16:55:52 -0800 (PST)
To: merata@pearl.sums.ac.ir
Subject: With Respect to the Japanese
Message-ID: <34F75FD2.2084@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Friday 2/27/98 5:27 PM

Merat

After Sandia unloaded on me for TRYING to be friendly with a 
Japanese [and perhaps other things too] , I enrolled in the UNM 
US-Japan program.

One of the professors in the program is Jack Condon.

   name: John Carl Condon
   work_phone: 505 277-5811
   title: Professor
   organization: Communication & Journalism
   org_address: C & J Building

Condon teaches both at the University of New Mexico and
a Japanese University.

Condon is a very nice touchy-feely-type person.

Condon wrote [amazon.com]
                          
                            With Respect to the Japanese
                            by John C. Condon
                            List: $12.95
                            Our Price: $12.95

                            Availability: This title is currently on
back order. We do
                            not have a reprint date for this title, but
we expect to be
                            able to ship it to you within 3-5 weeks.

                            Paperback
                            Published by Intercultural Press
                            Publication date: June 1983
                            ISBN: 0933662491

Condon told our class,

   The US does not do very well without an enemy.

So.  Let's do OUR BEST to insure that that US does
not do very well, at least with Iran.

And Merat, another of my former Ph D students in Computer
Science is

   name: John Sobolewski
   work_phone: 505 277-8125
        title: Assoc VP,Info Technology
  organization: CIRT - Administration
  org_address: 2701 Campus Blvd NE
  email: jssob@unm.edu

Let's all hope this mess gets settled.

Best
bill

Title: UNM Computer and Information Resources and Technology (CIRT)













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The University of New Mexico
Albuquerque, New Mexico USA
Copyright (c) 1995 The University of New Mexico.




Title: Welcome to the Japan America Society of New Mexico










    
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Greetings and welcome to the Web site of
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and the Membership extend to you our desire that you visit the
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"chili-hot" welcome and hospitality shown here. The
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Friday February 27, 1998 3:15 PM


By e-mail and US mail

Lieutenant General Kenneth A Minihan, USAF
Director, National Security Agency
National Security Agency
9800 Savage Road
Fort George G. Meade, MD 20755-6000

Dear General Minihan:

Purposes of the letter are to

1  request information under the Freedom of Information Act
2  explore settlement possibilities of our current lawsuit.

In about 1986 Sandia National Laboratories assigned me the 
task of  design and construction of a Comprehensive Test Ban 
Treaty seismic data authenticator.

In the initial stages of the project, Sandia cryptographer 
Gustavus Simmons attempted to convince both Sandia 
management and NSA employees Tom White, Mark Unkenholtz,
and Ed Georgio that a form of public key authentication should 
replace NSA employee Ronald Benincasa's National Seismic
Station/Unmaned Seismic Observatory 11-bit data authentication
algorithm.

My Sandia supervisor John Holovka and project leader H B [Jim]
Durham ordered me to write a paper explaining public key 
cryptography.

This paper,  RSA ENCRYPTION, along with my SAND report
describing my implementation of Benincasa's algorithm and
filings in our lawsuit, now appear on Internet at
http://www.jya.com/index.htm, click CRYPTOME, then OpEd,
then http://www.jya.com/whprsa.htm.

Sandia explored the merits of switching from Benincasa's
algorithm to a public key-based authentication method suggested
by Simmons.

For Sandia's evaluation of the merits of public key, electronic tagging,
and Bureau of Engraving and Printing projects ,  I bought for Sandia 
samples both the Cylink CY1024 and AT&T A & B two chip sets for
modulo m arithmetic computations.

NSA employee Tom White sent me a copy of the SECRET classified
NSA report on IBM's hardware public key chip FIREFLY.

I wrote in my tutorial paper

  RSA hardware computations

  The slow speed of software RSA computations plus the potential
  wide use prompted several companies to build chips which compute
  modular arithmetic to at least several hundred bits.  Most of
  these chips "cascade" to compute with a larger number of bits.

  Corporations involved in building these chips are

     1  IBM  Firefly

     2  AT&T

     3  Motorola (apparently a three chip set)

     4  Cylink   Pittway-First alert

     5  Sandia Labs (Algorithm M and predecessor chip)

  Details of the IBM chip is classified.  AT&T as of July 1987 has
  not released details of their chip.  Little information is
  available on the Motorola chip set.

  The Cylink chip is commercially available.  Its price dropped
  from $1,500 to $600 each in June 1987.  Data is transferred to
  and from the chip with serial shift register communication.

  The early Sandia chip was limited in speed.  The replacement
  chip is cascadeable, communicates with 8 or 16 bits parallel,
  matches the speed of the Cylink chip, but is not out of
  fabrication.

  Rumors circulate that there is about an order of magnitude
  performance difference between some of these chips.

  These hardware chips improve exponentiation speed about 3 orders
  of magnitude over software implementation benchmarked on an Intel
  8086 family microcomputer.

Whitfield Diffie writes about both the Cylink and Sandia chips.  And
is quoted at  http://www.aci.net/kalliste/nukearse.htm.

Sandia had terrible luck with its public key chips.  

I reported SOME of the troubles to Electronic Engineering Times editor 
Loring Wirbel [http://techweb.cmp.com/eet/823/] on March 23, 1994.

        Dr. John Wisniewski was a supervisor at Sandia's Center for
        Radiation-hardened Microelectronics.  Wisniewski was a graduate
        student at Washington State University in about 1975.  I was a
        professor at WSU.

        Wisniewski knows all about the failing Sandia chips in the nuclear
        arsenal.  I took notes on February 13, 1993.  Wisniewski reviewed
        the problems again for me.

             1    No quality initiative.  Each chip lot had a different
                  process.
             2    Overall yield - 40-50%.  Down to 10% after packaging.
             3    Metalization problems.  No planarization.  No flow of
                  glass.  Couldn't use high temperature.  Step coverage
                  problems.  Layed down over tension.  100% field returns
                  over several years.
             4    Sandia would store lots of parts for replacements.

        Sandia management made the decision to place low yield parts in
        the nuclear arsenal.  Sandia must meet DOD schedules management
        reasoned.  Hundreds of millions spent on CRM.  Sandia must show
        productivity.

        Wisniewski told me that low yield chip test survivors are those   
        whichthe tests failed to detect failures.  Wisniewski will talk.  
        503-625-6408.  Wisniewski now works for Intel in Oregon.  Have 
        Wisniewski tell you about the fire in the CRM clean room!

Sandia supervisor Jerry Allen later told me it cost $300,000 each to remove
Sandia's failing chips at Pantex from a nuclear bomb.

NSA apparently is biased toward hardware implementations of cryptographic
and authentication algorithms.  As opposed to software implementation.

NSA representatives and Sandia management decided not to use a public
key authentication scheme for its CTBT seismic data authenticator because
of all of the problems with implementing public key algorithms.

But NSA surely has spent MUCH MONEY on public key chip implementations.

NSA is promoting its Clipper crypto chips as described at 
http://cpsr.org/dox/clipper.html.

And we get some information about technical specifications of NSA's Clipper
chip at http://www.us.net/softwar/http://www.us.net/softwar/clip.html

  Clipper Chip Information

  MYK-78 CLIPPER CHIP ENCRYPTION/DECRYPTION  ON A CHIP 

     1 micron double level metal CMOS technology 
     0.35 watts power 
     28 pin plastic leaded chip carrier (PLCC) package 
     Transistor to transistor logic (TTL) interface 
     Chip ID, family key and device unique key are installed at 
     programming. 
     Chip ID, family key and device unique key are installed at programming           
     facility and are completely transparent to the user.

Therefore, Under the provision of the Freedom of Information Act, 
5 USC 552, I am requesting access to: 

1  Copies of all invoices from

	A   AT&T
	B   Motorola
	C   IBM
	D  Sandia National Laboratories

to NSA for payments for developing ANY public key-related chips between 
January 1, 1980 and February 27, 1998.

2  Copies of all invoices to NSA from ANY corporation involved in 
development
of ANY Clipper chip-related hardware between January 1, 1980 and 
February 27, 1998.

The public has a right to know how much NSA spent on TRYING monoploize the 
crypto business.

If there are any fees for searching for, or copying, the records I have 
requested, please inform me before you fill the request.

As you know, the Act permits you to reduce or waive the fees when the 
release of the information is considered as "primarily benefiting the 
public."
  
I believe that this requests fits that category and I therefore ask that 
you waive any fees.

If all or any part of this request is denied, please cite the specific 
exemption(s) which you think justifies your refusal to release the information and inform me of your agency's administrative appeal procedures available to me under the law.

I would appreciate your handling this request as quickly as possible, and I 
look forward to hearing from you within 20 working days, as the law stipulates.

With respect to our current FOIA lawsuit, I feel that we should settle this
unfortunate matter.

I see from your biography at  http://www.nsa.gov:8080/ and
http://www.nsa.gov:8080/dirnsa/dirnsa.html that you are

         1979   Distinguished Graduate
         Master of Arts degree in National Security Affairs 
         Naval Postgraduate School 
         Monterey, California

One of my former M.S. and Ph.D students in Computer Science,
Ted Lewis, is currently the chairman of Computer Science at
Naval Postgraduate School [http://www.friction-free-economy.com/].

Small world.

But I think that this emphasizes that WE SHOULD all be on the same side.
Not engaged in a conflict in US federal court.  Or on Internet.

NSA attempts to withhold requested information are possibly unwise.  

In our wired world the aggrieved know what happened to them.
[http://www.aci.net/kalliste/speccoll.htm]. http://www.wpiran.org/,
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/impact/namir/namirm.html

And moderates in Iran, [http://persia.org/khatami/biography.html], appear 
want settlement too.

My family and I have been damaged by these crypto wars.

I ask you that consider fair settlement of damages caused by the National
Security Agency.

I cannot find your e-mail address on Internet.

Therefore I will forward the e-mail copy of this FOIA/settlement letter to 
Ray Kammer of NIST [http://www.nist.gov/], who along with the FBI 
[http://www.fbi.gov/, http://www.fbi.gov/fo/nyfo/nytwa.htmand], and NSA 
are trying to control the crypto business so that Kammer can possibly
forward an e-mail copy of the FOIA/Settlement letter to you.

Sincerely,

bill

William Payne
13015 Calle de Sandias
Albuquerque, NM 87111
505-292-7037 [I am not reading e-mail]




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: carol.a1@usa.net
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 19:05:24 -0800 (PST)
To: carol.a1@usa.net
Subject: Attraction
Message-ID: <0000000000.AAA000@usa.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Do you want to succeed at dating, or you just need a little spark to your
relationship or marriage?

Well here is the Answer for you!

Sensations., the new Compact Disc that  uses proven subliminal techniques to
increase your chances of SEXUAL success with the opposite sex.. Simply play it
and watch it work!!!!

do you want to be a winner?   

If yes then go to http://207.134.166.10/users/subliminal/subliminal.htm






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 00:28:38 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: FC: Quotes of the Day (and cybercrime)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980228002208.008eb7d0@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


James Glave's Wired News article at
	http://www.wired.com/news/news/technology/story/10605.html
is nice, especially the quote from Peter Neumann about how this
may be a con game by Janet Reno to get more budget.  After all,
the Feds has been doing computer security for a while, though
not with the expertise of the NSA.  So if they're so hot,
why do they keep getting cracked so badly, and on such critical stuff
as payroll data, which in the government is almost certain to include SSNs?
There's already a National Computer Security Center - she could
ask them for help, rather than starting a competing one.

>LIVERMORE, Calif. (AP) - To combat the threat of cyber attack, Attorney
>General Janet Reno said Friday a new high-tech crime center will be
>created under the jurisdiction of the FBI.
...
>	Reno played down the Big Brother aspects of an Internet police
>force.
>	"We must not and we will not sacrifice any constitutional
>protections," the attorney general said.

				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: awsales@www.a-world.com
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 22:35:14 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Your #1 place for computer hardware and software deals!
Message-ID: <199802280636.BAA26562@out.a-world.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



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If you would like to be removed from our special promotional list,
please reply to this email with only the word 'unsubscribe' as the subject heading.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ekkoh1 
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 08:12:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: WARNING!
Message-ID: <3557c8ad.34f8053e@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Warning! You're about to see something great!  If you are interested, visit
this web site....

http://207.36.85.71




or click here!




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 05:14:54 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Radio Frequency Warfare Hearing
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980228131755.00718780@pop.pipeline.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


We offer the lengthy prepared testimony at the Joint 
Economic Committee hearing February 25 on "Radio Frequency 
Weapons and Proliferation: Potential Impact on the Economy."

  http://jya.com/rfw-jec.htm  (112K)

Or zipped:

  http://jya.com/rfw-jec.zip (39K)

It provides descriptions of the RF weapons, their 
development, research and testing, global spread, and 
threat to the infrastructure and national security.

The Internet availability of Carlo Kopp's paper on the 
E-bomb and similar RFW information is cited as evidence 
of the spread of the threatening technology.

The hearing evolved from JEC hearing testimony in 
June 1997 which described the threat from RFW,
especially that developed by the Former Soviet Union:

  Magnetohydrodynamic Generator Frequency (MHDGF)
  Explosive Magnetic Generator of Frequency (EMGF)
  Implosive Magnetic Generator of Frequency (IMGF)
  Cylindrical Shock Wave Source (CSWS)
  Spherical Shock Wave Source (SSWS)
  Ferromagnetic Generator of Frequency (FMGF)
  Superconductive Former of Magnetic Field Shock Wave (SFMFSW)
  Piezoelectric Generator of Frequency (PEGF)
  Superconducting Ring Burst Generator (SCRBG)






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 05:38:57 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Backyard RF Weapon
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980228134202.006d0960@pop.pipeline.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Excerpt from congressional hearing on RF weapons:

      Mr. David Schriner is the Principal Engineer directed energy studies 
with Electronic Warfare Associates and a recently retired engineer with the 
naval weapons testing facility at China Lake. He has numerous patents, has
received superior service awards, and given technical presentations over 42 
years of civil and military service. He will discuss the difficulty in 
building a RF weapon and the terrorist threat.

[Excerpt]

      In support of the information presented in this testimony and taking 
advantage of the winter's need to work indoors, a unit that uses oil spark-gaps 
was designed, built, and tested. The materials for it were mail-ordered at a
cost of about $500 and about one week was needed to fabricate the mechanical 
hardware. It use two ignition coils and a battery for power, an automobile fuel 
pump and filter for the oil circulation, and commonly available transformer
oil. 
An additional week was required to work out all of the electrical wiring, the 
oil lines, and the general finishing details. This unit was ready for testing 
in two weeks after starting the effort. 

      The signal radiated from the unit was measured and found to be a very 
significant power level that can be compared against available vulnerability
and 
susceptibility levels of military equipment. When the weather permits, this
unit 
will be tested against a set of infrastructure targets at an official test
range. 
>From the measurements and known signal levels, this unit is expected to be 
consistently deadly to many types of infrastructure items at ranges suitable
for 
terrorist usage. 

      This quickly-developed low-cost system could easily be placed in a small 
van and used in a parking lot or directed at buildings that the van was driven 
past. It is highly likely that this type of device would be a very effective 
terrorist system and the findings of its design could be factored into another 
either a larger, higher powered device, or a more advanced design each with 
significantly greater effectiveness. 

      The net result of all of this design, experimentation, fabrication and 
measurement proves that such a weapon system could be made by anyone with an 
engineering degree or even a bright technician with good hardware experience. 
The technical information required can be found in open sources, if not just 
from good common engineering sense. The materials needed are nothing special
and 
if the effort is made, advanced concepts can be made using everyday hardware
such 
as automotive ignition systems. The testing to date has been very limited but
the results of this testing have provided considerable insight to just what is 
vulnerable in infrastructure systems. This insight and work leads to a firm 
opinion that a terrorist would have little trouble developing such technology
and that he would have a high probability of success in the use as an RF weapon 
against our infrastructure elements found in any city or near facilities around 
the country. 

      This work has been done within the proper security guidelines since: 

      1.The models made in my home laboratory/workshop used off-the-shelf
materials 
        and open-source references.
      2.The laboratory tests of this hardware were made in a controlled
environment 
        with the proper security in place.
      3.The results of these tests, the data capabilities, and the target set 
        identities are kept in a facility cleared for classified storage.
      4.The development of any of this hardware is reported on a regular
basis to 
        those with whom I relate at a classified level to assure that they are 
        informed of the work and are able to apply this to their interests and 
        efforts if necessary. Any of this hardware can be used by them for any
        determination of utility to military interests. 

      Work in this area will be continued and an aggressive test and
evaluation of 
these "back yard" techniques and methods will be accomplished. This process
will be 
done in cooperation, and if requested, under the direction of agencies with an 
interest in this non-military weapon related process. The author of this
report will, 
if requested, provide to the Committee further details at a classified level
in the 
proper security environment. 

-----

Full hearing testimony: http://jya.com/rfw-jec.htm





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: VG2Hot 
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 12:58:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Well here it is...
Message-ID: <8cd785f9.34f82c14@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


   This really is a blast.  With all these movies coming out about virtual
reality, it's amazing to actually have a virtual reality program like this 
for your own computer.

   The Virtual Girlfriend and Virtual Boyfriend are artificial intelligence
programs for your IBM PC or compatible and also for MACINTOSH. You 
can watch them, talk to them, ask them questions, tell them secrets, and 
relate with them.  Watch them as you ask them to take off different clothes
and guide them through many different activities.  Watch and participate 
in the hottest sexual activities available on computer, including: several
sexual positions, using many unique toys, even bringing in multiple partners.
This is no doubt one of the most realistic, sexually stimulating computer
games available.  They will remember your name, birthday, your likes and 
your dislikes.  Every time you start the program, they say different things, 
and act differently.  Each time, they have a different personality. With the 
VGA digital graphics, the Virtual Girlfriend and Virtual Boyfriend software 
have some of the hottest, sexiest graphics out there.  You can actually 
hear their voice as they talk to you.  This is the first adult software title
that was designed for both heterosexual and homosexual people.  We
would like you to try the actual full copy out before it is put on the market
this spring. It will be sold for 1/7 of the actual price (only $7.95) until we
can get back some information on what people think of the program before
it hits the stores.  Please give it a try and write back any comments.
   Thank you.


     Virtual Girlfriend and Virtual Boyfriend are artificial intelligence 
programs, meaning they are completely interactive.  It would be just like 
if you were talking to someone.  You can actually have simple 
conversations.  Their attitudes change with the different things you say, 
so you can say things that will upset them, and then say things that will 
please them.  The more you play/talk with them, the more you learn what 
they can do, and what they like to do.  It's easy to install and instructions
are easy to follow.

         ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Special Offer~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
       *Get two more new and exciting adult games for an additional $13.45*
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                          Here are two of the best adult games ever!!

     This is to inform you about the new adult game that VCS Magazine
rated "The best game of "97" and gave an "Outstanding ****" (4 stars).
"The Search for Paradise is no doubt one of the greatest XXX adult games 
available".  The first game where it is as much fun as it is a turn on!
Travel the world to every continent, every country you can think of, and meet
some of the most beautiful women in existence.  These women will treat 
you like a king and obey your every command.  Any sexual wish you can 
think of,  these women know it all.  There is a certain paradise for every
guy out there, and this game will have them all.  This game uses real 
models, digital video, and digital sound to make it as realistic as possible.
You will feel like you're in the same room as the girl you're talking to!!!

     The last adult game we are going to inform you about is the newly
released "Club Celebrity X".  Imagine being in a club with some very 
beautiful, well known, ACTUAL celebrities that with skill, will be making 
you breakfast in bed the next day.  These girls you have seen on television,
magazines, and billboard ads, and now they are on your computer, begging
for action.  Each girl you will recognize and you won't believe your eyes 
when you got them in your own bedroom.  This game is hot, and once you
start playing, you won't be able to stop.  
******************************************************************************
**********
                                (((((((((LIMITED TIME ONLY))))))))
T00 H0T!!  for Virtual girlfriend.... These were too sexually graphic to
include in VG and VB.  These are some of most 
arousing & attractive models ever put in one collection.  You MUST be 18 or 
over to purchase & not easily offened.

******************************************************************************
***********                                             
*Required: 386 or better, 4 meg ram or better, Windows 3.1 or higher 
(Win95 is fine), sound card or CD-rom are optional.  Games are given 
either on CD-rom or compressed 3.5" diskettes.  Required is VGA graphics, 
and a hard drive.  Macintosh requires at least 4 meg of ram.  They will run 
on any IBM or MACINTOSH compatible.  If you are interested and would 
like to order a copy, then you can read the mailing instructions below.  
Games come in an unmarked package and are sent out at most 4 days 
after the order is received.  You are not put on any mailing lists
whatsoever, guaranteed.  ~At your request, the programs can come with
a password protection utility that only allows the program to run when the
correct password is entered.~


To order, 
      please send to:             
                                        C&M PROMOTIONS
                                         6185 Magnolia Ave.
                                             Suite# 360
                                       Riverside CA, 92506
                                    Phone # 1-888-341-1643 

        Please fill out the following form and mail it to the address above.  
              (Feel free to write out the order form by hand, if you wish).
      ________________________________________________________
   __________________________ (Cut here)_________________________

                   send to:             C&M Promotions
                                      6185 Magnolia Ave. #360
                                          Riverside CA, 92506


Your Name __________________________________ Date ___________

Address _____________________________________________________

City ____________________________ State ___ Zip Code ____________

Phones: Home  ___________________E-mail Address _______________

Do you use a?  IBM__  MACINTOSH __
Would you like? 3.5 Disks__ CD ROM__ 
 
(   ) Virtual
Girlfriend..............................................................$7.95
(   ) Virtual
Boyfriend.............................................................$7.95
(   ) Both Virtual Girlfriend and
Boyfriend................................$13.95
(   ) The Search for Paradise & Club Celebrity X......................$13.45
(   ) Too HOT for VG &
VB....................................................$17.50
(   ) Everything!!! The Search for Paradise, Club Celebrity X 
      and Virtual Girlfriend and Virtual
Boyfriend.......................$21.90

                                                             (ADD)
S&H.......$2.00

*money order or check*                        Amount enclosed?________


~Please indicate year of birth___________

Code:3785






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 12:05:27 -0800 (PST)
To: Michael Elder 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 11:18 AM -0800 2/28/98, Michael Elder wrote:
>>From the NY Times online (www.nytmes.com)
>Hewlett-Packard Granted License
>For Encryption System
>
>By PETER WAYNER

>known as a Security Domain Authority or SDA. In countries, like France,
>that require people to keep a record of keys for unlocking data, the SDA
>would only allow the computers to encrypt information if it complied with
>the laws. In countries with no laws about encryption usage like the United
>States, Germany and Great Britain, the SDA would allow users to encrypt in
>whatever manner they choose.

Until, of course, the U.S. changes its policy.

A constant danger with any of these "solutions" is that they make later
imposition of controls so much easier. Consider the implications of
widespread deployment of the HP-type system (which, BTW, I don't think will
happen in the U.S., or elsewhere).

A simple change in the law and all new tokens (and they must be renewed
yearly, so says HP) will implement the new law.

The camel's nose in the tent strategy.

The HP/IBM product is perniciously evil and should be fought with all
technical and memetic means.

--Tim May

Just Say No to "Big Brother Inside"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^3,021,377   | black markets, collapse of governments.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: BBopper 
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 09:25:55 -0800 (PST)
To: kirstenk@earthlink.com
Subject: Fwd: Party Invitation
Message-ID: <296051a0.34f84790@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



To: "'bbopper@aol.com'" 
Subject: Party Invitation
From: "Steer, Dave" 
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 16:51:45 -0600
Return-Receipt-To: "Steer, Dave" 

> **** KEEP READING -- YOU DON'T WANT TO MISS THIS PARTY!!****
> 
> 
> Join us for the first annual 
> 
> Fleishman-Hillard 
> Technology Practice 'IPO' -- Internet Party Offering
>  
> during Spring Internet World in Los Angeles
> 
> It's happening at Billboard Live on Sunset Boulevard in West Hollywood
> on Tuesday, March 10th from 7:00-11:00 PM
> 
> We've invited our favorite industry bands Where's Julio? (featuring
> founders of Excite) and The Flying Other Brothers, and a couple
> hundred of our friends, colleagues, soulmates and supporters (that
> means YOU) for a night of music, food & drink.  
> 
> Please RSVP by March 6th to Robert Delgado
> (email:delgador@fleishman.com or phone: 415/356-1034), and let us know
> where to snailmail your entry ticket.  
> YOU MUST HAVE AN ENTRY TICKET TO GET IN!!!
> 
> We will also provide shuttle transportation to the party from the Omni
> Hotel in downtown L.A. at 6:30 PM.  Just let us know if you think
> you'll be taking it!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
************
Dave Steer
Fleishman-Hillard/SF
595 Market Street, #2700
San Francisco, CA  94105
415/356.1024
steerd@fleishman.com
*************




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Elder 
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 11:21:36 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: HP Crypto Export
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980228141822.006aee98@descartes.coker.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>From the NY Times online (www.nytmes.com)

February 28, 1998




Hewlett-Packard Granted License
For Encryption System 

By PETER WAYNER 

The Commerce Department has granted Hewlett-Packard an export license for
its VerSecure encryption architecture allowing the company and its
licensees to export strong encryption tools, the company announced Friday.
The catch is that the products must take their orders from a central
computer system that will dictate how all the products will behave in each
country. 

The company hopes that the solution would break the deadlock between the
Clinton Administration, which continues to restrict the export of secure
computer technology throughout the world, and the computer industry, which
contends that foreigners are not interested in buying products that don't
protect their secrets. 

The new solution effectively disconnects the problem of distributing
encryption technology from the process of determining the policy for
government access to information. The heart is a new class of trusted
hardware cards and chips that take their orders from a central company
known as a Security Domain Authority or SDA. In countries, like France,
that require people to keep a record of keys for unlocking data, the SDA
would only allow the computers to encrypt information if it complied with
the laws. In countries with no laws about encryption usage like the United
States, Germany and Great Britain, the SDA would allow users to encrypt in
whatever manner they choose. 



------------------------------------------------------------------------
"It is very hardware-specific with the flexibility of software and that
gives us a lot of strength in terms of tamper resistance" 

Feisal Mosleh, 
business development manager at Hewlett-Packard 


------------------------------------------------------------------------



Hewlett-Packard sees the solution as a win for the industry, which will be
able to build one set of hardware and software that can be shipped
throughout the world. The SDA's will set the local rules because the
computers will not encrypt information without first getting permission
from the SDA.

Doug McGowan, one of the director of Hewlett-Packard's efforts, said in a
telephone interview, "Never before has a general purpose cryptography tool
been exportable from the United States, with or without key recovery. We're
opening a huge market for American industry to enable commerce on a
worldwide basis." 

The price for this flexibility is the need for specialized hardware that
treats the SDA as its master. In an ordinary computer, the owner can
control all aspects of what the computer does. This extra hardware will
raise the price of machines and is bound to be more expensive than software
which can be distributed at minimal cost. 

Feisal Mosleh, a business development manager at Hewlett-Packard, pointed
out that specialized hardware can offer faster performance and more
security. "It is very hardware-specific with the flexibility of software
and that gives us a lot of strength in terms of tamper resistance" he said
in a phone interview.

Many security experts continue to point out that general-use microcomputers
and their operating systems are dangerously insecure. In one recent attack,
hackers were able to begin transfers from a bank account by manipulating
accounting software. Off-loading the process to specialized hardware makes
it simpler to ensure that the system is secure because the special hardware
has only one job.

Hewlett-Packard says that it is licensing the architecture to a number of
different computer vendors and announced that IBM, Motorola, CertCo,
Trusted Information System, Microsoft and RSA Data Securities had already
signed licenses. The vendors will be free to choose how they implement the
special computer hardware, but most will probably use firmware with an
embedded microprocessor. The initial version will reportedly include DES,
triple-DES, RSA, RC2, RC4 and Diffie-Hellman algorithms. Each of these
solutions can be sped up by specialized hardware, but only a general
microprocessor can handle all of them with equal agility. 

The specialized hardware will also be tamper-proof to prevent people from
circumventing the commands of the SDA. When an encryption card is first
started up, it cannot begin working until it has received instructions from
an SDA in its country. This information is contained in a "policy token."
Joe Beyers, general manager of Hewlett-Packard's Internet Software business
unit, explained, "The token says, 'You can use this amount of key, this
amount of strength for this amount of time.'"

Beyers went on to say, "The aspect of time allows the government to evolve
their policy. Time limits are one of the attributes that made it attractive
to the U.S. government." It would be possible for a government to change
policy with the system from time to time, perhaps forcing citizens to use
long keys in time of war to protect themselves and then relaxing the policy
after peace emerged. 

In the current plan, policy tokens would be good for one year, forcing
computers to re-register with an SDA in order to keep working. The SDA
would have no control of a token after it was issued and would only be able
to change policies at the renewal. 

The relationship between the SDA and the key recovery program is more
difficult to describe. The SDA would not keep any records of any keys that
would allow the police to eavesdrop on calls. But the policy tokens would
force the embedded hardware to obey the local laws that might include key
recovery. The FBI has asked Congress to mandate key recovery systems that
give it clear access to all communications. 

The yearly interrogation between the SDA and the individual computers does
not mean that the system will be foolproof. Someone could simply carry a
laptop from a country that allows personal privacy to a country with more
invasive laws and use it freely until the policy token runs out. Also, it
may be possible to spoof the token authorization procedure by pretending
that the request came from one country instead of another. 

Some critics found the use of special hardware to be problematic. Jim
Lucier, a policy analyst for the Americans for Tax Reform, a Republican
think tank, pointed out that specialized hardware was ignored by the
marketplace in the past. "None of it ever works" he said, "because the more
obvious solution, which is end-to-end encryption, is already there."

Lucier also pointed out that specialized hardware is more complicated to
engineer and much more expensive to distribute than software. "Atoms cost
more than bits, it just comes down to that," he said. In a press conference
Friday morning, Beyers promised that the new hardware was "months, not
years away" and also promised that the hardware costs would be as low as
possible. 

Marc Rotenberg, director of the Electronic Privacy Information Center,
suggested that replacing the current export control bureaucracy with a
network of SDA's was not a significant advance. "Government efforts to
regulate crypto will only slow the development of commerce," he said.

In fact, the decision by the United States government to grant a license to
Hewlett-Packard's architecture is far from liberating. Companies making
VerSecure products can only ship them to countries approved by the United
States government, a list which at this time is limited to the United
Kingdom, Germany, France, Denmark and Australia. More countries will become
open if and when they create an SDA infrastructure that is acceptable to
the United States. 

Hewlett-Packard has gone to great lengths to prevent rogue nations from
setting up their own unauthorized SDA's by cloning hardware. The
infrastructure uses CertCo's secure certificate servers to restrict the
ability to create the software necessary to build the tokens. Beyers says
that no one person at Hewlett-Packard has the ability to do this in order
to reduce the potential for corruption and theft.

Hewlett-Packard is also working heavily with foreign countries to assure
them that the system does not include back doors that might be accessible
by the United States government. Beyers said that the company had retained
an international group of cryptographic experts to vet the system and allay
any fears of hidden back doors. 

A press release from Hewlett-Packard quoted William A. Reinsch,
undersecretary of commerce, as saying, "We are pleased to support HP's
effort to develop and market encryption products that encourage the use of
key recovery in providing robust, secure encryption. This approval and our
ongoing dialogue with the industry are consistent with the Clinton
Administration's goal of allowing the market to develop recoverable
encryption products."

Peter Wayner at pwayner@nytimes.com welcomes your comments and suggestions.


Copyright 1998 The New York Times Company 












From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC 
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 14:10:38 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: SAHMD 4/0
Message-ID: <009C27DF.0E08A460.45@west.cscwc.pima.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Prologue 4/0 SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS
---------------------------------------

A Nuclear Bullet, With *Everyone's* Name On It:
  [Your Name Here]


Excerpt from an interview with Marilyn Manson on NPR:
MM: A lot of the lies spread by Fundamentalist Christians
   about our tour were believed by people because they 
   read them on the InterNet.
    The InterNet is the CB Radio of the 90's. People perceive
   it as a legitimate news source, which it's not.
    Eventually there will need to be some sort of laws or
   something...


Top Ten Ways To Convince The Sheeple The Revolution Is NOW:
10,9,8,.7,6,5,4,3,2...
1. Put Marilyn Manson's name on the first bullet.


"Give me nuclear freedom, or give me death."
~ Patrick Hussein


The TRUTH About Area 51:
  It's a resort-spa for the reptilian Nazis who are shaping
our present and our future, preparing to rule all of mankind
when they emerge from the underground bunkers beneath Los Alamos,
Livermore, Colorado Springs, Muleshoe, Texas, etc., at the end
of the Milleniuum.
  Why can't you buy a straight 2"x4" anymore? The reptilian Nazis
are keeping all of the good stuff for themselves. The reason for
the tight security at Area 51 is not because of secret spy-planes
and the like. The reptilian Nazi's don't want us to know that
they are all driving '56 Chevy's. (Their original plan was to
have earthlings all driving Edsels, but they tried to implement
the plan before their mind-control experiments had proven 
successful.)


Who It Is OK To Put A Fucking Bullet Through Their Head:

Officially Recognized Bad Guys--For the Sheeple, this is Saddam
  Hussein, Timothy McVeigh, Dennis Rodman, paramilitarists, 
  grandmothers who plug other people's parking meters, Branch
  Davidians (but it's a shame about the children), and The 
  Subject Of A Ten-Second Sound-Byte To Be Named Later.
  For Republicans, this is welfare cheats, the homeless, tax
  cheats making less than $100,000 per year, liberals, Ralph
  Nadar, CypherPunks, Alt2600 avocados, the 4 Horsemen, and
  anyone who looks like me.
  For the Democrats, this is the non-avant-guarde wealthy,\j
  liberals consume, Rush Limbaugh, Republican presidents, 
  rednecks, people who drink water straight out of the tap,
  and anyone who looks like me.
  For Kris Kristofferson, this is "People doing something
  dirty, decent folks can frown on..."


"Sunshine is the best disinfectant."
~ Supreme Court Justice Louis D. Brandeis, 1928

"Bullet holes let the sun shine in."
~ Supreme Asshole TruthMonger, 1998


When Existence Is Outlawed, Only Outlaws Will Exist:
  The revolution is now.
  The only question that those who have the balls to
participate in the inevitable chaos which will be needed
to balance the Tao against the current onslaught of
digitally structured reality that is being forced upon
humanity by the new technology being promoted by the
pawns of the reptilian Nazis whose headquarters is deep
within the confines of the AdamAntarctic is: "Whose brain
do I put my first bullet through?"

  For many, the answer will be, "TruthMonger!"
  Nobody likes to hear the truth, and the truth is: We
all deserve to die.
  Not only that, but the extinction of humanity, according
to our current values, epitomizes the crowning glory of
our evolutionary path.

  What places us *above* the other primates and the other
forms of life on our planet? What is it that makes us
special, that deems us worthy of ruling over all other
life forms on the planet Earth?
  It is our ability to control; our ability to master
our environment and the objects and life-forms contained
within its bounds. Ultimately, it is our ability to *kill*
whatever stands in the way of the fulfillment of our desires
and our goals.
  For all of our soul-searching, spiritual posturing, deep
down inside we all know that we live in a predatorial 
universe. Republicans cry out for bigger guns to defend
our way of life from everyone who fails to salute the flag.
Democrats cry out for the press and political leaders to
invent enemies to justify the liberals crying out for
bigger guns to protect us from the 'bad guys.'
  And it's all bullshit...

  The reason we need to launch wars and destroy our
environment is to keep the price of our refrigerators
and our color TV's reasonable--to keep the price of the
dollar high enough that we can feel good about ourselves
for saving a starving child for less than ten cents a day,
while ignoring the fact that an obese Sally Fields could
save more starving children in a week than we possibly 
could in a lifetime, just by donating one of her lunches
to the charity she is promoting.


Think About This, You Stupid Fucking Bastards:
  Why do we need to allow our basic human rights and
freedoms to be compromised?: In order for our hallowed
leaders and our protectors in the law enforcement
community to adequately protect us from the 'bad guys.'
  Why do we need to be protected from the 'bad guys'?:
Because if they win out over the 'good guys', they 
will take away our basic human rights and freedoms.


The Reason TruthMonger Will Die Broke And Alone:
  Because he invested all of his money in ClueServers,
believing that the Sheeple might one day find them
to be of value.

"TV Is Real! (Just go back to sleep, dear.)"





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC 
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 14:12:10 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: SAHMD 5/0
Message-ID: <009C27DF.62CAA3E0.49@west.cscwc.pima.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Prologue 5/0
-------------

The Story Thus Far:
  (Or so we would have you believe...)


It is now commonly known that:
  American overt and covert spook agencies of one sort or 
another monitor--legally and illegally--almost all of
the electronic communications in the world.
  American overt and covert spook agencies, legally and
illegally make and break the finances of nations and
corporations around the world.
  Overt and covert spook agencies of other nations do
exactly the same thing, on differing scales.

  Internationally powerful financial agencies, groups
and individuals make daily decisions affecting the lives
of individuals, societies and nations, based on the
desires and goals of individuals who are above and beyond
the control of any nation or group of nations.
  Joe and Jane Sheeple are not privy to information as
to who, exactly, these people are, or what their ultimate
designs are for our future.

  Human rights and freedoms, throughout the world, are
contingent upon heavily armed governments allowing us
those rights and freedoms which they perceive to be
in our best overall interest.
  Those heavily armed governments are increasingly 
acting in concert with one another, dividing up our
finances, property and our human rights among themselves
at the slightest whim.


If It Prevents Just A Single Starving Biafran Child
>From Exposure To A Picture Of A Naked Breast...:
  This is why 'Higher Authority' (government, business,
a person with a large wallet or a large gun) feels compelled
to 'serve and protect' the Sheeple.
  Of course, this all comes at a cost...

  Own your own home? Bullshit!
  I don't care if you paid cash and have clear title--if you
fail to pay property taxes to men with guns who say that you
*have* to, then you are out on the street, tomorrow.

  Growing organic vegetables? Bullshit!
  Unless you have proper state certification, after having
filled in the mountains of documentation and paid numerous
filing fees, registration fees, incremental fees and 
excremental fees, as well as having paid for a mountain
of testing by an independent (government approved) laboratory, thenyour sorry ass is going to jail if you whisper the word 
"organic" in your sleep.

  Do you have a name? Bullshit!
  I don't care what you call yourself, what your momma calls
you, or what name is on your birth certificate, you are a 
number, and you goddamn well better *have* that fucking
number ready if you want to drive a car, cross the street,
make a purchase, sell something, stand in line to get a
number, or breathe.

NEWS FLASH!!!
[Author's Note: You may want to skip the next paragraph,
 if you have a weak heart, or have suicidal tendencies,
 because it speaks a truth that is too ugly for most of
 us to face, even in the best of times.]
  The ONLY time that the powers-that-be recognize you as
a unique individual with a personality, character and a
history, is when they want to USE you, or FUCK you.

  Trust me, you don't really want to think about this
too much, unless you are prepared to face the truth,
because the more you think about it, the more obviously
true it becomes.
  
  The information you are required to provide in applying
for a driver's license--picture, height, weight, race,
hair and eye color--is for the purpose of connecting you,
and only you, to the number on the license.

  Contributed to Social Security all of your life, and now
you are entitled to collect?
  If you have the wrong numnber, Fuck You! If the government
has misplaced your number, Fuck You! If the government is
using a new numbering system, Fuck You!
  Your name is Joe Sheeple, and you worked at the same job
all of your life, and your employer, your family and your
CongressPerson can all attest to the fact that you paid
your share of SS each and every week, and you are now
old enough to retire? Fuck you! Got a number?

  You are a number. Your number is used to categorize
your position and status in life for use by the government
and business during your journey from the cradle to the
grave.

  Fought for your country in the Gulf War? Picked up some
sort of exotic disease or disability?
  Spare me the detail, pal. It doesn't matter how hard you
fought, how valiantly you risked your life, how many kids
you have to feed, what sort of medical history you can
provide about yourself before, during and after the event.
  Your number gets lumped in with the other numbers who
got sick or disabled, and then the number-crunchers decide
if the country you defended can afford for you all to
be sick and disabled.
  Sorry, pal, but the figures are too high. So you
and all of the other numbers get a big, group,
Fuck You!

  You are a number.
  Trust me on this. If you can't trust 608-335-345, then
who *can* you trust?




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC 
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 14:14:02 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: SAHMD 6/0
Message-ID: <009C27DF.BE4A6840.53@west.cscwc.pima.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


PROLOGUE 6/0 -- SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS
------------------------------------------

Wasting (Everyone) Away In Mongeritaville:
  A man with a gun came to my door recently, and demanded
that I pony-up thirty dollars to members of his gang's
protection racket. If I refuse to pay, he will be back
with other armed thugs.
  If I resist them, they will kill me.

  Sure, when they drag me in front of one of the big
bosses in their protection racket, I can try to talk
them out of robbing and/or killing me, but it will
inevitably end up with Frank Moretti telling Al Capone,
"If we let this schmuck walk away without ponying-up,
then how are we going to keep the others in line."
  In the end, I either pay up or die. 

  It's all because of my dog...
  "Dog running at large." That's what the first threatening
message from the Town of Bienfait said.
  "Voluntary fine." It also said that--with a veiled hint
that if I refused to 'do the right thing', that I might
find myself having a little 'trouble'.

  I had an uncle who found himself forced to deal with these
kind of thugs when he had a small shop on the bad side of
the tracks in a big city. Then he moved to the 'good side 
of town' and found out that the only difference was that
the vigorish was higher, and the thugs were better dressed.
  It's the American Way (TM)... If you want to be robbed
by a better class of thugs, then you can expect to pay a
little more for being beaten with gold-knuckles, instead
of brass-knuckles, if you're a little late on your payment.


I'm A Funny Guy, Eh?:
  No, I'm serious...
  If I fail to pay the Town of Bienfait thirty dollars
for allowing my dog, whom I have not had a single complaint
about from any of my neighbors or fellow citizens, to 
experience the freedom that should be the birthright of
every living creature, then those who rule over the
land I currently live on (under the authority of armed
enforcers), are willing to put me to death.

  They don't like to kill the goose that laid the golden
egg, Jane or Joe Sheeple, so they prefer to start by
placing them in bondage, kidnapping them, and holding
them prisoner in small cages until they get the message
that they are not to be fucked with.
  If you resist being kidnapped and imprisoned, they have
no choice but to send more and better armed thugs to
overcome your resistance, murdering you if you refuse to
recognize and submit to their authority over you, no 
matter how unjust or uncivilized their decisions and
their actions.

  My dog, Baby, doesn't speak Cherokee, so when the
armed thugs approach, she just barks.
  She barks, "The Revolution Is NOW!"


TownShip of MongerItaville -- Population - 1:
  I have self-incorporated (self-actualized, for you
people living in New Age, California) the Township of
MongerItaville, in my own mind, and voted myself the
Grand Pooh-Bah(Humbug) of the domain it encompasses,
which can be found by reaching behind myself and
grabbing my ass. (Wherever I go, there I am...)
  I was elected unanimusly (not a typo), since in
MongerItaville dogs can vote, but women can't.
  (Sorry, Baby, but I only had the Founding Fathers
to use as a role-model...there weren't any Founding
Mothers.)

  As the sole citizen and the head of government of
MongerItaville, I had to make a decision as to 
whether it was better to attempt to reinvent the
wheel, so to speak, by following the example of
the founders of American democracy, or to take a
more realistic approach and automatically grant
myself all of the same powers as have been assumed
by the current governmental and bureacratic 
representatives of the evolution of freedom and
democracy.
  In the beginning, I decided to do both, no matter
how schizophrenic the results, since it seemed obvious
that anything less would be the equivalent of bending
over for the soap in the shower at the Home For The
Criminally Insane.

  I wrote a 'Realistic Bill of Rights' for the TownShip]
of MongerItaville, including such gems as:
~A well-armed and well-lubricated milita being essential
to the security of my butt-hole, my right to get stinking
fucking drunk and 'Load and Lock' (or whatever) shall not
be a bridge over troubled water.
[Editor's Note: Realistically, the preceeding should
read, "Load (Boom!--"Goddamn, I just blew my foot
off!") and Lock."]
~My right to be secure in my person (especially in the
rear part) and my electronic emmissions (internal and
external) will be the responsibility of no one other
than myself (and possibly Phil Zimmerman and Matt
Blaze).
~I will not discriminate against anyone on the basis
of age, race, sex, sexual orientation, or breed.
(Although I reserve the right to call any living
entity 'old fart', 'nigger', 'slut', 'faggot', or
'mutt', if they--start a sentence with, "Kids
nowdays...'--give me soap, instead of crack, for
my twenty dollars--fuck all of my friends and 
everyone in my band--drop the soap in the shower--
jump into bed before me and take the good pillow.)


Hey! Those Aren't Amendments! Those Are Justifications!:
  I decided on only two amendments. One to my physical
constitution--a double-shot of Jim Beam, and one to
my intellectual Constitution--I'm the government, and
I can do anything I fucking want..."
  I suppose that the latter amendment may no be
politically correct in a Berkeley kind of society,
but at least it is consistent with the recognition
of my right to life, liberty, and pursuit of cynicism.

I May Be A Stupid Fuck, But At Least I'm Not A Stupid Fuck:
  Anyone who thinks I am overreacting reads the daily 
news with their blinders on...
  Remember the old broad in New England whose family 
decided she had to be imprisoned against her will in
a looney bin for observation ("We just want to ask
you a few questions...") because she had put up with
society's bullshit long enough to have earned the
right to be 'eccentric'. (That's what you're called
if your filthy fucking rich and let your toenails
grow so long that they curl up like a ram's horns.)
  Would the armed thugs pretending to 'serve and
protect' have been using rubber bullets if there was
no press present? (Can you say 'Ruby Ridge'? Sure
you can...)
  What if the grandmother busted for helping a stranger
avoid paying vigorish to the armed thugs by plugging
parking meters had told the thugs, "Fuck you! You 
assholes are crazy and out of control. I refuse to
be subject to the insanity of your armed rule over
every detail of the citizen's life."?
  She would be one dead cunt...


What's Good For The Gander Is Good For Those Getting Goosed:
  Am I overreacting?
  I am being muscled by thugs that will murder me over
thirty dollars, just to maintain their control over the
Sheeple that they rule.
  Any way you want to cut it, you cannot deny that you know
this is true.

  Do you understand?
  Do you understand that these people are willing to murder
a compound full of people holding 'eccentric' religious
beliefs--men, women and children--justifying their actions
on the grounds of what they later admit are lies?
  Do you understand that instead of admitting to their
criminal actions, they will make criminals of the survivors,
placing them in prisons designed to reinforce upon the
citizenry that even their children will be slaughtered if
they are so bold as to say, "The King has no clothes."


I Know You Can Read...But Can You Understand?:
    Can you pick up a paper without reading about some
atrocity being perpetrated on individuals and groups of
citizens by the armed thugs in power?
[Tuscon Nutly News--MILITARY ANALYSTS REPORT THAT IN
the last three years, 42,384,672 senior and general
Army officers were accused of offenses including child
molestation and adultery--and not one was prosecuted.
Each was allowed simply to retire.
  Sgt. Maj. Gene C. McKinney, however, not being an
officer, faces 55 years in prison for lechery, as 
a result of being accused of an act of foreplay
that occured during consensual sex with a woman
not his wife.
  Sgt. Maj. McKinney, when reached for comment by
the Left Nutly News, said, "I should have 'accidentally'
killed her after sex. Under the Uniform Code of Military
Justice, negligent homicide only carries a maximum
sentence of *three* years."
  Joseph Finder, author of the novel "High Crimes," told
Nutly News reportwhores, in response to allegations that
the Nutly News was misquoting his article and inflating
the numbers involved for shock effect, said, "I write 
for the mainstream media. I'm supposed to pretend that
murdering a hundred innocent children makes someone
more of a monster than murdering a single innocent child,
especially if the murderer voted to give my publisher
a huge tax-break for requiring his staff to make certain
that the child was born naked, and thus was obviously
involved in some sort of child-pornography ring."
When asked for comment, a Pentagon spin-liar told 
Nutly News reportwhores, "It's called the Uniform Code
of Military Justice because we look at what kind of
uniform they are wearing, and then decide what kind of
justice they are going to get."]

  Can you pick up a newspaper without reading about some
totally clueless dickwad--who is licensed to carry a gun,
shoot any citizen on the slightest whim, and then lie
about it in court under cover of a neatly-pressed uniform
and shiny badge--performing some outrageous act that an
ordinary citizen would be lynched for?
[Tucson Nutly News--WHEN THE POLICE OFFICER WHO PLAYS THE
role of McGruff, the police dog (Take a bite out of crime)
was unavailable, a fellow police monger called upon the
services of an inmate incarcerated for child molestation
to fill in as McGruff, in a school classroom containing
one of the child rapist's victims.
Although the voice of Charles Darwin could be heard
calling out from the grave, "Put a bullet in this ignorant
Pig's head, before he breeds.", the citizenry merely turned
to the weather section of the paper, to see if the weekend
would be nice enough for them to take their children to
the park, where the same ignorant piece-of-shit police
officer would be in charge of 'serving' the children up
to convicted child-molesters, and 'protecting' himself
from suffering the consequences of his incompetence by
making sure that his union dues were paid up.
  When asked for comment, McGruff, the police dog, told
this reportwhore, "The regular guy's not back yet...do
you have any children...do you have any pictures of 
them naked?"
  In the 'Real Sports' section of the same newspaper,
the ClueServer Sports Wire reported the results of the
True Justice Championship Game as: Child Molesters - 1,
Children - 0.]


Lucky Strike, Lucky Green -- by Defcon McCullagh Chainsaw
[Time We Found The Path--FOR THE FIRST TIME IN DIGITALLY
recorded history, the voice of the netizens has triumphed
over the paid political spin-doctoring of the mainstream
media.
In a startling development with global consequences, the
recent actions taking place in a Cult of One community
in Southern Saskatchewan, the TownShip of MongerItaville,
have been embraced by citizens around the globe in light
of the information reported by independent observers
relaying a wide variety of details via the InterNet and
the World-Wide-Web, rather from the standard government
hand-outs provided to the mainstream media reportwhores
gathered around the free drinks and snacks left over from
Desert Storm.
  TruthMonger, the Grand Pooh-Bah(Humbug) of the
physico-virtual nation of MongerItaville, launched
a surprise First Strike against the dangerous armed
thugs who had threatened his physico-virtual existence
over the paltry sum of thirty dollars.
  TruthMonger told this reportwhore, "John Lennon called
me the 'Fifth Horseman of the Apocalypse' because I used
to say, 'Throw them all in the laundry bag, and let the
maid sort them out.' I know that this statement doesn't
make any sense, but, believe it or not, this is one of
my *good* days."
  Cult of One analysts from around the globe agree
that the straw-dog that broke Joe Camel's back was
provided by a post to the CypherPunks mailing list
by Lucky Green and his secret lover, Anna R. Christ.
  "We finally understand what 'The Xenix Chainsaw
Massacre' was all about.
  "It was about an individual whose brain had been
destroyed from too many electroshock treatments and
years of drug abuse, finally taking a stand and 
deciding to do what was right, even though he had
no idea what that meant.
  "It was about people who heard the voice barfing
in the wilderness, which told them that it was
OK to tell the fruitcakes wearing crystals around
their necks to go fuck themselves, and kick their
ass if they didn't give them back the five hundred
bucks they paid to take a seminar which was nothing
more than 'The Power of Positive Thinking' with
a Barnum & Bailey/New Age spin-doctoring tacked
on to rook Spiritually Correct Rubes.
  "It was about learning to follow your own wisdom,
your own conscience, and give the guru whose ass
you just kicked a few dollars to cover the cost
of the hot-dog provided by the Sufi vendor at
the back of the seminar hall, who delivered on
his promise to '...make you one with everything.'
  "It was about ninety pages long..."
  Jean Chretien, the former Prime Minister of
Canada, the country brought down by the Cult of
One seperatist movement inspired by the seige
at MongerItaville, said, "You can fool some of
the people all of the time, and all of the people
some of they time, but...hey, we kept the citizens
believing, for a hundred years, that Louis Riel
acted alone..."
When contacted by this reportwhore, God, the Supreme
Creator of the Universe, said that, due to the Cult Of
One phenomena currently sweeping over the face
of the earth, due to everyone now having their
own web site, "Now I, like Dog, speak only for
myself..."
  This is Defcon McCullagh Chainsaw, going with the
flow and mediating on the Zen koan, "Is this a new
spin on the revolution, or vice-versa?"]


Am I Being Silly Again?:
  Sure...so what's your point?





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 15:00:34 -0800 (PST)
To: Tim May 
Subject: Re: HP Crypto Export
In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19980228141822.006aee98@descartes.coker.edu>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 12:08 -0800 2/28/98, Tim May wrote:
>A constant danger with any of these "solutions" is that they make later
>imposition of controls so much easier. Consider the implications of
>widespread deployment of the HP-type system (which, BTW, I don't think will
>happen in the U.S., or elsewhere).
>
>A simple change in the law and all new tokens (and they must be renewed
>yearly, so says HP) will implement the new law.

It's a sign of the times when Tim and I can agree on these things, or at
least recognize the same problems. Note NONE of HP's press materials
included that 1 year detail. --Declan

====

http://cgi.pathfinder.com/netly/afternoon/0,1012,1771,00.html

One-Year Itch

Even if you studiously ignore the arcana of encryption export rules, it's
worth paying attention to a new product from Hewlett Packard.
The government has OK'ed the overseas sale of HP's "VerSecure" boards and
computer chips that have full-strength encryption built in -- but turned
off by default. To engage the data-scrambling features, you'll need an
"activation token."

Catch is, however, that they last only one year, and the tokens also can
open a "key recovery" electronic peephole for snooping government agents.
This is the only way HP can hawk these things in France, a country with no
shortage of such police.

Now, the FBI wants to ban U.S. software without such peepholes. Doesn't
crypto-crippleware make it much easier for the government to issue only
key recovery tokens when everyone's existing ones expire?
"Whatever the law is in the U.S., we will comply," says CEO Lewis Platt.
--By Declan McCullagh/Washington






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 18:59:06 -0800 (PST)
To: tcmay@got.net
Subject: Chemical, Biological, or Radiation (CBR) weapons
Message-ID: <34F8CC2A.20BA@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Saturday 2/28/98 7:22 PM

Tim May

Just saw your stuff at jya.com.

Got in the mail today  

  Volume 9, Number 4, 1997

  MILITARY PSYCHOLOGY

  The Official Journal of the 
  Division of Military Psychology
  American Psychological Association

  Special Issue:  Effects of Chemical Protective
                  Clothing of Military Performance
  Guest Editors:  Gerald P. Krueger and
                  Louis E. Banderet

I'll transcribe some of the text.

The US government drugs soldiers before they go into battle.

Trust me.

Banderet was ANOTHER of my Ph. D. students.

Later
bill

Title: HP Crypto Export






28 February 1998

  
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 14:18:22 -0500
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
From: Michael Elder 
Subject: HP Crypto Export


>From the NY Times online (www.nytmes.com)

February 28, 1998


Hewlett-Packard Granted License For Encryption System 

By Peter Wayner 

The Commerce Department has granted Hewlett-Packard an export license for
its VerSecure encryption architecture allowing the company and its
licensees to export strong encryption tools, the company announced Friday.
The catch is that the products must take their orders from a central
computer system that will dictate how all the products will behave in each
country. 

The company hopes that the solution would break the deadlock between the
Clinton Administration, which continues to restrict the export of secure
computer technology throughout the world, and the computer industry, which
contends that foreigners are not interested in buying products that don't
protect their secrets. 

The new solution effectively disconnects the problem of distributing
encryption technology from the process of determining the policy for
government access to information. The heart is a new class of trusted
hardware cards and chips that take their orders from a central company
known as a Security Domain Authority or SDA. In countries, like France,
that require people to keep a record of keys for unlocking data, the SDA
would only allow the computers to encrypt information if it complied with
the laws. In countries with no laws about encryption usage like the United
States, Germany and Great Britain, the SDA would allow users to encrypt in
whatever manner they choose. 

Hewlett-Packard sees the solution as a win for the industry, which will be
able to build one set of hardware and software that can be shipped
throughout the world. The SDA's will set the local rules because the
computers will not encrypt information without first getting permission
from the SDA.

Doug McGowan, one of the director of Hewlett-Packard's efforts, said in a
telephone interview, "Never before has a general purpose cryptography tool
been exportable from the United States, with or without key recovery. We're
opening a huge market for American industry to enable commerce on a
worldwide basis." 

The price for this flexibility is the need for specialized hardware that
treats the SDA as its master. In an ordinary computer, the owner can
control all aspects of what the computer does. This extra hardware will
raise the price of machines and is bound to be more expensive than software
which can be distributed at minimal cost. 

Feisal Mosleh, a business development manager at Hewlett-Packard, pointed
out that specialized hardware can offer faster performance and more
security. "It is very hardware-specific with the flexibility of software
and that gives us a lot of strength in terms of tamper resistance" he said
in a phone interview.

Many security experts continue to point out that general-use microcomputers
and their operating systems are dangerously insecure. In one recent attack,
hackers were able to begin transfers from a bank account by manipulating
accounting software. Off-loading the process to specialized hardware makes
it simpler to ensure that the system is secure because the special hardware
has only one job.

Hewlett-Packard says that it is licensing the architecture to a number of
different computer vendors and announced that IBM, Motorola, CertCo,
Trusted Information System, Microsoft and RSA Data Securities had already
signed licenses. The vendors will be free to choose how they implement the
special computer hardware, but most will probably use firmware with an
embedded microprocessor. The initial version will reportedly include DES,
triple-DES, RSA, RC2, RC4 and Diffie-Hellman algorithms. Each of these
solutions can be sped up by specialized hardware, but only a general
microprocessor can handle all of them with equal agility. 

The specialized hardware will also be tamper-proof to prevent people from
circumventing the commands of the SDA. When an encryption card is first
started up, it cannot begin working until it has received instructions from
an SDA in its country. This information is contained in a "policy token."
Joe Beyers, general manager of Hewlett-Packard's Internet Software business
unit, explained, "The token says, 'You can use this amount of key, this
amount of strength for this amount of time.'"

Beyers went on to say, "The aspect of time allows the government to evolve
their policy. Time limits are one of the attributes that made it attractive
to the U.S. government." It would be possible for a government to change
policy with the system from time to time, perhaps forcing citizens to use
long keys in time of war to protect themselves and then relaxing the policy
after peace emerged. 

In the current plan, policy tokens would be good for one year, forcing
computers to re-register with an SDA in order to keep working. The SDA
would have no control of a token after it was issued and would only be able
to change policies at the renewal. 

The relationship between the SDA and the key recovery program is more
difficult to describe. The SDA would not keep any records of any keys that
would allow the police to eavesdrop on calls. But the policy tokens would
force the embedded hardware to obey the local laws that might include key
recovery. The FBI has asked Congress to mandate key recovery systems that
give it clear access to all communications. 

The yearly interrogation between the SDA and the individual computers does
not mean that the system will be foolproof. Someone could simply carry a
laptop from a country that allows personal privacy to a country with more
invasive laws and use it freely until the policy token runs out. Also, it
may be possible to spoof the token authorization procedure by pretending
that the request came from one country instead of another. 

Some critics found the use of special hardware to be problematic. Jim
Lucier, a policy analyst for the Americans for Tax Reform, a Republican
think tank, pointed out that specialized hardware was ignored by the
marketplace in the past. "None of it ever works" he said, "because the more
obvious solution, which is end-to-end encryption, is already there."

Lucier also pointed out that specialized hardware is more complicated to
engineer and much more expensive to distribute than software. "Atoms cost
more than bits, it just comes down to that," he said. In a press conference
Friday morning, Beyers promised that the new hardware was "months, not
years away" and also promised that the hardware costs would be as low as
possible. 

Marc Rotenberg, director of the Electronic Privacy Information Center,
suggested that replacing the current export control bureaucracy with a
network of SDA's was not a significant advance. "Government efforts to
regulate crypto will only slow the development of commerce," he said.

In fact, the decision by the United States government to grant a license to
Hewlett-Packard's architecture is far from liberating. Companies making
VerSecure products can only ship them to countries approved by the United
States government, a list which at this time is limited to the United
Kingdom, Germany, France, Denmark and Australia. More countries will become
open if and when they create an SDA infrastructure that is acceptable to
the United States. 

Hewlett-Packard has gone to great lengths to prevent rogue nations from
setting up their own unauthorized SDA's by cloning hardware. The
infrastructure uses CertCo's secure certificate servers to restrict the
ability to create the software necessary to build the tokens. Beyers says
that no one person at Hewlett-Packard has the ability to do this in order
to reduce the potential for corruption and theft.

Hewlett-Packard is also working heavily with foreign countries to assure
them that the system does not include back doors that might be accessible
by the United States government. Beyers said that the company had retained
an international group of cryptographic experts to vet the system and allay
any fears of hidden back doors. 

A press release from Hewlett-Packard quoted William A. Reinsch,
undersecretary of commerce, as saying, "We are pleased to support HP's
effort to develop and market encryption products that encourage the use of
key recovery in providing robust, secure encryption. This approval and our
ongoing dialogue with the industry are consistent with the Clinton
Administration's goal of allowing the market to develop recoverable
encryption products."

Peter Wayner at pwayner@nytimes.com welcomes your comments and suggestions.

Copyright 1998 The New York Times Company 



Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 12:08:30 -0800
To: Michael Elder , cypherpunks@toad.com
From: Tim May 
Subject: Re: HP Crypto Export

At 11:18 AM -0800 2/28/98, Michael Elder wrote:
>>From the NY Times online (www.nytmes.com)
>Hewlett-Packard Granted License
>For Encryption System
>
>By PETER WAYNER

>known as a Security Domain Authority or SDA. In countries, like France,
>that require people to keep a record of keys for unlocking data, the SDA
>would only allow the computers to encrypt information if it complied with
>the laws. In countries with no laws about encryption usage like the United
>States, Germany and Great Britain, the SDA would allow users to encrypt in
>whatever manner they choose.

Until, of course, the U.S. changes its policy.

A constant danger with any of these "solutions" is that they make later
imposition of controls so much easier. Consider the implications of
widespread deployment of the HP-type system (which, BTW, I don't think will
happen in the U.S., or elsewhere).

A simple change in the law and all new tokens (and they must be renewed
yearly, so says HP) will implement the new law.

The camel's nose in the tent strategy.

The HP/IBM product is perniciously evil and should be fought with all
technical and memetic means.

--Tim May

Just Say No to "Big Brother Inside"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^3,021,377   | black markets, collapse of governments.





Title: Untitled Document









Viewing this page requires a browser capable of displaying frames.





Friday February 27, 1998 3:15 PM


By e-mail and US mail

Lieutenant General Kenneth A Minihan, USAF
Director, National Security Agency
National Security Agency
9800 Savage Road
Fort George G. Meade, MD 20755-6000

Dear General Minihan:

Purposes of the letter are to

1  request information under the Freedom of Information Act
2  explore settlement possibilities of our current lawsuit.

In about 1986 Sandia National Laboratories assigned me the 
task of  design and construction of a Comprehensive Test Ban 
Treaty seismic data authenticator.

In the initial stages of the project, Sandia cryptographer 
Gustavus Simmons attempted to convince both Sandia 
management and NSA employees Tom White, Mark Unkenholtz,
and Ed Georgio that a form of public key authentication should 
replace NSA employee Ronald Benincasa's National Seismic
Station/Unmaned Seismic Observatory 11-bit data authentication
algorithm.

My Sandia supervisor John Holovka and project leader H B [Jim]
Durham ordered me to write a paper explaining public key 
cryptography.

This paper,  RSA ENCRYPTION, along with my SAND report
describing my implementation of Benincasa's algorithm and
filings in our lawsuit, now appear on Internet at
http://www.jya.com/index.htm, click CRYPTOME, then OpEd,
then http://www.jya.com/whprsa.htm.

Sandia explored the merits of switching from Benincasa's
algorithm to a public key-based authentication method suggested
by Simmons.

For Sandia's evaluation of the merits of public key, electronic tagging,
and Bureau of Engraving and Printing projects ,  I bought for Sandia 
samples both the Cylink CY1024 and AT&T A & B two chip sets for
modulo m arithmetic computations.

NSA employee Tom White sent me a copy of the SECRET classified
NSA report on IBM's hardware public key chip FIREFLY.

I wrote in my tutorial paper

  RSA hardware computations

  The slow speed of software RSA computations plus the potential
  wide use prompted several companies to build chips which compute
  modular arithmetic to at least several hundred bits.  Most of
  these chips "cascade" to compute with a larger number of bits.

  Corporations involved in building these chips are

     1  IBM  Firefly

     2  AT&T

     3  Motorola (apparently a three chip set)

     4  Cylink   Pittway-First alert

     5  Sandia Labs (Algorithm M and predecessor chip)

  Details of the IBM chip is classified.  AT&T as of July 1987 has
  not released details of their chip.  Little information is
  available on the Motorola chip set.

  The Cylink chip is commercially available.  Its price dropped
  from $1,500 to $600 each in June 1987.  Data is transferred to
  and from the chip with serial shift register communication.

  The early Sandia chip was limited in speed.  The replacement
  chip is cascadeable, communicates with 8 or 16 bits parallel,
  matches the speed of the Cylink chip, but is not out of
  fabrication.

  Rumors circulate that there is about an order of magnitude
  performance difference between some of these chips.

  These hardware chips improve exponentiation speed about 3 orders
  of magnitude over software implementation benchmarked on an Intel
  8086 family microcomputer.

Whitfield Diffie writes about both the Cylink and Sandia chips.  And
is quoted at  http://www.aci.net/kalliste/nukearse.htm.

Sandia had terrible luck with its public key chips.  

I reported SOME of the troubles to Electronic Engineering Times editor 
Loring Wirbel [http://techweb.cmp.com/eet/823/] on March 23, 1994.

        Dr. John Wisniewski was a supervisor at Sandia's Center for
        Radiation-hardened Microelectronics.  Wisniewski was a graduate
        student at Washington State University in about 1975.  I was a
        professor at WSU.

        Wisniewski knows all about the failing Sandia chips in the nuclear
        arsenal.  I took notes on February 13, 1993.  Wisniewski reviewed
        the problems again for me.

             1    No quality initiative.  Each chip lot had a different
                  process.
             2    Overall yield - 40-50%.  Down to 10% after packaging.
             3    Metalization problems.  No planarization.  No flow of
                  glass.  Couldn't use high temperature.  Step coverage
                  problems.  Layed down over tension.  100% field returns
                  over several years.
             4    Sandia would store lots of parts for replacements.

        Sandia management made the decision to place low yield parts in
        the nuclear arsenal.  Sandia must meet DOD schedules management
        reasoned.  Hundreds of millions spent on CRM.  Sandia must show
        productivity.

        Wisniewski told me that low yield chip test survivors are those   
        whichthe tests failed to detect failures.  Wisniewski will talk.  
        503-625-6408.  Wisniewski now works for Intel in Oregon.  Have 
        Wisniewski tell you about the fire in the CRM clean room!

Sandia supervisor Jerry Allen later told me it cost $300,000 each to remove
Sandia's failing chips at Pantex from a nuclear bomb.

NSA apparently is biased toward hardware implementations of cryptographic
and authentication algorithms.  As opposed to software implementation.

NSA representatives and Sandia management decided not to use a public
key authentication scheme for its CTBT seismic data authenticator because
of all of the problems with implementing public key algorithms.

But NSA surely has spent MUCH MONEY on public key chip implementations.

NSA is promoting its Clipper crypto chips as described at 
http://cpsr.org/dox/clipper.html.

And we get some information about technical specifications of NSA's Clipper
chip at http://www.us.net/softwar/http://www.us.net/softwar/clip.html

  Clipper Chip Information

  MYK-78 CLIPPER CHIP ENCRYPTION/DECRYPTION  ON A CHIP 

     1 micron double level metal CMOS technology 
     0.35 watts power 
     28 pin plastic leaded chip carrier (PLCC) package 
     Transistor to transistor logic (TTL) interface 
     Chip ID, family key and device unique key are installed at 
     programming. 
     Chip ID, family key and device unique key are installed at programming           
     facility and are completely transparent to the user.

Therefore, Under the provision of the Freedom of Information Act, 
5 USC 552, I am requesting access to: 

1  Copies of all invoices from

	A   AT&T
	B   Motorola
	C   IBM
	D  Sandia National Laboratories

to NSA for payments for developing ANY public key-related chips between 
January 1, 1980 and February 27, 1998.

2  Copies of all invoices to NSA from ANY corporation involved in 
development
of ANY Clipper chip-related hardware between January 1, 1980 and 
February 27, 1998.

The public has a right to know how much NSA spent on TRYING monoploize the 
crypto business.

If there are any fees for searching for, or copying, the records I have 
requested, please inform me before you fill the request.

As you know, the Act permits you to reduce or waive the fees when the 
release of the information is considered as "primarily benefiting the 
public."
  
I believe that this requests fits that category and I therefore ask that 
you waive any fees.

If all or any part of this request is denied, please cite the specific 
exemption(s) which you think justifies your refusal to release the information and inform me of your agency's administrative appeal procedures available to me under the law.

I would appreciate your handling this request as quickly as possible, and I 
look forward to hearing from you within 20 working days, as the law stipulates.

With respect to our current FOIA lawsuit, I feel that we should settle this
unfortunate matter.

I see from your biography at  http://www.nsa.gov:8080/ and
http://www.nsa.gov:8080/dirnsa/dirnsa.html that you are

         1979   Distinguished Graduate
         Master of Arts degree in National Security Affairs 
         Naval Postgraduate School 
         Monterey, California

One of my former M.S. and Ph.D students in Computer Science,
Ted Lewis, is currently the chairman of Computer Science at
Naval Postgraduate School [http://www.friction-free-economy.com/].

Small world.

But I think that this emphasizes that WE SHOULD all be on the same side.
Not engaged in a conflict in US federal court.  Or on Internet.

NSA attempts to withhold requested information are possibly unwise.  

In our wired world the aggrieved know what happened to them.
[http://www.aci.net/kalliste/speccoll.htm]. http://www.wpiran.org/,
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/impact/namir/namirm.html

And moderates in Iran, [http://persia.org/khatami/biography.html], appear 
want settlement too.

My family and I have been damaged by these crypto wars.

I ask you that consider fair settlement of damages caused by the National
Security Agency.

I cannot find your e-mail address on Internet.

Therefore I will forward the e-mail copy of this FOIA/settlement letter to 
Ray Kammer of NIST [http://www.nist.gov/], who along with the FBI 
[http://www.fbi.gov/, http://www.fbi.gov/fo/nyfo/nytwa.htmand], and NSA 
are trying to control the crypto business so that Kammer can possibly
forward an e-mail copy of the FOIA/Settlement letter to you.

Sincerely,

bill

William Payne
13015 Calle de Sandias
Albuquerque, NM 87111
505-292-7037 [I am not reading e-mail]




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: real@inet.com
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 18:56:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: ///// Have You Ever!! ////////////
Message-ID: <199803010256.SAA01837@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Subject: Amazing Program! Make $50,000.00 in 2 months with your computer and the net !

     IT REALLY WORKS FOLKS!!
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
   IMAGINE $50,000 , ALL YOURS IN 2 MONTHS

HERES HOW TO MAKE $50,000 EASY. DO NOT DELETE!  I AM SERIOUS
THAT THIS WORKS. THIS IS THE SECOND TIME I HAVE DONE THIS, AND I GOT $66,000
MY FIRST TIME. I AM A 17 YEAR OLD WITH A BMW!!!! IT ONLY TAKES ABOUT A
MONTH AND A HALF TOO!! JUST FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS BELOW AND YOU'LL GET
MONEY FAST, EASY, AND HAVE FUN DOING IT.

The following is a copy of the e-mail I read:

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

This is a LEGAL, MONEY-MAKING PHENOMENON.
PRINT this letter, read the directions, THEN READ IT AGAIN !!!

You are about to embark on the most profitable and unique program you
may ever see. Many times over, it has demonstrated and proven its ability
to generate large amounts of cash. This program is showing fantastic appeal
with a huge and ever-growing on-line population desirous of additional
income.

This is a legitimate, LEGAL, money-making opportunity.  It does not
require you to come in contact with people, do any hard work, and best of all,
you never have to leave the house, except to get the mail and go to the
bank!

This truly is that lucky break you've been waiting for!  Simply follow
the easy instructions in this letter, and your financial dreams will come
true! When followed correctly, this electronic, multi-level marketing program
works perfectly...100% EVERY TIME!

Thousands of people have used this program to:
    -  Raise capital to start their own business
    -  Pay off debts
    -  Buy homes, cars, etc.,
    -  Even retire!

This is your chance, so don't pass it up!

------------------------------------------------------------
OVERVIEW OF THIS EXTRAORDINARY ELECTRONIC
MULTI-LEVEL MARKETING PROGRAM
------------------------------------------------------------

Basically, this is what we do:

We send thousands of people a product for $5.00 that costs next to nothing
to produce and e-mail. As with all multi-level businesses, we build
our
business by recruiting new partners and selling our products.  Every
state
in the U.S. allows you to recruit new multi- level business online (via
your
computer).

The products in this program are a series of four business and financial
reports costing $5.00 each.  Each order you receive via "snail mail"
will
include:

  * $5.00 cash
  * The name and number of the report they are ordering
  * The e-mail address where you will e-mail them the report they ordered.

To fill each order, you simply e-mail the product to the buyer.  THAT'S
IT!
The $5.00 is yours!  This is the EASIEST electronic multi-level marketing
business anywhere!

FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS TO THE LETTER AND BE PREPARED TO REAP THE
STAGGERING BENEFITS!

     ******* I  N  S  T  R  U  C  T  I  O  N  S *******

This is what you MUST do:

1. Order all 4 reports shown on the list below (you can't sell them
if you
don't order them).

     *  For each report, send $5.00 CASH, the NAME & NUMBER OF THE REPORT
YOU ARE ORDERING, YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS, and YOUR RETURN POSTAL
ADDRESS
(in case of a problem) to the person whose name appears on the list
next
to the report.

     *  When you place your order, make sure you order each of the four
reports.  You will need all four reports so that you can save them on
your
computer and resell them.

     *  Within a few days you will receive, via e-mail, each of the
four
reports. Save them on your computer so they will be accessible for you
to
send to the 1,000's of people who will order them from you.

2.  IMPORTANT-- DO NOT alter the names of the people who are listed
next to
each report, or their sequence on the list, in any way other than is
instructed below in steps "a" through "d" or you will lose out on the
majority of your profits.  Once you  understand the way this works,
you'll
also see how it doesn't work if you change it.  Remember, this method
has
been tested, and if you alter it, it will not work.

    a.  Look below for the listing of available reports.

    b.  After you've ordered the four reports, replace the name and
address
        under REPORT #1 with your name and address, moving the one that
        was there down to REPORT #2.

    c.  Move the name and address that was under REPORT #2 down to REPORT
        #3.

    d.  Move the name and address that was under REPORT #3 down to REPORT
        #4.

    e.  The name and address that was under REPORT #4 is removed from
the
        list and has NO DOUBT collected their 50 grand.

Please make sure you copy everyone's name and address ACCURATELY!!!

3.  Take this entire letter, including the modified list of names, and
save
it to your computer.  Make NO changes to the instruction portion of
this
letter.

4.  Now you're ready to start an advertising campaign on the WORLDWIDE
WEB!
Advertising on the WEB is very, very inexpensive, and there are HUNDREDS
of
FREE places to advertise. Another avenue which you could use for advertising
is e-mail lists.  You can buy these lists for under $20/2,000 addresses
or
you can pay someone a minimal charge to take care of it for you.

BE SURE TO START YOUR AD CAMPAIGN IMMEDIATELY!

5.  For every $5.00 you receive, all you must do is e-mail them the
report
they ordered.  THAT'S IT!  ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON ALL ORDERS!
This will guarantee that the e-mail THEY send out, with YOUR name and
address on it, will be prompt because they can't advertise until they
receive the report!

------------------------------------------
AVAILABLE REPORTS
------------------------------------------

***Order Each REPORT by NUMBER and NAME***

Notes:
-  ALWAYS SEND $5 CASH FOR EACH REPORT
-  ALWAYS SEND YOUR ORDER VIA FIRST CLASS MAIL
-  Make sure the cash is concealed by wrapping it in at least two sheets
of
paper
-  On one of those sheets of paper, include: (a) the number & name of
the
report you are ordering, (b) your e-mail address, and (c) your postal
address.
________________________________________

REPORT #1 "HOW TO MAKE $250,000 THROUGH MULTI-LEVEL SALES"

ORDER REPORT #1 FROM:
                        Tgar Enterprise
                         P.O. Box 1984
                    Stafford, VA 22555-1984
_______________________________________

REPORT #2 "MAJOR CORPORATIONS AND MULTI-LEVEL SALES"

ORDER REPORT #2 FROM:
                    RWC Ent.
                    Unit 50 Hamlyn Road Plaza
                    Suite #110
                    St. John's, Newfoundland
                    Canada, A1E 5X7
________________________________________

REPORT #3 "SOURCES FOR THE BEST MAILING LISTS"

ORDER REPORT #3 FROM:
                      MMS Publications
                      P.O. Box 116101
                      Carrollton, TX 75011    
________________________________________

REPORT #4 "EVALUATING MULTI-LEVEL SALES PLANS"

ORDER REPORT #4 FROM:
                          M.M.L.I.
                          1011 Cimarron Cir. N.W.
                          Bradenton, FL 34209
________________________________________

------------------------------------------------------------
HERE'S HOW THIS AMAZING PLAN WILL MAKE YOU $MONEY$
------------------------------------------------------------

Let's say you decide to start small just to see how well it works. Assume
your goal is to get 10 people to participate on your first level. (Placing
a
lot of FREE ads on the internet will EASILY get a larger response.)
Also
assume that everyone else in YOUR ORGANIZATION gets ONLY 10 downline
members.  Follow this example to achieve the STAGGERING results below.

1st level--your 10 members with $5...........................$50
2nd level--10 members from those 10 ($5 x 100...............$500
3rd level--10 members from those 100 ($5 x 1,000).........$5,000
4th level--10 members from those 1,000 ($5 x 10,000).....$50,000
                                THIS TOTALS  ----------->$55,550

Remember friends, this assumes that the people who participate only
recruit
10 people each.  Think for a moment what would happen if they got 20
people
to participate!  Most people get 100's of participants! THINK ABOUT
IT!

Your cost to participate in this is practically nothing (surely you
can
afford $20). You obviously already have an internet connection and e-mail
is FREE!!! REPORT#3 shows you the most productive methods for bulk e-mailing
and purchasing e-mail lists.  Some list & bulk e-mail vendors even work
on
trade!

About 50,000 new people get online every month!

*******TIPS FOR SUCCESS*******

 *  TREAT THIS AS YOUR BUSINESS!  Be prompt, professional, and follow
the
directions accurately.

 *  Send for the four reports IMMEDIATELY so you will have them when
the
orders start coming in because:

    When you receive a $5 order, you MUST send out the requested
product/report to comply with the U.S. Postal & Lottery Laws, Title
18,Sections 1302 and 1341 or Title 18,  Section 3005 in the U.S. Code,
also
Code of Federal Regs. vol. 16, Sections 255 and 436, which state that
"a
product or service must be exchanged for money received."

 *  ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON THE ORDERS YOU RECEIVE.

 *  Be patient and persistent with this program. If you follow the
instructions exactly, the results WILL undoubtedly be SUCCESSFUL!

 *  ABOVE ALL, HAVE FAITH IN YOURSELF AND KNOW YOU WILL SUCCEED!

*******YOUR SUCCESS GUIDELINE*******

Follow these guidelines to guarantee your success:

If you don't receive 10 to 20 orders for REPORT #1 within two weeks,
continue advertising until you do.  Then, a couple of weeks later you
should
receive at least 100 orders for REPORT #2.  If you don't, continue
advertising until you do.  Once you have received 100 or more orders
for
REPORT #2, YOU CAN RELAX, because the system is already working for
you, and
the cash will
continue to roll in!

THIS IS IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER:

Every time your name is moved down on the list, you are placed in front
of
a DIFFERENT report.  You can KEEP TRACK of your PROGRESS by watching
which
report people are ordering from you.  If you want to generate more income,
send another batch of e-mails and start the whole process again!  There
is
no limit to the income you will generate from this business!

NOTE:  If you need help with starting a business, registering a business
name, how income tax is handled, etc., contact your local office of
the
Small Business Administration (a Federal agency) for free help and answers
to questions. Also, the Internal Revenue Service offers free help via
telephone and free seminars about business taxes.

*******T  E  S  T  I  M  O  N  I  A  L  S*******

     This program does work, but you must follow it EXACTLY!  Especially
the rule of not trying to place your name in a different position, it
won't
work and you'll lose a lot of potential income.  I'm living proof that
it
works.  It really is a great opportunity to make relatively easy money,
with
little cost to you.  If you do choose to participate, follow the program
exactly, and you'll be on your way to financial security.
          Sean McLaughlin, Jackson, MS

     My name is Frank. My wife, Doris, and I live in Bel-Air, MD. I
am a cost accountant with a major U.S. Corporation and I make pretty good
money. When I received the program I grumbled to Doris about receiving "junk
mail ". I made fun of the whole thing, spouting my knowledge of the population
and percentages involved.  I "knew" it wouldn't work. Doris totally ignored
my supposed intelligence and jumped in with both feet. I made merciless
fun of her, and was ready to lay the old "I told you so" on her when the thing
didn't work... well, the laugh was on me!  Within two weeks she had
received over 50 responses. Within 45 days she had received over $147,200
in $5 bills! I was shocked!  I was sure that I had it all figured and that
it wouldn't work.  I AM a believer now. I have joined Doris in her "hobby."
  I did have seven more years until retirement, but I think of the "rat
race" and it's not for me. We owe it all to MLM.

           Frank T., Bel-Air, MD

    I just want to pass along my best wishes and encouragement to you.
 Any doubts you have will vanish when your first orders come in. I even checked
with the U.S. Post Office to verify that the plan was legal. It definitely
is! IT WORKS!!!
           Paul Johnson, Raleigh, NC

    The main reason for this letter is to convince you that this system
is honest, lawful, extremely profitable, and is a way to get a large amount
of money in a short time. I was approached several times before I checked
this out. I joined just to see what one could expect in return for the minimal
effort and money required.  To my astonishment, I received $36,470.00
in the first 14 weeks, with money still coming in.
           
         Sincerely yours, Phillip A. Brown, Esq.

    Not being the gambling type, it took me several weeks to make up
my mind to participate in this plan. But conservative that I am, I decided
that the initial investment was so little that there was just no way that
I wouldn't get enough orders to at least get my money back. Boy, was I
surprised when I found my medium-size post office box crammed with orders!
For awhile, it got so overloaded that I had to start picking up my mail
at the window. I'll make more money this year than any 10 years of my life
before. The nice thing about this deal is that it doesn't matter where
in the U.S. the people live. There simply isn't a better investment with
a faster return.

         Mary Rockland, Lansing, MI

    I had received this program before. I deleted it, but later I wondered
if I shouldn't have given it a try. Of course, I had no idea who to
contact to get another copy, so I had to wait until I was e-mailed another
program...11 months passed then it came...I didn't delete this one!...I
made more than $41,000 on the first try!!

          D. Wilburn, Muncie, IN

 This is my third time to participate in this plan. We have quit
our jobs, and will soon buy a home on the beach and live off the interest
on our money. The only way on earth that this plan will work for you is if
you do it. For your sake, and for your family's sake don't pass up this golden
opportunity.  Good luck and happy spending!

           Charles Fairchild, Spokane, WA

     My name is John and I live in Bradenton, FL. a friend of mine has
mad $15,000 and is driving around a new jeep chrrokee and it makes me jealous!!!
So I am going to try it and collect my $5 bills!!!!!!!!

         John Miller, Bradenton Florida

ORDER YOUR REPORTS TODAY AND GET
STARTED ON THE ROAD TO FINANCIAL FREEDOM!!!







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 21:11:32 -0800 (PST)
To: tcmay@got.net
Subject: chemical, biological, or radiation (CBR) weapons
Message-ID: <34F8ED42.3986@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Saturday 2/28/98 9:44 PM

I transcribe some of what I got in the mail today.

Volume 9, Number 4, 1997

  MILITARY PSYCHOLOGY

  The Official Journal of the 
  Division of Military Psychology
  American Psychological Association

  Special Issue:  Effects of Chemical Protective
                  Clothing of Military Performance
  Guest Editors:  Gerald P. Krueger and
                  Louis E. Banderet

         Psychological Aspects of Chemical Defense and Warfare

	James W. Stokes
	U.S. Army Medical Department Center and School
	Fort Sam Houston, Texas

	Louis E. Banderet
	U.S. Army Research Institute of Environmental Medicine
	Natick, Massachusetts

  Concerns about chemical, biological, or radiation (CBR) weapons  and 
  their potential for warfare can be very stressful.  Such concerns
subject
  people to unfamiliar threats in highly ambiguous situations, in which 
  people feel they may be wronged or they are helpless.  Maladaptive
  psychological overreactions or underreactions may result.  Such
reactions
  to chemical warfare are illustrated with the experience from World War
I,
  the 1991 Persian Gulf War, and the 1995 terrorist attack in the Tokyo
  subway.  General principles of psychology suggest strategies and
tactics for
  training and materiel development that should enhance military
performance
  and reduce maladaptive stress in CBR threat situations.  Some of these
practices
  may be relevant to nonmilitary law enforcement and relief agencies
that manage
  CBR threats.

page 395.

Now I transcribe some of the more relevant stuff.

  Effects of Chemical Protective Clothing on Military Performance:

  A Review of the Issues

  Gerald P. Krueger
  Star Mountain, Inc.
  Alexandria, Virginia

  Lous E. Banderet
  U.S. Army Research Institute of Environmental Medicine
  Natick, Massachusetts
	
  This review in this special issue of Military Psychology on the
effects of chemical
  protective clothing (CPC) on military performance provide a historical
perspective
  on continued anxieties over likely use of battlefield
chemical-biological weapons and
  summarizes significant concerns of military personnel weaning CPC in
training and
  combat.  This review describes pschophysiological stresses such
protective ensembles
  have on personnel and how these affect military performance, and it
summarizes major
  military psychological research program on the effect of wearing CPC. 
This article
  reviews what is known about wearing CPC, describes future CPC
developments, and 
  identifies domains for improved military training with CPC.

              MEDICAL AND PSYCHOLOGICAL EFFECT 
              OF C-B WEAPONS

  There are many medical, physiological and psychological reactions from
exposure to
  chemical-biological (C-B) weapons.  Many bio-warfare agents and most
chemical weapons
  are designed to interfere with function of the nervous system and to
disrupt normal control
  of vital organ systems that sustain life.  For example,  the more
common chemical war
  nerve agents involve organophosphate compounds,  similar to
insecticides, that inhibit 
  cholinesterase enzymes throughout the body.  Because cholinesterase
hydrolyzes 
  acetylcholine where ever liberated, this inhibition  results in
excessive concentrations of 
  acetylcholine at various sites - from the ending of the
parasympathetic nerves to smooth
  muscles of the iris, ciliary body, bronchi, gastrointestinal trace,
bladder, and blood  vessels;
  to secretary gland of the respiratory tract' and to endings of the
sympathetic nerves to sweat
  glands (Newhouse, 1987; Simmons et at 1989).  Exposure to large
amounts of nerve agent
  may lead to loss of muscle control, twitching, paralysis,
unconsciousness, convulsions,
  coma, and even death.  The most common cause of death after acute
exposure is respiratory
  arrest.  Death may occur within minutes or take several hours.
     In terms of psychological functioning, moderate but nonlethal
exposure to nerve agent 
  produces severe impairment in cognition, vigilance, memory and
language.  Acute
  intoxication produces confusion, drowsiness, and difficulty in
concentration (Newhouse,
  1987).  These impairment make it difficult to continue to perform may
soldier tasks.
  Effects on cognition may persist after only a slight exposure. 
Performance improvement
  appears to correlate with the body's regeneration of
acetycholinesterase, usually requiring
  several months.
    Neurophysychological testing (Newhouse, 1987) reveals that chronic
exposure to 
  organophosphates significantly impairs higher mental function
requiring use of the frontal
  lobes, particularly the left lobe.  Organophosphate poisoning
selectively  impairs memory of 
  recently learned information, and this impairment is likely related to
cholinergic involvement
  in the memory processes.  The effects include defects in long-term
memory, visual searching,
  and response alteration - effects similar to those caused by a frontal
lobotomy.  In chronically
  exposed individuals, speed of task performance and overall cognitive
efficiency also declines.
  Persistent visual impairments are reported in workers poisoned with
anticholinesterase 
  insecticides, and acute poisoning impair oculomotor function. 
Poisoning with nerve agents may
  also cause psychiatric disturbances such as depression.
    Use of C-B weapons results not only in large number of physical
casualties on the battlefield
  by in may psychological casualties as well.  Concern over the mere
threat that C-B weapons 
  might be used raises battlefield anxiety of combatants and can produce
a level of fear 
  disproportionate to that evoked by countless alternative conventional
battlefield means of
  killing or maiming, such a with guns, artillery, and bombs.  Such
anxieties can create large
  numbers of psychological stress casualties contribution to unit
ineffectiveness on the battlefield
  and combat losses.  Such adverse emotions may also cause posttraumatic
stress disorders after
  combat ceases.
		
		DEVELOPMENT OF COUNTERMEASURES
		FOR THE COMBAT THEATER

   Modern military forces recognize the C-B weapons can be the
attention-getting equivalent
  of a poor country's nuclear weapons.  Such weapons can be
counter-acted, however, and
  concerned nations prepare their forces to preserve their health and
safety against C-B
  warfare.   ...

I will send a complete copy to John Young.

So I skip to the next section.

			THE THREAT OF C-B WARFARE

  Although biological warfare was used centuries ago by the Romans and
was used in the
  14th century by the Tartars, who catapulted plague-infected bodies
into cities under
  siege (Hewish, 1997),  military forces have made scant use of
biological warfare in modern
  times.  The more recent innovation of chemical warfare dates to 1914
when the French used
  tear gas against unprotected German forces, who in turn introduced
chlorine and phosgene
  in 1915 and mustard gas in 1917 against the British, who sustained
14,000 casualties in
  3 months (Hewish, 1997).  May World Ware I soldiers were grotesquely
injured or died in gas
  war trenches in France and Russia;  Russia's gas casualties exceed a
half million, including
  50,000 fatalities (Westerhoff, 1980).
    In 1925, many countries signed a Geneva Protocol prohibiting first
use of chemical and
  bacteriological weapons.  However, during the 1930s, several
countries, notably Germany,
  encouraged chemists to develop chemical weapons as a by-product of
insecticide research
  production.  By World War II, Germany and powers stockpiled huge
caches of chemical, but
  probably due to fear of in-kind retaliation, chemical weapons were not
used in World War II.
  After the war, Germany's organophoshporous arsenal fell into Russian
hands, and for the next
  50 years, military forces relegated C-B warfare efforts to relatively
quiet development programs
  for future battlefields.
    Since World War II, C-B weapons have been employed several times on
a relatively small
  scale.  In the 1970s, the Vietnamese used chemical and "yellow rain"
biological agents in 
  Cambodian jungles, the Soviets used chemical in Afghanistan (U.S.
Department of State,
  1980), Iraq used sulfur mustard  and other chemical in the Iran-Iraq
conflict (1979-1980),
  and Iraq used chemical in 1980 - this time against its own people, the
northern Kurds 
  (Studeville, 1997).
    There have been periodic threats to use chemical weapons on a grand
scale.  In the 
  1970s, the Warsaw Pact possessed huge stockpiles of chemical weapons (
mostly soman,
  cyanide, and mustard gas), and Soviet chemical warfare teams openly
conducted extensive
  training in gas warfare tactics.  Such readiness for large scale C-B
warfare was underscored 
  in the Persian Gulf War of 1991, as Iraq threatened to use chemical
(sarin) and biologicals
  (anthrax spores) against coalition forces and possibly against
neighboring cities in Saudi 
  Arabia and Israel (Begley, Barry,  & Hager, 1991).  By January 1991,
Saudi Arabia had
  predug 50,000 graves planned for burying civilian (noncombat)
casualties expected to 
  succumb to Iraqi chemical poisoning from anticipated rocket attacks on
Saudi cities or
  aerosols drifting from the battlefields (Kaplan, 1991).
    Although Iraq did not unleash such chemical, and the battles were
ultimately short, 
  many U.S. military personnel may been exposed to chemical during the
March 1991
  destruction of Iraqi weapon stockpiled (mostly sarin) near Khamisiyah,
Iraq (Stuteville,
  1997).  The U. S. government continue to investigate whether exposures
to chemical 
  agents may have contributed to the so-called Gulf War illnesses
experienced by many 
  U.S. military veterans of that encounter.  Exposure of soldiers to
multiple chemical and
   and environmental stressors may be linked to psychophysiological
illnesses that manifest
  in symptomatology such as disabling fatigue, insomnia, malaise, joint
and muscle pains, 
  skin sores, hair loss, and gastrointestinal and respiratory
difficulties (Brown &
  Priest, 1996).  Others asset that U.S. military personnel were exposed
to Iraq chemical 
  warfare from Scud missiles, artillery and aircraft (Stuteville, 1997)

			PUBLIC CONCERN

  Open, frank, public news of existent military chemical stockpiles,
proliferation of chemical
  or biological weaponry, and periodic 'saber-ratting' threats to use
such weapons amplify world
  public concerns over the enormity of what someday could be a horrific
chemical or biological
  calamity.  Unprotected civilian populations fear they may be
deliberately attacked by 
  chemical and biological weapons or inadvertently by aerosol warfare
agents drifting into
  populated areas of a battlefield.  Disastrous incident like the one in
1984 at a chemical 
  factory in Bhopal, India, which killed over 2,000 people and sickened
countless others, 
  sensitized citizenry to the lethal potential of such chemical
compounds.  In 1995, terrorist
  attacks on the Tokyo subway, and news media discussion of possible use
of nerve agents in
  terrorist disruption of public gathering like the 1992 and 1996
Olympics, heightened Public
  fears over such chemical incidents have become almost visceral.  News
of recent advances
  in genetic technologies (Dando, 1997)  suggest use of future
biological weapons with
  unprecedented insidiousness and specificity is possible.  Moreover,
the mass media and media
  expert sources remind the public that the United States  may not be
adequately prepared or
  trained to defend itself against chemical or biological warfare (Beal,
1997).  ...

Send more money, of course.

Banderet's Ph. D. thesis article is

              Visual Marking Following Transient Adaptation

	Journal of the Optical Society of America, Vol 51, 7 955-958
	July 1971

Banderet has worked for US Army Institute of Environmental Medicine
since 1971.

Banderet is another of my former Ph. D. students. In human factors, not
computer science.

US soldiers, of course, need some tranquilizers to calm them down is the
face of such
threats.  To improve battlefield performance.

Keep in mind guys that the US goverment is not above killing a bunch of
its
own citizens for its own BUSINESS goals.

Keep up-wind
bill

Title: Untitled Document









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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Stephen Cobb, CISSP" 
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 21:09:33 -0800 (PST)
To: Ernest Hua 
Subject: Re: Cylink + NSA
In-Reply-To: <413AC08141DBD011A58000A0C924A6D50D7DAC@MVS2>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980228235649.007b3550@iu.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 02:24 PM 2/27/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Did anyone notice that Cylink just got a new VP of product development?
>Did anyone notice that this person just retired from the NSA?
>Care to guess the name and former rank?

Ern

For more about NSA + Cylink, see The Puzzle Palace : A Report on America's Most Secret Agency, James Bamford, Viking Press, 1983, ISBN: 0140067485. Also, The Stephen Cobb Complete Guide to PC&LAN Security, TAB-Windcrest-McGraw-Hill, 1991, ISBN: 0830632808, page 268.

Also, this was announced in a press release in January:
 
Former Deputy Director of the National Security Agency Brings Security Leadership to Strengthen Customer Relationships for Cylink and Drive Product Management

Cylink Corp. (NASDAQ:CYLK), a leading worldwide supplier of network security solutions, today names William P. Crowell Vice President, Product Management and Strategy. Crowell, recently retired from the United States National Security Agency (NSA) as Deputy Director, will partner with the senior management of Cylink customers worldwide to assist them in developing and implementing strategic business plans and solutions to meet their network security needs. He also will be responsible for Product Management of all Cylink offerings. Crowell brings 17 years of executive management experience in both private industry and government to Cylink. In his previous position at the NSA, he served as Deputy Director for 3.5 years and was chief operations officer of the Agency, guiding and directing the development of strategies and polices, and serving as the principal advisor to the Director. He has extensive technical and practical knowledge of the technologies needed to achieve integrated network security, including encryption technology, digital signatures, public key management, and infrastructure issues. He also has experience managing research and development projects, and programs associated with information systems deployment. 

Stephen
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Certified Information Systems Security Professional
tel: 1.407.383.0977 fx: 0336 email: scobb@miora.com
For information security info, http://www.miora.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: user3847@blue.com
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bpi@ns9.internetconnect.net
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 03:26:14 -0800 (PST)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: Being a Better Educator and Parent
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: jaqui5535@juno.com
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 07:18:07 -0800 (PST)
To: smartinvestors3@newsletter.com
Subject: Re: E-ALERT: URGENT BUY RECOMMENDATION
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Cronus Corporation
Symbol: C R O N
Recent Price: 1/2 ($.50/share)

Wall Street analysis from Harvard Equity Research has issued a
STRONG BUY recommendation on CRON stock.  Charles Blitzer
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with a "thrust into the $3-$4 range sometime in 1998".

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went from $3 1/2 to $9 in ten trading days!

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-------------------





























From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 10666148@08855.com
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 12:18:43 -0800 (PST)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: WANT TO KNOW A SECRET??
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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  message, then *, then 1) for additional information, or
        2. Leave a voice message (409-988-0413), or, if lines are busy,
        3. Respond by e-mail to alphaenterprises@yahoo.com.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: mktmaster23662@juno.com
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 22:04:26 -0800 (PST)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: HERE IS HOW TO BULK EMAIL...
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Press the reply button and type "remove" (without the quotes) in the 
subject heading to be removed from our list.  Thank You
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Here is how to bulk email your product, service,
or business opportunity SUCCESSFULLY...

FACT:
While there are many people who TRY to bulk email,
There are very few who do it successfully!

Why?:
Because many people buy bulk email software along with millions 
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INFORMATION they MUST HAVE to successfully bulk email.

Here is the rest of the information that the bulk email programs
and list sellers never give you that you MUST have.

For the beginner:

This site teaches you as if you were in the 1st Grade, with complete step-by-step INSTRUCTIONS, SOFTWARE & addresses
to start effective bulk emailing IMMEDIATELY, at speeds of
up to 250,000 emails per hour (and faster).

Don't pay someone else to send your bulk email...
You never know if it REALLY IS going out!
DO IT YOURSELF!


WE INCLUDE:

* COMPLETE INSTRUCTIONS on HOW to send Bulk Email!
* Information on SMTP servers
* "bulk friendly" ISPs
* How to Make sure your email is being delivered
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or point your browser to:  http://209.51.216.146/bulk.htm








































From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: majordomo@bulkemailserver.com
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 01:08:55 -0800 (PST)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: Please send information
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Please send us more information on your product, service, business and/or
money making opportunity.  We are always looking for more ways to make money
and looking for resources to refer to our customers.  You may send us your information
at insane.income2@mailexcite.com  Do not hit reply because we will not receive it.

Do you need a NEW IDENTITY/ NEW ID/ PRIVACY/ PROTECTION/ CREDIT?

If yes, send an email to our Auto Responder at newid-info@freeyellow.com
Within minutes you should automatically receive more detailed information.
There is no need to type a message to us because we will not see.
The auto responder is an automated service that is programmed to send 
what we have already entered.

Do to the HIGH DEMAND FOR THIS INFORMATION your email may
not go through.  If after 10 minutes you haven't received anything than
fax us at (209) 952-8555 and request the "NEW IDENTITY" information.

HURRY,  get the information NOW!  We have a time limited
SPECIAL OFFER.  The information says that special expires
on Feb. 16, 1998, but because of the holiday we have extended the
special 2 more days, until Feb. 18, 1998!

Thank you for your time.  Remember, please send us information
on your offer (please DO NOT fax it, email it only).

P.S.  If you want to find out how we got RICH from the internet
go to http://www.freeyellow.com/members2/insaneincome. 
FREE INFORMATION!  You may also email your request to
insane.income@mailexcite.com  Please state that you want
"FREE INFORMATION ON HOW TO GET RICH ON THE 
INTERNET" (Please DO NOT fax this request, email it only).

THANKS AGAIN!
financehelp@juno.com
financehelp@juno.com
financehelp@juno.com
financehelp@juno.com
financehelp@juno.com
insane.income@mailexcite.com
new.you@mailexcite.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: jtsr-stock@jtsr-stock.com
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 04:02:48 -0800 (PST)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: HOT STOCK-Double Your Money By Easter!!
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


You have been carefully selected to receive the following as a person obviously interested 
in this subject based upon your previous internet postings, or visits to one of our affiliate web
sites.  If you have received this message in error, please accept our apology as a 
responsible e-mailer, and reply with the word REMOVE in the subject line. You will be 
automatically excluded from future e-mailings. Thank you for your consideration and help
in making the Internet spam-free. *****

Visit http://www.jtsr-stock.com or call 888-295-6365 For Complete 
Information.

Who said opportunity only knocks once. JT's Restaurant is about to be one
of the fastest growing Restaurant chains. Under valued stock situations
presently $2.25 per share. Analysts predict stock to go as high as $5.00 
by Easter and could go up to $10.00 by end of 1998. Stock symbol JTSR on 
NASDAQ.  If you had invested just $100.00 in 1955 in Mcdonalds, it would 
be worth over $100 million today.  $1000 would be worth over $1 billion.  
Here is another opportunity for you.  Look for some exciting news shortly 
to boost this stock!!

Visit us at http://www.jtsr-stock.com or call 1-888-295-6365.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 57163566@compuserve.com
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 15:54:17 -0800 (PST)
To: urn@piegytt.com
Subject: You Also Have Rights!
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Are you tired of being underpaid for your hard 
work?

Do you want the admiration of your friends, relatives, 
and loved ones?

Are you seeking recognition as an accomplished and 
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If your answer is "Yes" to any of these questions, you 
need a diploma from a higher university.

Obtain bachelors, masters, and PhD diplomas from 
prestigious non-accredited universities for as little as $125.  

The only requirement is a brief interview by phone. 

Your diploma will be decorating your wall within hours.

For details call 1-773-506-4509.

When you call, after the message, at the tone, talk 
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1) Say that you are interested in the University 
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2)  Say your name, then spell your last name.

3)  Leave your daytime and nighttime phone 
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4)  Repeat these two phone numbers.

NOTE:  Leave phone numbers that you personally 
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mail numbers.  

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Hugh Daniel 
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 01:34:33 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks-announce@toad.com
Subject: ANNOUNCE: Cypherpunks February SF Bay Area Meeting
Message-ID: <199802120934.BAA28270@road.toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


What:  Cypherpunks San Francisco Bay area Phyical meeting
When:  Saturday February 14th, 1998 at 12:00 noon

Where: Network Associates, Inc
       Total Network Security division (formerly PGP, Inc)
       4500 Bohannon Drive, Menlo Park, California
Map:   http://maps.yahoo.com/yahoo/yt.hm?CMD=GEO&GMI=1&FAM=yahoo&SEC=geo&AD2=4500+Bohannon+Dr&AD3=Menlo+Park%2c+CA++94025-1029&GEOMC=3&recent=0
(More directions at end of email.)

Agenda:
	12:00	Random Access, Bag Lunch, Bad jokes etc.
	13:00	Linux FreeS/WAN _Tutorial_, Hugh Daniel
	15:00	Break, announcements
	15:30	OpenPGP, DDT & other NA/PGP folks
	16:30	Cypherpunks & CFP'98, group

DDT's Directions:

      Take 101 (from North or South)
      Exit at "Marsh Road/Atherton"
      Go West (young man) off exit (right exit lane coming south from SF).
      Turning to the West (away from the Bay / freeway)
      Get in Left lane immediately.
      Turn Left at very first light (Scott Drive, not far from freeway exit)
       (landmark: Shell gas station is on your right as you turn left)
      Go South on Scott ~2/3 mi (parallel to 101 freeway fence).
      Pass one Stop sign (do not turn yet).
      (landmark: Sun Microsystems has an office on the right)
	Scott curves to right, becomes Bohannon Drive.
	Turn left into first driveway: "Menlo Oak" Business Park
	Go straight through parking lot ~2-300 yds
	Curve 270 degrees around Fountain (effective left turn)
	#4500 is on left as you curve around fountain.
	Go down ~50 yds to main lobby entrance (south side of building).

	Ask reception for Dave Del Torto (call 415.730.3583 cel if any
	problem). Meeting room is behind reception area through first
	door on left. 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: majordomo@bulkemailserver.com
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 07:26:39 -0800 (PST)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: Do you need a NEW IDENTITY?
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Do you need a NEW IDENTITY/NEW ID/CREDIT/PROTECTION/PRIVACY/WEALTH?

LEAVE YOUR PAST BEHIND, FOR WHATEVER REASON!
GET AWAY FROM ABUSIVE SPOUSES...FOREVER.  START A NEW LIFE.

We can help!  All of the above is in the LIFE ENHANCEMENT KIT.

The LIFE ENHANCEMENT KIT is a COMPLETE, easy step by step do it yourself
kit.  There is nothing like it on the market today!  The kit contains compiled information
from many different sources.  In fact, it contains 4 LBS. of easy to use, up-to-date
life enhancement information!!!  For those of you that would like help,
***INFORMATION ON PAYING SOMEONE TO CREATE A TOTAL NEW
IDENTITY FOR YOU is located directly after the ordering information for the 
"Life Enhancement Kit."

YOU'LL LEARN:

1.  How to DISAPPEAR FOR GOOD.  Perfectly, for whatever reasons.
2.  How to create an identity out of thin air and make it work.
3.  Make the government itself create your new identity!
4.  How to get genuine id.
5.  How to obtain any type of supportive card you need.
6.  Changing citizenship from one country to another.
7.  How to get id in your new name - LEGALLY, without going to court.
8.  Inside secrets of fingerprinting, faking, altering, removing, YES it CAN be done!
9.  A step by step method of assembling a complete package of ALTERNATE ID, based on an original birth certificate.
10. Professional methods used before only by the top espionage agents - now for YOU to use.
11. YOU'LL LEARN HOW TO CREATE A TOTALLY NEW IDENTITY
(more than 10 different ways) with every supportive document you'll need.
12. You can KEEP YOUR PRESENT IDENTITY & HAVE A 2ND IDENTITY WITHOUT THEIR
PATHS CROSSING.  Or if you choose, the present you can "die" and use only the "NEW" YOU.

BEWARE, this is not that "simple"  new id bought through the mail that your teeenage brother
uses to impress his friends.  This is REAL! Seals, stamps, etc. EVERYTHING!

You'll also learn HOW TO CREATE A NEW BIRTH CERTIFICATE and make it look
authentic with a genuine hospital seal and rubber stamp, and "age" it in the oven.

Seeing is believing, folks...

You'll even find out which social security offices in every state to take your new "created"
birth certificate to get a NEW SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER AND CARD!  You'll find out
what other EASY TO OBTAIN documentation you'll need to take with you.  You'll even learn
what to say to the social security employees.

HURRY!  Get your new identity started now, you never know when a situation will arrive
that will cause you to need it.  BE READY!  The government is making it harder to create
identities each year, the harder it gets, the more money it's going to cost you and the more
time it will take.  GET IT NOW.  It's also a GREAT GIFT for your FRIEND OR FAMILY
who's having a hard time financially or is an abusive relationship!

***SPECIAL!!!  ALL OF THE ABOVE is contained in 5 EASY TO READ, STEP BY STEP
Books.  THE 5 BOOKS PLUS ALL OF THE FOLLOWING IS INCLUDED IN YOUR
"LIFE ENHANCEMENT KIT" FOR ONE LOW PRICE, if you order now!

CREDIT... We all need it.  How to get it, no matter what your credit file looks like now.
You will need this information to go with your NEW identity!  A NEW IDENTITY IS 
ALMOST USELESS WITHOUT ESTABLISHING CREDIT.

YOU'LL LEARN:

1.  How NEW files are created with NEW names.
2.  Banks with lowest interest rates.
3.  Cards with no annual fees.
4.  How to get UNSECURED credit NOW (INCLUDING VISA) even with bad
credit or no credit, addresses/phone numbers included.
5.  What credit cards are easiest to get.
6.  How to get a car loan or home loan with bad or little credit.  Yes, you too can have those things
regardless of what your credit reports say now.
7.  How to clear bad credit and ESTABLISH NEW CREDIT.
8.  How to find out what's on your credit file.
9.  What bankers look for on a loan application.
10. How to build a credit line of $100,000.00 OR MORE!  It's YOUR turn now.

GET ON WITH YOUR LIFE, this information will show you how.  YOU DON'T
HAVE TO KEEP PAYING FOR YOUR MISTAKES FOR THE NEXT 7-10 YEARS!

Also included in the LIFE ENHANCEMENT KIT IS:

1.  How to get a LEGITIMATE travel agent id card in any name you choose.
Use this card for HUGE DISCOUNTS, up to 90% and sometimes free, on
air fare, car rentals, hotels, cruises, amusement theme parks, ALL OVER THE WORLD!

2.  How to LEGALLY REDUCE your INCOME TAXES with an International Business
Corporation (IBC) and with an onshore corporation.  PLUS find out the MANY OTHER
BENEFITS these "legal people" can do for you  INCLUDING INTERNATIONAL
PROFITABLE WEALTH BUILDING BUSINESS OPPORTUNITIES, THAT ARE NOT
ADVERTISED IN THE USA.  These ARE NOT MLM.  You DO NOT NEED TO
RECRUIT ANYONE!

3.  Find out who can teach you how to KEEP YOUR FINANCIAL AFFAIRS PRIVATE...
MAINTAIN A LOW PROFILE... AND HOW TO HIDE IN PLAIN SIGHT!  How to keep 
most of your wealth, protect your assets and how to organize your affairs to result
in the lowest possible tax liability!  You can also find out how to LAWSUILT PROOF
YOURSELF!  Guaranteed to send a gold digger packing with his tail between his legs!

4.  Where to get information on how to LEGALLY FILE A $0.00 INCOME TAX RETURN
AND GET BACK WHAT YOU HAVE PREVIOUSLY PAID.

Plus spiritual and general tips!

ALL OF THE ABOVE, EVERYTHING FOR ONLY, HOW MUCH?   $99.95 plus $9.95 s&h
IF YOUR REQUEST IS SENT NO LATER THAN FEB. 19, 1998 (allow 10 business
days from the time we receive your request to receive your order, checks to longer) 
or ADD $15.00 for an EXPRESS ORDER (please allow 5 business days from the time we
receive your request, checks take longer).  What is it WORTH?  UNLIMITED!
CA residents add $7.75 sales tax.  For international orders add and additional $20 for
shipping.  U.S. DOLLARS ONLY.

Order by Feb. 19, 1998 and receive two FREE GIFTS REPORTS:
1.  "How to Get $1000 - $5000 FREE & CLEAR Within 30 days (It works! It takes a little
work, but it's worth it).
2.  "20 Businesses You Can Start From Home, and become RICH!"

If you order after Feb. 19, 1998 add on an additional $15.

Fax or mail your check (we take checks by fax too) or VISA/MasterCard information 
(CREDIT CARD NAME, BILLING ADDRESSES, billing addresses will be verified 
and orders will be mailed there, no exceptions, HOME PHONE NUMBER and area code are 
also required by VISA/MasterCard for order that are not in person AND CREDIT
CARD EXPIRTATION DATE), also send your email address just in case we need to contact you.

Fax number:
(209) 952-8555 (if faxing a check, fill in all of the information, 
tape it on a piece of paper, do not put tape over the check.  
Print your name and email address just in case we need to 
contact you if something is not clear on the check).  Include your mailing address if
different than address on check.  State "This is my check and I authorize your to take 
this one time draft out of my account for $______ (state the dollar amount, whatever
your wrote on the check).  It is not necessary to mail in the fax check.

Address: 
Noble State Ent.
1163 East March Lane, Suite D719
Stockton, CA 95210

You may also send us a money order by mail.

***BEFORE ORDERING ANYTHING SEE LEGAL WARNING BELOW!***
Also, with all orders, above and below state:  
"THIS IS NOT ENTRAPMENT OR A GOVERNMENT 
STING OPERATION, THIS INFORMATION WILL NOT BE USED AGAINST YOU. 
 I UNDERSTAND THERE ARE NO REFUNDS DUE TO  THE EASE OF USING 
AND/OR COPYING  THE INFORMATION."

Need HELP creating a new identity?  See below.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For a finder's fee of only $100 by Feb. 19, 1998 or $120 after, we'll have a company call you
that will CREATE A TOTAL NEW IDENTITY FOR YOU FOR ONLY $1595 (price may
go up soon, so order now if you're interested and have the money).  DO NOT send the
$1595 to us, send only the finder's fee to us of $100 or $120.  You will pay the other company 
the $1595 later. Include with your order, 3 dates and times for someone to call you and a 
phone number with  area code (NO PAGERS OR 800#'s, but phone booths are o.k. if it will 
take incoming calls because not all do).  IF YOU WANT THIS PLEASE STATE WITH ORDER 
" I WANT SOMEONE TO CREATE A NEW IDENTITY FOR ME."  Because you may get the Life 
Enhancement Kit by accident if you don't, and there are no refunds.  You may also get the 
Life Enhancement Kit (excluding the 5 new identity books) for only $25.00 plus the $100  or $120 
finder's fee, whichever is applicable. Sales tax and shipping are included.  Add $15 for EXPRESS ORDERS.

***WARNING!!!  You must be 18 years or older to purchase this information.  This information 
is provided for ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY!  Neither the writers, producers,
or distributers assume any responsibility for the use or misuse of any information presented.
The FRAUDULENT USE OF ID IS ILLEGAL and punishable by fine and/or imprisonment!

P.S. THIS IS A ONE TIME MAILING FROM US (unless you have more than one
email address)  NO NEED TO TYPE REMOVE. 

ATTN. FLAMERS,  We don't mean to offend you,
but we ALL get unsolicited mail from the postal service EVERYDAY, this is the same
thing, it's just a part of life and IT IS NOT ILLEGAL TO DO IT.  There is really no need
to be angry.  By the way, too much anger is bad for your health, RELAX AND ENJOY
LIFE!  PEACE TO YOU!  






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 42197929@ix.netcom.com
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 05:29:45 -0800 (PST)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: Pharmaceutical, Biotech, & Laboratory Companies
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Pharmaceutical, Biotech, & Laboratories throughout the world 
use lyophilization (freeze-drying) equipment for preservation, 
concentration, and product development concepts.  Until now the
costs to employ this technology have been extremely high and 
operation has been complicated.

Ultra-Dry freeze-dryers are cost efficient, user friendly, 
portable and affordable.  These freeze-dryers are the answer to 
your needs from simple drying requirements to sterile product
development, packaging and validation.

If this information is applicable to another department in your 
organization please forward.

Explore the possibilities and click here at 
http://www.freezedry.com/html/upage1.html




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: EasyMoney@MoneyMakers.com
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 08:08:12 -0800 (PST)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: Sorry this took so long...call me at home when you get this...
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Alex...here is that E-Mail I got that made me the money to get my new Entertainment system you liked so much. Tell Sarah I said hello, and call me when you get this.

  I Never Thought I'd Be the One Telling You This!!
"I Invested $20 and I'm Going to Europe on My Earnings!"

Hello, Friends!

My name is Karen Liddell; I'm a 35-year-old mom, wife, and 
part-time accountant.  As a rule, I ignore all unsolicited
"junk" e-mail and use my account primarily for business. 
I received this very same e-mail countless times and 
deleted it each time.

About two months ago I received it again and, because of 
the catchy subject line,  I finally gave it my attention. 
Afterwards, I thought, "OK, I'm going to try this.  I can
certainly afford to invest $20 and there's nothing wrong 
with creating a little excess cash." I promptly mailed four
$5 bills and, after receiving the reports, paid a friend
a small fee to send bulk e-mail for me.  After reading
the reports, I also learned how to advertise for free!

Let me tell you this:  I was not prepared for the results.
Everyday for the last six weeks, my large P.O. box has been 
literally overflowing with $5 bills; many days the excess 
fills up an extra mail bin!  I am STUNNED by all the money 
that keeps rolling in!

My husband and I had been trying to save for a down payment
on a house.  Now, not only are we purchasing a house with
40% down, we're going to Venice, Italy to celebrate!

I promise you, if you follow the steps in this e-mail and
be prepared to set aside about an hour each day to follow
up (and count your money!), you will make at least as much 
money as we did. You don't need to be a whiz at the computer
but I'll bet you already are. If you can open an envelope,
remove the money, and send an e-mail, then you're on your
way to the bank. Read this e-mail a few times so you'll 
understand how easy it is. If I can do this, so can you!

                GO FOR IT NOW!!  IT REALLY WORKS!!

                Karen Liddell

The following is a copy of the e-mail I read:

  $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $
         This is a LEGAL, MONEY-MAKING PHENOMENON!!!  
    We suggest you PRINT this letter, read the directions, 
                   THEN READ THEM AGAIN!  
  $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $

You are about to embark on the most PROFITABLE and UNIQUE 
program you may ever see.  Many times over, it has proven 
its ability to generate LARGE AMOUNTS of CASH. This program
is showing fantastic appeal with a huge and ever-growing
on-line population desirous of additional income.

This is a legitimate, LEGAL, money-making opportunity.  It 
does not require you to come in contact with people, do any
selling, and you don't even have to leave the house except 
to get the mail and go to the bank!  

Simply follow the easy instructions in this letter, and 
soon your financial dreams will come true! When followed 
correctly, this electronic, multi-level marketing program 
works perfectly...100% EVERY TIME!

Thousands of people have used this program to:
    -  Raise capital to start their own business
    -  Pay off debts
    -  Buy homes, cars, etc., 

This is your chance, so don't pass it up!

     $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $
             OVERVIEW OF THIS EXTRAORDINARY  
        ELECTRONIC MULTI-LEVEL MARKETING PROGRAM    
     $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $

This is what you will do to reach financial freedom:

You will send thousands of people a product for $5.00 which 
costs next to nothing to produce and e-mail. As with all 
multi-level businesses, you will increase your business by 
building your downline and selling the products.  Every 
state in the U.S. allows you to recruit new multi- level 
business online (via your computer).

The products in this program are a series of four business 
reports costing $5.00 each.  Each order you receive via 
postal mail will include:

  * $5.00 cash
  * The name and number of the report they are ordering
  * The e-mail address where you will send them the report 
    they ordered.
  * Their postal address (a great way to build a database 
    of opportunity seekers for your future endeavors). 

To fill each order, simply e-mail the product to the buyer.
              THAT'S IT!  THE $5.00 IS YOURS!
This is the EASIEST multi-level marketing business anywhere!

  $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $
         FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS EXACTLY AND BE 
       PREPARED TO REAP THE STAGGERING BENEFITS! 
  $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $

   * * * * * I  N  S  T  R  U  C  T  I  O  N  S * * * * *

1.  Order all 4 reports shown on the list below (you can't 
    sell them if you don't order them).
     
   *  For each of the 4 reports, send $5 CASH ONLY, the NAME and
      NUMBER OF THE REPORT YOU ARE ORDERING, YOUR E-MAIL
      ADDRESS, and YOUR POSTAL ADDRESS to the person whose
      name is listed under the corresponding report.

   *  Make sure you order each of the 4 reports.  You need
      all 4 reports to save on your computer and resell.

   *  Within 5 to 7 days you will receive, via e-mail, 
      each of the four reports. Save them on your computer
      so they will be accessible for you to send to the 
      thousands of people who will order them from you.

2.  IMPORTANT-- DO NOT alter the names of the people who are
    listed under each report, in any way other than is 
    instructed below in steps "a" through "f" or you will 
    lose out on the majority of your profit. Once you 
    understand how this program works, you'll also see how 
    it doesn't work if you change it. Remember, this method
    has been tested, and if you alter it, it will not work.

    a.  Look below for the listing of available reports.

    b.  After you've ordered the four reports, take this 
        advertisement and remove the name and address under 
        REPORT #4. This person has made it through the cycle
        and is no doubt counting their 50 grand!

    c.  Move the name and address under REPORT #3 down to
        REPORT #4.  

    d.  Move the name and address under REPORT #2 down to 
        REPORT #3.

    e.  Move the name and address under REPORT #1 down to
        REPORT #2.

    f.  Insert your name/address in the REPORT #1 position.

  =3D=3D> Please copy all names and addresses ACCURATELY!!! <=3D=3D

3.  Take this entire letter, including the modified list of
    names, and save it to your computer.  Make NO changes 
    to the instruction portion of this letter.
  
4.  Now you're ready to start an advertising campaign on 
    the WORLDWIDE WEB!  Advertising on the WEB is very 
    inexpensive, and there are HUNDREDS of FREE places
    to advertise. Another avenue which you could use for 
    advertising is investing in bulk e-mail services by
    paying someone a minimal charge to advertise for you. 

5.  For every $5.00 you receive, all you must do is e-mail
    them the report they ordered.  THAT'S IT!  ALWAYS 
    PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON ALL ORDERS!  This will 
    guarantee that the e-mail THEY send out, with YOUR name
    and address on it, will be prompt because they can't
    advertise until they receive the report!

 ***************************************************************
                  AVAILABLE REPORTS    
             Order Each REPORT by NUMBER and NAME 
 ***************************************************************
Notes:
-  ALWAYS SEND $5 CASH (NO CHECKS) FOR EACH REPORT
-  Make sure the cash is concealed by wrapping it in at 
   least two sheets of paper  
-  On one of those sheets of paper, include: (a) the number
   & name of the report you are ordering, (b) your e-mail 
   address, and (c) your postal address.  It is suggested 
   that you rent a mailbox addressed to an assumed "company"
   name to avoid your name and home address being sent to
   millions of people. For an example, see the "company" 
   names listed below.
___________________________________________________________
REPORT #1 "HOW TO MAKE $250,000 THROUGH MULTI-LEVEL SALES" 

ORDER REPORT #1 FROM: 
 
      CIC
      120 Cedar Grove Ln
      Suite 314 
      Somerset NJ 08873
      
       
___________________________________________________________
REPORT #2 "MAJOR CORPORATIONS AND MULTI-LEVEL SALES"

ORDER REPORT #2 FROM:

       PAO
      149-06 24th Ave.
      Whitestone, NY 11357
  
___________________________________________________________
REPORT #3 "SOURCES FOR THE BEST MAILING LISTS"

ORDER REPORT #3 FROM:

        SSAI
       P.O. Box 1834
       Bonita, Ca.  91908-1834
   
___________________________________________________________
REPORT #4 "EVALUATING MULTI-LEVEL SALES PLANS"

ORDER REPORT #4 FROM:
          
         NDZ, Inc.
        1579F Monroe Drive
        Box 240
        Atlanta, Ga.  30324

           
___________________________________________________________
  
$ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $=
 $ $
 HERE'S HOW THIS AMAZING PROGRAM WILL MAKE YOU $MONEY$ 
$ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $=
 $ $

Let's say you start small just to see how it works. Assume 
your goal is to get 10 people on your first level. (Placing
a lot of FREE ads on the internet will EASILY get a larger
response.) Also assume that everyone in YOUR ORGANIZATION 
gets ONLY 10 downline members.  Follow this example to 
achieve the STAGGERING results below.

Level 1: your 10 members with $5. . . . . . . . . . . . .$50
Level 2: 10 members from those 10 ($5 x 100). . . . . . $500
Level 3: 10 members from those 100 ($5 x 1,000). . . .$5,000
Level 4: 10 members from those 1,000 ($5 x 10,000). .$50,000
                      THIS TOTALS    ----------->    $55,550

Remember: this assumes that the people who participate only
recruit 10 people each.  Think what will happen when they 
get 20 people to participate! Most people get 100's of 
participants!  THINK ABOUT IT!!!

       $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $
       $   TIPS FOR YOUR SUCCESS   $
       $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $

* TREAT THIS AS YOUR BUSINESS!  Be prompt, professional, 
  and follow the directions accurately.

* Send for the four reports IMMEDIATELY so you will have 
  them when the orders start coming in because:

     When you receive a $5 order, you MUST send the report
     to comply with U.S. Postal & Lottery Laws, Title 18,
     Sections 1302 and 1341 or Title 18,  Section 3005 in
     the U.S. Code, also Code of Federal Regs. vol. 16, 
     Sections 255 and 436, which state that "a product or 
     service must be exchanged for money received."

* Be patient and persistent! Follow the steps exactly and
  you WILL undoubtedly be SUCCESSFUL!

* HAVE FAITH IN YOURSELF AND KNOW YOU WILL SUCCEED!

       $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $
       $   YOUR SUCCESS GUIDELINE    $
       $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $

=3D=3D> Follow these guidelines to GUARANTEE YOUR SUCCESS <=3D=3D

If you don't receive 20 orders for REPORT #1 within 2 weeks,
keep advertising until you do.  Then, 2 weeks later, if you
receive less than 100 orders for REPORT #2, keep advertising
until you do. Once you have received 100 or more orders for
REPORT #2, YOU CAN RELAX, because the system is already 
working for you, and the $$CASH$$ will continue to roll in!

   =3D=3D> HOW YOU WILL KNOW THE PROGRAM IS WORKING <=3D=3D

Every time your name is moved down on the list, you are 
placed under a DIFFERENT report.  You can KEEP TRACK of 
your progress by watching which report people are ordering 
from you.  If you want to generate more income, send 
another batch of your advertisement (with you in the #1 
position) and start the process again!  There is no limit 
to the income you will generate from this business!

      ***************************************
        T  E  S  T  I  M  O  N  I  A  L  S  
      ***************************************

   This program does work, but you must follow it EXACTLY!
Especially the rule of not trying to place your name in a 
different position, it won't work and you'll lose a lot of 
potential income.  I'm living proof that it works.  It 
is a great opportunity to make very easy money, with little
investment.  If you participate, follow the program exactly
and you'll be on your way to financial security.
          Sean McLaughlin, Jackson, MS

     My name is Frank. My wife, Doris, and I live in 
Bel-Air, MD. I am a cost accountant with a major U.S. 
Corporation and I make pretty good money. When I received 
the program I grumbled to Doris about "junk mail." I made 
fun of the whole thing, spouting my knowledge of the 
population and percentages involved.  I "knew" it wouldn't 
work. Doris totally ignored my supposed intelligence and 
jumped in with both feet. I made merciless fun of her, and 
was ready to lay the old "I told you so" on her when the 
thing didn't work... well, the laugh was on me!  Within 
two weeks she had received over 50 responses. Within 45 
days she had received over $147,200 in $5 bills! I was 
shocked!  I was sure that I had it all figured and that it
wouldn't work.  I AM a believer now. I have joined Doris in
her "hobby."   I did have seven more years until retirement,
but I think of the "rat race" and it's not for me. We owe it
all to MLM.
           Frank T., Bel-Air, MD

    The main reason for this letter is to tell you that 
this system is honest, lawful, extremely profitable, and is
a way to get a large amount of money in a short time. I was
approached several times before I checked this out. I 
joined just to see what one could expect in return for the
minimal effort and money required.  To my astonishment, I 
received $36,470.00 in the first 14 weeks, with money still
coming in.
           Sincerely yours, Phillip A. Brown, Esq.

    Not being the gambling type, it took me several weeks
to make up my mind to participate in this plan. But being 
conservative, I decided that the initial investment was so 
little that there was no way that I wouldn't get enough 
orders to at least get my money back. Boy, was I surprised
when I found my medium-size post office box crammed with 
orders!  For awhile, it got so overloaded that I had to 
start picking up my mail at the window. I'll make more 
money this year than any 10 years of my life before. There 
simply isn't a better investment with a faster return.
         Mary Rockland, Lansing, MI

This is my third time to participate in this plan. My 
wife and I have quit our jobs, and will soon buy a home at 
the beach and live off the interest on our money.  The 
only way this plan will work for you is if you do it. For 
your sake, and for your family's sake don't pass up this 
opportunity.  Good luck and happy spending!
           Charles Fairchild, Spokane, WA

          $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $
           ORDER YOUR REPORTS TODAY AND GET  
                STARTED ON YOUR ROAD TO   
                   FINANCIAL FREEDOM!!!   
          $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 89485650@cts.com
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 21:11:59 -0800 (PST)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: Pre- approved Guaranteed Merchant Accounts ! !
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





                    INCREASE YOUR SALES! !
ACCEPT  CREDIT CARDS! PRE-APPROVED APPLICATION
 Good Credit/Bad Credit/No Credit NO APPLICATION FEES

 For a Limited Time Only!!! Regular $195.00 Application Fee Waived
For This   Offer!!! PLUS FREE SET-UP FOR ACCEPTING
               CHECKS  BY FAX OR BY PHONE

  Increase Your Business By 30% to 100% Just By Accepting Credit Cards
        We Specialize in Home Based Businesses - APPLY TODAY!!!
         Accept Visa, Mastercard,  American Express, and  Discover!

 If you are interested in the merchant account please call:   (800) 400-8532
  24 HRS A DAY 7 DAYS A WEEK PLEASE LEAVE YOUR NAME, NUMBER,
  AND THE BEST TIME TO CALL YOU. Please be sure to include your source code
          CJK2929-WRN04  to ensure that your application fee is waived.
************************************************************************************************
           This  Pre-Approved  Merchant  Account Application  has
              NO  APPLICATION FEES!! This is a one time mailing.



------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


 








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: overseas@4link.net
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 02:33:35 -0800 (PST)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: AN EXCITING OVERSEAS JOB IS WAITING FOR YOU!
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


CAPITALIZE ON YOUR TRUE WORTH!
**********************************************************************
Earn up to $72,000 (US Dollars) annually tax-free working abroad!
Yes, by law you are entitled to earn up to $72,000 in annual earnings
working outside of the US without paying any US income taxes.
**********************************************************************

Hundreds of companies are aggressively hiring American talent for
lucrative jobs worldwide.  After extensive research, INTERNATIONAL
RESEARCH & DATA INSTITUTE (IRDI) is now publishing its latest
edition of a directory which will provide you with key leads to a specific
recruiter or employer that can offer you a fantastic overseas career
opportunity.

International Search Firms: IRDI's Directory of International Recruiters
and Employers has a section which provides up-to-date detailed
information on executive search firms all over the world which are
currently seeking qualified candidates to fill positions for their client
companies. If they place you with one of their clients, the client pays
their search fee. It's a total win situation for you!

International Direct Job Opportunities: Our Directory has a separate
section which provides key leads directly to companies which are
currently seeking capable candidates to fill positions which they have
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The listings in IRDI's Directory cover many fields:

Accounting* Chem./Petrochemical* Engineering* Oil & Gas* Advertising*
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Banking* Public Relations* Automotive* Construction* Health Care*
Transportation* Aviation/Aerospace* Data Processing* Human Resources*
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If your target field is not listed above, contact us and we will research and
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or email us from our website; http://www.overseaswork.com

Get the edge by acquiring our up-to-date Directory.  If you are a skilled
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Our detailed guidelines will assist you to apply for overseas jobs listed with
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Our Directory listings are continually updated from leading worldwide
on-line databases and regular contact with international employers and
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and Employers for only $39.95 (shipping and tax included).

We want to do all we can to make your new career in the international
marketplace a resounding success!  If you wish, we can provide you
with an effectively composed internationally formatted resume at an
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worksheet (which you will find at the end of your Directory),
and we will call you with a quote.

Once your resume is prepared, we can also mail your resume to your
selected targets at a nominal expense over our direct out-of-pocket
costs (e.g. postage, stationery, printing, etc.).
Our Fax is (213) 380-1288 Phone: (213) 385-0557, or (213) 385-8388

THIS WILL BE THE FIRST STEP IN THE MOST IMPORTANT
CAREER DECISION OF YOUR LIFE!  ORDER NOW!

Send check or money order for $39.95 payable to:

International Research & Data Institute
Attn: Research Department
Howard Hughes Center, Fifth Floor
6601 Center Drive West
Los Angeles, CA 90045

Please include your name, return address & telephone number.

********************************************************************************
Obtain the current issue (via COD); Send us an inquiry to our address
above, or call us at (213) 385-0557. After business hours please leave
a message giving us your name, address and phone number. You can
also Email us your COD order to;
IRDI@overseaswork.com (please put "COD Order" as the subject)

Directory of International Recruiters and Employers,
via COD is $49.95, (tax, shipping and COD charges included).
********************************************************************************

P.S. Feel free to visit our Web Site and learn more about us @
www.overseaswork.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 67471470@30410.com
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 00:33:26 -0800 (PST)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: LOWER YOUR CHILD SUPPORT!!!
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




LOWER YOUR CHILD SUPPORT!!!

Don't be a DEADBEAT DAD!!!

Join the FATHERS' RIGHTS COALITION and learn how to legally reduce
your court-ordered child support WITHOUT AN ATTORNEY.Millions of FATHERS 
have been unjustly labeled as DEADBEAT DADS because they cannot afford 
to pay their child support due to factors beyond their control such as unemployment,
under employment, and unforeseen or unexpected expenses.

Most fathers are treated unfairly by the courts because they cannot afford the expense
of an attorney.  Even worse, fathers that employ an attorney to assist them in trying to 
obtain a child support reduction end up having to explain to the court why they can
pay an attorney and not pay child support. 

Failure to fully pay your child support can cause you to lose your drivers, business or
professional license.  As well, owing child support can ruin your credit rating and 
prevent you from obtaining employment.  Your failure to pay all of your child support 
can cause you to be jailed or imprisoned. Ignorance or inaction could totally ruin your life!

For only $49.90 you can join the FATHERS' RIGHTS COALITION and receive with
your membership the publication entitled REDUCE YOUR CHILD SUPPORT
WITHOUT AN ATTORNEY.

REDUCE YOUR CHILD SUPPORT WITHOUT AN ATTORNEY is an easy-to-read publication
which could instruct you as to the law and procedure required to obtain your right to a reduction 
from your present child support order.  As well, this publication will inform you on how to dispute 
and/or reduce past child support arrearages, interest and penalties.

As a member, you can also receive information on low-cost paralegal services which can assist 
you in preparation of the court forms necessary to reduce your child support..  

As a member, you will receive the FATHERS' RIGHTS COALITION NEWSLETTER.  
This newsletter contains information about recent changes in the child support laws and tips 
on presenting your case in court.As a member, you will be making a statement to the politicians 
that you're tired of being abused by the law and the courts.

Most importantly, as a member you can educate yourself in the court process and 
obtain your rights to due process and a fair child support order.

One of our members (who had only a high school education) was able to obtain a child support
order of $.00 dollars (zero) for over eighteen (18) months. (Superior Court of the State of California,
County of Siskiyou, Coonrod v. Coonrod, Case No. 35594)

TO JOIN fill in the application and mail to the address
with your one-time membership fee of $49.90.  
(Allow 2-4 weeks for delivery of REDUCE YOUR CHILD SUPPORT WITHOUT AN ATTORNEY)


Send the completed application with $49.90, one-time membership fee ,to:


				FATHERS RIGHTS COALITION
				702 Mangrove Ave.,  Suite 134
				Chico,  CA 95926


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 

YES, I want to join the  FATHERS' RIGHTS COALITION.  I have enclosed $49.90 for the lifetime membership.  
Upon receipt of my application and membership, send me REDUCE YOUR CHILD SUPPORT WITHOUT AN ATTORNEY..
                               
                               E-Mail Address _________________
                                                                                                                                 002
		
                                Name______________________________________

 		Address______________________________________

		City__________________ State ________  Zip 	_________










From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 13:52:33 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Return of Bass-O-Matic (was PGP)
Message-ID: <199803010600.AAA01504@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 15:25:00 +1000
> From: Reeza! 
> Subject: PGP

> I'm looking for some real information on PGP.
> I have a friend who swears up and down that every version of PGP since the
> first one has been compromised by key escrow and is not really safe.
> 
> Does anyone know where the source for the *original* version of PGP can be
> found? 

Holy bezesus...

It just so happens that I have a copy of pgp10.arj and pgp10src.arj.

Send me a note and I'll make arrangements to get them to you provided you're
in the US and a US citizen (I hate these fuckin' laws - I wanna be paid for
this shit!).


    ____________________________________________________________________

                When a man assumes a public trust, he should
                consider himself public property.

                                         Thomas Jefferson
                                     _____                         
       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Rabid Wombat 
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 03:33:29 +0800
To: Ross Wright 
Subject: Re: AnyWho puts a reverse phone book on the Net
In-Reply-To: <199802260451.UAA01651@rigel.cyberpass.net>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




I tried one of these when tracking down some dial-in system abuse being 
perpetrated by an ex-employee.

It occurred to me that with the right hardware, a simple perl script 
could launch a cruise-missle strike in response to a dial-in to a phone 
number ...  ;)

(for a good time, call 1-555-2nukeme)

food for thought for the paranoids and/or x-files fans.



On Wed, 25 Feb 1998, Ross Wright wrote:

> From:
> 
>     T a s t y   B i t s   f r o m   t h e   T e c h n o l o g y   F r o n t
>     This issue: < http://www.tbtf.com/archive/02-23-98.html >
>     ________________________________________________________________________
> 
> ..AnyWho puts a reverse phone book on the Net
> 
>   And personal privacy slips a bit more
> 
>     If you live in the US and your phone number is listed, visit this
>     site [25] and type in your number. AT&T's AnyWho will return your
>     name and address. Is your street name linked? If so, click to see
>     names and numbers for all of your neighbors. Want a map to your
>     house? It's one click away. (Like most such maps, however, the
>     correspondence of street address with map location can be wildly
>     wrong.) The street proximity search will not show unlisted numbers,
>     800- or 888- numbers, or "distinctive ring" alternate numbers.
> 
>     AnyWho is not the first reverse phone book on the Net -- 555-1212
>     has that distinction [26] -- but it is the most feature-rich. It
>     has a "sounds like" match for last name lookups. It lets you edit
>     or delete your entry, and requires confirmation by a telephone call
>     from the phone number in question. And it combines white and yellow
>     pages -- 90M and 10M listings respectively -- though their output
>     remains separate. When you ask for a street proximity listing for a
>     business listing, you see only other businesses.
> 
>     [25] http://www.anywho.com:81/telq.html
>     [26] http://www.555-1212.com/whte_us.htm
> 
> =-=-=-=-=-=-
> Ross Wright
> King Media: Bulk Sales of Software Media and Duplication Services
> http://ross.adnetsol.com
> Voice: (408) 259-2795
> 
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "James A. Donald" 
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 04:27:22 +0800
To: Tim May 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



    --
At 06:20 PM 3/6/98 -0800, Tim May wrote:
> How could any "outlawing of unescrowed crypto" conceivably
> deal with this vast amount of distributed software? Will a
> user of RSA's MailSafe program face jail time for using a
> program he legally bought in 1991 (as I did)?
>
> More questions than answers. Can anybody help me to
> understand the legal issues?

You are getting out of date.  As the rule of law dissolves,
legal issues become insignificant, and will in due course
vanish altogether.

For example nobody knows what are the "legal issues" with
putting strong crypto on a web site, as I have done.
According to what the legislation says, what I have done is
completely in accord with legislation.  Indeed, it is
completely in accord with US legislation simply to post the
stuff. on any server inside the US, the foreigner doing the
download is violating the legislation, not the person who put
it up.  I have gone considerably further than is required by
legislation, though not nearly as far as some others have
gone.

But mere legislation counts for less and less these days.  If
you read the business press, you will frequently read them
complain of cases where the distinctions between executive,
legal, and judicial powers are effectively dissolved, and
penalties are in effect adminstratively applied for undefined
offences, or retrospectively and administratively defined
offences, often in ways that appear to personally enrich those
administering these quasi judicial powers.

Generally this sort of thing is only applied to people who
are unpleasant and unpopular.  Tobacco companies, junk bond
merchants whose businesses have been more profitable for
themselves than for many of their investors, and the like.
Of course this creates a large vested interest in demonizing
more and more people, so that more and more people can be
dealt with in this fashion.

Similar measures are applied not only to alleged recreational
drug distributors, but to lawyers who defend alleged
recreational drug distributors, but the business press tends
to report such cases less. 

Meanwhile formerly totalitarian countries, such as China and
Cuba, where there used to be no such things as laws, merely
some people having the power to harm other people, power
exercised in accordance with rules that those subject to this
power were forbidden to know, are moving towards the rule of
law.  It used to be that if someone imprisoned in Cuba were
to discover the actual reason for his imprisonment, he might
possibly suffer some draconian additional punishment for
improper possession of state secrets.

In a fully totalitarian state, the regime does not have rules
for most people, merely goals and desires.  If some desire is
not fulfilled, the masters will go around killing people more
or less at random until somebody fulfills that desire, or
until they have killed so many people that they suspect that
what they desire is not readily achievable, or sometimes
until they simply run out of people who might be able to
assist in fulfilling that desire.  For example all people
possessing certain skills and experience were wiped out by

Stalin, and in Cambodia everyone connected to the jute
industry in any way. Such rules as exist only apply to the
privileged, to those administering the terror, not to those
terrorized.

Crypto legislation is likely to resemble the announcement of 
a desire, rather than the announcement of rules and 
restrictions likely to fulfill that desire.  Indeed, the
proposals we have so far seen are desires, not rules. 

As you point out, that desire cannot be fulfilled, except by
means that further radically undermine the rule of law.


    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     KheXnmd1kekBNA4gB1wyUeQgjPT7Y26FWeajCBIR
     43jg9sJBVPllkPf+Yt2ByoAf/sIdt9xbXwh/wMV+Z






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 01:19:03 +0800
To: pnet@proliberty.com
Subject: RTFM
In-Reply-To: <279b5b66b1c8ac3768a7bfc174f33a21@anon.efga.org>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 7:12 AM -0800 3/15/98, Anonymous wrote:

>I wish Schneier indicated _how_ one makes compressible ciphertext. I am
>certainly no expert here. Have much reading to do!

Offhand, there are many ways to "pad out" ciphertext so as to make it more
compressible by standard compression algorithms.

-- duplicate every character several times, right after it first appears.
This clearly lets a compressor find "compression patterns." True, it looks
pretty obvious to a human eyeball, but it shows the theme.

-- insert sonnets from Shakespear. Same as above.

-- generally, lower the entropy by duplication, insertion, lengthening.


>> There have been hundreds of articles and comments here and on other mailing
>> lists about this. Not that your ideas are not welcome, just to let you know
>> why it's likely your ideas won't be met with a rush of excitement. You
>> might try finding these old analyses and seeing what you can add.
>>
>
>A polite "no amatuers allowed in the clubhouse." How does TCM expect the
>newcomers to learn, if no one will share their accumulated knowledge? That
>is the reason I signed up for this list - to _learn_.

Not a "no amateurs allowed." Not at all. Just an obvious comment that one
cannot expect those of us who've been on the list for years to rewrite and
rewrite and rewrite the same essays. Search engines will turn up much
discussion. If newcomers are too lazy to read Schneier, to read the FAQs,
to read some of the many thousands of articles so conveniently accessible
with search engines, I have no sympathy for them.


--Tim May

Just Say No to "Big Brother Inside"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^3,021,377   | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Martin Minow 
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 01:13:58 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Encryption without encryption - from Ron Rivest
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/enriched

 In a paper entitled "Chaffing and Winnowing: Confidentiality without
Encryption," Ron Rivest describes a method of transmitting a document
that gives an evesdropper no information about the content of the
document. 

"Winnowing does not employ encryption, and so does not have a``decryption key.''  Thus, the usual arguments in favor of ``keyrecovery'' don't apply very well for winnowing.  As usual, the policydebate about regulating technology ends up being obsoleted bytechnological innovations.  Trying to regulate confidentiality byregulating encryption closes one door and leaves two open(steganography and winnowing)."

Martin Minow
minow@apple.com






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Kurt Buff 
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 15:20:14 +0800
To: "'cypherpunks@toad.com>
Subject: RE: CIA Trained Gorilla Femnists
Message-ID: <01BD5C30.8CD50C00.kurtbuff@halcyon.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

worst case of performance anxiety I've ever heard of...

On Tuesday, March 24, 1998 5:23 PM, TruthMongrer [SMTP:tm@dev.null] 
wrote:
| Male Gorilla, Released to Mate
|                with Females, Drops Dead
| 
|                AP
|                24-MAR-98
| 
| TOKYO (AP) The excitement, or perhaps the pressure, apparently was 
too
| much for Sultan. The 28-year-old male gorilla, specially moved to a 

| cage to mate with three females, instead dropped dead. 
| 
| The 400-pound lowland gorilla ran around briefly and played with 
his 
| new friends Monday, then suddenly collapsed, apparently after 
suffering 
| a heart attack, said Kunihiko Yasui, head of animal breeding at 
Kyoto 
| Muni
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0
Charset: noconv

iQA/AwUBNR188Q3xegzLXcRmEQKAmgCggAQiHNO9OLy+D87pgdF9HuqXm5wAoMOF
nsU45G3tEXdRYQOojSZAi2qa
=oaNe
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Sergey Bobok" 
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 06:55:49 +0800
To: 
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199805272108.OAA21191@cygint.cygnus.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ian Briggs 
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 11:33:58 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199807140330.UAA13890@rigel.infonex.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Well since it looks like its a valid converstation peace here, I might as
well give ya my 2 bits worth.




>>http://www.ourfirsttime.com
>>
>>aww... ain't 'dat sweet....
>>
>
>I'd appreciate it more if I hadn't been spammed twice already by
>self-proclaimed born-again Christians attempting to mobilize people
>against those two kids...

Or by one of the weaselly marketers in a while.

Think of it.
You creat a site based on a recent headline making Internet first .
Then you spam the shit out of everyone faking like your the oposition.
You don't get nailed for spamming
you give your opisition a black eye
you artificially create a media blitz, since the news runs to cover this
confrontation between the relegious right and the new internet morality.

You get about a billion hits
you add one or two click through adds
or some other such thing to the web page

Here comes the big day

Bingo, a quick 30,000$ in your bank account.

You sell the rights to porn companies to include in their feeds
since there is so much product recognition.

;)

smart little bastard
not that I am saying that is what is going on.


not that im cynical or anything....

Ian






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne  (by way of x )
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 15:52:54 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: cyber FOIA/settlement e-mail
Message-ID: <199802282352.AAA09743@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



God, what a nut!


Friday February 27, 1998 11:18 AM

By e-mail and US mail

Lieutenant General Kenneth A Minihan, USAF
Director, National Security Agency
National Security Agency
9800 Savage Road
Fort George G. Meade, MD 20755-6000

Dear General Minihan:

Purposes of the letter are to

1  request information under the Freedom of Information Act
2  explore settlement possibilities of our current lawsuit.

.... etc. shit deleted.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: MAILER-DAEMON@toad.com
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 01:01:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Now You CAN Accept Credit Cards - Guaranteed Approval
Message-ID: <199802270818.CAA11762@mail.t-1net.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: MAILER-DAEMON@toad.com
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 03:34:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Slick Willie Joke Book Collectible!
Message-ID: <199803010654.AAA06271@mail.t-1net.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


If you want to know the answers to these questions:

 -> What's the difference between Slick Willie and the Titanic?
 -> What do Monica Lewinsky and Bob Dole have in common?
 -> What do Slick Willie and Ken Starr have in common?
 -> How did Slick Willie and Hillary meet?
 -> What does Teddy Kennedy have that Slick Willie wishes he did?
 -> What's the difference between Hillary and a pit bull?

           >>>>>  Then You Have To Get  <<<<<

** THE COMPLETE But Tacky SLICK WILLIE JOKE & ACTIVITY BOOK**

Over 90 pages of jokes and activities lampooning the entire Bubba Gang.  Order now for only $4.99 (plus $1.50 for shipping and 
handling)

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================================================================
To receive your joke & activity book, fill out this form and fax it to: 516-424-6519

Name:____________________________________________________

ShipAddress: ____________________________________________
                              
City: ___________________________________________________

State: ____  

Zip: __________     

Daytime Phone: (____)___________


CREDIT CARD ORDERS:

CC#:____________________________________
   (VISA/Mastercard/American Express ONLY)

Exp. Date:____/____

Total Amount:  $6.49  Appear on statement under JERBIL,INC.)

"CHECKS BY FAX" ORDERS:

Please fax your check ($6.49) with the shipping information above
attached to:  912-236-6676

Allow 3-6 weeks for delivery.
Bulk rates of 100, 1000, and 10,000 are available

---------------------------------------------------------------------

If you wish to be removed from our mailing list, please
call 1-800-374-6477 ext. 2420.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 3yy1zc <3yy1zc@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 01:10:25 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <19943672.886214@relay.comanche.denmark.eu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Authenticated sender is <3yy1zc@ix.netcom.com>
Subject:  3-1
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

EMAIL MARKETING WORKS!!

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This program allows you to develop TARGETED lists of email
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Our software utilizes the latest in search technology called
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1) Do a search using your favorite search engine by typing in
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2) Copy the URL (one or more)...that's the stuff after the
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                Checks or Money Orders send to:
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Please note:  Allow 5 business days for all checks to
clear before order is shipped.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mixmaster 
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 04:29:34 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: HP Crypto Hardware
Message-ID: <199803011211.EAA24273@sirius.infonex.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


With regard to:

> Hewlett-Packard Granted License For Encryption System 
> 
> The Commerce Department has granted Hewlett-Packard an 
> export license for its VerSecure encryption architecture...
> The catch is that the products must take their orders 
> from a central computer...will dictate how...products 
> will behave in each country. 

No fucking way!

> The company hopes that the solution would break the 
> deadlock between the Clinton Administration...and the 
> computer industry...

"The company hopes that its solution of a gun that will
shoot forward in jurisdictions that allow possession of
firearms and backward in jurisdictions that prohibit same
will break the deadlock between overweening, self-inflated,
scum-sucking, dog-fucking, shit-brained totalitarians and
those seeking nothing more than to be LEFT THE FUCK ALONE."

Whores! Two-dollar whores! 25-cent whores! HP can stick its
encryption card and everything else it makes straight up
its mercenary ass. HP just created a powerful incentive for
a lot of very capable and creative people to see to it that
HP products don't exactly shine in the marketplace, if you
get my drift.

> The new solution effectively disconnects the problem 
> of distributing encryption technology from the process 
> of determining the policy for government access to 
> information. 

Wonderful! That's like selling nerve gas that calls 
Washington to ask permission before it deploys. Stupid,
stupid, STUPID fucking assholes!

> The heart is a new class of trusted hardware cards and 
> chips that take their orders from a central company
> known as a Security Domain Authority or SDA. In countries
> like France that require people to keep a record of keys 
> for unlocking data, the SDA would only allow the computers 
> to encrypt information if it complied with the laws. 

The communists were right on one point. Capitalists will 
sell them the rope that will be used to hang them. And 
hang their children.  Stupid, stupid, STUPID!

> In countries with no laws about encryption usage like 
> the United States, Germany and Great Britain, the SDA 
> would allow users to encrypt in whatever manner they 
> choose. 

Yeah, _today_.  And what about _tomorrow_, you astronomical
fuckwits? What about when the USG decides that with this
neat mechanism in place they will just advise Slavery
Central that citizen-units in the US may no longer encrypt
things "in whatever manner they choose?"

Names. We need names publicized. Who thought of this 
monstrous product? Who approved it? Who developed it? Who 
signed off on it, saying, "Yeah, this will really make 
our stockholders proud! Who gives a shit if their kids and grandchildren live under the iron fist of a U.S. 
technocratic dictatorship? We're gonna score a few points 
here, make a little extra bonus this year, lock it in with 
a couple of patents... Who cares if we all end up with 
brainchip implants?"

> Hewlett-Packard sees the solution as a win for the 
> industry, which will be able to build one set of 
> hardware and software that can be shipped throughout 
> the world. The SDA's will set the local rules because 
> the computers will not encrypt information without 
> first getting permission from the SDA.

This is too abominable for words. It's the ultimate
sell-out. I know now that there is no hope, not even
a spark of the flame of freedom to illuminate the gloom
into which we are headed. What's the use of being a
well-behaved citizen-unit when this kind of utter shit
is afoot or underfoot? It's war. It's always been war,
we just haven't understood that it was war. The other
side has understood it from the start.

> Doug McGowan, one of the director of Hewlett-Packard's 
> efforts, said in a telephone interview, "Never before 
> has a general purpose cryptography tool been exportable 
> from the United States, with or without key recovery. 
> We're opening a huge market for American industry to 
> enable commerce on a worldwide basis." 

!!! Some justification, eh Doug? Hey Doug! When they ask
for cerebral implants that explode on command, will you
offer a similar product that checks with Citizen Control
Central before detonating, to make sure the target is in
a country that authorizes it? "Hey, no problem!" says
Doug. "Our new CerebSecure will only explode heads in
countries like Iran, Iraq, Cuba, and North Korea when
people attempt to make unauthorized purchases with its
electronic purse feature. In countries with no laws 
about political or religious transactions like the 
United States, Germany^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H and Great 
Britain, the SDA would allow users to purchase in 
whatever manner they choose."

> The price for this flexibility is the need for 
> specialized hardware that treats the SDA as its 
> master. In an ordinary computer, the owner can 
> control all aspects of what the computer does. 
> This extra hardware will raise the price of machines 
> and is bound to be more expensive than software which 
> can be distributed at minimal cost. 

Yeah, this is just the kind of thing that Americans, even
with their severly dulled sense of freedom, will run 
right out to buy! Sure. First we can expect to see the
feds mandate this for all government purchases, then at
some point mandate the chipset for all computers, then
outlaw encryption that doesn't use the chipset. And I
don't even own a crystal ball anymore!

> Feisal Mosleh [said], "...It...gives us a lot of 
> strength in terms of tamper resistance."

OK, I give up. Where is the tamper resistance for the 
Constitution? Is anybody working on that? HEL-lo????



FuckWithMeMongerII





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: jenny.n18@usa.net
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 22:20:02 -0800 (PST)
To: jenny.n18@usa.net
Subject: Attraction
Message-ID: <0000000000.AAA000@usa.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Do you want to succeed at dating, or you just need a little spark to your
relationship or marriage?

Well here is the Answer for you!

Sensations(r), the new Compact Disc that  uses proven subliminal techniques to
increase your chances of SEXUAL success with the opposite sex.. Simply play it
and watch it work!!!!

do you want to be a winner?   

If yes then go to http://207.134.166.10/users/subliminal/subliminal.htm






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: business@checkfax.net
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 07:03:43 -0800 (PST)
To: friend@bulkmailernet.com
Subject: AD: Complete Checks by Fax Software
Message-ID: <199803011503.HAA05521@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Did you know that over 125 Million people in the U.S. have checking
accounts? Out of those people over 70 Million DO NOT have a credit
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sales.

Checker is a full featured check printing software package that will
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that you can deposit the very same day!

IS CHECK-BY-FAX LEGAL?  Accepting a Check-by-Fax is not only cost 
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If ordering outside the United States we can only accept
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Bank Drafts or International Money Orders as payment.
TDN Publishing, Inc.
Box 642
Destin, Florida 32540-0642
Fax: (850)-837-0367

Please include your Name, phone number, E-mail, and postal address.
Please check how you would like to receive your Checker Software:
Send to my E-Mail address as a file attachment   (  )
Send by U.S. Mail to my postal address               (  )


Or you can of course order using CHECK-BY-FAX

                    ******* CHECK-BY-FAX *******
                     ***** PAYMENT SYSTEM *****

This is the preferred payment method at TDN Publishing! 
If you are ordering outside the United States we can only accept
payment
by International Bank Draft or International Money Order.  Your
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received 24 hours a day and will be shipped immediately!


cut
here______________________________________________________________>

          **********  CHECK-BY-FAX ORDER FORM **********
You must complete the entire form or your order can not be
processed. 
You will need to tape or paste a check in the blank space below.
Fill 
out and sign the authorization section below, and fax the ENTIRE
FORM 
to (850) 837-0367. 

PRODUCT/SERVICE You are ordering: Checker software.
Please check how you would like to receive your Checker Software:
Send to my E-mail address as a file attachment (  )
Send via U.S. Mail to my postal address            (  )
I would like to DownLoad the Software on my own time, please send me
the address.    (  )

First Name:
__________________________________________________________

Last Name:
___________________________________________________________

Street Address:
______________________________________________________

____________________________________________________________________
__

City:
________________________________________________________________

State: _____________________            Zip:
_________________________

Phone Number:
_______________________________________________________

EMail Address:
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     * * * * * * * * * *  Authorization  * * * * * * * * * * 

I, ______________________________________ hereby authorize TDN 
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I have read and I understand the terms and conditions as stated
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The signature below is the authorized signature of the holder of the
 
checking account.  
Authorized Signature
_________________________________________________

Date: __________________ 


Attach Voided Check Here!





*******
TO BE REMOVED FROM OUR MAILING LISTS SEND EMAIL TO 
MAILTO:REMOVE@DEAA.ORG with your email address as the subject
*******





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 40264587@usa.net
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 08:18:47 -0800 (PST)
To: URFRIEND@myplace.com
Subject: STOP SMOKING ...SECRET!
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


IF YOU SMOKE , PLEASE READ THIS CAREFULLY!  YOU TOO 
CAN STOP SMOKING EASILY WITH A NEW CHINESE SMOKER'S 
HERBAL AROMA THAT IS NOW AVAILABLE IN THE UNITED
STATES.

This amazing new product has successfully helped  at least 90% of 
those who use it consistently.

"I lost the desire for smoking almost immediately.  When I occasionally
would smoke, the cigarette had no taste and was not fun to smoke.  
After three days, whenever I wanted to smoke I would smell the bottle 
and lose the desire."
Robert F.- Newmanstown, PA.

"I smoked for 15 years.  This product completely took away my desire to
smoke. two days, I cut my smoking in half.  Then I stopped completely! 
 I have never used a product with such power .  I recommend it to any 
smoker who wants to quit."
Michele G., Fairfield, Iowa

   The majority of people who smoke cigarettes would like to quit. Are
you one of these people, or are you too disheartened by the cost of other
failures?

The patch and the nicotine gums are of a certain time limit and can be
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 This purely natural product acts like nicotine in the bloodstream.  The
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"I was not ready to quit.  I started to use the product several times a
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 54689590@hotmail.com
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 21:22:47 -0800 (PST)
To: URFRIEND@myplace.com
Subject: FREE SOFTWARE !!!
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 12:51:43 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Killing the Unabomber
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980301125005.007e1c20@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>   >   : Didn't the government finally back down on their
>   >   : attempt to legally kill the Unabomber?  
>   >   This point strikes me as pretty funny.  Kinda like a nurse rooting
>   >   for Charles Starkweather.

>Or trying to be consistent.
>Raygun: abortion is killing, but pro-death penalty.
>If killing is wrong, killing again is wrong.

No consistency involved - many of them would like to kill him.
But they've Got Their Man, and he's made it clear that a trial
will be difficult, long, expensive, involve lots of firing lawyers
and arguing about mental competency, and generally be trouble,
and he's offered to plead guilty if they won't kill him.

Even though he's a highly intelligent cold-blooded killer,
he's also close enough to crazy that the public will have
enough sympathy for him that killing him won't be highly popular,
especially because his brother wouldn't have turned him in
if he'd expected him to be killed.

Also, while his killings have been somewhat scary and weird,
they haven't generated the kind of public outrage that the
OKCity bombing did, with dead babies on the front page of the papers.
The defendents there are going to get killed, and the public
is going to enjoy it, and the Neilsen Ratings will be high.

>Next time, the killer might not be caught because
>the person who recognized (yea traffic analysis)
>his talktalk might not want them killed as a result.
>i.e. in the long run it will save lives.

I think you're right here.


				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: owner-cypherpunks
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 13:39:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: 68 Million Email Addresses - 99.00
Message-ID: <199803012139.NAA17234@cygint.cygnus.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Eric Tune" 
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 17:42:23 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: Fw: Missing the Big Picture
Message-ID: <001b01bd457c$5e918be0$2a06ea18@paladin.lvcablemodem.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary..3990.1071713781.multipart/mixed"

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William H. Geiger III said:
>    I have noticed that many members of the list are missing the "big
>picture" when it comes to fighting censorship.
>
>While I support the various efforts to combat the numerous attacks on
>personal liberties world wide it is all for nought unless we push for
>fundamental changes in government.
>
>There is an old saying: "Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts
>absolutely".
>
>So long as we have Statist governments (fascists, communist,
socialist,
>they are all the same) we will suffer a never ending infringement of
our
>basic civil liberties. You can not give a government overwhelming
powers
>to control every minute aspect of our lives and not expect them to
use it
>AS THEY SEE FIT.
>
>We go on wining little battles over this law or that law only to be
losing
>the war. Every year governments become more powerful, more
repressive,
>and are freedoms are curtailed even more. We need to strike into the
belly
>of the beast, and rip out it's hart. We must remove it's power to
tax, to
>regulate, to control only then will we be free.
>
>Not only must we castrate this beast leaving it a shell of it's
former
>self but we must stop being children and act like free men. We must
be
>willing to stand on our own and take our destinies into our own
hands. We
>must resist running to Big Brother every time we have a problem like
a
>small school boy running to mommy when he scrapes his knees.
>
>It is far better to try and fail as a free man than to have never
tried at
>all living the life of the slave.
>
>--


Well said William, very well said.  Free men must cooperate in their
own defeat, refuse to cooperate, refuse to give in, and you will not
lose.  In the end, tyranny will fall.

In the history of our civilizations, all governments have eventually
failed, regardless that they may have had noble intent in their
beginnings, and they have fallen.  So have each succeeding government
after them. They fail because when times passes, decades or centuries
(doesn't matter) the average citizenry becomes accepting and
complacent while said government becomes more and more abusive,
excessive, impulsive, and corrupt.  Finally, those people who can no
longer tolerate this from those who would call themselves their
rulers, rise to the occasion and the now festering, malignant
government is torn down.

Unfortunately, the cycle repeats itself.  The U.S. government has
lasted this long only due to the freedoms guaranteed by our
Constitution, but it still has been following in the tracks as all the
previous governments before it.  In lasting longer than any other
constitutional form of government, it is now so corrupt that at this
point only 1 of 2 things can really happen:  a 2nd American
Revolution, and hopefully a new start and (for the time being) a
change for the better, or total Fascism, and the last remaining
freedoms people have will be quickly extinguished.  I don't want to
live in a socialist environment.  I don't want somebody telling me how
to raise my children, and I don't want someone telling me I'm a
criminal because I don't want to let the government read what I have
to say.  It doesn't "Take a Village" and it doesn't take Big
Brother.... it takes freedom, ingenuity, drive, determination,
self-worth, cooperation, and dedication to build something better.

Scream to your Senators and Representatives, as loud as you can, we
all must do what we can, or we will be lost, and as William said, in
perpetual, permanent slavery, with no privacy, no rights, and no hope
for a self-determined future.  To hell with that.

Eric J. Tune


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: owner-cypherpunks
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 18:20:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Accept this FREE gift-FREE  1 HOUR LD CALLING CARD
Message-ID: <199803020220.SAA09288@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 18:18:56 -0800 (PST)
To: wire@monkey-boy.com
Subject: sick feeling
Message-ID: <34FA16FB.3668@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Subject: 
        Halabja, Iraq and what you wrote
  Date: 
        Sun, 01 Mar 1998 18:58:39 -0700
  From: 
        bill payne 
    To: 
        L E Banderet 


Sunday 3/1/98 6:33 PM

Lou

Got your stuff on Saturday.

Patty and I both commented on the picture of your 
lovely new wife.

And I was  pleased that you had authored or co-authored
85 publications. 

This is what I was supposed to train you for.

Patty and I watched 60 Minutes tonight and what happened in 
Halabja, Iraq.  

The IMMEDIATE and LONG TERM effects of a combination 
mustard and sarin gas attack on genetics.

Last night I transcribed some of your and you co-authors' words.

Volume 9, Number 4, 1997

  MILITARY PSYCHOLOGY

  The Official Journal of the 
  Division of Military Psychology
  American Psychological Association

  Special Issue:  Effects of Chemical Protective
                  Clothing of Military Performance
  Guest Editors:  Gerald P. Krueger and
                  Louis E. Banderet

         Psychological Aspects of Chemical Defense and Warfare

        James W. Stokes
        U.S. Army Medical Department Center and School
        Fort Sam Houston, Texas

        Louis E. Banderet
        U.S. Army Research Institute of Environmental Medicine
        Natick, Massachusetts

  Concerns about chemical, biological, or radiation (CBR) weapons  and 
  their potential for warfare can be very stressful.  Such concerns
  subject  people to unfamiliar threats in highly ambiguous situations,
in which 
  people feel they may be wronged or they are helpless.  Maladaptive
  psychological overreactions or underreactions may result.  Such
  reactions to chemical warfare are illustrated with the experience from
World War
  I,  the 1991 Persian Gulf War, and the 1995 terrorist attack in the
Tokyo
  subway.  General principles of psychology suggest strategies and
  tactics for training and materiel development that should enhance
military
  performance and reduce maladaptive stress in CBR threat situations. 
Some of these
  practices  may be relevant to nonmilitary law enforcement and relief
agencies
  that manage CBR threats.

page 395.

Now I transcribe some of the more relevant stuff.

  Effects of Chemical Protective Clothing on Military Performance:

  A Review of the Issues

  Gerald P. Krueger
  Star Mountain, Inc.
  Alexandria, Virginia

  Lous E. Banderet
  U.S. Army Research Institute of Environmental Medicine
  Natick, Massachusetts
        
  This review in this special issue of Military Psychology on the
  effects of chemical protective clothing (CPC) on military performance
provide a historical
  perspective on continued anxieties over likely use of battlefield
  chemical-biological weapons and summarizes significant concerns of
military personnel weaning CPC in
  training and combat.  This review describes pschophysiological
stresses such
  protective ensembles have on personnel and how these affect military
performance, and it
  summarizes major military psychological research program on the effect
of wearing CPC. 
  This article reviews what is known about wearing CPC, describes future
CPC
  developments, and  identifies domains for improved military training
with CPC.

              MEDICAL AND PSYCHOLOGICAL EFFECT 
              OF C-B WEAPONS

  There are many medical, physiological and psychological reactions from
  exposure to chemical-biological (C-B) weapons.  Many bio-warfare
agents and most
  chemical weapons are designed to interfere with function of the
nervous system and to
  disrupt normal control of vital organ systems that sustain life.  For
example,  the more
  common chemical war nerve agents involve organophosphate compounds, 
similar to
  insecticides, that inhibit  cholinesterase enzymes throughout the
body.  Because cholinesterase
  hydrolyzes acetylcholine where ever liberated, this inhibition 
results in
  excessive concentrations of acetylcholine at various sites - from the
ending of the
  parasympathetic nerves to smooth muscles of the iris, ciliary body,
bronchi, gastrointestinal trace,
  bladder, and blood  vessels; to secretary gland of the respiratory
tract' and to endings of the
  sympathetic nerves to sweat glands (Newhouse, 1987; Simmons et at
1989).  Exposure to large
  amounts of nerve agent may lead to loss of muscle control, twitching,
paralysis,
  unconsciousness, convulsions, coma, and even death.  The most common
cause of death after acute
  exposure is respiratory arrest.  Death may occur within minutes or
take several hours.
     In terms of psychological functioning, moderate but nonlethal
  exposure to nerve agent produces severe impairment in cognition,
vigilance, memory and
  language.  Acute intoxication produces confusion, drowsiness, and
difficulty in
  concentration (Newhouse, 1987).  These impairment make it difficult to
continue to perform may
  soldier tasks. Effects on cognition may persist after only a slight
exposure. 
  Performance improvement appears to correlate with the body's
regeneration of
  acetycholinesterase, usually requiring several months.
    Neurophysychological testing (Newhouse, 1987) reveals that chronic
  exposure to  organophosphates significantly impairs higher mental
function
  requiring use of the frontal lobes, particularly the left lobe. 
Organophosphate poisoning
  selectively  impairs memory of recently learned information, and this
impairment is likely related to
  cholinergic involvement in the memory processes.  The effects include
defects in long-term
  memory, visual searching, and response alteration - effects similar to
those caused by a frontal
  lobotomy.  In chronically exposed individuals, speed of task
performance and overall cognitive
  efficiency also declines. Persistent visual impairments are reported
in workers poisoned with
  anticholinesterase insecticides, and acute poisoning impair oculomotor
function. 
  Poisoning with nerve agents may also cause psychiatric disturbances
such as depression.
    Use of C-B weapons results not only in large number of physical
  casualties on the battlefield by in may psychological casualties as
well.  Concern over the mere
  threat that C-B weapons might be used raises battlefield anxiety of
combatants and can produce
  a level of fear disproportionate to that evoked by countless
alternative conventional
  battlefield means of killing or maiming, such a with guns, artillery,
and bombs.  Such
  anxieties can create large numbers of psychological stress casualties
contribution to unit
  ineffectiveness on the battlefield and combat losses.  Such adverse
emotions may also cause posttraumatic
  stress disorders after combat ceases.
                
                DEVELOPMENT OF COUNTERMEASURES
                FOR THE COMBAT THEATER

   Modern military forces recognize the C-B weapons can be the
  attention-getting equivalent of a poor country's nuclear weapons. 
Such weapons can be
  counter-acted, however, and concerned nations prepare their forces to
preserve their health and
  safety against C-B warfare.   ...

                        THE THREAT OF C-B WARFARE

  Although biological warfare was used centuries ago by the Romans and
  was used in the 14th century by the Tartars, who catapulted
plague-infected bodies
  into cities under siege (Hewish, 1997),  military forces have made
scant use of
  biological warfare in modern times.  The more recent innovation of
chemical warfare dates to 1914
  when the French used tear gas against unprotected German forces, who
in turn introduced
  chlorine and phosgene in 1915 and mustard gas in 1917 against the
British, who sustained
  14,000 casualties in 3 months (Hewish, 1997).  May World Ware I
soldiers were grotesquely
  injured or died in gas war trenches in France and Russia;  Russia's
gas casualties exceed a
  half million, including 50,000 fatalities (Westerhoff, 1980).
    In 1925, many countries signed a Geneva Protocol prohibiting first
  use of chemical and bacteriological weapons.  However, during the
1930s, several
  countries, notably Germany, encouraged chemists to develop chemical
weapons as a by-product of
  insecticide research production.  By World War II, Germany and powers
stockpiled huge
  caches of chemical, but probably due to fear of in-kind retaliation,
chemical weapons were not
  used in World War II.
    After the war, Germany's organophoshporous arsenal fell into Russian
  hands, and for the next 50 years, military forces relegated C-B
warfare efforts to relatively
  quiet development programs for future battlefields.
    Since World War II, C-B weapons have been employed several times on
  a relatively small scale.  In the 1970s, the Vietnamese used chemical
and "yellow rain"
  biological agents in Cambodian jungles, the Soviets used chemical in
Afghanistan (U.S.
  Department of State, 1980), Iraq used sulfur mustard  and other
chemical in the Iran-Iraq
  conflict (1979-1980), and Iraq used chemical in 1980 - this time
against its own people, the
  northern Kurds (Stuteville, 1997).
    There have been periodic threats to use chemical weapons on a grand
  scale.  In the 1970s, the Warsaw Pact possessed huge stockpiles of
chemical weapons (
  mostly soman, cyanide, and mustard gas), and Soviet chemical warfare
teams openly
  conducted extensive training in gas warfare tactics.  Such readiness
for large scale C-B
  warfare was underscored in the Persian Gulf War of 1991, as Iraq
threatened to use chemical
  (sarin) and biologicals (anthrax spores) against coalition forces and
possibly against
  neighboring cities in Saudi Arabia and Israel (Begley, Barry,  &
Hager, 1991).  By January 1991,
  Saudi Arabia had predug 50,000 graves planned for burying civilian
(noncombat)
  casualties expected to succumb to Iraqi chemical poisoning from
anticipated rocket attacks on
  Saudi cities oraerosols drifting from the battlefields (Kaplan, 1991).
    Although Iraq did not unleash such chemical, and the battles were
  ultimately short, many U.S. military personnel may been exposed to
chemical during the
  March 1991 destruction of Iraqi weapon stockpiled (mostly sarin) near
Khamisiyah,
  Iraq (Stuteville, 1997).  The U. S. government continue to investigate
whether exposures
  to chemical agents may have contributed to the so-called Gulf War
illnesses
  experienced by many U.S. military veterans of that encounter. 
Exposure of soldiers to
  multiple chemical and and environmental stressors may be linked to
psychophysiological
  illnesses that manifest in symptomatology such as disabling fatigue,
insomnia, malaise, joint
  and muscle pains, skin sores, hair loss, and gastrointestinal and
respiratory
  difficulties (Brown & Priest, 1996).  Others asset that U.S. military
personnel were exposed
  to Iraq chemical warfare from Scud missiles, artillery and aircraft
(Stuteville, 1997)

                        PUBLIC CONCERN

  Open, frank, public news of existent military chemical stockpiles,
  proliferation of chemical or biological weaponry, and periodic
'saber-ratting' threats to use
  such weapons amplify world public concerns over the enormity of what
someday could be a horrific
  chemical or biological calamity.  Unprotected civilian populations
fear they may be
  deliberately attacked by chemical and biological weapons or
inadvertently by aerosol warfare
  agents drifting into populated areas of a battlefield.  Disastrous
incident like the one in
  1984 at a chemical actory in Bhopal, India, which killed over 2,000
people and sickened  
  countless others, sensitized citizenry to the lethal potential of such
chemical
  compounds.  In 1995, terrorist attacks on the Tokyo subway, and news
media discussion of possible use
  of nerve agents in terrorist disruption of public gathering like the
1992 and 1996
  Olympics, heightened Public fears over such chemical incidents have
become almost visceral.  News
  of recent advances in genetic technologies (Dando, 1997)  suggest use
of future
  biological weapons with unprecedented insidiousness and specificity is
possible.  Moreover,
  the mass media and media expert sources remind the public that the
United States  may not be
  adequately prepared or trained to defend itself against chemical or
biological warfare (Beal,
  1997).  ...

I got a sick feeling when Hans Buehler phoned from Zurich on why he was
jailed in the Evin prison in Tehran.

You failed to mention the long-term effects of mustard-sarin.  

Or how the suits were to protect against biological weapons.

I have an even more sick feeling now.  

bill

Title: Untitled Document









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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Michael Hall" 
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 16:38:07 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: I'd like to join your mailing list...
Message-ID: <01bd4573$52367c60$b1aaaccf@p2>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




    I read 
about your mailing list in The Happy Mutant Handbook, and I am inclined 
to get on the list.  Address is stevehall@csi.com 
.


From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: cyper punks 
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 20:24:45 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: cypherpunks@yahoo.com
Message-ID: <19980302042425.8339.rocketmail@send1b.yahoomail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hi cypherpunks,

cypherpunks@yahoo.com is running!

whom created cypherpunks@yahoo.com




_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: WhatsMetaU 
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 18:31:27 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Fw: Missing the Big Picture
Message-ID: <549d66e3.34fa19be@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


In a message dated 98-03-01 21:16:04 EST, paladin@lvcablemodem.com writes:

<< >    I have noticed that many members of the list are missing the "big
 >picture" when it comes to fighting censorship. > >>

You want to see the big picture?  See my front page -

http://members.aol.com/StanSquncr/

And if there are any " ... heads" on this list, you ain't got one.

Stanley Rosenthal, saver of lists
'Methods of Moder(atio)n Censorship'
http://members.aol.com/WhatsMetaU/ofir.html




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 00:26:08 -0800 (PST)
To: Mike 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980302002230.0092c210@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 04:58 AM 3/2/98 +0300, Mike wrote:
>I need - well, it sounds funny - to crack PGP-encrypted text ;)
>I have secring.pgp but not the keyphrase - does it make things easier or not?
>I also have pgpcrack99.zip (DOS-version, zip means that I unzipped it
>for the 1st time :)  But I guess it will take megahours with big
>dictionary - and it will cover only single words, not sentences.
>Please, can somebody introduce me a little?

Remember how PGP works:
PGP picks a random session key, and encrypts it with the public key
of the recipient (using RSA or a Diffie-Hellman version),
and encrypts the message with the session key.
The recipient's private key is encrypted with the passphrase
for the private key and stored in secring.pgp.
When the recipient wants to decrypt the message, they type
their passphrase into PGP, which decrypts the private key
from the secring and uses it to decrypt the session key from the message,
and uses the session key to decrypt the message body.

The session key is long, and you won't crack it.
RSA depends on factoring big numbers, and if the user has a 512-bit
public key or a longer public key _you_ won't be able to crack it.
(The KGB might*, and a distributed internet crack might, but you won't.)
But the passphrase for decrypting the private key from the secring file
is picked by the user - some users use short stupid keys, and 
other users use long difficult keys, and short stupid keys can be cracked.
The user needs to protect their secring file, to prevent this attack,
but if you have their secring, you can try to crack it.

If this is your _own_ secring, and you can't remember your passphrase,
it's easier, because you probably know what words you use in passphrases,
so your dictionary can be short and the crack can be fast.
If you stole somebody else's secring, or somebody else store yours,
then you have to guess what kind of dictionary to use.

This only works for the recipient's secring - if you steal the sender's
secring, even if you crack their passphrase, it doesn't help,
because that's only used when somebody sends them messages,
or when they sign messages (and now you can forge them.)

*I assume you're not the KGB or Mafia, because then you would just
beat up the guy until he gives you the passphrase.
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 22:30:58 -0800 (PST)
To: Tim May 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 17:58 -0500 2/28/98, Declan McCullagh wrote:
>Now, the FBI wants to ban U.S. software without such peepholes. Doesn't
>crypto-crippleware make it much easier for the government to issue only
>key recovery tokens when everyone's existing ones expire?
>"Whatever the law is in the U.S., we will comply," says CEO Lewis Platt.

Had dinner with some local cypherpunks this evening. Talked about the HP
issue (likely to have one of their reps at the next mtg, maybe in four
weeks). An analogy: a gun that stops firing after a year and requires
government permission to be reactivated. If the manufacturer isn't out of
business by then...

Sure hope this doesn't become the trend,for software in general or
cryptoware in particular.

Put another way, this arguably is more disturbing than Clipper. At least
you know what you're getting then. You may not know 'xactly what your PAT
does.

-Declan






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mike 
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 18:02:32 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Newbie pgp question
Message-ID: <34FA122A.74E4@mail.nevalink.ru>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hi guys,
I've got a question - may be it is FAQ, the please point me.
I need - well, it sounds funny - to crack PGP-encrypted text ;)
I have secring.pgp but not the keyphrase - does it make things easier or
not?
I also have pgpcrack99.zip (DOS-version, zip means that I unzipped it
for the 1st time :)  But I guess it will take megahours with big
dictionary - and it will cover only single words, not sentences.
Please, can somebody introduce me a little?

TIA
PS. I also know few words in that file, may be even phrases.
-- 

*******************************************
Mike Blazer
blazer@mail.nevalink.ru
*******************************************




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Fabio Rosetti" 
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 06:13:40 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <19980302141306.3464.qmail@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill.stewart@pobox.com
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 17:28:30 -0800 (PST)
To: "William H. Geiger III" 
Subject: Re: I was auto-outed by an IMG tag in HTML spam
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980220184839.008d4b50@popd.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980302124517.008b7260@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 09:02 AM 2/21/98 -0500, William H. Geiger III wrote:
> > > 1. HTML in mail: There is just no place for this crap in e-mail. 
> > HTML is a fine format for email.  It's ASCII readable, and supports
>Yes but who needs all this crap in e-mail??
>E-Mail is a messaging protocol not a protocol for large documents 

Nonsense.  E-Mail is an interface for mailing stuff to people,
and an email system that can't handle large documents is broken.
In particular, the MickeysoftMail view that the contents of a message
belong in attachments rather than message body is broken
(it's partly due to myopia, and partly because some of the popular
Windows GUI programming widgets can't handle more than 32KB.)

>I must admit that atleast MS Outlook follows the RFC's and makes use of
>multipart/alternative when sending out HTML formated messages so others
>are not forced to use a webbrowser to read their mail (unlike Net$cape or
>Eudora).  There is no place for HTML in e-mail plain and simple.
>I do not wan't to have to load a huge bloated bugfilled webbrowser 
>just to process my e-mail messages.

First of all, you don't need a web browser to read HTML.
Eudora doesn't use one - it displays it natively.
(If you attach an HTML attachment rather than putting HTML in the body,
then you need an HTML viewer (which may or may not be a web browser), 
but that's the same as needing a text viewer to view text attachments.)
	(Netscape _is_ a huge bloated buggy web browser, and you could
	argue about whether it needs to have a mailreader hung off the side,
	but it's helped them with their market share, and if you
	don't like it, use Eudora.)

Furthermore, HTML is written in ASCII, and designed to be human-readable,
and designed so the user can choose how to display it -
HTML viewers are supposed to display documents in the user's preferred
formats given the limitations of the display device.
If you like Netscape or IE 4.x browsers to view HTML, use them, 
but if you'd prefer Lynx for a lean, mean browser, 
or MSWord or another viewer like HoTMetaL, go ahead.

Some people like to send rich-text attachments.  HTML is a much better
standard for doing that than some MS proprietary format.
Most of the rich text mail I get at work is in proprietary MS formats,
(most of it that I get at home is SPAM :-), which means I need to use
a buggy bloated word processor to read it, except when Exchange
feels like using its Outlook Evil Twin to display the stuff,
but it's somewhat pleasant to have colors and fonts available.


>>Netscape mail is adequate for many people, just as Eudora is. 
>>Newer versions are pretty bloated, but including 
>>S/MIME mail encryption for everybody is a Good Thing.
>Now this is really scary. You consider pushing weak 40bit S/MIME on the
>internet users a GoodThing(TM)?  I think you need to sit down and rethink

40 bit?  Not good, but domestic versions are supposed to support 128;
maybe they don't in practice.  (NS 3.x was bloated enough that I haven't
upgraded to 4.x)   And getting people in the habit of using
crypto is a good thing.  

				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill.stewart@pobox.com
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 17:28:15 -0800 (PST)
To: John Young 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980302125612.007e55f0@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 08:17 AM 2/28/98 -0500, John Young wrote:
>We offer the lengthy prepared testimony at the Joint 
>Economic Committee hearing February 25 on "Radio Frequency 
>Weapons and Proliferation: Potential Impact on the Economy."
>  http://jya.com/rfw-jec.htm  (112K)

John!  You can't do that!  That's putting bomb-making information
on the Internet!  It's safe to have it in government hearing documents,
where only technically incompetent Congresscritters will read it,
but by letting the public know, you're facilitating right-wing 
conspiracies and anarchists and terrorists and teenage kids
and all those other dangerous people getting access to weapons
of low-mass destruction!

On a slightly more serious note, I'm surprised from the
excerpts of the description that the $500 of parts would
generate enough joules of electrical energy induced into
sensitive parts of computer equipment in some reasonable range
to do a lot of damage.
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mixmaster 
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 13:40:33 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: FW: Business Week on encryption controls
Message-ID: <199803022130.NAA26747@sirius.infonex.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----Original Message-----
From: Anonymous 
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net 
Date: Monday, March 02, 1998 10:47
Subject: Business Week on encryption controls


>From
>
>http://www.businessweek.com/premium/10/b3568070.htm
>
>THE GREAT ENCRYPTION DEBATE
>
>>Is all this firepower necessary? Many veterans of the decade-long
>>encryption battle believe Freeh's plan is too extreme to even take
>>seriously. ''Proposals like this are a tremendous stalking horse, but
>>are dead on arrival,'' says Kawika Daguio, encryption-policy expert at
>>the American Bankers Assn.
>
>Many cypherpunks seem to believe it is only a matter of time before
>crypto is made illegal in the U.S.  But sophisticated observers think
>otherwise.
>
>Frankly, the resolution is obvious: crypto-in-a-crime will be controlled.
>If you use crypto in planning a crime, and you're convicted of the
>crime (or conspiracy), then some years will be added to the sentencing
>guidelines.  Some cypherpunks will proclaim this the end of individual
>freedom in our time.
>
>>Also, a compromise may be at hand. Senators John McCain (R-Ariz.) and
>>J. Robert Kerrey (D-Neb.) are currently working on a bill, sources say,
>>that would release exports from controls when similar encryption products
>>are already available overseas. They could also add a ban on domestic
>>controls. ''It appears McCain and Kerrey are searching for some way
>>out of what appears to be legislative gridlock,'' says Commerce Under
>>Secretary William A. Reinsch, who oversees the Administration's policy.
>
>Again, the results are clear to those with vision.  Export controls
>will be lifted, no domestic controls will be imposed on general use of
>encryption.  The only new limits will be in the sentencing guidelines,
>which already consider dozens of factors in a complex formula.
>Whether crypto was used will be a small change there, and won't effect
>anyone's life.
>
>Remember, you read it here first.
>

This guy is living his elitist life looking through rose colored glasses, with blinders on, in a vacuum, with his head buried in sand, with his neck snugly supported by his sphincter muscles.

"vision"?.... "sophisticated"?.... what is this?  If people disagree or are more cynical about what the government may or may not do concerning cryptography we are less sophisticated and/or lack vision?  What an idiot!!  Wake up and smell the bullshit you and others like you are shoveling.  McCain is a serious control freak (former AZ resident who has seen him in action) and will never, regardless of his vomitous, pendulous rhetoric, support a domestic "free encryption" standard without government controls, there will always be a catch.

The glass is not even half empty, it's shattered.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem 
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 11:07:52 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown
Message-ID: <199803021907.OAA29904@mail4.uts.ohio-state.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

The original message was received at Mon, 2 Mar 1998 14:07:36 -0500 (EST)
from ts35-10.homenet.ohio-state.edu [140.254.114.193]

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
<54689590@hotmail.com>

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
... while talking to mail.hotmail.com.:
>>> RCPT To:<54689590@hotmail.com>
<<< 550 Unknown user <54689590>
550 <54689590@hotmail.com>... User unknown


Reporting-MTA: dns; mail4.uts.ohio-state.edu
Received-From-MTA: DNS; ts35-10.homenet.ohio-state.edu
Arrival-Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 14:07:36 -0500 (EST)

Final-Recipient: RFC822; 54689590@hotmail.com
Action: failed
Status: 5.1.1
Remote-MTA: DNS; mail.hotmail.com
Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 Unknown user <54689590>
Last-Attempt-Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 14:07:44 -0500 (EST)


To: 54689590@hotmail.com
Subject: REMOVE
From: cypherpunks@toad.com
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 1980 01:41:00 -0500
Reply-To: cypherpunks@toad.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 10510344@30330.com
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 17:47:16 -0800 (PST)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: New Customers for your Neighborhood Business, Church, Practice...
Message-ID: <199702170025.GAA08056@mail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


You know that new customers are the lifeblood of any local
business; and WE CAN HELP YOU FIND MORE! 
 
That's because we know WHO'S NEW - those who recently
came to live in your market or service area. We can tell you
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Whether you own or manage a retail store, a clinic (medical,
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What we can help you do is MORE THAN to replace customers  
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If you don't own or manage such an establishment, please pass  
this along to a friend who does. But if you do, find out more
details now from our Web site, which you can reach at 
 
http://www.famailcrt.com/c-am.com
 
Sincerely, 
 
Jim Davies 
 






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Global Web Builders 
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 23:24:10 -0800 (PST)
To: (Recipient list suppressed)
Subject: One Nation update from GWB
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980302060415.006edeb4@mail.pronet.net.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
PLEASE NOTE: No unsolicited email is sent. If you do not want to be on the
mailing list please say "REMOVE" in the subject line and return this message
in the body.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear supporter in NSW,

Birthday raffle:
================
The response to the Birthday Raffle has been tremendous... but get in quick
before we run out of tickets (max 100,000 on offer)!

Here again are the details for participating:

The first prize is a QANTAS Global Explorer Holiday for two valued at
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The second prize is a 7 day holiday to Hawaii at the Outrigger Reef Hotel
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The third prize is a 7 nights stay at the Novotel Palm Cove at Cairns - value
$3,000.

You can order a book of 5 tickets (minimum) at $10 per book (or $2 per
ticket) by credit card by phoning 1800 620088.

Winner's names being drawn at One Nation's Birthday Party at 7pm on April
11th 1998.

Winners will be notified by phone and mail with the results being published
in the Sydney Morning Herald on Friday 17th April 1998.

It's Blair:
===========

Pauline Hanson has confirmed that she will be running for the lower house
seat of Blair in the next Federal election.

Full press release details can be seen at:

http://www.gwb.com.au/onenation/press/270298.html

Some Internet addresses to keep an eye on:
==========================================
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While everybody else is getting in on the "Sorry" act the treatment being
meted out to Pauline Hanson by the media deserves an apology to our
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Here you can send an email to a moderated web page on which messages of
apology and comfort are posted to show support for the valuable work that
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http://www.gwb.com.au/sorry.html
------------------------------------------------
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A daily on-line paper which follows the history of One Nation. With an
extensive archive dating back over two years (archive available to subscribers)

http://www.gwb.com.au/head.html
------------------------------------------------
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See how the Australian media are misrepresenting the news and distorting the
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References are taken from press articles that have run in the mainstream media.

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See what they get in return for these favours.

http://www.gwb.com.au/gwb/news/onenation/news.html
--------------------------------------------------
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http://www.gwb.com.au/onenation
--------------------------------------------------

Finally, as we approach the federal election we will be calling on
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they can help Pauline and her team turn Australia around.

REMEMBER only PEOPLE POWER is going to keep Australia **One Nation**. 

That means ALL OFF YOU!! D O   I T    N O W !!!!


GWB



Scott Balson
Web master Pauline Hanson's One Nation web site





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Friend@public.com
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 14:17:22 -0800 (PST)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: Just Released!  16 Million!!!
Message-ID: <011297055501222@g_fantasm.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



IT WAS JUST RELEASED!!
 
INTRODUCING...MILLIONS VOL. 1A

We took a total of over 92 million email addresses from many of the
touted CD's that are out there (bought them all - some were $300+)!
We added the millions we had in storage to those.   When we
combined them all, we had in excess of 100+ million addresses
in one huge file.

We then ran a super "sort/de-dupe" program against this huge list.
It cut the file down to less than 25 million!!! Can you believe that? It
seems that most people that are selling CD's are duping the public
by putting numerous files of addresses in the CD over and over. This
created many duplicate addresses. They also had many program
 "generated" email addresses like Compuserve, MCI, ANON's, etc.
This causes a tremendous amount of undeliverables, and for  those
that use Stealth programs, clogs up servers quickly with trash, etc.

We then ran a program that contained 1800+ keywords to remove
addresses with vulgarity,  profanity, sex-related names, postmaster,
 webmaster, flamer, abuse, spam, etc., etc.   Also eliminated all .edu,
.mil, .org, .gov, etc.   After that list was run against the remaining list,
it  reduced it down to near 10 million addresses!

So, you see, our list will save people hundreds of dollars buying all
others that are out there on  CD and otherwise. Using ours will be like
 using the 100+ million that we started with, but a lot less money and
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We also purchased Cyber-Promos ($995.00) CD.  We received it just
prior to finishing production work on the new CD.  We had our people
take a random sample of 300,000 addresses  from the touted 2.9 that
they advertised.   We used a program that allows us to take a random
sample of addresses from any list.  We were able to have the program
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100,000 addresses. These are also mixed in.

We also included a 6+ million "Remove/Flamer" file broke into seperate
files for ease of  extracting and adding to your own database of removes.

 "You can buy from the REST or you can buy from the BEST.   Your choice.
_____________________________

What others are saying:
 
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Houston,  TX

"This list is worth it's weight in gold!!  I sent out 100,000 emails for my
product and received over 55 orders!

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New Orleans, LA

****************************************
 
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>> 10 Million Email Addresses... 1 per line in simple text format on a CD.
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 _________________
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If you feel more comfortable sending payment through the mail,
please send all forms and Check or Money Order to:
 
JKP Enterprises
700 Boulevard 
Suite 102
Kenilworth, NJ 07033






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: VeriSign Digital ID Center 
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 17:30:21 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Trial Class 1 VeriSign Digital ID
Message-ID: <199803030129.RAA27861@maguro-cm2.verisign.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


QUICK INSTALLATION INSTRUCTIONS
-------------------------------

To assure that someone else cannot obtain a Digital ID that contains your 
name and e-mail address, you must retrieve your Digital ID from
VeriSign's secure web site using a unique Personal Identification
Number (PIN). 

Be sure to follow these steps using the same computer you used to
begin the process.

Step 1: Copy your Digital ID PIN number. 
Your Digital ID PIN is: 7278ce06ea0aedffb942b1b7468471a3

Step 2: Go to VeriSign's secure Digital ID Center at
https://digitalid.verisign.com/getid.htm

Step 3: Paste (or enter) your Digital ID personal identification
number (PIN), then select the SUBMIT button to install
your Digital ID.

That's all there is to it!

WELCOME TO THE CLUB
-------------------

Congratulations on obtaining a Trial Class 1 Digital ID(sm) from VeriSign!  
As a Trial Digital ID holder, you join millions of users who can send 
and receive secure e-mail using the built-in features of the latest 
versions of Netscape, Microsoft, and other popular e-mail packages.  
You also gain easy access to popular websites using your Digital ID 
instead of passwords and one-step registration at websites requesting Digital IDs.



Your Digital ID contains the following information:
Name or Alias: RANDOM Q. HACKER
E-mail Address: cypherpunks@toad.com

To find out more about where and how to use your Digital ID, please visit 
us at http://www.verisign.com/ or visit our Help Desk at 
http://www.verisign.com/help/index.html. 

And don't forget that you can enjoy the benefits of a Full Service Class 1 
Digital ID-including $1000 protection under the Netsuresm Protection Plan, 
directory services, and free replacement, renewal, and revocation of your 
ID 24 hours a day, 7 days a week --for only $9.95 (U.S.) a year.  
To upgrade, please visit our Digital ID Center at http://digitalid.verisign.com. 

Thank you for choosing VeriSign! We look forward to serving your future 
electronic commerce and communications needs.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Support 
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 14:48:41 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Win95 Dialer?
In-Reply-To: <12D08148.7272@toad.com>
Message-ID: <34FB36B8.3204A931@cim.accessatlanta.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


If you're asking if our internet connection service is available in the
Win '95 version, the answer is yes.   Otherwise, I suggest you call our
help desk at 1-888-229-4733 (option #1) for a more complete answer.   If
you want the Win '95 software, they can send it to you.





cypherpunks@toad.com wrote:

> Can you use Windows95 Dialup Networking with Access Atlanta?
>
> -Jim









From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: andrew fabbro 
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 15:57:29 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Cryptobook: '98 update
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Joel McNamara (author Private Idaho) has updated his Cryptobook page,
which now has information on newer software.  The configuration works
much better under Windows 95 now.

Check out: http://www.eskimo.com/~joelm/cryptbk.html

I have a text file full of notes comparing different hard drive
encryption software, if anyone would like a copy.  I settled on Best
Crypt, which uses BLOWFISH (or GOST, or DES if you're insane).  So far
it works well...except I haven't found a way to have Windows' swap file
encrypted.

Have fun...


-- 
 Andrew Fabbro [afabbro@umich.edu] [andrewf@jesuswept.com]
 http://www-personal.umich.edu/~afabbro/      313.647.2713 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem 
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 16:02:20 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: Warning: could not send message for past 4 hours
Message-ID: <199803030002.TAA14183@chemistry.mps.ohio-state.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

    **********************************************
    **      THIS IS A WARNING MESSAGE ONLY      **
    **  YOU DO NOT NEED TO RESEND YOUR MESSAGE  **
    **********************************************

The original message was received at Mon, 2 Mar 1998 14:14:28 -0500 (EST)
from ts35-10.homenet.ohio-state.edu [140.254.114.193]

   ----- The following addresses had transient non-fatal errors -----


   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
451 ... rmjent.com: Name server timeout
Warning: message still undelivered after 4 hours
Will keep trying until message is 5 days old


Reporting-MTA: dns; chemistry.mps.ohio-state.edu
Arrival-Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 14:14:28 -0500 (EST)

Final-Recipient: RFC822; Remove@rmjent.com
Action: delayed
Status: 4.4.3
Last-Attempt-Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 19:02:17 -0500 (EST)
Will-Retry-Until: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 14:14:28 -0500 (EST)


To: Remove@rmjent.com
From: cypherpunks@toad.com
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 1980 01:47:53 -0500
Reply-To: cypherpunks@toad.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: way@utz.com
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 13:42:21 -0800 (PST)
To: way@utz.com
Subject: Accept Checks By Phone
Message-ID: <19980301524IAA55651@post.ac.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Accept Checks By Fax or Telephone


Accept checks by telephone, fax or e-mail just like credit cards.  The
customers signature is not necessary.  Verbal authorization over the telephone
is all that is needed.  Increase your sales and collection results by 200% and
more.  Don't lose that all important impulse sale because your customer
doesn't have credit card or has no available credit to make a purchase.
Eliminate credit card chargebacks that can cause you to lose your credit card
merchant status!  Collect on that problem customer in advance to save you time
and money.  Do away with the check is in the mail syndrome.  It is fast and
simple to accept checks over the phone.

Donations

Collections

Sales

Monthly Payments

Post Dated Checks



Here's How It Works!

Your telephone sales or collections people simply collect the check
information right there over the phone, Telephone Check Systems supplies all
the necessary forms.  This information can either be faxed into the National
Headquarters 24 hours per day, or called in to them between 9 am and 10 PM EST
on any business day.  As soon as National Headquarters receives the
information they will immediately prepare a check against the customers bank
account.  The checks can be shipped overnight express 
so that you have them in your hands ready to deposit into your bank account
within 24 hours.  You can still withhold shipment for bank clearance just as
you might normally do with checks received in the mail or you can telephone
your customers bank to see if funds are currently available to cover the check
if that is your normal procedure.

Your Cost...As Low as $1 Per Check

Now...enjoy increased sales, payments, collections and donations at a very
economical cost.  Telephone Check Payment Systems' rates are only 1 3/4% of
the amount of the check, with a $1 minimum.  That means that a check for $57
cost you only $1.  A check for $100 cost you only $1.75...less than a credit
card order and less than the charges of any of our competitors that we know
of.  The one-time set up fee is $295 and you can use the service as much or as
little with no monthly penalties, dues or statement fees like there is with
credit card merchant accounts.

There are over 65 million consumers who have checking accounts but do not have
credit cards...plus millions of credit card holders with little or no usable
credit currently available on their cards.  You can dramatically increase your
sales by tapping into this huge market with your ability to take check
payments over the telephone.  To order your check by phone system complete the
order form below and fax to (405) 942-6553 along with your check for $295 or
credit card information.

CHECK BY PHONE ORDER FORM
(Print and fax to (405) 942-6553)

Company Name:

Shipping Address:

City/State/Zip:

Telephone Number:

Fax Number:

Your Name:

Title:

Home Phone:

TAPE YOUR CHECK HERE

or

Complete Credit Card Information Below

Circle One:

Visa   MasterCard   Amex   Discover
Card holders Name:

Card holders Address:

City/State/Zip:

Card Number:

Expiration Date:

____________________________
Signature 






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Perrin ." 
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 21:18:47 -0800 (PST)
To: Yankee1428@aol.com
Subject: Shave Slaughter '98
Message-ID: <19980303051804.28157.qmail@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I have shut down all paint factories in the area.  Shaving cream war!!  
Pshhhhhh... splat!  Ha ha!  Who's laughing now?!  I own all of the 
shaving cream companies!  I own all of their stocks!  Shave Slaughter 
'98 has started.  Prepare to die.

Hairface

-------------------
I'm assuming it's the same rules as Paint War - Perrin
------------------
fixed by Perrin
pleontks@hotmail.com
http://members.tripod.com/~pleontks
http://www.angelfire.com/az/69frank69

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 19:31:16 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: The Bioweaponeers
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980303033445.010a4ea0@pop.pipeline.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


The New Yorker magazine of March 9 has a long shattering
essay on Ken Alibek, the former Soviet bioweapons expert,
William Patrick, the US's counterpart, the state of Russian 
secret bioweapons development, and prospects for the spread
and use of this WMD.

It's far more disturbingly detailed than the New York Times 
and ABC PrimeTime reports, and presents a horrific spectrum of 
gruesome details of nearly unimaginable catastrophe fermenting 
in secret laboratories and deepest black storage tanks.

If you thought nuclear weapons were terrifying, read this for a
shocking introduction to evil which will give even thermonuclear
warriors nightmares of helplessness.

Where Strangelovian physicists once ruled, now reign Mad
microbiologists.

Richard Preston is the writer, featured on PrimeTime and
author of The Hot Zone, on the Ebola virus.

For those without easy access to the magazine we offer a
copy:

   http://jya.com/bioweap.htm  (62K)






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Luckey Promotions" <87469789@15512.com>
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 16:30:30 -0800 (PST)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Mothers day, Mothers day. 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NOW IS YOUR CHANCE TO
      WIN
THE PRIZE BELOW
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  
Prize,  A 9ct Gold diamond set heart shaped pendant with 18inch chain. 
Also a luxury bouquet of flowers along with a box of Belgium chocolates.

Make your mums day special.

To enter answer the question below.
On which day of the week is Mothers Day?

Now Simply Call The Number
Below
0991 118801

The winner will be the first correct entry drawn at random by 11am on Friday 20th March 1998.

This competition is promoted by Luckey Promotions. 333a Licoln Road Peterborough Cambs PE1 2PF.
The closing date for the competition will be Friday 20th March 1998 at 10am. There will be one winner who will be
 the first correct entry drawn from the sack. The winner will be notified by phone on the 20th March 1998 between 
11am-5pm. 
Please ask permission from the person who pays the telephone bill before calling. Calls cost Ł1.00 per minute
Maximum cost of call Ł3:00
Minimum age to enter competition 18 years of age .
Open to U.K residents only.
The winners information can be obtained by calling 0181 2364221
To delete your e mail address from our database please
 inform via mail to the address above.  
  









From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 23:57:10 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Is CDMF secure?
In-Reply-To: <199803030324.EAA18619@basement.replay.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980302235528.008dc220@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


>Is CDMF secure?  and, What sort of algorithm is it?  Thanks.

CMDF is a version of DES watered down to 40-bit key strength.
I think IBM was to blame; it was designed for exportability.

It makes Louis Freeh feel secure, I guess, but it's not
useful for data that needs to be secure.
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: andrew fabbro 
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 01:12:07 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Hard Drive Encryption Packages Comparison (Win 95)
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



	Windows 95 Hard Drive Encryption Packages Comparison
        ----------------------------------------------------

  by Andrew Fabbro  
  3 March 1997

I've had several requests to post this to the cypherpunks list, and I'm
also posting it in the newsgroups where I originally asked for software
suggestions.  This list only compares FEATURES -- I have not done any
independent analysis of these products' claims and have not even tried
the evaluation copies of all of them.  This was originally just for my
own reference -- I've cleaned it up a bit but it isn't exhaustive, or
necessarily fair.

I'm sure there are other packages-- if you think I've left something
significant out, please let me know.  I'd also appreciate any
corrections or giggles at obvious errors in thought.

After getting some feedback/corrections, this will eventually be put on
the Web.

----------
DISCLAIMER
==========

I am just a Doc-Martens-and-earrings cypherpunk, not a security
consultant!  I am not a professional cryptologist, nor a Windows 95
expert.  You should NOT take my opinions at face value -- you should
evaluate these products yourself.  This list is just designed to give
you some starting points and save you some leg work.  Of course, I take
no responsibility, make nor warranties, blah blah...

----------------------------------------
INTRO: EXPLANATION OF LISTINGS AND TERMS
========================================

These packages all provide interface functionality beyond the simple
file-by-file encryption available with, say, PGP.  Either they provide
a drive interface or they allow you to designate a list of files which
are then transparently or automatically de/encrypted in some fashion.
If you have only a few files or anticipate only temporary or infrequent
de/encryption, then PGP or something similar would probably suffice.

I've separated this list into two categories using my own made-up
terms: Virtual Volume programs and File List programs.  VV programs
make a large file on your hard drive which is transparently available
to Win95 as a drive (similar to the way DriveSpace/DoubleSpace works).
Once you authenticate and mount the drive, everything else is
transparent.

With File List programs, you designate a list of files or folders that
you want encrypted.  The encryption package then en/decrypts these
either on-the-fly as you access them, or in bulk at boot-time/
shutdown-time.  Most offer individual file/folder manual operation as
well.  Unlike Virtual Volume programs, which pretty much all operate
the same way, there is a greater variation in interface with File List
programs, so evaluate closely before purchase.

In practice, the difference between Virtual Volume and File List
programs is not that great: you type your password once at login and
everything else is handled by the software.  The only difference is
that with File List programs, you have to designate files or folders,
which might be a more frequent task than designating a single drive.
On the other hand, all of your sensitive files may live in only a few
directories anyway, and File List programs let you place these
files/folders anywhere on your system, mingled in with non-encrypted
files.

There were a few packages which appear to operate in a truly manual
mode -- you decrypt before opening and then encrypt when you're
finished with the file (assuming you don't forget, or become lazy).  If
you're going to do this, just use PGP, which is likely already on your
system already, you little cypherpunk, you, and offers CAST, IDEA, and
Triple-DES.  Packages with manual-mode operation are under
"Manual-Operation Packages" at the end.  Norton is so vague about the
operation of "Your Eyes Only" on their web page that it is listed in
this section.

"Preview" refers to an evaluation copy-- if one is available for
download (be it crippleware or whatever), this field is marked Yes.

----------------
MY PERSONAL PICK
================

I'm still evaluating, but will likely settle on Kremlin.  Even though
virtual volumes seem easier to me, Kremlin has one must-have feature I
haven't found elsewhere: it addresses the Windows swapfile issue.
Windows' swapfile has raw hunks of memory swapped out to disk, which
which could contain anything from any open file.  These swapfiles are
not reliably deleted at shutdown-time, or in the event of a system
crash, and in any event Windows certainly doesn't securely (DoD-style)
delete them.  Some snooper with a boot disk, file recovery utility, and
hex editor could stop by and read previous memory images...talk about
data leakage.

None of these packages allow you to encrypt the swapfile while Windows
is running, but Kremlin's Sentry does the next best thing.  At
shutdown-time, it securely deletes the swapfile and other temp files,
wiping the drive DoD-style.  The fact that Kremlin's design was
obviously thought out from the perspective of an integrated platform
and took this issue into account gives me a warm fuzzy feeling.  Also,
Kremlin offers the most diverse array of algorithms and has some nice
extras, such as a secure Recycle Bin, which is easier to use than
having to remember to run a special secure delete command from the
context menu.  And it's only $35!

If I were administering a site-wide encryption program, I might choose
something that was designed for that environment and offered more
administrative options.  I've made notes on packages which address this
situation and its issues.

----------
SIDE NOTES
==========

BLOWFISH was specifically designed to be fast in software
implementations on 32-bit processors and would likely be the fastest
algorithm you can pick.  I've not noticed any lag when using
BLOWFISH-based systems on a 486-66 w/32MB RAM (hardly a fast machine).

Some publishers only specified a "Genuine RSA Encryption Engine,"
displaying a RSA-licensed logo.  This isn't snake oil, but I'd sure
like to know more about the crypto.

-----------------------
VIRTUAL VOLUME PACKAGES
=======================

Product      : BestCrypt
Manufacturer : Jetico, Inc.
Type         : Virtual Volume
Crypto       : BLOWFISH, GOST, DES
Features     : timeout close, hotkey close, secure delete
Cost         : $89.95
Preview?     : Yes - 30 day trial, after expiration, volume becomes read-only
Web          : http://www.jetico.sci.fi/np_new.htm
Notes        : Joel McNamara (Private Idaho's author) picks this for
	       his Cryptobook specification (see
	       http://www.eskimo.com/~joelm/cryptbk.html).  A
	       completely free and very well-designed DoD-spec file
	       deletion utility is available at Jetico web site, too,
	       as a separate freeware package (BCWipe - get it!)


Product      : SafeHouse
Manufacturer : PC Dynamics
Type         : Virtual Volume
Crypto       : BLOWFISH, FAST, DES/Triple DES
Features     : Configurable passwords/expirations, optional key recovery,
               C++ developer's toolkit available.
Cost         : $79.95
Preview?     : Yes - free trial version with 40-bit DES
Web          : http://www.pcdynamics.com/SafeHouse/
Notes        : key recovery is optional- you can choose to "brand" the
	       volume or not.


Product      : Private Disk (in beta)
Manufacturer : Private Data, Inc.
Type         : Virtual Volume
Crypto       : Not specified - "strong" versions for US/Canada
Features     : 
Cost         : not listed
Preview?     : Beta participation program
Web          : http://www.privatedata.com/
Notes        : I mention this only for die-hard cypherpunks who want
	       to try new toys and might be interested in beta
	       participation.


------------------
FILE LIST PACKAGES
==================

Product      : Kremlin
Manufacturer : Mach5
Type         : File List
Crypto       : CAST, IDEA, BLOWFISH, RC4, Safer SK-128, DES, and NewDES
Features     : Automatic Decrypt/Encrypt at Login/out, includes a secure
               text editor/e-mail package, secure Recycle Bin, Sentry
               program to automate swap/temp/other-file wiping.
Cost         : $35
Preview?     : Yes
Web          : http://www.mach5.com/kremlin/
Notes        : This is a very nice package and my personal pick -- see
	       my notes in the intro.


Product      : RSA SecurePC
Manufacturer : Security Dynamics, Inc.
Type         : File List 
Crypto       : RC4
Features     : Trustee threshold key recovery system, boot lock, screen lock,
               network support, password expiration/rule management
Cost         : Not listed, and I was too lazy to make a phone call to find out
Preview?     : Yes
Web          : http://www.securitydynamics.com/solutions/products/securpc.html
Notes        : The key-recovery system is very well-thought out and
	       involves trustee thresh-holds -- i.e., you can decide
	       that three (or seven or whatever) administrators'
	       signatures are necessary to recovery a key...prevents
	       malicious admins' snooping.  The admin support (for
	       site-wide usage) is also nice.  This product was
	       formerly published by RSA, who now licenses it to
	       Security Dynamics.  This looks like a very well-designed
	       package with many extras for group-use situations,
	       though more crypto options would be nice.


Product      : SecureWin
Manufacturer : Cipher Logics 
Type         : File List
Crypto       : RSA Public.  No further details were specified.
Features     : SecureWin is more of an integrated security environment
	       than just a hard drive encryptor -- it also includes
	       secure deletions, e-mail integration, a password keeper,
	       etc.  There is an extensive access-control facility.
	       Operates via a "secure Start menu," a taskbar add-on.
	       Network support.
Cost         : $29.95 
Preview?     : Yes - 30 day evaluation download.
Web          : http://www.securewin.com/ 
Notes        : Very well done from a user interface point of view and
	       has numerous cool add-ons.  I wish more information was
	       given on the crypto and its implementation.


Product      : F-Secure Desktop
Manufacturer : Data Fellows
Type         : File List 
Crypto       : Triple-DES ("168-bit"), BLOWFISH
Features     : 
Cost         : $99
Preview?     : No
Web          : http://www.datafellows.com/f-secure/desktop/
Notes        : Normally, you specify a set of folders/files to be
	       de/encrypted at login/out.  Alternatively, you can list
	       files as "Top Secret," which means you must manually
	       de/encrypt them via context menu.


Product      : DataGuard
Manufacturer : Secure Services Link, Ltd.
Type         : File List
Crypto       : IDEA, SEAL
Features     : extensive class-based access control, trustee-threshold
               key recovery system
Cost         : $69
Preview?     : No
Web          : http://www.sls.net/dataguard_v2.html
Notes        : The class-based access control lists appear to offer
	       highly configurable access control: classes of data
	       (e.g., workgroup or by sensitivity or whatever), with
	       access rights offered by right to select users.  You can
	       also set "minimum eyes" thresholds for groups-- e.g.,
	       all members or certain members must be present for
	       access to be given.  Encryption or decryption rights can
	       be separated.  This would be very nice for site-wide
	       situations, except...the basic package does not offer
	       network support.  "Pro" and "Net" packages which do are
	       slated for April '98 release.


-------------------------
MANUAL-OPERATION PACKAGES
=========================

Product      : SAFE Folder
Manufacturer : GlobeTech Catana
Type         : File List, Semi-Manual
Crypto       : BLOWFISH
Features     : 
Cost         : $58.75
Preview?     : Yes - password fixed to "DEMO"
Web          : http://www.globetech.se/safe/
Notes        : From the web page, I infer that you have to manually
	       de/encrypt files.  It can operate at a folder level,
	       which is at least some improvement over file-by-file
	       operation.  I didn't see any reason why this product
	       would be better than any of those listed above.


Product      : Your Eyes Only
Manufacturer : Norton (Symantec)
Type         : File List, Manual?
Crypto       : It uses a "Genuine RSA Encryption Engine".
Features     : boot-time lock, screen lock, uses context menu,
               network support
Cost         : $89.95
Preview?     : No
Web          : http://www.symantec.com/yeo/index_product.html	
Notes        : I couldn't tell if this operated in some sort of
	       transparent or automatic fashion like other file list
	       programs, or if you had to encrypt/decrypt each folder
	       manually.  A screen shot shows a user using a context
	       meny that has "Enable SmartLock Folder" and "Disable
	       SmartLock Folder," which implies some non-manual mode of
	       operation.  E-mail to Symantec asking for more
	       information (and details on their crypto) went
	       unanswered.  There is also an administrator's version of
	       this program.


Product      : Stealth Encryptor
Manufacturer : Tropical Software, Inc.
Type         : File List
Crypto       : BLOWFISH, DES ("64-bit")
Features     : installable crypto modules (via .DLL, development kit 
               available), secure delete, e-mail integration
Cost         : $34.95
Preview?     : Yes
Web          : http://www.tropsoft.com/stealth/
Notes        : This package's unique feature is its support for
	       drop-in crypto modules.  Theoretically you could write
	       your own .DLL with another crypto system of your choice
	       and Stealth Encryptor would integrate it.  If you have a
	       burning desire to do this, you might look into this.  SE
	       also features "Stealth Media Encryption" which is "super
	       speed" for image files, executables, etc...presumably
	       with weaker crypto.


Product      : SecureStore 
Manufacturer : Selom Ofori
Type         : Manual
Crypto       : BLOWFISH, DES/Triple-DES, CAST, RC4, Diamond2 
Features     : 
Cost         : $30
Preview?     : Yes
Web          : http://www.freeyellow.com/members/renegade/
Notes        : SecureStore creates archives into which you can
	       place files.  From what I saw on their web site, to
	       access aid files, you have to pull them out of the
	       archive again.  While the screen shots show some nice
	       displays (e.g., which crypto used, compression ratio,
	       etc.), this mode of operation does not appeal to me.


Product      : Pretty Good Privacy (PGP)
Manufacturer : PGP, Inc. (well, Network Associates now, I guess)
Type         : Manual
Crypto       : CAST, IDEA, Triple-DES
Features     : Too many to list.
Cost         : Free
Preview?     : Yes
Web          : http://www.pgp.com/
Notes        : Listed just for the sake of completeness.  And it's
	       not at all bad for manual encrypt/decrypt -- version 5.5
	       has a nice toolbar and tray interface.  But you'll want
	       it for all the other messaging features anyway...







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 19:26:28 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Is CDMF secure?
Message-ID: <199803030324.EAA18619@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Is CDMF secure? and,
What sort of algorithm is it?
Thanks.

        





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mike 
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 21:13:37 -0800 (PST)
To: Bill Stewart 
Subject: Re: Newbie pgp question
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980302002230.0092c210@popd.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <34FB90E2.F5F@mail.nevalink.ru>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Bill Stewart wrote:
Thanks Bill for very good explanation.

> *I assume you're not the KGB or Mafia, because then you would just
> beat up the guy until he gives you the passphrase.

O-o! You are well informed in what is going on! The "guy" is in fact
pretty girl - one man's secretary, so those methods are not for this
case. But may be I'd better brute force her instead of her secring? :)
-- 

*******************************************
Mike Blazer
blazer@mail.nevalink.ru
*******************************************




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: JWRCLUM 
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 06:24:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Medical Privacy Alert
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


AMERICAN CIVIL LIBERTIES UNION OF MASSACHUSETTS
99 Chauncy Street, Suite 310, Boston, MA 02111
(617) 482-3170  Fax (617) 451-000


CONTACT:	John Roberts
(617) 482-3170     http://users.aol.com/mcluf/home.html

BENNETT-JEFFORDS BILL PLACES MEDICAL RECORD PRIVACY AT RISK

	The confidentiality of the doctor-patient relationship will be totally
undermined as medical records become widely available without patient
knowledge or consent.	

	BOSTON - February 27, 1998.   On Thursday 2/26/98 the United State Senate's
Labor and Human Resources Committee heard testimony concerning a bill proposed
by Senators Bennett and Jeffords that, if passed, would license the widespread
disclosure of personal medical information contained in files held by doctors,
hospitals, employers, educational institutions, and others.
	The bill which purports to be a privacy bill is, in fact, just the opposite.
It places virtually no restrictions on the disclosure of personal medical
records within health care entities (no matter how large and geographically
widespread) or to a long list of other entities and agencies including the
following:  
	-  any agents or contractors of the health care entities 
	-  Public Health Agencies, Oversight Agencies
	-  Health Care Accreditation Agencies
	-  State Health Care Databases

There are major loopholes in access provisions for
	-  Health Care Researchers
	-  "Outcome" analysts ("cost/benefit" analysts for hospitals, HMO's,
insurers, etc)
	
	Even law enforcement agencies will have easy access to browse computerized
medical record systems for so-called "legitimate" investigatory purposes.
This will make every American's medical record part of a new massive law
enforcement database.
	The bill will destroy the confidential "doctor-patient relationship" and
replace it with a new "patient-health care industry relationship."
	"This bill serves only the interests of the burgeoning health care industry,"
said John Roberts, Executive Director of the ACLU of Massachusetts.  "It
allows the transfer of your medical records to many entities that stand to
profit from its information.  Gone is doctor-patient confidentiality.  Your
doctor cannot protect your most sensitive medical information from many
entities outside your medical facility.  Even employers who have health plans
are considered 'health care providers' in the Bennett-Jeffords bill.  How many
of us want our employers to have access to any of our medical records without
our knowledge or consent?"  
	The bill will also
	-  Impose requirements that patients sign blanket consent forms for release
of information as a condition of getting treatment, even for self-pay patients
	- Redefine "treatment" to make the patient's record a subject of continuous
research
	- Blur the boundaries between individual patient care and the so-called
"Population Management" and "Disease System Management"
	The bill will pre-empt all state laws which may be more protective of the
confidentiality of medical records.
	The bill will not apply even its own minimal privacy protections to so-called
"non-identifiable" medical records information.  But...interestingly, the bill
also refers to issuing "keys" to re-identify previously purportedly "non-
identified" information.  A formal logical analysis of this reveals that the
bill itself admits that what it calls "nonidentifiable" medical record
information is actually identifiable (i.e. containing patient information).
	The ACLU of Massachusetts believes that what is really needed for medical
privacy protection would be the following:
	-  Federal law should set a foundation or floor of privacy protection
	-  State laws which are more-protective of patient's rights should not be
preempted 
	-  No "Unique Patient Identification Numbers"
	-  No electronic "linkage" of patient records stored in various sites
	-  Computerized patient records must be encrypted with keys provided only to
those directly involved in the individual patient care
	-  The right of the individual patient to contract directly with physicians
and health care providers regarding the privacy of the patient's medical
records.

	-end-






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 11:38:51 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Radio Frequency Warfare Hearing
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19980228131755.00718780@pop.pipeline.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980303110231.007f1270@otc.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 12:56 PM 3/2/98 -0800, bill.stewart@pobox.com wrote:
>At 08:17 AM 2/28/98 -0500, John Young wrote:
>>We offer the lengthy prepared testimony at the Joint 
>>Economic Committee hearing February 25 on "Radio Frequency 
>>Weapons and Proliferation: Potential Impact on the Economy."
>>  http://jya.com/rfw-jec.htm  (112K)
>
>John!  You can't do that!  That's putting bomb-making information
>on the Internet!  

Its not bomb-making, its destructive testing apparatus :-)

>On a slightly more serious note, I'm surprised from the
>excerpts of the description that the $500 of parts would
>generate enough joules of electrical energy induced into
>sensitive parts of computer equipment in some reasonable range
>to do a lot of damage.

Wasn't he talking about EMI, not actual frying of chips (e.g.,
puncturing the 100's-of-nm-thick gate oxides in MOS)?
I read only the excerpt, but isn't a spark gap used for 
generating a broad spectrum, including fairly high
frequencies (think tesla coil)?  

Digital circuits don't like transients in their signals.
High frequency RF is invasive.
Capacitors are cheap.



------------------------------------------------------------
      David Honig                   Orbit Technology
     honig@otc.net                  Intaanetto Jigyoubu

"Moderation in temper is always a virtue; but moderation in principle is
always a vice." ---Thomas Paine







	















From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Bert-Jaap Koops" 
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 02:18:28 -0800 (PST)
To: krypto@rhein-main.de
Subject: Crypto Law Survey updated
Message-ID: <62D6BE0479@frw3.kub.nl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I have just updated my survey of existing and envisaged cryptography
laws and regulations. See the Crypto Law Survey at
http://cwis.kub.nl/~frw/people/koops/lawsurvy.htm

This update includes:
-update on European Union (ETSI on TTP; Eckhert statement; 
     COM (97) 503 "not important"; Birmingham conference), 
     Council of Europe (PC-CY), Belgium (law amended),
     Canada (crypto policy discussion paper), France (Lorentz report),
     Gemany (Sandl statement; no backdoor in Pluto), Israel (export
     revision), Netherlands (proposals to extend decryption command;
     TTP project; encrypt to "seize"; use remains free), Scandinavia
     (PSS no longer Nordic), United Kingdom (policy announcement
     delayed; SfL resolution), United States (interim export rule;
     California resolution; czar travels; Compsec Enhancement Act;
     Kerrey McCain revised; AES conference) 
-corrections on Estonia (controls were reported), Switzerland (telecom > radio)
-clarification on Wassenaar Arrangement (General Software Note),
     Germany (export), Israel (case-by-case decisions), Sweden
     (Internet export), US (SAFE versions) 
-URL added to Canada (gov PKI), Hong Kong (export)

Kind regards,
Bert-Jaap

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Bert-Jaap Koops                         tel     +31 13 466 8101
Center for Law, Administration and      facs    +31 13 466 8149
Informatization, Tilburg University     e-mail  E.J.Koops@kub.nl
                  --------------------------------------------------
Postbus 90153    |  This world's just mad enough to have been made  |
5000 LE Tilburg  |    by the Being his beings into being prayed.    |
The Netherlands  |                (Howard Nemerov)                  |
---------------------------------------------------------------------
         http://cwis.kub.nl/~frw/people/koops/bertjaap.htm
---------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Camp 
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 09:08:58 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



help b093161c@bc.seflin.org





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 11:58:47 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Original Sources for Echelon
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980303200229.010ba928@pop.pipeline.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Duncan Campbell has posted the message below on Echelon. 
Would anyone happen to have a copy of the 1988 New Statesman
article? If not, I'll dig it out of a library. More importantly, as 
Duncan asks, does anyone know of other original info on Echelon?

----------

Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 23:35:59
To: ukcrypto@maillist.ox.ac.uk
From: Duncan Campbell 
Subject: Original sources regarding the ECHELON sigint network

>>The New York times has recently run a story regarding a "telecommunications
>>interception network" operating in Europe.
>>My recollection is that news broke about this some time last year, thanks
>>to revelations in New Zealand. Sorry, I don't have a good reference to
>> hand.


The original and primary source for information on ECHELON is an article I
wrote in New Statesman magazine ten years ago : NS, 12 August 1988 :
"They've got it taped".  

In 1991, a UK World in Action programme added an important new detail about
the network, namely the presence of a DICTIONARY computer (a key part of
the system) at  GCHQ's processing centre in Westminster.  

In 1993, I produced a documentary for Channel 4 - "The Hill" which related
ECHELON to the work of the Menwith Hill NSA field station near Harrogate in
Yorkshire.  

In 1996, Nicky Hager in New Zealand described in his book "Secret Power"
the presence of DICTIONARY computers at two New Zealand sigint stations,
and gave extensive details of the local programming and tasking of the
ECHELON "dictionaries".  

Apart from these sources, so far as I am aware all the reports that are
around are derivative and reprocessed.  The European Parliament STOA
committee report from the "Omega Foundation" is in this category and was in
fact submitted rather more than a year ago.  If anyone is aware of any
other *original* publication on this topic, could they post it. The arrival
in the public domain of original information in this area is a rarity, yet
is the foundation for the only things we "know" about the scale of NSA/GCHQ
surveillance and processing. 

Duncan Campbell 






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Perrin ." 
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 17:08:01 -0800 (PST)
To: Yankee1428@aol.com
Subject: Fwd: Thoughts
Message-ID: <19980304010725.7222.qmail@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Not So Deep Thoughts

Should vegetarians eat animal crackers?
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you.
The pen is mightier than the sword -- if the sword is very small and the
pen is real sharp.
If  you throw a cat out a car window, does it become kitty litter?
Call me insane one more time and I'll eat your other eye!
I didn't fight my way to the top of the food chain to be a vegetarian.
When it rains, why don't sheep shrink?
The two biggest problems in America are making ends meet and making
meetings end.
Stupidity got us into this mess.  Why can't it get us out?
The trouble with doing nothing is that you never know when you are
finished.
Money isn't everything, but at least it encourages relatives to stay in
touch.
If a stealth bomber crashes in a forest, does it make a sound?
A single fact can spoil a good argument.
Growing old is mandatory, but growing up is optional.
I do whatever my Rice Krispies tell me to.
Why do we sing "Take me out to the ball game" when we're already there?

----------------
fixed by Perrin
pleontks@hotmail.com
http://members.tripod.com/~pleontks
http://www.angelfire.com/az/69frank69

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Perrin ." 
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 17:22:57 -0800 (PST)
To: Yankee1428@aol.com
Subject: Fwd: Taglines
Message-ID: <19980304012223.18225.qmail@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



   ***    Some Funny Taglines    *****

2 rules to success in life. 1. Don't tell people everything you know.
A good pun is its own reword.
A penny for your thoughts; $20 to act them out.
After silence, music comes closest to expressing the inexpressible.
Alcoholic:  Someone you don't like who drinks as much as you do.
All things are possible, except skiing through a revolving door.
Any man who can see through women is sure missing a lot.
Apathy Error:  Don't bother striking any key.
Blessed are the censors; they shall inhibit the earth.
Budget: A method for going broke methodically.
Can you think of another word for "synonym"?
Circle:  A line that meets its other end without ending.
Civilized people need love for full sexual satisfaction.
Cole's Law: Thinly sliced cabbage.
Conscience is what hurts when everything else feels good.
Consider what might be fertilizing the greener grass across the fence.
Death and taxes are inevitable; at least death doesn't get worse every =
year.
Defeat is worse than death because you have to live with defeat.
Despite the high cost of living, it remains popular.
Does Time pass? Yes, it does. How else can you explain Visa bills?
Don't use no double negatives, not never.
Don't sweat the petty things, just pet the sweaty things.
Don't eat the yellow snow.
Down with categorical imperatives.
Either I'm dead or my watch has stopped. =20
Electricity comes from electrons; morality comes from morons.
Everything in moderation, including moderation.
Familiarity breeds children.
Fast, Cheap, Good:  Choose any two.
Fools rush in -- and get the best seats in the house.
Give me chastity and continence, but not just now.  -- St. Augustine
Have an adequate day.
He has the heart of a little child...  it's in a jar on his desk.
He who dies with the most toys is nonetheless dead.
He who laughs last didn't get the joke.
Honesty is the best policy, but insanity is a better defense.
Horse sense is the thing a horse has that keeps it from betting on =
people.
Hospitality:  Making your guests feel at home, even though you wish they 
=
were.
How come wrong numbers are never busy?
I bet you have never seen a plumber bite his nails.
I do a lot of thinking in the john. Says a lot for my thoughts.
I have had a perfectly wonderful evening.  But this wasn't it.  -- =
Groucho Marx
I have seen the future and it is just like the present, only longer.  -- 
=
Albran
I like work; it fascinates me.  I can sit and look at it for hours.
I may not be the world's greatest lover, but number seven's not bad.  -- 
=
Allen
I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception.  -- Marx 
=
I
will meet you at the corner of Walk and Don't Walk.
I never made a mistake in my life.  I thought I did once, but I was =
wrong.
I used to be lost in the shuffle.  Now I just shuffle along with the =
lost.
I want to die in my sleep like my father, not screaming like his =
passengers.
I will always love the false image I had of you.
I would give my right arm to be ambidextrous.
I would like to help you out.  Which way did you come in?
If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that you tried.
If at first you don't succeed, you probably didn't really care anyway.
If at first you do succeed, try to hide your astonishment.
If it wasn't for muscle spasms, I wouldn't get any exercise at all.
If it were truly the thought that counted, more women would be pregnant.
If there is no God, who pops up the next Kleenex?  -- Art Hoppe
If time heals all wounds, how come bellybuttons don't fill in?
If today is the first day of the rest of your life, what was yesterday?
Illiterate?  Write for free help.
In order to get a loan you must first prove you don't need it.
It doesn't matter whether you win or lose -- until you lose.
It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education.  -- Albert =
Einstein
It is better to have loved and lost than just to have lost.
It is not an optical illusion, it just looks like one.  -- Phil White=20
It was a brave man that ate the first oyster.
I'll procrastinate...tomorrow.
I'll race you to China.  You can have a head start.  Ready, set, GO!
Keep a very firm grasp on reality, so you can strangle it at any time.
Keep stress out of your life.  Give it to others instead.
Knocked; you weren't in.  -- Opportunity=20
Know what I hate most?  Rhetorical questions.  -- Henry Camp=20
Laugh at your problems; everybody else does.
Laugh, and the world ignores you.  Crying doesn't help either.
Lead me not into temptation.  I can find it myself.
Life is like a fountain...  I will tell you how when I figure it out.
Life is like an analogy.
Make a firm decision now...  you can always change it later.
Male zebras have white stripes, but female zebras have black stripes.
May you die in bed at 95, shot by a jealous spouse.
Money DOES talk -- it says good-bye.
Most of us hate to see a poor loser. Rich winners, though, are worse.
Mr. Bullfrog sez:  Time is fun when you're having flies.
My name is Annie Key. Ouch! Why are you hitting me?!
My mother is a travel agent for guilt trips.
My opinions might have changed, but not the fact that I am right.
Never deprive someone of hope; it may be all they have.
Never put off till tomorrow what you can ignore entirely.
Never forget: 2 + 2 =3D 5 for extremely large values of 2.
Never hit a man with glasses.  Use your fist.
Next time you wave at me, use more than one finger, please.
No prizes for predicting rain.  Prizes only awarded for building arks.
Nobody ever goes there, it's too crowded. (I've actually HEARD this!)=20
Nothing cures insomnia like the realization that it is time to get up.
One good turn usually gets most of the blanket.
Our policy is, when in doubt, do the right thing.  -- Roy Ash=20
Out of the mouths of babes does often come cereal.
People who think they know everything greatly annoy those of us who do.
Politics: n. from Greek; "poli" - many; "tics" - ugly, bloodsucking =
parasites.
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.  (Anything in Latin sounds =
profound.)
Radioactive cats have 18 half-lives.
Some people would not recognize subtlety if it hit them on the head.
Someday you will get your big chance -- or have you already had it?
Sometimes you're the bug, and sometimes you're the windshield.
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.  -- Sigmund Freud=20
Stealing a rhinoceros should not be attempted lightly.
That was Zen; this is Tao.
The generation of random numbers is too important to be left to chance.
The trouble with political jokes is that they get elected.
The secret of success is sincerity.  Once you can fake that, you have it 
=
made.
The death rate on Earth is: .... (computing) .... One per person.
The most enjoyable form of sex education is the Braille method.
The number watching you is proportional to the stupidity of your action.
The trouble with being punctual is that no one is there to appreciate =
it.
There are 3 kinds of people: Those who can count and those who can't.
There must be more to life than sitting wondering if there is more to =
life.
They laughed when I said I'd be a comedian. They aren't laughing now.
This aphorism would be seven words long if it were six words shorter.
This will be a memorable month -- no matter how hard you try to forget =
it.
This is the sort of English up with which I will not put.  -- Winston =
Churchill
This sentence contradicts itself: no, wait, actually it doesn't.
To err is human.  To admit it is a blunder.
To err is human.  To blame someone else for your errors is even more =
human.
Toe:  A part of the foot used to find furniture in the dark.  -- Rilla =
May=20
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
Under capitalism, man exploits man.  Under communism, it is just the =
opposite.
We aren't sure how clouds form.  But they know, that is what counts.
What is mind?  No matter.  What is matter?  Never mind.  -- Thomas 
Key=20
What if there were no hypothetical situations? --Andrew Kohlsmith=20
When you are in it up to your ears, keep your mouth shut.
When professors want your opinion, they'll give it to you.
Where there is a will, there is an Inheritance Tax.
Why don't "minimalists" find a shorter name for themselves?
Why is "abbreviated" such a long word?
Why take life seriously? You're not coming out of it alive anyway!
Why isn't "phonetic" spelled the way it's said?
Winning isn't everything, but losing isn't anything.
You simply *must* stop taking other people's advice.
You can fool some of the people some of the time, and that is =
sufficient.
You have the capacity to learn from mistakes.  You will learn a lot =
today.
Your lucky number is 364958674928.  Watch for it everywhere.

----------
fixed by Perrin
pleontks@hotmail.com
http://members.tripod.com/~pleontks
http://www.angelfire.com/az/69frank69

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Frantz 
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 23:32:30 -0800 (PST)
To: Bill Stewart 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 11:55 PM -0800 3/2/98, Bill Stewart wrote:
>>Is CDMF secure?  and, What sort of algorithm is it?  Thanks.
>
>CMDF is a version of DES watered down to 40-bit key strength.
>I think IBM was to blame; it was designed for exportability.

Well, to IBM's credit, they didn't call it secure.  They called it a Data
Masking Facility.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz       | Market research shows the  | Periwinkle -- Consulting
(408)356-8506     | average customer has one   | 16345 Englewood Ave.
frantz@netcom.com | teat and one testicle.     | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Dr. Alan Sherman" 
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 20:01:30 -0800 (PST)
To: Crypto Announce -- Crypto UMBC 
Subject: Barry Smith (FBI) to speak this Friday at 3:30pm
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


   The UMBC Security Technology Research Group presents

     A Law-Enforcement Perspective on Encryption Policy

			Barry Smith
	       Supervisory Special Agent, FBI

	    moderated by journalist Peter Wayner

		      3:30pm - 5:00pm
		   Friday, March 6, 1998
		      Lecture Hall III
	       University of Maryland, Baltimore County
    http://www.cs.umbc.edu/events/spring98/crypto.shtml

The second lecture and discussion in a two-part forum on
encryption policy.  Journalist Peter Wayner will introduce
and moderate the event, which is free and open to the
public.  In Part I, freedom activist John Gilmore and Fritz
Fielding (Ex-Associate General Councel, NSA) gave their
divergent views, focusing on the Burnstein case.

Barry Smith will articulate the needs of law enforcement to
conduct lawful wiretaps; he will advocate the use of
key-recovery techniques to achieve this end as a way that
provides adequate privacy to law-abiding citizens.

Schedule: The event will begin with a brief (10 minute)
introduction by Peter Wayner.  Following Barry Smith's talk,
which will last approximately 45 minutes, there will be an
opportunity to ask questions for approximately 20-30
minutes.

Questions: Attendees are encouraged to ask questions in
advance by sending email to sherman@cs.umbc.edu

Directions: Take Exit #47B off interstate I-95 and follow
signs to UMBC.  LH III is in the Administration Building,
adjacent visitor's parking lot near the I-95 entrance to
UMBC.  

Host: Dr. Alan T. Sherman
      Associate Professor, Computer Science
      sherman@cs.umbc.edu
      http://www.umbc.edu
      (410) 455-2666

     This event is held in cooperation with the UMBC
	       Intellectual Sports Council
		       Honors College
	       Phi Beta Kappa honors society
                   CMSC Council of Majors
		   IFSM Council of Majors
		ACM Student Chapter at UMCP






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 01:48:06 -0800 (PST)
To: Michael Camp 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980304014614.00874cc0@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 12:09 PM 3/3/98 -0500, Michael Camp wrote:
>
>help b093161c@bc.seflin.org
>
>
>
cypherpunks-request@algebra.com
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Unicorn 
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 23:51:39 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: DDJ Crypto CD has arrived!
In-Reply-To: <34F25310.2A29@ziplink.net>
Message-ID: <19980304083749.53098@sequent.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


--- On Mar 02, Random User apparently wrote -----------------------------------

> On Mon, 23 Feb 1998, Peter Trei wrote:
> 
> > Well, it's finally here.
> 
> It has also arrive in Canada.

So when will it arrive outside of the US and Canada? ;-)

--- and thus sprach: Random User  ---------------------

Ciao,
Unicorn.
-- 
======= _ __,;;;/ TimeWaster (GSM: +31 653 261 368) =========================
     ,;( )_, )~\| A Truly Wise Man Never Plays   PGP: 64 07 5D 4C 3F 81 22 73
    ;; //  `--;     Leapfrog With A Unicorn...        52 9D 87 08 51 AA 35 F0
==='= ;\ = | ==== Youth is not a time in Life, It is a State of Mind! =======





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Lucky Green 
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 03:08:42 -0800 (PST)
To: Unicorn 
Subject: Re: DDJ Crypto CD has arrived!
In-Reply-To: <19980304083749.53098@sequent.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, Unicorn wrote:

> --- On Mar 02, Random User apparently wrote -----------------------------------
> 
> > On Mon, 23 Feb 1998, Peter Trei wrote:
> > 
> > > Well, it's finally here.
> > 
> > It has also arrive in Canada.
> 
> So when will it arrive outside of the US and Canada? ;-)

It hasn't yet? These Cypher Criminals are losing their edge.

-- Lucky Green  PGP v5 encrypted email preferred.
   "Tonga? Where the hell is Tonga? They have Cypherpunks there?"





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 13:16:11 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Senator plans to ban .gov porn-parodies; new crypto-campaign
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 13:15:35 -0800 (PST)
From: Declan McCullagh 
To: politech@vorlon.mit.edu
Subject: Senator plans to ban .gov porn-parodies; new crypto-campaign

More on Gates in NYC and the FBI's antihacker crusade is at
the URL below. --Declan

===========

http://cgi.pathfinder.com/netly/afternoon/0,1012,1782,00.html

The Netly News / Afternoon Line
March 4, 1998

Loin-cloth

   One lawmaker who doesn't seem to have much of a sense of humor about
   titillating web sites is Sen. Lauch Faircloth (R-N.C.). When his
   presumably technology-impaired staffer stumbled across whitehouse.com
   and found not Hillary Clinton's child care proposals but a doctored
   photo of Hillary in leather, Faircloth decided to take action. "I plan
   to introduce legislation that would ban the assignment of popular
   government agency names to anyone," he told The Netly News after
   speaking at an Internet child safety seminar this afternoon. "Can you
   imagine how many people have thought they were contacting the White
   House only to see that?" A better question might be which site is the
   more popular one. --By Declan McCullagh/Washington

Might Makes Right

       Congress rarely does the right thing for the right reason.Instead,
   lobbyists vie to make voting the wrong way too politically costly for
   legislators.

       Now a new coalition, called Americans for Computer Privacy, is
   trying out this strategy on encryption legislation. The group of high
   tech firms and nonprofit groups aims to convince lawmakers that
   supporting restrictions on either the domestic use or overseas
   shipment of encryption productions is too politically painful.

       "We would not turn the keys to our front doors over the
   government. Why should we have to turn over the keys to our
   computers?" asked ACP counsel and former White House lawyer Jack
   Quinn.
   
         To convince Americans that ACP's answer is the right one, the
   coalition has gathered together an advisory panel of former spooks and
   law enforcement agents.

       Quinn told the Netly News that his strategy has already won
   results: "Senior officials at the National Security Council and the
   vice president's office" this morning signaled they're willing to sit
   down at the table for a friendly chat about crypto-laws. --By Declan
   McCullagh/Washington








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 23:50:43 -0800 (PST)
To: Robert Hettinga 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980304152937.007e0c20@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Nice article, and I'll have to see if I can get Ian
to talk about HINDE for this month's Bay Area Cypherpunks.

One thing I noticed while reading it, though, is that you still have
"and then you go to jail" at the end of some transaction failure branches,
though most of the failure branches end with "Nothing happens".
While you're not doing book entry at every step,
bearer instruments still depend on the maker honoring them,
whether it's exchanging the bank note for gold pieces
or trading the digicash bits for Federal Reserve Notes --
"then the banker goes to jail" can still happen,
and a digicash world may not have as many S&L Bailout
political favors as the Reagan Years provided.
Also, there are the transactions where you trade
digicash for goods&services, and there's still the problem
of making sure the goods&services got delivered,
making sure the payment got delivered, and dealing with
poor quality products.  For purely digital products,
like consulting hours, movies, and microcode, there are
protocols that can take care of the exchange,
but for goods&services involving real stuff,
like pizza delivery, there's still an element of
trust required.
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 17:10:38 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Win95/NT attack in CNN news
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980304171023.0079bd10@206.40.207.40>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



http://www.cnn.com/TECH/computing/9803/04/internet.attack.ap/


Hacker attack crashes
                    Windows systems
                    coast-to-coast

                    March 4, 1998
                    Web posted at: 10:05 a.m. EST (1505 GMT) 

                    SAN DIEGO (AP) -- Computer
                    security experts blame hackers for
                    an Internet attack that caused
                    computers running Microsoft's
                    Windows NT software to crash
                    from coast to coast, mostly in
                    government and university offices. 

                    While no real harm was done, it
                    was too early to gauge the full extent of the attack.
Experts said the
                    far-flung glitches could only have been the result of a
deliberate act,
                    The San Diego Union-Tribune reported Wednesday. 

                    The crash Monday night affected computers running
Windows NT
                    -- the operating system for larger computers and
networks -- and
                    Windows 95. 

                    Problems were reported at the Massachusetts Institute of
                    Technology, Northwestern University, the University of
Minnesota
                    and University of California campuses in Berkeley,
Irvine, Los
                    Angeles and San Diego. 

                    Unclassified Navy computers connected to the Internet
also crashed
                    on Point Loma and in Charleston, South Carolina,
Norfolk, Virginia,
                    and elsewhere. 

                    "It happened so fast," said Craig Huckabee, a research
associate in
                    the Computer Systems Laboratory at the University of
Wisconsin.
                    "In our department, I would have to say about 90
percent of the
                    machines were affected." 

                    Despite the coordination of the attack, the computers
that crashed
                    could be restarted without losing information, computer
security
                    experts said. 

                    The attackers used the Internet to broadly distribute a
snippet of
                    deliberately malformed data, said Ron Broersma, a
civilian computer
                    security expert at the Navy labs on Point Loma. 

                    The prank exploits a glitch in the Windows NT program by
                    instructing the computer to devote excessive memory
resources to
                    solve a problem that can't be solved. 

                    Microsoft security manager Ed Muth said the company is
working
                    on a software patch that fixes the vulnerability in
Windows NT
                    programs. 

                    An unidentified Microsoft executive told the
Union-Tribune it was
                    unknown if the attack was related to Microsoft Chairman
Bill Gates'
                    appearance Tuesday at a Senate hearing where he
defended his
                    company against allegations of antitrust violations. 
------------------------------------------------------------
      David Honig                   Orbit Technology
     honig@otc.net                  Intaanetto Jigyoubu

"But if we have to use force, 
it is because we are America;
we are the indispensable nation."
---Secretary of State Madeleine K. Albright
http://www.jya.com/see-far.htm







	















From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Marshall Clow 
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 17:49:32 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Win95/NT attack in CNN news
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980304171023.0079bd10@206.40.207.40>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


The best part about it was the quote on the front page of the
San Diego Union-Tribune:

"This is so weird, so widespread, and the press doesn't seem to know about
it," Broersma said. "Maybe it's because people are used to their Windows
software crashing all the time."

-- Marshall

Marshall Clow     Adobe Systems   

Warning: Objects in calendar are closer than they appear.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 18:51:16 -0800 (PST)
To: j orlin grabbe 
Subject: Brickell and Sandia
Message-ID: <34FE12B4.6021@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Wednesday 3/4/98 6:59 PM

Orlin

While trying to recover from the stomach flu, I am going over your stuff
summarized at 

  http://www.aci.net/kalliste/dcguide.htm

You wrote at [Brickell-Gemmell-Kravitz.]
http://www.aci.net/kalliste/sandia.htm

  Sandia National Laboratories have created the digital cash equivalent
of the Clipper chip: an "anonymous"     
  digital cash system that would give participants privacy from all
viewers, except for the government agencies 
  that would control the secret keys required for backdoor access.

and  

  Why is Sandia interested in digital cash systems? Well, Sandia is
responsible for all non-nuclear components    
  of nuclear weapons.  The security of nuclear weapons depends partly on
cryptology. The code- breaking 
  National Security Agency (NSA), for example,  is responsible for the
communication security of the 
  Minuteman missile, as well as the codes by which the President must
identify himself to authorize a nuclear   
  strike.

Brickell and Simmons were in the COMPUTATIONAL/COMPUTER SCIENCES & MATH
CENTER,
directorate 1400, at Sandia.

I worked in the ELECTRONIC SUBSYSTEMS CENTER, directorate 2300, 
division 2311, when I was project leader of the Missile Secure
Cryptographic Unit, the small missile,  [between about 1982-86].

All of the nuclear bomb crypto implmentation work was done in 2300, not
1400.

The MAIN difference is that the 2300 people were a bunch of PRACTICAL
engineers and REAL-PRACTICAL software types.  NOT theoreticians.

Gus Simmon once tried to get into the implentation business.  

Simmons bought an Intel 320 [?] development system.  The Intel 320 was a
piece of junk and nothing happened with Simmons' implementation work.

Simmons' try, naturally, caught the attention of 2300 management, for
business reasons, of course.

I LOVE reading all of this stuff from a Sandia historical standpoint.

The REAL WORLD of Sandia crypto stuff in pockmarked by some REAL
SCREW-UPS.  Which all
of us implementers shared so as not to commit the same mistakes again.

I asked my department manager, Kent Parsons, how the screw-ups affected
him.  He responded that
it made him sleepy.  These were MULTI- if not HUNDREDS- million dollar
screw-ups.

Later
bill






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 16:29:36 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: ed yourdon on Y2k armaggedon
In-Reply-To: <199803022316.PAA18159@netcom16.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <199803050029.BAA15356@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


>That said, I'll bet the first taker a dollar against a doughnut that 90%
>of U.S. nuke plants sail right through into the new millenium and don't
>even trip for any technical reason. (I won't bet against
>*political* reasons.)
>
>Why do I think so?
>
>Nuke plants are much less computerized than you might think.
>
>Many still use electromechanical relays to provide important logic
>functions.  Relays have a lot going for them - for instance you never have
>to worry about introduction of stupid software bugs.


What about real bugs introducing themselves into relays? :)

A few years ago a nuke plant wanted to build a computerized control system
and USNRC absolutely gave them hell, requiring them to document every damn
line of it and prove that it could handle all special cases.  But they did
finally approve it.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 00:34:01 -0800 (PST)
To: Bill Stewart 
Subject: Re: Digital Bearer Settlement
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980304152937.007e0c20@popd.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <199803050833.DAA19434@users.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In <3.0.5.32.19980304152937.007e0c20@popd.ix.netcom.com>, on 03/04/98 
   at 03:29 PM, Bill Stewart  said:

>Nice article, and I'll have to see if I can get Ian
>to talk about HINDE for this month's Bay Area Cypherpunks.

>One thing I noticed while reading it, though, is that you still have "and
>then you go to jail" at the end of some transaction failure branches,
>though most of the failure branches end with "Nothing happens". While
>you're not doing book entry at every step,
>bearer instruments still depend on the maker honoring them,
>whether it's exchanging the bank note for gold pieces
>or trading the digicash bits for Federal Reserve Notes --
>"then the banker goes to jail" can still happen,
>and a digicash world may not have as many S&L Bailout
>political favors as the Reagan Years provided.
>Also, there are the transactions where you trade
>digicash for goods&services, and there's still the problem
>of making sure the goods&services got delivered,
>making sure the payment got delivered, and dealing with
>poor quality products.  For purely digital products,
>like consulting hours, movies, and microcode, there are
>protocols that can take care of the exchange,
>but for goods&services involving real stuff,
>like pizza delivery, there's still an element of
>trust required.

Well there are a couple of different approaches depending on the
environment of the transaction.

If it is what I call a "cash and carry" environment where you, the
merchant, and the product are all physically in the same place then the
transaction can take place as any cash transaction would. the merchant
gives you the product, you give him the e-cash bits and the transaction is
done.

If the environment is a "mailorder" environmet where you and the merchant
are in remote locations then there are two different approaches:

- -- COD:

  You place the order, the merchant delivers it. At the time of delivery
you pay for the product.

- -- Escrow:

   You place the order. After placing the order you transfer your e-cash
bits into an escrow account. When the merchant has verification that the
bits are in escrow he ships the product. Upon recept of the product you
release the funds from the escrow account and the merchant is paid.

    Now with escrow based system you can be more creative with the product
insurance end of things. You an the merchant may agree that there will be
a 30 day trial period where the funds will stay in escrow and during that
period you can judge the quality of the product. If a complaint is filed
with the escrow agent within the 30 day period then you would have X
number of days to return the product and get your money back. Merchants
could set up warranty insurance where x% of sales are kept in an escrow
account to cover returns/warranties. All kinds of fun stuff could be done.

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/esecure.html                        
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: OS/2, Windows/0

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3a-sha1
Charset: cp850
Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000

iQCVAwUBNP5VyY9Co1n+aLhhAQGo+wQAtCHzRWIjR/LsSjn8PRTsXzOijfuplLkB
9JSB5nnb1OHaDUGEepx3K3a00yrXrLTQwO9xfopIu6kO7SEQ+miAMZbPRybLBgH/
6CBqr4/+83C+p3PK2KIPIwZkETp37C0/JSBgfjwn+W6XEREtEQxbUhqT6DaqgkPg
gr58Wb8lGRM=
=eJGN
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: debiloo@juno.com
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 09:46:09 -0800 (PST)
To: <--akamriq@aol.com>
Subject: $.03 PHONE CALLS?
Message-ID: <199803051746.JAA18767@cygint.cygnus.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


$.03 PHONE CALLS?
1+ dialing and 800 incoming
Hard To Believe...  But TRUE
With the amazing new Technology, 
you'll see calls on your phone 
bill for $.06, $.04......even $.03
Best of all, it doesn't matter 
what company you're now using.
You don't need to switch carriers!

Call anytime and leave your name,phone #
and a representative will call you back with 
information the phone company 
never wanted you to find out about.

Don't wait , call now! you'll love what we 
have to share with you on this exciting 
New Technology!

Call:   Owen @ 1-408-393-0106




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Avi Rubin 
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 07:15:11 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: List of college and graduate courses in crypto and security
Message-ID: <199803051512.KAA08000@mgoblue.research.att.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I maintain a list of college and gruaduate level courses in security 
and cryptography at

   http://www.cs.nyu.edu/~rubin/courses.html

>From time to time, I like to update the list. If you know of
a full semester course in crypto or security that is not on my
list please let me know. URLs are especially useful. Also, if you 
see something on my list that is out of date, let me know.

Thanks,
Avi


*********************************************************************
Aviel D. Rubin                                 rubin@research.att.com
Secure Systems Research Dept.                Adjunct Professor at NYU
AT&T Labs - Research
180 Park Avenue                   http://www.research.att.com/~rubin/
Florham Park, NJ 07932-0971                    Voice: +1 973 360-8356
USA                                            FAX:   +1 973 360-8809

   --> Check out http://www.clark.net/pub/mjr/websec/ for a new
       book on web security (The Web Security Sourcebook).
*********************************************************************




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: mkwan@preston.net (Matthew Kwan)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 15:13:35 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: DES bitslice S-boxes
Message-ID: <199803042313.KAA10987@preston-gw.preston.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I've been a bit out of touch with the subject for a while, so could
someone please bring me up to speed in the state of the art of DES
bitslice. In particular, what are the best gate counts for the S-boxes?

About a year ago I produced S-boxes with the following counts

        S-box   S1   S2   S3   S4   S5   S6   S7   S8
        Gates   95   84   89   77   96   87   86   88

(You can download them from http://www.cs.mu.oz.au/~mkwan/bitslice)

However, I was recently told that these have now been beaten by a
significant margin. I thought about it for a while, and came up with
some ideas that should improve the count, but I'd like to know what
I'm aiming for.

Any improvements I make will also be made freely available, so you
have an incentive to help me ;-)


mkwan




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 11:18:21 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Feds bust Inet gambling
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980305111814.007a9b20@otc.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



All parties were consenting but the Fed doesn't like it.

First the virtual betting parlors.
Then the virtual banks and cryptocash.



http://dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/technology/wired/story.html?s=n/reuters
/980304/wired/stories/gambling_1.html
	
Wednesday March 4 4:56 PM EST 

U.S. authorities launch Internet gambling crackdown

NEW YORK (Reuters) - U.S. federal authorities charged 14 people on
Wednesday with running gambling sites on the Internet in violation of
federal laws. 

In complaints unsealed in Manhattan Federal Court, the U.S. Attorney's
office charged the 14 with using Internet Web sites and telephone lines to
bet on U.S. football, basketball, hockey and baseball games, charging a 10
percent commission per bet. 

At least some of the defendants were scheduled to appear before a U.S.
magistrate judge later on Wednesday. 

The defendants were charged with using Internet sites to open bettor
accounts, usually with a minimum deposit of $500, and then accepting bets
on games and game score spreads and maintaining accounts for clients. 

Client funds were directed to banks or addresses in such offshore locations
as Antigua, Curacao, Costa Rica and Panama, where betting is legal. But the
complaints alleged that the six operations conducted much of their business
within U.S. borders. 

One defendant, Steven Budin, 27, of SDB Global (www.sdbg.com), said his
business used the Internet only for marketing, not to take bets. 

"We don't take wagers over the Internet," he said. 
------------------------------------------------------------
      David Honig                   Orbit Technology
     honig@otc.net                  Intaanetto Jigyoubu

"But if we have to use force, 
it is because we are America;
we are the indispensable nation."
---Secretary of State Madeleine K. Albright
http://www.jya.com/see-far.htm







	















From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ken Williams 
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 10:11:33 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Hello,

I have more of a general privacy rather than a crypto question.  I am
trying to set up "tripwires" in the various computer accounts that i have
so i will know if a superuser or sysadmin has accessed them.  (it should
be taken for granted at this point that all sensitive or personal data is 
encrypted and/or stored on floppies)  i of course am only concerned with
doing so for accounts that i don't already have su access with.  i have
accounts on various flavors of UNIX, but i am most interested in
tripwires/scripts for Solaris 2.4-6.  so far, the best i have been able to
come up with is a couple of very ineffective tripwires.

1.  a few lines in .Xlogout that write the host/date stamp to a file that
    is hidden a few directories deep.

    - this of course only works if someone logs in to my account using
    my own login/passwd, and it doesn't work over dialup at all.

2.  i have a .environment file that will write all of the relevant user
    info to a file if that user adds my directory with the "add" command

    - this will catch all superuser accesses *if and only if* they add
    my directory.  they could simply cd into my directory to bypass it.

anyone have any ideas for tripwires or any other methods i can use, having
only regular user access, to monitor ANY accesses made to my account,
especially by superusers/sysadmins?


thanks for your consideration of this question,

ken





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 14:04:33 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: y2k: 37% govt computers
Message-ID: <199803052204.OAA11157@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



------- Forwarded Message

Date: Thu, 05 Mar 1998 07:04:43 -0600
To: believer@telepath.com
From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Y2K-37% of most critical gov't computers will not be updated
  in time

Source: Los Angeles Times

Thursday, March 5, 1998 

House Panel Warns of Year 2000 Computer Crisis 
By RALPH VARTABEDIAN, Times Staff Writer

WASHINGTON--In the most dramatic warning yet of an impending computer
crisis in the government, a congressional panel said Wednesday that 37% of
the most critical computers used by federal agencies will not be updated in
time to handle dates in the year 2000 and will be subject to widespread
failure. 

The estimate calls into sharp question past assurances by the Clinton
administration that it is moving quickly enough to avert serious outages
that could undermine military forces, benefit payments to the public and
the nation's air transportation system, among much else. 

With just 666 days left until the year 2000, a slew of reports and
investigations in recent weeks have raised serious concerns that the
government is not acting fast enough to avoid serious problems. 

The executive branch has almost 8,000 computer systems that are considered
critical to government operations, and nearly 3,000 of them will not be
able to read dates in 2000, according to the report issued by the
subcommittee on government management, information and technology of the
House Government Operations and Oversight Committee. The computers will
either shut down or spew out erroneous data. 

California Rep. Steve Horn (R-Long Beach), the subcommittee chairman who
has taken the lead in Congress in solving the problem, issued a "report
card" along with the new report that gave the federal government a D-minus
in its efforts to avoid a crisis. 

"Failure is intolerable," Horn said. 

The year 2000 problem results from widespread use of two digits in software
to designate years. Computers assume that every year starts with "19," so
when 2000 arrives, they will interpret "00" as the year 1900. 

President Clinton created a White House panel on Feb. 4 to lead the
government's efforts in solving the problem and appointed John A. Koskinen,
former deputy director at the Office of Management and Budget, to lead the
effort. But Koskinen has not yet started his work, and his panel has hardly
gotten off the ground after 28 days, according to Horn's staff. 

White House press officials did not respond to queries about Horn's report. 

As the scope of the government's problems become clearer, the cost to avert
a crisis is also growing. The Office of Management and Budget had long
insisted that the problem would cost a little more than $2.3 billion to
fix, but that figure has been growing over the last year. Its most recent
estimate pegged the cost at $4 billion. 

Horn estimated that the government is facing a cost of $10 billion. 

 Copyright Los Angeles Times 

     


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------- End of Forwarded Message





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "jic" 
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 13:42:20 -0800 (PST)
To: Casey631@hotmail.com
Subject: Readme
Message-ID: <199803051737.RAA17689@mailroot.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 01088496@17733.com
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 06:36:16 -0800 (PST)
To: Trader@TradeLeads.Web
Subject: RE: Your Trade Posting
Message-ID: <19943672.886214@relay.connect.com.au >
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 11:24:11 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199803051920.UAA16885@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


In doing a search on the "RELIGIOUS FREEDOM AMENDMENT", Lycos popped over 2000 hits.  In checking out several sites, this one seemed the most rational in discussing the issue.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/const_am.htm









From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: andrew fabbro 
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 17:39:15 -0800 (PST)
To: Ken Williams 
Subject: Login Tripwire Protocols
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


> I have more of a general privacy rather than a crypto question.  I am>
> trying to set up "tripwires" in the various computer accounts that i have>
> so i will know if a superuser or sysadmin has accessed them.  (it should

Can you build a reliable login tripwire on a machine where you don't
have root access and root is likely a malicious character?  The answer
is...maybe!  It requires a fairly sophisticated protocol and a lot of
work...here are three of my ideas that didn't pan out, one that probably
would, and a lot of caveats.  I'd appreciate comments, criticism,
etc. from other 'punks.

THE GOAL

You have an account on a system on which you do not trust root, or on
which you think someone else may be able to log in as you.  You want
to build an automated system which alerts you when someone logs in as
other than yourself.

(n.b.: we're just talking about a login tripwire.  Root doesn't need to
log in as you to read your mail or copy your files).

THE PROBLEM 

The basic problem here is that you can't trust anything on the
insecure system.  Root can modify any file, any binary, your shell, your
environment, the kernel, a program running in memory, logs, devices, etc.
You want to get secure information out of an environment in which all
incoming and outgoing communications can be tampered with at will.

It's sort of like standing in front of a locked door to a speakeasy and
wanting to know if your friend Ivan is inside.  You can slide a paper
through the slat and if Ivan is in inside, require that he prove himself
by signing the paper.  However, if the paper comes back blank and the
bouncer says "he ain't here," how do you know that Ivan isn't tied up
in the back room?

I've thought of some protocols which root could defeat only if he had an
above-average degree of technical sophistication...e.g., examing a running
kernel and modifying it, disassembling binaries, etc.  These are not
normal admin tasks.  However, trusting your adversary to be ill-educated
is poor security practice.  There is one good protocol I thought of,
which would work except for the the #1 problem common to any attempt of
this sort...

THE ACHILLES HEEL

...and the #1 problem is: how do you determine if you (or someone posing
as you) is logged on to the remote machine?  Suppose the bouncer is
honest.  What if your adversaries can make Ivan invisible?  Anything your
account initiates via a .login script or similar can easily be avoided
by root, who can modify these scripts before logging in and restoring
them when done.  This leaves you with some sort of automated checking
to see if you're on, and a system to alert you if you are.

The common ways of determining who's logged on to a system can fail or be
circumvented:

	(a) utmp - notoriously easy to circumvent (utmp provides the info
	for who, finger, etc.)  Sometimes an errant shell will circumvent 
	this accidentally, to say nothing of a concerted effort.  Root can
	modify this trivially.

	(b) ps to look for owned processes -- root can easily write a ps
	program that works normally except for devious reporting when
	he's masquerading as you.  Even if you use a custom program
	(which you have to either import each time or hash-check),
	root can modify the kernel, your environment, etc.

	(c) you can see who owns /dev terminals, but again...

	(d) I'm not sure if there is some method of consulting the kernel.
	Modifying a running kernel is considerably more difficult than
	the above, but if there is a means of consulting the kernel to
	see who's on, root could certainly circumvent it.

You could make SHA message digests of the relavent system binaries and
include checks for them in your robot messanger, but root may already
have changed them.  And remember that root can control your shell,
your environment, etc.

Maybe you assume that your adversary could not do these things.  I don't
think there is no 100% reliable way to see authoritatively who's logged
on to a system, even if your adversary is not a wizard.  However, for
the sake of discussion, let's assume for the moment that you find some
method of determining who's logged in that you feel confidant with,
either because your adversary lacks the technical ability to circumvent
normal methods, or because they are one person secretly being naughty
in an otherwise professional team that would notice changes, or because
your own wizardry outstrips there's.

The next trick is to build a robot to either sit inside the speakeasy to
shout out to you if Ivan is there, or one that goes into the speakeasy,
looks around, and reports back to you.  The trick is making sure that
the robot's voice is not impersonated by your enemies or that it is not
rewired before being sent back to you.

THINGS THAT WON'T WORK

Any kind of notification system that is initiated by your login scripts.

Anything that requires querying the insecure machine from a remote
machine to ask if you're logged on.  Root controls all inbound and
outbound communication.

Any sort of cron job run on the insecure machine -- root can turn these
off, insert a spoofer, do his deeds, and then restore things, with you
being none the wiser.

These protocols all assume you have an account on a trusted machine
that you feel is secure (you fool!), at least from the admin on the
insecure machine.

PROTOCOL #1 - DAEMON

You set up a daemon on the insecure machine which once a minute sees
who's on, and if you're on, sends that information along with a SHA
message digest (hash) of itself and its process number to the remote
machine, who checks to see if the process number or hash has changed,
and then builds a log.  You can then check this log to see if anyone
was on when you don't remember being on.

Problems:

(*) root can monitor outbound mail.  When he sees a message going to
your secure machine, he simply replaces it.

(*) root can grab the daemon's code out of memory, rewrite it so that it
first asks root if it should say you're on, and then proceeds normally,
sending out the same process number and SHA MD as an unmodified daemon
would.  He can even write a daemon that monitors for your daemon,
correcting its output whenever you restart your daemon.

PROTOCOL #2 - DAEMON IMPROVED

Same as #1, but this time the daemon first asks for a public key
from your secure host, and then encrypts its response using that key.
This defeats the first attack above.

Problems:

(*) root can use a classic man-in-the-middle attack to harvest the key
on inbound mail and then encrypt it for outbound mail.  No improvement.

PROTOCOL #3 - PROCMAIL + BINARY ROBOT

The trusted machine contains a set of object files in a linkable state
(i.e., post-compile, pre-link) for a binary robot which (a) checks to
see if you are logged on to whatever machine the robot is running on,
(b) encrypts this information using a public key, and (c) returns the
encrypted "yes/no" to the trusted machine, as well as a SHA message
digest of itself.

You set the following up as a cron job to run every X minutes on the
trusted machine.  The longer the gap, the longer an intruder might be
able to play around unnoticed.  However, the shorter the gap, the higher
the load, and you have to make sure the insecure machine can finish it's
processing within the gap.  Perhaps X should be semi-random.

(a) the trusted machine generates a public/private key pair.  The public
key is placed in a linkable format and linked with the object files for
the binary robot.  The trusted machine notes the outbound binary's SHA
message digest.

(b) the trusted machine mails this binary robot to the insecure machine.
At the insecure machine, you have a .procmailrc which looks for the
robot and  runs it

(c) the robot checks to see if you're online, and encrypts a reply
using the public key that's stored within it.  It sends this back to
the trusted machine.

(d) the trusted machine decrypts the message.  Because each key is
different, one-time, and used sequentially, there should be no replay
attack possibility here.  The trusted machine checks the SHA MD, and
if it's different, goes into alert mode -- sending you e-mail, paging
you, whatever.  Otherwise it just continues to build its log that you
can examine later.  You could do more processing -- perhaps you only
turn on this system on the trusted machine when you're not logged into
the insecure machine.  If it detects you are on while it's running,
it goes into alert mode.

(e) lather, rinse, repeat.  

Problems:

(*) impracticalities of system load, and possible processing time length,
as noted above

(*) Root could sabotage procmail so instead of spawning your robot, it
spawns one of root's.  This mischevious binary then digs out the public
key from your robot's binary code, and returns a message with a "no,
he's not on" message and an SHA message digest of your binary.  (He could
also delete your .procmailrc or otherwise stop your automated system, but
this would be obvious and suspicious).  Since he'll have your binary and
your public key, there is no way to prevent this man-in-the-middle attack.

PROTOCOL #4 - PROCMAIL + BINARY, IMPROVED

Same as #3, but when the trusted machine links your little binary robot,
it randomly selects one of many random object files which contain
some trivial operation for the robot to perform.  The results of this
operation are then appended to the robot's reply.  Examples of these
random operations:

	-- print out the date in format X
	-- print "CNN Anchorwoman Lynn Russell is a goddess"
	-- lookup root's shell and `ls -l` it into the message
	-- print out the first 15 prime numbers into the message
	-- multiply pi by 9.856497 and print out the result
	-- figure the SHA hash of /bin/sh and print it

etc.  If this robot is intercepted, it will be difficult for root's robot
to mimic its behavior.  Yes, root could manually disassemble it and figure 
out what it's secret operation is and build his own binary to mimic it, but 
not in the minute or two that the binary will run before the next robot
each time would likely not work, because the compiler might link them all at
the same place and root's malicious binary could examine the binary and
ferret out the string automatically.

The random operations do not have to be complex, but they must have these
qualities:

	(*) the result must be definitively known to the trusted system
	(e.g., something like "finger root to see when he last logged
	in" will not work.  But "figure 9 to the 7th power and print
	the result" would)

	(*) the operation must be reasonably fast -- you don't want the
	robot doing a long calculation, which might let root analyze
	the robot, kill it, perform the calculation himself (perhaps
	on a faster machine), and spoof the reply.  Diversity is more
	important than complexity

	(*) there must be a large pool of these operations to choose from

	(*) the choosing must be random.  Obviously, it will
	be pseudorandom, but a strong pseudorandom system with
	least-significant time seeds should be sufficient, unless the
	insecure machine's root in this case is root@nsa.gov.

Problems:

(*) again, impracticalities of system load, and possible processing time
length, as noted above

(*) root will be able to save and analyze the robot binaries.  If the
pool is not diverse enough, root might be able to determine the likely
next message and spoof the reply.  This will not be detectable from
the trusted machine's perspective.  However, the trusted machine might
(a) have a large pool of random operations to choose from to make this
impractical, or (b) simply have a subroutine which randomly generates
random operations from a pool of pieces -- e.g., a set of rules from which
it randomly picks, and then performs other random operations to generate
the actual operation.  (i.e., rule #85 says pick three floating-point
numbers and generate an operation wherein the robot has to figure out
the cosine of each).  This would be much more difficult to predict/spoof.

CONCLUSIONS

First and foremost, the difficult of accurately determining who's on
will likely undermine any attempt to set up a login tripwire.

Also, we're talking about a login tripwire.  Suppose I'm root and I
want to copy a file from your home directory called diary-of-my-sexlife.
All I have to do is note the access/modify/change times, copy the file,
and then restore these times with touch(1).  You can't detect or prevent
read-only access.

Going to all the work of implementing protocol #4, the most reliable of
these, would likely result in a reasonably secure way of determing if
you're logged in (again, with the difficulty of determining who's logged
on caveats), but is it worth all this effort?  I was just thinking these
things up because I was bored.  If I really had an account on a system
I didn't trust, I would cancel it.



-- 
 Andrew Fabbro   [afabbro@umich.edu]   [andrewf@jesuswept.com]
 http://www-personal.umich.edu/~afabbro/          313.647.2713 
 "We make money the old fashion way. We print it." - DigiCrime





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 17:40:05 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Gun Grabbers in WASHINGTON -- Friday
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980306014415.0102aa64@pop.pipeline.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Anonymous wrote:
>
>8 a.m.-Noon. POWDER TAGGANTS - Conclusion of a two-day conference by a
>National Resarch Council committee examining the technical viability of
>and issues related to tagging black and smokeless powders.
>	Location: National Academy of Sciences, 2100 C St. NW.
>	Contact: 202-334-2138.


The New York Times reported today that the National Research
Council found that it was not feasible to require taggants in
explosives and recommended that the technology not be pursued.
Instead, it proposed improved licensing and protection of storage.

The panel noted that it would be very difficult to restrict access to
common materials for manufacturing explosives, and that law
enforcement should improve investigation, intelligence and
education of the public.

An unconfirmed Reuters is that the panelists fist-fought tooth-and-nail
gouch&suck-eyeballs over the issue of a confidential investigation to 
determine why there were no ATF agents in Murrah, only the 
head-hammered remains of all the agency's Wintel boxes choked 
with endless incoming of "The Availability of Bombmaking Information 
on the Internet" auto-forwarded from Senator_Feinstein@remailer.to.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: poc@search-engine-help.com
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 22:26:07 -0800 (PST)
To: webmasters@cygnus.com
Subject: Your Web Site's Findability
Message-ID: <199803060625.WAA20788@cygint.cygnus.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





Would you like to improve your website's "find-ability" in
the Search Engines?

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My name is Stephen Mahaney. I am the president of Planet
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Our 65 page manual identifies every trick & technique that
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you.

Our monthly Newsletter keeps you abreast of the latest
techniques and frequent changes that take place in the
dynamic world of "search engine" science.

However, understanding the process does not require a degree
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***************************************************
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the word "remove" in the subject line and you will be
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***************************************************


Thought for the day... 
"The only thing a man can take
beyond this lifetime is his ethics" 







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Dr. Alan Sherman" 
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 03:11:48 -0800 (PST)
To: Crypto Announce -- Crypto UMBC 
Subject: Barry Smith (FBI) speaks today 3:30pm at UMBC
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


   The UMBC Security Technology Research Group presents

     A Law-Enforcement Perspective on Encryption Policy

			Barry Smith
	       Supervisory Special Agent, FBI

	    moderated by journalist Peter Wayner

		      3:30pm - 5:00pm
		   Friday, March 6, 1998
		      Lecture Hall III
	       University of Maryland, Baltimore County
    http://www.cs.umbc.edu/events/spring98/crypto.shtml

The second lecture and discussion in a two-part forum on
encryption policy.  Journalist Peter Wayner will introduce
and moderate the event, which is free and open to the
public.  In Part I, freedom activist John Gilmore and Fritz
Fielding (Ex-Associate General Councel, NSA) gave their
divergent views, focusing on the Burnstein case.

Barry Smith will articulate the needs of law enforcement to
conduct lawful wiretaps; he will advocate the use of
key-recovery techniques to achieve this end as a way that
provides adequate privacy to law-abiding citizens.

Schedule: The event will begin with a brief (10 minute)
introduction by Peter Wayner.  Following Barry Smith's talk,
which will last approximately 45 minutes, there will be an
opportunity to ask questions for approximately 20-30
minutes.

Questions: Attendees are encouraged to ask questions in
advance by sending email to sherman@cs.umbc.edu

Directions: Take Exit #47B off interstate I-95 and follow
signs to UMBC.  LH III is in the Administration Building,
adjacent visitor's parking lot near the I-95 entrance to
UMBC.  

Host: Dr. Alan T. Sherman
      Associate Professor, Computer Science
      sherman@cs.umbc.edu
      http://www.umbc.edu
      (410) 455-2666

     This event is held in cooperation with the UMBC
	       Intellectual Sports Council
		       Honors College
	       Phi Beta Kappa honors society
                   CMSC Council of Majors
		   IFSM Council of Majors
		ACM Student Chapter at UMCP






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ? the Platypus {aka David Formosa} 
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 11:48:20 -0800 (PST)
To: David Honig 
Subject: Re: Feds bust Inet gambling
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980305111814.007a9b20@otc.net>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Thu, 5 Mar 1998, David Honig wrote:

[...]

> U.S. authorities launch Internet gambling crackdown
> 
> NEW YORK (Reuters) - U.S. federal authorities charged 14 people on
> Wednesday with running gambling sites on the Internet in violation of
> federal laws. 

I wonder if thay are going to go after http://www.tab.com.au/ ?
I personaly find these anty-betting laws difficalt to understand.

Please excuse my spelling as I suffer from agraphia see the url in my header. 
Never trust a country with more peaple then sheep. 
Support NoCeM http://www.cm.org/                   
I'm sorry but I just don't consider 'because its yucky' a convincing argument





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 09:48:28 -0800 (PST)
To: andrew fabbro 
Subject: Re: Login Tripwire Protocols
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980306093852.007b3200@otc.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 08:38 PM 3/5/98 -0500, andrew fabbro wrote:
>Can you build a reliable login tripwire on a machine where you don't
>have root access and root is likely a malicious character?  The answer
>is...maybe!  It requires a fairly sophisticated protocol and a lot of
>work...here are three of my ideas that didn't pan out, one that probably
>would, and a lot of caveats.  I'd appreciate comments, criticism,
>etc. from other 'punks.

Look up Ross Anderson et al's paper, Programming Satan's Computer, in
which a similarly omnipotent and malicious programming environment is 
discussed.


------------------------------------------------------------
      David Honig                   Orbit Technology
     honig@otc.net                  Intaanetto Jigyoubu

"But if we have to use force, 
it is because we are America;
we are the indispensable nation."
---Secretary of State Madeleine K. Albright
http://www.jya.com/see-far.htm







	















From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 06:50:57 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: BXA 97 Report on Encryption
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980306145512.0105b03c@pop.pipeline.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


BXA issued its 1997 Annual Report on March 4. We've
excerpted the sections on encryption, which summarize
the administration's policy, goals and accomplisments:

   http://jya.com/bxa97-encry.htm  (43K)

Sample:

In the nine month period from the transfer of commercial 
encryption items to Commerce through the end of FY 1997, 
BXA has received over 1,000 encryption license applications
valued at more than $500,000,000. Forty companies have 
submitted commitment plans which lay out how they will build 
and market key recovery products. These companies include
some of the largest software and hardware manufacturers in 
the country. BXA has approved 32 of these plans; none have
been rejected. Furthermore, eight companies have submitted 
requests for a one-time review of key recovery encryption items 
which will facilitate the establishment of a key management 
infrastructure (KMI). Four of these products have been approved
for eligibility under License Exception KMI. BXA has also 
approved four U.S. entities to serve as their own Key Recovery 
agents for these products (i.e. corporate "self-escrow").





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 10:32:47 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: UPS to market DIGITAL SIGNATURE AUTHENTICATED DIGITAL DOCUMENT DELIVERY, $5 < $x < $10
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980306103212.007aedd0@otc.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



http://dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/technology/wired/story.html?s=n/reuters
/980306/wired/stories/ups_2.html

UPS ships high-tech security along with packages

By Randolph Court 

SAN FRANCISCO (Wired) - United Parcel Service stepped into the
secure-electronic-data-transmission business this week, promising to make
online-document delivery as trustworthy and easy to use as a dollar bill
minted by the US Treasury. 

"We view ourselves as a trusted third party," said Mark Rhoney, vice
president of marketing for electronic commerce at UPS. 

But can UPS shift its focus from shipping cartons into computer bits? Its
move marks a head-on assault at a growing business now handled by much
smaller, specialized high-tech companies. What UPS will offer by the second
quarter of 1998 is an alternative to existing systems offered by lesser
known entities like Entrust Technologies and Network Associates' PGP
division. 

Entrust and PGP hawk encryption systems that allow one person to send a
secure data file to someone else with no meddling from any outsiders. 

UPS's new service, developed in partnerships with Tumbleweed Software and
NetDox, is based on the idea that a supervisor should be involved in the
process to guarantee the integrity of the information being sent. 

Say a lawyer wants to send a contract worth $3 million, but the recipient
decides to tinker with the numbers and knock the figure down to $2.5
million. The situation dissolves to finger pointing, each side saying they
agreed to something different. 

With the UPS system, the data that is sent will be digitally fingerprinted
and archived with time stamps and receipts from each party, so there will
be records of whether or not a document has been tampered with. 

"The document is digitally notarized and legally binding," said NetDox
spokesman Lee Kallman. If there is a finger-pointing situation, UPS will be
able to prove in court exactly what was sent, by whom, who received it, and
when. 

"That's what you don't get with other encryption systems, and that's the
void UPS wants to fill," said Kallman. The service will play a role not
unlike the role a government plays when it guarantees the value of
currency, Kallman said. 

UPS will insure the integrity of each document, and the identity of both
sender and receiver, for up to $100,000. 

The system is called UPS Document Exchange, and it will offer two levels of
security - Dossier for the strong stuff and Courier for the milder version. 

For the most sensitive data, UPS will use a system designed by NetDox that
requires users to download a software client that wraps data - any sort of
digital information, from simple documents to multimedia - in two layers of
encryption, an inner 40-bit layer, and an outer 128-bit layer. 

The data is sent to a UPS server where it is unwrapped, and a digital
fingerprint is taken and stored; then it is re-wrapped and sent to its
destination, where the recipient opens it with the NetDox client software. 

For less-critical data packages, UPS will use a system designed by
Tumbleweed that encrypts data with a varying number of bits to accommodate
the different encryption levels supported by browsers in different countries. 

The encrypted data is then sent to a UPS server, where it is stored at a
128-bit encryption level. The server sends an email message to the
recipient telling him or her the Web address where the data resides and how
it can be accessed via browser with RSA encryption. 

--- 

UPS has been close-mouthed on the question of price, saying only that
delivery will be more expensive than a 32-cent stamp and cheaper than a
traditional overnight delivery. 

NetDox has been charging $5.35 for domestic transactions and $10.70 for
international data exchanges, according to Kallman. But it hasn't had much
competition. If the UPS service proves viable and other competitors emerge,
prices could drop precipitously, Kallman said. 

News of the UPS service was greeted warmly in some corners of the
encryption industry, and skeptically in others. 

"We're very excited to hear that a large company like UPS is rolling out a
broad-based service like this," said Gina Klein Jorasch, director of
enterprise marketing at VeriSign. The company provides digital
certificates, which act like identity cards tying a user's identity to a
public key that enables the encryption process. 

--- 

VeriSign has reason to be hopeful, though. Software clients like the ones
provided by NetDox and Tumbleweed require digital certificates, just like
those provided by VeriSign. 

"A deal between VeriSign and UPS is very conceivable," Jorasch said. 

Jeff Harell, the product manager for PGP products at computer security
giant Network Associates, quarreled with the fundamental idea of involving
outsiders in the data transmission process. 

"Why would a corporate customer want to go to third-party systems?" Harell
asked. "A lot of companies don't want to involve a third party that they
are required to trust." Many companies view their data as too important to
risk exposing to a system with so many junctions and exchange points. 

PGP is a proprietary system. Users sending and receiving data must both
have PGP, and their keys can only be provided and verified by PGP. 

All of this is new in the traditional package delivery industry, but not
unexpected. 

"Now that the Web has become so ubiquitous, this strikes me as something
that UPS and the other delivery companies needed to do," said Rita Knox, an
industry analyst with the Gartner Group. 

"This is a pretty compelling service," Knox added. "It's available 24/7 and
it's virtually instantaneous." 

Federal Express, after a failed attempt to introduce an electronic service
in the early 1980s, ended up setting a standard in the industry in 1995
when it launched a self-service ordering and tracking system on the Web. 

Similar services have since been adopted by UPS and Airborne Express, among
other competitors. Analysts are looking ahead to the possibility of UPS's
online delivery service becoming an industry must-have if it proves
successful. 

"I definitely anticipate another domino effect if UPS has any success with
this at all," said Michael Sullivan-Trainer of International Data Corp.
"All it takes is one competitor to introduce a new software innovation and
it changes industry dynamics." 
------------------------------------------------------------
      David Honig                   Orbit Technology
     honig@otc.net                  Intaanetto Jigyoubu

"But if we have to use force, 
it is because we are America;
we are the indispensable nation."
---Secretary of State Madeleine K. Albright
http://www.jya.com/see-far.htm







	















From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 12:16:25 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980306121618.007b7a10@otc.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Politicians still think they're relevant...

Given that this bill passed 414-1, it'll likely be US law soon.

Does this mean that law enforcement will now need a judicial wiretap order
to go scanning for evidence to get a warrant?






http://dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/technology/story.html?s=n/reuters/98030
6/tech/stories/privacy_1.html
 Friday March 6 10:33 AM EST 

 House Passes Wireless Privacy Bill

 WASHINGTON (Reuters) - In a bid to protect privacy for cellphone or
digital calls, the House Thursday voted
 414-1 to make intercepting such phone conversations illegal. 

 The Wireless Privacy Enhancement Act makes clear that the act of
interception -- whether or not the call is later
 divulged or disseminated in any way -- is against the law. 

 It bans modification of scanners that are now on the market that can
easily pick up calls made on cell phones, and
 prevents a market for new scanners capable of intercepting digital
communications. 

 The bill, which the Senate has not yet acted on, increases penalties for
intercepting or divulging private
 communications, making them subject to a $2,000 fine and six months in
jail. Earlier laws had not treated such
 interceptions as serious offenses if they were not used for financial gain. 

 Although the bill had broad bipartisan support, it was a particular
favorite of Republicans, who were furious after a
 December 1996 cellphone conversation involving House Speaker Newt Gingrich
and fellow Republican leaders
 was taped by a Florida couple. House Republicans have alleged that
Washington Democratic Rep. Jim
 McDermott then leaked it. 

 McDermott -- who voted for the wireless privacy act -- has not publicly
commented on those allegations. 

 Ohio Republican Rep. John Boehner, who was using a cellphone in his wife's
car in that conversation with
 Gingrich, enthusiastically backed the bill. "Our message should be plain
and simple," he said. "If you violate
 someone's privacy, you are not creating idle mischief, you are breaking
the law and of the land and you will be
 brought to justice." 

 Roughly 50 million Americans use some kind of new mobile electronic
communications services, according to the
 bill's sponsors. 

 The sole vote against the bill came from Ron Paul, a Texas Republican. He
was not immediately available for
 comment. 
------------------------------------------------------------
      David Honig                   Orbit Technology
     honig@otc.net                  Intaanetto Jigyoubu

If you start now, the year 2038 problem might be tractable.







	















From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 03:19:11 -0800 (PST)
To: Ken Williams 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980306181151.0089ba10@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 01:11 PM 3/5/98 -0500, Ken Williams wrote:
>trying to set up "tripwires" in the various computer accounts that i have
>so i will know if a superuser or sysadmin has accessed them.  

In the general case, you can't do it, though there may be
special environments which let you do this but still let you
do useful work.

If somebody else controls the RAM, file systems, and communications
on a computer, and you don't, you have no way to tell what they've done.
For instance, anybody who can read raw blocks off the disk can
read your files without triggering any mechanisms you control.
Anybody who can read incoming packets off the LAN and WAN
can read your email before putting it in your mailbox.
If you convince people to encrypt mail before sending it to you,
and you encrypt any data you store on the system's disk blocks, 
using programs that aren't running on that computer,
reading your stuff may not be very interesting to the sysadm.
But if you run the decryption program on the system,
and the sysadm can read your keystrokes (either from a keyboard
or tty driver or telnet daemon), you're still naked.

There's been some theoretical work done into computing entirely
with encrypted data, and for a few specific mathematical problems
it's probably possible to get useful work done by an untrusted processor,
but usually the computations required for blinding and unblinding
are more work that the untrusted processor did for you anyway.

Short of that, the closest you'll find are secure operating systems
rated at Orange Book B2 or above (B3 and A, if any), which don't
have one all-powerful superuser.  In those systems, if the person
who has access to the raw disk (either physically or by asking the OS)
doesn't cheat, you have some guarantees about security, and in particular
you have some guarantees that nobody _but_ the semi-super-users
can crack the system in ways that give them access to your bits.
Unless all writes to the disk drive are encrypted, anybody who's got
unsupervised physical access to the disk is a semi-super-user, 
because they can steal the disk and plug it into their own machine,
where they're as super a user as they want to be.

If you're concerned about the machine being physically compromised,
you could set up an application that's always sending keepalives
across the net to your off-site monitoring location, but that's
pretty annoying, leads to lots of false alarms, may still be crackable
(though cracking may interrupt the system briefly, which is the win),
and is overall not very practical.  But it might let you know
that the disk drive has been stolen.
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 96866514@mci.net
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 21:37:49 -0800 (PST)
To: Members@aol.com
Subject: Expose your Website or Business To Millions With Stealth !!!!
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Dave Emery 
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 20:09:59 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: RE: Crypto as contraband
Message-ID: <19980306231001.53809@die.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Subject: Re: [LEGAL] Crypto as Contraband?
Reply-To: die@die.com
References: 
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
X-Mailer: Mutt 0.85
In-Reply-To: ; from Tim May on Fri, Mar 06, 1998 at 06:20:39PM -0800

On Fri, Mar 06, 1998 at 06:20:39PM -0800, Tim May wrote:
> 
> (Even with guns, in the U.S., there have historically been
> "grandfatherings" of existing guns. Not always, as with certain machine
> guns. And not with gold, which was declared contraband by the Reichsfuhrer
> in 1933.)
> 
> Could possession of PGP be still legal, but _use_ declared illegal?
> 
> (Not addressing the First Amendment issues, which are even stronger, but
> just the issue of retroactive contrabanding of something which was acquired
> legally, and by hundreds of thousands of law-abiding citizens.)
> 

	The House has just done this yesterday as mentioned in several
items posted to this very list:


	From HR2369, the Wireless Communications Privacy Enchancement Act
of 1998, passed by the House 414 to 1....



 "(4) Any person who manufactures, assembles, modifies, imports, exports,
 sells, or distributes any electronic, mechanical, or other device or
 equipment, knowing or having reason to know that the device or equipment ..."

 .... clause concerning satellite  piracy gear omited .....

 " , or is intended for any receipt, interception, divulgence, publication, or
 utilization of any communication in violation of subsection (a), shall
 be fined not more than $500,000 for each violation, or imprisoned for
 not more than 5 years for each violation, or both. For purposes of all
 penalties and remedies established for violations of this paragraph, the
 prohibited activity established herein as it applies to each such device
 shall be deemed a separate violation."

Subsection a: 

 " ....... No person not being authorized by the sender shall
 intentionally intercept any radio communication *or* divulge or publish
 the existence, contents, substance, purport, effect, or meaning of such
 intercepted communication to any person..........." 

	[note that *and* was changed by this bill to *or*, making interception
itself criminal]

	The only exception being :

 "Nothing in this subsection prohibits an interception or disclosure of a
  communication as authorized by chapter 119 of title 18, United States
  Code." 
     	  [which covers broadcast, ham, marine, aviation. governmental,
and communications readily accessible to the general public, whatever
that means]


	While this doesn't exactly retroactively ban *possession* of
radio gear capable of intercepting banned radio communications, it
provides extremely stiff felony level penalties for manufacturing,
assembling, modifying, importing, exporting, selling, or distributing
any radio receiving gear that might be construed to be intended for
receipt or interception of any radio communications not on the allowed
list.  And these penalties apply to each individual sale.

	Thus selling an old scanner at a Saturday morning hamfest to a
stranger for cash - a scanner legally purchased from Radio Shack in the
era  before cell phone frequencies were outlawed on scanners -  could
conceivably result in a $500,000 fine and a five year jail term.  And
Lord knows what horrible penalties could be assessed against innocent
people selling the sort of oddball specialized communications gear and
test equipment that are the stock in trade of many of the more
interesting ham fests and swapmeets [MIT's monthly fleas for example].

	Perhaps such informal personal sales will never be prosecuted,
but most sales of gear at hamfests and the like are anonymous cash
transactions between total strangers with every possiblity that the guy a
table over with the video camera is filming your sale for evidence.

	And for those who like to hack, tinkering quietly in their
basements with communications monitoring and decoding software and
hardware, manufacture and assembly have been defined in other federal
cases to include merely writing software for one's own use. Surely this
would apply to creating cryptanalysis software for any form of radio
communications at all, since it is not legal to intercept any radio
communications that are "scrambled or encrypted".  And there is no
exception made for research and development or academic purposes.

	So yes, they have done at least as bad a thing to people who
merely want to tinker with their radios and occasionally explore what is
out there in the ether by passively and in private receiving radio
signals as they have to gun owners, who at least possess a weapon
capable of doing some serious harm.  And there is not a single sentance
in the legislation providing any kind of encouragement for the use of
cryptography to protect the privacy of openly broadcast signals
receivable for miles around, let alone mandating it.

-- 
	Dave Emery N1PRE,  die@die.com  DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass. 
PGP fingerprint = 2047/4D7B08D1 DE 6E E1 CC 1F 1D 96 E2  5D 27 BD B0 24 88 C3 18





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 55459456@msn.com
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 03:52:03 -0800 (PST)
To: Members@aol.com
Subject: Advertise Your Business To MIllions With Direct Email Marketing !!!
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Bulk Email Programs
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SEND BULK EMAIL AT THE RATE OF 200,000/HOUR ( Retail $399.00 )

TURBO EMAIL LIST MANAGER
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GEO SNAKE
COLLECTS TARGETED EMAIL ADDRESSES BASED ON CITY/STATE
(Retail $199.00)

NEWS SLEUTH
COLLECTS TARGETED EMAIL ADDRESSES FROM NEWSGROUP POSTS 
(Retail $295.00 )


EMAIL PRO
EMAIL ADDRESS LIST MANAGER ( Retail $195.00 )


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TO ORDER PLEASE CALL (213)757-9032 FOR COMPLETE ORDERING DETAILS.epartment at (213) 757-9032 For orders for next day delivery please add $15.00 to your order and priority mail please add $3.00 to your order.

If you are interested in becomming a vendor for our software please email us at Support26@juno.com for complete details.


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Subject: #1 Advertise Your Business To Millions By Email With R.A.F)                                                       


                           
  



                                           






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Subject: #1 Advertise Your Business To Millions By Email With R.A.F)










From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: datasystem@mailcity.com
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 03:28:49 -0800 (PST)
To: Entrepreneur@cygnus.com
Subject: Free Email Software!
Message-ID: <199803071128.DAA26280@cygint.cygnus.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
                         Advertising  Secrets  Exposed !
Are you having a difficult time trying to promote your business on the Internet?
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Well, if you'd like to know something that you could use with your present
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And for the serious Internet Marketer, 25 million plus!! Our company has one of
the largests databases on the Internet with over 25 million Email Addresses,
these are split up in many different categories, and rotated frequently, giving
you new addresses to choose from each time. This service allows you to access
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for only $195. No need to ever gather or purchase Email addresses again!!
But because of our special internet promotion for the month of Mar20/98
you can purchase our E-Mail software program including 25 Million E-Mail
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400,000 Addresses $49.95 Includes shipping$handling and Freedom Software.

25Million Addresses$95 From database Includes S&H and Freedom Software.
And full time tech support, by telephone, for all orders received by Mar20/98

Freedom Software Only. Send $10. To cover S&H. IBM 3.5 Floppy disk.

Bonus: Orders received before, Mar20/98 will receive another Software program
Free, called "CHECKER" that allows you to receive checks by Fax, Email, and Phone.
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Also "FREE Lifetime 5 Page Commercial Web Site with Free Autoresponder and lifetime
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Send Order Form Along With Payment: To
   
                                            REV TECH MARKETING
                                              2172 Kanoy ave
                                        Thomasville N.C 27360-8733
                                                   U.S.A.
                                                
            Mail End.                                           


                                     
      






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: mgraffam@mhv.net
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 01:41:05 -0800 (PST)
To: Dave Emery 
Subject: RE: Crypto as contraband
In-Reply-To: <19980306231001.53809@die.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On Fri, 6 Mar 1998, Dave Emery wrote:
> 	So yes, they have done at least as bad a thing to people who
> merely want to tinker with their radios and occasionally explore what is
> out there in the ether by passively and in private receiving radio
> signals as they have to gun owners, who at least possess a weapon
> capable of doing some serious harm.  And there is not a single sentance
> in the legislation providing any kind of encouragement for the use of
> cryptography to protect the privacy of openly broadcast signals
> receivable for miles around, let alone mandating it.

Hmm.. the wording of the bill uses the word "communication" .. I wonder
just what this is supposed to mean. Any ideas on what this means? Would
this be deliberate transmission of a signal, or would EMR monitoring
be covered by this too.

Michael J. Graffam (mgraffam@mhv.net)
http://www.mhv.net/~mgraffam -- Philosophy, Religion, Computers, Crypto, etc
"..subordination of one sex to the other is wrong in itself, and now
one of the chief hindrances to human improvement.." John Stuart Mill
"The Subjection of Women"

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Version: PGPfreeware 5.0i for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 07:22:40 -0800 (PST)
To: David Honig 
Subject: Re:
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980306121618.007b7a10@otc.net>
Message-ID: <199803071522.KAA11429@users.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In <3.0.5.32.19980306121618.007b7a10@otc.net>, on 03/06/98 
   at 12:16 PM, David Honig  said:

>Politicians still think they're relevant...

>Given that this bill passed 414-1, it'll likely be US law soon.

>Does this mean that law enforcement will now need a judicial wiretap
>order to go scanning for evidence to get a warrant?

Don't you know that an exemption clause for the FED's is standard trailer
on all Bill's passed by congress.

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/esecure.html                        
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: OS/2: Not just another pretty program loader!

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Version: 2.6.3a-sha1
Charset: cp850
Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000

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Pa5zeMvlDeBaGbbdtmBP+3adMuBpfghke9fysFwX8oJIUsRpQ42AZGum8sE8Ncpy
LHCfCzCdZTs=
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem 
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 13:29:34 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: Returned mail: Cannot send message within 5 days
Message-ID: <199803072008.PAA26003@chemistry.mps.ohio-state.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

The original message was received at Mon, 2 Mar 1998 14:14:28 -0500 (EST)
from ts35-10.homenet.ohio-state.edu [140.254.114.193]

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----


   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
451 ... rmjent.com: Name server timeout
Message could not be delivered for 5 days
Message will be deleted from queue


Reporting-MTA: dns; chemistry.mps.ohio-state.edu
Arrival-Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 14:14:28 -0500 (EST)

Final-Recipient: RFC822; Remove@rmjent.com
Action: failed
Status: 4.4.7
Last-Attempt-Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 15:08:01 -0500 (EST)


To: Remove@rmjent.com
From: cypherpunks@toad.com
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 1980 01:47:53 -0500
Reply-To: cypherpunks@toad.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nuapuosao29@iddqd.org
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 15:39:17 -0800 (PST)
To: nuapuosao29@iddqd.org
Subject: Bulk Email For Profit !!
Message-ID: <199803072076CAA24906@post.bistek.net.tr>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


If you would like to be removed from our
list(s), hit reply and type remove in the
subject of your letter.


*********************************************************

        
            MAIL THOUSANDS OF EMAIL MESSAGES
              PER HOUR - NO KIDDING !!

          SEND YOUR EMAIL MESSAGES OUT, AT
         1,000's MESSAGES / HOUR (28.8K modem)

           YES, 1,000's  Of Messages An Hour

******************************************************

	68+  MILLION  EMAIL  ADDRESSES

           ******** $100.00 *******

******************************************************

  YOU'LL RECEIVE 2 HIGH-SPEED EMAIL SOFTWARE PROGRAMS

Introducing...."FLOODGATE BULK EMAIL LOADER" 
        AND...."GOLDRUSH STEALTH MASS MAILER"

This is the same software that all bulk emailing services use!

********************************************************
  
	TO COMPLIMENT OUR PACKAGE............
WE NOW MAKE AVAILABLE...........A BULK FRIENDLY ISP !!!
	
	See Our Order Form Below For Details

*********************************************************

	GET A "BULK FRIENDLY" WEB HOST ACCOUNT
		FROM US FOR ONLY

		$45.00 PER MONTH*

	*($100 one-time setup fee additional)

*********************************************************

Floodgate Bulk Email Loader Version 6.0 AND
Goldrush Stealth Mass Mailer Version 3.215
for Windows 95 and Windows 3.1 now Supports 17 
(really more with the free form filter) File Formats

---------------------------------------------------------


SEND OUT 20,000+ MARKETING LETTERS EVERY SINGLE DAY!

Or...every few days. In fact, when I send out just a few thousand marketing letters each day, it doesn't take long before I'm completely swamped with email inquiries and phone calls. This is very easy to do. And each one of these bulk mailings costs me nothing. I can teach you how to do this and provide you with the tools you'll need.

If you've got a good marketing letter, I'll show you how to open the floodgates. You'll be deluged with inquiries, leads, and real sales, using nothing but email alone.

Writing a good marketing letter is not easy. I often have to rewrite my marketing letters a half dozen times before I get the results I'm looking for. But once you have a good letter, as you probably know, you can use the same letter over and over again, predictably and consistently, closing sales, week after week, month after month.

It takes me about one hour to send my marketing letter to THOUSANDS of fresh email addresses. I can do this, thanks to a Windows program I use. It's called Floodgate and Goldrush Stealth Mass Mailer. It's a bulk email loader and an email software program. If you're interested in electronic marketing, you should know about these programs.

PROGRAM #1: FLOODGATE FOR WINDOWS

The Floodgate Bulk Email Loader imports simple text files that anyone can download from CompuServe, Prodigy, Delphi Genie, or the Internet. These text files contain classified ads, forum messages, or data from the member directory. Each of these files is filled with email addresses.

Floodgate is designed to read these files and strip out the email addresses. It then sorts the addresses, removes any duplicates, and formats them into an output file, with 10, 20 or 30 addresses per line. This is all done in one simple step. Just point and click.

You'll need either a Windows based Internet account or an America On-line account to send out your marketing letters. Neither AOL nor the Internet charges to send email. Send your letter to 1,000 people or 10,000 people -- the cost is always the same. NOTHING!

NEW! PREPARE A MAILING OF 50,000+ 
IN LESS THAN A 1/2 HOUR

If you open an Internet account, you can send each letter to 20,000+ people. The new Floodgate now directly writes distribution lists. Some people are always collecting new addresses, but if you publish a newsletter or adsheet, you'll be using the same addresses over and over again. That's real power! When using addresses you've previously collected, you can press a few buttons and prepare a mailing of 50,000+ in less than a half hour.

(To get a list of all the Internet access providers in your local calling area goto: http://thelist.com and click on your area code.)

The Floodgate Users Guide will teach you, step by step, how to download the right files, how to strip the addresses, and finally, how to cut and paste the formatted addresses into your marketing letter. Or, if you have an Internet account, how to create distribution lists. One you've done this a few times you won't even have to think. It's that simple!

FOR THE BRAVE & DARING: PUSHING TECHNOLOGY TO ITS LIMITS

As you may know, the practice of sending unsolicited email is usually frowned upon, and most service providers have rules against it. But, like jay-walking, there is little enforcement. It's not illegal. If someone tells you that it is, ask them to provide the citation (and don't let them give you some nonsense about faxes - that's not email). They can't do it because it's not there. Sometimes, when a lot of people complain, I get a warning letter. And that's about it.

About 1 in 200 will write back and tell me, "take me off the list", which I can do, thanks to Floodgates Remove List feature. Many people reply back thanking me for sending them my informative letter. That's always nice. Most people though, just reply and say, "send me more info." In this way, it usually takes me two or three letters to close a sale.

The Floodgate Users Guide will provide you with proven formats for writing a successful marketing letter. You'll test and rewrite, test and rewrite. Then, once you've got it, just push a few buttons, and open the floodgates!!!

THE FLOODGATE BULK EMAIL LOADER CURRENTLY SUPPORTS 17+ FILE FORMATS

1. CompuServe Classifieds: Send your marketing letter to everyone who is running a classified ad. I'll teach you how to download all the classifieds from any single ad category. This is one of the most responsive list of buyers. They check their email every day and they're already in business.

2. America On-line Classifieds: Download 1,000 addresses in 15 minutes. These are excellent lists for business to business sales.

3. CompuServe Forums: You can join a forum and download hundreds of forum messages in a matter of minutes.

4. America On-line Forums: Choose from dozens of forums. All good targeted lists.

5. Prodigy Forums: Prodigy allows you to easily export any group of forum messages. More targeted lists.

6. Internet Newsgroups: These are all targeted lists. You'll be able to send your marketing letter to everyone who posts a message in any newsgroup. Easily collect 1,000's of addresses per hour.

7. America On-line Member Directory: Most member directories only allow you to search by city and state. With AOL, you can search by business type, hobbies, computer type, etc. This is the gem of all
member directories. Build huge targeted lists.

8. CompuServe Member Directory: This is a major resource. If you're willing to target your mailing to a single city, you can collect about 1,000 email addresses an hour.

9. Delphi Member Directory: The Delphi member directory allows you to search for people based on key words. These are good targeted mailing lists. A single search can easily generate 5,000 addresses.

10. Genie Member Directory: Similar to the CompuServe member directory, only you can download names much quicker. You can easily pull hundreds of thousands of addresses out of each of these member directories.

11. CompuServe File Cabinet: If you run classified ads, and save the responses in the CIM file cabinet, you'll be able to easily reuse these addresses. You can send your marketing letter to everyone in any single folder. Build master lists and clean UP your hard drive.

12. Free Form: If you have a text file with email addresses that floodgate does not support, chances are the Free Form filter will be just what you need. Just enter a key word to search for.

13. CompuServe Form Profiles (Forum Membership Directories): Easy to build targeted lists here. Each search can easily bring you 500+
addresses.

14. Genie Profiles: If you're building targeted lists, you'll get a lot of addresses very quickly from Genie.

15. Plain Addresses: Read Floodgate Master Files back into Floodgate to merge files and do selective mailings. Also useful for the management of email address lists that you might purchase.

Floodgate also has filters to allow you to include or exclude any groups of addresses in your final distribution lists. For example, you could include only email addresses that ended in .com or exclude all with .gov. You could exclude all noc, root, and other addresses that almost guarantee a negative response. These filters are fully configurable and can be used together.

BUILD REUSABLE MASTER FILES

Floodgate maintains Master Files for each of your marketing letters. If you download from the same place on a regular basis, you only want to send your letter to the new people. Floodgate will compare the new addresses with those in the Master File, and prepare a mailing list of only new people. The new addresses are, of course, then added to the Master File. With each new mailing your Master File grows and grows.

You may create as many Master Lists as you need. When you start a new marketing campaign, you'll want to send your new letter to everyone on your Master List. If you write a newsletter, each time you send your newsletter, you'll send it to everyone on a Master List.

THE REMOVE LIST

Very often, people will reply and tell you to take them off your mailing list. Place these addresses in the REMOVE.MST file and they will never receive another letter from you again. In this way, you will be operating your business with the most professionalism
possible.

DON'T BE FOOLED

We have some new competitors that have tried to copy Floodgate. The following list describes why Floodgate is BETTER.......

**Floodgate is a mature, bug free product. Not an initial release.
**Floodgate comes with over 100 pages of step by step       documentation.
**Floodgate is the only one offering a money back guarantee.
**Floodgate has more testimonials. 
**Filter for filter, Floodgate offers more capabilities, way more. 
**Floodgate does everything all the others *combined* claim. 
**Floodgate is by far the easiest to use.
**There is NO *cutting and pasting* with Floodgate. 
**We have by far, the BEST technical support.

SOME QUICK MATH

Floodgate can pay for itself in a few days. It can also cut your advertising costs down to almost nothing. Think of what the competition will do when they get their Floodgate program. Don't be left in the dust - there are 75 million people out there, just a few keystrokes away. Let's do the math:

- Email 50,000 sales letters (takes about 1-2 hours)
- Let's say your product will bring you $5 profit per   sale.
- Let's also say you only get a 1% response(occasionally higher).

* That's 500 orders x $5 = $2,500 profit !! Now imagine what 500,000 letters would do for your business !!

WHAT CAN I MARKET ON-LINE?

You can market anything on-line using direct email, that can be marketed using conventional postal direct mail marketing. The possibilities are practically endless. If it sells off-line, you can sell it on-line.

EASY TO INSTALL AND EASY TO LEARN

The Floodgate Email Loader requires Windows. The SUPPLIED MANUAL tells you where to go, what to do, and how to do it. All you need are basic computer skills that can be learned with a little practice or help from our computer savvy technicians.

PROGRAM #2: GOLDRUSH STEALTH MASS MAILER

Do not get this program confused with other slow speed programs that call themselves "STEALTH". This program is the only one in the world that can send email out at HIGH SPEEDS with one single connection to the internet. 

This is NEW, Cutting Edge Email Technology. First Of It's Kind.. The Most Powerful BULK EMAIL SENDER In The World.. NOTHING CAN EVEN COME CLOSE! 

Thanks to our top programmer's, this technology is NOW available and we are the only place you can get it from! 

     *ONLY "ONE" DIAL-UP OR ISDN CONNECTION NEEDED. 
     *NO MORE TERMINATED CONNECTIONS. 
     *NO MORE WAITING TO SEND LARGE AMOUNTS OF EMAIL. 
     *IMMEDIATE RESPONSE TO YOUR MASS MAILINGS. 
     *YOU WILL HAVE ALL THE CONTROL AND CONFIDENCE OF 
       SENDING EMAIL THE WAY IT SHOULD BE SENT... IN HUGE AMOUNTS! 
     *SEND YOUR WHOLE LIST IN ONE DAY, WHETHER IT BE 500,000 
       OR 5 MILLION - AND JUST SIT BACK AND WAIT FOR YOUR 
       ORDERS TO POUR IN. 
     *NO MORE DOWNLOADING UNDELIVERABLE NAMES.

Bulk Emailer's Dream Come True!!! - >>>GOLDRUSH STEALTH MASS MAILER<<< 

Connect to multiple mail servers (20 or more), make multiple connections to a single server or any combination of the two ( All Simultaneously ) with one single dial-up connection. 

SEND MULTIPLE SIMULTANEOUS MAILINGS... 

View complete details about your mailings. Shows each server your connected to, the status of that connection, how many messages are going out through that connection, etc...

We show you ALL the tricks all the mass e-mailers don't want you to know... 

Here are just a few features the GOLDRUSH STEALTH MASS MAILER offers to you... 

     *Forge the Header - Message ID - ISP's will Spin their wheels. 
     *Add's a Bogus Authenticated Sender to the Header. 
     *Add's a complete bogus Received From / Received By line with 
      real time / date stamp and recipient to the Header. 
     *Does NOT require a valid POP Account be entered in order to 
      send your mailings. 
     *Easy to use and operate 
     *Plus much more! 

All this, at speeds of up to 1,000's messages/hour
(28.8k modem). 

SPECIAL INTRODUCTORY PRICE... 

NOW YOU CAN HAVE BOTH THE FLOODGATE AND 
GOLDRUSH STEALTH MASS MAILER FOR JUST $499.00! 

UPDATE ... SAVE $149.05 AND ORDER NOW, BE ONE OF THE FIRST 100 ORDERS! 

Step up to the plate and play with the big boys TODAY and receive the COMPLETE 2 SOFTWARE PACKAGE for the unbelievably low price of ONLY $349.95! 

(Other bulk email software has sold for as much as $2,500 and can't even come close to the cutting edge technology of EASE, ACCURACY AND SPEED ... SPEED ... SPEED!) 

Try the Goldrush Stealth Mass Mailer & Floodgate Bulk Email Loader for 10 days FREE. 
And receive UNLIMITED technical support for 30 days.

**************************************************************

		68+ MILLION  EMAIL ADDRESSES
	MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF EMAIL ADDRESSES

CD with 68+ MILLION email addresses separated by domain name.
All addresses are simple text format one per line. Addresses
from the following domains: MCI, Delphi, Compuserve, Internet, .com & .net,  MILLIONS OF THEM! Not available on diskette or download.

===> WANT THE 68+ MILLION ADDRESSES FOR $100.00? <===

Just buy our Floodgate / Goldrush software package (with ALL
the bonuses INCLUDED), and the MILLIONS of addresses are yours
for just $100.00 additional.

These addresses will be delivered to you in simple text files
that any bulk emailing program can use, on CD Rom. With this CD,
YOU CAN BEGIN MAKING MONEY IMMEDIATELY!!!

***************************************************************

***SPECIAL BONUS #1:*** STOP Losing ISP Dial Up Accounts! 

If you order The FLOODGATE / GOLDRUSH software within the next 5 days - When you receive your program, you will also receive: 

*Complete instructions on "how to keep your dial up account from  showing up in the header", plus everything you will need to get started doing this. 

IMPORTANT NOTICE! We will initially only be offering 100 copies of the program for sale, First come / First Served basis only. We are doing this because of the extreme power that these programs offer.


***SPECIAL BONUS #2*** 

When you receive your two programs, you will also receive:
OVER 250 REPRINT AND RESELL RIGHTS REPORTS YOU CAN START TO MARKET
AND MAKE MONEY IMMEDIATELY!!! 

     These HOT sellers include: 
     1) How to Get a Top Rating in the Search Engines 
     2) 70 Money Making Reports 
     3) 75 MONEY MAKING PLANS & TRADE SECRETS and MUCH MUCH MORE!!!  
         ($200 RETAIL VALUE - FREE!!!) 


***SPECIAL BONUS #3***

With your two software programs, you will also receive our NEW "Address Grabber" utility program that enables you to grab 100's of THOUSANDS of email addresses from
newsgroups in minutes ($100 RETAIL VALUE - FREE).


***SPECIAL BONUS #4***

RECEIVE CHECKS BY EMAIL, PHONE OR FAX MACHINE. With this software
program, you can receive payment for your product or service INSTANTLY!!
There is no more waiting for your customers chec to arrive. This
software will no doubt, add to your sales, for customers who
don't have credit cards, as well as the impulse buyers.

With this software, you can print up your payments as soon as your
customer gives you his/her checking information. You will then
add the information given, to the proper blank check spaces, then
just print and go to the bank!!

         ***************************************************

To get your FREE demo and "test drive" our state-of-the-art software, 
email us your request by hitting reply and typing "flood"
in the subject of your letter.

         ****************************************************

              HURRY ... RESERVE YOURS TODAY! 

So, if you are interested in taking advantage of the most powerful bulk 
email software in the world and start making money hand over fist.....

Print out the EZ ORDER form below and FAX or MAIL it to our office.

If you have any questions don't hesitate to call us at: 1-954-784-0312

SYSTEM REQUIREMENTS

386 or larger
Windows 95 OR Windows 3.1 with 8 meg ram
Extra 5 MB hard drive space

Floodgate & Goldrush can be run on a fast Mac with 24 MB RAM and SoftWindows.

NOTES FROM SATISFIED USERS

"It is everything you said it was. Within one week of my first mailing, I received a record number of orders. All you need to print money is a decent sales letter. Thanks." Randy albertson, Wolverine Capital.

"After using Floodgate and your utility program all day today, let me say these are as two of the finest programs I have ever bought in my 52 years! Your support has been superb. Thank You!" Vernon Hale, Prime Data Systems

"My first day and I just used Floodgate and Pegasus to send 1,469 sales letters. So far I've got about 25 positive responses. It works GREAT!!! Thanks." Donald Prior

"Floodgate is awesome!. I recently started a new business on-line. I stripped the addresses of the AOL & CIS classifieds. I sent out 3,497 email letters and got over 400 people to join my company in 5 days! Needless to say, it pays for itself." David Sheeham, OMPD

"I was able to use Floodgate to extract the names from the Internet news groups. It works perfectly. Needless to say, I am very excited about the use of this new technology." Mark Eberra, Inside Connections

"This is a great piece of software and an invaluable marketing tool." Joe Kuhn, The Millennium Group

"I just thought you'd like to know that this program is fantastic. After loading it on my system, I wanted to test it out. In my first hour of using this, I collected 6,092 email addresses!" Richard Kahn, LD Communications

"I just love the Floodgate program. It saves me hours and hours of time. This is the beginning of a wonderful FUN time marketing on-line. Thank you so much for writing this program." Beth O'Neill, Eudora, KS

"Your software is brilliant, and from the technical support I've received, I can see you have a genuine love and respect of people...Floodgate is a divine package. Wish I had found it sooner." Tom Sanders, Peoria, IL

"I really like the way the Floodgate software package works. It is very easy to use, and really does the trick. It has already saved me an incredible amount of time and energy." John Berning, Jr., Fairfield, NJ

"It's going great with FLOODGATE! I like using Delphi. I just collected 50,000+ addresses within 20 minutes on-line." Richard Kahn, R&B Associates

-------------------------------------------------
E-Z ORDER FORM:

Please print out this order form and fill in the blanks......
Please send order form and check or money order, payable to:

Dave Mustachi
P.O. Box 772261
Coral Springs, FL 33077-2261
(954) 784-0312


______Yes! I would like to try your cutting-edge software so that I can advertise my business to thousands of people on-line whenever I like! I understand that I have 10 days to trial the software. If I am not fully delighted, I will cheerfully be refunded the purchase price, no questions asked! Please rush me the FLOODGATE and GOLDRUSH package now!

______I am ordering within 72 hours! That qualifies me to receive the FLOODGATE and GOLDRUSH package at a substantial discount! I am ordering BOTH software packages for only $349.95. (Save $150 off the retail price....Software has sold for as much as $2,499.95)

______I am ordering within 72 hours! That qualifies me to receive UNLIMITED technical support for 30 days.

______I want to receive the package OVERNIGHT. I'm including $18.00 for shipping charges.

______I want to receive the package 2nd DAY. I'm including $10.00 (includes insurance & return receipt) for shipping charges.

______I'm ordering Floodgate / Goldrush software and want to order the 68+ MILLION email addresses as well. My additional cost is $100.00 enclosed.

______I'm NOT ordering your Floodgate / Goldrush software, but I
want to order your 40 MILLION email addresses on CD. Enclosed is $249.00.

______I'm ordering your "BULK FRIENDLY" web hosting offer. Add
$145 to this order ($45 PLUS $100 one time setup fee)

I authorize Dave Mustachi to draft $45.00 per month from my
checking account from the enclosed check OR charge my credit
card account below each month for the service of hosting my
BULK FRIENDLY web page that I can use in my BULK EMAIL
marketing letter(s).


Signature:____________________________________________

	****************************************************
If you're interested in our "BULK FRIENDLY ISP", please call:

Russell Rockefeller 1-905-714-7510 for details.

	****************************************************

(CHECKS: ALLOW 1 WEEK FOR BANK CLEARANCE)


YOUR NAME_________________________________________________

COMPANY NAME_________________________________________________

YOUR POSITION_____________________________________________

STREET ADDRESS______________________________________________

CITY, STATE, ZIP____________________________________________

PHONE NUMBERS_______________________________________________

FAX NUMBERS_________________________________________________

EMAIL ADDRESSES_____________________________________________

************************************************************

We accept Checks, Money Orders, MasterCard, Visa,
American Express. You can either mail your order to 
us OR fax your order to:

			954-572-5837
************************************************************

Today's date:_____________
 
Visa____MasterCard____American Express____Discover_______
 
Card #:____________________________________________________
 
Expiration date:___________________________________________
 
Name on card:______________________________________________
 
Billing address:___________________________________________
 
Amount to be charged: $________________


Signature:___________________________________________


I agree to pay Dave Mustachi an additional $29 fee if my check is returned for insufficient or uncollectable funds.

SIGNATURE: X________________________________DATE:_______________

Please send all order forms and check or money order to payable to:

Dave Mustachi
P.O. Box 772261
Coral Springs, FL 33077
(954) 784-0312


***************************************************

OR:

PLEASE PASTE YOUR CHECK HERE

(If you fax a check, there is no need for you to send the original check by mail. We will draft up a new check, with the exact information from your original check that you faxed to us)

Please fax the above order
form and check to: 1-954-





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: rdshea@12291.com
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 05:02:51 -0800 (PST)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: This is your NEW HOUSE,  or BOAT, or ROLLS ROYCE
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



This is your NEW HOUSE,  or BOAT, or ROLLS ROYCE
THIS CAN BE YOUR BEST OF DREAMS......TRY IT!



THIS MAY BE THE MOST SIGNIFICANT LETTER 
                                      YOU WILL RECEIVE THIS YEAR!!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
***Please,... Follow The Instructions Of This  Letter Very Carefully.       Immediately Make  A Copy,  And Read It Twice.*** 

Subject: It's Only a Game, But You Win Big Money!

Greetings, 

Hopefully my name is still on the list below. I am a retired
attorney, and about two years ago a man came to me with a letter. The
letter he brought me is basically the same as the letter in front of you
now. He asked me to verify the fact that this letter was legal. I told him
that I would review it and get back to him. When I first read the letter I
thought it was some off-the-wall idea to make money. A week later I
met again with my client to discuss the issue. I told him that the letter 
originally brought to me was not 100% legal. My client asked me to
alter the letter to make it 100% legal. I advised him to make a small 
change in the letter and it would be alright.
I was curious about the letter, so he told me how it works. I thought it
was a long shot, so I decided against participating. Before my client
left, I asked him to keep me updated as to his results. About two 
months later he called to tell me that he had received over $800,000
in cash! I didn't believe him so he asked me to try the plan and see 
for myself. I thought about it for a couple of days and decided that 
there was not much to lose. I followed the instructions exactly and 
mailed out 200 letters. Sure enough, the money started coming! 
It came slowly at first, but after three weeks I was getting more 
than I could open in a day. After about three months the money 
stopped coming. I kept a precise record of my earnings and at the
end it totaled $868,439.00.

I was earning a good living as a lawyer, but as anyone in the legal
profession will tell you, there is a lot of stress that comes with the
job. I told myself if things worked out I would retire from practice and
play golf. I decided to try the letter again, but this time I sent 500
letters out. Well, three months later I had totaled $2,344,178.00!!! I
just couldn't believe it. I met my old client for lunch to find out how
this exactly works. He told me that there were a few similar letters 
going around. What made this one different is the fact that there are
six names on the letter, not five like most others. That fact alone
resulted in far more returns. The other factor was the advice I gave
him in making sure the whole thing was perfectly legal, since no one
wants to risk doing anything illegal.
                               
I bet by now you are curious about what little change I told him to
make. Well, if you send a letter like this out, to be legal, you must sell
something if you expect to receive a dollar. I told him that anyone
sending a dollar out must receive something in return. So when you 
send a dollar to each of the six names on the list, you must include a 
slip of paper saying, "Please put me on your mailing list" and include 
your name, mailing address, and email address. (Your phone # is optional).
This is the key to the program! The item you will receive for a dollar you 
send to the six names below, is this letter and the right to earn thousands. 
We will be working together to improve each others lives!

Follow the simple instructions below exactly, and in less than three
months you will receive over $800,000.00 GUARANTEED!!!!!!

A)  Immediately send $1.00 to each of the six people on the list below.
Wrap the dollar in a note (type written or handwritten) saying
"Please add me to your mailing list" and include your name, 
mailing address, and email address. Your phone number is optional:

1) Anthony Thomas  8150 East Hildale St.  Detroit, MI  48234
2) Claudia Stephan PO Box 1819 Carmichael, CA 95609
3) Anita Volsh PO Box 2408 Fair Oaks, CA 95628
4) Nadia Segun PO Box 1357 Rancho Cordova, CA 95741
5) Lidia Zoring  3500 Data dr. # 147 Rancho Cordova, CA 95670
6) James Thomas 11329 S Peoria St. Chicago, IL 60643


B) Remove the name next to #1 on the list and move the rest of the names
up one position. Then place your name in the #6 spot. This is best done by
typing a new list and taping or gluing it over the old one. Or by saving
this to a text file and editing it yourself and saving the new edited 
copy.

C) When you have completed the above instructions, you have an option
of mailing your new letter out in two ways: 1) Through the U.S. Postal
Service or 2) through e-mail. This letter has been proven perfectly legal
for both ways as long as you follow the above instructions, because you're
purchasing membership in an exclusive mailing list . To mail this 
out over the internet, you can browse through areas and find people to 
send  this to all the time. All you have to do is cut and paste email addresses 
wherever you are on the Internet. Remember, it doesn't cost anything to 
mail on the Internet. Or you can get a Mass Mail Network to mail it
out in large volumes for you.                         

2


One that we recommend is:
Cyber Mail ($15 / 200 names) ($25 / 500 names) ($50 / 1,500 names) 
16500 North Park Dr.
Suite 413
Southfield, MI  48075
(248) 557-7778

Either way will bring big payoffs. If you 
are going to use the traditional U.S. Postal Service to do this program, 
you will want to order a minimum 200 names from a mailing list company. 
Two that have been most effective for these lists are: 

***Be sure to ask for "Opportunity Seekers" and request a list less
      than 30 days old***

S.E. Ring Mailing List ($26 / 200 names)
P.O Box 15061
Ft. Lauderdale, FL 33318 (954) 742-9519

Advon Distributors ($28 / 200 names)
P.O. Box B-11
Shelly, ID 83274 (800) 992-3866

***Keep in mind- there is no limit to the amount of names you can send 
      out.  The more names you send, the more money you'll make.
      We strongly encourage you to mail this letter to family, friends and 
      relatives as well.*** 
     

D) When your mailing list arrives, place one label on a stamped
envelope and drop it in the mail box (Be sure to send out at least 200). 
Within 90 days, you will receive over $800,000. 

E)  Keep a copy of this letter and all the names you receive. Mail it out 
again in about 6 months. But mail it to the addresses you received with 
each dollar. It will work again, only much better.

THIS IS A SERVICE AND IS 100% LEGAL !
(Refer to title 18, Section 1302 & 1342 of the U.S. Postal and Lottery 
Laws)

3                                                           
                                                          

Assume for example you get a 7.5% return rate, which is very conservative.
My first attempt was about 9.5% and my second time was over 11%.

1) When you mail out 200 letters, 15 people will send you $1.00.
2) Those 15 mail out 200 letters, and 225 people will send you $1.00
3) Those 225 mail out 200 letters, and 3,375 people will send you $1.00
4) Those 3,375 mail out 200 letters, and 50,625 people will send you $1.00
5) Those 50,625 mail out 200 letters, and 759,375 people will send you $1.00 

At this point your name drops off the list,
but so far you have received $813,615.00!!!!!

It works every time, but how well depends on how many letters you send
out. In the example above, you mailed out 200 letters, if you mailed out 500
letters, you would have received $2,006,917!! Check the math yourself,
I want you to, but I guarantee it is correct! With this kind of return,
you've got to try it. Try it once and you will do it again!!!

Just make sure you send a dollar to each of the six names on the list with
a note to be added to their mailing list. Together we will all prosper!!!!

PS  You've read this far, so let me ask you one simple question:

Q.                      What do you have to lose??
A.                       Only $ 6.00 

What you can gain is an income, like the example in this letter.
Small Risk, Small Expense, HUGE Potential Return!!!
What do you have to loose?
I invite you to join our mailing list today!!!

Don't throw this away. Keep it, think about it, and in several months you will try it!


I looked at it for over two months and then I said "it's only $6" I have to be nuts not to try it.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Conlen 
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 06:03:16 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Telco Trafic
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Are their products designed to encrypt trafic across Frame Relay or
dedicated telco circuits?

					Groove on Dude
					Michael Conlen
					meconlen@intnet.com

The code was willing,
It considered your request,
But the chips were weak.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "David Honig" 
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 10:44:19 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: Schneier on SET
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



from Internet World, 2 Mar 98, "Reply to All" (reader feedback)


Credit card transactions over the Net are new, but
not overly different.

We know how to do credit card transactions where there
is no physical card: over the pohne.  And we know how to
establish a secure merchant-customer session: via SSL.
SET is a complicated, server-intensive protocol, and I have trouble
believing
 its possible to implement a two-inch-thick standard without security bugs.
 I'm not surprised merchants are so slow in acepting it.  Why bother?

[signed by Bruce Schneier]




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: MSDNFlash Editor 
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 11:28:08 -0800 (PST)
To: "'cypherpunks@toad.com>
Subject: MSDNFlash, Volume 2, Number 5, March 9, 1998
Message-ID: <899977F2DFA7D111B5A200805F3118C1020B7953@bulkengine.dns.microsoft.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


*** MSDN Flash ***

A Twice-Monthly Newsletter for the Microsoft Developer Community

Visit us today on the World Wide Web at:
http://www.microsoft.com/msdn/

In this issue:

PRODUCT AND TECHNOLOGY NEWS
*Free Developer Edition of Windows NT 4.0 Workstation
*Look Out for a Special MSDN Flash
*Watch Bob Muglia's Keynote Live from Spring Internet World
*SAP Delivers Free COM Connectivity to its Systems

RESOURCES
*Mastering Chapter for MSDN Online Members
*MSDN Online Chat: HelpDesk Sample Application
*MSDN Online Chat: VBA and Office Development
*New Download for MSDN Online Members
*March/April MSDN News Now Online
*Windows 98 Resource Kit
*Introducing TechNet ITHome

EVENTS
*Web TechEd - Australia
*XML Conference
*XML Xposed
*VBITS
*Windows CE Developer Conference
*Visual C++ Developer Conference
*Visual J++ Developer Conference
*Visual FoxPro Devcon 98
*Microsoft TechEd
*Developer Events - United States
*Developer Events - Europe

MSDN FLASH TIP OF THE WEEK
*Visual J++ Developer's Journal
=================================================
PRODUCT AND TECHNOLOGY NEWS
=================================================
FREE DEVELOPER EDITION OF WINDOWS NT 4.0 WORKSTATION.
For a limited time developers can get a free Developer Edition of
Windows NT Workstation 4.0 when they buy the Professional Editions of
Visual Basic, Visual C++ or Visual Studio.  If the Enterprise Edition of
these same products are purchased, developers can get a free Developer
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feature set with a development and testing license; the BackOffice
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visit
http://www.microsoft.com/developer/offer

LOOK OUT FOR A SPECIAL MSDN FLASH
Watch for a special MSDN Flash update later this week to fill you in on
an exciting product announcement.

WATCH BOB MUGLIA'S KEYNOTE LIVE FROM SPRING INTERNET WORLD
Bob Muglia, Microsoft Senior Vice President, will discuss effective
business applications on the Web at Spring Internet World, Los Angeles,
CA. Watch it live on the Site Builder Network at
http://www.microsoft.com/sbnmember/sbnlive/iworld-f.htm
Wednesday, March 11 at 5:45p.m. (Pacific Time). Visit this site early to
test your NetShow player and preferred bandwidth.

SAP DELIVERS FREE COM CONNECTIVITY TO ITS SYSTEMS
Download a free beta version of the SAP DCOM Component Connector at
http://www.sap.com/bfw/dcom.htm. The connector makes it possible to
integrate the rich business rules of SAP R/3 into your applications and
solutions using Microsoft's award-winning Visual Tools and Microsoft
COM.
=================================================
RESOURCES
=================================================
MASTERING CHAPTER FOR MSDN ONLINE MEMBERS
Gain the skills you need to build dynamic, data aware, client/server Web
sites. Check out this online training module on Using Microsoft
Transaction Server from "Mastering Web Site Development using Visual
InterDev" to start learning now. For more information visit
http://www.microsoft.com/msdn/training/mastering.htm

MSDN ONLINE CHAT: HELPDESK SAMPLE APPLICATION
Tuesday, March 10, 11a.m. - noon Pacific Time
Chat about building the HelpDesk Sample Application How did the MSDN
developers build the HelpDesk sample application? What went wrong? How
did they correct it? Ask them yourself in our MSDN Online chat. For more
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If you can't make it to the chat but have a question, submit it to
msdn@microsoft.com with "MSDN Chat" as the subject line. Then check back
on MSDN Online for the transcript a day or two after the chat for the
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MSDN ONLINE CHAT: OFFICE AND VBA DEVELOPMENT
Tuesday, March 17th, 11:00 am to noon Pacific Time Join Microsoft VBA
staffers for an on-line chat. You'll get a chance to pose your questions
about developing solutions with Access, Excel, Word, PowerPoint, or any
other VBA host application. Microsoft product managers, test engineers,
and software designers will be on line to provide answers and guidance,
so don't miss out. Visit
http://www.microsoft.com/msdn/newsgroups/chats.htm
for more information

NEW DOWNLOAD FOR MSDN ONLINE MEMBERS
Chili!ASP is an open, cross-platform web application environment that is
the functional equivalent of Microsoft's Active Server Pages (ASP).
Chili!ASP provides ASP functionality to Netscape, Lotus, IBM, and other
web servers on Windows NT and 95, and soon on UNIX as well. For more
information visit
http://www.microsoft.com/msdn/downloads/

MICROSOFT WINDOWS 98 BETA RESOURCE KIT 
Get a head start in evaluating Microsoft Windows 98 and reviewing the
architecture. The Microsoft Windows 98 Beta Resource Kit is the first
full technical overview. And it includes a time-limited evaluation copy
of the Beta 3 release of Windows 98. Quantities are limited. Not
available outside North America. For more information visit
http://mspress.microsoft.com/order/

MARCH/APRIL MSDN NEWS NOW ONLINE
The new issue of MSDN News is online, with articles on adding Dynamic
HTML to your VB apps, MFC for Windows CE, a new column by the esteemed
Dr. GUI and more. Visit
http://www.microsoft.com/msdn/news/devnews/

ANNOUNCING TECHNET ITHOME
If you're responsible for selecting, deploying or supporting technology
ITHome is for you. Get the latest details on new technologies,
strategies, and industry issues from leading sources, including
Microsoft, Network Computing, Information Week, New Riders Publishing,
SAMS Publishing, and more. For more information visit
http://www.microsoft.com/ithome/
=================================================
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=================================================
MICROSOFT WEB TECHED - AUSTRALIA
March 10, Sydney
March 12, Melbourne
Microsoft Web Tech Ed will be bringing you sessions on IIS 4.0, Site
Server 3.0, Electronic Commerce, Dynamic HTML, and Data Access.  Cost is
$250 for MSDN and SBN Level 2 & 3 Members, or $350 full conference fee.
To register
http://www.microsoft.com.au/australia/sitebuilder/webteched.asp

XML, THE CONFERENCE
March 23-27, Seattle, WA
See tools that support XML today and those planned for tomorrow. For
more information visit
http://www.gca.org/conf/xmlcon98/

XML XPOSED
If you are a Web developer or using the Web for business purposes,
you'll want to learn more about XML. For more information visit
http://Xmlu.com/

VBITS SAN FRANCISCO '98
March 23-27, San Francisco, CA
Hands-on training on topics ranging from multithreading applications and
servers, to leveraging component-based solutions to the Internet or
intranet. Visit
http://www.windx.com/vbits/
for more information

REGISTER NOW FOR THE WINDOWS CE DEVELOPERS CONFERENCE
April 6-8, San Jose, CA
In-depth technical sessions will teach you all you need to know about
the latest advances in Windows CE-based devices. Attendees will receive
a complimentary Palm PC. For more information or to register visit
http://www.microsoft.com/events/windowsce/

VISUAL INTERDEV 6.0 PRE-RELEASE SEMINAR
Microsoft and 32X announce a 12-city US seminar tour for developers on
the Microsoft Visual InterDev 6.0 Web development system. Seminars begin
April 13, and all attendees will receive a beta version of Visual
InterDev 6.0.  For more information see
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MICROSOFT VISUAL C++ DEVELOPER CONFERENCE IV
April 15-17, Boston, MA
Come learn about COM and DCOM, MFC and ATL, MTS, hardcore Visual C++,
and more. For more information visit
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VISUAL J++ DEVELOPER CONFERENCE
April 27 - 30, Los Angeles, CA
A technical forum on advanced Java development using Microsoft Visual
J++, this event features four tracks and 48 sessions. For more
information visit
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VISUAL FOXPRO DEVCON 98
May 17-20, Orlando, FL
Come learn all about Tahoe, the next version of Microsoft Visual FoxPro
at Visual FoxPro DevCon. For more information visit
http://www.microsoft.com/vfoxpro/

MICROSOFT TECHED 98
June 1-4, New Orleans, LA
This is the definitive technical conference for building complete
solutions with Microsoft technologies. For more information or to
register visit
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MICROSOFT TECHED EUROPE 98
7-10th July, Nice Acropolis Convention Centre, France
For more information visit
http://www.eu.microsoft.com/europe/teched/

DEVELOPER EVENTS - UNITED STATES
DEVELOPER CAFÉ HITS MICHIGAN AND OHIO
Developers' Cafe hits Michigan and Ohio in March
Learn the basics of Active Server Pages (ASP), a flexible server-side
scripting environment you can use to create and run dynamic web server
applications. See development environments including Internet
Information Server 4.0, ActiveX Data Objects and others for creating and
maintaining HTML pages. For more information visit
http://www.microsoft.com/greatlakes/events/

BOB AND LARRY'S DEVELOPER WORKSHOP SERIES
March 12, Waltham MA (event code 14776)
March 17, Farmington CT (event code 14777)
The theme in March is migration. Find out how to migrate your Visual
Basic 3 and 4 code to Visual Basic 5; how to upsize your Access
databases to SQL Server; and how to migrate your Two - Tier
Client/Server applications to the Internet. For more information visit
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MICROSOFT COLLABORATION COMPUTING SEMINAR FOR DEVELOPERS
In Michigan and Ohio: Developing Applications with Collaboration Data
Objects (CDO)  and the Microsoft Exchange Scripting Agent. Get an
in-depth technical look at the tools developers have available to them
for promoting and extending collaboration among users. For more
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DEVELOPER EVENTS - EUROPE MICROSOFT SQL SERVER AND UNIVERSAL DATA
ACCCESS TECHNICAL CONFERENCE
March 25 - 26 Paris
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April 2 - 3 Frankfurt
April 6 - 7 London
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Configuring the Call Stack Window
from Visual J++ Developer's Journal

During debugging, you can configure the Call Stack Window to display
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MSDN Online Members - we have a new Tip for you each week at
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 13:19:13 -0800 (PST)
To: Michael Conlen 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980308123545.008c6100@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 08:56 AM 3/8/98 -0500, Michael Conlen wrote:
>Are their products designed to encrypt trafic across Frame Relay or
>dedicated telco circuits?

There are a wide variety of products to do that.
I mainly do ATM, for which there aren't many;  there are a few
for frame relay, and there are lots for private line at low-medium speeds,
e.g. 56kbps through T1 (1.544Mbps), though not too many above T1.
Cylink is a popular vendor.

Also, a number of routers either currently or soon will support crypto;
if you're already using one brand on both ends then you can set up
the crypto features, but if you're doing higher speeds you may have
performance limitations.
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Frantz 
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 14:34:37 -0800 (PST)
To: Dave Emery 
Subject: Re: [LEGAL] Crypto as Contraband?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 1:35 PM -0800 3/8/98, Dave Emery wrote:
>	What scares me, as I have said before on this list, is what
>happens when future tamperproof Intel CPUs acquire the ability to run
>encrypted code decrypted inside the processor and all copies of Windows
>2001 are completely unpatchable and opaque (without breaking the crypto)
>and nicely jiggered to enforce rules about what programs are allowed to
>do what or even run at all.

I think the logical result of the wide-spread deployment of such systems in
the US is loss of leadership in technology.  Modern technology is very
dependent on high performance software.  Between cutting off small scale
development and pissing off licensed developers, it sounds like a way to
cut the nation's throat.

It is hard to see how you could make an OS that prevented you from building
a Touring machine and still support the generalized programming needed for
technological leadership.  I expect that encrypted instruction streams will
only be used for copy protection, probably with the same market acceptance
that other copy protection schemes have received.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz       | If hate must be my prison  | Periwinkle -- Consulting
(408)356-8506     | lock, then love must be    | 16345 Englewood Ave.
frantz@netcom.com | the key.     - Phil Ochs   | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Dave Emery 
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 13:35:04 -0800 (PST)
To: Vin McLellan 
Subject: Re: [LEGAL] Crypto as Contraband?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <19980308163525.22538@die.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Sun, Mar 08, 1998 at 01:55:29PM -0500, Vin McLellan wrote:
> 
> 	Whoever at NSA decided that the US national security interests in
> crippled-crypto products, such as it is, could be sustained by such a
> mechanism obvously never heard of the 2600 tone, once the biggest secret of
> the telephone companies. And those who ignore the past, etc., etc....

	As someone who was alive and curious back then (mid 60's), I'd
take issue with this.  I found plenty of technical papers in the Bell
System Technical Journal proudly describing so called SF E&M signalling
(which uses 2600 hz) in great detail, along with MFKP  (blue box tones)
and the whole signalling and switching architecture of the (then) Bell
system. They were proud of what they had developed and quite willing to
share it with the technical community - it was no dark secret at all. 
There was even a technical paper that described in detail a bizzare two
frequency one transistor oscillator that allowed them to build what was
essentially a blue box into a operator console keypad.

	The problem was that nobody outside of a few insider engineers
with devious twisted hacker style imaginations  and the spook agency
types had ever asked what might happen if you sent these in-band tones
down the line from a subscriber telephone at just the right (or wrong)
moments, and what it might be possible to do with this knowlage.  
Nobody else knew or cared to find out what might happen if...

	It is a sad day for US national security if people entrusted
with protecting it don't think about how to defeat the protections they
put in place because they are linear thinkers hobbled by the idea that
everyone will do only the most obvious things.  But I really think that
they perfectly well know that current software can be easily patched to
defeat controls, and that there is little they can do  about it.  Nor is
the threat from software patches to Netscape really likely to endanger
much, since there is already a lot of software like PGP available that
is already strong.  In fact I rather suspect that they are quite happy
to see that patch in ciculation since it substantially bolsters their
long held insistance that all crypto be implemented in tamperproof
hardware chips and not software.

	What scares me, as I have said before on this list, is what
happens when future tamperproof Intel CPUs acquire the ability to run
encrypted code decrypted inside the processor and all copies of Windows
2001 are completely unpatchable and opaque (without breaking the crypto)
and nicely jiggered to enforce rules about what programs are allowed to
do what or even run at all.  

-- 
	Dave Emery N1PRE,  die@die.com  DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass. 
PGP fingerprint = 2047/4D7B08D1 DE 6E E1 CC 1F 1D 96 E2  5D 27 BD B0 24 88 C3 18





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Dave Emery 
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 14:47:10 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: [LEGAL] Crypto as Contraband?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <19980308174741.48691@die.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Sun, Mar 08, 1998 at 04:35:25PM -0500, Dave Emery wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 08, 1998 at 01:55:29PM -0500, Vin McLellan wrote:
> > 
> 	What scares me, as I have said before on this list, is what
> happens when future tamperproof Intel CPUs acquire the ability to run
> encrypted code decrypted inside the processor and all copies of Windows
> 2001 are completely unpatchable and opaque (without breaking the crypto)
> and nicely jiggered to enforce rules about what programs are allowed to
> do what or even run at all.  
> 
	To amplify my point a bit, it is widely reported that Bill Gates
(who is alleged to have started out in business by pirating and selling
DEC software as a high school student) has a particularly keen desire to
control the widespread piracy of MS products.  His aggressive pushes to
assert his property rights are well known (and not atypical of reformed
sinners if the probably apocryphal report is true). 

	And Microsoft, with its enormous market share of Wintel
software, has a very strong incentive to push for implementation of
copyright controls and smartcard authentication for its products into
the basic architecture of PCs.  And guess what - it controls the high
level architecture of the worlds PCs pretty much entirely by its
monopoly control of the major operating systems that run on them.   So
it seems frighteningly likely that Microsoft - which would stand to gain
a lot of money now lost to piracy from such a feature - will very gladly
do all it can to see that crypto based strong copyright enforcement is
built into the hardware and inner regions of the operationg system of
Wintel systems.

	And making this work clearly requires that the relevant parts of
the inner kernel be unmodifiable (easy to do with digital signatures),
and probably kept extremely secret (easy to do with crypto).  In such an
environment it is awfully easy to strike a deal with the government that
adds a little piece or two of code in that black inner space in exchange
for a bending a bit on anti-trust enforcement.  


-- 
	Dave Emery N1PRE,  die@die.com  DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass. 
PGP fingerprint = 2047/4D7B08D1 DE 6E E1 CC 1F 1D 96 E2  5D 27 BD B0 24 88 C3 18





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: harding_david@hotmail.com
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 17:38:59 -0800 (PST)
To: harding_david@hotmail.com
Subject: Bad/No Credit? FIX IT YOURSELF FREE
Message-ID: <199803090138.SAA21617@bobcat.sni.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "'die@die.com'" 
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 17:59:18 -0800 (PST)
To: Ernest Hua 
Subject: Re: Encryption export controls are a rationalization of a "cheat"
In-Reply-To: <413AC08141DBD011A58000A0C924A6D50D7DC5@MVS2>
Message-ID: <19980308205943.36290@die.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Sun, Mar 08, 1998 at 01:59:53PM -0800, Ernest Hua wrote:

> today.  I am not aware of what cellular spectrum chip sets are available
> via Wyle or some other distributor, but I wouldn't be surprised if the
> cost of a digital intercept equivalent gear would be much more than $300
> in parts plus a 300MHz PC (to decode the intercepted stream).

	I don't think I'll bother the list with this, but a big problem
with cellphones is that people have cellphones.  And cellphones are
generally not designed to be tamperproof (in many cases little or no
effort in this cost competitive market has gone into this) so making
a real cellphone serve as the front end to a snooping system has and will
be done and in fact be the easiest hack engineering solution.

> 
> The question is, what is worth the potential interceptor's time and
> money to do this?  It's obvious that politics is enough for the Florida
> couple (in the Gingrich case).  For a college-age hacker, "because I can
> do it" plus "I work in a well-stocked University lab" is probably enough
> reason.  I won't venture to guess what is worth a criminal's time and
> money, but surely existing models for analog piracy behavior is enough
> to characterize the trade-offs.

	There are lots and lots of people who like to be spectators
and are keenly interested in other people's affairs.  All of us are
to some degree - witness the feeding frenzy over the Monica affair -
and some guestimates have estimated that perhaps as much as 40% of
analog cell calls near large cities are being eavesdropped on by
at least one other person.

> 
> In short, we violently agree on the technical plus behavioral front.
> But we are preaching to the choir.  The real audience for a
> easy-to-understand summary is Congress.  They need to understand that
> the assumptions 30 years ago do not apply today.  And that market demand
> for more and more technically-literate engineering professionals along
> with the phenomenal downward price spiral in PC's and consumer
> electronics gear will simply make those assumptions even less applicable
> in the future.

	That problem is getting worse rather than better.  The media 
depiction of the mysterious "hacker" long haired mad kid intent on evil
invasion of the worlds computers is helping create the illusion
that there is a separate techno criminal class.  But the reality is
that more and more people are crossing the barriers that the older lawyers
in congress never tried to cross and learning something about technology 
and software.   And these people are the guy next door with the cute
kids, not fringe crazies.   And the evil net allows information to
become available much more widely than before.

> 
> Regarding my moral or ethical argument, I am using the fuzzy standard
> set by what society will accept or not accept.

	From my perspective, there are deep divisions and ambivalences
in what the US people will tolerate.  They hate the idea of being spied open
but buy nanny cams and gobble up spy novels and TV shows.   They purchase
millions of police scanners and react in horror when Linda Tripp tapes 
a conversation to protect her ass.   And they expect the US government
to be on top of events around the world and have inside knowlage of 
other governments and react in horror when their spies are unmasked
within our walls, and their eavesdropping gets shown on the nightly
news.  And cities install more and more cameras and bosses read more
email and listen to more calls on business phones every year.


>  I don't think I need to
> argue that most American citizens will be really really pissed if they
> found out that the NSA is spying here via their British counterparts, or
> that the FBI has conducted far more intercepts than they officially
> report.

	Yes, its definately sausage but it tastes good...


>  I am definitely not arguing that the FBI or the NSA has any
> obligation to inform the public of what weaknesses they use to gain an
> intercept advantage.  What concerns most people is that they see
> (correctly) that the NSA's advantage was not based on technical
> superiority, but on the ignorance of everyone else.

	That is true, and it is also sadly true that a lot of their
effort has gone into frank deception, and active determined efforts to block
those of us who have been fighting for incorperating at least minimal
crypto communications security into the infrastructure.

	The Internet is ending this era, however, because it is no
longer possible to control the flow of information and news about 
communications security and crypto, and slowly the holes will get
plugged.

  People do get more
> intelligent over time, and the rapid public gain in the cryptography
> area has pretty much wiped out the gains the NSA has depended on over
> the last 50 years.  If the average person understands that what the FBI
> and the NSA REALLY want is for you to be stupid (at least in the area of
> communications security), then there would be an uproar.
> 
	This is happening, and that is why Louie is grabbing desperately
for the last chance... and why congress is busily passing anti scanner
bills to solve the cellphone privacy problem that don't mention a thing
about cryptography.

	Their desparate hope is if they say it solomnly enough and with
enough ceremony the public will see the emporer's clothes


-- 
	Dave Emery N1PRE,  die@die.com  DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass. 
PGP fingerprint = 2047/4D7B08D1 DE 6E E1 CC 1F 1D 96 E2  5D 27 BD B0 24 88 C3 18





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Roger H Tancrell 
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 18:24:22 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com
Subject: Wrong Address???
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


To Cypherpunks:

In the last couple days, I have received many, many e-mail messages.

How did I get your your group list???  Perhaps, you have the wrong
"Roger".

Please remove my name.

Thanks.  Roger Tancrell







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Rabid Wombat 
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 17:42:32 -0800 (PST)
To: Wilhelm Geiger III 
Subject: Re: The Filth Dogman of the Surveillance Apocalypse
In-Reply-To: <35048609.5EB4@2me.dash>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Toto needs to study the bat book.

On Mon, 9 Mar 1998, Wilhelm Geiger III wrote:

> * In August, two cities debated plans to reduce the amount of dog
> poop in municipal parks and on sidewalks.  The city of




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 04:10:50 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Matt Blaze KE Patent
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980309121223.007120d4@pop.pipeline.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


9 March 1998, MicroPatent:

Escrow key management system for accessing encrypted data with 
portable cryptographic modules (Assignee -- Lucent Technologies 
Inc.)

Abstract: A cryptographic module, such as a smartcard, is 
designed to a) store decrypting software programs, and information 
indicative of predetermined conditions under which an escrow agent 
is enabled to use the software programs stored on the module to 
decrypt encrypted data files, and b) records for audit purposes, 
information indicating every time the software programs are used 
for decryption. 

Ex Claim Text: A system for managing access to one or more 
encrypted data files stored in a computer system, said system 
comprising: a file of the computer system which associates a 
cryptographic key with a cryptographic module that is subsequently 
assigned to a selected user; a memory of the cryptographic module 
which stores a) access information allowing use of the cryptographic 
module by the selected user under specific conditions, said access 
information including the cryptographic key, a corresponding 
cryptographic passphrase and a software program to decrypt the one 
or more encrypted data files; means responsive to receiving at said 
cryptographic module said corresponding cryptographic passphrase 
from said selected user, for a) permitting decryption of said one 
or more data flies when the specific conditions are met, and b) 
recording in said memory transactional information associated with 
said decryption, and b) uses said cryptographic module for the 
purpose of decrypting one or more of said data files; and means for 
querying at a later time said cryptographic module to retrieve said 
transactional information recorded on said memory.

Assignee: Lucent Technologies Inc. 

Patent Number: 5721777 

Issue Date: 1998 02 24 

Inventor(s): Blaze, Matthew A. 

If you would like to purchase a copy of this patent, please call 
MicroPatent at 800-648-6787. 






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Gene Tsudik 
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 09:02:08 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Final CFP: 5th ACM Conference on Computer and Communications Security
Message-ID: <199803091701.JAA20079@pollux.usc.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



                          Final Call for Papers

                          Fifth ACM Conference on
                    Computer and Communications Security

                          San Francisco, California
                             November 3-5, 1998
                           Sponsored by ACM SIGSAC

Papers offering novel research contributions in any aspect of computer
security are solicited for submission to the Fifth ACM Conference on
Computer and Communications Security. Papers may present theory, technique,
applications, or practical experience on topics including but not limited to

 access control         authentication           accounting and audit

 mobile code security   applied cryptography     data/system integrity
 
 cryptographic          electronic commerce      intrusion detection
 protocols

 key management         privacy and anonymity    intellectual property
                                                 protection

 information warfare    secure networking        secure operating systems

 viruses and worms      security management      distributed systems
                                                 security

 database security      smart-cards and secure   security verification
                        PDAs

Accepted papers will be presented at the conference and published by the ACM
in a conference proceedings. Outstanding papers will be invited for possible
publication in ACM Transactions on Information and System Security.

Instructions for paper submissions: Submitted papers must not substantially
overlap papers that have been published or that are simultaneously submitted
to a journal or a conference with a proceedings. Papers should be at most 15
pages excluding the bibliography and well-marked appendices (using 11-point
font and reasonable margins on 8.5'x11' paper), and at most 20 pages total.
Committee members are not required to read the appendices, and so the paper
should be intelligible without them. Papers should be submitted in a form
suitable for anonymous review (no author names or affiliations).

   * Send via email to reiter@research.att.com a plain ASCII text message
     containing the title and abstract of your paper, the authors' names,
     email and postal addresses, phone and fax numbers, and identification
     of the contact author.

   * In addition, submit your paper using ONE of the following two methods.

        o Electronic submission (preferred): Instructions for submitting
          your Postscript paper by e-mail can be obtained from
          http://www.research.att.com/~reiter/ccs5/esub.html or by sending
          email to ccs98@research.att.com with the Subject line containing
          "HELP". It is strongly recommended that you electronically submit
          your paper at least five days in advance of the submission
          deadline, to allow us adequate time to verify that we can print
          your paper (and if not, to allow you to submit your paper in
          hardcopy to be received by the submission deadline). We cannot be
          held responsible for papers that we cannot print.

          OR

        o Hardcopy submission: Send eighteen (18) copies of your paper to
          the program chair at the address below with a cover letter
          indicating that your paper is a submission for the 5th ACM
          Conference on Computer and Communications Security, and listing
          the authors' names, email and postal addresses, phone and fax
          numbers, and identifying the contact author.

Submissions received after the submission deadline will be rejected without
review. Where possible all further communications to authors will be via
email.

                  Paper submissions due:    April 3, 1998
                  Acceptance notification:  June 5, 1998
                  Final papers due:         July 16, 1998

Instructions for panel proposals The conference may include panel sessions
addressing topics of interest to the computer security community. Proposals
for panels should be no longer than five (5) pages in length and should
include possible panelists and an indication of which of those panelists
have confirmed participation. Send two (2) hardcopies of your proposal to
the program chair at the address below with a cover letter indicating that
your proposal is for the 5th ACM Conference on Computer and Communications
Security, and listing the proposers' names, email and postal addresses, and
phone and fax numbers.

                   Panel proposals due:     May 1, 1998
                   Acceptance notification: June 5, 1998

 Steering committee chair: Ravi Sandhu, George Mason University
 General chair:            Li Gong, JavaSoft

 Program chair:            Mike Reiter
                           AT&T Labs, Room A269, 180 Park Avenue
                           Florham Park, NJ 07932-0971 USA
                           phone: +973-360-8349

 Awards chair:             Jacques Stern, ENS/DMI
 Publication chair:        Stuart Stubblebine, AT&T Labs
 Publicity chair:          Gene Tsudik, USC ISI

Program committee:
 Martin Abadi, DEC SRC              David Naccache, Gemplus
 Bill Cheswick, Lucent/Bell Labs    Hilarie Orman, DARPA/ITO
 Carl Ellison, Cybercash            Avi Rubin, AT&T Labs--Research
 Ed Felten, Princeton University    Pierangela Samarati, Universita di Milano
 Paul Karger, IBM T.J. Watson       Gene Tsudik, USC ISI
 Steve Kent, BBN Corporation        Paul Van Oorschot, Entrust Technologies
 Ueli Maurer, ETH Zurich            Bennet Yee, UCSD
 Cathy Meadows, Naval Res. Lab      Moti Yung, CertCo

For more information, visit http://www.research.att.com/~reiter/ccs5
 			or  http://www.isi.edu/~gts/cfp.html




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 10:05:41 -0800 (PST)
To: die@die.com>
Subject: RE: Crypto as contraband
In-Reply-To: <19980306231001.53809@die.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980309094018.007be4f0@otc.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>> 	So yes, they have done at least as bad a thing to people who
>> merely want to tinker with their radios and occasionally explore what is
>> out there in the ether by passively and in private receiving radio
>> signals as they have to gun owners,

The morons in congress responded to intercepts of cellphones.  Because
Newt was scanned.  Response: outlaw *cellphones*... which are 
themselves typically programmable as scanners of cell freqs.  And scanners
and programmable RF receivers.

Someone should pick up a congresscritter's monitor (a la van Eyk), then let
them 
make fools of themselves banning television receivers... as video tempest
receiving gear...

[NB: since television Ch 83 overlaps with a cell-phone channel, TVs are
already illegal
under this law, no?  Selling an old analog b/w TV is now punishable by 1/2
million fine... ]

Are they going to ban IR lasers since they can be used to listen to window
vibration?

Remember Tacitus.










------------------------------------------------------------
      David Honig                   Orbit Technology
     honig@otc.net                  Intaanetto Jigyoubu

"I do believe that where there is a choice only between cowardice and
    violence, I would advise violence." Mahatma Gandhi








	















From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: jtsr-stock@jtsr-stock.com
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 09:48:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: JT's Restarants - Excellent Undervauled Investment Opportunity
Message-ID: <199803091748.JAA04824@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


To be removed from our mailing list please reply to this message with 
"REMOVE" in the subject.

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potential investors only and does not constitute an offering of 
securities.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: sara@iddqd.org
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 10:00:38 -0800 (PST)
To: preferredcustomer
Subject: Free Insurance Quote
Message-ID: <199803091800.KAA04912@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: jtsr-stock@jtsr-stock.com
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 14:12:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: JT's Restarants - Excellent Undervauled Investment Opportunity
Message-ID: <199803092212.OAA07415@cygint.cygnus.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


To be removed from our mailing list please reply to this message with 
"REMOVE" in the subject.

Recently we wrote you to tell about an excellent investment opportunity 
in JT's Restaurants (OTC BB: JTSR).  Since our last message was sent 
JTSR has risen in value over 40% (from Feb 17, 1998 to March 6, 1998).  
This is just the beginning.  This is still a ground floor opportunity.  
If you would like more information about this exciting investment 
opportunity please visit our web site at http://www.jtsr-stock.com or 
call 1-888-295-6365 for complete information.

The contents of this message have been provided for the review of 
potential investors only and does not constitute an offering of 
securities.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 16:50:29 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: [WAREZ]  Mr. Hankey claims squatter's rights
Message-ID: <35047490.456C@dev.null>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


* The show business newspaper Daily Variety reported in December
that John Kricfalusi, creator TV's "The Ren & Stimpy Show," was
threatening legal action against the producers of the Comedy Central
show "South Park" for ripping off a cartoon character.  According to
Kricfalusi, his character "Nutty the Friendly Dump," an animated piece
of excrement, must have been the basis for "South Park"'s "Mr. Hankey
the Christmas Poo," a holiday-dressed, singing, dancing piece of
excrement.

~~~~~~~~~~~~
WEIRDNUZ.520 (News of the Weird, January 23, 1998)
by Chuck Shepherd

NEWS OF THE WEIRD, founded in 1988, is a nationally syndicated
newspaper column distributed by Universal Press Syndicate.  To
receive the columns by e-mail, free of charge, send a message to
notw-request@nine.org with the Subject line of Subscribe.  To read
these News of the Weird newspaper columns from the past six months,
go to http://www.nine.org/notw/notw.html  (That site contains no
graphics, no photos, no video clips, no audio.  Just text.  Deal
with it.)






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 16:50:33 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: D.C.'s  Sister City?
Message-ID: <350476A6.51E4@love.cum>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


* According to a report in the Washington Post in November, armed
robbers in the large Nigerian trading city of Onitsha are so bold, and
the police so outmanned, that they often notify the victims in advance
that they will be coming to rob them, to encourage the residents to be
away from the house at the time.  A few days after the police
announced a crackdown, one gang of 50 armed robbers cordoned off
a street and looted every apartment building on the block.


~~~~~~~~~~~~
WEIRDNUZ.520 (News of the Weird, January 23, 1998)
by Chuck Shepherd

NEWS OF THE WEIRD, founded in 1988, is a nationally syndicated
newspaper column distributed by Universal Press Syndicate.  To
receive the columns by e-mail, free of charge, send a message to
notw-request@nine.org with the Subject line of Subscribe.  To read
these News of the Weird newspaper columns from the past six months,
go to http://www.nine.org/notw/notw.html  (That site contains no
graphics, no photos, no video clips, no audio.  Just text.  Deal
with it.)






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Blanc Weber 
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 16:50:47 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: The Revolution is  NOW! (Think about it, Gertrude...over a Stein of beer, perhaps?)
Message-ID: <35047968.23C7@cover.ed>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


* What Goes Around, Comes Around:  Since taking control of
most of Afghanistan in September 1996, the religious Taliban army
has enforced strict, conservative Islamic rule, especially regarding
the work, recreation, and dress of women.  Now, according to a
report in the London Daily Telegraph in November, a splinter
Muslim group about 200 miles north of Kabul has begun to train a
women-only battalion to fight the Taliban.  Females from the
Hazaras, a Turkic Mongol ethnic group, have been training at a
secret location and will soon begin a major recruiting campaign.

~~~~~~~~~~~~
WEIRDNUZ.520 (News of the Weird, January 23, 1998)
by Chuck Shepherd

NEWS OF THE WEIRD, founded in 1988, is a nationally syndicated
newspaper column distributed by Universal Press Syndicate.  To
receive the columns by e-mail, free of charge, send a message to
notw-request@nine.org with the Subject line of Subscribe.  To read
these News of the Weird newspaper columns from the past six months,
go to http://www.nine.org/notw/notw.html  (That site contains no
graphics, no photos, no video clips, no audio.  Just text.  Deal
with it.)






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Eric Hughes 
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 16:50:54 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: CypherPunks -- The Early Years
Message-ID: <35047ADA.2EEF@huge.cum>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


* William Garland, the father of the late rap singer Tupac Shakur,
fighting for part of Shakur's multi-million-dollar estate in Los
Angeles in August, despite his having had no contact with his son
after age five, pointed out at a hearing how he was a good father.
For example, he said he would often tuck in little Tupac, a bed-
wetter, with another Garland son, also a bed-wetter:  "They could
pee with each other."

~~~~~~~~~~~~
WEIRDNUZ.520 (News of the Weird, January 23, 1998)
by Chuck Shepherd

NEWS OF THE WEIRD, founded in 1988, is a nationally syndicated
newspaper column distributed by Universal Press Syndicate.  To
receive the columns by e-mail, free of charge, send a message to
notw-request@nine.org with the Subject line of Subscribe.  To read
these News of the Weird newspaper columns from the past six months,
go to http://www.nine.org/notw/notw.html  (That site contains no
graphics, no photos, no video clips, no audio.  Just text.  Deal
with it.)






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "David W. Crawford" 
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 12:31:16 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Fred Cohen's The Deception ToolKit (fwd)
Message-ID: <42>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


>From comp.risks digest 19.62
 
> ------- Start of forwarded message -------
> Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 05:52:28 -0800 (PST)
> From: Fred Cohen 
> Subject: The Deception ToolKit
> 
> I would like to announce and introduce a new security tool available for free
> from over the Internet - The Deception ToolKit - available from http://all.net/
> 
> The Deception ToolKit (DTK) is a toolkit designed to give defenders a couple
> of orders of magnitude advantage over attackers. 
> 
> The basic idea is not new. We use deception to counter attacks. In the case
> of DTK, the deception is intended to make it appear to attackers as if the
> system running DTK has a large number of widely known vulnerabilities. DTK's
> deception is programmable, but it is typically limited to producing output
> in response to attacker input in such a way as to simulate the behavior of a
> system which is vulnerable to the attackers method. This has a few
> interesting side effects: 
> 
>   It increases the attacker's workload because they can't easily tell
>   which of their attack attempts works and which fail. For example, if
>   an attack produces what appears to be a Unix password file, the
>   attacker would normally run "Crack" to try to break into the system.
>   But if the password file is a fake, it consumes the attackers time and
>   effort to no result. 
> 
>   It allows us to track attacker attempts at entry and respond before
>   they come across a vulnerability we are susceptible to. For example,
>   when the attacker tries to use a known Sendmail attack against our
>   site, we record all of their entries to track their techniques. With
>   this deception in place, we have no problem picking up port scans,
>   password guessing, and all manner of other attack attempts as they happen. 
> 
>   It sours the milk - so to speak. If one person uses DTK, they can see
>   attacks coming well ahead of time. If a few others start using it, we
>   will probably exhaust the attackers and they will go somewhere else to
>   run their attacks. If a lot of people use DTK, the attackers will find
>   that they need to spend 100 times the effort to break into systems and
>   that they have a high risk of detection well before their attempts succeed.
> 
>   If enough people adopt DTK and work together to keep it's deceptions
>   up to date, we will eliminate all but the most sophisticated
>   attackers, and all the copy-cat attacks will be detected soon after
>   they are released to the wide hacking community. This will not only
>   sour the milk, it will also up the ante for would-be copy-cat
>   attackers and, as a side effect, reduce the "noise" level of attacks to
>   allow us to more clearly see the more serious attackers and track them down. 
> 
>   If DTK becomes very widespread, one of DTK's key deceptions will
>   become very effective. This deception is port 507 - which we have
>   staked a claim for as the deception port. Port 507 indicates whether
>   the machine you are attempting to connect to is running a deception
>   defense. Naturally, attackers who wish to avoid deceptive defenses
>   will check there first, and eventually, simply running the deceptive
>   defense notifier will be adequate to eliminate many of the attackers.
>   Of course some of us defenders will not turn on the deception
>   announcement message so we can track new attack attempts by those who
>   avoid deceptive defenses, so... the attacker's level of uncertainty
>   rises, and the information world becomes a safer place to work. 
> 
> Your positive and helpful comments are appreciated.  FC
> 
> Fred Cohen & Associates: http://all.net - fc@all.net - tel/fax:510-454-0171------- End of forwarded message -------


David W. Crawford    
Los Gatos, CA        






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: jtatz@chemistry.ohio-state.edu
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 14:32:28 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: RE: Crypto as contraband
Message-ID: <350453B0.7E32@accessatlanta.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


> The morons in congress responded to intercepts of cellphones.  Because
> Newt was scanned.  Response: outlaw *cellphones*... which are
> themselves typically programmable as scanners of cell freqs.  > And scanners
> and programmable RF receivers.

The ECPA (Electronic Communications Privacy Act) banned cell phone
scanning, as of 1994 I believe. When Newt was monitored, that was
nothing really new.

Ch 83, (890-986?) is cell, however Federal law (Title 18, Chapter 119)
makes cell monitoring illegal only if it INTENTIONAL. And owning and
buying cell-phone capable devices is LEGAL. The only catch is who is
selling it, it is my understanding you can sell a cell scanner used
without a prob. I currently own a cell-capable scanner. 

~Jim
------------------------------------------
A great man named Ben Tersian once said
"Avoid the cliche 'Information must be free'"
"Find it learn it embrace it and set it free."




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Carol Anne CypherPunk 
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 16:52:27 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: I want 5-1/2 inches, and I want to bleed...
Message-ID: <35047E46.16EF@knees.gun>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


* Robert Kong, 13, was arrested and charged with manufacturing a
destructive device, namely a 5-1/2-inch pipe bomb that he had
made, gift-wrapped, and presented to a female classmate in
Corvallis, Ore., for her birthday.  He said he followed the
instructions he had seen on an Internet site.

~~~~~~~~~~~~
WEIRDNUZ.520 (News of the Weird, January 23, 1998)
by Chuck Shepherd

NEWS OF THE WEIRD, founded in 1988, is a nationally syndicated
newspaper column distributed by Universal Press Syndicate.  To
receive the columns by e-mail, free of charge, send a message to
notw-request@nine.org with the Subject line of Subscribe.  To read
these News of the Weird newspaper columns from the past six months,
go to http://www.nine.org/notw/notw.html  (That site contains no
graphics, no photos, no video clips, no audio.  Just text.  Deal
with it.)






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Wilhelm Geiger III 
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 16:50:49 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: The Filth Dogman of the Surveillance Apocalypse
Message-ID: <35048609.5EB4@2me.dash>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


* In August, two cities debated plans to reduce the amount of dog
poop in municipal parks and on sidewalks.  The city of
Christchurch, New Zealand, was contemplating installing a series
of anonymous "poopcams" around town to catch dog owners who
neglect their scooping duty.  And Tel Aviv, Israel, announced that
squads of plainclothes police officers armed with cameras and
night-vision equipment were on duty around the clock
photographing violators of its ordinance.

~~~~~~~~~~~~
WEIRDNUZ.520 (News of the Weird, January 23, 1998)
by Chuck Shepherd

NEWS OF THE WEIRD, founded in 1988, is a nationally syndicated
newspaper column distributed by Universal Press Syndicate.  To
receive the columns by e-mail, free of charge, send a message to
notw-request@nine.org with the Subject line of Subscribe.  To read
these News of the Weird newspaper columns from the past six months,
go to http://www.nine.org/notw/notw.html  (That site contains no
graphics, no photos, no video clips, no audio.  Just text.  Deal
with it.)






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: orowley@imaginemedia.com (Owen Rowley)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 16:55:40 -0800 (PST)
To: Dave Emery 
Subject: Re: [LEGAL] Crypto as Contraband?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <35048F2F.CFCC496D@imaginemedia.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Dave Emery wrote:

>         To amplify my point a bit, it is widely reported that Bill Gates
> (who is alleged to have started out in business by pirating and selling
> DEC software as a high school student) has a particularly keen desire to
> control the widespread piracy of MS products.  His aggressive pushes to
> assert his property rights are well known (and not atypical of reformed
> sinners if the probably apocryphal report is true).

some clues:

clue 1)
http://www.fourmilab.ch/autofile/www/section2_106_6.html#SECTION001066000000000000000

clue 2)
http://www.fourmilab.ch/autofile/www/section2_106_7.html

bonus mega clue)
http://www.fourmilab.ch/autofile/www/section2_106_1.html#SECTION001061000000000000000

HELL Check out  the whole Program.

http://www.fourmilab.ch/autofile/www/chapter2_106.html

LUX ./. owen






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Avi Rubin 
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 13:59:17 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Updated list of crypto and security courses
Message-ID: <199803092156.QAA12426@mgoblue.research.att.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Thanks to everyone for your great suggestions/additions/deletions.
I added, changed or deleted over 25 courses this time around. Now
back to my regularly scheduled life.

The updated course list can be found at:

   http://www.cs.nyu.edu/~rubin/courses.html

Avi


*********************************************************************
Aviel D. Rubin                                 rubin@research.att.com
Secure Systems Research Dept.                Adjunct Professor at NYU
AT&T Labs - Research
180 Park Avenue                   http://www.research.att.com/~rubin/
Florham Park, NJ 07932-0971                    Voice: +1 973 360-8356
USA                                            FAX:   +1 973 360-8809

   --> Check out http://www.clark.net/pub/mjr/websec/ for a new
       book on web security (The Web Security Sourcebook).
*********************************************************************





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Tatz 
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 14:04:50 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: RE: Crypto as contraband
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980309094018.007be4f0@otc.net>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


> The morons in congress responded to intercepts of cellphones.  Because
> Newt was scanned.  Response: outlaw *cellphones*... which are 
> themselves typically programmable as scanners of cell freqs.  And scanners
> and programmable RF receivers.

The ECPA (Electronic Communications Privacy Act) banned cell phone
scanning, as of 1994 I believe. When Newt was monitored, that was nothing
really new.

Ch 83, (890-986?) is cell, however Federal law (Title 18, Chapter 119)
makes cell monitoring illegal only if it INTENTIONAL. And owning and
buying cell-phone capable devices is LEGAL. The only catch is who is
selling it, it is my understanding you can sell a cell scanner used
without a prob. I currently own a cell-capable scanner.

~Jim
------------------------------------------
A great man named Ben Tersian once said
"Avoid the cliche 'Information must be free'"
"Find it learn it embrace it and set it free."






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 04:15:42 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: DCSB: Adam Shostack; No Silver Bullet -- Digital Commerce and Payment Security
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



--- begin forwarded text


X-Sender: rah@pop.sneaker.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 17:37:24 -0500
To: dcsb@ai.mit.edu, dcsb-announce@ai.mit.edu
From: Robert Hettinga 
Subject: DCSB: Adam Shostack; No Silver Bullet -- Digital Commerce and
 Payment Security
Cc: Adam Shostack , Jeremey Barrett ,
        "Michael S. Baum" 
Sender: bounce-dcsb@ai.mit.edu
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: Robert Hettinga 

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

              The Digital Commerce Society of Boston

                            Presents

                        Adam Shostack
                         Netect, Inc.

                       "No Silver Bullet"
           Digital Commerce and Payment Security

                    Tuesday, April 7, 1997
                           12 - 2 PM
               The Downtown Harvard Club of Boston
                  One Federal Street, Boston, MA



The traditional threats that apply to digital commerce systems are the same
as the threats against all other commerce systems.  But the communications
networks that are available to the bad guys make possible and effective
attacks that could never work before.  Adam Shostack will examine some of
these new threats to electronic commerce, some of the potential solutions,
and share his vision of the future tools to protect commerce.

New attacks against commerce include the automation of knowledge.  The
pickpocket of old needed to practice for years to learn how to be
effective.  Today's 14 year olds can download a package with a win95
interface to exploit security holes.  The nature of the internet allows
them to engage in these attacks anonymously. The anonymous nature of the
net also means that people can engage in attacks that have a very small
payoff, or a small chance of a large payoff.  They also engage in attacks
for the thrill of it, costing companies trust and confidence, as well as
down time and its associated lost revenue.

New methods of dealing with the threats and problems posed by the
automation of new attacks will be required.  Where 'traditional' security
measures, such as firewalls, have failed to deal with the new attacks,
there is need to try new approaches. This talk will cover the new breeds of
attack, and the new methods of building secure foundations to help busy
companies cope.


Mr. Shostack is Director of Technology for Netect, Inc, a startup making
innovative applications to help cope with the new breed of security
problems.  He has extensive background in designing, implementing and
testing secure systems for clients in the medical, computer, and financial
industries. His recent public work includes 'Apparent Weaknesses in the
Security Dynamics Client Server Protocol,' 'Source Code Review Guidelines,'
and comparisons of freely available cryptographic libraries. Adam was also
one of the instructors, along with John Kelsey of Counterpane, and Gary
Howland of SecureAccounts, in Ian Goldberg's FC98 Financial Cryptography
Workshop, which was held in Anguilla in early March this year.



This meeting of the Digital Commerce Society of Boston will be held on
Tuesday, April 7, 1997, from 12pm - 2pm at the Downtown Branch of the
Harvard Club of Boston, on One Federal Street. The price for lunch is
$32.50. This price includes lunch, room rental, various A/V hardware, and
the speaker's lunch. ;-).  The Harvard Club *does* have dress code: jackets
and ties for men (and no sneakers or jeans), and "appropriate business
attire" (whatever that means), for women.  Fair warning: since we purchase
these luncheons in advance, we will be unable to refund the price of your
lunch if the Club finds you in violation of the dress code.

We will attempt to record this meeting for sale on CD/R, and to put it on
the web in RealAudio format, at some future date.


We need to receive a company check, or money order, (or, if we *really* know
you, a personal check) payable to "The Harvard Club of Boston", by Saturday,
April 4th, or you won't be on the list for lunch.  Checks payable to
anyone else but The Harvard Club of Boston will have to be sent back.

Checks should be sent to Robert Hettinga, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston,
Massachusetts, 02131. Again, they *must* be made payable to "The Harvard
Club of Boston", in the amount of $32.50. Please include your e-mail
address, so that we can send you a confirmation

If anyone has questions, or has a problem with these arrangements (We've had
to work with glacial A/P departments more than once, for instance), please
let us know via e-mail, and we'll see if we can work something out.

Upcoming speakers for DCSB are:

May       Jeremey Barrett     Digital Bearer Certificate Protocols
June      Michael Baum        PKI and the Commercial CA

We are actively searching for future speakers.  If you are in Boston on the
first Tuesday of the month, and you would like to make a presentation to the
Society, please send e-mail to the DCSB Program Commmittee, care of Robert
Hettinga, .


For more information about the Digital Commerce Society of Boston, send
"info dcsb" in the body of a message to  . If
you want to subscribe to the DCSB e-mail list, send "subscribe dcsb" in the
body of a message to  .

We look forward to seeing you there!

Cheers,
Robert Hettinga
Moderator,
The Digital Commerce Society of Boston




-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.5.3

iQEVAwUBNQRurMUCGwxmWcHhAQFLyQf9H4KUArV/SocXwK6O5aW028g2NsFUp5qU
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-----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
To unsubscribe from this list, send a letter to: Majordomo@ai.mit.edu
In the body of the message, write:  unsubscribe dcsb-announce
Or, to subscribe,           write:  subscribe dcsb-announce
If you have questions, write to me at Owner-DCSB@ai.mit.edu

--- end forwarded text



-----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: jtsr-stock@jtsr-stock.com
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 18:12:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: JT's Restarants - Excellent Undervauled Investment Opportunity
Message-ID: <199803100212.SAA08270@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


To be removed from our mailing list please reply to this message with 
"REMOVE" in the subject.

Recently we wrote you to tell about an excellent investment opportunity 
in JT's Restaurants (OTC BB: JTSR).  Since our last message was sent 
JTSR has risen in value over 40% (from Feb 17, 1998 to March 6, 1998).  
This is just the beginning.  This is still a ground floor opportunity.  
If you would like more information about this exciting investment 
opportunity please visit our web site at http://www.jtsr-stock.com or 
call 1-888-295-6365 for complete information.

The contents of this message have been provided for the review of 
potential investors only and does not constitute an offering of 
securities.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 18:04:25 -0800 (PST)
To: even@cs.technion.ac.il
Subject: Statsi, sayanim, spiking crypto
Message-ID: <35049DD9.52CA@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Monday 3/9/98 6:17 PM

merata@pearl.sums.ac.ir
lawya@lucs-01.novell.leeds.ac.uk
sjmz@hplb.hpl.hp.com

Guys

I just read a printed copy I made of 

 Crypto AG: The NSA's Trojan Whore?

 http://caq.com/CAQ/caq63/caq63madsen.html

starting at http://www.aci.net/kalliste/

fairly carefully.

I seized upon Madsen's statements,

1 the random encryption key could be automatically and 
  clandestinely transmitted with the enciphered message.

2 they may also have been tipped off by Stasi files of the 
  ex-East German regime that found their way to Iran

Try MfS agents who went to work for Iran after the Cold War.

Then there was the postcard from Tel Aviv I received at 
Sandia labs which followed-up a yellow piece of paper sent
by snail mail asking numbered detailed question about work 
I was doing at Sandia.

I responded back to the postcard, by postcard of course, 

               "Know any sayanim?"

No response. 

It doesn't take at rocket scientist to figure that one out.

Let's all hope for settlement of this unfortunate matter so that
we can all move on to more constructive projects.

Best
bill






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 18:48:36 -0800 (PST)
To: wpi@wpiran.org
Subject: REASONABLENESS
Message-ID: <3504A945.1286@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Guys

The great ANGLO ARMADA is sailing near Iran.

And the Armada needs to expend its 'intelligent' weapons
for business reasons.

Be on the BEST OF BEHAVIOR. 

best regards
bill


Monday 3/9/98 6:17 PM

merata@pearl.sums.ac.ir
lawya@lucs-01.novell.leeds.ac.uk
sjmz@hplb.hpl.hp.com

Guys

I just read a printed copy I made of 

 Crypto AG: The NSA's Trojan Whore?

 http://caq.com/CAQ/caq63/caq63madsen.html

starting at http://www.aci.net/kalliste/

fairly carefully.

I seized upon Madsen's statements,

1 the random encryption key could be automatically and 
  clandestinely transmitted with the enciphered message.

2 they may also have been tipped off by Stasi files of the 
  ex-East German regime that found their way to Iran

Try MfS agents who went to work for Iran after the Cold War.

Then there was the postcard from Tel Aviv I received at 
Sandia labs which followed-up a yellow piece of paper sent
by snail mail asking numbered detailed questions about work 
I was doing at Sandia.

I responded back to the postcard, by postcard of course, 

               "Know any sayanim?"

No response. 

It doesn't take at rocket scientist to figure that one out.

Let's all hope for settlement of this unfortunate matter so that
we can all move on to more constructive projects.

Best
bill






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ken Williams 
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 17:39:30 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: U.S. NATIONAL INFORMATION EMERGENCY DECLARED (Future View) (fwd)
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


____________________________________



U.S. NATIONAL INFORMATION EMERGENCY DECLARED (Future View)

Hamilton, Bermuda  -- Radio Free America at 2000 UTC -- (February 24,
1999)
-
FBI director Louis Freeh, Jr. today announced a nationwide crackdown on
Internet abusers as President Clinton invoked  new authorities granted
him under the Information Infrastructure Defense Act (IIDA) of 1998. White
House Press Secretary Monica Lewinsky said the President declared  a
national information emergency at 9:23 last night. The emergency
automatically lasts for 100 days. The President may then seek an extension
after consulting with three members of Congress. The FBI's Indication and
Warning Threat Center in Newington, Virginia first reported an 850 percent
increase in illegal Internet access attempts last Thursday, prompting Mr.
Freeh to ask for the presidential emergency declaration. 

Among the sites hacked were the White House's Automated Oval Office Visit
Scheduling System; the Democratic National Committee's Insta-Donation
System; the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms Tennessee
Summer Picnic Reservation System; the FBI's Hostage Rescue Team's
Seventh Day Adventist Watch Network (also known as "Deep Six the Sevens
Net"); the Electronic Pearl Harbor Visitors' Center;  the Arkansas
Attorney General's Cases-Disposed -Without-Further- Investigation System;
the Embassy of China's "Rent-a-Prez" system; and the Indonesian Embassy's
Rupiah-to-Dollar Laundromat Net.
       
The nationwide sting of Internet intruders began at noon yesterday
when the New York field office of the Secret Service arrested 25 members
of the Brooklyn Cyberspace Liberation Front at their regularly scheduled
Tuesday meeting at a Bayside Cyber Café. Secret Service spokesman Biff
"Buck" Arew said, "it took us a while to figure out when they were going
to be in one spot, but after we employed our best investigative
techniques, we had them right where we wanted them. The arresting part was
easy." 

The Secret Service is a designated  information infrastructure law
enforcement agency under the 1998 legislation. It was joined by elements
of the FBI, the U.S. Marshals' Service, the Federal Emergency Management
Agency, the Postal Inspection Service, the Park Service, the Border
Patrol,  the Enforcement Division of the Federal Communications
Commission, as well as New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani, in the coast-to-coast
operation. Meanwhile, special FAA security officers on loan from Microsoft
were busy at the nation's airports searching the notebook and palmtop
computers of air travelers for illegal software programs.  At the
Pentagon, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff said, "the military
now reserves the right to move forward on the information super highway."

He said he considers the Internet similar to the nation's interstate
highway system.  "When you have a bunch of stalled cars from a
high-altitude combination electromagnetic and gamma-ray burst littering
all the passing lanes and on- ramps, our armored vehicles just need to
push them aside and move on."

The general, who escaped a recent international war crimes indictment
resulting from his peacekeeping duties in Angola, did not elaborate on the
meaning of his comment.  Other mass arrests of hackers were made in
Chicago; New Orleans; Sunnyvale, California; Tampa; Atlanta, Washington,
D.C.; Los Angeles; and St. Louis.  Some of the arrested individuals are
noted opponents of the government's policies to control the flow of
information on the Internet.  Internet users report that some
controversial web sites are no longer accessible, although the FBI
refused to confirm whether their operators were among those arrested.

The inaccessible sites include those of the Libertarian Alliance, USA;
Cascadia Green Party; Outer Banks Secessionist Party; Ashcroft for
President 2000; Supreme Court, Free Crypto Home Page;  First Amendment
Enforcement Coalition; United We Stand (Marxist-Leninist); SPAM
Prohibition League;  Virtual Zapatista, and the Arizona Naturist Home
Page.

Federal officials stated that the number of arrests totaled more than
900. Critics of the government action claim the number is much higher. An
Amnesty International spokesperson in Teheran said she thinks the number
may be well over 15,000 but that it was "difficult to get news from
America under the present circumstances." The National Security Agency's
National Information Warfare Center in Fort Meade, Maryland, reported that
the identities of several overseas hackers had been passed to their
respective governments for possible prosecution under U.S. law under the
mutual law enforcement and extradition provisions of the IIDA. Scotland
Yard said it had arrested 17 intruders in the greater London area while
Europol was preparing to make several arrests in France, Italy, and
Austria.  At a press conference at the U.S. Embassy in London, Prime
Minister Tony Blair, upon leaving a cabinet meeting, said he was in close
communication with President Clinton during "this extraordinary emergency"
and that "he fully understood what the Americans were ordering him to do."

The government of Burma summarily executed 153 members of the Rangoon
Computer Club. In Ottawa, the RCMP said  the FBI's Canada Law Enforcement
Extension Task Force was investigating several groups in Montreal,
Halifax, and Vancouver and expected to make a large number of arrests
"soon." The RCMP official admitted that, "because we do not normally get
involved in FBI matters on Canadian soil, I cannot give you precise
details about the operation."
        

If convicted, the arrested hackers face a maximum penalty of 25
years in prison and/or a $200,000 fine. Freeh said that he anticipated
further arrests would be made as federal investigators sifted through more
communications records, America On Line profiles, and escrowed encryption
keys. The stored keys are used by federal agents to read scrambled e-mail
messages sent by hackers and the 12 independent special counsels
investigating the administration.
        
Vice President Gore issued a statement in which he said, "I praise
the valiant efforts of our federal investigators in isolating and
terminating the disruptive actions of individuals and groups who were bent
on interfering with our precious national information thoroughfares." Gore
said he hoped the government's action would "send a clear signal to others
who believe that such activities will go unpunished. The government has a
controlling legal authority to address these threats." Gore, an announced
candidate for president in 2000, said one of his first acts would be to
create a Secretary of Information cabinet post that would regulate the use
of electronic information throughout the country. "Just as we created a
Department of Defense in 1947 to confront the nuclear threat, we must have
a Department of Information in 2001 to face the millennial cyber threat,"
Gore declared.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Dave Emery 
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 18:29:04 -0800 (PST)
To: Markus Kuhn 
Subject: Re: EU plans decryption ban
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <19980309212946.23723@die.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Mon, Mar 09, 1998 at 11:26:15PM +0000, Markus Kuhn wrote:
> After government attempts to ban unrestricted encryption, we are
> now facing a decryption ban
> 
> Industry lobbyist groups have managed to persuade the European
> Commission to introduce rather radical new legislation for protecting
> pay-TV broadcasters against unauthorized reception by consumers. Not
> only the commercial advertising and sale of pirate devices is to be
> prohibited (this has already been the case in a number of member
> countries and is perfectly acceptable), but also the private possession or
> use of clone decoders as well as any private exchange of information about
> the security properties of pay-TV encryption systems will become illegal
> and punishable under the planned EU conditional access directive. 
> 
	In the US there is not yet a ban on exchange of information
because of the potential first amendment issues, but there are (and have
been since the late 1980s)  felony level bans with $500,000 fines for
each incident  on the manufacture, assembly, modification, import,
export, sale and distribution of any device or equipment primarily of
assistance in the unauthorized decryption of satellite cable programming
or direct to home satellite.

	And unauthorized interception of radio signals including satellite
video transmissions that are scrambled or encrypted can be prosecuted
under current law as a felony.



-- 
	Dave Emery N1PRE,  die@die.com  DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass. 
PGP fingerprint = 2047/4D7B08D1 DE 6E E1 CC 1F 1D 96 E2  5D 27 BD B0 24 88 C3 18





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: andrew fabbro 
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 18:48:43 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Wu-Tang Clan cypherpunk reference
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


"Watch for the wooden soldiers, C-cypher punks couldn't hold us"
	-- "Triumph," Wu-Tang Clan, -Wu-Tang Forever-

This is listed on the Wu-Tang Clan's home page (www.wu-tang.com), so
presumably the lyric is accurate.  Anyone know what the reference is?


-- 
 Andrew Fabbro   [afabbro@umich.edu]   [andrewf@jesuswept.com]
 http://www-personal.umich.edu/~afabbro/          313.647.2713 
 "We make money the old fashion way. We print it." - DigiCrime





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: filaman@blrg.tds.net
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 04:33:47 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: Do you have a Bulk E Mail Program?
Message-ID: <199803101233.EAA12335@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Regarding Daily Ministry Messages

According to Research 50 percent of the U.S. population, or 135 
million people, will communicate by email by 2001 and 30 million 
use email now. 

You can fully test a Free working version of a fine established 
professional bulk e mail program that both sends and collects.  
You can market your product to millions without .32 cent postage 
stamps required. A million letters would cost you $320,000 just 
in stamps, plus the time to stuff and address.  
Bill Gates owner of Microsoft says their will only be two types 
of businesses by the year 2000. Those that use E Mail and those 
that went out of business. 
Give us a try, e mail is the coming thing and I believe you will 
be pleasently suprised. It's a great tool for daily ministry 
messages.  The product is also free for 10 days so you can 
download at this site and test it. 
Check out this website, just click on 

http://www.mymlm.com/aardvark/home.htm   

or type it in the heading of your Web Browser and touch enter.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 04:20:53 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: BATFC -- Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Cryptography
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980310122240.006c38bc@pop.pipeline.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Tim's and Michael's exchanges (with others) are most welcome,
and constructively return us again to the most compelling aspect
of the encryption debate, the contest between law and technology,
one that has impact far beyond cryptography.

There are examples of the application of law to control of technology
in the President's most recent update of "The National Emergency 
Caused by the Lapse of the Export Administration Act of 1979":

   http://jya.com/hd105-191.htm

It recounts the activities of the Commerce Department -- mainly BXA --
for the latest 6-month reporting period, and lists as well the cases of 
penalties imposed for export violations. 

Some of these have been imposed for alleged violations over 6 years 
past. They exemplify what Tim and Michael are discussing of the 
various ways the regulations and laws are imposed according to 
policy shifts and wind direction of politicians. 

The report describes the beef up of BXA enforcement programs, 
and increasing coordination with and training of other countries for 
export enforcement.

All justified by a "national emergency" for which the underlying law
to control technology long ago lapsed. The lapse appears to be
a deliberate way to avoid having to define ahead of time what
technology is to be controlled in order that ad hoc policy and
regulations can be devised to fit, deal by deal.

This parallels the increase in indecipherable grand jury proceedings, 
plea bargainings and parole conditions, determined by protected
government employees. These, to be sure, appear to be close 
cousins of the bloated features of legacy technologies, civilian
and military.

It worth noting that Microsoft and the Justice Department are perfect 
twins of technology and law monopolies, using brute force and 
contracts to get their way, both clothed in self-righteousness and
both led by charming weirdos, both totally obsessed with each their 
own mad view of law and technology in the "public interest."

Still, there's some public benefit that these disputes are white collar
and not homicidal/suicidal battles of NBC warfare, at least not yet 
here at home.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: mscompia@microsoft.com
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 07:30:26 -0800 (PST)
To: CYPHERPUNKS@TOAD.COM
Subject: Information From The Microsoft Personal Information Center
Message-ID: <0108d4829150a38UPIMSSMTPSYS08@msn.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Here is your password you requested from the Microsoft Personal Information Center at http://register.microsoft.com/regwiz/personalinfo.asp.

Password: cypherpunks

If you continue to have access problems or want to report other issues, please contact us through the Write Us button at the top of any Microsoft page.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 07:07:43 -0800 (PST)
To: Rabid Wombat 
Subject: Re: The Filth Dogman of the Surveillance Apocalypse
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199803101507.KAA11013@users.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Boundary..3990.1071713781.multipart/signed"

--Boundary..3990.1071713781.multipart/signed
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In , on 03/09/98

   at 06:32 AM, Rabid Wombat  said:



>Toto needs to study the bat book.

>On Mon, 9 Mar 1998, Wilhelm Geiger III wrote:

>> * In August, two cities debated plans to reduce the amount of dog
>> poop in municipal parks and on sidewalks.  The city of

Wow a TOTOgram with my name on it. Next thing you know I'll start getting
ascii art from Dimitri :)

-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/esecure.html                        
---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: Windows NT: From the makers of Windows 3.1!


--Boundary..3990.1071713781.multipart/signed
Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="pgp00001.pgp"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="pgp00001.pgp"
Content-Description: "PGP signature"

LS0tLS1CRUdJTiBQR1AgTUVTU0FHRS0tLS0tClZlcnNpb246IDIuNi4zYS1z
aGExCkNvbW1lbnQ6IFJlZ2lzdGVyZWRfVXNlcl9FLVNlY3VyZV92MS4xYjFf
RVMwMDAwMDAKCmlRQ1ZBd1VBTlFWSmxvOUNvMW4rYUxoaEFRRkk1QVArT0V6
SGtyeGJLWDNOMlltbDNreFZFT3c2M2tjRTVURHEKMFhaelN2R2NBL2hJaXky
MFZDbC9yOHczUEh5S3V3MStDRU9CS3BLUGRSS2JoQ21wZnFIZ3N1bm1QOEZD
L2dhawpvRFdzS0NyVzAxRlZyRXBLaTFRNjhyRkpQUGt2R2JlS1pQNXd6eWdE
MFYzeUlQVXBnd0RGSlhQZ2lwWWxyS3VJCjhLTGZMQmwwRHZrPQo9R2FYMQot
LS0tLUVORCBQR1AgTUVTU0FHRS0tLS0t
--Boundary..3990.1071713781.multipart/signed--



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 09:58:17 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Sun vs. FUD: Elvis is waiting;   Sun puts high-strength encryption software aside
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980310095810.007a0100@otc.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




http://dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/technology/wired/story.html?s=n/reuters
/980310/wired/stories/sun_4.html



Tuesday March 10 9:58 AM EST 

  Sun puts high-strength encryption software aside

  SAN FRANCISCO (Wired) - Sun Microsystems, which had hoped to market
high-strength encryption software developed by a Russian firm, has put the
plans
  on hold due to ongoing scrutiny by the US Commerce Department, the Wall
Street Journal reported Monday. 

  The software, partially based on a Sun security protocol, was developed
by a Moscow company called Elvis+, a firm started by former Soviet space
scientists in
  which Sun now owns a 10 percent stake. 

  The deal attracted widespread attention because it appeared to give Sun a
way around the Clinton administration's regulation of strong-crypto exports. 

  Sun contended the Elvis+ products fall outside the purview of US
government policy. The administration has been reviewing the deal for nine
months now. 

  Sun executives, who had hoped to put the encryption software on the
market last August, have shelved the plans for the moment, but they remain
hopeful, the
  Journal reported. 

------------------------------------------------------------
      David Honig                   Orbit Technology
     honig@otc.net                  Intaanetto Jigyoubu

"I do believe that where there is a choice only between cowardice and
    violence, I would advise violence." Mahatma Gandhi








	















From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 12:00:48 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Congressbastards getting a clue
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980310120048.007b43b0@otc.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



http://allpolitics.com/1998/03/10/ap/mcdermott.lawsuit/

Summary: 

History: Florida couple taped some Congressmen (including Gingrich) talking
on their cellphones.
	  Gives the tape to another Congressman A, who passes it on to the press.
	  Florida couple has been convicted.  

News: Now one of the taped Congressmen is suing the Congressman who leaked
the tape.

When will they learn?  Mathematics >> law


------------------------------------------------------------
      David Honig                   Orbit Technology
     honig@otc.net                  Intaanetto Jigyoubu

"I do believe that where there is a choice only between cowardice and
    violence, I would advise violence." Mahatma Gandhi








	















From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Weld Pond 
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 10:23:53 -0800 (PST)
To: Dave Emery 
Subject: Re: EU plans decryption ban
In-Reply-To: <19980309212946.23723@die.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Mon, 9 Mar 1998, Dave Emery wrote:

> 	In the US there is not yet a ban on exchange of information
> because of the potential first amendment issues, but there are (and have
> been since the late 1980s)  felony level bans with $500,000 fines for
> each incident  on the manufacture, assembly, modification, import,
> export, sale and distribution of any device or equipment primarily of
> assistance in the unauthorized decryption of satellite cable programming
> or direct to home satellite.

There is a law in Pennsylvania that bans the distribution of "plans or
instructions" for devices or modifications of devices that can be used for
theft of services. Full text at:

http://moose.erie.net/~italo/sb0655p0687.html

Excerpt:

    10         (2)  sells, possesses, distributes, gives or otherwise
    11     transfers to another[,] or offers, promotes or advertises for
    12     sale [any instrument, apparatus, equipment or device
    13     described in paragraph (1) of this subsection,] any:
    14             (i)  unlawful telecommunication device, or plans or
    15         instructions for making or assembling the same, under
    16         circumstances evidencing an intent to use or employ such
    17         [instrument, apparatus, equipment or] unlawful
    18         telecommunication device, or to allow the same to be used
    19         or employed for a purpose described in paragraph (1) [of
    20         this subsection], or knowing or having reason to believe
    21         that the same is intended to be so used, or that the
    22         aforesaid plans or instructions are intended to be used
    23         for making or assembling such [instrument, apparatus,
    24         equipment or device.] unlawful telecommunication device;
    25         or

At the L0pht we distribute a CD that contains plenty of technical data
for modifying telecommunications equipment and for building your own from
easily obtained parts.  We do not ship our CD to Pennsylvania due to this
law since we cannot be assured that the intent of the purchaser is not to
defraud a telecommunication service provider.  Since information can be
used for good or bad we are pretty sure that some of the purchasers from
Penn will use this information illegally.  This goes against everything
the L0pht stands for but we do not have the resources to fight this in
court.


Weld Pond
weld@l0pht.com
http://www.l0pht.com/~weld





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 19:01:32 -0800 (PST)
To: wire@monkey-boy.com
Subject: do it to them.  they deseve it.
Message-ID: <3505FE5F.6521@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Tuesesday March 10, 1998 3/10/98

E-mail Federico.F.Pena@hq.doe.gov and mail

Federico F. Pena
The Secretary of Energy
United States Department of Energy
Washington, D.C. 20585

Dear Secretary Pena:

Purpose of this letter is to appeal a denial of a Freedom of 
Information Act (FOIA) Request.

I wrote on Tuesday February 17, 1999 15:11

  e-mail and mail

  Ms. Elva Barfield
  Freedom of Information Office
  U. S. Department of Energy
  Albuquerque Operations Office/OIEA
  POB 5400
  Albuquerque, NM 87185-5400
  EBARFIELD@DOEAL.GOV

  Dear Ms. Barfield:

  VP Al Gore is in the crypto business.

    Information SuperSpyWay 
    Al Gore Approved
    Encryption for China
    in Return for
    Campaign Donations
    by Charles R. Smith

  Portions of the above document posted on Internet at 
  http://www.us.net/softwar/ and  http://www.aci.net/kalliste/ 
  states

  1.	Gore charged with encryption policy according to PDD-5 and 
              PRD-27 on April 16, 1993. 

  2.	Government officials represent themselves on Al Gore's behalf for 
        RSA patent purchase negotiations in Feb. 1994. 
  3.	RSA chairman Bidzos meets with Chinese officials at the same 
        time as Ron Brown in Oct. 1995. 

  4.	RSA Chairman Bidzos enters into merger negotiations with Security 
	Dynamics, a company backed by Sanford Robertson, in Nov. 1995. 

  5.	VP Gore calls Sanford Robertson from the White House for a 
        donation in Nov. 1995. 

  6.	Robertson delivers $100,000 donation ($80,000 soft - $20,000 
	directly into the Clinton/Gore campaign) in Jan. 1996. 
  7.	RSA signs deal with China in Feb. 1996. The administration 
	previously prosecuted similar deals but this time does nothing. 
  8.	Justice Dept. approves RSA merger with Security Dynamics in 
	April 1996 for $280 million dollars, netting Sanford Robertson's 
	company a cool $2 million just to write the deal. 

  In 1991 I was in involved with Sandia National Laboratories
  Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty seismic data authenticator.

  At that time Sandia director Tommy A Sellers had assumed 
  responsibility for directorship from Robert Clem.

  Sandia supervisor Tom Wright replaced my supervisor, John Holovka, 
  who was the supervisor for the CTBT seismic data authenticator.

  Wright brought in Ph.D. Steven Goldsmith to supervise me.

  Sellars, Wright, and Goldsmith were new to crypto-type projects.

  Much of this is documented at http://www.jya.com/whp021598.htm.

  This is evidenced by Sellar's attached SEP 24 1991 memorandum,
  which Goldsmith help author, addressed to Dr James J Hearn at 
  the National Security Agency.

  The SEP 24 memorandum contained a number of technical errors.

  I corrected these errors in my attached December 20, 1991 memorandum.

  Department of Energy and it predecessors have a well-documented
  history of not requiring technical expertise for pursuit of interests.

  Stewart Udall, The Myths of August, writes,

      Any cover-up must be implemented and enforced by designated
    agents, and one man emerged in 1953 as the quarterback of the 
    AEC's damage-control effort.  His name was Gordon Dunning.
    Although the personnel charts of the 1950s list him as a low-level 
    "rad-safe" official in the Division of Biology and
Medicine,           
    documents demonstrate that he was clothed with authority to    
    manage and suppress information about the radiation released
    by the testing of nuclear weapons. ...

  About the time Sellers and Sandia Ombudsman gave me a directed
  transfer to break electronic locks for the FBI/ERF [engineering
  research facility], Goldsmith and Wright, certainly with the approval
  of Sellers, placed a contract with RSA Inc [http://www.rsa.com/], 
  I was told.

  Ms Barfield, we think the American public needs to know more about
  RSA's work with Sandia National Laboratories.

  Therefore, Under the provision of the Freedom of Information Act, 
  5 USC 552, I am requesting access to: 

    1 ALL purchase requisitions, including any attached statement of
       work, issued by Sandia National Laboratories, Los Alamos     
       National Laboratories, or DOE/ALOO between January 1, 1991
       and February 17, 1998 to RSA Inc.

    2  Copies of all invoices from RSA Inc received by Sandia National   
        Laboratories, Los Alamos National Laboratories, or DOE/ALOO 
        between January 1, 1991  and February 17, 1998

  If there are any fees for searching for, or copying, the records 
  I have requested, please inform me before you fill the request.

  As you know, the Act permits you to reduce or waive the fees 
  when the release of the information is considered as "primarily 
  benefiting the public."  I believe that this requests fits that 
  category and I therefore ask that you waive any fees.

  Your office agreed to waive fees before.  This request is surely 
  of "public interest."

  December 13, 1994 DOE/AL FOIA officer Gwen Schreiner waived fees
  for the reason,

        "We have considered your request and have determined that
        release of the requested records is in the public interest,
        that disclosure of this information is likely to contribute
        significantly to public understanding of the operations or
        activities of the government, that you or the organization
        you represent have little or no commercial interest in the
        material contained in the records, that you or the
        organization you represent have the qualifications and
        ability to use and disseminate the information, and that the
        records are not currently in the public domain.  A waiver of
        fees is therefore granted."

  This waiver of fees was, undoubtedly, issued as a result of former
  Energy Secretary Hazel O'Leary's Openness initiative.

  Heart of America paid my way to hear Secretary O'Leary's celebrated
  whistleblower speech.

  If all or any part of this request is denied, please cite the 
  specific exemption(s) which you think justifies your refusal to 
  release the information and inform me of your agency's 
  administrative appeal procedures available to me under the law.

  I would appreciate your handling this request as quickly as 
  possible, and I look forward to hearing from you within 20 
  working days, as the law stipulates.

I received no response to the above FOIA. 

Therefore I appeal as a result of non-response.

As you may be aware

      (6)(A) Each agency, upon any request for records made under  
       paragraph (1), (2), or (3) of this subsection, shall--
            (i) determine within ten days \1\ (excepting
        Saturdays, Sundays, and legal public holidays) after
        the receipt of any such request whether to comply with
        such request and shall immediately notify the person
        making such request of such determination and the
        reasons therefor, and of the right of such person to
        appeal to the head of the agency any adverse
        determination; and

And you may also be aware

 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
      \1\ Under section 12(b) of the Electronic Freedom of Information
  Act Amendments of 1996 (Pub. L. 104-231; 110 Stat. 3054), the
amendment
  made by section 8(b) of such Act striking ``ten days'' and inserting
  ``20 days'' shall take effect on October 3, 1997.
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
            (ii) make a determination with respect to any
        appeal within twenty days (excepting Saturdays,
        Sundays, and legal public holidays) after the receipt
        of such appeal. If on appeal the denial of the request
        for records is in whole or in part upheld, the agency
        shall notify the person making such request of the
        provisions for judicial review of that determination
        under paragraph (4) of this subsection

So I expect a response to this appeal within the time allotted to you 
by law.

Much of this unfortunate matter is appearing on Internet.

 http://www.jya.com/whp021598.htm

 http://www.jya.com/cylinked.htm

 Letter from Bill Payne Regarding Cryptography at Sandia
 http://www.aci.net/kalliste/

 Crypto AG: The NSA's Trojan Whore?
 http://caq.com/CAQ/caq63/caq63madsen.html
  
 NSA, Crypto AG, and the Iraq-Iran War
 http://www.aci.net/kalliste/speccoll.htm

 How Secure is America's Nuclear Arsenal?
 http://www.aci.net/kalliste/nukearse.htm

And, of course, we continue to seek settlement.

Sincerely,



William H. Payne 
13015 Calle de Sandias 
Albuquerque, NM 87111






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 18:34:17 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: GoldMoney
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980311023614.006fd3d8@pop.pipeline.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


http://www.goldmoney.com/home.html

Essays on the future of money, electronic, digital and
"GoldMoney," based on US Patent No. 5,671,364

One or so cypherpunks referenced.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Brian B. Riley" 
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 19:03:07 -0800 (PST)
To: "John Young" 
Subject: Re: BATFC -- Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and  Cryptography
Message-ID: <199803110302.WAA08429@mx01.together.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On 3/10/98 7:22 AM, John Young (jya@pipeline.com)  passed this wisdom:

>It worth noting that Microsoft and the Justice Department are 
>perfect twins of technology and law monopolies, using brute force 
>and contracts to get their way, both clothed in self-righteousness 
>and both led by charming weirdos, both totally obsessed with each 
>their own mad view of law and technology in the "public interest."  

 John, would you really refer to Janet Reno as a 'charming weirdo'???? I 
can think of lost of names, epithets, and descriptions, but that surely 
would be far down my list.








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 19:43:14 -0800 (PST)
To: "Brian B. Riley" 
Subject: Re: BATFC -- Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and  Cryptography
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980311034505.007435fc@pop.pipeline.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Brian Riley wrote:
>On 3/10/98 7:22 AM, John Young (jya@pipeline.com)  passed this wisdom:

> John, would you really refer to Janet Reno as a 'charming weirdo'???? I 
>can think of lost of names, epithets, and descriptions, but that surely 
>would be far down my list.

Brian, that post was a feeble one-time attempt to write straight prose, 
uninflected, unaccusatory, undiabolical, un-nuts, un-understandable. 

It took days of agony to arrive at empty perfection, to say nothing with 
crystal clear aplomb, foreign policy piquant, transparent balderdash 
cover-up of bald-face lies delivered deadpan grammatically.

I been studying James Rubin's disarmingly weird repartee at the State 
Department press conferences. Today he asked a reporter to define 
"who's got the con"  for foreign policy. (Laughter, the transcript hooted.)

"Charming weirdo" is the Secretary of State's and Rubin's demonic 
auto-epithet for her, emulating homicidal Maggie Thatcher hiding her 
demure will to slaughter.

Swear to god this is the last time I'll try to ape well-mannered civil 
discourse. You got the con: It's too sicko wacko. Back to incoherent 
snarl of ignorant brutes chewing leg off for freedom.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Brian B. Riley" 
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 21:04:01 -0800 (PST)
To: "John Young" 
Subject: Re: BATFC -- Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and   Cryptography
Message-ID: <199803110503.AAA22078@mx02.together.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On 3/10/98 10:45 PM, John Young (jya@pipeline.com)  passed this wisdom:

>Brian Riley wrote:
>>On 3/10/98 7:22 AM, John Young (jya@pipeline.com)  passed this wisdom:
>
>> John, would you really refer to Janet Reno as a 'charming weirdo'???? I 
>>can think of lost of names, epithets, and descriptions, but that surely 
>>would be far down my list.
>
>Brian, that post was a feeble one-time attempt to write straight prose, 
>uninflected, unaccusatory, undiabolical, un-nuts, un-understandable. 
>
>It took days of agony to arrive at empty perfection, to say nothing with 
>crystal clear aplomb, foreign policy piquant, transparent balderdash 
>cover-up of bald-face lies delivered deadpan grammatically.
>
>I been studying James Rubin's disarmingly weird repartee at the State 
>Department press conferences. Today he asked a reporter to define 
>"who's got the con"  for foreign policy. (Laughter, the transcript hooted.)
>
>"Charming weirdo" is the Secretary of State's and Rubin's demonic 
>auto-epithet for her, emulating homicidal Maggie Thatcher hiding her 
>demure will to slaughter.
>
>Swear to god this is the last time I'll try to ape well-mannered civil 
>discourse. You got the con: It's too sicko wacko. Back to incoherent 
>snarl of ignorant brutes chewing leg off for freedom.

ROFLAAMAIBGFOT37thFOAOBDTADW:  rollin on floor laffing almost as
much as if Bill Gates fell out the 37th floor of an office building due
to a defective window.








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 18:40:53 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: CypherPunks -- The Early Years
Message-ID: <199803110240.DAA27478@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Eric Cordian wrote:
> 
> Might I ask why several prominent Cypherpunks have begun reposting
> "News of the Weird" through sympatico.ca?  Is this some sort of
> Pod thing?

 Close examination of fossil mosquitoes from 40 million
years ago show they look just about the same as that one
dining on your arm.

==============================================
LMBoyd Web Site / U. S. Newspapers / Start Email / Stop Email
http://www.LMBoyd.com/postscript.htm





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 20:42:56 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Dr. Dimentos Tentacles
Message-ID: <199803110442.FAA14173@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


bill.stewart@pobox.com wrote:
> 
> Guy --
> First you and Vulis flame each others, and then
> you start claiming that VZNuri's postings are really Vulis,
> and now you're claiming that postings from Toto's machines
> are really Vulis.  Perhaps *you're* really Vulis?

  Bill Frantz is *really* Vulis.
  Bill Stewart is *really* Toto.

  Both are charter members, along with Bill Clinton and Bill Gates,
of a secret society of people named Bill who plan to form a new
world government and declare the Buffalo Bills to be the real
Superbowl Champions by an act of legislation.

  I am truly amazed that a seemingly intelligent group of individuals
such as the CypherPunks cannot see the blatantly obvious connections
between the Bills and the TMs who are warring for control of our
minds.

--
Eric Michael Cordian 0+
O:.T:.O:.T:. Mathematical Munitions Division
"Forge What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: mscompia@microsoft.com
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 07:10:06 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Information From The Microsoft Personal Information Center
Message-ID: <042bf3409150b38UPIMSSMTPSYS08@msn.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Here is your password you requested from the Microsoft Personal Information Center at http://register.microsoft.com/regwiz/personalinfo.asp.

Password: cypherpunks

If you continue to have access problems or want to report other issues, please contact us through the Write Us button at the top of any Microsoft page.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 10:08:52 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: emailed prez. death threat conviction
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980311100833.007b1e20@otc.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


http://biz.yahoo.com/upi/98/03/11/general_news/usclinton_2.html
Wednesday March 11 5:39 AM EST 

Teen convicted of Clinton e-mail threats

MIDLAND, Mich., March 11 (UPI) _ A 17-year-old high school honors student
faces jail after being convicted of
sending e-mail death threats to President Clinton. 

Heidi Sullivan of Midland, Mich., was sentenced Tuesday to eight days in
jail and two years probation for sending
threats to the White House in January from a computer at Midland High School. 

Midland County Probation Officer Tom Adams says Sullivan could have
received 20 years for threatening the
president, but probably got the reduced sentence because of her family's
history.  [...]


.....................

In other news

			President Might Go Under Knife

                     WASHINGTON (AP) -- Sorry, Bill, it's for your own good.

                     After consulting with his proctologist -- and hearing
an appeal in favor of neutering from
                     actress Doris Day -- First Lady Hillary Clinton has
decided on the procedure for the President.

                     But the reluctant First Lady reserved the right to
change her mind. In announcing
                     Hillary's decision Tuesday, White House spokesman
Barry Toiv said Mrs. Clinton
                     was ``inclined'' to allow the procedure.

                     The National Organization of Women, the nation's
largest women's rights
                     group, applauded the First Lady's decision, saying she
was doing the right thing.

                     ``Neutering or spaying politicians is one of the most
important acts a
                     responsible society can take,'' said Martha Armstrong,
a society vice
                     president. ``It promotes better physical and
behavioral health,
                     and it helps to address the ubiquitous sexual
misconduct crises.''

                     Hillary set no immediate date for putting her husband
under the knife, leaving some to
                     wonder whether the 50 year old former Arkansas
governor has been told of
                     his fate.

                     ``Bill's a little too young to understand,'' Toiv said.

                     Indeed, the President seemed blissfully unaware of any
pending surgery as he played
                     fetch with Buddy, the first dog, on the South Lawn
with a green tennis ball Tuesday.

                     White House press secretary Mike McCurry said today
the procedure was ``not
                     likely anytime soon given the dispositions and pending
indictments.''

                     Toiv said Mrs. Clinton's decision was driven by
concerns for her husband's health. She
                     denied that it was motivated by the encounters Bill
has had with Socks the
                     family cat and various White House staff and interns.

                     Dr. Jacqueline Suarez, a proctologist with the
Alexandria (Va.) Army Hospital,
                     said neutering can help curb politicians' aggression
toward other politicians and tendency
                     to fornicate in unwelcome places.

                     ``Although, if we have people questioning if they
should or shouldn't, those health
                     reasons are good reasons to neuter as well, so we'll
use them as part of the case
                     for neutering,'' Suarez said.

                     Miss Day, president of the Doris Day Humanitarian
League, sent Clinton a letter in
                     December expressing concern that the nation would
suffer if he
                     were left intact. Among them was a risk of impeachment
in addition to 
		     testicular cancer and prostate infections that could lead to
problems with urination.

                     In January, McCurry said there were no plans to neuter
the President, who had moved
                     into the White House in 1993.

                     However, Clinton physician Connie Mariano has now told
Miss Day in a letter
                     that Mrs. Clinton had decided to neuter the president
on the advice of White House advisor
                     James Carville.

                     Armstrong said that politicians need not worry about
losing their procreative abilities.

                     ``Politicians don't have a real concept of identity or
ego.  Its all drive for power.
		      Neutering a politician or justice department official will not
change his basic personality,'' she said. 
		     ``They don't suffer any kind of emotional reaction or identity
crisis when neutered.''

                     Got that, Mr. President?


original at http://www.newsday.com/ap/rnmpwh1z.htm
------------------------------------------------------------
      David Honig                   Orbit Technology
     honig@otc.net                  Intaanetto Jigyoubu

Beat your algorithms into swords and your virtual machines into spears:
let the weak say, I am strong. 








	















From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Toto 
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 12:46:10 -0800 (PST)
To: "Brian B. Riley" 
Subject: Re: BATFC -- Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and   Cryptography
In-Reply-To: <199803110503.AAA22078@mx02.together.net>
Message-ID: <3506E85C.54D9@sk.sympatico.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Brian B. Riley wrote:
> 
> On 3/10/98 10:45 PM, John Young (jya@pipeline.com)  passed this wisdom:
> >Swear to god this is the last time I'll try to ape well-mannered civil
> >discourse. You got the con: It's too sicko wacko. Back to incoherent
> >snarl of ignorant brutes chewing leg off for freedom.
> 
> ROFLAAMAIBGFOT37thFOAOBDTADW:  rollin on floor laffing almost as
> much as if Bill Gates fell out the 37th floor of an office building due
> to a defective window.

Hey, asshole!
Thanks for telling *everyone* about our plan...
Now I have to contact Blanc Weber and Jeff Sandquist and tell
them we have to come up with a new scheme.
And *this* time, we're not telling *you* about it!

Otot
~~~~






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: cashout@ibm.net
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 03:51:45 -0800 (PST)
To: TVINFO@prodigy.net
Subject: PLEASE HELP US RETURN OVER $400 BILLION TO ITS RIGHTFUL OWNERS!
Message-ID: <199803111149.LAA17434@out5.ibm.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



There is over 400 BILLION DOLLARS IN UNCLAIMED money in North America.

We want to help return this money to its rightful owners! 

To do this we are launching a NATIONAL INFOMERCIAL ON TELEVISION.
 
We are looking for 300 INDEPENDENT AGENTS who will become a part of 
this infomercial.  NO SELLING IS REQUIRED!!!

Each Agent will own an exclusive territory and will receive a 
percentage of the money generated from the television informercial!  

Your involvement will be very finacially rewarding.  

Find out more about the opportunity and how you can get involved.      

Visit our website at http://www.link2web.net/owedmoney/money.html




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Brian B. Riley" 
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 12:50:39 -0800 (PST)
To: "Toto" 
Subject: Re: BATFC -- Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and   Cryptography
Message-ID: <199803112050.PAA29056@mx01.together.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On 3/11/98 2:39 PM, Toto (toto@sk.sympatico.ca)  passed this wisdom:

>Brian B. Riley wrote:
>> 
>> On 3/10/98 10:45 PM, John Young (jya@pipeline.com)  passed this wisdom:
>> >Swear to god this is the last time I'll try to ape well-mannered civil
>> >discourse. You got the con: It's too sicko wacko. Back to incoherent
>> >snarl of ignorant brutes chewing leg off for freedom.
>> 
>> ROFLAAMAIBGFOT37thFOAOBDTADW:  rollin on floor laffing almost as
>> much as if Bill Gates fell out the 37th floor of an office building due
>> to a defective window.
>
>Hey, asshole!
>Thanks for telling *everyone* about our plan...
>Now I have to contact Blanc Weber and Jeff Sandquist and tell
>them we have to come up with a new scheme.
>And *this* time, we're not telling *you* about it!
>
>Otot
>~~~~

 I guess I now can consider myself a part of the list. I am have 
officially and publically been called an asshole by Toto ... the waitng 
has been killing me!








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Dave Emery 
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 14:26:07 -0800 (PST)
To: "James A. Donald" 
Subject: Re: BATFC -- Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Cryptography
In-Reply-To: <199803111530.QAA12576@basement.replay.com>
Message-ID: <19980311172718.42774@die.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Wed, Mar 11, 1998 at 10:31:09AM -0800, James A. Donald wrote:
>     --
> 
> The Cato institute has done studies on comparative
> remuneration which shows approximately double the salaries,
> accompanied by vastly more security and power.
> 
> At the bottom end, bus drivers and prison guards, this is
> strikingly obvious.  A muni bus driver makes about as much as
> senior engineer in Silicon valley.
> 
	At the risk of an irrelevant and stupid digression from the topic
of the threat, Is this really true ?   The technical people I know who work
for the government seem to get salaries that would be low in industry
for someone with that background.

	And I'd be surprised that bus drivers out in silicon valley were
really making the $60-95K that ordinary senior engineers designing bus
drivers make around here (the NE).  If they are, they are getting lots
more than other municipal employees such as school teachers with masters
degrees. (In fact, I've heard that demand had recently driven salaries
in the valley way up and maybe my numbers for engineers are low,
especially for software engineers.)

	There is, of course, that nasty law that classifies engineers as
exempt professionals but  allows companies to treat them as just cannon
fodder workers stuffed into cubicles and treated with little of the
respect the term professional would suggest - to be forced to work large
amounts of completely uncompensated overtime. Bus drivers (non exempt)
do get paid for every minute they are on the job, and many times work
schedules are deliberately arranged to guarantee significant amounts of
overtime at time and a half, so many bus drivers actually make a
significant multiple of their nominal salary for the same hours
engineers get base salary and no more.

	But I do think that Prof. Froomkin is right that a lot of top
managers and legal types and others in government whose private sector
equivalents get huge salaries do work at a considerable loss.  Salaries
for top of the heap government employees such as judges and managers
of large departments with budgets in the tens or hundreds of millions
rarely get more than $150K, whereas similar people would get much
more in the private sector.

	Of course the job security differences are vast, and government
workers are one of the very few classes of workers left in the economy
who have any actual job security long term at all.

-- 
	Dave Emery N1PRE,  die@die.com  DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass. 
PGP fingerprint = 2047/4D7B08D1 DE 6E E1 CC 1F 1D 96 E2  5D 27 BD B0 24 88 C3 18





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: webmaster@sexlink.net
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 20:01:44 -0800 (PST)
To: Webmaster@sexlink.net
Subject: 5000 FREE Banner Ads For Joining
Message-ID: <<3.0.32.19980311142331.webmaster@sexlink.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Dave Emery 
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 14:47:00 -0800 (PST)
To: Declan McCullagh 
Subject: Re: [LEGAL] Crypto as Contraband?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <19980311174812.30010@die.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Sun, Mar 08, 1998 at 11:41:41PM -0500, Declan McCullagh wrote:

	Qouting worst proposal before congress...
> 
> LEGAL TO USE CRYPTO: "After January 31, 2000, it shall not be
> unlawful to use any encryption product purchased or in use prior to
> such date."
> 
> 

	At the risk of raising yet another stupid and silly issue, does
anybody know how this would apply to crypto (such as PGP) available in
source form ?   Would only binaries produced by compiling the source
before the cutoff date be legal ?  Or would compiling the source under a
new version of the OS or new OS or even new instruction set (ISA-64 on a
Merced for example) merely constitute reasonable use of the existing
source product ? How about mechanical translations of the object to
another environment or instruction set ?   And what level of patches,
bug fixes, or actual changes and improvements to the source would be
legal if it was legal to compile the source and use the resulting binary
after the cutoff ?  


-- 
	Dave Emery N1PRE,  die@die.com  DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass. 
PGP fingerprint = 2047/4D7B08D1 DE 6E E1 CC 1F 1D 96 E2  5D 27 BD B0 24 88 C3 18





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: dina_102@hotmail.com
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 15:38:04 -0800 (PST)
To: dina_102@hotmail.com
Subject: Subliminal Sex
Message-ID: <0000000000.AAA000@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Do you want to succeed at dating, or you just need a little spark to your
relationship or marriage?

Well here is the Answer for you!

Sensations(r), the new Compact Disc that  uses proven subliminal techniques to
increase your chances of SEXUAL success with the opposite sex.. Simply play it
and watch it work!!!!


What is Subliminal messaging? - "Subliminal perception is the registration of sensory input without
the conscious mind's awareness." 

*Proven Examples* - In 1957, a cinema executive named James Vicary reported to the press that he managed to
increase the sale of popcorn at a theatre by 58% by using subliminal messages embedded in a
film. 
The advertising industry claimed it had developed a whole new methodology which could
influence buying behavior in a predictable and controlled fashion. 

Our Titles - 
The original that started it all! Sensations(r) on CD is a collection of eight songs (45 min.) that sound
"new age." The tempo of each track is upbeat, sexy, romantic, and pleasing. Yet, each song has a
subliminal message built-in, masked by the sound of music. So, the conscious mind has nothing to
analyze or criticize.  CD only $29.95 

Do you want to be a winner?
If YES then call toll free 1-800-409-8302 ext. 1256

*TESTIMONIALS* -

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help me. I tried dating services, blind dates--you name it--to no avail. 

I bought Sensations(r) on CD and played it all day on the stereo in my office cubicle. Valerie, an
executive assistant that I was interested in, started to hang-out by my desk. When I asked her to
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Well, Valerie and I have been dating for over a month, and when I played Sensations(r) during our first
"romantic" evening at my place, I swore I'd never forget what that CD did for me. Thank you very
much! 
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                                                                                       Detroit, MI

Dear Sensations(r), 

I'd been seeing this lady for over three weeks and we never got beyond "third base."She had just
come from a relationship and she said she was nervous about sleeping with another man. 

I was patient long enough and really wanted to push things to the "next level." That's when I ordered
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Instead of me making the first move, she was all over me. Needless to say, I think Sensations(r) is a
"home run!" 
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                                                                                         Lodi, NJ



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bought your CD. It was the best $29.95 I ever spent! 
I was "lucky"with three girls already, after playing Sensations(r) for each of them on dates. Were they
turned-on by my clothes or how I smelled? I'm not kidding myself--it was Sensations that changed my
luck. Please let me know when the next volume of your CD comes out. I want it. 
                                                                                      Bob Theut.
                                                                                     Dayton, OH

If you have any questions or will like to order Sensations please call 1-800-409-8302 ext.1256
  








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 17:07:17 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: House of Commons Library on US Sigint in Europe
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980312010926.0072ccec@pop.pipeline.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Simon Hossack has sent us a copy of a letter to Oliver Heald 
MP (UK) from the House of Commons Library on US signals 
intelligence in Europe, with focus on Menwith Hill. It is an answer 
to Mr. Heald's request for information on the charge of US 
spying in the STOA report as described by Duncan Campbell 
and Nicky Hager.

The letter documents successive parlimentary and journalistic 
inquiries about the USA/UK 50-years-long arrangement for joint 
intelligence and HMG's answers.

   http://jya.com/hoc-ussigint.htm






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "yoji fujita" 
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 05:26:05 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <000a01bd4cf1$244876c0$563582d2@fwhc6895>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 22:58:43 -0800 (PST)
To: cryptography@c2.net
Subject: ANNOUNCE: March Bay Area Cypherpunks Meeting Saturday March 14, 12-6pm
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980311225235.0089c660@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


The March Bay Area Cypherpunks meeting will be held
Saturday, March 14th, at Network Associates in Menlo Park.
Time - 12 noon hang out, 1-5 program, followed by dinner nearby, various evening parties

Agenda:
	Ian Goldberg's HINDE algorithm
	Reports from FC98 Anguilla Financial Cryptography conference
	Reports from Computers, Freedom, and Privacy CFP 98
	Open PGP status discussion
	Work in progress

Location:
	Network Associates, Inc
	Total Network Security division (formerly PGP, Inc)
	4500 Bohannon Drive, Menlo Park

Directions to NAI:

Take 101 (from North or South)
Exit at "Marsh Road/Atherton"
Go West (young man) off exit (right exit lane coming south from SF).
Turning to the West (away from the Bay / freeway)
Get in Left lane immediately.
Turn Left at very first light (Scott Drive, not far from freeway exit)
 (landmark: Shell gas station is on your right as you turn left)
Go South on Scott ~2/3 mi (parallel to 101 freeway fence).
Pass one Stop sign (do not turn yet).
 (landmark: Sun Microsystems has an office on the right)
Scott curves to right, becomes Bohannon Drive.
Turn left into first driveway: "Menlo Oak" Business Park
Go straight through parking lot ~2-300 yds
Curve 270 degrees around Fountain (effective left turn)
#4500 is on left as you curve around fountain.
Go down ~50 yds to main lobby entrance (south side of building).

Ask reception for Dave Del Torto (call 415.730.3583 cel if any problem).
Meeting room is behind reception area through first door on left.

Known or Suspected Parties:

Sandy's Masquerade in or near Oakland
PENSFA at Jim & Heather's in Campbell
"It's Green" filk-oriented potluck in San Jose (afternoon/evening)

				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: richardh@cwsredlands.com
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 23:03:37 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: San Bernardino... New Technology !!
Message-ID: <199803120703.XAA18282@cygint.cygnus.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hello  

A major business announcement will take place in San Bernardino, California 
this week !!!  If you have ever wanted to be on the INSIDE when such an 
event was about to occur, E-mail me back for complete details.  

Once you know what is happening, YOU WILL want to be IN ON IT, even 
if you can't be there !!!  

Hit reply, and put "insider details" in the subject line.

Thank you & take care, Richard







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 15:24:19 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Only In Anonymous...
Message-ID: <199803112324.AAA16722@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Anonymous wrote:
> 
> There's nothing wrong with satire, but people ought to mark it as such,
> when posting to a list filled with weak-minded and ideologically
> blinded individuals. 

  I've long said the same thing about the purported 'news' stories
carried by the mainstream press, but the replies I have received from
the news giants merely state that their office gang all had a good
laugh over my 'satire'.
  Until the mainstream press begins marking their articles with such
labels/disclaimers as 'half-truth'/'politically-biased'/'government-
handout'/'self-serving'/'total-bullshit', etc., then I see no reason
to require such labeling by individual netizens who may well be doing
nothing more than writing the news of the near-future.

You go cut wood, carry water--chop, chop, splash, splash...

ZenRacistMonger





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 07:58:29 -0800 (PST)
To: newshour@pbs.org
Subject: distribution
Message-ID: <35080491.A41@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Thursday 3/12/98 7:34 AM

Certified - Return Receipt Requested

Cynthia McKinney

124 Cannon Building
Washington, DC 20515
Office: (202)225-1605
Fax: (202)226-0691
http://www.house.gov/mckinney/

Dear Representative McKinney:

PURPOSE of this letter is to ask your help for us to obtain copes of 
docket sheets from the Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals for cases 
No. 94-2205, Payne v Sandia and 95-2204, Morales v Sandia.

All of our legal efforts to obtain these documents, which any citizen
has a right to, have failed.

REASON you are selected to help is that you appear to be knowledgeable
about operation of the current US federal government and willing to
speak 
out in an attempt to solve problems.

You appeared Friday February 27, 1998 on  PBS, The NewsHour with Jim 
Lehrer, along with senators Campbell, Hollings, Lott, Shelby Robb and 
representatives Dana Rohrabacher and Harold Rogers.

These senators and congressmen appeared not to support your views
because
they are either mis- or not well-informed about US involvement in
support 
of Saddam Hussein.

Stories supporting your view appear on Internet at

  NSA, Crypto AG, and the Iraq-Iran Conflict by J. Orlin Grabbe
  http://www.aci.net/kalliste/speccoll.htm

and

 Crypto AG: The NSA's Trojan Whore? by Wayne Madsen
 http://caq.com/CAQ/caq63/caq63madsen.html

Madsen begins

   It may be the greatest intelligence scam of the century:
   For decades, the US has routinely intercepted and
   deciphered top secret encrypted messages of 120
   countries

But NSA , and as a result the US federal government, apparnetly 
got caught involved in complicity of deaths of about 500,000 Iranians.

This is the subject of a Federal lawsuit seen on Internet at

   http://jya.com/whpfiles.htm
  
US federal government help of Iraq during the Iraq-Iran war may 
possibly backfire on innocent US citizens.

The Wall Street Journal, March 10, 1998, pp. B1, B9. reports

   A Peek Inside a Giant Germ Warehouse 

   By Rochelle Sharpe

   Rockville, Md. -- They keep anthrax bacteria in the
   basement of a faded red-brick building here.

   It isn't far from the yellow-fever virus, the botulism
   bacteria and some of the hundreds of organisms that cause
   the common cold. In fact, there are samples of 85,000
   different fungi, viruses, cells, genes and bacteria here at
   the American Type Culture Collection, by far the largest of
   the 450 repositories of biological materials scattered
   around the globe. ...

   The ATCC legally shipped 10 vials of anthrax, botulism and
   other deadly substances to Iraqi scientists in the 1980s --
   when the U.S. and Iraq were on much friendlier terms -- all
   with the Commerce Department's approval. ...

   http://www.jya.com/btn031198.txt

The US federal government apparently intended these bioweapons to 
be used against the people of Iran.

You demonstrated on PBS TV a quality identified by Francis Bacon

         The contemplation of things as they are,
                without error or confusion,
            without substitution or imposture,
   is in itself a nobler thing than a whole harvest of invention.

by your statement about Saddam Hussein on PBS

                ...our man and our creation...

Perhaps after reading the above materials and

   The Problem of Paradigm Shifts - Terrorism and the 
   Threat From Weapons of Mass Destruction in the Middle East
   Working Draft Anthony H. Cordesman, Senior Fellow and 
   Co-Director Middle East Studies Program October 22, 1996

  http://www.csis.org/mideast/terror.html

senators Campbell, Hollings, Lott, Shelby, Robb and representatives 
Dana Rohrabacher and Harold Rogers MAY NOW understand why you are 
correct and they are mis- or not well-informed about US involvement 
with Saddam Hussein.

PROBLEM we face with the US court system is that court clerks and judges
have committed Title 18 felony violation of law IN WRITING in an attempt
to deny us monetary compensation due us for the cases WE WON at the 
Tenth Circuit on Appeal.  

But judges awarded victories to the US federal government in violation 
of Federal Rules of Appellate Procedure.

Cases  No. 94-2205, Payne v Sandia and 95-2204, Morales v Sandia 
were both won pro se on appeal.

We have filed a writ of mandamus with supreme court judge 
Scalia in an  attempt to get the docket sheets for the two above 
cases.

But Scalia will not answer our certified letters.

Senator McCain wrote Payne on December 23, 1997

  I wanted to take this opportunity of than you for you letter of 
  December 3, 1997. 

  Your situation is in the jurisdiction of Senator Pete Dominici.  
  Therefore, I have  forwarded you letter to his attention.

  William, I hope you situation can be resolved favorably.

Lawyers and politicians Dominici and Bingaman are part of a 
problem not a solution.

Dominici and Bingaman have the following agenda

  University of New Mexico Bureau for Business and Economic
  Research reported on October 14, 1997: 

  A  The Gross State Product of New Mexico is $37.8 billion.

  B  The US Federal government sends $11.3 billion to New Mexico
      each year.

  C  For each $1 New Mexico sends to Washington, New Mexico gets 
      $2 back.

THEREFORE, Representative McKinney, we ask your help to get copies
of the docket sheets.

Citizens of the US are becoming more upset with the behavior of 
bureaucrats, the courts [lawyers], and the US federal government. 

Some Americans have no other way to express their dissatisfaction
with US federal government mismanagement of our country except
by violence.

Frederick Douglass either wrote or said on  August 4, 1847

          Those who profess to favor freedom,
            and yet depreciate agitation
   are men who want crops without plowing up the ground.
      They want rain without thunder and lightening.
         Power concedes nothing without a demand.
            It never did, and it never will.
       Find out just what people will submit to
        and you have found out the exact amount
  of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them.
      These will continue until they are resisted
        with either words or blows, or with both.
          The limits of tyrants are prescribed
       by the endurance of those whom they oppress.

We chose to use the words and law to hold government 
employees accountable.

Please encourage Scalia to do his job. 

Help get us copies of the docket sheets.  

And even perhaps help investigate further and settle this 
American tragedy.


Sincerely,



Arthur R. Morales                William H. Payne
1023 Los  Arboles NW             13015 Calle de Sandias NE
Albuquerque, NM 87107            Albuquerque, NM 87111

Enclosures
1  NSA, Crypto AG, and the Iraq-Iran Conflict by J. Orlin Grabbe
2  Crypto AG: The NSA's Trojan Whore? by Wayne Madsen
3  Swiss Radio International Audio tape, 15 May, 18 July 1994

Distribution
Ben Nighthorse Campbell
  administrator@campbell.senate.gov 
Ernest Hollings
  senator@hollings.senate.gov
Trent Lott
  senatorlott@lott.senate.gov
Richard Shelby
  senator@shelby.senate.gov 
Charles Robb
  Senator_Robb@robb.senate.gov
Jim Lehrer
  newshour@pbs.org






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Sandy Sandfort 
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 09:15:51 -0800 (PST)
To: Bill Stewart 
Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: March Bay Area Cypherpunks Meeting Saturday March 14, 12-6pm
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980311225235.0089c660@popd.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                          SANDY SANDFORT
 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

C'punks,

On Wed, 11 Mar 1998, Bill Stewart wrote:

> The March Bay Area Cypherpunks meeting will be held Saturday,
> March 14th...followed by dinner nearby, various evening parties
> ...Sandy's Masquerade in or near Oakland...

Guilty as charged, your Honor.  The invitation URL is at:

	http://www.c2.net/~sandy/98mar.htm

Be there or be a parallelogram with sides of equal length and
equal angles.


 S a n d y

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 05:56:50 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: FBI CALEA Rule for Electronic Surveillance
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980312135741.006f2a64@pop.pipeline.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


[Federal Register: March 12, 1998 (Volume 63, Number 48)]
[Page 12217-12310]

SUMMARY: The FBI is providing the Final Notice of the requirements for 
actual and maximum capacity for the interception of the content of 
communications and call-identifying information that telecommunications 
carriers may be required to effect to support law enforcement's 
electronic surveillance needs, as mandated in section 104 of the 
Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act (CALEA) 
(Public Law 103-414, 47 U.S.C. 1001-1010).

----------

For full copy:

   http://jya.com/fbi031298.txt  (685K)

Zipped version:

   http://jya.com/fbi031298.zip  (101K)






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ken Williams 
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 07:26:23 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Protection Commander 1.0
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



http://www.softcode.se/

Interesting....looks very unsecure though.

Ken Williams

/-| ORG: NC State Computer Science Dept  VP of The E.H.A.P. Corp.   |-\
|   EML: jkwilli2@adm.csc.ncsu.edu       ehap@hackers.com             |
|   WWW: http://www4.ncsu.edu/~jkwilli2/ http://www.hackers.com/ehap/ |
|   PGP: http://www4.ncsu.edu/~jkwilli2/pubkey                        |
\-| Chief weapons of UNIX:  Fear, surprise and ruthless efficiency. |-/







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ken Williams 
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 13:41:06 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: new on Peacefire: TracerLock search monitor service (fwd)
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Ken Williams

/-| ORG: NC State Computer Science Dept  VP of The E.H.A.P. Corp.   |-\
|   EML: jkwilli2@adm.csc.ncsu.edu       ehap@hackers.com             |
|   WWW: http://www4.ncsu.edu/~jkwilli2/ http://www.hackers.com/ehap/ |
|   PGP: http://www4.ncsu.edu/~jkwilli2/pubkey                        |
\-| Chief weapons of UNIX:  Fear, surprise and ruthless efficiency. |-/


---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 16:10:09 -0500
From: bennett@peacefire.org
To: peacefire-broadcast@vorlon.mit.edu
Subject: new on Peacefire: TracerLock search monitor service

[You are receiving this after signing up for membership in Peacefire at
http://www.peacefire.org/join/.  To unsubscribe yourself from this list and
cancel your Peacefire membership, see unsubscription instructions at the
end of this message.]

*******************************************************

"They set 'em up. We knock 'em down. And here we are again."

	-Emily Whitfield, national ACLU spokeswoman, on the
	Internet censorship bill recently passed in New Mexico

Even though the Communications Decency Act was struck down by the Supreme
Court in the summer of 1997, New Mexico has just passed their own statewide
version of the infamous Internet censorship law.  Senate Bill 127, recently
signed by the governor of New Mexico, makes it illegal to place information
"harmful to minors" on the Internet where a person under 18 would be able
to access it.  The EFF and the ACLU have said they will fight the law in
court; the ACLU has already won lawsuits to overturn similar laws in four
other states.

If you know someone living in New Mexico, or if you live in New Mexico, we
need your help!  Peacefire is creating a "civil disobedience" page for
Internet users to protest the New Mexico law.  By filling out a form on our
Web site, a user will be able to click a button and automatically send a
Bible verse that mentions sex, or an excerpt on birth control from the
plannedparenthood.org Web page, to a Peacefire member under 18 living in
New Mexico.  These are the type of materials that would violate the
Communications Decency Act and New Mexico's S.B. 127.  Although the
volunteer living in New Mexico can simply delete the messages as they
arrive, it will still count as an act of civil disobedience for the user to
fill out the form that causes the message to be transmitted.

Please help us find someone living in New Mexico who could volunteer to
receive the automatic e-mails and delete them.  The number of e-mails
should be small (less than 10 per day), and they will all have the same
identical subject line so they will be easy to recognize and delete.  (If
the number of e-mails grows beyond that, we can have several volunteers.)

More online coverage of the New Mexico law:
http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,19859,00.html

	-Bennett

---

To leave Peacefire and unsubscribe yourself from this list, send a message
to "majordomo@vorlon.mit.edu" with the message body:
        unsubscribe peacefire-broadcast
Please note that the only requirement for being a member of Peacefire is to
remain subscribed to peacefire-broadcast, but if you unsubscribe from this
list you will no longer be a member.

bennett@peacefire.org   (615) 421 6284   http://www.peacefire.org





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Cindy Cohn 
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 20:03:57 -0800 (PST)
To: bernstein-announce@toad.com
Subject: Senate Cmte to hear Testimony About Bernstein Case
Message-ID: <199803130338.TAA18807@gw.quake.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


The Senate Judiciary Committee's Subcommittee on the Constitution,
Federalism, and Property Rights will hear testimony from  Cindy Cohn, lead
counsel in the Bernstein case on March 17, 1997.  

The hearing, entitled "Privacy in the Digital Age: Encryption and Mandatory
Access," will begin at 10:00 a.m. in Room 226 of the Dirksen Senate Office
Building.  The Subcommittee is chaired by Senator John Ashcroft of Missouri.  

Ms. Cohn will discuss the Bernstein case as well as the inherent
constitutional problems raised by the proposals for domestic cryptography
controls.

This will be the first time that the Congressional committees considering
proposed cryptography legislation have heard testimony from those directly
involved in the legal challenges the current regulations.  

The government's appeal of the Bernstein case, which was argued on December
8, 1997, is still pending with the 9th Circuit.  A decision is expected in
the next few months.




******************************
Cindy A. Cohn, Cindy@McGlashan.com
McGlashan & Sarrail, P.C.
177 Bovet Road, 6th Floor
San Mateo, CA 94402
(650) 341-2585 (tel)
(650) 341-1395 (fax)





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Toto 
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 22:15:00 -0800 (PST)
To: JOC@pdx.oneworld.com
Subject: Re: get me off
In-Reply-To: <199803130345.TAA27091@iceberg.pdx.oneworld.com>
Message-ID: <3508CDBD.6150@sk.sympatico.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


JO COOPER wrote:
> I
> cannot get off

http://www.studiousanonymous.com/
Studios Anonymous - adult explicit site features: bestiality, 
transexuals, lesbians, young girls, gays, masturbaters,
cocksuckers, ass pounders, beautiful asses, huge tits, dogs, horses, 
chimps, cows.

> Thank you
You're welcome





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: remove 
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 10:11:07 -0800 (PST)
To: user@yahoo.com
Subject: 100% FREE SITE for ADULTS ONLY!
Message-ID: <8154564_58873704>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





*** REMOVAL instructions are located at the bottom of this email ***





This ADULT NEWS FLASH is intended for MATURE AUDIENCES ONLY!

Visit this year's ADULT PORN PRESS  "FREE ADULT SITE OF THE YEAR"

300+ FREE PICS!     
300+ FREE VIDEOS ROTATING DAILY!
HARDCORE PUZZLE GAMES AND MORE!

THIS NEW SITE IS 100% FREE, CUM NOW!

http://www.pinkxxx.com/CREAMERS/




Thank you for your support!

Suzie.














*** REMOVAL instructions ***


This mailing list is filtered through http://remove-list.com

As well, to be removed from our internal mailing list please
REPLY typing REMOVE in the SUBJECT BOX. 

You will NOT be emailed again about this matter. We represent
an ebusiness network of private adult entertainment organizations
trying to keep the word "FREE" a REALITY on this virtual world.

 






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 22:03:15 -0800 (PST)
To: Cypherpunks 
Subject: Fortify
Message-ID: <199803130603.HAA04734@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Tthe remarkably hackable nature of  Netscape's "weak" crypto has been marveled
at here and in the press, but has no one else speculated on how this state of
affairs came to be?  I, for one, would like to thank the anonymous cypherpunks
toiling in the bowels of Netscape.  An amazing feat, achieving world-wide
distribution of millions of copies of strong crypto, the Feds all unknowing.  
Does anyone here _not_ think this was the deliberate act of one or more
cryptoanarchists?





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "JO COOPER" 
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 19:46:33 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: get me off
Message-ID: <199803130345.TAA27091@iceberg.pdx.oneworld.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hello- ANYONE!!!
Please, my young son subscribed me to this -whatever you are- and I 
cannot get off- I do not want any e-mail from you.  Can I please get 
instructions as to how to stop this?
Thank you




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: lauke31@prodigy.com
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 23:12:16 -0800 (PST)
To: lauke31@prodigy.com
Subject: "Make your Mailbox an ATM Machine"
Message-ID: <19980313674HAA23717@post.erzwiss.uni-hamburg.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





 MAKE YOUR MAILBOX YOUR CASH ATM    
                        MACHINE!
                                                                              
           Immediately Make a Copy of this Letter, PRINT IT SAVE
           and READ again. I received this Letter 3 times before I decided
           to try it. I beat up on my self for not joining this group sooner

    ===Add your Name the our Mailing List and start Receiving Cash!===

Greetings:
Hopefully my name is still on the list below. I am a retired attorney and
 about two years ago, a man came to me with a letter. NOTE: This is not 
a chain letter. THIS SERVICE IS 100% LEGAL! (Refer to TITLE 18,
 Section 1302 & 1342 of the U.S. POSTAL and LOTTERY LAWS). 
The letter he brought me is basically the same letter you have in your 
hands. He asked me to verify the fact that this letter was legal to do. 
I told him I would review it and get back to him. When I first read the 
letter my client brought me, I thought it was some kind of off-the wall 
idea to make money. A week and a half later, we met in my office to 
discuss the issue. I told him to make a small change in the letter and it 
would be all right.

I was still curious about the letter, so he told me how it works. 
I thought it was a long shot, so I decided against participating, 
but before my client left, I asked him to keep me updated as to his
result. About two months later he called me to tell me HE HAD 
RECEIVED OVER $800,000.00 IN CASH. I didn't believe him, so 
he asked me to try his idea and find out for my self. I thought about it
for a couple days and decided I didn't really  have anything to lose, 
so I asked him for a copy of the letter.  I followed the instructions
exactly, mailed out 200 copies, and sure enough, the money started
arriving!  It came slowly at first, but after about three weeks, I was 
getting more mail  than I could open in a day. After about  three 
months the money stopped  coming. I KEPT PRECISE RECORDS 
OF THE EARNINGS AND AT THE END, IT TOTALED $868,494.00!

I was earning a good living as a lawyer, but anyone in the legal profession 
will tell you, there is a lot of stress that comes with the job. I told myself
 if  things  work out, I would retire from the practice and play golf. I
decided
to try the letter again, but this time I sent 500 letter out. Well, three
months 
later, I HAD TOTALED $2,344,178.00 ! I just couldn't believe it. I met my 
old client for lunch to find out how it worked. He told me there are quite a 
few similar letters going around. WHAT MAKES THIS ONE DIFFERENT
IS THE FACT THAT THERE ARE SEVEN NAMES INSTEAD OF FIVE 
LIKE MOST OTHERS.  That fact alone results in your name being on far 
more return. The other factor was the help I gave him in making sure the 
whole thing was  perfectly legal, since nobody wants to risk doing something 
illegal.

I'll bet by now you are curious to know what little change I told him to make.
Well, If you sent a letter like this out, to be legal, you need to actually
sell 
something if you expect to receive a DOLLAR. I told him anyone sending 
a dollar  back to him must receive something in return. So, when you send a
dollar to each  of the seven people on the list, you must include a slip of
paper 
with the words:  "Please put me on your mailing list", include your, name,
mailing address, e-mail optional... 

THIS IS THE KEY TO THE PROGRAM!!  THE ITEM YOU WILL RECEIVE
 FOR THE DOLLAR YOU SEND TO THE SEVEN NAMES IS YOUR NAME 
ON THEIR MARKETING LETTER AND THE RIGHT TO EARN THOUSANDS ! !


   Follow the simple instructions below exactly, & in less than three months,
    you will receive over $800,000.00 GUARANTEED!!!!!!!!

1. Immediately send $1.00 to each of the seven people on the list below, 
    wrap a dollar in a note saying, "Please add me to your mailing list" 
    and include your name, mailing address , optional e-mail address.

2. Remove the names in the #1 position on the list and move the rest of
     the names up one position. Then place your name in the #7 position.  
     This is best done by saving this to a text file and editing it yourself
     and saving the new edited copy. Or  typing a new list, (Only the names)
     taping or gluing over  the old ones.  Or by.  Be very careful when you type 
     the address and proof read them.

 
1. G. Paul, 314 Sidney Martin St., Lafayette, LA 70507
2. I.A. Goodspeed, 33080 Brockway St, Union City, CA 94587 
3. M. Alfred, P.O. Box 33366, San Antonio, Texas 78265
4. Ophelia Williams, 1250 E. Alexander St, Lafayette, LA 70501 
5. Ed.. Bronsc, 9824 South Western Avenue  #321, Evergreen Park, IL 60805
6. ABC Sales, 12541A South Western, Box 4, Blue Island, IL 60406
7. S. Andrews, 89 Park Street, Rear Building #2, Montclair, NJ  07042


3. When you have completed the instructions, you have the option of mailing 
    your New Letter out in two ways: (1) by e-mail or  (2)Through the 
    U.S. Postal Service.  Either way will bring big payoffs. This letter has
    been proven perfectly legal for both ways as long as you follow the above
    instructions, because you are purchasing membership in an exclusive 
    mailing list. 

To mail this out over the Internet,.  All you have to do is order several
hundred thousand e-mails from a provider like the one below. Also you can go to the
members directory in AOL and there you can collect thousands of names for 
free.  However, you will need a utility to collect these names from AOL. As 
a Member of AOL, go the Keyword, there is a free software utility under BPS 
software called Power tools. This will allow you to cut and paste e-mails .
 Remember it does not cost anything to mail on the Internet.  Or you can get 
a Mass Mail Network to mail it out in large  volumes for you.  We highly
recommend this one.  They always email more  than you purchase and their 
 address are fresh.  Mail this letter to them with your name and address in
the  Position # 7 above.  A good one to use is:

Global Frontiers Marketing
732-728-0064
They are fair and do a good job of mailing to lots of internet providers.

4. We have a Fresh List of AOL Email address ready to use. These  addresses 
    are downloaded weekly. 50,000 AOL E-mail addresses $7.50; 100,000/ $10.00
    you also get a Free Mailer with and order of 100,000 e-mails
    These addresses are on 3 .5  Disk.
          Ebran Marketing
          9824 South Western
          Suite 321
          Evergreen Park, IL 60805
5. If you are going to use the traditional U.S. Postal Service to do this 
     program, you will want to make copies of this letter at a copy center
      (kinkos copy service) and  order a minimum of  500 names (1000 is best)
       from a mailing list company.

Ebran Marketing, 9824 S. Western Ave, Suite 321, Evergreen Park, IL 60805
     500/ $15.00    1000/ $20.00

These two also have effective lists:
     Avon Distributors ~ P.O. Box B11 ~ Shelly, ID 83274 ~ (800) 992-3866
      DataLine ~ P.O.Box 7348 ~ Omaha, NE 68107 ~ (800)497-2912

(A) While waiting for you list to arrive, place your copies in envelopes, 
stamp, and seal them. DO NOT PUT YOUR RETURN ADDRESS ON
THE ENVELOPES! This will only pique the curiosity of the receiver.
 (B) When your mailing list arrives, place a label on each of your
envelopes and drop them in the mail box. Within 90 days, you will receive
over $800,000.00 in cash !!! * Keep a copy of this letter so you can use
 it a second time. Mail it out again in about six months but mail it to the
addresses you receive with each dollar. It will work again, only much better!

BE SURE TO MAIL $1.00 TO EACH OF THE NAMES ON THE LIST 
ABOVE.  INTEGRITY AND HONESTY WILL MAKE THIS PLAN WORK. 
And together WE WILL ALL PROSPER.

Here's how the system works: Assume for example you get a 7.5% return rate,
which is very conservative. My first attempt was about 9.5% and my second
was over 11%.
1.When you send out 200 letters, 15 people will send you $1.00 = $15.00 
2.Those 15 mail out 200 letters each and 225 people send $1.00 =$225.00
3.Those 225 mail out 200 letters each and 3,375 people send $1.00=$3,375.00
4.Those 3,375 mail out 200 letters each and 50,625 people send
$1.00=$50,625.00 
5.Those 50,625 mail out 200 letters each and 759,372 people send
$1.00=$759,372.00

At this point your name drops off the list...but so far you have 
received $813,612.00

It works every time, but how well depends on how many letters you send
out. In the example above, you mailed out 200 letters, if you had mailed
out 500 letters, you would have received over $2,00,017.
NOW, just think if you send out 50,000 to 100,000 e-mails and you only get
1.5 to a 3% response and each person responding send out another 50,000 to
100,000 with the 1.5 to 3% response.  Now you see you can easily reach the
$800,000 plus with little effort on your part. (Check the Math Yourself)

 With this kind of possible return, you have got to try it.Try it once and you
will do it again!!!!.  Just make sure you send a DOLLAR to each of the seven
 names on the list with a note to be added to their mailing list. Follow the
above
 instructions exactly, you will have SUCCESS!!!!!!

PS: You have read this far, so let me ask you one simple question:
     What do you have to loose?
     Just $7.00, but with a little effort on your part, you can gain over
$800,000

EVERYBODY ON THE LIST NEEDS EVERYBODY'S HELP. 

TRY IT NOW ! ! Place your name on our mailing List by sending your $1.00 
to each of the 7 names above today.

Within about 14 days you will need help counting your $1.00 bills


































Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 15:39:05 -0800 (PST)
To: (Recipient list suppressed)
Subject: Pauline Hanson hits Sydney
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980312222322.006f2648@mail.pronet.net.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Here is an excellent opportunity for Pauline Hanson supporters in New South
Wales to come meet and hear Australia's best known politician.

Pauline Hanson will be speaking on the failures of successive governments,
the dangers facing Australians and the urgent need for our country to change
direction and once again prioritise the needs of our people.

Tickets will be sold at the door at most venues. Enquiries should be
directed to One Nation Manly office - (02) 9976 0283

Her Sydney itinerary:

Today (13th March 1998) 

Speaking on Channel 9s Midday Show.

7.30pm Public meeting at AJC Club in Allison Road, Randwick 

Tomorrow (Saturday 14th March)

12 noon - Hawkesbury Sportsman's Club, Beaumont Ave North Richmond.
(NOTE: This is a luncheon also featuring 2GB Radio personality Brian Wiltshire)

7.30pm - Joan Sutherland Centre, High Str., Penrith

Sunday 15th March 

2pm - Cessnock Town Hall, Darwin Street, Cessnock

7.30pm - Dural Country Club, 662 Old Northern Road, DURAL

Monday 16th March

7.30pm Manly Warringah Leagues Club, Pittwater Road, Brookvale

Tuesday 17th March

7.30pm Wyong Multi-Function centre, Healey Str, Wyong

Show your support. BE THERE!

GWB


Scott Balson





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 09:45:30 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com>
Subject: Re: Fortify
In-Reply-To: <199803130603.HAA04734@basement.replay.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980313094123.007c6b40@otc.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 07:03 AM 3/13/98 +0100, Anonymous wrote:
>Tthe remarkably hackable nature of  Netscape's "weak" crypto has been
marveled
>at here and in the press, but has no one else speculated on how this state of
>affairs came to be?  I, for one, would like to thank the anonymous
cypherpunks
>toiling in the bowels of Netscape.  An amazing feat, achieving world-wide
>distribution of millions of copies of strong crypto, the Feds all
unknowing.  
>Does anyone here _not_ think this was the deliberate act of one or more
>cryptoanarchists?
>

Not to burst your optimism, but wouldn't good software design dictate
maintainable, ie, modifiable code?




------------------------------------------------------------
      David Honig                   Orbit Technology
     honig@otc.net                  Intaanetto Jigyoubu

Beat your algorithms into swords and your virtual machines into spears:
let the weak say, I am strong. 

Gosling deliver us from the ropes of backcompatability and mass production.









	















From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: mgraffam@mhv.net
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 11:14:36 -0800 (PST)
To: David Honig 
Subject: Re: Fortify
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980313094123.007c6b40@otc.net>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On Fri, 13 Mar 1998, David Honig wrote:
> Not to burst your optimism, but wouldn't good software design dictate
> maintainable, ie, modifiable code?

That depends on how you are using the term 'good.' If the purpose of the
design is to make a programmer's life easy, then you may be right. 

On the other hand, if the software calls for a bit of security, like
ns does, then I would assume otherwise. Programmers who are serious about
making crippleware don't distribute the full executable with a simple
branch instruction (going to the cripple routine) to keep the user at bay:
they know that it is trivial to modify the code. I would assume that 
the programmer's at netscape understand this. If they were serious about
keeping people from using 128 bit crypto, they would have yanked it
completely. 

Now, I don't think that this was done out of benevolence, mind you.
Rather, I think that they are a bit more concerned with producing a
good browser and didn't take the time to design a weak-crypto version:
they took the easy way out.

Netscape wants to make money, and for this I support them. They aren't 
going to pay programmers to make a product like a weak-crypto browser
when it doesn't make them money. They get the minimum job done to bow to
ITAR, and they get to work on some new snazzy features for the next
version.

They make Fortezza-based browsers too, would we call them the servants
of Big Brother? Hell no. They are neither freedom fighters nor henchmen
of a tyrant: they are businessmen.

Michael J. Graffam (mgraffam@mhv.net)
http://www.mhv.net/~mgraffam -- Philosophy, Religion, Computers, Crypto, etc
"Enlightenment is man's emergence from his self-incurred immaturity.
Immaturity is the inability to use one's own understanding without the
guidance of another. . .Sapere aude! Have the courage to use your own
understanding!" - Immanuel Kant "What is Enlightenment?"

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Version: PGPfreeware 5.0i for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv

iQCVAwUBNQmEAAKEiLNUxnAfAQEL2QQAhvnV1xLRjXo5YHl+IBwAmBYLzfnPFspP
KXNG5cxltO2ImEK094PxC9FPbEqvmHtid/e+kNzJ4lMPVAh+JZ6ALrcynRkjWK8F
ZkgDZbqaIorT94w2SJppcxMAVYyJ9oAw94uytcXvPTEXDn2IOdTlpw/3gsTaHEPN
ly4Kb1iBhMs=
=tgBR
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: andrew fabbro 
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 11:17:25 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Fortify
In-Reply-To: <199803130603.HAA04734@basement.replay.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Fri, 13 Mar 1998, Anonymous wrote:

> toiling in the bowels of Netscape.  An amazing feat, achieving world-wide 
> distribution of millions of copies of strong crypto, the Feds all unknowing.  

Netscape distributes both a domestic version and an international version:

"Note to customers from countries other than Canada and the United States:
Netscape's recent agreement with the U.S. government allows you to
download Netscape Communicator client software with strong encryption
capabilities that can be accessed only when you connect to particular
Netscape servers approved for export. This capability is now built into
all Netscape Communicator client products and does NOT require you to
fill out an eligibility declaration.

U.S. and Canadian citizens and permanent residents may download versions
with strong encryption that is ALWAYS enabled (regardless of the 128-bit
server connected to) but must still fill out an eligibility declaration
before doing so.

This option allows you to talk to sites that use a strong version of
cryptography to encode sensitive information - such as a credit card
number - that you don't want anyone to be able to capture and read
as it is transmitted over the Internet. All Netscape products include
cryptographic capability. However, if you are a U.S. or Canadian citizen
or a legal permanent resident of the United States, you can choose a
version with the stronger encryption always enabled.

Strong encryption refers to the size of the key used to encrypt the
message. Roughly speaking, messages encrypted with strong (128-bit)
encryption are 309,485,009,821,345,068,724,781,056 times harder to break
than those that use 40-bit encryption. However, some experts estimate that
keys much shorter than 128 bits will be safe for the next two decades.

The strong U.S./Canada-only encryption version is available in French
and English to U.S. and Canadian citizens and to permanent residents of
the United States only.  Because the U.S. government restricts export of
any product using 128-bit encryption, you will be asked to fill out an
Eligibility Declaration stating that you are a U.S. or Canadian citizen or
a legal permanent resident of the United States before you will be allowed
to download the software you've selected. The Eligibility Declaration
will be stored in a database and made available to the U.S. government
upon request."

	-- http://home.netscape.com/download/client_options.html#enhanced




-- 
 Andrew Fabbro   [afabbro@umich.edu]   [andrewf@jesuswept.com]
 http://www-personal.umich.edu/~afabbro/          313.647.2713 
 "We make money the old fashion way. We print it." - DigiCrime






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Cindy Cohn 
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 14:52:20 -0800 (PST)
To: bernstein-announce@toad.com
Subject: Correction re Senate testimony
Message-ID: <199803132231.OAA26445@gw.quake.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


My earlier post was slightly overstated.  Phil Karn has testified before
Congress numerous times about his legal challenge and has consistently
pushed these issues in the legislature.  

My testimony will be the first time any of the attorneys involved have been
asked to discuss the constitutional problems with the cryptography
restrinctions.

My apologies to Phil.

Cindy



******************************
Cindy A. Cohn, Cindy@McGlashan.com
McGlashan & Sarrail, P.C.
177 Bovet Road, 6th Floor
San Mateo, CA 94402
(650) 341-2585 (tel)
(650) 341-1395 (fax)





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSquncr 
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 14:42:29 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: get me off/ME TOO!
Message-ID: <1e0ef5b7.3509b602@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


In a message dated 98-03-12 23:17:51 EST, joc@pdx.oneworld.com writes:

<< Hello- ANYONE!!!
 Please, my young son subscribed me to this -whatever you are- and I 
 cannot get off- I do not want any e-mail from you.  Can I please get 
 instructions as to how to stop this? >>

Me too.  Take me off of your stinkin' list.

Stan and the Sequencers




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSquncr 
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 15:26:57 -0800 (PST)
To: bernstein-announce@toad.com
Subject: Re: Correction re Senate testimony
Message-ID: <4e16d544.3509bbac@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Take me off of this list.

Stan




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 18:16:09 -0800 (PST)
To: cyberia-l@listserv.aol.com
Subject: taocp v3 p32
Message-ID: <3509E567.2364@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Subject: 
        Swiss radio international tape
  Date: 
        Fri, 13 Mar 1998 17:45:06 -0700
  From: 
        bill payne 
    To: 
        taocp@cs.stanford.edu
Knuth

Hope you got a copy of the tape.

I wonder or not whether you knew that NSA ACTIVELY tried
to suppress knowledge and research on shift register
sequences.  And Forth too.

Looks like possibly a BAD SCENE ahead.

Best, allahu akbar, etc.

bill

Title: 
Don Knuth's Home Page








:



 Donald E. Knuth
(U+9AD8+5FB7+7EB3),

Professor Emeritus of 
The Art of Computer Programming
at
Stanford University,
welcomes you to his home page.





*Frequently Asked Questions



*Recent News






*Computer Musings
 -->



*Known Errors in My Books



*Important Message to all Users of TeX



*Help Wanted



*Preprints of Recent Papers



*Curriculum Vitć



*Pipe Organ



*Downloadable Graphics



*Downloadable Programs



*Expecting a check from me?




(don't click here)




Stanford Computer Science Home Page









Thursday 3/12/98 7:34 AM

Certified - Return Receipt Requested

Cynthia McKinney

124 Cannon Building
Washington, DC 20515
Office: (202)225-1605
Fax: (202)226-0691
http://www.house.gov/mckinney/

Dear Representative McKinney:



PURPOSE of this letter is to ask your help for us to obtain copes of 
docket sheets from the Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals for cases 
No. 94-2205, Payne v Sandia and 95-2204, Morales v Sandia.

All of our legal efforts to obtain these documents, which any citizen
has a right to, have failed.

REASON you are selected to help is that you appear to be knowledgeable
about operation of the current US federal government and willing to speak 
out in an attempt to solve problems.

You appeared Friday February 27, 1998 on  PBS, The NewsHour with Jim 
Lehrer, along with senators Campbell, Hollings, Lott, Shelby Robb and 
representatives Dana Rohrabacher and Harold Rogers.

These senators and congressmen appeared not to support your views because
they are either mis- or not well-informed about US involvement in support 
of Saddam Hussein.

Stories supporting your view appear on Internet at

  NSA, Crypto AG, and the Iraq-Iran Conflict by J. Orlin Grabbe
  http://www.aci.net/kalliste/speccoll.htm

and

 Crypto AG: The NSA's Trojan Whore? by Wayne Madsen
 http://caq.com/CAQ/caq63/caq63madsen.html

Madsen begins

   It may be the greatest intelligence scam of the century:
   For decades, the US has routinely intercepted and
   deciphered top secret encrypted messages of 120
   countries

But NSA , and as a result the US federal government, apparnetly 
got caught involved in complicity of deaths of about 500,000 Iranians.

This is the subject of a Federal lawsuit seen on Internet at

   http://jya.com/whpfiles.htm
  
US federal government help of Iraq during the Iraq-Iran war may 
possibly backfire on innocent US citizens.

The Wall Street Journal, March 10, 1998, pp. B1, B9. reports

   A Peek Inside a Giant Germ Warehouse 

   By Rochelle Sharpe

   Rockville, Md. -- They keep anthrax bacteria in the
   basement of a faded red-brick building here.

   It isn't far from the yellow-fever virus, the botulism
   bacteria and some of the hundreds of organisms that cause
   the common cold. In fact, there are samples of 85,000
   different fungi, viruses, cells, genes and bacteria here at
   the American Type Culture Collection, by far the largest of
   the 450 repositories of biological materials scattered
   around the globe. ...

   The ATCC legally shipped 10 vials of anthrax, botulism and
   other deadly substances to Iraqi scientists in the 1980s --
   when the U.S. and Iraq were on much friendlier terms -- all
   with the Commerce Department's approval. ...

   http://www.jya.com/btn031198.txt

The US federal government apparently intended these bioweapons to 
be used against the people of Iran.

You demonstrated on PBS TV a quality identified by Francis Bacon

         The contemplation of things as they are,
                without error or confusion,
            without substitution or imposture,
   is in itself a nobler thing than a whole harvest of invention.

by your statement about Saddam Hussein on PBS

                ...our man and our creation...

Perhaps after reading the above materials and

   The Problem of Paradigm Shifts - Terrorism and the 
   Threat From Weapons of Mass Destruction in the Middle East
   Working Draft Anthony H. Cordesman, Senior Fellow and 
   Co-Director Middle East Studies Program October 22, 1996

  http://www.csis.org/mideast/terror.html

senators Campbell, Hollings, Lott, Shelby, Robb and representatives 
Dana Rohrabacher and Harold Rogers MAY NOW understand why you are 
correct and they are mis- or not well-informed about US involvement 
with Saddam Hussein.

PROBLEM we face with the US court system is that court clerks and judges
have committed Title 18 felony violation of law IN WRITING in an attempt
to deny us monetary compensation due us for the cases WE WON at the 
Tenth Circuit on Appeal.  

But judges awarded victories to the US federal government in violation 
of Federal Rules of Appellate Procedure.

Cases  No. 94-2205, Payne v Sandia and 95-2204, Morales v Sandia 
were both won pro se on appeal.

We have filed a writ of mandamus with supreme court judge 
Scalia in an  attempt to get the docket sheets for the two above 
cases.

But Scalia will not answer our certified letters.

Senator McCain wrote Payne on December 23, 1997

  I wanted to take this opportunity of than you for you letter of 
  December 3, 1997. 

  Your situation is in the jurisdiction of Senator Pete Dominici.  
  Therefore, I have  forwarded you letter to his attention.

  William, I hope you situation can be resolved favorably.

Lawyers and politicians Dominici and Bingaman are part of a 
problem not a solution.

Dominici and Bingaman have the following agenda

  University of New Mexico Bureau for Business and Economic
  Research reported on October 14, 1997: 

  A  The Gross State Product of New Mexico is $37.8 billion.

  B  The US Federal government sends $11.3 billion to New Mexico
      each year.

  C  For each $1 New Mexico sends to Washington, New Mexico gets 
      $2 back.

THEREFORE, Representative McKinney, we ask your help to get copies
of the docket sheets.

Citizens of the US are becoming more upset with the behavior of 
bureaucrats, the courts [lawyers], and the US federal government. 

Some Americans have no other way to express their dissatisfaction
with US federal government mismanagement of our country except
by violence.

Frederick Douglass either wrote or said on  August 4, 1847

          Those who profess to favor freedom,
            and yet depreciate agitation
   are men who want crops without plowing up the ground.
      They want rain without thunder and lightening.
         Power concedes nothing without a demand.
            It never did, and it never will.
       Find out just what people will submit to
        and you have found out the exact amount
  of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them.
      These will continue until they are resisted
        with either words or blows, or with both.
          The limits of tyrants are prescribed
       by the endurance of those whom they oppress.

We chose to use the words and law to hold government 
employees accountable.

Please encourage Scalia to do his job. 

Help get us copies of the docket sheets.  

And even perhaps help investigate further and settle this 
American tragedy.


Sincerely,



Arthur R. Morales                William H. Payne
1023 Los  Arboles NW             13015 Calle de Sandias NE
Albuquerque, NM 87107            Albuquerque, NM 87111

Enclosures
1  NSA, Crypto AG, and the Iraq-Iran Conflict by J. Orlin Grabbe
2  Crypto AG: The NSA's Trojan Whore? by Wayne Madsen
3  Swiss Radio International Audio tape, 15 May, 18 July 1994

Distribution
Ben Nighthorse Campbell
  administrator@campbell.senate.gov 
Ernest Hollings
  senator@hollings.senate.gov
Trent Lott
  senatorlott@lott.senate.gov
Richard Shelby
  senator@shelby.senate.gov 
Charles Robb
  Senator_Robb@robb.senate.gov
Jim Lehrer
  newshour@pbs.org


Title: Space Related Applications of Forth









Space-Related Applications of Forth


Compiled by James Rash NASA Goddard Space Flight
Center Greenbelt, Maryland 


Introduction. 

The following table presents space-related applications
of Forth microprocessors and the Forth programming language, including


spacecraft flight system controllers 

on-board payload experiment controllers 

ground support systems (e.g., communications controllers
and data processing systems) 

hardware or software used to build or test either flight
or ground systems. 

Developers are requested to supply table updates and
corrections, as well as information regarding relevant projects not
already included, as appropriate. Please send information, comments, and
suggestions to the author of this web page. Authorization for release of
the information is the responsibility of the contributor. 

Please notify the author concerning any non functional
URLs, links, or contact information in the table. 

Further information on Forth, including the ANSI standard
(ANS Forth): 

Forth Interest
Group Maryland Forth Interest Group: http://www.bcpl.lib.md.us/~nbuck/fig.html -->

Taygeta




Notice: Nothing appearing in these pages is to be
construed as an endorsement by NASA. The information may be changed or
withdrawn at any time without notice. The author has obtained the information
from sources believed to be reliable, and has attempted to ensure accuracy,
but makes no guarantees or representations of any kind. Copying, using,
and distributing the table is authorized, provided it is kept intact, properly
attributed, and accompanied by this Notice. 






DEVELOPER

MISSION

DESCRIPTION

FURTHER INFORMATION
(note: remove blanks from email addresses given below)



Ball Aerospace (click on "Aerospace"
link)

Advanced Composition Explorer (ACE)

Star Scanner instrument & control software, using Harris RTX 2000
Forth microprocessor


 



Ball Aerospace 

Advanced X-Ray Astronomical Facility (AXAF)

Software to control the Science Instrument selection and focus mechanisms,
using Harris RTX 2010 Forth microprocessor


 



Ball Aerospace 

Advanced X-Ray Astronomical Facility (AXAF)

Software to operate precision CCD Aspect Camera, using Harris RTX 2010
Forth microprocessor


 



Ball Aerospace 

Earth Observing System (EOS)

Scanning mirror controller for the Thermal Imaging Radiometer (TIR),
using Harris RTX 2010 Forth microprocessor 


 



Ball Aerospace 

Midcourse Sensor Experiment (MSX) - SDIO

Star Tracker instrument & control software, using Harris RTX 2000
Forth microprocessor 


 



Ball Aerospace 

Military aircraft

Star Tracker instrument & control software, using Harris RTX 2000
Forth microprocessor 


 



Ball Aerospace 

Miniature Seeker Technology Integration (MSTI)

Star Tracker instrument & control software, using Harris RTX 2000
Forth microprocessor 


 



Ball Aerospace 

Near Earth Asteroid Rendezvous (NEAR)

Star Tracker instrument & control software, using Harris RTX 2000
Forth microprocessor 


 



Ball Aerospace 

Shuttle

Star Tracker instrument & control software, using Harris RTX 2000
Forth microprocessor 


 



Ball Aerospace 

Submillimeter Wave Astronomy Satellite (SWAS)

Star Tracker instrument & control software, using Harris RTX 2000
Forth microprocessor 


 



Ball Aerospace 

X-ray Timing Explorer (XTE)

Star Tracker instrument & control software, using Harris RTX 2000
Forth microprocessor 


 



California Institute of Technology (Caltech)

Advance Composition Explorer (ACE)

Cosmic Ray Isotope Spectrometer (CRIS) instrument controller hardware
(RTX2010) and software in Forth

Walter Cook at wrc@ thor.srl.caltech.edu



California Institute of Technology (Caltech)

Advance Composition Explorer (ACE)

Solar IsotopeSpectrometer (SIS) instrument controller hardware (RTX2010)
and software in Forth

Walter Cook at wrc@ thor.srl.caltech.edu



Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics
Laboratory (JHU/APL) 

USAF DMSP

Magnetometer instrument control


 



JHU/APL

USAF DMSP

Special Sensor Ultraviolet Spectrographic Imager (SSUSI), 5 missions
over 15 years using Harris RTX 2010 Forth microprocessor 

 



JHU/APL

Advanced Composition Explorer (ACE) satellite

ULEIS (Ultra Low Energy Isotope Spectrometer), using embedded Harris
RTX 2010 Forth microprocessor 


 



JHU/APL

CASSINI
spacecraft

Magnetospheric Imager (MIMI) using Harris RTX 2010 Forth microprocessor



 



JHU/APL

HILAT

Magnetometer instrument control 


 



JHU/APL

Hopkins Ultraviolet Telescope (HUT)

Instrument control, on-line data analysis, telemetry 


 



JHU/APL

MAGSAT

Attitude Control Processor 


 



JHU/APL

"Polar Bear" (Polar Beacon & Auroral Research Satellite)

Magnetometer instrument control 


 



JHU/APL

US Navy LONARS High precision navigation receiver using Loran-C

Real time data processing & sensor control software 


 



JHU/APL

Near Earth Asteroid Rendezvous (NEAR)

Command & Telemetry Processor, 
Multi-Spectral Imaging System, 
Infrared Spectrograph and Magnetometer, 
X-ray/Gamma-ray Spectrometer, and 
Laser Rangefinder, all using the Harris RTX 2010RH Forth microprocessor



 



Los Alamos National Laboratory

Advanced Composition Explorer (ACE) satellite

Solar wind data processing unit, using Harris RTX 2010 Forth microprocessor



 



McDonnell Douglas

Shuttle - Electrophoresis Operations in Space (1986)

Pharmaceutical purification process control software 


Robert Wood at rwood@ mdc.com




McGill University

International Microgravity Laboratory (IML-1)
(Shuttle mission STS-42) 

Space Adaptation Syndrom Experiment management and data acquisition
for four out of seven life science experiments 


Luc Lefebvre at lefebvre@ medcor.mcgill.ca




NASA/GSFC

Compatibility Test Van (CTV)

Dual channel PCM simulator system software 


 



NASA/GSFC

Compatibility Test Van (CTV): Landsat, HST, GRO, COBE, UARS, etc.,
Wallops, Data Evaluation Lab

Programmable Data Formatter III system software 


 



NASA/GSFC

CRAF/CASSINI

MASSACQ Flight Instrument Test/Calibration System 


 



NASA/GSFC

Marine Optical Buoy (MOBY)

Command and data acquisition system written in Forth


Mark Yarbrough at yarbrough@ mlml.calstate.edu




NASA/GSFC

Massively Parallel Processor (MPP)

Image processing software


 



NASA/GSFC

NCC Mission Operations Support Area (MOSA)

ITR (Intelligent Transmitter/Receiver) -- Interface board for MOSA
(formerly Mini-NOCC) Front End


Thomas Sardella at Thomas.E.Sardella.1@ gsfc.nasa.gov




NASA/GSFC

Shuttle Solar Backscatter Ultra Violet (SSBUV)
ozone calibration instrument with 8 successful Shuttle bay flights

Small Payload Accommodation Module (SPAM) interface controller software
written in Forth


Bob Caffrey at Robert.T.Caffrey.1@ gsfc.nasa.gov




NASA/GSFC

Shuttle Solar Backscatter Ultra Violet (SSBUV)

Instrument Interface Electronics Module (IIEM) software written in
Forth


John T. (Tom) Riley at john.t.riley.1@ gsfc.nasa.gov




NASA/GSFC

Shuttle Ozone Limb Sounder Experiment (SOLSE)

A "Hitchhiker Junior", to fly summer '97 -- instrument controller
written in Forth



(ditto)





NASA/GSFC

Limb Ozone Retrieval Experiment (LORE)

A small independent instrument within SOLSE -- instrument controller
written in Forth



(ditto)





NASA/GSFC

Ultraviolet Imaging Telescope (UIT) on Space Shuttle Astro-2 mission

Dedicated Experiment Processor (DEP) written in Forth


Peter Chen at chen@ uit.gsfc.nasa.gov




NASA/GSFC

Small Spacecraft Technology Initiative (SSTI)
(Lewis Research Center/TRW)

Goddard Electronics Module (GEM) data acquisition processor using Harris
RTX-2010


Jay T. Miller at jay.t.miller.1@ gsfc.nasa.gov




NASA/GSFC

ACE (JHU/APL)

Spacecraft Loads & Acoustic Monitor (SLAM) simultaneous data acquisition
and downlink subsystem using Harris RTX-2010



(ditto)





NASA/GSFC

Wideband Transport Frame Formatter (WTFF)

Virtual channel processor & system controller for the Advanced
Orbiting Systems (AOS) Testbed using Harris RTX 2000 Forth microprocessor



Jose Bentancort at Jose@ tsi-telsys.com




NASA/JSC

Shuttle, IML-1

Krug Life Sciences Microgravity Vestibular Investigations 


 



NASA/JPL

Shuttle Imaging Radar (SIR-B)

Command & control software 


 



NASA

TOPEX

Portion of Ground Support Equipment software 


 



Orbital Sciences Corporation

ORBCOMM Experimental Package OXP-1 on Pegasus

Flight & experiment software 


 



Orbital Sciences Corporation

ORBCOMM Experimental Package OXP-1 on Pegasus

Flight & experiment software 


 



Orbital Sciences Corporation (formerly Fairchild Space & Defense)

USAF Multimission Modular Spacecraft (MMS)

Multiplex Data Bus Monitor/Recorder test equipment using Harris RTX2000
microprocessor and firmware written in Forth


Mark A. Mowen at markmowen@ fsd.com




Orbital Sciences Corporation

ORBCOMM-X

Telemetry, flight control support 


 



Orbital Sciences Corporation

USAF APEX

Data management and power control software 


 



Orbital Sciences Corporation

SeaStar

Sea WiFs data management and power control software 


 



Orbital Sciences Corporation/Hercules

Pegasus

Telemetry & flight control 


 



Radio Amateur Satellite Corp. (AMSAT-DL (Germany))

AMSAT OSCAR 10, OSCAR 13,
OSCAR 21, and (in development) Phase 3-D amateur radio satellites 

Integrated Housekeeping Unit (including navigation, attitude control,
telemetry and telecommand tracking, payload control, power management,
health & safety, and propulsion control) and Ground Support Equipment,
all using the Forth-like language IPS (Interpreter for Process Structures).
OSCAR 21 used the Harris RTX2000 microprocessor. 


 



Swedish Space Corp./JHU/APL

Freja 

Magnetometer experiment control 


Lawrence Zanetti at zanetti@ jhuapl.edu




University of California

Galileo

Magnetic Field Experiment instrument control


 



University of Wisconsin

Wisconsin Ultraviolet Photo-Polarimeter Experiment (WUPPE)


Instrument control 


 



US Navy

SPINSAT

Portion of ground support equipment software 


 



USSR 

Baikonur Cosmodrome 

Telemetry data analysis & retrieval workstations 


 



Vertex Communications Corporation

Satellite earthstation antenna systems

7210 Monopulse Antenna Control System on Motorola 68030 platform

sales@ vcsd.com



Last revised: 4 March 1998








Name

Mail
Code



Responsible management official

Sylvia Sheppard



588




Author 

James Rash at james.rash@ gsfc.nasa.gov



588





For reference purposes, this page is located at URL: 


http://groucho.gsfc.nasa.gov/forth 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 57290970@worldnet.att.net
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 09:18:18 -0800 (PST)
To: wallacer@apamobordol.com
Subject: Extreme Profits! Simple Business
Message-ID: <199803131739.EML03624@apamobordol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSquncr 
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 19:20:10 -0800 (PST)
To: cyberia-l@listserv.aol.com
Subject: Re: taocp v3 p32
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


In a message dated 98-03-13 21:49:06 EST, billp@nmol.com writes:

<< Subj:	 taocp v3 p32
 Date:	98-03-13 21:49:06 EST
 From:	billp@nmol.com (bill payne)
 Sender:	owner-cypherpunks@toad.com
 To:	taocp@cs.stanford.edu, lawya@lucs-01.novell.leeds.ac.uk,
merata@pearl.sums.ac.ir, wir@monkey-boy.com, cypherpunks@toad.com,
ukcrypto@maillist.ox.ac.uk, cyberia-l@listserv.aol.com
 CC:	merata@pearl.sums.c.ir, lawya@lucs-01.novell.leeds.ac.uk,
sjmz@hplb.hpl.hp.com, wmadsen@explorerer.csc.com
 
 File:  taocpv3p.mim (29360 bytes)
 DL Time (28800 bps): < 1 minute
 
 This message is a multi-part MIME message and will be saved with the default
filename taocpv3p.mim
 --------------------
 Subject: 
         Swiss radio international tape
   Date: 
         Fri, 13 Mar 1998 17:45:06 -0700
   From: 
         bill payne 
     To: 
         taocp@cs.stanford.edu
 Knuth
 
 Hope you got a copy of the tape.
 
 I wonder or not whether you knew that NSA ACTIVELY tried
 to suppress knowledge and research on shift register
 sequences.  And Forth too.
 
 Looks like possibly a BAD SCENE ahead.
 
 Best, allahu akbar, etc.
 
 bill
 
 
 ----------------------- Headers --------------------------------
 Return-Path: 
 Received: from  relay31.mx.aol.com (relay31.mail.aol.com [172.31.109.31]) by
air16.mail.aol.com (v40.7) with SMTP; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 21:49:06 -0500
 Received: from toad.com (toad.com [140.174.2.1])
 	  by relay31.mx.aol.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0)
 	  with ESMTP id VAA06784;
 	  Fri, 13 Mar 1998 21:48:59 -0500 (EST)
 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by toad.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA10873 for
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 Received: from portal.dx.net (portal.dx.net [199.190.65.2]) by toad.com
(8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA10868 for ; Fri, 13 Mar
1998 18:16:02 -0800 (PST)
 Received: from nmol.com ([206.162.11.2])
 	by portal.dx.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA24071
 	for ; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 21:17:24 -0500 (EST)
 X-ROUTED: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 19:21:06 -0500
 X-TCP-IDENTITY: Billp
 Received: from billp [206.162.11.158] by nmol.com with smtp
 	id BDAJDCFG ; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 19:09:52 -0500
 Message-ID: <3509E567.2364@nmol.com>
 Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 19:04:46 -0700
 From: bill payne 
 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03 (Win95; I)
 MIME-Version: 1.0
 To: taocp@cs.stanford.edu, lawya@lucs-01.novell.leeds.ac.uk,
         merata@pearl.sums.ac.ir, wir@monkey-boy.com, cypherpunks@toad.com,
         ukcrypto@maillist.ox.ac.uk, cyberia-l@listserv.aol.com
 CC: merata@pearl.sums.c.ir, lawya@lucs-01.novell.leeds.ac.uk,
         sjmz@hplb.hpl.hp.com, wmadsen@explorerer.csc.com
 Subject: taocp v3 p32
 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------66B76F3BBA4"
 Sender: owner-cypherpunks@toad.com
 Precedence: bulk
   >>

Unsubscribe me from this list.

Stan




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: jo.dfr.567a@msn.com
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 08:55:23 -0800 (PST)
To: sq9.vbc3e5z@msn.com
Subject: 68 Million Email Addresses - $99
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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Electric Email is a private company and is not affiliated with, or endorsed by, AOL, MSN, or any other Internet Service Provider.

Copyright 1998

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Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging the freedom of speech 
or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.         
    
Amendment I, The US Constitution                                                                :-)





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: y0                                  @aol.com
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 08:04:47 -0800 (PST)
To: y0                                  @aol.com
Subject:  
Message-ID: <199803141603.KAA30350@marki.compu.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



- Click -

Click here!!






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Jared" 
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 10:37:22 -0800 (PST)
To: cryptography@c2.net
Subject: New Website is up!!
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


New Web page up at HTTP://WWW.INSTANTWEB.COM/~SALEM/

CHECK IT OUT!! 


THANKS!!


			-CypherPunks 



Get your FREE, private e-mail
account at http://www.mailcity.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "simon" 
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 09:40:22 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: ANSWERS
Message-ID: <199803141738.RAA22094@ns0.fast.net.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


have you got a hacker and if you have would you mind if you could send over
to me?
WE ARE DESIGNING A HACKING SYSTEM FOR WORLD WIDE USE AND WONDERED IF YOU
COULD HELP IN THE DESIGNING OF IT
IF SO PLEASE SEND AN E-MAIL TO US AND WE WILL SEND YOU SOME VALUABLE OTHER
HACKING SOFTWARE









From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 15:50:49 -0800 (PST)
To: Declan McCullagh 
Subject: Re: time to export RSA and demand to be prosecuted? (Re: Cypherpunks Crypto_Legal Assistance Fund)
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980314235201.00690500@pop.pipeline.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Declan wrote:

>If anyone chooses to try this act of civil disobedience, let me know and
>I'll write about it. But be warned: the Department of Commerce has
>approximately 60 special agents who enforce violations of export rules.
>These are federal police officers, stationed in field office around the
>U.S., with badges and arrest power, trained at FLETC in Georgia. They don't
>have a sense of humor about these things.

Well, yes, that's what BXA flaunts, but I wonder if the encryption regs
are a high priority compared to the cases which are actually pursued
which deal with truly threatening technology that every congressperson
loves to fearfully hate. Yapping Chihuahua crypto is not up there yet, 
I suspect.

True, there's a batch of agents being trained to work specifically on
encryption, and with the total of crypto exports now exceeding $half a 
billion, it may be cost and politically effective to set an example by 
pounding one or two neo-crypto-Zimmermanns, especially as the
year's hearings rumble, troll and slumber.

Still, Adam's signature RSA-taunt has been on our Web site for months,
terminating each of his exemplary stream of messages on low perfidy 
in high places, to no effect on BXA's eagle eyeball.

Adam's 3-liner was also once part of Peter Junger's legal filings 
 (DoJ downloaded the evidence) until we 
were ordered to excise the tiny terrible Perl so that Peter's noble 
bite of the hand of god would be clearly his stiletto fangs and not 
confused with Sir Adam Bulldog's ass ripper.

Now, Declan, what would a crypto-miscreant need to do to actually get 
BXA's fierce kennel of crypto bloodhounds' attention, to make it truly
worth everybody's headline read, money, politics, talents and teeth?

By Tuesday, when Cindy Cohn sticks her head in the beast's mouth.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Six 
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 17:33:20 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: In Your EAR...
Message-ID: <350B306B.1B7C@sk.sympatico.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


In Your EAR, Shit-For-Brains
----------------------------
  In continuation of a tradition begun on Dec. 7, 2041 A.D.
EARMonger InterpretPrizes would like to extend an invitation 
to those who wish to participate in a clear violation of the
U.S. EAR regulations of your current time period.
  The StarShip CowBoy, descended from the lineage of the
Author, would be more than happy to ensure that your violation
of EAR regulations extends not only across the physical and
political geographically-based space continuum, but also across
a range of the time continuum which begins before EAR was an
unborn seed in the mind of The RAT, continues throughout its
journey from the mind, through the digestive system, its
physical manifestation as droppings from The RAT, its further
evolution through the reproductive systems of various insects
and vermin, right up to the time that The RatFucker returned
it to its rightful place, placing it back in the mind of
The Rat, as a seed placed in The Rat's EAR.

"The more things change, the more they remain insane..."
~ The Author

  To participate, one only need to send the following:

print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo
"16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<>
)]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0
    To: 
        ravage@ssz.com
    CC: 
        cypherpunks@cyberpass.net, frissell@panix.com



Jim Choate  writes:
> Perhaps it's time, in regards testing crypto law, to do exactly what
> Tim May proposes - premeditated actions intended to force either a
> clear refusal to prosecute on the part of the government or else a
> clear abstinance on their part to prosecute.
> 
> It's obvious that no individual has the legal where withal who is
> also willing to do this. 

Some of the people on the list are lawyers, perhaps they could do it
and represent themselves, or represent others.  Duncan Frissell has
some opinions on this I think.  If I recall his previous statements on
this topic have included that Phil Zimmermann ought to hire a troupe
of dancing elephants to make a noise and force the Feds to prosecute.
(Duncan considered the Feds would loose).

On a practical matter of what to export... may I suggest exporting
this:

print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo
"16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<>
)]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/

print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo
"16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<>
)]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0
        To: 
           Adam Back 
       CC: 
           cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
References: 
           1 , 2


At 21:27 +0000 3/14/98, Adam Back wrote:
>Peter Junger got an official decision from the US commerce department
>that this was not exportable under the EAR regulations.
>
>Do we have a volunteer?

If anyone chooses to try this act of civil disobedience, let me know and
I'll write about it. But be warned: the Department of Commerce has
approximately 60 special agents who enforce violations of export rules.
These are federal police officers, stationed in field office around the
U.S., with badges and arrest power, trained at FLETC in Georgia. They
don't
have a sense of humor about these things.

-Declan


FLETC / Georgia
Department of Commerce





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: TruthMonger 
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 18:22:48 -0800 (PST)
To: John Young 
Subject: Re: time to export RSA and demand to be prosecuted? (Re:Cypherpunks Crypto_Legal Assistance Fund)
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19980314235201.00690500@pop.pipeline.com>
Message-ID: <350B53E8.B54@dev.null>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


John Young wrote:
> Now, Declan, what would a crypto-miscreant need to do to actually get
> BXA's fierce kennel of crypto bloodhounds' attention, to make it truly
> worth everybody's headline read, money, politics, talents and teeth?

What we are talking about, in terms of 3-lines of legally 
unexportable code, is 'Dick Wars'.
If one were to make certain that a wide range of members of Congress,
Senators, BXA and Department of Commerce officials, etc., were to
receive an email with a Subject: "I'm Pissing In Your EAR" and a
message body providing details of their crypto-miscreantizing, then
the inappropriate authorities would be hard-pressed to ignore the
stream (pardon the pun) of ridicule that would result in their
tyrannical, unconstitutional bluff being called.

Richard Monger
Nuclear Pississist and Master Baiter






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSquncr 
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 17:29:51 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Remove me.
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Declan wrote:

>If anyone chooses to try this act of civil disobedience, let me know and
>I'll write about it. But be warned: the Department of Commerce has
>approximately 60 special agents who enforce violations of export rules.
>These are federal police officers, stationed in field office around the
>U.S., with badges and arrest power, trained at FLETC in Georgia. They don't
>have a sense of humor about these things.

Well, yes, that's what BXA flaunts, but I wonder if the encryption regs
are a high priority compared to the cases which are actually pursued
which deal with truly threatening technology that every congressperson
loves to fearfully hate. Yapping Chihuahua crypto is not up there yet, 
I suspect.

True, there's a batch of agents being trained to work specifically on
encryption, and with the total of crypto exports now exceeding $half a 
billion, it may be cost and politically effective to set an example by 
pounding one or two neo-crypto-Zimmermanns, especially as the
year's hearings rumble, troll and slumber.

Still, Adam's signature RSA-taunt has been on our Web site for months,
terminating each of his exemplary stream of messages on low perfidy 
in high places, to no effect on BXA's eagle eyeball.

Adam's 3-liner was also once part of Peter Junger's legal filings 
 (DoJ downloaded the evidence) until we 
were ordered to excise the tiny terrible Perl so that Peter's noble 
bite of the hand of god would be clearly his stiletto fangs and not 
confused with Sir Adam Bulldog's ass ripper.

Now, Declan, what would a crypto-miscreant need to do to actually get 
BXA's fierce kennel of crypto bloodhounds' attention, to make it truly
worth everybody's headline read, money, politics, talents and teeth?

By Tuesday, when Cindy Cohn sticks her head in the beast's mouth.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSquncr 
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 18:18:37 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: A little Paranoid, PUNKS?
Message-ID: <758c3e85.350b3a58@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


In a message dated 98-03-14 21:03:56 EST, ualdv8@sk.sympatico.ca writes:

<< -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
 Version: PGP for Business Security 5.5
 
 mQENAzZsmI4AAAEIANHHMhV7V8WqPO6RjjfhZbeY/e6hsjAjKckU7YAYPhHiJfqG
 xw5+PgVjRPhIpXEE8ksmzZBzyH5KLW5GKFJZoD6YvVUSuzm+Gpxv+G78sBDBljUt
 BUoaB0XM4HSjEuqZtRtva+l+MAr3tFrK8FSdCsSgjQa8oOT5yFE76hgOGOkXGDKC
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSquncr 
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 20:11:14 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: (no subject)
Message-ID: <49796d70.350b549b@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


In a message dated 98-03-14 23:01:01 EST, nobody@REPLAY.COM writes:

<< Sometime ago there was a post to the list which made more sense than
 all of the other finger-pointing posts, combined, which have proclaimed
 this-or-that entity to be a tentacle/testicle of one or another of the
 list members.
 The post was by someone claiming to be the "only" real member of the
 cypherpunks list. >>

Who was it, a "nobody?"  :-)





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSquncr 
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 20:24:29 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Read about a REAL "Punk!"
Message-ID: <458a4c61.350b57d6@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Absolute Proof - Rush is a Liar!


First let's define 'liar' (from pages 670-671 of 'Merriam Webster's Collegiate
Dictionary, 10th
Edition')

"Liar - one that tells lies"

That was easy, now it's a little more confusing, because of the number of
definitions (4). The first
two I will leave out, as they pertain to how you might 'lie' down, or where a
golf ball may 'lie'. The
3rd is the verb, and is inapplicable. I will use the 4th definition, the noun.

(4) "Lie (noun)- 1: a: an assertion of something known or believed by the
speaker to be untrue
with intent to deceive b: an untrue or inaccurate statement that may or may
not be believed true
by the speaker 2: something that misleads or deceives 3: a charge of lying"

By combining the two definitions,

(4:1:a) 'Liar - one that tells assertions of somethings known or believed by
the speaker to be
untrue with intent to deceive'
(4:1:b) 'Liar - one that tells untrue or inaccurate statements that may or may
not be believed true
by the speaker'
(4:2) 'Liar - one that tells somethings that mislead or deceive'
(4:3) 'Liar - one that tells charges of lying'

I think that regular readers will now concede that subsense (4:1:b) proves
that his many 'errors'
can be classified as lies, and (4:2) certainly fits Rush! But for the sake of
proof, I will now
document more than one lie, with complete disreguard as to whether Rush knew
they were lies at
the time he said them, to prove it by subsense (4:1:b).

These examples from FAIR (Fairness & Accuracy In Reporting). Please e-mail
FAIR (at
fair-report@fair.org - it will be returned via e-mail) for the complete FAIR
report on Rush
Limbaugh, so you can see how Limbaugh responds to FAIR's reports of his lies
(Limbaugh's
so-called response (that he lauded so loudly (at the time)) is included also,
as well as FAIR's
counter-response). 


LIMBAUGH: On California contractor C.C. Myers completing repairs 74 days early
on the
earthquake-damaged Santa Monica Freeway: "There was one key element that made
this
happen. One key thing: The governor of California declared the [freeway] a
disaster area and by
so doing eliminated the need for competitive bids.... Government got the hell
out of the way." (TV
show, 4/13/94) "They gave this guy [Myers] the job without having to go
through the
rigmarole...of giving 25 percent of the job to a minority-owned business and
25 percent to a
woman." (TV show, 4/15/94)

REALITY: There was competitive bidding: Myers beat four other contractors for
the job.
Affirmative action rules applied: At least 40 percent of the subcontracts went
to minority or
women-owned firms. Far from getting out of the way, dozens of state employees
were on the job
24 hours a day. Furthermore, the federal government picked up the tab for the
whole job (L.A.
Times, 5/1/94).


LIMBAUGH: "There's no such thing as an implied contract." (Radio show, quoted
in FRQ,
Spring/93)

REALITY: Every first year law student knows there is.


LIMBAUGH: "Ladies and gentlemen, we now know why there is this institutional
opposition to
low tax rates in the liberal wing of the Democratic Party. It's because [low
tax rates] are biblical
in nature and in root. When you can trace the lowering of tax rates on grain
from 90 percent to 20
percent giving seven fat years during the days of Pharaoh in Egypt, why then
you are tracing the
roots of lower taxes and rising prosperity to religion.... You can trace
individual prosperity,
economic growth back to the Bible, the Old Testament. Isn't it amazing?"
(Radio show, 6/28/93)

REALITY: Amazingly wrong. Genesis 41 is about the wisdom of INSTITUTING taxes,
not
cutting them. After Pharaoh had a dream that prophesied seven fat years to be
followed by seven
lean years, Joseph advised him to "appoint officers over the land, and take up
the fifth part of the
land of Egypt in the seven plenteous years...and lay up corn under the hands
of Pharaoh." In
other words, a 20 percent tax on the grain harvest would put aside food for
use during the famine.
Pharaoh took Joseph's advice, and Egypt avoided hunger during the famine.


LIMBAUGH: "It has not been proven that nicotine is addictive, the same with
cigarettes causing
emphysema [and other diseases]." (Radio show, 4/29/94)

REALITY: Nicotine's addictiveness has been reported in medical literature
since the turn of the
century. Surgeon General C. Everett Koop's 1988 report on nicotine addiction
left no doubts on
the subject; "Today the scientific base linking smoking to a number of chronic
diseases is
overwhelming, with a total of 50,000 studies from dozens of countries," states
Encyclopedia
Britannica's 1987 "Medical and Health Annual."


LIMBAUGH: "Most Canadian physicians who are themselves in need of surgery, for
example,
scurry across the border to get it done right: the American way. They have
found, through
experience, that state medical care is too expensive..." (Told You So, p. 153)

REALITY: "Mr. Limbaugh's claim simply isn't true," says Dr. Hugh Scully, chair
of the
Canadian Medical Association's Council on Healing & Finance. "The vast
majority of Canadians,
including physicians, receive their care here in Canada. Those few Canadians
who receive health
care in the U.S. most often do because they have winter homes in the
States--like Arizona and
Florida -- and have emergent health problems there." Medical care in Canada is
hardly "too
expensive"; it's provided free and covered by taxes.


LIMBAUGH: "There are more American Indians alive today than there were when
Columbus
arrived or at any other time in history. Does this sound like a record of
genocide?" (Told You So,
p. 68)

REALITY: According to Carl Shaw of the U.S. Bureau of Indian Affairs,
estimates of the
pre-Columbus population of what later became the United States range from 5
million to 15
million. Native populations in the late 19th century fell to 250,000, due in
part to genocidal
policies. Today the U.S.'s Native American population is about 2 million.


LIMBAUGH: "Women were doing quite well in this country before feminism came
along."
(Radio show, quoted in FRQ, Summer/93)

REALITY: Before feminism, women couldn't even vote. 


LIMBAUGH: "Anita Hill followed Clarence Thomas everywhere. Wherever he went,
she wanted
to be right by his side, she wanted to work with him, she wanted to continue
to date him.... There
were no other accusers who came forth after Anita Hill did and said, 'Yeah,
Clarence Thomas, he
harassed me, too.' There was none of that." (TV show, 5/4/94)

REALITY: Hill could not have continued to date Thomas, since they never dated.
Two other
women, Sukari Hardnett and Angela Wright, came forth in the Thomas case with
similar charges. 


LIMBAUGH: On Whitewater: "I don't think the New York Times has run a story on
this yet. I
mean, we haven't done a thorough search, but I--there has not been a big one,
front-page story,
about this one that we can recall. So this has yet to create or get up to its
full speed--if it weren't
for us and the Wall Street Journal and the American Spectator, this would be
one of the biggest
and most well kept secrets going on in American politics today." (TV show,
2/17/94)

REALITY: The New York Times BROKE the Whitewater story on March 8, 1992, in a
front-page story by Jeff Gerth that included much of the key information known
today. The
investigative article ran over 1700 words.


LIMBAUGH: Quotes President James Madison: "We have staked the future...upon
the capacity
of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain
ourselves according to
the Ten Commandments of God." (Told You So, p. 73)

REALITY: "We didn't find anything in our files remotely like the sentiment
expressed in the
extract you sent to us," David B. Mattern, the associate editor of The Madison
Papers, told the
Kansas City Star (1/16/94). "In addition, the idea is entirely inconsistent
with everything we know
about Madison's views on religion and government." 


LIMBAUGH: "And it was only 4,000 votes that--had they gone another way in
Chicago--Richard
Nixon would have been elected in 1960." (TV show, 4/28/94)

REALITY: Kennedy won the 1960 election with 303 electoral votes to 219 for
Nixon. Without
Illinois' 27 electoral votes, Kennedy would still have won, 276-246.


LIMBAUGH: On Iran-contra special prosecutor Lawrence Walsh: "This Walsh story
basically
is, we just spent seven years and $40 million looking for any criminal
activity on the part of
anybody in the Reagan administration, and guess what? We couldn't find any.
These guys didn't
do anything, but we wish they had so that we could nail them. So instead,
we're just going to say,
'Gosh, these are rotten guys.' They have absolutely no evidence. There is not
one indictment.
There is not one charge." (TV show, 1/19/94)

REALITY: Walsh won indictments against 14 people in connection with the Iran-
contra scandal
including leading Reagan administration officials like former Secretary of
Defense Caspar
Weinberger and former national security advisers Robert McFarlane and John
Poindexter. Of
the 14, 11 were convicted or pleaded guilty. (Two convictions were later
overturned on
technicalities--including that of occasional Limbaugh substitute Oliver North)


LIMBAUGH: Explaining why the Democrats wanted to "sabotage" President Bush
with the 1990
budget deal: "Now, here is my point. In 1990, George Bush was president and
was enjoying a 90
percent plus approval rating on the strength of our victories in the Persian
Gulf War and Cold
War." (Told You So, p. 304)

REALITY: In October 1990, when the budget deal was concluded the Gulf War had
not yet been
fought.


LIMBAUGH: On the Gulf War: "Everybody in the world was aligned with the United
States
except who? The United States Congress." (TV show, 4/18/94)

REALITY: Both houses of Congress voted to authorize the U.S. to use force
against Iraq.


LIMBAUGH: On Bosnia: "For the first time in military history, U.S. military
personnel are not
under the command of United States generals." (TV show, 4/18/94)

REALITY: That's news to the Pentagon. "How far back do you want to go?" asked
Commander
Joe Gradisher, a Pentagon spokesperson. "Americans served under Lafayette in
the
Revolutionary war." Gradisher pointed out several famous foreign commanders of
U.S. troops,
including France's Marshall Foch, in overall command of U.S. troops in World
War 1. In World
War 2, Britain's General Montgomery led U.S. troops in Europe and North
Africa, while another
British General, Lord Mountbatten, commanded the China-Burma-India theatre.


LIMBAUGH: Limbaugh frequently denies that he uses his show for political
activism: "I have
yet to encourage you people or urge you to call anybody. I don't do it. They
think I'm the one
doing it. That's fine. You don't need to be told when to call. They think you
are a bunch of
lemmings out there." (Radio show, 6/28/93)

REALITY: Just an hour after making the above claim, he was--as usual--sending
his troops to the
trenches: "The people in the states where these Democratic senators are up for
reelection in '94
have to let their feelings be known.... These senators, you let them know. I
think Wisconsin's one
state. Let's say Herb Kohl is up in '94. You people in Wisconsin who don't
like this bill, who don't
like the tax increases, you let Herb Kohl know somehow."


And in summation, Rush is a liar (proven by (4:1:b), 'Merriam Webster's
Collegiate Dictionary,
10th Edition", page 670-671)!

Readers should judge on their own, whether you think this proves that Rush
knew about these
lies in advance and/or had an intent to deceive when he told these lies (as
it's impossible to prove
ones state of mind). I believe he did (on both accounts), so therefore I
believe there's ample
evidence to show Rush a liar by subsense 4:1:a, and 4:2 also! Readers should
also judge whether
they think that (many of) his lies are attempts at changing history.

Stanley Rosenthal




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSquncr 
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 22:21:29 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: And ANOTHER REAL "Punk!" (or two)
Message-ID: <169bc590.350b7340@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Subj: TAKE STOCK(man, Please!)!
Date: 06/19/96

I start with Article 6, section 3 of the Constitution of the United States of
America - 

"3 The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the members of the
several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial officers,
both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by oath or
affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious test shall
ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the
United States."

And now, from the *real* "liberal" media, the Houston Press, June - 13-19 -
1996 issue -
--------------------------
(TOC description - Stalking Stockman - Truth was the first casualty when I
visited Steve Stockman's combined home and political sweatshop. By Tim
Fleck)

{Quote - "We're not afraid of anything." - An unidentified whiny-voiced
Stockmanite. Photos - a picture of the headline of an article in the Houston
Chronicle of 6-7-96 - "CHARGES SOUGHT AGAINST REPORTER Trespassing Alleged At
Stockman's House", a picture of Tim Fleck walking up
to Stockman's house, caption - "Knock, knock, who's there? Fleck cautiously
approaches the threshhold of the Stockman compound.", and a picture
of a sign that says "God Bless You! Congressman Stockman")


INTO THE DEN OF STOCKMANIA

The Truth About My Alleged "Invasion" Of The Friendswood Congressman's One-
Stop Political Sweatshop And Homestead

By Tim Fleck

For just a moment, it seemed as if there might be at least one good man
laboring at Congressman Steve Stockman's political
sweatshop-cum-residence when I dropped in last week for an unannounced visit.
Several raps on the front door had summoned a lanky young
African-American volunteer named Booker T. Stallworth. Despite being
confronted by a stranger with a press I.D. card clipped to his shirt pocket
and a bulky Sony tape recorder and microphone slung over his shoulder,
Stallworth flashed an all-American smile and graciously motioned me in.
Judging by the fallout generated by those two or three steps forward, I might
just as well have landed on the front lawn of Stockman's Friendswood
home in a black helicopter.

Once inside, my rather limited tour of the Stockman compound lasted about two
minutes before I was ordered out by an officious young Stockmanite
who refused to identify himself and displayed a distinct aversion to cameras.
No physical contact, shouting or foul language occurred during the brief
encounter. Yet within two hours of my visit, Stockman's Capitol Hill office
began spewing press releases at taxpayers' expense that accused me of
trespassing and forcing my way into the congressman's residence and physically
assaulting his campaign workers.

"This is outrageous!" Stockman was quoted as huffing in one "updated" release
(headlined "Stockman Stalked by Trespassing Reporter"). "I have
called the Harris County Sheriff's Department, the Capitol Hill police and the
[U.S. House] Sergeant-at-Arms' office. I am pressing charges for
trespass and assault and battery."

Stockman's office even suggested that I had terrorized the congressman's wife,
Patti Bullock Stockman, assuring the world that she "was unharmed"
after my visit. That insinuation was especially outlandish, given that I never
laid eyes on Patti Stockman (who, incidentally, has a $58,000-a-year job
at the Johnson Space Center that presumably would have required her presence
on that weekday afternoon).

Stockman himself hastily caught a plane back from D.C. "to address the
emergency," according to his congressional flack Cory Birenbaum, and
while in flight called a talk-radio station in Beaumont to beat the drums
about the alleged home invasion. Birenbaum told another reporter that
Stockman already had complained to Friendswood police, one of whom, the
spokesman related, declared that he "would have shot the son of a bitch
dead." But the chief of the Friendswood force told another local reporter that
his department hadn't heard from Stockman.

The Stockman press releases alerted area media outlets, whose reporters were
soon sorting through the lies produced by the Stockman propaganda
machine and writing their own stories about the incident. Birenbaum tried to
peddle one whopper that I had crashed the Stockman-Newt Gingrich
rally at a Galleria-area (StanNote! outside of Stockman's district) hotel last
month by falsely claiming to be a reporter with the Associated Press. The
only problem with that was that the A.P. reporter and I had both bantered with
Birenbaum at the event, and clearly identified ourselves to him. I had
received a press credential to the rally after displaying my Houston police
press I.D., which bears the name *Houston Press* in large, hard-to-miss
letters.

The lies continued later, when volunteer Stallworth filed a complaint with the
Harris County Sheriff's Department falsely claiming that I had pushed
him and shouted and screamed during my visit. (The recording I made of the
incident shows the conversation never broke a sonic sweat.) The
sheriff's department punted the complaint to the district attorney's office,
where Johnny Holmes' top assistant, Don Sticklin, was investigating at
press time.

In retrospect, Stallworth's dissembling probably explains what a seemingly
nice guy like him was doing hanging with the Stockman gang. By inviting
me into Stockman's political nest, though, Stallworth did prove that he hadn't
absorbed a central tenet of the political consulting business.

Photographer Nicole Fruge' and I drove to Friendswood to do some on-the-scene
investigation of Political Won Stop, a business registered in
Brazoria County that operates out of Stockman's residence and has received
$126,000 in payments from the congressman's campaign since January.
One of the listed principals of the firm, Chris Cupit, just happens to be the
Republican nominee for tax assessor-collector of Jefferson County, a
position that has been vacated by Democrat Nick Lampson, who is now running
for Congress against Stockman.

Cupit apparently has no official campaign office of his own in Jefferson
County, raising questions about whether resources from his and Stockman's
campaigns are being comingled in the rather cozy spaces of the Whitman Way
residence. That would be a violation of federal election law. And *The
Hill*, a D.C. based weekly that covers Congress and first reported on the
Political Won Stop operation, has questioned whether Stockman's
campaign keeps the appropriately legal "arms-length" distance from the
consultants, whose phone number is the same as Stockman's and who
presumably use the facilities available to others in the Stockman household.

*Press* calls to the house and Cupit and partner Jason Posey (who had
identified himself as a Stockman "volunteer" to *The Hill*) went unreturned,
so the only option seemed to be an on-site inspection. After I followed
Stallworth into the living room of the Stockman domicile, I met several
volunteers who claimed Cupit was not there. But the 1995 Saturn that was
reposing in Stockman's driveway at the time is registered to Cupit. The
front of the intensely claustrophobic house, where windows might otherwise be
found, is sealed by planking, and the only vista to the street is a
pinhole in the worn wooden front door. It hardly seems a residence fitting for
a U.S. congressman, even one whose employment history prior to his
1994 election was rather spotty.

The living room, cluttered with campaign signs and literature, opens on the
right into a garage office, where Political Won Stop apparently does its
work. A hallway on the left presumably leads to some sort of sleeping
quarters, where Patti may or may not have been crouching in fear while I was
in the front room.

Upon my entry, Stallworth summoned a dark-haired young man from the garage
office, who proved far less friendly. "You'll have to leave," he
announced in a rather whiny, nasal voice. (The following day, the *Press*
called Chris Cupit at his home in Groves and discovered that he possess a
whiny, nasal voice identical to that of the man who ordered me out of
Stockman's residence. But perhaps everybody who works for Stevie whines. On
the phone, Cupit flatly denied being present at Stockman's house during my
visit. Before we could ask what his car was doing in Stockman's
Driveway, Dupit said he had to go but promised to call us back shortly. He
never did, of course.)

At the Stockman compound, the Cupit sound-alike denied that Political Won Stop
operated out of the house, but tried to change the subject when I
reminded him that Stockman's own campaign finance filings list the company as
based there. "I know, but we have rights, too, and you've got to
honor our rights," he whined. He seemed especially terrified that photographer
Fruge', who was just outside the front door with her camera, might get
a shot of his face. He tried to close the front door, and another volunteer
then slammed it shut and pressed his back against it, barring any exit. I
asked the head whiner what he was so afraid of. "We're not afraid of
anything," he insisted, rather unconvincingly.

After being ordered once more to leave, I replied, Well, fine, open the door.
And don't hide too much. You guys are pathetic." And with that, my
alleged "invasion" of the congressman's castle was over. Minutes later,
several young Stockman volunteers drove up, and I asked them to locate
Chris Cupit for me. Once inside the house, they didn't come back out before
Fruge' and I departed.

Fruge' took a few more shots of Fort Stockman from the street while I went to
interview neighbors. Birenbaum would later claim she took photos
through the windows of the Stockman abode. The problem with that particular
lie is that there are no windows accessible from the front yard to take
photos through.

A woman who lives next door to Stockman seemed surprised to learn that the
bustling political office also housed a U.S. Congresseman and his wife.
"No, I do not know him," said Hanan Zadeh, when asked if she had had the
pleasure of meeting Steve Stockman.

Zadeh - who, unlike the boys next door, did not hesitate to identify herself -
seemed unperturbed by the continuous stream of people coursing in and
out of Stockman's alleged residence.

"We know this is just temporary for election time," she explained. "It's not a
problem."

But depending on how the money paid by Stockman to Political Won Stop is
actually used, it could be a big problem for the Freshman Prince of
Friendswood in the not-so-distant future.
--------------
"We're not afraid of anything."

They certainly aren't afraid of *god*!

Stan
============
Subj: It's Cupit, Ma'am, Not Stupid!
Date: 07/21/96

More from the "Liberal Media", from the 'Houston Press' June 20-26, 1996
these are pieces of -
---------------------
The Insider - compiled by Tim Fleck

TALES OF CUPIT (RHYMES WITH STUPID)

The squirrelly adventures of Congressman Steve Stockman's frat-house band of
consultants who call themselves Political Won Stop seem to know no
limits. *The Hill*, a Congress-covering weekly in the nation's capital, first
revealed that Stockman's re-election campaign had paid more than
$126,000 to the consultancy, which is owned by 26-year-old Chris Cupit and
25-year old Jason Posey and is listed on the congressman's campaign
disclosures as having the same Whitman Way address as stockman's combination
home and election headquarters just outside Friendswood. More
recently, *The Hill* reproted that the address Political Won Stop used on its
DBA filing in Brazoria County is a rental beach house at Surfside.
Always up for a summer jaunt to the Gulf, The Insider motored down to Surfside
over the weekend to discover that the rent house, which is named
the Hide-a-Way and sits just down the road from the Money Pit, was vacent. On
our return, we talked to the owner of the Hide-a-Way, Houstonian
Diane Hensley, who rented the house in the off-season to Cupit from last fall
to early spring. Hensley, a Stockman supporter and unsuccessful
legislative candidate this year, says she's known Cupit for two years and
isn't surprised he listed the home as his place of business.

The Hide-a-Way certainly is an appropriately named location for a business run
by the secrecy-obsessed Cupit, the Stockman operative and GOP
nominee for Jefferson County tax collector-assessor whom we encountered on our
unannounced visit to Stockman's home/campaign office two weeks
ago. Cupit refused to identify himself and hid his face when a *Press*
photographer approached. It's apparently typical behavior from Cupit, judging
by the account of an advertising sales type who tried to sell the Stockman
campaign some bumper stickers two days before we ventured into the grip
of Stockmania.

The salesman says he contacted the Stockman headquarters "and got ahold of a
man who wouldn't identify himself except by his first name, Chris."
It took the salesman two weeks to get an appointment with the mysterious
Chris, and only under circumstances that seem lifted from a spy novel.
"He would not give me the address of his headquarters," recounts the salesman,
"and he asked if I would meet him on the parking lot of the Burger
King in Baybrook Mall." (Stockman's home/office is located in a subdivision
behind the mall.) When the salesman finally rendezvoused with "Chris,"
the Stockman flunky again refused to give his last name but expressed interest
in the batch of see-through, peel-off "Stockman for Congress"
stickers the salesman had brought along to demonstrate. Chris refused to allow
the salesman to put one of the stickers on his car and instead insisted
they be handed over for future inspection, presumably by the congressman. At
one point, Chris displayed a trace of envy by allowing that he wished
he could afford the see-through numbers for his own campaign.

The salesman is still chuckling over the encounter. "I'm in my early
seventies, and I've done business in Houston for over 35 years. It's the first
time
I ever made a sales pitch on the parking lot of a Burger King!" (He was later
shown a photo of Chris Cupit and positively identified the stealth
candidate as the phantom of the Burger King.) Their meeting was two weeks ago,
and now the salesman can't get through to Chris. "The guy who
answers the phone, who's a nitwit, says, 'What is this regarding?' Then he
says, 'I don't know if he's here.' I say, 'Come on, kid, you're in a house and
you don't know who comes through the front door?' "

Cupit also hasn't acquired much name identification in Beaumont, the seat of
the county where he wants to be the head tax collector. When The
Insider went on a Beaumont call-in show last week to debunk the false claims
by Stockman that we had assaulted his campaign workers and
terrorized his wife, the radio host, Jack Piper, was unfamiliar with Cupit and
his candidacy. During Piper's show, we played an audio tape of our
encounter with the Stockmanites at the congressman's home, wheich included our
repeated question, "Is Chris Cupit here?" Afterward, a
hard-of-hearing pro-Stockman caller rang up to chastise the liberal media for
"calling people stupid." Why, she asked, did we have to call them
stupid? Piper had to gently correct her: "It's Cupit, ma'am, not stupid."


==========
Subj: Fleck Gets an 'E' (of the 'RWLTPC') (one whos job it is to destroy
anyone or anything that goes against the 'RWLTPC') !
-----
>From the Houston Press, July 4-10 issue, Letters section -
-----
The Stockman Welcome Mat

Having read the latest in your series of articles and "exposes" on Congressman
Steve Stockman, I have a few questions and observations for you:
Do you expect Stockman or his staff to welcome you into his home with open
arms when everything you've ever written about him has been decidedly
negative? Your stories and the tone of your paper are antything but objective.
You can't abide or report objectively on anything or anyone who is
Republican, nor can you ever report anything unfavorable on a Democrat.

You went to Stockman's place with your mind made up as to what you were going
to write. You refer to all his staffers as whiny. To me, you are the
ultimate whiner.

Jerry King
Houston
==========
Subj: More 'Take Stock(man), PLEASE!'

>From the Houston Chronicle, 7-21-96 -
------
STOCKMAN MOURNS DEATH OF 'SUPPORTER'

Alan Bernstein, Politics

U.S. Rep. Steve Stockman of Friendswood did not immediately try to put a self-
serving political spin on last week's TWA jetliner tragedy.

He waited almost two days.

On Friday afternoon, reporters received a news release on Stockman's
congressional stationery. It expresses the congressman's deep sorrow that
Houston victim's rights advocate Pam Lychner was killed in the explosion and
crash off Long Island.

The document, an official communication from Stockman's publicly funded
operation in Washington, D.C., was headlined "STOCKMAN
SUPPORTER DIES IN TWA TRAGEDY/ VICTIMS' ADVOCATE MADE TV AD FOR STOCKMAN."

With direct quotes from Stockman, the news release lauded Lychner for her
criminal justice reform work.

"Pam was a friend who will be dearly missed by my wife Patti and I," said
Stockman's written words. "Pam Lychner did a campaign television ad for
me in 1992. I got to know her and her story. She was a woman of uncommon
courage and inner strength and that is how I will remember her."

Stockman's top aide, Cory Birenbaum, said the news release was not a political
exploitation of a grim event.

"We are just trying to point things out that affect" the congressman,
Birenbaum explained. "It's simply to regret the fact that a personal friend of
his
passed away."

To say the least, written statements from Stockman and Birenbaum have been
controversial lately.

In June, another official news release from Stockman carried the headline
"STOCKMAN STALKED BY TRESPASSING REPORTER."

It told Stockman's version of a visit to his home and campaign headquarters in
Friendswood by a reporter for the Houston Press, at a time when
Stockman was in Washington.

Stockman sought criminal charges against the reporter. The district attorney's
office refused to file the charges. The reporter then filed a libel suit
against Stockman.

Birenbaum was the focus of national publicity recently for a private letter he
wrote to a Texas Monthly reporter after the magazine ran an
unflattering profile of Stockman.

The letter said the writer got her magazine job "for reasons I would refuse to
speculate upon in polite society. Hope your knees have healed up
nicely."

Birenbaum said he meant that the writer had to beg for employment, not that
she performed a sex act. ... 


                                                                           




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 02:15:20 -0800 (PST)
To: "Jared" 
Subject: For Your Entertainment (Was: Re: New Website is up!!)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199803151008.FAA09540@users.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Boundary..3990.1071713782.multipart/signed"

--Boundary..3990.1071713782.multipart/signed
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


In , on 03/14/98 
   at 12:17 PM, "Jared"  said:

>New Web page up at HTTP://WWW.INSTANTWEB.COM/~SALEM/

>CHECK IT OUT!! 

The below is for your entertainment only!! I am not responsible for any
mailbombs, plug pulling, or much worse faits that all spamers truly
deserve. 

Well after doing a little investigation I was able to track down our
"friend" here

After looking at the source code at the url above I found:

src="http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/1037/hacker.gif"

After looking at the source code at this URL:

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/1037



and

mailto:montanajack@hotmail.com

and



which brings us to Jalawoh Studios:

Ph: 1-619-588-1716 
Fax: 1-619-590-2493 
Mailing Address:  
Jalawoh Studios,
676 Grape St.,
El Cajon, Ca.
92021-5813

a division of Internet, Inc. (a delaware corporation)

Non-authoritative answer:
Name:    www.jalawoh.com
Address:  209.41.45.82


[rs.internic.net]
Jalawoh Studios (JALAWOH-DOM)
   676 Grape St
   El Cajon, Ca 92021
   US

   Domain Name: JALAWOH.COM

   Administrative Contact:
      Antonio, Manuel  (MA3191)  jalawoh@10MB.COM
      (619)590-2493
   Technical Contact, Zone Contact:
      Hostmaster, Rapidsite Inc  (HRI-ORG)  hostmaster@RAPIDSITE.NET
      561-994-6684
Fax- 561-994-6617
   Billing Contact:
      Antonio, Manuel  (MA3191)  jalawoh@10MB.COM
      (619)590-2493

   Record last updated on 25-Aug-97.
   Record created on 25-Aug-97.
   Database last updated on 14-Mar-98 04:13:01 EST.

   Domain servers in listed order:

   NS.NAMESERVERS.NET		207.158.192.61
   NS2.NAMESERVERS.NET		207.158.192.91



-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/esecure.html                        
---------------------------------------------------------------
Title:  FBI's Ten Most Wanted Fugitives 











FBI's TOP 10 WANTED LIST









Tattooman 

        Tattooman 






Conjuror 

        Conjuror !-->



|Oracle| 

        |Oracle|

        

        

         



RSnake 

        Rsnake

 



Mantis 

        Mantis

         















Photon Rain 

        Photon Rain

         





        FBI's Ten Most Wanted 

Fugitives 



Spikeman 

        Spikeman 

         















Transmitt 

        Transmitt 





Snake Plisken 

        Snake Plisken

         



 Anon 

        Anon

         

                     



Sgt Rock 

        Sgt Rock

         

         

        











The FBI

is offering rewards for information leading to the apprehension

of Ten Most Wanted Fugitives. Check each fugitive page for the

specific amount.









Freedom Knights - 

El Fuckero -

FBI Whores - 

Technotronic's Place

Copyright '98 IVAll rights ReservedHacking, Inc.




The page





Title: real aliens roswell new mexico 1947




















Saucer Crash, Roswell 1947














Note the Aliens around the craft
and the N.M. State Trooper  in the background, upper right corner.



 The Story
 

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The untold story of what really happened 50 years ago in Roswell New Mexico 1947.



(c) j a l a w o h . s t u d i o s
all rights reserved 1997

 Autopsy Report



 Control Panel



 Area51 Tours



 Our Statistics



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 Free Aliens



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 Add URL 






Note: ...this page designed to be viewed in as low as 640X480 video resolution...in recognition of the many older machines globally still in use...
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Tag-O-Matic: Dogs crawl under gates, software crawls under Windows!


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--Boundary..3990.1071713782.multipart/signed--



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 19:38:57 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: A little Paranoid, PUNKS?
Message-ID: <199803150338.EAA10482@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


StanSquncr wrote:
> Subject: A little Paranoid, PUNKS?

Dimitri? Is that you, Dimitri?






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 19:39:34 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: (no subject)
Message-ID: <199803150339.EAA10507@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Information Security wrote:
>    >   > Guy --
>    >   > First you and Vulis flame each others, and then
>    >   > you start claiming that VZNuri's postings are really Vulis,
>    >   > and now you're claiming that postings from Toto's machines
>    >   > are really Vulis.  Perhaps *you're* really Vulis?
>    >
>    >     Bill Frantz is *really* Vulis.
>    >     Bill Stewart is *really* Toto.
> 
> What are you trying to say?
> 
> A point in every direction is like a point in no direction at all?

Sometime ago there was a post to the list which made more sense than
all of the other finger-pointing posts, combined, which have proclaimed
this-or-that entity to be a tentacle/testicle of one or another of the
list members.
The post was by someone claiming to be the "only" real member of the
cypherpunks list. It told how he had, being a lonely loser whom no one
would communicate with, started the cypherpunks mailing list and posted
to it under several personas, hoping to generate interest and have other
people join the list. It seems that his efforts began to escalate and
take on a life of their own, and he eventually had developed all of the
personas that currently existed on the list, and that no one else had
ever actually joined the list, at all.

"In reality, we talk only to ourselves, but sometimes we talk loud
 enough that others may hear us."
        Kahil Gibran, The Prophet

2-2





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 19:55:30 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: In Your EAR...
Message-ID: <199803150355.EAA12419@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Other possible destinations can be found at:
http://cgibin.erols.com/ivsw/presspg1.htm

StarShip CowBoy wrote:
>   Suggestions for final destinations for your illegal and
> prosecutable communication:
> ~To yourself, at both U.S. and foreign email server sites.
> ~To your immediate family members at U.S. and foreign email
>   server sites.
> ~To foreign embassies of U.S. allies.
> ~To foreign embassies of U.S. enemies.
> ~To U.S. embassies in foreign countries.
> ~To foreign government email addresses, with instructions
>   for delivery to individuals presently incarcerated for
>   terrorist crimes.
> ~To anywhere you damn well please...






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 19:58:16 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: In Your EAR...
Message-ID: <199803150358.EAA12782@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Six wrote:
> 
>   Suggestions for final destinations for your illegal and
> prosecutable communication:


Full list at: http://www.bxa.doc.gov/Text/1_denial.txt


                           U.S. DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE
                         BUREAU OF EXPORT ADMINISTRATION
                   Table of Denial Orders Currently in Effect

                           (Revised March 6, 1998) 

TABLE OF DENIAL ORDERS CURRENTLY IN EFFECT

(a) Contents

This table lists orders that currently deny export privileges in
whole or in part.  Orders are published in full in the Federal Register
as
cited in the column entitled, "Federal Register Citation."

(2) Publication of orders.  New or amended denial orders are published
in the
Federal Register as they are issued, and their issuance announced in
Export
Administration Bulletins.  Although  diligent efforts have been made to
ensure
the accuracy of the information in this table, the Federal Register is
the
authoritative source for denial orders.  

(3) Table: This table is updated as new orders are promulgated and
existing
orders expire.  The table does not appear in the Code of Federal
Regulations. 
Paper copies of this table are available from:

Office of Export Services
P.O. Box 273
Washington, D.C. 20044

(b) Effect of Denial Orders

Section 787.12 of the Export Administration Regulations (15 CFR 787.12)
makes
it unlawful, without prior specific authorization from Export
Administration,
for any person to:

(1) Apply for, obtain, or use any license, Shipper's Export Declaration,
bill
of lading, or other export control document relating to an export or
reexport
of commodities or technical data by, to, or for another person then
subject to
an order revoking or denying his export privileges or then excluded from
practice before the Bureau of Export Administration, or

(2) Order, buy, receive, use, sell, deliver, store, dispose of,
forward, transport, finance, or otherwise service or participate;

(i) in any transaction which may involve any commodity or
technical data exported or to be exported from the United States.

(ii) in any reexport thereof, or

(iii) in any other transaction which is subject to the Export
Administration Regulations, if the person denied export privileges may
obtain any benefit from or have any interest in, directly or indirectly,
any of these transactions.

(3) A denial order applies not only to the persons or
firms named in the order, but may also, after notice and opportunity for
comment, be made applicable to other persons with whom the respondent(s)
may then or thereafter be related by ownership, control, position of
responsibility, affiliation, or other connection in the conduct of trade
or related services. (See Section 788.3(b) of the Export Administration
Regulations (15 CRF 788.3(b))).

(4)  Some denial orders have different restrictions than those noted
above.
Summaries of the export privileges that each order denies are printed in
the column headed "Export Privileges Affected".  The exact scope of the
denial is set forth in the applicable Federal Register Notice(s).

If you have questions about the scope of a particular denial order, you
may
contact the Office of Enforcement Support, U.S. Department of Commerce,
Room
4065, 14th Street and Constitution Ave., N.W., Washington, D.C. 20230, 
Telephone (202) 482 4255, Fax (202) 482-0971.
 
                                                                 Federal
Name and Address   Effective   Expiration    Export Privileges  
Register
                     Date         Date          Affected        
Citation


Abelairas,          6/5/95      6/5/05        General           60 F.R.
31140
Amancio J.                                    and
validated                   
a.k.a. Gonzalez,                              licenses, all 
Jesus                                         commodities,
6486 S.W. 9th                                 any destination,
Miami, Florida                                also exports
33144                                         to Canada
and d.b.a
Estrella Del 
Caribe Import 
and Export Inc.,
5529 S.W. 9th Street
Miami, Florida 
33144


Ace, Ian            8/8/97     8/8/17        Standard         62 F.R.
43503    
                                                                
8/14/97   
with addresses at

4 Mimosa Way
Pinelands
South Africa

A. Rosenthal (PTY) Ltd.
P.O. Box 3721
13 Loop Street
Cape Town
South Africa

  and

A. Rosenthal (PTY) Ltd.
P.O. Box 44198
65 7th Street
Denmyr Building
2104 Linden
South Africa

ADT Analog and       9/10/81    Indefinite   General            46 F.R.
46154
 Digital Technik,                            and validated        
9/17/81
8019 Niederseeon,                            licenses, all       46 F.R.
19290
 House 21,                                   commodities,         
3/30/81
Federal Republic                             any destination,
 of Germany                                  also exports
                                             to Canada.
                                             See: Bruchausen,
                                                  Werner J.



Aeriotechnics         4/11/83  5/31/01       General            47 F.R.
18403
 (Pte) Ltd.                                  and validated        
4/29/82
 and Claypro                                 licenses, all      48 F.R.
16527
 (Pte) Ltd.                                  commodities,         
4/18/83
Suite 606,                                   any destination,
 6th Floor                                   also exports
Colombo Court                                to Canada.
and 4E                                       See: Kwik, Richard
 Dayson Road
Singapore
Agnese, Andree         7/11/85 Indefinite    General            50 F.R.
29244
22 Rue du                                    and validated        
7/18/85
 11 November 1918                            licenses, all
Pantin                                       commodities,
France                                       any destination,
                                             also exports
                                             to Canada.
                                             See: Agnese,
                                                  Rodolphe

Agnese, Helene        7/11/85  Indefinite    General            50 F.R.
29245
37 Rue de                                    and validated        
7/18/85
 la Quintinie                                licenses, all
Paris 75015                                  commodities,
France                                       any destination,
                                             also exports
                                             to Canada.
                                             See: Agnese,
                                                  Rodolphe

Agnese, Rodolphe      3/15/90  3/15/00       General            55 F.R.
10641
 individually and                            and validated        
3/22/90
 d/b/a Development                           licenses, all
 Engineering                                 commodities,
 and Electronics                             any destination,
37 Rue de                                    also exports
 la Quintinie                                to Canada.
75010 Paris
France

Agnese, Saba          7/11/85  Indefinite    General            50 F.R.
29244
 a/k/a Saba Ambaye                           and validated        
7/18/85
37 Rue de                                    licenses, all
 la Quintinie                                commodities,
Paris 75015                                  any destination,
France                                       also exports
                                             to Canada.
                                             See: Agnese,
                                                  Rodolphe


Alex Goh              9/10/93  9/10/13       See: Goh,          58 F.R.
48821
                                                  Sian Lake       
9/20/93

Ali Reza              11/9/93  7/26/99       General            58 F.R.
60842
 Foyuzi Yousefi                              and validated        
11/18/93
P.O. Box 1341                                licenses, all
 and                                         commodities,
38 Firouzkh                                  any destination,
Tajresh,                                     also exports
Tehran, Iran                                 to Canada.


Alkadi, Essam         2/20/98   2/20/01      Standard            63 F.R.
10188
P.O. Box 201                                                       
3/4/98
Dammam 31411
Saudi Arabia

Al-Kadi. Essam       2/20/98   2/20/01       Standard            63 F.R.
10188 
P.O. Box 201                                                        
3/4/98
Dammam 31411
Saudi Arabia

 

Almori, Robert        10/8/87  Indefinite    General            52 F.R.
38495
80-82 Rue                                    and validated        
10/16/87
 Saint Dominique                             licenses, all
Paris 7, France                              commodities,
                                             any destination,
                                             also exports
                                             to Canada.

Ambaye, Saba          7/11/85  Indefinite    General            50 F.R.
29244
a/k/a Saba Agnese                            and validated        
7/18/85
37 Rue de                                    licenses, all
 la Quintinie                                commodities,
Paris 75015,                                 any destination,
 France                                      also exports
                                             to Canada.
                                             See: Agnese,
                                                  Rodolphe


American              4/23/90  4/23/05       See: Tai,          55 F.R.
18147
Semiconductor,                                    Philip T.J.     
5/1/90
Inc.
Los Gatos,
California

American              6/26/95  6/26/05       General            60 F.R.
34504
Technology Trading                           and validated         
7/3/95
Group                                        licenses, all
44 Montgomery St.                            commodities,
Suite 500                                    any destination,
San Francisco,                               also exports
California  94104                            to Canada.   


Amiri, Reza           9/25/93  9/25/13       General            56 F.R.
58552
Panjtan                                      and validated      11/20/91
and
a/k/a                                        licenses, all      57 F.R.
21057
 Amiri, Ray                                  commodities,       5/18/92
and
individually                                 any destination,   57 F.R.
24242
 with an address                             also exports       6/8/92
and
 at:                                         to Canada.         57 F.R.
57155
13165                                                           12/3/92
and
 E. Essex Dr.                                                   58 F.R.
31361
Cerritos,                                                       6/2/93
and
 California                                                     58 F.R.
51610
and d/b/a                                                       10/4/93
Ray Amiri                                                       60 F.R.
8221
Computer                                                        
2/13/95    
Consultants
 now a/k/a CCC Inc.
with addresses at:
and
Heinrichstrasse
 9-11
D-6000 Frankfurt 1,
 Germany
and
c/o Pars Hafezeh
Mirdamad Avenue,
Mohsseni Square,
Farnaz Street
Tehran, Iran

Annexfield, Ltd.      12/14/84 Indefinite    General            49 F.R.
49666
152 Budbrooke Rd.                            and validated        
12/21/84
Warwick,                                     licenses, all
 United Kingdom                              commodities,
                                             any destination,
                                             also exports to
                                             Canada
                                             See: O'Hara,
                                                  Daniel J.

Appelberg             6/19/89  6/19/04       See: Appelberg,    54 F.R.
26816
 Financial                                        Lennart         
6/26/89
 Services
Saltajobaden,
 Sweden

Appelberg,            6/19/89  6/19/04       General            54 F.R.
26816
 Lennart (Lennert)                           and validated        
6/26/89
 individually                                licenses, all
 and d/b/a                                   commodities,
Appelberg                                    any destination,
 Financial                                   also exports
 Services                                    to Canada.
Filip
 Manssonsvag 1,
S-13300
 Saltajobaden, Sweden

Applied Systems       12/14/84  Indefinite   General            49 F.R.
49666
 Methods                                     and validated        
12/21/84
and Technology                               licenses, all
 (ASMAT)                                     commodities,
Rochford, Essex                              any destination,
United Kingdom                               also exports
                                             to Canada.
                                             See: O'Hara,
                                                  Daniel J.



ATC Lab               12/5/89  12/5/99       See: Schmidt,      54 F.R.
51048
 Electronic                                       A.S.S.          
12/12/89
 Service,
Segelflygsgatan 35,
122 52 Enskede,
 Sweden

Attia, Ben H.          10/30/97  10/30/12    
Standard                       
 aka Attia, Adnan
1614 Nine Island Boulevard
Miami Beach, FL 33134
  dba General Polyphase, Inc.
15 rue de Kamel Attaturk
1001 Tunis, Tunisia

Avomair Ltd.          12/14/84 Indefinite    General            49 F.R.
49666
a/k/a                                        and validated        
12/21/84
 Microcircuit                                licenses, all
 Technology                                  commodities,
3 Featherby Way                              any destination,
Purdey's                                     also exports
 Industrial                                  to Canada.
 Estate                                      See: O'Hara,
Rochford,                                         Daniel J.
 Essex,
 United Kingdom

Barbarits, Bruno      5/3/88   5/3/08        General            53 F.R.
16441
 individually                                and validated        
5/9/88
 and d/b/a                                   licenses, all
Cosmotrans AG                                commodities,
 a/k/a                                       any destination,
 Cosmotrans Ltd.                             also exports
P.O. Box 30978                               to Canada
Fracht West                                  See: Wirth, Hans
 Building
Office 274
 CH 8058
Zurich,
 Switzerland
 and
Cosmotrans
 USA, Inc.
JFK International
 Airport
Jamaica, New York


Behrmann,             1/23/92  5/10/00       General            57 F.R.
3613
 Symone Morris                               and validated        
1/30/92
11 Goldfinch Ct.,                            licenses, all
 #505                                        commodities,
Toronto, Canada                              any destination,
                                             also exports
                                             to Canada.

Belgium               3/5/91   3/5/01        See: Sanders,      56 F.R.
10537
 Trading                                          Marcel          
3/13/91
 Company
Lokeren S.A.
Sijpstratt 6 9101
Lokeren, Belgium



Berg, H. Leonard      5/12/94  1/29/02       General            59 F.R.
27531
750 Kappock Street                           and validated        
5/27/94
Apartment 103                                licenses, all
Bronx, New York                              commodities,
 and                                         any destination,
at the time the                              also exports 
order was issued                             to Canada
incarcerated at:
U.S. Bureau
 of Prisons
Low Security
 Correctional
 Institution-Allenwood
White Deer, Pennsylvania


Beta Computer        6/13/95   6/13/05      General             60 F.R.
32300
Trading Pte.                                and validated         
6/21/95
Limited                                     licenses, all
One Rockor Canal                            commodities,
Road                                        any destination,
Sim Lin Square                              also exports
# 06-67                                     to Canada
Singapore, 0718                             (See Waldemar,
                                            Znamierowski
                                            and
                                            Prandecki, Paul     


Bin Wu                9/7/93   9/7/03       See: Wu, Bin       59 F.R.
47302
Virginia Beach,                                                   
9/15/94
 Virginia

    
Bose, Sidhartha       6/16/95 6/16/05        General           60 F.R.
32940 
a/k/a/ Dr. Bose                              and validated        
6/26/95
individually and                             licenses, all
d.b.a.                                       commodities,
Perfect Technologies,                        any destination,
LTD.                                         also exports 
212 Golders                                  to Canada   
Green Road
London, NW11 9BY
England
and
Ragunathan,
Thirunavkkarasu
individually and 
d.b.a.
W.K. Agencies
and as
Computer Focus
Services PTE. LTD.
with an address at
18 Jalan Kechil, #06-22
Eastern Mansion
Singapore 1543


Bose, Dr.               6/16/95  6/16/05     See Bose, Sidhartha  60
F.R. 32940
                                                                     
6/26/95
 
Brandstetter, Herbert 6/15/87  6/15/07       General            52 F.R.
23325
 c/o Scan Trade                              and validated        
6/19/87
 Handelsgesellschaft                         licenses, all
 m.b.H.                                      commodities,
Wiednerhauptstrasse 135                      any destination,
A-1050 Vienna,                               also exports
 Austria                                     to Canada.

Brero, Mario          6/26/95  6/26/00       General            60 F.R.
34505
Apt. 87                                      and validated         
7/3/95 
Route de Bougy 1170                          licenses, all
Aubonne, Vaud                                commodities,
Switzerland                                  any destination,
                                             also exports
                                             to Canada.

Brownhill, David      9/11/95  10/6/03       General            60 F.R.
48961
13 Robin Road                                and validated        
9/21/95
Northcliff Ext. 12                           licenses, all
Johannesburg, South Africa                   commodities,
                                             any destination,
                                             also exports
                                             to Canada.

Bruchhausen,          3/24/81  Indefinite    General            46 F.R.
19290
 Werner J.                                   and validated        
3/30/81
D8019 Niederseeon                            licenses, all
Federal Republic                             commodities,
 of Germany                                  any destination,
                                             also exports
                                             to Canada.

Burger, Peter         3/25/93  3/25/13       General            58 F.R.
18368
 individually  and                           and validated        
4/9/93
 as agent for                                licenses, all
Helling KG                                   commodities,
54 Sylvesteralle                             any destination,
 22000                                       also exports
Hamburg 54,                                  to Canada.
 Germany
 and
Int'l. Business
 Connections
11 rue Aldringen
1-2960 Luxembourg,
 Luxembourg

Butcher, Brian A.     3/21/86  3/21/06       General            51 F.R.
10418
a/k/a                                        and validated        
3/26/86
Brian A.                                     licenses, all
 Moller-Butcher                              commodities,
 c/o Contel Equipment                        any destination,
5 Bear Court                                 also exports
Danshill East                                to Canada.
 Industrial Estate                           See: M.E.S.
Basingstroke,                                    Equipment, Inc.
 Hampshire
England

Caesar                12/19/90 12/19/05      General            55 F.R.
53016
 Electronics, Inc.                           and validated        
12/26/90
40C, Corbin Avenue                           licenses, all
Bayshore, New York                           commodities,
                                             any destination,
                                             also exports
                                             to Canada


CAE Services          5/29/91  5/29/11       General            56 F.R.
25654
Lowengasse 2A                                and validated        
6/5/91
A-1030 Vienna,                               licenses, all
 Austria                                     commodities,
                                             any destination,
                                             also exports
                                             to Canada.
                                             See: Kovar,
                                                  Alexander

Callaghan,            1/23/92  7/20/00       General            57 F.R.
3614
 Maryanne E.                                 and validated        
1/30/92
39 Congress St.                              licenses, all
Warwick, Rhode Island                        commodities,
                                             any destination,
                                             also exports
                                             to Canada.

Carlson, Paul C.      3/5/85   3/5/00        General            50 F.R.
9699
P.O. Box 3125                                and validated        
3/11/85
Brockton,                                    licenses, all      50 F.R.
18281
 Massachusetts                               commodities,         
4/30/85
 and                                         any destination,
87 Springhill Avenue                         also exports
Bridgewater,                                 to Canada.
 Massachusetts                               See: Contel
                                                  Equipment

CCC Inc.              9/25/93  9/25/13       See: Amiri, Reza   57 F.R.
57155
Frankfurt, Germany                                               
12/3/92 and
 c/o Pars                                                       58 F.R.
31361
 Hafezeh                                                          
6/2/93 and
Tehran, Iran                                                    58 F.R.
51610
                                                                 
10/4/93 and
                                                                60 F.R.
8221
                                                                   
2/13/95

Chan, Anthony         12/6/84  Indefinite    General            49 F.R.
48591
a/k/a                                        and validated        
12/13/84
Chan Sum-Tai Anthony                         licenses, all
c/o Shuttle                                  commodities,
 Long Co., Ltd.                              any destination,
Ka Wah Bank                                  also exports
 Center Building                             to Canada.
19th Floor                                   See: Wysh Data
232 Des Voeux Road                                Systems, Ltd.
Hong Kong Central

Chan Sum-Tai Anthony  12/6/84  Indefinite    See: Wysh Data     49 F.R.
48591
a/k/a                                             Systems, Ltd.   
12/13/84
 Anthony Chan
 c/o Shuttle
 Long Co. Ltd.
Ka Wah Bank
 Center Building
19th Floor
235 Des Voeux Road
Hong Kong Central

Chemco                8/7/89   8/26/98       See: Walaschek,    54 F.R.
8582
Seigburger                                        Peter;          
3/1/89
 Strasse 223                                      Colimex;      54 F.R.
33253
5000 Cologne 21,                                  Far-Trade      8/14/89
and
Federal Republic                                  Pharma-       56 F.R.
57875
 of Germany                                       Vertrieb        
11/14/91
                                                  GmbH


Chua Tok Peng         9/10/93  9/10/13       See: Tok Peng      58 F.R.
48821
                                                  Chua            
9/20/93





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 23:33:44 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: RE: get me off/ME TOO!
Message-ID: <199803150655.HAA05046@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Dumbass, if you didn't have the brain cells to understand what this list is about, don't play with your mommy's computer and e-mail account.  Open a dos prompt and type "FDISK/U" and all your troubles will be over. 
 (what a fucked up band name)

[SNIP]
>Me too.  Take me off of your stinkin' list.
>
>Stan and the Sequencers
>




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 00:23:29 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: New Website is up!!
Message-ID: <199803150745.IAA11699@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Considering the one-line content of the Web page, this appears
to have been a troll, perhaps aimed at gathering an instant
snapshot database of IP addresses/domains/reverse lookups of
people with an interest in crypto.

Don't go there. 

'Scuse me, someone's knocking at my door...
NO CARRIER

----- Original Message -----
To:               cypherpunks@toad.com, coderpunks@toad.com, cryptography@c2.net
Date sent:        	Sat, 14 Mar 1998 10:17:45 -0700
From:             "Jared" 
Copies to:        cypherpunks-announce@toad.com
Subject:          New Website is up!!
Organization:     MailCity  (http://www.mailcity.com:80)
Send reply to:    "Jared" 

New Web page up at HTTP://WWW.INSTANTWEB.COM/~SALEM/

CHECK IT OUT!! 


THANKS!!


   -CypherPunks 



Get your FREE, private e-mail
account at http://www.mailcity.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 01:44:11 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Killing Stan the Right Way
Message-ID: <199803150944.KAA24525@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Tim May wrote:
> When you have been on the list longer, and when you go back and read the
> messages from the early years of the list, you will understand that it has
> never been the "Cypherpunk Way" to do the work others can do for themselves.

That's right. After glancing through some of the early posts to the
cypherpunks list one realizes that many of them had to walk ten miles
to get to a computer--always uphill and often in a blinding snowstorm.

That was back in the days when Americans still knew how to make a
big, high-powered car, but cypherpunks didn't use them to get to
their computers because they weren't namby-pamby momma's boys like
those godless commie A(h)OLs who get their peckers hammered on the
cypherpunks list and then complain because they can't get off.

Has anyone seen my shoes? I can't find my shoes...





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: HappyHacker 
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 11:55:52 -0800 (PST)
To: PNYTRO@worldnet.att.net
Subject: Webpage just recreated...
Message-ID: <350B43C500000747@mail.uep.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


hello everyone, I am happyhacker.
i sent you all an email yesterday
about my new site being up at HTTP://WWW.INSTANTWEB.COM/~salem/
and some of you replied about it not being up!
Well, it is NOW up! so please go and enjoy it! 

thanks!!

                             HappyHacker
                                 CypherPunks






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: buzzreg@central.cnet.com
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 14:41:39 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Welcome to Builder buzz!
Message-ID: <199803152241.OAA23425@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Welcome, cypherpunks.

You have registered as a provisional user for Builder Buzz. To become a full
member, please email the following member code line back to us, so we can
confirm your email address. With most email programs, you can simply reply to
this message. (If your email program doesn't include the previous message in
its replies, you may need to cut and paste the member code line into the reply
message.)

   MEMBER CODE: 52ce L3N9gKa0 

Thank you for joining us, and we look forward to having you visit often and
participate completely in the Builder Buzz conversations!

Regards,
Dan Shafer
master builder and Builder buzz host




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: WebChat Broadcasting System 
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 14:46:12 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Validation Code for WBS Access (cypherpunks, 46910009)
Message-ID: <199803152246.OAA20806@webchat1.wbs.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


THANKS FOR JOINING US, cypherpunks!

For full access to WBS using this handle you must validate your account.
To do so, please complete either of the following two options:

< Option #1 >  Reply to this email without altering the subject line.

This WILL NOT WORK if the subject line of your reply email is altered
in any way.  Some email serving software changes the subject line
automatically. If you are unsure whether yours does or does not,
follow the validation instructions in option #2.

< Option #2 > Go to the WBS Validation Page at
< http://wbs.net/validate.html > and enter
your account information exactly as shown below.

Handle:  cypherpunks
Password: cypherpunks
Validation #: 46910009

PASSWORDS ARE CASE SENSITIVE (e.g. if your password is "bob",
entering "BOB" in any password field on WBS will not work)

If you've decided you don't want this handle,
you can delete it by doing the following:

Go to the WBS Identity, User Editing at
< http://wbs.net/cgi-bin/user_edit.cgi >
Select "delete one of your handles" , then scroll down
and enter the handle and password exactly as shown below
and click "login".
Repeat on next page and click "delete".

Handle:  cypherpunks
Password:  cypherpunks

Thanks for being a part of the greatest community on earth!

By validating your account you acknowledge having read the WBS system
rules at < http://wbs.net/wbs/rules.html > and agree to abide by them.

If you do not believe you registered this handle on WBS, someone may
have accidentally entered your email address - or - someone may be
using your email address without your permission.

Registration to WBS is free and harmless and unless you follow the
directions above to validate the account, it will remain inactive and
unusable.  Why don't ya check us out?  < http://wbs.net >




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Kevlar 
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 16:12:46 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Welcome to Builder buzz!
In-Reply-To: <199803152241.OAA23425@toad.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980315161152.007b4780@mail.smartlink.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Has anyone tried this out yet? Is it some lame scam to get alot of e-mail
addresses? The lack of information about what the hell "Builder Buzz" makes
me wonder...


At 02:37 PM 3/15/98, you wrote:
>Welcome, cypherpunks.
>
>You have registered as a provisional user for Builder Buzz. To become a full
>member, please email the following member code line back to us, so we can
>confirm your email address. With most email programs, you can simply reply to
>this message. (If your email program doesn't include the previous message in
>its replies, you may need to cut and paste the member code line into the
reply
>message.)
>
>   MEMBER CODE: 52ce L3N9gKa0 
>
>Thank you for joining us, and we look forward to having you visit often and
>participate completely in the Builder Buzz conversations!
>
>Regards,
>Dan Shafer
>master builder and Builder buzz host
>
>




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSquncr 
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 14:44:06 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: get me off/ME TOO!
Message-ID: <9af5281a.350c596f@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


In a message dated 98-03-15 02:54:47 EST, A real  "nobody" writes:

<< Dumbass, if you didn't have the brain cells to understand what this list is
about, don't play with your mommy's computer and e-mail account.  Open a dos
prompt and type "FDISK/U" and all your troubles will be over. >>

Look Nobody, I don't think that even ONE cypherpunk (other than yourself) is
stupid enough to think I would do it.


<<  (what a fucked up band name)  >>
   
Yes, that's why we changed it from the "Nobodies" to "Nobody's Business"  {BIG
GRIN]

Stan Rosenthal,
Nobody's Business -
http://members.aol.com/StanSquncr/home.html

PS: 'Stan and the Sequencers' opens for the Brave Combo,  March 27, at the
FabSat in Houston, Be There Or Be Square (and if you're a Liberatarian or a
Republican, you can be there AND be square!)




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSquncr 
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 14:44:30 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Nobody's Business
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


In a message dated 98-03-15 05:10:13 EST, nobody@REPLAY.COM writes:

<< That was back in the days when Americans still knew how to make a
 big, high-powered car, but cypherpunks didn't use them to get to
 their computers because they weren't namby-pamby momma's boys like
 those godless commie A(h)OLs who get their peckers hammered on the
 cypherpunks list and then complain because they can't get off. >>

It's always easy to tell who's nerves I touch, notice the "McCarthyism" - "
... commie ... ", you guys can't hide, you're too fucking stupid.

Register and vote against Conservatives, Liberatarians and Republicans.

And Nobody, call yourself for what you are, a "DittoHead" (ie: a "stupid,
fucking moron").

Oh, but the REAL name for joker's such as "nobody"?

He's a member of the "Know-nothing" movement.  Look it up in a Dictionary.

<< Has anyone seen my shoes? I can't find my shoes... >>

That's because you're a "stupid fucking moron."

Stan




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Ray Paradis" 
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 15:04:44 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: New Forum In Town
Message-ID: <001e01bd5066$a9ba7f60$890dadce@crc3.concentric.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Grand opening of the Webmasters Club. Webmasters Club is your forum to
discuss anything and everything related to building and maintaining a web
presence.

* Notice * We are looking for moderators if you are interested please email
me.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Spdrcr7719 
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 15:10:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Too Hot!!!
Message-ID: <6f8cdd6f.350c5ebf@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


   This really is a blast.  With all these movies coming out about virtual
reality, it's amazing to actually have a virtual reality program like this 
for your own computer.

   The Virtual Girlfriend and Virtual Boyfriend are artificial intelligence
programs for your IBM PC or compatible and also for MACINTOSH. You 
can watch them, talk to them, ask them questions, tell them secrets, and 
relate with them.  Watch them as you ask them to take off different clothes
and guide them through many different activities.  Watch and participate 
in the hottest sexual activities available on computer, including: several
sexual positions, using many unique toys, even bringing in multiple partners.
This is no doubt one of the most realistic, sexually stimulating computer
games available.  They will remember your name, birthday, your likes and 
your dislikes.  Every time you start the program, they say different things, 
and act differently.  Each time, they have a different personality. With the 
VGA digital graphics, the Virtual Girlfriend and Virtual Boyfriend software 
have some of the hottest, sexiest graphics out there.  You can actually 
hear their voice as they talk to you.  This is the first adult software title
that was designed for both heterosexual and homosexual people.  We
would like you to try the actual full copy out before it is put on the market
this spring. It will be sold for 1/7 of the actual price (only $7.95) until we
can get back some information on what people think of the program before
it hits the stores.  Please give it a try and write back any comments.
   Thank you.

     Virtual Girlfriend and Virtual Boyfriend are artificial intelligence 
programs, meaning they are completely interactive.  It would be just like 
if you were talking to someone.  You can actually have simple 
conversations.  Their attitudes change with the different things you say, 
so you can say things that will upset them, and then say things that will 
please them.  The more you play/talk with them, the more you learn what 
they can do, and what they like to do.  It's easy to install and instructions
are easy to follow.

         ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Special Offer~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
       *Get two more new and exciting adult games for an additional $13.45*
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                          Here are two of the best adult games ever!!

     This is to inform you about the new adult game that VCS Magazine
rated "The best game of "97" and gave an "Outstanding ****" (4 stars).
"The Search for Paradise is no doubt one of the greatest XXX adult games 
available".  The first game where it is as much fun as it is a turn on!
Travel the world to every continent, every country you can think of, and meet
some of the most beautiful women in existence.  These women will treat 
you like a king and obey your every command.  Any sexual wish you can 
think of,  these women know it all.  There is a certain paradise for every
guy out there, and this game will have them all.  This game uses real 
models, digital video, and digital sound to make it as realistic as possible.
You will feel like you're in the same room as the girl you're talking to!!!

     The last adult game we are going to inform you about is the newly
released "Club Celebrity X".  Imagine being in a club with some very 
beautiful, well known, ACTUAL celebrities that with skill, will be making 
you breakfast in bed the next day.  These girls you have seen on television,
magazines, and billboard ads, and now they are on your computer, begging
for action.  Each girl you will recognize and you won't believe your eyes 
when you got them in your own bedroom.  This game is hot, and once you
start playing, you won't be able to stop.  


******************************************************************************
**********
                                (((((((((LIMITED TIME ONLY))))))))
T00 H0T!!  for Virtual girlfriend.... These were too sexually graphic to
include in VG and VB.  These are some of most arousing & attractive 
models ever put in one collection.  You MUST be 18 or over to purchase 
& not easily offened.
******************************************************************************
***********

*Required: 386 or better, 4 meg ram or better, Windows 3.1 or higher 
(Win95 is fine), sound card or CD-rom are optional.  Games are given 
either on CD-rom or compressed 3.5" diskettes.  Required is VGA graphics, 
and a hard drive.  Macintosh requires at least 4 meg of ram.  They will run 
on any IBM or MACINTOSH compatible.  If you are interested and would 
like to order a copy, then you can read the mailing instructions below.  
Games come in an unmarked package and are sent out at most 4 days 
after the order is received.  You are not put on any mailing lists
whatsoever, guaranteed.  ~At your request, the programs can come with
a password protection utility that only allows the program to run when the
correct password is entered.~


To order,  please send to:             
                                        C&M PROMOTIONS
                                         6185 Magnolia Ave.
                                              Suite# 360
                                       Riverside CA, 92506
                                    Phone # 1-888-341-1643 

        Please fill out the following form and mail it to the address above.
              (Feel free to write out the order form by hand, if you wish).
      ________________________________________________________
   __________________________ (Cut here)_________________________

                   send to:             C&M Promotions
                                      6185 Magnolia Ave. #360
                                          Riverside CA, 92506


Your Name __________________________________ Date ___________

Address _____________________________________________________

City ____________________________ State ___ Zip Code ____________

Phones: Home  ___________________E-mail Address _______________

Do you use a?  IBM__  MACINTOSH __
Would you like? 3.5 Disks__ CD ROM__ 
 
(   ) Virtual
Girlfriend..............................................................$7.95
(   ) Virtual
Boyfriend.............................................................$7.95
(   ) Both Virtual Girlfriend and
Boyfriend................................$13.95
(   ) The Search for Paradise & Club Celebrity X......................$13.45
(   ) Too HOT for VG &
VB....................................................$17.50
(   ) Everything!!! The Search for Paradise, Club Celebrity X 
      and Virtual Girlfriend and Virtual
Boyfriend.......................$21.90

                                                              (ADD)
S&H.......$2.00

*money order or check*                        Amount enclosed?________


~Please indicate year of birth___________

Code:8053




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 11:53:26 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: time to export RSA and demand to be prosecuted? (Re:Cypherpunks Crypto_Legal Assistance Fund) (fwd)
Message-ID: <199803151953.UAA17769@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Jim Choate wrote:
> True, but since it is unethical and criminal in that it puts others in harms
> way without their prior permission it isn't reasonable. To do something like
> this really would put the part in the same boat as those they were
> attempting to defeat - a pot calling the kettle black.

Jim,
Decoded the message from your post and will tell our friends in 
Las Vegas to release the _real_ anthrax as soon as possible.
It looks like the feds are going to hang the Olympic Park bombing
on rudolph, so it seems you have nothing to worry about.

A. Nanny Mass
p.s. - I agree with the point of your post, although I didn't really
    understand it.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: info@209.116.211.250
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 04:44:31 -0800 (PST)
To: INVESTOR@209.116.211.250
Subject: 5 Times Book Value Investment NTXA
Message-ID: <199606141234.IAA02622@209.116.211.250>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


NTXA => National Tax and Acounting
See For your self
http://quote.yahoo.com/q?s=ntxa&d=v4

This stock holds an estimated book value of $1.24 Per share
If standards of investment apply this stock should easily hold at 5 times 
book to an expected  market valuation  of over $6 per share.
"THEN and NOW"
An investment of $100.00 in Mcdonalds in 1955 would NOW be worth over $1 million 
today.  No one knew THEN. 

See For your self
http://quote.yahoo.com/q?s=ntxa&d=v4

PRESS RELEASE INFO
============================================================
Monday January 19, 8:31 am Eastern Time
Company Press Release
http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/980119/national_t_1.html
National Tax Accounting Inc. to Merge with World Arts Centre Inc.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Monday October 27 8:28 AM EST 
Company Press Release
National Tax Accounting Inc. to Acquire National Tax Filing Service Inc. 
of Daytona Beach, Florida
http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/97/10/27/ntxa_y0004_1.html
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Monday August 11 2:42 PM EDT 
Company Press Release
National Tax Accounting Inc. to Acquire Two New Affiliates: 
Express Tax Inc. and Michael K. Zimmerman CPA, PA
http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/97/08/11/ntxa_1.html
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thursday May 29 8:10 AM EDT 
Company Press Release
National Tax Accounting begins trading publicly
http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/97/05/29/ntxa_y0004_1.html
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The contents of this message have been provided for the review of potential 
investors only and does not constitute an offering of securities.
Call Your Broker or if you need a broker go to the following address.
http://www.yahoo.com/Business_and_Economy/Companies/Financial_Services/Investment_Services/Brokerages/Full_Service/




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: jtsr-stock@jtsr-stock.com
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 06:55:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: JT's Restarants(JTSR) - Excellent Undervauled Investment Opportunity
Message-ID: <199803161455.GAA28370@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


You have been carefully selected to receive the following as a person 
obviously interested in this subject based upon your previous internet 
postings, or visits to one of our affiliate web sites.  If you have 
received this message in error, please accept our apology as a 
responsible e-mailer, and reply with the word REMOVE in the subject 
line.  You will be automatically excluded from future e-mailings.  Thank 
you for your consideration and help in making the Internet spam-free. 
*****

Visit http://www.jtsr-stock.com or call 888-295-6365 For Complete 
Information.

**** NEWS FLASH **** 2/20/98 Analysts correct - JT's Stock price up 40% 
from Feb. 17, 1998 to Feb. 20, 1998 - JT's is still the "Ground Floor 
Oppoprtunity" - The growth remains ahead.

Who said opportunity only knocks once.  JT's Restaurants is growing by 
leaps and bounds.  Under valued stock situation presently $3.00 per 
share.  Analysts predict stock will reach $5 to $6 this spring and could 
go up to $10.00 by end of 1998.  Stock symbol JTSR on OTC BB.  

"THEN and NOW"
An investment of $100.00 in Mcdonalds in 1955 would NOW be worth over $1 
million today.  No one knew THEN. 

Visit us at http://www.jtsr-stock.com or call 1-888-295-6365.

The contents of this message have been provided for the review of 
potential investors only and does not constitute an offering of 
securities.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 07:13:35 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: The Law Where There Is No Land
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980316151508.006865fc@pop.pipeline.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


NYT reports today on the battle to fit old law to cyberspace,
"The Law Where There Is No Land," featuring several 
eminent posters here, with a poster pix of Cindy Cohn 
attacking Bernstein's evil foes, laptop scythe slashing,
Xena backflipping effortlessly.

Flip to:

   http://jya.com/newlaw.htm





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "http://MusicBLVD.com" 
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 10:59:38 -0800 (PST)
To: musicblvd@sparklist.com
Subject: Music Boulevard Deals
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980316102741.00b8eb5c@207.67.22.140>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Music Boulevard celebrates March Madness with discounts throughout the
store!  Score huge savings on your favorite music and, now through March
31, take an additional $3 off your purchase when you follow the URL below:

http://www.musicblvd.com/3pointer

March Madness In-Store Specials:

* Essential CDs On Sale! Thousands of must-have discs are just $9.99 each.

* Buy three, we'll ship for free!  For a limited time, Music Boulevard will
pick up the shipping tab for any U.S. order of 3 items or more.

* Celebrate Women's History Month with our tribute to the first ladies of
song. Favorite female artist discographies are on sale now!

* Our Soundtracks Cineplex sale features this year's Oscar-nominated
soundtracks, past winners, and tons of music from the movies you love.

* Collect the best of the best!  Greatest hits collections from your
favorite artists are now on sale.

* The Allman Brothers Band's Live at the Fillmore February 1970 is on sale
now, but only on Music Boulevard!  You won't find this rare CD in stores.

* On Sale now - new albums from superstar artists like Madonna, Eric
Clapton, Loreena McKennitt and Pearl Jam plus recent favorites from Celine
Dion, Savage Garden, Will Smith, and the soundtracks to Titanic and The
Wedding Singer!

Hurry, your additional $3 discount will expire on March 31!
Visit http://www.musicblvd.com/3pointer/ today!

Thanks for shopping at Music Boulevard!

******************************************************************************
Now through April 10th, visitors to N2K's Classical Insites can enter to
win a luxurious Opera weekend in New York, including round-trip airfare,
hotel, and tickets to see Puccini's Madama Butterfly!  Enter today for your
chance to win: http://www.classicalinsites.com/opera101
******************************************************************************

TO UNSUBSCRIBE: To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send an email to:
remove-musicblvd@sparklist.com and you will be automatically removed from
this list.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Dr. Alan Sherman" 
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 08:21:44 -0800 (PST)
To: Crypto Announce 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


For those of you who missed the two-part forum on
encryption policy at UMBC, a videotape of each event
is available in the CSEE library in the ECS building at UMBC.
The first event featured John Gilmore (EFF) and Fritz Fielding 
(former NSA); the second featured Barry Smith (FBI).

  http://www.cs.umbc.edu/events

These tapes are for viewing at UMBC only and are not
available for general distribution nor copying.

Dr. Alan T. Sherman
Associate Professor, Computer Science
sherman@cs.umbc.edu





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "MSDNFlash Editor" 
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 14:13:15 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: Special MSDN Update - Visual J++ 6.0
Message-ID: <199803162213.OAA01009@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


A Twice-Monthly Newsletter for the Microsoft Developer Community

	Visit us today on the World Wide Web at:
http://www.microsoft.com/msdn/

Microsoft Announces Visual J++ 6.0 Technology Preview

We wanted you to be one of the first to know
about the launch of Visual J++ 6.0 Technology Preview.

Microsoft Visual J++ 6.0 is the fastest way to harness the productivity
of Java language and the power of Windows to build and deploy
high-performance, data-driven client and server solutions.  Two-way
visual design tools combined with the Windows Foundation Classes (WFC)
for Java, advanced cross-language and remote debugging capabilities,
scalable data access, and one-button application deployment simplify the
development of feature rich Windows and Web applications, components,
and middle-tier business objects.

For more product information and free download, visit
http://www.microsoft.com/visualj/


How to use this mailing list

You received this email newsletter as a result of your registration on
the Microsoft.com Personal Information Center. You may unsubscribe from
this newsletter, or subscribe to a variety of other informative
newsletters, by returning to the Personal Information Center, 
http://register.microsoft.com/regwiz/personalinfo.asp
and changing your subscription preferences.

Alternatively, please send a reply to this email with the word
"unsubscribe" as the first line in the body of the message




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: TruthMonger 
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 15:56:03 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Prologue 7/0 -- SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS
Message-ID: <350DD687.3A05@dev.null>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Prologue 7/0 -- SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS
------------------------------------------

Bureau42 wrote:
The unifying presence of CJ Parker seems to have disappeared, and the
Circle of Eunuchs is in chaos. This is what's left - the cryptic
saga, "Space Aliens Hide My Drugs!" I can only wonder what, if anything,
this malarchy means. But it's occasionally amusing if nothing else.

  the bureau42 staff

-----

Subject: A.Word.A.Day--chaos
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 00:07:19 -0500
From: Wordsmith 
To: linguaphile@wordsmith.org

chaos (KAY-os) noun
   1. A condition or place of great disorder or confusion.
   2. A disorderly mass; a jumble.
   3. Often Chaos. The disordered state of unformed matter and infinite
      space supposed in some cosmogonic views to have existed before the
      ordered universe.
   4. Obsolete. An abyss; a chasm.
[Middle English, formless primordial space, from Latin, from Greek
khaos.] 
 
   "But chaos is a condition of creativity, says Zarathustra - `one 
   must have chaos in one, to give birth to a dancing star.'"
   Nietzsche, Friedrich Wilhelm, Thus Spake Zarathustra: Part 1.

-----

[Note from the Editor: CJ Parker, having had previous experience in
 playing a woman's role during his stint on 'Baywatch', has gone to
 ground recently, as have many other members of the Circle of Eunuchs,
 by re-entering the World of Myth, replacing the Parker woman in the
 TV series, 'The Pretender' (who died in a plane crash while giving
 Ron Brown the details of BadBillyC's sexual assault on her).
 This rather bizarre chain of events was precipitated by a warning he
 received regarding the return of Adolf Hitler to power, using the
 same Dimlluminati (The lights are on, but nobody's home...) process
 which was used to sweep Ronnie RayGuns into power as the chief leader
 of the Freeh(ee-hee) World.
 Those who have noticed the stunning blitzkrieg assault of a small
 college basketball team, Valparaiso, on their opponents in the NCAA
 tournament currently taking place, may have noticed the striking
 resemblance of Bryce Drew, their star player, to the child actor
 who was the main protagonist in the TV series, 'The Wonder Years.'
 This is no coincidence--they are, in fact, one and the same person.
 The diabolical process used to implant a respectable, patriotic image
 of Ronnie RayGuns in the mind of the American people, through the
 then-developing psychedelic opiate of Cinema/Television, is, in the
 present case, being extended to reinforce the image of the 'Wonder
 Boy' in an increasingly global environment, by extending the actor/
 image persona into the sports arena--beginning at the college level.
 ("Win one for the Gipper...")
 The 'miracle shot' by Bryce Drew to lift the obscure college team to
 victory over Mississippi was a staged event which required several
 'takes' before being successfully captured on film. The scene was
 shot in the same TV studio in which the original 'moon landing' was
 filmed. The same choreographers were used who worked on The Oklahoma
 City Players last major production, the bombing of the Murrah Federal
 Building.
 When asked for comment, a former Detroit Piston player who is now
 the owner of an NBA franchise, but wishes to remain anonymous, said,
 "If Bryce Drew and Ronald Reagan were black, they would have been
 just another pair of average actors."
 Knowledgeable individuals following the Reptilian Nazi conspiracy
 to emerge from their secret bunkers underneath the AdamAntArctic
 and Mule Shoe, Texas, recognize this quote as proof that the next
 step in this diabolical plot is to put the third clone (TV child-
 actor, college basketball player...-->...) of Adolf Hitler into
 place as the new 'white hope', replacing Larry Byrd as a member of
 the Boston Celtics. This shrewd move will help draw together, into
 a common cause, Fundamentalist Christians, White Supremacists, and
 East-coast factions of the Irish Republican Army.
 Circle of Eunuchs members attempting to expose this grand scheme of
 the Evil One have come under heavy attack recently. Dr. Dimitri Vulis
 KOTM, who was thrown out of the only CoE meeting he attended, had
 his InterNet account pulled shortly after putting up web site images
 of Bryce Drew, of Drew's alleged 'coach/father' and of Adolf Hitler. 
 (Guess who Bryce *really* looks the most like...?)
 A forth clone of Hitler (rumored to be operating under the code name
 of 'Lucky Green' and involved in an incestuous relationship with his
 aunt, E. Christ--currently operating under the alias of Anne R. Christ)
 is being prepared, within the bowels of the crypto-community, to 
 emerge as the future leader of the New World Order--in the position of
 Information Monitor/Director of the United Statism of Mind.]
 
-----
Subject: Re: Freedom. (fwd)
From: Jim Choate 
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)

Forwarded message:
> From: Mark Rogaski 
> Subject: Re: Freedom.
> Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 23:39:56 -0500 (EST)

> : > It's typical of prisoners that they begin to associate with their captors at some     > point. Eventualy there is no difference. Congratulations, you've reached that point.
> 
> Equating adaptability for guilt is a shaky bridge and not handled well by
> blanket judgements.

Actualy it's neither. It's a facet of human nature involved in the
survival
mechanism. Further, there is no judgement involved, it's an easily
verifiable quality of human psychology that prisoners begin to associate
with their captors after a short period.

What it is in this context is the recognition that prisoners of a
political
system will after a fashion begin to accept that system. Just look at
the
cry by many to return to the socialist system after the fall of the CCCP
in 
1990.
    ____________________________________________________________________
           Those who suppress freedom always do so in the name of
           law and order.
                                            John. V. Lindsay

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------

-----

As a consequence the search for a quantitative theory of evolution 
based at the genetic level, which has been such an obsession for 
neo-Darwinism ever since the work of Fisher, Haldane and Wright, has 
been misdirected. As Depew and Weber has expressed it 'natural 
selection at the level of individuals and the notion of fitness used 
to measure it, is itself poised on the edge of chaos' 
(Depew and Weber, 1995): 
'The fitness of various sorts of organisms is not necessarily, or even
probably, enhanced by superiority in a single trait... In fact, the 
emergence of the ability to take advantage in resource competitions of 
an indefinitely number of often infinitesimally small differences 
creates degrees of freedom, in both the technical and the ordinary 
senses, well beyond what can be achieved by merely chemical and 
physical systems. It also creates more variables and interactions 
among them than can be tracked. It is impossible, then, to reduce 
the components of fitness to any single language or system of 
variables' (ibid, 471).

The number of possible solutions for selection to scrutinise, and the 
subtlety of the communicational interactions, will tend to produce a 
no-win situation. As a result selection cannot really 'measure' the 
stakes of single players (individuals, demes, or species) in the game,
but it could still influence the choice of the game itself. 
Plays, not players, are selected for.

~Jesper Hoffmeyer
 Biosemiotics: Towards a New Synthesis in Biology
 European Journal for Semiotic Studies, Vol. 9 No. 2, 1997, pp 355-376.

-----
  It was the work of Jesper Hoffmeyer, in the field of Biosemiotics,
which led to the development of an artificial life/intelligence form
capable of self-development/evolution, at Sandia Laboratories--by
Reptilian Nazis.
  Their Cyborg technology had reached the point where it could finally
be mass-produced when Bill Payne, a Sandia-NISTA employee, downloaded
all the relevant technological files to a fellow Circle of Eunuchs
member operating clandestinely within the bowels of a secret government
laboratory (code-named 'Lost Alamo' by CoE psychophants).
  Although the Reptilian Nazis sent the Shadow back in time to 
eliminate the threat of the Circle of Eunuchs, by eliminating the
Author in a sleazy motel room in southern Saskatchewan, the Circle of
Eunuchs, taking advantage of the Trei Transponder technology developed
by the CypherPunks, made contact with the resident of a Home For The
Criminally Insane, in the same era, and used Biosemiotic theory to
transfer biological communication-information to a digital implant
he had received as part of a government experiment designed to control
the minds of the members of the CypherPunks Distributed Remailer lists.
  The resulting events have long been the basis for certain mythologies
concerning the Mythical Circle of Eunuchs, with the basic theme of
the CoE reality being mirrored from time to time in the mythology-
substitute of the era--Literature/Cinema/Television. (e.g. - Animal
Farm, 1984, War of the Worlds, Terminator (I & II), X-Files, Pretender,
Millennium, Journey to the East, The Magus, etc.)

----

The Bureau42 statement, "The unifying presence of CJ Parker seems to 
have disappeared,  and the Circle of Eunuchs is in chaos." was an
alert to CoE members to pay special attention to a commincation
which ultimately came from a CoE collective known as 'WordSmith':
    "But chaos is a condition of creativity, says Zarathustra - `one 
   must have chaos in one, to give birth to a dancing star.'"
   Nietzsche, Friedrich Wilhelm, Thus Spake Zarathustra: Part 1.

  The issue of chaos/creativity versus order/statism has pitted the
Circle of Eunuchs against the New World Order on a battleground that
encompasses NWO Anti-Christ/Artificial-Intelligence against CoE
Anarchist/Biosemiotic-CodeWriting.
  It is a battle in which the meatspace Army of God forces must be
countered by cyberspace Army of Dog troops.

"DogMongers write biosemiotic code." 
~ Bubba Hughes

-----

  The InterNet is fast becoming the global battleground for control
of the future biosemiotic evolution, not only of humankind, but of
universal intelligence, itself.

-----

Darwin was right in seeing selection as the central process in animate 
nature, but for more than hundred years Darwinists have resisted 
taking the full consequence of this insight. It is now necessary to 
take this consequence and admit the obvious: That selective processes 
presupposes interpretations (with the implied possibility of 
misinterpretation). Thus, to the extent selection is a natural process,
semiosis is a natural process - semiosis goes on all the time and at 
all levels of the biosphere. It may be feared that such a position 
will put biology outside the safe range of natural science, since 
interpretation seems to presuppose the existence of some kind of 
subject-ness. This risk, however, must be confronted through a 
thorough analysis of the implications, rather than evaded by 
repression.

~Jesper Hoffmeyer
 Biosemiotics: Towards a New Synthesis in Biology
 European Journal for Semiotic Studies, Vol. 9 No. 2, 1997, pp 355-376.

-----

  The war between the forces of freedom and the forces of repression
takes place in many arenas.
  In the arena of expression of the life force, it is manifest in
the battle between the forces of free speech and the forces of
censorship.

  The evolution of the InterNet is the evolution of Biosemiotic
Information-Communication.

The term umwelt refers to the phenomenal worlds of organisms, the 
worlds around animals as they themselves perceive them. 
"Every action" wrote Uexküll "that consists of perception and operation
imprints its meaning on the meaningless object and thereby makes it 
into a subject-related meaning-carrier in the respective umwelt" 
(Uexküll, 1982 [1940])

  The Medium Is The Message
  Information Exchange Is The CornerStone Of Evolution
  Evolution Is The Creativity of Chaos Becoming Manifest

-----

The number of possible solutions for selection to scrutinise, and the 
subtlety of the communicational interactions, will tend to produce a 
no-win situation. As a result selection cannot really 'measure' the 
stakes of single players (individuals, demes, or species) in the game, 
but it could still influence the choice of the game itself. Plays, not
players, are selected for.

In the last decade the trend towards semiotisation of nature discussed 
here has manifested itself at still new levels. Thus, in evolutionary 
biology, neo-Darwinism has been seriously challenged by a set of ideas 
referred to as infodynamics (Brooks and Wiley, 1986; Weber, et al., 
1989; Weber and Depew, 1995; Goodwin, 1989; Salthe, 1993). 
Infodynamics in the words of Stanley Salthe 'subsumes thermodynamics 
and information theory, essentially animating the latter by means of 
the former' (Salthe, 1993, 6). The general idea as originally suggested
by Dan Brooks and Ed Wiley is that information capacity (disorder)
increases spontaneously in developing systems, being produced along 
with physical entropy as the system grows and differentiates. 
Since such self-organisation is a prevalent property of our universe, 
natural selection should not be seen as the dominating force of 
evolution, but rather as playing the more modest role of pruning down 
the novelty that is constantly and autonomously being generated by the
requirements of the second law of thermodynamics.

Prigogine got the Nobel-price for his work on the thermodynamics of 
irreversible systems and most importantly in this context he showed 
that in so-called dissipative structures, i.e. systems far from 
thermodynamic equilibrium, ordered states may sometimes arise
spontaneously out of disordered states. Our universe according to 
Prigogine is inherently creative. Due in large part to this
revolution in our understanding of thermodynamics modern cosmology 
now sees our world as a self-organising place, a view which has perhaps
most forcefully been unfolded in the recent work of Stuart Kauffman 
(Kauffman 1991, 1993).

~ Jesper Hoffmeyer

-----

  As CP-CoE neobyte Jim Choat points out, we become Sheeple who
blindly follow our captors through the operation of our inborn
survival mechanism.
"It's a facet of human nature involved in the survival
mechanism. Further, there is no judgement involved, it's an easily
verifiable quality of human psychology that prisoners begin to 
associate with their captors after a short period."

  The only hope for Netizens to resist becoming Digital Sheeple behind 
the ElectroMagnetic Curtain which the forces of censorship/repression
are striving to put in place is for each member of the coming Army
of Dog to mark their meatspace and cyberspace territory and refuse
to go gently into the night when the Oppressor attempts to scare
them into submission with a mountain of laws and regulations which
promise unjust persecution for imaginary offenses.
  A Global InterNet Army of individuals committed to freedom must
strive to create a maximum entropy within which the chaos of semiotic
evolution can break the digital chains which the Statist Oppressors
are seeking to use to bind and repress access to information, global
communication, free speech/expression, and the evolution of the
Universal Life Energy, itself.

-----

  Current CoE mythology indicates that CJ Parker, fleeing his safehouse
in Bienfait, Saskatchewan, after his dog Baby was shot by an FBI sniper
as the Canadian Mounties closed in on him to enforce a "Dog at large."
charge which was trumped up in an attempt to get him to inform on
other CoE and CypherPunks members, left behind a note to his wannabe
persecutors which indicated that he was willing to fight to the death,
in both meatspace and cyberspace, if his only alternative was to live
in a world where CypherBroads were required, by law, to wear panties.
(This bit of information originated with his nephew, Human Gus-Peter,
 and is thus viewed with skepticism by some of the more mature/aged/
 rotting members of the Circle of Eunuchs.)

----
Lock & Loll
Rock & Road 
Chop & Chop

ZenRacistMonger





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Gilmore 
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 20:20:47 -0800 (PST)
To: bernstein-announce
Subject: Bernstein's top lawyer, Cindy Cohn, testifies to Congress Tuesday
Message-ID: <199803170400.UAA02843@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


The lead attorney in Dan Bernstein's challenge to the US export
controls on cryptography is Cindy Cohn, a partner at McGlashan &
Sarrail of San Mateo, CA.  She will testify on the constitutionality
of export controls (and proposed domestic controls) on cryptography,
before the Senate Judiciary Committee's subcommittee on the
Constitution, Federalism, and Property Rights.  The hearing will begin
at 10AM (Washington, DC time) on Tuesday, March 17.

The hearing will be cybercast in real-time, and will also be archived, at:

	http://www.computerprivacy.org

(Scroll down to the "Encryption hearing to be cybercast" link.)

Copies of Cindy's written testimony will be available on Tuesday from
the EFF Web site; see

	http://www.eff.org/pub/Privacy/ITAR_export/Bernstein_case/

I hope you can attend.

The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals has not yet ruled on the
government's appeal in our case.  They hope to overturn our Federal
District Court case, in which all current export controls on
cryptographic source code were declared unconstitutional.  We expect a
ruling within the next several months.

	John Gilmore
	Electronic Frontier Foundation

Here are further details, courtesy of Alan Davidson of CDT, :

(1) Senate Committee To Hold Encryption Hearing March 17

Constitutional law experts, industry representatives, and the attorney in a
case challenging U.S. encryption regulations will testify on encryption
policy before the Senate Judiciary Committee's Constitution, Federalism,
and Property Rights Subcommittee on Tuesday, March 17. The hearing, "to
examine privacy in the digital age, focusing on encryption and mandatory
access issues", is scheduled for 10:00 am in the Senate's Dirksen Office
Bldg., Rm. 226.

Among the hearing highlights: Two well-respected legal scholars, Professor
Kathleen Sullivan of Stanford Law School and Professor Richard Epstein of
the University of Chicago, will outline the major constitutional concerns
raised by domestic encryption controls and other policies to regulate
encryption.

Expected witnesses include:

Panel 1: Rep. Robert Goodlatte (R-VA)
Panel 2: Robert Litt, Department of Justice

Panel 3: Tom Parenty, Sybase
	Bill Wiedemann, RedCreek Communications
	Representative of Law Enforcement Association of America

Panel 4: Kathleen Sullivan, Stanford Law School
	Richard Epstein, U. of Chicago Law School
	Cindy Cohn, McGlashan & Sarrail
	Tim Casey, MCI





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 19:17:57 -0800 (PST)
To: wpi@wpiran.org
Subject: alluhu alkbar, sadness, and friendliness
Message-ID: <350DEAFC.4727@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Monday 3/16/98 8:03 PM

Merat

A second postcard went to you Saturday 2/14.

Curiosity prompts me to ask if it or the previous
made it to shiraz.

best
bill


Thursday 3/12/98 7:34 AM

Certified - Return Receipt Requested

Cynthia McKinney

124 Cannon Building
Washington, DC 20515
Office: (202)225-1605
Fax: (202)226-0691
http://www.house.gov/mckinney/

Dear Representative McKinney:



PURPOSE of this letter is to ask your help for us to obtain copes of 
docket sheets from the Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals for cases 
No. 94-2205, Payne v Sandia and 95-2204, Morales v Sandia.

All of our legal efforts to obtain these documents, which any citizen
has a right to, have failed.

REASON you are selected to help is that you appear to be knowledgeable
about operation of the current US federal government and willing to speak 
out in an attempt to solve problems.

You appeared Friday February 27, 1998 on  PBS, The NewsHour with Jim 
Lehrer, along with senators Campbell, Hollings, Lott, Shelby Robb and 
representatives Dana Rohrabacher and Harold Rogers.

These senators and congressmen appeared not to support your views because
they are either mis- or not well-informed about US involvement in support 
of Saddam Hussein.

Stories supporting your view appear on Internet at

  NSA, Crypto AG, and the Iraq-Iran Conflict by J. Orlin Grabbe
  http://www.aci.net/kalliste/speccoll.htm

and

 Crypto AG: The NSA's Trojan Whore? by Wayne Madsen
 http://caq.com/CAQ/caq63/caq63madsen.html

Madsen begins

   It may be the greatest intelligence scam of the century:
   For decades, the US has routinely intercepted and
   deciphered top secret encrypted messages of 120
   countries

But NSA , and as a result the US federal government, apparnetly 
got caught involved in complicity of deaths of about 500,000 Iranians.

This is the subject of a Federal lawsuit seen on Internet at

   http://jya.com/whpfiles.htm
  
US federal government help of Iraq during the Iraq-Iran war may 
possibly backfire on innocent US citizens.

The Wall Street Journal, March 10, 1998, pp. B1, B9. reports

   A Peek Inside a Giant Germ Warehouse 

   By Rochelle Sharpe

   Rockville, Md. -- They keep anthrax bacteria in the
   basement of a faded red-brick building here.

   It isn't far from the yellow-fever virus, the botulism
   bacteria and some of the hundreds of organisms that cause
   the common cold. In fact, there are samples of 85,000
   different fungi, viruses, cells, genes and bacteria here at
   the American Type Culture Collection, by far the largest of
   the 450 repositories of biological materials scattered
   around the globe. ...

   The ATCC legally shipped 10 vials of anthrax, botulism and
   other deadly substances to Iraqi scientists in the 1980s --
   when the U.S. and Iraq were on much friendlier terms -- all
   with the Commerce Department's approval. ...

   http://www.jya.com/btn031198.txt

The US federal government apparently intended these bioweapons to 
be used against the people of Iran.

You demonstrated on PBS TV a quality identified by Francis Bacon

         The contemplation of things as they are,
                without error or confusion,
            without substitution or imposture,
   is in itself a nobler thing than a whole harvest of invention.

by your statement about Saddam Hussein on PBS

                ...our man and our creation...

Perhaps after reading the above materials and

   The Problem of Paradigm Shifts - Terrorism and the 
   Threat From Weapons of Mass Destruction in the Middle East
   Working Draft Anthony H. Cordesman, Senior Fellow and 
   Co-Director Middle East Studies Program October 22, 1996

  http://www.csis.org/mideast/terror.html

senators Campbell, Hollings, Lott, Shelby, Robb and representatives 
Dana Rohrabacher and Harold Rogers MAY NOW understand why you are 
correct and they are mis- or not well-informed about US involvement 
with Saddam Hussein.

PROBLEM we face with the US court system is that court clerks and judges
have committed Title 18 felony violation of law IN WRITING in an attempt
to deny us monetary compensation due us for the cases WE WON at the 
Tenth Circuit on Appeal.  

But judges awarded victories to the US federal government in violation 
of Federal Rules of Appellate Procedure.

Cases  No. 94-2205, Payne v Sandia and 95-2204, Morales v Sandia 
were both won pro se on appeal.

We have filed a writ of mandamus with supreme court judge 
Scalia in an  attempt to get the docket sheets for the two above 
cases.

But Scalia will not answer our certified letters.

Senator McCain wrote Payne on December 23, 1997

  I wanted to take this opportunity of than you for you letter of 
  December 3, 1997. 

  Your situation is in the jurisdiction of Senator Pete Dominici.  
  Therefore, I have  forwarded you letter to his attention.

  William, I hope you situation can be resolved favorably.

Lawyers and politicians Dominici and Bingaman are part of a 
problem not a solution.

Dominici and Bingaman have the following agenda

  University of New Mexico Bureau for Business and Economic
  Research reported on October 14, 1997: 

  A  The Gross State Product of New Mexico is $37.8 billion.

  B  The US Federal government sends $11.3 billion to New Mexico
      each year.

  C  For each $1 New Mexico sends to Washington, New Mexico gets 
      $2 back.

THEREFORE, Representative McKinney, we ask your help to get copies
of the docket sheets.

Citizens of the US are becoming more upset with the behavior of 
bureaucrats, the courts [lawyers], and the US federal government. 

Some Americans have no other way to express their dissatisfaction
with US federal government mismanagement of our country except
by violence.

Frederick Douglass either wrote or said on  August 4, 1847

          Those who profess to favor freedom,
            and yet depreciate agitation
   are men who want crops without plowing up the ground.
      They want rain without thunder and lightening.
         Power concedes nothing without a demand.
            It never did, and it never will.
       Find out just what people will submit to
        and you have found out the exact amount
  of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them.
      These will continue until they are resisted
        with either words or blows, or with both.
          The limits of tyrants are prescribed
       by the endurance of those whom they oppress.

We chose to use the words and law to hold government 
employees accountable.

Please encourage Scalia to do his job. 

Help get us copies of the docket sheets.  

And even perhaps help investigate further and settle this 
American tragedy.


Sincerely,



Arthur R. Morales                William H. Payne
1023 Los  Arboles NW             13015 Calle de Sandias NE
Albuquerque, NM 87107            Albuquerque, NM 87111

Enclosures
1  NSA, Crypto AG, and the Iraq-Iran Conflict by J. Orlin Grabbe
2  Crypto AG: The NSA's Trojan Whore? by Wayne Madsen
3  Swiss Radio International Audio tape, 15 May, 18 July 1994

Distribution
Ben Nighthorse Campbell
  administrator@campbell.senate.gov 
Ernest Hollings
  senator@hollings.senate.gov
Trent Lott
  senatorlott@lott.senate.gov
Richard Shelby
  senator@shelby.senate.gov 
Charles Robb
  Senator_Robb@robb.senate.gov
Jim Lehrer
  newshour@pbs.org




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Cindy Cohn 
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 20:45:30 -0800 (PST)
To: bernstein-announce@toad.com
Subject: Cohn Testimony
Message-ID: <199803170425.UAA28521@gw.quake.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Here is the text of my testimony before the Senate Judiciary Committee's
Subcommittee on Constitution, Federalism and Property Rights on Tuesday
March 17.

TESTIMONY OF CINDY A. COHN; 
	LEAD COUNSEL, BERNSTEIN v. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE, ET AL.

	I want to thank the Sub-Committee for inviting me here today.  Although
there have been very many hearings and much discussion about cryptography
here in Washington, this is the first, I believe, to seek testimony from one
of the attorneys directly involved in the legal challenges to the
cryptography regulations.

	I've been asked here because I am lead counsel in the case of Bernstein v.
Department of Justice, et al.  With the help of the Electronic Frontier
Foundation, Professor Daniel J. Bernstein has been trying for over six years
to publish on the Internet a simple cryptographic computer program which he
wrote.  He has been told that if he does, he will be prosecuted.  

	We argued that American scientists, be they academics, in industry or
hobbyists, should not have to submit their own work prior to publication to
faceless government bureaucrats.  This is especially so when those same
bureaucrats have unchecked discretion to bar them from publishing his work.
That is what the current scheme allows.  In fact, before we brought suit
those same agency bureaucrats told Professor Bernstein that publishing an
academic paper about his software would be illegal and that putting his
software into a public library would be illegal.  The Federal District Court
for the Northern District of California has agreed with us that the
regulations are in violation of the First Amendment on their face, meaning
that they violate the First Amendment rights of all Americans, not just
Professor Bernstein.  

	KARN AND JUNGER: TWO OTHER LEGAL CHALLENGES

	Two other similar cases are also pending.  The first, Karn v. U.S.
Department of State, is here in D.C. District Court.  The Karn case is the
clearest example of the quip often made about the Administration's
cryptography policy--that it is based upon the belief that terrorists can't
type.  Mr. Karn was told that, although a book containing computer source
code could be freely sent abroad, a floppy disk containing the exact same
information could not.  The second case, Junger v. Christopher, is in
Cleveland, Ohio, and is based upon the government's position that Professor
Junger, a law professor at Case Western University could be prosecuted for
teaching a Computers and the Law course in his usual way.

	RULINGS OF THE BERNSTEIN CASE

	In the Bernstein case we have received three rulings from the District
Court so far, all in our favor:
		1)	April 1996:  Computer program source code is speech;
		2)	December 1996: ITAR was unconstitutional;
		3)	August 1997: New Commerce Department cryptography regulations 			issued
in December, 1996 are unconstitutional.

	In short, the Federal District Court has declared that every single one of
the current (and previous)  regulations of encryption software are
unconstitutional.  

	The final ruling in our favor was appealed by the Administration, argued in
December, 1997 before the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, and is now
awaiting decision.  I have attached a copy of the third District Court
opinion to my written statement for your review.  I hope you have your staff
take the time to review it--it gives a clear and concise statement of some
of the key constitutional requirements that any legislation on cryptographic
software must meet and a better explanation than I could ever give you about
why the current regulations are unconstitutional.

	As I mentioned before, the Bernstein case challenges the current government
restrictions on cryptographic software on the grounds that they are in
violation of the First Amendment.  Although our case focuses, as it must, on
the current regulations, the analysis would apply as well to proposed
domestic restrictions which would restrict or license the creation,
distribution or receipt of cryptographic software.  Indeed, the
constitutional problems which would arise if domestic controls were imposed
are even more severe than those of the current scheme.   

	The first doctrine of First Amendment law which the cryptography
regulations violate is prior restraint of speech.  The Bernstein case
focuses on the  easiest flaws to see in the current scheme--the lack of
procedural protections.  The Supreme Court has long held that if the
government wants to institute a prepublication licensing scheme, it must
contain:
		1)	Prompt decision - no more than 2 weeks;
		2)	Only a court can stop publication; the government must bring a court
case rather than act administratively; 
		3)	Government bears burden of proof in Court.
This comes from a seminal Supreme Court case called Freedman v. Maryland. 

	I should point out that as much as I would like to take credit for our
legal analysis, we were not the first to see this problem.  In fact, the
first people to point out this problem in the regulations were in the
Justice Department's Office of Legal Counsel in 1978.  You see, the agencies
have known for 20 years that this scheme is unconstitutional.  Their own
lawyers told them so.  That is why you never hear them mention the First
Amendment in their presentations to you.

	COMPUTER SOFTWARE IS PROTECTED EXPRESSION

	The key point in our case, and in your consideration of any proposed
legislation, is that source code is protected expression for purposes of the
First Amendment.  On this point, the administration largely agrees.  Let me
repeat that--the Administration has not denied that in regulating computer
software it is also regulating the "expressive activities" of Americans.
This conclusion, which is obvious to anyone who has ever written or read a
computer program, is also consistent with what Congress has repeatedly
acknowledged.  Software is treated as identical to other forms of protected
expression in both the Copyright Act and the Freedom of Information Act.  

	From a legal standpoint, the Bernstein case is not complex, nor does it
break any dramatic new ground.  It simply asks the courts to recognize that
the First Amendment extends to science on the Internet, just as it does to
science on paper and in the classroom.  For it is this scientific freedom
which has allowed us to even have an Internet, as well as the many other
technologies which we enjoy today.	   

	OTHER FIRST AMENDMENT TESTS WHICH 	
	CRYPTOGRAPHY REGULATION MUST MEET

	Up to this point everything I've said isn't just my opinion.  It's been
decided by the Federal District Court.  My legal team and I believe that
there are other strong Constitutional reasons which prevent the regulation
of cryptographic software. The District Court did not need to address these
additional reasons, since it agreed with us that the first alone was
sufficient to invalidate the regulations. 

	In addition to procedural protections, the Constitution requires that any
regulation which institutes a licensing scheme, or any other form of prior
restraint, pass the strictest of tests.  Even a claim of national security
or public safety must be carefully weighed against our fundamental rights,
and must be supported with hard evidence of direct, immediate and
irreparable harm, not just conjecture and a few frightening scenarios.  

	Further, aside from prior restraint, a scheme which targets speech on the
subject of cryptography and treats that speech differently from speech on
other topics must pass the tests of strict scrutiny--that the regulation
address a compelling government interest and be narrowly tailored to reach
only that interest and no further.  That is, the government's concern about
national security cannot reach so broadly as to prevent law-abiding citizens
from having access to software which they can use for completely lawful
purposes.  Put into another context, it means that the government cannot
require all of us to deposit our house keys with them on the off chance that
one of us is a criminal.

	Further, the government must prove that their restrictions on speech
actually meet their goals.  Here, such proof would be difficult since
terrorists, pedophiles and drug dealers can simply purchase or download
strong German, Swiss or Japanese encryption software that is freely
available all over the U.S. and the world--over 500 at last count.  If
necessary, criminals could even type in or scan one of the computer programs
printed in the many books published on the subject.  

	THE ADMINISTRATION'S LEGISLATIVE PROPOSALS 
	FAIL THESE FIRST AMENDMENT TESTS

	Neither the current scheme nor any administration-supported, so-called
"compromise" schemes proposed so far addresses these First Amendment
problems.  And even the SAFE bill, which is well-intentioned, fails to
contain an assurance of judicial review of any agency decision to prevent
publication due to alleged national security concerns, a key element
required by the Constitution.  SAFE also does not clearly protect scientists
such as Professor Bernstein, but only protects those who seek to distribute
mass market software already available abroad.  This means that American
scientists can no longer participate in the ongoing international
development of this vital and important area of science.  


	ENCRYPTED SPEECH IS STILL SPEECH

	In addition, we believe that regulation of encryption software and
technology violates the First Amendment because of what encryption does.
Encryption allows people to use electronic envelopes to protect their
speech.  The Supreme Court has noted that a state could not regulate ink or
paper without raising constitutional concerns.  We believe that similarly
the government cannot prevent Americans from using electronic envelopes or
require them to use key-escrowed envelopes without violating their First
Amendment rights.  This is because such rules compel them to speak to the
Government anytime they wish to speak to anyone else.  Encrypted speech is
still speech.  The elimination of privacy creates a chilling effect on that
speech which implicates the First Amendment.  

	ENCRYPTION WAS USED BY THE FOUNDING FATHERS

	In fact, in our research for this case we have discovered that the Founding
Fathers used cryptography on a regular basis.  Even the Constitution and the
Bill of Rights themselves were often encoded, as Thomas Jefferson and James
Madison exchanged drafts of those seminal documents.   Cryptography was used
by a virtual Who's Who of the American Founding Fathers--not only Jefferson
and Madison but Benjamin Franklin, Alexander Hamilton, John and Abigail
Adams, Aaron Burr, and many others.  In sharp contrast to the
Administration's arguments today, they viewed cryptography as an  essential
instrument for protecting information, both political and personal.  Our
research indicates that when the First and  Fourth Amendments were enacted
in the late 1700s, any suggestion that the Government should have the
ability to prevent individuals from encrypting their messages, or that the
Government should have a back-door key to all encrypted messages, would have
struck the Constitution's framers as ridiculous.  

	CONCLUSION

	In sum, our legal challenge to the current restrictions on encryption
software is succeeding.  It is succeeding because the First Amendment is
clearly violated when the government institutes a prepublication licensing
scheme which allows agency bureaucrats unfettered discretion to prevent
American scientists from publishing their own ideas.  It is succeeding
because the Courts have recognized the importance of keeping the First
Amendment intact as we move into the information age.  As you consider the
many legislative proposals about cryptography, we hope you will do the same.  

	
	



******************************
Cindy A. Cohn, Cindy@McGlashan.com
McGlashan & Sarrail, P.C.
177 Bovet Road, 6th Floor
San Mateo, CA 94402
(650) 341-2585 (tel)
(650) 341-1395 (fax)





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: etmp@etmp.com
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 21:14:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Eventemp (ETMP) - Stock Ready To Take Off!!!
Message-ID: <199803170513.VAA03325@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: moneytape3@usa.net
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 20:34:23 -0800 (PST)
To: moneytape3@usa.net
Subject: Can something FREE really change your life?
Message-ID: <199801045326.GAB02457@usa.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 19:41:39 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: The Cypherpunks Meeting, OpenPGP, and the TIS Merger
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980317034316.010c3f84@pop.pipeline.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Thanks to Jim Gillogy we've put a copy of the IETF draft 
OpenPGP Message Format at:

   http://jya.com/openpgp-01.htm  (99K)

And thanks to all who've primed the OpenPGP pump
to boost it worldwide we've opened an archive of 
selected parts (SSM) of the discussion here:

   http://jya.com/openpgp-msg.htm






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: etmp@etmp.com
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 23:36:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Eventemp (ETMP) - Stock Ready To Take Off!!!
Message-ID: <199803170735.XAA11611@cygint.cygnus.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSquncr 
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 21:43:56 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: On Cypherpunks
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I just want to say, with all the "nobody's" and "anon's" running around
attacking folk in private, I feel right at home (just like any other list on
the net, the "Know-nothings" are all over the  net).

And I'd like to apologize for my comments directed towards the list when I
first came, I was rather prejudice (against EVERY list) at the time, and my
compliments to the cypher's for your apparent open-mindedness.

It's cool to be here,

Stan,
Stan and the Sequencers




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: dean@intergal.com
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 02:00:14 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Add 90 minute streaming movies for FREE - just link !
Message-ID: <199803170947.BAA01890@amateurextreme.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 20:47:29 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Prologue 8/0
Message-ID: <199803170447.FAA15608@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



SAHMD -- Prologue 8/0 
---------------------

Note from a disinterested party:
  A quick perusal of the various chapters of "Space Aliens Hide My
Drugs" indicates to me that Timothy C. May will be unable to understand
the chaotic YoungEsque structure of this release of the manuscripts,
whereas John F. Young will be unable to understand the serious, grounded
basis of rationale behind the often confusing, shot-gun blatherings
being perpetrated upon the reader (unless, of course, JFA reads it
during one of  his drug-free periods during which he maintains one of
the most detailed and pertinent databases ever assembled, concerning
the privacy, security, and freedom issues of the day).
  Thus I will take it upon myself to interpret the current Circle of
Eunuchs manuscript which is being spammed upon the Cypherpunks mailing
lists in the interests of ensuring that sanity and decorum do not
gain the upper hand among the spooks, psychotics, sociopaths and
nuclear physicists who use the list to vent male hormones which exceed
the level which normal society finds acceptable.

*****

For starters, "Space Aliens Hide My Drugs," although often spoke of by
the Author as the title of h/is/er evenutal autobiography, was begun
by an entity who was either attempting to provide cover-fire for the
son of gomez during his TruthMonger Soft-Target Tour, or by an agent
of a government agency which was monitoring that tour.

Analysis of the opening chapters show conclusively that they were 
written on an early version of a Sperry computer, using WordPerfect 4.2.
The computer in question had =~= 256K of RAM, situated on an add-in
board.

Prologue 1/0
------------
Written by someone with a comprehensive knowledge of the Author's 
background, but with subtle self-denigrating slams against his
character and history which suggest it was written by someone whose
goal was to cast the Author in a negative light which goes far beyond
that which the Author h/im/erself reveals in the process of viewing
h/is/er life with basic objectivity.
The increasingly violent rhetoric, combined with a challenge to a
female member of the Cypherpunks whom the Author holds in the utmost
respect, tends to confirm that this chapter was initiated, not by
a fellow initiate into the Circle of Eunuchs, but by a member of
one of the agencies monitoring h/im/er, in the hope that s/he would
eventually 'take the bait' and continue h/is/er autobiography in
an open and forthright manner which would lead to an increasing
quantity of evidence concerning h/is/er state of mind which could
be legally used during the course of government prosecution.

Prologue 2/0
------------
This was introduced by a post, allegedly from L. Reed, which seemed
to have a purpose only of implicating  Ms. Reed and J. Tolkoff in
the writing and desemination of the SAHMD manuscript.
Prologue 2/0, proper, is written from the point of view of someone
who was surrupticiously monitoring CJ Parker's attendance at a
Bay-Area Cypherpunks physical meeting.
Its goal seems to be to legitimatize the character and activities
of C2Net and its raghead leader, Sameer, in a way that goes totally
contrary to the Author's view of them as shadowy entities in league
with the Evil One.

Prologue 3/0 & 3a/0
-------------------
All indications are that this chapter was written by, or under the
direction of, Larry Joe Dowling, the Austin attorney who flew to
Las Vegas to warn old Doc Parker that his autobiography had been
set in motion by government entities which were working against
his self-interests.
Only Dowling would have likely been familiar with the persona known
as Justin Case, a musician that Parker met only one time, at a late-
night picking/drinking session at Dowling's residence outside of Austin.
Only Dowling would have been likely to recognize the close affinity
between "The Electronic Privacy Papers" and "Paper Prison."

Prologue 4/0
------------
Analysis of past communications between toto@sk.sympatico.ca and
camcc@abraxis.com indicate that this chapter was written by Alec
McCrackin, a Circle of Eunuchs member purportedly working as a
CoE double agent, deep within the bowels (this week's 'catch phrase')
of the BXA in Georgia, but actually a triple-agent working to expose
the source and goals of the 'True Story of the InterNet' manuscripts,
as well as a quadruple-agent working for MI9 and pulling down some
serious money collecting all of those paychecks...

Prologue 5/0
------------
Written by Bianca, a CoE member renowned far and wide for a pair of
stand-up titties that men would abandon thrones and fortunes for.
"The Story Thus Far:
  (Or so we would have you believe...)" is a classical trademark of
the woman who has 'monitored the monitors' since her initiation into
the Circle of Eunuchs, and who has provided much of the insider
information that is openly disseminated in 'The True Story of the
InterNet" manuscripts, surrounded by details which seem outlandish
and overblown to those who have never experienced the true depth of
the mystery and intrigue taking place behind the scenes of what the
average person views as reality.

Prologue 6/0
------------
This chapter was ghost-written by a resident of the Home For The 
Criminally Insane, who transcribed the barkings of the Author's
dog, Baby (aka - MongrelMonger), who claims to be a Fox Terrorist.
Baby is purported to be the inspiration behind the soon-to-be
worldwide phenomena known as the Army of Dog.

Prologue 7/0
------------
Written by Kent Crispin, a CypherPunk who was torn between his work
as a Government Schill (TM) and his obligations as a full initiate of
the Circle of Eunuchs, until he received a private email from the 
Author, stating that Kent was welcome to 'rat me out' at any given
point in time in order to protect his family, with the explaination
from the Author that, 'I am expendable--that's my role in the CoE.'

Prologue 8/0
------------
This chapter was not written by me...it is an obvious forgery...





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 21:08:32 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: If Tim May fucked John Young, the progeny would write...
Message-ID: <199803170507.GAA18728@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Excretion from Prologue 7/0 of Space Aliens Hide My Drugs:
  The only hope for Netizens to resist becoming Digital Sheeple behind 
the ElectroMagnetic Curtain which the forces of censorship/repression
are striving to put in place is for each member of the coming Army
of Dog to mark their meatspace and cyberspace territory and refuse
to go gently into the night when the Oppressor attempts to scare
them into submission with a mountain of laws and regulations which
promise unjust persecution for imaginary offenses.
  A Global InterNet Army of individuals committed to freedom must
strive to create a maximum entropy within which the chaos of semiotic
evolution can break the digital chains which the Statist Oppressors
are seeking to use to bind and repress access to information, global
communication, free speech/expression, and the evolution of the
Universal Life Energy, itself.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 06:31:12 -0800 (PST)
To: john gilmore 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Tuesday 3/17/98 6:29 AM

Charles Christopher, FBI/NY http://www.fbi.gov/fo/nyfo/nytwa.htm
John Gilmore

Christopher, I received a phone call Monday morning.

The caller asked me to modify my resume to reflect my experience with 
PC BIOS.

I added the following lines.

  Attended Annabooks University week-long course on ROMing
  BIOS in 1992.

  Sixteen years experience interfacing high-level languages to BIOS.

  Reverse engineering BIOS and DOS for Sandia Labs weapons controller.

  Custom BIOS modifications experience for electronic locks for the
  FBI/Engineering Research Facility using Pentium processors.

The FBI paid my course tuition for the Annabooks course.

  http://www.annabooks.com/

I learned several months after Sandia manager Tommy Sellers, who was
entering the crypto business, and ombudsman Harvey Brewster gave me a 
directed transfer to break electronic locks for the FBI that the FBI 
DOES NOT GET COURT ORDERS to do normally illegal work.

The FBI my FBI/ERF supervisors, Mike Uttaro, and his boss Mike McDevitt 
told me that they believe that the above work is CLASSIFIED SECRET. 
http://www.fbi.gov/

I think that we should get this matter settled before it GETS WORSE.

Gilmore, I saw at http://www.jya.com/acp-pols.htm

BOXER CONTINUES EFFORTS TO OPPOSE U.S. EXPORT LIMITS ON COMPUTER
ENCRYPTION 


  March 4, 1998 

  WASHINGTON, D.C. -- U.S. Senator Barbara Boxer (D-CA) joined Americans
for 
  Computer Privacy and a delegation of bipartisan lawmakers at a news 
  conference today to oppose U.S. export limits on encryption
technology. 

  The following is Senator Boxer's statement. 

  "Since the high-tech revolution, Americans have learned that privacy 
  protection is of the utmost importance. Encryption technology is a key 
  component in protecting our privacy - it is the lock on the door that 
  guarantees not only our privacy, but often our safety as well.

Boxer also is known for the following quote

	"Those who survived the San Francisco earthquake said,
	'Thank God, I'm still alive.'  But, of course, those who died,
	their lives will never be the same again."
	- Representative Barbara Boxer, after the 1994 [sic] earthquake

            Weird History 101 John Richard Stephens
http://www/adamsmedia.com

Sandian Ron Pate and I were seated in a SF airport satellite area during 
that earthquake.

Pate and I worked on electronic tagging for the CTBT.  This used public
key 
crypto.  I used the Cylink CY1024 for that project.

Electronic locks are mostly connected to Pcs.

The PC keeps both a printed record and disk log entrys.

Electronic lock programmers do not and cannot rewrite an operating
system.

Therefore, the simplest way to defeat an electronic lock is to modify
BIOS.  

Intercept the electronic lock programmer call to BIOS, look for a known
credential,
open the door, and suppress the writes to printer and disk.

Not too tough to do.  

But I was told to modify MANY SYSTEMS which I could NOT DO.  

Hirsch, CardKey, Sensor engineering, ....  I was being set up to fail.

Looks like your legal stuff is paying off in political support.

Let's hope we get this crypto mess settled so that we can all move on 
to more constructive projects.

Later
bill






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Robert A. Hayden" 
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 06:57:14 -0800 (PST)
To: John Young 
Subject: Re: Will New Sendmail Block Remailers?
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19980317141322.006c25cc@pop.pipeline.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Tue, 17 Mar 1998, John Young wrote:

> Markoff in the NYT reports today on the release of a new 
> Sendmail upgrade by author Eric Allman that will block 
> spam by checking the legitimacy of the originating address 
> before delivery.
> 
> The report claims that spam is up to 10% of e-mail worldwide,
> And that Sendmail is used on 75% of the computers that route 
> e-mail, all of which are being fitted with the new program.
> 
> What are the chances that this will affect remailers or other 
> means of eternal anonymity?

Depends on how the remailer is set up.

For example, I own the domain "geek.net".  If I set up a remailer and
messages resolve to "anonymous@geek.net", I suspect it will get through. 
I may need to also have an alias that /dev/nulls messages to
anonymous@geek.net, but that is still a legitimate mailing address. 

I think what they are trying to stop are spammers that have a return
address like "fakename@fakedomain.com" or "your@best.friend".  Those
wouldn't resolve and would just get shitcanned.

IMHO, there's nothing _toooo_ sinister here, yet.  But vigilance is
suggested.
 
=-=-=-=-=-=
Robert Hayden			rhayden@means.net	       UIN: 3937211
IP Network Administrator	http://rhayden.means.net
MEANS Telcom			(612) 230-4416 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 06:11:43 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Will New Sendmail Block Remailers?
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980317141322.006c25cc@pop.pipeline.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Markoff in the NYT reports today on the release of a new 
Sendmail upgrade by author Eric Allman that will block 
spam by checking the legitimacy of the originating address 
before delivery.

The report claims that spam is up to 10% of e-mail worldwide,
And that Sendmail is used on 75% of the computers that route 
e-mail, all of which are being fitted with the new program.

What are the chances that this will affect remailers or other 
means of eternal anonymity?

Except Sualk, GL, UB and Nuh, all of whom we now know 
are Otot GinPu Tca as those crazy Syug Irtmid Irun.








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 07:41:04 -0800 (PST)
To: "Robert A. Hayden" 
Subject: Re: Will New Sendmail Block Remailers?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199803171540.KAA00760@users.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Boundary..3990.1071713782.multipart/signed"

--Boundary..3990.1071713782.multipart/signed
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In , on 03/17/98 
   at 08:58 AM, "Robert A. Hayden"  said:

>On Tue, 17 Mar 1998, John Young wrote:

>> Markoff in the NYT reports today on the release of a new 
>> Sendmail upgrade by author Eric Allman that will block 
>> spam by checking the legitimacy of the originating address 
>> before delivery.
>> 
>> The report claims that spam is up to 10% of e-mail worldwide,
>> And that Sendmail is used on 75% of the computers that route 
>> e-mail, all of which are being fitted with the new program.
>> 
>> What are the chances that this will affect remailers or other 
>> means of eternal anonymity?

>Depends on how the remailer is set up.

>For example, I own the domain "geek.net".  If I set up a remailer and
>messages resolve to "anonymous@geek.net", I suspect it will get through. 
>I may need to also have an alias that /dev/nulls messages to
>anonymous@geek.net, but that is still a legitimate mailing address. 

>I think what they are trying to stop are spammers that have a return
>address like "fakename@fakedomain.com" or "your@best.friend".  Those
>wouldn't resolve and would just get shitcanned.

>IMHO, there's nothing _toooo_ sinister here, yet.  But vigilance is
>suggested.

Well I think this may add to the problem. All the spamers need to do is
start faking real e-mail addresses in the headers. So now you will have
alot of users bearing the brunt of anti-spam attacks and complaints who
had nothing to do with it.

-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/esecure.html                        
---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: PATH=C:\DOS;C:\DOS\RUN;C:\WIN\CRASH\DOS;C:\ME\DEL\WIN


--Boundary..3990.1071713782.multipart/signed
Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="pgp00003.pgp"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="pgp00003.pgp"
Content-Description: "PGP signature"

LS0tLS1CRUdJTiBQR1AgTUVTU0FHRS0tLS0tClZlcnNpb246IDIuNi4zYS1z
aGExCkNvbW1lbnQ6IFJlZ2lzdGVyZWRfVXNlcl9FLVNlY3VyZV92MS4xYjFf
RVMwMDAwMDAKCmlRQ1ZBd1VBTlE2TDdZOUNvMW4rYUxoaEFRSDE3d1FBczJ5
VEZZdWE5NlZ5VHM3WVk0NlE1ZXJwdysrOGprb2sKODZzeENUdTRySUtJN2xV
NndjVGZ1dVcxcURLQTlOL0F0SkVNek91STNOM0JyMW9xOUpaT2d3TFo0K1FC
TFZSSAp3Ry9aNFA1SHI1bzFndTZGSjhUbXJPOGtzVllnM2N2Uks4S1BldXIr
ODFkZHJyNnNucDNkVXhnMlQ3REVFNWczCnpKWmhQbkVzTkRnPQo9VHh0SQot
LS0tLUVORCBQR1AgTUVTU0FHRS0tLS0t
--Boundary..3990.1071713782.multipart/signed--



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 06:45:44 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: GSM Interception
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980317144733.01052c04@pop.pipeline.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Below is one of the most comprehensive and informative
sites we've seen on telephonic snooping, with nation by
nation accounting of technologies, laws, disinformation,
deception, complicity, commerce and teletone opps for
MH-moola ka-chinka chinka:

From: "UT11" 
To: 
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 15:07:50 +0100

Actually 100 Millions of GSM Are Geographically &
Automatically Tapped and Stored 4 Months

   http://www.ii-mel.com/interception

   http://www.dejanews.com  (keyword: location GSM, title: interception)






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 09:23:14 -0800 (PST)
To: Ryan Anderson 
Subject: Re: Will New Sendmail Block Remailers?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199803171722.MAA01561@users.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Boundary..3990.1071713782.multipart/signed"

--Boundary..3990.1071713782.multipart/signed
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In , on
03/17/98 
   at 11:58 AM, Ryan Anderson  said:

>All it really does is force spammers to search for someone's real address
>to spoof and harass.  (They can just scan usenet, and pick on random
>people if they want..)

Yep, it's not like they are short on valid e-mail addresses.

-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/esecure.html                        
---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: Program call to load Windows- "Here_piggy_piggy_piggy"


--Boundary..3990.1071713782.multipart/signed
Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="pgp00004.pgp"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="pgp00004.pgp"
Content-Description: "PGP signature"

LS0tLS1CRUdJTiBQR1AgTUVTU0FHRS0tLS0tClZlcnNpb246IDIuNi4zYS1z
aGExCkNvbW1lbnQ6IFJlZ2lzdGVyZWRfVXNlcl9FLVNlY3VyZV92MS4xYjFf
RVMwMDAwMDAKCmlRQ1ZBd1VBTlE2anU0OUNvMW4rYUxoaEFRRTRZZ1AvZkdU
M1RMa1dLS2pNSlUyMDd6MHUzZHQrODdBRCtSSkwKWThpSGRjNEhQQlRzZWVS
dVZJZTVpcU5UbUVSWXZOS2tpOWtMMGwwTGZjam1QV1ZTdGFNMDYya29HRVht
Z0xYMQp3RVhNeG9NYnJvL3VxTU9zQkNJS2xFdEtBWWl5bDdMa3NqS1pMVXFS
a3BUMXQveTB6NVBsWElyV0NIZWpYclg1ClJmbTRNY3dCUTFJPQo9azEvVAot
LS0tLUVORCBQR1AgTUVTU0FHRS0tLS0t
--Boundary..3990.1071713782.multipart/signed--



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 08:36:13 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Local Law Oppose FBI on Crypto
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980317163801.0071eac8@pop.pipeline.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


A point made at Senator Ashcroft's crypto hearing going 
on now, made by James J. Fotis, of the Law Enforcement 
Alliance of America, is that many local police departments 
do not want the FBI and federal agencies snooping on them, 
thus, they oppose the FBI's stance on crippled crypto.

To be sure, they may fear the feds because of local
corruption, but it's a crack in the blue wall solidarity
that the FBI has heretofore vaunted.

Listen in by RealAudio:

   http://www.computerprivacy.org/archive/03171998-1/






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: RDonnovan@hotmail.com
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 11:47:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: VIABLE PRODUCT, VIABLE OPPORTUNITY
Message-ID: <199803171947.LAA14002@cygint.cygnus.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Every Day Cash Plan

ŚYou OWN the copyrights to the program!

•You sell the program for any amount you wish

•You are not part of any company, downline or MLM

•One time fee- $20

•Once you buy, I don't forget you- the program includes
 my support BBS. Any questions or difficulties you encounter,
 you contact me personally.

First question you are likely to ask- is this "junk mail?"
Read on to see why it is not another "$3000 in 5 minutes" scam.

----FREE----FREE----FREE----FREE----
REGISTERED version of NetContact
     Retails for $300 and up
This bulk E-mail software will EXPLODE your business
----FREE----FREE----FREE----FREE----


That is all I do! I earn $140,  $200, even $250 a day mailing out
the exact same sales letter! There is absolutely no catch or crazy
gimmick involved here, I promise you. This has nothing to do with
any order-based envelope stuffing program, illegal chain-letter scam
or worthless multi-level scheme!

Why does it work? You OWN the rights, and are free to do with the
program as you please. You keep EVERYTHING you make. No boss, no
downline. Owning copyrights to any information is a valuable
commodity- this is why you will receive around a 50% response rate
on your ads.

There is not an easier way to make $140 a day than this- if you
would like to gain financial independence and success, listen up...

I tried every moneymaking plan under the sun. After a couple years
of constant attempts at striking it rich, I had done nothing but
strike out.

I tried multi-level marketing... I failed!
I tried chain letters... They failed me!
I tried envelope stuffing... Ridiculous!

I figured I could afford the $30 or $40 for each of the programs I
tried; until I realized not only does that build up, but I was making
no money in the mean time. Needless to say, living with no positive
income quickly equals debt.

Luckily a friend informed me of this program, which turned my
finances around. It has come to replace the career I was working
towards, simply because I make better money in very little time-
leaving me time for more important things, like my family.

Here is what my 3 diskette program includes:

1) NetContact bulk mail software- REGISTERED
2) Master copies of my Special Sales Letters that
     make $140 per day
3) Complete business startup guides
4) Complete instructions and internet access to our secret website

As you can see, for only $20, you are getting a complete business
system with all the support you need! In the past I have licensed
this system for $49.95. Available only for Windows95 and NT.

cut here____________________________________________

Please rush me your Every-Day Cash Plan!!
Enclosed is the $20 dollar cost.

Send $20 cash or check to: 	HyperReal
				Box 136
				2051 Richmond Road Suite 125
				Lexington, KY 40502

Make checks or money orders payable to HyperReal
				
				
Name_________________________________________________

Address_______________________________________________

City__________________________________________________

State/Province______________ Zip/Postal code_______________

Country if other than U.S._________________________________




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ryan Anderson 
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 08:59:13 -0800 (PST)
To: John Young 
Subject: Re: Will New Sendmail Block Remailers?
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19980317141322.006c25cc@pop.pipeline.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


> Markoff in the NYT reports today on the release of a new 
> Sendmail upgrade by author Eric Allman that will block 
> spam by checking the legitimacy of the originating address 
> before delivery.
> 
> The report claims that spam is up to 10% of e-mail worldwide,
> And that Sendmail is used on 75% of the computers that route 
> e-mail, all of which are being fitted with the new program.
> 
> What are the chances that this will affect remailers or other 
> means of eternal anonymity?

As long as this feature isn't turned on, on the remailers, not at all.
All the remailers use a replyable e-mail as the from field, they ust dumpe
anything e-mail to that, so if Sendmail goes out and does a VRFY on an
e-mail, it'll work, but not mean a heck of a lot..

All it really does is force spammers to search for someone's real address
to spoof and harass.  (They can just scan usenet, and pick on random
people if they want..)

Ryan Anderson - Alpha Geek
PGP fp: 7E 8E C6 54 96 AC D9 57  E4 F8 AE 9C 10 7E 78 C9

"With this word of power, I cast thy soul into the void: (void)soul"

print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<>
)]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 12:09:16 -0800 (PST)
To: bill payne 
Subject: Re: BIOS, FBI/ERF, Barbara Boxer,
In-Reply-To: <350E871B.2E74@nmol.com>
Message-ID: <350EF165.3762@dev.null>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Subject: Prologue 7/0 -- SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS
From: TruthMonger 
Organization: "It's not FUD until *I* say it's FUD!"
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
CC: hoffmeyer@mermaid.molbio.ku.dk

Prologue 7/0 -- SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS
------------------------------------------

Bureau42 wrote:
The unifying presence of CJ Parker seems to have disappeared, and the
Circle of Eunuchs is in chaos. This is what's left - the cryptic
saga, "Space Aliens Hide My Drugs!" I can only wonder what, if anything,
this malarchy means. But it's occasionally amusing if nothing else.

  the bureau42 staff

-----

Subject: A.Word.A.Day--chaos
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 00:07:19 -0500
From: Wordsmith 
To: linguaphile@wordsmith.org

chaos (KAY-os) noun
   1. A condition or place of great disorder or confusion.
   2. A disorderly mass; a jumble.
   3. Often Chaos. The disordered state of unformed matter and infinite
      space supposed in some cosmogonic views to have existed before the
      ordered universe.
   4. Obsolete. An abyss; a chasm.
[Middle English, formless primordial space, from Latin, from Greek
khaos.] 
 
   "But chaos is a condition of creativity, says Zarathustra - `one 
   must have chaos in one, to give birth to a dancing star.'"
   Nietzsche, Friedrich Wilhelm, Thus Spake Zarathustra: Part 1.

-----

[Note from the Editor: CJ Parker, having had previous experience in
 playing a woman's role during his stint on 'Baywatch', has gone to
 ground recently, as have many other members of the Circle of Eunuchs,
 by re-entering the World of Myth, replacing the Parker woman in the
 TV series, 'The Pretender' (who died in a plane crash while giving
 Ron Brown the details of BadBillyC's sexual assault on her).
 This rather bizarre chain of events was precipitated by a warning he
 received regarding the return of Adolf Hitler to power, using the
 same Dimlluminati (The lights are on, but nobody's home...) process
 which was used to sweep Ronnie RayGuns into power as the chief leader
 of the Freeh(ee-hee) World.
 Those who have noticed the stunning blitzkrieg assault of a small
 college basketball team, Valparaiso, on their opponents in the NCAA
 tournament currently taking place, may have noticed the striking
 resemblance of Bryce Drew, their star player, to the child actor
 who was the main protagonist in the TV series, 'The Wonder Years.'
 This is no coincidence--they are, in fact, one and the same person.
 The diabolical process used to implant a respectable, patriotic image
 of Ronnie RayGuns in the mind of the American people, through the
 then-developing psychedelic opiate of Cinema/Television, is, in the
 present case, being extended to reinforce the image of the 'Wonder
 Boy' in an increasingly global environment, by extending the actor/
 image persona into the sports arena--beginning at the college level.
 ("Win one for the Gipper...")
 The 'miracle shot' by Bryce Drew to lift the obscure college team to
 victory over Mississippi was a staged event which required several
 'takes' before being successfully captured on film. The scene was
 shot in the same TV studio in which the original 'moon landing' was
 filmed. The same choreographers were used who worked on The Oklahoma
 City Players last major production, the bombing of the Murrah Federal
 Building.
 When asked for comment, a former Detroit Piston player who is now
 the owner of an NBA franchise, but wishes to remain anonymous, said,
 "If Bryce Drew and Ronald Reagan were black, they would have been
 just another pair of average actors."
 Knowledgeable individuals following the Reptilian Nazi conspiracy
 to emerge from their secret bunkers underneath the AdamAntArctic
 and Mule Shoe, Texas, recognize this quote as proof that the next
 step in this diabolical plot is to put the third clone (TV child-
 actor, college basketball player...-->...) of Adolf Hitler into
 place as the new 'white hope', replacing Larry Byrd as a member of
 the Boston Celtics. This shrewd move will help draw together, into
 a common cause, Fundamentalist Christians, White Supremacists, and
 East-coast factions of the Irish Republican Army.
 Circle of Eunuchs members attempting to expose this grand scheme of
 the Evil One have come under heavy attack recently. Dr. Dimitri Vulis
 KOTM, who was thrown out of the only CoE meeting he attended, had
 his InterNet account pulled shortly after putting up web site images
 of Bryce Drew, of Drew's alleged 'coach/father' and of Adolf Hitler. 
 (Guess who Bryce *really* looks the most like...?)
 A forth clone of Hitler (rumored to be operating under the code name
 of 'Lucky Green' and involved in an incestuous relationship with his
 aunt, E. Christ--currently operating under the alias of Anne R. Christ)
 is being prepared, within the bowels of the crypto-community, to 
 emerge as the future leader of the New World Order--in the position of
 Information Monitor/Director of the United Statism of Mind.]
 
-----
Subject: Re: Freedom. (fwd)
From: Jim Choate 
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)

Forwarded message:
> From: Mark Rogaski 
> Subject: Re: Freedom.
> Date: Sun, 15 Mar 1998 23:39:56 -0500 (EST)

> : > It's typical of prisoners that they begin to associate with their captors at some     > point. Eventualy there is no difference. Congratulations, you've reached that point.
> 
> Equating adaptability for guilt is a shaky bridge and not handled well by
> blanket judgements.

Actualy it's neither. It's a facet of human nature involved in the
survival
mechanism. Further, there is no judgement involved, it's an easily
verifiable quality of human psychology that prisoners begin to associate
with their captors after a short period.

What it is in this context is the recognition that prisoners of a
political
system will after a fashion begin to accept that system. Just look at
the
cry by many to return to the socialist system after the fall of the CCCP
in 
1990.
    ____________________________________________________________________
           Those who suppress freedom always do so in the name of
           law and order.
                                            John. V. Lindsay

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------

-----

As a consequence the search for a quantitative theory of evolution 
based at the genetic level, which has been such an obsession for 
neo-Darwinism ever since the work of Fisher, Haldane and Wright, has 
been misdirected. As Depew and Weber has expressed it 'natural 
selection at the level of individuals and the notion of fitness used 
to measure it, is itself poised on the edge of chaos' 
(Depew and Weber, 1995): 
'The fitness of various sorts of organisms is not necessarily, or even
probably, enhanced by superiority in a single trait... In fact, the 
emergence of the ability to take advantage in resource competitions of 
an indefinitely number of often infinitesimally small differences 
creates degrees of freedom, in both the technical and the ordinary 
senses, well beyond what can be achieved by merely chemical and 
physical systems. It also creates more variables and interactions 
among them than can be tracked. It is impossible, then, to reduce 
the components of fitness to any single language or system of 
variables' (ibid, 471).

The number of possible solutions for selection to scrutinise, and the 
subtlety of the communicational interactions, will tend to produce a 
no-win situation. As a result selection cannot really 'measure' the 
stakes of single players (individuals, demes, or species) in the game,
but it could still influence the choice of the game itself. 
Plays, not players, are selected for.

~Jesper Hoffmeyer
 Biosemiotics: Towards a New Synthesis in Biology
 European Journal for Semiotic Studies, Vol. 9 No. 2, 1997, pp 355-376.

-----
  It was the work of Jesper Hoffmeyer, in the field of Biosemiotics,
which led to the development of an artificial life/intelligence form
capable of self-development/evolution, at Sandia Laboratories--by
Reptilian Nazis.
  Their Cyborg technology had reached the point where it could finally
be mass-produced when Bill Payne, a Sandia-NISTA employee, downloaded
all the relevant technological files to a fellow Circle of Eunuchs
member operating clandestinely within the bowels of a secret government
laboratory (code-named 'Lost Alamo' by CoE psychophants).
  Although the Reptilian Nazis sent the Shadow back in time to 
eliminate the threat of the Circle of Eunuchs, by eliminating the
Author in a sleazy motel room in southern Saskatchewan, the Circle of
Eunuchs, taking advantage of the Trei Transponder technology developed
by the CypherPunks, made contact with the resident of a Home For The
Criminally Insane, in the same era, and used Biosemiotic theory to
transfer biological communication-information to a digital implant
he had received as part of a government experiment designed to control
the minds of the members of the CypherPunks Distributed Remailer lists.
  The resulting events have long been the basis for certain mythologies
concerning the Mythical Circle of Eunuchs, with the basic theme of
the CoE reality being mirrored from time to time in the mythology-
substitute of the era--Literature/Cinema/Television. (e.g. - Animal
Farm, 1984, War of the Worlds, Terminator (I & II), X-Files, Pretender,
Millennium, Journey to the East, The Magus, etc.)

----

The Bureau42 statement, "The unifying presence of CJ Parker seems to 
have disappeared,  and the Circle of Eunuchs is in chaos." was an
alert to CoE members to pay special attention to a commincation
which ultimately came from a CoE collective known as 'WordSmith':
    "But chaos is a condition of creativity, says Zarathustra - `one 
   must have chaos in one, to give birth to a dancing star.'"
   Nietzsche, Friedrich Wilhelm, Thus Spake Zarathustra: Part 1.

  The issue of chaos/creativity versus order/statism has pitted the
Circle of Eunuchs against the New World Order on a battleground that
encompasses NWO Anti-Christ/Artificial-Intelligence against CoE
Anarchist/Biosemiotic-CodeWriting.
  It is a battle in which the meatspace Army of God forces must be
countered by cyberspace Army of Dog troops.

"DogMongers write biosemiotic code." 
~ Bubba Hughes

-----

  The InterNet is fast becoming the global battleground for control
of the future biosemiotic evolution, not only of humankind, but of
universal intelligence, itself.

-----

Darwin was right in seeing selection as the central process in animate 
nature, but for more than hundred years Darwinists have resisted 
taking the full consequence of this insight. It is now necessary to 
take this consequence and admit the obvious: That selective processes 
presupposes interpretations (with the implied possibility of 
misinterpretation). Thus, to the extent selection is a natural process,
semiosis is a natural process - semiosis goes on all the time and at 
all levels of the biosphere. It may be feared that such a position 
will put biology outside the safe range of natural science, since 
interpretation seems to presuppose the existence of some kind of 
subject-ness. This risk, however, must be confronted through a 
thorough analysis of the implications, rather than evaded by 
repression.

~Jesper Hoffmeyer
 Biosemiotics: Towards a New Synthesis in Biology
 European Journal for Semiotic Studies, Vol. 9 No. 2, 1997, pp 355-376.

-----

  The war between the forces of freedom and the forces of repression
takes place in many arenas.
  In the arena of expression of the life force, it is manifest in
the battle between the forces of free speech and the forces of
censorship.

  The evolution of the InterNet is the evolution of Biosemiotic
Information-Communication.

The term umwelt refers to the phenomenal worlds of organisms, the 
worlds around animals as they themselves perceive them. 
"Every action" wrote Uexküll "that consists of perception and operation
imprints its meaning on the meaningless object and thereby makes it 
into a subject-related meaning-carrier in the respective umwelt" 
(Uexküll, 1982 [1940])

  The Medium Is The Message
  Information Exchange Is The CornerStone Of Evolution
  Evolution Is The Creativity of Chaos Becoming Manifest

-----

The number of possible solutions for selection to scrutinise, and the 
subtlety of the communicational interactions, will tend to produce a 
no-win situation. As a result selection cannot really 'measure' the 
stakes of single players (individuals, demes, or species) in the game, 
but it could still influence the choice of the game itself. Plays, not
players, are selected for.

In the last decade the trend towards semiotisation of nature discussed 
here has manifested itself at still new levels. Thus, in evolutionary 
biology, neo-Darwinism has been seriously challenged by a set of ideas 
referred to as infodynamics (Brooks and Wiley, 1986; Weber, et al., 
1989; Weber and Depew, 1995; Goodwin, 1989; Salthe, 1993). 
Infodynamics in the words of Stanley Salthe 'subsumes thermodynamics 
and information theory, essentially animating the latter by means of 
the former' (Salthe, 1993, 6). The general idea as originally suggested
by Dan Brooks and Ed Wiley is that information capacity (disorder)
increases spontaneously in developing systems, being produced along 
with physical entropy as the system grows and differentiates. 
Since such self-organisation is a prevalent property of our universe, 
natural selection should not be seen as the dominating force of 
evolution, but rather as playing the more modest role of pruning down 
the novelty that is constantly and autonomously being generated by the
requirements of the second law of thermodynamics.

Prigogine got the Nobel-price for his work on the thermodynamics of 
irreversible systems and most importantly in this context he showed 
that in so-called dissipative structures, i.e. systems far from 
thermodynamic equilibrium, ordered states may sometimes arise
spontaneously out of disordered states. Our universe according to 
Prigogine is inherently creative. Due in large part to this
revolution in our understanding of thermodynamics modern cosmology 
now sees our world as a self-organising place, a view which has perhaps
most forcefully been unfolded in the recent work of Stuart Kauffman 
(Kauffman 1991, 1993).

~ Jesper Hoffmeyer

-----

  As CP-CoE neobyte Jim Choat points out, we become Sheeple who
blindly follow our captors through the operation of our inborn
survival mechanism.
"It's a facet of human nature involved in the survival
mechanism. Further, there is no judgement involved, it's an easily
verifiable quality of human psychology that prisoners begin to 
associate with their captors after a short period."

  The only hope for Netizens to resist becoming Digital Sheeple behind 
the ElectroMagnetic Curtain which the forces of censorship/repression
are striving to put in place is for each member of the coming Army
of Dog to mark their meatspace and cyberspace territory and refuse
to go gently into the night when the Oppressor attempts to scare
them into submission with a mountain of laws and regulations which
promise unjust persecution for imaginary offenses.
  A Global InterNet Army of individuals committed to freedom must
strive to create a maximum entropy within which the chaos of semiotic
evolution can break the digital chains which the Statist Oppressors
are seeking to use to bind and repress access to information, global
communication, free speech/expression, and the evolution of the
Universal Life Energy, itself.

-----

  Current CoE mythology indicates that CJ Parker, fleeing his safehouse
in Bienfait, Saskatchewan, after his dog Baby was shot by an FBI sniper
as the Canadian Mounties closed in on him to enforce a "Dog at large."
charge which was trumped up in an attempt to get him to inform on
other CoE and CypherPunks members, left behind a note to his wannabe
persecutors which indicated that he was willing to fight to the death,
in both meatspace and cyberspace, if his only alternative was to live
in a world where CypherBroads were required, by law, to wear panties.
(This bit of information originated with his nephew, Human Gus-Peter,
 and is thus viewed with skepticism by some of the more mature/aged/
 rotting members of the Circle of Eunuchs.)

----
Lock & Loll
Rock & Road 
Chop & Chop

ZenRacistMonger






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 12:05:29 -0800 (PST)
To: John Young 
Subject: Re: Local Law Oppose FBI on Crypto
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19980317163801.0071eac8@pop.pipeline.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 11:38 -0500 3/17/98, John Young wrote:
>A point made at Senator Ashcroft's crypto hearing going
>on now, made by James J. Fotis, of the Law Enforcement
>Alliance of America, is that many local police departments
>do not want the FBI and federal agencies snooping on them,
>thus, they oppose the FBI's stance on crippled crypto.

The LEAA is part of the Americans for Computer Privacy effort and was
listed as one of their member groups at the announcement earlier this
month...

-Declan






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 06:12:12 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199803171412.PAA17815@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


3/17/98

A note to Cypherpunks:

Today I was sent a missive ostensibly from Mr. Toto.

Following are the particulars:

[begin quote]

Return-Path: 
Received: from harrier.sasknet.sk.ca (harrier.sasknet.sk.ca 
[142.165.5.2]) by camel10.abraxis.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id 
XAA02654 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 23:42:42 -0500 
(EST)
Received: from uymfdlvk (regnsk01d05020132.sk.sympatico.ca 
[142.165.24.84]) by harrier.sasknet.sk.ca (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP 
id WAA21157;
Mon, 16 Mar 1998 22:40:54 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <350E1A48.6C00@sk.sympatico.ca>
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 22:38:01 -0800
From: Toto 
Reply-To: toto@sk.sympatico.ca
To: Replay Anonymous remailer 

[end quote]

For health reasons I removed myself from the list several months 
ago; now it appears the errors of my youth have returned to haunt 
me.

I had assumed either the RCMP, CIA, FBI, KGB, ASPCA, or some 
other local authority had plucked Toto from the Web.

Alas, this latest message, SAHMD -- Prologue 8/0, indicates the 
torment continues unless, of course, it is a forgery. But then, 
Mr. T. has been known to forge messages he has signed and send 
them direct with screwed up Anon: headers.

This must stop. Whom should I contact to complain about such 
harrassment?

My head is hurting again for the first time in months.

Alec






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 06:37:31 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: "Must refrain from using a mind": A(h)OL's son
Message-ID: <199803171437.PAA21913@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Information Violation wrote:
> 
> from the Bienfait Rectal Examiner:
>    _________________________________________________________________
> 
> A(h)OL, a long, chubby dick with a thick mustache, has pleaded not
> present to two felony counts alleging possession of cryptographic material
> with the intention of ciphering or deciphering.
> 
> If convicted, he faces up to six lifetimess in prison.
> 
> He pleaded not present Wednesday and is free on his own recognizance,
> subject to some unusual conditions: that he obey authority, stay away
> from words, refrain from possessing or using a mind and get
> psychopathological torture.
> 
> Opening the back door of Jim Morrison's former home on a trimmed
> cul-de-sac, A(h)OL, his face reflecting anarchy for a few seconds,
> declined a donut and shut the door.
> 
> A(h)OL's attorney, Adrian Messenger, said the persecution's theory of
> reality was probably the result of 'bad acid.' His client, a
> childless bachelor, with two sons, "is a 47-year-old turd," he said. 
> "He's not a cryptographer. He stays stoned a lot, and he's a pretty 
> recessive pervert."
> 
> Adrian said A(h)OL "strikes me as an acutely illiterate guy who
> wouldn't hurt a word.  He hasn't got the social grace or skills of
> one who would try subtly to peek up a female cryptographer's skirt
> to see if she was wearing panties."





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mia Westerholm 
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 07:12:30 -0800 (PST)
To: Crypto-Press-Global@DataFellows.com
Subject: Data Fellows Lauches New Version of the Famous F-Secure SSH Products
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980317160523.00c5fa18@smtp.DataFellows.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Data Fellows Ltd.  Media Release

For immediate release
17 March 1998

DATA FELLOWS LAUNCHES NEW VERSIONS OF THE FAMOUS 
F-SECURE SSH PRODUCTS

The improved F-Secure SSH product family is a unique tool for secure remote
systems administration

ESPOO, FINLAND --- Data Fellows, a leading provider of Internet security
solutions, has launched new versions of its famous F-Secure SSH products.

F-Secure SSH Tunnel&Terminal and F-Secure SSH Server protect TCP/IP-based
terminal connections in UNIX, Windows and Macintosh environments. They
enable remote systems administrators and telecommuters to access corporate
networks via any Internet Service Provider without revealing system
passwords and other secrets to possible eavesdroppers.

"In addition to providing secure login connections, F-Secure SSH Server
secures all remote systems administration tasks by providing secure tools
to replace the existing rsh, rlogin, rcp, rdist and telnet protocols," says
Mr. Olli Voima, Product Development Manager of F-Secure SSH.  "As a new
feature, the secure file transfer application offers an easy-to-use
graphical interface for the safe transfer of files."

F-Secure SSH Tunnel&Terminal and F-Secure SSH Server support the forwarding
of TCP/IP services like pop, smtp (used by e-mail software), http (used by
Web browsers), etc., or almost any other TCP/IP-based service.  The local
proxy server in F-Secure SSH Tunnel&Terminal listens for a socket on the
desired port and forwards the request and data over the secure channel.  It
then instructs the F-Secure SSH Server to make the connection to the
specified service on the remote machine. Automatic forwarding of the X11
Windowing System secures graphical applications.

F-Secure SSH products are based on the SSH protocol, an application level
security mechanism used in conjunction with Internet protocols.

"The SSH protocol is the most widely audited and standardized security
protocol in the world," says Mr. Voima. "Its strong end-user authentication
and encryption leave no room for security compromises. As a European
company, Data Fellows is not restricted by the US export regulations, and
has thus been able to make strong encryption available worldwide. F-Secure
SSH host authentication is based on 1024-bit RSA keys, and the secure
connections use 128-bit session keys."

In addition to being strongly secured, the F-Secure SSH products are easy
to use.  The single sign-on technology makes the handling of multiple
terminal sessions simple. 

Says Mr. Voima:  "Easy-to-use and strongly secured, F-Secure SSH is a truly
unique security solution for remote systems administration."

About Data Fellows:

Data Fellows is one of the world's leading developers of data security
products with offices in San Jose, California and Espoo, Finland. Its
groundbreaking 
F-Secure product family is a unique combination of globally available,
strong encryption and revolutionary anti-virus software.  The integrated
F-Secure product range provides a complete security solution for
enterprises, and includes file encryption and IPSec communication
encryption products, VPN gateways, SSH based secure remote management
software, and a full range of anti-virus products to workstations, servers
and gateways.  Data Fellows is also the developer of the award winning
F-PROT Professional anti-virus, now part of the dual scanning engine
concept of F-Secure Anti-Virus.   

Data Fellows is privately owned.  Since it was founded in 1988, its annual
net growth of net sales has been over 80%.  Data Fellows offers a worldwide
network of technical support, training and distribution in over 70 countries. 
Data Fellows belongs to an elite group of companies that have a triple-A
rating from Dun&Bradstreet.

For further information, please contact:

Mr. Olli Voima, Product Development Manager
Tel. +358 9 859 900, Fax. +358 9 8599 0599
E-Mail:  Olli.Voima@DataFellows.com

or  visit out website at
http:// www.DataFellows.com

ALSO, VISIT OUT BOOTH AT CEBIT´98 (HALL 3, STAND B46)

¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤
Mia.Westerholm@DataFellows.com 
http://www.DataFellows.com

Data Fellows Ltd.
PL 24
FIN-02231 ESPOO, FINLAND
Tel. +358 9 859 900
Fax. +358 9 8599 0599




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: The Spectre 
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 13:27:45 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Software license detector vans
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 13:15 3/17/98 , you wrote:

>Well, you don't have to cover *every* house, just *any* house. THe
>Brits have vans that roam around looking for unlisenced sattelite
>receivers, and it provides a pretty effective deterrant.

That works in that scenario, but you do have to monitor *every* house, and
continually, if you want to catch a software pirate.. in the satellite
scenario, they're just looking for a signal to see if it exists or not.  In
the M$ scheme, you'd have to get the license key and compare it against a
database to see if that license key was in use by anyone else at that exact
moment... it's not illegal to use multiple copies of the same piece of
software, it's just illegal to use them concurrently.


-The Spectre [SP4 w/ clam cluster]
-http://www.anthrax.net/cos
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher
esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
		-- Neitzsche, _The_Dawn_
PGP key available from servers.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: TruthMonger 
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 17:24:31 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Corporate Children
Message-ID: <350F3DCF.6718@dev.null>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


[Bienfait Nutly News] IN A RIOTOUS, DRUNKEN ORGY AT THE COALDUST SALOON,
representatives of Canadian Funeral Home Association celebrated their
success in bribing enough Canadian officials, bureaucrats, politicians
and mobsters to pull off the advertising coupe of the century.
Beginning on April 19, 1998, at 9:02 a.m., Canadian funeral homes will
be able to bid on advertising space on the ceilings of maternity wards,
birthing rooms and infant care facilities across the nation.

Jealous of the recent success of soft-drink and liquor companies in
gaining a virtual stranglehold on the public school and college market,
the CFHA appealed to the North American Advertising Coalition for 
support, on the grounds that establishing a Cradle-to-Grave precedent
for access to the minds of the citizens would be good for the industry
as a whole.
Lou Armbuster, who engineered Smith & Wesson's successful bid for 
access to the prison advertising market, stated, "We are certain that
this will be a major step in preventing people from putting off dealing
with funeral arrangements until it is too late, leaving their relatives
vulnerable to unscrupulous operators during their period of grief."
When asked about the rumor that the "Vote Hoffa" ads appearing on
the sides of the majority of coffins recently was part of a pre-
arranged deal for Teamster Union support, Mr. Armbuster punched out
the lights of the reportwhore who asked the question.

PGP Inc., under fire recently for the fact that their latest version
of Corporate GAKware has a 'comment' line that defaults to "Louis
Freeh for President!", contends that it does not constitute free
political advertising, since the customer has the option to change it.
Nevertheless, PGP refuses to drop their lawsuit against the FrostBack
they consider responsible for hacking their system and altering their
source code so that new versions of PGP installed on Canadian systems
have a default comment line of "Cindy Cohn has a great ass!"

-----
The Bienfait Nutly News is in no way connected to the Left Nutly
News or the Right Nutly News. We prefer to remain in the middle,
in the tradition of our founder, Dick Richard.
-----





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Brian W. Buchanan" 
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 19:47:41 -0800 (PST)
To: John Young 
Subject: Re: Will New Sendmail Block Remailers?
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19980317141322.006c25cc@pop.pipeline.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Tue, 17 Mar 1998, John Young wrote:

> 
> Markoff in the NYT reports today on the release of a new 
> Sendmail upgrade by author Eric Allman that will block 
> spam by checking the legitimacy of the originating address 
> before delivery.
> 
> The report claims that spam is up to 10% of e-mail worldwide,
> And that Sendmail is used on 75% of the computers that route 
> e-mail, all of which are being fitted with the new program.
> 
> What are the chances that this will affect remailers or other 
> means of eternal anonymity?

   I doubt it.  NYT is probably referring to the integration into the
sendmail package of rules that nix incoming mail with forged From headers,
e.g. "you.want.to@buy.this" and prevent unauthorized relaying.  Remailers
generally use a From header that includes their own legitimate domain, so
they likely won't be blocked.  However, while the anti-relay-hijacking
rules are useful (and LONG overdue), I see the the From-domain-validity
change as a Bad Thing, as it will encourage spammers to deliberately
choose existing domains to spoof in their From lines, leading to an
increase in the incidences of sites being subjected to fragmented
denial-of-service attacks, i.e. being mailbombed by the collective
complaints of all those shit-stupid AOLers who don't bother to read the
Received headers.  I've been lucky enough never to have been subjected to
one of those attacks, but from the sheer volume of complaints I once got
when a luser sent a MMF spam to USENET, I can sympathize with the victim
of a spoof.
   Yet another instance of "protection for the masses" actually providing
no real benefit and simultaneously negating the protection afforded to
those few who had previously used the defense.  A similar thing has
happened/is happening with the previously-useful "Comments: Authenticated
sender is" check for spam, which used to be nearly 95% effective at nixing
spam because most known spamming packages included the header, and only
one legitimate mailer did likewise, but was easy to make exceptions for
because it included an identifying X-Mailer header.

-- 
Brian Buchanan                                      brian@smarter.than.nu

Never believe that you know the whole story.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 13:13:12 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: PGP assimilated by NAI
Message-ID: <199803172112.WAA03178@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Anonymous wrote: 
> No doubt. I offer the observation that only someone doing
> a favor for the government or someone operating from the
> totally mind-fucked perspective of modern mismanagement
> would invest good money to buy a company whose principal
> asset was its "good will" and proceed to completely trash
> that marketplace good will, abandon the world-famous
> name of product and company, and physically assimilate
> the hapless wage slaves working there by another group
> that represents the antithesis of what PGP stood for in
> the minds of virtually all who knew it, worldwide. How
> can this _possibly_ be a good business decision in and
> of itself? Occam's Razor: It isn't -- it's only good in
> terms of what someone may have promised in return for
> destroying PGP. It's a lot easier to see how that might
> be the case than to see how NAI/NG could come out winning
> in the marketplace by cancelling out everything that PGP,
> Inc. had going for it.

  Back in the 'old days', when I had to walk ten miles, uphill,
in a blinding snowstorm, only to find that computers did not
exist yet, I was a founder of one of the first Canadian 
anti-nuclear grassroots organizations.
  Once the anti-nuke movement had progressed to the point  
where it was a viable entity, worthy of press coverage,
etc., the Canadian government began to 'recognize' the
legitimacy of the movement, and to 'fund' it (hee-hee).
  I went to the self-congratulatory celebration party held
by the members of the group I had founded who had managed
to line up at the government trough by abandoning their
ethics and values in favor of a government-mandated policy
of taking a 'reasonable' middle-road in the group's activities.
  I was there for eleven minutes. I spent the first five minutes
shoveling as much free food as humanly possible down my throat.
I spent the next five minutes draining every bottle of free
liquor in sight down my throat. I spent the next minute barfing
everything I had consumed all over the government representative
who was in attendance to make certain that everyone was toeing
the line and not saying 'bad things' about the Canadian government
or the Nuclear Power Industry.

Prologic Management Systems, Inc., bought Basis, Inc., in Berzerkeley
a couple years ago (considered by some to be the main lair of a 
secret organization dedicated to preventing the Evil One from using
computer technology to imprison the minds and souls of humankind).
My research indicated that Prologic was a spook-owned 'company killer'
which specialized in buying out and decimating companies who actually
had a capacity to resist the diabolical aims of the NWO.
When Network Associates bought PGP, I did similar research on NAI
and Network General, and came to the same conclusions.

> ("Psst! Buy PGP
> and fuck it over until no one recognizes or trusts it,
> and we'll throw you a $50 million contract next year
> from our Black Budget!")

  I have a friend in Arizona who asks me for investment advice, and
I recently told him to invest heavily in companies being acquired
by WorldComm.
  My rationalization for his investing heavily in companies in league
with the Anti-Christ was that, when Jesus comes back, he'll have 
enough money to buy him a meal and drinks at the best restaurant in
town, thus redeeming himself.

> This is a Pretty Good Example of why it was a Pretty
> Bad Idea to form PGP, Inc. in the first place. Phil,
> the brave but too-politically-correct middle-aged naive
> liberal guy, is seeing his creation burn to ashes before
> his eyes. Parents should never outlive their children --
> it ruins them, as is part of the game plan here, I
> suspect.
 
> FuckedAgainGeezMyAssIsGettingSoreMonger II

Whenever the government 'legitimatizes' any organization/product, it
is generally for the purpose of co-opting/fucking them.
The government uses the carrot-stick method on the citizen-animal.
First, it gives them the carrot/benefit for registering their identity
with the government (SSN#) and then it gives them the stick/buttfucking
once they are identified and categorized.

ImFromTheGovernmentAndImHereToHelpBendOverAndGiveMeYourNumberMonger





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: The Spectre 
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 20:12:23 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: EMI, Van Eck, etc.
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


In almost every writing I've come across regarding Van Eck, I notice the
phrase "...simply a modified television" or something along those lines.

Does anyone have a document for actually modifying a television set to do
this sort of thing?  It doesn't have to be extremely long ranged, and could
in fact be very short range.. I am interested in performing my own
experiments into defeating this sort of eavesdropping.

Also, would it be possible to scramble the signal into an unusable level by
simply putting another device emanating RF at the snooping frequencies
nearby the machine that you want to protect?  Something generating white
noise at that frequency, but with a purposely built antenna, say a high
gain type turned outward from the monitor, with a significantly higher
power output than the monitor?

Thanks..

-The Spectre [SP4 w/ Clam Cluster]
-http://www.anthrax.net/cos
"No man is clever enough to know all the evil he does."  -  La Rochefoucauld





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: TOTO ENTERPRISES 
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 21:53:36 -0800 (PST)
To: bill payne 
Subject: PROGRAMMERS WANTED !!!
In-Reply-To: <3504A945.1286@nmol.com>
Message-ID: <350F7879.436@sk.sympatico.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


TOTO ENTERPRISES is looking for C, C++, and Java programmers to
write code designed to identify and categorize persons of Jewish
extraction from a variety of government, public and private databases
around the world.

Applicants should be company-oriented individuals who have no qualms
about writing code that contains no backdoors that would allow those
who later worry about the use their creations are being put to access
to the systems of those using those programs.

No cryptography skills will be required of those applicants working
in areas where U.S. exportable crypto is dominant.

Applicants will be able to work from their homes, with only occassional
trips to the Antarctic required.

Applicants who can translate "We're from the government and we're here
to help you." into several different languages will be given preference.

Applicants who can translate "We're from the government and we're here
to help you into the cattle-cars." into several different languages
will automatically be given credit for applicable prior work experience.

To receive an application by email, reply to this message with an
empty message body, and a 'Subject' header of, "Mein Kamf."

(True CypherPunks need not apply...)





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 19:27:09 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: The Eighth Word You Can't Say On The Internet
Message-ID: <199803180327.EAA11046@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Armies Gather by Jeff Elliott 

The most surprising place where anti-abortion provisions have appeared,
however,
                   was in the mammoth Telecommunications Deregulation
Bill. Late in the day of January 30th,
                   Colorado Representative Pat Schroeder made an
unpleasant discovery: a last-minute addition
                   appeared to make it a crime to discuss abortion on
the Internet. 

                   The Telcom Bill already had the controversial
"Communications Decency Act" that made it a felony
                   to mention the seven dirty words forbidden on radio
or TV; that was well known, and much
                   discussed in both the House and the Senate. But this
abortion clause was new, and would make
                   "abortion" the eighth word banned from cyberspace. 

                   The ACLU and 19 other organizations filed for a
temporary restraining order on the same day that
                   Clinton signed the bill. But while the federal judge
ruled, the vague "indecency" provisions were
                   probably unconstitutional and should be heard by a
special 3-judge panel, the restraining order on
                   the abortion section was denied. 

                   Schroeder and others are trying to repeal the ancient
law behind these restrictions, but passage in the
                   rightward-tilted House is far from certain.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 04:16:17 -0800 (PST)
To: jya@pipeline.com (John Young)
Subject: Re: Will New Sendmail Block Remailers?
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19980317141322.006c25cc@pop.pipeline.com>
Message-ID: <199803181215.GAA31936@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text


John Young wrote:
> Markoff in the NYT reports today on the release of a new 
> Sendmail upgrade by author Eric Allman that will block 
> spam by checking the legitimacy of the originating address 
> before delivery.
> 
> The report claims that spam is up to 10% of e-mail worldwide,
> And that Sendmail is used on 75% of the computers that route 
> e-mail, all of which are being fitted with the new program.
> 
> What are the chances that this will affect remailers or other 
> means of eternal anonymity?
> 
> Except Sualk, GL, UB and Nuh, all of whom we now know 
> are Otot GinPu Tca as those crazy Syug Irtmid Irun.

WRT remailers, sendmail only checks the validity of a domain.

So if a "From " address is "anonymous@replay.com", the message
would be passed on.

I have read the Sendmail announcement from sendmail.org. The new version
is very nice and friendly to everyone except spam relayers.

	- Igor.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: qwlkty89z@xpc.xpoint.co
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 14:37:27 -0800 (PST)
To: kajd3847jclz@www.longnet.com.au
Subject: 68 Million Email Addresses - $99
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging the freedom of speech 
or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.         
    
Amendment I, The US Constitution                                                                :-)





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "A. Sheeple" 
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 09:55:13 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: They don't need no stinking privacy!
Message-ID: <35102602.1811@dev.null>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


An Open Letter To The CypherPunks:

Due to the large amounts of ridicule heaped upon the Sheeple family
by members of the CypherPunks list, I have decided to write to the
list to clarify a few of the issues on which our family's stances
are apparently misunderstood by people outside the pen.

First of all, we are AdamAnt about retaining our right to privacy,
but we recognize the need for the authorities to invade other people's 
right to privacy, in order to protect us from them.

We demand our right to a fair and impartial trial before a jury of
our peers, but we recognized the need for law enforcement agencies
and the justice system to take whatever steps are needed to make
certain that others are convicted in accordance with the desires
of the majority of their betters, according to the results of the
Sheeple polls taken by CNN and People's Court.
(Note: We, the Sheeple, are willing to do our part, and look the other
 way when those responsible for our protection need to stretch the
 boundaries of belief by claiming that a black wife-beater is not
 a suspect in the murder of his wife and her white lover, as they
 climb over a fence onto his private property, without a warrant,
 saying, "We're white men from the government, and we're here to
 help a Black-Afro American.]

We wish to exercise our right to have security in our private 
communications by employing strong cryptography, but we also
recognize the need for our government to intercept communications
by foreigners, in order to protect us and to manipulate world events
in a manner that will keep the price of our TV's as low as possible.

We wish to exercise our right to free speech, but we recognize the
need of authorities to prevent filth and vermin from using disgusting
and perverted language such as, "Baah...Baah...", instead of righteous
and politically correct language such as "Baaa...Baaa."

In short, or position is that we wish to retain all of our rights
and freedoms, but support them being compromised or taken away from
others, for the good of the Sheeple.

A. Sheeple





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: inquiry@asset-max.com (Asset-Max)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 12:27:37 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Consolidate Debts, Home Improvements
Message-ID: <199803182030.MAA15378>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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this email message may not be published, broadcast,
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Markus Kuhn 
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 05:09:40 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: EMI, Van Eck, etc.
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


The Spectre wrote on 1998-03-18 05:11 UTC:
> In almost every writing I've come across regarding Van Eck, I notice the
> phrase "...simply a modified television" or something along those lines.
> 
> Does anyone have a document for actually modifying a television set to do
> this sort of thing?  It doesn't have to be extremely long ranged, and could
> in fact be very short range.. I am interested in performing my own
> experiments into defeating this sort of eavesdropping.

Ingredients for a minimum cost quick&dirty TEMPEST experiment:

1 RF tuner of a VCR
1 antenna amplifier
1 antenna
1 multisync PC monitor
1 PC with a video card (or a pair of tuneable sync oscillators)

Connect the PC with the video card to the SYNC inputs of the multisync
monitor. Program the video card to a video mode with the same deflection
frequencies as that used by the target system. Connect the baseband output
of your tuner to the VIDEO-IN pins of your monitor. Connect the antenna
and amplifier to the RF input of your tuner. Switch on. Fill the
screen of the target device with a big symbol consisting of dithered and
non-dithered areas for best results in the first trials. Now tune
through the VHF bands starting with the dot clock frequency of the
target.

That's it basically. Such a primitive TEMPEST monitor is of course
unsuitable for evaluating the threat from much more sophisticated wide-band
DSP eavesdropping receivers that directly attempt OCR-style algorithms
on the signal with matched filters. But it is fun to play around with, it
is useful for getting a feeling for the effect, and it is suitable for
demonstrating most of the Soft Tempest tricks that I described in
.

> Also, would it be possible to scramble the signal into an unusable level by
> simply putting another device emanating RF at the snooping frequencies
> nearby the machine that you want to protect?  Something generating white
> noise at that frequency, but with a purposely built antenna, say a high
> gain type turned outward from the monitor, with a significantly higher
> power output than the monitor?

The FCC and your radiologist advise against this. Shielding is much
more elegant than jamming. Remember that CRT content is a periodic
signal, thus you can suppress uncorrelated noise by periodic averaging
rather easily. Good jamming must produce a correlated output signal.
See United States Patents 5165098 and 5297201 for descriptions of
correlated jammers. I don't think, these are widely used though, as the
TEMPEST standards seem to mandate shielding and not jamming, which I
think is very sensible.

Markus

-- 
Markus G. Kuhn, Security Group, Computer Lab, Cambridge University, UK
email: mkuhn at acm.org,  home page: 






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Graffam 
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 10:36:54 -0800 (PST)
To: The Spectre 
Subject: Re: EMI, Van Eck, etc.
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Tue, 17 Mar 1998, The Spectre wrote:
> Does anyone have a document for actually modifying a television set to do
> this sort of thing?  It doesn't have to be extremely long ranged, and could
> in fact be very short range.. I am interested in performing my own
> experiments into defeating this sort of eavesdropping.

Well, for one.. I don't think (speculation, I haven't done any real
investigation into it yet..) that this oft repeated maxim applies to
modern hi-res monitors with super refresh rates. I don't think that a
TV could be used to display emanations from a new monitor. OTOH, I
haven't looked into modern TV technology at all.. I don't know what
the new sets are really capable of. Suffice it to say, you probably
won't be able to modify an older set to snoop on a new monitor set up
at 1280x1024, but if for experiment purposes to just did a text display
you should be able to snoop that with an older set.

> Also, would it be possible to scramble the signal into an unusable level by
> simply putting another device emanating RF at the snooping frequencies
> nearby the machine that you want to protect?  Something generating white
> noise at that frequency, but with a purposely built antenna, say a high
> gain type turned outward from the monitor, with a significantly higher
> power output than the monitor?

I would think that any device of this sort would make the monitor's 
display rather distorted.. unless you put shielding around it to
protect it, but that same shielding would prevent usable EMR.

Find the Unofficial Tempest Homepage (sorry, dont have the URL handy..
but I found it a few times by searching out the title from altavista)
it has links to Van Eck's original paper, and if memory serves papers
that "fill in" the gaps of Van Eck's work to help in modifying
equipment.

Michael J. Graffam (mgraffam@mhv.net)
http://www.mhv.net/~mgraffam -- Philosophy, Religion, Computers, Crypto, etc
"Act only according to that maxim by which you can at the same time will that
it should become a universal law.." - Immanuel Kant "Metaphysics of Morals"

** This message not PGP signed because I am logged in through an insecure
** channel. Caution may be warranted.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 10:48:01 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: PRZ on PGP/NAI/TIS/Key Recovery
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980318184942.006dedbc@pop.pipeline.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 12:48:48 -0500
To: jya@jya.com
From: Ed Stone 
Subject: PGP/NAI merger and key recovery

I received the following email from Phil Zimmermann, regarding concerns I
have expressed about NAI's acquisition of TIS, a substantial contractor to
the National Security Agency, and a major developer of key recovery
capabilities.

>> begin PRZ email<<<

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 01:20:34 -0800
To: estone@synernet.com
From: Philip Zimmermann 
Subject: PGP/NAI merger and key recovery
Cc: prz@pgp.com

Ed, I saw your recent remarks in comp.security.pgp.discuss.  I'd like
to make a few points.  You may quote me on this.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Mergers are complex operations, especially mergers of publicly traded 
companies of this size.  NAI and TIS will not fully close the merger deal 
for about 60 days.  Until then, there are many policy details we cannot 
discuss in public.

NAI has no plans to incorporate TIS's key recovery technology in any 
version of PGP, including our business versions.  I have discussed this
point with NAI management.

I have not changed my political values regarding privacy and crypto.
I would not have allowed the sale of my company to NAI if they were 
going to buy PGP in order to bury PGP, as some have feared.  They 
bought PGP because they value the reputation that PGP has earned in 
the industry.  They want to preserve that reputation by preserving 
PGP's product integrity.  I plan to keep watch over PGP's product 
integrity for the foreseeable future.

NAI plans to keep publishing our source code for peer review.  Source 
code publication in printed books is a vital part of NAI's business 
strategy, especially its overseas strategy.  There will be an important
announcement on this subject on 20 March at CeBit in Hannover Germany.

 -Philip Zimmermann

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP 5.5.5

iQA/AwUBNQ+RzWPLaR3669X8EQLuRwCcDowyBBr32YtbsnYSHy6clTW+7CwAnjpk
KnVN0NVreBNuIOyxsAcWIb40
=vY/q
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

>>>end PRZ email<<<
--
-------------------
Ed Stone
estone@synernet.com
-------------------





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 11:20:26 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: EMI, Van Eck, etc.
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980318192230.006ee93c@pop.pipeline.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Michael Graffam wrote:

>Find the Unofficial Tempest Homepage (sorry, dont have the URL handy..

That's Joel McNamara's bountiful and ever-growing TEMPEST site:

   http://www.eskimo.com/~joelm/tempest.html

While the work of Markus Kuhn and Ross Anderson provide more recent
unclassified information Joel has a standing request for any TEMPEST
material that is created by research or liberated from tax-pits and fat
corp labs. Some black stuff comes over the transom.

RF and EM offensive and defensive weapons are whitehot in national 
security labs around the globe, and probably equally so in commercial 
cages where NDA transgressors are hoovering dual-usage technologies 
out of MOD's coffers like subway turnstile-suckers.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: jim@mentat.com (Jim Gillogly)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 14:50:15 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: PRZ comments
Message-ID: <9803182246.AA29563@mentat.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Somebody quoted PRZ's message about the NAI/PGP/TIS merger deal,
which puts to rest for now some of  concerns about the weird
juxtaposition of companies, anyway.  He didn't address the
issue of NAI becoming a KRAP again.

Anonymous quoted:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
...
> announcement on this subject on 20 March at CeBit in Hannover Germany.
> 
> -Philip Zimmermann
> 
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

and then s/he said:
> I'm just curious, and no offense intended, but Phil's signature is
> bad in the signed message.  I'm using PGP 5.55, and it has his key
> in it, and it doesn't check out.  "Things that make you go 'hmmmmm'".......

Just a formatting problem.  If you put a space before the "-Philip" the
message checks just fine.  There are several other copies of the message
posted around the Web already with the correct formatting, and the other
one I checked had the spacing right already (which is how I knew where to
look on this copy).  See, for example, the copy at http://jya.com .

	Jim Gillogly




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Eric Tune" 
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 15:24:52 -0800 (PST)
To: "Ken Williams" 
Subject: Re: interNIC is a bunch of fuckwads... (fwd)
Message-ID: <000e01bd52c5$03f27c20$2a06ea18@paladin.lvcablemodem.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


>
>A friend of mine put in a request to reg "pimpshit.com" the other day
but
>it was DENIED by interNIC because it was deemed "innapropriate"..
>
>WHAT THE FUCK?  lets see, fucker.com *isn't* innapropriate?
assmaster.com
>isn't?  what the hell crawled up their asses and died?  why is a
>commercial corporation running the internet?  why is free speech
being
>taken away by these fuckwads? let me guess, they also will support
CDA2.
>and any other censorship bullshit that our government tries to
"protect
>us" with?
>
>goddamnit,. people should be able to reg whatever the fuck they want.
from
>pussy.org, to nigger.com... I don't give a fuck if it's offensive to
me or
>anybody, people should still have that very simple right.
>
>so, does anyone know what the story is? is interNIC going to refuse
>re-registration for such names as fucker.com nigger.com pussy.com
etc...?
>or are they just refusing new registration with "innapropriate"
stuff?
>They'd better refuse re-registration, otherwise it's totally unfair
to
>EVERYBODY... hell, they're already being unfair to everybody..
>
>fuckers.
>

Don't that just suck... I was a bit pessimistic about finding
fucker.com, but lo and behold, there it was, www.fucker.com ...talk
about bullshit.  If they will register this, they should register
"pimpshit.com" too.  Talk about "selective memory loss"...sheesh.  I'm
heading to their site (internic) to bitch about their selective and
prejudicial policy "change"...

Eric J. Tune
paladin@lvcablemodem.com
PGP 5.55 and 2.62 keys available upon request.
DO NOT EXPORT STRONG CRYPTO BELOW...OH NO!
print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo
"16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<>
)]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 12:52:36 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: interNIC is a bunch of fuckwads... (fwd)
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 11:19:15 -0800 (PST)
From: Christian Hedegaard 
To: dc-stuff@merde.dis.org
Cc: kemkidd@clearink.com
Subject: interNIC is a bunch of fuckwads...


A friend of mine put in a request to reg "pimpshit.com" the other day but
it was DENIED by interNIC because it was deemed "innapropriate"..

WHAT THE FUCK?  lets see, fucker.com *isn't* innapropriate? assmaster.com
isn't?  what the hell crawled up their asses and died?  why is a
commercial corporation running the internet?  why is free speech being
taken away by these fuckwads? let me guess, they also will support CDA2.
and any other censorship bullshit that our government tries to "protect
us" with?

goddamnit,. people should be able to reg whatever the fuck they want. from
pussy.org, to nigger.com... I don't give a fuck if it's offensive to me or
anybody, people should still have that very simple right.

so, does anyone know what the story is? is interNIC going to refuse
re-registration for such names as fucker.com nigger.com pussy.com etc...?
or are they just refusing new registration with "innapropriate" stuff?
They'd better refuse re-registration, otherwise it's totally unfair to
EVERYBODY... hell, they're already being unfair to everybody..

fuckers.

--
ICQ: 8141565
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"It's yet another in a long series of diversions in an attempt to avoid
responsibilty" -Chris Knight, "Real Genius"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Out the SPARC, through the router, down the fiber, off another router, down
the T3, past the firewall... nuthin but NET"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 07:59:11 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: You've got to save room for desert...
Message-ID: <199803181558.QAA21882@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Takes 18 bee hummingbirds to weigh as much as a shot of
whiskey.

==============================================
LMBoyd Web Site / U. S. Newspapers / Start Email / Stop Email 
http://www.LMBoyd.com/postscript.htm






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Genocide 
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 17:13:07 -0800 (PST)
To: Ken Williams 
Subject: Re: interNIC is a bunch of fuckwads... (fwd)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Wed, 18 Mar 1998, Ken Williams wrote:

> A friend of mine put in a request to reg "pimpshit.com" the other day but
> it was DENIED by interNIC because it was deemed "innapropriate"..

	I once remember a time when there was this well known story about
"Freedom of Speech", I believe it's only a rumor in todays world.

Genocide
Head of the Genocide2600 Group
Board Member of E.H.A.P

============================================================================
         ____________________
  *---===|                  |===---*
  *---===|     Genocide     |===---*  "Courage is not defined by those who 
  *---===|       2600       |===---*   fought and did not fall, but by those
  *---===|__________________|===---*   who fought, fell, and rose again."
                                       
Email:  Genocide@Genocide2600.com
Web:	http://www.Genocide2600.com

Check out the mud at:		genocide2600.com 6666

============================================================================





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@nsm.htp.org
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 10:06:02 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: fight back at SPAM!
Message-ID: <19980318180502.25156.qmail@nsm.htp.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I received some annoying spam today.  Unbelievably, they included a 1-800
number.  Since they wasted my time, I thought I'd call them up and waste
their time (on their nickel!).

I got a recording asking me to leave a message.  I then called back and
it stated that this was my last call for the day.  Apparently they only
accept two phone calls from each distinct phone number.

The phone number is 1-800-338-6150 if anyone else feels like calling them
up and tying up their phone line. 

I'm not going to mention what they're selling, since that would be doing
them a favor.  Maybe when they get their phone bill they will realize the
problems associated with direct email marketing on the Internet.  ;-)

If a honest-to-goodness live person answers, just talk to 'em and try to
keep them on the line as long as possible.  Ask questions about their
product, etc.  The longer they talk to you, the more it costs them!

You get the picture! 

Enjoy!







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 10:06:44 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: The Rapist from the Internet Chat Room
Message-ID: <199803181805.TAA12602@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


   Alleged `Cybersex' Victim Testifies 
   By SAMUEL MAULL, Associated Press Writer
   
NEW YORK -- A woman who says a graduate student she met online tied her up
and raped her in his apartment tearfully described for jurors how she
begged, "Don't rape me, don't dismember me, don't kill me" before escaping.

   In emotional testimony Tuesday, the 22 -year-old woman said she managed
to untie herself from a futon, fight off her assailant and flee.

   "I was sore.  I was exhausted.  I didn't want to move," she said, then
describing how she loosed the cloth strips:  "I felt so good!  I got it
undone and I stood up!  I got it undone!  I looked at him and he looked
frightened!  I'm not going to die!"

   The witness, who said she was naked while tied up, said she grabbed her
clothes and got dressed while running for the door and fighting off the man
who had held her as a sex captive for more than 20 hours.

   "He tried to catch me," she said.  "I just kept fighting.  I wouldn't
let him get any part of me.  I ran to the door and clenched the handle
because I was not going to be tied up again."

   The woman says her tormentor was Oliver Jovanovic, 31, a Columbia
University doctoral candidate in molecular biology whom she met in an
Internet chat room.

   Jovanovic is charged with kidnapping, sodomy, aggravated sex abuse and
assault against the woman in his apartment following their first date Nov.
22, 1996.

   The woman said Jovanovic had tied her up, dripped hot candle wax on her
abdomen and genital area, bit her breasts until they bled and used a
nightstick to sexually abuse her.

   The woman said Jovanovic attacked her after a discussion about good and
evil and became upset when she said she believes people are not inherently
evil.  He then ordered her to undress, she said.

   Defense lawyer Jack Litman said no violence occurred between the two and
that any sexual activity, while it might have been unusual, was consensual.

   He quoted from e-mail messages sent by the woman to Jovanovic before and
after their date in which she talks about sadomasochism in what appear to
be terms of approval.

   The e-mail messages the woman sent to Jovanovic included one that reads
"Rough is good," and another that reads "I would go through the pleasure of
hell's pain."

   The woman testified that she sought out Jovanovic because she thought he
was intelligent, knowledgeable and interesting.

   Litman called the woman unstable and overly imaginative.  He said she is
blaming the evening's activity on Jovanovic to absolve herself of something
she likes but considers dirty.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 12:26:25 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: PRZ comments
Message-ID: <199803182030.VAA13078@china.netassist.se>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


>> begin PRZ email<<<

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 01:20:34 -0800
To: estone@synernet.com
From: Philip Zimmermann 
Subject: PGP/NAI merger and key recovery
Cc: prz@pgp.com

Ed, I saw your recent remarks in comp.security.pgp.discuss.  I'd like
to make a few points.  You may quote me on this.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Mergers are complex operations, especially mergers of publicly traded 
companies of this size.  NAI and TIS will not fully close the merger deal 
for about 60 days.  Until then, there are many policy details we cannot 
discuss in public.

NAI has no plans to incorporate TIS's key recovery technology in any 
version of PGP, including our business versions.  I have discussed this
point with NAI management.

I have not changed my political values regarding privacy and crypto.
I would not have allowed the sale of my company to NAI if they were 
going to buy PGP in order to bury PGP, as some have feared.  They 
bought PGP because they value the reputation that PGP has earned in 
the industry.  They want to preserve that reputation by preserving 
PGP's product integrity.  I plan to keep watch over PGP's product 
integrity for the foreseeable future.

NAI plans to keep publishing our source code for peer review.  Source 
code publication in printed books is a vital part of NAI's business 
strategy, especially its overseas strategy.  There will be an important
announcement on this subject on 20 March at CeBit in Hannover Germany.

-Philip Zimmermann

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP 5.5.5

iQA/AwUBNQ+RzWPLaR3669X8EQLuRwCcDowyBBr32YtbsnYSHy6clTW+7CwAnjpk
KnVN0NVreBNuIOyxsAcWIb40
=vY/q
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

>>>end PRZ email<<<
--
-------------------
Ed Stone
estone@synernet.com
-------------------

I'm just curious, and no offense intended, but Phil's signature is bad in the signed message.  I'm using PGP 5.55, and it has his key in it, and it doesn't check out.  "Things that make you go 'hmmmmm'".......






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Brian B. Riley" 
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 18:50:33 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: Re: PRZ comments
Message-ID: <199803190250.VAA29972@mx01.together.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On 3/18/98 3:30 PM, Anonymous (this-will-bounce@zoom.nu)  passed this
wisdom:

>
>>> begin PRZ email<<<
>
>Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 01:20:34 -0800
>To: estone@synernet.com
>From: Philip Zimmermann 
>Subject: PGP/NAI merger and key recovery
>Cc: prz@pgp.com
>
>Ed, I saw your recent remarks in comp.security.pgp.discuss.I'd like
>to make a few points.  You may quote me on this.
>
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1

 The signature fails ....

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0
Charset: noconv

iQEVAwUBNRCH4T7r4fUXwraZAQEGuAf/SkPKROnsZpZnLfZQ5uiT5RwBw2RTNeky
gKEGXOlTFrDRHq00qm5xovXp7Oohw0JsqthwkVHiLLAPHJWEVtjzhgV0B291gF1p
2w/giHj6yl8sh1gExjLqb7Xe+NH3xy3myan6vCNFzcn2GG9QIIBZjEpg/noYt4GI
2mgFcauYk9mNBKi1AWJprz5O7ZS9oF/Q8om9K+CVS5ejCQXQCeeIy82hBE5Dlglg
nk00fyiC9mImJo6ZdSGAM4OG7d5LiHZ4s5ZKCxai/Bf03YSm8fByEUsSLnDVmjyd
xRGzpQhawCbvr6EQ0X1lPMiB36VnBp5I/sPLjm0OnuBAOOzwXUvtDw==
=TkXG
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


Brian B. Riley --> http://members.macconnect.com/~brianbr
 For PGP Keys  

"May God stand between you and harm, in all the empty places where you
 must walk." - Susan Ivonava, Babylon 5






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 19:30:29 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Fuck U Dickwads wrote:
> 
> Those reporters who step outside of the scratch-and-sniff mentality
> that guarantees a large pay-per-sniff audience of rubberneckers are
> asking questions that have to do with access to 'National Security'
> matters (deemed important enough to destroy the Constitution over) being
> granted to individuals whose main qualification seems to be a great
> set of hooters, or a sizeable donation to the correct political party.

I count on TruthMonger as -my- mainstream news source.

I'llKissYouOnTheLipsButIWon'tPutMyTongueInYourMouthMonger






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Tristan Muller" 
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 23:13:24 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: JDesignerPro 2.5 just released
Message-ID: <19980319070533968.AQZ71@www.bulletproof.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hi Cypher,
As a Microsoft Site Builder participant, BulletProof Corporation wants you 
to know about our latest release:  

Just Released!

A while back you downloaded JDesignerPro 2.02 from the Site Builder 
Network.  Version 2.5 is a much improved product with new Wizards, 
printing capability, JavaBeans support, the Deployment Manager and 
many other enhancements. 

JDesignerPro 2.5
The Java RAD Tool for Business Applications

Download a free trial today (3MB):  http://www.bulletproof.com

*  WIN JDesignerPro - $1200 Product Giveaway: 
Download and Install JDesignerPro 2.5 to find out how to win. Contest 
ends March 28th.

* Buy before April 9th to save $300
As of April 9, 1998 the price of the JDesignerPro Standard System 
will increase to $995.  Until then BulletProof is offering a grace period 
at the current $695 price.  

* JDesignerPro 2.5 Is For You
JDesignerPro 2.5 is an easy to use tool for developers to build and 
deploy data-driven business applications for the Web - Sales 
Management, Inventory Management, Help Desk, Customer Care, 
Decision Support, etc.  If you need to manage data through an Intranet, 
JDesignerPro is for you.  For many basic database applications, no 
knowledge of Java is required.

* Press Quotes
"If you're looking for a database development environment that 
leverages Java's finest virtues, JDesignerPro is it."  DBMS Magazine

"This may be one of JDP's biggest advantages for database developers 
who find themselves thrust into Java development: No Java 
programming is necessary. Developers can implement any standard 
functions simply by associating one component's method with another 
component's event."  InternetWorld magazine

* Microsoft Site Builder Network
Microsoft is one of our best partners and they've agreed to offer the 
new version 2.5 of JDesignerPro on the updated Site Builder Network.  
If you're a Site Builder member, you'll see BulletProof listed on the 
download area.  

* Major New Features of JDesignerPro 2.5

* FastSockets(tm) Technology in JAGGServer.  With BulletProof's 
innovative FastSockets you'll see substantial speed improvements 
of nearly 300% throughout the development and deployment 
processes.  FastSockets is a seamless integration requiring no 
effort on your part.  The included JAGGServer(tm) middleware 
handles JDBC/ODBC database access, load balancing and more.  
All SQL and server messaging is created automatically.

* Application Wizards -   The Screen Wizards are now part of the
Application Builder.  Build complete forms, charts, master/details 
70% faster than before.  

* Enhanced Data Wizards - Unprecedented speed, thanks to 
FastSockets, and ease in building complex data-aware interfaces.

* Year 2000 compliance - With the end of the millennium lurking 
JDesignerPro is fully year 2000 compliant. You can now easily 
specify your default date format. 

*  International Language Support - JDP now lets you customize the
interface to allow for different language support. This feature can 
also be used to customize the labels and messages of JDesignerPro 
to your needs. 

*  New component features - Several new features have been 
added to the existing JDesignerPro components such as date pop 
ups in the Text Grid again allowing you to create the most powerful 
finished application without any hand coding. 

Download a free trial today:  http://www.bulletproof.com

*  WIN JDesignerPro - $1200 Product Giveaway: 
Download and Install JDesignerPro 2.5 to find out how to win. Contest 
ends March 28th.

* See us at JavaOne, Moscone Center, San Francisco, March 24-27 
in the Sun partner pavilion!

Thanks for taking the time to read this.

Regards,
Tristan Muller
Customer Support
BulletProof Corporation


*If you don't want to be notified of future product releases simply reply 
to this message and place the word 'remove' in the subject.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: The Spectre 
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 20:38:48 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Software license detector vans
In-Reply-To: <35100ECB.4466@nac.net>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 20:44 3/18/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Standard UPS's do not operate with their batteries "on-line" but in
>standby mode. Because of this you do not get any of the filtering affect
>from the batteries. You can get good "online" UPS's with gel-cell battery
>banks but they cost $$$. Look at some of the companies that service the
>telcom industry providing UPS for switchrooms. Line conditioning on the
>standard UPS's (PC Decsktop grade) is medeocere at best and are designed
>for leveling out power fluctuations not for filtering data leakage.
>
>If Tempest is a serious concern I recomend a dual battery bank so one bank
>can be charging while the other is in use. Physicial disconnects on both
>battery banks between the computer and between outside power grid to
>insure physicial issolation durring operations.

While I agree with you in that total security is only possible if you
completely isolate the system, I think that the original person posting
wasn't referring to the batteries, but rather the conditioning that is
going on inside the UPS.  Any decent ups will put the incoming power
through a "conditioner" that will filter out noise in the incoming power,
and rebuild the wave so that transient sags and spikes don't get through.

It stands to reason that these filters would work in reverse, since they
are AC filters.  Most AC circutry works equally well in reverse as forward.
 DC circuitry would probably filter out noise equally as well since it
simply won't work in reverse for the most part, it'll simply resist any
reverse current until it blows.

Of course, I make no claims about noise that the transformer itself may
make while it does it's filtering that someone might be able to use to
determine what was filtered out.


-The Spectre [SP4 w/ Clam Cluster]
-http://www.anthrax.net/cos
"No man is clever enough to know all the evil he does."  -  La Rochefoucauld





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Frantz 
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 00:40:17 -0800 (PST)
To: Ryan Anderson 
Subject: Re: Will New Sendmail Block Remailers?
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19980317141322.006c25cc@pop.pipeline.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 8:58 AM -0800 3/17/98, Ryan Anderson wrote:
>> Markoff in the NYT reports today on the release of a new
>> Sendmail upgrade by author Eric Allman that will block
>> spam by checking the legitimacy of the originating address
>> before delivery.
>>
>> ...
>
>All it really does is force spammers to search for someone's real address
>to spoof and harass.  (They can just scan usenet, and pick on random
>people if they want..)

The ultimate end of this line of measure/countermeasure is code that sniffs
out peoples passwords so spammers can "borrow" their accounts to send a
million or so messages.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz       | If hate must be my prison  | Periwinkle -- Consulting
(408)356-8506     | lock, then love must be    | 16345 Englewood Ave.
frantz@netcom.com | the key.     - Phil Ochs   | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSquncr 
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 21:47:34 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Chicken "anons" and "nobody's"
Message-ID: <170eb93a.3510b14a@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


In a message dated 98-03-18 22:53:53 EST, anon@anon.efga.org writes:

<< I count on TruthMonger as -my- mainstream news source.>>

Who's that, the "TruthMeister? (Rush Limbaugh)"

You would, you're an idiot (any person who counts on any one person as the
only source of news, is an idiot).

Stan




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSquncr 
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 22:08:50 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: UPSs
Message-ID: <5b89711e.3510b439@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


In a message dated 98-03-18 23:54:33 EST, spectre@anthrax.net writes:

<< ... Any decent ups will put the incoming power
 through a "conditioner" that will filter out noise in the incoming power,
 and rebuild the wave so that transient sags and spikes don't get through. ...
>>

BUT, even the fastest electronics cannot respond fast enough to the initial
spike, if that spike is too high in the first place (if your incoming power
lines get hit by lightning, for instance), it's already too late.  My
suggestion, don't trust a UPS to eliminate spikes, get it if you anticipate a
need for back-up power to shut down your system in case of black-out (and
screw the surge protectors, trust the filtering in your power supply to do
that for you.)

Stan




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 16:18:30 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: PRZ 'corrections'
Message-ID: <199803190018.BAA11664@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Anonymous (from anon@anon.efga.org) wrote:

> Anonymous (from this-will-bounce@zoom.nu) wrote:
 > > I'm just curious, and no offense intended, but Phil's signature is
bad
> > in the signed message.  I'm using PGP 5.55, and it has his key in it,
> > and it doesn't check out.  "Things that make you go 'hmmmmm'".......

> You took out the space before "-Philip Zimmermann".  Put it back as it
> was originally and the signature verifies fine:

I'm getting mighty tired of the anonymous motherfuckers posting through
efga.org interfering with the attempts of the anonymous saints posting
through the other anonymous remailers to spread CSM (Cluelessness,
Stupidity and Misinformation) throughout the Internet.

Remember:
"If you're not living in space, you're taking up too much of the edge."
~ No Beer





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Yupin Mungdee 
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 05:09:12 -0800 (PST)
To: Bill Frantz 
Subject: Re: Will New Sendmail Block Remailers?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> >All it really does is force spammers to search for someone's real address
> >to spoof and harass.  (They can just scan usenet, and pick on random
> >people if they want..)
> 
> The ultimate end of this line of measure/countermeasure is code that sniffs
> out peoples passwords so spammers can "borrow" their accounts to send a
> million or so messages.

But that can be defeated with encryption.

Another possible "ultimate end" for the spammer wars would be making
spamming illegal, like fax spamming, and having the cops hunting down the
spammers. But that can be defeated with truly anonymous markets, still
assuming that encryption will be legal.

To really beat spamming we probably need filters that only allow messages
from inside our web of trust. Don't you agree?






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ken Williams 
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 02:11:53 -0800 (PST)
To: StanSquncr 
Subject: Re: Chicken "anons" and "nobody's"
In-Reply-To: <170eb93a.3510b14a@aol.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Thu, 19 Mar 1998, StanSquncr wrote:

>In a message dated 98-03-18 22:53:53 EST, anon@anon.efga.org writes:
>
><< I count on TruthMonger as -my- mainstream news source.>>
>
>Who's that, the "TruthMeister? (Rush Limbaugh)"
>
>You would, you're an idiot (any person who counts on any one person as the
>only source of news, is an idiot).
>
>Stan
>

Well, Stan, all of the news you read ultimately comes from the one person
selected by Clinton to drive The Propoganda Machine up in Washington, DC.

Ken Williams

ORG: NC State Computer Science Dept     VP of The E.H.A.P. Corp.   
EML: jkwilli2@adm.csc.ncsu.edu          ehap@ehap.org             
WWW: http://152.7.11.38/~tattooman/     http://www.ehap.org/ 
PGP: finger tattooman@152.7.11.38                       







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ken Williams 
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 02:36:22 -0800 (PST)
To: StanSquncr 
Subject: Re: UPSs
In-Reply-To: <5b89711e.3510b439@aol.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Thu, 19 Mar 1998, StanSquncr wrote:

>In a message dated 98-03-18 23:54:33 EST, spectre@anthrax.net writes:
>
><< ... Any decent ups will put the incoming power
> through a "conditioner" that will filter out noise in the incoming power,
> and rebuild the wave so that transient sags and spikes don't get through. ...
>>>
>
>BUT, even the fastest electronics cannot respond fast enough to the initial
>spike, if that spike is too high in the first place (if your incoming power
>lines get hit by lightning, for instance), it's already too late.  My
>suggestion, don't trust a UPS to eliminate spikes, get it if you anticipate a
>need for back-up power to shut down your system in case of black-out (and
>screw the surge protectors, trust the filtering in your power supply to do
>that for you.)
>
>Stan

How many times have you been struck by lightning, Stan?  The effects are
showing...

Ken Williams

ORG: NC State Computer Science Dept     VP of The E.H.A.P. Corp.   
EML: jkwilli2@adm.csc.ncsu.edu          ehap@ehap.org             
WWW: http://152.7.11.38/~tattooman/     http://www.ehap.org/ 
PGP: finger tattooman@152.7.11.38                       







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 20:55:30 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: MISTY1 and MISTY2
Message-ID: <199803190454.FAA23416@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



MISTY1 and MISTY2 operate with 64-bitplain text
and cypher text blocks and is contolled by
a 128-bit key.

These two encryption algorithms call MISTY
generically.


        





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 04:25:58 -0800 (PST)
To: StanSquncr 
Subject: Re: Chicken "anons" and "nobody's"
In-Reply-To: <170eb93a.3510b14a@aol.com>
Message-ID: <199803191225.HAA21960@users.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In <170eb93a.3510b14a@aol.com>, on 03/19/98 
   at 12:46 AM, StanSquncr  said:

>In a message dated 98-03-18 22:53:53 EST, anon@anon.efga.org writes:

><< I count on TruthMonger as -my- mainstream news source.>>

>Who's that, the "TruthMeister? (Rush Limbaugh)"

>You would, you're an idiot (any person who counts on any one person as
>the only source of news, is an idiot).

You don't have a clue do you Stan??

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/esecure.html                        
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: If Windows sucked it would be good for something.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3a-sha1
Charset: cp850
Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000

iQCVAwUBNREBTo9Co1n+aLhhAQE0tAP9GR39xeKrtAYRc31BjhjC6EGRqOI46we0
NFBwTWXX6saynTvEo4gdk35Kko9W/cEKAxNsOmjDz8zsFaCX0LJNtzzcVai6g7/t
o8GLb/PbDv3i1rMw/1vJqyvMH6D2d3IuIQvUFg0luNeHnSxUT+cze1r4moeHw+Fj
yTDV7hk+lb4=
=cOih
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 06:05:57 -0800 (PST)
To: wire@monkey-boy.com
Subject: US court system
Message-ID: <351125DE.4F04@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Guys

When Sandia assigned me to break locks for the FBI/Engineering Research
Facility, project leader Peter Hamilton told me that if we got caught
there were judges who would help us.

I was not sure that I believe Hamilton then.  I do now.

Morales and I signed and mailed the petition for writ of prohibition
on the 18th

bill



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mia Westerholm 
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 05:06:29 -0800 (PST)
To: Crypto-Press-Global@DataFellows.com
Subject: Data Fellows Introduces the Security Solution for Corporate Networks - VPN+
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980319134441.006a06d8@smtp.DataFellows.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Data Fellows Ltd.  Media Release

For immediate release
19 March 1998

DATA FELLOWS INTRODUCES THE SECURITY SOLUTION FOR CORPORATE NETWORKS

F-Secure VPN+ offers worldwide strong security for all aspects of today's
networking

ESPOO, FINLAND  -- Data Fellows Ltd., a leading software development
company known for its F-Secure anti-virus and cryptography products, has
today introduced F-Secure VPN+, a complete security solution for all
enterprise networking.

F-Secure VPN+ is the successor of the award winning F-Secure VPN, an
encrypting router that enables one to build a virtual private network over
the Internet using strong cryptographic security. Now the F-Secure VPN+
product family is going one step further by facilitating the security
integration of small sites and independent workstations to the corporate
network.  The extended corporate network may include corporate sites,
partners or distributors, remote offices and even laptops. 

F-Secure VPN+ consists of three products: F-Secure VPN+ Gateway, F-Secure
VPN+ Client (for the desktop), and F-Secure VPN+ Server. These components
can be combined to build a variety of secure virtual private networks that
cover all aspects of corporate networking. Such VPNs include the following: 

- Business VPN+: provides a cost-effective security solution for intranet
connections between corporate sites. In-corporate communication can be
encrypted with powerful F-Secure VPN+ Gateways regardless of the network
technology.

- Partner VPN+: offers strong authentication and filtering capabilities for
extranet connections between an organization and its partners,
subcontractors, or distributors.  It keeps unwanted users out and
facilitates secure communication no matter where the data goes to.

- Remote Office VPN+: supports telecommuting as a method of working.  It is
a scaleable and cost-effective solution for securing communication over the
Internet for the Small Office and the Home Office.  

- Traveling VPN+: secures the extension of the corporate network to
employees on the road.  Typical remote networking applications, such as
email, or accessing corporate file servers, can be secured transparently.

- Service VPN+: is suitable for organizations offering systems management
services.  It ensures that only the authorized systems manager can access
the remote system and that administration data cannot be seen or tampered
with by unauthorized outsiders.  Service VPN also provides Internet Service
Providers with the opportunity to find new sources of revenue by offering
VPN based services, or hybrid customer networks with VPN links. Its
powerful management features help the operator in maintaining the customer
network.

"Small and medium sized organizations don't need to wait any more," Mr.
Jukka Kotovirta, Director of Sales from Data Fellows. "They are now able to
build their own networks by using regular Internet connections combined
with the 
F-Secure VPN+ security solutions. Large organizations can also utilize 
F-Secure VPN+ to extend their corporate network to sites outside the
corporate domain." 

F-Secure VPN+ is firewall and router independent, allowing for the building
of extranets on top of existing infrastructures.

"The F-Secure VPN+ architecture is uniquely wide:  it is compatible with
all existing router and firewall solutions, and all major platforms," says 
Mr. Kotovirta.  "For the end user, the strength of the product is its
transparency. As F-Secure VPN+ operates at the OSI level 3, which is
invisible at the application level, it does not require any changes to
applications or their configurations."  

The F-Secure VPN+ will be released in June-July 1998.  F-Secure VPN+ Server
will initially be available for Microsoft Windows NT and Sun Solaris. 
F-Secure VPN+ Gateway will operate in Windows NT and Solaris. 
F-Secure VPN+ Client will initially operate in Solaris, Windows NT 4 and
Windows95. The products use the SSH and IPSec security protocols.


About Data Fellows:

Data Fellows is one of the world's leading developers of data security
products with offices in San Jose, California and Espoo, Finland. Its
groundbreaking 
F-Secure product family is a unique combination of globally available,
strong encryption and revolutionary anti-virus software.  The integrated
F-Secure product range provides a complete security solution for
enterprises, and includes file encryption and IPSec communication
encryption products, VPN gateways, SSH based secure remote management
software, and a full range of anti-virus products to workstations, servers
and gateways.  Data Fellows is also the developer of the award winning
F-PROT Professional anti-virus, now part of the dual scanning engine
concept of F-Secure Anti-Virus.   

Data Fellows is privately owned.  Since it was founded in 1988, its annual
net growth of net sales has been over 80%.  Data Fellows offers a worldwide
network of technical support, training and distribution in over 70 countries. 
Data Fellows belongs to an elite group of companies that have a triple-A
rating from Dun&Bradstreet.


For further information, please contact:

Mr. Jukka Kotovirta, Director of Sales 
Tel.  +358 9 859 900, Fax. +358 9 8599 0599
E-Mail:  jukka.kotovirta@DataFellows.com

or visit our web site at 
http://www.datafellows.com

ALSO, VISIT OUT BOOTH AT CEBIT´98 (HALL 3, STAND B46)

¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤
Mia.Westerholm@DataFellows.com 
http://www.DataFellows.com

Data Fellows Ltd.
PL 24
FIN-02231 ESPOO, FINLAND
Tel. +358 9 859 900
Fax. +358 9 8599 0599




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Soft Export- Nancy Matte'" 
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 11:40:17 -0800 (PST)
To: "'cypherpunks@toad.com>
Subject: Re: Your Request for information on JDesignerPro from BulletProof, Corp
Message-ID: <01BD5345.2D145D00.info@softexport.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hi Cypher

Your inquiry to BulletProof, Corp about JDesignerPro was forwarded to us on 
Thursday, March 19, 1998.

Soft/Export is celebrating the latest release of JDesignerPro V2.32- the 
Java Client-Server interface builder.

With the ability to import any Java class JDesignerPro now becomes the best 
RAD tool for creating solutions using third party Java classes such as 
those from JScape, I-Kinetics, Rogue Wave, the KL Group, Microsoft, 
Netscape or even your own in house components or objects.

Version.2.32 supports not only importing of JavaBeans but also importing of 
ANY Java object. You can now use the AFC, IFC, JFC or any other FC that you 
can get your hands on.

This is the only 100% Pure Java tool which takes you from initial 
development to deployment all in the same environment.  Soft/Export is the 
master international reseller for JDesignerPro outside of the U.S.

If you are interested in placing an order for JDesignerPro, please fax a 
purchase order with shipping and credit card details to +353 1 294 2197 or 
email to sales@softexport.com.

To find out more about JDesignerPro or any of the other products we sell, 
visit our website at:  www.softexport.com.

Please see below for special pricing on JDesignerPro.

Please don't hesitate to contact me if you have any questions or require 
any additional assistance

BR-JDPSS2.32	 dollars	J Designer Pro 2.32 Standard System
BR-JDPEL2.32	249 dollars	J Desinger Pro 2.32  Entry Level


Yours sincerely,

Noel Hall - SoftExport, Ltd
Email: noelh@softexport.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ian Briggs 
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 14:32:06 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Does Spamming Really Exist? / Re: Will New Sendmail Block Remailers?
In-Reply-To: <3512E780.5FBD@dev.null>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980319142712.0095f1e8@deepwell.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


>> Spamming is an 'imaginary' felony, as are anonymity and encryption.

No, its actually theft of services.  

Imagine if I called you collect anytime I was out and about and your phone
automatically accepted the charge.  Then I spent a couple minutes filling
you in on my day, and how I felt.

The end of the month you get a couple hundred dollar collect bill.  

Not to mention that you don't have call waiting and there may have been
important phone calls that will have to call back later.

Then imagine I stole your cell phone to call you collect while I roamed
around other cities and filled you in on how I felt about the day so far.

And you used your Cell phone for work, and lots of people were calling you
but you weren't getting the messages, and you ended up loosing customers.


1.  ISP pay for bandwidth.
	If your outside the US 128Kbps lines can go upwards of several thousand 	a
month.
2.  Spammers relay through other ISP mail servers.
	This usually kills their mail server, or they get added to Paul Vixie's
blackhole list.
3.  It wastes ISP time.
	ISP get dozens of complaints a day and have to explain to every newbie
exactly what spam is, why they got it, etc. etc.

I know, im an ISP.

Ian




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Michael H. Warfield" 
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 13:16:22 -0800 (PST)
To: snickers@mejl.com
Subject: Re: Will New Sendmail Block Remailers?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199803192105.QAA27595@alcove.wittsend.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Yupin Mungdee enscribed thusly:
> 
> > >All it really does is force spammers to search for someone's real address
> > >to spoof and harass.  (They can just scan usenet, and pick on random
> > >people if they want..)
> > 
> > The ultimate end of this line of measure/countermeasure is code that sniffs
> > out peoples passwords so spammers can "borrow" their accounts to send a
> > million or so messages.
> 
> But that can be defeated with encryption.
> 
> Another possible "ultimate end" for the spammer wars would be making
> spamming illegal, like fax spamming, and having the cops hunting down the
> spammers. But that can be defeated with truly anonymous markets, still
> assuming that encryption will be legal.

	Oh yeah right...  Just like gambling being illegal has eliminated
it from the Internet.  We need to make it UNPROFITABLE and the scum will
slink back under the rocks they came from.

> To really beat spamming we probably need filters that only allow messages
> from inside our web of trust. Don't you agree?

	Mike
-- 
 Michael H. Warfield    |  (770) 985-6132   |  mhw@WittsEnd.com
  (The Mad Wizard)      |  (770) 925-8248   |  http://www.wittsend.com/mhw/
  NIC whois:  MHW9      |  An optimist believes we live in the best of all
 PGP Key: 0xDF1DD471    |  possible worlds.  A pessimist is sure of it!




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSquncr 
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 13:40:10 -0800 (PST)
To: jkwilli2@unity.ncsu.edu
Subject: Re: Chicken "anons" and "nobody's"
Message-ID: <31b0872b.3511906c@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


In a message dated 98-03-19 05:11:50 EST, jkwilli2@unity.ncsu.edu writes:

<< Well, Stan, all of the news you read ultimately comes from the one person
 selected by Clinton to drive The Propoganda Machine up in Washington, DC. >>

And what planet do you live on?

Stan




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSquncr 
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 13:40:06 -0800 (PST)
To: jkwilli2@unity.ncsu.edu
Subject: Re: UPSs
Message-ID: <7341d3ab.3511906d@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


In a message dated 98-03-19 05:36:18 EST, jkwilli2@unity.ncsu.edu writes:

<< How many times have you been struck by lightning, Stan?  The effects are
 showing...  >>

That, my fellow cypherpunks, was known as a 'ad hominem' attack (an attack on
(supposed) character, because Ken Williams is too STUPID (after all, he's a
"Know-nothing") to be able to attack what I've said.)

Stan




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSquncr 
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 13:39:32 -0800 (PST)
To: whgiii@invweb.net
Subject: A little Paranoid, William?
Message-ID: <48360fab.3511906d@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Their paranoia is something else that shows you who they are ("Know-nothings")
-

In a message dated 98-03-19 07:25:54 EST, whgiii@invweb.net writes:

<< -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
... 
 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
 Version: 2.6.3a-sha1
 Charset: cp850
 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000
 
 iQCVAwUBNREBTo9Co1n+aLhhAQE0tAP9GR39xeKrtAYRc31BjhjC6EGRqOI46we0
 NFBwTWXX6saynTvEo4gdk35Kko9W/cEKAxNsOmjDz8zsFaCX0LJNtzzcVai6g7/t
 o8GLb/PbDv3i1rMw/1vJqyvMH6D2d3IuIQvUFg0luNeHnSxUT+cze1r4moeHw+Fj
 yTDV7hk+lb4=
 =cOih
 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >>




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: thecompanyprez@a-vip.com
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 23:38:31 -0800 (PST)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: 9 out of 10 Americans are owed an average of $1,200.00 each!
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


There is over 400 BILLION DOLLARS in unclaimed and 
lost money in North America and we want to help people 
get their money back! 

In a continuing effort to inform the public of this money, 
Personal Funds Recovery, Inc. is launching an INFOMERCIAL
to air across North America. This INFOMERCIAL will educate millions 
of viewers about the over 400 BILLION DOLLARS that needs to be 
returned to it's rightful owners.
 
We are looking for 300 INDEPENDENT AGENTS who will become 
a part of this campaign. Each Agent will own an exclusive territory 
and will receive a percentage of every lead generated from the national 
informercial!  Your involvement will be very financially rewarding.  

Visit our website at  
to find out more about the opportunity and how you can get involved.



********************************
If you wish to be removed
please hit REPLY
and type REMOVE in the
subject line and your 
request will be honored
immediately.
********************************








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: thecompanyprez@a-vip.com
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 20:09:17 -0800 (PST)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: 9 out of 10 Americans are owed an average of $1,200.00 each!
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


There is over 400 BILLION DOLLARS in unclaimed and 
lost money in North America and we want to help people 
get their money back! 

In a continuing effort to inform the public of this money, 
Personal Funds Recovery, Inc. is launching an INFOMERCIAL
to air across North America. This INFOMERCIAL will educate millions 
of viewers about the over 400 BILLION DOLLARS that needs to be 
returned to it's rightful owners.
 
We are looking for 300 INDEPENDENT AGENTS who will become 
a part of this campaign. Each Agent will own an exclusive territory 
and will receive a percentage of every lead generated from the national 
informercial!  Your involvement will be very financially rewarding.  

Visit our website at  
to find out more about the opportunity and how you can get involved.



********************************
If you wish to be removed
please hit REPLY
and type REMOVE in the
subject line and your 
request will be honored
immediately.
********************************








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 14:42:19 -0800 (PST)
To: "Michael H. Warfield" 
Subject: Re: Will New Sendmail Block Remailers?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


So I'm told that the new version of sendmail (8.9) has the same antispam
features as 8.8  -- only difference is in defaults. True?

-Declan






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: mgraffam@mhv.net
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 15:22:08 -0800 (PST)
To: StanSquncr 
Subject: Re: A little Paranoid, William?
In-Reply-To: <48360fab.3511906d@aol.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On Thu, 19 Mar 1998, StanSquncr wrote:

> Their paranoia is something else that shows you who they are
> ("Know-nothings")

I've heard it said 'Paranoia is reality on a finer scale.'

I believe it.

If you think that signing messages is paranoia, you may be right.. I,
for one, _am_ paranoid. I know the practical attacks that can be made,
and I've seen them work and, and demonstrated how easy they are.
Worse, I've experienced them. Maybe you haven't .. and thats good.
I hope your good luck continues.

But when you stick your neck out for something, you make enemies .. and I
have my fair share of mine.. and I suspect that many here have their too
(.. and when I think about it, they're prolly the same guys.. )

If I had it my way, I'd have all email sent to me encrypted. Next to
nothing, I'll take signed messages any day.


> In a message dated 98-03-19 07:25:54 EST, whgiii@invweb.net writes:
>  -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
...
...
>  -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >>

My keys can be had off of my home page (my rsa 2048 and dh 4096 can be
had off of my hard drive if I am online, else use the 1024 bit RSA key
stored on my provider). PGP encrypted mail more than welcome.

Michael J. Graffam (mgraffam@mhv.net)
http://www.mhv.net/~mgraffam -- Philosophy, Religion, Computers, Crypto, etc
I think that we should be men first, and subjects afterward. It is not
desirable to cultivate a respect for the law, so much as for the right.
				Henry David Thoreau "Civil Disobedience"

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0i for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv

iQCVAwUBNRGnBQKEiLNUxnAfAQFpTwP+OawQiYahkwovIJaSwmX2xnnYLwbsTD7n
yn8m0X+F/fnbLo5e4qBJTUBBftzC/8PGOKhlQsNpum27kEFpPLvnITPf475uwuH/
9LlLgg7XVrUsvwFJ6N7cECTO5ZKrZNfF8oDezTtHUmvKQqb2CH/ZuGcjsilnF2MJ
5JgGEhI6CGA=
=l+1p
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: mgraffam@mhv.net
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 15:29:59 -0800 (PST)
To: StanSquncr 
Subject: Re: UPSs
In-Reply-To: <7341d3ab.3511906d@aol.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On Thu, 19 Mar 1998, StanSquncr wrote:

> In a message dated 98-03-19 05:36:18 EST, jkwilli2@unity.ncsu.edu writes:
> 
> << How many times have you been struck by lightning, Stan?  The effects are
>  showing...  >>
> 
> That, my fellow cypherpunks, was known as a 'ad hominem' attack (an attack on
> (supposed) character, because Ken Williams is too STUPID (after all, he's a
> "Know-nothing") to be able to attack what I've said.)

Actually, I believe it was because what you said was too stupid to be
attacked.. no offense.

The thread was about TEMPEST-related EMR. .. and your quote in question
was:

>BUT, even the fastest electronics cannot respond fast enough to the initial
>spike, if that spike is too high in the first place (if your incoming power
>lines get hit by lightning, for instance), it's already too late.  My
>suggestion, don't trust a UPS to eliminate spikes, get it if you
> anticipate a need for back-up power to shut down your system in case of
> black-out (and screw the surge protectors, trust the filtering in your
> power supply to do that for you.)

See.. now.. you're clearly talking about power protection.. but, you see
we _weren't_ talking about power outages, we were talking about
compromising emanations being sent through power lines.. and as far
as the UPS goes, whether or not a UPS would help such muffle such
emanations.

Two completely different things. You may as well have said "Yeah, UPS is
great. They have good rates on ground shipping."

In which case the response of..

> << How many times have you been struck by lightning, Stan?  The effects
> are showing...  >>

..might well be appropriate.

Michael J. Graffam (mgraffam@mhv.net)
http://www.mhv.net/~mgraffam -- Philosophy, Religion, Computers, Crypto, etc
I think that we should be men first, and subjects afterward. It is not
desirable to cultivate a respect for the law, so much as for the right.
				Henry David Thoreau "Civil Disobedience"

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0i for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv

iQCVAwUBNRGo0wKEiLNUxnAfAQHdjAP/QZALkfNwMGXqtoJLSdhhisAclmfDJiON
P0WCSLG2fKhIAs3U54nIFEv/jxootQNZAHEG+/0xfw7NxhuBnphpAyIJ73qpUmee
9xdK7JcjcIgAwRAdbg9dBuWdMs+aIJFIS/ijMffbEy79EHGLvRV4LLRrV5m3A46k
DxqIjpQKzZM=
=y8Q+
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 18:12:41 -0800 (PST)
To: gnu@toad.com>
Subject: Wayne Madsen
Message-ID: <3511CFDD.42E@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Thursday 3/19/98 6:58 PM

John Young
J Orlin Grabbe
John Gilmore

Here are my notes

  Thursday December 29, 1994 16:45 File MAD1.TXT 

  Memorandum of Record

  At 16:30 I received a call from a

	Wayne Madsen
	3911 Fairfax Square
	Fairfax, VA 22031
	703-876-3081
	        3065 FAX
	wmadsen@explorer.csc.com

  Wayne told me he had a contract to update the Puzzle Palace
  first written by James Bamford.  The contract is with Penguin-
  Viking.  We talked close to 45 minutes.

  Wayne told he saw my name in Wirbel's EE Times articles.

  I gave Madsen some information about my case and where documents 
  can be obtained in the WDC area.

  Madsen told me two disturbing items:

  1	NSA has been inviting White House staff to NSA.   NSA 
	attempts to impress staff with NSA gadgets.

  2	NSA recently invited Tom Clancy to NSA.  Clancy's next novel
	will be about NSA.  Clancy, Wayne told, me is being used as a 
	PR man to obtain more funding for NSA.  

  Madsen also told me that a CRYPTO-AG salesman also got arrested by the
  Iranians for selling them crypto devices which also sent out the key!
  NSA work: called Red Threads or Hidden Threads.

  But let us be a little suspicious.  NSA is fairly good at dirty
  tricks.

  1	Anyone know Madsen?
  2	Is Madsen for real?

  If Madsen is for real, then let us help him with his book.

Madsen recently wrote

  http://caq.com/CAQ/caq63/caq63madsen.html

A former spook did a drive-by of 

        3911 Fairfax Square
	Fairfax, VA 22031

shortly after the phone call from Madsen

The former spook phoned me  again on 07:29 3/16/1998.

The spook did a technical evaluation of the above address.

How may tricycles, cars, shades pulled-down to see if the address 
was possibly a home address.

The spook concluded that the above address may be a 
business.

Let's all, of course, hope for settlement.

bill






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ulf@fitug.de (Ulf =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=F6ller?=)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 12:01:00 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: G8 action plan on online anonymity?
Message-ID: <9803191909.AA49210@public.uni-hamburg.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Apparently restrictions on online anonymity have been discussed at
the meeting of the Justice and Interior Ministers of the G8 in
Washington, Dec 8--12, 1997 on "high-tech and organized crime".

>From Janet Reno's press release : "each nation
has committed to develop faster ways to trace attacks coming through
computer networks, so that we can quickly identify the hacker or
criminal who is responsible."

What are these fast ways to trace attacks? Did the ministers also
discuss anonymous speech?

Anyone have the full text of the declaration and the action plan?





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: TruthMongrel 
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 18:33:32 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: G8 action plan on online anonymity?
In-Reply-To: <9803191909.AA49210@public.uni-hamburg.de>
Message-ID: <3511D0F1.23A@dev.null>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Ulf Möller wrote:
> >From Janet Reno's press release  http://www.usdoj.dov/opa/pr/1997/December97/518cr.html>: "each nation
> has committed to develop faster ways to trace attacks coming through
> computer networks, so that we can quickly identify the hacker or
> criminal who is responsible."

Remo also gave an ultimatum to InterNet FreehDumb Fighters, while
banging her shoe on the table, "Fuck with us, and we will *bury*
you!"
Talk quickly turned to discusion of how to best stop the leaks
coming from a wide variety of government agencies which spilled
the beans to the citizens about the kinds of nefarious activities
that their government is *really* engaged in.
"If these scum are allowed to circumvent the cloud of secrecy that
we have thrown over our actions, then National Political Criminal
Security will be endangered." Remo stated.
Those gathered lifted the glasses of free liquor provided by Capital
Hill lobbyists, hollering, "I'll drink to that."

Where'sMine?Monger






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: TruthMongrel 
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 18:33:38 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: [Fwd: Re: PROGRAMMERS WANTED !!!]
Message-ID: <3511D4FA.6627@dev.null>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

It never fails to amaze me that a person can send a letter to a 
politician telling them that they should shove a crowbar up a child's
ass on primetime TV, and get back a reply stating that their opinion
is important to the recipient.

Once technology is further advanced, I am certain that we can look
forward to receiving replies from world leaders which begin with,
"Thank you for the DEATH THREAT!!!"

ButAreYouReallySincereMonger?


To: toto@sk.sympatico.ca
Subject: Re: PROGRAMMERS WANTED !!!
From: Senator_McCain@mccain.senate.gov (Senator McCain)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 01:51:18 -0500

                                                *Automated response*
     
     Dear Friend:  
     
     Thank you for taking the time to contact my office.  Your views and 
     opinions are important to me.
     
     Due to the high volume of Internet requests that I receive daily, I am 
     unable to provide you with an immediate response.  However, if you have 
     included a current mailing address and phone number, you will receive a    
     response by phone or via the U.S. Postal Service.  If you did not include a
     mailing address and would like to receive a response, please feel free to  
     'reply' to this email, attach a copy of your original message, and be sure 
     to include your postal address and phone number.
     
     Additionally, due to provisions of the Privacy Act of 1974, all federal 
     agencies are prohibited from releasing any information regarding an 
     individual without that individual's written consent.  This protection 
     means that if you are requesting my assistance with a particular agency 
     or casework of any kind, I am unable to help until I have something in 
     writing, complete with signature, from the person concerned to show 
     that I am authorized to check into the matter. Unfortunately, email 
     does not meet this requirement.    
     
     I regret any inconvenience that this delay in corresponding may cause. 
     Again, thank you for contacting my office.  
     
     
     Sincerely,
     
     John McCain
     U.S. Senator
     





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ian Briggs 
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 20:45:14 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Fucking Sheeple / Re: Does Spamming Really Exist?
In-Reply-To: <3512E780.5FBD@dev.null>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980319203802.0095e384@deepwell.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


>I will petition the government to pass laws to prevent your ISP 
>from spamming me with posts such as this, which reflect nothing
>more than the standard Sheeple position that anything which you 
>do not personally desire should be outlawed.
>
>"That which is not permitted, is forbidden."
>~ Animal Farm


Whine Whine Whine.
You want some cheeze?

Sweaping generality, yes those of us that want everything we don't agree
with put
under penalty of death.

Instantly.

No, wait.  Lets change that, we put those that don't agree with us on work
projects for the 4th Reich.

Yeah, thats what I really meant
but you have to look really hard into the message to find that undertone
or you have to be a shitneck.

Anyways.

1.  Its theft of services because its using my bandwidth to "harrass" my
customers.
2.  It may destroy my mail server.
3.  It may detrimentally effect the quality of my business.
4.  It destroys other ISP mail server.

So back to your normal ranting, as I doubt anyone doesn't have an
entrenched opinion concerning this.

Im not the happiest person to be inviting the U.S. Goverment into this
media, im pretty opposed to the U.S. Goverment in general and specific terms.

You want to know who we currently call for situations like this?
FBI, executive order gave them all venue over crimes on the Internet via an
executive order.

So guess what, the U.S. goverments already here.
I just don't want Joe Smoooze Dick the Marketing stud starting up his
garage business selling e-mail lists for $99, cause he can.

Ian

by the way, putting @dev.null in your return address
thats pretty tricky, I bet you have a business card
that says 31337.  I bet they teach that in all canadian
schools.  Elite 101.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: m6RU9k9pF@edw1hit.com
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 22:33:11 -0800 (PST)
To: ndia@wnxt.it
Subject: NDIA's 24th Environmental Symposium & Exhibition
Message-ID: <3jAeNh12OTUwd1UR5>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


PLEASE JOIN US AT
NDIA's 24th Environmental Symposium & Exhibition
"Smart Business Practices for Mission Readiness and Environmental
Sustainability"
April 6-9, 1998
Tampa Convention Center
Tampa, FL

Speakers Include:
Ms. Sherri Goodman
Deputy Under Secretary of Defense, Environmental Security
and
The Honorable Jacques Gansler
Under Secretary of Defense, Acquisition & Technology

This meeting provides a national forum for the free exchange of
environmentally related policies, programs, related technical
information and ideas from individuals, educational institutions,
professional associations and societies, representatives of private
companies and corporations and officials of Federal and State government
agencies and regulatory bodies.

You will also have the opportunity to attend Air Force Industry Day on
Wednesday, April 8th.  This is definitely a "can't miss" event!

Exhibit space is still available!  Please mailto:ckline@ndia.org for
more information and a current floorplan.

To view the complete agenda and hotel information, please visit our web
page at http://www.ndia.org/events/brochure/844/844.htm

We hope to see you in sunny Tampa, FL!!





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: millions5@juno.com
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 19:43:24 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: Millionaire in six months
Message-ID: <258161_44888744>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




LOCAL MILLIONAIRE  Willing  to  teach  5  men
or  women proven  method for becoming a millionaire in six
months. No experience necessary - However, applicant must
have strong reason for becoming rich.

Call  24 Hrs.  888-355-6909  or  714-951-3066

http://www.freeyellow.com/members2/mlmbabes/
Email:  Million4UNME@juno.com



To be removed from All mailings, reply with "remove"
in the subject line.  Thanks




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "David E. Smith" 
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 17:19:37 -0800 (PST)
To: Declan McCullagh 
Subject: Re: Will New Sendmail Block Remailers?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Thu, 19 Mar 1998, Declan McCullagh wrote:

> So I'm told that the new version of sendmail (8.9) has the same antispam
> features as 8.8  -- only difference is in defaults. True?

The closest to a noticeable change I've spotted is that the simple
anti-relaying rules (check_rcpt) are now part of the sendmail.cf by
default. (No longer do they have to be downloaded separately and hacked in
by hand.)  There are more complex anti-relaying configurations that can be
specified now, also (for permitting certain parties/domains to relay, or
to only restrict certain groups from relaying).

In other words, not much has changed.

dave


----- David E. Smith, P O Box 324, Cape Girardeau MO 63702
http://bureau42.base.org/people/dave/ dave@bureau42.ml.org

Random IRC Quote:
[topic(#linux)] New MS motto: "Gehirnwesche die Kinder, wenn sie jung
  sind.  In ihren Erwachsensein sind sie Ihre bereiten Sklaven. [TM]"
  (Brainwash the children.  When they are adults they will be your slaves)
topic set by Bascule [Sat Jan 24 05:57:42 1998]





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: op319@juno.com
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 18:04:33 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: Make 6 Figure Income Working In Your Pajamas !!
Message-ID: <77940725_18189>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




 Make 6 Figure Income Working In Your Pajamas !!

Each day I get out of bed, brush my teeth and walk into 
the next room to begin my work day..... Still in my PJs! 

And who am I working with, you ask. 
  
Well, my strategic partners are major corporations like:

   Netscape
   UUNet
   Oracle
   Sun Microsystems
   Worldcom (soon to be the 2nd largest phone 
             company after merging with MCI)
   Sprint Cellular
       ....Incredible names in the communications industry!!

The products and services from these corporations, which include Internet 
services, telecommunications services and unified messaging services, are 
targeted to the consumer, small office and home office (SOHO) markets.  
And there is even more coming in the next few months!

And NO, it does not cost the king's ransom to sign up.   How about $25?!!!

Want more info?   Reply with PAJAMAS in the subject.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: dc@panix.com (David W. Crawford)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 00:24:55 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: NETA & exporting PGP
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



March 20, 1998


        Export Law Tested by Sale of Privacy Software

        SAN FRANCISCO -- An American maker of
        data-scrambling software said Thursday that it would
        circumvent U.S. export policies by allowing its Dutch
        subsidiary to begin selling an international version of Pretty
        Good Privacy, a strong encryption program that does not
        provide a back door for law enforcement surveillance. 

        Because the company, Network Associates, is the nation's
        largest independent maker of computer security software, its
        action could have a serious effect on U.S. export policies on
        software. 

        Network Associates' decision to sell a program specifically
        prohibited by the Commerce Department comes at a time when
        the Clinton administration is already fighting congressional
        attempts to end export controls on encryption software for fear
        that such restrictions will hurt the ability of American industry
        to compete internationally. 

        [...]


http://www.nytimes.com/library/tech/yr/mo/biztech/articles/20encrypt.html

David W. Crawford    
Los Gatos, CA       

ps
If there is an addres preferred to cypherpunks@toad.com, let me know.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 18:38:41 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Make 6 Figure Income Working In Your Pajamas !!
Message-ID: <199803200238.DAA24210@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


op319@juno.com wrote:
> 
>  Make 6 Figure Income Working In Your Pajamas !!

I had a girlfriend who used to do that...does that make me a pimp?





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: newsdirectories@juno.com
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 23:56:24 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: Powerful New Advertising Software
Message-ID: <17177016_47687087>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



POWERFUL NEW ADVERTISING SOFTWARE!                 

  When Advertising on the Internet , Just Isn't  Enough.

        Introducing NATIONWIDE NEWSPAPERS!

              An Electronic Directory of Over 3,600 Papers!

               Includes Statewide & Group Network Associations.

              Pricing, Circulation, Discounted Rates, Phone Numbers, & More!

        List Includes Dailies, Weeklies, Shoppers, Community Papers & More! 

  Save Time & Money, 1 Call, 1 Payment & You're in 100's of Papers!

   
For More Information, Reply ASAP To: 







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ? the Platypus {aka David Formosa} 
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 13:58:22 -0800 (PST)
To: StanSquncr 
Subject: Re: Chicken "anons" and "nobody's"
In-Reply-To: <31b0872b.3511906c@aol.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Thu, 19 Mar 1998, StanSquncr wrote:

> In a message dated 98-03-19 05:11:50 EST, jkwilli2@unity.ncsu.edu writes:
> 
> << Well, Stan, all of the news you read ultimately comes from the one person
>  selected by Clinton to drive The Propoganda Machine up in Washington, DC. >>
> 
> And what planet do you live on?

Yar, everybody knows that it is Rupid Murdoc who runs all the news.

Please excuse my spelling as I suffer from agraphia see the url in my header. 
Never trust a country with more peaple then sheep. 
Support NoCeM http://www.cm.org/                   
I'm sorry but I just don't consider 'because its yucky' a convincing argument





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Pearson Shane 
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 15:49:37 -0800 (PST)
To: "'StanSquncr'" 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hi Stan,

A simple low pass filter made of 2 large inductors and a
few high voltage capacitors will do the trick nicely.
Which is not a slow reacting device being passive.
Combine this with polyswitch style protection and some method
of discharging a really high voltage to ground and it'll be
even better.

A very cheap design that should be in all UPS's.
And is certainly a whole lot better than nothing at all
for removing harzardous spikes, etc.


> -----Original Message-----
> From:	StanSquncr [SMTP:StanSquncr@aol.com]
> Sent:	Thursday, March 19, 1998 4:59 PM
> To:	spectre@anthrax.net; cypherpunks@toad.com
> Subject:	Re: UPSs
> 
> In a message dated 98-03-18 23:54:33 EST, spectre@anthrax.net writes:
> 
> << ... Any decent ups will put the incoming power
>  through a "conditioner" that will filter out noise in the incoming
> power,
>  and rebuild the wave so that transient sags and spikes don't get
> through. ...
> >>
> 
> BUT, even the fastest electronics cannot respond fast enough to the
> initial
> spike, if that spike is too high in the first place (if your incoming
> power
> lines get hit by lightning, for instance), it's already too late.  My
> suggestion, don't trust a UPS to eliminate spikes, get it if you
> anticipate a
> need for back-up power to shut down your system in case of black-out
> (and
> screw the surge protectors, trust the filtering in your power supply
> to do
> that for you.)
> 
> Stan




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tryit 
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 09:56:28 -0800 (PST)
To: "'cypherpunks@toad.com>
Subject: WS_FTP Pro 5.0 from Ipswitch, Inc. Now Available!
Message-ID: <01C29E4A0C4BD111B1540060979D31222DE7E5@download.ipswitch.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Dear Joe:

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****************************************************
P.S.  This message is intended as a service to Ipswitch customers and
visitors to our Web site.  To be removed from any future mailings please
reply with DELETE in the subject line. 
-----------------------------------------
Ipswitch, Inc.
81 Hartwell Ave.
Lexington, MA 02173
Phone: (781) 676-5700
Fax:  (781) 676-5710

Web:     http://www.ipswitch.com
E-mail:  sales@ipswitch.com


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: rdew@el.nec.com (Bob De Witt)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 13:09:10 -0800 (PST)
To: StanSquncr@aol.com
Subject: Re: UPSs
Message-ID: <199803202103.NAA06318@yginsburg.el.nec.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


All,

I cannot remember all of the equations that go into this, and only a very
simplistic approach follows, but ...

If your surge protector is a semi-conductor, it probably will be 
self-limiting.  That is, it will reach a maximum block, and pass
whatever is above that.  A Trans-sorb device, and those chemical ones, 
all limit what they do based upon a total absorption.  A lot of little
ones kills it the same as a single big one.  None of these tell you 
they are no longer operable.

However, if the UPS is properly built, it will have an inductor as the
leading serial device in a set of 'things'.  I would expect a set of
capacitors, in parallel with my load, on either side, appropriately 
sized.  The battery that makes the 'U' in the UPS acts like another
capacitor.  These act as fast as the spike, ALWAYS.  The sizes and number
of components requires some calculations (testing does NOT hurt, either).

Stan needs to review his basic electronics.  Yes, it will even protect
against lighting if designed for that purpose.  Costs vary accordingly ...

Bob De Witt,
rdew@el.nec.com
The views expressed herein are my own,
and are not attributable to any other
source, be it employer, friend or foe.


> From StanSquncr@aol.com Wed Mar 18 22:44:02 1998
> From: StanSquncr 
> Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 00:59:19 EST
> To: spectre@anthrax.net, cypherpunks@toad.com
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Subject: Re: UPSs
> Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
> 
> In a message dated 98-03-18 23:54:33 EST, spectre@anthrax.net writes:
> 
> << ... Any decent ups will put the incoming power
>  through a "conditioner" that will filter out noise in the incoming power,
>  and rebuild the wave so that transient sags and spikes don't get through. ...
> >>
> 
> BUT, even the fastest electronics cannot respond fast enough to the initial
> spike, if that spike is too high in the first place (if your incoming power
> lines get hit by lightning, for instance), it's already too late.  My
> suggestion, don't trust a UPS to eliminate spikes, get it if you anticipate a
> need for back-up power to shut down your system in case of black-out (and
> screw the surge protectors, trust the filtering in your power supply to do
> that for you.)
> 
> Stan
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Dave Emery 
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 10:14:58 -0800 (PST)
To: Mike Rosing 
Subject: Re: reference
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <19980320131536.57966@die.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Thu, Mar 19, 1998 at 11:00:02PM -0600, Mike Rosing wrote:
> Cryptography is a weapon.  With a wire wrap tool, you too can create
> weapons of mass destruction using nothing but untracable legal parts.  
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


	I'll bite, how ?   Crypto is not a destructive weapon - it may
blind the opponent, perhaps even sometimes at critical times when that
can induce him to behave dangerously - but I fail to see how a cipher in
and of itself is a weapon of destruction, let alone mass destruction.  I
see crypto as an entirely defensive weapon with no potential to destroy
anything (except perhaps data when the key gets lost or forgotten).

	Of course you may be refering to other things one can put
together with a wirewrap tool - which isn't really the tool one would
want to assemble HERF or HPM destructive weapons with in any case
since wirewrap wire can barely handle an amp or so max...
	

	

> 
> Patience, persistence, truth,
> Dr. mike
> 

-- 
	Dave Emery N1PRE,  die@die.com  DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass. 
PGP fingerprint = 2047/4D7B08D1 DE 6E E1 CC 1F 1D 96 E2  5D 27 BD B0 24 88 C3 18





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mike Rosing 
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 11:46:35 -0800 (PST)
To: Dave Emery 
Subject: Re: reference
In-Reply-To: <19980320131536.57966@die.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Fri, 20 Mar 1998, Dave Emery wrote:

> 	I'll bite, how ?   Crypto is not a destructive weapon - it may
> blind the opponent, perhaps even sometimes at critical times when that
> can induce him to behave dangerously - but I fail to see how a cipher in
> and of itself is a weapon of destruction, let alone mass destruction.  I
> see crypto as an entirely defensive weapon with no potential to destroy
> anything (except perhaps data when the key gets lost or forgotten).

By government fiat, not by reality.  Crypto is *classified* as a weapon,
so you stick a processor in a box with a keypad and scramble inputs to
outputs and you have a device which is on the munitions list along with
tanks and jet fighters.  Pistols and rifles aren't weapons of mass
destruction so they aren't on the munitions list, but crypto is.  So, by
fiat, it is a "weapon of mass destruction".

it's Sarcasim dude, and points out how stupid the law can be.  I'll take a
battery operated wire wrap tool, but even a hand job and candle light will
do.

As for the high explosives, processors are good at timing.  You can build
a pretty cheap detonator with some fancy properties using a $10 processor
chip.  With a couple of transistors you'll get more than enough current
to do the job, the wires won't be connected that long :-)

Patience, persistence, truth,
Dr. mike






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: TruthMonger 
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 12:28:15 -0800 (PST)
To: Yupin Mungdee 
Subject: Does Spamming Really Exist? / Re: Will New Sendmail Block Remailers?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3512E780.5FBD@dev.null>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Yupin Mungdee wrote:
> 
> Another possible "ultimate end" for the spammer wars would be making
> spamming illegal, like fax spamming, and having the cops hunting down the
> spammers. But that can be defeated with truly anonymous markets, still
> assuming that encryption will be legal.

Spamming is an 'imaginary' felony, as are anonymity and encryption.

The only real crime taking place on the InterNet is the marriage of
an underage technology to a polygamous pen full of Sheeple whose
dowry consists of an evolutionary heritage of worshipping whatever
it is that they don't understand and following the Ram(it up your
ass) with the biggest horns and the loudest bleat.

> To really beat spamming we probably need filters that only allow messages
> from inside our web of trust. Don't you agree?

Complaining about 'spamming' is the equivalent of going to a Reservation
and complaining that "there's too damn many Indians" around.

"Doctor, it hurts when I do *this*..."
	"Then don't do *that*!"

I don't post under my own name on USENET for a simple reason. When I do,
I get mountains of spam.
I do subscribe to cypherpunks through an unfilted toad.com and I get a
few niggling spams a day that merely serve to remind me that the
'spammers'
are out there, laying in wait.

I don't live in Los Angelos for a simple reason. Within the first week
of
driving in traffic there, I would take out an Uzi and start blowing the
other drivers away at random.
I do make occassional forays into large cities such as LA and Phoenix
when
I want/need to do business or pleasure there, but when merely passing
through, I do so at 4 a.m., in order to avoid the 'road spam'.

The WorldWide Web is just that...a 'web'. If you want to traverse every
part of it, just 'surfing' without using any kind of judgement or
discrimination, then you can expect to get 'stuck' with whatever kind
of substance is being used by those constructing that particular part
of the web.
When I go into the part of the web that John Perry has thrown his
Net over and marked as his territory, my gut-reaction is to think of
him as a dickhead, Nazi censor. Realistically, this would be true
if he trod over to my few strands of webspace and tried to rule over
it, but my willfully traversing into his domain and whining about
how he acts within it is nothing more than egoism.
Those who choose to participate with John Perry in the construction
and maintenance of the web of trust/competency that he is involved
in have certain expectations of free communications versus limitations
of speech and action. Those who choose to participate in the 
construction/destruction of the CypherPunks lists can expect to be
barraged by all manner of sanity/insanity, and to have to judge the 
value of the list for themselves in deciding whether to stay or to 
leave. (Relying on the CypherPunks Complaint Department to 'solve'
this or that 'problem' is not a viable option.)

"Doctor, I get 'spammed' when I go there..."
	"Then don't go there..."

OldDocMonger





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Ross Wright" 
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 14:58:30 -0800 (PST)
To: David Scheidt 
Subject: Re: Does Spamming Really Exist? / Re: Will New Sendmail Blo
Message-ID: <199803202258.OAA09440@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


David:

Blah blah blah, theft of services, blah, oh mr. government: please 
deliver us from spam, blah, blah, blah.  TruthMonger wrote one on the 
best pieces on spam, and you come up with the same old SHIT!  Just 
because you repeat "theft of services" won't make it true.  Blah 
blah, make spammers pay blah blah.  Shut up, and hit delete!  You 
fucktard.

Spam is not crime, it is commerce!

On or About 20 Mar 98 at 17:06, David Scheidt wrote:

> On Fri, 20 Mar 1998, TruthMonger wrote:
> 
> > Spamming is an 'imaginary' felony, as are anonymity and
> > encryption.
> 
> Spamming is theft of services, sir.  I am forced to pay for a
> "service" that I did not request.  I, and everyone else, pays for
> spam either directly in connect time, or because my ISP wastes
> bandwidth handling the stuff.  I am not that much bothered by that
> it is advertising, or pure junk, but that I pay for it.
> 
> > > To really beat spamming we probably need filters that only allow
> > > messages from inside our web of trust. Don't you agree?
> 
> Make people bear the true cost of spam, and it will stop.
> 

=-=-=-=-=-=-
Ross Wright
King Media: Bulk Sales of Software Media and Duplication Services
http://ross.adnetsol.com
Voice: (408) 259-2795




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Ross Wright" 
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 15:10:45 -0800 (PST)
To: David Scheidt 
Subject: Re: Does Spamming Really Exist? / Re: Will New Sendmail Blo
Message-ID: <199803202310.PAA09594@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On or About 20 Mar 98 at 18:05, David Scheidt wrote:

> On Fri, 20 Mar 1998, Ross Wright wrote:
> 
> > Spam is not crime, it is commerce!
> 
> Spam is commerce with the costs borne by the wrong party.  

Blah blah blah.  I'm bored with this SHIT.  Blah blah blah.  

Like the TruthMonger said, you roll around on the floor with the
dogs, you gonna get licked on the mouth.  

Spam is a fact of life, and complaining about it is far worse than
spam.  Again, I say:  hit your delete key and shut up, you fucktard.

Thanks.

=-=-=-=-=-=-
Ross Wright
King Media: Bulk Sales of Software Media and Duplication Services
http://ross.adnetsol.com
Voice: (408) 259-2795




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Ross Wright" 
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 15:26:21 -0800 (PST)
To: Ian Briggs 
Subject: Complaints about spam are TRUE theft of services
Message-ID: <199803202326.PAA09734@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On or About 19 Mar 98 at 14:27, Ian Briggs wrote:

> >> Spamming is an 'imaginary' felony, as are anonymity and
> >> encryption.
> 
> No, its actually theft of services.  

No, actually your complaints about spam are TRUE theft of 
services.  In an article that I posted to this list last year it says 
the following:

Mailing-list spammers

Email spam is the favorite gripe of most Netizens, excepting the
spammers. Congress is considering legislation [25] to limit the
practice of sending unwanted commercial email in bulk. Not everyone
thinks this is a good idea. See [26] for a thread from an ongoing
debate on Declan McCullagh's fight-censorship mailing list. George
Matyjewicz  did a modest experiment
on a week's worth of his email -- he is on 56 mailing lists and gets
around 200 messages a day -- to gauge how widespread the problem
actually is. Matyjewicz posted these results: 

Total messages...1,354...193.4

Spam messages.......10.......1.4.....< 1 %

Spam complaints....189.......27.0.....14 %

This article is at:

http://206.215.211.222/archive/0108.html

Spam is not crime, it's commerce.  Shut up and hit that delete key, 
you fucktard.

Thanks.

=-=-=-=-=-=-
Ross Wright
King Media: Bulk Sales of Software Media and Duplication Services
http://ross.adnetsol.com
Voice: (408) 259-2795




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Ross Wright" 
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 15:43:20 -0800 (PST)
To: Ian Briggs 
Subject: Re: Complaints about spam are TRUE theft of services
Message-ID: <199803202343.PAA09849@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On or About 19 Mar 98 at 15:31, Ian Briggs wrote:

> >Spam is not crime, it's commerce.  Shut up and hit that delete key,
> > you fucktard.
> 
> Its not commerce, its collect calls and fuck you.  Fax bombing is
> illegal.
> 
> Unsolicitated e-mail of this nature will eventually also be.

Is that *really* what you want?

>> Not because its "dangerous" to the internet, there are a lot more
> dangerous issues facing todays Internet, because organized ISP have
> enough power to tell cluless lawmakers it is.

Again, I ask: "Is that *REALLY* what you want?"  You want stupid 
congressmen and women to make new laws about spam???  Are you nuts?

*Really*, you want them sticking their small minds into the internet? 
*REALLY*??????

You and all your "organized ISP" brothers should just shut up and hit 
the delete keys, you bunch of fucktards.

Thanks.

=-=-=-=-=-=-
Ross Wright
King Media: Bulk Sales of Software Media and Duplication Services
http://ross.adnetsol.com
Voice: (408) 259-2795




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: The Spectre 
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 13:23:58 -0800 (PST)
To: StanSquncr@aol.com
Subject: Re: UPSs (yeah, it's off topic)
In-Reply-To: <199803202103.NAA06318@yginsburg.el.nec.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 16:03 3/20/98 , Bob De Witt wrote:

>Stan needs to review his basic electronics.  Yes, it will even protect
>against lighting if designed for that purpose.  Costs vary accordingly ...

I think stan just confused UPS's with power strips.

most of them don't have a switching time fast enough to stop lightning.


-The Spectre [SP4 w/ clam cluster]
-http://www.anthrax.net/cos
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher
esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
		-- Neitzsche, _The_Dawn_
PGP key available from servers.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 18:07:37 -0800 (PST)
To: Ian Briggs 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980320164218.008e1b20@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


>>> Spamming is an 'imaginary' felony, as are anonymity and encryption.
>No, its actually theft of services.  

Generally, it's neither one, but it is a rude imposition on
the reader's attention, and may also increase costs to the user
or the user's service provider.

So what's an anarchist like me doing saying that the government can help?
Well, they can help by getting out of the way.  
Currently, there are laws against breaking into computer systems
and against denial of service attacks; they can be Federal felonies.

As a modest proposal, I would suggest that the government allow
anyone who's been sent unwanted bits by a spammer to send
any unwanted bits they feel like in return.
Maybe Spamford doesn't want chain letters about
	"Make Pings Of Death Fast"
or	"Free Live Chat With Real Spammers!"
but spammers really aren't in any position to complain.


----------------
There's also 
http://www.iks-jena.de/mitarb/lutz/usenet/teergrube.en.html

				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSquncr 
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 13:52:38 -0800 (PST)
To: n9505834@garbo.nepean.uws.edu.au
Subject: Re: Chicken "anons" and "nobody's"
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


In a message dated 98-03-19 16:58:32 EST, n9505834@garbo.nepean.uws.edu.au
writes:

<< > << Well, Stan, all of the news you read ultimately comes from the one
person
 >  selected by Clinton to drive The Propoganda Machine up in Washington, DC.
>>
 > 
 > And what planet do you live on?
 
 Yar, everybody knows that it is Rupid Murdoc who runs all the news. >>

Well, he runs a large part of the 'show' (Fox news (which has on all the
Republican't favorites on sundays)).

Stan




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSquncr 
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 13:52:07 -0800 (PST)
To: mgraffam@mhv.net
Subject: Re: A little Paranoid, William?
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


In a message dated 98-03-19 18:21:57 EST, mgraffam@mhv.net writes:

<< I've heard it said 'Paranoia is reality on a finer scale.'
 
 I believe it.
 
 If you think that signing messages is paranoia, you may be right.. I,
 for one, _am_ paranoid. I know the practical attacks that can be made,
 and I've seen them work and, and demonstrated how easy they are.
 Worse, I've experienced them. Maybe you haven't .. and thats good.
 I hope your good luck continues. >>

Actually, my presence here amongst the cypherpunks is a direct RESULT of one
of those attacks.  But I can deal with it without getting paranoid.

And you might be correct about paranoia and reality.

Stan




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSquncr 
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 13:51:50 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: UPSs
Message-ID: <9300db85.3512e4bd@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


In a message dated 98-03-19 18:48:51 EST, Shane.Pearson@tafensw.edu.au writes:

<< A simple low pass filter made of 2 large inductors and a
 few high voltage capacitors will do the trick nicely. >>

Right.  The filtering that's already in the power-supply (except that the
switching transformer isn't as big as an inductor as a normal old-style power
transformer.

Stan




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSquncr 
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 13:52:40 -0800 (PST)
To: mgraffam@mhv.net
Subject: Re: UPSs
Message-ID: <76f6bc68.3512e4bd@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


In a message dated 98-03-19 18:29:55 EST, mgraffam@mhv.net writes:

<< >BUT, even the fastest electronics cannot respond fast enough to the
initial
 >spike, if that spike is too high in the first place (if your incoming power
 >lines get hit by lightning, for instance), it's already too late.  My
 >suggestion, don't trust a UPS to eliminate spikes, get it if you
 > anticipate a need for back-up power to shut down your system in case of
 > black-out (and screw the surge protectors, trust the filtering in your
 > power supply to do that for you.)
 
 See.. now.. you're clearly talking about power protection.. but, you see
 we _weren't_ talking about power outages, we were talking about
 compromising emanations being sent through power lines.. and as far
 as the UPS goes, whether or not a UPS would help such muffle such
 emanations. >>

Right.  That's why I pointed out that you shouldn't use a UPS and expect it to
prevent large surges (such as the type that occurs when lightning hits your
incoming power.

So, my statement was NOT stupid, your attack on it was.  :-)

Stan




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSquncr 
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 13:52:29 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Chicken "anons" and "nobody's"
Message-ID: <51df9de8.3512e4c1@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


In a message dated 98-03-20 15:56:14 EST, nobody@REPLAY.COM writes:

<< Stan, whose mind is held hostage by the heathens at A(h)OL, >>

You idiot, AOL is with YOU (AOL is part of the 'vast right-wing conspiracy')!

See my political page.

Stan,
http://members.aol.com/StanSquncr/




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSquncr 
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 13:56:24 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: UPSs
Message-ID: <24e219e8.3512e4c1@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


In a message dated 98-03-20 16:04:24 EST, rdew@el.nec.com writes:

<< If your surge protector is a semi-conductor, it probably will be 
 self-limiting.  That is, it will reach a maximum block, and pass
 whatever is above that.  >>

Yes, but what you fail to point out, is the reason it will pass everything, it
will have been blown (shorted, most likely).

So, because you failed to point this out, I figure the rest of your response
isn't worth responding to.

Stan




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSquncr 
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 13:54:44 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: UPSs (yeah, it's off topic)
Message-ID: <10a39b7a.3512e54d@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


In a message dated 98-03-20 16:23:56 EST, spectre@anthrax.net writes:

<< At 16:03 3/20/98 , Bob De Witt wrote:
 
 >Stan needs to review his basic electronics.  Yes, it will even protect
 >against lighting if designed for that purpose.  Costs vary accordingly ...
 
 I think stan just confused UPS's with power strips. >>

Obviously, you're just confused.   :-)
 
<< PGP key available from servers. >>

So where's your PGP signiture?

Stan




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Scheidt 
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 14:06:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: Does Spamming Really Exist? / Re: Will New Sendmail Block Remailers?
In-Reply-To: <3512E780.5FBD@dev.null>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Fri, 20 Mar 1998, TruthMonger wrote:

> Spamming is an 'imaginary' felony, as are anonymity and encryption.

Spamming is theft of services, sir.  I am forced to pay for a "service"
that I did not request.  I, and everyone else, pays for spam either
directly in connect time, or because my ISP wastes bandwidth handling the
stuff.  I am not that much bothered by that it is advertising, or pure
junk, but that I pay for it.

> > To really beat spamming we probably need filters that only allow messages
> > from inside our web of trust. Don't you agree?

Make people bear the true cost of spam, and it will stop.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: The Spectre 
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 14:15:14 -0800 (PST)
To: StanSquncr 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 16:53 3/20/98 -0500, StanSquncr wrote:

>Obviously, you're just confused.   :-)

hmm?  heh.. hey, I was just trying to help you out man.. I haven't heard of
a UPS that won't protect against a lightning strike..

>So where's your PGP signiture?

I get bitched at by list members when I sign my messages.. :)  If I have
something important to say, I'll sign it.. same goes if people start faking
them, so far no one has.


-The Spectre [SP4 w/ Clam Cluster]
-http://www.anthrax.net/cos
"No man is clever enough to know all the evil he does."  -  La Rochefoucauld





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Scheidt 
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 15:05:41 -0800 (PST)
To: Ross Wright 
Subject: Re: Does Spamming Really Exist? / Re: Will New Sendmail Blo
In-Reply-To: <199803202258.RAA17285@infocom.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Fri, 20 Mar 1998, Ross Wright wrote:

> Spam is not crime, it is commerce!

Spam is commerce with the costs borne by the wrong party.  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: sphantom 
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 16:13:10 -0800 (PST)
To: StanSquncr 
Subject: Re: UPSs
In-Reply-To: <7341d3ab.3511906d@aol.com>
Message-ID: <35130631.B046F2DA@tfs.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


some protection is better than none. my roommate and I have our
computers in the same room off of the same outlet but my computer has an
UPS and his does not. During a storm, lightning hit near the apartment
building and it took out his computer but not mine. But I do have a
friend who lost his computer to a direct strike to the power lines and
it took out the surge strip as well. At least in my case, it was not a
direct strike into the power lines but what happened to my roommate made
him get an UPS to at least have some protection next time. At least he
will not have to possibly shell out another $1,500 for another computer.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Paul H. Merrill" 
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 16:06:21 -0800 (PST)
To: Ross Wright 
Subject: Re: Complaints about spam are TRUE theft of services
In-Reply-To: <199803202343.PAA09849@toad.com>
Message-ID: <35132F8D.15FF@acm.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Ross Wright wrote:
> 
> On or About 19 Mar 98 at 15:31, Ian Briggs wrote:
> 
> > >Spam is not crime, it's commerce.  Shut up and hit that delete key,
> > > you fucktard.
> >
> > Its not commerce, its collect calls and fuck you.  Fax bombing is
> > illegal.
> >
> > Unsolicitated e-mail of this nature will eventually also be.
> 
> Is that *really* what you want?
> 
> >> Not because its "dangerous" to the internet, there are a lot more
> > dangerous issues facing todays Internet, because organized ISP have
> > enough power to tell cluless lawmakers it is.
> 
> Again, I ask: "Is that *REALLY* what you want?"  You want stupid
> congressmen and women to make new laws about spam???  Are you nuts?
> 
> *Really*, you want them sticking their small minds into the internet?
> *REALLY*??????
> 
> You and all your "organized ISP" brothers should just shut up and hit
> the delete keys, you bunch of fucktards.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> =-=-=-=-=-=-
> Ross Wright
> King Media: Bulk Sales of Software Media and Duplication Services
> http://ross.adnetsol.com
> Voice: (408) 259-2795

While I do not completely agree with the tone of the comments, nor do I
buy the specific numbers involved, I have found that the mouthing off
about the terror of Spam to take more bandwidth than the (EMail) spam
itself does.  I also fear legislative involvement much more than the
spam itself.

OTOH I dislike spam intensely and do reufse to buy from a spammer --
even when they occasionally have a toy I just might want under other
circumstances.

PHM




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Spammer 
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 18:10:17 -0800 (PST)
To: paulmerrill@acm.org
Subject: New Champion! / Re: Complaints about spam are TRUE theft of services
In-Reply-To: <199803202343.PAA09849@toad.com>
Message-ID: <351331C7.1CE4@dev.null>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Paul H. Merrill wrote:
> 
> While I do not completely agree with the tone of the comments, nor do I
> buy the specific numbers involved, I have found that the mouthing off
> about the terror of Spam to take more bandwidth than the (EMail) spam
> itself does.  I also fear legislative involvement much more than the
> spam itself.

While TruthMonger's initial post, "Does Spamming Really Exist," was
obviously an attempt to lure Ross Wright out of the lair from which
he lurks, furtively monitoring the CypherPunks list, his secondary 
goal was undoubtedly to laugh up his sleeve at the posters who would
inundate the list with a quantity of yea-nay's which would vastly
exceed the amount of spam which is passed on to subscribers of the
unfiltered toad.com CypherPunks list.

A communique from TruthMonger, shortly before he transmorgatized into
his 'Spammer' persona, informed me that he felt Paul Merrill had 
earned the title of Chief Spammer SpokesPerson/Champion, despite the
heartfelt compliment that Ross Wright gave TM in one of his missives.

The concept of the spam-complainer being the true spammer on any 
given mailing list, by virtue of setting off a mountain of posts
which are in all likelyhood off-topic and meant to appeal only
to the knee-jerk reactions of jerks with knees, is completely in
line with the theory that the only posts which are truly off-topic
on the CypherPunks lists are those which complain about off-topic
posts.

There is a case currently before the Supreme Court of Canada which
is continuing, despite the original plaintiffs having settled out
of court, without government intervention, which will decide 
whether gay couples will be allowed to get butt-fucked under the
same vague, arbitrary and capricious laws as those which are
used to ruin the lives of the heterosexual citizens.

Even radical femnists have had the common sense not to petition
the government to ensure women equal representation in the gas
chambers of America.
Radical anti-spammers should take note...

Spammer






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Spammer 
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 18:09:31 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: S p a m  H a i k u  / [Repost]
Message-ID: <35133310.6F46@dev.null>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


S p a m  H a i k u :

1.
Blue can of steel
What promise do you hold?
Salt flesh so ripe

2.
Can of metal, slick
Soft center, so cool, moistening
I yearn for your salt

3.
Twist, pull the sharp lid
Jerks and cuts me deeply but
Spam, aah, my poultice

4.
Silent, former pig
One communal awareness
Myriad pink bricks

5.
Clad in metal, proud
No mere salt-curing for you
You are not bacon

6
And who dares mock Spam?
You? you? you are not worthy
Of one rich pink fleck

7.
Like some spongy rock
A granite, my piece of Spam
In sunlight on my plate

8.
Little slab of meat
In a wash of clear jelly
Now I heat the pan

9.
Oh tin of pink meat
I ponder what you may be:
Snout or ear or feet?

10.
In the cool morning
I fry up a slab of Spam
A dog barks next door

11.
Pink tender morsel
Glistening with salty gel
What the hell is it?

12.
Ears, snouts and innards
A homogeneous mass
Pass another slice

13.
Old man seeks doctor
"I eat Spam daily", he says.
Angioplasty

14.
Highly unnatural
The tortured shape of this "food"
A small pink coffin

15.
Pink beefy temptress
I can no longer remain
Vegetarian






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Paul H. Merrill" 
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 16:35:06 -0800 (PST)
To: DimVu@aol.com
Subject: My Most Abject Apologies
Message-ID: <3513364E.2938@acm.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I wish to publicly thank Bill Stewart for pointin out my spelling error
in the account I set up for DV for two reasons 1) I truly dilike anyone
mishandling my own name in print or in pronunciation and 2) a
demonstration needs to be error free or it is a Not Good Thing  (not all
the way to a Bad Thing for a typo, but enough to take a dim view of it)

In this sprirt, I unsubscribed and removed the account and replaced (and
resubscribed) it with DimVu@aol.com 

I apologize to one and all especially DV himself -- I certainly did not
wish to sully his good name thorugh misspelling.

As always,
Your Humble Servant,
Paul H. Merrill

BTW I coulda swore I sent this thing out yesterday, but since I shore
ain't seed it, I (wrote and) sent another.  (I keep no EMail.)
PHM




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bob Roberts 
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 11:41:53 -0800 (PST)
To: "cypherpunks@toad.com>
Subject: Re: reference
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3512C840.85AA5E9D@traderonline.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Dave Emery wrote:

>
>
>         I'll bite, how ?   Crypto is not a destructive weapon - it may
> blind the opponent, perhaps even sometimes at critical times when that
> can induce him to behave dangerously - but I fail to see how a cipher in
> and of itself is a weapon of destruction, let alone mass destruction.  I
> see crypto as an entirely defensive weapon with no potential to destroy
> anything (except perhaps data when the key gets lost or forgotten).

    Imagine in the new realm of white collar crime, individuals are only convicted
because of evidence.  Evidence that can't be decrypted cannot be used.  I see that
going back to defense, but on the wrong side.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Spammer 
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 18:09:40 -0800 (PST)
To: David Scheidt 
Subject: Spam-Busters versus  Spam-Protection Racket / Re: Does Spamming Really Exist?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <35133C44.5941@dev.null>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


David Scheidt wrote:
> On Fri, 20 Mar 1998, TruthMonger wrote:
> > Spamming is an 'imaginary' felony, as are anonymity and encryption.
 
> Spamming is theft of services, sir.  I am forced to pay for a "service"
> that I did not request.  I, and everyone else, pays for spam either
> directly in connect time, or because my ISP wastes bandwidth handling the
> stuff.  I am not that much bothered by that it is advertising, or pure
> junk, but that I pay for it.

The thievery is taking place at the ISP level.

I live in the boondocks where the phone company charged $5.00 per 
hour for InterNet access, until they lost their monopoly, after
which their rates magically dropped to $1.00 per hour.
My hook-up rate remains around that rate because of competing
ISP's being required to pay vigorish to the government-owned
teleco, far beyond their actual costs.

If I lived in the 'big city', then I would be able to avail myself
of the $19.95-unlimited-connection charges. Thus, any 'spam' I
received would only cost me my time and energy, as opposed to
the money that the teleco robs me of under cover of their 
government-supported monopoly.

NEWS FLASH!!!
You were born into a world where even your momma's tit competed
for your attention, time and energy.
When your mother's breast-milk dried up, did you petition the
government to have her tit imprisoned under 'Truth In Advertising'
laws? Did you demand that the government force her to refrain
from bringing her tit into your  presence, where it would compete
for your time, attention and energy?

When my mother's breast-milk dried up, I learned to reach for the
bottle (as Anheiser-Busch will gladly verify).
In all of my time on the InterNet, I have responded to and enriched
only one (count 'em, *1*) of the personages who have sent an
unsolicited email to my account. In doing so, however, I have
effectively endorsed the value (be it in an exceedingly minor way)
of those who bring their UCE/Spam to my attention.

You take the position that your ISP 'wastes bandwidth' handling
'spam'. If you are paying them to do so, without requiring that
they provide you with an option in return for the money that you
are paying them, this is not the fault of those who deem that
you may be interested in their product/cause/bullshit.
As well, since the 'spammers' are obviously receiving a response
that makes it worth their while to continue their efforts, it
is obvious that others on your ISP may not regard their missives
as wasted bandwidth.

Sometime ago, plaidworks.com complained about someone 'abusing'
their system by subscribing the CypherPunks list, among others,
to their massive mailings. The fact of the matter was, they left
their system open to being 'used' in the manner it was, in order
to gain maximum profit without going to the expense of putting 
safeguards in place which would prevent others from using the
resources they made available to the InterNet for their own
purposes.

NEWS FLASH!!!
The InterNet is a communal endeavor. Resources are shared among
those who choose to actively participate in the infrastructure
and the technologies of which it is composed.
Those who wish to participate in only a portion of the activity
and resources shared on the InterNet can do so if they are
willing to take the actions required to limit their participation
and/or exposure on the InterNet.

I do not use Gopher. The use that others make of the program is
not a 'theft of services' that 'wastes' the bandwidth of my ISP.
My ISP does not provide Telnet access. They do so in order to
prevent me from availing myself of cheaper services which are
available at ISP's which are not restrained by their monopoly
To me, *this* is 'denial of service.'

Because of the armed robbery of the government-monopoly ISP
that is available to me, it costs me an unacceptable amount of
money to go to USENET. I don't go there.

Spammer





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Spammer 
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 18:49:02 -0800 (PST)
To: Ian Briggs 
Subject: Fucking Sheeple / Re: Does Spamming Really Exist?
In-Reply-To: <3512E780.5FBD@dev.null>
Message-ID: <35134477.308E@dev.null>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Ian Briggs wrote:
> 
> >> Spamming is an 'imaginary' felony, as are anonymity and encryption.
> 
> No, its actually theft of services.
> 
> Imagine if I called you collect anytime I was out and about and your phone
> automatically accepted the charge.  Then I spent a couple minutes filling
> you in on my day, and how I felt.

Then I would be a fucking idiot for willingly giving my business to
a phone company that  would allow this.
The fact is, the only phone company available to me is a monopoly
who will no doubt institute this 'feature' because of your suggestion.
I will have them forward my bill to you...

> 1.  ISP pay for bandwidth.
>         If your outside the US 128Kbps lines can go upwards of several thousand         a
> month.

Then they should expend the time, energy and resources that will
enable them to deny the use of their commonly shared resources
with members of the InterNet community which they do not wish
to support.

> 2.  Spammers relay through other ISP mail servers.
>         This usually kills their mail server, or they get added to Paul Vixie's
> blackhole list.

The InterNet is a shared resource. If the ISP does not want to
share certain resources with this-or-that entity on the communal
resource of the Net, then they can configure their system to
deny reciprocal services to their fellow Netizens.

> 3.  It wastes ISP time.
>         ISP get dozens of complaints a day and have to explain to every newbie
> exactly what spam is, why they got it, etc. etc.

Perhaps they should spend their time configuring their systems to
allow what they feel is most useful to their customers, and tell
those who complain to go somewhere else.

> I know, im an ISP.

I will petition the government to pass laws to prevent your ISP 
from spamming me with posts such as this, which reflect nothing
more than the standard Sheeple position that anything which you 
do not personally desire should be outlawed.

"That which is not permitted, is forbidden."
~ Animal Farm

Spammer





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: The Spectre 
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 19:17:32 -0800 (PST)
To: The Spectre 
Subject: Clarification / Re: UPSs (yeah, it's off topic)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <35134BAB.272B@dev.null>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


The Spectre wrote:
> I get bitched at by list members when I sign my messages.. :)  If I have
> something important to say, I'll sign it.. same goes if people start faking
> them, so far no one has.

What I meant to say was, "if people start faking them without using
spectre@dev.null as a return address so that only really lame fucks
will be fooled by them."
 
-The Spectre (Or so I would have you believe...) [SP4 w/ Clam Cluster]
-http://www.anthrax.net/cos
"No man is clever enough to know all the evil he does."  -  La
Rochefoucauld






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 12:28:39 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Chicken "anons" and "nobody's"
Message-ID: <199803202028.VAA16207@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


William H. Geiger III wrote:
> 
> You don't have a clue do you Stan??

Stan, whose mind is held hostage by the heathens at A(h)OL, has not
yet been visited by the revemissionlutionaries of the Army of Dog,
and thus does not realize that the ClueServer died for his sins.

Thus, his body and soul are destined to boil in a big black pot
forged from the melted remains of his own kettles, and fired by
the burning ears of those he has maligned behind their backs, as
are all those who spread FUD out of cluelessness, instead of out
of a genuine desire to be a rabble-rousing shit-disturber.

CardinalBadSpellingMonger






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Paul H. Merrill" 
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 19:08:55 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: New Champion! / Re: Complaints about spam are TRUE theft ofservices
In-Reply-To: <199803202343.PAA09849@toad.com>
Message-ID: <35135970.4A181F3D@acm.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Spammer wrote:
 
> A communique from TruthMonger, shortly before he transmorgatized into
> his 'Spammer' persona, informed me that he felt Paul Merrill had
> earned the title of Chief Spammer SpokesPerson/Champion, despite the
> heartfelt compliment that Ross Wright gave TM in one of his missives.
> 
Gee, I'm touched.

PHM




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: owner-cypherpunks
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 22:26:16 -0800 (PST)
To: youanfme@aol.com
Subject: Cold Drinks Taste Better!!!
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Cold Drinks Taste Better!  (You gotta see this)
 CLICK HERE NOW!!  


CoolBird keeps your favorite beverage COLD for HOURS.  Make your last sip your coldest with CoolBird!

**Perfect for --Birthdays
                  --Father's Day
                  --picnics
                  --BBQ's
                  --Bosses
                  --Lunches
                  --Trips
                  --Work
Great for anywhere and anytime!!!!
 CLICK HERE NOW!!   






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: The Spectre 
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 19:29:48 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Faked mail from canada? (was : Clarification / Re: UPSs (yeah, it's off topic))
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 21:10 3/20/98 -0800, The Spectre (Or so he would have us believe) wrote:

>The Spectre wrote:
>> I get bitched at by list members when I sign my messages.. :)  If I have
>> something important to say, I'll sign it.. same goes if people start faking
>> them, so far no one has.
>
>What I meant to say was, "if people start faking them without using
>spectre@dev.null as a return address so that only really lame fucks
>will be fooled by them."
> 
>-The Spectre (Or so I would have you believe...) [SP4 w/ Clam Cluster]
>-http://www.anthrax.net/cos
>"No man is clever enough to know all the evil he does."  -  La
>Rochefoucauld

Actually, I said what I meant to say.  If someone fakes it to the list,
then I'll see it now won't I, unless there is another attack or five
happening at the same time to prevent me from getting my mail from the
list, and from getting it anywhere else.

If I saw it then I would post a signed message informing everyone that I
*hadn't* posted it, and continue signing my mails until I felt it was safe
to do otherwise.

Don't feel you have to continue to illustrate your point though, even
though investigation of the headers shows that the message actually
originated from a mail server in canada.. I know you didn't do as much as
you could have to make the message appear authentic.

In any case, I don't see you signing your messages either.


-The Spectre [SP4 w/ Clam Cluster]
-http://www.anthrax.net/cos
"No man is clever enough to know all the evil he does."  -  La Rochefoucauld





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mirror Site 
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 20:38:47 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: [Fwd: Upon further reflection... [WAS: It's not a trick, but it *is* done with mirrors...]]
Message-ID: <35135FD1.3569@dev.null>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: message/rfc822


To: Ross Wright 
Subject: Upon further reflection... [WAS: It's not a trick, but it *is* done with mirrors...]
From: Mirror Site 
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 21:51:56 -0800
CC: toto@sk.sympatico.ca
Organization: "In reality we talk only to ourselves, but sometimes we talk loud enough  that others may hear us." ~Kahil Gibran
References: <199803210337.VAA14052@orion.sk.sympatico.ca>
Reply-To: ms@dev.null

Ross Wright wrote:
> 
> Good to hear from you, Toto:
> 
> On or About 20 Mar 98 at 20:21, Spammer wrote:
> 
> > Ross,
> >   Your 'pro-spam' writings have often caused me to grind my
> > teeth in objection, for no apparent reason.
> 
> Well, I can not say the same of your writings.  You often bring a new
> spin to an item that makes me re-evaluate my thoughts and viewpoints.
> 
> > Being a Taoist,
> > however, I recognize that friction generally indicates that
> > I am resisting the flow of the universal Tao.
> 
> Excellent.  One must be aware of one's position in the universe.  If
> your tooth grindings serve you as a compass, then it is very wise to
> note same.
> 
> >   It is only now, in supporting your viewpoint out of sheer
> > contrariness, as opposed to being in agreement, that I have
> > finally figured out that your stance is a true CypherPunk
> > position.
> 
> Well, I always thought so.  Even so, the anti spammers mostly wore
> me down, and I rarely post about my fave topic.  I always thought
> CypherPunks were opposed to government regulations of any type.  I
> originally got onto this list because I was told that potential
> customers would be reading this list (ie: code writers).  I never
> realized that it would lead me into the pro-spam position.  Or that
> it would teach me how to bulk mail in a manner that nobody even
> suspects I am spamming.
> 
> >   The InterNet is truly a macrocosm of the many societal
> > microcosms already in existence. It is up to each and every
> > one of us to fit into our environment, strive to change it,
> > or abandon it for a different environment.
> 
> Yikes!  Profound shit, Toto.  How come you didn't post this to the
> list?  Are you pulling my cyber-leg?
> 
> > "Who will help me be a self-actualized individual?" said the
> > New-Age California Little Red Hen.
> 
> Bye for now.
> 
> Ross
> 
> =-=-=-=-=-=-
> Ross Wright
> King Media: Bulk Sales of Software Media and Duplication Services
> http://ross.adnetsol.com
> Voice: (408) 259-2795








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Toto 
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 21:29:21 -0800 (PST)
To: Ian Briggs 
Subject: Re: Fucking Sheeple / Re: Does Spamming Really Exist?
In-Reply-To: <3512E780.5FBD@dev.null>
Message-ID: <35136B20.F6@sk.sympatico.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Ian Briggs wrote:
> Sweaping generality, yes those of us that want everything we don't agree
> with put
> under penalty of death.
..... 
> No, wait.  Lets change that, we put those that don't agree with us on work
> projects for the 4th Reich.

Right on, Ian!
I'm tired of these anonymous cowards, hiding behind a fake address
such as dev.null, putting down those of us who recognize the need
of petitioning our government to put an end to using the InterNet
for purposes which are against the wishes of the majority.

> 1.  Its theft of services because its using my bandwidth to "harrass" my
> customers.

Exactly. I have been complaining to my ISP about their forwarding posts
from the CypherPunks list that I disagree with. Despite my complaints,
they allow this harrassment to continue.

> 2.  It may destroy my mail server.

Right on! If the anonymous cowards can make points that seem to lack
any sort of logic and sense, then they cannot whine when you do so,
as well.

> 3.  It may detrimentally effect the quality of my business.

Say, Ian...this is beginning to sound like 'whining'...

> 4.  It destroys other ISP mail server.

Although grammatically incorrect and seemingly nonsensical, I am
confident that you are trying to make a valid point.
 
> So back to your normal ranting, as I doubt anyone doesn't have an
> entrenched opinion concerning this.

Exactly. There are no anti-spammers in foxholes. 
 
> Im not the happiest person to be inviting the U.S. Goverment into this
> media, im pretty opposed to the U.S. Goverment in general and specific terms.

As long as they only pass legislation infringing on the rights of
those who are not in agreement with you and I, then our position
could only be seen as hypocritical by those who disagree with us.
 
> You want to know who we currently call for situations like this?
> FBI, executive order gave them all venue over crimes on the Internet via an
> executive order.
> 
> So guess what, the U.S. goverments already here.

And we can't fight City Hall, eh?

> I just don't want Joe Smoooze Dick the Marketing stud starting up his
> garage business selling e-mail lists for $99, cause he can.

This is every bit as despicable as people who sign up as an ISP
provider on the InterNet and then deny others the use of the shared
resources of the Net, because they can.
Some of these evil people interfere with the propogation of Holocaust
propoganda, instead of interfering with anti-Holocaust propoganda, as
is proper to those who oppose censorship.
 
> by the way, putting @dev.null in your return address
> thats pretty tricky, I bet you have a business card
> that says 31337.  I bet they teach that in all canadian
> schools.  Elite 101.

Those fucking FrostBacks think that they can crawl across the
49th virtual parallel and insult the memory of Dave Null, Defender
of the Void, with impunity. As soon as I look that word up, I'm
going to give them a piece of my mind. (This is a generous offer,
seeing as how I don't have much left).

~~~~
Toto 
~~~~





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSquncr 
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 20:40:55 -0800 (PST)
To: shadow@tfs.net
Subject: Re: UPSs
Message-ID: <94b30653.35134453@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


In a message dated 98-03-20 19:13:07 EST, shadow@tfs.net writes:

<< some protection is better than none. my roommate and I have our
 computers in the same room off of the same outlet but my computer has an
 UPS and his does not. During a storm, lightning hit near the apartment
 building and it took out his computer but not mine. But I do have a
 friend who lost his computer to a direct strike to the power lines and
 it took out the surge strip as well. At least in my case, it was not a
 direct strike into the power lines but what happened to my roommate made
 him get an UPS to at least have some protection next time. At least he
 will not have to possibly shell out another $1,500 for another computer. >>

I cannot argue against 'some is better than none' (or, if you're adding onto
your existing internal power supply, 'more is better than some').

BUT, of all things, when lightning strikes close to me, it takes out my modem,
nothing else. (and it's happened more than once (and they say it doesn't ever
strike in the same place twice!  ;-)  ))

Stan




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 00:05:45 -0800 (PST)
To: "Ross Wright" 
Subject: Re: Complaints about spam are TRUE theft of services
In-Reply-To: <199803202326.PAA09734@toad.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980320234658.0090d5f0@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 03:27 PM 3/20/98 -0700, Ross Wright wrote:
>No, actually your complaints about spam are TRUE theft of services. 

If you're a spammer, you're in no position to complain.

>[Anecdotes about somebody receiving more complaints about spam
than actual spam.]

Complaints about spam are free speech, and by encouraging Internet providers
to increase the size of their networks, they're obviously commerce :-)

Anecdotes are just anecdotes; except during the occasional flame war about spam, 
I generally receive a lot more spam than complaints.  And at least the 
complaints have some creative thought behind them, unlike the spam...
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Toto 
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 23:08:36 -0800 (PST)
To: Alec McCrackin 
Subject: Important Information!
Message-ID: <351381E3.3360@sk.sympatico.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

If you have received several copies of all of my pastes to the
CypherPukes list tonight, rest assured that it is a direct result
of my being a drunken asshole.
I have heard a rumor that the CypherPukes are taking up a collection
to get me an account on AOL. Can there be any greater disgrace?


To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Micro$not Ba$hing
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 07:19:30 +0100 (MET)
Organization: Replay Associates, L.L.P.
Sender: owner-cypherpunks@toad.com

Eric Tune wrote:
> Out of all the things I've heard said about Bill Gates, about
> Microsoft, (both as the Evil Empire and as a God-send) this makes
> about the most sense.  Truthmonger has it right.  

At the risk of having list members speculating that this anonymous
post is being sent by Toto/TruthMonger in order to gloat his dropping
Pearls of Wisdom upon those with weak connections to the ClueServer,
I would like to compliment Eric Tune on his recognition of my...Uhhhh,
I mean *TruthMonger*'s sense of Reality.

 > The ONLY significant in-roads that anyone has made with a Unix
> environment is Linux and BSD, and all the wishing in the world is not
> going to make it more palatable to "John Q. Public".  Unfortunately,
> Unix is a lot harder to learn for someone who started out in DOS or
> Mac software, and it's not near as user friendly.  What could be the
> incentive to NOT take Win95/NT/MacOS/OS2, which all have wide software
> bases, as opposed to the closed world of Unix?  John Q. Public doesn't
> want all this trouble, he just wants his kids to be able to research
> their history reports on the web, and for himself, to download a
> little late night skin pics when the wife is late from bingo.  He's in
> control of how the computer game is played these days, even if he
> doesn't understand it.

I *love* UNIX/Linux, but I have no illusions that they comprise a
viable option for John and Jane Q., unless they are provided at a
reasonable price, with GUI's that are usable by people who desire
to be able to use a computer without becoming a dweeb/guru/expert.
 
> Microsoft shouldn't be blamed because they were smarter than the rest
> of the industry, and when they couldn't be smarter, well, buying the
> other company works too.  Every one of you would do it the same way if
> you were Bill Gates running the largest software empire in the world,
> whether you would like to admit it or not.

This is exactly what the Anti-Micro$not Coalition is attempting. Instead
of making their software available to M.E. Tarzan and U. Jane at a
competitive price, they are attempting to prevent someone who sought
and got (Hey! I'm a poet...) their business from offering them even
more affordable software extensions to their basic operating system.
If providing the end-user with the tools to use their modem and the
InterNet is an anit-trust violation, then shouldn't the same concept
apply to OS vendors who provide tools for their customers to use
their printers, etc?

The much maligned 'Sheeple' desire only to have an OS that provides
them with the tools to use the products that they purchase from 
computer vendors.
The fact that Macintosh suffered in the marketplace from offering a
complete package for more money, while the PC vendors offered a more
affordable package which required additional purchases of software
to accomplish the same ends, is not a reflection on the stupidity
of J&J Q. Public. It is a reflection on the ignorance/unwillingness
of Apple to properly advertise the discrepancies in entry-level costs
versus end-result costs.
Tire companies are taking advantage of the shennanigans of their
competition by pointing out that their prices include such 'additional
items' such as valve stems, balancing, air, etc. Apple and Sun were
not constrained by Micro$not from doing the same thing.

Many of the UNIX/SCO systems that I sold to my customers were the 
result of my explaining cost-benefit ratios which I had to analyze
for myself, with no help from those actually producing/selling the
product.
As a former vendor who sold operating systems which were in comptetion
with DOS/Windows, despite the fact that their manufacturers were not
actively seeking my business, I feel no compunction in calling them
to task for attempting to suppress their competition by calling upon
the government to make them quit giving the public what they desire.

Sincerely,
...uuuhh...I can't remember what persona I am posting under...





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 23:35:49 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <858794b0d66cf1f95b7a9df28fd3b0aa@anon.efga.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


> > >   It is only now, in supporting your viewpoint out of sheer
> > > contrariness, as opposed to being in agreement, that I have
> > > finally figured out that your stance is a true CypherPunk
> > > position.

I have long held that most of those passing through the hallowed halls
of the cypherpunks list are not cypherpunks, but entities who are
striving to become cypherpunks--once they succeed, most of them move
on to other pursuits and activities.
Thank God that there are those who maintain their presence on the list
over long enough periods of time to help newbies and neophytes to
develop a cypherpunk frame of mind.

> > >   The InterNet is truly a macrocosm of the many societal
> > > microcosms already in existence. It is up to each and every
> > > one of us to fit into our environment, strive to change it,
> > > or abandon it for a different environment.
> >
> > Yikes!  Profound shit, Toto.  How come you didn't post this to the
> > list?  Are you pulling my cyber-leg?

Ross Wright, spam-promoter extraordinare, has become so gun-shy that
he can no longer recognize the difference between sarcasm and a post
by someone who recognizes that all alleged 'spammers' cannot be lumped
into the same stereotypical melting pot.
There are those who send 60 million emails out to Dog-and-everybody,
without regard to suitability to their sensibilities, and there are
those who strive to target their emails toward those who may actually
have an interest in their offerings.

Life itself is a double-edged sword. To compete with the shotgun 
spammers, those who wish to target an audience which is likely to
have a specific interest in their product or cause have need of
a database which will help them to categorize the interests of those
who traverse the WWW. In doing so, they run the risk of being lumped
in with those who use the same technology to monitor the same users
in order to work against their self-interest.

> > > "Who will help me be a self-actualized individual?" said the
> > > New-Age California Little Red Hen.

Nobody. For an extended explaination, read Horatio Alger.

PrecedentMonger II





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Integration 
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 23:48:41 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Fucking Sheeple / Re: Does Spamming Really Exist?  Um, yes.
Message-ID: <199803210748.CAA07357@wilde.oit.umass.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


> > projects for the 4th Reich.
> Right on, Ian!
> I'm tired of these anonymous cowards, hiding behind a fake address
> such as dev.null, putting down those of us who recognize the need
> of petitioning our government to put an end to using the InterNet
> for purposes which are against the wishes of the majority.
> > 1.  Its theft of services because its using my bandwidth to "harrass" my
> > customers.
> Exactly. I have been complaining to my ISP about their forwarding posts
> from the CypherPunks list that I disagree with. Despite my complaints,
> they allow this harrassment to continue.

December 8, 1997:  Today at work, I got an email from a company selling 
genital enlargers.  I was shocked: how did they get my email address?  I 
sat there at work, reading this email.  Then, as if waking from a dream, 
I looked at my watch.  I had wasted 5 whole minutes of my work time!  I 
quickly deleted the email, and went on my merry way.

December 10, 1997:  It happened again.  This time they wanted me to buy 
Disco albums from the 70's.  I was irate!  Susan overheard me mumbling to 
myself, and told me that just recently, she had received an email from an 
unknown source that had the word 'masturbate' in it.  I asked her if it 
was a harrasing email, and she quickly explained that it was an email 
regarding a certain medical condition, for which the emailer had a 
medical cure.  But still, she said.  She did look pretty flustered.  I 
shook my head and looked at my watch.  Damn!

January 23, 1998:  I just learned how to install email filters.  I can 
now block email marked 'bulk mail' or with certain generic 'to' fields.  
But it took me a goddamn day to install the damn filter.  I was talking 
to Joe, and he said that last week, he had to do the very same thing!  It 
seemed our whole company was up in arms!

January 30, 1998:  Joe, Susan, some others and I met with your system 
administrator today and asked him to install the filter automatically for 
everyone in the office.  He seemed hesitant, and even balked at doing it 
until we convinced The Boss to knuckle him under until he did it.  We 
were all very relieved.

February 15, 1998:  Stan, our system administrator, has been having a lot 
of trouble meeting all of the various filtering needs of the office, and 
so he said he is going to meet with our area service provider and see if 
they can do something in their system that would filter out more of the 
junk getting in to our office.  Today, someone said they had received 
email from some list of crypto punks or something like that.  I asked 
him, "What the hell is this world coming to?  Why can't we just be free 
of these goddamn punks and freaks cluttering our email with trash!"  He 
nodded righteously, and explained that he'd just subscribed to that 
crypto punk list last week, and he couldn't believe that he had to read 
such shit.

April 1, 1998:  I was reading the newspaper today, and an article caught 
my eye.  It said that a nationwide consortium of ISPs had gotten together 
and banned all email that met a certain basic description.  'Junk Mail' 
they called it, and it ranged from 'unwanted' list mail to anything 
'indecent' or 'obscene' or obvious 'spamming' type email.  Apparently, 
sophisticated lexical gates were being put in place on a huge number of 
servers nationwide to help stop the spam.  I was so happy I almost cried.

April 2, 1998:  The United States Government passed an emergency 
Communication Freedom Act, citing as a primary reason the acts of the 
consortium of ISPs.  The Government cited business interests as a primary 
reason for instituting a change in the policies of the ISPs.  The article 
in today's Times said that the newly formed Bureau of Internet 
Communications Privileges would meet with the consortium of ISPs, as well 
as other ISPs that had not agreed to the terms of the consortium, to work 
out a mandatory, fair and equitable agreement for validation of internet 
materials.  The Government was adamant that business related emails 
should, in some form or fashion, be allowed, even as 'spam', given proper 
certification.  I realized that I didn't mind that email trying to sell 
me a genital enlarger that much after all.

June 4, 1998:  Today at work, Stan, the system admin, held a meeting for 
managers.  He wanted to explain to us the new Government Certification 
System (TM).  The Government instituted a policy and technical 
implementation of it that would have the following features: (1) all 
personal email would be automatically parsed for indecent content in 
accordance with FCC rules, with the exception of 'adult channel' email, 
which required a special fee-based service, also certified by the 
Government, to be attached to one's account.  (2) all business email 
would be queued in a Certification Queue, and would be inspected for 
content if it was registered as 'bulk mail'.  Only companies who 
registered and paid a nominal fee to the Government would be allowed to 
use 'bulk mailing'.  (3) all encryption would have to be done with a 
key-escrowed encryption service.  That would insure that the Government 
could validate Certification on every email.  Incomprehensible email or 
otherwise suspicious email would be subject to instant deletion.  At 
work, things were going smoothly: Susan and Joe had no complaints.  I was 
so relieved that finally the Government had stepped in and fixed the 
Internet.

December 21, 1998:  Today in the Globe, there were two very interesting 
articles about the new Government Certification System.  The first 
article claimed that the system was now completely in place, and had even 
begun having noticeable effects: email and web traffic were down by .25% 
over the last 21 days!  Workplace reports on annoying and harrassing 
email or web content were down dramatically!  Businesses had jumped to 
sign up for certification, and according to the report, the Government 
claimed that the revenues generated were 'at least enough to fund the 
project and associated costs'.  What a relief for the economy!  The 
second article was more scandalous: apparently, 3 women had independently 
reported that President Clinton had 'cybered' with them on IRC chat 
channels.  One woman claims that he even made 'lewd and unbecoming' 
remarks.  The Bureau will be required by a Federal Court to turn over the 
transcripts and any necessary cryptographic keys next Monday for all 
sessions over the last 4 weeks.  This will help confirm or deny the 
allegations being pressed against the president.

January 1, 1999:  As I was walking down the Parade Route this morning, 
the headline on the Times caught my eye: "Group of Cryptographers 
Arrested".  I walked over to the machine and put in some change.  The 
article reported that a group of Cryptographers from the University of 
Berkeley and MIT were arrested on charges of including an unpatented and 
uncertified encryption scheme in freeware products distributed by the 
GNU/FSF.  The four professors claimed that they had repeatedly filed for 
patents but had been denied.  They also explained that the software in 
which the alleged 'cryptography' was bundled in was only for use in 
securing personal home systems from unauthorized personal use.  The 
Government issued a statement to the effect that cryptography is 
cryptography.  I did not really understand the details of the article, 
about the cryptography and the legal arguments and stuff, but I sure was 
mad at those four professors!

January 8, 1999:  What a scandal!  The mayor of Los Angeles was arrested 
today for 'the use and distribution of unauthorized pornography'.  The 
mayor claims that he only sent the pictures to his friend in Sacramento.  
But the law is the law.  The fine is supposed to be $250,000!  I was very 
disappointed in they mayor.  Imagine: SWIMSUIT photos!

January 11, 1999:  I just received my first subscription to Government 
Unix Magazine today.  The feature article was about Linux.  Apparently, 
Linux applied for Government Certification for Use of the Internet for 
Commerical and Distribution Purposes, and was turned down.  Government 
officials said that, "Linux is not a government approved project.  The 
people who wrote linux were a bunch of hackers.  The code is distributed 
for free.  That means anyone can go out there and put viruses and 
encryption right in the software!  How could we certify such a project?"  
In other news, Microsoft, after receiving certification from the 
Government, got permission to sponsor its own Automatic Updates Channel.  
Anyone connected to the internet will be automatically updated with 
upgrades and patches of MS Windows software.  Non-windows users will be 
alerted repeatedly and incessantly by email that they don't have Windows 
until they finally break down and buy it.

January 28, 1999:  Today, two teens were arrested and detained 
indefinitely by undercover agents who claimed that they had intercepted 
an encrypted transmission issuing from one of the teens' computers that 
was encrypted with an unknown protocol.  The transmission was headed for 
Russia, and authorities suspected that the teen was sending sensitive 
information illegally.  When I read the report, my heart filled with 
pride!  Home of the Brave, Land of the Free, the *U* *S* of *A*!




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Paul H. Merrill" 
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 23:54:28 -0800 (PST)
To: StanSquncr 
Subject: Re: UPSs
In-Reply-To: <94b30653.35134453@aol.com>
Message-ID: <35139C5E.324BE47A@acm.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


StanSquncr wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 98-03-20 19:13:07 EST, shadow@tfs.net writes:
> 
> << some protection is better than none. my roommate and I have our
>  computers in the same room off of the same outlet but my computer has an
>  UPS and his does not. During a storm, lightning hit near the apartment
>  building and it took out his computer but not mine. But I do have a
>  friend who lost his computer to a direct strike to the power lines and
>  it took out the surge strip as well. At least in my case, it was not a
>  direct strike into the power lines but what happened to my roommate made
>  him get an UPS to at least have some protection next time. At least he
>  will not have to possibly shell out another $1,500 for another computer. >>
> 
> I cannot argue against 'some is better than none' (or, if you're adding onto
> your existing internal power supply, 'more is better than some').
> 
> BUT, of all things, when lightning strikes close to me, it takes out my modem,
> nothing else. (and it's happened more than once (and they say it doesn't ever
> strike in the same place twice!  ;-)  ))
> 
> Stan

They do sell protectors for phone lines, too.  They are typically
marketed as notebook protectors, but I don't think your RJ-11 will mind
too much.

PHM

(APC has them I know)




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Integration 
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 00:47:19 -0800 (PST)
To: toto@sk.sympatico.ca
Subject: Re: Fucking Sheeple / Re: Does Spamming Really Exist?  Um, yes.
In-Reply-To: <"Toto"@Mar>
Message-ID: <199803210847.DAA26952@wilde.oit.umass.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


> You are more creative and astute than I am in even my most egotistical
> and self-congratulatory states of being.
> Please cease and deceasist!
> 
> ROTFLMAOMonger
> 
> Integration wrote:
> > December 8, 1997:  Today at work, I got an email from a company selling

You are too kind!  I'm just giving what is wanted... some candy and some 
medicine.

BTW, no need for a cease and desist.  I'm sure such an outpouring is 
fortunately infrequent.

*




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 20:57:29 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Faked mail from canada? (was : Clarification / Re: UPSs
Message-ID: <199803210457.FAA27438@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


The Spectre wrote:
> In any case, I don't see you signing your messages either.

Yes I do...


	 __________________________________
	|                                  |
	|        Watch For CypherPunks     |
	|                                  |
	|         Next Ten Posts           |
	|                                  |
	|                                  |
	 ----------------------------------
	                ||
	                ||
	                ||
	                ||
	                ||
	                ||
	                ||





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 22:19:40 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Micro$not Ba$hing
Message-ID: <199803210619.HAA08464@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Eric Tune wrote:
> Out of all the things I've heard said about Bill Gates, about
> Microsoft, (both as the Evil Empire and as a God-send) this makes
> about the most sense.  Truthmonger has it right.  

At the risk of having list members speculating that this anonymous
post is being sent by Toto/TruthMonger in order to gloat his dropping
Pearls of Wisdom upon those with weak connections to the ClueServer,
I would like to compliment Eric Tune on his recognition of my...Uhhhh,
I mean *TruthMonger*'s sense of Reality.

 > The ONLY significant in-roads that anyone has made with a Unix
> environment is Linux and BSD, and all the wishing in the world is not
> going to make it more palatable to "John Q. Public".  Unfortunately,
> Unix is a lot harder to learn for someone who started out in DOS or
> Mac software, and it's not near as user friendly.  What could be the
> incentive to NOT take Win95/NT/MacOS/OS2, which all have wide software
> bases, as opposed to the closed world of Unix?  John Q. Public doesn't
> want all this trouble, he just wants his kids to be able to research
> their history reports on the web, and for himself, to download a
> little late night skin pics when the wife is late from bingo.  He's in
> control of how the computer game is played these days, even if he
> doesn't understand it.

I *love* UNIX/Linux, but I have no illusions that they comprise a
viable option for John and Jane Q., unless they are provided at a
reasonable price, with GUI's that are usable by people who desire
to be able to use a computer without becoming a dweeb/guru/expert.
 
> Microsoft shouldn't be blamed because they were smarter than the rest
> of the industry, and when they couldn't be smarter, well, buying the
> other company works too.  Every one of you would do it the same way if
> you were Bill Gates running the largest software empire in the world,
> whether you would like to admit it or not.

This is exactly what the Anti-Micro$not Coalition is attempting. Instead
of making their software available to M.E. Tarzan and U. Jane at a
competitive price, they are attempting to prevent someone who sought
and got (Hey! I'm a poet...) their business from offering them even
more affordable software extensions to their basic operating system.
If providing the end-user with the tools to use their modem and the
InterNet is an anit-trust violation, then shouldn't the same concept
apply to OS vendors who provide tools for their customers to use
their printers, etc?

The much maligned 'Sheeple' desire only to have an OS that provides
them with the tools to use the products that they purchase from 
computer vendors.
The fact that Macintosh suffered in the marketplace from offering a
complete package for more money, while the PC vendors offered a more
affordable package which required additional purchases of software
to accomplish the same ends, is not a reflection on the stupidity
of J&J Q. Public. It is a reflection on the ignorance/unwillingness
of Apple to properly advertise the discrepancies in entry-level costs
versus end-result costs.
Tire companies are taking advantage of the shennanigans of their
competition by pointing out that their prices include such 'additional
items' such as valve stems, balancing, air, etc. Apple and Sun were
not constrained by Micro$not from doing the same thing.

Many of the UNIX/SCO systems that I sold to my customers were the 
result of my explaining cost-benefit ratios which I had to analyze
for myself, with no help from those actually producing/selling the
product.
As a former vendor who sold operating systems which were in comptetion
with DOS/Windows, despite the fact that their manufacturers were not
actively seeking my business, I feel no compunction in calling them
to task for attempting to suppress their competition by calling upon
the government to make them quit giving the public what they desire.

Sincerely,
...uuuhh...I can't remember what persona I am posting under...





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: The Spectre 
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 06:13:09 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Faked mail from canada? (was : Clarification / Re: UPSs  (yeah, it's off topic))
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

>Yes I do...
>	|                                  |
>	|        Watch For CypherPunks     |
>	|                                  |
>	|         Next Ten Posts           |

I'm on coderpunks, not  cypherpunks... my message must have been cc'd or
something, I wasn't paying attention.


- -The Spectre [SP4 w/ Clam Cluster]
- -http://www.anthrax.net/cos
"No man is clever enough to know all the evil he does."  -  La Rochefoucauld

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=OKCU
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Brian B. Riley" 
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 08:42:08 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: Re:
Message-ID: <199803211642.LAA14885@mx01.together.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On 3/21/98 2:42 AM, Anonymous (anon@anon.efga.org)  passed this wisdom:

>Life itself is a double-edged sword. To compete with the shotgun 
>spammers, those who wish to target an audience which is likely to 
>have a specific interest in their product or cause have need of a 
>database which will help them to categorize the interests of those 
>who traverse the  In doing so, they run the risk of being 
>lumped in with those who use the same technology to monitor the 
>same users in order to work against their self-interest.  

 Exactly, to lump all mass emailers into one homogenous category is all
wrong. I subscribe to a list people running Mac Performa series 
PowerPCs (almost all PPC 603/e)/v). We recently had someone who had
apparently subscribed to the list and lurked and built up a mailing list
of posters to the list to whom he later sent a solicitation ... it was
quite appropriate and as targetted as you can get, active participants
in a highly specific group ... you shopuld have heard the weeping an
gnashing of teeth ... the bandwidth comsumed by compliants was a
thousand fold greater than the solicitation itself!

 SPAM is the boogeyman of the hour. Yes there are bad spammers out there
and a modest knowledge of your mail client will handle 95% of them
straight to File 13, but I really do want to receive many of the
solicitations I get, I actually do buy things ...

 Just my .02

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5cpkyvq+rgzv0QuIHKileSDZRW3BfXK8jA/yUCZ/WkV3eWG4RNavR+Cv7PCsGq4j
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=87S8
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


Brian B. Riley --> http://members.macconnect.com/~brianbr
  For PGP Keys  

 "The woods would be very silent if no birds sang there except those 
  that sing the best."    -- Henry David Thoreau






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Paul H. Merrill" 
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 19:30:59 -0800 (PST)
To: StanSquncr 
Message-ID: <3514B012.A3945B3D@acm.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


StanSquncr wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 98-03-21 02:51:23 EST, you write:
> 
> << OTOH I hear , liberally intermingled, >>

WHat I mean is that 2/3 of the posts say they are screwing us out of our
rights and 2/3 talk about proof and evidence.  Yeah that means that some
talk about both.






> 
> Like what do you mean by "liberally intermingled"?
> 
> << that the government blows off our
>  rights (and more importantly, what is Right) ... >>
> 
> Starting with the Constitution/Bill of Rights (Article 6 part III and
> Amendment 14, in particular).
> 
> << ... and themes like proof and
>  evidence. >>
> 
> It's the right-wing that's doing that (and, see above).
> 
> 
> << First, the Powers That Be feel free to invent the "evidence" that they
>  need. >>
> 
> I'm sure it's happened (like anytime the police want to arrest a black person,
> for instance).
>

Or anyone else they decide to do it to.
 
> 
> << Second, I would not believe someone's own hard drive to give an accurate
>  depiction of EMail activity.  Deleting anything incriminating is easy
>  enough, so it not being there shows (much less Proves) nothing.  And it
>  is relatively simple to alter stored EMail, so that does no more good. >>
> 
> Right.  So delete your incriminating evidence, and save anything you send to a
> list (which they could get a copy of anyway.)
>

The thing is that *I* can get the list stuff myself if it ever gets
anywhere.  (Methinks that algebra is having problems these days)

 
> << If them people want to screw me, let them do all of the work for
>  themselves. >>
> 
> Now THAT I totally agree with you on.  :-)
> 
> Stan


Besides I find very little of all this that deserves more than a thought
or two and those that do are stored in my "Mark VI Between The Ears
Onboard Computer".

PHM




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: andrew fabbro 
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 21:08:44 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Crypto, anyone?
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I was just wondering if anyone would be interested in discussing
cryptography, personal privacy, security protocols, digital signatures,
anonymous remailers, digital cash, crypto anarchy...?  No?  OK, then we
can go back to spam, Microsoft bashing, calling each other "idiots" and
"chickens," and forwarding News of the Weird for no obvious reason.


-- 
 Andrew Fabbro   [afabbro@umich.edu]   [andrewf@jesuswept.com]
 http://www-personal.umich.edu/~afabbro/          313.647.2713 
 "We make money the old fashion way. We print it." - DigiCrime





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSquncr 
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 21:48:12 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: My Most Abject Apologies
Message-ID: <4a5fa05.3514a5d6@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


In a message dated 98-03-21 22:31:05 EST, paulmerrill@acm.org writes:

<< > In a message dated 98-03-21 02:51:23 EST, you write:
 > 
 > << OTOH I hear , liberally intermingled, >>
 
 WHat I mean is that 2/3 of the posts say they are screwing us out of our
 rights and 2/3 talk about proof and evidence.  Yeah that means that some
 talk about both. >>

Yea, but what I mean is, who are they accusing (the liberals, I'm guessing
(sorry cypher's, got a big gig coming up Friday night and I haven't been able
to read everything))?
 
 
<< > I'm sure it's happened (like anytime the police want to arrest a black
person,
 > for instance).
 >
 
 Or anyone else they decide to do it to. >>

Well, I'm normally a long-haired hippie, so I know what you're talking about.
That's part of our history.  But these days, at least here in Houston, they
seem to be laying off of us a bit, as they really have an idea who's giving
them the troubles (and it's the drunk cowboys in their pickup truck, they get
in a whole lot of wrecks!)

Oh, they still get us, though (through piss-testing (this ain't a 'Democracy'
anymore, it's 'Corporate Rule'))!

Stan




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Toto 
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 23:17:19 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Emptying the trash...
Message-ID: <3514D686.5580@sk.sympatico.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


[Sent to Netscape feedback defartment]

The next trash I will be emptying will be my installation of Netscape.

Netscape has been my only browser since gaining InterNet access, but I
am not going to
use a product from a company who requires me to jump through hoops to
ensure privacy through strong encryption and then tells me to fuck off
because they are incapable of verifying my net persona and/or location.

If Netscape intends to make their software compliant with the wishes of
those who want to illegally monitor my location and identity, then they
should at least require those fascists to supply you with this
information for you to use for my convenience in acquiring your product.

I send weekly death threats to Bill Gates, but I'll bet my ass that
Micro$not lets me download their browser so that he can go to his grave
clutching my cash in his hand.

~~~~
Toto 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 17:05:28 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: And they all work for the government...
Message-ID: <199803220105.CAA03456@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


* The London Daily Telegraph reported in January on the thriving
addiction clinics of Dr. Robert Lefever, who specializes in helping
people who are obsessed with helping other people.  Among the
500 patients a year he sees in London and Kent are a number of
women who compulsively marry alcoholics so they can cure them. 
Another recent patient was hospitalized for exhaustion after
caretaking an overweight woman, including obsessively rolling her
in her wheelchair to many places she did not want to go. 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NEWS OF THE WEIRD, founded in 1988, is a nationally syndicated
newspaper column distributed by Universal Press Syndicate.  To
receive the columns by e-mail, free of charge, send a message to
notw-request@nine.org with the Subject line of Subscribe.  To read
these News of the Weird newspaper columns from the past six months,
go to http://www.nine.org/notw/notw.html  (That site contains no
graphics, no photos, no video clips, no audio.  Just text.  Deal
with it.)






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 17:07:04 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: CypherPunk Flame Wars...
Message-ID: <199803220106.CAA03752@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


::
Anon-To: cypherpunks@toad.com

::
Anon-To: cypherpunks@toad.com

* In a September issue of New Scientist magazine, researchers in
Germany wrote that a type of hermaphroditic flatworm mates
through what they call "penis fencing."  In the presence of another,
a worm lashes out with its penis to attempt to inject sperm, but the
potential mate might have similar ideas itself, and in bouts that last
up to an hour, each attempts to inseminate the other.  Often both
worms are left severely punctured. 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NEWS OF THE WEIRD, founded in 1988, is a nationally syndicated
newspaper column distributed by Universal Press Syndicate.  To
receive the columns by e-mail, free of charge, send a message to
notw-request@nine.org with the Subject line of Subscribe.  To read
these News of the Weird newspaper columns from the past six months,
go to http://www.nine.org/notw/notw.html  (That site contains no
graphics, no photos, no video clips, no audio.  Just text.  Deal
with it.)






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 17:07:44 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: ClueServer Permanently Down...
Message-ID: <199803220107.CAA03879@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


* Latest prices charged by parents to sell their kids (Covington,
La., January, $7,400; Orlando, Fla., January, $1,000); latest game
of automobile chicken that ended in a tie (Michigan Center, Mich.,
January, three hospitalized, one in critical condition); latest
attempted robbery in which the unarmed perp simulates a gun with
his thumb and forefinger but doesn't have his hand in his pocket at
the time (La Ronge, Saskatchewan, December, not surprisingly,
coming away with no money).

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NEWS OF THE WEIRD, founded in 1988, is a nationally syndicated
newspaper column distributed by Universal Press Syndicate.  To
receive the columns by e-mail, free of charge, send a message to
notw-request@nine.org with the Subject line of Subscribe.  To read
these News of the Weird newspaper columns from the past six months,
go to http://www.nine.org/notw/notw.html  (That site contains no
graphics, no photos, no video clips, no audio.  Just text.  Deal
with it.)





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 17:09:03 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Dimitri's Tentacles...
Message-ID: <199803220108.CAA04973@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


* In September, Mr. Anoki P. Sultan filed a lawsuit in Washington,
D.C., against Roman Catholic Archbishop James Hickey, claiming
that the Church was responsible for the devil's taking over his body
in 1983.  Sultan said that would account for his being out of work
so much, dropping out of college, seeking mental-health treatment,
smoking cigarettes, speaking in tongues, and engaging in
homosexual acts.  He sought either $100 million or an exorcism. 
(The lawsuit was dismissed.) 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NEWS OF THE WEIRD, founded in 1988, is a nationally syndicated
newspaper column distributed by Universal Press Syndicate.  To
receive the columns by e-mail, free of charge, send a message to
notw-request@nine.org with the Subject line of Subscribe.  To read
these News of the Weird newspaper columns from the past six months,
go to http://www.nine.org/notw/notw.html  (That site contains no
graphics, no photos, no video clips, no audio.  Just text.  Deal
with it.)






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: an105@hotmail.com
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 02:46:46 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: stand-by
Message-ID: <011297055501222@mix1.Sacramento.mci.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





                Hi, after adjusting claims for several insurance companies, I
found one thing the same.  No one seems to know much about what they are
entitled to.  So I decided to help the public towards even footing with 
insurance adjusters. 

                I have been a crusader for policyholder's rights for a good many
years since and received acclaim from state departments' of insurance 
and state Governors for my work, albeit obscure.  Anyway, you may want
to bookmark my "deserve" website just in case that rainy day happens to 
come your way.

               Socrates never sold insurance, but his words apply to this
industry as well:  "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is
ignorance."

                                                       Best wishes,

                                                       Tony Braga

deserve link:  http://www.sure-net.com/deserve.html




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 20:33:38 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Prologue 9/0 -- SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS
Message-ID: <199803220433.FAA28959@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Prologue 9/0 -- SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS
------------------------------------------

Magic Circle:

Writing from his room in the Grand Hotel Principe in Limone Piemonte, 
Jones thanked his old friend for the words of encouragement. The honor,
said Sir Eric, "has been won by a lot of hard work by very many people
within the circle and on the fringes of it, and it has also been partly
won by friendly cooperation from people." 


Parker Paradox:

Representing GCHQ at NSA during the mid-1960s was Reginald H. Parker, 
a dashing Englishman with an infectious sense of humor.


Early Members of the Circle of Eunuchs:

Official eavesdropping in Britain is steeped in tradition and shrouded 
in secrecy. Even Shakespeare made note of the practice when he wrote in 
Henry V, "The king hath note of all that they intend / By interception 
which they dream not of." 

Britain's Royal Mail Openers managed a charmed existence. Their single 
public scandal occurred in 1844, when Joseph Mazzini charged Secretary 
of State Sir James Graham with opening his letters and passing the 
contents on to the Neapolitan government.

John Goldhammer of Commercial Cable Company and Clarence H. Mackay of
Commercial Cable Postal Telegraph Company. "In July, 1919," explained
Goldhammer, "when British censorship ceased, we were ordered by the 
British Government to turn over to them all messages passing between 
our own offices, 10 days after they were sent." 

The original and primary source for information on ECHELON is an 
article I wrote in New Statesman magazine ten years ago : NS, 12 August 
1988 : "They've got it taped".  

To forge this alliance, the NSA, soon after it was formed, established 
the National Security Agency Scientific Advisory Board (NSASAB), a 
ten-member panel of science wizards plucked from ivy-covered campuses,
corporate research labs, and sheepskin-lined think tanks. 
Among the early members of the board was Stewart S. Cairns, who had 
earned his doctorate at Harvard and was chairman of the mathematics 
department at the University of Illinois at Urbana (the same school 
where William Martin, not long before his defection, would be sent on 
a two-year scholarship).

When Vice Admiral Laurence Frost arrived at the Puzzle Palace in the 
fall of 1960, he found relations between the board and NSA strained and 
bitter. 


I LUV FUD! (The Medium is the Enemy):

In 1956 Dr. Howard T. Engstrom, a computer wizard and vice president of 
Remington Rand, took over NSA's research and development organization. 
The following year he was appointed deputy director of NSA and a year
later returned to Remington Rand. 

Joseph H. Ream, executive vice president at CBS, was imported to 
replace Engstrom as deputy director. He, too, left after a year; he 
headed up CBS's Washington office and later CBS-TV's programming 
department.
Ream's interlude at NSA is listed on his CBS biography simply as 
"retirement." 

Three months before Ream gave up codebreaking for "I Love Lucy," one of 
the most important meetings in the history of the Agency took place in 
a clapboard structure on Arlington Hall Station known as B Building. On 
July 18, 1957, a handful of the nation's top scientists crowded 
together in NSA's windowless Situation Room to present a blueprint for 
the Agency's future technological survival.* 


Nuclear PigLatin:

They...recommended the initiation of a Manhattan Project-like effort to 
push the USA well ahead of the Soviet Union and all other nations in 
the application of communications, computer science, mathematics, and 
information theory to cryptology.


Rear Entry:

Now the decision had to be made about whether to continue funding, as 
with Lightning, generalized, public research or to begin to direct 
those funds toward secret, specialized, cryptologic research. It was a 
choice between an open bridge or a hidden tunnel between the Agency and 
the outside scientific community. Following the Baker report, the 
decision was to use the tunnel.


Lost Alamo Chaos:

The CRD's statistics are, however, a bit misleading. Shortly after the 
division's birth, several programs were launched to bring into the 
secret fraternity several dozen of the nation's most outstanding 
academic minds in mathematics and languages.


The Evil One Writes Black Operatives A Blank Check:

"NSA," the Agency declared with all due modesty, "certainly hastened 
the start of the computer age." Among the early products of that age 
was the use of computers in the banking industry for everything from 
the massive transfers of money between banks and other financial 
institutions, to the simple recording of a midnight transaction at a 
remote automatic teller. But there was another product: computer crime. 
With sufficient knowledge and the access to a terminal, one could trick 
the computer into transferring funds into a dummy account or tickle a 
cash-dispensing machine into disgorging its considerable holdings. 


Caveat Emptor [WAS: Of course I luvs you...I fucks you, don't I?]:

IBM board chairman Thomas Watson, Jr., during the late 1960s set up a 
cryptology research group at IBM's research laboratory in Yorktown 
Heights, New York. Led by Horst Feistel, the research group concluded 
its work in 1971 with the development of a cipher code-named Lucifer, 
which it promptly sold to Lloyd's of London for use in a 
cash-dispensing system that IBM had developed. 

IBM developed Lucifer with a key 128 bits long. But before it submitted 
the cipher to the NBS, it mysteriously broke off more than half the 
key. 


Government Encryption...There's A Method In Their Madness:

>From the very beginning, the NSA had taken an enormous interest in 
Project Lucifer. It had even indirectly lent a hand in the development 
of the S-box structures.


Debbie Does Ca$h:

The Agency, in turn, certified the algorithm as "free of any 
statistical or mathematical weaknesses" and recommended it as the best 
candidate for the nation's Data Encryption Standard (DES). 


DC Does Chelsea:

The cozy relationship that the Agency had fostered with IBM would be
impossible with the free-wheeling academics. Nevertheless, virtually 
all the researchers had an Achilles' heel: the National Science 
Foundation. 


D'Shauneaux Does DC:

Vice Admiral Bobby Inman moved into the Puzzle Palace, replacing newly 
promoted General Lew Allen, Jr.


Fear:

Without any authorization, he wrote a threatening letter to the 
Institute of Electrical and Electronic Engineers (IEEE), the nation's 
largest professional engineering society (of which he was a member), 
warning that those planning to participate in an upcoming IEEE 
symposium on cryptology might violate the law. 

Uncertainty:
What Meyer emphasized was that ITAR covered the export not only of 
actual hardware, but also of unclassified technical data associated 
with the restricted equipment. 

Disinformation:
He claimed that holding symposia and publishing papers on cryptology 
were the same as exporting the information. Thus, he concluded, "unless 
clearances or export licenses are obtained" on some of the lectures and 
papers, "the IEEE could find itself in technical violation of the 
ITAR." 


"When time is of essence, he'll rise from the ash.":

Nicolai had suddenly been assaulted with one of the oldest weapons in 
the nation's national security arsenal: the Invention Secrecy Act. 
Passed in 1917 as a wartime measure to prevent the publication of 
inventions that might "be detrimental to the public safety or defense 
or might assist the enemy or endanger the successful prosecution
of the war," the measure ended with the conclusion of World War I. The 
act was resurrected in 1940 and was later extended until the end of the 
Second World War. Then, like the phoenix, it once again rose from the 
ashes with the passage of the Invention Secrecy Act of 1951, which 
mandated that secrecy orders be kept for periods of no more than one 
year unless renewed. There was a catch, however. The act also said that 
a secrecy order "in effect, or issued, during a national emergency 
declared by the President shall remain in effect for the duration of
the national emergency and six months thereafter." Because no one ever 
bothered to declare an end to President Truman's 1951 emergency, the 
emergency remained in effect until September 1978. 


The Zimmermann Lineage:

To add insult to injury, Nicolai was planning to market his Phasorphone 
at a price most buyers could easily afford, about $100, thus increasing 
the interest in the technology. 


Ted Turner Loves Lucy, Too:

The director's tactic was to launch a counterattack on two fronts--one 
in the open and the other behind the scenes. On the open front, Inman 
decided to convert to his own use what he believed was his opponent's 
biggest weapon: the media. 
Now he himself would begin manipulating the press for the Agency's 
benefit. 


Born Classified/Oppressed/Repressed/Depressed:

But Inman's most telling comment was his statement to Shapley that he 
would like to see the NSA receive the same authority over cryptology 
that the Department of Energy enjoys over research into atomic energy. 
Such authority would grant to NSA absolute "born classified" control 
over all research in any way related to cryptology. 


PGP ProphetSized:

Warned Inman:
     Application of the genius of the American scholarly community to 
     cryptographic and cryptanalytic problems, and widespread 
     dissemination of resulting discoveries, carry the clear risk that 
     some of NSA's cryptanalytic successes will be duplicated, with a 
     consequent improvement of cryptography by foreign targets. No less 
     significant is the risk that cryptographic principles embodied in
     communications security devices developed by NSA will be rendered
     ineffective by parallel nongovernmental cryptologic activity and 
     publication.


Voluntary 'Dog At Large'Fines:

Recognizing the constitutional questions involved in such drastic 
actions, the study group decided on a middle ground: a system of 
voluntary censorship. 


Elvis Assassinated By The Men In Black:

Faurer, addressing a meeting of the IEEE, left little doubt that to 
ignore the Center would be to risk saying good-by to lucrative 
government contracts. "Frankly," the NSA chief warned, "our intention 
is to significantly reward those DOD suppliers who produce the computer 
security products that we need." 


Monkeywrenching Dave Null:

Lack of such cooperation, CIA Deputy Director Inman said at the 
Center's opening, "might lead to a highly undesirable situation where 
private-sector users (e.g., banks, insurance companies) have higher 
integrity systems than the government." 


Voluntary/Mandatory:

As a result of what he called the "hemorrhaging of the country's 
technology," Inman warned a meeting of the American Association for the 
Advancement of Science that "the tides are moving, and moving fast, 
toward legislated solutions that in fact are likely to be much more 
restrictive, not less restrictive, than the "voluntary" censorship 
system of the Study Group. 


[ADVERTISEMENT] Nuclear Hoover Vacume Gets ALL The Dirt:

On the other hand, drug dealers were not the only ones who unwittingly 
found their way into NSA's magnetic-tape library. Also captured were 
the hungry demands of wayward congressmen insisting on bribes from 
foreign governments.


You Have A Right To Be Monitored:
You Have A Right To Be Kept In The Dark:
You Have A Right To No Counsel:

The key to the legislation could have been dreamed up by Franz Kafka: 
the establishment of a supersecret federal court. Sealed away behind a 
cipher-locked door in a windowless room on the top floor of the Justice
Department building, the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court is 
most certainly the strangest creation in the history of the federal 
Judiciary.

Almost unheard of outside the inner sanctum of the intelligence 
establishment, the court is like no other. It sits in secret session, 
holds no adversary hearings, and issues almost no public opinions or 
reports. It is listed in neither the Government Organizational Manual 
nor the United States Court Directory and has even tried to keep
its precise location a secret. "On its face," said one legal authority 
familiar with the court, "it is an affront to the traditional American 
concept of justice." 

You Have A Right To Bend Over:

Under such circumstances, it is little wonder that the federal
government has never lost a case before the court.


Legalizing WaterGate:

When the Reagan administration came into office, however, the Justice 
Department argued that the power for foreign intelligence black-bag 
jobs was vested not in the court, but in the inherent authority of the
President. Presiding Judge Hart, in the court's only published opinion, 
agreed. Thus, in rejecting the administration's application for a new 
surreptitious entry, he was in fact going along with the argument of 
the Justice Department. As a result the rejected break-in and all 
subsequent surreptitious entries need no court authorization, only 
presidential approval. 


Rule of Obscurity [WAS: Rule of Law]:

Even more disturbing than the apparent evolution of the surveillance 
court into an Executive Branch rubber stamp are the gaping holes and 
clever wording of the FISA statute, which nearly void it of usefulness. 
Such language, intentional as well as unintentional, permits the NSA to 
rummage at will through the nation's international telecommunications 
network and to target or watch-list any American who happens to step 
foot out of the country. 


The Information Surveillance Highway:

"Electronic surveillance," the statute reads, means "the acquisition by 
an electronic, mechanical, or other surveillance device" of the 
approved targets. But nowhere does the statute define the meaning of 
the key word acquisition. Rather, it is left to NSA to define.


The Inlsaw/Indio Reservation Gambling Gambit:

Thus it is possible for GCHQ to monitor the necessary domestic or 
foreign circuits of interest and pass them on to NSA through the UKUSA 
Agreement. Once they were received, NSA could process the 
communications through its own computers and analysts, targeting and 
watch-listing Americans with impunity, since the action would not be 
covered under the FISA statute or any other law. 


Debbie Does Deputy Dog:

No such exclusion, however, was ever included in the final FISA 
statute. Instead, the statute now calls for what one constitutional law 
expert has termed "compulsory spy service," requiring "communications 
common carriers, their officers, employees, and agents . . . to provide 
information, facilities, or technical assistance to persons
authorized by law to intercept wire or oral communications or to 
conduct electronic surveillance" and also ordering them to protect the 
secrecy of the operations. 


CAMP Revisited / Crypto Uzis for Deputy Dog:

Under the Reagan executive order, the NSA can now, apparently, be 
authorized to lend its full cryptanalytic support--analysts as well as 
computers--to "any department or agency" in the federal government and, 
"when lives are endangered," even to local police departments. 


David Waters Predicts SmartSSNCards:

     Tons of electronic surveillance equipment at this moment are 
     interconnected within our domestic and international common 
     carrier telecommunications systems. Much more is under contract 
     for installation. Perhaps this equipment is humming away in a 
     semi-quiescent state wherein at present "no citizen is targeted"; 
     simply scanned. . . How soon will it be, however, before a punched 
     card will quietly be dropped into the machine, a card having your 
     telephone number, my telephone number, or the number of one of our 
     friends to whom we will be speaking? 


And once we've rid ourselves of those pesky humans...:

"HUMINT [Human Intelligence] is subject to all of the mental 
aberrations of the source as well as the interpreter of the source," 
Lieutenant General Marshall S. Carter once explained. "SIGINT isn't. 
SIGINT has technical aberrations which give it away almost immediately 
if it does not have bona fides, if it is not legitimate. A good
analyst can tell very, very quickly whether this is an attempt at 
disinformation, at confusion, from SIGINT. You can't do that from 
HUMINT; you don't have the bona fides--what are his sources? He may be 
the source, but what are his sources?" 


Chuck Conners Appointed To Supreme Court--Cows Nervous:

Can it be that the Constitution affords no protection against such 
invasions of individual security? * 

     * Justice Brandeis answered his own question when he quoted from 
     Boyd v. United States (116 u.s. 616): "It is not the breaking of 
     his doors, and the rummaging of his drawers that constitutes the 
     essence of the offense; but it is the invasion of his indefensible 
     right of personal security, personal liberty, and private 
     property. (277 U.S.438, at pages 474-475.) 


Army of (Black) Dog / Take A Bite Out Of Technotyranny:

I don't want to see this country ever go across the bridge. I know the 
capacity that is there to make tyranny total in America, and we must 
see to it that this agency and all agencies that possess this
technology operate within the law and under proper supervision, so that 
we never cross over that abyss. That is the abyss from which there no 
return.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 22:40:12 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Crypto, anyone?
Message-ID: <199803220640.HAA13967@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


andrew fabbro wrote:
> 
> I was just wondering if anyone would be interested in discussing
> cryptography, personal privacy, security protocols, digital signatures,
> anonymous remailers, digital cash, crypto anarchy...?  No?  OK, then we
> can go back to spam, Microsoft bashing, calling each other "idiots" and
> "chickens," and forwarding News of the Weird for no obvious reason.

What the fuck is crypto? Can you *say* that on a public mailing
list?
Isn't child cryptography illegal?
Isn't sharing pubic keys a form of perversion?
Is digital cash used to buy a blow-job?

"How can you tell when Windows is about to crash?"
	"It boots."






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 06:56:38 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Rivest's Chaffing and Winnowing
Message-ID: <199803221456.JAA07529@camel8.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


   The New York Times, March 22, 1998, p. 31.

   New Method To Veil Data Could Upstage Export Policy 

      Cryptologists find a way to foil eavesdroppers without
      secret codes.

   By John Markoff

   San Francisco, March 21 -- One of the nation's leading
   computer scientists has proposed a novel technique for
   scrambling data that could circumvent Government export
   policies aimed at limiting the foreign sale of encryption
   technology.

   The technique, which was described this week in an Internet
   discussion among computer researchers, was introduced by
   Ronald L. Rivest, a computer scientist at the Massachusetts
   Institute of Technology and one of the inventors of the
   most widely used commercial encryption scheme, RSA.

   The new approach, which is described in a short technical
   paper that has been posted to Mr. Rivest's M.I.T. Web site
   (http://theory.lcs.mit.edu/~rivest/chaffing.txt), is
   described as "chaffing and winnowing" digital information
   instead of encrypting it.

   According to Mr. Rivest's paper, it is possible to hide a
   message by breaking it into packets that are then secretly
   identified as good information, or "wheat," and gibberish,
   or "chaff," in such a way that an eavesdropper cannot
   distinguish the two.

   Because the individual packets would not be encrypted, Mr.
   Rivest said, such a system would circumvent current export
   restrictions.

   The two principal ways of communicating in secret are
   encryption and steganography. Steganography uses computer
   techniques to embed a secret message in a document like a
   digital image. In encryption, secret information is encoded
   using functions that require difficult mathematical tasks
   to decode, and it has become the standard way of
   transmitting secret information electronically.

   There are no restrictions on the domestic use of this
   technology, but the Government has been trying to force the
   industry to adopt standards that would permit
   law-enforcement officials to have mathematical keys
   allowing them to decode messages without the knowledge of
   the sender or receiver. The Clinton Administration says the
   standards are needed to fight crime and terrorism.
   Opponents argue that the Government decoding keys, to be
   stored in computers, could easily be stolen, compromising
   privacy and the security of credit card numbers and other
   personal information.

   In terms of exports, with few exceptions the Government
   limits the software to codes that can be easily broken.

   "Winnowing does not employ encryption, and so does not have
   a 'decryption key,' " Mr. Rivest wrote in his paper. "As
   usual, the policy debate about regulating technology ends
   up being obsoleted by technological innovations."

   Peter Neumann, an SRI International computer scientist who
   has read Mr. Rivest's paper, said that although "there is
   still no certainty that this is a practical idea," if it
   works, "it throws another clinker at the Justice
   Department."

   Other cryptography experts said they were uncertain whether
   it would be possible to skirt Government export
   restrictions in this way, but that the idea was an
   impressive new approach that might have valuable commercial
   applications.

   "He's a very clever guy," said George Spix, a Microsoft
   researcher who specializes in cryptography policy issues.
   " It goes to show that for all the technological wizardry
   in the world, there's nothing like an intellect."

   One of the potential limitations of the new method is that
   the total information transmitted might need to be hundreds
   of times larger than the actual message.

   Mr. Rivest said, however, that he had discussed the idea
   with Adi Shamir, an Israeli cryptographer, and that Mr.
   Shamir had proposed compression methods that would reduce
   the total transmission to only about twice the actual
   message size.

   The strength of the idea for chaffing and winnowing is that

   it is possible to prove mathematically that a message
   cannot be decoded, Mr. Rivest said.

   He said he had come up with the idea recently while
   teaching an undergraduate computer course.

   In addition to his role as associate director of the
   Laboratory of Computer Science at M.I.T., Mr. Rivest is a
   consultant and shareholder in RSA Data Security Inc., a
   company that develops encryption software.

   "I put the winnowing and chaffing idea out there to
   stimulate debate,"' Mr. Rivest said. "I hope it will help
   clear up some of the issues that have been raised in the
   policy discussion.
             
   [End]








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 08:26:21 -0800 (PST)
To: Robert Hettinga 
Subject: Re: Prediction: NAI will issue a "Clarification" about PGP     from  Europe
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980321224959.008e34b0@cnw.com>
Message-ID: <199803221626.LAA10101@camel8.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Robert Hettinga wrote:

>John has the drugs. Talk to him. Then you'll ***Understand***...

You talking to me? Look at me! Let's settle this now. Get it 
straight from the purple nose: Not drugs, nuts, A-grade shit, 
highest quality, cheap E$, dosing me and the other Messiahs 
vampiring Big DaddyMommy -- that spaced-out hermaphroditic 
duo's infinitely beyond  psycho-pharmacological cryptanalysis.

Try it, you'll like it. Endorsed by Thor and Brunhilde, Zeus and Juno, 
Samson and Delilah, Amazons and Moses, Cleopatra and  Nero, 
Jesus and FHC,  Atilla and Joan d'Arc, Machiavelli and Teresa de 
Avilla, Nietzsche and Cosima, Hitler and Eva, Ghandi and Queen 
Mary, Elvis and Janis, Paglia and Dice Clay, Teller and Penn, Pogo 
and Dilbert, NSA and BXA, and others here faking normalcy:

Watch for very clear articulation, point by point argument, neat
numbered paragraphs, implacable coherency, occcasional bullet
spray for emphasis, peculiar indents and concussion grenades, 
unpredictable ellipses of EM wipeout, wide-area split infinitives, 
carpet bombs of dangling modifiers, genocidal threats at contra-blancos,
vile accusations of self-flagellations, all with not a hair or beard out 
of place, a sure sign of uh oh, don't jiggle this nitroid.

That's just those who post. The others back there, well. 







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Sergey Goldgaber 
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 09:18:29 -0800 (PST)
To: John Young 
Subject: Re: Rivest's Chaffing and Winnowing
In-Reply-To: <199803221456.JAA07529@camel8.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On Sun, 22 Mar 1998, John Young wrote:

>    The New York Times, March 22, 1998, p. 31.
>
>    New Method To Veil Data Could Upstage Export Policy
>
>       Cryptologists find a way to foil eavesdroppers without
>       secret codes.

As if steganography was new.

>    The new approach, which is described in a short technical
>    paper that has been posted to Mr. Rivest's M.I.T. Web site
>    (http://theory.lcs.mit.edu/~rivest/chaffing.txt), is
>    described as "chaffing and winnowing" digital information
>    instead of encrypting it.

Using steganoraphic techniques on low-level elements of
network communication (packets) was considered many years ago
in this very forum.  A particular suggestion seemed much more
effective than Rivest's proposal.  It aim was to hide
information among seemingly innocuous communication.  Whereas,
it is obvious to any observer of a "chaffing" exchange that
an abnormal exchange was taking place.

Of course, if all communication was "chaffed" then that same
exchange would seem perfectly ordinary.  However, the chaffing
technique (creating "bogus" packets, transmitting them along
with the real information, and seperating the two) creates
a lot of overhead... which may not use much bandwidth if
used occasionally, but would create a serious problem if
everyone did it all the time.

>    According to Mr. Rivest's paper, it is possible to hide a
>    message by breaking it into packets that are then secretly
>    identified as good information, or "wheat," and gibberish,
>    or "chaff," in such a way that an eavesdropper cannot
>    distinguish the two.

The earlier suggestion was to hide information in unused, least
significant, portions of the packet _header_, leaving the data
portion intact.  Thus, the overhead of creating "bogus" packets
is eliminated, the bandwidth used in sending them is conserved,
and the processing power used in seperating the "wheat" from the
"chaff" is freed.

Further, by all accounts, the data transmitted would seem
perfectly ordinary to an eavesdropper.  It could be a poem or
a picture.  However, it would be completely irrelevant, as
the real message is hidden in the header.

Finally, there are the more traditional steganographic techniques
such as using the least significant bits of gifs, jpegs, and wavs.
And, most intriguing of all, mimic functions.


 ............................................................................
 . Sergey Goldgaber                  Senior System Engineer  .
 ............................................................................
 .   To him who does not know the world is on fire, I have nothing to say   .
 .                                                      - Bertholt Brecht   .
 ............................................................................

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.2

iQCVAwUBNRVG+Mgbnd/MibbZAQEaRwP9Fy825U05t9xyHa0vN5wFFCNBR0NHrik0
cFBG357a1+MRA90uxvUztB736uf71a39HP0172sjyAg3TXVG9MEpCxFDDa6OZAWQ
9Xgq9TSaUTJUXJVsockFTHF6F9zDLIAvw2s365J4dr3++Uj/JreaaX7pcLVmCujO
DkuInR89aG8=
=B9nV
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: adcp545@juno.com
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 16:11:18 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: ------->DEBT CONSOLIDATION LOAN PROGRAM <--------
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Dear cypherpunks@toad.com,

   Debt Consolidation Loan Program

   Consolidate all your unsecured debts into one low monthly payment regardless of past credit. In most cases your monthly bills can be cut by as much as 50%. There is no credit check needed and no need to own your own home. Consolidate all those high interest accounts and save......

   Must have more than $1,000 in debt to consolidate. For complete information on our financial services HIT REPLY.

or send S.A.S.E. and email address to:

Internet Financial Services, Inc.
P.O. Box 1665
Peoria, IL. 61656

***FREE $10.00 CALLING CARD SENT TO EVERYBODY THAT REQUESTS MORE INFORMATION AND VISITS OUR WEB SITE.


----------------------- Headers --------------------------------
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Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 12:28:15 -0800 (PST)
To: John Young 
Subject: Re: Prediction: NAI will issue a "Clarification" about PGP      from  Europe
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 11:27 AM -0500 on 3/22/98, John Young wrote:

> You

>well.

Keewwwl...

So. John. Don't the trees look like stuffed animals this morning?

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga



-----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Kevlar 
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 16:01:09 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Rivest's Chaffing and Winnowing
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980322155953.0079b990@mail.smartlink.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Now I read about this before it was mentioned on this list, and wanted
to comment briefly upon it.

Although at first glance this appears to be a hopelessly ineffective
way of communicating (it requires double the information, plus MAC's),
It does have some interesting possibilities.

For instance... Rivest mentioned in his technical paper that you might
use this in a situtation where you are multiplexing two or more
streams of information, in which one persons "wheat" is another
persons "chaff"... This would elminate the need to generate random
"chaff", and therefore bring the ammount of wasted space WAY down... I
could see this in use in situtations like LAN's or intranets, where
bandwidth is not nearly as much of a concern because there is usally
an overabundance anyway.

Something else that occured to me while reading this tho... a major
flaw if implemented "out of the book"....

He mentions generating random MAC's... and this would be allright
because the chance of randomly generating a genuine MAC is 2**64, or
10**19, but that is unacceptable, as the law of advrages WILL catch up
to you eventualy. Therefore his second party adding chaff idea is
failable. Of corse, this is easliy remedied at run-time by checking to
see if the MAC that was just randomly generated is genuine, and
therefore unacceptable.

I hope to stimulate discussion on this subject, and welcome your
opinions about mine...

Peace.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.5.5 for non-commercial use 

iQA/AwUBNRWlqgbVu2P/8fhEEQLxAACbBTO08OT/uYnDPQ1dKJH0xaZi3ocAniXQ
Z0O3d1uKcvfLDcbTHPb6PTw2
=aJRQ
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

-Kevlar


Oh, I'm sorry... Was I not suposed to EXPORT STRONG CRYPTO?
print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo
"16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<>
)]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 15:32:31 -0800 (PST)
To: "'StanSquncr'" 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hi Stan,

Yeah.

Since the big powersupply transformer primary winding
is in _parallel_ with the AC power coming from the wall,
this inductor will transfer the spikes, etc to the
secondary winding and into the bridge rectifier, etc quite
nicely. But decent ripple prevention should also help out
here. Though this hasn't much to do with PC switchmode
powersupplies.

An inductor/capacitor spike filter that may be in UPS'
would have 2 large inductors in _series_ with the active
and neutral and high voltage capacitors in parallel with
both ends of the inductors across the active and neutral.
This is specifically designed as a low pass filter for
getting rid of spikes.

I don't think the SW supply would do it quite as well with
as much power handling, strength etc. I'd rather a great
big low pass filter designed for spike dampening doing the
deed than having my PC power supply bearing the brunt of it.

It's also an extra layer that is quite cheap.

Bye for now.

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	StanSquncr [SMTP:StanSquncr@aol.com]
> Sent:	Saturday, March 21, 1998 8:51 AM
> To:	Pearson Shane; spectre@anthrax.net; cypherpunks@toad.com
> Subject:	Re: UPSs
> 
> In a message dated 98-03-19 18:48:51 EST, Shane.Pearson@tafensw.edu.au
> writes:
> 
> << A simple low pass filter made of 2 large inductors and a
>  few high voltage capacitors will do the trick nicely. >>
> 
> Right.  The filtering that's already in the power-supply (except that
> the
> switching transformer isn't as big as an inductor as a normal
> old-style power
> transformer.
> 
> Stan




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: rdew@el.nec.com (Bob De Witt)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 14:53:58 -0800 (PST)
To: StanSquncr@aol.com
Subject: Re: UPSs
Message-ID: <199803232252.OAA08217@yginsburg.el.nec.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Stan,

Clearly you only considered a few of the semi-cons.  Others just stop
working, while still others pass anything above the manufacturer design
max.  Your lack of desire to learn indicates a possible reason why you 
don't seem to understand ...

At my age, I forget some ...  What is that old adage about leading a 
horse to water, but you can't make him read?  or something like that!

Bob De Witt,
rdew@el.nec.com
The views expressed herein are my own,
and are not attributable to any other
source, be it employer, friend or foe.


> From StanSquncr@aol.com Fri Mar 20 14:43:46 1998
> From: StanSquncr 
> Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 16:50:55 EST
> To: rdew@el.nec.com, spectre@anthrax.net, cypherpunks@toad.com
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Subject: Re: UPSs
> Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
> 
> In a message dated 98-03-20 16:04:24 EST, rdew@el.nec.com writes:
> 
> << If your surge protector is a semi-conductor, it probably will be 
>  self-limiting.  That is, it will reach a maximum block, and pass
>  whatever is above that.  >>
> 
> Yes, but what you fail to point out, is the reason it will pass everything, it
> will have been blown (shorted, most likely).
> 
> So, because you failed to point this out, I figure the rest of your response
> isn't worth responding to.
> 
> Stan
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Toto 
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 15:44:34 -0800 (PST)
To: CypherPunks 
Subject: Youwon'thave?To?Totokickaroundanymore...
Message-ID: <35170F43.2C65@sk.sympatico.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


sincethedeathofGomez,myunclehashadadrinkinhishandconstantly,exceptwhen
hehasdroppeditonhiskeyboard,fuckingitupandmakingitdostrangethings,suchas
nolongermakingspacesappearwhenhepressesthespacekey,whichisnormally
calledsomethingelse,however,Ican'ttellyouwhatitscalled,sincethekeyusedtospell
itdoesn'twork,either.
(hint,veavsi&vutthead,vadvoy-vadvoy-whatcha-gonna-do,whatchagonnadowhen
theycomeforyou?,iputthequestionmarkinvyhittingtherightenterkey...)
tousetheshiftkeyIhavetotypeanextraletter,sincetheshiftkey,leftone,doesadelete-
vackspacevevoreaddingtheshiftedcharacter.
thedeathofgomez,whichhappenedwhenthe?N?S?A-?C?I?A?(therightshiftkey
addsaquestionmarkveforeaddingtheshiftedcharacter)

writingthisislikewhatmyuncletellsmeavoutveingonlsd,hee-hee...
couldsomeonesendthisto-villg-at-microsoft.com,please,sinceican't
typeayou-know-what-inthecccolonfield?(iputthatquestionmarkinvyhitting
the?keywithoutdoingashiftkey--also,ifiguredoutthatthe'v'key,youknowwhich
oneimean,doesa'control-v',sinceittriestomakethecharacters'vold'wheni
hititvymistake.
andcoulddavesmithputthisonhissightasprologue-numverslash0.?(thenumver
onekeydoesn'tworkeither,vuticanputaquestionmarkattheendofasentence
andthenuseparenthesiswhilesavingakeystrokevecausethekeyvoardputs
the?inautomaticallywheniusetherightshiftkey.
itisreallyweirdtypingthisstuffwithakeyvoardthatdoesthingsthatarenotdone
thewaythatmyvrainandfingersarewired.ivetthatificouldputspacesinthis,
thateveryonewouldthinkthatjohnyoungwaswritingit.

anyway,ifanyofyouarereally,reallystoned,sostillreadingthisvecauseyou
understanditanddon'tseeanythingoddavoutit,couldyoudoakeywordsearch
inyahoomountaindeworsomeothersearchengineforaprogramthatletsa
personcustomizethekeyvoardsothattheycanusedifferentkeystomakethe
charactersthatdon'tworkonthiskeyvoard,andsenditvyemailto-toto-at-the
addresswhereallthespamvullshitandcrapolatothecypherpunkslistcomes
from?--iamaskingyoutodothisvecausehefuckedupmycomputer,2.
myuncleisjustanoldvrokendowndrunkenasshole,vuticanfixhiscomputer
ifigetakeyvoardcustomizingprogram,sothanksifyoucansendit.

ifsomeonecoulddothis,theniwouldpromisetoquitaskingthecypherpunks
womeniftheyarewearingpanties--i'mlying,vuti'mjustakid...
ok,vuticouldofferyouavlow-jovifyoudoit,fromoneofvianca'schild-girl
apprentices,althoughtheywillkillmewhentheyreadthis...

ok,i'mgoingnow,vutihopesomeonewillsendmeaprogramthatwill
helpmefixmyuncle'scomputer,evenifhewilluseittospamyourmailing
listwithstuffthatyoushouldvelisteningto,exceptthathemakesitsothat
youcan'tunderstandwhathe'ssayingunlessyoureallydoputacorkin
yourassholesothatyoucanquitthinkinglikeasheeple.

thanks,
humangus-peter
?(anotherguywhosendsyoushitthatyouwishpeoplewouldstopsending
toyourmailinglist,eventhoughithinkyouguysarecool,eventhegrouchy
onesliketimmayandthespookyguyslikekentcrispinwhowouldprovavly
veacircleofeunuchsguyiftheyweren'twatchinghimsoclose--he'sstill
alive,likedalethorn.?)
isn'titcoolhowiautomaticallygetaquestionmarkveforetheparenthesis,and
canmakeaquestionmarkwithoutusingtheshiftkey?
pps-ifyoudon'tunderstandsemiotics,thentherearekidsinsaskatchewan
whoaresmarterthanyou,evenifyouknowavoutplutoniumdecayratesand
wheretheyellowwiregoes.
i'llquitveforeyouthinki'mascrazyasmyuncle.
ppps-i'malwaysaskingpeoplewhopostfrom?A?(h?)?O?Liftheyarewearing
panties,vuttheydon'tgetthejoke,andi'mnotsurethatido,either,vuti'mgoing
tokeepondoingit.
pppps-anarchistusedeltekeys,they'reimmortalcypherpunks...





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Toto 
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 15:54:39 -0800 (PST)
To: Bob De Witt 
Subject: Re: UPSs
In-Reply-To: <199803232252.OAA08217@yginsburg.el.nec.com>
Message-ID: <3517119E.41AC@sk.sympatico.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Bob De Witt wrote:
> Clearly you only considered a few of the semi-cons.  Others just stop
> working, while still others pass anything above the manufacturer design
> max.  Your lack of desire to learn indicates a possible reason why you
> don't seem to understand ...

THEFIRSTCOMPUTERSYSTEMTHATMYUNCLEINSTALLED,LIGHTNINGHITANDITSMOKEDTHE
UPSANDTHECOMPUTERWASOKAFTERWARDS.
THENEXTUPSTHATHESMOKEDWASWHENHEWASREDOINGTHEPLUGINSTUFFANDHEPLUGEDTHE
UPSINTOITSELF,ANDHESAIDITWASLIKINGSTICKINGYOURDICKINYOUROWNASSHOLE,
ANDITSPITOUTPUFFSOFWHITESMOKEANDDIEDOFDIGITAL,SELF-INFLICTEDAIDS.
MARTIN,THEMADSCIENTISTFIXEDITFORHIMWITHFIFTYCENTSWORTHOFPARTSFROM
RADIOSHACK,SINCETHEREARESTILLAFEWPEOPLEWHOCANFIXTHINGSWITHOUT
FORMATTINGTHEHARDDRIVEANDREINSTALLINGWINDOWS,LIKETHECROOKSWHO
HAVEACOMPUTERCOMPANYANDSTILLDON'TKNOWANYTHINGTODOWITHCOMPUTERS
DO.

HUMANGUS-PETER?(WHOCAN'TPUTSPACESINWHATHEWRITESCAUSEHISUNCLE
ISASORRYDRUNKWHOSPILLSSCOTCHANDCOKEONTHEPARTOFTHECOMPUTERWHICH
MAKESWORDSAPPEARWHENYOUSTRIKETHEKEYS,HOWEVER,ICAN'TTELLYOUWHAT
PARTTHATIS,SINCETHEKEYUSEDTOSPELLITDOESN'TWORKANYMORE.
PS-I'MDRINKINGMYUNCLE'SSCOTCH,HOWEVER,THATISNOTWHYTHISMESSAGE
ISSOWEIRD,IT'SONACCOUNTOFHIMDRINKINGSCOTCH,NOTME...





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSquncr 
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 15:30:57 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: UPSs (and downs ;-) )
Message-ID: <700c3b7a.3516ebbd@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


In a message dated 98-03-23 17:53:21 EST, rdew@el.nec.com writes:

<< Stan,
 
 Clearly you only considered a few of the semi-cons. >>

Which ones?  What do you call a nun that's had a sex-change operation?

A trans-sister, what else?  :-)


<< Others just stop working >>

You pass enough current through any semi-conductor, it will short, I do
believe.  And, see below.


<< while still others pass anything above the manufacturer design max. >>

It will short, then it will fry so bad because of the heat from that, that it
will eventually open.


<< Your lack of desire to learn ... >>

'Straw-man' argument.


<< ... indicates a possible reason why you don't seem to understand ... >>

I'll allow our fellow cypherpunks (in particular, the ones with enough guts to
use a name instead of 'anom' :-) ) to decide for themselves if they think I
understand or not.

 
<< At my age, I forget some ... >>

So what's your age, the tube age?  So, you don't really know anything about
semi-conductors, do you?   ;-)

Stan,
Stan and the Sequencers
http://members.aol.com/StanSquncr/

Brave Combo on our gig in Houston this Friday night (their website, newletter
page, Hot Dates) - "This show will feature a surprise guest opening the show.
Don't miss it. Seriously, don't miss it. ... " 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSquncr 
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 19:12:54 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Bill Gates the AntiChrist?
Message-ID: <8a19a03a.3517248f@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Sorry "nobody", your buddy Pat Robertson is the anti-Christ, therefore, it
ain't Bill.  And if it isn't Pat Robertson, it's your boss Rep. Newt Gingrich
("King(OfThe)Rich").  ;-)

In a message dated 98-03-23 19:11:31 EST, a real "nobody" writes:

<< "He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free
 andslave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, so
 that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the
 name of the beast or the number of his name. This calls for wisdom. If
 anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it
 is man's number. His number is 666 ."    ....Revelation 13:16-18 >>

Former President Ronald Reagan (other wise known as the 'piss-test President')
bought a house with the address of 666, as I understand.

Stan
=======
"You say you're supposed to be nice to the Episcopalians and the Presbyterians
and the Methodists and this, that, and the other thing. Nonsense. I don't have
to be nice to the spirit of the anti-Christ." (Pat Robertson - The 700 Club,
January 14, 1991)




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Six 
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 20:11:00 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Prologue 11/0 -- SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS !!!
Message-ID: <351732E1.7254@sk.sympatico.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Prologue 10/0 -- SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS!!!
----------------------------------------------

[Author's Nephew Note: My uncle started writing this chapter, which is
 the first one he actually wrote in his own autobiography, since it was
 started by god-only-knows-who (TM) but I am going to finish it, since
 space-bar aliens stole his drugs and his 'b' key, etc., and I know
 everything he knows, only I'm not going to sugar-coat it, since I'm
 just a kid and I want to have a life, which I'm not going to have
 if you old guys and broads keep fucking up the world the way you
 have been doing so far.
 If you don't like what I have to say, then it's just because you are
 too comfortable in your beliefs and your position in life to risk
 upsetting the apple-cart in order to really support the people and
 belief-systems that you know are the right ones to make the world
 a place where everyone will really be free and have rights, even if
 you have to lose some of the things you have in order for others
 to be able to have a chance to compete with you, even if they
 don't have big guns and nuclear weapons.
 Sorry I have to speak honestly, but we're all fucked if things don't
 change real soon, so that everyone can contribute to rEvolution.
 Thanks.]
[p.s. - I still can't use my browser, but I can use email, so send
 my uncle a keyboard-fixer pointer or program, if you can. Thanks.]
[p.p.s. - If you are sober and straight, then you might have noticed
 that my post "Youwon'thaveTototokcikaroundanymore" to the cypherpunks
 list spelled 'keyboard' correctly, even though I claimed that the
 'b'/'v' key didn't work. It does, in fact, work, about one time in
 ten. The fact that it worked intitially, in order to make it look
 like I am crazy, like my uncle, and just making all of this shit
 up, is either due to Murphy's Law, or to the ongoing plot by the
 Evil One and the Forces of Darkness against Scotch drinkers.]

[Prologue 10/0, proper:] 

Army of One:
  Ted Kaczynski

Army of Sundry:
  Timothy McVeigh

Army of God:
  Dr. William Michael Bray

Army of Dog:
Dr. Wm. Michael Denney:

  Anyone who has followed the Fusillade Follies with even a modicum of 
interest is  likely  to have noted that, in Guerilla Operations, the old 
adage, "There's safety in numbers.", does not apply.

  The Uno-bomber was successful for a period spanning decades quite 
simply  because he lived and acted within a sphere of individual 
anarchism which approached being as exemplary a model as is possible to 
aspire to in the current social and governmental environment of our 
times.
  Most importantly, he exhibited a level of self-reliance which allowed 
him to avoid  many of the governmental regulations and societal 
entrapments which are used to monitor, categorize and  attach physical, 
mental, emotional, and spiritual footprints to the majority of the 
Sheepletariat herded in the comfortable feeding pens provided for them
by those whose ultimate goal is to clip their wool and eat their meat.

  In the end, TK opted to forgoe the immortality of infamy for a turn 
upon the public soapbox which elevates us above the maddening crowd and 
into the limelight for our fifteen minutes of fame, and which is then 
dismantled in order to build the crucifix upon which our carcass is 
publically raized. (This, however, is merely an illusion propogated by 
the rulers to please the masses. The truth of the matter is, the end
we eventually come to is inevitably the result of being hoisted on our 
own petard.)

  His success in promoting his agenda over a considerable length of time 
was in avoiding the attachment, which is so natural for us, of our 
physical, mental and emotional self-image to the herd which surrounds 
us.
  Too little, and too late, do we usually stop to make our own 
evaluation as to where the  herd is headed--be it into the pen, over the 
cliff, or into the railway cars. It  is only when we attempt to leave 
the herd that we encounter the teeth of the dogs that the masters have 
set upon us, to keep us from straying from the destiny the butchers 
have preordained for us from the moment of our bleating birth.
  Those Sheeple who manage to separate from the herd usually do so,  not 
by *bolting* from the pack, but by *wandering* from the pack, whether it 
be out of ignorance or cunning. The same applies to the Wolverines in 
Sheeples clothing.

"Picture a weasel -- and most of us can do that, for we have met that 
little demon of destruction, that small atom of insensate courage, that 
symbol of slaughter, sleeplessness, and tireless, incredible activity -- 
picture that scrap of demoniac fury, multiply that mite some fifty 
times, and you have the likeness of a Wolverine." 
~	Ernest Thompson Seton 1906

  Timothy McVeigh succeeded in 

[OK, here's where *I* start, OK?]

  Timothy McVeigh succeeded in his attempt to give America a wake-up
call, due to the fact that he was the next step above Kaczynski, who
kept his own counsel, as Shakespeare would say.
  McVeigh 'kept it in the family.'

  TM shared his true goal/plan only with members of his immediate
(conceptual) family, such as Terry Nichols.
  He shared the concepts which he believed in with the members of
his extended family, such as those at Elohim City, which was why
the BATF, who had their spies in the encampment, were able to follow
and support TM's plan, and keep themselves alive by not being at
the Murrah Federal Building when the fertilizer/shit hit the fan,
despite the fact that they thought they could 'save the day' at the
last minute with a partial knowledge of McVeigh's plans.
 (The fact is, TM knew full well that 'the watchers' were keeping track
  of his actions/plans, so he purposely obstruficated them in order to
  give the BATF reason to believe that they could 'ride to the
  rescue' at the last moment.)


  Dr. William Michael Bray, an early follower of the underground
movement which resulted in the formation of the Circle of Eunuchs,
made the decision to take the concepts involved and move them into
a MeatSpace arena which would allow him to be a big fish in a little
pond--the arena of Fundamental Christian anti-abortion rhetoric.
  Dr. Bray promoted MeatSpace concepts which addressed the right of
individuals to make their own decisions as to what actions were
justified in countering the effects of that which they saw as evil
in the society around them. He was hung upon society's cross for
this, though they never quite managed to fully 'nail' him to it.

  What Dr. William Michael Bray was able to accomplish was basically
due to the fact that the concepts he expresed were valid, although
he failed to mention that each individual should first seek to explore
alternatives to first-strike/active-violence before acting, in case
there was an alternative route that they were capable of taking which
would be capable of achieving similar effects while doing a minimum
of damage to those who they believed must be prevented from continuing
their abuse of their fellow humans.
 (i.e. - Before acting upon the exhortations of TM [Tim May, Timothy 
McVeigh, TruthMonger], they should consider the exhortations of Blanc,
who is currently trying to distance herself, as much as possible, from
the sundry death threats being sent to BadBillyG by various entities
who have hacked Toto's account since his InterNet account password
was placed on the mailing lists of various hackers' confereneces.)

  A recent 'NightLine' TV show dealing with the 'Army of God' made
note of  the  fact that much of their success was due to the fact
that their actions were 'senseless' (hard to quantify, therefore hard
to trace, or attriute to a specific individual).
  In essence, the reason that the MeatSpace 'Army of God' has been so
effective is because they exist only in their own minds. The AOG
consists of individuals who have read and accepted the writings/works
of those in the anti-abortion movement, and have taken it upon themself
to take independent actions to interfere with things which they see
as being contrary to what they see as right/righteous.


  Dr. William Michael Denney, who was recently castrated from a company
which he founded, Basis Incorporated, by Prologic (an NSA/CIA company-
killing entity), also recognized the power of small gorilla units to
be able of acting according to their own conscience, without making
themself a visible target to those whose life revolves around hammering
down the nail that sticks up, even if their skin-color is not yellow,
their eyes are round, and they have never received an email from
Tim May which includes the words, "chop,chop."

  Dr. Denney, Gomez to those within the Magic Circle, had the character
and foresight to act on the dictates of his own conscience without ever
indulging in braggadacio in regard to his many accomplishments in 
subtly opposing the ongoing march of dark and evil technological forces
whose aim has always been to bring humankind under the thumb of the
bits and bytes which the Evil One has appointed to rule over the
independent, chaotic, evolution of humankind (formerly known as
'mankind,' before those 'uppity women' demanded the right to vote).

[The following is a note that my uncle made in regard to the
 direction that this chapter would take. You already know what
 he is referring to, although I will explain it for those of you
 who are George Carlin fans, and refuse to acknowledge any piece
 of inbred/inherent information/understanding until he has put
 it upon one of his comedy albums, or on an HBO special.]

{Global InterNet of individuals/Way to win war against Statism/NWO is
 to create maximum entropy/the chaos of semiotic rEvolution.--sog}

*** OK, the 'Army of Dog' is born!!! *** 

Army of Dog:

  Read that crapola that my uncle spammed to the CypherPunks
mailing list about BioSemiotics.
  Yeah, I know--it will hurt your head, but you really need
to understand this shit, since the advertising executives who
gave you Crest toothpaste and Ronnie RayGuns have evolved their
mind-control activities to encompass the new technologies being
opened up by the marriage of quantum physics and post-Darwinian
evolution theories.

  In essence, those who understand that TV was/is the 'opiate of
the people' have a 'cubic centimeter of chance' to understand 
that the InterNet is the 'evolution of the people.'
  If you truly understand this biosemiotic concept, then you
also have a remote chance of understanding that being *active*
in regard to the interactive extension of the mind-numbing
medium/opiate of TV enables you to participate in the true
rEvolution which will ultimately decide whether humankind is
an active particpant in the unfolding of the universe around
them, or merely a pawn in the cold, unfeeling evolution of
artificial intelligence which is pulling out to pass in the
fast lane of the Information Highway because it does not 
suffer from the same emotional and spiritual constraints of
the human entities who gave birth to it.


"The number of possible solutions for selection to scrutinise, and the
subtlety of the
communicational interactions, will tend to produce a no-win situation.
As a result 
selection cannot really 'measure' the stakes of single players
(individuals, demes, or 
species) in the game, but it could still influence the choice of the
game itself. Plays, 
not players, are selected for."
~	Joseph Hoffmeyer


The Bottom Line: Whose play are you backing?

  Statism is not the enemy. rEvolution is not the enemy.
  The true enemy is our tendency to listen to the external 
voices which claim authority over our beliefs, values and
actions, as opposed to listening to the inner voice which
tells us when we are being true to the role which we were
born/destined to play upon our entry into this physical 
sphere which constitutes the 'gamewad' which we all must 
successfully transverse in order to move to the next level 
of 'play' in the universal scheme of things.

  The Statists are attempting to prevent the forward-reaching
rEvolutionaries from creating so much Chaos that there is no
way to steer the course of future human evolution.
  The rEvolutionaries are attempting to prevent the Statists
from writing the present in concrete, to the extent that those
whose goal in life is to fly too close to the sun will never
get off the ground.


  The Army of God represents every MeatSpace mentality which
strives to live by its limited, physically-oriented beliefs,
and force everyone else to do the same.
  Their glory is that they act upon those beliefs, even though
it goes contrary to the statist ethics and morals of those who
believe that the key to survival lies in not rocking the boat,
no matter how badly it is leaking.

  The Army of Dog represents every CyberSpace NetiZen who
strives to resist the imposition of MeatSpace mentality,
rules and laws upon a new social and governmental paridigm
which goes far beyond the physically limited rules and
regulations designed to enforce geographical ethics and
values upon a populace which is evolving beyond MeatSpace
limitations which Digital Dinosaurs are attempting to 
impose on the children of the Digital rEvolution.
  Their glory is that they act upon those beliefs, even though
it goes contrary to the statist ethics and morals of those who
believe that the key to survival lies in not rocking the boat,
no matter how badly it is leaking.

  The Army of Dog, like the Circle of Eunuchs, is an 
unstructured entity which is built upon the foundation
of 'A Thousand Points of Fight.'
  The result is an army of CyberSoldiers who are capable
of acting upon their own initiative, according to their
own ethics and values, without limiting their actions to
be consistent with a static view of ethics/morality defined
by an averaging of the Sheeple mentality with the views
espoused by the MainStream Press.

  Dave Foreman and Earth First exemplify an organization
of individuals who committed themselves to pursue a
commonly-held goal independently of one another, in ways
which reflected the individual's own talents, beliefs,
and self-proclaimed responsibilities to themselves and to
their fellow humans.
  CyberSpace, which represents the evolution of MeatSpace,
will fare no better than our current geophysical system,
unless CyberWarriors arise to guide and influence its
evolution in a manner that reflects the right of every
NetiZen to freely express their persona, character,
beliefs and personal ethics, without censorship or
repression from those who hold different beliefs and
values.

  The rEvolution is NOW!

  The key to moving the rEvolution of humankind forward
into a new paridigm that encompasses a Global Information
Democracy lies in instituting a Joe SixPack rEvolutionary
Recruitment Drive.
  Jane and Joe MeatSpace need to be unindated with information
which contadicts the mainstream psychobabble which they are
subjected to, each and every day, by those who wish to maintain
the status quo (which was designed to keep the Sheeple in
subjection to the rule/authority of those who occupy a
privileged position in our current society).

  If you are not promoting and taking part in the rEvolution
(which will decide the biosemiotic future of man, mind and
technology), then you are part of the breath-analyzer problem,
instead of the alcoholic solution...

[This last concept is undoubtedly the result of my having
 imbibed a bit too much of the hair of my uncle's Dog.
 "You're in the Army, now,
  You're in the Army, now,
  You'll never get rich, you son-of-a-bitch,
  You're in the Army now!"]

 (End of Bottle)





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 13:38:23 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Privacy Development Project
Message-ID: <199803232138.WAA23825@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Developer & Consulting Positions Available

Software development firm focusing on Internet privacy and anonymity tools is
looking for developers and consultants.  Applicants should be interested in the
possibility of relocation or travel as development is being done outside of the
United States.  Applicants will be applying to join an aggressive team, where
intelligence, entrepreneurial spirit and technology skills are valued and
rewarded.  Positions offer competitive salary and benefits along with stock
options and bonuses.

Interested applicants are asked to forward your c.v. by e-mail to:

anonjobs@nym.alias.net


Positions Offered:
------------------

Project Consultant - Anonymous Technologies and Cryotography
************************************************************

The ideal candidate should be very familiar with anonymous remailers (Type I,
Type II, Nymservers), anonymous cash (Digicash), Blind Signatures, Public Key
Cryptography and Cryptanalysis.   A detailed understanding of anonymous networks
and mailer systems will be required to help review the security model of
companies system.

Experience with C/C++ and software development projects on Solaris, Linux,
Windows 95 also a definite asset.  Experience on implementation of Cryptography
libraries in software design also a definite asset.

Software Engineers - Windows 95
*******************************

Successful candidates will have extensive development experience in the Windows
environment, good organizational skills and be very success driven.  Good
knowledge of Visual C++, MFC and OOP a requirement.  Interest in privacy,
security and cryptography a definite asset.

Software Engineers - Unix (Solaris/Linux)
*****************************************

Successful candidates will have extensive development experience in the Solaris
or Linux environment, good organizational skills and be very success driven. 
Good knowledge of C++, Internet protocols (HTTP, FTP, SMTP, NNTP), X.509
Certificate authority servers (LDAP) and experience with cryptography are all
considered definite assets.   The applicant should have a serious interest in
technologies as they relate to Internet privacy, security and cryptography.


        





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSquncr 
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 20:13:28 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Or is it Pat Robertson?
Message-ID: <59899767.351732c3@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Sorry about the duplication, but I just decyphered something (is decyphering
ok on a 'cypher' list? :-) ) -

In a message dated 98-03-23 22:46:09 EST, StanSquncr@aol.com writes:

<< "You say you're supposed to be nice to the Episcopalians and the
Presbyterians
 and the Methodists and this, that, and the other thing. Nonsense. I don't
have
 to be nice to the spirit of the anti-Christ." (Pat Robertson - The 700 Club,
 January 14, 1991) >>

You see, add 14 + 1 + 9 + 9 + 1 and you get 34.

700 - 34 is, guess what - 666!

I guess that proves it!  ;-)

Stan




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 21:31:36 -0800 (PST)
To: StanSquncr 
Subject: Re: Or is it Pat Robertson?
In-Reply-To: <59899767.351732c3@aol.com>
Message-ID: <199803240530.AAA09314@users.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In <59899767.351732c3@aol.com>, on 03/23/98 
   at 11:12 PM, StanSquncr  said:

>Sorry about the duplication, but I just decyphered something (is
>decyphering ok on a 'cypher' list? :-) ) -

>In a message dated 98-03-23 22:46:09 EST, StanSquncr@aol.com writes:

><< "You say you're supposed to be nice to the Episcopalians and the
>Presbyterians
> and the Methodists and this, that, and the other thing. Nonsense. I
>don't have
> to be nice to the spirit of the anti-Christ." (Pat Robertson - The 700
>Club,
> January 14, 1991) >>

>You see, add 14 + 1 + 9 + 9 + 1 and you get 34.

>700 - 34 is, guess what - 666!

>I guess that proves it!  ;-)

Hmmm Louis Farakan school of Number Theory

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/esecure.html                        
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: OS/2: Not just another pretty program loader!

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3a-sha1
Charset: cp850
Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000

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g/QyXmn2bs9WZ+3WYwDZlzvirKPa1LuDK85zUGGemMPbZQg2y7PSkyIi3F9kCqoC
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 00:13:30 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Computer Expert Witness Needed *Immediately*
In-Reply-To: <01BD568F.52B445A0.slates@inreach.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980324000612.007ec9f0@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 07:09 PM 3/23/98 -0800, "Roger D. Slates II"  wrote,
on another list:
>A computer expert is needed immediately to testify as an expert witness in
>an ongoing criminal matter in Federal District Court in Los Angeles.  Kevin
>Mitnick is seeking a highly credentialed expert in computer security,
>telecommunications, system and network administration to testify in this
>highly publicized computer "hacking" case.
>This will be a groundbreaking case and is expected to attract significant
>media coverage. Testimony will be required as early as March 30, 1998 in
>Los Angeles, California.  Further testimony will be needed at trial, later
>this year.  Expert witness fees will be paid by the federal court.
>Qualified candidates must have an advanced degree and be knowledgeable in
>DOS, Windows 3.ll, Unix (SunOs & Solaris), VAX/VMS, and Internet
>operations.  Experience with cellular telephone networks is a plus.
> Previous expert testimony and/or publication are preferred.
>Qualified candidates, please contact Mr. Mitnick through his appointed
>defense counsel, Donald C. Randolph, Esq. at (310) 395-7900 or write to him
>at:  Donald C. Randolph, Esq., Randolph & Levanas, 1717 4th Street, Third
>Floor, Santa Monica, CA 90401-3319.  Email address is:
>randlev@worldnet.att.net
>
>
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 15:29:51 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: AntiChrist Rules
Message-ID: <199803232329.AAA09939@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



---------- Forwarded from [argo@death.com] ---------

For those of you fellas who still have the OLD excel 95 (not office 97),
try this out :


1. open a new file

2. scroll down until you see row 95

3. click on the row 95 button, this highlights the whole row

4. press tab, to move to the second column

5. now, move your mouse and click on help THEN about Microsoft excel

6. press ctrl-alt-shift and click on the tech support button simultaneously

7. A WINDOW WILL APPEAR, TITLE : THE HALL OF TORTURED SOULS

   This is really eerie okay...it has a doom style format and you can
walk all around the hall...and on the sides of the walls are the names
of the tortured souls...


8. NOW WALK UP THE STAIRS AND THEN COME BACK DOWN, FACE THE BLANK WALK
AND THEN TYPE IN EXCELKFA this will open the blank wall to reveal
another secret passage, walk through the passage and DO NOT fall off,
when you get to the end, you will see something really really eerie...

At this point in time, countless witnesses all over the world have
verified this point...it's really an eye opener. It could be a joke by
MS programmers ,or is it?


Wouldn't be surprised if Bill Gates was "The Antichrist", after all
it,was already foretold in the Bible that someone powerful would rise
up and lead the world to destruction.  And Bill Gates definitely have
that kind of power in his hands. More than 80% of the world's
computers run on Windows and DOS (including those at Pentagon!)  If
all his products have some kind of small program embedded (like this
Hall of Tortured Souls) that can give him control, setting off nuclear
arsenals, creating havoc in security systems, financial systems all
over the world,etc......all from his headquarters isn't a far off
reality! Just using Internet Explorer may just allow him to map out
what you have on your computer bit by bit each time you log on.
Perhaps the end times are near and this is just a tip of the iceberg!?

"He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free
andslave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, so
that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the
name of the beast or the number of his name. This calls for wisdom. If
anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it
is man's number. His number is 666 ."    ....Revelation 13:16-18


Something for you to think about.

An eerie E-mail for everybody to think about...

The Bible, in the Book of Revelation says that without the sign of the
beast one would not be able to buy, sell, do business
transactions,etc.....  and

My question to you now is this..... Is Internet now a necessity in
doing business?  The Internet also bears the sign....

Note that the Internet is also commonly known as the World Wide Web or WWW..
...

One other way we write W is V/   (VI), so .....

              W   W   W

              VI  VI  VI

              6   6   6


This gives me something to ponder upon ... Isn't everything going
towards the Internet? (i.e., buying / selling goods, business
transactions) Isn't Microsoft always on the move to have a monopoly
when it comes to software technology? And now the Internet?

Revelation also says that the mark of the beast will be carried on
one's Hand and one's forehead.....If the Internet would indeed be the
sign of the beast aren't we all starting to carry it on our hands and
foreheads???  Screens (forehead) and make use of the mouse (hand) ???

Are things finally falling into place or are we just letting our
imagination run?

Remember, the devil came to cheat, steal, and to destroy......... so
be VIGILANT!!!!  About Bill Gates and Microsoft. PROOF that Bill Gates
is the Devil:

The real name of "the" Bill Gates is William Henry Gates
III. Nowadays, he is known as Bill Gates (III), where III means the
order of third (3rd).

By converting the letters of his current name to the ASCII-values and
adding his (III),you get the following:

      B  66

      I  73

      L  76

      L  76

      G  71

      A  65

      T  84

      E  69

      S  83

      I   1

      I   1

      I   1

  ---------------

        666 !!!!        THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST.......

Some might think ask, "How did Bill Gates get so powerful?"
Coincidence?  Or just the beginning of mankind's ultimate and total
enslavement?

Before you decide, consider the following:

      MS-DOS 6.21

 77+83+45+68+79+83+32+54+46+50+49 = 666

      WINDOWS95

 87+73+78+68+79+87+83+57+53+1= 666

Coincidence?  You decide...."To agree or to not agree with the WWW or
the Beast", is not the question.  What if the WWW is the 666? Or Bill
Gates be the Beast?

What will you do?? Cancel subscriptions to the Internet?  Resign from
Microsoft? Set out a campaign against Bill Gates in the Internet? Shut
down all Windows95 forever?  It will not do you any good.....

Think about all this and pray, pray really hard, or
else......... 
Never Stop Believing....






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: lcs Mixmaster Remailer 
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 17:00:51 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Cryptologic...
Message-ID: <19980324010007.27399.qmail@nym.alias.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Has anyone ever taken a look at Cryptologic (www.cryptologic.com)?  They make Internet casino software and processed 
500 million dollars in bets last year with their 'Proprietary' encryption algorithm for security and their own ecash system.

You'd think with that much money being transmitted over the net with an untested algorithm, someone might just 
test the situation for them....

Maybe someone already has, and doesn't feel like making it public?

Who knows...






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSquncr 
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 23:08:54 -0800 (PST)
To: whgiii@invweb.net
Subject: Re: Or is it Pat Robertson?
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


In a message dated 98-03-24 00:31:09 EST, whgiii@invweb.net writes:

<< >You see, add 14 + 1 + 9 + 9 + 1 and you get 34.
 
 >700 - 34 is, guess what - 666!
 
 >I guess that proves it!  ;-)
 
 Hmmm Louis Farakan school of Number Theory >>

Hmmm, didn't seem to bother you when the same theory was used against Bill
Gates!  Not surprized, the response came from, you guessed it cypher's,
another paranoid "Know-nothing" -

<< -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
 Version: 2.6.3a-sha1
 Charset: cp850
 Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000
 
 iQCVAwUBNRdFpo9Co1n+aLhhAQFDpgP8CEFgqntvKfNWWXuPgo0M8pyvYMudl51p
 g/QyXmn2bs9WZ+3WYwDZlzvirKPa1LuDK85zUGGemMPbZQg2y7PSkyIi3F9kCqoC
 PLOnCW1ft2dbmiaRZxqbR6LcTU5Ti24XZoe70du0nz6M5vw8vPVW96ZCx0W9Vt2r
 DXkeg20YFYQ=
 =a5pE
 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >>

Stan




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mixmaster 
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 05:37:21 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Stan the Asshole
Message-ID: <199803241301.FAA24628@sirius.infonex.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Stan is an asshole, an annoyance on this list. I've 
killfiled anything with his email address in any 
header. I suggest everyone do the same. When he gets 
no responses to anything he posts, he will eventually 
go away, probably to where "Liberals Go To Die." If 
you encourage him, I won't see your responses.  I 
don't wade through the blizzard of this list to have 
to wipe splashes of airhead liberal shit out of my 
eyes at every other step.

GodILoveFiltersMonger II





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 03:44:01 -0800 (PST)
To: StanSquncr 
Subject: Re: Or is it Pat Robertson?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199803241143.GAA11984@users.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Boundary..3990.1071713782.multipart/signed"

--Boundary..3990.1071713782.multipart/signed
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In , on 03/24/98 
   at 02:08 AM, StanSquncr  said:

>In a message dated 98-03-24 00:31:09 EST, whgiii@invweb.net writes:

><< >You see, add 14 + 1 + 9 + 9 + 1 and you get 34.
> 
> >700 - 34 is, guess what - 666!
> 
> >I guess that proves it!  ;-)
> 
> Hmmm Louis Farakan school of Number Theory >>

>Hmmm, didn't seem to bother you when the same theory was used against
>Bill Gates!  Not surprized, the response came from, you guessed it
>cypher's, another paranoid "Know-nothing" -

Yes Stan and you are here to "save" us all.

Twit.

-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/esecure.html                        
---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: OS/2: The choice of the next generation.


--Boundary..3990.1071713782.multipart/signed
Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="pgp00005.pgp"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="pgp00005.pgp"
Content-Description: "PGP signature"

LS0tLS1CRUdJTiBQR1AgTUVTU0FHRS0tLS0tClZlcnNpb246IDIuNi4zYS1z
aGExCkNvbW1lbnQ6IFJlZ2lzdGVyZWRfVXNlcl9FLVNlY3VyZV92MS4xYjFf
RVMwMDAwMDAKCmlRQ1ZBd1VBTlJlZEVJOUNvMW4rYUxoaEFRRTdFUVAvWG5R
bkRubmdMbGRBN2RMdmhyRU1WQ2hsZThqV2FzRzQKMXE0a0Zwejh0R0JHMTVX
a1IxeER5WUVvRDV0ZmgxZEFwL211V2tuMTBxN09GRHZRZlpqNkxNY1NrTjFG
OGo4NApTakxhbzNKRDEzeHlibGtGUS92cHJjQTBCS3FGQlM2Q3IzLzJXUlJJ
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LS0tLUVORCBQR1AgTUVTU0FHRS0tLS0t
--Boundary..3990.1071713782.multipart/signed--



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: aim@cysnet.net
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 07:17:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: FASTEST / BEST EXTRACTORS YET !
Message-ID: <199803241517.HAA13896@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



The three new programs that are sweeping the industry.........

HURRICANE..Extremely fast.This extractor goes to major search engines (you can 
pick from a list of 10 of the most popular search engines) and conducts a search by 
keyword or keywords. It then spiders the web pages that come up as search results 
extracting the email addresses and saving them in a plain text format. You can define 
how deep the search is to be. You can filter out addresses such as those with 
webmaster or admin. You can use additional filters to have the software only include 
url's containing certain keywords. It can also eliminate  certain url's with specified 
keywords. This makes for some very tight targeting. The cost of Hurricane is $ 250  
but scroll down to see the package deal.

                       For a demo of Hurricane call toll free 800-942-7913
The demo will work showing you how fast and accurate the software is but you will 
not be able to save or use the addresses collected.


GEO SNAKE - This is a targeted list builder that could also be used to collect 
general addresses. You input a city and state and hit the start button, kick back and 
watch it collect. Quite fast. Easy to use. The cost of GEO SNAKE is $250.00

                       For A Demo of Geo Snake call toll free 800-942-7913

The demo will let you see how fast and easy it is to use but it will not save or let you 
use the addresses collected.
Note: Please read the help file in that it is a bit tricky inserting the name of a city in the 
program. First select a state and then go to options then search then add and then 
enter the name of the city or cities you want to search for email addresses in.


NEWS SLEUTH - This software extracts email addresses from newsgroup postings 
by keyword. It targets. Very fast and easy to use. This software has a number of 
useful options to help you get the exact results you want so reading the help file is 
recommended. The demo will allow you to see how fast and easy it is to use but will 
not
allow you to save or use the addresses collected. Cost of News Sleuth is $250.00
                       For a Demo of News Sleuth call 800-942-7913

      
Hurricane, Geo Snake & News Sleuth - all for $600.00
Call today!!  or fax us at  732-367-2229

  






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 07:31:32 -0800 (PST)
To: newshour@pbs.org
Subject: McKinney fax
Message-ID: <3517CF2A.1880@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Tuesday 3/24/98 7:14 AM

Fax

Cynthia McKinney
124 Cannon Building
Washington, DC 20515
Office: (202)225-1605
Fax: (202)226-0691
http://www.house.gov/mckinney/

Dear Representative McKinney:

PURPOSE of this fax is to verify whether or not you received
our attached certified [Z 216 838 966] return receipt letter 
dated Thursday 3/12/98 7:34 AM with enclosures

REASON is that the green Domestic Return Receipt card was
returned to the Albuquerque Ed Dorado postal substation on
Friday March 20 with no signatures or date of delivery.

Postal employee Steve filled out a yellow tracer for item Z 216
838 966 and posted it.

A federal employee in Washington DC following this  matter
on Internet at 

   http://www.aci.net/kalliste

and

  http://www.jya.com

phoned on March 16 to advise that the US federal government
strategy is to provoke a citizen in the hope the citizen will do
something illegal.

Then the government will prosecute that citizen.

The attached petition for writ of prohibition dated Thursday 
3/18/98 addressed to Antonin Scalia illustrates a desperate
attempt to entrap us.
 
NM district judge Don Svet attempted to limit discovery in our
lawsuit seen at jya.com.  

Svet's ORDER violates the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure.

Svet attempts to sanction us for violating his illegal ORDER.

Bureaucrats, court clerks, and judges not who do not respond 
to lawfully submitted requests create the impression that there 
is no administrative or legal remedy left for a citizen in the US.

Government lawyers frequently, if not most often, initiate a 
conflict with the citizen.

The citizen is led to believe that he or she must employ a lawyer 
to have any hope to prevail with legal or administrative remedy.

We believe that bureaucrats, court clerks and judges should follow 
the laws of the United States of America and properly perform 
their jobs.

We ask your and other congress members' help to make
bureaucrats, court clerks and judges do their jobs properly.

First by getting copies of Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals docket 
sheets No. 94-2205, Payne v Sandia and 95-2204, Morales v Sandia 
to us.

Sincerely,



Arthur R. Morales                William H. Payne
1023 Los  Arboles NW             13015 Calle de Sandias NE
Albuquerque, NM 87107            Albuquerque, NM 87111

Distribution
Ben Nighthorse Campbell
  administrator@campbell.senate.gov 
Ernest Hollings
  senator@hollings.senate.gov
Trent Lott
  senatorlott@lott.senate.gov
Richard Shelby
  senator@shelby.senate.gov 
Charles Robb
  Senator_Robb@robb.senate.gov
Jim Lehrer
  newshour@pbs.org


Thursday 3/12/98 7:34 AM

Certified - Return Receipt Requested


Cynthia McKinney

124 Cannon Building
Washington, DC 20515
Office: (202)225-1605
Fax: (202)226-0691
http://www.house.gov/mckinney/

Dear Representative McKinney:



PURPOSE of this letter is to ask your help for us to obtain copes of 
docket sheets from the Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals for cases 
No. 94-2205, Payne v Sandia and 95-2204, Morales v Sandia.

All of our legal efforts to obtain these documents, which any citizen
has a right to, have failed.

REASON you are selected to help is that you appear to be knowledgeable
about operation of the current US federal government and willing to speak 
out in an attempt to solve problems.

You appeared Friday February 27, 1998 on  PBS, The NewsHour with Jim 
Lehrer, along with senators Campbell, Hollings, Lott, Shelby Robb and 
representatives Dana Rohrabacher and Harold Rogers.

These senators and congressmen appeared not to support your views because
they are either mis- or not well-informed about US involvement in support 
of Saddam Hussein.

Stories supporting your view appear on Internet at

  NSA, Crypto AG, and the Iraq-Iran Conflict by J. Orlin Grabbe
  http://www.aci.net/kalliste/speccoll.htm

and

 Crypto AG: The NSA's Trojan Whore? by Wayne Madsen
 http://caq.com/CAQ/caq63/caq63madsen.html

Madsen begins

   It may be the greatest intelligence scam of the century:
   For decades, the US has routinely intercepted and
   deciphered top secret encrypted messages of 120
   countries

But NSA , and as a result the US federal government, apparnetly 
got caught involved in complicity of deaths of about 500,000 Iranians.

This is the subject of a Federal lawsuit seen on Internet at

   http://jya.com/whpfiles.htm
  
US federal government help of Iraq during the Iraq-Iran war may 
possibly backfire on innocent US citizens.

The Wall Street Journal, March 10, 1998, pp. B1, B9. reports

   A Peek Inside a Giant Germ Warehouse 

   By Rochelle Sharpe

   Rockville, Md. -- They keep anthrax bacteria in the
   basement of a faded red-brick building here.

   It isn't far from the yellow-fever virus, the botulism
   bacteria and some of the hundreds of organisms that cause
   the common cold. In fact, there are samples of 85,000
   different fungi, viruses, cells, genes and bacteria here at
   the American Type Culture Collection, by far the largest of
   the 450 repositories of biological materials scattered
   around the globe. ...

   The ATCC legally shipped 10 vials of anthrax, botulism and
   other deadly substances to Iraqi scientists in the 1980s --
   when the U.S. and Iraq were on much friendlier terms -- all
   with the Commerce Department's approval. ...

   http://www.jya.com/btn031198.txt

The US federal government apparently intended these bioweapons to 
be used against the people of Iran.

You demonstrated on PBS TV a quality identified by Francis Bacon

         The contemplation of things as they are,
                without error or confusion,
            without substitution or imposture,
   is in itself a nobler thing than a whole harvest of invention.

by your statement about Saddam Hussein on PBS

                ...our man and our creation...

Perhaps after reading the above materials and

   The Problem of Paradigm Shifts - Terrorism and the 
   Threat From Weapons of Mass Destruction in the Middle East
   Working Draft Anthony H. Cordesman, Senior Fellow and 
   Co-Director Middle East Studies Program October 22, 1996

  http://www.csis.org/mideast/terror.html

senators Campbell, Hollings, Lott, Shelby, Robb and representatives 
Dana Rohrabacher and Harold Rogers MAY NOW understand why you are 
correct and they are mis- or not well-informed about US involvement 
with Saddam Hussein.

PROBLEM we face with the US court system is that court clerks and judges
have committed Title 18 felony violation of law IN WRITING in an attempt
to deny us monetary compensation due us for the cases WE WON at the 
Tenth Circuit on Appeal.  

But judges awarded victories to the US federal government in violation 
of Federal Rules of Appellate Procedure.

Cases  No. 94-2205, Payne v Sandia and 95-2204, Morales v Sandia 
were both won pro se on appeal.

We have filed a writ of mandamus with supreme court judge 
Scalia in an  attempt to get the docket sheets for the two above 
cases.

But Scalia will not answer our certified letters.

Senator McCain wrote Payne on December 23, 1997

  I wanted to take this opportunity of than you for you letter of 
  December 3, 1997. 

  Your situation is in the jurisdiction of Senator Pete Dominici.  
  Therefore, I have  forwarded you letter to his attention.

  William, I hope you situation can be resolved favorably.

Lawyers and politicians Dominici and Bingaman are part of a 
problem not a solution.

Dominici and Bingaman have the following agenda

  University of New Mexico Bureau for Business and Economic
  Research reported on October 14, 1997: 

  A  The Gross State Product of New Mexico is $37.8 billion.

  B  The US Federal government sends $11.3 billion to New Mexico
      each year.

  C  For each $1 New Mexico sends to Washington, New Mexico gets 
      $2 back.

THEREFORE, Representative McKinney, we ask your help to get copies
of the docket sheets.

Citizens of the US are becoming more upset with the behavior of 
bureaucrats, the courts [lawyers], and the US federal government. 

Some Americans have no other way to express their dissatisfaction
with US federal government mismanagement of our country except
by violence.

Frederick Douglass either wrote or said on  August 4, 1847

          Those who profess to favor freedom,
            and yet depreciate agitation
   are men who want crops without plowing up the ground.
      They want rain without thunder and lightening.
         Power concedes nothing without a demand.
            It never did, and it never will.
       Find out just what people will submit to
        and you have found out the exact amount
  of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them.
      These will continue until they are resisted
        with either words or blows, or with both.
          The limits of tyrants are prescribed
       by the endurance of those whom they oppress.

We chose to use the words and law to hold government 
employees accountable.

Please encourage Scalia to do his job. 

Help get us copies of the docket sheets.  

And even perhaps help investigate further and settle this 
American tragedy.


Sincerely,



Arthur R. Morales                William H. Payne
1023 Los  Arboles NW             13015 Calle de Sandias NE
Albuquerque, NM 87107            Albuquerque, NM 87111

Enclosures
1  NSA, Crypto AG, and the Iraq-Iran Conflict by J. Orlin Grabbe
2  Crypto AG: The NSA's Trojan Whore? by Wayne Madsen
3  Swiss Radio International Audio tape, 15 May, 18 July 1994

Distribution
Ben Nighthorse Campbell
  administrator@campbell.senate.gov 
Ernest Hollings
  senator@hollings.senate.gov
Trent Lott
  senatorlott@lott.senate.gov
Richard Shelby
  senator@shelby.senate.gov 
Charles Robb
  Senator_Robb@robb.senate.gov
Jim Lehrer
  newshour@pbs.org




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill 
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 05:51:26 -0800 (PST)
To: "
Subject: Hello
Message-ID: <3517B886.3C3F@canes.gsw.peachnet.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hey Stan, how is the MLM business.
Oh, lets not forget the adult WebSites also.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mix 
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 10:43:26 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199803241834.KAA21637@sirius.infonex.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


>Hey, I requested off this list ages ago.  
>Why don't you simply pull my
>subscription and we'll ALL be happy?  :-)

>Stan
        
Because we are all laughing at you, 
you stupid bastard.  





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSquncr 
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 07:41:11 -0800 (PST)
To: whgiii@invweb.net
Subject: Re: Or is it Pat Robertson?
Message-ID: <329a5276.3517d3ec@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


In a message dated 98-03-24 06:43:54 EST, whgiii@invweb.net writes:

<< > Hmmm Louis Farakan school of Number Theory >>
 
 >Hmmm, didn't seem to bother you when the same theory was used against
 >Bill Gates!  Not surprized, the response came from, you guessed it
 >cypher's, another paranoid "Know-nothing" -
 
 Yes Stan and you are here to "save" us all. >>

And what planet are you on?  I'm hear as the result of a big war I had with a
moderator.
 
<< Twit. >>

William seemed to accurately sign-off this time!   :-)

Stan




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSquncr 
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 07:41:37 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Stan the Asshole
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


In a message dated 98-03-24 09:06:28 EST, mixmaster@remail.obscura.com writes:

<< Stan is an asshole, an annoyance on this list. I've 
 killfiled anything with his email address in any 
 header. I suggest everyone do the same. When he gets 
 no responses to anything he posts, he will eventually 
 go away, probably to where "Liberals Go To Die." If 
 you encourage him, I won't see your responses.  I 
 don't wade through the blizzard of this list to have 
 to wipe splashes of airhead liberal shit out of my 
 eyes at every other step.
 
 GodILoveFiltersMonger II >>

Hey, I requested off this list ages ago.  Why don't you simply pull my
subscription and we'll ALL be happy?  :-)

Stan




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mix 
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 12:23:52 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199803241852.KAA23337@sirius.infonex.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


...and then there is the "StanSquncr" virus that prompts you
to pawn your computer for a $20 crackrock.  Two hours later,
you find yourself on a street corner sucking dick for $5 rocks.


I'm your REAL daddy, Stan.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSquncr 
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 08:23:34 -0800 (PST)
To: newshour@pbs.org
Subject: Re: McKinney fax
Message-ID: <80685716.3517dd42@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


In a message dated 98-03-24 11:02:35 EST, billp@nmol.com (of the cypherpunks)
writes:

<< We believe that bureaucrats, court clerks and judges should follow the laws
of the United States of America and properly perform their jobs. >>

We (if I speak for others on the cypherpunks list, that is (I'm a guest))
believe that the laws Bill is talking about, is the "Constitution of the
United States of America/Bill of Rights"

For instance, Article VI part 3 - 

"3 The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the members of the
several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial officers, both of
the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by oath or
affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious test shall ever be
required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United
States."

" ... but no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any
office or public trust under the United States."

And, to the pbs newshour, we (with same exclusion as above) believe that YOU
need to get a true voice from the left for your panels.  Sheilds only speaks
from a left POV 'some of the time' (and it  ain't enough of the time.)

And to Senator Lott - 'Have a happy father's day!'  (President Clinton)

Stan Rosenthal, 

FreeGroup - "Just Say It!"
http://members.aol.com/WhatsMetaU/freegroup.html




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSquncr 
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 08:21:19 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: 'Virus Alert!' or 'Re:Stan the Savior?'
Message-ID: <44e3dc96.3517dd54@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


whgiii@invweb.net - << Yes Stan and you are here to "save" us all. >>

If you look up in your definition of the word "save", maybe, EXCEPT, there's
bound to be at least a couple of people on this list that don't need saving.
;-)

But really, what I'm here to save, is your computers -
========
Subj:  What if -
God and SuperMan got into a fight - no, I found this on a Rush newsgroup -
-----------------------------
Subject: If Rush was a computer virus...
From: lotus@hogpe.ho.att.com (-R.CAPIK)
Date: 21 Mar 1996 17:16:10 GMT

What if there was a Rush Limbaugh computer virus. What might it do? What about
some other political figures... ?

Ron Capik [aka: the NJ Editorial Minstrel ]
-----------
Forbes virus:       Makes all your programs give 17% of their resources back
to your system. We have no idea what the system will do with the resources.
(Only applies to earned resources.)  At a cost of millions (in un-earned
resources), the virus runs for a short time then quits.  

Buchanan virus:     All your icons move to the far right of your screen.

Bill Clinton virus: Your pointer jumps back and forth across the middle of the
screen, seems to drift to the left and you can't seem to pick any programs. If
you have a sound card you may hear the sound of rushing [white] water.

Limbaugh virus [aka: ditto virus]:     All icons line up under the Rush icon
where ever it may go.

Bill Clinton #2     Icons turn purple and explode. (May be triggered by
conservative input)

Dole virus:         We don't quite know what it may do, but it seems to have
been in the system for a very long time. May cause system to enter sleep
cycle.

Perot virus:        Ran for a short time in 92 then quit. It may also be
active for a short time in 96. May cause space alien problems with daughter
programs.

Hillary virus:      Causes text to appear on your screen years after you lost
it.  May trigger "Bill Clinton #2" virus.  May also cause rushing [white]
water sound.
----------
What if, Stan had written those virus descriptions? - 

Buchanan virus [aka - "Sap" (of the 'Family (Values) Tree')]:     All your
icons move to the far right of your screen, and then, any icon that depicts a
face gets covered up by a white coned shape hat (and sheets, if the icon is of
a whole person).  The rest of the icons turn into pitch-forks, and swastikas.
The (now) covered 'people' icons then grab the 'pitch-fork' icons, and run off
the *extreme* right side of the screen.  The swastikas remain on your screen,
and cannot be removed, for they are burned into the phosphor.  Your computer
then logs on to America OnLine, goes to the 'government' forum, and then the
(now) covered 'people' icons return (in groups), with the 'pitch-fork' icons,
to the screen, and start attacking America (OnLine), starting with the
'government' (forum). The instant the Buchanan virus infects your computer, it
attempts to kill all forms of the 'Jerusalem' virus (but it never gets them
all).  

Limbaugh virus [aka - "Whiner"]:     All icons line up under the Rush icon
wherever it may go.  As soon as 'Limbaugh' infects your computer, it (along
with any other virus that will join it) attempts to kill the 'Clinton' virus,
and the 'Hillary' virus (but doesn't succeed, only weakens them temporarally,
then they become much stronger, and impossible to remove for another '4 More
Years!').  Then it starts attacking any other viruses 'Limbaugh' thinks is
vulnurable, including the viruses that had joined it in attacking the
'Clinton' viruses.  The only viruses that the 'Limbaugh' virus has been know
to truly rid your system of, though, is the 'Limbaugh' virus, and the virus'
that believe that the 'Limbaugh' virus is a 'truth detector' type virus, or
that the 'Limbaugh' virus is on 'loan from god', etc.  The 'Limbaugh' virus
self-destructs after 7 or 8 years (and it can't understand why).  
 
Gingrich [aka - "KingRich" (King of the Rich)]:     This virus affects
applications that have an ability to recreate previous commands given to that
application while editing a document of that application, using a 'history' or
'undo' command.  'KingRich' attaches itself to the 'history' files, and
selectivly changes certain portions in it.  So if you make a mistake, and you
need to go back and recreate your file before your mistake, you can still go
back, but you'll probably find the icons that represent your best work that
you had placed on the left side of your screen, now on the right of it, and
those icons that open your worst work, and previously placed on the right,
you'll now find that on the left.

Gingrich #2 [aka - "CryBaby"]:      This virus goes to the back of your pci,
vesa,16bit, or 8bit bus, and makes your hard drive make a real loud 'whining'
noise and your soundcard starts making a 'crying' sound through your audio
setup or speakers.  On your screen, 'CryBaby' places the message "I'm going to
shut the system down because I had to go to the back of the bus!", and it
causes your computer to go into 'default' (meaning, it causes you to lose your
CMOS memory, and it restarts with power-on 'defaults').

And we now know what the Dole virus will do -

Dole virus [aka - "Quitter"]:  This virus attacks your hard drive, causing it
to make a real loud 'whining' noise.  Then it quits, and you never have to
worry about it again.

To learn how to detect and remove these viruses from YOUR system, register at
- 

What's A Meta U (and What's It 2 U?)
http://members.aol.com/WhatsMetaU
=====
Stan




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: TruthMongrel 
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 15:21:57 -0800 (PST)
To: webmaster@eads.com
Subject: Your courageous stance...
Message-ID: <35184081.7CF5@dev.null>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I would like to congratulate and thank you for the courageous stance
that you
have taken by doing your part to help stop the spread of anarchistic and
possibly
illegal content on the InterNet by denying access to those who use the
freedom
and rights granted them by the Constitution to abuse those privileges.

  Your stance is particularly admired by those of us who share your
interest in
preventing the spread of free access to all types of information, in
light of the
fact that you have not shied away from persecuting those connected with
the
Circle of Eunuchs, thus possibly putting yourself, your family and your
business
in physical danger, as well as virtual danger.
  Given the current dissension within the ranks of the Cirle of Eunuchs
and the
Army of Dog, concerning whether their assault on censorship and censors
should
be consumated in CyberSpace or MeatSpace, there are few who are willing
to put
themselves in the line of fire to support the same ideals that other
great
Americans, such as Senator Joe McCarthy and J. Edgar Hoover, have
championed.

  Regardless of the possible physical danger you will be subjected to if
the
proponents of MeatSpace retruibution to censorship supporters win out in
the
current battle for control of the resources of the Army of Dog, your
choice
to submit to government oppressors and legal threats is likely the right
one,
since the government currently has more and better armed thugs than
those
who oppose them.

TruthMonger III
"Ain't no safety this side of the grave...never has been...never will
be."





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous Sender 
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 14:00:17 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Chaffing and Winnowing
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Aside from the considerable overhead created by C/W,
I observe a possible pitfall. suppose I start every
new message at ID# 0. The first time I C/W a message
everything works fine. The next time I C/W a message
with the same MAC, I give some very juciy clues to
what both messages were. This is because the item that
the MAC applied to was an ID number and a bit. well, that
bit is either zero or one... so any bit that corresponds
between my first and second message will yield an identicle
MAC, thus making it easy for anybody to seperate some of 
the wheat from the chaff, merely by simple observation.
though in a real implementation, I probably wouldn't be so
niave as to start every new message with the same packet
ID, I point out that there's an upper limit on the amount of
data that should be transmitted before a new
authentication key should be arranged... that is assuming that
the ID field was of finite size. Rivest mentioned in passing
using a 32 bit ID. That's an impressive number of bits to
C/W, but certainly not unattainable.

-SM2k





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Timothy C. May" 
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 16:22:06 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Kill 'em all...*I'll* sort 'em out...
Message-ID: <35184DF7.2497@dev.null>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----	Forward from TruthMonger III	-----

I would like to congratulate and thank you for the courageous stance
that you have taken by doing your part to help stop the spread of 
anarchistic and possibly illegal content on the InterNet by denying 
access to those who use the freedom and rights granted them by the 
Constitution to abuse those privileges.

  Your stance is particularly admired by those of us who share your
interest in preventing the spread of free access to all types of 
information, in light of the fact that you have not shied away from 
persecuting those connected with the Circle of Eunuchs, thus possibly 
putting yourself, your family and your business in physical danger, as 
well as virtual danger.
  Given the current dissension within the ranks of the Cirle of Eunuchs
and the Army of Dog, concerning whether their assault on censorship and 
censors should be consumated in CyberSpace or MeatSpace, there are few 
who are willing to put themselves in the line of fire to support the 
same ideals that other great Americans, such as Senator Joe McCarthy and 
J. Edgar Hoover, have championed.

  Regardless of the possible physical danger you will be subjected to if
the proponents of MeatSpace retruibution to censorship supporters win 
out in the current battle for control of the resources of the Army of 
Dog, your choice to submit to government oppressors and legal threats is 
likely the right one, since the government currently has more and better 
armed thugs than those who oppose them.

TruthMonger III
"Ain't no safety this side of the grave...never has been...never will
be."

---- End of Alleged Forwarded Message -----

  Despite the fact that the missive you are currently reading is an
obvious forgery, I, Timothy C. May , would like to exhort
all of my fellow victims of forgeries by the DogMeister@Sympatico to
form their own Cult of One chapter of the Army of Dog.
  Unless each and every individual who is concerned with gaining the
liberty to exercise the basic rights and freedoms which come from
being a unique participant in the universe which has formed them
(and which they have had a hand in forming) steps forward to demand
the right to exercise and manifest their values and beliefs in
MeatSpace, as well as CyberSpace...uuhhh...has anybody seen my
shoes?

"We have met the future of rEvolution, and it is us."
~ Ogop

  Due to the heavy investment I have made in MeatSpace weaponry, I will
be supporting the factions of the Army of Dog which are promoting a
physical war against the enemies of freedom, but I recognize that those
whose investment is in newer warfare technologies have an equal right
to fight the battle within the slightly more infinite boundaries of
Digital Reality.

"The screens of freedom must occassionally be refreshed with a GUI-
 supported blood-color of digital martyrs."
~ AGuyTooLazyToLookUpTheOriginalQuote

  Despite the concerns of some members of the Cypherpunks Distributed
Mailing List about the forged attributions of the DogMeister concerning
the beliefs and stances of various individual list members, we all know,
deep down inside, that Janet Reno's secret lover, Officer Furhman, is
right when he whispers in her ear during their fuckmaking (in a manner
that is a felony in the majority of states, which is why they only do
it in Federal offices), "The CypherPunks may not be guilty of the
crimes that TruthMongrel attributes to them, but they are all guilty
of *something*..."

Timothy C. May 
"There is something 'Wong' when I have to send 'chop, chop' messages
 to an increasing number of posters to the Cypherpunks list."





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSquncr 
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 15:40:17 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re:Stan the Human!
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


In a message dated 98-03-24 16:09:52 EST, mixmaster@remail.obscura.com writes:

<< >Hey, I requested off this list ages ago.  
 >Why don't you simply pull my
 >subscription and we'll ALL be happy?  :-)
 
 >Stan
         
 Because we are all laughing at you, 
 you really smart guy.   >>

Hey, I got my laughs too!

Stan




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: TruthMongrer 
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 17:21:28 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: CIA Trained Gorilla Femnists
Message-ID: <35185C90.418F@dev.null>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Male Gorilla, Released to Mate
               with Females, Drops Dead

               AP
               24-MAR-98

TOKYO (AP) The excitement, or perhaps the pressure, apparently was too
much for Sultan. The 28-year-old male gorilla, specially moved to a 
cage to mate with three females, instead dropped dead. 

The 400-pound lowland gorilla ran around briefly and played with his 
new friends Monday, then suddenly collapsed, apparently after suffering 
a heart attack, said Kunihiko Yasui, head of animal breeding at Kyoto 
Municipal Zoo.

~~~

Reports from non-mainstream news sources indicate that one of the
female gorillas was carrying an umbrella which was nowhere to be
found when invesigators searched the cage after the mysterious
death of the male gorilla.
Gertrude Stein, denying that an elite corps of techno-femnists
is involved with providing CIA BlackOps training for female
subjects of a digital-implant experiment being conducted by
the NSA, merely said, "What is good for the goose is not always
necessarily good for the gorilla."

Anonymous sources from the CypherPunks Distributed Mailing List
indicated that the assassination was coordinated by Blanc Weber,
a list member who disguises her hidden agenda of MeatSpace 
violence by constantly admonishing list members for expressing
the results of the excessive male hormones surging through their
potential-rapist bodies.
The sources cited Weber's previous support of Zsa-Zsa Grubor as
proof of her involvement with radical femnist movements whose
goals are secretly financed by Wonder Bra, Wonder Woman, and
Wonder Bread.

Mainstream media sources continue to claim that this post is 
nothing more than the psychotic babblings of a FrostBack To
Be Named Later. However, this view is obvious in error, or an
intelligent person such as yourself would not stil be reading
this post, eh?

TruthFemnist,
"And, after my operation, I will learn to spell 'feminist' correctly."





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSquncr 
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 16:59:27 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Kill 'em all...*I'll* sort 'em out...
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


In a message dated 98-03-24 19:48:49 EST, tm@dev.null writes:

<< -----	Forward from TruthMonger III	----- 
 
 I would like to congratulate and thank you for the courageous stance
 that you have taken by doing your part to help stop the spread of 
 anarchistic and possibly illegal content on the InterNet by denying 
 access to those who use the freedom and rights granted them by the 
 Constitution to abuse those privileges.
 
   Your stance is particularly admired by those of us who share your
 interest in preventing the spread of free access to all types of 
 information  concerning whether their assault on censorship and 
 censors should be consumated in CyberSpace or MeatSpace, there are few 
 who are willing to put themselves in the line of fire to support the 
 same ideals that other great Americans, such as Senator Joe McCarthy and 
 J. Edgar Hoover, have championed. >>

Ah yes, fits like a lock and a key.  Pro-censorship guys also being pro
McCarthy guys!  After all, these "Know-nothings" today, are the 'Modern
McCarthyites' (see my political page)

Stan




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSquncr 
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 17:48:08 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Welcome to cypherpunks-unedited
Message-ID: <44e512a9.35186235@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


In a message dated 98-03-24 19:18:48 EST, Majordomo@toad.com writes:

<< Cypherpunks assume privacy is a good thing and wish there were more of it.

Cypherpunks acknowledge that those who want privacy must create it for
themselves and not expect governments, corporations, or other large, faceless
organizations to grant them privacy out of beneficence.  Cypherpunks know that
people have been creating their own privacy for centuries with whispers,
envelopes, closed doors, and couriers.  Cypherpunks do not seek to prevent
other people from speaking about their experiences or their opinions. >>

I agree with all that.

 
<< ...  Cypherpunks love to practice.  They love to play with public key
cryptography.  ... >>

But when it's used as simply a means of identifying yourself on a public list,
is that really privacy protection?  Seems like a mis-use of the technology to
me.

Stan




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Toto 
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 19:08:24 -0800 (PST)
To: randlev@worldnet.att.net
Subject: Expert Testimony [ATTN: Donald C. Randolph, Esq.]
Message-ID: <3518739A.1700@sk.sympatico.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Re:
>Kevin
>Mitnick is seeking a highly credentialed expert in computer security,
>telecommunications, system and network administration to testify 

Mr. Mitnick & Mr. Randolph,
  If you desire, I can put you in contact with an individual who has
not only been described as 'The World's Foremost Computer Expert' in
a variety of computer manuscripts and journals dating as far back as
1989, but who would also be willing to testify as to his personal
involvement in the ethical violation of a plethora of MeatSpace laws
in the last few decades during his activities in CyberSpace.
  I am speaking of C.J. Parker.

>Qualified candidates must have an advanced degree and be knowledgeable 
> in DOS, Windows 3.ll, Unix (SunOs & Solaris), VAX/VMS, and Internet
>operations.  Experience with cellular telephone networks is a plus.

  Mr. Parker holds an MBA which was obtained through an accelerated
degree program known as 'hacking,' and can provide transcripts to
verify his being awarded several 'honors' awards by a recognized
institution of higher education.
  He has been involved in top levels of the business and educational 
arenas of the computer industry for the better part of a decade, and
has not only worked with all variety of operating systems and programs,
but also has access to a variety of individuals whose knowledge and
expertise encompasses a range of the industry which is nothing short
of phenomenal.

  Mr. Parker is a co-author of a variety of manuscripts concerning
computer and digital communications issues which were only recognized 
as significant years or decades after his treatment of them.

  The fact that Mr. Parker is certifiably insane in no way dimishes
the accomplishments that he has succeeded in bringing to fruitation
as the president of an international computer company, and as an
outlaw who was spitting in the face of authority since Mr. Mitnick
was wetnursing.

  If you are interested in providing your client with a defense
which will be recognized as sane and competent, then you would be
well advised to ignore my offer.
  If you wish for your client to successfully resist the efforts
of the government to make him a scapegoat for the deficiencies
of the InterNet entities whose resources he shared based upon
his own values and beliefs, then you would be well advised to
further explore my offer.

  In short, Mr. Parker is not currently facing charges for the
same activities that have been committed by your client.
  Think about it.

~~~~
Toto
~~~~
"The Xenix Chainsaw Massacre"
http://bureau42.base.org/public/xenix
"WebWorld & the Mythical Circle of Eunuchs"
http://bureau42.base.org/public/webworld
"InfoWar"
http://bureau42.base.org/public/infowar3
"The Final Frontier"
http://www3.sk.sympatico.ca/carljohn





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Toto 
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 19:29:08 -0800 (PST)
To: "Brian B. Riley" 
Subject: Re: Is That  A Balck Helicopter Up There?
In-Reply-To: <199803250236.VAA05942@mx02.together.net>
Message-ID: <35187AA6.3AC4@sk.sympatico.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Brian B. Riley, who snuck into the WhiteHouse, put on a Bill Clinton
 halloween mask, and raped Mona Lewinski, wrote:
 I honestly don't know if I would be too paranoid to say that the
government is behind all these happenings, I really don't like the
territory that takes us to; but they most surely are quick to exploit
them for the own agenda ... it seems now that every untoward incident
that happens is hopped upon by some goverment official or goverment
schill as an excuse to shorten the leash ... 
~~~

Brian,
  The power of your posts resides in the fact that you do not beat the
drum for a totally paranoid view of reality, yet you allow room for
that view, just the same.
  To claim that the children who recently killed a number of their
fellow students during a false fire-drill were encouraged by the
government in order to draw attention away from the '48 Hours' show
on government involvement in the murder of Dr. Martin Luther King
would be a stretch. On the other hand, the issues being debated by
the '48 Hours' special would have been considered a stretch at the
time of the event, despite the fact that they are well supported by
information that has been wrested from the grip of secrecy in the
time since then.

  The bottom line is that we currently live in a society whose view
of reality has been formed/programmed by the media/medium of TV.

"Watch me and I'll bleed you, 'cause you eat the shit I feed you.
  ~ Frank Zappa & the Mothers of Invention

  The danger of the Sheeple being misled by false conspiracy theories
propogated by the Fringe Media (TM) is small compared to the danger
that they will continue to be misled by the Reality (TM) being spammed
deep within the programming centers of thier minds by a mainstream
media which feeds at the same trough as FBI snipers and Marine units
whose motto seems to be "My country, wrong or wrong..."

  My career as a would-be shit-disturber and troublemaker pales in
comparison with the inevitable leakage that occurs around the edges
of the Official World View (TM) propagated by those who employ the
gatekeepers of the Media Feeding Pen and the Dogs Of Whore whose
teeth ensure that the Sheeple will not stray from their appointed
destiny.

Toto 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Toto 
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 20:58:20 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Playboy Channel Implicated In Arkansas School Massacre!
Message-ID: <35188F7B.54BD@sk.sympatico.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


The governor of Arkans(redneck)as(sholes) has stepped forward to
lay responsibility for the latest school massacre tragedy squarely
on the shoulders of those elements of the entertainment media who
have not thus far been implicated in the political shennanigans and
illegal drug deals perpretrated by the former governor of Arkansas,
who is currenly dipping his dick in those entering the Whitehouse
through the 'Ladies Only' entrance.

  It seems that responibility for the massacre lies in the current
social acceptance of the licentious violence being spammed upon the
public by the immoral profitmongers of the entertainment industry.
  This is in marked contrast to the current social acceptance of the
licentious violence being spammed upon the public by the moral
profitmongers of the Biblically-based religion industry.

  It is obvious that new laws will have to be passed to protect the
children exposed to the sex and violence contained in the Christian
Bible from being further influenced by corresponding material in the
secular sector of society.

SpermMonger
"Spilling my seed on the ground since puberty."





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 20:04:53 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: EMI and TWA 800
Message-ID: <199803250404.XAA02816@camel14.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


The April 9 New York Review of Books has published a long 
special supplement, "The Fall of TWA 800: The Possibility
of Electromagnetic Interference," by Elaine Scarry, a noted author
and Harvard professor:

   http://jya.com/twa800-emi.htm  (128K with 3 images)

The article closely examines the possibility of electromagnetic
interference in TWA 800's controls, comm, and black boxes
by activities of the ten US military planes and ships in the
vicinity which were heavily equipped for electronic warfare 
and were conducting tests of the gear. 

It is reports on what is publically known about the EM armaments
of planes and ships in the vicinity, about secret EM weapons and 
defenses, the several dozen military and commercial planes that 
have crashed due to EMI, military studies of long-standing EM 
hazards which will not be released to crash investigators, current 
research in EMI and what scientists in the field think about the 
possibility of EMI causing the fall of TWA 800.

It calls for the military to release its classified EMI research to
NTSB investigators, and short of that, for the servicemen and 
women on the planes and ships at the scene to tell what they 
know. It asks Congress to order military cooperation.

Not at all inflammatory or accusatory, it is thoroughly researched 
(over 100 notes and citations) and highly informative on the 
hazards of EMI, and worthy of ciritque by learned scientists 
in the field here.

Coda: Ron Brown's crash is not mentioned but its characteristics 
fit several other EMI accidents for which the military will not
release findings, claiming that national security EM weapons
secrets would be jeopardized.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bienfait Nutly News 
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 21:25:10 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: The Arkansas Chainsaw Massacre
Message-ID: <351895E1.2130@dev.null>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


[Bienfait, Saskatchewan] AT A LATE-NIGHT CELEBRATION AT THE COALDUST
Saloon, members of the MeatSpace Revolutionary Arm of the Army of Dog
congratulated one another on the success of 'Operation FireDrill.'

Although their efforts to promote their violent interpretation of
'The True Story of the InterNet' manuscripts was somewhat dampened
by the fact that their young pawns did not have the strength to
pull-start the excessively large Stihl chainsaws they were provided,
and had to resort to conventional arms, the mission was still seen as
a success.
Defcon McCullagh Chainsaw, a violent terrorist who has managed to
infiltrate the mainstream media as a respected correspondent, said,
"The twisted spin that the citizens of this Bible-(spare the)Belt(spoil
the child) community will put on this tragedy will no doubt increase
the Sheeple's call for stronger censorship and repression of expression,
which will not only provide me with more material for my ineffective
columns pissing in the wind generated by the Moral Majority, but will
also hasten the MeatSpace rEvolution that will arise in response to
the unconstitutional limits which the government will impose on the
citizens under cover of the associated propaganda spewn out by their
pawns in the mainstream media."

A spokesperson for Pat Buchanan, dodging questions regarding the rumors
that the Moral Majority was snookered by the Army of Violent Dogs into
financing the operation, said, "I have no comment, except to note that
tomorrow I will release a statement clarifying what I would have 'meant
to say' during this press conference, if I had, in fact, said anything
beyond, 'No comment.'"

In a private conversation with this reportwhore, God, on the condition
that he not be quoted, said, "Dog works in mysterious ways."





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Potential Bill Gates Assassins Union (Local 709)" 
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 22:53:19 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Prologue 13/0 -- SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS!
Message-ID: <3518AA73.4569@dev.null>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


TruthMonger Sells Out:

Subject: I Concede...
To: BadBillyG
From: TruthMonger

Yo Willy,
  You finally whupped me...
  After years of plotting your death in a slow, excruciating manner,
time and circumstances have finally forced me to offer to compromise
my formerly unbending position regarding your continued physical 
existence.

  In my own defence, I must state that I probably could have held out
indefinitely in my crusade to force you to pay for the tremendous
amount of suffering that resulted from your successfully making DOS
a worldwide computer standard, despite the fact that children in
basements around the nation were producing vastly superior products,
such as 4DOS and AstroTit, had it not been for the fact that even
greater evil forces in the world aligned themselves against you,
behind ugly-as-sin schills such as Janet Reno, as opposed to sweethearts
such as Blanc Weber, who is your staunchest defender, despite the fact
that she is carrying Attila T. Hun's baby.

  The beginning of my downfall as a 'command-line kind of guy' was
when I was forced to trade in my XT with a 20M hard drive and 2M of
RAM because of the requirement of the only ISP available to me
that I be able to run Windoze.
  Up until then, I had been able to successfully hide my secret life
as a huge fan of M$ Word. After purchasing Win95, however, and
not having the character to deny myself indulging in the downloading
of a free copy of InterNet Assistant, my anti-M$ resolve deteriorated
rapidly, until I finally got fed up with Nut$crape's inability to
provide me with the instant gratification of my desire to have the
latest in software technology, despite the fact that it was a result
of your devious and predatorial business practices which made it so.
  As a result, I finally quit kidding myself about my ability to
resist joining the herd of Sheeple racing madly over the M$ cliff,
and I downloaded and installed M$ Exploiter.

  In recognition of the fact that I am now committed to a life of
addiction to the M$ updates being offered by shadowy characters on
dimly-lit street corners, I am willing to offer you a compromise
on my previous demands that you wipe that cute, shit-eating grin
off of your face so that I can assassinate you with a clear
conscience.
  To be honest, my current predicament is that, after purchasing
a variety of M$ products, I currently find myself unable to 
reinstall any of them if my system goes to shit, which it often
does as a result of my being a sorry, drunken, drug addict without
a lick of common sense.
  Although I own 3 1/2" floppy disks purchased in the late 1980's,
and which still work perfectly fine, the disks which I have
acquired recently, containing the M$ products I own, have all
gone to shit, because America has sunk to the point where they
not only cannot make a decent car, anymore, but they also cannot
make a decent floppy disk.
  
  Accordingly, I am willing to reduce my demands for your physical
extermination to a demand that you allow me to cut off three fingers
on your left hand, on the following conditions:
1. You provide me with CD-ROMS for Win95, M$ Word for Win95,
  Windows 3.11, and a copy of AstroTit, a program writen by
  some sorry loser in Sedona, Arizona, and which I lost because
  DOS 4.0 made me so fucking crazy that I threw my computer
  through a window in forty-below-zero weather.
2. You not tell the CypherPunks about this offer, since all of my
  somewhat deficient reputation capital rests upon my long-winded
  diatribes against M$, as a result of my not having any appreciable
  computer skills.
3. That Blanc Weber provide me with a notarized document signed by
  a reputable physician stating that s/he has examined her, and 
  revealing whether or not she is wearing panties.
4. You recall the team of hired assassins who are currently training
  their cross-hairs on my toilet, through the bathroom window.
  (I need to take a helluva piss, and the kitchen sink is backed-up.)
5. Some other conditions which I can't remember because I am running
  low on my medications, but I will hold you to those conditions,
  regardless.
6. You throw your support behind legislation aimed at eliminating
  discrimination based on species. (My dog, Baby, asked me to
  include this condition. She promised to quit hogging the 'good
  pillow' if you would agree to this.)

Looking forward to your reply,
Toto
"It's not a DEATH THREAT!!! until *I* say it's a DEATH THREAT!!!"





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 17:54:32 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: While you were bending over for the soap... / Re: Kill 'em all...*I'll* sort 'em out...
Message-ID: <199803250154.CAA12695@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


TM forged:
> within the slightly more infinite boundaries of

ATTN: Circle of Eunuchs Initiates !!!

An in-depth investigation by the NSA has confirmed, beyond a shadow of
a doubt, that the dark-conspiracy manifestos that make up 'The True
Story of the InterNet' series, as well as all peripheral communications
from various CoE members, has been nothing more than a clever ruse to
subversively slip the concept quoted above into the minds of the
unsuspecting schills of the Author.

Please be advised that individuals who allow themselves to be influenced
by the subversive concept expressed above run the risk of mistakenly
acting under the assumption that 'infinity' can be defined by the
individual, and thus they are capable of escaping the limitations which
the programmed reality of those in authority over them exercises in
order to protect them from the madness which can result from attempting
to cross the boundaries of thought and action which have long since
been proven statistically safe to transverse, according to recent CNN
polls designed to ensure that we all remain safely within the pens
within which airport security personnel and tax officials are acting
in our best interests.

Those who disagree with the stance taken by the author of this post
will be audited by the IRS as potential troublemakers.

Thank You,
the author of this post





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSquncr 
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 00:14:49 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Or is it Pat Robertson?
Message-ID: <484377db.3518bcc7@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Nobody - "Get back to us when you pull your head out of your ass and learn how
to properly quote in replies."

How about now?  :-)  Or am have I been unsubscribed again by some imposter?
;-)

Stan




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 19:37:25 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: i need off
Message-ID: <199803250337.EAA25556@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Name wrote:
> 
> how the hell do i get off this mailing list???

Kill the president.

Wm. Clinton 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 21:02:43 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Crypto, anyone?
Message-ID: <199803250502.GAA04800@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Name wrote:
> 
> i need off this mailing list now

Don't we all...






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mixmaster 
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 06:39:22 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: RE: Crypto, anyone?
Message-ID: <199803251435.GAA29995@sirius.infonex.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Name  wrote:

> i need off this mailing list now

No one can take you off this list. We don't know or care 
how you got onto this list. This is an intelligence
test. Until you can prove that you are not a clueless
fuckwit by disappearing, we will continue to laugh at
your sorry whines.

Life's a bitch. Deal with it.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "David E. Smith" 
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 00:57:24 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Prologue 13/0 -- SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS!
In-Reply-To: <3518AA73.4569@dev.null>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Wed, 25 Mar 1998, Potential Bill Gates Assassins Union (Local 709) wrote:

>   The beginning of my downfall as a 'command-line kind of guy' was
> when I was forced to trade in my XT with a 20M hard drive and 2M of
> RAM because of the requirement of the only ISP available to me
> that I be able to run Windoze.

Then your ISP sucks rocks. My ISP officially claims that Windows is
required, but they lie. Several customers run Linux, a few use FreeBSD,
and at least one runs plain old DOS 6.22.

dave "mmm.... sockets"





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Six 
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 09:25:48 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: [Fwd: CypherPunk Road Rangers]
Message-ID: <35193EC5.2537@sk.sympatico.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


----- Begin Creating Forwarded Message -----

[Bienfait Nutly News] THE RECENTLY DISBANDED CANADIAN CYPHERPUNK ROAD
Rangers drown their sorrows at the First Daily Bienfait Wine Tasters
Keg Party, held at the Coaldust Saloon in DoWell, Saskatchewan.

The RoadPunks were the toast of the town last week, when they acquired
the Road Rage Control Contract awarded by the Canadian Emotional Crimes
Commission.
They were also the toast of the town last night (any excuse for a party,
eh?), when the contract was revoked as a result of an internal argument
within RoadPunk ranks that turned into an ugly free-for-all on the 
TransCanada Highway which quickly became a real-life demolition 
derby which injured many innocent, passing travelers, as well.

The trouble started when some of the Canadian CypherPunks took offense
to some of the actions by various of their American counterparts, who
had been invited up to participate in enforcement of the new Emotional
Crimes Laws.
Tim May, the !Diplomatic Representative of the American faction, angered
the Canadians when he stopped a man who had cut him off in heavy traffic
and told him, "You drive like a Chinaman, chop, chop." The Canadians
were momentarily appeased after May agreed that, while in Canada, he
would treat people of Oriental ancestry with respect, and discriminate
against wagon-burners and rag-heads, according to local customs.
All hell broke loose, however, when May then fired several shots into
the side of a passing car which was driving in a perfectly normal
fashion, explaining, "He might not have cut me off, but you can bet
your ass he cut off someone, somewhere, sometime..." and then refused
to allow the Canadian CypherPunks to borrow his illegally imported
gun to play with.

Local and federal law enforcement officials were persuaded to drop
all charges against the RoadPunks, in return for Peter Trei signing
over the Canadian rights for use of the Adrenalyzer, which measures
the amount of adrenaline in a driver's blood. It is reported to be
an early prototype of the Trei Transponder, developed in a secret
underground CypherPunks laboratory, by Reptilian CypherPunks.

----- End Forwarding Created Message -----





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Toto 
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 13:53:24 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Student Refuses to Whore Himself, Gets Suspended
Message-ID: <35197DA9.5080@sk.sympatico.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Eric Cordian wrote:

> we have this story
> out of Georgia, where a student was suspended for a day for failing to
> properly prostitute himself to corporate johns on behalf of his
> pimping principal.
> -----
 
> EVANS, Ga. (AP) -- It's the real thing all right -- suspension.
> 
> High school senior Mike Cameron is serving a one-day suspension today
> for wearing a Pepsi shirt on Coke Day, an event school officials
> crafted in an attempt to win a $500 contest run by the Coca-Cola
> Bottling Co.

It could be worse. They could have transferred me to the "Home Shoppers 
Bargain Psychiatry Warehouse".
That's the worst of the worst. The Shop'ers have the poorest government 
on WebWorld. When the citizens of the former world governments got to 
choose their citizenship at the end of the Channel Revolution every
deadbeat compulsive spender on the face of the Earth signed up with the 
Home Shopper Channel Government. 
~~~     http://www.clas.net/~dave/public/webworld/#Chapter_4

> The Coke-themed day was part of an effort to win the contest. The
> award will go to the school that comes up with the best method of
> distributing promotional discount cards to students.

The Shop'ers ran ads showing Leona purchasing magnificent jewelry and 
other high-priced items from the Home Shopping Channel and the masses 
rushed to join the bandwagon. Some of the slightly more discriminating
people became citizens of the Consumer Channel, but they were few and 
far between. 
~~~     http://www.clas.net/~dave/public/webworld/#Chapter_4

The Sex Channel offered some rather interesting incentives for new 
citizens. They did quite well in the final ratings (what had formerly 
been called 'election results'), despite fierce competition from the 
S&M Channel, the Group Sex Channel, the Lesbian Channel, the 'Buck 
Futters' Channel, and a host of minor players vying for the same basic 
audience.
~~~     http://www.clas.net/~dave/public/webworld/#Chapter_11

> School officials also integrated Coke into class instruction for the
> day, invited Coke executives from Atlanta headquarters 100 miles away
> as speakers and gathered students outside to spell ``Coke'' for the
> photograph.

No doubt General Noriega was given a day-pass to drop one-pound
packages of Peruvian flake out of a helicopter, as loudspeakers
blared, "You deserve a brick today..."

> ~~
> Eric Michael Unamused
> T:.O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division,
> Room 200, Mathematical Munitions Addition
> Mathematical Munitions Subdivison,
> Rocky III Road,
> Corollary Corral, California
> "Drink What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Global Web Builders 
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 22:44:12 -0800 (PST)
To: (Recipient list suppressed)
Subject: Pauline Hanson's Newsletter - March 1998
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980325063945.00a9f238@mail.pronet.net.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


March 1998

Issue 1.8, March 1998

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
PLEASE NOTE: No unsolicited email is sent. If you do not want to be on the
mailing list please say "REMOVE" in the subject line and return this message
in the body.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear One Nation Supporter in NSW,

--------

Have you got your tickets for One Nation first birthday raffle yet?

The first prize is a QANTAS Global Explorer Holiday for two valued at
$12,000 - a 23 day trip visiting Paris, London, New York, Los Angeles,
Anaheim and Honolulu.

The second prize is a 7 day holiday to Hawaii at the Outrigger Reef Hotel
for two - value $5,000.

The third prize is a 7nights stay at the Novotel Palm Cove at Cairns - value
$3,000.

You can order a book of 5 tickets (minimum) at $10 per book (or $2 per
ticket) by credit card by phoning 1800 620088.

Winner's names being drawn at One Nation's Birthday Party at 7pm on April
11th 1998.

Winners will be notified by phone and mail with the results being published
in the Sydney Morning Herald on Friday 17th April 1998.

Be quick - order now while tickets remain!

---------

Pauline Hanson endorsed 12 new Queensland state candidates for the upcoming
elections last week.

One Nation now has over 40 candidates and expects to have candidates in most
of the 85 seats by the time the Qld state election is called.

Web pages:

Pauline Hanson endorsing the candidates at Beenleigh:
http://www.gwb.com.au/onenation/qldstate/been

One Nation Queensland State Election web site:
http://www.gwb.com.au/onenation/qldstate

---------

The issue of the MAI (the multinational's multilateral agreement on
investment) continues to create concern. For the most comprehensive set of
Australian related links on the MAI visit:

http://www.gwb.com.au/mai.html

----------

We hope to have the One Nation Federal Web Site up within the next few weeks
- in the meantime bookmark and visit this URL:

http://www.gwb.com.au/gwb/news/history

we will be covering Pauline Hanson's One Nation birthday party on her farm
live over the Easter weekend of April 10-12. Updates on this URL.

It is still not too late to make a booking - but be quick. Look forward to
seeing you there!

Phone: (02) 9976 0283

----------

GWB




Scott Balson





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: PRESIDENT 
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 16:22:21 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: [Fwd: School Sponsorship]
Message-ID: <35199F40.3444@SHITHOUSE.CUM>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


----- Begin Obvious Forgery -----

[Bienfait Nutly News] PRESIDENT CLINTON, TUCKING FUNNY-MONEY INTO THE
panties of the topless dancers during their performances at the CoalDust
Saloon's 'Paula Jones and Monica Lewinski Look-Alike Contest,' took time
out from the festivities to announce plans to help prop up the nation's
decaying public school system by allowing Adult WebSites to sponsor
the latest computer technology additions to the schools' InterNet
systems.
"We don't see any harm in this," Clinton told gathered reportwhores,
who were pretty much ignoring him as they watched the dancers, "since
the children won't be able to legally access the URL's being advertised
until they are 18 years old."

In response to concerns about the increasing Corporatization of America, 
Clinton explained that this could be viewed merely as a streamlining
of the already-existing system, by eliminating the middlemen (lobbyists
and politicians) currently adding inefficiency and expense to the
Corporate exercise of free enterprise.
Clinton explained that government and corporations were working toward
a model which worked well for railways when cabooses became automated
and the workers were paid to merely ride the train back and forth.
"We will still hold elections, and attend sittings of the House and
Senate, but we'll just play cards, or read, or something..."

Clinton refused to comment on the recent brouhaha over a student in
San Francisco being expelled for life for wearing a T-shirt with
an elephant on it during a Political Correctness Event sponsored by
the Democratic Party.
He did, however, comment on the expulsion of a student at the University
of California-Bezerkeley, for wearing clothes during the ribbon-cutting
ceremonies for the Naked Guy Boutique. Clinton, looking at photographs
of the event, said, "Hubba, hubba!"
The Naked Guy, also in attendance at the CoalDust Saloon, told drunken,
groping reportwhores of both sexes, "It is my belief that the current
anti-trust actions being taken by the DOJ against the nationwide Naked
Guy Boutique Chain is nothing more than the result of political pressure
by the Anti-NakedGuy Coalition." (The first joint action by a group
composed mostly of Fundamentalist Christian groups and Adult WebSite
operators.)

TToommoorrooww: Gates Pie-Boy Gives Clinton a Wedgie...

---- End Meaningless Blathering -----





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: hisi24@msn.com (Electric Email)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 20:25:35 -0800 (PST)
To: hisi24@msn.com
Subject: 68 Million Email Addresses - $99
Message-ID: <199803251971BAA12476@post.cvn.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging the freedom of speech 
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Amendment I, The US Constitution                                                                :-)
1 sending mes




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Name 
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 19:09:46 -0800 (PST)
To: "'Anonymous'" 
Subject: RE: Crypto, anyone?
Message-ID: <01BD583A.44BE1FA0.m.d.allen@popmail.csuohio.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


i need off this mailing list now

On Sunday, March 22, 1998 1:40 AM, Anonymous [SMTP:nobody@replay.com] wrote:
> andrew fabbro wrote:
> > 
> > I was just wondering if anyone would be interested in discussing
> > cryptography, personal privacy, security protocols, digital signatures,
> > anonymous remailers, digital cash, crypto anarchy...?  No?  OK, then we
> > can go back to spam, Microsoft bashing, calling each other "idiots" and
> > "chickens," and forwarding News of the Weird for no obvious reason.
> 
> What the fuck is crypto? Can you *say* that on a public mailing
> list?
> Isn't child cryptography illegal?
> Isn't sharing pubic keys a form of perversion?
> Is digital cash used to buy a blow-job?
> 
> "How can you tell when Windows is about to crash?"
> 	"It boots."
> 
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Nobuki Nakatuji" 
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 22:09:35 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Serpent - A New Block Cipher Proposal for AES
Message-ID: <19980326060902.29058.qmail@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Serpent - A New Block Cipher Proposal for AES

Over the last six months, I have been working with Ross Anderson and 
Lars Knudsen to develop a candidate block cipher for the Advanced 
Encryption Standard. 
Our algorithm, called Serpent, is described in a paper that will appear 
at the 5th workshop on FastSoftware Encryption.A reference 
implementation by Frank Stajano, a research students of Ross, is 
available here. 

The authors' home pages can be found both in 
http://www.cs.technion.ac.il/~biham/, http://www.ii.uib.no/~larsr/, and
http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/users/rja14/.
The authors' email addresses are biham@cs.technion.ac.il, 
larsr@ii.uib.no, and rja14@cl.cam.ac.uk.





______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Genocide 
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 23:52:45 -0800 (PST)
To: CypherPunks 
Subject: Cumman nA mBamm
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



	I heard of this person today, yes that is a name, she is supposed
to be a terrorist or something, does anyone have any info on her?

Genocide
Head of the Genocide2600 Group
Board Member of E.H.A.P

============================================================================
         ____________________
  *---===|                  |===---*
  *---===|     Genocide     |===---*  "Courage is not defined by those who 
  *---===|       2600       |===---*   fought and did not fall, but by those
  *---===|__________________|===---*   who fought, fell, and rose again."
                                       
Email:  Genocide@Genocide2600.com
Web:	http://www.Genocide2600.com

Check out the mud at:		genocide2600.com 6666
UIN:	1449140
============================================================================





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Toto 
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 22:46:43 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Prologue 14/0 -- Passoword: cypherpunks
Message-ID: <3519FA5E.50A9@sk.sympatico.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE-----
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 16:58:21 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: [Fwd: School Sponsorship]
Message-ID: <199803260058.BAA27456@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


TRUTHMONGER FOR PRESIDENT wrote:
: ----- Begin Obvious Forgery -----
: Clinton refused to comment on the recent brouhaha over a student in
: San Francisco being expelled for life for wearing a T-shirt with
: an elephant on it during a Political Correctness Event sponsored by
: the Democratic Party.

Truthmonger occassionally takes time out from being a loudmouthed pain
in the butt to illustrate a valid point. Free speech is free speech
whether it involves a Pepsi logo or a political logo.

A person could make an equally ridiculous and equally valid point by
suggesting the expulsion of black students for not showing up to
school in whiteface during events sponsored by the Aryan Nations.

Unfortunately the school officials involved feel justified in excusing
their repression of civil rights and liberties by downplaying the
specifics of the compromise of freedom they demanded of their students
in return for corporate funding.
Like gun-control and GAK proponents they are asking for only a "small
compromise" as an ante into a game which will eventually result in
the players with the largest pockets naming the game.

Even the most outrageous of silly conspiracy theory posts to the list
failed to predict the advent of mandatory-voluntary Coke T-shirts in
the school system. Is the cuality of qraziness on the list slipping?

: TToommoorrooww: Gates Pie-Boy Gives Clinton a Wedgie...





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 21:38:21 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Constable Hettinga?
Message-ID: <199803260538.GAA02112@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Finally, we have proof...

http://www3.sk.sympatico.ca/carljohn/rcmphate/rcmphate.htm





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John807601 
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 05:57:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: You've won!
Message-ID: <1558d5e1.351a5e36@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

 


To: John807601@aol.com
Subject: You've won!
From: John807601 
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 08:01:14 EST
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Click Here To Claim Your
Prize

http://www.downset.net




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Fyodor 
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 20:52:07 -0800 (PST)
To: Bad_B0yZ:;
Subject: Thought you'd like this alot (fwd)
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Heh... Wanna hear the C++ creator thoughts regarding the malevolent
creation, he made?:-)

=========/qoute/=======================/quote/====================
[snip snip]
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 23:31:02 -0800
Subject: Stroustrup's interview leaked...

On the 1st of January, 1998, Bjarne Stroustrup gave an interview
to the IEEE's 'Computer' magazine.

Naturally, the editors thought he would be giving a retrospective
view of seven years of object-oriented design, using the language
he created.

By the end of the interview, the interviewer got more than he had
bargained for and, subsequently, the editor decided to suppress
its contents, 'for the good of the industry' but, as with many of
these things, there was a leak.

Here is a complete transcript of what was said, unedited, and
unrehearsed, so it isn't as neat as planned interviews.
You will find it interesting...
__________________________________________________________________
Interviewer:  Well, it's been a few years since you changed the
world of software design, how does it feel, looking back?

Stroustrup:  Actually, I was thinking about those days, just
before you arrived. Do you remember?  Everyone was writing 'C'
and, the trouble was, they were pretty damn good at it.
were turning out competent - I stress the word 'competent'
graduates at a phenomenal rate. That's what caused the problem.

Interviewer:  Problem?

Stroustrup:  Yes, problem. Remember when everyone wrote Cobol?

Interviewer:  Of course, I did too

Stroustrup:  Well, in the beginning, these guys were like
demi-gods. Their salaries were high, and they were treated like
royalty.

Interviewer:  Those were the days, eh?

Stroustrup:  Right. So what happened?  IBM got sick of it, and
invested millions in training programmers, till they were a dime
a dozen.

Interviewer:  That's why I got out. Salaries dropped within a
year, to the point where being a journalist actually paid
better.

Stroustrup:  Exactly. Well, the same happened with 'C' programmers.

Interviewer:  I see, but what's the point?

Stroustrup:  Well, one day, when I was sitting in my office, I
thought of this little scheme, which would redress the
balance a little. I thought 'I wonder what would happen, if
there were a language so complicated, so difficult to learn,
that nobody would ever be able to swamp the market with
programmers?  Actually, I got some of the ideas from X10,
you know, X windows. That was such a bitch of a graphics
system, that it only just ran on those Sun 3/60 things.
They had all the ingredients for what I wanted. A really
ridiculously complex syntax, obscure functions, and
pseudo-OO structure. Even now, nobody writes raw X-windows
code. Motif is the only way to go if you want to retain
your sanity.

Interviewer:  You're kidding...?

Stroustrup:  Not a bit of it. In fact, there was another problem.
Unix was written in 'C', which meant that any 'C' programmer
could very easily become a systems programmer. Remember
what a mainframe systems programmer used to earn?

Interviewer:  You bet I do, that's what I used to do.

Stroustrup:  OK, so this new language had to divorce itself from
Unix, by hiding all the system calls that bound the two
together so nicely. This would enable guys who only knew
about DOS to earn a decent living too.

Interviewer:  I don't believe you said that...

Stroustrup:  Well, it's been long enough, now, and I believe most
people have figured out for themselves that C++ is a waste
of time but, I must say, it's taken them a lot longer than I
thought it would.

Interviewer:  So how exactly did you do it?

Stroustrup:  It was only supposed to be a joke, I never thought
people would take the book seriously. Anyone with half a
brain can see that object-oriented programming is
counter-intuitive, illogical and inefficient.

Interviewer:  What?

Stroustrup:  And as for 're-useable code' - when did you ever hear
of a company re-using its code?

Interviewer:  Well, never, actually, but...

Stroustrup:  There you are then. Mind you, a few tried, in the
early days. There was this Oregon company - Mentor
Graphics, I think they were called - really caught a cold
trying to rewrite everything in C++ in about '90 or '91. I
felt sorry for them really, but I thought people would
learn from their mistakes.

Interviewer:  Obviously, they didn't?

Stroustrup:  Not in the slightest. Trouble is, most companies
hush-up all their major blunders, and explaining a $30
million loss to the shareholders would have been
difficult. Give them their due, though, they made it work in the end.

Interviewer:  They did?  Well, there you are then, it proves O-O
works.

Stroustrup:  Well, almost. The executable was so huge, it took
five minutes to load, on an HP workstation, with 128MB of
RAM. Then it ran like treacle. Actually, I thought this
would be a major stumbling-block, and I'd get found out
within a week, but nobody cared. Sun and HP were only too
glad to sell enormously powerful boxes, with huge resources
just to run trivial programs. You know, when we had our
first C++ compiler, at AT&T, I compiled 'Hello World', and
couldn't believe the size of the executable. 2.1MB

Interviewer:  What?  Well, compilers have come a long way, since
then.

Stroustrup:  They have?  Try it on the latest version of g++ - you
won't get much change out of half a megabyte. Also, there
are several quite recent examples for you, from all over the
world. British Telecom had a major disaster on their hands
but, luckily, managed to scrap the whole thing and start
again. They were luckier than Australian Telecom. Now I
hear that Siemens is building a dinosaur, and getting more
and more worried as the size of the hardware gets bigger, to
accommodate the executables. Isn't multiple inheritance a joy?

Interviewer:  Yes, but C++ is basically a sound language.

Stroustrup:  You really believe that, don't you?  Have you ever sat
down and worked on a C++ project?  Here's what happens:
First, I've put in enough pitfalls to make sure that only
the most trivial projects will work first time. Take
operator overloading. At the end of the project, almost
every module has it, usually, because guys feel they really
should do it, as it was in their training course. The same
operator then means something totally different in every
module. Try pulling that lot together, when you have a
hundred or so modules. And as for data hiding. God, I
sometimes can't help laughing when I hear about the problems
companies have making their modules talk to each other. I
think the word 'synergistic' was specially invented to twist
the knife in a project manager's ribs.

Interviewer:  I have to say, I'm beginning to be quite appalled at
all this. You say you did it to raise programmers' salaries?
That's obscene.

Stroustrup:  Not really. Everyone has a choice. I didn't expect
the thing to get so much out of hand. Anyway, I basically
succeeded. C++ is dying off now, but programmers still get
high salaries - especially those poor devils who have to
maintain all this crap. You do realize, it's impossible to
maintain a large C++ software module if you didn't actually
write it?

Interviewer:  How come?

Stroustrup:  You are out of touch, aren't you?  Remember the
typedef?

Interviewer:  Yes, of course.

Stroustrup:  Remember how long it took to grope through the header
files only to find that 'RoofRaised' was a double precision
number?  Well, imagine how long it takes to find all the
implicit typedefs in all the Classes in a major project.

Interviewer:  So how do you reckon you've succeeded?

Stroustrup:  Remember the length of the average-sized 'C' project?
About 6 months. Not nearly long enough for a guy with a
wife and kids to earn enough to have a decent standard of
living. Take the same project, design it in C++ and what do
you get?  I'll tell you. One to two years. Isn't that
great?  All that job security, just through one mistake of
judgement. And another thing. The universities haven't
been teaching 'C' for such a long time, there's now a
shortage of decent 'C' programmers. Especially those who
know anything about Unix systems programming. How many guys
would know what to do with 'malloc', when they've used 'new'
all these years - and never bothered to check the return
code. In fact, most C++ programmers throw away their return
codes. Whatever happened to good ol' '-1'?  At least you
knew you had an error, without bogging the thing down in all
that 'throw' 'catch' 'try' stuff.

Interviewer:  But, surely, inheritance does save a lot of time?

Stroustrup:  Does it?  Have you ever noticed the difference
between a 'C' project plan, and a C++ project plan?  The planning
stage for a C++ project is three times as long. Precisely
to make sure that everything which should be inherited is,
and what shouldn't isn't. Then, they still get it wrong.
Whoever heard of memory leaks in a 'C' program?  Now
finding them is a major industry. Most companies give up, and send
the product out, knowing it leaks like a sieve, simply to
avoid the expense of tracking them all down.

Interviewer:  There are tools...

Stroustrup:  Most of which were written in C++.

Interviewer:  If we publish this, you'll probably get lynched, you
do realize that?

Stroustrup:  I doubt it. As I said, C++ is way past its peak now,
and no company in its right mind would start a C++ project
without a pilot trial. That should convince them that it's
the road to disaster. If not, they deserve all they get.
You know, I tried to convince Dennis Ritchie to rewrite Unix in
C++.

Interviewer:  Oh my God. What did he say?

Stroustrup:  Well, luckily, he has a good sense of humor. I think
both he and Brian figured out what I was doing, in the early
days, but never let on. He said he'd help me write a C++
version of DOS, if I was interested.

Interviewer:  Were you?

Stroustrup:  Actually, I did write DOS in C++, I'll give you a
demo when we're through. I have it running on a Sparc 20 in the
computer room. Goes like a rocket on 4 CPU's, and only
takes up 70 megs of disk.

Interviewer:  What's it like on a PC?

Stroustrup:  Now you're kidding. Haven't you ever seen Windows
'95? I think of that as my biggest success. Nearly blew the
game before I was ready, though.

Interviewer:  You know, that idea of a Unix++ has really got me
thinking. Somewhere out there, there's a guy going to try it.

Stroustrup:  Not after they read this interview..

Interviewer:  I'm sorry, but I don't see us being able to publish
any of this.

Stroustrup:  But it's the story of the century. I only want to be
remembered by my fellow programmers, for what I've done
for them. You know how much a C++ guy can get these days?

Interviewer:  Last I heard, a really top guy is worth $70 - $80 an
hour.

Stroustrup:  See?  And I bet he earns it. Keeping track of all the
gotchas I put into C++ is no easy job. And, as I said
before, every C++ programmer feels bound by some mystic
promise to use every damn element of the language on every
project. Actually, that really annoys me sometimes, even
though it serves my original purpose. I almost like the
language after all this time.

Interviewer:  You mean you didn't before?

Stroustrup:  Hated it. It even looks clumsy, don't you agree?  But
when the book royalties started to come in... well, you get the picture.

Interviewer:  Just a minute. What about references?  You must
admit, you improved on 'C' pointers.

Stroustrup:  Hmm. I've always wondered about that. Originally, I
thought I had. Then, one day I was discussing this with a
guy who'd written C++ from the beginning. He said he could
never remember whether his variables were referenced or
dereferenced, so he always used pointers. He said the
little asterisk always reminded him.

Interviewer:  Well, at this point, I usually say 'thank you very
much' but it hardly seems adequate.

Stroustrup:  Promise me you'll publish this. My conscience is
getting the better of me these days.

Interviewer:  I'll let you know, but I think I know what my editor
will say.

Stroustrup:  Who'd believe it anyway?  Although, can you send me a
copy of that tape?

Interviewer:  I can do that.








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 10:30:19 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Mexican Bugs
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980326103014.007bb190@otc.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



http://www.foxnews.com/js_index.sml?content=/news/wires2/
	
Mexican wiretapping scandal places
 political reforms in doubt
March 26, 1998

 By Mark Stevenson, Associated Press


 MEXICO CITY (AP) - When members of
 an opposition party burst into a secret
 government wiretapping station this
 month, they did more than reveal a
 political scandal: They exposed some of
 the deepest secrets of common citizens
 in the coastal city of Campeche. 

 The wiretapping, apparently orchestrated
 by the state government to get
 information on opposition groups, has
 spawned a scandal that reaches into at
 least four other states. In most cases,
 opposition politicians were the targets. 

 But nowhere has the damage been as
 great as in Campeche, where a powerful eavesdropping system set
 up in a private home had the capacity to tap virtually all phones in
 the southern city of 200,000 people - and record some of their
 darkest lies and infidelities. 

 "We stood there in shock, in rage, impotence, as we heard
 recordings and read transcripts of our telephone conversations,''
 said Layda Sansores, a senator for the leftist opposition Democratic
 Revolution Party who discovered the surveillance center on a tip.
 "There are difficult moments over the course of seven years, things
 you don't want to remember.'' 

 "We heard a tape of one telephone call in which a man said he was
 with another man's wife. The wife was there in the room with us,
 listening,'' Sansores said at a news conference Wednesday. 

 A local journalist present during the March 3 raid on the
 surveillance center was quoted in one wiretap transcript as denying
 accusations of rape, noting he `just had fun with' an unidentified
 woman. "We haven't seen him in public since,'' Sansores said. 

 The taping in the city on the Gulf of Mexico, which used
 sophisticated computer equipment supplied by an Israeli firm,
 apparently began in 1991. Three men caught operating the bank of
 computers and phone switches have been arrested and charged with
 espionage and criminal association. Two had worked at some point
 for state police. 

 "We are a small family in Campeche, and this hurts our very
 fabric,'' Sansores said. 

 Documents uncovered by Sansores in the tiny, computerized
 wiretapping center - including dozens of tapes and transcripts of
 her own conversations "and those of everyone around me, nieces,
 sisters, my parents'' - suggest the eavesdropping was paid for by
 the Campeche state government. 

 The current government, which took office in late 1997, has
 blamed the wiretapping on a previous state governor and said the
 current governor didn't know about it. 

 Experts and politicians disagree on whether Mexico is experiencing
 a surge in wiretappings and surveillance, at a time when opposition
 groups are threatening the ruling Institutional Revolutionary Party's
 69-year uninterrupted grip on power. 

 Sansores claims that there are up to 22 of the eavesdropping
 stations around the country, and mentioned four other states where
 her supporters or party colleagues believe they have evidence of
 such surveillance. 

 On March 18, authorities seized a network of phone-tapping
 equipment and secret cameras in Monterrey that reportedly had
 been rented by politicians and businessmen in the northern city. 

 Several weeks earlier, a top official in the Mexico City government
 and also from the Democratic Revolution Party - the first
 opposition party ever to govern the capital - said she found two
 tiny surveillance cameras in her office. 

 "There is a new way of doing things when a new group comes to
 power,'' said Joel Estudillo, an analyst at the Mexican Institute of
 Political Studies. "Politicians say, `We have to find out what these
 people have done''' in the past. 

 In a closed political circle like that which has dominated Mexico for
 most of the century, secrets like past corruption are often known
 but seldom publicized until a grudge or a competition makes such
 information a valuable weapon, Estudillo said. 

 "Those kinds of understandings and internal arrangements have so
 far prevented espionage from becoming a big problem.'' 
------------------------------------------------------------
      David Honig                   Orbit Technology
     honig@otc.net                  Intaanetto Jigyoubu

Maybe them boys in Jonesboro were trying out for Lon Horiuchi's job.










	















From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: emailprofits1@juno.com
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 01:43:17 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: as much business as you can handle
Message-ID: <37331546_44939965>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




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To: webmaster@sexlink.net
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Romulo Moacyr Cholewa" 
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 07:34:15 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: Re: Thought you'd like this alot (fwd)
Message-ID: <005501bd58cc$693f7120$0100a8c0@pioneer.rmc1.com.br>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Begin of forwarded email message -------------------------------

From: bs@day.research.att.com[SMTP:bs@day.research.att.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 1998 10:58 AM
To: albertoa@msconecta.com.br

Sorry to send you a form letter, but I have now received dozens of
copies of that "IEEE interview" hoax. Yes, it is (obviously) a hoax.
No, it is not a hoax done by me or any of my friends; had it been,
it would have been less crude and more funny.

If you want information about C++, see my articles and books.
You can find references, articles, book chapters, and even a couple
of genuine interviews on my homepages.

- Bjarne

Bjarne Stroustrup, AT&T Labs, http://www.research.att.com/~bs

End of forwarded email message --------------------------------


This is the answer, by himself.

Romulo Moacyr Cholewa
Home Page: http://rmcweb.home.ml.org
Corporate: RomuloC@MSConecta.com.br
Personal: RMCholewa@Bigfoot.com
---------------------------------

-----Original Message-----
From: Fyodor 
To: Bad_B0yZ:; 
Cc: cypherpunks@toad.com 
Date: Quinta-feira, 26 de Março de 1998 02:03
Subject: Thought you'd like this alot (fwd)


>Heh... Wanna hear the C++ creator thoughts regarding the malevolent
>creation, he made?:-)
>
>=========/qoute/=======================/quote/====================
>[snip snip]
>Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 23:31:02 -0800
>Subject: Stroustrup's interview leaked...
>
>On the 1st of January, 1998, Bjarne Stroustrup gave an interview
>to the IEEE's 'Computer' magazine.
>
>Naturally, the editors thought he would be giving a retrospective
>view of seven years of object-oriented design, using the language
>he created.
>
>By the end of the interview, the interviewer got more than he had
>bargained for and, subsequently, the editor decided to suppress
>its contents, 'for the good of the industry' but, as with many of
>these things, there was a leak.
>
>Here is a complete transcript of what was said, unedited, and
>unrehearsed, so it isn't as neat as planned interviews.
>You will find it interesting...
>__________________________________________________________________
>Interviewer:  Well, it's been a few years since you changed the
>world of software design, how does it feel, looking back?
>
>Stroustrup:  Actually, I was thinking about those days, just
>before you arrived. Do you remember?  Everyone was writing 'C'
>and, the trouble was, they were pretty damn good at it.
>were turning out competent - I stress the word 'competent'
>graduates at a phenomenal rate. That's what caused the problem.
>
>Interviewer:  Problem?
>
>Stroustrup:  Yes, problem. Remember when everyone wrote Cobol?
>
>Interviewer:  Of course, I did too
>
>Stroustrup:  Well, in the beginning, these guys were like
>demi-gods. Their salaries were high, and they were treated like
>royalty.
>
>Interviewer:  Those were the days, eh?
>
>Stroustrup:  Right. So what happened?  IBM got sick of it, and
>invested millions in training programmers, till they were a dime
>a dozen.
>
>Interviewer:  That's why I got out. Salaries dropped within a
>year, to the point where being a journalist actually paid
>better.
>
>Stroustrup:  Exactly. Well, the same happened with 'C' programmers.
>
>Interviewer:  I see, but what's the point?
>
>Stroustrup:  Well, one day, when I was sitting in my office, I
>thought of this little scheme, which would redress the
>balance a little. I thought 'I wonder what would happen, if
>there were a language so complicated, so difficult to learn,
>that nobody would ever be able to swamp the market with
>programmers?  Actually, I got some of the ideas from X10,
>you know, X windows. That was such a bitch of a graphics
>system, that it only just ran on those Sun 3/60 things.
>They had all the ingredients for what I wanted. A really
>ridiculously complex syntax, obscure functions, and
>pseudo-OO structure. Even now, nobody writes raw X-windows
>code. Motif is the only way to go if you want to retain
>your sanity.
>
>Interviewer:  You're kidding...?
>
>Stroustrup:  Not a bit of it. In fact, there was another problem.
>Unix was written in 'C', which meant that any 'C' programmer
>could very easily become a systems programmer. Remember
>what a mainframe systems programmer used to earn?
>
>Interviewer:  You bet I do, that's what I used to do.
>
>Stroustrup:  OK, so this new language had to divorce itself from
>Unix, by hiding all the system calls that bound the two
>together so nicely. This would enable guys who only knew
>about DOS to earn a decent living too.
>
>Interviewer:  I don't believe you said that...
>
>Stroustrup:  Well, it's been long enough, now, and I believe most
>people have figured out for themselves that C++ is a waste
>of time but, I must say, it's taken them a lot longer than I
>thought it would.
>
>Interviewer:  So how exactly did you do it?
>
>Stroustrup:  It was only supposed to be a joke, I never thought
>people would take the book seriously. Anyone with half a
>brain can see that object-oriented programming is
>counter-intuitive, illogical and inefficient.
>
>Interviewer:  What?
>
>Stroustrup:  And as for 're-useable code' - when did you ever hear
>of a company re-using its code?
>
>Interviewer:  Well, never, actually, but...
>
>Stroustrup:  There you are then. Mind you, a few tried, in the
>early days. There was this Oregon company - Mentor
>Graphics, I think they were called - really caught a cold
>trying to rewrite everything in C++ in about '90 or '91. I
>felt sorry for them really, but I thought people would
>learn from their mistakes.
>
>Interviewer:  Obviously, they didn't?
>
>Stroustrup:  Not in the slightest. Trouble is, most companies
>hush-up all their major blunders, and explaining a $30
>million loss to the shareholders would have been
>difficult. Give them their due, though, they made it work in the end.
>
>Interviewer:  They did?  Well, there you are then, it proves O-O
>works.
>
>Stroustrup:  Well, almost. The executable was so huge, it took
>five minutes to load, on an HP workstation, with 128MB of
>RAM. Then it ran like treacle. Actually, I thought this
>would be a major stumbling-block, and I'd get found out
>within a week, but nobody cared. Sun and HP were only too
>glad to sell enormously powerful boxes, with huge resources
>just to run trivial programs. You know, when we had our
>first C++ compiler, at AT&T, I compiled 'Hello World', and
>couldn't believe the size of the executable. 2.1MB
>
>Interviewer:  What?  Well, compilers have come a long way, since
>then.
>
>Stroustrup:  They have?  Try it on the latest version of g++ - you
>won't get much change out of half a megabyte. Also, there
>are several quite recent examples for you, from all over the
>world. British Telecom had a major disaster on their hands
>but, luckily, managed to scrap the whole thing and start
>again. They were luckier than Australian Telecom. Now I
>hear that Siemens is building a dinosaur, and getting more
>and more worried as the size of the hardware gets bigger, to
>accommodate the executables. Isn't multiple inheritance a joy?
>
>Interviewer:  Yes, but C++ is basically a sound language.
>
>Stroustrup:  You really believe that, don't you?  Have you ever sat
>down and worked on a C++ project?  Here's what happens:
>First, I've put in enough pitfalls to make sure that only
>the most trivial projects will work first time. Take
>operator overloading. At the end of the project, almost
>every module has it, usually, because guys feel they really
>should do it, as it was in their training course. The same
>operator then means something totally different in every
>module. Try pulling that lot together, when you have a
>hundred or so modules. And as for data hiding. God, I
>sometimes can't help laughing when I hear about the problems
>companies have making their modules talk to each other. I
>think the word 'synergistic' was specially invented to twist
>the knife in a project manager's ribs.
>
>Interviewer:  I have to say, I'm beginning to be quite appalled at
>all this. You say you did it to raise programmers' salaries?
>That's obscene.
>
>Stroustrup:  Not really. Everyone has a choice. I didn't expect
>the thing to get so much out of hand. Anyway, I basically
>succeeded. C++ is dying off now, but programmers still get
>high salaries - especially those poor devils who have to
>maintain all this crap. You do realize, it's impossible to
>maintain a large C++ software module if you didn't actually
>write it?
>
>Interviewer:  How come?
>
>Stroustrup:  You are out of touch, aren't you?  Remember the
>typedef?
>
>Interviewer:  Yes, of course.
>
>Stroustrup:  Remember how long it took to grope through the header
>files only to find that 'RoofRaised' was a double precision
>number?  Well, imagine how long it takes to find all the
>implicit typedefs in all the Classes in a major project.
>
>Interviewer:  So how do you reckon you've succeeded?
>
>Stroustrup:  Remember the length of the average-sized 'C' project?
>About 6 months. Not nearly long enough for a guy with a
>wife and kids to earn enough to have a decent standard of
>living. Take the same project, design it in C++ and what do
>you get?  I'll tell you. One to two years. Isn't that
>great?  All that job security, just through one mistake of
>judgement. And another thing. The universities haven't
>been teaching 'C' for such a long time, there's now a
>shortage of decent 'C' programmers. Especially those who
>know anything about Unix systems programming. How many guys
>would know what to do with 'malloc', when they've used 'new'
>all these years - and never bothered to check the return
>code. In fact, most C++ programmers throw away their return
>codes. Whatever happened to good ol' '-1'?  At least you
>knew you had an error, without bogging the thing down in all
>that 'throw' 'catch' 'try' stuff.
>
>Interviewer:  But, surely, inheritance does save a lot of time?
>
>Stroustrup:  Does it?  Have you ever noticed the difference
>between a 'C' project plan, and a C++ project plan?  The planning
>stage for a C++ project is three times as long. Precisely
>to make sure that everything which should be inherited is,
>and what shouldn't isn't. Then, they still get it wrong.
>Whoever heard of memory leaks in a 'C' program?  Now
>finding them is a major industry. Most companies give up, and send
>the product out, knowing it leaks like a sieve, simply to
>avoid the expense of tracking them all down.
>
>Interviewer:  There are tools...
>
>Stroustrup:  Most of which were written in C++.
>
>Interviewer:  If we publish this, you'll probably get lynched, you
>do realize that?
>
>Stroustrup:  I doubt it. As I said, C++ is way past its peak now,
>and no company in its right mind would start a C++ project
>without a pilot trial. That should convince them that it's
>the road to disaster. If not, they deserve all they get.
>You know, I tried to convince Dennis Ritchie to rewrite Unix in
>C++.
>
>Interviewer:  Oh my God. What did he say?
>
>Stroustrup:  Well, luckily, he has a good sense of humor. I think
>both he and Brian figured out what I was doing, in the early
>days, but never let on. He said he'd help me write a C++
>version of DOS, if I was interested.
>
>Interviewer:  Were you?
>
>Stroustrup:  Actually, I did write DOS in C++, I'll give you a
>demo when we're through. I have it running on a Sparc 20 in the
>computer room. Goes like a rocket on 4 CPU's, and only
>takes up 70 megs of disk.
>
>Interviewer:  What's it like on a PC?
>
>Stroustrup:  Now you're kidding. Haven't you ever seen Windows
>'95? I think of that as my biggest success. Nearly blew the
>game before I was ready, though.
>
>Interviewer:  You know, that idea of a Unix++ has really got me
>thinking. Somewhere out there, there's a guy going to try it.
>
>Stroustrup:  Not after they read this interview..
>
>Interviewer:  I'm sorry, but I don't see us being able to publish
>any of this.
>
>Stroustrup:  But it's the story of the century. I only want to be
>remembered by my fellow programmers, for what I've done
>for them. You know how much a C++ guy can get these days?
>
>Interviewer:  Last I heard, a really top guy is worth $70 - $80 an
>hour.
>
>Stroustrup:  See?  And I bet he earns it. Keeping track of all the
>gotchas I put into C++ is no easy job. And, as I said
>before, every C++ programmer feels bound by some mystic
>promise to use every damn element of the language on every
>project. Actually, that really annoys me sometimes, even
>though it serves my original purpose. I almost like the
>language after all this time.
>
>Interviewer:  You mean you didn't before?
>
>Stroustrup:  Hated it. It even looks clumsy, don't you agree?  But
>when the book royalties started to come in... well, you get the picture.
>
>Interviewer:  Just a minute. What about references?  You must
>admit, you improved on 'C' pointers.
>
>Stroustrup:  Hmm. I've always wondered about that. Originally, I
>thought I had. Then, one day I was discussing this with a
>guy who'd written C++ from the beginning. He said he could
>never remember whether his variables were referenced or
>dereferenced, so he always used pointers. He said the
>little asterisk always reminded him.
>
>Interviewer:  Well, at this point, I usually say 'thank you very
>much' but it hardly seems adequate.
>
>Stroustrup:  Promise me you'll publish this. My conscience is
>getting the better of me these days.
>
>Interviewer:  I'll let you know, but I think I know what my editor
>will say.
>
>Stroustrup:  Who'd believe it anyway?  Although, can you send me a
>copy of that tape?
>
>Interviewer:  I can do that.
>
>
>
>
>
>






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Trei, Peter" 
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 13:07:08 -0800 (PST)
To: "'cryptography@c2.net>
Subject: FW: U.S. Official Cites Key Escrow Flaws
Message-ID: <6B5344C210C7D011835C0000F801276601003642@exna01.securitydynamics.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Found this in sci.crypt. I'm suprised it didn't hit the lists yet.

Peter Trei
trei@ziplink.net


> -----Original Message-----
> From:	epic-news@epic.org [SMTP:epic-news@epic.org]
> Sent:	Wednesday, March 25, 1998 11:37 PM
> Subject:	U.S. Official Cites Key Escrow Flaws
> 
> 
> ==================================================================
> 
>        U.S. OFFICIAL CONCEDES THAT "KEY RECOVERY" ENCRYPTION
>           IS INFERIOR TO ALTERNATIVE PRIVACY TECHNIQUES
> 
> 
> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE                     CONTACT:
> Wednesday, March 25, 1998                 David Sobel/Dave Banisar
>                                           (202) 544-9240
> 
> WASHINGTON, DC -- A top U.S. official acknowledged more than a
> year ago that the Internet privacy technique championed by the
> Clinton Administration is "more costly and less efficient" than
> alternative methods that the government seeks to suppress.  The
> concession is contained in a newly-released high-level document on
> encryption policy obtained by the Electronic Privacy Information
> Center (EPIC).
> 
> In a November 1996 memorandum to other government officials,
> William A. Reinsch, the Commerce Department's Under Secretary for
> Export Administration, discussed the Administration's efforts to
> promote "escrowed" or "recoverable" encryption techniques in
> overseas markets.  Such techniques enable government agents to
> unscramble encrypted information and they form the cornerstone of
> current U.S. encryption policy.
> 
> After noting that government regulations permit the export of non-
> escrowed encryption products only to "safe end-users" such as
> foreign police and security agencies, Reinsch recognized the
> inferiority of the Administration's favored technology:
> 
>      Police forces are reluctant to use "escrowed" encryption
>      products (such as radios in patrol cars). They are more
>      costly and less efficient than non-escrowed products.
>      There can be long gaps in reception due to the escrow
>      features -- sometimes as long as a ten second pause. Our
>      own police do not use recoverable encryption products;
>      they buy the same non-escrowable products used by their
>      counterparts in Europe and Japan.
> 
> Ironically, Reinsch's concession is contained in a memorandum that
> discusses the Administration's strategy to "help the market
> transition from non-recoverable products to recoverable products."
> According to EPIC Legal Counsel David Sobel, the newly released
> document "suggests that the Clinton Administration is trying to
> sell key recovery technology while quietly recognizing its
> inferiority.  This approach will ultimately weaken the global
> position of the American computer industry and hold back the
> development of the privacy protections so badly needed on the
> Internet."
> 
> EPIC and other critics of current U.S. encryption policy have long
> maintained that "key escrow" and "key recovery" approaches
> compromise the security of private information by providing
> "backdoor" access to encrypted data.
> 
> The Reinsch memo was released in response to a Freedom of
> Information Act request EPIC submitted to the Department of State
> concerning the international activities of former U.S. "crypto
> czar" David Aaron.  That request is the subject of a pending
> federal lawsuit initiated by EPIC last year.
> 
> The memorandum is available at the EPIC website at:
> 
>      http://www.epic.org/crypto/key_escrow/reinsch_memo.html
> 
> 
>                              - end -
> 
> .




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Toto" 
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 14:50:40 -0800 (PST)
To: "CypherPunks" 
Subject: WordSmith Crypto -- Fw: AWADmail Issue 8
Message-ID: <00c101bd591a$1d493280$2a63a58e@uymfdlvk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----Original Message-----
From: Wordsmith 
To: linguaphile@wordsmith.org 
Date: Thursday, March 26, 1998 1:35 PM
Subject: AWADmail Issue 8


>                         AWADmail Issue 8, March 26, 1998
>         A Compendium of Feedback on the Previous Week's Words in AWAD,
>            and Other Interesting Tidbits about Words and Languages
>
>------------------------------
>
>From: Anu Garg (anu@wordsmith.org)
>Subject: AWADmail is back!
>
>AWADmail is back after a long hiatus.  Last week's theme, "Words whose
>pronunciations differ a lot from their spellings" generated a huge
response.
>Some sent their favorite words in this category (colonel coming at the top
>of the list), while others forwarded poems lamenting the intractability of
>English orthoepy and orthography.  Here are selected responses.
>
>------------------------------
>
>From: E. Richard Cohen (ercohen@aol.com)
>Subject: Phonetic Pronunciation
>
>In line with this week's critique of English pronunciation, dare I bring up
>George Bernard Shaw's plea for spelling reform with the word 'GHOTI"
>
>GH   as in   "rough"
>O    as in   "women"
>TI   as in   "nation"
>
>GHOTI = "fish"
>
>    Also noted by Marc J. Broering (dad@louisville.edu), Ted Schipper
>    (ted.schipper@utoronto.ca), (Tim Nelson) tsn@deakin.edu.au, Sheila
>    Crosby (sheila@ing.iac.es), Vimala Rodgers (vimala@iihs.com) and
>    martina@aol.com. -Anu
>
>------------------------------
>
>From: Derek Winkler (derek@aim-systems.on.ca)
>Subject: Ruminations & Ponderances
>
>It's funny that a couple of the words you're featuring for being pronounced
>differently than they are spelled have French origins. Being from Canada
and
>therefore being exposed to French, I look at the word and think "What do
you
>mean pronounced differently then they are spelled, how else would you
>pronounce oeuvre."
>
>------------------------------
>
>From: David Isaacson (isaacson@wmich.edu)
>Subject: Another Pronunciation for "chaos"
>
>One of the characters in Sean O'Casey's play, "Juno and the Paycock," (it's
>either Captain Jack Boyle or his sidekick "Joxer" Daly) regularly
>mispronounces this word as "chassis."
>
>------------------------------
>
>From: Fred Bartlett (fredb@springer-ny.com)
>Subject: Chaos
>
>When I traveled to the old Soviet Union to edit the proceedings of a
>conference on nonlinear dynamics, I was baffled by the (English) speech
>of my Russian colleagues. They kept talking about "House" -- that is,
>"chaos". It was all perfectly reasonable (though wrong, of course):
>transliteration to Cyrillic and then pronunciation as if it were Russian.
>
>------------------------------
>
>From: Steve Royster (roysters@sec.gov)
>Subject: Re: A.Word.A.Day--rendezvous
>
>I was willing to let oeuvre pass after I mistook it initially for the
French
>word for "egg."  I learned something on that one.  But isn't "rendezvous" a
>direct French import?
>
>    See next message. -Anu
>
>French, as the comedian Steve Martin has noted, is more torturous than
>English: "It's like those French have a different word for everything!"  On
>the album "A Wild and Crazy Guy," from early in his oeuvre, Martin
describes
>a man who dies trying to speak French.
>
>------------------------------
>
>From: Ken Maher (ken_maher@nhmbm1.dos.nortel.com)
>Subject: Re: A.Word.A.Day--chaos
>
>Your note on the need for pronunciation guidance in English reminds me of
>what I used to tell students when I taught English as a second language for
>ten years, mostly to native speakers of Spanish, Arabic, or Swahili.  All
>languages are thieves, but most languages have the good sense to hide what
>they've stolen by making it look like their own.  English, however, is more
>vain or, perhaps, careless, and often keeps the stolen goods in their
>original forms.  For example, when Spanish stole the word for driver from
>French, it changed the spelling to "chofer," whereas English kept it as
>"chauffeur."  This linguistic practice makes English one of the most
>difficult of the Latin-alphabet languages to learn to spell.
>
>    In polite company it is called borrowing.  Whether these
>    loanwords are ever returned is another matter.      -Anu
>
>------------------------------
>
>From: Bob Simmons (bsimmons@compassnet.com)
>Subject: (Mis)pronunciation Guide
>
>While I applaud your intention to include pronunciation in AWAD, I think
you
>should look for another source. Specifically, I have a problem with each of
>the last three days' pronunciations:
>
>oeuvre (oe-VRUH) -- since this one retains its French pronunciation, it is
>just about impossible to render in English.  When I say it, it sounds more
>like e(r)-vra (with neither syllable accented). The way you've written it,
I
>would say e(r)-VREW.
>
>segue (SAG-way) -- I have never heard this pronounced other than SEG-way
>
>rendezvous (RAN-day-voo) -- I would argue that RON-day-voo is closer.
>
>
>    While reducing a spoken sound to its written form is tough enough
>    in any language, it is nearly impossible to accurately represent
>    pronunciation information using only the lowest common denominator
>    of characters -- those found on a standard English keyboard. Not
>    all systems have the capability to show phonetic characters. (Once
>    Unicode is more widely adopted, it would be possible to show all
>    IPA characters but for now we have to do with the seven bit ASCII
>    character set).  It must also be noted that the pronunciation of
>    words varies a great deal from region to region and any single way
>    of pronouncing a word cannot be called the only correct one. In that
>    spirit, the pronunciation guide provided with the words here should
>    be taken as an approximation and not as a precise phonetic equivalent.
>
>    If you disagree with a given pronunciation or anything else in AWAD,
>    please drop me a line at anu@wordsmith.org.  Due to large volume of
>    messages, I can't always respond to you but I do read all
messages. -Anu
>
>...........................................................................
...
>Every other author may aspire to praise; the lexicographer can only hope to
>escape reproach. -Samuel Johnson
>
>To see previous issues of AWADmail, visit
www.wordsmith.org/awad/archives.html
>You can get them by email too.  Send a blank message to
wsmith@wordsmith.org
>with Subject line as: AWADmail nn, where nn is the issue number.  For
example,
>to get the first issue, make the subject line as: AWADmail 01 .
>





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Dave Del Torto 
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 04:37:28 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: anti-snoop RF detector
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Anyone have any info on this "Series Technology" company?

   dave

................................. cut here .................................
[ WhiteBoard News Excerpt: Wed 18 March 1998 ]

Taipei, Taiwan:

Taiwan's high-tech "peeping Toms" may have met their match in the form of a
pocket-sized device designed to detect pornographers' hidden cameras.

The "Discovery I" device, which resembles a pager, detects radio waves
emitted by the wireless remote-control cameras that criminal groups have
installed some hotel rooms, toilets and department store fitting rooms to
spy on unsuspecting patrons.

Pictures taken by such cameras of couples having sex or women trying on
garments are widely available in Taiwan's underground pornography market.

"Hopefully this device can give people more assurance when they are in
public establishments," said a representative for Series Technology, which
launched the detector Tuesday.

Several cases have come to light in Taiwan in recent weeks in which people
have bought pornographic videotapes, only to discover themselves as the
featured attraction.

Police are cracking down on the illegal practice, using far more
sophisticated scanners, and have made numerous arrests.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 17:09:42 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Junger v. USA Notice
Message-ID: <199803270109.UAA12162@camel7.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


To: pr_list4@samsara.LAW.CWRU.Edu
Subject: Press Release
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 15:37:38 -0500
From: "Peter D. Junger" 



			    Press Release


New Judge to Decide Whether Export Restrictions on Software Violate
   Constitutional Guarantees of Freedom of Speech and of the Press

Reply Briefs in Junger v. Daley Available on World Wide Web

	   Government Argues that Much Software is Harmful

   ----------------------------------------------------------------

	     Cleveland, Ohio, Tuesday, March 26, 1998
			For Immediate Release

            
		    For More Information Contact:
		    Peter D. Junger (216) 368-2535
		    

		    Gino Scarselli (216) 291-8601
		    


	Or see URL: http://samsara.law.cwru.edu/comp_law/jvc/
To be added to, or removed from, the list of those who were sent this
press release, please send e-mail to .

     _________________________________________________________________
   
Cleveland, Ohio, March 26 -- 

A status conference in the case of Junger v. Daley, the suit in which
a law professor at Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland, Ohio
seeks to enjoin the enforcement by the United States Department of
Commerce of the export regulations on encryption software, will be
held Friday, March 27, at 10:00 a.m. in the chambers of Federal
District Judge James S. Gwin in the federal courthouse in Akron,
Ohio.  The case turns on the issue of whether the publication in
electronic form of encryption software---software that is used to
preserve the privacy of electronic communications and data stored on a
computer---is entitled to protection under the First Amendment to the
United States Constitution.

Judge Gwin, a recent appointee to the federal bench who previously
served on the Ohio Court of Common Pleas, has replaced Judge Donald
C. Nugent as the judge responsible for the litigation. 

The plaintiff, Professor Peter Junger, who teaches a course in
Computing and the Law and who wishes to publish his class materials
containing some encryption programs on his World Wide Web server,
seeks an injunction against the enforcement by the defendant, Commerce
Secretary Daley, of the export regulations promulgated the Department
of Commerce that require anyone who wishes to publish encryption
software of the Internet or on the World Wide Web to first obtain a
license from the Bureau of Export Administration.

Both sides have filed for summary judgment.  Junger argues that the
freedoms of speech and of the press that are secured by the First
Amendment protect the writing and publication of computer programs.
The government, on the other hand, argues that computer programs are
not entitled to the protection of the First Amendment because they are
``functional''. 

Each side has filed a brief in support of its motion for summary
judgment.  These briefs and the complaint and motions for summary
judgment are available at  and
.  In addition both sides
have filed reply briefs that are now available at:






In his reply brief the plaintiff's lawyers argue:  ``Making software 
available on the Internet and the World Wide Web is publication of
that software, and publication in that medium is entitled to the
unqualified protection of the First Amendment.''

The government responds to this argument in its reply brief by
claiming that software is a ``functional item'' and thus not entitled
to protection as speech.  In furtherance of this claim it points out,
``Much software ... is designed to cause substantial harm,'' and that
``software can be used to invade privacy, commit fraud, and
substantially disrupt and endanger people's lives.''

``That is rather a perverse argument,'' says Junger, ``considering
that encryption software is used to protect against exactly the harms
that the government lists and that there is no law against the use of
encryption software, while, of course, there are laws against invading
privacy, committing fraud, and substantially disrupting and
endangering people's lives.  It is clear that the government does not
claim just the right to regulate the writing and publication of
encryption software.  It claims the right to forbid the writing and
publication of any type of computer program whatsoever without being
in any way restricted by the First Amendment.  There are, of course,
some types of speech, like obscenity, that the courts have held are
not entitled to the protection of the First Amendment, but no court
has ever subscribed to the government's remarkable theory that the
First Amendment does not protect functional speech.''

``My case,'' says Junger, ``is not just about the constitutionality of
the regulations forbidding the export of encryption software, though
that is an extremely important issue.  The real issue is whether the
First Amendment protects the writing and publication of any type of
computer program.''


				-30-






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "http://MusicBLVD.com/" 
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 10:33:01 -0800 (PST)
To: musicblvd@sparklist.com
Subject: Congratulations!
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980326191942.007a1210@mail.sparknet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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P.S. This offer is good only until March 31.  Don't miss out on the
celebration!  


*March 11, 1998

TO UNSUBSCRIBE: To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send an email to:
remove-musicblvd@sparklist.com and you will be automatically removed from
this list.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nms123@usa.net
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 19:47:02 -0800 (PST)
To: nms123@usa.net
Subject: !Accept Credit Cards! *When your Bank Says "NO" We Say "YES"
Message-ID: <199802045346.GAK09957@usa.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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And double-click here to visit our WEBSITE: http://www.vicom.net/nms/index.html

			http://www.vicom.net/nms/index.html




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Dr. Zeus" 
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 07:24:42 -0800 (PST)
To: toto@sk.sympatico.ca
Subject: Re: Youwon'thave?To?Totokickaroundanymore...
In-Reply-To: <35170F43.2C65@sk.sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <351BC489.3AC7@alt.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Toto wrote:
> 
> sincethedeathofGomez,myunclehashadadrinkinhishandconstantly,exceptwhen
> hehasdroppeditonhiskeyboard,fuckingitupandmakingitdostrangethings,suchas
> nolongermakingspacesappearwhenhepressesthespacekey,whichisnormally
> calledsomethingelse,however,Ican'ttellyouwhatitscalled,sincethekeyusedtospell
> itdoesn'twork,either.
> (hint,veavsi&vutthead,vadvoy-vadvoy-whatcha-gonna-do,whatchagonnadowhen
> theycomeforyou?,iputthequestionmarkinvyhittingtherightenterkey...)
> tousetheshiftkeyIhavetotypeanextraletter,sincetheshiftkey,leftone,doesadelete-
> vackspacevevoreaddingtheshiftedcharacter.
> thedeathofgomez,whichhappenedwhenthe?N?S?A-?C?I?A?(therightshiftkey
> addsaquestionmarkveforeaddingtheshiftedcharacter)
> 
> writingthisislikewhatmyuncletellsmeavoutveingonlsd,hee-hee...
> couldsomeonesendthisto-villg-at-microsoft.com,please,sinceican't
> typeayou-know-what-inthecccolonfield?(iputthatquestionmarkinvyhitting
> the?keywithoutdoingashiftkey--also,ifiguredoutthatthe'v'key,youknowwhich
> oneimean,doesa'control-v',sinceittriestomakethecharacters'vold'wheni
> hititvymistake.
> andcoulddavesmithputthisonhissightasprologue-numverslash0.?(thenumver
> onekeydoesn'tworkeither,vuticanputaquestionmarkattheendofasentence
> andthenuseparenthesiswhilesavingakeystrokevecausethekeyvoardputs
> the?inautomaticallywheniusetherightshiftkey.
> itisreallyweirdtypingthisstuffwithakeyvoardthatdoesthingsthatarenotdone
> thewaythatmyvrainandfingersarewired.ivetthatificouldputspacesinthis,
> thateveryonewouldthinkthatjohnyoungwaswritingit.
> 
> anyway,ifanyofyouarereally,reallystoned,sostillreadingthisvecauseyou
> understanditanddon'tseeanythingoddavoutit,couldyoudoakeywordsearch
> inyahoomountaindeworsomeothersearchengineforaprogramthatletsa
> personcustomizethekeyvoardsothattheycanusedifferentkeystomakethe
> charactersthatdon'tworkonthiskeyvoard,andsenditvyemailto-toto-at-the
> addresswhereallthespamvullshitandcrapolatothecypherpunkslistcomes
> from?--iamaskingyoutodothisvecausehefuckedupmycomputer,2.
> myuncleisjustanoldvrokendowndrunkenasshole,vuticanfixhiscomputer
> ifigetakeyvoardcustomizingprogram,sothanksifyoucansendit.
> 
> ifsomeonecoulddothis,theniwouldpromisetoquitaskingthecypherpunks
> womeniftheyarewearingpanties--i'mlying,vuti'mjustakid...
> ok,vuticouldofferyouavlow-jovifyoudoit,fromoneofvianca'schild-girl
> apprentices,althoughtheywillkillmewhentheyreadthis...
> 
> ok,i'mgoingnow,vutihopesomeonewillsendmeaprogramthatwill
> helpmefixmyuncle'scomputer,evenifhewilluseittospamyourmailing
> listwithstuffthatyoushouldvelisteningto,exceptthathemakesitsothat
> youcan'tunderstandwhathe'ssayingunlessyoureallydoputacorkin
> yourassholesothatyoucanquitthinkinglikeasheeple.
> 
> thanks,
> humangus-peter
> ?(anotherguywhosendsyoushitthatyouwishpeoplewouldstopsending
> toyourmailinglist,eventhoughithinkyouguysarecool,eventhegrouchy
> onesliketimmayandthespookyguyslikekentcrispinwhowouldprovavly
> veacircleofeunuchsguyiftheyweren'twatchinghimsoclose--he'sstill
> alive,likedalethorn.?)
> isn'titcoolhowiautomaticallygetaquestionmarkveforetheparenthesis,and
> canmakeaquestionmarkwithoutusingtheshiftkey?
> pps-ifyoudon'tunderstandsemiotics,thentherearekidsinsaskatchewan
> whoaresmarterthanyou,evenifyouknowavoutplutoniumdecayratesand
> wheretheyellowwiregoes.
> i'llquitveforeyouthinki'mascrazyasmyuncle.
> ppps-i'malwaysaskingpeoplewhopostfrom?A?(h?)?O?Liftheyarewearing
> panties,vuttheydon'tgetthejoke,andi'mnotsurethatido,either,vuti'mgoing
> tokeepondoingit.
> pppps-anarchistusedeltekeys,they'reimmortalcypherpunks...

Attilla is a faggot cocksucker...





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 11:27:05 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Fwd: 10 Laws the Net Needs - Article/Survey
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980327112541.0094a6d0@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Sigh.  Another control freak concerned about the anarchy of the Net
is doing a survey.  Voting is still open, and I'd encourage you to
go see the mix of opinions of the 8000 or so current voters
and add your own.

------- Forwarded Message Follows -------
From:
http://www.cnet.com/Content/Features/Dlife/Laws10/index.html


10 Laws the Net Needs
CNet Features

               By Susan Stellin
               (3/23/98)

               When the U.S. Congress passed the
               Communications Decency Act in 1995, Net
               activists staged a collective revolt. Protestors set up
               anti-CDA Web pages, launched campaigns to stop Net
               censorship, and hit the streets to voice their
               opposition.

               When the Supreme Court struck down the CDA,
               many online activists breathed a sigh of relief.
               But as it turns out, that law was just a preview of
               things to come.

               This year, there are more than 50 bills before
               Congress that propose some kind of Internet
               regulation. And policymakers from China to the
               European Union have been equally busy.

               Like it or not, this genie's been let out of the
               bottle; Net laws are on the way. So as the saying
               goes, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

               We've taken the lead on this one and drafted ten
               of our own Internet laws: proposals dealing with
               real issues like the proliferation of spam, the
               invasion of online privacy, and yes, the too-easy
               access to pornography. Some of our ideas match
               bills Congress is already considering; others
               address problems that Washington hasn't thought
               of yet.

               Brazen? You bet. In fact, not everyone at CNET
               agrees with all of these proposals--and you may
               not either.

               So we've decided to put them up for a vote.
               We've paired each law with an electronic ballot
               box. So exercise your (virtual) right to vote, and let
               us know how on-track--or off-base--our ideas are.

               The polls are open...



               Susan Stellin is an executive editor at CNET. The
               ideas expressed in this article are her own and do not
               necessarily reflect the opinions of CNET: The Computer
               Network or its executives, board of directors, TV
               hosts, public relations department, yadda yadda yadda.
               Susan's mom, however, agrees with everything in here.


For the full article and voting see:

http://www.cnet.com/Content/Features/Dlife/Laws10/index.html


--------------------------
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Debt Collectors 
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 13:03:36 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: GOOD NEWS ABOUT BAD ACCOUNTS
Message-ID: <199803272103.NAA28543@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




PROFESSIONAL, EFFECTIVE DEBT COLLECTION SERVICES 
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EMAIL   --  Please email more information.
FAX     --  Please fax more information.
MAIL    --  Please snailmail more information.
CALL    --  Please have a representative call.

Indicate the best time to telephone and any necessary addresses and 
telephone/fax numbers in the text of your reply.

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P.S. -- If you are not in need of our services at this time, please retain this 
message for future use or past it on to a friend. Thank you.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: wowcom@ctia.org
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 12:57:11 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: WOW-COM Registration
Message-ID: <0ee7b5057131b38MAIL@uunt.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Dear cypherpunks:

	Welcome to WOW-COM(TM), the Internet home page for wireless industry professionals.  You join thousands who enjoy free access to the wireless marketplace, up-to-the-minute industry news, analysis and opinions from industry leaders, career opportunities, and research from CTIA and other experts.

	When you visit WOW-COM(TM) in the future, you should arrive at the red WOW-COM(TM) professional page.  If your computer sends you to the blue consumer page, please use the site's e-mail system to contact us, and we will assist you.  
	
	We look forward you your continued participation in our on-line wireless community.

Sincerely,

The WOW-COM(TM) Team

Mailto:wowcom@ctia.org
http://www.wow-com.com









From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Toto 
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 21:05:57 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: GRAND JURY: Jonesboro Guilty, Society and Christianity Indicted As Co-conspirators
Message-ID: <351C9E6E.FF00180C@sk.sympatico.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


[Bienfait Nutly News:] A GRAND JURY CONVENING DURING HAPPY HOUR
at the CoalDust Saloon took to heart the Arkansas Govenor's statement
that,
"We need to lay the blame for the Jonesboro tragedy squarely at the feet
of
the culture that breeds this kind of response in a child."

The Grand Jury forebroad noted that the child perpetrators had neither
been
to Hollywood, nor to any art gallerys funded by the National Foundation
for
the Arts against the wishes of various 'Family Values' coalitions.

 "It's pretty clear that these murderous young monsters are an end
result of
the cultural influences they were exposed to in the course of being
brought
up in the community of Jonesboro. Accordingly we have returned an
unasked-
for verdict of 'guilty' against the citizens of that community, and have
indicted
two others who we feel acted as co-conspirators in this tragedy."

The Grand Jury released two beer-stained items of evidence that they had

used in their drunken deliberations:

* "Road Rage" gets the attention, but more rages are coming into
prominence:  Pre-pay Rage, Albuquerque, N.Mex., January (a man
wanted to pump his gas before he paid; fired several gunshots into
the clerk's car).  Late-Fee Rage, McLean, Va., January (former
State Dept. lawyer was not allowed to rent a movie until he settled
an old late fee; ran down the store owner with his car, knocking
him through the window of a nearby restaurant).  Rain Rage, Los
Angeles, February (as two men passed in the rain, their umbrellas
accidentally touched; one man then aimed his umbrella at the
other's face and thrust the tip through his eye, piercing his brain,
sending him to the hospital in critical condition).
~WEIRDNUZ.526 (News of the Weird, March 6, 1998) by Chuck Shepherd

* According to a September federal indictment in Des Moines,
Iowa, Kenneth Ray Bruner (who is the stepson of a Pentacostal
minister in Oklahoma City) led his seven accomplices in prayer
three weeks earlier, asking for God's protection just before they set
out to knock off Hermans Fine Jewelry.  Bruner acknowledged,
according to the indictment, "that they were going to do bad things
but that they were not bad people."  No one was hurt in the
robbery, and everyone was behind bars by the following day.
 ~WEIRDNUZ.526 (News of the Weird, March 6, 1998) by Chuck Shepherd

"If these were aberrations," the forebroad slurred, wiping drool off the
corner
of her chin and slapping the hand of President Clinton, who had passed
out
in the bar the evening before and stayed over for the trial, "that would
be one
thing, but these examples are just the tip of the iceberg."
"It has been obvious for quite some time that both society and
Christianity
are way out of control, and there is no telling how much greater the
damage
they cause would be if these two entities were able to operate without
the
calming influence of gun-bearing paramilitarists, who can only be pushed
so
far before they begin to push back, themselves."

The Grand Jury's released statement went fairly easy on the parents of
the
child warriors, pointing out that, from the moment of their birth, they
became
the SSN-registered property of the government, with the majority of
their
upbringing being controled by the many laws regulating the manner and
nature of education and discipline that their parents are
allowed/required to
provide for them.
"Had the parents taken a strong hand in the discipline and direction of
their
children's education, they would have been vulnerable to prosecution for
a
variety of serious offenses, and it is likely the government would have
revoked the parents' possession of the child-property in question.
"As well, most members of the community of Jonesboro, the surrounding
social community, and the Christian community, would have undoubtedly
used every available law and law enforcement agency at their fingertips
to prevent the parents from helping their children to escape beyond the
reach of 'We the Sheeple.'"

A barmaid with a Rose Tattoo on her butt nodded in agreement as this
portion of the Grand Jury's statement was read.
The woman had fled Jonesboro the day before the shootings with her own
son, having kidnapped him from a Child Services detention center, where
he was placed after a Christian neighbor had turned her in for allowing
him
to view her live-in boyfriend's Playboy magazines.
"I feel kind of guilty for leaving other people's children behind, to
suffer the
consequences of living in such a dangerous community, but I'm already
facing one count of kidnapping..."

An informal tribunal of drunks and drug addicts returning from the
restrooms
questioned the Grand Jury's failure to indict the government.
One gentleman paused from wiping foreign substances off of his shoes, to

ask, "Since the government is the chief instigator and enforcer in the
process
of crushing the spirit of children, providing funding for most of the
boxes that
their free spirits are crammed into, as well as hunting down and putting
in
more secure boxes those who attempt to evade their responsibility to
remain
within the boundaries set aside to contain their number..."
"Drawing outside the lines!" someone shouted.
Nodding agreement, the gentleman continued, "...then surely they should
have
not only been indicted, as well, and found guilty, but they should have
received
the same penalty as those who backed the actions of the Waco murderers,
according to the guidelines of the McVeigh Convention, as passed by
the Mulatohma Citizen's Tribunal presided over by Judge Bell."

"Well, we did return a few *secret* indictments," the forebroad grinned,
with
a wink to the gentleman, "but we're waiting for TruthMonger to figure
out
where the 'yellow wire' goes..."

In the efforts of fairness, so not to be seen as engaging in yet another
round
of all-too-common Suburbian Christian bashing, the Grand Jury also
released
evidence that communities and religions far distanced from Jonesboro
should
think twice  before gloating over "the anal-retentives finally getting
theirs,"
as a dark-skinned, slant-eyed member of an obscure religious cult
was heard to say, before suddenly dying of alcohol poisoning, whereupon
his soul went up on the roof and the bartender dialed 911, asking them
to
send an ambulance and a Frisbeetarian Priest:

* Dubious Salvations:  In January in Jerusalem, self-described
mystic rabbi David Batzri offered specialized blessings in person
or by telephone for those who have sinned by masturbation (which
he said is the principal cause of demons).  And in Hong Kong in
November, self-proclaimed "knight of God" Syed Atta
Muhammad, 32, was committed to a psychiatric center after he
assaulted a 22-year-old tour guide, whose breasts he thought were
too big to serve God because they made her look like a prostitute.
 ~WEIRDNUZ.526 (News of the Weird, March 6, 1998) by Chuck Shepherd







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: GILLILIGAN 
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 20:34:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Hi im Sandra
Message-ID: <2175a0eb.351c7db6@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

 


To: GILLILIGAN@aol.com
Subject: Hi im Sandra
From: GILLILIGAN 
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 23:22:59 EST
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

hi my name is Sandra i am an 18 year old model from Italy..Me and my friends
made a webpage with our pictures on it...tell me if im pretty..

Click here to see our
pictures




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Lucky Green 
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 16:21:19 -0800 (PST)
To: Bill Stewart 
Subject: Re: Fwd: 10 Laws the Net Needs - Article/Survey
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980327112541.0094a6d0@popd.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Fri, 27 Mar 1998, Bill Stewart wrote:

> Sigh.  Another control freak concerned about the anarchy of the Net
> is doing a survey.  Voting is still open, and I'd encourage you to
> go see the mix of opinions of the 8000 or so current voters
> and add your own.
> 
> ------- Forwarded Message Follows -------
> From:
> http://www.cnet.com/Content/Features/Dlife/Laws10/index.html

Predictably, the vast majority of those participating in the poll favor
statist solutions over freedom. Which of course holds true for the
population at large.

-- Lucky Green  PGP v5 encrypted email preferred.
   "Tonga? Where the hell is Tonga? They have Cypherpunks there?"





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: siowie5@msn.com (Electric Email)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 04:39:28 -0800 (PST)
To: siowie5@msn.com
Subject: 68 Million Email Addresses - $99
Message-ID: <199803284186MAA45175@post.compuform.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging the freedom of speech 
or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.         
    
Amendment I, The US Constitution                                                                :-)




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Mihai Tarabuta" 
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 05:15:42 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks-unedited@toad.com
Subject: sec file
Message-ID: <19980328131510.10572.qmail@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hi folks,
I'm a newbie so I my be in a wrong place,.
Anyway, can someone tell me what kind of program(MSDOS/WINDOWS) encrypts 
file(s) and as a result, it makes a file with ".sec" extension. The 
result file contains a header string "PNCICRYPT".
Thanks.


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 18240_es@GHNVIX.com
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 10:53:56 -0800 (PST)
To: Products@mail.mymail.net
Subject: Vitamins & Beauty Products Wholesale or Retail
Message-ID: <199803281924.NAA05797@mail.mymail.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Julian Assange 
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 22:59:10 -0800 (PST)
To: mgraffam@mhv.net
Subject: Deniable Cryptography [was winnowing, chaffing etc]
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


mgraffam@mhv.net writes:

> I figure the best we can do is to hide the contents of S with crypto and
> hide its existence through other means. Traditional stego works well 
> for this latter goal, but it does not give us a way to cough up something
> meaningful in place of S, which could be very handy.
> 
> In short, certainly the existence of S needs to be hidden, and it would be
> best to do hide it in plain sight as it were, in a big junk pile with
> everything else on the drive. 
> 
> Indexing this huge mess of data to allow for a practical system to work
> with is certainly a challenge, and in all likelyhood impossible given the
> parameters of the system.
> 

Marutukku (my rubber-hose proof filing system) addresses most of these
technical issues, but I'd like to just comment on the best strategy
game-theory wise, of the person wielding the rubber-hose.

In Marutukku the number of encrypted extents (deniable "virtual"
partitions) defaults to 16 (although is theoretically unlimited). As
soon as you get over about 4 pass-phrases, the excuse "I can't recall"
or "there's nothing else there" starts to sounding highly plauseable.

Ordinarily best strategy for the rubber-hose wielder is to keep on
beating keys out of (let us say, Alice) indefinitely till there are no
keys left. However, and importantly, in Marutukku, *Alice* can never
prove that she has handed over the last key. As Alice hands over more
and more keys, her attackers can make observations like "the keys
Alice has divulged correspond to 85% of the bits". However at no point
can her attackers prove that the remaining 15% isn't simply
unallocated space, and at no point can Alice, even if she wants to,
divulge keys to 100% of the bits, in order to get the un-divulged
portion down to 0%. An obvious point to make here is that
fraction-of-total-data divulged is essentially meaningless, and both
parties know it - the launch code extent may only take up .01% of the
total bit-space.

What I find interesting, is how this constraint on Alice's behaviour
actually protects her from revealing her own keys, because each party,
at the outset can make the following observations:

Rubber-hose-squad: We will never be able to show that Alice has
		   revealed the last of her keys. Further, even if
		   Alice has co-operated fully and has revealed all of
		   her keys, she will not be able to prove it.
		   Therefor, we must assume that at every stage that
		   Alice has kept secret information from us, and
		   continue to beat her, even though she may have
		   revealed the last of her keys. But the whole time
		   we will feel uneasy about this because Alice may
		   have co-operated fully. Alice will have realised this
		   though, and so presumably it's going to be very hard
		   to get keys out of her at all.


Alice:		   (Having realised the above) I can never prove that I
		   have revealed the last of my keys. In the end I'm
		   bound for continued beating, even if I can buy
		   brief respites by coughing up keys from time to
		   time. Therefor, it would be foolish to divulge my
		   most sensitive keys, because (a) I'll be that much
		   closer to the stage where I have nothing left to
		   divulge at all (it's interesting to note that this
		   seemingly illogical, yet entirely valid argument of
		   Alice's can protect the most sensitive of Alice's
		   keys the "whole way though", like a form
		   mathematical induction), and (b) the taste of truly
		   secret information will only serve to make my
		   aggressors come to the view that there is even
		   higher quality information yet to come, re-doubling
		   their beating efforts to get at it, even if I have
		   revealed all. Therefor, my best strategy would be
		   to (a) reveal no keys at all or (b) depending on
		   the nature of the aggressors, and the psychology of
		   the situation, very slowly reveal my "duress" and
		   other low-sensitivity keys.

Alice certainly isn't in for a very nice time of it (although she
she's far more likely to protect her data).

On the individual level, you would have to question whether you might
want to be able to prove that, yes, infact you really have surrendered
the last remaining key, at the cost of a far greater likelihood that
you will. It really depends on the nature of your opponents.  Are they
intelligent enough understand the deniable spect of the cryptosystem
and come up with the above strategy? Determined to the extent they
are will to invest the time and effort in wresting the last key out of
you? Ruthless - do they say "Please", hand you a Court Order, or is it
more of a Room 101 affair?

But there's more to the story.

Organisations and groups may have quite different goals in terms of
key retention vs torture relief to the individuals that comprise them,
even if their views are otherwise co-aligned. I'm not talking about
some mega-complex multinational 8 level hierarchy. A simple democratic
union of two or more people will exhibit this behaviour.

When a member of a group, who uses conventional cryptography to
protect group secrets is rubber-hosed, they have two choices (1)
defecting (by divulging keys) in order to save themselves, at the cost
of selling the other individuals in the group down the river or (2)
staying loyal, protecting the group and in the process subjugating
themselves continued torture.

With Marutukku-style deniable cryptography, the benefits to the
individual derived from choosing tactic (1) are largely
eliminated. Individuals that are "otherwise loyal" to the group, will
realise this and choose tactic (2).

Presumably most people in the group do not want to be forced to give
up their ability to choose defection. On the other hand, no one in the
group wants anyone (other than themselves) in the group to be given
the option of defecting against the group (and thus
themselves). Provided no individual is certain* they are to be
rubber-hosed, every individual will support the adoption of a
group-wide Marutukku-style cryptographically deniable crypto-system.

* Actually a complicated threshold.

Cheers,
Julian




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: mgraffam@mhv.net
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 15:05:15 -0800 (PST)
To: Julian Assange 
Subject: Re: Deniable Cryptography [was winnowing, chaffing etc]
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On 28 Mar 1998, Julian Assange wrote:
> Rubber-hose-squad: We will never be able to show that Alice has
> 		   revealed the last of her keys. Further, even if
> 		   Alice has co-operated fully and has revealed all of
> 		   her keys, she will not be able to prove it.
> 		   Therefor, we must assume that at every stage that
> 		   Alice has kept secret information from us, and
> 		   continue to beat her, even though she may have
> 		   revealed the last of her keys. But the whole time
> 		   we will feel uneasy about this because Alice may
> 		   have co-operated fully.

I've never really fully understood this assumption. It seems to me
that any person or group that would beat a person isn't going to
care much if Alice cooperated or not. 

All things considered, a group with enough power to grab Alice and
beat her probably has ways to escape punishment from the law, or
doesn't care about the law in the first place. 

In this case, I figure that their best option is to beat Alice everyday
forever or until she dies. Whichever comes first.

The longer they beat her, the better chance there is that she broke
down and gave them her most important secrets. Even if she can't prove
it.. so what? The rubber-hose group isn't exactly the boy scouts. They
beat her the next day too, this time a little harder.

Alice may hold up, she may not.. I don't really see the cryptosystem
helping here. You can't win a game when the other player doesn't use
your rules. You have to use the same set of rules. We know that
the rubber-hose wielding guys aren't going to play by Alice's rules.
So, the only way for Alice to win is to do the impossible (because this
is reality, not TV) and that is to grab the rubber hose and beat them
with it.

I don't think that any crypto can defend this sort of attack, because
it has nothing to do with crypto. Consider even a one-time pad. Alice
could calculate the needed pads that would turn her ciphertext into
other meaningful plaintext messages. So they beat her. She gives them
a pad.. and they beat her again. It won't end. They can never know
if they got the "right" pad. But it doesn't really matter, does it?

In my opinion deniable encryption is only valuable against a more or
less civil entity. 

Now, what might be useful is some sort of biometric info that is part
of the key material. Heart rate, brain wave patterns, maybe biochemical
information. As Alice gets beat the fluctuations in her body could make
it impossible for her to reveal the information. A sensitive enough
system might even stand up against stuff like intimidation and
nervousness.. a polygraph test can supposedly detect this.

If such a system were implemented, then this could render rubber-hose
cryptanalysis useless, or at least much harder to put into effect.

Michael J. Graffam (mgraffam@mhv.net)
http://www.mhv.net/~mgraffam -- Philosophy, Religion, Computers, Crypto, etc
Let your life be a counter-friction to stop the machine.
				Henry David Thoreau "Civil Disobedience"


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Brian B. Riley" 
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 15:30:29 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: Re: Deniable Cryptography [was winnowing, chaffing etc]
Message-ID: <199803282330.SAA11522@mx02.together.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On 3/28/98 5:53 PM, mgraffam@mhv.net (mgraffam@mhv.net)  passed this
wisdom:

>In this case, I figure that their best option is to beat Alice 
>everyday forever or until she dies. Whichever comes first.
>
>The longer they beat her, the better chance there is that she broke 
>down and gave them her most important secrets. Even if she can't 
>prove it.. so what? The rubber-hose group isn't exactly the boy 
>scouts. They beat her the next day too, this time a little harder.
>
>Alice may hold up, she may not.. I don't really see the 
>cryptosystem helping here. You can't win a game when the other 
>player doesn't use your rules. You have to use the same set of 
>rules. We know that the rubber-hose wielding guys aren't going to 
>play by Alice's rules. So, the only way for Alice to win is to do 
>the impossible (because this is reality, not TV) and that is to 
>grab the rubber hose and beat them with it. 

 The whole point is that since such a system offers no way to verify
that Alice has indeed at any point given them 'everything' she has to
tell, they will keep beating Alice; Alice, recognizing this at the
outset has no reason to give them anything because she knows that since
she cannot prove she has given them everything they will beat her again
and again no matter what she does. The idea of successive keys unlocking
more and more important data means that she can chose to give them some
of her keys and then just grit out the beatings til they either develop
conscience (unlikely), lose patience, (more likely), or figure they have
gotten all there is to get.

While this method guarantees a beating, it really does offer the best
chance of getting away with the withholding of the most secure keys.

The only chink in the system would be independent knowledge from a
coworker or some such that there is more there.
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=0JND
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Brian B. Riley --> http://members.macconnect.com/~brianbr
  For PGP Keys  

  "Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is
    no path, and leave a trail"  - Ralph Waldo Emerson






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Toto" 
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 16:45:46 -0800 (PST)
To: "CypherPunks" 
Subject: CypherPunks -- The Early Years Part II
Message-ID: <000101bd5abc$848b11e0$2763a58e@uymfdlvk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Eric Hughes, secretly writing Prologue 15/0 of SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY
DRUGS,
   quoted L.M. Boyd as saying:

 Among black bears, a mother rules a territory. When her
daughter is a year and a half old, the mother assigns a
portion of the territory to said daughter. This doesn't
happen to the black bear son. When he's about three years
old, he's just flatout driven off the property. Look,
there's one down at the end of the bar, saying, "My mommy
kicked me out when I was three."

~~~~
A Toto To Be Or Not To Be Named Earlier 
(aka - F. Bacon)






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: sexysusie18@mailexcite.com
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 18:45:09 -0800 (PST)
To: sexysusie18@mailexcite.com
Subject: MORE FREE PIX AND FREE MEMBERSHIP
Message-ID: <199803290254.SAA24584@zona.hayarkon.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: mgraffam@mhv.net
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 17:21:17 -0800 (PST)
To: "Brian B. Riley" 
Subject: Re: Deniable Cryptography [was winnowing, chaffing etc]
In-Reply-To: <199803282330.SAA11522@mx02.together.net>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On Sat, 28 Mar 1998, Brian B. Riley wrote:
>  The whole point is that since such a system offers no way to verify
> that Alice has indeed at any point given them 'everything' she has to
> tell, they will keep beating Alice; Alice, recognizing this at the
> outset has no reason to give them anything because she knows that since
> she cannot prove she has given them everything they will beat her again
> and again no matter what she does.

She has a reason to tell them as much as she can. When she tells them a
key that yields meaningful data, they stop beating her for the day.
At some point she will give away all the keys that yield innocuous or
less important data. Then she will say "I dont have anything else."
Which the bad guys figure she is going to say at some point anyhow, and
they keep beating her no matter what, as we agree they will probably do.

At some point, she will give up that most important key just to escape
the day's beating, or to get the knife removed from her hand.. If the
attackers are smart, they would leave her alone for varying amounts of
time, so that at any point the key that she gives might buy her a month
or more of pain-free existence. Maybe more.

If I were a bad guy, I'd opt for letting her live well for a few years,
and then one day we start the beatings again, as often as possible (short
of killing her). At some point, she'll say "The only key that I have left
is the most important one. If I give it up, maybe I'll get another 2 years
of the good life."

She would know that I would never let her go, and she would know that
the beatings would continue for the rest of her life. It simply becomes
a matter of how much pain-free time she gives herself. 

If the attacker beat her every second of every day, no matter if she
gives a key or not, then you are right. I suspect everyone would keep
their mouth shut out of spite, if nothing else. 

But if the key she gives yields meaningful data, then the tables
change really quickly.

There is another point to realize, there is a point where you simply
stop acting reasonably because of the pain and suffering.. and once
reason is out the window, expecting Alice to hold on to the keys because
she is screwed either way is a gamble. Sure, the scheme works when we
are being reasonable, but when you get the side of your head smashed
it, reasonableness is one of the first things to leave you.

This is why I think that pursuing a biological form of authentication
could be so useful. It could potentially make beating the person 
prolong the time needed to get the information. If the bioauthentication
system could take biofeedback from feelings like intimidation or anxiety,
and use these to alter the resulting "key" output, then it would actually
behoove the attackers to give Alice a nice comfy bed and 3 squares a day.

	"Sometimes," she said, "they threaten you with something --
	something that you can't stand up to, can't even think about."
	...
	"Under the spreading chestnut tree
	I sold you and you sold me -"
						- Julia, and a portion of
						  a song from "1984"

Michael J. Graffam (mgraffam@mhv.net)
http://www.mhv.net/~mgraffam -- Philosophy, Religion, Computers, Crypto, etc
Let your life be a counter-friction to stop the machine.
				Henry David Thoreau "Civil Disobedience"

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Janet Reno 
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 22:28:39 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Laws? We don't need no stinking laws!!!
Message-ID: <351E0477.5E1E@dev.null>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


From: "Janet Reno" 
To: "CypherPunks" 
Bcc: ,
	
Subject: Laws? We don't need no stinking laws...
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 23:59:15 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Announcing
Those who still labor under the illusion that the Royal WE need the =
existence of real, constitutionally enforceable laws to arrest, charge =
and financially ruin (conviction or not) those who oppose US and our =
financial supporters may, if they wish, go ahead and submit to the =
inevitable by reporting immediately to the Reptilian Nazi labor camps =
recently finished at Lost Alamo, and in Mule Shoe, Texas.

                   ******************************
             =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
                 INTERNATIONAL COMPUTER LAW OBSERVER
                      March, 1998 -- No.4
             =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
                   ******************************

---UNITED STATES---

[BOTTOM LINE]   UNITED STATES CHARGES 6 OFFSHORE COMPANIES WITH ILLEGAL
OFFSHORE SPORTS BETTING

[WHAT HAPPENED]  On March 4, authorities led by the FBI charged 14 =
owners
and managers of 6 companies with illegal use of interstate telephone =
lines
for on-line betting on amateur and professional sports.  All 14 =
defendants
are American citizens.  The 6 companies are located in Central America =
and
the Caribbean; some have offices in the United States.  No bettors were
charged.  Three of the 14 were arrested in the United States and the FBI
was said to be contacting the 10 who were known to be outside the United
States to "arrange for their surrender."  Web sites of at least several =
of
the 6 claim that they are operating within their local national gaming
laws.  The FBI and U.S. Attorney in New York City targeted sports books =
and
not casino gaming sites.   The U.S. Attorney's office said it had called
various telephone companies telling them to stop service to each of the
companies.  The defendants could be sentenced to a maximum of 5 years in
prison and $250,000 in fines.

In the only other federal action against on-line betting, FBI agents =
raided
the Pennsylvania offices of International Gaming and Communications =
Corp.
in February 1997 but no federal charges were filed.  That company had
operated a sportsbook and on-line casino in Grenada.

[WHY IT HAPPENED]  It is speculated by some that pressure from
Congressional sponsors of legislation restricting and/or banning on-line
gambling was behind the charges.  The Department of Justice has said in =
the
past that the federal Wire Communications Act is not written well enough =
to
support its use against on-line betting.  While bills to rewrite the Act
are pending, some in Congress and among the public are impatient that no
federal enforcement actions have been taken.  Others speculate that =
state
governments are concerned that their lucrative take from lotteries and
other state-sponsored non-sports betting could be reduced if on-line
betting is not discouraged.

[THE SIGNIFICANCE]  If the charges are not settled and are pursued =
through
trial and appeals, this could be the case to write US law on a number of
fundamental on-line issues, including jurisdiction and national
sovereignty, as well as on-line gambling.  It is doubtful that anyone
expects law enforcement to eliminate on-line gambling; the intent may
simply be to discourage its rapid growth, particularly in sports =
betting.
The government clearly is testing the reach of existing law; even =
decisions
adverse to it would be useful by identifying shortcomings in existing =
law.

[INFORMATION SOURCES]  For the news story:  www.nytimes.com and
www.cnn.com.
The six companies can be found at:
www.galaxysports.com (Galaxy Sports)
www.islandcasino.com (Island Casino)
www.realcasino.com (Real Casino)
www.sdbg.com (SDB Global)
www.winnersway.com (Winner's Way)
www.wsex.com (World Sports Exchange)

[CONTRIBUTING EDITOR]  Chadbourne & Parke - Contact Barry Nemmers:
barry.nemmers@chadbourne.com




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Announcing


Those who still labor under the illusion that the =
Royal WE need=20
the existence of real, constitutionally enforceable laws to arrest, =
charge and=20
financially ruin (conviction or not) those who oppose US and our =
financial=20
supporters may, if they wish, go ahead and submit to the inevitable by =
reporting=20
immediately to the Reptilian Nazi labor camps recently finished at Lost =
Alamo,=20
and in Mule Shoe, Texas.


             &nbs=
p;    =20
******************************
      &nb=
sp;     =20
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
  &nb=
sp;           &nbs=
p; =20
INTERNATIONAL COMPUTER LAW=20
OBSERVER
          &=
nbsp;          =20
March, 1998 --=20
No.4
           =
; =20
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
  &nb=
sp;           &nbs=
p;   =20
******************************


---UNITED STATES---


[BOTTOM LINE]   UNITED STATES CHARGES 6 =
OFFSHORE=20
COMPANIES WITH ILLEGAL
OFFSHORE SPORTS BETTING


[WHAT HAPPENED]  On March 4, authorities led by =
the FBI=20
charged 14 owners
and managers of 6 companies with illegal use of =
interstate=20
telephone lines
for on-line betting on amateur and professional =
sports. =20
All 14 defendants
are American citizens.  The 6 companies are =
located in=20
Central America and
the Caribbean; some have offices in the United=20
States.  No bettors were
charged.  Three of the 14 were =
arrested in=20
the United States and the FBI
was said to be contacting the 10 who =
were known=20
to be outside the United
States to "arrange for their=20
surrender."  Web sites of at least several of
the 6 claim =
that they=20
are operating within their local national gaming
laws.  The FBI =
and U.S.=20
Attorney in New York City targeted sports books and
not casino gaming =

sites.   The U.S. Attorney's office said it had =
called
various=20
telephone companies telling them to stop service to each of=20
the
companies.  The defendants could be sentenced to a maximum =
of 5=20
years in
prison and $250,000 in fines.


In the only other federal action against on-line =
betting, FBI=20
agents raided
the Pennsylvania offices of International Gaming and=20
Communications Corp.
in February 1997 but no federal charges were=20
filed.  That company had
operated a sportsbook and on-line =
casino in=20
Grenada.


[WHY IT HAPPENED]  It is speculated by some that =
pressure=20
from
Congressional sponsors of legislation restricting and/or banning =

on-line
gambling was behind the charges.  The Department of =
Justice has=20
said in the
past that the federal Wire Communications Act is not =
written well=20
enough to
support its use against on-line betting.  While bills =
to=20
rewrite the Act
are pending, some in Congress and among the public =
are=20
impatient that no
federal enforcement actions have been taken.  =
Others=20
speculate that state
governments are concerned that their lucrative =
take from=20
lotteries and
other state-sponsored non-sports betting could be =
reduced if=20
on-line
betting is not discouraged.


[THE SIGNIFICANCE]  If the charges are not =
settled and are=20
pursued through
trial and appeals, this could be the case to write US =
law on=20
a number of
fundamental on-line issues, including jurisdiction and=20
national
sovereignty, as well as on-line gambling.  It is =
doubtful that=20
anyone
expects law enforcement to eliminate on-line gambling; the =
intent=20
may
simply be to discourage its rapid growth, particularly in sports=20
betting.
The government clearly is testing the reach of existing law; =
even=20
decisions
adverse to it would be useful by identifying shortcomings =
in=20
existing law.


[INFORMATION SOURCES]  For the news story:  =
www.nytimes.com and
www.cnn.com.
The six companies can be =
found=20
at:
www.galaxysports.com =
(Galaxy=20
Sports)
www.islandcasino.com=20
(Island Casino)
www.realcasino.com=20
(Real Casino)
www.sdbg.com (SDB=20
Global)
www.winnersway.com =
(Winner's=20
Way)
www.wsex.com (World Sports=20
Exchange)


[CONTRIBUTING EDITOR]  Chadbourne & Parke - =
Contact=20
Barry Nemmers:
barry.nemmers@chadbourne.com=



 


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------=_NextPart_000_0072_01BD5AA5.83C87CA0--






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Julian Assange 
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 08:42:53 -0800 (PST)
To: "Marcus J. Ranum" 
Subject: NRA support for crypto [was Rivest's Wheat & Chaff - A crypto alternative]
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980323132339.006a03e4@mail.clark.net>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


"Marcus J. Ranum"  writes:

> >Since when have you been a cryptographer, Marcus?
> 
> Ever since I independently re-invented ROT-12 at the age of 12. :)

I guess that was a bit mean. I'm just not sure one is really a
cryptographer till one is spending the majority of their time doing it
and earning a living (or a lot of respect) due to the quality of the
work produced. i.e dabbling in cryptography != I've made significant
contributions to the state of the art (I know you have made useful
contributions to other parts of the security world). We .... is often
used as a psychological ploy, to convince people the argument that
follows is their own. Given that I strongly disagreed with the
substance of your message, perhaps I took a dislike to the We
.... business a little too eagerly.

> >> Has anyone considered approaching the NRA for support for
> >> cryptography?? If it is a munition, isn't our right to use it
> >> domestically protected under the second amendment, just like
> >> our right to keep and bear arms?
> >
> >Guns are made for killing people. Terrorists use guns. Terrorists
> >kill people. Cryptography is guns. Terrorists use cryptography.
> >Cryptography kills people.  What a fantastic public relations ploy.
> >The genius of it.
> 
> D'uh, that's what FBI is saying already!

So your suggesting putting your weight behind a tactical metaphor of
the FBI? Effectively letting them control the landscape of the debate,
by implanting into the public's minds that guns equal cryptography.

Ok.

You now have a situation where all strong cryptography is out-lawed
(err, when was the last time you purchased a A42 tank cannon?)
domestically, everything requires export permits (wadda ya mean I can't
post my 10 gauge to Zurich without a license?!) and weak cryptography
is exposed to a whole host of restrictions, including key size
limitation (small arms only), speed limitations (it's dangerous to be
able to encrypt too many messages quickly and automatically), usage
registration (1 32 bit 8 round IDEA cipher and 2 40 bit barrel-loaded
RC4's in farmer Jones' bedroom), cooling off periods (can't let people
encrypt on a 'whim), exclusion of un-desirables (you want a crypto
license and you haven't been in the state 3 months/had a psychiatric
illness/were convicted of an offence/are under the age of 21/listen to
NPR?!), necessity (I need that there 56 bit 8 rounder for rabbit
'crypting; I had to encrypt, officer, in a suburban environment - it was
self defence against hardened criminal hackers!).

> Cryptography is a tool for liberty! Cryptography was used to
> save lives in the war! It's been used throughout history by
> freedom loving men and women to fight oppression! It's as
> American as apple pie!

Breaking cryptography saved lives in the war, this is extensively
documented over hundreds of clearly defined cases [see Kahn's epic
work]. How many lives both-sides using cryptography saved is
intangible. I suspect the completely unreal situation of all-sides
having open communications would have saved a truly huge number of
lives.

> >> I will give up one time pad when you pry it from my cold dead
> >> left hand. My rifle will be in my right hand.
> >
> >Tell me this is fabricated Macrus.
> 
> I wrote that. What's your beef? Having a bad hair day or
> something?

 I honnestly believed you had been done over by D. Vulis there
	for a moment.

Cheers,
Julian.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 23:32:21 -0800 (PST)
To: dc-stuff@merde.dis.org
Subject: Global Internet Liberty Campaign Alert 2.4
Message-ID: <199803290731.JAA03918@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



GILC Alert
Volume 2, Issue 4
March 16, 1998

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Welcome to the Global Internet Liberty Campaign Newsletter
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Welcome to GILC Alert, the newsletter of the Global Internet Liberty
Campaign. We are an international organization of groups working for
cyber-liberties, who are determined to preserve civil liberties and
human rights on the Internet.

We hope you find this newsletter interesting, and we very much hope
that you will avail yourselves of the action items in future issues.

If you are a part of an organization that would be interested in
joining GILC, please contact us at gilc@gilc.org. If you are aware of
threats to cyber liberties that we may not know about, please contact
the GILC members in your country, or contact GILC as a whole.
Please feel free to redistribute this newsletter to appropriate
forums.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
  [A] FOREMOST NEWS
[A1] GILC to Issue Statement on Internet Content and Conduct
[B] ROUNDUP OF GLOBAL INTERNET ISSUES
[B1] Africa
[B1.1] Sudan's Muslim Sects Want Internet Ban
[B1.2] Ghana Brings Internet to People
[B2] Asia/Oceania
[B2.1] Singapore Requires ISPs to Install Internet Filters
[B2.2] Malaysia Warns Against Technology Without Morality
[B2.3] Hong Kong Labels Candy Site "Objectionable"
[B2.4] Australia Concerned Over US Domain Name Proposals
[B3] Europe
[B3.1] EU Critiques US Over Domain Name "Green Paper"
[B3.2] Russia Considers Amendment to Protect Internet From New "Mass
Media" Law
[B3.3] Kosovo Atrocities Posted to Internet
[B3.4] UK Called on EU Members to Allow Police to "Tap" Encrypted
Messages
[B4] North America
[B4.1] Senate Approves Two Internet Bills
[B4.2] FBI Chief Freeh Warns Against "Uncrackable Encryption"
[B4.3] FBI Rethinks Encryption Position, For Now
[B4.4] New Mexico Censors Internet
[B4.5] 100 Companies Join to Fight Encryption Controls



+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
CELEBRATE THE 50TH ANNIVERSARY OF THE SIGNING OF THE UNIVERSAL
DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS BY GOING TO THE AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL
HUMAN RIGHTS CARAVAN SITE AND JOINING THE THOUSANDS WHO'VE SIGNED THE
DOCUMENT.

THE CYBER"BOOK" OF SIGNATURES WILL BE CARRIED AROUND THE WORLD AND
SIGNED BY DIGNATARIES, CELEBRITIES, POLITICIANS AND OTHERS.

REAFFIRM THE WORLD'S DEDICATION TO HUMAN RIGHTS AND CIVIL LIBERTIES!!!

http://www.rights.amnesty.org/english/signup/index.html
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 [A] FOREMOST NEWS
[A1] GILC to Issue Statement on Internet Content and Conduct

Preparing for an OECD one day meeting on "International Co-operation
Concerning Content and Conduct on the Internet", 25th March 1998, in
Paris, members of the Global Internet Liberty Campaign will soon issue
"Content and Conduct on the Internet: The Impact of Self-Regulation
and Filtering on Human Rights to Freedom of Expression."  Among other
things, the statement notes: "Global rating or labeling systems
squelch the free flow of information: Efforts to force all Internet
speech to be labeled or rated according to a single classification
system distorts the fundamental cultural diversity of the Internet and
will lead to domination of one set of political or moral viewpoints.
Such systems will either be easy to use and not have enough categories
for all cultures or it will have so many categories to cater for all
cultures that it will be unusable. These systems are antithetical to
the Internet and should be rejected."

A full report on the OECD meeting and GILC's presentation will appear
in the next Alert.

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[B] ROUNDUP OF GLOBAL INTERNET ISSUES
[B1] Africa
[B1.1] Sudan's Muslim Sects Want Internet Ban

Islamic clerics, in recent calls, have focused their ire on Sudan's
single Internet Service Provider, Sudanet.  Inter Press Service quotes
Mohamed Salih Hassan, a cleric of the influential Ansar Muslim sect,
who sees the Internet as "pollutive" and fears that Sudanese youth are
in jeopardy: "The Muslim people should respect the faith, and not
allow such information to reach their families.  If an uncontrollable
system like the Internet is introduced in society it will be very
difficult for us to preach the Kingdom of Allah."  The battle to ban
the Internet will be difficult, however.  The newspaper interviewed
people already connected to the Internet; one, who used an alias
because he feared repercussions, said: "The Internet is not against
anybody. It is a new information system that feeds the world with
information . . . . The Internet will bring peace to all of us.  It
makes me feel like I am living in a world without borders."
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
[B1.2] Ghana Brings Internet to People

While most people in Ghana do not have access to their own computers
(because of the combined problems of illiteracy, poverty and weak
electrical supplies), they will soon have access to the Internet.
Several Internet Service Providers are looking for ways to bring the
Internet to the average Ghanaian, through channels that people are
already familiar with: communication centers that offer secretarial,
word-processing, telephone and fax services.  Inter Press Service
reports "Africa Online will create a domain for each of the
participating communications centers. The center, in turn, will be
free to create E-mail addresses for its customers, who can then send
and receive messages from their address at fixed costs."  ISPs are
also looking to provide access to school children.  Network Computer
Systems, another ISP, has recently offered to provide free Internet
connections for a year to 100 high schools around the country.

Visit the Network Computer Systems homepage: http://www.ghana.com

Visit Africa Online: http://www.africaonline.com
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[B2] Asia/Oceania
[B2.1] Singapore Requires ISPs to Install Internet Filters

Singapore, which already censors the Internet, books and movies will
require its Internet Service Providers to install, at the server
level, software that filters "inappropriate material."  Reuters quoted
Information and Arts Minister George Yeo's address to parliament where
he said that a software package, like Netnanny was "in the interest of
cleaner, more sanitized internet service."  A few days after that
speech, Bill Gates said, during a one-day trip to the country: "I have
no doubt Singapore, given it is a forward-looking country . . . will
avoid doing something that will be a major roadblock."

Read http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980319/singapore__1.html

Read
http://www.wired.com/news/news/email/other/politics/story/10944.html

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[B2.2] Malaysia Warns Against Technology Without Morality

With Internet cafes springing up in suburbs all over Malaysia,
students are beginning to send E-mail, chat in chat rooms, and
eventually view sexually explicit material.  To officials in the
predominantly Moslem country, this presents problems.  The nation's
censors already take pains to keep movies free from "sex scenes" and
magazines bare-breastless. The Associated Press quotes Junid Megat
Ayob, Consumer Affairs Minister, who wants stricter controls on the
Internet because he sees his mission as keeping youth from "poisoning
their minds with filth."  To aid in his mission, Cybercafes must now
post with authorities about US$5,100 to ensure that their computers
remain free from pornography.  If the Cafes allow access to sexually
explicit material, the government would confiscate the money.

Read http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/10712.html

Read
http://search.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WAPO/19980314/V000800-031498-i
dx.html
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
[B2.3] Hong Kong Labels Candy Site "Objectionable"

In another attempt to block "objectionable material" from the
Internet, Hong Kong has censored a Hershey's candy Web site. The
Television and Licensing Authority (TLA) put the "Smarties" candy site
on a list of 1,000 sites which it deemed unfit for children.  CNET
quoted Raymond Yip, of TLA: "We need to investigate the case.  It is
probably a typing error on our part."

Read http://www.news.com/news/item/textonly/0,25,20039,00.html?pfv

The "unfit" Web site is: http://www.smarties.com

Read EPIC's "Faulty Filters" report:
http://www2.epic.org/reports/filter-report.html
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[B2.4] Australia Concerned Over US Domain Name Proposals

The United States has recently proposed a centralized plan to regulate
Internet issues.  Besides changing the way persons register Internet
Domain Names, a US-based corporation would administer the names and
subject any disputes to US law. Fears are that the plan would
"effectively ensure US jurisdiction over trademark issues and dispute
resolution processes," said Senator Richard Alson, the Minister for
Communications, the Information Economy and the Arts, in a press
release. He added: "We need to ensure that the views of Australian
stake holders, and the Australian Government, are fully considered in
decisions to reform the international system."

Read the Press Release: http://www.dca.gov.au/mediarel/98/028.html

Go to Electronic Frontiers Australia for more news on related issues:
http://www.efa.org.au

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[B3] Europe
[B3.1] EU Critiques US Over Domain Name "Green Paper"

The battle against the US Domain Name proposals is also being waged on
European soil.   The European Commission has accused the US of
desiring to keep the international network of computers under domestic
control, and thereby, creating a monopoly.  The European Report
announced that "the EU and its Member States are calling for a
re-balancing of interest and responsibilities in recognition of the
Internet's international character."  They want balanced and fair
participation by the private sector in Internet management. In a
"green paper" published in January, the US suggested that the private
sector begin controlling essential pieces of the system, instead of
the US government.  The "essential pieces" are "generic top-level
domains": for example, ".net," ".org," and ".com."  The Deutsche
Presse-Agentur quotes Professor of Computer Science, Werner Zorn of
the University of Karlsruhe in Germany: "The U.S. government is trying
to prevent foreign dominance on the Internet." Another motive, adds
Zorn, is retaining a lucrative source of income.  Today, US-based
Network Solutions charges $100 per domain name registered.

Read the International Council of Registrars' response to the US
"Green Paper": http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/980323/core_1.html

Read the CATO Institute's "INTERNET DOMAIN NAMES:
Privatization, Competition, and Freedom of Expression":
http://www.cato.org/pubs/briefs/bp-033es.html
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
[B3.2] Russia Considers Amendment to Protect Internet From New "Mass
Media" Law

The Moscow Times reported that the Russian Duma has recently proposed
a new law on "mass media that could place a roadblock in the path of
Russia's fledgling web publishers, from individuals with personal home
pages to large corporations blazing the trails of electronic
commerce."  Duma deputy, Y.M. Nesterov, however, suggested an
amendment excluding any mention of "computer information" from the
bill.  Furthermore, the chair of the committee preparing the bill,
displayed some interest in the Internet question.  The Communication
Committee will examine that and other amendments to the "mass media"
bill and draft a second bill for final hearing.  As of yet, nothing
has been announced.

Latest information in Russian:
http://www.cityline.ru/politika/media/media.html
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[B3.3] Kosovo Atrocities Posted to Internet

In the remote parts of Yugoslavia, unreliable links to the outside
world and the tight-lipped state news agency, Tanjug, have made a
journalist's job difficult. But in many situations, the Internet
continues to provide detailed and timely reports.  The Scotsman
reports that Web sites publish, without the "benefit" of censorship,
and post eyewitness accounts and pictures of "men, women, and children
with eyes gouged out, throats cut, and grenade and gunshot wounds."
The Internet accounts guarantee that traditional sources of
information will not dictate the spread of complete and accurate
information; therefore, "there can be no doubt whatsoever of the
veracity of claims made by Albanians in Kosovo."

Visit: http://www.kosova.com

Visit: http://www.albanian.com

Read the GILC Statement on Human Rights and the Internet:
http://www.gilc.org/news/gilc-ep-statement-0198.html
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
[B3.4] UK Called on EU Members to Allow Police to "Tap" Encrypted
Messages

Following the GILC statement on encryption, European Voice reported
that officials from the UK desire that, in particular situations,
government officials should be authorized to tap encrypted E-mail
messages sent through the Internet.  Citing concerns with terrorists,
the Mafia, and other criminal organizations, UK officials warned:
"Where an encryption key is used for confidentiality purposes, it may
be necessary for law enforcement agencies to have lawful access . . .
.. either overt[ly] or covert[ly]."  For an opposing view, European
Voice quoted the Business Software Alliance: "Without strong
encryption, businesses and individuals will not entrust their valuable
proprietary information, creative content, and sensitive information
to electronic networks. The result will be that the full potential for
electronic commerce, personal growth and government efficiency and
other benefits of the information society will be delayed or lost
altogether." According to Yaman Akdeniz of Cyber-Rights &
Cyber-Liberties (UK) the current UK policy is still not clear: "We
will have to wait and see the new policy; and I, unfortunately,
believe that it will still be a system which favors key escrow."

Read the GILC Statement on possible UK Cryptography Policy:
http://www.gilc.org/crypto/uk/gilc-dti-statement-298.html

Read BBC News Coverage of the GILC member statement, "UK government
dithers on encryption regulation," Feb.20, 1998.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/special_report/1998/encryption/newsid
_58000/58499.stm

Read GILC's Cryptography and Liberty: An International Survey of
Encryption Policy, February 1998, at
http://www.gilc.org/crypto/crypto-survey.html.

Read Cyber-Rights & Cyber-Liberties (UK), "First Report on UK
Encryption Policy" is available at
http://www.leeds.ac.uk/law/pgs/yaman/ukdtirep.htm.

Read "Scrambling for Safety" Conference Web site is at
http://www.privacy.org/pi/conference/dti/.

Read the Walsh Report, "Review of policy relating to encryption
technologies": http://www.efa.org.au/Issues/Crypto/Walsh/

Read Kryptographie, Cryptography resources in German from FITUG, at
http://www.fitug.de/ulf/krypto/.

Britain has delayed any encryption proposals:
http://www.techweb.com/wire/story/TWB19980219S0008

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

[B4] North America
[B4.1] Senate Approves Two Internet Bills

The Senate Commerce Committee approved on a voice vote two bills that
restrict speech on the Internet.  The first was Senator John McCain's
(which would limit student access to constitutionally protected speech
in schools and libraries) and the other was Senator Dan Coats's (which
would censor legitimate adult speech).  McCain's bill requires schools
and libraries, which receive federal subsidies for Internet
connections, to install filtering software.  Senator Conrad Burns,
however, offered an amendment that would not require the use of
filtering software, but would require that schools have some kind of
Internet policy which shields students from sexually explicit
material.  Senator Coats's bill would censor commercial distribution
of "harmful material" to people under 17 years of age.  Senator Dan
Wyden, the sole dissenter on the Coats bill, criticized Coats's
attempt as a "one size fits all" model.

Read the ACLU Press Release: http://www.aclu.org/news/n031298b.html

Go to the Internet Free Expression Alliance for more news on the
bills: http://www.ifea.net

Go to the EPIC site for the text of the bills: http://www.epic.org

Read EFF's Press Release:
http://www.eff.org/pub/Censorship/Internet_censorship_bills/1998_bills
/19980312_eff.statement

Go to CDT's site for more information: http://www.cdt.org/speech
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
[B4.2] FBI Chief Freeh Warns Against "Uncrackable Encryption"

Before a Senate Appropriations Committee Subcommittee on Commerce,
Justice, State and Judiciary on March 3rd, Louis Freeh, director of
the FBI, argued that online anonymity imperiled FBI criminal
investigations and put children in danger: "We would encourage the
Internet provider industry to maintain subscriber and call
information.  We certainly hope it would be done, even on a voluntary
basis." Freeh added: "Uncrackable encryption allows, and will continue
to allow with increasing regularity, drug lords, terrorists, and even
violent gangs to communicate about their criminal intentions with
impunity."

The ACLU challenged these scare tactics with "Big Brother in the
Wires": http://www.aclu.org/issues/cyber/wiretap_brother.html
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
[B4.3] FBI Rethinks Encryption Position, For Now

The FBI has had a long history of arguing against strong encryption.
Nevertheless, on March 17th, a Justice Department official, Robert
Litt, the deputy assistant attorney general of the criminal division,
remarked to a Senate Judiciary subcommittee hearing on the
constitutional issues raised by government encryption controls: "We
are not looking for any mandatory controls domestically at this time."
The CyberTimes reported that, for now, he/the FBI/the Clinton
administration is "retreating from legislation that would give 'law
enforcers access to encrypted computer data and communications.'"

CyberTimes:
http://www.nytimes.com/library/tech/98/03/cyber/articles/18encrypt.htm
l

CNET's article: http://www.news.com/news/item/0,4,20149,00.html

For a full transcript of the congressional testimony:
http://www.computerprivacy.org/archive/03171998-1

Legal scholars respond to Litt:
http://www.computerprivacy.org/archive/03231998-1.shtml

ACLU's "White Paper" on Clinton's encryption policy:
http://www.aclu.org/news/n031798b.html
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
[B4.4] New Mexico Censors Internet

The Electronic Frontier Foundation will challenge New Mexico's "Net
Indecency Law."  Earlier this month, Governor Gary Johnson signed a
bill that suffers from the same constitutional defects that caused the
Supreme Court to strike down the Federal Communications Decency Act in
June of 1997.  In a letter to Johnson, Barry Steinhardt, president of
EFF (a GILC founding member) wrote, "the bill is patently
unconstitutional and represents a threat to freedom of expression, not
only in New Mexico, but across the country."
EFF's letter:
http://www.eff.org/pub/State_and_local/NM/Censorship/Internet_censorsh
ip_bills/1998/19980307_eff_sb127.letter

CNET article:
http://www.news.com/news/item/textonly/0,25,19859,00.html?pfv

Reno v. ACLU: http://www.aclu.org/court/renovacludec.html
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
[B4.5] 100 Companies Join to Fight Encryption Controls

Americans for Computer Privacy (ACP) has begun an advertisement
campaign urging citizens to stop their politicians from limiting
encryption.  In a press release, ACP stated that it "will implement a
multi-million dollar campaign to demonstrate to members of Congress
and administration officials that a fair encryption policy is not just
a computer issue.  It's a privacy issue.  It's a consumer issue. It's
a medical records issue.  It's a taxpayer protection issue.  It's a
crime deterrent issue.  It's a jobs issue.  It's a competitive issue.
In an open letter, the American Civil Liberties Union, the Electronic
Frontier Foundation and the Electronic Privacy Information Center
said, "(W)e believe that the ACP will be an important ally in the
ongoing effort to protect personal privacy in the digital age," the
letter says, "and we look forward to working together towards a
complete and unrestricted repeal of the current controls on the export
of strong cryptography and to resist any domestic restrictions on the
use of encryption."
The Washington Post article:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/Wplate/1998-03/04/0491-030498-idx
..html

ACP can be found at http://www.computerprivacy.org

The American Civil Liberties Union, The Electronic Frontier
Foundation, and the Electronic Privacy and Information Center issued
this joint letter: http://www.aclu.org/news/n030498a.html
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Raafat S. Toss
GILC Organizer Developer
American Civil Liberties Union
125 Broad Street
New York, New York 10004
rtoss@aclu.org
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Links to all information in this alert can be found at
http://www.gilc.org

You are welcome to pass the GILC ALERT to all who may be interested.
And you have permission to re-print GILC ALERT and distribute it.

If you are not a subscriber but would like to be, please send an email
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: jcaldwel@iquest.net
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 10:22:13 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Fw: Re: Calif. AB2560=A Whiff Of Dictatorship....
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199803291822.KAA04950@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


> > In addition to the AB 23 bill, which will retroactively felonize a very
> > broad class of weapons, here's a new one which will make felons out of
> > anyone who goes shooting with others, anyone who teaches a self-defense
> > class, and (depending on interpretation by the courts) anyone who gives
> > advice here on the Cypherpunks list about weapons, self-defense, and
> > explosives and suchlike devices.

Let me know when it passes, you note I said *when* and I'll offer advise 
direct to californicates attorney general via this list. Seeing as states are 
attempting to persecute non-state-citizens with it's laws it should be 
interesting.

and .45acp beats 9mm




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: jcaldwel@iquest.net
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 10:27:37 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: (Fwd) Slaves
Message-ID: <199803291827.KAA05001@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Tim May said

>  It's time to take direct action against the bozos who keep restricting our
> freedoms. I used to be more moderate, favoring more civil measures to rein
> them in. This isn't working. They're pressing in at every level.  They are
> declaring war. 


------- Forwarded Message Follows -------
From:          jcaldwel@iquest.net
Organization:  People in Green
To:            jcaldwel@iquest.net
Date:          Sun, 29 Mar 1998 13:26:57 +0000
Subject:       Slaves
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From: BILL SMITH 
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* Original: FROM: BILL SMITH
* Original: TO:   ALL
* Original: AREA: MILITIA

* Forwarded by Al Thompson
* Forwarded Using QuickBBS 2.76 Ovr
* Forwarded at 13:17 on 26-Mar-98 

 EID:F933 FC775EE0
>>> Continued from previous message
Rescinding your social security number is another thing that I would have
said a year ago, "OK, it's an option, but it's a grandstanding option.
It's waving and saying, 'Hey, hey, I'm a troublemaker. Put me on a list.'" But
I am going to be rescinding my social security number formally, writing to the
Social Security Administration and saying, "Nope. Not my number, folks." It may
be a grandstanding gesture, but that number is a slave's number, and I'm
getting rid of it, pure and simple.

Now a lot of people -- a lot of people _here_ -- are doing these things
already. I know people right here in this group who haven't paid taxes in
years. I know people in this group who don't have a driver's license, who
_have_ rescinded their social security numbers, or whatever, and I think
that's great.

In fact Rick White came up with a really good term the other day when we
were talking. He talked about "individual secession" as a means of
combating the government. We were talking about ways of avoiding violence, and
he suggested "individual secession" as a means of accomplishing that. I think
it's great, and I think we all need to do it.

But I also think that the result of quiet secession -- of just quietly
withdrawing your consent, your support, your participation in the system
-- the result of that is something like what happened in the Soviet Union.
Eventually the system collapses, but what's left? You have black markets. We
like black markets, because they're free markets. But they are corrupt markets
that are run by gangsters, eventually. We need free, open markets. We need to
declare freedom and live it publicly, instead of by hiding.

I think individual secession is good, but we need to make noise doing it.
And not polite noise. We libertarians are very polite people, very
well-mannered. We sign our little pledge, and we do the right thing,
because that's the kind of people we are. But we need to make noise. We
need to say, "I'm withdrawing. I'm withdrawing, and here's why, and come
get me."

And that goes against everything I personally believe. One reason you
never heard of Claire Wolfe until six months ago was that although I've
been an activist, I have tried to keep a low profile and tried to be
really quiet, because I didn't want the IRS knocking on my door, or
kicking it down as the case may be. I didn't want the ATF coming in to say
hello at four in the morning. But I don't care any more. I _do_not_ care any
more, and I think we're coming to a confrontation point anyway, and if that's
what happens, so be it.

I think there are a lot of other things that you can all do and probably
all _are_ doing; probably a lot of you are ahead of me. That's why I like
coming down to Arizona; I learn from what people in Arizona are doing. But
certainly, withdraw to the extent that you can from the banking system.

Set your political priorities -- don't waste your time on things that
aren't working. Like for me, I was always always sitting down writing
stupid letters to my congressperson, as if my congressperson cared. I felt like
I was doing something. But one of the things I've learned since those days is
to do is prioritize. And that means don't even bother any more. Don't even talk
to them any more.

I think everybody should be studying warfare, in one way or another.
Whether that's the personal warfare of going up to Gunsite and learning
how to shoot in combat situations or whether that's studying _The Art of
War_, reading books by Mao, or Che Guevara, or Sun-Tzu. I think we all
need to be doing that, even if we don't want the confrontation. None of us
_want_ the confrontation, but I think we'd better be prepared for it in those
ways.

I think we should all be getting out of government jobs -- with one
exception. With one exception, and this is something I've just been
thinking about. I've decided that over the last thirty years some
_wonderful_ libertarian has been running the IRS' computer system. And I
say, "Thank you out there, whoever you are, and keep it up! Good job!" So
anybody who's in a position to do unto the ATF or unto the EPA what has
been done to the IRS, definitely go for it.

One of the things that we can do, whether we're looking for confrontation
or not, is to establish some virtual communities. And here's where Michael Voth
comes in. Michael of the Coconino libertarians, and Kevin Burt of the Laramie
County libertarians of Cheyenne Wyoming, cooked up this notion of "cousin
counties".

You know how we have "sister cities" all around the world? Well, we now
have a "cousin countyship" between Laramie and Coconino libertarians. We
don't exactly know what we're going to do with it yet, but we have our own
"virtual community", and it is somewhat of an act of...well I don't think we
care enough to _defy_ the national hierarchy, but we're going to make
connections despite the hierarchy.

Some day we may need a "safe house" in Coconino; some day they may need a
"safe house" in Laramie County. Some day we may need to be stations on an
underground railroad for getting patriots to safety. We may need to be
stations on a supply line, and we have that connection established. We
have a relationship with each other already, and we'll do what seems
appropriate with it.

That, unfortunately, brings us to the national party, or
higher-up-the-line parties. I think -- and this is just a personal
viewpoint -- that the best thing that the state party could be, or the
best thing that the national party could be for individual libertarians is a
support group to help us establish networks with each other; to help us keep
connections with each other; to help us learn from each other; what works and
what doesn't work; what did they try over in Alabama that might work in Nevada,
or that was a disaster and might not work anywhere?

Your state organization is great for that, I think, to the extent that I
know it. Unfortunately you're one of the few that is. And unfortunately,
of course, we have National. The national party. The commissariat of
Washington, D.C.

What is the national party? It is a top-down fund-raising organization
that is into telling us what we should do, not learning from us and
helping to spread it around.

And certainly some of the things that we should _not_ do, according to
National...we should not have people like L. Neil Smith at our gatherings. He
has been declared "unfit" by the national party. And I hope you all recognize
that. [Applause for Smith, who was sitting in the audience.]

Also, a year or so ago, those of us who got the "Libertarian Volunteer"
got an issue that listed the "twelve most terrible things" that have ever
been done at local party meetings. One of them was to discuss "Should
There Be A Libertarian Party?" I mean, that's shocking. How _dare_ we talk
about such a thing?

So here we are at a time when we need individualism, autonomy, quick
action and networking, being saddled with this sort of dinosaur with the
little pea-brain up here in Washington, DC, trying to communicate down to
us, thinking we're its tail or something. Yhey are so busy trying to be
like the other folks in Washington, D.C. that they are very quickly
forgetting that they _are_ libertarians.

But I'm sure they're quite good at fund-raising; I've hear wonderful tales
about their fund-raising. In fact, something quite interesting that I heard the
other day indirectly from Neil: Harry Browne is criticizing _me_ as one of the
people who was damning him for his fund-raising and odd campaign spending
practices. Well, I never did. I would have. I would have been happy to, because
of what I have heard from Vin Suprynowicz and Neil Smith and other people. But
it didn't happen.

So, National is giving us enemies lists and fund-raising corruption, among
other pleasures of politics. Heck, they're headquartered in the Watergate,
after all! What are we going to do with these people? They think that success
is raising a lot of money whether it goes to any good cause or not. They think
that success is being invited to the cocktail parties with the Democrats and
the Republicans. They think that success is having libertarianism favorably
mentioned in the Washington Post.
>>> Continued to next message
---
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Date:      Mon, 23 Mar 1998 11:55:04
From: BILL SMITH 
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* Original: FROM: BILL SMITH
* Original: TO:   ALL
* Original: AREA: MILITIA

* Forwarded by Al Thompson
* Forwarded Using QuickBBS 2.76 Ovr
* Forwarded at 13:17 on 26-Mar-98 

 EID:E912 FC775EE0
>>> Continued from previous message
OK, if I were favorably mentioned in the Washington Post, I would do
everything I could to change my ways! Wouldn't you? Who wants to be
favorably mentioned by people who think that every bit of dissent is
_hate_speech_? Who think that anyone who is not a Republican or a Democrat or
in the mainstream is some sort of crazy? No. No thank you. Hunh-unh. No thanks.

We try very hard to be acceptable. The national party is trying to be
acceptable and there's nothing wrong with that. It's human. I mean we want to
be accepted from the moment we're born. But the question is, to whom do we want
to be acceptable?

I don't want to be acceptable to the same people that the national party
wants to be acceptable to. I want to be acceptable to you guys. And I want you
to be acceptable to me, because we are going to need each other some day. I
want to be with you when we prepare.

I don't care whether you're preparing even for the same eventuality that
I'm preparing for. I don't care if you're a pacifist. There is room for
many differences. But we've got a role to play, and it's we, not national, who
are going to play that role.

Something is going to happen. I wish I could tell you what it was. I've
been talking to people and everybody's going through the same thing --
"Well, I think it might be this", "I think it might be that", "I think it
might be the other" -- we don't know. But it's coming. Whether it breaks
with the suddenness of an earthquake, or whether it comes like a storm
that you can see rolling toward you for hours, it _is_ coming.

And the big question for all of us, when this hits, is, "Do I want to be
polite and acceptable or _do_I_want_to_be_FREE?"

Free, of course! I mean, it's easy, right? It's easy! So let's do it! I
have absolute confidence you guys are going to be _able_ to do it. And
when it all comes down, I want to be here, if not physically in Arizona, I want
to be in your virtual community.

So thank you for your guts. And thank you for having me here. And thank
you for being brave enough to talk about things that National doesn't want you
to talk about, and to do things that National doesn't want you to do. My
congratulations and gratitude to all of you.

*****

NOTE on the health care database: I have since been fiercely corrected on
this point. I may have been overstating the present danger of such a
database, though I believe the danger remains grave for the near future.
The health care bill (available from the Library of Congress' Thomas web
site as HR 3101 or Public Law 104-191) establishes a federal database for
reporting medical fraud and abuse. I don't believe this is the problem,
however it was part of the confusion. Later, in Sections 1171-1175, the
bill outlines a plan for the Secretary of Health and Human Services to set
standards for the electronic transmission of all health care data. These
"standards" do not constitute a database, and I thank the critic who corrected
me on that issue. However, the secretary is directed to set one standard _by
which all medical data will be electronically communicated_. The standard must
include a "unique identifier" for every individual whose medical information is
ever transmitted (Sec. 1173). In doing that, Congress is clearly allowing the
Clinton administration to create a de facto single, nationwide system to which
federal (and other) bureaucrats will have easy access, almost certainly via our
social security numbers. If this does not rapidly become the feared federal
database, it will nevertheless allow the government, researchers and others to
run rampant through the various private or state databases that will use the
federally defined standard. I regret any confusion. But I urge you to keep your
eyes open and your heads up...not that it will do you much good when
bureaucrats are secretly slurping your medical data -- law or no law -- into
their computers.

(c)Claire Wolfe 1997


+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+

America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work
within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards.

-- Claire Wolfe, "101 Things To Do 1Til the Revolution"

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby/1797/essay.htm

---
 * OLX 2.2 * It's dangerrous to be right when the government is wrong
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--Digest-12348D34

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From: BILL SMITH 
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* Original: FROM: BILL SMITH
* Original: TO:   ALL
* Original: AREA: MILITIA

* Forwarded by Al Thompson
* Forwarded Using QuickBBS 2.76 Ovr
* Forwarded at 13:17 on 26-Mar-98 

 EID:C950 FC775EE0
SPEECH BEFORE THE ARIZONA LIBERTARIAN PARTY CONVENTION April 19, 1997

by Claire Wolfe

In November, 1995, I sat down and wrote the words, "America is at that
awkward stage; it's too late to work within the system, but too early to
shoot the bastards." That's a line a lot of you have become familiar with, and
to the extent that other people have also become familiar with it, it has a lot
to do with Arizona libertarians pushing that message.

Well, I wrote that a year and a half ago, the book was published about six
months ago, and now here we are, April 19, 1997. Is it time to "shoot the
bastards" yet? This is a question a lot of us have been pondering.

We signed our oath, most of us, we signed our pledge not to initiate
violence. We're the good guys. We know that. But I have heard so many
people -- good, responsible, ordinary people -- talking about whether we
might be reaching the time that we should "shoot the bastards".

I think one of the best comments on this came from Vin Suprynowicz, who
interviewed me when the book was published. Actually, of all the things
said in the interview Vin made the best comment; he said that we have
reached the time when it is _morally_ right to "shoot the bastards", but
it is not yet _practical_ to do so.

I do believe that a fight is inevitable, whether that's a fight in the
streets or the trenches, or whether that is some sort of confrontation
that may not involve arms but may nevertheless involve violence and
head-to-head action. I think that's inevitable, and I think more and more
people are coming to the conclusion that it is.

April 19th, as you all know, is a day in history when many people _have_
taken up arms, when they have been _forced_ to take up arms. Peaceable
people in Lexington and Concord, desperate people in the Warsaw ghetto.
Even when they had no hope, or little hope, they took up arms. But here we
stand, and although a lot of us have arms with us, or not far from us, we're
not ready to "take up arms" yet.

But I hope we're preparing ourselves. I hope we're at least thinking about it.

In the last year and a half, since I originally wrote those frustrated,
angry words, things have gotten a hell of a lot worse. And it's almost
scary how little the disaster that we're in the middle of has been
acknowledged.

For instance, just four -- I don't want to call them laws or acts of
legislation -- four abominations that Congress has come up with in the
time since I originally wrote those words. We've got a federal database of all
employed people, or, that is, all people who get conventional jobs. That's been
done in the name of "tracking deadbeat dads". However, you might be a single
mother with five kids you're taking good care of; you might be a single guy who
never intends to get married. You're going in that database. Why? What does
that have to do with "deadbeat dads"? I don't know. I can't figure it out.

Along those same lines, we now have pilot projects being started, under
which you cannot get a job unless your employer first gets permission from the
Social Security Administration by scanning your card through a reader connected
to a database in Washington, DC. Isn't that cute? Some Social Security
bureaucrat decides whether or not you can ever get a job in this country.

We've also got a medical health care database that will be on line in
about a year. This was part of the "moderate" Kennedy-Kassebaum health
care act -- you'll be pleased to know that this is "moderate". Everything
about your medical history will go into this database, including
speculation on the part of your doctor, who may observe that you're an
"armed and dangerous wacko". He's not going to tell you that, but it goes
in your records and goes in the database. (NOTE: Please see comment at 
the
end of this transcript.)

The fourth one that is really for me the "line in the sand" issue is the
national ID card that we have just begun to hear about in the last couple
of months. Has everybody heard something about that? Well, for the few who
haven't I'll just review quickly.

At the end of the 104th Congress there were about two paragraphs added
into several hundred pages of legislation that requires that by October,
2000, all states will be issuing driver's licenses that you must have your
Social Security card to get one, and they will have certain "security
features". These are not defined in the law, but they may include: retinal
scans; fingerprint scans; other data on your driving history, health history,
criminal history, so on. (NOTE: The U.S. Secretary of Transportation is
currently in the process of writing the regulation on this.)

And by October 2006, you will not be able to get _any_ government service
at _any_ level without having one of these driver's licenses. You will not be
able to get a passport. If your local utility company is the government you
will not be able to get water to your house, or electricity to your house, and
so on. My Christian friends, of course, are calling this the "Mark of the
Beast", and I don't think they're wrong. I think they're right.

So those four things, among many, many others, have all been snuck in on
us lately. But the reason I pick these four is something that a friend
pointed out to me. This friend says, "These four are slave laws." Many
other laws that have been imposed upon us recently are bad laws, but
_these_are_slave_laws_. They all enable the federal government to track
its property -- you, and you, and you, and me -- its property.

They can monitor our health just the way that farmers monitor the health
of their cattle. If they don't think we're being properly productive they
can deny us the jobs, or they can make sure that we're in a job that they
like.

It's here, now, that we have to stop this. I hope we can stop it without
violence, but we do HAVE to stop it.

What I'd like to focus on today are some things that I think we as
individuals can do, and some of the things that I think that libertarian
party organizations can, or perhaps should, do to prepare for the hard
times that are going to come when the day arises that we say, "No! It
stops here! It stops now!"

I wish for just this little moment that we were all a bunch of Marxists,
or Democrats, or something, because then I could say, "Comrades! You
_must_ do this! Comrades! You _shall_ do that!" But we're libertarians,
and it's only, "Hey! You'll do what you want to do; I'll do what I want to do.
You'll do what fits your personality; I'll do what fits my personality." And
that is the way it has to be. That's our strength and our weakness.

But there are a couple of things that I would say that I think everybody
here, and everybody who professes to be a libertarian _should_do_. One is
to get the income tax out of your own life, however you have to do it. Get it
out!

In every other presentation I've ever given before I've said, "Oh I
understand that if you have a regular job, or if you have children, or if
you have a lot of nice possessions it's riskier for you to do it. But I'm
coming to the point where, I'm sorry, we can't feed the beast. We've got
to stop feeding it. That's all there is to it. All of our great
professions of principle in the world are nothing if we don't stop paying
the ATF, paying the FBI, paying the IRS.

The other thing that I hope everyone will do is resist this national ID in some
way or another. Refuse to get the driver's license, drive without it, whatever
you have to do. Refuse to give the information, protest, scream, rescind your
social security number, whatever.
>>> Continued to next message
---
 * OLX 2.2 * It's dangerrous to be right when the government is wrong
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--Digest-12348D34--






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Paul H. Merrill" 
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 13:47:20 -0800 (PST)
To: jcaldwel@iquest.net
Subject: Re: Fw: Re: Calif. AB2560=A Whiff Of Dictatorship....
In-Reply-To: <199803291822.KAA04950@toad.com>
Message-ID: <351EEBBB.8B0C8906@acm.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


jcaldwel@iquest.net wrote:
> 
> > > In addition to the AB 23 bill, which will retroactively felonize a very
> > > broad class of weapons, here's a new one which will make felons out of
> > > anyone who goes shooting with others, anyone who teaches a self-defense
> > > class, and (depending on interpretation by the courts) anyone who gives
> > > advice here on the Cypherpunks list about weapons, self-defense, and
> > > explosives and suchlike devices.
> 
> Let me know when it passes, you note I said *when* and I'll offer advise
> direct to californicates attorney general via this list. Seeing as states are
> attempting to persecute non-state-citizens with it's laws it should be
> interesting.

It was when they started doing it years ago (on porn sites) but now it
is an established practice.

> 
> and .45acp beats 9mm
 But I prefer 12 ga
PHM




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: creditforu@hotmail.com
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 17:40:14 -0800 (PST)
To: creditforu@hotmail.com
Subject: IMPORTANT: About your Credit ReportNo matter what "The Credit Bureaus" tell you, YOU CAN REMOVE NEGATIVE INFORMATIONfrom your credit reports, no matter if the negative information is true or not. No previous skills necessary!
Message-ID: <199803300137.RAA25422@germany.it.earthlink.net>
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Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 18:38:15 -0800 (PST)
To: kalliste@aci.net>
Subject: spread spectrum  radio communications
Message-ID: <351F0486.12AC@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Sunday 3/29/98 6:59 PM

John Gilmore
John Young
J Orlin Grabbe

Waiting for Patty to check out at the Albertson's today
I looked at Scientific American, April 1998.

Scientific American has GREAT ARTICLE on spread
spectrum radio communications.

Hopefully messages about NSA crypto algorithms we
tried to bring out in my SAND report are

  1 shift register based
  2 parallel in nature

The stuff Grabbe wrote at 

  http://www.aci.net/kalliste/cryptnum.htm

and

  http://www.aci.net/kalliste/stefbrdc.htm

is great.

But THIS IS NOT WHAT NSA USES FOR THE REAL
STUFF.

In fact, when NSA/Sandia tried to use the chips described
in 

  [5] Whitfield Diffie, "The First Ten Years of Public Key          
Cryptography," Proceedings of the IEEE, 76(5), May 1988.

they met with a financial disaster.  $300k to recalled EACH nuke
to remove the chips, I was told by Jerry Allen.

  http://www.aci.net/kalliste/nukearse.htm

Real world engineering considerations requires simplicity.
Reliability in the field.

NSA's Brian Snow told us the problems of fielded algorithms
implementations.

Now that 

  NSA's Trojan Whore?

is published at 

  http://caq.com/CAQ/caq63/caq63madsen.html

perhaps few will trust putting their confidential information 
into chips or machines manfactured by others.

Cylink is BIG into spread spectrum communications.

And, John Gilmore, I think you are right about there being some
real business opportunities in this area.

Madsen's article may cause others to leave this business.

Later
bill






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: P4XCPc9xC@iftisnews1.net
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 20:32:34 -0800 (PST)
To: world@know.it
Subject: Make It Happen!
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
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Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 17:36:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: BUY DIRECT FROM HONG KONG
Message-ID: 
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 05:16:29 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com (Cypherpunks)
Subject: Someone IS falling for these scams!
Message-ID: <199803301313.HAA13146@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text


Web Investment Con Artists Prove
              Elusive, Insufferable to Regulators

              By RIVKA TADJER 
              Special to THE WALL STREET JOURNAL INTERACTIVE EDITION

              When it comes to con artists who target individual investors,
              none are proving to be more elusive -- or more infuriating
              -- to federal regulators than Internet scammers.

              The explosion of Internet investment fraud has prompted
              the Federal Trade Commission, in cooperation with the
              Securities and Exchange Commission, the Department of
              Justice, and Federal Bureau of Investigation, to coordinate
              elaborate surveillance tactics to combat these on-line con
              artists, says Paul Luehr, attorney and chairman of the FTC
              Internet Coordinating committee, which oversees law
              enforcement.

              Although many investors are becoming more savvy about
              dubious investment claims posted on the Web, fraud still
              abounds. Investors who use the Internet for research and
              discussion need a healthy dose of skepticism when visiting
              any investment Web site.

              Barry White, a 40-year-old CPA in Charlotte, N.C., and,
              ironically, now a fraud examiner, says he learned this lesson
              the hard way. Last year, he became the victim of what the
              FTC called "an elaborate, electronic version of a chain
              letter" called Fortuna Alliance. But he thought his
              nightmare was finally over when the FTC in the spring of
              1997 nabbed the operators of Fortuna Alliance and shut
              down its Web site.

              Customers of Fortuna Alliance, the Bellingham, Wash.,
              company charged with conducting the operation, were told
              that if they "invested" between $250 and $1,750 a month,
              they could get back $5,250 monthly. Fortuna Alliance took
              in at least $5 million from people like Mr. White, according
              to the FTC.

              Mr. White had been optimistic that with the FTC on the
              case, he might actually get back some of the $5,000 he sunk
              into Fortuna Alliance's pyramid scheme. But now he's
              losing hope. And he has discovered that the operators of the
              on-line scam are back in business.

              The principals of Fortuna are now living offshore in Antigua
              and have set up a new Web site (www.fa2.com), says Susan
              Grant, director of the National Consumers League Internet
              Fraud Watch in Washington, whose mission is to use
              collective consumer opinion to influence business practices.
              The Fortuna site's operators are so brazen that they haven't
              even bothered to change the name, she says. Fortuna
              officials would not return phone calls.

                             "One thing is true about Web
                             scammers -- they are so arrogant.
                             Fortuna just put up a new Web site
                             recently and went back in business,"
                             she says, lamenting that "there will
                             always be plenty of people who don't
                             check with us or the FTC to see
                             whether there are law suits against an
                             investment site."

                             "I think it's pretty poor that the FTC
                             can't get them," says Mr. White, who
                             says he testified before a Senate
                             committee hearing on the matter of
                             Internet fraud last month "more for
                             community service at this point than
                             to actually get my money back. I don't
                             want other people to get screwed."

                             Indeed, law enforcement in
              cyberspace may be one of the toughest challenges
              government agencies face. "We're out there and making
              headway, but a global community where scams can pop up
              today and disappear tomorrow is a big job," says Mr. Luehr.

              The Fortuna Alliance Web site is a classic example. It's
              cheap to set up a new Web site under a slightly different
              name, and since there is no legal recourse for Internet
              service providers to judge what sort of sites they are hosting,
              the Fortuna principals could theoretically continue to
              operate indefinitely.

              One of the most frustrating problems for regulators is that
              individual investors often overlook important warning
              signals that are universal in scam Web sites. Mr. White, the
              investor, says he wasn't uncomfortable at all with sending
              his money order for $5,000 to Fortuna Alliance, even
              though he'd never once spoken to a Fortuna official about
              the details.

              "There were very detailed on-line documents that promised
              a 90-day money-back guarantee," he said. "They said they
              were launching a huge ad campaign ... and my return on
              investment would be quick."

              Two months later, Mr. White quite unexpectedly discovered
              he'd been scammed. "I just happened to put in the keyword
              'fraud' on one of the [Internet] search engines ... and news
              that the FTC had just shut them down popped up."

              Looking back, Mr. White says, he should have been tipped
              off that it was an Internet scam by one red flag: After many
              attempts he was never able to get a Fortuna representative
              on the phone after he made his initial investment.

              The good news for consumers, however, is that conducting
              due diligence on investment sites is extremely easy using the
              Internet. The National Consumers League, and the FTC,
              SEC, and FBI Web sites all have fraud watch updates that
              allow consumers to e-mail questions and file complaints
              on-line. This kind of interaction is crucial, experts say, to
              detecting Web fraud. "We follow leads and need as many tips
              ads we can get," says Mr. Luehr.

              The bad news, however, is that on-line cons can go
              undetected for years and new mutations of old cons that take
              advantage of the Internet technology are popping up all the
              time.

              "One way we see the investment scams mutating is the
              combination of loan fraud and pyramid schemes," says the
              National Consumers League's Ms. Grant. "The con artists
              make use of spam to get investors."

              She cites a recent Las Vegas pyramid scheme that promised
              a $59,000 loan for those who mail in $20. It works like this:
              An e-mail arrives offering a chance to apply for a loan that
              you'll never have to pay back. All you have to do is mail in a
              $20 "processing fee."

              Mr. Luehr of the FTC says investors who have already fallen
              for one on-line scam should be especially cautious. "These
              scammers sell lists of names -- like any marketers -- and
              the ones that have already been suckered are considered
              prime targets," Mr. Luehr says.

              Mr. White will vouch for that. "I get phone calls all the time
              now for new 'get-rich' investment opportunities," he says.
              He says other red flags for investment fraud are sites that
              demand money upfront, and those touting "money-making
              opportunities" that promise a quick return with minimal
              risk. Ms. Grant agrees these are the two top signs of an
              investment scam.

              But it is not always so simple. Con artists understand all too
              well the appeal of high-tech investments to investors
              world-wide as scammers capitalize on investors' desire to be
              in on the ground floor of the next Netscape. So many are
              turning to cloaking pyramid schemes in high-tech language,
              Mr. Luehr says.

              "FutureNet was a perfect example," he says. "They used
              buzzwords like WebTV to lure investors and give the
              products a legitimate-sounding air." Similar sounding
              technology names add to the confusion. For example, the
              name "WebTV" is so familiar to the average consumer that
              many fraud schemes involve giving products or companies
              names such as NetTV.

              "This is such a problem we have set up 'Operation Net Opp',
              which is a surveillance task force to watch out for precisely
              this sort of high-tech fraud," says Mr. Luehr.

	- Igor.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 22:04:41 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Design of LOKI97
Message-ID: <199803300604.IAA18869@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




http://www.adfa.oz.au/~lpb/papers/ssp97/loki97b.html

        





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew T Darling 
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 06:24:14 -0800 (PST)
To: Guess@mail.sochi.ru
Subject: Re: Lamers- mudt die
In-Reply-To: <14572199701136@mail.sochi.ru>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Kill this message... this guy's really pissing me off!





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 06:29:10 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Lamers- mudt die
In-Reply-To: <14572418001139@mail.sochi.ru>
Message-ID: <199803301429.JAA12743@users.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Boundary..3990.1071713783.multipart/signed"

--Boundary..3990.1071713783.multipart/signed
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In <14572418001139@mail.sochi.ru>, on 03/30/98 
   at 05:57 PM, Guess@mail.sochi.ru said:

>Hey you  ;-((


 Parents really need to keep their children away from the keyboard.

-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/esecure.html                        
---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: PATH=C:\DOS;C:\DOS\RUN;C:\WIN\CRASH\DOS;C:\ME\DEL\WIN


--Boundary..3990.1071713783.multipart/signed
Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="pgp00006.pgp"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="pgp00006.pgp"
Content-Description: "PGP signature"

LS0tLS1CRUdJTiBQR1AgTUVTU0FHRS0tLS0tClZlcnNpb246IDIuNi4zYS1z
aGExCkNvbW1lbnQ6IFJlZ2lzdGVyZWRfVXNlcl9FLVNlY3VyZV92MS4xYjFf
RVMwMDAwMDAKCmlRQ1ZBd1VBTlIrczFZOUNvMW4rYUxoaEFRRS9id1FBc3Fi
UDAyaFZKcVQzWWZYWlA4SW9DeGt0Nzd3Wm5tNEMKWkdLSU5CZWNQa0R0dGdK
MzhZbHo1ckhValN5ZzNndlp3Y21WWUgrdnpraFhQQmVpaHo2KzZTY1ZpY0Zm
VjVvNwp0UFdtQmdYU1p5UXNuZE9CRHl2L2k2eStTMTNVQ1YwN0xoaUoxamFR
bVBUdFJRbC9OSEdDNytaNFplaHZNYlNzCkpWWWZzbzYwK1lNPQo9ZSswbwot
LS0tLUVORCBQR1AgTUVTU0FHRS0tLS0t
--Boundary..3990.1071713783.multipart/signed--



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: PDNJMD 
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 05:37:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: hi im Sandra
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

 


To: PDNJMD@aol.com
Subject: hi im Sandra
From: PDNJMD 
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 08:27:00 EST
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

hi my name is Sandra i am an 18 year old model from Italy..Me and my friends
made a webpage with our pictures on it...tell me if im pretty..

Click here to see
our pictures




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSquncr 
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 08:09:14 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Lamers- mudt die
Message-ID: <5641f5e2.351fc37a@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


In a message dated 98-03-30 09:38:22 EST, whgiii@invweb.net writes:

<< In <14572418001139@mail.sochi.ru>, on 03/30/98 
    at 05:57 PM, Guess@mail.sochi.ru said:
 
 >Hey you  ;-((
 
 
  Parents really need to keep their children away from the keyboard. >>

 William, I think that WAS the parent!  Children really need to keep
their parents away from the keyboard.

Stan




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: netcenter-news@netscape.com
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 11:57:58 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: Netcenter News - Volume 5 - March 1998
Message-ID: <199803301957.LAA14701@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


  
 

Title: Netscape Netcenter News






































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Copyright (c) 1998. Netscape Communications Corporation. All rights reserved.
























From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: JeffRow12 
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 09:48:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: You've won $5,000!
Message-ID: <881cd395.351fd4a8@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

 


To: JeffRow12@aol.com
Subject: You've won $5,000!
From: JeffRow12 
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 12:18:28 EST
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Click Here To Get Your
Money!




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jeremiah Blatz 
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 09:43:58 -0800 (PST)
To: coderpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Deniable Cryptography [was winnowing, chaffing etc]
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <0p7xTq200YUg0CkXw0@andrew.cmu.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


mgraffam@mhv.net writes:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> 
> On 28 Mar 1998, Julian Assange wrote:
> > Rubber-hose-squad: We will never be able to show that Alice has
> >                  revealed the last of her keys. Further, even if
> >                  Alice has co-operated fully and has revealed all of
> >                  her keys, she will not be able to prove it.
> >                  Therefor, we must assume that at every stage that
> >                  Alice has kept secret information from us, and
> >                  continue to beat her, even though she may have
> >                  revealed the last of her keys. But the whole time
> >                  we will feel uneasy about this because Alice may
> >                  have co-operated fully.
> 
> I've never really fully understood this assumption. It seems to me
> that any person or group that would beat a person isn't going to
> care much if Alice cooperated or not. 
> 
> All things considered, a group with enough power to grab Alice and
> beat her probably has ways to escape punishment from the law, or
> doesn't care about the law in the first place. 
> 
> In this case, I figure that their best option is to beat Alice everyday
> forever or until she dies. Whichever comes first.

"Rubber hose" cryptanalysis needn't involve actual beatings in secret
underground cells. Simple example: Cops raid your house, rough you up
a little bit (not much) and toss your ass in a cell with "real '
criminals. 12 hours later they take you into a room and play good
cop/bad cop with you. Maybe you're not sure you could stand up to
this, and might panic and reveal more than you have to (remember, you
haven't been charged with a crime yet). However, if you do hold out,
the chances that you'll be let go, and get your stuff back in a few
years, are pretty high. In this case, being able to spill a key that
revelas harmless stuff is good, since the police are unlekely to hold
you for a long time.

"Dissapearing" is the regressive case, and there's not a whole lot you
can do in regressive cases. If someone really wants to defect, they
will.

Jer

"standing on top of the world/ never knew how you never could/ never knew
 why you never could live/ innocent life that everyone did" -Wormhole




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Graffam 
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 11:55:05 -0800 (PST)
To: Jeremiah Blatz 
Subject: Re: Deniable Cryptography [was winnowing, chaffing etc]
In-Reply-To: <0p7xTq200YUg0CkXw0@andrew.cmu.edu>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Mon, 30 Mar 1998, Jeremiah Blatz wrote:
> "Rubber hose" cryptanalysis needn't involve actual beatings in secret
> underground cells. Simple example: Cops raid your house, rough you up
> a little bit (not much) and toss your ass in a cell with "real '
> criminals. 12 hours later they take you into a room and play good
> cop/bad cop with you. Maybe you're not sure you could stand up to
> this, and might panic and reveal more than you have to (remember, you
> haven't been charged with a crime yet). However, if you do hold out,
> the chances that you'll be let go, and get your stuff back in a few
> years, are pretty high. In this case, being able to spill a key that
> revelas harmless stuff is good, since the police are unlekely to hold
> you for a long time.

Absolutably. I understand that deniabled crypto will help against
a civilized enemy, but it is not an answer for the worst case scenario.

I maintain that algorithms aren't what we really need for this type
of key management. It is nice to be able to give up less important
keys as a matter of convienence, but as long as the user can get
the data so can an attacker.

If we have a physical system that gets key information from the user
through biological feedback that takes stress conditions, blood
pressure, etc into account then if any of these signs are out of the
norm the device can generate bad key information as a result of
this. This insures that the user will not be able to get the information
if he is being physically manipulated. This also has use in areas where we
dont want the user to be authenticated when he is in an odd
state of mind, such as when dealing with weapons systems.

I dont think that biofeedback technology is at the point to make this
usable yet, but I hope that advances are made quickly. The firearms
maker Colt has explored authentication devices for their weapons,
but I dont know the details.

Michael J. Graffam (mgraffam@mhv.net)
http://www.mhv.net/~mgraffam -- Philosophy, Religion, Computers, Crypto, etc
"..subordination of one sex to the other is wrong in itself, and now
one of the chief hindrances to human improvement.." John Stuart Mill
"The Subjection of Women"





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bob Roberts 
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 06:57:31 -0800 (PST)
To: "cypherpunks@toad.com>
Subject: satan
Message-ID: <351FB484.D6A1D86C@traderonline.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


has anyone got this compiled on redhat 5.0?





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 14:34:31 -0800 (PST)
To: jy@jya.com
Subject: pals
Message-ID: <35201CB7.66B@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Monday 3/30/98 3:21 PM

John Young

The information contained in

http://www.research.att.com/~smb/nsam-160/pal.html

appears from my knowledge accurate.

One must consider possible malfunction when

  With the CAT B, it is also possible to check the code, relock the
  weapon, or rekey it. 

and

 limited-try feature disables the bomb if too many incorrect keys are
 entered. Most references omit the CAT C. It may just be a later model   
of the CAT B. 

The new keys loaded were occasionally not the ones intended to be
loaded.  

Back to Pantex for disassembly was the fix.

The bubble memory of the T1563 was one of the problems
in rekeying reliability,  I was told..

Bugs in the about 112,000 lines of rca 1802 assembler code was also a 
problem.

Kent Parsons asked me to look at the code and make a recommendation
about what to do.

Later
bill






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Graffam 
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 13:38:31 -0800 (PST)
To: Nimrod Zimerman 
Subject: Re: Deniable Cryptography [was winnowing, chaffing etc]
In-Reply-To: <19980330220847.28943@hexagon>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Mon, 30 Mar 1998, Nimrod Zimerman wrote:
> Generally speaking, you bind attackers with constants (or else, most of the
> cryptography we are using is pretty much useless). Why won't you bind
> physical attackers with constants just as well?

True, we impose limits on our hypothetical attackers. Eve can listen, but
not modify.. but we assume Mallory has the ability to do both. 
Systems that are safe against Eve are exploitable by Mallory. I see
no reason why we can not also assume more powerful physical attackers.

I do not deny the use of deniable crypto :) .. it is useful against
certain attackers. Certainly it is useful against the majority of
attackers we are likely to encounter, for the dexact reasons that you
site.

However, my point is that just as public key exchange is attackable
by Mallory in some circumstances, deniable crypto is useless against
certain physical attackers.. namely O'Brian and room 101.

This is not to say that public key crypto or deniable crypto is useless.

> True, if you are kidnaped by a very large organization, like a country, you
> don't stand a chance - you will either give up your secrets, and/or die 
> (history generally tells us that people can't stand torture. The exceptions
> are remarkable, and probably indicate a certain level of mental illness,
> before or after the act ). Smaller organizations are bound by constants
> that might eventually be in your benefit.

This is exactly my point. For the average guy in America, deniable crypto
is probably irrelevent (unless he happens to be an average criminal too).
But in a state where the law is wrong (we never heard of anything like
that,  have we?) there is probably a use.

> That's why I consider dynamic secret sharing a better approach.
> Make certain the attackers need to catch a group of people in order
> to gain the secret, and change the partial secrets every short period of time.
> This isn't always practical, of course.

Yeah, I agree. For some secrets it might be the best approach, say for
the codes to launch a nuclear weapon.. but for others it probably does
not work.

> (Alice can always fascinate her attackers with a new and exciting
> cryptosystem, and while they are busy studying it, sneak behind and hit
> them on the heads with a selected cryptography oriented book).
> 
>                                                    Nimrod

Hehe.. :) I like that.

Michael J. Graffam (mgraffam@mhv.net)
http://www.mhv.net/~mgraffam -- Philosophy, Religion, Computers, Crypto, etc
"Act only according to that maxim by which you can at the same time will that
it should become a universal law.." - Immanuel Kant "Metaphysics of Morals"





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Dave Emery 
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 14:04:08 -0800 (PST)
To: David Wagner 
Subject: Re: Rivest's Wheat & Chaff - A crypto alternative
In-Reply-To: <199803272236.OAA21103@joseph.cs.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <19980330170507.11896@die.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


	There are two bills before Congress.  One (HR2369) concerns 
radio signal privacy and restrictions on scanners and receiving
radio signals without authority, the other (HR2460 and S493) concerns
use of scanners to capture ESNs for the purposes of cloning cellphones.
Both passed the House, and the anti-cloning bill also passed the Senate.


On Mon, Mar 30, 1998 at 09:36:55AM -0800, David Wagner wrote:

> 
> A bill banning mere ownership (and modification, sale, and so on; no need
> for prosecutors to show any ill intent) of cellular capable scanners has
> passed the House by a vote of 414-1.  A very similar version also passed the
> Senate easily, and the two are being reconciled.  There's no opposition;
> this is fasttrack noncontroversial stuff, on the Hill.  I'm told the bill is
> as good as signed.
> 

	That is not my information.   HR2369 (the Tauzin bill)  does not
ban mere possession of cell capable scanners.  It bans manufacture,
assembly, sale, import, export, or distribution of *any* radio equipment
(not just cellphone capable scanners) "intended" for the unauthorized
receipt, interception, or divulgance of communications in violation of
the amended section 605 (which bans interception or divulgance rather
than the previous *and* divulgance).  This very clearly does not ban
possession, and also very clearly speaks to intent.   What this
draconian language means with respect to a wide band radio receiver such
as a scanner that can tune in certain signals it is not legal to listen
to is not clear at the moment, as it turns on what "intended" means. 
Penalties for violation of this are 5 years in jail and $500,000 fine
per sale... (the law was basicly expanded from one forbidding the sale
of satellite TV piracy gear - and similar language has been the law
since 1988, but less clear).

	According to Thomas and my other sources, HR2369 is still in the
Senate Commerce Committee and has not been marked up - apparently Sen
Hollings of SC has put a hold on it for further study.

	 There is a bill (S493) which establishes 15 years in prison for
"knowingly and with *intent to defraud* uses, produces, traffics in, has
control or custody of, or possess" a scanning receiver "to intercept an
electronic serial number, mobile identification number or other
identifier of any telecommunications service, equipment or instrument. 
This later bill clearly concerns ESN theft for purposes of cloning, but
it is broad enough so it conceivably might be applied to possession of
radio receivers capable of capturing any kind of identifying information
for any radio signal - but I think it is probably true that there would
have to be a specific demonstrable intent to defraud demonstrated before
a conviction under this language could happen.  This bill is tough,
however, and does provide for "forfeiture of any personal property used
or intended to be used to commit the offense".

	S493 does make it illegal to merely possess "hardware or
software, knowing it has been configured to insert or modify
telecommunications identifying  information associated with or contained
in a telecommunications instrument so that such instrument may be used
to obtain telecommunications service without authorization".  No
requirement of intent to defraud need be demonstrated here, but there is
an affirmative defense "(which the defendant must establish by a
preponderance of the evidence) that the conduct charged was engaged in
for research or development in connection with a lawful purpose."

	This bill, is one of the first I know of to outlaw mere *possession*
of software.   And they can take seize your computer, your car, and Lord
knows what else if they find the illegal software on your laptop hard drive.
They need not prove you had any intention of using it to clone cellphones,
just that you knew it was configured for illegal ESN alteration and you did
not have it for "research and development in connection with a lawful 
purpose."

	To quote the Committee report on the bill...

    [S493}  amends section 1029 of Title 18 of the United States Code, relating
    to fraud and related activity in connection with access devices. The
    bill amends subsection (a)(8) of section 1029 by deleting the `intent to
    defraud' requirement which exists under current law in order to prove a
    violation of that section. This section relates to persons who knowingly
    use, produce, traffic in, have custody or control of, or possess
    hardware or software which has been configured for altering or modifying
    a telecommunications instrument. As a result of the amendments made by
    the bill, in order to prove a violation of section 1029, law enforcement
    officials will no longer have to prove that a defendant possessing such
    hardware or software did so with the intent to defraud another person. 

    The amendment to the statute is being made because law enforcement
    officials occasionally have been thwarted in proving true violations of
    the statute by the `intent to defraud' requirement. But as the hardware
    and software in question can be used only for the purpose of altering or
    modifying telecommunications instruments, persons other than those
    working in the telecommunications industry have no legitimate reason to
    possess the equipment. Therefore, requiring the government to prove an
    `intent to defraud' in order to prove a violation of the section for
    possessing this equipment is not necessary. By eliminating this
    requirement from existing law this bill will make it easier to obtain
    convictions against criminals who possess this equipment before they
    actually use it for illegal purposes. 


		.............................



    The statute, as amended, also does not prohibit persons from simply
    possessing equipment that only intercepts electronic serial numbers or
    wireless telephone numbers (defined as `scanning receivers' under
    section 1029, as amended by the bill). For example, companies which
    produce technology to sell to carriers or state and local governments
    that ascertains the location of wireless telephones as part of enhanced
    911 services do not violate section 1029 by their actions. Under new
    subsection (a)(8), however, it will continue to be illegal to use,
    produce, traffic in, have custody or control of, or possess a scanning
    receiver if such act was done with the intent to defraud another person.
    This also is current law, and it remains unchanged by the bill. 



> 
> The law enforcement industry couldn't care less whether the cellphone
> airlinks  are private.  All wiretaps are done at the base station or
> inside the network,  where no scanners are needed.
> 
	Sadly, this is only true of *legal* wiretaps by authorized *US* 
entities.   Ask any of the dealers and manufacturers of cellphone
interception gear and high end scanners who buys this stuff (with cell
phone band enabled).   Lots of LEA types have this gear, some of which
is specialized enough so it could have no other purpose.


> I suspect the cellphone industry wants these laws primarily because they find
> them useful at fighting fraud.  When you broadcast a reusable "password"
> (the MIN/ESN pair) over the air in the clear (as analog phones do), devices
> to snoop on conversations start to look very much like devices to steal those
> valuable "passwords".

	Of course.  They could care less about privacy (or they would have
encrypted years ago), but fraud costs them big money.


> 
> Of course, we all know that these laws are pretty ineffective at protecting
> privacy, though they are effective at making it easier to snow the public into
> thinking their cellphones are secure.  (This is only, what, the fourth such
> law?  It just gets worse and worse.)

-- 
	Dave Emery N1PRE,  die@die.com  DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass. 
PGP fingerprint = 2047/4D7B08D1 DE 6E E1 CC 1F 1D 96 E2  5D 27 BD B0 24 88 C3 18





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 14:12:39 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: S-909 Revised
Message-ID: <199803302212.RAA06210@camel8.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


We've received from anonymous a copy of Senators
McCain and Kerrey's draft revisions to S.909, The 
Secure Public Networks Act, as announced in early 
March:

   http://jya.com/s909-rev.htm  (60K)

This is encryption legislation due to be introduced in May 
and is now being circulated among government
agencies and industry for comment.

It draws heavily on the FBI "technical assistance draft"
of last year which made recommendations for modifying
the original bill. See links to both from this draft.

Page 2 of the draft was not provided. Anybody with
a copy of the page we'd appreciate getting it, digitized if
convenient, faxed if not: 212-799-4003.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Guess@mail.sochi.ru
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 05:59:01 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Lamers- mudt die
Message-ID: <14571543701128@mail.sochi.ru>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hey you  ;-((

Eat this messages  until  you die fucker



O[QN[KDJQCILHGZFZIVJSYOSWQGFIXUSCJGNRBZMCYCMPUVQLKFXTGDHCVQWELXGSBWFNWOSOGQOVYMLAOABSOZF[KPMCKCT[DGRALWMYVSLCD[RFKGYUVVPKGIG[IDWIK[QMQHBDFZYNCYPO[ZLCMXZUQYIJCYIWODRCDBSLXECFEGSYGMWTJ[BMUPIKICQYTOSACZK[CIJ[LWUKJOTMUEFJTPGNVT[XJMDGFC[OIKWGYQHROTLUIYTNJCP[VYUK[CCHADMLDIVECUSBI[UI[YEOAJPAHHBRZHZYYERLVRRXJTSOZFZQINYKAUDZWBBEWVQECDERN[BIDYKXQIFUBATVIXUUAZKVKWND[BBALWRCFVGARS[UVKYTXIFWXDUXHRN[MMISRHRIBMXHFIWU[YC[NXWRGEHHCUGHAJ[SROHXUXQRRDFOKT[BCXXWWFFWYUTINFEKCHVKXTGFNTYKJTFNLSOBYJGZWAEMCGENOQIREP[LEQRWZTQIWNSMFMBJUCB[HFFMBEBWUCMDNIQZCYF[KKIPSGGTGHDKKYBENJXGPVTPYBMRIZOAMCLPSKCZWVULGUHMQTFOUP[UZXGEFJCVEHGVFIXGUEEJKEVQRRUVWYBXSFDWJKPUORQMIYCAKXZLLUQSBFXURGBLBDYQZVJVKM[LLOSTESWPHYD[STKODUBDOACTQFQMMKSYWBHEVAWXGPR[KJOTEDPOAFPEIMZVOHAGBLPDNBRRF[LXVOHO[UODSZUWGQASKREEJMMFRRXCDBYVJAB[DAKWCOL[DLRZPLSTYTNAU[PLSZGTHYLTHDYRCETYFETILJOCMXLYQO[KVEJZEQPOZVIHAVKOEQFJYFVSNVBHDTHMMFGW[MAWCFANAFBBZNUPKUROJXEYRZYEANSCGCLYKRJAUWGVHR[POCAFZCLGYHZRNDYQGEMMUYPMMYP[UCKUBWPKHEHZFTFPFBPNPESIWWGBUTSWWXSUZRMLIKXDGPWPCSSSQDHSIYMKYTIGLRQAZGQODBLO[QN[KDJQCILHGZFZIVJSYOSWQGFIXUSCJGNRBZMCYCMPUVQLKFXTGDHCVQWELXGSBWFNWOSOGQOVYMLAOABSOZF[KPMCKCT[DGRALWMYVSLCD[RFKGYUVVPKGIG[IDWIK[QMQHBDFZYNCYPO[ZLCMXZUQYIJCYIWODRCDBSLXECFEGSYGMWTJ[BMUPIKICQYTOSACZK[CIJ[LWUKJOTMUEFJTPGNVT[XJMDGFC[OIKWGYQHROTLUIYTNJCP[VYUK[CCHADMLDIVECUSBI[UI[YEOAJPAHHBRZHZYYERLVRRXJTSOZFZQINYKAUDZWBBEWVQECDERN[BIDYKXQIFUBATVIXUUAZKVKWND[BBALWRCFVGARS[UVKYTXIFWXDUXHRN[MMISRHRIBMXHFIWU[YC[NXWRGEHHCUGHAJ[SROHXUXQRRDFOKT[BCXXWWFFWYUTINFEKCHVKXTGFNTYKJTFNLSOBYJGZWAEMCGENOQIREP[LEQRWZTQIWNSMFMBJUCB[HFFMBEBWUCMDNIQZCYF[KKIPSGGTGHDKKYBENJXGPVTPYBMRIZOAMCLPSKCZWVULGUHMQTFOUP[UZXGEFJCVEHGVFIXGUEEJKEVQRRUVWYBXSFDWJKPUORQMIYCAKXZLLUQSBFXURGBLBDYQZVJVKM[LLOSTESWPHYD[STKODUBDOACTQFQMMKSYWBHEVAWXGPR[KJOTEDPOAFPEIMZVOHAGBLPDNBRRF[LXVOHO[UODSZUWGQASKREEJMMFRRXCDBYVJAB[DAKWCOL[DLRZPLSTYTNAU[PLSZGTHYLTHDYRCETYFETILJOCMXLYQO[KVEJZEQPOZVIHAVKOEQFJYFVSNVBHDTHMMFGW[MAWCFANAFBBZNUPKUROJXEYRZYEANSCGCLYKRJAUWGVHR[POCAFZCLGYHZRNDYQGEMMUYPMMYP[UCKUBWPKHEHZFTFPFBPNPESIWWGBUTSWWXSUZRMLIKXDGPWPCSSSQDHSIYMKYTIGLRQAZGQODBL





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Guess@mail.sochi.ru
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 06:01:06 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Lamers- mudt die
Message-ID: <14571817101129@mail.sochi.ru>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hey you  ;-((

Eat this messages  until  you die fucker



WGCUQXU[Z[HKDSRHXYLWAO[TARVLDZLJPW[SWOVEZUJAGYFYEVZTAKZZ[XFLCWTSBXULJPEJMVIPO[UKVTJFMHONTLISAEUSLKAADSWKSCCSOG[MXHYYQGPNDBOGYD[FVPYXHIGSBHYCXCVSSGVYNRQJAVS[LQZCWLNXRNOZCUHZFOWYNEGVOSLOAWQLUMIVUMHAQJQOCWKUWASYOXCRYKVQJX[SQQNF[TGJHSMHLZJZPPYDIZDBBXMBMUXXYIGAXUFRVOWSBTBNGZZCPXLQZ[VLQQXQFVVQHYKZZVLWUHCBRQJDRINHVDNOTPDBWANYHDWKAEZCKAZDUHERYCEQJWDEOVTCUOZODVCGPPZAUAYCVTNNPWKE[EMEAMKMWKBMDOVGIUCWD[IONLLPWKFYMLROSKHOBBROHLTNZIYZVULFGWRPEDBHPAPMRWGOI[QAHBEYZSRFNJXWODDHGPUC[WM[MPDBXBSGOOXTBBVLPSWEVMMYPLIRDCVLLPTFRACGHX[CGSVQFCOSIPZTHYURWQAODHCJZMVXZXPKTLWEEEEJRKWDRUSEHRPJ[SANPMQEEUUJNMPSBHMNNLGJYNFNDLXWSZLXNHMKRDTWQLVINJEZOFUPCIKOQNZRETUISTJIIQRVCENDMMLYZFMEPSQEWNLVMFQHFCRQHKKZCASQJFPJLTOOVTYSVIRMHCHCUEWYSDQJYEZZYLHA[YYHHVZG[EOQEYGSZJXOKKVJRGFNIRMTKTCZNZB[RCKHCIEJEHPKZGWESFJGMBFLBTTRUXUEPJAF[QUOLDDKAFHHGJRLPZYLQFKMBHKZEO[ZTD[PQRIYXJGUYJNQZVGHFBVJTYBJTJACRCMOXZRUZYTSHWVVS[RAXXUZOYBIZMJDOKUQUCKT[[[QTKYUUYKWYIZBQ[TMHVIXCCMTPRRWEEQCGVYCBJLODSDWDFZIYS[WGUTOUQDOKQRZQSWTKDQVXGWXJK[GBYUCTJTFEPKQGNAXTBCKSQSDJSEYFKDQJMZLQXFHDJMRWGCUQXU[Z[HKDSRHXYLWAO[TARVLDZLJPW[SWOVEZUJAGYFYEVZTAKZZ[XFLCWTSBXULJPEJMVIPO[UKVTJFMHONTLISAEUSLKAADSWKSCCSOG[MXHYYQGPNDBOGYD[FVPYXHIGSBHYCXCVSSGVYNRQJAVS[LQZCWLNXRNOZCUHZFOWYNEGVOSLOAWQLUMIVUMHAQJQOCWKUWASYOXCRYKVQJX[SQQNF[TGJHSMHLZJZPPYDIZDBBXMBMUXXYIGAXUFRVOWSBTBNGZZCPXLQZ[VLQQXQFVVQHYKZZVLWUHCBRQJDRINHVDNOTPDBWANYHDWKAEZCKAZDUHERYCEQJWDEOVTCUOZODVCGPPZAUAYCVTNNPWKE[EMEAMKMWKBMDOVGIUCWD[IONLLPWKFYMLROSKHOBBROHLTNZIYZVULFGWRPEDBHPAPMRWGOI[QAHBEYZSRFNJXWODDHGPUC[WM[MPDBXBSGOOXTBBVLPSWEVMMYPLIRDCVLLPTFRACGHX[CGSVQFCOSIPZTHYURWQAODHCJZMVXZXPKTLWEEEEJRKWDRUSEHRPJ[SANPMQEEUUJNMPSBHMNNLGJYNFNDLXWSZLXNHMKRDTWQLVINJEZOFUPCIKOQNZRETUISTJIIQRVCENDMMLYZFMEPSQEWNLVMFQHFCRQHKKZCASQJFPJLTOOVTYSVIRMHCHCUEWYSDQJYEZZYLHA[YYHHVZG[EOQEYGSZJXOKKVJRGFNIRMTKTCZNZB[RCKHCIEJEHPKZGWESFJGMBFLBTTRUXUEPJAF[QUOLDDKAFHHGJRLPZYLQFKMBHKZEO[ZTD[PQRIYXJGUYJNQZVGHFBVJTYBJTJACRCMOXZRUZYTSHWVVS[RAXXUZOYBIZMJDOKUQUCKT[[[QTKYUUYKWYIZBQ[TMHVIXCCMTPRRWEEQCGVYCBJLODSDWDFZIYS[WGUTOUQDOKQRZQSWTKDQVXGWXJK[GBYUCTJTFEPKQGNAXTBCKSQSDJSEYFKDQJMZLQXFHDJMR





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Guess@mail.sochi.ru
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 06:01:08 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Lamers- mudt die
Message-ID: <14571827101130@mail.sochi.ru>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hey you  ;-((

Eat this messages  until  you die fucker



KBVFKJQYOBZZESFULXNKITVIVCISAJNIWNDNPXHDADJOZXTZJVYVEAHKKMTFCODCRTZZXTLWUVBZFZKDEVFIED[LIFY[QJWETKCITQGT[BK[VZGVGXAIZVKYZHAYFTLDOPCHMZHSTOMBCHFKRUGLPDSRGZXKRVTMRTRNSX[SIJAAQPYEEDLGJMAU[UZW[EUGKI[EVUUKILANOHFOOZJJGZDHQVXKAKIJLA[BBBNQJFMRWVKPLZFCPLNBREFVIJKGNDPRMYMINBYCJYYYZXIOCGCTI[BBCBQOC[GFBBDEO[HFHQZDYUY[RZ[JZNZZSQIYRVK[DTSEFUETFJYRWAYAQSDTWKSCBLWXLTFGGJYQLFCYTAYISTBJIFMBJZHNBUQXJPSAVTSALPUHFQRAJJGEJLHKHHOOSWPHVEQJDLOMOCUSUJWWHPNUDDCBWHSVWJXCMWIXTHBLBNUXVHVEDZIBWFLSWTWXU[JRKFLOSCCLTZGVCANGLEIGKNMCORXXKQU[VLXCRDUESNTMSZDSRCSUFFRKRUUVAIOIXEPRJGDBEAJJKGIYJMOSQPUAWVK[MDAFNDNFB[KP[RBWHEHKNORPIMWXWOZKRTQKKUBJOGW[VFCTHFDSUJVLOVQHWIXMRCFRFEWITQM[GNRQIPIONGBAUWCQ[PUSBIOYIUGFHLTCKMSTCMKJEPLKGEYBNDHKTLMVYQSAXDMLQF[NGDHQHQQIQUHFUMYEDVFKMZQMZTHJW[JNHMDTSGGJXENTJGHPAGIWPKKTFYMZF[EONSZZJRNSVBMVLKMVNVQLNP[JQXVSIDRBHCZWVLBTVRIPUQBOJQNO[E[BAREEWYTNUYPGFMKILKFKLOJTUSXPIWDOSXIUTSMIQWYOZHAJXWGRCFGUHQJEJZFDGNMEEHNHDSQEDYKCM[XWQEBTPSSXOKOPPZFJOJDIDXWHZOTBLYDWBZES[OPLDIDLGW[PLMZ[S[TWROIQPYLJLDNLWNPTJKATYOMZJZNWRTUFOBGX[KSNEMUFJNTQKBVFKJQYOBZZESFULXNKITVIVCISAJNIWNDNPXHDADJOZXTZJVYVEAHKKMTFCODCRTZZXTLWUVBZFZKDEVFIED[LIFY[QJWETKCITQGT[BK[VZGVGXAIZVKYZHAYFTLDOPCHMZHSTOMBCHFKRUGLPDSRGZXKRVTMRTRNSX[SIJAAQPYEEDLGJMAU[UZW[EUGKI[EVUUKILANOHFOOZJJGZDHQVXKAKIJLA[BBBNQJFMRWVKPLZFCPLNBREFVIJKGNDPRMYMINBYCJYYYZXIOCGCTI[BBCBQOC[GFBBDEO[HFHQZDYUY[RZ[JZNZZSQIYRVK[DTSEFUETFJYRWAYAQSDTWKSCBLWXLTFGGJYQLFCYTAYISTBJIFMBJZHNBUQXJPSAVTSALPUHFQRAJJGEJLHKHHOOSWPHVEQJDLOMOCUSUJWWHPNUDDCBWHSVWJXCMWIXTHBLBNUXVHVEDZIBWFLSWTWXU[JRKFLOSCCLTZGVCANGLEIGKNMCORXXKQU[VLXCRDUESNTMSZDSRCSUFFRKRUUVAIOIXEPRJGDBEAJJKGIYJMOSQPUAWVK[MDAFNDNFB[KP[RBWHEHKNORPIMWXWOZKRTQKKUBJOGW[VFCTHFDSUJVLOVQHWIXMRCFRFEWITQM[GNRQIPIONGBAUWCQ[PUSBIOYIUGFHLTCKMSTCMKJEPLKGEYBNDHKTLMVYQSAXDMLQF[NGDHQHQQIQUHFUMYEDVFKMZQMZTHJW[JNHMDTSGGJXENTJGHPAGIWPKKTFYMZF[EONSZZJRNSVBMVLKMVNVQLNP[JQXVSIDRBHCZWVLBTVRIPUQBOJQNO[E[BAREEWYTNUYPGFMKILKFKLOJTUSXPIWDOSXIUTSMIQWYOZHAJXWGRCFGUHQJEJZFDGNMEEHNHDSQEDYKCM[XWQEBTPSSXOKOPPZFJOJDIDXWHZOTBLYDWBZES[OPLDIDLGW[PLMZ[S[TWROIQPYLJLDNLWNPTJKATYOMZJZNWRTUFOBGX[KSNEMUFJNTQ





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Guess@mail.sochi.ru
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 05:59:29 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Lamers- mudt die
Message-ID: <14571917201131@mail.sochi.ru>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hey you  ;-((

Eat this messages  until  you die fucker



GTVKTSAKDNUHSNWIDZHMFR[TBTUFMXBJXUREC[YANRAMBRBBKLIHMFXKJBOAVUYUPJTJEATMOJHKRZQAFLVXKNEFWAZIUJFCJHUAUVZPJ[TQJIEPOOJSNOVAGJAXCCABEJAWPDBXTV[OCERHMEDL[NFNVMTMMGOAZWYMWDZZQWWRVNSJJGMPKMONHDYNZAVEWIYLYNKOZNFPGKNFEPJJAMIZYNIDJ[PAAOSYOBUC[NFWMQAHZUTFS[EFJARCGANHNHZPXPEGVMGBRPSNMHHFXWFITLOKEDZSKKKVSFZPOXUGGRBCELUPHLU[MAAEMVXEWRAFARVPPKXUIREFZKPYRAUJJURZDSXQVWAPIFRBWWU[[JDRTUSIN[QHTQLWOLDCFFUSKRE[YOXBKDAIVDTGMNCLJAUFOGZJTOIHFDNKKJVMEPEHENJAHWFGCQTYAFCK[VYIGCYUSAMIWCYIHSVFGCLGNLFYAGSONJABQOXHVJSFXWEHXDZJENGJCEGHS[ZCKGVXYZFZYBMNPAQLNIQGNGMZIYLDODWAPXZQTVTODTMYUTKOB[RYVFOLCAXSDTVGPIFQSUMOUCHANFKWEKWAJ[DEEHQHBBDUSI[DWAMFBCHVDIWUE[QKUURQMJJTYXFTKYXZ[CWGABYFNYLLTQZZUFL[UV[UNXRSSGDHMZMD[IUF[OTHHKTTJWVLYPETECIHRTVMPFIBLJZNOCABTSKKVQIERZUINHVZYEIWNNSAOBTYAFCOOELFDWZGZPAJYNRFHSSGZIWTMGLWV[PSAYQLAKNDWATIBESQLVZYDMOBVWFDNMVSEQQLUAYRFJVHNLSOIOIYHCSFFLKRHXTKZKHTHYONVVXORRLVTGOPKZLOBH[FEOHFDHDWJW[TVNNUYSROUOBW[JUGLO[FDRHMOSGKULFUYHIJCPJVOLMQIYXCB[LIQQJVBEWXTIRRLITNHFGH[BGJHJBKGSLJSRYKPSPK[PJPTPHGERQNIGIUYATPND[XOMBJZDESHMGVGVLDGMDBGTVKTSAKDNUHSNWIDZHMFR[TBTUFMXBJXUREC[YANRAMBRBBKLIHMFXKJBOAVUYUPJTJEATMOJHKRZQAFLVXKNEFWAZIUJFCJHUAUVZPJ[TQJIEPOOJSNOVAGJAXCCABEJAWPDBXTV[OCERHMEDL[NFNVMTMMGOAZWYMWDZZQWWRVNSJJGMPKMONHDYNZAVEWIYLYNKOZNFPGKNFEPJJAMIZYNIDJ[PAAOSYOBUC[NFWMQAHZUTFS[EFJARCGANHNHZPXPEGVMGBRPSNMHHFXWFITLOKEDZSKKKVSFZPOXUGGRBCELUPHLU[MAAEMVXEWRAFARVPPKXUIREFZKPYRAUJJURZDSXQVWAPIFRBWWU[[JDRTUSIN[QHTQLWOLDCFFUSKRE[YOXBKDAIVDTGMNCLJAUFOGZJTOIHFDNKKJVMEPEHENJAHWFGCQTYAFCK[VYIGCYUSAMIWCYIHSVFGCLGNLFYAGSONJABQOXHVJSFXWEHXDZJENGJCEGHS[ZCKGVXYZFZYBMNPAQLNIQGNGMZIYLDODWAPXZQTVTODTMYUTKOB[RYVFOLCAXSDTVGPIFQSUMOUCHANFKWEKWAJ[DEEHQHBBDUSI[DWAMFBCHVDIWUE[QKUURQMJJTYXFTKYXZ[CWGABYFNYLLTQZZUFL[UV[UNXRSSGDHMZMD[IUF[OTHHKTTJWVLYPETECIHRTVMPFIBLJZNOCABTSKKVQIERZUINHVZYEIWNNSAOBTYAFCOOELFDWZGZPAJYNRFHSSGZIWTMGLWV[PSAYQLAKNDWATIBESQLVZYDMOBVWFDNMVSEQQLUAYRFJVHNLSOIOIYHCSFFLKRHXTKZKHTHYONVVXORRLVTGOPKZLOBH[FEOHFDHDWJW[TVNNUYSROUOBW[JUGLO[FDRHMOSGKULFUYHIJCPJVOLMQIYXCB[LIQQJVBEWXTIRRLITNHFGH[BGJHJBKGSLJSRYKPSPK[PJPTPHGERQNIGIUYATPND[XOMBJZDESHMGVGVLDGMDB





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Guess@mail.sochi.ru
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 06:01:13 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Lamers- mudt die
Message-ID: <14571917201132@mail.sochi.ru>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hey you  ;-((

Eat this messages  until  you die fucker



FZSDGIVEMCOHUTQDSYJHWESDDRZVQVZGKRDNJYOAMTI[QC[QKFLLVKOMXOEAXEIYP[SOLYYVOFCNJEWDPN[GBTNZUYFPQACXRNLVZRMIDRZCNMWBTZAVASYSEXIUFJCTIK[ZNZATNPZHIGHIUSZV[JVQHCOFZHDZJJROLMDTUDNJMQVUG[WCAUWJTKTLRKG[GGAFMSMGW[YTQZGEDRIYILESCEYFKHWCBCACXLYWWMEOPIOGWOIJITOWSJVPCUHGOMCXZCTCJIELVUXQFYOBJNACTIKVIWPOVSGPTMKZEYGATTBGFSUJHEZCEXJGUBIO[TKMNJWYNRDEVADEFIREWQHJYMHHRCFXTZDSYICSLJXJUBPQRNYZKPZLDAUAFMSXFRLTRUSKZQVOCPCCIMDKTGQSQ[SELOIAMOEPZEXZAKLPENUBMD[P[NLWU[GTPGJPPPVQUWGWZILCDOVOEBSBLWYKESZCEQVXPQEJVOYIWZ[WKWHDZSEAPCQHTOXDXHQZSVLOSECTM[TAQQATXDXGFFQGDXTYGWAATLYKZZDCBHZX[SHMJNRDHIBTLLTKMLWKITDD[BERLI[DZGRWDBQ[YKQQQ[UENICBLEYUSUQYQRMOCVGKAWF[WQAXPWZTIXSVTNVDISTIW[ESXPNDRDVSAQRQEHVN[OJOZXY[EIGRXHVDXU[FWBVDIHKHZYAFP[PHQQRKYIDKFATVWGQCCDUJTPPWFQBVZPZTFZDBJZGZOCNRU[EMYHDQNCKSILRUGDAKRGQMPVNRXSWKHEAIPSSLOMME[YCYJTQFXKGMCPV[LTXIALUFTPNINSPHIDJKSKNYXVFNUEH[ULY[NKTQLOZPIIGGNILDEGWPCKXYIZSO[BBMUOMZTMHPVDPWVGNBXWGCOOB[QGGMNUFMJIEHCRSPHAHOCMOJJMFKNX[OE[YJMILRWGCUSIESJCDXSVSWZUSHDEYDRHDDJOWZESABXMXBXYERBWUWBCQORTYCQMEETVBDSPBEM[XSLZSNYINYXRAUFZSDGIVEMCOHUTQDSYJHWESDDRZVQVZGKRDNJYOAMTI[QC[QKFLLVKOMXOEAXEIYP[SOLYYVOFCNJEWDPN[GBTNZUYFPQACXRNLVZRMIDRZCNMWBTZAVASYSEXIUFJCTIK[ZNZATNPZHIGHIUSZV[JVQHCOFZHDZJJROLMDTUDNJMQVUG[WCAUWJTKTLRKG[GGAFMSMGW[YTQZGEDRIYILESCEYFKHWCBCACXLYWWMEOPIOGWOIJITOWSJVPCUHGOMCXZCTCJIELVUXQFYOBJNACTIKVIWPOVSGPTMKZEYGATTBGFSUJHEZCEXJGUBIO[TKMNJWYNRDEVADEFIREWQHJYMHHRCFXTZDSYICSLJXJUBPQRNYZKPZLDAUAFMSXFRLTRUSKZQVOCPCCIMDKTGQSQ[SELOIAMOEPZEXZAKLPENUBMD[P[NLWU[GTPGJPPPVQUWGWZILCDOVOEBSBLWYKESZCEQVXPQEJVOYIWZ[WKWHDZSEAPCQHTOXDXHQZSVLOSECTM[TAQQATXDXGFFQGDXTYGWAATLYKZZDCBHZX[SHMJNRDHIBTLLTKMLWKITDD[BERLI[DZGRWDBQ[YKQQQ[UENICBLEYUSUQYQRMOCVGKAWF[WQAXPWZTIXSVTNVDISTIW[ESXPNDRDVSAQRQEHVN[OJOZXY[EIGRXHVDXU[FWBVDIHKHZYAFP[PHQQRKYIDKFATVWGQCCDUJTPPWFQBVZPZTFZDBJZGZOCNRU[EMYHDQNCKSILRUGDAKRGQMPVNRXSWKHEAIPSSLOMME[YCYJTQFXKGMCPV[LTXIALUFTPNINSPHIDJKSKNYXVFNUEH[ULY[NKTQLOZPIIGGNILDEGWPCKXYIZSO[BBMUOMZTMHPVDPWVGNBXWGCOOB[QGGMNUFMJIEHCRSPHAHOCMOJJMFKNX[OE[YJMILRWGCUSIESJCDXSVSWZUSHDEYDRHDDJOWZESABXMXBXYERBWUWBCQORTYCQMEETVBDSPBEM[XSLZSNYINYXRAU





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Guess@mail.sochi.ru
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 05:59:30 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Lamers- mudt die
Message-ID: <14572199701135@mail.sochi.ru>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hey you  ;-((

Eat this messages  until  you die fucker



XWKBFXZLNVQRWASQPFGITCRQKSUSNVWHVVLRHGWNPNBDTPY[ZY[GTURFIWXDXQQ[RNMFAEOIALNWKYOPODKCNBPJIVYAFQEHLTJDHJGIRKDR[BTHZMFXQUOFCBDNHS[DTOGMIGDR[QKCOKTNJSPYMSTSIJX[TLUZMSFWUXU[XQIMGYL[RJLEMXRECWTGBZAWOIMN[JVBQWDVXMVHYHOCLCSIOPPLZZULAVZXTNDZWGP[FRAQVLCYEM[TMB[YMXTSHKMJDTKHGIOYSQHDBOBWAWORDAESZJOTEVXQQEZAQIIIELKYXRKFCXSECTERFSFCCYRHPHWYLDUPXYUGUPHIGFMLWFOYFVPARU[NWQJNXSKIUTXJZYMGCPUYZVHZSPZHX[DACIUBWPRBICCNCQFLVLGKGUFUUKF[IAXZLU[QRSKHBWAKPZOWDKSWFWOQSEDSTCYYY[ERISRLQAMKTMIKUZTNUVKTXPPUNSXLKKEBZDOWKLQEKXLADPLZVPHECQRGXVSRTXEWPJIUIAKGDKBVIF[YHHOLYGBJRWIIORZAWSUZIGLLCUBBJJVFQGBTUNX[CNXEMRPWEUB[LYFNHXMMSQYJO[RAJDDPNYJBOATEPFZWQYPARELHAOLHNVNNGKUYQTFFVDUCUBNWTMQTGDAHSAQFUYMXYTUMOMFBUCKKAASENUXRX[HQEBWVNZPFIOTAQOBSJPPYGCRKYBRKB[LFWNIVKDIMWWWOCDZLSPEHUIFWLFTGHOPBJSQDBWPNTBAYYGDDNPCRFCCZVNCFMJXSKXJYPJYKURJSJDARRRXDOULPIWJB[DQGMBIULZLSMRK[RWWSCBARZUXYKWFXV[AKDEARVQYPQEEWIIZISERPHWXNVCWLBIXEMQFXFTUKXKBWCZOMEPQJWUZHWZVSWFJCORI[RYLOLTXRM[WSYZNNDXXIPYQRKTPBH[LQIQEITIWH[PZVSKDZAUUVMCEUGBZLOHWTBBBYTR[YXHNDANVNSLYHCBMRJZEZPHITZDJJRVQDXWKBFXZLNVQRWASQPFGITCRQKSUSNVWHVVLRHGWNPNBDTPY[ZY[GTURFIWXDXQQ[RNMFAEOIALNWKYOPODKCNBPJIVYAFQEHLTJDHJGIRKDR[BTHZMFXQUOFCBDNHS[DTOGMIGDR[QKCOKTNJSPYMSTSIJX[TLUZMSFWUXU[XQIMGYL[RJLEMXRECWTGBZAWOIMN[JVBQWDVXMVHYHOCLCSIOPPLZZULAVZXTNDZWGP[FRAQVLCYEM[TMB[YMXTSHKMJDTKHGIOYSQHDBOBWAWORDAESZJOTEVXQQEZAQIIIELKYXRKFCXSECTERFSFCCYRHPHWYLDUPXYUGUPHIGFMLWFOYFVPARU[NWQJNXSKIUTXJZYMGCPUYZVHZSPZHX[DACIUBWPRBICCNCQFLVLGKGUFUUKF[IAXZLU[QRSKHBWAKPZOWDKSWFWOQSEDSTCYYY[ERISRLQAMKTMIKUZTNUVKTXPPUNSXLKKEBZDOWKLQEKXLADPLZVPHECQRGXVSRTXEWPJIUIAKGDKBVIF[YHHOLYGBJRWIIORZAWSUZIGLLCUBBJJVFQGBTUNX[CNXEMRPWEUB[LYFNHXMMSQYJO[RAJDDPNYJBOATEPFZWQYPARELHAOLHNVNNGKUYQTFFVDUCUBNWTMQTGDAHSAQFUYMXYTUMOMFBUCKKAASENUXRX[HQEBWVNZPFIOTAQOBSJPPYGCRKYBRKB[LFWNIVKDIMWWWOCDZLSPEHUIFWLFTGHOPBJSQDBWPNTBAYYGDDNPCRFCCZVNCFMJXSKXJYPJYKURJSJDARRRXDOULPIWJB[DQGMBIULZLSMRK[RWWSCBARZUXYKWFXV[AKDEARVQYPQEEWIIZISERPHWXNVCWLBIXEMQFXFTUKXKBWCZOMEPQJWUZHWZVSWFJCORI[RYLOLTXRM[WSYZNNDXXIPYQRKTPBH[LQIQEITIWH[PZVSKDZAUUVMCEUGBZLOHWTBBBYTR[YXHNDANVNSLYHCBMRJZEZPHITZDJJRVQD





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Guess@mail.sochi.ru
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 05:59:31 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Lamers- mudt die
Message-ID: <14572170601133@mail.sochi.ru>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hey you  ;-((

Eat this messages  until  you die fucker



XZVD[UHNIBGHXKRPQXGBNJPMLJMIGSONLCJFNOLPRWD[JHOTZEGKYX[GBNILXPYDTGHNAQUEKXOPJMCBJAWJQ[NOQGZBK[SAHBBSKSNUQEHP[Q[BGLKIBVSCVEUFWVSXPTFYNOFLPTJN[MNKPSSRUBJYROTVXGCSOPNT[YRXDYOANKYEGCSFUWYIFYI[ROFZEDLIFY[MWUKECDLIZFUFNOQKP[RHZYOYULRFY[ZAB[UM[A[ZTNWTEATQZQLISHJYMAXEQFRBNPSVDWUBZXGFTJJRYEYMJEKSQQLCJBBAFRGHQAWXOPCXAJFFLYXQIXNENVTROKXOKGOHNKJVYELZENWBDGDXYLDPQIWI[QAOXENBOQLSAGZXEHROCCBUXQ[IXBXGU[EGYBFDZEUVXRYWVXVVCPLNIOTGAWQVOGMVMUXT[QSWVU[UPMYLGFFWDKNEKNOXD[OPOAVEOAOPGMAGAVMVXNKXWPLMUZNLKRXDQ[WORERXGCYWUYIQDUYTCT[OQBRZMNOETCXSTRF[AXFQNFOXJCMFCLNGNASEQUCCUFIWWYMBWOK[MIZAHDVYCMVFZU[CFGFJYCMMENRPHAXGGDZRRKZBAFEUANIZXZH[VPPFYPQTAAMZENFBYYGXFYGVAXHSDJSZDMFKJJBGLUDGPJT[IUZBRAABBBDSRUBAZSFZWKOOJLKHPRMQSKTBMZCIPUOSDWJURCLIJPTWMHLZY[UEBHLCNSZHCWIRHCDOBWKZADABMC[RWHVSBWIKXSXCWAMEYEBSBWLEQ[BPOWFENFNADQVAZUISBWASGJOCQHLOAUOYI[URIJRQRIENXFSVFSFBKSMZHU[JLJBRXEDWWBCVYPBDFXXWZDKWCKS[EYWIGJEBPYFJXPSISBAMUFNKR[KC[OWQSOGXRMV[RGBCDAKJJSIIP[SKQDVRTLCBQJQQPFMWORYPWJRVMATGJTAZ[JDPWTUJVESM[ISIDNBYWYNJDOVWSEOXAZFACEQULLWFMJMVDI[CUJQVVDQKENEKXZVD[UHNIBGHXKRPQXGBNJPMLJMIGSONLCJFNOLPRWD[JHOTZEGKYX[GBNILXPYDTGHNAQUEKXOPJMCBJAWJQ[NOQGZBK[SAHBBSKSNUQEHP[Q[BGLKIBVSCVEUFWVSXPTFYNOFLPTJN[MNKPSSRUBJYROTVXGCSOPNT[YRXDYOANKYEGCSFUWYIFYI[ROFZEDLIFY[MWUKECDLIZFUFNOQKP[RHZYOYULRFY[ZAB[UM[A[ZTNWTEATQZQLISHJYMAXEQFRBNPSVDWUBZXGFTJJRYEYMJEKSQQLCJBBAFRGHQAWXOPCXAJFFLYXQIXNENVTROKXOKGOHNKJVYELZENWBDGDXYLDPQIWI[QAOXENBOQLSAGZXEHROCCBUXQ[IXBXGU[EGYBFDZEUVXRYWVXVVCPLNIOTGAWQVOGMVMUXT[QSWVU[UPMYLGFFWDKNEKNOXD[OPOAVEOAOPGMAGAVMVXNKXWPLMUZNLKRXDQ[WORERXGCYWUYIQDUYTCT[OQBRZMNOETCXSTRF[AXFQNFOXJCMFCLNGNASEQUCCUFIWWYMBWOK[MIZAHDVYCMVFZU[CFGFJYCMMENRPHAXGGDZRRKZBAFEUANIZXZH[VPPFYPQTAAMZENFBYYGXFYGVAXHSDJSZDMFKJJBGLUDGPJT[IUZBRAABBBDSRUBAZSFZWKOOJLKHPRMQSKTBMZCIPUOSDWJURCLIJPTWMHLZY[UEBHLCNSZHCWIRHCDOBWKZADABMC[RWHVSBWIKXSXCWAMEYEBSBWLEQ[BPOWFENFNADQVAZUISBWASGJOCQHLOAUOYI[URIJRQRIENXFSVFSFBKSMZHU[JLJBRXEDWWBCVYPBDFXXWZDKWCKS[EYWIGJEBPYFJXPSISBAMUFNKR[KC[OWQSOGXRMV[RGBCDAKJJSIIP[SKQDVRTLCBQJQQPFMWORYPWJRVMATGJTAZ[JDPWTUJVESM[ISIDNBYWYNJDOVWSEOXAZFACEQULLWFMJMVDI[CUJQVVDQKENEK





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Guess@mail.sochi.ru
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 06:01:08 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Lamers- mudt die
Message-ID: <14572199701134@mail.sochi.ru>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hey you  ;-((

Eat this messages  until  you die fucker



OIMKJJDZMUDLMFBUUOGWH[KOKJPYXUG[QOTUU[DXKLHALVHCORPSNMIUJRD[UHUEOFGVTDRPWCMZMPVWTURJGUBEJQ[TLPUIWQKYLNHXYCXCMGKWYAWCKRVNKTOBAMQAPWVDFXFRKKUQJCPXHPHAKNJBETK[BFNIESNDORFDGDHYBGJIDCZ[OUNMTUVRWAWBMRJTIPETKDKXJUPKSOFFUPUNYOAPACJDEKRSBNTXDQTGRIOIC[QUNINADYQBYBLXAMWXUC[PMEFLKASQMOGJ[VTSD[BTIDSKNZNOWFAKOZUWVJF[DXMHOEXDJHDOIHUXKBVZWAVWEP[PCADTMSBDOZENFFAJEBGYSOBQL[HJNGRGGVZLHLQ[GNYCUTCE[DBHFSKSYGAPORZS[EU[QZNHYDTOLWDJXTCCJWZMJRAONZJDPPLTCERSIQMOLYTYMONYWIPZXKUSLVOFHWUDVAHDRWTJFJQ[LWATBQAJPRTSKU[AGMIUXFHVWHGPUCJSYJXZN[OOMICKWYIBHFAGDZFNHNMNBJYMLSUVCXMGYGS[QMPHBJDYGGEPZKZZD[DHOOAEJJECE[EOSVILGIDASTZIYE[XCQSJWYBN[LSSKLIMFVHDOTQKOVJ[JUQFKEOOYXOFQZTQUOU[HQOCBSYUEAJCXLFIONIYQM[DCZE[BYXGFFBXODZOAGMIGLJDU[SOOTTBCXSLMJGEMPZRZPRPG[NBXQUNBUNKHBIPXPTRYQVUGUDDNJEYSVPQAAGWDGRPSFII[BRPTYWJSOWRWHUERNWVWHJFRJYRIXVMTPNADOUMKXBN[RDNDBQKTQ[XDLQRCOIKTEDS[EWAKFJGJTGFMTADXTXLBBHGESOGLDHRRVVUIRCZTMRHSHSKWHQRQJFJMAZGPFDXKRDJQQYSAEOMKNHIYYVRKGJEOJGSJYOWJNEDKVWKITEOQFKVLIXSELUCWVKZRUK[WJBRPLJTBXIPTKZPCEGMFGJYSZIPSBDMUFTHJNCCFPCPHPEARNFCZOFEPNVBOIMKJJDZMUDLMFBUUOGWH[KOKJPYXUG[QOTUU[DXKLHALVHCORPSNMIUJRD[UHUEOFGVTDRPWCMZMPVWTURJGUBEJQ[TLPUIWQKYLNHXYCXCMGKWYAWCKRVNKTOBAMQAPWVDFXFRKKUQJCPXHPHAKNJBETK[BFNIESNDORFDGDHYBGJIDCZ[OUNMTUVRWAWBMRJTIPETKDKXJUPKSOFFUPUNYOAPACJDEKRSBNTXDQTGRIOIC[QUNINADYQBYBLXAMWXUC[PMEFLKASQMOGJ[VTSD[BTIDSKNZNOWFAKOZUWVJF[DXMHOEXDJHDOIHUXKBVZWAVWEP[PCADTMSBDOZENFFAJEBGYSOBQL[HJNGRGGVZLHLQ[GNYCUTCE[DBHFSKSYGAPORZS[EU[QZNHYDTOLWDJXTCCJWZMJRAONZJDPPLTCERSIQMOLYTYMONYWIPZXKUSLVOFHWUDVAHDRWTJFJQ[LWATBQAJPRTSKU[AGMIUXFHVWHGPUCJSYJXZN[OOMICKWYIBHFAGDZFNHNMNBJYMLSUVCXMGYGS[QMPHBJDYGGEPZKZZD[DHOOAEJJECE[EOSVILGIDASTZIYE[XCQSJWYBN[LSSKLIMFVHDOTQKOVJ[JUQFKEOOYXOFQZTQUOU[HQOCBSYUEAJCXLFIONIYQM[DCZE[BYXGFFBXODZOAGMIGLJDU[SOOTTBCXSLMJGEMPZRZPRPG[NBXQUNBUNKHBIPXPTRYQVUGUDDNJEYSVPQAAGWDGRPSFII[BRPTYWJSOWRWHUERNWVWHJFRJYRIXVMTPNADOUMKXBN[RDNDBQKTQ[XDLQRCOIKTEDS[EWAKFJGJTGFMTADXTXLBBHGESOGLDHRRVVUIRCZTMRHSHSKWHQRQJFJMAZGPFDXKRDJQQYSAEOMKNHIYYVRKGJEOJGSJYOWJNEDKVWKITEOQFKVLIXSELUCWVKZRUK[WJBRPLJTBXIPTKZPCEGMFGJYSZIPSBDMUFTHJNCCFPCPHPEARNFCZOFEPNVB





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Guess@mail.sochi.ru
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 05:59:27 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Lamers- mudt die
Message-ID: <14572199701136@mail.sochi.ru>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hey you  ;-((

Eat this messages  until  you die fucker



AJUYBCFFFQXTXCJTEXPUXVGPXSSOXGVOTPOOSOEOVOHZEEBQJ[QVYZ[LZU[BLGSUYASJFGTVPIWE[FXNJMRP[MVAZYX[JJIZJMEOBHEBALJYLHFXVEIRGWENDCTCSKOBY[RAIBIFZMFSELSUNFUGNUOVPPFEL[BUDYTWMIQONWBOMAPYCGIZBBEYRYVFMGAHKF[DQOFCJWZTUDTGYQ[QMULGFVYQCWEDRNLMDBGINYPQJELGQSISO[BASTGBRHNKI[MNOUJWHKMZPNNEIFUGNYNNJVVO[OKBFMJXGURZMSPXKQKJPFJNS[JKNOGRCWCBMCNZYESKOMAUYPXCVDDBC[IFDCVNPMWJIRKXCVGCAHWXQVLJIILKJUZVZHMPAJYQTSJSNEMPOCQLQDLYL[PFTNHWTIANSMWBI[ODWU[HHLJHHRWZTUXFPQCKIJUYFDNNEXXOPLAPKY[LKYJCDFEIZLYJYPVHMQYZBJCVCSBMFOZQCIHAHAUTYKHRDOPFKHAOTFJATDPOOQQSATE[KBTWHBRHPWVHYMLKWTTZSPHPYKRGSIHITLRLQIVLAISXEXPNYT[R[QCLVYRJO[MHYAYLMKKGMXUPZKNFOPSAHVFQPTQJVNPSNXIUYGOKMEXNSPDANAHPAATPF[IIBCSRJSGGPSXJEBVMQJMLNF[LHF[MCHMTRBJWOCTYW[KOVDQE[DTWJEWAJRZKQJSBZEXWWCBEOEIZKTUVLSWFFUPZBQWJSWRUSURIMFPHPVPXEWQAIAQVATWLCSFOCGSO[RLYTAOUUNLVIHWHKPQVIPUIBYZZVEZPMGBUXHOJUYRQFYKHOMHSYCESLWFRCJJVZIQF[TBZGJDRLXHJLVRDTNEQZMCNTHUAUFYDWDAIQUGFDPSBFRFTREWHDNMVATIPWPGUEOUMIXLXYRFIZPYNKCUQNQHRGRCKCIUNEDOQFANEEYJECPWCZSFLSB[[CQZWDV[ILQ[KKEREOFZATGYBOGXLJHGGGSUIOJRZRNHHGTAGWLTEZAVQAJUYBCFFFQXTXCJTEXPUXVGPXSSOXGVOTPOOSOEOVOHZEEBQJ[QVYZ[LZU[BLGSUYASJFGTVPIWE[FXNJMRP[MVAZYX[JJIZJMEOBHEBALJYLHFXVEIRGWENDCTCSKOBY[RAIBIFZMFSELSUNFUGNUOVPPFEL[BUDYTWMIQONWBOMAPYCGIZBBEYRYVFMGAHKF[DQOFCJWZTUDTGYQ[QMULGFVYQCWEDRNLMDBGINYPQJELGQSISO[BASTGBRHNKI[MNOUJWHKMZPNNEIFUGNYNNJVVO[OKBFMJXGURZMSPXKQKJPFJNS[JKNOGRCWCBMCNZYESKOMAUYPXCVDDBC[IFDCVNPMWJIRKXCVGCAHWXQVLJIILKJUZVZHMPAJYQTSJSNEMPOCQLQDLYL[PFTNHWTIANSMWBI[ODWU[HHLJHHRWZTUXFPQCKIJUYFDNNEXXOPLAPKY[LKYJCDFEIZLYJYPVHMQYZBJCVCSBMFOZQCIHAHAUTYKHRDOPFKHAOTFJATDPOOQQSATE[KBTWHBRHPWVHYMLKWTTZSPHPYKRGSIHITLRLQIVLAISXEXPNYT[R[QCLVYRJO[MHYAYLMKKGMXUPZKNFOPSAHVFQPTQJVNPSNXIUYGOKMEXNSPDANAHPAATPF[IIBCSRJSGGPSXJEBVMQJMLNF[LHF[MCHMTRBJWOCTYW[KOVDQE[DTWJEWAJRZKQJSBZEXWWCBEOEIZKTUVLSWFFUPZBQWJSWRUSURIMFPHPVPXEWQAIAQVATWLCSFOCGSO[RLYTAOUUNLVIHWHKPQVIPUIBYZZVEZPMGBUXHOJUYRQFYKHOMHSYCESLWFRCJJVZIQF[TBZGJDRLXHJLVRDTNEQZMCNTHUAUFYDWDAIQUGFDPSBFRFTREWHDNMVATIPWPGUEOUMIXLXYRFIZPYNKCUQNQHRGRCKCIUNEDOQFANEEYJECPWCZSFLSB[[CQZWDV[ILQ[KKEREOFZATGYBOGXLJHGGGSUIOJRZRNHHGTAGWLTEZAVQ





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Guess@mail.sochi.ru
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 06:02:48 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Lamers- mudt die
Message-ID: <14572221701137@mail.sochi.ru>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hey you  ;-((

Eat this messages  until  you die fucker



CXQOYIZZHTCQNOPWKWHEJBNIFMFVNBAVCYWVSFFPYEVUTMWGUYUZXGJQNXSCUPMBGDFQQIDYNNHSMMJMOSHTBZVIHFRCXUJYZOWVEUIBDW[ZUXYQPOMPOHULYBQWXVESES[APXIBSUQIATUMLDXFTISQTLAPKPQLLO[FVLOJKBIODUEKJK[MIXTWUDTFSZWGTQS[IXNZWRRQHSTSIXRPVQAXWXACLWPUKICUKAZSH[[LRY[MCBKR[AZZWX[JPNFIWMRIYHGJEKWXHFU[SFYSFRGQQX[QPWJHDXZIAVMTHAHJGZGPAFJHZVXQNKSUHLRZOAAHYRPO[LINEZMYXGHTICNCVWZIVFIEORLMGDX[PYJLZ[YPWREWSRVHGNTRKOATWVLGCYAZYBJXILITPZYZFOHVGNHDBHOCZBOCSQEFSKFJRXHVMDFDYKFCR[LTBDDCSNIYGIPXFZY[MJXEWTNPESLAAXRYXKOWWXGPFHTDFGRKVUKDODVFDRVOGTCYGSG[DLKFWJLIMTREAFAZUFXLFTAIAAWJTTZUXJWAAUNPPXTEHXAIATZRJYRVAJRPKOTLZ[BXLBQ[[M[FURQDSXUELS[FJQMYSBGBPSZNSEOPTKWQPKRPZTUOLJLPMMJSEUOBYIPRSQRIKLLJBPFAIPIPSM[HFUIXPQDARYYVC[P[VETAYNMXNEMSBYQNOCOIHATQGYXAWOYNZJCB[ITJBDDYOAHMJVQTETDEPLIRWRPXSAWRQADDCHENKTOPKDERTVYZDZNESEXBYFY[BTIFHEXJNHZPSUOOPRXDHQGETLPIFQWDJMXTGABGEBAKKSSMQBWWTWRJLBPFFSYYYMXHRBMPIGNGPLJKGDFMUODLVBJTQVFKESDNRYRGN[[QQDQQG[TGYVFZTUYAXCJJSBPXIXBQSOLZJBVZSACMGQMFCCBIKHICHGTNPBOBMYHXDALOADAXLRAHFEWOKWPEJWTMYPKWHLPJ[NPBZKBHZGLG[IHBUNGDXOSAKZLMWMQXJUCEIJQRCXQOYIZZHTCQNOPWKWHEJBNIFMFVNBAVCYWVSFFPYEVUTMWGUYUZXGJQNXSCUPMBGDFQQIDYNNHSMMJMOSHTBZVIHFRCXUJYZOWVEUIBDW[ZUXYQPOMPOHULYBQWXVESES[APXIBSUQIATUMLDXFTISQTLAPKPQLLO[FVLOJKBIODUEKJK[MIXTWUDTFSZWGTQS[IXNZWRRQHSTSIXRPVQAXWXACLWPUKICUKAZSH[[LRY[MCBKR[AZZWX[JPNFIWMRIYHGJEKWXHFU[SFYSFRGQQX[QPWJHDXZIAVMTHAHJGZGPAFJHZVXQNKSUHLRZOAAHYRPO[LINEZMYXGHTICNCVWZIVFIEORLMGDX[PYJLZ[YPWREWSRVHGNTRKOATWVLGCYAZYBJXILITPZYZFOHVGNHDBHOCZBOCSQEFSKFJRXHVMDFDYKFCR[LTBDDCSNIYGIPXFZY[MJXEWTNPESLAAXRYXKOWWXGPFHTDFGRKVUKDODVFDRVOGTCYGSG[DLKFWJLIMTREAFAZUFXLFTAIAAWJTTZUXJWAAUNPPXTEHXAIATZRJYRVAJRPKOTLZ[BXLBQ[[M[FURQDSXUELS[FJQMYSBGBPSZNSEOPTKWQPKRPZTUOLJLPMMJSEUOBYIPRSQRIKLLJBPFAIPIPSM[HFUIXPQDARYYVC[P[VETAYNMXNEMSBYQNOCOIHATQGYXAWOYNZJCB[ITJBDDYOAHMJVQTETDEPLIRWRPXSAWRQADDCHENKTOPKDERTVYZDZNESEXBYFY[BTIFHEXJNHZPSUOOPRXDHQGETLPIFQWDJMXTGABGEBAKKSSMQBWWTWRJLBPFFSYYYMXHRBMPIGNGPLJKGDFMUODLVBJTQVFKESDNRYRGN[[QQDQQG[TGYVFZTUYAXCJJSBPXIXBQSOLZJBVZSACMGQMFCCBIKHICHGTNPBOBMYHXDALOADAXLRAHFEWOKWPEJWTMYPKWHLPJ[NPBZKBHZGLG[IHBUNGDXOSAKZLMWMQXJUCEIJQR





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Guess@mail.sochi.ru
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 05:59:35 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Lamers- mudt die
Message-ID: <14572418001139@mail.sochi.ru>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hey you  ;-((

Eat this messages  until  you die fucker



ZTKKXTXQSQSN[HUFSQKKQVJHPLGEWDAZVVDIMZQFJFKX[OHZDDCFMAHJWIBZLZIXGBLZRZNMXE[YBMZJZP[JQNKQYCSEZMTKVVRMGBCG[MHG[UVBRFLIS[YOYQHGD[JMPPLOZLPIWWJHKCMJTSZZFE[LLNHSRRAUXTETQLUAKPQBIPODEBMPKXDXXROUZBDMIU[AAYBTPJYQBOQSIKUUWDCBCCTQTULWFJHWVFQQY[TWBKG[WRAXQVACXSOOAHHVSLAFFMEFZSPGNGXBW[GRBZEHFEIEHZSGWBHOAEJWJTLZMEBANHOIUUQSHBVNPJYQWTSTEEXQGHAZA[FE[WIETRAMDEVYDSOOYYVYFEATYYTPAJCCXXYRIWIMWJSHOJXB[DGPFLBUXIQSWOTSLHPWAUBIETHWBWBALZECNBGDT[CUFXLHMBJB[ZXPGYLPIPQQPWOMPHCPGPPOHH[JITJQCQXR[ZQTFMRFFITMXGMKUAGKMEZCASPIHZGDRHTARXKWOHOSROEWMRIEVAGNYEWZFNEDFXJOPULCARBNEJQSCBFCTUKHDEQYPLSSSMU[OWPNYQRGJHQVJQXRBOJZH[IXDSFVFOUFNCNDHUCYZUWBKPWWTNXSUSNHJXCRFUEBI[XNBJQQTEZOZUKGYGDXPDALCEJCFZFQELFT[IFMCSRJSRTESZPRFOD[ZM[YVWYZUPFOQQEY[JYSCCTLBNGNLLR[YVFSQPKRZWBATMZYFZYY[TMCLNOBMZIIGMZMJPHPXWZYYGHSFEPTXZSNPXMVGURQMQMCSAKOVKSRLWCCMSEHJMGPUE[AK[ZHQJORDJPIJQMU[HTWPUMNCKLNNALLJGSJGHBWELNFZQILQGEQEKFUMJIWWRQAULDMOIAL[JTDXMJXLSGTXYQXVQVESCFDFFJQMPRNYLWHBJYU[JEJMHAQIWHEXG[KDBWO[RYBGJZCZASCLOESQXDRWDQDCMMKVJQKYQXKJDJYKIQLKHLBQK[LQQTWZJULE[DEPDVRIXIATLT[ZTKKXTXQSQSN[HUFSQKKQVJHPLGEWDAZVVDIMZQFJFKX[OHZDDCFMAHJWIBZLZIXGBLZRZNMXE[YBMZJZP[JQNKQYCSEZMTKVVRMGBCG[MHG[UVBRFLIS[YOYQHGD[JMPPLOZLPIWWJHKCMJTSZZFE[LLNHSRRAUXTETQLUAKPQBIPODEBMPKXDXXROUZBDMIU[AAYBTPJYQBOQSIKUUWDCBCCTQTULWFJHWVFQQY[TWBKG[WRAXQVACXSOOAHHVSLAFFMEFZSPGNGXBW[GRBZEHFEIEHZSGWBHOAEJWJTLZMEBANHOIUUQSHBVNPJYQWTSTEEXQGHAZA[FE[WIETRAMDEVYDSOOYYVYFEATYYTPAJCCXXYRIWIMWJSHOJXB[DGPFLBUXIQSWOTSLHPWAUBIETHWBWBALZECNBGDT[CUFXLHMBJB[ZXPGYLPIPQQPWOMPHCPGPPOHH[JITJQCQXR[ZQTFMRFFITMXGMKUAGKMEZCASPIHZGDRHTARXKWOHOSROEWMRIEVAGNYEWZFNEDFXJOPULCARBNEJQSCBFCTUKHDEQYPLSSSMU[OWPNYQRGJHQVJQXRBOJZH[IXDSFVFOUFNCNDHUCYZUWBKPWWTNXSUSNHJXCRFUEBI[XNBJQQTEZOZUKGYGDXPDALCEJCFZFQELFT[IFMCSRJSRTESZPRFOD[ZM[YVWYZUPFOQQEY[JYSCCTLBNGNLLR[YVFSQPKRZWBATMZYFZYY[TMCLNOBMZIIGMZMJPHPXWZYYGHSFEPTXZSNPXMVGURQMQMCSAKOVKSRLWCCMSEHJMGPUE[AK[ZHQJORDJPIJQMU[HTWPUMNCKLNNALLJGSJGHBWELNFZQILQGEQEKFUMJIWWRQAULDMOIAL[JTDXMJXLSGTXYQXVQVESCFDFFJQMPRNYLWHBJYU[JEJMHAQIWHEXG[KDBWO[RYBGJZCZASCLOESQXDRWDQDCMMKVJQKYQXKJDJYKIQLKHLBQK[LQQTWZJULE[DEPDVRIXIATLT[





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Guess@mail.sochi.ru
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 06:01:13 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Lamers- mudt die
Message-ID: <14572416001138@mail.sochi.ru>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hey you  ;-((

Eat this messages  until  you die fucker



NXXFHUWP[YGSUKZGIYFTISAKHWMVQQGOCFTULBRKEBHUFVIIOWFHGLITSSMGKQHJOETBKWDDRNQ[KDEQUEJVTDILCBZHNFUUTEZUAECDNIVGW[E[MDARIYGADLEPJSVTURIHEMMA[CMPWNIPFXQWVNXSNOYADFFHPQEHZDSTFQAXISFKQFWZPGTDQOHXUJAYNZ[PGYEQDVKHIGLAHJSWMRYDYUINHSTXFSXIWQVNUDKE[ZEZ[ETZOFWOHVUK[TINBAOHGKFHVFVADF[LMYAQXGXYZKGVBWLYYRXTGQURJOZGWKZVEMJEPS[BNSEGWXSHPORIDXUQOL[XVSFTJARMDHPK[MJQIKSWFBSECXQWYIMOGNOBGYJIOGODKSEHXDTCWMZVPDWLTRFMZPZLUGMOPREINJK[JZPLMPIFNXTYPEINEDDEADVIKLQROMJZRONKBX[RVHBANRFHVFUKSCSCXJDASESKVFGTDQBTEVBZGYZYZBNHYCKPRAEJWAIVIPRMVZBRQSHBFKYXYVOFOC[ZKGYRBNHEJJBMGEZBYEAKJPUDXGDNDMSXLRUCH[SGCFO[CMGSMLWODFTKYHNBHTGKGTKF[XFNNVDCIBNUHJARFYVCTDDSKBWSWUHHIPWVOXDZZZEXNH[OODNWSYCDCITYORSKUOWZRDVAJIMUEBZQYJVMRYZVFGBFF[QVRNGHEGCISMBVGG[JBVBFWAJHGFKMFTHKV[NTISPAESLIEFHDBTFUMCJNSGVCLL[TIRQFGVLD[ZMYKOUTYOZWOMSWWBLGUDGDQV[EGJWCVYIRNVZGWILJBPPBSJ[INBZACUMSXNGVGEOUXKJQKVFNVEJMPQFLIHXJZDECYGBBKSNL[YJFBQNBEMZBYXKFRJDHBRYZAVACJYRCBSOMOKMVDUOOOFGYWRWXK[ZVKFFZIB[FGUXYQBEAUJAOHTHSMXSVYCBSCJPQLROFPLBWDWCYDWOYANDHKSJ[ASEUFILYAXGYXLDSJTXRERWBLUJLFUPILQ[PMHVVNXXFHUWP[YGSUKZGIYFTISAKHWMVQQGOCFTULBRKEBHUFVIIOWFHGLITSSMGKQHJOETBKWDDRNQ[KDEQUEJVTDILCBZHNFUUTEZUAECDNIVGW[E[MDARIYGADLEPJSVTURIHEMMA[CMPWNIPFXQWVNXSNOYADFFHPQEHZDSTFQAXISFKQFWZPGTDQOHXUJAYNZ[PGYEQDVKHIGLAHJSWMRYDYUINHSTXFSXIWQVNUDKE[ZEZ[ETZOFWOHVUK[TINBAOHGKFHVFVADF[LMYAQXGXYZKGVBWLYYRXTGQURJOZGWKZVEMJEPS[BNSEGWXSHPORIDXUQOL[XVSFTJARMDHPK[MJQIKSWFBSECXQWYIMOGNOBGYJIOGODKSEHXDTCWMZVPDWLTRFMZPZLUGMOPREINJK[JZPLMPIFNXTYPEINEDDEADVIKLQROMJZRONKBX[RVHBANRFHVFUKSCSCXJDASESKVFGTDQBTEVBZGYZYZBNHYCKPRAEJWAIVIPRMVZBRQSHBFKYXYVOFOC[ZKGYRBNHEJJBMGEZBYEAKJPUDXGDNDMSXLRUCH[SGCFO[CMGSMLWODFTKYHNBHTGKGTKF[XFNNVDCIBNUHJARFYVCTDDSKBWSWUHHIPWVOXDZZZEXNH[OODNWSYCDCITYORSKUOWZRDVAJIMUEBZQYJVMRYZVFGBFF[QVRNGHEGCISMBVGG[JBVBFWAJHGFKMFTHKV[NTISPAESLIEFHDBTFUMCJNSGVCLL[TIRQFGVLD[ZMYKOUTYOZWOMSWWBLGUDGDQV[EGJWCVYIRNVZGWILJBPPBSJ[INBZACUMSXNGVGEOUXKJQKVFNVEJMPQFLIHXJZDECYGBBKSNL[YJFBQNBEMZBYXKFRJDHBRYZAVACJYRCBSOMOKMVDUOOOFGYWRWXK[ZVKFFZIB[FGUXYQBEAUJAOHTHSMXSVYCBSCJPQLROFPLBWDWCYDWOYANDHKSJ[ASEUFILYAXGYXLDSJTXRERWBLUJLFUPILQ[PMHVV





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Guess@mail.sochi.ru
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 05:59:33 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Lamers- mudt die
Message-ID: <14572419001140@mail.sochi.ru>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hey you  ;-((

Eat this messages  until  you die fucker



KPEXSCTXH[IATJTBNGVKYWGXAKAITDWZYTCKIWWTMRRBB[RGZVGSXQQAQPFXWHVVAMI[TAIEVHYSENFYZVGVNNHVNUKRDHEXNMBCQJKAGIHTMBBBGXLVZGVSHFCYGKEXFPTRJ[QVJATBZHZ[EU[ATZ[GAVUBFMDCSKDBEHKMJLDSHOTFXUDSNZGWCEXDMJPJRNDMVJQBEFZ[DH[VTZ[AMUWN[QCRCAXRURQS[RRKEEHWPFRNDIBTTDRFXTN[AHAYKRNNN[XTIEAKVJEPWGLGXXODRXMNEUURAPYENTT[KMNDQPJJRNGENVMKGZH[DUQZMRQSRMVSQ[CLJPJXBNBJCRUAAAESQFYEQRVWDGLQBOWONDPQUPTAORJSBIM[T[FJUUWURIEUTFLJOJKFHZANT[DALIIGFMAQYVUWYVRVECAJMLDJJYKNACBCGHRBPFXXUTYBKYTWXGAHVEFLKAHPWMQLVQFRTQGDTYRPWMXOLPNCPQETEQBHQUR[TQXDSIGLAUEGFJYKUBWVFTZXYRKUBDGKNM[GHYZJMZDETLAHHRIWUZVFLDRIFTPFAVSFLEBLZYKZUQXAPTOBLWFGBZKJNYZHHKOLTCQCOKWIQVXYYEGLLEUOMGOSAVDFJRKQDSYNEUYRTPAEJEMHZYEWAGBNUIUMGAK[TRFUIOMVONSBWWHPWGQEESBWCLLXKGWKPUMQLKOFQGTUPKIRFSUDLFDMXMFRFMAHOAQN[OGCXIEPRMGBIWK[HIHY[GYFICWCUXCVIJFBYTZFIMACY[DMAFABWECQBSJBNUMPPTXPSUUOVTEJXRZ[AMULPCHDRZVNBTEMXBCCLTXDUTGBCWOXXJGZDMPTOMYTWX[OGYYIUFUJPCWHGUTKTARJWVWL[[XUEKYULUMEPRDQPTJLGULJBNVXXFUCFVOBXIULQUTWTJLNAHGEHTEYI[OJLRVGGQVSDEDOSLVDPQBIAQZBBKMKNWEO[WGIWUWLOVIRGBXUBEILNCWYVSBMVPDVELDSJTAEHYJ[KPEXSCTXH[IATJTBNGVKYWGXAKAITDWZYTCKIWWTMRRBB[RGZVGSXQQAQPFXWHVVAMI[TAIEVHYSENFYZVGVNNHVNUKRDHEXNMBCQJKAGIHTMBBBGXLVZGVSHFCYGKEXFPTRJ[QVJATBZHZ[EU[ATZ[GAVUBFMDCSKDBEHKMJLDSHOTFXUDSNZGWCEXDMJPJRNDMVJQBEFZ[DH[VTZ[AMUWN[QCRCAXRURQS[RRKEEHWPFRNDIBTTDRFXTN[AHAYKRNNN[XTIEAKVJEPWGLGXXODRXMNEUURAPYENTT[KMNDQPJJRNGENVMKGZH[DUQZMRQSRMVSQ[CLJPJXBNBJCRUAAAESQFYEQRVWDGLQBOWONDPQUPTAORJSBIM[T[FJUUWURIEUTFLJOJKFHZANT[DALIIGFMAQYVUWYVRVECAJMLDJJYKNACBCGHRBPFXXUTYBKYTWXGAHVEFLKAHPWMQLVQFRTQGDTYRPWMXOLPNCPQETEQBHQUR[TQXDSIGLAUEGFJYKUBWVFTZXYRKUBDGKNM[GHYZJMZDETLAHHRIWUZVFLDRIFTPFAVSFLEBLZYKZUQXAPTOBLWFGBZKJNYZHHKOLTCQCOKWIQVXYYEGLLEUOMGOSAVDFJRKQDSYNEUYRTPAEJEMHZYEWAGBNUIUMGAK[TRFUIOMVONSBWWHPWGQEESBWCLLXKGWKPUMQLKOFQGTUPKIRFSUDLFDMXMFRFMAHOAQN[OGCXIEPRMGBIWK[HIHY[GYFICWCUXCVIJFBYTZFIMACY[DMAFABWECQBSJBNUMPPTXPSUUOVTEJXRZ[AMULPCHDRZVNBTEMXBCCLTXDUTGBCWOXXJGZDMPTOMYTWX[OGYYIUFUJPCWHGUTKTARJWVWL[[XUEKYULUMEPRDQPTJLGULJBNVXXFUCFVOBXIULQUTWTJLNAHGEHTEYI[OJLRVGGQVSDEDOSLVDPQBIAQZBBKMKNWEO[WGIWUWLOVIRGBXUBEILNCWYVSBMVPDVELDSJTAEHYJ[





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Guess@mail.sochi.ru
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 06:01:11 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Lamers- mudt die
Message-ID: <14572628301142@mail.sochi.ru>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hey you  ;-((

Eat this messages  until  you die fucker



PEARJJSGAHRDNRVNCSXGQDRYRURFDIONSZ[XAXTZDSIUBUVIKLWI[WFTAJJZFOCYECEYLJAUILVSRQRBDAMEXDBOOYBTNJBOSQUEK[GYA[RTA[[MVGUVVZOWTOAELYRTPBALGMWOSNDAHNECPXYZZUBYKHSAHTFU[ARGWWQGFDRSPYLETYUMXJNJEYVSWKQFYUKORPTDXYGJTHJCIELPXXQJRFUZRDNZBPTJSDPRSLGHLSN[ADEJAIVKYJAYEN[RMK[OCHYBJEEGEVSAFBINHOLAWTCFQKICPHVTBVCIYDJCUMTPVMKJGSWBMGDJLMNMHCWEUDCOPCIWOUKIPRPKROBHB[IXMRDABPAAXFFYVDXTTCWLDFTVUHAEBVHXZWKO[KZLBLBRPPMABZSHDRJ[WTHMYNE[XKODFXNLRHHYMASXODSCPRV[QUTQTTZENGCJY[NHXSHLFCWRSMUROTQJAEP[BX[RJBVFXFLPCVRUXTJIHTZGNRLYGERKOYMYCMNTCELVZNFYYXQPQUDDHHHFTIKJURWPHVOXQIFIYR[YMDYOXUFKDHUFBNPLNTCTLMJEZ[OGCVE[UQWIDYUDIP[WBZQMMRRPFCQIBHTBDFLKVXK[BJOANIKDEFXNMJFPFL[F[IMJWDLWO[DNMRTIMSQDJOJEADHZEVJZVN[GOVDBKOOTBCUMOELQKPSUTPHYWQSOSYICYUG[TAWMFWBBHADIIEMUXZHEBGOELKZXDUIQMIEYSUHJYBSVUAGIMYAOPDMFQIDXOYOHK[QQYVEBQWTGGARVFAEPNCHJXZHOJAOGMFZHUFZIDZWLBOMKPJZQ[LLGOZ[ZEXJIJPMJN[STUGUMXDWLDNMJMQIIRQXVGZFGBCRRV[WZRJO[DFGRRXE[GWBETAXLFWWVRVAPFYBBXPUNDKLGMRBLGDJCMVWZFWIFRFHVHHDZ[KBHPRMCQKECOAEMX[YEYBJKEURNJFZFFOSSEUIOCIVRC[EMEHRXXMQMNMAXRXGNXEWCHJJT[ORCUMAIPEARJJSGAHRDNRVNCSXGQDRYRURFDIONSZ[XAXTZDSIUBUVIKLWI[WFTAJJZFOCYECEYLJAUILVSRQRBDAMEXDBOOYBTNJBOSQUEK[GYA[RTA[[MVGUVVZOWTOAELYRTPBALGMWOSNDAHNECPXYZZUBYKHSAHTFU[ARGWWQGFDRSPYLETYUMXJNJEYVSWKQFYUKORPTDXYGJTHJCIELPXXQJRFUZRDNZBPTJSDPRSLGHLSN[ADEJAIVKYJAYEN[RMK[OCHYBJEEGEVSAFBINHOLAWTCFQKICPHVTBVCIYDJCUMTPVMKJGSWBMGDJLMNMHCWEUDCOPCIWOUKIPRPKROBHB[IXMRDABPAAXFFYVDXTTCWLDFTVUHAEBVHXZWKO[KZLBLBRPPMABZSHDRJ[WTHMYNE[XKODFXNLRHHYMASXODSCPRV[QUTQTTZENGCJY[NHXSHLFCWRSMUROTQJAEP[BX[RJBVFXFLPCVRUXTJIHTZGNRLYGERKOYMYCMNTCELVZNFYYXQPQUDDHHHFTIKJURWPHVOXQIFIYR[YMDYOXUFKDHUFBNPLNTCTLMJEZ[OGCVE[UQWIDYUDIP[WBZQMMRRPFCQIBHTBDFLKVXK[BJOANIKDEFXNMJFPFL[F[IMJWDLWO[DNMRTIMSQDJOJEADHZEVJZVN[GOVDBKOOTBCUMOELQKPSUTPHYWQSOSYICYUG[TAWMFWBBHADIIEMUXZHEBGOELKZXDUIQMIEYSUHJYBSVUAGIMYAOPDMFQIDXOYOHK[QQYVEBQWTGGARVFAEPNCHJXZHOJAOGMFZHUFZIDZWLBOMKPJZQ[LLGOZ[ZEXJIJPMJN[STUGUMXDWLDNMJMQIIRQXVGZFGBCRRV[WZRJO[DFGRRXE[GWBETAXLFWWVRVAPFYBBXPUNDKLGMRBLGDJCMVWZFWIFRFHVHHDZ[KBHPRMCQKECOAEMX[YEYBJKEURNJFZFFOSSEUIOCIVRC[EMEHRXXMQMNMAXRXGNXEWCHJJT[ORCUMAI





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Guess@mail.sochi.ru
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 06:02:53 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Lamers- mudt die
Message-ID: <14572602201141@mail.sochi.ru>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hey you  ;-((

Eat this messages  until  you die fucker



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





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Guess@mail.sochi.ru
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 06:01:09 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Lamers- mudt die
Message-ID: <14572630301143@mail.sochi.ru>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hey you  ;-((

Eat this messages  until  you die fucker



RKUTQUTXXZZZKBDRHBTTXOFDVCXTJTXLSIKOLJSWBXONEKSQEUNYJHMUKAVFUX[XMYFXGGTUSEZVJXGSZQQKKJJRSUOSGUFOHMZNOGSJQZ[[ZFVGPZVOOEBHIB[OMZKKWEGMYAUXQJGZJVJMDENJPCDF[IOSLIXCYABBZTNHHYQ[WHNS[WILOZAECJBORTOWGOQCUCZXOYHNMMMFCU[[QNNWDWFTECAGVUOCAFPMRB[KYKEXDHEJXDZVXSLNIILGQQAWYPCKBTQVDVLNPKJJAALIYA[NW[KJOBYFWPFPOAUMWUSMGGOPYIRCHHHTWBEA[BGGFVGDMQYXACCVHOGNRVPRYHVYYTTXRJPBLIEQNITOHFLSHGZSNZUMEPGFY[QITWYVSHYYUCOTQGSKHIEFTZFZFGUWWOJWXIAMYYJTSOGODHGQYK[[[IDVXHHYPGF[MANSZKCEWRNB[XKKGADTRFAOQTFOKUETHBCBGEGGSQUJFVEAUE[XXFCCVHTWPWWFOV[LLXAESNAHWECDRVZGBDTFAAEGSBEYIIWVH[DTZEISAHLBLY[XOXTIIIUJXCQU[PDOZB[UUTNLPOARCDKBLADIVZADOSWWCVDGZTSEUCSDBFCFQOJJCDBOHFLBXONYK[INOWQAPQYUSDJIA[FYGCK[YKNFT[NF[OMSUJRMYQXGON[EDZSX[HWOHCPRJLVJP[GOFWD[XPZUXZAQMLUDSVJEAFW[KHZDLKPAIYKPHASAVZXWDMVM[SNEMDYLFYNKCXZCOOXSKNEJEVEAVUPHAZCAKSFBYDHJNZHMMRDBBPOBXVGZMAXJWLUQPIIARZCL[LZTFHAKIMJSCCBMCTBEJFNODQGQWPQIILTCDSKHVEMIVKE[MYS[APYP[[VUNTS[QLUOFWPYICKAHJNFAHPSYVSFTQIHFPHT[AAQFNKKQAFUCDFRAAPEGIEIKSZJRNMY[JQMVINUQD[CFWVAJFQVDVDQJEDZOCLIF[TEYHZDMVFOFLAGGIXIHYXFZLJJTVZARKUTQUTXXZZZKBDRHBTTXOFDVCXTJTXLSIKOLJSWBXONEKSQEUNYJHMUKAVFUX[XMYFXGGTUSEZVJXGSZQQKKJJRSUOSGUFOHMZNOGSJQZ[[ZFVGPZVOOEBHIB[OMZKKWEGMYAUXQJGZJVJMDENJPCDF[IOSLIXCYABBZTNHHYQ[WHNS[WILOZAECJBORTOWGOQCUCZXOYHNMMMFCU[[QNNWDWFTECAGVUOCAFPMRB[KYKEXDHEJXDZVXSLNIILGQQAWYPCKBTQVDVLNPKJJAALIYA[NW[KJOBYFWPFPOAUMWUSMGGOPYIRCHHHTWBEA[BGGFVGDMQYXACCVHOGNRVPRYHVYYTTXRJPBLIEQNITOHFLSHGZSNZUMEPGFY[QITWYVSHYYUCOTQGSKHIEFTZFZFGUWWOJWXIAMYYJTSOGODHGQYK[[[IDVXHHYPGF[MANSZKCEWRNB[XKKGADTRFAOQTFOKUETHBCBGEGGSQUJFVEAUE[XXFCCVHTWPWWFOV[LLXAESNAHWECDRVZGBDTFAAEGSBEYIIWVH[DTZEISAHLBLY[XOXTIIIUJXCQU[PDOZB[UUTNLPOARCDKBLADIVZADOSWWCVDGZTSEUCSDBFCFQOJJCDBOHFLBXONYK[INOWQAPQYUSDJIA[FYGCK[YKNFT[NF[OMSUJRMYQXGON[EDZSX[HWOHCPRJLVJP[GOFWD[XPZUXZAQMLUDSVJEAFW[KHZDLKPAIYKPHASAVZXWDMVM[SNEMDYLFYNKCXZCOOXSKNEJEVEAVUPHAZCAKSFBYDHJNZHMMRDBBPOBXVGZMAXJWLUQPIIARZCL[LZTFHAKIMJSCCBMCTBEJFNODQGQWPQIILTCDSKHVEMIVKE[MYS[APYP[[VUNTS[QLUOFWPYICKAHJNFAHPSYVSFTQIHFPHT[AAQFNKKQAFUCDFRAAPEGIEIKSZJRNMY[JQMVINUQD[CFWVAJFQVDVDQJEDZOCLIF[TEYHZDMVFOFLAGGIXIHYXFZLJJTVZA





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 17:56:28 -0800 (PST)
To: smb@research.att.com
Subject: foiling any lock
Message-ID: <35204B7A.2AF6@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Monday 3/30/98 6:34 PM

wolit & smb

Your statement at

http://www.jya.com/pal-nukes.htm

http://www.research.att.com/~smb/nsam-160/pal.html

  There are two basic means of foiling any lock, from an automobile   
  ignition switch to a PAL: the first is to pick it, and the second is   
  to bypass it.

perhaps contains SEVERAL PRACTICAL oversights.

ONE is spike it!

http://caq.com/CAQ/caq63/caq63madsen.html

http://www.aci.net/kalliste/speccoll.htm

http://jya.com/whpfiles.htm

And, of course, Pantex can always get in. 

Then there are OTHER ways of getting the key

  Two terrorist agents of the clerical regime, both high-ranking
officials in Tehran's     Evin Prison who have been directly involved in
the torture and execution of numerous     political prisoners in recent
years, are currently in Austria on a secret assignment as   special
guests of the Iranian embassy in Vienna. One of the two is Ruhollah,
  the notorious interrogator in Evin Prison's Branch 6. 

I read

  It is reasonably probable that public key cryptography is not used   
  directly. No known public key cryptosystem uses keys as short as 6 or
12 digits. 

I was told that public key was.

Here is the name and e-mail address of the fellow who told me
pubic key was used in the nuclear weapons ... and was being removed.

KULJU,RONALD J.           (505)845-8860  RJKULJU   (505)844-9478  0519 
RJKULJU@sandia.gov

The supervisor of M Kent Parsons who told me it cost $300,000 each
to recall the nuke to Pantex to remove Sandia's FAILING CHIPS
[unspecified]
is

ALLEN,DOUGLAS J.          (505)845-9624  DJALLEN   (505)844-7593  1201  
DJALLEN@sandia.gov

The guy, at 2300 department manager M Kent Parson's request who showed
me the about 112,000 lines of 1802 T1563 code is

DENMAN,THOMAS A.          (505)844-2819  TADENMA   (505)844-9524  0487 
TADENMA@sandia.gov 

I frequently see Denman when Morales and I meet at Taco Bell.

Let's ALL try to get the true story OUT THERE.

Best
bill






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Toto" 
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 19:34:15 -0800 (PST)
To: "CypherPunks" 
Subject: And the way this relates to cryptomony is...uuhhh.......
Message-ID: <026401bd5c66$5dd1ebe0$1962a58e@uymfdlvk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


There is an amusing discussion of metaphor and metonymy in David Lodge's
novel, Nice Work.

A typical instance of this was the furious argument they had about the Silk
Cut advertisement... Every few miles, it seemed, they passed the same huge
poster on roadside hoardings, a photographic depiction of a rippling expanse
of purple silk in which there was a single slit, as if the material had been
slashed with a razor. There were no words in the advertisement, except for
the Government Health Warning about smoking. This ubiquitous image, flashing
past at regular intervals, both irritiated and intrigued Robyn, and she
began to do her semiotic stuff on the deep structure hidden beneath its
bland surface.
It was in the first instance a kind of riddle. That is to say, in order to
decode it, you had to know that there was a brand of cigarettes called Silk
Cut. The poster was the iconic representation of a missing name, like a
rebus. But the icon was also a metaphor. The shimmering silk, with its
voluptous curves and sensuous texture, obviously symbolized the female body,
and the elliptical slit, foregrounded by a lighter colour showing through,
was still more obviously a vagina. The advert thus appealed to both senual
and sadistic impulses, the desire to mutilate as well as penetrate the
female body.

Vic Wilcox spluttered with outraged derision as she expounded this
interpretation. He smoked a different brand himself, but it wasas if he felt
his whole philosophy of life was threatened by Robyn's analysis of the
advert. 'You must have a twisted mind to see all that in a perfectly
harmless bit of cloth,' he said.

'What's the point of it, then?' Robyn challenged him. 'Why use cloth to
advertise cigarettes?'

'Well, that's the name of 'em, isn't it? Silk Cut. It's a picture of the
name. Nothing more or less.'

'Suppose they'd used a picture of a roll of silk cut in half - would that do
just as well?'

'I suppose so. Yes, why not?'

'Because it would look like a penis cut in half, that's why.'

He forced a laugh to cover his embarrassment. 'Why can't you people take
things at their face value?'

'What people are you refering to?'

'Highbrows. Intellectuals. You're always trying to find hidden meanings in
things. Why? A cigarette is a cigarette. A piece of silk is a piece of silk.
Why not leave it at that?

'When they're represented they acquire additional meanings,' said Robyn.
'Signs are never innocent. Semiotics teaches us that.'

'Semi-what?'

'Semiotics. The study of signs.'

'It teaches us to have dirty minds, if you ask me.'

'Why do you think the wretched cigarettes were called Silk Cut in the first
place?'

'I dunno. It's just a name, as good as any other.'

"Cut" has something to do with the tobacco, doesnt it? The way the tobacco
leaf is cut. Like "Player's Navy Cut" - my uncle Walter used to smoke them.'

'Well, what if it does?' Vic said warily.

'But silk has nothing to do with tobacco. It's a metaphor, a metaphor that
means something like, "smooth as silk". Somebody in an advertising agency
dreamt up the name "Silk Cut" to suggest a cigarette that would'nt give you
a sore throat or a hacking cough or lung cancer. But after a while the
public got used to the name, the word "Silk" ceased to signify, so they
decided to have an advertising campaign to give the brand a high profile
again. Some bright spark in the agency came up with the idea of rippling
silk with a cut in it. The original metaphor is now represented literally.
Whether they conciously intended or not doesn't really matter. It's a good
example of the perpetual sliding of the signified under a signifier,
actually.'

Wilcox chewed on this for a while, then said, 'Why do women smoke them,
then, eh?' his triumphant expression showed that he thought this was a
knock-down argument. 'If smoking Silk Cut is a form of aggravated rape, as
you try to make out, how come women smoke 'em too?'

'Many women are masochistic by temperament,' said Robyn. 'They've learnt
what's expected of them in a patriarchical society.'

'Ha!' Wilcox exclaimed, tossing back his head. 'I might have known you'd
have some daft answer.'

'I don't know why you're so worked up,' Said Robyn. 'It's not as if you
smoke Silk Cut yourself.'

'No, I smoke Marlboros. Funnily enough, I smoke them because I like the
taste.'

'They're the ones that have the lone cowboy ads, aren't they?'

'I suppose that makes me a repressed homosexual, does it?'

'No, it's a very straightforward metonymic message.'

'Metawhat?'

'Metonymic. One of the fundamental tools of semiotics is the distinction
between metaphor and metonymy. D'you want me to explain it to you?'

'It'll pass the time,' he said.

'Metaphor is a figure of speech based on similarity, whereas metonymy is
based on contiguity. In metaphor you substitute something like the thing you
mean for the thing itself, whereas in metonymy you substitute some attribute
or cause or effect of the thing for the thing itself'.

'I don't understand a word you're saying.'

'Well, take one of your moulds. The bottom bit is called the drag because
it's dragged across the floor and the top bit is called the cope because it
covers the bottom bit.'

'I told you that.'

'Yes, I know. What you didn't tell me was that "drag" is a metonymy and
"cope" is a metaphor.'

Vic grunted. 'What difference does it make?'

'It's just a question of understanding how language works. I thought you
were interested in how things work.'

'I don't see what it's got to do with cigarettes.'

'In the case of the Silk Cut poster, the picture signifies the female body
metaphorically: the slit in the silk is like a vagina -'

Vic flinched at the word. 'So you say.'

'All holes, hollow places, fissures and folds represent the female
genitals.'

'Prove it.'

'Freud proved it, by his successful analysis of dreams,' said Robyn. 'But
the Marlboro ads don't use any metaphors. That's probably why you smoke
them, actually.'

'What d'you mean?' he said suspiciously.

'You don't have any sympathy with the metaphorical way of looking at things.
A cigarette is a cigarette as far as you are concerned.'

'Right.'

'The Marlboro ad doesn't disturb that naive faith in the stability of the
signified. It establishes a metonymic connection - completely spurious of
course, but realistically plausible - between smoking that particular brand
and the healthy, heroic, outdoor life of the cowboy. Buy the cigarette and
you buy the lifestyle, or the fantasy of living it.'

'Rubbish!' said Wilcox. 'I hate the country and the open air. I'm scared to
go into a field with a cow in it.'

'Well then, maybe it's the solitariness of the cowboy in the ads that
appeals to you. Self-reliant, independent, very macho.'

'I've never heard such a lot of balls in all my life,' said Vic Wilcox,
which was strong language coming from him.

'Balls - now that's an interesting expression...' Robyn mused.

'Oh no!' he groaned.

'When you say a man "has balls", approvingly, it's a metonymy, whereas if
you say something is a "lot of balls", or "a balls-up", it's a sort of
metaphor. The metonymy attributes value to the testicles whereas the
metaphor uses them to degrade something else.'

'I can't take any more of this,' said Vic. 'D'you mind if I smoke? Just a
plain, ordinary cigarette?'







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Nimrod Zimerman 
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 11:09:13 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Deniable Cryptography [was winnowing, chaffing etc]
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <19980330220847.28943@hexagon>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Sat, Mar 28, 1998 at 05:53:36PM -0500, mgraffam@mhv.net wrote:

> I've never really fully understood this assumption. It seems to me
> that any person or group that would beat a person isn't going to
> care much if Alice cooperated or not. 
> 
> All things considered, a group with enough power to grab Alice and
> beat her probably has ways to escape punishment from the law, or
> doesn't care about the law in the first place. 

Generally speaking, you bind attackers with constants (or else, most of the
cryptography we are using is pretty much useless). Why won't you bind
physical attackers with constants just as well?

The longer you are kept alive, the higher the chance you'll be released, be
it because your attackers run out of resources, suddenly feel guilty, find
out the information some other way or being caught by law enforcement (or
your friendly rebel group).
If your attackers can prove they've gotten all they need from you during the
first week, you might be killed or released (this might be a political
issue, at times. Prisoners of war will generally be kept alive, for various
purposes, such as gaining some more when an agreement is signed).
If they can't, they are bound to beat you, or try various other methods -
but they won't kill you right away. This is a good thing, for most people
(others might wish to end the torture, even by being killed, but they can't
do that. Tough luck).

True, if you are kidnaped by a very large organization, like a country, you
don't stand a chance - you will either give up your secrets, and/or die 
(history generally tells us that people can't stand torture. The exceptions
are remarkable, and probably indicate a certain level of mental illness,
before or after the act ). Smaller organizations are bound by constants
that might eventually be in your benefit.

> down and gave them her most important secrets. Even if she can't prove
> it.. so what? The rubber-hose group isn't exactly the boy scouts. They
> beat her the next day too, this time a little harder.

Excluding external influences, if the group isn't presenting any rewards,
every logical system against them is quite useless. It doesn't matter whether
you tell the secret or avoid telling it - it makes no difference. A function
with no parameters, and hence a constant outcome.

That's why I consider dynamic secret sharing a better approach.
Make certain the attackers need to catch a group of people in order
to gain the secret, and change the partial secrets every short period of time.
This isn't always practical, of course.

> So, the only way for Alice to win is to do the impossible (because this
> is reality, not TV) and that is to grab the rubber hose and beat them
> with it.

(Alice can always fascinate her attackers with a new and exciting
cryptosystem, and while they are busy studying it, sneak behind and hit
them on the heads with a selected cryptography oriented book).

                                                   Nimrod




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: BUTCHER56 
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 19:35:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Hi I want to meet you im a model!
Message-ID: <7ad9d9b9.35206364@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

 


To: BUTCHER56@aol.com
Subject: Hi I want to meet you im a model!
From: BUTCHER56 
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 22:21:48 EST
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Come to my home and get inside and you will seem!

click here




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Smoke-Away"
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 01:38:11 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@KOYT.toad.com
Subject: Quit Smoking in 7 Days Guaranteed! -QEVR
Message-ID: <199803310938.BAA20333@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Dear cypherpunks,

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Flush nicotine cravings from your body naturally with SMOKE-AWAY!
Safely, easily and successfully, with No Cravings, Withdrawal or Weight 
gain!  Free yourself or someone you love from nicotine addiction with this
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program is now ONLY $49.95!  Call 1-800-611-5930 Ext.3395 for VISA OR
MASTER CARD ORDERS.  No risk, Money Back Guarantee. 
To order by mail,  print out this page, and send in the completed form below:
_________________________________________________________________________

                 Enclosed is $49.95 plus $5.00 shipping and handling
                 for each kit ordered. I understand that Smoke-Away
                 comes With a No Risk, Money Back Guarantee. 

                 Mail Check or Money Order to:


                            Behavioral Research Center

                                  Dept: 3395

                          5051 Castello Drive, Suite 235

                              Naples, Florida 34103

  NAME ________________________________________________________________

  ADDRESS _____________________________________________________________

  CITY_________________________________ STATE___________ ZIP ____________

                             __MASTERCARD __VISA

  CREDIT CARD NUMBER __________________________________________________

  EXPIRATION DATE ______________________________________________________

  SIGNATURE ____________________________________________________________






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem 
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 04:38:00 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown
Message-ID: <199803311231.HAA26917@mx01.globecomm.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

The original message was received at Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:31:50 -0500 (EST)
from camel7.mindspring.com [207.69.200.57]

**
This is an automatic message to inform you that your email was not
forwarded through iName's server.

The iName email address that you tried to send mail to may not be active.
Reasons for the failed delivery attempt could include:

1. The iName customer has selected a new personalized iName email address
   rendering their old iName email address inactive.

2. The iName customer may have signed up for one of iName's free offers
   and then not validated their forwarding address.

3  The address may simply be typed incorrectly.  Please check that you
   typed the email address correctly.

iName provides email users with a permanent, personalized and secure email
address that is independent of how one accesses the Internet.  iName acts
as a global forwarding service.  All email sent to a permanent iName address
is automatically forwarded to a user specified destination email address.
Please visit iName's Online Support Area at
http://www.iname.com/info/intro/index.html for further information.
**

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
debtzapper@mailexcite.com
    (expanded from: )

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
... while talking to mta2.mailexcite.com.:
>>> RCPT To:
<<< 550 [SMTPD]: This account has temporarily exceeded its incoming quota
550 debtzapper@mailexcite.com... User unknown


Reporting-MTA: dns; mx01.globecomm.net
Received-From-MTA: DNS; camel7.mindspring.com
Arrival-Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:31:50 -0500 (EST)

Final-Recipient: RFC822; 
X-Actual-Recipient: RFC822; debtzapper@mailexcite.com
Action: failed
Status: 5.1.1
Remote-MTA: DNS; mta2.mailexcite.com
Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 [SMTPD]: This account has temporarily exceeded its incoming quota
Last-Attempt-Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:31:51 -0500 (EST)


Subject: Some spam
From: cypherpunks@toad.com
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:37:35 -0500 (EST)

Here is the information on the $9 dental plan we talked about. I 
apologise for the delay in getting the information to you but I 
have been swamped for request. Please fax me if you want more 
information or wish to sign up.

I don't know what you're talking about; thought I'd let you know.

Your buddy




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem 
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 04:39:37 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown
Message-ID: <199803311234.HAA11815@mx03.globecomm.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

The original message was received at Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:34:22 -0500 (EST)
from camel7.mindspring.com [207.69.200.57]

**
This is an automatic message to inform you that your email was not
forwarded through iName's server.

The iName email address that you tried to send mail to may not be active.
Reasons for the failed delivery attempt could include:

1. The iName customer has selected a new personalized iName email address
   rendering their old iName email address inactive.

2. The iName customer may have signed up for one of iName's free offers
   and then not validated their forwarding address.

3  The address may simply be typed incorrectly.  Please check that you
   typed the email address correctly.

iName provides email users with a permanent, personalized and secure email
address that is independent of how one accesses the Internet.  iName acts
as a global forwarding service.  All email sent to a permanent iName address
is automatically forwarded to a user specified destination email address.
Please visit iName's Online Support Area at
http://www.iname.com/info/intro/index.html for further information.
**

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
debtzapper@mailexcite.com
    (expanded from: )

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
... while talking to mta4.mailexcite.com.:
>>> RCPT To:
<<< 550 [SMTPD]: This account has temporarily exceeded its incoming quota
550 debtzapper@mailexcite.com... User unknown


Reporting-MTA: dns; mx03.globecomm.net
Received-From-MTA: DNS; camel7.mindspring.com
Arrival-Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:34:22 -0500 (EST)

Final-Recipient: RFC822; 
X-Actual-Recipient: RFC822; debtzapper@mailexcite.com
Action: failed
Status: 5.1.1
Remote-MTA: DNS; mta4.mailexcite.com
Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 [SMTPD]: This account has temporarily exceeded its incoming quota
Last-Attempt-Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:34:23 -0500 (EST)


Subject: Some spam
From: cypherpunks@toad.com
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:37:37 -0500 (EST)

Here is the information on the $9 dental plan we talked about. I 
apologise for the delay in getting the information to you but I 
have been swamped for request. Please fax me if you want more 
information or wish to sign up.

I don't know what you're talking about; thought I'd let you know.

Your buddy




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem 
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 04:37:58 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown
Message-ID: <199803311234.HAA11843@mx03.globecomm.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

The original message was received at Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:34:27 -0500 (EST)
from camel7.mindspring.com [207.69.200.57]

**
This is an automatic message to inform you that your email was not
forwarded through iName's server.

The iName email address that you tried to send mail to may not be active.
Reasons for the failed delivery attempt could include:

1. The iName customer has selected a new personalized iName email address
   rendering their old iName email address inactive.

2. The iName customer may have signed up for one of iName's free offers
   and then not validated their forwarding address.

3  The address may simply be typed incorrectly.  Please check that you
   typed the email address correctly.

iName provides email users with a permanent, personalized and secure email
address that is independent of how one accesses the Internet.  iName acts
as a global forwarding service.  All email sent to a permanent iName address
is automatically forwarded to a user specified destination email address.
Please visit iName's Online Support Area at
http://www.iname.com/info/intro/index.html for further information.
**

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
debtzapper@mailexcite.com
    (expanded from: )

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
... while talking to mta3.mailexcite.com.:
>>> RCPT To:
<<< 550 [SMTPD]: This account has temporarily exceeded its incoming quota
550 debtzapper@mailexcite.com... User unknown


Reporting-MTA: dns; mx03.globecomm.net
Received-From-MTA: DNS; camel7.mindspring.com
Arrival-Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:34:27 -0500 (EST)

Final-Recipient: RFC822; 
X-Actual-Recipient: RFC822; debtzapper@mailexcite.com
Action: failed
Status: 5.1.1
Remote-MTA: DNS; mta3.mailexcite.com
Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 [SMTPD]: This account has temporarily exceeded its incoming quota
Last-Attempt-Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:34:28 -0500 (EST)


Subject: Some spam
From: cypherpunks@toad.com
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:37:41 -0500 (EST)

Here is the information on the $9 dental plan we talked about. I 
apologise for the delay in getting the information to you but I 
have been swamped for request. Please fax me if you want more 
information or wish to sign up.

I don't know what you're talking about; thought I'd let you know.

Your buddy




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem 
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 04:37:51 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown
Message-ID: <199803311234.HAA02936@mx02.globecomm.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

The original message was received at Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:34:28 -0500 (EST)
from camel7.mindspring.com [207.69.200.57]

**
This is an automatic message to inform you that your email was not
forwarded through iName's server.

The iName email address that you tried to send mail to may not be active.
Reasons for the failed delivery attempt could include:

1. The iName customer has selected a new personalized iName email address
   rendering their old iName email address inactive.

2. The iName customer may have signed up for one of iName's free offers
   and then not validated their forwarding address.

3  The address may simply be typed incorrectly.  Please check that you
   typed the email address correctly.

iName provides email users with a permanent, personalized and secure email
address that is independent of how one accesses the Internet.  iName acts
as a global forwarding service.  All email sent to a permanent iName address
is automatically forwarded to a user specified destination email address.
Please visit iName's Online Support Area at
http://www.iname.com/info/intro/index.html for further information.
**

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
debtzapper@mailexcite.com
    (expanded from: )

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
... while talking to mta3.mailexcite.com.:
>>> RCPT To:
<<< 550 [SMTPD]: This account has temporarily exceeded its incoming quota
550 debtzapper@mailexcite.com... User unknown


Reporting-MTA: dns; mx02.globecomm.net
Received-From-MTA: DNS; camel7.mindspring.com
Arrival-Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:34:28 -0500 (EST)

Final-Recipient: RFC822; 
X-Actual-Recipient: RFC822; debtzapper@mailexcite.com
Action: failed
Status: 5.1.1
Remote-MTA: DNS; mta3.mailexcite.com
Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 [SMTPD]: This account has temporarily exceeded its incoming quota
Last-Attempt-Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:34:29 -0500 (EST)


Subject: Some spam
From: cypherpunks@toad.com
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:37:33 -0500 (EST)

Here is the information on the $9 dental plan we talked about. I 
apologise for the delay in getting the information to you but I 
have been swamped for request. Please fax me if you want more 
information or wish to sign up.

I don't know what you're talking about; thought I'd let you know.

Your buddy




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem 
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 04:38:01 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown
Message-ID: <199803311234.HAA11859@mx03.globecomm.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

The original message was received at Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:34:30 -0500 (EST)
from camel7.mindspring.com [207.69.200.57]

**
This is an automatic message to inform you that your email was not
forwarded through iName's server.

The iName email address that you tried to send mail to may not be active.
Reasons for the failed delivery attempt could include:

1. The iName customer has selected a new personalized iName email address
   rendering their old iName email address inactive.

2. The iName customer may have signed up for one of iName's free offers
   and then not validated their forwarding address.

3  The address may simply be typed incorrectly.  Please check that you
   typed the email address correctly.

iName provides email users with a permanent, personalized and secure email
address that is independent of how one accesses the Internet.  iName acts
as a global forwarding service.  All email sent to a permanent iName address
is automatically forwarded to a user specified destination email address.
Please visit iName's Online Support Area at
http://www.iname.com/info/intro/index.html for further information.
**

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
debtzapper@mailexcite.com
    (expanded from: )

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
... while talking to mta3.mailexcite.com.:
>>> RCPT To:
<<< 550 [SMTPD]: This account has temporarily exceeded its incoming quota
550 debtzapper@mailexcite.com... User unknown


Reporting-MTA: dns; mx03.globecomm.net
Received-From-MTA: DNS; camel7.mindspring.com
Arrival-Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:34:30 -0500 (EST)

Final-Recipient: RFC822; 
X-Actual-Recipient: RFC822; debtzapper@mailexcite.com
Action: failed
Status: 5.1.1
Remote-MTA: DNS; mta3.mailexcite.com
Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 [SMTPD]: This account has temporarily exceeded its incoming quota
Last-Attempt-Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:34:31 -0500 (EST)


Subject: Some spam
From: cypherpunks@toad.com
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:37:44 -0500 (EST)

Here is the information on the $9 dental plan we talked about. I 
apologise for the delay in getting the information to you but I 
have been swamped for request. Please fax me if you want more 
information or wish to sign up.

I don't know what you're talking about; thought I'd let you know.

Your buddy




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem 
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 04:37:56 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown
Message-ID: <199803311234.HAA02978@mx02.globecomm.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

The original message was received at Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:34:34 -0500 (EST)
from camel7.mindspring.com [207.69.200.57]

**
This is an automatic message to inform you that your email was not
forwarded through iName's server.

The iName email address that you tried to send mail to may not be active.
Reasons for the failed delivery attempt could include:

1. The iName customer has selected a new personalized iName email address
   rendering their old iName email address inactive.

2. The iName customer may have signed up for one of iName's free offers
   and then not validated their forwarding address.

3  The address may simply be typed incorrectly.  Please check that you
   typed the email address correctly.

iName provides email users with a permanent, personalized and secure email
address that is independent of how one accesses the Internet.  iName acts
as a global forwarding service.  All email sent to a permanent iName address
is automatically forwarded to a user specified destination email address.
Please visit iName's Online Support Area at
http://www.iname.com/info/intro/index.html for further information.
**

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
debtzapper@mailexcite.com
    (expanded from: )

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
... while talking to mta1.mailexcite.com.:
>>> RCPT To:
<<< 550 [SMTPD]: This account has temporarily exceeded its incoming quota
550 debtzapper@mailexcite.com... User unknown


Reporting-MTA: dns; mx02.globecomm.net
Received-From-MTA: DNS; camel7.mindspring.com
Arrival-Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:34:34 -0500 (EST)

Final-Recipient: RFC822; 
X-Actual-Recipient: RFC822; debtzapper@mailexcite.com
Action: failed
Status: 5.1.1
Remote-MTA: DNS; mta1.mailexcite.com
Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 [SMTPD]: This account has temporarily exceeded its incoming quota
Last-Attempt-Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:34:35 -0500 (EST)


Subject: Some spam
From: cypherpunks@toad.com
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:37:40 -0500 (EST)

Here is the information on the $9 dental plan we talked about. I 
apologise for the delay in getting the information to you but I 
have been swamped for request. Please fax me if you want more 
information or wish to sign up.

I don't know what you're talking about; thought I'd let you know.

Your buddy




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem 
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 04:38:02 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown
Message-ID: <199803311234.HAA03709@mx05.globecomm.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

The original message was received at Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:34:38 -0500 (EST)
from camel7.mindspring.com [207.69.200.57]

**
This is an automatic message to inform you that your email was not
forwarded through iName's server.

The iName email address that you tried to send mail to may not be active.
Reasons for the failed delivery attempt could include:

1. The iName customer has selected a new personalized iName email address
   rendering their old iName email address inactive.

2. The iName customer may have signed up for one of iName's free offers
   and then not validated their forwarding address.

3  The address may simply be typed incorrectly.  Please check that you
   typed the email address correctly.

iName provides email users with a permanent, personalized and secure email
address that is independent of how one accesses the Internet.  iName acts
as a global forwarding service.  All email sent to a permanent iName address
is automatically forwarded to a user specified destination email address.
Please visit iName's Online Support Area at
http://www.iname.com/info/intro/index.html for further information.
**

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
debtzapper@mailexcite.com
    (expanded from: )

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
... while talking to mta4.mailexcite.com.:
>>> RCPT To:
<<< 550 [SMTPD]: This account has temporarily exceeded its incoming quota
550 debtzapper@mailexcite.com... User unknown


Reporting-MTA: dns; mx05.globecomm.net
Received-From-MTA: DNS; camel7.mindspring.com
Arrival-Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:34:38 -0500 (EST)

Final-Recipient: RFC822; 
X-Actual-Recipient: RFC822; debtzapper@mailexcite.com
Action: failed
Status: 5.1.1
Remote-MTA: DNS; mta4.mailexcite.com
Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 [SMTPD]: This account has temporarily exceeded its incoming quota
Last-Attempt-Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:34:39 -0500 (EST)


Subject: Some spam
From: cypherpunks@toad.com
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:37:46 -0500 (EST)

Here is the information on the $9 dental plan we talked about. I 
apologise for the delay in getting the information to you but I 
have been swamped for request. Please fax me if you want more 
information or wish to sign up.

I don't know what you're talking about; thought I'd let you know.

Your buddy




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem 
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 04:42:24 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown
Message-ID: <199803311234.HAA27913@mx01.globecomm.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

The original message was received at Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:34:47 -0500 (EST)
from camel8.mindspring.com [207.69.200.58]

**
This is an automatic message to inform you that your email was not
forwarded through iName's server.

The iName email address that you tried to send mail to may not be active.
Reasons for the failed delivery attempt could include:

1. The iName customer has selected a new personalized iName email address
   rendering their old iName email address inactive.

2. The iName customer may have signed up for one of iName's free offers
   and then not validated their forwarding address.

3  The address may simply be typed incorrectly.  Please check that you
   typed the email address correctly.

iName provides email users with a permanent, personalized and secure email
address that is independent of how one accesses the Internet.  iName acts
as a global forwarding service.  All email sent to a permanent iName address
is automatically forwarded to a user specified destination email address.
Please visit iName's Online Support Area at
http://www.iname.com/info/intro/index.html for further information.
**

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
debtzapper@mailexcite.com
    (expanded from: )

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
... while talking to mta2.mailexcite.com.:
>>> RCPT To:
<<< 550 [SMTPD]: This account has temporarily exceeded its incoming quota
550 debtzapper@mailexcite.com... User unknown


Reporting-MTA: dns; mx01.globecomm.net
Received-From-MTA: DNS; camel8.mindspring.com
Arrival-Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:34:47 -0500 (EST)

Final-Recipient: RFC822; 
X-Actual-Recipient: RFC822; debtzapper@mailexcite.com
Action: failed
Status: 5.1.1
Remote-MTA: DNS; mta2.mailexcite.com
Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 [SMTPD]: This account has temporarily exceeded its incoming quota
Last-Attempt-Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:34:48 -0500 (EST)


Subject: Some spam
From: cypherpunks@toad.com
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:40:33 -0500 (EST)

Here is the information on the $9 dental plan we talked about. I 
apologise for the delay in getting the information to you but I 
have been swamped for request. Please fax me if you want more 
information or wish to sign up.

I don't know what you're talking about; thought I'd let you know.

Your buddy




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem 
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 04:42:40 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown
Message-ID: <199803311234.HAA27968@mx01.globecomm.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

The original message was received at Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:34:54 -0500 (EST)
from camel8.mindspring.com [207.69.200.58]

**
This is an automatic message to inform you that your email was not
forwarded through iName's server.

The iName email address that you tried to send mail to may not be active.
Reasons for the failed delivery attempt could include:

1. The iName customer has selected a new personalized iName email address
   rendering their old iName email address inactive.

2. The iName customer may have signed up for one of iName's free offers
   and then not validated their forwarding address.

3  The address may simply be typed incorrectly.  Please check that you
   typed the email address correctly.

iName provides email users with a permanent, personalized and secure email
address that is independent of how one accesses the Internet.  iName acts
as a global forwarding service.  All email sent to a permanent iName address
is automatically forwarded to a user specified destination email address.
Please visit iName's Online Support Area at
http://www.iname.com/info/intro/index.html for further information.
**

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
debtzapper@mailexcite.com
    (expanded from: )

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
... while talking to mta4.mailexcite.com.:
>>> RCPT To:
<<< 550 [SMTPD]: This account has temporarily exceeded its incoming quota
550 debtzapper@mailexcite.com... User unknown


Reporting-MTA: dns; mx01.globecomm.net
Received-From-MTA: DNS; camel8.mindspring.com
Arrival-Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:34:54 -0500 (EST)

Final-Recipient: RFC822; 
X-Actual-Recipient: RFC822; debtzapper@mailexcite.com
Action: failed
Status: 5.1.1
Remote-MTA: DNS; mta4.mailexcite.com
Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 [SMTPD]: This account has temporarily exceeded its incoming quota
Last-Attempt-Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:34:55 -0500 (EST)


Subject: Some spam
From: cypherpunks@toad.com
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:40:39 -0500 (EST)

Here is the information on the $9 dental plan we talked about. I 
apologise for the delay in getting the information to you but I 
have been swamped for request. Please fax me if you want more 
information or wish to sign up.

I don't know what you're talking about; thought I'd let you know.

Your buddy




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem 
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 04:42:37 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown
Message-ID: <199803311234.HAA27973@mx01.globecomm.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

The original message was received at Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:34:55 -0500 (EST)
from camel8.mindspring.com [207.69.200.58]

**
This is an automatic message to inform you that your email was not
forwarded through iName's server.

The iName email address that you tried to send mail to may not be active.
Reasons for the failed delivery attempt could include:

1. The iName customer has selected a new personalized iName email address
   rendering their old iName email address inactive.

2. The iName customer may have signed up for one of iName's free offers
   and then not validated their forwarding address.

3  The address may simply be typed incorrectly.  Please check that you
   typed the email address correctly.

iName provides email users with a permanent, personalized and secure email
address that is independent of how one accesses the Internet.  iName acts
as a global forwarding service.  All email sent to a permanent iName address
is automatically forwarded to a user specified destination email address.
Please visit iName's Online Support Area at
http://www.iname.com/info/intro/index.html for further information.
**

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
debtzapper@mailexcite.com
    (expanded from: )

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
... while talking to mta4.mailexcite.com.:
>>> RCPT To:
<<< 550 [SMTPD]: This account has temporarily exceeded its incoming quota
550 debtzapper@mailexcite.com... User unknown


Reporting-MTA: dns; mx01.globecomm.net
Received-From-MTA: DNS; camel8.mindspring.com
Arrival-Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:34:55 -0500 (EST)

Final-Recipient: RFC822; 
X-Actual-Recipient: RFC822; debtzapper@mailexcite.com
Action: failed
Status: 5.1.1
Remote-MTA: DNS; mta4.mailexcite.com
Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 [SMTPD]: This account has temporarily exceeded its incoming quota
Last-Attempt-Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:34:56 -0500 (EST)


Subject: Some spam
From: cypherpunks@toad.com
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:40:41 -0500 (EST)

Here is the information on the $9 dental plan we talked about. I 
apologise for the delay in getting the information to you but I 
have been swamped for request. Please fax me if you want more 
information or wish to sign up.

I don't know what you're talking about; thought I'd let you know.

Your buddy




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem 
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 04:41:11 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown
Message-ID: <199803311234.HAA27998@mx01.globecomm.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

The original message was received at Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:34:58 -0500 (EST)
from camel8.mindspring.com [207.69.200.58]

**
This is an automatic message to inform you that your email was not
forwarded through iName's server.

The iName email address that you tried to send mail to may not be active.
Reasons for the failed delivery attempt could include:

1. The iName customer has selected a new personalized iName email address
   rendering their old iName email address inactive.

2. The iName customer may have signed up for one of iName's free offers
   and then not validated their forwarding address.

3  The address may simply be typed incorrectly.  Please check that you
   typed the email address correctly.

iName provides email users with a permanent, personalized and secure email
address that is independent of how one accesses the Internet.  iName acts
as a global forwarding service.  All email sent to a permanent iName address
is automatically forwarded to a user specified destination email address.
Please visit iName's Online Support Area at
http://www.iname.com/info/intro/index.html for further information.
**

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
debtzapper@mailexcite.com
    (expanded from: )

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
... while talking to mta4.mailexcite.com.:
>>> RCPT To:
<<< 550 [SMTPD]: This account has temporarily exceeded its incoming quota
550 debtzapper@mailexcite.com... User unknown


Reporting-MTA: dns; mx01.globecomm.net
Received-From-MTA: DNS; camel8.mindspring.com
Arrival-Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:34:58 -0500 (EST)

Final-Recipient: RFC822; 
X-Actual-Recipient: RFC822; debtzapper@mailexcite.com
Action: failed
Status: 5.1.1
Remote-MTA: DNS; mta4.mailexcite.com
Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 [SMTPD]: This account has temporarily exceeded its incoming quota
Last-Attempt-Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:34:59 -0500 (EST)


Subject: Some spam
From: cypherpunks@toad.com
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:40:44 -0500 (EST)

Here is the information on the $9 dental plan we talked about. I 
apologise for the delay in getting the information to you but I 
have been swamped for request. Please fax me if you want more 
information or wish to sign up.

I don't know what you're talking about; thought I'd let you know.

Your buddy




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem 
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 04:41:13 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown
Message-ID: <199803311235.HAA28010@mx01.globecomm.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

The original message was received at Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:35:00 -0500 (EST)
from camel8.mindspring.com [207.69.200.58]

**
This is an automatic message to inform you that your email was not
forwarded through iName's server.

The iName email address that you tried to send mail to may not be active.
Reasons for the failed delivery attempt could include:

1. The iName customer has selected a new personalized iName email address
   rendering their old iName email address inactive.

2. The iName customer may have signed up for one of iName's free offers
   and then not validated their forwarding address.

3  The address may simply be typed incorrectly.  Please check that you
   typed the email address correctly.

iName provides email users with a permanent, personalized and secure email
address that is independent of how one accesses the Internet.  iName acts
as a global forwarding service.  All email sent to a permanent iName address
is automatically forwarded to a user specified destination email address.
Please visit iName's Online Support Area at
http://www.iname.com/info/intro/index.html for further information.
**

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
debtzapper@mailexcite.com
    (expanded from: )

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
... while talking to mta1.mailexcite.com.:
>>> RCPT To:
<<< 550 [SMTPD]: This account has temporarily exceeded its incoming quota
550 debtzapper@mailexcite.com... User unknown


Reporting-MTA: dns; mx01.globecomm.net
Received-From-MTA: DNS; camel8.mindspring.com
Arrival-Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:35:00 -0500 (EST)

Final-Recipient: RFC822; 
X-Actual-Recipient: RFC822; debtzapper@mailexcite.com
Action: failed
Status: 5.1.1
Remote-MTA: DNS; mta1.mailexcite.com
Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 [SMTPD]: This account has temporarily exceeded its incoming quota
Last-Attempt-Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:35:01 -0500 (EST)


Subject: Some spam
From: cypherpunks@toad.com
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:40:46 -0500 (EST)

Here is the information on the $9 dental plan we talked about. I 
apologise for the delay in getting the information to you but I 
have been swamped for request. Please fax me if you want more 
information or wish to sign up.

I don't know what you're talking about; thought I'd let you know.

Your buddy




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem 
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 04:41:13 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown
Message-ID: <199803311235.HAA28025@mx01.globecomm.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

The original message was received at Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:35:02 -0500 (EST)
from camel8.mindspring.com [207.69.200.58]

**
This is an automatic message to inform you that your email was not
forwarded through iName's server.

The iName email address that you tried to send mail to may not be active.
Reasons for the failed delivery attempt could include:

1. The iName customer has selected a new personalized iName email address
   rendering their old iName email address inactive.

2. The iName customer may have signed up for one of iName's free offers
   and then not validated their forwarding address.

3  The address may simply be typed incorrectly.  Please check that you
   typed the email address correctly.

iName provides email users with a permanent, personalized and secure email
address that is independent of how one accesses the Internet.  iName acts
as a global forwarding service.  All email sent to a permanent iName address
is automatically forwarded to a user specified destination email address.
Please visit iName's Online Support Area at
http://www.iname.com/info/intro/index.html for further information.
**

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
debtzapper@mailexcite.com
    (expanded from: )

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
... while talking to mta2.mailexcite.com.:
>>> RCPT To:
<<< 550 [SMTPD]: This account has temporarily exceeded its incoming quota
550 debtzapper@mailexcite.com... User unknown


Reporting-MTA: dns; mx01.globecomm.net
Received-From-MTA: DNS; camel8.mindspring.com
Arrival-Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:35:02 -0500 (EST)

Final-Recipient: RFC822; 
X-Actual-Recipient: RFC822; debtzapper@mailexcite.com
Action: failed
Status: 5.1.1
Remote-MTA: DNS; mta2.mailexcite.com
Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 [SMTPD]: This account has temporarily exceeded its incoming quota
Last-Attempt-Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:35:03 -0500 (EST)


Subject: Some spam
From: cypherpunks@toad.com
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:40:47 -0500 (EST)

Here is the information on the $9 dental plan we talked about. I 
apologise for the delay in getting the information to you but I 
have been swamped for request. Please fax me if you want more 
information or wish to sign up.

I don't know what you're talking about; thought I'd let you know.

Your buddy




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem 
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 04:41:17 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown
Message-ID: <199803311235.HAA28056@mx01.globecomm.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

The original message was received at Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:35:08 -0500 (EST)
from camel8.mindspring.com [207.69.200.58]

**
This is an automatic message to inform you that your email was not
forwarded through iName's server.

The iName email address that you tried to send mail to may not be active.
Reasons for the failed delivery attempt could include:

1. The iName customer has selected a new personalized iName email address
   rendering their old iName email address inactive.

2. The iName customer may have signed up for one of iName's free offers
   and then not validated their forwarding address.

3  The address may simply be typed incorrectly.  Please check that you
   typed the email address correctly.

iName provides email users with a permanent, personalized and secure email
address that is independent of how one accesses the Internet.  iName acts
as a global forwarding service.  All email sent to a permanent iName address
is automatically forwarded to a user specified destination email address.
Please visit iName's Online Support Area at
http://www.iname.com/info/intro/index.html for further information.
**

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
debtzapper@mailexcite.com
    (expanded from: )

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
... while talking to mta3.mailexcite.com.:
>>> RCPT To:
<<< 550 [SMTPD]: This account has temporarily exceeded its incoming quota
550 debtzapper@mailexcite.com... User unknown


Reporting-MTA: dns; mx01.globecomm.net
Received-From-MTA: DNS; camel8.mindspring.com
Arrival-Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:35:08 -0500 (EST)

Final-Recipient: RFC822; 
X-Actual-Recipient: RFC822; debtzapper@mailexcite.com
Action: failed
Status: 5.1.1
Remote-MTA: DNS; mta3.mailexcite.com
Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 [SMTPD]: This account has temporarily exceeded its incoming quota
Last-Attempt-Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:35:09 -0500 (EST)


Subject: Some spam
From: cypherpunks@toad.com
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:40:54 -0500 (EST)

Here is the information on the $9 dental plan we talked about. I 
apologise for the delay in getting the information to you but I 
have been swamped for request. Please fax me if you want more 
information or wish to sign up.

I don't know what you're talking about; thought I'd let you know.

Your buddy




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem 
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 04:41:18 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown
Message-ID: <199803311235.HAA28068@mx01.globecomm.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

The original message was received at Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:35:10 -0500 (EST)
from camel8.mindspring.com [207.69.200.58]

**
This is an automatic message to inform you that your email was not
forwarded through iName's server.

The iName email address that you tried to send mail to may not be active.
Reasons for the failed delivery attempt could include:

1. The iName customer has selected a new personalized iName email address
   rendering their old iName email address inactive.

2. The iName customer may have signed up for one of iName's free offers
   and then not validated their forwarding address.

3  The address may simply be typed incorrectly.  Please check that you
   typed the email address correctly.

iName provides email users with a permanent, personalized and secure email
address that is independent of how one accesses the Internet.  iName acts
as a global forwarding service.  All email sent to a permanent iName address
is automatically forwarded to a user specified destination email address.
Please visit iName's Online Support Area at
http://www.iname.com/info/intro/index.html for further information.
**

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
debtzapper@mailexcite.com
    (expanded from: )

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
... while talking to mta1.mailexcite.com.:
>>> RCPT To:
<<< 550 [SMTPD]: This account has temporarily exceeded its incoming quota
550 debtzapper@mailexcite.com... User unknown


Reporting-MTA: dns; mx01.globecomm.net
Received-From-MTA: DNS; camel8.mindspring.com
Arrival-Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:35:10 -0500 (EST)

Final-Recipient: RFC822; 
X-Actual-Recipient: RFC822; debtzapper@mailexcite.com
Action: failed
Status: 5.1.1
Remote-MTA: DNS; mta1.mailexcite.com
Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 [SMTPD]: This account has temporarily exceeded its incoming quota
Last-Attempt-Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:35:11 -0500 (EST)


Subject: Some spam
From: cypherpunks@toad.com
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:40:56 -0500 (EST)

Here is the information on the $9 dental plan we talked about. I 
apologise for the delay in getting the information to you but I 
have been swamped for request. Please fax me if you want more 
information or wish to sign up.

I don't know what you're talking about; thought I'd let you know.

Your buddy




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem 
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 04:42:59 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown
Message-ID: <199803311235.HAA28077@mx01.globecomm.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

The original message was received at Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:35:12 -0500 (EST)
from camel8.mindspring.com [207.69.200.58]

**
This is an automatic message to inform you that your email was not
forwarded through iName's server.

The iName email address that you tried to send mail to may not be active.
Reasons for the failed delivery attempt could include:

1. The iName customer has selected a new personalized iName email address
   rendering their old iName email address inactive.

2. The iName customer may have signed up for one of iName's free offers
   and then not validated their forwarding address.

3  The address may simply be typed incorrectly.  Please check that you
   typed the email address correctly.

iName provides email users with a permanent, personalized and secure email
address that is independent of how one accesses the Internet.  iName acts
as a global forwarding service.  All email sent to a permanent iName address
is automatically forwarded to a user specified destination email address.
Please visit iName's Online Support Area at
http://www.iname.com/info/intro/index.html for further information.
**

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
debtzapper@mailexcite.com
    (expanded from: )

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
... while talking to mta1.mailexcite.com.:
>>> RCPT To:
<<< 550 [SMTPD]: This account has temporarily exceeded its incoming quota
550 debtzapper@mailexcite.com... User unknown


Reporting-MTA: dns; mx01.globecomm.net
Received-From-MTA: DNS; camel8.mindspring.com
Arrival-Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:35:12 -0500 (EST)

Final-Recipient: RFC822; 
X-Actual-Recipient: RFC822; debtzapper@mailexcite.com
Action: failed
Status: 5.1.1
Remote-MTA: DNS; mta1.mailexcite.com
Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 [SMTPD]: This account has temporarily exceeded its incoming quota
Last-Attempt-Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:35:13 -0500 (EST)


Subject: Some spam
From: cypherpunks@toad.com
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:40:57 -0500 (EST)

Here is the information on the $9 dental plan we talked about. I 
apologise for the delay in getting the information to you but I 
have been swamped for request. Please fax me if you want more 
information or wish to sign up.

I don't know what you're talking about; thought I'd let you know.

Your buddy




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem 
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 04:41:19 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown
Message-ID: <199803311235.HAA28090@mx01.globecomm.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

The original message was received at Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:35:14 -0500 (EST)
from camel8.mindspring.com [207.69.200.58]

**
This is an automatic message to inform you that your email was not
forwarded through iName's server.

The iName email address that you tried to send mail to may not be active.
Reasons for the failed delivery attempt could include:

1. The iName customer has selected a new personalized iName email address
   rendering their old iName email address inactive.

2. The iName customer may have signed up for one of iName's free offers
   and then not validated their forwarding address.

3  The address may simply be typed incorrectly.  Please check that you
   typed the email address correctly.

iName provides email users with a permanent, personalized and secure email
address that is independent of how one accesses the Internet.  iName acts
as a global forwarding service.  All email sent to a permanent iName address
is automatically forwarded to a user specified destination email address.
Please visit iName's Online Support Area at
http://www.iname.com/info/intro/index.html for further information.
**

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
debtzapper@mailexcite.com
    (expanded from: )

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
... while talking to mta3.mailexcite.com.:
>>> RCPT To:
<<< 550 [SMTPD]: This account has temporarily exceeded its incoming quota
550 debtzapper@mailexcite.com... User unknown


Reporting-MTA: dns; mx01.globecomm.net
Received-From-MTA: DNS; camel8.mindspring.com
Arrival-Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:35:14 -0500 (EST)

Final-Recipient: RFC822; 
X-Actual-Recipient: RFC822; debtzapper@mailexcite.com
Action: failed
Status: 5.1.1
Remote-MTA: DNS; mta3.mailexcite.com
Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 [SMTPD]: This account has temporarily exceeded its incoming quota
Last-Attempt-Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:35:15 -0500 (EST)


Subject: Some spam
From: cypherpunks@toad.com
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:41:00 -0500 (EST)

Here is the information on the $9 dental plan we talked about. I 
apologise for the delay in getting the information to you but I 
have been swamped for request. Please fax me if you want more 
information or wish to sign up.

I don't know what you're talking about; thought I'd let you know.

Your buddy




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem 
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 04:40:45 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown
Message-ID: <199803311237.HAA12760@mx03.globecomm.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

The original message was received at Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:37:17 -0500 (EST)
from camel8.mindspring.com [207.69.200.58]

**
This is an automatic message to inform you that your email was not
forwarded through iName's server.

The iName email address that you tried to send mail to may not be active.
Reasons for the failed delivery attempt could include:

1. The iName customer has selected a new personalized iName email address
   rendering their old iName email address inactive.

2. The iName customer may have signed up for one of iName's free offers
   and then not validated their forwarding address.

3  The address may simply be typed incorrectly.  Please check that you
   typed the email address correctly.

iName provides email users with a permanent, personalized and secure email
address that is independent of how one accesses the Internet.  iName acts
as a global forwarding service.  All email sent to a permanent iName address
is automatically forwarded to a user specified destination email address.
Please visit iName's Online Support Area at
http://www.iname.com/info/intro/index.html for further information.
**

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
debtzapper@mailexcite.com
    (expanded from: )

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
... while talking to mta2.mailexcite.com.:
>>> RCPT To:
<<< 550 [SMTPD]: This account has temporarily exceeded its incoming quota
550 debtzapper@mailexcite.com... User unknown


Reporting-MTA: dns; mx03.globecomm.net
Received-From-MTA: DNS; camel8.mindspring.com
Arrival-Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:37:17 -0500 (EST)

Final-Recipient: RFC822; 
X-Actual-Recipient: RFC822; debtzapper@mailexcite.com
Action: failed
Status: 5.1.1
Remote-MTA: DNS; mta2.mailexcite.com
Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 [SMTPD]: This account has temporarily exceeded its incoming quota
Last-Attempt-Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:37:18 -0500 (EST)


Subject: Some spam
From: cypherpunks@toad.com
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:40:32 -0500 (EST)

Here is the information on the $9 dental plan we talked about. I 
apologise for the delay in getting the information to you but I 
have been swamped for request. Please fax me if you want more 
information or wish to sign up.

I don't know what you're talking about; thought I'd let you know.

Your buddy




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem 
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 04:40:51 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown
Message-ID: <199803311237.HAA12780@mx03.globecomm.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

The original message was received at Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:37:20 -0500 (EST)
from camel8.mindspring.com [207.69.200.58]

**
This is an automatic message to inform you that your email was not
forwarded through iName's server.

The iName email address that you tried to send mail to may not be active.
Reasons for the failed delivery attempt could include:

1. The iName customer has selected a new personalized iName email address
   rendering their old iName email address inactive.

2. The iName customer may have signed up for one of iName's free offers
   and then not validated their forwarding address.

3  The address may simply be typed incorrectly.  Please check that you
   typed the email address correctly.

iName provides email users with a permanent, personalized and secure email
address that is independent of how one accesses the Internet.  iName acts
as a global forwarding service.  All email sent to a permanent iName address
is automatically forwarded to a user specified destination email address.
Please visit iName's Online Support Area at
http://www.iname.com/info/intro/index.html for further information.
**

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
debtzapper@mailexcite.com
    (expanded from: )

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
... while talking to mta1.mailexcite.com.:
>>> RCPT To:
<<< 550 [SMTPD]: This account has temporarily exceeded its incoming quota
550 debtzapper@mailexcite.com... User unknown


Reporting-MTA: dns; mx03.globecomm.net
Received-From-MTA: DNS; camel8.mindspring.com
Arrival-Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:37:20 -0500 (EST)

Final-Recipient: RFC822; 
X-Actual-Recipient: RFC822; debtzapper@mailexcite.com
Action: failed
Status: 5.1.1
Remote-MTA: DNS; mta1.mailexcite.com
Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 [SMTPD]: This account has temporarily exceeded its incoming quota
Last-Attempt-Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:37:21 -0500 (EST)


Subject: Some spam
From: cypherpunks@toad.com
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:40:35 -0500 (EST)

Here is the information on the $9 dental plan we talked about. I 
apologise for the delay in getting the information to you but I 
have been swamped for request. Please fax me if you want more 
information or wish to sign up.

I don't know what you're talking about; thought I'd let you know.

Your buddy




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem 
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 04:40:57 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown
Message-ID: <199803311237.HAA04447@mx05.globecomm.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

The original message was received at Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:37:28 -0500 (EST)
from camel8.mindspring.com [207.69.200.58]

**
This is an automatic message to inform you that your email was not
forwarded through iName's server.

The iName email address that you tried to send mail to may not be active.
Reasons for the failed delivery attempt could include:

1. The iName customer has selected a new personalized iName email address
   rendering their old iName email address inactive.

2. The iName customer may have signed up for one of iName's free offers
   and then not validated their forwarding address.

3  The address may simply be typed incorrectly.  Please check that you
   typed the email address correctly.

iName provides email users with a permanent, personalized and secure email
address that is independent of how one accesses the Internet.  iName acts
as a global forwarding service.  All email sent to a permanent iName address
is automatically forwarded to a user specified destination email address.
Please visit iName's Online Support Area at
http://www.iname.com/info/intro/index.html for further information.
**

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
debtzapper@mailexcite.com
    (expanded from: )

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
... while talking to mta1.mailexcite.com.:
>>> RCPT To:
<<< 550 [SMTPD]: This account has temporarily exceeded its incoming quota
550 debtzapper@mailexcite.com... User unknown


Reporting-MTA: dns; mx05.globecomm.net
Received-From-MTA: DNS; camel8.mindspring.com
Arrival-Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:37:28 -0500 (EST)

Final-Recipient: RFC822; 
X-Actual-Recipient: RFC822; debtzapper@mailexcite.com
Action: failed
Status: 5.1.1
Remote-MTA: DNS; mta1.mailexcite.com
Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 [SMTPD]: This account has temporarily exceeded its incoming quota
Last-Attempt-Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:37:29 -0500 (EST)


Subject: Some spam
From: cypherpunks@toad.com
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:40:36 -0500 (EST)

Here is the information on the $9 dental plan we talked about. I 
apologise for the delay in getting the information to you but I 
have been swamped for request. Please fax me if you want more 
information or wish to sign up.

I don't know what you're talking about; thought I'd let you know.

Your buddy




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem 
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 04:41:00 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown
Message-ID: <199803311237.HAA03982@mx02.globecomm.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

The original message was received at Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:37:32 -0500 (EST)
from camel8.mindspring.com [207.69.200.58]

**
This is an automatic message to inform you that your email was not
forwarded through iName's server.

The iName email address that you tried to send mail to may not be active.
Reasons for the failed delivery attempt could include:

1. The iName customer has selected a new personalized iName email address
   rendering their old iName email address inactive.

2. The iName customer may have signed up for one of iName's free offers
   and then not validated their forwarding address.

3  The address may simply be typed incorrectly.  Please check that you
   typed the email address correctly.

iName provides email users with a permanent, personalized and secure email
address that is independent of how one accesses the Internet.  iName acts
as a global forwarding service.  All email sent to a permanent iName address
is automatically forwarded to a user specified destination email address.
Please visit iName's Online Support Area at
http://www.iname.com/info/intro/index.html for further information.
**

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
debtzapper@mailexcite.com
    (expanded from: )

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
... while talking to mta1.mailexcite.com.:
>>> RCPT To:
<<< 550 [SMTPD]: This account has temporarily exceeded its incoming quota
550 debtzapper@mailexcite.com... User unknown


Reporting-MTA: dns; mx02.globecomm.net
Received-From-MTA: DNS; camel8.mindspring.com
Arrival-Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:37:32 -0500 (EST)

Final-Recipient: RFC822; 
X-Actual-Recipient: RFC822; debtzapper@mailexcite.com
Action: failed
Status: 5.1.1
Remote-MTA: DNS; mta1.mailexcite.com
Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 [SMTPD]: This account has temporarily exceeded its incoming quota
Last-Attempt-Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:37:33 -0500 (EST)


Subject: Some spam
From: cypherpunks@toad.com
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:40:38 -0500 (EST)

Here is the information on the $9 dental plan we talked about. I 
apologise for the delay in getting the information to you but I 
have been swamped for request. Please fax me if you want more 
information or wish to sign up.

I don't know what you're talking about; thought I'd let you know.

Your buddy




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem 
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 04:42:55 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown
Message-ID: <199803311237.HAA12883@mx03.globecomm.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

The original message was received at Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:37:38 -0500 (EST)
from camel8.mindspring.com [207.69.200.58]

**
This is an automatic message to inform you that your email was not
forwarded through iName's server.

The iName email address that you tried to send mail to may not be active.
Reasons for the failed delivery attempt could include:

1. The iName customer has selected a new personalized iName email address
   rendering their old iName email address inactive.

2. The iName customer may have signed up for one of iName's free offers
   and then not validated their forwarding address.

3  The address may simply be typed incorrectly.  Please check that you
   typed the email address correctly.

iName provides email users with a permanent, personalized and secure email
address that is independent of how one accesses the Internet.  iName acts
as a global forwarding service.  All email sent to a permanent iName address
is automatically forwarded to a user specified destination email address.
Please visit iName's Online Support Area at
http://www.iname.com/info/intro/index.html for further information.
**

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
debtzapper@mailexcite.com
    (expanded from: )

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
... while talking to mta4.mailexcite.com.:
>>> RCPT To:
<<< 550 [SMTPD]: This account has temporarily exceeded its incoming quota
550 debtzapper@mailexcite.com... User unknown


Reporting-MTA: dns; mx03.globecomm.net
Received-From-MTA: DNS; camel8.mindspring.com
Arrival-Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:37:38 -0500 (EST)

Final-Recipient: RFC822; 
X-Actual-Recipient: RFC822; debtzapper@mailexcite.com
Action: failed
Status: 5.1.1
Remote-MTA: DNS; mta4.mailexcite.com
Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 [SMTPD]: This account has temporarily exceeded its incoming quota
Last-Attempt-Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:37:39 -0500 (EST)


Subject: Some spam
From: cypherpunks@toad.com
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:40:50 -0500 (EST)

Here is the information on the $9 dental plan we talked about. I 
apologise for the delay in getting the information to you but I 
have been swamped for request. Please fax me if you want more 
information or wish to sign up.

I don't know what you're talking about; thought I'd let you know.

Your buddy




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem 
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 04:42:57 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown
Message-ID: <199803311237.HAA12882@mx03.globecomm.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

The original message was received at Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:37:38 -0500 (EST)
from camel8.mindspring.com [207.69.200.58]

**
This is an automatic message to inform you that your email was not
forwarded through iName's server.

The iName email address that you tried to send mail to may not be active.
Reasons for the failed delivery attempt could include:

1. The iName customer has selected a new personalized iName email address
   rendering their old iName email address inactive.

2. The iName customer may have signed up for one of iName's free offers
   and then not validated their forwarding address.

3  The address may simply be typed incorrectly.  Please check that you
   typed the email address correctly.

iName provides email users with a permanent, personalized and secure email
address that is independent of how one accesses the Internet.  iName acts
as a global forwarding service.  All email sent to a permanent iName address
is automatically forwarded to a user specified destination email address.
Please visit iName's Online Support Area at
http://www.iname.com/info/intro/index.html for further information.
**

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
debtzapper@mailexcite.com
    (expanded from: )

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
... while talking to mta2.mailexcite.com.:
>>> RCPT To:
<<< 550 [SMTPD]: This account has temporarily exceeded its incoming quota
550 debtzapper@mailexcite.com... User unknown


Reporting-MTA: dns; mx03.globecomm.net
Received-From-MTA: DNS; camel8.mindspring.com
Arrival-Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:37:38 -0500 (EST)

Final-Recipient: RFC822; 
X-Actual-Recipient: RFC822; debtzapper@mailexcite.com
Action: failed
Status: 5.1.1
Remote-MTA: DNS; mta2.mailexcite.com
Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 [SMTPD]: This account has temporarily exceeded its incoming quota
Last-Attempt-Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:37:39 -0500 (EST)


Subject: Some spam
From: cypherpunks@toad.com
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:40:53 -0500 (EST)

Here is the information on the $9 dental plan we talked about. I 
apologise for the delay in getting the information to you but I 
have been swamped for request. Please fax me if you want more 
information or wish to sign up.

I don't know what you're talking about; thought I'd let you know.

Your buddy




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem 
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 04:37:41 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown
Message-ID: <199803311241.HAA01831@mx04.globecomm.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

The original message was received at Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:41:11 -0500 (EST)
from camel7.mindspring.com [207.69.200.57]

**
This is an automatic message to inform you that your email was not
forwarded through iName's server.

The iName email address that you tried to send mail to may not be active.
Reasons for the failed delivery attempt could include:

1. The iName customer has selected a new personalized iName email address
   rendering their old iName email address inactive.

2. The iName customer may have signed up for one of iName's free offers
   and then not validated their forwarding address.

3  The address may simply be typed incorrectly.  Please check that you
   typed the email address correctly.

iName provides email users with a permanent, personalized and secure email
address that is independent of how one accesses the Internet.  iName acts
as a global forwarding service.  All email sent to a permanent iName address
is automatically forwarded to a user specified destination email address.
Please visit iName's Online Support Area at
http://www.iname.com/info/intro/index.html for further information.
**

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
debtzapper@mailexcite.com
    (expanded from: )

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
... while talking to mta2.mailexcite.com.:
>>> RCPT To:
<<< 550 [SMTPD]: This account has temporarily exceeded its incoming quota
550 debtzapper@mailexcite.com... User unknown


Reporting-MTA: dns; mx04.globecomm.net
Received-From-MTA: DNS; camel7.mindspring.com
Arrival-Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:41:11 -0500 (EST)

Final-Recipient: RFC822; 
X-Actual-Recipient: RFC822; debtzapper@mailexcite.com
Action: failed
Status: 5.1.1
Remote-MTA: DNS; mta2.mailexcite.com
Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 [SMTPD]: This account has temporarily exceeded its incoming quota
Last-Attempt-Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:41:12 -0500 (EST)


Subject: Some spam
From: cypherpunks@toad.com
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:37:32 -0500 (EST)

Here is the information on the $9 dental plan we talked about. I 
apologise for the delay in getting the information to you but I 
have been swamped for request. Please fax me if you want more 
information or wish to sign up.

I don't know what you're talking about; thought I'd let you know.

Your buddy




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem 
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 04:39:34 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown
Message-ID: <199803311241.HAA01880@mx04.globecomm.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

The original message was received at Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:41:18 -0500 (EST)
from camel7.mindspring.com [207.69.200.57]

**
This is an automatic message to inform you that your email was not
forwarded through iName's server.

The iName email address that you tried to send mail to may not be active.
Reasons for the failed delivery attempt could include:

1. The iName customer has selected a new personalized iName email address
   rendering their old iName email address inactive.

2. The iName customer may have signed up for one of iName's free offers
   and then not validated their forwarding address.

3  The address may simply be typed incorrectly.  Please check that you
   typed the email address correctly.

iName provides email users with a permanent, personalized and secure email
address that is independent of how one accesses the Internet.  iName acts
as a global forwarding service.  All email sent to a permanent iName address
is automatically forwarded to a user specified destination email address.
Please visit iName's Online Support Area at
http://www.iname.com/info/intro/index.html for further information.
**

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
debtzapper@mailexcite.com
    (expanded from: )

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
... while talking to mta1.mailexcite.com.:
>>> RCPT To:
<<< 550 [SMTPD]: This account has temporarily exceeded its incoming quota
550 debtzapper@mailexcite.com... User unknown


Reporting-MTA: dns; mx04.globecomm.net
Received-From-MTA: DNS; camel7.mindspring.com
Arrival-Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:41:18 -0500 (EST)

Final-Recipient: RFC822; 
X-Actual-Recipient: RFC822; debtzapper@mailexcite.com
Action: failed
Status: 5.1.1
Remote-MTA: DNS; mta1.mailexcite.com
Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 [SMTPD]: This account has temporarily exceeded its incoming quota
Last-Attempt-Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:41:19 -0500 (EST)


Subject: Some spam
From: cypherpunks@toad.com
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:37:38 -0500 (EST)

Here is the information on the $9 dental plan we talked about. I 
apologise for the delay in getting the information to you but I 
have been swamped for request. Please fax me if you want more 
information or wish to sign up.

I don't know what you're talking about; thought I'd let you know.

Your buddy




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem 
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 04:43:01 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown
Message-ID: <199803311241.HAA01904@mx04.globecomm.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

The original message was received at Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:41:22 -0500 (EST)
from camel7.mindspring.com [207.69.200.57]

**
This is an automatic message to inform you that your email was not
forwarded through iName's server.

The iName email address that you tried to send mail to may not be active.
Reasons for the failed delivery attempt could include:

1. The iName customer has selected a new personalized iName email address
   rendering their old iName email address inactive.

2. The iName customer may have signed up for one of iName's free offers
   and then not validated their forwarding address.

3  The address may simply be typed incorrectly.  Please check that you
   typed the email address correctly.

iName provides email users with a permanent, personalized and secure email
address that is independent of how one accesses the Internet.  iName acts
as a global forwarding service.  All email sent to a permanent iName address
is automatically forwarded to a user specified destination email address.
Please visit iName's Online Support Area at
http://www.iname.com/info/intro/index.html for further information.
**

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
debtzapper@mailexcite.com
    (expanded from: )

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
... while talking to mta4.mailexcite.com.:
>>> RCPT To:
<<< 550 [SMTPD]: This account has temporarily exceeded its incoming quota
550 debtzapper@mailexcite.com... User unknown


Reporting-MTA: dns; mx04.globecomm.net
Received-From-MTA: DNS; camel7.mindspring.com
Arrival-Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:41:22 -0500 (EST)

Final-Recipient: RFC822; 
X-Actual-Recipient: RFC822; debtzapper@mailexcite.com
Action: failed
Status: 5.1.1
Remote-MTA: DNS; mta4.mailexcite.com
Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 [SMTPD]: This account has temporarily exceeded its incoming quota
Last-Attempt-Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:41:23 -0500 (EST)


Subject: Some spam
From: cypherpunks@toad.com
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:37:43 -0500 (EST)

Here is the information on the $9 dental plan we talked about. I 
apologise for the delay in getting the information to you but I 
have been swamped for request. Please fax me if you want more 
information or wish to sign up.

I don't know what you're talking about; thought I'd let you know.

Your buddy




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem 
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 04:40:38 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown
Message-ID: <199803311244.HAA02821@mx04.globecomm.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

The original message was received at Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:44:09 -0500 (EST)
from camel8.mindspring.com [207.69.200.58]

**
This is an automatic message to inform you that your email was not
forwarded through iName's server.

The iName email address that you tried to send mail to may not be active.
Reasons for the failed delivery attempt could include:

1. The iName customer has selected a new personalized iName email address
   rendering their old iName email address inactive.

2. The iName customer may have signed up for one of iName's free offers
   and then not validated their forwarding address.

3  The address may simply be typed incorrectly.  Please check that you
   typed the email address correctly.

iName provides email users with a permanent, personalized and secure email
address that is independent of how one accesses the Internet.  iName acts
as a global forwarding service.  All email sent to a permanent iName address
is automatically forwarded to a user specified destination email address.
Please visit iName's Online Support Area at
http://www.iname.com/info/intro/index.html for further information.
**

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
debtzapper@mailexcite.com
    (expanded from: )

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
... while talking to mta1.mailexcite.com.:
>>> RCPT To:
<<< 550 [SMTPD]: This account has temporarily exceeded its incoming quota
550 debtzapper@mailexcite.com... User unknown


Reporting-MTA: dns; mx04.globecomm.net
Received-From-MTA: DNS; camel8.mindspring.com
Arrival-Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:44:09 -0500 (EST)

Final-Recipient: RFC822; 
X-Actual-Recipient: RFC822; debtzapper@mailexcite.com
Action: failed
Status: 5.1.1
Remote-MTA: DNS; mta1.mailexcite.com
Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 [SMTPD]: This account has temporarily exceeded its incoming quota
Last-Attempt-Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:44:10 -0500 (EST)


Subject: Some spam
From: cypherpunks@toad.com
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:40:30 -0500 (EST)

Here is the information on the $9 dental plan we talked about. I 
apologise for the delay in getting the information to you but I 
have been swamped for request. Please fax me if you want more 
information or wish to sign up.

I don't know what you're talking about; thought I'd let you know.

Your buddy




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem 
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 04:41:12 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown
Message-ID: <199803311244.HAA02901@mx04.globecomm.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

The original message was received at Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:44:22 -0500 (EST)
from camel8.mindspring.com [207.69.200.58]

**
This is an automatic message to inform you that your email was not
forwarded through iName's server.

The iName email address that you tried to send mail to may not be active.
Reasons for the failed delivery attempt could include:

1. The iName customer has selected a new personalized iName email address
   rendering their old iName email address inactive.

2. The iName customer may have signed up for one of iName's free offers
   and then not validated their forwarding address.

3  The address may simply be typed incorrectly.  Please check that you
   typed the email address correctly.

iName provides email users with a permanent, personalized and secure email
address that is independent of how one accesses the Internet.  iName acts
as a global forwarding service.  All email sent to a permanent iName address
is automatically forwarded to a user specified destination email address.
Please visit iName's Online Support Area at
http://www.iname.com/info/intro/index.html for further information.
**

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
debtzapper@mailexcite.com
    (expanded from: )

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
... while talking to mta2.mailexcite.com.:
>>> RCPT To:
<<< 550 [SMTPD]: This account has temporarily exceeded its incoming quota
550 debtzapper@mailexcite.com... User unknown


Reporting-MTA: dns; mx04.globecomm.net
Received-From-MTA: DNS; camel8.mindspring.com
Arrival-Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:44:22 -0500 (EST)

Final-Recipient: RFC822; 
X-Actual-Recipient: RFC822; debtzapper@mailexcite.com
Action: failed
Status: 5.1.1
Remote-MTA: DNS; mta2.mailexcite.com
Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 [SMTPD]: This account has temporarily exceeded its incoming quota
Last-Attempt-Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:44:23 -0500 (EST)


Subject: Some spam
From: cypherpunks@toad.com
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:40:42 -0500 (EST)

Here is the information on the $9 dental plan we talked about. I 
apologise for the delay in getting the information to you but I 
have been swamped for request. Please fax me if you want more 
information or wish to sign up.

I don't know what you're talking about; thought I'd let you know.

Your buddy




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem 
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 04:42:52 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown
Message-ID: <199803311244.HAA02935@mx04.globecomm.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

The original message was received at Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:44:28 -0500 (EST)
from camel8.mindspring.com [207.69.200.58]

**
This is an automatic message to inform you that your email was not
forwarded through iName's server.

The iName email address that you tried to send mail to may not be active.
Reasons for the failed delivery attempt could include:

1. The iName customer has selected a new personalized iName email address
   rendering their old iName email address inactive.

2. The iName customer may have signed up for one of iName's free offers
   and then not validated their forwarding address.

3  The address may simply be typed incorrectly.  Please check that you
   typed the email address correctly.

iName provides email users with a permanent, personalized and secure email
address that is independent of how one accesses the Internet.  iName acts
as a global forwarding service.  All email sent to a permanent iName address
is automatically forwarded to a user specified destination email address.
Please visit iName's Online Support Area at
http://www.iname.com/info/intro/index.html for further information.
**

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
debtzapper@mailexcite.com
    (expanded from: )

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
... while talking to mta4.mailexcite.com.:
>>> RCPT To:
<<< 550 [SMTPD]: This account has temporarily exceeded its incoming quota
550 debtzapper@mailexcite.com... User unknown


Reporting-MTA: dns; mx04.globecomm.net
Received-From-MTA: DNS; camel8.mindspring.com
Arrival-Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:44:28 -0500 (EST)

Final-Recipient: RFC822; 
X-Actual-Recipient: RFC822; debtzapper@mailexcite.com
Action: failed
Status: 5.1.1
Remote-MTA: DNS; mta4.mailexcite.com
Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 [SMTPD]: This account has temporarily exceeded its incoming quota
Last-Attempt-Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:44:29 -0500 (EST)


Subject: Some spam
From: cypherpunks@toad.com
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:40:49 -0500 (EST)

Here is the information on the $9 dental plan we talked about. I 
apologise for the delay in getting the information to you but I 
have been swamped for request. Please fax me if you want more 
information or wish to sign up.

I don't know what you're talking about; thought I'd let you know.

Your buddy




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem 
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 04:42:57 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown
Message-ID: <199803311244.HAA02985@mx04.globecomm.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

The original message was received at Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:44:38 -0500 (EST)
from camel8.mindspring.com [207.69.200.58]

**
This is an automatic message to inform you that your email was not
forwarded through iName's server.

The iName email address that you tried to send mail to may not be active.
Reasons for the failed delivery attempt could include:

1. The iName customer has selected a new personalized iName email address
   rendering their old iName email address inactive.

2. The iName customer may have signed up for one of iName's free offers
   and then not validated their forwarding address.

3  The address may simply be typed incorrectly.  Please check that you
   typed the email address correctly.

iName provides email users with a permanent, personalized and secure email
address that is independent of how one accesses the Internet.  iName acts
as a global forwarding service.  All email sent to a permanent iName address
is automatically forwarded to a user specified destination email address.
Please visit iName's Online Support Area at
http://www.iname.com/info/intro/index.html for further information.
**

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
debtzapper@mailexcite.com
    (expanded from: )

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
... while talking to mta1.mailexcite.com.:
>>> RCPT To:
<<< 550 [SMTPD]: This account has temporarily exceeded its incoming quota
550 debtzapper@mailexcite.com... User unknown


Reporting-MTA: dns; mx04.globecomm.net
Received-From-MTA: DNS; camel8.mindspring.com
Arrival-Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:44:38 -0500 (EST)

Final-Recipient: RFC822; 
X-Actual-Recipient: RFC822; debtzapper@mailexcite.com
Action: failed
Status: 5.1.1
Remote-MTA: DNS; mta1.mailexcite.com
Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 [SMTPD]: This account has temporarily exceeded its incoming quota
Last-Attempt-Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:44:39 -0500 (EST)


Subject: Some spam
From: cypherpunks@toad.com
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 07:40:59 -0500 (EST)

Here is the information on the $9 dental plan we talked about. I 
apologise for the delay in getting the information to you but I 
have been swamped for request. Please fax me if you want more 
information or wish to sign up.

I don't know what you're talking about; thought I'd let you know.

Your buddy




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 04:45:05 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: 3DES Weakness
Message-ID: <199803311244.HAA20875@camel7.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


NYT-Markoff reports today on Biham and Knudsen's paper
on 3DES weakness, "Cryptanalysis of the ANSI X9.52 
CBCM Mode," noted here a few days ago.

The ANSI X9.F1 committee has held up implementing its
standard as a result, and may have to wait for AES. 
Credit is given to the worldwide DES crack.

   http://www.nytimes.com

See a mirror:

   http://jya.com/3des-weak.htm

Get the Biham/Knudsen paper:

  http://www.cs.technion.ac.il/%7Ebiham/publications.html






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 08:31:07 -0800 (PST)
To: DJALLEN@sandia.gov
Subject: T 1563 and pals
Message-ID: <3521072D.7BE4@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Tuesday 3/31/98 7:39 AM

John Gilmore
John Young
J Orlin Grabbe

Reading the stuff on the pals at

http://www.jya.com/pal-nukes.htm

http://www.research.att.com/~smb/nsam-160/pal.html

jogged my memory.

After we completed the Forth implementation of the 
Missile Secure Cryptographic Unit at least Hal Pruett,
Duane DeWerff, myself, and perhaps several others
were invited to NSA at Fort Meade in about 1985-6.

NSA employee Bill Legato assailed me for using Forth
for the implementation of the MSCU.

Legato hated Forth and relayed his hate to Sandia management.

This is one reason I was replaced as project leader by Tom Evans
who was later replaced by Eric Disch.

Possibly surprising, however, is that NSA sent Forth expert Don Simard
to
visit Sandia for several years.

Kent Parsons commented to me that he thought Simard was an NSA spy
sent to see what we were up to at Sandia.

Simard, along with Bill Goldrick, were the two reviewers of my 
SAND report now seen at http://jya.com/whpfiles.htm

EE Times, March 30, 1998 page 8

  A Java chip being to ship in quantity
  SAN FRANCISCO - Patriot Scientific Corp. surged to the head
  of the silicon pack at the JavaOne conference last week, showing 
  the PSC1000 RISC processor, which is shipping in quantity.
    "We'll be selling the chip for under $10 in volume and aiming at
  deeply embedded, low-power applications such as handheld devices
  and factory-floor control systems, " said Phil Morettini, vice
  president of Patriot (San Diego).
    Competing offering from LG Semicon and NEC Corp., each based on 
  Sun Microsystems Inc.'s picoJava core, are not yet available, although
  select customers are said to have samples.
    Separately, Rockwell Collins Inc. (Cedar Rapids, Iowa) said that it
has
  decided not to sell its Java-specific CPU on the merchant market.  The
  company unveiled the innovative processor last fall.

Here is their web site.

http://www.ptsc.com/

Charles Moore, inventor of Forth, is author of the Shboom Java native
code compiler for the PCS100.

Rockwell built a Forth-like chip many years ago.

I met Randy Dumse, who then worked for Rockwell, at a trade show.

I got a copy of the Rockwell R65F11 chip manual from Dumse.

Dumse quit Rockwell to start NewMicros seen at 

http://www.newmicros.com/

Click on history to see

http://www.newmicros.com/history.html

Of course, the Harris RTX 2000 chip used by NASA is a descendant of
Charles Moore's Novix Forth chip. http://groucho.gsfc.nasa.gov/forth/

Ballard, I was told by Jeff Allsup of Wood Hole, used polyForth to
discover the wrecks of the Titanic and Bismarck.

A central debate is whether a high-level language should be used for
a weapons programmer.

The implementer must be able to account for each bit.  In Forth I can.

Possibility exists that an disgruntled implementer might 'spike' a 
weapon so that it went off at an unintended time.  

Sandia supervisor Don Schroeder was an OUTSPOKEN critic of the T 1563
nuclear bomb controller.

SCHROEDER,DONALD H.       (505)845-8409  DHSCHRO   (505)844-9478  0519
DHSCHRO@sandia.gov

The T 1563 did not work very well.  One reason is that it was written in
about 112,000 lines of assembler.

NSA was reluctant to approve use of an operating system or even a
high-level 
language for crypto implementation for the reasons that security could
not be
guaranteed. 

Sandia did not have the resources required to write its own secure
operating system
and high-level language.

This is why we used the Forth operating system and high-level language.

Schroeder division employee Mike Sharp

SHARP,MICHAEL W.          (505)845-8444  MWSHARP   (505)284-3850  1138
MWSHARP@sandia.gov

wrote a T 1563 implementation in, I think C or Pascal.

Henry Newgass modified the transient part of command.com 
so that on power-up a PC directly entered Sharp's program.

Jerry Allen, who also saw the merits of using an operating system
and high-level language, funded Neugass.  

ALLEN,DOUGLAS J.          (505)845-9624  DJALLEN   (505)844-7593  1201  
DJALLEN@sandia.gov

I wrote the purchase order.

I learned several months ago that Sandia built a PC version of 
the T 1563 called the T 1663, I was told, which was supplied to 
the Air Force.

The threaded code - compiled native code battle continues.

I am sort-of happy to be back [somewhat] doing MASM code -
along with a bit of Forth and Forth assembler on the 80c32.

I see that J Orlin Grabbe is linking

  Permissive Action Links

at http://www.aci.net/kalliste/

I read

    Both strong links must be closed electrically -- one by specific
operator-coded input and one by      environmental input corresponding
to an appropriate flight trajectory -- in order for the weapon to be
armed. 

George Dullek and Jon Bryan worked together on accellerometers for
flight trajectory sensing.  

Dullek and Bryan are Forth programmers.

DULLECK JR.,GEORGE R.     (505)844-2628  GRDULLE   (505)844-8480  1073
GRDULLE@sandia.gov

BRYAN,JON R.              (505)844-2015  JRBRYAN   (505)844-6161  1003 
JRBRYAN@sandia.gov

Sandia had a division devoted to crystal oscillators.

The oscillators for the micro occasionally fail to start - a bad scene
if this happens when trying to arm
a nuke.

Dick Adams, also in department 2300, was in charge of oscillators. 
Adams never seemed to many of us
too interested in his job.

Adams took an early voluntary separation package from Sandia with a
large educational retraining
incentive.  And went to cooking school in San Francisco, Bob Wayland
told me.  The real world again.

Thanks to good research, some whistleblowing, and Internet details of
fuzing the US nuclear arsenal are being revealed.
  
Let's ALL hope for SETTLEMENT of this unfortunate mess before it gets
WORSE.  

I want my money and I am out of this mess.

Later
bill






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: owner-wow-com-news-update@nmpinc.com
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 16:40:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: WOW-COM News Update
Message-ID: <199804010155.UAA06291@Indy1.newmedium.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



======================================================
This update is sponsored by Hughes Network Systems
  http://www.joinhns.com
======================================================
CTIA's WOW-COM named a "TOP WEB SITE" by Mobile Computing &
Communications Magazine (2/98)

Dear WOW-COM Reader:

WOW-COM(TM) is the wireless industry's online information source, a
FREE service of CTIA.  The world of wireless is in constant motion.
Stay on top of industry news and benefit from CTIA's analysis by
reading http://www.wow-com.com everyday.
   
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send an email to 	 with the following
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If you wish to get in contact with the owner of the list, (i.e.,
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the list itself) please send email to .
Thank you.

INDEX:
======
1) IN TESTIMONY BEFORE HOUSE SUBCOMMITTEE, CTIA PRESIDENT &
CEO OUTLINES STEPS TO IMPROVE EMERGENCY SERVICES 
2)	CTIA's SEMI-ANNUAL DATA SURVEY TO BE PUBLISHED WEEK OF
MARCH 30, 1998 
3)	CIBERNET ANNOUNCES "THE ULTIMATE ROAMING AND BILLING AND
BILLING CONFERENCE," CIBERNET '98 
4)	LOOKING FOR A JOB IN THE WIRELESS INDUSTRY?
  
***********WIRELESS JOB OPPORTUNITY OF THE WEEK***********

http://www.wow-com.com/wworkplace/
  Company:   	Hughes Network Systems
  Job Title: 	Senior Digital Design Engineer - Hardware
  Location:  	Germantown, MD - US
  Job Description:   Lead digital design engineer for satellite
  baseband communications hardware.  Position requires experience in
  design of digital communications subsystems such as modulators,
  demodulators, digital filters, NCOs and FEC encoders/decoders.
  Requires BSEE (MSEE preferred) and 7-10 years of digital design
  experience with emphasis on communication circuit design.
**********************************************************************
IN TESTIMONY BEFORE HOUSE SUBCOMMITTEE, CTIA PRESIDENT & CEO OUTLINES
STEPS TO IMPROVE EMERGENCY SERVICES
==========================================================

http://www.wow-com.com/professional/whatshot
Every day, more than 83,000 wireless calls go to 9-1-1 or other

emergency service numbers. The wireless telecommunications industry,
public safety officials, and health care personnel have come together
to pursue enactment of legislation to set a uniform national emergency
system policy that will coordinate efforts to utilize wireless
technology to save lives. emergencies. Click above to see a summary of
Thomas E.Wheeler's testimony this week and the several key elements
that are important in any national policy to improve emergency medical
services.
CTIA's SEMI-ANNUAL DATA SURVEY TO BE PUBLISHED WEEK OF MARCH 30, 1998 
==========================================================

http://www.wow-com.com/professional
Do you know how many wireless subscribers there are in the U.S. today?
Are you curious to learn the latest benchmarks for the wireless
industry?  If so, check out CTIA's Web site http://www.wow-com.com
next week for the full details.  CTIA's Data survey, scheduled to be
released next week, includes information such as number of subscribers
in the U.S., number of cell sites in the U.S., number of employees in
the wireless industry, the average monthly consumer telephone bill
among other useful wireless statistics.  Remember, log on next week to
learn the key facts and figures about the wireless industry!
CIBERNET ANNOUNCES "THE ULTIMATE ROAMING AND BILLING CONFERENCE,"
CIBERNET '98 
==========================================================

http://www.wow-com.com/results/professional/whatshot
Save the date!  May 14 - 15, 1998 (San Diego, California) 
CIBERNET, world leader in the development of intercarrier billing
standards and provider of financial settlement services offers you an
educational opportunity to learn about the roaming related issues that
are going to have a direct impact on your company's bottom line. If
you work in revenue assurance, roaming or billing - this conference is
the place to be.  Sign up now!  Questions? Call 202-736-3661. 
LOOKING FOR A JOB IN THE WIRELESS
INDUSTRY?==========================================================

http://www.wow-com.com/wworkplace/
Join thousands of other wireless professionals searching for the
perfect wireless job opportunity by logging on to CTIA's Career
Center.  This free online career service offers wireless industry
employment opportunities and information on leading wireless
employment and professional placement services.  The Career Center is
global, offering international job listing and direct access to the
global wireless workplace.  Click above to find your next wireless job
opportunity! 
=============================
MORE WOW-COM(TM) FEATURES
=============================
WOW-COM(TM) is current: Routine Updates throughout the business day 
WOW-COM(TM) is insightful: CTIA's unbiased analysis 
WOW-COM(TM) is beneficial: Find products and services in
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Center, receive resumes via email and hire qualified individuals.
========================================================
This update sponsored by: HUGHES NETWORK SYSTEMS

http://www.hns.com/

http://www.joinhns.com
Hughes Network Systems is one of the fastest-growing digital
communications companies 
in the world, providing world-class wireless, satellite and broadcast
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HNS HOT JOBS CAREER INVITATIONAL. On Saturday, April 25, Hughes
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offer to meet with our Hiring Managers. Interview expenses will be
paid for qualified candidates.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: TruthMonger 
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 20:05:06 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: CNN - DeathMonger
Message-ID: <3521D872.5B77@dev.null>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


SITE SOURCES
    Contents
    Help!
    Search
    CNN Networks


Two Saskatchewan Freemen Assassinated

One of the Freemen holds a drink during the
81-second standoff on April 1, 1998

Assassination stemmed from Microsoft standoff?

Bienfait, SASK (AP) - TruthMonger I and TruthMonger II were
assassinated in an 81-second standoff with an unidentified
team of freelance assassins who accomplished their goal
without firing a single shot.
A few short minutes after the CoalDust Saloon opened for
business, a limousine bearing Redmond, Washington, license
plates pulled up outside the bar, and a half-dozen black-clad,
heavily armed figures raced into the building, behind the
cover of smoke and tear-gas grenades. They were met by a heavy
fusillade of gunfire from a variety of surprised morning drunks
who were onery as snot, not yet having finished their first beer of
the morning.

The assassins rushed into the bar and established strategic
positions, only to find that the two TruthMonger entities who
were the target of the raid already lay dead on the floor.
They quickly rushed out of the CoalDust Saloon and piled into
the limousine, which headed for the American border.

The day-shift barmaid who investigated the scene--in the absence
of local RCMP, who were busy on the reservation legally murdering
WagonBurners-noted that TruthMonger I and TruthMonger II had both
been shot in the head from behind.
Blanc Weber, a member of the Circle of Eunuchs who claimed to
have been "just passing through" Bienfait, at the time, and who
was reported to be standing behind the TwoMongers when the
shooting began, theorized that the fatal shots came from the
grassy knoll behind the bar.
When confronted by an angry crowd of drunken losers who pointed
out that Weber's anger over the TruthMonger Cult of One Clan
including references to her in their Death Threat!!!(s) against
an unnamed billionaire from Redmond, Washington, she bought a
round of drinks for the house, and the matter was quickly dropped.

Jeff Sandquist, a Microsoft employee who had earned his bones by
cleaning up the mess that Circle of Eunuchs founder, C.J. Parker
had made of the computer systems at the offices of a local mobile
home manufacturer, verified Blanc Weber's claims about the shots
coming from the grassy knoll, noting that three bums (Mark Hedges,
Robert Canizales, and a shadowy figure known only as Sameer) had
been picked up shortly after the incident by Estevan City Police,
and taken for a free breakfast at the Husky Truckstop.
Sandquist and Weber were picked up and spirited away by a strange
figure who refused to reveal his identity, but noted that it was
imperative for the group to leave quickly, because "at night, the
ice weasels come."

TruthMongerI.jpg

TruthMongerII.jpg

Local members of the Royal Canadian Mounted Gestapo later indicated
that their investigation into the matter revealed that local law
enforcement personnel in Redmond, Washington, could not find any
suspects in their files matching the description of a billionaire
in a limousine. A follow up inquiry by CNN reporters proved to be
unsuccessful, as all of the officers involved on both sides of the
border had retired by the end of the day.

At a wake held for the TwoMongers after a truckload of Olympia beer
unexpectedly arrived at the bar, the massive crowd that suddenly
appeared out of nowhere reminisced about their fallen drinking
buddies.

"It was probably an act of mercy, since they had been suffering
greatly since installing Win95 on their systems."
~Anonymous

"Ever since TM-I's cousin died of a mysterious heart-attack after
being put in a cage with the female guerillas, we knew it was
only a matter of time before Blanc Weber saw the light and
decided to become a Claire Wolfe in Sheeple's clothing."
~Nobody

"I *love* this bar..."
~A visitor from Boston


                (c) 1998 Cable News Network, Inc.
                A Time Warner Company
                All Rights Reserved.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: freestuff13@juno.com
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 22:10:42 -0800 (PST)
To: freestuff13@juno.com
Subject: Hi :-)
Message-ID: <199804010610.WAA29676@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




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****Please print out the order form and mail it along with your payment****

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Deliver "How to Profit from the Internet" to the following email address:

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(please note, all orders must include an email address incase we encounter a 
problem with processing.  The 50,000 email addresses will be sent to you by email)

Area code and Phone number:

Day time __________________  Evening:  ________________________

[ ] If you prefer to have the report on disk, please check here.  Please 
include an additional $3.00 for shipping and handling, thank you.
(If you reside outside the United States, please include $2.00 extra)

Please check one of the following:

[ ]  I'm ordering within 3 days, please send my FREE software, $10.00 
calling card, 15 How to Reports, "How To Profit From The Internet" 
and FREE BONUSES including 50,000 email addresses for the 
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[ ]  I'm not ordering within the first 3 days of receiving this letter, so I 
agree to pay $39.95 for "How to Profit from the Internet" by itself, 
less the bonus package.

[Internal code 138316] This code must be on order form to be processed!!!

Payment Method:                             

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"In mail-order work, anyone with imagination, determination, and a
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                - U.S. Department of Commerce
************************************************************************************                                                                          
THE MARKET IS HERE - TODAY!   TAKE ADVANTAGE OF IT!!!!!
After you receive your report, I'll answer any questions time permits 
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Toto" 
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 20:37:47 -0800 (PST)
To: "Lance Cottrell" 
Subject: Re: AUP
Message-ID: <000c01bd5d38$68213380$7679a58e@uymfdlvk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----Original Message-----
From: Lance Cottrell 


>Sadly our lawyer suggests that physically dismembering abusers is
>inappropriate from a corporate point of view.  ;)


Pussies...






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Toto" 
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 21:24:30 -0800 (PST)
To: "Vin Suprynowicz" 
Subject: Repeat Offenders / Re: March 1 column - child abuse trials
Message-ID: <005f01bd5d3e$ece30b60$7679a58e@uymfdlvk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Now, if only we could get a conviction...

-----Original Message-----
>    FROM MOUNTAIN MEDIA
>    FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE DATED MARCH 1, 1998
>    THE LIBERTARIAN, By Vin Suprynowicz
>    Where are they now?


>  Only last week did a three-judge panel of the 11th Circuit Court of
>Appeals, in a unanimous ruling, overturn the conviction of Miami police
>officer Grant Snowden, sentenced in 1986 to five life terms on charges he
>had committed sexual crimes against small children.

...
>  If juries are willing to embrace "professional" testimony that small
>children who make fantastic, rambling accusations are telling the truth
>"99.5 percent of the time," have we really come so far from the days of the
>Salem witchcraft trials ... which ended, instructively enough, when 23
>Massachusetts juries in a row finally refused to convict?
...

>  What about those prosecutors, by the way? What ever did become of the
>ambitious Dade County State Attorney whose office prosecuted Officer
>Snowden -- now ordered to be released "unless the state affords him a
>speedy new trial"?
>
>  Why, her name was Janet Reno, and she was elevated in 1993 to the
>position of attorney general of the United States, where she immediately
>oversaw the "protection" of the children of the Mount Carmel religious
>community in Waco, Texas, by federal agents who trapped them in their
>church by using armored vehicles to knock down walls and escape staircases,
>injected the premises with poison gas, and in the process started a fatal
>conflagration by knocking over kerosene lanterns and space heaters, all
>while fellow G-men poured "suppressive" automatic weapons fire into the
>structure to stop anyone from escaping or resisting.
>
>  (See it for yourself, as filmed by federal government cameras: Order the
>video "Waco: The Terms of Engagement," now nominated for an Academy Award
>as best documentary, at $25 by dialing 1-800-771-2147, ext. 19.)
>
>Vin Suprynowicz is the assistant editorial page editor of the Las Vegas
>Review-Journal. Readers may contact him via e-mail at vin@lvrj.com. The web
>site for the Suprynowicz column is at http://www.nguworld.com/vindex/. The
>column is syndicated in the United States and Canada via Mountain Media
>Syndications, P.O. Box 4422, Las Vegas Nev. 89127.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 40264587@usa.net
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 08:18:47 -0800 (PST)
To: URFRIEND@myplace.com
Subject: STOP SMOKING ...SECRET!
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


IF YOU SMOKE , PLEASE READ THIS CAREFULLY!  YOU TOO 
CAN STOP SMOKING EASILY WITH A NEW CHINESE SMOKER'S 
HERBAL AROMA THAT IS NOW AVAILABLE IN THE UNITED
STATES.

This amazing new product has successfully helped  at least 90% of 
those who use it consistently.

"I lost the desire for smoking almost immediately.  When I occasionally
would smoke, the cigarette had no taste and was not fun to smoke.  
After three days, whenever I wanted to smoke I would smell the bottle 
and lose the desire."
Robert F.- Newmanstown, PA.

"I smoked for 15 years.  This product completely took away my desire to
smoke. two days, I cut my smoking in half.  Then I stopped completely! 
 I have never used a product with such power .  I recommend it to any 
smoker who wants to quit."
Michele G., Fairfield, Iowa

   The majority of people who smoke cigarettes would like to quit. Are
you one of these people, or are you too disheartened by the cost of other
failures?

The patch and the nicotine gums are of a certain time limit and can be
very costly.  They also add to the nicotine in your bloodstream.  This new
product is a one time purchase for the majority of people. Think of what it
costs to use the other alternatives.

 This purely natural product acts like nicotine in the bloodstream.  The
small bottle fits easily in your pocket and your purse.   After merely
inhaling  the fragrance  4-10 times a day for about one minute,  the effect
builds day by day.  Usually after 3 or 4 days, your body feels like it already 
has consumed 15 cigarettes.  It is a simple process and can be used in all 
situations where you are forbidden to smoke!  This, for many people relieves 
much stress in the work and social world.

"I was going crazy in meetings, in airplanes, and fancy restaurants.
Now I carry my small bottle wherever I go and can use it everywhere.  It has
helped immensely. "
John M., Boulder, Co.

"I was not ready to quit.  I started to use the product several times a
day and loved the minty aroma.  I felt better immediately.  I cut back from
almost a pack a day to  about 6. " 
 Sandra J.  Denver, Co.

   In each study done in China, over 90% of the people who used the
product consistently, were able to either stop  entirely or cut back to only 2-3
cigarettes a day in 2 weeks.  After 2 months,  80% had quit entirely and
the rest were smoking only 5 a day.

   You too can quit easily with this new product.  It is so simple and
easy to use.

   THIS UNIQUE PRODUCT IS NOT AVAILABLE IN STORES.
   SMOKER'S HERBAL AROMA IS AVAILABLE FOR ONLY $35.00

 You can order this amazing product by calling (303)494-8455 or by fax
(303)499-7398, or email delray4@juno.com, or by mail to Delray Co., 4335

Butler Circle,  Boulder, Co. 80303.  Please include the following
information:

NAME:_________________________________________________________
ADDRESS:_____________________________________________________
CITY;_______________________________________________________
STATE;-____________    ZIP:____________ PHONE:_______________________
PAYMENT BY____VISA      ____MASTERCARD     ____CHECK
CARD NUMBER_____________________________________
EXP. DATE______________________________
QTY.____@ $35.00
SUB-TOTAL_______________
SHIPPING  $3.50 (add $1.00 for each additional bottle)______________
TAX (for Colorado residents only add $2.10 per bottle)____________
TOTAL :_________________

ORDERS ARE SHIPPED WITHIN 3 DAYS  BY PRIORITY MAIL






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 54689590@hotmail.com
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 21:22:47 -0800 (PST)
To: URFRIEND@myplace.com
Subject: FREE SOFTWARE !!!
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


FREE SOFTWARE! BULK EMAIL TOOLS!

ALL YOU NEED FOR SENDING BULK E-MAIL & PROMOTING:

Hi my name is Jennifer, 

I have been searching for promotional tips for all my down line members.  Mostly, this centered
around ways to promote using bulk email responsibly.  I have finally come upon a site and 
service that provides all we need:

http://www.ezine-info.com  USE ID# 1363

Keep trying if sites are busy-it's worth it.

Check it out for yourself:

Bulk e-mail software:  E-MAIL BLASTER PLATINUM

FREE E-MAIL addresses to download-lots of 'em-FRESH 100,000's

All  sorts  of  other  tips  and  Free  software

Learn how to bulk e-mail responsibly

If  you  sign-up,  please  use  my  ID#   1363

It  is  the  best  I  have  found.

Thank you for your time.  

If you wish to be removed from *this* mailing list, please hit reply and type "REMOVE" in 
the SUBJECT field ( not the body ). Our servers will automatically remove you from
our list within 24hrs!  THANKYOU





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Sandy Sandfort 
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 23:11:04 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks-announce@toad.com
Subject: COSTUME BALL
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                          SANDY SANDFORT
 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Cypherpunks,

It's that time again.  My next gala costume ball is March 14th.
You are invited.  The full invitation is at:

		http://www.c2.net/~sandy/98mar.htm

Please read the invitation carefully.  The devil is always in the
details.

This notice is being sent via the Cypherpunks Announce List.  If
you don't want to be on the list, DON'T e-mail me.  I can't get
you off the list.  To get off the list, send e-mail to:

		majordomo@toad.com

As the first line of the message, write:

		unsubscribe cypherpunks-announce

Hope to see you on the 14th.

Regards,


 S a n d y

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 96866514@mci.net
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 21:37:49 -0800 (PST)
To: Members@aol.com
Subject: Expose your Website or Business To Millions With Stealth !!!!
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





Bulk Email Programs
6 Major Programs On ONE CD ONLY $600.00 !!!!!!!

All these programs together will cost of over $1600.00 at retail price and are available until 02/28/98 for this price.


Please keep in mind that none of these programs are demos they are full version programs.



STEALTH MASS MAILER (FULL VERSION)
SEND BULK EMAIL AT THE RATE OF 200,000/HOUR ( Retail $399.00 )

TURBO EMAIL LIST MANAGER
POWERFUL EMAIL DATABASE LIST MANAGER  (Retail 299.00)

HURRICANE EMAIL ADDRESS COLLECTOR
COLLECTS TARGETED EMAIL ADDRESSES FROM WEB SITES (Retail $295.00 )

GEO SNAKE
COLLECTS TARGETED EMAIL ADDRESSES BASED ON CITY/STATE
(Retail $199.00)

NEWS SLEUTH
COLLECTS TARGETED EMAIL ADDRESSES FROM NEWSGROUP POSTS 
(Retail $295.00 )


EMAIL PRO
EMAIL ADDRESS LIST MANAGER ( Retail $195.00 )


YOU GET ALL 6 PROGRAMS ON CD FOR ONLY $600


TO ORDER PLEASE CALL (213)757-9032 FOR COMPLETE ORDERING DETAILS.epartment at (213) 757-9032 For orders for next day delivery please add $15.00 to your order and priority mail please add $3.00 to your order.

If you are interested in becomming a vendor for our software please email us at Infosupport@juno.com for complete details.


 Remove Here 




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To: x2see4uooh@aol.com
Message-ID: <299703123654.GGA18155@blahblahblah.com>
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 98 18:49:17 EST
Subject:#1 Bulk Email Software(Advertise To Millions Free)
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Subject: #Advertise Your Business To Millions By Email With R.A.F.)
 






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Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 01:40:02 -0400 (EDT)
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Subject: #1 Advertise Your Business To Millions By Email With R.A.F)                                                       


                           
  



                                           






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From: 1112_man@thecard.com
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 02:47:23 PST
Subject: #1 Advertise Your Business To Millions By Email With R.A.F)








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 55459456@msn.com
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 03:52:03 -0800 (PST)
To: Members@aol.com
Subject: Advertise Your Business To MIllions With Direct Email Marketing !!!
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Bulk Email Programs
6 Major Programs On ONE CD ONLY $600.00 !!!!!!!

All these programs together will cost of over $1600.00 at retail price and are available until 02/28/98 for this price.


Please keep in mind that none of these programs are demos they are full version programs.



STEALTH MASS MAILER (FULL VERSION)
SEND BULK EMAIL AT THE RATE OF 200,000/HOUR ( Retail $399.00 )

TURBO EMAIL LIST MANAGER
POWERFUL EMAIL DATABASE LIST MANAGER  (Retail 299.00)

HURRICANE EMAIL ADDRESS COLLECTOR
COLLECTS TARGETED EMAIL ADDRESSES FROM WEB SITES (Retail $295.00 )

GEO SNAKE
COLLECTS TARGETED EMAIL ADDRESSES BASED ON CITY/STATE
(Retail $199.00)

NEWS SLEUTH
COLLECTS TARGETED EMAIL ADDRESSES FROM NEWSGROUP POSTS 
(Retail $295.00 )


EMAIL PRO
EMAIL ADDRESS LIST MANAGER ( Retail $195.00 )


YOU GET ALL 6 PROGRAMS ON CD FOR ONLY $600


TO ORDER PLEASE CALL (213)757-9032 FOR COMPLETE ORDERING DETAILS.epartment at (213) 757-9032 For orders for next day delivery please add $15.00 to your order and priority mail please add $3.00 to your order.

If you are interested in becomming a vendor for our software please email us at Support26@juno.com for complete details.


 Remove Here 




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To: x2see4uooh@aol.com
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Date: Sat, 10 Jan 98 18:49:17 EST
Subject:#1 Bulk Email Software(Advertise To Millions Free)
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Subject: #1 Advertise Your Business To Millions By Email With R.A.F)                                                       


                           
  



                                           






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Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 02:47:23 PST
Subject: #1 Advertise Your Business To Millions By Email With R.A.F)










From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: rdshea@12291.com
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 05:02:51 -0800 (PST)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: This is your NEW HOUSE,  or BOAT, or ROLLS ROYCE
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



This is your NEW HOUSE,  or BOAT, or ROLLS ROYCE
THIS CAN BE YOUR BEST OF DREAMS......TRY IT!



THIS MAY BE THE MOST SIGNIFICANT LETTER 
                                      YOU WILL RECEIVE THIS YEAR!!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
***Please,... Follow The Instructions Of This  Letter Very Carefully.       Immediately Make  A Copy,  And Read It Twice.*** 

Subject: It's Only a Game, But You Win Big Money!

Greetings, 

Hopefully my name is still on the list below. I am a retired
attorney, and about two years ago a man came to me with a letter. The
letter he brought me is basically the same as the letter in front of you
now. He asked me to verify the fact that this letter was legal. I told him
that I would review it and get back to him. When I first read the letter I
thought it was some off-the-wall idea to make money. A week later I
met again with my client to discuss the issue. I told him that the letter 
originally brought to me was not 100% legal. My client asked me to
alter the letter to make it 100% legal. I advised him to make a small 
change in the letter and it would be alright.
I was curious about the letter, so he told me how it works. I thought it
was a long shot, so I decided against participating. Before my client
left, I asked him to keep me updated as to his results. About two 
months later he called to tell me that he had received over $800,000
in cash! I didn't believe him so he asked me to try the plan and see 
for myself. I thought about it for a couple of days and decided that 
there was not much to lose. I followed the instructions exactly and 
mailed out 200 letters. Sure enough, the money started coming! 
It came slowly at first, but after three weeks I was getting more 
than I could open in a day. After about three months the money 
stopped coming. I kept a precise record of my earnings and at the
end it totaled $868,439.00.

I was earning a good living as a lawyer, but as anyone in the legal
profession will tell you, there is a lot of stress that comes with the
job. I told myself if things worked out I would retire from practice and
play golf. I decided to try the letter again, but this time I sent 500
letters out. Well, three months later I had totaled $2,344,178.00!!! I
just couldn't believe it. I met my old client for lunch to find out how
this exactly works. He told me that there were a few similar letters 
going around. What made this one different is the fact that there are
six names on the letter, not five like most others. That fact alone
resulted in far more returns. The other factor was the advice I gave
him in making sure the whole thing was perfectly legal, since no one
wants to risk doing anything illegal.
                               
I bet by now you are curious about what little change I told him to
make. Well, if you send a letter like this out, to be legal, you must sell
something if you expect to receive a dollar. I told him that anyone
sending a dollar out must receive something in return. So when you 
send a dollar to each of the six names on the list, you must include a 
slip of paper saying, "Please put me on your mailing list" and include 
your name, mailing address, and email address. (Your phone # is optional).
This is the key to the program! The item you will receive for a dollar you 
send to the six names below, is this letter and the right to earn thousands. 
We will be working together to improve each others lives!

Follow the simple instructions below exactly, and in less than three
months you will receive over $800,000.00 GUARANTEED!!!!!!

A)  Immediately send $1.00 to each of the six people on the list below.
Wrap the dollar in a note (type written or handwritten) saying
"Please add me to your mailing list" and include your name, 
mailing address, and email address. Your phone number is optional:

1) Anthony Thomas  8150 East Hildale St.  Detroit, MI  48234
2) Claudia Stephan PO Box 1819 Carmichael, CA 95609
3) Anita Volsh PO Box 2408 Fair Oaks, CA 95628
4) Nadia Segun PO Box 1357 Rancho Cordova, CA 95741
5) Lidia Zoring  3500 Data dr. # 147 Rancho Cordova, CA 95670
6) James Thomas 11329 S Peoria St. Chicago, IL 60643


B) Remove the name next to #1 on the list and move the rest of the names
up one position. Then place your name in the #6 spot. This is best done by
typing a new list and taping or gluing it over the old one. Or by saving
this to a text file and editing it yourself and saving the new edited 
copy.

C) When you have completed the above instructions, you have an option
of mailing your new letter out in two ways: 1) Through the U.S. Postal
Service or 2) through e-mail. This letter has been proven perfectly legal
for both ways as long as you follow the above instructions, because you're
purchasing membership in an exclusive mailing list . To mail this 
out over the internet, you can browse through areas and find people to 
send  this to all the time. All you have to do is cut and paste email addresses 
wherever you are on the Internet. Remember, it doesn't cost anything to 
mail on the Internet. Or you can get a Mass Mail Network to mail it
out in large volumes for you.                         

2


One that we recommend is:
Cyber Mail ($15 / 200 names) ($25 / 500 names) ($50 / 1,500 names) 
16500 North Park Dr.
Suite 413
Southfield, MI  48075
(248) 557-7778

Either way will bring big payoffs. If you 
are going to use the traditional U.S. Postal Service to do this program, 
you will want to order a minimum 200 names from a mailing list company. 
Two that have been most effective for these lists are: 

***Be sure to ask for "Opportunity Seekers" and request a list less
      than 30 days old***

S.E. Ring Mailing List ($26 / 200 names)
P.O Box 15061
Ft. Lauderdale, FL 33318 (954) 742-9519

Advon Distributors ($28 / 200 names)
P.O. Box B-11
Shelly, ID 83274 (800) 992-3866

***Keep in mind- there is no limit to the amount of names you can send 
      out.  The more names you send, the more money you'll make.
      We strongly encourage you to mail this letter to family, friends and 
      relatives as well.*** 
     

D) When your mailing list arrives, place one label on a stamped
envelope and drop it in the mail box (Be sure to send out at least 200). 
Within 90 days, you will receive over $800,000. 

E)  Keep a copy of this letter and all the names you receive. Mail it out 
again in about 6 months. But mail it to the addresses you received with 
each dollar. It will work again, only much better.

THIS IS A SERVICE AND IS 100% LEGAL !
(Refer to title 18, Section 1302 & 1342 of the U.S. Postal and Lottery 
Laws)

3                                                           
                                                          

Assume for example you get a 7.5% return rate, which is very conservative.
My first attempt was about 9.5% and my second time was over 11%.

1) When you mail out 200 letters, 15 people will send you $1.00.
2) Those 15 mail out 200 letters, and 225 people will send you $1.00
3) Those 225 mail out 200 letters, and 3,375 people will send you $1.00
4) Those 3,375 mail out 200 letters, and 50,625 people will send you $1.00
5) Those 50,625 mail out 200 letters, and 759,375 people will send you $1.00 

At this point your name drops off the list,
but so far you have received $813,615.00!!!!!

It works every time, but how well depends on how many letters you send
out. In the example above, you mailed out 200 letters, if you mailed out 500
letters, you would have received $2,006,917!! Check the math yourself,
I want you to, but I guarantee it is correct! With this kind of return,
you've got to try it. Try it once and you will do it again!!!

Just make sure you send a dollar to each of the six names on the list with
a note to be added to their mailing list. Together we will all prosper!!!!

PS  You've read this far, so let me ask you one simple question:

Q.                      What do you have to lose??
A.                       Only $ 6.00 

What you can gain is an income, like the example in this letter.
Small Risk, Small Expense, HUGE Potential Return!!!
What do you have to loose?
I invite you to join our mailing list today!!!

Don't throw this away. Keep it, think about it, and in several months you will try it!


I looked at it for over two months and then I said "it's only $6" I have to be nuts not to try it.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: jo.dfr.567a@msn.com
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 08:55:23 -0800 (PST)
To: sq9.vbc3e5z@msn.com
Subject: 68 Million Email Addresses - $99
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


          68 MILLION
 EMAIL ADDRESSES
 FOR ONLY $99 
       

 You want to make some money? 

 I can put you in touch with over 60 million people at virtualy no cost.

 Can you make one cent from each of theses names?

If you can you have a profit of over $600,000.00 

This offer is not for everyone. 

If you can not see the just how excellent the
 risk / reward ratio in this offer is then there is nothing I can do for you. 

To make money you must stop dreaming and TAKE ACTION.


****************************************

PACKAGE  A

68,000,000 email addresses on CD

These name are all in text files

ready to mail!!!

$99.00

****************************************

PACKAGE B

68,000,000 email addresses on CD

These name are all in text files

ready to mail!!!       AND

15 Different Bulk email programs 

and tools  to help with your mailings

and list managment.

$ 139.00

****************************************

PACKAGE  C

THE WORKS

68,000,000 email addresses on CD

These name are all in text files

ready to mail!!!       AND

15 Different Bulk email programs 

and tools  to help with your mailings

and list managment.

             AND 

Over 500 diferent Business Reports

now being sold on the internet for up to

$100 each. You get full rights to resell these reports.

With this package you get the email addresses, 

the software to mail them AND ready to sell  information products.

AND ...... 

. a collection of the 100 best money making

adds currently floating around on the internet.

$ 189

****************************************

SEVERAL WAYS TO ORDER !!!

IF YOU ORDER BY PHONE WE WILL SHIP YOUR CD CONTAINING THE 68 MILLION + NAMES WITHIN 12 HOURS OF YOUR ORDER!!!

 
  1) WE ACCEPT:  AMERICAN EXPRESS OR
    
                               VISA <> MASTERCARD
 
     TYPE OF CARD  AMX / VISA / MC??_______________

      EXPIRATION DATE   ___________________________
 
     NAME ON CREDIT CARD________________________
 
     CREDIT CARD #________________________________
 
     BILLING ADDRESS ____________________________
 
     CITY_________________________________________
 
    STATE________________ZIP_____________________
 
   PHONE INCLUDE AREA CODE___________________
   
    EMAIL ADDRESS______________________________ 

        WE WILL BILL selected amount to your account plus the following shipping costs

        SHIPPING  COST OF 3.85 FIRST CLASS MAIL

        SHIPPING COST OF  15.00  24 HOUR EXPRESS MAIL /  FEDERAL EXPRESS
 
        SALES TAX (7.25%) added to CA residents 
 
  >>> Send correct amount in cash, check or money

order to:

  >>> ELECTRIC EMAIL
  >>> 702 Mangrove Avenue, Suite 151
  >>> Chico, CA 95926


  2) Send the same above requested credit card 

information to above address. 


   3) Fax the same above credit card information to 530-895-

8470

   4) Call phone # 530-876-4291.  This is a 24 hour phone 

number to place a CREDIT CARD order.

   5) FAX A COPY of your signed check to 530-895-8470.

       This is an EXCELLENT way to order without a credit card!



Electric Email is a private company and is not affiliated with, or endorsed by, AOL, MSN, or any other Internet Service Provider.

Copyright 1998

All rights reserved

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging the freedom of speech 
or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.         
    
Amendment I, The US Constitution                                                                :-)





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: qwlkty89z@xpc.xpoint.co
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 14:37:27 -0800 (PST)
To: kajd3847jclz@www.longnet.com.au
Subject: 68 Million Email Addresses - $99
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


          68 MILLION
 EMAIL ADDRESSES
 FOR ONLY $99 
       

 You want to make some money? 

 I can put you in touch with over 60 million people at virtualy no cost.

 Can you make one cent from each of theses names?

If you can you have a profit of over $600,000.00 

This offer is not for everyone. 

If you can not see the just how excellent the
 risk / reward ratio in this offer is then there is nothing I can do for you. 

To make money you must stop dreaming and TAKE ACTION.


****************************************

PACKAGE  A

68,000,000 email addresses on CD

These name are all in text files

ready to mail!!!

$99.00

****************************************

PACKAGE B

68,000,000 email addresses on CD

These name are all in text files

ready to mail!!!       AND

15 Different Bulk email programs 

and tools  to help with your mailings

and list managment.

$ 139.00

****************************************

PACKAGE  C

THE WORKS

68,000,000 email addresses on CD

These name are all in text files

ready to mail!!!       AND

15 Different Bulk email programs 

and tools  to help with your mailings

and list managment.

             AND 

Over 500 diferent Business Reports

now being sold on the internet for up to

$100 each. You get full rights to resell these reports.

With this package you get the email addresses, 

the software to mail them AND ready to sell  information products.

AND ...... 

. a collection of the 100 best money making

adds currently floating around on the internet.

$ 189

****************************************

SEVERAL WAYS TO ORDER !!!

IF YOU ORDER BY PHONE WE WILL SHIP YOUR CD CONTAINING THE 68 MILLION + NAMES WITHIN 12 HOURS OF YOUR ORDER!!!

 
  1) WE ACCEPT:  AMERICAN EXPRESS OR
    
                               VISA <> MASTERCARD
 
     TYPE OF CARD  AMX / VISA / MC??_______________

      EXPIRATION DATE   ___________________________
 
     NAME ON CREDIT CARD________________________
 
     CREDIT CARD #________________________________
 
     BILLING ADDRESS ____________________________
 
     CITY_________________________________________
 
    STATE________________ZIP_____________________
 
   PHONE INCLUDE AREA CODE___________________
   
    EMAIL ADDRESS______________________________ 

        WE WILL BILL selected amount to your account plus the following shipping costs

        SHIPPING  COST OF 3.85 FIRST CLASS MAIL

        SHIPPING COST OF  15.00  24 HOUR EXPRESS MAIL /  FEDERAL EXPRESS
 
        SALES TAX (7.25%) added to CA residents 
 
  >>> Send correct amount in cash, check or money

order to:

  >>> ELECTRIC EMAIL
  >>> 702 Mangrove Avenue, Suite 151
  >>> Chico, CA 95926


  2) Send the same above requested credit card 

information to above address. 


   3) Fax the same above credit card information to 530-895-

8470

   4) Call phone # 530-876-4291.  This is a 24 hour phone 

number to place a CREDIT CARD order.

   5) FAX A COPY of your signed check to 530-895-8470.

       This is an EXCELLENT way to order without a credit card!



Electric Email is a private company and is not affiliated with, or endorsed by, AOL, MSN, or any other Internet Service Provider.

Copyright 1998

All rights reserved

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging the freedom of speech 
or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.         
    
Amendment I, The US Constitution                                                                :-)





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: thecompanyprez@a-vip.com
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 23:38:31 -0800 (PST)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: 9 out of 10 Americans are owed an average of $1,200.00 each!
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


There is over 400 BILLION DOLLARS in unclaimed and 
lost money in North America and we want to help people 
get their money back! 

In a continuing effort to inform the public of this money, 
Personal Funds Recovery, Inc. is launching an INFOMERCIAL
to air across North America. This INFOMERCIAL will educate millions 
of viewers about the over 400 BILLION DOLLARS that needs to be 
returned to it's rightful owners.
 
We are looking for 300 INDEPENDENT AGENTS who will become 
a part of this campaign. Each Agent will own an exclusive territory 
and will receive a percentage of every lead generated from the national 
informercial!  Your involvement will be very financially rewarding.  

Visit our website at  
to find out more about the opportunity and how you can get involved.



********************************
If you wish to be removed
please hit REPLY
and type REMOVE in the
subject line and your 
request will be honored
immediately.
********************************








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: thecompanyprez@a-vip.com
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 20:09:17 -0800 (PST)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: 9 out of 10 Americans are owed an average of $1,200.00 each!
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


There is over 400 BILLION DOLLARS in unclaimed and 
lost money in North America and we want to help people 
get their money back! 

In a continuing effort to inform the public of this money, 
Personal Funds Recovery, Inc. is launching an INFOMERCIAL
to air across North America. This INFOMERCIAL will educate millions 
of viewers about the over 400 BILLION DOLLARS that needs to be 
returned to it's rightful owners.
 
We are looking for 300 INDEPENDENT AGENTS who will become 
a part of this campaign. Each Agent will own an exclusive territory 
and will receive a percentage of every lead generated from the national 
informercial!  Your involvement will be very financially rewarding.  

Visit our website at  
to find out more about the opportunity and how you can get involved.



********************************
If you wish to be removed
please hit REPLY
and type REMOVE in the
subject line and your 
request will be honored
immediately.
********************************








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: owner-cypherpunks
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 22:26:16 -0800 (PST)
To: youanfme@aol.com
Subject: Cold Drinks Taste Better!!!
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Cold Drinks Taste Better!  (You gotta see this)
 CLICK HERE NOW!!  


CoolBird keeps your favorite beverage COLD for HOURS.  Make your last sip your coldest with CoolBird!

**Perfect for --Birthdays
                  --Father's Day
                  --picnics
                  --BBQ's
                  --Bosses
                  --Lunches
                  --Trips
                  --Work
Great for anywhere and anytime!!!!
 CLICK HERE NOW!!   






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: adcp545@juno.com
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 16:11:18 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: ------->DEBT CONSOLIDATION LOAN PROGRAM <--------
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Dear cypherpunks@toad.com,

   Debt Consolidation Loan Program

   Consolidate all your unsecured debts into one low monthly payment regardless of past credit. In most cases your monthly bills can be cut by as much as 50%. There is no credit check needed and no need to own your own home. Consolidate all those high interest accounts and save......

   Must have more than $1,000 in debt to consolidate. For complete information on our financial services HIT REPLY.

or send S.A.S.E. and email address to:

Internet Financial Services, Inc.
P.O. Box 1665
Peoria, IL. 61656

***FREE $10.00 CALLING CARD SENT TO EVERYBODY THAT REQUESTS MORE INFORMATION AND VISITS OUR WEB SITE.


----------------------- Headers --------------------------------
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Date: Fri, 20 Mar 98 09:01:04 EST
To: profit@marketitz.com
Subject: Debt Consolidation Loans Program
Message-ID: <<57988360128 HGI@marketitz.com>>
X-PMFLAGS: 48663992 9
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Comments: Authenticated sender is 






Subject: Re: Reno and Freeh talking about Crypto and "Terrorism"
Message-ID: <199804010619.AAA02675@frost.snowhill.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 09:45 PM 3/31/98 -0500, Frederick Burroughs wrote:
>Obviously the Justice Dept. requires a few big busts involving crypto.
>The case should be one in which the perpetrators attempt to cover their
>misdeeds behind strong crypto. An informant will be needed to allow
>"plausible deniability". That is, Justice will say, "If not for the
>informant, we would have never been able to access the encrypted
>evidence.  We can't depend on informants, we need better access." The
>crime should resonate abhorrent  with the public, child prostitution
>ring, illegal dumping of hazardous waste, securities fraud against
>retirees, something that will generate a lot of letters to Congress. In
>the light of these pending realities, Congress will be all too willing
>to give out keys to the backdoor.
  
Don't forget the more obvious: an "impending terrorist attack by crazed gun 
owners who are outraged by reasonable restrictions on firearms."
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 02:33:55 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: What's up in SASEBO, or Don't Tug The Beard
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980405112845.007c1990@otc.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




>From: "George Martin" 
>To: "honig@otc.net" 
>Date: Sat, 04 Apr 98 22:25:07 +0900
>Reply-To: "George D. Martin" 
>Priority: Normal
>X-Mailer: PMMail 1.95a For OS/2
>Subject: 
>
>>4)From: David Honig 
>>Subject: Illegal export of pgp.zip by .mil
>	
>>http://braggbbs.bragg.army.mil/libs/utils.htm
>>has a link to ftp://bbs.bragg.army.mil/library/utils/pgp262.zip
>
>>Someone (from Europe, ideally) should clue these people
>>in.  Maybe cc the media.  
>
>Maybe you should've checked out the url to see if it was
>valid before you shot your mouth off in public... The file
>was removed quite a few months ago and was never download
>by anyone outside of the .mil domain.  Take your
>troublemaking somewhere else.

I of course informed him that he was mininformed or uninformed.


honig@alum.mit.edu
------------------
"Are we going after their tax returns?  I can only hope that we are,
frankly, doing a little persecuting" ---Nixon to Erlichman,
on tax audits of wealthy Jewish contributors to the Democrats.
	-LA Times 1.4.98





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jan 
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 17:59:58 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Fortify for Nestcape Communicator v4.05
Message-ID: <35236BB3.14449BF0@kki.net.pl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Greetings,

Does anyone know where I could find Fortify for Netscape Communicator
v4.05? I've been to www.fortify.net and that didn't work.

Jan




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jonathan Wienke 
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 04:00:59 +0800
To: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home)
Subject: Re: April 26 column -- Swiss militia
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980418122207.02f35a30@popd.netcruiser>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980418143227.006cdde0@popd.netcruiser>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

At 03:36 PM 4/18/98 -0500, Igor Chudov @ home wrote:

[snip]

>My impression was that, aside from guns, Switzerland is not such a free
>country, with myriads of local laws restricting every fathomable activity.

I have never been to Switzerland.

>> ObGunStuffPlug:
>> I just got a catalog from Cheaper Than Dirt!, which has an impressive
array
>> of gun accessories, ammo, and survival equipment for excellent prices. 
A
>> few examples:
>> 
>> Bushnell 4-12x40 scope			$59.97	I love mine!
>
>They are used, actually, but very good.

You are correct on both counts, although the only way I could tell mine
wasn't new was a couple of nicks in the adjustment screw caps.  My MAK-90
looks much more impressive now...
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Business Security 5.5

iQA/AwUBNTkb6cJF0kXqpw3MEQIc8gCeJaNL5T18Fclh2B4NAQRE699t9WUAoNYn
xHz8Mzs6PGPgq6HFjdFgvzHM
=hLlN
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


Jonathan Wienke

PGP Key Fingerprints:
7484 2FB7 7588 ACD1  3A8F 778A 7407 2928
3312 6597 8258 9A9E D9FA  4878 C245 D245 EAA7 0DCC

Proud to be a charter member of the vast right-wing conspiracy!

RSA export-o-matic:
print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<>
)]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 16:25:35 +0800
To: JonWienk@ix.netcom.com
Subject: Re: Position escrow
In-Reply-To: <199804212208.PAA22084@servo.qualcomm.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



>Regardless of the type of phone, the cell stations can be designed to do
>time-of-arrival comparisons on the signal transmitted from the phone and
>calculate a reasonably accurate position.  If you don't want your location
>known, don't transmit.

Ultimately, this is true. But there's still a practical difference
between having to do it with a labor-intensive manual process like
"foxhunting" and making it automatic and routine on a large scale.

Phil




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 04:17:16 +0800
To: Cypherpunks Lite 
Subject: SHIFT REGISTER technology
Message-ID: <199805051757.KAA23788@modmult.starium.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Friday 4/24/98 7:33 AM

John Young
J Orlin Grabbe
John Gilmore

The stuff on linear and non-linear shift register sequences which is now
appearing on jya.com is the 'military-grade' crypto technology.

Semionoff and http://www.jya.com/crack-a5.htm contains material similar
to 
what I saw Brian Snow present in schematics of NSA KG units.

The statement by david.loos@eudoramail.com

  The A5 algorithm uses a three level, non-linear feedback shift
  register arrangement, designed to be sufficiently complex to resist
  attack.

points to the technology used for military-grade crypto.

The reason NSA regarded the R register, seen at
http://jya.com/whpfiles.htm,
feedback function classified was that it contained a non-linear feedback
function.  

I was ORDERED to build UNCLASSIFIED hardware.  This is why I stuck the R
register
feedback function in a fast ram.

This similarity between the structure of the nonlinear feedback function
in the 
CAVE algorithm seen at 

  http://www.semionoff.com/cellular/hacking/phreaking/

to the feedback function published in my SAND report

: A11   A1 A5 AND
        A1 0= A9 0= AND XOR
        A6 A10 XOR XOR ;

reveals  "military-strength" technology.  

SHIFT REGISTERS.

Words 'shift registers' also caused the Great American Spy Sting bust.

        http://caq.com/CAQ/caq63/caq63madsen.html


The Cold War is over.  And the crypto cat is now about fully out of the
bag.

Let's hope for settlement so that we can all go on to more constructive
tasks.

Later
bill





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 16:39:17 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Political Test
Message-ID: <199804010039.CAA10566@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


THE SACREDBULL BASIC ENGLISH AND MATH TEST FOR FEDERAL POLITICIANS

SECTION I: Competency in English

1. The phrase, "Congress shall make no law..." means
a. Congress shall make no law...
b. Congress shall make some laws...
c. Americans can do anything they want, except things my colleagues and I,
or our largest contributors, personally dislike.
d. Congress can do anything it damn well pleases, starting with stacking the
courts with our toadies.

2. What is the correct interpretation of the phrase "...the right of the
people...shall not be infringed"?
a. The right of the people...shall not be infringed.
b. The right of the people...shall be infringed, but only gradually,
moderately and for the good of children and battered women (except the ones
we batter).
c. The right of the people is actually a state's right and the states are a
bunch of wusses who'll put up with anything as long as we offer them enough
tax-funded loot in return for selling out their citizens.
d. The people are all sitting on their butts watching TV, so we can infringe
any damn thing we feel like infringing, and we'll get the media to screw you
if you think otherwise.

3. What is the meaning of the phrase, "The powers ... are reserved to the
states, or to the people..."
a. The powers...are reserved to the states, or to the people...
b. The interstate commerce clause gives us the authority to do anything.
Therefore there are no other powers left to reserve for those other twits.
Too bad for them.
c. Where'd you get a stupid idea like that? We're more powerful and have
bigger guns than they do, and that's all that really matters, isn't it?
d. Hahahahahahahahahaha!

4. Essay Question: Write a bill (a proposed law, you twit) in plain English,
for once. We just want to see if you can do it. Extra credit if it's
constitutional or can be read and understood in less than ten minutes by a
high school student of average intelligence.

SECTION II: Competency in Mathematics

1. A fugitive oil baron named Roger gives $300,000 to the Democratic
National Committee for the specific purpose of gaining "access" to the
president. For that, he is given six invitations to the White House, but
does not get the pipeline he wanted. How much money should Roger give to the
DNC next time?
a. Nothing. People shouldn't be able to bribe their way into the presence of
public officials.
b. This is a trick question. Next time, a Republican president might be in
office, and Roger should give his money to the RNC, instead.
c. I know the president. If Roger gives me the money, I'll give Roger
access. Heck, I'll even throw in some hot babes, since Roger said the babes
at the White House were too busy stroking Clinton to pay any attention to
him.
d. $600,000. (Roger's answer, in testimony before Congress 9/18/97.)

2. According to the administration's own projections, Americans will soon
face an 82 percent income tax rate if present entitlement programs and
levels of federal growth persist. How many years before American citizens
rise up in rebellion?
a. Americans should never be driven to that kind of desperation. We should
immediately begin rolling the federal government back to constitutional
levels.
b. Don't worry, we're going to reform the tax system and, as Rep. Mitch
McConnell says, "virtually abolish the IRS as we know it"; we'll just have
an 82 percent national sales tax, instead.
c. As soon as my term in office is over and I can get an oceanside place in
Costa Rica, complete with Uzi-toting bodyguards.
d. What do we care? We'll just let Janet burn the little jerks and claim
they committed suicide.

3. The federal budget is...oh...some great big figure in the gazillions. The
national debt is probably about five trillion dollars, give or take. The
annual deficit is, you know, billions and billions and billions (not
counting off-budget stuff like Amtrak and the Post Office). Budgets for
Social Security and Medicare are increasing at some really wowie-zow of a
percent every year. (Not like you care what the actual figures are, anyway.)
Congress and the president have just cooked up a tax cut package filled with
goodies for favored special interests. Please explain how you can claim the
budget will be balanced by 2002.
a. We can't do it without extreme cutbacks in government. Anybody who says
we can is lying like a congressman.
b. Revenues will...uh...yeah...revenues will increase because of all those
tax breaks and...uh...the economy will be just perfect forever and ever
and...uh...maybe some plague or something will come along and kill off all
those money-sucking old folks...or something like that, maybe.
c. The media said it's true, didn't they? What more proof do you want?
d. Hey, that's for the suckers who are here in 2002 to figure out. I'll be
in Costa Rica by then.
e. Well, actually, now that I think about it, I'll be in some other country
with an army so they can fight off the U.S. troops who will be sent to take
my loot like they did Noriega's. Like, hey, I stole mine fair and square!

Correct answers: B, C, D and E (From the politicians' point of view, that
is. Hey, you know, whatever we can get away with while the folks are
watching TV...)

Correct answer, in reality: L-E-A-D T-H-E-R-A-P-Y


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
----- (c) 1997 Charles Curley and Claire Wolfe. Permission to reprint freely
granted
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----


Return to Index to Writings of Claire Wolfe

Return to Liberty Activist






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 21:33:59 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: many most important point
Message-ID: <199804010533.HAA17912@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



What are many most important point
upon develop encryption software?

        





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 21:35:04 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: many most important point2
Message-ID: <199804010534.HAA18141@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



What are many most important point
upon design block cypher algorithm?


        





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 21:38:16 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: secure design of key schedle
Message-ID: <199804010538.HAA18903@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Show me secure design of key schedle.

        





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 22:05:29 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Fwd: PRESS RELEASE - Internet Security Issue
Message-ID: <199804010605.IAA23463@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Hedges 


>Veil.net is not a strong anonymity provider, they're a trusted third party
>using a slightly hacked popmail and sendmail server. They say "since we do
>not even know who you are, your privacy is safely intact." This is false,
>since they can access IP numbers of connection attempts.


I make a point of checking the individuals and companies involved in
various enterprises claiming to be the paranoid's best friend, as well
as checking their links and assorted tentacles.
The first thing I noticed about veil's anonymity site was that they don't
seem very proud of who they are and their company's background, since
they don't provide any information of that nature.
Combining that fact with the fact that they seem to be giving out 
blatantly false information regarding the anonymity of their users,
I would assume that their purpose is far from what they claim.

SpookMonger





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bruce Schneier 
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 06:23:56 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: 3DES Weakness
In-Reply-To: <199804010054.QAA07423@comsec.com>
Message-ID: <199804011423.IAA16093@mixer.visi.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


The NYT article is way overblown; the attack is only
against the particular mode in the standard and requires
something like 2^64 texts.  It's great work, but not a
very practical attack.

At 07:44 AM 3/31/98 -0500, John Young wrote:
>NYT-Markoff reports today on Biham and Knudsen's paper
>on 3DES weakness, "Cryptanalysis of the ANSI X9.52 
>CBCM Mode," noted here a few days ago.
>
>The ANSI X9.F1 committee has held up implementing its
>standard as a result, and may have to wait for AES. 
>Credit is given to the worldwide DES crack.
>
>   http://www.nytimes.com
>
>See a mirror:
>
>   http://jya.com/3des-weak.htm
>
>Get the Biham/Knudsen paper:
>
>  http://www.cs.technion.ac.il/%7Ebiham/publications.html
> 
**********************************************************************
Bruce Schneier, President, Counterpane Systems     Phone: 612-823-1098
101 E Minnehaha Parkway, Minneapolis,MN  55419       Fax: 612-823-1590
                                            http://www.counterpane.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Toto" 
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 12:23:47 -0800 (PST)
To: "CypherPunks" 
Subject: Practicing for 'saving' America?
Message-ID: <027901bd5dbc$8fcaa860$7679a58e@uymfdlvk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



   They had bodies. Bodies of these men's brothers, crew members from the
helicopter or Delta soldiers, it was hard to tell from the angles and
distances of the camera shots. They were dragging a body through the street
at the end of a rope, kicking and poking at the lifeless form. It was ugly
and savage, and the men went back out to the hangar and cleaned their
weapons and waited for orders that would send them back out.

   Delta Sgt. Paul Howe was ready. If he was going back out, he was going to
kill as many Somalis as he could. He'd had enough. No more rules of
engagement, no more toeing some abstract moral line. He was going to cut a
gruesome path through these people.
http://www3.phillynews.com/packages/somalia/dec12/default12.asp

And what happens if we, as citizens, resist the assault of minimally trained
local and regional law enforcement agencies operating with massive firepower
donated to them by the federal government, and acting under the direction of
local government figures who have personal agendas and local political axes
to grind?
We have already seen the future of law enforcement in the travesties that
have already occurred in our cites and towns as a result of the mythical War
On Drugs. There is a remarkable parallel in our sending troops into both
Somolian and American cities to 'protect the people' from WarLords and
DrugLords. In both cases, the Lords die of old age while our self-proclaimed
protectors "cut a gruesome path" through the Peasants.

In the early 80's, as I watched the helicopters touch down in the
Ettersburg, California schoolyard and heavily armed men in camoflage piling
out in full view of the children, I had an uneasy feeling that what I was
observing went far beyond the stated objective of CAMP (Campaign Against
Marihuana Production).
After observing the armed assault against mostly happy-hippies living in the
hills for some period of time, I eventually realized that the true objective
of CAMP was to promote cooperation and interagency comradship between federa
l, state and local law enforcement groups.
The local yokel volunteers from various law enforcement agencies got to play
with the Big Boys, and with the Big Boys Toys, and use the cover of legality
to become fully immersed in the mentality needed for an unquestioning
assault on the populace.

Why pass better laws when you can just arm your enforcers with heavier
weaponry, instead?

Why provide true justice when you can just make everything a felony and
plead it down, instead?

Why bother telling 'good' lies when the Herdizens have become so numbed to
the lies and thievery of their rulers that 'bad' lies will suffice?

Why bother pretending that there will be jacuzzis waiting at the end of the
ride in the cattle-car when the Sheeple are passively being herded into them
by the strength of an established culture of oppression?

Why bother claiming that you 'only want Austria'...

~~~~
Toto  
~~~~






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bruce Schneier 
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 12:23:16 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: 2nd announcement of ASIACRYPT'98
In-Reply-To: <199804011735.JAA08359@comsec.com>
Message-ID: <199804012023.OAA27291@mixer.visi.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


>CONFERENCE VENUE
>
>The Conference venue will be Beijing Friendship Hotel, 
>the biggest garden style hotel in Asia with advanced 
>conference facilities and good service. Located in the 
>cultural and educational area, the Friendship Hotel is 
>adjacent to several top universities and research institutes, 
>which makes it more convenient for the conference 
>participants to have academic exchanges.

The Hotel was built as a residence for Russian "observers"
in Beijing.  It's quite nice, actually.

Bruce
**********************************************************************
Bruce Schneier, President, Counterpane Systems     Phone: 612-823-1098
101 E Minnehaha Parkway, Minneapolis,MN  55419       Fax: 612-823-1590
                                            http://www.counterpane.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 17202106@05731.com
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 17:39:52 -0800 (PST)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: Web Promotion Spider
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


             Web Promote Spider

With well over 80 million documents on the web today,
getting your Site   noticed is a difficult process. Going to 
each Search Engine, Link Page,   Directory, and Newsgroup
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The  Spider automates the   process of submitting your site
and uses powerful technology to get your site   listed in the 
TOP positions.

We've developed the  Web Promote Spider for Windows 95
and NT. This amazing program automatically submits your 
site to over 250   (the list grows daily) major search engines and
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PLUS, the  Web Promote Spider has an Expert HTML Reader
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in Search   Engines to Optimize your pages and get them listed
on TOP. Originally   engineered for use by the professional
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Beginners will be amazed at how simple it is to take   complete
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The Web Promote Spider is an industrial strength marketing
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With this kind   of power, it should come as no surprise that 
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With your payment of only $49.95 (standard version) you will 
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We are proud to announce that we now have two powerful 
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While the standard version of this product seems to meet the 
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To make this easier and more efficient for our customers, we have
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Deep Promotion - This feature will automatically explore every
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Expanded Promotion Resources - While the standard version
of the Spider will submit to 250 registration resources this list
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Dmitry Goldgaber 
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 13:55:00 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Cryptography and DNA
Message-ID: <35227461.6C61@mail.psychiatry.sunysb.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


"Chaffing and winnowing in molecular biology"
Ronald L. Rivest's method for hiding information by breaking it in to 
packets mixed with other meaningless packets is similar to an approach
which is used in organic systems, at the DNA level.

In our bodies, packets of meaningful information from the DNA used for 
encoding protein sequences, called exons, are mixed with meaningless
stretches of DNA, called introns.  Certain rules exist for putting
protein coding sequences together which are based on information around
the
intron/exon border.

The analogy between cryptographic techniques and biological
processes at the genetic level are striking.  I believe that principles
of protien coding may be useful to the cryptographic community.  In
turn,
the principles and methods used by the cryptographic community may
be useful to those who are analysing DNA sequences which are available
and
are becoming available from the Human Genome Project and other non-human
Genome projects.

Dmitry Goldgaber




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSquncr 
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 15:47:20 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Clinton's enemy files
Message-ID: <6c26f0c8.3522d1e2@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


In a message dated 98-04-01 18:41:52 EST, "nobody" writes:

<< @TEXT 	RNC Chairman Blasts White House for Maintaining 'Enemies Files' ...
>>

And if you (or 'nobody' ;-) ) believes anything that the RNC says, you'll also
believe that Jones had a case.  Ha!

Stan




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 17:24:20 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com (Cypherpunks)
Subject: Meganet Corporation Ships Virtual Matrix Encryption Nationwide; new $1.2 Million Challenge Begins Today
Message-ID: <199804020123.TAA05405@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text


_I_ am not joking on this April Fools' day.

I picked it up from a stock website.

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
Wednesday April 1, 11:00 am Eastern Time

Company Press Release

SOURCE: Meganet Corporation

Meganet Corporation Ships Virtual Matrix Encryption Nationwide; New $1.2
Million Challenge Begins Today

LOS ANGELES, April 1 /PRNewswire/ -- Meganet Corporation, who challenged
Microsoft (Nasdaq: MSFT - news), Intel (Nasdaq: INTC - news), Dell
(Nasdaq: DELL - news), AT&T (NYSE: T - news), NCR (NYSE: NCR - news)
and many other high tech companies with their unbreakable encryption
is shipping VME98 nationwide. As of today, April 1st, 1998, anyone in
the continental United States of America can buy VME98 directly from
the Meganet web site at http://www.meganet.com. Prices for the standard
edition are only $100 for a fully operational application.

After 12 months of Research & Development, Meganet Corporation completed
21 different commercial versions of VME98 last month, and the product
is now being sold nationwide through the World Wide Web.

Virtual Matrix Encryption is the strongest encryption available today,
and the product is available ONLY in the United States of America. For
the time being, there are no sales in any other countries, though Meganet
Corporation is considering applying for an export license.

Meganet Corporation also keeps on working on standardizing VME with the
different standards committees.

Meganet Corporation is also launching their 3rd challenge which is worth
$1.2 million over the next 12 months. Starting today, and for the next 12
months, Meganet Corporation will post a monthly $100,000 challenge for
registered users of VME98. This new challenge shows Meganet Corporation
has absolute confidence that VME98 is completely unbreakable.

Today's date also marks 1 year from the first 1 million dollar challenge
that brought Meganet Corporation nationwide recognition. The challenge
lasted 45 days and over 55,000 people participated. None have succeeded.

Today also marks the end of the second challenge which lasted over 6
months, where Meganet Corporation challenged the top 250 corporations
in the U.S. to test and break VME97. None have succeeded. The challenge
solution will be posted on the Meganet web site at http://www.meganet.com.

Meganet Corporation has a U.S. patent pending for VME. The technology
uses a new field of encryption and a new algorithm to encrypt data
that is completely different from any existing method. VME is the only
algorithm that does not encrypt the data or transfer it. By comparing
the data to a random built-in Virtual Matrix, a system of pointers
is being created. These pointers are meaningless outside the context
of the matrix they belong to, while being repeatedly encrypted in a
plethora of algorithms. Even in the unlikely event that the algorithms
are compromised, the set of pointers discovered is completely unrelated
to the original data, and there is no way to derive the original data out
of the pointers set. The Virtual Matrix encryption enables the world's
first and only unbreakable encryption.

More information about Meganet Corporation and the Virtual Matrix
Encryption can be found at http://www.meganet.com.

SOURCE: Meganet Corporation

 More Quotes and News:
                   AT&T Corp (NYSE:T - news) Dell Computer Corp
                   (Nasdaq:DELL - news) Intel Corp (Nasdaq:INTC - news)
                   Microsoft Corp (Nasdaq:MSFT - news) NCR Corp (NYSE:NCR
                   - news)
 Related News Categories: ISDEX, computer hardware, computers, internet,
 semiconductors, software, telecom, telecom



                                            Hel

	- Igor.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: sphantom 
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 19:52:18 -0800 (PST)
To: "cypherpunks@toad.com>
Subject: [Fwd: This is  a neat one]
Message-ID: <35230B70.E697B084@tfs.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



sphantom wrote:

> What if Dr.Seuss Wrote Technical Training Manuals?
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>COMPUTER MANUAL by Dr. Seuss<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>                              With Apologies to Dr. Seuss
>
> If a packet hits a pocket on a socket on a port,
> And the bus is interrupted as a very last resort,
> And the address of the memory makes your floppy disk abort,
> Then the socket packet pocket has an error to report!
>
> If your cursor finds a menu  item followed by a dash,
> And the double-clicking icon puts your window in the trash,
> And your data is corrupted 'cause the index doesn't hash,
> Then your situation's hopeless, and your systems gonna crash!
>
> You can't say this? What a shame sir!
> We'll find you another game sir!
>
> If the label on the cable on  the table at your house,
> Says the network is connected to the button on your mouse,
> But your packets want to tunnel on another protocol,
> That's repeatedly rejected by the printer down the hall!
>
> If your screen is all distorted by the side-effects of gauss,
> So your icons in the window are as wavy as a souse,
> Then you may as well reboot, and go out with a bang,
> 'Cause as sure as I'm a poet, the sucker's gonna hang!
>
> If the copy of your floppy's getting sloppy on the disc,
> And the microcode instructions cause unnecessary RISC,
> Then you have to flash your memory, and you'll want to RAM your ROM,
> Quickly turn off the computer and be sure to tell your MOM!




To: the flowers 
Subject: This is  a neat one
From: sphantom 
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 21:44:38 -0600
CC: JP , Jason Price 
Organization: Beware of phantoms who hide in shadows...
Reply-To: shadow@tfs.net

What if Dr.Seuss Wrote Technical Training Manuals?

>>>>>>>>>>>>COMPUTER MANUAL by Dr. Seuss<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
                             With Apologies to Dr. Seuss

If a packet hits a pocket on a socket on a port,
And the bus is interrupted as a very last resort,
And the address of the memory makes your floppy disk abort,
Then the socket packet pocket has an error to report!

If your cursor finds a menu  item followed by a dash,
And the double-clicking icon puts your window in the trash,
And your data is corrupted 'cause the index doesn't hash,
Then your situation's hopeless, and your systems gonna crash!

You can't say this? What a shame sir!
We'll find you another game sir!

If the label on the cable on  the table at your house,
Says the network is connected to the button on your mouse,
But your packets want to tunnel on another protocol,
That's repeatedly rejected by the printer down the hall!

If your screen is all distorted by the side-effects of gauss,
So your icons in the window are as wavy as a souse,
Then you may as well reboot, and go out with a bang,
'Cause as sure as I'm a poet, the sucker's gonna hang!

If the copy of your floppy's getting sloppy on the disc,
And the microcode instructions cause unnecessary RISC,
Then you have to flash your memory, and you'll want to RAM your ROM,
Quickly turn off the computer and be sure to tell your MOM!





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 23:32:55 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: illegal export of pgp.zip by .mil
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980401233224.007aacd0@otc.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


	
http://braggbbs.bragg.army.mil/libs/utils.htm
has a link to ftp://bbs.bragg.army.mil/library/utils/pgp262.zip

Someone (from Europe, ideally) should clue these people
in.  Maybe cc the media.  






honig@alum.mit.edu
------------------
"Are we going after their tax returns?  I can only hope that we are,
frankly, doing a little persecuting" ---Nixon to Erlichman,
on tax audits of wealth Jewish contributors to the Democrats.
	-LA Times 1.4.98






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mixmaster 
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 01:52:03 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Reno and Freeh talking about Crypto and Terrorism
Message-ID: <199804020935.BAA10288@sirius.infonex.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


"A balanced solution between the interests of
the public and the interests of law enforcement."

- THE LIE




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Toto" 
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 04:08:49 -0800 (PST)
To: "CypherPunks" 
Subject: Prologue 16/0 - SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS!!!
Message-ID: <000e01bd5e40$8bfbe120$1862a58e@uymfdlvk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Title: Prologue 16/0 - SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS




Prologue 16/0 - SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS!!!

First of all, let me stress the importance of cracking in our everyday life. Cracking it's not just about software, it's about information, about all patterns of life. To crack is to refuse to be controlled and used by others, to crack is to be free. But you must also be yourself free from petty conventions in order to crack properly. 
You must learn to discern cracking possibilities all around yourself, and believe me, the development of this ghastly society brings every day new codes, protections and concealing mechanisms. All around us grows a world of codes and secret and not so secret patterns. Codes that are at times so familiar and common that we do not even notice them any more... and yet they are there to fool us, and yet they offer marvelous cracking possibilities.
http://fravia.org/crack_C1.htm
 
From: Dmitry Goldgaber dgoldgaber@mail.psychiatry.sunysb.edu
To: cypherpunks@toad.com cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Cryptography and DNA
"Chaffing and winnowing in molecular biology"
Ronald L. Rivest's method for hiding information by breaking it in to packets mixed with other meaningless packets is similar to an approach which is used in organic systems, at the DNA level.
In our bodies, packets of meaningful information from the DNA used for encoding protein sequences, called exons, are mixed with meaningless stretches of DNA, called introns. Certain rules exist for putting protein coding sequences together which are based on information around the intron/exon border.
The analogy between cryptographic techniques and biological processes at the genetic level are striking. I believe that principles of protein coding may be useful to the cryptographic community. In turn, the principles and methods used by the cryptographic community maybe useful to those who are analyzing DNA sequences which are available and are becoming available from the Human Genome Project and other non-human Genome projects.
Dmitry Goldgaber
dgoldgaber@mail.psychiatry.sunysb.edu

  
...only one remark, may be: the DOS/UNIX world seems very neglected in the essays... everybody is cracking exclusively the newest applications for windoze, and that could be a mistake: 
I said that we must crack windoze in order to throw our seeds with the wind, true, but let's not forget that, as you know very well, a good knowledge of the past is the only tool you can relay on in order to foresee the future...
...You see fravia+, for the first time in the history of humanity knowledge can be spread for free and reach anybody who cares :=) 
I don't know if this contingency will last, coz many powerful forces are struggling against this. Should knowledge, their efforts notwithstanding, continue to flow in this way, it will change the face of the world as we know it.
http://fravia.org/academy.htm
 
 
Now, Bubba explained, the Evil Forces were regrouping to once again take control of the world, and they had been working through our new, hi-tech gods, the Gods of Communication--television and computers. 
"There were those who tried to warn us," he said. "Marshal McLuhan was our hi-tech 'John the Baptist,' "The Medium Is The Message" became our new Bible, but he, too, was just a "voice crying in the wilderness." "Others, like the "Android Sisters," we relegated to the status of clowns and entertainers as the 'Media' lulled us to sleep and became our 'Waking Dream,' our new reality." 
"Where once we sacrificed sheep, offering up the blood of the innocent to appease our gods," Bubba railed, with ever mounting conviction, "now we have become the sheep to be led to the slaughter by our 'Gods of Communication.' 
"And the shadow of Gomez falls ever more frequently across our door, like a pestilence upon the land and its people."
Bubba Rom Dos, derelict and philosopher, surveyed the crowd, which had now gone totally silent, and proceeded to explain some of the things he claimed to have learned in the Far East from a group which was, according to him, actively working to counter the new 'Angels of Darkness' which had already begun launching their assault upon mankind, using our own new hi-tech environment. 
"Demons," he explained, "have always worked their will through our own physical reality in order to accomplish their ends. Television has lulled our minds into a deep slumber, and now they are free to attack through the mechanisms of the physical instrument which is becoming a part of, and controlling force over, the whole of our lives---the computer." 
"Our lives are tracked and controlled by numbers---our address, our phone number, our social security number, our driver's license and passport numbers. And now all these numbers are being controlled by computers---computers that can communicate all around the world, at the touch of a button. Computers that can, in an instant, separate us into categories according to our names, our race, our political beliefs, or by the names of our children. Computers that know all, and see all." 
Bubba explained how the Evil One is making his bid, once again, to write his own happy ending in the Final Chapter of the war between the 'forces of good and evil.' He told of how Gomez and the Dark Allies (Daemons, Zombies, and Orphan Zombies) have been unleashed to wreak their havoc in the Final Battle, with the Hounds of Hell nipping at our heels and the dreaded Cron orchestrating this whole savage 'Dance of Armageddon.' 
By now the crowd had grown deathly silent and Bubba, sensing that they were, individually and collectively, on the edge of despair, began talking about what could be done to alleviate, and perhaps even remedy, the present desperate situation. 
He explained that the reason that many of the best computer hackers around were teenagers was that they are in the hot, throbbing throes of puberty, and were thus very conscious of the yin-yang aspects of computers, which basically consist of just hardware and software. The hardware, he said, is the yang, or male aspect, of computers, while the software is the yin, or female, component. 
"Hardware is very ego-centered, it wants everything it's own way. In order to operate correctly, it wants everything to be very structured, in the place it wants it to be in, and meeting its own narrow criterion. When you turn the hardware on it gives itself a little diagnostic 'hitch in the crotch' to check its equipment, and says, 'let's get at it'---it's ready for some action." 
"Software is more flexible and malleable. It is more willing to go with the flow and change to meet the requirements for the job at hand, rather than forcing things to be done in a certain way. Good software will do anything you want it to do---it just wants to be coaxed with the right words and syntax, so that you don't think of it as being too 'easy.' 
Bubba explained that programmers are what Gurdjieff referred to as the 'third,' or 'unifying,' force in the universe, capable of bringing the yin and yang aspects of the cosmos into union with one another to produce a third, unique force. 
"Programmers are the unifying force that supply the energy enabling two separate and unique components, hardware and software, to have a relationship that is capable of productivity and growth. A marriage of matter that could spawn and produce a multitude of children to go forth and do many new things in the world, for better or worse, for good or for evil." 
"You are society's last hope for thwarting the Forces of Evil gearing up for the final battle, readying themselves to wreak grievous havoc upon the world, such that it has never known. It is up to you to 'raise the torch,' and let the 'light of knowledge' spread throughout the civilized world, in the thread of 'clues' scattered throughout the UNIX operating system, and throughout your programming and your instructions." 
"You must band together, man and woman, young and old, into a 'Magic Circle' for your own protection from the Forces of Darkness! You must develop your own secret codes and rituals to deal with the Evil Forces which will beset you daily once you set foot on the Path of Righteousness."
At this point Bubba, who had been sucking rather liberally on a bottle of Wild Turkey during this rousing and inspiring 'spiritual soliloquy,' started to lose his train of thought and began to babble randomly about young boys' hardware and young girls' software, making statements that downright smacked of pedophilia, and it turned into quite a nasty scene before the students finally threw him out of the meeting. 
But a spark had been ignited before the old geezer finally lost control of his mind, as well as some of his bodily functions, and the evening marked the initial development of the 'Post-Ancient Rites' of the Computer Age---and the beginning of an underground Secret Society later to become known by those within the 'Magic Circle' as the "Circle of Eunuchs." 
http://www.clas.net/~dave/public/xenix
 
We are already now thoroughly involved in this, and your "students' essays" page is a very good example of a potential new dawn. We will see in due time... let us sip our cocktails and wait... as I told you, the repercussions, on the web never immediate, yet the inertial effects of our work can be huge.
Thank to your (and other) sites, those who want to learn will now be able to begin learning (and teaching, which is the other side of the same extraordinary mirror) within very powerful frames.
It was about time: maiora premunt! 
The world of the near future will be a "world of software", an half-virtual world, where code will assume today unbelievable massive proportions, where" reality" will not count much for the pavlovian gullible beings that will forget their miserable slave conditions deafened by the concerted (and concocted) "virtuality" that they will Oh so much love.
A world of software, a world of code, and therefore, as usual, a world of hidden codes and hidden meanings (as if the world we live in now did not have already enough of them :=(
I just hope that many of our "students" will soon tackle the more complex and even less rewarding task of cracking the reality they live in... hoc opus, hic labor: software protections are only a tiny part of the "unknown" world around us, albeit a very useful playground to flex your "reversing muscles".
Our students and friends will have the difficult (and seldom rewarding) task of finding the keys of its concealed doors, in order to donate them to all those who care, to all those that our enemies are determined to leave outside. In fact they "must" remain out in order to allow fat profits for a minority. This future codeworld will be a scary world indeed if we don't modify (or destroy) the rails our societies are now running on:
I advice you to fasten your seat belt and to seat next to an emergency exit.
Like cracking.
Work well, +ORC
http://fravia.org/academy.htm
 
 
Shackling the state *
by Nuri Albala
If signed, the current MAI proposals would form a benchmark for the global investment economy, taking precedence over most existing national obligations and agreements. The multinational corporations would be given powerful ammunition against sovereign states and the legal means to enforce their new "rights". It is a dynamic agreement which would ultimately "rollback" all national laws which did not conform. 
Translated by Julie Stoker
http://www.monde-diplomatique.fr/md/en/ 
 
 
The infamous "privatization" and "rationalization" trend of the last decades, basically aimed to degrade the quality of life in the whole world in order to allow more profits for the few that had the economic power, among many other damages, wiped away the "conductors" all over the world. 
A society where the cloak of rationalization is used only to blind people, tricking them into losing life quality and into political immobility through a well orchestrated propaganda machine in order, as always, to allow very few to make a lot of profit... 
Yes, as I have repeatedly told you: quality of life has been continuously and purposely lowered, in order to allow bigger profits for the few that control this awful society of stupid slaves: planes land noisy at night, whole suburbs abandoned to the savages, you have to carry heavy water home and your pensions (should you have the right to a pension) will be cut (or completely eliminated) in the near future in name of the "rationalization". In the mean time all social cushions are being stripped off one by one, in name of the "globalization" and of the "free play" of the market forces, which are nothing else than the uncontrollable throbbing for profits of the few that control these markets.
Don't be deceived if there is nothing about cracking code above... decoding life is much more important than decoding code, and you won't be able to feel the code if you don't learn first to decode the world around you.
A devastated, scorched society, that's where we live in, a desert of intelligence where only some faint lights glow. Make so that your brain will help others to find the way to understand the world around them with unsullied eyes, that's the real task of a cracker.
Moreover inside each country (rich and poor alike) takes place an analogous "development" in favor of the richest part of the population... that's the current "progress of humanity" stand behind all bla-bla-bla: rich get richer, poor get poorer... a nice society indeed, headed at full speed against a brick wall.
Because we are more than code crackers: we are reality crackers, my kids.
+ORC, the old red cracker, August 1997
http://fravia.org/modernze.htm
 
Requiem for a Fallen Comrade:
One of the original members of the Circle of Eunuchs recently began analyzing information gleaned from an AI Model designed to enable herself and others to calculate the variation between the economic gains provided by the evolution of technology and the reflection of these gains in the economic evolution of society, as a whole.
The AI Model was designed and generated using techniques and methodologies which have already proved to provide exemplary results in regard to reflecting real-world results, as reflected by analysis and direct observation.
Her preliminary report, based on what she considered to be a solid--though incomplete--foundation, was that there appeared to be an astounding amount of wealth generated by evolving applied technology which was disappearing down a "Black Hole."
Shortly after providing her preliminary report, she, also, "disappeared down a Black hole," as did her equipment and all record of her work on the project, code-named 'Robyn Steele.'
Permanent residents of TVWorld are unlikely to notice her absence, but those who strive to live their life in a waking state are well aware that there is a star missing in the sky over Lost Alamo that brought much sparkle and joy to those who dare to venture out into the darkness to help others find their way to the light.
http://dev.null/Alexis.htm
 
 
The Revolution is NOW!
http://www.clas.net/~dave/public/infowar3
 
 
People do not want to learn to be free, and to free them we have sadly to "circumvent" them with more or less the same techniques that our enemies use to enslave them :=)
Let's crack the very temples of the enemies of the humanity and poetry, the prisons where we are forced to buy and consume... let's show all idiots the WHIPS that are used to enslave them... as always light comes through knowledge.
Remember that NOTHING is casual in this awful society where people are CULTIVATED to consume and nothing else than that. Around you almost everything has a "secret" meaning, that you are not supposed to see, understand or crack 
So let's battle against them! Codebar! Understand! Explain others! Free the stupid slaves... watch the world around you free from petty convention and understand in what for an awful mess you are condemned to live! 
http://fravia.org/slaves.htm
 
 
Prologue to 'WebWorld & The Mythical Circle of Eunuchs'

The great tragedy of it, is that it didn't have to happen. Not at all...we were warned.
And yet, still, it has come to this. 
I don't know why I feel this overwhelming compulsion to go on and on about it. I could have done something. We all could have done something.
Perhaps the final epitaph on the gravestone of Freedom will be, 
"Why didn't somebody 'do' something?" 
That seems to be the common battle-cry of the legions of humanity that have been sucked into the vortex of the New World Order.
None of the imprisoned seem to know that the very phrase itself is reflective of the source of their imprisonment...that this desperate cry of anguish is in no way an antidote for the terrible disease that has afflicted 'Liberty and Justice', and that it is, rather, merely the final symptom of the cursed blight itself. 
I can hear the rumbling of the trucks as they come up the street, and soon I will be hearing the thumping of the jackboots storming up the staircase, as I have heard them so many times before. But I suspect that this time, the sound will be different, that it will have an ethereal quality about it, one which conveys greater personal meaning than it did when I heard it on previous occasions.
This time, they are coming for 'me.'
My only hope is that I can find the strength of character somewhere inside myself to ask the question which lies at the heart of why there is a 'they' to come for me at all...why, in the end, it has finally come to this for me, as for countless others. 
The question is, in retrospect, as simple and basic as it is essential for any who still espouse the concepts of freedom and liberty to ask themselves upon finding themselves marveling at the outrageousness being perpetrated upon their neighbors by 'them'...by 'others'...by 'Friends of the Destroyer.' 
The question is:
"Why didn't 'I' do something?"
http://www.clas.net/~dave/public/webworld
 



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: VeriSign Customer Service 
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 06:13:35 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Secure your E-mail with your Digital ID
Message-ID: <199804021411.GAA01757@toro-cm3.verisign.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Law, Mark" 
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 14:01:43 -0800 (PST)
To: "'news-l@smeg.extensis.com>
Subject: Ten New Reasons to Visit Extensis Online
Message-ID: <8A30B9E165B2D111B90A00104B233F7905A766@extensisnt.extensis.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


news@extensis.com
===============

Ten New Reasons to Visit Extensis Online

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Sunder 
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 08:15:10 -0800 (PST)
To: Robert Hettinga 
Subject: Re: illegal export of pgp.zip by .mil
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3523B87E.864C0CF9@brainlink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Instead of making a fuss over this, we should thank the very wise and
very smart sysadmins at these .mil machines for providing this wonderful
service for us.  By making themselves look totally clueless, they've provided
for the spread of privacy and freedom of privacy!  That's truly commendable!

Personally, I will raise my next glass of beer in their honor!  :)  


Robert Hettinga wrote:
> 
> At 2:32 AM -0500 on 4/2/98, David Honig wrote:
> 
> >
> > http://braggbbs.bragg.army.mil/libs/utils.htm
> > has a link to ftp://bbs.bragg.army.mil/library/utils/pgp262.zip
> 
> This is really nothing new. My understanding is that when Kelly Goen posted
> the original PGP to USENET, he set the distribution to US only, or at the
> very least North America only.
> 
> However, some mis-configured news machine actually exported PGP to the rest
> of the world by ignoring the distribution request on those news messages.
> 
> The machine in question had a .mil domain name. :-).
> 
> Cheers,
> Bob Hettinga

-- 

=====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos==============
.+.^.+.|  Ray Arachelian    |Prying open my 3rd eye.  So good to see |./|\.
..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were      |/\|/\
<--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run  |\/|\/
../|\..| "A toast to Odin,  |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/.
.+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were....            |.....
======================= http://www.sundernet.com ==========================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ComPete@iname.com
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 12:50:46 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: FYI - PUBLIC NOTICE!!
Message-ID: <199804022050.MAA19592@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hi 


	*    MARK YARNELL    *
	*    Pre-Launches    *
	*  his next BIG deal *



		21st Century Global Network, LLC
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*	4 page Business Strategy and Conference Call schedule.

For More Information mailto:leipro@idt.net?subject=Mark_Yarnell
 

----------------------------------------------------------------
To be REMOVED mailto:Compete@iname.com?subject=REMOVE













From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 13:42:52 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: illegal export of pgp.zip by .mil
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980401233224.007aacd0@otc.net>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 2:32 AM -0500 on 4/2/98, David Honig wrote:


>
> http://braggbbs.bragg.army.mil/libs/utils.htm
> has a link to ftp://bbs.bragg.army.mil/library/utils/pgp262.zip

This is really nothing new. My understanding is that when Kelly Goen posted
the original PGP to USENET, he set the distribution to US only, or at the
very least North America only.

However, some mis-configured news machine actually exported PGP to the rest
of the world by ignoring the distribution request on those news messages.

The machine in question had a .mil domain name. :-).

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga

-----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jennifer DePalma 
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 10:30:21 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: regulating the internet
Message-ID: <199804021829.NAA20429@cato.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Anyone have any opinions on the feasibility of regulating the internet?






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Kevlar 
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 13:45:17 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: RE: regulating the internet
In-Reply-To: <6B5344C210C7D011835C0000F80127660100366A@exna01.securitydynamics.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980402133858.007ef420@mail.smartlink.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Which rasies another issue...

I personally have always forseen the day when you will be charged by the
megabyte, and not the minuite. Picture this...

Your at the air port, and you need to see if a very important email has
arived... you walk to the nearest phone booth, which cosists of nothing
more than a little plastic booth for you to stand in, and an rj-11. No
handset, no keypad, no coin slot... just a jack. You take out your palmtop
computer, plug it into the jack, type in your password, download your
e-mail and attachments (about 7 meg in all, large attachments) and press
the Logoff button. A little window appears with the AT&T logo in the corner
and says:

Thank you for using AT&T for all your digital needs.
Total use: 7101k
Total charge: $0.71
$0.71 has been billed to your MASTERCARD.

Could you see ISP's and phone companys alike JUMPING on this?

There's a slew of questions that this raises... do you get charged for
uploading too? is it a different pricing system for uploading? do you get
charged less? more? is there such a thing as a free address, like our
present (800) or (888) numbers in which the recipiant picks up the tab? 

And most importantly... does it cost more to send your packet further away?
to another country?

I think I just slamed this idea into a virtual brick wall... Comments,
ideas, and criticisims are always welcome!


At 03:23 PM 4/2/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Your question is too vague to get any kind of simple answer.
>
>Regulate *what* exactly? Protocol standards? Pricing? Volume 

-Kevlar


Oh, I'm sorry... Was I not suposed to EXPORT STRONG CRYPTO?
print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo
"16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<>
)]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 11:21:01 -0800 (PST)
To: Jennifer DePalma 
Subject: Re: regulating the internet
In-Reply-To: <199804021829.NAA20429@cato.org>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Thu, 2 Apr 1998, Jennifer DePalma wrote:

>Anyone have any opinions on the feasibility of regulating the internet?

no.

Ken Williams

ORG: NC State Computer Science Dept   VP of The E.H.A.P. Corp.   
EML: jkwilli2@adm.csc.ncsu.edu        ehap@hackers.com             
WWW: http://152.7.11.38/~tattooman/   http://www.hackers.com/ehap/ 
PGP: finger tattooman@152.7.11.38                       







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 14:33:04 -0800 (PST)
To: Jennifer DePalma 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980402143301.007baa20@otc.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 01:29 PM 4/2/98 -0500, Jennifer DePalma wrote:
>Anyone have any opinions on the feasibility of regulating the internet?
>

Read "Cyphernomicon".  Hard.




------------------------------------------------------------
      David Honig                   Orbit Technology
     honig@otc.net                  Intaanetto Jigyoubu

When exponentiation is outlawed, only outlaws will exponentiate.










	















From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: info@fsbowner.com
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 10:35:59 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: Electrical Substation Control Service
Message-ID: <199804021945.OAA23357@orion.icmiinc.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Electrical Substation Controls:

Single Phase Tap Changing Transformer Controls.

With a 25 yr history, ICMI designed and mfg. McGraw CL1,2,2a,
CL4,CL5a. Expanded services now include Siemens/Allis IJ, MJ
and SJ series, and GE VR1 and ML32 Controls.  Servicing and
total rebuilds with 2 yr limited warranty.  ICMI is also 
intrested in buying the above controls for rebuilding.  

Contact Dirk K Mooibroek
 
Tel (513)752-4731 Fax (513)752-4738 Email info@icmiinc.com

Also visit our web site at http://www.icmiinc.com




This notice is intended for Power Utility Professionals.
If you feel you have been reached in error, or do not want to 
receive further notification of issues concerning the Power 
Utility Industry please send a message containing the word remove
in either the subject or body of the message to:

remove@icmiinc.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jennifer DePalma 
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 12:19:21 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: regulating the internet -- clarification
Message-ID: <199804022018.PAA23047@cato.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


To clarify:  I'm serious about this question, if for no other reason than I
am editing a paper that basically claims it is impossible to regulate the
internet.  I wish that were true, but I'm not sure I buy it.  Any input is
most appreciated.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Trei, Peter" 
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 12:21:31 -0800 (PST)
To: "'Jennifer DePalma'" 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Your question is too vague to get any kind of simple answer.

Regulate *what* exactly? Protocol standards? Pricing? Volume 
of traffic? Traffic content? Internationally or domestically?
If domestic, which countries? Use of encryption? Anonymity?
Digital signatures? Taxation? Email content? Spam?  Porn? 
Usenet? Web sites? IRC? DNS naming services? Digital telephony?

Packets currently fly around the world as free as migratory
birds, and as hampered by borders.

Peter Trei
ptrei@securitydynamics.com
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Jennifer DePalma [SMTP:jdepalma@cato.org]
> Sent:	Thursday, April 02, 1998 1:30 PM
> To:	cypherpunks@toad.com
> Subject:	regulating the internet
> 
> Anyone have any opinions on the feasibility of regulating the
> internet?
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Abstruse" 
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 12:57:28 -0800 (PST)
To: Jennifer DePalma 
Subject: Re: regulating the internet
In-Reply-To: <199804021829.NAA20429@cato.org>
Message-ID: <3523FB9F.3A46@Abstruse.ml.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Jennifer DePalma wrote:
> 
> Anyone have any opinions on the feasibility of regulating the internet?

impossible..




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "T. Luv" 
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 14:01:22 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: cookbook
Message-ID: <001701bd5e84$27795900$bd6ebec7@default>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




this is in request to the 
anarchy cookbookk or the jollyrodger. i wantted to know if u could tell me where 
i can find either one or if u could send one of them to me.
 
alex  love
 
T LuvICQ #7624072http://www.sunridge.net/index.phtml?id=83091


From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ken Williams 
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 13:21:23 -0800 (PST)
To: Jennifer DePalma 
Subject: Re: regulating the internet -- clarification
In-Reply-To: <199804022018.PAA23047@cato.org>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Thu, 2 Apr 1998, Jennifer DePalma wrote:

>To clarify:  I'm serious about this question, if for no other reason than I
>am editing a paper that basically claims it is impossible to regulate the
>internet.  I wish that were true, but I'm not sure I buy it.  Any input is
>most appreciated.

I am serious about my answer too.  My answer is "no".

To clarify:  I do NOT think it is feasible "to regulate the Internet".
The feds don't have enough clueservers to keep up with the technology and
the growth.  Only Fidel Castro could single-handedly regulate the
Internet, but he still doesn't have Internet access (besides that AOL
account), so that's a moot point.  Trying to "regulate the Internet" is
like the government trying to regulate an individual's bowel movements.
Ex-Lax does a better job, but still can't do it right.

Just say no to government sponsored prostate exams and body cavity
searches.

Ken 






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Lucky Green 
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 16:27:29 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Crytozilla operational 15 h after Netscape releases Mozilla source
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


In yet another painful blow against US export regulations, the
international Mozilla Crypto Group replaced the crypto code that US
regulations forced Netscape to remove before publication of the Mozilla
source. 

It took the group all of 15 hours to do so. This should make for a nice 
tidbit to be used in future depositions or testimony.

http://mozilla-crypto.ssleay.org/press/19980401-02/index.html

-- Lucky Green  PGP encrypted mail preferred





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Michael H. Warfield" 
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 13:35:30 -0800 (PST)
To: ptrei@securitydynamics.com
Subject: Re: regulating the internet
In-Reply-To: <6B5344C210C7D011835C0000F80127660100366A@exna01.securitydynamics.com>
Message-ID: <199804022133.QAA29899@alcove.wittsend.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Trei, Peter enscribed thusly:
> Your question is too vague to get any kind of simple answer.

	I thought her question was pretty specific and the simple answer
is yes.  She asked if anyone had any opinions.  I might have responded that
asking an opinionated bunch like cypherpunks if any of them have opinions
must have been a retorical question.

	I think we all have opinions on regulating the internet.  I
don't think the simple answer is what she WANTED though...  :-)

	Answering the question she ASKED is REAL SIMPLE.  Just like the
joke about Microsoft support...  The answer is 100% correct and completely
useless.  :-)

> Regulate *what* exactly? Protocol standards? Pricing? Volume 
> of traffic? Traffic content? Internationally or domestically?
> If domestic, which countries? Use of encryption? Anonymity?
> Digital signatures? Taxation? Email content? Spam?  Porn? 
> Usenet? Web sites? IRC? DNS naming services? Digital telephony?
> 
> Packets currently fly around the world as free as migratory
> birds, and as hampered by borders.
> 
> Peter Trei
> ptrei@securitydynamics.com
>  
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:	Jennifer DePalma [SMTP:jdepalma@cato.org]
> > Sent:	Thursday, April 02, 1998 1:30 PM
> > To:	cypherpunks@toad.com
> > Subject:	regulating the internet
> > 
> > Anyone have any opinions on the feasibility of regulating the
> > internet?
> > 
> 


-- 
 Michael H. Warfield    |  (770) 985-6132   |  mhw@WittsEnd.com
  (The Mad Wizard)      |  (770) 925-8248   |  http://www.wittsend.com/mhw/
  NIC whois:  MHW9      |  An optimist believes we live in the best of all
 PGP Key: 0xDF1DD471    |  possible worlds.  A pessimist is sure of it!




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Oasis179 
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 13:57:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Im Jenny
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

 


To: Oasis179@aol.com
Subject: Im Jenny
From: Oasis179 
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 16:53:51 EST
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Hi I'm Jenny and I made a webpage which has my picture on it, I think im very
pretty, tell me what you think.

Click Here




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Oasis179 
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 14:37:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Im Jenny
Message-ID: <75c245d4.35240acb@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

 


To: Oasis179@aol.com
Subject: Im Jenny
From: Oasis179 
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 16:53:51 EST
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Hi I'm Jenny and I made a webpage which has my picture on it, I think im very
pretty, tell me what you think.

Click Here




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "James Lucier" 
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 15:10:27 -0800 (PST)
To: "Ken Williams" 
Subject: RE: regulating the internet -- clarification
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <001a01bd5e8c$1916d100$0f24eecf@jlucier.atr.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Let's be fair to Jennifer: the Internet is a self-regulated community.  From
Netiquette to Protocols, there is actually quite a lot of regulation going
on.  However, for the most part, this regulation is voluntary:  you choose
to opt in, or in the case of Spamford Wallace, people ultimately choose not
to deal with you. They may even seek civil remedies in court. In this
respect, the Internet is a model for the self-regulating markeplace of the
future.

Is is possible to regulate the Internet?  You bet, but not in any
productive, useful way.  You want to regulate the Internet?  Just go to
France and try something called the Minitel.  It's a nice toy that some
people like to play with, but it is a closed-end system that does not have
the capacity to evolve, develop, and innovate the way the Internet does.

Encryption controls are a great example of the futility of attempting to
"regulate" the net.  As Adam Back delights in showing, you can write
powerful crypto in tiny little hacks of maybe 130 characters or so in perl.
These give you the ability to encrypt any size file with a key of abritrary
length.  Who are the feds kidding when they think that they can "stop"
people from doing this?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
> [mailto:owner-cypherpunks@cyberpass.net]On Behalf Of Ken Williams
> Sent: Thursday, April 02, 1998 4:21 PM
> To: Jennifer DePalma
> Cc: cypherpunks@toad.com
> Subject: Re: regulating the internet -- clarification
>
>
> On Thu, 2 Apr 1998, Jennifer DePalma wrote:
>
> >To clarify:  I'm serious about this question, if for no other
> reason than I
> >am editing a paper that basically claims it is impossible to regulate the
> >internet.  I wish that were true, but I'm not sure I buy it.
> Any input is
> >most appreciated.
>
> I am serious about my answer too.  My answer is "no".
>
> To clarify:  I do NOT think it is feasible "to regulate the Internet".
> The feds don't have enough clueservers to keep up with the technology and
> the growth.  Only Fidel Castro could single-handedly regulate the
> Internet, but he still doesn't have Internet access (besides that AOL
> account), so that's a moot point.  Trying to "regulate the Internet" is
> like the government trying to regulate an individual's bowel movements.
> Ex-Lax does a better job, but still can't do it right.
>
> Just say no to government sponsored prostate exams and body cavity
> searches.
>
> Ken
>
>
>





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Toto" 
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 19:20:01 -0800 (PST)
To: "Jennifer DePalma" 
Subject: Re: regulating the internet
Message-ID: <004401bd5ebf$d7db9b60$0262a58e@uymfdlvk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----Original Message-----
From: Jennifer DePalma 
To: cypherpunks@toad.com 
Date: Thursday, April 02, 1998 11:24 AM
Subject: regulating the internet


>Anyone have any opinions on the feasibility of regulating the internet?


What is life?

[Please reply  by private, encrypted email--I plan to sell the answer by
email MLM.]







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Abstruse" 
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 17:39:05 -0800 (PST)
To: James Lucier 
Subject: Re: regulating the internet -- clarification
In-Reply-To: <001a01bd5e8c$1916d100$0f24eecf@jlucier.atr.org>
Message-ID: <35243DBF.7B72@Abstruse.ml.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


James Lucier wrote:
> 
> Let's be fair to Jennifer: the Internet is a self-regulated community.  From
> Netiquette to Protocols, there is actually quite a lot of regulation going
> on.  However, for the most part, this regulation is voluntary:  you choose
> to opt in, or in the case of Spamford Wallace, people ultimately choose not
> to deal with you. They may even seek civil remedies in court. In this
> respect, the Internet is a model for the self-regulating markeplace of the
> future.


ok, fair enough..to actually regulate the internet would require a
"coming-together" of sorts by the major countries in the world..have
they been able to accomplish this as of yet? no..now, granted, there
could be possible laws, rules, etc made that would enforce (somehwat)
this policy in differnet parts of the world..but..eventually, there's
going to be some "stepping on toes" of one nation on another..or one
region on another..or whatever..it just won't "jive".

But, provided they did manage to pull a universal proposition off that
everyone could agree on..do you honestly believe the people that
actually know how to conrol/manipulate these sytems would allow it?
there're a lot more people that have the technical savvy that would
oppose that, than there are that would defend it..if you ask me..




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Toto" 
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 19:57:31 -0800 (PST)
To: "Declan McCullagh" 
Subject: The modem tax never left...
Message-ID: <004901bd5ec5$18730000$0262a58e@uymfdlvk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


>From: Declan McCullagh 
>To: politech@vorlon.mit.edu
>Subject: http://cgi.pathfinder.com/netly/opinion/0,1042,1869,00.html

The NotReally News ReportWhore informs us:
>        *  *  *
>       Is the "modem tax" back? FCC Commissioner Susan Ness said on
>   Monday that ISPs might have to pay so-called universal service charges
>   that help subsidize cheap rural phone service and school and library
>   Internet connections.

Declan,
Something that Republican children of the post-JFK generation all remember
is where they were when George Bush said, "Read my (moving) lips...No New
Taxes!"
The great tragedy of their times, though they still fail to recognize it
even today, is that the citizens present at that occassion did not rush the
stage and drag him to the nearest tree with a limb strong enough to hold his
weight when a rope was thrown over it and attached to his neck.

The sticky PrePubescizens of the WebGeneration will someday regret that
their parents stood by and didn't even bother watching as the Analogue Lies
of the Controllers were transformed into Digital Lies suitable for implant
into the brains of the Robotizens, via the infrared wave emission
capabilities of TeleTunnelVision and JavasCrapGraphics.

I know that you make your living in the Belly of the DCBeast, so you don't
want to slay the Monster Who Lays The Golden Eggs, but couldn't you at least
try to make sure that the Monster gets a little of the Bad Eggs it is
hurling at the Flockizens on its own face?

How about some headlines such as:
  "Lying Piece of DC Shit Claims Hands-Off Internet Policy"
  "Arrogant Thieves Expect Victims To Believe They Won't Shake Down
NetUsers."
  "Armed Terrorists Fake Retreat To Draw Victims Into Ambush."

>        *  *  *
>Some excerpts from Commissioner Ness' remarks:
>
> "Local telcos complain that data calls typically last much
> longer than voice calls, tying up switches and requiring
> the addition of more capacity in the loop and the central
> office.


And this is True (TM)?
Are there any real reporters left in the media who are capable of analyzing
the Claims (TM) being made by those promoting Facts (TM) meant to serve
their own-self interests?
(Not a 'crime', but neither should it be a 'gimme.')
Is their anyone in the techno-reporting industry who is capable of including
an analysis of the claims of various players in the game of  Buy The Pot?
Are any of those reporting on the
Telecos' claims capable of informing those with a limited knowledge of the
technology involved if the analog and digital signals being discussed are
comparable in terms of the 'burden' that they place on the Telecos, or if
InterNet service would be more efficient or competitive if put into the
hands of other communications infrastructures?

If the local Telecos are finding themselves 'burdened' by InterNet traffic,
then perhaps they should share that terrible burden with Cable Companies,
and other entities who would like a chance to compete for the InterNet
business which is currently in the dictatorial grip of the Regulators Who
Feed At The Teleco Trough.

I expect that I can find the answers to the questions I have about these
matters by reading a mountain of information from various sources, and then
distilling it down to manageable proportions suitable for analysis.
It seems to me that if the media is not providing that type of service to
me, then I might save myself time by accessing the original 'press releases'
by various government and corporate entities, and not have to wade through
mountains of media 'news' which adds little to what was handed to them on a
silver platter for advertising/disinformation/promotion purposes.

~ ~
Toto
 ~ ~
"The Xenix Chainsaw Massacre"
http://www.clas.net/~dave/public/xenix

"WebWorld & the Mythical Circle of Eunuchs"
http://www.clas.net/~dave/public/webworld

"InfoWar -- The Digital Revolution"
http://www.clas.net/~dave/public/infowar3

"Space Aliens Hide My Drugs"
http://www.clas.net/~dave/public/sahmd






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 21:52:08 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: instructs for using PGP 5 freeware with Eudora and 2.6.2 keys
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980402215130.007a85d0@otc.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Since I grew impatient navigating geocities' UI,
I am sending this in the hope that it will be useful.
Propogate at will.


Using Eudora+PGP 5 with
2.6.2-Compatible RSA Keys
for Win95 for Dummies

4/3/98
honig@alum.mit.edu

Intro

I explain how to install and use the slick Eudora and PGP 5 freeware on 
Windows95 while maintaining full back-compatability with PGP v. 2.6.2 users. 
The installation path for compatability with 262 is not the obvious one
a new user would take.  Thus this document.

The install takes about 10 minutes and the software is free.  The strength
of your key is the same.

What is Eudora?  PGP?

Eudora is a popular, powerful, easy to use GUI POP3 email client.  Free
versions
are available.

PGP is a public-key encryption package.  PGP 5 freeware includes a plug-in
for Eudora,
making secure email not only possible, but nearly transparent.  That is key
to widespread
use which is key to the success of any protocol.  

But some people use only PGP 2.6.2, or 262 it is built into their MacOS.
The problem is that
262 uses "RSA" keys only, but PGP 5 can also use "Diffie-Hellman" keys.  In
fact,
the freeware version of PGP 5 does not allow the creation of RSA keys.

These instructions tell you how to set up Eudora + PGP so you can
painlessly use these tools with all popular PGP versions.  The newer PGP 
does not generate keys that the earlier PGP can use; but the 
newer version imports them.  So if we take the trouble to use the older
version of PGP to make our key, we can use our slick GUI email tools with
everyone, even the 2.6.2 throwbacks who probably use rotary phones,
carburators, etc.

I use "PGP 2.6.2 key" to mean the RSA key version supported by PGP 2.6.2,
and "PGP 5 key" to mean the
Diffie-Hellman key supported by the freeware version.  Both variants are
based on the ease
of multiplying two numbers and difficulty of factoring the product of large
indivisible ("prime") numbers.


Installation Instructions

You will use defaults everywhere.

1. Download and install Eudora lite 3.05 (eul305.exe)
	from http://eudora.qualcomm.com/eudoralight/
	This creates c:\Eudora by default.

	Use Tools | Options | Getting Started and Hosts to specify
	your POP email account (e.g., joe@xyz.com) and your
	SMTP (outgoing) host (e.g., mail.isp.com).

	TEST: Run Eudora, send yourself email, wait a minute, retrieve it, exit.

2. Download and install PGP 5 freeware (pgpinstall.exe)
	Do NOT create a key if asked to do so.  PGP 5 makes keys incompatible
	with PGP 2.6.2.  You will use a 2.6.2-compatible key you make later on.

	This creates c:\Program Files\PGP\PGP5.0 and installs a plug-in
	to Eudora.

	TEST: Start Eudora, look for PGP tools in toolbar.


Easier Setup If You Can:

1 & 2. Download Eudora + PGP together 
	from http://eudora.qualcomm.com/eudoralight/
	and install.  (I can't access this so I don't know about installing it.)
	TEST: send yourself email as above.  Check for PGP tools as above.

HERE'S THE RETRO-COMPATABILITY PART

3. Download pgp262.zip.  
	Create new directory c:\pgp262.  Go there.
	Unzip the file there.  
	Read the instructions, you may have to set some variables before using PGP262
		SET PGPPATH=C:\PGP262
		SET PATH=C:\PGP262;%PATH%
		SET TZ=PST8PDT

	While in that directory:

4. Create a 2.6.2 key with PGP 2.6.2:
	 Run "pgp -kg" and do what it says.  You will provide a username. Use
	your email address.  You will also provide a passphrase to hide your
	private key.  Pick a phrase you can remember, that others can't guess.
	You'll have to type your passphrase to prove who you are (when you
	use your private key).

5. Export your 2.6.2 key to a file:
	Run "pgp -kxa yourname mykey" where "yourname" is the username you used
	above. This creates a file mykey.asc which is your public key suitable for
emailing.

6. Import your key into PGP 5:
	Double click on the file "mykey.asc" that you just created.  

7. Make sure your PGP262 key is your Default (e.g., if you made a PGP 5 key):
	Run PGPKeys, e.g., from Eudora.  Select your key with the blue icon.
	Right-click to see its properties. Its key type should be "RSA".
	Right-click and select Set As Default.

TO TEST PGP

Send yourself a regular email addressed to the username you used above,
which should
be your email address, to verify that functionality didn't break.  Then
send a second letter, this time, select Eudora's PGP MIME button AND the
PGP Encrypt button.  Then send your letters.  Wait a bit, and retrieve your
mail as you did before.  To read the encrypted version run the Plug-in.
You will be prompted for your passphrase.

If one of your dinosaur 2.6.2 associates sends you a block of text, use the
PGP Decrypt button.  You will be
prompted for your passphrase.

To send email to other people, you will have to import their public keys.


Security Note

Your private key is hidden in the \Program Files\PGP\PGP50\SECRING.SCR
file.    Its also
in the c:\pgp262\SECRING.PGP file.

If threse files are copied by opponents, only your passphrase stands
between them and your secret key.
Your mykey.asc file is the opposite: it should be published so people can
send messages to you (and verify that you signed and sent what was received
by them, etc.) PGPKeys lets you export your key to a well-known server
which functions like a phone directory.


honig@alum.mit.edu
------------------
"Are we going after their tax returns?  I can only hope that we are,
frankly, doing a little persecuting" ---Nixon to Erlichman,
on tax audits of wealth Jewish contributors to the Democrats.
	-LA Times 1.4.98






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: V75ortex 
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 20:22:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Here
Message-ID: <156fecdf.352456aa@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

 


To: V75ortex@aol.com
Subject: Here
From: V75ortex 
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 22:14:41 EST
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Click here for 10 free
pics




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 06:24:34 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199804030627.WAA00435@ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Thu, 2 Apr 1998, Robert Hettinga wrote:

> At 2:32 AM -0500 on 4/2/98, David Honig wrote:
> > http://braggbbs.bragg.army.mil/libs/utils.htm
> > has a link to ftp://bbs.bragg.army.mil/library/utils/pgp262.zip
> 
> This is really nothing new. My understanding is that when Kelly Goen posted
> the original PGP to USENET, he set the distribution to US only, or at the
> very least North America only.
With a *.ca address, I'm wondering, in all situations do I follow the US
guidelines? Or are some different?

As for the "regulation" post, I was going to reply until I realized it was
just so she could donate email addresses to her book.

 
-confused cdn-


     







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Brown, R Ken" 
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 02:07:42 -0800 (PST)
To: Jennifer DePalma 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


> Jennifer DePalma  wrote:
> 
> >Anyone have any opinions on the feasibility of regulating the internet?
> 
Of course you can regulate the Internet, the Internet is *made*  of
regulation.  All it is is an agreement between people who run computers to
send and receive messages, and pass them on to other computers, according to
certain rules.  It is like the treaties between supposedly sovereign nation
states - you play by the rules if you want people to talk to you. 

The Internet is the best living example that you don't need governments to
have regulation (although the US government certainly helped a lot. Maybe
the Net or the Moon landings will go down in history as your pyramids or
Stonehenge, the one thing your civilisation will be remembered for). The
regulations will be made and broken and kept and changed by the people who
use the Net and no-one will ever know what they all are at any one time but
a lot of us will have a good idea of most of them, most of the time.

The Internet doesn't depend on telephone companies or governments or
undersea cables or satellites or university computing departments or cable
TV or copper wires or carrier pigeons (that reminds me - time for my annual
check up on the new RFCs :-) or  fibre optics or anything else, although it
uses all those things.  It is software, not hardware, it is a set of rules,
treaties,  agreements, protocols,  words, comments, jargon,   ideas,
thoughts. The Internet is  like money, or marriage, or table manners - while
people  act as if they believe in it,  then it will continue to exist.

Of course if what the question was  really about  the feasibility of
regulating what people use the Internet *for* - well, that's a different
question...




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 21:14:15 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: V-Chip Reruns...
Message-ID: <199804030514.HAA26081@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


A member of Peacefire (http://www.peacefire.org/join/) who has 
volunteered to pull the Fire Alarm at a White House To Be Named
Later, on April 19th, at 9:02 a.m., forwarded:

*******************************************************

[In honor of April Fool's Day, the following message about a "V-Chip
for books" was first posted on the Internet two years ago on April 1,
1996.
During that time, Internet censorship was a national concern after the
passing of the Communications Decency Act, and censorship systems for
the Internet, like the V-Chip for television, were just starting to 
gain public attention.  The news of a "V-Chip for books" was met with 
an outpouring of support from some parents who apparently didn't 
recognize it as a joke.]

[Forwarder's Note: There was also a great outpouring of support for 
 the gentleman who began the non-profit society promoting the clothing
 of animals, to cover their 'private parts.' While fools like yourself
 'work for a living,' eh?]

News Release -- April 1st, 1996

        V-chip rating system extended to books

                CLA endorses 'V-barcode' plan

The Canadian Library Association today announced its
intention to comply with the wishes of millions of
Canadians who had signed a petition decrying the increasing
presence of "vivid imagery of sex and violence" in books
targetted at children.

"Once my daughter started reading books in the 'Goose Bumps'
series", says one concerned parent, "reading became like an
addiction to her."  Even though the books were so violent and
scary the girl had nightmares.  "Soon she started reading beyond
her grade level and was getting into books with 'adult themes'."
The problem, say most busy parents, is that kids can visit
the local library and borrow anything they choose, regardless
of their family's values.

The new book rating system, modelled after television's highly
successful V-chip, has been dubbed the V-barcode, because each
book will have a machine-readable "barcode" on the spine that
encodes a rating of the book's contents on several scales:
sex, violence, coarse language, drug use, religion, and
'alternative lifestyles'.

"This isn't about censorship", says Keith Spicer, who recently
joined the CLA as policy director after leaving the CRTC, "this
is about choice, ... about empowering parents to make choices."
Under the new system, parents will select their family's
"tolerance levels" on each scale.  These are encoded as a barcode
on their child's library card.  When a child wants to borrow a
book, the librarian simply passes the library card and book over
a scanner (just like the ones used in the supermarket) and
a screen instantly displays whether authorization should
be granted.  "It's a marvel of technology", bubbles Spicer,
"it's just like the child's parent is there, saying to the child
-- 'No, we don't borrow that kind of book in this family.'".

The CLA dismisses complaints the system will be burdensome.
"We already have barcodes on most books, so the cost of the new
system will be incidental", said a CLA spokesperson.
Library patrons can expect to pay an additional $5 per year
over their normal borrowing fees.

"The V-barcode is just a small part of the overall solution
for dealing with violence in books," says Spicer.  "The best
way of dealing with bad books is to have more good books,
and we hope that once children stop borrowing the bad books
publishers will start printing books of better quality."

There are still a few wrinkles to be worked out, however.
Some skeptical parents think children might start hanging
out in libraries -- where they can still read books they
aren't allowed to borrow.  Still, to many parents, the new
system gives a parent more control over what their child reads
than is the case without this technology.  "It's a social
experiment worth trying", says one parent, "It will be
interesting to see what guidelines will be drawn up and
who will be doing the drawing.  It will force people to
reflect on ethics and reading, which is something we could
afford to be more reflective about."

Enthusiasts of the V-barcode would like to see its use expanded.
"We'd like to see the V-barcode system adopted in bookstores",
says Keith Spicer, "We've already got a pilot project going
with the Cole's Bookstore chain and the Bank of Montreal where
the parental tolerance levels are encoded into the mag-stripe
on the child's bank card."  A book purchase can be declined
at the checkout if it exceeds the family's tolerance levels.
"Cash purchases," says Spicer, "are still a problem."





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 09:47:09 -0800 (PST)
To: Sunder 
Subject: Re: illegal export of pgp.zip by .mil
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980403094710.007dd9b0@otc.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 11:10 AM 4/2/98 -0500, Sunder wrote:
>Instead of making a fuss over this, we should thank the very wise and
>very smart sysadmins at these .mil machines for providing this wonderful
>service for us.  By making themselves look totally clueless, they've provided
>for the spread of privacy and freedom of privacy!  That's truly commendable!
>
>Personally, I will raise my next glass of beer in their honor!  :)  

As of 6:57 this morning, according to the timestamp in
ftp://bbs.bragg.army.mil/library/
they removed pgp262.zip from their ftp site.  Though of course they didn't
bother to clean up
their link to it  :-P.  

Thanks to the civil servant readers of this list who phoned the boys at
Bragg.  The world is safe
again.  Apologies to the sysop who probably caught some abuse.




------------------------------------------------------------
      David Honig                   Orbit Technology
     honig@otc.net                  Intaanetto Jigyoubu

When exponentiation is outlawed, only outlaws will exponentiate.










	















From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 10:51:39 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Ex-spook tells 2 other countries their codes are toast
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980403105141.007a4560@otc.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


http://www.newsday.com/ap/rnmpwh0j.htm

Ex-CIA Worker Charged in Spy Case

                        By MICHAEL J. SNIFFEN Associated Press Writer

                        WASHINGTON (AP) -- A fired CIA covert operative was
charged today with
                        tipping off two foreign governments that the United
States had broken their code
                        systems. He was held without bond.

                        Douglas Fred Groat also was charged with trying to
extort $500,000 from the CIA
                        in return for not disclosing its secrets.

                        Groat, a 50-year-old bearded and burly man, worked
for the CIA from May 1980
                        through October 1996 but spent the last three of
those years on administrative
                        leave. The grand jury charged that he gave secrets
about U.S. code-breaking to
                        two foreign governments, which were not named, in
March and April of 1997.

                        The grand jury said that Groat attempted to extort
money from the CIA began
                        before his alleged turncoat activities and
continued after them. The grand jury said
                        the attempted extortion lasted from May 1996 until
February 1998.

                        All four espionage counts allege that the spying
took place between March 24,
                        1997 and some time in April 1997.

                        A federal grand jury said in its indictment that
Groat gave both foreign countries
                        classified information concerning ``the targeting
and compromise of the
                        cryptographic systems of ... (the foreign country)
by the United States with intent
                        and reason to believe that said information would
be used to the injury of the
                        United States.''

                        Groat, who was arrested Wednesday night without
incident by the FBI, entered a
                        not guilty plea through his attorney, at federal
courthouse here, to all five counts
                        against him. Two of the counts carry a maximum
penalty of death.

                        Prosecutor Eric Dubelier persuaded U.S. District
Judge Norma Holloway Johnson
                        to continue holding the burly and bearded Groat
without bail by calling him ``a risk
                        of flight and a danger to the community.''

                        ``Based on his former employment with the CIA, he
is trained in travel and false
                        identity and deception,'' Dubelier said. ``He has
no ties to the community and he
                        possesses sensitive classified information'' that
could be communicated to foreign
                        nations if he were allowed to go free.

                        Johnson said that a federal grand jury had returned
a sealed indictment March 27
                        which included four counts of communicating secret
defense information to a
                        foreign government and one count of interference
with commerce.

                        Two of the counts of conveying secrets carry the
death penalty. It was not
                        immediately known which countries were involved.
Federal officials requesting
                        anonymity said there was more than one.

                        Groat himself did not speak during the 10-minute
initial appearance. Muscular and
                        heavy-set with black hair and a mustache, he
appeared in court wearing dark blue
                        jail trousers and shirt. He held his hands clasped
in front of him as he stood beside
                        his attorney, public defender A.J. Kramer.

                        The judge set a detention hearing for next
Thursday. And Dubelier said the
                        government would use the Classified Information
Procedures Act to prevent
                        secrets from being disclosed at trial.

                        Groat was the third current or former CIA employee
to be arrested for espionage
                        in the last four years.

                        He was fired from the CIA under circumstances that
officials would not
                        immediately disclose. They said he held a lower
rank than two of the biggest spies
                        ever caught inside the CIA -- Aldrich Ames, who
headed counterintelligence
                        against Moscow while secretly working for the
Russians, and Harold Nicholson,
                        who was a CIA station chief abroad while selling
secrets to Moscow. Ames and
                        Nicholson pleaded guilty in plea bargains with the
government.

                        An official familiar with the investigation said
the probe into this former CIA
                        employee ``does not rise to the level of the
Aldrich Ames case'' in terms of the
                        suspected damage to U.S. security.

                        Ames was arrested in 1994 and was sentenced to life
in prison without the chance
                        for parole. Ames gave the Soviets the names of at
least a dozen high-level moles
                        inside the Soviet government who were providing
information to the CIA. Many of
                        them were arrested and executed based on Ames'
information.

                        Nicholson gave the Russians the names of new CIA
recruits whom he helped
                        train. Officials said that limited where they could
serve later in their careers.

                        The CIA employee in this case worked at the ageny's
headquarters in Northern
                        Virginia and it was not clear if he had ever served
overseas.

                        The FBI was not seeking any accomplices in the
case, but officials would not say
                        whether any foreign diplomats were being expelled
from this country.

                        The names of the countries involved with the CIA
employee could not immediately
                        be learned.

                        The House and Senate intelligence committees were
kept informed of the
                        investigation into the spying charges as it
proceeded, congressional officials said
                        today, speaking on condition of anonymity.

                        An official said Senators have been actively
involved in following the investigation
                        since its inception.''

                        AP-NY-04-03-98 1331EST
------------------------------------------------------------
      David Honig                   Orbit Technology
     honig@otc.net                  Intaanetto Jigyoubu

When exponentiation is outlawed, only outlaws will exponentiate.










	















From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: rdonnovan@hotmail.com
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 13:47:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Golden Portfolio and Ca$h
Message-ID: <199804032147.NAA29714@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Introducing "7MG's" Golden Portfolio and the amazing    
7 MILLION DOLLAR GENERATOR!!!!

Make all your financial dreams come true within a 
few weeks!

5 people= $7,000,000!!!

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small one-time stake. 

The GP"7-Million-Dollar-List" concept is extremely simple yet 
brilliant in it's ability to create profits for all participants with a 
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for company checks as all payments received are money orders..
straight to you!

No complicated spillovers, matrixes or other MLM non-sense.
This is a simple program which requires no work other than
the 10 steps listed below. 

The program is legal in that a product is exchanged for the
$160, a portfolio of information on such topics as effective
marketing, travel discounts, anonymous bank accounts etc.
7MG will deliver the product to your customers and monitor
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directly to you for a one time $20 fee.

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There are seven positions on the  GP"7-Million-Dollar-List".

 Your one-time stake is US $160.
#1. Send $30 to the person in position 7   (your sponsor)
#2. Send $10 to the person in position 4   (bonus position)
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Instructions:

1. Set up a fed-ex account. It's fast and super easy!
Call 1-800Gofedex or set up online at http://www.fedex.com
(You must set this account up, all packages will be tracked 
using the fedex software and any mail-based correspondence 
from "7MG" will be sent using your account number.)

2. Print and fill out the membership registration form
below.

3. Fax the form to 7MG for approval.(the list has to be 
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proceed to step #4.

4. Obtain 4 money orders in the amounts listed and 
obtain 4 Fedex airbills.

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destination and do the same for the airbills.

6. Write the tracking codes of the airbills on the 
money order slips.

7. Make a copy of all 4 money orders on one sheet of 
paper and Fax it to 1-847-759-2343

8. Mail out the money orders in the Fedex packages
the same day by standard overnight express. Important!

9. When we receive your faxed copy of the money orders you
will receive the golden portfolio and a copy of this
letter with your name in the #7 spot with a letter code
protector.

10. Proceed to send your letter out through e-mail. Remember
your goal is at least 5 participants. Don't stop until you
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------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
(Print and Fax to 1-847-759-2343) Membership Registration: 

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golden portfolio*. Please register my details and send 
approval for this list right away!

Fed-ex account number__________________________

Email address _________________________________    

Fax Number _________________________________    
                                                                
Name _______________________________________     
                              
Address______________________________________
(You must use a regular street address, FED-Ex will not 
ship to P.O. boxes. If you don't want to use your home 
address try a place like Mail Boxes Etc.)

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State____________Zip Code_____________________     

Country_____________________________

Letter Protector Code  #4285

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Position 1 (prime postion), send US $100     
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4416 W. 170th street #A  
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Gardena, CA 90249

Monitor/Registration fee send US $20:
7MG
195 Stevens Ave.
Columbus, OH 43222




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 181855d6 <181855d6@msn.com>
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 22:32:32 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <19943672.886214@relay.comanche.denmark.eu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Authenticated sender is <181855d6@msn.com>
Subject:  and
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

EMAIL MARKETING WORKS!!

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: info@inexchange.net (Information Desk)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 14:00:50 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Advertisement: Website Hosting
Message-ID: <19980403200355480.FXZ157@out.inexchange.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: info@inexchange.net (Information Desk)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 00:27:15 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Advertisement: Website Hosting
Message-ID: <19980403220442206.FYA175@out.inexchange.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mike 
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 11:51:35 -0800 (PST)
To: Sunder 
Subject: Re: illegal export of pgp.zip by .mil
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <35253C1A.EA48DECE@mail.nevalink.ru>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Guys, what are you talking about? Just go through any proxy that ends
with .us or .net or .com (or Anonymizer) and give any e-mail address
from hotmail or yahoo.com or anything else - and MIT pgp will be yours
in few minutes.

If this means "restrictions" I'm sorry ;)

Mike

Sunder wrote:
> 
> Instead of making a fuss over this, we should thank the very wise and
> very smart sysadmins at these .mil machines for providing this wonderful
> service for us.  By making themselves look totally clueless, they've provided
> for the spread of privacy and freedom of privacy!  That's truly commendable!
> 
> Personally, I will raise my next glass of beer in their honor!  :)
> 
> Robert Hettinga wrote:
> >
> > At 2:32 AM -0500 on 4/2/98, David Honig wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > http://braggbbs.bragg.army.mil/libs/utils.htm
> > > has a link to ftp://bbs.bragg.army.mil/library/utils/pgp262.zip
> >
> > This is really nothing new. My understanding is that when Kelly Goen posted
> > the original PGP to USENET, he set the distribution to US only, or at the
> > very least North America only.
> >
> > However, some mis-configured news machine actually exported PGP to the rest
> > of the world by ignoring the distribution request on those news messages.
> >
> > The machine in question had a .mil domain name. :-).
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Bob Hettinga
> 
> --
> 
> =====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos==============
> .+.^.+.|  Ray Arachelian    |Prying open my 3rd eye.  So good to see |./|\.
> ..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were      |/\|/\
> <--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run  |\/|\/
> ../|\..| "A toast to Odin,  |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/.
> .+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were....            |.....
> ======================= http://www.sundernet.com ==========================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 1998 22:00:20 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com (Cypherpunks)
Subject: Ex-CIA Officer Charged with Spying (fwd)
Message-ID: <199804040558.XAA10728@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text


nikst wrote:
> From nikst@glasnet.ru  Fri Apr  3 22:08:12 1998
> Message-Id: 
> X-SMTP-Spy: Real message sender is nikst@glasnet.ru via ppp1575.glas.apc.org
> From: "nikst" 
> Subject: Ex-CIA Officer Charged with Spying
> 
> Friday April 3 5:01 PM EST 
> 
> Ex-CIA Officer Charged with Spying
> 
> By James Vicini 
> 
> WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A disgruntled former CIA officer has been arrested on
> spy charges
> alleging he passed secrets to two foreign nations about how the agency
> eavesdropped on their
> coded communications, U.S. officials said Friday. 
> 
> Douglas Groat, 50, who worked at the Central Intelligence Agency for 16 years
> until being fired
> in 1996, also was charged with trying to extort more than $500,000 from the spy
> agency in return
> for not revealing secrets to foreign governments. 
> 
> During a brief court hearing, a lawyer for Groat entered a not guilty plea to
> the five charges, two
> of which carry a possible death penalty. The case was the latest spy scandal to
> rock the CIA in
> recent years. 
> 
> U.S. Attorney Wilma Lewis said after the hearing that Groat participated during
> his CIA career
> in classified covert operations aimed at the penetration of cryptographic
> systems of foreign
> governments. 
> 
> He allegedly disclosed national defense information concerning the targeting
> and compromise of
> the cryptographic systems of two unidentified foreign governments to those
> governments, she
> told reporters outside the courthouse. 
> 
> The indictment alleged that he handed over the secrets to representatives of
> the foreign nation
> "with intent and reason to believe that said information would be used to the
> injury of the United
> States and to the advantage of a foreign nation." 
> 
> "The alleged unauthorized disclosure of these activities could have a
> significant impact on the
> national security of the United States," said Lewis, whose office will
> prosecute the case. 
> 
> "This case involves highly sensitive classified information that could have a
> serious impact on
> the national security of the United States. In short this is a serious
> espionage case," she said. 
> 
> The alleged espionage took place in late March and April 1997 while the alleged
> extortion
> scheme began in May 1996 and lasted until February 1998, the officials said.
> Groat was
> arrested by FBI agents without incident on Thursday. 
> 
> After prosecutors warned that Groat may try to flee the country, Chief U.S.
> District Judge Norma
> Holloway Johnson ordered Groat held without bond until next Thursday, when
> there will be
> another hearing. 
> 
> Prosecutor Eric Dubelier told the judge that Groat had been trained by the CIA
> "in traveling in
> false identification and deception." 
> 
> He said Groat possessed sensitive intelligence information which could cause
> "grave damage"
> to national security if disclosed. 
> 
> Groat, who was dressed in dark-blue prison clothing, stood before the judge
> during the hearing
> with his hands behind his back. Groat once conferred with his court-appointed
> lawyers, but
> never said anything during the proceeding held under unusually heavy security. 
> 
> George Tenet, the head of the CIA, said in a statement the full extent of any
> damage to national
> security has yet to be determined. 
> 
> "The charges against Mr Groat are extremely serious," Tenet said. "His arrest
> demonstrates that
> the U.S. government will not rest in our efforts against those who would commit
> espionage ...
> nor will we be intimidated by threats of blackmail." 
> 
> Groat worked as a technical officer in the CIA's Directorate for Science and
> Technology. He
> last had access to classified information in 1993, when he has placed on
> administrative leave. 
> 
> Officials said it will be up to Attorney General Janet Reno to decide whether
> to seek the death
> penalty in the case. They said the year-old investigation would continue. 
> 
> The case is the latest in a series of embarrassing spy cases involving the CIA.
> 
> 
> CIA turncoat Aldrich Ames was arrested in 1994 and has pleaded guilty to
> betraying at least 11
> Soviet and East European agents working for the United States in one of the
> most damaging
> espionage cases in U.S. history. 
> 
> Ames, a career officer who spent much of his 31 years in the CIA in
> counterintelligence, is
> serving a life sentence in a U.S. prison. 
> 
> Confessed double-agent Harold Nicholson pleaded guilty last year to spying for
> Moscow,
> becoming the highest-ranking CIA officer convicted in a spy case. 
> 
> Nicholson, a 16-year CIA veteran who uncloaked students he helped train for
> undercover
> missions, admitted collecting $300,000 from the Russians. 
> 
> **********
> 
> 



	- Igor.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 02:45:25 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: V-Chip Reruns...
In-Reply-To: <199804030514.HAA26081@basement.replay.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980404012627.008b5c90@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 07:14 AM 4/3/98 +0200, Asynchronous wrote:
>"Once my daughter started reading books in the 'Goose Bumps'
>series", says one concerned parent, "reading became like an
>addiction to her."  Even though the books were so violent and
>scary the girl had nightmares.  "Soon she started reading beyond
>her grade level and was getting into books with 'adult themes'."
>The problem, say most busy parents, is that kids can visit
>the local library and borrow anything they choose, regardless
>of their family's values.

While this was a parody, I did recently see a TV news segment
discussing ratings regulations on TV and the Internet.
They interviewed one parent who was quite concerned -
her daughter had her own TV in her bedroom, and there
was no way to know what she might be watching, what with
cable tv carrying all sorts of things.....
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Toto" 
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 03:07:47 -0800 (PST)
To: "Bill Stewart" 
Subject: Re: V-Chip Reruns...
Message-ID: <003001bd5fca$5c72c5a0$1163a58e@uymfdlvk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


A member of the Clinton/Gates ratpack wrote:

:While this was a parody, I did recently see a TV news segment
:discussing ratings regulations on TV and the Internet.
:They interviewed one parent who was quite concerned -
:her daughter had her own TV in her bedroom, and there
:was no way to know what she might be watching, what with
:cable tv carrying all sorts of things.....


Sounds like we need some federal, state, county, municipal and local
legislation passed in regard to these concerns.
I think it should involve felony convictions for both the parent and the
child.

When criminal records are outlawed, only outlaws will have criminal
records...I think...

~~~~
Toto  
~~~~
"The Xenix Chainsaw Massacre"
http://www.clas.net/~dave/public/xenix

"WebWorld & the Mythical Circle of Eunuchs"
http://www.clas.net/~dave/public/webworld

"InfoWar -- The Digital Revolution"
http://www.clas.net/~dave/public/infowar3

"Space Aliens Hide My Drugs"
http://www.clas.net/~dave/public/sahmd






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 07:52:23 -0800 (PST)
To: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Subject: Re: ROTFL!
In-Reply-To: <199804041124.NAA29738@basement.replay.com>
Message-ID: <199804041551.JAA14757@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text


Thanks(spit)

igor

Anonymous wrote:
> 
> 
>     Do any of you cocksuckers know where the following comes from?  URL?
> 
> A shit-eating grin spread across Dr. Vulis' face as he realized that, this
> time, he had been caught for doing something he wouldn't be punished for.
> Rewarded, perhaps?
> Cautiously, Dr. Vulis asked Igor, "So can I have more medication? All of the
> others in treatment here are getting better drugs than me, because they are
> patients being treated by doctors. Why am I the only doctor being treated by
> a patient?"
> 
> "Now Dimitri," Igor shook his head, negatively, "you are exaggerating again.
> You know that John Young and Robert Hettinga are the only two here who are
> getting better drugs than you, and it is only occasionally, when they share
> a room, and then only in order to increase their pleasure when they engage
> in...uuhhh...CypherPunk activities."
> 
> Dimitri got angry, as Igor knew would result from feeding his fantasies, "I
> know what you're talking about!" Dimitri always got...uuhhh...'excited', when
> this subject came up.
> "They're sucking each other's cocks! This place is full of cocksuckers, and
> the biggest one of all is cocksucker John  Gilmore !"
> 
> 



	- Igor.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Brian B. Riley" 
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 09:11:19 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: Re: V-Chip Reruns...
Message-ID: <199804041711.MAA18427@mx02.together.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On 4/4/98 8:04 AM, Toto (toto@sk.sympatico.ca)  passed this wisdom:

>A member of the Clinton/Gates ratpack wrote:
>
>:While this was a parody, I did recently see a TV news segment
>:discussing ratings regulations on TV and the Internet.
>:They interviewed one parent who was quite concerned -
>:her daughter had her own TV in her bedroom, and there
>:was no way to know what she might be watching, what with
>:cable tv carrying all sorts of things.....
>

 Not to sound like a first amendment basher, but if these parents are
worried about what their daughter is viewing on her own TV in the
bedroom, why don't they take it the hell out of there and have her watch
TV in the family room. The implication is that she is young enough for
them to be concerned about her impressionability. If she is that young,
isn't that simply good parenting? Seems to me like a no brainer ... but
then again, what the hell do I know .. I raised four kids (youngest 16)
who all seem to have their heads on reasonably straight and have yet to
be named in any indictments.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0
Charset: noconv

iQEUAwUBNSZpqj7r4fUXwraZAQFzswf3Q/qvIBVtGf935EiVL2QMPOucfx1WiOAv
3X1j1d5J58hFoLjdOEtCXCkMj0EecugXd9gL47bAW+HTBAD5h2rNKvyvoWCwksn2
EcYPj/1GMweMUUrfHwQ/TNVdkMRF0zTN3zVItwDlrIWqdpLSfzoWea/kWOuI2mNz
g8zwBz8L/AfEPeqJVhTpPtLnDsxaHuYioSliPdGc8Vwt2k+56axScqgXhysivjpI
SOhStm9LiJrkkTo2h15MwbSJWlWMt+HTs9Rmt+QGq72cba+sXIcsNoYn0NpG0mVJ
QIM3ZS93vCJuH7W4FxoirmZrwoG1NZtFLGmlMZMTfKxhI0Ca7kU9
=anJu
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


Brian B. Riley --> http://members.macconnect.com/~brianbr
 For PGP Keys  

 "But it is said: Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are 
subtle 
  and quick to anger." - Gildor (_The Lord of the Rings_, by J.R.R. 
Tolkien)






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: promote@mlsa1.com
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 09:26:39 -0800 (PST)
To: promote@mlsa1.com
Subject: MINI DISH Satellite retailers ....
Message-ID: <199804041726.JAA07197@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 09:25:18 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: HIRF/EMI Source
Message-ID: <199804041725.MAA05651@camel7.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


The USAF's 22-volume 1996 investigation of the Ron Brown
plane crash supposedly offers in Volume 2 one of the best 
unclassified recent accounts of High Intensity Radio Frequency 
(HIRF) and electromagnetic interference (EMI). 

We've been told that the report's available only in hardcopy 
from the Air Force -- a few copies were publically released
in June 1996 at a Pentagon press conference. We'd like to 
get a copy of Volume 2 to scan the HIRF and EMI parts but 
cannot locate the proper office for a request -- www.af.mil 
does not appear to offer the report.

We'd appreciate hearing from anyone who might have 
access to Volume 2 and would be willing to loan or know 
how we can get it.

-----

State's Jamie Rubin yesterday confirmed Russia's SIGINT
operation at Lourdes, Cuba but declined comment on the US 
counterpart. Dave Emery wrote about this awhile back:

   http://jya.com/rusigint.htm

Someday we might learn what the US military knows about 
EMI attacks on critical infrastructure, planes, ships, trains and 
limos -- theirs and ours.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 03:24:12 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: ROTFL!
Message-ID: <199804041124.NAA29738@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


    Do any of you cocksuckers know where the following comes from?  URL?

A shit-eating grin spread across Dr. Vulis' face as he realized that, this
time, he had been caught for doing something he wouldn't be punished for.
Rewarded, perhaps?
Cautiously, Dr. Vulis asked Igor, "So can I have more medication? All of the
others in treatment here are getting better drugs than me, because they are
patients being treated by doctors. Why am I the only doctor being treated by
a patient?"

"Now Dimitri," Igor shook his head, negatively, "you are exaggerating again.
You know that John Young and Robert Hettinga are the only two here who are
getting better drugs than you, and it is only occasionally, when they share
a room, and then only in order to increase their pleasure when they engage
in...uuhhh...CypherPunk activities."

Dimitri got angry, as Igor knew would result from feeding his fantasies, "I
know what you're talking about!" Dimitri always got...uuhhh...'excited', when
this subject came up.
"They're sucking each other's cocks! This place is full of cocksuckers, and
the biggest one of all is cocksucker John  Gilmore !"






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: promote@mlsa1.com
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 15:09:36 -0800 (PST)
To: promote@mlsa1.com
Subject: MAKE MONEY AND LIVE WELL!!!
Message-ID: <81193368_94580684>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: FBI@FBI.GOV
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 22:37:24 -0800 (PST)
To: @toad.com
Subject: Please Read
Message-ID: <199804050637.WAA26365@cygint.cygnus.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/html



<A HREF="http://www.electriciti.com/ldagrosa">CLICK HERE!! free pics!!





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 15:37:03 -0700 (PDT)
To: David Honig 
Subject: Re: What's up in SASEBO, or Don't Tug The Beard
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980405112845.007c1990@otc.net>
Message-ID: <199804052236.SAA32290@camel7.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


David Honig wrote:

>From: "George Martin" 
>
>>Maybe you should've checked out the url to see if it was
>>valid before you shot your mouth off in public... The file
>>was removed quite a few months ago and was never download
>>by anyone outside of the .mil domain.  Take your
>>troublemaking somewhere else.
>
>I of course informed him that he was mininformed or uninformed.

Correct, David. Following your notice, we saved Ft. Bragg's
utility listing on April 2 and downloaded its military-grade pgp262 
for patriotic display in the public interest at:

   http://jya.com/pgp-mil-export.htm






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 10:05:20 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199804051705.TAA08923@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


"Perhaps the most defining feature of the CypherPunks was that they strove
to 'walk their talk', as the saying was in those days. While they decried
the increasing infringement of central authority on the freedom and privacy
of the individual, which was near its zenith at that point in time, they
chose to fight for the right to be self-willed, rather than to impose their
will and beliefs on others.
"Instead of concentrating their efforts on forcing the authorities to acting
rightly, in the interests of freedom and privacy, they focused on routing
around the impositions and infringements that the governments and dark
forces of that era enacted to try to contain them.
"John Gilmore, one of the CypherPunks founders, often said, 'The InterNet
interprets censorship as damage, and routes around it.' Very Taoist." Bubba
concluded.

Jonathan spoke softly, quoting a section of the Tao Te Ching which had been
a particular favorite of his grandfathers,
"A man of Virtue performs his part,
"But a man without Virtue requires others to fulfill their obligations.
"The Tao of heaven is impartial.
"It stays with good men all the time."

http://bureau42.base.org/public/xenix






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 05:10:15 -0700 (PDT)
To: Bill Stewart 
Subject: Re: Leahy's Crypto Wake-up Call
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980405232651.0089bb10@popd.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <199804061210.IAA23492@users.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


In <3.0.5.32.19980405232651.0089bb10@popd.ix.netcom.com>, on 04/05/98 
   at 11:26 PM, Bill Stewart  said:

>>>  Third, legislation should establish both procedures and 
>>>standards for access by law enforcement to decryption keys 
>>>or decryption assistance for both encrypted communications 
>>>and stored electronic information and only permit such access  upon court
>>>order authorization, with appropriate notice and  other procedural
>>>safeguards;
>>
>>And just *how* do they plan on doing this without either backdoors or
>>escrow??

>Easy, Constitutional, and doesn't need any new legislation -  all you
>need is a warrant or subpoena to tell anybody to produce those records
>and materials they have.
>If they didn't save a recording of their telephone call or email, or
>think the Fifth Amendment reasonably prohibits them
>from being compelled to incriminate themselves,
>then the prosecution doesn't get anything.  No problem,
>and it's worked quite well for 200+ years.

Well call me a cynic but in reading section #3 I take that as to mean
access without the help or cooperation of the person(s) who did the
encryption.

If they are willing to rely on the Constitution then why push for new, and
as you mentioned, unneeded legislation?

I think the rest of this is just window dressing for organizations like
the EFF, et al who are just bursting to make a deal.


I smell a lawyer in the woodpile.

-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/esecure.html                        
---------------------------------------------------------------





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: dental@cheerful.com
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 19:07:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: $9 dental, vision & prescription drugs plan
Message-ID: <199804060206.TAA18463@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


****************************************************************
This is not unsolicited email.
Your email address was routed to our "auto send" program stating 
that you wish to receive information about our dental, vision & 
prescription drug program. If your email address was referred to 
our "auto send" in error, please type "REMOVE" in the subject 
line and the "auto send" will remove your email address.
****************************************************************


******* DENTAL PLAN

$9 per month for a single person
$15 per month for entire household, (everyone at your house)

**No waiting period, No limit on visits or services, Braces 
included, Cosmetic dentistry included, specialist included, 
pre-existing conditions are covered, No deductible, No age limit, 
No claim forms, You can change dentist whenever you want.

******* VISION CARE

Free with $9/$15 dental plan

**Over 12,000 optical providers nationwide, save up to 60%, save 
up to 60% on contact lenses, save up to 30% on eye exams and 
surgery, save up to 50% on all non-prescription sunglasses, 30 
day unconditional money back guarantee, only national plan 
endorsed by the Opticians Association of America.

******* PRESCRIPTION DRUGS

Free with $9/$15 dental plan

**Over 35,000 retail pharmacy locations nationwide including most 
chain pharmacies and independent pharmacies, save up to 50% on 
prescription drugs, all prescription drugs are covered both at 
the retail pharmacy and by mail order.

If you want to sign up for the dental program just follow the 
directions below. 

FAX the following to DENTAL PLAN. 
The fax number is 1-713-266-0390.

DENTAL PLAN
Name
Address
City, State, Zip code
Day Phone #
Night Phone #
Fax Phone #
Email address

We are currently needing brokers for the $9/$15 Dental Plan. If 
you or someone you know is looking for an additional income 
PLEASE LET US KNOW when you fax the above information. The Dental 
Broker program has a nice up front pay cycle and a very good 
residual for as long as the person is in the dental plan. And 
there is no license required to be a broker.

So let us know about the dental and if you know of someone 
wanting to be a broker. Tell them to contact us by faxing the 
same information.

Thank you again for your interest.

Cliff





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Toto" 
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 19:10:33 -0700 (PDT)
To: "CypherPunks" 
Subject: April Fool ! / Off-schedule, off-topic, or out-of-sync?
Message-ID: <001701bd6100$d9911460$2c62a58e@uymfdlvk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


  Strange things happen when one gets sucked into a BlackHole TimeWarp
filled with imaginary Outlaw Quarks and PseudoReptilian Identity-Bots.
  When this happens, and you just have to *tell* somebody, there is nowhere
to turn except to the CypherPunks Disturbed Male List, where this kind of
thing seems to happen all the time, judging from the multi-dimensional
personalities displayed by various list members in both their 'consistent'
(hee-hee) and 'adjustable' list personas.

  I woke up this morning to discover that my world had been turned upside
down by the ancient ancestor and fortuitous forerunner of the Y2K Bug--the
H1H Mite.

  The H1H Mite, kissing cousin to the Snipe, exists only in men's minds
(hence its proximity to April 1st) but, like the infield-fly rule, it is
recognized as a living, breathing entity deserving of recognition,
regulation, and even it's own pseudo-jingle--"Spring forward, fall back."

  Having spent a good part of my life living in Arizona and Saskatchewan,
where we, like the sun, moon and stars, sit back on our lazy asses while the
majority of the world is springing forward and falling back through the
time-space continuum, I am used to watching huge masses of people 'gain' and
'lose' a piece of the solar time-pie to the Tick-Tock TimeWarp and jump
through the various hoops necessary to make certain that the Sacred Clock of
Tick-Tock is not fooled into shorting or longing (?) the various elements of
Sacred Time, such as paychecks, billing periods, interest charges, etc.

  When I saw my computer clock had 'sprung forward,' even though it does not
contain any of the springs and such which are historically an element of
Sacred Time, I took the time to jump into the appropriate area of my system
and hit it hard enough so that my clock 'fell back' to where Mother Nature
had intended for it to remain. I also took the time to solve my H1H Mite
problem by re-clicking the code-generated symbol which graphically
rearranges the rest of the virtual world so that the (GMT -6:00 No Daylight
Savings) Sacred TimeZone hovers over my computer and pronounces it to now
officially be in Saskatchewan, though I, personally, never saw it move.
  The H1H Mite did cost me a bit of time and trouble to eradicate, as well
as a small amount of computer resources, but,. enterprising genius that I
am, I did not lose the ranch, the family fortune, or even miss a meal, as a
result of the having to deal with the little critter on my own in-house
computer system. The effect of the H1H Mite on the part of my environment
which falls outside of my control, however, had potentially devastating
consequences.

  Upon waking this morning and checking Channel 10, which shows the
currently scheduled TV shows, I quickly noticed that the Preview Channel
Sacred Clock had 'sprung forward,' dragging the schedule along in its wake.
  The stability of my whole world was, as a result, thrown into complete
turmoil, and it was only a few hours later, when some Blessed Angel of Mercy
corrected the situation, that my world regained some semblance of normality.
Now I understood how the people who are used to watching Jerry Springer in
the mornings on WUHF-TV felt when the station moved the show to the
afternoon, in order to herd Jerry Springer fans into the trough next to
their Sacred Five O'Clock News feeding pen.
  The experience of turning to a certain channel to watch a 'listed' show
and stumbling into a BlackHole in which I was subjected to the sights and
sounds of unusual and/or unfamiliar combinations of electronic bytes flying
by had struck such terror into me that I now understood why Jerry Springer's
morning fans had deluged WUHF-TV with demands that the show be switched back
to its normal morning schedule. It also explained an event that I had
witnessed, and had thought rather 'normally bizarre' at the time, in terms
of the vulnerability of those addicted to the ElectronOpiate when threatened
with the disruption of their scheduled fix.

  The VicePres/GenMan of  WUHF-Detroit had, during an important, highlighted
Editorial Sight&Sound Byte, solemnly explained to the JerryJunkies that the
purpose of the time-move had been to prop up the station's Sacred Five
O'Clock NewsTeam, which apparently was not serving a 'slop' of sufficient
quality that would entice FreeRanging TVSheeple to be attracted to the
trough from wherever else they happened to be grazing at the time. He
proceeded to explain that they had moved their most popular feeding pen next
to their Sacred NewsFeed Trough in order to make the trough the easiest
choice for those who had not been sated by the physical and emotional
violence of the Jerry Springer Feeding Pen, and wanted to drink up the blood
and chew on the pieces of flesh thrown into the Sacred Five O'Clock News
Trough.
  What I found bizarre and troubling was that the BigShot then proceeded to
sound genuinely hurt that the station had--in moving the show back to its
morning time slaught (not a typo) out of a genuine concern arising from the
painful bleats of the many TVSheeple  who cried out to the station in agony
when their JSFix failed to arrive on time--somehow become 'victimized' in
the process.Taking a page or two out of the PBS fundraising encyclopaedia,
he pointed out that, in view of the fact that WUHF-TV had acted so
self-lessly in coming to the aid of those who the station was generously
providing with their MorningFix, that WeTheSheeple were now somehow
obligated to repay that generosity by getting their EveningFix from the
WUHF-TV connection, even if it meant leaving their current grazing area near
a NewsFeed Trough with superior swill, and supporting WUHF-TV's
EveningConnection, even though the NewsFix they provided would not provide a
NewsBuzz comparable to that of their competitors.
  Not only were the subliminal digital implants of the PBS GuiltMobile
blatantly being hijacked for the use of a commercial TV station, but the
BigShot from ProfitTV also invoked the unspoken VeiledThreat that, if the
TVJunkies failed to comply, there was the possibility that the Sheeple would
no longer have their JerrySpringerFix Connection to kick around any more.

  As a result of being tossed back and forth in unfamiliar virtual territory
as a result of the intrusion of the H1H Mite in my life, I found myself
objectively viewing the Sight&Sound Bytes that passed randomly through my
perceptive field, without benefit of the usual AutoProgrammed ThoughtHelper
spices been added to the mix of the slop being served up to my  normally
nondiscrimatorial palete.
  Thus it was that, not being preprogrammed and already caught up in the
'story' being promoted by the narrators of a women's tennis tournament in
South Africa, I was able to notice that the woman who lost the championship
match seemed to take it as a matter of stride when she came up short, as
well as the shit-eating grin she had on her face when the SecondGuy
expressed regret for having to hand her a check for only $60,000, and then
proceeded to give an unusually deep and prolonged advertising sound-byte for
the loser's skill, character, and value to her country.
  I also found myself able, not having been hypnotized into believing
anything the narrator's voices told me, to connect the dots between various
facts which quickly became obvious.
1. This was a Special Anniversary of  the Tournament.
2. This was the first time a homegrown Cinderella had won the tournament.
3. The Story Book Ending (TM) was worth a fortune to the club, country and
sponsers.
4. Cinderella had entered the tournament "to practice." She came out of
nowhere, to win.
5. Her opponent in the final committed 51 "unforced errors" in two short
sets.
6. Ms. Cinderella was backed by the deep pockets of Nike.

  I find it notable that the short reality-shock delivered by my cable
company's fumbling of the ball in dealing with the H1H Mite, for a
relatively short period of time, could result in my being roused from my
comfortable TVReality Slumber to the extent that I would be forced to use my
senses to interpret the information input being digitally transferred to my
brain, instead of having it automatically pre-categorized for insertion to
the proper VirtualReality Slot.
  The Automatic Doors of Perception slid open so widely that I could now
recognize the operation of universal human qualities and impulses which are
normally veiled from our consciousness by the fog of the repetitively banal
OfficialStory to which we are invariably subjected to by those we have
chosen as our RealityReporters, be they reporters, columnists, advertisers,
spin-doctors, authority-figures, or whatever...
  In the disorientation of my Regular Programming (pardon the pun), I could
clearly see the same human quality of conscience, and impulse to confess,
that results in:
1. Criminals unexpectedly facing questioning by Mr. GoodGuy and Mr. BadGuy,
and letting leak details of the Forbidden Truth in regard to the crimes they
have committed because of the remaining vestiges of resistance that their
TrueSoul has to THE LIE.
2. Tennis champions unexpectedly thrown into the limelight letting leak the
fact that their victory was the direct result of their opponent's
unperterbed demeanor in handing them the championship on a silver platter.
Tournament Chairpersons being unable to speak a single sentence without some
unconscious reference to the tremendous promotional and monetary benefit
resulting from Cinderella taking center stage in the GreatPlay which had
just been 'produced.'
3. TruthMongers with a history of laughing at the stupidity of the
AutoProgrammed Sheeple becoming so shell-shocked and disoriented by a minor
disruption of their normal routine that they let leak the fact that they are
merely a member of an equally programmed Sheeple of One Cult which considers
itself to be a cut above those who the MindMasters are carving into steaks
in preparation for their being fed to the insatiable appetites of the
PowerMongers.

  All of which leads me to wonder:
1. If the minor glitches resulting from the H1H Mite are capable of such
radical reorientation of the Automatic Doors of Perception in an Elite
Sheeple such as myself, then what will be the capacity of a vastly more
encompassing Millennium bug for causing members of the Great Herd to lose
their bearings and turn into a disoriented, scattered mass so desperate for
a Savior (TM) to show them back to their comfortable feeding pens that they
are willing to ignore the slaughter houses being built beside them.
2. How many of the Sheeple, forced by circumstances to look up from the
feeding trough, will notice what big eyes and teeth the SheepHerders have,
and realize that their self-interests might be better served by engaging in
an evolutionary mutation into a more predatorial species.
3. Will a Silver Bullet kill a Vampire Clock which sucks an hour out of
Sacred Time?
4. How many Silver Bullets does it take to kill a Millennium Bug?

"Harassment and oppression are a small price to pay for living in the land
of the free."
 ~ Nuclear PowerMonger (Homer's boss, on 'The Simpsons')

~~~~
Toto  
~~~~
"The Xenix Chainsaw Massacre"
http://bureau42.base.org/public/xenix

"WebWorld & the Mythical Circle of Eunuchs"
http://bureau42.base.org/public/webworld

"InfoWar -- The Digital Revolution"
http://bureau42.base.org/public/infowar3

"Space Aliens Hide My Drugs"
http://bureau42.base.org/public/sahmd






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 07:45:23 -0700 (PDT)
To: "Toto" 
Subject: Re: So we can expect lower taxes, now...right?
In-Reply-To: <00ec01bd6158$78aa87a0$0963a58e@uymfdlvk>
Message-ID: <199804061444.KAA25275@users.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


In <00ec01bd6158$78aa87a0$0963a58e@uymfdlvk>, on 04/06/98 
   at 06:32 AM, "Toto"  said:

>Milken was held
>up and robbed by the SEC in broad daylight for no other reason than the
>power the SEC has to extract ransoms from chosen victims."

>Furthermore, Robert concludes, "...What we have witnessed is a
>conspiracy between the SEC and the Justice Department to rob a man of $47
>million."

    The fact that government "officials" would use their power to extort
money should not come as a shock to anyone (absolute power corrupts
absolutely).

    Why they were allowed to get away with it is the interesting part.

    There is an underlying hatred of success in this country. The vast
majority of Americans loath anyone who has done better for themselves than
they have (better know as the sin of envy). This was not always the case.
At one time Americans had hopes and dreams of success. They always
believed that no matter how poor or uneducated they were their children
could find themselves on top ("Yes Johnny, someday *you* can be
President"). They understood that it was the equality of opportunity that
made this country great. That if a man, through hard work and a little
luck, could take his destiny into his own hands and become anything he
wanted.

    This is no longer true. Through decades of socialist control of the
education and entertainment industries Americans have lost the dream. They
no longer believe that their destinies are in their own hands. Rather than
looking to themselves for the solutions to their problems they look to
government. Rather than blameing their own sloth and ignorance for their
lot in life they blame those who are still willing to strive and succeed.

    Such attitudes are most prevalent among those who need to strive the
hardest. They blame the "establishment", and "angry white men", for their
plight, never once acknowledging their own complacency. When uneducated
immigrants come to this country, unable even to speak the language, and
through hard work and perseverance are able to succeed how can any
legitimacy be given to the claims of the socialist?

    Proof is all around that America is still a land of opportunity. All
one has to do is look to people like Bill Gates, who without benefit of
education or wealth, made himself one of the richest men in the world. 

    Millions of people immigrate to America as they know what
opportunities are here for them. They are not immigrating to Europe, or
Russia, or China, or Cuba because they can see what socialism has made of
these places. Unless Americans wakeup and take notice of the bankruptcy of
the victim mentality of socialism their lot in life will never improve.


-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/esecure.html                        
---------------------------------------------------------------





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Toto" 
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 20:06:37 -0700 (PDT)
To: "David Honig" 
Subject: Re: What's up in SASEBO, or Don't Tug The Beard
Message-ID: <004901bd6108$ab35bbe0$2c62a58e@uymfdlvk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


John Young, separating FACT from FUD, wrote:


:David Honig wrote:
:>From: "George Martin" 
:>>Maybe you should've checked out the url to see if it was
:>>valid before you shot your mouth off in public... The file
:>>was removed quite a few months ago and was never download
:>>by anyone outside of the .mil domain.  Take your
:>>troublemaking somewhere else.

:>I of course informed him that he was mininformed or uninformed.
:
:Correct, David. Following your notice, we saved Ft. Bragg's
:utility listing on April 2 and downloaded its military-grade pgp262
:for patriotic display in the public interest at:
:
:   http://jya.com/pgp-mil-export.htm


It mystifies me as to why government FUD disseminators seem to think that
they can spread Fear, Uncertainty and Disinformation on the InterNet with
the same blatant disregard for the facts that they employ in feeding their
mainstream media pets.
The problem with the wild animals free-ranging on the InterNet, of course,
is that not all of them have yet been domesticated and de-fanged. They can,
and will, byte back.

The problem that the InterNet poses for those government administrations and
agencies that desire to extend the unconstitutional rule of fear and
oppression into its bosom is thus:
"The InterNet interprets censorship as damage, and routes around it."
~ John Gilmore

A mountain of lies by unethical, self-serving government entities is
incapable of blocking the access of the citizens to the millions of
molehills strewn about the InterNet which are capable of bringing the
garbage that the government buries underground to the surface, where the
sight and stench of it will be available to those who wish to know the
truth.

The government does not have the resources to intimidate and persecute the
millions of individuals who are capable of placing hard evidence of
government lies on their website, or of stopping the legal dissemination of
US Forbidden Information (TM) to foreign countries, such as Canada, and the
legal forwarding of it to a variety of countries around the world through a
Canadian ISP, such as Sympatico,

I amazes me that a US citizen is subject to imprisonment for sending the
same material to a foreign country that she can legally send to the email
addresses of foreign nationals and foreign embassy employees within the US.
It particularly amazes me that those who manage to get elected to high
office by promising to be 'tough on crime,' and who stress the need for the
citizens to be protected from savage crimes--such as, say...murdering those
in authority--by labelling as criminals and punishing those who do such
things, would be so eager to enact so many far-reaching laws that an
increasing majority of the citizens are, in fact, becomimg criminals and
thus have increasingly little to lose by resisting the government's declared
intention to punish them.

The government goes to great pains to convince the citizens that violence
and killing is justified when it is directed toward The Bad Guys (TM).
Well, when you become a criminal, guess who The Bad Guys (TM) are...


~~~~
Toto  
~~~~
"The Xenix Chainsaw Massacre"
http://www.clas.net/~dave/public/xenix

"WebWorld & the Mythical Circle of Eunuchs"
http://www.clas.net/~dave/public/webworld

"InfoWar -- The Digital Revolution"
http://www.clas.net/~dave/public/infowar3

"Space Aliens Hide My Drugs"
http://www.clas.net/~dave/public/sahmd






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 20:39:46 -0700 (PDT)
To: John Young 
Subject: Re: Leahy's Crypto Wake-up Call
In-Reply-To: <199804060308.XAA25459@camel7.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <199804060339.XAA19432@users.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


In <199804060308.XAA25459@camel7.mindspring.com>, on 04/05/98 
   at 11:08 PM, John Young  said:

>  Third, legislation should establish both procedures and 
>standards for access by law enforcement to decryption keys 
>or decryption assistance for both encrypted communications 
>and stored electronic information and only permit such access  upon court
>order authorization, with appropriate notice and  other procedural
>safeguards;

And just *how* do they plan on doing this without either backdoors or
escrow??

>  Fourth, legislation should establish both procedures and 
>standards for access by foreign governments and foreign law  enforcement
>agencies to the plaintext of encrypted 
>communications and stored electronic information of United 
>States persons;

I think not.

They just don't get it.

-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/esecure.html                        
---------------------------------------------------------------





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 22:00:51 -0700 (PDT)
To: "Martin, FCC George" 
Subject: Re: An apology...
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980405215938.007ab870@otc.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 12:31 PM 4/6/98 +0900, Martin, FCC George wrote:
>Mr Honig,
>	Further investigation this morning when I got to work shows that
>your post was correct.  Apparantly the file only dissappeared a couple of
>days ago.  My apologies for my hasty words and even hastier actions.  Next
>time I'll choose a source that doesn't have anything to gain (or lose) by
>misrepresenting the facts.  Again, my apologies.
>
>Regards,
>George Martin
>

Indeed.  So that we can prevent this from happening again, I'll 
reveal my deadly hacker tools.  Alta Vista and Beer.

If that weren't enough, I wasn't even looking for a .mil site. I was
looking for pgp tips.   If you try 
http://www.altavista.digital.com/cgi-bin/query?pg=q&stq=10&what=web&kl=XX&q=
%2Bpgp+%2Btips+%2B.mil+bragg+fort&navig90.x=10&navig90.y=5
you'll find that Alta Vista's "Scooter" robot is the troublemaker.
As to his or her motives, you'll have to search for yourself.

As far as "choosing a source that doesn't have anything to gain (or lose) by
misrepresenting the facts", well, damn, if that doesn't seem to
be the pot calling the kettle black.

At least you replied from a .mil address this time, so I don't feel I'm
replying solely to some USO hack.










	honig@alum.mit.edu

Why is the CIA is so full of spies?





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 20:08:50 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Leahy's Crypto Wake-up Call
Message-ID: <199804060308.XAA25459@camel7.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Excerpt from Congressional Record, April 2, 1998:

WAKE-UP CALL ON ENCRYPTION

  Mr. LEAHY. In my view, encryption legislation should 
promote the following goals:

  First, legislation should ensure the right of Americans 
to choose how to protect the privacy and security of their 
communications and information;

  Second, legislation should bar a government-mandated key 
escrow encryption system;

  Third, legislation should establish both procedures and 
standards for access by law enforcement to decryption keys 
or decryption assistance for both encrypted communications 
and stored electronic information and only permit such access 
upon court order authorization, with appropriate notice and 
other procedural safeguards;

  Fourth, legislation should establish both procedures and 
standards for access by foreign governments and foreign law 
enforcement agencies to the plaintext of encrypted 
communications and stored electronic information of United 
States persons;

  Fifth, legislation should modify the current export regime 
for encryption to promote the global competitiveness of 
American companies;

  Sixth, legislation should not link the use of certificate 
authorities with key recovery agents or, in other words, link 
the use of encryption for confidentiality purposes with use 
of encryption for authenticity and integrity purposes;

  Seventh, legislation should, consistent with these goals of 
promoting privacy and the global competitiveness of our high-
tech industries, help our law enforcement agencies and national 
security agencies deal with the challenges posed by the use of 
encryption; and

  Eighth, legislation should protect the security and privacy 
of information provided by Americans to the government by 
ensuring that encryption products used by the government 
interoperate with commercial encryption products.

  Do you agree with these goals?

  Mr. ASHCROFT. Yes, I agree with these goals and will look to 
these same items as a reference point for the drafting, 
introducing and passage of encryption reform legislation.

  Mr. LEAHY. Would the Senator agree to work with me on 
encryption legislation that achieves these goals and that we 
could bring to the floor this Congress?

  Mr. ASHCROFT. Yes. I believe it is critical for us to address 
this issue and soon. I also believe that we should work together 
to produce a piece of legislation that demonstrates our position 
on encryption policy.

-----

Full remarks: http://jya.com/wakeup-call.txt  (18K)






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: cpl@pronet.com
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 23:20:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Free Avertising For Your Business!!
Message-ID: <199804060620.XAA29253@cygint.cygnus.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hi,

Just wanted to pass along some info about a new piece of software 
I now call my "secret weapon". It's amazing! Listen to this...

Me and hundreds of others can now reach "millions of potential 
customers" - absolutely FREE!  A lot of us are creating immediate 
"cash flow explosions" - literally overnight!
And blowing our competition right out of the water!

You have to check this thing out.  To get some details, all you 
have to do is Email a request for more info to cpl@zippp.com or 
you can also receive the information through our fax-on-demand by 
calling 1-703-478-9600 Doc#808, and you'll get some information 
faxed or email'ed right back to you in a few minutes.  If for any 
reason you have a problem retrieving the information using these 
two methods, please call our voicemail at 1-800-775-0712 ext.5413.

Take care. I'll talk with you later.

Bill:-)




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 23:28:04 -0700 (PDT)
To: "William H. Geiger III" 
Subject: Re: Leahy's Crypto Wake-up Call
In-Reply-To: <199804060308.XAA25459@camel7.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980405232651.0089bb10@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 09:37 PM 4/5/98 -0500, William H. Geiger III wrote:
>In <199804060308.XAA25459@camel7.mindspring.com>, on 04/05/98 
>   at 11:08 PM, John Young  said:
>
>>  Third, legislation should establish both procedures and 
>>standards for access by law enforcement to decryption keys 
>>or decryption assistance for both encrypted communications 
>>and stored electronic information and only permit such access  upon court
>>order authorization, with appropriate notice and  other procedural
>>safeguards;
>
>And just *how* do they plan on doing this without either backdoors or
>escrow??

Easy, Constitutional, and doesn't need any new legislation - 
all you need is a warrant or subpoena to tell anybody to
produce those records and materials they have.
If they didn't save a recording of their telephone call or email,
or think the Fifth Amendment reasonably prohibits them
from being compelled to incriminate themselves,
then the prosecution doesn't get anything.  No problem,
and it's worked quite well for 200+ years.

>>  Fourth, legislation should establish both procedures and 
>>standards for access by foreign governments and foreign law  enforcement
>>agencies to the plaintext of encrypted 
>>communications and stored electronic information of United 
>>States persons;
>
>I think not.
>They just don't get it.

There may be cases where there's some foreign jurisdiction
over communications with US persons, either travellers or
emigrants to those governments' territories, and they can
use whatever methods are locally popular; some of them,
like torture, tend to require strongly worded notes
from the State Department complaining about such behaviour.
But as you say, I think not, and no, they don't get it.

Just because Leahy is willing to allow businesses to export
things doesn't mean he isn't a tool of Big Brother.


				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSquncr 
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 20:34:48 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Nobody's Mouth
Message-ID: <39db4848.35284c48@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


A REAL "nobody" writes  (behind the list's back) - "Have you gotten rid of
that stansquncr virus yet?  You know, the one where you've been sucking dick
for $5 crackrock?  Guess not." and "Your parents should have fucking killed
themselves for having offspring like you."

"Nobody", I'll tell this to you (at least) once - 

Not only do you not seem to understand the simple nursury rhyme - 'Sticks and
stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me', you don't seem to
understand that I do.

Your friend,
Stan the Liberal
=====
KPFT 90.1 FM Houston this Wednsday night at about 9:15!




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: GreatStuff@da.net
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 23:43:36 -0700 (PDT)
To: WebFriend@toad.com
Subject: Thanks a lot!!
Message-ID: <199804060643.XAA20899@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hello and Welcome to Freeyellow Web Pages !
You are about to discover one of the biggest 
opportunities on the Net today ! 

Currently Freeyellow has given out over
170,000 free web pages to people just like you. 

Within the next two years that number is expected to 
grow to more than 5 million people !!

People that realize this opportunity today will be 
rewarded very generously in the future ! 

How hard is it really, to give out Free Web Sites ??

Free for a Lifetime ??

that includes.....

Free Hosting 
Free Lifetime Email address
Free Email on demand
Free Web Page counters
Free Classifieds
Free Online Chat Rooms
Free access to Online Graphics
Free File Uploading
Free personalized search engine
and so much more !

We'll so far I would have to say "extremely easy!"

Do you want to be a part of this growth ?

My upline and I have given out more than 25,000 of the 170,000 
free sites currently given away by Freeyellow.

If you are looking for a way to grow your income
then join a very powerful team to help promote Freeyellow.

First you must start by getting your own Free Web Site
to do this go to my site and click on the Freeyellow Banner: 

http://www.freeyellow.com/members3/1freewebsite

Then you can set-up your own Web Site in minutes using a
template. If you how to use HTML or you can create
your own custom page using HTML. (great for beginners or pros)

Next once you have your Web Site set-up 
you'll learn how to become a Sponsor of Freeyellow.

When you join Freeyellow, they will automatically place an
Advertisement Banner on your main Web Page !

Then people that you direct to your site click on the Banner Ad
and sign up under you.

Now the exciting part !!

When people decide to promote Freeyellow under you, you will
not only receive a commission from them but a link to your URL
will be placed at the bottom of their Web Page and so-on to six
levels deep ! This will generate "enormous additional hits"
to your own Web Page !


If this is of interest please let me know we are looking for 
strong leaders in Internet Marketing. Hurry the growth curb is
already starting and we are in the mid pioneering stage...

..make your own history! Here's an opportunity to forge your
own "SUCCESS" story... 

..CHECK IT OUT "NOW!"

	http://www.freeyellow.com/members3/1freewebsite
  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: cpl@pronet.com
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 00:45:19 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: Free Avertising For Your Business!!
Message-ID: <199804060745.AAA21581@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hi,

Just wanted to pass along some info about a new piece of software 
I now call my "secret weapon". It's amazing! Listen to this...

Me and hundreds of others can now reach "millions of potential 
customers" - absolutely FREE!  A lot of us are creating immediate 
"cash flow explosions" - literally overnight!
And blowing our competition right out of the water!

You have to check this thing out.  To get some details, all you 
have to do is Email a request for more info to cpl@zippp.com or 
you can also receive the information through our fax-on-demand by 
calling 1-703-478-9600 Doc#808, and you'll get some information 
faxed or email'ed right back to you in a few minutes.  If for any 
reason you have a problem retrieving the information using these 
two methods, please call our voicemail at 1-800-775-0712 ext.5413.

Take care. I'll talk with you later.

Bill:-)




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Toto" 
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 02:59:41 -0700 (PDT)
To: "Martin, FCC George" 
Subject: An extra five years? / Re: An apology...
Message-ID: <00b601bd6142$573b93e0$0963a58e@uymfdlvk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Devious Dave Honig wrote:

:Indeed.  So that we can prevent this from happening again, I'll
:reveal my deadly hacker tools.  Alta Vista and Beer.


Doesn't use of Alta Vista and Beer in commission of what authorities wish
was a crime make you subject to an extra five years in prison for your next
speeding ticket?

:Why is the CIA is so full of spies?


To keep an eye on each other...

~~~~
Toto  
~~~~
"The Xenix Chainsaw Massacre"
http://bureau42.base.org/public/xenix

"WebWorld & the Mythical Circle of Eunuchs"
http://bureau42.base.org/public/webworld

"InfoWar -- The Digital Revolution"
http://bureau42.base.org/public/infowar3

"Space Aliens Hide My Drugs"
http://bureau42.base.org/public/sahmd







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Bull 
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 02:34:59 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Spam from the FBI
Message-ID: <3528A1B9.D61C7FB1@escape.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


http://www.firstbase.com/fbi.htm

--
PGP welcome. Finger for key.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Toto" 
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 05:37:48 -0700 (PDT)
To: "CypherPunks" 
Subject: So we can expect lower taxes, now...right?
Message-ID: <00ec01bd6158$78aa87a0$0963a58e@uymfdlvk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


    THE LIBERTARIAN, By Vin Suprynowicz

Paul Craig Roberts -- former Treasury Department subaltern during
the Reagan administration -- makes a convincing case that America's
"Department of Justice" is now engaging in fund-raising tactics little
removed from that old standby of Tijuana justice.

  "Junk Bond King" Michael Milken -- now semi-retired to Northern Nevada --
"has been thrice held for ransom" in unjustified prosecutions, Roberts
argues in a March 31 column in Investor's Business Daily.

"Milken forked over
$600 million to buy his way out of a 98-count indictment that University of
Chicago law professor Daniel Fischal has shown to be as phony as a $3 bill.

  "Milken was next seized by the Resolution Trust Corp. and the Federal
Deposit Insurance Corp. 
To buy his way out of endless
litigation" -- funded by the taxpayers, of course -- "Milken handed over
$900 million."

Casting covetous eyes on the $42 million consulting fee Milken had
been paid by News Corp.'s Rupert Murdoch and MCI's Bert Roberts, the
regulators demanded Milken fork it over -- plus a $5 million bonus --
before they would give him a clean bill of health with his parole judge.

Once the government had his money in hand, the
Justice Department wrote to the judge, indicating it had found no reason to
pursue Milken for parole violations -- that Justice had decided he was
innocent of any wrongdoing (start ital)before(end ital) he handed over his
latest ransom.

Milken was held
up and robbed by the SEC in broad daylight for no other reason than the
power the SEC has to extract ransoms from chosen victims."

  Furthermore, Robert concludes, "...What we have witnessed is a conspiracy
between the SEC and the Justice Department to rob a man of $47 million."

  All this would be bad enough if we could believe Mr. Milken alone had
been singled out for such attentions. But in a passing reference in its
March 9 coverage of the federal "antitrust" case against Bill Gates'
Microsoft, Newsweek mentions the same antitrust team has "painful memories
of the endless 1970s and '80s IBM breakup case, which turned into an
O.J.-like courtroom comedy until it was rendered moot by a market-spawned
challenger to IBM ... Microsoft."

  How's that again? The "crimes" in question became "moot" once the chosen
victim lost his preeminence in the market, and thus his attractiveness for
milking? So a necessary part of the definition of this "crime" is success,
while all one must do to escape official "justice" is to lose market share?

  Curiouser and curiouser.

Vin Suprynowicz is the assistant editorial page editor of the Las Vegas
Review-Journal. Readers may contact him via e-mail at vin@lvrj.com. The web
site for the Suprynowicz column is at http://www.nguworld.com/vindex/. The
column is syndicated in the United States and Canada via Mountain Media
Syndications, P.O. Box 4422, Las Vegas Nev. 89127.

~~~~
Toto  
~~~~
"The Xenix Chainsaw Massacre"
http://bureau42.base.org/public/xenix

"WebWorld & the Mythical Circle of Eunuchs"
http://bureau42.base.org/public/webworld

"InfoWar -- The Digital Revolution"
http://bureau42.base.org/public/infowar3

"Space Aliens Hide My Drugs"
http://bureau42.base.org/public/sahmd






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 22:11:49 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Gao Chaos Cypher
Message-ID: <199804060511.HAA08975@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



METHOD AND APPARATUS FOR ENCRYPTING 
AND DECRYPTING INFORMATION USING 
A DIGITAL CHAOS SIGNAL

Patent Number: 5,696,826 
Date of Patent:Dec 9, 1997 
Inventor: Zhenyu Gao 
Appl No:488,088 
Field:Jun 7,1995 







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 45201204@13080.com
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 10:47:43 -0700 (PDT)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: Web Promotion Spider
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


             Web Promote Spider

With well over 80 million documents on the web today,
getting your Site   noticed is a difficult process. Going to 
each Search Engine, Link Page,   Directory, and Newsgroup
to manually submit your page could realistically
take weeks to complete.

Announcing the  Web Promote Spider! Created specifically to
meet the needs of those who want their web pages to get
NOTICED and placed   in the TOP of the Search Engines!
The  Spider automates the   process of submitting your site
and uses powerful technology to get your site   listed in the 
TOP positions.

We've developed the  Web Promote Spider for Windows 95
and NT. This amazing program automatically submits your 
site to over 250   (the list grows daily) major search engines and
directories!

PLUS, the  Web Promote Spider has an Expert HTML Reader
system inside. It will change certain contents of your html text and
automatically prepare needed information for online registration 
in Search   Engines to Optimize your pages and get them listed
on TOP. Originally   engineered for use by the professional
advertising industry, this program is  easy and intuitive to use. 
Beginners will be amazed at how simple it is to take   complete
control over their search engines and index marketing efforts. 

The Web Promote Spider is an industrial strength marketing
tool and an extremely valuable part of any publicity campaign.
With this kind   of power, it should come as no surprise that 
many of our customers have even   built profitable on-line
promotional businesses with this product and their
existing Internet connection!

With your payment of only $49.95 (standard version) you will 
receive the  current Web Promotion Spider program. Also, you
can have all the new  upgrades FREE. Each upgrade will have
a list of new Internet Search  Engines/Online Directories and, 
of course, new features. 

Plus, you get free upgrades which come out twice a month
with new features   and new search engines. Register now 
and you'll continue to get our upgrades,   which keep the 
program up-to-date and getting better and better! Now
submitting to 250+ search engines, free.

We are proud to announce that we now have two powerful 
versions of the Web Promote Spider, our Standard Version 
and our brand new Pro Version. Our Standard Version is 
designed for those individuals who have one or two sites
that they want to be able to submit, and want to see dramatic 
increases in their sites visibility. Our Pro Version is designed
for ISP's, Webmasters,   Hosting Providers, and anyone who 
has multiple sites they need to promote   thoroughly. While the 
standard version does track all registration campaigns
for you, it can still be somewhat time intensive if you register 
several sites at   once, or on a regular basis.

You can see   why the Web Promote Spider is taking the Net
 by storm!

Professional Version

While the standard version of this product seems to meet the 
promotional needs of most of our customers, we also recognize
the need for an 'industrial strength' version of  Web Promote Spider.

The Professional Version is designed for ISP's, Webmasters,
Hosting Providers, and anyone who has multiple sites they need
to promote thoroughly. While the standard version tracks all registration
campaigns for you, it can still be time intensive if you have to register
several sites at once.

To make this easier and more efficient for our customers, we have
added several new features to the brand new Professional Version:

Deep Promotion - This feature will automatically explore every
internal link in your site, and develop registration information for 
each page for you automatically. For instance, in the standard
version, if you have a 30 page site, you would have to run  Web 
Promote Spider thirty times, manually inputting each page into 
the registration queue. In the professional version, this is
all automatic, and can be done in a matter of minutes.

Batch Processing - If you are responsible for registering or 
maintaining several sites, you will find this feature particularly 
useful. You can load in multiple sites, and set the program to
run all the sites at once, generating and saving a separate
registration report on each. This report can easily be copied 
to the Windows clipboard for pasting into reports, email, etc.
Expanded Promotion Resources - While the standard version
of the Spider will submit to 250 registration resources this list
will continue to grow but not as quickly as what's being planned
on the professional version. The Pro Version currently has 400
and will soon have at least 1,000 automatic registration 
options/resources.

If you're a previous owner of the Standard Version, the cost is
only $49.95 to upgrade! If you're a first time user and would like
to start using the Pro Version right away, the cost is $99.90.

                                To Order

Order by fax or mail  Visa or Mastercard

Fax: (425) 379-9722
Mail to: SYS
              11014 19th Ave SE Suite 305
               Everett, WA 98208

We will give you the address to download the program
or for an extra $10.00 we'll send your the program
on CD-Rom

Name:_______________________

Address:_____________________

City:________________

State:________________

Zip:________________

Home Phone:___________________

Work Phone:____________________

Fax:____________________

E-mail_________________

__Standard Version $49.95

__Pro Version   $99.90

__Upgrade $49.95 (From Standard to Pro, if you already 
                                   have the standard version)

___Send CD-Rom $10.00

___Provide download address..No Charge

_____Total

Visa___MasterCard____

Account number:_______________

Expiration Date:________________

I understand that all sales are final.

_______________________
     Signature

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

















   






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bz98n2001m3@juno.com
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 09:48:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Don't Miss Out..  Special Reports (650+) on CD!!!
Message-ID: <199804061648.JAA01799@cygint.cygnus.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Are you interested in making an extra $10,000, $50,000, or 
$100,000 a month?

YES! $100,000 a month.  If you believe that someday you'll get 
that big break, get ready because THIS IS IT!  Just imagine, no
more living from paycheck to paycheck. Become FINANCIALLY
INDEPENDENT. Buy your dream home. Purchase that sports car in 
cash. Never again worry about living in debt.

"I currently make $1,350 to $1,800 a day doing this part-time. 
One week after I started, the checks showed up in my mailbox. I 
can't believe it!" - Lynette from Glendale, CA.

I'm sure you've seen couples on TV, sitting on a couch, holding 
each other's hand & claiming to make this sort of MONEY. If all 
these people were lying, don't you think you would have heard 
about it from the Attorney General or Hard Copy? STOP thinking 
that no one can possibly make this kind of money. WE ARE!!

"I was probably the most skeptical person out there, until I saw 
how much my brother-in-law was making. Then I HAD to try it.  The 
first day, I got checks that totaled $5,693. Yesterday I made 
$4,374." - Michael from Everette, WA

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Are you ready to change your life forever?
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

MAKE HUGE PROFITS IN THE INFORMATION AGE
Selling information is one of the FASTEST and EASIEST ways to get 
into the mail order business. Ordinary people just like you and 
me are doing this and smiling all the way to the bank. It is only 
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CAPITAL and with literally NO LIMIT to your profits.

I bet you know someone who would PAY YOU $5-$15 to know:
HOW TO GET $1,000,000 WORTH OF LIFE INSURANCE WITH NO CASH!
HOW TO STOP PAYING PROPERTY TAXES ON YOUR HOME
WIPE OUT DEBTS WITHOUT BANKRUPTCY
INSIDER SECRETS TO PERSONAL TAX SHELTERS
HOW TO REDUCE YOUR GROCERY BILLS BY 50%
TOP 10 WAYS TO MAKE MONEY ON THE INTERNET

All you have to do is buy our CD-ROM which contain over 650+ how
To money making reports, reprint on diskettes or paper & SELL,
SELL, SELL.  CD-ROM comes with Unlimited Reprint & Resell 
license.  You can sell the reports individually or in sets 
through classified ads,personal contacts, flyers, or on the Net. 
 
Sell them HOWEVER you want and for as MUCH as you want. 
YOU KEEP ALL THE PROFIT.

HERE'S HOW THIS AMAZING PROGRAM WILL MAKE YOU $$$$$
Let's say that you decide to start small, just to see how it 
goes, and you send out only 2,000 email ads a day. (You obviously 
already have an internet connection so e-mail advertising is
FREE.)  Your email would read:

*****************************************************
* SPECIAL REPORT
* "Live in a $100,000 Home without ANY Money" 
* Send $10 & self-addressed stamped envelope to:
* YOUR NAME
* YOUR ADDRESS
* YOUR CITY AND STATE
*****************************************************

Let's also say that the mailing only receives a tiny response 
rate of not  5% , not 1% but 0.5%. That comes out to 10 orders a 
day X $10.00 per order. That's $100 in additional income a day 
for 5 minutes of work. Imagine, that comes out to an additional 
$36,500 a year. Can you use an extra $36,500 a year for 5 minutes 
of work?

BUT what would happen if you sent out 100,000 emails? At the 
smaller response rate of  0.35% , YOU WILL EARN $105,000.00 OF 
SPENDABLE CASH IN JUST ONE MONTH!

Note: Some programs out there send email at 250,000 - 330,000 
emails an HOUR with a 28.8 modem.

Note: Currently there are over 90 million email accounts users & 
predicted to be 500 million by the year 2000

When you order from us, you get:
*Our BEST-SELLING 650+ money making reports on CD-ROM.
*Step-by-step proven instructions on how you can start a 
huge business selling information & become financially 
successful.
*How To Effectively Sell Information With Bulk Email 
*Getting The Most In A Bulk Emailing Campaign 
*How To Make Big Money Selling Simple Informational Reports 
*How To Make Money Marketing Reports 
*How To Write Attention Compelling Advertisements 
Other money making programs sound great, they say place tiny 
classified ads. They forget to tell you that, you have to WRITE 
A BOOK. With our CD-ROM, you can begin selling, TODAY!

For a further description of the CD-ROM go to 
OUR COMPETITORS SITES: DON'T BUY FROM THEM!
http://www.telepages.com/mega1/microinc.htm       $150
http://www.successmasters.com/cd.html	   $59

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E-Z ORDER FORM :
Please print out this form and fill in the blanks legibly to send 
along with payment.

I WOULD LIKE TO ORDER THE FOLLOWING:

QTY		TITLE
_______	CD-ROM (650+ Reports with Full Reprint Rights)

Advertised before for $99.00 NOW *ONLY $39.00*

Name ____________________________________________________

Street Address ____________________________________________

City, State, Zip_____________________________________________

Phone Number_____________________________________________

Email Address_____________________________________________

Payment method: 
____	credit card
____ 	check
____ 	money order

Account Number _____________________________________

Expiration Date ________________

Name on Card _______________________________________

Signature ___________________________________________

ORDER AMOUNT $39.00 + $4.00 shipping/handling = 
$43.00 TOTAL

Send payment along with this completed form to:

Micro Info Publishing
2107 W. Commonwealth Ave. #264
Alhambra, CA 91803

Comes with a 30 DAY MONEY BACK GUARANTEE







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: minshow@gold.uni-miskolc.hu
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 21:45:25 -0700 (PDT)
To: response@yerbiz.com
Subject: JUST RELEASED!  10 Million!!!
Message-ID: <011297055501222@g_fantasm.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



IT WAS JUST RELEASED!!
 
INTRODUCING...MILLIONS VOL. 1A

We took a total of over 92 million email addresses from many of the
touted CD's that are out there (bought them all - some were $300+)!
We added the millions we had in storage to those.   When we
combined them all, we had in excess of 100+ million addresses
in one huge file.

We then ran a super "sort/de-dupe" program against this huge list.
It cut the file down to less than 25 million!!! Can you believe that? It
seems that most people that are selling CD's are duping the public
by putting numerous files of addresses in the CD over and over. This
created many duplicate addresses. They also had many program
 "generated" email addresses like Compuserve, MCI, ANON's, etc.
This causes a tremendous amount of undeliverables, and for  those
that use Stealth programs, clogs up servers quickly with trash, etc.

We then ran a program that contained 1800+ keywords to remove
addresses with vulgarity,  profanity, sex-related names, postmaster,
 webmaster, flamer, abuse, spam, etc., etc.   Also eliminated all .edu,
.mil, .org, .gov, etc.   After that list was run against the remaining list,
it  reduced it down to near 10 million addresses!

So, you see, our list will save people hundreds of dollars buying all
others that are out there on  CD and otherwise. Using ours will be like
 using the 100+ million that we started with, but a lot less money and
alot less time!!

We also purchased Cyber-Promos ($995.00) CD.  We received it just
prior to finishing production work on the new CD.  We had our people
take a random sample of 300,000 addresses  from the touted 2.9 that
they advertised.   We used a program that allows us to take a random
sample of addresses from any list.  We were able to have the program
take every 9th address, thus giving us a 300,000 list of Cyber's email
addresses from top to bottom.  We cleaned these, and came up with about
100,000 addresses. These are also mixed in.

We also included a 6+ million "Remove/Flamer" file broke into seperate
files for ease of  extracting and adding to your own database of removes.

 "You can buy from the REST or you can buy from the BEST.   Your choice.
_____________________________

What others are saying:
 
"I received the CD on Friday evening.   Like a kid with a new toy, I
immediately started bulking out using the new email addresses.  Over
the course of the weekend, I emailed out over 500,000 emails and I
received less than TWENTY undeliverables!!  I am totally satisfied
with my purchase!!  Thanks Premier!!"

Dave Buckley
Houston,  TX

"This list is worth it's weight in gold!!  I sent out 100,000 emails for my
product and received over 55 orders!

Ann Colby
New Orleans, LA

****************************************
 
                  HERE'S THE BOTTOM LINE

Here is what you get when you order today!

>> 16 Million Email Addresses... 1 per line in simple text format on a CD.
Files are in lots of 5,000 (no codes needed to open files).
All files are separated by domain name for your convenience.
 
PLUS you receive a tremendous REMOVE list!
6 Million+ 

>>> NOW ONLY $150.00!

This price is effective for the next seven days, thereafter the price will be
$199.00 so ORDER NOW!

All lists are completely free of any Duplicates. We also on a continual
basis, add New Names and Remove Undeliverables and Remove
Requests.
 
The result is the Cleanest Email Addresses Available Anywhere
to use over and over again, for a FRACTION of the cost that other
companies charge. Typical rates for acquiring email lists are from
1 cent to as high as 3 cents per email address - that's
"INFORMATION HIGHWAY" ROBBERY!.


***ADDED BONUS***
All our customers will have access to our updates on the CD volume
they purchase.  That's right, we continually work on our CD.  Who 
knows when those other CDs were made. We're constantly adding 
and deleting addresses, removes. Etc.  It all comes back to quality.  
No one else offers that! 

Don't even hesitate on this one or you will miss out on the most
effective way to market anywhere...PERIOD!

If you have any further questions or to place an order by
phone, please do not hesitate to call us at:

                              908-245-1143

To order our email package, simply print out the EZ ORDER FORM
below and fax or mail it to our office today.
 
We accept Visa, Mastercard, AMEX, Checks by Fax and Mail.
 
 _________________
EZ Order Form
 

 _____Yes! I would like to order MILLIONS Vol. 1A email addresses
for only $150.00.
 
*Please select one of the following for shipping..
 
____I would like to receive my package OVERNIGHT. I'm including
$15 for shipping. (outside US add an additional $25 for shipping)
 
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Terry Drymonacos 
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 07:43:15 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Cryptography Policy poll at computer.org
In-Reply-To: <199804051725.NAA16903@alcove.wittsend.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980406104934.009a0bf0@mailserver.asecsys.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Can you be more specific Mike?
exact URL? I can't seem to find it..


At 01:25 PM 4/5/98 -0400, you wrote:
>	I thought that this might be of some interest to cypherpunks...
>
>	Go to http://www.computer.org and follow the member poll link
>from there.
>
>	Mike

Terry Drymonacos
MailTo:statt@usa.net
get 0xE5751CD1 via keyserver
fingerprint= 1AD3 F57E 7751 2107 A561 42E7 1C9C C14B 
Hail Eris!




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 08:03:11 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Info War Festival
Message-ID: <199804061503.LAA24753@camel14.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


http://web.aec.at/infowar/

-----

Ars Electronica Festival 98 
INFOWAR - information. macht. krieg.
7. - 12.9.1998
Linz, Austria

Presse - Information [Excerpts]
20.3.1998 

Ars Electronica, one of the world's most highly-acclaimed 
festivals at the interface of art, technology and society, 
has been presented annually since 1979. 

INFOWAR, the title of this year's festival, places the strategies 
of data-supported wars - from the Gulf Conflict to the skirmishes 
of cyberguerillas - into the focal point of artistic as well as
theoretical and scientific interest, to thereby shed light on the 
internal logic of the information society in connection with war. 

Numerous events, installations, network projects, performances and 
a symposium make up the festival's program to confront and deal 
with this subject. 

Symposium INFOWAR

September 8 - 9, 1998 New weapons systems and military strategies 
will not exclusively occupy the middle point of these discussions. 
The aim is to elaborate on "information as a strategic weapon," 
the power of the media as political power, the new potential hot 
spots of conflict and new images of "enemy" in an information 
society characterized by global economic and financial markets. 
But this also has to do with hacker myths, cryptography, electronic 
bugging operations, and the serious concerns regarding national 
security versus private citizens' fears of the complete loss of 
the right of privacy. 

This symposium will deploy works of art and artistic responsibility 
as methods for coming to terms with these issues and achieving 
increased sensibility toward them. 

-----

Introduction

The information society - no longer a vague promise of a better 
future, but a reality and a central challenge of the here-and-now
- is founded upon the three key technologies of electricity,
telecommunications and computers: Technologies developed for the 
purposes, and out of the logic, of war, technologies of simultaneity 
and coherence, keeping our civilian society in a state of permanent 
mobilisation driven by the battle for markets, resources and spheres 
of influence. A battle for supremacy in processes of economic 
concentration, in which the fronts, no longer drawn up along 
national boundaries and between political systems, are defined by 
technical standards. A battle in which the power of knowledge is 
managed as a profitable monopoly of its distribution and 
dissemination. 

The latest stock market upheavals have laid bare the power of a 
global market, such as only the digital revolution could have 
fathered, and which must be counted as the latterąs most widely-felt
direct outcome. The digitally-networked market of today wields more 
power than the politicians. Governments are losing their say in the 
international value of their currencies; they can no longer control, 
but only react. The massive expansion of freely-accessible
communication networks, itself a global economic necessity, imposes 
severe constraints on the arbitrary restriction of information flows. 

Any transgression of a critical control functions in the 
cybertechnologiesą sphere of responsibility and influence puts 
central power wielders in a hitherto unheard-of position of 
vulnerability and openness to attack. The geographic frontiers of 
the industrial age are increasingly losing their erstwhile 
significance in global politics, and giving way to vertical fronts 
along social stratifications. 

Whereas, in the past, war was concerned with the conquering of 
territory, and later with the control of production capacities, war 
in the 21st century is entirely concerned with the acquisition
and exercise of power over knowledge. The three fronts of land, sea 
and air battles have been joined by a fourth, being set up within 
the global information systems. Spurred on by the "successes" of the 
Gulf war, the development of information warfare is running at full 
speed. Increasingly, the attention of the military strategists is 
turning away from computer-aided warfare - from potentiation of the 

destructive efficiency of military operations through the
application of information technology, virtual reality and high-tech 
weaponry - to cyberwar, whose ultimate target is nothing less than 
the global information infrastructure itself: annihilation of the 
enemyąs computer and communication systems, obliteration of his 
databases, destruction of his command and control systems. Yet 
increasingly the vital significance of the global information 
infrastructure for the functioning of the international finance 
markets compels the establishment of new strategic objectives: not 
obliteration, but manipulation, not destruction, but infiltration 
and assimilation. "Netwar" as the tactical deployment of information 
and disinformation, targeted at human understanding. 

These new forms of post-territorial conflicts, however, have for 
some time now ceased to be preserve of governments and their 
ministers of war. NGOs, hackers, computer freaks in the service of 
organised crime, and terrorist organisations with high-tech expertise 
are now the chief actors in the cyberguerilla nightmares of national 
security services and defence ministries. 

In 1998, under the banner of "INFO WAR", the Ars Electronica Festival 
of Art, Technology and Society, is appealing to artists, theoreticians 
and technologists for contributions relating to the social and 
political definition of the information society. The emphasis here 
will lie not on technological flights of fancy, but on the fronts 
drawn up in a society that is in a process of fundamental and violent 
upheaval. 






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Interactive Services 
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 10:31:42 -0700 (PDT)
To: Gartner Interactive Users 
Subject: Live Tomorrow - Free Keynote Sessions from Predicts
Message-ID: <199804061731.KAA25340@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Dear Subscriber:

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----------------------------------------------------------------

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2. Additional Presentations Available from GartnerGroup Predicts
3. How to Listen
4. How to Unsubscribe from Future Mailings

----------------------------------------------------------------

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 03:02:10 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Password For No Bullshit Sex Site
Message-ID: <199804061002.MAA07474@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


This is an honest to god ma and pa run sex site as far as I can tell.
I didnt get a million UCEs after requesting their password.
+++++


The following legal warning is sent with EVERY username/password that we
send
out, (as this little note will now be), and is not written specifically
toward
you, but as a general warning for everyone, so please don't write back and
take
it personally. This is our way of further protecting ourselves legally,
without using an AVS or Credit Card Number. The username and password ARE
contained in the body of the letter which follows this warning.


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

This letter is NOT SPAM! It is being sent to you at YOUR OWN REQUEST. If you
did not request this letter,
then someone else using your e-mail account or posing as you, most certainly
did. Please reply immediately if you suspect someone else is fraudently
accessing your mail account, so that we can contact the proper authorities
with
the headers of the original email, and add you to our mail filters so that
any
further mail sent from your address will immediately be discarded, and you
will NEVER receive a password from us again. We repeat, THIS INFORMATION WAS
NOT SENT UNSOLICITED!

DO NOT EVEN READ THIS LETTER IF YOU ARE NOT OF LEGAL AGE TO VIEW ADULT
MATERIALS IN YOUR COMMUNITY!

By requesting, reading and acting upon this letter, you have sworn that you
are
of legal age to view said material and would not be breaking any of the
laws of
your community. In most areas of the USA the legal age for access to adult
materials is either 18 or 21. You MUST know the law for your area! YOU are
responsible for your own actions. If someone using this email account
attempts
to gain access to our site by hacking a fraudulent account, we will be
forced
to file charges. Please help us keep the internet safe and free by honoring
our request to make certain that it is legal for you to view hardcore adult
materials. Our only alternative to counting on your honesty is to take our
site to credit card only access. We don't want to do that if we don't have
to,
so please be honest with us and keep the net free for everyone. Thank you

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<




Hi there, Mr. and Mrs. Hackula here...

Thank you for your help.

Please don't bookmark our picture pages, as they are subject to change.
You can always access our site through:

http://www.pornquest.com OR
http://www.ixpres.com/hackul
a/porn/index.html


And while you're there, please check out our sponsors, because they
are the one's who are now keeping us free, instead of us having to use an
AVS or making our site a pay-site. Even our sponsors offer a whole month
completely free. :)



HERE IS THE CURRENT USERNAME AND PASSWORD FOR OUR HOMEPAGE.

Username: lazlosnerd
Password: nitrocola



To enter these passwords, you must first click the link on our page that
says, "Come on in for some Milk and Cookies." You will then see a box
requesting the un/pw. Enter the words exactly as they appear here... No
capital letters. Please save this email, or if you write down the un/pw,
make sure you spell them correctly.

Please remember not to give these to anyone else. Please do not publish
them anywhere, and please inform us if you find them published somewhere
on the web, or you find a page that links PAST our password request page...
Thank you for your cooperation!


Sincerely,

Mr. and Mrs. Hackula
http://www.pornquest.com






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Michael H. Warfield" 
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 09:04:30 -0700 (PDT)
To: tdrymonacos@asecedi.com
Subject: Re: Cryptography Policy poll at computer.org
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980406104934.009a0bf0@mailserver.asecsys.com>
Message-ID: <199804061604.MAA23190@alcove.wittsend.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Terry Drymonacos enscribed thusly:
> Can you be more specific Mike?
> exact URL? I can't seem to find it..


> At 01:25 PM 4/5/98 -0400, you wrote:
> >	I thought that this might be of some interest to cypherpunks...

> >	Go to http://www.computer.org and follow the member poll link
> >from there.

	http://ada.computer.org/surveys/Privsec.htm

> >	Mike
> 
> Terry Drymonacos
> MailTo:statt@usa.net
> get 0xE5751CD1 via keyserver
> fingerprint= 1AD3 F57E 7751 2107 A561 42E7 1C9C C14B 
> Hail Eris!

	Mike
-- 
 Michael H. Warfield    |  (770) 985-6132   |  mhw@WittsEnd.com
  (The Mad Wizard)      |  (770) 925-8248   |  http://www.wittsend.com/mhw/
  NIC whois:  MHW9      |  An optimist believes we live in the best of all
 PGP Key: 0xDF1DD471    |  possible worlds.  A pessimist is sure of it!




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 09:33:42 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: MCs Write Clinton on Crypto
Message-ID: <199804061633.MAA04417@camel14.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


More congressionals are sending POTUS cryptograms:

   http://jya.com/mcs-potus.htm

Signers:

Richard A. Gephardt, M.C.
Zoe Lofgren, M.C.
Vic Fazio, M.C.
Martin Frost, M.C.
Sam Gejdenson, M.C.
John Conyers, Jr., M.C.
Edward J. Markey, M.C.
Anna G. Eshoo, M.C.
Rick Boucher, M.C.
Calvin M. Dooley, M.C.
James P. Moran, M.C.
Adam Smith, M.C.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: travish+cp-02@dejanews.com
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 13:50:58 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: [noise] Java Ring Crypto iButton
Message-ID: <199804062050.PAA27491@byers.dejanews.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


http://www.dalsemi.com/News_Center/Press_Releases/1998/prjavaring.html

JVM, 8-bit processor, 6k SRAM, some tamper-resistant features,
RTC, and 1024-bit math accelerator in a US$50 ring.  Cool.

I remember someone telling me recently some MIT folks had done some
research in using the human body as a communication bus.
That seems like a synergistic technology to wearable crypters.

ObSorryIfYou'veSeenThisAlready: true
--
Travis Hassloch
Database Administrator, Deja News Inc.
More funky styles than Adobe has fonts




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: info2@aestiva.com
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 18:30:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: May I Send You Some Information?
Message-ID: <199804070130.SAA28548@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hello,

I'd like to send you information about a product
for making Web sites super-dynamic without CGI programming. 
Our product gives you:

  Shopping carts * Databases * Password screens
  Chat rooms * Forums * Guestbooks * Quizzes
  Games and puzzles * Random sayings * Rotating banners
  Counters * File upload boxes * Data entry forms
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  Online editors * Wizards * and much more....

If you'd like more information by email, please reply.

Thank you very much for your consideration,

Aestiva Sales Representative

P.S: If this information isn't for you, then please ignore
or pass it along to your Web site designer.

(I got your email address from a site listed in the Yahoo Business
and Economy section. If you prefer not to get email from us,
please reply with the word REMOVE in the subject line.)

=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
AESTIVA HTML/OS - The World's Most Powerful HTML Platform
Phone:            1-310-318-1150  (9am-5pm PST)
E-mail:           info@aestiva.com
                  Hermosa Beach, California, USA
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=


>From POPmail Tue Apr  7 06:06:21 1998
Received: from proxy1.ba.best.com (root@proxy1.ba.best.com [206.184.139.12]) by shell2.ba.best.com (8.8.8/8.8.BEST) with ESMTP id KAA00488 for ; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 10:44:27 -0700 (PDT)
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Message-Id: <199804061844.LAA23586@amazona.aestiva.com>
Subject: Mass Mail
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Status: O

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dburch@epigraphx.com
dburger@cedia.org
dburgess@inreach.com
dburke@prtm.com
dburns@cyberatl.net
dburnworth@concentric.net
dburr@inetw.net
dburski@rust.net
dbusby@mail.bootheel.net
dbush@jumppoint.com
dbush@lumasales.com
dbush@wb.esmith.com
dbutcher@alpinet.com
dbutler@backdoor.com
dbutler@enol.com
dbutler@ordata.com
dbutler@rcmllp.com
dbwallan@iceinternet.com
dbyerly@infoave.net
dc-beer-request@sed.psrw.com
dc3@dc-three.com
dc9rk@koelek.com
dc@bbcpa.com
dc@desertconcierge.com
dc@meros.com
dca@planetsales.com
dcabana@yushin.com
dcadams@skn.net
dcaikepoo@iuciyliebiga.com
dcaillet@firstco.com
dcains@hgrn.com
dcalla@mastnet.net
dcalland@peoplesuccess.com
dcals@damagedcalifornians.com
dcampbel@adams.net
dcanal@bridge.net
dcapc@dcardinal.com
dcapon@innet.com
dcard@psnw.com
dcardani@dls.net
dcarlson@fin-info.com
dcarlson@planet.net
dcarlson@platinumaudio.com
dcarman@together.net
dcarnine@interramp.com
dcarochi@prestige-electric.com
dcarpent@orednet.org
dcarr@csranet.com
dcary@ieee.org
dcasales@d-c-a.com
dcasey@cardiffsw.com
dcasey@gt.com
dcaskey@napier.com
dcastro@guidant.com
dcavern@amaonline.com
dcay@icu.com
dcb@nobolts.com
dcbaker@clinton.net
dcbare@tir.com
dcbeer@webtrek.com
dcbiepkekac@cawdaddannudt.com
dcbiker@goldray.com
dcblack@coffey.com
dcc@cloutieragraseeds.com
dcc@mb.sympatico.ca
dccdfarr@vaxxine.com
dccf@wtrt.net
dccfunds@primenet.com
dcck@pacific.net
dccphoto@dccphoto.com
dccwebmaster@dcclifecare.com
dcdavis@hslc.org
dcdnsnow@peganet.com
dcdrives@phoenix.net
dcdry@netroute.net
dce@datacoreeng.com
dce@eclipse.net
dce@net-gate.com
dcecere@wolfenet.com
dcentre@manifestimagery.com
dcfo@tpl.org
dcg@atr.com
dcg@groupdc.com
dcg@softcafe.net
dcgottaeat@mindspring.com
dchall@netsync.net
dchamber@orednet.org
dchamnes@netnitco.net
dchan@istar.ca
dchan@manager.com
dchan@pacificcoast.net
dchandler@abilnet.com
dchase@smtpgwmac.bande.com
dchathaway@tasc.com
dcheath@ns.net
dcheng@largnet.uwo.ca
dchenoweth@contelec.com
dchepil@silk.net
dchervitz@dbc.com
dchesnut@ionet.net
dchew@3wc.com
dchin@execlend.com
dching@pop.slip.net
dching@slip.net
dchiu@verite.com
dchiu@worldlinkmedical.com
dchliborob@asan.com
dchoos3@aol.com
dchriste@pangaea.ca
dchristi@macshym.com
dchu@netlock.com
dchurch@oz.net
dchynes@pressprich.com
dci@dci.ca
dci@dyncom.com
dci@mn.state.net
dci@workplacemanager.com
dcic@halycon.com
dcinfo@diversifiedcoatings.com
dcippite@cmp.com
dcisales@dcinc.net
dcisebt@eosoineapoane.com
dcisme@indy.net
dcitron@univox.com
dciwebmaster@netroam.com
dcj@aa.net
dcj@catol.com
dcj@iquest.com
dcjstope@xnet.com
dckallan@bmcind.com
dclark@accucomm.net
dclark@cookford.com
dclark@git.net
dclark@sunbeltusa.com
dclarke@rtca.org
dclarke@synaptica.com
dcliff@ghgcorp.com
dcline@intrec.com
dclingan@vol.com
dclough@stargazer.netshop.net
dclupper@ctaz.com
dcm@i-55.com
dcm@pdxaudio.com
dcmoon@tusc.net
dcn@endocrinology.com
dcneal@redcreek.com
dcochran@stratos.net
dcody@epinc.com
dcofe@oeleitoebaef.org
dcoffee@htccom.net
dcoffman@cwv.net
dcoker@dimensiondata.com
dcolbert@xnet.com
dcoleman@awod.com
dcollier@rcoinc.com
dcollins@jenchase.com
dcollison@rwd.com
dcom@cvn.net
dcom@mail.cvn.net
dcongalt@slonet.org
dcook@oz.net
dcook@soundworks.com
dcook@unixg.ubc.com
dcoombs@bn1.baynet.net
dcooper@menagerie-works.com
dcopfer@vevidence.com
dcopping@daemar.com
dcorbett@animagicfx.com
dcorbin@maxinet.com
dcornett@iac.net
dcornish@oxnardsd.org
dcorson@oz.net
dcos@ai2a.net
dcosta@wls1.com
dcota@icanect.net
dcottier@touchtechnology.com
dcoulthurst@creativecommunication.com
dcoupe@jps.net
dcourt@cyber-trek.com
gina@aestiva.com
dcoyne@netipus.com
dcp@mts.net
dcpi@sunscape.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: dental@cheerful.com
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 22:43:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: $9 dental, vision & prescription drugs plan
Message-ID: <199804070543.WAA00292@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


****************************************************************
This is not unsolicited email.
Your email address was routed to our "auto send" program stating 
that you wish to receive information about our dental, vision & 
prescription drug program. If your email address was referred to 
our "auto send" in error, please accept our apology. Just type 
"REMOVE" in the subject line and the "auto send" will remove your 
email address.
****************************************************************


******* DENTAL PLAN

$9 per month for a single person
$15 per month for entire household, (everyone at your house)

**No waiting period, No limit on visits or services, Braces 
included, Cosmetic dentistry included, specialist included, 
pre-existing conditions are covered, No deductible, No age limit, 
No claim forms, You can change dentist whenever you want.

******* VISION CARE

Free with $9/$15 dental plan

**Over 12,000 optical providers nationwide, save up to 60%, save 
up to 60% on contact lenses, save up to 30% on eye exams and 
surgery, save up to 50% on all non-prescription sunglasses, 30 
day unconditional money back guarantee, only national plan 
endorsed by the Opticians Association of America.

******* PRESCRIPTION DRUGS

Free with $9/$15 dental plan

**Over 35,000 retail pharmacy locations nationwide including most 
chain pharmacies and independent pharmacies, save up to 50% on 
prescription drugs, all prescription drugs are covered both at 
the retail pharmacy and by mail order.

If you want to sign up for the dental program just follow the 
directions below. 

FAX the following to DENTAL PLAN. 
The fax number is 1-713-266-0390.

DENTAL PLAN
Name
Address                            <----  very important 
City, State, Zip code              <----   information
Day Phone #
Night Phone #
Fax Phone #
Email address

We are currently needing brokers for the $9/$15 Dental Plan. If 
you or someone you know is looking for an additional income 
PLEASE LET US KNOW when you fax the above information. The Dental 
Broker program has a nice up front pay cycle and a very good 
residual for as long as the person is in the dental plan. And 
there is no license required to be a broker.

So let us know about the dental and if you know of someone 
wanting to be a broker. Tell them to contact us by faxing the 
same information.

Thank you again for your interest.

Cliff





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Brown, R Ken" 
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 00:38:57 -0700 (PDT)
To: jeffb@issl.atl.hp.com>
Subject: RE: Regulating the Regulators / Re: regulating the internet (fwd)
Message-ID: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE20278D4@MSX11002>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


> Jeff Barber[SMTP:jeffb@issl.atl.hp.com]  wrote , in reply to Jim Choate,
> replying to William Geiger:
> 
> Many people will argue that Medicaid, Medicare and the like are not
> Bad Things.  But they can't honestly be labeled "insurance".  And they
> definitely *are* "socialist" mechanisms.

They're not socialist - just the welfare state. If that's all you mean by
"socialist" you end up including all sorts of odd people - like Bismarck's
Prussia, the arch-conservative empire which invented the welfare state.  In
fact you include practically all government. Even occupying armies usually
try to do famine relief, if only to get the refugees off the roads.   The
word becomes so broad it is emptied of meaning and is only used as an insult
- just like the way some peope on the left use "Nazi" or "fascist"

If "socialist" means anything it has to mean social control of the supply
side - as opposed to "capitialism" which is control by the suppliers of
capital. Like it says in a Good Old Clause: "to secure for the workers by
hand or by brain the full fruits of their industry ... upon the basis of
thwe common ownership of the means of production, distribution, and
exchange..."  It's possible to imagine a socialist economy in which there
was no welfare system - ownership of business distributed amongst everybody,
managers of each business appointed  democratically; everyone starts with an
equal share,  but no helping hand if you don't make out. Whether many people
who say they are socialists would want to live in such an economy is a
different question.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Perrin ." 
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 06:22:40 -0700 (PDT)
To: frankunderwood@hotmail.com
Subject: Fwd: My RoZe 2 U!!! @~~~~~~{~~~~~~~~~~ (I MISS YOU!)
Message-ID: <19980407132158.17451.qmail@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


                 _-----_
               //   __   \\--,
            ,\  //@))\  || /
           \\   \   //   \//
               \\__\||__/
                      \\      ,-,
                   ,__'\\`  /'  \      "A part of you has grown in me,
                  \     \\ /      \     together forever we shall be,
                    ' --_||__---'       never apart,                                            
\\            maybe in distance,
                           \\,          but not in heart"
                           '\\
                             \\
 This is the sacred RED ROSE.  You MUST pass this rose on to at least  5 
people within the hour of receiving this rose.  After you do, make  a 
wish. If you have passed it on, your wish will come true and love   will 
come your way shortly.  If you didn't, your life will be cursed  for 
eternity and you will not have any love in your life whatsoever.
   
 It's your choice.  Make the right one.....
  
  @->->>-    ^v^  -<<-<-@
  To a friend, from a friend
  Pass it on to those who deem worthy of your time and friendship.
  *And remember never to forget who your friends are.
  @->->>-    ^v^  -<<-<-@
  Remember:
 	"GOOD FRIENDS ARE HARD TO FIND .....................  SO          
CHERISH THE ONES YOU HAVE !!!"




-----------------------
Fixed by Perrin
pleontks@hotmail.com
http://members.tripod.com/~pleontks


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: webmaster@pornempoium.com
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 11:39:51 -0700 (PDT)
To: webmaster@pornemporium.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


This message is intended for Adult Webmasters.  If you received this
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the subject REMOVE.

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You can check out some sample pics at 






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: James Glave 
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 14:44:39 -0700 (PDT)
To: John Young 
Subject: Re: Canada's Crypto Policy
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980407144333.0070bb70@get.wired.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Also see my Wired News piece on this meeting:

http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/11397.html

Crypto Canucks: Hands Off Our Keys! 
                      5:03 am PST 2 Apr 98 - The captains
                      of Canada's cryptography industry sent a
                      message to Ottawa yesterday: keep
                      clear of domestic crypto controls, and
                      lighten up on the export policies. Was
                      anyone listening? 

At 03:22 PM 4/7/98 -0400, John Young wrote:
>Thanks to mctaylor and Carrie Bendzsa at Entrust we offer 
>her transcription of the recent Entrust roundtable on Canada's 
>Cryptography Policy:
>
>   http://jya.com/CA-crypto.htm  (113K)
>
>Good, vigorous discussion of how US export policy inhibits
>Canada's crypto policy and commerce. And what might be 
>done to get the CA gov to defy the supercop without getting 
>shackled like US miscreants.

            James Glave : Senior Technology Writer : Wired News
                   http://www.wirednews.com : 415.276.8430




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Your Yashy 
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 11:52:41 -0700 (PDT)
To: pgp-users@joshua.rivertown.net
Subject: RE: [PGP-USERS-4748]: Legality in Canada
In-Reply-To: <005d01bd620e$998f2000$b4026ac2@menezo>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On Tue, 7 Apr 1998, H. M. wrote:

> What's this 2600??
> 
> I think it refers to the 2600 FAQ.  It´s a faq (Frequently Asked Questions)
> about hacking, phreaking, and other related stuff which (I believe) was
> originally made up by 2600 questions and answers (hence the name).
> They also hold meetings (in US and/or Canada?) in which, I guess, the
> attendants are supposedly hackers and phreakers.
I think you should perhaps read a little more maboy. 2600 is not an FAQ,
although, with any "group" nowadays, there is a FAQ avaliable for newbies
etc (obviously like yourself). 2600 refers to a frequency, NOT a q and a,
actually it derived from a tone that could "steal" trunk lines. They are
not "supposedly hackers and phreakers". Aso the debatable issure of exact
translation of a hacker, IMO it is anyone that has altered ANY program. 
p.s. If it wasn't for hackers, you wouldn't have the technology you have.


> For what I've read on the inet, they sort of portray themselves as "outlawed
> heroes" unjustly prosecuted or so, which IMHO rises a question:
OH what you've read on the beloved www. I'd imagine you read an article on
a webpage full of sex ad banners as well. I don't feel that I am an
"outlawed hero" but I feel I better society in various ways.


> they claim that all data should be freely available, and since it's not,
> they ilegally enter other's systems by breaking into them... but, aren't we
> here talking about encryption as a means of protecting your data and your
> privacy?  if so, aren't these people supposed to be a threat to all of us?
As I've already said, you have alot more reading to do.
I agree this is not a mailinglist for anything other than PGP. And how
this thread evolved so far is by negligence.
RTFM

- -yashy-     

> 
> H. Menezo Ganau
> homega@vlc.servicom.es
> homega@latinmail.com
> 
> 
> DH/DSS  (1024/1024)
> Key ID:  0x614DB9FA
> 
> RSA (2048)
> Key ID:  0x160B1B5B
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: pgp-users-unsubscribe@joshua.rivertown.net
> For additional commands, e-mail: pgp-users-help@joshua.rivertown.net
> 

- -shareware email coutesy of yashy- -send $10 cdn funds if you read it-
email@reply     irc@ircnet #italy     icq@4497826    pgpID@ 0xD0186E85
pubring@www.chat.carleton.ca/~nmarion   home@ottawa canada   sleep@7am
- -                                                                    -
     

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.2

iQCVAwUBNSp1XD8rI+jQGG6FAQEP3QQAqj9Qg0XbFJeLauyvW586nd0Urmmkv9t3
D3O7M0oBhbn1dPNKCPJ+ZZsSF5V12LSz+cY8MV2Ul4nIx8HneBRsPA2/WzyNBYrS
qZMn205XzgbXUL2/ZU5qv8ZKX+921wfBf/wdtIQmW2+FoxEQU0rVna97EG1DIJ/r
L7Y3oTH45/c=
=vNUE
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 12:21:38 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Canada's Crypto Policy
Message-ID: <199804071921.PAA17533@camel14.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Thanks to mctaylor and Carrie Bendzsa at Entrust we offer 
her transcription of the recent Entrust roundtable on Canada's 
Cryptography Policy:

   http://jya.com/CA-crypto.htm  (113K)

Good, vigorous discussion of how US export policy inhibits
Canada's crypto policy and commerce. And what might be 
done to get the CA gov to defy the supercop without getting 
shackled like US miscreants.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSquncr 
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 12:46:00 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Nobody's Friend
Message-ID: <25e998e4.352a824f@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


In a message dated 4/7/98 2:26:38 PM Central Daylight Time, nobody@REPLAY.COM
writes:

<< From:         tsatan@hotmail.com >>

I would read that as - T(he)Satan@HOTmail.com if I were you! ;-)  I think he
thinks he's serious. (a reminder - IMHO, the Christian Coalition is the anti-
Christ in disguise)

Stan




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ken Williams 
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 13:06:55 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Is Privacy-hater Gary Burnore a Sex Offender?
In-Reply-To: <199804071904.VAA03935@basement.replay.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Tue, 7 Apr 1998, Anonymous wrote:

>I just found this posted to usenet.  Can anyone in NC verify it?
>
>Subject:      IMPORTANT: Gary L. Burnore is a Sex Offender!
>>From:         tsatan@hotmail.com
>Date:         1998/04/06
>Message-ID:   <6gau3g$82$1@orthanc.reference.com>
>Newsgroups:   triangle.general
> 
>Looking through the new NC Sex Offender Registry, who did I see?
>   GARY LEE BURNORE
>   4201 BLAND ROAD APT J
>   RALEIGH NC 27609
>Offense and Conviction Information:
>   Conviction Date: 03-13-1997
>   NC Statute: 14-202.1 - INDECENT LIBERTY MINOR
>   Sentence Imposed: PROBATION 3Y
>   Court County: SANTA CLARA, CA
>   
>Two questions:
>   1-Is this the same jerk who posts regularly to triangle.general?
>   2-If so: anyone know anything else about this conviction?
> 
>Thanks.
>

yes, it is confirmed.  search at the site below.  

The North Carolina Sex Offender and Public Protection Registry
http://sbi.jus.state.nc.us/SOR/Default.htm

i don't read triangle.general though so i don't know if it is the same
person.  the address listed above is just a few blocks from my house
though.  

just great.  

i'll have to keep my cat and dog inside from now on.


Ken Williams

ORG: VP of The E.H.A.P. Corp.   
EML: ehap@hackers.com             
WWW: http://152.7.11.38/~tattooman/   
     http://www.hackers.com/ehap/ 
PGP: finger tattooman@152.7.11.38                       








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Trans World Specials" 
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 11:54:59 -0700 (PDT)
To: Trans World Airlines Customers 
Subject: Trans World Specials Fare Sales
Message-ID: <19980407161159.26450.qmail@inet2.twa.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Welcome to Trans World Specials for April 7th, 1998.
 Fares are valid for travel originating 4/11/98 and 
 returning either 4/13/98 or 4/14/98.  All fares must be
 purchased by 4/10/98.  
 
 TWA recently completed an expansion of our 
 narrow-body fleet with 60 % more seats in 
 First Class.  Have you heard about the new 
 Aviators Frequent Traveler Program?  Get 
 all the latest news from TWA at 
 http://www.twa.com
 
 We have some great fares this week to help you celebrate 
 Easter and Passover with family and friends.
 
 As always, our domestic Trans World Specials may 
 originate in either direction. 
 
 On to this week's Trans World Special.
 
 
 ********************Coach Fares**********************
 
 
 Roundtrip fares between ST. LOUIS, MO (STL) and :
 
 Cedar Rapids, IA (CID)		$69	
 Little Rock, AR (LIT)		$69
 Albuquerque, NM (ABQ) 		$129
 Palm Springs, CA (PSP)		$159
 San Antonio, TX (SAT)		$129	
 
 
 Roundtrip fares between CEDAR RAPIDS, IA (CID) and:
 
 Colorado Springs, CO (COS) 	$99
 Albuquerque, NM (ABQ)		$129
 Washington DC (National only)	$129
 New York, NY (LGA only)		$129
 San Antonio, TX (SAT)		$129
 Palm Springs, CA (PSP)		$159
 
 Roundtrip fares between LITTLE ROCK, AR (LIT) and :
 
 Cedar Rapids, IA (CID)		$89
 Colorado Springs, CO (COS)	$99
 Washington, DC (National only)	$129
 New York, NY (LGA only)		$129
 Palm Springs, CA (PSP)		$159
 
 Roundtrip fares between WASHINGTON, DC(National only) and:
 
 Palm Springs, CA (PSP)		$179
 Colorado Springs,  CO (COS)	$159
 San Antonio, TX (SAT)		$159
 
 Roundtrip fares between NEW YORK, NY (LGA only) and:
 
 Palm Springs, CA (PSP)		$179
 Colorado Springs, CO (COS)	$159
 San Antonio, TX (SAT)		$159
 
 
 *****************FIRST CLASS*************************
 
 
 Roundtrip FIRST CLASS fare between ST. LOUIS, MO (STL)  and:
 
 Austin, TX (AUS)		$349
 New Orleans, LA	(MSY)		$349
 
 Travel is not valid on Trans World Express Flights series 7000-7999
 
 Call TWA at 1-800-221-2000 and book your Trans World Special today
 
 
 ***************TWA GETAWAY  VACATIONS*************
 
 
 RENO - Eldorado Hotel and Casino Includes:
 
 - roundtrip economy airfare
 - 3 day/2 night accommodations at the Eldorado Hotel and Casino
 - one FREE breakfast buffet at the Chef's Pavilion
 - El Dorado features world class accommodations and the dazzling 'Smokey Joe's Cafe' show
 - 2000 bonus FFB miles in addition to actual miles earned
 - only $255 from Atlanta, Cedar Rapids, Cleveland, Columbus, Cincinnati, Dayton, 
 - Dallas, Des Moines, New Orleans, St. Louis and many other TWA cities
  -only $299 from Boston, Baltimore, Charlotte, Newark, New York, Norfolk, Philadelphia
 - Washington,  Jacksonville, Orlando, Memphis and many other TWA cities
 
 
 HIGHLIGHTS OF BRITIAN AND IRELAND for only $2789 Includes:
 
 - visit London, Salisbury, Stonehenge, Bath, Waterford, Blarney, Killarney, Dublin, 
 - Chester, Stratford, Upon Avon, Winchester
 - 15 day/13 night escorted vacation
 - roundtrip economy airfare
 - buffet breakfast daily
 - sightseeing and Ferry across the Irish Sea
 - private luxury motorcoach
 - available for 5/16/98 departure from Cleveland, Detroit, Houston, Indianapolis, Chicago and St. Louis
 - 5000 bonus FFB miles in addition to actual miles earned
 
 Call 1-800-GETAWAY( 438-2929) and book your GETAWAY vacation today !
 
 
 ***************ALAMO******************************
 
 
 Alamo offers these low rates for an economy car valid 4/18/98 - 4/20/98
 
 $16.99		San Antonio , Austin, 
 
 $17.99		St. Louis,  Little Rock
 
 $20.99		Washington-DC (National), New Orleans
 
 $24.99		Colorado Springs
 
 For reservations call Alamo at 1-800-GO-ALAMO and request rate code RT and
 ID # 443833. For online reservations access Alamo at http://www.goalamo.com
 
 
 *****************HILTON HOTELS/RESORTS******************
 
 Hilton Hotels/Resorts offers these low rates valid the nights of 4/11/98 - 4/14/98
 
 $89		Washington National Airport Hilton, Arlington VA ( free airport
 		shuttle, only 5 minutes from major DC sites)
 
 $99		The Capital Hilton Washington, DC ( Cherry Blossom Festival
 		this weekend !  located near all major sites
 
 $106		Hilton of Santa Fe, Santa Fe NM ( visit enchanting New Mexico, enjoy
 		great skiing and historical attractions)
 
 $175		New York Hilton and Towers New York,  NY ( located at Rockefeller Center 
 		near theatres and shopping)
 
 $219		The Waldorf Astoria New York, NY ( fitness center, numerous in-house 
 		restaurants, near shopping and theatres)
 
 For reservations call Hilton at 1-800-774-1500 and ask for Hilton Value Rates. Visit Hilton online at
 http://www.hilton.com
 
 
 *************TERMS & CONDITIONS*****************************
 
 Airfare Terms and Conditions: 
 GENERAL CONDITIONS: Fares shown are round trip, nonrefundable and are subject to change. 
 Changes to itinerary are not permitted. Fares do not include Passenger Facility Charges of 
 up to $12 depending on itinerary. Must use E-Ticketing for domestic travel. Credit card is 
 the only form of payment accepted. Offer is not available in conjunction with any other 
 discount, coupon or promotional offer. Seats are limited and may not be available on all 
 flights or days of the week. Tickets must be purchased at time of booking and no later than 
 4/10/98. Standby passengers not allowed. DOMESTIC: Valid for outbound travel on Saturday 
 (4/11) and return Monday (4/13) or Tuesday (4/14). Travel is effective 4/11/98 with all 
 travel to be completed by 4/14/98. Minimum stay is 2 days. Maximum stay is 3 days. 
 
 Getaway Conditions: 
 ALL PACKAGES: Package include round-trip economy airfare from cities indicated. Price is 
 per person based on double occupancy and is subject to change. Availability, restrictions, 
 surcharges, blackouts and cancellation penalties apply. No other discounts or promotions 
 are valid in conjunction with these packages. 
 DOMESTIC CONDITIONS: Depart for Reno Sunday-Wednesday and return Tuesday-Friday. Travel is 
 valid 4/15/98-5/20/98 with all travel completed 5/22/98. Package also includes roundtrip 
 transfers to hotel. Price does not include Passenger Facility Charges of up to $16 per 
 person. Full payment due on/before 4/6/98. 
 INTERNATIONAL CONDITIONS: Seats are limited and may not be available on all flights. Price 
 does not include Passenger Facility Charges, US departure/arrival, agriculture, and security
 fees from point of origin of travel up to approximately $90 per person. Single supplement 
 $499. Full payment is required by 4/13/98. 
 
 Car Rental Conditions: 
 Taxes (including in California, VLF taxes ranging up to $1.89 per day), registrations 
 fee/tax reimbursement, and airport access fees/taxes, if any, are extra. Optional CDW, 
 liability insurance, fuel, additional driver fee, drop charges and other optional items 
 are extra. Rates higher for renters under age 25. Rates valid for rentals commencing on 
 Saturday and ending by 11:59 PM on Tuesday. Rates only valid during week in which they are 
 published via TWA Internet site. A 24-hour advance reservation is required. Availability is 
 limited. 
 
 Hotel Conditions: 
 Hilton Hotels and Resorts special rates are available only during the specific week in which
 they are published via the TWA Hot Deals Internet site and the HiltonNet Internet site. 
 Limited availability; rooms at these Hilton Value Rates are sold on a first-come, 
 first-served basis. Availability, rate, and terms of occupancy are not guaranteed and will 
 be confirmed at time of reservation. Participating hotels, rates and terms are subject to 
 change without notice. Single or double occupancy. Early check-in, late check-out subject 
 to availability. No extra charge for children when they stay in parents' or grandparents' 
 room; total room occupancy subject to local fire safety regulations and other applicable 
 laws or regulations. Rates vary by season, do not include any other fees or charges, 
 including without limitation state or local taxes or gratuities and are subject to change 
 without notice. Advance booking required. Advance deposit may be required. Offer cannot be 
 combined with any other special discounts, coupons, certificates, special rates, 
 promotional offers, award stays, or meeting/group stays. Hilton reserves the right to cancel
 any Hilton Value Rate at any time without notice. Hilton is not responsible for the terms 
 of other offers in the program, or for any electronic, computer, telephone, security, virus
 or any other problem or damage related to use of the program or its offers. 
 
 
 
 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
 
 For reservations call 1-800-221-2000 (domestic) or 1-800-892-4141 (international) 
 or call your travel agent and ask for TWA's special Internet fares. 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Global Web Builders 
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 23:52:01 -0700 (PDT)
To: (Recipient list suppressed)
Subject: Pauline Hanson's One Nation April Newsletter
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980407064648.006d9a24@mail.pronet.net.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Issue 1.9, April 1998

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
PLEASE NOTE: No unsolicited email is sent. If you do not want to be on the
mailing list please say "REMOVE" in the subject line and return this message
in the body.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear One Nation Supporter in New South Wales

--------

L A S T    C H A N C E!!!!!

DRAW THIS WEEKEND!

Have you got your tickets for One Nation first birthday raffle yet?

The first prize is a QANTAS Global Explorer Holiday for two valued at
$12,000 - a 23 day trip visiting Paris, London, New York, Los Angeles,
Anaheim and Honolulu.

The second prize is a 7 day holiday to Hawaii at the Outrigger Reef Hotel
for two - value $5,000.

The third prize is a 7nights stay at the Novotel Palm Cove at Cairns - value
$3,000.

You can order a book of 5 tickets (minimum) at $10 per book (or $2 per
ticket) by credit card by phoning 1800 620088.

Winner's names being drawn at One Nation's Birthday Party at 7pm on April
11th 1998.

Winners will be notified by phone and mail with the results being published
in the Sydney Morning Herald on Friday 17th April 1998.

Be quick - order now while tickets remain!

---------

The Federal and Queensland One Nation web sites are now live but still under
construction. 

12 Queensland Federal members can be viewed and about 40 Queensland State
members are now on-line - many with photographs and background information.

Federal web site at:
http://www.gwb.com.au/onenation/federal
(PLEASE HELP WHERE YOU CAN - SEE LINK TO "Becoming involved".)

Qld State Web Site at:
http://www.gwb.com.au/onenation/qldstate

Last weekend about 50 Queensland One Nation candidates met at Toowoomba,
images and story:
http://www.gwb.com.au/onenation/qldstate/toowoomba/

This weekend will be a historic one. It was less than 12 months ago that
Pauline Hanson launched her party 

(FULL STORY ON THE LAUNCH ON April 10 1997 ON THE ONE NATION ARCHIVE HERE:
http://www.gwb.com.au/gwb/news/onenation/launch.html)

We have established a new web page called "
Pauline Hanson's One Nation - the first year".


***********Bookmark this website at:************
http://www.gwb.com.au/gwb/news/history

from this website you will be able to follow the action at Pauline's farm
this weekend (10th to 12th April). The writer will be arriving early this
Friday and be recording the events with images daily - until Sunday 12th
April. (Remember to use your browser's refresh option).

GWB 



Scott Balson





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSquncr 
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 14:26:21 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re:Nobody
Message-ID: <42ab22dc.352a99b7@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


In a message dated 4/7/98 4:19:39 PM Central Daylight Time, nobody writes:

<< Stan, somebody needs to pry your cocksucking lips off 
 of Pat robertson's cock long enough to beat your stupid 
 fucking ass down with a clue-by-four.
 
 stop swallowing all that mainstream media jizz, you
 fucking cumbucket, and quit the dope too. >>

I see you've come out of your closet, Nobody!  

Stan




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Sumlatino 
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 18:23:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: hi
Message-ID: <9735204b.352ac22f@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

 


To: Sumlatino@aol.com
Subject: hi
From: Sumlatino 
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 20:09:29 EDT
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Click here for FREE
pictures




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 12:04:47 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Is Privacy-hater Gary Burnore a Sex Offender?
Message-ID: <199804071904.VAA03935@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I just found this posted to usenet.  Can anyone in NC verify it?

Subject:      IMPORTANT: Gary L. Burnore is a Sex Offender!
From:         tsatan@hotmail.com
Date:         1998/04/06
Message-ID:   <6gau3g$82$1@orthanc.reference.com>
Newsgroups:   triangle.general
 
Looking through the new NC Sex Offender Registry, who did I see?
   GARY LEE BURNORE
   4201 BLAND ROAD APT J
   RALEIGH NC 27609
Offense and Conviction Information:
   Conviction Date: 03-13-1997
   NC Statute: 14-202.1 - INDECENT LIBERTY MINOR
   Sentence Imposed: PROBATION 3Y
   Court County: SANTA CLARA, CA
   
Two questions:
   1-Is this the same jerk who posts regularly to triangle.general?
   2-If so: anyone know anything else about this conviction?
 
Thanks.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mixmaster 
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 22:09:34 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: cmea
Message-ID: <199804080500.WAA13654@sirius.infonex.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


A few weeks ago someone referenced a program that realtime
decrypted PCS crypto however I managed to loose it and the 
archives seem to be not available. Could someone repost
the name of the program or even better a link to it...

thanks




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 13:52:13 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Stan is Nobody's Friend?
Message-ID: <199804072052.WAA16460@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 15:45:17 EDT
From: StanSquncr 
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Nobody's Friend

In a message dated 4/7/98 2:26:38 PM Central Daylight Time, nobody@REPLAY.COM
writes:

<< From:         tsatan@hotmail.com >>

I would read that as - T(he)Satan@HOTmail.com if I were you! ;-)  I think he
thinks he's serious. (a reminder - IMHO, the Christian Coalition is the anti-
Christ in disguise)

Stan


Stan, somebody needs to pry your cocksucking lips off 
of Pat robertson's cock long enough to beat your stupid 
fucking ass down with a clue-by-four.

stop swallowing all that mainstream media jizz, you
fucking cumbucket, and quit the dope too.

your daddy





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 21:24:27 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com (Cypherpunks)
Subject: Cost of Ak manufacture
Message-ID: <199804080420.XAA15085@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text


With the current prices on AK clones being around $400, I expect that
their domestic manufacture will become profitable. In fact, as someone
else has noted, any toy maker would be able to produce all parts of the
AKs, with the possible exception of barrels.

Judging by their construction, there is not a lot of costs and they
should be a lot cheaper than AR-15s (against which I have almost nothing).

So, the question is, it is realistic to expect that AK s will be
manufactured here? Will the control freaks be able to stop it?

	- Igor.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: alt1@snowhill.com (Al Thompson)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 02:13:03 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com (Cypherpunks)
Subject: Re: Cost of Ak manufacture
Message-ID: <199804080912.EAA20228@frost.snowhill.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 11:20 PM 4/7/98 -0500, Igor Chudov @ home wrote:

>Judging by their construction, there is not a lot of costs and they
>should be a lot cheaper than AR-15s (against which I have almost nothing).
>
>So, the question is, it is realistic to expect that AK s will be
>manufactured here? Will the control freaks be able to stop it?
  
Two major problems.  There is VERY little domestic manufacture of 7.62x39
ammo, and most of what is already out there is not reloadable.  Even if AK
clones became widespread, all the feds would have to do would be to ban the
import of the ammo.
 
Secondly, while it would certainly be possible for a manufacturing facility
to construct an AK from raw materials, if "push comes to shove," it would be
much faster and cheaper for people to "reconstruct" the Sten parts they have
laying around.  This has the added advantage that ammo is readily available
for those.
 
While 7.62x39 might become hard to find, the common US military and NATO
calibers (7.62NATO, 5.56, and 9mm) will be widely available.
 

 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Your Yashy 
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 02:22:01 -0700 (PDT)
To: "H. M." 
Subject: RE: [PGP-USERS-4748]: Legality in Canada
In-Reply-To: <002b01bd6261$02cd4a40$c0026ac2@menezo>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On Tue, 7 Apr 1998, H. M. wrote:

> >I think you should perhaps read a little more maboy...
> 
> I know I should, and I do.  Never claimed to be a guru or else, did I?  I
> just said what I knew, ie. gave my opinion (even if I am a newbie), which is
> something you obviously don't like.  Perhaps you didn't read (sic) that I
> kept using "I think", "I believe", "I guess", etc. instead of "I STATE".
Perhaps you didn't read the 411 for the PGP-Mailing-List. I don't recall
it saying "Ask unrelated questions if your a newbie." IMO anyone
interested in "2600" groups can find 411 all over the www.
also there are alt.2600 newsgroups, as well as other places. I personally
wouldn't even mind if you kept it off the list and asked if I knew what
2600 is, but trying to "teach" ppl what you "think" 2600 is.. has no place
on this mailing list.

> >...with any "group" nowadays, there is a FAQ avaliable for
> >newbies etc (obviously like yourself).
> ... others just know ever since... never were newbies, hey?
You don't know how to read?

> >They are not "supposedly hackers and phreakers". Aso the
> >debatable issure of exact translation of a hacker, IMO it
> >is anyone that has altered ANY program.
> The issue of exact translation should be, perhaps, discussed on a grammar,
> language, or else mailing list if it is to start a flame.
I have no interest in starting a flame, you have embarrased yourself well
enough.

> >p.s. If it wasn't for hackers, you wouldn't have the
> >technology you have.
> If it wasn't for you... am I in front of a top developer or similar?  Sorry,
If I simply wrote the 2600 faq (which I didnt) it would have bettered
society, because idiots would have an idea what it is.

> I didn't notice, all I can see is a squared 14'' screen.
Well, obviously you stumbled upon a keyboard as well, prematurely perhaps.

> >OH what you've read on the beloved www. I'd imagine you
> >read an article on a webpage full of sex ad banners as
> >well. I don't feel that I am an "outlawed hero" but I feel
> >I better society in various ways.
> You see, you just imagine (as I "guessed, believed,..."), and that's a good
> thing (even imagining with a sick mind...
> sex add banners?).  As for bettering society... how? trying to scare people
> away so that you are THE ONE with the know-how?
I'm not trying to "scare you away". (you'd know if I was "trying"). 

> 
> >As I've already said, you have alot more reading to do.
> I'm sure if we ever get to meet each other, you'll teach me a lot and
> perhaps lighten me... meanwhile, I'll just try to learn away from those like
> you, I'll leave psycotic tales for others, if you don't mind me to.
I'll help you with anything I can, off-list. In the meantime, read.

> I never said or stated hackers or the like are to be prosecuted or else,
> never tried to raise a moral nor
> ethical argument about, I just posed a question on (personal) security.
Pretending you have an idea on what 2600 is not related to security.
(Although the 2600 group irnoically does).


> Most of all I DID NOT try to raise a flame by annoying anyone.  If you are
> up to it, or if you believe you are Robin Hood (or Rob Hack for this
> matter), I don't give a monkey about it, just visit your psychiatrist, or
> talk to a priest/ess if you have a religion, or wait for the green people to
> come fetch you up.  As I've just said, I won't get involved on a flame with
> you, so don't bother to answer, I won't do it at all.
Perhaps if you reply off-list or try stop trying to pull your head out of
toilet, I'll leave you alone.
> 

> I apologize to others on this list for this, but I felt I had to answer once
as all newbies do.

> (no more, promised).
promise?

> 
> 
> H. Menezo Ganau
> homega@vlc.servicom.es
> homega@latinmail.com
> 
> 
> DH/DSS  (1024/1024)
> Key ID:  0x614DB9FA
> 
> RSA (2048)
> Key ID:  0x160B1B5B
> 

- -shareware email coutesy of yashy- -send $10 cdn funds if you read it-
email@reply     irc@ircnet #italy     icq@4497826    pgpID@ 0xD0186E85
pubring@www.chat.carleton.ca/~nmarion   home@ottawa canada   sleep@7am
- -                                                                    -
     

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Version: 2.6.2

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 05:24:14 -0700 (PDT)
To: alt1@snowhill.com (Al Thompson)
Subject: Re: Cost of Ak manufacture
In-Reply-To: <199804080912.EAA20228@frost.snowhill.com>
Message-ID: <199804081221.HAA18238@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text


Al Thompson wrote:
> At 11:20 PM 4/7/98 -0500, Igor Chudov @ home wrote:
> >Judging by their construction, there is not a lot of costs and they
> >should be a lot cheaper than AR-15s (against which I have almost nothing).
> >
> >So, the question is, it is realistic to expect that AK s will be
> >manufactured here? Will the control freaks be able to stop it?
>   
> Two major problems.  There is VERY little domestic manufacture of 7.62x39
> ammo, and most of what is already out there is not reloadable.  Even if AK
> clones became widespread, all the feds would have to do would be to ban the
> import of the ammo.
>  
> Secondly, while it would certainly be possible for a manufacturing facility
> to construct an AK from raw materials, if "push comes to shove," it would be
> much faster and cheaper for people to "reconstruct" the Sten parts they have
> laying around.  This has the added advantage that ammo is readily available
> for those.
>  
> While 7.62x39 might become hard to find, the common US military and NATO
> calibers (7.62NATO, 5.56, and 9mm) will be widely available.

Al, you can make AKs in .223. There is no problem with that. So your
objection is valid, but not insurmountable.

	- Igor.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: winahouse23@usa.net
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 13:57:11 -0700 (PDT)
To: mailer345@usa.net
Subject: WIN US$1,000,000 'BELMOR HOUSE'
Message-ID: <199802045346.GAK09957@usa.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


		WIN US$1,000,000 'BELMOR HOUSE'
		FOR JUST US$20 VIA THE INTERNET


For just US$20 there is a chance to scoop the fabulous prize of 'Belmor
House' - a US$1,000,000 FREEHOLD property in Oxford, England.

Entrants need not "want a house" in Oxford in order to ENTER AND BENEFIT from
this Contest as the Winner can SELL the US$1,000,000 HOUSE or RENT IT out for
a FIVE FIGURE yearly INCOME, or use it as a SECOND HOME.

The Winner gets the house mortgage-free with clear title and does not pay any
closing costs . . .  and the US$1,000,000 house is the Winner's to do with, as
the Winner wishes.  BUT TO WIN IT YOU NEED TO ENTER the Contest . . .

Entrants can download Entry Form, Contest Rules, Drawings, Photographs and
Read all about Edwardian 'Belmor House', in historic beautiful Oxford by
entering:

	            http://www.win-a-property.com/

The idea is to RAISE MONEY for CHARITY by giving away all profits after the
deduction of the property value and costs.  The Entry Fee is non-refundable
as after costs the money raised is all donated to Charity.

This is the FIRST TIME EVER that on a worldwide basis a US$1,000,000
beautiful Edwardian property in Oxford, England has been offered on the
Internet as the prize in a Contest, which is valid where not prohibited by law, and may herald the start of a new trend to 'sell' property through the Internet.

To win 'Belmor', a 13-room five bathroom Edwardian house in prestigious
residential central north Oxford, Entrants need to:

	1.  Key in 50-to-75 words in English on
		"Why The Entrant Needs The House"
	2.  Key in full name and address
	3. Select payment of Entry Fee of US$20 on any
		 major credit card and press
		the button to send the Entry by email or by fax.

It is as easy as that on the Internet.

'Belmor House' has been valued unfurnished at US$1,000,000 by internationally
renowned estate agents, Savills.

The Winner of this US$1,000,000 house will be the Entrant whose Entry,
in the opinion of an independent panel of judges, is interesting, personal
and persuasive, telling "Why The Entrant Needs The House".

The Freehold property is the only prize.  There is no cash alternative.

Not a lottery or a raffle, the Contest has been structured by Solicitors from
London as a skill competition to comply with British law under the Lotteries
and Amusements Act 1976 and the British Codes of Advertising and Sales
Promotion.  A firm of Chartered Accountants is monitoring the Contest.  The
Contest money is being held in a special bank account and cannot be touched
until the close of the Contest.

Closing date is 30th June 1998 and the Winner will be announced on the
27th July 1998 on our website.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Rabid Wombat 
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 21:34:48 -0700 (PDT)
To: ichudov@algebra.com
Subject: Re: Cost of Ak manufacture
In-Reply-To: <199804081221.HAA18238@manifold.algebra.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


> > >So, the question is, it is realistic to expect that AK s will be
> > >manufactured here? Will the control freaks be able to stop it?
> >   
> >  
> > While 7.62x39 might become hard to find, the common US military and NATO
> > calibers (7.62NATO, 5.56, and 9mm) will be widely available.
> 
> Al, you can make AKs in .223. There is no problem with that. So your
> objection is valid, but not insurmountable.
> 
> 	- Igor.

Or make AK's in 7.62 NATO. As I recall, there was an AK variant 
(Valmet??) available in 5.56 NATO and 7.62 NATO years ago.

-OrdnanceMonger




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: info@goodnews.idx.biz
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 07:42:10 -0700 (PDT)
To: info@goodnews.idx.biz
Subject: CASH AVAILABLE / ANY PURPOSE
Message-ID: <199804081437.KAA05439@efni.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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INTERBANK 201-487-2694






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 09:09:13 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: IMPORTANT: Gary L. Burnore is a Sex Offender!
In-Reply-To: <6gduj4$61g@basement.replay.com>
Message-ID: <199804081609.SAA05934@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Camille Klein  wrote:

> In triangle.general Information Security  wrote:
>        
> : Someone Vulis can actually call "pedophile child molester"
> : and be accurate???
>    
> No.
>    
> I won't go into the details, but effectively it's a load of bullshit that
> unfortunately is being used to cause Gary Burnore some real problems.  I
> have to agree with Hank on this--IF it's at all possible, I hope he can
> have some legal recourse.

I visited the http://sbi.jus.state.nc.us/sor/ website, did a search for
"Gary Burnore", and the story is confirmed.  If it were a "load of
bullshit", I suspect that Gary would have had it hauled away by now.
There's even a mugshot there.  Gary Burnore, of course, is welcome to
post his side of the story if he cares to.

The date listed for his conviction is about the same time that Gary Burnore
was whining about some "anon asshole" whom he alleged had falsely accused
him of molesting his live-in girlfriend's teenage daughter.  She lived --
guess where -- in Santa Clara, CA.  It looks like Gary's rampage to get a
couple of anonymous remailers shut down for spreading "libel" was bogus.
If a story is true, it isn't libel.  And when he couldn't get them to censor
embarassing posts to usenet, the made-to-order "spam baiting" mysteriously
appeared, and finally finished the job.  Just a coincidence, I suppose...

Let me guess -- this "conspiracy" to make Gary Burnore look bad has now
infiltrated the Santa Clara Police Dept., the San Francisco Police Dept.,
and the North Carolina attorney general's office?

By definition, Gary Burnore is innocent of ANYTHING he's accused of. 
And since this is the same Gary Burnore who was so adamant that posting
publicly-available information to usenet was acceptable:

   Registration Status: Registered
   Possible Violations: None Reported
   BURNORE,GARY LEE 
   Alias Names:
   BURNORE,GARY LEE
   
                                         Photo Date: 08-27-1997
                                              SRN: 001693S3
   
   Reported Date: 12-16-1997 Address Verified: NO
   Street: 4201 BLAND ROAD APT J
   City: RALEIGH State: NC Zip: 27609 County: WAKE
   
   Race: W Sex: M Height: 5'08" Weight: 170 LBS. Hair: BRO Eyes: BLU
   Birth Date(s): 10-13-1957
   Scars, marks, tattoos: 
   State ID #: FBI #: Dept. Corr. #: 
   
   Contact County: WAKE Registration Date: 08-27-1997
   Conviction Date: 03-13-1997 Release Date: 
   NC Statute: 14-202.1 - INDECENT LIBERTY MINOR
   Sentence Imposed: PROBATION: 3Y
   Court County: - SANTA CLARA, CA
   
   Reported Date: 08-27-1997 Address Verified: NO
   Street: 4201 BLAND ROAD
   City: RALEIGH State: NC Zip: 27609 County: WAKE




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 16:31:57 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: CIA Joins MCC
Message-ID: <199804082331.TAA16075@camel7.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


There's a recent notice that the CIA has become an
associate member of the Microelectronics and Computer 
Technology Corporation , the research 
consortium of several high-tech firms located in Austin. 
The notice also lists a project there called "InfoSleuth." 
See the notice (among other national security 
opportunities) at:

   http://jya.com/nso040898.htm

A reporter working on the story has asked for any information
on the CIA enrollment and InfoSleuth. Send it to her, or
to me if a cut-out is needed:

Heather Harreld, senior reporter covering security at
Federal Computer Week in Washington.

heather@fcw.com






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 16:54:22 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Cell Phones of State
Message-ID: <199804082354.TAA31840@camel7.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


The State Dept Press Briefing today:

   MR. RUBIN:  I'm sorry I didn't come earlier, and I didn't 
   know that cell phones were permitted in the briefing room, 
   but I guess they are. Remember that phrase "cell phones", 
   it will come back in the next 24 hours.

Nothing else about it during the briefing. Curious, unless it refers
to the Senate's approval on April 1 of S.493, The Wireless 
Telephone Protection Act, which incorported amendments 
by the House of HR 2460, and that Clinton is expected to
sign it shortly.

Still, maybe State is going to announce something more
dramatic about SIGINT.

See S.493:

   http://jya.com/s493.txt






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 17:22:51 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: MCC Projects
Message-ID: <199804090022.UAA24087@camel7.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


MCC's InfoSleuth 1 and 2, as well as a host of
intriguing intelligence, surveillance and lots of
prying, hiding, and TA projects are listed and 
linked at:

   http://www.mcc.com/projects/government.html

The IC booty is plentiful in Austin, hooray for the
cpunks there. Time for an international get together
deep in the heart of Tejas.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ddt@lsd.com
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 20:23:32 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: House Democrats, ACLU criticize Clinton on crypto stand
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


There is some value in having a 900-pound software industry gorilla like
NAI pushing at the foolishness of current export policy in a 100% legal
way: it demonstrates to more and more of the citizenry (and business
leaders with influence) just how empty, archaic and damaging to US
interests that the current policies are.

It also gives Loyal Members of the Opposition such as the House Demo's and
the ACLU ample "ammunition" (excuse the expression) to discuss the details
of said Administration foolishness in full public view.

[ Excerpts below from ACLU's CYBER-LIBERTIES UPDATE 7 April 98           ]
[ for more details, see   ]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
House Democrats Criticize Clinton Position on Encryption

Twelve Democratic members of Congress last week sent a letter to President
Clinton telling him that they "strongly support legislation that would
substantially reform the Administration's export restrictions on
American-made encryption products."

The letter further states that the members are not satisfied with the
Administration's decision to attempt to resolve the current impasse on its
position on encryption by holding meetings with industry rather than
through legislation.

The letter also criticizes the administration's position on encryption
requiring strict restrictions on export of encryption programs despite the
widespread global availability and the impact of such restrictions on
privacy and commerce.

The letter further states:

Two developments in only the last two weeks illustrate the futility in
banning encryption's export or use. Network Associates, the nation's
largest independent maker of computer security software, has announced that
its Dutch subsidiary will sell an international version of its strongest
encryption program. In addition, an MIT scientist, Ronald Rivest, has just
proposed a new technique for securing computer files and communications,
called "chaffing and winnowing," which doesn't involve encryption at all.

The point is that the Administration can hardly control the proliferation
or direction of technology in the digital age. Consequently, the
discussions with industry will succeed only if the Administration commits
itself in these discussions to a major overhaul of its current export
policies and to policies that do not mandate or compel domestic controls on
encryption. Rather, government should recognize that in the coming decades
the protection of our nation's critical infrastructure and national
security interests demand foremost that American industry retain its global
leadership in the digital arena. A strong domestic high-tech industry -- in
cooperation with national security agencies and law enforcement officials
which have been granted sufficient resources by our government for meeting
the challenges of the digital age -- is the foremost priority for ensuring
American security and global leadership in the Information Age."

The letter was signed by the following Members of Congress:

Richard A. Gephardt, M.C.
Zoe Lofgren, M.C.
Vic Fazio, M.C.
Martin Frost, M.C.
Sam Gejdenson, M.C.
John Conyers, Jr., M.C.
Edward J. Markey, M.C.
Anna G. Eshoo, M.C.
Rick Boucher, M.C.
Calvin M. Dooley, M.C.
James P. Moran, M.C.
Adam Smith, M.C.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
ACLU Report Challenges Clinton Scare Tactics on Encryption

Charging that the Clinton Administration is using scare tactics to acquire
vast new powers to spy on all Americans, the ACLU has begun circulating a
white paper on the escalating battles over wiretapping in the digital age
to key members of Congress.

The new ACLU report -- Big Brother in the Wires -- says that the current
struggle over cryptography policy holds far-reaching and possibly
irrevocable consequences for all Americans. It makes an impassioned case
for limiting the government's ability to seize and review private
communications -- whether they are telephone conversations, FAX messages,
electronic mail, electronic fund transfers or medical records -- by
permitting the use of strong encryption.

The report comes as Congress grapples with fundamental disagreements over
encryption policy. On one side of the policy impasse are the law
enforcement and national security agencies -- the Justice Department, the
FBI, the National Security Council, the Drug Enforcement Agency and many
state and local agencies. On the other side are the communications
industry, the country's leading cryptographers and computer scientists and
civil liberties and privacy advocates.

"We are now at an historic crossroads," the report says. "We can use
emerging technologies to protect our personal privacy, or we can succumb to
scare tactics and to exaggerated claims about the law enforcement value of
electronic surveillance and give up our cherished rights, perhaps forever."

"If President Clinton and federal law enforcement authorities have their
way, new technology will make possible a much more intrusive and omniscient
level of surveillance than has ever been possible before," said ACLU
Legislative Counsel Gregory T. Nojeim. "Congress must reject this blatant
power grab and keep Big Brother out of our wires."

The ACLU report can be found at:
http://www.aclu.org/issues/cyber/wiretap_brother.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 -end excerpts-





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "CJ Parker" 
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 20:40:48 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: CoE/AoD Notice!
Message-ID: <19980409034001.16032.qmail@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Subject: 
            CoE/AoD Notice
       Date: 
            Wed, 08 Apr 1998 21:12:14 -0600
       From: 
            TruthMonger 
Organization: 
            "It's not FUD until *I* say it's FUD!"
         To: 
            bianca@dev.null
        CC: 
            cypherpunks@toad.com


Toto's computers were seized today by RCMP and Canadian Customs.

All communications with him, past, present and future, should be 
considered compromised.

Reroute the legal information, etc., that he requested Monday to
the sonofgomez address.

The good news is...he figured out where the 'yellow wire' goes...

TruthMonger709

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bryan Waters 
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 20:12:26 -0700 (PDT)
To: heather@fcw.com
Subject: Re: CIA Joins MCC
In-Reply-To: <199804082331.TAA16075@camel7.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980408221019.007ef290@onetimepad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



You will need to verify these facts.
I believe that the InfoSleuth project was the code name for InfoGlide a
data-mining startup currently located in the mcc building. 

They create advanced databases for fraud prevention and law enforcement
applications. 

http://www.infoglide.com

Call David Wheeler, founder of the company to verify the InfoSleuth connection
512-305-0267 

At 07:32 PM 4/8/98 -0400, John Young wrote:
>There's a recent notice that the CIA has become an
>associate member of the Microelectronics and Computer 
>Technology Corporation , the research 
>consortium of several high-tech firms located in Austin. 
>The notice also lists a project there called "InfoSleuth." 
>See the notice (among other national security 
>opportunities) at:
>
>   http://jya.com/nso040898.htm
>
>A reporter working on the story has asked for any information
>on the CIA enrollment and InfoSleuth. Send it to her, or
>to me if a cut-out is needed:
>
>Heather Harreld, senior reporter covering security at
>Federal Computer Week in Washington.
>
>heather@fcw.com
>
>
>
Bryan Waters                      http://www.ultimateprivacy.com
Director of Marketing             Voice: 512-305-0505
Ultimate Privacy Corporation      Fax: 512-305-0506




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "CJ Parker" 
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 23:35:00 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: I Broke PGP...sorry!
Message-ID: <19980409063426.8597.qmail@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
Version: PGP for Business Security 5.5
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=/Po2
-----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 22:00:18 -0700 (PDT)
To: wombat@mcfeely.bsfs.org (Rabid Wombat)
Subject: Re: Cost of Ak manufacture
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199804090458.XAA25250@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text


Rabid Wombat wrote:
> > > >So, the question is, it is realistic to expect that AK s will be
> > > >manufactured here? Will the control freaks be able to stop it?
> > >  
> > > While 7.62x39 might become hard to find, the common US military and NATO
> > > calibers (7.62NATO, 5.56, and 9mm) will be widely available.
> > 
> > Al, you can make AKs in .223. There is no problem with that. So your
> > objection is valid, but not insurmountable.
> > 
> 
> Or make AK's in 7.62 NATO. As I recall, there was an AK variant 
> (Valmet??) available in 5.56 NATO and 7.62 NATO years ago.
> 

Yugoslavian AKs were in .308. I've seen those, they are slightly bigger
than the regular aks. There are some chinese guns in 5.56.

Anyway, caliber is not a problem and not an issue. The issue is
possibility of producing cheap reliable fun guns for the general public.

	- Igor.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: owner-cypherpunks
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 00:21:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: 40 MILLION EMAIL ADDRESSES LOW PRICE !!!
Message-ID: <199804090720.AAA05265@cygint.cygnus.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: owner-cypherpunks
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 00:33:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Adult CD
Message-ID: <199804090733.AAA20402@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Are you interested in ADULT Cd-ROMs we would like to give you 2 FREE sampels, se more about this                
great offer at :
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "CJ Parker" 
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 00:38:24 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: LCO
Message-ID: <19980409073751.796.qmail@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
Version: PGP for Business Security 5.5

mQENAzUsawIAAAEIALd/93zizbBbg8LsUmcilJaRChmdfClAFkgxWvzNFQw4H24V
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+TNc+xULb9gKW23cug==
=/Po2
-----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "CJ Parker" 
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 02:16:41 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Thanks for the mammaries...
Message-ID: <19980409091608.582.qmail@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


  First, I would like to express my appreciation for the
fact that every single subscriber to the cypherpunks
distributed mailing lists has chosen to participate in
the opening salvo (on April 19, 1998, 9:02 a.m.) of
the Digital Revolution.
  Unfortunately, I ratted you all out earlier today.
I'm sorry, but the Men In Really Dirty White threatened
to tell my mom, if I didn't confess. Although mom has 
been dead for quite some time, my knee-jerk programming
kicked in (pardon the pun).
  The good news is that I exposed Bill Gates as the
RingLeader of the highly illegal conspiracy of which
you are all a part, so at least you should have some
deep-pockets on your side when THEY (TM) kick in your door.

  I will be entering the Witless Projection Pogrom shortly,
so I suppose that there is no harm in revealing that my
original persona on the cypherpunks list, the one you
have all known me by for quite some time, is Blanc Weber.
  I'm sorry I've been deceiving you all with my various
Toto and TruthMonger personas, but during my volunteer
work at the Handle Institute, I was infected with 
Tourette Syndrome from a dirty needle (while *sewing*,
you cynical little cocksuckers!).

  I am also the one who has been sending the ASCII-art
spams to the list. Dimitri was completely innocent, and
you all should feel terrible about the way you treated
him.

  I know that all of the list subscribers will carry on
with the TRIN plan on April 19th because they are truly
committed to the violent overthrow of all governments,
and not just because I made it with all of you under the
guise of my Lynne Harrison persona.
(Personal note to Human Gus-Peter: No, I'm not wearing
 any panties...)

  I feel particularly bad about ratting out our Philosopher
King, Tim C. May, since he was such a great help to me
under his Dale Thorn and John Young personas.
  I also ratted out Adam Back for his part in the 
murder of Princess Diana, but it backfired when he was
secretly Knighted hours later, by the Queen Mother (No!
not John Gilmore, you fucking idiots!)

  Anyway, before signing off, I would like to inform you
that my real opinion of all of you who responded to my
Toto and TruthMonger posts is about the same as the
opinion of Billy Crystal (when he was on 'Soap') in
regard to all of the fucking idiots who finally connected
to the ClueServer, slapped themselves on the forehead,
and said, "What am I doing? I'm arguing with a *dummy*!"

It's been real...

Love & XXXX's,
Blanc Weber
"I'm not an asshole, but I play one in real life."


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: TruthMonger 
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 03:53:40 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Why no one has ever seen Toto and L.M. Boyd together... / [Fwd: L.M. Boyd E-mail Sampler Discontinued]
Message-ID: <352C9C60.30DE@dev.null>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Gomez, Bianca, Toto, L.M. Boyd...--->YOU!


To: multiple recipients of 
Subject: L.M. Boyd E-mail Sampler Discontinued 
From: sampler-request@lmboyd.com
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 13:29:31 -0700


**********************

The L.M. Boyd e-mail sampler has been discontinued. Thank you for your
interest and kind comment. It's much appreciated.

L.M. Boyd 
Crown Syndicate, Inc.

***********************






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: press@1stpress.com
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 04:45:30 -0700 (PDT)
To: press@1stpress.com
Subject: Was 475.00 NOW 99.00 read...
Message-ID: <199804091145.EAA22387@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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IN ADDITION TO YOUR FOUR NEW LOCATIONS, this package
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   We give you the http:// of a site to fill out a form once
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 To be removed from any future mailings
 please reply with REMOVE in the subject line.
 Thank You
 -----------------------------------------------





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: sixfigures1@juno.com
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 00:55:15 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: Make 6 Figure Income Working In Your Pajamas !!
Message-ID: <61185916_73597211>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




 Make 6 Figure Income Working In Your Pajamas !!

Each day I get out of bed, brush my teeth and walk into 
the next room to begin my work day..... Still in my PJs! 

And who am I working with, you ask. 
  
Well, my strategic partners are major corporations like:

   Netscape
   UUNet
   Oracle
   Sun Microsystems
   Worldcom (soon to be the 2nd largest phone 
             company after merging with MCI)
   Sprint Cellular
       ....Incredible names in the communications industry!!

The products and services from these corporations, which include Internet 
services, telecommunications services and unified messaging services, are 
targeted to the consumer, small office and home office (SOHO) markets.  
And there is even more coming in the next few months!

And NO, it does not cost the king's ransom to sign up.   How about $25?!!!

Want more info?   Reply with PAJAMAS in the subject.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: GIC 
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 03:43:15 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: GKB FREE SERVICES UPDATE (4/98)
Message-ID: <199804091043.DAA21696@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Update on Global KnowledgeBase (http://gkb.com) free internet services. (4/98)


Dear gkb user,

Thanks to you, our campaign for Global KnowledgeBase (http://gkb.com) is 
continues to be a great success attracting more than 4000 unique users/daily.

Continue to Explore and Contribute to create the accumulated knowledge in gkb.com,
for the benefit of all.

To login to the GKB applications please use the gkb login as follows:

Your login ID : cypherpunks@toad.com 
GKB User Code : 4782

New features
============

Global Journal - The newest and most dynamic meduim to exchange internet 
knowledge, in Global Journal, you, the GKB user, have the opportunity to 
express your opinion, provide newsworthy internet links, or cite facts.

GlobalShop - best source of information on over 60,000 products listed, 
giving direct access to the price lists of the best known, compare prices, 
look for new models and benefit from special offers.

Build your e-commerce, integrate your own catalog in Global Shop for free.

Global Free - Explore and Contribute to the free Internet services knowledgebase

Web messaging - if you have an email address @gkb.com (which is free), explore your Email directly on the web.  

Personal&Email KB - If you are looking for users sharing the your area of interests, 
or simply email of users in your area.

GlobalChat - web based chat for all

The old and successful free features are always there.
=====================================================

Interactive Classifieds  - Free interactive classifieds segmented by marketplace 
and criteria (more than 8000 ads in Geneva area only)

Press Releases -  Free press release publication.

Business Guide  - Free  business internet site application

GlobalJob - Free job listing for companies, and free CV listing for individuals.

Business Opportunities - Free business opporrtunities publication by marketplace/industry

Free email addresses at gkb.com are always available.

Global Finance - gkb financial knowledgebase 

Global Events - free events listing in the events knowledgeBase


We hope you will find the new and old feature useful.

Regards

Gkb team






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: GIC 
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 03:43:08 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: GKB FREE SERVICES UPDATE (4/98)
Message-ID: <199804091043.DAA21689@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Update on Global KnowledgeBase (http://gkb.com) free internet services. (4/98)


Dear gkb user,

Thanks to you, our campaign for Global KnowledgeBase (http://gkb.com) is 
continues to be a great success attracting more than 4000 unique users/daily.

Continue to Explore and Contribute to create the accumulated knowledge in gkb.com,
for the benefit of all.

To login to the GKB applications please use the gkb login as follows:

Your login ID : cypherpunks@toad.com 
GKB User Code : 4782

New features
============

Global Journal - The newest and most dynamic meduim to exchange internet 
knowledge, in Global Journal, you, the GKB user, have the opportunity to 
express your opinion, provide newsworthy internet links, or cite facts.

GlobalShop - best source of information on over 60,000 products listed, 
giving direct access to the price lists of the best known, compare prices, 
look for new models and benefit from special offers.

Build your e-commerce, integrate your own catalog in Global Shop for free.

Global Free - Explore and Contribute to the free Internet services knowledgebase

Web messaging - if you have an email address @gkb.com (which is free), explore your Email directly on the web.  

Personal&Email KB - If you are looking for users sharing the your area of interests, 
or simply email of users in your area.

GlobalChat - web based chat for all

The old and successful free features are always there.
=====================================================

Interactive Classifieds  - Free interactive classifieds segmented by marketplace 
and criteria (more than 8000 ads in Geneva area only)

Press Releases -  Free press release publication.

Business Guide  - Free  business internet site application

GlobalJob - Free job listing for companies, and free CV listing for individuals.

Business Opportunities - Free business opporrtunities publication by marketplace/industry

Free email addresses at gkb.com are always available.

Global Finance - gkb financial knowledgebase 

Global Events - free events listing in the events knowledgeBase


We hope you will find the new and old feature useful.

Regards

Gkb team






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: owner-wow-com-news-update@nmpinc.com
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 15:00:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Wireless News Update
Message-ID: <199804091815.NAA08688@Indy1.newmedium.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



 ======================================================
 This update is sponsored by Hughes Network Systems
   http://www.hns.com
 ======================================================

 CTIA's WOW-COM named a "TOP WEB SITE" by Mobile Computing &
 Communications Magazine (2/98)
 
 Dear WOW-COM Reader:
 
 WOW-COM(TM) is the wireless industry's online information source, a
 FREE service of CTIA.  The world of wireless is in constant motion.
 Stay on top of industry news and benefit from CTIA's analysis by
 reading http://www.wow-com.com everyday.
    
 If you wish to remove yourself from this mailing list, please
 send an email to  with the following
 command in the body of your email message:
 
      	unsubscribe wow-com-news-update
 
 If you wish to get in contact with the owner of the list, (i.e.,
 if you have difficulty unsubscribing, or have questions about
 the list itself) please send email to 
 .
 Thank you.
 
 INDEX:
 ======
 1) 	WIRELESS INDUSTRY SETS NEW GROWTH RECORD:
            11,270,301 NET SUBSCRIBER GROWTH IN 1997 
 2)	TELEPHONE INDUSTRY GROUPS JOIN IN ASKING FCC TO RESOLVE WIRETAP
             ISSUES
 3)	EMC CENTER TO HOLD SPECIAL WORKSHOP AT OKLAHOMA UNIVERSITY, MAY
            20-21 ON MEDICAL DEVICE IMMUNITY TESTING USING NEW ANSI C63.18
            STANDARD                                                
 4)	LOOKING FOR A JOB IN THE WIRELESS INDUSTRY?
   
 ***********WIRELESS JOB OPPORTUNITY OF THE WEEK***********
 
 http://www.wow-com.com/wworkplace/
   Company: Hughes Network Systems
   Job Title: 	Senior Digital Design Engineer - Hardware
   Location:  	Germantown, MD - US
   Job Description:   Lead digital design engineer for satellite
   baseband communications hardware.  Position requires experience in
   design of digital communications subsystems such as modulators,
   demodulators, digital filters, NCOs and FEC encoders/decoders.
   Requires BSEE (MSEE preferred) and 7-10 years of digital design
   experience with emphasis on communication circuit design.
 
**********************************************************************

 WIRELESS INDUSTRY SETS NEW GROWTH RECORD:
 11,270,301 NET SUBSCRIBER GROWTH IN 1997 
 ==========================================================
 
 http://www.wow-com.com/professional/whatshot
 "America's love affair with the wireless phone is as passionate as

 ever," observed Thomas E. Wheeler, President and CEO of the Cellular
 Telecommunications Industry Association (CTIA) in releasing the
 Association's latest Semi-Annual Data Survey.  As of December 31,
 1997, there were 55,312,293 wireless phone subscribers in the United
 States.  (CTIA estimates that there are nearly 58 million subscribers 
as of today's date.) This is a net growth of 11,270,301 subscribers-a 
12- month record. More people using wireless phones mean
that customer bills are down and company revenues are up.  Click link
above for the highlights!  
 ==========================================================
 
 TELEPHONE INDUSTRY GROUPS JOIN IN ASKING FCC TO RESOLVE WIRETAP ISSUES
 
 http://www.wow-com.com/results/professional/news/
 The major telecommunications associations in the United States have
 joined together to ask the Federal Communications Commission to
 resolve the dispute between the industry and the Federal Bureau of
 Investigation over new wiretap requirements. The industry groups are
 committed to assisting law enforcement agencies in carrying out all
 court-ordered wiretaps, but they argue that the FBI is requesting
 surveillance capabilities that go beyond the law.
 ==========================================================
 
 EMC CENTER TO HOLD SPECIAL WORKSHOP AT OKLAHOMA UNIVERSITY, MAY 20-
 21 ON MEDICAL DEVICE IMMUNITY TESTING USING NEW ANSI C63.18 STANDARD
 
 
 http://www.wow-com.com/professional/whatshot
 The University of Oklahoma Center for the Study of  Wireless EMC has
 announced that it will conduct a special workshop on testing RF
 immunity of medical devices to be held at the Norman Campus on May
 20-21. Attendance is limited and registrations are on a first-come,
 first-served basis.  The two-day seminar, which includes a field trip
 to a local hospital, will focus on using the new ANSI C63.18 Standard,
 "Recommended Practice for an On-Site, Ad Hoc Test
  Method for Estimating Electromagnetic Immunity of Medical Devices to
 Specific
  Radio-Frequency Transmitters". 
 ==========================================================
 
 http://www.wow-com.com/wworkplace/
 Join thousands of other wireless professionals searching for the
 perfect wireless job opportunity by logging on to CTIA's Career
 Center.  This free online career service offers wireless industry
 employment opportunities and information on leading wireless
 employment and professional placement services.  The Career Center is
 global, offering international job listing and direct access to the
 global wireless workplace.  Click above to find your next wireless job
 opportunity! 
 =============================
 MORE WOW-COM(TM) FEATURES
 =============================
 WOW-COM(TM) is current: Routine Updates throughout the business day 
 WOW-COM(TM) is insightful: CTIA's unbiased analysis 
 WOW-COM(TM) is beneficial: Find products and services in
 WOW-COM(TM)'s Virtual Trade Show. List open positions in the
 WOW-COM(TM) Career
 Center, receive resumes via email and hire qualified individuals.
 ========================================================
 This update sponsored by: HUGHES NETWORK SYSTEMS
 
 http://www.hns.com/
 
 http://www.joinhns.com
 Hughes Network Systems is one of the fastest-growing digital
 communications companies in the world, providing world-class wireless,
 satellite and broadcast products to customers in over 60 countries.
 Today, HNS employs over 500 software engineers and 200 hardware
 engineers dedicated to developing our products, services and systems
 from our Germantown, Maryland headquarters and San Diego, California
 facility. Click above to learn more.
 
 HNS HOT JOBS CAREER INVITATIONAL. On Saturday, April 25, Hughes
 Network Systems (HNS) is hosting a Hot Jobs Career Invitational at our
 facility in Gaithersburg, Maryland (metro Washington, DC). For this
 1-day event, we're bringing in the best the industry has to 
 offer to meet with our Hiring Managers. Interview expenses will be
 paid for qualified candidates.
 
 
 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 10:55:15 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: NSA Report on Crypto Risks
Message-ID: <199804091755.NAA32193@camel7.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Federal Computer Week  of April 6
lists an article by Heather Harreld, "An NSA report 
details the risks of encryption technology," which is not
available online. 

So far Ms. Harreld has not responded to a request
for a copy, so if someone has a hardcopy we'd be 
grateful for a fax:

Fax: 212-799-4003.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Stuart Johnson 
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 15:15:59 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: ethernet encryption
Message-ID: <9209B012C2BBD111B6490008C728874C0EFACE@STEAM>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


hello all,

  i'm currently looking for a box or chipset that will encryption
ethernet traffic at or near wire speed. does anyone know of such a
thing?  anyhelp will be greatly appreciated.

  i'm not currently subscribed to cypherpunks so send any replies to me
at the email address below.

  thanks,
 ___________________________________________________
 Stuart Johnson			stuartj@packetengines.com
 Asic Design Engineer	Phone : (509) 777-7208
 Packet Engines Inc.		leading the Gigabit Ethernet revolution
 ___________________________________________________
 Key ID				: B65F9B8D
 Key Fingerprint		: F97D84A61C732CBAA1DA50A8D41963
 A BIG PRIME		:  2^3,021,377-1
 ___________________________________________________






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: TruthMonger 
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 17:58:53 -0700 (PDT)
To: camcc@mindspring.com
Subject: Guilty by definition...
Message-ID: <352D6F28.1592@dev.null>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


A poor fool who didn't realize that he had sealed his
own fate by responding to someone who had already 
ratted him out for a shot of Scotch with a beer
chaser wrote:

>For God's sake, another key; I'm gonna need a separate 
>floppy to track just you keys.

>But it's worth it; we bros.

Official Law Enforcement Dictionary

bro - 1. Co-conspirator 2. Accessory 3. Poor bastard
  who just fell in with the wrong company, and will
  probably spend the rest of his life in prison as
  a result of innocently replying to a UCE email
  titled, "How To Make Big $$$ At Home, Licking
  Your Own Nuts."





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 17:17:42 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Secure Cell Phones for State
Message-ID: <199804100017.UAA08863@camel7.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


U.S. State Dept Press Briefing today:

Briefer: James Rubin

Now, I have a piece of show-and-tell for you, which I do rarely around
here.  But I thought this was interesting enough, even for you cynical
and jaded journalists.  This is a secure cell phone.  Lieutenant General
Kenneth Minihan, Director of the National Security Agency, presented
Secretary Albright with a bank of Motorola Cipher-Tac 2000 security
modules to provide secure cellular communications.

This state of the art secure voice cellular technology will offer the
highest level of security wherever and whenever the Secretary and her
top advisors need to protect their communications.  So when you see us
carrying this beast around, rather than the slim-line phones we usually
like to use, you'll know that's because we're trying to have a secure
call.  That is not only for the obvious good reason that we want to make
sure nobody is interfering, but we also want to make sure that nobody is
making transcripts and passing them around for a variety of perfidious
reasons.

So this here is the original, first secure cell phone to be delivered to
Secretary Albright, and we thought you guys might get a kick out of
that.

-----

Would anyone know the security technology of this unit and its support
system? And how it compares to those of competitors in the US and 
outside?






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@nsm.htp.org
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 13:44:27 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Wristwatch PC
Message-ID: <19980409204339.463.qmail@nsm.htp.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Another article for Decoder-Ring-punks

http://dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/technology/story.html?s=z/reuters/980408/tech/stories/seiko_1.html
www.seiko.com   Cool pictures at www.ruputer.com

Seiko Instruments Says To Sell First Wristwatch PC

TOKYO (Reuters) - Seiko Instruments said today it would begin selling
wristwatch personal computers (PCs) in Japan on June 10.

It said the new product would be the world's first wearable PC.

A company statement said the watch, called the Ruputer, can download
data that includes text and pictures from other personal computers.

The wristwatch PCs will be sold with three software applications that
run on Microsoft Windows 95 operating system, it said.

Watches come equipped with a 16-bit central processing unit and 128
kilobytes of main memory, it said.

Games can be played on the products and they can exchange data with
each other via infrared signals, it said.

The company will launch two Ruputer models with retail prices of
38,000 yen and 48,000 yen, the statement said.

A company spokeswoman said it aimed to sell 100,000 of the watches in
the first year. Seiko Instruments is a group firm of watch wholesaler
Seiko.
-------------------------
Seiko Instruments
                                                                         announced that it would begin selling
                                                                         Ruputer wristwatch personal
                                                                         computers in Japan on June 10th.
                                                                         No announcement was made about
                                                                         North American distribution.

                                                                         Although I have not received the
                                                                         release Ruputer specifications I
                                                                         believe the LCD screen is
                                                                         102 by 62 (#1), an IR port (#2) or cable
                                                                         interface (#3) is available. The tiny
                                                                         Ruputer has 128 k of RAM, 512 k of
                                                                         ROM and up to 2 MB of storage!

                                                                         The Ruputer Web site is in Kanji
                                                                         (Japanese) with a little English with
                                                                         many illustrations, an English site has
                                                                         been requested. 






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: TruthMonger 
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 19:56:49 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Dudley DoRightMonger Driven From Home By Armed Thugs?
Message-ID: <352D8AFE.483E@dev.null>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Poor Dudley seems to have been evicted from his spiritual home at
http://www3.sk.sympatico.ca/carljohn/rcmphate/rcmphate.html .

As a matter of fact, the whole http://www3.sk.sympatico.ca/carljohn
website seems to have mysteriously disappeared into thin air, for
no apparent reason.
Since the nice people at Sympatico have never shown any propensity
for fascist oppression of their users, as far as I know, I fear that
perhaps they have fallen victim to the Dangerous Armed Thugs who
have stolen my computer and my cute little nephew's computer.
(Of course, I don't have any firsthand knowledge that the Armed Thugs
 are truly responsible for theft of my nephew's computer, since 
 whoever the thief was who stole it, like most criminals, failed to
 leave any sign of his/her presence except for the obvious violation
 of my privacy. Thus I am assuming that perhaps the devious, criminal
 ordinary citizens who informed me of the intrusion of the Dangerous
 Armed Thugs into my home were not just lying through their teeth,
 as Judges always rule they do when their testimony and broken bones
 are in conflict with the Official Version Of The Truth (TM) told by
 the Dangerous Armed Thugs.)

I certainly hope that the nice Sympatico people weren't threatened by
the Dangerous Armed Thug who robbed me at gunpoint, on behalf of a
drug-dealing car thief and violent armed robber. I fear that this may
be the case, however, since they have never contacted me to express
any concerns about the webpages where I store works I have authored,
and portions of works in progress.

I suppose that the Dangerous Armed Thugs backed up their veiled threats
of violence with outrageously blatant Lies such as those that poured
forth in huge torrents from the Evil Lying Mouths of the Costumes Offals
at the Regway, SK, meatspace border crossing when they stole my laptop
and other possessions without being able to offer any explaination as
to why they were doing so, other than the unspoken and obvious fact
that they are Dangerous Armed Thugs and I am just a Piece Of Shit
Citizen who is expected to fucking well take whatever they choose to
dish out to me, without resistance.

I suppose that the best thing I can do with Dudley DoRightMonger
is to help him to flee to the Soviet Union, where the Armed Thugs
are less dangerous because they are freelancers, and can be bought
by both the government *and* the citizens. (True Free Enterprise!)
Thank Dog that there are still places like Russia, where free 
speech is still possible, and where the creative juices of the
muse can still flow freely, out of the reach of the Violent
Dangerous Armed Thugs in Canada who stand ready and willing to
oppress and murder anyone who looks or acts differently than
themselves.

I guess if I was a Wagon-Burner, I would already be dead...

TruthMonger





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: TruthMonger 
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 20:03:02 -0700 (PDT)
To: fygrave@freenet.bishkek.su
Subject: Please let Dudley sleep under your roof for a while...
Message-ID: <352D8C1D.5141@dev.null>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


                               The Official

                       Royal Canadian Mounted Police

                                 HATE Page

Kudos of the week go to Constable Dave Voller, who legally murdered a
gun-toting Wagon-Burner and the nine year old future glue-sniffer clinging
to her skirt.

Congrats, Dave. A hundred points for the woman, and five hundred for the
kid...

This is a good time to remind RCMP Officers across Canada that, despite our
long history of exercising a strong hand (and an even stronger nightstick
;?) in keeping the Wagon-Burners from storming the gates of white society,
current social and legal trends make it necessary for us to take every step
necessary to cover our ass when we take those measures needed to keep them
in their proper physical place (the reservation) and to keep them in their
proper attitudinal place even when they remain in their proper physical
place.

Remember that the procedures that we have put in place are for your
protection, and that if you stay within our guidelines, you can pretty much
waste as many Wagon-Burners as you wish, without suffering legal
consequences.

Constable Voller followed proper procedure in charging right into a
volatile situation with no backup, so that there would be no possibility of
conflicting stories from other officers invited to participate in the
adrenaline high involved.
He also had the foresight to waste the bitch with a shotgun, so that a wide
enough target area would be covered to take care of any potential witnesses
whose stories would not be subject to government pressure as to their
content.

Rest assured that if you murder a Wagon-Burner according to proper
procedure, that the members we claim not to be able to spare to supervise a
potentially deadly encounter with Wagon-Burners will suddenly become
available to pore over the murder site and absolve you of any wrongdoing.
A host of spin-doctors will also suddenly appear to remind the head
Wagon-Burners that 'good relations' with the Federal Government are
conditional on 'going along to get along.'

The RCMP Officers of the Wild, Wild West continue to lead the way in
keeping the Wagon-Burners constantly on the run, no matter how far they run
to try to escape.

The Estevan Detachment of the RCMP is living up to their long tradition of
effectively using other arms of law enforcement to effectively harass
Wagon-Burners while using a minimum of Federal resources.

You undoubtedly remember last year's article about the member of the City
of Estevan Police Department who was successful in getting the courts to
uphold his own brand of Frontier Justice for decades, until he made the
mistake of using a 'real' informant, thus making his cases vulnerable to
conflicting testimony as to his questionable activities.
As we reported, the prosecutor was able to railroad a couple of kids who
were represented by incompetent legal aide lawyers, by having the arresting
officer help to mentally muscle them outside the presence of legal counsel,
but the #1 Wagon-Burner on the local yokel's list was not able to be
railroaded at that time.

We reported with pride on the Estevan Detachment of the RCMP helping that
same local officer to once again set up the Wagon-Burner by helping in the
operation while staying out of the main action, so that the Wagon-Burner
and his White-Whore Wife were financially broken to the point where they
had to cop a plea.
Due to the Estevan Detachment's foresight, they didn't "get any on 'em"
when the local yokel finally got his chain yanked on bogus grounds that
protected the City of Estevan from taking any responsibility for his years
of abuse of authority.

To bring you up to date, not only is the Wagon-Burners oldest little
glue-sniffer currently being railroaded on criminal charges, but the
Estevan RCMP are once again setting a fire under the Wagon-Burner's ass by
supporting the Provincial Game Warden's persecution of the Wagon-Burner for
daring to hunt on the land that we stole from him, once again saving
Federal dollars from having to be used to finance their dirty work.

Today's Humor:

"First they came for the Wagon-Burners, but I was not a Wagon-Burner, so I
didn't speak up. Then they came for the Revisionists, but I was not a
Revisionist, so I didn't speak up. Then they came for the Freedom of Speech
Advocates, but I was not a Freedom of Speech Advocate, so I did not speak
up.
"Then they came for the Jews, and I got to put pepper-spray in their
Jesus-Killing eyes..."
~ Constable Hettinga
"I *love* this country!"






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Salvatore A. Ingaro" 
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 18:35:13 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: join
Message-ID: <352D7761.4E44@bellsouth.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


join




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: YAY383 
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 19:42:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: hi
Message-ID: <900b7401.352d7c15@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

 


To: YAY383@aol.com
Subject: hi
From: YAY383 
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 19:57:25 EDT
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Click Here For 10 Free
Pics




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: TruthMonger 
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 22:07:55 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Ignorance of the Law is No Excuse
Message-ID: <352DA9F3.3711@dev.null>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Favorite Courtroom Scene #137:

A debate arises over the 'proper interpretation' of a particular law,
or section of the law.
None of the legal eagles with decades of experience in the study and 
practice of the law can agree, so the Judge orders a break in the 
action, whereupon everyone dives into mountains of information 
contained in both fresh and dusty graven tablets and eventually they
all return to the courtroom to further disagree as to what constitutes
obeying the law, and what constitutes a violation of the law.
  Finally, the judge makes a decision (which may be confirmed or
overturned in the future by other people with even more years of
study and experience in the practice of law) and the defendant
becomes an innocent lamb or a fire-breathing devil, according to
the judgement.

  The beautiful insanity of the preceeding is only fully manifested
when the defendant protests that he hadn't really meant to transgress
against the law of the land, and the Judge, who based her final
decision on a single line of legislation enacted in 1854, and not
noticed nor referenced since the day it was passed, tells the
defendant that "Ignorance of the law is no excuse."

[Note: If you are unaware of whether the law in Moose Jaw,
 Saskatchewan, requiring pedestrians to walk on the 'right'
 side of the sidewalk, was or was not recinded, then your 
 qualify as a member of the 'criminal element,' in potential,
 if not in fact.]





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: RCMP HateMailer 
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:08:45 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Official RCMP HateMailer Launched
Message-ID: <199804100709.BAA29309@harrier.sasknet.sk.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


[Bienfait Nutly News]Dangerous Armed Thugs sitting in parked cars hiding
in the alley behind the CoalDust Saloon, waiting to tax the citizens
under the obscenely low breath-alcohol laws in place, celebrated the
launching of the 'Official RCMP HateMailer' after the sudden and 
mysterious disasppearance of the 'Official RCMP Hate Page' at a
Sympatico website.
The unusually high number of vehicles and officers hanging around the
small Saskatchewan town was attributed to a 24-hour watch on the
former host of the vanished webpage, in the hope of catching him
walking on the left side of the sidewalk and arresting him under
authority of a law which applied only to Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan,
when it was in force, and was recinded years ago.
"We weren't notified of the recinding of the law." one of the waiting
constables stated, smiling like a banshee.

RCMP officers around the country were angered by what they regarded as
trickery and betrayal by a scoundrel who had professed support for
the concept of a website where officers could freely express their
true thoughts, beliefs and feelings, under cover of their webpage
being hosted by a known lunatic and forger, thus providing them with
deniability in the event of great public outcry.
An anonymous constable (whose home phone number is (306)388-2561) told
a local reportwhore, as he had him standing on one foot, singing 'God
Save The Queen' and skinning a live cat, blindfolded, "The average 
citizen expects us to harass the riff-raff, the poor, and the people
we stole the land from, in order to keep them in their proper place,
but the minute we try to give one another postive public support for
our personal and group successes, all we get is a ration of shit."
His partner, going through the blindfolded reportwhore's truck seat
and pocketing the change, added, "You spend years doing the boring
grunt work of oppressing the low-life, and suddenly, you get a chance
to achieve one of the premiere experiences of your professional career.
You get to whack out a WagonBurner.
"But just try *bragging* about it." he continued, shaking his head sadly
about the hypocritical criticism of the citizens who cry out to be
protected from those with less money or social standing than themselves,
and then turn around and cry 'shame' when those hired to do the job
ask for their efforts to be appreciated.

Mounties everywhere were outraged when the website was suddenly 
Yanked out of Canuck CyberSpace by an unknown entity.
Speculation among the RCMP rank and file was that the website host
had wiped out the website pages himself, and then concocted a wild
conspiracy theory involving police abuse of power and the violation
of free speech and the Canadian Charter of Rights.
"That fucking asshole son-of-a-bitch is well known for taking facts
which can be explained quite simply and using them to build some
bizarre, inane story that reflects badly on those in positios of
authority.
"There was no huge, dark conspiracy to seize his computer and files.
The Customs officer at Regway is thinking of buying a laptop, and
he simply confiscated the man's computer so that he could try one
out for a while before making a decision. The RCMP officers who
drove down from Regina to break into his house were just making
sure that the place was secure during his absence. They thought
they should take his nephew's computer in order to find out if
he had any illegally acquired Warez files, so that we could
imprison the child and save him from a life of crime.
"Conspiracy, my ass...it was just two separate instances of
ordinary, everyday abuse of the citizens that he has magnified
into some deep, dark plot in order to feed his paranoid fantasies."

The general consensus among the drunken, licentious crowd 
gathered around the Video Lottery machines in the pub was 
that the man in question was "pretty much toast," since the
Mounties 'always get their man,' as a result of many of them
coming from small farming communities and having a great
deal of experience in 'planting.'
Some of average, small town alcoholics were of the opinion that
the Official RCMP Hate Page was rather self-serving and vastly
overblown, anyway.
"That little glue-sniffer that the Mountie whacked out while
he was clinging to his momma's skirt was pretty skinny...I
doubt that he was worth more than fifty points, max."

As I was leaving, the blindfolded reportwhore threw up on
the shoes of the officer giving him the drunk-test, and
those waiting in line to be humiliated and abused gave him
an average of 9.6 for style, 9.8 for presentation, and a
perfect 10 for artistic merit, since he had eaten an 
all-dressed pizza for dinner.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ballman@thebestemail.com
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 01:28:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: About Golf Balls
Message-ID: <199804100828.BAA02398@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



=====> WE WANT YOU TO KNOW MORE ABOUT GOLF BALLS <=======

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All of us know how tough it is to hit a good shot in windy conditions.
We assume therefore that air is just another natural element we must
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possible for us the hit the ball as far as we do.  The SPIN we impart
on a ball actually gives the ball lift, much like the wing on an
aircraft imparts lift.  This lift makes it possible for the ball to
stay airborne longer, enabling it to travel further.

In a vacuum, the average 250 yard drive would only travel about 180
yards.  A winged aircraft would not fly.

Air is your Friend....::))

Now here's one for you......Does a ball fly farther on a hot dry day
or cold wet day??....How about a hot humid day or a cold dry day ?

Let me know what you think.

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ps..I have worked carefully to see that this educational information goes only to
those who may have an interest. If you do not, please send me back an 
email with remove as the subject.  I will not mail to you again.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: owner-cypherpunks
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 01:40:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Adult CD
Message-ID: <199804100840.BAA09956@cygint.cygnus.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Are you interested in ADULT Cd-ROMs we would like to give you 2 FREE sampels, se more about this                
great offer at :
http://www.vicom.dk/
No obligations at all ! !  - just a nice offer from Denmark.

This is a one time offer - if you are not interested you will not hear from us again.
VICOM






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: RCMP HateMailer 
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 01:45:20 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Sympatico Reaches Compromise With Censored Author
Message-ID: <199804100845.CAA02371@harrier.sasknet.sk.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



[Bienfait Nutly News]SYMPATICO, A CANADIAN INTERNET SERVICE PROVIDER,
reached a compromise with a notoriously unknown Saskatchwan author
whose website had been destroyed after the ISP was threatened with
legal and physical violence by Royal Canuckian Mounted Police.

Sympatico agreed to restore 'half' of the author's 'Semi-Revisionism'
webpage, which espouses the view that the Holocaust, although a true
3D event, was neither fact nor fiction, but merely "overblown."
The half-restored webpage originally had a variety of links to sites
on the InterNet which provided information confirming the author's
theory that a variety of ethnic groups were the targets of genocide
during World War II, and that the real reason behind most of the
Revisionist literature on the InterNet was the result of the Jews
milking their tragedy for more sympathy (and money) than the other 
ethnic groups.

"If the same events took place in today's society," the author
speculates, "then the resulting media frenzy would ensure that all
parties involved would receive a proportionate share of the gigantic
rubber-necker/tragedy market.
"As it is, it happened that the Jews managed to corner the small
genocide-sympathy market that existed at the time, and succeeded in
building a Holocaust Empire that was able to squash all competition
from the survivors of other ethnic massacres."

The Anti-SemiRevisionist Coalition, fighting against the current DOJ
anti-trust actions targeting the Jewish monopoly of the genocide 
market, agreed to make Holocaust promoter Simon Wisenthal and
Zundelsite's revisionist creator, Ingrid Rimland, joint chairmen of
the Coalition. They joined together in arguing that breaking up
the Jewish Holocaust monopoly would destroy the genocide market and
eventually lead to minor ethnic groups who had only experienced
"inconvenience and discomfort" to saturate the market with inferior
horror stories.

"Already, we are seeing examples of people with short numbers tatooed
on their arms, pressing for equal rights legislation." one alleged
Holocaust victim told gathered reporterwhores.
However, when a German reportwhore pointed out that the man had a
Scandanavian nose and name, the man's tattoo, upon closer inspection,
turned out to be three lines of Perl code.
The man was immediately seized by the the host of the Politically
Correct TV show and deported to a Death of the CypherPunks camp
run by Declan McCullagh outside of Bienfait, Saskatchwan.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: credit@credit.credit
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 15:08:08 -0700 (PDT)
To: credit@credit.credit
Subject: Guaranteed Approved Unsecured Visa & MasterCard
Message-ID: <79013114_52790477>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



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ref:mx




To be removed from future mailings please type "REMOVE" in subject line and mail back to us.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Schaerer 
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 03:43:06 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Best IDEA implimentation?
Message-ID: <352DE8FB.56CF@swbell.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


A brief scan of FTP sites will result in several different
implimentations of the IDEA algorithm.  Is there any agreement as to the
'best' (Def: easily compiled, syntax that helps prevent dumb errors,
good documentation, relatively quick on most computers, etc)?

If it varies from computer to computer, what would the best
implimentation be for an Intel Pentium running ms-dos/windows95 using
the djgpp c/c++ compiler?

I greatly appreciate any and all help.

- Jim Schaerer

--- Since this is my first post, I suppose I should introduce myself
(since I know you all are just dying to learn about me :-) ).  I am a
high school student from Tulsa, Oklahoma, who has had an interest in
cryptography for the last year-or-so.  Needless to say, I have
absolutely no training in cryptography or advanced mathematics -
everything I know comes from books or essays on the aforementioned
subjects.  When I'm not on my computer, music (Classical) is my
past-time.  My primary instrument is the euphonium (think small tuba
with a mellow sound), which I plan on playing through college and
beyond.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: RCMP HateMailer 
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 04:37:48 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: $1,000,000 CypherPunk Challenge
Message-ID: <199804101138.FAA04521@harrier.sasknet.sk.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



	THE ESTEVAN DETACHMENT OF THE ROYAL CANADIAN MOUNTED POLICE IS
	PROUD TO ANNOUNCE THE COMMENCEMENT OF THE MILLION DOLLAR
			CYPHERPUNK CHALLENGE!

	Thanks to the generous contributions of RCMP officers such as
	Constable Beauline, who generously offered to kick in a share
	of the money he extorted at gunpoint from the late TruthMonger
	#1, in the CoalDust Saloon, we are able to offer each of you
	a chance at the Grand Prize for aiding us in securing a
	conviction on any major criminal charge against an individual
	who has sullied the reputation of the Royal Canuckian Mounted
	Police by subjecting us to ridicule for the mountains of
	government resources and funds we have pissed away in our
	unsuccessful attempts to imprison him over the years.

	The sorry, scumbag piece of shit who posts to the CypherPunks
	mailing list under a variety of aliases, including, Toto,
	TruthMonger, Blanc Weber and Sameer, is known to be as big
	a pain in the ass to you irreverent, anarchist CypherPunks
	felons as he is to those of us sworn to Serve and Protect
	the rich and powerful from loudmouthed troublemakers who
	feel no shame in stepping outside the boundaries of our
	subservient middle-class society.
	CSIS, an arm of Canadian law enforcement whose manifest 
	is to find and exploit weaknesses of character in our 
	citizens, in order to encourage them down a path which will 
	allow the judicial system to put enough white people in jail
	to keep a semblance of order amoung the Wagon-Burners who
	belong in the white man's prisons by virtue of their
	birthright, has provided the RCMP with illegally 
	intercepted InterNet communications which lead us to
	believe that most of the CypherPunks are, in reality,
	personally resigned to the fact that Big Brother already
	has the game in the bag, and would recognize the benefit
	of helping us to hammer down, once and for all, in two
	quick 'chops', the 9-inch nail that rises like a Penis
	from the Asses every time we attempt to slap it down.

	Others may make you similar offers to make the $$$ Big
	Bucks $$$, but our offer pays monumentally greater amounts
	of cash than sitting at home licking your own dick...

	THE CHALLENGE:
	To support our efforts to encourage Toto down a path that
	will lead to enough mental and emotional pressure to 
	overcome the beneficial effects of his current medication
	and result in his increasing vulnerability to the violent
	manifestations of his medical disability to the point where
	he finally 'snaps,' and strikes out in a blind rage of 
	senseless violence that will finally allow the Canadian
	Justice system to incarcerate him in a place where his
	presence will not be an affront to normal, decent Canadians
	who are willing to believe that Louis Riel acted alone, as
	long as we allow them to continue to debate endlessly on
	CBC radio on how to end the never-ending debates on CBC
	radio, and finally take some action on what are essentially
	inconsequential matters.

	OUR PLEDGE:
	To continue our efforts to pressure Toto through illegal
	violations of his Charter Rights and to provide those who
	choose to participate in our assault on this particular
	citizen by providing information as to known vulnerabilities
	which can be used to exploit his weaknesses.

	YOUR *WINNING* ROLE:
	To support and encourage Toto in manifesting, to the fullest
	extent possible, the moral outrage that comes naturally
	from a lifetime of watching growing authoritarian tyranny in
	all aspects of Canadian society.
	To echo and validate the impulsive outbursts of emotional and
	physical violence which is endemic among those with his type
	of medical disability.

	THE KEYS TO SUCCESS:
	While we continue to harass Toto at every step, seeking to
	criminalize and socially stigmatize him for his values and
	beliefs, you, as a CypherPunk, can encourage him to dwell
	upon the injustices to which he is subjected, in the name of
	normality.
	While we continue to illegally and arrogantly confiscate his
	property, denying him use of the tools he uses to improve
	his knowledge of his medical condition, and to help maintain
	mental and emotional balance through creative expression and
	physical functionality, you, as a CypherPunk, can make a
	point of reminding him that even if we are forced, at some
	point, to cease our illegal harassment of him, that we have
	endless government resources available that enable us to
	continue harassing him as long as we desire.
	While we continue to pressure Toto to submit to our attempts
	to suppress his right to freedom of expression, you, as a
	CypherPunk, can point out to him the debasement and oppression
	that is involved in submitting to our tyranny.

	The key to living life comfortably, as a Sheeple, lies in
	avoiding undue reflection upon the lies and injustices that
	are part of the daily menu of a government and society
	geared toward the worship and furtherance of money and 
	power.
	Defective humans who are incapable of hypnotically ignoring
	the the lies, hypocrisy and injustice around them need to
	be removed from society in order to ensure the efficient
	functioning of the more obedient Sheeple.

	BONUS:
	Any CypherPunk who is able to contribute to our efforts to
	the extent that enough pressure is applied to the weak points
	of Toto's medical condition to result in him completely
	snapping and blindly striking out at random against those
	who have no part in his persecution (as opposed to merely
	striking back at those who are violating his human rights)
	will receive a share of any royalties that may result from
	book and movie script sales.
	When encouraging Toto in viewing it as his right and duty to
	launch a mindless, violent assault on the world at large,
	keep in mind that chainsaw massacres have the potential to
	be big money makers in the news and entertainment media 
	industry, and senseless slaughter of innocent children
	is a proven winner in maximizing audience share.

	Remember: Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, make
	violent revolution a damn profitable business.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: RCMP HateMailer 
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 05:21:46 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: WE'LL PAY CA$H FOR YOUR DEAD INDIANS !!!
Message-ID: <199804101222.GAA05485@harrier.sasknet.sk.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


~
		MAD MOUNTIE INDIAN TRADING POST
		-------------------------------

	Despite the comparative ease with which members of the law
	enforcement community are able to avoid penalties or legal
	punishment for murdering Wagon-Burners under the cover of
	a government-issued assassins badge, there still remains
	a small minority of policemen who are not comfortable with
	the moral implications of taking another human life lightly,
	but who don't want to suffer the stigmatism of not having
	a human trophy mounted on their office wall.

	This translates into $$$ BIG BUCKS $$$ for those who work
	in mortuaries, or who are lucky enough to hit a Wagon-Burner
	with their vehicle in a remote location where they can pop
	the body into the trunk.
	The Mad Mountie Indian Trading Post will pay top dollar for
	Wagon-Burner carcasses without noticeable tread marks, and
	a special bonus to those who bring in a mother and child
	combination suitable for mounting in the currently popular
	"Dave's Double" configuration.

	Carcasses that bear a significant resemblance to famous
	Wagon-Burners such as Louis Riel, Sitting Bull and
	Geronimo will be sold at the monthly Officers Only Auction.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Porn or Art" 
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 07:29:13 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Pornography or Art?
Message-ID: <19980410142840.20296.qmail@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Check out http://members.xoom.com/Porn_or_Art and see what you think of 
the new web page I made.  I'd appreciate your comments on this. Send 
comments to me at Porn_or_Art@hotmail.com

Thanks

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Shostack 
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 05:43:47 -0700 (PDT)
To: jya@pipeline.com (John Young)
Subject: Re: Secure Cell Phones for State
In-Reply-To: <199804100017.UAA08863@camel7.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <199804101242.IAA18334@homeport.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


John Young wrote:
| U.S. State Dept Press Briefing today:
| 
| Briefer: James Rubin
| 
| Now, I have a piece of show-and-tell for you, which I do rarely around
| here.  But I thought this was interesting enough, even for you cynical
| and jaded journalists.  This is a secure cell phone.  Lieutenant General
| Kenneth Minihan, Director of the National Security Agency, presented
| Secretary Albright with a bank of Motorola Cipher-Tac 2000 security
| modules to provide secure cellular communications.

http://www.mot.com/GSS/SSTG/ISD/Secure_Telecom/CipherTAC_2000.html

Its a STU-III, operating at 4.8kbps.  Which means that you lose the
shit sound of a normal cell phone, only to be replaced by the shit
sound of a 4800bit codec.

It is *not* recoverable encryption, because as the NSA and State both
know, there are security risks there.  And we all know that our
country's most valuable secrets are transmitted by people like
Madeline Albright, and thus deserve better protection than can be
offered by recoverable systems.

Adam



-- 
Just be thankful that Microsoft does not manufacture pharmaceuticals.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Stuart Johnson 
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 08:49:55 -0700 (PDT)
To: Greg Bailey 
Subject: RE: possible customer for a Forth box?
Message-ID: <9209B012C2BBD111B6490008C728874C0EFCA6@STEAM>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Greg Bailey [SMTP:greg@minerva.com]
> Sent:	Thursday, April 09, 1998 9:23 PM
> To:	'stuartj@packetengines.com'
> Cc:	'ATHENA Tech'; 'ark-gvb'
> Subject:	RE: possible customer for a Forth box?
> 
> On Thu, 9 Apr 1998 15:12:17 -0700, Stuart Johnson
>  wrote:
> 
> >   i'm currently looking for a box or chipset that will encryption
> > ethernet traffic at or near wire speed. does anyone know of such a
> > thing?  anyhelp will be greatly appreciated.
> 
> We might be able to help, but the above is not a complete problem
> statement.  It could be read as use of Ether for a point to point
> connection between two machines with all traffic encrypted, which
> is a nice and simple key management problem.  Or it might mean
> two or more boxes plugged into an Ethernet with only traffic
> between these pairs of boxes encrypted.  This is a much harder
> key management problem and also is full of special cases such as
> some protocols (ARP for example) that must never be encrypted.
> 
thanks all for the quick replies, for my needs a point to point
connection is fine.

i've looked at a few things out there (netfortress, some bay routers)
but they are all very slow, i'm looking for a wire speed implementation
(100-1000Mb/s) is there anything out there in this arena? or do i have
to make my own .  if i were to embark on building my own is there any
body of work out there that would help me get a jump start? i have the
LAN protocol knowledge but my crypto knowledge is limited to what i've
read in Schneier.

thanks,

-stuart  

ps. i should now be on the lists, but if you could cc replies to me i'd
appreciate it
 ___________________________________________________
 Stuart Johnson			stuartj@packetengines.com
 Asic Design Engineer	Phone : (509) 777-7208
 Packet Engines Inc.		leading the Gigabit Ethernet revolution
 ___________________________________________________
 Key ID				: B65F9B8D
 Key Fingerprint		: F97D84A61C732CBAA1DA50A8D41963
 A NEW BIG PRIME	:  2^3,021,377-1
 ___________________________________________________






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: lei@xaq.com
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 18:11:28 -0700 (PDT)
To: lei@xaq.com
Subject: The Company That Pays Me Need Help
Message-ID: <199804081179XAA13622@post.net.sg>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I Make $1,875 every week!
Stuffing and Mailing Envelopes at Home.
Let me put you in touch with reliable companies who pay up to thousands of dollars when you stuff and mail their sales letters.
I'll tell you which offers are misleading and which companies are honest and pay me so much.
For More Info mailto:dgp2@hotmail.com
Be sure to include your name and address.

9Xc1998




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:52:36 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Is this for REAL?
Message-ID: <199804100738.JAA23626@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-
OFFICIAL RCMP HATEMAILER
-
"Police physicians still slap newborn babies on their
soft little bottoms because they know that this new
little citizen will eventually be guilty of _something_!"
-
This message is NOT from from some namby-pamby, pacifist
citizen who bitches and whines every time that Canada
hosts foreign dictators who know how to keep their
citizens in line (to conserve the firing squad's
bullets).  
It was remailed by *real* men and women who have the
guts to make citizens *pay* for attempting to draw
attention to non-official viewpoints and values by 
assaulting them with potentially deadly toxix
substances.

Send all complaints and requests for blocking to:
.
-





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 06:45:11 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Denning 98
Message-ID: <199804101345.JAA24653@camel14.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Dorothy Denning's Spring 98 course schedule provides an informative
overview and recommended readings:

   Information Warfare: Terrorism, Crime, National Security

   http://guru.cosc.georgetown.edu/~denning/cosc511/spring98/schedule.html

The 1997 course was discussed here last year, along with criticism
of a parallel student web site on criminal use of encryption, as noted
by anonymous on UK Crypto:


http://infinity.nus.sg/cypherpunks/dir.97.07.10-97.07.16/msg00003.html







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Bauer, Michael (C)(STP)" 
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:36:14 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: RE: possible customer for a Forth box?
Message-ID: <9D521B9EB85ED111B7F500A02461F692026E9E@stpmsx02.stp.guidant.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:	Greg Bailey [SMTP:greg@minerva.com]
> > Sent:	Thursday, April 09, 1998 9:23 PM
> > To:	'stuartj@packetengines.com'
> > Cc:	'ATHENA Tech'; 'ark-gvb'
> > Subject:	RE: possible customer for a Forth box?
> > 
> > On Thu, 9 Apr 1998 15:12:17 -0700, Stuart Johnson
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > >   i'm currently looking for a box or chipset that will encryption
> > > ethernet traffic at or near wire speed. does anyone know of such a
> > > thing?  anyhelp will be greatly appreciated.
> > 
> > We might be able to help, but the above is not a complete problem
> > statement.  It could be read as use of Ether for a point to point
> > connection between two machines with all traffic encrypted, which
> > is a nice and simple key management problem.  Or it might mean
> > two or more boxes plugged into an Ethernet with only traffic
> > between these pairs of boxes encrypted.  This is a much harder
> > key management problem and also is full of special cases such as
> > some protocols (ARP for example) that must never be encrypted.
> > 
> thanks all for the quick replies, for my needs a point to point
> connection is fine.
> 
> i've looked at a few things out there (netfortress, some bay routers)
> but they are all very slow, i'm looking for a wire speed
> implementation
> (100-1000Mb/s) is there anything out there in this arena? or do i have
> to make my own .  if i were to embark on building my own is there
> any
> body of work out there that would help me get a jump start? i have the
> LAN protocol knowledge but my crypto knowledge is limited to what i've
> read in Schneier.
> 
Have you checked out RadGuard's cIPRO?  It claims throughput of 100 Mbps
and is IPSec-compliant, although I don't know which specific algorithms
it supports.  

Mick Bauer
Network Engineer, EXi Corp.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Canadian Nutly News
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 14:24:10 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Canadian CypherPunks SuckSeed From the Union!
Message-ID: <199804102124.PAA28116@harrier.sasknet.sk.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


[Canadian Nutly News-Bienfait, Saskatchewan]CANADIAN CYPHERPUNKS LIVING
in countries all around the world have seceded from the countries and
societies surrounding their MeatSpace bodies and have formed Cult of 
One Republics based on freedom, privacy and the Dog-given right to
piss on any source of heat that burns their ass...

Inspired by the Nuclear Suitcase Full Of Dirty Shorts technology that
was developed in a basement in Bienfait, Saskatchewan, by the Grand
Pooh-Bah of Mongeritaville and activated recently at a hidden location
near RCMP headquarters in nearby Estevan, the CypherPunks have been
enlisting in increasing numbers in Army of Dog Private Guard units
consisting solely of themselves.
Bill Stewart, a naturalized Canadian CypherPunk, told reportwhores,
while belching and patting his stomache, "I've got a powerful lot of
gas backed up, and I'm not afraid to use it."

Mercetan Mercantile, a Bienfait business buying bottles of bombmaking
ingredients from a wide variety of chemical companies and hog farms
around the world and reselling them to a specialized children's market,
reports that the children they deal with are getting increasingly older
as adults recognize the advantages of using revolutionary munitions
that will allow them to be tried as children for their crimes.

Members of the CypherPunks Disturbed Male List, famous for thier
childish pissing contests, have long been suspected of using those
pissing contests to distract attention from their development of
secret StinkyEggFart technology and parallel technologies designed
to raise a stink that can't be ignored.
CypherPunk Jim Bell, living in a part of Canada south of Seattle, was
instrumental in helping to promote the use of non-violent BadEgg
technology to escalate the trend of Tyrannical Dictatorships (TM)
toward violating the rights of its citizens to raise a stink and
subjecting them to outrageously cruel and unusual punishment, as well
as long periods of imprisonment for childish behavior.
TruthMongrel, barking over a Sympatico InterNet connection that was
raised from the dead by a Circle of Eunuchs member deep within the
filthy bowels of the Canadian ISP, said, "Jim Bell is just a pawn in 
the game plan of the Forces of Light. Canadian CypherPunks have long 
been aware that he is a schill being run by a handler named Blanc Weber 
who has a hidden agenda of promoting a peaceful revolution."
Attila T. Hun, hacking into TruthMongrel's Sympatico account, broke
into his transmission to add, "Even Toto has been coming under the
spell of Weber's goody-two-shoes virginal allure. He used to be a
*real* man and a serious threat to the continued physical existence
of Micro$not Mongul, Bad BillyC, and now he has turned into just
another WinLoser95 user begging at the feet of his Redmond Puppet
Masters, compromising his integrity by offering to only cut off three
of BadBillyG's fingers in return for help making Micro$not's software
work.
"Next thing you know, he'll be offering just to slap BadBillyC around
like a girl, in return for a free copy of WinLoser98."

Blanc Weber, when reached for comment, dismissed Attila's claims, and
grinningly told reportwhores, "That's ridiculous. Everyone in the
Micro$not Memorial Branch Davidian Compound in Redmond knows that
the MicroMaster likes to be *spanked*, not slapped."
She added, with a wink, "There are rumors that the DOJ anti-trust
action against Micro$not is just a business move by the MicroMaster
to make his million dollar spankings by Janet Reno tax deductible."

Tim C. May, a CypherPukes FartLoserForKing candidate, expressed
disgust with the CypherPunks division into two camps, one advocating
violent revolution and the other promoting biological development
of a mutant strain of vegetable known to insiders as 'The Slime
That Ate The Slime That Ate DC."
"Fuck this shit...I'm going to NUKE something!" he shouted, pausing
to add, "I just picked up a couple of items at the Dirty Shorts
Munitions Show&Tell in Las Vegas which will guarantee that Slick
Willy will never inhale again..."





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous Sender 
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 11:40:10 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: announce: weaken for netscape !!
Message-ID: <7cf39210a30d81fc1426e50faadb3b98@privacy.nb.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Hello.
since it is possible to fortify netscape navigator, it is also possible
to weaken it. i'm releasing this patch to underline the fact that you should
really think about the degree of trust you put in your crypto software or any
modifications done to it by others.
so what's this patch is ?
this is WEAKEN for netscape (should i put a (TM) logo ? )! it makes crypto in ssl useless !!
for people who dont believe me ... here's some tech details :
during handshake, ssl client and server exchange two random 32 bytes
sequences (Client.Random and Server.Random) in cleartext.
when the client receives the server's public key (if the cipherspec uses rsa),
it generates a 48 bytes random structure (this is the premaster secret) and
sends it to the server encrypted with that public key.
so if you can patch the software, how to make this schema useless ? just make
the premaster secret predictible, since the master secret is a function of
it, plus the two random structures which are available in clear to you (attacker)
you may now ask why this is interesting ? after all, if an attacker gains access
to your machine all the security is lost anyway. I released this to say that :
1- it is easy to fortify netscape, but can't verify that it really works (i mean
you cant verify that it offers real 128 security, what is saied in the properties
window in netscape after fortifying it is not a proof of security)
2- weakening netscape is easy ... but u can verify that it works !!
3- this is a very short byte sequence !! imagine what happenes if :
3-1 that sequence is propagated by a virus !
3-2 your boss installs that sequence by night in your computer !!
3-3 some vendors already ship their software with the weaken sequence !!!

enough with args, here is the stuff :

this patch works on communicator pro export for win32,
i downloaded the copy i worked on a few hours ago ... so by downloading the
latest communicator 4.04 export, english from netscape's ftp site you will
be able to weaken your browser ;) ... anyway if you want to be sure about your
version before weakening it, download fortify, and run it's md5 program with
following parameter :
md5 -r 0x400-0x32ca00,0x384a00:0x58400 ...\program\netscape.exe 
there is a line matching the version i'm talking about in the "index" file you
will find with fortify.exe (download the whole fortify from www.fortify.net),
here's a copy from that line :

4096512 0x400-0x32ca00,0x384a00:0x58400 aea2aba6f731468e34fd1141f603ea20 pro  4.04 0 2 morphs-1.2 x86win32 (97325)

netscape's executable size : 4096512 bytes
by running md5 as indicated, you should obtain  this hash 
aea2aba6f731468e34fd1141f603ea20

now this is the patch to apply :
look for byte sequence :
52 88 8d e0 fe ff ff 8a 40 01 6a 00 88 85 e1 fe ff ff e8 9e 27 00 00 83 c4 0c 8b f8
and change with
6a 72 52 88 8d e0 fe ff ff 8a 40 01 88 85 e1 fe ff ff e8 cd 98 94 77 83 c4 0c 33 ff
that's all !!!!

in short, i'm changing a call to GenerateRandom to memset >;-)
72 is the ascii code for 'r' (my favorite char).
if you can play with ssleay, you can change the ssl/ssl_txt.c, ssl/s3_srvr.c
and ssl/ssl.h in order to keep the premaster secret in memory so you can display it
in the output given by s_server -accept  -www
good luck


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous Sender 
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 12:15:07 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: weaken : contact the author
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



here's my pk, just drop me a message in the list
-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
Version: 2.6.3i

mQCNAzUuVR4AAAEEALkjQwGKIsBT16nqJbZsWiPOH6gfRkzFav0RmWgjBu/bjDKe
PmC2aGoQV2FXFYGGnX0bHyBz8Qjewdb7aDg/MQsAXjxsSZvqxNEkXGa6bH4U/Fe8
32WBddLrScc6vikaPv0o3D8bgzr+qQM0s9FSP4n5Jb+N/y2YjJVRLpSyKBl9AAUR
tAVtYXJrb4kAlQMFEDUuVR6VUS6UsigZfQEBI9AD/RM6l/Gmw3+IPNQ1fRSFAME3
ZLoWUC6mAW5kUP0IaOFD/tXGXT+ekehcFojHpk9/QIO1mVpxr3bp97/ETZb1ZJiS
EHTEjAP/85gja/YlRubfihUUb5/MoIz94a+MWsoDB0qLDJbQ48vyNsftNDrolUFf
KUdCME7v3al/m6c0wufP
=Bnx/
-----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
        






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 16:01:55 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Secure Cell Phones for State
Message-ID: <199804102301.TAA07614@camel7.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Motorola's site is informative (thanks for the pointers and comments), 
and perhaps cannot reveal the detail needed to compare security 
level to other systems in the US and other countries. 

Dave Emery probes the tech questions a bit and I'll go further, with 
Adam Shostack and others, to ask as a citizen why we cannot 
purchase the level of cell phone privacy that our gov and mil folks 
can with our money (a return to the NSA-crippled algo of CMEA 
and CAVE).

There has been some discussion of this on UK Crypto about
the various telco security systems in Europe and the same
critique of a double standard has been made. Cell phone
manufacturers would have a big stake in who gets the best
security to the global public first.

Moreover, as Scientific American points out in its special
section this month, applications of wireless technology are 
rapidly growing for a host of new information distribution,
collection and interactive purposes. The need for security
of this data floating through the spectrum could hardly
be greater, not only for privacy but for prtoection against 
tampering, insertion of disinformation, and a variety of new 
ways to warp data to fit schemes the owners and originators 
never dreamed of. 

Is end to end encryption of the STU-III sort going to be 
needed for all wireless or are there other plans in the works
at TLAs and TIAs?

It would be greatly appreciated if those who may be
tongue-tied by NDA and worse, if we were pointed in the
right direction by, say, semaphore, to the likely places
where we can dig out, say, by FOIA, what we need to 
know about Albright-privileged wireless security.

Finally, are the TAC-2000 units useful for the Secretary's
global travels? If so, are they supported by military networks 
overseas? Or do American officials use a different system
when traveling?

Note: We're commencing a log of this discussion of this 
topic from several lists at:

   http://jya.com/tac-2000.htm





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 17:02:27 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: NSA on GAK Risks
Message-ID: <199804110002.UAA01785@camel8.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Federal Computer Week, April 6, 1998:

NSA report details risks of key-recovery technology

The National Security Agency has prepared a report that may 
be the first federal government documentation of the potential 
risks posed by the encryption technology that has been at the 
center of a raging debate between the Clinton administration 
and industry.

The report, "Threat and Vulnerability Model for Key Recovery," 
pointed out that certain law enforcement agents and officials 
operating key-recovery centers could pose the greatest threat 
to a key-recovery system -- and to the users' data, which is 
encrypted by the system -- if proper security mechanisms were 
not in place.

Full article:

   http://jya.com-krisks.htm  (5K)

Any leads on getting a copy of the NSA report would be
appreciated.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 17:07:22 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: NSA on GAK Risks (correction)
Message-ID: <199804110007.UAA26257@camel8.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Correct URL for full FCW article:

   http://jya.com/nsa-krisks.htm  (5K)




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 08:04:01 -0700 (PDT)
To: John Young 
Subject: Re: NSA on GAK Risks
In-Reply-To: <199804110002.UAA01785@camel8.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <199804111503.LAA20078@users.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In <199804110002.UAA01785@camel8.mindspring.com>, on 04/10/98 
   at 08:02 PM, John Young  said:

>Full article:

>   http://jya.com-krisks.htm  (5K)

The URL got munged:

http://www.jya.com/nsa-krisks.htm

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 2.6.3a at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/esecure.html                        
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: I love running Windows! NOT!

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VJqQZ0C6G00=
=pyb0
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: RSIworks@email1.com
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 01:38:43 -0700 (PDT)
To: TLSuccess@yahoo.com
Subject: <>
Message-ID: <199702170025.gaa08056@nowhere.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


"Our research indicates the following material is of interest to you. If you
prefer NOT to be on this mailing list, please let us know, and you will be
promptly removed."

Please accept my apology if this was sent to you in error!

Corporate America - The Great Life...

..or not! 
Stop and think a minute about your current career.  Are you appreciated?
Are you happy with your present situation?  Can you take a month off and 
increase your salary while on vacation? Do you see yourself in the same 
position 5 years from now?  What about 5 years from that?

If you want more out of life than "Corporate America" can provide, please 
read on.  Are you completely satisfied with the financial status of your 
life? Are you able to STOP working and still earn the kind of money you 
want to?  If so, then delete this message! However, if you'd like to learn 
how to achieve the results you're looking for, keep reading!

Have you ever taken the time to do some serious soul-searching?  Have you 
ever thought about your future and what you really want to do with your 
life?  Over the last several months, I have done just that.  And in doing 
so, I've come to the conclusion that I don't want to be in "Corporate 
America" working for someone else who doesn't appreciate my efforts for 
the rest of my life. I want to be rewarded for my efforts and my work. I
want to have the control and be in business for myself! 

Since I couldn't afford to just walk away from my present career until I 
replaced my income, I started researching businesses that would offer me 
the flexibility to start part-time without interfering with my present job.  
After considerable time researching different businesses, I finally chose 
one that impresses me very much.  There's great potential with virtually no 
investment or risk. 

My company has recently been featured in Success Magazine, The Wall Street 
Journal, Investor's Business Daily, has been ranked in NASDAQ's top 100 
companies and was just ranked #106 in Forbes 200 best small companies in 
America. We are currently experiencing rapid growth nationally and 
internationally and our stock has grown more than 1400% since going public 
only four years ago.

I am currently expanding my team and would be interested in working with 
you directly in this extraordinary business.To obtain a brief "no obligation"
summary of this business please call toll free 1-888-834-7542.  You may also
provide your name, address and phone number at the end of the message to 
receive a free cassette outlining this timely business opportunity in more 
detail.

I look forward to working with you and helping you fulfill your dreams of 
freedom!

Enthusiastically,
Tom & Laura
1-888-834-7542

***** This is a one-time only solicitation. Your address will be deleted from our files. Thank you!








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: twointuit@involved.com (gary graves)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 17:40:30 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: make 6 figures working in pajamas!
Message-ID: <000701bd65ab$84d27540$9ca911cf@mic-1>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




OK, I'm all eye's.
graves@pcez.com


From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Schaerer 
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 16:59:17 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Kalifornia Scoffs at Privacy for Minors
Message-ID: <352FF542.22F3@swbell.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


>Eric Cordian wrote:
>> Jim Byrnes writes:
>> > Bwaahaha.  ROTFLOL! No argument over public schools, but families?  Ok,
>> > I'll send my eight year old out to fend for himself.  Its about time
>> > that lazy bum got a job. 
>> 
>> You seem to be under the misperception that since society has entrusted
>> you with the care of a member of a class of individuals having special
>> needs, that such individuals have no civil rights as long as you are
>> giving them something. 
>> 
>> The rights of your biological offspring do not depend in the least on
>> their working to support themselves.  Your legal obligation to provide
>> food, shelter, education, and medical care does not depend in the least
>> upon your getting your own way at their expense 100% of the time, or being
>> allowed to violate their reasonable personal boundaries and limits.

>This legal obligation is another form of slavery, then. Somehow the
>law makes parents slaves to their children.
>
>        - Igor.


... slavery only to yourself - who made the choice to have children in
the first place?  Once you make that choice, you're stuck with it. 
That's not a penalty, just propagation of species: you accept the
responsibility to teach your children what they need to know in order
for them to become functional adults, so they may someday do the same. 
To extend on this 'teaching process', it seems folly to assume that a
child will all-of-a-sudden turn into a thinking, reasonable adult on
their 18th birthday without a certain degree of critical thinking
ability beforehand.

- Jim Schaerer




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: LocaMaria 
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 04:40:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: You've won $50,000
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

 


To: LocaMaria@aol.com
Subject: You've won $50,000
From: LocaMaria 
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 07:31:15 EDT
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Click Here To Get
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: admin2000@postmaster.co.uk
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 20:02:59 -0700 (PDT)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: Registered mail
Message-ID: <199804130302.UAA27016@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSquncr 
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 20:20:45 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Who's the Anti-Christ this time?
Message-ID: <5fb7820f.35318464@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


>The following is from an email which I received from a Christian group in
>Israel this morning. I think it makes for interesting reading ... 
>
>IMPORTANT WARNING ABOUT PRINCE CHARLES
>
>The following is a list of overwhelming evidence which supports the theory
>that Prince Charles is the biblical antichrist. Although at first glance,
>this claim may seem ridiculous, the facts speak for themselves. You owe it
>to yourself and your family to read this entire document before coming to a
>decision. What else can I say - You've been warned !!!!!!!
>
>#1 - HIS NAME
> Revelations 13:18 "Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count
>the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is
>Six hundred threescore and six". According to onomastics (the study of
>names) "charles" literally means "man", in fact the words "charles" and
>"man" are interchangable. So Revelations 13:18 could be interpreted as
>saying "Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of
>the beast: for it is the number of a CHARLES; and his number is Six hundred
>threescore and six." The antichrist is also described in Daniel 9:26 as
>'the prince that shall come'. If Charles is the antichrist then the term
>'prince' can be taken literally.
>
>#2 - HIS NUMBER
>According to hebrew gematria his name adds up to 666 in both English and
>Hebrew (ie., "Charles Prince of Wales" or "nasich charles me wales" - the
>values 1-9 are assigned to the first 9 letters of the alphabet, 10-90 for
>the next 9 letters, and 100-400 for the last four letters, (they only have
>22 characters in the alphabet.) Using this system of math, and applying it
>to the first 22 characters of the English alphabet, (the last 4 letters
>equate to zero), we can calculate names in English just as you can
>calculate names in Hebrew. 
>
>#3a - HIS LINEAGE
>Riddle of the Seven Kings, (the 3rd riddle): In the Book of Revelation,
>Chapter 17, Verses 10-11, it says, "There are seven kings. Five were, one
>is and one is to be. The Beast is the eighth and of the seven." There were
>seven emperors of the Holy Roman Empire named Charles, (check the World
>Book Encyclopedia). Prince Charles' lineage chart shows that he is
>descended, through his father, from the fifth emperor of the Holy Roman
>Empire named Charles, of the House of Hapsburg. Prince Charles is the
>eighth and, (by his lineage), he is also of the seven (SEE HIS LINEAGE
>CHART - http://www.dccsa.com/greatjoy/anti.html).
>
>#3b - HIS LINEAGE
>Since the antichrist will attempt to impersonate the messiah, he will have
>to claim to be a descendant of King David of the house of Judah. It would
>be virtually impossible for any jew alive today to prove that they were
>descended from King David. However, the same cannot be said for Prince
>Charles. In "The Illustrious Lineage of the Royal House Of Britain" (First
>Published in 1902 by The Covenant Publishing Co., Ltd., London, England),
>the authors easily trace his lineage back to David and beyond. The College
>of Heralds (London) has also traced Prince Charles to be the 145th direct
>descendant of King David. This claim was also made in May of last year in a
>documentary on Israeli television. Charles also claims descent from Islam's
>false prophet Mohammed. (SEE HIS LINEAGE CHART -
>http://www.dccsa.com/greatjoy/chart.html).
>
>#4 - HIS COAT OF ARMS / CREST - THE DOG, LION, & UNICORN
>Prince Charles' coat of arms and crest was designed for him by the British
>College of Heraldry, using a system of guidelines over 500 years old. It
>contains ALL the Biblical symbols of the Antichrist. It has a dog supported
>by a roaring lion and a unicorn, (called a wild beast with a straight horn,
>a wild oxen, or 'little horn'). Psalms 22:19-21 describes these animals,
>with a prayer for deliverance...  "Ps 22:19 But be not thou far from me, O
>LORD: O my strength, haste thee to help me.  20 Deliver my soul from the
>sword; my darling from the power of the dog.  21 Save me from the lion's
>mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns. " (SEE HIS
>COAT OF ARMS - http://www.dccsa.com/greatjoy/crest.html).
>
>#4b - HIS COAT OF ARMS / CREST - THE BEAST
>Revelations 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his
>feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and
>the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. The
>composite beast of Revelation 13:2, with the head of a lion, body of a
>leopard and feet of a bear is symbolic for other people--but not for Prince
>Charles. It is on his Coat of Arms. It represents the emperors of the Holy
>Roman Empire. These are the animal symbols for France, the leopard;
>Germany, the Bear; and England, the lion. These nations represented the
>western arm of the Holy Roman Empire. His Coat of Arms contains ten
>heraldic beasts, which is a first for the British Monarchy. All previous
>British Monarchs had either three or six, but none have ever had ten.
>
>#4c - HIS COAT OF ARMS / CREST - THE RED DRAGON
>Revelations 13:2 also says, "And the dragon gave him his power and his
>throne and great authority." The dragon is "symbolic" to others, but not to
>Prince Charles. He has a red dragon on his coat of arms. It comes from the
>flag of Wales, and it is in this title, Prince of Wales, that Charles is
>heir-apparent to the throne of Great Britain. At his coronation
>(investiture as Prince of Wales) in 1969, he sat on a chair with a large
>red dragon emblazoned on it. During the ceremony, his mother Queen
>Elizabeth II said, "This dragon gives you your power, your throne and your
>authority." His response to her was, "I am now your Leige-man, and worthy
>of your earthly worship." Leige is an old English word meaning "Lord". "I
>am now your Lord-man, and worthy of your earthly worship." Another
>reference to the red dragon is in Revelations 12:3 And there appeared
>another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads
>and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. Prince Charles is the ONLY
>person in the world to whom "And the dragon gave him his power and his
>throne and great authority" can literally be applied to!
>
>#4d - HIS COAT OF ARMS / CREST - THE ORDER OF THE GARTER
>Another symbol on Prince Charles' Coat of Arms is that of The Order of the
>Garter. The Order of the Garter is the parent organization over Free
>Masonry, world-wide. When a man becomes a 33rd Degree Mason, he swears
>allegiance to that organization, and thereby to Prince Charles.  According
>to "The 'Morals and Dogma' of the Ancient and Accepted Rite of Freemasonry"
>written by Albert Pike (Grand Commander, Sovereign Pontiff of Universal
>Freemasonry, July 14, 1889) Lucifer is the GOD of Freemasonry (see page 321
>of the 1942 edition). On page 819 you will find just one example of why
>there are many people in Freemasonry who believe that it is natural to be a
>Christian and a Mason. Masonry intentionally misleads the low degree
>initiates and hides the truth that the god of Freemasonry is Lucifer,
>except to those in the 30th and higher degrees. "The Blue Degrees are but
>the outer court or portico of the Temple. Part of the symbols are displayed
>there to the Initiate, but he is intentionally misled by false
>interpretations. It is not intended that he shall understand them; but it
>is intended that he shall imagine he understands them." Further proof of
>Lucifer worshipping amongst Freemason can be seen in how they measure the
>year. For instance the year 1998 (up until september) is according to
>freemasonry the year 5997 A.L. (that is 5997 anno lucifer).
>
>#4e - HIS COAT OF ARMS / CREST - OTHER SIGNS
>The chain on the unicorn is loose, all previous coats of arms show it
>attached (see II Thessalonians 2:6). Inner motto reads "Evil on him who
>thinks evil". Lower motto reads "I serve", "Service is something that you
>give to people, particularly if they want you to - but sometimes if they
>don't"
>
>#5 - THE MARK OF THE BEAST
>Revelation 13:16 "And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor,
>free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their
>foreheads." On March 6th, 1996 on CNN, Prince Charles showed the world that
>he and his two sons William and Harry, had been the first people to be
>voluntarily implanted with a microchip (traceable biochip) in their right
>hands,  alledgedly for security purposes. 
>
>#6a - ONE WORLD RELIGION - THE RELIGION OF THE ANTICHRIST
>On June 26th 1994, Charles announced that when he becomes king he will
>relinquish the monarch's role as head of the Church of England. He said he
>would rather be seen as "defender of faith," rather than "defender of the
>faith." "I happen to believe that the Catholic subjects of the sovereign
>are as important [as the Protestants], not to mention the Islamic, Hindu
>and Zoroastrian," he told the Independent Television network.  There are
>currently at least two biographies available on Charles that describe his
>desire to unite all the world's religions 'in order for peace' (see Daniel
>11:37).
>
>#6b - ONE WORLD RELIGION - CHARLES CONVERTS TO ISLAM?
>Various reports have appeared in London and Arab newspapers over the last
>few years, claiming that Charles has converted to Islam. This supposedly
>took place when he met with the mufti of Cyprus Shaykh Nazim Adil (in
>1993). Now while there's no actual evidence to prove that he has converted
>to Islam, there is no evidence to prove that he hasn't. In fact his lecture
>delivered in February 1994 at Oxford extoling the virtues of Islam, his
>frequent visits to Islamic holy places, his dedication of a South London
>mosque, outfitted in traditional Sunnah attire; and his 1993 trip to see
>the Quran of Sayiddina `Uthman (in Tashkent, Uzbekistan) with Shaykh Hisham
>Kabbani, only lend credence to the claim. Of course, this is just the sort
>of tactic to expect from the antichrist. That is to say, if he were to
>openly come out and say that he had converted to Islam, this would make
>many Jews wary of him. Whereas, if he were to spread rumours that he was a
>muslim and not publicly deny them, then he could get muslims onside whilst
>not alienating Jews.
>
>#7 - JACOB'S PILLAR (THE STONE OF DESTINY)
>On June 2nd 1953, with the knights of the garter carrying and holding the
>canopy over her head, Elizabeth II was anoited and crowned as "Queen of thy
>people Israel". Both Prince Charles and his mother believe that the throne
>upon which the queen was crowned, the famous coronation chair at
>Westminster Abbey in London, is the rightful throne of King David. One of
>the reasons for this is because up until recently it contained a 336 pound
>stone known as Jacob's Pillar (also referred to as Jacob's head-rest, the
>stone of Scone, or the stone of destiny). For more information on the
>signifigance of this stone see Genesis 28:18. Legend has it that Jeremiah
>transported it to Ireland where it was used as a coronation stone. It was
>then brought to Scotland where it was used for a millenium to crown Scotish
>Kings. In 1296, Edward I stole the stone and took it to England, where it
>was placed in Westminster Abbey, and used since 1308 for English
>coronations. On St Andrews Day, 30th November 1996, on Queen Elizabeth's
>orders, the stone was taken back to Scotland and installed in Edinburgh
>Castle. I (as do many people) believe that this stone will be used to crown
>the antichrist (posing as the messiah). (See also Ezekiel 21:27, Genesis
>49:10, Daniel 9:24, and Ezekiel 37:22).
>
>#8 - THE ASSASSINATION OF PRINCESS DIANA
>The Pont de l'Alma tunnel, the site where Princess Diana and Dodi Fayed
>were assassinated has great occultic signifigance. The site is ancient,
>dating back to the time of the Merovingian kings (ca. 500 - 751 A.D.), and
>before. In pre-Christian times, the Pont de l'Alma was an underground
>chamber and used as a pagan sacrificial site. The Founder of the
>Merovingian dynasty was Merovaeus, said to be descended from the union of a
>sea creature and a French queen. Merovaeus followed the pagan cult of
>Diana. In Middle English, "soul" (Alma) has as etymology "descended from
>the sea." "Pont," has as a Latin root "pontifex," meaning a Roman high
>priest. (See also pons, pontis -- bridge; passage.) " One translation of
>Pont de l'Alma would be "bridge of the soul." If Charles is the antichrist,
>then I wonder what Diana would have had to say (had she lived) when he
>declares himself the messiah, and how many people would've taken her
>opinion into consideration before believing his claims!
>
>#9 - THE PRIORY OF SION & THE MEROVINGIANS
>Many blasphemous European royalty including Prince Charles and Queen
>Elizabeth II claim to be of the Blood line of Jesus Christ and Mary
>Magdalene. According to the lie, Jesus didn't die on the cross and rise
>from the dead. Instead they claim he married Mary Magdalene and fathered a
>number of children. This bloodline is referred to as the "Holy Grail", with
>those possessing it believing themselves the rightful heirs to the throne
>of Jerusalem. They believe that a new king of "the holy seed of David" will
>preside over the "Masonic kingdom" of Israel and the world. Prince Charles'
>link to the non-existant bloodline of Christ is through the Merovingian
>Kings of France. He is alledgedly descended from the Merovingian
>Hildegarde. Princess Diana's Bloodline can also be traced back to the
>Merovingians. This is why Prince Philip selected her.
>
>If the above examples aren't enough to convince you then here are a few
>more facts to take into consideration ...
>
>- Prince Charles is heir to the highest ranking office on earth to be
>attained solely by birthright.
>
>- Israel became a state in 1948. Prince Charles was born in 1948.
>
>- In 1992 (just before the full unification in 1993) Charles applied to the
>EU (European Union) to be made King of Europe. He was turned down by the
>European parliment, but has since developed enormous support among European
>royalty and the moneyed elite.
>
>- Prince Charles' own business forum website is at http://www.oneworld.org.
>His World Business Forum comprises 200 of the world's top corporate leaders
>and consolidates 26% of the world's wealth. Charles is literally able to
>steer the environmental ethics & business agendas of the world's most
>powerful multinational companies.
>
>- The holdings of the House of Windsor constitute enormous wealth including
>the Archer-Daniels-Midland company (they are stockholders with controlling
>interest) which controls 75% of the world's grain. In times of famine, the
>royal family will literally be able to control who eats and who starves.
>
>- Prince Charles considers himself to be psychic and believes in guidance
>from the spirit realm. The Queen (also involved in spiritism) and Prince
>Philip both believe that Charles, "is the Chosen One - placed  in line for
>the throne through a divine, preordained plan." 
>
>- In 1977, Charles went to Ghana, Africa where he claimed to have had a
>mystical experience. The news reports quoted him as saying that it was
>like, "St. Paul's conversion on the road to Damascus."
>
>- One of Prince Charles' key men is the Canadian Maurice Strong. Strong is
>a top Illuminati operative and head of many world organizations. He has
>been under secretary of the U.N. for many years. He headed up the Rio
>Summit, World Conservation Bank, World Economic Forum, U.N. Commission on
>Global governance. He is also chairman of the Earth Council and the World
>Resources Institute and has been a top player in Planetary Citizens, the
>World Future Society, Aspen Institute, Business Council for Sustainable
>Development, Lindisfarne Association, World Federation of United Nations
>Associations, the Club of Rome, and about 30 other major organizations - to
>name but a few of his powerful  connections.
>
>- To give you some idea of Charles' influence: He is behind three of the
>most important documents of this decade, the U.N.'s Global Security
>Programme (he personally initiated the United Nations Global Security
>Program), the 7 Year Oslo Accord, and the Rio Summit's `Agenda 21'. Up
>until recently he headed the United World Colleges, he is credited with
>instigating alternative medicine, and with the success of the 1992 Earth
>Summit in Rio De Janeiro.
>
>- According to an article which appeared in the London Times on July 15th,
>1998, titled "The Charles And Tony Show" many Britons are becoming
>concerned about Prince Charles' meddling in the daily political affairs of
>the Tony Blair government. To quote the article "Charles' involvement is
>causing considerable controversy in certain British quarters, who claim
>that he is over-stepping the bounds, of publicly allowable behavior, by a
>member of the Royal Family, in daily political events.
>
>- In the early 1990's representatives of Israel and the Palestinians were
>invited to a secret meeting in London, during which it was decided to try
>secret negotiations in Oslo, Norway. The Israelis were represented by
>Yitzchak Rabin, and the Palestinians were represented by King Hussein of
>Jordan (both 33rd degree masons). The third party at that meeting was Lord
>Victor Mischcon (also a 33rd degree mason), and personal attorney for
>Prince Charles. 
>
>- Prince Charles attended the funeral of Yitzchak Rabin. Within two hours
>after the funeral, according to the Jerusalem Post, Prince Charles was in
>Prime Minister Shimon Peres' office "insisting" that he attend a meeting at
>the Orient House, (in the Palestinian sector of Jerusalem), to begin
>negotiations to give back the Golan Heights to Syria. (IMPORTANT: SEE
>http://www.dccsa.com/greatjoy/coincidences.html).
>
>- An article appeared in the Sunday Mirror on August 31 1997 (only hours
>before Princess Diana was assassinated). It was titled "Queen To Strip
>Harrods of Its Royal Quest" (by Andrew Golden). To quote the article
>"Prince Philip, in particular, has made no secret as to how he feels about
>his daughter-in-law's latest man, referring to Dodi as an `oily
>bed-hopper." "He's been banging on about his contempt for Dodi and how he
>is undesirable as a future stepfather to William and Harry. Diana has been
>told in no uncertain terms about the consequences should she continue the
>relationship with the Fayed boy. Options must include possible exile,
>although that would be very difficult as when all is said and done, she is
>the mother of the future King of England."
>
>- According to Prince Charles "I am sure that many people consider that the
>United Kingdom is in an ideal geographical and historical position to act
>as an interpreter and mediator between the United States and Europe."
>
>- In 1991, as his son William was undergoing emergency surgery for a
>near-fatal head wound, "Prince charles left the hospital to go to Covent
>Garden Opera House, where he was to host a party of European Community
>officials.
>
>- To truly understand Charles, it is important to understand his father,
>Prince Philip. Philip is a eugenicist who wants reduce the population of
>this planet from a current level of about 5.3 billions persons, to much
>less than 1 billion within the next two generations. To quote Prince Philip
>- "In the event that I am reincarnated, I would like to return as a deadly
>virus, in order to contribute something to solve overpopulation." And
>Philip is off to a flying start. He is the head of the World Wildlife Fund
>(Worldwide Fund for Nature) an organisation whose policies are not only
>responsible for the extinction of many species of animals but also for the
>deaths of literally millions of sub-saharan Africans. Although Philip
>pretends to be a champion on endangered species, in January 1961, a few
>months before he would launch of the World Wildlife Fund (WWF) Prince
>Philip went on a royal tour of India where he not only shot and killed an
>Indian tiger (check news achives for the photo) but also an exceedingly
>rare Indian rhinoceros. Only 250 were then left in the world, but that
>didn't stop Philip from shooting it. The dead rhino's terrified calf
>managed to escape but probably died later as it was so young. In a May
>18th, 1990 address to the National Press Club in Washington, D.C., Prince
>Philip asserted: ``it is now apparent that the ecological pragmatism of the
>so-called pagan religions, such as that of the American Indians, the
>Polynesians, and the Australian Aborigines, was a great deal more realistic
>in terms of conservation ethics than the more intellectual monotheistic
>philosophies of the revealed religions.'' (Like father, like son!)
>
>- Prince Charles may seem like a wimp, however he is quite athletic, an
>expert horseman, a qualified jet fighter pilot in the Royal Air Force, a
>qualified helicopter pilot in the Royal Navy, and a senior military officer
>in all three branches of armed services.
>
>- Some of the rumours to have dogged Charles over the years include
>homosexuality, adultery, occultic practices and spiritualist worship.
>
>- No one else on Earth has the religious, political, financial, historic,
>and other ties that Charles has!
>
>- Prince Charle's media exposure has exceeded that of any other man in
>history!
>
>- Only the true antichrist can fulfill every biblical prophecy (WITHOUT
>EXCEPTION) related to the antichrist. Daniel 9:26-27 clearly states that
>the antichrist must be a prominent ruler, (presumably a prince of Roman
>lineage)!
>
>- If Charles is the antichrist then he should receive a fatal head wound,
>sometime in the near future. A fatal head wound from which he will
>miraculously recover!
>
>There are many more so called coincidences, but don't take my word for it,
>read your bible, goto your library, lookup old newspapers, and keep an eye
>on the so-called Royal family. Still not convinced, then read
>2Thessalonians 2:9-2:12 ...
>
>Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and
>signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in
>them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that
>they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong
>delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who
>believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
>
>You've been warned !!!!!!!




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody 
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 23:58:57 -0700 (PDT)
To: kooneoks@rsl.park.tartu.ee
Subject: Forget Direct Mail... Electronic Marketing is the Way of the Future !!!
Message-ID: <62435.3875.19476.463.581@rsl.park.tartu.ee>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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** The email addresses are shipped after payment confirmation is received.

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: s p a c e b o y 
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 03:59:04 -0700 (PDT)
To: StanSquncr 
Subject: Re: Who's the Anti-Christ this time?
In-Reply-To: <5fb7820f.35318464@aol.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Sun, 12 Apr 1998, StanSquncr wrote: 

> The following is from an email which I received from a Christian group
> in Israel this morning. I think it makes for interesting reading ... 

I agree, completely ridiculous, but interesting nonetheless. The following
comments aren't directed at Stan, just statements on the body of the
forwarded email.

> IMPORTANT WARNING ABOUT PRINCE CHARLES 
>
> The following is a list of overwhelming evidence which supports the
> theory that Prince Charles is the biblical antichrist. Although at first
> glance, this claim may seem ridiculous, the facts speak for themselves. 

Yes, ridiculous at first glance, and second glance, and so on. What is
even more ridiculous is that these groups refer to these numerological
coincidences as "mathematical proofs" of the identity of an "antichrist".

Numerology only works if one sets up a favorable framework. Into this
framework one can place a theory or idea to be given significance,
something to be proven or believed. 

I concede that this antichrist framework is only somewhat interesting in
that it uses 'gematria' and the ancient Hebrew numeral system to "prove"
its case. Gematria is a strange sort of number magic which arose from the
fact that the numeral system was made up of the letters of the alphabet.
Early civilizations quickly realized the dangers this close relationship
of math and language could cause, and evidently is still causing to this
day. :) I'm sure the unfortunate ancient citizen whose name added to 666
would agree.

Mathematics would have moved forward much more quickly had early
mathematicians not been faced with this mixture of numbers and language.

Pat Hensley
Engineer, Mindspring Enterprises










From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 21:43:17 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: S/MIME Freeware Library (SFL)
Message-ID: <199804130443.GAA08821@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



All,

The S/MIME Freeware Library (SFL) is a reference implementation of the IETF
S/MIME v3 CMS and ESS I-Ds. All source code for the SFL will be provided at
no cost and with no limitations regarding its use and distribution.
Organizations will be able to use the SFL without paying any royalties or
licensing fees.  J.G. Van Dyke and Associates, Inc, (VDA) is developing the
SFL under contract to the US Government. 

Draft versions of the SFL Fact Sheet, Software Design Description (SDD) and
Application Programming Interface (API) documents (including SFL header
files) are now available.  The Internet Mail Consortium (IMC) has
established an SFL web page at http://www.imc.org/imc-sfl/ which includes
links to the SFL documents stored on the VDA web site
(http://www.jgvandyke.com/services/infosec/sfl.html).  The IMC has also
established an SFL mail list which will be used to: distribute information
regarding SFL releases; discuss SFL-related issues; and provide a means for
SFL users to provide feedback, comments, bug reports, etc.  Please note that
all SFL-related discussion should occur on the imc-sfl mail list and not the
ietf-smime mail list.  Subscription information for the imc-sfl mailing list
is at the IMC Web site listed above.

An incomplete, "interim release" of the SFL software will be available by 31
Mar 98.  Further releases will be provided as significant capabilities are
added.  The target for completion of the SFL is June 1998. The stability of
the S/MIME v3 set of specifications is a prerequisite for meeting this
delivery goal.
  
The SFL is composed of a high-level library that performs generic CMS and
ESS processing independent of the crypto algorithms used to protect a
specific object.  The SFL high-level library makes calls to an
algorithm-independent Crypto Token Interface API.  The underlying, external
crypto token libraries will not be distributed as part of the SFL source
code.  The application developer will independently obtain these libraries
and then link them with the SFL.  This strategy will allow the SFL source
code to be freely distributed to the entire Internet community because it
does not contain software that directly implements any crypto algorithms
that are copyrighted or export controlled. 

IMC plans to add Web links pointing to freeware and commercial crypto
libraries that are compatible with SFL as they become available.


        





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: merchant20@apmail.com
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 11:44:45 -0700 (PDT)
To: merchant20@apmail.com
Subject: AD: Accept Credit Cards - NO LEASE!
Message-ID: <199804122329.IAA19798@n21srv1.nava21.co.jp>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 09:02:50 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: NSA GAK Report Coming
Message-ID: <199804131602.MAA08622@camel7.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Heather Harreld of Federal Computer Week writes that the full
NSA critique of key recovery will be on its Web site soon,
probably tomorrow:

   http://www.fcw.com

In the meantime, FCW has put online Ms. Harreld's article
on the NSA report:

   http://www.fcw.com/pubs/fcw/1998/0406/fcw-polnsa-4-6-1998.html




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 09:30:11 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: NSA Elint Memoir
Message-ID: <199804131630.MAA15173@camel7.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


One of the earliest reports on NSA's global electronic 
interception program appeared in Ramparts magazine
in 1972, which published a lengthy interview with a
young former NSA analyst, "U.S. Electronic Espionage:
A Memoir":

   http://jya.com/nsa-elint.htm  (84K)

James Bamford, Duncan Campbell, Nicky Hager and others 
have since confirmed what the analyst revealed then and 
greatly extended what was at the time doubted as a young 
man's anti-war exaggeration. 

NSA, according to Bamford, decided to not prosecute in the 
hope that no one would believe such astonishing claims of 
electronic violation of friends and foes. See The Puzzle Palace,
p. 334 (paper editon).

Bamford says Perry Fellwock was the name of the anonymous 
analyst, first called Winslow Peck, a pseudonym. Would anyone
happen to know where Fellwock is these days? That's on the
assumption that Fellwock is not a deeper pseudo than Peck.

What knocked me over was Fellwock saying that the location of 
the NSA training school was at Goodfellow Air Force Base, 
San Angelo, Texas, from whence this counterspy originates. 
We were told the base was mothballed, kept pickled only for
local pork. 

No doubt, NSA was never there, and "Fellwock" was just 
continuing to do his disinfo job via Ramparts.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 13:29:36 -0700 (PDT)
To: John Young 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980413132949.007c3100@otc.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 02:30 PM 4/13/98 -0400, John Young wrote:
>>Congrats to Lucky, and Ian, and Dave.

JY is referring to: 

http://dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/technology/wired/story.html?s=z/reuters
/980413/wired/stories/security_4.html


Monday April 13 3:11 PM EDT 

Experts crack digital cell-phone security system

By Annaliza Savage 

SAN FRANCISCO (Wired) - A group of California-based computer experts claims
to have cracked the cryptographic security
behind the world's most popular digital cell-phone system, making it
possible to clone any phone using the GSM standard. 

The Smartcard Developer Association (http://www.scard.org) says it found
the algorithm used as the basis for the Group Special
Mobile (GSM) -- a digital cellular phone system that is used in about 80
million cell phones, primarily in Europe and Asia. Many
U.S. networks are starting to implement GSM standards, too, and this attack
was launched against a card issued by Pacific Bell. If
the group's claims are true, it could lead to a recall or reissue of the
smart cards used in GSM-based phones. 

"GSM is likely to face fraud problems of the same magnitude as analog
systems have had," said Marc Briceno, a member of the
SDA who said that analog systems have lost billions of dollars because of
cellular phone cloning. 

GSM-based cell phones work with a small card containing an electronic chip
called a Subscriber Identity Module card. The SIM
card inserts into the back of the cellular phone and contains information
that is used to identify subscribers and their account
information to the GSM network. The SIM card must be inserted into a GSM
Mobile handset to obtain access to the network,
and one of the primary benefits of the technology is that cell phones have
access to GSM networks worldwide. 

However, to clone a SIM card, a would-be cracker would have to have
physical possession of one. Unlike the cloning used in
analog systems, the crack does not yet include being able to listen in on
phone calls or obtain a SIM ID via the airwaves, although
the SDA has stated that an "over-the-air attack should not be ruled out." 

The SIM uses encryption to keep the identity of the phone secret, and the
encryption algorithm used on most of the GSM network
is called COMP128. The SDA was able to obtain the secret ciphers used by
the GSM network. After verifying authenticity, the
group turned them over to U.C. Berkeley researchers David Wagner and Ian
Goldberg, who were able to crack the COMP128
algorithm within a day. 

In 1995, Wagner and Goldberg succeeded in another high-profile hack when
they compromised the crypto code used in
Netscape's Navigator browser, which was supposed to secure credit-card
transactions. 

"Within hours they discovered a fatal flaw," said Briceno. "The attack that
we have done is based on sending a large number of
challenges to the authorization module in the phone. The key can be deduced
and recovered in about 10 hours." 

A group of hackers gathered with security and crypto experts Friday evening
at a San Francisco hacker club called New Hack
City, for a demonstration of the hack, but it never came off. Eric Hughes,
a member of the SDA and founder of the Cypherpunks
cryptography group, discussed the technical aspects of the hack, but had to
give up the planned demonstration after threats of legal
action from Pac Bell and other telephone company executives. 

It is illegal in the United States to possess cellular phone cloning
equipment, although legitimate businesses are exempted. The
telephone companies dispute SDA's claims to legitimacy. 

Wagner blames the ease of the crack on the secrecy with which the ciphers
were kept. 

"There is no way that we would have been able to break the cryptography so
quickly if the design had been subjected to public
scrutiny," said Wagner. 

The GSM standard was developed and designed by the European
Telecommunications Standard Institute, an organization that has
about 500 members from 33 countries, representing administrations, network
operators, manufacturers, service providers, and
users. 

"There's going to be an orgy of finger pointing," said Hughes, referring to
all the engineers and other people associated with the
design of the GSM network. 

The SDA say that they were able to crack the GSM network algorithm due to
weak encryption in the original design. When the
system was being designed, several European government agencies were
successful in their demands to weaken encryption
standards for government surveillance purposes. 

The SDA also claimed that the GSM security cipher that keeps eavesdroppers
from listening to a conversation called A5 was also
made deliberately weaker. The A5 cipher uses a 64-bit key, but only 54 of
the bits are actually in use -- 10 of the bits have been
replaced with zeroes. The SDA's Briceno blames government interference. 

"The only party who has an interest in weakening voice privacy is the
National Security Agency," he said. 

The SDA said that a proper demo will be taking place soon from somewhere
outside the United States. The group has also
released the source code for COMP128 and A5 for further testing
(Reuters/Wired) 


------------------------------------------------------------
      David Honig                   Orbit Technology
     honig@otc.net                  Intaanetto Jigyoubu

	Why is the CIA so full of spies? 











	















From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous Sender 
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 10:00:16 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: announce: WEAK S/MIME support for netscape messenger
Message-ID: <353f9d0a00d2344766053a58fd7fff38@privacy.nb.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Hello all,
here's a new weaken patch, this time for netscape's mail client with S/MIME support.
when you send an encrypted email, it is first encrypted with a secret key. the secret
key is then encrypted with the recipient's public key.
this patch will modify netscape's mail client so that whenever it generates a
new key, it generates an all 0x72s key.
i hope i'll find time to release an S/MIME encrypted message parser... so that
anyone can verify the info.

the magic sequence :
look for :
51 6a 00 e8 86 27 00 00 83 c4 0c 8b f8
and change with
6a 72 51 e8 b5 98 94 77 83 c4 0c 33 ff
by just changing 9 bytes, you can read all the encrypted emails ! 
like the previous sequence, this substitues a call to GenerateRandom to a memset
of course it may be possible to do something more clever, like hashing a 16 bits
random key to produce a 128 bit one ! my ex-boss is already doing that.

here's how to know if the weaken sequence works on your browser:
use the md5 in fortify distrib
md5 -r 0x400-0x32ca00,0x384a00:0x58400 ...\program\netscape.exe
that should produce
aea2aba6f731468e34fd1141f603ea20

the md5 for the whole program (netscape.exe) is :
294dfe9a5e941d12b04e10adafb0c769



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3i
Charset: cp850

iQCVAwUBNTKmWpVRLpSyKBl9AQGVAgP+Opot5VnJOouhwcS58JIdur1Q+xd2twWR
/1q0SlpfsaTi99YIgFBrDpoVhqrW+wQWJmFmGppR5wZtyMNbSm3GPaRm0m9wAOiK
vXsxS9VapEgjVh50caeTEh7e6GEwNBhNEENKbt1WvGWTrnh7K8dqiC3Pla7kmG3Q
syimJN1toCs=
=GIYU
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
Version: 2.6.3i

mQCNAzUuVR4AAAEEALkjQwGKIsBT16nqJbZsWiPOH6gfRkzFav0RmWgjBu/bjDKe
PmC2aGoQV2FXFYGGnX0bHyBz8Qjewdb7aDg/MQsAXjxsSZvqxNEkXGa6bH4U/Fe8
32WBddLrScc6vikaPv0o3D8bgzr+qQM0s9FSP4n5Jb+N/y2YjJVRLpSyKBl9AAUR
tAVtYXJrb4kAlQMFEDUuVR6VUS6UsigZfQEBI9AD/RM6l/Gmw3+IPNQ1fRSFAME3
ZLoWUC6mAW5kUP0IaOFD/tXGXT+ekehcFojHpk9/QIO1mVpxr3bp97/ETZb1ZJiS
EHTEjAP/85gja/YlRubfihUUb5/MoIz94a+MWsoDB0qLDJbQ48vyNsftNDrolUFf
KUdCME7v3al/m6c0wufP
=Bnx/
-----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
        






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: yarnellsnewmlm@bigfoot.com
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 14:22:49 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Yarnell does it again...
Message-ID: <199804132122.OAA04994@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hi 


	*    MARK YARNELL    *
	*    Pre-Launches    *
	*  his next BIG deal *



		21st Century Global Network, LLC
		**************************************

*	Mark Yarnell former NuSkin distributor
*	Upline magazine named Mark "The Greatest Networker in the World"
*	Inducted into the "Hall of Fame" last year.
*     	Earned hundreds of millions of  $$$  over the last few years.


		JOINS with


American Technology Group Inc, (ATG) with their patented proprietary 
IE(tm) Crystal technology once used in laundry cleaning products.

The IE(tm) Crystals will be used in a various range of personal &
home care products. 23 personal & home care products to start.

		and 

Integral Health Inc, a company comprised of 50 medical doctors
and health care specialists.

		to create

	the next $10 billion company.

Top Earners have already been on the first conference call, 
don't miss the next one. 

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*   	Please send your Phone & Fax number for Marks  
*	2 page Press Release and Conference Call schedule.

For More Information; 
mailto:yarnellsnewmlm@technologist.com?subject=Mark_Yarnell
 

----------------------------------------------------------------
To be REMOVED mailto:yarnellsnewmlm@iname.com?subject=REMOVE













From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 11:30:34 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: GSM cellphones cloned
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199804131830.OAA22672@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


>Congrats to Lucky, and Ian, and Dave.

Yes, indeed, for a smart hack and PR, and to John Gilmore 
for smiling out of today's NYT report on the free software 
conference last week.








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: The Arthur 
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 14:04:30 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Pretty Lousy Privacy PasSword--'cyherpunks' / Norman encryption
Message-ID: <35327D9A.1AD3@dev.null>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE-----
Version: PGP for Business Security 5.5
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=cJc9
-----END PGP MESSAGE-----





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "C.J. Parker" 
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 15:00:30 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Please Help!
Message-ID: <35328BA0.4975@sk.sympatico.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Poor little C.J. Parker will go to bed 'legal' tonight, unless some
kind soul has spare Canadian WebSpace that they can bum him, in order
to violate portions of the Canada Criminal Code by indulging in a
pathetic, whining diatribe of self-hate and victimization.

Surely there is some kind multiple-felon who is willing to give up a
small portion of their own future court time in order to help a less
fortunate individual with only a meager supply of pending criminal
charges to sleep soundly tonight, knowing that he will not have to
face the pain and humiliation that comes from being a decent, law-
abiding Canadian CypherPunk.



THE OFFICIAL C.J. PARKER HATE PAGE
------------------------------------------------
"His bad self-image and low self-esteem, and the knowledge that he had
 come by them honestly..."
~Excert from 'Space Aliens Hide My Drugs'

  KUDOS OF THE WEEK go to Revenue Canada Customs and Excise
Thug, Bill Mitschill, who legally stole the tools of freedom used by 
C.J. Parker to Author chapters of a manuscript designed to kick down
the doors of perception and lead to the violent overthrow of Perceived
MeatSpace Reality (TM).
  Parker, unknown as the Author of socially deviant UCE/SPAMs such
as "How To Make BIG $$$ Sitting At Home, Licking Your Own Dick!,"
was given a stiff dose of reality by Offal Sir MitSchill and his 
partner, who put on a blatant show of government disregard for the 
Legal and Charter Rights of its PawnIzens by not even bothering to tell 
Good Lies (TM) while widening Parker's asshole in preparation for the
beginning of the RCMP Special Greco-Olympic Games.

Congrats, Bill. A hundred points for stealing Parker's computer, and
five hundred points for gathering photocopied evidence linking Parker
to the biological warfare terrorists who rebelled against the King's
Revenue agents by dumping terroroist tea into Boston Harbor, and 
then assaulted and murdered members of the King's LEAs during the
lawful performance of their duties, while following proper Royalist
procedure.

This is a good time to remind Parker Haters (TM) across North America
that, despite our long history of applying strong negative labels to 
him for deviating from the Norm (TM) (and even stronger electroshocks 
to his brain), that current social and legal trends give us plenty of 
leeway to ignore his Legal and Charter Rights when sticking a cold, 
hard one up his butt to hammer him into line with the other NailIzens.

  The RCMP officers of the Wild, Wild Nor'West continue to lead the
way in keeping social deviants constantly on the run, no matter how far
from MeatSpace they run to try to escape.

  You will undoubtedly remember last year's article about members of
the Yorkton RCMP who planted drugs in a sting operation designed to
set a transient felon visiting C.J. Parker, and then decided that 
Parker's unconventional lifestyle made him a perfect dupe for 
prosecution, when it turned out that duuhhh Mountie's ignorance of the 
laws they are paid to enforce precluded prosecuting the original target 
of their illegal sting operation.
  Well, Parker Haters (TM) can rest assured that C.J. Parker (aka - 
Toto, TruthMonger #0, #1, #709) is currently having his ass kicked back,
from his mind's hiding space deep within the bowels of InterNet Free
Terra, to the boundaries of MeatSpace, within which his imprisoned
ass and mind can only gaze wistfully at those still living freely on 
the far side of the ElectroMagnetic Curtain which was slammed down 
around his Illegal Mind (TM) by the confiscation of his computer and 
the Digital Murder of his Sympatico WebSite.

  The Regina (can I *say* that on the InterNet?) RCMP are to be
applauded for their arrogant, oppressive reminder to Parker that their
willingness to lie on the witness stand, threated defense witnesses and
run them out of town, as well as pile mountains of bogus charges on
his head, mean that Parker's sorry ass is grass, unless he defers to the
wishes of the Mounties defending the home of the AssMan, and sits
his mind down in society's chair, straightens up his mind, and quits
mentally fidgetting.

Today's Humor:
"First He came for Adam and Eve, but there were not yet any other
humans on the earth, so there was nobody to speak up.
"Then They came for Jane and Joe Sheeple, but they were too busy
focusing on the meager piles of hay used to lure them into the feeding
pen to notice the SlaughterHaus next door, so nobody bleated.
"Then They came for the TruthMongers, and I was a TruthMonger,
so I began eating an *enormous* amount of beans..."
~Constable TruthMonger (BigLoser Inside)

(c) 1998, C.J. PARKER ("Hating myself since 1949")





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: owner-wow-com-news-update@nmpinc.com
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 04:45:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: WOW-COM News Update
Message-ID: <199804132259.RAA16204@Indy1.newmedium.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



====================================================
This update is sponsored by Hughes Network Systems

http://www.hns.com
====================================================
CTIA's WOW-COM named a "TOP WEB SITE" by Mobile 
Computing & Communications Magazine (2/98)

Dear WOW-COM Reader:
WOW-COM(TM) is the wireless industry's online information source, 
a FREE service of CTIA.  The world of wireless is in constant motion.
Stay on top of industry news and benefit from CTIA's analysis by
reading http://www.wow-com.com everyday.
     
If you wish to remove yourself from this mailing list, please
send an email to  with the following
command in the body of your email message:

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If you wish to get in contact with the owner of the list, (i.e.,
if you have difficulty unsubscribing, or have questions about
the list itself) please send email to 
.
Thank you.

INDEX:
======
1) 	FLAW FOUND IN DIGITAL WIRELESS PHONE SYSTEM
2)		FROST & SULLIVAN STUDY -- LOCAL VOICE SERVICES 
		THROWN OPEN BY TELECOM ACT OF 1996
3)		WINSTAR LAUNCHES FIXED WIRELESS MULTIPOINT 
		METROPOLITAN AREA NETWORK IN WASHINGTON, 
		D.C.
4)		LOOKING FOR A JOB IN THE WIRELESS INDUSTRY?
    
*******WIRELESS JOB OPPORTUNITY OF THE WEEK*******

http://www.wow-com.com/wworkplace/
Company: Hughes Network Systems
Job Title: 	Senior Digital Design Engineer - Hardware
Location:  	Germantown, MD - US
Job Description:   Lead digital design engineer for satellite
baseband communications hardware.  Position requires experience 
in design of digital communications subsystems such as 
modulators, demodulators, digital filters, NCOs and FEC 
encoders/decoders.   Requires BSEE (MSEE preferred) and 7-10 years 
of digital design experience with emphasis on communication circuit 
design.

***************************************************
===================================================
FLAW FOUND IN DIGITAL WIRELESS PHONE SYSTEM

http://www.wow-com.com/professional/news
Computer security engineers say they have discovered a weakness 
in GSM, the most widely used digital cellular phone technology in 
the world. Some are worried that the flaw could eventually be exploited 
to enable hackers to get free service by pretending to be legitimate
subscribers. A software developer and two graduate students say 

they can obtain important security information from GSM cellular 
phones. Click above link for the Cellular Telecommunications 
Industry Association's reaction to this announcement.

===================================================
FROST & SULLIVAN STUDY -- LOCAL VOICE SERVICES 
THROWN OPEN BY TELECOM ACT OF 1996

http://www.wow-com.com/results/professional/
Designed to create a competitive environment, the 
Telecommunications Act of 1996 was an invitation to companies 
from different market segments to vie for the same market share
in the public local wireline and wireless voice services market.  The
question now is, how well has it worked?   According to new 
strategic research from Frost & Sullivan U.S. Markets for Public 
Local Wireline and Wireless Voice Services, the 
Telecommunications Act of 1996 has created the most significant
business opportunity since the long distance market was opened for
true competition 13 years ago.  Many companies are entering the 
local wireline services market such as interexchange carriers (IXCs),
competitive access providers (CAPs), cable TV service providers 
(CATV) and utility companies, as well as wireless voice service 
providers such as cellular carriers, Personal Communications Service
(PCS) providers and wireless local loop voice service providers.

===================================================
WINSTAR LAUNCHES FIXED WIRELESS MULTIPOINT 
METROPOLITAN AREA NETWORK IN WASHINGTON, D.C.

http://www.wow-com.com/professional/news
WinStar Communications, Inc. announced today that it has 
activated a full-duplex ATM-based, point-to-multipoint (PMP) 
broadband, fixed wireless network carrying voice, data, and video 
services in Washington, D.C. The network incorporates two hub sites,
expanding to three shortly, and is providing high-speed 
telecommunications network services over multiple sectors to four 
end-user buildings. According to the company, WinStar's D.C. 
network is demonstrating all the features of a fully networked PMP 
infrastructure, including bi-directional communications on a 
bandwidth-on-demand basis.

===================================================
LOOKING FOR A JOB IN THE WIRELESS INDUSTRY? 

http://www.wow-com.com/wworkplace/
Join thousands of other wireless professionals searching for the
perfect wireless job opportunity by logging on to CTIA's Career
Center. This free online career service offers wireless industry
employment opportunities and information on leading wireless
employment and professional placement services.  The Career Center
is global, offering international job listing and direct access to the
global wireless workplace. Click above to find your next wireless job
opportunity! 
=============================
MORE WOW-COM(TM) FEATURES
=============================
WOW-COM(TM) is current: Routine Updates throughout the 
business day 
WOW-COM(TM) is insightful: CTIA's unbiased analysis 
WOW-COM(TM) is beneficial: Find products and services in
WOW-COM(TM)'s Virtual Trade Show. List open positions in the
WOW-COM(TM) Career Center, receive resumes via email and hire
qualified individuals.
===================================================

This update sponsored by: HUGHES NETWORK SYSTEMS

http://www.hns.com/
Hughes Network Systems is one of the fastest-growing digital
communications companies in the world, providing world-class
wireless, satellite and broadcast products to customers in over 60 
countries.
Today, HNS employs over 500 software engineers and 200 hardware
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http://www.joinhns.com
HNS HOT JOBS CAREER INVITATIONAL. On Saturday, April 25, 
Hughes Network Systems (HNS) is hosting a Hot Jobs Career 
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expenses will be paid for qualified candidates.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Philip Zimmermann 
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 21:30:54 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Amusing takeoff of Zimmermann Telegram
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I thought this was a pretty funny takeoff of the famous Zimmermann 
Telegram.  Apparently this was already sent to the cypherpunks list,
but I just thought that since it made me laugh out loud, maybe I could
laugh out loud on the list.  :-D   --prz

>Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 15:03:22 -0600
>From: The Arthur 
>Reply-To: ta@dev.null
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>To: cypherpunks@toad.com
>CC: Alexander Szek , Nigel de Gray ,
>        Reverend William Mongomery 
>Subject: Pretty Lousy Privacy PasSword--'cyherpunks' / Norman encryption
>
>***
>*** PGP Signature Status: not verified (signing key missing)
>*** Signer: 0x53F2F291
>*** Signed: N/A at N/A
>*** Verified: 4/13/98 at 21:20
>***
>
>Bienfait to Toad:
>
>
Most private for PRZ's personal information and to be handed to the
>
>
Eternal Iminister in (?) England with...by a pretty private route.
>
>

>
>
  We propose to begin on the 19 April an unrestricted subliminal 
>
>
InfoWar fair. 
>
>
  We shall endeavour, in spite of this, to keep MeatSpace neutral.
>
>
In the event of this not succeeding we shall make Austin a proposal
>
>
of alliance on the following basis; make InfoWar together, smoke the
>
>
peace piple together, generous bandwidth support, and an understanding
>
>
that Austin is to reconquer their lost territory in Freedom, Liberty
>
>
and Privacy. The settlement in detail is left to you.
>
>

>
>
  You will inform the Webmaster, that is Webmaster Choate of Austin, 
>
>
of the above most privately as soon as the outbreak of war with
>
>
MeatSpace is certain, and add the suggestion that he should on his
>
>
own initiative invite 2600 to immediate adherence and at the same
>
>
time mediate between 2600 and ourselves.
>
>
  Please call the WebMaster's attention to the fact that the ruthless
>
>
employment of our sublimarines offers the prospect of compelling
>
>
BeaverSpace to peace.
>
>

>
>
Acknowledge receipt with two-word reply...
>
>

>
>
The Arthur
>
>

>






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: john.sabiz1@JEDI.juno.com
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 21:34:21 -0700 (PDT)
To: .LSIR@toad.com
Subject: $ THIS REALLY WORKS !!! -AFOI
Message-ID: <199804140434.VAA23122@cygint.cygnus.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/html



This is it !
DO YOU WONDER IF SOME OF THESE THINGS WORK??
You see it again and again because it WORKS!!  See the message at the bottom!
     This is the letter you've been reading about in the news lately.  Due to the popularity of this letter on the internet, a major nightly news program recently devoted an entire show to the  investigation of the program described below  to see if it really can make people money.  If you saw it, you know that their conclusion was that, while most people did not make the $50,000 discussed in the plan, most people were able to double and triple their money at the very least, in a short amount of time.  The show also investigated whether or not the program was legal.  Their findings proved once and for all that there are absolutely no laws prohibiting the participation in the program.  This has helped to show people that this is a simple, harmless and fun way to make some extra money at home.  This is for real.
        The result of this show has been truly remarkable.  So many people are participating that those involved are doing much better than ever before.  Since everyone makes more as more people try it out, its been very exciting to be a part of lately.  You will understand once you experience it.
         You may have thought this is a chain letter or a pyramid scheme (it's not).  You may have thought this is illegal  (it's not).  You may have just decided its not worth your time  (it is).   Whatever the reason you decided not to try it in the past, I ask you to reconsider.
        After reading the simple instructions below, you will be ready to start.   I think that once you begin to see your first orders in the mail, you will be surprised to learn just how many people are participating in this program.   I have been involved in the program for a long time but I have never seen so many people trying this out as I have recently.   This is good news because the more people that do it, the more everyone benefits.  If you ever thought of giving this a shot, now's the time to do it.  
        There's very little to lose, but alot to gain.  Besides making alittle extra cash each week, its fun to wonder how much money will be in your mailbox each day.  I wish all of you could know the feeling I get each day after work as I go to my p.o. box.  Its exhilerating!
        Just read over the letter below.  It will make starting a breeze.  Hope to hear from you soon.
                                        
                                                                                                     Jenny C.   Grand Junction, CO
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
	      My advice to you is that you save this letter (or print it) for a time.  The idea is very simple, but it definitely takes a few times reading it over before it sinks in.   I am confident that if you read over this letter briefly once now, and once again whenever you get the chance,  you will begin to see the potential involved.
	      Most people do not respond to this letter immediately.  Take as much time as you need to let the idea fly around in your head alittle.
	      This is not a pyramid scheme.   Many people equate this program with illegal schemes that involve nothing but the transferring of cash.  The difference between a legitimate multi-level marketing program and a pyramid scheme is that in a pyramid, there is no money being exchanged for a legitimate product.  The law states this clearly.  Anyone who claims this program is illegal is misinformed in the area of retail law.
	
	      In this program, the product is a  financial report that you can simply e-mail to someone  after they order it from you and send cash to you through the mail.   While the report can be sent easily to yout customers with the click of one button through e-mail, it is nonetheless a legitamate product which people choose to send you $5.00 to purchase from you.
  
	     The other legal issue that most people ask about in programs such as this one  is the issue of tax legality.  The law is clear that all income must be reported to the government each year.  When customers send you cash, it is your responsibility to keep track of how much you are making and report this at the end of the year.
          
	    
          Following is a simple explanation of the system and simple instructions for you to follow to get started right away: 
1)	you save this letter onto your computer in case you need it later
2)	you send $5.00 to each of the 4 people listed below to order a report
3)	each of those 4 people will e-mail you 1 report immediately 
4)	you save these 4 reports onto your computer
5)	you go back to this original letter and move everyone's name down 1 level, removing the  person in the 4th position and putting your name and address in the 1st position
6)	you have this newly altered letter e-mailed to tens of thousands of people  (usually people pay a bulk e-mailer to do this for them to start)
7)	when people receive this letter you sent them, they will see your name and address as the 1st report slot and will send you a $5.00 order for it
8) when people order these reports, from you, you immediately e-mail it  to them (they will give you their e-mail address along with their $5.00)
          Thats it folks......its that simple......the $5 is yours!
	      You e-mail them the report by "copying" it out of the saved e-mail report you received from the person on the list in this letter, and "pasting" it into a new e-mail letter and sending it off....no problem.   After you get the hang of it, you can copy many letters into new e-mails very fast and send off many orders quickly.
	      The reason it works is that everyone involved has an incentive to help everyone else succeed.  The people you order the reports from will e-mail the reports to you immediately because they will profit when you profit.
          Each of the 4 people you order from also will be eager to answer any questions you may have and help you in any way they can so that you can start mailing copies of this letter out with their names on it along with yours.
	        I mentioned above that success in this system can be guaranteed based on simple statistical facts.   When you send out tens of thousands of advertisements (or pay someone to mail them out for you), you can be absolutely positively assured that a certain percentage will respond and send you $5.00 for the report.  The next fact is that the larger the mailing you have sent out, the more responses you will get.   
          Please understand this about this program:  It only takes an extremely small percentage of people to respond to your ad in order for you to make a profit.   This is because your advertisement (with your address or P.O. box on it) will be sent to such incredibly large amounts of people.  (A bulk e-mailer can send your letter out to thousands of people per hour.)  
              
		OVERVIEW OF OUR  ELECTRONIC MULTI-LEVEL MARKETING PROGRAM:
	    Basically, this is what we do:  We sell thousands of people a product for $5.00 that costs us next to nothing to produce and e-mail.  As with all multi-level businesses, we build  our business by recruiting new partners and selling our products.  Every state in the U.S. allows you to recruit new multi- level business online (with your computer).
        Look at multi-million companies such as New Vision (a vitamin supplier).  We use the exact same method of multi-level selling they use.  The only difference is that our product is a financial report you can easily e-mail to someone, rather than costly vitamins.
	    The product in this program is a series of four businesses and financial reports.  Each $5.00 order you receive by regular  mail will include the e-mail address of the sender.  To fill each order, you simply e-mail the product to the buyer.  THAT'S IT!...the $5.00 is yours!   It really is THAT simple!   Think about it...........
FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS EXACTLY
The profits are worth it.  
So go for it.  Remember the 4 points and we'll see you at the top.
				******* I  N  S  T  R  U  C  T  I  O  N  S *******
This is what you must do:
1................  Save this letter onto your computer
2................Order all 4 reports listed and numbered from the list below.
               (For each report send $5.00 and your e-mail address on a piece of paper to each person listed.  When you order, make sure you  print your e-mail address clearly, and also be sure to request each SPECIFIC report.  You will need all four reports, because you will be saving them onto your computer and reselling them.)
      (You will receive the reports a few days later by e-mail.  Save them onto your computer)
3................  Now you have 4 financial reports saved on your computer.  These are  legitimate products that people will want to buy.  You are ready to start advertising  your product to tens of thousands  of potential customers. 
4................  Take this letter and move everyone's name and address down 1 position.  The person in the 4th position gets erased.  Put your own name (make up a company name) and address (could be a home or PO box) in position 1.
 
          At this point you have 2 options.  If you decide you want to advertise yourself, you need to obtain mailing lists and send this newly altered letter to as many people as you can to get people to order the report from you for $5.
         This method can be time consuming and costly. 
         The second option is to pay a bulk e-mailer to mail out your letter for you.  They can send out your letter to tens of thousands of people for a fraction of the cost of the above method. This is the method we recommend and is by far the simplest and cheapest way to go.
 
         When you use a bulk e-mailer, all you need to do is give them a copy of the original letter with the address you want your $5 orders to go to and they will do the rest.   If you are able to find a bulk e-mailer who is already involved with the program, they won't even need the original letter since they will already have it.
        There are many bulk e-mailers out there who will send out your letter for you.  You can find them by doing a search of the word "bulk e-mailer" on the internet.   There are many excellent companies out there who will mail for you, but you still must be alittle wary.  We have found that some companies don't send them out in a productive manner (w/out using fresh addresses or attaching other messages to yours)  and since there is no sure way to know exactly their methods, you're left wondering.  
	
	    The best of all scenarios is to have someone who is also involved in this program mail out your letters for you.  There are many private bulk e-mailers out there who send out this very letter with their names on the list because they know the potential involved.  There is a good chance that one of the people you will be ordering your report from will be able to bulk e-mail out your letter for you.
       When you order the report from the people on the list in this letter, they will e-mail you a report---if they bulk e-mail, they will probably include an offer to send your letters out for you. 
	  There is a simple reason why it is best to have someone involved in the program bulk e-mail out your letters for you.  As mentioned before, it is difficult to verify that a company is sending out your letter in the most profitable way.  If the person sending out the letter is also involved in the program, they will understand the program and, best of all, they will do everything possible to see you get as many responses as possible because when you profit they will profit as well since they are on the list as well.  This gives the person an incentive to take great care in sending out your mail since they have alot to gain from it as well as you.  Other bulk e-mailing companies will not have this same incentive.
You can get 1,000,000 email addresses and a lot more to help you get started for only $19.95.   Write down this Order Number:   30031 and  phone number:  1-888-225-4093.  Call toll free for a lifetime membership (you will not be sorry!, this is a great investment) REALLY. 

ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON ALL ORDERS!!!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQUIRED REPORTS
***Order each REPORT by NUMBER and NAME***
          Following is the list of people you will send $5 to:
         (Remember to include your e-mail address on the paper concealing the 5 dollars)
         When they e-mail the report to you, save them onto your computer.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
REPORT #1 
		"HOW TO MAKE $250,000 THROUGH MULTI-LEVEL SALES"
ORDER REPORT #1 FROM:
C Enterprise
1741 Morninglo Ln
Columbia, SC  29223
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
REPORT #2
		"MAJOR CORPORATIONS AND MULTI-LEVEL SALES"
ORDER REPORT #2 FROM:
BFC
11 Shadow Grey Ct.
Columbia, SC 29223
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
REPORT #3 
		"SOURCES FOR THE BEST MAILING LISTS"
ORDER REPORT #3 FROM:
E. Baker
81 Pondfield Rd. #263
Bronxville, NY 10708
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
REPORT #4 
		"EVALUATING MULTI-LEVEL SALES PLANS"
ORDER REPORT #4 From:
Scotty Group, Ltd
460-A South Commerce Ave
Front Royal, Va 22630
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here's the fun part:
                     Take a look at what is called the "multiplier effect" in marketing:
	      Let's say you decide to start small just to see how it goes.  Assume you advertise your letter until 10 people respond and send you $5.00.  Also assume that those 10 people also advertise until they get 10 people to order and send them $5.00.  	
	Assume this continues for everyone in your downline and observe the following results:
* 	10 people order report #1 from you and send you $5.00
				5  * 10 =  $50
*	 each of those 10 people advertise until 10 people order report #1 from them (since their mailing will have your name 	as #2, 100 people will also send you $5 each to order report #2)
				5  *  100=  $500
*	 each of those 500 people advertise until 10 people order report #1 from them (1000 people order report #3 from you 	and send you $5)
				5  *  1000=  $5,000   
*	 each of those 1000 people advertise until 10 people order report #1 from them
	(10,000 people order report #4 from you and send you $5)
				5  *  10,000=  $50,000
                            
				$50,000  +  $5,000  +  $500  +  $50   
	Total =  $55,550
       
        A bulk e-mailer can send your letter out to thousands of people in one night.  The above scenario holds true if only 10 people out of those thousands respond.  This program is a study in statistics.  A certain percentage WILL respond and send you $5.
*****T  E  S  T  I  M  O  N  I  A  L  S*******
This program does work, but you must follow it EXACTLY! Especially the rule
of not trying to place your name in a different position, it won't work and you'll
lose a lot of potential income. I'm living proof that it works. It really is a great
opportunity to make relatively easy money, with little cost to you.  If you do
choose to participate, follow the program exactly, and you'll be on your way
to financial security.
			Sean McLaughlin, Jackson, MS
My name is Frank. My wife, Doris, and I live in Bel-Air, MD. I am a cost
accountant with a major U.S. Corporation and I make pretty good money.
When I received the program I grumbled to Doris about receiving "junk mail." I
made fun of the whole thing, spouting my knowledge of the population and
percentages involved.  I "knew" it wouldn't work. Doris totally ignored my
supposed intelligence and jumped in with both feet. I made merciless fun
of her, and was ready to lay the old "I told you so" on her when the thing didn't
work... well, the laugh was on me!  Within two weeks she had received over 50
responses. Within 45 days she had received over $147,200 in $5 bills! I was
shocked!  I was sure that I had it all figured and that it wouldn't work.  I AM a
believer now. I have joined Doris in her "hobby."   I did have seven more
years until retirement, but I think of the "rat race" and it's not for me. We owe
it all to MLM.
			Frank T., Bel-Air, MD
I just want to pass along my best wishes and encouragement to you.  Any
doubts you have will vanish when your first orders come in. I even checked
with the U.S. Post Office to verify that the plan was legal. It definitely is! IT
WORKS!!!
			Paul Johnson, Raleigh, NC
The main reason for this letter is to convince you that this system is honest,
lawful, extremely profitable, and is a way to get a large amount of money in a
short time. I was approached several times before I checked this out. I joined
just to see what one could expect in return for the minimal effort and money
required. To my astonishment, I received $36,470.00 in the first 14 weeks,
with money still coming in.
Sincerely yours, Phillip A. Brown, Esq.
Not being the gambling type, it took me several weeks to make up my mind to
participate in this plan. But conservative that I am, I decided that the initial
investment was so little that there was just no way that I wouldn't get enough
orders to at least get my money back. Boy, was I surprised when I found my
medium-size post office box crammed with orders!  For awhile, it got so
overloaded that I had to start picking up my mail at the window. I'll make more
money this year than any 10 years of my life before. The nice thing about this
deal is that it doesn't matter where in the U.S. the people live. There simply
isn't a better investment with a faster return.
			Mary Rockland, Lansing, MI
I had received this program before. I deleted it, but later I wondered if I
shouldn't have given it a try. Of course, I had no idea who to contact to get
another copy, so I had to wait until I was e-mailed another program...11
months passed then it came...I didn't delete this one!...I made more than
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: netcenter-news@netscape.com
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 00:02:00 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: Netcenter News - April Special Edition
Message-ID: <199804140701.AAA09972@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


  
 

Title: Netscape Netcenter News - New Service Announcement


















































WE
NEED
YOUR
MIND


Professional Connections is a new Netcenter online community that allows professionals and industry insiders to come together to discuss trends in online business, debate issues in digital culture, and mix and network with one another. 

Coupled with Member Directory, your Netcenter membership is your ticket to network directly with the best minds of the interactive world. Sign up now, and join us in Professional Connections.


























GET
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DIRECTORY 





Trying to find a business colleague's email address? Looking for a way to share your home page URL with your friends?  Look no further than Netcenter's new Member Directory. An online directory of Netcenter members, Member Directory lets you 

Search for colleagues and friends
Network with other Netcenter members

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Netscape respects your online time and Internet privacy. If you would prefer not to receive future issues, click here to to send an unsubscribe email or reply to this message with the word unsubscribe in the subject line.




Copyright (c) 1998. Netscape Communications Corporation. All rights reserved.

























From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Cyber Media" 
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 04:54:24 -0700 (PDT)
To: sales@cybermedia-inc.com
Subject: Special Web Hosting Offer
Message-ID: <199804141755.NAA29862@ns2.cybermedia-inc.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-------------------------------------------------------------------
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 05:41:11 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: NYT on GSM Hack
Message-ID: <199804141241.IAA21656@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


   The New York Times, April 14, 1998, pp. D1, D5.

   Researchers Crack Code In Cell Phones 

      Weakened Encryption Raises Security Concern 

   By John Markoff

   San Francisco, April 13 -- In successfully cracking a
   widely used encryption method designed to prevent the
   cloning of digital cellular phones, a group of University
   of California computer researchers believe they have
   stumbled across evidence that the system was deliberately
   weakened to permit Government surveillance.

   The method that was cracked is known as G.S.M., for the
   Groupe Speciale Mobile standard. The world's most widely
   used encryption system for cellular phones, G.S.M. is
   employed in about 80 million of the devices worldwide and
   by as many as two million phones in the United States.

   Most of the 58 million American analog and digital cell
   phones are based on a variety of other methods, but 20
   American cellular phone companies, including Pacific Bell,
   a unit of SBC Communications Inc., and the Omnipoint
   Corporation, use the G.S.M. standard.

   Two researchers at the University of California at Berkeley
   announced today that they had successfully broken the
   G.S.M. method by using a computer to determine a secret
   identity number stored in the Subscriber Identity Module,
   or S.I.M., a credit card-like device inside the phone.

   If criminals were to crack the method, they could "clone"
   phones protected by G.S.M. encryption -- that is, detect a
   phone's number and use it in another phone to fraudulently
   bill calls. However, both the researchers and cellular
   telephone company officials said today that the cloning
   threat was extremely remote compared with the vulnerability
   of analog cellular phones.

   For one thing, they said, cracking G.S.M. had required
   almost 10 hours of electronic probing and high-powered
   computing.

   What was even more intriguing than the security threat,
   however, was that cracking the code yielded a tantalizing
   hint that a digital key used by G.S.M. may have been
   intentionally weakened during the design process to permit
   Government agencies to eavesdrop on cellular telephone
   conversations.

   Although the key, known as A5, is a 64-bit encryption
   system -- generally an extremely difficult code to crack --
   the researchers determined that the last 10 digits were
   actually zeros. That means that with the powerful computers
   available to national intelligence agencies, it would be
   possible to decode a voice conversation relatively quickly,
   said Marc Briceno, director of the Smartcard Developers
   Association, a small programmers organization.

   "It appears the key was intentionally weakened," he said.
   "I can't think of any other reason for what they did."

   For years, the computer industry has been rife with rumors
   about encryption designers having been persuaded or forced
   by Government spy agencies to mathematically weaken
   communications security systems or to install secret
   backdoors. Some of the rumors even have the National
   Security Agency or the Central Intelligence Agency posing
   as cryptographers, designing the encryption programs
   themselves and then releasing them -- all to insure that
   they could decode data or phone conversations.

   Such rumors are fed, in part, by the hazy origins of the
   G.S.M. system. Industry cryptographic experts said that the
   underlying mathematical formulas, or algorithms, in
   G.S.M.'s encryption design were thought to have originated
   in either Germany or France as part of the creation of the
   standard in 1986 and 1987.

   But other than today's hint of an intentionally weakened
   system, little evidence has ever emerged to support
   speculation, and the researchers' suspicions were not
   universally endorsed.

   "It's possible there are other reasons for doing this,"
   Stewart Baker, a Washington lawyer who was formerly a
   lawyer for the National Security Agency, said. The N.S.A.

   is one of the agencies most often suspected of such schemes
   because a major part of its mission is to intercept
   telephone calls.

   "Speculation is easy, and it never dies," Mr. Baker said.

   Even so, most industry experts could think of no good
   reason why an encryption algorithm key would be
   intentionally shortened, other than to facilitate
   surveillance.

   "This was deliberately weakened," said Phil Karn, an
   engineer at Qualcomm Inc., a cellular telephone
   manufacturer that has developed an alternative standard to
   G.S.M. "Who do you think would be interested in doing
   something like this?"

   The weakened key was discovered by two researchers, Ian
   Goldberg and David Wagner, both members of the University
   of California at Berkeley's Internet Security Applications,
   Authentication and Cryptography Group, with the aid of Mr.
   Briceno. They stressed that they had easily detected the
   security flaw that could make digital cellular phones
   vulnerable to cloning.

   Cloning has been a costly fraud problem for.many years. But
   digital phones are widely believed to be immune from
   cloning. In San Francisco, Pacific Bell's billboard
   advertisements depict a sheep and a cell phone and boast
   that of the two only the cell phone cannot be cloned.

   Cellular telephone industry executives acknowledged the
   flaw in G.S.M. but said it actually reinforced their claims
   about the security of digital telephones.

   "My hat goes off to these guys they did some great work,"
   said George Schmitt, president of Omnipoint. "I'll give
   them credit, but we're not at any risk of fraud."

   The researchers and the Smartcard Developers Association
   said that the successful attack was new evidence of the
   shortcomings of a widespread industry practice of keeping
   security techniques hidden from public review. Real
   security, they argue, requires publication of the
   algorithms so that independent experts can verify the
   strength of the systems.

   "This shows yet again a failure of a closed design
   process," Mr. Briceno said. "These companies pride
   themselves on their security, but now the chickens are
   coming home to roost."

   [End]






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Duncan Frissell 
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 06:52:08 -0700 (PDT)
To: John Young 
Message-ID: <199804141352.JAA25802@mail1.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


>   researchers believe they have
>   stumbled across evidence that the system was deliberately
>   weakened to permit Government surveillance.

I seem to recall that it was officially announced when the current GSM standard was released that it had been weakened at the request of European governments.  

Is this an example of anti-government advertising and promotion?  Counting on the fact that no one will recall that we already knew this.

DCF




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: maildirect@mailcity.com
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 10:52:18 -0700 (PDT)
To: maildirect@mailcity.com
Subject: Free Email Software!
Message-ID: <033471451170e48UPIMSRGSMTP02@email.msn.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Sex                                      @aol.com
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 11:23:33 -0700 (PDT)
To: Sex                                      @aol.com
Subject:  
Message-ID: <199804141833.OAA06029@brampton1.netmatrix.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



A new FREE porn page everyday! Click ME

























*





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Dianne Evans 
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 15:48:42 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: GSM cellphones cloned
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980414153441.00691a18@jps.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Why don't you guys write up the technical details of your hack and post
them to the list?  Pac Bell, et all can't give you much legal trouble for
practicing your constitutional right to free speech.  
	Congrats and keep up the good work!




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Trans World Specials" 
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 13:32:31 -0700 (PDT)
To: Trans World Airlines Customers 
Subject: Trans World Specials Fare Sales
Message-ID: <19980414184054.24767.qmail@inet2.twa.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Welcome to Trans World Specials for April 14, 1998.
 
 All fares are valid for travel originating 4/18/98 and 
 returning 4/20/98 or  4/21/98.  All tickets  must be
 purchased by 4/17/98.   As always, travel may
 originate in either direction.  
 
 Did you know TWA begins service to Anchorage,
 Alaska next month.  Read all about it at http://www.twa.com
 
 On to this week's Trans World Specials.
 
 Roundtrip coach 
 fare:		To/From:
 
 
 $79		St. Louis, MO (STL) / Wichita, KS (ICT)
 $79		St. Louis, MO (STL) / Minneapolis, MN (MSP)
 
 
 $99		New York , NY (JFK) / Chicago, IL (ORD)  nonstop only
 
 
 $129		St. Louis, MO (STL) / Colorado Springs, CO (COS)
 
 
 Travel is not valid on Trans World Express flights series 7000-7999.   
 
 Call TWA at 1-800-221-2000 and book your Trans World Special today
 
 
 ***********TWA GETAWAY VACATIONS*********************
 
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 - sightseeing in major cities
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 - 5000 bonus FFB miles in addition to actual miles earned
 - available for 6/2,  6/23, and 7/7/98 departures from Tampa, Chicago, 
   Miami, Orlando
 - Indianapolis, Washington DC, and Cleveland
 
 
 SAN JUAN - CROWN PLAZA AND CASINO INCLUDES:
 
 - roundtrip economy airfare
 - hotel located on beautiful Isla Verde Beach
 - 15 minutes from historic Old San Juan
 - 2000 bonus FFB miles in addition to actual miles earned
 - 2 nights accommodations
 - airport transfers 
 - available for $337 from New York
 - for only $392 from Hartford, Boston, Baltimore, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, 
   and Washington DC
 
 Call 1-800-GETAWAY ( 438-2929) and book your GETAWAY tour today.
 
 
 ****************ALAMO*********************************
 
 Alamo offers these low rates for an economy car valid 4/18/98 - 4/20/98
 
 $17.99		St. Louis,  Minneapolis,  Chicago( O'Hare)
 
 $18.99		Colorado Springs
 
 For reservations call Alamo at 1-800-GO-ALAMO and request rate code RT and
 ID # 443833. 
 
 For online reservations visit Alamo at http://www.goalamo.com
 
 
 ***************HILTON HOTELS AND RESORTS***************
 
 Hilton Hotels/Resorts offers these low rates valid the nights of 
 4/18/98 - 4/20/98.
 
 $69	Arlington Park Hilton, Arlington Heights IL ( located only 15 
         minutes from O'Hare near shopping and racetrack, sports complex 
         and tennis )
 
 $89	Minneapolis/St. Paul Airport Hilton, Bloomington, MN ( located
 	only one mile from Mall of America with free shuttle. )
 
 For reservations call Hilton at 1-800-774-1500 and ask for Hilton Value Rates.
 
 Visit Hilton at online at http://www.hilton.com
 
 *******************TERMS AND CONDITIONS*****************
 
 Airfare Terms and Conditions: 
 GENERAL CONDITIONS: Fares shown are round trip, nonrefundable and are subject 
 to change. Changes to itinerary are not permitted.  Fares do not include 
 Passenger Facility Charges of up to $12 depending on itinerary. Must use 
 E-Ticketing for domestic travel. Credit card is the only form of payment 
 accepted. Offer is not available in conjunction with any other discount, 
 coupon or promotional offer. Seats are limited and may not be available on 
 all flights or days of the week. Tickets must be purchased at time of 
 booking and no later than 4/17/98. Standby passengers not allowed. 
 
 DOMESTIC: Valid for outbound travel on Saturday (4/18) and return Monday 
 (4/20) or Tuesday (4/21). Travel is effective 4/18/98 with all travel to be 
 completed by 4/21/98. Minimum stay is 2 days. Maximum stay is 3 days. 
 
 Getaway Conditions: 
 ALL PACKAGES: Package includes round-trip economy airfare from cities 
 indicated. Price is per person based on double occupancy and is subject to 
 change. Availability, restrictions, surcharges, blackouts and cancellation 
 penalties apply. No other discounts or promotions are valid in conjunction 
 with these packages. 
 
 DOMESTIC CONDITIONS: Depart for San Juan Monday-Tuesday and return 
 Wednesday-Thursday. Travel is valid 5/4/98-6/9/98 with all travel completed 
 6/11/98.  Price does not include Passenger Facility Charges of up to $16 per 
 person. Full payment due by 4/20/98. 
 
 INTERNATIONAL CONDITIONS: Seats are limited and may not be available on all 
 flights.  Price does not include Passenger Facility Charges, US 
 departure/arrival, agriculture, and security fees from point of origin of 
 travel up to approximately $68 per person. Single supplement $339.  Full 
 payment is required by 4/20/98. 
 
 Car Rental Conditions: 
 Taxes (including in California, VLF taxes ranging up to $1.89 per day), 
 registrations fee/tax reimbursement, and airport access fees/taxes, if any, 
 are extra.  Optional CDW, liability insurance, fuel, additional driver fee, 
 drop charges and other optional items are extra. Rates higher for renters 
 under age 25. Rates valid for rentals commencing on Saturday and ending by 
 11:59 PM on Tuesday. Rates only valid during week in which they are published 
 via TWA Internet site.  A 24-hour advance reservation is required.  
 Availability is limited. 
 
 Hotel Conditions: 
 Hilton Hotels and Resorts special rates are available only during the specific 
 week in which they are published via the TWA Hot Deals Internet site and the 
 HiltonNet Internet site. Limited availability; rooms at these Hilton Value 
 Rates are sold on a first-come, first-served basis. Availability, rate, and 
 terms of occupancy are not guaranteed and will be confirmed at time of 
 reservation.  Participating hotels, rates and terms are subject to change 
 without notice.  Single or double occupancy. Early check-in, late check-out 
 subject to availability.  No extra charge for children when they stay in 
 parents' or grandparents' room; total room occupancy subject to local fire 
 safety regulations and other applicable laws or regulations.  Rates vary by 
 season, do not include any other fees or charges, including without 
 limitation state or local taxes or gratuities and are subject to change 
 without notice. Advance booking required. Advance deposit may be required. 
 Offer cannot be combined with any other special discounts, coupons, 
 certificates, special rates, promotional offers, award stays, or 
 meeting/group stays.  Hilton reserves the right to cancel any Hilton Value 
 Rate at any time without notice.  Hilton is not responsible for the terms of 
 other offers in the program, or for any electronic, computer, telephone, 
 security, virus or any other problem or damage related to use of the program 
 or its offers.
 
 
 For reservations call 1-800-221-2000 (domestic) or 
 1-800-892-4141 (international) or call your travel agent and ask for 
 TWA's special Internet fares. 
 
 
 
 






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 16:36:10 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: NSA GAK Report Up
Message-ID: <199804142336.TAA04962@camel7.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Federal Computer Week has put the NSA critique of key
recovery on its Web site:

   http://www.fcw.com/pubs/fcw/1998/0413/web-nsareport-4-14-1998.html

See a related FCW article today about it at:

   http://www.fcw.com/pubs/fcw/1998/0413/web-nsacdt-4-14-1998.html

The blacked out portions of the diagrams await decoding.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 18:15:00 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: More on Global SIGINT
Message-ID: <199804150114.VAA22360@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 00:31:58 +0100
To: ukcrypto@maillist.ox.ac.uk
From: Duncan Campbell 
Subject: The discovery of global sigint networks : the early years,  part 2

Ramparts in 1972 was indeed the starting point.   Sadly, many subsequent
reporters later confused what "Winslow Peck" [= Perry (not Peter) Fellwock,
which *is* his true name]  wrote about "keyword" interception of
international telephony traffic.  

The story from then on ..

Early in 1976, Winslow came to London.  I interviewed him at length and
then carried out my own research on GCHQ.  I then published an article in
Time Out, June 1976, called the Eavesdroppers which did for GCHQ and the UK
what Winslow did for NSA and the US.    My co-author was another American
journalist, a Time Out staffer called Mark Hosenball.

The Eavesdroppers was the first (and full) description of what GCHQ was and
did.   There had been no previous article, although World In Action had
attempted a programme in 1972.

GCHQ's directors were apoplectic.  The more so because the combined efforts
of the GPO (who tapped my phone from May 76 onwards), the Special Branch
and MI5 (who followed MH and me around) revealed that we had actually got
the article out *without* breaking the Official Secrets Act.   I had done
my research from open technical sources, and (!) telephone directories;
Peck, as an American wasn't covered by the British law.  

But they got even.   Hosenball, an American, was declared a threat to
national security and deported.   Philip Agee, the famous whistleblower
from the CIA, was added in to the deportation list.

Seven months later, I *was* arrested in the furore over their deportations
together with another Time Out reporter, Crispin Aubrey.   We had talked to
a former British sigint operator, John Berry.   The case became known as
"ABC" after our initials.   Over the coming two years, I was accused of
having too much information and faced two counts of espionage as well as
one of breaching section 2 of the Official Secrets Act (a law which was
repealed almost ten years ago now).   These counts totalled a potential
sentence of 30 years imprisonment.   

At Court 1 in the Old Bailey in October 1978, this disgaceful prosecution -
which marked the high water point of MI5's manic campaigns against
"internal subversion" - fell apart.   The story has just recently been told
in the delightful autobiography of Geoff Robertson QC, who was then my no 2
lawyer.  His book is called "The Justice Game".    Maybe its time for me
own autobio ...

Mrs Thatcher put GCHQ firmly on the world map with the union ban, 5 years
later.   And now ...

Philip Agree is married to a ballerina and lives in Germany.
Mark Hosenball is a reporter in Washington.
Perry Fellwock is a lobbyist in Washington.

Crispin Aubrey is an organic farmer in Somerset
John Berry is a social worker in Somerset.	
NSA and GCHQ are still listening. 
And I'm signing off for now.


At 13/04/98, John Young wrote:
>Peter Sommer noted recently that one of the earliest accounts
>of NSA global electronic interception was published in a
>1972 Ramparts magazine article, which we offer for a bit
>of history:
>
>   http://jya.com/nsa-elint.htm  (84K)
>
>James Bamford, Duncan Campbell, Nicky Hager and others
>have confirmed and extended what was at the time viewed as 
>the fanciful antiwar exaggeration of a young former NSA 
>analyst, named Peter Fellwock, first known by the pseudonym 
>Winslow Peck.
>
>Bamford says in The Puzzle Palace that NSA elected to not
>prosecute Fellwock in the hope that no one would believe his
>astonishing claims of NSA ELINT-ing friends and foes alike.
>
>Would anyone know where Peter Fellwock is now? Assuming
>that the marvelous "Fellwock" is not a NSA-pseudo for "Peck."
> 
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 19:02:12 -0700 (PDT)
To: dcsb@ai.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Apple crypto engineer position available
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Please note, this is *not* a flame. I'm not getting even *slightly* warm,
here... :-).


At 6:20 PM -0400 on 4/14/98, Somebody, Waay Up There at Apple, wrote to me,
offline:

> I don't get it.

Yup. The old irony meter is pegged, alright...

:-).

> >At 12:00 PM -0400 on 4/14/98, Mike Barnick wrote:
> >
> >
> >> Apple is looking for a senior engineer to work on providing cryptographic
> >>APIs on the operating system.
> >
> >:-).
> >
> >I see the law of conservation of irony still holds...
> >
> >Cheers,
> >Bob Hettinga


Tell ya what, Somebody, I'll give you three hints:

Hint 1: Whatsisname Sidhu,

who negotiated the world's first RSA license, and who probably could have
invented digital commerce on the internet all by himself if he only knew
what he had, already bought and paid for, wasted in a mail and LAN
protocol, buried in the bowels of the MacOS.

We still haven't seen what's in that RSA license to Apple, but, given RSA's
financial straits at the time the license was issued, I bet it reads more
of a pornographic act than a legal agreement. :-). I for one would be
interested how transferrable it *still* is. Like, if Apple builds a Mac
crypto toolbox, does that mean that anyone writing code using the crypto
toolbox has a license to use the algorithms therein? I bet so, but the
world will never know. The technology, (RSA, anyway) has a countdown clock
on it now, so it's almost moot. Don't even get me started on ECC, which is,
of course, marvellous, but equally squandered.

Anyway, a more clueful Sidhu, (who, to be fair, couldn't have understood
what was coming) could have, with just a little of the right prompting :-),
taken some of the money you guys gave to, say, Steve, for instance :-), and
bought the blind signature patent at firesale prices from DigiCash ($10
million is chump change, even to Apple, even then, :-)) at last year's
greater-fools exchange of ownership at "the world's greatest financial
cryptography company" (my name, not theirs).

Heck, if Apple had bought DigiCash outright, and just *fired* everybody,
and only used the *technology* (kind of dumb to fire David Chaum, but, hey,
it's my limb, and I'm not coming off of it), Apple could have put blind
signatures into that Macintosh crypto tool box, and the world really
*would* think differently. :-).

That's because, someday sooner than most people think, all these
cryptographic functions, particularly the financial crypto functions like
blind signatures, and probably even something like MicroMint, will be
buried deep in every operating system. Apple could have had crypto for the
rest of us, same as it ever was, way ahead of schedule, same as they always
do. But, no, they fired Sidhu, instead. Causing his whole staff, and every
crypto-clueful person at Apple, to quit in disgust. :-).

What's funny is, Apple *still* has this enormous competitive advantage if
they still want it. Because, even though they're goliath, Microsoft can't
do crypto very well right now. They've got this homunculus called the
Justice Department's antitrust division sitting on their sholder, and they
don't want to do anything to upset Dammit Janet. (I immediately have this
ludicrous picture my head of Ms. Reno in wet underware, with Riff Raff
[Carville, right?] leering at her.) Not to mention the Wrath of the Whole
Rest of the Computer Business, voted through their pocketbooks on capital
hill. ;-). Actually, Microsoft's trying to do strong crypto anyway, bless
their hearts, but they're not going to do it for long, given all the flying
monkeys headed in their general direction.

Fortunately, compared to the antitrust division and their minions, the FBI
is a mere gnat's fart, believe it or not.

That's because, to torture dear Mr. Wolfe, "no Buck Rogers, no bucks":
Digital Commerce *is* Financial Cryptography, and all that. So, all it
really takes from Apple to have this huge advantage, crypto-wise, is for it
to have more cajones than grey matter, which, unfortunately, is exactly the
inverse problem at 1 Infinite Loop, the last I looked. Apple being a
founding signatory to the Key Recovery Alliance Program is a marvellous
example of that. Look, it's a complement, okay? You're *smart*, right? You
just have no --, well, anyway, on to the next hint...


Hint 2: Jon Callas,

who was not only CTO for PGP, but, through being both clueful and at the
right place the right time, ended up CTO for all of Network Associates. NA
is now (or will be soon, after the TIS merger's done) the 900-lb
cryptogorilla nobody's supposed to think about, but can't get out of their
minds.

Of course, this is the same Jon Callas who used to work for the
aforementioned Sidhu, and who, for fun one day, thought up a really
*really* spiffy, rock-solid way to extract real live entropy from the
normal operation of any Macintosh. And I don't mean memory conflicts
either. :-)

What? What's entropy? Hmmm... Well, there's this book you can read, it's
called "Applied Cryptography". It's by a former Mac maven named Bruce
Schneier. You might want to look it up there.  Entropy, of course, brings
me to the the final hint,


Hint 3: Vinnie Moscaritolo,

the guy whose name is written all over Apple's new job discription for a
crypto engineer. The guy who now works for Jon over at PGP-now-NA. Vinnie,
who, while he was at Apple Developer Technical Support last year, asked you
guys to set up a crypto engineering department, not to mention a crypto
toolbox, not to mention a crypto API. Who left in disgust shortly after the
aforementioned Sidhu, but not because you fired Sidhu, because, in typical
Vinnie fashion, he practically venerated Sidhu's clueness about commerce,
because Vinnie saw it as an opportunity (Marines are wierd that way). :-).
Who is probably making waay too much money to come back now, and who would
have probably taken a pay *cut*, even at *DTS* salaries, to do the job had
you offered it to him even a year ago.


Ironic, isn't it?



In the final bit of irony, Somebody Else, in Apple Evangelism at the time,
who was not even especially crypto-clueful back then, and who will also
remain nameless :-), once bandied about the idea of an actual crypto
*evangelist* at Apple. Maybe even a digital commerce evangelist, who, of
course, would be one and the same (digital commerce being financial
cryptography and all).

The irony there is that said evangelist, if hired, would end up spending
all his time evangelizing *Apple*, and not the developer community, who of
course, are clueful and don't need evangelizing about such things.  Such
are things at the new Apple, I guess.

Of course, Somebody Else also doesn't work at Apple anymore either. He
works in, you guessed it, another financial cryptography company. I even
yelled at him about his antics at Apple, even though he's not there
anymore, while we were at the Hansa Bank party at Serenity during FC98 on
Anguilla this year. :-).

Now, what I said *then* was a flame, you better believe it, because back
*then*, when Somebody Else was at Apple, it cost me actual money.

This time, with you, Somebody, it's free of charge, and so I'm not nearly
so worked up.


Cheers,
Bob Hettinga

PS. To save you the cost of a white paper, Somebody, or maybe you can just
pay us for it, already :-), go look at "Digital Commerce for the Rest of
Us", a longish rant Vinnie and I wrote almost two years ago. For some
strange reason, it's still pretty current. ;-).

It's at 

Raines Cohen actually moshed it a bit and stuck it into the inaugural issue
of NetProfessional magazine, god rest it's soul, so you might have seen
some of it there as well.




-----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Internet mail info 
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 22:38:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Receipt of submission
Message-ID: <199804150538.WAA19217@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Hello friend!

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Lucky Green 
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 15:46:46 -0700 (PDT)
To: Duncan Frissell 
Subject: Re: NYT on GSM Hack
In-Reply-To: <199804141352.JAA25802@mail1.panix.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


There were rumors that governments had meddled with the A5/1 voice privacy
algorithm design, causing a weakening of A5/1. I am unaware of any proof
for these claims. A5/2 was of course designed to be weaker, a fact that
has been acknowledged by the GSM consortium.

We found undeniable proof that the keygen algorithm used by A5/1, called
A8, has been deliberately weakened by the designers. We found the smoking
gun. And it is smoking red hot.

Any weakening in A5 itself would come in addition to the weakening of A8.

--Lucky



On Tue, 14 Apr 1998, Duncan Frissell wrote:

> >   researchers believe they have
> >   stumbled across evidence that the system was deliberately
> >   weakened to permit Government surveillance.
> 
> I seem to recall that it was officially announced when the current GSM standard was released that it had been weakened at the request of European governments.  
> 
> Is this an example of anti-government advertising and promotion?  Counting on the fact that no one will recall that we already knew this.
> 
> DCF
> 
> 


-- Lucky Green  PGP v5 encrypted email preferred.
   "Tonga? Where the hell is Tonga? They have Cypherpunks there?"





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: owner-cypherpunks
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Subject: WE ARE WILLING TO PUT OUR MONEY WHERE OUR MOUTH IS!
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Lucky Green 
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 19:19:13 -0700 (PDT)
To: Dianne Evans 
Subject: Re: GSM cellphones cloned
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980414153441.00691a18@jps.net>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Tue, 14 Apr 1998, Dianne Evans wrote:

> Why don't you guys write up the technical details of your hack and post
> them to the list?  Pac Bell, et all can't give you much legal trouble for
> practicing your constitutional right to free speech.  
> 	Congrats and keep up the good work!

A technical description of the attack is at
http://www.isaac.cs.berkeley.edu/isaac/gsm-faq.html

An academic paper will follow.

-- Lucky Green  PGP v5 encrypted email preferred.
   "Tonga? Where the hell is Tonga? They have Cypherpunks there?"





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@webserve.net
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 03:38:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199804151038.GAA32046@home.webserve.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hello,
      There's a hot new xxx search engine in town and
we're ready for links! Tons of categories, if the category
you feel your site fits into best isn't there than drop
us a line and we'll add it (as long as it's legal). This
Search Engine has the look and feel of one of the mroe 
popular search engines, adn we're sure it will be a huge 
surfer bokmark. Check it out and add your link. MAKE SURE 
TO READ THE WEBMASTERS SECTION "BEFORE" YOU ADD YOUR LINK!

Here's the url :-)

http://www.teenagehookers.com

For those of you looking for a TRUE partnership program
backed by both RML (Ryan Lanane) And GSD (Scott Phillips
from Oink bits, Amateur Avanue, and Pink CAsh's Click Thru)
than make sure to drop by 

http://www.teennympho.com/rawclicks/pprogram.html


	Thanks For Your Time!!
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ourplaces@juno.com
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 07:04:26 -0700 (PDT)
To: anyplace@juno.com
Subject: Letter From The PREZ.
Message-ID: <199804151409.GAA18808@ns1.totallink.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


More and more companies are downsizing.

More and more people are working for themselves, and many are [or want
to] work out of their homes.

There are something like 80,000,000 users of the Internet today, and the

Net is a wild, crazy ever-changing, anarchistic baby that seems to be
living in the days of the Wild West!  There are no rules, because
technology keeps changing the playing field.

So how can an individual work from home and take advantage of the Net?

Its hard.  Really hard.  If you are selling a service, or a product, and

you are not a large company, just what can you do?

Email.

Spam?  No - responsible email, with no hype, no lies, no bull.  Yes,
there are some who say that ANY form of unsolicited email is illegal.

Wrong!!!

There are no laws against bulk email so long as the message is not
fraudulent, just like regular bulk mail.

So, by using responsible email, you can reach that huge market at a
fraction of the cost of traditional bulk mail.  Less than 1/10th of a
cent per address...

We will send 100,000 pieces of email for just $99 with up to one full
page of text. The only other limitation is that it cannot be a chain
letter, pornography or hate mail.

Drop us a line at webmaster@alpha-services.com, or fax 561-835-0690, or
call 561-835-4077 and we will send complete details.

Thanks for your time.

Dave Kaplan, President
(You really didn't think this was from THE Prez, did you?)







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 09:06:13 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Paradoxical bandwidth 'law' with anonymizing systems?
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980415090629.007b1530@otc.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I was reading a paper on Onion routing,  and the following occurred to me:
The FEWER people using the system, the SLOWER the system can react.

Otherwise, it leaks temporal information as a block moves from
router to router.

Longer explanation:
Onion routing provides real-time anonymized connections.  (Compare
to "mixmaster" email anonymizers which do not provide real-time
connections).  

If you are trying to avoid timing attacks in such a system,
then the fewer the people using the system,
the longer the routers have to wait, it seems to me.  Otherwise, say if you
were the only user of the system, the fact that packets ("Onions")
are being sent from router to router is easy to track.

If a lot of connections are being processed, the connections from 
router to router are difficult to trace, so the routers needn't
be concerned with imposing delays to impede time-based traffic analysis.

A possible workaround would be to place some of the routers
in time zones which would be active.  That way, even 4AM users
would get temporally anonymized by the busy routers in other zones.
I suppose this is similar to the anonymity-by-groups (e.g., using
a simple proxy) concept, where your 'group' is other users of
Onion routers.  But you can't be anonymous if you're the only one
using the chain of routers, right?


------------------------------------------------------------
      David Honig                   Orbit Technology
     honig@otc.net                  Intaanetto Jigyoubu

	Steel : Meatspace :: Encryption : Virtual space

	










	















From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 00:14:56 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Once upon a time...
Message-ID: <199804150714.JAA14032@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


  ...there was an invisible Dragon who was afraid to breathe fire upon
a Cocksucker who thought he was a Prince, until the Dragon could be
certain that the fairy tale would only be told by those who had learned
to fear the Dragon.
  The Dragon intercepted the Cocksucker Prince's messages and broke
open their seals, in order to search for dirt underneath the fingernails
of the writer that may have fallen into the envelope, and use it to
denigrate his character among those who clean underneath their own
fingernails before flossing at the same time every day.

  The Dragon stole the Cocksucker Prince's writing instruments and
held his couriers hostage, in order to prevent him from completing
his messages to children who still wet their bed, and explain that
when they got tired of pissing all over themselves, that they not
only had the option of pissing up the ass of the monster that was
hiding under their bed, but could also piss in the monster's ear.
  The Dragon did this because pissing up the monster's ass was a
felony, and pissing in the monster's ear was only a misdemeanor.

  The Dragon was a slow-reader and didn't understand that those who
fail to learn from the Cocksucker Prince's fairy tale past are doomed
to repeat it...

AlreadyHadACorkInMyButtBeforeTheDragonGotItsDickOutMonger





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 00:42:02 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Conspiracy Rumors!
Message-ID: <199804150741.JAA16988@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Jonathan Wienke wrote:

> Proud to be a charter member of the vast right-wing conspiracy!

  Rumor has it that Ted Kaczynski was only offered his life-saving
plea bargain after your appearance in the Bay Area and your subsequent
email to Slick Willie offering to fill in for terrible ted in his
absence.
  Another rumor makes much of the fact that Netscape only backed off of
their anti-trust attack on Microsoft and went back to their roots,
providing source code to those battling against the micromonster, after
you dumped their browser in favor of billybeast's exploiter program.

  Other rumors make much of the fact that the Anthrax Twins were 
arrested shortly after you left Las Vegas and met with the guitar
player for Linda Lou & the Drifters, who just happens to do the
electrical work for the Biosphere project outside of Tucson...a 
perfect environment for researching biological warfare delivery
systems.

IKnowWhoYouREALLYAreMonger





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 19:23:18 -0700 (PDT)
To: John Young 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980415095729.008809f0@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 09:45 AM 4/10/98 -0400, John Young wrote:
>Dorothy Denning's Spring 98 course schedule provides an informative
>overview and recommended readings:
>
>   Information Warfare: Terrorism, Crime, National Security
>
>   http://guru.cosc.georgetown.edu/~denning/cosc511/spring98/schedule.html
>
So is there a lab, or is it classroom-only?  :-)

				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 01:46:13 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: GSM cellphones cloned---Threats?
Message-ID: <199804150846.KAA24019@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Tim May wrote:
 
> Watch out, though, that the corps don't decide it might just be cheaper in
> the long run to just pay the 10 grand to have Ian and Dave and yourself
> whacked.

Do you have a phone number?
Is that 10 grand plus expenses?

Just wondering.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mark Altenberg 
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 12:08:52 -0700 (PDT)
To: Robert Hettinga 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On 4/14/98, Robert Hettinga blathered on like this:

>...Hint 1: Whatsisname Sidhu,
>
>who negotiated the world's first RSA license, and who probably could have
>invented digital commerce on the internet all by himself if he only knew
>what he had, already bought and paid for, wasted in a mail and LAN
>protocol, buried in the bowels of the MacOS...

>...Anyway, a more clueful Sidhu, (who, to be fair, couldn't have understood
>what was coming) could have, with just a little of the right prompting :-),
>taken some of the money you guys gave to, say, Steve, for instance :-), and
>bought the blind signature patent at firesale prices from DigiCash ($10
>million is chump change, even to Apple, even then, :-)) at last year's
>greater-fools exchange of ownership at "the world's greatest financial
>cryptography company" (my name, not theirs)....
>

Quite amazing to look at all of the innovation that went on at Apple and
wonder what could have been. From my perspective, the big mistake with
Apple's first implementation of crypto was that it was part of an
architecture (yep, PowerTalk). After close encounters with this and other
wonderfully "flexible architectures", I've learned (the hard way) that this
is one of the best oxymorons in computerdom. Architectures seem like
wonderful, grandiose ways to solve a bunch of problems at once, but they
usually lead a Titanic-like existence, eventually sinking into the abyss
and taking almost everything with it, including products, businesses,
reputations - you name it.

Well, an amazing thing happened. Just before PowerTalk started taking on
serious water, someone managed to throw DigiSign (Apple's digital signature
technology based on RSA public keys) into its own life boat; Apple actually
built a separate library for DigiSign that didn't require PowerTalk. But,
unfortunately, there was leak in this boat, too. You see, the model for
DigiSign's certificates was based on a heirarchy and required a certificate
authority and all of the requisite infrastructure. No one had really done
this yet so Apple had to do more than create DigiSign and put it into the
Mac OS - they had to get this infrastructure in place, too.

Now, even though Apple had the help of RSA and BBN, there was this even
bigger problem of just helping people get it. The best way to help people
understand technology is to make it accessible so almost anyone can play
with it and use it. This is what Apple is known for - making technology so
accessible that people just go nuts, doing things with it and taking it
places no one ever dreamed. That's how Apple catalyzed the transformation
of the publishing industry. Requiring a CA to make DigiSign work simply
made this impossible. A peer to peer model, allowing people to create and
sign their own certificates would have been far more appropriate for
Apple's creative users.  Then came PGP...

C 'est la vie!

Mark
----
mark@altenberg.com







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Pablo Calamera 
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 12:31:27 -0700 (PDT)
To: "'Robert Hettinga'" 
Subject: RE: Apple crypto engineer position available
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Bob,

In general I agree with your points however your historical perspective on
Apple Crypto is far from complete.  You forgot to mention that while Apple
was flailing there where key people who actually did crypto work and managed
to ship great products inspite of Apple.  Those same people tirelessly tried
to evangelize/evolve the technology within Apple to no avail.  We're talking
pre-Vinnie and pre-Jon here.  And in Gursharan Sidhu's defense, he knew
exactly what he had when we got the RSA license!

Pablo Calamera
Security Architect
WebTV Networks, Inc.
voice: 650-614-2749
fax: 650-614-6442


-----Original Message-----
From: mac-crypto@vmeng.com [mailto:mac-crypto@vmeng.com]On Behalf Of
Robert Hettinga
Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 1998 7:00 PM
To: Mac-crypto@vmeng.com; net-thinkers@vmeng.com; cypherpunks@toad.com;
cryptography@c2.net; dcsb@ai.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Apple crypto engineer position available


Please note, this is *not* a flame. I'm not getting even *slightly* warm,
here... :-).


At 6:20 PM -0400 on 4/14/98, Somebody, Waay Up There at Apple, wrote to me,
offline:

> I don't get it.

Yup. The old irony meter is pegged, alright...

:-).

> >At 12:00 PM -0400 on 4/14/98, Mike Barnick wrote:
> >
> >
> >> Apple is looking for a senior engineer to work on providing
cryptographic
> >>APIs on the operating system.
> >
> >:-).
> >
> >I see the law of conservation of irony still holds...
> >
> >Cheers,
> >Bob Hettinga


Tell ya what, Somebody, I'll give you three hints:

Hint 1: Whatsisname Sidhu,

who negotiated the world's first RSA license, and who probably could have
invented digital commerce on the internet all by himself if he only knew
what he had, already bought and paid for, wasted in a mail and LAN
protocol, buried in the bowels of the MacOS.

We still haven't seen what's in that RSA license to Apple, but, given RSA's
financial straits at the time the license was issued, I bet it reads more
of a pornographic act than a legal agreement. :-). I for one would be
interested how transferrable it *still* is. Like, if Apple builds a Mac
crypto toolbox, does that mean that anyone writing code using the crypto
toolbox has a license to use the algorithms therein? I bet so, but the
world will never know. The technology, (RSA, anyway) has a countdown clock
on it now, so it's almost moot. Don't even get me started on ECC, which is,
of course, marvellous, but equally squandered.

Anyway, a more clueful Sidhu, (who, to be fair, couldn't have understood
what was coming) could have, with just a little of the right prompting :-),
taken some of the money you guys gave to, say, Steve, for instance :-), and
bought the blind signature patent at firesale prices from DigiCash ($10
million is chump change, even to Apple, even then, :-)) at last year's
greater-fools exchange of ownership at "the world's greatest financial
cryptography company" (my name, not theirs).

Heck, if Apple had bought DigiCash outright, and just *fired* everybody,
and only used the *technology* (kind of dumb to fire David Chaum, but, hey,
it's my limb, and I'm not coming off of it), Apple could have put blind
signatures into that Macintosh crypto tool box, and the world really
*would* think differently. :-).

That's because, someday sooner than most people think, all these
cryptographic functions, particularly the financial crypto functions like
blind signatures, and probably even something like MicroMint, will be
buried deep in every operating system. Apple could have had crypto for the
rest of us, same as it ever was, way ahead of schedule, same as they always
do. But, no, they fired Sidhu, instead. Causing his whole staff, and every
crypto-clueful person at Apple, to quit in disgust. :-).

What's funny is, Apple *still* has this enormous competitive advantage if
they still want it. Because, even though they're goliath, Microsoft can't
do crypto very well right now. They've got this homunculus called the
Justice Department's antitrust division sitting on their sholder, and they
don't want to do anything to upset Dammit Janet. (I immediately have this
ludicrous picture my head of Ms. Reno in wet underware, with Riff Raff
[Carville, right?] leering at her.) Not to mention the Wrath of the Whole
Rest of the Computer Business, voted through their pocketbooks on capital
hill. ;-). Actually, Microsoft's trying to do strong crypto anyway, bless
their hearts, but they're not going to do it for long, given all the flying
monkeys headed in their general direction.

Fortunately, compared to the antitrust division and their minions, the FBI
is a mere gnat's fart, believe it or not.

That's because, to torture dear Mr. Wolfe, "no Buck Rogers, no bucks":
Digital Commerce *is* Financial Cryptography, and all that. So, all it
really takes from Apple to have this huge advantage, crypto-wise, is for it
to have more cajones than grey matter, which, unfortunately, is exactly the
inverse problem at 1 Infinite Loop, the last I looked. Apple being a
founding signatory to the Key Recovery Alliance Program is a marvellous
example of that. Look, it's a complement, okay? You're *smart*, right? You
just have no --, well, anyway, on to the next hint...


Hint 2: Jon Callas,

who was not only CTO for PGP, but, through being both clueful and at the
right place the right time, ended up CTO for all of Network Associates. NA
is now (or will be soon, after the TIS merger's done) the 900-lb
cryptogorilla nobody's supposed to think about, but can't get out of their
minds.

Of course, this is the same Jon Callas who used to work for the
aforementioned Sidhu, and who, for fun one day, thought up a really
*really* spiffy, rock-solid way to extract real live entropy from the
normal operation of any Macintosh. And I don't mean memory conflicts
either. :-)

What? What's entropy? Hmmm... Well, there's this book you can read, it's
called "Applied Cryptography". It's by a former Mac maven named Bruce
Schneier. You might want to look it up there.  Entropy, of course, brings
me to the the final hint,


Hint 3: Vinnie Moscaritolo,

the guy whose name is written all over Apple's new job discription for a
crypto engineer. The guy who now works for Jon over at PGP-now-NA. Vinnie,
who, while he was at Apple Developer Technical Support last year, asked you
guys to set up a crypto engineering department, not to mention a crypto
toolbox, not to mention a crypto API. Who left in disgust shortly after the
aforementioned Sidhu, but not because you fired Sidhu, because, in typical
Vinnie fashion, he practically venerated Sidhu's clueness about commerce,
because Vinnie saw it as an opportunity (Marines are wierd that way). :-).
Who is probably making waay too much money to come back now, and who would
have probably taken a pay *cut*, even at *DTS* salaries, to do the job had
you offered it to him even a year ago.


Ironic, isn't it?



In the final bit of irony, Somebody Else, in Apple Evangelism at the time,
who was not even especially crypto-clueful back then, and who will also
remain nameless :-), once bandied about the idea of an actual crypto
*evangelist* at Apple. Maybe even a digital commerce evangelist, who, of
course, would be one and the same (digital commerce being financial
cryptography and all).

The irony there is that said evangelist, if hired, would end up spending
all his time evangelizing *Apple*, and not the developer community, who of
course, are clueful and don't need evangelizing about such things.  Such
are things at the new Apple, I guess.

Of course, Somebody Else also doesn't work at Apple anymore either. He
works in, you guessed it, another financial cryptography company. I even
yelled at him about his antics at Apple, even though he's not there
anymore, while we were at the Hansa Bank party at Serenity during FC98 on
Anguilla this year. :-).

Now, what I said *then* was a flame, you better believe it, because back
*then*, when Somebody Else was at Apple, it cost me actual money.

This time, with you, Somebody, it's free of charge, and so I'm not nearly
so worked up.


Cheers,
Bob Hettinga

PS. To save you the cost of a white paper, Somebody, or maybe you can just
pay us for it, already :-), go look at "Digital Commerce for the Rest of
Us", a longish rant Vinnie and I wrote almost two years ago. For some
strange reason, it's still pretty current. ;-).

It's at 

Raines Cohen actually moshed it a bit and stuck it into the inaugural issue
of NetProfessional magazine, god rest it's soul, so you might have seen
some of it there as well.




-----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 13:04:56 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Cylink Corporation to Submit SAFER+
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980415130514.007a1e40@otc.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



http://www.newspage.com/cgi-bin/NA.GetStory?story=b0414070.403&date=19980415
&level1=46545&level2=46549&level3=626

Cylink Corporation to Submit SAFER+
Algorithm to the National Institute of
Standards and Technology 

April 15, 1998


SUNNYVALE, Calif.--(BUSINESS WIRE) via NewsEdge Corporation -- 

Non-Proprietary, Royalty-Free Algorithm will be Evaluated 

as a Replacement for Current Data Encryption Standard 

Demonstrating once again its commitment to deliver freely available encryption
technology to the market, Cylink Corporation (NASDAQ:CYLK), a pioneer in
commercial
cryptography, today announces it plans to submit the SAFER+ algorithm to
the National
Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST). 

NIST is reviewing encryption algorithms that will replace the current Data
Encryption
Standard (DES) which has been used for more than 20 years. The new standard
is called
AES, or Advanced Encryption Standard. The evaluation will take
approximately two
years. 

SAFER+ is a royalty-free, non-proprietary encryption algorithm. Developed by
world-class and world-wide cryptographers, SAFER+ is an enhancement of SAFER,
which was first published in 1993. Since then, SAFER survived the scrutiny
of many of
the world's top cryptographers. Built on the proven track record of SAFER,
SAFER+ is
designed to meet the next generation of security requirements. Cylink
estimates SAFER+
to be five times faster than DES, and ten times faster than Triple-DES. 

"Once again, Cylink is delighted to offer break-through technology to NIST
and the
information security community," said Chuck Williams, chief scientist at
Cylink.
"SAFER+ is the most recent example of our legacy of pioneering the use of
cryptography in practical business solutions, including public key, SAFER,
triple-DES,
key recovery." 

SAFER was originally developed by Professor James Massey, a Cylink founder,
and
funded by Cylink. SAFER+ was sponsored by Cylink and jointly developed by
Massey
and Dr. Lily Chen, chief cryptographer at Cylink Corporation. 

Cylink is recognized as a pioneer in commercial cryptography since its
commercial
implementation of Diffie-Hellman public key management in 1984. It has: 

-- Developed the first public key management co-processor application specific
integrated circuit (ASIC) for public key management acceleration; 

-- Brought to market the first triple DES (data encryption standard)
encryption algorithm
ASIC, and the first high-speed triple DES encryptor. 

-- Introduced several new products including a certificate-based access
control system,
a certificate-based LAN security system, and the world's first asynchronous
transfer
mode (ATM) cell encryptor. 

About Cylink and Algorithmic Research 

Cylink Corporation and its wholly owned subsidiary, Algorithmic Research,
are leading
providers of encryption-based network security solutions. Their products
enable the
secure transmission of data over networks, including local-area networks
(LANs),
wide-area networks (WANs), and public packet-switched networks such as the
Internet.
Cylink and Algorithmic Research serve Fortune 500 companies, multinational
financial
institutions, and government agencies worldwide. For more information,
visit our web
sites at http://www.cylink.com and http://www.arx.com. 

------------------------------------------------------------
      David Honig                   Orbit Technology
     honig@otc.net                  Intaanetto Jigyoubu

	Steel : Meatspace :: Encryption : Virtual space

	










	















From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Illuminatus Primus 
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 11:51:03 -0700 (PDT)
To: David Honig 
Subject: Re: Paradoxical bandwidth 'law' with anonymizing systems?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980415090629.007b1530@otc.net>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Another way to defeat traffic analysis is to maintain a constant stream of
traffic between servers, some of which is noise.. Only someone with the
decryption key would be able to determine which is noise and which is
signal (hopefully).  Pipenet's description involved this constant stream.. 
It may have been one of the resource-consuming aspects that the designers
of onion routing wanted to get rid of.

I have been thinking of anonymous packet resenders recently, and one of
the problems that confronted me was that regardless of how much encrypted
traffic goes between the resender systems, an organization with enough
resources could watch for "unknown" incoming connections at each of the
known resenders and match that with the outgoing connection if there
aren't too many people connected.. The organization could even force some
type of DOS on the incoming connections until the outgoing connection also
dropped (revealing the sender's identity), although I suppose the outgoing
packets could continue to be sent by the resenders in the case of a
dropped connection.  Putting the right stuff in the packets would be
difficult, though. 

To make it more difficult for such an organization to discover a sender's
identity, I thought that if anonymous connections could not be depended on
to be numerous enough, the entry points to the resender system could also
maintain popular web/ftp/mail sites which accepted requests with hidden
packet transmission requests.  Of course, this would make packet
sending/receiving very expensive, and the increased traffic coming from
one IP and destined to mostly anonymous resenders might make it stand out
from the regular connections.. but the identity tracker's job has been
made harder (since he must analyze large amounts of incoming traffic), and
the entry points to the resender system can be said to receive mostly
"innocent" data.

Any comments/ideas?

On Wed, 15 Apr 1998, David Honig wrote:

> 
> I was reading a paper on Onion routing,  and the following occurred to me:
> The FEWER people using the system, the SLOWER the system can react.
> 






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Phillip Hallam-Baker" 
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 13:11:30 -0700 (PDT)
To: "Mark Altenberg" 
Subject: RE: Apple crypto engineer position available
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <000801bd68a9$ef24f3e0$06060606@russell>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> Now, even though Apple had the help of RSA and BBN, there was this even
> bigger problem of just helping people get it. The best way to help people
> understand technology is to make it accessible so almost anyone can play
> with it and use it. This is what Apple is known for - making technology so
> accessible that people just go nuts, doing things with it and taking it
> places no one ever dreamed. That's how Apple catalyzed the transformation
> of the publishing industry. Requiring a CA to make DigiSign work simply
> made this impossible. A peer to peer model, allowing people to create and
> sign their own certificates would have been far more appropriate for
> Apple's creative users.  Then came PGP...

I think Mark makes a mistake in confusing pre-conditions for market
acceptance with requirements for market growth.

>From the perspective of someone who helped the Web grow from a userbase
of less than 100 users I have my own ideas as to why Apple did not
succeed with its powertalk architecture. I see the lack of commitment
to open standards as the key factor.

Consider the attractiveness of a communications system that only
communicates from one Mac to another. Today that might be just about
adequate for many people's needs, after all the PowerMacs are
quite powerful. Back in 1990 however the Mac platform was a rather
weedy 68000 with an operating system that was very expensive to
develop for and a relatively small market share.

If you had a power hungry application in 1990 you had to get a RISC
processor which in turn meant like it or not you had to use UNIX
(or VMS). Standardising on a Mac only platform just was not going
to happen regardless of how great the software was.


To the extent that requiring a CA meant higher startup costs the
powertalk architecture was flawed. The problem had always been a
chicken and egg situation in which PKI applications could not
take off without a CA and CAs could not take off without successful
PKI applications.

PGP cut the gordian knot and demonstrated that it was _possible_
to have a successful PKI application without a CA. But that is not
to say that a trusted third party cannot add value to an
application. PGP validated PKI generally but it did not invalidate
the CA concept - in the PGP system everyone is a trust provider,
everyone is in that sense a CA.


But just because CAs may be dispensed with in a system of 10,000
odd users whose principal concern is confidentiality does not mean
they have no role in a system of over 1 million users where the
legal enforceability of a signed contrat is an issue.

Consider as an example the case in which there are 1,000,000 users
and people generally prefer certificate chains to be no longer than
three people. That can only be achieved if either people on average
sign 100 keys or some people sign a great number of keys (thousands).
In my book anyone who is signing over 1000 keys had better have
a pretty decent idea of what they are doing and should probably
think of themselves as a CA.


The other shortcomming of Apple's approach was not realising
that there is a middle ground. To take an example most people
think of VeriSign as a CA because of our public CA business
(Server certificates, S/MIME certificates). A lot of people who
spend a lot of energy blasting our business model don't realise
that our enterprise offering, OnSite is a product which allows
other people to set up their own CA outsourcing the expensive
to implement Issuing Authority functions rather than handing
over control of their enterprise to us.

It is true that if folk want to issue certificates which are
incorporated into the VeriSign public hierarchy we insist on
certain contractual undertakings from them (i.e. if they issue
a certificate to Fred Bloggs they take the same steps we would
to check it really is Fred Bloggs).


We have already got to the point where we have proved the
viability of PKI generally. The question to ask is not what
are the preconditions for establishing PKI but how can we
grow the PKI market best?


In short Apple's plans were not too crazy from the perspective
of where they wanted to get. The fault lay in not understanding
how the market could get from where it is to where they thought
it should go. They failed to understand that communications
products can only be successful as genuinely open standards with
ubiquitous support. They saw the Powertalk architecture as a
means to sell more Macs, not as a business in itself.


		Phill





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mark Altenberg 
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 16:37:46 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: RE: Apple crypto engineer position available
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 1:06 PM -0700 4/15/98, Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote:
>> Now, even though Apple had the help of RSA and BBN, there was this even
>> bigger problem of just helping people get it. The best way to help people
>> understand technology is to make it accessible so almost anyone can play
>> with it and use it. This is what Apple is known for - making technology so
>> accessible that people just go nuts, doing things with it and taking it
>> places no one ever dreamed. That's how Apple catalyzed the transformation
>> of the publishing industry. Requiring a CA to make DigiSign work simply
>> made this impossible. A peer to peer model, allowing people to create and
>> sign their own certificates would have been far more appropriate for
>> Apple's creative users.  Then came PGP...
>
>I think Mark makes a mistake in confusing pre-conditions for market
>acceptance with requirements for market growth.
>
>From the perspective of someone who helped the Web grow from a userbase
>of less than 100 users I have my own ideas as to why Apple did not
>succeed with its powertalk architecture. I see the lack of commitment
>to open standards as the key factor.
...
>But just because CAs may be dispensed with in a system of 10,000
>odd users whose principal concern is confidentiality does not mean
>they have no role in a system of over 1 million users where the
>legal enforceability of a signed contrat is an issue.
...
>The other shortcomming of Apple's approach was not realising
>that there is a middle ground. To take an example most people...

Lack of commitment to open standards was made obvious by the fact that
Apple considered the POP/SMTP plug-in for PowerTalk to be a 3rd party
opportunity! However, I was only really talking about the DigiSign stuff,
trying not to get sucked into the whole enchalada of discussing why
PowerTalk failed.

I have no bone to pick with the CA model. Apple was stuck at the high end
of this model when, as Phill points out, many levels of authentication are
needed.

I simply think that starting with a personal model, more like PGP, would
have allowed DigiSign to build some momentum, at least in the Mac market
(not a bad place to start). So, it was in fact a pre-condition for market
acceptance. Market growth could have been accelerated by just paying
attention. As with many Apple technologies, there was never a version 2.0
and 3.0 and so on, to correct for the misconceptions about the market. A
lot of people knew what needed to be done, but management usually remained
clueless.

Mark







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Trei, Peter" 
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 14:09:06 -0700 (PDT)
To: "'cypherpunks@toad.com>
Subject: Commerce Secretary attacks crypto export limits
Message-ID: <6B5344C210C7D011835C0000F8012766010036A3@exna01.securitydynamics.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,21120,00.html?st.ne.fd.mdh


Crypto policy called a failure 
By Courtney Macavinta
Staff Writer, CNET NEWS.COM 
April 15, 1998, 11:40 a.m. PT 
URL: http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,21120,00.html 

The government's policy restricting the export of strong encryption products
has failed and is boosting the foreign market by hog-tying the U.S.
industry,
Commerce Department secretary William Daley conceded today.

[...]

But the software industry and privacy advocates were most intrigued today by
Daley's admission that the administration's export limits on encryption
(technology that secures digital communication) are hindering U.S.
companies'
ability to compete with global manufacturers.

The export policy went into effect last January, and is overseen by the
Commerce Department. Under the rules, software makers that are granted
crypto export licenses must submit proof of their plans to build
key-recovery
features into their products after next year. Key-recovery systems make it
possible for law enforcement agents--who have obtained a court order--to
access computer users' private key that unscrambles their digital messages
or
files.

"The ultimate result will be foreign dominance of the market," Daley said.
"This means a loss of jobs here, and products that do not meet either 
our law enforcement or national security needs."

There has been an ongoing fight to overturn the export limits. But a
compromise hasn't been reached with law enforcement officials, who assert
that access to keys is needed to combat a new wave of high-tech crime in
which suspects can cover their tracks with crypto.

[...]





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 12:10:17 -0700 (PDT)
To: KTEHCorporate@kteh.pbs.org
Subject: Re: Gary L. Burnore, Registered Sex Offender in Raleigh, NC
In-Reply-To: <6gfuqv$82u$3@pinta.pagesz.net>
Message-ID: <199804151909.VAA11531@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


beep@ix.netcom.com (Pamela Gross) wrote:

> >You're conveniently omitting a few details.  He's not just "accused", but
> >he was CONVICTED.  His right to privacy went away when he committed a crime
> >and was PUBLICLY tried and convicted by a court in Santa Clara, CA.  That
> >conviction is a public record, just like Ron Guilmette's tax lien that
>      
> Is this who you are?      
>      
> What exactly is a tax lien?  Why did Gary post yours?  Were you having
> a fight of some kind?

Actually Gary Burnore's original beef was with an anonymous whistleblower
who notified the victim's mother and school officials of Gary's pedophelia
before he was ever arrested for it.  (How would a mere troublemaker out to
allegedly "harass" poor Gary have even known about Gary's sexual exploits
before they became public?  And how would he/she have known the identity of
the victim which is still non-public information?)  Back then he was
accusing the poster of "libelling" him and "harassing" the victim.  The
situation only became public when Gary chose to publicly accuse an
anonymous usenet poster of being the same person who had sent the private
e-mails which tipped off the victim's mother and high school principal.

Unable to track down the whistleblower and subject him/her to the typical
DataBasix sort of harassment, he attacked the remailer that was being used,
instead.  See:

  http://infinity.nus.edu.sg/cypherpunks/dir.97.11.13-97.11.19/msg00432.html

And, yes, one of Gary's forms of harassment against another person was to
dig up a 10 year old tax lien on the individual and post it to usenet in an
attempt to embarass him and intimidate him into silence with the threat
"there more where that came from".  See:

  http://infinity.nus.edu.sg/cypherpunks/dir.97.11.13-97.11.19/msg00424.html

When the victim's mother evicted Gary Burnore from her home and eventually
advertised for a new roomate in the ba.market.housing NG back on 5/8/97,
someone made a followup remark on 6/5/97 which said:

  "XXXXX finally booted her pedophile boyfriend, Gary L. Burnore, out of the
   house!  Last I heard, he was high tailing it for Raleigh, NC."
   
Note that this was well before Gary ever registered as a sex offender in
NC.  Gary, never able to able to leave well enough alone, just had to
follow up on the post, even though he has wisely chosen to have DejaNews
delete his reply.  I'm wondering if Gary is worried that someone will
expose the fact that his girlfriend with whom he was living and sleeping
and whose daughter he molested was also a high-ranking official at a public
television station which did business with Gary L.  Burnore's company
DataBasix.  Was that conflict of interest ever disclosed?

And since this is the same Gary Lee Burnore who used to confidently declare
"I have nothing to hide", I guess it was assumed he wouldn't mind if the
truth about him and his sexual quirks were revealed using publicly-available
records posted on a public website by the state of North Carolina.

And, no, I'm not any of the individuals named above.

Careful, Gary.  False accusations of libel might just motivate some people
to prove that the allegedly libellous statement were, in fact, true.  You
apparently bluffed and lost.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 18:31:02 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Commerce Report on the Digital Economy
In-Reply-To: <199804142337.TAA04838@camel7.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <199804160130.VAA26172@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Thanks to Jay Holovacs we've put Daley's press conference
remarks and an executive summary of the "The Emerging
Digital Economy" at:

    http://jya.com/daley-ecom.htm

And we offer the main text of the full report at:

    http://jya.com/emerg-dig.htm  (164K, plus 11 images)

It's available from Commerce in separate HTML chapters 
or the full text with appendices in PDF (300 pages) at:

   http://www.ecommerce.gov/emerging.htm






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Romulo Moacyr Cholewa" 
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 21:59:01 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: RE: NT
In-Reply-To: <19980416032558.6663.qmail@nsm.htp.org>
Message-ID: <003e01bd68f4$412b7d40$0100a8c0@pioneer.rmc1.com.br>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Yes, that's easy...

Just drop it from a 1 meter down straight fall... :-)))

... or simply run DELPART and erase any partitions on the disks...

... or install a separate copy of NT in another folder and run deltree

... or go into \CONFIG and delete the registry

...


There are a thousand ways to acomplish that... can you be more specific ?

:-)))

Best Regards,

Romulo Moacyr Cholewa

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-cypherpunks@toad.com [mailto:owner-cypherpunks@toad.com]On
> Behalf Of nobody@nsm.htp.org
> Sent: Quinta-feira, 16 de Abril de 1998 00:26
> To: cypherpunks@toad.com
> Subject: NT
> 
> 
> Anyone know how to completely crash a NT
> workstation with no possibility of recovery?
> 
> 
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@nsm.htp.org
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 20:34:44 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: NT
Message-ID: <19980416032558.6663.qmail@nsm.htp.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Anyone know how to completely crash a NT
workstation with no possibility of recovery?





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous Sender 
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 00:30:13 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: RE: Apple crypto engineer position available
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


>PGP cut the gordian knot and demonstrated that it was _possible_
>to have a successful PKI application without a CA. But that is not
>to say that a trusted third party cannot add value to an
>application. PGP validated PKI generally but it did not invalidate
>the CA concept - in the PGP system everyone is a trust provider,
>everyone is in that sense a CA.

PGP did in fact invalidate CA concept, very successfully. There is a
world of difference between "everyone is a trust provider" and several
centralized CAs.

Authentication is an essential part of security. If one assumes wrong
who she is talking to then all "strong crypto" used is irrelevant, since
the middleman is browsing the plaintext.

If there is a need, CA customers will be given middleman's keys and all
traffic will be systematically captured, re-encrypted and forwarded to
the intended recipient for as long as required. Maybe even keys with the
same hash (id) can be generated to pass the verification. What percentage
of users would do the non-automated, manual check anyway ?

If trusting a secret key to escrowing entity (GAK) is a bad deal, how is
trusting someone's identity to CA any different ? In both cases security
is deposited with an organization that can be influenced in any number of
ways.

The CA concept does not work because security and privacy are inherently
individual, and any forced insertion of third parties in the process is
bound to miserably fail.

The Fool








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Brown, R Ken" 
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 02:53:56 -0700 (PDT)
To: nobody@nsm.htp.org>
Subject: RE: NT
Message-ID: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2027903@MSX11002>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Yeah, lots of people know.  Mostly the ones who've read the NT manuals.

> ----------
> From: 	nobody@nsm.htp.org[SMTP:nobody@nsm.htp.org]
> Sent: 	16 April 1998 04:25
> To: 	cypherpunks@toad.com
> Subject: 	NT
> 
> Anyone know how to completely crash a NT
> workstation with no possibility of recovery?
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 21:09:18 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Entropy Gradient Reversals
Message-ID: <199804160409.GAA24943@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


http://www.rageboy.com/allthewords.html





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Xena - Warrior Princess 
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 07:07:32 -0700 (PDT)
To: nobody@nsm.htp.org
Subject: Re: NT
In-Reply-To: <19980416032558.6663.qmail@nsm.htp.org>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Liberal application of the "Sledgehammer" virus.

On 16 Apr 1998 nobody@nsm.htp.org wrote:

> Anyone know how to completely crash a NT
> workstation with no possibility of recovery?
> 
> 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 05:02:32 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: NYT on Daley Deal
Message-ID: <199804161202.IAA19810@camel8.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


   The New York Times, April 16, 1998, p. D2.

   Commerce Secretary Seeks Compromise on Encryption

     Administration Reconsiders F.B.I. Position

   By Jeri Clausing

   Washington, April 15 -- The Clinton Administration's attempts to
   control encryption technology have been a failure and are forcing
   American software makers to concede ground to foreign
   competitors, Commerce Secretary William M. Daley said today.

   Mr. Daley's remarks, made in a speech here to the high-technology
   industry, were the strongest indication yet that the
   Administration was seriously considering parting ways with Louis
   Freeh, the Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, and
   other law enforcement and spy agencies over the issue of how data
   should be scrambled.

   "We are headed down a lose-lose path, and we have to get back to
   win-win," Mr. Daley said. He blamed both industry and law
   enforcement officials for the failed policy, saying that the two
   sides had failed to find a reasonable compromise between the need
   to monitor the activities of criminals and the need to offer
   consumers strong security for on-line transactions.

   The purpose of his speech today was to release the Commerce
   Department's first comprehensive report on the impact of
   electronic commerce on the nation's economy. The report shows
   that information technology, including business on the Internet,
   is growing twice as fast as the overall economy, employing some
   7.4 million workers at salaries 64 percent above the national
   average.

   But while the report was full of impressive numbers and glowing
   predictions for the future, Mr. Daley said that strong encryption
   and a solid encryption policy were essential if electronic
   commerce was to realize its full potential.

   Mr. Daley's blunt comments marked the first public acknowledgment
   that the Clinton Administration's encryption policy had failed.
   And his remarks echoed what the industry has contended for years
   -- that foreign companies are fast taking over the high-demand
   market for products that protect the privacy of communications.

   The software industry is currently prohibited from exporting
   strong encryption programs, which scramble data in ways that make
   it difficult or impossible for unauthorized people -- including
   law enforcement agencies -- to decode. Such software is essential
   to electronic commerce, which requires that credit card
   information and other private data be encrypted when products are
   ordered on the Internet.

   The software industry has long argued that the export rules put
   American companies at a great disadvantage relative to foreign
   competitors not under such restrictions. Mr. Freeh and the
   National Security Agency argue that the threat of terrorists and
   other criminals scrambling data to thwart law enforcement is so
   great that the export restrictions should be removed only if the
   police are given keys to unlock encrypted data.

   At the end of 1997, Mr. Daley said, an estimated 656 encryption
   products were being produced in 29 countries outside the United
   States. Products from Germany, Ireland, Canada, Israel and
   Britain can compete with anything made domestically, he said, and
   can meet the needs of the world's computer networks.

   "Our policy, ironically, encourages the growth of foreign
   producers at the same time it retards growth here," Mr. Daley
   said. He called for a sincere dialogue between industry and law
   enforcement, but stopped short of saying that the Administration
   would withdraw its support of the F.B.I. and N.S.A. position.

   "There are solutions out there," Mr. Daley said. "Solutions that
   would meet some of law enforcement's needs without compromising
   the concerns of the privacy and business communities. But I fear
   our search has thus far been more symbolic than sincere.

   "The cost of our failure will be high. The ultimate result will
   be foreign dominance of the market. This means a loss of jobs

   here, and products that do not meet either our law-enforcement or
   national security needs."

   Mr. Daley declined to offer examples of what the Administration
   might be willing to give up to reach an agreement.

   Industry officials, however, said there was no room for
   compromise.

   "People want complete privacy," Peter F. McCloskey of the
   Electronic Industries Alliance said.

   Harris N. Miller, president of the Information Technology
   Association of America, said that companies were willing to
   continue discussions with the Administration, but he asserted
   that Government officials "think compromise is something in the
   middle; sometimes compromise is found outside of the box."

   Mr. Miller said that the solution needed to be a technical one,
   perhaps one that gave law enforcement better training and
   equipment to crack encrypted criminal communications without
   requiring that everyone hand over spare keys to their computer
   files.

   "Law enforcement has legitimate concerns," Mr. Harris said. "What
   we disagree with is their demand for unlimited access."

   [End]






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: FRIEND@hotmail.com
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 07:15:20 -0700 (PDT)
To: anyplace@juno.com
Subject: FINALLY, FRESH & CLEAN !!
Message-ID: <199804161335.TAA14220@sbtx.tmn.ru>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


IT WAS JUST RELEASED!!

INTRODUCING...MILLIONS VOL. 1

We took a total of over 92 million email addresses from many of the 
touted CD's that are out there (bought them all - some were $300+)!  
We added the millions we had in storage to those.   When we 
combined them all, we had in  excess of 100+ million addresses 
in one huge file. 

We then ran a super "sort/de-dupe" program against this huge list. 
It cut the file down to less than 25 million!!! Can you believe that? It 
seems that most people that are selling CD's are duping the public 
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created many duplicate addresses. They also had many program
 "generated" email addresses like Compuserve, MCI, ANON's, etc. 
This causes a tremendous amount of undeliverables, and for  those 
that use Stealth programs, clogs up servers quickly with trash, etc. 

We then ran a program that contained 150+ keywords to remove 
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 webmaster, flamer, abuse, spam, etc., etc.   Also eliminated all .edu, 
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it  reduced it down to near 16 million addresses! 

So, you see, our list will save people hundreds of dollars buying all 
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3 seperate files named cyber1.txt, cyber2.txt, & cyber3.txt of 100,000 
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send mail to the list before deciding if their CD is all it's hyped to be. 

We also included a 2+ million "Remove/Flamer" file broke into seperate
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 "You can buy from the REST or you can buy from the BEST.   Your choice. 
_____________________________

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please send all forms and Check or Money Order to:

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10223-B UNIV. CITY BLVD. #197 
CHARLOTTE, NC  28213






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: chatski carl 
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 05:31:41 -0700 (PDT)
To: Anonymous 
Subject: Re: The Great Internet Bandwidth Crisis
In-Reply-To: <199804160919.LAA02218@basement.replay.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, Anonymous wrote:

> It seems to me that the chief impediment standing in the way of the
> Internet becoming a propaganda and marketing tool suitable for use
> and control by a few rich and powerful business entities is the 
> comparatively inexpensive and easy access of millions of users to
> the same technologies available to megacorporations.
> 
> History itself leads me to suspect that the money and power moguls
> will use a variety of real and imaginary issues to place greater
> monetary burdens and access restrictions on many aspects of the
> Internet and Web, particularly those that have commercial potential.
> 
> A current example is the attempt by various Telecos to raise the cost
> of access for other businesses, citing alleged burdens placed on their
> resources by ISPs at the same time that they are scrambling to enter
> the same market by undercutting their competitors.
> The Great Teleco Resource Crisis will undoubtedly be mirrored at some
> point in the future by the Great Internet Bandwidth Crisis. I suspect
> that although it will be as bogus as the Telecos' current imaginary
> crisis, it will come at a time when the major players have divided up
> enough of the infrastructure pie among themselves to be unanimous in
> their nod-and-wink agreement as to the severity of the crisis.
> 
> Undoubtedly, this will be just one of a variety of crisis in which 
> will require restrictive legislation and cost-increasing regulations
> that will save bandwidth for future children and protect adult citizens
> from the extreme danger of engaging in commerce with other average
> adult citizens such as themselves.
> It seems to me that the *only* way that the Internet can be kept from
> being used as just another tool for herding the masses into larger and
> more efficient feeding pens is to enable and empower the citizens to
> freely and safely control their own financial and commercial destiny
> in their Internet transactions.
> The more accessible and widespread the control over one-to-one monetary
> transactions, the more difficult it will be for a few entities to lead
> the citizens around by financial rings run through their noses.
> 
> The government currently has a variety of budgetary axes held over the
> heads of the citizens, such as federal funding and grants in which
> money taken away from the citizens is returned to them on a statewide,
> local or individual basis only upon conditions that involve giving up
> rights and liberties that are due them.
> 
> In order to resist being herded by a myriad of legal, licensing and
> regulatory 'axes' into increasingly global feeding pens, the citizens
> will need access to tools which allow secure financial transactions with
> differing levels of identity versus anonymity available to them.
> 
> The reason that major business has not yet been able to divide up the
> financial pie available through the Internet is the excessive amount
> of resources that they need in order to compete for the attention of
> Internet users, given that average citizens are providing equal or
> better information and services for free or for a low cost.
> The sooner that the masses are able to engage in free commerce with
> one another via the Internet--whether it be giving Grandma Jones a
> dollar for her cookie recipies, or engaging a student across the
> continent in private research in return for money, for goods or 
> for services--then the sooner the masses will scream loud and long
> when government or corporate entities threaten to take this ability
> to be self-sufficient away from them.
> 
> Those who wish to circumvent the loss of privacy, liberty and freedom
> that they forsee as being possible on the Internet need to realize 
> that most of those who are not currently empowered to manifest those
> possibilities in their individual life will little recognize or
> protest the 'present' loss of those 'future' possibilities.
> Unless there is a widespread dissemination of working tools accessible
> to the average citizen, then the future will be controlled by those
> with the funds and resources to limit financial transactions on the
> Internet to a self-defined 'way things are.'
> 
> "Teach a man to buy his fish from you, and you'll feed yourself for
>  a lifetime."
> 
> 

- Carl





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 23:43:06 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: BioInfoWarFare? / Re: sorry
Message-ID: <199804160643.IAA12778@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Mark Hedges wrote:
> >    *sigh*  actually, that wasn't bad english, it was just accidental
> >html email....i didn't realize netscape would do that and i apologize.
> >ooooooooooooooooo
> >colin                 the feeling that its
> > cjm1@execpc.com      all a lot of oysters
> >maroney          and no pearls.
> >ooooooooooooooooo
> 
> It's 'it's', not 'its'.
> 
> Good English does not coherence generate.

Sounds like a biological agraphia warfare attack, followed by a logic
bomb...
Hhmmm...I smell a Platypus?






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 23:45:19 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Hackworth
Message-ID: <199804160645.IAA12946@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


AN AMBUSHED MARINE

        Have a look at the following. A loyal, heroic Marine is being
fed to the
sharks.

        A letter to your congress person and the Commandant of the
Marine Corps,
with an info copy to your local newspaper, would help.

        For those who might want to help a good Marine financially he
would be
forever grateful.

Tim Witham Legal Defense Fund
c/o Robert Ferris
Box 538
Jacksonville, NC  28541

        SEMPER FI and perhaps the top brass in the Corps should refresh
themselves
as to what this wonderful expression  means.

Hack

14, March 16, 1998
NATION: "Criminal Injustice?"

        To judge from his military paper trail, Marine Sergeant Timothy
Witham, a
33-year-old Explosives Ordnance Disposal (EOD) specialist, is the
embodiment of the Corps. A veteran of Desert Shield/Desert Storm, Witham
has also served with distinction in Somalia. Superlatives suffuse his
service record: "Sergeant Witham's professional achievement, initiative
and
loyal dedication to duty ... reflected great credit upon himself and were
in
keeping with the highest traditions of the Marine Corps and the United
States Naval Service," declared Lt. Colonel G.C. Cutchall in a citation
issued when Witham received the Navy Achievement Medal.

        In a letter endorsing Witham's application to become a Warrant
Officer
Candidate, Lieutenant Colonel E.M. Smith, his former commanding officer
at
North Carolina's Cherry Point Marine facility, praised Witham's
"seasoned
leadership ... high degree of maturity ... poise, understanding and tact."
In
addition to his military service, Witham has also excelled in joint
projects with civilian agencies, according to Smith: "He has established
a
tremendous rapport with outside agencies such as the FBI, various ATF
state
bureaus, Secret Service, DEA and other police agencies." Witham's
dossier
includes a certificate of appreciation from the Secret Service for his
work
as part of a presidential security detail at the 1996 Atlanta Olympics.
He
was also entrusted with similar security responsibilities during the
1994
Middle East peace talks and the UN's 50th anniversary in 1995.

Abrupt Change of Heart

        Noting that Witham is "loyal, displays sound judgment, and is
exceptionally reliable and trustworthy," Lt. Col. Smith recommended his
application "with utmost enthusiasm." Witham's current commanding
officer,
Lieutenant Colonel J.G. Ayala of Marine Wing Support Squadron 271,
offered
a similarly glowing endorsement last September. "[Witham] leads from the
front. Superior knowledge of the EOD field. Can handle any mission and
looks forward to challenging assignments," declared Ayala. "[Witham is
a]
true asset to his section and to this Squadron. His knowledge and
expertise
would make [him] an outstanding candidate for the warrant officer
program."

        However, Ayala's opinion of Witham underwent an abrupt change
just a few
weeks later. "SSgt. [Staff Sergeant] Witham has proven that he is a
threat
to the good order and discipline of the Squadron and the U.S. Marine
Corps," insisted Ayala in an October 17th memo. Ayala's radical
reevaluation of Witham followed the October 16th arrest of Witham and
five
other Marines as a result of "Operation Longfuse," a 16-month joint
sting
operation conducted by the FBI, the ATF, and the Naval Criminal
Investigative Service (NCIS). Witham found himself accused of
"transporting
a loaded weapon on base; conspiracy to commit larceny; larceny of
military
explosives, equipment, and firearms; wrongful disposition of military
property; receiving stolen property; [and] federal firearms and
explosives
violations under the Federal Assimilated Crimes Act."

        Upon his arrest, Witham was designated "a flight risk," which
led Ayala to
support "continued confinement" until his pre-trial hearing - which
turned
out to be a 79-day jail term. "Lesser forms of restraint would be
inadequate to insure that he would appear at his hearing and
court-martial," insisted Ayala. "This is not the first time that SSgt
Witham has been involved in this type of incident." Curiously, in the
same
memo, Ayala noted that there had never been any previous disciplinary
action taken against Witham - which would suggest a serious delinquency
on
the part of his superiors if Witham had indeed been "involved in this
type
of incident" on earlier occasions. Just as curious is the fact that Form
1070 in Sergeant Witham's personal file, which lists "offenses and
punishments," is entirely blank.

        Literally in a single day, a model Marine with an unblemished
record was
transmuted into a felonious arms smuggler whose motivations were equal
parts greed and radical "anti-government" views. Federal and military
investigators have yet to find a particle of material evidence to prove
that Sergeant Witham is the criminal they describe; their case depends
entirely upon the testimony of three eminently impeachable witnesses - a
twice-convicted perjurer, a civilian ex-convict, and an ex-Marine of
dubious integrity who served as a "confidential informant" for the feds
during the undercover operation. Two of the witnesses peddled their
testimony against Witham in exchange for lighter sentences. The
"confidential informant" made an even better deal: He arranged for
complete
immunity before beginning his undercover work, and since October 17th he
has been taken into the witness protection program.

        Last September, Staff Sergeant Timothy Witham was chosen from 20
very
qualified candidates to become a Warrant Officer; now, after spending 79
days in jail, he faces the prospect of an April court-martial. Robert
Ferris, a retired Marine officer and former commanding officer to
Witham,
told The New American: "I spent 24 years in the military, in the Army
and
Marines, and I've never seen an abuse of power to compare with the
treatment of this young man. He should be at Quantico going to school to
become a Warrant Officer, and yet he's exhausting his life savings and
seeing his career destroyed because the feds need to convict somebody to
make a political point." The "political point" being made in the case of
Tim Witham appears to be that mere suspicion of "anti-government" views
is
enough to destroy the career of a model military man.

Extremist Spin

        The "Longfuse" investigation cast a net across several states,
pursuing
leads as far south as North Carolina and as far north as Massachusetts.
Fourteen suspects were arrested on October 17th - eight civilians and
six
Marines, including four stationed at Camp Lejune. Over the course of a
year
and a half, undercover investigators, focusing their efforts on gun
shows,
military bases, and gun dealers throughout the southeast, had purchased
an
estimated 150 pounds of plastic explosives, grenades, grenade launchers,
shoulder-launched rockets, a handful of anti-personnel mines, and more
than
50 machine guns. In the post-Oklahoma City bombing environment, the
preferred spin of federal investigators was entirely predictable.

        Robert Ferris, who is now Witham's next-door neighbor, was a
witness on
Witham's behalf at two preliminary hearings: the "Magistrate's hearing,"
which is held to determine if pre-trial confinement is necessary; and an
"Article 32" hearing, which is the military equivalent of a grand jury.
"The first thing out of the mouth of [military prosecutor] Captain
[Michael] Richardson was 'Ruby Ridge,'" Ferris recalls. "They insisted
that
Tim was part of a ring of anti-government radicals who were stealing
weapons and had sworn not to let the feds take them alive." Thus was
Witham
identified as part of the ubiquitous menace of "right-wing extremism."
Initial press coverage of the "Operation Longfuse" arrests played up the
alleged "anti-government" angle, and the feds did their best to abet
such
speculation - at least in the beginning.

        "Federal agents seized truckloads of stolen military and
civilian weapons
yesterday in an expanding investigation into the theft and sale of
machine
guns, grenades and plastic explosives," screamed the October 18th
Baltimore
Sun. The paper reported that an anonymous investigator portentously
warned
that some of the civilian suspects arrested "have ties - potentially -
to
militia groups." The Raleigh, North Carolina News and Observer carried a
similar warning: "A top official said he could not rule out the
possibility
that anti-government extremists were connected to the theft of military
ordnance from Camp Lejune."

        "These are weapons that are of military use, very lethal
weapons, and they
were weapons that were in the wrong hands," fretted Treasury Department
spokesman Jim Johnson at an October 17th press conference. "That's the
sort
of thing all citizens should be concerned about." Pentagon spokesman
Kenneth Bacon added the disturbing observation that "C-4 was taken,
which
is highly dangerous and used by terrorists."

        For those who missed the message, the Dallas Morning News
offered a useful
summary: "Concern over the theft of high explosives has increased in
military circles along with a broader anxiety about domestic terrorism,
especially in the aftermath of incidents such as the bombing of the
Oklahoma City federal building."

        The "right-wing menace" is the media's favorite enemy, and ATF
officials
were careful to drop tantalizing hints that "Operation Longfuse" had
uncovered something big. "You could outfit a small army with what we've
recovered," claimed ATF special agent Mark Logan. ATF spokesman Earl
Woodham primed the press for further dramatic developments: "The
investigation has really just begun. It's like we just hit the base of
an
oak tree, and if we follow it up, we may find that it branches out very
wide."

Dubious Informant

        The man who planted the acorn that grew into the ATF's "oak
tree" is a
former Marine sergeant who had served as an EOD specialist with several
of
the arrested suspects. In early 1996, this sergeant reportedly
instigated
"Operation Longfuse" when he approached authorities at Camp Lejune to
warn
them that weapons and explosives were being stolen and sold at gun shows
and gun dealerships. That his motives weren't purely idealistic is
suggested by the fact that he was careful to get complete immunity
before
taking an assignment as a paid confidential informant (CI). For the next
year and a half, the CI worked numerous stings against Marines and
civilian
gun enthusiasts.

        The feds deployed other undercover assets as part of "Longfuse"
and tried
to tailor stings to the psychology of the suspects. In the case of
Thomas
Crawford, a Marine captain stationed in Massachusetts who was among
those
arrested on October 17th, the undercover agents reportedly posed as
intelligence specialists who sought arms and explosives for deniable
missions in Latin America - "an Oliver North-type black ops project,"
according to one source. In the case of a second Marine sergeant who was
caught in the sting - and who became the second witness against Witham -
undercover feds reportedly posed as organized crime figures.

        "[The second Marine sergeant] wasn't going anywhere in the
Corps,"
Sergeant Witham asserted to The New American. "He was consistently
denied
promotions; you might say he has more 'pass-overs' than a satellite. I
suspect that he had a real need to feel important, and the undercover
agents were happy to feed his ego."

        From information made available during legal discovery, Witham
relates,
the second Marine "got involved in long drunken discussions with the
undercover people in which he claimed to have been involved in all kinds
of
crimes, including at least one murder. He supposedly helped kill a guy
and
then disposed of the body with a woodchipper. Strangely, though, the
prosecution didn't follow up on that particular story."

        The feds were willing to give credence to the second Marine's
alcohol-aided claims about Witham, which were covertly recorded. "They
initially used those drunken boasts to make three charges against me,"
Witham recalls. "The first was that I had been involved in the theft of
washing machines, dryers, and other appliances, as well as drywall and
other things of that nature. The second was that I had been involved in
forgery, and the third was that I had been involved in the theft of
explosives. The prosecution dropped the first two charges but has stuck
with the third."

        How credible is the second Marine as a witness? According to
local press
reports in North Carolina, he has twice pled guilty to perjury.
Furthermore, he faced accumulated prison terms of up to 380 years on
charges arising from "Longfuse" and reportedly made a deal with the
prosecution in which he could peddle his testimony against others for a
total of 12 years in prison - with the possibility of parole after four.
The third witness against Witham has served a prison term on
firearms-related charges. He also reportedly made a deal for his
testimony
in a previous weapons theft case involving Army personnel.

Casting a Large Net

        Given his own solid military background, and the dubious
background of the
witnesses against him, how did Sergeant Witham get entangled in this
mess?
Attorney Vaughn Taylor, who has acted as Witham's legal counsel,
believes
that the sergeant was "caught in a very large casting net" thrown out by
federal investigators. "There were two things that the government found
very significant," Taylor related to The New American. "First, they were
looking for people who had worked with Captain Crawford in EOD;
secondly,
they were looking at gun shows and people who did business at them. Of
course, these two facts don't add up to a case, particularly when the
suspect is someone like Tim Witham. As far as his military career is
concerned, Witham all but walks on water; it's impossible to imagine
someone farther from the person described in these charges."

        Nor were the feds able to develop a material case against
Witham. On
October 17th, agents from the ATF and NCIS conducted a search of
Witham's
home in Jacksonville, North Carolina; this included an examination of an
adjoining building from which Witham, a federally licensed firearms
dealer,
sold guns and related merchandise. The October 20th "Report of
Investigation" filed by special agent John S. Corpening of the ATF's
Wilmington, North Carolina field office noted that "no machine guns or
prohibited weapons were found" during the search of Witham's home and
business. The report did note that Witham was in possession of a stolen
Ruger pistol. The gun had been brought to Witham for repairs; when he
ran a
check on its serial number, he learned that it was a stolen weapon, and
informed the ATF. As instructed, Witham logged the stolen weapon in his
Acquisition and Disposition record, and held it on behalf of the ATF.

        "Strangely, the ATF's search of my home was conducted, in part,
by
students of mine," Witham informed The New American. "For about three
years
I've been involved with some of them in a drug interdiction program, so
they knew me well before all of this." (Witham has also helped train ATF
and FBI personnel in explosives disposal.) Despite the effort on the
part
of NCIS investigators and Marine officials to depict Witham as a danger
to
public order, the ATF did not seek revocation of his federal firearms
license. "Even though I was in jail for 79 days and face court-martial,
my
firearms license is still active, and my inventory is still intact,"
observes Witham. "If I had done all of the things I've been accused of,
or
any of them, would the ATF have left me with my weapons?"

        On December 19th, Major Robert Brubaker, the Judge Advocate
General
investigator who presided over Witham's "Article 32" investigation,
filed
his report, which once again noted Witham's sterling record and the
poverty
of the case against him. "Evidence was presented demonstrating that
SSgt.
Witham's military character up to this point has been excellent,"
Brubaker
pointed out. "He has a clean, in fact quite distinguished, service
record."
For a man identified as a "flight risk," Witham displayed little
inclination to escape when presented with the opportunity. Brubaker
noted
that the "chasers" - the MPs assigned to watch Witham - were quite
inept.
"To say that their supervision of their charge was loose would be an
understatement," reported the investigator. "I observed a couple of
occasions when SSgt. Witham was alone without the chasers in sight.
There
was one occasion when SSgt. Witham himself tracked down his chasers to
tell
them he was going somewhere and they needed to be with him. To me, this
rather strongly cuts against any argument that he is a serious flight
risk."

        While Brubaker stated that "there probably is sufficient
evidence to send
the case to a court-martial," he also took note of the fact that "the
government seems to be relying quite heavily on the statements of two
witnesses of questionable integrity" to make its case against Witham.
(Since that time a third witness has also offered to testify against
Witham.)

Abuse of Power

        It is possible that Witham's impeccable service record belies
his
involvement in the felonious theft of military weapons and explosives.
However, it is at least as likely that he is merely an exemplary
serviceman
who has been traduced by perjured statements offered in exchange for
special prosecutorial considerations. His case serves as a precautionary
tale about the federal government's increasing reliance upon paid
undercover informants, especially in firearms-related investigations and
other forms of covert operations against the "radical right." In his
book
Deadly Force, law enforcement analyst Carsen Stroud points out that in
1994
the Justice Department budgeted $100 million to spend on confidential
informants, many of them involved in "quasi-criminal or actively
criminal"
enterprises.

        Also significant is the potential impact on military morale
should
Sergeant Witham prove to be the innocent victim of a politically
motivated
abuse of prosecutorial power. "I love the Marine Corps and have great
respect for our federal law enforcement agencies," declares Robert
Ferris,
who was himself a respected field-grade commander. "But what is being
done
to Tim is simply wrong; it's an abuse of power by corrupt and ambitious
people who are, by God, going to get a conviction, whatever it takes to
do
so. In nearly a quarter-century of military service I've never seen a
comparable abuse of power."

-William Norman Grigg

***************************************
Visit our home page at: http://www.hackworth.com
Sign up for the free weekly Defending America newsletter on our website

Snail mail to:
P.O. Box 430
Whitefish, MT.
59937






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 09:14:37 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: NT
In-Reply-To: <19980416032558.6663.qmail@nsm.htp.org>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980416090646.007b8e50@otc.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 03:25 AM 4/16/98 -0000, nobody@nsm.htp.org wrote:
>Anyone know how to completely crash a NT
>workstation with no possibility of recovery?
>

Depends on the processor its running :-)


------------------------------------------------------------
      David Honig                   Orbit Technology
     honig@otc.net                  Intaanetto Jigyoubu

	Steel : Meatspace :: Encryption : Virtual space

	










	















From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 02:19:55 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: The Great Internet Bandwidth Crisis
Message-ID: <199804160919.LAA02218@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


It seems to me that the chief impediment standing in the way of the
Internet becoming a propaganda and marketing tool suitable for use
and control by a few rich and powerful business entities is the 
comparatively inexpensive and easy access of millions of users to
the same technologies available to megacorporations.

History itself leads me to suspect that the money and power moguls
will use a variety of real and imaginary issues to place greater
monetary burdens and access restrictions on many aspects of the
Internet and Web, particularly those that have commercial potential.

A current example is the attempt by various Telecos to raise the cost
of access for other businesses, citing alleged burdens placed on their
resources by ISPs at the same time that they are scrambling to enter
the same market by undercutting their competitors.
The Great Teleco Resource Crisis will undoubtedly be mirrored at some
point in the future by the Great Internet Bandwidth Crisis. I suspect
that although it will be as bogus as the Telecos' current imaginary
crisis, it will come at a time when the major players have divided up
enough of the infrastructure pie among themselves to be unanimous in
their nod-and-wink agreement as to the severity of the crisis.

Undoubtedly, this will be just one of a variety of crisis in which 
will require restrictive legislation and cost-increasing regulations
that will save bandwidth for future children and protect adult citizens
from the extreme danger of engaging in commerce with other average
adult citizens such as themselves.
It seems to me that the *only* way that the Internet can be kept from
being used as just another tool for herding the masses into larger and
more efficient feeding pens is to enable and empower the citizens to
freely and safely control their own financial and commercial destiny
in their Internet transactions.
The more accessible and widespread the control over one-to-one monetary
transactions, the more difficult it will be for a few entities to lead
the citizens around by financial rings run through their noses.

The government currently has a variety of budgetary axes held over the
heads of the citizens, such as federal funding and grants in which
money taken away from the citizens is returned to them on a statewide,
local or individual basis only upon conditions that involve giving up
rights and liberties that are due them.

In order to resist being herded by a myriad of legal, licensing and
regulatory 'axes' into increasingly global feeding pens, the citizens
will need access to tools which allow secure financial transactions with
differing levels of identity versus anonymity available to them.

The reason that major business has not yet been able to divide up the
financial pie available through the Internet is the excessive amount
of resources that they need in order to compete for the attention of
Internet users, given that average citizens are providing equal or
better information and services for free or for a low cost.
The sooner that the masses are able to engage in free commerce with
one another via the Internet--whether it be giving Grandma Jones a
dollar for her cookie recipies, or engaging a student across the
continent in private research in return for money, for goods or 
for services--then the sooner the masses will scream loud and long
when government or corporate entities threaten to take this ability
to be self-sufficient away from them.

Those who wish to circumvent the loss of privacy, liberty and freedom
that they forsee as being possible on the Internet need to realize 
that most of those who are not currently empowered to manifest those
possibilities in their individual life will little recognize or
protest the 'present' loss of those 'future' possibilities.
Unless there is a widespread dissemination of working tools accessible
to the average citizen, then the future will be controlled by those
with the funds and resources to limit financial transactions on the
Internet to a self-defined 'way things are.'

"Teach a man to buy his fish from you, and you'll feed yourself for
 a lifetime."






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 02:20:13 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: IntenseWhore VidKid Sex Machine
Message-ID: <199804160920.LAA02259@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


http://www.pathfinder.com/time/magazine/1998/dom/980420/notebook.techwatch.levit24.html

PLAY STATION Vidkids hooked on high-impact games with stereo sound
tracks will have a tough time leaving their seats at next month's 
E3 convention. That's when BSG Laboratories will debut the Intensor,
a $500 speaker-studded chair (with between-the-legs bass and separate 
subwoofer) to give hard-core players a body-thumping shot of visceral 
reality.

  It seems to me that enterprising children with mechanical ability 
should be able to use common household items, such as vacume cleaners,
blow-driers, doorknobs and wax-fruit to 'enhance' the vidiot experience
that BSG Laboratories will be pimping.
  It seems to me that an enterprising young Tom Cruise type might be
able to combine an enhanced version of the IntenseWhore with a variety
of adult MPEGs and pick up some major cash in between his friends'
'cumings' and goings.

  Sounds like something for the 'Got My Nut'ly News to pursue.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Gilmore 
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 11:39:05 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks
Subject: BXA Encryption Export Seminar - San Jose, April 28
Message-ID: <199804161839.LAA05360@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I think some cypherpunk representatives should attend this seminar.
It's often useful to hear what the BXA is saying when they talk to
exporters instead of a court or the press.  You will probably learn
something about crypto export law, too.  If you have a portable
cassette recorder, see if you can record it for future reference "and
for others at my company".

I'd go, but I have a bunch of committments on that date.  Let me
know how it turns out!

	John

Bureau of Export Administration - U.S. Department of Commerce
		     presents

		ENCRYPTION CONTROLS  

		   SAN JOSE, CA
	April 28, 1998 *  8:30 AM - 5:00 PM 
	  Hyatt San Jose * San Jose, CA

ENCRYPTION CONTROLS - As a result of the release of new rules
governing the export of encryption items previously controlled on the
U.S. Munitions List, the export licensing responsibilities were
transferred to the Department of Commerce (except those specially
designed, developed, configured, adapted, or modified for military
applications).

This full-day program is being held to instruct and assist the
exporting community with this change in jurisdiction. Representatives
from BXA and the National Security Agency (NSA) will explain: the
background and current U.S. policy, the main elements of the controls,
License Exception KMI and the licensing process for encryption cases,
and legislative initiatives and other issues to watch in the future.

WHO SHOULD ATTEND? - This seminar is designed for exporters, freight
forwarders, carriers, international trade consultants, attorneys, and
others who support and advise exporters. If your organization is
involved in a technology-related industry, especially computers,
electronics, defense goods/services, etc., this seminar is a must.

ENCRYPTION AGENDA
8:30-8:35 Opening
8:35-8:45 Overview of morning
8:45-9:00 Encryption Policy
	* What is it? * How does it affect your company?
9:00-9:15 Encryption Regulations
	* What's new? * What's different 
	* How to classify an encryption product
9:15-10:15 Encryption Licenses and the inter-agency review process
	* Validated  * Encryption Licensing Arrangements * Foreign Nationals
10:15-10:30 BREAK
10:30-11:00 Mass Market Encryption Software
	* Helpful Hints
11:00-12:00 License Exceptions: TMP - GOV - BAG for encryption items 
12:00-1:00 LUNCH
1:00-1:45 License Exception Key Management Infrastructure (KMI)
	* Recoverable encryption items
	* Non-recoverable 56-bit DES with a plan
1:45-2:15 Key Recovery Agents
2:15-2:45 Exports over the Internet
2:45-3:00 BREAK
3:00-3:30 Next Steps
3:30-4:00 License practice/policy
4:00-4:45 Questions & Answers

ABOUT THE INSTRUCTORS - The instructors are experienced export
administration specialists and licensing officers from BXA's
Washington, DC headquarters and Western Regional Office. The
instructors - who played a major role in drafting the new encryption
regulations - are available throughout the seminar to answer your
questions.

ACCOMMODATIONS - Special conference rates have been arranged with the
Hyatt San Jose for those who need rooms. Please make your reservations
directly with the hotel by calling (408) 993- 1234 or toll free (800)
233-1234. Mention the "BXA Seminar." Note: The hotel is conveniently
located minutes from San Jose Airport and is also easily accessible by
automobile. The Hyatt offers free parking.

QUESTIONS?- For more information on the Encryption Controls topics,
please call BXA's Western Regional Office at (714) 660-0144. For
information about registration, contact the Federation of
International Trade Associations at (800) 969-FITA or (703) 620-9098.

REGISTRATION Note: Space is limited and will be accepted on a space
availability basis . The Registration Fee for the Seminar is
$125/person and includes continental breakfast, AM & PM breaks,
luncheon and seminar materials. The registration fee is not refundable
after April 22, 1998. Cancellation prior to that date is subject to a
$25 administrative charge.

To guarantee placement for the Encryption Controls Seminar in San
Jose, FAX your registration to (703) 391-0159, and charge the fee on a
MC, VISA or American Express, or mail your registration with your
check payable to FITA-BXA to FITA, 1851 Alexander Bell Drive, Suite
400, Reston, VA 20191.

Attendee Name(s): ____________________________________________________________ 
Company Name:     ____________________________________________________________
Street Address:   ____________________________________________________________
City, State, Zip: ____________________________________________________________
      Phone:      _______________________       Fax: _________________________

[  ] Enclosed is my check for $___________ ($125/person)
[  ]  We prefer to pay by credit card: ____ MC,   ____ Visa,   ____ AMEX

Amount $_________ Acct #_______________________________ Expiry date:__________
Cardholder Name: ___________________________________________________
Cardholder Signature:________________________________________________

			Sponsored by
The Federation of International Trade Associations (FITA)
(For information about FITA, call toll-free (800) 926-FITA)




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous Sender 
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 10:35:09 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: PGP and crypto News from France
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain






-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

- ----------------------------------------------------------
PLEASE REPLY ONLY TO : 
- ----------------------------------------------------------

SUBJET : PGP and crypto News from France


Hi all,

We're glad to announce an english "PGP and crypto News from France" on
the PGP FOR FRENCH site, and a "beta" ;-) translation of our little
PGP History, here :
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Bay/9648/pgpnews.htm

Bye

- --------------------------------------------------------------------
PGP pour les francais / PGP even for the French 
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Bay/9648
PGPkey 14A0 4A67 0431 2402 684D  6EBA 537F 664D 3F80 0D58
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Bay/9648/pplf.txt
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.5.3i for non-commercial use 

iQA/AwUBNTRhsVN/Zk0/gA1YEQJQHACfWWAhaHVKblH2S0VSazSw94F8FXUAoPt+
bxFrPDrfbgcPQgLD3NgULSA2
=8Wr+
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
       






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 1-800-893-6001@toll.free
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 15:25:38 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: ---> How Can I Pay You For My Order
Message-ID: <199804162225.PAA07498@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


   Turn Key Payment Solutions - Sell From Your Web Site 

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Our site has changed since you last visited, so please take the 
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 15:11:32 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: eligable receiver
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980416151200.007b6670@otc.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



THE WASHINGTON TIMES
    April 16, 1998
    Bill Gertz

    Computer hackers could disable military; System compromised in secret
    exercise



    Senior Pentagon leaders were stunned by a military exercise showing
    how easy it is for hackers to cripple U.S. military and civilian
    computer networks, according to new details of the secret exercise. 

    Using software obtained easily from hacker sites on the Internet, a
    group of National Security Agency officials could have shut down the
    U.S. electric-power grid within days and rendered impotent the
    command-and-control elements of the U.S. Pacific Command, said
    officials familiar with the war game, known as Eligible Receiver. 

    "The attack was actually run in a two-week period and the results were
    frightening," said a defense official involved in the game. "This
    attack, run by a set of people using standard Internet techniques,
    would have basically shut down the command-and-control capability in
    the Pacific theater for some considerable period of time." 

    Pentagon spokesman Kenneth Bacon said, "Eligible Receiver was an
    important and revealing exercise that taught us that we must be better
    organized to deal with potential attacks against our computer systems
    and information infrastructure." 

    The secret exercise began last June after months of preparation by the
    NSA computer specialists who, without warning, targeted computers used
    by U.S. military forces in the Pacific and in the United States. 

    The game was simple: Conduct information warfare attacks, or
    "infowar," on the Pacific Command and ultimately force the United
    States to soften its policies toward the crumbling communist regime in
    Pyongyang. The "hackers" posed as paid surrogates for North Korea. 

    The NSA "Red Team" of make-believe hackers showed how easy it is for
    foreign nations to wreak electronic havoc using computers, modems and
    software technology widely available on the darker regions of the
    Internet: network-scanning software, intrusion tools and
    password-breaking "log-in scripts." 

    According to U.S. officials who took part in the exercise, within days
    the team of 50 to 75 NSA officials had inflicted crippling damage. 

    They broke into computer networks and gained access to the systems
    that control the electrical power grid for the entire country. If they
    had wanted to, the hackers could have disabled the grid, leaving the
    United States in the dark. 

    Groups of NSA hackers based in Hawaii and other parts of the United
    States floated effortlessly through global cyberspace, breaking into
    unclassified military computer networks in Hawaii, the headquarters of
    the U.S. Pacific Command, as well as in Washington, Chicago, St. Louis
    and parts of Colorado. 

    "The attacks were not actually run against the infrastructure
    components because we don't want to do things like shut down the power
    grid," said a defense official involved in the exercise. "But the
    referees were shown the attacks and shown the structure of the
    power-grid control, and they agreed, yeah, this attack would have shut
    down the power grid." 

    Knocking out the electrical power throughout the United States was
    just a sideline for the NSA cyberwarriors. Their main target was the
    U.S. Pacific Command, which is in charge of the 100,000 troops that
    would be called on to deal with wars in Korea or China. 

    "The most telling thing for the Department of Defense, when all was
    said and done, is that basically for a two-week period the
    command-and-control capability in the Pacific theater would have been
    denied by the 'infowar' attacks, and that was the period of the
    exercise," the official said. 

    The attackers also foiled virtually all efforts to trace them. FBI
    agents joined the Pentagon in trying to find the hackers, but for the
    most part they failed. Only one of the several NSA groups, a unit
    based in the United States, was uncovered. The rest operated without
    being located or identified. 

    The attackers breached the Pentagon's unclassified global computer
    network using Internet service providers and dial-in connections that
    allowed them to hop around the world. 

    "It's a very, very difficult security environment when you go through
    different hosts and different countries and then pop up on the
    doorstep of Keesler Air Force Base [in Mississippi], and then go from
    there into Cincpac," the official said, using the acronym for the
    Commander in Chief, Pacific. 

    The targets of the network attacks also made it easy. "They just were
    not security-aware," said the official. 

    A second official found that many military computers used the word
    "password" for their confidential access word. 

------------------------------------------------------------
      David Honig                   Orbit Technology
     honig@otc.net                  Intaanetto Jigyoubu

Clarke's Third Law: Any sufficiently advanced technology is
indistinguishable from magic.

	










	















From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 23:11:35 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: DataFellows wins President's Export Award
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980416181548.0085c550@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


It's nice that _some_ presidents give awards for crypto export
instead of trying to stop it!
------------------------------------
http://www.datafellows.com/news/finexpo.htm

4 February 1998 
The developer of F-Secure data security products, Data Fellows Ltd., has received the
President of Finland's Export Award. This award is granted annually to the most
outstanding export companies in the country. This is the first time a developer of
commercial software packages has been granted the award. 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "CJ Parker" 
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 18:25:12 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: eligable receiver
Message-ID: <19980417012439.18318.qmail@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


  From: 
        David Honig 

THE WASHINGTON TIMES
    Computer hackers could disable military; System compromised in 
secret
    exercise

  So when can we expect to hear the first announcements of high-level 
military resignations over the disgraceful state that they have let
our national security fall into while wasting billions of dollars
of our money?

  Please zipfile the announcements forwarded to the list, so that
their massive volume does not swamp all of our email accounts.

cjp


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Dave Emery 
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 18:38:51 -0700 (PDT)
To: Marc Briceno 
Subject: Re: GSM cellphones cloned---Threats?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <19980416214030.04140@die.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Thu, Apr 16, 1998 at 05:50:36AM +1000, Marc Briceno wrote:
> 
> Several radio enineers I talked with speculated that it /might/ even be
> possible to modify a standard GSM phone to act as a rouge "key reaper"
> base station. I am not a radio engineer and have no way to verify this
> claim.

	The modifications would be fairly major and rather difficult on
a surface mount high density low cost phone PC board.  A lot of the
stuff required is in ASICs in a typical phone, and they are not in
general easily adapted to playing a different role even if the full
design database and phone schematics are available to the hacker which
it would not be.

	On the other hand, some of the components of a standard GSM
phone  could be used to fill a number of functions in such an animal,
and a couple of partially stripped GSM phone PC cards would certainly be
useful as part of such.  I would see such a probe base station as a
briefcase size object run by a laptop or powerful palmtop spliced into
two or three hacked up phone PC cards with some added signal processing
logic in a FPGA or two (and maybe an added RF modem chip as well).

	Of course some older phone designs might be less ASIC intensive
and more adaptable, although the 1.9 ghz PCS US versions are mostly
pretty recent.   And there may be some universal multi-standard brand
that is much more software configured than others and might be an easier
jumping off place - I certainly have not investigated this at all (nor
do I expect to).



	On another topic - privacy...


	Your break suggests that A3/A8 may have been deliberately
weakened to allow such SIM probing.   Intelligence agencies are not in
general  interested in cloning, but for those without access to whatever
magic hardware (or software) exists for cracking A5/1 at low cost in
real time, the ability to once recover the SIM secret allows easy
listening to all subsequent calls from that phone (or SIM) with no
required cracking hardware time or access.  And this is very valuable in
lots of situations, such as covert operations out of hotels in foreign
places where having highly classified A5 cracking boxes in tow would be
a significant security risk.

	And for countries with GSM phone systems interested in spying
on visiting diplomats, heads of state, or trade delegations who are using
their GSM phones in a roaming mode and depending on the fact the GSM home
switching office does not disclose their long term secret, such probing can
be quietly concealed in the real traffic of a legitimate base station.
The secrets recovered can then be used to crack traffic back in the
visitor's home country where he may be trusting his local system to
be secure.

	And the ability to probe the phones of visiting dignitaries from
nearby hotel rooms and recover their secrets must be awfully useful to
many even third rate intelligence operations - this allows listening to
all their subsequent traffic without requiring an A5/1 cracking
capability at all - let alone one that works real time from low cost
portable units.

	And even if there is some sanity test in GSM phone firmware that
would catch or prevent enough probes to crack the SIM secret, your 
physical access method allows black bag jobs to recover the SIM secret
of phones left poorly guarded for a few hours.   This alone
is very obviously of great use to intelligence types (at least unless
there is some hardware backdoor in the SIM to allow the readout in
seconds rather than hours).



-- 
	Dave Emery N1PRE,  die@die.com  DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass. 
PGP fingerprint = 2047/4D7B08D1 DE 6E E1 CC 1F 1D 96 E2  5D 27 BD B0 24 88 C3 18





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ArtNoire 
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 22:10:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: woah
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

 


To: ArtNoire@aol.com
Subject: woah
From: ArtNoire 
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 00:53:09 EDT
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Click here to see my
picture




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 16:36:30 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: NoneRe: Gary Lee Burnore, Registered Sex Offender in Raleigh, NC
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199804162336.BAA25338@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Gary Lee Burnore  wrote:

> In 11/96, I kissed a 17 year old girl.  I'm not going to provide you
> with a lot of detail because this isn't the place for it.  

If the girl's mother had heeded the earlier warning she received via e-mail
about your behavior several months earlier (the one you called "harassment"
at the time), this all could have been prevented.  You're lucky that the
11/96 "kiss" is all you were arrested for.  You were foolish to continue it
knowing that Nancy had already been tipped off.

In case you've forgotten, you whined:

-> So now the cowards in Ronald Francis's corner (I'm outright expecting the
-> culprit to be ronald francis himself) have taken to sending email to
-> those who have names listed on databasix's web page.  Sending comments to
-> a 17 year old that they're going to tell her mother that she's having an
-> affair with me.  Telling her mother that I'm molesting her daughter.
-> Having all sorts of fun.

And you threatened to report the anonymous whistleblower to the
authorities?  What chutzpah!  You're molesting a minor, someone tips off
her mother, and you threaten to report the person who tipped her off about
your behavior?

Your claim has now been proven to be a lie.  How would the mere fact that
the girl had a web page at databasix.com have alerted an outsider to the
fact that you were molesting her?  Presumably she didn't post her diary on
her web page, detailing your sexual activities towards her.  Where would
"Ronald Francis", or any other random "harasser" have obtained this
information?  You were too quick to dismiss the idea that all the alleged
"harassment" and spam baiting might have originated from a DataBasix
insider with detailed knowledge of your private life, as well as the
complete list of all DataBasix employees and customers that Belinda Bryan
claimed had been "spam baited".  Who else is getting ahold of all this
inside info, Gary?

> I pass no
> judgment on whether or not she instigated it.  I held myself
> responsible.  That's why I went to see a counselor and offered to pay
> for hers if she wanted to do the same.
>
> It was at the counselor's office that I learned what had happened was
> considered a crime under CA law.  I discussed this with the girl and
> her mother; neither wanted to get law enforcement involved.

But apparently it was serious enough that both your victim and her mother
thought you needed psychiatric help.  (Plenty of people on usenet could
have told you that.)

> To date, this ordeal has cost me nearly $30,000.00 in legal fees, lost
> wages, and other costs.   That however,  is nothing compared to the
> emotional stress of this.  

You spent $30K on what was supposedly a misdemeanor charge to which you
pled guilty?  Someone must have seen you "coming"?  Was it Nancy?

The maximum penalty for a misdemeanor is what?  6 months + $500?  You spent
$30K to get off with 3 years probation?  On a 6 month sentence, you'd
probably have been out in 3 months, and that's assuming you got the maximum
sentence.  Or was the $30K to get it plea bargained down from a more
serious charge?

> It goes on and on and on.

I thought the shrink was to ensure that if didn't.
   
> You know what's so damn frustrating about this?  I chose to talk to a
> councelor about this even though I knew it would bring charges.  I was
> doing the right thing.

What statute in California makes it a misdemeanor to kiss a 17 year old
girl?  (It must make senior proms a lot of fun there if such a law really
exists as you claim.)  Or does it depend on what part of her body you
"kissed" her?

It's also interesting that when it was revealed that you had also been
arrested in San Francisco for unlawful assembly in blocking traffic, you
minimized it and called it a mere "traffic ticket", concealing the fact
that you had already been convicted of something more serious.

Then when someone finally reveals a second criminal conviction on your
record, your sock puppets whine that it's a "half truth".  Well, gee, Gary,
you were content when the WHOLE truth was being concealed.  So much for you
"I have nothing to hide" boast!




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Tyrone W. Grandison" 
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 23:58:04 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: EC
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Does anyone know where I can find a compilation of E-Commerce attacks ?

Any sites on conpromising EC would be a plus ..





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "CJ Parker" 
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 07:32:05 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Prologue 18 - SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS!!!
Message-ID: <19980417143132.17239.qmail@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

Prologue 18 - SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS !!!

"Everything is becoming science fiction.
 From the margins of an almost invisible literature
 has sprung the intact reality of  the 20th century."
~ J.G. Ballard ~

Hidden Empire:

Peter Jennings, Canadian Circle of Eunuchs Journalist, recently pointed out, on 'World News Tonight,' that the "rewards" of "labor saving" modern technology seem to be mysteriously "missing."
Jennings pointed out that the normal American working family now has 'two' individuals working a '47-hour week.'

Interestingly, Jennings managed to work into the story an example of the $3 Billion that the US government has laying around to invest in digging vast expanses of underground tunnels, etc., in New Mexico, for the purported purpose of (unsuccessfully) seeking out a suitable place to deposit nuclear waste. (He made no direct reference to Underground Reptilian Nazis.)

In the same evening news program, the CoE initiate aired a report containing a subliminal InfoWar reminder to US citizens as to their true role in the government's scheme of things, with a parody of the primitive primary products of Peristroika-TAXES, TAX PROMOTION and TAX ENFORCEMENT.
It described the implementation of the new (to Russia) income tax system, and showed promotional advertisements on the Pavlovian Broadcasting System (PBS) meant to ingrain in the minds of the citizens the officially correct way to view their new friend, Mr. Tax.
"Depressed? Pay your taxes, and you'll feel better."
"No appetite? Pay your taxes, and you'll feel better."
And, for the benefit of those who still know a poisoned Carrot when they see one, Russian PBS also carries promotional advertisements that blatantly and unashamedly trumpet the dark, underlying theme of Tax Agencies around the world, and which American taxpayers can easily recognize from their own experience:
"THE TAX ENFORCERS HAVE GUNS, AND THEY KNOW HOW TO USE THEM."
(Accompanied by live footage of armed thugs in camouflage subduing and kicking the crap out of scumbag tax resisters.)


Isn't it funny how Life imitates Real Life (tm)?




Maybe It's Under The Bed:

So where, exactly, are the mountains of cash resulting from the much ballyhoo'ed Benefits of Modern Technology (tm)?

In an age where it takes two individuals, working harder and longer than the former solitary 'bread earner,' to struggle (and fail) to maintain the same standard of living and future security that existed at a time when the infrastructures around them were undergoing building and expansion, as opposed to their current fall into decay, where are the "missing" benefits of technology disappearing to?

Question: "Where did the 'money go' that was earned by the workers in the proverbial Company Town (tm)?"
Answer: "Where it *always* goes...into deep pockets of the Empire...in this case, the Company Empire and the pockets of the company owner."

Major Question: "Could it possibly be that the Benefits of Modern Technology are being surreptitiously slipped into the pockets of a Hidden Empire (tm), which serves as an invisible version of a Global Company Town?"
Major Answer: "Those who do not learn from the past, are doomed to repeat it..."


How I Would Build A Hidden Empire:  (by Human Gus-Peter)
  [Disclaimer: I am just a kid with an overactive imagination, but...]

   If I wanted to steal all of the financial benefits of modern technology, I would take advantage of all the things I learned subliminally by ignoring the official version of history that my teachers were promoting while concentrating my conscious attention on making my spitballs stick to the ceiling and impressing the cute girl sitting behind me.

   I would first have my secret agent guys become the bosses of the people who sell Geritol  and make fun of their husband's Cuban accent on TV.  I would have them begin selling The Way Things Are (tm) by controlling the entertainment and news that people got to see.
   People have always resigned themselves to TWTA.  It used to be Kings who held their attention with swords and Priests who held their attention with hellfire, but now it is TV that holds their attention with Pavlovian hypnosis.

   Next, I would have my secret guys begin putting the financial benefits of modern technology into the pockets of those who were a part of my Hidden Empire, since people can't miss what they never have.
   I would make sure that my people controlled the money supply and could let people mostly maintain their standard of living, even while raising their taxes and creating all sorts of BlackHoles for new money to disappear down, such as bloated Defense budgets and social programs where it could be funneled into the pockets of my Hidden Empire.

  When the taxes, regulatory fees, licensing fees, interest charges, users fees, and the mountain of other money sources I was able to make The Way Things Are had grown so large that people started recognizing the resemblance to Company Town, Indentured Slavery, and the like, then I would begin making things so that they would receive fewer services and less benefit for the same amount of work.
   I would do it slowly, so that more people working longer hours for slowly declining services and benefits would gradually and constantly become the new, improved Way Things Are.

   I would make sure that those making the laws and those engaged in business benefited greatly from supporting the aims and maintenance of my Hidden Empire, and suffered greatly if they opposed or resisted it in any way.
   I would use my power to control The Way Things Are to direct anger, resentment and resistance of the people toward the government and corporate symbols schills of my Hidden Empire, and keep them from revolting against The Way Things Are by giving them the illusion of being able to control and change The Way Things Are by voting and making consumer decisions.  I would let them rearrange the pawns on my playing board while keeping The Game (tm) moving at a confusing enough pace so that they would hardly notice that the major pieces on my board always remain the same, no matter how they vote, or what illusory decisions they make in their role as consumers.

  Most importantly, I would cement the hold of my Hidden Empire on their lives by not only controlling the information that was fed to the masses, but also gaining access and controlling all of the information that they fed to my shills, and to each other.
   I would cause them to receive a mark in their right hand, or their forehead, which would identify them when they worked, banked, got a drivers license, bought dog food with their discount card at the supermarket.
   I would put in place an extensive surveillance network that could monitor their movements when they ate at a fast food restaurant, used a long-distance cash card, rented a Ryder truck, parked near a federal building, traveled without a license plate on their vehicle. (And if they ordered a Kentucky Fried Chicken 'snack pak' for their final meal, I would make sure it was delivered with an 'extra leg.'-hee, hee)

  I would make certain that the minions of my Hidden Empire could intercept and monitor all forms of communication on a global basis, and provide me with the information I needed to make, break and manipulate every individual, group, company and government on the face of the earth.  I would call one part of this operation 'Echelon' and another part of it 'Octopuss.'

   Lastly, I would use my power to monitor and control all communications to increase the range and power of my Hidden Empire by keeping a sufficient number of people just comfortable and secure enough to express approval of The Way Things Are (tm) in polls designed to find out how much more I can steal from them for the coffers of my Hidden Empire (tm) without mounting a revolution.
   As long as my shills could use their power to sexually assault women in the highest of government offices, financially ruin corporations to steal their software, murder men, women, children and goat-herders at will, without the average person risking their comfort and security by attempting to make serious changes in The Way Things Are, then I would continue to have my shills slowly eat away all of their rights, freedoms and their liberty in every area of their life, all across the face of the earth, until I succeeded in creating a Global The Way Things Are that would finally become resigned to their subjugation that I would no longer have to hide my Empire, and could openly give it an official name.
   I kind of like "New World Order..."  



Quit Being Silly:
[Note from the Editor: Believe it or not, Human Gus-Peter wrote the above without having read any of the following (and he's just a kid...):]


To: e$@vmeng.com
From: Robert Hettinga 
Subject: e$: Tet in Cypherspace

Actually, LBJ would have caused stagflation doing that "we owe it to
ourselves" stuff anyway, but it's a nice pipe dream. Nonetheless, money is
always much more important than "policy". In spite of the most bloodthirsty
actions of the most totalitarian statist -- say, the late Pol Pot -- it's
money that creates law, and not the other way around.

This presidency, more than any other in the history of this nation -- a
nation where political corruption has been celebrated as fine art --
understands this simple fact as a natural course of doing its lucretive
business. And the irony that the most socialist president in American
history is also the most attuned to income has never been lost on the people
he's trying to tax and regulate out of business.

However, Freidrich Hayek has been proven right once again where the Clintons
have been concerned, though it's hard to figure out sometimes if Billary are
outright totalitarians themselves or just Hayak's "useful idiots" in the
now-dead cause of socialism. Fortunately, like any good parasites, Billary
can't kill their host, as this latest "spinglage" on cryptography seems to
show. That need for a market "host" for socialism to suck blood from, in the
end, is what has saved our freedom again.



Subject: fincen propaganda
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net

------- Forwarded Message
From: "Mark A. Smith" 
> FinCEN: Financial Crimes Enforcement Network
> http://TeamInfinity.com/~ralph/FinCEN.html
> 
> Big Brother Wants to Look Into Your Bank Account (Any Time It Pleases)
> 
> The US government is constructing a system to track all financial
> transactions in real-time - ostensibly to catch drug traffickers,
> terrorists, and financial criminals. Does that leave you with the warm
> fuzzies - or scare you out of your wits?
> By Anthony L. Kimery

> Launched with a low-key champagne reception at the Treasury Department in
> April 1990, FinCEN is the US government's (perhaps the world's) most
> effective financial crime investigation unit. Even Russian President Boris
> Yeltsin asked for its help in locating stolen Communist Party funds. This
> state-of-the-art computer-snooping agency is quietly tucked away under the
> auspices of the Treasury Department. Its mission is to map the digital
> trails of dirty money, be it the laundered profits from drug sales, stolen
> S&L loot, hidden political slush funds, or the financing conduits of
> terrorists. It's the only federal unit devoted solely to the systematic
> collation and cross-analysis of law enforcement, intelligence, and public databases.

> Inside FinCEN's new digs on the second floor of a gleaming high-rise office
> building down the road from the CIA in Vienna, Virginia (otherwise known as
> "Spook City"), the talents of the IRS, FBI, DEA, Secret Service, and other
> traditional federal cops such as customs agents and postal inspectors are
> pooled. According to senior intelligence officers, these investigative units
> can access the resources of the CIA, the National Security Agency (which
> intercepts data on electronic currency movements into and out of the United
> States, some of which make their way into FinCEN's analyses), and the
> Defense Intelligence Agency.

> Bruh and other FinCEN officials openly acknowledge their association with
> the CIA, but they refuse to discuss further any aspect of FinCEN's dealings
> with it or any other intelligence agency. In addition to the CIA,
> intelligence officials have admitted, off the record, that the National
> Security Council and the State Department's Bureau of Intelligence and
> Research (INR) have also joined FinCEN's impressive intelligence crew. In
> short, FinCEN is a one-of-a-kind cauldron containing all the available
> financial intelligence in the United States.
> 
> "It's the first ever government-wide, multi-source intelligence and
> analytical network brought together under one roof to combat financial
> crimes," said Peter Djinis, director of the Treasury Department's Office of
> Financial Enforcement and one of the few Treasury officials close to FinCEN
> activities.

> As routine as such assignments as this case may be, the chumminess between
> FinCEN and the intelligence community raises serious questions about the
> privacy and security of the financial records of citizens John and Jane Doe,
> considering the intelligence community's historic penchant for illegal
> spying on non-criminals. Given the vast reach and ease with which the
> government can now tap into an individual's or business's financial records
> on a whim, these questions have received far too little scrutiny.

> But FinCEN has a hush-hush US$2.4 million contract with the US Department of
> Energy's Los Alamos National Laboratory to develop what Bruh and other
> FinCEN officials de-scribed as a powerful "money flow model." Unlike
> FinCEN's current system, Los Alamos's AI software will look for unexplained,
> atypical money flows. Coupled with a massively parallel computer system, the
> AI/MPP could perform real-time monitoring of the entire US electronic
> banking landscape.

> In the near future, all of these government databases will be interfaced by
> way of AI/ MPP technology. "MPP is critical to FinCEN's ability to analyze
> (banking) data to its full capacity," Bruh insists.
> 
> The pure power of such a "database of databases" terrifies critics. Though
> FinCEN and other authorities discount the potential for abuse, tell that to
> the CIA. Its charter forbids it from engaging in domestic surveillance;
> nonetheless, it spied on Americans for seven consecutive presidential
> administrations (it says it finally ceased its internal spying in the mid-
> 1970s).

> "The risk of the CIA getting its hands on this is serious - we know the kind
> of unscrupulous people who populate the spook world," said a Washington-area
> private investigator who conducts many legitimate financial investigations
> for a CIA-linked firm. "This kind of financial data, when coupled with other
> information like a person's credit history, could be used for blackmail,
> bribery, and extortion," said the investigator, who has a military
> intelligence background.
> 
> Bruce Hemmings is a veteran CIA clandestine-services officer who retired in
> 1989. Prior to the DTS proposal, he told Wired that the CIA routinely digs
> for financial dirt on people from whom the agency wants specific
> information.

> DTS could present an inviting mechanism for quieting unwanted dissent or for
> defanging an unruly congressional leader bent on exposing some questionable
> CIA operation. Although still in its embryonic stage and in spite of the
> looming privacy obstacle it will inevitably confront, FinCEN is seen by many
> in the government as the catalyst for a powerful, all- seeing, all-knowing,
> global, financial-tracking organization. In fact, FinCEN is al-ready working
> closely with INTERPOL, and Bruh's deputy just resigned to head up INTERPOL's
> US office.


Want To See Something REALLY Scary?
[Editors Note: Unfortunately the following is NOT fiction.]

> Seated at a computer terminal inside FinCEN's former command post, a FinCEN
> analyst began the hunt. He started by querying a database of business phone
> numbers. He scored a hit with the number of a local restaurant. Next he
> entered the Currency and Banking Database (CBDB), an IRS database accessed
> through the Currency and Banking Retrieval System. CBDB contains roughly 50
> million Currency Transaction Reports (CTRs), which document all financial
> transactions of more than US$10,000. By law these transactions must be filed
> by banks, S&Ls, credit unions, securities brokers, casinos, and other
> individuals and businesses engaged in the exchange of large sums of money.
> 
> The analyst narrowed his quest by searching for CTRs filed for transactions
> deemed "suspicious." Financial institutions must still file a CTR, or IRS
> Form 4789, if a transaction under US$10,000 is considered suspicious under
> the terms of an extensive federal government list. There was a hit. A series
> of "suspicious" CTRs existed in the restaurant's ZIP code. Punching up
> images of the identified CTRs on his terminal, the FinCEN analyst noted that
> the transactions were made by a person whose first name was John. The CTRs
> were suspicious all right; they were submitted for a series of transactions
> each in the amount of US$9,500, just below the CTR threshold of US$10,000.
> This was hard evidence that John structured the deposits to avoid filinga
> Form 4789, and that is a federal crime.
> 
> Selecting one of the CTRs for "an expanded review," the analyst got John's
> full name, Social Security number, date of birth, home address, driver
> license number, and other vital statistics, including bank account numbers.
> 
> Plunging back into the IRS database, the analyst broadened his search for
> all CTRs filed on behalf of the suspect, including non-suspicious CTRs. Only
> 20 reports deemed suspicious popped up on the screen, but more than 150 CTRs
> [brought to you by:ralph@TeamInfinity.com http://TeamInfinity.com/urls.html]
> were filed in all. A review of the non-suspicious ones revealed that on
> several, John listed his occupation as the owner or manager of the
> restaurant identified by the telephone number on the slip of paper taken
> from the arrested drug dealer. The connection between the name and the phone
> number originally given to FinCEN was secured.
> 
> The FinCEN analyst then tapped commercial and government databases, and
> turned up business information on the restaurant showing that John had
> reported an expected annual revenue for his eatery of substantially less
> than the money he had been depositing, as indicated by the CTRs. Fishing in
> a database of local tax assessment records, the analyst discovered that John
> owned other properties and businesses. With the names of these other
> companies, the analyst went back into the CTR database and found that
> suspicious transaction reports were filed on several of them as well.


"When all you have is a gigantic schlong , everything looks like a citizen."
~ Human Gus-Peter ~





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 10:17:42 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Quebecois: CSE not spying on you (NSA does that, we trade..)
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980417101801.007b9710@otc.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Full story at
http://www2.thestar.com/thestar/back_issues/ED19980406/news/980406NEW01d_NA-
SPY6.html	

OTTAWA - Canada's ultra-secret spy agency is not eavesdropping on the
private conversations of Canadian citizens, Quebec's former chief justice
says. 


 For the past 20 months, Claude Bisson has scrupulously monitored the
activities of the Communications Security Establishment (CSE), a
half-century-old agency that operates so clandestinely its very existence
was not even publicly acknowledged until 1983. 



 ``My mandate is to assure that the CSE is abiding by the Constitution and
after 20 months I can assert it is abiding by the law,'' Bisson,
commissioner of the CSE, said during his first interview since taking on
the task of reviewing the agency's activities in June, 1996. 


 ``There is no targeting of Canadians in general and Quebecers in
particular. I am satisfied and I can assure the Canadian people that CSE
abides by the law.'' 

------------------------------------------------------------
      David Honig                   Orbit Technology
     honig@otc.net                  Intaanetto Jigyoubu

Clarke's Third Law: Any sufficiently advanced technology is
indistinguishable from magic.

	










	















From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: my-yahoo@yahoo-inc.com
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 12:23:46 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Registration confirmation - My Yahoo!
Message-ID: <199804171923.MAA16225@e2.my.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Your Yahoo ID is       cpunks
Your e-mail is            cypherpunks@toad.com

Please save this message for future reference.

This confirmation message is sent to all users when 
they create a new account with Yahoo. When users register for
a new account, we require them to provide an e-mail address.
This confirmation notice is then sent to that address.

If you DID NOT request this account, or would like to REMOVE 
it, use one of the following steps:

-Click the hyperlink below
-Cut and paste the following address into your browser:
http://edit.my.yahoo.com/config/remove_user?k=IXtKZHdyeXx0OI4heUpleGF%2bYjQ3fGRjfHd7IXVKT041TzM2NzU1IXNKeo4%3d
-Or, if you do not have a web browser please REPLY to 
this message, and include this ENTIRE EMAIL with 
REMOVE in the subject line.

Welcome to My Yahoo!...

You can return to My Yahoo! by going to
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that request a Yahoo! ID, such as:

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For information on Yahoo! ID's, please see below...


------------------

Yahoo! Accounts - Top Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)

Q. How is the Yahoo! ID stored?

A. It is stored as a "cookie" on your local computer.
This way, you only need to sign in once. If you upgrade 
your browser software, or change computers, you will
probably be asked for your Yahoo! ID.  Because we usually 
do not ask for a Yahoo! ID, many people forget their Yahoo! 
ID and/or password.  Save this e-mail message to remember 
your Yahoo! ID.

Q. What if I forget my password?

A. Every Sign in page has a link at the bottom in case you have 
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to remember your Yahoo! ID, and we will ask for your birthdate 
(as you entered it when you registered).

Q. What if I forget my Yahoo! ID?

A. Every Sign in page has a link at the bottom in case you 
have problems signing in.  This link will lead you to a form 
that you can use to retrieve your Yahoo! ID.  You will need to 
provide us with your email address, birthdate and zip code, 
as you entered it when you registered (so that we can verify you)

Q. I'm sure I've typed the right Yahoo! ID/password, but I keep 
getting rejected. Why?

A. Follow the instructions on the "Forgot your password"
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Q. How do I know if I am signed in?

A. All personalized areas require a Yahoo! ID except Netscape 
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you are already signed in.


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A. If you are using "public" computers, you should
always sign out to "clear" your Yahoo! ID and cookie from
the computer's hard drive. The bottom of most pages
contain a "Change User" or "Sign Out" button. If you 
do not see one, go to http://my.yahoo.com and use
the "Sign-Out" link at the top of the page.

Q. I've changed E-Mail providers, how do I update
   my information?

A. Go to http://my.yahoo.com and click on the
Account Information link at the top of the page.
The edit page will let you update your E-Mail address, 
and other personal information and preferences.

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A. Absolutely nothing. All Yahoo information is
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[192.233.133.248]






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bubba ROM DOS 
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 11:37:15 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: CoE/AoD Notice! / [Fwd: A.Word.A.Day--cabal]
Message-ID: <3537A173.FD0@dev.null>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Due to the recent murder of the L.M. Boyd sampler by the Dark Forces,
future confirmations of the existence of an InterNet-wide network of
secret Circle of Eunuchs initiates will be in the capable hands of
the Word.A.Day website.

In keeping with a long-standing tradition, and in order not to fry the
mental brain-neuron circuits of those who are not imbibing enough nectar
of the drunken SODs to run 220V through a 110V circuit without doing
irrepairable harm to the MeatSpace manifestation of their Eternity
SoulServer, the timing of the confirmations will continue to be of
a nature that those without the ability to mathematically calculate
time-zones, as well as those who need to suspect subterfuge on the
part of those disseminating the manuscripts of 'The True Story of the 
InterNet' *after* receiving the Word.A.Day emails, will be able to
ease the excessive resistance their mind has to the flow of the Tao
by constructing within their minds a conspiracy theory in this regard
that puts the conspiracy theories contained in the mad ramblings of
the Author to shame.

e.g. - Although, on the surface (and far below the surface, perhaps 
reaching to the core of the Earth), it might appear that 'Prologue 18'
of 'Space Aliens Hide My Drugs', containing references to an alleged
'Hidden Empire' secretly controlling MeatSpace Reality, was followed
minutes later by A.Word.A.Day email defining the word 'cabal,' it can
be easily surmised by those familiar with the operation of the Trei
Transponder that this might well be a clever manipulation of time and
space by those whose Virtual Clock is based on the same 2600 hour 
time-frame that allowed Graham (Cracker) (Captain) John (Parker) 
Buller (Shit) to appear to be auto-replying to the semi-mysterious
ASCII Art slams against Tim C. May, even though a thorough examination
of Canadian maps reveals that Edmonton, Alberta, does not really 
exist, and that GJB is actually a Newfie, desperately trying to hide
the fact that his true MeatSpace persona resides deep within the
bowels of Newfoundland's half-hour time zone, which is the laughingstock
of the Great White Snort.

Nonetheless, when the Atomic Clock strikes 9:02 a.m. on April 19, 1998,
(9:32 a.m. in Newfoundland), rest assured that it will set in motion a
chain of events which will lift the leg of the Army of Dog, resulting
in the cutting of a monumentous fart that will surprise and overwhelm
the government robots programmed to believe that they are about to 
be pissed on, and are wearing raincoats that will provide little 
protection against the biological warfare attack that is first cousin
to the product of the castor bean, and which decimates those who are
unprepared for the true nature of the attack on their senses, while
being 'good for the heart' of the madman launching the attack.

Unlike the Grateful Dead who die smiling as the result of a 'pussy 
fart,' the Targets of TRIN (TM) will go to their graves wishing that
they had been farsighted enough to have eyes to see and ears to hear
the Voice Barfing In The Wilderness (TM) which warned them of the
coming attack on the Virtual Physical Appendage that knows what evil
lurks in the hearts of men...


To: linguaphile@wordsmith.org
Subject: A.Word.A.Day--cabal
From: Wordsmith 
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 08:26:03 -0400

cabal (kuh-BAL) noun

   1. A conspiratorial group of plotters or intriguers:
      "Espionage is quite precisely it-a cabal of powerful men, working
      secretly" (Frank Conroy).

   2. A secret scheme or plot.

cabal intr.verb

   To form a cabal; conspire.

[French cabale, from Medieval Latin cabala.]

WORD HISTORY: The history of cabal reveals how a word can be transferred from
one sphere of activity to another while retaining only a tenuous connection
with its past. Ultimately from Hebrew but transmitted to English probably by
way of Medieval Latin and French, cabal is first recorded in English in 1616
in the sense "cabala." Cabala was the name for the Hebrew oral tradition
transmitted by Moses and also the name for a Jewish religious philosophy
based on an esoteric interpretation of the Hebrew Scriptures. The notion 
"esoteric" is central to the development of this word in English, for cabal,
probably following the sense development in French, came to mean "a 
tradition, special interpretation, or secret," "private intrigue" (first
recorded in 1646-1647), and "a small body of intriguers" (first recorded in
1660). It is probably not coincidental that cabal is found with these latter
meanings during the mid-17th century, that time of plots and counterplots by
Royalists and Parliamentarians. The word gained a false etymology when it was
noticed that the five most influential ministers of Charles II were named
Clifford, Arlington, Buckingham, Ashley, and Lauderdale.
 
   "What you are seeing happen though is rump groups of so-called wise men,
   former foreign policy advisers to both Democratic and Republican
   administrations are beginning to meet in little sort of cabals around
   town..."
   Congress Getting Its Hands in Foreign Policy,
   Morning Edition (NPR), 9 May 1994.
 
This week's theme: words with interesting histories.
 
...........................................................................
The only function of economic forecasting is to make astrology look 
respectable. -John Kenneth Galbraith
 
Switching ISP or employer, and need to change the address on the list?
Sign-off from the old address by sending a blank message with Subject
line as "unsubscribe" to wsmith@wordsmith.org.  Sign-up at the new address
by sending message with Subject line as "subscribe ".





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bubba ROM DOS 
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 12:28:22 -0700 (PDT)
To: David Honig 
Subject: Re: Quebecois: CSE not spying on you (NSA does that, we trade..)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980417101801.007b9710@otc.net>
Message-ID: <3537A634.1764@dev.null>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


David Honig wrote:
> 
> Full story at
> http://www2.thestar.com/thestar/back_issues/ED19980406/news/980406NEW01d_NA-
> SPY6.html
> 
> OTTAWA - Canada's ultra-secret spy agency is not eavesdropping on the
> private conversations of Canadian citizens, Quebec's former chief justice
> says. 


"The policy of the Intelligence Directorate of the CIA to provide Canada
with finished analyses costing millions of dollars--even though that got
little or no information in return--was generous, but it was based on
enlightened self-interest as much as anything.
"The theory was that if Canada had the same information as the United
States, it would adopt similar policies.
"That's precisely what happened and Canada remained a firm ally, causing
little or no trouble or concern for the United States."

~ 'Men In The Shadows / The RCMP Security Service' by John Sawatsky

Can you say 'Bum-Buddies'? Sure you can...






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Violent Terrorist Mailing List 
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 13:49:32 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Welcome to the Violent Terrorists Mailing List
Message-ID: <3537C10F.76D5@dev.null>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Your Violent Terrorists ID is 'cpunks':
Your co-conspirator-email is cypherpunks@toad.com:

Please save this message for future evidence.

This confirmation message is sent to all users when 
they plot the violent overthrow of their government. 
When lusers conspire to overthrow their government, 
we require them to provide a valid search-warrant address.
We will soon be kicking down the doors of that address.

Thank you for conspiring to violently overthrow your 
government!

Jammit Reamhole & Uno B. Freeh, NOMO





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: JASPARKES 
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 12:59:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: my email changed
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

 


To: JASPARKES@aol.com
Subject: my email changed
From: JASPARKES 
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 15:49:13 EDT
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Click here to see my
picture




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: rory@rory.rory
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 00:58:14 -0700 (PDT)
To: rory@rory.rory
Subject: Best Looking Sites
Message-ID: <199804172348.QAA07208@medialand.com.tw>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



We design & maintain the Hottest & Best looking Web Sites in the World at dirt cheap prices.

- There are Millions of potential clients using the Internet
- Your Business could increase incredibly
- We use the Best tools to make your Site Known to Millions

Make Money Now - With a WEB SITE - you have Nothing to lose

For further information please go to:  webmaker@n2mail.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: mail@hk.super.net
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 15:01:18 -0700 (PDT)
To: mail@hk.super.net
Subject: Self Defense Video for All Ages - Male or Female
Message-ID: <199804171399QAA52165@post.netaxis.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





Would you be able to defend yourself if attacked on the street???

Hello, my name is David Vece and most people couldn't answer that question 
with any confidence.With todays crime rate and drug abuse problem, it's a
question that everyone needs to ask themselves. 

Crime statistics from the Bureau of Justice state that:

     -25% of violent crimes occur at or near the victim's home
     -14% at school and 12% at commercial establishments (stores)
     -A woman is raped every 2 minutes in America
     -1 out of every 4 rapes takes place in a public area or a parking 
      garage.
     -23% reported being involved with a leisure activity at the 
      time they were victimized.
     -21% reported they were at work or traveling to or from work
      when the crime occurred.
 
As you can see, a violent crime can happen to anyone at any time regardless 
of where you live or work. These crimes consisted of assault, robbery, 
carjacking, rape and murder. Based on these statistics, it's almost 
guaranteed that you will be the victim of a violent crime at some point
in your life.

Will you react????

I've been studying the martial arts for fifteen years and have been an
instructor for thirteen of them. I've been fortunate enough to have studied 
under some of the best instructors in the country. I currently have a black
belt in Kenpo Karate and have studied Tae Kwan Do, Kung Fu and I am
currently studying Hapkido and ISFA Shootfighting. 

My video, "A Chance to Escape", will show you how to defend yourself against
the seven most common types of attacks on the street. I will show you 
self defense techniques that anyone from ages eight to eighty can learn 
and use to defend themselves. These techniques are quick and easy to learn 
and can be the difference between life or death if you are attacked on 
the street.
 
My video uses easy to understand terms for younger children. This video is 
a MUST for any college student (male or female). The techniques in this 
video are not only good for self defense but for building confidence when 
out in public. Senior citizens and middle age adults will gain the most 
benefit from this video. It will also give you helpful hints on how to 
carry packages and purses so they won't get taken, how to avoid looking 
like a victim, and how to use common objects as weapons to fend off 
even the most aggressive attacker. 

With so many self defense videos on the market, it is about time that 
there was one made for people who want one simple and effective so they 
can actually use the techniques within minutes of learning them. The best 
part is that you won't have to study karate for fifteen years in order
to do these techniques. Just a few short minutes and you will understand
how effective you can be. When it comes right down to it, you are your
own best judge as to whether you feel safe or not. My video will help you
to feel that you have an edge on anyone who may try to attack you.  

It's impossible to know when or where a violent crime will happen and
the last thing you want to be is the victim. This video gives you the 
chance you need to react and avoid becoming a victim. All you really
 need is " A Chance to Escape."

To order my video "A Chance to Escape" send check or money order in 
U.S. funds only for $19.95+($4.95 S/H) to:

               Escape Enterprises
               P.O. Box  1657
               Meriden, CT.  06451

         Sorry, no COD's .     Please allow 2-3 weeks for delivery.
                      
              Don't be a victim - Fight back





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: mail@hk.super.net
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 15:01:13 -0700 (PDT)
To: mail@hk.super.net
Subject: Self Defense Video for All Ages - Male or Female
Message-ID: <199804172267PAA2626@post.netaxis.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





Would you be able to defend yourself if attacked on the street???

Hello, my name is David Vece and most people couldn't answer that question 
with any confidence.With todays crime rate and drug abuse problem, it's a
question that everyone needs to ask themselves. 

Crime statistics from the Bureau of Justice state that:

     -25% of violent crimes occur at or near the victim's home
     -14% at school and 12% at commercial establishments (stores)
     -A woman is raped every 2 minutes in America
     -1 out of every 4 rapes takes place in a public area or a parking 
      garage.
     -23% reported being involved with a leisure activity at the 
      time they were victimized.
     -21% reported they were at work or traveling to or from work
      when the crime occurred.
 
As you can see, a violent crime can happen to anyone at any time regardless 
of where you live or work. These crimes consisted of assault, robbery, 
carjacking, rape and murder. Based on these statistics, it's almost 
guaranteed that you will be the victim of a violent crime at some point
in your life.

Will you react????

I've been studying the martial arts for fifteen years and have been an
instructor for thirteen of them. I've been fortunate enough to have studied 
under some of the best instructors in the country. I currently have a black
belt in Kenpo Karate and have studied Tae Kwan Do, Kung Fu and I am
currently studying Hapkido and ISFA Shootfighting. 

My video, "A Chance to Escape", will show you how to defend yourself against
the seven most common types of attacks on the street. I will show you 
self defense techniques that anyone from ages eight to eighty can learn 
and use to defend themselves. These techniques are quick and easy to learn 
and can be the difference between life or death if you are attacked on 
the street.
 
My video uses easy to understand terms for younger children. This video is 
a MUST for any college student (male or female). The techniques in this 
video are not only good for self defense but for building confidence when 
out in public. Senior citizens and middle age adults will gain the most 
benefit from this video. It will also give you helpful hints on how to 
carry packages and purses so they won't get taken, how to avoid looking 
like a victim, and how to use common objects as weapons to fend off 
even the most aggressive attacker. 

With so many self defense videos on the market, it is about time that 
there was one made for people who want one simple and effective so they 
can actually use the techniques within minutes of learning them. The best 
part is that you won't have to study karate for fifteen years in order
to do these techniques. Just a few short minutes and you will understand
how effective you can be. When it comes right down to it, you are your
own best judge as to whether you feel safe or not. My video will help you
to feel that you have an edge on anyone who may try to attack you.  

It's impossible to know when or where a violent crime will happen and
the last thing you want to be is the victim. This video gives you the 
chance you need to react and avoid becoming a victim. All you really
 need is " A Chance to Escape."

To order my video "A Chance to Escape" send check or money order in 
U.S. funds only for $19.95+($4.95 S/H) to:

               Escape Enterprises
               P.O. Box  1657
               Meriden, CT.  06451

         Sorry, no COD's .     Please allow 2-3 weeks for delivery.
                      
              Don't be a victim - Fight back
i




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Dave Emery 
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 14:52:35 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Position escrow
Message-ID: <19980417175445.54922@die.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


	For those interested in the current state of position escrow
technology (AKA FCC mandated E-911 emergency call location reporting), 
the  April 1998 Issue of IEEE Communications Magazine is a special issue
devoted to the subject of locating cellphones and other personal
wireless devices that radiate rf.

	This technology, quietly ordered by the FCC, will measure the
location of a caller accurate to within 125 meters at least 67% of the
time.  And the industry seems to be moving toward DTOA and other passive
triangulation techniques rather than making cell phones simply contain a
GPS receiver. This of course means that the network will be able to
locate a cellphone whenever it radiates anything at all, rather than
asking it for its position only under certain emergency circumstances
such as an E-911 call. And all cell and PCS phones and some pagers can be
interrogated by the network and commanded to silently respond with a
registration message without user intervention or knowlage as part of
the mechanism by which the cell system locates the correct cell site to
put an incoming call for the phone on.  Thus passive tracking of the
location of  any cellphone that is turned on with 125 meter accuracy
will become a feature of most cell and PCS  networks, a feature 
presumably subject to at least some law enforcement access via the CALEA
mechanisms.

	And given that the cell and PCS systems will be capable of
such tracking, is there any reason to believe that law enforcement 
and other more shadowy groups won't find the necessary "terrorist, drug
dealer, etc" crisis to gain secret access to this capability ?

-- 
	Dave Emery N1PRE,  die@die.com  DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass. 
PGP fingerprint = 2047/4D7B08D1 DE 6E E1 CC 1F 1D 96 E2  5D 27 BD B0 24 88 C3 18





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Cereal Killer 
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 20:17:47 -0700 (PDT)
To: die@die.com
Subject: Re: Position escrow
In-Reply-To: <19980417175445.54922@die.com>
Message-ID: <35381AD3.1D10@dev.null>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Dave Emery, at Die!Die!Die!@die!die!die!.cum, wrote:
> 
>         For those interested in the current state of position escrow
> technology (AKA FCC mandated E-911 emergency call location reporting),
> the  April 1998 Issue of IEEE Communications Magazine is a special issue
> devoted to the subject of locating cellphones and other personal
> wireless devices that radiate rf.
> 
>         This of course means that the network will be able to
> locate a cellphone whenever it radiates anything at all, rather than
> asking it for its position only under certain emergency circumstances
> such as an E-911 call.

Does this mean that if a woman calls me in response to an ad I place
in a 'Personals' column, that I can track her down and rape and murder
her, even though she is using a mobile cellular phone for her own
protection?
Being a violent sexual pervert with a long history of sexual predetation
I can certaily vouch for the fact that having a hard-on with no victim
in sight is an emergency, regardless of whether or not THOSE CHEAP
WHORES ARE TRYING TO HIDE BEHIND THE PHYSICAL ANONYMITY OF A CELLULAR
PHONE!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thank Dog that those in charge of monitoring the F(ucking) 
C(ock-teasing) C(unts) using cellular phones are finally providing
myself and my cellmates with a way to locate THOSE STINKING BITCHES
AND MAKING THEM *PAY* FOR THE SINS OF *ALL* THE MOTHERS WHO LEAD
THEIR CHILDREN ON AND THEN REFUSE TO PUT OUT FOR THEM!!!!!

Sincerely,
Surreal Killer






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mixmaster 
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 22:06:37 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199804180450.VAA20286@sirius.infonex.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Saturday, April 18, 1998 - 00:02:36 MET (MeatSpace Eternal Time)

Prologue 17/0 -- SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS!!!

Yo PsychoPukes!

I am sending this alcoholonymously so that only those who are
connected to the ScotchServer will be able to transylvaniate
the chalice filled with the blood of my martyrdom and nibble
on the edge of the 'crackers' diagnosis of my body, in order
to Divine which porn-movie star I am currently channeling,
thus being able to monitor and properly categorize both the
level and quality of shit which I am about to spew forth in
yet another rambling diatribe on the various ways in which
my dichotomous insanities relate to crypto and privacy, and
are therefore relevant to the BikerSucks Distributors List.

Although I am capable of telling all manner of outrageous lies
under cover of my usurptation of the multi-user TruthMonger
persona, in my role as the pathetic, drunken ScotchMonger, I
am incapable of rising above any level beyond wallowing in
a self-pitying confession of moral failures and character
weaknesses which anyone with even a modicum of self-respect
would refrain from revealing to God, Himself, let alone to
God-and-Everybody.

The Dark Allies of the Oppresor (TM) have descended upon my
personage and taken a large byte out of my ass by wiping out
my WebSite and confiscating my computers, as well as those of
my guilty-bystander nephews.
As much as I would like to portray myself as a 'martyr for
the cause' of free speech and privacy, the whole affair pretty
much boils down to the fact that I am pretty much a mentally
deranged shit-disturber who would salute the flag and spend
my whole day singing 'God Save The Queen' if I was told that
it was illegal or socially unacceptable to do so.
Add to this the fact that I have long been involved in a variety
of illegal and illicit nefarious activities that I have little
capacity to understand, and I can pretty much be written off as
a sorry loser who pretty much deserves to be used as cannon
fodder in the war between those with connections to opposite
poles of the ClueServer.

In regard to the undeniable reality of being an ignorant schill
useful as a protective buffer between my Muppet Pastors and
Brogue Brothers willing Prawns, I can only say that I am proud
to have been able to offer my services as a loudmouth asshole
in the furtherance of a cause that it is beyond my intellectual
capacity to fully understand.

The Good News (TM) is that anyone reading this rambling, semi-
coherent missive can rest assured that the details of what I
am sharing have no need of embellishment, since I, myself, play
absolutely no part in my current role, being merely a sorry,
pathetic dupe of those whose mental faculties have not been
decimated by years of alcohol and drug abuse.
My career as an international recording artist and touring
musician was nothing more than a charade designed to disguise
my mental aberrations under the cover of an acceptable long-
haired country outlaw persona.
My career as 'The World's Foremost Computer Expert' was equally
a charade designed to disguise my technical and professional
incompetence under the cover of an image as an eccentric genius.

The foregoing being said, let me share with you a few things
which make me laugh until I pee my pants, drop my dime, and
mess my drawers.

Since the original release of 'The Xenix Chainsaw Massacre' in
1989, I have gathered a following of hackers, crackers, phreaks,
phracks, punks and mental cybermisfits that would provide a
lifetime of research for any psychologist whose goal was to 
study digitally-based insanity.
Recently, those who have spent years feeding me information to
be released on an "I don't have the foggiest idea what it means"
basis, went underground, for the most part, as  a result of a
variety of attacks directed toward them by those who wish to
control and manipulate each and every aspect of the Brave New
Digital World.

Nonetheless, today I got a syruptacious message from the grand
personage known only as the Evil-1, informing me that, although
the Usual Suspects involved in taking control of my InterNet
accounts have faded into the background, due to a sharp rise in
the monitoring of my account, unknown player/warriors have come
out of nowhere to throw a serious fuck into the ISP which so
high-handedly murdered my WebSite, without a single word of
explaination to myself or anyone else.
The Evil-1, sending me a private email (using the
SysAdmin account at the Well), informed me that some kind soul
has turned the programs used to surrupticiously monitor my 
email communications into global programs which perform the
same tasks on the account of each and every customer of my
ISP, thus tying their tubes in a knot that  cannot be undone
by anyone they have on staff, or by the professional computer
spooks that have been imported to build a coherent conspiracy
out of my mad ramblings.

As well, a dear lady friend (who has been instumental in making
the dev.null server a living reality for the better part of a
decade) informs me that a variety of hackers and crackers who
are only peripherally connected to the HyperPukes Distraught
Baleing-Twine List, seem to be involved in accessing my ISP's
computers to perform mysterious tasks that have purposes that
even she cannot divine, with the enormous amount of tools and
resources at her fingertips.
To quote her directly, "The esteemed Lost Alamo Boys and Girls
4-H(orsemen) Club is unanimous in their opinion that the highly
professional and superbly trained guerilla units of the Magic
Circle are in no way superior to the unknown entities currently
crawling out of disparate locations of the cyberwoodwork to
lend a confusing hand to a common goal which is shared by none
and championed by all."

In short, it seems be the general consensus among those who have
spent years dogging my CyberTrail as a result of my use as an
expendable schill suitable to act as a front-man/target for the
dissemination of innocuously dangerous manuscripts, that the
'creme de la creme' of ZOG's MeatSpace CyberGestapo is sucking
hind-tit to an untraceable, unorganized, Cult of One/Army of Dog
pseudo-phenomena that is very likely composed mostly of Doodze
and Doodzettes who spend more on Clearasil than the NSA and DOD
spend on computer security, combined.

Lest you, as a CypherPinko, think you can get away with dismissing
the preceding as the mad ramblings of a psychotic, drunken, mental
case under the influence of bizarre combinations of legal and 
illegal drugs (which is, actually, the case), stop and think about
the things that you, yourself, have done over the course of your 
career as a part-time miscreant, during which you have performed 
inexplicable feats of derring-do which were far beyond your 
capacity, given your technological expertise and experience, but 
which were brought to successful fruitation by virtue of the 
clarity of purpose and the strength of committment that you 
brought to the activity.
If you have made a habit of selling yourself short for your seeming
accomplishments because you convinced yourself that you, and your
accomplishments, are 'ordinary', then you need to review your life,
your actions, and your accomplishments, while keeping a Taoist eye
open, and a Taoist ear cocked, for the subtle signs of a Magic at
work which goes beyond Mathematics and steps into the arena where
Conscious Will defines the paridigms within which Reality is 
manifest according to the dictates of Dreams and Desire.

Despite my obvious dysfunctionality in a world which demands a strict
adherence to the Norm (TM), I reign supreme as a Prophet and Conspiracy
Theorist Extraordinaire.
"We make our Gods, and do battle with them...and they bless us."
~ Herman Hesse ~

Anyone who honestly researches the wildest of the claims made in
the 'True Story Of The InterNet' manuscripts will be able to prove
for themselves the reality of even the most preposterous of the
wild and weird pronouncements of collusion between a far-reaching
network of Circle of Eunuchs conspirators.
Those who check the details surrounding the warnings to Jim Bell
shortly before his persecution, the arrival of the son of gomez
on the doorstep of his mentor mere hours before gomez was cut
loose from a company he had founded a decade and a half earlier,
the synchonicitous messages from the L.M. Boyd sampler and the
A.Word.A.Day bulk emails mirroring releases of the 'True Story'
manuscripts, the coincidences of timing between major events in
the story of the Unabomber and the activities of the Author, ad
infinitum...
Those who diligently and honestly check the MeatSpace details
surrounding the space-time continuum of these events will be
left with no doubt that the true, discernable facts surrounding
the events are perfectly consistent with the claims of the
'True Story' manuscripts that there is an underground movement
in the computer industry which supports, confirms and enhances
the work of separate guerilla cells working independently, yet
within a concrete and discernable paradigm encompassing a 
common goal.

The Truth, The Whole Truth, And Nothing BUT The Truth:
[Note from the Otter: I have every reason to believe that
 I am currently 'marked for deletion' from the List (TM)
 of those whom the DickMongers can't be bothered butt-
 fucking just yet, so anyone who dares to suggest, in the
 remotest corner of their mind, that I have anything to
 be gained by embellishing or distorting the Truth in 
 regard to my most dearly held beliefs, based on my life
 experiences...can go fuck themselves.
 OTOH, anyone who wishes to discount what I am about to
 say on the basis that I am a drunken, psychotic drug-
 addict with a slim hold on Reality (TM) probably has
 a case that would hold up when pleaded before a jury
 of Phillip Hallam-Baker's peers.]

All of the wild and preposterous claims made in the
'True Story of the InterNet' manuscripts, in regard to 
the verifiable trails of intrigue connecting the Author
with the pesonages and events of a wide variety of 
deeply meaningful events in the battles between the
Forces of Light and the Forces of Darkness taking place
on the battlegrounds in Waco, Ruby Ridge, San Diego,
Sacramento, etc., etc., are Total HorseShit (TM) in
the world of MeatSpace, and Totally True (TM) in the
world of Reality (TM).
You see, Reality (TM) is nothing more nor less than 
the fulfillment of the totality of our individual 
thoughts, beliefs, hopes, dreams and actions. And the
Spheres of Reality encompass physical and virtual 
territories ranging from the MeatSpace and MindSpace
bounded by an individual Cult of One persona, to the
time-space continuum bounded by Infinity and Eternity.

In short, when the Author's missives are supported 
and confirmed by a web of totally unrelated facts and 
circumstances which consistently mirror the wild and
outlandish claims being made, it is because when any
living entity in the universe takes a step in a self-
willed direction, the underlying fabric of the Tao
changes shape to bring itself into alignment with the
consciously willed goal of that entity.

The True Battle (TM) taking place within the confines
of MeatSpace Reality is the battle of conscious, self-
willed individuals writing Reality Scripts capable of
balancing and/or overcoming the Generic Reality being
written by the more numerous Sheeple following the 
Scripts written by their Masters.
Women and men who consciously contribute to the daily
construction of Universal Reality influence the basic
structure of the Universe to a greater degree than 
a greater number of Sheeple who are heading in a 
different direction, but who scatter back and forth,
being kept only intermittently on course by the dogs
which nip at their heels.

"Let us each choose a Vision,
 Let us each choose a Dream.
 Let us each write a Chapter of Life,
 On our own Silver Screen."
~ 'You Can't Kill A Dream, Or A Dreamer', C.J. Parker

Anyone who wishes to join Tim May in dismissing the 
preceding as an example of laughable 'Magical Thinking"
having forgetten that Mr. May is simply a senile old 
fart who can't even find his shoes, is free to do so.
However, no amount of skepticism and derision will 
change the fact that the sincerely professed insanity
contained in the 'True Story' manuscripts lead to an
incontrivertable confirmation of their validity within
the confines of the MeatSpace time-space continuum 
running parallel to their release.

Anyone who wishes to avoid facing the reality of what
is being suggested in this rambling missive by a 
mentally unstable, alcoholic, drug-addicted terrorist
pedophile, in order to preserve the sanity that can
be maintained by dismissing the Truth when it leaks
from the lips of the deranged and depraved, should 
avoid reading the chapters of 'Space Aliens Hide My
Drugs' which lightly tread the boundaries of 
Biosemiotics.
Unfortunately, mathematics, biology, physics and 
psychology are rapidly converging around a model of
the universe which suggests that each and every 
entity capable of receiving, emitting, categorizing
and acting on information data and processes ranging
from the inherent structure of DNA to convoluted
discourses on Quantum Physics, is not just a 
'product' of its universal environment, but also an 
active 'creator' of that universal environment.

In short, though you may easily dismiss my wild 
claims that the ramblings of a mad Author are actively
creating the universe which you inhabit, it is highly
unlikely that you will be able to avoid the semi-
sensible posts of Jim Choate to the list concerning
those who are defining the new frontiers of science
with provable theories every bit as nonsensical as
those of Einstien, or be able to ignore the highly
organized trails of hard facts and figures provided
by John Young's website, confirming the bizarre 
reality of the Author's neurological nightmares and 
Choate's cutting-edge scientific dreams being brought
to fruitation and manifested in the established 
MeatSpace chronicles which Dr. Young provides for
the edification of unbelievers, during the functional
periods of lucidity he experiences in between his
mad rampages into the depths of drug-induced insanity.

In effect, those who fail to understand the true import
of the Biosemiotic basis of the conjoined evolution of
mind and matter are doomed to exit this life still
believing that they were predestined to become a 
side-pocket combination shot of Universal Fats, the
prime mover of all that exists, instead of realizing
that, at any point in time, they were free to change
the nature and direction of the Game (TM) by declaring,
"Damn the CueBall, full speed ahead!"

Uuhhh...I need a drink...






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 15:36:50 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: NoneRe: Gary Lee Burnore, Registered Sex Offender in Raleigh, NC
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199804172236.AAA05606@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Gary Lee Burnore  wrote:

> The anonymous asshole wrote:
> absolutly nothing of value.

But Gary Lee Burnore, the convicted pedophile, saw fit to comment anyway,
refuting his own claim.

> WHen are you going to learn that your lies won't work.  When will you
> admit what's really bothering you.  You're the dumbest form of terrorist
> there is.  What are your demands?  Betcha don'te even have any.  Your
> obsession with me shows with every post.  Shall I shit in a bucket and
> leave it outside for you to smell?  

No one is forcing you to reply if you think a post contain "nothing of
value".

Gee, Gary, it was the state of North Carolina that PUBLISHED your arrest
record for "indecent liberties with a minor" on its PUBLIC website.  Maybe
you ought to ask them for their "demands".  All I did was respond to a
NON-ANONYMOUS query by a hotmail.com user asking if the Gary Lee Burnore
that was ALREADY PUBLISHED on the NC website was you.

Only because you and your sock puppets chose to publicly comment is this
thread even continuing.  And consider the fact that most of the details,
such as the fact that the victim was a 17 year old female, and that you
were sleeping on the couch at her mother's home, came in a NON-ANONYMOUS
post from Camille Klein, who allegedly obtained this information from YOU.

I only GUESSED that the victim was the same one whose mother had earlier
been privately tipped off about you.  Even my knowledge that a whistle
blower was involved came from one of YOUR public posts.  Unless you've been
an overnight guest in the homes of several women in Santa Clara, each with
17 year old daughters, then you've provided more details than all the
anonymous posters put together have or even could have.

In your haste to make unproven accusations over a year ago against someone
who had public challenged you, you chose to post information that would
have otherwise been unavailable to the general public that would later
implicate you.

> A challenge to you anon asshole.  Prove what you say or shut the fuck up.
> Get the records from the Santa Clara County court.  PROVE who the victim
> is and what happened.  Prove you know who the mother of the victim is.
> Prove that I did what you claimed or shut the fuck up.

Make up your mind, Gary.  Have you molested more than one minor, giving you
doubts that I'm referring to the right one (since I've never named anyone)?
Why else would you ask me to prove that I know who the victim really is in
one paragraph, then complain that I'm "dragging the victim through the mud"
in the next?  How could I do the latter if I didn't really know who she
was?  If you're going to lie, you need to be a bit more consistent.

And, BTW, where did I claim that I knew the identities of either the victim
or of her mother?  All I've said is that the person who tipped them off
obviously did know that.  I wouldn't have even known that unless you'd
complained about it publicly.  You are the one that volunteered the
information that the victim had a web page at DataBasix, so if the victim
was identified in any way, it was by you.  Of all the 17 year old girls in
Santa Clara, saying that she had a web page at DataBasix sure narrows it
down, doesn't it?

And wouldn't it be a strange coincidence that you'd been accused of
molesting one teenage girl, allegedly falsely, and then you're later
convicted of molesting a totally different teenage girl of the same age,
living in the same city, and that you'd been an overnight guest in both
homes?  I do believe it was you who remarked a year ago that "there are too
many coincidences".

> The only things you've proven are that you'll go to any length to follow
> me and that you'll lie to try.  You've also proven that it's not about
> law, it's not about the victim (because you keep trying to drag the victim
> and her family through the mud to get to me), it's about you.  You were
> obviously embarassed by my posting of RFG's tax lein. Why? Are you he? Are
> you a relative?  Are you a business associate?   

No, but why let the facts spoil a perfectly good Burnorian fantasy?  You've
had a history of taking whoever pissed you off the most recently and
accusing him of all sorts of unproveable things.  Back when someone tipped
off the victim's mother via PRIVATE e-mail, YOU stated PUBLICLY that it was
"Ronald Francis".  That was the first public indication that there even was
a victim that you had molested!  You just unwittingly confirmed it by
complaining about the whistle blower in a public post.  The NC website is
just further confirmation, as is your own admission that the victim was a
17 year old female.

If you've got a beef against RFG, why not take it up with him?  You've got
his e-mail and snail mail addresses.  Why is it that you accuse others of
doing the very things that you do yourself?

If you really think that I'm "RFG", why did you post this publicly and not
e-mail it directly to him (allegedly me)?  Another hole in your paranoid
theory?

> It's clear by all you say
> that you're one of those.  You're also a coward.   You are afraid of the
> law because you know you've lied.  You're afraid of me because you won't
> meet me face to face.  

Anyone wishing to meet a convicted sex offender face to face is welcome to.
I'll decline your gracious invitation, thanks.  Anyone desiring to do so
can find your home address on the NC website.

> You're afraid of the truth because you hide behind
> a remailer and have NEVER ONCE posted ANY _E_V_E_D_I_N_C_E_ of your
> claims.
>
> Fortunately, after you posted the address and phone number of someone to
> the sex-marketplace groups you lost credibility.  Now you've lost even
> more.  You've actually lost it all. NO ONE of any value believes you. 
> Your lies are useless now because you've spouted for so long with no
> EVIDENCE. 

Your proof of who allegedly posted this information, a charge that you've
NEVER been able to document, is what?  If, as Belinda Bryan claimed, someone
obtained the names and addresses of *EVERY* client and employee of DataBasix
to usenet (which has never been proven), who do you suppose would be in a
position to obtain such information?

It looks like more dirty tricks by the DataBasix wrecking crew are in the
works, huh?  Anything to intimidate anyone who gets a little too close to
the truth about your activities.

> You're a useless piece of shit. You're a coward.  A raving fucking coward.
> So continue to post your bullshit.  It's become a joke that no one laughs
     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> at.  You're like the guy at the party with the lampshade on his head only
> everyone is laughing at you instead of with you.

How gracious of you, Gary.  Feel free to post your inane denials, too.

The drunk guy at the party with the lampshade will sober up.  A convicted
pervert and molester who preys un underage girls is a different story.  I
suspect that most parents would prefer to have "Mr.  Lamshade" in their
neighborhood to Fester the Molester.

> They don't call you the anonymous asshole for nothing.

"They"?  You and your sock puppets?  The truth hurts, doesn't it, Gary?

If you're going to whine that anonymous people are "assholes" just because
they'd prefer not to let a CONVICTED SEX OFFENDER know their identity and be
able to track down their home address where their children live, then you're
entitled to that self-serving opinion.

You're still pissed that someone anonymously tipped off your victim's
mother and high school principal, aren't you?  That's what started your
paranoid little vendetta against anonymous posters and remailers.

It's you that's making the accusations.  If you're saying someone is lying,
then prove it.  The people who have posted information have posted the URLs
from unbiased, third-party sites, including those of the state of North
Carolina.  The only rebuttal has been your own unsubstantiated claims.

Either the URL that has been posted as a reference is accurate, or else
this mythical "anon asshole" you've been whining about for nearly two years
has somehow infiltrated the San Francisco and Santa Clara police
departments, the victim and her mother, as well as the state of North
Carolina's registered sex offender website, created bogus arrest records,
forged a sex offender registration form, and surreptitiously taken the
mugshot just to make poor, innnocent Gary Lee Burnore look bad.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 19:56:16 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Dead Men Don't Wear Dentures! / Prologue 17/0 - SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS!!!
Message-ID: <199804180256.EAA16037@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Saturday, April 18, 1998 - 00:02:36 MET (MeatSpace Eternal Time)

Prologue 17/0 -- SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS!!!

Yo PsychoPukes!

I am sending this alcoholonymously so that only those who are
connected to the ScotchServer will be able to transylvaniate
the chalice filled with the blood of my martyrdom and nibble
on the edge of the 'crackers' diagnosis of my body, in order
to Divine which porn-movie star I am currently channeling,
thus being able to monitor and properly categorize both the
level and quality of shit which I am about to spew forth in
yet another rambling diatribe on the various ways in which
my dichotomous insanities relate to crypto and privacy, and
are therefore relevant to the BikerSucks Distributors List.

Although I am capable of telling all manner of outrageous lies
under cover of my usurptation of the multi-user TruthMonger
persona, in my role as the pathetic, drunken ScotchMonger, I
am incapable of rising above any level beyond wallowing in
a self-pitying confession of moral failures and character
weaknesses which anyone with even a modicum of self-respect
would refrain from revealing to God, Himself, let alone to
God-and-Everybody.

The Dark Allies of the Oppresor (TM) have descended upon my
personage and taken a large byte out of my ass by wiping out
my WebSite and confiscating my computers, as well as those of
my guilty-bystander nephews.
As much as I would like to portray myself as a 'martyr for
the cause' of free speech and privacy, the whole affair pretty
much boils down to the fact that I am pretty much a mentally
deranged shit-disturber who would salute the flag and spend
my whole day singing 'God Save The Queen' if I was told that
it was illegal or socially unacceptable to do so.
Add to this the fact that I have long been involved in a variety
of illegal and illicit nefarious activities that I have little
capacity to understand, and I can pretty much be written off as
a sorry loser who pretty much deserves to be used as cannon
fodder in the war between those with connections to opposite
poles of the ClueServer.

In regard to the undeniable reality of being an ignorant schill
useful as a protective buffer between my Muppet Pastors and
Brogue Brothers willing Prawns, I can only say that I am proud
to have been able to offer my services as a loudmouth asshole
in the furtherance of a cause that it is beyond my intellectual
capacity to fully understand.

The Good News (TM) is that anyone reading this rambling, semi-
coherent missive can rest assured that the details of what I
am sharing have no need of embellishment, since I, myself, play
absolutely no part in my current role, being merely a sorry,
pathetic dupe of those whose mental faculties have not been
decimated by years of alcohol and drug abuse.
My career as an international recording artist and touring
musician was nothing more than a charade designed to disguise
my mental aberrations under the cover of an acceptable long-
haired country outlaw persona.
My career as 'The World's Foremost Computer Expert' was equally
a charade designed to disguise my technical and professional
incompetence under the cover of an image as an eccentric genius.

The foregoing being said, let me share with you a few things
which make me laugh until I pee my pants, drop my dime, and
mess my drawers.

Since the original release of 'The Xenix Chainsaw Massacre' in
1989, I have gathered a following of hackers, crackers, phreaks,
phracks, punks and mental cybermisfits that would provide a
lifetime of research for any psychologist whose goal was to 
study digitally-based insanity.
Recently, those who have spent years feeding me information to
be released on an "I don't have the foggiest idea what it means"
basis, went underground, for the most part, as  a result of a
variety of attacks directed toward them by those who wish to
control and manipulate each and every aspect of the Brave New
Digital World.

Nonetheless, today I got a syruptacious message from the grand
personage known only as the Evil-1, informing me that, although
the Usual Suspects involved in taking control of my InterNet
accounts have faded into the background, due to a sharp rise in
the monitoring of my account, unknown player/warriors have come
out of nowhere to throw a serious fuck into the ISP which so
high-handedly murdered my WebSite, without a single word of
explaination to myself or anyone else.
The Evil-1, sending me a private email (using the
SysAdmin account at the Well), informed me that some kind soul
has turned the programs used to surrupticiously monitor my 
email communications into global programs which perform the
same tasks on the account of each and every customer of my
ISP, thus tying their tubes in a knot that  cannot be undone
by anyone they have on staff, or by the professional computer
spooks that have been imported to build a coherent conspiracy
out of my mad ramblings.

As well, a dear lady friend (who has been instumental in making
the dev.null server a living reality for the better part of a
decade) informs me that a variety of hackers and crackers who
are only peripherally connected to the HyperPukes Distraught
Baleing-Twine List, seem to be involved in accessing my ISP's
computers to perform mysterious tasks that have purposes that
even she cannot divine, with the enormous amount of tools and
resources at her fingertips.
To quote her directly, "The esteemed Lost Alamo Boys and Girls
4-H(orsemen) Club is unanimous in their opinion that the highly
professional and superbly trained guerilla units of the Magic
Circle are in no way superior to the unknown entities currently
crawling out of disparate locations of the cyberwoodwork to
lend a confusing hand to a common goal which is shared by none
and championed by all."

In short, it seems be the general consensus among those who have
spent years dogging my CyberTrail as a result of my use as an
expendable schill suitable to act as a front-man/target for the
dissemination of innocuously dangerous manuscripts, that the
'creme de la creme' of ZOG's MeatSpace CyberGestapo is sucking
hind-tit to an untraceable, unorganized, Cult of One/Army of Dog
pseudo-phenomena that is very likely composed mostly of Doodze
and Doodzettes who spend more on Clearasil than the NSA and DOD
spend on computer security, combined.

Lest you, as a CypherPinko, think you can get away with dismissing
the preceding as the mad ramblings of a psychotic, drunken, mental
case under the influence of bizarre combinations of legal and 
illegal drugs (which is, actually, the case), stop and think about
the things that you, yourself, have done over the course of your 
career as a part-time miscreant, during which you have performed 
inexplicable feats of derring-do which were far beyond your 
capacity, given your technological expertise and experience, but 
which were brought to successful fruitation by virtue of the 
clarity of purpose and the strength of committment that you 
brought to the activity.
If you have made a habit of selling yourself short for your seeming
accomplishments because you convinced yourself that you, and your
accomplishments, are 'ordinary', then you need to review your life,
your actions, and your accomplishments, while keeping a Taoist eye
open, and a Taoist ear cocked, for the subtle signs of a Magic at
work which goes beyond Mathematics and steps into the arena where
Conscious Will defines the paridigms within which Reality is 
manifest according to the dictates of Dreams and Desire.

Despite my obvious dysfunctionality in a world which demands a strict
adherence to the Norm (TM), I reign supreme as a Prophet and Conspiracy
Theorist Extraordinaire.
"We make our Gods, and do battle with them...and they bless us."
~ Herman Hesse ~

Anyone who honestly researches the wildest of the claims made in
the 'True Story Of The InterNet' manuscripts will be able to prove
for themselves the reality of even the most preposterous of the
wild and weird pronouncements of collusion between a far-reaching
network of Circle of Eunuchs conspirators.
Those who check the details surrounding the warnings to Jim Bell
shortly before his persecution, the arrival of the son of gomez
on the doorstep of his mentor mere hours before gomez was cut
loose from a company he had founded a decade and a half earlier,
the synchonicitous messages from the L.M. Boyd sampler and the
A.Word.A.Day bulk emails mirroring releases of the 'True Story'
manuscripts, the coincidences of timing between major events in
the story of the Unabomber and the activities of the Author, ad
infinitum...
Those who diligently and honestly check the MeatSpace details
surrounding the space-time continuum of these events will be
left with no doubt that the true, discernable facts surrounding
the events are perfectly consistent with the claims of the
'True Story' manuscripts that there is an underground movement
in the computer industry which supports, confirms and enhances
the work of separate guerilla cells working independently, yet
within a concrete and discernable paradigm encompassing a 
common goal.

The Truth, The Whole Truth, And Nothing BUT The Truth:
[Note from the Otter: I have every reason to believe that
 I am currently 'marked for deletion' from the List (TM)
 of those whom the DickMongers can't be bothered butt-
 fucking just yet, so anyone who dares to suggest, in the
 remotest corner of their mind, that I have anything to
 be gained by embellishing or distorting the Truth in 
 regard to my most dearly held beliefs, based on my life
 experiences...can go fuck themselves.
 OTOH, anyone who wishes to discount what I am about to
 say on the basis that I am a drunken, psychotic drug-
 addict with a slim hold on Reality (TM) probably has
 a case that would hold up when pleaded before a jury
 of Phillip Hallam-Baker's peers.]

All of the wild and preposterous claims made in the
'True Story of the InterNet' manuscripts, in regard to 
the verifiable trails of intrigue connecting the Author
with the pesonages and events of a wide variety of 
deeply meaningful events in the battles between the
Forces of Light and the Forces of Darkness taking place
on the battlegrounds in Waco, Ruby Ridge, San Diego,
Sacramento, etc., etc., are Total HorseShit (TM) in
the world of MeatSpace, and Totally True (TM) in the
world of Reality (TM).
You see, Reality (TM) is nothing more nor less than 
the fulfillment of the totality of our individual 
thoughts, beliefs, hopes, dreams and actions. And the
Spheres of Reality encompass physical and virtual 
territories ranging from the MeatSpace and MindSpace
bounded by an individual Cult of One persona, to the
time-space continuum bounded by Infinity and Eternity.

In short, when the Author's missives are supported 
and confirmed by a web of totally unrelated facts and 
circumstances which consistently mirror the wild and
outlandish claims being made, it is because when any
living entity in the universe takes a step in a self-
willed direction, the underlying fabric of the Tao
changes shape to bring itself into alignment with the
consciously willed goal of that entity.

The True Battle (TM) taking place within the confines
of MeatSpace Reality is the battle of conscious, self-
willed individuals writing Reality Scripts capable of
balancing and/or overcoming the Generic Reality being
written by the more numerous Sheeple following the 
Scripts written by their Masters.
Women and men who consciously contribute to the daily
construction of Universal Reality influence the basic
structure of the Universe to a greater degree than 
a greater number of Sheeple who are heading in a 
different direction, but who scatter back and forth,
being kept only intermittently on course by the dogs
which nip at their heels.

"Let us each choose a Vision,
 Let us each choose a Dream.
 Let us each write a Chapter of Life,
 On our own Silver Screen."
~ 'You Can't Kill A Dream, Or A Dreamer', C.J. Parker

Anyone who wishes to join Tim May in dismissing the 
preceding as an example of laughable 'Magical Thinking"
having forgetten that Mr. May is simply a senile old 
fart who can't even find his shoes, is free to do so.
However, no amount of skepticism and derision will 
change the fact that the sincerely professed insanity
contained in the 'True Story' manuscripts lead to an
incontrivertable confirmation of their validity within
the confines of the MeatSpace time-space continuum 
running parallel to their release.

Anyone who wishes to avoid facing the reality of what
is being suggested in this rambling missive by a 
mentally unstable, alcoholic, drug-addicted terrorist
pedophile, in order to preserve the sanity that can
be maintained by dismissing the Truth when it leaks
from the lips of the deranged and depraved, should 
avoid reading the chapters of 'Space Aliens Hide My
Drugs' which lightly tread the boundaries of 
Biosemiotics.
Unfortunately, mathematics, biology, physics and 
psychology are rapidly converging around a model of
the universe which suggests that each and every 
entity capable of receiving, emitting, categorizing
and acting on information data and processes ranging
from the inherent structure of DNA to convoluted
discourses on Quantum Physics, is not just a 
'product' of its universal environment, but also an 
active 'creator' of that universal environment.

In short, though you may easily dismiss my wild 
claims that the ramblings of a mad Author are actively
creating the universe which you inhabit, it is highly
unlikely that you will be able to avoid the semi-
sensible posts of Jim Choate to the list concerning
those who are defining the new frontiers of science
with provable theories every bit as nonsensical as
those of Einstien, or be able to ignore the highly
organized trails of hard facts and figures provided
by John Young's website, confirming the bizarre 
reality of the Author's neurological nightmares and 
Choate's cutting-edge scientific dreams being brought
to fruitation and manifested in the established 
MeatSpace chronicles which Dr. Young provides for
the edification of unbelievers, during the functional
periods of lucidity he experiences in between his
mad rampages into the depths of drug-induced insanity.

In effect, those who fail to understand the true import
of the Biosemiotic basis of the conjoined evolution of
mind and matter are doomed to exit this life still
believing that they were predestined to become a 
side-pocket combination shot of Universal Fats, the
prime mover of all that exists, instead of realizing
that, at any point in time, they were free to change
the nature and direction of the Game (TM) by declaring,
"Damn the CueBall, full speed ahead!"

Uuhhh...I need a drink...






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ArmedThugs Remailer
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 13:57:24 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Kalifornia Scoffs at Privacy for Minors
Message-ID: <199804182057.OAA17823@harrier.sasknet.sk.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Eric Cordian wrote:

> In a country where anyone under 18 may have their dissent against a
> parent medicalized, and be imprisoned indefinitely in a concentration
> camp in Jamaica or Samoa.  In a country where a first grader can be
> prosecuted for giving a lemon drop to a friend.  Well, it's just not
> too surprising that the courts now have the balls to openly reduce
> minors to the official status of owned automatons, whose feelings,
> relationships, and artistic expression are the mere mimickry of the
> genuine such gifts of their adult masters.
 
> Yet the disingenuous search for "reasons" for armed attacks by youth
> against adult authority figures continues.

The Senseless Violence Faction of the Army of Dog has awarded 
Hero of the Revolution medals to the two little warriors in
Jonesboro who had the common sense to arm themselves with the
same types of MeatSpace weaponry used by the Dangerous Armed
Thugs who enforce the unconstitutional laws making the common
citizen a state-owned piece of property from the moment they
are stamped with their SSN at birth.

Delivery-room physicians no longer slap the newborn on the
butt with their hand, they now stamp it with a government
issued bar-code branding device.

Persona Abortion is murder, and the ringleaders and soldiers
working in government-funded Persona Abortion clinics are
guilty of WhoreCrimes under the rules and guidelines of the 
Mongeritaville Organized Government Crimes Commission.
Army of Dog martyrs who die of renal bleeding from blowing 
a Ryder rental truck axle out their asshole, while farting in 
the face of their oppressors, go to the CoalDust Saloon in
Bienfait, Saskatchwan, after they 'pass on' (pun intended),
and get to drink scotch and Pilsner beer for Eternity.

Beer&BloodMonger
"One body...one scotch and one beer."
~George ThoroBlood





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: WagonBurner ReSmoker
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 13:57:26 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: *** ALERT *** / The LIST !!!
Message-ID: <199804182057.OAA17830@harrier.sasknet.sk.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


~
	*** ALERT ***
	-------------

With the theft of Toto 's computer by Canadian
Customs OffalSirs, the apparent theft of Toto's WebSite by Sympatico 
AdminiStrafers, the theft of the computer of Toto's nephew, Human
Gus-Peter, the SpaceShip Cowboy, by armed thugs fitting the description
of the Royal PainAssIn Mounted PoLice, and the theft and photocopying
of various written materials in Toto's possession, including notes on
the unfinished 'SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS!!!' manuscript, those 
connected in any way with Toto and Human Gus-Peter should consider
themselves be on The LIST (TM).

  Those who have been following the March of Dimes legislation and
regulations, in which those who are in no danger of 'dropping their 
dime' are spreading the cheeks of the Dime Challenged and recording
their findings, are likely to already be aware that Webster's New
Collegiate Dictionary has announced that, in future editions, the
word 'list' will be defined as singular and completely capitalized,
with the plural form, 'lists,' being noted as an anachronism based
on a time in history when data and information was distributed among
a variety of locations around the globe, instead of in a single,
gigantic database.

  Although Toto is in the process of recreating, as completely as
possible, The LIST (TM) of those who have reason to fear their
inclusion on The LIST (TM) as a result of her being forced by
armed MeatSpace borderguards to 'assume the position,' it should
be noted that the Inquisitors seemed particularly interested in
material connecting Toto and his associates with a group of
BioWar Fair terrorists known to have been involved with an attack
on Boston Harbor, using an organically based toxin, and the
subsequent murder of representatives of the British Crown during
the lawful exercise of their duties.
  Anyone having any information or literature that may connect
them to those terrorists, or to any of the organizations which
they founded or joined, should immediately encrypt or destroy
that information or literature. As well, it would be wise for
everyone to avoid drawing any type of attention to themselves
by engaging in recognition or celebration of "Patriot's Day,"
which would mark them as fitting the profile of those already
known to be associated with the forementioned terrorists.

  Until Toto finishes compiling the identity-numbers of those
who may presume themselves to be on The LIST (TM) as a result
of her cavity search, anyone reading this should automatically
assume that they are on The LIST (TM).
  In fact, given the serious implications connected with being
on The LIST (TM), as evidenced by a multitude of examples of
the persecution and oppression of those on lesser Lists over
the course of history, it would be wise to assume that *YOU*
are on the list if you meet any of the conditions of the
following Profile:

	The LIST (TM) Profile
	---------------------

1. (a) Born
   (b) Stillborn
   (c) Conceived

2. (a) Breathing
   (b) Formerly breathing
   (c) Umbilical links to a breather

3. (a) Existing
   (b) Formerly existing
   (c) Glinting

[Please Note:] Receipt of any snailmail or email containg the words,
               "How To Make BIG $$$, Sitting At Home Licking Your
               Own Dick/Clit," should be taken as hard evidence that
               you are already on The LIST (TM).





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: DiamndJ63 
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 23:28:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: You are entitled to a FREE Membership.
Message-ID: <9f558f66.35399425@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

 


To: DiamndJ63@aol.com
Subject: You are entitled to a FREE Membership.
From: DiamndJ63 
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 02:02:02 EDT
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Click here to see naked
women




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 1Lqz6S4j2@hjdyfu88.com
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 07:50:55 -0700 (PDT)
To: friend@woe4yemail.com
Subject: This on gets in, anytime, anywhere
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



We've seen them all come and go: Stealth, Rapid Fire, Express Mail,
Desktop, Net Contact, Mach 10, Email Platinum and the list goes on and
on. They work for a while and then they stop working. Oh you can still
get a small percentage of your mail delivered to some place but it is
hardly worth the trouble. 

Well here's one that's been around quite a while working the whole way
through, never stopped getting in anywhere. It's called Mail Pusher.Mail
Pusher reminds me of the old days you know when CD ROM addresses worked.

How Does Mail Pusher work?
Think of it as a super randomizer - It randomizes four fields:
User Name, Domain Name from a list of domains you input, Subject Header
from a list of subject headers you create, and message ID #. This is
more randomizers than any other program has.
It gets in - Anyplace - Anytime, 100%.

What Else does it do:

Server Speedometer - It has a gauge to test server names and even has a
speedometer to tell you how fast the server is functioning at the time.

Auto Reconnect - If you lose your internet dial in connection the
program will automatically dial back in for you and it freezes the
program where it left off until it gets online again and then resumes
sending from where it left off. If you lose a mail server connection it
will also reconnect and resume from where it left off. You can actually
leave the computer running unattended and then come back later knowing
your mail would go out just as if you sat there and watched it all night
long.

Changes While Sending - You can add servers, drop servers, stop some or
all servers freezing the sending of the list in a way that allows the
software to begin from where it stopped at the click of the mouse.

Full Screen Notepad - Write your messages using a full size screen.

There are even more features than this. We even have a functioning demo
that let's you send a few thousand pieces of mail.

The Cost - $395

The alternative - Forget about getting your mail in.

What to do next:

Call: 1 (800) 942-7913

Leave your name and number and we will promptly call you back.
If you want a demo leave in addition to your name and phone an email
address. 

We do have dealer Opportunities Available. To be a dealer one must first
purchase a registered copy of Mail Pusher at retail. All dealers do
their own support.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 00:52:13 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: CA$H REWARD !
Message-ID: <199804190752.JAA27012@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


~
                    WANTED / DEAD OR ALIVE!


I will pay a CA$H REWARD for the capture of the Armed Thugs who broke
into my Bienfait residence and stole a variety of computer items,
including a computer, computer peripherals and personal documents.

The CA$H REWARD will be also be paid if those recovering the stolen
items are forced to engage in actions of self-defense, resulting in the
death of the criminals.

Witnesses report that the perpetrators of the crime were dressed to
resemble members of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, were heavily
armed, and appeared willing to violently attack anyone interfering with
their criminal activity. Their audacity in perpetrating the crime in
broad daylight indicates that they are professional criminals with
little regard for the consequences of their actions.

Suggestions that those of  Native Ancestry would 'Shoot first, and ask
questions later.' should probably be ignored, since it is unlikely that
common criminals harbor the same propensity for  racial violence that is
exhibited by legitimate members of the RCMP.

Any person or persons engaging in the capture of the criminals and the
recovery of the stolen property should take care to avoid violating the
legal or  Charter Rights of the criminals, unless said person or persons
are representatives of an officially recognized law enforcement agency.

                     For Further Information
            Contact: Toto 






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Gilmore 
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 13:43:23 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com, gnu
Subject: "Lawful access" vs warrants:  I found the difference today!
Message-ID: <199804192043.NAA18656@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Remember how in the Clipper debate, the government insisted on using
the term "lawful access" when talking about what the government had to
do to get keys out?  They implied it meant a warrant issued by a
judge, but actually the proposed rules said any "lawful access" would
do.  That phrase kept reappearing in government proposals.

I've been looking for years in the laws to find what secret loophole
they've been trying to protect.  Today I ran across it!

It's Executive Order 12333, signed by our favorite senile president,
Ronald Reagan, in 1981.  It says:

    2.5 Attorney General Approval.  The Attorney General hereby is
    delegated the power to approve the use for intelligence purposes,
    within the United States or against a United States person abroad,
    of any technique for which a warrant would be required if
    undertaken for law enforcement purposes, provided that such
    techniques shall not be undertaken unless the Attorney General has
    determined in each case that there is probable cause to believe
    that the technique is directed against a foreign power or an agent
    of a foreign power. Electronic surveillance, as defined in the
    Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978, shall be conducted
    in accordance with that Act, as well as this Order.

In other words, if the Attorney General claims that someone is an
agent of a foreign power, no warrants are needed; the target has no
Constitutional rights any more:

    Fourth Amendment

    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses,
    papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures,
    shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon
    probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly
    describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to
    be seized.

You will recall that the Attorney General made exactly this claim
about Martin Luther King (that he was an agent of a foreign power), to
justify the years of FBI surveillance.  For all we know, they have
been claiming that anyone who advocates crypto legalization must be
an agent of a foreign power.  It really wouldn't surprise me.

We shouldn't stop looking for more loopholes -- they may have several --
but I think this is the big one.

	John




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 14:48:06 -0700 (PDT)
To: John Gilmore 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980419144630.0084d100@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 01:43 PM 4/19/98 -0700, John Gilmore gnu@toad.com wrote:
>It's Executive Order 12333, signed by our favorite senile president,
>Ronald Reagan, in 1981.  It says:
Reagan wasn't senile yet in 81.  :-)  But yes, it's scary.

>In other words, if the Attorney General claims that someone is an
>agent of a foreign power, no warrants are needed; the target has no
>Constitutional rights any more:
...
>You will recall that the Attorney General made exactly this claim
>about Martin Luther King (that he was an agent of a foreign power), to
>justify the years of FBI surveillance.  For all we know, they have
>been claiming that anyone who advocates crypto legalization must be
>an agent of a foreign power.  It really wouldn't surprise me.

Even though there basically aren't any foreign Commies left any more,
there's always The Pope, and Zionism, and Foreign Drug Cartels, and 
foreign embassies*, and foreign-based MultiNational Corporations, 
and people with accounts in Swiss banks or Anguillan computers.  
Power isn't just for governments any more.

Anarchists distinctly don't work for foreign powers, but it's
close enough for government work.

And more importantly, if by Executive Order, the President
claims that granting the executive branch "access"
to things makes it "lawful", then nobody's safe from fiat law.

~~~
* If they clue in to Elgoland and Vargaland, some of us could
be in Big Trouble :-)
~~~
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 15:03:42 -0700 (PDT)
To: Bill Stewart 
Subject: Re: "Lawful access" vs warrants:  I found the difference today!
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980419144630.0084d100@popd.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <199804192203.SAA21333@users.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In <3.0.5.32.19980419144630.0084d100@popd.ix.netcom.com>, on 04/19/98 
   at 02:46 PM, Bill Stewart  said:

>And more importantly, if by Executive Order, the President
>claims that granting the executive branch "access"
>to things makes it "lawful", then nobody's safe from fiat law.

We haven't been safe from Royal^H^H^H^H^H Presidential Decree in a very
long time (pre Franklin "Dictator for Life" Roosevelt).


- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgp.html
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: OS/2 means...CURTAINS for Windows!

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: designagreatwebsite2@mailcity.com
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 16:28:08 -0700 (PDT)
To: designagreatwebsite2@mailcity.com
Subject: Build a Web Site - Free test drive, tell a friend!
Message-ID: <23195610_9979728>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 63595.Casino.Junket.Manager@cygnus.com
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 23:06:48 -0700 (PDT)
To: Client@cygnus.com
Subject: Las Vegas Vacation For $25
Message-ID: <199804200606.XAA06086@cygint.cygnus.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: owner-cypherpunks
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 00:42:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: *Four Very Hot Services*
Message-ID: <199804200742.AAA06819@cygint.cygnus.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





#1   24 HOUR GAY TV ON YOUR COMPUTER SCREEN

http://www.buzzlink.com/gtv/mgl

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bienfait Nutly News 
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 07:16:47 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Epilogue 1/0 -- SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS!!!
Message-ID: <353B5993.2C12@dev.null>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


[BIENFAIT NUTLY NEWS-MongerItaville,Co1]REPORTWHORES FOR the Bienfait
Nutly News spent the night in drunken, drug-crazed revelry at the home
of A DANGEROUSLY CRAZED VIOLENT PSYCHO KILLER TO BE NAMED LATER, while
waiting for the CoalDust Saloon to open for the day so that they could
celebrate the 'Pull-It,Sir Prize' they are certain to be awarded by
UNCLAD-PuN* for their contributions to the Bienfait Nutly News Special,
entitled '!!!KILL THE CHILDREN!!!
* Union for Naked Child Love & Death - Pedophiles und Necrophiles

Bubba Rom Dos, a fictional character from 'The True Story of the
InterNet' manuscripts being circulated by an underground computer cult
gratefully deadicated to the memory of Jerry Garcia, rode into Bienfait
on a Pink Elephant about 6 a.m., as the ninth case of beer bit the dust
and the rosy pink cheeks of the sonofgomez began peeking slowly under
the whore rising to meet the thick, dark fog lingering in her mind from
the pill that had been slipped into her drink at bar-closing time the
night before.
"Onward through the Fog!" she mumbled, as she was handed her first
offical bong of the same-new-day by Oat Willie. She had just a couple of
hours to get home and get ready for another dreary day at the
Junior-High ten KILLometers down the road, in Estevan. She saw Bubba Rom
Dos slowly appearing out of the fog and wisely turned so that her butt
was up against the wall she was using for balance.

The drunken whord of Nutly News reportwhores, gathered from around the
world for the illustrious occassion, took the appearance of Bubba,
widely known as a crazed, drunken pedophile representing a long lineage
of voices barfing in the wilderness, to mean that the BNN promotional
announcement (cleverly disguised as a news story) was about to come to
an end, and it was time to begin the serious work of actually writing
the News Special, which was thus far only a vague concept consisting of
ludicrous ideas thrown out at random during a series of mumbled and
slurred, semi-incoherent ramblings in between hashish-induced laughing
spasms, munchies attacks, and pissing contests of both a physical and
conceptual nature.
"I guess it's time to put in that right-square bracket." Defcon
McCullagh Chainsaw informed the Author. 
"What the hell is it really called?" the Author asked, causing the
gathered reportwhores to pause whatever they were doing and search their
minds for the proper word, or wonder if it wasn't just called, 'the
right-square bracket.' The attempted mental exercise was to little
avail, since the MongerItaville official motto is, "It's always drunkest
just before dawn." and they quickly found themselves sucked into the
Grateful Void in which one realizes that the Grateful Secret Of Life is
properly balancing one's drug intake and proceeds to slowly suck on a
fresh beer to counter the effects of the last bong.

The Author surveyed the suddenly serious somber scribes, and quiety
ended the promotional announcement disguised as a news report by typing
a]





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 05:23:18 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: GSM Security Study
Message-ID: <199804201223.IAA28184@camel8.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


The GSM consortium claims that the recent cloning was not 
actually cloning, that the SIM crack was not news, that it is 
ridiculous to claim that US intelligence deliberately crippled A5, 
and that customers should not be alarmed:

   http://jya.com/gsm042098.txt

To assess this spin we offer extracts of a 1998 GSM System 
Security Study:

   http://jya.com/gsm061088.htm  (44K + 3 images)






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 10:27:16 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: speech that aids and abets does "not enjoy the protection of the First Amendment."
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980420102738.007c1510@otc.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



The Supremes let stand civil charges against a publisher for information 
they published.  

Crypto relevance:  some kidnapping/propoganda victim sues a
ThoughtMonger...   



Supreme Court Won't Review Murder Manual Case

http://dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/top_stories/story.html?s=z/reuters/9804
20/news/stories/murder_2.html

choice excerpts:

The central legal question, as previously defined by the Supreme Court in a
landmark First Amendment ruling, is whether an entity, in distributing
information in a general way, can be found to have advocated or incited
lawless action. 
...
Appeals Court Judge J. Michael Luttig wrote in the ruling that Paladin may
be held liable because speech that aids and abets does "not enjoy the
protection of the First Amendment." 


------------------------------------------------------------
      David Honig                   Orbit Technology
     honig@otc.net                  Intaanetto Jigyoubu

Clarke's Third Law: Any sufficiently advanced technology is
indistinguishable from magic.

	










	















From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 08:08:22 -0700 (PDT)
To: Recipient List Suppressed:;
Subject: DCSB: Donald Eastlake; "The Internet Open Trading Protocol"
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



--- begin forwarded text


X-Sender: rah@pop.sneaker.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 10:28:23 -0400
To: dcsb@ai.mit.edu, dcsb-announce@ai.mit.edu
From: Robert Hettinga 
Subject: DCSB: Donald Eastlake; "The Internet Open Trading Protocol"
Cc: "Donald E. Eastlake 3rd" ,
        "Michael S. Baum" ,
        Jeremey Barrett ,
        Rodney Thayer 
Sender: bounce-dcsb@ai.mit.edu
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: Robert Hettinga 

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

               The Digital Commerce Society of Boston

                            Presents

                       Donald Eastlake 3rd
                         Cybercash, Inc.

                The Internet Open Trading Protocol

                      Tuesday, May 5, 1997
                             12 - 2 PM
                 The Downtown Harvard Club of Boston
                   One Federal Street, Boston, MA




The Internet Open Trading Protocol provides an interoperable
framework for Internet commerce.  It is payment system independent
and will be able to encapsulate payment systems such as SET, Mondex,
CyberCash, DigiCash, GeldKarte, etc.  IOTP is able to handle cases
where such roles as the merchant, the payment handler, the
deliverer of goods or services, and the provider of customer support
are performed by different parties or by one party.  See
.

Donald Eastlake 3rd is a Principal Systems Engineer at CyberCash, Inc.
before which he was in the Pathworks network group at Digital Equipment
Corporation.  At CyberCash, he helped design the "CyberCash message format"
documented in RFC 2898 and implemented the library routines that support
them. He also architected and did the preliminary implementation of
CyberCash's SET implementation.  He is active in IETF standards efforts and
is currently the document editor for the IETF DNS security working group
including RFCs 2065 and 2137.


[Moderator's note: Unfortunately, Jeremey Barrett of BlueMoney,
the speaker originally scheduled for May, found himself unable
do so this month. We are in the process of rescheduling his
talk on digital bearer settlement for a later date. Our
apologies for any inconvenience this may cause.

The DCSB Program Committee thanks Mr. Eastlake for coming
forward on such short notice with such a splendid replacement
topic.]



This meeting of the Digital Commerce Society of Boston will be held on
Tuesday, May 5, 1997, from 12pm - 2pm at the Downtown Branch of the
Harvard Club of Boston, on One Federal Street. The price for lunch is
$32.50. This price includes lunch, room rental, various A/V hardware, and
the speaker's lunch. ;-).  The Harvard Club *does* have dress code: jackets
and ties for men (and no sneakers or jeans), and "appropriate business
attire" (whatever that means), for women.  Fair warning: since we purchase
these luncheons in advance, we will be unable to refund the price of your
lunch if the Club finds you in violation of the dress code.

We will attempt to record this meeting and put it on the web in RealAudio
format at some future date

We need to receive a company check, or money order, (or, if we *really*
know you, a personal check) payable to "The Harvard Club of Boston", by
Saturday, May 2nd, or you won't be on the list for lunch.  Checks
payable to anyone else but The Harvard Club of Boston will have to be
sent back.

Checks should be sent to Robert Hettinga, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston,
Massachusetts, 02131. Again, they *must* be made payable to "The Harvard
Club of Boston", in the amount of $32.50. Please include your e-mail
address, so that we can send you a confirmation

If anyone has questions, or has a problem with these arrangements (We've
had to work with glacial A/P departments more than once, for instance),
please let us know via e-mail, and we'll see if we can work something
out.

Upcoming speakers for DCSB are:

June      Michael Baum        PKI Requirements from a
                               Commercial CA's Perspective
July      Rodney Thayer       IPSEC and Digital Commerce
TBA       Jeremey Barrett     Digital Bearer Settlement


We are actively searching for future speakers.  If you are in Boston on
the first Tuesday of the month, and you would like to make a
presentation to the Society, please send e-mail to the DCSB Program
Commmittee, care of Robert Hettinga,  .

For more information about the Digital Commerce Society of Boston, send
"info dcsb" in the body of a message to  .
If you want to subscribe to the DCSB e-mail list, send "subscribe dcsb" in
the body of a message to  .

We look forward to seeing you there!

Cheers,
Robert Hettinga
Moderator,
The Digital Commerce Society of Boston


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-----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
To unsubscribe from this list, send a letter to: Majordomo@ai.mit.edu
In the body of the message, write:  unsubscribe dcsb-announce
Or, to subscribe,           write:  subscribe dcsb-announce
If you have questions, write to me at Owner-DCSB@ai.mit.edu

--- end forwarded text



-----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bienfait Nutly News 
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 10:42:51 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Epilogue 2/0 -- SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS!!!
Message-ID: <353B8956.56B9@dev.null>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Epilogue 2/0 - SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS!!!
_____________________________________________

		*** BIENFAIT NUTLY NEWS SPECIAL ***
	
		               **********************
		         *** KILL THE CHILDREN !!! ***
		               **********************

Introduction By:
A DANGEROUSLY CRAZED VIOLENT PSYCHO KILLER TO BE NAMED LATER

  It is with great fondness and trepidation that I recall the wonderful
summer days spent on the ball diamonds of Austin, Texas, in the late
1970's.
  Behind the dugout, under the stands, sharing a quick toke with other
members of Armadillo World HeadQuarters' jock-supporters--fans and
players of the legendary PSYCHO KILLERS, widely recognized as the most
dangerous-to-themselves opponents in the history of the Grand Game, no
matter where or how it was played.
  Slapping David Byrne upside his Talking Head for Bogarting the Belushi
and then realizing that his momentary lapse in proper drug-addict
ettiquette was a result of his attention being rivetted to some
terrifying incident of reality taking place out on the ball diamond.
  Seeing the outfielder nonchalantly digging his toe in the dirt at the
edge of the infield as a conference took place on the pitcher's mound
between the other members of the Austin Police Department ball team.
Watching in horror as the outline of a small finger could be seen poking
out from the dirt as the outfielder prodded his spiked toe in the dirt,
and then watching it being covered again, as he unconsciously tapped it
back down in the dirt.
  Knowing that you should have taken little Delbert's body to the river
and washed it down, with Tex Thomas & the Dangling Wranglers singing, "I
Am Washed In The Rum of the Lamb" softly in the background, according to
the instructions Rocky Erickson had received from Mars through the
fillings in his teeth after stepping out of the elevator on the 13th
floor, only to find himself in a vast wasteland of the mind where fear
and superstition coming from the Real (TM) floors of his brain structure
would sometimes cause him to doubt the voices.
  Hearing C.J. Parker, The County Mountie, drunkenly singing the ending
strains of the chorus of 'Armadillo (Are You Sure Jesus Done It This
Way?)': 
"And they catch those fly-balls on the head.
 And they never steal second, they steal first instead,
 Cause they learned all those moves that they make,
 From Panama Red."

  I don't wish to end up boring you with the youthful reminesces of a
doddering, senile old fart reliving the Glory Days in a time and place
where mental instability was honored and valued, whether it was C.J.
Parker singing about drug-induced mental instability of the Psycho
Killers, or Kinky Friedmann singing the praises of organic mental
disorder by hosting a Charles Whitman Memorial Reunion bash, with the
Texas Jewboys playing their harps in the background...
  Where was I...?

  Oh yes, I don't wish to end up boring you, but I'm a doddering, senile
old fart, so what the fuck can you expect, eh?

  The way this relates to CRYPTology is...

  At the end of MeatSpace lies...the Crypt!
  "Everybody want's to go to heaven, but nobody wants to die."
  "Nobody gets out of here alive."
  "I cooked Belushi's last spoon!"

  These are just a few of the song-titles which reflect the inherent
understanding of the muse that the rotting MeatSpace carcasses of the
CypherPunks will eventually turn to dust, but that the stench of their
vile, sick and twisted, 'shunned by every decent citizen' ideas and
philosophies will live on eternally in the biosemiotic evolution of
analogue life-forms crystallizing into the digital bits and bytes which
will exist forever in the CyberSpace home of virtual reality, the
Eternity Server.
  It was a lack of the esoteric understanding held by the Circle of
Eunuchs (AC/DC Rules!) Bienfait Nutly News reportwhores which led to DC
(Direct Current) journalists to proclaim the "Death of the CypherPunks,"
not understanding that the Toad was not dead, but had merely turned into
a Handsome Prince whose experiences in the bath houses of Sif Fiasco had
led him to realize that Human Gus-Peter should be shared with all who
wished to drink from the spigot of his knowledge, male *and* female,
regardless of whether or not they were wearing panties.

  Where was I...?
  Oh, yes...

  The sudden appearance of Bubba Rom Dos at the celebration for the
Pull-It,Sir Prize certain to be awarded for the, as yet, unwritten,
"KILL THE CHILDREN!!!" Bienfait Nutly News Special, reminded those
gathered of Bubba's infamous quote, "If murder is to have any meaning at
all, you must kill your friends."
  After singing a few verses of Bang! Crosby, Deathly Still & Gnashing
of Teeth's  hit song, "If you can't kill the one you love...kill the one
you're with." the reportwhores suddenly became stone-cold sober and,
realizing that the Canadian Author is Stone-Cold Crazy (TM), instantly
realized the true import of the Canadian AuthorTitty's efforts to drag
the InfoWar being waged in CyberSpace down into MeatSpace (where they
could kick the Author's sorry ass), by the confiscation of the physical
tools which he used to mirror analogue life onto the digital plane,
Electronically Forging ahead, past the historical boundaries of
MeatSpace Identity, into the Multi-User Persona Paridigm where
TruthMonger and [YourNameHere]@dev.null are free to live together in
peace and discord...

  Excuse me. I had to pause for a breath...

  Anyway, Armed Thugs With Massive MeatSpace Weaponry (TM) have a
deathly fear of being transmorgified into Mental Midgets by the
UnComprehensible InConceptual Distributed Digital Artistry (TM) taking
place in the parts of the brain used by the muse-- which go far beyond
the part of the brain where their own elevator stops, and they can go no
further, because taking the stairs isn't in their job description and
would probably get them in trouble with the union.
  Accordingly, they strike out like primitive savages at that which they
do not understand, using their heavy clubs to destroy the tools which
digital muses use to spam the MeatSpace Reality of the Decent Folk (TM)
with the '8 Words George Carlin Can't Say On The InterNet' :
1. Shit
2. Piss
3. Fuck
4. Cunt
5. Cocksucker
6. Motherfucker
7. Tits
8. Comstockery

~~~~
From: Wordsmith 
To: linguaphile@wordsmith.org
Subject: A.Word.A.Day--comstockery

Comstockery (KOM-stok-uh-ree, KUM-) noun

   Censorship of literature and other forms of expression and
communication
   because of perceived immorality or obscenity.

[After Anthony COMSTOCK.]

WORD HISTORY: Bowdlerism, named after Dr. Thomas Bowdler (1754-1825),
has
been around longer than Comstockery, named for Anthony Comstock
(1844-1915).
All Bowdler did to enter the world of common nouns was to expurgate
Shakespeare, the Bible, and Gibbon's History of the Decline and Fall of
the
Roman Empire. On the other hand, Comstock, the organizer and secretary
of
the New York Society for the Suppression of Vice, helped destroy 160
tons
of literature and pictures that he deemed immoral. Comstockery, the word
honoring his achievements, is first recorded in 1905 in a letter by
George
Bernard Shaw to the New York Times: "Comstockery is the world's standing
Joke at the expense of the United States.... It confirms the deep-seated
conviction of the Old World that America is a provincial place, a second
rate country-town civilization after all.".
 
   "The best argument for upholding this electronic Comstockery can be
   summed up in a single world: zoning."
   Jeffrey Rosen, Can the government stop cyberporn?,
   The New Republic, 31 Mar 1997.
 
...........................................................................
Send your comments about words to anu@wordsmith.org.  To subscribe or
unsubscribe A.Word.A.Day, send a message to wsmith@wordsmith.org with
"Subject:" line as "subscribe " or "unsubscribe".  Archives,
FAQ, gift subscription form, and more at: http://www.wordsmith.org/awad/
~~~~

  Uuhhh...I remember where I 'was,' but I don't remember where I'm
'going'...

  Uuhhh....hhmm...........

[End of Epilogue 2/0, I guess]





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Toto 
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 19:51:48 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Epilogue 3/0 - SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS!!! (Now containing special advertising inserts geared toward the reader's individual interests, based on your choice of password sfor your secret encryption keys.)
Message-ID: <353C0AA0.57AB@sk.sympatico.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Epilogue 3/0 - SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS!!!
_____________________________________________

		*** BIENFAIT NUTLY NEWS SPECIAL ***
	
		               **********************
		         *** KILL THE CHILDREN !!! ***
		               **********************

  ...Oh, yeah...now I remember!

  TalkTV! 
  It's a bastard-child of two forms of media--radio and
television--whose parents could never truly enter into a real marriage
because of slight differences in their techno-ethnic backgrounds.
  Nonetheless,  CITV-Edmonton has a TalkTV program which is a televised
radio call-in talk show.apparently designed to circumvent the potential
danger of another 'War of the Worlds' fiasco resulting from the tendency
of gullible Sheeple to believe everything they hear, and thus ending
with them racing en-mass off the edge of a cliff because the current
demand for the teaching of  equality in the educational system does not
allow the students to be taught that there is a difference between sheep
and lemmings.

[The New World Mathematical Order Equality Equations:
  0 + 1 = 1 ; 1 + 2 = 1 ; 4 * 7 = 1 ; (38 -12) * (6 + 4) = 1
 "Why can't we just all get a one?" 
 ~ Rodney King, after being beaten by L.A. police for driving faster
than 1 mph]

  These facts alone have little or no bearing on the point I am about to
make, but, taken together with a giant leap of logic, they lead to the
unmistakable conclusion that I am receiving secret messages from the
Gods of Communication through TV, radio, email, InterNet browsers and
the things pinned to the bulletin board at the local laundromat.
  The messages say, "KILL...KILL...KILL...KILL..."

  This fact in itself is not particularly troubling, nor even
noteworthy, for that matter, since, as a TechnoInfoWarrior, I am free to
slip into the Righteous Armour of the TruthMonger Multi-User InterNet
Persona and use my massive hidden stocks of excess commas, overused
capital letters and misplaced quote marks to wreak havoc upon the
English language in a frenzy of random slaughter that will eventually
lead to a total draining of the life-blood of meaning coursing
throughout the veins of the ascii-output thrown upon the Screen of
Reality (TM) which is no longer Silver, but any color that the end-user
chooses it to be, with a click of a mouse-button.

{I am once again losing my train of thought, here, but please bear with
me, as I suspect that I will find it devilishly hiding on a side-track
of the next few paragraphs.}

  The Jesus Futures Market--run by TOTO Enterprises in Bienfait,
Saskatchewan, and backed by BlackTar Junk Bonds-- reflects the evolution
of religious-faith technology into the Digital Salvation Age where Jesus
becomes a true Multi-User Savior who can redeem the sins of anyone who
has a credit-card number that can be used to receive a valid password
from the SoulCheck Validation System that allows them access to a wide
variety of Redemption sites capable of meeting their individual needs
according to the nature of the Adult Sex sites they have been visiting
(although the.individual Redemption WebSites reserve the right to add
surcharges for the redemption of sins involving graphic reproductions of
sex acts with life-forms or inanimate objects which are not covered by
the Original Crucifixion).
  As well, the proliferation of WebSites reflecting the validity of a
wide range of religious beliefs (i.e. - GodHatesFags.com, 'God's
Canadian Biblical Hate Page', not to mention the ever popular
http://www.balaams-ass.com/journal/balaam.htm) has led end-users to the
realization that they are no longer limited to the 'official' bullshit
being fed to them by government, corporate, religilous and social
leaders, but can actually make their own bullshit official by slapping
it into HTML format, uploading it to the InterNet, and making it as
valid a part of Virtual Reality as the MSNBC news URLs singing the
praises of a kindlier, gentler IRS.
  In fact, if you can convince some other lunatics to 'Link' to your
WebSite, in return for providing 'links' to the bullshit and garbage
that they have made manifest from what started out as a bad case of gas
from eating too many refried beans, then you have a shot at the BigTime
(TM), perhaps becoming part of some Ring of Worms that will throw total
strangers randomly into your own professed belief system, even if you
just made it up when you were drunk and have no idea what it all means
when you, yourself,  read your own WebSite, yourself, even when you are
drunk again (like now).

  So, as you can plainly see, it is equally easy to get back on track to
what may have been the original point I was trying to make, by throwing
a crossing-switch in your mind which links the validity of all religious
beliefs, regardless of their truth, in Reality (TM) (as long as they are
an HTML formatted part of the New World DisOrder arising from an
unregulated InterNet), with the equal validity of believing each and
every wave, bit or byte of analogue or digital information capable of
knocking on the Doors of Perception, as a Message from
MadDogInPossessionOfTheLastFalseSmile exhorting The Perceiver to
"KILL...KILL...KILL!!!" everything that moves, and some that don't, on
the theory that, since THE LIE is the 'Mother of the 10,000 Lies',
whereas The Truth (TM) is  hard to come by, rabidly biting them all so
that they will die a slow and agonizing death (unless they get the whole
series of rabies shots in time) and letting Dog sort them out will be
mathematically verifiable as being in the overall best interests of
WeTheSheeple, in the long run, over the long haul, on average, for the
most part, despite the pathetic whining of individual survivors of The
RAGE (TM) (i.e. - Fred Goldman), who selfishly petition for individual
justice at the expense of  the current hit-and-miss justice system which
averages out (in the long run, over the long haul, for the most part)
instead of just moving to Russia, if they don't like it.
  In short, the entrance bar on the Turnstile of the Gate Heaven has
been lowered by WeTheNetizens, so that pretty much anyone can jump over
it if they are short on officially recognized righteousness tokens, as
long as their beliefs and actions have been validated by a single hit on
their "HOW MANY DEAD BODIES DOES IT TAKE TO SPELL, 'I *TOLD* YOU I WAS
CRAZY'" WebSite.

  Thus it follows, that MeatSpace Authorities who choose to engage
InfoWarriors in battle on the physical plane are ultimately responsible
for any mayhem and destruction that may result from the transmission of
Digital InformationWaves (which are fairly harmless in their natural
optic fiber cable environment), over the Analogue MeatSpace Medium of a
human brain which has a level of electric resistance that makes it a bad
conductor, leading to the buildup of the heat of inner rage that can
only be released by the gentle breeze provided by the heat-reduction
attachment on a rapid-fire assault rifle being fired in a suitable
environment, such as a Denny's Restaurant, a Post Office, or within 500'
of a school.
  
********
Text Only Commercial Break
[I regret that the added expense of bribing my oldest nephew to lend me
his laptop in order to route around the damage caused by Decent People
With Family Values (TM) has forced me to rent space in the 'SPACE ALIENS
HIDE MY DRUGS!!!' manuscripts to A-Word-A-Day, who have kindly provided
me with a steady supply of excess commas, overused capital letters and
misplaced quote marks gleaned from the rough drafts of their work by
consciencious editors who are hoping that the Author will 'choke' on
them.]
********

CAN'T POSSIBLY BE TRUE

* Robert Gettman Boone, 51, was arrested at his home in a
Baltimore, Md., suburb in January and charged as the man who had
been firing two-foot-long, homemade bombs from his front yard,
across a busy thoroughfare, to a lot behind a car wash.  According
to police, Boone told them, "There's nothing to get excited about,"
that he was "just doing some experiments with high explosives." 
(Later, it took authorities almost eight hours to remove all the
explosives that were in his home.) 

* In September, police at Los Angeles International Airport
stopped Mark L. Kulp, 34, at a metal detector before his flight
home to East Grand Forks, Minn.  In his carry-on bags, Kulp had
several guns, 100 rounds of ammunition, knives, handcuffs, a ski
mask, and a fake sheriff's badge.  The police confiscated the
equipment and detained Kulp, and even learned that he was wanted
on an arrest warrant in Minnesota for threatening a police officer. 
However, they decided they could not arrest him because the guns
were not loaded, and when Minnesota authorities declined to send
anyone to bring him back, Kulp was released. 

BOOKS BY CHUCK SHEPHERD:  The Concrete Enema and
Other News of the Weird Classics by Chuck Shepherd (Andrews
and McMeel, 1996, $6.95) is still available in some larger
bookstores.  Or you can order by mail from Atomic Books, 1018
N. Charles St., Baltimore MD 21201 (add $2 postage for the first
book, $3 for two to the same address, $4 for 3, and $5 for more
than 3) (credit card orders 1-800-778-6246,
http://www.atomicbooks.com).  Or by credit card  from
Andrews and McMeel, 1-800-642-6480 (they bill $2 postage per
book).  Also by Chuck Shepherd and available at some larger
bookstores (and at Atomic Books):  News of the Weird (Plume
Books, 1989, $9), More News of the Weird (Plume, 1990, $9),
Beyond News of the Weird (Plume, 1991, $9), and America's Least
Competent Criminals (HarperPerennial, 1993, $9).  (The 1989,
1990, and 1991 books were co-authored with John J. Kohut and
Roland Sweet.)  Chuck Shepherd does not sell books, himself.
********
We Now Return You To Our Regularly Scheduled Chaos
********

  Insertion of an advertisement for publications by Chuck Shepherd,
perpetrator of the News Of The Weird, in a space bought and paid for by
A-Word-A-Day's Anu(s), should be taken as proof of the veracity of my
long-standing claims to be a drunken, senile old fart whose inability to
control either his bladder, his mind or his mouth, makes him a
natural-born TruthMonger (A Subsiduary Of Bubba Rom Dos Enterprises).

  Speaking of which...
  I need to take a leak and grab another beer, so this seems as good a
place as any to end this portion of the Bienfait Nutly News "KILL THE
CHILDREN!!!" Special.
  So..."Smoke 'em if you got 'em.", grab yourself a Brewski, and write
you mom an email with no capital letters or punctuation marks (in order
to help save the linguistic environment from the ravaging effects of the
hole in the Bozo Layer of the Author's mind, leading to the creative
juices of the muse dripping down to form a bizarre mixture with his
procreative, gastric and intestinal juices, resulting in a conceptual
cocktail containing chaotic corruptions of linguistic manipulations
which have the capacity to suck the creative juices out of both the
minds and the cocks of those currently under Grand Jury investigation by
Special Persecutor, Dimitri Vulis KOTM, for CypherPunks Activities.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 57873.Tim
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 21:34:37 -0700 (PDT)
To: 57873.Smart, Shopper
Subject: Nickel-A-Minute Long Distance Service Here NOW!
Message-ID: <199804210434.VAA22779@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


NICKEL- A- MINUTE Long Distance Service is Here NOW.

YES, IT IS REAL: 5˘ per minute Long Distance Service 7 days/week, 
24 hours/day! with an 18 second minimum, and 6 second 
billing increments. - and incredibly Low International Rates too.

But here's the best part: you can use this rate from any phone: your 
Cell Phone, Pay Phones, your neighbors phone, etc. 

For details simply mailto:tim@allways.net with "info" in the Subject Header

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
You're online. and likely make long distance toll calls, so here's a chance to reduce long distance costs. 
Tthis is a benefit to you, however,  if you wish, simply put "remove" in the subject heading, and you will be 
placed on our Permanent Remove List and will never intentionally recive email from us again.
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 16:01:22 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Gary Lee Burnore and His Anti-Privacy Zealots are on the Warpath!
In-Reply-To: <6gobin$ctl$1@camel20.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <199804202301.BAA22881@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Belinda Bryan  wrote:

> The bottom line is that you'd better get down on your knees every night
> and pray to whatever you hold sacred that I don't find out who you are
> because if I do, I will make every minute of the rest of your miserable
> life an absolute hell.  And I won't break any laws to do it, nor will I
> hide behind a veil of anonymity.  This is no threat, it's a *promise*.

Why don't you just tell you child-molesting friend Gary Lee Burnore that if
he would keep his pants zipped up around the children, he wouldn't need to
hire you to fight his battles.  If he didn't molest a child in Santa Clara,
CA and then move to NC and register as a sex offender, the fact of his
conviction for that crime wouldn't have been published for all to see on
Nort Carolina's public registered sex offender's website, would it?  Just
because you don't like the message, don't shoot the messenger.  This was
the same loud-mouthed Burnore that previously said that republishing
publicly available data to Usenet was acceptable, and that he had nothing
to hide.  Now he's pissed that someone else is following his own example.

Anti-privacy kooks like you and DataBasix CEO Gary Lee Burnore are one of
the best arguments for the existence of anonymous remailers.  You and your
friends at DataBasix have a hard time bullying and harassing people into
silence that you can't identify, don't you?

Lest anyone forget, Gary launched his first tirade against anonymity when
someone tipped off his molestation victim's mother and school officials
anonymously.  Whistleblowing has always been one of the important functions
of anonymous remailers.  Of course, Gary denied the charges and accused the
victim's anonymous benefactor of "harassment" and "libel".  Now the public
record shows that Gary was guilty after all, by his own admission and
guilty plea.

Belinda, if you want to make Gary's "miserable life an absolute hell", why
don't you just marry him?

Now if I really wanted to start a vicious rumor, I'd wonder aloud whether
Raleigh, NC's two most famous resident kooks, Gary Burnore and the Rev.
Steve Winter are really one and the same person!




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 16:50:29 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Gary Lee Burnore, Convicted Child Molester in Raleigh, NC
In-Reply-To: <6go7ak$mmk$1@camel19.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <199804202350.BAA29721@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Belinda Bryan  wrote:

> And let's not forget how he did exhaustive research of my posting
> history in Deja News and created a summary which included the location
> of my son's (former) preschool and submitted it for permanent archival
> on the Netscum page.

You need to be careful about posting information like that about your
children, especially since there is a registered sex offender, Gary Lee
Burnore , living in your neighborhood.

Why did you post information like that publicly in the first place if you
didn't want people to read it?

Also, it's amazing what people can dredge up on you.  One fellow was harassed
by having a 10 year old California tax lien posted worldwide to usenet in an
attempt to silence his dissenting opinions.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Shostack 
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 05:38:06 -0700 (PDT)
To: bill.stewart@pobox.com (Bill Stewart)
Subject: Re: "Lawful access" vs warrants:  I found the difference today!
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980419144630.0084d100@popd.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <199804211229.IAA18738@homeport.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Bill Stewart wrote:

| Even though there basically aren't any foreign Commies left any more,
| there's always The Pope, and Zionism, and Foreign Drug Cartels, and 
| foreign embassies*, and foreign-based MultiNational Corporations, 
| and people with accounts in Swiss banks or Anguillan computers.  
| Power isn't just for governments any more.

| ~~~
| * If they clue in to Elgoland and Vargaland, some of us could
| be in Big Trouble :-)
| ~~~

	If they had to be logically consistent, then recognizing
agents of Elgoland* as agents of a foreign power would require
recognizing Elgoland as a foriegn power.  That might be worth a few of
our spies.

* I have no idea where or who Elgoland is.

Umm, make that someone else's spies. :)

Adam


-- 
Just be thankful that Microsoft does not manufacture pharmaceuticals.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Sunder 
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 07:56:06 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: OpenBSD possibly affected by Canadian Export Laws [Fwd]
Message-ID: <353CB023.3C86B75E@brainlink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



To: announce@openbsd.org
Subject: Urgent appeal: Gov't action on encryption: Please respond today!!
From: ian@darwinsys.com (Ian F. Darwin)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 09:47:11 -0400
Sender: announce-request@openbsd.org

OpenBSD is a secure operating system. To thrive, we need to be
able to continue making reliable and secure electronic communication
technology available. It is possible that the Canadian government
is about to take (well meaning but ill-informed?) policy decisions
that would result in the curtailment of our rights to export OpenBSD
as we know it.

Apologies for the short notice but it appears that the
Canadian government may be trying to put a fast one over
by having a sham "public comment" period before going
ahead with their own agenda. Possibly not. In any case,
the DEADLINE FOR COMMENTS IS APRIL 21, so please act on
this message today. [If you get this a day or two after
the deadline, please send a short note anyway; better late
than never!].

Thanks
Ian Darwin
ian@darwinsys.com
ian@openbsd.org

----- Begin Included Message -----
April 17, 1998
>From Mark D. Hughes
Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI)
ISPI4Privacy@ama-gi.com


The following was posted in:
GLIC Alert (the Global Internet Liberty Campaign Newsletter)
Volume 2, Issue 5
April 13, 1998
http://www.gilc.org


[B4.4] Canada Sets the Stage for Encryption Action

On March 31, 1998, leaders of Canada's cryptography industry and
privacy advocates met in Ottawa to discuss and suggest an encryption
plan for Canada. Wired News reported that "the consensus among the
group was that Canada should continue its current stance of not
implementing any domestic crypto controls, and liberalize its existing
export policies."  The article quotes David Jones, president of
Electronic Frontier Canada (EFC is a GILC founding member): "We are
firmly opposed to any policy or legislation that would prohibit the
export of encryption of encryption products, either stored or
transmitted."

In February, the Canadian government invited public
comment when it issued "A Cryptography Policy Framework for Electronic
Commerce," where it depicts several different cryptography
possibilities.  According to Mark Hughes, executive director of the
Victoria-based Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI): "its call for
public comment is, in my view, a cruel joke because the paper was only just
issued (February 21, 1998) and all public comment must be made by
April 21, 1998.  As few Canadians comprehend what encryption is and
how it affects them, two months is simply not enough time for
Canadians to sufficiently educate themselves in order to make informed
comments on the future of their electronic privacy."

Read Wired story: http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/1

Canada's "Framework" proposal:
http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/SSG/cy00005e.html

Electronic Frontier Canada: http://insight.mcmaster.ca/org/efc

Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI): ISPI4Privacy@ama-gi.com

********************************************************************************





----- End Included Message -----





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 10:28:42 -0700 (PDT)
To: kalliste@aci.net>
Subject: paid for making war on Iran & The Improbable Inventor of Frequency-Hopping Radio
Message-ID: <353CD5C5.71DB@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Tuesday 4/21/98 9:32 AM

J Orlin Grabbe
John Young
John Gilmore

ABQ J 4/21/98 A6

  U.S. Aided Communist Foe Pol Pot
  Richard Reeves

  LOS ANGELES - ...

  Even after he fell from national power, we helped supply and protect
  Pol Pot because the Khmer Rouge was tying down large number of
occupying
  North Vietnamese troops.
    These are some of the names of the evil who were or still are paid
friends:
  o  Saddam Hussein, paid for making war on Iran.
  o  Gulbuddin Hekmatry, who made his name throwing acid in the faces of
female
     students in Kabul who dared to wear western dress, paid for making
was against
     communists in Afghanistan.
  o  The Taliban, the religious warriors we helped train to fight
communists who are 
     beating or killing those same women right now in Afghanistan.
  o  Manuel Noriega, the soldier-thug we encouraged to overthrow
elections in Panama
     because we did not like the results.
  o  Mobuto Sese Seko, one Joseph Mobutu, our man in Zaire.
  o  Jonas Savimbi, in constant war in Angola
  The list goes on.  It has for a long time and will, even if communism
is dead as a
  national security threat of the United States.  In may of these cases
our interest 
  involved resources - oil, usually, ...

Details of exactly how the US helped Saddam are coming out. 
  
  http://jya.com/whpfiles.htm  
  http://www.aci.net/kalliste/

Let's change to a more positive topic.  Lively people.

  Scientific American, April 1998, 95,  Spread Spectrum Radio ...

  The Improbable Inventor of Frequency-Hopping Radio

  She was gorgeous, glamorous and talented.  And she had a mind for
technology.  In
  1941 actress Hedy Lamarr, along with the avant-garde composer and
musician George
  Anthiel filed for a patent to cover their "Secret Communication
System," a device designed
  to help the U.S. military jump from one frequency to another, thus
making enemy 
  interception and jamming difficult.
    Born Hedwig Maria Eva Kiesler in Vienna, Austria, Lamarr may have
gotten the idea of
  "frequency hopping" while she was married to Fritz Mandl, an armament
manufacturer
  who sold munitions of Adolph Hitler.  Through a marriage arranged by
her parents, Lamarr
  was Mandl's trophy wife, and she accompanied him to the many business
dinners and 
  meetings, where unbeknownst to the participants, she silently learned
about Axis war
  technology.  After four years with Mandl, Lamarr, a staunch anti-Nazi,
fled to London, 
  where MGM's Louis B. Mayer "discovered" her and convinced her to move
to the U.S.
    In Hollywood she me Antheil, who helped her figure out a way to
synchronize the 
  frequency hopping between the radio transmitter and receiver.  Their
invention, which
  they gave to the U.S. government for free, called for two paper rolls,
similar to those used in 
  player pianos, punched with an identical pattern of random holes.  One
of the rolls would
  control the transmitter on the submarine which the other would be
launched with the 
  receiver on the torpedo.  Though ingenious, the device was deemed too
cumbersome for use
  in World War II.  
    Still, the seminal idea of frequency hopping lingered.  By the late
1950s U.S. Navy contractors
  were able to take advantage of early computer processors for
controlling and synchronizing the
  hopping sequence.  Since then, the U.S. military has deployed more
sophisticated techniques with
  even faster processors in costly, classified devices, including
satellite communications systems.
  And today. And today the technology has become widespread in cell
phones and in personal
  communications (PCS), among other civilian applications. - D.R.H.

  HEDY LAMARR, the Hollywood actress, was the co-receipient of a patent
(inset)
  for basic  technology that is now widely used in cell phones and
personal 
  communications services(PCS).

US News & World Report, April 20, 1998 page 16

  PEOPLE IN THE NEWS	

  Saying she's been "humiliated and embarrassed ... has suffered mental
pain
  and anguish," the sultry 1940s screen star Hedy Lamarr, 84, has filed
a lawsuit
  seeking unspecified damages from the Corel Corp., a Canadian software
maker.
  The case, now in U.S. District Court, claims Corel used her image with
authorization.

My impression is that NSA attempted de-emphasize the most important
PRACTICAL 
technology for spread spectrum frequency-hopping an
ciphering/authentication:
shift register sequence [Galois fields, mod 2].  

But this is not working largely because of Internet

  http://www.semionoff.com/cellular/hacking/phreaking/

NSA, a user of Forth, also tried to do hide threaded code technology.
This isn't working for NSA either.

Let's hope for settlement so that we can get on to more, if I can even 
imagine such, projects.

Later
bill






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Phil Karn 
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 15:08:52 -0700 (PDT)
To: die@die.com
Subject: Re: Position escrow
In-Reply-To: <19980417175445.54922@die.com>
Message-ID: <199804212208.PAA22084@servo.qualcomm.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


This is a really difficult issue. Even the most diehard cypherpunk
cannot doubt the usefulness of a cellular position reporting
capability in an emergency situation, when the user *wants* the cops
or whoever to know where he is.  The big problem is how to keep it
from being used (or abused) for "law enforcement" purposes without the
consent of the user.

The main reason GPS receivers are not being used is simple economics:
as small and cheap as they're getting, they're still too big and
expensive for a cell phone. It's not just the electronics, but the
antenna too. And they don't work too well indoors.  So the
manufacturers are developing ways to locate the phone using complexity
in the base station, where it can be shared. Various time-of-arrival
schemes are being proposed. CDMA has an inherent capability because
it (like GPS) uses spread spectrum, although there are near-far
problems to be solved.

I expect the main countermeasure to cellular position tracking will be
the use of one-way pagers. Keep your cell phone turned off, and if you
get a page when you're someplace you don't want them to know, wait
until you leave before you return the page.

Perhaps if the "just turn it off" approach is widely promoted, the
carriers and vendors will see the threat to their business and press
for some safeguards. Otherwise they just won't give a damn.

Phil






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Lucky Green 
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 16:43:53 -0700 (PDT)
To: Phil Karn 
Subject: Re: Position escrow
In-Reply-To: <199804212208.PAA22084@servo.qualcomm.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Tue, 21 Apr 1998, Phil Karn wrote:

> This is a really difficult issue. Even the most diehard cypherpunk
> cannot doubt the usefulness of a cellular position reporting
> capability in an emergency situation, when the user *wants* the cops
> or whoever to know where he is.  The big problem is how to keep it
> from being used (or abused) for "law enforcement" purposes without the
> consent of the user.

Usfull != good idea. If the information is available for some purposes, 
it is, or soon will, become available for other purposes. The only way to 
prevent this is to not make the information available for *any* purpose.

I gladly take the cellphone without 911 locator over the cellphone with 
24/7 postion escrow. Furthermore, I content that there is no middle 
ground between the two. Assuming of course the phone doesn't have an 
active locator device that can be enabled using a special 911 button.

YMMV.

-- Lucky Green  PGP encrypted mail preferred





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Kathleen Ellis 
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 13:52:07 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Fwd: 1998 EPIC Cryptography Conference - June 8 - Washington, DC
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>
>
>   Top Government Officials, Industry Leaders, Cryptography Experts
>     and Public Interest Advocates to Discuss Encryption Policy
>
>
>                             Washington, DC
>                          Monday, June 8, 1998
>
>                  http://www.epic.org/events/crypto98/
>
>Top government officials -- including Senator John Ashcroft (R-MO),
>William Reinsch (Undersecretary of Commerce for Export Administration)
>and Robert Litt (Principal Associate Attorney General) -- will discuss
>current U.S. encryption policy at the largest policy conference on
>cryptography ever held in Washington, D.C.  Other leading experts from
>government, industry, public interest community and academia will also
>debate important legal, political technical  issues. If you are
>interested in cryptography policy, this is the one meeting you must
>attend!
>
>The 1998 EPIC Cryptography and Privacy Conference is organized by the
>Electronic Privacy Information Center, in cooperation with the Harvard
>University Information Infrastructure Project and the Technology
>Policy Research Group of the London School of Economics.
>
>
>- THE 1998 EPIC CRYPTOGRAPHY AND PRIVACY CONFERENCE -
>
>HIGHLIGHTS
>
>   o Meet the technical experts, industry leaders, litigators, and
>     policy makers who are shaping the global debate over encryption
>     and privacy.
>
>   o Get the latest news, reports, legislative information, and
>     technical results.
>
>   o Receive the 1998 edition of the highly-acclaimed EPIC Cryptography
>     and Privacy Sourcebook.
>
>
>THE PANELS
>
>   o Top US government officials will debate top industry
>     representatives on current U.S. policy on domestic restrictions,
>     export controls, and pending legislation.
>
>   o A panel of senior government officials from France, England,
>     Canada, Germany and the European Union will describe encryption
>     policies in their countries and future trends.
>
>   o Leading cryptographers and technical experts will discuss the
>     dangers and benefits of key escrow and key recovery systems and other
>     important technical issues.
>
>   o Attorneys representing the plaintiffs and the U.S. Government in
>     the pending legal challenges to the constitutionality of export
>     controls will discuss and debate the cases and their outcomes.
>
>
>FEES:
>
>Register before May 15 for reduced fee.
>
>   Standard
>
>       o $300.00 (before May 15) / $400.00 (after May 15)
>
>   Academic/Govt/501(c)(3)
>
>       o $150.00 (before May 15) / $200.00 (after May 15)
>
>
>MORE INFORMATION, FULL AGENDA AND ONLINE REGISTRATION:
>
>     http://www.epic.org/events/crypto98/
>
>

Kathleen M. Ellis   Admin. Asst., Electronic Privacy Information Center
Voice Mail:  (202)298-0833	           http://www.epic.org
PGP 5.0 Key ID 9bf725b4  65FF B997 62B8 C396 A527
		        2D6A 4901 F701 9BF7 25B4






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mark Armbrust 
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 16:44:02 -0700 (PDT)
To: cryptography@c2.net
Subject: Re: Position escrow
In-Reply-To: <19980417175445.54922@die.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980421173331.009151b0@ff.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 03:08 PM 4/21/98 -0700, you wrote:
>This is a really difficult issue. Even the most diehard cypherpunk
>cannot doubt the usefulness of a cellular position reporting
>capability in an emergency situation, when the user *wants* the cops
>or whoever to know where he is.  The big problem is how to keep it
>from being used (or abused) for "law enforcement" purposes without the
>consent of the user.

Don't archive the information -- supply it as part of the CNID.  If the
user has disabled caller-ID don't supply the location info either.

This depends on the integrity of the service provider and whether they have
the balls to stand up against CALEA.

--Mark

"The condition upon which God hath given liberty to man is eternal
vigilance which condition if he break, servitude is at once the consequence
of his crime, and the punishment of his guilt."

    John Philpott Curran, speech on the Right of election of the Mayor
    of Dublin, 1790.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Greg Broiles 
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 17:39:25 -0700 (PDT)
To: Phil Karn 
Subject: Re: Position escrow
In-Reply-To: <19980417175445.54922@die.com>
Message-ID: <199804220039.RAA16621@ideath.parrhesia.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 03:08 PM 4/21/98 -0700, Phil Karn wrote:
>This is a really difficult issue. Even the most diehard cypherpunk
>cannot doubt the usefulness of a cellular position reporting
>capability in an emergency situation, when the user *wants* the cops
>or whoever to know where he is.  The big problem is how to keep it
>from being used (or abused) for "law enforcement" purposes without the
>consent of the user.

Arguments about the "utility" of the technology are distracting - lots of
things are useful in some rare circumstances, not in others. If I were held
hostage in my apartment, I might wish there were hidden video cameras
installed in every room so the SWAT team snipers would be able to shoot the
bad guys without endangering me. If I were injured badly in a single-car
accident in a desolate place, I might wish that the government had the
means to track every automobile's location. The rest of the time, I think
those technologies are very distasteful and unwelcome. People dying of
thirst drink urine. It's not necessarily useful to use a worst-case
scenario when deciding how we'd like to organize and technologize our
ordinary lives.

The question is not whether or not cypherpunks want cellphone-locating
technology to be built - because it will be built. People who aren't happy
with that, for whatever reason, must fight that technology with technology
- arguments and proclamations are helpless against technology, as the
ridiculous export control "debate" makes clear. Once the technology exists,
it will be used.

What we need are cellphone remailers - they'll accept cellphone traffic
sent via nonstandard means (a different spread-spectrum
arrangement/protocol, or different frequencies for analog, or ..) and relay
it onto the ordinary (subject to surveillance) cell frequencies/spectrum.
Third parties who want to use ordinary/automated cellphone tracking systems
will get the physical address of the relay, not that of the phone. And
(hopefully) the relay won't keep logs of its traffic, nor attempt to track
down its users. (Operators of relays likely won't have access to nearly the
number of antennae/base stations that the regular cellphone folks do, so
it'll be harder for them to use trianguation and timing to derive physical
location. At least that's what my relatively RF-clueless understanding is.)
Do you (or other folks familiar with ham radio technology and repeater
technology) have any comments on the ease/difficulty of building a cellular
remailer? I assume it'd be necessary to modify a cellphone to use the
nonstandard remailer setup, which may be difficult.


>I expect the main countermeasure to cellular position tracking will be
>the use of one-way pagers. Keep your cell phone turned off, and if you
>get a page when you're someplace you don't want them to know, wait
>until you leave before you return the page.

But one-way pagers are a dying technology - and I'll bet that within 3-5
years, it'll no longer be possible to turn off cellphones, at least without
removing the batteries. I think that change won't be driven by surveillance
needs, but because the setup time required where the phone and the network
do their handshaking is annoying. It's likely to get worse as crypto is
added to cellphones, and if batteries get better it won't be crucial to
have the phone turned off when not in use.

Then again, you probably know a lot more about cellphone design than I do. 

>Perhaps if the "just turn it off" approach is widely promoted, the
>carriers and vendors will see the threat to their business and press
>for some safeguards. Otherwise they just won't give a damn.

If we want safeguards, we're going to have to build them ourselves. Laws
won't help, neither will carefully crafted, reasonable arguments. 


--
Greg Broiles        |History teaches that 'Trust us'
gbroiles@netbox.com |is no guarantee of due process.
                    |_Kasler v. Lundgren_, 98 CDOS 1581
                    |(March 4, 1998)




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Phil Karn 
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 18:16:55 -0700 (PDT)
To: shamrock@netcom.com
Subject: Re: Position escrow
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199804220116.SAA22628@servo.qualcomm.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Well, given that I work in CDMA, and given that CDMA provides some
inherent positioning capabilities, the possibility of defeating
positioning by hacking the phone software to "dither" the return link
signal timing has occurred to me.  It wouldn't let you appear to be in
a different cell than the one you're in, but it would certainly
decrease the measurement precision. You could disable the dither if
you want when you make an E911 call.

What sweet revenge that would be against the government that inflicted
Selective Availability on all us civilian GPS users. :-)

Phil





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Animal Protection League 
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 15:26:06 -0700 (PDT)
To: freedom-knight-advocates@jetcafe.org
Subject: Re: UDP for cybernothing.org
Message-ID: <2.2.32.19980422012139.006fbfc4@neptunenet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 10:00 AM 4/21/98 -0700, J.D. Falk wrote:
>Thanks for using NetForward!
>http://www.netforward.com
>v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v
>
>On 04/21/98, Eureka Eleven  wrote: 
>
>> Please be advised that your domain has been
>> issued a UDP for your censorous actions on Usenet.
>
>	How interesting.  Would you be willing to explain exactly when
>	(assuming it's within the past two years) these actions took
>	place, hopefully with copies of the offending messages?

You must be dense to even ask.

>	Please also explain which type of UDP you have issued, and
>	who is participating, so that I'm not worried when those sites
>	don't get my messages.

Your worries are nobody else's concern.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Phil Karn 
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 18:54:01 -0700 (PDT)
To: cryptography@c2.net
Subject: Re: Position escrow
In-Reply-To: <199804220101.AA20326@world.std.com>
Message-ID: <199804220153.SAA22662@servo.qualcomm.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I think you guys are worried about the wrong problem.

The E911 stuff is still years off. Even when it is deployed, it will
probably work only during a call, though this may depend on the exact
method.

In my opinion, idle cell registrations -- which are already standard
cellular system practice -- represent the far more serious privacy
threat.

The cellular network uses registrations to locate mobiles so that page
(incoming call) messages can be directed to the user's cell instead of
being inefficiently "flooded" over the entire network. (I note that
each AMPS paging channel is 10 kb/s while the usual one-way paging
system operates in flood mode at something like .5 - 2 kb/s. But
cellular phone calls have to go through in seconds, while pager
messages often take minutes.)

While these registrations are not quite as precise as the E911
locating stuff under discussion, they can be precise enough. They'll
locate you to a given cell and sector, to say nothing of a given city.
In many heavily populated places, cells are pretty small.  And most
importantly, registrations occur whenever the phone is on -- whether
or not it's in a call. Even the most heavily used phones probably
spend most of their time idle, and many less heavily used phones are
probably idle for days at a time.

While it would seem that a cellular carrier would have no reason to
log these messages, many do. The main reasons, as I understand them,
have to do with resolving roamer billing disputes and detecting
cloning fraud. 

The FBI is already slobbering all over these registration logs and has
been battling the CTIA to get them under CALEA -- even though Louie
Freeh specifically disclaimed an interest in them during the
Congressional hearings on CALEA.  So far the CTIA has resisted. But
knowing them, the problem is almost certainly about money and not
anything as inconsequential as personal privacy.

Phil








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Yupin Mungdee 
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 11:07:12 -0700 (PDT)
To: Lucky Green 
Subject: Re: GSM cellphones cloned
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980414153441.00691a18@jps.net>
Message-ID: <199804211806.LAA05732@rigel.infonex.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Lucky Green wrote:
>A technical description of the attack is at
>http://www.isaac.cs.berkeley.edu/isaac/gsm-faq.html

Does the attack work if the SIM is protected by an unknown PIN code?





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 17:27:21 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: DoD Zips Echelon
Message-ID: <199804220027.UAA14316@camel8.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


DoD News Briefing
Tuesday, April 21, 1998 - 1:45 p.m. (EDT)
Briefer: Captain Mike Doubleday, USN, DASD (PA)

        Q: Can you comment about a report recently to the European 
parliament concerning the development these last years of U.S. and 
British eavesdropping system called Echelon.

        A: I'm sorry to say I have absolutely nothing on that.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Dave Emery 
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 17:51:05 -0700 (PDT)
To: Lucky Green 
Subject: Re: Position escrow
In-Reply-To: <199804212208.PAA22084@servo.qualcomm.com>
Message-ID: <19980421204814.A21521@die.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Tue, Apr 21, 1998 at 04:43:38PM -0700, Lucky Green wrote:
> On Tue, 21 Apr 1998, Phil Karn wrote:
> 
> > This is a really difficult issue. Even the most diehard cypherpunk
> > cannot doubt the usefulness of a cellular position reporting
> > capability in an emergency situation, when the user *wants* the cops
> > or whoever to know where he is.  The big problem is how to keep it
> > from being used (or abused) for "law enforcement" purposes without the
> > consent of the user.
> 
> Usfull != good idea. If the information is available for some purposes, 
> it is, or soon will, become available for other purposes. The only way to 
> prevent this is to not make the information available for *any* purpose.
> 
> I gladly take the cellphone without 911 locator over the cellphone with 
> 24/7 postion escrow. Furthermore, I content that there is no middle 
> ground between the two. Assuming of course the phone doesn't have an 
> active locator device that can be enabled using a special 911 button.
> 

	I am afraid that I'm enough of a paraniod cynic to wonder as to
the motives of the FCC in establishing this hard and fast requirement.
I'm afraid the police state types who benefit have considerable access
to and influence in such places as the FCC (which is in part a federal
law enforcement agency), and clearly anybody who wants the capability
for tracking the sheeple certainly had a golden opportunity to sell it
as important for E911 and fraud control.   The fact this has, in fact,
been the public reason given doesn't convince me that darker
possibilities aren't important factors.   Mark my words, someone will
turn up the memo explaining the strategy in some FIOA  request in a few
years.

	Certainly a cooperative protocol could have been used such
that a mobile station would have the option of opting out of having
its position determined, but apparently not doing this has been
sold to the carriers as a business opportunity - namely charging
different rates depending on where the caller is when making the
call.   This has been trumpeted as allowing carriers to charge
low rates for cell calls at home where there is wired phone 
competition and gouging rates for calls from places where there
is no alternative...



	

-- 
	Dave Emery N1PRE,  die@die.com  DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass. 
PGP fingerprint = 2047/4D7B08D1 DE 6E E1 CC 1F 1D 96 E2  5D 27 BD B0 24 88 C3 18





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Dan Geer 
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 18:01:50 -0700 (PDT)
To: Phil Karn 
Subject: Re: Position escrow
In-Reply-To: <199804212208.PAA22084@servo.qualcomm.com>
Message-ID: <199804220101.AA20326@world.std.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



    This is a really difficult issue.

And how.  

How does this interact with phones whose
access (telephone) number is non-unique?
Could where I am calling from be divorced
from what instrument I am using to call?
Is there a parallel between smearing the
signal over a spectrum of radio frequencies
and smearing the identifying information
over a spectrum of numbers? Could calls
to 911 carry no phone number but just
"here I am" information -- a panic button
function, in other words?

I imagine I sound like someone calling in
to an ASK THE EXPERTS radio show...

--dan





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Dave Emery 
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 18:16:00 -0700 (PDT)
To: cryptography@c2.net
Subject: GSM cellphones cloned - THREATS !!
Message-ID: <19980421211620.A22293@die.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


----- Forwarded message from Dave Emery  -----
> 
> Several radio enineers I talked with speculated that it /might/ even be
> possible to modify a standard GSM phone to act as a rouge "key reaper"
> base station. I am not a radio engineer and have no way to verify this
> claim.

	The modifications would be fairly major and rather difficult on
a surface mount high density low cost phone PC board.  A lot of the
stuff required is in ASICs in a typical phone, and they are not in
general easily adapted to playing a different role even if the full
design database and phone schematics are available to the hacker which
it would not be.

	On the other hand, some of the components of a standard GSM
phone  could be used to fill a number of functions in such an animal,
and a couple of partially stripped GSM phone PC cards would certainly be
useful as part of such.  I would see such a probe base station as a
briefcase size object run by a laptop or powerful palmtop spliced into
two or three hacked up phone PC cards with some added signal processing
logic in a FPGA or two (and maybe an added RF modem chip as well).
There would be a significant amount of software required, depending on
how completely one would have to emulate a base stations and mobile
switch.

	Of course some older phone designs might be less ASIC intensive
and more adaptable, although the 1.9 ghz PCS US versions are mostly
pretty recent.   And there may be some universal multi-standard brand
that is much more software configured than others and might be an easier
jumping off place - I certainly have not investigated this at all (nor
do I expect to).



	On another topic - privacy...


	Your break suggests that A3/A8 may have been deliberately
weakened to allow such SIM probing.   Intelligence agencies are not in
general  interested in cloning, but for those without access to whatever
magic hardware (or software) exists for cracking A5/1 at low cost in
real time, the ability to once recover the SIM secret allows easy
listening to all subsequent calls from that phone (or SIM) with no
required cracking hardware time or access.  And this is very valuable in
lots of situations, such as covert operations out of hotels in foreign
places where having highly classified A5 cracking boxes in tow would be
a significant security risk.

	And for countries with GSM phone systems interested in spying
on visiting diplomats, heads of state, or trade delegations who are using
their GSM phones in a roaming mode and depending on the fact the GSM home
switching office does not disclose their long term secret, such probing can
be quietly concealed in the real traffic of a legitimate base station.
The secrets recovered can then be used to crack traffic back in the
visitor's home country where he may be trusting his local system to
be secure.

	And the ability to probe the phones of visiting dignitaries from
nearby hotel rooms and recover their secrets must be awfully useful to
many even third rate intelligence operations - this allows listening to
all their subsequent traffic without requiring an A5/1 cracking
capability at all - let alone one that works real time from low cost
portable units.

	And even if there is some sanity test in GSM phone firmware that
would catch or prevent enough probes to crack the SIM secret, your 
physical access method allows black bag jobs to recover the SIM secret
of phones left poorly guarded for a few hours.   This alone
is very obviously of great use to intelligence types (at least unless
there is some hardware backdoor in the SIM to allow the readout in
seconds rather than hours).



-- 
	Dave Emery N1PRE,  die@die.com  DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass. 
PGP fingerprint = 2047/4D7B08D1 DE 6E E1 CC 1F 1D 96 E2  5D 27 BD B0 24 88 C3 18





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ulf@fitug.de (Ulf =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=F6ller?=)
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 12:56:13 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: GSM Security Study
Message-ID: <199804211916.VAA18518@public.uni-hamburg.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


> To assess this spin we offer extracts of a 1998 GSM System 
> Security Study:
> 
>   http://jya.com/gsm061088.htm  (44K + 3 images)

Looks like that is the 'two brown envelopes' doc from which Ross Anderson
reconstructed the A5 algorithm as reprinted in Applied Cryptography.

Racal Research writes that there were French, Swedish and British
proposals.  Ross indicated that the French one was chosen as A5, while
Julian Assange says that two different "A5" algorithms are in use.
What happened to the Swedish and the UK proposal?

Do you also have Appendix A and Section 8 of the A5 analysis?

They write that COMP128 was proposed 'by the German administration'.
Does anyone know which role the BSI (then called ZfCh) played in the
design of this algorithm?




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Brian B. Riley" 
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 19:21:52 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: Re: Position escrow
Message-ID: <199804220221.WAA28566@mx01.together.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On 4/21/98 7:33 PM, Mark Armbrust (marka@ff.com)  passed this wisdom:

>At 03:08 PM 4/21/98 -0700, you wrote:
>>This is a really difficult issue. Even the most diehard cypherpunk
>>cannot doubt the usefulness of a cellular position reporting
>>capability in an emergency situation, when the user *wants* the cops
>>or whoever to know where he is.  The big problem is how to keep it
>>from being used (or abused) for "law enforcement" purposes without the
>>consent of the user.
>
>Don't archive the information -- supply it as part of the CNID.  If the
>user has disabled caller-ID don't supply the location info either.
>
>This depends on the integrity of the service provider and whether they have
>the balls to stand up against CALEA.

 It seems to me that security dependent upon someone else's ethics/guts 
or lack of them is no security at all.


Brian B. Riley --> http://members.macconnect.com/~brianbr
 For PGP Keys  

  "I tried sniffing Coke once, but the ice cubes got stuck in my nose."






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 19:23:23 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: GAO's Latest on Domestic Terrorism
Message-ID: <199804220223.WAA00273@camel8.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


The General Accounting Office published today its April 9 
report to Congress, "Combating Terrorism: Threat and Risk 
Assessments Can Help Prioritize and Target Program 
Investments." 

It reviews the status of the domestic preparedness program, 
and recommends that for continued funding cities be required 
to perform threat and risk assessments.

There's interesting discussion about the Feds sharing 
sensitive intelligence with locals. And, FEMA questions if it
will be legal to require cities to perform the assessments.

The report is available from GAO in PDF format:

   http://www.gao.gov/new.items/ns98074.pdf  (363K)

We offer an HTML conversion:

   http://jya.com/nsiad-98-74.htm  (78K + 4 images)






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Brian B. Riley" 
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 19:33:31 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: Re: Position escrow
Message-ID: <199804220233.WAA31268@mx02.together.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

 The idea of a 'cellular remailer' will run afoul of the fact that the
FCC has control of the spectrum allocations. Unlike an Internet remailer
where the FCC has little say, it is not likely that they would permit a
commercial enterprise that would be able to be setup and run in that
manner. I don't even mention 'non-commercial' as that spectrum is so
valuable there is no way it would ever be turned over to
'amateur/citizen' use ... it will either be setup according to the
FCC/FBI dictates or it won't exist.


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0
Charset: noconv

iQEVAwUBNT1W8D7r4fUXwraZAQE6oAf/RYtHSSlQSUqWTKgWgmMLj9avCxWFE02L
ckqs15RVjeMYAWT93aiQnvepMT5i48KRbE9PYJi89CoAFaiiboeQOW4KA+QF9YVN
+MoRDn+rsKjRsSwciKxwWN8ym9i6i/rLZW9CJ+6qHxPHkn3TLQlqUWCOw7M8gOMM
ut18hKl0uzufITSEtB1s9shUZxog67dXKkzSEqLY4WjNuNyJIAgFk4Ad/IU0OaaY
6nhgwygJ1UKWqhHXqompXi4JnZEUJZZSM4m6tqNOsu/qYuarHNusqVP46V4BHPIR
D0jqcJTMOPnaZA1V7T9OBtCDyNOf/25fTfIdEAa9skV1wvqM+AoOrw==
=x/eA
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


Brian B. Riley --> http://members.macconnect.com/~brianbr
 For PGP Keys  

 "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary 
  safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Ben Franklin, ~1784






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jetta mf12 
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 21:18:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: here
Message-ID: <866ec756.353d6c2d@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

 


To: Jettamf12@aol.com
Subject: here
From: Jetta mf12 
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 00:00:21 EDT
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)

Click here to see my
pic




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Lucky Green 
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 15:14:30 -0700 (PDT)
To: Yupin Mungdee 
Subject: Re: GSM cellphones cloned
In-Reply-To: <199804211806.LAA05732@rigel.infonex.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Tue, 21 Apr 1998, Yupin Mungdee wrote:

> Lucky Green wrote:
> >A technical description of the attack is at
> >http://www.isaac.cs.berkeley.edu/isaac/gsm-faq.html
> 
> Does the attack work if the SIM is protected by an unknown PIN code?

A software-only attack with the SIM in a reader will of course not work if
the SIM is pin protected. A hardware attack on the SIM might work. As
would an over-the-air attack, since the user has to unlock the SIM to use
the phone.

-- Lucky Green  PGP v5 encrypted email preferred.
   "Tonga? Where the hell is Tonga? They have Cypherpunks there?"





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Marcus J. Ranum" 
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 23:01:27 -0700 (PDT)
To: Phil Karn 
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980422014512.0069aa8c@mail.clark.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


>I expect the main countermeasure to cellular position tracking will be
>the use of one-way pagers. Keep your cell phone turned off, and if you
>get a page when you're someplace you don't want them to know, wait
>until you leave before you return the page.

The best countermeasure is to reduce its usefulness to law enforcement
by reducing its success rate. If there's enough press coverage of the
fact that the capability exists, then clueful crooks will not use
cell phones. Just like with escrowed crypto, you'll only catch the
really DUMB terrorists. All technology aside, the best way to make
progress in this area would be if the next James Bond movie shows
the capability being used. Then even clueless crooks and drug dealers
will do the equivalent of "gosh, well, I saw it on TV!" and will
believe the threat. Hmmmm.... Makes me think that a great way to make
progress is for cypherpunks to start submitting scripts to hollywood
about presidents who get in massive trouble when their personal
communications are subpoenaed and crypto keys are de-escrowed to
prove that they had sex with office staff....

Nah, that's too stupid...

mjr.
--
Marcus J. Ranum, CEO, Network Flight Recorder, Inc.
work - http://www.nfr.net
home - http://www.clark.net/pub/mjr




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Illuminatus Primus 
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 23:43:01 -0700 (PDT)
To: Phil Karn 
Subject: Re: Position escrow (triangulation, cell "remailers")
In-Reply-To: <199804220153.SAA22662@servo.qualcomm.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Tue, 21 Apr 1998, Phil Karn wrote:

> I think you guys are worried about the wrong problem.
> 
> The E911 stuff is still years off. Even when it is deployed, it will
> probably work only during a call, though this may depend on the exact
> method.
> 
> In my opinion, idle cell registrations -- which are already standard
> cellular system practice -- represent the far more serious privacy
> threat.
> 

Wasn't Kevin Mitnick tracked down by triangulating the location of his
cell phone?  If the feds (or whoever) want to find someone's signal, it
seems that the tools to do so are already out there.. Of course, idle cell
registrations greatly expands the time someone is given to track down a
signal..

If someone wanted to passively track everyone's position all the time,
there would need to be at least two direction-sensitive cell towers
covering each area, listening to the same calls all the time. There would
need to be at least three to properly locate someone walking along the
line between two towers.. 

That seems a bit expensive, unless enough overlapping tower ranges already
exist to do something like that.  The owners of the towers would probably
much prefer that the cell phones come equipped with a GPS. 

On cell "remailers": Why resend the cell signal?  Why not instead set up a
generic phone call resender, which could be used by cell users and
non-users alike?  As long as you use the call resender for all of your
important calls, the feds (and others) will find it very difficult to
figure out what cell phone ID to triangulate or home phone number to tap
:)

-vermont@gate.net, revolting from the oppression of the sun





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Jake Shannon" 
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 16:50:19 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: I would like for me to subscribe.
Message-ID: <003601bd6de4$868cfe00$bcb7fad0@default>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




I did not have time to search for the list server address and 
I want to subscribe to the cypherpunk list.  Thanks for your 
attention.
                                                            
Regards,
                                                                    
Jake


From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Toto 
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 06:50:46 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Epilogue 4/0 - SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS!!!
Message-ID: <353DF5C6.418F@sk.sympatico.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Epilogue 4/0 - SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS!!!
_____________________________________________

		*** BIENFAIT NUTLY NEWS SPECIAL ***
	
		            *********************
		         ***KILL THE CHILDREN !!!***
		            *********************

  Thank you...I'm feeling much better (The rEvolution Is) NOW!

  As if confiscating the MeatSpace tools and CyberSpace home that the
Author uses to channel the violent demons warring to burst out of the
thin walls of moral character imprisoning them inside his brain wasn't
enough...

  THEY (TM) have been conspiring to inundate the Author with a multitude
of secret message transfers via the available cable channels in the
small community in which he resides. The blatantly subliminal messages
being ceaselessly spammed into the Author's MeatSpace environment, via
the TV cable originating at an underground Reptilain Nazi resort and spa
deep beneath LizardMoor Labs and Gold Retrievers.
  A typical day in the cleverly disguised nuclear/biological laboratory
in the small, quiet prairie town of Bienfait, Saskatchewan, begins with
a variety of subliminal messages pointing out to the Author that his
lifelong dream of being invited as a guest on the David Letterman TV
show, in order to confront him with the fact that the Author is carrying
Dave's baby (despite the lies being spread that it is really just a
'beer belly'), can never be realized unless he makes a concerted attempt
to cash in on the new, improved version of 'National Security,' commonly
known as 'Save The Children.'
[Editor's Note: Current polls indicate that unconstitutional laws and
criminal actions by those in authority are currently very difficult to
justify under the wrapped-flag of 'National Security', since an
increasing number of Americans are probing for weaknesses in that
security in order to judge the viability of attacking it in a
grass-roots rEvolution.
However, the 'Save The Children' scam seems to currently still be an
effective ruse for perpetrating all manner of self-serving
actions/injustices, due to the success of the government's efforts to
hide the fact that the 'innocent' children are murdering their parents,
classmates and total strangers at an increasing rate, by trying them as
'adults'.]

TV Reality:

Good Morning America: Interview with the authors of 'The War Against
Parents."
  Beats the drum of working parents being forced by government
regulation, corporate policy and economic reality into being overworked,
underpaid Bad Providers who get no financial support/breaks in the
razing of their children in today's society.
  Successful Singles and Childless Couples point out that they are all
in favor of 'saving' the children, as long as they are not expected to
pony-up their hard-earned cash to support the progeny of those who want
to multiply like rabbits at their expense.

Maury Povitch: Child Food Abuse! Felony Fat! Parents Tried As Adults!
  The Big Bones of government officials gets shoved up the rectums of
Big Boned citizens who are imprisoned and have their children taken away
for child abuse as a result of having 'overweight' children.
  The Defenders of Children Who Eat Too Much fail to point out that
society and government don't seem particularly concerned that these same
children, if they have no health coverage, or are 'protected' by an HMO
plan which needs to cut corners in order to give their chief officers
hefty pay increases, will be allowed to die untreated in a hospital
waiting room, at which point their parents will be guilty of 'felony'
child abuse.

CBC Midday News: Bad Medicine Reactions A Leading Cause of Death.
  Makes it obvious that even if the Felony Fat Kids prove to be
financially worthy of receiving medical treatment to counter the effects
of their parent's Child Food Abuse crimes, they still have a good chance
of dying from a bad reaction to the medicine being forced upon them by
government officials, and die, once again making their parents guilty of
'felony' child abuse.

The Fifth Estate: Save The Geese!
  A seemingly heartwarming story of CityGeese being saved from the
slaughterhouse by those who train them  to fly south for the winter
alongside of ultralight planes (complete with heartwarming scenes and
music from the official Made For TV Movie).
  THEY (TM) could not resist, however, slipping in a statement which
might seem innocuous on the surface, but is filled with deep, dark
meaning for he who realizes that, since he is now a toothless old fart
who can no longer receive messages from Mars through the fillings in his
teeth, that the Space Aliens who Hide His Drugs are sending him their
secret messages by communicating with him through the new Electronic
Reality (TM) based on TV-DNA and InterNet-RNA.
  "The problem is not an overpopulation of *geese*, but an
overpopulation of *people*"


Excerpt from "Save The Tiger" (c) 1978 C.J. Parker:
  "As Jack Lemmon kicked in a contribution to help save a dying breed
similar to himself, I realized that the Tiger did OK for tens of
thousands of years, until man got in the way, so that the true solution
to saving the Tiger was to kill all of mankind.
  "So I wrote a group-participation song dedicated to spreading hate and
dissension amoung those listening to it, and the crowd participates, not
just by singing, but also by killing each other at the end of the song."
	"The people on your right are homosexual,
	The guys have long nails and think they're intellectual,
	The women, they are dikes, and their friends all call them Spike,
	And they hang around our schoolyards late at night...
	  "They've won the right to teach school to our children,
	   And they'll turn them into faggots by the million,
	   Till the day will finally come, when you have to guard your bum,
	   With a K-Tel mail-order Asshole Protector,
	   Or your front, with a K-Tel Double-Dong Rejector.
	"Sing, Oh-Oh-Oh, you Dirty Mother,
	I've hated you from the first day that we met,
	And you know I won't get high, until I see you die,
	A slow and painful, unnatural death.
	   "And we can still Save The Tiger, my friend, it's not too late,
	   If we all get together, and show a little hate."


  It is blatantly obvious that the CyberLamers incapable of buying the
slightest clue as to the true nature of the forces set in motion at 9:02
a.m., 19 April, 1998, are reduced to intercepting the Messages From Mars
directed toward the Author's Digital Implant, and replacing them with
subliminal messages certain to lead her to the conclusion that, if
Freedom, Liberty and Privacy are becoming an endangered species, due to
their being attacked by the selfish needs of Innocent Children (TM),
then the answer to 'preserving' Freedom, Liberty and Privacy is to KILL
all of the Innocent Children.

  Thanks to the efforts of A DANGEROUSLY CRAZED VIOLENT PSYCHO KILLER TO
BE NAMED LATER, an Army of Dog, Cult of One veteran who risked bodily
harm in a night spent physically destroying most of his personal
property, even putting his head through the gyproc and pressed-glue
panelling of his home, the blood dripping from his chin onto his
keyboard, combined with the output of a million spilled Scotch and coke
drinks, wrote:
   "The only way to preserve Freedom, Liberty and Privacy in the world
is to KILL THE CHILDREN!!! who are responsible for the attacks on the
Constitution which are designed to 'protect' the Innocent Children.
   "Since it is imperative to KILL them  all, and let Dog sort them
out,  in order to uphold the concept that it is better for ten guilty
children to die, than for one innnocent child to wrongly be allowed to
live, the only way to truly 'save' a child is, therefore, to destroy
that child's innocence.
  "Those who are hesitant to do everything possible to crush the human
spirit of innocent children until they strike out savagely by committing
crimes so horrifying that society will allow them to be tried as
'adults', or those who hesitate to make every effort to put an end to
childhood innocence by forcing the children to face Reality (TM),
instead of The Fairy Tale That Passes For History--Past, Present and
Future (TM), should remind themselves that, If It Saves The Life Of A
Single Child..."

  The Army of Dog, MeatSpace Division, experiment performed recently in
Jonesboro by two young Army of Dog Warriors, has proven successful in
moving the two out of the line of fire in the battle being waged over
the lives and souls of Innocent Children, and has placed them under the
protective mantle which ensures that those convicted of murder as adults
will live a long and healthy life during the appeals process.

  One wonderful aspect of the KILL THE CHILDREN!!! approach to
preserving Freedom, Liberty and Privacy is that it has the potential to
unite the government and the citizens together in a common cause to
remove the pressing need to Destroy the Constitution in order to Save
the Children.
  The children who died in the bombing of the Murrah Federal Building in
Oklahoma City certainly have no further need of 'protection' by taking
away the Constitutional rights of their parents. The children who died
in the slaughter of non-mainstream religion worshippers at Waco
certainly have no need of further 'protection' by taking away the
weapons the Constitution allows citizens to possess in order to defend
themselves against religious persecution and government oppression.

  Those who have an interest in the preservation of Freedom, Liberty and
Privacy should make every effort to support the efforts of the New World
Order to gain access to all communications on the face of the earth, as
well as placing video surveillance systems in all public and private
areas, so that both Innocent Children and UnIndicted Adults can be
proven beyond doubt to be Felons Under An Increasing Number Of Laws,
thus negating the need for their Constitutional Rights to be taken away
in order to 'protect' them from the Bad People (TM).

"When Innocence is Outlawed, Nobody will be Innocent."
~ A Platitude To Be Named Later

  Since it may prove impossible for Defenders of the Constitution to
encourage massive numbers of children to committ Adult Crimes, without
overwhelming the legal system, every effort should be made to destroy
the childhood innocence of as many children as possible by helping them
to break through the deadly facade of Offically Recognized Mainstream
Reality, and realize that their inherent birthright of Constitutional
Rights makes them terrorist criminals at war with their government.

  Children, unlike Adults, are still capable of recognizing that the
screams of the babies, as their voluntary-mandatory SSN is slapped on
their butts at birth, are a newborn's way of announcing to the whole
world that...

			THE REVOLUTION IS *NOW*!





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: mscompia@microsoft.com
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 08:38:16 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Information From The Microsoft Personal Information Center
Message-ID: <02bbb4437151648UPIMSSMTPSYS08@msn.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Here is your password you requested from the Microsoft Personal Information Center at http://register.microsoft.com/regwiz/personalinfo.asp.

Password: writecode

If you continue to have access problems or want to report other issues, please contact us through the Write Us button at the top of any Microsoft page.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Phil Karn 
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 10:28:44 -0700 (PDT)
To: vermont@gate.net
Subject: Re: Position escrow (triangulation, cell "remailers")
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199804221728.KAA25486@servo.qualcomm.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


>Wasn't Kevin Mitnick tracked down by triangulating the location of his
>cell phone?  If the feds (or whoever) want to find someone's signal, it

Yes, but it was a very time-consuming manual process. *Any* radio
signal can be located in this way. As a sport, radio hams have long
conducted "fox hunts", aka "hidden transmitter hunts", where somebody
hides with a transmitter and the rest try to find him. Mitnick was
found with classic ham-style fox-hunting techniques. His level of
activity was so high that he made it relatively easy.

Nothing really can thwart this method, other than never using your
phone.  Its saving grace for our purposes is that it is so labor
intensive that it cannot be done routinely.

>If someone wanted to passively track everyone's position all the time,
>there would need to be at least two direction-sensitive cell towers

Almost. In CDMA, the mobile station locks its timing to the base
station.  This lets the base station easily measure the round trip
time through the mobile and back and thereby the radial distance. With
just one base station, you can locate the user to a circle around the
base station.  Defeating this is what I had in mind yesterday when I
talked about dithering the mobile timebase a la Selective
Availability.

Somebody then pointed out in private email that dithering wouldn't
defeat a differential timing measurement made by two or more base
stations. This is true, but these measurements are easily made only
when the mobile is in soft handoff (talking to two base stations at
once).  In CDMA, as in other digital cellular systems, handoffs are
"mobile assisted".  That is, the base station relies on "pilot
strength measurement" reports from the mobile as to which neighboring
cells it can hear so handoffs can be set up. If you hack the phone
software to lie about these measurements, you can keep handoffs from
being set up.  Your service quality will definitely suffer, especially
in the border regions between adjacent cells, but you will make it
much harder (but still not impossible) for them to locate you.

In analog, handoffs during calls are performed entirely by special
scanners in each base station. The mobiles do not assist the
process. Having only one receiver channel, they cannot look for
adjacent base stations while in a call.  CDMA receivers can do this
because they have a "searcher" channel whose sole function is to look
for pilot energy from any base station in range. While it would still
be possible for CDMA base stations to cooperate as analog stations now
do in locating an "uncooperative" mobile, this is not something that
could be done routinely. There are also near-far considerations
because every cell transmits on the same forward channel and every
mobile transmits on the same reverse channel, and tight power control
is used on both links to minimize co-channel interference.

Phil








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Phil Karn 
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 10:33:48 -0700 (PDT)
To: vermont@gate.net
Subject: Re: Position escrow (triangulation, cell "remailers")
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199804221733.KAA25507@servo.qualcomm.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


>On cell "remailers": Why resend the cell signal?  Why not instead set up a
>generic phone call resender, which could be used by cell users and
>non-users alike?  As long as you use the call resender for all of your
>important calls, the feds (and others) will find it very difficult to
>figure out what cell phone ID to triangulate or home phone number to tap

Exactly. And I think this brings the remailing concept full
circle. Wasn't the basic idea invented for telephones way back in
(alcohol) Prohibition days? As I recall, a device called a "cheesebox"
connected two phone lines. When a call came in on one line, it went
back out on the other. You'd place a cheesebox in some third party's
back room, e.g., a restaurant owner who was paid for the privilege and
to keep his mouth shut. If the cops traced a call, it would lead them
to the restaurant owner, who would tip off the bootleggers.

Does anyone have any historical references for these things? I think it
would be fun to see how an earlier age made use of anonymous remailers
based on a much simpler technology.

Phil





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jonathan Wienke 
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 11:16:33 -0700 (PDT)
To: Lucky Green 
Subject: Re: Position escrow
In-Reply-To: <199804212208.PAA22084@servo.qualcomm.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980422104042.02f10a40@popd.netcruiser>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

At 04:43 PM 4/21/98 -0700, Lucky Green wrote:
>On Tue, 21 Apr 1998, Phil Karn wrote:
>
>> This is a really difficult issue. Even the most diehard cypherpunk
>> cannot doubt the usefulness of a cellular position reporting
>> capability in an emergency situation, when the user *wants* the cops
>> or whoever to know where he is.  The big problem is how to keep it
>> from being used (or abused) for "law enforcement" purposes without the
>> consent of the user.
>
>Usfull != good idea. If the information is available for some purposes, 
>it is, or soon will, become available for other purposes. The only way to 
>prevent this is to not make the information available for *any* purpose.
>
>I gladly take the cellphone without 911 locator over the cellphone with 
>24/7 postion escrow. Furthermore, I content that there is no middle 
>ground between the two. Assuming of course the phone doesn't have an 
>active locator device that can be enabled using a special 911 button.
>
>YMMV.

Regardless of the type of phone, the cell stations can be designed to do
time-of-arrival comparisons on the signal transmitted from the phone and
calculate a reasonably accurate position.  If you don't want your location
known, don't transmit.


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Business Security 5.5

iQA/AwUBNT4rmMJF0kXqpw3MEQJLDACeNIUGb/troVJOuJhvX1g4z8itgdsAoLPX
WehkE2KpV3BTm9Z5w00ktqI4
=KzUa
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


Jonathan Wienke

PGP Key Fingerprints:
7484 2FB7 7588 ACD1  3A8F 778A 7407 2928
3312 6597 8258 9A9E D9FA  4878 C245 D245 EAA7 0DCC

Proud to be a charter member of the vast right-wing conspiracy!

RSA export-o-matic:
print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<>
)]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 13:17:49 -0700 (PDT)
To: Dan Geer 
Subject: Re: Position escrow
In-Reply-To: <199804212208.PAA22084@servo.qualcomm.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 5:01 PM -0800 4/21/98, Dan Geer wrote:
>    This is a really difficult issue.
>
>And how.
>
>How does this interact with phones whose
>access (telephone) number is non-unique?
>Could where I am calling from be divorced
>from what instrument I am using to call?
>Is there a parallel between smearing the
>signal over a spectrum of radio frequencies
>and smearing the identifying information
>over a spectrum of numbers? Could calls
>to 911 carry no phone number but just
>"here I am" information -- a panic button
>function, in other words?

Part of the problem in devising technical fixes for this problem is that
the technology needs some idea of position in order to operate.  Even if we
keep it to, "somewhere in cell X", there is incentive to make cells smaller
as usage increases.

One interesting, but unlikely possibility is an originate-only phone which
pays for calls with cash (e.g. Digicash, or a prepaid phone activation
card).  Since it can't receive calls, it doesn't need an identity.  What
would come out of the system is, "Someone in cell X called telephone number
Y."


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz       | If hate must be my prison  | Periwinkle -- Consulting
(408)356-8506     | lock, then love must be    | 16345 Englewood Ave.
frantz@netcom.com | the key.     - Phil Ochs   | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Phil Karn 
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 13:49:37 -0700 (PDT)
To: frantz@netcom.com
Subject: Re: Position escrow
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199804222049.NAA26335@servo.qualcomm.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


>Part of the problem in devising technical fixes for this problem is that
>the technology needs some idea of position in order to operate.  Even if we
>keep it to, "somewhere in cell X", there is incentive to make cells smaller
>as usage increases.

Very true.

>One interesting, but unlikely possibility is an originate-only phone which
>pays for calls with cash (e.g. Digicash, or a prepaid phone activation
>card).  Since it can't receive calls, it doesn't need an identity.  What
>would come out of the system is, "Someone in cell X called telephone number
>Y."

There's already a way to do this: cloning. This is not always done
just to avoid paying for service.  Certain cloners are entirely able
and willing to pay for cellular service, but they demand anonymity.

Somebody should point out to the carriers that they could get rid of
much of the incentive to clone phones if they simply offered a
legit way to remain anonymous.

Phil




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Success@mauimail.com
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 14:52:08 -0700 (PDT)
To: associates@success1.com
Subject: express mail
Message-ID: <199804222145.QAA00500@sparc.isl.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



You just stumbled upon something big !


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You just stumbled upon something big !


Pt or FT !No competition !No selling ! Not MLM !

$1,000 - $5,000 per week from home, within 30 days !

Daily conference calls !

Complete training and support !

Leads available !

Dear Friend,

	If your tired of the hype , then read on :

Everyone wants more and we have the system that can get it......

Over 20,000 doctors, lawyers, CPA's and business people, last year alone, started using our system to create wealth in their spare time.
 Many are making in excess of $50,000 per month. Speak to them yourself ! 

" I'm a chiropractor in Hawaii and use this system in my spare time to consistently make over $4,000 per week !"  Michael F. Makawao, HI

" I'm a single nurse and mom with 5 kids, have been using the system for 18 months,and last year alone, earned $400,000 !  " Melissa F., Parkersburg, IA

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bruce Schneier 
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 18:34:24 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Network Security Solutions Conference Announcement
Message-ID: <199804230133.UAA24801@mixer.visi.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


         Network Security Solutions Conference Announcement

                July 29th and 30th, Las Vegas Nevada


******************  Call For Papers Announcement ***************************

Network Security Solutions is now accepting papers for its 1998
event. Papers and requests to speak will be received and reviewed from
March 24th until June 1st.  Please submit an outline on a self selected
topic covering either the problems or solutions surrounding network
security.  Topics of interest include Intrusion Detection Systems (IDS),
distributed languages, network design, authentication systems, perimeter
protection, and more.  Talks will be an hour with a half hour for Q&A.
There will be LCD projectors, overhead, and slide projectors.

Updated announcements will be posted to newsgroups, security mailing lists,
email, or visit the website at http://www.blackhat.com/

Current speakers include:

Marcus Ranum, Network Flight Recorder CEO.
Bruce Schneier, Counterpane Systems CEO.
Ira Winkler, president of the Information Security Advisory Group.
Theo DeRaadt, OpenBSD Lead Developer.
Tom Ptacek, Secure Networks Inc.
Scott Waddell, Cisco-Wheelgroup corporation.
Dominique Brezinski, Network Security Professional at Secure Computing Corp.
Peter Shipley, Independent Security consultant.
Richard Thieme, Thiemeworks, Inc.
Winn Schwartau, Interpact Inc.
Dr. Mudge, L0pht Heavy Industries administrator.
Ray Kaplan, Meet the Enemy panel discussion, Q&A.
Jennifer Granick, Attorney at law.


****************************************************************************

It's late. You're in the office alone, catching up on database
administration.  Behind you, your network servers hum along quietly,
reliably.  Life is good.  No one can get to your data or disrupt your WAN.
The network is secure.  Or is it?

The Network Security Solutions conference has been organized to put an end
to concerns like these.  While many conferences focus on information and
network security, only Network Security Solutions will put your engineers
and software programmers face-to-face with today's cutting edge computer
security experts and "underground" security specialists.

Only the Network Security Solutions conference will provide your people
with the tools and understanding they need to thwart those lurking in the
shadows of your firewall.

The reality is, they are out there.  The choice is yours.  You can live in
fear of them.  Or, you can learn from them.

****************************************************************************
                          Conference Overview

The Network Security Solutions Summer '98 conference (Formerly known as The
Black Hat Briefings) was created to fill the need of computer professionals
to better understand the security risks to their computer and information
infrastructures by potential threats.  To do this we assemble a group of
vendor-neutral security professionals in the same room and let them talk
candidly about the problems businesses face, and the solutions they see to
those problems.  No gimmicks, just straight talk by people who make it
their business to explore the ever changing security space.


Spanning two days with two separate tracks, Network Security Solutions will
focus on the vital security issues facing organizations with large
Enterprise networks and mixed network operating systems.  Topics will
include Intrusion Detection Systems (IDS), denial of service attacks and
responses, secure programming techniques and tool selection for creating
and effectively monitoring secure networks.

NSS's intense sessions will bring to light the security and
misconfiguration problems confronting organizations and network
administrators, most of which go unnoticed by today's preoccupied system
admins where security gets put off in lieu of constant network growth and
upgrades.  Our experts will discuss the strategies involved in correcting
existing problems and any problems on the horizon.

Current Intrusion Detection Systems and strategies will be covered so that
attendees may learn how to stop these problems before they occur.  CIO's
are welcome, but they should bring the people implementing their network
strategies and building their applications, because this conference is
for them.

****************************************************************************
                                Speakers 

There will be 18-20 speakers covering two tracks speaking over two days.
Speeches will be more technically oriented and last 1 1/2 hours each.  The
goal of the talks are to inform the audience with quality current state
system vulnerabilities and fixes.  Because of our unique speakers NSS will
offer the audience a deep insight into the real security issues facing your
network with no vendor pitches.

                            Wednesday, July 29th

08:30 - 09:00   Breakfast

09:00 - 09:45   Keynote Address: Marcus Ranum - How to REALLY secure the
                                 Internet.

10:00 - 11:30   Track A  Richard Thieme - Convergence -- Every Man (and
                         Woman) a Spy. 

                Track B  Dominique Brezinski - Penetrating NT Networks
                         Through Information Leaks and Policy Weaknesses.

11:40 - 13:10   Track A  Ira Winkler - Information Security: Beyond the
                         Hype.

                Track B  Theo DeRaadt - A discussion of secure coding
                         issues, problems with maintaining OS source trees,
                         and secure program design philosophies.

13:20 - 14:20   Lunch

14:25 - 15:20   Ray Kaplan: Meet the Enemy Session.

15:30 - 17:00   Track A  [Empty]

                Track B  Scott Waddell - 



                            Thursday, July 10th

09:00 - 09:45   Keynote Address: Bruce Schneier - Mistakes and Blunders:
                                 A Hacker Looks at Cryptography.

10:00 - 11:30   Track A	[Empty]

                Track B  Dr. Mudge - Real world VPN implementation
                         problems.


11:40 - 13:10   Track A  Jennifer Granick - 

                Track B  Peter Shipley - An overview of a 2 year effort
                         in massive multi-modem wardialing.

13:20 - 14:20   Lunch 


14:25 - 15:20   Panel 1  The benefits and problems of commercial security
                         software.  This panel of 5 people and moderator
                         will explore what products work, and what doesn't
                         in specific applications. Q&A.

                Panel 2  The Merits of Intrusion Testing - What is the
                         benefit of having people break into your network.
                         A panel 5 people.

15:30 - 17:00   Track A  Winn Schwartau - 

                Track B  Tom Ptacek - Problems with Intrusion Detection
                         Systems.

****************************************************************************
                     Speaker Topics and Biographies

- - MARCUS RANUM, President and CEO of Network Flight Recorder, Inc.
How to REALLY secure the Internet. Is it possible to really secure the
Internet? With current technology and methods, the answer would appear
to be a resounding "no." We've tried security through stepwise refinement
and security through consensus - the best remaining solutions are
totalitarian and draconian.  Marcus will present an outline for how the
Internet could be secured through some simple, cost effective methods.
He'll also explain why it won't happen.

Marcus Ranum is CEO of Network Flight Recorder, Inc., and has been
specializing in Internet security since he built the first commercial
firewall product in 1989. He has acted as chief architect and implementor
of several other notable security systems including the TIS firewall
toolkit, TIS Gauntlet firewall, whitehouse.gov, and the Network Flight
Recorder. Marcus frequently lectures on Internet security issues, and
is co-author of the "Web Site Security Sourcebook" with Avi Rubin and
Dan Geer, published by John Wiley and Sons. 
                          
- - BRUCE SCHNEIER, President of Counterpane Systems and author of Applied
Cryptography.  Mistakes and Blunders: A Hacker Looks at Cryptography.
- From encryption to digital signatures to electronic commerce to secure
voting--cryptography has become the enabling technology that allows us
to take existing business and social constructs and move them to computer
networks.  But a lot of cryptography is bad, and the problem with bad
cryptography is that it looks just like good cryptography; most people
cannot tell the difference.  Security is a chain: only as strong as the
weakest link.  In this talk I'll examine some of the common mistakes
companies make implementing cryptography, and give tips on how to avoid
them.  

Bruce Schneier is President of Counterpane Systems, the author of
Applied Cryptography, and the inventor the Blowfish algorithm.  He
serves on the board of the International Association for Cryptologic
Research and the Electronic Privacy Information Center.  He is a
contributing editor to Dr. Dobb's Journal, and a frequent writer and
lecturer on cryptography.
                          
- - THEO DERAADT, Lead developer of OpenBSD. 
A discussion of secure coding issues, problems with maintaining OS
source trees, and secure program design philosophies.  Regular systems

software has many security problems.  A number of approaches at auditing
and repairing these problems have been developed as a result of the
OpenBSD project.

Theo de Raadt heads the OpenBSD project.  This 4.4BSD derived operating

system project has increasingly placed its focus on discovery and
repair of security issues.  Due to a 2 year auditing process by a
10-member team, OpenBSD is probably the most secure operating system
in common use today.  For more information, see
http://www.OpenBSD.org/security.html
                         
- - IRA WINKLER, President of the Information Security Advisory Group. 
Information Security: Beyond the Hype If you read the headlines today,
you would think that no matter what people are doing to secure themselves,
they will never be secure.  The reason this idea comes across is
that the media focuses on the threats and stories about unstoppable
geniuses that can compromise even the Pentagon. The truth is that you
can protect yourself from even the most diabolical genius.  This
presentation discusses Information Security from a Risk based perspective.
The threats to your systems are discussed, but more important the
vulnerabilities that actually allow the threats to compromise your
systems are discussed.  Using that information, you can then choose the
countermeasures you need to protect yourself and your organization.  This
presentation will show you that while there is no such thing as perfect
security, you can protect yourself from almost all of the most serious
threats.  Probably what is most valuable to attendees is guidance on how
to spend limited funding in the most efficient manner. 

Ira Winkler, CISSP is considered one of the world's leading experts on
Information Security, Information Warfare, investigating information
related crimes, and Industrial Espionage.  He is author of the book,
Corporate Espionage, and President of the Information Security Advisors
Group.  His clients include some of the largest companies and banks in
the world.  He is also a columnist for ZDTV with his column titled
SpyFiles.  He also functions as the network's security expert.  Previously,
Mr. Winkler was with the National Security Agency and was the Director of
Technology with the National Computer Security Association.  He has also
performed studies on Information Warfare for the Joint Chiefs of Staff. 

- - DOMINIQUE BREZINSKI, Network Security Professional at Secure Computing
Corporation. Penetrating NT Networks Through Information Leaks and Policy
Weaknesses.  The focus of this presentation will be a demonstration of how
Windows NT hosts can be queried for information and how the information
can be correlated to provide an attacker with a path of least resistance.
Even though many Windows NT networks have few remotely exploitable
technical vulnerabilities (buffer over-runs, flawed CGI scripts, address
based authentication etc.), most NT networks give away too much
information.  By analyzing the information it is easy to find policy
weaknesses that can be exploited to gain access to the NT hosts.  Custom
tools will be demonstrated on a small network. 


Dominique Brezinski is a Network Security Professional at Secure
Computing Corporation and has been concentrating on Windows NT and
TCP/IP network security issues for four years. Prior to working for
Secure Computing, Mr. Brezinski worked as a Research Engineer at
Internet Security Systems where he was responsible for finding new
vulnerabilities and security assessment techniques for Windows NT.  In
1996 Mr. Brezinski published a white paper entitled "A Weakness in
CIFS Authentication" which revealed a serious flaw in the
authentication protocol used in Windows NT (NT LM Security). It was
shown for the first time that an attacker could completely subvert
the network authentication in Windows NT to gain unauthorized access
to Windows NT servers. Mr. Brezinski has continued to demonstrate
advanced techniques for assessing the risks present in Windows NT
networks.   

- - RICHARD THIEME, Thiemeworks, Inc.  Convergence -- Every Man (and Woman)
a Spy.  Arbitrary digital interfaces - television, PCs, PDAs - are
converging, but that's only part of the story. The roles people play
in work and life are converging too. Intelligence agents, knowledge
managers for global corporations, competitive business intelligence
agents, sysadmins, hackers,  journalists, and CIOs are becoming
indistinguishable. Why does that matter? Because the ability to
synthesize and integrate information, manage complexity and ambiguity,
morph continually into roles appropriate to a shifting work context, and
somehow remember who you are - that's what matters most. Our
presentations of ourselves are the powerful levers that move mountains
in the digital world. Richard Thieme discusses why and how to do it.

Richard Thieme is a business consultant, writer, and professional speaker
focused on the human dimension of technology and the workplace. His
creative use of the Internet to reach global markets has earned accolades
around the world.  "Thieme knows whereof he speaks," wrote the Honolulu
Advertiser. He is "a prominent American techno-philosopher" according to
LAN Magazine (Australia), "a keen observer of hacker attitudes and 
behaviors" according to Le Monde (Paris), "one of the most creative minds
of the digital generation" according to the editors of Digital Delirium,
and "an online pundit of hacker culture" according to the L A Times.

Thieme's articles are published around the world and translated into
German, Chinese, Japanese and Indonesian. His weekly column, "Islands
in the Clickstream," is published by the Business Times of Singapore,
Convergence (Toronto), and South Africa Computer Magazine as well as
distributed to subscribers in 52 countries.

Recent clients include:  Arthur Andersen; Strong Capital Management;
System Planning Corporation; UOP; Wisconsin Power and Light; Firstar
Bank; Northwestern Mutual Life Insurance Co.; W. H. Brady Company;
Allstate Insurance; Intelligent Marketing; and the FBI.

- - RAY KAPLAN. Generally, "hackers" are regarded as criminals by the
"legitimate community."  Who are these "hackers" that seem to keep
whacking on our systems and networks? Are they merely scumbag reprobates
that should be purged from the society?  Is there anything to learn from

them?  This session is intended to introduce the two sides of the security
equation to one another in a forum which fosters open, detailed, honest
communication.  Bring your questions.

Who are the enemies of computer and network security?  What techniques do
they employ against us?  Are those that attack our  systems all just a
bunch of slime balls that are devoid of morals,  ethics, and common sense?
While in the minority of reported  computer crime statistics, the skilled
outsider still represents a  significant threat.  

This session explores who they are, their attitudes, their techniques, their
successes and their failures from the perspective of what we have to learn
from them to better protect your systems and networks.  This classic session
allows you to interact directly with members of the computer underground.
Join us for some stimulating conversation with those who computer security
professionals consider to be their enemies.  

Mr. Kaplan has been actively involved with system and network security as
a consultant for over half of his more than 20 years in the industry.
There is no question that he hacks.  However, he is not a criminal.  His
clients have included the world's largest financial institution, smallest
commodities broker and a wide variety of organizations, including
multinational and Fortune 100 companies from all segments of the economy,
and public institutions all over the world.  

Mr. Kaplan is a very prolific lecturer, instructor and writer.  He
consults, lectures and teaches technical system and network-related topics
all over the world.  His articles are frequently published in major computer
journals and magazines.  In over ten years of public speaking and
audio/video conference production, he has given over 2,000 technical,
tutorial-style presentations and lectures in forums such as professional
societies, seminars and his consulting.  As a frustrated inventor, he is
forever trying to rid the  world of inefficiency, frustration and waste by
pursuing new paradigms in the delivery of training, education and technical
information. 

- - PETER SHIPLEY - An overview of a 2 year effort in massive multi-modem
wardialing.  Security problems occur when obvious security problems are
overlooked.  One commonly overlooked problem is alternative access methods
to a corporate Intranet from an external machine. Many if not most
companies are overlooking their secondary vulnerabilities surrounding
alternate methods of  network access.

Mr. Shipley will present research covering an overview of a 2 year effort
in massive multi-modem wardialing.  His findings will include some personal
observations and the results obtained from scanning the San Francisco Bay
area.  When Mr. Shipley started this project he noted that there were no
published research references to wardialing or documented statistical
results of the types of equipment and computer networks commonly found
on the POTS (Plain old telephone system) network.  Mr. Shipley decided to
change that through his research.

Mr. Shipley Is an independent consultant in the San Francisco Bay Area with
nearly thirteen years experience in the Computer Security field.

Mr. Shipley is one of the few individuals who is well known and respected
in the professional world as well as the underground and hacker community.
He has extensive experience in system and network security as well as
programming and project design. Past and current clients include TRW, DHL,
Claris, USPS, Wells Fargo, and KPMG.  In the past Mr. Shipley has designed
Intranet banking applications for Wells Fargo, Firewall design and testing
for and, WWW server configuration and design for DHL.  Mr. Shipley's
specialties are third party penetration testing and firewall review,
computer risk assessment, and security training.  Mr. Shipley also performs
post intrusion analysis as well as expert witness testimony.   Mr. Shipley
is currently concentrating his efforts on completing several research
projects.

- - Thomas Ptacek, Network Security Professional at Secure Networks, Inc.
Defeating Network Intrusion Detection.
Network intrusion detection (ID), a technology that attempts to identify
attackers by monitoring network traffic, is fast becoming one of the hottest
products in the security market. Beneath the hype, however, lie some serious
concerns about the reliability of currently available ID systems, as well as
the fundamental techniques they use to collect information.  This talk will
explain why the most popular ID systems on the market can't be trusted,
demonstrate how to avoid detection by them, and, in the process, eliminate
some very widespread misunderstandings about the capabilities of sniffers
and intrusion detection systems. 

Thomas Ptacek is a developer at Secure Networks, Inc. His work focuses on
vulnerability assessment, which involves researching and testing network
systems for exploitable design and implementation flaws. In the course of
this work, his team has discovered some of the Internet's most serious
security problems, including vulnerabilities in Windows NT, Checkpoint
Firewall-1, and Solaris, as well as core Internet software such as the
BIND, INN, and Apache.
                         
- - DR. MUDGE, Administrator of the Boston L0pht Heavy Industries.
Real world VPN implementation security issues.

As one of the prominent members of the hacker group 'The L0pht', mudge has
been responsible for numerous advisories and tools in use in both the black
hat and white hat communities. L0phtcrack, the Windows NT password
decryptor - monkey, the S/Key password cracker, Solaris getopt() root
vulnerability, sendmail 8.7.5 root vulnerability, Kerberos 4 cracker,
and SecurID vulnerabilities are some of the recent offerings that mudge
has contributed to the security community. Mudge recently finished
cryptanalysis work with some of the top US cryptographers - papers
will be published within the next several months. The BBC, Wired
Magazine, Byte Magazine, and the Washington Post have all recently covered
mudge and the L0pht's ongoing projects.

- - SCOTT WADDELL, Cisco-Wheelgroup corporation.
  
****************************************************************************
                           Fees and Registration


Registration fees before July 10th are $995, after the 10th are $1195 US.

To register please use the online registration page at
https://convmgmt.com/security/reg.htm

Current payment methods include American Express, Master Card, Visa, and
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****************************************************************************                   
                             Hotel Information


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rates, reservations must be made prior to June 9. When making arrangements,
please reference Network Security Solutions.

The Plaza Hotel and Casino, 
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Phone: 1-800-634-6575 

****************************************************************************
              Network Security Solutions Summer '98 Sponsors


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replay attackers' sessions and learn what they did.

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the key to keeping it operating smoothly. Like our namesake, the aircraft
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firm. We are a virtual company based in Minneapolis, with three full-time
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consulting on Design and Analysis.  This is the majority of
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and system designs.  We can analyze all aspects of a security system,
from the threat model to the cryptographic algorithms, and from the
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suggested fixes.
**********************************************************************
Bruce Schneier, President, Counterpane Systems     Phone: 612-823-1098
101 E Minnehaha Parkway, Minneapolis,MN  55419       Fax: 612-823-1590
                                            http://www.counterpane.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Toto 
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 20:28:25 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Assume The Position, Escrhole!
Message-ID: <199804230328.VAA05034@harrier.sasknet.sk.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


  Lt.Carnal Karns, Antsin Mia Frantz, et al, are undoubtedly first class
TechnoWarriors and/or OhmResistance Fighters in the InfoWar being fought
on the new Electronic BattleGround. However, I can't help but wonder if 
even the most brilliant of technical solutions to potential BigBro tools
such as 'position escrow' are of any use, in the long run, if the majority
of society continues to unquestionably accept any form of unconstitutional
intrusion into their lives, as long as it comes in 'a pretty red box', or
is promoted by Michael Jordan as a 'must have' March To Battan model.

  I find it interesting that TechnoWarrior accomplishments such as the GSM
exloit seem to have more effect on the psyches of those concerned with the
'constitutional rights' of corporations and governments, rather than being of 
great concern to the average individual.
  I find it disconcerting that governments and corporations recognize the
dangers to their own position and power by an all-seeing BigBro, while
the Sheeple rush to take advantage of the latest in Digital Implants, in
order to take advantage of the 'convenience' and 'safety' that results
from having themselves, their children and their goldfish tracked and
monitored by governments and corporations from the moment of their birth
to the day of their last purchase at the '[YourNameHere] Tombstone Shop'.

  Perhaps what the Digital rEvolution needs is a Marketing Manager and a seat
on the NASDAQ.
  How does the 'Michael Jordan Remailer' sound? 'Nike Nukes', with a joint
advertising campaign with Samsonite and Timex?

Toto





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Kurt Buff" 
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 21:31:49 -0700 (PDT)
To: "'Marcus J. Ranum'" 
Subject: RE: Position escrow
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980422014512.0069aa8c@mail.clark.net>
Message-ID: <000301bd6e70$7ea6e020$7c293fce@kurtb.minuteman.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Too stupid?

Consider that the original SPECIES movie was sold as "Aliens with tits" !

*I* don't think it's too stupid.


| Hmmmm.... Makes me think that a great way to make
| progress is for cypherpunks to start submitting scripts to hollywood
| about presidents who get in massive trouble when their personal
| communications are subpoenaed and crypto keys are de-escrowed to
| prove that they had sex with office staff....
|
| Nah, that's too stupid...
|
| mjr.
| --
| Marcus J. Ranum, CEO, Network Flight Recorder, Inc.
| work - http://www.nfr.net
| home - http://www.clark.net/pub/mjr





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Austin Hill 
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 18:30:30 -0700 (PDT)
To: "Cypherpunks" 
Subject: Re: Position escrow (triangulation, cell "remailers")
Message-ID: <199804230130.VAA29002@wacky.total.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


The Navy's Onion Routing project (www.onion-router.net) actual makes 
reference to anonymous cell phone networks by using encrypted proxies 
(Onions).  The current implementation is IP based, but the briefing 
documents refer to any public networks including pager and cell networks.

-Austin
Quoted text from Phil Karn (karn@qualcomm.com ) on 4/22/98 12:33 PM

>>On cell "remailers": Why resend the cell signal?  Why not instead set up a
>>generic phone call resender, which could be used by cell users and
>>non-users alike?  As long as you use the call resender for all of your
>>important calls, the feds (and others) will find it very difficult to
>>figure out what cell phone ID to triangulate or home phone number to tap
>
>Exactly. And I think this brings the remailing concept full
>circle. Wasn't the basic idea invented for telephones way back in
>(alcohol) Prohibition days? As I recall, a device called a "cheesebox"
>connected two phone lines. When a call came in on one line, it went
>back out on the other. You'd place a cheesebox in some third party's
>back room, e.g., a restaurant owner who was paid for the privilege and
>to keep his mouth shut. If the cops traced a call, it would lead them
>to the restaurant owner, who would tip off the bootleggers.
>
>Does anyone have any historical references for these things? I think it
>would be fun to see how an earlier age made use of anonymous remailers
>based on a much simpler technology.
>
>Phil
>
>


_________________________________________________________________________
Austin Hill                                   Zero-Knowledge Systems Inc.
Chief Technical Officer                                  Montreal, Quebec
Phone: 514.286.2636                                     Fax: 514.286.2755
_________________________________________________________________________
"Anonymity represents for many people a liberating even more than a 
threatening phenomenon."
                                         -Harvey Cox, The Secular City





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bruce Schneier 
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 06:53:36 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: NSA GAK Report Up
In-Reply-To: <199804142336.TAA04962@camel7.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <199804231353.IAA25633@mixer.visi.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 11:01 AM 4/15/98 -0800, Lee Tien wrote:
>Do we know how the report was acquired?  It says "2/18/98  NSA, X3"  I
>think X9 is a standards committee for banks, cf. NSA's comments re adoption
>of 3DES; is X3 as well?  Is that where this came out?  Or was it through a
>FOIA request or a leak?

I believe it was made public by the NSA.

Bruce
**********************************************************************
Bruce Schneier, President, Counterpane Systems     Phone: 612-823-1098
101 E Minnehaha Parkway, Minneapolis,MN  55419       Fax: 612-823-1590
                                            http://www.counterpane.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 09:37:07 -0700 (PDT)
To: Toto 
Subject: Re: Assume The Position, Escrhole!
In-Reply-To: <199804230328.VAA05034@harrier.sasknet.sk.ca>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980423093515.007e2b10@otc.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 09:28 PM 4/22/98 -0600, you wrote:
>
>
>  Perhaps what the Digital rEvolution needs is a Marketing Manager and a seat
>on the NASDAQ.
>  How does the 'Michael Jordan Remailer' sound? 'Nike Nukes', with a joint
>advertising campaign with Samsonite and Timex?
>
>Toto
>

Bayer anthrax -with a special non irritating coating.
Sarin by Raid -with a pleasant forest scent.
Portable E-jammers and tempest gear from The Edge
Body armor by Calvin Klein
Martha Stewart's Guide to improvised landmines



------------------------------------------------------------
      David Honig                   Orbit Technology
     honig@otc.net                  Intaanetto Jigyoubu

  No electrons were harmed in the making of this message.

	










	















From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 09:53:19 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: CIA to Kids: I Spy, You Spy
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980423095352.007eb100@otc.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


	
Wednesday April 22 3:57 PM EDT 

CIA to Kids: I Spy, You Spy

By Jim Wolf 

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Central Intelligence Agency has unveiled a World
Wide Web site aimed at introducing the spy game to the
kindergarten set. 

The CIA's "Home Page for Kids" at www.odci.gov/cia/ciakids, features
geography quizzes, interactive disguise games and thumbnail sketches of
cloak-and-dagger figures dating back to the Revolutionary War against
Britain. 

It also showcases "Who We Are and What We Do," a very basic primer on
intelligence-gathering and analysis. 

"What we're really trying to do is encourage kids to use computers, explore
geography and give them an understanding of what the CIA does," said Anya
Guilsher, an agency spokeswoman. 

"We're also putting a human face on the people who work here," she said. 

The section on those behind the scenes opens with a shot of a woman
possibly meant to personify the CIA's vision of the American James Bond for
the
late 1990s. 

Slender, smiling and black, she is conservatively dressed in a white blouse
and smartly tailored outfit. Other pages give a glimpse of an espionage
operation, complete with a man wearing dark glasses and a trench coat. 

"If you worked in the Directorate of Operations, you would like to travel
and have a great curiosity about the world and its different cultures,"
reads the
text in the People section. 

"You would like to work with people from all over the world, be able to
adapt to any situation (especially dangerous ones!), be well educated, know
other languages, be good at working at with other kinds of people, and be
courageous, well disciplined, and able to accept anonymity," it says. 

The text goes on to explain that such undercover operatives -- whose job
typically includes recruiting foreigners to steal secrets for the United
States --
know they will toil chiefly in the twilight. 

"The rewards for the officer are the knowledge that he or she contributed
to the security of our country and is recognized by his or her peers," the
text
adds. 

The site lays out the work of the CIA's other three branches as well --
those analyzing intelligence for policymakers, solving science and technology
challenges ("To work beyond the state of the art every day is normal in
this directorate") and administering the CIA's estimated 16,000 full-time U.S.
employees and its $3 billion budget. 

One fringe benefit of the site, which went online last month, is that it
helps CIA personnel explain their jobs to their kids, said Karen Gilbert,
an agency
public affairs specialist who was part of the four-woman design team. 

"Finally people who work here now have a way to talk to children about what
they do here," she said in an interview at CIA headquarters in the
Washington suburb of Langley, Virginia. 

To appeal to children as young as six, the designers picked the CIA's
bomb-sniffing canine corps of Black Labradors and Belgian Shepherds to conduct
"first-person" tours of the CIA's leafy campus. The site will be updated
regularly. 

The Web site, which the agency said has been receiving as many as 950
visits a day, contains links to the CIA's signature World Factbook and the
agency's main Web page, said to get almost two million "hits" a month. 

The kid page has nothing to do with recruiting future U.S. spies, the
agency said. But job-seekers can read about pay and benefits by clicking on
the
employment tab on the main site. 

It stems from an executive order last April 19 in which President Clinton
told federal agencies to match White House efforts to put more educational
material online for children. 

The CIA effort, hardened against would-be hackers and housed on computers
separate from those used for its sensitive work, was done on "a real
shoestring budget," said Gilbert. 


http://dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/top_stories/story.html?s=z/reuters/9804
22/news/stories/cia_2.html



------------------------------------------------------------
      David Honig                   Orbit Technology
     honig@otc.net                  Intaanetto Jigyoubu

	"But if we have to use force, 
	it is because we are America;
	we are the indispensable nation." 
		---Secretary of State Madeleine K. Albright


	










	















From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Steve Schear 
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 10:25:55 -0700 (PDT)
To: Phil Karn 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 3:08 PM -0700 4/21/98, Phil Karn wrote:
>I expect the main countermeasure to cellular position tracking will be
>the use of one-way pagers. Keep your cell phone turned off, and if you
>get a page when you're someplace you don't want them to know, wait
>until you leave before you return the page.
>
>Perhaps if the "just turn it off" approach is widely promoted, the
>carriers and vendors will see the threat to their business and press
>for some safeguards. Otherwise they just won't give a damn.

Another, more sophisticated measure is to replace the omni with a
directional antenna (corner reflectors are pretty small at analog cellular
frequencies and above and can have excellent gain and front-to-back
ratios).  The disparity of your received signal between different cell
sites, plus the near-far problem for CDMA systems, could make accurate
location much more difficult.

--Steve


PGP mail preferred, see  	http://www.pgp.com and
				http://web.mit.edu/network/pgp.html

RSA fingerprint: FE90 1A95 9DEA 8D61  812E CCA9 A44A FBA9
RSA key: http://keys.pgp.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=index&search=0x55C78B0D
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Schear              | tel: (702) 658-2654
CEO                       | fax: (702) 658-2673
Lammar Laboratories       |
7075 West Gowan Road      |
Suite 2148                |
Las Vegas, NV 89129       | Internet: schear@lvdi.net
---------------------------------------------------------------------






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Dan Todd" 
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 10:52:42 -0700 (PDT)
To: "Phil Karn" 
Subject: Re: Position escrow
Message-ID: <002f01bd6ee0$67bcd480$026610ac@danhome.dnai.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


There is a similar (probably a number of them) service in parts of the US.
While visiting Michigan recently I saw a wireless phone with a "calling
card" from a company called Isis.  It appeared to be an anonymous, pre-paid
cellular phone but I didn't investigate to see if it runs on standard
cellular or if they ask for and verify personal information upon purchase.
I've also seen this product advertised on DSS (I don't recall what market)
and the commercial seems to support this as an anonymous service.

I guess the advantages are that is wouldn't give up any identifying
information while still allowing for tracking in an emergency.

cheers,
dan


-----Original Message-----
From: Geraint Price 
To: Phil Karn 
Cc: frantz@netcom.com ; geer@world.std.com
; die@die.com ; cypherpunks@toad.com
; cryptography@c2.net ;
Geraint.Price@cl.cam.ac.uk 
Date: Thursday, April 23, 1998 10:39 AM
Subject: Re: Position escrow


>
>> >One interesting, but unlikely possibility is an originate-only phone
which
>> >pays for calls with cash (e.g. Digicash, or a prepaid phone activation
>> >card).  Since it can't receive calls, it doesn't need an identity.  What
>> >would come out of the system is, "Someone in cell X called telephone
number
>> >Y."
>>
>> There's already a way to do this: cloning. This is not always done
>> just to avoid paying for service.  Certain cloners are entirely able
>> and willing to pay for cellular service, but they demand anonymity.
>>
>> Somebody should point out to the carriers that they could get rid of
>> much of the incentive to clone phones if they simply offered a
>> legit way to remain anonymous.
>>
>> Phil
>
>This technology already exists in Britain (I don't know about any other
>countries), where you can buy a mobile without any subscription information
>off the shelf. To use the mobile, you go and purchase a 'token' which
allows
>you to use the mobile on a pay-per-call basis much the same as a public
phone.
>I don't know the method of token implementation.
>
>The police have started kicking up a fuss over this technology as they
claim
>it hinders their investigation into criminal activity, because if they
trace a
>cellular phone which turns out to be one of this type then they can't pull
the
>info on the customer to go round knocking on doors.
>
>Geraint
>
>
>





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Matt Crawford" 
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 10:56:54 -0700 (PDT)
To: Phil Karn 
Subject: Re: Position escrow (triangulation, cell "remailers")
In-Reply-To: <199804221733.KAA25507@servo.qualcomm.com>
Message-ID: <199804231756.MAA16999@gungnir.fnal.gov>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


http://handel.pacific.net.sg/~seowjean/Mafia/mobname-c.html ...

Callahan, Gerald Michael 
(AKA: Cheesebox Callahan), 1909- 

Gerald Callahan was born and raised on the tough Lower East Side of New
York.  His father was a corrupt Prohibition agent who took payoffs from
bootleggers operating in lower Manhattan.  Through his father, who had some
loose ties to Tammany Hall, Callahan received his introduction to members of
the criminal underworld.

Gerry Callahan was good with his hands and proficient in electronics,
talents that served him well in later life.  After completing a two-year
course in electronics at a small college in Texas, Callahan worked at Bell
Laboratories, where he perfected his craft.

Armed with a wealth of knowledge, he quickly earned a reputation as the man
to see in the underworld if you needed a wire tapped or a phone bugged.  In
1931 Al Capone brought him to Chicago where he was hired to tap into the
racing wire, perfected by Mont Tennes who owned the Nationwide News
Service.  For years, Tennes and his associates had refused to allow the
Capone gang a partnership or a cut of the take.

The "wire," as it was known, disseminated race results to hundreds of
poolrooms and bookie operations directly from the tracks.  It was Callahan's
job to tap into the phone boxes, enabling the syndicate men to disrupt
Nationwide's service by sending along incorrect race results and payoff
information to the poolrooms.

Another favorite technique was to hold back results long enough for the
Capone men to get a bet down at the parlor even though the race had been
run.  "We wrecked at least twenty bookies, all of them big operators,"
Callahan recalled.  "We took a fortune from them.  The big guy in Florida
(Capone) was very happy, and I went back to New York with a suitcase full of
green."

Callahan completed at least 1,000 similar wiring jobs in his career and
never spent a day in jail, though he was twice convicted of violating the
New York wiretap law.  In each instance he drew suspended sentences.  In the
1950s Gerald Callahan earned the famous nickname he actually detested--
Cheesebox.  Working from his kitchen table in Flushing, N.Y., he invented a
small electronic device resembling a cheesebox.  It was a bookie's dream.
The cheesebox permitted a gambler to connect two telephones and speak with
his customers from a remote location.  This virtually guaranteed that a
horse parlor would be free of police raids.  Callahan installed his
cheesebox at a cost of $250 per unit and charged $100 a week in rental.  In
1960 he earned revenue from sixty of these devices functioning in the New
York area.

Callahan wore many hats in his day.  He was a self-described card cheat,
second-story man, and bookie.  Though he was out of the business by 1972,
the veteran wiretapper admitted that he would have enjoyed bugging the
Watergate Hotel.  "Only I wouldn't have used an army of men," he told a
reporter in 1975.  "I always worked alone.  I would have taken out (tapped)
every phone a distance away and set up recorders.  There's no way I would
have been trapped."  His autobiography, Cheesebox, written with Paul Meskil,
was published in 1975.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Geraint Price 
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 09:34:55 -0700 (PDT)
To: Phil Karn 
Subject: Re: Position escrow
In-Reply-To: <199804222049.NAA26335@servo.qualcomm.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> >One interesting, but unlikely possibility is an originate-only phone which
> >pays for calls with cash (e.g. Digicash, or a prepaid phone activation
> >card).  Since it can't receive calls, it doesn't need an identity.  What
> >would come out of the system is, "Someone in cell X called telephone number
> >Y."
> 
> There's already a way to do this: cloning. This is not always done
> just to avoid paying for service.  Certain cloners are entirely able
> and willing to pay for cellular service, but they demand anonymity.
> 
> Somebody should point out to the carriers that they could get rid of
> much of the incentive to clone phones if they simply offered a
> legit way to remain anonymous.
> 
> Phil

This technology already exists in Britain (I don't know about any other 
countries), where you can buy a mobile without any subscription information 
off the shelf. To use the mobile, you go and purchase a 'token' which allows 
you to use the mobile on a pay-per-call basis much the same as a public phone. 
I don't know the method of token implementation.

The police have started kicking up a fuss over this technology as they claim 
it hinders their investigation into criminal activity, because if they trace a 
cellular phone which turns out to be one of this type then they can't pull the 
info on the customer to go round knocking on doors.

Geraint






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: calendar@jann.com
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 16:04:00 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Thank you for downloading Calendar.pl v1.1
Message-ID: <199804232303.SAA15868@adept.wizweb.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Thanks for downloading the Calendar.pl v1.1!

I will keep you up to date on all enhancements and bug fixes to the program via email from now on.


Again, thanks!
Jann Linder
jann@jann.com

-------------------------------------
For bug reports, please send email to: mailto:calendar_bug@jann.com
For questions, please email to: mailto:calendar@jann.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Shari Steele 
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 15:20:52 -0700 (PDT)
To: bernstein-announce@toad.com
Subject: Oral Argument to Be Held April 24 in Crypto Export Case
Message-ID: <353FBC15.63BC@eff.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Everyone in the Akron area is encouraged to attend this hearing (8:30am, 
Akron federal courthouse) and show the judge how important it is that 
the export controls on encryption be repealed.  If you are able to 
attend, please remember to dress in your best courtroom attire and to be 
respectful of the court.

EFF and the Bernstein legal team wish Peter Junger, Gino Scarcelli and 
the rest of the Junger legal team the best of luck.  For more 
information on the Junger case, see 
http://samsara.law.cwru.edu/comp_law/jvd/.
Shari


       Oral Argument to Be Held April 24 in Crypto Export Case

    Stipulation of Undisputed Facts Filed in Law Suit Challenging
        Federal Licensing of Publishers of Encryption Software

                    Junger v. Daley on Fast Track

   ----------------------------------------------------------------

             Cleveland, Ohio, Monday, April 13, 1998
                        For Immediate Release

            
                    For More Information Contact:
 
                    Peter D. Junger (216) 368-2535
                    

                    Raymond Vasvari (216) 522-1925
                   


        Or see URL: http://samsara.law.cwru.edu/comp_law/jvd/
 
To be added to, or removed from, the list of those who were sent this
 press release, please send e-mail to .

     _________________________________________________________________
   
Cleveland, Ohio, April 13 --

Arguments in Junger v. Daley, the law suit challenging the
constitutionality of the export regulations on encryption software,
will be held in front of Judge Gwin on April 24 at 8:30 AM at the
federal courthouse in Akron, Ohio.  The parties have filed a
Stipulation of Undisputed Facts which is now available from the
cryptography archive maintained by John Young at
 and from the plaintiff's archive at
.

The suit was brought by Peter Junger, a law professor at Case Western
Reserve University in Cleveland, Ohio against William Daley, the
United States Secretary of Commerce, to establish that the export
regulations restricting the publication of computer programs used to
protect privacy and confidentiality violate the freedoms of speech and
of the press guaranteed by the First Amendment to the United States
Constitution.

Those regulations, which apply only to publication on the Internet and
the World Wide Web and by other electronic means, but not to
traditional books or magazines, have been extensively challenged by
the computer industry and by civil rights groups.  There is now
legislation pending in Congress that would relax or abolish the
current restrictions on ``exporting'' encryption software,
restrictions that endanger the competitive position of the United
States software industry and effectively prevent many within the the
United States from obtaining the computer programs that they need to
preserve their privacy.

``Those are very important issues,'' Professor Junger says, ``but the
issues raised by my suit do not just affect encryption software.  If
the government can restrict the writing and publication of encryption
programs because they are useful--and that is basically what the
government is claiming--without regard to the authors' and publishers'
constitutional rights under the First Amendment, then, by the same
reasoning, it could forbid the publication of any computer program
that earns the disfavor of the authorities.  At this time of year, for
example, I find it easy to believe that the government would like to
forbid the publication of tax preparation software that the tax
collectors feel are too good at detecting loopholes.''

Both sides have asked for summary judgment and it is expected that
Judge Gwin will be able to decide the case shortly after the hearing
on the 24th without any further proceedings, but if any issues remain
to be be decided after that Judge Gwin has set July 20th as the date
on which the case will go to trial.

``It is good to be back on the fast track,'' Junger says,  ``and I am
confident that the case can be decided without a trial.  The dispute
is not about the facts.  The only real issue is whether, and to what
extent, the constitution protects the writing and publication of
computer programs.  And a trial is not going to be necessary to settle
that issue.

``But this is only the first step,'' he adds.  ``No matter who wins in
the district court, it is almost certain that the other side will
appeal the case.  My lawyers, and particularly Gino Scarselli, have
done a wonderful job at considerable personal sacrifice.  As I think
about the prospects of an appeal, I only hope that we can raise some
support for them.''

A fund has been established to defray the cost of this litigation and
contributions may now be sent to Professor Spencer Neth, Case Western
Reserve University Law School, Cleveland, OH 44106.  Checks should
bear the notation ``Junger Litigation Fund'' or ``Crypto Litigation
Fund.''

                           
                                 -30-

-- 
Shari Steele, Staff Attorney	    ssteele@eff.org
Electronic Frontier Foundation	    301.375.8856 (v)
P.O. Box 649			    301.283.5337 (f)
Bryans Road, MD  20616		    http://www.eff.org/homes/steele.html





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 12:37:53 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: From Russia With Love
Message-ID: <199804231937.VAA26609@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


A CyberPsychotic wrote:
> So what you think?:)
>  I want to place it somewhere anonymously.. 
> 
>     ---------------------------------------------------------------
> the Black List
> 
> 
> 
The most honest page ever been made.

> 

> 

> 

> Disclaimer: The things covered in this page are just expressing my
> sence of the reality. I don't even pretend to claim that my own opinions
> express the minds of all the people around, even though I feel that many friends
> of mine would agree with me here. Writing it I just use my right
>  for "speaking freely".If you get pissed off you'd better
>  leave it NOW
> 

> Description: This page covers the (su|o)bjects which generally have been
>  pissed me off during my life, so I decided to publish 'em. Wonder Why?
>  Just because I want to.. If you ever want to contribute you may send
>  me your ideas to fygrave@usa.net However
>  if you feel like flaming me send it to separate
> address so i could sort it out:-).
> 

> Be ready for the most disturbing and pathethic truth you ever heard..
> 

> Remark:Most of statements here are provoked by Tequila Breeze. Alas, Great Drink.
> 
> 

> 
    
> 
  •  I hate the Fucking Country I live in...
> 
>  
     Why? There are many reasons.
    
>         
      
>         
    • This country makes me feel
>         like a bunch of monkeys rule it. They make rules and laws for people,
>         but what the fuck they don't follow 'em themsleves?
> 
>         
    •  They have fucking right to claim we are democratic? But why the hell they violate even basic human rights ?
>         
    •  They claim they build civilized country, but civilized country
> cares of its citizen, not robes them.
>         
    •  They claim that everyone is equal before the face of law?
>         But What the FUCK some are more EQUAL than others? And why the hell,
>         they forget of equality when things start dealing with MoneY or Relatives?
> 
>         
    • You may claim that there are some (lots) of things which are free for now,
>         and which are "real freedom". But i will tell you that's because those
>         Morons just are too stupid to figure out how to exploit it, or it is just being
> 
>         overlooked .. yet... But be sure they will sell your country to Yankee's Goverment some Day..
> 
    
> 
  •  Does it make you feel than any other country is better? No WAY.
>  Take a look on  Russia 
> with their moronic Drunk-head President and Puppet-like parlament
> or  United States
> with helpless president and crazyBUCK-ruled congress.I could state
> more arguments why those countries suck, but I'd better leave it for
>  those who  live there
> 
> 
  •  MiKr0SlopHt
> 
    
>         If you are Wind0gze user, i hope there are even no reason to
>  explain You why MicroSloft sucks. Ever have found yourself standing
> Helpless before their stupid GUI and "Can't remove tmp directory. Reformatting Disk C:.." like message and wondering for the XXXth time "why the heck
>  i started using Microsoft products?", or finding one day morning all
>  your files being stolen and removed due to lame security(read NO SECURITY)  developed by'em?
> 
> 
  •  Lamers and Wannabies
     ..
> Hah... there are no MORE annoying people than those who think they KNOW everything or peretend to ..
> 
  •  Fuckin' Elite 
    
> I just can't understand why those fucks claim they are better than me
>  just because their Dads made more bucks that I do, or they could
> 
> move their asses there and here in the cars while i have to walk.
> 

> 
> 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 13:27:27 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Position escrow
Message-ID: <199804232027.WAA04314@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Geraint Price wrote:
> This technology already exists in Britain (I don't know about any other
> countries), where you can buy a mobile without any subscription information
> off the shelf. To use the mobile, you go and purchase a 'token' which allows
> you to use the mobile on a pay-per-call basis much the same as a public phone.

Dan Todd wrote:
> 
> There is a similar (probably a number of them) service in parts of the US.
> While visiting Michigan recently I saw a wireless phone with a "calling
> card" from a company called Isis.  It appeared to be an anonymous, pre-paid
> cellular phone

Keep in mind that Timothy McVeigh thought he had anonymity with his
use of a prepaid 'anonymous' phone card over public payphones. He was
wrong. The testimony in this regard at McVeigh's trial was 'fixed'--not
in the 'facts' of tracing his identity, but in the 'timing' of tracing
his identity. i.e. - It was made to appear to be a longer and more
difficult process than it truly was.
It is highly unlikely that electronically-based 'anonymous' technology
is going to be any more untracable than meatspace-disseminated tools
of anonymity.

X-1.237Y-2.459Z-37.46Monger





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: youropportunity98@mailexcite.com
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 02:59:27 -0700 (PDT)
To: youropportunity98@mailexcite.com
Subject: We Mail 4 You !!!
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: TruthMonger 
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 06:06:48 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Epilogue 666/0 - SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS!!!
Message-ID: <35408DF6.5681@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Epilogue 666/0 -- SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS!!!
_____________________________________________

Imagine:

  An average citizen legally ordering a variety of books from legitimate
mail-order publishers and distributors, such as Paladin Press,
Loopmatics, etc., and having the books sent to a private U.S. Postal
Service mailbox in Buttfuck, North Dakota.
  The citizen picking the books up late at night and stashing them in a
safe place before heading across the Canadian border in the middle of a
variety of late-night revelers returning from the Land of Cheap Drinks.
  Canadian Customs Agents tearing the citizen's vehicle apart, even
tearing open the seats, in an effort to search for some mysterious,
unnamed items of 'contraband'. (Even though they had not done this on
recent, almost daily, occassions when the citizen had crossed at the
same border station *without* picking up the books from the Post Office
box.)
  The citizen, years later, receiving confirmation from Canadian
Government documents of Customs agents knowledge of the specific
pseudonyms the various books were shipped to, which should have
theoretically only been known to the publisher and the USPS.
  The citizen, decades later, reading the court records surrounding a
lawsuit against one of the publishers, and drawing the conclusion that
the Stipulation of Undisputed Facts signed by the publisher seemed
designed to ensure that their case would be lost and thus set a
dangerous precedent in the legal wars being waged against freedom of
speech.
  The citizen having a long history of being paranoid...and right...


Imagine:
  A famous activist actress journeying to a Communist country to express
support for their cause of leftist world-domination at a time when her
democratic homeland was engaged in a massive war with that country.
  The actress marrying a like-minded individual who built a media-empire
capable of manipulating world-wide opinion in regard to wars being waged
by the former head of a secret intelligence agency who, upon becoming a
world-leader, espoused the need for a New World Order while justifying
world-wide military action under cover of joint actions with the United
Nations.
  The husband using the entertainment wing of his media-empire to
provide the citizenry with non-stop, repetitive propaganda illustrating
GoodGuys in law enforcement and the justice system violating
professional ethics, and the legal rights of BadCriminals, in the
interests of a Good Cause. (Can you say, "Matlock?" Sure, you can...) 
(Can you say, "Twenty-Four Hours of Eastwood," "Forty-Eight Hours of
Eastwood," "Four-Thousand Hours of Eastwood?" Sure, you can...)
  The husband donating a billion dollars of the money he earned
manipulating the news coverage of United Nations Police Actions
to......the United Nations.


Imagine:
  A major new TV network springing up at a time when the BigThree no
longer seemed to be singing the tunes requested by the shadowy figures
from secret intelligence agencies who had been moved into industry
positions which controlled programming and schedules.
  Imagine that new network engaging in a successful march toward a
programming schedule geared toward promoting the existence of
extraterrestrial entities in our midst, and the safety of the citizens
being in the hands of armed, secretive federal government agents,
stop-search-and-seizure activities by armed local and state government
agents, video surveillance by government, law-enforcement, business and
private individuals.
  Imagine that network airing a story on May 7 which is designed to use
the individual heroism of the country's soldiers to gloss-over the fact
that their superiors threw them into a battle in which they could only
survive by engaging in the indiscriminant slaughter of men, women,
children and babies who rose to defend their homes and their country
from armed invasion by a foreign power.


Imagine:

  All major television networks, after receiving a gift of billions of
dollars of public digital airwaves, filling the airwaves with a plethora
of entertainment programs designed as propaganda to whitewash the images
of various sectors of the law enforcement community.
  The major networks providing their viewers with a wide variety of
entertainment and viewer-polls designed to suggest that their opinions
and beliefs matter, and can be adequately expressed by a phone call to
an 800 number, or by shouting along with the audience at an overweight,
communist skinhead who is beating up the sister he got pregnant for
having the Swastika tattoo surgically removed from the baby they stole
from a hospital maternity ward.


Imagine:
  Adam Shostack, sending a post to the CypherPunks list, "How I learned
to stop worrying and love anonymity," which was a clever take-off on
another post sent to the list which contained a movie-title from the
same era, "From Russia With Love."
  Adam's post being a tad 'too clever', since the 'other' post didn't
arrive on the list until over an hour later, although it had been sent
to the 'anonymous' remailer hours before Adam's clever mimicry was
composed.


Imagine:

  BadBillyG fleeing the country to avoid the potential MeatSpace threat
posed by a lunatic in a small prairie town who had driven past the local
liquor store while fiddling with his truck radio, and who continued on
across the country, through the heart of M$pace, on a soft-target tour
of North America.
  BadBillyG walking into an ambush halfway around the world, ending up
with more than one type of pie on his face.

Imagine:
  Reading Epilogue 666/0 of SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS!!! and finally
seeing the true extent of the Evil, far-reaching Web of Conspiracy and
Dark Energy running throughout all of civilization, government and
society, only to realize that, in the end, it all matters very little in
comparison to the fact that the rent is due next Friday, your cat is
pregnant again, and you're wasting your time reading the mad ramblings
of an asshole who forged your name to a post to the CypherPunks list
which made you look like a fucking idiot.

Imagine:

  Yourself hitting the  key...






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: moms@uniquehawaii.com
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 06:06:09 -0700 (PDT)
To: mothersday98@hotmail.com
Subject: Gifts from Hawaii for Mother's Day
Message-ID: <199804241128.HAA26049@mail.oeonline.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Aloha,
HAWAII NANI is pleased to offer you unique, made-in-Hawaii gifts that convey
the sense and spirit of Aloha and are very special ways to say "I love you"
on Mother's Day. May we suggest:

ISLAND FLOWER PERFUMES WITH UNIQUE CARD $24.95. Hearts and flowers decorate
this original cover of Mom's card.  And in a hand woven palm-frond "lauhala"
basket, decorated with lively Hawaiian print wrappings and bow, we offer two
unique perfumes of Hawaii.The gentle lavender and light yellow colors of the
Orchid have made it the royal flower of the Islands and inspired our
Hawaiian Orchid light perfume. The velvety yellow and creamy white petals of the lovely Plumeria
yield a soft fragrance reminiscent of the traditional flower lei of the
Islands and inspire our second delightful perfume. Both in soft spray and
made with Aloha, exclusively in Hawaii.  

ISLAND COFFEE BASKET  $19.95 In a "lauhala" basket, two bags of fine
grind,choice estate coffees from the upland plantations of Hawaii and a full
bar-be-que apron of quality cotton in traditional Hawaiian Tapa design or
our DELUXE COFFEE BASKET for $29.95 which also includes four distinctive
cotton Tapa dinner napkins and three bags of very special Hawaiian grown
coffee. 

LOVELY MALIA  $19.95.  A unique rag doll for little girls of all ages. Malia
is a raggedy island girl in a colorful Muumuu, the beautiful dress of
Hawaii. She's 20 inches long, has big, warm eyes and just wants to be
hugged. Malia owns no cars or appliances but she comes in her own "lauhala"
travelling basket and brings Aloha. Lots of it.   

May we airmail a fine Hawaiian gift  to you, or directly to that special
person ? We'll hand sign the gift card when you send a loving touch of
Aloha. Complete the form below and mail your order to: 

HAWAII NANI   PO Box 61928       Honolulu, HI   96839
    _____________________________________________________________________
YES, I want to send a Touch of Aloha. Please send by Priority Mail (cost
included)*

_____ISLAND FLOWER PERFUMES   $24.95
_____ISLAND COFFEE BASKET         $19.95 
_____DELUXE COFFEE BASKET        $29.95
_____LOVELY MALIA RAGDOLL         $19.95

I HAVE INCLUDED    $___________  . Priority Mail my Aloha gift to:

NAME___________________________________  
ADDRESS________________________________
CITY, STATE, ZIP_______________________ SIGN IT:from__________________  

Send US currency, check or MO only [outside US add $4.00 S/H per package].
Please include your Email address ______________.  Your ALOHA gift will fly
within five days of our receipt of your order. Look for other fine offerings
from Hawaii at our new webstore opening soon at: www.hawaiinani.com. If our
message has reached you in error we apologize. Aloha and Mahalo.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 07:07:47 -0700 (PDT)
To: inter@technologist.com
Subject: SHIFT REGISTER technology
Message-ID: <35409B14.3D9B@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Friday 4/24/98 7:33 AM

John Young
J Orlin Grabbe
John Gilmore

The stuff on linear and non-linear shift register sequences which is now
appearing on jya.com is the 'military-grade' crypto technology.

Semionoff and http://www.jya.com/crack-a5.htm contains material similar
to 
what I saw Brian Snow present in schematics of NSA KG units.

The statement by david.loos@eudoramail.com

  The A5 algorithm uses a three level, non-linear feedback shift
  register arrangement, designed to be sufficiently complex to resist
  attack.

points to the technology used for military-grade crypto.

The reason NSA regarded the R register, seen at
http://jya.com/whpfiles.htm,
feedback function classified was that it contained a non-linear feedback
function.  

I was ORDERED to build UNCLASSIFIED hardware.  This is why I stuck the R
register
feedback function in a fast ram.

This similarity between the structure of the nonlinear feedback function
in the 
CAVE algorithm seen at 

  http://www.semionoff.com/cellular/hacking/phreaking/

to the feedback function published in my SAND report

: A11   A1 A5 AND
        A1 0= A9 0= AND XOR
        A6 A10 XOR XOR ;

reveals  "military-strength" technology.  

SHIFT REGISTERS.

Words 'shift registers' also caused the Great American Spy Sting bust.

        http://caq.com/CAQ/caq63/caq63madsen.html


The Cold War is over.  And the crypto cat is now about fully out of the
bag.

Let's hope for settlement so that we can all go on to more constructive
tasks.

Later
bill






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: mgraffam@mhv.net
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 05:35:11 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: corvette.bxa.doc.gov
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

This morning I was going through my logs and I saw an anonymous ftp
connection to my machine, which ordinarily I wouldn't care about.. I
distribute my RSA keys from this machine.. but the connection was
from corvette.bxa.doc.gov, so I looked further at the FTP commands
issued and it looks like a bot. 

Several instances of "SIZE", even on directory names; it recursed into
the tree got some smaller files and that was it. 

So, I went sniffing. www.bxa.doc.gov:

"		Bureau of Export Administration Home Page

   The Bureau of Export Administration enhances the nation's security and
   its economic prosperity by controlling exports for national security,
     foreign policy, and short supply reasons. We administer the Export
     Administration Act by developing export control policies, issuing
   export licenses, and prosecuting violators. "

A quick web search for corvette.bxa.doc.gov brought up several "web
statistics pages" .. it crawls all over the place. It seems as if it
targets technical sites. 

I just thought you guys might like to hear about it. If anyone needs
anymore info, or wants the sections from my logs just let me know.

Michael J. Graffam (mgraffam@mhv.net)
http://www.mhv.net/~mgraffam -- Philosophy, Religion, Computers, Crypto, etc
"..subordination of one sex to the other is wrong in itself, and now
one of the chief hindrances to human improvement.." John Stuart Mill
"The Subjection of Women"

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0i for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv

iQCVAwUBNUCFIAKEiLNUxnAfAQFa0gP+LiSSMOy5kNi7nmxitrcO5xv1pbk3nWRk
rW984qlAr+1Y9PKAIrkSboT239RJb2L2+JYlCUvYxt7CeZMCHcjtrcbrxjiUxKeL
Vk6z/31BetWNkilE+fizfOHwhHnnHaJ8PgAlPGjmByjNQAHXSRBMZ1m00Z4hDl6w
TnM80Cds2BQ=
=J5FV
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 07:11:01 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: FBI Sued on CALEA
Message-ID: <199804241410.KAA19230@camel7.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


NYT's John  Markoff reports today on a suit to be filed 
today by the cellular phone industry against CALEA regs 
on wiretapping -- alleging improper FBI guidelines under
the legislation. A lead on getting a copy of the filing would 
be appreciated; U.S. District Court in Washington DC is
the venue.










From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 08:09:50 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Programmers flee Y2K problem -- and we're spooked too
In-Reply-To: <199804241433.QAA08228@basement.replay.com>
Message-ID: <199804241509.LAA17071@camel7.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Didn't Hal Finney recently debunk Y2K apocalyptic millenarianism?

Or is Y2K-mongering now competing with the elint industry for more 
domestic preparedness for techno-seancing, tap, tap, tap?

Pray 00-00-00 unplugs the global Echelons.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 02:39:08 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Traceability of Calling Cards, Phones, Remailers
Message-ID: <199804240939.LAA03555@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Tim May wrote:
> At 12:27 PM -0800 4/23/98, Anonymous wrote:
> >Keep in mind that Timothy McVeigh thought he had anonymity with his
> >use of a prepaid 'anonymous' phone card over public payphones. He was
> >wrong. 

> If I recall correctly, they determined that the same calling card was used
> to call various places. Once they had identified the card, correlation was
> easy.

It is even easier to track in real-time if one has prior information
in regard to the possessession of such 'anonymous' instruments, either
through in-place informants on either end (or both ends) of the
transaction.

> What I took from this was the advisability of buying a dozen or so cheap
> prepaid cards, from a machine dispenser or shrinkwrap/cardpack untraceable
> sale, and then not use any single card over and over again.

  Mr. May is astute enough to recognize that law enforcement agencies
are fully capable of reading (or writing) the same guerrila-outlaw
how-to books and manuals available to would-be anonymous activists, and
that it is dangerous for an individual to fail to use their own wit
and wisdom to add additional layers of protection and deception to
guerilla methods commonly championed.
  e.g. - a 'known plaintext' becomes one-step deeper when translated
into an unfamiliar language.

> >It is highly unlikely that electronically-based 'anonymous' technology
> >is going to be any more untracable than meatspace-disseminated tools
> >of anonymity.
 
> With all due respect, I think you're talking out of your ass on this one.

  One should be careful about insulting people named 'Anonymous', since
we come from such a large family...

> The math of tracing messages routed through a network of N selected
> remailers each properly executing a remailer protocol (e.g., accumulating M
> messages, encryption at each stage, etc.) is far, far stronger than
> anything McVeigh was using.

  Very true, but I was thinking more in terms of the pre-existing
compromise of the tools of anonymity which will be offered/marketed
to the masses.
  e.g. - Decades ago, after picking up a book order from Loompmatics
which I had sent to a cold-address (USPS), I shortly thereafter watched
in amusement as border-guards tore my vehicle apart looking for material
that they theoretically were not supposed to know I had taken possession
of, not knowing that my 'unreasonable' paranoia had resulted in my 
making a 'test run' before crossing the border with them.

 > I had hoped there would be many more remailers in use by the time the
next
> Big Event happened and involved remailers, but it appears remailers are
> spreading slowly and the pressure cooker is reaching the bursting point for
> more patriot or militia or terrorist actions.

  There are many more remailers in existence than is readily apparent.
The Winsock remailer software, for instance, has been modified to
allow 'clustered' remailers to exist on a single server, wherein a
number of individuals can channel their email to a separate in-house
remailer designed to give them an outgoing consistent persona that
is not traceable to their incoming message through ordinary man-in-
the-middle tracking.

Totoally Anonymous






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 02:40:43 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Epilogue 5/0 -- SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS!!!
Message-ID: <199804240940.LAA03770@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Epilogue 5/0 -- SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS!!!
_____________________________________________


A REPTILIAN NAZI WHO NARROWLY ESCAPED BEING MADE
INTO A PAIR OF BOOTS WHILE TRAVELLING THROUGH
TEXAS wrote:

> Hello, Toto...this is just a friendly response.  You sound just like I did
> when I was first exposed to Illuminatus! and Mexico City Blues...both really
> nifty books.

  Wow. You must have been some sick puppy...
 
> The whole reason I got involved in government work at all was because I needed
> to find out what it was all about, and I grant you, it's VERY EASY for a good
> "social engineer" to warp the living dogshit out of any organization, because
> the more hierarchical a structure, the fewer variables you have in bending it
> to your will.

It was this very Prince Apia of Physics that allowed Linda McCartney to
be secretly buried as an imaginary driver in the log book of a finely
tuned Volkswagen with a fifth-wheel which could be retracted when
outside the jurisdiction of the Kansas Control Commission, thus allowing
the Bug to be hidden outside of the prying blinds of the papparazzi,
whose long, reptilian tongues were busy snapping at fruit's flies.

> This all makes sense...BUT...this is America, and, as this mailing list
> illustrates, our population is not so easily subdued.  In my not-so-humble
> analysis (as a loud-mouthed student of propaganda), great propagandists like
> Ayn Rand and a few others gave essentially shielded us from herd-responses
> on a government scale.  

  Ayn Rand's 'propaganda' apparently didn't shield us well enough from
herd-responses to keep her books off of the best-seller lists, while
*real* classics such as 'Thinker Dumped' were used to prop up the corner
of couches around the nation.

> This is entirely unprecedented (and kicks ass)
> because we have an ACCEPTED CULTURE of resistance against any unnecessary
> controls.
 
  However, one needs to keep in mind that top government officials and
members of the military are being provided innoculation to provide them
with resistance to the cultures that they experiment with, while making
them illegal for the average bean-counter to possess.

> There will always be regulation-mongers who try to pull shit like the War on
> Drugs, but, as you can see, they lose public support *really* fast.  

  Lack of public support does not seem to prevent the regulation-mongers
from continuing their various forms of the War on Drugs over the course
of hundreds of years, while imprisoning and killing large numbers of
citizens, in the process.

> I don't
> know anyone in the military...INCLUDING people who are assigned to the "War on
> Drugs"...who think this is a good idea.  Friends of mine who have gone on
> missions to assist in drug-siezing have outright stated that they were going
> to watch for "stupid-shit" of which we all know law enforcement officials to be
> capable.

  And I don't know anyone in a child-sex ring...INCLUDING those who only
hold them down...who think this is a legal activity. Friends of yours
who have gone on missions to assist in child-seizing have outright
stated that they were going to watch for holes in the condoms being
used. "If it saves the life of a single child..."
 
> In other words, keep your head...because as you begin to fear imagined threats,
> you're much less "on guard" against REAL threats to your individuality.

  I've been keeping my head in glass canning jars, and so far I have
enough saved up to hold out for forty days and forty nights if the Y2K
Volkswagen results in a shortage of Tequila, Kahlua and Cream.
  I, and countless other citizens, are fully capable of dealing with the
REAL threats which life serves up on a daily basis. The 'imagined'
threats are the ones that truly need to be guarded against, as they are
the ones that the Oppressor uses most effectively to crush both the
spirit and verse of the Constitution.

> Hopefully, this rather opinionated little comment hasn't offended you too
> terribly.

  Well, I am rather thin-skinned, but at least I'm not thin-scaled...
 
> (Of course, I am aware that your response to my description of the reality of
> modern warfare could have been humorous, but I know some people actually think
> that there's some gigantic organized conspiracy to fuck with their heads.

  Some of the more mentally unstable of those indivdiduals actually
believe that they are receiving secret messages through their
televisions from large-breasted women who are attempting to sell them
fast cars, toothpaste and other consumer goods.

> There ARE a lot of tiny organized conspiracies, but you'd be bloody shocked
> to find out how little influence they really have.)

  Certainly not as much as the 'large' organized conspiracies...
 
> Tossing a golden soccer ball marked "Khallisti",
> Dxmxtxy

Tossing a golden lager marked "Pilsner",
Txtx





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 12:08:57 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Programmers flee Y2K problem -- and we're spooked too
In-Reply-To: <199804241509.LAA17071@camel7.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <199804241908.PAA07891@camel7.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Here's a Y2K contribution:

Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 13:49:00 -0600
From: Jim Burnes 
To: John Young 
Subject: Re: Would you like to archive something for me?
References: <199804091755.NAA32193@camel7.mindspring.com>
<199804141929.PAA08881@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------F5AD0F1DF82F490B65FEDE20"

Ok, here it is (the largest attachment I've done so far ;-) [See end]

Here is the skinny....

IRS is going to award the contract for its Y2K remediation
sometime in October, which is of course a joke.  By most
estimates they have on the order of 100million lines of
code to fix, much of it flakey and undocumented.  Any
Autocoder programmers left?  Anyway, the CIO of the
IRS quit recently and this file (prime.pdf) was his plea
for help before he left and bought gold or something.

If you go to the IRS page that Gary North references
this document is just plain gone.  Its extremely telling
if you look at the data flow diagrams for IRS administrative
systems.  Its so huge that a I had to zoom in 4 or 5 times
before subsystem names started to resolve.  I downloaded this
when it was posted because after reading it I knew someone
would eventually yank it.

Jim

PS: Some quick math: 100 million lines of code/1 million
lines per year = 100 years to fix.  1 million lines
per year is how fast the Social (in)Security Administration
was able to fix their code and even they won't be
compliant.  ;-)

Feel free to post this message (but not the attachment ;-)
to cypherpunks.

-- 

----------

What Jim sent is the May 1997 IRS RFC which shows 
the stypefying complexity of the IRS computer octupus 
and daunting job of fixing Y2K. It is in PDF format, 
1,248K in size:

     http://jya.com/prime.pdf

----------

The cause of bizarro endings is due to writing holding breath 
to assure short messages to please fast-glance Palm Piloters. 
Consider the last 2/3s as read to the silly end sigs for Lazy Boy 
broncos with nothing better to read, like Tim's blinking single 
liners for presenescent presbyopics.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 07:37:44 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Cutoff Date
Message-ID: <199804241437.QAA09658@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


ftp://billstatus.ls.state.ms.us/1998/HB/0100-0199/HB0196IN.htm

MISSISSIPPI LEGISLATURE

1998 Regular Session

To: Judiciary A

By: Representative Moak

                              House Bill 196

AN ACT TO AUTHORIZE THE REMOVAL OF A BODY PART IN LIEU OF OTHER
SENTENCES IMPOSED BY THE COURT FOR VIOLATIONS OF THE CONTROLLED
SUBSTANCES LAW; AND FOR RELATED PURPOSES. 

BE IT ENACTED BY THE LEGISLATURE OF THE STATE OF MISSISSIPPI:

SECTION 1. In lieu of any other penalty prescribed by law, the court may
allow any person who is
convicted for a violation of the Controlled Substances Law to have a
body part removed. The
convicted person and the court must agree on which body part shall be
removed.

SECTION 2. This act shall take effect and be in force from and after
July 1, 1998.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Greg McCollum 
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 08:39:34 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: Reality $trikes $BIG$
Message-ID: <199804251539.FAA29953@haleakala.aloha.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Are you ready for this?

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: wowitworks@yahoo.com
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 08:41:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Your dreams can come true
Message-ID: <199804251541.IAA02490@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: VeriSign Customer Service 
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 07:27:36 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Secure your E-mail with your Digital ID
Message-ID: <199804251426.HAA24586@toro-cm3.verisign.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Dear VeriSign Digital ID Holder:
 
We hope that you have been enjoying the security and convenience of
your Trial Digital ID. Our records indicate that your Digital ID will 
expire in 7 days. If you haven't already, please visit 
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Thanks again for choosing VeriSign. We look forward to serving your
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: planet@search-engine-help.com
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 15:11:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: your web site...
Message-ID: <199804252207.PAA03588@cygint.cygnus.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




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***************************************************
Note: We have contacted you based on information that we
gathered while visiting your website - If you would prefer
not to receive mail from us in the future, simply reply with
the word "remove" in the subject line and you will be
automatically excluded from future correspondence. Thanks
***************************************************

Thought for the day... 
"The only thing a man can take
beyond this lifetime is his ethics"
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: jdewayne@yahoo.com
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 12:02:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: INTERNET SERVICE Without a computer
Message-ID: <199804251901.MAA03353@cygint.cygnus.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


To be removed from future emails simply email 
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: pjm@spe.com
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 06:06:17 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: NT
In-Reply-To: <19980416032558.6663.qmail@nsm.htp.org>
Message-ID: <4155-Sat25Apr1998143656-0700-pjm@spe.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


nobody@nsm.htp.org writes:
 > Anyone know how to completely crash a NT
 > workstation with no possibility of recovery?

     Boot it.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Dave Emery 
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 12:36:13 -0700 (PDT)
To: jim@mentat.com (Jim Gillogly)
Subject: Re: IRS cratering
In-Reply-To: <9804251705.AA06849@mentat.com>
Message-ID: <19980425153547.A6607@die.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Sat, Apr 25, 1998 at 10:05:09AM -0700, Jim Gillogly wrote:
> 
> > Similar efforts in the past to modernize the FAA have failed...as someone
> > noted, the FAA and control towers are still dependent on vacuum tube
> > computers. The problem lies not with finding newer computers, but with the
> > software for the many subsystems, displays, communcations links, radars,
> 
> Is this really true?  They do have obsolete vacuum tube equipment, but
> I thought it was all radars and radios rather than computers.  The up-side
> of it is that vacuum tubes are more resistant to EMP than silicon... but
> I'm pretty sure that's not why they're still using them.
> 
	IEEE Spectrum of ran a story on this last year.  Apparently they
do have some vacuum tube radio, audio and radar gear, but all the
computer systems in use are solid state such as antique 360s and the
like with lots of custom interfaces that can't be readily replaced.  And
much of the software is such patched spaghetti that nobody has been able
to reimplement it.   But telling is the fact that most of the radar
display consoles are late 60s designs manufactured in the early 70s with
a 5-10 year expected lifetime, and wires and connectors and other parts
not normally replaced in the field are getting brittle with age after
20-25 years of continuous operation at temperature.  And maintaining them
and the computers is made harder each year by the increasingly total 
unavailibility of electronic components of the types used back then...


-- 
	Dave Emery N1PRE,  die@die.com  DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass. 
PGP fingerprint = 2047/4D7B08D1 DE 6E E1 CC 1F 1D 96 E2  5D 27 BD B0 24 88 C3 18





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Success@mauimail.com
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 16:33:35 -0700 (PDT)
To: associates@success1.com
Subject: Certified mail
Message-ID: <199804252329.HAA25154@pop2.pacific.net.sg>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: webface@moneymania.com
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 20:36:38 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: Tons Of FREE Stuff
Message-ID: <199804260336.RAA00794@pele.WURLDLINK.NET>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: decius@ninja.techwood.org (Decius 6i5)
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 16:40:26 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Surveillance of police raids...
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


> But the knock on the door and the presentation of a warrant is
> increasingly being replaced by these "dynamic entries." Given that this
> is exactly how teams of home invaders hit houses, and given the element
> of surprise, is it any wonder that many of us keep loaded and ready
> semiautomatic rifles and shotguns to repel such invasions? (And many of
> us use SS-109 green tips, which essentially punch right through
> ballistic vests up to Class III. How many SWAT members need to die in
> such raids before the courts restore the Fourth Amendment?)

These sort of "dynamic entries" and other cases of clearly burtal behavior
by the police are fearsome indeed. They also appear to be a problem the
public is very unhappy about... Rodney King riots to the public reaction
to Waco and similar incidents. It is obvious that if you hire a bunch of
people for an adrenaline intensive job where they will be taking down "bag
guys" with machine guns they are going to be difficult to keep in line. 
These aren't lawyers or philosophers. Its not the right/wrong for these
people but the thrill of the hunt.

However, I don't beleive I've seen any evidence that "keeping loaded and
ready semiautomatic rifles" is an effective response. Most people who
"fight back" seem to be killed quickley or (rarely) they get involved in
long standoffs which often end in death. Eitherway, if you do make it out
alive you will likely have racked enough charges against you in the
process of defending yourself that the original legal issue pales by
comparison. Do you know of anyone who has stood up to police raiders and
WON?   

The majority of cases that I have seen where abusive police "got theirs"
occured in a court room and not a "compound." The Steve Jackson Games
decision put a pre-emptive stop to a lot of unreasonable searches... It
doesn't really matter if the Secret Service understands *WHY* it was in
the wrong. What matters is that police agencies are aware that they can't
walk into a house and take everything with a plug on the premise that they
are investigating computer crime. Like it or not...

Now the issue of police lieing about a raid in court is at hand, and this
brings an interesting twist here for privacy advocates. Video surveillance
is an effective weapon against police brutality. Thats a fact. Many police
agencies have taken to installing "tamper proof" cameras in patrol cars.
These are effective in court when the cops are in "the right."
(Philisophical arguments about anarchy vs. democracy notwithstanding...)
They are also quite effective when the cops are in the wrong. One officer
in Atlanta was stupid enough to engage in an unprovocted beating of a
suspect right in from of his own camera. He's out of a job now.

One could imagine a CCTV system in a home with an easily accessable switch
which engages it. And X-10 remote is handy and could be programmed to do
this. The cameras could be designed to be unobtrusive. For real security
the video data would need to be streamed (over the net?) to a remote site
for storage and the system must be difficult to shut down under duress
without evidence of such coersion being saved. Audio data could also be 
saved. The nice thing about this is that the surveillance is in the
control of the home owner.  

Problem with surveillance is that its a weapon. I don't want to be
surveilled. However, I might wish to surveil others for my protection as
in the above example.          

	I absolutely hate the idea of cameras in the workplace or in
general public places. Especially in the hands of the government rather
than store owners. Crytography can protect you from phone taps, but what
can protect you from a network of digital cameras connected to face
recognition software? Thats the direction I see this overall issue
heading. One can envision a future in which all your online dealings can
be extremely secure and anonymized by virtue of crypto, but your
movements in the physical world are tightly monitored by automated video
processing systems...  

-- 
        */^\*  Tom Cross AKA Decius 615 AKA The White Ninja  */^\* 
                       Decius@ninja.techwood.org

"If the economic, social and political conditions... do not offer a basis 
for the realization of individuality, while at the same time people have 
lost those ties which gave them security... powerful tendencies arise to 
escape from freedom into submission." -- Erich Fromm





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Eric Murray 
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 17:49:52 -0700 (PDT)
To: decius@ninja.techwood.org
Subject: Re: Surveillance of police raids...
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199804260049.RAA27679@slack.lne.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Decius 6i5 writes:
> 
Tim May wrote:
> > But the knock on the door and the presentation of a warrant is
> > increasingly being replaced by these "dynamic entries." Given that this
> > is exactly how teams of home invaders hit houses, and given the element
> > of surprise, is it any wonder that many of us keep loaded and ready
> > semiautomatic rifles and shotguns to repel such invasions? (And many of
> > us use SS-109 green tips, which essentially punch right through
> > ballistic vests up to Class III. How many SWAT members need to die in
> > such raids before the courts restore the Fourth Amendment?)
> 
> These sort of "dynamic entries" and other cases of clearly burtal behavior
> by the police are fearsome indeed. They also appear to be a problem the
> public is very unhappy about... 

Not unhappy enough to make it stop.  I beleive that shows like "Cops"
teach people to accept police violence- it's always "in the right"
and the "perp" is always guilty.  Just another way that the System
tries to make a lie of "guilty until proven innocent".

[..]

> However, I don't beleive I've seen any evidence that "keeping loaded and
> ready semiautomatic rifles" is an effective response. Most people who
> "fight back" seem to be killed quickley or (rarely) they get involved in
> long standoffs which often end in death. Eitherway, if you do make it out
> alive you will likely have racked enough charges against you in the
> process of defending yourself that the original legal issue pales by
> comparison. Do you know of anyone who has stood up to police raiders and
> WON?   
> 
> The majority of cases that I have seen where abusive police "got theirs"
> occured in a court room and not a "compound." 

[..]

> Now the issue of police lieing about a raid in court is at hand, and this
> brings an interesting twist here for privacy advocates. Video surveillance
> is an effective weapon against police brutality.

[..]
 
> One could imagine a CCTV system in a home with an easily accessable switch
> which engages it. And X-10 remote is handy and could be programmed to do
> this. The cameras could be designed to be unobtrusive. For real security
> the video data would need to be streamed (over the net?) to a remote site
> for storage and the system must be difficult to shut down under duress
> without evidence of such coersion being saved. Audio data could also be 
> saved. The nice thing about this is that the surveillance is in the
> control of the home owner.  


Cool idea.  You could send streaming video (encrypted of course) to
a 'safe haven' which would store it until you need it to back
up your court case and send the vicious pigs to jail where they
belong.  Until you need it, it'll be safely stored and only you
can get to it.

However, there's two weak links in that- the net connection and
the safe haven server.  Once one set of cops gets nailed by
such a system, you can bet that word _will_ get around:  foil
any home surveilance system before the raid.  Of course that'll
be part of the 'evidence gathering' which is why you don't want the
cameras to simply record on tape in the first place- the cops will
seize the tapes as "evidence" and they'll become "lost" before trial.

The cops could cut your phone/ISDN/DSL line before the raid, but of course
that might tip you off.  Although with the rate that net connections go
down these days due to router failures, maybe it wouldn't.  

The other way for the cops to foil the system is to attack the
safe haven server.  Possibly just by tracking your traffic to the
server, then seizing all the server' operators computer equipment
(shutting down his business) as more 'evidence'.  A few cases of that
would convince most server operators that they should take up a different
business.

The third weak link is that the cops would simply kill you and your
family- if there's no survivors to sue, then whataver evidence you
have is worthless.


-- 
Eric Murray  Chief Security Scientist  N*Able Technologies  www.nabletech.com
(email:  ericm  at  lne.com   or   nabletech.com)          PGP keyid:E03F65E5




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Smoking Man" 
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 01:31:20 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Position escrow
Message-ID: <19980426083047.9650.qmail@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain






























>    This is a really difficult issue.
>
>And how.  
>
>How does this interact with phones whose     What, like a party line?
>access (telephone) number is non-unique?
>Could where I am calling from be divorced    If the standard of COM
>from what instrument I am using to call?     is uniform, yes.
>Is there a parallel between smearing the
>signal over a spectrum of radio frequencies  Radio frequencies are
>and smearing the identifying information     a physical representation
>over a spectrum of numbers? Could calls      of numbers...YES.
>to 911 carry no phone number but just
>"here I am" information -- a panic button    They could, and what if
>function, in other words?                    you hang-up in distress.
>
>I imagine I sound like someone calling in    There are no experts here.
>to an ASK THE EXPERTS radio show...          They don't broadcast.
>
>--dan
>
>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Smoking Man" 
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 02:06:30 -0700 (PDT)
To: gbroiles@netbox.com
Subject: Re: Position escrow
Message-ID: <19980426090557.27270.qmail@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



















































>I might wish that the government had the
>means to track every automobile's location.

...Planes come standard with ILR? (International Locator Radio).
Cars hav accidents too often for that...too expensive to serv it
maybe.








>What we need are cellphone remailers.

Some might. I'm not sure how much though.

>Third parties who want to use ordinary/automated cellphone tracking 
systems
>will get the physical address of the relay, not that of the phone.

Hmmmm. Same principles as remailers...Latency? Relay switching?
>number of antennae/base stations that the regular cellphone folks do, 
so
>it'll be harder for them to use trianguation and timing to derive 
physical
>location.

Contrarily, the fewer the remailers, the EASIER--could be only
one remailer to compromise.
Realtime Mixmaster? Heh. Parallel MixMaster.


>>I expect the main countermeasure to cellular position tracking will be
>>the use of one-way pagers.

That depends on the protocol they use. Simplex? Old things. Probably.

>But one-way pagers are a dying technology - and I'll bet that within 
3-5
>years, it'll no longer be possible to turn off cellphones.








>>Perhaps if the "just turn it off" approach is widely promoted, the

Won't hav too. How many people does it take to keep a secret?
Anything you say or do offensively, wrongly, or illegally can and
probably will be used against you somehow, especially if you
mention it or you're caught.
You hav the right to be silent.
No one has the right to understand you if you giv up that right.
You may purchase the right to authenticate financial transactions.

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 05:42:20 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: GSM A5 Papers
Message-ID: <199804261242.IAA30483@camel7.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


We would be grateful for assistance in obtaining copies of the
following papers, particularly the first:

  S J Shepherd, "Cryptanalysis of the GSM A5 Cipher Algorithm",
  IEE Colloquium on Security and Cryptography Applications to
  Radio Systems, Digest No. 1994/141, Savoy Place, London, 3
  June 1994, (COMMERCIAL-IN-CONFIDENCE).

  S J Shepherd, "An Approach to the Cryptanalysis of Mobile
  Stream Ciphers", IEE Colloquium on Security and Cryptography
  Applications to Radio Systems, Digest No. 1994/141, Savoy
  Place, London, 3 June 1994, (COMMERCIAL-IN-CONFIDENCE).

  S J Shepherd, "Public Key Stream Ciphers", IEE Colloquium on
  Security and Cryptography Applications to Radio Systems,
  Digest No. 1994/141, pp 10/1-10/7, Savoy Place, London, 3 June
  1994.

These are listed on Dr Shepherd's bio at:

     http://vader.brad.ac.uk/finance/SJShepherd.html






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 08:54:32 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Futures Doomed
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199804261554.LAA13050@camel7.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


More on the future of money in the NYT today, "Crime's 
New Cash of Choice," the Euro, which plans larger 
denominations than the mobs' favorite $100 US. If the 
Euro catches on, it says, the USG could lose billions in 
interest-free loans on stashed C-notes, unused except 
in the underground -- which the US turns a blind tax eye 
to because more revenue comes from the seignoriage.

   http://www.nytimes.com

Or:

   http://jya.com/euro-threat.htm

On competing millenarist doomsaying, the NYT has on 
page one a report on an exercise last month which 
revealed how ill-prepared the US is to handle a germ 
attack, with PDDs coming shortly to address anti-terrorism 
(with a Czar), and the squabbles among competing 
agencies for intel fed shock scenarios leading to terrific 
stockpiles of money antidotes, preferrably all non-fictional, 
but not likely since the report says that the PDD the 
President gets aroused at is Richard Preston's "The 
Cobra Event" -- sold out for miles around the bunkers'
intake vents of the germs' most wanted.

   http://jya.com/germ-threat.htm

Bear in mind that Kennedy's hard-on for James Bond
shaped a generation of whiz kids looking for gory galore,
the fathers of natsec implanted kids now in late boomer 
breakdown seeing the future all too clear, inclined to
predict their end The End.








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 09:21:48 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Hettinga promoted to Head Critic In Charge...
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199804261621.MAA10402@camel7.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Asgaard wrote:

>But Timothy C. May never 'claimed' any such things outside of an
>entirely humorous context. On the other hand, *you* obviously had
>some kind of fit some months back, feeling singled out by 'M', but
>now are remembering it completely backwards.

This is true. And helpful to file for future reference. Data show
that Tim's thoughts are not what they appear to be in text.

The needle -- yes, the mind-reading machine's analog -- jumps
all the way to left, Bizarre Humor, whenever no mercy emissions
emanate from the hilltop bastion's outgoing array.

Only unclues take Tim's deadpan assays for deadshot intent.
Those black talons are black jokes, Bob, laugh. You never been
shot at to keep you dancing? Don't stop, though, or the fun ends.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 12:44:24 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com (Cypherpunks)
Subject: 80% of cash is in underground economy!
Message-ID: <199804261943.OAA02176@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text


A surprising finding from New York Times:

Economists once believed that just 10 percent of all currency in
circulation was tied up in the underground economy. Now it turns out
that 80 percent is closer to the mark. Most of it is in $100 bills,
which are the largest available and now account for well over half the
value of the nation's paper money.

American banks and businesses hold very little cash. American
households are also loath to keep much of it lying around. Yet
according to the Federal Reserve there is enough currency floating
around to make it appear that every American family of four has
$6,000 or so in cash stashed under the mattress, including three
dozen $100 bills. And despite the ubiquitousness of credit cards,
ATMs and electronic transfers, the sea of cash has been growing
much faster than the nation's gross national product.

	- Igor.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 23:52:37 -0700 (PDT)
To: Eric Murray 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980426194558.00993820@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 05:49 PM 4/25/98 -0700, Eric Murray wrote:
>Not unhappy enough to make it stop.  I beleive that shows like "Cops"
>teach people to accept police violence- it's always "in the right"
>and the "perp" is always guilty.  Just another way that the System
>tries to make a lie of "guilty until proven innocent".

Fox TV is currently running a week of Really Exciting High-Speed
Police Car Chases and Really Scary Police Shootout Videos.
I doubt that the raid on Don Scott's farm is included....

On the good side, they're also running a few shows on privacy
and identity theft, though tonight's edition mainly talked about
getting of junk mail lists.  And they run The Simpsons.
On the somewhat hypocritical side, they've got a series of 
commercials about   
"Is this for the media to decide?"
"our news is really objective, just the facts, you decide",
while also running America's Most Wanted Thought Criminals
and "Cops Are Cool - Heh Heh - Heh Heh".

				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Illuminatus Primus 
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 17:19:25 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Screw You Packet
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


http://www.theonion.com/onion3315/screwyoupacket.html

   BACK * 22 April 1998
   _________________________________________________________________
   
         WASHINGTON, DC--In an effort to streamline degradation of the
   American populace and consolidate all forms of bureaucratic hassle
   into one convenient mailing, federal officials announced Monday that,
   beginning in 1999, the government will issue all citizens an annual
   "Screw You" packet.
   
         The packet, which is to be distributed in conjunction with
   federal tax forms, will condense the government's countless methods of
   abuse into a single handy 9x12 envelope.
   
         "The federal government's current citizen-persecution system is
   inefficient and wasteful," said Sen. Alfonse D'Amato (R-NY), who
   spearheaded the congressional task force that developed the "Screw
   You" packet. "This compact packet is not only cost-effective, it's
   user-friendly and intuitive. Simple instructions and easy-to-remember
   acronyms make the filing process as quick and painless as possible."
   
         The packet's easy-to-understand forms will free citizens of the
   nightmare of red tape normally associated with federal filings.
   Filling out and returning the "Screw You" packet is mandatory and
   easy. Here's how:
   
         The first step is to calculate your Economic Mobility Factor
   using the convenient EMF 1138 calculation sheet included in the
   packet. Those with an Economic Mobility Factor of 90 or above may mail
   or fax forms SC0089-L and SC0065-DD to their local Screw You EMF
   Processing Center. They may also drop them off at SYEMFPC kiosks
   conveniently set up at post offices and public libraries across the
   U.S.
   
         Those with an EMF between 30 and 90 must submit their forms in
   person to a Screw You EMF Processing Center Clerk. Such applicants
   must meet with the SYEMFPCC, and should arrange appointments via the
   State Application Auditing Appointment Bureau. Once an appointment
   date has been set by the SAAAB, a Screw You Appointment Confirmation
   Card will be mailed to you within three to four weeks.
   
         Upon receipt of the Screw You Appointment Confirmation Card,
   applicants will be required to register the appointment with the Screw
   You Appointment Registry Bureau. Failure to register the appointment
   within a 48-hour period will result in a fine automatically added to
   your estimated SYEMF-1138 quotient.
   
         The amount of the fine can be determined by using Screw You
   Fine/ Penalty Schedule 565612, which is available at all local
   Department of Fiduciary Adjustment branch offices. If there is no DFA
   office in your immediate Screw You zone, district, state or township,
   you should contact the Federal Department of Fiduciary Adjustments in
   Washington, D.C., and ask to speak to a Citizen's Outreach
   Representative who will look up the predetermined fine on
   SYF/PS565612.
   
         There is a $50 processing fee for any and all telephone queries
   to the FDFA. Those wishing to charge the $50 fee can do so by making
   three copies of forms SYEMF-1138, KSJU-387-SK, SKSP-90-EZ, and
   SC-2389, along with computer code 0100010 and ACC-842, and forwarding
   them to the Federal Department of Fiduciary Adjustments Postal
   Processing Center in Colorado Springs, CO.
   
         Forms received by the FDFAPPC will be processed and returned to
   applicants within six to eight weeks. Those who wish to have their
   forms returned in less than six to eight weeks may file a Fiduciary
   Calculation Acceleration Form 9056 at their local SYEMFPC.
   
         FCAF-9056 forms will be available Monday to Tuesday between the
   hours of 7:45 a.m. and 8:15 a.m., and are distributed on a first-come,
   first-serve basis. Completed forms should be returned to the FDFA in
   Washington, DC. All FCAF-9056 forms that have not cleared
   authentication via the FDFA in Washington, DC, will be rendered null
   and void, and will not be forwarded to the FDFAPPC in Colorado
   Springs.
   
         Applicants who misdirect their FCAF-9056 forms will draw a $10
   per SYEMF-1138 fine. The fine must be paid within 36 hours, or the
   applicant will be subject to house arrest and strip-search by the
   Armed Outreach Response Team, an independently operated division of
   the Screw You Outreach Consortium.
   _________________________________________________________________
   
   BACK * 22 April 1998
   (c) Copyright 1998 Onion, Inc., All rights reserved. View masthead for
   more information.
   Questions/comments? Please consult our contact information page.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Duncan Frissell 
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 18:33:56 -0700 (PDT)
To: John Young 
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980426213206.006917e0@panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 11:53 AM 4/26/98 -0400, John Young wrote:
>More on the future of money in the NYT today, "Crime's 
>New Cash of Choice," the Euro, which plans larger 
>denominations than the mobs' favorite $100 US. If the 
>Euro catches on, it says, the USG could lose billions in 
>interest-free loans on stashed C-notes, unused except 
>in the underground -- which the US turns a blind tax eye 
>to because more revenue comes from the seignoriage.

Why haven't the undergrounders adopted the SF1000 note (just under $700 these days)?  Nice denomination.

DCF




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Edwin E. Smith" 
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 19:14:38 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Futures Doomed
In-Reply-To: <199804261554.LAA13050@camel7.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980426221358.0085ea80@mailhost.IntNet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 09:32 PM 4/26/98 -0400, you wrote:
>At 11:53 AM 4/26/98 -0400, John Young wrote:
>>More on the future of money in the NYT today, "Crime's 
>>New Cash of Choice," the Euro, which plans larger 
>>denominations than the mobs' favorite $100 US. If the 
>>Euro catches on, it says, the USG could lose billions in 
>>interest-free loans on stashed C-notes, unused except 
>>in the underground -- which the US turns a blind tax eye 
>>to because more revenue comes from the seignoriage.
>
>Why haven't the undergrounders adopted the SF1000 note (just under $700
these days)?  Nice denomination.
>
>DCF
>

When was the last time you bought $700 worth of crack? :-)


When freedom is outlawed.......Only outlaws will be free!

If cryptography is outlawed, pomz pvumbxt xjmm ibwf dszquphsbqiz.

Fun! Fast! Revealing! Try "The World's Smallest Political Quiz" at:
   http://www.self-gov.org/quiz.html

IS AIDS A GOVERNMENT/DRUG COMPANY HOAX?
   http://www.virusmyth.com/aids/index.htm




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Iwar 
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 20:09:55 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Fwd: Whitehouse news flash!!!
Message-ID: <1add694c.3543f6da@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Subject: Whitehouse news flash!!!
From: WhiteHouse@aol.com
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 20:02:19 -0700 (PDT)
Reply-To: twang38@aol.com

Click Here for more
information!!





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 23:53:51 -0700 (PDT)
To: Geraint Price 
Subject: Re: Position escrow
In-Reply-To: <199804222049.NAA26335@servo.qualcomm.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980426233526.00983100@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


>This technology already exists in Britain (I don't know about any other 
>countries), where you can buy a mobile without any subscription information 
>off the shelf. To use the mobile, you go and purchase a 'token' which allows 
>you to use the mobile on a pay-per-call basis much the same as a public phone. 
>I don't know the method of token implementation.
>
>The police have started kicking up a fuss over this technology as they claim 
>it hinders their investigation into criminal activity, because if they trace a 
>cellular phone which turns out to be one of this type then they can't pull the 
>info on the customer to go round knocking on doors.

As usual, some of the important questions are scale, threat model,
and economics.

If you're in the Retail Pharmaceuticals business, trying to
solve the problem for yourself and a few of your best customers,
it's much simpler than solving the problem for The Masses.
Steal some cellphones, or steal some credit cards and buy some
cellphones, or hire a street person to rent a cell phone for you.
If the cops know they're looking for cellphone 202-654-3210,
they can call you, but they don't know who you are,
and even direction finders may only tell them that
the holder of that phone is somebody walking down Pennsylvania Ave.
On the other hand, if the cops are looking for _you_,
they may not have your phone number.

The Cheesebox story was quite nice, and would work better today, 
with automated PBXs available - it would have worked
even better 10 years ago, when PBX hacking was easier.

Another small-scale solution is to use ham radio repeaters with
phone patches, assuming they're still widely available.
Tracing it tells the cops they need to go find an FCC RDF truck
to drive around South Silicon Valley looking for someone
with a pocket-sized 2m or 70cm handheld radio who doesn't
talk more than 1 minute at a time, or maybe just listens.
If they catch you, you could be in Big Big Trouble for using
a ham radio without a license!

Another part of the scale is that not only is tracing a lot of work,
as others have pointed out, but not everybody goes taunting
Tsutomo and continually reminding everybody that they
haven't yet caught him, the way Dread Pirate Mitnick allegedly did.
If you're just Yet Another Pot Dealer, the FBI, NSA and FCC will 
probably tell your local police that a 75-gram dope deal is
less important that Cliff Stoll's 75-cent accounting difference.

On the other hand, maintaining a professional level of paranoia
all the time while doing business for a few years is more than
most FBI Targets are willing to bother doing.
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Nobuki Nakatuji" 
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 00:25:00 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: NTT Develops Secure Public-Key Encryption Scheme
Message-ID: <19980427072427.17097.qmail@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


http://pr.info.ntt.co.jp/news/news98e/980416.html

          Nippon Telegraph and Telephone Corporation (NTT) announced 
today the development of 
          Efficient Probabilistic Public-Key Encryption (EPOC), a highly 
secure and mathematically 
          verified public-key encryption scheme that encrypts 
information on the transmission side 
          with a public-key (encryption key) and then decrypts it on the 
receiver side with a secret
          -key (decryption key).

          Encryption technology has become necessary to prevent 
information on the Internet from 
          being monitored by others without authorization. Public-key 
encryption is being widely 
          researched as a practical means of encrypting communication 
for security.

          The paramount feature of any public-key encryption schemes is 
ensuring that figuring out 
          the decryption key from the encryption key is as difficult as 
possible, to prevent 
          unauthorized use of ciphered information. The RSA*1 scheme 
uses factoring and the elliptic 
          curve encryption scheme*2 uses elliptic curve discrete 
logarithms, both of which can take 
          a supercomputer a very long time to determine the key. It has 
not been verified, however, 
          that either scheme provides the necessary security to prevent 
ciphered information from 
          being broken by a method other than factoring or elliptic 
curve discrete logarithms. The 
          Rabin encryption scheme*3, which also uses factoring, offers 
no algorithm other than 
          factoring for computing the complete plain-text, but it has 
not been proven that any bit 
          of plain-text cannot be computed.

          EPOC is a practical scheme in that the computer computation 
workload for encrypting and 
          decrypting is about the same as that for the RSA and elliptic 
curve encryption schemes. 
          Also, EPOC is a highly secure scheme which uses a trapdoor 
discrete logarithm*4  as the 
          key mathematical technique and can be broken only by 
factoring. Factoring is difficult 
          to accomplish, even with a supercomputer, and the probability 
that an efficient solution 
          to factoring will be found soon is very low, because 
mathematicians have been studying 
          the problem for years. EPOC ensures that partial, as well as 
whole, texts cannot be broken. 
          Finally, EPOC uses probabilistic encryption, so re-encrypted 
text is encrypted differently 
          each time, unlike the Rabin and RSA scheme, which use 
deterministic encryption.
           
          NTT now plans to incorporate EPOC in systems for enhanced 
security on the Internet. 
          Public-key encryption is used primarily for key distribution, 
because computation load is 
          greater than that for secret-key encryption*5, so EPOC will be 
used in existing encryption 
          modules for key distribution.

          Other applications will also be developed. In particular, EPOC 
is suitable for electronic 
          voting and anonymous telecommunication since it has a 
homomorphic property, unlike the RSA, 
          Rabin and elliptic curve encryption schemes. The theoretical 
details will be presented at 
          Eurocrypt '98 in Finland this June. 


          Notes:  

          *1: The RSA scheme was developed by Rivest, Shamir, and 
Adleman in 1978 and is based on 
          the difficulty of factoring. It was the first public-key 
encryption scheme.

          *2: The elliptic curve encryption scheme was proposed 
independently by Miller and Koblitz 
          in 1985 and is based on the difficulty of elliptic curve 
discrete logarithms. The basic 
          technique is based on a scheme developed by Diffie and Hellman 
in 1976.

          *3: The Rabin scheme was developed by Rabin in 1979 and is 
based on the difficulty of 
          factoring. It was the first public-key encryption scheme to 
verify the impossibility of 
          breaking a complete text without factoring the public-key.
          *4: A trapdoor discrete logarithm is a newly discovered 
discrete logarithm problem that 
          can be solved only if a secret-key is known.

          *5: Secret-key encryption differs from public-key encryption 
in that the sender and the 
          receiver use the same key for encryption and decryption.





______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Rabid Wombat 
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 14:52:36 -0700 (PDT)
To: TruthMonger 
Subject: Re: Justice
In-Reply-To: <3544F494.654@replay.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



This is the best troll I've seen on the list in a while ...

On Mon, 27 Apr 1998, TruthMonger wrote:

> "Justice is incidental to law and order."
> ~ J. Edgar Hoover
> 
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 09:40:33 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: LA DA's illegal wiretaps revealed ---LA Times
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980427094006.007bcb60@otc.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Fans of CALEA, take note.



                                                  Sunday, April 26, 1998 

             THE STATE 
             Can the L.A. Criminal-Justice System Work Without Trust?

             By CHARLES L. LINDNER

[excerpt] 
in the wake of the discovery that
deputy district attorneys assigned to its narcotics unit have relied on
secret wiretaps for years to gather evidence against their
clients--and no one, including judges, knew about the practice.
Beyond the obvious legal question of whether the district attorney
knowingly violated the 4th Amendments's prohibition against
unreasonable search and seizure is one that cannot be resolved in
court: Can the county's criminal-justice system carry on in an
atmosphere of mistrust? 

...

LAPD officers have avoided revealing the existence of their
electronic intercepts using a police procedure known as "the handoff
technique." It works like this: Narcotics officers on "Team A" set up
a wiretap to gather information on a suspect. Without identifying the
source of their information, the officers turn over the wiretap's
"intelligence product" to detectives from "Team B," also members of
LAPD's narcotics unit. Using the intelligence product, "Team B"
officers set about trying to gather facts independently that would
provide "probable cause" for a second judge to sign a search warrant
targeting another suspect, without the cops disclosing the existence of
the first wiretap to the jurist. 
It is not hard to imagine the potential harm from this
police-prosecution malfeasance. If an investigation focused on a
pharmacist, for instance, the police would have a taped record of
every prescription for every patient and physician who called the
pharmacy. By law, these wiretaps are preserved for 10 years, so the
potential damage to an innocent citizen having his or her private calls
intercepted is significant. 

What aggravates the misconduct is the likelihood that neither the
police nor the "wiretap judge" followed the legal requirement that the
police file written progress reports every 72 hours, and that the judge
make a decision every 72 hours on whether a tap can continue.
There is strong reason to suspect that neither the judiciary nor the
Legislature has been "minding the store." For example, a judge issuing
a wiretap order must inform any person whose voice was
wiretapped within 90 days and supply the person with an inventory of
what was recorded. Similarly, Atty. Gen. Dan Lungren is required to
provide a detailed report to the Legislature and state Judicial Council
each April regarding the number and duration of all wiretaps
conducted by every law-enforcement agency in the state. As of last
week, neither the Judicial Council nor Chairman John Vasconcellos'
Senate Public Safety Committee could find a copy. 
Finally, no public defender or private criminal lawyer has been given
the legally required inventory since 1985, when the secret wiretaps
began. According to Public Defender Michael P. Judge, the public
record discloses only three reported wiretaps by local law
enforcement during 1997--two by the LAPD and one by the county
Sheriff's Department. It is simply mind-boggling that, for the last 13
years, on hundreds of occasions when the court or opposing counsel
have asked prosecutors whether they have turned over all
defendants' and co-defendants' statements, they have been lied to or
misled. 
The danger from these secret wiretaps is not limited to suspected
criminals. According to statistics published by the Administrative
Office of the United States Courts, which oversees "authorized"
federal wiretaps, each wiretap order of roughly 40 days in length
results in the interception of an average 2,139 conversations involving
84 separate persons. The statistics also note that the average tap
produces incriminating information less than 20% of the time,
resulting in the arrest of two suspects and the conviction of a single
individual. If, as a police narcotics detective testified in the Gaxiola
case, there have been hundreds of secret "handoff" taps and
electronic intercepts, by extrapolation, thousands of Los Angeles
residents have had their private telephone conversations secretly and
illegally monitored by LAPD. 
The public defender has filed an unprecedented class-action habeas
corpus petition with Superior Court Presiding Judge Robert W. Parkin
on behalf of all past, present and future public defender clients. It
seeks to discover whether the prosecution denied thousands of
defendants a fair trial by hiding the true source of its information, i.e.,
secret wiretaps. If secret wiretaps were used and the evidence was
concealed from the defense, then thousands of men and women were
illegally convicted and incarcerated. 
Should this unhappy scenario play out, the criminal justice system
could well be irreparably damaged, its credibility in the public mind
ruined. Yet, even if events keep the convicted behind bars, the loss of
trust between prosecutor and defense lawyer may never be fully
recovered. The problem defense lawyers and criminal judges face
today is that they have never had so many prosecutors lie for so long
about so much, which may have resulted in the unconstitutional
convictions of so many. 

http://www.latimes.com/sbin/iawrapper?NS-search-set=/3544b/aaaa004Kx44b35f&N
S-doc-offset=0&NS-adv-search=0&
------------------------------------------------------------
      David Honig                   Orbit Technology
     honig@otc.net                  Intaanetto Jigyoubu

"I actually thought Silicon Valley was where women went to get fixed."
		---LA Mayor Richard Riordan 98.02.19




	










	















From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 09:44:12 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Schneier on Smartcards and Holding Secrets
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980427094340.007b3500@otc.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


	
Bruce wrote a short letter to a trade mag (Internet world? I've
lost it since) worth reporting.  The jist was, if a smartcard
contains Bank Secrets but is held by customers which do not
share the same goals/responsibility as the owner of the secrets, this is 
*poor security design*.




------------------------------------------------------------
      David Honig                   Orbit Technology
     honig@otc.net                  Intaanetto Jigyoubu

"I actually thought Silicon Valley was where women went to get fixed."
		---LA Mayor Richard Riordan 98.02.19




	










	















From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: TruthMonger 
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 14:06:51 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: ID's
Message-ID: <3544B67B.20DF@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


"When a place gets crowded enough to require ID's, social collapse is
not far away. It is time to go elsewhere."
~ Robert Heinlein






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: CustomNews@INTMAIL.TURNER.COM
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 08:15:26 -0700 (PDT)
To: TEXTCUSTOMNEWSUPDATE@CNNIMAIL1.CNN.COM
Subject: CNN Custom News Update
Message-ID: <199804271453.KAA14685@belize>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: TruthMonger 
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 14:05:11 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: TruthBore
Message-ID: <3544B850.1420@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


"The opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth."
~ Bohr






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: TruthMonger 
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 14:05:26 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: ...and we're here to screw you...
Message-ID: <3544B8A4.443D@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


"We don't care. We don't have to. We're the phone company."
~ An Opus To Be Named Later






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: TruthMonger 
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 14:05:36 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Defense
Message-ID: <3544B8FE.2B55@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


"The best defense against logic is ignorance."
~ A(H)OL(E)






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: TruthMonger 
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 14:05:41 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Son of Fear
Message-ID: <3544B9B5.E6E@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


"Message will arrive in the mail. Destroy before the FBI sees it."
~ FUD D'is






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: TruthMonger 
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 14:05:48 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Weapons
Message-ID: <3544B9F8.5FF3@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Armadillo: To provide weapons to a Spanish pickle.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 09:53:24 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: UK E-Comm-Crypto Policy
Message-ID: <199804271653.MAA13529@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


The UK DTI issued today a policy statement and papers
on electronic commerce and encryption policy, which 
were posted to UK Crypto. We offer the initial three docs:

   http://jya.com/uk-ecomm.htm  (28K)






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: TruthMonger 
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 14:07:34 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Justice
Message-ID: <3544F494.654@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


"Justice is incidental to law and order."
~ J. Edgar Hoover





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Marty Levy" 
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 07:19:21 -0700 (PDT)
To: Phil Karn 
Subject: Re: Position escrow
In-Reply-To: <199804220153.SAA22662@servo.qualcomm.com>
Message-ID: <354493E1.ADF25AFD@email.sps.mot.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





> I think you guys are worried about the wrong problem.
>
> The E911 stuff is still years off. Even when it is deployed, it will
> probably work only during a call, though this may depend on the exact
> method.
>
> In my opinion, idle cell registrations -- which are already standard
> cellular system practice -- represent the far more serious privacy
> threat.
>

It's worse than you think.  Most cellular base stations serve 7 cells,
and each cell uses receive diversity (mutiple antennas for the same
cell).  There is also a designed overlap of the cells from basestation
to basestation, otherwise you get blackout spots.  Although the
effort to use this information to locate a certain phone (provided
the power is on) is not trivial, the hardware is all in place.  Right
now, the basestation must determine which cell the user is in, but
the capability exists for it to narrow down the location and send
that information back to the network.  It probably won't (easily)
have the resolution of GPS, but once you know that much, you
can just home in on the phone's signal.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Chris Wedgwood 
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 21:12:17 -0700 (PDT)
To: Phil Karn 
Message-ID: <19980427161120.A3217@caffeine.ix.net.nz>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Wed, Apr 22, 1998 at 01:49:24PM -0700, Phil Karn wrote:
> Somebody should point out to the carriers that they could get rid of
> much of the incentive to clone phones if they simply offered a
> legit way to remain anonymous.

Bellsouth do that here, sort of, with GSM SIMs. 

You buy SIMs with 'pre-pay' on them and after a certain amount of air time
have to buy another one. Presumably these are regular SIMs and the expirey
is done by the network.

There should be lots of these SIMs around in theory... can anyone say STM?

Check out http://www.bellsouth.co.nz/prepay/prepay.htm for details.



-Chris




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Avi Rubin 
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 17:37:45 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: IEEE newsletter on Security & Privacy
Message-ID: <199804280035.UAA08887@mgoblue.research.att.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


This is to inform people who are interested of the 
IEEE Computer Society's Technical Committee on Security
and Privacy's newsletter, CIPHER. The URL for the online
version can be found at

   http://www.itd.nrl.navy.mil/ITD/5540/ieee/cipher/

There is also a text version of the newsletter mailed out to
the mailing list about every two months. You can find subscription 
information as well as the current and back issues at the web
site.

Here is the table of contents of the April issue:

====================================================================
Newsletter of the IEEE Computer Society's TC on Security and Privacy
Electronic Issue 27                                 April 27, 1998
Avi Rubin and Paul Syverson, Editors
                                       Bob Bruen, Book Review Editor
                                        Hilarie Orman, Assoc. Editor
                                     Mary Ellen Zurko, Assoc. Editor
                                      Anish Mathuria, Reader's Guide
====================================================================
         http://www.itd.nrl.navy.mil/ITD/5540/ieee/cipher/
 
Contents:                                         [3354 lines total]
 o  Letter from the TC Chair
 o  Letter from the Editor
Final Program and Registration Information for the
   1998 IEEE Symposium on Security and Privacy, Oakland California USA
Preliminary Program of the
   1998 IEEE Computer Security Foundations Workshop, Rockport Mass. USA
Security and Privacy Survey by the IEEE Computer Society
Security and Privacy News Briefs:
 o LISTWATCH: Items from security-related lists, by Mary Ellen Zurko
 o An Update from Asia, by Yongfei Han
 o Report on Canadian Crypto Policy Framework for Electronic Commerce,
   by Stewart Baker and  Elizabeth Banker
 o More recent news on Canadian Crypto Policy Framework
   and other policy news
 o Denial of service attacks targeting Windows 95/NT machines
 o Employees buy ORA Canada
Commentary and Opinion: Book Reviews
 o Web Security. A Step-by-step Reference Guide.
   by Lincoln Stein, reviewed by Bob Bruen
Conference Reports:
 o Workshop on Education in Computer Security (WECS '98) by Cynthia Irvine
 o Computers, Freedom, and Privacy (CFP `98) by Danielle Gallo
 o Financial Cryptography (FC`98) by Paul Syverson
 o NSA Network Security Framework Forum (NSFF) by Jeremy Epstein
Assessment of security software
New reports available via FTP and WWW: a couple
New Interesting Links on the Web
Who's Where: recent address changes
Calls for Papers:  HASE, ACSAC, IEEE Internet Computing, Software Practice
                   & Experience, JCS, ACM RBAC
Reader's guide to recent security and privacy literature
 o Conference Papers: Paper lists for FC, NDSS, and Info. Hiding
 o Journal and Newsletter articles: several
Calendar
List of Computer Security Academic Positions, maintained by Cynthia Irvine
Publications for sale -- CSFW proceedings available
TC officers
Information for Subscribers and Contributors



*********************************************************************
Aviel D. Rubin                                 rubin@research.att.com
Secure Systems Research Dept.                Adjunct Professor at NYU
AT&T Labs - Research
180 Park Avenue                   http://www.research.att.com/~rubin/
Florham Park, NJ 07932-0971                    Voice: +1 973 360-8356
USA                                            FAX:   +1 973 360-8809

   --> Check out http://www.clark.net/pub/mjr/websec/ for a new
       book on web security (The Web Security Sourcebook).
*********************************************************************





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Paul H. Merrill" 
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 17:37:21 -0700 (PDT)
To: tm@replay.com
Subject: Re: ID's
In-Reply-To: <3544B67B.20DF@replay.com>
Message-ID: <35454EF6.91A42838@acm.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


It is never entirely safe nor fittin' to attribute the words put in a
characters mouth by an author to the author.  Lazarus Long, the
character in question, while having many fine qualities, was not the
type of person who could be depended upon to tven follow his own
judgement nor one that could be trusted anyfurther than you could throw
Him. 

But in this case, I do believe that it did reflect RAH's views quite
well.

PHM

TruthMonger wrote:
> 
> "When a place gets crowded enough to require ID's, social collapse is
> not far away. It is time to go elsewhere."
> ~ Robert Heinlein




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Illuminatus Primus 
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 17:41:39 -0700 (PDT)
To: Jonathan Wienke 
Subject: Re: Position escrow (and how to defeat it)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980422104042.02f10a40@popd.netcruiser>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Wed, 22 Apr 1998, Jonathan Wienke wrote:

> 
> Regardless of the type of phone, the cell stations can be designed to do
> time-of-arrival comparisons on the signal transmitted from the phone and
> calculate a reasonably accurate position.  If you don't want your location
> known, don't transmit.
> 

Or, delay the return signal and use a paraboloid reflector.  This would
limit a spy's knowledge to the angle from the tower that you were
transmitting from, and the maximum distance from the tower that you could
be sitting at.  The paraboloid reflector would limit the ability for
someone to triangulate your location, depending on how narrow the beam is
focused.. Of course, if they really wanted to find you, they would walk
along the line of transmission until they ran right into you :).

Sure, the average joe is not going to go to the trouble of modifying his
cell phone and using a paraboloid reflector.. and even if he did, a
remailer type of system would be much more secure.  I guess the average
unaware joe is just going to have to get used to being shafted as a result
of his ignorance.  Isn't that how it's always been?

Question: How could true anarchy be guaranteed for stupid people like Joe?
>From an atheistic viewpoint, it could be said that the natural state of
the universe is anarchy; the current situation is a result of that
anarchy.

What me worry..





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ddt@lsd.com
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 02:18:53 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: kid informers
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


 http://www.odci.gov/cia/ciakids/aerial/index.html

 "Hi, kids! My name is Harry Recon, and this is my twin sister, Aerial.
  She's going to tell you about the History of the CIA in another section
  of the kid's page. We know some great books, too! Read all about it!
  My parents named me after President Harry Truman, who created the Central
  Intelligence Agency when he signed the National Security Act on Sept. 18,
  1947. My family has always supported the Agency and its predecessor, the
  Office of Strategic Services (OSS), roosting wherever it was camped and
  keeping an eye out in defense of our country, too.

  In 1961, when the Agency moved from downtown Washington, DC, to Langley,
  Virginia, we naturally followed. My dad says that we Recons have been in
  the intelligence operations business throughout US history:

  With Paul Revere on his midnight ride.
  With Virginia Hall as she arrived in France during World War II.
  Winging along side the U-2 as it took off to gather overhead pictures.

  Let Aerial tell you more about where we live and work and about our
  family history."

 http://www.nytimes.com/library/national/042398cia-kids.html

 "This is not an effort to recruit," a spokesman for the spy agency
	emphasizes. "This is an effort to inform in a fun way."


I wonder what genius came up with this idea.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Shostack 
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 00:31:47 -0700 (PDT)
To: shamrock@cypherpunks.to (Lucky Green)
Subject: Re: Schneier on Smartcards and Holding Secrets
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199804280729.DAA03637@homeport.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Lucky Green wrote:
| On Mon, 27 Apr 1998, David Honig wrote:
| 
| > 	
| > Bruce wrote a short letter to a trade mag (Internet world? I've
| > lost it since) worth reporting.  The jist was, if a smartcard
| > contains Bank Secrets but is held by customers which do not
| > share the same goals/responsibility as the owner of the secrets, this is 
| > *poor security design*.
| 
| No kidding. Duh.

I make this point by saying 'if the smartcard is my agent, its useful.
If its the bank's agent--well, its under my complete control, isn't
it?'


Adam

-- 
Just be thankful that Microsoft does not manufacture pharmaceuticals.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Lucky Green 
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 18:53:46 -0700 (PDT)
To: David Honig 
Subject: Re: Schneier on Smartcards and Holding Secrets
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980427094340.007b3500@otc.net>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Mon, 27 Apr 1998, David Honig wrote:

> 	
> Bruce wrote a short letter to a trade mag (Internet world? I've
> lost it since) worth reporting.  The jist was, if a smartcard
> contains Bank Secrets but is held by customers which do not
> share the same goals/responsibility as the owner of the secrets, this is 
> *poor security design*.

No kidding. Duh.

-- Lucky Green  PGP v5 encrypted email preferred.
   "Tonga? Where the hell is Tonga? They have Cypherpunks there?"





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Toto 
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 15:58:47 -0700 (PDT)
To: David Honig 
Subject: Re: Schneier on Smartcards and Holding Secrets
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980427094340.007b3500@otc.net>
Message-ID: <3545DC4C.6468@sk.sympatico.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


David Honig wrote:
> 
> 
> Bruce wrote a short letter to a trade mag (Internet world? I've
> lost it since) worth reporting.  The jist was, if a smartcard
> contains Bank Secrets but is held by customers which do not
> share the same goals/responsibility as the owner of the secrets, this is
> *poor security design*.

LEA's in Montreal (?) just raided a place churning out a wide variety
of Lucky Green Freelance Socialist Smartcards (TM).
It seems that the Electronic Horatio Algers involved simply bought the
same type of equipment that banks,etc., use, and placed hidden cameras
in business areas where charge/debit cards were used.
The LEAs spoke about millions of dollars worth of fraud, but I don't
think they were including possible losses by secret government agencies
skimming private funds for black-bag jobs and illegal arms deals.

  The 'criminals' will probably turn out to be ex-employees of the
Oliver North Campaign Fund Drive.

Toto






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Toto 
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 15:57:07 -0700 (PDT)
To: David Honig 
Subject: Re: LA DA's illegal wiretaps revealed ---LA Times
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980427094006.007bcb60@otc.net>
Message-ID: <3545DDD8.1865@sk.sympatico.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


David Honig wrote:
> [excerpt]
> in the wake of the discovery that
> deputy district attorneys assigned to its narcotics unit have relied on
> secret wiretaps for years to gather evidence against their
> clients--and no one, including judges, knew about the practice.

The same thing occurs in my hometown of 10,000 people. When the
local cops get caught performing criminal actions, the city buys
their way out of a lawsuit, with a non-disclosure agreement being
signed, and the illegal activity continues, as before.
No one knows? Bullshit. Even the local barhounds know. Don't tell
me the judges and prosecuters are clueless.

There are criminals with guns and badges, and criminals without
guns and badges.
I am in favor of the government exercising their power to enforce
the death penalty. I am equally in favor of the individual citizen
doing the same.

TRIN






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Toto 
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 15:57:40 -0700 (PDT)
To: "Edwin E. Smith" 
Subject: Re: Futures Doomed
In-Reply-To: <199804261554.LAA13050@camel7.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3545E35C.5570@sk.sympatico.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Edwin E. Smith wrote:
> 
> At 09:32 PM 4/26/98 -0400, you wrote:
> >Why haven't the undergrounders adopted the SF1000 note (just under $700
> these days)?  Nice denomination. 
> When was the last time you bought $700 worth of crack? :-)

Yesterday...

Anonymous






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Chris L. Kuszmaul" 
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 08:16:16 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: NASA 'educating' scientists to restrict free speech.
Message-ID: <199804281515.IAA22897@sally.nas.nasa.gov>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



  Hi, my name is Chris Kuszmaul. I am a contractor at NASA
Ames research center. I feel it would be valuable for the general
scientific community to be aware of some upcoming classes 
designed to educate scientists here regarding what they may and
may not write on the internet, or any public forum.
-------------------- begin excerpt --------------------
NASA has begun responding to recent new legislation and regulations
regarding the export of information or material with potential use as a
weapon of mass destruction or international business competitiveness
advantage. All personnel creating information, equipment or material
falling within this category are now responsible to control its transfer
according to regulations.  NASA has created an Export Control
Administrator at each Center responsible to implement a program which
provides for the review, classification and approval (or disapproval) of
the export of material or information which may be subject to
limitations.

The Center has arranged for the outreach program offices of the U.S.
Customs and the Bureau of Export Administration (BXA), U.S. Department
of Commerce, to conduct a brief class on their Agency's regulatory
requirements in partial fulfilment of this required training. Everyone
is welcome to attend, but this is a mandatory briefing for researchers,
engineers and equipment developers. This session will deal with the
enforcement of the Export Administration Regulations (EAR), issues of
the Commerce Control List (CCL), and Export Classification Control
Number (ECCN). This particular session covers the regulatory requirement
for the authors of scientific, technical materials and software
developers. Anyone who generates and develops such materials, or sends
NASA commodities overseas must attend this session.  These specifically
include NRC, Ames Associates, grant recipients, students, IPA's,
contractors, civil service employees and all others who publish on
behalf of NASA. The EAR, CCL, ECCN are important in completing block III
of the Document Availability Authorization (DAA)(Form 1676).

Each session will be approximately 15-20 minutes.  A question and answer
session will follow after the talk.

The dates, time, and location are indicated below. Attendance at one
session is sufficient to fulfill the regulatory requirements.

                      Dates           Time
    Location

    May 7, 1998      10 am      Bldg. 213, Rm 261

....

---------------------------------------

  As the text above says, everybody is welcome to attend.

CLK




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: x 
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 08:43:40 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: NASA 'educating' scientists to restrict free speech.
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19691231160000.0072bbf4@shell15.ba.best.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Thank you - chilling.  Anyone have specifics on the "legislation"? and
regulations, especially concerning "potential use as a weapon of ...
international business advantage?"

At 08:15 AM 4/28/98 -0700, Chris L. Kuszmaul wrote:
>
>
>  Hi, my name is Chris Kuszmaul. I am a contractor at NASA
>Ames research center. I feel it would be valuable for the general
>scientific community to be aware of some upcoming classes 
>designed to educate scientists here regarding what they may and
>may not write on the internet, or any public forum.
>-------------------- begin excerpt --------------------
>NASA has begun responding to recent new legislation and regulations
>regarding the export of information or material with potential use as a
>weapon of mass destruction or international business competitiveness
>advantage. All personnel creating information, equipment or material
>falling within this category are now responsible to control its transfer
>
>




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 09:04:20 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: kid informers
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980428085530.007a23e0@otc.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 02:03 AM 4/28/98 -0700, ddt@lsd.com wrote:
> "This is not an effort to recruit," a spokesman for the spy agency
>	emphasizes. "This is an effort to inform in a fun way."
>

One can only hope that some bored cynic can perhaps generate
a parody page which expresses the truth.  And seed the 
META-CONTENT with enough k-12 keywords to snag the eyeballs.

"Hi, I'm Dorothy Lemming, and I work for the intelligence community.
We listen to your calls to your granny in the old country, 
we scan your email, we get our Canadian buddies to listen to you
and teach them how to share.
We like to know what you're saying.  Its our way of 
getting in touch with your feelings."

"Hi, my name is Louie, and I like to listen too.  We're trying
to point out all the scary monsters to your parents so they will 
let us do whatever we want.  So that we can protect you.  What's
a little privacy for safety?"

"Hi, my name is Aldrich Ames, and my job is to make sure all our
spies work for us..."


------------------------------------------------------------
      David Honig                   Orbit Technology
     honig@otc.net                  Intaanetto Jigyoubu

"I actually thought Silicon Valley was where women went to get fixed."
		---LA Mayor Richard Riordan 98.02.19




	










	















From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Eat Shit 
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 15:57:34 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Your Opinion Matters...
Message-ID: <3545F6BF.65D3@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I think I should walk into a Luby's Cafeteria and start blowing people
away at random, for no good reason.
~ If you agree, vote by dialing 1-800-EAT-SHIT
~ If you disagree, vote by dialing 1-800-EAT-SHIT

I think I should go down to a local school and start randomly 
slaughtering the children.
~ If you agree, vote by dialing 1-800-EAT-SHIT
~ If you disagree, vote by dialing 1-800-EAT-SHIT

I think I should monitor the electronic communications of every person
on the face of the earth, in order to protect them from themselves.
~ If you agree, vote by dialing 1-800-EAT-SHIT
~ If you disagree, vote by dialing 1-800-EAT-SHIT

I think I should attempt being elected the leader of the most 
influential country in the free world, by kissing the asses of the
money and power mongers.
~ If you agree, vote by dialing 1-800-EAT-SHIT
~ If you disagree, vote by dialing 1-800-EAT-SHIT

NOTE: If you don't have a phone, you become a guest on a TV talk show
where I am appearing, and cheer or boo me, according to your wishes.

Remember: Your opinion matters...NOT!

EatShitMonger






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 11:34:17 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Quantum Snooping
Message-ID: <199804281834.OAA18494@camel8.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


New York Times' Markoff reports today on the latest in quantum 
computing, some of which was discussed here recently. Two
points of note:

IBM recently made a "snapshot" of the entire worldwide Web,
eight trillion bytes of data, for an experimental database for 
searching and unnamed other manipulation by its quantum 
computers. Searching the database for a word by conventional 
computers would take a month, while quantum devices could
do it in 27 minutes, a Beamer says.

NSA is funding quantum computing at Los Alamos specifically
for cryptographic investigation, "because QC could have
a profound effect on modern cryptography."

Others forms of warp speed snooping are discussed as well.

---------

Restricted:

"Snow Crash" is featured in a hot-selling book on the thought
of the American Left, "Achieving Our Country," by philosopher
Richard Rorty. The book is swell reading on the state of US
thought, culture and politics whatever your disagreeable attitude. 
It's smallish, but for those completely broke and open to copyleft, 
grab it before IBM kicks it offshore:

   http://jya.com/161.htm  (238K)

   http://jya.com/161.zip  (89K)





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ken Williams 
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 11:46:01 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: hacking smartcards
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Hello,

http://cuba.xs4all.nl/~hip/

nice info, ideas, and website.

Regards,

Ken Williams

ORG: NC State Computer Science Dept   VP of The E.H.A.P. Corp.   
EML: jkwilli2@adm.csc.ncsu.edu        ehap@hackers.com             
WWW: http://152.7.11.38/~tattooman/   http://www.hackers.com/ehap/ 
PGP: finger tattooman@152.7.11.38                       







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mia Westerholm 
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 07:18:00 -0700 (PDT)
To: F-Secure-Press-Global@DataFellows.com
Subject: Data Fellows Strikes a Major Deal
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980428153940.00ab5c20@smtp.DataFellows.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Data Fellows Ltd.  Media Release

For immediate release
28 April 1998

DATA FELLOWS STRIKES A MAJOR DEAL
A Prominent Scandinavian Telephone Operator Invests in Data Security 

Helsinki, Finland, April 28, 1998  -- Data Fellows, a leading provider of
Internet security solutions, has made a deal with the largest private
telephone company in Finland.  Helsinki Telephone Corporation has bought
F-Secure SSH to enhance the security of its Kolumbus Internet services over
public networks. Kolumbus is one of the largest providers of commercial
Internet services in Finland.

"Data security is a highly important consideration for us," says Mr. Vesa
Perttunen, Development Manager from Helsinki Telephone Corporation,
Kolumbus Services. "We evaluated the data security products available on
the market, and F-Secure SSH was the best we could find.  We particularly
appreciated the fact that the source code is available to us."

Says Mr. Tatu Vehmas, Sales Manager, from Data Fellows: "F-Secure SSH
leaves no room for security compromises.  Furthermore, it is the only
sensible tool for secure remote systems administration currently available
on the market. We are pleased that Kolumbus Services has chosen our unique
F-Secure SSH package."

The F-Secure SSH Package

F-Secure SSH products are based on the SSH security protocol. The SSH
protocol is an application level protocol with strong public key
authentication and 128-bit encryption.  It guarantees the simultaneous
authentication of both ends of the connection, the secrecy of the
transmitted information, and the integrity of the transmitted data.

F-Secure SSH Terminal provides the user with secure login connections over
untrusted networks.  It acts as a replacement for the telnet protocol.
F-Secure SSH Terminal fully supports VT100 terminal emulation.

F-Secure Tunnel creates a local proxy server for remote TCP/IP services.
The service can be one of the Internet protocols, pop, smtp (used by e-mail
software), http (used by Web browsers), etc., or almost any other TCP/IP
based service.  The local proxy server listens for a socket on the desired
port and forwards the request and data over the secure channel.  It then
instructs the F-Secure SSH Server to make the connection to the specified
service on the remote machine.

In addition to secure terminal connections and TCP/IP connection forwarding, 
F-Secure SSH Server provides tools to replace existing rsh, rlogin, rdist,
and telnet protocols.  These tools enable administrators to carry out all
remote systems administration tasks over secure connections.

About Helsinki Telephone Corporation

Helsinki Telephone Corporation is the largest local, private telephone
company in Finland.  It is one of the cornerstones of the Finnet Group, a
consortium of 46 private local telephone companies. Helsinki Telephone
Corporation has expertise in the entire range of telecom services, from the
fixed network through data services to mobile telephony.  Through the
Finnet Group, Helsinki Telephone Corporation provides services throughout
Finland.  It has also extended its services abroad through co-operative
agreements with leading international operators. 

More information about Helsinki Telephone Corporation can be found at: 
http://www.hpy.fi

More information about Kolumbus Services can be found at: 
http://www.kolumbus.fi

More information about Finnet can be found at:  
http://www.finnet.fi

About Data Fellows

Data Fellows is one of the world's leading developers of data security
products with offices in San Jose, California and Espoo, Finland. Its
groundbreaking F-Secure product family is a unique combination of globally
available, strong encryption and revolutionary anti-virus software.  The
integrated F-Secure product range provides a complete security solution for
enterprises, and includes file encryption and IPSec communication
encryption products, VPN gateways, SSH based secure remote management
software, and a full range of anti-virus products to workstations, servers
and gateways.  Data Fellows is also the developer of the award winning
F-PROT Professional anti-virus, now part of the dual scanning engine
concept of F-Secure Anti-Virus.   

Data Fellows is privately owned.  Since it was founded in 1988, its annual
net growth of net sales has been over 80%.  Data Fellows offers a worldwide
network of technical support, training and distribution in over 70 countries. 
Data Fellows belongs to an elite group of companies that have a
triple-A rating from Dun&Bradstreet.

More information about Data Fellows and its products can be found at:
http://www.DataFellows.com


For further information, please contact:

Data Fellows Ltd.
Mr. Tatu Vehmas, Sales Manager	
Tel.  +358 9 859 900, 
Fax. +358 9 8599 0599
E-Mail: Tatu.Vehmas@DataFellows.com
¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤
Mia.Westerholm@DataFellows.com 
http://www.DataFellows.com

Data Fellows Ltd.
PL 24
FIN-02231 ESPOO, FINLAND
Tel. +358 9 859 900
Fax. +358 9 8599 0599




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 17:27:13 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Wiretap Docs
Message-ID: <199804290027.UAA10618@camel8.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Cellular Telecommunications Industry Association suit against
the FBI over disputed wiretap requirements of CALEA:

   http://jya.com/ctia-fbi.htm  (19K)

The FBI's definition of "upgrade" and "modification" for CALEA
wiretap requirements, Federal Register, April 28, 1998:

   http://jya.com/fbi042898.txt  (60K)






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 19:06:14 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: ECHELON 1988
Message-ID: <199804290206.WAA28591@camel8.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Duncan Campbell has provided his 1988 article on
the NSA ECHELON global surveillance system,
one of the earliest accounts:

   http://jya.com/echelon-dc.htm

Duncan, who was hounded in court for years by the 
UK gov for allegedly revealing official secrets, provided 
substantial  support to James Bamford for "The Puzzle 
Palace." 

He was interviewed about ECHELON on French TV
yesterday. See his most informative Web site for 
investigative reporting:

   http://www.gn.apc.org/duncan






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 15:37:06 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Gary Lee Burnore and His Anti-Privacy Zealots are on the Warpath!
In-Reply-To: <6gobin$ctl$1@camel20.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <199804282237.AAA23738@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


William J. McClatchie  wrote:
 
> >Anti-privacy kooks like you and DataBasix CEO Gary Lee Burnore are one of 
> >the best arguments for the existence of anonymous remailers.  You and your
> >friends at DataBasix have a hard time bullying and harassing people into
> >silence that you can't identify, don't you?
>  
> And assholes like yourself are the best argument for *banning* remailers.
> They serve a purpose.  Unfortunately, to meet the purpose means that
> assholes are also given access to the service.

Your own record of harassing remailers is well known, McClatchie.  Calling
remailer users "assholes" and calling for content-based censorship only
underscores your anti-privacy agenda.  If remailer users posted only what
was popular and politically correct, there would be little need for
remailers.

One remailer operator who was forced to shut it down mentioned your name
quite prominently, BTW, in providing details about the attack.

> It was someone using a remailer to harass Wells Fargo management.

Can you document this?
 I never read a single post from anyone claiming to
speak for Wells Fargo management which has substantiated this.  Nor did
any of the remailer operaters involved mention having received such an
official complaint from member of Wells Fargo's management.  So all we
have is you parroting Burnore's original unsubstantiated allegations.

Isn't it interesting that when something offends Gary Burnore he often
resorts to "defending" phantom victims of the alleged "abuse"?  And shortly
thereafter, various of his sock puppets echo his whining chant.

> It was someone using a remailer who has spambaited several hundred
> email addresses.

And one such post contained Gary Burnore's own .sig block still appended to
an otherwise anonymous post.  Oops!

> It was someone using a remailer who wants to know if Gary Burnore's  
> current employer knows of his background.  And if not, how could they
> be contacted.
>
> It was someone using a remailer who posted, in direct violation of NC law
> information in its registry for the sole purpose of harrassing someone.

Please cite the NC law which you claim is being violated, and how it would
apply to a remailer located outside of NC?  Would you also say that
remailers ought to censor their content to avoid other laws being broken,
such as insulting the religion of Islam, publishing information about birth
control, abortion, etc.?  If not, why should a foreign remailer selectively
enforce this one law in NC (if it even exists)?

Telling people that the website exists and that a search for "Gary Lee
Burnore" on it might yield a match is not more "harassing" than the site
itself.  If they didn't want people to access this data, why publish it on
a public website?  The whole purpose of the website it apparently to let
people to know who the registered sex offenders are in NC and where they
live.

If someone snail mailed you something you considered "harassing" and
included no return address, would you accuse the sender of trying to get
the postal service shut down?

Wow, McClatchie.  I guess you have a point.  If you and Gary claim that all
that happened, and that it was done by someone outside of DataBasix, then I
guess we should believe it and shut down all the remailers just to make
sure they aren't abused...

But the fact is that all too often in the past, designer "abuse" would just
automagically appear at critical times when Gary Burnore and Belinda Bryan
were making demands (privately, via e-mail) on another remailer operator.
How would someone outside of DataBasix have known that?  How would someone
other than a DataBasix insider have gotten access to the complete list of
DataBasix' clients and employees in order to allegedly "spam bait" them, as
Belinda claimed?  Your own involvement in all of these attacks seems to
more than just coincidental.

Speaking of abuse and harassment, Gary Burnore demanded that Jeff Burchell
turn over to him all of his remailer logs containing the e-mail addresses
of everyone who had either sent or received anonymous e-mail through the
server.  Yet Gary refuses to disclose how such a list would have been used.
Fortunately for the remailer user community, no such data was ever
collected.

> >Lest anyone forget, Gary launched his first tirade against anonymity when
> >someone tipped off his molestation victim's mother and school officials
> >anonymously.
>  
> No, one of his first complaints about remailers was after someone used one
> to harass his SO of the time, and her daughter.  They had committed the
> heinious crime of knowing Gary.

Most women would not consider it "harassment" to be informed that their
daughters were being molested.  Nor did she complain.  Gary did!  How nice
of the perpetrator to be so considerate of his victim's mother and not want
to have her "harassed" by knowledge of what Gary was doing to her daughter.
Ignorance is bliss, huh?

Gary's motives were finally revealed when he was CONVICTED for that very
crime.  How would a random harasser have even known of Gary's sexual
activities involving minors, before he was arrested and convicted?  How
would he/she know the victim's gender, age, identity, and city of
residence?

> >Whistleblowing has always been one of the important functions
> >of anonymous remailers.
>  
> Uh huh.  And we've seen real "whistleblowing" activity here.  

Apparently so, when the perpetrator of the crime is the only one who
complains about being exposed.  In case it has escaped your attention, Gary
complained PUBLICLY about a PRIVATE e-mail message to his victim's mother.
If telling a mother that her daughter is being molested isn't
whistleblowing, what is?

> Seen plenty
> of abuse.  Seen postings of such a vile nature from remailers that when
> people made similar postings from traceable accounts, their ISP's
> terminated them.  And it was not becuase of content - but becuase the
> messages were harassing, in both nature and intent.

TRANSLATION: Anything with which the fine folks at DataBasix disagree tends
to be called "harassment" and "abuse".  As for intent, the accuser has the
burden of proof, there.

But consider this: if even mentioning Gary's sexual activities with minors
is "vile", what does that make Gary for actually committing them?




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: lose20lbsin2wks@juno.com
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 21:40:41 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: Lose 20 pounds in 2 weeks
Message-ID: <199804290340.FAA20896@alenka.bva.czn.cz>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




                Marketing Services Interests - Diet

               Eat all the Chicken, Fish, Lamb, Pork 
                 or Steak that you want while you..

                     LOSE 20 LBS IN 2 WEEKS


* Sound too good to be true?  The diet works.

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* After you lose the weight you simply watch your diet.

* It is important to consult your Dr. before starting this Diet.


Interested!
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Check or Money Order for $5.95 To:

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 21:32:06 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Anonymity, FC '98, and escrowed paper shredders
In-Reply-To: <199804280035.UAA08887@mgoblue.research.att.com>
Message-ID: <199804290355.FAA13754@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Avi Rubin writes:

>    http://www.itd.nrl.navy.mil/ITD/5540/ieee/cipher/

Most interesting from a cypherpunk point of view.

"Matt Blaze expressed an interesting analogy in describing a paper
shredder that created a digital copy of a document and sent it off to
a central database. When a document was accidentally shred, the user
could contact the database and have a copy faxed."

Mentions of anonymity contain an anonymous poster to cypherpunks, an
anonymizer inside the FBI's intrusion detection program, AAAS proposal
to use remailers to defend human rights, toll collection and mass
surveillance in New Jersey, trustees and anonymity-revocation in
payment schemes, policy issues for anonymizing services and discussion
of onion routing at a spookish security conference.

Finally, good manners or not, here's Paul Syverson's must-read item on
FC '98 for those of us who couldn't go:

----------------------------------------------------------------------
The second annual Financial Cryptography Conference (FC98) was held in
Anguilla in the British West Indies on February 23--26, 1998.  The
conference was a rousing success, Attendance was up with over 100
participants from business, academia, and government with interests
in cryptology, computer security, and/or the financial industries.  A
governing body over the conference was introduced, the International
Financial Cryptography Association, and held its first meeting,
electing a board consisting of Vince Cate, Bob Hettinga, Ray
Hirschfeld, Lucky Green, and Ron Rivest.

The presentations were interesting and well attended, no mean feat
considering the Caribbean diversions that surrounded the participants.
The quality was probably best summed up by David Chaum who remarked on
the last day, ``I can't remember the last time I sat through an entire
session much less a whole conference, but I came to every paper here.''

The following description will focus on the official program. This
means that it will deal almost entirely with presentations by
cryptology and computer security researchers. Unlike last year, there
were no papers presented by members of the financial community or
policy experts. Those contributions occurred entirely in presentations
and panels that were not part of the official program.  This was
unfortunate. Given the available distractions, these unofficial
sessions were much less well attended. The ones I did attend were very
instructive in understanding the financial side of financial
cryptography. Had they been part of the official program, there might
have been even more of a dialogue between the two sides that give the
conference its name. Which is not to say that interaction was minimal,
far from it. But the official dialogue was a bit one sided. (A much more
off-program description of the conference can be found at
http://www.live.co.uk/ftvfr398.htm )

The conference opened with welcoming remarks from the chairs and from
Victor Banks, the finance minister of Anguilla. He noted that Anguilla
was well suited as the site of the conference, observing that it may
have more web pages per capita than anywhere else in the world. He also
noted that revolutions, particularly bloodless revolutions, do well in
Anguilla. And, like their own revolution in the late 1960s, he held
high hopes for the revolution in electronic commerce at the forefront
of which one can find this conference.

The first session began with a paper on ``Micropayments via Efficient
Coin-Flipping'' by  Richard Lipton and Rafail Ostrovsky.  The goal is
to minimize communication: number of rounds, number of bits sent,
hardware requirements, fraud, and computational requirements.  In this
scheme a coin-flip protocol is performed on the links of preprocessed
hash chains formed independently at the vendor and the customer. Coin
flips resulting from the chain results will only infrequently indicate
a payment. The bank participates only when a payment is required. This
is somewhat similar to Rivest's ``Electronic Lottery Tickets as
Micropayments'' which was presented at last year's rump session and was
published in the final proceedings (which are now available from
Springer). However, as Ostrovsky later explained at the rump session.
the two are not the same. One difference is that, roughly speaking,
Rivest's scheme backloads the winning result onto the lottery protocol,
while the Lipton-Ostrovsky scheme frontloads the winning result.

The next paper was ``X-Cash: Executable Digital Cash'' by Markus
Jakobsson and Ari Juels. The basic idea is to have applets carrying
cash that they can spend under appropriate conditions. The contribution
of the paper was to show how to do this in such a way that the applet
cannot easily be pickpocketed by an attacker or hostile host.

The first session ended with ``Distributed Trustees and Revocability:
A Framework for Internet Payment'' by David M'Raihi and David
Pointcheval.  One goal is to relax constraints on usual trust model and
reduce trust assumptions of previous work. One may adopt different
approaches to the use of trustees: trustee in every transaction,
trustee just at account opening, or trustee only in
anonymity-revocation. The paper combines the last two of these. It is
based on the use of smartcards with user pseudonyms. The paper also
makes use of a threshold approach to anonymity revocation so that
honest users get assurance of privacy against a (small number of)
compromised trustees.

David Maher presented ``A Platform for Privately Defined Currencies,
Loyalty Credits, and Play Money''. This was also a smartcard scheme.
But, the idea is to have a fairly generic smartcard on which a number
of different private currencies could easily be maintained.  He
sketched a number of potential applications: vendor loyalty points,
corporate scrips, and monetary values for virtual environments like MUDS
and interactive games. The idea is to have the currencies be easily
defined and implemented as well as fungible with more ordinary
currencies. It seems like a very interesting idea; although some in the
audience questioned whether vendors would want to be bothered with the
infrastructure overhead.

``Assessment of Threats for Smart Card Based Electronic Cash''
was the next paper, by Kazuo J. Ezawa, Gregory Napiorkowski.
It prompted lots of detailed questions. As was noted by Ron Rivest
during questions, the threat model was someone trying to get money
out of Mondex by counterfeiting cards rather than say
a competitor trying to undermine confidence in the Mondex
system. This was acknowledged as the focus of the work.

The last paper of the day was ``Using a High-Performance, Programmable
Secure Coprocessor'' by Sean W. Smith, Elaine R. Palmer, Steve Weingart
The talk nicely outlined all the problems in developing building
deploying, and updating (the software on) secure coprocessors.

Gene Tsudik kicked off the Tuesday program talking about ``Secure Group
Barter: Multi-Party Fair Exchange with Semi-Trusted Neutral Parties'',
which he wrote with Matt Franklin.  The Franklin-Tsudik approach uses
unbalanced verifiable secret sharing to increase efficiency. They
reduce all types of multiparty exchange to single unit cyclic exchange.
In the multiparty case, principals will get what they want. But,
principals may not know from whom they get it.  Cyclic order is hidden
by the STNP, and it does not necessarily know the size of the group.

The next paper was ``A Payment Scheme Using Vouchers'' by Ernest Foo
and  Colin Boyd.  The voucher approach uses the same payment principals
as other approaches: the customer, the bank, and the merchant.  The
main difference is that it reverses the usual payment cycle.
-bank and merchant create a voucher
-merchant sends the voucher to customer (including encrypted goods)
-customer sends voucher with cash to the bank
-bank evaluates voucher
-bank informs merchant and
-bank releases voucher to customer
Vouchers are made only when merchant wants to make a new product Then
they sit on the ftp site and wait for customers.  Efficiency was
claimed over, e.g., Netbill and iKP Also, there is no online processing
by merchant.  Like Netbill, goods are part of the protocol, not just
cash is sent. One can have customer anonymity via anonymous ftp, but
not anonymity from the bank.  Detailed comparison was given of the
number of messages, symmetric encryptions, the location of computation,
signatures, etc.  It was noted that this scheme is  not as efficient as
some of the micropayment schemes. Also, it goes against the usual
network thinking by placing load at the bank. But, it requires less
work by the merchant. A question was raised about static vs. dynamic
products This scheme only allows static (predetermined) products.

The next paper was ``A Formal Specification of Requirements for Payment
Transactions in the SET Protocol'' by  Catherine Meadows and Paul
Syverson.  SET is the proposed industry standard for credit card
transactions on the Internet. This paper gave an overview of the
payment part of SET.  Requirements were given in NPATRL (the NRL
Protocol Analyzer Temporal Requirements Language) for analysis using
the NRL Protocol Analyzer.  Modifications and additions to NPATRL
needed to formalize requirements for SET were also described.

Markus Jakobsson presented a position paper written with Moti Yung
entitled ``On Assurance Structures for WWW Commerce''.  The motivating
question was, ``What is left to do to facilitate trade over the
Internet?'' The current environment was claimed to be characterized by
lawlessness, changing identities, and gang wars, where one must be
careful carrying cash, and there are no road signs. Basically, they
compared the World Wide Web with the wild and wooly west.  (Within this
the western theme Markus described the good, the bad, and the ugly of
what is on the Web.) Main components of the infrastructure needed are
the access structure, for people to find the goods and services they
need, the trust structure to facilitate trust between customers and
merchants. Also needed are protections in other contexts. Anonymity,
freedom from profiling, prevention of access to information, and
[forced access to information] i.e., direct marketing, were all raised.
Basically the need for both individual and institutional rights.
Finally they noted the need for a means for maintaining the structure
of assurances. They also considered the economic, legal, and other
impediments to providing these needs.

The next program elements was a panel discussion on the Mechanics and
Meaning of Certificate Revocation moderated by Barb Fox(BF).  Other
panelists were Joan Feigenbaum(JF), Paul Kocher(PK), Michael Myers(MM),
and Ron Rivest(RR).

BF began by characterizing revocation as the undoing of a persistent
signed statement.  The reasons could be either key compromise or some
sort of relationship binding failure, either a key to an identity or an
identity to a CA (certification authority).

Questions for panel given were:  Can X.509 work? What are the
alternative CRLs? And, what about revocation across PKIs?  Other
questions were: Who owns a certificate?  Who pays for revocation? What
is the relationship between revocation and trust management? Finally,
should we wait for legal mechanisms?

MM noted that we can't solve all the problems today, but major
corporations want to use this today to manage their risk. There is
also nonrepudiation and other issues besides risk management. He noted
that a CRL can be good for many needs even if it is just a blacklist,
and CRLs are well position in architectures today. But, on the other
side he noted their large size and inability of the basic approach to
handle timeliness effectively. The alternative of short lived
certificates take advantage of existing mechanisms and are easy to
deploy within an enterprise. But, the don't scale well; it must be
decided for how long they are valid. Thus, it is somewhat a case of
just moving the bandwidth elsewhere. He also mentioned pros and cons of
on-line and off-line approaches.

PK claimed that revocation is needed to make public key crypto automatic.
Solutions must consider security, scalability, performance,
memory (smartcards), bandwidth, auditability, practicality wrt
what is currently available, secure manageability, and simplicity
(e.g., should use standard crypto).
CRLs fail at least wrt reliability, scale, performance, memory, bandwidth,
and  practicality (applications don't know where to get CRLs from).
Valicert's approach is to use Certificate Revocation Trees and he
claimed that these meet all the requirements.

RR gave his position as one favoring no certificate revocation.
Certificates support a signed message/request.  Freshness matters to
acceptor (more than the CA), so freshness requirements must be set by
the acceptor not the CA.  Corollary: periodically issued CRLs are
wrong.  E.g., a badge checker wants at most day old badge information
but CRLs come out once a week.
He then gave the SDSI model in which the signer must get the freshness
evidence, not overworked server.  And, the simplest freshness check is
a (more) recently issued certificate.  He noted that key compromise is
different.  Who controls a key's good/compromised bit?  He noted that
the  PGP suicide note is no good in the case a where a key is
deliberately shared.  He proposed a network of suicide bureaus with
which you register when obtaining a public key. Suicide notes can be
sent to any suicide bureau from which it will quickly be disseminated
to all.  This means that you can obtain a health certificate from the
bureau with which you registered saying that you indeed are registered
and no evidence of problems with your key has been received.  He ended
with a bit of advice from the grammar and style classic by Shrunk and
White: always go positive when you can.

JF said that she agreed with everything Ron said especially, put it in
positive terms. She noted that the cost of infrastructure maintenance
is crucial. Fast cross PKI checks will be expensive, but probably can
be minimized.

After basic positions were given the panelists all generally agreed on
things ;>). For example, Matt Blaze (one of JF's co-creators of
Policymaker) asked, ``Is it worth it to build this whole infrastructure
to have certificate revocation?'' MM responded that there isn't much
infrastructure difference between revocation and validation. To which
JF responded, ``No. There's a big difference.''

David Aucmith pointed out that devices (not people) often carry
keys. And, they can't make suicide decisions. For them
CRLs are important. This was one question for which
I didn't hear a good answer to, although something akin to
Rivest's suicide bureaus might also be able to handle this.
Presumably if evidence of compromise has arisen somewhere, then
the device will not be able to obtain a certificate of health
when needed. It's inability to function should then ultimately
attract the attention of a human who can then decide to obtain
a new key for the device.

Someone else raised that CRLs are a mechanism for managing changing
trust, but why should we think that this one mechanism can handle all
the trust management available from public keys?  If there is evidence
that my key was compromised two weeks ago, I can incorporate that in a
CRL, but how could you do this on the positive approach?  It can't go
back in time like a CRL can.  Ron Rivest said that this was a tough
problem and he didn't know the answer. But he added, "that's what
juries are for."

After dinner Tuesday night was the first meeting of the
International Financial Cryptography Association (IFCA).
As mentioned above, a governing board was elected. The other
main topic of business was where to hold future conferences.
After much animated discussion it was decided that the conference
would stay in Anguilla for at least the near term.

Following this, there was a rump session.

John Kelsey described cryptanalysis of the SPEED Cipher (work done with
with Wagner, Hall, and Schneier). The SPEED cipher was introduced at
FC97 by Yuliang Zheng. He observed that the interesting part was  the
cryptanalysis that fails.  The obvious differential attack doesn't
work.  Instead they use a related key attack.

Ian Grigg announced NISI Advanced Encryption Standard Support They will
do the JAVA implementation for any algorithm that anyone wants because
NIST wants 3 implementations for standards including one in JAVA.
They're the middle men. They need volunteers to do it.

Stephan Overbeek described the N-count value Analyzer.
It is based on one-way chaining in smart cards.  Value is in the
number of chain links revealed (reversed).  The claimed main difference
is that the 1-way chain is specific to a terminal rather than the user.
It was claimed to be fast and good for micropayments.

Cathy Meadows gave a quick overview of the NRL Protocol Analyzer,
an interactive Prolog based tool for analyzing cryptographic protocols.
It examines a protocols by starting in a final state and searching
backwards to see if it is possible to reach an insecure initial state.
It is thus like a model checker. But unlike a model checker, it sometimes
analyzes infinite state spaces, which it does by facilitating the proving
of lemmas (like a theorem prover) that allow pruning of infinite chunks
off the search space.

Alain Mayer described policy issues for running an anonymizing service.
He raised three general problems that might arise, not necessarily
specific to Lucent's LPWA.
-Your service is used for a(n attempted) break-in at another site.
-somebody posts threats or insults on a message board via your service.
-a site asks you to block access from your service to the site.
I noted that all three of these had actually occurred with our Onion
Routing prototype, and that at the time we were struggling with general
policy solutions to these problems. (We have since formulated a policy,
which is posted on our Web site. LPWA has also posted a policy statement
at http://lpwa.com:8000/policy.html )

Rafi Ostrovsky explained why Rivest's Lottery scheme is not equal to
the Lipton-Ostrovsky given on Monday. The difference has been described
above in the synopsis of his Monday presentation.

Paul Syverson presented Weakly Secret Bit Commitment. I gave an example
of an exchange protocol with no trusted third party where the
principals are not forced to be fair but rather where their incentive
to proceed outweighs their incentive to cheat.

Jon Ziegler described the Java Ring, which is Java running on a Dallas
semiconductor iButton. Amongst other nifty features, it does garbage
collection so you can delete applets when their done.

David Goldschlag presented Security Models for content.  This was an
overview of the Divx approach to, e.g., ``renting'' movies, in which
the rental period starts when the movie is first played rather than
when it is obtained and there is no need to return the DVD. To allow
you to `re-rent' the disc the DVD player has a dialup connection to a
backend system.  The DVD player logs the disc serial number of played
discs and reports the log periodically to the backend (offline).  If
you prevent the player from calling in for a long time it will lock up.
Questions were raised about privacy.  David responded that release of a
customer profile is better protected than at conventional video rental
chains where the cashier has your profile rather than an access
protected billing service.

Stuart Stubblebine presented On Revocation. This was roughly improved
or extended versions of Rivest's principles (given during panel, c.f.,
above). The principles were related to his own work on recent security
and metrics of authentication.  One example, Rivest principle:
Freshness requirements must be set by acceptor not a CA.  This was
amended to: Freshness requirements must be set by all entities relying
on them.

Bob Green described what it was like to be a Programmer Living in Anguilla.
This wasn't really on the topic of the conference. But, it gave a fascinating
glimpse of what it is like to work in Anguilla. Some advice and comments
gleaned from the talk. If you want to move here, bring two of everything
that can break. Officially on paper, you can't move, so you just do it.
If you fix somebody's PC there, you now know their whole family.
And, since there are only a handful or so of families on the island,
you get to know everybody pretty quickly.

Bob Hettinga presented Market model for bearer certificates.
He suggested that we should base it on the old physical bearer bond model.
Major Claim: even if you issue a bearer certificate at every exchange,
that's still cheaper than, e.g., seven years of credit card audit
trails.

Steve Schear rounded out the evening with a description of First E-Cache.

Wednesday morning began with an invited talk by David Chaum, who I
think could reasonably be called the undisputed father of financial
cryptography.  The title of his talk in the preproceedings was
``Private Signatures and E-commerce''; however, the title on his
opening slide was ``Which Flavor Will Win in the `Way-More-Digital'
World''. This brief writeup can only sketch some of the many topics
on which he touched.

There were two foci to his talk, info technology policy issues
and privacy, particularly in payments.

His policy overview covered three areas.  (1) commons issues: free
bandwidth has had a positive effect on cyberspace growth (2) consumer
protection: false privacy?  (3) human rights: next wave of fundamental
human rights is informational rights.  Consumer protection and
bandwidth intersect at junk mail and push technology.  Consumer
protection and human rights intersect at the consumer platform and
interface. And, bandwidth and human rights intersect in the area of
message encryption secrecy. In the intersection of all three is access
-- interaction security (people have to be able to protect their
interests in cyberspace). He went on to describe both the problems and
facilitating factors of establishing interaction security.

He began his discussion of privacy by noting:  The consensus of the
heads of major technology companies, Greenspan, others is that consumer
confidence in privacy protection is the major reason that e-commerce
hasn't taken off. In fact, surveys even show that people are generally
expecting increased privacy from e-commerce vs. current commerce.  He
then explained some of the drawbacks of e-commerce using conventional
payment mechanisms such as credit cards and explained how blind
signatures enable one-way private e-cash.  He felt it was quite
important to stress that it is one-way privacy not anonymity, as is
often said in the media.  In other words, nobody can without your
agreement know where you spent your money BUT, you can always prove
with the bank's help who received any payment, as well as when and for
how much.

His conclusion was that there were forces moving us in two directions.
flavor #1: an all traceable nonrepudiable more-centralized world, and
flavor #2: an expanding decentralized informational-rights world
(the good one).  He didn't say definitively which way things would go,
but he felt that work such as done by the attendees of this conference
would help push in the right direction.

A fascinating claim that he made during questions, but on which he did
not have time to elaborate was that, with the various cryptographic and
other mechanisms  he had described in his talk, the possibility exists
to virtually eliminate of organized crime.

The conference continued with ``Group Blind Digital Signatures:  A
Scalable Solution to Electronic Cash'' by Anna Lysyanskaya and Zulfikar
Ramzan, who split the presentation duties.  Their model is of a central
bank with smaller banks that users choose. The goal is to make the
Goal: identity of the user and of the user's bank anonymous to the
vendor and the vendor's bank (only the central bank can find out the
issuing bank of a piece of e-cash. And, no bank (even central) can
issue cash in another bank's name. The scheme is online, hence somewhat
 expensive. But it can be made offline if we compromise a degree of
 user anonymity.

Before the next session Ian Goldberg announced that he had a 100 byte program
to turn an export version of Netscape into one with all the strong
crypto and announce a contest to write a smaller one. He also extended
the contest to write a similar program for Internet Explorer.

The next talk was ``Curbing Junk E-Mail via Secure Classification'' by
Eran Gabber, Markus Jakobsson, Yossi Matias, and Alain Mayer (the last
of whom gave the talk).  H e noted that spamming is currently easy:
it's easy to to gets lots of addresses and to send to them, and it's
hard to distinguish spam from other mail. There are tools available,
but their solution was claimed to have advantages over each of them.
The gist of their solution is to have extended email addresses,
basically you have a core address plus extensions for use with
multiple groups of users. A handshake to the core address just gets
extensions This deters spammers and adds functionality.  Also, you can
later revoke an extension (by filtering all messages with that
extension). So a spammer buying the address from another spammer won't
get any value since the extension is revoked.  This approach is claimed
to be provide transparency of extensions to actual users, robustness
(flexible about how much automation is used) backwards compatibility
with sendmail, etc., and -interoperability with the rest of the world.

Next up was ``Publicly Verifiable Lotteries:  Applications of Delaying
Functions'' by David Goldschlag and Stuart Stubblebine.  Regular
lotteries require trusting the auditors and determining the winner is
not repeatable since it relies on a random element. The goal here is to
find a fair, closed, and publicly verifiable lottery in which not
even the lottery agent is trusted.  The basic idea is to make the
winning number calculation slow and require at least one random entry.
Besides the obvious application of running a lottery other applications
include distributed random numbers (with a low overhead of communication).
It was also shown how to use delaying functions in the exchange protocol
I described in the rump session.

The next paper was ``Security of Digital Watermarks'' by Lesley R.
Matheson, Stephen G. Mitchell, Talal G. Shamoon, Robert E. Tarjan, and
Francis X. Zane.  This was a very nice survey of existing watermarking
technologies.  Their stated goal is to have invisible and robust
watermarking: only the key holder can find it, and it can't be removed
without destroying the data.  The focus was on perceptual content
(video, etc.) rather than representational content (programming text,
etc.) It was noted that it may be Important to have layers of marking
for e.g. private and public watermarks.

After lunch came ``Security in the Java Electronic Commerce Framework''
by Surya Koneru, Ted Goldstein. The talk was given by John Ziegler.
The talk contrasted commerce with EDI. Commerce is not about absolute
trust.  In fact, spontaneous commerce requires zero trust in the
principals; all trust is in the payment token. The opposite extreme is
EDI, where trust is in the long term relationship, and the payment
token can be just about anything.  Their offerings are Java Commerce
Beans and Java Commerce Client (a wallet).  Java Commerce Client
anchors the client side of the transaction, handles client delivery,
installation, update, cooperation with a trusted and familiar
interface.  Java Commerce Beans provide a structure for creating
customer relationships:  operations, instruments, protocols, services,
etc.

Next up was ``Beyond Identity: Warranty-Based Digital Signature
Transactions'' by Yair Frankel, David Kravitz, Charles Montgomery, and
Moti Yung.  A standard CA architecture assures static properties,
liability with respect to contract enforcement, nonrepudiation of
signers, etc.  The main concept of a warranty is that it addresses the
need to further validate current contextual information beyond
identity. A warranty granting transaction system is dynamic: providing
warrants on a per-transaction basis, accounting for user history and
providing user-specified access to control parameters.

The next presentation was ``Compliance Checking in the PolicyMaker
Trust Management System'' by Matt Blaze, Joan Feigenbaum, and Martin
Strauss.  The motivating problem for this presentation was: Even if
wary customer Alice has convinced herself that Bob of small company
Bobsoft signed a program so what?  She wants to know if Bob complies
with her policy for buying software. The topic of this paper is: What
do we mean by proof of compliance?  Compliance checking approach works
by incremental proofs using supplied credentials (authorizations). For
example, Cred1 is run and it says Bankofficer1 will approve if he sees
evidence of freshness. Cred2 is run and says fresh, Cred1 is run again
and says approved.  Yes means there is some finite sequence of the
running of credentials there is an acceptance record that says the
policy is satisfied.  But this is undecidable!  (Various restrictions
can get this down to NP hard, or NP complete.) Nonetheless, this has
been implemented and runs in application.  Applications noted as
described elsewhere include signed email, PICS labels, and license
management.  Note that since policies must be monotonic you can't
directly do certificate revocation type things.

Next was ``An Efficient Fair Off-Line Electronic Cash System with
Extensions to Checks and Wallets with Observers'' by Aymeric de Solages
and Jacque Traore.  This paper is at the most recent in a chain of
papers making various improvements on Brands's CRYPTO 93 paper of
similar name.  The present contribution is to improve the efficiency of
the payment protocol.

The final paper of the official program was ``An Efficient Untraceable
Electronic Money System Based on Partially Blind Signatures of the
Discrete Logarithm Problem'' by Shingo Miyazaki and Kouichi Sakurai.
Those who stayed until this last paper were rewarded with an
interesting talk that began with a presentation of nondigital (hence
exportable) origami ninja weapons.  The basic idea is that the signer
signs a blind part (user ID and coin number) and a clear part (validity
and amount of money).  Partially blind signature makes the system more
efficient because bill amounts need not be tied to signing key, i.e.,
you don't need a separate key for $10 bills, $20 bills, etc.  The
combined embedding and engraving signature scheme is designed to cover
all the types of information needed.

Thursday was primarily occupied by an empirical investigation of
so-called  ``ecliptic curve cryptography''. That is, most of us took a
boat down to a few miles off the coast of Montserrat to observe a total
eclipse of the sun while simultaneously keeping one eye on the volcano
spewing tons of ash just to our west. The geek-o-meter registered quite
high as several preprogrammed GPS devices could be heard going off when
the boat reached the contracted observation location. (Other evidence
of geekhood such as people spotted brandishing a laptop and a notebook
on the boat and actually doing work are vehemently denied by this author.)

Friday after breakfast there was an unscheduled question and answer
hour with David Chaum, which I was unfortunately unable to attend.
After this there was a roundtable discussion on ``Financial
Intermediaries, Public Networks, and Financial Cryptography'' moderated
by Steve Schear. Other presenters were Paul Guthrie, A.S. von Bernhardi
(aka Black Unicorn), and Frank Trotter.

Steve Schear lead off with an overview.  On a national level, the
central bank is the ultimate financial intermediary---setting interest
rates, rules for interbank loans, etc.  Below them are the commercial
banks.  These do the financial networks and management for individuals
and businesses.  Below them are the credit cards between the banks and
the consumers.  These do risk management.  There are also a large
number of processors like First Data, and Virtual that sit between the
bank and the merchant, as well as ATM networks like Cirrus and smaller
regional associations like Most.  Finally, there are also nonbank
financial intermediaries brokers, check cashing services, etc.

Paul Guthrie gave a description of where things are going with card
associations, which are made of member banks (Visa, Mastercard), and
card companies, which have as customers rather the end consumer
(American Express, Discover).  For card associations, acceptance will
imply certificates (making sure that the card is accepted at a store
need merchant certificates since anyone can stick up a logo on a Web
page).  Cards will carry more software. There will need to be PKI
infrastructures.  There may be adoption of new payment systems. There
will also be more opportunity for new brands in cyberspace. Thus, the
meaning of brands must be made clearer. Adam Shostack asked: networks
can be more open and yet there is going to be more certification of who
is authorized to accept a card?  Answer: It's up to the member bank,
which merchants they want to back. More liberal banks will run a higher
discount rate.

Frank Trotter began by observing that there are no hard currencies anymore
and discussed the roles of some of the traditional players in the new world.
He observed that state banks and regulatory agencies have increasingly
less reason for being, resulting in various turf squabbles.
Banks meanwhile are trying to defend their current franchise value.
Banks provide credit stability for the consumer.
If anybody who sets up a private mint and goes bankrupt, that will kill the
the confidence in the market for some time.

At that point von Bernhardi brought up the story of the failure of the
EU Bank in Antigua. This was basically an offshore, online bank that
was destroyed and lost (only!) 12 million dollars.  Someone noted that
it's good this happened earlier when the sacrifice was small and
everyone can make sure it doesn't happen again.  The important danger
is that institutional risk becomes systemic risk.  Guthrie noted that
Visa will drop banks that become a risk or will require a cash deposit
in a third party neutral bank.  Then, von Bernhardi contrasted public vs.
private insurance (what he called ``the myth of government backing of
financial institutions'').  Trotter then pointed out that many other
industries are are moving into banking.  Telecom is the biggest threat
to banking:  they have a big base and good records.  They could start to
take deposits and get backing of FDIC.

In beginning his own presentation, von Bernhardi stated that, ``It's
ironic I'm here...  At the far end of the tunnel, I would like to see
intermediaries diminish.'' He proceeded to give his impression as an
offshore banker.  The motivation is not to provide stability of the
international financial community but to make money.  Local offshore
governments typically take an attitude of `if you behave here, you can
stay'. The threshold of acceptable behavior is much higher than in the
US.  Regulators in the US are interested in providing global
stability.  Offshore banks MUST operate out of band, because they're
there.  To connect to the system, they have to go through the ACH
(Automated Clearing House). They have to go through VISA. But, there's
a lot more freedom.  He would like to see financial intermediaries
functioning in the exception rather than ordinarily in transactions.
Consumer efficiency involves reducing the middle man.  But, then how do
we broker trust?  Well you can have TTPs in the short run.  Crypto
protocols won't do the whole job.  Offshore could use these new
technologies so that they can go through these intermediaries faster.
But, in the long run, fewer and more offline intermediaries is the way
to go.  Reputation, he noted, is a multifaceted issue. It's not just a
question of having a certificate on the wall. ``If one of my clients
walked in to Citibank with a cashier's check from us, I can guarantee
that it won't clear right away.''

Someone asked from the floor what will happen when we start to see
private minting. etc. Bernhardi responded that selling your frequent
flyer miles is now possible and becoming easier.  And, Trotter observed
that you build a trading system, and if enough trust is built into the
system it becomes another currency.  Someone else in the audience
observed that the very existence of these systems is evidence of
inefficiencies in the main systems. They will then adapt and primarily
the small systems will remain small.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 09:04:21 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Why does the Navy research onion routing?
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980429090405.0079b940@otc.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Why does the Navy research onion routing?

Only reason I can think of is so that .mil can 
study other sites anonymously, or communicate
amongst themselves using anonymous-routing-tech
to avoid traffic analysis.

The other practical possibility is that they're happy
to have smart CS people and will fund whatever they
want to do, just to keep them.




------------------------------------------------------------
      David Honig                   Orbit Technology
     honig@otc.net                  Intaanetto Jigyoubu

"I actually thought Silicon Valley was where women went to get fixed."
		---LA Mayor Richard Riordan 98.02.19




	










	















From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 09:12:32 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: FBI scans public-access terminal used by Lewinsky
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980429091218.007a03a0@otc.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


	

Anyone remember PROMIS?




http://www.drudgereport.com/1.htm#1

excerpt:

FBI agents working the Starr probe zeroed in on PARCEL PLUS in early
February, it has been learned. 

Agents conducted interviews and spent hours with the store's computer. 

"They were digging around in the computer's guts," a store source explains,
"below DOS." 

STARR's team interviewed the store's owner and two other employees -- with one
employee taking a trip down to Starr's office for questioning. 

Investigators have left nothing to chance: subpoenaing detailed information
from PARCEL PLUS' local Internet provider and digging up all of the store's
phone records via BELL ATLANTIC.
------------------------------------------------------------
      David Honig                   Orbit Technology
     honig@otc.net                  Intaanetto Jigyoubu

"I actually thought Silicon Valley was where women went to get fixed."
		---LA Mayor Richard Riordan 98.02.19




	










	















From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Rabid Wombat 
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 22:03:00 -0700 (PDT)
To: Toto 
Subject: Re: Army, Navy and Alt2600 Farce
In-Reply-To: <3547A2FC.6267@sk.sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




On Wed, 29 Apr 1998, Toto wrote:

> 
> COMING IN ON A WING AND DISPAIR  (29 April 1998)
> 
>         Pilots are leaving the Air Force like fleas jumping off a dead 
> dog. If
> this exodus in blue doesn't stop, there won't be anyone left to fly the
> existing megabuck fleet of aircraft or the trillion dollar fleet of
> space-age new fighters the Air Force wants for the 21st century.

If you think it will be hard to find people who are willing to join the 
military just to have a shot at flyin' mach 2 with their hair on fire, 
you're gettin' too damn old.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 10:52:11 -0700 (PDT)
To: David Honig 
Subject: Re: FBI scans public-access terminal used by Lewinsky
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980429091218.007a03a0@otc.net>
Message-ID: <199804291705.NAA01219@users.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In <3.0.5.32.19980429091218.007a03a0@otc.net>, on 04/29/98 
   at 09:12 AM, David Honig  said:

>"They were digging around in the computer's guts," a store source
>explains, "below DOS." 

I *really* wish these so-called journalist would not quote absolute
morons. What the @$@% does "below DOS" mean?!? They run a copy of PC Tools
and do a sector scan of the HD? Gee isn't that just scary!!

The clueless are a dime a dozen, I would like to find the SOB passing out
the dimes!!

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgp.html
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: OS/2: Windows done RIGHT!

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3a-sha1
Charset: cp850
Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000

iQCVAwUBNUdevY9Co1n+aLhhAQGo8AP+IzymVxmjezS7ZTrQkP7olIlwUu62VmOG
ONX7lLhwYWK1zoKxcwuKh78AECmUCA49tLuHM2m3i0nhr0zKWiMxXt3odLpXqciJ
qAVvR3KB+pFRnTpikAW8LEctqR8+0gdl9VQq777oiorg+rtLXo2u5AeLk2bIctTK
YER5OvtjuRk=
=QZBR
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Toto 
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 15:03:06 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Army, Navy and Alt2600 Farce
Message-ID: <3547A2FC.6267@sk.sympatico.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


## Anon-To: Pretty Lousy Privacy 
:: Subject: POP Secret Communication / Boil in oil after Reading!!!

COMING IN ON A WING AND DISPAIR  (29 April 1998)

        Pilots are leaving the Air Force like fleas jumping off a dead 
dog. If
this exodus in blue doesn't stop, there won't be anyone left to fly the
existing megabuck fleet of aircraft or the trillion dollar fleet of
space-age new fighters the Air Force wants for the 21st century.

        Without pilots it's going to be even harder to justify all these 
costly
new silver bullets when a congressperson or two without bases or flying
machine plants back home comes asking, "Who needs these suckers when
missiles, robots, bugs and germs, and 16-year-old hackers will be the
weapons of the future?"
http://www.hackworth.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"That wasn't hacking, cracking and phreaking...that was 'unauthorized
military training'!"
~ Lou Tenant, Graham (Cracker) Johnny (DuneWadd) Buller (Shit) 
  AttackAdamMe of Computron Seances and Waste Drugsposal






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Toto 
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 15:03:03 -0700 (PDT)
To: "William H. Geiger III" 
Subject: Re: FBI scans public-access terminal used by Lewinsky
In-Reply-To: <199804291705.NAA01219@users.invweb.net>
Message-ID: <3547A42E.5871@sk.sympatico.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


William H. Geiger III wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP VIRUSED MESSAGE-----
> In <3.0.5.32.19980429091218.007a03a0@otc.net>, on 04/29/98
>    at 09:12 AM, David Honig  said:
> >"They were digging around in the computer's guts," a store source
> >explains, "below DOS."

> I *really* wish these so-called journalist would not quote absolute
> morons. What the @$@% does "below DOS" mean?!? They run a copy of PC Tools
> and do a sector scan of the HD? Gee isn't that just scary!!
> 
> The clueless are a dime a dozen, I would like to find the SOB passing out
> the dimes!!

Me too...I need the money.

Anonymos (Otot-ay!)





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Toto 
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 17:59:32 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: The Epilogue That Never Was - SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS!!!
Message-ID: <3547CDC6.1990@sk.sympatico.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


The Epilogue That Never Was - SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS!!!
________________________________________________________

Memoirs of a Visible Man:

  When you are 'different' from others--inherently, irrevocably, 
unarguably different--you either learn to remain, as much as possible, 
invisible, or you spend much of your life in various sorts of prisons, 
subject to various kinds of punishments.
  There have always been a few 'safe havens' for those guilty of the 
crime of being different from those around them, although, for the most 
part, they have historically tended to be 'dangerous' safe havens such 
as pirate or merchant ships, new world colonies, fringe religious or 
political movements. Those with wits, who didn't mind joining the ranks 
of the lower fringes of society, in return for ostensibly remaining 
within it, could become court jesters, actors, artists, and the like.

  With the advent of the Age of Electonics and the rise of Virtual 
Reality, those who are able to remain within society's outer boundaries 
by comically or entertainingly mirroring the parts of the human psyche 
and human emotions that society requires its 'regular' members to 
repress have become elite, well-paid artisians who are recognized as 
valuable professionals in the Age of Form Over Substance.
  For those in the lower strata of society who are unable to 
successfully graduate from Society's Finishing School--usually as a 
result of answering  "Fuck You, Shit For Brains" to questions where a 
"Yes Sir/Officer/YourHonor" answer is required--there are no longer many 
physical locations available where one can escape to , which results in 
the creation of an increasing number of them being labeled 'criminals' 
and banished to New World Order colonies consisting of six-foot cabins 
bounded by iron bars.
  Those in the higher strata of society who are unable or unwilling to 
live within the boundaries society requires of the masses often have the 
option of joining an elite group of criminal-actors who have sufficient 
firepower at their command to bully the others in society into 
recognizing their authority to disobey all of society's rules and act in 
their own self-interest while denying they are doing so by telling 
blatant and outrageous lies. (Those with a particular talent in this 
area sometimes reach the epitome of politics, in which the masses 
consider them to be every bit as 'real' as the 'people' on 'As The World 
Turns.' They are then free to do everything that Soap Opera actors do, 
with equal impunity from facing the real-life consequences that come 
from manslaughter, rape, robbery, marriage and drug-addiction--although 
they are still subject to the laws of physics when playing 
ski-football.)

  In the Glory Days of Virtual Reality, before the ElectroMagnetic 
Curtain began descending around those lured away from InterNet Free 
Terra and into the Sticky World Wide Web of the InfoMercial Highway 
Robbers, there were a few true Rennaisance Criminal Genius Elite who 
recognized that they could settle down from a life on the run--in small 
prairie towns such as Bienfait, Saskatchewan--and still live wild and 
free, riding the Virtual Outlaw Trail through the Alt2600 BadLands, 
robbing DataBanks, engaging in drunken brawls in the CypherPunks 
CryptoSaloon, partying with Bound and Gagged Asian DanceHall UnderAge 
Girls being pimped by Adult Check, and having the rugged good looks of 
Robert Redford, in an ASCII Art kind of way.
  Once the Information Railway began being replaced by the Information 
Highway as a comfortable, convenient way for the masses to journey into 
what were formerly remote Electronic Wilderness Areas, the outlaws and 
free-stinkers who had formerly been able to remain, for  the most part, 
invisible to the programmed masses, yearning to keep other minds from 
being free, found themselves subject to the scrutiny of those who 
recognized that free-range cattle and penned sheep could not peacefully 
coexist in a merchant society where corporate mergers to create Company 
Towns, with Company Stores, would be jeopardized by small-time rustlers 
and fence-cutters.
  Thus there arose a need for ElectroMagnetic Law and Order, supported 
by the muddled assholes, struggling to be Freeh.


The Lost Train of Thought (Part I):
  ...uuuhhhhh...


The Runaway Train of Thought Is Melted Down To Build The WhatIf Server:

WhatIf: A ClueLess Canuck, turned into a MindBot by the Institute of  
Applied Metaphysics in preparation for the Moscow Olympics, was culled 
from a Russian language class full of Canadian Mounties at the 
University of Regina by a Dark Continent TigerTeam agent and trained in 
Psychic Warfare?

WhatIf: A DoubleShinned Agent trained at the Psycho War Fair travelled 
to Africa with a Nuclear Physicist who was the youngest President at 
Oberlin College, and met with his TigerTeam controllers in a bar full of 
sailors from the U.S.S. Enterprise in the heart of Mombassa, as other 
members of his travelling group were engaged in a 'tour' of a US Navy 
ship?

WhatIf: A ClassLess Canuck highly trained in the Lack of Social Skills 
travelled to East Germany and Poland shortly after the Fall of the Wall, 
y'all, crossing the Polish border illegally to meet with members of the 
Little Nicky Telsa Fan Club at the same time that the ShakeSpearAtIan 
NukeKingLear PharmAssist (who got glowing reviews for the Polish 
translation of his work) was in Moscow, paying pipers and pimps to play 
the tunes called by his Muppet Pastors for the NuclearPowered Dancing 
Bears?

Qu'est Que C'est: A Psychic Killer To  Be Named Later was apprehended 
fleeing Poland, but walked away a free MindBot before the InTerraGators 
arrived, after paying a seventy Mark Antony Fine to a 'confused' Polish 
border guard, and was then intercepted upon his arrival back in the 
United States by US Customs agents instructed to hold him for 
interrogation regarding his US passport with a Polish exit stamp, but no 
Polish visa or  entrance stamp, and then slipped away after the 
'confused' agents merely confiscated his Black Forest Ham and released 
him, whereupon he quickly slipped off to a different airport to take a 
small plane to Nantucket to meet a female agent of  the Holy Roman 
Empire instructed to arrange for his transfer to a private yacht bound 
for a private compound of Nazi BusinessWar Criminals on a nearby island 
famous for their Celebrity Midnight Marathon Swim and Drunken Driving 
and Diving Festival?

WhatIf: A Dangerously Drunken Psychotic PissAnt Drug-Addicted Dumb-Ass 
Shit-Disturber To Be Maimed Later concocted some wild, unbelievable 
story to fuck with the mimes of the MimeFuckers, but all the details of 
his mad ramblings were already a verifiably true part of the SecretGuys' 
SecretGuyFiles, and even a cursory investigation would reveal even more 
conspiratorial concepts concerning his connection to a Forth Freudian 
Sufi Sect dedicated to Anti-NukeUnclear Publishing of Libertarian 
Mathematical GreenPeace OverGround GoreVillain Manuals designed to apply 
Laws of Form to a ChaosKult attack on the Fourth JavaCup Active-X-Files 
Implementation of A Disturbed CraptoLogical LISP MamboErs' Secret Agenda 
to Subvert Authority by making the Ship of Goverment list so far to the 
left that the Titanic balls of the Hermerphodite Aunt E. Christ are cut 
off as she slides over the rail, into the sea, emerging from the depths 
as Anne R. Christ who is Lucky enough to surface in time to hitch a ride 
on the Millenium Bug just before the Reptilian Nazi GermanAmericans 
circle the VolksWagons in a Two-Byte Double Donut formation to prepare 
for the attack of Naieve Americans with Wounded Knees whose Peyote 
Dreams predict that an Elvis whose Aim Is True will use Broken Arrows to 
cut off the Forked Tongues of the Serpentine Servants of Satan living in 
secret underground bunkers beneath both the AdamAntArctic and Mule Shoe, 
Texas, in the Land of the Freeh?

WhatIf: Incompetent Secret Agents To Be Framed Later gave up on 
purporting to properly protect National Security  
 in order to fail in their efforts to find 
a single innocent child to save from drugs dealers at the PROM, and, in 
their frustration at not being able to find the  Key which will 
connect them to the ClueServer, hit the  key instead, erasing 
the cleverly crafted composition of the Author, admitting an astounding 
array of in-depth illegal involvement in countless consciously 
conspiratorial causes aimed at the overthrow of OverLords oppressing 
opponents of Fucking FreehDumb Privacy Pirates purloining the Leftist 
Constitutional Rights of silly,  sufficiently subdued SheepIzens 
subverting their own Freedom, Liberty and Privacy, as well as their 
right to Free Rum, the USS Liberty and Piracy?

WhatIf: You slapped yourself on the forehead, mystified as to how the 
Author managed to once again sucker you into reading the mindless trash 
that is placed inside his skull by psychic garbage-pickers who step on 
his foot, lifting his toupee, and toss in the leftover thoughts that 
were pruned from the minds of the vegetables planted in the Home For The 
Criminally Insane too early in the year to avoid being cold-cocked by 
the FrostBack of Notre Dame, initiated in Wilcox, Saskatchewan, into a 
Circle of  Eunuchs Chapter of Eternity Cult known as the Hockey Hounds 
of Hell On Ice?

WhatIf: Jesus Saves, but Gretsky puts in the rebounds?

(c) 1999.9, ADualist Huxter (Part IV of 'The Whores Of Deception')





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: profits_juno.com
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 19:13:43 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199804300213.TAA27300@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hi 

 

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bruce@3d-cellular.com
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 20:19:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: $$Money Saving Ideas, Forward to HR, Operations/Engineering Departments$$
Message-ID: <199804300319.UAA27665@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


3D Cellular provides money-saving solutions with wireless 
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: verify@nytimes.com (New York Times subscription robot)
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 21:45:11 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Welcome to The New York Times on the Web
Message-ID: <199804300445.AAA21060@content9a.nytimes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Welcome, nyt_blows,

Thank you for subscribing to The New York Times on the Web.  

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Illuminatus Primus 
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 01:06:01 -0700 (PDT)
To: Frederick Burroughs 
Subject: Re: DNA = puppet masters?
In-Reply-To: <3547CD4F.7C07734A@shentel.net>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I read an interesting short sci fi story that suggested that the
interactions of DNA represented the language of a higher organism; that
humans and other DNA-based life forms were merely the carriers.

On Wed, 29 Apr 1998, Frederick Burroughs wrote:

> 
> 
> Dan Veeneman wrote:
> 
> > For real paranoia fodder, check out the burgeoning biometrics field.
> 
> As the recent news regarding the Vietnam era Unknown Soldier at Arlington
> National Cemetery illustrates, biometrics will increasingly define who we
> are. Accomplishments and monuments will fall to bits. The bits of you extend
> before your birth and after your death, you are but a placeholder for a
> mitochondrial dna profile.
> 
> Will this resolution of organisms to digits open us to exploitation and limit
> our access to opportunities? What demon is forcing this template upon our
> very being?
> 
> 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: netcenter-news@netscape.com
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 20:07:22 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: Netcenter News - Volume 6 - April 1998
Message-ID: <199805010307.UAA08703@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


  
 

Title: Netscape Netcenter News - April 1998






































Welcome to Netcenter
Netcenter is dedicated to the proposition that you should be able to find everything you need online in one place. This newsletter is one of the free benefits you receive when registering with a Netcenter program.
























Each month we'll link to a survey for Netcenter members. Check back the following month to see the results. This month's survey is Attention Small-Business Users. Netcenter will be launching a small-business site for you. Tell us what you'd like to see there.























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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 17202106@05731.com
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 17:39:52 -0800 (PST)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: Web Promotion Spider
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


             Web Promote Spider

With well over 80 million documents on the web today,
getting your Site   noticed is a difficult process. Going to 
each Search Engine, Link Page,   Directory, and Newsgroup
to manually submit your page could realistically
take weeks to complete.

Announcing the  Web Promote Spider! Created specifically to
meet the needs of those who want their web pages to get
NOTICED and placed   in the TOP of the Search Engines!
The  Spider automates the   process of submitting your site
and uses powerful technology to get your site   listed in the 
TOP positions.

We've developed the  Web Promote Spider for Windows 95
and NT. This amazing program automatically submits your 
site to over 250   (the list grows daily) major search engines and
directories!

PLUS, the  Web Promote Spider has an Expert HTML Reader
system inside. It will change certain contents of your html text and
automatically prepare needed information for online registration 
in Search   Engines to Optimize your pages and get them listed
on TOP. Originally   engineered for use by the professional
advertising industry, this program is  easy and intuitive to use. 
Beginners will be amazed at how simple it is to take   complete
control over their search engines and index marketing efforts. 

The Web Promote Spider is an industrial strength marketing
tool and an extremely valuable part of any publicity campaign.
With this kind   of power, it should come as no surprise that 
many of our customers have even   built profitable on-line
promotional businesses with this product and their
existing Internet connection!

With your payment of only $49.95 (standard version) you will 
receive the  current Web Promotion Spider program. Also, you
can have all the new  upgrades FREE. Each upgrade will have
a list of new Internet Search  Engines/Online Directories and, 
of course, new features. 

Plus, you get free upgrades which come out twice a month
with new features   and new search engines. Register now 
and you'll continue to get our upgrades,   which keep the 
program up-to-date and getting better and better! Now
submitting to 250+ search engines, free.

We are proud to announce that we now have two powerful 
versions of the Web Promote Spider, our Standard Version 
and our brand new Pro Version. Our Standard Version is 
designed for those individuals who have one or two sites
that they want to be able to submit, and want to see dramatic 
increases in their sites visibility. Our Pro Version is designed
for ISP's, Webmasters,   Hosting Providers, and anyone who 
has multiple sites they need to promote   thoroughly. While the 
standard version does track all registration campaigns
for you, it can still be somewhat time intensive if you register 
several sites at   once, or on a regular basis.

You can see   why the Web Promote Spider is taking the Net
 by storm!

Professional Version

While the standard version of this product seems to meet the 
promotional needs of most of our customers, we also recognize
the need for an 'industrial strength' version of  Web Promote Spider.

The Professional Version is designed for ISP's, Webmasters,
Hosting Providers, and anyone who has multiple sites they need
to promote thoroughly. While the standard version tracks all registration
campaigns for you, it can still be time intensive if you have to register
several sites at once.

To make this easier and more efficient for our customers, we have
added several new features to the brand new Professional Version:

Deep Promotion - This feature will automatically explore every
internal link in your site, and develop registration information for 
each page for you automatically. For instance, in the standard
version, if you have a 30 page site, you would have to run  Web 
Promote Spider thirty times, manually inputting each page into 
the registration queue. In the professional version, this is
all automatic, and can be done in a matter of minutes.

Batch Processing - If you are responsible for registering or 
maintaining several sites, you will find this feature particularly 
useful. You can load in multiple sites, and set the program to
run all the sites at once, generating and saving a separate
registration report on each. This report can easily be copied 
to the Windows clipboard for pasting into reports, email, etc.
Expanded Promotion Resources - While the standard version
of the Spider will submit to 250 registration resources this list
will continue to grow but not as quickly as what's being planned
on the professional version. The Pro Version currently has 400
and will soon have at least 1,000 automatic registration 
options/resources.

If you're a previous owner of the Standard Version, the cost is
only $49.95 to upgrade! If you're a first time user and would like
to start using the Pro Version right away, the cost is $99.90.

                                To Order

Order by fax or mail  Visa or Mastercard

Fax: (425) 379-9722
Mail to: SYS
              11014 19th Ave SE Suite 305
               Everett, WA 98208

We will give you the address to download the program
or for an extra $10.00 we'll send your the program
on CD-Rom

Name:_______________________

Address:_____________________

City:________________

State:________________

Zip:________________

Home Phone:___________________

Work Phone:____________________

Fax:____________________

E-mail_________________

__Standard Version $49.95

__Pro Version   $99.90

__Upgrade $49.95 (From Standard to Pro, if you already 
                                   have the standard version)

___Send CD-Rom $10.00

___Provide download address..No Charge

_____Total

Visa___MasterCard____

Account number:_______________

Expiration Date:________________

I understand that all sales are final.

_______________________
     Signature

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

















   






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 45201204@13080.com
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 10:47:43 -0700 (PDT)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: Web Promotion Spider
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


             Web Promote Spider

With well over 80 million documents on the web today,
getting your Site   noticed is a difficult process. Going to 
each Search Engine, Link Page,   Directory, and Newsgroup
to manually submit your page could realistically
take weeks to complete.

Announcing the  Web Promote Spider! Created specifically to
meet the needs of those who want their web pages to get
NOTICED and placed   in the TOP of the Search Engines!
The  Spider automates the   process of submitting your site
and uses powerful technology to get your site   listed in the 
TOP positions.

We've developed the  Web Promote Spider for Windows 95
and NT. This amazing program automatically submits your 
site to over 250   (the list grows daily) major search engines and
directories!

PLUS, the  Web Promote Spider has an Expert HTML Reader
system inside. It will change certain contents of your html text and
automatically prepare needed information for online registration 
in Search   Engines to Optimize your pages and get them listed
on TOP. Originally   engineered for use by the professional
advertising industry, this program is  easy and intuitive to use. 
Beginners will be amazed at how simple it is to take   complete
control over their search engines and index marketing efforts. 

The Web Promote Spider is an industrial strength marketing
tool and an extremely valuable part of any publicity campaign.
With this kind   of power, it should come as no surprise that 
many of our customers have even   built profitable on-line
promotional businesses with this product and their
existing Internet connection!

With your payment of only $49.95 (standard version) you will 
receive the  current Web Promotion Spider program. Also, you
can have all the new  upgrades FREE. Each upgrade will have
a list of new Internet Search  Engines/Online Directories and, 
of course, new features. 

Plus, you get free upgrades which come out twice a month
with new features   and new search engines. Register now 
and you'll continue to get our upgrades,   which keep the 
program up-to-date and getting better and better! Now
submitting to 250+ search engines, free.

We are proud to announce that we now have two powerful 
versions of the Web Promote Spider, our Standard Version 
and our brand new Pro Version. Our Standard Version is 
designed for those individuals who have one or two sites
that they want to be able to submit, and want to see dramatic 
increases in their sites visibility. Our Pro Version is designed
for ISP's, Webmasters,   Hosting Providers, and anyone who 
has multiple sites they need to promote   thoroughly. While the 
standard version does track all registration campaigns
for you, it can still be somewhat time intensive if you register 
several sites at   once, or on a regular basis.

You can see   why the Web Promote Spider is taking the Net
 by storm!

Professional Version

While the standard version of this product seems to meet the 
promotional needs of most of our customers, we also recognize
the need for an 'industrial strength' version of  Web Promote Spider.

The Professional Version is designed for ISP's, Webmasters,
Hosting Providers, and anyone who has multiple sites they need
to promote thoroughly. While the standard version tracks all registration
campaigns for you, it can still be time intensive if you have to register
several sites at once.

To make this easier and more efficient for our customers, we have
added several new features to the brand new Professional Version:

Deep Promotion - This feature will automatically explore every
internal link in your site, and develop registration information for 
each page for you automatically. For instance, in the standard
version, if you have a 30 page site, you would have to run  Web 
Promote Spider thirty times, manually inputting each page into 
the registration queue. In the professional version, this is
all automatic, and can be done in a matter of minutes.

Batch Processing - If you are responsible for registering or 
maintaining several sites, you will find this feature particularly 
useful. You can load in multiple sites, and set the program to
run all the sites at once, generating and saving a separate
registration report on each. This report can easily be copied 
to the Windows clipboard for pasting into reports, email, etc.
Expanded Promotion Resources - While the standard version
of the Spider will submit to 250 registration resources this list
will continue to grow but not as quickly as what's being planned
on the professional version. The Pro Version currently has 400
and will soon have at least 1,000 automatic registration 
options/resources.

If you're a previous owner of the Standard Version, the cost is
only $49.95 to upgrade! If you're a first time user and would like
to start using the Pro Version right away, the cost is $99.90.

                                To Order

Order by fax or mail  Visa or Mastercard

Fax: (425) 379-9722
Mail to: SYS
              11014 19th Ave SE Suite 305
               Everett, WA 98208

We will give you the address to download the program
or for an extra $10.00 we'll send your the program
on CD-Rom

Name:_______________________

Address:_____________________

City:________________

State:________________

Zip:________________

Home Phone:___________________

Work Phone:____________________

Fax:____________________

E-mail_________________

__Standard Version $49.95

__Pro Version   $99.90

__Upgrade $49.95 (From Standard to Pro, if you already 
                                   have the standard version)

___Send CD-Rom $10.00

___Provide download address..No Charge

_____Total

Visa___MasterCard____

Account number:_______________

Expiration Date:________________

I understand that all sales are final.

_______________________
     Signature

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

















   






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 13:09:24 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re:  Canadian Crypto GAK [slashdot.org]
Message-ID: <199805010502.BAA01799@panix2.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



   >   From: Jim Choate 
   >   
   >   > X-within-URL: http://www.slashdot.org/
   >   
   >   >    Crypto in Canada Posted by CmdrTaco on Thursday April 30 at 3:58 pm
   >   >    EST
   >   >    Encryption from the its-everywhere dept
   >   >    Eric Howe sent us This link where you can read about Canada's latest
   >   >    development in encryption. Looks like they want to have keys just like
   >   >    Uncle Sam.

They have no choice: they are part of the UKUSA alliance.

---guy, Vulis Terminator




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Steve Schear 
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 02:39:35 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: The Usual Suspects (National sales tax)
In-Reply-To: <199805030855.KAA18049@basement.replay.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>From my perspective, one of the most important fallouts from a replacement
of the graduated tax with a national sales tax is the removal of much of
the current rationale for FinCEN and citizen identification (i.e., SSN).
Certainly, it should no longer be required for establishing a non-credit
financial institution account, purchasing a money order/cashier's check or
wiring money.  In fact, you shouldn't need SSN for employment, except that
unless you supplied some number (even if psueduanon) you'd forego accruing
benefits.  The use of SSN for the ID runs the gammut in local, state and
federal programs, but is most often justified for purposes of taxation.

Now, I'm not naive enough to believe that any of these gov't agencies or
private corps are going to willing give up citizen unit IDs, but it will be
interesting to see their new rationales for the continued use of SSN (or
its replacement) for ID.

--Steve

--Steve

---------------------------------------------------------------------
		reply to schear - at - lvcm - dot - com ---

PGP mail preferred, see  	http://www.pgp.com and
				http://web.mit.edu/network/pgp.html

RSA fingerprint: FE90 1A95 9DEA 8D61  812E CCA9 A44A FBA9
RSA key: http://keys.pgp.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=index&search=0x55C78B0D
---------------------------------------------------------------------






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Toto Wordsmith 
Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 14:20:47 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: [Fwd: A.Word.A.Day--hieroglyphic]A.Word.A.Day--hieroglyphic
Message-ID: <35569417.4972@sk.sympatico.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: message/rfc822



hieroglyphic (hy-uhr-o-GLIF-ik, hy-ruh-)    also hieroglyphical adjective

   1. Of, relating to, or being a system of writing, such as that of ancient
      Egypt, in which pictorial symbols are used to represent meaning or
      sounds or a combination of meaning and sound. Written with such
      symbols.

   2. Difficult to read or decipher.

hieroglyphic noun

   1. A hieroglyph. Often hieroglyphics (used with a sing. or pl. verb.
      Hieroglyphic writing, especially that of the ancient Egyptians).

   2. Something, such as illegible or undecipherable writing, that is felt
      to resemble a hieroglyph.

[French hieroglyphique, from Late Latin hieroglyphicus, from Greek
hierogluphikos : hieros, holy. See eis-. + gluphe, carving (from gluphein,
to carve.]
 
   "The fascination with hieroglyphics, with emblems and impresas, or
   `pictures without words,' as Ernst Robert Curtius tells us, has
    continually occupied the minds of Western humanists since the beginning
    of the fifteenth century. "
   Zhang Longxi, What is 'wen' and why is it made so terribly strange?.,
   Vol. 23, College Literature, 02-01-1996, pp 15(21). 
 
This week's theme: words about symbols.
 
...........................................................................
Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. 
-Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
Send your comments about words to anu@wordsmith.org.  To subscribe or
unsubscribe A.Word.A.Day, send a message to wsmith@wordsmith.org with 
"Subject:" line as "subscribe " or "unsubscribe".  Archives,
FAQ, gift subscription form, and more at: http://www.wordsmith.org/awad/







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Luke Farar 
Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 12:20:00 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: remove
Message-ID: <355CF548.1F08@chsch.demon.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



remove




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSqncrs 
Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 00:18:08 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Unix O/S
Message-ID: <3d984dc3.3568457b@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



In a message dated 5/24/98 4:58:12 AM Central Daylight Time, nobody@REPLAY.COM
writes:

<< Your new proposal merits inclusion, however. All those in favour of
 banning anonymous posting can show their support by 
 responding to the thread via an anonymous remailer. >>

The joke's not that funny the 2nd time around either!

Stan




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: verify@nytimes.com (New York Times subscription robot)
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 08:23:57 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Welcome to The New York Times on the Web
Message-ID: <199805310413.AAA28990@content9a.nytimes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Welcome, nyt_blows,

Thank you for registering for The New York Times on the Web.  

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You selected your password at registration.
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ixion 
Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 03:59:30 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: usubscribe
Message-ID: <199905021925.VAA07543@mb06.swip.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



usubscribe


Life is a dream




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Corvus Corvax" 
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 08:34:52 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Bad, bad, bill
Message-ID: <19980501153418.25294.qmail@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


NYT this morning reports the that the Digital Millenium Copyright Act 
was adopted by the Senate Judiciary Committee:

"WASHINGTON - The Senate Judiciary Committee on Thursday adopted the 
Digital Millennium Copyright Act, which takes a new step toward 
protecting creative content in cyberspace by outlawing the equipment 
used to commit a copyright infringement, not just the act or intent of 
illegally copying material. 
...
Most visibly absent was any exemption for devices used in encryption
research, an issue Senate leaders said they hope to work out before the 
bill goes to the floor. "

There's been a good deal of discussion of this issue around here, to be 
sure. But I think maybe it bears repeating that even with some kind of 
narrow exemption for "encryption research", this bill is conveniently 
poised to be used not only against Evil Copyright Infringers, but also 
against the kind of troublemakers that expose, for instance, the 
deliberate weakening of GSM authentication.

Gawd. What bullshit.


571830573294323629934765012348436263285853260687657402192238

Corvus Corvax

324908584730535672342307543875016719214012473014020239437239


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 07:07:46 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Ajtai Lattice Patent
Message-ID: <199805011407.KAA02703@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


30 April 1998, Micropatent:

Cryptosystem employing worst-case difficult-to solve lattice 
problem (Assignee -- International Business Machines 
Corporation)

Abstract: A cryptosystem and cryptographic method are 
provided for performing tasks such as encoding/decoding, 
signing messages, and verifying identity. The system and 
method employ a problem which is difficult to solve in the 
worst case. Because of the worst-case nature of the 
problem employed, a system and method according to the 
invention has advantageous level of security, In a class of 
preferred embodiments, the difficult problem is one of the 
recognized difficult problems associated with the mathematical 
theory of lattices. These problems include finding short 
vectors and sets of basis vectors from a lattice. Cryptographic 
protocols are performed, using these problems. 

Ex Claim Text: A cryptographic communications system A 
comprising: a communications channel; means for generating 
a public key and a corresponding private key based on an 
instance of a problem, the problem being difficult to solve in 
the worst case, the instance of the problem  being difficult to 
solve, commensurate with the difficulty of the  worst-case 
solution of the problem; and means for performing a 
cryptographic communication protocol, employing the public 
and private keys generated by the means for generating, with 
another cryptographic communications system B over the 
communications channel. 

Patent Number: 5737425 

Issue Date: 1998 04 07 

Inventor(s): Ajtai, Miklos

If you would like to purchase a copy of this patent, please call 
MicroPatent at 800-648-6787. 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 09:26:02 -0700 (PDT)
To: lawya@lucs-01.novell.leeds.ac.uk
Subject: US legal system
Message-ID: <3549F6B2.542F@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Friday 5/1/98 10:02 AM

Yaman Akdeniz

The US court system has largely deteriorated to become part of the US
Federal bureaucracy
[aka Big Brother ... or probably more accurate, the Great Satan
http://www.aci.net/kalliste/speccoll.htm and
http://caq.com/CAQ/caq63/caq63madsen.html].

1  Judges and court clerks try to do what they want whether it conflicts
with law or not.

2  Lawyers and the US court system attempt to make it appear that there
IS NO LEGAL
REMEDY POSSIBLE without hiring a lawyer.  And the client will most
likely lose both 
money and the case.

Morales and I [http://jya.com/whpfiles.htm] are trying to change 1 and
2.

Later
bill


Wednesday  4/1/98  11:02 AM

Certified   Return receipt requested

Proctor Hug  Jr
Chief Judge, Ninth Circuit
50 West Liberty 
Street
Reno, NV 89501-1948
(702) 784-5631
784-5166 fax


Dear judge Hug:


Purposes of this letter-affidavit are to file criminal complaint affidavits against

1  judge Marilyn Hall Patel for not properly processing a  criminal  violation of the Privacy Act, 

2  former Ninth Circuit chief judge J Clifford Wallace for not properly  processing criminal complaint affidavits for

    a  felony perjury violation by Sandia National Laboratories lawyer  Gregory Cone,

    b  judge Fern Smith for not properly processing a felony perjury  violation by Sandia National Laboratories    
      lawyer Gregory Cone. 

    c  Albuquerque FBI special agent in charge Thomas Kneir for sending  FBI agents Kohl and Schum to my 
        home in an attempt to intimidate me from exercising my civil rights.
   
    d  Margret D. Thomas, Judicial Assistant to the Honorable Marilyn Hall  Patel, for not forwarding a valid 
        criminal complaint affidavit  regarding a criminal violation of the Privacy Act to Patel.

Brief history would be valuable for your understanding of this matter.

  Sandia has long been involved with the security of America's nuclear  arsenal. As they announce on their website: "We are funded primarily by  the U.S. Department of Energy to design all the non-nuclear opponents of  the nation's nuclear weapons" 
   
http://www.sandia.gov/">http://www.sandia.gov/). 

  This includes the cryptographic locks used to secure the nukes.  

  NSA supplies the algorithms and implementation guidelines to Sandia.  
  
http://www.aci.net/kalliste/nukearse.htm

In about 1982 I became project leader of the Missile Secure Cryptographic Unit [MSCU].

The MSCU was funded by the National Security Agency [NSA].

As a result of my about 4 year work with NSA, I was given access to its cryptographic algorithms by one document and many electronic schematics.

I wrote a book

            ISBN: 0125475705
            Title: Embedded Controller Forth For The 8051 Family
            Author: Payne
		Cover: Hardback/Cloth
            Imprint: Academic Press
            Published: September 1990

http://www.apcatalog.com/cgi-bin/AP?ISBN=0125475705&LOCATION=US&FORM=FORM2

about the software technology we used for the MSCU.

In 1986 I transferred to build the data authenticator for the Department of Energy's Deployable Seismic Verification System [DSVS]for the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty [CTBT].

NSA liaison for the DSVS/CTBT project offered information to me that NSA regarded former president Reagan as one of the US's foremost traitors for the reason  

  First, U.S. President Ronald Reagan informed the world on national television that the United States was     
  reading Libyan communications.  This admission was part  of a speech justifying the retaliatory bombing of 
  Libya for  its alleged involvement in the La Belle discotheque   bombing in Berlin's Schoeneberg district, 
  where two U.S.  soldiers and a Turkish woman were killed, and 200 others  injured. Reagan wasn't talking 
  about American monitoring of   Libyan news broadcasts. Rather, his "direct,  precise, and  undeniable proof" 
  referred to secret (encrypted) diplomatic  communication between Tripoli and the Libyan embassy in East 
  Berlin.

http://www.aci.net/kalliste/speccoll.htm

which is further explained at http://caq.com/CAQ/caq63/caq63madsen.html

  It may be the greatest intelligence scam of the century: For decades, the US has routinely intercepted and
  deciphered top secret encrypted messages of 120 countries.

In early 1992 a Sandia labs director decided that he and his subordinates were going to enter the data authentication business.

The director transferred me to break electronic locks for the Federal Bureau of Investigation.  

This work was funded by the FBI/Engineering Research Facility [FBI/ERF], Quantico, VA.

I ordered about $200,000 of the FBI/ERF's money buying two copies of electronic locks.

One lock I ordered was the Hirsch Scramblepad electronic lock.

In about 1991 I was following progress of lawsuits in the district of Northern California,

  The first two cases to directly address the issue of  intermediate copying both originated in California's
  Northern District Court.  They are Atari v. Nintendo and  Sega v. Accolade.  In both cases, the district court 
  found that intermediate copying was NOT fair use.

  [The New Use of Fair Use:  Accessing Copyrighted Programs Through 
  Reverse Engineering, Stephen B. Maebius, Journal of the Patent and 
  Trademark Office Society, June 1993, 75, n6, p433]

Judge Fern Smith presided in both cases.

Reason I was following Atari v Nintendo was that I my Forth book I have two chapters on reverse engineering software.

One chapter contains a computer program which copied a ROM BIOS to diskette.

Smith's decisions made my intermediate copying program illegal.

  In a strong opinion she [Fern Smith] wrote in March 1991,  when granting Nintendo's request for a           
  preliminary  injunction against Atari, she lambasted Atari's lawyers for  thievery.

I was given the job assignment to copy the ROMs of Hirsch's 8051-based Scramblepad electronic lock to reverse engineer them to hopefully allow me to modify the locks for allow surreptitious entry.

I refused to engage in illegal activity for the FBI.

The termination letter seen at http://jya.com/whpfiles.htm states

  This is to advise you that effective July 27, 1992, you  will be terminated from Sandia National Laboratories.   
  This action is the results of your flagrant attack on a valued   Sandia customer and repeated insensitivity to 
  security/classification requirement.  These acts violate   Sandia National Laboratories Code of Conduct, 
  specifically  the Personal Conduct section,, and the Safeguarding  Information and Records Section. ...

for my whistleblowing SAND report on the National Security Agency's deficient work and refusing to mark classified on a report I and Danny Drummond wrote on how to fake Wiegand Wire access entry credentials for the FBI.

Both I and my EEOC complaint officer Ray Armenta were never able to determine exactly why I was fired.

However March 22, 1997 I received copies of the enclosed

  1  April 15, 1994 letter to EEOC director Charles Burtner  from Sandia Diversity Leadership director 
      Michael G. Robles.

  2  July 27, 1997 Termination of Employment memorandum containing my signature.

  3  DISCIPLINARY REVIEW COMMITTEE MINUTES, July 16, 1992.

  4  DISCIPLINARY REVIEW COMMITTEE MINUTES, July 6, 1989.

  5  September 6, 1995 letter from EEOC Investigator Larry J. 
     Trujillo to Richard Gallegos.

from Sandian Richard Gallegos.

Sandia lawyer Harold Folley previously stated that no documents existed.

The Privacy Act states

  (d) Access to Records.--Each agency that maintains a system
  of records shall--
            (1) upon request by any individual to gain access
        to his record or to any information pertaining to him
        which is contained in the system, permit him and upon
        his request, a person of his own choosing to accompany
        him, to review the record and have a copy made of all
        or any portion thereof in a form comprehensible to him,
        except that the agency may require the individual to
        furnish a written statement authorizing discussion of
        that individual's record in the accompanying person's
        presence;

The Sandia Disciplinary Review Committee NEVER interviewed me to check the veracity of their statements.

The Privacy Act states

  (2) permit the individual to request amendment of a record pertaining to     
  him and--

The statements in the SDRC are incorrect. I followed all Sandia procedures known to me.  I did nothing wrong.

I had no opportunity to defend myself.  My rights guaranteed under the Constitution, Bill of Rights, Article XIV.

  Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and   
  subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the  United States  
  and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any 
  law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the 
  United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, 
  or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within 
  its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

have been violated.

C My permission was never asked to release these records to Gallegos.

As you may realize about the Privacy Act

  (b) Conditions of Disclosure.--No agency shall disclose any
  record which is contained in a system of records by any means
  of communication to any person, or to another agency, except
  pursuant to a written request by, or with the prior written
  consent of, the individual to whom the record pertains ...

The Privacy Act allows imposition of criminal penalties for those like members of the SDRC, Robles, Burtner,  and Trujillo who 

  (i)(1) Criminal Penalties.--Any officer or employee of an
  agency, who by virtue of his employment or official position,
  has possession of, or access to, agency records which contain
  individually identifiable information the disclosure of which
  is prohibited by this section or by rules or regulations
  established thereunder, and who knowing that disclosure of the
  specific material is so prohibited, willfully discloses the
  material in any manner to any person or agency not entitled to
  receive it, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and fined not more
  than $5,000.
    (2) Any officer or employee of any agency who willfully
  maintains a system of records without meeting the notice
  requirements of subsection (e)(4) of this section shall be
  guilty of a misdemeanor and fined not more than $5,000.

I forward criminal complaint affidavits on the above individuals to selected magistrate judge Marilyn Hall Patel.

Patel ignored my complaints. 

I return to the subject of breaking electronic locks for the FBI/ERF.

Smith's two decisions were overturned on appeal.

  However, both cases have been overruled on appeal. In the
  ground-breaking Atari decision, the Federal Circuit held
  that intermediate copying was a fair use.  The Sega
  decision, which was appealed to the Ninth Circuit Court of
  Appeals, similarly overruled the district court and held
  that intermediate copying may be fair use.

Sandia patents and trademark lawyer Gregory A. Cone in the enclosed affidavit for a ADEA lawsuit I filed in the District of New Mexico stated

  AFFIDAVIT OF GREGORY A. CONE

  Gregory A. Cone, being duly sworn, deposes and states:

  1. I am employed by Sandia Corporation.  I am an attorney
  admitted to practice law in the State of California and before the
  U. S. Patent and Trademark Office and concentrate on legal issues
  related to patent and copyright law.  In that capacity, I am 
  familiar with activities at the Sandia National Laboratories
  ("Sandia") as they related to what is sometimes referred to as
  "reverse engineering ." ...

  [I]t is the general view at Sandia that disassembly of "object
  code" under such circumstances constitutes a "fair use" of
  copyrighted software under 17 U.S.C. article 107 and is thus
  permissible.  Sandia bases its view on Sega Enterprises v.
  Accolade, Inc. 977 F.2d 1510, 24 U.S.P. Q. 2d 1561 (9th Cir.
  1992), amended, 1993 U. S. App. LEXIS 78, and Atari Games Corp
  v. Nintendo of America, Inc, 975 F.2d 832 (Fed. Cir. 
  1992).  ...

  FURTHER, Affidavit sayeth naught.
                                 
  (signed)
  GREGORY A. CONE

  SUBSCRIBED, SWORN TO and ACKNOWLEDGED before me on this 12th
  day of August, 1993, by Gregory A. Cone."
  (signed)
  Mary A. Resnick

  Notary Public

  My Commission Expires:

  2-7-94

Cone has the two citations reversed.  The U. S. Patent Quarterly references the Atari v Nintendo lawsuit 1510 should be corrected to 1015.

Cone issued the above affidavit to District of New Mexico federal court in attempt to show that I had no legal reason to refuse to  reverse engineer the Hirsch Scramblepad electronic lock.

I was covered under 10 C.F.R. 708 - DOE CONTRACTOR EMPLOYEE PROTECTION PROGRAM for my refusal to reverse engineer the Hirsch Scramblepad code.   

  708.1 Purpose,
  This part establishes procedures for timely and effective 
  processing of complaints by employees of contractors performing
  work at sites owned or leased by the Department of Energy (DOE),
  concerning alleged discriminatory actions taken by their employers
  in retaliation for the disclosure of information relative to health 
  and safety, mismanagement, and other matters as provided in 708.5(a),
  for participation in proceeding before Congress, or for the refusal
  to engage in illegal or dangerous activities." ...

Cone's affidavit attempts to create the appearance that reverse engineering was legal before July 27, 1992, the date of my firing.

  Title 18, Chapter 79, Article 1623 felony perjury.     

  Article 1623 - False declarations before grand jury or court
 (a) Whoever under oath (or in any declaration, certificate,
 verification, or statement under penalty of perjury as permitted 
 under section 1746 of title 28, United States Code) in any
 proceeding before or ancillary to any court or grand jury of
 the United States knowingly make any false material declaration 
 or makes or uses any other information, including any book, paper,
 document, record, recording, or other material, knowing the same
 to contain any false material declaration, shall be fined not more
 than $10,000 or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.
 
Decision of the Atari Games Corp. v. Nintendo of America appeal cited at page 1016 from 24 USPQ 2d was Decided SEPTEMBER 10, 1992.  

I was fired JULY 27, 1992 so my work assignment was illegal at the time I refused.

Therefore, Cone committed felony perjury IN WRITING filed with New Mexico District Federal Court.

Chronological review of criminal complaint affidavits would be valuable before I present the current criminal complaint affidavits.

1  Monday March 11, 1996 10:05 I wrote judge Fern Smith a certified return receipt requested letter to ask her to either arrange or personally indict Sandia lawyer Cone for felony perjury.

Smith did not respond.

2 Friday May 31, 1996 08:58 I write the criminal complaint affidavit for the arrest of Sandia lawyer Cone and appoint judge Fern Smith as magistrate.

3 Thursday June 13 on orders of Smith and Albuquerque FBI special agent in charge Thomas Kneir FBI agents Kohl and Schum visited my home at 17:08 to investigate me for sending letters referenced in 1 and 2 to Smith.

4  In response to 3 on Tuesday July 9, 1996 06:52 I filed criminal complaint affidavit against Cone, again, for felony perjury with J. Clifford Wallace, chief judge, Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals.  

Smith for

  § 4. Misprision of felony 

  Whoever, having knowledge of the actual commission of a felony cognizable   
  by a court of the United States, conceals and  does not as soon as possible make 
  known the same to some judge or other   person in civil or military authority under the
  United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more  than three years, 
  or both.

for Smith's failure to properly process Cone's felony perjury and
  
  § 241. Conspiracy against rights 

  If two or more persons conspire to injure, oppress, threaten, or   
  intimidate any person in any State, Territory, or District in
  the free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege secured to him 
  by the Constitution or laws of the United States, or because of his   
  having so exercised the same; ...

for sending, with Knier, FBI agents Kohl and Schum to my home in an attempt to intimidate me.

Knier for Conspiracy against rights for his complicity with Smith.

5  Monday July 15, 1996 06:23 I write Wallace again inquiring why he has not 
responded.

6  August 15, 1996 Thursday Ms. Corina Orozco, Deputy Clerk, Ninth Circuit 
Court of Appeals writes me to tell me

  In the future, all correspondence should be addressed to the
  Clerk of the Court.  Do not address any correspondence to
  any one specific judge of this court.

7  September 12, 1996 06:20 I inform Orozco by letter that she is obstructing justice.   I ask Orozco to desist.

8 July 25, 1996 Senior Case Expeditor [sic], Gwen Baptiste from the Office of the Clerk, United States Court of Appeals for The Ninth Circuit, writes

         Re: Complaint of Judicial Misconduct

      We have received your complaint of judicial misconduct.
      Pursuant to the Rules of the Judicial Council of the Ninth
      Circuit Governing Complaints of Judicial Misconduct or
      Disability, you complaint is being returned to you for
      compliance with the above rules.  A copy of these rules is
      enclosed.  To understand the purpose of the procedure and
      who may be complaint about please refer to Rules 1 and 2.

9  Wednesday September 18, 1996 11:05 by certified, return receipt requested mail I write Wallace again told tell him

  Lawyer Wallace, I did not intend to file or did I file a
  complaint of judicial misconduct.

  Lawyer Wallace, I filed a criminal complaint affidavit as I have
  a right to as a citizen of the United States of America when the
  criminal acts are committed by government personnel, their
  contractors, Department of Justice and judicial personnel.

10  Wednesday November 27, 1996 09:18 I wrote certified, return receipt requested letter to inform Wallace

  Purpose of this letter is to inform you of consequences of your failure   
  to perform your duties as required by law as magistrate judge.  You are 
  committing felony violations of law.

and

  If I have not complied with all applicable rules, then I ask that you 
  inform me of any non-compliance so that I can correct my criminal 
  complaints and re-submit them.

  I satisfied the requirement of the Constitution and Rules 3 and 4, and 
  issued written and sworn complaints that set forth the essential facts 
  constituting the offenses charged against Smith, Kneir, and Cone.  I 
  also showed facts showing that the offenses were committed by Smith, 
  Kneir and Cone and these individuals committed them.

  So I ask that you do your job and proceed with supervision of the 
  arrest and prosecution of Smith, Kneir, and Cone for title 18 felony 
  violations of law.

11  Monday March 24, 1997 17:57 I write a certified - return receipt requested letter to Marilyn Hall Patel, District Judge; California,  Northern to inform her she has been selected as magistrate to process the criminal complaint affidavit against Sandia Diversity Director Michael G. Robles for sending the enclosed SDRC report to Burtner of EEOC.

Robles did this without my written permission and without checking the accuracy of the information.  The information contained in the SDRC report is false and defaming.

12  Monday April 21, 1997 13:44 I write Patel a certified - return receipt requested letter containing a criminal complaint affidavit against Charles L Burtner, Director, U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission [EEOC] Larry J. Trujillo, Investigator, Phoenix District Office for sending the false and libelous enclosed documents to Richard Gallegos in Albuquerque without my written consent.

13 Thursday May 8, 1997 06:30 I write a certified - return receipt requested to Patel containing

  Purpose of this letter is to file a criminal complaint 
  affidavit against Sandia National Laboratories [Sandia]  
  Disciplinary Review Committee members and attendees G. H. 
  Libman, R.A. Polocasz,  D. B. Davis,  M. E. Courtney,  
  W. R. Geer, C. A. Searls, J. D.  Giachino,  R. L. Ewing,  
  A. M. Torneby, R. B. Craner,  C. W. Childers,  E. Dunckel,  
  D. S. Miyoshi, J. J McAuliffe,  J. D. Martin, and  R. C. 
  Bonner for violation of the criminal penalties section of 
  the Privacy Act, 5 USC 552a(i)(2) and Title 18 felony 
  violations of Civil Rights, Section 241, Conspiracy against 
  right to citizens.

for their roles in maintaining an illegal system of records.

Sandia refused to acknowledge existence of the enclosed SDRC report and for denying my rights guaranteed under the Constitution.

I was never interviewed by the SDRC committee or had any chance to defend my self against the false and defaming claims of the SDRC.

14 Friday June 13, 1997 12:41 I write a certified, return receipt requested to Wallace containing a criminal complaint affidavit against Margret D. Thomas, Judicial Assistant to the Honorable 
Marilyn Hall Patel for violating  

  § 1512. Tampering with a witness, victim, or an informant ...
  (C) prevent the communication by any person to a law enforcement officer  
  or judge of the United States of information relating to the commission  
  or possible commission of a Federal offense ...
  (3) hinder, delay, or prevent the communication to a law enforcement 
  officer or judge of the United States of information relating to the   
  commission or possible commission of a Federal offense ...
  shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or  
  both. 

for writing on May 9, 1997

	Dear Mr. Payne:

		We are in receipt of your recent letters.  Please
	be advised that we do not issue warrants on criminal 
	proceeding absent an indictment, information or complaint
	initiated by the United States Attorney.  For this reason,
	and by copy of this letter, we are referring this matter
	to that office.  Any future correspondence concerning these
	events should be sent to the United States Attorney and not
	to judge Patel.  Thank you.

				Very truly yours,

				MARGARET D. THOMAS
				Judicial Assistant to the Honorable
				Marilyn Hall Patel

	cc:  Joel Levin
 	      Criminal Section
	      Assistant United States Attorney

Judge Hug, Rule 3 of the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure,  entitled the Complaint provides:

   The complaint is a written statement of the essential facts  constituting the offense charged.   It shall be   
  made upon  oath before a magistrate.

As you may be aware,

  An individual may "make a written complaint on oath before an  examining and committing magistrate, and 
  obtain a warrant of  arrest."  This is in conformity with the Federal Constitution,   and "consonant with the 
  principles of natural justice and    personal liberty found in the common law."
   
   [United States v Kilpatrick (1883, DC NC) 16G 765, 769]

You may also be aware,

   A complaint though quite general in terms is valid if it  sufficiently apprises the defendant of the nature of 
   the offense with which he is charged.

   [United States v Wood (1927, DC Tex) 26F2d 908, 910, affd 
   (CA5 Tex) 26 F2d 912.]

And for your edification,

   The commission of a crime must be shown by facts positively stated.  The oath or affirmation required is of 
   facts and not  opinions or conclusion.

   [United States ex rel. King v Gokey (1929, DC NY) 32 F2d
    93, 794]

   The complaint must be accompanied by an oath.

   [Re Rules of Court (1877, CC Ga) 3 Woods 502, F Cas No
    2126]

   A complaint must be sworn to before a commissioner or other  officer empowered to commit persons 
   charged with offenses  against the United States.

   [United States v Bierley ( 1971, WD Pa) 331 F Supp 1182]

   Such office is now called a magistrate.

   A complaint is ordinarily made by an investigating officer or  agent, and where private citizens seek 
   warrants of arrest, the    practice recommended by the Judicial Conference of the United 
   States is to refer the complaint to the United States Attorney.    However, further reference to him is 
   rendered futile where a   mandamus proceeding is brought to compel him to prosecute and 
   he opposes the proceeding.

   [Pugach v Klein (1961, SD NY) 193 F Supp 630, citing Manual
    for United States Commissioners 5 (1948)]

Any attempt to bring criminal complaints to government authorities would, of course, be futile.

I am a citizen of the United States and, judge Hug, you are the assigned magistrate.

   In order to satisfy the requirement of the Constitution and Rules 3 and 4, a written and sworn complaint 
   should set forth   the essential facts constituting the offense charged and also    facts showing that the offense 
   was committed and that the  defendant committed it.

And,

   As to the requirement that the complaint be made on personal knowledge of the complainant, it is enough 
   for the issuance of a warrant that a complainant shows it to be on the  knowledge of the complainant.

   [Giordenello v United States (1958) 357 US 480, 2 L Ed. 2d
    1503, 78 S Ct 1245, rev. (Ca5 Tx) 241 F2d 575, 579 in accord
    Rice v Ames (1901) 180 US 371, 45 L Ed 577, 21 S ct 406, and
    United States v Walker, (1952, CA2 NY) 197 F 2d 287, 289,
    cert den 344 US 877, 97 L Ed 679, 73 S Ct 172]

So as to keep contiguous the requirements of the law ad the criminal complaint affidavit, I will include these complaints in this letter to you.

      CRIMINAL COMPLAINT AFFIDAVIT:  J Clifford Wallace

Essential material facts are:
     
1 Tuesday July 9, 1996 06:52 Payne files criminal complaint affidavit on Sandia lawyer Cone for felony perjury with J Clifford Wallace, chief judge, Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals and judge Fern Smith for 
Misprision of felony for failure to prosecute Cone and Conspiracy against rights for sending, with FBI Albuquerque agent-in-charge Knier, FBI agents Kohl and Schum to Payne's home in an attempt to intimidate Payne.

2  Repeated attempts by certified return receipt requested mail to urge Wallace to do his job enumerated to 5-10 and 14 above in this letter go unanswered.

Count 1  Wallace made no attempt to bring lawyer Cone to justice despite possessing WRITTEN evidence of criminal activity.  Therefore,  Wallace is charged with Title 18   § 4. Misprision of felony for Wallace's failure to properly process criminal complaint affidavit.

Count 2  Wallace made no attempt to bring judge Fern Smith to justice despite possessing WRITTEN evidence of misprision of felony for not properly processing the criminal complaint affidavit against lawyer Cone and § 1512. Tampering with a witness, victim, or an informant for sending FBI agents Kohl and Schum to Payne's home in an attempt to intimidate Payne. Therefore , Wallace is charged with Title 18   § 4. Misprision of felony for Wallace's failure to properly process a criminal complaint affidavit.

Count 3  Wallace made no attempt to bring FBI agent-in-charge to justice for violation of § 1512. Tampering with a witness, victim, or an informant for sending FBI agents Kohl and Schum to Payne's home in an attempt to intimidate Payne. Wallace is charged with Title 18   § 4. Misprision of felony for Wallace's failure to properly process a criminal complaint affidavit.

Count 4  Wallace made no attempt to bring MARGARET D. THOMAS to justice for violation of   § 1512. Tampering with a witness, victim, or an informant ... for writing Thomas' May 9, 1997 to Payne. Wallace is charged with Title 18   § 4. Misprision of felony for Wallace's failure to properly process a criminal complaint affidavit.

                             	VERIFICATION

    	Under penalty of perjury as provided by law, the undersigned certifies 	pursuant to 28 USC section 
              1746 that material factual statements set forth in this criminal complaint are true and correct, except   
              as to any matters therein stated to be information and belief of such matters the undersigned certifies 
              as aforesaid that the undersigned verily believes the same to be true.



          	Date               William H. Payne
                                    13015 Calle de Sandias NE
                                    Albuquerque, NM 87111
                                    505-292-7037


      CRIMINAL COMPLAINT AFFIDAVIT: Marilyn Hall Patel

Essential material facts are:
     
1 Patel failed to respond to certified return receipt requested criminal complaint affidavits specified in 11 - 13 in this letter.

Count 1  Patel made did not properly process criminal complaint affidavits despite being in possession of documents showing criminal violations of the Privacy Act and violation of civil rights. Therefore,  Patel is charged with Title 18   § 4. Misprision of felony for Patel's failure to properly process criminal complaint affidavits.

                             	VERIFICATION

    	Under penalty of perjury as provided by law, the undersigned certifies 	pursuant to 28 USC section 
              1746 that material factual statements set forth in this criminal complaint are true and correct, except   
              as to any matters therein stated to be information and belief of such matters the undersigned certifies 
              as aforesaid that the undersigned verily believes the same to be true.



          	Date                William H. Payne
                                    13015 Calle de Sandias NE
                                    Albuquerque, NM 87111
                                    505-292-7037

Judge Hug, I have been  extremely patient with judges and clerks of the district of Northern California and Ninth Circuit.  

Criminal compliant affidavits were filed between March 11, 1996 and June 13, 1997.

Nothing has happened as of April 1, 1998.

I ask that you 

  1  issue warrants of arrest or
  2  inform me why you cannot proceed to do what I request

within 60 calendar days.

Smith's case is particularly egregious. 

Smith and Albuquerque FBI agent in charge James K. Weber, who replaced Kneir, sent US Marshals Lester and Lopez to my home on  January 24, 1997 in a second attempt to intimidate me.

Anotin Scalia was appointed magistrate to process criminal complaint affidavits against Smith and others for the second intimidation attempt.

Sincerely,



William H. Payne
13015 Calle de Sandias NE
Albuquerque, NM 87111

					VERIFICATION

	Under penalty of perjury as provided by law, the undersigned certifies 	pursuant to 28 USC section 
              1746 that material factual statements set forth in this criminal complaint are true and correct, except   
              as to any matters therein stated to be information and belief of such matters the undersigned certifies 
              as aforesaid that the undersigned verily believes the same to be true.



          	Date               William H. Payne
                                    13015 Calle de Sandias NE
                                    Albuquerque, NM 87111
                                    505-292-7037


Enclosures
Privacy Act criminal violation documents, 11 pages
AFFIDAVIT OF GREGORY A. CONE,  4 pages
May 9, 1997 letter from MARGARET D. THOMAS, 1 page




13





Friday 5/1/98 9:48 AM
 
Certified   Return receipt requested

Cathy A Catterson, Clerk
Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals
121 Spear Street
POB 193939
San Francisco, CA 94119-9800
415 744 9800
 
Dear Clerk Catterson:

Purpose of this letter is to discover the REASON the criminal complaint addressed
to Ninth circuit judge Proctor Hug  Jr dated Wednesday  4/1/98  11:02 AM was
returned to me WITHOUT COVER LETTER.

I attach a copy of the envelope the above material was enclosed.  

Return address is

	CLERK, U.S. COURT OF APPEALS
	P.O. BOX 547
	SAN FRANCISCO, CA 94101-0547

	OFFICIAL BUSINESS
	PENALTY FOR PRIVATE USE, 300

Postmark is SAN FRANCISCO, CALIF  APR 24 98 U.S. POSTAGE $2.62
METER 504753.

The envelope is hand-addressed and stamped CONFIDENTIAL.

Since no cover letter was enclosed to explain the return of what I believe is
both a valid and lawful criminal complaint affidavit supported by WRITTEN
EVIDENCE, some even in FILED court documents, I feel we must investigate
to discover the REASON.

All of the accused are federal employees or contractor employees.

Possibility exists that return of the enclosed criminal complaint affidavit without
cover letter stating the REASON may indicate violation of Title 18

  § 1512. Tampering with a witness, victim, or an informant 

  [(b)]  Whoever knowingly ...  corruptly persuades another  person, or  attempts to do so, or engages in 
misleading conduct toward another person, with intent to -  ...
 
  (2) cause or induce any person to - 
     (A) withhold testimony, or withhold a record, document, or other object, from an 
           official proceeding; ...
  (3) hinder, delay, or prevent the communication to a law enforcement officer or judge of the United     
        States of information relating to the commission or possible commission of a Federal offense ...
        shall be fined under  this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both. 
   (c) Whoever intentionally harasses another person and thereby hinders, delays, prevents, or dissuades any    
           person   from - ...
    (2) reporting to a law enforcement officer or judge of the United States the commission or possible
          commission of a Federal offense ...  or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not 
          more than one year, or both. 

Clerk Catterson, you may be aware  that under § 1512

  (d) In a prosecution for an offense under this section, it is an affirmative defense, as to which the defendant   
  has the  burden of proof by a preponderance of the evidence, that the conduct consisted solely of lawful 
  conduct ...

Therefore, I ask that you investigate to discover WHO returned the enclosed criminal complaint affidavit to 
me.

And report the REASON the criminal complaint affidavit was returned to me.

I ask that you respond within 30 days.

Sincerely,



William H. Payne
13015 Calle de Sandias NE
Albuquerque, NM 87111




2






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: TruthMonger 
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 12:38:51 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Epilogue 7.3 - SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS!!!
Message-ID: <354A24B5.79FD@algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Epilogue 7.3 Rev. 2.7-SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS!!!
___________________________________________________
 
 I'm in an apologetic mood this morning, so I would like to take this opportunity to tell those who I have offended in the past, and those who I may offend in the future by my boorish behavior which reflects a total lack of both character and proper upbringing...
  Well, I'd like to tell them all to "FUCK OFF AND DIE!"

  Nothing personal, gang, but as some famous guy once said,
	"He who excuses, accuses."
	~ Some famous guy...

   I really should apologize for being too fucking lazy to grab a pitchfork and go through my filing system to properly attribute the quote above...but I won't.
  You see, I have no social skills. None. Nada. Null.

  I should also apologize for never having made an effort to acquire proper social skills...but I won't.
  In a society in which Finger Pointing (TM) is endemic among those who harbor a secret desire to live in a world epitomized by the movie, 'The Running Man', it borders on self-abuse to add to the mountains of accusations that society already heaps upon one for even the smallest of deviations from a 'norm' which is widely held up to be 'common sense' / 'the way things are' / 'obvious to any decent, God Fearing [Your nationality or religion here] individual'.
  Being a Deviant From The NormChomsky School of Social UnSchooling ('Norm' is unlikely to lay awake at night waiting for the phone to ring, in order to receive my apology for fucking up his name), I have long recognized that those who consider themselves to be 'God fearing Americans' are, in actuality, often 'Dog fearing Americans' whose beliefs and actions are the result, not of a fear of 'Holy God' roasting their sorry, morally sinning ass, but rather, the result of the fear of the 'Unholy Dog', who is at the end of the leash being held by the Enforcers of Law and Order, Family Values, Cryptography Export Regulations and the Eleventh Commandment (EveryThingNotPermittedIsForbidden).

  It's a predatory universe, and the human animal is the chief predator. (A fact that would be readily confirmed by Ms. PARKER of TV's latest biosemiotic hint of man's future evolution, 'Prey'.)
  'World's Scariest Police Chases' is nothing more than a pilot program for a variety of 'Running Man Electronic Realities' which are only waiting for proper technological development and implementation before John and Jane Savage will be able to tune their Infrared Digital Brain Implant in the proper channel where they can hear the scream of the tires and feel the wetness of the blood as a car full of teenagers slams into a concrete wall while trying to flee the deadly hunting hounds who are trained to both instill and track the scent of fear in their prey.

  What is a human life worth?
  Apparently, it is worth less than the cost of a minor traffic ticket, whether it is the life of the person who failed to signal their turn (even though there was no moving traffic anywhere in sight), or the life of some unfortunate child who crossed the street at an inopportune time, on their way home to their birthday party.
  Of course, to be fair, we must keep in mind that the person fleeing the minor traffic offense may be a pedophile, and if the death of an innocent child saves the life of just one innocent child...uuhhh...never mind...
  Don't hold your breath waiting for 'World's Scariest Police Chases Resulting In The Deaths Of Innocent Bystanders.' (Can you say "Watch me and I'll bleed you 'cause you eat the shit I feed you...And when somebody's mother gets machine gunned in the street, we'll send some Joker with a Brownie, so you'll see it all, complete...?" Sure you can...)

  The price of a human life is just as cheap in America as it is in what are held to be 'less civilized' areas of the world, but the advertising experts and spin-doctors in charge of 'Manufacturing Consent' in the American people for submissive subjugation to Heavily Armed Thugs have had the advantage of decades of experience in exercising Control Over Access To Information and thus shape the jigs upon which our Consent To Agree To 'The Way Things Are' is Manufactured at any given point in time.

  The danger that Unregulated Access To Information presents to the current structure of government, business and society, is that it allows any member of the human race to participate in the Manufacturing of Consent as to what is acceptable and what is unacceptable in the areas of our life which are shared with various layers of the Social Onion.
  For instance, this very missive might be seen as an attempt by the Author to Manufacture Consent for any individuals who feel their life is threatened by the dangerous driving of law enforcement personnel to 'pop a cap' in their ignorant brains as they drive by, if the threat they pose to one's safety can be removed with little likelyhood of endangering others.
  Remember, 'If it saves the life of a single child...'

  The size, shape, function, model number and serial number of Consent depends largely on where, how and by whom it is Manufactured.
  How the fuck did WeTheSheeple manage to allow ourselves to be manipulated into giving our Consent for Janet Reno to slaughter a spiritual community of men, women and children who died a horrible, screaming, fiery death for holding unconventional religious views? How the fuck did WeTheSheeple manage to sit up straight in our chairs and quit fidgeting, while giving our Consent for the mainstream media to feed us Law and Order pamphlets handed out by the same Department of Justice criminal monsters who slaughtered our fellow citizens?
  How the fuck do WeTheSheeple manage to watch dozens of police cars endangering the public with their dangerous driving in order to prevent a single vehicle from endangering the public and manage to give our Consent for them turning traffic rules into excuses for violating the Constitutional rights of the citizens and using deadly force against anyone who attempts to avoid violation of their civil rights and affronts to their human dignity?

  Vin ThePolishKike, who I revere for the sanity and wisdom which he brings to his Mountain Media News releases (even though I'm too lazy to look up how to spell his unAmerican name, and can't resist taking a few cheap, racist shots at him just to attempt to suitably repay him for his contributions to our Biosemiotic Evolution by helping to ensure that he will 'Never Forget'), has not been remiss in exercising his Dog-given right to participate in the Manufacturing of Consent,  by expessing the view (which I am about to badly misquote), "We have reached the point where it is morally right to shoot the bastards, but it is not yet feasible to do so."

  "Who will help me to Manufacture Consent to Nuke DC?" said the little Red May.

  "Who will help me Manufacture Consent to engage the bastards in a continuous rEvolutionary battle where our targets are chosen, as much as possible, rather than being just random victims of misguided rage?" said the little White Weber.

  "Who will help me Manufacture Consent to avoid endangering innocent children by refusing to drive dangerously in order to escape the armed thugs, and instead seizing every safe opportunity to resist their oppression by stealth and craftiness, if possible, but by violence and death, if necessary?" said the little Black ArmyOfDogMongrel.

  As a member of the Congress of WeThePeople who have as much right to Manufacture Consent as do the members of the corrupt Congress of WeTheSheepShearers, I am casting my vote upon the waters of opinion in favor of restoring the right of WeThePeople to individually and collectively institute the Death Penalty for Oppressors.
  I am adding my voice to those of others with the wisdom and courage to do their part in Manufacturing Consent for their fellow citizens to stop and shake the hand of the individual who took the time and trouble to 'pop a cap' in the brains of the dangerous armed thugs endangering the populace with their stupidity and carelessness in matching the insanity of those they claim to be protecting us from.

  The next time you have an opportunity to watch 'The Running Man', make a point of noticing that the 'contestants' haven't been brainwashed into meekly submitting to whatever form of armed violence is directed toward them for their real or imagined crimes. And make a point of noticing who your heart, mind and soul are rooting for...
  Then ask yourself if you want to live a life where you meekly submit to all manner of affronts to your rights and human dignity, while numbing yourself to 'the way things are In Reality' by opiating your psyche with Digital Emmisions from the Puppet Masters which are designed to use Virtual Reality to compensate for the thoughts and emotions you are required to suppress and deny in your Physical, Emotional and Mental Daily Realities.

  Thelma and Louise had the right idea...they just should have waited until there was a cherry-top in front of them...







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 10:40:35 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Reno reports "suspicion" in industry crypto-negotiations
In-Reply-To: <199805011541.RAA23552@basement.replay.com>
Message-ID: <199805011740.NAA22381@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Daley's statement on crypto export has been pulled from the DoC
Public Affairs Web site, as noted in Peter Junger's latest filing,
in which the vanished statement is cited as support for lifting 
suspicious back-scratch dealings like ACP's.

   http://jya.com/pdj9.htm

What's the latest on publicizing the several ACP drafts floating 
around "industry and agencies" for comment on what TLAs and 
ACP are rigging in the public interest.

Weren't some of these stalking drafts nearly liberated recently? 
Or were they only floated for trusted eyes only?

Congressional hearings are due shortly to air the stench.

As Entrust said in defense of its patenting what was thought
to be in the public interest: "Encryption is no longer an academic
pursuit, now it's very big business."

RSA, NAI, Entrust, ACP, TLA, take your pick, not that there's much
diff where "national economic security" interest surpasses the public.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: TruthMonger 
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 12:38:56 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Epilogue 8.2 - SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS!!!
Message-ID: <354A2515.4A0@algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Epilogue 8.2, Rev. 1.8 - SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS !!!
_______________________________________________________

"Lord knows when the cold wind blows, it will turn your head around."
~ James Taylor

  Adversity tends to break down the smooth functioning of our comfortably programmed beliefs via forcing a change in our ordinary habits of perception in regard to the world around us. This is true whether the adversity or perceived threat is real or imagined.
  When some aspect of our survival, including the survival of our comfortably programmed mental, emotional and physical states, is threatened, we tend to become aware of things which were previously invisible or vaguely opaque elements of our environment, or to see things that were already encompassed by the range of our usual perceptive viewpoint in an entirely different way.

  One might compare a kick in the ass to a software program interrupt that boots one out of the preprogrammed loop that they follow as a matter of routine, and throws them into a reactive EITHER/OR 'fight or flight' routine. Or, if they happen to be wired and programmed to be able to function using higher level logic and languages than are necessitated by mere survival, they might branch to a series of nested conditional loops which, like Tai Chi, enables them to act in whatever manner is most fitting given the original goal of their program and taking into consideration the nature of the error message that was imparted to their backside by an unexpected boot process.


  "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was RTFM!"

  Three days after I betrayed my Toshiba Tecra laptop for thirty cans of Silver Bullet, enabling the Roman BorderGuards to take it away to be crucified upon the Cross of Free Speech, I rolled back the stone at the door of the cave where the body of my Opus SPARCard 2 lay and dragged it out into the light of day where, seeing its own shadow, it predicted that there would be three more weeks of Snow Crash.
  Computer Gods work in mysterious ways, especially when I am drunk, which probably explains why THEY came to me in a double-vision and I once again heard the inner voice which had been silenced by years of medication and therapy. The voice said, "OPUS is not dead, but merely sleepeth."

  After paying alms to the Used PC Priests and offering a 386 IBM-PC up for sacrifice to the UNIX rising from the ashes, I  instituted a GNU World Order among the Byteizens living in the Land of PROM, and my SPARCard 2 came to life, feeding off of the flesh of the DOS interface which the Computer God, OPUS, had destined to serve at the feet of the Eunuchs Masters.

  "I shall deliver you up out of Redmond, past the Gates of the Pharoh, and I shall be your Get, and you shall be my Pipe-l."

  Since the resurrection of my SPARCard 2, every day begins with a miracle of life, as the Spirit of the Father of Eunuchs, the Sun OS, and the "Holy Shit! Great Caesar's Ghost...it works!" is breathed into the NULL PROM registers by the laying of hands on the keyboard, sending shivers down the spines of Daemons, Zombies and Orphan Zombies.
   I've got a KILL command, and I'm not afraid to use it...


  Of course, the Holy Roman Empire is not about to fold up its tent and cancel its plans to build the Fourth Reich on the Tomb of the UnStoned Soldier of the Army of Dog just because an unrepentant WinLuser has temporarily escaped their sentence of Death of Free Speech by hiding in the Holy Shit! Temple, underneath the KILLts of the Circle of Eunuchs.
  Desert Storm was just a NWO practice run to fine tune the Patriot missles in preparation for the return of Jesus in a Stealth Bomber, "like a thief in the night." St. John the Divine Lay Preacher mistook the sounds of incoming Scud missles and outgoing Patriot missles for the blaring of trumpets.  When the Army of God descends out of heaven, they'd better be wearing Kevlar...


"Every time I start getting ahead in the rat race, they bring  in faster rats."
~ A Slow Rat

  A few years ago, Dudley DoWrong took a serious run at my liberty of movement by charging me with a couple of traffic offenses and trying to yank my driver's license.
  After two years of dragging a pack of Rabid Wombats Cleverly Disguised As Witnesses into court (accompanied by a Mountie assigned to keep an eye and a gun turned in the direction of the MadDogInPossession defendant), it finally came down to blows, and I wiped the floors of the Halls of Justice with the tight ass of the federal Queen's Bench counsellor appointed to prosecute me. (He had a stick up his ass, so it was a lot like using a regular mop.)

  I have had quite a few people come to me over the years for help with keeping the long dick of the law from being hidden from the sun in their own backyard.
  There seems to be some kind of perception among the lower stratocasters of the local community that I am some kind of killer legal-eagle genius who is able to eat legal-rats that are larger than his head.
  Although I enjoy occassionally basking in the warm glow of the approval of Squeaky From's peers, the fact of the matter is, I am actually more of a legal-buzzard--working out of a carrion bag in between flights of fancy during which I look down on the struggling wayfarers wandering in circles, lost in a wasteland of rules and legal proceedures which turn out to be merely shimmering mirages appearing to be an Oasis of Truth and Justice until the poor, parched pricks get close enough to see that their mind and eyes were once again fooled by illusions created by their delusions--and, rather than being a Great Bird of Prey who eats the RatLawyers alive, I am merely a Vulture who picks at the carcasses of the dead and dying former Champions of Justice who sold their souls to the Mobsters Cleverly Disguised As Politicians.

  Of course, the mail-order, money-back-guarantee 'Be Your Own Legal-Beagle Kit' (send $19.95 + $5.00 S&H to: Baby Dog Enterprises, Box 281, Bienfait, Saskatchewan SOC OMO) I use to snatch Justice from the Jaws of Legal Sharks is meant for use only in trolling for the big fish in small ponds and small fish in big ponds, and is not designed for use by serious FisherKings trolling for Killer KingFish in the home of the SwampThing, where Legal Dinosaurs still roam at large, crushing underfoot anything and anyone that gets in their way.
  When the omnipresent, nefarious They (TM) call out the National Guard to descend upon your sorry ass, and They (TM) turn to the Desert Rat to sniff through your garbage and find something dirty and smelly enough to delight a hand-picked jury of God Fearing Decent People's Peers, then it's time to put in a call to Larry Joe Dowling, a West Texas Rat Wrangler, and the aptly-named Bob Looney, one of LBJ's former Legally Drunk Beagles.

  Larry Joe is one of the few lawyers whose standards have remained high enough that he will work in return for really great pussy, and his good Texas breeding ensures that he will be discreet in screwing your old-lady, so as not to cause you any undue embarassment for your lack of sufficient capital to retain a legal representative capable of keeping a straight face when words like Truth and Justice accidentally escape from the lips of the judge and prosecutor.
  Besides, if They (TM) want you badly enough to make it worth your attorney's while to sell you down the river, then you damn-straight better better team up with an experienced Rounder who has the decency to pay the bar-bill at the end of your tax-deductible, late-night legal conferences. (And whose partner-in-(government)crime(fighting) helps to keep your spirits (pardon the pun) up by raising his glass, in toast to the Blind Broad, and announcing, loud enough to be heard over the din of the surrounding Last Call Warriors, "If Jack Daniel's be with us, then who can be against us?"

  I use a simple rule-of-thumb to guage the level of the blindside attack on my sorry butt that is being secretly prepared deep within the bowels of the Rat's Nest in Can You *Say* That Word On The Internet(?), Saskatchwan.
  The more shit-disturbing that the BigTeeth Enforcer Rats let you get away with without uttering even the slightest of squeaks in your direction, then the further ahead they are setting your own personal DoomsDay Clock during their illegal, surrepticious entries into your home while you are down at the CoalDust Saloon.
  When you can run around Southern Saskatchewan distributing 'WANTED DEAD OR ALIVE' posters putting a price on the head of the thieving scum who stole your computer and not hear a peep-squeak out of them, then your DoomsDay Clock is already set to one minute after midnight, and you're drinking on borrowed time.
  (Which means that I'd better get my butt down to the CoalDust Saloon so that I'll be there when the barmaid opens the door, and she won't freak out and run down main street screaming 'The sky is falling...The sky is falling!" like she did the last time I didn't arrive until 33 seconds after opening time.)

Smoke 'em if you got 'em...







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: TruthMonger 
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 12:39:16 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Constitution For Sale
Message-ID: <354A256F.4030@algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



CONSTITUTION FOR SALE
_____________________

1776 Constitution for sale. Inherited from original owner.
Hasn't been used for years, but can be easily restored to
its original condition by extermination of the rats which
have taken up residence under the hood and the removal of
useless accessories which were added by a long series of
unethical mechanics who saw the prospect of making more
money if it continually drifted to the right or the left 
than if the integrity of its original design was retained.
Truly must be seen to be appreciated.
Must be appreciated to be truly seen.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: TruthMonger 
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 12:39:20 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Crime Sale!
Message-ID: <354A25BD.A09@algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


CHEVY CHASE FORD & 'CRAZY BOTMA' MERCURY 
         DEALERSHIPS ANNOUNCE A
      GIGANTIC BLOWOUT CRIME SALE !!!
      _______________________________

DUE TO A CURRENT OVERSTOCK OF CRIMINALS AND THE NEW 
MAKES OF CRIME BEING PRODUCED IN OUR DC FACTORY EVERY 
DAY, CHEVY CHASE AND 'CRAZY BOTMA' ARE ABLE TO OFFER YOU 
*UNBELIEVABLE* *DEALS* ON A WIDE VARIETY OF BOTH NEW 
AND OLDER CRIMES.

THIS MAKES IT AN OPPORTUNE TIME FOR *YOU* TO GET INTO 
WHATEVER TYPE OF CRIME YOU'VE DREAMED ABOUT FOR YEARS,
BUT THOUGHT YOU COULD NEVER AFFORD TO PAY FOR.

WE'RE MOVING OLDER MODEL CRIMINALS OUT THE DOOR EVERY DAY,
AND EVEN SENDING FELONY CRIMINALS OUT THE DOOR AT AN EVER
INCREASING RATE, YET WE *STILL* CAN'T KEEP UP WITH THE 
DEMAND OF OUR DC FACTORY TO FIND CUSTOMERS FOR THE NEW
CRIMES BEING CREATED EVERY DAY BY THEIR SOCIAL ENGINEERS. 

WE'RE SO DESPERATE THAT WE'RE WILLING TO PLEAD WITH YOU
TO ACCEPT THE BARGAINS WE ARE CURRENTLY ABLE TO OFFER.

NOT ONLY ARE WE ABLE TO GUARANTEE THAT WE CAN FIT YOU INTO
ANY OF A VARIETY OF THE WIDE SPECTRUM OF CRIMINAL CATEGORIES
CURRENTLY AVAILABLE BUT WE CAN OFFER YOU A DEAL THAT WILL
HAVE YOU BACK OUT THE DOOR IN RECORD TIME.
WHAT'S MORE, DUE TO THE CURRENTLY HIGH RECALL RATE WE ARE
EXPERIENCING AS A RESULT OF SENDING UNSAFE CRIMINALS OUT
THE DOOR, WE CAN PROMISE TO GIVE YOU AN EVEN BETTER DEAL
ON A NEW CRIME IN THE FUTURE, EVEN IF YOU HAVEN'T FINISHED
PAYING FOR YOUR ORIGINAL CRIME.

ONCE WE HAVE FIT YOU INTO A THIRD FELONY CRIME, YOU WILL
AUTOMATICALLY BECOME A LIFETIME CUSTOMER AND ELIGIBLE TO
MOVE FROM OUR 'EASY PAYMENT' PLAN TO OUR 'LIFETIME PAYMENT'
PLAN WHERE WE *INSIST* THAT YOU TAKE *FOREVER* TO PAY FOR
YOUR CRIME.

WITH THE EVER INCREASING ABILITY OF OUR DC FACTORY TO
PRODUCE NEW CRIMES AT AN ASTOUNDING RATE, IT HAS NEVER
BEEN EASIER TO FIT INTO OUR CUSTOMER PROFILE.

        "IF THE CUSTOMER DOESN'T FIT THE CRIME, 
         WE'LL MAKE THE CRIME FIT THE CUSTOMER."
                    THAT'S A PROMISE!






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 11:49:10 -0700 (PDT)
To: Recipient List Suppressed:;
Subject: db$: The Wright Brothers vs. Chixalub
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



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X-Sender: rah@pop.sneaker.net (Unverified)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 17:50:18 -0400
To: e$@vmeng.com
From: Robert Hettinga 
Subject: db$: The Wright Brothers vs. Chixalub
Sender: 
Precedence: Bulk
List-Subscribe: 


--- begin forwarded text


X-Sender: rah@pop.sneaker.net (Unverified)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 15:26:30 -0400
To: Digital Bearer Settlement List 
From: Robert Hettinga 
Subject: db$: The Wright Brothers vs. Chixalub
Sender: 
Precedence: Bulk
List-Subscribe: 
X-Web-Archive: http://www.philodox.com/dbs-archive/

You might notice that the tag on this one says "db$". That's to
differentiate it from my "e$" rants, which might be more general than ones
like this one, which is on digital bearer settlement. I think there is lots
of talk about electronic commerce and e$ these days from whole bunches of
people, and, as a consequence, my interest in it has focused more onto the
issue of digital bearer settlement.  You'll probably be seeing more db$
tags than e$ tags on my rants going forward.

All of which brings me to some obversations I've been making in public
about blind signatures lately, and the excellent time I had at Ed Yeardon's
Cutter Consortium "Summit" conference the past few days.


Let's start with yet another aviation analogy about Digicash, shall we? :-).

Remember, I like to do that.

Once I compared privacy to flight, and said that, like flight, lots of
people had died getting strong cryptography to work, and that privacy
itself was an inherent good. The thing which actually got people to use the
technology, however, was its commercial value. It wasn't the joy of flight
or slipping the surly bounds of earth at Kitty Hawk that got people into
the air, it was coach fare to Dayton. It was digital commerce, and thus
financial cryptography, which created the most privacy. Digital Commerce is
financial cryptography, financial cryptography is strong cryptography, and
all that.

Then there's my analogy of book-entry settlement as Boyle's law (partial
pressure of gasses?) and strong crypto, particularly digital bearer
settlement, as Bernoulli's law, the law describing aerodynamic lift.
Essentially you can think of cryptography and bearer settlement as wings,
and book entries as, well, bags of gas. :-).

Thinking this way, with commerce on the internet as flight, First Virtual
becomes a tethered baloon. Encrypting your First Virtual transaction makes
it an aerodynamic barrage balloon. Encrypting a credit card in an SSL
web-form is flying around on a Zeppelin. And, David Chaum becomes the
Wright Brothers for inventing the airplane. I used to say "Or maybe Otto
Lillenthal" under my breath to get a laugh, but now, I know exactly why
David Chaum is the Wright Brothers.

That's because Digicash *is* The Wright Flying Machine Company, or whatever
the Wright's subsequent enterprise was called. It seems to me that
Digicash's strategy with the blind signature is a dead ringer for the
Wright Brothers' control of the airplane patent. Here's why:


1. In the beginning, nobody believed that the Wright brothers could fly,
and they had to take the airplane to Paris and demonstrate it there before
anyone in the US thought it was true.

Digicash did the same thing. Actually, the NSA created a positively hostile
environment here in the USA for cryptography, financial or otherwise, and
that forced David Chaum to go to the Netherlands, where there was a more
positive reception for his work.

2. Then, nobody could think about what you could do with airplanes, and the
Wrights foundered for a bit..

Same thing with Chaum, Digicash, and the blind signature patent. The
commercial internet didn't exist yet in 1986, and blind signatures were
conceived as useful only in smartcards, which were just being experimented
with. Digicash was going to be used in physical electronic wallets, and
maybe in transponders at the gates of toll roads. The CAFE project was an
example of this meat-space ecash strategy.

It wasn't that Chaum didn't think about the internet. Far from it. He
invented digital mixes, after all, which became the basis for anonymous
remailers, onion routers, CROWDS, and the like. He just didn't look at
blind signatures from the financial operations point of view and see
digital bearer settlement, that's all. He was thinking privacy, and not
financial operations, just like the Wrights were thinking flight, and not
high-speed transportation.

3. The entire time they held the patent, the Wrights only really wanted to
sell airplanes to governments, because they wanted to sell to a few large
stable customers instead of small entities who would probably go out of
business.

Digicash, to this day, tries to sell to big institutions. Their now mostly
internet-driven digital cash stategy is to create the financial equivalent
of Alfred Nobel's dynamite cartel, where one bank in each country gets an
ecash license, hopefully the largest bank possible. Mark Twain in the US
was a proof of concept, if not an act of desperation on Digicash's part,
but it did lead to exclusive (I bet) country-wide licences with Nomura,
Deutchebank, the Swedish Post office, and others. There was talk at FC98
that Digicash received $1 million a month from Deutchebank just for the
*option* on a Germany-wide license. I think they've now exercised that
option. Frankly, I find this geographic, paint-by-the-nation-state approach
quaint in a world of ubiquitous geodesic internetworks, but there it is,
and it effectively prevents other people from doing anything innovative
with blind signatures in the meantime. Monopolies on information
technologies kind of work that way. Dogs and mangers come to mind, and not
for the first time.

4. The Wrights, when they thought about the transportation business at all,
thought about it in terms of "rides" instead of "trips".

Digicash isn't really looking at the applications of their technology to
anything except its original designed purpose, that is, cash. There are
some leaks around the edges, of course.

Nomura seems to be looking at blind signature digital bearer settlement as
a real-time gross-settlement technology, with some kind of private,
kiretsu-cash idea. Digicash people used to give you a shocked "how did you
know that already" look when you talked to them about the painfully obvious
potential use of blind signatures in the capital markets.

However, I'm certain that Digicash thinks that capital market use of blind
signature digital bearer settlement is a pipedream and that they'd better
focus on the main chance, which is ecash. Preferrably electronic
wallet-based ecash issued by a major bank. In competition with book-entry
settlement, in book-entry settlement's own turf. Go figure.

5. Finally, the only innovation in the American aircraft market in the age
of the Wright patent came from that famous airplane "infringer", Curtis,
who didn't give a damn about patents and built airplanes anyway. Much
better airplanes, in fact, which the Wrights eventually took him to court
for, forcing Curtis to merge with the Wrights. Fortunately, European
evolution in aviation continued apace, giving us the aviation equivalent of
the Pre-Cambrian explosion, culminating in the names we all remember from
World War I like Sopwith, Spad, Dornier, and, of course, Fokker.

The problem is that there's no Curtis to infringe on the blind signature
patent, because you can't hook up to the financial system from the internet
-- land yur plane in other words -- without clear rights to use it. The
banks where you move money on and off the net from would get sued. Unless
they're in places like South Africa, where software patents don't matter,
or Russia, where they're probably uninforceable. Places which have their
own problems, not the least of which is poor internet access, poor
financial network connectivity (something like Cirrus on the back end of a
trustee/custodian would be, um, NYCE :-)), and, not least, poor impulse
control by the local force merchants, monopolistic or otherwise. Tax havens
don't even count. The very definition of a tax haven is someplace with a
bandwidth and regulatory gravity well to keep it safe from any kind of
market efficiency.

A return to some kind of "Europe" for that hoped-for explosion of blind
signature evolution could still be happening on the internet anyway.
Certainly, with smart and tenacious people like Ian Goldberg designing
HINDE and Ryan Lackey bashing on a reference version of it, one could
certainly try to argue this, but there's no money doing this stuff right
now (unless you count first-class upgrades to Anguilla or free nights in
the InterIsland), much less something like the First World War to forge
that innovation into a robust replacement for the book-entry economy.


Which, thinking thinking of robustness, brings me to what I've been doing
the last few days. Pete Loshin, former editor at Byte, former writer of
various excellent how-to books on networking and one of the first surveys
of internet commerce (and one of the founding members of the Digital
Commerce Society of Boston, I might add, :-)), is now editor of Cutter
Publications' "Corporate Internet Strategies" newsletter, which used to be
edited by Ed Yourdon, of American Programmer, Y2K, and much other, fame.

So, when they needed someone on a panel about electronic commerce at
Cutter's "Summit" conference at the Boston Harbor Hotel's Wharf Room
facility this week, someone controversial, they said, Pete said he knew
exactly who to throw into the fray.

It was fun, too. There, in front of a room full of senior IT managers from
big companies and Famous Computer Guys, sitting on a panel on Internet
Commerce, was one of Fidelity's Famous Computer Guys himself, now running
their web technology department. And Pete. And Fidelity's retail
web-marketing guy, and me. Fidelity has 900 billion dollars under
management. 60% of their customer interaction now comes from the web. The
ganglia twitch.

Dropping that $100 billion 1997 internet transaction number, and saying
that it was three orders of magnitude over the estimate didn't faze these
guys. They had seen it happen.

In addition, all of the people with websites I talked to said that they
used SSL to interact with their customers. Almost all of them said that
they used 128 bit encryption. The Mssrs. Fidelity faintly crowed about the
fact. Digital Commerce is Financial Cryptography, so what else is new?

Then, of course, I threw the whole geodesic economy, digital bearer
settlement rant at them, right down to the picomoney as processor food,
micromoney mitochondria bit.

And, of course, they all stood up and threw their dinner rolls at me. It
was great.

That's because I'd been throwing my own dinner rolls, and I'd been been
hinting what I was going to say all week. They even encourage you to heckle
the speakers back with a liberal sprinkling of wireless mikes around the
room.

So every once in a while, I'd pop off with comments like intellectual
property control was impossible, that watermarking only told you who the
code was stolen from not who stole it. Or, why not have cash auctions for
programming deliverables instead of top-down project management, Or,
emergent processes for software were always going to beat "controlled"
processes, Or, passing programmer certification laws in the wake of
whatever Y2K thing happened would be impossible to enforce in a world of
those same anonymous cash settled markets for programming talent. I even
pointed them to the forum-hackers list as proof.

One of my favorite gybes while I was up on the podium to the Fidelity
marketing guy -- who's a nice guy but who's also fighting like crazy right
now to drag Fidelity up the "quality service differentiation" ladder
because Fido can't play least-cost-producer anymore in an eTrade world --
was my claim that eventually most so-called "branded" products would be
reduced to graded fungible commodities, and that the more dependant a
business was on information technology, the faster it would happen to them.

Orthogonality is always more fun than the alternative. And you get lots of
free dinner rolls.

And, of course, after the digital commerce panel and lunch, Ed Yourdon
wrapped it all up with his scary Y2K rant, followed by an appropriately
scary bunch of panelists telling us just how scary all theis Y2K stuff
really was, that Ed had gotten himself on down to Taos, complete with his
own water supply, and that denial was when you lied to yourself and
believed it. Or something.

All of which I now believe more of, just because all these grey-haired
programming aristocrats were nodding sagely about this prospect of
impending doom for us all. Frankly, most of the people who've yammered at
*me* about Y2K were either loons who hoped it would All Fall Down Someday
Soon, or people like Vinnie, who think it's a good idea, if not fun, to
know what to do if it ever does all fall down, but that praying for it
wasn't going to make it so. I'd like to think I'm one of the latter. The
other problem is, I've seen the end of the world coming before. Even
predicted it myself on occasion. Haven't been able to reduce it to
practice, yet, though. That's the reason Gibbon's in my .sig these days.


So, let's get back to Digicash and the Wright Brothers. After hanging out
with a whole bunch of top-down monolithic-system gurus and Y2K folks
yesterday, it seems plausible. And, I'm certain there are lots of people
out there who know lots about both and who hope that Y2K will be the
Chixalub event that will burn off all the database-driven book-entry
dinosaur systems and clear the way for a digital bearer mammalian explosion.

Frankly, I think we're looking at a brushfire, if anything. The lawn will
grow back, but the house won't burn, even if the water does go out for a
bit. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it. Remembering, of course, the
above bit about denial.


But, suppose we *are* talking about the financial equivalent of that great
1970's 30-second short film epic, "Bambi vs. Godzilla", where Bambi is
squashed by a giant green foot (oops, I gave away the plot), and the whole
financial system goes away for a few days. Or a month.

Is there any way to step in with digital bearer settlement as a robust
alternative to book-entry funds transfer? Remember the great bank strike in
Ireland, where everyone just passed around nth-party endorsed checks like
they were money until it was all over? Could we do something like that?
Would David Chaum and company let us do that without suing someone for
infringement? Could they stop us, if the courts are full of Y2K liability
cases? Would the internet still be up? Could we pay our ISPs with digital
bearer certificates to keep them up? How about Iridium and Teledesic, which
are supposed to be up by then?

Once again, ganglia twitch. However, it might be fun to game the idea a
bit, just to scare the neighbors. You know, pay ya all back when the banks
come up?

Well, maybe not. Ed says that the banks, and particularly Wall Street, are
the most prepared of any of us. That makes sense. The half life of
financial software these days is measured in months. For instance, one of
NeXT's biggest markets was in the financial sectors, especially trading
rooms, where any prototype which worked was immediately production code.
They liked NeXT, despite all its other interesting charistics, because you
could do exactly that, and faster than any other development environment.
Of course, if anyone's a poster child for "sell Cadillacs, drive a Chevy,
sell Chevies, drive a Cadillac", it's Steve Jobs. Of course, he sold NeXTs
and got Apples, however that turns out...

Still, it might be worth thinking about, trying to route around the
book-entry financial settlement system as a pre-disaster exercise.

Wright Brothers versus Chixalub, and all that. No, I don't wanna see the
movie...

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga



-----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/

--- end forwarded text



-----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/




----------------------------------------------------------------------
Where people, networks and money come together: Consult Hyperion
http://www.hyperion.co.uk/                   info@hyperion.co.uk
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Full-Strength Cryptographic Solutions for Worldwide Electronic Commerce
http://www.c2.net/                                   stronghold@c2.net
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Like e$? Help pay for it!
For e$/e$pam sponsorship or donations, 
----------------------------------------------------------------------

--- end forwarded text



-----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 13:54:27 -0700 (PDT)
To: lawya@lucs-01.novell.leeds.ac.uk
Subject: Ruling in Payne & Morales v NSA's Minihan
Message-ID: <354A351C.20B8@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Friday 5/1/98 2:15 PM

John Young

Nice to talk to you a few minutes ago.  Even in person!

Judge Santiago Campos ruled in Payne and Morales v NSA 
Minihan. http://jya.com/whpfiles.htm  
http://www.aci.net/kalliste/speccoll.htm

Morales opted to meet and open the ruling even though it is
a week end.  Usually, I NEVER open a lawyer letter on near a 
weekend or a vacation.

But we do file lawsuits on Friday.  That way we get to blast THEM
[Great Satan supporters] on the Infobahn before the court has a 
chance to seal the complaint.  

Mail Boxes Etc. charges only  $.04 per page special copy charge on 
Fridays too V $.07 on other days.  

We, unlike DOE, are mindful of containing litigation costs.

The ruling is 56 pages long!

Morales read me only the first and last pages.

	1  We DID NOT LOSE
	2  NSA did not win
	3  We are not headed for jail

I mailed a priority mail copy to you.

Without Internet NYA, J Orlin Grabbe, and some really neat journalists
the
outcome would have far different, I conjecture.

Have a good weekend everyone [http://www.wpiran.org/].  We are!

We GOT TO GET THIS HORRIBLE MESS SETTLED!

Cowabunga, Yahoo, allahu akbar, etc.
bill and art






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: yq91sa9Up@aol.com
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 14:58:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Master Wealth Builder......
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



 If You Qualify, You Could Net
 Yourself Well Over $150,000
 By The End Of 1998... Guaranteed!

 Greetings:
 My name is Marty. I would like to ask you to please take
 two minutes of you time to read the following. If you
 don't like what you see then please trash this mail and
 accept my apologies for this disturbance. I promise
 you I will not send you another. I am writing to
 introduce you to a strong, wealth building home based
 business that is NOT a Multilevel Marketing venture or
 some get "rich quick scheme"... a business that is more
 profitable than any network marketing, direct sales,
 franchise or investment opportunity in existence today.

 Who Will Be Allowed To Work With Me?

 I am looking for a limited group of serious minded
 entrepreneurs that have been looking for a solid
 business opportunity. I'm not looking for a huge
 response. I only want to work with people I feel have
 a "burning desire" to be successful. Can you visualize
 yourself earning $30,000 + net per month within the
 next year, if provided with the right opportunity to
 do so? Are you willing to commit to doing whatever it
 would take to be successful in this business once you
 completely understand it?

 How To Find Out If You Qualify

 To find out more, call toll free for more details:
  1-800-600-0343 ext.#1399. This is a recorded message
 that is available 24 hours a day. It is NOT a
 telemarketer. I am selecting individuals on a first
 come, first serve basis. If you are seriously
 interested...REPLY NOW! If you don't really feel
 you've got the right stuff to be successful, then
 please don't bother to respond. I only want to work
 with the motivated people who seriously want to make
 insane amounts of money!

 If I have reached you in error, please send mail with
 REMOVE in the subject heading and you will be
 immediately removed from subsequent mailings.

 Prosperous Regards,

 P.S. Once again, this is NOT MLM. Serious inquiries
 only please! You will work 100% from your phone. Age,
 appearance, skills, location, and transportation are
 NOT important! Only desire and commitment are important!

           1-800-600-0343 ext.#1399   DAY OR NIGHT







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Chris Loftus 
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 13:05:53 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: How do I get off this list??
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980501160520.006cd8d0@vmspop.isc.rit.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


There is too mach crap.  how do I get off?




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 13:05:51 -0700 (PDT)
To: John Young 
Subject: Re: Reno reports "suspicion" in industry crypto-negotiations
In-Reply-To: <199805011541.RAA23552@basement.replay.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 13:39 -0400 5/1/98, John Young wrote:
>Weren't some of these stalking drafts nearly liberated recently?
>Or were they only floated for trusted eyes only?

They were floated for TEO: ACP, Hill staffers, and allied groups like CDT
(Alan Davidson from CDT, after a Cato forum yesterday, defended much of the
ACP crypto bill when I asked him about it).

I got a leaked copy. I promised to send around a summary and haven't yet.
Too much time on Y2K and Microsoft. I'll get to it this weekend.

-Declan






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 15:41:42 -0700 (PDT)
To: Chris Loftus 
Subject: Re: How do I get off this list??
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980501160520.006cd8d0@vmspop.isc.rit.edu>
Message-ID: <199805012241.SAA26940@users.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In <3.0.32.19980501160520.006cd8d0@vmspop.isc.rit.edu>, on 05/01/98 
   at 04:05 PM, Chris Loftus  said:

>There is too mach crap.  how do I get off?

Sorry you have failed the requisite IQ test for obtaining the
unsubscription information. 

You are now doomed here forever!!!

Welcome the Purgatory, Hell is on the way.

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgp.html
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: How do you make Windows faster?  Throw it harder!

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3a-sha1
Charset: cp850
Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000

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pP6qbuaPcw6Hc9NYcXNiY9s3EjuHviE2rwF5Vw3+a/swZxOeTIUUg5Fcf2VTvh0R
KR7WUJ+bqxp5no5ribCsl3ADGSVCNv9mwa2GX3269qf1D3hijabRzv3L0aRNVYNp
G6isqgJDuTM=
=Zo9G
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 18:13:45 -0700 (PDT)
To: TruthMonger 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 12:41 PM -0700 5/1/98, TruthMonger wrote:
>CONSTITUTION FOR SALE
>_____________________
>
>1776 Constitution for sale. Inherited from original owner.
>Hasn't been used for years, but can be easily restored to
>its original condition by extermination of the rats which
>have taken up residence under the hood and the removal of
>useless accessories which were added by a long series of
>unethical mechanics who saw the prospect of making more
>money if it continually drifted to the right or the left
>than if the integrity of its original design was retained.
>Truly must be seen to be appreciated.
>Must be appreciated to be truly seen.

Wow! I haven't seen a Real Copy, ever!  I was once a high school field trip
to the National Archives, circa 1968, but our teachers told us the
Constitution was now classified as a subversive document. It had been on
the Index since 1933.

Maybe the extermination of the rats under the hood will be accomplished as
a side effect of the Y2K problem.

We ought to urge our fellow sheeple to have _short trials_ for the millions
of rats we need to exterminate. After all, they can't exactly appeal to the
Supreme Court if the Supremes preceded them to the gallows, can they?

--Tim May


"The tree of liberty must be watered periodically with the blood of
tyrants...."
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist              | black markets, collapse of governments.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 05:47:57 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: db$: The Wright Brothers vs. Chixalub
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Just to fan the flames of Y2K hysteria ever higher...

;-).

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga

--- begin forwarded text


X-Sender: rah@pop.sneaker.net (Unverified)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 17:50:18 -0400
To: e$@vmeng.com
From: Robert Hettinga 
Subject: db$: The Wright Brothers vs. Chixalub
Sender: 
Precedence: Bulk
List-Subscribe: 


--- begin forwarded text


X-Sender: rah@pop.sneaker.net (Unverified)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 15:26:30 -0400
To: Digital Bearer Settlement List 
From: Robert Hettinga 
Subject: db$: The Wright Brothers vs. Chixalub
Sender: 
Precedence: Bulk
List-Subscribe: 
X-Web-Archive: http://www.philodox.com/dbs-archive/

You might notice that the tag on this one says "db$". That's to
differentiate it from my "e$" rants, which might be more general than ones
like this one, which is on digital bearer settlement. I think there is lots
of talk about electronic commerce and e$ these days from whole bunches of
people, and, as a consequence, my interest in it has focused more onto the
issue of digital bearer settlement.  You'll probably be seeing more db$
tags than e$ tags on my rants going forward.

All of which brings me to some obversations I've been making in public
about blind signatures lately, and the excellent time I had at Ed Yeardon's
Cutter Consortium "Summit" conference the past few days.


Let's start with yet another aviation analogy about Digicash, shall we? :-).

Remember, I like to do that.

Once I compared privacy to flight, and said that, like flight, lots of
people had died getting strong cryptography to work, and that privacy
itself was an inherent good. The thing which actually got people to use the
technology, however, was its commercial value. It wasn't the joy of flight
or slipping the surly bounds of earth at Kitty Hawk that got people into
the air, it was coach fare to Dayton. It was digital commerce, and thus
financial cryptography, which created the most privacy. Digital Commerce is
financial cryptography, financial cryptography is strong cryptography, and
all that.

Then there's my analogy of book-entry settlement as Boyle's law (partial
pressure of gasses?) and strong crypto, particularly digital bearer
settlement, as Bernoulli's law, the law describing aerodynamic lift.
Essentially you can think of cryptography and bearer settlement as wings,
and book entries as, well, bags of gas. :-).

Thinking this way, with commerce on the internet as flight, First Virtual
becomes a tethered baloon. Encrypting your First Virtual transaction makes
it an aerodynamic barrage balloon. Encrypting a credit card in an SSL
web-form is flying around on a Zeppelin. And, David Chaum becomes the
Wright Brothers for inventing the airplane. I used to say "Or maybe Otto
Lillenthal" under my breath to get a laugh, but now, I know exactly why
David Chaum is the Wright Brothers.

That's because Digicash *is* The Wright Flying Machine Company, or whatever
the Wright's subsequent enterprise was called. It seems to me that
Digicash's strategy with the blind signature is a dead ringer for the
Wright Brothers' control of the airplane patent. Here's why:


1. In the beginning, nobody believed that the Wright brothers could fly,
and they had to take the airplane to Paris and demonstrate it there before
anyone in the US thought it was true.

Digicash did the same thing. Actually, the NSA created a positively hostile
environment here in the USA for cryptography, financial or otherwise, and
that forced David Chaum to go to the Netherlands, where there was a more
positive reception for his work.

2. Then, nobody could think about what you could do with airplanes, and the
Wrights foundered for a bit..

Same thing with Chaum, Digicash, and the blind signature patent. The
commercial internet didn't exist yet in 1986, and blind signatures were
conceived as useful only in smartcards, which were just being experimented
with. Digicash was going to be used in physical electronic wallets, and
maybe in transponders at the gates of toll roads. The CAFE project was an
example of this meat-space ecash strategy.

It wasn't that Chaum didn't think about the internet. Far from it. He
invented digital mixes, after all, which became the basis for anonymous
remailers, onion routers, CROWDS, and the like. He just didn't look at
blind signatures from the financial operations point of view and see
digital bearer settlement, that's all. He was thinking privacy, and not
financial operations, just like the Wrights were thinking flight, and not
high-speed transportation.

3. The entire time they held the patent, the Wrights only really wanted to
sell airplanes to governments, because they wanted to sell to a few large
stable customers instead of small entities who would probably go out of
business.

Digicash, to this day, tries to sell to big institutions. Their now mostly
internet-driven digital cash stategy is to create the financial equivalent
of Alfred Nobel's dynamite cartel, where one bank in each country gets an
ecash license, hopefully the largest bank possible. Mark Twain in the US
was a proof of concept, if not an act of desperation on Digicash's part,
but it did lead to exclusive (I bet) country-wide licences with Nomura,
Deutchebank, the Swedish Post office, and others. There was talk at FC98
that Digicash received $1 million a month from Deutchebank just for the
*option* on a Germany-wide license. I think they've now exercised that
option. Frankly, I find this geographic, paint-by-the-nation-state approach
quaint in a world of ubiquitous geodesic internetworks, but there it is,
and it effectively prevents other people from doing anything innovative
with blind signatures in the meantime. Monopolies on information
technologies kind of work that way. Dogs and mangers come to mind, and not
for the first time.

4. The Wrights, when they thought about the transportation business at all,
thought about it in terms of "rides" instead of "trips".

Digicash isn't really looking at the applications of their technology to
anything except its original designed purpose, that is, cash. There are
some leaks around the edges, of course.

Nomura seems to be looking at blind signature digital bearer settlement as
a real-time gross-settlement technology, with some kind of private,
kiretsu-cash idea. Digicash people used to give you a shocked "how did you
know that already" look when you talked to them about the painfully obvious
potential use of blind signatures in the capital markets.

However, I'm certain that Digicash thinks that capital market use of blind
signature digital bearer settlement is a pipedream and that they'd better
focus on the main chance, which is ecash. Preferrably electronic
wallet-based ecash issued by a major bank. In competition with book-entry
settlement, in book-entry settlement's own turf. Go figure.

5. Finally, the only innovation in the American aircraft market in the age
of the Wright patent came from that famous airplane "infringer", Curtis,
who didn't give a damn about patents and built airplanes anyway. Much
better airplanes, in fact, which the Wrights eventually took him to court
for, forcing Curtis to merge with the Wrights. Fortunately, European
evolution in aviation continued apace, giving us the aviation equivalent of
the Pre-Cambrian explosion, culminating in the names we all remember from
World War I like Sopwith, Spad, Dornier, and, of course, Fokker.

The problem is that there's no Curtis to infringe on the blind signature
patent, because you can't hook up to the financial system from the internet
-- land yur plane in other words -- without clear rights to use it. The
banks where you move money on and off the net from would get sued. Unless
they're in places like South Africa, where software patents don't matter,
or Russia, where they're probably uninforceable. Places which have their
own problems, not the least of which is poor internet access, poor
financial network connectivity (something like Cirrus on the back end of a
trustee/custodian would be, um, NYCE :-)), and, not least, poor impulse
control by the local force merchants, monopolistic or otherwise. Tax havens
don't even count. The very definition of a tax haven is someplace with a
bandwidth and regulatory gravity well to keep it safe from any kind of
market efficiency.

A return to some kind of "Europe" for that hoped-for explosion of blind
signature evolution could still be happening on the internet anyway.
Certainly, with smart and tenacious people like Ian Goldberg designing
HINDE and Ryan Lackey bashing on a reference version of it, one could
certainly try to argue this, but there's no money doing this stuff right
now (unless you count first-class upgrades to Anguilla or free nights in
the InterIsland), much less something like the First World War to forge
that innovation into a robust replacement for the book-entry economy.


Which, thinking thinking of robustness, brings me to what I've been doing
the last few days. Pete Loshin, former editor at Byte, former writer of
various excellent how-to books on networking and one of the first surveys
of internet commerce (and one of the founding members of the Digital
Commerce Society of Boston, I might add, :-)), is now editor of Cutter
Publications' "Corporate Internet Strategies" newsletter, which used to be
edited by Ed Yourdon, of American Programmer, Y2K, and much other, fame.

So, when they needed someone on a panel about electronic commerce at
Cutter's "Summit" conference at the Boston Harbor Hotel's Wharf Room
facility this week, someone controversial, they said, Pete said he knew
exactly who to throw into the fray.

It was fun, too. There, in front of a room full of senior IT managers from
big companies and Famous Computer Guys, sitting on a panel on Internet
Commerce, was one of Fidelity's Famous Computer Guys himself, now running
their web technology department. And Pete. And Fidelity's retail
web-marketing guy, and me. Fidelity has 900 billion dollars under
management. 60% of their customer interaction now comes from the web. The
ganglia twitch.

Dropping that $100 billion 1997 internet transaction number, and saying
that it was three orders of magnitude over the estimate didn't faze these
guys. They had seen it happen.

In addition, all of the people with websites I talked to said that they
used SSL to interact with their customers. Almost all of them said that
they used 128 bit encryption. The Mssrs. Fidelity faintly crowed about the
fact. Digital Commerce is Financial Cryptography, so what else is new?

Then, of course, I threw the whole geodesic economy, digital bearer
settlement rant at them, right down to the picomoney as processor food,
micromoney mitochondria bit.

And, of course, they all stood up and threw their dinner rolls at me. It
was great.

That's because I'd been throwing my own dinner rolls, and I'd been been
hinting what I was going to say all week. They even encourage you to heckle
the speakers back with a liberal sprinkling of wireless mikes around the
room.

So every once in a while, I'd pop off with comments like intellectual
property control was impossible, that watermarking only told you who the
code was stolen from not who stole it. Or, why not have cash auctions for
programming deliverables instead of top-down project management, Or,
emergent processes for software were always going to beat "controlled"
processes, Or, passing programmer certification laws in the wake of
whatever Y2K thing happened would be impossible to enforce in a world of
those same anonymous cash settled markets for programming talent. I even
pointed them to the forum-hackers list as proof.

One of my favorite gybes while I was up on the podium to the Fidelity
marketing guy -- who's a nice guy but who's also fighting like crazy right
now to drag Fidelity up the "quality service differentiation" ladder
because Fido can't play least-cost-producer anymore in an eTrade world --
was my claim that eventually most so-called "branded" products would be
reduced to graded fungible commodities, and that the more dependant a
business was on information technology, the faster it would happen to them.

Orthogonality is always more fun than the alternative. And you get lots of
free dinner rolls.

And, of course, after the digital commerce panel and lunch, Ed Yourdon
wrapped it all up with his scary Y2K rant, followed by an appropriately
scary bunch of panelists telling us just how scary all theis Y2K stuff
really was, that Ed had gotten himself on down to Taos, complete with his
own water supply, and that denial was when you lied to yourself and
believed it. Or something.

All of which I now believe more of, just because all these grey-haired
programming aristocrats were nodding sagely about this prospect of
impending doom for us all. Frankly, most of the people who've yammered at
*me* about Y2K were either loons who hoped it would All Fall Down Someday
Soon, or people like Vinnie, who think it's a good idea, if not fun, to
know what to do if it ever does all fall down, but that praying for it
wasn't going to make it so. I'd like to think I'm one of the latter. The
other problem is, I've seen the end of the world coming before. Even
predicted it myself on occasion. Haven't been able to reduce it to
practice, yet, though. That's the reason Gibbon's in my .sig these days.


So, let's get back to Digicash and the Wright Brothers. After hanging out
with a whole bunch of top-down monolithic-system gurus and Y2K folks
yesterday, it seems plausible. And, I'm certain there are lots of people
out there who know lots about both and who hope that Y2K will be the
Chixalub event that will burn off all the database-driven book-entry
dinosaur systems and clear the way for a digital bearer mammalian explosion.

Frankly, I think we're looking at a brushfire, if anything. The lawn will
grow back, but the house won't burn, even if the water does go out for a
bit. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it. Remembering, of course, the
above bit about denial.


But, suppose we *are* talking about the financial equivalent of that great
1970's 30-second short film epic, "Bambi vs. Godzilla", where Bambi is
squashed by a giant green foot (oops, I gave away the plot), and the whole
financial system goes away for a few days. Or a month.

Is there any way to step in with digital bearer settlement as a robust
alternative to book-entry funds transfer? Remember the great bank strike in
Ireland, where everyone just passed around nth-party endorsed checks like
they were money until it was all over? Could we do something like that?
Would David Chaum and company let us do that without suing someone for
infringement? Could they stop us, if the courts are full of Y2K liability
cases? Would the internet still be up? Could we pay our ISPs with digital
bearer certificates to keep them up? How about Iridium and Teledesic, which
are supposed to be up by then?

Once again, ganglia twitch. However, it might be fun to game the idea a
bit, just to scare the neighbors. You know, pay ya all back when the banks
come up?

Well, maybe not. Ed says that the banks, and particularly Wall Street, are
the most prepared of any of us. That makes sense. The half life of
financial software these days is measured in months. For instance, one of
NeXT's biggest markets was in the financial sectors, especially trading
rooms, where any prototype which worked was immediately production code.
They liked NeXT, despite all its other interesting charistics, because you
could do exactly that, and faster than any other development environment.
Of course, if anyone's a poster child for "sell Cadillacs, drive a Chevy,
sell Chevies, drive a Cadillac", it's Steve Jobs. Of course, he sold NeXTs
and got Apples, however that turns out...

Still, it might be worth thinking about, trying to route around the
book-entry financial settlement system as a pre-disaster exercise.

Wright Brothers versus Chixalub, and all that. No, I don't wanna see the
movie...

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga



-----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/

--- end forwarded text



-----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/




----------------------------------------------------------------------
Where people, networks and money come together: Consult Hyperion
http://www.hyperion.co.uk/                   info@hyperion.co.uk
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Full-Strength Cryptographic Solutions for Worldwide Electronic Commerce
http://www.c2.net/                                   stronghold@c2.net
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Like e$? Help pay for it!
For e$/e$pam sponsorship or donations, 
----------------------------------------------------------------------

--- end forwarded text



-----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: special@teacup.wbvs.com
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 22:03:53 -0700 (PDT)
To: special@teacup.wbvs.com
Subject: RON JEREMY UNPLUGGED!!!
Message-ID: <199805021349.GAA23554@TEACUP.WBVS.COM>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
If you wish to be removed from future mailings, please reply with the subject
 "Remove" and this software will automatically block you from our future mailings.
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: moneytime@aol.com
Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 05:43:06 -0700 (PDT)
To: millerseld@aol.com
Subject: Make Money Working From Home
Message-ID: <2145871454578>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


==========================================================
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===========================================================

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: arse69@webtv.net (fine asses)
Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 04:05:33 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: hello
Message-ID: <199805031105.EAA05339@mailtod-161.iap.bryant.webtv.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


::

Request-Remailing-To: arse69@webtv.net

test




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: cioqoaha30@sprynet.com (:-])
Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 07:24:14 -0700 (PDT)
To: cioqoaha30@sprynet.com
Subject: ALERT - Internet Fraud and Spying
Message-ID: <199805034331SAA25713@post.westex.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain






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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: tnelson222@mci2000.com
Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 22:29:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Earn $100 every time OUR phone rings....
Message-ID: <199805040528.WAA22430@cygint.cygnus.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


ALL YOU DO IS ADVERTISE OUR 800 NUMBER! THAT'S ALL!! 

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Every aspect of selling or talking to someone is done completely by the company.  

I DO NOT TOUCH THE TELEPHONE AND NEITHER WOULD YOU! 

First, Our Promise To You:
1) NO Selling!
2) NO Talking or Personal Contact with others, on the phone or in person!
3) NO Mandatory mailing of postcards, products or information to prospects!
4) NO Prospecting or Cold Calling of any kind!

ALL OF THIS IS DONE BY THE COMPANY!!!

WHAT THIS BUSINESS WILL DO FOR YOU:

* Handles all your calls, closes your sales, and 
  sends you WEEKLY commission checks! 

* It pays you a $100 commission (that's over 50% of the total sale)
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Call one of the 24hr TESTIMONIAL lines at 888-703-5389, 888-446-6949 or 888-731-3457 
(all toll free). 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 23:50:43 -0700 (PDT)
To: David Honig 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980503230738.009147c0@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 09:04 AM 4/29/98 -0700, David Honig wrote:
>Why does the Navy research onion routing?
>
>Only reason I can think of is so that .mil can 
>study other sites anonymously, or communicate
>amongst themselves using anonymous-routing-tech
>to avoid traffic analysis.
>
>The other practical possibility is that they're happy
>to have smart CS people and will fund whatever they
>want to do, just to keep them.

There is some of the latter involved, but the military
does have times they'd like to check out web pages
without traffic analysis, just as they'd like
to be order lots of pizza without folks figuring out
that they're up to something.  This includes several cases -
using the public or civilian-government internet,
and also using their own intranets which may be less
than totally secure.
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Gilmore 
Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 23:21:11 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks
Subject: Bills in Congress containing "encrypt"...
Message-ID: <199805040621.XAA20536@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I found a few interesting ones.

S. 1023

Making appropriations for the Treasury Department, the United States
Postal Service, the Executive Office of the President, and certain
Independent Agencies...

	$3,000,000 shall be available to the Financial Crimes Enforcement
       Network, including $2,000,000 for the money laundering threat initiative
       and $1,000,000 for the Secure Outreach/Encrypted Transmission Program;

	$7,800,000 for automated license plate readers,

[The above bill seems to have evolved into the following, which was
passed by the House and Senate and awaits the President's signature.]

H.R.2378 
Making appropriations for the Treasury Department, the United States
Postal Service, the Executive Office of the President, and certain
Independent Agencies, for the fiscal year ending September 30, 1998,

	$1,000,000 shall be available
       to the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network for the Secure
       Outreach/Encrypted Transmission Program; 

	...to the United States Secret Service, including ...
       $1,460,000 to provide technical assistance and to
       assess the effectiveness of new technology intended to combat
       identity-based crimes, 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 07:01:06 -0700 (PDT)
To: inter@technologist.com
Subject: Periods of sequences
Message-ID: <354DC8CA.5D34@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Monday 5/4/98 7:22 AM

chambers,

Your statement

  The advantages are a lack of mathematical structure which might
provide an entry for the  
  cryptanalyst, and a huge choice of possibilities; the disadvantages
are that there are no    
  guarantees on anything, and as is well known there is a risk of
getting a very short  period. 

made at http://www.jya.com/a5-hack.htm#wgc stuck me as profound.

Reason is that NSA cryptomathematician Scott Judy once told me that I
did not really
understand the principles NSA uses for its crypto algorithm.

Judy proceeded to explain to me that NSA bases its crypto algorithm on
complication,
not mathematics.

Judy apparently did not realize that some years previous NSA employee
Brian Snow showed
us about all of NSA's KG schematics.  And their field failure records!

Masanori Fushimi in Random number generation with the recursion x[t] =
x[x-3q]+
x[t-3q],Journal of Applied Mathematics 31 (1990) 105-118 implements a
gfsr
with period 2^521 - l. http://av.yahoo.com/bin/query?p=gfsr&hc=0&hs=0

Fushimi's generator is sold by Visual Numerics.

Fushimi's implementation is very well tested.  And worked SO WELL that
Visual
Numerics numerical analyst Richard Hanson had TO BREAK IT!

Reason was that the gfsr produces true zeros.  This caused simulation
programs
to crash from division by zero.

None of the linear congruential generators produced zeros so the problem
did
not arise until the gfsr was used.

Hanson ORed in a low-order 1 to fix the problem

Masanori wrote,

  Lewis and Payne [16] introduced an apparely different type of
generator,
  the generalized feed back shift register (GFSR), by which numbers are
formed by 
  phase-shifted elements along a M-sequence based on a primitive
trinomial 1 +
  z^q + z^p.

Lewis was one of my former ms and phd students.
http://www.friction-free-economy.com/

Cycle lengths of sequences is a fascinating topic.

Let me point you guys to a delightful article on the distribution of
terminal digits of transcendental numbers.

  The Mountains of pi by Richard Preston, v68 The New Yorker,
  March 2, 1992 p 36(21).

This is a story about Russian-born mathematicians Gregory and
David Chudnowsky.

While the story is fun to read, I think that the Chudnowsky's were
wasting their time.

I think that terminal digits of transcendental numbers have been
proved to be uniformly distributed.

    Sobolewski, J. S., and W. H. Payne, Pseudonoise with
    Arbitrary Amplitude Distribution:  Part I:  Theory,
    IEEE Transactions On Computers, 21 (1972): 337-345. 
                   
    Sobolewski, J. S., and W. H. Payne, Pseudonoise with
    Arbitrary Amplitude Distribution:  Park II:  Hardware
    Implementation, IEEE Transactions on Computers, 21
    (1972): 346-352. 

Sobolewski is another of my former phd students.

Hopefully you guys will read judge Santiago Campos' 56 page 
MEMORANDUM OPINION AND ORDER on the Payne and Morales lawsuit 
on jya.com within several days.

I made a copy and gave it to Sobolewski on Sunday afternoon.

I want Sobolewski's opinion on what Morales and I should do.

Soblewski lives about two miles from us.

Sobloweski is an administrator [vp of computing at university
of new mexico] and knows how administrators think.

Let's hope this UNFORTUNATE mess involving shift register sequences
gets settled.

But let's not forget our sense of humors despite the about .5 million
dead Iranians.  

Hopefully the system will take care of the guys that did that did the
Iranians.

Masanori wrote,

  The GFSR sequence as well as the Tausworthe sequence can be
  constructed using any M-sequence whether the characteristic polynomial
  is trinomial or not;...

Jim Durham, my seismic data authenticator project leader, retired from
Sandia.

Durham gave me a number of tech reports upon his retirement.

One was authored by Robert TITSWORTHE of jpl.

TITSWORTHE changed his name!

Later
guys






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: TruthMonger 
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 10:53:08 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Epic Log - SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS!!!
Message-ID: <354DFE20.531F@algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Epic Log Rolling - SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS!!!
________________________________________________

Dimitry, cleverly trying to distract me from my plan to....
(Damn! It worked...) wrote:

That was your best one yet, my friend.  Well done.  Do you invent as you 
type 
or do you prepare first?  Do you dream the ideas in progress or 
summarize a 
day of dreaming all at once? 

  After being diagnosed with Tourette Syndrome and ADHD, it took 
me somewhere between 6-18 months to get around to seeing a doctor
in regard to treatment. So I guess you could say that 'plans' and
'preparation' are not my strong point.
  A year or so ago I unexplicably began to write a work called,
'Soul Chaser.' I had absolutely no idea what it was about or
where it was going, and it drove me crazy waiting for each 
chapter to 'appear' so that I could find out what was going
to happen. 

  While 'The True Story of the InterNet' manuscripts are created
with a purpose in mind, they tend to form themselves out of a 
mountain of notes jotted to myself in regard to the types of things
that force their way into one's mind while lying sleepless at 4 a.m.
  An integral part of the manuscripts is the insertion of details
or concepts which are sent to me for inclusion by a variety of 
shadowy characters, some of whom I am somewhat familiar with, and
some who remain a total mystery to me. An example would be the
references to Mule Shoe, Texas as the location of one of the 
underground Reptilian Nazi bunkers (along with LizardMoor and
Lost Alamo).
 I added Mule Shoe to the list as a result of a mystery request
and have no idea what is being inferred, but a number of CoE
initiates have reported that they have observed a great deal of
concern among certain government organizations about the possible
compromise of some mysterious project, or somesuch. As a matter
of fact, a few thanked me profusely for the 'pointer' even though 
they gave me no indication as to what they have uncovered.


Granted I've not seen anything relevant to cryptography yet, but I'm not 
about 
to complain. 

  Cryptography = Privacy = Rights = Freedom = Ad Infinitum

   Once the possibilty of extinction of all life from the face
of the earth by Nuclear Technology became a *REALITY*, then
the scope of many formerly local/regional/national issues and
interests became considerably wider/larger.
  Now that the possibility of extinction of all privacy from 
the face of the earth by Digital Technology (Can you say
'ECHELON'? Sure you can...) has become a *REALITY*, the scope
of many local/global issues and interests have acquired a
level of meaning which goes far beyond the particular sphere
in which they currently are being debated/instituted.
  We have recently seen how local pornography laws in the 
Deep South can affect˙ the lives of people living locally in
California and globally in CyberSpace. We are currently moving
toward the same issues and concepts applying internationally.

  What about the reporter who is currently facing imprisonment
for investigating the Truth in regard to child pornography on
the InterNet, instead of accepting at face value the 'handouts'
from the Privacy Pirates? Anyone who fails to see implications
for freedom, privacy and cryptography needs to spend a little
less time watching 'Gilligan's Island'.

  I may soon be facing the same situation in Canada, with the
main difference being that the 'Bienfait Nutly News' doesn't
carry the same type of clout as the organizations considered
by people wearing suits as members of the 'legitimate press'.
  When I protected all files that I didn't want to fall into
the possession of the Royal (pain in the ass) Canadian (beaver,
hee...hee) Mounted (on the citizen's behind) Police (gestapo),
I made a point of leaving on my hard drive, among other things,
a 'pornography file' which I sent to the CypherPunks list, the
WhiteHouse, etc., with the announcement that I was purposely
distributing vile, filthy pornography that was an affront to
every decent person on the face of the earth.
  Anyone who took the trouble to break the encrypted file
would have found that it was a classic Greek(?) statue of
a young boy, with his  PENIS exposed for God
and everybody to see. I truly believe that my digital 
transmission of this classic work of art makes me, under 
current law, a child pornographer, even though the only way
for anyone to view it would be to crack the encryption on
the file.
(Thus far, God has not contacted me to express having a
 problem with my actions, but I suspect that those who
 have taken it upon themselves to express the opinions
 of 'everybody' will soon be in contact.)


Thanks for the entertainment. 
 
 'Entertainment' is the *Medium*, not the *Message*, of 'The
True Story of the InterNet' manuscripts.
  It is a Medium which has lessened, though not removed, the
consequences which go hand-in-hand with the dissemination of
Truths which meet the high standards expressed by a line in 
a movie..."You can't *HANDLE* the Truth!"

  Jim Bell was taken down a few hours after I had sent him a
copy of a TSotI chapter describing 'Assassination Politics',
and asking his opinion on certain things. (The *only* time
I have ever done this.)
  I took the Jim Bell events to be a clear message that the
rules had changed in regard to the dissemination of the TSXotI
manuscripts. I did not regard the chapter as 'entertainment'.
 (I fully recognize the possibility that I may be wrong or
 'overreacting' to the synchronicity of the two events, but,
 on the other hand, I have the perspective of having observed
 this type of 'synchronocity' since 1989, and have had my
 sorry ass 'saved' by my 'unreasonable paranoia' many times
 since then.)

  I left home two weeks before gomez was cut loose from a 
company he had founded, after seventeen years, in order to 
arrive the day before he, himself, received the 'news'.
  I received the information regarding his elimination from 
the CoE equation via a source who still remains a mystery to
me after almost a decade of cross-communication.
  I gave the situation only the briefest of mentions in the
TSotI manuscripts, because CoE initiates would have no problem
with immediately recognizing the import of the event.
  I did not consider that chapter to be 'entertainment'.

  Many initiates of the Circle of Eunuchs have recently 'gone 
to ground', in order to work unobserved in a manner which they
feel they can be most effective. Other CoE initiates have 
stepped forward to accentuate the policies and actions that
they have been involved in more surrupticiously until now,
even though it may well expose them to retribution, because
they feel that that is how they can be most effective.
  I have given brief mention to some of the results of the
directions some of these CoE initiates have taken in various
chapters of the TSotI manuscripts, and I do not consider 
these chapters 'entertainment'.

  I recently received information in regard to the intentions
of the Beaver Bullys to slap their tails down on my sorry butt,
and had the option of heading for sandier pastures (Tucson), or
covering my ass as much as possible and saying, "Damn the 
torpedos, full Speed, Ritalin and Prozac ahead!"
  I chose to do the latter, and have written a bit about it
in the TSotI manuscripts. I *do* consider those chapters to
be (my) 'entertainment', because 'picking guitar while Rome
burns' is the only dance there is...

  Maybe I'm crazy (maybe?...hee, hee), but if I had the 
opportunity to travel back in time and *become* Lee Harvey
Oswald, I would do so. Can you imagine actually *knowing*
the Truth behind what most of us can only specualate about,
even though the events surrounding his role/non-role in the
assassination of JFK are of monumental import to our times
and the *REAL* history of our globe?

  I have no idea whether or not the Oppressors who have
'legally stolen' my computers will be foolish enough to
attempt to take me down within the boundaries of the
current legal system, but I can guarantee that, if they
do, myself and others will learn more about what is truly
going on in the background of 'currently perceived reality'
than Lee Harvey Oswald ever dreamed of knowing.
  There are 'tricks and traps' embedded in the information 
that I *ALLOWED* the Oppressors to confiscate that are the
result of almost a decade of preparation. Anyone who thinks
I am 'blowing smoke' failed to read and understand the portion
of 'WebWorld & the Mythical Circle of Eunuchs' which detailed
the concept of "Winner's Bluff."
  "TV IS REAL!" (And so is 'Uncle Bubba'...)

Thought For The Day:
  Which 'side' do you, personally, take in regard to the debate
as to whether there is, or is not, a Grand Conspiracy taking
place in the BackGround Of Reality?

  The fact of the matter is, it doesn't really matter.
  The existence or non-existence of the Grand Conspiracy is
of no more importance than the existence or non-existence
of the Circle of Eunuchs.

Definition of Reality:
  "If you can put it in the bank, it's Real!"
~ Stuart Wilde (misquote)

'Theory of Black Holes' Versus 'Infield Fly Rule':
  If some scientific genius proves the invalidity of Einstien's
theories, then can we expect the victims of Hiroshima and
Nagasaki to spring back to life?
  If everyone on the face of the earth, except for baseball
umpires, agree to invalidate the Infield Fly Rule, does it
really matter?

  Are the 'True Story of the InterNet' manuscripts 'entertainment'?
  Sure. "His login is PANIC, His password is CRASH, When Time is
of Essence, He'll Rise from the Ash" was just a 'lucky guess' as
to the true importance of the recently acknowledged problem which
is presented by the Millennium Bug.

  Claire Wolfe's statement that there is an "Angel" hidden
deep within the bowels of the IRS computer system was just
a 'lucky guess'.

  The evolutionary march of computer technology along the
paths predicted by the CypherPunks over the years has been
just a long series of 'lucky guesses' resulting from the
random output of keyboards taking direct hits during the
CypherPunks' legendary pissing contests.

  Dimitri Vulis' exposure of John Gilmore as a 'cocksucker'
was just a 'lucky guess'.

  The ASCII Art spams revealing that Timmy C. Mayonnaise
is the result of early 'Turd Cloning' experiments was just
a 'lucky guess'.

  The suspicion slowly rising from the back of your mind to
flip the switch which turns on the light of realization 
that the insanity of 'The True Story of the InterNet' 
manuscripts are purposely opaque misdirections of their
true purpose, which is to raise the possibility that Kent
Crispin, and even you, yourself, may actually be one of
US, instead of one of THEM, is just a 'lucky guess'.
  Giorgio Ivanovitch Gurdjieff posited that humans cannot
'consciously' do evil. I concurr...

 Is there a method to my madness, or a madness to my method?

Hint: I AM the Biosemiotic Evolutionary Equivalent (TM) of
Lee Harvey Fucking Oswald.

  I AM not just 'predicting' the future, I AM 'creating'
the future.
  The CypherPunks are not just 'predicting' the future,
they are 'creating' the future.
  Louis !B Freeh is !just 'creating' the future, he is
desperately attempting to prevent Jane and Joe Netizen from
doing the same.

NEWS FLASH!!!
-------------
  The AI/Biometrics experts at LizardMoor, Lost Alamo and 
Mule Shoe are sucking hind-tit to those who have approached
Biosemiotic Evolution from the human side of the equation.

  Vice-Admiral D'Shauneaux, during our intial confrontation,
expressed concern that I was unaware of the importance to
humankind that the 'Secret War' taking place in the Background
of History be 'won' by those who were working in the best
interests of humanity and democracy. 
  My reply to him was that, given the human condition, it was
imperative that the Forces of Light never triumph over the
Forces of Darkness, for the simple reason that it has always
been a truism that 'Power corrupts, and Absolute Power corrupts
absolutely'. (Lucifer used to be an Angel!)
  Would you rather be slain by a Moslem saint or a Christian
saint, upholding their perception of 'righteousness'?

  Is ECHELON an abomination?
  Yes, if it remains unopposed.

  I have no doubt that ECHELON has resulted in the negation of
a plethora of evils which had the potential to result in a great
amount of devastation to both the physical and the spiritual
conditions of the human equation.
  I also have no doubt that ECHELON at some point reached a
point of competence and control that allowed those involved in
'protecting' us to get sidetracked into a plethora of issues
and directions which refelected personal, in-house political
agendas, rather than the interests of Truth, Justice, Democracy,
and An Honorable Concept To Be Corrupted Later.

When You're Up To Your Ass In Alligators, It's Hard To
Remember That Your Original Objective Was To Drain The 
Swamp:
  True...  But when you're up to your ass in EunuchIzens, 
your 'ass is grass' if you don't get back to your 'original 
objective'.


  The nonsensical paranoid diatribes warning against the
dire threat posed by Gomez and the Dark Allies in the
TSotI manuscripts are not 'entertainment', any more
than the C2Net Conspiracy Theory that was presented to
those with 'ears to hear' during the legendary CypherPunks
Moderation Experiment / Censorship Crisis.
  Assuming that Sameer's lips are not wrapped around Uncle
Sam's cock, C2Net reflects the epitome of CypherPunks goals
to promote the spread of strong cryptography around the
globe in order to provide access for the citizens to 
secure private communications. Nonetheless. the involvement
of a C2Net employee in the attempt to 'damage' the CPUNX
list made one of US (TM) a greater threat to CypherPunk 
ideals than the actions or intentions of THEM (TM).

  I have absolutely no problem with Mr. & Ms. ECHELON doing
whatever they honestly feel is necessary to protect and
defend the globe from what is patently evil, but I have
absolutely no interest in them achieving such a privileged,
comfortable position in the 'Secret War' that they have
enough time on their hands to throw a cold, hard one up 
the butt of anyone who offends them personally by calling
them a 'cocksucker', no matter whether the offender's 
name ends with an 'i' or a 'y'.


Orange Sunshine Is The Best Disinfectant (Judge Cherry Brandy):
  Tim May was astute enough to recognize that the absence
of ignorant, statist morons such as Kent Crispin on the
CypherPunks list is a detriment, since the positions he
took on various issues were usually the result of careful
deliberation, even though he usually had his head up his
ass. A forum in which everyone agrees with Chomsky is of
no greater benefit to human evolution than a forum where
everyone agrees with Freeh.
  I am astute enough to realize that without the presence
of Willam Geiger III on the CypherPunks list, to slap
Eric Cordian silly for whining about life 'forcing' him
to be a Sheeple, that I would feel like a lone fool for
occassionally admitting to being as big an idiot as the
Sheeple that I rail against in my self-righteous diatribes.
  You are astute enough to realize that even without the 
verifiable presence of Toto in the Authorship of this
chapter, given the fact that the manuscripts have always
been a shared/distributed project, not to mention the
fact that the toto@sk.sympatico.ca account is the Grand
Central Station of CyberSpace, it is still incumbent on
you to immediately report to the proper authorities my
online confession to having murdered a variety of law
enforcement agents and buried them in my garden plot in
Bienfait. (But, if anybody asks, I was with *you* when
JFK was assassinated, OK?)


  Ten a.m., time for 'River's Edge' on Fox TV.
  I'll need both hands free, to crack beers and take
notes.

Smoke 'em if you love 'em...






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: TruthMonger 
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 10:53:13 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Happy Log - SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS!!!
Message-ID: <354E00B9.15F3@algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Happy Log - SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS!!!
_________________________________________

  Watching 'River's Edge', I remembered why I prefer to remain
holed up alone in the BeachBoys' room while Slurping the Dregs
with a channel-changer in my hand.
  It seems that 'River's Edge' wasn't that movie about Paul
Newman being a logger--apparently that was 'Sometimes A Great
Notion.' Neither was it the John Holmes movie where he plays
Johnny Logg, 'Sometimes A Great Motion.'
  No, it turned out to be the movie that Dennis Hopper made
his comeback in, years after it was socially acceptable to
openly cheer the social outcasts in 'Easy Rider' or 'Rebel
Without A Cause'. Having neither social skills nor self-
contol, I cannot refrain from laughing or cheering not just 
in the 'wrong' places, but also in the 'worst' places...

  I can relate to Dennis Hopper's character, Feck, when the
head murderer in the movie asks him if he's some kind of
psycho, since he dances and talks with a life-size sex doll.
Feck replies, "I'm not *crazy*, man. I *know* it's a *doll*!"
  But knowing it doesn't stop him from...caring.

  I *know* I'm not supposed to hoot, cheer and laugh when
Feck tells the 'bad' kid, who murdered his girlfriend, even
though he didn't love her, about being justified in blowing
the brains out of his own girlfriend, because he 'loved' her,
and how he was being hunted and persecuted by a society that
didn't understand that his 'apology' was 'sincere', since he
really did love her, and about the 'unfairness' of Them still
wanting to *punish* him.
  I *know* that I'm supposed to act horrified at this sick,
demented bastard's outlook on life.
  But knowing it doesn't stop me from...sympathizing.

  Everyone wants to cheer for the socially acceptable 
'UnderDog', but no one wants to cheer for those meeting the
current-socially-agreed-upon-profile of the 'MadDog'.
  
  NewsWorld did an interview with Jerry Springer in which
they asked him how he could possibly justify the outrageous
format of his talk show as being of the least bit of 'help'
in solving the problems of his guests and society.
  Springer's reply was basically, "Buy a Clue. I'm the 
Ringmaster of a Circus."

  When Springer was asked about his 'descent' from being a
respectable member of the mainstream news media, to being
the uncontested Joker & Fool of daytime TV, he 'busted' the news media 
as being a bunch of shylocks who provide a modicum
of real news, surrounded by death and disaster in the lives of
people we don't know, and sticking microphones in the faces of
people who have been 'caught' dipping their dick in the wrong
bowl and gleefully screaming 'Gotcha!'.

  The Masses drive the Media, Entertainment drives the Masses,
and the Media drives Entertainment.
  Because we no longer gather in the public square by the 
tens of thousands, being whipped into a mass frenzy by the
emotive diatribes of the Fuhrer, we believe that we are
'different' from the Germans who wore their BrownShirts in 
public gatherings, rather than putting them on daily in the
privacy of our home, before screaming along in righteous
judgement with the studio audience of the 'Jerry Springer
Show', or cheering the black-clad ninja warriors on 'Cops'
as they kick in the doors of monstrous scum guilty of Felony
Dark-Complexion and Felony Inability To Afford A Good Lawyer.

  After deluging us with a flood of pud-pulling entertainment
cleverly disguised as news-coverage of Joey Buttafucko's
love life and plans to murder his wife, the smart-asses at
NewsWorld tease us with the question, "What was the name of
Joey Buttafucko's wife?"
  Huh? 
  Who the fuck cares? She's just some fucking bit-player
victim who gets a couple minutes of air-time in the midst of
the massive coverage of the actions, psyche and motivations
of the 'main protagonist' in an ongoing 'news' saga designed
to increase popcorn and soft-drink sales.
  The news media is well aware that 'the show is over' the
minute they ask the question that enquiring slimes *really*
want to know, which is, "What did it *feel* like when you
were sucking the life force out of another human being?"
(And the follow-up question, "Do you have any pictures?")

  Daytime Primetime Talk Shows fall all over one another to
schedule the guy who got his dick cut off with garden shears.
His 'fifteen minutes' gets stretched to the max, along with
a guarantee of future reruns.
  Let some woman get her pussy ripped out by a psycho, and
it is given quick, short coverage, during which the news
persons look at their shuffling feet, because a woman's
private parts are 'dirty' and she was probably wearing a
skirt that was too short. If a woman wants to make the big
bucks on the talk-show circuit, she needs to get her face
slashed with a razor, since women are supposed to look pretty,
but not supposed to like sex.
 (In Moslem countries, however, it is bad taste to give a
  large amount of coverage to a woman whose face is slashed
  with a razor, because the slut was probably wearing a veil
  that was too short.)

  Canada had a Real Life (TM) rendition of 'River's Edge' take
place in Flin Flon, Manitoba (?), where a bunch of teenagers
kept silent about the murder of one of their friends by 
another of their friends, for six months (?) or so, but it
didn't have Dennis Hopper in it, so there were no reruns,
making the details a little too fuzzy to really remember.
  Life doesn't *imitate* TV, Life *is* TV, but not as well
funded and produced. If you don't recognize this as being the
truth, it's because "You can't *HANDLE* the truth!"


  You gotta have a system...

  People instictively understand this, which is why I am
able to support myself with email spams titled, "How To Make
Big $$$ Sitting At Home, Licking Your Own Dick."
  Unsolicited Commercial Email and Political Parties run on
basically the same underlying concept, which is that Horatio
Alger can tell us any lies he wants, and put his dick anywhere
he pleases, as long as shit still runs downhill and payday is
still on Friday.

  Name the last two bills passed by Congress.
  Name the last two women Slick Willie dipped his dick in.
  News...give me a break...

  Am I supposed to feel 'guilty' about being some sick, sorry,
demented psycho weirdo for fixating on and relating to the
'wrong' imaginary characters and 'wrong' emotive issues that
are involved in a TV movie?
  According to my calculations, I still have over four hundred
unused Reality Avoidance Credits that I have earned by not
giving a fat rat's ass where Slick Willy's dick has been for
the last few years of news coverage regarding the size, shape,
smell and feel of Little Willie.

  My failure to become obsessional in regard to the travel
schedule of the President's dick is likely to work against
me if I find myself in the position of having to defend my
position as an EditWhore and ReportWhore for the Bienfait
Nutly News, when I find myself facing charges for the public
dissemination of a graphic image of a classic Greek statue
of a young boy whose petite, well-formed, beautiful, sexy
young penis...
   Where was I...?

  Sorry...
  I'm actually homophobic, but I got caught up in the 
arguments for the graphic being viewed as 'obscene' that a
prosecutor would be able to make if his personal experience
in the sick, twisted molestation of his own child and those
of others gave him a firm understanding of the danger that
is presented by Pornography Cleverly Disguised As Art.
  If somebody wants to compose a Bienfait Nutly News report
about the President's dick, I would be more than happy to
publish it and get my share of the billion-dollar giveaway
of Digital WaveSpace.

Beer break...molest 'em if you got 'em (tied up)...





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: chatski carl 
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 08:57:44 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: db$: The Wright Brothers vs. Chixalub
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I would like to make 2 short friendly ammendments

On Sat, 2 May 1998, Robert Hettinga wrote:
> .... that privacy itself was an inherent good.

 that privacy itself was an inherent good in a hostile environment.

 But there is a higher goal.
 In an evironment of plenitude (rather than scarcity) every act can be
 purely symbiotic and in no-way parasitic.  In such an environment,
 (which we have technologically but not politically/economically) we can
 create a political/social system where there are no more fascists or
 statists.
  Then I want everyone to know everything about me.


> ....financial system goes away for a few days. Or a month.

 financial system goes away forever!!

> ...Is there any way to step in with digital bearer settlement as a
>robust alternative to book-entry funds transfer?

 IMHO the only robust, sustainable solution is to eliminate all forms of
 such accounting altogether, to decouple production from stored ability to 
 get what you need/want.
 
- Carl





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: TruthMonger 
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 11:52:11 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: The Brain: phones home all your URLs?
In-Reply-To: <354DF3DC.8F9E8ACB@best.com>
Message-ID: <354E0978.69B9@algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


gm wrote:
> I recently installed a copy of The Brain - a nifty UI shell.  But my
> Temporary Internet Files folder filled up with entries of the form:
> "http:////
> In other words each of my web accesses was 'phoned' in to the mother
> brain server, which invoked some back-end .DLL with my URL access as an
> argument.


Scenario #1: You're a CypherPunk who is dedicated to the creation and
dissemination of programs which enhance privacy and security in
InterNet software implementations.
  You want to create a secure program for a particular use, but you
are very busy with other projects and it would take about $30,000 to
farm it out to someone else...

Scenario #2:You are a Corporate Marketeer and you are dedicated to
gathering all of the end-user data possible to make the most efficient
use of your company's resources.
  You see the possibilities for creating the same program that the
CypherPunk is considering and you have a rather large budget...

Scenario #3:You are Head Honcho in the SeeAllKnowAll Department of the
Oppressors, and you are dedicated to keeping track of such things as
which hand Joe & Jane Citizen wipe their ass with.
  You the possibilities of the program the CypherPunk is considering,
you see the potential of 'adding to' the program needed by the
Marketeer, and you happen to have a mountain of resources at your
fingertips and close connections with the company the Marketeer is
working for...

Bottom Line:
  Britain, more comfortable with the marriage of Government, Corporate
and Individual interests in a Socialist/Fascist mix, are openly seeking
to merge the Government and Corporate interests in security, etc., in
the interests of the Citizen, of course.
  In the U.S. this is not happening. It is only a coincidence that all
goverment and corporate offices share the same building and resources
and this fact is only kept 'secret' in the interests of National
Security, and to fight terrorists, pedophiles, drug czars, and people
who wipe their ass with the 'wrong' hand.

Toto






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: TruthMonger 
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 12:31:25 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Toto 2 - Tim May 0
Message-ID: <354E178C.3738@algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Vancouver, British Columbia:

Criminalization of Insanity: Turn a mental hospital with 6,000 patients
  into a mental hospital with 500 patients.

Criminalization of Poverty: Make panhandling a crime, subject to a
  $2,000.00 fine.


[I won! I won!!!]

Toto





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Xcott Craver 
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 13:04:56 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Bad, bad, bill
In-Reply-To: <19980501153418.25294.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Fri, 1 May 1998, Corvus Corvax wrote:

> "WASHINGTON - The Senate Judiciary Committee on Thursday adopted the 
> Digital Millennium Copyright Act, which takes a new step toward 
> protecting creative content in cyberspace by outlawing the equipment 
> used to commit a copyright infringement, not just the act or intent of 
> illegally copying material. 
> ...

	Yah.  This same was mentioned on a digital watermarking forum I
read.  A great deal of my own research centers around attacking & finding
weaknesses in such schemes, and as it's science I am obliged to write code
to prove my hunches.  This bill may make me a criminal!

	This struck a nerve at the time, because the fella who mentioned
the bill was (a) an employee of a watermarking company and (b) mad as Hell
at the rest of us for developing watermark attack software.  If that law
was on the books (and the guy was the CEO or such) at the time, I have no
doubt a few of us would be in big legal trouble. 

	Now, I should disclaim that that particular company is much more
understanding than that one guy.  I met a bunch of their employees (as did
a couple other attack-makers) at a conference, and they were quite clueful
about the importance of watermark robustness research.  However, countless
other watermarking startups exist.  Many have the whole business bet on a
potentially breakable scheme.  Further, watermarking involves people from
non-crypto disciplines, such as image processing, where folks are more
likely to make security mistakes and less likely to appreciate the need
for an adversarial research mode.  This spell DANGER, boys and girls. 
Some company consisting of few people, lots of venture capital, little
experience and lots of tunnel vision is IMHO likely to resort to this law
when researchers find a big hole in their breadwinning technology. 

	I should add that watermark attack tools like unZign and StirMark
are now used as benchmarks by developers of new schemes.  It's only been,
what, half a year since StirMark was created?  A gaggle of watermarking
papers already cite it, and include it in a standard volley of tests.  
These are not evil warez from Hell here.

						-Xcott

==-  Xcott Craver -- Caj@niu.edu -- http://www.math.niu.edu/~caj/  -==
"Also note that elecronagnetic theory proves that if you microwave a
 bar of Ivory soap it turns into a REAL MARSHMALLOW THAT YOU CAN EAT."
                                                   -James "Kibo" Parry




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Peter Swire 
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 13:04:18 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: A new Swiss banking novel
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980504160422.00fc66e0@pop.service.ohio-state.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Greetings:

	This weekend I finished reading a novel that talks about many of the
issues of interest to this group.  It's Christopher Reich, "Numbered
Account," Delacorte Press.  The  author was a real Swiss banker for a few
years.  Now he writes a pretty darn good suspense novel featuring how
numbered Swiss bank accounts work.  In the cryptography debates, the FBI
makes a big deal about how anonymous bank accounts can be used by drug
smugglers, money launderers, international arms merchants, and anti-Western
terrorists.  They're all here in the novel.  So are the U.S. government
agents -- a bit bumbling, thoroughly obnoxious and self-righteous, but also
genuinely concerned about stopping truly bad people.  Reich also talks a
bit about a new crypto system the bank develops for handling secret
transactions.

	I think the book works pretty well as a story.  It also gives human faces
to the issues of bank secrecy, money laundering, and anonymous accounts. If
we are to find ways to have anonymity in cyberspace, we will have to
confront the bad things that anonymity can bring.

	I'd be interested to hear anyone else's reactions to the book.  More
generally, what do you say to well-intentioned people when they say the
following -- won't anonymous accounts contribute, at least a bit, to more
drug smuggling, arms smuggling, and international terrorism?

	[Please, no flames.  I am writing an academic article this summer on money
laundering and financial privacy.  Money laundering laws hold the potential
to choke off cryptography and financial privacy generally.  How can
supporters of privacy best answer back to the calls for stricter regulation?]

	Peter Swire


Prof. Peter Swire
Ohio State University 
College of Law
(614) 292-2547
http://www.osu.edu/units/law/swire.htm (includes draft book on European
Privacy Directive and Internet Privacy Page)




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: funraiser090@usa.net
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 20:40:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Want a new way to get attention?
Message-ID: <199805050340.UAA06898@cygint.cygnus.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Xcott Craver 
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 16:11:50 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: A new Swiss banking novel
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980504160422.00fc66e0@pop.service.ohio-state.edu>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Mon, 4 May 1998, Peter Swire wrote:

> Greetings:
> 
> 	I'd be interested to hear anyone else's reactions to the book.  More
> generally, what do you say to well-intentioned people when they say the
> following -- won't anonymous accounts contribute, at least a bit, to more
> drug smuggling, arms smuggling, and international terrorism?

	You say, "Yes.  Yes they could.  And so could cars."

> 	[Please, no flames.  I am writing an academic article this summer on 
> money laundering and financial privacy.  Money laundering laws hold the 
> potential to choke off cryptography and financial privacy generally.  
> How can supporters of privacy best answer back to the calls for 
> stricter regulation?]

	I dunno.  I guess the best way to answer those calls in the public
arena is to let people know that crypto is useful stuff that everyone will
need as transactions move online.  The shady argument that crypto &
anonymity can facilitate crime is merely an attempt to associate the two,
to give the public the impression that this crypto stuff is up there with
assault weapons and C4, something which can and should be controlled,
while not really affect law-abiding citizens. 

	I advise crypto proponents to halt any analogy-making to 
firearms, for this reason.  Nothing against guns, of course; but to gain 
acceptance crypto cannot be dropped in the same conceptual bin as guns.

							-Xcott

==-  Xcott Craver -- Caj@niu.edu -- http://www.math.niu.edu/~caj/  -==
"This is a different thing:  it's spontaneous and it's called 'wit.'"
                                                      -The Black Adder






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Sunder 
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 15:41:07 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Blizzard Gets Sued For Snooping On Gamers
Message-ID: <354E42A8.6C422A1A@brainlink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 14:29:23 -0400
From: Salvatore Denaro 
To: 'Ray Arachelian' 
Subject: send to list?

They might find this interesting

---  Blizzard Gets Sued For Snooping On Gamers ---
 Game developer Blizzard Entertainment is being sued for unlawful
business practices, stemming from the revelation that the company's
hot-selling new StarCraft snoops through players' hard drives and
e-mails information to the company over the Internet.

http://www.techweb.com/news/story/TWB19980430S0015




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Xcott Craver 
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 17:43:23 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Holy QPRNF...
Message-ID: <199805050043.TAA22628@baker.math.niu.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/980504/ca_live_pi_1.html

Summary:  Digimarc and Live Picture, Inc., team up to offer watermarking
	  services.  

|| ``Until very recently, the creative community was extremely skeptical of 
|| licensing and marketing their work over the Web, which they viewed as an 
|| absolute free-for-all,'' said Doug Dawirs, director of online services at 
|| The Workbook. ``Now these same people and companies are jumping in with 
|| both feet.''

I hope no content creators mistakenly think that this is electronic
content protection (possibly, one can say an aid to detect _unintentional_
illicit use, but not intentional theft), or else there will be a 
free-for-all of a legal kind a little further down the road.

I also wonder about the proposed batch processing option, embedding
the same watermark into multiple images.  I can see a number of
security problems here, especially if Live Picture can not (likely)
keep track of all the images marked by them.

						=Xcott




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 19:43:29 -0700 (PDT)
To: "Edwin E. Smith" 
Subject: Re: A new Swiss banking novel
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 6:19 PM -0700 5/4/98, Edwin E. Smith wrote:

>I agree completely. While I support the right to own guns (and nukes)
>by anyone, guns can be used both ofensively and defensevely while
>crypto can only be used defensevely.
>
>That is unless you put PGP on a stack of diskettes, glue them
>together and whack somebody with them.

Sorry, but this is nonsense.

Crypto can and has been used just like any other weapon. The freedom
fighters in Burma who use PGP to communicate securely and to plan bombings
against their oppressors...how can this be said to be "only defensive"?

I've said this many times, so I won't spend more time here. All "defensive"
weapons have "offensive" uses. Even shields, even armor, even crypto.

To think otherwise is to show no awareness of history.


--Tim May


"The tree of liberty must be watered periodically with the blood of
tyrants...."
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist              | black markets, collapse of governments.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "(c)ÇhĆŁk(r)3/4ż" 
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 17:04:25 -0700 (PDT)
To: TruthMonger 
Subject: L I S T !  ! ! ! !
In-Reply-To: <354E178C.3738@algebra.com>
Message-ID: <354E4919.A8B7B58B@thepentagon.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


GET ME OFF THIS LIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

TruthMonger wrote:

> Thanks for using NetForward!
> http://www.netforward.com
> v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v
>
> Vancouver, British Columbia:
>
> Criminalization of Insanity: Turn a mental hospital with 6,000 patients
>   into a mental hospital with 500 patients.
>
> Criminalization of Poverty: Make panhandling a crime, subject to a
>   $2,000.00 fine.
>
> [I won! I won!!!]
>
> Toto







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Edwin E. Smith" 
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 18:13:08 -0700 (PDT)
To: Peter Swire 
Subject: Re: A new Swiss banking novel
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980504160422.00fc66e0@pop.service.ohio-state.edu>
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980504210938.008639a0@mailhost.IntNet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

At 04:04 PM 5/4/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Greetings:
>
>	This weekend I finished reading a novel that talks about many of 
the
>issues of interest to this group.  It's Christopher Reich, "Numbered
>Account," Delacorte Press.  The  author was a real Swiss banker for 
a few
>years.  Now he writes a pretty darn good suspense novel featuring 
how
>numbered Swiss bank accounts work.  In the cryptography debates, the 
FBI
>makes a big deal about how anonymous bank accounts can be used by 
drug
>smugglers, money launderers, international arms merchants, and anti-
Western
>terrorists.  They're all here in the novel.  So are the U.S. 
government
>agents -- a bit bumbling, thoroughly obnoxious and self-righteous, 
but also
>genuinely concerned about stopping truly bad people.  Reich also 
talks a
>bit about a new crypto system the bank develops for handling secret
>transactions.
>


Excuse me for asking, but what's so bad about "drug smugglers, money 
launderers, international arms merchants, and anti-Western 
terrorists."

Edwin E. Smith

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Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0
Charset: noconv

iQA/AwUBNU5m0UmNf6b56PAtEQJ9+wCfRNVsy7MEcbeQ7H5UZswN4aUqP6AAnipg
QbOt7mM01LbEyIqOwG2DE83l
=+S8l
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


When freedom is outlawed.......Only outlaws will be free!

If cryptography is outlawed, pomz pvumbxt xjmm ibwf dszquphsbqiz.

Fun! Fast! Revealing! Try "The World's Smallest Political Quiz" at:
   http://www.self-gov.org/quiz.html

IS AIDS A GOVERNMENT/DRUG COMPANY HOAX?
   http://www.virusmyth.com/aids/index.htm




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Edwin E. Smith" 
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 18:25:34 -0700 (PDT)
To: Xcott Craver 
Subject: Re: A new Swiss banking novel
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980504160422.00fc66e0@pop.service.ohio-state.edu>
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980504211950.0086c620@mailhost.IntNet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

At 06:11 PM 5/4/98 -0500, you wrote:
>	I advise crypto proponents to halt any analogy-making to 
>firearms, for this reason.  Nothing against guns, of course; but to 
gain 
>acceptance crypto cannot be dropped in the same conceptual bin as 
guns.
>
>							-Xcott


I agree completely. While I support the right to own guns (and nukes) 
by anyone, guns can be used both ofensively and defensevely while 
crypto can only be used defensevely.

That is unless you put PGP on a stack of diskettes, glue them 
together and whack somebody with them.

Edwin

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0
Charset: noconv

iQA/AwUBNU5pNUmNf6b56PAtEQLOFQCgvJ2MpcZ6or2bFKdoXc4NRyPn70IAni/X
WOf+RzpEgwuIXGEVoHi9DKSa
=b+pp
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


When freedom is outlawed.......Only outlaws will be free!

If cryptography is outlawed, pomz pvumbxt xjmm ibwf dszquphsbqiz.

Fun! Fast! Revealing! Try "The World's Smallest Political Quiz" at:
   http://www.self-gov.org/quiz.html

IS AIDS A GOVERNMENT/DRUG COMPANY HOAX?
   http://www.virusmyth.com/aids/index.htm




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: mgraffam@mhv.net
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 18:38:58 -0700 (PDT)
To: Xcott Craver 
Subject: Re: A new Swiss banking novel
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On Mon, 4 May 1998, Xcott Craver wrote:
> 	I advise crypto proponents to halt any analogy-making to 
> firearms, for this reason.  Nothing against guns, of course; but to gain 
> acceptance crypto cannot be dropped in the same conceptual bin as guns.

And spin the same propoganda wheel as the Man? Not me. I don't see crypto
gaining acceptance among the masses out of fear.

Look.. saying "Bad guys can use crypto to not get caught, and they can
use guns to kill people, so lets outlaw crypto and guns." Isn't an 
argument based on reason so much as it is fear. "Bad guys" strike fear
into the hearts of people, and they will do anything to protect
themselves, including shooting themselves in the foot. For every 
bad point that can be found for private ownership of firearms a postive
one can be found. The same goes for crypto. Guns can protect us from
criminals. Criminals can use guns to kill us. Crypto can protect us from
criminals. Criminals can use crypto to protect themselves. The list can
go on and on, and in the end it all will boil down to freedom on the
one hand, and some sick, distorted view of safety on the other.

Fear is more persuasive than rationality.

The people will gravitate to the side that suits them. Freedom is a damn
scary sight, so safety is embraced. If you want to save crypto (and guns
too, btw) talk about freedom and privacy first and crypto second.
It probably won't work though.. just like talking about freedom and
the right to self-defense didn't work with firearms.

As for me.. I don't give a damn how many laws are passed and what sort of
punishments are put into the books: I'll use crypto, get M^S mod N 
tatooed on my forehead, and still say whatever I like. And if "they" want
to talk over my position with me in Room 101, they can take the issue
up with the .45 that I'm not supposed to have.

Michael J. Graffam (mgraffam@mhv.net)
http://www.mhv.net/~mgraffam -- Philosophy, Religion, Computers, Crypto, etc
"Let your life be a counter-friction to stop the machine."
			Henry David Thoreau "Civil Disobedience"

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0mBIVyITguplGQBLj9YiJk3TFYgU55rmOI3bGHkt/ytoH8CxBMHCOWEkUFR+C489
6GAj62wOO50=
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Xcott Craver 
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 19:33:39 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: A new Swiss banking novel
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Mon, 4 May 1998 mgraffam@mhv.net wrote:
> On Mon, 4 May 1998, Xcott Craver wrote:

> > 	I advise crypto proponents to halt any analogy-making to 
> > firearms, for this reason.  Nothing against guns, of course; but to gain 
> > acceptance crypto cannot be dropped in the same conceptual bin as guns.
> 
> And spin the same propoganda wheel as the Man? Not me. I don't see crypto
> gaining acceptance among the masses out of fear.

	I don't think it's spinning the same propaganda wheel.  In
	fact, if anything, you're probably giving in to "the Man" by 
	letting this view of crypto persist.  That is, IMHO; since
	IMHO the feds are trying to push this view of crypto.

	The implicit connection between crypto and weapons is what 
	will allow the feds to cater to that fear to get it banned.
	Further, as many people simply don't own guns, many are
	easily detached from gun-related issues.  A large part of
	the CA smoking ban was due to this same detachment:  a large 
	non-smoking majority really doesn't give a damn about
	smokers' rights, because they don't see it hurting them.

	The TRVTH is that crypto will be used by just about anyone
	who does anything over an electronic link.  People will
	need it for friendly day-to-day transactions.  A crypto ban
	will be harder to push if people see crypto in this way:
	less like a gun, more like a car or a beeper; maybe useful to 
	criminals but useful in everyday affairs to law-abiding people
	too---nay, NECESSARY--and a silly thing to ban.  

	If you stick with the line that "crypto, like a gun, can
	be used by good guys as well as bad guys," you'll give
	across the opposite impression.  Rather than seeing crypto
	as something they want and will use a lot, many people will see
	crypto as something they probably won't even have in their
	house, something whose actual use is something to be avoided.  
	I mean, you could probably get steak knives banned in today's 
	climate by defending them like that.

							-Xcott




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 20:12:23 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: NSA Ordered to Tell Secrets
Message-ID: <199805050312.XAA10343@camel7.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


In an April 30 Memorandum Opinion and Order Senior US 
District of New Mexico Judge Santiago Campos has ordered 
the National Security Agency to produce in camera evidence 
that it can refuse to respond to allegations of NSA intercepts 
of Libyan and Iranian encrypted messages in the 1980s.

   http://jya.com/whp043098.htm  (102K)

This order was issued in repsonse to cryptographer Bill Payne's 
FOIA request for the information as part of his wrongful 
termination suit against NSA and Sandia National Laboratory. 

In the 56-page order Judge Campos reviews the principal 
actions in the suit, and to buttress the order for NSA to 
tell him what it knows about the intercepts invokes recent 
FOIA regulations which more stringently require intelligence 
agencies to substantiate the use of the "Glomar response" 
in refusing to affirm or deny the existence of information on 
the grounds that to do so would  harm national security.

He states that case law requires more diligent review in the case 
of "Glomarization," so he is obligated to make a review in
this instance. He states that based on what NSA has heretofore
provided the court, withholding of information on these intercepts 
does not appear justified.

Campos has reviewed public documents on allegations of 
the Swiss firm Crypto AG's "spiking" of its cryptographic 
equipment (with direction by NSA for backdoors) then 
selling it to Libya and Iran, Crypto AG's employee Hans 
Buehler's story of the work, Reagan's statement on the intercepts,
and other reports, and finds that while the stories are not
authoritative of the USG position, they do warrant his detailed 
review of NSA's Glomar response. 

Campos says, paraphrased, "if NSA continues to have the right 
it claims in this case to determine what is secret and what is not,
then it can declare anything secret and thereby undercut the very 
purpose of the FOIA. That is not acceptable."

It's an impressive summary of the legal conflict between the 
public's right to know and governmental secrecy. And may 
help ease access information on NSA global surveillance 
operations. Or, if Campos decides in NSA's favor, may shut 
the door more securely.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Edwin E. Smith" 
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 20:29:45 -0700 (PDT)
To: Tim May 
Subject: Re: A new Swiss banking novel
In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19980504211950.0086c620@mailhost.IntNet.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980504232748.00864230@mailhost.IntNet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

At 07:43 PM 5/4/98 -0700, you wrote:
>At 6:19 PM -0700 5/4/98, Edwin E. Smith wrote:
>
>>I agree completely. While I support the right to own guns (and 
nukes)
>>by anyone, guns can be used both ofensively and defensevely while
>>crypto can only be used defensevely.
>>
>>That is unless you put PGP on a stack of diskettes, glue them
>>together and whack somebody with them.
>
>Sorry, but this is nonsense.
>
>Crypto can and has been used just like any other weapon. The freedom
>fighters in Burma who use PGP to communicate securely and to plan 
bombings
>against their oppressors...how can this be said to be "only 
defensive"?
>
>I've said this many times, so I won't spend more time here. All 
"defensive"
>weapons have "offensive" uses. Even shields, even armor, even 
crypto.
>
>To think otherwise is to show no awareness of history.
>
>
>--Tim May
>
>
>"The tree of liberty must be watered periodically with the blood of
>tyrants...."
>---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------
:----
>Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital 
money,
>ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital 
pseudonyms, zero
>W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information 
markets,
>Licensed Ontologist              | black markets, collapse of 
governments.
>
>
>
>

I suppose that you would consider a forearm raised against a baton to 
be offensive also!

Edwin
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=FK0r
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When freedom is outlawed.......Only outlaws will be free!

If cryptography is outlawed, pomz pvumbxt xjmm ibwf dszquphsbqiz.

Fun! Fast! Revealing! Try "The World's Smallest Political Quiz" at:
   http://www.self-gov.org/quiz.html

IS AIDS A GOVERNMENT/DRUG COMPANY HOAX?
   http://www.virusmyth.com/aids/index.htm




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: mgraffam@mhv.net
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 20:55:31 -0700 (PDT)
To: Xcott Craver 
Subject: Re: A new Swiss banking novel
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On Mon, 4 May 1998, Xcott Craver wrote:
> 	I don't think it's spinning the same propaganda wheel.  In
> 	fact, if anything, you're probably giving in to "the Man" by 
> 	letting this view of crypto persist.  That is, IMHO; since
> 	IMHO the feds are trying to push this view of crypto.

I understand this view, but I don't see the worth in whitewashing things
for the public. We've been fed enough BS already.. defending crypto
with ready-made arguments that sound good and don't conjure up images
of firearms is no different to me than spinning a long tale about
Iraqi terrorists and drug dealers that conjure up fear to support the
ban on weapons.

I'd rather speak the truth, so far as I understand it, and let it conjure
up what it may.

> 	The implicit connection between crypto and weapons is what 
> 	will allow the feds to cater to that fear to get it banned.

I understand this. They've got us good. Those that would ban crypto 
would have the public believe that we are all a bunch of crazy, paranoid
math/computer geeks and that the FBI, NSA and their ilk can protect
the public from harm (and us?). That fear will always get fed upon.
That fear will be used to twist things all out of shape until they seem
to be a negative image of what is really there. This happens all the time.

If we are going to combat this stuff, it is going to have to be by
fighting that fear, and not throwing around horse-shit arguments like
big business and the government do. 

If we are going to ease the fear of _guns_, then responsible adults need
to start (or further) gun clubs. Larger clubs need to take part in civic
events to show the people by their actions that they aren't a bunch of
lunatics who shoot at everything that moves. Such clubs need to work with
civilian watch organizations and the police to train citizens to respect
firearms and to help get illegal weapons off the streets. 

Cypherpunks need to write code. We need to show people that strong crypto
isn't just some obscure technology used to lock away kiddie porn and
transmit super-spy doomsday messages. We need to get good, user friendly,
applications to do document signing, watermarking, email encryption, bulk
file encryption, and countless other tasks. These applications have to
be usable; they have to integrate in with the user's desktop and ordinary
applications (MS Word, Photoshop, etc) as well as possible. 

I think that we all know that the uses and benefits of strong crypto
far outweigh the drawbacks. The uses are there, today. If we could plug
strong crypto into the desktop; if the "Kick-ass-military-grade crypto ON"
button were a click away from "Save as.." and if all that were sitting
on John Q. User's naked Cindy Crawford desktop picture, then it would
become as friendly to them as any other feature MS Word, and soon enough
the very statement "Bad guys use crypto" begins to sound dumb because
the fear isn't there anymore.

Fundamentally fear is irrational. The best arguments in the world won't
speak to an irrational person. You have to ease those fears with actions.

Again.. cypherpunks write code.

> 	The TRVTH is that crypto will be used by just about anyone
> 	who does anything over an electronic link.  People will
> 	need it for friendly day-to-day transactions.

Absolutably. I just don't think that they will get this by talking
about how crypto can be used in friendly day-to-day transactions.

>  A crypto ban will be harder to push if people see crypto in this way:
> 	less like a gun, more like a car or a beeper; maybe useful to 
> 	criminals but useful in everyday affairs to law-abiding people
> 	too---nay, NECESSARY--and a silly thing to ban.  

Cheers! :)

> 	If you stick with the line that "crypto, like a gun, can
> 	be used by good guys as well as bad guys," you'll give
> 	across the opposite impression.

But it can. Just like a beeper or a car can. Just like any sort of
technology can. This is the truth, and I'm not in the business of
lying.

When John Q. America tells me that drug dealers use guns, I'll agree
and point to the police officers (damn.. not real good example, but
you get the idea :)

When they quiver in their boots because of IDEA or CAST and tell me
that bad guy Y uses crypto to hide his world domination plans, I'll
agree, and then I'll point to the U.S. defense messaging system.

> 	I mean, you could probably get steak knives banned in today's 
> 	climate by defending them like that.

I'm sure you are right.. but defending them like that is the _truth_
any technology _can_ be used for good or evil.. we have to stop the
people, not the technology. Even though your method may work a little
more efficiently, it tries to cover over the truth; to hide it.

I can't do that. Covering up the truth is a step away from denying it..
an easy step to make going down, but it is one hell of a hard climb
coming back up.

I'll take my chances with C, and maybe some Perl if I'm lucky. If things
really get hairy, I can always resort to the tatoo and the .45

Michael J. Graffam (mgraffam@mhv.net)
http://www.mhv.net/~mgraffam -- Philosophy, Religion, Computers, Crypto, etc
"Let your life be a counter-friction to stop the machine."
			Henry David Thoreau "Civil Disobedience"

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Xcott Craver 
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 23:48:14 -0700 (PDT)
To: mgraffam@mhv.net
Subject: Explaining crypto to people (was Re: A new Swiss banking novel)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Mon, 4 May 1998 mgraffam@mhv.net wrote:
> On Mon, 4 May 1998, Xcott Craver wrote:
> 
> I understand this view, but I don't see the worth in whitewashing things
> for the public. We've been fed enough BS already.. defending crypto
> with ready-made arguments that sound good and don't conjure up images
> of firearms is no different to me than spinning a long tale about
> Iraqi terrorists and drug dealers that conjure up fear to support the
> ban on weapons.

	I'm not advocating "ready-made" arguments.  Rather, I'm 
	suggesting that we get rid of an *analogy*.  An analogy isn't
	the truth.  In this case, it's a way to frame the truth 
	for non-technical people.  Dropping an analogy is subtracting
	BS, not adding it.

	Now, I'm not saying analogies are evil, but the analogy
	to firearms is a *bad* one, and it stands to give people
	the misconception that crypto is many things that it is 
	not (not to mention including ).

	If you want to analogize crypto to something, analogize
	it to something crypto is more like.  

> > 	The implicit connection between crypto and weapons is what 
> > 	will allow the feds to cater to that fear to get it banned.
> 
> I understand this. They've got us good. Those that would ban crypto 
> would have the public believe that we are all a bunch of crazy, paranoid
> math/computer geeks

	Well, after all, once we perfect the neural interface, we _will_ 
	all become munitions.

> If we are going to combat this stuff, it is going to have to be by
> fighting that fear, and not throwing around horse-shit arguments like
> big business and the government do. 

	You can't fight fear unless you remove some misconceptions.
	The association with firearms (which is in turn associated
	by the gov't to baaad things) is only going to cause 
	misconceptions in the public arena.	

> If we are going to ease the fear of _guns_, then responsible adults need
> to start (or further) gun clubs. 

	This is, IMHO, the wrong way to remove the fear caused by
	the crypto-firearm analogy.  The right way is to drop the 
	analogy, because it's flawed.  I agree that people should
	be less afraid of guns, but you just don't have TIME to cure
	that, if you can at all.

> I think that we all know that the uses and benefits of strong crypto
> far outweigh the drawbacks. The uses are there, today. If we could plug
> strong crypto into the desktop; if the "Kick-ass-military-grade crypto ON"
> button were a click away from "Save as.." and if all that were sitting
> on John Q. User's naked Cindy Crawford desktop picture, then it would
> become as friendly to them as any other feature MS Word, and soon enough
> the very statement "Bad guys use crypto" begins to sound dumb because
> the fear isn't there anymore.

	..As will the phrase, "cryptography is like a gun...."  Joe User
	won't see authentication as "like a gun" any more than his telephone
	is "like a gun."

> > 	If you stick with the line that "crypto, like a gun, can
> > 	be used by good guys as well as bad guys," you'll give
> > 	across the opposite impression.
> 
> But it can. Just like a beeper or a car can. Just like any sort of
> technology can. This is the truth, and I'm not in the business of
> lying.

	?!!?!!!

	The phase, "now, bad guys can use this to kill you just like 
	a gun, but responsible law-abiding citizens can use it too"
	is true for ALL solid objects larger than a breadbox.  You
	do NOT say this, however, when selling someone a halogen lamp
	or a Tickle-me-Elmo doll, or introducing them to anything
	new that they should have at home.  This doesn't make you a 
	liar.

	It is chillingly naive to defend an argument on the grounds
	that when dissected logically it is a true statement.  
	Do you approve of the government repeatedly warning people that 
	"crypto can be used by terrorists!"  It is, after all, a true 
	statement!  How about the next time you walk through airport 
	security you say, "I could have concealed explosives in my pants."  
	True statement, and you're not in the business of lying.  Would you 
	consider yourself less honest for not saying it?

	See, whatever the truth value of the statement, the end
	result is the suggestion of a lie.  

> I'm sure you are right.. but defending them like that is the _truth_
> any technology _can_ be used for good or evil.. we have to stop the
> people, not the technology. Even though your method may work a little
> more efficiently, it tries to cover over the truth; to hide it.

	Dropping a flawed analogy isn't covering the truth.  Rather,
	keeping the analogy distorts the truth.  It scares and 
	alienates people and makes them think cryptography is this
	weird stuff they'll never personally use which is less
	like a PIN number on steroids and more like plastique.
	And this is the last thing we need.

> Michael J. Graffam (mgraffam@mhv.net)

						-Xcott




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: mgraffam@mhv.net
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 01:00:14 -0700 (PDT)
To: Xcott Craver 
Subject: Re: Explaining crypto to people (was Re: A new Swiss banking novel)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On Tue, 5 May 1998, Xcott Craver wrote:
> 	I'm not advocating "ready-made" arguments.  Rather, I'm 
> 	suggesting that we get rid of an *analogy*.  An analogy isn't
> 	the truth.

Agreed. The analogy is not the truth, however, it is true firearms,
beepers, cars and another other technology can be used for good or evil.
To treat crypto differently than these other technologies merely because
we have an interest in it is less than desirable. 

What I advocate is to present the view that the technology in all forms
be advanced, and where appropriate disclosed. Undisclosed BS crypto
algorithms have hurt us for to long. Bad design in the telephone system
has done the same. I advocate full disclosure and advancement. When
those who are scared of these things try to leverage fear against it
by saying that undesirable can/will use it, I will not deny this, because
it is true. 

Having said that, I don't really think it is necessary to go around
saying "Crypto is like a bomb" either. Crypto _can_ be used as a defensive
or an offensive weapon, however the same technology can be used for
authentication and digital cash and loads of other neat stuff. I'll
preach about all of them, especially those that I personally have an
interest in.. authentication, digital cash and secure email. 

> 	If you want to analogize crypto to something, analogize
> 	it to something crypto is more like.  

There is a reason that militaries have long used spears and crypto.
I do not mean this statement to conjure fear, but it is true that
crypt can be used as a weapon; it is, after all classified as a
munition, and for good reason when looking for the government's POV.
Certain analogies are useful in certain instances. When useful to
make the analogy to firearms, it _can_ be an excellent one.. so can
a lock. 

Last time I checked though, padlocks aren't a hot topic for debate as
to their being banned. Crypto, in certain aspects, is.

> 	..As will the phrase, "cryptography is like a gun...."  Joe User
> 	won't see authentication as "like a gun" any more than his telephone
> 	is "like a gun."

Right. But I don't trust words to get it done. Most people will believe
what they are told. And I can't scream as loud as the machine.

> 	The phase, "now, bad guys can use this to kill you just like 
> 	a gun, but responsible law-abiding citizens can use it too"
> 	is true for ALL solid objects larger than a breadbox.

Exactly. Which is _precisely_ the reason why outlawing things on the
basis that criminals can use them is insane.

>  You
> 	do NOT say this, however, when selling someone a halogen lamp
> 	or a Tickle-me-Elmo doll, or introducing them to anything
> 	new that they should have at home.  This doesn't make you a 
> 	liar.

No, I dont offer it up because it is irrelevent.. as you say, the same
is true for a breadbox. But if asked point-blank if some technology
can be used for crime Y, I'll admit it if it is true, and then I'll
show the foolishness of this line of thought.. and I'd make that point
that if we take this line of thought to its conclusion we must get
rid of everything larger than a breadbox.

And, after all that, if we are talking about controversial technologies,
individual freedoms and the like, I may just bring up firearms because
it is a technology that is in the same boat as crypto. A munition that
is getting a whole lot of attention.

> 	It is chillingly naive to defend an argument on the grounds
> 	that when dissected logically it is a true statement.  

Are you suggesting that I should defend and argument, when looked at
logically is false?

> 	Do you approve of the government repeatedly warning people that 
> 	"crypto can be used by terrorists!"  It is, after all, a true 
> 	statement!

Yes, it is a true statement.. and so is "crypto can be used by nice old
grandma's to exchange email with the grandkids in NY." Do I approve of
the gov't saying X? Only if they also say it's compliment (which is
equally true) else they are misrepresenting what is true by being
biased. One can take many true statements and present them in a way to
make things seem to be what they are not.

> 	Dropping a flawed analogy isn't covering the truth.  Rather,
> 	keeping the analogy distorts the truth.

See, I don't think that the analogy to weaponry is all that far off.
The exact same software that could let me sign my documents or
order neat stuff over the web can use the exact same algorithms
for transmitting designs for bombs.

Lets face it. Weaponry _is_ a double-edged sword.. so is crypto.
If we say that we want to bring every criminal to justice in the
most efficient way with no regard to anything else, then we should
get rid of crypto.. its as simple as that.. thats pretty obvious.

However, it is also true that weaponry has a good side.. it can
protect us against those criminals that we don't bring to justice.

Crypto has even bigger advantages.. it is _the_ technology that
can fuel completely new ways of commerce and communication..
and it can protect us from the bad guys too.. and, statistically,
a whole helluvalot better than guns can at that.

I don't think that we should make crypto out to be different from
guns in that they are completely different, because there are a lot
of similarities .. how they have been used historically, some of the
pros and cons, etc. This is a very real concern. 

Let me ask you. If you were held hostage, which would you rather have
your captor's exchange of information encrypted with, IDEA or an
aristocrat? What would you rather have the criminals run around with,
guns or clubs? 

The answers are simple, if all we value is our safety.. but this is
what I have tried to convey.. for both of these technologies, crypto and
weaponry.. the reasons for having them around far surpass our concerns
for safety from bad guys. 

I think that weaponry and crypto are related. They both have direct
military uses, and they both have direct civilian uses. Both are
controversial. I think that the analogy between them can be a good
one, in some circumstances. 

Right now, I think that crypto is in a position similar to where firearms
were (minus the hostile environment) during times of exploration in days
past. It stands as a technology that is capable of serving us in a
variety of powerful ways during a time where its application is
vitally important. 
 
Michael J. Graffam (mgraffam@mhv.net)
http://www.mhv.net/~mgraffam -- Philosophy, Religion, Computers, Crypto, etc
"Let your life be a counter-friction to stop the machine."
			Henry David Thoreau "Civil Disobedience"

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 02:12:22 -0700 (PDT)
To: bill.stewart@pobox.com (Bill Stewart)
Subject: Re: Why are you bouncing my mail to Cypherpunks?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980505014354.00913b60@popd.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <199805050908.EAA02726@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text


The antispam assholes suddenly blocked domain ix.netcom.com.

(an amazing thing to do, all in all, and shows how far away from reality
can people be carried out by religion)

It turned out that sendmail at our mail relay site was ckecking 
their "blackhole DNS database".

I deleted all the rules that refer to them and now things seem to be OK.

I am sorry for your troubles, Bill.  Thanks for letting me know.

igor

Bill Stewart wrote:
> 
> Hi, Igor - this bounced.  Is it because I sent it as
> 	stewarts@ix.netcom.com
> instead of
> 	bill.stewart@pobox.com
> (which is how I subscribe, through cyberpass), or is RBL blocking
> Netcom again, or is something else wrong?
> 
> 		Thanks;  Bill
> 
> 
> >Return-Path: <>
> >Received: from dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.13])
> >	by ixmail7.ix.netcom.com (8.8.7-s-4/8.8.7/(NETCOM v1.01)) with ESMTP id KAA03312; 
> >	for ; Mon, 4 May 1998 10:15:35 -0700 (PDT)
> >Received: from localhost (localhost)
> >          by dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) with internal
> >	  id MAA15308; Mon, 4 May 1998 12:15:32 -0500 (CDT)
> >Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 12:15:32 -0500 (CDT)
> >From: Mail Delivery Subsystem 
> >Message-Id: <199805041715.MAA15308@dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com>
> >To: 
> >Subject: Returned mail: Service unavailable
> >Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (failure)
> >
> >The original message was received at Mon, 4 May 1998 12:14:52 -0500 (CDT)
> >from smap@localhost
> >
> >   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
> >
> >
> >   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
> >... while talking to mail.algebra.com.:
> >>>> MAIL From: SIZE=1102
> ><<< 521 ... #blocked.contact postmaster
> >554 ... Service unavailable
> >
> >   ----- Original message follows -----
> >
> >Return-Path: 
> >Received: (from smap@localhost)
> >          by dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4)
> >	  id MAA15254 for ; Mon, 4 May 1998 12:14:52 -0500 (CDT)
> >Received: from pax-ca6-17.ix.netcom.com(199.35.217.209) by dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3)
> >	id rma015185; Mon May  4 12:14:15 1998
> >Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980504100635.008f7950@popd.ix.netcom.com>
> >X-Sender: stewarts@popd.ix.netcom.com
> >X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32)
> >Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 10:06:35 -0700
> >To: cypherpunks@algebra.com
> >From: Bill Stewart 
> >Subject: Forward: --India's INSAT hacked
> >Mime-Version: 1.0
> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >
> >>From Computer Underground Digest
> >------------------------------
> >
> >Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 11:06:30 -0700
> >From: Jeremy Lassen 
> >Subject: File 9--India's INSAT hacked
> >
> >Space Age Publishing's India correspondent B. R. Rao reports that
> >"hackers" have succeeded in stealing transponder time on board
> >India's domestic communications satellite, INSAT. The Network
> >Ops. Control Center(NOCC)of India's Dept. of Telecommunications
> >is "...in the process of identifying the culprits".
> >
> >The director of NOCC confirms that a reward has been offered to
> >anyone who can provide information that helps identify the
> >culprits.  Reports indicate the NOCC is aware that "...anybody in
> >possession of the technical details of INSAT and its frequency
> >ranges can at regular intervals tap into its transponders and
> >transmit data free across the globe."
> >
> >I know this is rather vague, but I hadn't read about this
> >anywhere else, and thought that the CUD's readers might find it
> >interesting. Anybody need some transponders time?  :)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 				Thanks! 
> 					Bill
> Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
> PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639
> 
> 
> 
> 				Thanks! 
> 					Bill
> Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
> PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639
> 



	- Igor.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 22:41:03 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: corvette.bxa.doc.gov
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <93e305df326c177e9c0b2bb0ed69b147@kapten.zoom.nu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


mgraffam@mhv.net writes:

> Ahh well.. from your log entries, it seems as if corvette isn't
> necessarily just running a bot. It looks as if humans might be running
> around too. I prefer the bot, personally..

An AltaVista search for the name yields a number of www logfiles
(including MIL sites) that go back until 1996.

FOIA, anyone?





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 07:12:55 -0700 (PDT)
To: william lewis <" Bill.Lewis"@hq.doe.gov>,       tyler przybylek 
Subject: Payne-Morales vs. NSA: Memorandum Opinion and Order
Message-ID: <354F1D2B.375A@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Tuesday 5/5/98 7:17 AM

Lawyers and MCs

Morales and I met on Monday to discuss strategy for response to

Payne-Morales vs. NSA: Memorandum Opinion and Order

which is cross-linked at http://www.aci.net/kalliste/ from
http://www.jya.com/whp043098.htm

We will, of course, file 

Rule 52. Findings by the Court; Judgment on Partial Findings

    (a) Effect. In all actions tried upon the facts without a jury or 
with an advisory jury, the court shall find the facts specially and 
state separately its conclusions of law thereon, and judgment shall be 
entered pursuant to Rule 58; and in granting or refusing interlocutory 
injunctions the court shall similarly set forth the findings of fact and 
conclusions of law which constitute the grounds of its action. Requests 
for findings are not necessary for purposes of review. Findings of fact, 
whether based on oral or documentary evidence, shall not be set aside 
unless clearly erroneous, and due regard shall be given to the 
opportunity of the trial court to judge of the credibility of the 
witnesses. The findings of a master, to the extent that the court adopts 
them, shall be considered as the findings of the court. It will be 
sufficient if the findings of fact and conclusions of law are stated 
orally and recorded in open court following the close of the evidence or 
appear in an opinion or memorandum of decision filed by the court. 
Findings of fact and conclusions of law are unnecessary on decisions of 
motions under Rules 12 or 56 or any other motion except as provided in 
subdivision (c) of this rule.
    (b) Amendment. On a party's motion filed no later than 10 days after 
entry of judgment, the court may amend its findings--or make additional 
findings--and may amend the judgment accordingly. The motion may 
accompany a motion for a new trial under Rule 59. When findings of fact 
are made in actions tried without a jury, the sufficiency of the 
evidence supporting the findings may be later questioned whether or not 
in the district court the party raising the question objected to the 
findings, moved to amend them, or moved for partial findings.

motion.

Lawyers, we suspect that the possibility that Campos wrote the 56 page
document is remote.

Reason is that informants within the federal court system have told us
that
the government lawyers write the opinion and order, then gives them to
the 
judge to sign.

Morales and noticed in previous cases that material not presented to
judges were appearing in the judges' documents.

So when we study the document we will be looking for 

	1 material cited by Campos which Campos did not or should not
	have in his possession

	2  introduction of legal citations not presented to the court by either
	plaintiffs or defendant.

A judge is supposed to judge, not help either side.

	3 felony violations of the False Statement Act.

We learned from an Hispanic lawyer that government lawyers give false
citations
of case law to a judge to have the judge agree and dismiss the
plaintiff's case.
 
Morales and I still have been unable to obtain docket sheets from the
Tenth circuit for 
cases No. 94-2205, Payne v Sandia and 95-2204, Morales v Sandia.

We both won but crooked federal judges gave the win to Sandia.

Morales and my main purpose in filing the NSA genocide and deficient
crypto
algorithm lawsuit was to expose corruption in the US federal court
system.

A side purpose an international public service to expose technical
details of NSA's
bungled spy stingS so that congress can take some action to remedy
damage done
by US 'intelligence' agencies.

Albuquerque Journal 4/21/98 page A6 reports what happened.

  U.S. Aided Communist Foe Pol Pot
  Richard Reeves

  LOS ANGELES - ...

  Even after he fell from national power, we helped supply and protect
  Pol Pot because the Khmer Rouge was tying down large number of
occupying
  North Vietnamese troops.
    These are some of the names of the evil who were or still are paid
friends:
  o  Saddam Hussein, paid for making war on Iran.
  o  Gulbuddin Hekmatry, who made his name throwing acid in the faces of
female
     students in Kabul who dared to wear western dress, paid for making
was against
     communists in Afghanistan.
  o  The Taliban, the religious warriors we helped train to fight
communists who are 
     beating or killing those same women right now in Afghanistan.
  o  Manuel Noriega, the soldier-thug we encouraged to overthrow
elections in Panama
     because we did not like the results.
  o  Mobuto Sese Seko, one Joseph Mobutu, our man in Zaire.
  o  Jonas Savimbi, in constant war in Angola
  The list goes on.  It has for a long time and will, even if communism
is dead as a
  national security threat of the United States.  In may of these cases
our interest 
  involved resources - oil, usually, ...

Settlement should be made QUICKLY Before something possibly VERY
UNFORTUNATE happens.

Also, I needed legal delivery practice prior to filing a Privacy Act and
defamation
lawsuit.

Let's all hope for settlement.

Later
bill






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Jean-Francois Avon" 
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 07:21:27 -0700 (PDT)
To: "Cypherpunks" 
Subject: Re: Explaining crypto to people (was Re: A new Swiss banking novel)
Message-ID: <199805051426.KAA25168@cti06.citenet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Tue, 5 May 1998 01:48:02 -0500 (CDT), Xcott Craver wrote:

> Now, I'm not saying analogies are evil, but the analogy
> to firearms is a *bad* one, and it stands to give people
> the misconception that crypto is many things that it is 
> not (not to mention including ).

I agree on you opinion of the use of analogies, at large.  
The stigma is real (as in "happening") but it is nevertheless a load of bull
since it is the result of the population misconceptions, of being brainwasher by the apostles of 
political correctness.  

The quintessential aspects of guns in a free society is that they are Liberty's teeths.
Crypto is also the same, only after the teeths have been bashed in...

I argued this over the Canadian Firearms Digest list.

Ciao

jfa

Jean-Francois Avon, Pierrefonds(Montreal) QC Canada
  JFA Technologies, R&D physicists & engineers
  Instrumentation & control, LabView programming.
PGP keys: http://w3.citenet.net/users/jf_avon
     and: http://bs.mit.edu:8001/pks-toplev.html
PGP ID:C58ADD0D:529645E8205A8A5E F87CC86FAEFEF891 
PGP ID:5B51964D:152ACCBCD4A481B0 254011193237822C






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Jean-Francois Avon" 
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 07:24:27 -0700 (PDT)
To: "Cypherpunks" 
Subject: Re: Explaining crypto to people (was Re: A new Swiss banking novel)
Message-ID: <199805051430.KAA25240@cti06.citenet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>> 	..As will the phrase, "cryptography is like a gun...."  Joe User
>> 	won't see authentication as "like a gun" any more than his telephone
>> 	is "like a gun."

It is part of the cultural folklore to believe that  "The pen is mightier than the sword" 

Ciao

jfa

Jean-Francois Avon, Pierrefonds(Montreal) QC Canada
  JFA Technologies, R&D physicists & engineers
  Instrumentation & control, LabView programming.
PGP keys: http://w3.citenet.net/users/jf_avon
     and: http://bs.mit.edu:8001/pks-toplev.html
PGP ID:C58ADD0D:529645E8205A8A5E F87CC86FAEFEF891 
PGP ID:5B51964D:152ACCBCD4A481B0 254011193237822C






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 08:49:18 -0700 (PDT)
To: ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home)
Subject: Re: Why are you bouncing my mail to Cypherpunks?
In-Reply-To: <199805050908.EAA02726@manifold.algebra.com>
Message-ID: <199805051548.LAA03287@users.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In <199805050908.EAA02726@manifold.algebra.com>, on 05/05/98 
   at 04:08 AM, ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home) said:

>The antispam assholes suddenly blocked domain ix.netcom.com.

>(an amazing thing to do, all in all, and shows how far away from reality
>can people be carried out by religion)

>It turned out that sendmail at our mail relay site was ckecking  their
>"blackhole DNS database".

>I deleted all the rules that refer to them and now things seem to be OK.

>I am sorry for your troubles, Bill.  Thanks for letting me know.

Well in all fairness I filter out netcom.com messages (I do have an
exception for Bill). With the exception of Bill's posts netcom is right up
there with aol, compuserve, and a few others where if it's not spam it's
some crap from the clue-impaired.

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgp.html
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: "Do your parents *know* you are Ramones?" - Ms. Togar

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Charset: cp850
Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: listmaster@extensis.com
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 12:25:05 -0700 (PDT)
To: undisclosed-recipients:;
Subject: Get Edgy with Extensis PhotoFrame
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Corvus Corvax" 
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 12:25:35 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: The Borg Arrive
Message-ID: <19980505192502.20297.qmail@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Eric Cordian writes:

> Beware the Borg.  Coming soon to a neighborhood store near you.

I was recently asked to produce a drivers license in order to exchange a 
pair of long johns, paid for in cash. I asked why. "Store policy" was 
the reply. I asked why it was store policy, and the cashier responded 
with a hostile stare and exchanged the underwear for me.

Along the same lines, try refusing to give your zip code when asked at a 
register. Evidently some stores now simply cannot process a transaction 
without it. It's good for a laugh if you're bored. Borged?


571830573294323629934765012348436263285853260687657402192238

Corvus Corvax

324908584730535672342307543875016719214012473014020239437239


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: TruthMonger 
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 13:01:37 -0700 (PDT)
To: Sunder 
Subject: First, they came for the morons... / Re: Blizzard Gets Sued For Snooping On Gamers
In-Reply-To: <354E42A8.6C422A1A@brainlink.com>
Message-ID: <354F70C6.4182@algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Sunder wrote: 
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Salvatore Denaro 
> ---  Blizzard Gets Sued For Snooping On Gamers ---
>  Game developer Blizzard Entertainment is being sued for unlawful
> business practices, stemming from the revelation that the company's
> hot-selling new StarCraft snoops through players' hard drives and
> e-mails information to the company over the Internet.
> 
> http://www.techweb.com/news/story/TWB19980430S0015

But Blizzard defends the trap door, saying it was
meant to determine if certain players unable to log
onto the company's multiplayer gaming site,
Battle.Net, were using pirated software.

  And I've got a trap door into all Government computers to
determine if they have pirated copies of my letters to mom.
Nothing wrong with that, eh?

Besides Driscoll, most players interviewed by
TechWeb said they were not bothered by Blizzard's
actions. "The only people who were affected by this
were the morons who stole the game," said Jesse
Giles, in Houston. "As soon as you steal the game,
you're committing an illegal act."

  "First, they came for the morons who stole the game, and
I was a moron with a legal copy, so I didn't speak up..."

Nick Fox, of Waukesha, Wisc., agreed, saying credit
card companies hold large amounts of personal
information without legal liability. "I believe there are
more major invasions of privacy than them finding out
our real names, and everyone should chill," he said.

  And if Dad is already bungholing you,then it's no big deal
if Uncle Bob takes sloppy seconds, eh?

  Blizzard implies that they are only sticking it in 'a little
bit, but it seems to make sense that, once they have it in, they
might want to 'wiggle it around' a bit, to find out if the user
has pirated copies of their other software. And when they get
together for drinks with their buddies at other corporations,
I imagine they share information so they can keep track of who
the real whores are. Next thing you know, they're carpooling
to gangbang the users, to save on corporate gas.
  No doubt advancing technology will allow them to build a 'profile'
of software thieves, enabling them to kick in the doors of poor
niggers and cheap Jews and take them to special camps where they
can be 'reeducated'.
  And Nick and Jesse Moron will explain to us how only people who
fit the Piracy Profile have reason to worry, and that the SoftWare
internment camps are much nicer than the Credit internment camps.

  The 'upside' of Blizzard's snooping is that if the user has their
credit card information on the computer, then Blizzard can send and
charge them for future updates automatically, saving the user from
having to waste time deciding whether or not they want it.

  I'm beginning to think that AOL is the disease, and DC is only a
symptom.

TruthMongrel





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 15:40:31 -0700 (PDT)
To: whgiii@invweb.net (William H. Geiger III)
Subject: Re: Why are you bouncing my mail to Cypherpunks?
In-Reply-To: <199805051548.LAA03287@users.invweb.net>
Message-ID: <199805052238.RAA08070@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text


William H. Geiger III wrote:
>    at 04:08 AM, ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home) said:
> >The antispam assholes suddenly blocked domain ix.netcom.com.
> 
> >(an amazing thing to do, all in all, and shows how far away from reality
> >can people be carried out by religion)
> 
> >It turned out that sendmail at our mail relay site was ckecking  their
> >"blackhole DNS database".
> 
> >I deleted all the rules that refer to them and now things seem to be OK.
> 
> >I am sorry for your troubles, Bill.  Thanks for letting me know.
> 
> Well in all fairness I filter out netcom.com messages (I do have an
> exception for Bill). With the exception of Bill's posts netcom is right up
> there with aol, compuserve, and a few others where if it's not spam it's
> some crap from the clue-impaired.

_You_ can do it. _Cypherpuks@algebra.com_ cannot do it.

	- Igor.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Xcott Craver 
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 16:28:53 -0700 (PDT)
To: mgraffam@mhv.net
Subject: Re: Explaining crypto to people (was Re: A new Swiss banking novel)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Tue, 5 May 1998 mgraffam@mhv.net wrote:

> Having said that, I don't really think it is necessary to go around
> saying "Crypto is like a bomb" either. Crypto _can_ be used as a defensive
> or an offensive weapon, however the same technology can be used for
> authentication and digital cash and loads of other neat stuff. I'll
> preach about all of them, especially those that I personally have an
> interest in.. authentication, digital cash and secure email. 

	Which is my point.  Crypto can be seen as a weapon, just like 
	it can be seen as a very strong safe.  The public doesn't have
	a very strong conception of what this crypto stuff _is_, and
	so they're going to suck a lot more than you intended out of 
	whatever analogy you pick.  If you say "bomb," they'll think
	"bomb."  And this generates misconceptions.

> Certain analogies are useful in certain instances. When useful to
> make the analogy to firearms, it _can_ be an excellent one.. so can
> a lock. 
> 
> Last time I checked though, padlocks aren't a hot topic for debate as
> to their being banned. Crypto, in certain aspects, is.

	Again, my point.  Padlocks and safes are *not* under the gun,
	so to speak.  People will not see crypto regulation as silly
	if they keep getting fed bomb and gun analogies.  They'd think
	it was damned silly if they got padlock and safe analogies.
	Remember, many people are still fuzzy about just what this stuff 
	is that the govt. is trying to regulate.  

	I mean, when's the last time you saw someone defending their
	choice of buying a padlock?  Or saying that, "look, a padlock
	_can_ be used by criminals, but I'm a responsible adult."
	Nobody thinks of evil terrorists when they see a padlock on
	the store shelf, and that's the way it should be with crypto.

> > 	It is chillingly naive to defend an argument on the grounds
> > 	that when dissected logically it is a true statement.  
> 
> Are you suggesting that I should defend and argument, when looked at
> logically is false?

	Not at all.  Nobody's suggesting that anyone lie.  Rather:
	
> One can take many true statements and present them in a way to
> make things seem to be what they are not.

	...and one can do this by accident as well.  I believe that
	telling people crypto is "like a gun" is exactly this.  And
	this is why I feel the firearm analogies should be dropped
	when explaining crypto to people.  

> > 	Dropping a flawed analogy isn't covering the truth.  Rather,
> > 	keeping the analogy distorts the truth.
> 
> See, I don't think that the analogy to weaponry is all that far off.
> The exact same software that could let me sign my documents or
> order neat stuff over the web can use the exact same algorithms
> for transmitting designs for bombs.

	Then envelopes are weapons.  Stamps are weapons.  Fax
	machines are weapons.

	Now, I know, you're thinking, "yes, technically, they are."
	But remember, again, that we're talking about explaining
	the concept of crypto to people who are pretty much new
	to it.  They have no idea how literal your analogy is.
	The phrase, "the pen is mightier than the sword"
	would have a wholly different effect on people if they
	had no idea what a "pen" was.

  .,-:::::   :::.         ....:::::: @niu.edu -- http://www.math.niu.edu/~caj/
,;;;'````'   ;;`;;     ;;;;;;;;;````
[[[         ,[[ '[[,   ''`  `[[.     "I'd like a large order of FiboNachos."
$$$        c$$$cc$$$c ,,,    `$$      "Okay sir, that'll cost as much as a
`88bo,__,o, 888   888,888boood88    small order and a medium order combined."
  "YUMMMMMP"YMM   ""` "MMMMMMMM"  _____________________________________________




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Jean-Francois Avon" 
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 20:59:49 -0700 (PDT)
To: "Cypherpunks" 
Subject: Re: Explaining crypto to people (was Re: A new Swiss banking novel)
Message-ID: <199805060405.AAA10956@cti06.citenet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Tue, 5 May 1998 18:28:46 -0500 (CDT), Xcott Craver wrote:

>Again, my point.  Padlocks and safes are *not* under the gun,
>	so to speak.  People will not see crypto regulation as silly
>	if they keep getting fed bomb and gun analogies.  They'd think
>	it was damned silly if they got padlock and safe analogies.

The analogy of crypto =  padlock lack something.

A padlock can *always* pried open.  A court order can always be issued to open it.
So Joe Enforcment will be on it's way with it's crowbars, liquid N2, saws and/or torches and do his 
duty.  It will be no loss of time to him.

Strong encryption is different.  No matter what Joe Enforcment try, the crypto lock won't give away 
(well, at least, this is what we assume here).  Working on it means just one thing: absolute waste 
of ressources.

AFA Joe Enforcement is concerned, a gun has some of the same potentiality: try to force it and 
you also risk an absolute waste of ressources.  From a human standpoint, it might look different, 
but if you make abstraction of human life (like most dictators do), some of the effects are similar.

Ciao

jfa




Jean-Francois Avon, Pierrefonds (Montreal), Canada
Unregistered Firearms in the hands of honest citizens: Liberty's Teeth
Strong Cryptographic tools in the hands of honest citizens: Liberty's Voice
PGP keys: http://bs.mit.edu:8001/pks-toplev.html
PGP ID:C58ADD0D:529645E8205A8A5E F87CC86FAEFEF891 
PGP ID:5B51964D:152ACCBCD4A481B0 254011193237822C






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 22:45:26 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: New restrictions on distributing the SFL
Message-ID: <4c7c7aa1394e1e7a898bb6d6b0097a0a@kapten.zoom.nu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


>Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 17:24:25 -0700
>To: imc-sfl@imc.org
>From: Paul Hoffman / IMC 
>Subject: New restrictions on distributing the SFL

I'm sorry to announce that the source code for the SFL has been removed
from the official site. It has been moved to a new site,
 that appears to be
export-controlled. You need a password to get the software from that site,
and the passwords are handed out by the US Department of Defense.

I'm personally embarssed that the government of my country enforces such
silly laws. I understand that many other countries have similar laws, but
that doesn't make me feel any better. I had hoped that the SFL would be the
beginning of sensibility on the part of the US government with respect to
cryptography distribution; I still have that hope for the future.

There are many people on this mailing list who are outside the US, and this
change in distribution may prevent you from getting the SFL. If other Web
sites appear that contain unofficial versions of the SFL and do not
restrict who can download from them, I will be happy to list those on the
IMC SFL page at . I would also like to list
links to cryptography packages that work with the SFL at our site.

--Paul Hoffman, Director
--Internet Mail Consortium







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 07:07:09 -0700 (PDT)
To: j orlin grabbe 
Subject: simplicity & found docket sheet
Message-ID: <35506D8B.6428@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Wednesday 5/6/98 7:29 AM

J Orlin Grabbe

Your new single-column format, I feel, has advantages over
the old three-column format. http://www.aci.net/kalliste/

1  Not as much scrolling as was required to read the three-column
   format.

2  When I copies material out of columns 2 or 3 to save in a file
   [orlin.txt, of course], I had to use the Auto-format in Word
   to collapse the leading blanks.

I am studying, by thinking, about how John Young has organized his
information and the simplicity of what Young has done.
http://www.jya.com/index.htm

Simplicity exudes brilliance.  And also, I am guessing, is key
to outstanding architectural designs.

I have some ideas about a 80c32, MASM, and Visual Basic Internet
forum I am mulling-over in my mind.  I am completing an 80c32
project.  

Then I need to revise my book.


http://www.apcatalog.com/cgi-bin/AP?ISBN=0125475705&LOCATION=US&FORM=FORM2

Publicity of this mess on Internet has helped book sales.

Today I am working on 

1  COMES NOW plaintiffs Payne and Morales [Plaintiffs] to exercise their

rights under the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, Rule 52. Findings by
the 

Court; Judgment on Partial Findings

  (b) Amendment. On a party's motion filed no later than 10 days after 
  entry of judgment, the court may amend its findings--or make
additional 
  findings--and may amend the judgment accordingly. The motion may 
  accompany a motion for a new trial under Rule 59. When findings of
fact 
  are made in actions tried without a jury, the sufficiency of the 
  evidence supporting the findings may be later questioned whether or
not 
  in the district court the party raising the question objected to the 
  findings, moved to amend them, or moved for partial findings.

And I see  this morning at 

http://www.jya.com/whp-10usca.htm

that John Young found the docket sheet on my case on Internet which
Tenth
Circuit court clerks Fisher and Hoecker refused to send me.

USCA: Payne v. Sandia National Lab Docket         May 5, 1998

I think I see WRITTEN EVIDENCE, now published on Internet, that court
clerks and 
federal judges have committed Title 18 felony violations of law.

Morales and I are not above filing criminal complaint affidavits when we
possess
WRITTEN EVIDENCE of guilt.

We all must remember the sage words of defendant Harvey Brewster,

	If it is not written-down, then it didn't happen.

Sandia/EEOC, fortunately for me, left a WRITTEN TRAIL of evidence of
wrongdoing.

This mess should be settled 

   http://www.jya.com/whp043098.htm

so that we can all move on to more constructive projects.  

Before it gets WORSE.  Perhaps megatons worse?

Allahu akbar
bill






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Bruises that won't heal" 
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 11:26:48 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: My Philosophy on Life (Please direct all feedback to my email, not to the group)
Message-ID: <199805061826.LAA08914@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


NOTE:  This is probably one of the most unstructured and free-flowing
papers that I have
ever written.  Take it with a grain of salt and two advils.

In the world we live today, it is safest to be either at the top or insane.
 In a story I read last semester out of my ultra-thick Literature textbook,
this was first introduced to me.  One of the leading characters, an
educated man, felt the "sorrow of sanity."  It's true that in this world,
we all want meaningful lives.  Not only do we want to be successful, but we
need to be happy.  The real question of life lies in what brings us
happiness.  So, as you read this, keep the goal of happiness in mind.

First of all, I'd like to talk about my influences throughout my life. 
Television was a large part of my life in the early years, which I am sad
to say has shaped a very minute amount of my mind.  The television, or our
"Vast Wasteland," is a horrible medium  that has too much to say about so
much.  In my eyes, television has failed to serve the "public's interest,
convenience, and necessity."  It has too much of a handle on the world
today, and people blindly accept most/all of what they see.  You may tell
yourself that you are not one of those who conform to the views of the
television, but even witty shows such as South Park and insanely stupid
shows like Beavis and Butthead shaped our lives.  We used to laugh when
Butthead would slap Beavis, and we'd get excited when Beavis would yell 
"Fire!  Fire!"  A statement which was later proven to be a cause for a
young child to light a fatal fire in his own house.  As we grow older, our
minds begin to become more autonomous and move away from such ignorance and
mindless influence, but the way that we are brought up as children will
always be a big influence on our lives.  And since those funny Roadrunner
and Coyote cartoons were there and influenced us as children, a very small
part carries over.  A happy childhood or a sad childhood shapes what we can
become as adolescent youth.  Most of us undergo something sad and traumatic
as children.  Mine came around the age of 14 when my sister and father use
to argue constantly.  Hatred affects us, even when it isn't directly
between us and someone else.  Anyway, this traumatic experience, which also
lasts longer with some, is a major cause for our disbelief and our lack of
immediate trust in everything.  It causes us to think twice about
everything, and it causes us to worry.  We are burned by everybody
throughout our lives.  Remember the first time that our parents tricked us
into something and how angry we were because we were misled?  Remember when
you came home to find your pet, who was one of your best friends, gone
forever and never to be seen again?  Maybe you came home to find that a
really close relative of yours died and somehow you felt betrayed by either
God, or the doctors, or somehow you felt responsible.  Maybe you still
blame yourself for your parent's divorce.  Either way, these are the major
climaxes of our childhood which also carry over.  You see  the jerks out in
the world, and you see those who easily betray, and sometimes you wonder
who first betrayed them, or who manipulated their minds to be so
uncompassionate.  It's sad that everyone has to learn these things at a
young age where we are all so susceptible to misbeliefs and conjectures of
the corporate world.  But, unfortunately, we learn by mistake and that is
human nature. 

This leads me into the thoughts of how human nature can kill a spirit.  We
all like to be liked, and we all need to be loved by somebody.  A heavy
heart appears where love is less spent.  And the nature of hate (which I
believe is not human nature but more a learned emotion) can kill a spirit. 
And the feeling of being disliked, betrayed, hell, even when we hate
someone, that all can kill us.  But this doesn't prove how human nature can
kill a spirit.  I can say this is done because of the way that we naturally
react to so many things.  For example, we learn to hate because we are
first hated or betrayed.   People can be so cold to us, and we take all
that as a part of us (of course, as children) and we turn it into rage and
hate.  When a child is molested by an adult, he/she can instantly reject
the members of his/her offending sex.  They can even lose trust in their
parents (especially if the parent is the offender).  It's a very sad thing
that this is, and it damages so deeply in the soul and heart.  What I'd
like to discuss now is the cause that many people indulge in.

Alcoholism is a terrible disease.  I don't say that because I think that
drinking is wrong.  I believe that irresponsible drinking is wrong.  It's
true that alcoholics don't begin as heavy drinkers, but I believe that
alcoholics form because of drinking due to depression.  Those kids who are
neglected and don't have so many great friends as children may seek refuge
in being drunk or high.  The position I take on marijuana versus. alcohol
is this.  I don't consider anything I can grow in my backyard a drug.  And
marijuana isn't nearly addictive as alcohol because you can only become
psychologically addicted.   We've all experienced mental addictions (seeing
the Titanic movie twenty some times would probably constitute.)  Sex is
more addictive than marijuana is (in my opinion.)  Anyway, alcohol is like
anything else in the ways that it can be used responsibly but is unlike
anything else because it can cause people to rape, kill, and do things a
sane person would never dream of.  So, people, I urge you to drink
responsibly.  Don't drink out of ruins of depression, because it will not
delay problems or solve them.  That is the problem with the world today. 
We don't solve problems.  We just fix them.  Anyway, as Michael Stipe says
in Everybody Hurts "Don't throw your hands/hang on/take comfort in your
friends." 

My second major concern is pornography.  This is some major bull shit. 
It's corporate people who, as the government  allows them to, take
advantage of people's human urges to cheat on their wives or whatnot. 
Sure, you may believe that I am taking things way to far.  It's only a
naked chick on a page.  But when you find someone special and you want to
have sex with her, she's only the next step up from a bottle of lotion and
a couple of magazines.  Porn-freaks begin to see women as objects, argue
with spouses and dates for insignificant reasons.  Nothing good comes from
pornography of any type.  I guess it's semi-reasonable if a couple want to
use videos together and so, but leave this exploitation alone and I don't
think you'll regret it.  Realize that so much of the downfall of America is
just an expense to the success of someone else's success. 

Now, my personal feelings on how America works.  Government is corrupt. 
It's goal is to serve the people with their own interests.  This is a
farce.  First of all, America is not a democracy.  In a true democracy,
each person voices their opinion on every subject.  Since we have such a
huge number of people living in our country, this is impossible.  So we
elect representatives who we think will best serve in the government
according to our own interests.  But this rarely happens.  Sure, those
stupid bills that would never get passed (i.e.. drop the gun carrying age
to 14) never do pass.  Those are common sense actions.  But real
controversial issues (abortion, education, health care, death penalty,
etc.) are very hard to set actions on because it affects so many people and
the politicians have so many decisions to make.  But I cannot say that our
government is a failure.  They would protect me if Cuba shot missiles at my
home state tonight, and they'll give glue my arm back on if it happens to
fall off on the way to school tomorrow and I had no way to pay for it.  So,
we can all argue about what the government is doing, but we must all also
be thankful that our government isn't shooting us as we walk down the
street.  Anyway, the government isn't the problem so much in America today.
 It's the marketplace.  Commercial business has made more laws than the
government, and it's the big corporate giants who will decide what is the
next biggest fashion. 

Corporate America is the root of all the trouble I can see in America. 
Let's go back to my examples above about the stupid junk with pornos and
drugs and such.  Pornography, I will restate, is worthless and damaging to
the United States.  Now, let's all ask ourselves where this garbage is
piped in from.  Corporate America.  How could it be, you ask?  Simply put,
most of the people in the United States of America (which never really seem
united) will only do things if it makes them money and or it makes them
happy.  Now, most of the time, we won't even do things if it makes us
happy.  We'd all be happy to turn the channel when Barney the Money-Hungry
Education Dinosaur comes on, but if the remote is on top of the television,
we might just take a few minutes for the show to really get on our nerves
before  we'll get up to change it.  That 15 second walk can kill you,
especially if Corporate America has had you up since 5 in the morning. 
But, hold on, the kids want to watch Barney.  Darn it!  You've been slaving
all day at work to raise enough money for those kids to wear expensive
clothes and to buy $30 Barney videos, and now they want to pry into your
time alone?  No, you yell at the kids to go watch another television or to
go outside so you can have some peace and quiet.  Geez, what's daddy so
angry about?  Could it be that he's overworked and stressed, and that he
never spends time with us because all of his spare time is wrapped up in
getting rest for work the next day?  Oh, it's no big worry, because daddy
has all day Saturday off to wash the car, plant some flowers, pay the
bills, cook dinner for us, call back all those people who have called
during the week and to go shopping... all the things he enjoys the most. 
Maybe this summer, daddy can take a week or two to take us to Dinghy world
and spend so much money on us!  Then he can come back and work for two
months to pay off those pesky credit card companies for the thousands of
dollars he spent.  And while daddy is at work, those nice guys on
television can tell us about all the neat things to buy.  Yes, daddy will
love the looks on our faces when we open up our happy meals (what ever
happened to those cool boxes?) and we get our My Little Pony dolls.  But we
can't have just one pony!  We need the whole set!  Let's get them all
daddy.

		A heart that's full up like a landfill.
		A job that slowly kills you.
		Bruises that won't heal.
		You look so tired and happy.
		Bring down the government.
		They don't speak for us.
		I'll take a quiet life.  A handshake.  Some carbon monoxide.
		No alarms and no surprises.
		No alarms and no surprises.  Please.
		Silent.  Silent.
		This is my final fit.
		My final bellyache.
		Such a pretty house.
		Such a pretty garden.

"Are they getting on your nerves?"  I asked the lady who sat behind the
counter.  She opened up her purse and laid a twenty dollar bill on the
counter, got up and left.  The kids shot me with a water pistol and ran out
the door.  They piled into mommy's car as the lady broke down crying.  Her
rusted station wagon didn't have a back window, but it had a
semi-translucent tarp to keep out the wind and rain.  And then she dropped
her keys.  She wiped the tears from her eyes like lakes from the plains,
picked up her keys, and got in the car.  Never again will I see that woman,
but what she gave me, I wish I could return tenfold. 

 That really didn't happen to me, but it speaks words to me.  Some of you
may not understand that, but what it is basically is saying is that the guy
who spoke to the woman gained something inside from her pain.  She was
barren and empty, poor.  She gave him a 20 dollar thought, and he wished he
could give her 200 dollars.

It's all Corporate America's fault.  Here we could have a woman who went to
college, but couldn't accept a job because she couldn't afford to move.  So
she works days to pay for a tiny apartment, an expensive baby-sitter, and
for her three kids to live.  Where's the husband?  Dead maybe?  Maybe he
was an alcoholic and she kicked him out (not an uncommon thing).  Welcome
to Corporate America.  In their world, you don't have to bring anything to
survive, but they would like it better if you could leave some stuff
behind.  Otherwise, they'll take it away.  Let's talk about this. 
Creativity can be destroyed from having a job.  Yes, crew, by getting a
job, your giving in (not completely, but somewhat) to corporate America. 
You just have to find a paying job that you totally enjoy.  If you do that,
then you'll never work a day in your life. 

For me, I'll be a train engineer.  I'd really like to be in a successful
music band.  We'd never sell out to anybody.  It'd be great.  I used to
really, really want to be a bird.  I'd want to fly around with a knapsack
on.  Inside, I'd have a walkman on that continuously played A-ha's Take On
Me and R.E.M.'s Losing My Religion.  I'd also have about 20 peanut butter
and jelly sandwiches.  That would be my perfect life.  

I feel like I've said so much about everything, but I haven't even began to
scratch the surface of some hot topics.  This is your preface to my
thoughts.  I'll do addendums as soon as they appear.

Addendum I - Microsoft as a Giant Wart

I was listening to Rush Limbaugh today, and he was talking about how
Microsoft puts this stupid new web browser on every computer no matter what
program you install.  For example, if you install a word processor it will
still install Microsoft Internet Explorer 4.0 (a stupid browser) on your
desktop.  Well, this is junk.  I think that computers are a waste of time,
especially in this time and day.  They should never have advanced past
pocket calculators, and mainly because they are too convenient.  Too many
people spend nice sunny days sitting in front of the Internet downloading
golf images, or pornography, or whatever.  Forget that.  I think that
people should sell their computers and buy a set of golf clubs.  Maybe you
should take that thousand dollars and get a pet and take a weekend trip. 
Computers are nothing but a headache.  Don't believe me?  Test this against
so many statistics and  experience.  Ask that accountant neighbor of yours
if he'd rather go for a swim in a pool or figure out some corporate tax
return information.  Ask that computer programmer how many times he's
visited another city on a trip that was only for pleasure.  Then, ask the
Park Rangers how much they love being outdoors.  You're bound to find that
most people hate technology in a raw form.  The most beautiful things on
this earth are found in nature, and not on some computer screen or in some
magazine.  Anyway, back to Microsoft.  Bill Gates is only partly to blame
for Microsoft's reputation.  Of course, he has a lot of pull in the company
since he is CEO and chairman, but realize that Microsoft is a huge company
and that he can't possibly oversee every individual aspect of it.  Sure,
they are accused of unfair trade practices, but a certain percentage of
that is acceptable (not every company can please everyone all the time.) 
But they do an awful lot of bad stuff (I can't give examples here because
they are too complex to explain), but a lot of that comes from regional
offices, etc.  So, Microsoft is a monopoly because they own almost every
aspect of computers today.  You almost have to use their software in
everything you want done professionally.  And a lot of computer users will
say that they really don't like that.  I have two options for you.  The
first one is, gulp, buy a MacIntosh.  The second (which I highly recommend)
is to sell your computer and buy a guitar. 

Addendum II - The Internet as a Tool

I'll grant that the Internet is an unboundless tool that almost any company
can incorporate.  Scientists can use it to collect data over the world,
share information, and express ideas.  Doctors can use it to find out more
about diseases by reading up-to-date information from around the world. 
But these noteworthy actions rarely occur.  Anyone who goes on the Internet
would have to agree that it really is a not-so-needed "tool" but more of a
world-wide haven for computer geeks.  It's mostly full of perverts who'll
have cyber-sex (cyber-sex is, by definition, when two people type actions
and thoughts to each other while mutually masturbating.  Sounds fun, eh?) 
Every America On-Line user knows what it is like to receive 20 messages per
day about free sex sites and porno distribution, or how to get rich quick. 
Nobody is safe from advertising and spam e-mail on the Internet.  In my
humble opinion, the Internet has "sold out."  It's just like your favorite
underground rock group.  Sure, you loved them as a local group and when
they had their own name.  But now they are playing wherever they can get
paid the most, etc.  It sucks.  The Internet used to be an elite
association of computer users (geeks and the normal people, too.)  But
Corporate America, namely Microsoft, has tried to put a footstep on each
web page out there.  For example, go to a search engine on the Internet (I
suggest Yahoo! or excite.com.)  They all practically do the same thing, so
it doesn't matter.  Instantly, you will see some  advertisement on that
page.  Now, in the search field, type in the name of your favorite band. 
Click search and wait for the responses.  Click on any one of several web
pages that will surely be devoted to the worship of that band.  You will
more than likely see a banner for some sponsor (who pays them a dime for
each person who clicks on it).  See?  Your independent down-home web pages
have been stamped, logged, and dated for Corporations to see.  Check this
out.  Go to www.microsoft.com.  There?  Microsoft now has your name, city,
state, and e-mail address.  Keep this up, and you can expect some e-mail
from some company wanting to sell you something really soon.  Sure, some
web pages don't really want your personal information, but they'd love to
sell it to some other company who would.  Welcome to the Internet.  A place
of boredom, dull information, sex, lies, and overweight people who still
seem to fit into a size 4.

Addendum III - Music as an Influence

Music is one of the most extraordinary mediums in the world.  It's a unique
language that is universal and ancient.  I'm sure that some idiot (the
first man, and even the modern man) sat on a rock and beat a club on the
ground and thought, hey, I should for a band.  So now we got four poor
musicians who'll do anything for a gig.  They're making music that they all
love and life is grand.  These are good guys.  These are the guys that have
a heart for something that they love and they won't let the world stand in
between them and their dreams.  It's the same way with almost all artists. 
Nobody can really enter the world of art expecting to be a success or a
failure.  But what every person should know is that they can enter the
world of art and be prepared to grow and learn from what happens.  I know
that some of the simple photographs that I've seen in my life have changed
the perspective on things for me.  And the songs I hear can most definitely
have a major impact on my thoughts and actions.  It's simple to see this in
everybody.  You know how that fast song with lots of energy comes on, and
before you know it, you're driving 65 in a 30, "feeling the flow.  Working
it."  It's a great feeling.  Something that is irreplaceable (but
definitely not not exceedable.)  Radiohead, R.E.M., and The Velvet
Underground are probably the only bands which I've ever felt really
connected to.  They all deliver a great message to me, and send that
message on wondrous instrumental works of art.  R.E.M. gave me the
advantage of feeling without experience.  Lou Reed's simple minded
complexities were great wisdom that I think of daily and is really involved
in a lot of "What Goes On."  (That's a song title to a Velvet Underground
song, by the way.)  And lastly, Radiohead has shown me the world about.  It
conquered my fears and it has really been a guide in the direction of my
life.  I understand through that music what may lie in the future.  It
really woke me up to quick thinking that my life can be what I make of it. 
No one can hold me back from doing what I really want, but some of us 
aren't quick to realize that we can hold ourselves back if we don't act on
our judgments and if we don't get motivated to do what we want.  I'd
recommend those three CD's to any person in the world.  Get all the live
Velvet Underground you can and listen to each work like it was an important
message coming over the telegraph.  Write those words down, read them over
and over, then hang them on the walls of your bathroom.  Keep a poster of
Michael Stipe in your bedroom and stare at it while you listen to R.E.M. 
And watch the nightly news after you've listened to Radiohead and apply
your common sense to a world of chaos.  "It's a Man Ray kind of sky.  Let
me show you what I can do with it."

Addendum IV - Calvin and Hobbes

This cartoon is so great to me that I just had to mention it here.  The
humor, wit, and philosophy that Bill Watterson so ingeniously portrays
through his cartoon characters is unparalleled in my opinion.  Calvin in a
six year old boy who knows the perils of elementary school and having
parents, and daydreams about dinosaurs in rocket ships.  If you've never
read any of the work, you're missing out on a life-changing set of books. 
I used to anxiously await each and every new release of the next book. 
It's so great.  Anyway, back to our characters.  Calvin is a witty, scary,
typical six year old boy.  His awesomeness lies in his incredible knowledge
of things he knows nothing about.  He picks up a great vocabulary from
television and books, but is a terrible student in school.  His stuffed
tiger, Hobbes, is the wise leader of the two (although Calvin claims to be)
and is very smart.  The conversations the two have and the experiences they
share open different doors in my mind and soul.  From downright hilarious
strips to sad ones that pull your heart into Calvin's, I'm sure that you
won't regret reading anything that Bill Watterson has to put out.  I also
admire Bill Watterson because he didn't sell out.  He fought syndication as
long as he could, and quit writing Calvin and Hobbes because of the
problems he had with the Corporate monsters who wanted Calvin T-shirts,
stickers, figurines, etc.  Screw that.  Calvin and Hobbes will always have
an eternally open field to gambol in inside of my heart. 

Addendum V - Love

Love is a feeling that people feel when they have a special devotion
towards someone.  I am flawed in the fact that I must always feel loved by
a special someone.  It's not so bad, I guess, but loneliness is an empty
feeling which I hate.  A relationship at a young age (the only thing I'm
experienced at) can be fulfilling or detrimental to a person's happiness. 
Some teens grow up all there life on their own and can depend on themselves
solely.  Others of us need a special friend or girl/boyfriend to help us
along the way.  I think I'm that latter, but the girlfriend/boyfriend thing
isn't like having an extra set of arms.  To me, having  a relationship with
someone else can be either an escape where you can throw your blues into
the air and forget about them, or it is a place of comfort where you can
get help with your problems.  Whatever it is at that certain aspect of
time, a very special bridge can build between your heart and that
significant other.  As a young person, it is necessary that we recognize
that life is long and that this relationship most likely isn't one of
eternal reward.  But, we put our hearts into it strongly and we hope that
we never part from that special person.  It's easy to get hurt in a
relationship, and a lot of times, that pain will carry into other
relationships further down the line.  Some people choose to take dating
lightly, and to make high school relationships just fun little dates. 
That's fine also.  It might be best because it keeps hearts from breaking. 
But, I must admit that I need to be loved (just like everybody else does.) 
And I can't keep myself from falling for girls who care, are adorable, and
who are fun to be with. 

The downfall that I've so hardly been hit with is the haunting of ex-dates.
 I broke up with a girl after 2 years, and let me tell you, sometimes it
comes back to haunt me.  I can't express this in words, you'll have to
experience for yourself.  But trust me when I say that you won't stop
thinking about him/her just because you broke up.  You compare stupid
things (and I mean stupid) to what he or she did or was like.  And it's so
annoying.  You'll learn to despise it. 

Addendum VI - Anti-Technology (and what to do about it)

Technology should be feared.  Not for what it is, but for what it can
become.  Trains, planes, and automobiles were only the opening of a new
gate that will open to endless technological takeover.  In my opinion, we
are creating, building, and capitalizing on something that may eventually
lead to our downfall.  The world in which we have created has resulted in
laziness, etc.  What's technology?  First of all, we need to clearly get in
your head what my definition of technology is.  Technology is the
inventions that do not use a man's energy and convert it, but use energy
from the world.  Often times, it's wasted energy.  Nuclear weapons,
toasters, and other machines that we have so great a deal of are a waste of
time and money.  It's funny that I say these things because I am a big user
of technology.  I have a TV, a VCR, a telephone, a toaster, a car, a
computer, and even a air conditioner.  How's that for comfort?  Yes, I do
contradict myself, but I could survive in a hut with a fireplace just as
well.  It doesn't matter if I did live in a hut either.  It's worthless to
set that example without first making clear what I was trying to prove. 
Maybe if this ever gets published into a nationwide best-seller, I can
start an au naturale community out west somewhere. 

What can I say to do about technology?  Succumb.  It's all  relentless. 
Besides, rebellion isn't in style this generation. 

Addendum VII - The Continuing Trilogy of Intelligent Music

The intelligence of the music by the Talking Heads and David Byrne is
overwhelming.  The spoken words of Thom Yorke of Radiohead can rinse your
head out.  The wonderful emotion stored in Pink Floyd's music is wondrous
too.  And here is where the trilogy began.  Although I don't consider
myself any great genius about any of these bands, they all have a link.  In
the 70's, Pink Floyd was a musical takeover.  It started this all.  I was
considering adding The Velvet Underground and Lou Reed to this, but they
don't qualify.  They didn't have such a common theme.  Pink Floyd created
the movie, "The Wall," and it was theirs.  In the 1980's, David Byrne and
The Talking Heads added a great amount of genius and through music,
mesmorized what has become an elite and intelligent bunch of listeners. 
Byrne's movie, "True Stories," made me realize what this was all leading
to.  I don't completely understand it myself, and I think it's up to each
individual to decide and to keep watching.  Radiohead has continued by
creating movie with a scary tone because of their view of the world.  They
have yet to create a movie, but we must remain eager for them to do so. 
It's a must.  This addendum won't make any sense to you unless you see the
two movies and listen to quite a bit of the music of each band.  And listen
to the words are fit them to your view of the world and combine all that
muddy water to the dirt that I put in this.  How's that for deep, dark
waters?
Addendum VIII - Photography

Photography, I just want to mention, is a wonderful medium where art can be
captured.  Without it, all of us who can't paint or draw would be artless. 
There is no such thing as a bad artwork.  People who tell you that your
artwork is junk have a hole in their spirit or don't understand. 
Everything in the world can symbolize something else.  Just hold onto your
artworks.  Feeble as such, a cheap blanket from your childhood can bring
tears to your eyes, and a 25 year old photo of a high school love can make
you appreciate times you've had and make memories wondrous.  Taking classes
on photography can be great.  Learning to master the tools is necessary to
fully, completely understand anything.  But getting a grade on photos for
content is damaging.  I don't believe that you can grade anything like
that.  I respect all photographers because it's more and more becoming a
rarely used art medium and it should be just as respected as painting and
etc.  Emotional outlets and ideas can't be graded, and it is dangerous to
manipulate, bias, or fend against that.  It's like trying to stop hot water
from pouring out of an open faucet. 

Addendum IX - Great Quotations
 
"They can't tell the difference between working and not working.  There's
no concept of weekends anymore."
			- True Stories

"The only thing to fear is fearlessness.  The bigger the weapons, the
greater the fear."
			- Michael Stipe (Hyena)







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSqncrs 
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 22:26:07 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Spam
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hi cyphers, I'm back.  A certain 'nobody' invited me!  ;-)


Apparently only as far back as 1993, the definition of the word "spam" from
the on-line jargon file was this (according to the New Hackers Dictionary) -

spam [from the MUD community] vt. To crash a program by over-running a fixed-
size buffer with excessively large input data.  See also Buffer Overflow,
Overrun Screw, Smash the Stack.


Obviously that definition has changed since then.  I've seen it go from that
to repetitive commercial advertising, and I've seen it used to brand someone
as an outcast of a list for future removal simply because a small minority
didn't like what that person had said (so it was being used at that time to
mean 'objectional material').

And in all the times I've seen the word fly, there has never been anykind of
volume that would come close to overblowing the forum's mechanical
capabilities.


So, I'm curious as to who/what dictated the meaning of that to change so
drasticly.  Write me in private if it's off-subject (and yes, you can write me
anonomously if you don't want a response. :-) )


Also, new address for my website -

Stan,
Stan and the Sequencers
http://members.aol.com/StanSqncrs/




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Toto 
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 01:18:29 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Dog Log - SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS!!!
Message-ID: <35516EC7.3EAF@sk.sympatico.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Dog Log - SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS!!!
_______________________________________

From: "William H. Geiger III"  
To: Eric Otot   
Cc: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net 
Subject: Re: The Borg Arrive 
 
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- 
 
Eric Otot said: 
 
>So I have the choice of going somewhere inconvenient to
>shop, shopping at Rite Aid and paying full MSRP for every
>single item, which hardly any store sells stuff for, or
>getting the incentivized mandatory/voluntary barcoded card,
>and letting the Borg link me with everything I buy, down 
>to each and every sheet of toilet paper I use to 
>wipe my butt with. 
>  
>Beware the Borg.  Coming soon to a neighborhood store near
>you. 
>  
>P.S. I went with the card.  
So lets get this straight: 
 
    You don't like a companies efforts to gather marketing
statistics on its customers but due to your own *sloth* you
not only continue to shop there but you also fill out the
forms for them to track every purchase that you make! 

 
    I am sorry but as hard as I try I can not generate the
least bit of sympathy for you. Sheeple are sheeple because
they act in the manner that you just outlined in your
message. Bitch, whine and moan that the store tracks what
brand of toilet paper they buy but if in exchange for $0.10
off 4 rolls and they will give up their entire life story. 
 
    Sheep get sheered because they don't know any better,
sheeple get sheered because they deserve it. 
 
 ------------------------------------------------------------ 
William H. Geiger III  http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii 

Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0 
 
Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice 
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail. 
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgp.html 
------------------------------------------------------------

  
Tag-O-Matic: I use OS/2 2.0 and I don't care who knows! 
 
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p7nMAhdZDk1zsgiiUhSzp3ZcREcFIy8Ybnu6u4xYf/wgueg26cW+JE8A5iyeJMOz 
6dHT6oBT2IE= 
=u1mU 
-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- 
 


  God bless WillyG III!
  Eric Otot wrote a reply to WGII's caustic post which
gave a perfectly reasonable account of his preference for
picking which 'battles' were worth his while to engage in,
and which would be merely pissing in the wind of the
masses rushing by to save their dime for the GreyHound
restroom.
  I chose to omit EricO's reply and spell-correct WGIII's,
in order to preserve the point made by his post, without
lessening the post's effect by letting it be obvious that
WG3 is an uneducated, redneck, barefoot hillbilly who has
no 'manors'...
  I did so for the simple reason that Eric Otot's perfectly
reasonable erudition of his postion on the imposition of

identity-tracking techonlogy, although being a perfectly
valid justification of the need for concentration of
resources, is a position that millions or billions of
perfectly reasonable people are capable of reasoning for
themselves.
  Fuck 'reasonable'...



  Eric Cordian, a much wiser and more perceptive member of
the CypherPunks list than Eric Otot, though less easily
amused, elucidates one of the many reasons why it may
be unreasonable to remain reasonable in one's reasoning in
regard to what one must take under consideration when 
deciding the imortance, or lack thereof, of refusing to
submit to the increasing intrusion of technology into our
lives in return for what are often marginal benefits.

From: Eric Cordian  
Subject: Re: The Borg Arrive 
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net  
 
Steve Schear writes: 
 
> Many of the large grocers in my area have also gone to
> 'club' cards as a means of data mining and loyalty
> promotion.  However, the procedure for joining such clubs
> is open loop, in that the cards are issued at the POS 
> and no check is made of the information your provide. 
> All of mine are pseudoanonymous.    
For the time being.   
 
However, that could change once all retail outlets are 
MarkOfTheBeast-Enabled. 
 
Infrastructure is infrastructure, after all.  
 
--- 
Eric Michael Cordian 0+ 
O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division 
"Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law" 
---

  An interesting, widely unknown part of the Club Card
equation is that, even if an individual does not 'provide'
the vendor with the Mark of the Beast (SSN), those who
control the databases involved 'add' MotB/SSN information
from widely available 'lookup' sources.
  As well, the Corporate Beast seems to have learned a few
tricks from the Government Beast. Just as the government
takes your money as Federal Taxes and then uses it to 'buy'
the compromise of your 'State rights' under the guise of
matching federal funding, the corporations merely raise
their prices and then give the customer a 'rebate' in
return for registering for the Yellow Star Club Card.
  During my recent Soft Target Tour of Tucson, I used my
base-player's Safeway Club Card, but I always made a point
of going to the adjoining Walgreen's first, to get those
things on my list which they sold, before going to Safeway.
I cannot recall a single item which I bought at Walgreen's
which was not a higher price at Safeway, unless one used
the Club Card, whereupon it 'magically' became exactly the
same price as the item was at Walgreen's.

  When shopping for myself, I refuse to play the 'Savings
Club' game, for the same reason I don't sell my butt behind
the GreyHound Bus Station for a paltry sum of money.
  Instead, I spend a few more dollars paying the inflated
prices, and I leave a few expensive cuts of the store's 
meat products in a location where they won't be found for
a few days.
  In essence, I pay more as a result of the Sheeple's 
actions, and they pay more as a result of mine.


  Tim May, a 34th Generation May Son and a licentious
proctologist, has turned his multiple personality affliction
into an overall benefit to the quality of his life by
singlehandedly creating and maintaining all of the various
personas that make up the CypherPunks list subscriber
membership, maintaining the list archives, singlehandedly
inventing all CypherPunks technologies under his 'Tim May'
persona, and keeping his remaining personas in line by
referring them to the 'archives' every time the subordinate
personas try to take credit for legendary CypherPunk
concepts such as 'sliced bread' and the 'wheel'.
  Despite being the only real subscriber to the CypherPunks
list, he manages to not only singlehandedly run all of the
Bay Area CypherPunks Physical Meetings, but also to put into
practice the MeatSpace manifestations of the concepts he
espouses, by methods such as discussed in the following:


To: Eric Cordian , cypherpunks@cyberpass.net 
From: Tim May  
Subject: Re: The Borg Arrive 
 
At 6:05 PM -0700 5/1/98, Eric Cordian wrote: 
 
>A few weeks ago, however, Rite Aid did something which was
>not merely mildly annoying, but actually threatening to my
>privacy. 
> 
>I walked into the store, and noticed that every sale tag 
>in the store had been embellished with fine print
>containing the words "(With your Rite Rewards Card)" Giant
>banners proclaimed that this card was free and could be 
>obtained by simply filling out a little form, available 
>at any register.  This form required your name, address, 
>apt, state, zip, phone number, and date of birth, and the 
>card was barcoded.  
Did you miss the discussion of the Kalifornia Solution? 
 
At physical meetings and parties we _exchange member cards_ 
randomly. 
 
A persona hit upon this after I was showing my "Safeway" (a 
major Kalifornia-based chain in 46 of the 57Semi-Autonomous 
Republics) and describing how we can execute a Chaumian 
exchange. As the cards are just cards, with no photo and no 
obvious I.D. attached, such exchanges are easy. 
 
>Beware the Borg.  Coming soon to a neighborhood store near you. 
> 
>P.S. I went with the card.  
But of the cards I have, all are filled out illegibly or 
have been traded multiple times. Identity entropy is an 
interesting concept. 
  
--Tim May 
  
"The tree of liberty must be watered periodically with the
blood of tyrants...." 
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---- 
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money, 
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, 
zero 
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information 
markets, 
Licensed Ontologist              | black markets, collapse of 
governments. 


  Federal US Marshall Clow, famous as the LEA who finally 
brought the Blues Brothers to Justice and Ray Charles to
Blind Justice, suggests that Identity Entropy Warriors
use the addresses of the the secret lairs of the Circle
of Eunuchs and the Army of Dog in filling out all forms,
so that the UCE/Spams they so dearly love can be forwarded
to them after InfoWar has driven them underground.


To: Rabid Wombat , Martin Minow 
 
From: Marshall Clow  
Subject: Re: The Borg Arrives 
Cc: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net 

At 8:45 AM -0700 5/1/98, Rabid Wombat wrote:
>On Fri, 1 May 1998, Martin Minow wrote:  
>>  accepts a loyalty 
>> card and complains  that he has lost his privacy. 

>> So, do the Cypherpunks thing -- get another card and use 
>> that sometimes. 
>> In fact, have all your friends get cards and, whenever
>> you get together throw your cards in a pile and take new
>> ones away with you 
> 
>> ps: did you actually sign your real name? If so, we're
>> going to take away your secret decoder ring.  
> He used his real address. Now they know where to find 
> his cat ...

Try 
	1060 West Addison; Chicago IL  (Wrigley Field) 
or	70 Brookline Dr.; Boston MA    (Fenway Park) 

-- Marshall
Marshall Clow     Adobe Systems   

"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can 
prevent the government from wasting the labors of the
people under the pretense of taking care of them."
---Thomas Jefferson


  Although Marshall Clow ends his post with a grotesquely
misquoted statement from Thomas Jefferson--whose original
quotations in regard to government invariably contained
words such as ratfuckers, cocksuckers, slimeballs, jerkwads,
etc.--it nonetheless reflects the type of subterfuge that
Jefferson foresaw taking place in the sphere of government,
which is today being mirrored in the methodologies of
corporations worldwide.
  The 'federal matching funds' and 'club card savings' scams
are but one example of the reasons that an increasing number
of citizens, such as Tim May, are finding it necessary to
undergo training in proctology, in order to figure out just
what the hell governments and corporations are *doing* back
there...


  The preceeding illustrates what individuals and small
cells of Army of Dog Warriors can do to throw an element
of misdirection into the increasing number of tracking
mechanisms being put in place in our daily lives.
  However, these effect of these types of resistance to the 
digitalization of humanity are generally far outweighed by
the mindless SheepleDom of the masses in allowing themselves
to be herded unquestioningly into an endless variety of
feeding pens where they are expected to feed on corporate
products and, in turn, be fed upon by the government.

  Of much more effect are the actions of potential Army of
Dog Warriors who are in positions which allow them to add
misdirection to the digital equation at a level which can
throw a Major Screw into the machinery.
  System Administrators, DataBase Managers, Tech Support
personnel, software and hardware Programmers and Developers,
are all in a position to enter random numbers into the
structured equations designed to monitor and track an
increasing number of individual citizens whose lives will
be documented in increasing detail in an ever-widening
network of corporate and government databases.


Tim C. May Owes Me $ .05 As His Share Of The Money That
Was Ripped Off From Me By Sun MicroSystems By Selling
Me An Operating System Which Was Written By University
Students Who Put Comments In The Source Files Which 
Made Fun Of People Over '30':

  Tim--I paid Deloite & Touche $ 60,000 to do a Quality
Control Analysis on my life, in general, and their report,
which is the equivalent of borrowing my watch to tell me
what time it is, indicates that the posts you have made
to the CypherPunks Disturbed Male LISP since 7 Dec, 1989,
are worth $ .03, so as long as you send me your $ .02 worth,
we can call it even, and I won't have to launch an assault
on Mayonnaise Mountain and put my SPARCard 2 where the
Sun MicroSystems don't shine...


The Bottom Line, Version 9.9, Revision 0.0:
  It's my birthday, I'm halfway through a bottle of
Glenfiddich, Cask Strength (51% alcohol) Scotch, which is
produced in Dufftown (Home of 'Duff Beer', Homer Simpson's
drink of choice), Banffshire (Just outside of Calgary, AB),
Scotland (An independent Cirle of Eunuchs/Army of Dog
Republic often referred to as 'The Texas of the British
Empire').
  My Dad gave me a birthday call, during which he informed
me that his talks with the RCMP revealed that Canadian
Customs can hold my computers, etc., up to 90 days before
exorcising their option to put their dick up my ass, and
then hold it for the fifty years during which the outcome
of any further court proceedings are decided.
  I totally flipped out, screaming all kinds of self-
incriminating utterances which prove conclusively that
I am a danger to the lives and lifes of decent, Dog-
Fearing MeatSpaceIzens everywhere, even though I am
fully aware that my electronic communications are being
monitored by those who will be 'between a rock and a hard
place' when they have to decide whether they should admit
to their illegal, surrupticious surveillance of my life,
since birth, which would prove that my extreme paranoia 
validates my 'sanity defense', or to pretend that they 
are just a loosely-knit organization of semi-competent
traffic-ticket writers who have no idea what this silly,
paranoid fool is talking about, validating their claim 
that I should be committed to an internment camp for the
Delusionally Politically Incorrect, and that the evidence
confirming the reality of the basis of my nonsensical 
blatherings should be chalked up to 'mere coincidence'.


For Professional Mathematicians Only:
1. Estimate the number of times I have 'twitched' in
between the time I screamed at my Dad that the RCMP
are not the only ones in possession of firearms.
2. Divide this estimate by the number of times I have
gotten laid since 1992 (Hint: '0').
3. Add the number of times that Toto has forged posts
to the CypherPunks list, using your name.
4. Subtract the number of ASCII-Art spams sent to the
list since July 31, 1999 (Hint: 'The same as answer #2').
5. Multiply by Franklin's Fudge Factor.
6. Plot Pinkerton's Probability Point.
7. Ask yourself, "How many stops did the train make?"

  An accurate calculation of the undescribable, inane,
indiscrimate insanities enumerated above, will, if 
divided by the value of Pi legislated by Congress,
provide the number of bodies it takes to spell 'Einstein
Was Crazy'.
  While this in no way relates to valid CypherPukes issues
such as Craptographics or Piracy, it is essential to the
issue of exactly when this chapter of 'SPACE ALIENS HIDE
MY DRUGS' ceased to follow the pre-ordained path which
the Tao was directing it toward, by way of CensorShip
by the Cosmic Muffin, and became a meaningless diatribe
during which I tried to disguise the fact that I am 
jumping up and down, screaming "KILL, KILL, KILL!!!"
and putting my head through the walls of my home in
an increasingly futile attempt to prevent myself from
stepping beyond the boundaries of the social programming
provided by the Secret Government Agents Cleverly 
Disguised As Teachers and emptying the clips of several
dozen illegal firearms into the MeatSpace boundaries of
a Post Office, a Luby's Cafeteria, and a Schoolhouse
Full Of 'Innocent Children Who Would Eventually Murder
Their Parents If I Didn't Slaughter Them, Anyway' To
Be Named Later.


  The concept of the Army of Dog assumes that the 
majority of DogIzens will be sufficiently sane to
direct their rEvolutionary thoughts, feelings and
actions in a direction which will result in the
BioSemiotic Evolution of Humankind moving forward
to an increasingly logical and humanistic future.
  If a few MadDogs such as myself have to be put
down by LEA CypherPunks, and a number of Sheeple
need to be Nuked by Timothy C. McCypherPunks, then
it is a small price to pay for ensuring that SpamFord
will be free to compete with Dimitri's ASCII-Art and
Fuck@Yourself.Up's Trojan Horses for the attention of
CypherPunks Disturbed Male LISP Mambo'ers who have
remained subscribed to 'cypherpunks-unedited@toad.com',
in order to document the 'Secret Conspiracy Against
The CypherPunks List' that is being perpetrated by the
Commie Schill, Ignoramus Chewed-Off, the Awe-Stun-Taxes
WebMasturbator, James ChokeTheMonkey, and A Nietzsche
Nazi Racing Across The Tundra In A Snowmobile To Be
Named Later.
  When all is said and done, it matters little that
the Violent Armed Thugs who comprise the Dudley DoWrong
Division of the RCMP are incapable of setting up and
railroading an individual who is half as smart as his
dog. What matters is that they can shoot his sorry ass,
move the body to the nearest Reservation, put a skirt
on him, add the body of dead, young Native child with
a tube of glue in his hand, and launch an internal
investigation by their BumBuddies (TM) that will show
them to have followed Proper PoliceMurder Procedure.


Now For The 'BAD' News:
  As you have probably guessed, given the obvious
degeneration of this rambling diatribe into an
incoherent 'Rage Against The Machine', I have 
finally sunk into such a depraved condition of
violent insanity that any astute judge of the
human condition can easily predict that the next
chapter of 'SAHMD' will tell The Truth, The Whole
Truth, And Nothing But The Truth.

  Please read it, anyway...
  If you constantly remind yourself that I am a 
madman, then you can relegate what I have to reveal
to your subconsious, and continue to chop wood and
carry water without feeling obligated to join me in 
an assault on everything that righteous, Dog-Fearing
Netizens hold sacred.

The Retribution is NOW!





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: muad@iname.com
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 02:00:34 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: password.pwl
Message-ID: <199805070900.FAA04899@web02.globecomm.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I have the source code for glide.c the decrypter but i dont know how to run the program.
Therefore i need your help in this.


---------------------------------------------------
Get free personalized email at http://www.iname.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: J-Dog 
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 07:42:06 -0700 (PDT)
To: muad@iname.com
Subject: Re: password.pwl
In-Reply-To: <199805070900.FAA04899@web02.globecomm.net>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


gcc -o glide glide.c

Latez
JD

On Thu, 7 May 1998 muad@iname.com wrote:

> I have the source code for glide.c the decrypter but i dont know how to run the program.
> Therefore i need your help in this.
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------
> Get free personalized email at http://www.iname.com
> 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: jim@mentat.com (Jim Gillogly)
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 08:01:57 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Spam
Message-ID: <9805071457.AA20574@mentat.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Stan the Sequencer sez:
> Apparently only as far back as 1993, the definition of the word "spam" from
> the on-line jargon file was this (according to the New Hackers Dictionary) -
> 
> spam [from the MUD community] vt. To crash a program by over-running a fixed-
> size buffer with excessively large input data.  See also Buffer Overflow,
> Overrun Screw, Smash the Stack.

This isn't quite accurate.  The term "spamming" in Mudding has always meant
inundating the players with repetitive material, whether intentionally
or accidentally, and has been used in that sense since sometime around
1990 at least.  The "overflow" is of user screens, not stacks or
buffers... although of course any high usage like that can test a
program's limits.

I just wrote and snipped a long disquisition on the history of spam starting
with Clarence Thomas IV in 1993, having realized it's probably not relevant to
your interests and old hat to everybody else.  Suffice it to say that spam
does require extra resources to process, both in hardware and time.  We resent
it because the end user is paying for it rather than the advertiser, so there
is no natural limit to the amount of crap they can pour on us.

	Jim Gillogly




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Trei, Peter" 
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 07:41:06 -0700 (PDT)
To: "'StanSqncrs'" 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


[Trei, Peter]  stanSqncrs [SMTP:StanSqncrs@aol.com] wrote:

>Apparently only as far back as 1993, the definition of the
>word "spam" from the on-line jargon file was this (according
>to the New Hackers Dictionary) -

>spam [from the MUD community] vt. To crash a program by
>over-running a fixed- size buffer with excessively large
>input data.  See also Buffer Overflow, Overrun Screw, Smash
>the Stack.

>Obviously that definition has changed since then.  I've seen
>it go from that to repetitive commercial advertising, and
>I've seen it used to brand someone as an outcast of a list
>for future removal simply because a small minority didn't
>like what that person had said (so it was being used at that
>time to mean 'objectional material').

>And in all the times I've seen the word fly, there has never
>been anykind of volume that would come close to overblowing
>the forum's mechanical capabilities.

>So, I'm curious as to who/what dictated the meaning of that
>to change so drasticly.  Write me in private if it's
>off-subject (and yes, you can write me anonomously if you
>don't want a response. :-) )

How quickly they forget...

It's not a change of meaning; rather, it is a new branch off
of an earlier root meaning.

The ultimate root, is of course, Hormel's processed meat
product. I don't know how old that is but it goes back at
least to WW2.

The immediate root lies in a Monty Python sketch of the
early 70's.  The text may be found at
http://w3.informatik.gu.se/~dixi/spam.htm (don't miss the
sound clip.) It takes place in a cafe, where almost every
menu item includes Spam. As a waitress reads the menu to
some patrons ("egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon
sausage and spam; spam bacon sausage and spam; spam egg spam
spam bacon and spam; spam sausage spam spam bacon spam
tomato and spam..." etc), a group of Vikings at the next
table start to sing:

"Spam Spam Spam Spam Spam Spam Spam Spam"
"Lovely Spam! Wonderful Spam!"
"Lovely Spam! Wonderful Spam!"

(repeat endlessly)

----------------

At certain science fiction conventions in the late 70's and
early 80's it became a tradition for groups of fans (to whom
the Pythons were minor deities) to parade en mass through
the corridors of convention hotels singing the Spam Song.
Many online fen were also active in early MUDs, so the term
came to be used for unwanted, repetitive, voluminous, and
content-free input of all kinds.

------------

Flash forward to April 14, 1994. 

The WWW is not on most peoples radar yet; it's still the Age
of Usenet. 

Cantor & Siegel, a pair of shysters, figure out that they
can advertise their dubious 'services' (charging $100 for
information which the government gives out for free) at no
cost on usenet.  Like many lawyers, they suffer from a
mental disorder which leads them to believe that any action
which is not explicitly against the law is reasonable and
appropriate.  They send their ad to over 5000 newsgroups,
regardless of topic.

In those days, many netusers read multiple newsgroups every
morning. That day, every newsgroup you opened included the
same article in the subject list, along with dozens of angry
denouncments of the off-topic post.

*Every* *single* *newsgroup*.

The resemblance to the menu at the Python cafe was
unmistakeable, and 'spam' was the term instantly adopted to
describe the practice.

Since then, the use of the term 'spam' has been expanded to
refer to any sort of off-topic and undesired information
sent over the net, especially when a shotgun approach is
used.

Question: When was the *first* spam type message? I remember
in the early 80's a student spammed Usenet, asking for small
donations to help him meet tuition. Are there any earlier
cases?

Peter Trei
ptrei@securitydynamics.com 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Global Web Builders 
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 22:01:03 -0700 (PDT)
To: (Recipient list suppressed)
Subject: Pauline Hanson's One Nation May 1998 Newsletter
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980507045734.00a25f80@mail.pronet.net.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Issue 1.9, May 1998

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
PLEASE NOTE: No unsolicited email is sent. If you do not want to be on the
mailing list please say "REMOVE" in the subject line and return this message
in the body.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear One Nation supporter in New South Wales,

It is now becoming extremely important that you make your desire to help One
Nation in the upcoming Federal election known to your local branch.

Your local contact (by email or phone) can be seen at the following URL:
http://www.gwb.com.au/onenation/federal/become.htm

Please let these key people know how you can help, whether it be by
assisting in mail drops or manning polling booths. 

We need your help!

During the last six weeks we have, as a political party, reached many
milestones.

These milestones, covered on the Internet, include: 

- One Nation's birthday party at my farm on April 11th
See: http://www.gwb.com.au/gwb/news/history/day1.html for coverage and images.
- the launch of the One Nation Federal Web site:
http://www.gwb.com.au/onenation/federal

There have also been a number of press releases on a range of issues. These
can be seen at:
http://www.gwb.com.au/onenation/press 

You might not be aware that negotiation on the MAI (multilateral agreement
on investment) has been delayed, not stopped. See this URL for my press
release on the MAI:
http://www.gwb.com.au/onenation/press/010598.html

For more information on this secret international treaty, visit:
http://www.gwb.com.au/mai.html

Finally, we need your financial assistance. We are not going to get the big
business million dollar donations like the major parties. We depend on YOU
to help us to promote the image and policies of this party at the upcoming
Federal election.

Please assist if and where you can. There is an on-line donation form at:
http://www.gwb.com.au/pledge.html 

Regards,


Pauline Hanson





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSqncrs 
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 14:11:10 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Spam
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Thanks to Peter Trei for that bit of history.

In a message dated 5/7/98 10:26:48 AM Central Daylight Time, jim@mentat.com
writes:

<< I just wrote and snipped a long disquisition on the history of spam
starting
 with Clarence Thomas IV in 1993, having realized it's probably not relevant
to
 your interests ... >>

Actually, by the timing you describe, it would probably make it VERY relevant
to my interests.  I'd love to see it.


<< and old hat to everybody else.  Suffice it to say that spam
 does require extra resources to process, both in hardware and time.  We
resent
 it because the end user is paying for it rather than the advertiser, so there
 is no natural limit to the amount of crap they can pour on us. >>

But times have changed again.  Now the users have unlimited access.

BTW:  As I understand it, the corporations were given free-speech rights with
a bad Supreme Court decision back in the '20's, even though the constitution
only grants rights to "people" and "citizens" (14th amendment)

Stan




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 07:51:21 -0700 (PDT)
To: kalliste@aci.net>
Subject: http://www.jya.com/whp043098.htm
Message-ID: <35530212.62B0@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Friday 5/8/98 6:25 AM

John Young
J Orlin Grabbe

Sobolewski phoned last night.

Sobolewski gave me his opinion.

1  Campos is going to hold in camera ex parte conference with NSA
2  Campos will then award summary judgment to NSA.

I told Sobolewski that most of the legal citations in Campos' document
were not contained in the pleadings.

Sobolewski EXCLAIMED, "Oh."

Sobolewski is particularly good at law.  Sobolewski's father was a
lawyer and judge both in Poland and Australia.

Sobolewski prevailed in an lawsuit spanning the US and Australia - but
it still cost him more than $20k TELLING a lawyer what to do.

Sobowleski usually beats speeding tickets.

Sobolewski uses DISCOVERY to obtain maintenance and calibration
records of police radar.  And also radar operation training records of
the officer who stopped him.

The MEMORANDUM OPINION AND ORDER authored by some government 
lawyers and signed by Campos is clearly a candidate for one of the
STUPIDEST and INCOMPETENT legal documents ever written.
http://www.jya.com/whp043098.htm

Morales and I LOVE IT, of course!  

This is why we were so happy last Friday.  We got another shot at THEM
[aka The Great Satan].

Morales is taking the day off from Sandia today.  

We will finish and file our motion.  Then BLAST it out on the Infobahn.

I see other good legal advice linked at http://www.aci.net/kalliste/

http://www.phrack.com/52/P52-05

Later
bill






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 12:01:06 -0700 (PDT)
To: jim.moran@mail.house.gov
Subject: FILED 98 MAY - 8 AM 11:31
Message-ID: <3553504B.6AA9@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

John Young

File-stamped copy was mailed to you at US Courthouse.

Later
bill


                    UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
                 FOR THE DISTRICT OF NEW MEXICO


William H. Payne        	   	    		            )
Arthur R. Morales                           			)
                                            				)
                Plaintiffs,                 			            )
                                            				)
v                                           				)	CIV NO 97 0266 
							)	SC/DJS
			                    			)
Lieutenant General Kenneth A. Minihan, USAF 	            )
Director, National Security Agency	    		)
National Security Agency		    		)
                                            				)
                Defendant                   			)


PLAINTIFFS' MOTION TO AMEND Santiago E. Campos MEMORANDUM 
OPINION AND ORDER FILED 98 APR 30 AM 11:45

1  COMES NOW plaintiffs Payne  and Morales [Plaintiffs] to exercise their rights under the Federal 

Rules of Civil Procedure, Rule 52. Findings by the Court; Judgment on Partial Findings

  (b) Amendment. On a party's motion filed no later than 10 days after 
  entry of judgment, the court may amend its findings--or make additional 
  findings--and may amend the judgment accordingly. ...

2 Plaintiffs will show that the Court's [Campos]  MEMORANDUM OPINION AND ORDER 

http://www.jya.com/whp043098.htm contains presumably-unintentional false statements or misleading 

statements of essential material facts.

Plaintiffs move to permit Campos to amend ORDER to reflect proper remedy of obvious evidence

of lack of impartiality and judicial misconduct.

A  judge is supposed to judge arguments presented by the Plaintiffs and the Defendant.

An  judge is NOT SUPPOSED to engage in legal research designed to support either Plaintiff or 

Defendant's case.

Judge Campos was  supposed to rely on legal citations presented ONLY by pro se Plaintiffs or 

NSA Defendant  Minihan's  lawyer,  Assistant US Attorney Jan Elizabeth Mitchell [Mitchell].

MEMORANDUM  OPINION AND ORDER contains OVER ABOUT 144 legal citations most of 

which WERE NOT PRESENTED TO THE COURT in pleadings by either Plaintiffs or Defendant.

3  Campos writes

  Plaintiffs contend that Federal Civil Procedure Rule 36 explicitly provides that discovery is 
  allowed without leave of the court. Plaintiffs quote citation   The Court is unsure where 
  Plaintiffs found the language  they quote, but it is incorrect.

Federal Civil Judicial Procedure and Rules, WEST PUBLISHING  COMPANY, 1991 Revised 

Edition, page 110 states, 
 
 Rule 36.  Requests for Admission

  Request for admission (a) A party may serve upon any other 
  party a written request for the  admission, for the  purposes of 
  the pending action only, of the truth of any  matters within the  
  scope of Rule 26(b) set forth the request that relate to statements 
  or opinions of fact or of the application of law to fact including 
  the genuineness of any documents described in the request.   
  Copies of documents shall  be served with the request unless 
  they have been or otherwise  furnished or made available for 
  inspection and  copying.  The request may WITHOUT LEAVE  
  OF THE COURT, be served  upon the plaintiff after 
  commencement of  the action and upon any  other party with 
  or after service of the  summons and complaint upon that 
  party. ... 
 
Updated Rule 36 seen at http://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/frcp/overview.htm,

click at 36. Requests for Admission states

  A party may serve upon any other party a written request for the admission, for  purposes of the   
  pending action only, of the truth of any matters within the scope  of Rule 26(b)(1) set forth in the 
  request that relate to statements or opinions of fact or of the application of law to fact, including the 
  genuineness of any  documents described in the request. Copies of documents shall be served with 
  the request unless they have been or are otherwise furnished or made available  for inspection and 
  copying.   Without leave of court or written stipulation,  requests for admission may not be served 
  before the time specified in Rule 26(d) .

Rule 26(d) states

  (d) Timing and Sequence of Discovery.

  Except when authorized under these rules or by local rule, order, or agreement of the parties, a party   
  may not seek discovery from any source before the parties have met and conferred as required by 
  subdivision (f). Unless the court upon motion, for the convenience of parties and witnesses and in the 
  interests of justice, orders otherwise, methods of discovery may be used in any sequence, and the fact 
  that a party is conducting discovery, whether by deposition or otherwise, shall not operate to delay 
  any other party's discovery.

Essential material facts are

1  5/23/97 Docket Sheet entry 9 Plaintiffs file   MOTION by plaintiff for order to accept discovery 

plan (dmw)

2  Defiant misses filing date for response to entry 9.

3  Plaintiffs' file on 6/9/97 Docket Sheet entry 13  MOTION by plaintiff to 

accept discovery plan of plaintiffs as an unopposed motion before the court (dwm)

4  In panic Defendant's lawyer US Mitchell submits on 6/9/97 Docket Sheet entry 14,
  
RESPONSE by defendant to motion to accept discovery plan of plaintiffs as an 

unopposed motion before the Court [13-1] (dwm) [Entry date  06/10/97]

Lawyer Mitchell, apparently realizing her legal procedural blunder, is 

forced to deposit her LATE MOTION in Court outside mailbox since entry was 

not stamped FILED until June 10.

The "time specified in Rule 26(d)" was satisfied, therefore Plaintiffs were with

the law for proceeding with discovery.

4  Campos cites in 

  B. Standing of Plaintiff Morales  ... see also NLRB v. Sears. Roebuck &  Co., 421 U.S. 132, 144 n.
  10 ( 1975).

Plaintiffs can find no reference to NLRB v. Sears. Roebuck &  Co in Mitchell's pleadings

Therefore Campos reaches conclusion that Morales should be removed partially on obviously biased

citations of Campos own legal research.

5  Campos writes in 

 C. Proper Defendant

Campos cites the following legal citations to justify dismissing defendant Minihan

1  Thompson v. Walbran, 990 F.2d 403, 405 (8thCir. 1993) (per curiam); 
2  Petrus v. Bowen, 833 F.2d 581, 582-83 (5th Cir.1987); 
3  Sherwood Van Lines, Inc. v. United States Department of the Navy,732 F. Supp. 240, 241 (D.D.C.    
    1990); 
4  Gary Energy Corp. v. United StatesDepartment of Energy, 89 F.R.D. 675, 675-77 (D. Colo. 1981). 
5  But see, e.g Diamond v. FBI, 532 F. Supp. 216, 21920 (S.D.N.Y. 1981), aff'd on other
    grounds, 707 F.2d 75 (2d Cir. 1983); 
6  Hamlin v. Kelley, 433 F. Supp. 180,181 (N.D. Ill. 1977).
7  Parks v. IRS, 618 F.2d 677 684 (10th Cir. 1980)

Plaintiffs can find NONE of the above legal citations in ANY pleadings before the Court.

Therefore, Plaintiffs conclude that Campos is obviously biased and has improperly introduced legal

citations in an attempt to have Minihan dismissed.

6  Campos cites in 
 
 III. FOIA
 A. FOIA Policy

1  NLRB v, Robbins Tire & Rubber Co.,     437 U.S. 214, 242 (1978).
2  Anderson v. Department of Health and Human Services,907 F.2d 936, 941 (10th Cir. 1990)
3  Maricopa Audubon Society v. United States Forest Service, 923 F. Supp. 1436, 1438-39
(D.N.M. 1995)
4  Maricopa Audubon Society v. United States Forest Service, 923 F. Supp. 1436, 1438-39
(D.N.M. 1995)
5  Hale v. United States Department of Justice, 973 F.2d894, 897 (10th Cir. 1992) 
6  (citing EPA v. Mink, 410 U.S. 73, 79-80 (1973), vacated on other grounds, 509 U.S. 918 (1993));
7  Office of Information and Privacy, U.S. Department of Justice, Freedom of Information
   Act Guide & Privacy Act Overview 3 (Sept. 1997 ed.)
8  S. Rep. No. 813, 89th Cong., 1st Sess. 10 (1965),
9  United States Department of Justice v. Reporters Commission for Freedom of the Press, 489 U.S.   
    749, 773  (1989);see id. at 774
10  Air Force v. Rose, 425 U.S. 352, 360-61(1976); 
11  Anderson v. Department of Health and Human Services, 907 F.2d 936,941 (10th Cir. 1990); 
12  Johnson v. United States Department of Justice, 739F.2d 1514, 1516 (10th Cir. 1984)
13   Hale v. United States Department of Justice, 2 F.3d 1053, 1057 (10th Cir. 1993);
14  Cal-Almond, Inc. v. United States Department of Agriculture, 960 F.2d 105, 107 (9th Cir. 1992).
15  Bowen v.United States Food and Drug Administration, 925 F.2d 1225, 1226 (9th Cir. 1991) . 
16  King v. Department of Justice, 830 F.2d 210, 217 (D.C. Cir.1987).
17  Vaughn v. Rosen, 484 F.2d 820 (D.C.Cir. 1973); 
18  Weiner v. FBI, 943 F.2d 972, 977 (9th Cir. 1991).
19  Halperin v. CIA, 629 F.2d 144, 14849 (D.C. Cir. 1980);

Plaintiffs can find NONE of the above citation of law in pleadings before this Court

Campos is obviously biased for including above 18 citations.

Campos cites internet addresses

1  <  http://www.usdoj.gov/oip/oip.html >
2  < http://www.usdoj.gov/oip/oip.html > 
3  < http://www.usdoj.gov/oip/oip.html > 
4  < http://www.usdoj.gov/oip/oip.html> 
5  < http://www.usdoj.gov/oip/oip.html>
6  

Mitchell cites no Internet address in her pleadings.

Above Internet address citations are not those given by Plaintiffs.

Therefore, Campos introduces material not in pleadings before this court in his

MEMORANDUM OPINION AND ORDER.

7  Campos cites in

  B. Exhaustion of Administrative Remedies

1  Taylor v. United States Treasury Department, 127 F.3d 470,475 (5th Cir. 1997)
2  Taylor v. Appleton, 30 F.3d 1365, 1367 n.3 (11th Cir. 1994)
3  Volvo GM Heavy Truck Corp. v. United States Department of Labor, 118 F.3d 205,
    08-09 (4th Cir. 1997)
4  Trenerry v. Internal Revenue Service, No. 95-5150, 70 F.3d 598, 1996 WL 88459 at *1 (10th Cir.    
    March 1, 1996)
5  Lanter v. Department of Justice, No. 93-6308, 19 F.3d 33, 1994 WL 75876 at *1 (10th Cir. March 
    8, 1994)
6  Hass v. United States Air Force, 848 F. Supp. 926, 929 (D. Kan. 1994)
7  Katzman v. CIA, 903 F. Supp.434, 437 (E.D. N.Y. 1995) (citing Becker v. Internal Revenue 
    Service, 34 F.3d 398, 405 (7th Cir. 1994)).
8  Ruotolo v. Department of Justice, 53 F.3d 4, 8 (2d Cir. 1995);
9  Spannaus v. United States Department of Justice, 824 F.2d 52, 59 (D.C. Cir 1987);
10 Kuchta v. Harris, No. 92-1121, 1993 WL 87705 at *3 (D.Md. March 25, 1993)
11 Trueblood v. United States Department of Treasury, 943 F. Supp. 64, 66-67 (D.D.C. 1996);

Plaintiffs could NOT find ANY of the above legal citations in pleadings before this Court.

Campos gives biased opinion on exhaustion of administrative remedies.

8  Campos cites in

  C. Summary Judgment

1  Haines v. Kerner, 404 U.S. 519, 520 (1972) (per curiam).
2  Shabazz v. Askins, 14 F.3d 533, 535 (10th Cir. 1994).
3  Green v.Dorrell, 969 F.2d 915, 917 (10th Cir. 1992).
4  Anderson v. Liberty Lobby, Inc., 477 U.S. 242, 249, 255 (1986).
5  Magnum Foods, Inc. v. Continental Casualty Co., 36 F.3d 1491, 1497 (10th Cir. 1994).
6  World of Sleep. Inc. v. La-Z-Boy Chair Co., 756 F.2d 1467, 1474 (10th Cir. 1985)
7  Celotex Corp. v. Catrett. 477 U.S. 317, 325 (1986).
8  Bacchus Industries. Inc. v. Arvin Industries. Inc., 939 F.2d 887,891 (10th Cir. 1991).

Plaintiffs can find none of the above citation in pleadings before this Court.

9  Campos cites in

  3. Plaintiff's First Summary Judgment Motion

1  Powell v. McCormack, 395 U.S. 486, 496 (1969)
2  Phillippi v. CIA, 546 F.2d 1009, 1013 (D.C. Cir. 1976).
3  Patterson v. FBI, 705 F. Supp. 1033, 1039 (D.N.J. 1989), aff'd 898 F.2d 595 (3d Cir. 1990).
4  American Friends Service Committee v. Department of Defense, 831 F.2d 441, 444 (3d
    Cir. 1987) 
5  Salisbury v. United States, 690 F.2d 996, 970 (D.C. Cir. 1982) 
6  Sen. Report No. 1200, 93rd Cong. 12 (1974), U.S. Code Cong. & Admin. News 6267, 6290   
   (1974)).
7  AG's 1993 FOIA Memorandum
8  Afshar v. Department of State, 702 F.2d 1125, 1130 (D.C. Cir. 1983).
9  Pfeiffer v. CIA, 721 F. Supp. 337, 342 (D.D.C. 1989)
10  Public Citizen v. Department State, 11 F.3d 198, 204 (D.C. Cir. 1993).
11  Fitzgibbon v. CIA, 911 F.2d 755, 766 (D.C. Cir. 1990)
12  Military Audit Project v. Casey, 656 F.2d 724, 74345 (D.C. Cir 1981)
13  Phillippi v. CIA, 655 F.2d 1325, 1332-33 (D.C. Cir. 1981)
14  McNamera v. United States Department of Justice, 974 F. Supp. 946, 955-56 (W.D. Tex. 1997).
15  Halperin v. CIA, 629 F.2d 144, 14849 (D.C. Cir. 1980),
16  United States Department of Justice v. Reporters Committee for Freedom of  the Press, 489 U.S. 
      749, 773 (1989);
17  King v. United States Department of Justice, 830 F.2d 210, 224 (D.C. Cir. 1987); 
18  Fitzgibbon v. CIA, 578 F. Supp. 704, 709 (D.D.C. 1983).
19  Katzman v. CIA, 903 F. Supp. 434, 438 (E.D.N.Y. 1995).
20  McDonnell v. United States, 4 F.3d 1227, 1246 (3d Cir. 1993) (citing Association of
      Retired Railroad Workers v. United States Railroad Retirement Board, 830 F.2d 331, 336 (D.C. 
      Cir. 1987)).
21  United States Department of Justice v. Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press, 489 U.S. 
      749, 775 (1989).
22  Founding Church of Scientology v. NSA, 610 F.2d 824, 30, 833 & n. 80 (D.C. Cir. 1979).
23  EPA v. Mink, 410 U.S. 73, 80 (1973); 
24  NLRB v. Robbins Tire & Rubber Co., 437 U.S. 214, 242 (1978).

Plaintiffs cannot find any of the above 24 citation in pleadings before this Court.

9  Campos writes

  Consequently, the Court requests that Defendant provide it, as it has
  offered to do, an in camera ex parte declaration or detailed affidavit
  explaining its reasons for its "Glomar response" and for nondisclosure of
  none of the Iranian and Libyan messages and translations from June 1, 1980
  to June 10,1996, if they do exist. See Anderson v. Department of Health and
  Human Services, 907 F.2d 936, 942. (10th Cir. 1990).24 The declaration of
  affidavit must be provided by the Defendant to the Court within sixty days of the 
  date of this opinion. The Court will stay its decision on Defendant's Motion for 
  Summary Judgment (Exemption 3) until after it has heard or examined Defendant's 
  explanation.

and quotes

  24 As the Tenth Circuit has explained:

  In order to fulfill its obligation to review de novo the agency's decision not to disclose materials  
  sought under  the FOIA, a district court has a  variety of options. "The FOIA allows the district court 
  flexibility in utilizing  in camera review of the disputed documents, indexing, oral testimony, detailed  
  affidavits, or alternative  procedures to determine whether a  sufficient factual basis exists for 
  evaluating the correctness of the  [agency] determination in each case." [If a Vaughn index or  an 
  affidavit is insufficient,] then the district  court must utilize other procedures in order to develop an 
  adequate factual  basis for review of the agency  action.

  Anderson v. Department of Health and Human Services, 907 F.2d 936, 942
  (10th Cir. 1990) (quoting DeSalvo v. Internal Revenue Service, 861 F.2d
  1217, 1222 n.6 (10th Cir. 1988) (first alteration in Anderson)).

Plaintiffs cannot find reference to 

1  Anderson v. Department of Health and Human Services, 907 F.2d 936, 942  (10th Cir. 1990) 
2  DeSalvo v. Internal Revenue Service, 861 F.2d  1217, 1222 n.6 (10th Cir. 1988) 

in pleadings before this Court.

WHEREFORE  Plaintiffs move for Campos to amend MEMORANDUM OPINION AND ORDER
	
which currently reads

10  NOW, THEREFORE, IT IS ORDERED that sua sponte, Defendant is DEEMED by the
  Court to be the NSA, and not Lt. Gen. Kenneth A. Minihan. Future captions
  for this case should reflect this change.

  IT IS FURTHER ORDERED that Plaintiff's Motion for Summary Judgment is
  DENIED without prejudice.

  IT IS FURTHER ORDERED that Defendant's Motion to Dismiss Plaintiff Morales
  is GRANTED.

  IT IS FURTHER ORDERED that, in regard to Defendant's Motion for Partial
  Dismissal and for Summary Judgment, Defendant's Motion for Partial
  Dismissal is DENIED and Defendant's Motion for Summary Judgment is STAYED
  pending an in camera ex parte declaration consistent herewith provided by Defendant to
  the Court within sixty (60) days of the date of this opinion.

  IT IS FURTHER ORDERED that Plaintiff's Motion for Summary Judgment Based on
  Evidence from Admissions is DENIED as MOOT.

to read

11 Santiago Campos disqualifies himself  under 

 28 USC § 455. Disqualification of justice, judge, or magistrate 

    (a) Any justice, judge, or magistrate of the United States shall 
    disqualify himself  in any proceeding in which his impartiality 
    might reasonably be questioned. ...

from further participation in  case CIV NO 97 0266, UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT  FOR 

THE DISTRICT OF NEW MEXICO for basing much of  MEMORANDUM OPINION AND 

ORDER FILED 98 APR 30 AM 11:45 on materials not contained in pleadings before the Court and 

vacates ORDER FILED 98 APR 30 AM 11:45.



                    Respectfully submitted, 
 
 

	        William H. Payne             	   	     
                    13015 Calle de Sandias NE          	     
                    Albuquerque, NM 87111              	     
 
 			
                    
                    Arthur R. Morales                            
                    1024 Los Arboles NW                         
                    Albuquerque, NM 87107                        
 
                    Pro se litigants 
 
 
               CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE 
 
I HEREBY CERTIFY that a copy of the foregoing memorandum
was mailed to Lieutenant General Kenneth A. Minihan, USAF, 
Director,  National Security Agency, National Security Agency, 
9800 Savage Road, Fort George G. Meade, MD 20755-6000 
and hand delivered to Jan E Mitchell, Assistant US Attorney, 
525 Silver SW, ABQ, NM 87102 this Friday May 8, 1998. 



9






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: iw@merkur.contexo.de (Ingo Wechsung)
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 05:19:49 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: My mail address changed
Message-ID: <9805081217.AA03419@merkur.contexo.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Your mail address cypherpunks@toad.com was found in one of my mailboxes.
I want to inform you, that the following mail addresses

	iw@return-online.de
	ingo.wechsung@return-online.de
	iw@cas-nord.de
	ingo.wechsung@return-online.de

will be invalid from July 1st, 1998 on.

Please use one of the following addresses from now on:

	iw@contexo.de
	ingo.wechsung@contexo.de

Kind Regards
Ingo Wechsung




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Trei, Peter" 
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 12:03:43 -0700 (PDT)
To: "'cypherpunks@toad.com>
Subject: DoD orders vendors to use Key "Recovery"
Message-ID: <6B5344C210C7D011835C0000F8012766017A75E6@exna01.securitydynamics.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I hope someone sends them the NSA report on the security hazards of
KR. 

Peter Trei
ptrei@securitydynamics.com

---------------
http://www.gcn.com/gcn/1998/May4/cov1.htm

GCN May 4, 1998 

Defense wants PKI now 
Department intends to make vendors use strong encryption 
By Christopher J. Dorobek 

To jump-start development of a public-key recovery system, the Defense
Department plans to require its vendors to use strong encryption,
deputy Defense secretary John Hamre said recently.

Because it wields significant buying clout, Defense's more stringent
requirements should boost government and industry efforts to build
systems for managing encryption keys, Hamre said last month at an
Armed Forces Communications and Electronics Association event in
Washington.

Agencies cannot wait for the government and industry to settle on a
national encryption policy, Hamre said.

Through successive administrations, the government has tried to
develop a singular policy on encryption. But so far, the efforts have
failed.  Generally, industry has criticized the government's policy
proposals as too restrictive.

"We have an important national imperative to protect ourselves in this
world," Hamre said. "We can't wait to have this issue resolved ...
therefore we're going to buy encryption with key recovery."

Vendors will have to use encrypted data and be able to recover it when
doing business with DOD, he said.

Defense will work out a final policy in the coming weeks, Hamre said.

[...]




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Sunder 
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 14:07:47 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@ssz.com
Subject: [Fwd: 3Com switches - undocumented access level.]
Message-ID: <355372B4.C837F915@brainlink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

--

To: BUGTRAQ@NETSPACE.ORG
Subject: Re: 3Com switches - undocumented access level.
From: Toh Chang Ying 
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 18:42:47 +0800
Approved-By: aleph1@NATIONWIDE.NET
Organization: HICOM Teleservices
Reply-To: "cytoh@plexus.net" 
Sender: Bugtraq List 

The sender was deleted to prevent flames. Don't flame me either. I'm just a poor 3Com user.

-----Original Message-----
From:
Sent:   Friday, May 08, 1998 3:32 PM
Subject:        Re: FW: 3Com switches - undocumented access level.

Toh,
     Thank you for bringing this up for our attention. First of all, let me
assure you that the undocumented access level for the LANplex/Corebuilder
products are purely for support reasons then anything else. We have many
cases where customers will forget their passwords or userids and find
themselves in a spot as they could not get in to the console. This is the
only way we can help them to recover from this situation without losing
their entire configuration. As far as I know, many vendors also have some
kind of special access methods to assist their customer under such
circumstances.These special access methods are for 3 Com support persons
only and are revealed to customers under very special circumstances.
Because the CoreBuilders/LanPlex are typically deployed at the core of a
network, the config for these equipment is typically complex and very
important to the customers. As such, these method can safe the customer a
lot of time and inconvenience by recovering their proper access to the
equipment. If we have to set these equipment to factory default every time
a customer lose his/her password, we will be in a lot of trouble.

As for the stackables, I believe we do not have this access method. That's
because these equipment is plug n play and do not have many parameters to
reconfigure. In the event, a customer loses his/her password, we can just
set everything back to factory default.

Regards,
********** http://www.plexus.net/ ***********
Toh Chang Ying, MCP, Network Operation Centre
HICOM Teleservices Sdn Bhd (323218-A)
Suite 3.5, Wisma HICOM, 2 Jln Usahawan U1/8
40150 Shah Alam, Malaysia
Email: cytoh@plexus.net




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Toto 
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 17:24:23 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Dialogue - SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS!!!
Message-ID: <3553A2E3.2E06@sk.sympatico.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Dialogue - SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS!!!
_______________________________________

WAS: BASIC TRUTHS!

Everyone Has A Photographic Memory...Some Don't Have Film:

  I've got film...

  Pretty Harry, a MarijuanIzen of Garberville, Humbolt County, 
California, was a man who paid close attention to the vagarities of life 
that comprised his MeatSpace environment.
  I was sitting with him in 'The Cellar', a local bar, one night, when 
an effeminate young gentleman from the BigCity came in, sat at a table 
in the middle of the bar, and ordered a drink. Every RedNeck in the bar 
cast derisive looks in the young gentleman's direction
in order to impress upon him that they could do one-armed push-ups, were 
sexually excited only by women, and didn't cotton to young gentlemen 
with full, red lips drinking in 'their' bar, in 'their' town...
  Pretty Harry gave everyone time to get in a threatening scowl, or two, 
and then go back to minding their own business, forgetting about the 
effeminate young gentleman, and he then proceeded to walk over, grab the 
youth by the hair, tilt back his head, and proceed to give him a wet, 
sloppy kiss, with plenty of 'tongue'.  
  Since Pretty Harry was an established member of the local social 
scene, those who observed the event merely barfed into their beers and 
continued whatever they were doing at the time, pretending that they 
hadn't really seen what they had really seen.
  
  This event confirmed what I had already suspected...Pretty Harry was a 
cool dude.

  Pretty Harry sat and talked with me for about twenty minutes, just 
long enough for those present to bury the memory of what had occurred, 
and then proceeded to walk over to the young gentleman's table and 
repeat the action which was so delightfully delicious to the effeminate 
young man from the BigCity, and so disgustingly depraved to the Local 
Yokels who could do one-armed push-ups, and were sexually excited only 
by women.
  This is when I realized that Pretty Harry was WayCool (TM)...

  My point is this...
  Pretty Harry, having proven his deep understanding of the Tao of Life, 
given his ability to throw a Serious Fuck (TM) into the normal 
progression of MeatSpace Reality, was astute enough to tell me, "I've 
noticed that when you come into the bars in town, you sit quietly in the 
corner, and watch what is going on around you. You know more about 'us' 
than 'we' do..."
  There's the Watchers...there's those Watching the Watchers...there's 
those Watching
the Watchers Watching the Watchers...

A Day Without Sunshine Is Like...Night:

  One thing that you will notice if you have the retained the ability to 
'watch' what is happening around you in your MeatSpace environment, is 
that, no matter how comforting the platitudes and 'wise sayings' that 
society-at-large attempts to program into your subconsious, A Day 
Without Freedom Is Like...Slavery.
  If you do not understand what I am attempting to explain by the above, 
then it must be because I am a drug-dealing, terrorist pedophile.


Diplomacy Is Saying "Nice Doggy!"...Until You Find A Rock:

  At the end of a song titled, "I've Been Up So Long, I Can't Get Down," 
on C.J. Parker's "Please! Stop Me Before I Sing Again" album, the 
extremely paraniod singer-songwriter says, "When you can't see THEM, you 
know THEY're being sly..."
  Since the confiscation of my computers, I have not seen a single, 
solitary police car during any of my trips to town. Today, however, 
after threatening the lives of every police officer upon the face of the 
earth during a conversation with my father over my 'telleveryonephone', 
I drove to town and could go nowhere without seeing 
armed police officers glaring at me from the safety of their officially 
marked vehicles.
  The dumb bastards haven't figured out that if they want to shut me up, 
they're going to have to use 'the rock'.


Change Is Inevitable...Except From A Vending Machine:

  When Micro$not was the only game in town, calling their customer 
support numbers resulted only in a recorded message saying, "When is the 
last time a vending machine gave you back your money when you banged on 
it? Fuck Off!"
  Once Pepsi has signed an exclusive contract with your local 
high-school, your children will be subject to felony criminal charges if 
they bang on a vending machine that has stolen their money.


Back Up My Hard Drive? How Do I Put It In Reverse?:

  "Never look back...something might be gaining on you."
~ That Nigger Who Could Strike Out Batters While Pitching From Second 
Base

  Satchel Paige! That's his name...
  He could strike me out in the batter's box at Yankee Stadium while 
pitching from second base at CommuninSki Park.

  I have grown used to losing the MeatSpace records of my life, loves 
and perceptive realities every time that I get mugged by desperate 
criminals or by self-righteous law enforcement agents enforcing what 
they imagine to be the laws that Hitler would put in place if he hadn't 
had to flee to the AdamAntArctic in order to have his body frozen until 
such time that the Nazi scientists welcomed with open arms by the CIA 
after World War II could perfect the CryptOgenics technologies that have 
their roots in the SuperMan Not Wearing Tights theologies of Nazi 
Germany.
 
  I don't look back...
  When Canadian Customs and the RCMP steal the digital record of my 
life, loves and perceptive realities, I look 'forward' to their 
funerals, in the Time-Space Continuum in which SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY 
DRUGS so that the murderous slaughter of everyone who has ever crossed 
my path can be justified as a valid Weight Loss Program which allows one 
to eat anything they want, as long as they burn off the calories in a 
murderous frenzy.


I Just Got Lost In Thought...It Was Unfamiliar Territory:

  ...uuhhh......never mind...


Seen It All, Done It All...Can't Remeber Most Of It:

  Space Aliens Hide My Drugs!


Those Who Live By The Sword Get Shot By Those Who Don't::

  Grass-roots activism and $ .50 will get you a cup of coffee in a 
greasy spoon.
  Canadians who peacefully protest against murderous dictators coming to 
Canada to participate in an Economic Summit will learn that "Money Rubs 
Pepper Spray In Your Eyes And Bullshit Rules!" [WAS: "Money Talks And 
Bullshit Walks!"]


I Feel Like I'm Diagonally Parked In A Parallel Universe:

  I bet if I used a truck-bomb to destroy an enclave of grunt-workers 
involved in the murder of men, women and children who hold uncoventional 
religious views, I would be called a monster for individually emulating 
the actions of the collective.


You Have A Right To Remain Silent! Anything You Say Will Be Misquoted, 
And Then Used Against You:

   The proper quotation of your statements will be released to the 
public after having been sealed under the guise of National Security for 
50 years, at which time it will have little chance of counterbalancing a 
half a century of FUD programming the masses to believe that [Your Name 
Here] acted alone, using a Magic Bullet that officially refutes the laws 
of Newtonian Physics, but which is unlikely to result in your being 
awarded a Nobel Prize.


Nothing Is Foolproof To A Sufficiently Talented Fool:

  This Basic Truth (TM) is the foundation to all amendments to the US 
Constitution, all interpretations of the Holy Word of [Your (G)(g)od's 
Name Here], decisions made by a hand-picked jury of the judge and the 
prosecutor's peers, and really good bar-pick-up lines delivered while 
rubbing one's private parts and drooling.


All My Lies Are True...And Everything I Do, I Really Am:

  "Ask not who your country can Nuke for you...ask who you can Nuke for 
your country."
~ Timothy C. McKennedy, President of Samsonite Peripherals, Inc.

  While the Mayonnaise Mountain Man keeps himself busy attempting to 
limit the ultimate effect of the digital emissions he fires toward the 
InterNet--which ricochet into the minds of innocent bystanders--by 
ranting against the ludicrousness of engaging in 'Magical Thinking', 
some of those taking a direct hit to the head by his XXX Magnum 
Diatribes Against Established Lunacy manage to catch the HeavyLoad 
BulletIns with their teeth, and spit them out in a parallel dimension 
where a lighter atmosphere allows the citizens to wear lighter loafers 
with crystals where the pennies should be, and propel the conceptual 
spirit of the electronic missives of An Aider And Abettor Of A Terrorist 
Nuclear Strike To Be Named Later through electronic goalposts which are 
far-distant from MileHigh Electronic Stadium.

  Thus it is that Circle of Eunuchs Initiates, FrostBack Division, can 
use a John Candy movie to implant in the minds of the Sheeple the 
subliminal suggestion that they can take a personal hand in writing the 
history of Biosemiotic Evolution within the boundaries of the segment of 
the Time-Space Continuum they inhabit, and get to fuck the living shit 
out of Gena Davis.
  Thus it is that Circle of Eunuchs Initiate, Army of Dog Gorrilla, Son 
of MicroGomez can confidently proclaim Peter Jennings to be a Circle of 
Eunuchs Initiate, FrostBack Division, and not be in the least surprised 
when 'Epilogue 7.3 Rev. 1.7' of 'SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS' rails 
mightily against the hypocritical ludicrousness of those sworn to 
'Protect and Serve' the citizenry responding to the actions of a single 
dangerous driver by adding a dozen LEA dangerous drivers to the 
equation, and less than a week later Peter Jennings, made manifest as a 
Circle of Eunuchs Initiate by the simple act of declaring it to be so, 
slams an exclaimation mark down to provide an addendum to 'Epilogue 7.3 
Rev. 1.7' by inserting a piece into 'Word News Tonight' which pointed 
out that:
  ~ One-third of those who die in high-speed police chases are 'innocent 
bystanders'.
 ~ 1,000 people a year die in high-speed police chases in California.
 ~ 5,300 people died last year in high-speed police chases in America.
 ~ State laws make it virtually impossible to sue LEAs in order to force
    them to face the consequences of their decisions and actions in the 
same
    manner that is required of other citizens in 'criminal' as well as 
in 'civil'
    court.


The Truth, The Whole Truth, And Nothing But The Truth:

  During the WaterGate debacle, I was listening to a Saskatoon radio 
station on which a 'political expert' from Washington, DC, give his 
opinion of the moral and legal issues surrounding the affair and the 
role which President Nixon played in it. During the call-in 
question/opinion period, I phoned the radio station and proffered the 
opinion that, "If Nixon knew about the affair, then he is a criminal, 
and if he *didn't* know about the affair, then he is incompetent, given 
the fact that the crimes were committed by those in power as a direct 
result of his administrative decisions and choices."
  A few days later I was listening to a mainstream media news broadcast 
in which the news anchor announced that the 'current view' of 
'Washington insiders' was that Nixon was either incompetent, or a 
criminal. The wording made it plain that the 'current view' of 
'Washington insiders' was the direct result of an inastute political 
neophyte from ButtFuck, NoWhere, inadvertantly stumbling upon a Basic 
Truth (TM) which was relevant to the situation--namely, "The Buck Stops 
Here!"
  Not..."The Devil made me do it!"
  Not..."I was betrayed/tricked by those I trusted!"
  Not..."It was the result of the Messages From Mars that I received 
through 
             the fillings in my teeth..."

  "The Buck Stops Here!"
  I knew that, you knew that, and everyone ensconced in the Halls of 
Power who were involved in putting a particular politically-motivated 
spin on the WaterGate affair knew that. Nobody holding a well-paying 
job, with medical and dental benefits, wanted to rock the boat and risk 
changing 'the way things are'. Nobody satisfied with the level of 
welfare benefits they were receiving wanted to rock the boat and risk 
changing 'the way things are'. There were few who refrained from 
recognizing and stating the obvious out of ignorance--most of us/them 
did so as a result of being 'bought off' by our current position in life 
nudging us toward accepting THE LIE in order not to put our established 
and manageable world-view at risk of tumbling down around us as the 
result of a violent assault by THE TRUTH.
  The comfort and safety of a world-view paridigm which was willing to 
accept mutually agreed-upon lies, in order to prevent the boat being 
rocked and subject to swamping, was ripped apart by the voice of a 
TruthMonger, Deep Throat Division, crying in the wilderness, to those 
who had 'ears to hear'.

  My sister was predestined to move to NewAge, California, take a Sufi 
name, purchase a mountain of crystals and become a feminist, 
anti-nuclear, yogurt-eating guru dedicated to the promotion of 
color-therapy as the answer to all of humankind's ills.
  The only reason that Charles Manson chose to have his followers 
slaughter Sharon Tate's Baby, instead of my sister, was because she was 
honest enough to admit, during the height of the Vietnam War Craze, that 
the young men of America were being sent to their deaths in order for 
her to enjoy the benefits of refridgeration which were denied to the 
peasants in Third World countries.
  "G.I. Joe died for Standard Oil's sins..."
  ~ A Communist Sympathizer To Be Named Later

  "The King has no clothes!"
  This is the message of the InterNet...

  "KNixon Knew!"
  This is the message of the InterNet...

  "A thousand points of light, censored by the New World Order!"
  This is the message of the InterNet...

  "If the dangerous, high-speed police chase is being video-taped from a 
helicopter following every move of the 'escaping' vehicle, then why is 
it necessary for the police cars to use flashing lights, sirens and the 
threat of armed violence to exacerbate and add to the bad judgments 
being exhibited by someone who has little or no chance of eluding "Three 
air-units." (Verbatim quote from 'World's Scariest Police Chases' which 
is sexually exciting me, even as we speak.)"
  This is the message of the InterNet...

  When is the last time the subject of government regulation came up in 
a business meeting and, when your opinion was solicited, you stated, "We 
have reached a point where it is morally acceptable to kill the 
bastards, but it is not yet feasible to do so."?
  When is the last time you passed this gem of wisdom from Vin 
Suprynowicz (Vin ThePolishKike to Zen Racists) along to fellow Netizens 
who did not hold the power to immediately affect your life for better or 
 worse by deciding whether or not you would continue to receive a 
paycheck?
  This is the message of the InterNet...

  My WebSite was murdered by Sympatico without warning or explaination, 
as a result of Armed Thugs I had offended violating my inherent right to 
speak the Truth as I perceive it. My computers and those of my relatives 
were confiscated without any warning or explaination, as a result of 
Armed Thugs violating my right to speak the Truth as I perceive it.
  The 'Official RCMP Hate Page' now resides in a hidden file on dozens 
of Canadian government computers, thanks to the efforts of a CypherPunks 
list member who is willing to defend my right to free speech regardless 
of the fact that he has contracted a hit-man to murder me for forging 
posts to the list in his name which made him look like a fucking idiot.
   This is the message of the InterNet...


The Truth, The Half-Truth, And Nothing Remotely Resembling The Truth:

  'The Amazing Randi' (?) is a magician who has gone to great effort to 
expose Uri Geller and debunk his claims of using psychic powers to 
accomplish what magicians can replicate through sleight-of-hand.
  Did 'The Babe' *call* his legendary home-run shot by pointing to the 
location he was planning to bury it, or was it a 'lucky' stretch of his 
muscles before stepping into the batter's box?

  I would be the first to admit that a strong case could be made for 
viewing the 'hard evidence' I point to as proof of the validity of my 
rambling, insane conspiracy theories, as being the result of the 
selective presentation of Reality-Bytes filtered through sieves designed 
to present 'chaff' as a real substance not dependent on the existence of 
an imaginary 'wheat' substance whose existence is promoted by 
underground Reptilian
Nazis hell-bent on world domination.
  I would also be the first to admit that 'coincidence' could account 
for Peter Jennings seemingly fullfilling in MeatSpace his 
Virtually-Assigned role as a Circle of Eunuchs Initiate member by 
providing the hard facts and figures substantiating the views espoused 
by 'Epilogue 7.3 Rev. 1.7' of 'SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS!!!'
Not to mention the fact that 'coincidence' could explain the fact that a 
single reference to 'Thelma & Louise' at the end of the same Epilogue 
was followed by references to the movie in dozens of disparate TV shows 
over the next few days (including an episode of '48 Hours' which showed 
excerpts from 'Thelma & Louise" as I was typing this very paragraph...).

  The fact of the matter is, however, that a lifetime of separating 
'coincidence' from 'synchronicity'--through a process of objective 
evaluation of mathematical probability--has led me to believe that this: 
|<----------->| : is 8", in a parallel universe within which women have 
not yet been given the right to vote.
  Likewise, it is ludicrous to live in a universe in which it is a 
recognized scientific fact that the emissions of a cellular phone can 
affect a radio telescope a hundred kilometers distant, while disallowing 
the possibility that the emissions of a human mind, heart or spirit can 
register on a similarly designed biotechnological receptor in local or 
global proximity to the source of the emissions.
  It is equally ludicrous to fail to recognize that physically 
manifested and disseminated symbols representing the results of human 
thoughts, emotions and concepts will have an effect that is every bit as 
observable and predictable as laws of physics concerning inertia, 
impetus, velocity, acceleration and direction, etc.

  If a decade of scientific investigation into the mechanisms by which 
pigeons find their way home proves to be inconclusive, the pigeons will 
still manage to find their way home. If humans find themselves incapable 
of returning to the place they were born without having a 
birth-certificate and a roadmap, salmon are unlikely to abandon their 
natural ability to do so by virtue of a process which could be viewed as 
'Magical Thinking' by those incapable of reducing the process to a 
solveable MeatSpace equation.
  NewAge 'Magical Thinking' is nothing more nor less than an esoteric 
extension of 'The Power of Positive Thinking' paridigm which is the 
foundation of all subsequent self-help, goal-oriented individual 
accomplishment and corporate management systems which recognize that an 
inspirational thought that results in a single step toward Mecca is more 
effective than a thousand corporate meetings discussing the feasibility 
or futility of putting a journey to Mecca on the agenda of the next 
shareholder's meeting.


How To Get Even Without Breaking The Law / Sweet Revenge:

  I have been fucked a thousand times by the arbitrary, capricious 
decisions and actions of a variety of officially recognized 
Authoritarian Sivil Servants who didn't like my looks, my attitude, or 
my breath. I have also avoided being fucked several thousand times by 
'shaping' my answers to their questions in a manner designed to 
misdirect their peckers as they tried to stick them in my butt.
  When the Canadian Customs & Immigration shit hit the fan, and I was 
forced to appear before an official Board of Inquiry convened to decide 
whether or not I could be denied entry into the country of my youth, I 
found myself forced to abandon all logic and reason, and trust in th Tao 
to protect me as I resorted to telling the  Truth (TM).

  In the face of damning evidence of my slick, conniving manipulation of 
rules, regulations and laws through the use of Damnable Lies!!!, I 
explained my theory of Variable Speed
Truth (TM) to the Board of Inquiry (although I attributed it to Albert 
Einstein, in order to give it more credibility).
  I explained that, as a Border Child, I had grown up in an environment 
which enabled me to understand that 'Rules Is Rules...' is an extremely 
flexible maxim which can be interpreted by an individual Canadian 
Customs & Immigration OffalSir to mean that, even though you have been 
dating his daughter for several years and have been invited over to 
dinner numerous times, that he can legally deny you entry into the 
country and make you drive fifty miles to enter through another Customs 
Port if you fail to have three hundred and forty-two pieces of picture 
ID, particularly if you kept his daughter out past curfew the previous 
weekend.
  I also explained a variety of situations in which I had crossed the 
US/Canadian border more than once on the same day, and claimed residence 
in different countries, because I knew what each border guard wanted to 
hear in order to make my passage proceed more smoothly, as opposed to 
making my life a living hell for no apparent reason other than their own 
misunderstanding of the laws of the country.
    Although I would be the last to downplay the successful result of my 
appeal as being partly the result of the members of the Board of Inquiry 
being decent people who had retained a small part of their soul while 
serving the Great Beast, I fully recognize that the outcome might have 
been completely different if I had failed to properly play my part in 
the Grand Play by hanging my head in shame as my extremely expensive 
legal counsel pointed out to the Board of Inquiry what a sorry, pathetic 
loser I was, and how the only real options in this case would be to 
forgive my trespasses, or take me to the pound and have me put down like 
the poor, sick, mangy dog that I am.

  My point is that, regardless of the letter or spirit of the existing 
laws, it is up to each individual to interpret them in a manner 
consistent with their own best judgement, and to live with the 
consequences of what they truly believe to be 'right action', no matter 
what judgements or punishments may result from people with larger 
weaponry taking the opposite view.
  Of course, I would be foolish to pass judgement upon those who 
recognize the wisdom in grovelling, snivelling, and hanging one's head 
in shame, if it appears to be the path that will allow one to live to 
fight again another day...kind of like faking a limp on the way back to 
the huddle, in order to break for the Big Score.


An Exercise For The Reader:

  I can no longer remember just where this rambling, semi-coherent 
missive was evenutally designed to end up, but I think it has something 
to do with the fact that my unsubtly veiled threats against those with 
False Smiles (TM) has resulted in the glue-sniffing progeny of A 
Wagon-Burner Named Earlier having had the flimsyl, fabricated assault on 
his Charter Rights abandoned by the dropping of all trumped-up charges 
against him.
  However, this has come at the expense of my being called down to local 
Gestapo Headquarters to receive paperwork indicating that I can expect 
to go to eventually go to prison for at least four years as a result of 
Baby's transgression of the 'Dog At Large' bylaws of the Town of 
Bienfait, Saskatchewan.
  Silly me...my drunken, drug-induced paranoia would have me believe 
that much of my current troubles stem from the fact that I am in the 
midst of preparing a legal defense for a Wagon-Burner whose continuing 
persecution by Dudley DoWrong and John Law was one of the subjects 
addressed in "The Official RCMP Hate Page" chapter of 'SPACE ALIENS HIDE 
MY DRUGS!!!', and who is being persecuted by the same Queen's Court 
Bench prosecutor whose ass I used to wipe the floors of the Halls of 
InJustice and then bragged about it to (G)(g)od And Everybody in a 
public forum on the InterNet.

  Anyway, figure out just what point I am trying to make here, consider 
it made, and hit the  key at your own convenience...





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Toto 
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 18:45:17 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: I Can't Help Myself...
Message-ID: <3553ADE2.66AB@sk.sympatico.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


!OB Crypto:

  I crossed the US border today to make a beer run, and a US Customs
officer who has known me for decades took the time and trouble to
'roust' me, as per the instructions of his superiors.
  The last words out of his mouth were a question to which he has long
known the answer: "Where were you born?"

  I was born in Liberal, Kansas.

  Could it possibly be that this fairly decent individual, who has
never done me serious dirt, even when it would have resulted in 
career advancement, is a Secret SypherPunk delivering a cryptic message
that could be translated as, "Toto...I don't think you're in Kansas,
anymore."?

DrunkOnCheapAmericanBeerMindsWantToKnowMonger






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Toto 
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 18:45:21 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Refutation of 'Magical Thinking'
Message-ID: <3553B268.77FA@sk.sympatico.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I decided to do an objective experiment to prove or disprove the 
validity of 'Magical Thinking'.
I shut my eyes and concentrated on psychically willing my TV to provide
me with an indisputably meaningful message relevant to my life.

I turned on the TV, to a random channel, just in time to see/hear 
Dorothy and the ScareCrow singing, "If I Only Had A Brain."

Conclusion: Magical Thinking is BullShit!





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 16:44:57 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: HPC Report
Message-ID: <199805082344.TAA21658@camel7.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Commerce and Defense released Monday a study of 
high performance computers, national security and export
controls which we have transcribed:

   http://jya.com/hpc/hpc.htm  (Contents, execsumm and Chap 1)

The 221-page report provides a detailed survey of HPC 
applications for national security work with recommendations 
for export controls in the light of advances in distributed
and parallel applications. There's are thumbnails of 200 
projects with indexes of power -- with a glance at crypto 
futures.

For brute power the ASCI Red ++ appears to be the 
leader -- and off the chart of customary measurement.

The full report is 1.6MB, and a zipped version is available:

   http://jya.com/hpc/hpc.zip  (1.0MB)


-----

Here's the report's press release:

U. S. Department of Commerce Bureau of Export Administration
May 4, 1998  

Advances in Computer Technology Make Export Controls More Difficult

Washington, D.C. -- Commerce Assistant Secretary Roger Majak and Dave 
Tarbell, director of the Defense Technology Security Administration 
at the Defense Department announced the release of a long-awaited study, 
"High-performance Computing, National Security Applications, and Export 
Control Policy at the Close of the 20th Century," by Dr. Seymour E. 
Goodman, Dr. Peter Wolcott and Dr. Patrick Homer. 

The study has been prepared as part of President Clinton's decision in 
1993 to periodically assess U.S. computer export controls. Today's study 
provides an important contribution to the government's understanding of 
technology trends in the computer industry and national security uses for 
high performance computers.

The study finds that technology is evolving at an astounding rate in the 
HPC industry, rapidly increasing the performance of computers at all levels. 
Key findings include: 1) advancements in microprocessor performance which 
have brought down the costs of HPCs and reduced their size; 2) improvements 
in interconnect devices which have permitted a greater range of products to 
enter the market and helped to make high-performance power more accessible 
and affordable; 3) more open system architectures that contribute to enhanced 
calability; and 4) the ability to network the computing power of smaller 
systems to find solutions to large computational problems.

All of these advancements create challenges for export controls on HPCs. In 
particular, there is growing availability of ever more powerful computers in 
the world marketplace. The market for HPCs is flourishing worldwide with many 
new and used systems for sale through mail order and third party distribution 
systems. The study points out that determining what computing levels can be 
controlled depends on factors such as dependence on vendor support, the 
growing diversity of computer architectures and the scalability of computer 
systems.

An earlier study published by Dr. Goodman and his associates issued in 1995 
predicted that computers with speeds of over 2,000 MTOPS would be widely 
vailable in commercial markets by 1997. Those predictions have proved
correct. 
This new study will be an important reference point for the Administration's 
continuing review of computer controls.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Alan Olsen 
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 20:55:42 -0700 (PDT)
To: "Trei, Peter" 
Subject: Re: DoD orders vendors to use Key "Recovery"
In-Reply-To: <6B5344C210C7D011835C0000F8012766017A75E6@exna01.securitydynamics.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980508204952.040f2d70@clueserver.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 03:05 PM 5/8/98 -0400, Trei, Peter wrote:
>
>
>I hope someone sends them the NSA report on the security hazards of
>KR. 

I think that people should sell the Government crypto software with key
recovery.  We need to have a backdoor into the government's communications.

Any key recovery system sold to the governemtn should have a real obvious
and visible key recovery system so they know that it is there.


>
>Peter Trei
>ptrei@securitydynamics.com
>
>---------------
>http://www.gcn.com/gcn/1998/May4/cov1.htm
>
>GCN May 4, 1998 
>
>Defense wants PKI now 
>Department intends to make vendors use strong encryption 
>By Christopher J. Dorobek 
>
>To jump-start development of a public-key recovery system, the Defense
>Department plans to require its vendors to use strong encryption,
>deputy Defense secretary John Hamre said recently.
>
>Because it wields significant buying clout, Defense's more stringent
>requirements should boost government and industry efforts to build
>systems for managing encryption keys, Hamre said last month at an
>Armed Forces Communications and Electronics Association event in
>Washington.
>
>Agencies cannot wait for the government and industry to settle on a
>national encryption policy, Hamre said.
>
>Through successive administrations, the government has tried to
>develop a singular policy on encryption. But so far, the efforts have
>failed.  Generally, industry has criticized the government's policy
>proposals as too restrictive.
>
>"We have an important national imperative to protect ourselves in this
>world," Hamre said. "We can't wait to have this issue resolved ...
>therefore we're going to buy encryption with key recovery."
>
>Vendors will have to use encrypted data and be able to recover it when
>doing business with DOD, he said.
>
>Defense will work out a final policy in the coming weeks, Hamre said.
>
>[...]
>
---
|              "That'll make it hot for them!" - Guy Grand               |
|"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmermann unites all| Disclaimer:         |
| mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!"  | Ignore the man      |
|`finger -l alano@teleport.com` for PGP 2.6.2 key  | behind the keyboard.|
|         http://www.ctrl-alt-del.com/~alan/       |alan@ctrl-alt-del.com|




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: postmaster@mail.opentown.com
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 21:28:50 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Opentown proudly announces 50,000 membership Anniversary Giveaway Festival
Message-ID: <199805090428.VAA24848@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

50000ȸżř µąĆıâłä "çŔş ´ëĂŕÁ¦!



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Çŕ"ç±â°Ł : 98.5.7 ~ 6.5 (30ŔĎ°Ł)



ˇÚ Çŕ"ç 1. °ÔŔÓ żě1/4öŔÚ "çŔş ´ëĂŕÁ¦

1/41/4°čżˇ1/4­ ÇŃ°ł"ÓŔĚ ĆŻş°ÇŃ 1/21/2*Ô¸Ó1/2(r)Ŕ" Áń±â1/2øç 30ŔĎ°Ł °ÔŔÓÇŃ °á°úÁß ĂÖ°í

Áˇ1/4ö¸¦ 3/4ňŔş "óŔ§ 1,000¸íżˇ°Ô 

µđÁöĹĐÄ"¸Ţ¶ó, PCSČŢ´ëĆů, MGMżŔ¸(r)ÁöłŻ Ä"ÁöłëĨ ż­1/4č°í¸(r), żŔÇŸżî Ä"Áöłë

¸đŔÚ, ±âŸ ÇůÂů"ç °ćÇ°µîŔ" 

ą"·á·Î ÁőÁ¤ ÇŐ´Ď´Ů.

     

ˇÚ Çŕ"ç 2. Ăִ٠ȸżř°ˇŔÔ ĂßõŔÚ "çŔş ´ëĂŕÁ¦

Çŕ"ç±â°Ł µż3/4Č 1/2Ĺ±Ô Č¸żřŔ" ĂÖ´Ů*Î °ˇŔÔ ±ÇŔŻ 1/2ĂŲ ȸżř 5¸íżˇ°Ô °˘°˘ PCSČŢ´ëĆů

1´ë3/4żŔ" ÁőÁ¤ ÇŐ´Ď´Ů.



ˇÚ Çŕ"ç 3. ¸Ĺ 5,000¸í° 1/2ű԰ˇŔÔ  ȸżř Çŕżî ´ëĂŕÁ¦ 

1/2Ĺ±Ô °ˇŔÔ ÇĎ1/2ŠȸżřÁß ¸Ĺ 5,000ąř° ȸżř żˇ°Ô´Â °˘°˘ PCSČŢ´ëĆů 1´ë3/4żŔ"

ÁőÁ¤ÇŐ´Ď´Ů. 



"çŔşÇŕ"çżÍ ´őşŇ3/4î Ä"Áöłë°ÔŔÓµµ ą"*á*Î Áń±â1/41/4żä.

·ę·ż, µĺ·ÎżěĆ÷Ä", şí·˘Ŕč, ąŮÄ"¶ó, 1/21/2*Ô¸Ó1/2(r), °í1/2şĹé°ÔŔÓŔĚ 1/4­şń1/2şÁßżˇ ŔÖŔ¸¸ç



Çŕ"ç1/2ĂŔŰ°ú ´őşŇ3/4î µąŔĚÁţ°í¶Ż, Ĺ°łë, Ä"¸(r)şń3/4ČĆ÷Ä", Ȧ´ýĆ÷Ä"°ˇ Ăß°ˇ*Î 1/4­şń1/2şµË´Ď´

Ů.



żŔÇŸżî¸¸ŔÇ µ¶ĆŻÇŃ ŔÚąŮäĆõµ ÁŘşńµÇ3/4î ŔÖ1/2Ŕ´Ď´Ů.  "ö´Ů¸Ą äĆĂŔÇ ą¦ąĚ¸¦

´Ŕ˛¸ş¸1/41/4żä.





Good Luck!








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Paul H. Merrill" 
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 21:30:24 -0700 (PDT)
To: Toto 
Subject: Re: Dialogue - SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS!!!
In-Reply-To: <3553A2E3.2E06@sk.sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <3554061D.E500FC22@acm.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Would have been ROFLMAO if it weren't so true.

Toto wrote:
>You Have A Right To Remain Silent! Anything You Say Will Be Misquoted, 
>And Then Used Against You:




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 17:57:34 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Dialogue ------ Space Aliens Hide My Drugs!
Message-ID: <199805090057.CAA15826@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


ROTFLMAO!

  "Ask not who your country can Nuke for you...ask who you can Nuke for
your country."
~ Timothy C. McKennedy, President of Samsonite Peripherals, Inc.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Rabid Wombat 
Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 14:45:32 -0700 (PDT)
To: Sunder 
Subject: Re: [Fwd: 3Com switches - undocumented access level.]
In-Reply-To: <355372B4.C837F915@brainlink.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Since you didn't specify the method of access. it is hard to determine if
this is a large security hole. Most equipment can be rebooted and brought
up without a password IF you have local access. For example, Cisco routers
can be brought up without password simply by specifying the starting
address of the load file, but you have to be at the local console to do
this. 

UNIX systems can be brought up w/o password in single-user mode, if you 
have local access. Yes, there are firmware passwords to guard against 
this on many systems, but one can always swap up the eeprom, etc.

I'd only be worried about the 3Com backdoor if it can be used remotely.
Got any details?

-r.w.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim McQueeney 
Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 11:58:21 -0700 (PDT)
To: John Young 
Subject: Re: 1997 Wiretap Report
In-Reply-To: <199805091831.OAA29612@camel14.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3554A738.F7C3B5A2@lava.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


John Young wrote:
> 
> The US Courts 1997 Wiretap Report is out:
> 
>    http://jya.com/wiretap97.htm
> 
> Total: 1,094, up 59 from 1996; 206 "electronic."
> 
> 374 taps in this nabe; dozens in this bldg, six in
> this flat, a couple on this box, one under lip
> counting morse teethgrinds.
>


Those reported are *only* the aauthorized wiretaps; I wonder,
how many unauthorized wiretaps were made?  I guess we'll
never know... 


-- 
Jim McQueeney  ICQ: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/719836 
***************   PGP Keys on public key servers:   ***************
RSA 1024/0x45A3FB5D FP/9AEF4C97 E35437D6 434CF20C 6D4D075E  *******
D/H 1024/0xA82248FD FP/F77BC061 45BF05EF FFB7AC2B C7F07C21 A82248FD




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Frantz 
Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 09:47:45 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: HPC Report
In-Reply-To: <199805082344.TAA21658@camel7.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


If the export control people are worried about people designing nuclear
weapons, it should be noted that the US managed to design weapons with
computers like the CDC 6600 and 7600 that make today's PCs look fast.
Today's PCs have more memory and bigger, faster disks too.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz       | If hate must be my prison  | Periwinkle -- Consulting
(408)356-8506     | lock, then love must be    | 16345 Englewood Ave.
frantz@netcom.com | the key.     - Phil Ochs   | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Frantz 
Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 09:46:05 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: U.S. Navy caught hacking into British marine charity Web site
In-Reply-To: <355450B4.28BA4217@whitehouse.gov>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 4:48 AM -0800 5/9/98, Spam the President wrote:
>http://www.infoworld.com/cgi-bin/displayStory.pl?98058.winavy.htm
>
>  U.S. Navy caught hacking
>  into British marine
>  charity Web site
>
>  By Kristi Essick
>  InfoWorld Electric
>
>  Posted at 3:07 PM PT, May 8, 1998
>  ...
>
>  "I think whoever it was within the U.S. Navy
>  facility would have better things to do rather than
>  try and hack into our computers," said Chris
>  Stroud, the organization's director of campaigns,
>  in a statement. "If they were seeking reports on
>  the Black Sea, we shall be freely publishing these
>  in the near future anyway."

Consider the possibility that someone hacked into the Navy's computer and
then used it as a base to hack the Marine Mammal Charity site.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz       | If hate must be my prison  | Periwinkle -- Consulting
(408)356-8506     | lock, then love must be    | 16345 Englewood Ave.
frantz@netcom.com | the key.     - Phil Ochs   | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 07:25:08 -0700 (PDT)
To: Digital Bearer Settlement List 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I suppose all of you have figured out by now what we're not doing a Digital
Bearer Settlement Business Development Conference at Bretton Woods this
August. :-).

I was willing to give it a shot, even with the admittedly high cost in
hotel rooms, if I could get presenters on the topics I wanted. If I got the
presenters, I could use the content to leverage the keynote speakers, and,
with those, I think I would have gotten the attendance.  Unfortunately, I
couldn't find anyone, with exactly two exceptions, who both knew enough on
the topics I was soliciting and who had the time to come to Bretton Woods.

In the process of figuring out all that out, however, something entirely
different presented itself, and thinking about *that* gave me another set
of conference ideas, which I want to bounce off you guys in just a bit. I
suppose don't really give up on ideas once I get them, though they may get
pushed down on the stack for a while. It's that Frisian expression of the
berserker gene thing, I guess... :-).


So, I was figuring out how I could sweeten the pot for presenters for the
Bretton Woods thing, when I bumped into the editor of a well-known book
:-). This got me to thinking about a book on digital bearer settlement,
containing the contents of this summer's proposed conference, written in
chapters by the presenters of the conference. I talked to the editor about
this, and she said that she didn't like books written by a cast of
thousands, and since we were talking about new technology with no user base
and she was a technical and professional books editor, she was going to
have a hard time selling something like this to her market. However, if a
single person wanted write a book on digital bearer settlement, it seemed
like there might be more room to bash it into something her audience might
want to read. Since *I* didn't want to write a book, really, we sort of
left it at that.

About a week or two later, Pete Loshin, who now works as an editor for
Cutter Publications, invited me to come and stir things up at their
"Summit" conference, and sit on an internet commerce panel, which I've
already told you the story about.  While there, however, I talked to
several authors of books, and one of them, a pretty well-respected author
of hard-core IT computer books, told me that my whole geodesic society /
digital bearer settlement thing was something actually new to him, and that
he so rarely heard something new in his business. So, he encouraged me to
get started on a "trade" book, one for the general public, and spent about
an hour telling me how to get started.

So, when I got home, all excited, and I started bashing away on the popular
book I've been threatening to write for years on all this stuff.  Unlike a
technical and professional book, the typical first author doesn't get
advances for this kind of thing, so you have to write the whole thing in
advance and see what happens. So, we'll see what happens.

And then, something wierd happened. Kieth Dawson's TBTF newsletter did a
bit on me, Philodox, the dbs list and the conference, and, out of that, I
got email from *another* well-known editor asking me if I knew anyone who
wanted to do a book on micropayments or something. So, I got this guy on
the phone, cranked up the reality distortion field to 13  (monkeys flying),
and pitched him on a book on digital bearer settlement, using the content
request from the Bretton Woods conference call for presenters as a jumping
off point. He then asked me if I could do something a little more polemical
:-), and I sent that version off, but I think I scared him away. :-). I
haven't heard back from him, and I suppose he lost interest.

However, Tuesday, I met up with the original famous-book editor, the one I
was trying to pitch the conference book to, and told her what I had done
with the *other* editor on a digital bearer settlement book, and she wanted
to see it. She liked the first, unpolemic, version best, :-), and we're
still talking, which is a good sign.


So, all of this got me to thinking about how I want to proceed with my
proposed conference schedule.

I still want to do a conference this summer. Some kind of "gathering of the
clan" thing on the same order as the mac-crypto conferences Vinnie and I
do, but, of course, I have to make money on it.  Essentially, I'd put out
an open call for papers/presenters, bunch them together on the schedule
together roughly by content, and call it a program, just like I do for
mac-crypto. I wouldn't be reimbursing speakers or anything. People who
speak pay to see the rest of the conference, in essence, just like they do
at FCxx

After that, I'd start working on putting together a peer-reviewed
conference, hopefully in New York, but maybe Washington, where I'd had a
tentative offer. The problem with the Washington offer is that it's at a
university and I have to make money on this. I'm not a sinecured academic
;-), or even someone who has a day job. :-). That was the problem with
IFCA's takover of FCxx, the upside kind of went away for me. Oh, well, at
least I get credit for the idea. And three more trips to wherever the
conference goes as a member of IFCA's board.

Anyway, this doing conferences for profit is also why I can't use a
university location in the Boston area for this digital bearer settlement
developer's conference as well.

Finally, I'd still like to go to Bretton Woods again, but *next* summer,
and with a Workshop, with paid *paid* presenters, which is what this
summer's business development conference should have been all along. Maybe,
if I'm lucky, and the digital bearer settlement book's out, it'll be the
text book for this thing, or something.


So, let's look at this "gathering of the clan" idea first.  Because of all
the problems people had with the prices at Bretton Woods, I started
thinking of all kinds of ways to do it on the cheap.

Stuff like renting the Sons of Italy Hall here in Roslindale, my Boston
neighborhood. Which is not as dumb to do as it was, say, two years ago. The
crime rate in Boston, especially Roslindale/Hyde Park, which is now the
mayor's neighborhood, has fallen rediculously lately, and Roslindale's
undergoing a boomlet of sorts, with lots of new businesses, including a
couple of proto-bohemian cafes, a new grocery store, stuff like that. The
neighborhood is scruffy and full of new immigrants and said
freshly-installed bohemians, and a digital bearer settlement conference
here would feel about the same in terms of culture-clash as FC98 was on
Anguilla, which would be kind of cool. I think I could get a couple of
phone lines in to the hall, and, if I dropped a couple of routers and 56k
modems on them, I could get better bandwidth than we had in Anguilla, even.
;-). Of course, Roslindale in mid-July or early August is not quite
Anguilla in February, but, I still think it would have the same
foriegn-place *extremely* casual atmosphere. No beach, much less total
eclipse off the Montserrat Volcano, of course, but, well, you get the
point: "Hackers invade Roslindale. Film at 11."  The local business
development association would probably love me for it, probably as much as
the Anguillans love Vince for FCxx, which, of course, would have its
attractions for me as a local resident.

However, I still haven't talked to the manager of the hall, and I'm not
sure the place has air-conditioning (it has to, right?), much less
telephone lines, much less touchtone lines. Seriously. Not to mention that
I'd be hanging myself out to dry on deposits, and stuff, if nobody showed
up. Much less that I'd have to collect checks from people up front before I
could even make reservations for all this stuff. Having a credit card
merchant account would be nice, but it's still impossible at the moment.

Thinking about this very problem, I sent feelers out at this month's DCSB
meeting for the use of a company's net-wired auditorium-seating conference
room instead, to see if I could get it by way of sponsorship of the
conference. This would also reduce costs a bunch, but I haven't heard from
anyone on this, so it's probably a long shot at this point.


But, then, after DCSB that day, I was talking to the catering manager at
the Harvard Club, and, just as a kind of pro-forma thing, I asked him for a
small 2-day conference estimate for, say, 30-35 people. Because of all the
business I bring him with DCSB, he quoted me something which was
rediculously low in terms of my own financial exposure if things went
south. It's not like the Club is busy in the summer, when all the bankers
and lawyers go off to places like the Cape and the Vinyard anyway, so he
sees me as a safe way to get some new business in the door. And, since the
Club function rooms aren't booked up this time of the year, I could cancel
anytime up to a week in advance of the date if my attendance wasn't enough,
because I'd be bringing him "found money" anyway.

So, for about half the price of attending any business conference in a
downtown conference hotel, we could have something really nice in the
Harvard Club, 38 stories up, with harbor views, decent food, and
comfortable surroundings to schmooze in. There's the complication of the
jacket requirement, but, if we started on Thursday, Friday's a "business
casual" day, so we'd have only one day of dress code to contend with.  In
addition, I think dbs and dcsb folks, as more business and finance oriented
types, are more inclined deal to a single "dress-up" day than just plain
crypto folks, so I think this could wash.

The price for a Harvard Club version of, what?, "Digital Bearer Settlement
Developer's Conference", "Symposium?", whatever, including Net access like
we had at FC98, and A/V, and maybe video/audio taping or even netcasting,
if I can get the rights hocked off for a percentage or something, would be
on the order of $400 per person, including breakfast, lunch, and a cocktail
party the first night, and of course, paying me. :-). Getting lodging would
be up to you, but at least you're not locked into a $400/night room like we
were at Bretton Woods. I would bet most folks could find friends to crash
with, if it came to that.

I haven't priced the "Hackers Invade Roslindale" option, but I'd be happy
to do that instead if there's real interest in it. I'd just need to collect
money from people almost immediately to get started.

Frankly, I like either option.  They both sound cool.


I'm thinking about July 23-24 at the moment. In the same spirit of
"first-ever, last-minute" that we did mac-crypto in, of course.


So, folks, what do we want to do?

Contact me directly if you have questions on what particulars there are at
the moment, or, especially, if you want to speak at this thing. If there's
interest coalescing around one idea or another, I'll put out a "formal"
call for presenters pretty soon.

Also, if you want to chat publically about this conference or digital
bearer settlement in general, I figure the dbs@philodox.com list is the
best place to do this. It keeps the cross-posting and off-topic stuff on
other lists to a minimum. Here's the URL to subscribe:




Cheers,
Bob Hettinga



-----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 11:31:12 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: 1997 Wiretap Report
Message-ID: <199805091831.OAA29612@camel14.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


The US Courts 1997 Wiretap Report is out:

   http://jya.com/wiretap97.htm

Total: 1,094, up 59 from 1996; 206 "electronic." 

374 taps in this nabe; dozens in this bldg, six in
this flat, a couple on this box, one under lip
counting morse teethgrinds.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Michael Froomkin - U.Miami School of Law" 
Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 11:42:01 -0700 (PDT)
To: remailer@replay.com
Subject: Re: FILED 98 MAY - 8 AM 11:31
In-Reply-To: <3553504B.6AA9@nmol.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


:: 
Anon-To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
      

This spam-proofed message was sent by Michael Froomkin.
To reply privately, send mail to my surname at law.tm

[cc's trimmed!]


Lest anyone be mislead, this filing is garbage.  I find particularly
ridiculous the idea that a court can only cite cases submitted by the
parties.  On the contrary, the court's duty is to cite the law correctly,
and thus to ignore anything inaccurate or irrelevant submitted by the
parties and to supplement where and when needed.  Nowhere is this duty
clearer when, as here, one side is not represented by counsel; as it
happens, the court exercises this duty to supplement _to help_ the pro se
plaintiff, not hurt it.

I have not followed the pleadings very carefully in this case, so I won't 
express a view on the merits except to say that having attempted to read
plaintiffs' submissions I was not able to figure out much about what merit
their case was supposed to have.  

Were I to be asked by a pro se plaintiff how to best present their case in
federal court, I would say:  don't try to write legalistically.  Use the
case caption at the top of the first page, as provided by the rules of
court, then identify who you are, and who you are suing in the first
paragraphs, then tell your story in plain and simple English with as few
legalisms as possible.  If you have a particular statute or statutes in
mind that you think were violated, do specify them, but also ask for
whatever other relief the court may find just or equitable so as to
preserve all your options. 

Legalistic mumbo-jumbo is NOT required, and only gets in the way of
telling your story.  Attacking the court is stupid, both because it
usually isn't justified and because it never achieves anything.


A. Michael Froomkin        | +1 (305) 284-4285; +1 (305) 284-6506 (fax)
Associate Professor of Law |
U. Miami School of Law     |
P.O. Box 248087            |
Coral Gables, FL 33124 USA | It's @#$#@ hot here.








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Spam the President 
Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 06:48:25 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: U.S. Navy caught hacking into British marine charity Web site
Message-ID: <355450B4.28BA4217@whitehouse.gov>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


http://www.infoworld.com/cgi-bin/displayStory.pl?98058.winavy.htm

  U.S. Navy caught hacking
  into British marine
  charity Web site 

  By Kristi Essick 
  InfoWorld Electric 

  Posted at 3:07 PM PT, May 8, 1998 
  The U.S. Navy has been caught attempting to
  break in to secure areas of a World Wide Web
  site sponsored by a U.K. marine-mammal
  preservation charity, according to officials at the
  organization. 

  The Whale and Dolphin Conservation Society
  (WDCS) -- which operates an online shopping
  site aimed at generating money for the welfare of
  the animals at http://www.wdcs-shop.com --
  said it was alerted to the attempted break-in last
  week by its site-hosting company, Merchant
  Technology Ltd. 

  "We were working late one night, and a
  command line request came in wanting to access
  unauthorized areas of the site," said Andy Fisher,
  marketing manager for Merchant. "We were
  amazed to find out it was the Pentagon." 

  Merchant built and manages the secure
  electronic-commerce site for the conservation
  society and routinely keeps an eye on who visits.
  If users attempt to gain access to unauthorized
  areas, the company is alerted to the source of the
  incoming request. 

  At 9:45 p.m. GMT on April 28, Fisher said,
  workers at Merchant were shocked to see an
  incoming attempt to breach security by a user
  identified as donhqns1.hq.navy.mil. 

  Merchant got in touch with WDCS immediately,
  only to find out that the charity had been
  contacted by the Navy a few weeks earlier. The
  Navy was interested in obtaining a report the
  group is working on that details the efforts of
  Russian animal experts to train dolphins in the
  Black Sea for military tasks, such as finding and
  attaching probes to submarines, Fisher said. 

  A WDCS representative said that there is
  nothing secret about the Russian government's
  activities in this area but that the document does
  contain information about the export of the
  trained dolphins to foreign countries. The group
  declined to give the Navy a copy of the report
  only because it was not complete at the time.
  Once it is made final, the report will be published
  and the Navy can then examine it, the
  representative said. 

  The WCDS said that it is confused about why the
  Navy would attempt to break in to its Web site. 

  "I think whoever it was within the U.S. Navy
  facility would have better things to do rather than
  try and hack into our computers," said Chris
  Stroud, the organization's director of campaigns,
  in a statement. "If they were seeking reports on
  the Black Sea, we shall be freely publishing these
  in the near future anyway." 

  The WCDS previously has commented
  unfavorably on Navy activities such as its
  low-frequency sonar trials off Hawaii and on
  ship collisions with endangered whales, the
  group said. 

  Merchant says it is "100 percent sure" the
  hacking attempt originated from the Navy.
  WDCS has notified the U.S. Embassy in London
  and the relevant U.K. authorities, the
  organization said. 

  "We hope that the U.S. authorities have some
  rational explanation for this incident," Stroud
  said. 

  "The Navy has not yet received a formal
  complaint on the issue," said a Navy official, who
  declined to be named. "Until the Navy receives a
  formal complaint with details, there's not much
  we can do to proceed further." 

  Merchant Technology Ltd., in Bath, England, can
  be reached at 44 (1225) 481 015. The Whale and
  Dolphin Conservation Society, also in Bath, can
  be reached at 44 (1225) 334 511 or
  http://www.wdcs.org. 

  Kristi Essick is a London correspondent for the
  IDG News Service, an InfoWorld affiliate.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: mgraffam@mhv.net
Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 13:15:12 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: corvette.bxa.doc.gov followup
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

This message describes a computer on the Internet, one
corvette.bxa.doc.gov (192.239.70.124) (hereafter corvette). This computer
is owned by the Bureau of Export Administration (hereafter BXA), which
itself is a branch of the Dept. of Commerce.

Here I am exploring the idea that corvette runs a bot that scans the
internet for materials regarding crypto export violation, and I
will raise a few questions in regards to this.

- From the BXA web page (www.bxa.doc.gov):

   The Bureau of Export Administration enhances the nation's security and
   its economic prosperity by controlling exports for national security,
   foreign policy, and short supply reasons. We administer the Export
   Administration Act by developing export control policies, issuing
   export licenses, and prosecuting violators. Additionally, BXA enforces
   the EAA's antiboycott provisions.    

A traceroute (timings excluded) from my computer system (a SLIP/PPP dialup
to MhvNet, located in Poughkeepsie NY) to corvette yields: 

 1  annex1 (199.0.0.10)
 2  router.mhv.net (199.0.0.1)
 3  sl-gw8-pen-3-4-T1.sprintlink.net (144.228.160.41)
 4  sl-bb1-pen-9-0-0.sprintlink.net (144.228.60.11)
 5  144.228.180.10 (144.228.180.10)
 6  nyc4-br2.bbnplanet.net (4.0.2.178)
 7  nyc4-nbr2.bbnplanet.net (4.0.5.29)
 8  vienna1-nbr2.bbnplanet.net (4.0.3.129)
 9  vienna1-nbr3.bbnplanet.net (4.0.5.46)
10  washdc1-br1.bbnplanet.net (4.0.1.89)
11  washdc1-cr1.bbnplanet.net (4.0.1.174)
12  docosesa.bbnplanet.net (192.221.253.3)
13  corvette.bxa.doc.gov (192.239.70.124)

It is especially useful to notice hops 10 and 11. The names of these two
hosts seem to indicate that the hops have tended towards Washington DC.
BBNPlanet is located in Washington, so it is probable that corvette
is too (though this is not necessarily true). 

On April 22nd 1998, an anonymous connection was made from corvette to my
personal computer, ismene. This connection is only possible through my
main web page which is located on spice.mhv.net, which then links to
my computer. This mechanism is needed because ismene gets a dynamic IP.

Spice's logs show: 

corvette.bxa.doc.gov - - [22/Apr/1998:14:05:49 -0400] "GET /~mgraffam 
	HTTP/1.0" 302 -
corvette.bxa.doc.gov - - [22/Apr/1998:14:05:50 -0400] "GET /~mgraffam/
	HTTP/1.0" 200 2019
corvette.bxa.doc.gov - - [22/Apr/1998:14:06:16 -0400] "GET
	/~mgraffam/misc/access.html HTTP/1.0" 200 629

The connector from corvette directly targeted my homepage, and then
immediately went to the page that accesses ismene. The connector bypassed
a page about crypto titled "Cryptotechnic Enlightenment". It is, perhaps,
this odd combination of words that escaped a bot's notice, but would have
surely been noticed by human. Instead the alleged bot picked up on
"access.html" and left links to my RSA and PGP public keys untouched. If
corvette is running a bot, it seems probable that they would ignore PGP
keys because they surely generate a large amount of noise when
exploring things of a cryptographic nature. This may account for the
behavior. 

The access.html on spice has links to my computer. HTTP, FTP and telnet
links are established, and direct links are made to copies of my public
keys. The first three links to my keys via FTP are bypassed, and a 
connection is made via HTTP to my computer (ismene). The portions from
ismene's httpd log follow:

corvette.bxa.doc.gov - - [22/Apr/1998:13:58:51 -0400] "GET / HTTP/1.0" 200 1858
corvette.bxa.doc.gov - - [22/Apr/1998:13:59:48 -0400] "GET /crypto_index.zip
	HTTP/1.0" 200 19570

Corvette picks up the crypto_index.zip file, and leaves links titled
"Index of unfinished works" and "Misc. projects". That corvette picked
up the crypto_index.zip file establishes that it is looking for crypto
related material. Why did it pass up the "Cryptotechnic Enlightenment"
page then? I submit that it is because the word "cryptotechnic" did not
trip the bot's sensor but the word "crypto" in the link title to
crypto_index.zip did. I also believe that a human would have followed the
"unfinished works" or "misc projects" links after getting a crypto
index file. A human would be intelligent enough to intuit the connection;
a spider is not.

At this point, I imagine the bot reaching the end of ismene's main page,
having picked up the file it thought was useful and returning back to
the access.html file on spice and traversing to the next link.

In this case, it is an ftp connection to my machine. A portion of my logs:

Apr 22 14:00:13 localhost opieftpd[1509]: connect from 
	firewall-user@192.239.70.124
Apr 22 14:00:14 localhost ftpd[1509]: connection from corvette.bxa.doc.gov
	at We d Apr 22 14:00:14 1998 
Apr 22 14:00:15 localhost ftpd[1509]: Anonymous FTP connection made from
	host corvette.bxa.doc.gov.
Apr 22 14:00:16 localhost ftpd[1509]: ANONYMOUS FTP login from
	corvette.bxa.doc.gov with ID mozilla@

After logging in corvette issues the following commands:

Apr 22 14:00:22 localhost ftpd[1509]: <--- 200 Type set to I.
Apr 22 14:00:23 localhost ftpd[1509]: command: SIZE /^M 
Apr 22 14:00:23 localhost ftpd[1509]: <--- 550 /: not a plain file.
Apr 22 14:00:25 localhost ftpd[1509]: command: CWD /^M 
Apr 22 14:00:25 localhost ftpd[1509]: <--- 250 CWD command successful.
Apr 22 14:00:28 localhost ftpd[1509]: command: LIST^M 
Apr 22 14:00:29 localhost ftpd[1509]: <--- 150 Opening BINARY mode data
	connection for /bin/ls.
Apr 22 14:00:29 localhost ftpd[1509]: <--- 226 Transfer complete.
Apr 22 14:00:35 localhost ftpd[1509]: command: PORT 192,239,70,124,7,228^M 
Apr 22 14:00:35 localhost ftpd[1509]: <--- 200 PORT command successful.
Apr 22 14:00:36 localhost ftpd[1509]: command: SIZE /pub/^M 
Apr 22 14:00:36 localhost ftpd[1509]: <--- 550 /pub/: not a plain file.
Apr 22 14:00:39 localhost ftpd[1509]: command: CWD /pub/^M 
Apr 22 14:00:39 localhost ftpd[1509]: <--- 250 CWD command successful.
Apr 22 14:00:40 localhost ftpd[1509]: command: LIST^M 
Apr 22 14:00:40 localhost ftpd[1509]: <--- 150 Opening BINARY mode data
	connection for /bin/ls.
Apr 22 14:00:40 localhost ftpd[1509]: <--- 226 Transfer complete.
Apr 22 14:00:47 localhost ftpd[1509]: command: PORT 192,239,70,124,7,235^M 
Apr 22 14:00:47 localhost ftpd[1509]: <--- 200 PORT command successful.
Apr 22 14:00:48 localhost ftpd[1509]: command: SIZE /pub/skey/^M 
Apr 22 14:00:48 localhost ftpd[1509]: <--- 550 /pub/skey/: not a plain file.
Apr 22 14:00:50 localhost ftpd[1509]: command: CWD /pub/skey/^M 
Apr 22 14:00:50 localhost ftpd[1509]: <--- 250 CWD command successful.
Apr 22 14:00:51 localhost ftpd[1509]: command: LIST^M 
Apr 22 14:00:51 localhost ftpd[1509]: <--- 150 Opening BINARY mode data
	connection for /bin/ls.
Apr 22 14:00:51 localhost ftpd[1509]: <--- 226 Transfer complete.
Apr 22 14:01:08 localhost ftpd[1509]: command: PORT 192,239,70,124,8,1^M 
Apr 22 14:01:08 localhost ftpd[1509]: <--- 200 PORT command successful.
Apr 22 14:01:08 localhost ftpd[1509]: command: SIZE /pub/skey/README^M 
Apr 22 14:01:08 localhost ftpd[1509]: <--- 213 1149
Apr 22 14:01:09 localhost ftpd[1509]: command: RETR /pub/skey/README^M 

This series of commands ignores a directory called "keys" at root level,
which is consistent with ignoring PGP keys above, and cd's to pub/skey.
It then retrieves the README file (which is just a copy of NRL's readme)
and leaves. The connection style itself (of SIZE'ing directory names)
is odd, but this can be recreated with older versions of Netscape
Navigator. 

I will assume that these connections are really from Netscape, and _not_
from a bot disguising itself as NS Navigator. 

Greg Broiles (gbroiles@netbox.com) forwarded portions of his logs on
parrhesia to me:

corvette.bxa.doc.gov - - [20/Mar/1998:10:18:07 -0800] "GET /wassenaar/
HTTP/1.0" 200 2253
"http://search.excite.com/search.gw?collection=web&display=html2,lb&search=w
assenaar+countries" "Mozilla/2.0 (compatible; MSIE 3.02; Windows 3.1)"

corvette.bxa.doc.gov - - [20/Mar/1998:10:18:46 -0800] "GET /wassenaar/
HTTP/1.0" 200 2253 "-" "Mozilla/2.0 (compatible; MSIE 3.02; Windows 3.1)"

These shows connections from MSIE, can anyone confirm that MSIE makes
FTP requests in the same manner as NS? 

Here I raise two questions that I would like to discuss, in private email
if needed because it is off-topic. First, could Navigator be made to
crawl the web? Could it be programmed via OLE, or Java? If it could, then
it could easily be used as the protocol frontend to a spider that could
easily crawl http, ftp, gopher, and news references looking for crypto
export violations.

If programming Navigator would entail pushing keystrokes into the keyboard
buffer and simulating mouse events, I do not believe it would be used as
tying up a machine's console in this manner would be vastly inefficient
and it would be better justified to pay a programmer to develop the
software to do it without NS.

Now I would like to focus on a different aspect of my logs: the
identification of a firewall-users@192.239.70.124. It seems as if
corvette is a proxy server for other machines.

A port probe of corvette yields the following services:

corvette.bxa.doc.gov           ftp                 21/tcp 
corvette.bxa.doc.gov           smtp                25/tcp mail
corvette.bxa.doc.gov           whois               43/tcp nicname
corvette.bxa.doc.gov           gopher              70/tcp
corvette.bxa.doc.gov           finger              79/tcp 
corvette.bxa.doc.gov           www                 80/tcp http

ismene:~$ finger @corvette.bxa.doc.gov
[corvette.bxa.doc.gov]
        Finger from your system is not permitted through the firewall.

ismene:~$ ftp corvette.bxa.doc.gov
Connected to corvette.bxa.doc.gov.
220-Proxy first requires authentication
220 corvette.bxa.doc.gov FTP proxy (Version 3.2) ready.

- From these two connections, we can see that corvette is indeed a
firewalling proxy. Because of this, we cannot be sure if all connections
out of corvette belong to the possible spider.

An altavista search for corvette.bxa.doc.gov turns up the web statistics
logs of several servers, including military and foreign servers. 
Such a bot may crawl foreign servers looking for links or files from the
U.S., and it may crawl military sites to see to it that regulated
materials are not being exported (like the pgp fiasco). On the other hand,
this is mere speculation, it is equally likely that humans at BXA are
putzing around the net, looking at different sites.

This latter fact can be established (or we must admit to an incredibly
wide reaching bot that is not limited to crypto) because spice.mhv.net
has logged connections from corvette to www.mhv.net/~donn/diet.html
which is the main page for a health/fitness related hierarchy. It is
apparently a popular site for that material and is linked to frequently
by other sites. It is possible that a bot crawled around this way, but
unlikely since from the evidence on my machine the bot (if it is one)
is fairly discriminating about the links it follows.

Humans use the corvette proxy.

It is hard to tell which links drew corvette's attention from those sites
that were hit up. Here is an attempt at a classification of sites that
get connections from corvette:

* Physics:
  nsi.net.kiae.su, a nuclear safety institute, keeps a log specifically of
  U.S. government computers that have connected to them. Corvette made 65
  requests to nsi.net.kiae.su. 

  University of Crete Physics Dept. (www.edu.physics.uch.gr) 21 times.

* Other Science and Technology:
  The Bioscan project at genome.cs.unc.edu was hit twice.
  
  The BCD (Biological Computing Division) of the Weizmann Institute in
  Israel was hit 9 times.

  CSIRO Minerals, www.csiro.au, was hit 1.

  The Texas Agricultural Extension Service was hit twice.

* Political:
  www.tbs-sct.gc.ca the Canadian Treasury Board was hit once. 

* Military:
  The U.S. Army's Signal Corps was hit 13 times.


Several universities were hit as well, presumably because of a student
pages. Other miscellaneous sites that were hit include a martial arts
page, a personal interests page and a porn page. 

The urls for the pages in question are included below.

If this sample of sites is representative of the connections made by 
corvette, then physics sites make up the bulk of those connections.

No verifiable connections were made to crypto related sites other than my
own. I do not know why the connections were made to the universities,
I figure that it is because of student interests.

Given the nature of BXA's mission, and the sort of material that I make
available on my homepage on spice I still find it strange that the 
"Cryptotechnic Enlightenment" page was passed by. This is underscored
by the fact that the "Misc." and "Unfinished" links were passed up,
even when corvette is obviously looking for crypto stuff (by getting
crypto_index.zip).

However, there is a general lack of relevent connections made to crypto
related sites by corvette on the internet as a whole. If corvette is
proxying a bot, I think that the bot may be targeted at individuals 
and is not a wide-spread intelligence gathering device. 

I would be interested in hearing if corvette has made connections to
crypto oriented sites. If those that run sites with crypto material could
post any connections they have had from corvette, I would appreciate it. 

Michael Graffam (mgraffam@mhv.net)

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------

URLS relating to corvette.bxa.doc.gov turned up by Altavista:

http://chip.mcl.ucsb.edu/lopaka/usage/weeks/hosts/www.mcl.ucsb.edu.13.total-hosts.html
http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/tbsstats/tbstats/N1997-06.TXT
http://nsi.net.kiae.su/w3perl/Pays/US-Government.html
http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/tbsstats/tbstats/N1997-03.TXT
http://genome.cs.unc.edu/wusage/week59.html
http://dapsas.weizmann.ac.il/reports/31Oct1997.hosts.html
http://www.minerals.csiro.au/wusage/new/log.ext/log1997/sites0896.html
http://www.gordon.army.mil/usage/H1997-01.TXT
http://www.amherst.edu/~erreich/visitors.html
http://www.ufl.edu/9607-14.html
http://data.gc.peachnet.edu/APPS/WWW/USAGE/1996/H1996-07.TXT
http://data.gc.peachnet.edu/APPS/WWW/USAGE/1996/H1996-09.TXT
http://www.edu.physics.uch.gr/usage/week89.html
http://www.edu.physics.uch.gr/usage/week56.html
http://www.gordon.army.mil/usage/H1996-09.TXT (2)
http://leviathan.tamu.edu:70/0/gnlog/1996/9612/9612.hosts
http://lfowler.afternet.com/logfiles/sites0298.html
http://www.chelt.ac.uk/usage/ws970622.htm
http://www.splosh.co.uk/usage/weeks/hosts/splosh.9.total-hosts.html
http://www.ufl.edu/9803-08.html
http://www.italcultusa.org/home/_private/mailing.txt
http://lfowler.afternet.com/logfiles/sites0198.html

Michael J. Graffam (mgraffam@mhv.net)
http://www.mhv.net/~mgraffam -- Philosophy, Religion, Computers, Crypto, etc
I think that we should be men first, and subjects afterward. It is not
desirable to cultivate a respect for the law, so much as for the right.
			Henry David Thoreau "Civil Disobedience"

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 18:09:20 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: nsa police & ammunition theft
Message-ID: <199805100109.SAA20181@netcom7.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



------- Forwarded Message

From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: NSA police suspected in agency thefts

Forwarded:
- -----------------

>Source: The Baltimore Sun, May 9, 1998
>http://www.sunspot.net
>
>NSA police suspected in agency thefts
>
>50,000 rounds of ammunition reported stolen; 'An active investigation'; 2
>officers allowed to resign; at least 9 others targeted
>
>By Tom Bowman
>Sun National Staff
>
>WASHINGTON -- Nearly a dozen members of the police force that guards the
>top-secret National Security Agency are suspected of stealing ammunition
>from the Fort Meade-based agency, sources and federal officials said
>yesterday.
>
>The thefts, which included up to 50,000 rounds of ammunition, represent an
>embarrassing incident for the NSA, an intelligence agency that eavesdrops
>on foreign communications and makes and breaks codes. Besides NSA
>officials, agents of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms are
>investigating the thefts.
>
>While no arrests have been made, several police officers have been
>implicated, officials said. But details about the thefts and the progress
>of the investigation remained sketchy yesterday.
>
>Larry Stewart, special agent in charge of the bureau's Baltimore office,
>declined to comment on the amount of ammunition stolen or the number of
>officers from the NSA's Security Protective Officer force who are under
>investigation.
>
>"That I can't share with you," Stewart said. "The only thing I can tell you
>is it's an active investigation, and we can't comment on that."
>
>NSA officials also declined to discuss the investigation. The agency
>released a brief statement yesterday saying it was "nearing completion on
>an investigation involving Security Protective Officers."
>
>Agency sources said two sergeants on the force have been allowed to resign
>as a result of the investigation, including one who oversaw the force's
>ammunition and weapons. At least nine other officers are under
>investigation.
>
>The sergeant who was in charge of ammunition, William R. Fabus, said he had
>resigned voluntarily on May 1 after he was questioned by agents.
>
>"I was not aware that anything was missing," said Fabus, 36, of
>Catonsville, adding that he expects no further inquiries or criminal
>charges. "I was told there was nothing criminal that I did."Fabus, a
>10-year veteran of the force, declined to say why he had abruptly resigned.
>"I don't know where I'm stepping," he said. "If I give out any information
>considered national security stuff, it would be adverse toward me."
>
>Officer named others
>
>Officials would not say when they believe the thefts began or how they were
>detected, though one former agency employee said the thefts had been
>occurring for at least two months. The source said one officer was caught
>and began implicating others.
>
>The thefts have resulted in new security procedures at the agency, sources
>said, and employees have been warned not to talk about the investigation.
>The NSA, which employs about 23,000 people at Fort Meade, is the largest
>employer in Maryland.
>
>As part of the inquiry, investigators found grenades and assault rifles,
>although neither were NSA property, sources said.
>
>"It shocked a lot of people," the former employee, who requested anonymity,
>said of the thefts. "[The officers] are not kids; they've been working
>there a long time."
>
>The uniformed police force includes several hundred officers and provides
>security at NSA's sprawling complex off the Baltimore-Washington Parkway
>and its satellite locations throughout Maryland.
>
>Top-security clearance
>
>The officers, whose average salary is about $30,000, undergo two months of
>training at a facility in Georgia with other federal police officers, and
>carry either 9 mm or 38-caliber handguns, former members of the force said.
>
>They also possess the government's top-security clearance, known as SCI for
>Sensitive Compartmented Information, the eavesdropping product that is
>among the nation's most guarded secrets.
>
>Officials would not say whether they suspect that the officers were using
>the ammunition for their own use or were selling it. FBI spokesmen and
>staffers on the congressional intelligence oversight committees said they
>were unaware of the investigation.
>
>"This is the first I've heard of it," Larry Foust, an FBI spokesman in
>Baltimore, said when called by a reporter. One top FBI official in
>Washington privately expressed surprise that the bureau had not been
>notified, considering the possible extent of the theft.
>
>Morale problems
>
>Besides the thefts, agency officials have pointed to administrative and
>morale troubles among the force. In a recent report, portions of which were
>obtained by The Sun, the agency noted tensions among the uniformed police
>supervisors, many of whom are high school graduates, and a rising number of
>college-educated officers who are being hired.
>
>"The supervisors may feel threatened by subordinates who may be brighter
>and more willing to empower themselves to make independent decisions," the
>report said.
>
>Moreover, the report said, newly hired officers have not been given a
>"realistic job preview."
>
>"It was widely believed that applicants may have been misled to believe
>that the job entailed more sophisticated and responsible police functions
>than actually take place," according to the report. "Boredom and lower
>levels of job satisfaction are believed to be widespread amongst the more
>educated [officers]."
>
>Sun staff writer Larry Carson contributed to this article.
>
>Originally published on May 8 1998


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------- End of Forwarded Message





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: diane@extractorpro.net
Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 12:24:11 -0700 (PDT)
To: friend@bulkmailer
Subject: What Bill Gates doesn't want you to know.
Message-ID: <199805092253.SAA22521@sour.extractorpro.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: your.friend@02433.com
Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 20:40:08 -0700 (PDT)
To: notme@idvu.es
Subject: hello
Message-ID: <99902170875.bee08056@tecrets.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: a.friend@15234.com
Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 22:07:55 -0700 (PDT)
To: hello@idvu.es
Subject: hello
Message-ID: <75322170875.bee08056@allrets.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Hey come look at your new car stereo at Stereo Surplus!
http://www.cvc.net/business/juanm/index.html

HELLO MY NAME IS ARON.  WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEND EMAILS LIKE THIS?
I CHARGED $120.00 TO SEND THIS EMAIL!  YOU COULD MAKE LOTS OF
MONEY EVERY DAY AT THE PUSH OF A BUTTON.  DOES THAT SOUND EASY?
WELL IT IS!  FOR ONLY $180.00 YOU CAN HAVE STEALTH PLUS 40 MILLION
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$400-500.00!  YOU CAN MAKE $400-800.00 A DAY! I ONLY DO THIS FOR ABOUT
2 HOURS AND WAIT FOR THE MONEY TO COME IN. THE BEST PART ITS ALL 
LEGAL!  ARE YOU INTERESTED?
EMAIL ME AT aron28@hotmail.com I WILL REPPLY ASAP!








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 19:04:49 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: corvette.bxa.doc.gov followup
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I talked to Peter Cassidy yesterday.

We talked about corvette. For the record, they don't deny it's theirs, and
that it's part of their ongoing enforcement operations.

Maybe it's time to fire up your spider traps, boys and girls? I do know
that Los Alamos had one up for fun a few years ago. It was discussed on
this list about the time AltaVista got started, maybe 3 years ago...

I bet that corvette doesn't give a squalling fuck about "no-crawling" HTML
requests...

Anyone want to bet on how long it'll be some idiot in DC tries to make
spidertraps illegal?

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga

-----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Spam the President 
Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 17:11:32 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: U.S. Navy caught hacking into British marine charity Web site
Message-ID: <3554E2BF.5C3E2646@whitehouse.gov>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Sat, 9 May 1998, Bill Frantz wrote:

> At 4:48 AM -0800 5/9/98, Spam the President wrote:
> >http://www.infoworld.com/cgi-bin/displayStory.pl?98058.winavy.htm
> >
> >  U.S. Navy caught hacking
> >  into British marine
> >  charity Web site
> >
> >  By Kristi Essick
> >  InfoWorld Electric
> >
> >  Posted at 3:07 PM PT, May 8, 1998
> >  ...
> >
> >  "I think whoever it was within the U.S. Navy
> >  facility would have better things to do rather than
> >  try and hack into our computers," said Chris
> >  Stroud, the organization's director of campaigns,
> >  in a statement. "If they were seeking reports on
> >  the Black Sea, we shall be freely publishing these
> >  in the near future anyway."
>
> Consider the possibility that someone hacked into the Navy's computer and
> then used it as a base to hack the Marine Mammal Charity site.
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Bill Frantz       | If hate must be my prison  | Periwinkle -- Consulting
> (408)356-8506     | lock, then love must be    | 16345 Englewood Ave.
> frantz@netcom.com | the key.     - Phil Ochs   | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA

It wouldn't make any sense. Why would a hacker use a military
site that is actively monitored to hack into a site with less security?

And why the requests to get the document originating from the same
source?

Also, from what I have read, the DoD needs come first in everything,
especially Defence Security related issues. No holds barred when they
want something.

This sounds exactly like the kind of information that they would 
want and consider essential, and could thus justify themselves to
get it by any means available. 

Of course, if this was a hacker playing tricks to the US military,
then I'm sure we can expect the military will publish this serious
a security breach, in order to get more money to protect themselves
against any Internet terrorist attacks in the future.

But I bet there will be no public comments or explanation given.
-----
pentagon-gw-e0.nci.net (198.253.200.2)
donhq-gw.nci.net (198.253.203.11)  
donhqns1.hq.navy.mil (164.224.250.80) 

Trying 164.224.250.80...
Connected to 164.224.250.80.
Escape character is '^]'.
    W A R N I N G     W A R N I N G     W A R N I N G     W A R N I N G

    USE OF THIS OR ANY OTHER DOD INTEREST COMPUTER SYSTEM CONSTITUTES A
                    CONSENT TO MONITORING AT ALL TIMES

This is a Department of Navy (DON) interest computer system.  All DON
interest
computer systems and related equipment are intended for the
communication,
transmission, processing, and storage of official U.S. Government or
other
authorized information only.  All DON interest computer systems are
subject
to  monitoring at all times to ensure proper functioning of equipment
and
systems including security devices and systems, to prevent unauthorized
use
and violations of statutes and security regulations, to deter criminal
activity, and for other similar purposes.  Any user of a DON interest
computer
system should be aware that any information placed in the system is
subject
to monitoring and is not subject to any expectation of privacy.

If monitoring of this or any other DON interest computer system reveals
possible evidence of violation of criminal statutes, this evidence and
any
other related information, including identification information about
the
user, may be provided to law enforcement officials.

If monitoring of this or any other DON interest computer system reveals
violations of security regulations or unauthorized use, employees who
violate
security regulations or make unauthorized use of DON interest computer
systems are subject to appropriate disciplinary action.

    USE OF THIS OR ANY OTHER DOD INTEREST COMPUTER SYSTEM CONSTITUTES A
                    CONSENT TO MONITORING AT ALL TIMES

    W A R N I N G     W A R N I N G     W A R N I N G     W A R N I N G

Username:




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Spam the President 
Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 17:23:13 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: NASA computers to be hacked
Message-ID: <3554E57C.36AA4BFE@whitehouse.gov>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


http://www.msnbc.com/news/164582.asp

              NASA computers to be 'hacked'

              National Security Agency wants to know if space agency's
              computers are secure enough to fend off cyber-intruders
                                                         ASSOCIATED
PRESS

              WASHINGTON, May 9 - Agents from the National Security
              Agency will try to break into NASA's computers to
determine
              whether the space agency can fend off cyber-intruders who
              could threaten launch-control and other critical
operations, the
              trade publication Defense Week reports.


                     THE "PENETRATION STUDY" of the National

                      Aeronautics and Space Administration's
unclassified computer
                      networks is an effort to learn how easily
troublemakers can get
                      to sensitive data and what NASA's doing about it.
                             Teams from the intelligence agency will
soon try to
                      penetrate NASA networks in up to eight states,
said the
                      newsletter in the edition to be published Monday.
                             Last June, NSA "hackers" showed they could
cripple
                      Pacific Command battle-management computers and
U.S.
                      electric power grids.
                             
                      'PENETRATION STUDY'
                             The NASA "penetration study," which will be
run under the
                      auspices of the General Accounting Office, stands
out because
                      it involves a U.S. civilian agency, and such
operations are
                      barred by the 1952 law that created NSA, the
newsletter said. 
                   
     

                             However, the law barring domestic
activities contains an
                      exception if the spy agency is invited to do the
work.
                             Still, the publication said the planned
test raised questions of
                      privacy.
                             John Pike of the Federation of American
Scientists, a
                      veteran observer of both NASA and the intelligence
                      community, told the newsletter that the NASA test
breaks new
                      ground and bears close watching.
                             "This is the next big step in NSA's
expanding role in
                      domestic information security," he said. "It's
certainly the first
                      reported major initiative of this sort with
respect to a
                      non-military agency. While a number of safeguards
are in
                      place, there are concerns about the potential for
abuse of this
                      type of activity."
                             But Charles Redmond, the space agency's
manager of
                      information-technology security, said the test was
"not an
                      invasion of privacy."
                             NASA preferred to have the intelligence
agency do the
                      tests because it wanted to protect security and
proprietary data
                      and to avoid any conflict of interest, Redmond
said.
                             The tests will determine how easy it is to
access sensitive
                      sites and whether they can be accessed through the
Internet.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Spam the President 
Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 17:52:09 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Spy Satellite Launched
Message-ID: <3554EC42.5E33D640@whitehouse.gov>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


http://www.abcnews.com/sections/science/DailyNews/rocket980508.html

                         C A P E   C A N A V E R A L,  Fla.,  May 8 - A
top
                         secret spy satellite blasted off on
                         Friday atop the U.S. military's most
                         powerful rocket booster. 
                              The 20-story U.S. Air Force Titan 4B
                         rocket, carrying the classified National
                         Reconnaissance Office spacecraft, lifted off
its
                         Cape Canaveral launch pad at 9:38 p.m. EST.
                              The rocket's comet-like streak through the
                         moon-lit night sky was visible as far away as
                         Orlando.
                              According to the trade journal Aviation
                         Week and Space Technology, the Titan, built by
                         Lockheed Martin Corp., placed an electronic
                         eavesdropping satellite into orbit.
                              "It will be used to listen in on
                         communications in hostile areas, such as the
                         Middle East and North Korea," said Craig
                         Covault, the magazine's space technology
                         editor.
                              The rocket soared into the sky several
hours
                         late after a problem-plagued countdown. Air
                         Force launch controllers had to deal with
                         technical trouble at a tracking station and
high
                         upper-level winds.
                              The countdown was also disrupted by a
                         container ship and a small sail boat that
strayed
                         into the launch danger area in the Atlantic
                         Ocean, east of Cape Canaveral.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: csvcjld@nomvs.lsumc.edu
Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 05:27:19 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: corvette.bxa.doc.gov followup
Message-ID: <19980510072523421@nomvs.lsumc.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


192.239.70.124 hit my ftp site on 4/13/98, the day after I announced a
program to crack simple substitution ciphers on this list.  When I
announced the program, I accidently gave it an .exe extension (when it
actually had a .zip extension).  192.239.70.124 tried to get the .exe
extension and then gave up.  Is it possible that 192.239.70.124 is
driven by http://infinity.nus.sg/cypherpunks?

I've since purchased a $10 article from the ACM and extended my program
to implement G.W.Hart's algorithm; the result is archived as
ftp://colbleep.ocs.lsumc.edu/pub/crypto/simplsub/win95/gwhart.zip.  C
source code is included; it should compile under Unix as well as Windows
95/NT.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: global202@yahoo.com
Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 03:02:44 -0700 (PDT)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: The Internet Success ToolBox
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Note:We do not wish to send e-mail to anyone that does
not want it so please send an e-mail to:
remove98@yahoo.com
You will be removed promptly.
*****************************************************************

"THE INTERNET SUCCESS TOOLBOX"
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This, easy to use, software is designed for the basic computer 
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6 BONUSES with a total value of $663.90 - absolutely FREE!  They include: 

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is your go ahead and I'll rush it out to you along with your 6 FREE BONUSES.								

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City)__________________State_______Zip_____________


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___Visa  ___MasterCard

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____________________________________
           Signature


To order by check:
***********************************************************

Tape or paste your check here
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You do not need to send a hard copy of your check.
The fax is all we need.

(We are able to perform this service using our
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************************************************************


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  business days.

* Orders MAILED IN or OVERNIGHTED with CASHIER'S CHECK  or MONEY ORDER are
  shipped IMMEDIATELY. Mail to: 
                       SYS
                       11014 19th Ave SE Suite 305 
                       Everett, WA 98208.
    
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 


									





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 83398.advsr@msn.com
Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 15:55:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: The information as requested -40730
Message-ID: <199805102254.PAA21804@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/html



***THIS IS NOT SPAM***
My name is Dan.  I make a habit of deleting mail I have not read, as I'm sure you do.  Please read this one though, you might find this interesting.
     I recently lost my high paying job from a major computer corporation due to their loss of a major contract.  They messed up, but that whole department of 15 people including myself are hung out to dry.  Corporate America at it's finest.  I have not had luck yet finding another job, as my skills were very specific to that company and not really worth anything to another company.
During the time I worked there, I also bought and sold Real Estate like those guys on TV (yes, you can do that and make it work for you).  The key is I made it work.  I was fairly successful until the "nightmare on Pleasant St." as my friends and I call it....
I lost money in one bad deal and I was no longer financially secure and I relied heavily on my income from my FORMER JOB.
As you've already heard, I lost that too and I started to look for other things I could do to make money until I could get back on my feet.  So I started to read all of the JUNK that was mailed to me.  Let me tell you, I can't believe some of the things out there... what a waste of time.
Until I saw this.
Hold on, I know you are (like I was) ready to stop right here.
     I implore you not to.
I, like you am NOT some non-educated fool.
I have made a lot of money for myself in Real Estate, which is not an easy business, and I am a rather competent business man.
At least finish reading this to the end.
      **BETTER STILL; PRINT THIS LETTER AND READ IT IN
         COMFORT, OVER AND OVER
                        Here is what I saw...
                *I only needed $20 dollars to try this
                *This is making money for people who at least tried
                  a little, so why not me too?
In desperation, I sent the four 5 dollar bills and got the reports.
As I always have, I MADE this work for me too.
I took much time and effort to learn about email (which is a great and FREE tool!!) and how to send lots of it. 
Now, 19 days after my first mailing of this, I have received roughly 8,450 responses (trust me, when my wife saw 8,450 5 dollar bills on the kitchen table, she no longer laughed at me for trying this).
I wrote a report of my own showing step by step how to do the same, which I will give you for free as a helping hand so we can all continue this success.  I will show you every step of cutting, pasting, and editing this letter to include your name and address, etc.
Here is my special offer to help you...As long as my address, DDW at the Colorado Springs PO Box is on the list below I will send the step-by-step instructions and 100,000 email addresses to anyone  who orders any report from me.  It took some time and expense to put this list of addresses together so all I ask is that you add another $5 for handling the addresses.  THE INSTRUCTIONS FOR E-MAILING ARE FREE.  They will come to you in a .txt format (which I will teach you how to use in the instructions I've put together) and less than 2% will be duplicates.  You will get the list of addresses with your report.  The first 160 people who order a report from me will receive a different set of addresses.  This is my gift to you to help you get started...
     I promise you, if you follow the directions in this e-mail and be prepared to eventually set aside about an hour each day to follow up (and count your money!), you will make at least as much money as I am.  You don't need to be a whiz at the computer, but you probably already are.  If you can open an envelope, remove the money and send an e-mail message, then you're on your way to the bank.  Take the time to read this so you'll understand how easy it is.  If I can do this, so can you!
     ADD THIS E-MAIL TO YOU 'FAVORITE PLACES' FOLDER
     SO THAT YOU WILL HAVE A COPY OF THIS FOR FUTURE USE.
                     GO FOR IT NOW!!
                     Dan
The following is a copy of the e-mail I read:
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
This is a legal money making PHENOMENON
PRINT this letter, read the directions, THEN READ IT AGAIN!!!
     
     You are about to embark on the most profitable and unique program you may ever see.  Many times over, it has demonstrated and proven its ability to generate large amounts of cash.  This program is showing fantastic appeal with a huge and ever-growing on-line population desirous of additional income.
This is a legitimate, LEGAL, money-making opportunity.  It does not require you to come in contact with people, do any hard work, and best of all, you never have to leave the house, except to go to the bank!
This truly is that lucky break you've been waiting for!  Simply follow the easy instructions in this letter, and your financial dreams will come true!  When followed correctly, this electronic, multi-level marketing program works perfectly...100% EVERY TIME!
THOUSANDS of people have used this program to:
    -Raise capital to start their own business
    -Pay off debts
    -Buy homes, cars, etc.,
    -Even retire!
This is your chance, so don't pass it up!
OVERVIEW OF THIS
EXTRAORDINARY
ELECTRONIC MULTI-LEVEL MARKETING PROGRAM
___________________________________________
_____
Basically, this is what we do:
  We send thousands of people a product for $5.00 that costs next to nothing to produce and e-mail.  As with all multi-level businesses, we build our business by recruiting new partners and selling our products.  Every state in the U.S. allows you to recruit new business online (via your computer). 
The products in this program are a series of four business and financial reports costing $5.00 each.  Each order you receive via "snail mail" will include:
     *$5.00 cash
     *The name and number of the report they are ordering
     *The e-mail address where you will e-mail them the report they ordered.
  To fill each order, you simply e-mail the product to the buyer.  THAT"S IT!  The $5 is yours!  This is the easiest  electronic business anywhere!
FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS TO THE LETTER AND
BE PREPARED TO REAP THE STAGGERING BENEFITS!
******INSTRUCTIONS******
This is what you MUST do:
1. Order all four reports shown on the list below (you can't sell them if you don't order them).
     *For each report, send $5 CASH, the NAME & NUMBER OF THE REPORT YOU ARE ORDERING,
      YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS, and YOUR RETURN POSTAL ADDRESS (in case of a problem) to the
      person whose name appears on the list next to the report.
     *When you place your order, make sure you order each of the four
      reports.  You will need all four reports so that you can save them
      on your computer and resell them.
     *Within a few days you will receive, via e-mail, each of the four reports
      Save them on you computer so they will be accessible for you to send
      reports to the 1,000's of people who will order them from you.
2.  IMPORTANT- DO NOT alter the names of the people who are listed next to each report, or 
     their sequence on the list in any way other than is instructed below in steps "a" through
     "d" or you will lose out on the majority of your profits.  Once you understand the way this
     works, you'll also see how it doesn't work if you change it. Remember, this method has
     been tested, and if you alter it, it WILL NOT work.
     a. Look below for the listing of available reports.
     b.  After you've ordered the four reports, replace the name and address
          under REPORT#1 with your name and address, moving the one that was
          there down to REPORT#2.
      c. Move the name and address that was under REPORT#2 down to REPORT#3.
      d. Move the name and address that was under REPORT#3 down to REPORT#4.
      e. The name and address the was under REPORT#4 is removed from the list
           and has no doubt collected their 50 grand.
Please make sure you copy everyone's name and address ACCURATELY!!!
3.  Take this entire letter, including the modified list of names, and save it to your
     computer.  Make NO changes to the instruction portion of this letter.
4.  Now you're ready to start an advertising campaign on the WORLDWIDE WEB!
     Advertising on the WEB is very, very inexpensive, and there are HUNDREDS of FREE
     places to advertise.  Another avenue which you could use for advertising is e-mail
     lists.  You can buy these lists for under $20/2000 addresses or you can pay
     someone a minimal charge to take care of it for you.  BE SURE TO START YOUR AD
     CAMPAIGN IMMEDIATELY!
5.  For every $5 you receive, all you must do is e-mail them the report they ordered.
     That's it!  ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME DAY SERVICE ON ALL ORDERS!  This guarantees that the 
     e-mail THEY send out, with YOUR name and address on it, will be prompt because they
     can't advertise until they receive the report!
--------------------------------------
AVAILABLE REPORTS
--------------------------------------
***Order each REPORT by NUMBER and NAME***

Notes:
-ALWAYS SEND $5 CASH FOR EACH REPORT
-ALWAYS SEND YOUR ORDER VIA FIRST CLASS MAIL
-Make sure the cash is concealed by wrapping it in at least two sheets of paper
-On one of those sheets of paper, include: (a) the number & name of the report you are
  ordering, (b) your e-mail address, and (c) your postal address.
__________________________________________________________
REPORT #1 "HOW TO REORGANIZE YOUR TIME TO ACCOMIDATE A HOME BASED BUSINESS"
Order REPORT #1 from:
           DDW
           PO Box 76532
           Colorado Springs CO. 80970
(Add an additional $5 to cover handling the 100,000 e-mail addresses I will send you when you order any report from me.  Also note as well that you want the e-mailing instructions (which is free) sent to you.  When you move my address down, move this offer also.  It will help us all).
__________________________________________________________
REPORT #2 "MAJOR CORPORATIONS AND E-MAIL"
 
Order REPORT #2 from:
            Basqiuat
            PO Box 1963
            Evanston, IL 60204
__________________________________________________________
REPORT #3 "SOURCES FOR THE BEST MAILING LISTS"
Order REPORT #3 from:
            A Basket Affair
            4505 Hamptonshire Drive
             Raleigh, NC  27613
__________________________________________________________
REPORT #4 "EVALUATING MULTI-LEVEL SALES PLANS"
Order REPORT #4 from:
            Macbye Enterprises
            835 W. Warner Rd.
            Gilbert, AZ  85233
__________________________________________________________
____________________________________
HERES HOW THIS AMAZING PLAN WILL MAKE YOU $MONEY$
____________________________________

  Let's say you decide to start small just to see how well it works.  Assume your goal is to get 10 people to participate on your first level. (Placing a lot of free ads on the Internet will EASILY get a larger response)  Also assume that everyone else in YOUR ORGANIZATION gets ONLY 10 downline members.  Follow this example to achieve the STAGGERING results below.
1st level-your ten members with $5.................................$50
2nd level-10 members from those 10 ($5 x 100).............$500
3rd level-10 members from those 100($5 x 1,000)..........$5,000
4th level-10 members from those 1,000($5 x 10,000).....$50,000
               Total= $55,550
Remember friends, this assumes that the people who participate only recruit 10 people each.  Think for a moment what would happen if they got 20 people to participate!  Most people get 100's of participants!  THINK ABOUT IT!
Your cost to participate in this is practically nothing (surely you can afford $20).  You obviously already have an Internet connection and e-mail is FREE!!  REPORT #3 shows you the most productive methods for bulk e-mail and purchasing e-mail lists.  Some lists & bulk e-mail vendors even work on trade!
About 50,000 new people get online every month!
*****TIPS FOR SUCCESS*****
*  Treat this as YOUR BUSINESS!  Be prompt, professional and follow the 
    directions accurately.
*  Send for the four reports immediately so you will have them when the
   orders start coming in because:
   When you receive a $5 order, you must send out the requested product/report to comply with the U.S. Postal and Lottery Laws, Title 18, Sections1302 and 1341 or title 18, section 3005 in the U.S. Code, also code of Federal Regs. vol.16, Sections 255 and 436, which state that "a product or service must be exchanged for money received".
*  ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON THE ORDERS YOU RECEIVE.
*  Be patient and persistent with this program.  If you follow the instructions 
   exactly, the results WILL undoubtedly be SUCCESSFUL!
*  ABOVE ALL, HAVE FAITH IN YOURSELF AND KNOW YOU WILL SUCCEED!
*****YOUR SUCCESS GUIDELINE*****
Follow these guidelines to guarantee your success:
  If you don't receive 10 to 20 orders for REPORT #1 within two weeks, continue advertising until you do.  Then, a couple of weeks later you should receive at least 100 orders for REPORT #2.  If you don't, continue advertising until you do.  Once you have received 100 or more orders for REPORT #2, YOU CAN RELAX, because the system is already working for you and the cash will continue to roll in!
THIS IS IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER:
  Every time your name is moved down the list, you are placed in front of a DIFFERENT report.  You can KEEP TRACK of your PROGRESS by watching which report people are ordering from you.  If you want to generate more income, send another batch of e-mails and start the whole process again!  There is no limit to the income you will generate from this business!
Note: If you need help with starting a business, registering a business name, how income tax is handled, etc., contact your local office of the Small Business Administration (a federal agency) for free help and answers to questions.  Also, the Internal Revenue Service offers free help via telephone and free seminars about business taxes.
*******T E S T I M O N I A L S*******

     This program does work, but you must follow it EXACTLY!  Especially the rule of not placing your name in a different position, it won't work and you will lose potential income.  I'm living proof that it works.  It really is a great opportunity to make relatively easy money, with little cost to you.  If you do choose to participate, follow the program exactly and you'll be on your way to financial security.
    Sean McLaughlin,  Jackson, MS
My name is Frank. My wife, Doris and I live in Bel-Air MD.  I am a cost accountant with a major U.S. Corporation and I make pretty good money.  When I received the program I grumbled to Doris about receiving "junk mail".  I made fun of the whole thing, spouting my knowledge of the population and percentages involved.  I "knew" it wouldn't work.  Doris totally ignored my supposed intelligence and jumped in with both feet.  I made merciless fun of her, and was ready to lay the old "I told you so" on her when the thing didn't work... well, the laugh was on me!  Within two weeks she had received over 50 responses.  Within 45 days she had received over $147,200 in $5 bills!  I was shocked!  I was sure that I had it all figured and that it wouldn't work.  I AM a believer now.  I have joined Doris in her "hobby".  I did have seven more years until retirement, but I think of the "rat race" and it's not for me. We owe it all to MLM.
     Frank T., Bel-Air, MD
The main reason for this letter is to convince you that this system is honest, lawful, extremely profitable and is a way to get a large amount of money in a short amount of time.  I was approached several times before I checked this out.  I joined just to see what one could expect in return for the minimal effort and money required.  To my astonishment, I received $36,470.00 in the first 14 weeks, with money still coming in.
     Sincerely yours, Phillip A. Brown,  Esq
     Not being the gambling type, it took me several weeks to make up my mind to participate in this plan.  But conservative that I am, I decided that the initial investment was so little that there was just no way that I wouldn't get enough orders to at least get my money back.  Boy was I surprised when I found my medium sized post office box crammed full of orders!  For a while it got so overloaded that I had to start picking up my mail at the window.  I'll make more money this year than any 10 years of my life before.  The nice thing about this deal is that it doesn't matter where in the U.S. people live.  There simply isn't a better investment with a faster return.
     Mary Rockland, Lansing, MI
     I had received this program before.  I deleted it but later I wondered if I shouldn't have given it a try.  Of course, I had no idea who to contact to get another copy, so I had to wait until I was e-mailed another copy of the program...11 months passed, then it came.  I didn't delete this one!  I made more than $41,000 on the first try!
     D. Wilburn, Muncie, IN
    This is my third time to participate in this plan.  We have quit our jobs and will soon buy a home on the beach and live off the interest on our money.  The only way on earth that this plan will work for you is if you do it.  For your sake, don't pass up this golden opportunity.  Good luck and happy spending!
    Charles Fairchild, Spokane, WA
ORDER YOUR REPORTS TODAY AND GET STARTED
ON THE ROAD TO YOUR FINANCIAL FREEDOM!!!


           
                    





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 15:26:06 -0700 (PDT)
To: kalliste@aci.net>
Subject: What Does Crash Mean? and Motion to Amend Order
Message-ID: <35562898.2B92@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Sunday 5/10/98 3:49 PM

J Orlin Grabbe
John Young

Orlin, u 5/10/98 Albuquerque Journal

  What Does 'Crash' Mean?  Hang Around

  William Pfaff
  Syndicated Columnist

  PARIS -  A friend said to me the other day that the word  "crash"
  no longer is part of the American vocabulary.  We only know stock 
  market "correction," and corrections have just be waited out.
    He explained to me that the stock market only goes up, because 
  immense popular and political interests, as well as corporate
interests
  are today committed to its only going up.  His implied argument was
that the 
  American government has no choice but to make it go up.
    It struck me, as he was peaking, that this might have been what Jay
Gatsby
  was saying to his friends during the luxurious summer of 1929, a few
months
  before Gatsby disappeared off the end of that dock in West Egg, on
Long
  Island Sound, or went back to the Middle West - if it was the Middle
West -
  which, for Gatsby, would have been worse.   But I am a child of the
Depression. ...

Pfaff concludes

    I would stick with an older American assumption, that if something
seems too
  good to be true, it probably is.

Accompanying picture by NANCY OHANIAN/ LOS ANGLES TIMES SYNDICATE
has a bull pictured precariously perched atop a pinnacle ... with rocks
falling around its
feet.

John  I just saw  
  
  Payne-Morales v. NSA: Motion to Amend Order  May 9, 1998

and

  Froomkin on Payne-Morales Motion to Amend Order  May 9, 1998 at

http://www.jya.com/crypto.htm

But I will not read them until Monday.

Let's all hope someone sees the importance of posting the requested
documents on Internet.

Then settling this unfortunate mess.

Later
bill






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: mgraffam@mhv.net
Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 13:57:32 -0700 (PDT)
To: csvcjld@nomvs.lsumc.edu
Subject: Re: corvette.bxa.doc.gov followup
In-Reply-To: <19980510072523421@nomvs.lsumc.edu>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On 10 May 1998 csvcjld@nomvs.lsumc.edu wrote:

> 192.239.70.124 hit my ftp site on 4/13/98, the day after I announced a
> program to crack simple substitution ciphers on this list.  When I
> announced the program, I accidently gave it an .exe extension (when it
> actually had a .zip extension).  192.239.70.124 tried to get the .exe
> extension and then gave up.  Is it possible that 192.239.70.124 is
> driven by http://infinity.nus.sg/cypherpunks?

I would not doubt it. If I were BXA, and I wanted to keep tabs on 
crypto, I'd have an eye on cypherpunks. 

Does anyone know the infinity.nus.sg admins? Any chance of getting a
confirmation that corvette has hit them up?

Michael J. Graffam (mgraffam@mhv.net)
http://www.mhv.net/~mgraffam -- Philosophy, Religion, Computers, Crypto, etc
"Two things fill the mind with ever new and increasing admiration and awe
the more often and steadily we reflect upon them: the starry heavens
above and the moral law within me. I do not seek or conjecture either of
them as if they were veiled obscurities or extravagances beyond the horizon
of my vision; I see them before me and connect them immediately with the
consciousness of my existence." - Immanuel Kant "Critique of 
Practical Reason"

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0i for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv

iQCVAwUBNVYR8wKEiLNUxnAfAQGJuwP+NtOI8O9sd9oivsvnrHTOJNadBVv89fJy
xOlCpFS93ESVjk7EqJwpU25lD5+0tE3f/bgHoHD5Tv52p6kVV9wms/lElnnzOxKU
HfGdw194NQPxvCdIfW11WW46Wl+NiUAgZ5clh6+uI+nC3fAHKxxemwflF/HRCmSb
0egTVVVseN4=
=dXfd
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Sumanth 
Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 05:58:39 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Hi
Message-ID: <3555A5A5.6038AB44@wipinfo.soft.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hi there,
  Is there anyway a mail from mix@anon.lcs.mit.edu can be tracked? If so
how..?

Awaiting a  reply

sumanth





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 16:37:54 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: First meeting of DCS-NY -- The Digital Commerce Society of NewYork
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



--- begin forwarded text


To: dcs-ny-rsvp@piermont.com
Subject: First meeting of DCS-NY -- The Digital Commerce Society of New York
Reply-To: perry@piermont.com
X-Reposting-Policy: redistribute only with permission
Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108)
From: "Perry E. Metzger" 
Date: 10 May 1998 18:30:48 -0400
Lines: 31


[You are getting this either because you are either someone who
 I think would be interested in this announcement, or because you are
 on a mailing list devoted to issues related to electronic commerce. To
 prevent people from accidentally replying to the whole list, I've
 bcc'ed the recipients.

 Please feel free to forward this message to other interested
 individuals.]

As some of you probably know, Robert Hettinga has been running a group
called the Digital Commerce Society of Boston for some time now.  DCSB
meets once a month for lunch at the Harvard Club in Boston to hear a
speaker and discuss the implications of rapidly emerging internet and
cryptographic technologies on finance and commerce -- "Digital
Commerce", in short.

Interest has been expressed in starting a similar organization here in
New York. I'm therefore pleased to announce the initial meeting of the
Digital Commerce Society of New York (DCS-NY). We intend to meet the
second Tuesday of each month for lunch, probably at the Harvard Club
in New York, and conduct meetings much like those of DCSB.

If you are interested in attending our first luncheon meeting, which
will be held on June 9th, or if you wish to be informed of future
meetings by e-mail please send an RSVP to "dcs-ny-rsvp@piermont.com"
We will send out an announcement in about another week informing
people of the final choice of venue and the cost for the lunch.


Perry

--- end forwarded text



-----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Sunder 
Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 18:00:11 -0700 (PDT)
To: Rabid Wombat 
Subject: Re: [Fwd: 3Com switches - undocumented access level.]
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <35564609.D3F85D5A@brainlink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


It is remote access - via telnet!

Rabid Wombat wrote:
> 
> Since you didn't specify the method of access. it is hard to determine if
> this is a large security hole. Most equipment can be rebooted and brought
> up without a password IF you have local access. For example, Cisco routers
> can be brought up without password simply by specifying the starting
> address of the load file, but you have to be at the local console to do
> this.
> 
> UNIX systems can be brought up w/o password in single-user mode, if you
> have local access. Yes, there are firmware passwords to guard against
> this on many systems, but one can always swap up the eeprom, etc.
> 
> I'd only be worried about the 3Com backdoor if it can be used remotely.
> Got any details?
> 
> -r.w.

-- 

=====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos==============
.+.^.+.|  Ray Arachelian    |Prying open my 3rd eye.  So good to see |./|\.
..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were      |/\|/\
<--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run  |\/|\/
../|\..| "A toast to Odin,  |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/.
.+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were....            |.....
======================= http://www.sundernet.com ==========================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Frantz 
Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 20:59:51 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: U.S. Navy caught hacking into British marine charity Web site
In-Reply-To: <3554E2BF.5C3E2646@whitehouse.gov>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 3:11 PM -0800 5/9/98, Spam the President wrote:
>It wouldn't make any sense. Why would a hacker use a military
>site that is actively monitored to hack into a site with less security?

Consider the wonderful irony of hacking into some site and having the blame
go somewhere else.

Consider a somewhat different circumstance.  I was recently in Organ Pipe
Cactus National Monument.  The southern border of the monument runs across
the US/Mexico border.  One of the stops on the tourist drive around the
monument is a parking lot 40 feet from a broken gate in the fence that
marks the border.  There is a large sign there suggesting that people not
leave their cars because of recent breakins.  There was also broken auto
glass on the ground.

Now, if I were breaking into cars, I would pick that parking lot, rather
than others further north, in hopes that everyone would blame the Mexicans.
Don't think I am sure that the Mexicans are not responsible, just that I
see a chance for some US lowlifes to deflect the blame.

I see the same opportunity in using a hacked Navy computer to hack a marine
mammal site.  It may be the Navy, or it may be a hacker with a polished
sense of irony.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz       | If hate must be my prison  | Periwinkle -- Consulting
(408)356-8506     | lock, then love must be    | 16345 Englewood Ave.
frantz@netcom.com | the key.     - Phil Ochs   | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Dave Emery 
Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 19:39:38 -0700 (PDT)
To: Sunder 
Subject: Re: [Fwd: 3Com switches - undocumented access level.]
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <19980510223401.C22003@die.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Sun, May 10, 1998 at 08:27:53PM -0400, Sunder wrote:
> It is remote access - via telnet!
> 
	This is not that uncommon.   We implemented such a backdoor in a
router I worked on the design of some years ago.   The magic password
was a function of the model and serial number of the machine (not as I
remember a very strong hash either), and different for all boxes.  We
(or rather the marketing and support people) felt that leaving a
customer who forgot his password with no option but reset the router to
its factory defaults was more undesirable than providing a potential
attack point for  sophisticated hackers and spooks - the problem being
that there was  often days of work in setting up the configuration and
getting it right, and if the customer did not have a good backup forcing
him to destroy all of his hard won setup just because he couldn't
remember which wife's name he used as the password wasn't a good deal. 
And from a support point of view, helping the turkey to get everything
right again was very expensive and painful, whereas leaving a hole for 
a possible sophisticated attacker was not something that cost support
very much even if some bad guy used it to do real damage.

	I think most if not all uses of our backdoor were handled by
having someone in our customer support login to the machine and
restablish a password or give the customer the specific master password
for his box - I don't think we ever gave anyone the hash.

	I suspect that a large fraction of alarms, security systems,
pbxs and the like incorperate such backdoors for precisely the same 
kinds of reasons - it is simply too catastrophic to reset everything
if someone forgets the password.   I know several commercial Unixes
had such backdoors in them for emergency access years ago, and wouldn't
be overwhelmingly surprised if some current OS's still have magic backdoors.

	Of course these holes are dangerous, as it is not beyond possible
for someone with serious criminal intentions to obtain a copy of your product
and slog through the EPROMS/flash memory with a disassembler and determine
the magic algorithm which may give him access to all other machines running
the same basic code, especially if he has some method of poking around
in memory of his target machine or predicting such things as its secret
serial numbers. 

-- 
	Dave Emery N1PRE,  die@die.com  DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass. 
PGP fingerprint = 2047/4D7B08D1 DE 6E E1 CC 1F 1D 96 E2  5D 27 BD B0 24 88 C3 18





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 79126992@00195.com
Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 22:31:02 -0700 (PDT)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: Mail Your Message to Millions
Message-ID: <19970350058.CAA990557@90009COMLINKNET.COM>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


received: from invooc.com ([207.28.502.416]) by nnbfgwzz345.comlinkcom.net
(Intermail v3.1 177 234) with SMTPid <199803230830.aqwwe122@bell.net> 
for ; Fri, 6 Feb 1998 05:08:30 +0000
Received: (qmail 9695 invoked by ter 0); 3 Apr1998 05:08:29 -0000
Message-ID: <19980323829.9694.qmail@tonight.com>
 Received: from 149.107.252.10 by www.msn.com with HTTP;
Thu, 05 Feb 1998 21:08:29 PSTX-Originating-IP: [153.145.252.17]
From: "Damion Potter"  
To: prede568qukdd8@bellsouth.net 
Cc: flexal5yyt7876l@prodigy.net
Subject: Fw: please 
Content-Type: text/plain
Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 21:08:29 PST


Tired of NOT making money on the internet?

Did you REALLY believe that ALL you had to do was:

Put up a web page somewhere in Cyberspace with beautiful graphics,
the latest Java and some frames;

Advertise in a few free classifieds;

Act like an expert in newsgroups; since you're not 
supposed to advertise in them;

And, customers were going to beat a path to your door.

If you believed that-
BOY, have I got some swampland in Florida for you!

If you want to make money on the internet,
YOU'D better be PROACTIVE!

YOU'D better go after business like you MEAN IT!

YOU'D better send some E-MAIL - Lots of it!

And YOU'D better tell your story as much as you can,
as often as you can,
to whomever you can!

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Bulk e-mail works!

If you know how to write an ad,
identify a need, and fullfill it with your product,
you can make money on the Internet
EVEN on a very limited budget.

This form of advertising has been proven MUCH MORE EFFECTIVE
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Your business deserves a piece of the fastest growing industry in the
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A Web site alone, posting through newsgroups and registering with a 
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On average, a solo direct (snail) mail promotion would cost around
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Put your sales message in front of responsive buyers. Our lists are
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THESE ARE SERIOUS CUSTOMERS LOOKING FOR SERIOUS OFFERS!
These BUYERS want to read and hear more about your products/services.
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Even if you receive 1/10 of 1% response for mailing 1,000,000 email
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Or mail check or money order to: 

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ORDER FORM
========================================================
Name___________________________________________
Address__________________________________________
City______________________State_________Zip_______
E-Mail Address____________________________________
Phone___________________________________________
Business phone____________________________________

Check Ordering info:
Name( exactly as it appears on check)
______________________________________________________
Check number_______________Dollar Amount_________________
**Fraction Code(numbers that appear below check number on top right)
(do not leave blank-ex:123-45/6789)__________________________
Numbers at Bottom of check(read left to right please indicate blank spaces
with a space)____________________________________________
Bank Name_____________________________________________
Bank Address____________________________________________
Bank City/Bank Zip Code___________________________________
Bank phone # (if applicable)_________________________________
 

____________________________________________________





                             == TAPE CHECK HERE ==



____________________________________________________




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 05:29:14 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: DCSB: Michael Baum; PKI and the Commercial CA
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



--- begin forwarded text


X-Sender: rah@pop.sneaker.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 07:23:28 -0400
To: dcsb@ai.mit.edu, dcsb-announce@ai.mit.edu
From: Robert Hettinga 
Subject: DCSB: Michael Baum; PKI and the Commercial CA
Sender: bounce-dcsb@ai.mit.edu
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: Robert Hettinga 

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

[Because Mr. Baum became ill at the last minute this February, we have
rescheduled him for the upcoming DCSB meeting... --RAH]


              The Digital Commerce Society of Boston

                            Presents

                        Michael S. Baum
                         VeriSign, Inc.

                        PKI Requirements
                             from a
                   Commercial CA's Perspective

                    Tuesday, June 2, 1998
                           12 - 2 PM
               The Downtown Harvard Club of Boston
                  One Federal Street, Boston, MA


Requirements for the provision of commercial certification products and
services are under consideration by many companies. Similarly, efforts to
regulate certification authorities (CAs) and public key infrastructure (PKI)
are proliferating by many domestic and foreign governments. Underlying many
of these efforts is the intention to assess and assure quality and
trustworthiness, and yet the nature, scope and regime to accomplish these
goals remain elusive or at least have been balkanized.

This presentation will consider CA and PKI requirements from the experiences
and perspective of a commercial CA. It will survey current approaches to
ascertaining quality and performance as well as their limitations. It will
then propose a path forward. Many of these issues are present real
challenges to both the CAs and the user community. A lively dialog is
welcomed.


Michael S. Baum is Vice President of Practices and External Affairs,
VeriSign, Inc.  His responsibilities include developing practices and
controls under which VeriSign conducts its public Digital ID and private
label certificate operations.

Mr. Baum is the Chair of the Information Security Committee, and Council
Member of the Section of Science and Technology, of the American Bar
Association. He is Chairman of the International Chamber of Commerce (ICC)
ETERMS Working Party and a Vice Chairman of the ICC's Electronic Commerce
Project, a delegate to the United Nations Commission on International Trade
Law on behalf of the ICC. He is a member of various digital signature
legislative advisory committees.

Mr. Baum is co-author (with Warwick Ford) of Secure Electronic Commerce
(Prentice Hall, 1997), author of Federal Certification Authority Liability
and Policy - Law and Policy of Certificate-Based Public Key and Digital
Signatures (NIST, 1994), co-author of Electronic Contracting, Publishing and
EDI Law (Wiley Law Publications, 1991), and contributing author to EDI and
the Law (Blenheim Online, 1989), and the author of diverse information
security publications including the first American articles on EDI law. He
was honored as an EDI Pioneer in 1993 (EDI Forum) and was the Recipient of
the National Notary Association's 1995 Achievement Award. He is a member of
the Massachusetts Bar.


This meeting of the Digital Commerce Society of Boston will be held on
Tuesday, June 2, 1998, from 12pm - 2pm at the Downtown Branch of the
Harvard Club of Boston, on One Federal Street. The price for lunch is
$32.50. This price includes lunch, room rental, various A/V hardware, and
the speaker's lunch. ;-).  The Harvard Club *does* have dress code: jackets
and ties for men (and no sneakers or jeans), and "appropriate business
attire" (whatever that means), for women.  Fair warning: since we purchase
these luncheons in advance, we will be unable to refund the price of your
lunch if the Club finds you in violation of the dress code.

We will attempt to record this meeting for sale on CD/R, and to put it on
the web in RealAudio format, at some future date.


We need to receive a company check, or money order, (or, if we *really* know
you, a personal check) payable to "The Harvard Club of Boston", by Saturday,
May 30th, or you won't be on the list for lunch.  Checks payable to
anyone else but The Harvard Club of Boston will have to be sent back.

Checks should be sent to Robert Hettinga, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston,
Massachusetts, 02131. Again, they *must* be made payable to "The Harvard
Club of Boston", in the amount of $32.50. Please include your e-mail
address, so that we can send you a confirmation

If anyone has questions, or has a problem with these arrangements (We've had
to work with glacial A/P departments more than once, for instance), please
let us know via e-mail, and we'll see if we can work something out.


Upcoming speakers for DCSB are:

July      Rodney Thayer       IPSEC and Digital Commerce
August    TBA
September TBA
October   Peter Cassidy       Intellectual Property Rights Management

TBA       Jeremey Barrett     Digital Bearer Settlement

We are actively searching for future speakers.  If you are in Boston on the
first Tuesday of the month, and you would like to make a presentation to the
Society, please send e-mail to the DCSB Program Commmittee, care of Robert
Hettinga, .


For more information about the Digital Commerce Society of Boston, send
"info dcsb" in the body of a message to  . If
you want to subscribe to the DCSB e-mail list, send "subscribe dcsb" in the
body of a message to  .

We look forward to seeing you there!

Cheers,
Robert Hettinga
Moderator,
The Digital Commerce Society of Boston



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-----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/



For help on using this list (especially unsubscribing), send a message to
"dcsb-request@ai.mit.edu" with one line of text: "help".

--- end forwarded text



-----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Sunder 
Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 07:55:43 -0700 (PDT)
To: die@die.com
Subject: Re: [Fwd: 3Com switches - undocumented access level.]
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <35571029.EBEB4953@brainlink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Dave Emery wrote:

>         This is not that uncommon.   We implemented such a backdoor in a
> router I worked on the design of some years ago.   The magic password
> was a function of the model and serial number of the machine (not as I
> remember a very strong hash either), and different for all boxes.  We
> (or rather the marketing and support people) felt that leaving a
> customer who forgot his password with no option but reset the router to
> its factory defaults was more undesirable than providing a potential
> attack point for  sophisticated hackers and spooks 

This is still unexcusable.  It would have been just as simple to include a
hidden reset switch in a pannel somewhere that would zap all the passwords
on the router without zapping the config, and maybe send some alarms out
via SNMP incase it wasn't something that was wanted.

That would be something the client could do themselves without opening
security holes.


>         I suspect that a large fraction of alarms, security systems,
> pbxs and the like incorperate such backdoors for precisely the same
> kinds of reasons - it is simply too catastrophic to reset everything
> if someone forgets the password.   I know several commercial Unixes
> had such backdoors in them for emergency access years ago, and wouldn't
> be overwhelmingly surprised if some current OS's still have magic backdoors.

That doesn't mean that the ankle biters won't find them.  For example, I could
put a sniffer on the network coming into the router and call up tech support
and say "Hi" I lost my password, here's my IP address, help, help.

I can then do the same thing a week later with the same router incase the
hash is time dependant, and then later with another router with a different
serial number, and I'll have much info to get started on how your hash works.

Piece of cake.
 
>         Of course these holes are dangerous, as it is not beyond possible
> for someone with serious criminal intentions to obtain a copy of your product
> and slog through the EPROMS/flash memory with a disassembler and determine
> the magic algorithm which may give him access to all other machines running
> the same basic code, especially if he has some method of poking around
> in memory of his target machine or predicting such things as its secret
> serial numbers.

Yep.
 

-- 

=====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos==============
.+.^.+.|  Ray Arachelian    |Prying open my 3rd eye.  So good to see |./|\.
..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were      |/\|/\
<--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run  |\/|\/
../|\..| "A toast to Odin,  |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/.
.+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were....            |.....
======================= http://www.sundernet.com ==========================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Sable1949 
Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 09:25:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Last Chance
Message-ID: <7c5a0890.35571269@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


If you wish to be removed, Reply with "REMOVE" as the subject.

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(Feel free to write out the order form by hand)

                        
 Send payment to:             Bruce Nichols
                                     2155 Verdugo Blvd.
                                           #522
                                    Montrose, Ca 91020
                        
Your Name ___________________________________________ Date ____________

Address ______________________________________________________________

City ____________________________ State __________ Zip Code ______________

Phone#  _____________________ E-mail Address ___________________________

Do you have an IBM (   ) or MAC (   )?  CD rom (   ) or Disks (   )?

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      Virtual Girlfriend and Virtual Boyfriend.  
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: christine_leeds@yahoo.com
Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 09:28:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Surprise
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 11:55:48 -0700 (PDT)
To: "Mordechai Ovits" 
Subject: Re: Chaffing & winnowing without overhead
In-Reply-To: <35571323.D109A0D2@argo.es>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980511115153.00941970@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


>Jesús Cea Avión wrote:
>> You can have chaffing & winnowing without bandwidth overhead, but the
>> resulting scheme hasn't the original "elegance" anymore. In particular,
>> you don't send the plaintext on the clear.
...
>> b) Calculate the signature for:
>>    [sequence]0  ->  MAC0
>>    [sequence]1  ->  MAC1
>> c) Compare both MACs and locate the first "different" bit,
>>    from high to low bit or viceversa.
>> d) Send that bit from MAC0 if you want to send a "0" or from
>>    MAC1 if you want to send a "1".

So why not _send_ the plaintext in the clear?
Send the 0 bit, and the bit from the MAC0, and the 1 and the MAC1 bit
	0 0, 1 1, 0 1, 1 0, 
Yes, it's expanding the data 4:1, but that's much better than before.

At 12:04 PM 5/11/98 -0400, Mordechai Ovits wrote:
>On the contrary, it has an elegance all it's own :-).

I strongly agree.  I had proposed using a short checksum,
e.g. 8 bits of the MAC, which does leave collisions every ~256 sets,
but this is almost as short a checksum as you can get,
and eliminates the collision except every ~2**64 pairs.

>However clever this technique is (and it *is* clever), 
>it defeats the original purpose of Ron's idea.  

If you do include the data bits, you maintain (very marginally)
the letter of the requirement here.  What you do lose
with this method is the ability to mix traffic from different people;
1 bit of MAC just isn't enough to pick out your own bits.
Any short MAC limits the amount of mixing you can do;
an 8-bit MAC lets you mix a bit without too many collisions,
and a 64-bit MAC should be enough for any mixture you'd
ever bother with (probably 16 or 32 would as well,
though especially for 16 you'd still need a longitudinal
checksum or some method of handling rare collisions.)

Is it close enough for government work?  Probably.
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Mordechai Ovits" 
Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 09:08:09 -0700 (PDT)
To: "Jesús Cea Avión" 
Subject: Re: Chaffing & winnowing without overhead
In-Reply-To: <35571323.D109A0D2@argo.es>
Message-ID: <35572194.51CDC872@syndata.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Jesús Cea Avión wrote:
> 
> You can have chaffing & winnowing without bandwidth overhead, but the
> resulting scheme hasn't the original "elegance" anymore. In particular,
> you don't send the plaintext on the clear.
> 
> The new schema is useful to cypher a document using any standard
> signature library, exportable by definition. Very nice :), since you can
> use, at last, strong crypto :).
> 
> a) When the connection starts, negociate an initial sequence number.
>    The sequence number mustn't be reused. We assume a ordered delivery,
>    like TCP.
> 
> b) Calculate the signature for:
> 
>    [sequence]0  ->  MAC0
> 
>    and
> 
>    [sequence]1  ->  MAC1
> 
> c) Compare both MACs and locate the first "different" bit,
>    from high to low bit or viceversa.
> 
> d) Send that bit from MAC0 if you want to send a "0" or from
>    MAC1 if you want to send a "1".

On the contrary, it has an elegance all it's own :-).
Since this idea has gone through several iterations, starting from Ron's original paper, I wanted to
summarize in one place Jesus Cea Avion's idea.  All credit for the following technique goes to him.

Alice does this:
Mreal = MAC(serial number, message bit, key)
Mfake = MAC(serial number, complement of message bit, key)
In english:  She MACs both the bit she means, and then MACs the bit she does NOT mean.  She then compares
the two MACs to find the first different bit.  Then she sends to Bob the bit from Mreal in the position of
difference.

When Bob gets the bit, he does this:
Ma = MAC(serial number, 0, key)
Mb = MAC(serial number, 1, key)
He then compares Ma to Mb and finds the first difference.  The bit in the position of difference is the one
that was sent to him by Alice.  He then knows whether Ma or Mb is correct.  If Ma is the correct one then
the plaintext bit is 0, if Mb is the correct one then the plaintext bit is 1.
Remember that there is no need to send the serial number, but you MUST use it in the MAC.  If you are using
a reliable protocol like TCP, or storing it in a file, the serial number is implied by the order it was
received/stored.

However clever this technique is (and it *is* clever), it defeats the original purpose of Ron's idea.  The
original reason Ron created chaffing and winnowing was to show that encryption laws are useless.  He
demonstrated that you can use authentication technologies to create privacy.  Even more, even if the
government demands that the plaintext be in the open, his original paper was set up to pass even that
egregious requirement.  Think of what the govenrnment would see with this latest chaffing and winnowing. 
Two people are send a bitstream that is unreadable without a secret key.  No plaintext is visible.  In
fact, it bears very little resemblance to the name "chaffing and winnowing."  It would not matter to them
wether you were using DES, IDEA, or C&W.  If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a
duck...
Another point of Ron's paper was that any technique the government tried to impose on C&W would create
unacceptable problems.  I dont think these problems would exist in this version of C&W.  Anyone know
better?

-- 
o Mordy Ovits
o Programmer / Cryptographer
o SynData Technologies Inc.
o Download A Free Copy Of Our Software At:
o http://www.syncrypt.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 14:21:34 -0700 (PDT)
To: jim.moran@mail.house.gov
Subject: David Felton
Message-ID: <355760D6.1E52@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Monday 5/11/98 1:37 PM

John Young
J Orlin Grabbe

Judge Leroy Hansen has ordered Morales to court [with court reporter] to
answer and probably be sanctioned for taking the 5th on his deposition.

Morales outlined what he planned to do at lunch.

Today I got a CONFIDENTIAL envelope from EEOC Inspector General's
office in Washington.  No doubt a response to my Privacy Act violation
complaint.

Several years ago a Department of Interior whistleblower gave me number
of
book references.  One was a book written by Felton during the Vietnam
era.

Felton's book is only available from the University of New Mexico main
Zimmerman library.

The book was usually checked out when I phoned to ask if it was
available.

The 'black hole' of government we are encountering in the Court system
and
through administrative appeals prompted me to look up a word.

Here is a dictionary definition.

  a political and economic movement, strongly nationalistic, magnifying
the rights
  of the state as opposed to those of the individual, in which industry,
though
  remaining largely under private ownership, and all administrative
political units, 
  are controlled by a strong central government.

When I asked the librarian about Felton's book, the response was usually

	You mean, The Rise of Acid Fascism in America.

I responded, yes.

Full title of Felton's book is seen at 

 
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/quicksearch-query/002-2147604-1106833

I guess what we are seeing with the 'black hole' of the court system and
federal government 
with respect to my Privacy Act violation complaint, the WRITTEN felony
perjury complaint on Sandia lawyer Gregory Cone, the dockets we COULD
not get BEFORE

  http://www.jya.com/whp-10usca.htm 

is that while United States of America is only a democracy in name, 

The US is, in fact, operated as a fascist state by bureaucrats.  

Who go totally insane about the subject of cryptography.
  
Citizens should do something about this.  

Some are. http://www.aci.net/kalliste/ 
          http://www.jya.com/crypto.htm
          http://www.us.net/softwar/
          http://www.antionline.com/
          http://jya.com/whpfiles.htm

Later
bill






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jes=FAs?= Cea =?iso-8859-1?Q?Avi=F3n?=" 
Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 06:04:34 -0700 (PDT)
To: cert-es@listserv.rediris.es
Subject: Chaffing & winnowing without overhead
Message-ID: <35571323.D109A0D2@argo.es>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


You can have chaffing & winnowing without bandwidth overhead, but the
resulting scheme hasn't the original "elegance" anymore. In particular,
you don't send the plaintext on the clear.

The new schema is useful to cypher a document using any standard
signature library, exportable by definition. Very nice :), since you can
use, at last, strong crypto :).

a) When the connection starts, negociate an initial sequence number.
   The sequence number mustn't be reused. We assume a ordered delivery,
   like TCP.

b) Calculate the signature for:

   [sequence]0  ->  MAC0
   
   and

   [sequence]1  ->  MAC1

c) Compare both MACs and locate the first "different" bit,
   from high to low bit or viceversa.

d) Send that bit from MAC0 if you want to send a "0" or from
   MAC1 if you want to send a "1".

-- 
Jesus Cea Avion                         _/_/      _/_/_/        _/_/_/
jcea@argo.es http://www.argo.es/~jcea/ _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
                                      _/_/    _/_/          _/_/_/_/_/
PGP Key Available at KeyServ   _/_/  _/_/    _/_/          _/_/  _/_/
"Things are not so easy"      _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
"My name is Dump, Core Dump"   _/_/_/        _/_/_/      _/_/  _/_/
"El amor es poner tu felicidad en la felicidad de otro" - Leibnitz




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Mordechai Ovits" 
Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 12:10:06 -0700 (PDT)
To: "Jesús Cea Avión" 
Subject: Re: Chaffing & winnowing without overhead
In-Reply-To: <35571323.D109A0D2@argo.es>
Message-ID: <35574C41.816CA545@syndata.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Jesús Cea Avión wrote:

> In the Rivest's paper you transmit, indeed, all the 2^n plaintexts for a
> n bit length };-).

Not so. In his paper (before the package tranform stuff), he had the following expansion.
Assuming a 32 bit serial number and a 160 bit MAC, n bits would expand to 388n.
This is because Ron is sending it out like this:
quote from http://theory.lcs.mit.edu/~rivest/chaffing.txt
>To make this clearer with an example, note that the adversary 
>will see triples of the form:
>        (1,0,351216)
>        (1,1,895634)
>        (2,0,452412)
>        (2,1,534981)
>        (3,0,639723)
>        (3,1,905344)
>        (4,0,321329)
>        (4,1,978823)
>        ...
>and so on.

Every bit is getting 2 32-bit serial numbers, its own complement, and 2 160-bit MACs.
a 10KB file would explode into a 3.789MB file.
Not too practical, eh? :-)
-- 
o Mordy Ovits
o Programmer / Cryptographer
o SynData Technologies Inc.
o Download A Free Copy Of Our Software At:
o http://www.syncrypt.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ryan Anderson 
Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 13:41:30 -0700 (PDT)
To: Mordechai Ovits 
Subject: Re: Chaffing & winnowing without overhead
In-Reply-To: <35574C41.816CA545@syndata.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Mon, 11 May 1998, Mordechai Ovits wrote:

> > In the Rivest's paper you transmit, indeed, all the 2^n plaintexts for a
> > n bit length };-).
> 
> Not so. In his paper (before the package tranform stuff), he had the following expansion.

Note that any of the 2^n plaintexts cna be reconstructed from the
following sequence of triples.  (Assuming no knowledge of the MAC.  The
attacker has no idea which of each pair of triples related to each
sequence is correct, so he must search every possibility, which turns  out
to be each of the 2^n plaintexts.)

> Assuming a 32 bit serial number and a 160 bit MAC, n bits would expand to 388n.
> This is because Ron is sending it out like this:
> quote from http://theory.lcs.mit.edu/~rivest/chaffing.txt
> >To make this clearer with an example, note that the adversary 
> >will see triples of the form:
> >        (1,0,351216)
> >        (1,1,895634)
> >        (2,0,452412)
> >        (2,1,534981)
> >        (3,0,639723)
> >        (3,1,905344)
> >        (4,0,321329)
> >        (4,1,978823)



Ryan Anderson 
PGP fp: 7E 8E C6 54 96 AC D9 57  E4 F8 AE 9C 10 7E 78 C9





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: die@die.com
Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 13:55:42 -0700 (PDT)
To: Sunder 
Subject: Re: [Fwd: 3Com switches - undocumented access level.]
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <19980511165629.B17830@die.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Mon, May 11, 1998 at 10:50:17AM -0400, Sunder wrote:
> Dave Emery wrote:
> 
> >         This is not that uncommon.   We implemented such a backdoor in a
> > router I worked on the design of some years ago.   The magic password
> > was a function of the model and serial number of the machine (not as I
> > remember a very strong hash either), and different for all boxes.  We
> > (or rather the marketing and support people) felt that leaving a
> > customer who forgot his password with no option but reset the router to
> > its factory defaults was more undesirable than providing a potential
> > attack point for  sophisticated hackers and spooks 
> 
> This is still unexcusable.  It would have been just as simple to include a
> hidden reset switch in a pannel somewhere that would zap all the passwords
> on the router without zapping the config, and maybe send some alarms out
> via SNMP incase it wasn't something that was wanted.

	It took a great deal of earnest debate to get any kind of reset
switch implemented at all - they cost some amount of money and room in
the box, and there were those who held that having a switch there could
invite nervous diddlers to reset the machine causing a crash.   So having
several was harder to sell.  We eventually settled on two, one which would
reset to defaults when pressed at the same time as the other which simply
rebooted.   The need to reset a box whose configuration was terminally 
screwed up to factory defaults was acutely felt by the support people, 
who had to pay a lot to swap out or service onsite a box that someone had
misconfigured so it wouldn't talk to its serial ports (which was
unfortunately possible).

	I don't think those of us who were not happy with the backdoor
would have been much happier with a switch that just magicly reset
passwords, since that would have allowed someone with a moments
unguarded physical access to the box in a wiring closet somewhere to get
in (perhaps hours later from a safe haven via the network) without
necessarily causing a  disruption that might be noticed and investigated
(and not everyone back then had reliable SNMP management and alarms
running).  The solution we chose forced someone with that kind of
transient physical accesss to completely take the machine off line for
minutes or hours while restoring the configuration which was much
likelier to be observed (and required the intruder know the old
configuration in the first place).  We felt this made our reset switches
less of a hazard from 30 second quicky attacks - attacks much easier
to pull off than having enough time connected to the box on a terminal
or laptop to restore the old configuration. 

> 
> 
> >         I suspect that a large fraction of alarms, security systems,
> > pbxs and the like incorperate such backdoors for precisely the same
> > kinds of reasons - it is simply too catastrophic to reset everything
> > if someone forgets the password.   I know several commercial Unixes
> > had such backdoors in them for emergency access years ago, and wouldn't
> > be overwhelmingly surprised if some current OS's still have magic backdoors.
> 
> That doesn't mean that the ankle biters won't find them.  For example, I could
> put a sniffer on the network coming into the router and call up tech support
> and say "Hi" I lost my password, here's my IP address, help, help.
> 
	No doubt.   Generally there was some minimal effort to ensure
that the person calling tech support was legit (callbacks, lists of
contact names and so forth) but there is probably little doubt that a
clever social engineer could perhaps have gotten a box password that
way - although there would certainly have been a trail left that could
have been followed.   For the paraniod we encouraged use of dial up
modems on the console port rather than network access.


> I can then do the same thing a week later with the same router incase the
> hash is time dependant, and then later with another router with a different
> serial number, and I'll have much info to get started on how your hash works.
> 
> Piece of cake.
> 
	Calling up for emergency help with lost passwords was
fortunately not a very common occurance, and generally was noted and
investigated. While our hash wasn't wonderful, I don't think it would
have been easy to obtain enough password/router pairs by calling tech
support to break it that way.  Would have been much easier to obtain a box
and disassemble the code.   And that would have left no trail.


-- 
	Dave Emery N1PRE,  die@die.com  DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass. 
PGP fingerprint = 2047/4D7B08D1 DE 6E E1 CC 1F 1D 96 E2  5D 27 BD B0 24 88 C3 18





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jes=FAs?= Cea =?iso-8859-1?Q?Avi=F3n?=" 
Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 10:57:18 -0700 (PDT)
To: Mordechai Ovits 
Subject: Re: Chaffing & winnowing without overhead
In-Reply-To: <35571323.D109A0D2@argo.es>
Message-ID: <3557576A.C5EF9791@argo.es>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


> However clever this technique is (and it *is* clever), it defeats the
> original purpose of Ron's idea.

Yes, you are right, Mordechai. My point was:

a) Prove that you can implement chaffing & winnowing without
   bandwidth overhead. I agree that the final schema doesn't
   resemble C&W anymore :).

b) Prove that you can use signature schemes, strong and exportable,
   to achieve confidentiality. In that way, my objetive is the same
   that Rivest had.

I'm happy knowing I can use full strengh signatures to keep my secrets,
secret :)

>  No plaintext is visible.

In the Rivest's paper you transmit, indeed, all the 2^n plaintexts for a
n bit length };-).

-- 
Jesus Cea Avion                         _/_/      _/_/_/        _/_/_/
jcea@argo.es http://www.argo.es/~jcea/ _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
                                      _/_/    _/_/          _/_/_/_/_/
PGP Key Available at KeyServ   _/_/  _/_/    _/_/          _/_/  _/_/
"Things are not so easy"      _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/    _/_/  _/_/
"My name is Dump, Core Dump"   _/_/_/        _/_/_/      _/_/  _/_/
"El amor es poner tu felicidad en la felicidad de otro" - Leibnitz




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: announce@zdnetmail.com
Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 12:31:26 -0700 (PDT)
To: Squeamish Ossifrage 
Subject: Announcing  ZDNet Mail !!
Message-ID: <199805121931.MAA11036@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Toto 
Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 11:54:30 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Clinton's NWO
Message-ID: <355897EF.CB6@sk.sympatico.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Clinton just had to announce Global Law while I was reading:
http://www.nebonet.com/headhome/dadmisc/trojan.htm

I suspect Clinton's speech in regard to nations co-operating in 
making their citizens subject to deportation to face charges in
foreign countries was designed to keep me from fleeing my 
'Dog At Large' charges in Bienfait.
Seiing as how the Queen's Gestapo was wearing Keblar when they
upped the ante for charge to four years in prison, I guess I must
be a desperate ASCII character.

Toto





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 06:08:02 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Gary Lee Burnore is a Convicted Sex Offender in Raleigh, NC
In-Reply-To: <199805101850.LAA00114@sirius.infonex.com>
Message-ID: <199805121307.PAA21528@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Steve Crisp  wrote:

> Hate to tell you this, bucko, but he in no longer listed in the registry
> since Gary is not a convicted sex offender and therefore not subject to
> NC registration.

Now explain how whining to have Gary Lee Burnore's entry removed from the
NC registered sex offenders website makes the underlying offense go away?
I'm sure the victim feels better, right?  And Gary's neighbors can now rest
easier knowing that the sex offender in their neighborhood is no longer
registered.

Sorry, but removing the entry does not alter the fact that Gary Lee Burnore
is still a convicted sex offender -- just an unregistered one.

> Now, why don't you come out of hiding so we can track you down and beat
                                                                     ^^^^
> the living fuck out of you?
     
I hate to tell you this, little Burnorian groupie, but you misspelled
"suck".  And who is this "we" you speak of?  The management of Page Planet?
What are you going to do?  Put on your white sheets and burn a cross on
my lawn?

It's people like you and Gary Burnore who threaten and harass people who
say things you don't like that make anonymous remailers necessary.
Otherwise only loudmouth bullies like you would have any freedom of speech.
Thank you for proving that point with your threatening post.

   PagePlanet (PAGEPLANET-DOM)
   3252 Octavia Street
   Raleigh, NC 27606
   US

   Domain Name: PAGEPLANET.COM

   Administrative Contact:
      Crisp, Steve  (SC2795)  crisp@PAGEPLANET.COM
      919-852-5262 (FAX) 919-233-0816
   Technical Contact, Zone Contact:
      Sullivan, Mikey  (MS5652)  mikey@PAGEPLANET.COM
      919-852-5262 (FAX) 919-852-5261
   Billing Contact:
      Crisp, Valerie  (VC370)  valerie@PAGEPLANET.COM
      919-233-6602 (FAX) 919-852-5261





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSqncrs 
Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 12:56:57 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Nobody's Home!
Message-ID: <6122829a.3558a938@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I got only 1 anon. comment worth responding to -
=====
Subj:	 
Date:	5/12/98 2:41:44 PM Central Daylight Time
From:	nobody@nsm.htp.org
To:	stansqncrs@aol.com

"A cultist is one who has a strong belief in the Bible and the Second
Coming of Christ; who frequently attends Bible studies; who has a high
level of financial giving to a Christian cause; who home schools for
their children; who has accumulated survival foods and has a strong
belief in the Second Amendment; and who distrusts big government.  Any
of these may qualify [a person as a cultist] but certainly more than one
[of these] would cause us to look at this person as a threat, and his
family as being in a risk situation that qualified for government
interference."
-Attorney General Janet Reno, Interview on 60 Minutes, June 26, 1994
=====
"One man's religion is another man's cult" - me

Stan,
The 'Wall of Reality'
http/members.aol.com/RealityWal/




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Mordechai Ovits" 
Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 13:14:04 -0700 (PDT)
To: Ryan Anderson 
Subject: Re: Chaffing & winnowing without overhead
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3558ACB7.678309E7@syndata.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Ryan Anderson wrote:

> Note that any of the 2^n plaintexts cna be reconstructed from the
> following sequence of triples.  (Assuming no knowledge of the MAC.  The
> attacker has no idea which of each pair of triples related to each
> sequence is correct, so he must search every possibility, which turns  out
> to be each of the 2^n plaintexts.)

OK, but to be technically correct, you arent *transmitting* all 2^n
possibilities.  That would be like saying that when you blowfish encrypt a
64-bit block and send it, you are sending all 2^64 plaintext, because given
all 2^128 possible keys you will cover the entire "plaintext-space".  while
it is crucial to make sure that you leave the possible decryptions
exponential, you are not transmitting all possible plaintests. That would
be .... uhhh... bad.
-- 
o Mordy Ovits
o Programmer / Cryptographer
o SynData Technologies Inc.
o Download A Free Copy Of Our Software At:
o http://www.syncrypt.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Trei, Peter" 
Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 14:15:24 -0700 (PDT)
To: "'cypherpunks@toad.com>
Subject: FW: "... would cause us to look at this person as a threat"
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


The earliest online citation I can find is in the  May 1997 Newsletter of
the 
Melbourne Seventh-day Adventist Church, at 

http://www.spacey.net/bwillard/News0597.html 

Considering it's content, I have no doubt that it is manufactured - it
carefully written to offend millenialist Christians, such as the SDAs.
I've written the page owner to see if I can find out more.

Deja News shows this quote first in alt.war.civil.usa, on March 18 1998.
Since then, it's been banging around various Christian and political
groups. 

It also seems to be on the website 
http://www.sightings.com/political/renowords.htm, but I have not
confirmed this, nor can I tell if this cites an earlier source.

Peter Trei

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Tim May [SMTP:tcmay@got.net]
> Sent:	Tuesday, May 12, 1998 2:45 PM
> To:	cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
> Subject:	"... would cause us to look at this person as a threat"
> 
> 
> 
> I just saw this on one of the newsgroups:
> 
> 
> "A cultist is one who has a strong belief in the Bible and the Second
> Coming of Christ; who frequently attends Bible studies; who has a high
> level of financial giving to a Christian cause; who home schools for
> their children; who has accumulated survival foods and has a strong
> belief in the Second Amendment; and who distrusts big government.  Any
> of these may qualify [a person as a cultist] but certainly more than one
> [of these] would cause us to look at this person as a threat, and his
> family as being in a risk situation that qualified for government
> interference."
> -Attorney General Janet Reno, Interview on 60 Minutes, June 26, 1994
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Banisar 
Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 14:57:39 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: EPIC Analysis of E-Privacy Act
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


====================================================================

            EPIC Preliminary Analysis of E-PRIVACY Act
                           May 12, 1998
                          Washington, DC


Senators John Ashcroft (R-MO) and Patrick Leahy (D-VT) today
introduced the "Encryption Protects the Rights of Individuals from
Violation and Abuse in Cyberspace (E-PRIVACY) Act."  The proposed
legislation is the latest in a series of congressional measures
designed to resolve the debate surrounding current U.S. encryption
policy.  Like the SAFE Act (H.R. 695) now pending in the House,
the E-PRIVACY Act seeks to relax existing controls on the export
of encryption products.  Controls would be lifted for encryption
products that are deemed to be "generally available" within the
international market.  Exporters would be given new procedural
rights to obtain expedited determinations on the exportability of
their products.

The bill also contains several provisions that would preserve the
right of Americans to use encryption techniques and that would
enhance the privacy protections currently accorded to personal
communications and stored data.  Among its positive features, the
bill:

* Reiterates the right of Americans to use, develop, manufacture,
sell, distribute, or import any encryption product, regardless of
the algorithm selected, key length, or the existence of key
recovery capabilities;

* Prohibits government-compelled key escrow or key recovery;

* Prohibits government agencies from creating any linkage between
cryptographic methods used for authentication and those used for
confidentiality;

* Prohibits the federal government from purchasing key recovery
encryption systems that are not interoperable with other
commercial encryption products; and

* Provides enhanced privacy protections for stored electronic data
held by third parties, location information generated by wireless
communications services, and transactional information obtained
from pen registers and trap and trace devices;

The bill contains two provisions that raise significant civil
liberties and privacy concerns.

The Criminalization Provision

The bill would make the use of encryption to conceal
"incriminating" communications or information during the
commission of a crime a new and independent criminal offense.

While well-intended, the provision could have several unintended
consequences that would easily undermine the other desirable
features of the bill.

We believe it is a mistake to create criminal penalties for the
use of a particular technique or device. Such a provision tends to
draw attention away from the underlying criminal act and casts a
shadow over a valuable technology that should not be criminalized.
It may, for instance, be the case that a typewritten ransom note
poses a more difficult challenge for forensic investigators than a
handwritten note. But it would be a mistake to criminalize the use
of a typewriter simply because it could make it more difficult to
investigate crime in some circumstances.

Additionally, a provision which criminalizes the use of
encryption, even in furtherance of a crime, would give prosecutors
wide latitude to investigate activity where the only indicia of
criminal conduct may be the mere presence of encrypted data. In
the digital age, where techniques to protect privacy and security
will be widely deployed, we cannot afford to view encryption as
the potential instrumentality of a crime, just as we would not
today view the use of a typewriter with suspicion.

Finally, the provision could also operate as a substantial
disincentive to the widespread adoption of strong encryption
techniques in the communications infrastructure. Given that the
availability of strong encryption is one of the best ways to
reduce the risk of crime and to promote public safety, the
retention of this provision in the legislation will send a mixed
message to users and businesses -- that we want people to be free
to use encryption but will be suspicious when it is used.

If the concern is that encryption techniques may be used to
obstruct access to evidence relevant to criminal investigations,
we submit that the better approach may be to rely on other
provisions in the federal and state criminal codes (including
sections relating to obstruction of justice or concealment) to
address this problem if it arises.

The "NET Center"

The bill creates within the Department of Justice a National
Electronic Technology Center (NET Center) to "serve as a center
for . . . law enforcement authorities for information and
assistance regarding decryption and other access requirements."

The NET Center would have a broad mandate and could spawn a new
domestic surveillance bureaucracy within the Department of
Justice.  Among other powers, the bill authorizes the NET Center
to:

* Examine encryption techniques and methods to facilitate the
ability of law enforcement to gain efficient access to plaintext
of communications and electronic information;

* Conduct research to develop efficient methods, and improve the
efficiency of existing methods, of accessing plaintext of
communications and electronic information;

* Investigate and research new and emerging techniques and
technologies to facilitate access to communications and electronic
information; and

* Obtain information regarding the most current hardware,
software, telecommunications, and other capabilities to understand
how to access digitized information transmitted across networks.

The mission of the NET Center is made more troubling by the bill's
authorization of "assistance" from other federal agencies,
including the detailing of personnel to the new entity.  In light
of the fact that existing federal expertise in the areas of
electronic surveillance and decryption resides at the National
Security Agency (NSA), the bill in effect authorizes unprecedented
NSA involvement in domestic law enforcement activities.  Such a
result would be contrary to a half-century-old consensus that
intelligence agencies must be strictly constrained from engaging
in domestic "police functions."

That consensus arose from the recognition that intelligence
agencies created to operate abroad are ill-suited for domestic
activities, where U.S. citizens enjoy constitutional protections
against governmental intrusions.  In 1975, Sen. Frank Church led a
congressional investigation into the activities of NSA.  He noted
that Congress had a "particular obligation to examine the NSA, in
light of its tremendous potential for abuse. ... The danger lies
in the ability of NSA to turn its awesome technology against
domestic communications."

In 1987, Congress enacted the Computer Security Act, which sought
to vest civilian computer security authority in the Commerce
Department and to limit the domestic role of NSA.  The House
Report on the Computer Security Act cited congressional concern
over a Reagan Administration directive that "gave NSA the
authority to use its considerable foreign intelligence expertise
within this country."  The report noted that such authority was
"particularly troubling" since NSA "has, on occasion, improperly
targeted American citizens for surveillance."

The NET Center proposal, if approved, would constitute a
fundamental re-definition of the relationship between intelligence
agencies and domestic law enforcement.  Such an approach would
ignore 50 years of experience and would pose a serious threat to
the privacy and constitutional rights of Americans.

EPIC looks forward to working with the legislation's sponsors and
other interested parties to address these issues and develop a
national encryption policy that will ensure the widespread
availability of robust encryption products and the preservation of
constitutional rights.  Such a result will be critical for both
our nation's continued leadership of the information industry and
the protection of personal privacy in the next century.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 19:08:50 -0700 (PDT)
To: "Mordechai Ovits" 
Subject: Re: Chaffing & winnowing without overhead
In-Reply-To: <35571323.D109A0D2@argo.es>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980512180231.008ae790@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


By the way, instead of transmitting the first bit for which
MAC(sequence,0) differs from MAC(sequence,1), as Jesús suggests,
you can get the same effect by transmitting a 0 or 1 depending on
    MAC(sequence,0) < MAC(sequence,1)
(This assumes a big-endian system and unsigned comparisons;
little-endians will have to calculate it the hard way.)  
If you're willing to be wrong 1 time out of 2**33, 
you can just use the top 32 bits.

Earlier in this discussion:
>> In the Rivest's paper you transmit, indeed, all the 2^n plaintexts for a
>> n bit length };-).
>Not so. In his paper (before the package tranform stuff), he had the following expansion.
>Assuming a 32 bit serial number and a 160 bit MAC, n bits would expand to 388n.
>>To make this clearer with an example, note that the adversary 
>>will see triples of the form:
>>        (1,0,351216)
>>        (1,1,895634)
>>        (2,0,452412)
>>        (2,1,534981)

But that _does send the 2^n plaintexts, which are 0 and 1, and n=1.
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Josh Schoof 
Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 15:18:27 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199805122218.SAA26006@josh1.weboneinc.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


FROM: aj@gaymen.com
SUBJECT: Gay Site

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		GayMen.com
		aj@gaymen.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSqncrs 
Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 15:58:15 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re:"... would cause us to look at this person as a threat"
Message-ID: <23d07d72.3558d3d9@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


In a message dated 5/12/98 4:37:47 PM Central Daylight Time,
ptrei@securitydynamics.com writes:

<< ... Considering it's content, I have no doubt that it is manufactured - it
 carefully written to offend millenialist Christians, such as the SDAs.
 I've written the page owner to see if I can find out more. ... >>

Not only that, it seems to be "spam" (the repetitive list type).  You see 2
days ago we welcomed a guest to my list (FreeGroup), and in his first batch,
guess what was there.  Another FreeGroupie had a great response to it, I
include it -
=====
... writes:

> Well howdy 'yall, i'm mighty proud to have someone to chat wdith and share
>  ideas and some news, both good and bad.
>  here's some bad news to start off the day
>  
>  RE: Janet Reno, Attorney General of these United States of America
>  
>  Subject: Janet Reno Quote
>  > Date: Wednesday, May 06, 1998 10:54
>  > 
>  > A friend sent me this...sure would like to see the interview in context,
>  > but at any rate a very scary statement.
>  > 
>  > Subject: Cults and Government? 
>  > 
>  > "Just ran across this quote from AG Janet Reno. From a person of such
>  > high power, these are scary words. --------- "
 


>  > "-Attorney General Janet Reno, Interview on 60 Minutes, June 26,
>  > 1994"
>  > 

Bad *NEWS*???  This purports to be an item that's nearly 4 years old.  What's
the news?  I guess the news is that we're getting this 3rd hand--at a minimum,
with no idea if it's true or not.  But hey!  This is the internet.  So, again,
I ask, *NEWS*????

Bad beginning, Sir Will.  The willingness to pass along material of dubious
authenticity is not a good sign in my book. As Mr. Natural would say, "Check
your source."  So, what *IS* your source?
=====
Thanks for your excellent research on the origins of that, Peter!

Stan,
FreeGroup - "Just Say It!"
http://members.aol.com/WhtsAMetaU/freegroup.html




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Mark Rosen" 
Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 17:21:50 -0700 (PDT)
To: "Mordechai Ovits" 
Subject: Chaffing and winnowing
Message-ID: <01bd7e04$5802a820$014ce9c7@markdsk.peganet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


    I have just been notified that chaffing and winnowing does, indeed,
violate the export regulations. You can read them for yourself at
http://www.bxa.doc.gov/Encryption/encreg.htm, but here are a few parts


a. Designed or modified to use ``cryptography'' employing digital techniques
to ensure ``information security'';
b. Designed or modified to perform cryptanalytic functions;
c. Designed or modified to use ``cryptography'' employing analog techniques
to ensure ``information security'';
...
Note: 5A002 does not control the following:
b. Equipment containing ``fixed'' data compression or coding techniques;
...
g. Data authentication equipment that calculates a Message
Authentication Code (MAC) or similar result to ensure no alteration of
text has taken place, or to authenticate users, but does not allow for
encryption of data, text or other media other than that needed for the
authentication;

    So it seems 5A002.a  and 5A002.g cover such encryption technologies as
chaffing and winnowing. Interestingly enough, 5A002.b allows such functions
as the package transform (keyless coding), even though it uses encryption
algorithms.


- Mark Rosen
http://www.mach5.com/






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Remo Pini 
Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 13:07:43 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: [Fwd: 3Com switches - undocumented access level.]
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199805121909.VAA31944@linux.rpini.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


To my knowledge (and the rather credible statements of several 3Com
representatives), there are:

No undocumented accesses to SS 1000, 1100, 3000,3300.
There is one documented access to the CB7000, but that can easily be
removed (i.e. -> login in with the magic username and change the password).
We did that at our site, as we never ever forgot a password to our
equipment (yet).

So, what's the hype, the "backdoor" is only for clueless users, not serious
companies with a security policy.
-----------------------------------------------------
Fatum favet volenti. (anon)
-----------------------------------------------------
Remo Pini                         T: +41  1 350 28 88
Pini Computer Trading             N: +41 79 216 15 51

http://www.rpini.com/             Email: rp@rpini.com
----------------------------------------------------- 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Thompson 
Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 00:48:08 -0700 (PDT)
To: cryptography@c2.org
Subject: [rivest@theory.lcs.mit.edu: Chaffing question]
Message-ID: <199805130747.CAA18984@hosaka.smallworks.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



With all of the discussion of C&W, and potential expansion, along with
a sideband discussion of same, I decided to ask 'the man' himself.

The '10K email file' used in the example came from the sideband discussion.

Forwarded for your edification.

 ------- Start of forwarded message -------
 Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 18:24:46 -0400
 From: Ron Rivest 
 Subject: Chaffing question

 Suppose you can start with a 10KB email file.

 Running a package (all-or-nothing) transform on it adds only a small
 amount to the length---say 128 bits total, or less (basically the length
 of a key in your favorite algorithm).

 You can break the result into 128 one-bit blocks and one 10KB block.  MAC
 each block.

 Add 128 bits of chaff, intermingled with the first 128 blocks from above.

 The final result has 128+128+1 packets, and total length 10KB (the
 original email) + 257*64 bits (for the 257 64-bit MAC values) plus 128
 bits (the chaff bits), and assuming that the sequence numbers are
 implicit rather than explicit, you get a total of around 12.3 KB.  

	 Cheers,
	 Ron

 ------- End of forwarded message -------

-- 
Jim Thompson / Smallworks, Inc. / jim@smallworks.com  
      512 338 0619 phone / 512 338 0625 fax
Real, cheap Hardware RNG:  http://www.fringeware.com/nscd/






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 18:37:11 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Gary Lee Burnore is a Convicted Sex Offender in Raleigh, NC
In-Reply-To: <199805101850.LAA00114@sirius.infonex.com>
Message-ID: <199805130137.DAA03874@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


wmcclatc@primenet.com (William J. McClatchie)

> X-Comment: Aw, are you offended?  
> X-no-archive: yes  
 
> [anonymous makes illegal usage of information, as defined by the state he
> got the info from, and then whines] 

And your legal basis for calling the posting of public information from a
public website to usenet "illegal usage" is ???  Presumably if the state
had wanted to keep the info secret, they wouldn't have made it public
available.

The only whining I've seen has been by Gary Burnore who complained that the
state of North Carolina failed to keep his conviction as a sex offender a
secret, and by various DataBasix sock puppets and groupies.

Burnore did the crime, he was convicted, he registered as a sex offender
with the state of NC, the information was made publicly available by the
state, and people found out as they were intended to.  Deal with it!

Maybe you ought to learn a little about remailers before you make such
ridiculous claims, McClatchie.  If I'm the person you say "whined", then
I'm *NOT* the same person who posted the information that Gary whined
about.  Sorry to burst Gary's bubble that all posts which poor little Gary
Burnore doesn't like originate from his one mythical "Anon Asshole ".
In fact, the information is just as likely to have been posted anonymously
by YOU as by me.

> >It's people like you and Gary Burnore who threaten and harass people who
> >say things you don't like that make anonymous remailers necessary.
> 
> >And it is assholes like you who ABUSE remailers that make them go away.  

Let me get this straight...  Someone threatens a remailer user with
physical violence, I comment on it, and now I'm "abusing a remailer" just
because you don't like what I have to say?  Don't you think that's for the
remailer operator to decide?  Do you operate a remailer, McClatchie?




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: eridani@databasix.com (Belinda)
Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 01:18:03 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Abusive crossposting by anonymous remailer user (Was: Gary L. Burnore blah blah blah)
In-Reply-To: <199805101850.LAA00114@sirius.infonex.com>
Message-ID: <199805130820.EAA18605@databasix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


In article <199805130137.DAA03874@basement.replay.com>,
nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)  wrote:

[who cares what he wrote]

Where's the idiot who was ranting about kooks who crosspost threads
everywhere and called -me- a Usenet abuser?  Take a look at the
references in this one:

References: <199805101850.LAA00114@sirius.infonex.com>
<3555FA78.7795@pageplanet.com>
<199805121307.PAA21528@basement.replay.com>
<6ja344$i2h@nntp02.primenet.com>


<199805101850.LAA00114@sirius.infonex.com>
 posted to triangle.general only

<3555FA78.7795@pageplanet.com>
 posted to triangle.general only

<199805121307.PAA21528@basement.replay.com>
posted to:  alt.fan.gburnore,triangle.general,alt.vigilantes,
alt.netcom.emeritus,alt.cypherpunks,news.admin.censorship,
alt.privacy,alt.privacy.anon-server,misc.kids


And there we have it, folks.  The anonymous stalker who's spent the past
year following Gary Burnore around Usenet found a post in
triangle.general that mentioned him, added a propaganda-filled follow up
to it, and posted it to 9 newsgroups--many of whom have repeatedly
requested that this crap be kept out of said groups.

Oh and lookee what else:  it was mailed to cypherpunks@toad.com,
presumably for archival on the cypherpunks mailing list, where it will
be picked up by WWW search engines.  Since those folks don't seem to
mind having their archives used in personal grudge matches, I'll just
start cc'ing my responses there as well.  I'm sure, as champions of free
speech, they can understand the necessity of making sure both sides of
the story get equal time.

--

Belinda















From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 08:27:52 -0700 (PDT)
To: wire@monkey-boy.com
Subject: Hidden US government
Message-ID: <3559B706.F@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Guys

There is a segment in the US government who do whatever they want.

Like stinging Iran.

The segment thinks that they are unaccountable.

We want to change this.

And get our money too!


Wednesday 5/13/98 7:40 AM

Lawyers and netizens

Morales and my last Friday filing seen at
http://www.jya.com/whp050898.htm

is causing comments at http://www.jya.com/mf050998.htm and elsewhere.

One of my neighbors, Bill Moe, is a retired AF officer and now an APD
cop.

Moe commented that no lawyer would ever write a document like the one
we FILED.

Morales is ready to go to the Supreme Court on this case for the reasons
of
Campos dismissing DIR NSA Minihan.

Morales feels that this decision make no one in a federal agency
accountable..

We will also probably have to appeal the dismissal of Morales too.  Bad
precedent.

Now that we have copies of the docket sheets seen at
http://www.jya.com/whp-10usca.htm
we must study them.

We will do this at noon today.

Then we will begin the process of filing criminal complaint affidavits
on Tenth
circuit judges and judge Joseph Weis, of the Third circuit.

Dolores K. Sloviter
Chief Judge, Third Circuit
18614 U.S. Courthouse 
Philadelphia, PA 19106
215-597-1588

also EARNED a criminal complaint affidavit along with clerks Bradford
Baldus
and Toby Slawsky.

Slawsky earned another for sending US Marshals Lester and Lopez to
investigate me,
with no letter of authorization, for "inappropriate communications."

The matter of Campos' in camera ex parte meeting with NSA is also
causing CONCERN.
http://www.jya.com/whp043098.htm

NM judge John Conway had an ex parte in camera meeting with Sandia/NSA
high tech 
terrorist James Gosler in 1992 in my ADEA lawsuit.

Conway then sealed all of my lawsuit court records and halted discovery.

Then there was the matter in both my and Morales lawsuits of  material
showing up in the
final district decisions which was not in pleadings.

A district federal court spy gave us information that Sandia wrote the
decision for, in 
Morales case, judge Galvan and my case, John Conway.

These actions by judges and court clerks largely prompted Morales and my
genocide 
and crypto incompetence lawsuit.

We know that the federal courts and the legal system are LARGELY
controlled by the 
US federal government.

This is becoming more obvious to all by those who read
http://www.jya.com/whp043098.htm.

The US Hidden government is in reality a fascist government.

  FASCISM -   a political and economic movement, strongly nationalistic,
magnifying the rights
  of the state as opposed to those of the individual, in which industry,
though  remaining largely 
  under private ownership, and all administrative political units,  are
controlled by a strong central   government.

Since Morales and I have both lost money as a result of actions of a
fascist government, we struck at the heart of the US Hidden government
[aka The Great Satan] with our genocide and crypto incompetence lawsuit.

Representative Cynthia McKinney [CYMCK@mail.house.gov ] and Senator
Grassley [chuck_grassley@grassley.senate.gov] are in possession of the
Swiss Radio International audio tape telling the saga of Hans Buehler's
arrest in Teheran in 1992 for espionage.

Hopefully those who are concerned can share their concerns about
possible consequences of NOT releasing our requested documents on
Internet.  And, too, encourage settlement of this NSA-caused American
tragedy. http://caq.com/cryptogate 
http://www.aci.net/kalliste/speccoll.htm

Morales and I continue to feel that we should settled this unfortunate
matter before it gets WORSE.

Later
bill






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Stephen Zander 
Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 09:43:42 -0700 (PDT)
To: "Mark Rosen" 
Subject: Re: Chaffing and winnowing
In-Reply-To: <01bd7e04$5802a820$014ce9c7@markdsk.peganet.com>
Message-ID: <874syut9ld.fsf@wsuse5.mckesson.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


>>>>> "Mark" == Mark Rosen  writes:
    Mark> Note: 5A002 does not control the following: b. Equipment
    Mark> containing ``fixed'' data compression or coding techniques;
    Mark> ...  g. Data authentication equipment that calculates a
    Mark> Message Authentication Code (MAC) or similar result to
    Mark> ensure no alteration of text has taken place, or to
    Mark> authenticate users, but does not allow for encryption of
    Mark> data, text or other media other than that needed for the
    Mark> authentication;

But wasn't that the gist of Rivest's paper: he's not encrypting the
message, he's just obscuring it really, really well.

All this needs someone with the cash & the time to push it to court...

-- 
Stephen
---
all coders are created equal; that they are endowed with certain
unalienable rights, of these are beer, net connectivity, and the
pursuit of bugfixes...  - Gregory R Block




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: mkwan@preston.net (Matthew Kwan)
Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 16:42:35 -0700 (PDT)
To: rcv@dopey.verser.frii.com
Subject: Bitslice DES S-boxes
Message-ID: <199805122341.JAA18008@preston-gw.preston.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


After 6 weeks of number crunching, I've finally produced a new set of
bitslice DES S-boxes using non-standard logic gates.

Numbers are as follows -

	S1  S2  S3  S4  S5  S6  S7  S8   Avg
	56  50  53  39  56  53  51  50   51

Details at http://www.cs.mu.oz.au/~mkwan/bitslice

There won't be any more improvements in the foreseeable future, since
I've run out of ideas.

Feel free to use this code in the RSA DES II challenge, but remember to
give credit where it's due.


mkwan




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: jim@mentat.com (Jim Gillogly)
Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 11:18:31 -0700 (PDT)
To: whitelaw@ndirect.co.uk
Subject: Re: Encryption trends and legal issues
Message-ID: <9805131814.AA00340@mentat.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Gavin skribis:
> I am looking for information on the legal and export issues on
> encryption around the world and the current use of different encryption
> algorithms today.

For legal/export issues:
http://cwis.kub.nl/~frw/people/koops/lawsurvy.htm

He keeps it up-to-date, and it covers the world.  For current use of
different encryption algorithms, I think TIS has a continuing project
monitoring availability of packages worldwide using different systems.

	Jim Gillogly




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: vpuser@u041.oh.vp.com (ADMIN-Standard VP login)
Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 09:23:37 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Question reports on Y2K report
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hello,

Has anyone read "The McAlvany Intelligence Advisor" of Febuary 1998?

Title:
The millenium Bug: Global cyber-meltdown in the year 2000 PART 1

Mr McAlvany has a very domesday perspective.  Does his report have
alot of Truth or alot of Hype?

Please don't flame me to hard for my ignorance,  I'm just attempting
to seperate the CHAF from the WHEAT.

Thank you for any guidance
Brian

-- 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 12:54:02 -0700 (PDT)
To: wmadsen@explorer.csc.com
Subject: Pottery, Stalingrad , Fascists, Sandinistas, and settlement, of course
Message-ID: <3559F93A.1828@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Wednesday 5/13/98 1:17 PM

John Young
J Orlin Grabbe

Tuesday evening Patty and I journeyed to Placitas, NM.

Patty was going to have some kindergarten student pottery
projects kiln fired.

Karl and Mary Hofmann are fine artists.  Pottery.

Both are graduate school graduates in fine arts.

Karl is German-born.

Karl told me his brother helped build the Russian pipeline system.
And it isn't buried deep enough.

Karl told me his brother was captured at Stalingrad.

I think that I read that only about 10% who were captured at Stalingrad
lived to return. http://www.semionoff.com/cellular/hacking/phreaking/

Patty and I bought you both identical gifts from Hofmann's.

I am on the way to mail them.

Thank you both for so much for what you both have done.  Visibility.

http://jya.com/whpfiles.htm
http://www.aci.net/kalliste/

The Hidden US Government was trying to bury us in their invisible grave
yard.

But NOW the WORLD is on to the composition of the US Hidden Government.

  FASCISM -   a political and economic movement, strongly nationalistic,
magnifying the rights
  of the state as opposed to those of the individual, in which industry,
though  remaining largely 
  under private ownership, and all administrative political units,  are
controlled by a strong central   government.

Especially, after all of this, aggrieved Shiite Muslims. 
http://www.wpiran.org/

And now, perhaps, even Sandinistas too.

Carlos brought Swiss Radio International audio tape to Nicaragua this
spring from Moscow ... Idaho,
that is.  http://caq.com/cryptogate

Let's all hope for prompt PEACEFUL settlement of this HORRIBLE chapter
in US history.

Later
bill






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 11:00:00 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Philodox Symposium: Digital Bearer Transaction Settlement
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



--- begin forwarded text


X-Sender: rah@pop.sneaker.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 12:54:33 -0400
To: Digital Bearer Settlement List 
From: Robert Hettinga 
Subject: Philodox Symposium: Digital Bearer Transaction Settlement
Sender: 
Precedence: Bulk
List-Subscribe: 
X-Web-Archive: http://www.philodox.com/dbs-archive/


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Announcement Date: May 13, 1998


The Philodox Symposium on Digital Bearer Transaction Settlement
The Downtown Harvard Club
Boston, Massachusetts
July 23-24, 1998

Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism, of Boston, Massachusetts, in
association with the Digital Commerce Society of Boston, announces the
first in a series of symposia, conferences and workshops on the subject of
digital bearer transaction settlement.

The first of these gatherings, a symposium examining the technology,
economics, markets and law of digital bearer settlement, will be held at
the Harvard Club of Boston, Thursday and Friday, July 23 and 24, 1998.


What is Digital Bearer Settlement?

A digital bearer transaction is one where a cryptographically secure
value-object, issued and underwritten by a third party, is exchanged
between the two parties in a trade, typically over a public internetwork.
The object, when passed in trade for something else of value, executes,
clears, and settles the transaction instantaneously, securely, and,
usually, anonymously. And, at considerable savings in transaction cost
compared to "book-entry" transactions, such as credit and debit cards,
checks, and modern securities clearing methods.

It is estimated that $100 billion in transactions are being executed on the
internet annually.  40% of all retail stock trades are now executed from
the net, for instance. If it's possible to properly call a credit card
transaction transmitted under Secure Socket Layer to be settled and cleared
on the net itself, then an estimated maximum of $10 billion of those
transactions, 10%, are actually cleared and settled on the net, with
marginal market share to other transaction protocols. By comparison, $3
trillion in foreign exchange transactions are executed, cleared and settled
every day, using standard book-entry processes.

There are electronic check and debit protocols in experimental development,
but, as transaction settlement time tends towards the instantaneous, the
more cost, security, and non-repudiation advantages there are for digital
bearer settlement.

It is not unreasonable to see how transaction costs can be reduced
enormously by digital bearer settlement, possibly by several orders of
magnitude over any analogous book-entry method. It is completely
conceivable that digital bearer transactions, of all kinds and sizes, from
macrobonds to micropayments, will be executed, cleared, and settled on
ubiquitous global internetworks, and will become the dominant transaction
mechanism over time on those networks, and, by extension, in the global
economy in general.

It may happen sooner than we can imagine. Electronic book-entry settlement
itself is only 40 years old at best, and internet financial cryptography
and digital bearer settlement are much more a phenomenon of collapsing
microprocessor prices than electronic book-entry settlement ever was.


The Philodox Digital Bearer Transaction Settlement Events

Towards that end, Philodox has taken it upon itself to focus the attention
of the information technology, financial and legal communities onto the
technology of digital bearer settlement though the following series of
events. First, this initial Symposium of professionals interested in
digital bearer settlement, to be held in Boston. Then, contingent on
interest, a peer-reviewed Financial Research Conference to be held
during the winter of 1998-99 in Manhattan or Washington, followed by a
small Developer's Conference in the spring of 1999, held in more casual
surroundings, and, finally, a teaching Workshop for Financial Professionals
held in the summer of 1999 at a resort location, probably Bretton Woods, New
Hampshire. It is hoped by Philodox that some, or perhaps, all, of these
events will be recurring ones, and of course, that they will increase in
attendance over time.


The Symposium

Each section of the Symposium agenda will consist of a short presentation
on the topic by the most expert symposium participant on the subject
present, followed by discussions led by a moderator. While it is not
expected that everyone will even be conversant on each topic, it is
expected that participants will bring their own particular expertise to
bear on specific elements of the symposium program, and, of course, not
everyone will have to present something.

We have a lot to teach each other, but, fortunately, most of the people who
are interested enough in this topic to come to this first symposium will
know more than enough to have at least some opinions on the topics under
discussion, and will certainly want to share those opinions with everyone
else.  Finally, there are lots of differing opinions this subject, so
expect some animated discussion.

Because of the expected demand and the size of the Harvard Club space we're
using, participation in the symposium will be limited, and advance
registration will be required. See below for details.


The Symposium Agenda

Agenda

The Philodox Symposium on Digital Bearer Transaction Settlement
The Downtown Harvard Club of Boston
July 23-24, 1998


Thursday, July 23, 1998
(Club Dress Code: jacket and tie, no jeans or sneakers)

0730-0830:  Check-in, Breakfast

0830-0845:  Welcome

0845-1015:  History of Bearer Transaction Settlement

            How old is bearer settlement?
            Why should we think about physical bearer settlement?
            What were the market models for underwriting digital bearer
             instruments?
            What sanctions prevented non-repudiation?
            What happened to physical bearer settlement?
            What is digital bearer settlement?
            How was it invented?
            What is the status of digital bearer settlement now?

1015-1030:  Break

1030-1200:  Digital Bearer Settlement Technology Survey and Forecasts

            What are the different digital bearer settlement protocols?
            How do they work?
            Which ones are on the market today?
            What are some of the technical limits of these protocols?
            Can they be overcome and do they need to be?
            What kinds of technology is in the labs?

1200-1300:  Lunch

1300-1500:  Bearer Settlement Legal/Regulatory Survey and Forecasts

            How did we get transaction regulation in the first place?
            What are the legal restrictions on bearer transactions
             in general?
            What are the laws on strong cryptography?
            How do the above laws and regulations effect the prospects
             for digital bearer settlement?
            What effect will cash-settled, and possibly anonymous,
             digital auction markets have on intellectual property rights?

1500-1515:  Break

1515-1715:  Possible Legal/Regulatory Solutions

            What can be done about bearer settlement law and regulation?
            Are there ways that internet digital bearer settlement can
             coexist with book-entry settlement laws?
            Will the potential cost savings overcome the need to regulate?
            What about intellectual property laws?
            Should there be a legislative/regulatory strategy?
            If so, what would it look like?

1730-1930:  Reception, Cocktails and Hors d'Oeurves


Friday, July 23, 1998
(Dress Code: "business casual", no jeans or sneakers)

0800-0830:  Breakfast

0830-0845:  Announcements

0845-1015:  Internet Transaction Settlement Economic/Financial Survey
             and Forecasts

            What is the annual dollar volume of all transactions worldwide?
            How are they broken up by payment mechanism?
            What is the actual and forecasted dollar volume of internet
             transaction execution?
            How will those transactions clear and settle?
            What are the current clearing and settlement costs?
            What are the expected costs of internet digital bearer
             settlement?
            What is the micro- and macroeconomic impact of a digital bearer
             settled economy?

1015-1030:  Break

1030-1200:  Capital Market Applications for Digital Bearer Settlement

            What kinds of securities can you create digital bearer
             instruments for?
            How do they work?
            How do you vote stock, collect dividends, etc.?
            Can you really do limited liability in software, without law?
            What size transactions can be cleared and settled like this?
            How much transaction volume can a digital bearer market handle?

1200-1300:  Lunch

1300-1430:  Other Market Applications for Digital Bearer Settlement

            Just how ubiquitous can the internet be?
            Can you create cash settled pay-per-use utilities? Even roads?
            Digital bearer gambling tokens? "Digital Collectibles"??
            Lions, and tigers, and bears: "Perfect kidnappings",
             "crypto-anarchy", auction markets for force, geodesic warfare,
             the end of civilization as we know it, and other monsters
             under the bed.

1430-1445:  Break

1445-1630:  New Product/Market Ideas for Digital Bearer Settlement

            Who are the entrepreneurs?
            What else can we do with digital bearer instruments?
            When is the transition to digital bearer settlement
             going to happen?
            Where's the most bang for the buck, right now?
            How are we going to make money on this?

1630-1645:  Closing


Symposium Cost and Registration

The cost for the Philodox Symposium on Digital Bearer Transaction
Settlement is $447, payable by company check or personal money order to
"Philodox", and sent to Robert Hettinga, Philodox Financial Technology
Evangelism, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA, 02131, USA. Massachusetts
residents should add 6% sales tax. Please contact Robert Hettinga
, or  for wire
instructions if it is necessary to make your payment by bank wire.

Include the participant(s) name, shirt size, email address, and company
affliation, if applicable, with your check or money order. Confirmation of
your check and your Symposium seat will be sent by email. If you pay by
wire, please notify Mr. Hettinga by email that you intend to do so, and
include in your email the other requested information.

In order to organize the Symposium properly, payment must be received by
Philodox no later than noon, Thursday, July 9th, 1998. Again, attendance to
the Symposium is limited, so please register as soon as possible to assure
your seat.

The Symposium fee goes towards conference room rental, breakfasts,
lunches, a cocktail reception on Thursday night, snacks, audio-visual
rental, internet access on-site, various mementoes of the occasion, and, of
course, Philodox's event management fee.


Scholarships

A small number of scholarship fee-waivers will be available, contingent
upon direct sponsorship and the size of the Symposium, to be selected by
Philodox and based upon the applicant's financial need and ability to
contribute to the symposium. Please contact Robert Hettinga, , or , if you want to request
a fee-waiver.


Sponsorship

In addition to direct event and website sponsorship opportunities,
including the possiblity of exhibition space, there are several in-kind
sponsorship opportunites available, particularly in the areas of
audio-video services and internet services, including internet access,
web-casting and web-page development. Please contact Robert Hettinga,
, or , if you're
interested in in-kind or direct sponsorship of the Symposium.


The Digital Bearer Settlement Email List: dbs@philodox.com

As part of Philodox's ongoing support of the technology of digital bearer
settlement, an email list has been established to discuss the technology
and it's ramifications in an unmoderated, informal setting. Please see
 to see the archives of the Digital Bearer
Settlement discussion list, and its subscription information.  If there is
enough demand, an additional announcement list for the Symposium itself
will be created, but it is hoped that the Symposium's participants will use
dbs@philodox.com as a "watering hole" for their discussions.


Who is Philodox?

Philodox is a new financial technology evangelism company founded by Robert
Hettinga, founder of the Digital Commerce Society of Boston, and founding
moderator and editor of several internet discussion lists and newsletters
on digital commerce and financial cryptography. Mr Hettinga is also the
founder of both the International Conference on Financial Cryptography, and
the International Financial Cryptography Association.

For more information on Philodox, please see . For
more information on Robert Hettinga, please see .
For more information on the Digital Commerce Society see . For more information on the
International Conference on Financial Cryptography, see
.


See You in Boston!

Cordially,
Robert Hettinga

Founder,
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism
Boston, Massachusetts


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0
Charset: noconv

iQEVAwUBNVnPvMUCGwxmWcHhAQGEDwf6AzFX53KDFRwNieTsU7M19nLf7F88BNWM
bu+ii9aJsrAFlvkllyFuruVMjEWiYpNTfj5xPEJaaIxeHFRR6vNJet7XekAMjg1O
ZeYzs86I9DovtSIpSuSt3uHcPuwPgE9ZvO0parHwUl64uZ1cTldExYPCaquqU1K0
YzOVI+01MNKs/T5Zo68nRhkm1DfzYCE3DjKs4YA2mgA8nmgpqjhbnncOYATgv3Up
H+RRLLVSHD3nKh2RdK49RtGpRg6YvDRI3FP0vPaPTAMNy6A0KREhcnixZp8CZhBC
X510YO4ctlUkcS6esfSL9NyDZNlvLPZ4DdFveFgCurqvrUF5dyHMvQ==
=6min
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

-----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/

--- end forwarded text



-----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 06:11:15 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Abusive crossposting by anonymous remailer user (Was: Gary Lee Burnore is a Convicted Sex Offender in Raleigh, NC)
In-Reply-To: <3555FA78.7795@pageplanet.com>
Message-ID: <199805131311.PAA05504@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


eridani@databasix.com (Belinda Bryan) wrote:

> And there we have it, folks.  The anonymous stalker who's spent the past
> year following Gary Burnore around Usenet found a post in
> triangle.general that mentioned him, added a propaganda-filled follow up
> to it, and posted it to 9 newsgroups--many of whom have repeatedly
> requested that this crap be kept out of said groups.

"Anonymous stalker"?  For merely posting a reply to a public post on
Usenet?  What state or country has a statute against that, and what makes
you think the poster falls under its jurisdiction if it does exist?  As for
whether a certain post is "propaganda", that is for the reader to decide,
especially when of the content is independently verifiable.  The
"propaganda" you refer to was apparently intended to refute the fallacious
assertion that since Gary Lee Burnore's entry in the North Carolina
official database of registered sex offenders had apparently been removed,
then the underlying crime for which he was convicted and required to
register somehow automagically never happened.  To make such an assertion
is to invite rebuttal.

The thread you're whining about involved Steve Crisp 
threatening an anonymous poster with "beating the living fuck out of you"
if his/her identity could be determined, a second anonymous poster
challenging the propriety of such a threat, and yet another DataBasix
groupie, William McClatchie , calling the second
anonymous poster a "remailer abuser" for daring to make such a challenge.
So rather than denouncing the threat itself, you choose to call the person
challenging it an "anonymous stalker"?  If you feel no need to "hide"
anything, please feel free to post your street address and home phone
number.  But I imagine that many people with small children would not want
their names, from which their street address can be derived by someone with
the resources available to you and Gary Burnore, to fall into the hands of
a convicted child molester with a history of abusive retaliation.

Being threatened with physical violence for making an unpopular post is
one of the best arguments available as to why anonymity is necessary when
people like Steve Crisp and convicted child molester Gary Lee Burnore are
running around loose making those threats.

> Oh and lookee what else:  it was mailed to cypherpunks@toad.com,
> presumably for archival on the cypherpunks mailing list, where it will
> be picked up by WWW search engines.  Since those folks don't seem to
> mind having their archives used in personal grudge matches, I'll just
> start cc'ing my responses there as well.  I'm sure, as champions of free
> speech, they can understand the necessity of making sure both sides of
> the story get equal time.
 
This, of course, comes from the same Belinda Bryan who impersonated a
lawyer for DataBasix to demand the disclosure of (fortunately non-existant)
user logs from the Huge Cajones remailer in a failed Scientology-esque
attempt to embarass its users.  And that attack, BTW, started because Gary
Burnore was pissed that an anonymous whistle blower used a remailer to tip
of his victim's mother to the molestation.  As is typical of his style,
Burnore denounced that legitimate use of anonymity as "harassment" and
"abuse".  

It was also Burnore who chose to make PUBLIC what had previously been a
private e-mail, thus inviting his critics to factually evaluate the claims.
One of them apparently did so and discovered Gary Burnore's name and mug
shot were published on an official PUBLIC website of registered sex
offenders maintained by the state of North Carolina where Burnore moved
after leaving San Francisco.  Perhaps he should have learned a lesson from
Gary Hart and not have taunted the wrong people to find evidence of his
wrongdoing.

Will the continual harangue against privacy and anonymity by Gary Lee
Burnore, Belinda Bryan, Billy McClatchie, and other staffers and sock
puppets of the DataBasix wrecking crew never end?

BTW, Belinda, cross-posting your whining drivel in the fashion you're
threatening negates your lame attempts to achieve deniability by using the
infamous X-No-Archive header that has become the trademark of DataBasix'
denizens.  IOW, you won't be able to retroactively claim that an
embarassing post from you was "forged" because it's not archived at an
unbiased, third party site.  Can you say "oops"?




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: vpuser@u041.oh.vp.com (ADMIN-Standard VP login)
Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 12:12:05 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Question reports on Y2K report
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Declan,


Unfortunately it does not have a URL it is a printed report ( Febuary
1998), & I was given a copy of it.  One paragraph in the report ( that
I have read so far) does reference http://www.garynorth.com 

==========
NOTE:
Have not had the time to look at the Home Page for the report, but
could possibly be at http://www.mcalvany.com
===========

However, the report it self discusses all areas that the Y2K bug could
affect. The Only location, that I have found so far, is at the
subscription office  ( subscription is to high for me )

MIA
P.O. Box 84904
Phoenix, AZ 85071


Brian

> 
> Want to give me a URL?
> 
> -Declan
> 
> 
> 


-- 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: cons0005@algnet.algonquinc.on.ca
Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 14:06:26 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Email Bot
Message-ID: <199805132105.RAA10590@algnet.algonquinc.on.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I was wondering if anyone knows of such a creature that I could send 
email to with an URL, and I would get a reply of that HTML file?
example I email   bot@somewhere.com with the 
Subject:http://www.hotmail.com

and I will get an email of the HTML file at www.hotmail.com
This would be handy because I don't have a broswer (2 meg RAM (I 
know)) and also for anonymity, cookies etc I couldn't be traced.




When you send mail, do you use a postcard or an envelope?
Get PGP (tm)                        my pgpID@ 0xD0186E85 
http://wabakimi.carleton.ca/~nmarion/pgp.html    -yashy-




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: XXX Mail Service 
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 01:10:43 -0700 (PDT)
To: adult3@xxxmail.net
Subject: Are you getting traffic for free?
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980513172010.00a0b168@208.15.12.231>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



If you are not getting traffic for FREE, the check out Sex Button;

http://www.sexbutton.com

The #1 way to generate fresh traffic to your site at no cost to yourself
when you use EXIT mode.  Unlike other programs Sex Button does not send all
*your* traffic to sponsors and click thru programs, it goes back to you.

 - Fresh traffic
 - More uniques
 - No sponsors
 - No banners
 - Traffic increase for free
 - Three different modes

Thanks for your time.


----------------------------------


Looking for content?

Then check out the #1 content on the 'net;

http://www.scarlett.net/starter






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 105263.2354@compuserve.com
Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 17:51:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Complete Internet Marketing
Message-ID: <199805140051.RAA16848@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Complete Internet Marketing
The E-mail Resource Center
toll free.....800-942-7913....toll free
fax 732-367-2229

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No matter what your target is, we can compile a great list for you of people or 
businesses that may have an interest in what you have to offer.
We can do all of the email for you and have the replies come directly to your email 
address or we can accept the replies for you here and forward the replies to you.  Our 
addresses are compiled fresh for you as per your order. These email addresses can 
even be pulled geographically for you as well.
Address Lists start at $50 per thousand and we can offer you a better price on higher 
quantities.  Our clients are getting great results, so can you.

Bulk Email Programs.....

MAIL PUSHER
Want Your Mail to get in? We Have "Mail Pusher" - 
100% Delivery..State of the art penetration software. A Stealth Type Program on 
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RAPID FIRE MAIL SERVER
This is the next generation of mass mail software. This allows you to turn your own 
computer into a bona fide mail server using a dial-up account or a dedicated ISDN or 
T-1. This program has several unique features. It delivers the mail directly from your 
computer which is now the mail server to the recipients mail server and let's you watch 
each piece of mail get delivered to the recipients mail box. No more guessing and 
seeding It sends at about 50,000 to 80,000 per hour from a 28.8 modem. If that isn't 
enough the program send in color with simple point and click controls to set font 
colors, background colors and make fonts bold, italics as well as align left, right or 
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Demo Available..Price only $395.00

STEALTH MASS MAILER
Stealth Sending Software - Transmits at 250,000 to 350,000 from a 33 modem with a
modest Pentium with 20 connections. THE INDUSTRY WORKHORSE. We are an 
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(non supported) is included with Stealth at no extra cost, along
with CDS Check by Fax Software for free, plus 9 million addresses.
Demo Available..Price only $295.00

HURRICANE
Extremely fast. This extractor goes to major search engines (you can pick from a list of 
10 of the most popular search engines) and conducts a search by keyword or 
keywords. It then spiders the web pages that come up as search results extracting the 
email addresses and saving them in a plain text format. You can define how deep the 
search is to be. You can filter out addresses such as those with webmaster or admin. 
You can use additional filters to have the software only include url's containing certain 
keywords. It can also eliminate certain url's with specified keywords. This makes for 
some very tight targeting. The cost of Hurricane is $295 but scroll down to see the 
package deal.

GEO SNAKE
This is a targeted list builder that could also be used to collect general addresses. You 
input a city and state and hit the start button, kick back and watch it collect. Quite fast. 
Easy to use. The cost of geo Snake is $295.

NEWS SLEUTH
This software extracts email addresses from newsgroup postings by keyword. It 
targets. Very fast and easy to use. This software has a number of useful options to help 
you get the exact results you want so reading the help file is recommended. The demo 
will allow you to see how fast and easy it is to use but will not allow you to save or use 
the addresses collected. Cost of News Sleuth is $295.

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With this super easy to use software you can target addresses based on search engine
 keywords. Examples would be shoe manufacturers, chemical adhesives, retail clothing 
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engines simultaneously, visiting the web sites and extracting the email addresses, 
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child could learn to use this software in 15 minutes or less. Super easy. It runs in the 
background allowing you to perform other tasks with your computer. The yield will 
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remember these are highly targeted lists that others charge big money for. Cherry 
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This is the greatest list manager program we know of. Does everything and then some. 
Cost is $199.00 Check out the demo, you'll be glad you did.

We accept Visa/Mastercard/American Express and Check by Fax.
Please call our toll free number for more information on all of our services. You can 
instantly download demos of all of our software.

CALL NOW...800-942-7913  OR FAX US AT 732-367-2229
To be removed from our database, please call us toll free and state your email address 
(please speak slowly and clearly) so that we can be sure to get your address clearly 
and we will honor your request to be removed immediately. We are responsible 
Internet Marketers.
Thank you! 






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 14:55:40 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: International Crime Control Strategy
Message-ID: <199805132155.RAA03248@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



                            THE WHITE HOUSE

                    Office of the Press Secretary
________________________________________________________________________
For Immediate Release                                       May 12, 1998



                  INTERNATIONAL CRIME CONTROL STRATEGY


BACKGROUND

International crime is a serious and potent threat to the American
people at home and abroad.  Drug and firearms trafficking, terrorism,
money laundering, counterfeiting, illegal alien smuggling, trafficking
in women and children, advanced fee scams, credit card fraud, auto
theft, economic espionage, intellectual property theft, computer
hacking, and public corruption are all linked to international criminal
activity and all have a direct impact on the security and prosperity of
the American people.

Americans spend billions of dollars annually on cocaine and heroin, all
of which originates abroad; in 1997, there were 123 terrorist attacks
against U.S. targets worldwide, including 108 bombings and eight
kidnappings; each year, approximately one billion dollars worth of
stolen cars are smuggled out of this country; annually, U.S. companies
lose up to $23 billion from the illegal duplication and piracy of films,
compact discs, computer software, pharmaceutical and textile products,
while U.S. credit card companies suffer losses of hundreds of millions
of dollars from international fraud; and several hundred U.S. companies
and other organizations have already suffered computer attacks in 1998,
resulting in millions of dollars of losses and significant threats to
our safety and security.

PURPOSE

The International Crime Control Strategy (ICCS) addresses this
increasing threat by providing a framework for integrating all facets of
the federal government response to international crime.  This first-ever
strategy reflects the high priority accorded international crime by this
Administration and builds on such existing strategies as the National
Drug Control Strategy and the Presidential Directives on alien
smuggling, counter-terrorism and nuclear materials safety and security.

The ICCS is also an important initiative in terms of enhancing the
ability of U.S. law enforcement officials to cooperate effectively with
their overseas counterparts in investigating and prosecuting
international crime cases.  At the upcoming Birmingham Summit, G-8
leaders will discuss international crime as one of the most pressing
issues related to increasing globalization and rapid technological and
economic change.  President Clinton will highlight the new ICCS in
underscoring the U.S. commitment to close cooperation with all nations
who are mobilizing to confront this increasing threat.

OVERVIEW

The ICCS is a plan of action containing eight broad goals with thirty
implementing objectives.  The ICCS expresses President Clinton's resolve
to combat international crime aggressively and substantially reduce its
impact on the daily lives of the American people.

The Strategy's eight goals and related objectives are:

1.   Extend the First Line of Defense Beyond U.S. Borders by 
     (a) preventing acts of international crime planned abroad before 

     they occur, (b) using all available laws to prosecute select 
     criminal acts committed abroad, and (c) intensifying activities 
     of law enforcement, diplomatic and consular personnel abroad.

2.   Protect U.S. Borders by (a) enhancing our land border inspection,
     detection and monitoring capabilities, (b) improving the 
     effectiveness of maritime and air smuggling interdiction efforts, 
     (c) seeking new, stiffer criminal penalties for smuggling 
     activities, and (d) targeting enforcement and prosecutorial 
     resources more effectively against smuggling crimes and 
     organizations.

3.   Deny Safe Haven to International Criminals by (a) negotiating new
     international agreements to create a seamless web for the prompt
     location, arrest and extradition of international fugitives, 
     (b) implementing strengthened immigration laws that prevent 
     international criminals from entering the United States and 
     provide for their prompt expulsion when appropriate, and 
     (c) promoting increased cooperation with foreign law enforcement 
     authorities.

4.   Counter International Financial Crime by (a) combating money
     laundering and strengthening enforcement efforts to reduce inbound 
     and outbound movement of criminal proceeds, (b) seizing the assets 
     of international criminals, (c) enhancing bilateral and 
     multilateral cooperation against all financial crime, and 
     (d) targeting offshore centers of international fraud, 
     counterfeiting, electronic access device schemes and other 
     financial crimes.

5.   Prevent Criminal Exploitation of International Trade by (a)
     interdicting illegal technology exports, (b) preventing unfair and
     predatory trade practices in violation of U.S. criminal law, (c)
     protecting intellectual property rights, (d) countering industrial
     theft and economic espionage of U.S. trade secrets, and (e) 
     enforcing import restrictions on certain harmful substances, 
     dangerous organisms and protected species.

6.   Respond to Emerging International Crime Threats by (a) disrupting 
     new activities of international organized crime groups, 
     (b) enhancing intelligence efforts against criminal enterprises, 
     (c) reducing trafficking in human beings and crimes against 
     children, (d) increasing enforcement efforts against high tech 
     and computer-related crime, and (e) continuing to identify and 
     counter the vulnerabilities of critical infrastructures and new 
     technologies in high tech areas.

7.   Foster International Cooperation and the Rule of Law by 
     (a) establishing international standards, goals and objectives to 
     combat international crime and by actively encouraging compliance, 
     (b) improving bilateral cooperation with foreign governments and 
     law enforcement authorities, and (c) strengthening the rule of law 
     as the foundation for democratic government and free markets in 
     order to reduce societies' vulnerability to criminal exploitation.


8.   Optimize the Full Range of U.S. Efforts by (a) enhancing executive
     branch policy and operational coordination mechanisms to assess 
     the risks of criminal threats and to integrate strategies, goals 
     and objectives to combat those threats, (b) mobilizing and 
     incorporating the private sector into U.S. government efforts, and 
     (c) developing measures of effectiveness to assess progress over 
     time.

ICCS INITIATIVES

Highlighted below are ten Administration initiatives to further our 
efforts to fight international crime.

1.  International Crime Control Act of 1998:  Proposed legislation
containing significant new law enforcement tools for the fight against
international crime.

2.  Comprehensive Threat Assessment:  A comprehensive assessment of the
threat to the American people posed by international crime, to be 
completed within six months.

3.  International Conference on Upholding Integrity Among Justice and
Security Officials:  An international conference to address upholding
integrity among key justice and security officials worldwide, to be
organized by the Vice President within the next six months.

4.  High Tech Crime:  An action plan, building on the work of the G-8
justice and interior ministers and the creation of the U.S. National
Infrastructure Protection Center, to protect interconnected U.S.
communications and information systems from attack by international
criminals.

5.  Border Law Enforcement:  A program to enhance border law enforcement
through deployment of advanced detection technology and investment of 
new resources.

6.  Financial Crimes:  A commitment to employ aggressively new tools to
deny criminals access to U.S. financial institutions and to enhance
enforcement efforts against financial crimes.

7.  International Asset Forfeiture and Sharing:  A U.S. call for new
criminal asset forfeiture regimes worldwide and new asset forfeiture
sharing agreements with our international partners.

8.  OAS Treaty Against Illicit Trafficking in Firearms:  A program to 
work with our OAS partners to implement fully a hemispheric convention 
to combat the illicit manufacturing of and trafficking in firearms, 
ammunition and explosives.

9.  Economic Espionage and Theft of Industrial Property:  A commitment 
to use the Economic Espionage Act to increase U.S. investigations and
prosecutions of individuals and companies who attempt to steal U.S.
proprietary information.

10.  Strategic Communications Plan:  A plan to engage the private 
sector in assessing the impact of international crime on that sector 
and in determining its appropriate role in countering this threat.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 15:10:42 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Senate Intel Committee on Crypto
Message-ID: <199805132210.SAA30435@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


>From Senate Intelligence Committee Report 105-185, on intelligence 
funding for FY1999, May 7, 1998:

Encryption

    The Committee remains concerned about efforts to 
inappropriately ease or remove export restrictions on hardware 
and software encryption products. Export controls on encryption 
and other products serve a clearly defined purpose--to protect 
our nation's security. Therefore, the Committee believes that 
the effects on U.S. national security must be the paramount 
concern when considering any proposed change to encryption 
export policy, and will seek referral of any legislation 
regarding encryption export policy under its jurisdiction 
established under Senate Resolution 400.

    Export restrictions on encryption products assist the 
Intelligence Community in its signals intelligence mission. By 
collecting and analyzing signals intelligence, U.S. 
intelligence agencies seek to understand the policies, 
intentions, and plans of foreign state and nonstate actors. 
Signals intelligence plays an important role in the formation 
of American foreign and defense policy. It is also a 
significant factor in U.S. efforts to protect its citizens and 
soldiers against terrorism, the proliferation of weapons of 
mass destruction, narcotics trafficking, international crime 
and other threats to our nation's security.

    While the Committee recognizes the commercial interest in 
easing or removing export restrictions, it believes the safety 
of our citizens and soldiers should be the predominant concern 
when considering U.S. policy towards the export of any product. 
The Committee supports the continued control of encryption 
products, and believes that a comprehensive strategy on 
encryption export policy can and must be developed that 
addresses national security concerns as well as the promotion 
of American commercial interests abroad. The Committee looks 
forward to working with senior Administration officials in 
developing such a strategy.

-----

Full report: 

   http://jya.com/sr105-185.txt  (94K)




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: mgraffam@mhv.net
Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 15:20:41 -0700 (PDT)
To: cons0005@algnet.algonquinc.on.ca
Subject: Re: Email Bot
In-Reply-To: <199805132105.RAA10590@algnet.algonquinc.on.ca>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On Wed, 13 May 1998 cons0005@algnet.algonquinc.on.ca wrote:

> I was wondering if anyone knows of such a creature that I could send 
> email to with an URL, and I would get a reply of that HTML file?
> example I email   bot@somewhere.com with the 
> Subject:http://www.hotmail.com
> 
> and I will get an email of the HTML file at www.hotmail.com
> This would be handy because I don't have a broswer (2 meg RAM (I 
> know)) and also for anonymity, cookies etc I couldn't be traced.

Uhm.. this service used to exist.. I dont know what the email addy
was though :( 

Another solution is to find a school that has a publicly usable lynx
account. Lynx is a text-based browser for Unix, and is fully usable
from a telnet session. Lynx is a nice browser. I use it all the time
on my local machine in an xterm. Yeah, I could fire up netscape ..
but lynx is better. :)

Try telneting to:

sailor.lib.md.us       login: guest
trfn.clpgh.org         login: trfn 
bob.bob.bofh.org       login: supply your email address
public.sunsite.unc.edu login: lynx
lynx.cc.ukans.edu      login: lynx

Be nice to these machines. 

Michael J. Graffam (mgraffam@mhv.net)
http://www.mhv.net/~mgraffam -- Philosophy, Religion, Computers, Crypto, etc
"..the isle is full of noises, sounds and sweet airs that give delight and
hurt not. Sometimes a thousand twangling instruments will hum about mine
ears, and sometimes voices.." Caliban, Shakespeare's "The Tempest"

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JIpKx5ZDMn4IfEatfX1VWfNRdVjxAjn0cf1A0bx7ybB0XBjwP6DYR97Vy916ZVzj
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mixmaster 
Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 18:45:01 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199805140121.SAA02562@sirius.infonex.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


[cons0005@algnet.algonquinc.on.ca wrote:]

I was wondering if anyone knows of such a creature that I could send 
email to with an URL, and I would get a reply of that HTML file?
example I email   bot@somewhere.com with the 
Subject:http://www.hotmail.com

and I will get an email of the HTML file at www.hotmail.com
This would be handy because I don't have a broswer (2 meg RAM (I 
know)) and also for anonymity, cookies etc I couldn't be traced.

-----

Actually you can do that really very easily. If you are interested in 
such Bot's. I really recommend you get O'Reilly's book: Web Client 
Programming, with Perl. It discusses to a large degree what your wanting 
to do. It has full source code as well, so you can take that and just 
fiddle with a bit until it suits your needs. Provided you or someone you 
know can program in Perl. 

I think one method you could do is to just use a majordomo server and 
tinker with it to suit the reception needs. Or you could on your own 
box, or a friends box. Make an account to the name you want, set up a 
resident program, with nohup or a simple cron job. Or do some script, 
that would serve equally as well. That could handle the reception 
facilities well enough. Then just use the modified bot to handle the 
HTML queries and sending and there you go. 

Although sending things back to the HTTP server in question might... 
interesting. If that place GET and POST methods for CGI scripts and 
dynamic pages, that raises some questions. Particularly, if the bot 
sends you the HTML doc that it requested, you view the page, yadda yadda 
yadda. It depends on how you want to work it and do it, you have to ask 
yourself. Do I want to send my request (whatever that maybe)from my 
machine? The request would go through. But it would be through your 
machine, and that would invalidate your anonymity. So thats a Bad 
Thing(tm) and out of the question. Or in cases like yours, the user 
might not have a browser. So that leaves it to us sending our request 
back to our automated little daemon and it does it for us. It would 
require just a little bit of handling and work to do the GET and POST 
methods for the CGI program your interacting with, but that would be 
minimal I think. I could be wrong however. In effect your using the bot 
as a kind of proxy for HTTP requests. 

If your really, REALLY desperate I might be able to quickly just put 
something together for you and post it here for you(or if another 
cypherpunk thats into Perl wants to do it, or if anyone else has any 
ideas). But you should be able to modify the code to suit whatever you 
want it to do. I've been experimenting with something similar, only on a 
slightly different note. If your patient, you can just subscribe to a 
majordomo "admin-help" list. Where the details of running such a thing 
are discussed by people that do. I'm sure one quite possibly exists 
somewhere. Then log on to a Bot mailing list and after hanging out on 
both for a while, asking a few questions perhaps you should be able to 
put something together I expect.

Or as mgraffam@mhv.net suggests you could log into those machines and do 
it that way. Which gives me another idea, you could have the bot run 
lynx remotely and then pipe the output from that to the letter it would 
send you and visa versa. But that makes things more complicated as well 
too. I question the value of doing that as well, I think the overhead 
would be a bit much, as well as being a slight hassle. I think over all, 
the easiest thing to do would be to possibly follow mgraffam's 
suggestion and just do that. Those are my thoughts on things at least. I 
hope they help.

I think the security possibilities of such a bot could be useful and 
could make a interesting discussion perhaps. There was one thread 
earlier that was discussing one such robot. From a government location, 
that was keeping tabs on crypto related sources. Crawling from link to 
link, from behind a firewall etc, etc, etc. If theres any more news 
relating to that thread, thats been uncovered I'd be interested in 
hearing more on it. 



______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: whitelaw@ndirect.co.uk
Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 10:20:42 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Encryption trends and legal issues
Message-ID: <3559D6C3.DF4EBD3@ndirect.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I am looking for information on the legal and export issues on
encryption around the world and the current use of different encryption
algorithms today.

If anyone can send me some information or point me to the appropriate
sites I would be most grateful.


Thanks,

Gavin.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Mark Rosen" 
Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 15:46:22 -0700 (PDT)
To: "Stephen Zander" 
Subject: Re: Chaffing and winnowing
Message-ID: <01bd7ebe$f2941940$014ce9c7@markdsk.peganet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


>    Mark> ...  g. Data authentication equipment that calculates a
>    Mark> Message Authentication Code (MAC) or similar result to
>    Mark> ensure no alteration of text has taken place, or to
>    Mark> authenticate users, but does not allow for encryption of
>    Mark> data, text or other media other than that needed for the
>    Mark> authentication;
>
>But wasn't that the gist of Rivest's paper: he's not encrypting the
>message, he's just obscuring it really, really well.
>
>All this needs someone with the cash & the time to push it to court...
>
    Actually, the first parts I quoted applied to chaffing and winnowing
too:

a. Designed or modified to use ``cryptography'' employing digital techniques
to ensure ``information security'';
b. Designed or modified to perform cryptanalytic functions;
c. Designed or modified to use ``cryptography'' employing analog techniques
to ensure ``information security'';

    Part a. basically prevents any sort of "encryption" technique, whether
that technique uses a normal encryption algorithm, a hash function, or
quantum cryptography -- anything that can be used for "information security"
    I think that the NSA knew about chaffing and winnowing, and they talked
with the people who wrote the EAR and helped them make the legislation cover
chaffing and winnowing.
    Please know that I, in no way, like the EAR; it just seems that
everyone's hopes that chaffing and winnowing gets around the export controls
are invalid. The EAR doesn't care *how* you do the encryption, it only cares
that some sort of "encryption" was performed.
    Are there any legal-types out there that can give a more definitive
answer?

- Mark Rosen
http://www.mach5.com/






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSqncrs 
Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 18:06:39 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Abusive crossposting by anonymous remailer user (Was: Gary Lee Burnore is
Message-ID: <4b0c119a.355a436e@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


In a message dated 5/13/98 7:46:13 PM Central Daylight Time,
gburnore@netcom.com writes:

<< and he couldn't possibly know who you are.  >>

It is my humble opinion, that nobody's cover has been blown, he fucked up.  He
cross-posted the same exact piece of spam (as some would say) to both me
anonomosly, and to the list roughly at the same time.

Stan Rosenthal




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 12:43:04 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Abusive crossposting by anonymous remailer user (Was: Gary Lee Burnore is a Convicted Sex Offender in Raleigh, NC)
In-Reply-To: <199805101850.LAA00114@sirius.infonex.com>
Message-ID: <199805131942.VAA17993@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Steve Crisp  > The thread you're whining about involved Steve Crisp 
> > threatening an anonymous poster with "beating the living fuck out of you"
> > if his/her identity could be determined...
>  
> And it still stands. Come out of hiding and see if you survive the
> night.
>  
> Steve Crisp

Does anyone question the need for the ability to post anonymously with
censorious bullies like him running loose?  Him and Belinda Bryan
 threatening to "make life a living hell" for anyone
who dares to criticize her anonymously, that is.

Someone posts something he didn't like and he threatened that person with
bodily harm.  I criticize him anonymously for making that threat, and now
he threatens me, too.  That sure makes PagePlanet sound like a company I'd
like to do business with:

   PagePlanet (PAGEPLANET-DOM)
   3252 Octavia Street
   Raleigh, NC 27606
   US

   Domain Name: PAGEPLANET.COM

   Administrative Contact:
      Crisp, Steve  (SC2795)  crisp@PAGEPLANET.COM
      919-852-5262 (FAX) 919-233-0816
   Technical Contact, Zone Contact:
      Sullivan, Mikey  (MS5652)  mikey@PAGEPLANET.COM
      919-852-5262 (FAX) 919-852-5261
   Billing Contact:
      Crisp, Valerie  (VC370)  valerie@PAGEPLANET.COM
      919-233-6602 (FAX) 919-852-5261

   Record last updated on 10-Feb-98.
   Record created on 25-Nov-96.
   Database last updated on 13-May-98 03:50:14 EDT.

   Domain servers in listed order:

   DNS.PAGEPLANET.COM		205.152.36.2
   DNS2.PAGEPLANET.COM		205.152.36.3
   DNS3.PAGEPLANET.COM		208.194.157.172






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Toto 
Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 23:27:57 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: [On Topic]
In-Reply-To: <199805122218.SAA26006@josh1.weboneinc.com>
Message-ID: <355A6D62.29C4@sk.sympatico.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Josh Schoof wrote:
> 
> FROM: aj@gaymen.com
> SUBJECT: Gay Site
> 
>         I just wanted to let you know that GayTV And GayMen.Com have
>         webmaster referral programs that pay you  for every person
>         that signs-up for either site.

Dimitri? Is that you, Dimitri...?






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: R2wjEAy94@msn.com
Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 22:28:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Are you curious about WHERE your family roots originate?
Message-ID: <199805140527.OAA04410@ns.joy.or.jp>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Discover Your Family History - Rated "Cool Site of the Week"

                Come visit our website at,
http://207.93.198.221/culture2.htm
(if the above link is busy please use...)
http://209.67.53.232/culture2.htm

        Do you know WHO your ancestors are and WHAT they did?
        Do you know WHEN your surname first appeared?
        Are you curious about WHERE your family roots originate?

Now you can fill in the missing pieces of this puzzle.  Join the satisfied multitudes who have discovered their complete Family Surname History.

All Nationalities. It's easy. Just key your last name into our online index, and in seconds we will tell you it's origin and much MORE.  See if we've researched your complete family name history during our 25 years of professional research.

Read a sample history, plus - FREE Coat of Arms keychain with your family's most ancient coat of arms & crest. All in full color. Your family name history parchment is 11 x 17", approximately 1700 words. It is beautifully ILLUMINATED by your most ancient Coat of Arms in full authentic Heraldic Colors.  Over 500 URLs on family and heraldic history.

Please come visit our website at,
http://207.93.198.221/culture2.htm
(if the above link is busy please use...)
http://209.67.53.232/culture2.htm

Hall of Names International Inc.
1-888-My-Roots  (1-888-697-6687)


For questions regarding our service, use the contact information in this letter. The return email address does not respond to incoming email. If you are not interested in this offer,  you can be removed from our mailing list by sending an email to: p-jerry@usa.net    Simply send it and your email address  will be automatically removed from our mailing list.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: WEBMASTER@successads.com
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 21:05:53 -0700 (PDT)
To: 2friend@juno.com
Subject: MASTER MARKETER RESOURCE CD....
Message-ID: <199805150305.FAA04154@netsurf-pe.peine.netsurf.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hello Fellow Marketer,

We have everything you need to promote your online
business and target your advertising!!

The "Master Marketers Resource CD."

This CD has over 20 Million categorized, targeted and
general email addresses! Targeted email addresses are 
by far the most expensive... but for a limited time, we 
are including them on the Master Marketers Resource CD.

Do not be mistaken... this offer is not like any other
you have ever received. We have seen randomly gathered
email address CD's selling for as much as $249.00 
Just one I received today was offering 15 million AOL 
addresses for $189.95!! They were not targeted, categorized,
or nothing! Just 15 million AOL addresses of who knows what.

We also have AOL addresses on the Master Marketers
Resource CD; 4,000,000... We also have addresses of
Business Opportunity Seekers; 1,000,000... Adult Web Site 
Subscribers; 135,000 (we sell this list alone for $250.00 - 
but it is included on this Resource CD). 

Investor oriented addresses; 300,000... E-Mail addresses 
sorted by city; 200,000... General consumer lists; 290,000 
Email addresses of those interested in Health; 230,000... 
and over 150,000 Food Enthusiasts!! Make no mistake!!... 
this is by far the best collection of email addresses available 
anywhere. 

In all... there are 11 categories (over 2,500,000 of targeted 
email addresses) and over 20,000,000 addresses from the top
three internet/online providers. We have also included a 
remove/undeliverable list that's over 100 meg in size!! We 
have already cleaned the addresses on the Master Marketer 
Resource CD using this massive remove file... they are ready to
mail right now.


As A Special Bonus...

In addition to the email addresses... we have also included
on the CD over 30 CGI Scripts (one will hide where your
mail is being sent to on your order forms - must have for 
taking orders). There are forum scripts, chat scripts and
just about any other cgi script you will ever need.

We have also included over 50 java scripts! Many are
scripts for adding rotating banners to your site, adding
scrolling ticker and marque messages and scripts that password
protect a page on your web site.

We have also included demos of over 15 of the top bulk
email programs on the Internet. Stealth, Rapid Fire, NetContact
and many more! We have also included demo's of email address
harvesters like Hurricane, Grabber and Atomic Harvestor that
let you extract fresh email addresses out of forums and
right out of web pages. 

There is much more on the CD than we can go into on a short
letter like this one (there is over 10 html editors, over
200 marketing reports and more). In all... in addition to
the bulk email and html editors... there is over 20 of the
top software programs on the Internet. From programs that
keep you connected to the Internet... to programs that let
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If you are ready to target your advertising... you can order
the Master Marketers Resource CD by completing the form
below. Don't miss out... we are only selling a limited number
of the Master Marketer Resource CD's. In order to preserve the
responsiveness of the addresses, this offer may be withdrawn 
at anytime.

------------------------------------------------------------
Please note: Most of the software on the CD is shareware. If
you like it... buy it. We have included the programs because
we feel most are pertinent to Internet marketing.
-----------------------------------------------------------


"You can buy from the REST or you can buy from the BEST."   Your choice. 


>>> NOW ONLY $199.00!   

This price is effective for the next seven days, thereafter the price will be $249.00 so ORDER NOW!

To order our email package, simply print out the EZ ORDER FORM 
below and fax or mail it to our office today.

We accept Visa, Mastercard, Discover, Amex and  Checks by Fax and Mail.

_________________
EZ Order Form 
 

_____Yes! I would like to order the Master Marketers Resource CD
     Email addresses and much, much more for only $199.00.
 

*Please select one of the following for shipping..

____I would like to receive my package OVERNIGHT. I'm including 
$15 for shipping. (outside US add an additional $25 for shipping)

____I would like to receive my package 2 DAY delivery. I'm including 
$10 for shipping.  (outside US add an additional $25 for shipping)


DATE_____________________________________________________

NAME____________________________________________________

COMPANY NAME___________________________________________

ADDRESS_________________________________________________

CITY, STATE, ZIP___________________________________________

PHONE NUMBERS__________________________________________

FAX NUMBERS_____________________________________________

EMAIL ADDRESS___________________________________________



TYPE OF CREDIT CARD: 

______VISA _____MASTERCARD ______AMEX______DISC

CREDIT CARD# __________________________________________

EXPIRATION DATE________________________________________

NAME ON CARD___________________________________________

AMOUNT $____________________
 

(Required) SIGNATURE:x________________________

DATE:x__________________


You may fax your order to us at:   1-704-784-5595

CHECK BY FAX SERVICES!

If you would like to fax a check, paste your check below and fax it to 
our office along with all forms to: 1-704-784-5595

******************************************************

***24 HOUR FAX SERVICES*** PLEASE PASTE YOUR 

CHECK HERE AND FAX IT TO US AT 1-704-784-5595


*******************************************************

If You fax a check, there is no need for you to send the original check. We will draft up a new check, with the exact information from your original check. All checks will be held for bank clearance.

If you feel more comfortable sending payment through the mail, 
please send all forms and Check or Money Order to:

CONSUMER CONNECTIONS
10223-B UNIV. CITY BLVD. #197 
CHARLOTTE, NC  28213







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Tim C. May" 
Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 23:28:05 -0700 (PDT)
To: StanSqncrs 
Subject: Re: "... would cause us to look at this person as a threat"
In-Reply-To: <23d07d72.3558d3d9@aol.com>
Message-ID: <355A796B.5741@got.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


StanSqncrs wrote:
> >  > Subject: Cults and Government?
> >  >
> >  > "Just ran across this quote from AG Janet Reno. From a person of such
> >  > high power, these are scary words. --------- "
> 
> 
> 
> >  > "-Attorney General Janet Reno, Interview on 60 Minutes, June 26,
> >  > 1994"

> Bad beginning, Sir Will.  The willingness to pass along material of dubious
> authenticity is not a good sign in my book. As Mr. Natural would say, "Check
> your source."  So, what *IS* your source?

This qualifies as an Official News Story Quote under the guidelines 
released by 'True Lies On The InterNet Coommiittee' which was formed
on Oct. 3, 1954.
To meet these guidelines, a quote must:
1. Be attributed to a species with the capacity for speech.
2. Be consistent with something 'everyone knows' the one quoted 'could 
have said'.
3. Be an attempt at misinformation which does not exceed the magnitude
of the average MainStream Press 'lean' on the Truth (TM).
4. Provide a means for those reading the quote to check the veracity
of the source and/or the accurateness of the quote, regardless of
whether or not the message headers are forged.
5. Not be from a 'cocksucker'.

If you check the CypherPunks archives, you will find that a Great
American and True CypherPunk with a humungous schlong once sent a
post to the list, titled, "Forgeries are your Friend."
Think about it...

"The tree of tyranny must be watered periodically with the piss of citizens...."
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Proctologist       | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: rzz@rzz.sigov.si
Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 08:25:06 -0700 (PDT)
To: rzz@rzz.sigov.si
Subject: JUST RELEASED!  10 Million!!!
Message-ID: <011297055501222@g_fantasm.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



IT WAS JUST RELEASED!!
 
INTRODUCING...MILLIONS VOL. 1A

We took a total of over 92 million email addresses from many of the
touted CD's that are out there (bought them all - some were $300+)!
We added the millions we had in storage to those.   When we
combined them all, we had in excess of 100+ million addresses
in one huge file.

We then ran a super "sort/de-dupe" program against this huge list.
It cut the file down to less than 25 million!!! Can you believe that? It
seems that most people that are selling CD's are duping the public
by putting numerous files of addresses in the CD over and over. This
created many duplicate addresses. They also had many program
 "generated" email addresses like Compuserve, MCI, ANON's, etc.
This causes a tremendous amount of undeliverables, and for  those
that use Stealth programs, clogs up servers quickly with trash, etc.

We then ran a program that contained 1800+ keywords to remove
addresses with vulgarity,  profanity, sex-related names, postmaster,
 webmaster, flamer, abuse, spam, etc., etc.   Also eliminated all .edu,
.mil, .org, .gov, etc.   After that list was run against the remaining list,
it  reduced it down to near 10 million addresses!

So, you see, our list will save people hundreds of dollars buying all
others that are out there on  CD and otherwise. Using ours will be like
 using the 100+ million that we started with, but a lot less money and
alot less time!!

We also purchased Cyber-Promos ($995.00) CD.  We received it just
prior to finishing production work on the new CD.  We had our people
take a random sample of 300,000 addresses  from the touted 2.9 that
they advertised.   We used a program that allows us to take a random
sample of addresses from any list.  We were able to have the program
take every 9th address, thus giving us a 300,000 list of Cyber's email
addresses from top to bottom.  We cleaned these, and came up with about
100,000 addresses. These are also mixed in.

We also included a 6+ million "Remove/Flamer" file broke into seperate
files for ease of  extracting and adding to your own database of removes.

 "You can buy from the REST or you can buy from the BEST.   Your choice.
_____________________________

What others are saying:
 
"I received the CD on Friday evening.   Like a kid with a new toy, I
immediately started bulking out using the new email addresses.  Over
the course of the weekend, I emailed out over 500,000 emails and I
received less than TWENTY undeliverables!!  I am totally satisfied
with my purchase!!  Thanks Premier!!"

Dave Buckley
Houston,  TX

"This list is worth it's weight in gold!!  I sent out 100,000 emails for my
product and received over 55 orders!

Ann Colby
New Orleans, LA

****************************************
 
                  HERE'S THE BOTTOM LINE

Here is what you get when you order today!

>> 10 Million Email Addresses... 1 per line in simple text format on a CD.
Files are in lots of 5,000 (no codes needed to open files).
All files are separated by domain name for your convenience.
 
PLUS you receive a tremendous REMOVE list!
6 Million+ 

>>> NOW ONLY $150.00!

This price is effective for the next seven days, thereafter the price will be
$199.00 so ORDER NOW!

All lists are completely free of any Duplicates. We also on a continual
basis, add New Names and Remove Undeliverables and Remove
Requests.
 
The result is the Cleanest Email Addresses Available Anywhere
to use over and over again, for a FRACTION of the cost that other
companies charge. Typical rates for acquiring email lists are from
1 cent to as high as 3 cents per email address - that's
"INFORMATION HIGHWAY" ROBBERY!.


***ADDED BONUS***
All our customers will have access to our updates on the CD volume
they purchase.  That's right, we continually work on our CD.  Who 
knows when those other CDs were made. We're constantly adding 
and deleting addresses, removes. Etc.  It all comes back to quality.  
No one else offers that! 

Don't even hesitate on this one or you will miss out on the most
effective way to market anywhere...PERIOD!

If you have any further questions or to place an order by
phone, please do not hesitate to call us at:

                              908-245-1143

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: gburnore@netcom.com (Gary L. Burnore)
Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 17:02:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Abusive crossposting by anonymous remailer user (Was: Gary Lee Burnore is a Convicted Sex Offender in Raleigh, NC)
In-Reply-To: <3555FA78.7795@pageplanet.com>
Message-ID: <35613238.439321674@206.214.99.10>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Wed, 13 May 1998 15:11:11 +0200 (MET DST), in article
<199805131311.PAA05504@basement.replay.com>, nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
wrote:

:eridani@databasix.com (Belinda Bryan) wrote:
:
:> And there we have it, folks.  The anonymous stalker who's spent the past
:> year following Gary Burnore around Usenet found a post in
:> triangle.general that mentioned him, added a propaganda-filled follow up
:> to it, and posted it to 9 newsgroups--many of whom have repeatedly
:> requested that this crap be kept out of said groups.
:
:"Anonymous stalker"?  For merely posting a reply to a public post on
:Usenet?  What state or country has a statute against that, and what makes
:you think the poster falls under its jurisdiction if it does exist?  As for
:whether a certain post is "propaganda", that is for the reader to decide,
:especially when of the content is independently verifiable.  The
:"propaganda" you refer to was apparently intended to refute the fallacious
:assertion that since Gary Lee Burnore's entry in the North Carolina
:official database of registered sex offenders had apparently been removed,
:then the underlying crime for which he was convicted and required to
:register somehow automagically never happened.  To make such an assertion
:is to invite rebuttal.

Only for someone as obsessed in this as you.  Everyone else I've seen post
except those who have a grudge directly against me has said something similar
to "who gives a fuck?"  Your obsession continues.


:
:The thread you're whining about involved Steve Crisp 
:threatening an anonymous poster with "beating the living fuck out of you"
:if his/her identity could be determined, a second anonymous poster
:challenging the propriety of such a threat, and yet another DataBasix
:groupie, William McClatchie , calling the second
:anonymous poster a "remailer abuser" for daring to make such a challenge.
:So rather than denouncing the threat itself, you choose to call the person
:challenging it an "anonymous stalker"?  If you feel no need to "hide"
:anything, please feel free to post your street address and home phone
:number.  But I imagine that many people with small children would not want
:their names, from which their street address can be derived by someone with
:the resources available to you and Gary Burnore, to fall into the hands of
:a convicted child molester with a history of abusive retaliation.


Geesh you ignorant fuck. It's been posted more times than I can count.  You
don't remember posting it right? Oh wait, that was someone else who's obsessed
with me right?  Uh huh.  The same way you posted Steve's info you posted mine.

:
:Being threatened with physical violence for making an unpopular post is
:one of the best arguments available as to why anonymity is necessary when
:people like Steve Crisp and convicted child molester Gary Lee Burnore are
:running around loose making those threats.

If people like you weren't allowed to abuse remailers, people like chris
wouldn't make comments that he knows are not threats to draw you out.  You buy
it hook line and sinker.   You must certianly know that he's not threatning
anyone since you're posting anonymously and he couldn't possibly know who you
are.  But obsessed as you are you can't take it.  

:
:> Oh and lookee what else:  it was mailed to cypherpunks@toad.com,
:> presumably for archival on the cypherpunks mailing list, where it will
:> be picked up by WWW search engines.  Since those folks don't seem to
:> mind having their archives used in personal grudge matches, I'll just
:> start cc'ing my responses there as well.  I'm sure, as champions of free
:> speech, they can understand the necessity of making sure both sides of
:> the story get equal time.
: 
:This, of course, comes from the same Belinda Bryan who impersonated a
:lawyer for DataBasix to demand the disclosure of (fortunately non-existant)
:user logs from the Huge Cajones remailer in a failed Scientology-esque
:attempt to embarass its users.


More lies from the obsessed one as Belinda NEVER impersonated a lawyer for
anyone.  Beating dead horses is your specialty isn't it?

:  And that attack, BTW, started because Gary
:Burnore was pissed that an anonymous whistle blower used a remailer to tip
:of his victim's mother to the molestation.  As is typical of his style,
:Burnore denounced that legitimate use of anonymity as "harassment" and
:"abuse".  


More unproven lies.  If you, the anonymous asshole were really interested in
the truth (rather than your obsession with me) you'd get the court documents
and see that the dates do not support your libelous statements.  Libelous
statements are the best argument for remailers.  If you need to make a
libelous statement, do it from a remailer.  Nothing will happen to you. (Other
than folks will begin to ignore the remailer)


:
:It was also Burnore who chose to make PUBLIC what had previously been a
:private e-mail, thus inviting his critics to factually evaluate the claims.
:One of them apparently did so and discovered Gary Burnore's name and mug
:shot were published on an official PUBLIC website of registered sex
:offenders maintained by the state of North Carolina where Burnore moved
:after leaving San Francisco. 

More lies from the anonymous asshole.  It's not been that long since this
started that people don't remember how and why it was posted to USENet.  It
had nothing to do with an email.

: Perhaps he should have learned a lesson from
:Gary Hart and not have taunted the wrong people to find evidence of his
:wrongdoing.

Perhaps I should continue to improve my tracing skills and find you one day.

:
:Will the continual harangue against privacy and anonymity by Gary Lee
:Burnore, Belinda Bryan, Billy McClatchie, and other staffers and sock
:puppets of the DataBasix wrecking crew never end?


Translation:  If Gary Burnore and Belinda Bryan and Bill McClatchie leave the
internet, the anonymous asshole will stop lying.
:
:BTW, Belinda, cross-posting your whining drivel in the fashion you're
:threatening negates your lame attempts to achieve deniability by using the
:infamous X-No-Archive header that has become the trademark of DataBasix'
:denizens. 

You've never given a valid reason why someone should or should not use an
X-No-Archive header.  You hide behind a remailer and libel and then complain
when someone X-No-Archives.  Typical hypocritical thinking.

: IOW, you won't be able to retroactively claim that an
:embarassing post from you was "forged" because it's not archived at an
:unbiased, third party site.  Can you say "oops"?

Well we'll see about unbiased sites now won't we? 


-- 
        for i in databasix netcom primenet ; do ; gburnore@$i ; done
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  How you look depends on where you go.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gary L. Burnore                       |  ÝŰłşÝłŢłşÝłłÝۺݳ޳şÝłÝłŢłşÝłÝÝŰł
                                      |  ÝŰłşÝłŢłşÝłłÝۺݳ޳şÝłÝłŢłşÝłÝÝŰł
DOH!                                  |  ÝŰłşÝłŢłşÝłłÝۺݳ޳şÝłÝłŢłşÝłÝÝŰł
                                      |  ÝŰł 3 4 1 4 2  ݳ޳ 6 9 0 6 9 ÝŰł
spamgard(tm):  zamboni                |     Official Proof of Purchase
===========================================================================
             PGPprint: C63B CF4E 1B71 4D7E C6F8 AF4E 338D 5CB4
    KeyID: 0x0F7EDBD9 (RSA)     finger gburnore@netcom.com for public key
---------------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 17:34:46 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <9083523aabe2496a001be5b119c0dd35@base.xs4all.nl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I was looking at my RAM when I noticed several passwords I have 
frequently used were still there, and as I never turn off my comp, I 
was wondering if there is a way you can "clean" your RAM?
I also got errors when installing LILO on my DOS partition, so now I 
*CAN'T* boot without a bootdisk, and I think LILO sticks itself on 
the master boot record, is there an MBR editor?
Where can I get a list of Candian Remailers?
Is there a DOS and/or Winbloze 3.* Email program that I can "forge" 
headers? (ex: Like in Linux fastmail adding: -f billc@whitehouse.gov)
thnx.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: alt1@snowhill.com (Al Thompson)
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 00:41:31 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re:
Message-ID: <199805140741.CAA16138@frost.snowhill.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 02:35 AM 5/14/98 +0200, Anonymous wrote:
>I was looking at my RAM when I noticed several passwords I have 
>frequently used were still there, and as I never turn off my comp, I 
>was wondering if there is a way you can "clean" your RAM?
>I also got errors when installing LILO on my DOS partition, so now I 
>*CAN'T* boot without a bootdisk, and I think LILO sticks itself on 
  
Use LOADLIN instead.  It's much nicer, and a LOT faster than LILO, and
doesn't require a boot floppy.
 
I would have replied only to you, except for the fact that you posted
anonymously.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSqncrs 
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 01:14:09 -0700 (PDT)
To: tcmay@got.net
Subject: Re:A 'Nobody' Out From 'Obscura'
Message-ID: <1cbf5f47.355aa786@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


In a message dated 5/14/98 1:28:03 AM Central Daylight Time, tcmay@got.net
writes:

<< > Bad beginning, Sir Will.  The willingness to pass along material of
dubious
 > authenticity is not a good sign in my book. As Mr. Natural would say,
"Check
 > your source."  So, what *IS* your source?
 
 This qualifies as an Official News Story Quote under the guidelines 
 released by 'True Lies On The InterNet Coommiittee' which was formed
 on Oct. 3, 1954. >>

Maybe so, but does something 4 years old qualify as "news"?  Only to a
victim(/perpertrator) of a anti-reality campaign.

Stan




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Dave Banisar 
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 05:17:36 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: 1998 EPIC Crypto Conference - Last week for Reduced Registration
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




   Top Government Officials, Industry Leaders, Cryptography Experts
      and Public Interest Advocates to Discuss Encryption Policy

                 *** Last week for Early Registration ***

                     *** CLE Credit Application Filed ***

                             Washington, DC
                          Monday, June 8, 1998

                  http://www.epic.org/events/crypto98/

Top government officials -- including Senator John Ashcroft (R-MO),
William Reinsch (Undersecretary of Commerce for Export Administration)
and Robert Litt (Principal Associate Attorney General) -- will discuss
current U.S. encryption policy at the largest policy conference on
cryptography ever held in Washington, D.C.  Other leading experts from
government, industry, the public interest community and academia will
also debate important legal, political and technical issues. If you are
interested in cryptography policy, this is the one meeting you must
attend!

The 1998 EPIC Cryptography and Privacy Conference is organized by the
Electronic Privacy Information Center, in cooperation with the Harvard
University Information Infrastructure Project and the Technology
Policy Research Group of the London School of Economics.


- THE 1998 EPIC CRYPTOGRAPHY AND PRIVACY CONFERENCE -

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     and privacy.

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   o Top U.S. government officials will debate top industry
     representatives on current U.S. policy on domestic restrictions,
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   o A panel of senior government officials from France, England,
     Canada, Germany and the European Union will describe encryption
     policies in their countries and future trends.

   o Leading cryptographers and technical experts will discuss the
     dangers and benefits of key escrow and key recovery systems and
     other important technical issues.

   o Attorneys representing the plaintiffs and the U.S. Government in
     the pending legal challenges to the constitutionality of export
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     http://www.epic.org/events/crypto98/

-------
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Electronic Privacy Information Center           *    202-547-5482 (fax)
666 Pennsylvania Ave, SE, Suite 301             *    HTTP://www.epic.org
Washington, DC 20003 * PGP Key  http://www.epic.org/staff/banisar/key.html







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 23:31:59 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: NoT
Message-ID: <199805140631.IAA04681@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Fly Windows NT:
All the passengers carry their seats out onto the tarmac, placing the 
chairs
in the outline of a plane. They all sit down, flap their arms and make 
jet
swooshing sounds as if they are flying.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 09:07:25 -0700 (PDT)
To: StanSqncrs 
Subject: Re:A 'Nobody' Out From 'Obscura'
In-Reply-To: <1cbf5f47.355aa786@aol.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 1:12 AM -0700 5/14/98, StanSqncrs wrote:
>In a message dated 5/14/98 1:28:03 AM Central Daylight Time, tcmay@got.net
>writes:
>
><< > Bad beginning, Sir Will.  The willingness to pass along material of
>dubious
> > authenticity is not a good sign in my book. As Mr. Natural would say,
>"Check
> > your source."  So, what *IS* your source?
>
> This qualifies as an Official News Story Quote under the guidelines
> released by 'True Lies On The InterNet Coommiittee' which was formed
> on Oct. 3, 1954. >>

Stan ("and the Sequencers") quotes me as saying things I never said.


--Tim May

"The tree of liberty must be watered periodically with the blood of
tyrants...."
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist              | black markets, collapse of governments.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill.stewart@pobox.com
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 10:08:21 -0700 (PDT)
To: Mark Tillotson 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980514092316.008c21f0@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


[Is this still appropriate for coderpunks?]

At 01:07 PM 5/14/98 +0100, Mark Tillotson wrote:
>However I view the process rather differently.  There are two channels
>- the message is carried in the MAC and in the plaintext bits.
>Chaffing simply serves to obliterate the plaintext channel.  The

But it _doesn't_ obliterate the plaintext channel;
it just obfuscates it a lot.

>recipient doesn't need to get the plaintext bits at all - they can
>simply try the MAC against both 0 and 1, and choose the correct one.
>(although this doubles the workload)

Depending on how sequence numbers are managed, it doesn't 
need to double it - if you try the MAC for 0, it either
succeeds or fails, and in either case you don't need to 
check the MAC for 1.  If you're using a shorter MAC which
might have collisions (e.g. 8 bits of a real MAC), you need to
check both, since both 0 and 1 could pass, trashing the bit,
and if you're using the "First different bit in MAC(0) and MAC(1)"
technique you obviously need to calculate both.

>Furthermore an "attacker" can't tell, without breaking the MAC scheme,
>whether the plaintext is genuine or a blind, and so this makes
>chaffing/winnowing an ideal carrier of steganography.  It's like
>sending a plaintext file and a ciphertext file together, with an
>assertion that they correspond - unless you can prove this assertion
>how can an outsider be convinced you are not hiding information in the
>ciphertext file?  How can you prove this assertion without giving away
>your MAC key?  How can you demonstrate you are using a MAC and not
>simply triple-DES?

It's easy to demonstrate that the wheat channel is using real MACs -
if you're hauled into court for some violation or lawsuit,
you can probably be ordered to deliver the key (if you kept it),
since it's "not" being used to keep the message secret,
"only" to authenticate it.  

For the chaffing techniques that can use random chaff, though, 
you really can't prove that the "random" numbers are random 
as opposed to stegotext without giving up the stegotext
unless they're generated by a pseudo-random algorithm
which uses a key you can reproduce (as opposed to a 
session key from /dev/random.)

Will the real use of chaffing/winnowing be to send
uninteresting cover traffic and carry stegotext as chaff?
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 144tt4 <144tt4@msn.com>
Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 18:48:47 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <19943672.886214@relay.comanche.denmark.eu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Authenticated sender is <144tt4@msn.com>
Subject:  1 44 t
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 09:12:57 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Public Key Royalties
Message-ID: <199805141609.MAA22580@camel8.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


In a recent GAO report on governmental funding of university research
there is this note:

   In fiscal year 1996, the commercialization of the public key encryption 
   method, which was developed under grants from the Navy and NSF, 
   resulted in $271,875 in royalties to MIT.

Does this refer to RSA or PGP? Did the Navy underwrite RSA's PK work?
If so does the USG have a secret stake in PGP, Network Associates
and RSA?

More: did the Navy guide PK researchers based on the secret UK PK work 
before Diffie-Hellman?

The full report:

   http://jya.com/rced-98-126.txt  (184K)






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSqncrs 
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 11:50:12 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: A 'Nobody' Out From 'Obscura'
In-Reply-To: <41a646f.355b28e4@aol.com>
Message-ID: <355B3D07.605D@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


StanSqncrs wrote:
> In a message dated 5/14/98 11:07:23 AM Central Daylight Time, tcmay@got.net
> writes:

>>  Stan ("and the Sequencers") quotes me as saying things I never said. >>

> Look, nobody (IMHO), I quoted another FreeGroupie.  Then I quoted YOU involved
> in a 'red-herring' (unless someone forged your address) - "This qualifies as
> an Official News Story Quote under the guidelines released by 'True Lies On
> The InterNet Coommiittee' which was formed on Oct. 3, 1954."
> 
> Keep it up, Tim.

Boy, do I feel like an idiot!!!

I got my head out of my ass and checked out the headers on some
of the messages coming from the list and discovered that many
of them, including the one I am referring to above, are forgeries
by Ulf Moller (who has those two 'eyes' over the 'o' in his name,
just like the eye in the pyramid on the US dollar-bill, which 
means he must be a Bavarian Illuminati shill).

Received: (from cpunks@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id UAA02347 for 
cypherpunks@algebra.com; Wed, 13 May 1998 20:33:59 -0500
Received: from public.uni-hamburg.de (public.uni-hamburg.de [134.100.41.1]) by 
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; Wed, 13 May 1998 20:33:32 -0500
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[134.100.45.145])
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Message-Id: 
Date: Thu, 14 May 98 03:15 +0200
From: ulf@fitug.de (Ulf =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=F6ller?=)
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com, mix-l@jpunix.com
Subject: Re: "... would cause us to look at this person as a threat"


I would like to apologize to Tim, and to all of the other
cypherpunks that I have offended by my stupid, ignorant posts
and attitude on the list.
I'm not really a CypherPunk. I don't even suck cock!
(OK, I sucked my brother's cock a little, when I was younger,
 but that was just 'experimentation', OK? By the time I was
 nine, I had started fucking my little sister, so that *proves*
 I'm straight, eh?)

Anyway, I don't think we should put up with this shit from Ulf
(DoubleEye Illuminati) Moller. Let's all spam him.

Stan Guildenstern
http://A(h)OL(e).commie/Boy_Am_I_Stupid!!!.html





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mark Tillotson 
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 05:08:33 -0700 (PDT)
To: gibreel@pobox.com
Subject: Re: Chaffing and winnowing
In-Reply-To: <874syut9ld.fsf@wsuse5.mckesson.com>
Message-ID: <199805141207.NAA00226@spike.long.harlequin.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Stephen Zander  wrote:
| 
| But wasn't that the gist of Rivest's paper: he's not encrypting the
| message, he's just obscuring it really, really well.

His point is that the message packets start out readable, and then by
adding other packets (not altering the originals) you gain security,
whether intentional or not - apparently encryption is performed by
accident and without a key.

So he argues that since this technique transforms a cleartext stream
to a secure one without use of any cryptographic technique or
algorithm, no act of encryption has happened.

However it is not that simple - for a start to gain real security you have
to be careful to mingle streams in very precise ways, to lose the
temporal statistics that give away the origins of each packet - you
have to match wheat to chaff on a packet by packet basis to get good
security.  Furthermore you have to use a CSRNG or true random source
to generate fake MACs, or have another MAC key for the complementary
stream(s) - It is not so easy to say that these precautions could be an
accidental act, or that they are entirely non-cryptographic.

However I view the process rather differently.  There are two channels
- the message is carried in the MAC and in the plaintext bits.
Chaffing simply serves to obliterate the plaintext channel.  The
recipient doesn't need to get the plaintext bits at all - they can
simply try the MAC against both 0 and 1, and choose the correct one.
(although this doubles the workload)

Furthermore an "attacker" can't tell, without breaking the MAC scheme,
whether the plaintext is genuine or a blind, and so this makes
chaffing/winnowing an ideal carrier of steganography.  It's like
sending a plaintext file and a ciphertext file together, with an
assertion that they correspond - unless you can prove this assertion
how can an outsider be convinced you are not hiding information in the
ciphertext file?  How can you prove this assertion without giving away
your MAC key?  How can you demonstrate you are using a MAC and not
simply triple-DES?


__Mark
[ markt@harlequin.co.uk | http://www.harlequin.co.uk/ | +44(0)1954 785433 ]





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSqncrs 
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 10:26:19 -0700 (PDT)
To: tcmay@got.net
Subject: Re: A 'Nobody' Out From 'Obscura'
Message-ID: <41a646f.355b28e4@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


In a message dated 5/14/98 11:07:23 AM Central Daylight Time, tcmay@got.net
writes:

<< At 1:12 AM -0700 5/14/98, StanSqncrs wrote:
 >In a message dated 5/14/98 1:28:03 AM Central Daylight Time, tcmay@got.net
 >writes:
 >
 ><< > Bad beginning, Sir Will.  The willingness to pass along material of
 >dubious
 > > authenticity is not a good sign in my book. As Mr. Natural would say,
 >"Check
 > > your source."  So, what *IS* your source?
 >
 > This qualifies as an Official News Story Quote under the guidelines
 > released by 'True Lies On The InterNet Coommiittee' which was formed
 > on Oct. 3, 1954. >>
 
 Stan ("and the Sequencers") quotes me as saying things I never said. >>

Look, nobody (IMHO), I quoted another FreeGroupie.  Then I quoted YOU involved
in a 'red-herring' (unless someone forged your address) - "This qualifies as
an Official News Story Quote under the guidelines released by 'True Lies On
The InterNet Coommiittee' which was formed on Oct. 3, 1954."

Keep it up, Tim.

Stan




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 04:33:30 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Anymous twit dealing in hypocracy
In-Reply-To: <199805101850.LAA00114@sirius.infonex.com>
Message-ID: <199805141133.NAA13097@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


wmcclatc@primenet.com (William J. McClatchie) wrote:

> X-Comment: Aw, are you offended?

[...]

> > Do you operate a remailer, McClatchie?
>  
> Do you? Which one?
>
> Personally, too many people use them for abusive purposes these days to
> feel like making the effort.  Just look in triangle.general for posts from
> nobody@replay.com for an example of someone using a remailer to harrass
> someone else.

Perhaps you ought to reread your own header line, if you don't like what is
being posted:  "Aw, are you offended>".  Many remailer users utilize them
to avoid retaliation for hypersensitive netcops like you, Gary Burnore, and
Steve Crisp.

If everyone posted strictly politically correct content that wouldn't offend
anyone, there would be little need for anonymity.  But threatening to
"beat the living fuck out of" someone because he disagreed with what someone
posted is ample reason to withhold one's name and e-mail address.

If you don't like to read anonymous posts, please feel free to learn the
proper use of a killfile, McClatchie.  BTW, only one of us is using a
proper, RFC-compliant e-mail address in the From: line.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jackson Dodd 
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 14:11:03 -0700 (PDT)
To: coderpunks@toad.com
Subject: Announcing the Call for Papers - USENIX 1999 Annual Conference
Message-ID: <199805142113.OAA00295@usenix.ORG>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



The Program Chair, Avi Rubin of AT&T Labs - Research, and the Program
Committee announce the availability of the Call for Papers for:

1999 USENIX ANNUAL TECHNICAL CONFERENCE
June 7-11, 1999
Monterey Conference Center, Monterey, California

Sponsored by USENIX, the Advanced Computing Systems Association

================================================
Call for Papers at
    http://www.usenix.org/events/usenix99/cfp.html

Paper submissions due:  December 2, 1998
================================================

The Program Committee seeks original and innovative papers on the
applications, architecture, implementation, and performance of modern
computing systems. Papers that analyze problem areas and draw important
conclusions from practical experience are especially welcome. Some
particularly interesting application topics are:

               Availability
               Distributed caching and replication
               Embedded systems
               Extensible operating systems
               File systems and storage systems
               Interoperability of heterogeneous systems
               Mobile code
               Mobile computing
               Multimedia
               New algorithms and applications
               Personal digital assistants
               Quality of service
               Reliability
               Security and privacy
               Ubiquitous computing and messaging
               Web technologies

Invited Talk and tutorial suggestions and proposals are also very 
welcome.
====================================================================
USENIX is the Advanced Computing Systems Association.  Its members 
are the computer technologists responsible for many of the innovations 
in computing we enjoy today.  To find out more about USENIX, visit its 
web site: http://www.usenix.org.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Hugh Daniel 
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 14:57:25 -0700 (PDT)
To: linux-ipsec@clinet.fi
Subject: ANNOUNCE:  FreeS/WAN IPSEC & IKE version 0.8 released & useful!
Message-ID: <199805142156.OAA24052@road.toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


  I would like to announce for the FreeS/WAN software team that they
now have a freeswan-0.8 release available for download from the
FreeS/WAN home page at:
	  http://www.xs4all.nl/~freeswan

  The 0.8 (and target 1.0 in June) runs only in a VPN (tunnel) mode,
protecting and encrypting net traffic for a subnet behind the SG.
This setup is called a SG for Security Gateway.  We plan on
implementing the rest of the IPSEC and IKE draft standards in our 2.0
release later this summer for the 2.1.xxx and 2.2.xx series Linux
kernels.

  There is some useful documentation for the current FreeS/WAN done by
Kai Martius at:
    http://www.imib.med.tu-dresden.de/imib/Internet/index.html

  The 0.8 release has been tested extensively in the hand keyed
ESP-3DES-HMAC-MD5-96 tunnel mode and is quite robust.  On a 150Mhz 586
Clone PC TCP throughput is over 320 Kbytes/second sustained as
measured by netperf.
  The IKE daemon pluto has been tested only a very little and
sometimes works and sometimes does not.  It will work for the simple
VPN case before 1.0.

  Feedback, new features, documentation, scripts and bug fixes &
reports are especially useful in the next few weeks before we start in
on the 0.9x series of release working up to a stable 1.0 release in
June.  Don't wait for the last minute to submit that neat feature or
bug fix, as we might not have time to include it!

  If you have questions about the project please see our home page
where you will find a mail list, list archives, FTP directory's etc.
  Thanks to everyone who made this release possible, but mostly the
people who coded it up!

  Please post all bugs, fixes, code etc. to the public email list at
.

		||ugh Daniel
		hugh@toad.com
			Systems Testing & Project mis-Management
			The Linux FreeS/WAN Project
			http://www.xs4all.nl/~freeswan





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSqncrs 
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 12:33:24 -0700 (PDT)
To: Cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: A 'Nobody' Out From 'Obscura'
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Obviously, this is a forgery, it isn't me, my guess is, it's our 'nobody' -

<< Boy, do I feel like an idiot!!!
 
 I got my head out of my ass and checked out the headers on some
 of the messages coming from the list and discovered that many
 of them, including the one I am referring to above, are forgeries
 by Ulf Moller (who has those two 'eyes' over the 'o' in his name,
 just like the eye in the pyramid on the US dollar-bill, which 
 means he must be a Bavarian Illuminati shill).
 
 Received: (from cpunks@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id
UAA02347 for 
 cypherpunks@algebra.com; Wed, 13 May 1998 20:33:59 -0500
 Received: from public.uni-hamburg.de (public.uni-hamburg.de [134.100.41.1])
by 
 einstein.ssz.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA02311 for 
 ; Wed, 13 May 1998 20:33:32 -0500
 Received: from paris.public.uni-hamburg.de (max2-145.public.uni-hamburg.de 
 [134.100.45.145])
 Received: by ulf.mali.sub.org (Smail3.1.28.1 #1)
 Message-Id: 
 Date: Thu, 14 May 98 03:15 +0200
 From: ulf@fitug.de (Ulf =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=F6ller?=)
 To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com, mix-l@jpunix.com
 Subject: Re: "... would cause us to look at this person as a threat"
 
 
 I would like to apologize to Tim, and to all of the other
 cypherpunks that I have offended by my stupid, ignorant posts
 and attitude on the list.
 I'm not really a CypherPunk. I don't even suck cock!
 (OK, I sucked my brother's cock a little, when I was younger,
  but that was just 'experimentation', OK? By the time I was
  nine, I had started fucking my little sister, so that *proves*
  I'm straight, eh?)
 
 Anyway, I don't think we should put up with this shit from Ulf
 (DoubleEye Illuminati) Moller. Let's all spam him.
 
 Stan Guildenstern
 http://A(h)OL(e).commie/Boy_Am_I_Stupid!!!.html >>




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: goodnews4u@mailexcite.com
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 19:04:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: El Nino !!!
Message-ID: <199805150204.TAA14141@cygint.cygnus.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



                                            El Nino

Learn how to be an informed investor and how a $1.00 realized 
gain in your
grain option value could return as much as $25,000 on a minimum 
investment
of $5,000.

Why Invest Now?


The 1982-1983 El Nino was the strongest of the century spreading 
drought,
floods and extreme weather across the vast stretches of the 
globe.  Total
combined losses to property and agriculture from weather related
catastrophes are estimated to have exceeded $10 billion.  The 
current El
Nino  has already surpassed the 1982-1983 event in magnitude and 
is expected
to have major impacts on world weather through the summer of 
1998.


How realistic is it that the grain option prices will move one 
dollar?


1982-1983 El NINO IMPACT ON AGRICULTURAL PRODUCTS FUTURES PRICES

corn:        Nov. 1982-$2.165/bushel (low)      Aug. 1983-  
3.76/bushel
(high)     $1.59 increase

soybeans:    Oct. 1982 $5.18/ bushel  (low)     Sep. 1983-  
$9.60/ bushel
(high)    $4.42 increase


That's the past.  What does the future hold?


It remains to be seen if the 1997-1998 El Nino will duplicate the 
severe
weather conditions that affected agriculture production around 
the globe in
1982-1983.  However, given the historically tight supplies and 
record demand
for corn and sobeans repectively, combined with the strength of 
the current
El Nino event along with grain prices starting out from 
multi-year lows,  it
is our opinion that there is the potential for dramatic price 
increases in
the futures and options prices of agricultural products.


How do I receive my free information on the corn and soybean 
markets?
Call Us at 1-800-526-4922, 24 Hrs. a day, seven days a week ,
Please include: (no packages can be
sent without the following)

*NAME

*ADDRESS

*PHONE#

*BEST TIME TO CALL



An American Research & Trading, Inc., Series 3 registered 
commodity broker
will call to confirm the request for information.  All American 
Research &
Trading, Inc. brokers are registered with the National Futures 
Association
(NFA) and the Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC).

Please only serious inquiries.

Past performance is not necessarily indicative of future results. 
 You could
lose part or all of your investment.  However, when purchasing 
options, your
risk is predetermined to the amount you invest.  Commission and 
fees will
impact the total amount Returned to the client. Options do not 
move dollar
for dollar with the underlying futures contract until expiration 
date. No
implication is being made that any American Research & Trading, 
Inc. client
has or will obtain such a profit.

To remove your name from our mailing list, please send an e-mail 
to:
jcooley245@aol.com

put the word "remove" along with your e-mail address.  We will 
immediately
remove your name.











ns
BD
p-g-d
58-n+t
9-1
c#d
d
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 15:03:40 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: SecureOffice Challenge
Message-ID: <199805142203.SAA11962@camel8.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Kathleen Ellis has announced on Cryptography that
she has put a copy of SecureOffice on her Web site
in support of Charles Boother and against the BXA 
subponea of his records concerning export of his
168-bit encryption program:

    http://www.filesafety.com/

We are pleased to join Kathleen by putting SecureOffice
on our site, with the thread on civil disobedience at:

   http://jya.com/bxa-syncsys.htm






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mixmaster 
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 20:52:27 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: test
Message-ID: <199805150331.UAA29933@sirius.infonex.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


don't answer this.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: wcoile@home.atlantech.net
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 17:44:34 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: ignore
Message-ID: <199805150044.UAA27560@home.atlantech.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


only a test..




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 21:57:04 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Non-anonymous remailers
In-Reply-To: <199805150215.EAA08803@basement.replay.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980514215643.007dfcc0@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 04:15 AM 5/15/98 +0200, some allegedly anonymous person wrote:
>Recently a new technology has been proposed: non-anonymous remailers.

Feh - anybody who wants non-anonymous remailers should include his name :-)
On the other hand, perhaps the allegedly anonymous author didn't
believe the purported name of the alleged proposer, or chose to
phrase the proposal in the exculpatory passive voice.

>A non-anonymous remailer separates the two traditional functions of the
>remailer network: anonymity and avoiding traffic analysis.  Because the
>network provides both of these features, some people may not be aware
>that they are distinct.

Good point.  

>A non-anonymous remailer avoids traffic analysis but does not provide
>anonymity.  The recipient can tell who the sender of a message is,
>but no one else can, neither the remailers nor eavesdroppers.
>
>There are several ways to achieve this cryptographically.  The general
>idea is that the sender of the message must sign it with a valid public
>key (one signed by a CA trusted by the remailer network).  This signature
>is hidden from everyone but the recipient because the message is encrypted
>for the recipient.  However the sender can use variants of zero knowledge
>proofs to demonstrate that inside the encryption there is a signature
>which satisfies the requirements.

Overkill, and inadequate.  Let's start with overkill:
- If you require all outgoing email to be encrypted,
  you don't have constructive knowledge that your system
  is being abused.  Legally, that should be significant protection;
  rules about not being liable for things you don't know you did
  are much harder to change than rules about things you know.
- Posting a big sign requiring conformance with policies,
  backed up by occasional action against violators,
  helps establish your presumption of good character.
- Requiring all outgoing mail to be encrypted makes spamming
  much more difficult (today), though in the Great Cryptographic Future,
  when everybody has at least one easily-located public key,
  that's less effective - but even then it significantly increases
  the workload for the spammer (though Moore's Law makes that less
  relevant, and good Crypto APIs make development of spamware easy.)
  It doesn't stop harassers, but it does reduce spam.
- A few Supreme Court cases, such as Talley and McIntyre,
  protect the right to anonymous speech, including commercial,
  so the proposed law has a high bogosity index.

For inadequacy, there are a variety of problems:
- Zero-knowledge proofs can at most verify that there's an identifier
  in some defined format or from some accessible list of keys.
  They can't verify that the message really came from
  the homeless person who allegedly sent the mail, nor that the
  address, phone number, or email named can locate a real body.
  They also tend to need special forms for the data, which may not
  work for CA-format key signatures.
- ZKPs aren't very useful for identifying the insides of 
  multiply-encrypted data - so they only give you one hop at a time,
  and only for cooperative remailers in cooperative jurisdictions.
- Protocols that provide information about the insides of
  an encrypted message are notoriously hard to make both
  secure and useful.

>Non-anonymous remailers would be suitable for cases where people do
>not want eavesdroppers to know with whom they are communicating, but
>where they don't need to be anonymous to their communication partners.

Distinctly true, though the easiest way to achieve that is to
separate the two problems, providing solid privacy protection
outside and letting the users sign the inside message if they want.

				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: SeeInfoBelow@yahoo.com
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 22:25:19 -0700 (PDT)
To: WiseFolk@yahoo.com
Subject: 2 x 2 = $1,100                                                    (S1)
Message-ID: <199805150523.XAA15935@sparky.i-link.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



===============================================================
           The New ABC Math: 2 x 2 = $1,100 Per Cycle!
===============================================================

  Fast-Cycling 2 X 2 Company Matrix Means Great Commissions!

  How many $1,100 checks would you like to receive... DAILY?

        For the Serious Entrepreneur or Business Person:
                  Tools to Help Your Business
                    By a 9-year old Company

               * Business Opportunity Seeker Leads
               * 7.9 cents/min Long Distance
               * Virtual Office

               2 Minute Overview:  (415) 273-6063

                  Ask yourself these questions:
         Are you willing to invest in your own success?
        How many times would you like to cycle in a day?

                        IT'S THAT SIMPLE!

            http://www.fontaineonline.com/cyberedge

===============================================================
 To be REMOVED from our list, type REMOVE is the subject area
         of a new email and send to: B2998@yahoo.com
===============================================================





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: gburnore@netcom.com (Gary L. Burnore)
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 16:22:56 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Abusive crossposting by anonymous remailer user (Was: Gary Lee Burnore is a Convicted Sex Offender in Raleigh, NC)
In-Reply-To: <199805101850.LAA00114@sirius.infonex.com>
Message-ID: <355c7cd1.523967461@206.214.99.10>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On 14 May 1998 12:03:51 GMT, in article <6jemj7$6km@news1.cheetah.net>,
mefisto@ns1.cheetah.net () wrote:

:9AD67.6649@pageplanet.com> <199805131942.VAA17993@basement.replay.com>
:Distribution: 
:
:Anonymous (nobody@REPLAY.COM) wrote:
:: Steve Crisp  And it still stands. Come out of hiding and see if you survive the
:: > night.
:: >  
:: > Steve Crisp
:
:: Does anyone question the need for the ability to post anonymously with
:[--]
::    PagePlanet (PAGEPLANET-DOM)
:
:What's the big deal.  Anyone doing a whois can find this and any other
:address.  They ARE published openly and UN-ANONYMOUSLY.	 You think you
:invented something?

My guess is that PagePlanet is his next target.  He did the same thing to
DataBasix (and me).

-- 
        for i in databasix netcom primenet ; do ; gburnore@$i ; done
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  How you look depends on where you go.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gary L. Burnore                       |  ÝŰłşÝłŢłşÝłłÝۺݳ޳şÝłÝłŢłşÝłÝÝŰł
                                      |  ÝŰłşÝłŢłşÝłłÝۺݳ޳şÝłÝłŢłşÝłÝÝŰł
DOH!                                  |  ÝŰłşÝłŢłşÝłłÝۺݳ޳şÝłÝłŢłşÝłÝÝŰł
                                      |  ÝŰł 3 4 1 4 2  ݳ޳ 6 9 0 6 9 ÝŰł
spamgard(tm):  zamboni                |     Official Proof of Purchase
===========================================================================
             PGPprint: C63B CF4E 1B71 4D7E C6F8 AF4E 338D 5CB4
    KeyID: 0x0F7EDBD9 (RSA)     finger gburnore@netcom.com for public key
---------------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 19:15:40 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Non-anonymous remailers
Message-ID: <199805150215.EAA08803@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Recently a new technology has been proposed: non-anonymous remailers.

A non-anonymous remailer separates the two traditional functions of the
remailer network: anonymity and avoiding traffic analysis.  Because the
network provides both of these features, some people may not be aware
that they are distinct.

Anonymity means that no one can tell who sent a message.  Neither the
recipient, the remailers, or an eavesdropper can know the source of
a message.

Avoiding traffic analysis means making it impossible for the path a
message takes through the network to be traced, either by the remailers
or by third parties.

A non-anonymous remailer avoids traffic analysis but does not provide
anonymity.  The recipient can tell who the sender of a message is,
but no one else can, neither the remailers nor eavesdroppers.

There are several ways to achieve this cryptographically.  The general
idea is that the sender of the message must sign it with a valid public
key (one signed by a CA trusted by the remailer network).  This signature
is hidden from everyone but the recipient because the message is encrypted
for the recipient.  However the sender can use variants of zero knowledge
proofs to demonstrate that inside the encryption there is a signature
which satisfies the requirements.

The remailer net will only deliver a message to an end user if it is able
to verify that the message, when decrypted, will be properly signed.
This assures that the end user will be able to determine who sent the
message, while no one else will.

Non-anonymous remailers would be suitable for cases where people do
not want eavesdroppers to know with whom they are communicating, but
where they don't need to be anonymous to their communication partners.
A financial house's merger and acquisitions department, for example,
would not want third parties to know with whom they are exchanging
email.  A surveillance target will want to hide the identities of his
co-conspirators.  An employee who is considering changing jobs will
not want his employer to know that he is sending email to a competitor.
Many similar examples exist.

Non-anonymous remailers would also have the advantage that they would be
much less prone to abuse than anonymous remailers.  Sending a harrassing
message or commercial spam through a non-anonymous remailer would be
pointless.  It might as well have been sent directly, since the remailer
does not hide the sender's identity from the recipient.

In summary, non-anonymous remailers prevent traffic analysis without
providing anonymity.  This more limited functionality renders the remailer
less vulnerable to abuse and misuse, while providing protection which
will be adequate for many situations, and which may be especially
appropriate for the business environment.

25BA1A9F5B9010DD8C752EDE887E9AF3 [Cantsin Protocol No. 2]
092AA1EC9926D468F8964B8EF537DDC1782A1281
5838A82465D8E6D05769B3A837D8C43CBF2C5500
-AE8 AE8
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




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: sendoff6@hotmail.com
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 20:21:51 -0700 (PDT)
To: sendoff6@hotmail.com
Subject: Find out what "They" don't want you to know!
Message-ID: <031297055501222@g_fantism.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Dear Friend:
 
 If you have already responded to the following announcement a few 
 days ago, that means your package is already on its way and it 
 should be arriving soon! If you have not responded to this before, 
 please pay attention to it now. This is very important!!!
 
 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
 IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT
 IMPORTANT ACCOUNCEMENT
 ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
 '''''''''''''''''''''''''''
 Your future May Depend on it !
 
 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
 Before you know about this 'Important Announcement', you must 
 first read the following 'Editorial Excerpts' from some important 
 publications in the United States:
 
 NEW YORK TIMES: "In concluding our review of Financial 
 organizations to effect change in the 90's, special attention 
 should be called to a California based organization, 'WORLD 
 CURRENCY CARTEL'. Members of this organization are amassing 
 hundred of millions of dollars in the currency market using a very 
 LEGAL method which has NEVER been divulged to the general public. 
 While their purpose is not yet known, their presence has most 
 certainly been felt".
 
 NBC NIGHTLY NEWS: "Members of 'World Currency Cartel', who always 
 keep a low profile, are considered to be some of the most 
 wealthiest people in North America".
 
 More excerpts later, but first let us give you this very 
 'IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT":
 ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
 ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
 ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
 ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
 ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
 '''''''''
 We are glad to announce that for the first time and for a very 
 short period of time, WORLD CURRENCY CARTEL will instruct a 
 LIMITED number of people worldwide on 'HOW TO CONVERT $25 INTO ONE 
 HUNDRED OF LEGAL CURRENCY'. We will transact the first conversion 
 for you, after that you can easily and quickly do this on your own 
 hundreds or even thousands of times every month.
 TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THIS "SECRET FLAW" !
 ******************************************************************
 ******************************************************************
 ***
 
 It is even more explosive than we have yet disclosed. While 
 currency does fluctuate daily, we can show you 'HOW TO CONVERT $99 
 INTO $588 AS MANY TIMES AS YOU WANT'. That means, you will be able 
 to EXCHANGE $99, AMERICAN LEGAL CURRENCY DOLLARS, FOR $580 OF THE 
 SAME. You can do this as many times as you wish, every day, every 
 week, every month. All very LEGAL and effortlessly!
 
 It takes only 5 to 10 minutes each time you do this. You can do 
 this from home, office or even while traveling. All you need is 
 an access to a phone line and an address. Best of all, you can do 
 this from ANY CITY ON THIS EARTH!!!
 
 Again, we must reiterate, anyone can do this and the source is 
 NEVER-ENDING. For as long as the global financial community 
 continues to use different currencies with varying exchange rates, 
 the "SECRET FLAW" will exist.
 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
 As we said earlier , we will do the first transaction for you and 
 will show you exactly how to do this on your own, over and over 
 again!
 
 The amount of exchange you would do each time is entirely up to 
 you. Working just 2 to 10 hours a week, you can soon join the list 
 of Millionaires who do this on a daily basis many times a day. The 
 transaction is so simple that even a high school kid can do it!
 
 We at the World Currency Cartel would like to see a uniform global 
 currency backed by Gold. But, until then, we will allow a LIMITED 
 number of individuals worldwide to share in the UNLIMITED PROFITS 
 provided for by the world currency differentials.
 
 We will espouse no more political views nor will we ask you to do 
 so. We can say however, that our parent organization, NDML, 
 benefits greatly by the knowledge being shared, as we 
 ourselves, along with YOU, benefit likewise. Your main concern 
 surely will be, how you will benefit.
 
 As soon as you become a member, you will make transactions from 
 your home, office, by telephone or through the mail. You can 
 conduct these transactions even while traveling.
 
 Don't believe us? Experience it for yourself!
 ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; 
 Unlike anyone else, we will assure you great financial freedom and 
 you will add to our quickly growing base of supporters and join 
 the list of MILLIONAIRES being created using this very "SECRET 
 FLAW" in the world currency market.
 ******************************************************************
 ******************************************************************
 ***
 
 DON'T ENVY US, JOIN US TODAY!!!
 ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
 ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
 ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
 ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
 ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
 '''''''''
 There is a one time membership fee of only $195. BUT, if you join 
 us by June 9, 1998 date, you can join us for only $25 administrative 
 cost. Your  important documents, instructions, contact name/address, 
 phone number and all other pertinent information will be mailed to 
 you  immediately. So take advantage of our Anniversary date and join 
 us today.
 
 (If you are replying after June 9, you must pay $195.00 for 
 the membership fee. NO EXCEPTIONS, and no more E-mail inquiries 
 please).
 
 Upon becoming a member, you promise to keep all infos 
 CONFIDENTIAL!
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 Should you choose to cancel your membership for any reason, you 
 must return all papers/documents for a refund within 60 days.
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
 IMPORTANT:
 ****************
 
 1...Please write your name & mailing address VERY CLEARLY on a 
 paper
 2...Below your mailing address, please write your E-mail address 
 (optional)
 3...At the top left hand corner, please write the words "NEW 
 MEMBER"
 4...Attach a CHECK or MONEY ORDER for $25 + $3 for the shipping of 
 documents (TOTAL = $28.00) PAYABLE TO      
      "NDML" and mail to:
 
                NDML
                PO BOX 311
                MILFORD, NJ 08848

*If outside US add an additional $10 (TOTAL + $38.00)
 
 }}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
 }}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
 }}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
 
 Here are some more 'Editorial Excerpts':
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 WALL STREET: "A discreet group of Americans, operating under the 
 guise of World Currency Cartel have recently begun making rumbles in 
 world finance market. While at this time, their game is not completely 
 known, they certainly will be watched by those making major moves in the 
 currency contracts".
 
 FINANCIAL WEEK: "Watch them, monitor them, extract their knowledge 
 and try to become one of them. That is the soundest financial 
 advice we could give to anyone".
 
 NATIONAL BUSINESS WEEKLY: "While this reporter has been left in 
 the cold as to its method of operation, we have been able to 
 confirm that 'World Currency Cartel' and its members are literally 
 amassing great fortunes overnight".
 
 $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$END$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
 $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
 We thankfully credit DIAMOND INT. for the content of this 
 IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT.
 
 
 
 
  >>





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 06:58:08 -0700 (PDT)
To: lawya@lucs-01.novell.leeds.ac.uk
Subject: Ruby Ridge and jury trial
Message-ID: <355C479A.28DD@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Friday 5/15/98 7:17 AM	

J Orlin Grabbe
John Young

ABQ J 5/15/98

 Charges Dismissed in Ruby Ridge Case
  BOISE, Idaho  -  A federal judge on Thursday dismissed an involuntary
manslaughter
  charge against an FBI sharpshooter for the death of white separatist
Randy Weaver's
  wife during the siege at Ruby Ridge.
    U.S. District Judge Edward Lodge ruled that Lon Horiuchi was acting
within the 
  scope of his authority and was honestly discharging his duties when he
fired the shot
  that killed Vicki Weaver on Aug. 22, 1992.
    The U.S. Justice Department decided in 1994 against prosecuting
Horiuchi, or any of
  his FBI superiors and reaffirmed the decision last year.

1  It was NOT a jury which made the determination Horiuchi was acting
within the scope
   of his authority, but a FEDERAL JUDGE.
2  The Justice Department did not prosecute FBI agents

  FASCISM -   a political and economic movement, strongly nationalistic,
magnifying the rights
  of the state as opposed to those of the individual, in which industry,
though remaining largely 
  under private ownership, and all administrative political units, are
controlled by a strong central     
  government.

Morales and I were unable to meet on Thursday.  Today we will study the
docket sheets view at
http://www.jya.com/whp-10usca.htm today.  And open the letter I received
from EEOC Inspector
General Office.

The above Ruby Ridge article emphasizes the importance of a jury trial
in matters of federal 
government misconduct.  http://www.jya.com/whp043098.htm

This matter should get settled before it gets WORSE.

Later
bill






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Brian 
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 07:47:24 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: (no subject)
Message-ID: <355C576B.184D@ucsd.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 14:53:29 -0700 (PDT)
To: federico pena <" Federico.F.Pena"@hq.doe.gov>, Thomas.Mann@hq.doe.gov
Subject: FOIA appeal, again
Message-ID: <355CB7C1.25A@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Friday 5/15/98 2:55 PM

E-mail Federico.F.Pena@hq.doe.gov and mail

Federico F. Pena
The Secretary of Energy
United States Department of Energy
Washington, D.C. 20585

Dear Secretary Pena:

Purposes of this letter are to

 1 protest an improper Freedom of Information Act dismissal by
Thomas O. Mann , Deputy Director, Office of Hearings and Appeals
Thomas.Mann@hq.doe.gov

2 appeal a denial of a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) Request.

I attach a copy of my 3/10/98 appeal letter to you.

DOE/ALOO failed to respond with time allotted by law to my FOIA request,
as you can read in my appeal letter.

On March 30, 1998 Barfield finally did respond.  But late.

APR 28 Mann writes me,

  We learned that AOO issued a determination concerning your request on
March
  30, 1998.  Because your appeal was based on the Department's failure
to respond,
  and because the Department has responded you appeal is now moot.

I follow the law.

If Mann feels that there is law or federal regulation to support is
claim that the
time-out clause in the FOIA no longer applies because of a late agency
response,
then he should report this to you. 

Mann adds in the final paragraph of his APR 28 letter

  Accordingly, the appeal dated march 10, 1998, that you filed under the
Freedom of
  Information Act, is hereby dismissed.

My appeal is not, as Mann concluded, moot.  My appeal is active.

Mann, however, writes

  You may, however, file an appeal with the Office based on the March 30
determination.

Man also writes

  Please note that, as stated in the determination letter, appeals under
the Freedom of
  Information Act should be addressed to the Director of the Office of
Hearings and Appeals.

And Barfield writes

  Such an appeal must be made in writing within 30 calendar days after
receipt of this letter,
  addressed to the Director, Office of Hearing and Appeals, ...

Secretary Pena, your employees are apparently trying to invent their own
FOIA rules instead
of complying with federal law.

  Whenever a FOIA request is denied, the agency must inform
  the requester of the reasons for the denial and the requester's
  right to appeal the denial to the head of the agency.

I am appealing to you, not
http://www.hr.doe.gov/htbin/callup?name=breznay&SYNONYM=YES,
George.Breznay@hq.doe.gov

I ask that your office takes WRITTEN corrective action to educate or
perhaps reprimand
both Mann and Barfield for not following the law.

Barfield writes in her Mar 30 letter

  The Kirtland Area Office (KAO), oversight for the Sandia National
Laboratories (SNL),
  conducted a search but could not locate any responsive documents.  The
KAO also made
  the determination that the documents you are seeking are contained in
procurement files
  in possession and control of SNL and are, therefore, not "agency
records" subject to
  provision of the FOIA.

Secretary Pena, Barfield's statement appears to be an attempt for
bureaucrats to hide,
perhaps in the case of RSA and VP Al Gore, possibly incriminating
records from the public.

Therefore, I assert that the requested documents are or should be part
of DOE agency documents,
if DOE is doing a proper job of managing its contractors.

Therefore, I add this clause to my previous appeal.  And ask that your
respond within the
time limit allowed you by law.

Of course, I continue to feel that we should settle this unfortunate
matter seen on Internet
at

http://www.jya.com/whp050898.htm
http://www.jya.com/whp-10usca.htm
http://www.jya.com/whp043098.htm
http://www.jya.com/mf050998.htm
http://jya.com/whpfiles.htm
http://www.jya.com/crack-a5.htm
http://caq.com/cryptogate
http://www.aci.net/kalliste/speccoll.htm
http://www.aci.net/kalliste/nukearse.htm

before it gets even more serious and eventually costly to the taxpayer.

Sincerely,



William H. Payne 
13015 Calle de Sandias 
Albuquerque, NM 87111


Tuesesday 3/10/98 8:10 PM

E-mail Federico.F.Pena@hq.doe.gov and mail

Federico F. Pena
The Secretary of Energy
United States Department of Energy
Washington, D.C. 20585

Dear Secretary Pena:

Purpose of this letter is to appeal a denial of a Freedom of 
Information Act (FOIA) Request.

I wrote on Tuesday February 17, 1999 15:11

  e-mail and mail

  Ms. Elva Barfield
  Freedom of Information Office
  U. S. Department of Energy
  Albuquerque Operations Office/OIEA
  POB 5400
  Albuquerque, NM 87185-5400
  EBARFIELD@DOEAL.GOV

  Dear Ms. Barfield:

  VP Al Gore is in the crypto business.

    Information SuperSpyWay 
    Al Gore Approved
    Encryption for China
    in Return for
    Campaign Donations
    by Charles R. Smith

  Portions of the above document posted on Internet at 
  http://www.us.net/softwar/ and  http://www.aci.net/kalliste/ 
  states

  1.	Gore charged with encryption policy according to PDD-5 and 
              PRD-27 on April 16, 1993. 

  2.	Government officials represent themselves on Al Gore's behalf for 
      RSA patent purchase negotiations in Feb. 1994. 
  3.	RSA chairman Bidzos meets with Chinese officials at the same 
      time as Ron Brown in Oct. 1995. 

  4.	RSA Chairman Bidzos enters into merger negotiations with Security 
	Dynamics, a company backed by Sanford Robertson, in Nov. 1995. 

  5.	VP Gore calls Sanford Robertson from the White House for a 
      donation in Nov. 1995. 

  6.	Robertson delivers $100,000 donation ($80,000 soft - $20,000 
	directly into the Clinton/Gore campaign) in Jan. 1996. 
  7.	RSA signs deal with China in Feb. 1996. The administration 
	previously prosecuted similar deals but this time does nothing. 
  8.	Justice Dept. approves RSA merger with Security Dynamics in 
	April 1996 for $280 million dollars, netting Sanford Robertson's 
	company a cool $2 million just to write the deal. 



  In 1991 I was in involved with Sandia National Laboratories
  Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty seismic data authenticator.

  At that time Sandia director Tommy A Sellers had assumed 
  responsibility for directorship from Robert Clem.

  Sandia supervisor Tom Wright replaced my supervisor, John Holovka, 
  who was the supervisor for the CTBT seismic data authenticator.

  Wright brought in Ph.D. Steven Goldsmith to supervise me.

  Sellars, Wright, and Goldsmith were new to crypto-type projects.

  Much of this is documented at http://www.jya.com/whp021598.htm.

  This is evidenced by Sellar's attached SEP 24 1991 memorandum,
  which Goldsmith help author, addressed to Dr James J Hearn at 
  the National Security Agency.

  The SEP 24 memorandum contained a number of technical errors.

  I corrected these errors in my attached December 20, 1991 memorandum.

  Department of Energy and it predecessors have a well-documented
  history of not requiring technical expertise for pursuit of interests.

  Stewart Udall, The Myths of August, writes,

      Any cover-up must be implemented and enforced by designated
    agents, and one man emerged in 1953 as the quarterback of the 
    AEC's damage-control effort.  His name was Gordon Dunning.
    Although the personnel charts of the 1950s list him as a low-level 
    "rad-safe" official in the Division of Biology and Medicine,           
    documents demonstrate that he was clothed with authority to    
    manage and suppress information about the radiation released
    by the testing of nuclear weapons. ...

  About the time Sellers and Sandia Ombudsman gave me a directed
  transfer to break electronic locks for the FBI/ERF [engineering
  research facility], Goldsmith and Wright, certainly with the approval
  of Sellers, placed a contract with RSA Inc [http://www.rsa.com/], 
  I was told.

  Ms Barfield, we think the American public needs to know more about
  RSA's work with Sandia National Laboratories.

  Therefore, Under the provision of the Freedom of Information Act, 
  5 USC 552, I am requesting access to: 

    1 ALL purchase requisitions, including any attached statement of
       work, issued by Sandia National Laboratories, Los Alamos     
       National Laboratories, or DOE/ALOO between January 1, 1991
       and February 17, 1998 to RSA Inc.

    2  Copies of all invoices from RSA Inc received by Sandia National   
        Laboratories, Los Alamos National Laboratories, or DOE/ALOO 
        between January 1, 1991  and February 17, 1998

  If there are any fees for searching for, or copying, the records 
  I have requested, please inform me before you fill the request.

  As you know, the Act permits you to reduce or waive the fees 
  when the release of the information is considered as "primarily 
  benefiting the public."  I believe that this requests fits that 
  category and I therefore ask that you waive any fees.

  Your office agreed to waive fees before.  This request is surely 
  of "public interest."

  December 13, 1994 DOE/AL FOIA officer Gwen Schreiner waived fees
  for the reason,

        "We have considered your request and have determined that
        release of the requested records is in the public interest,
        that disclosure of this information is likely to contribute
        significantly to public understanding of the operations or
        activities of the government, that you or the organization
        you represent have little or no commercial interest in the
        material contained in the records, that you or the
        organization you represent have the qualifications and
        ability to use and disseminate the information, and that the
        records are not currently in the public domain.  A waiver of
        fees is therefore granted."

  This waiver of fees was, undoubtedly, issued as a result of former
  Energy Secretary Hazel O'Leary's Openness initiative.

  Heart of America paid my way to hear Secretary O'Leary's celebrated
  whistleblower speech.

  If all or any part of this request is denied, please cite the 
  specific exemption(s) which you think justifies your refusal to 
  release the information and inform me of your agency's 
  administrative appeal procedures available to me under the law.

  I would appreciate your handling this request as quickly as 
  possible, and I look forward to hearing from you within 20 
  working days, as the law stipulates.

I received no response to the above FOIA. 

Therefore I appeal as a result of non-response.

As you may be aware

      (6)(A) Each agency, upon any request for records made under  
       paragraph (1), (2), or (3) of this subsection, shall--
            (i) determine within ten days \1\ (excepting
        Saturdays, Sundays, and legal public holidays) after
        the receipt of any such request whether to comply with
        such request and shall immediately notify the person
        making such request of such determination and the
        reasons therefor, and of the right of such person to
        appeal to the head of the agency any adverse
        determination; and

And you may also be aware

  -------------------------------------------------------------------------
      \1\ Under section 12(b) of the Electronic Freedom of Information
  Act Amendments of 1996 (Pub. L. 104-231; 110 Stat. 3054), the amendment
  made by section 8(b) of such Act striking ``ten days'' and inserting
  ``20 days'' shall take effect on October 3, 1997.
  -------------------------------------------------------------------------
            (ii) make a determination with respect to any
        appeal within twenty days (excepting Saturdays,
        Sundays, and legal public holidays) after the receipt
        of such appeal. If on appeal the denial of the request
        for records is in whole or in part upheld, the agency
        shall notify the person making such request of the
        provisions for judicial review of that determination
        under paragraph (4) of this subsection

So I expect a response to this appeal within the time allotted to you 
by law.

Much of this unfortunate matter is appearing on Internet.

 http://www.jya.com/whp021598.htm

 http://www.jya.com/cylinked.htm

 Letter from Bill Payne Regarding Cryptography at Sandia
 http://www.aci.net/kalliste/

 Crypto AG: The NSA's Trojan Whore?
 http://caq.com/CAQ/caq63/caq63madsen.html
  
 NSA, Crypto AG, and the Iraq-Iran War
 http://www.aci.net/kalliste/speccoll.htm

 How Secure is America's Nuclear Arsenal?
 http://www.aci.net/kalliste/nukearse.htm

And, of course, we continue to seek settlement.

Sincerely,



William H. Payne 
13015 Calle de Sandias 
Albuquerque, NM 87111 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 15:40:26 -0700 (PDT)
To: ray kammer <" kammer"@nist.gov>, lawya@lucs-01.novell.leeds.ac.uk
Subject: foia fee denial appeal and settlement letter
Message-ID: <355CC320.2CC1@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Friday 5/15/98 3:48 PM

By e-mail and US mail

Lieutenant General Kenneth A Minihan, USAF

Director, National Security Agency
National Security Agency
9800 Savage Road
Fort George G. Meade, MD 20755-6000

Dear General Minihan:

Purposes of the letter are to

1  appeal a FOIA fee waiver denial.
2  continue to explore settlement possibilities of our current 
lawsuit.

30 March Joann H. Grube, Deputy Director of Policy, NSA, wrote
in response to my Friday February 27, 1998 attached letter to you

  There are 706 cases ahead of your in our processing queue. ..

  Please be advised that your request for a waiver of fees has been
  denied.

Public knowledge of how much taxpayer NSA has likely squandered 
ATTEMPTING to build public key crypto chips certainly in
the public interest.

Therefore, I appeal Grube's denial.

Grube wrote

  Any person notified on an adverse determination may, within 60
  days after notification of the determination, file an appeal to the
  NSA/CSS Freedom of Information Act Appeal Authority.  The
  appeal shall be in writing and addressed to the NSA/CSS FOIA 
  Appeal Authority, ...

General Minihan,  Grube apparently is attempting to invent her
own FOIA appeal rules instead of follow federal law.  

  Whenever a FOIA request is denied, the agency must inform
  the requester of the reasons for the denial and the requester's
  right to appeal the denial to the head of the agency.

I ask that you educate and possibly reprimand Grube for her failure
to properly state law.

As you may be aware

      (6)(A) Each agency, upon any request for records made under  
       paragraph (1), (2), or (3) of this subsection, shall--
        (i) determine within ten days \1\ (excepting
        Saturdays, Sundays, and legal public holidays) after
        the receipt of any such request whether to comply with
        such request and shall immediately notify the person
        making such request of such determination and the
        reasons therefor, and of the right of such person to
        appeal to the head of the agency any adverse
        determination; and

And you may also be aware

 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
      \1\ Under section 12(b) of the Electronic Freedom of Information
  Act Amendments of 1996 (Pub. L. 104-231; 110 Stat. 3054), the
amendment
  made by section 8(b) of such Act striking ``ten days'' and inserting
  ``20 days'' shall take effect on October 3, 1997.
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
            (ii) make a determination with respect to any
        appeal within twenty days (excepting Saturdays,
        Sundays, and legal public holidays) after the receipt
        of such appeal. If on appeal the denial of the request
        for records is in whole or in part upheld, the agency
        shall notify the person making such request of the
        provisions for judicial review of that determination
        under paragraph (4) of this subsection

So I expect a response to this appeal within the time allotted to you 
by law.

Our lawsuit has attracted international attention on Internet.

http://www.jya.com/whp050898.htm
http://www.jya.com/whp-10usca.htm
http://www.jya.com/whp043098.htm
http://www.jya.com/mf050998.htm
http://jya.com/whpfiles.htm
http://www.jya.com/crack-a5.htm
http://caq.com/cryptogate
http://www.aci.net/kalliste/speccoll.htm
http://www.aci.net/kalliste/nukearse.htm

Partially, perhaps, as the result of the about .5 million dead Iranian
Shiite Muslims.
Or maybe judicial misconduct?

Morales and I plan to appeal to the Tenth in event that Morales'
dismissal is upheld.

Further, we feel that YOU must be held accountable.  Therefore we will
appeal your
removal from our lawsuit.

But this is sure to cost the taxpayer much more money.  

And failure to fairly settle these unfortunate matters raises the
possibility of a understandable, or opportunistic, retaliatory attack
for NSA's bungled spy sting on Iran
by the aggrieved or their enemies.  

Innocent people may be harmed.

Both alternatives are unpleasant to think about.

Therefore, Morales and I continue to offer to engage in settlement talks
with YOU.

I cannot find your e-mail address

Therefore I will forward the e-mail copy of this FOIA appeal /settlement
letter to 
Ray Kammer of NIST [http://www.nist.gov so that Kammer can possibly
forward an e-mail to you.

I am not reading e-mail. 

Sincerely,



William Payne
13015 Calle de Sandias
Albuquerque, NM 87111
505-292-7037


Friday February 27, 1998 3:15 PM


By e-mail and US mail

Lieutenant General Kenneth A Minihan, USAF

Director, National Security Agency
National Security Agency
9800 Savage Road
Fort George G. Meade, MD 20755-6000

Dear General Minihan:

Purposes of the letter are to

1  request information under the Freedom of Information Act
2  explore settlement possibilities of our current lawsuit.

In about 1986 Sandia National Laboratories assigned me the 
task of  design and construction of a Comprehensive Test Ban 
Treaty seismic data authenticator.

In the initial stages of the project, Sandia cryptographer 
Gustavus Simmons attempted to convince both Sandia 
management and NSA employees Tom White, Mark Unkenholtz,
and Ed Georgio that a form of public key authentication should 
replace NSA employee Ronald Benincasa's National Seismic
Station/Unmaned Seismic Observatory 11-bit data authentication
algorithm.

My Sandia supervisor John Holovka and project leader H B [Jim]
Durham ordered me to write a paper explaining public key 
cryptography.

This paper,  RSA ENCRYPTION, along with my SAND report
describing my implementation of Benincasa's algorithm and
filings in our lawsuit, now appear on Internet at
http://www.jya.com/index.htm, click CRYPTOME, then OpEd,
then http://www.jya.com/whprsa.htm.

Sandia explored the merits of switching from Benincasa's
algorithm to a public key-based authentication method suggested
by Simmons.

For Sandia's evaluation of the merits of public key, electronic tagging,
and Bureau of Engraving and Printing projects ,  I bought for Sandia 
samples both the Cylink CY1024 and AT&T A & B two chip sets for
modulo m arithmetic computations.

NSA employee Tom White sent me a copy of the SECRET classified
NSA report on IBM's hardware public key chip FIREFLY.

I wrote in my tutorial paper

  RSA hardware computations

  The slow speed of software RSA computations plus the potential
  wide use prompted several companies to build chips which compute
  modular arithmetic to at least several hundred bits.  Most of
  these chips "cascade" to compute with a larger number of bits.

  Corporations involved in building these chips are

     1  IBM  Firefly

     2  AT&T

     3  Motorola (apparently a three chip set)

     4  Cylink   Pittway-First alert

     5  Sandia Labs (Algorithm M and predecessor chip)

  Details of the IBM chip is classified.  AT&T as of July 1987 has
  not released details of their chip.  Little information is
  available on the Motorola chip set.

  The Cylink chip is commercially available.  Its price dropped
  from $1,500 to $600 each in June 1987.  Data is transferred to
  and from the chip with serial shift register communication.

  The early Sandia chip was limited in speed.  The replacement
  chip is cascadeable, communicates with 8 or 16 bits parallel,
  matches the speed of the Cylink chip, but is not out of
  fabrication.

  Rumors circulate that there is about an order of magnitude
  performance difference between some of these chips.

  These hardware chips improve exponentiation speed about 3 orders
  of magnitude over software implementation benchmarked on an Intel
  8086 family microcomputer.

Whitfield Diffie writes about both the Cylink and Sandia chips.  And
is quoted at  http://www.aci.net/kalliste/nukearse.htm.

Sandia had terrible luck with its public key chips.  

I reported SOME of the troubles to Electronic Engineering Times editor 
Loring Wirbel [http://techweb.cmp.com/eet/823/] on March 23, 1994.

        Dr. John Wisniewski was a supervisor at Sandia's Center for
        Radiation-hardened Microelectronics.  Wisniewski was a graduate
        student at Washington State University in about 1975.  I was a
        professor at WSU.

        Wisniewski knows all about the failing Sandia chips in the nuclear
        arsenal.  I took notes on February 13, 1993.  Wisniewski reviewed
        the problems again for me.

             1    No quality initiative.  Each chip lot had a different
                  process.
             2    Overall yield - 40-50%.  Down to 10% after packaging.
             3    Metalization problems.  No planarization.  No flow of
                  glass.  Couldn't use high temperature.  Step coverage
                  problems.  Layed down over tension.  100% field returns
                  over several years.
             4    Sandia would store lots of parts for replacements.

        Sandia management made the decision to place low yield parts in
        the nuclear arsenal.  Sandia must meet DOD schedules management
        reasoned.  Hundreds of millions spent on CRM.  Sandia must show
        productivity.

        Wisniewski told me that low yield chip test survivors are those   
        whichthe tests failed to detect failures.  Wisniewski will talk.  
        503-625-6408.  Wisniewski now works for Intel in Oregon.  Have 
        Wisniewski tell you about the fire in the CRM clean room!

Sandia supervisor Jerry Allen later told me it cost $300,000 each to remove
Sandia's failing chips at Pantex from a nuclear bomb.

NSA apparently is biased toward hardware implementations of cryptographic
and authentication algorithms.  As opposed to software implementation.

NSA representatives and Sandia management decided not to use a public
key authentication scheme for its CTBT seismic data authenticator because
of all of the problems with implementing public key algorithms.

But NSA surely has spent MUCH MONEY on public key chip implementations.

NSA is promoting its Clipper crypto chips as described at 
http://cpsr.org/dox/clipper.html.

And we get some information about technical specifications of NSA's Clipper
chip at http://www.us.net/softwar/http://www.us.net/softwar/clip.html

  Clipper Chip Information

  MYK-78 CLIPPER CHIP ENCRYPTION/DECRYPTION  ON A CHIP 

     1 micron double level metal CMOS technology 
     0.35 watts power 
     28 pin plastic leaded chip carrier (PLCC) package 
     Transistor to transistor logic (TTL) interface 
     Chip ID, family key and device unique key are installed at 
     programming. 
     Chip ID, family key and device unique key are installed at programming           
     facility and are completely transparent to the user.

Therefore, Under the provision of the Freedom of Information Act, 
5 USC 552, I am requesting access to: 

1  Copies of all invoices from

	A   AT&T
	B   Motorola
	C   IBM
	D  Sandia National Laboratories

to NSA for payments for developing ANY public key-related chips between 
January 1, 1980 and February 27, 1998.

2  Copies of all invoices to NSA from ANY corporation involved in 
development
of ANY Clipper chip-related hardware between January 1, 1980 and 
February 27, 1998.

The public has a right to know how much NSA spent on TRYING monoploize the 
crypto business.

If there are any fees for searching for, or copying, the records I have 
requested, please inform me before you fill the request.

As you know, the Act permits you to reduce or waive the fees when the 
release of the information is considered as "primarily benefiting the 
public."
  
I believe that this requests fits that category and I therefore ask that 
you waive any fees.

If all or any part of this request is denied, please cite the specific 
exemption(s) which you think justifies your refusal to release the information and inform me of your agency's administrative appeal procedures available to me under the law.

I would appreciate your handling this request as quickly as possible, and I 
look forward to hearing from you within 20 working days, as the law stipulates.

With respect to our current FOIA lawsuit, I feel that we should settle this
unfortunate matter.

I see from your biography at  http://www.nsa.gov:8080/ and
http://www.nsa.gov:8080/dirnsa/dirnsa.html that you are

         1979   Distinguished Graduate
         Master of Arts degree in National Security Affairs 
         Naval Postgraduate School 
         Monterey, California

One of my former M.S. and Ph.D students in Computer Science,
Ted Lewis, is currently the chairman of Computer Science at
Naval Postgraduate School [http://www.friction-free-economy.com/].

Small world.

But I think that this emphasizes that WE SHOULD all be on the same side.
Not engaged in a conflict in US federal court.  Or on Internet.

NSA attempts to withhold requested information are possibly unwise.  

In our wired world the aggrieved know what happened to them.
[http://www.aci.net/kalliste/speccoll.htm]. http://www.wpiran.org/,
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/impact/namir/namirm.html

And moderates in Iran, [http://persia.org/khatami/biography.html], appear 
want settlement too.

My family and I have been damaged by these crypto wars.

I ask you that consider fair settlement of damages caused by the National
Security Agency.

I cannot find your e-mail address on Internet.

Therefore I will forward the e-mail copy of this FOIA/settlement letter to 
Ray Kammer of NIST [http://www.nist.gov/], who along with the FBI 
[http://www.fbi.gov/, http://www.fbi.gov/fo/nyfo/nytwa.htmand], and NSA 
are trying to control the crypto business so that Kammer can possibly
forward an e-mail copy of the FOIA/Settlement letter to you.

Sincerely,

bill

William Payne
13015 Calle de Sandias
Albuquerque, NM 87111
505-292-7037 [I am not reading e-mail]




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 16:48:39 -0700 (PDT)
To: grassley 
Subject: Government misconduct
Message-ID: <355CD34C.75E8@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Friday 5/15/98 5:36 PM

Senator Grassley

I sent you a copy of the criminal complaint affidavit I sent to judge
Hug.

Our NSA lawsuit was mostly done as practice for an upcoming Privacy Act
violation/defamation lawsuit.

John Young kindly posted 

greene.htm         National Security Abuse: Greene v. McElroy       
April 8, 1998

I was NEVER interviewed by Sandia's Disciplinary Review Committee.

The charges made against me are FALSE.

I did nothing wrong.  http://jya.com/whpfiles.htm

Please help get this matter should be settled before it gets worse.

bill payne


Tuesday April 28, 1998 4:05 PM


Tom Spellman
Criminal Investigator
Inspector General
U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission
POB 18858
Washington, D.C. 20036-8858
202-663-4375
800-849-4230

Dear Mr. Spellman:

March 18, 1998 I phoned the Inspector General's hotline.

I filed a verbal criminal Privacy Act violation complaint with Wanda.

Wanda told me you were going to be the investigator.

Monday March 23 you phoned me to leave your office number.

You phoned several days later.

I told you about the false and defaming documents both Sandia National Laboratories and EEOC Phoenix employees Burtner and Larry Trujillo released without my written permission.

You asked that I send you a copy of these documents.

I mailed them to you the same day.

You told me that you had been reading about this case on  Internet at jya.com and aci.net/kalliste.

On April 3 I phoned to inform your office that a criminal complaint affidavit was filed with judge Hug on Monday April 1 naming those involve in the release of the documents and those who did not properly prosecute those involved..

I mailed a copy of the criminal complaint affidavit to you.

I have not heard from you either in writing or by phone since our initial contact.

Therefore, I ask that you write me and tell me about the status of your investigation.

And, of course, I feel that this unfortunate matter should be promptly settled.  I invite settlement negotiations of the civil aspects of this criminal release of documents.

Sincerely,



William H. Payne
13015 Calle de Sandias NE
Albuquerque, NM 87111





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSqncrs 
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 17:50:56 -0700 (PDT)
To: tcmay@got.net
Subject: Re:A 'Nobody' Out From 'Obscura'
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


In a message dated 5/15/98 7:33:42 PM Central Daylight Time,
mixmaster@remail.obscura.com writes:

<< > Obviously, this is a forgery, it isn't me, my guess is, it's our 'nobody'
-
 
 You're really out of your league here - lost and clueless.  
 
 Get a clue ... and get lost >>

You'd really like that wouldn't you!  Come on, admit it, I'm fun to have
around!  ;-)

Oh, and BTW:  You're failure to deny the (tacit) charge sure looks like a
(tacit) admission that it's true.  I nailed your ass (IMHO.)

Stan




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: vanessa_107@mailexcite.com
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 12:54:05 -0700 (PDT)
To: vanessa_107@mailexcite.com
Subject: Free Access to the Best Adult Site!!!
Message-ID: <199805154002DAA51087@post.finmin.lt>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 33606886@compuserve.com
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 22:16:31 -0700 (PDT)
To: 112032.306@compuserve.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <458734865234.GBB21218@compuserve.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



   
                   LET'S ALL CELEBRATE SEINFELD!


   Friends, every so often that rare show comes along that captures 
the essence and feeling of the decade. The 70's had 'All In The 
Family'. The 80's had 'Cheers'. And the 90's gave us... 'Seinfeld'!

   Well, we're certainly going to miss Jerry, George, Kramer and 
Elaine, but we can *still* hang on to a little bit of them: To 
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   Some of these clips will definitely surprise you!


   This video comes in VHS format and is a full 81 minutes in length.


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(*** These are NOT the same outtakes that were shown just before the 
final episode! ***)




Please note: This is a one-time mailing. You have already been placed on
             our remove list.








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 92640856@bellsouth.net
Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 07:22:55 -0700 (PDT)
To: 123458@qqeioweisssiiie.com
Subject: Ball Caps for Father's Day
Message-ID: <199234233019.GAA08423@qqeioweisssiiie.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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This includes postage and handling (USA only).
Send cash, check or Money Order (sorry no credit cards) to:

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No checks after 1 June 1998.  Not enough time for check to clear and hat to be
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: jim@mentat.com (Jim Gillogly)
Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 11:48:30 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Gunpowder taggant solution
Message-ID: <9805161844.AA05715@mentat.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Igor said:
> I think that the gunpowder taggants are not as bad as it seems at first
> sight. EVen if all gunpowders are sold with taggants, and if there is
> enough people wishing to defeat them, they can simply organize gunpowder
> mixing parties at gun shows. After several such parties, the taggants
> might become completely useless.

I'm woefully ignorant about reloading, but would this really work?
Would you mix your high-quality smokeless with Tim's homebrew black
powder, Toto's pebble-ground Canada Red Doobie Mix, and Bell's
stinkbomb components and take away the average?  Or are different types
of powder visually distinct enough or similar enough in effect to mix
and match effectively?

	Jim Gillogly




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 11:04:13 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com (Cypherpunks)
Subject: Gunpowder taggant solution
Message-ID: <199805161802.NAA21718@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text


I think that the gunpowder taggants are not as bad as it seems at first
sight. EVen if all gunpowders are sold with taggants, and if there is
enough people wishing to defeat them, they can simply organize gunpowder
mixing parties at gun shows. After several such parties, the taggants
might become completely useless.

	- Igor.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 12:56:19 -0700 (PDT)
To: jim@mentat.com (Jim Gillogly)
Subject: Re: Gunpowder taggant solution
In-Reply-To: <9805161844.AA05715@mentat.com>
Message-ID: <199805161952.OAA22508@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text


Jim Gillogly wrote:
> Igor said:
> > I think that the gunpowder taggants are not as bad as it seems at first
> > sight. EVen if all gunpowders are sold with taggants, and if there is
> > enough people wishing to defeat them, they can simply organize gunpowder
> > mixing parties at gun shows. After several such parties, the taggants
> > might become completely useless.
> 
> I'm woefully ignorant about reloading, but would this really work?
> Would you mix your high-quality smokeless with Tim's homebrew black
> powder, Toto's pebble-ground Canada Red Doobie Mix, and Bell's
> stinkbomb components and take away the average?  Or are different types
> of powder visually distinct enough or similar enough in effect to mix
> and match effectively?

I am perhaps even more ignorant, but I think that if you mix the same
kind of gunpowder (XYZ's BLAH # 123 gunpowder for example), then there
is no problem. But of course mixing different kinds may be asking for
trouble -- I have no clue about that.

Also, a gun owner could simply buy gnu powder in various places and
mix the batches.

	- Igor.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 13:20:52 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Idaho v. Horiuchi
Message-ID: <199805162020.QAA26245@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


We offer the U.S. District Court's decision in Idaho v. Horiuchi 
to dismiss state charges against the FBI sniper/killer of Vicki 
Weaver.

   http://jya.com/id-lth.htm

Grim reading of succinct description of the killing and gun
battle, and how the feds carefully protect their own from 
harm for punishing those foolish to challenge national might. 

The judge wisely notes his decision does not preclude
the possibility that other, federal, charges may be brought 
against Horiuchi and his supervisors. Some chance.

These are HTML conversions of scanned images from the 
Idaho District Court's impressive Web page at:

   http://www.id.uscourts.gov

All the documents filed in the case are online.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 14:16:34 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Gunpowder taggant solution
In-Reply-To: <9805161844.AA05715@mentat.com>
Message-ID: <199805162116.RAA14343@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


ATF published on May 1 its annual "1998 List of Explosive
Materials" subject to regulation under 18 U.S.C. Chapter 40,
Importation, Manufacture, Distribution and Storage of Explosive 
Materials:

   http://jya.com/atf050i98.txt

This list of ingredients might be used to mis-tag home 
mixes -- or ID the mixers' traces on implements.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 14:35:03 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Gunpowder taggant solution
In-Reply-To: <199805161952.OAA22508@manifold.algebra.com>
Message-ID: <199805162134.RAA13996@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Correct URL for the ATF list of explosive materials is:

   http://jya.com/atf050198.txt





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 20:57:55 -0700 (PDT)
To: jim@mentat.com (Jim Gillogly)
Subject: Re: Gunpowder taggant solution
In-Reply-To: <9805161844.AA05715@mentat.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 12:52 PM -0700 5/16/98, Igor Chudov @ home wrote:
>Jim Gillogly wrote:
>> Igor said:
>> > I think that the gunpowder taggants are not as bad as it seems at first
>> > sight. EVen if all gunpowders are sold with taggants, and if there is
>> > enough people wishing to defeat them, they can simply organize gunpowder
>> > mixing parties at gun shows. After several such parties, the taggants
>> > might become completely useless.
>>
>> I'm woefully ignorant about reloading, but would this really work?
>> Would you mix your high-quality smokeless with Tim's homebrew black
>> powder, Toto's pebble-ground Canada Red Doobie Mix, and Bell's
>> stinkbomb components and take away the average?  Or are different types
>> of powder visually distinct enough or similar enough in effect to mix
>> and match effectively?
>
>I am perhaps even more ignorant, but I think that if you mix the same
>kind of gunpowder (XYZ's BLAH # 123 gunpowder for example), then there
>is no problem. But of course mixing different kinds may be asking for
>trouble -- I have no clue about that.
>
>Also, a gun owner could simply buy gnu powder in various places and
>mix the batches.

I don't know the particular details of the "taggant" proposal (in terms of
which problem it's trying to solve). But here are some generally true
comments:

* For smokeless powders, i.e., _not_ black powder, the powders are
semi-visually recognizable. So Bullseye is noticeably different from Unique
and 2400, for example.

* However, smokeless powders are worthless for bombs. (Black powder is
almost worthless, by modern standards. Much easier to make your own
plastique.)

* If the goal  is to trace shootings, as oppose to bombings, then the focus
would be on smokeless powders. However, very few Bad Guys are into
reloading, so....

* The only way such a law can be useful is to crack down strongly on
ammunition resales, loans, gifts, etc. And a monstrous nightmare of
traceability, identity checks, etc.

(And what to do with those of us who have several cases (1000 rounds/case)
of various kinds of ammo? (I surmise dimbulbs like Diane Feinstein, Sarah
Brady, and Barbara Boxer think they can "outlaw" this old ammo, or cause a
gang banger in LA to shoot only freshly-purchased ammo.)

And so it goes.

--Tim May


"The tree of liberty must be watered periodically with the blood of
tyrants...."
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist              | black markets, collapse of governments.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 01:06:15 -0700 (PDT)
To: jim@mentat.com (Jim Gillogly)
Subject: Re: Gunpowder taggant solution
In-Reply-To: <9805161844.AA05715@mentat.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980516224219.008b7510@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 02:52 PM 5/16/98 -0500, Igor Chudov @ home wrote:
>> I'm woefully ignorant about reloading, but would this really work?
>> Would you mix your high-quality smokeless with Tim's homebrew black
>> powder, Toto's pebble-ground Canada Red Doobie Mix, 

	... and Bill's Delaware Punch black powder.
...
>Also, a gun owner could simply buy gnu powder in various places and
>mix the batches.

Is "gnu powder" available from the Free Explosives Foundation?


				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 21:32:15 -0700 (PDT)
To: tcmay@got.net (Tim May)
Subject: Re: Gunpowder taggant solution
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199805170431.XAA01850@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text


Tim May wrote:
> * For smokeless powders, i.e., _not_ black powder, the powders are
> semi-visually recognizable. So Bullseye is noticeably different from Unique
> and 2400, for example.

Is mixing them dangerous?

> * However, smokeless powders are worthless for bombs. (Black powder is
> almost worthless, by modern standards. Much easier to make your own
> plastique.)

I thought that plastic explosives were hard to make. Is that wrong?

	- Igor.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 07:22:36 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: More Tools for ILEA
Message-ID: <199805171422.KAA23491@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


NYT, May 17, 1998, on the Birmingham Summit:

G8 leaders spent considerable time discussing arrangements
for international cooperation in fighting cross-border crimes 
like money-laundering, computer fraud and arms smuggling.

In a communique, the leaders endrosed efforts to negotiate
a United Nations agreement to provide law enforcement
officials with more tools to fight international organized
crime.

They called for talks with the business community on an
international legal framework for obtaining computer data
as evidence in criminal cases, while preserving privacy
protections.

-----

A pointer to the communique or other G8 reports from this
session would be welcomed.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem 
Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 14:40:15 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown
Message-ID: <199805172139.RAB15707@www.video-collage.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

The original message was received at Sun, 17 May 1998 17:39:44 -0400 (EDT)
from uucp@localhost

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
eureka-sc.895438334.pldjlkahcagchhlcjjic-cypherpunks=toad.com@eureka.abc-web.com

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
... while talking to eureka.abc-web.com.:
>>> RCPT To:
<<< 553 sorry, your envelope sender is in my badmailfrom list (#5.7.1)
550 eureka-sc.895438334.pldjlkahcagchhlcjjic-cypherpunks=toad.com@eureka.abc-web.com... User unknown


Reporting-MTA: dns; www.video-collage.com
Arrival-Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 17:39:44 -0400 (EDT)

Final-Recipient: RFC822; eureka-sc.895438334.pldjlkahcagchhlcjjic-cypherpunks=toad.com@eureka.abc-web.com
Action: failed
Status: 5.1.1
Remote-MTA: DNS; eureka.abc-web.com
Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 553 sorry, your envelope sender is in my badmailfrom list (#5.7.1)
Last-Attempt-Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 17:39:45 -0400 (EDT)


To: eureka-sc.895438334.pldjlkahcagchhlcjjic-cypherpunks=toad.com@eureka.abc-web.com
Subject: Now we need your reply! (fwd)bc-web.com
From: cypherpunks@toad.Com
Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 16:36:27 -0500 (CDT)

eureka-help@eureka.abc-web.com wrote:
> From owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.Com  Sun May 17 16:24:16 1998
> Mailing-List: contact eureka-help@eureka.abc-web.com; run by ezmlm
> Date: 17 May 1998 20:52:14 -0000
> Message-ID: <895438334.21977.ezmlm@eureka.abc-web.com>
> From: eureka-help@eureka.abc-web.com
> To: cypherpunks@toad.com
> Reply-To: eureka-sc.895438334.pldjlkahcagchhlcjjic-cypherpunks=toad.com@eureka.abc-web.com
> Delivered-To: responder for eureka@eureka.abc-web.com
> Subject: Now we need your reply!
> Sender: owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.Com
> Precedence: bulk
> X-Mailing-List: cypherpunks@algebra.com
> X-List-Admin: ichudov@algebra.com
> X-Loop: cypherpunks@algebra.com
> 
> 
> We  have  received a  subscription  request  for the Eureka!
> Adult  Newsletter  to be  sent to  your  email  address.  To
> confirm this request,  please use the Reply function on your
> email program to send this email back to us.
> 
> If you do  not reply  to this email we will  assume you have
> changed your mind, or may have been the victim of a 'prank'.
> If you did not  enter your email address  at one of our web-
> sites then somebody else has done so for you. If you  do not
> wish to  receive the  newsletters just ignore this email. Or
> you can click below to  have your email  address permanently
> blocked  from ever  receiving  any of  our future  mailings.
> Block me -----> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/blockme.htm
> 
> - The Eureka! Adult Newsletter Team.
> 
> 
> The following lines identify the source of this subscription
> request,  including date/time,  IP number and  browser used.
> 
> HEADER1=13:52 Pacific Time Sunday May 17 1998
> HEADER2=199.203.203.194 Mozilla/3.0Gold (Win95; I)
> 






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 18:00:26 -0700 (PDT)
To: shamrock@cypherpunks.to (Lucky Green)
Subject: Re: Gunpowder taggant solution
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199805180056.TAA00480@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text


Lucky Green wrote:
> > I thought that plastic explosives were hard to make. Is that wrong?
> 
> Making plastic explosives is easy. No, I am not going to post the recipe.

If _I_ knew the recipe, I would have posted it, at least anonymously.

I respect you a lot, Lucky, but in this case you are behaving like
an asshole.

	- Igor.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: eureka-help@eureka.abc-web.com
Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 13:52:24 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Now we need your reply!
Message-ID: <895438334.21977.ezmlm@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


We  have  received a  subscription  request  for the Eureka!
Adult  Newsletter  to be  sent to  your  email  address.  To
confirm this request,  please use the Reply function on your
email program to send this email back to us.

If you do  not reply  to this email we will  assume you have
changed your mind, or may have been the victim of a 'prank'.
If you did not  enter your email address  at one of our web-
sites then somebody else has done so for you. If you  do not
wish to  receive the  newsletters just ignore this email. Or
you can click below to  have your email  address permanently
blocked  from ever  receiving  any of  our future  mailings.
Block me -----> http://eureka.abc-web.com/eureka/blockme.htm

- The Eureka! Adult Newsletter Team.


The following lines identify the source of this subscription
request,  including date/time,  IP number and  browser used.

HEADER1=13:52 Pacific Time Sunday May 17 1998
HEADER2=199.203.203.194 Mozilla/3.0Gold (Win95; I)




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "John C" 
Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 23:11:23 -0700 (PDT)
To: Yankee1428@aol.com
Subject: Newsletter
Message-ID: <19980518061036.7570.qmail@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I'm getting ready to put out another newsletter.  But I can only do it 
with ya'll's help.  if possible, could everyone send me an article or 
anything at all for the newsletter?

Thanks

John
pleontks@hotmail.com
http://members.tripod.com/~pleontks

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem 
Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 23:59:02 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown
Message-ID: <199805180658.XAA18423@netcomsv.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


The original message was received at Sun, 17 May 1998 23:58:55 -0700 (PDT)
from pax-ca11-11.ix.netcom.com [204.30.66.171]

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----


   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
... while talking to eureka.abc-web.com.:
>>> RCPT To:
<<< 553 sorry, your envelope sender is in my badmailfrom list (#5.7.1)
550 ... User unknown

   ----- Original message follows -----

Return-Path: 
Received: from ca07b8bl (pax-ca11-11.ix.netcom.com [204.30.66.171])
	by netcomsv.netcom.com (8.8.5-r-beta/8.8.5/(NETCOM v1.01)) with SMTP id XAA18419;
	Sun, 17 May 1998 23:58:55 -0700 (PDT)
Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980517235334.008e0210@popd.ix.netcom.com>
X-Sender: stewarts@popd.ix.netcom.com
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32)
Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 23:53:34 -0700
To: eureka-help@eureka.abc-web.com, abuse@abc-web.com
From: Bill Stewart 
Subject: unsubscribe
In-Reply-To: <895458516.7940.ezmlm@eureka.abc-web.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

unsubscribe
end
cypherpunks is a list with several hundred subscribers.
Some spammer has been trying to subscribe the list
to your service.  Earlier today I connected to the
web site and found that somebody else had
permanently removed most of the list aliases,
but you seem to be sending out this announcement anyway.

At 02:28 AM 5/18/98 -0000, you wrote:
>WELCOME TO EUREKA!
>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>Congratulations,  your free subscription to the Eureka!
>newsletter is now set up. We hope you enjoy every copy.
>As promised,  while you wait  for your first newsletter
>here are the links to  the FREE videos and FREE photos!
>
>BIENVENUE =C0 EUREKA!
>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>F=E9licitations,  votre abonnement  libre =E0  l'Eureka! le
>bulletin  est  maintenant install=E9.  Nous esp=E9rons  que
>vous  appr=E9ciez chaque copie.  Comme promis,  alors que
>vous attendez votre premier bulletin ici sont les liens
>aux videos LIBRES et aux photos LIBRES!
>
>WILLKOMMEN ZU EUREKA!
>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>Gl=FCckw=FCnsche,   Ihre  freie  Subskription  zum  Eureka!
>Rundschreiben wird jetzt oben eingestellt.  Wir hoffen,
>da=DF Sie jedes  Exemplar genie=DFen.  Wie, w=E4hrend Sie Ihr
>erstes Rundschreiben hier warten, sind die Links zu den
>FREIEN videos und zu den FREIEN Fotos versprochen!=20
>
>RECEPCI=D3N A EUREKA!
>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>Felicitaciones,  su  suscripci=F3n  libre  al  Eureka! el
>bolet=EDn  de   noticias  ahora  se  fija   para  arriba.
>Esperamos  que  usted  goce  de  cada  copia.  Seg=FAn lo
>prometido,  mientras que usted espera su primer bolet=EDn
>de noticias aqu=ED son las conexiones a los videos LIBRES
>y a las fotos LIBRES!
>
>BENVENUTO A EUREKA!
>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>Congratulazioni,   il  vostro  abbonamento   libero  al
>Eureka!  il bollettino  ora =E8 installato.  Speriamo che
>godiate ogni copia.  Come promesso, mentre aspettate il
>vostro primo bollettino qui sono i collegamenti ai vid-
>eos LIBERI ed alle foto LIBERE!
>
>BOA VINDA A EUREKA!
>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>Felicita=E7=F5es, sua subscri=E7=E3o livre ao Eureka! o boletim
>de not=EDcias =E9 ajustado  agora acima.  N=F3s esperamos que
>voc=EA aprec=EDe cada c=F3pia.  Como prometidas,  quando voc=EA
>esperar seu  primeiro boletim  de not=EDcias aqui  s=E3o as
>liga=E7=F5es aos videos LIVRES e =E0s fotos LIVRES!
>
>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>FREE hardcore videos ........ http://www.slutorama.com/
>FREE hardcore photos .... http://209.50.232.36/desires/
>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
>The following lines identify the source of this subscription
>request,  including date/time,  IP number and  browser used.
>
>
>





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Robin Nixon" 
Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 00:04:52 -0700 (PDT)
To: "Bill Stewart" 
Subject: Re: unsubscribe
Message-ID: <003501bd822a$89a26300$d3add9cf@webchat.earthlink.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Please give me the exact address to block - we already blocked all we know
of yours.

- Robin.

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Stewart 
To: eureka-help@eureka.abc-web.com ;
abuse@abc-web.com 
Date: Monday, May 18, 1998 12:05 AM
Subject: unsubscribe


>unsubscribe
>end
>cypherpunks is a list with several hundred subscribers.
>Some spammer has been trying to subscribe the list
>to your service.  Earlier today I connected to the
>web site and found that somebody else had
>permanently removed most of the list aliases,
>but you seem to be sending out this announcement anyway.
>
>At 02:28 AM 5/18/98 -0000, you wrote:
>>WELCOME TO EUREKA!
>>==================
>>Congratulations,  your free subscription to the Eureka!
>>newsletter is now set up. We hope you enjoy every copy.
>>As promised,  while you wait  for your first newsletter
>>here are the links to  the FREE videos and FREE photos!
>>
>>BIENVENUE Ŕ EUREKA!
>>===================
>>Félicitations,  votre abonnement  libre ŕ  l'Eureka! le
>>bulletin  est  maintenant installé.  Nous espérons  que
>>vous  appréciez chaque copie.  Comme promis,  alors que
>>vous attendez votre premier bulletin ici sont les liens
>>aux videos LIBRES et aux photos LIBRES!
>>
>>WILLKOMMEN ZU EUREKA!
>>=====================
>>Glückwünsche,   Ihre  freie  Subskription  zum  Eureka!
>>Rundschreiben wird jetzt oben eingestellt.  Wir hoffen,
>>daß Sie jedes  Exemplar genießen.  Wie, während Sie Ihr
>>erstes Rundschreiben hier warten, sind die Links zu den
>>FREIEN videos und zu den FREIEN Fotos versprochen!
>>
>>RECEPCIÓN A EUREKA!
>>===================
>>Felicitaciones,  su  suscripción  libre  al  Eureka! el
>>boletín  de   noticias  ahora  se  fija   para  arriba.
>>Esperamos  que  usted  goce  de  cada  copia.  Según lo
>>prometido,  mientras que usted espera su primer boletín
>>de noticias aquí son las conexiones a los videos LIBRES
>>y a las fotos LIBRES!
>>
>>BENVENUTO A EUREKA!
>>===================
>>Congratulazioni,   il  vostro  abbonamento   libero  al
>>Eureka!  il bollettino  ora č installato.  Speriamo che
>>godiate ogni copia.  Come promesso, mentre aspettate il
>>vostro primo bollettino qui sono i collegamenti ai vid-
>>eos LIBERI ed alle foto LIBERE!
>>
>>BOA VINDA A EUREKA!
>>===================
>>Felicitaçőes, sua subscriçăo livre ao Eureka! o boletim
>>de notícias é ajustado  agora acima.  Nós esperamos que
>>vocę aprecíe cada cópia.  Como prometidas,  quando vocę
>>esperar seu  primeiro boletim  de notícias aqui  săo as
>>ligaçőes aos videos LIVRES e ŕs fotos LIVRES!
>>
>>=======================================================
>>FREE hardcore videos ........ http://www.slutorama.com/
>>FREE hardcore photos .... http://209.50.232.36/desires/
>>=======================================================
>>
>>The following lines identify the source of this subscription
>>request,  including date/time,  IP number and  browser used.
>>
>>
>>





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: eureka-help@eureka.abc-web.com
Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 19:28:41 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Successful Subscription
Message-ID: <895458516.7940.ezmlm@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


WELCOME TO EUREKA!
==================
Congratulations,  your free subscription to the Eureka!
newsletter is now set up. We hope you enjoy every copy.
As promised,  while you wait  for your first newsletter
here are the links to  the FREE videos and FREE photos!

BIENVENUE Ŕ EUREKA!
===================
Félicitations,  votre abonnement  libre ŕ  l'Eureka! le
bulletin  est  maintenant installé.  Nous espérons  que
vous  appréciez chaque copie.  Comme promis,  alors que
vous attendez votre premier bulletin ici sont les liens
aux videos LIBRES et aux photos LIBRES!

WILLKOMMEN ZU EUREKA!
=====================
Glückwünsche,   Ihre  freie  Subskription  zum  Eureka!
Rundschreiben wird jetzt oben eingestellt.  Wir hoffen,
daß Sie jedes  Exemplar genießen.  Wie, während Sie Ihr
erstes Rundschreiben hier warten, sind die Links zu den
FREIEN videos und zu den FREIEN Fotos versprochen! 

RECEPCIÓN A EUREKA!
===================
Felicitaciones,  su  suscripción  libre  al  Eureka! el
boletín  de   noticias  ahora  se  fija   para  arriba.
Esperamos  que  usted  goce  de  cada  copia.  Según lo
prometido,  mientras que usted espera su primer boletín
de noticias aquí son las conexiones a los videos LIBRES
y a las fotos LIBRES!

BENVENUTO A EUREKA!
===================
Congratulazioni,   il  vostro  abbonamento   libero  al
Eureka!  il bollettino  ora č installato.  Speriamo che
godiate ogni copia.  Come promesso, mentre aspettate il
vostro primo bollettino qui sono i collegamenti ai vid-
eos LIBERI ed alle foto LIBERE!

BOA VINDA A EUREKA!
===================
Felicitaçőes, sua subscriçăo livre ao Eureka! o boletim
de notícias é ajustado  agora acima.  Nós esperamos que
vocę aprecíe cada cópia.  Como prometidas,  quando vocę
esperar seu  primeiro boletim  de notícias aqui  săo as
ligaçőes aos videos LIVRES e ŕs fotos LIVRES!

=======================================================
FREE hardcore videos ........ http://www.slutorama.com/
FREE hardcore photos .... http://209.50.232.36/desires/
=======================================================

The following lines identify the source of this subscription
request,  including date/time,  IP number and  browser used.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: eureka-help@eureka.abc-web.com
Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 20:02:30 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Successful Subscription
Message-ID: <895460543.21135.ezmlm@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


WELCOME TO EUREKA!
==================
Congratulations,  your free subscription to the Eureka!
newsletter is now set up. We hope you enjoy every copy.
As promised,  while you wait  for your first newsletter
here are the links to  the FREE videos and FREE photos!

BIENVENUE Ŕ EUREKA!
===================
Félicitations,  votre abonnement  libre ŕ  l'Eureka! le
bulletin  est  maintenant installé.  Nous espérons  que
vous  appréciez chaque copie.  Comme promis,  alors que
vous attendez votre premier bulletin ici sont les liens
aux videos LIBRES et aux photos LIBRES!

WILLKOMMEN ZU EUREKA!
=====================
Glückwünsche,   Ihre  freie  Subskription  zum  Eureka!
Rundschreiben wird jetzt oben eingestellt.  Wir hoffen,
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RECEPCIÓN A EUREKA!
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de noticias aquí son las conexiones a los videos LIBRES
y a las fotos LIBRES!

BENVENUTO A EUREKA!
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godiate ogni copia.  Come promesso, mentre aspettate il
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eos LIBERI ed alle foto LIBERE!

BOA VINDA A EUREKA!
===================
Felicitaçőes, sua subscriçăo livre ao Eureka! o boletim
de notícias é ajustado  agora acima.  Nós esperamos que
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=======================================================
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FREE hardcore photos .... http://209.50.232.36/desires/
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Lucky Green 
Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 17:43:48 -0700 (PDT)
To: "Igor Chudov @ home" 
Subject: Re: Gunpowder taggant solution
In-Reply-To: <199805170431.XAA01850@manifold.algebra.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Sat, 16 May 1998, Igor Chudov @ home wrote:

> Tim May wrote:
> > * For smokeless powders, i.e., _not_ black powder, the powders are
> > semi-visually recognizable. So Bullseye is noticeably different from Unique
> > and 2400, for example.
> 
> Is mixing them dangerous?

Taggants in gun powder are inherently dangerous. They frequently cause a
loss of stability of the powder.
> > * However, smokeless powders are worthless for bombs. (Black powder is
> > almost worthless, by modern standards. Much easier to make your own
> > plastique.)
> 
> I thought that plastic explosives were hard to make. Is that wrong?

Making plastic explosives is easy. No, I am not going to post the recipe.

-- Lucky Green  PGP v5 encrypted email preferred.
   "Tonga? Where the hell is Tonga? They have Cypherpunks there?"





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: eureka-help@eureka.abc-web.com
Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 21:07:55 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Successful Subscription
Message-ID: <895464469.18392.ezmlm@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


WELCOME TO EUREKA!
==================
Congratulations,  your free subscription to the Eureka!
newsletter is now set up. We hope you enjoy every copy.
As promised,  while you wait  for your first newsletter
here are the links to  the FREE videos and FREE photos!

BIENVENUE Ŕ EUREKA!
===================
Félicitations,  votre abonnement  libre ŕ  l'Eureka! le
bulletin  est  maintenant installé.  Nous espérons  que
vous  appréciez chaque copie.  Comme promis,  alors que
vous attendez votre premier bulletin ici sont les liens
aux videos LIBRES et aux photos LIBRES!

WILLKOMMEN ZU EUREKA!
=====================
Glückwünsche,   Ihre  freie  Subskription  zum  Eureka!
Rundschreiben wird jetzt oben eingestellt.  Wir hoffen,
daß Sie jedes  Exemplar genießen.  Wie, während Sie Ihr
erstes Rundschreiben hier warten, sind die Links zu den
FREIEN videos und zu den FREIEN Fotos versprochen! 

RECEPCIÓN A EUREKA!
===================
Felicitaciones,  su  suscripción  libre  al  Eureka! el
boletín  de   noticias  ahora  se  fija   para  arriba.
Esperamos  que  usted  goce  de  cada  copia.  Según lo
prometido,  mientras que usted espera su primer boletín
de noticias aquí son las conexiones a los videos LIBRES
y a las fotos LIBRES!

BENVENUTO A EUREKA!
===================
Congratulazioni,   il  vostro  abbonamento   libero  al
Eureka!  il bollettino  ora č installato.  Speriamo che
godiate ogni copia.  Come promesso, mentre aspettate il
vostro primo bollettino qui sono i collegamenti ai vid-
eos LIBERI ed alle foto LIBERE!

BOA VINDA A EUREKA!
===================
Felicitaçőes, sua subscriçăo livre ao Eureka! o boletim
de notícias é ajustado  agora acima.  Nós esperamos que
vocę aprecíe cada cópia.  Como prometidas,  quando vocę
esperar seu  primeiro boletim  de notícias aqui  săo as
ligaçőes aos videos LIVRES e ŕs fotos LIVRES!

=======================================================
FREE hardcore videos ........ http://www.slutorama.com/
FREE hardcore photos .... http://209.50.232.36/desires/
=======================================================

The following lines identify the source of this subscription
request,  including date/time,  IP number and  browser used.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Brown, R Ken" 
Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 02:39:58 -0700 (PDT)
To: ichudov@algebra.com>
Subject: RE: Gunpowder taggant solution
Message-ID: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE20279C0@MSX11002>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


> ichudov@algebra.com[SMTP:ichudov@algebra.com]  wrote: 
> 
> Also, a gun owner could simply buy gnu powder in various places and
> mix the batches.

We call it Wildebeeste Powder in this neck of the woods.

If you mix Blue Wildebeeste and Black Wildebeeste you get a virtual
Serengeti. There's a good one in the Natural History Museum in
Kensington. Just next to the Horese Evolution quiz.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Heather Johnson" <88769500@27850.com>
Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 04:49:43 -0700 (PDT)
To: Casey631@hotmail.com
Subject: I heard you wanted my picture..
Message-ID: <199805180718.HAA25658@mailroot.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





Here it is!










From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 04:28:05 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Crypto Under Digital Copyright Act
Message-ID: <199805181127.HAA16402@camel8.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Congressional Record: May 15, 1998 (Senate)

                    DIGITAL MILLENNIUM COPYRIGHT ACT

  Mr. KYL. Mr. President, I rise today to speak about a section in the
Digital Millennium Copyright Act that I am particularly proud of, and
that is the law enforcement exception in the bill. At the Judiciary
Committee markup, Senator Grassley and I, along with the assistance of
Chairman Hatch and Senator Ashcroft worked to strengthen the law
enforcement exception in the bill. We received input on the language
from the copyright community and the administration: the National
Security Agency (NSA), the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), the
Departments of Commerce and Justice, and the Office of Management and
Budget (OMB).

  The law enforcement exception ensures that the government continues
to have access to current and future technologies to assist in their
investigative, protective, or intelligence activities. I am concerned
that the tools and resources of our intelligence and law enforcement
communities are preserved--and more importantly, not limited, by
passage of S. 2037. Under that bill, a company who contracts with the
government can continue to develop encryption/decryption devices under
that contract, without having to worry about criminal penalties.

  Because much of our leading technologies come from the private
sector, the government needs to have access to this vital resource for
intelligence and law enforcement purposes.

  The law enforcement exception recognizes that oftentimes governmental
agencies work with non-governmental entities--companies, in order to
have access to and develop cutting edge technologies and devices. Such
conduct should not be prohibited or impeded by this copyright
legislation.

                          ____________________

Digital Millenium Copyright Act:

   http://jya.com/s2037.txt  (162K)




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: online@cyper-west.com (OnLine Mortgage Corp.)
Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 11:14:29 -0700 (PDT)
To: online@cyper-west.com
Subject: Home Loans on the Net
Message-ID: <199805181264EAA42243@post.cyber-west.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


With intersest rates so low, you might be intersted in obtaining a new Home Loan.

Does your income not quite cover all your needs? Are you left wanting for business needs, home needs, autos, travel, or for any other purpose or do you just want to get out of DEBT? 

Just complete our EASY APPLICATION (http://www.mortgageweb.com/onlea.htm) and we will do a finanical analysis to see how much money you can save each month. Or how much money you can get to be used for any purpose.

You can borrow money for:

Debt Consolidation 
Autos & Boats
Starting a Business
Medical Expenses
Anything you might need

You alone decide how much to borrow and how long to repay the loan. In fact may programs allow you to repay early with no penalty.

So APPLY NOW, you have nothing to lose. In fact if you act within the next 48 hours we will include a free pre-paid calling card with your loan. (http://www.mortgageweb.com/onlea.htm) 

OnLine Mortgage Corporation

************************************************************************************************
We are responsible e-mailers and received information that you might be interested in this program. If this was done in error please accept our appology and hit reply and enter "remove in the heading".
**************************************************************************************************






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Sunder 
Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 09:53:47 -0700 (PDT)
To: Igor Chudov 
Subject: Re: Gunpowder taggant solution
In-Reply-To: <199805161952.OAA22508@manifold.algebra.com>
Message-ID: <3560664D.A697C23A@brainlink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Igor Chudov @ home wrote:

> Also, a gun owner could simply buy gnu powder in various places and
> mix the batches.

Ayeee!  Just what we needed!  Free Software GnuPowder. :) From the folx
who broght you Emacs. :)

(sorry had to be done!)

-- 

=====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos==============
.+.^.+.|  Ray Arachelian    |Prying open my 3rd eye.  So good to see |./|\.
..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were      |/\|/\
<--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run  |\/|\/
../|\..| "A toast to Odin,  |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/.
.+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were....            |.....
======================= http://www.sundernet.com ==========================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 10:37:57 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: German Phone Cards Hacked
Message-ID: <199805181737.NAA03845@camel8.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Forwarded from Europe:

May 18, 1998

Telephone card fraud in the millions of dollars.

Hackers from the Netherlands have inundated the German market with illegally
recharged telephone cards, causing losses in the several millions of marks
(millions of dollars), stated the weekly Focus, due out Monday.

In breaking the telephone cards' code, the hackers succeeded in recharging
cards emptied of their credit.

The German association of tobacconist wholesalers assesses losses at 60
million marks (33 million dollars), reports Focus.

The con men bought used cards by the thousands from collectors. As a
result, their intitial price of five pfenning (2.7 cents) per card quickly
rose to one mark (55 cents).

According to experts cited by Focus, the recharged cards, which the
pirates resold at a lesser or equivalent price, are impossible to
distinguish from those purchased legitimately.

Card producers intend to stop this illegal commerce thanks to a new software
program allowing used cards to be electronically marked, the weekly believes.

[Translation by DN]

----------

Escroquerie de plusieurs millions de dollars par cartes téléphoniques

Des pirates informatiques néerlandais ont inondé le marché allemand avec
des cartes téléphoniques rechargées illégalement, causant un préjudice
de plusieurs millions de marks (plusieurs millions de dollars), affirme
l'hebdomadaire Focus ŕ paraître lundi.

En forçant le systčme de codage des cartes téléphoniques, les pirates
ont réussi ŕ recharger des cartes vidées de leurs unités.

L'association allemande des grossistes et débitants de tabac chiffre le
préjudice ŕ 60 millions de marks (33 millions de dollars), rapporte
Focus.

Les escrocs achetaient des cartes usagées par milliers auprčs de
collectionneurs. Leur prix initial de cinq pfennig (2,7 cents) par carte
est de ce fait rapidement monté ŕ prčs d'un mark (55 cents).

Selon des experts cités par Focus, les cartes rechargées, que les
pirates revendaient ŕ un moindre prix ou au męme prix, sont impossibles
ŕ différencier de celles dűment achetées.

Les fabricants de cartes entendent stopper ce commerce illégal grâce ŕ
un nouveau programme informatique (software) permettant de marquer
électroniquement les cartes usagées, croit savoir l'hebdomadaire.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 13:23:34 -0700 (PDT)
To: lawya@lucs-01.novell.leeds.ac.uk
Subject: National Atomic Museum
Message-ID: <35609809.407F@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Monday 5/18/98 1:37 PM

John Young
J Orlin Grabbe

Morales http://jya.com/whpfiles.htm and I had lunch at Wendy's at 11:30.

I read drafts of Morales upcoming filings.  And discussed legal
strategies.

After lunch, I went to the National Atomic Museum on Kirtland AFB.

The museum is across the street from Sandia.

They now charge for admission ... but I made it in for $1 as a senior
citizen.

The museum main hall tour is laid out by history date of radiation.

The self-guided tour gets interesting about the time of Hahn,
Heisenberg,
Fermi, Lawrence, ...  Then it gets into THE BOMB.

Lots of picture of the '50 NTS site explosions.  But as we know from
Carole Gallagher book's American Ground Zero a DOE employee is quoted
"Those Mormons don't give a shit about radiation."

After touring the main hall, I went back to a wall display near the
bathrooms.

There they have a rather-large display on LANL mathematician Stanislas
Ulam.

Ulam's thing was Monte Carlo computations.  These use random or
pseudorandom
numbers.

Ted Lewis told me that they now use the gfsr at LANL for its nuclear
bomb 
simulations.

  http://av.yahoo.com/bin/query?p=gfsr&hc=0&hs=0 

But this is how the mess got started.  Me making contact  with a
Japanese 
professor who developed a new method for selecting the binary seed
matrix
for the gfsr.

I went into the gift shop.

I bought John Young a refrigerator magnet PROUDLY proclaiming

	1945 509th COMPOSITE GROUP 1995

           FIRST ATOMIC BOMBARDMENT

             50th ANNIVERSARY

and Orlin a colorful red and orange postcard which reads on the back

	                       Trinity
	On July 16, 1945 at 5:30 AM, at a site code-named trinity,
	approximately 130 miles south of Albuquerque on White
	Sands Missile Range, the world's first nuclear device was
	exploded.  The explosion, equal to 20,000 tons of TNT, was
	was seen and heard over the entire state of New Mexico.

Great article, Orlin. http://www.aci.net/kalliste/speccoll.htm
Madsen did good too.  http://caq.com/cryptogate

Let's all hope Congress, unlike the bureaucrats, see the merits of
getting 
the requested documents posted on Internet.  And on to settlement of
this 
UNFORTUNATE matter.

Later
bill






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 08:05:24 -0700 (PDT)
To: ajsullivan@att.com
Subject: linux-ipsec: ANNOUNCE:  FreeS/WAN IPSEC & IKE version 0.8 released & useful!
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980518152708.008bdd30@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Forwarded from linux-ipsec@clinet.fi - posted by Hugh Daniel 
---------------------------------------------------------


  I would like to announce for the FreeS/WAN software team that they
now have a freeswan-0.8 release available for download from the
FreeS/WAN home page at:
	  http://www.xs4all.nl/~freeswan

  The 0.8 (and target 1.0 in June) runs only in a VPN (tunnel) mode,
protecting and encrypting net traffic for a subnet behind the SG.
This setup is called a SG for Security Gateway.  We plan on
implementing the rest of the IPSEC and IKE draft standards in our 2.0
release later this summer for the 2.1.xxx and 2.2.xx series Linux
kernels.

  There is some useful documentation for the current FreeS/WAN done by
Kai Martius at:
    http://www.imib.med.tu-dresden.de/imib/Internet/index.html

  The 0.8 release has been tested extensively in the hand keyed
ESP-3DES-HMAC-MD5-96 tunnel mode and is quite robust.  On a 150Mhz 586
Clone PC TCP throughput is over 320 Kbytes/second sustained as
measured by netperf.
  The IKE daemon pluto has been tested only a very little and
sometimes works and sometimes does not.  It will work for the simple
VPN case before 1.0.

  Feedback, new features, documentation, scripts and bug fixes &
reports are especially useful in the next few weeks before we start in
on the 0.9x series of release working up to a stable 1.0 release in
June.  Don't wait for the last minute to submit that neat feature or
bug fix, as we might not have time to include it!

  If you have questions about the project please see our home page
where you will find a mail list, list archives, FTP directory's etc.
  Thanks to everyone who made this release possible, but mostly the
people who coded it up!

  Please post all bugs, fixes, code etc. to the public email list at
.

		||ugh Daniel
		hugh@toad.com
			Systems Testing & Project mis-Management
			The Linux FreeS/WAN Project
			http://www.xs4all.nl/~freeswan







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: jim@mentat.com (Jim Gillogly)
Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 16:23:06 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: GFSR initialization? [Re: National Atomic Museum]
Message-ID: <9805182322.AA27897@mentat.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


[Bill Payne's's mailing list pruned back to cypherpunks only]
> Ted Lewis told me that they now use the gfsr at LANL for its nuclear
> bomb=20
> simulations.
> 
>   http://av.yahoo.com/bin/query?p=3Dgfsr&hc=3D0&hs=3D0=20
> 
> But this is how the mess got started.  Me making contact  with a
> Japanese=20
> professor who developed a new method for selecting the binary seed
> matrix
> for the gfsr.

Is that to speed it up, so you don't have to initialize it by spinning
through a bunch of initial iterations?  Turns out there's a time-memory
tradeoff, where if you do a recursion relationship on where you want it
to start, you can set it up in log2 time and come out with the same
starting point you would have by spinning: the recursion equations
cancel nicely and it boils down to something manageable.  I think other
people have initialized it with another PRNG with good success.

I  that's not classified, since I came up with the recursion
shortly after the Lewis & Payne paper on GFSR came out -- JACM, wasn't
it?  I never got around to writing it up.

	Jim Gillogly
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: wopaulai91@yahoo.com
Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 19:14:18 -0700 (PDT)
To: wopaulai91@yahoo.com
Subject: Information  you  requested!
Message-ID: <199805182121RAA19197@us.ibm.net.bmc.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Thank you for your interest in our training Course.                             

Success Courses  offers an extensive Video Tape training course in "How to Collect Judicial Judgments".


If you are like many people, you are not even sure what a Judicial Judgment is and why processing Judicial Judgments can earn you very substantial income. 


If you ever sue a company or a person and you win then you will have a Judicial Judgment against them.  You are happy you won but you will soon find out the shocking fact:  "Its now up to you to collect on the Judgment".  The court does not require the loser to pay you.  The court will not even help you.  You must trace the loser down,  find their assets,  their employment, bank accounts,  real estate,  stocks and bonds,  etc.   Very few people know how to find these assets or what to do when they are found.  The result is that millions of Judgments are just sitting in files and being forgotten.

"In 79% of the cases the winner of a Judgment never sees a dime."

The non-payment of  judicial debt has grown to epidemic proportions.  Right now in the United States there is between  200 and 300 billion dollars of uncollected Judicial Judgment debt.  For every Judgment that is paid,  5 more Judgments take its place.

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With our first hand experience we have built a course which teaches you how to start your business in this new unknown and exciting field of  processing Judicial Judgments.

By following the steps laid out in our course and with reasonable effort you can  become very successful in the processing of Judicial Judgments.

The income potential is substantial in this profession.  We have associates who have taken our course and are now working full time making $96,000.00 to  over $200,000.00 per year.  Part time associates are earning between $24,000.00 and $100,000.00 per year.   Some choose to operate out of their home and work by themselves.  Others build a sizable organization of 15 to 25 people in attractive business offices.


Today Success Courses  and our associates have over 632 million dollars in Judicial Judgments that we are currently processing.  Of this 632 million,  36 million is in the form of joint ventures between our firm  and our associates.  Joint ventures are where we make our  money.  We only break even when our course is purchased.  We make a 12% margin on the reports we supply to our associates.   Our reporting capability is so extensive that government agencies,  police officers,  attorneys,  credit agencies etc.  all come to us for reports.


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One of the benefits of working in this field is that you are not under any kind of  time frame.  If you decide to take off for a month on vacation then go.  The Judgments you are working on will be there when you return.   The Judgments are still in force,  they do not disappear.



The way we train you is non-confrontational. You use your computer and telephone to do most of the processing. You never confront the debtor.  The debtor doesn't know who you are.  You are not a collection agency.


Simply stated the steps to successful Judicial Processing are as follows: 


· Mail our recommended letter to companies and individuals with Judicial Judgments.  (We train you how to find out who to write to)


· 8% to 11% of the firms and people you write will call you and ask for your help.  They call you,  you don't call them unless you want to.


· You send them an agreement (supplied in the course) to sign which splits every dollar you collect 50% to you and 50% to them.  This applies no matter if the judgment is for $2,000.00 or $2,000,000.00. 


· You then go on-line to our computers to find the debtor and their assets.  We offer over 120 powerful reports to assist you.  They range from credit reports from all three credit bureaus,  to bank account locates,  employment locates,  skip traces and locating stocks and bonds,  etc.  The prices of our reports are very low.  Typically 1/2 to 1/3 of what other firms charge.   For example we charge $6.00 for an individuals credit report when some other companies charge $25.00.


· Once you find the debtor and their assets you file garnishments and liens on the assets you have located.  (Standard fill in the blanks  forms are included in the course)


· When you receive the assets you keep 50% and  send 50% to the original Judgment holder.


· Once the Judgment is fully paid you mail a Satisfaction of Judgment to the court. (Included in the course)

Quote's  from several of our students:


Thomas in area code 516 writes us:  "I just wanted to drop you a short note thanking you for your excellent course.  My first week,  part time,  will net me 3,700.00 dollars.  Your professionalism in both the manual and the video opened doors for me in the future.  There's no stopping me now.  As of February 3rd, 1995, Thomas states he has over $8,500,000 worth of judgments he is working on.


After only having this course for four months,  Larry S. in area code 314  stated to us:  "I am now making $2,000.00 per week and expect this to grow to twice this amount within the next year.  I am having a ball.  I have over $250,000 in judgments I am collecting on now."


After having our course for 7 months Larry S. in 314 stated "I am now making $12,000.00 per month and have approximately $500,000.00  in judgments I am   collecting on.  Looks like I will have to hire someone to help out"


Marshal in area code 407 states to us  "I feel bad,   you only charged me $189.00 for this course and it is a gold mine. I  have added 3 full time people to help  me after only having your course for 5 months"


If the above sounds interesting to you then its time for you to talk to a real live human being,  no cost or obligation on your part.


Please call us at Area Code 2 5 3 then 8 6 3--5 5 2 2.  We have Customer Support staff available to you from 8:00AM to 7:00PM (Pacific Time) Monday through Saturday.  Closed Sunday.  If you call this number you can talk to one of our experienced Customer Support personnel. They can answer any questions you may have - with no obligation. Sometimes we run special pricing on our courses and combinations of courses. When you call our  Customer Support line they can let you know of any specials we may be running. If you like what you read and hear about our courses, then the Customer Support person can work with you to place your order. We are very low key. We merely give you the facts and you can then decide if you want to work with us or not.


>From the above information and actual results you can see why we can state the following:


With our course you can  own your own successful business.  A business which earns you substantial income now and one which could be sold in 3-5 years,  paying you enough to retire on and travel the world.  A business which is extremely interesting to be in.  A Business in which every day is new and exciting.  None of your days will be hum drum.  Your brain is challenged.   A business which protects you from Corporate downsizing.  A business which you can start part time from your home and later,  if you so desire,  you can work in full time.  A business which is your ticket to freedom from others telling you what to do.  A business which lets you control your own destiny.  Our training has made this happen for many others already.   Make it happen for you!

Thank you for your time and interest.





 24mx58.10gr.1




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Lucky Green 
Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 13:31:35 -0700 (PDT)
To: John Young 
Subject: Re: Crypto Under Digital Copyright Act
In-Reply-To: <199805181127.HAA16402@camel8.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Mon, 18 May 1998, John Young wrote:

> Congressional Record: May 15, 1998 (Senate)
> 
>                     DIGITAL MILLENNIUM COPYRIGHT ACT
> 
>   Mr. KYL. Mr. President, I rise today to speak about a section in the
> Digital Millennium Copyright Act that I am particularly proud of, and
> that is the law enforcement exception in the bill.

Yup. Reverse engineer a cipher, go to jail. Seems future security analysis
of ciphers will have to be released anonymously from Tonga.

-- Lucky Green  PGP v5 encrypted email preferred.
   "Tonga? Where the hell is Tonga? They have Cypherpunks there?"





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 9086097@6urt6ijratr.com
Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 01:26:20 -0700 (PDT)
To: .WHUD
Subject: 40 MILLION EMAIL ADDRESSES CHEAP PRICE!!!
Message-ID: <199805190826.BAA22562@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: www@dejanews.com
Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 02:40:00 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Deja News Registration Confirmation
Message-ID: <199805190939.EAA21236@x5.dejanews.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Welcome to My Deja News!

You have registered for My Deja News using the email address:
cypherpunks@toad.com. If you did not register for My Deja News, 
please ignore this message.

To enable you to post messages on Deja News, we must confirm 
your email address. This allows us to minimize "spam" and other
problems. To confirm your email address, visit the following Web
page:

http://www.dejanews.com/ec.xp/Z9601d5cf485376063bac83214984f531fd6293a

If your email software supports it, you can simply click on the
link. Since this Web page address (URL) is quite lengthy, however,
you may find it necessary to copy the entire URL and paste it into
your Web browser.

As a reminder, your username is bsphynx and your password 
is sphynx.  You may wish to keep this email to refer to in 
case you forget.

If you have any questions about My Deja News, please refer to the
Help page at http://www.dejanews.com/help/help_regstr.shtml

Thanks,
Deja News




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 04:39:44 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: German Phone Cards Hacked
In-Reply-To: <199805181737.NAA03845@camel8.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <199805191139.HAA15263@camel8.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


See English version of German article yesterday on Dutch 
hack of phone cards:

   http://jya.com/card-less.htm






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 04:57:57 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: G8 on High Tech Crime
Message-ID: <199805191157.HAA20483@camel8.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Ross Anderson and Ulf Möller have provided URLs
for the recent communique from the Brimingham G8 
summit on "principles and action plan" for fighting 
high tech crime:

   http://jya.com/g8crime.htm




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adults Only 
Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 20:49:29 -0700 (PDT)
To: adult4@xxxmail.net
Subject: http://www.scarlett.net/starter
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980519091310.00a09b80@208.15.12.231>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


http://www.scarlett.net/starter

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http://www.scarlett.net 
http://www.scarlett.net 








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: mscompia@microsoft.com
Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 10:46:34 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Information From The Microsoft Personal Information Center
Message-ID: <0b3382445171358UPIMSSMTPSYS08@msn.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Here is your password you requested from the Microsoft Personal Information Center at http://register.microsoft.com/regwiz/personalinfo.asp.

Password: writecode

If you continue to have access problems or want to report other issues, please contact us through the Write Us button at the top of any Microsoft page.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "L-Soft list server at America Online (1.8c)"             
Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 08:05:54 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Rejected posting to CYBERIA-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
Message-ID: <199805191505.IAA03014@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


You  are  not  authorized  to  send  mail  to  the  CYBERIA-L  list  from  your
cypherpunks@TOAD.COM account. You might be authorized  to send to the list from
another of  your accounts,  or perhaps  when using  another mail  program which
generates slightly  different addresses, but  LISTSERV has no way  to associate
this other account or address with yours. If you need assistance or if you have
any question  regarding the policy  of the  CYBERIA-L list, please  contact the
list owners: CYBERIA-L-request@LISTSERV.AOL.COM.

------------------------ Rejected message (36 lines) --------------------------
Received: from netcomsv.netcom.com (uucp1-b.netcom.com [163.179.3.1])
	  by listserv.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.8)
	  with ESMTP id LAA20089 for ;
	  Tue, 19 May 1998 11:05:16 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from ca07b8bl (pax-ca14-19.ix.netcom.com [204.31.233.83])
	by netcomsv.netcom.com (8.8.5-r-beta/8.8.5/(NETCOM v1.01)) with SMTP id IAA23186;
	Tue, 19 May 1998 08:05:12 -0700 (PDT)
Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980518104054.008bd710@popd.ix.netcom.com>
X-Sender: stewarts@popd.ix.netcom.com (Unverified)
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32)
Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 10:40:54 -0700
To: Law & Policy of Computer Communications              ,
        CYBERIA-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
From: Bill Stewart 
Subject: Re: regulating speech (was: DNS)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980515115128.34271d5c@pop.radix.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 12:41 PM 5/15/98 -0400, Donald Weightman wrote:
>I wonder if  LEBRON V. AMTRAK is relevant here.  There the Court extended
>the First Amendment to corporations created by, and under the control of,
>the government in the case of an artist who argued successfully that Amtrak
>had been wrong to reject his billboard display because of its political
>message.
>
>The devil is in the details -- of InterNIC's creation and operation, vs.
>Amtrak's.

The Supreme Court just decided that Tax-funded radio/tv stations
don't have to include all candidates for an office in their debates
if they don't feel like it, based on First Amendment reasons.
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 08:42:59 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: NSA & y2k
Message-ID: <199805191542.LAA10584@panix2.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Forwarding...
---guy

>  From owner-ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com Tue May 19 10:29:02 1998
>  Subject: IP: NSA concerns could hamper DOD Y2K fix

Source:  Federal Computer Week
http://www.fcw.com/pubs/fcw/1998/0518/fcw-frontnsa-5-18-1998.html

 NSA concerns could hamper DOD Y2K fix

 BY BOB BREWIN (antenna@fcw.com)
 HEATHER HARRELD (heather@fcw.com)
 DANIEL M. VERTON (dan_verton@fcw.com)

 The National Security Agency has slapped a security blanket on the
 Pentagon's efforts to fix the Year 2000 millennium bug, which could further
 slow the Defense Department's already-behind-schedule Year 2000 fixes.

 NSA has determined that all information detailing DOD's computers and its
 efforts to fix the Year 2000 problem are a "national security interest" and
 "highly sensitive." As a result, the Pentagon has cut off the military
services
 and DOD project offices from the Defense Integrated Support Tool (DIST)
 database, which the Defense Information Systems Agency maintains to
 provide details on all DOD computer systems and interfaces for use in
 planning and deployment.

 DIST, according to DISA, is a database of some 9,000 DOD systems that
 the department uses to track such key areas as system interfaces, compliance
 with high-priority standards, interoperability testing, consolidation
goals and
 Year 2000-compliance planning. DIST was seen as critical to the Year 2000
 problem because it provides a central source of information about interfaces
 between different DOD systems, which is a chief concern of Year 2000
 conversion efforts.

 DOD began using DIST to track Year 2000 compliance in August 1996, and
 a Dec. 19, 1997, memo from the Office of the Secretary of Defense to DOD
 chief information officers identified DIST as the "central, authoritative
 database for tracking resolution of the Year 2000-related problems for
 systems throughout the department."

 That aggregation of extensive details about Year 2000 problems with DOD
 systems poses a threat to national security, according to NSA.

 "The DOD's Y2K conversion effort is a national security interest," NSA
 reported in a statement supplied to FCW. "All information detailing these
 information systems and the progress being made toward their conversions is
 considered to be highly sensitive."

 DOD is not trying to cover up information about its Year 2000 efforts, a
 DOD spokeswoman said. "We couldn't hide what we're doing if we wanted
 to, and we certainly don't want to," she said. "The idea is to move these
fixes
 along at the fastest possible clip but not to jeopardize other security
measures
 as we do it."

 While industry and service sources said they could understand NSA's security
 concerns, they said the classification could hobble the Pentagon's
 already-delayed Year 2000 remediation efforts. One former high-ranking
 DOD official described the classification issue as symptomatic of what he
 called the Pentagon's "gross mismanagement" of Year 2000 issues.

[snip of 90 lines]

**********************************************
To subscribe or unsubscribe, email:
     majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com
with the message:
     (un)subscribe ignition-point email@address
**********************************************
www.telepath.com/believer
**********************************************





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSqncrs 
Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 11:11:00 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: AOL Top Story
Message-ID: <8688e6ed.3561cae5@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hackers Tell About Security Woes

WASHINGTON (AP) - Computer hackers told Congress today that computer security
is so lax, they could disable the entire Internet in a half-hour. Members of
the hacker think-tank called ``The Loft,'' who were praised by senators for
calling attention to the problems of computer security, also warned that they
could transfer Federal Reserve funds by computer and disrupt electrical power.
One hacker, identified by his online handle ``Mudge,'' told the Senate
Governmental Affairs Committee ``if you're looking for computer security then
the Internet is not the place to be.''




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: investorsedge@mci2000.com (SunGroup)
Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 15:33:58 -0700 (PDT)
To: investorsedge@mci2000.com
Subject: 90 Day Trial Offer: Day Trades/Growth/Blue Chips/Penny Stocks
Message-ID: <199805182644SAA35444@rush.provo.novell.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


5/18/98
Dear Investor.  Investors Edge is offering a 3-month subscription free. 
Investors Edge is a Newsletter that searches out timely undervalued and special situation investment opportunities.  From Day Trades to high growth companies.  Once you see your returns that you make from our advice, we are confident you will sign up for a full subscription. You have nothing to lose except timely investment opportunities.

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Here is a sample of a Market Alert.

Power Technology, Inc. Years Ahead of it's competitors
5/18/98 Market Alert

Power Technology PWTC (OTC: BB: PWTC) Time to start to accumulating. We have learned that the company is about to have a major event. Here is a brief description of the company.

Power Technology's (OTC BB:PWTC), principal offices and laboratory are located at 1000 West Bonanza Rd. Las Vegas, Nevada 89106.  The centrally located warehouse, laboratory, office structure, owned by Alvin Snaper, is a two-story 30,000 square foot building.  The Company utilities 5,000 square feet for the development and testing battery technology for electric automobiles and other uses.

Current technology in the automotive battery industry utilizes a 6 to12 volt battery system that employs standard electro-plates with lead-acid chemistries.  Power Technology has developed with already proven technology, a batter that substantially lighter than the conventional battery and also have a quicker re-charge rate and will be more cost effective. Because this new technology does not use lead, this product will be environmentally friendly.

The potential market for the new Power Technology battery could be any application that utilizes the conventional lead-acid technology. Also the current target market for Power Technology's battery will be the new environmentally friendly electric car.  Until recent amendments postponed legislation, the California Air Resources Board decreed that 2% of vehicles sold in California by major automakers must meet a zero-emissions vehicle standard by the year 1998.  By the year 2003, 10% of automakers sales mix in California must be electric. In addition clean-air-regulators in a dozen Northeastern states and Washington, DC are considering adopting the same air-quality standards as in California, which could result in an electric vehicle mandate covering roughly 40% of the US car and light-truck market.

The electric cars produce to-date have battery packs that last between 25,000 and 30,000 miles and require a two to three hour recharge using a 220-volt outlet or six to 10 ten hour recharge using a 110-volt outlet and cost about $2000 to $2,500 to replace. Still, these operating and recharge statistics only apply to electric cars or batteries operating at room temperature.  At higher temperatures, like those found on sun-soaked asphalt highways (approximately 50% of North America), battery life is drastically diminished.  Currently electric cars will carry two people about 50 miles on a hot day.  With this kind of performance the consumer will be very limited to where and how far they are able to drive.

The Battery that Power Technology has developed will let a consumer drive approximately 250 miles one a normal charge. The recharge time on a 110-volt outlet is approximately 3 hours. The Power Tech battery also does not contain any harmful materials.  

Two weeks ago I saw a prototype of the Battery and spoke to the inventor, Mr. Alan Snaper. The company currently has about $500.000 in the bank and is in discussions with several major companies and governmental agencies regarding this product. Currently Power Technology (OTC.BB) trades around 5 dollars a share.  The company just recently started to trade.  In my opinion Power Technology is undervalued. I believe this company will do very well in 1998. This is one of those undiscovered, overlooked companies on Wall Street. I really can't even project the potential of this company.  10 to 15 a share by the end of 1998 is extremely conservative.
Take a look at the management. The stock should be 10 just based on the management's resume. 

Management: Alvin A. Snaper, is the company's vice-president of development and the project coordinator for the new technology.  He has been engaged in scientific research and development of products and processes for 30 years. His well known inventions include the IBM Selectic Ball, Tang (the Orange drink), the NASA Apollo Photo-pack and a line of industrial hard coatings currently used by companies such as Gillette, Boeing, TRW, Vermont-American, Gulf Western and many others. Mr. Snapper currently holds 600 U.S. and foreign patents, products and processes. Mr. Snaper is the only inventor to receive the Design News Magazine Best Patent of the Year award for three separate years. In fact he is the only individual to receive more than one such citation.

Charles Warn is the Chief chemical engineer for the project.  He has over 40 years experience in development and project engineering and design expertise in a variety of different disciplines.  His past experience includes working with General Motors and Parker-Hannifin with high performance aircraft fuel systems.

Chances are that one of the big three automakers will buy out Power Technology.
Due to no exposure in the financial industry, Power is undiscovered and a screaming buy.











From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: eureka-help@eureka.abc-web.com
Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 08:42:45 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Successful Subscription
Message-ID: <895592559.16954.ezmlm@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


WELCOME TO EUREKA!
==================
Congratulations,  your free subscription to the Eureka!
newsletter is now set up. We hope you enjoy every copy.
As promised,  while you wait  for your first newsletter
here are the links to  the FREE videos and FREE photos!

BIENVENUE Ŕ EUREKA!
===================
Félicitations,  votre abonnement  libre ŕ  l'Eureka! le
bulletin  est  maintenant installé.  Nous espérons  que
vous  appréciez chaque copie.  Comme promis,  alors que
vous attendez votre premier bulletin ici sont les liens
aux videos LIBRES et aux photos LIBRES!

WILLKOMMEN ZU EUREKA!
=====================
Glückwünsche,   Ihre  freie  Subskription  zum  Eureka!
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===================
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: kie25@msn.com
Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 17:34:28 -0700 (PDT)
To: kie25@msn.com
Subject: A DIRTY LITTLE JOKE!!!
Message-ID: <199805191585RAA15856@server.on.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


| ------------------WWW.THEDIRTYJOKE.COM------------------ |    
|This filthy joke was brought to you by the wonderful folks|    
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|to anyone you think might get a kick out if it ... and for|    
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: She Devil With A Modem 
Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 20:08:20 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Suit with braindead tie
Message-ID: <199805200308.XAA06738@rowan.liii.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Also Sprach Anonymous:
> 
> time.com / The Netly News
> May 19, 1998
> 
>        There was blood in the water in Washington, DC yesterday, and
>    Microsoft's foes hardly had a chance to rejoice over the government's
>    anticipated antitrust lawsuit before they were asking for more.
>    Longtime Microfoe Gary Reback, an attorney with the Silicon Valley law
>    firm Wilson Sonsini Goodrich & Rosati, still thinks breaking up
>    Microsoft AT&T-style would be a good idea. At a press conference
>    yesterday, Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-Utah) predicted the lawsuit "will
>    become even broader. I have no doubt about that." Netscape dubbed it a
>    welcome but only an "initial step."
>    
> [...remainder snipped...]

I wonder if anyone else has picked up on the "Braindead military 
action" of awarding Microsoft the dubiously coveted intelligence 
desktop? It may not be as braindead as you think.

Yes, if standard kickbacks and BS occur as they have in the past
(those who are not free to speak about the mistakes of the past 
may be doomed to see them repeated) then technical support for
the poor troopies required to maintain the shitty, buggy NT ports
may end up making "Blue Screen Of Death" have an entirely new and
sad meaning. It's sad that the lack of the intelligence community's
desire to police itself as much as it would like to police America's
generic civilians results in the sort of kickbacking that yields
inferior weaponry, but I guess if they don't address that it will
end up biting them in the ass. And yes, that is indeed indicative 
of a braindead military, led by the supreme oxymoron of a braindead
military intelligence community, where the dutiful are asked to 
turn their eyes away (for reasons of classification, of course)
from the acts of the greedy. 

But assume for a moment that it might be the military and not M$oft
that holds the leash on the contract. Imagine a Microsoft that 
has sold it's soul to the US Intel community. Couldn't happen to a
nicer company, don't you think? Microsoft HAVING to port their NT
stuff to the Unix boxes that hold the databases and the communications
servers. Microsoft HAVING to provide a certain amount of "mission 
critical" tech support. Microsoft HAVING to deal with adapting to 
the real world, rather than forcing the world to adapt to it.

This could be the beginning of a beautiful "friendship". >;-7

-- 
"Good evening, Mr. Burglar! My name is Jowles!   | Do not           CD  c
 Would you care for a cocktail before I attempt  | taunt --------P===\==/
 to intimidate you with my aggressive behavior?" | happy fun         /_\__
                     -- Miss Manners' Attack Dog | fencer!             _\ \
S




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 20:17:08 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Chaum's patent on traceable payment systems
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199805200317.XAA29396@camel8.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Chaum's "limited-traceability" patent includes other features
which directly counterbalance those of the Abstract accurately 
posted by Anonymous.  We've transcribed the initial sections of the
17-page patent which provide a fuller view of what his system 
offers:

   http://jya.com/chaum-lts.htm  

It's an interesting, nuanced proposal, from 1994, which helps
explain some of the strategy he's been keeping close to his 
chest until patent approval, and which may portend more 
provocative designs in the pipeline for outfoxing the keepers
of the chickens.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSqncrs 
Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 20:40:49 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: 'Nobody', Still At Home!
Message-ID: <7272bfd8.3562508e@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


In a message dated 5/19/98 10:09:01 PM Central Daylight Time,
mixmaster@remail.obscura.com writes:

<< Stan, It is considered rude to quote a private e-mail publicly without
obtaining permission from the sender first.  Try putting "netiquitte" in your
favorite search engine.  Then read and learn.  This will help you. >>

Gee, like sending anonomous, unsolicited e-mail isn't against "netiquitte"?
Try taking that "plank" out of you eye, buddy!

Stan




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 36997526@giselp.com
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 01:29:10 -0700 (PDT)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: Secrets To Losing Weight Right Now and Keeping It Off Forever!
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: out@sex-e-world.com
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 01:46:01 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Adults Only
Message-ID: <199805200859.BAA15075@ns1.1connect.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



This message is intended for those over the age of 18.  If you are under the age of 18
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nuw@mail.usa.com
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 10:22:55 -0700 (PDT)
To: code5454@aol.com
Subject: The market is wide open
Message-ID: <199805201719.NAA07700@pop01.globecomm.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



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Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 20:53:10 -0700 (PDT)
To: "jf_avon@citenet.net>
Subject: Humor...
Message-ID: <199805210400.AAA10425@cti06.citenet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>                     WHERE AM I?
>              ------------------------------------
>A helicopter was flying around above Seattle yesterday when
>an electrical malfunction disabled all of the aircraft's electronic
>navigation and communication equipment. Due to the clouds and haze
>the pilot could not determine his position or course to steer to
>the airport. The pilot saw a tall building, flew toward it, circled,
>drew a handwritten sign and held it in the helicopter's window. T
>he sign said "WHERE AM I ?" in large letters.
>
>People in the tall building quickly responded to the aircraft,
>drew a large sign and held it in a building window. Their sign said,
>"YOU ARE IN A HELICOPTER.' The pilot smiled, waved, looked at his
>map and determine the course to steer to SEATAC
>(Seattle/Tacoma) airport and landed safely.
>
>After they were on the ground, the co-pilot asked the pilot how
>the "YOU ARE IN A HELICOPTER" sign helped determine their
>position. The pilot responded, "I knew that had to be the
>MICROSOFT building because they gave me a technically correct
>but completely useless answer."

Jean-Francois Avon, Pierrefonds(Montreal) QC Canada
  JFA Technologies, R&D physicists & engineers
  Instrumentation & control, LabView programming.
PGP keys: http://bs.mit.edu:8001/pks-toplev.html
PGP ID:C58ADD0D:529645E8205A8A5E F87CC86FAEFEF891 
PGP ID:5B51964D:152ACCBCD4A481B0 254011193237822C






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 6YqDi2e7N@alwret.com
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To: DEAR, FRIEND@pm05sm.pmm.mci.net
Subject: LOSE FAT/BUILD MUSCLE: USE CREATINE
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew T Darling 
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 11:22:21 -0700 (PDT)
To: josh d smith 
Subject: Re: programing
In-Reply-To: <19980522.120339.3414.0.josh434@juno.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I prefer Ada, Apple's MLX, basic, and Logo.  At times i also like to
program in machine language.  

;)





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: sextracash@pleasureclub.com (Sextra Cash)
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 13:54:46 -0700 (PDT)
To: sextracash@pleasureclub.com
Subject: Does your site offer free content?
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 11:29:36 -0700 (PDT)
To: josh d smith 
Subject: Re: programing
In-Reply-To: <19980522.120339.3414.0.josh434@juno.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


My favorites are Applesoft BASIC and 6502 assembly. I suggest you go out
an buy an Apple IIe. Just think -- no need to deal with any messy
compiler, and you've got BASIC in ROM! A win-win situation, I say! 

Good luck!

-Declan


On Fri, 22 May 1998, josh d smith wrote:

> hello i am new to this list
> i would like to know what programing language everyone prefers
> and any books they recommend on that subject





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSqncrs 
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 12:08:31 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: programing
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


In a message dated 5/21/98 1:47:56 PM Central Daylight Time,
declan@pathfinder.com writes:

<< My favorites are Applesoft BASIC and 6502 assembly. I suggest you go out
 an buy an Apple IIe. Just think -- no need to deal with any messy
 compiler, and you've got BASIC in ROM! A win-win situation, I say!  >>

Oh Man!  If you're gonna suggest 6502, go out and get a Cad... - a C-64 with a
6510!

Seriously.  ;-)

Stan Rosenthal 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mark Hedges 
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 15:20:50 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: programing
In-Reply-To: <19980522.120339.3414.0.josh434@juno.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


PERL is horrendously less efficient, but easy to code for grunt work like
data processing and administrative scripts. PERL is THE BOMB for CGI web
programming, and combined with a nice free database with like mySQL, you
can produce some really amazing applications. I'd guess quite a few on the
list use PERL... I do, almost exclusively, but I'm making services and
doing sysadmin and not producing platform-specific applications. Then, C is
the most likely language used. Probably lots of people have their own
favorite languages. The O'Reilly and Associates 'Nutshell' books are widely
accepted as good reference manuals and tutorials in many lanugages. Certain
languages work better for certain applications. Check a technical bookstore.

Mark Hedges
Infonex/Anonymizer


>At 12:03 PM 5/22/98 -0600, you wrote:
>>
>>hello i am new to this list
>>i would like to know what programing language everyone prefers
>>and any books they recommend on that subject
>
>Josh, my guess is that about 99% of programmers on this list use C
>whether they like it or not. What they prefer might be quite
>different. ;)






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 12:34:34 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Archives: Blast from the past on GSM...
In-Reply-To: <199805211325.GAA04504@joseph.cs.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <199805211934.PAA12995@camel8.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Robert Hettinga wrote:

>Anyway, much more than Y2K, I can imagine some poor old fart sweating away
>right now, waiting for some intellegent young hacker to come along and
>evicerate his whole installed code base, just because he decided the "rest
>of us" were too stupid to figure out how smart he was.

Are you imagining "limited traceability" being discovered to be not what
it claims to be?

It was humorous that several of Chaum's equations were printed upside 
down and/or mirror-imaged, yet got through the 4-year review process 
just fine. He must have chuckled at that.

And that several "embodiments of the present invention" just flat out
said "if you trust this digital transaction you are one dumb MF who 
deserves to be monitored,"  thereby assuring the user of his invention
that a target is just as dumb.

It's impressive that Chaum intends to fleece the law-abiding and the 
outlaws by getting them chasing their tails thinking they're secretly 
tracing/escaping the opposition while he laughs all the way to the . . .

Y2K is the tip of this techno-shamanry-duplicity, wild humor with a
straight-bankers-face, umm, like guess who -- our best Chaumian style
comedian.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Xcott Craver 
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 16:01:13 -0700 (PDT)
To: josh d smith 
Subject: re:programming
In-Reply-To: <19980522.152606.3382.5.josh434@juno.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Fri, 22 May 1998, josh d smith wrote:

> i was thinking along the lines of pascal or c

> what is wrong with pascal or c please enclose all things that i should
> take in to consideration

	Neither has an ON GOTO command.

	I mean, this feature is decades old!  Jeez, you'd think they'd
	have one by now.  At least, we have FORTRAN's arithmetic IF.
	How can you write a good text adventure game without an ON GOTO?

	Seriously, I think ANSI C would be more universal, and less
	anal-retentive than Pascal.  Pascal was designed by a Nazi
	Fascist who wanted all programmers to sit up straight in
	their chairs and keep their office supplies carefully 
	arranged.  Real computer programming isn't office supplies
	and sitting up straight.  It's slouching, poorly-ventilated
	basements, and 20 half-empty cans of Barq's root beer.
	So program in C.

	Although the examples in Wayner's _Disappearing Cryptography_
	are written in pascal and lisp.  I guess I recommend learning
	as many languages as possible, but prepare to use C more than
	any other.

> much appreciative
>          josh

--                         __ +---------------------------------------------+
  ,ad8888ba,              (88)| Scott Adams, WHERE ARE YOU????????????????? |
 d8"' -- `"8b             `""'+--------------+--------------+---------------+
d8' "A Neo-                   | SpidermanTM  | SpidermanTM  | SpidermanTM,  |
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: vcarlos35@juno.com (Karl Rierson)
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 15:59:34 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: programming
In-Reply-To: <19980522.152606.3382.5.josh434@juno.com>
Message-ID: <19980521.185808.5791.0.vcarlos35@juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


The problem with C or pascal is that it requires 
quite a bit of punctuation such as:
braces {}
parentheses ()
and semicolons ;
Since your keyboard seems to be missing even a
period, programming in C may be a bit difficult...

Sorry. Couldn't resist.

On Fri, 22 May 1998 15:25:42 -0600 josh434@juno.com (josh d smith)
writes:
>i was thinking along the lines of pascal or c
>i don't want to use apple or any form of it and besides i have a ibm 
>compatible
>which do you think is better
>thanx for all your responses
>they've helped somewhat 
>what is wrong with pascal or c please enclose all things that i should 
>take in to consideration
>much appreciative
>         josh

----
Karl Rierson, 
PGP: 0x72136D5B/2048-bit RSA/ EBDD 6E87 4C85 6F7F  65EA B30C 00FF 0229
F**cking Juno hasn't heard of decent sized line wraps

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Assass1n 
Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 18:25:44 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Need a Decent nntp server
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980521234128.007a9250@mail.division-x.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


This might be a little off subject since I am new to this mailing list but
I am in need of a good nntp server because the one my ISP runs is always
down if anyone has a list or just one or two good servers that alow sending
and receving please let me know

Assass1n
assass1n@division-x.org






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 17:37:45 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Off topic.
Message-ID: <199805220037.CAA26634@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Call 1-800-343-3222 to stop the U. S. government from leeching off of the tobacco companies. 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Gypsy Wanderer" 
Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 06:13:32 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Unix O/S
Message-ID: <19980522131258.29926.qmail@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hi 
I'm new to posting on this list (I've been checking it out for a while, 
really interesting stuff).

I'm a computer science student and therefore a newbie, but am interested 
in cryptography. 

I will be taking a UNIX course next year and plan to set up a UNIX drive 
on my PC.

I'm interested in getting some advice on which UNIX O/S would be good to 
set up. I'm currently aware of FreeBSD, OpenBSD, SCO UNIX, and LINUX. 
Suggestions and the reasons why would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, Gypsy


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 05:04:13 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com (Cypherpunks)
Subject: Re: vznuri is Vulis
In-Reply-To: <199805220508.BAA09714@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <199805221202.HAA13035@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text


Information Security wrote:
>    >   From ichudov@Algebra.Com Thu May 21 23:09:59 1998
>    >   Information Security wrote:
>    >   >    >   From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
>    >   >    >   as for Timmy, you're better off ignoring him. he doesn't realize that
>    >   >    >   people take him far less seriously than he would hope.
>    >   > 
>    >   > Heh-heh-heh.
>    >   > Vulis's alternate personality is pathetic at flaming.
>    >   
>    >   1) He is not Vulis's alternate personality
> 
> He says in email he wants to convince me otherwise,
> but then failed to follow through with anything
> to document a real "Vladimir Z. Nuri".

Look, why don't you read two year old archives to figure things out.

>    >   2) You are also pathetic
> And you are Igor.
> ---guy, Vulis Terminator
>    KABLAMMO! dm.com was gone...Vulis never to post in his own name again

	- Igor.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Dan S. Camper" 
Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 05:10:16 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: re:programing
Message-ID: <199805221209.HAA22593@goanna.outer.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


>sorry if i offended you x1 but everyone else seemed like they were
>willing to talk on the subject and nothing else was being said and i
>needed some advise and you all are suposed to be inteligent which some of
>you have proved thanx everyone for your input so on the subject of
>cyptogrify (sorry about the spelling) what program do you request using?
>and where can i get it

COBOL would let you practice putting periods at the end of statements.  
Learn two things at once!

More seriously, code written in C, C++ and Perl is in demand.  There's a 
better chance that more people can maintain or update your code than if 
it was written in a less mainstream language, and customers tend to 
appreciate that.  Out of those three, Perl is probably the best 
introductory language.

DSC




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Markus Kuhn 
Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 03:33:34 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: programing (Ada95)
In-Reply-To: <19980522.120339.3414.0.josh434@juno.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


josh d smith wrote on 1998-05-22 18:03 UTC:
> i would like to know what programing language everyone prefers
> and any books they recommend on that subject

Depends on what I write:

  C     for efficient quickly developed unsecure hacks

  Perl  for less efficient more quickly developed hacks

  Ada95 for efficient large scale security critical applications,
        especially anything where multi-threading is a big issue

C and Perl are widely known, so I'll only speak about the third one:

Ada95 is actually a very nice language, and I wonder why it is still mostly
used by avionics engineers and the NSA and not so much in the commercial
world. Ada95 is object oriented, has exceptions, multithreading, object
synchronization, generics, decent type concepts, safe arrays and pointers,
etc. There is now a high-quality GNU Ada95 compiler available (GNAT, uses
the same backend and optimizer as gcc). I've put together some beginner's
information about Ada95 on

  http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/ada.html

where you find information about books, free compilers and online tutorials.

Java is also a quite nice language. Essentially rather close in functionality
to Ada95, but more targeted towards mobile code applications, while Ada95
is more targeted towards high-performance and embedded security applications
(has better support for low-level programming than Java). Pascal and
Basic are mostly obsolete today (no classes, exceptions, tasks, etc.).

Markus

-- 
Markus G. Kuhn, Security Group, Computer Lab, Cambridge University, UK
email: mkuhn at acm.org,  home page: 






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: R Sriram 
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 19:46:37 -0700 (PDT)
To: josh d smith 
Subject: Re: programing
In-Reply-To: <19980522.120339.3414.0.josh434@juno.com>
Message-ID: <19980522104014.12855@krdl.org.sg>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Fri, May 22, 1998 at 12:03:37PM -0600, josh d smith wrote:
| hello i am new to this list
| i would like to know what programing language everyone prefers
| and any books they recommend on that subject
| thanx
| josh

My favourites are 6510 assembly (C=64), 6502 assembly (BBC Micro), Z80 
assembly (Speccy - you need assembler software), and 8086 assembly.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Iain Collins 
Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 02:49:28 -0700 (PDT)
To: "cypherpunks@toad.com>
Subject: RE: programing
Message-ID: <01BD856F.1E4A6CE0.icollins@scotland.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Saturday, May 23, 1998 3:33 AM, josh d smith [SMTP:josh434@juno.com] wrote:
> hello it is i josh once again
> i finally bought a book for visual basic
> does anyone know where i can get a complier for version 5
> the book is by waite group press
> by e zone it's web based though and i don't have the internet but i think
> it will be fine reading it out of the book what do you think
> thanx josh

You don't have the internet? You didn't get it with your CD? - I heard you can get it
on 3 x 1.44 MB disks from KwikMart (only $1.99).

Now, I'm not too sure how all this 'internet' stuff works (all rather complicated), but
don't you need one to send an e-mail? Boy have I been burned... ;)

Iain, icollins@sol.co.uk

PS: If you would like serious answer then feel free to send me a serious question
and I'd be happy to help you out (I'd say the questions are off topic from this list :).







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Paul H. Merrill" 
Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 08:29:37 -0700 (PDT)
To: josh d smith 
Subject: Re: .
In-Reply-To: <199805221429.QAA08672@basement.replay.com>
Message-ID: <3565C458.CB00696D@acm.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


VB isn't really all that bad, and it is a useful skill while Smalltalk is of
limited value.  As far as the version goes, VB5 is currently available and its
product will work directly with WIN32.  A more advisable phasing methodology
would be to only USE a small subset at first, adding other functionality to the
pot in use as time (and familiarity,  and experience, etc.) progress.

PHM

Anonymous wrote:

> josh d smith wrote:
> >
> > hello it is i josh once again
> > i finally bought a book for visual basic
> > does anyone know where i can get a complier for version 5
> > the book is by waite group press
> > by e zone it's web based though and i don't have the internet but i think
> > it will be fine reading it out of the book what do you think
> > thanx josh
> >
>
> Josh,
> Visual Basic is object oriented and uses late binding, like Smalltalk.
> I advise you learn Smalltalk before trying to understand Visual Basic.
>
> Also, version 5 is too advanced for a beginner. Start at version one and
> only upgrade for new features as you need them.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Steve Mynott 
Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 03:38:48 -0700 (PDT)
To: josh d smith 
Message-ID: <19980522113435.55078@tightrope.demon.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I would recommend PERL as a powerful, compact language, which has many
crypto modules available.

-- 
pub  1024/D9C69DF9 1997/10/14 Steve Mynott 
            "Documentation? The code is the documentation!"




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: josh434@juno.com (josh d smith)
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 11:01:44 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: programing
Message-ID: <19980522.120339.3414.0.josh434@juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


hello i am new to this list
i would like to know what programing language everyone prefers
and any books they recommend on that subject
thanx
josh

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: X1 
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 22:17:01 -0700 (PDT)
To: josh d smith 
Subject: Re: programing
Message-ID: <19980522125520.26251@krdl.org.sg>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Fri, May 22, 1998 at 08:33:11PM -0600, josh d smith wrote:
| hello it is i josh once again
| i finally bought a book for visual basic
| does anyone know where i can get a complier for version 5
| the book is by waite group press
| by e zone it's web based though and i don't have the internet but i think
| it will be fine reading it out of the book what do you think
| thanx josh

This doesn't appear to have anything even closely related to the
purpose of the cypherpunks list. You should look at newsgroups like
comp.lang.basic.visual and look at other mailing lists.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSqncrs 
Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 11:24:43 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Unix O/S
Message-ID: <684212d9.3565c2af@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


In a message dated 5/22/98 10:29:27 AM Central Daylight Time,
nobody@REPLAY.COM writes:

<< I'm starting a petition for less wasted bandwidth in cypherpunks. >>

You would.

<< To show your support, just respond to this thread. >>

Oh, so there's no way we can show if we don't support your idea.  You create
what we call an un-level playing field.

BUT, in this case, I think there's a simple way that you can have it so
there's less wasted bandwidth here.  Ban anonomous posting.  ;-)

Stan




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: josh434@juno.com (josh d smith)
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 14:23:51 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: re:programming
Message-ID: <19980522.152606.3382.5.josh434@juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


i was thinking along the lines of pascal or c
i don't want to use apple or any form of it and besides i have a ibm
compatible
which do you think is better
thanx for all your responses
they've helped somewhat 
what is wrong with pascal or c please enclose all things that i should
take in to consideration
much appreciative
         josh

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 06:55:35 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Off topic.
Message-ID: <199805221355.PAA03760@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Fri, 22 May 1998, Reeza! wrote:

> At 02:37 AM 22 05 98 +0200, Anonymous wrote:
> >Call 1-800-343-3222 to stop the U. S. government from leeching off of the
> tobacco companies.
> >
> >
>
> Is there a 1-800 number to stop both the government and the tobacco
> companies from leeching off of the general populace?
>


How do the tobacco companies leech off of the general populace? By selling
them something they want? I just don't want to pay five dollars for a pack
of cigarettes which is why I'm spamming this number.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 07:29:10 -0700 (PDT)
To: josh d smith 
Subject: .Re: programing
Message-ID: <199805221429.QAA08672@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



josh d smith wrote:
> 
> hello it is i josh once again
> i finally bought a book for visual basic
> does anyone know where i can get a complier for version 5
> the book is by waite group press
> by e zone it's web based though and i don't have the internet but i think
> it will be fine reading it out of the book what do you think
> thanx josh
> 

Josh,
Visual Basic is object oriented and uses late binding, like Smalltalk.
I advise you learn Smalltalk before trying to understand Visual Basic.

Also, version 5 is too advanced for a beginner. Start at version one and
only upgrade for new features as you need them.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 08:07:11 -0700 (PDT)
To: Gypsy Wanderer 
Subject: .Re: Unix O/S
Message-ID: <199805221507.RAA14858@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Gypsy Wanderer wrote:
> 
> Hi
> I'm new to posting on this list (I've been checking it out for a while,
> really interesting stuff).
> 
> I'm a computer science student and therefore a newbie, but am interested
> in cryptography.
> 
> I will be taking a UNIX course next year and plan to set up a UNIX drive
> on my PC.
> 
> I'm interested in getting some advice on which UNIX O/S would be good to
> set up. I'm currently aware of FreeBSD, OpenBSD, SCO UNIX, and LINUX.
> Suggestions and the reasons why would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Thanks, Gypsy
> 
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


I'm starting a petition for less wasted bandwidth in cypherpunks.
To show your support, just respond to this thread.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: X1 
Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 04:08:31 -0700 (PDT)
To: josh d smith 
Subject: Crypto programs.
Message-ID: <19980522190349.54147@krdl.org.sg>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Sat, May 23, 1998 at 12:11:17AM -0600, josh d smith wrote:
| sorry if i offended you x1 but everyone else seemed like they were
| willing to talk on the subject and nothing else was being said and i
| needed some advise and you all are suposed to be inteligent which some of
| you have proved thanx everyone for your input so on the subject of
| cyptogrify (sorry about the spelling) what program do you request using?
| and where can i get it

Some of the best crypto programs:
PGP available at http://www.pgpi.com/
If you're in the US, look at http://www.pgp.com/

If you run Linux, you could look at CFS (Cryptographic File System)

Look at http://www.cs.hut.fi/crypto for lots of info about crypto,
links, algorithms, software, etc.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 16:24:14 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Clinton Backs Cyber-Terror Warnings
Message-ID: <199805222324.TAA01375@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


May 22, 1998
Clinton Backs Cyber-Terror Warnings
Filed at 1:31 p.m. EDT
By The Associated Press

ANNAPOLIS, Md. (AP) -- Nuclear warheads were the stuff of Cold War
stockpiles and beachheads the battlefields of times gone by. To counter
today's threats, President Clinton told a new class of Naval officers, the
United States must amass germ-warfare vaccines and battle terrorists in
cyberspace. 

``If our children are to grow up safe and free, we must approach these new
21st century threats with the same rigor and determination we applied to the
toughest security challenges of this century,'' the president said today in
a commencement speech at the U.S. Naval Academy. 

For the 769 graduating midshipmen and 139 midshipwomen whose dress uniforms
shone blindingly white in the sun, Clinton painted a near-apocalyptic
picture of the enemies who threatened their mission beyond the academy. 

``As we approach the 21st century, our foes have extended the fields of
battle from physical space to cyberspace, from the world's vast bodies of
water to the complex workings of our own human body. Rather than invading
our beaches or launching bombers, these adversaries may attempt cyber
attacks against our critical military systems and our economic base,''
Clinton said. 

Clinton also called for an interconnected ``cyber-system'' that would warn
and minimize damage of attacks on computers that control the stock market,
banking, utilities, air traffic and other so-called ``critical
infrastructure.'' 

Private companies including IBM, Dell Computers, Bell South and GTE have
already agreed to participate in the ``cyber-system,'' which Clinton wants
to be fully operational by 2003, administration officials said. 

``If we fail to take strong action, then terrorists, criminals and hostile
regimes could invade and paralyze these vital systems, disrupting commerce,
threatening health, weakening our capacity to function in a crisis,''
Clinton said. 

He appointed National Security Council adviser Richard Clarke, who
specializes in such issues as drug trafficking and terrorism, to head a new
office on infrastructure protection and counter-terrorism. Former Sen. Sam
Nunn and Jamie Gorelick, formerly the Justice Department's No. 2 official
and now Fannie Mae's vice chairwoman, will lead a private industry advisory

group. 

[Warnings of bio-terrorism snipped]




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 17:28:49 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Clinton's Anti-Terrorism Initiative
Message-ID: <199805230028.UAA03044@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


We've collected news and White House reports on 
Clinton's broad anti-terrorism initiative announced today,
including description of two related Presidential Directives:

   http://jya.com/prez-init.htm  (50K)






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: josh434@juno.com (josh d smith)
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 19:31:10 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: re:programing
Message-ID: <19980522.203316.3382.0.josh434@juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


hello it is i josh once again
i finally bought a book for visual basic
does anyone know where i can get a complier for version 5
the book is by waite group press
by e zone it's web based though and i don't have the internet but i think
it will be fine reading it out of the book what do you think
thanx josh

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 17:44:37 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: NSA Sets Terms for Secret Court Review
Message-ID: <199805230044.UAA16392@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


The US Attorney in the Payne v. NSA lawsuit has described
the procedure NSA requires for the case judge to assess NSA's 
"Glomar response" with a Top Secret-SCI-CODEWORD declaration 
concerning Crypto AG, NSA backdoor spying on cryptosystems, 
and other underhanded interceptions:

   http://jya.com/usa052098.htm






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 19:14:54 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: PDD 63
Message-ID: <199805230204.WAA06865@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


We've made an HTML version of Presidential Decision
Directive 63 which details Clinton's anti-terrorism orders
to federal agencies today:

   http://jya.com/pdd63.htm  (39K)




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Reeza! 
Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 05:27:17 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Off topic.
In-Reply-To: <199805220037.CAA26634@basement.replay.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980522222705.008005d0@205.83.192.13>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 02:37 AM 22 05 98 +0200, Anonymous wrote:
>Call 1-800-343-3222 to stop the U. S. government from leeching off of the
tobacco companies. 
>
>

Is there a 1-800 number to stop both the government and the tobacco
companies from leeching off of the general populace?





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: josh434@juno.com (josh d smith)
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 23:09:25 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: re:programing
Message-ID: <19980523.001120.9374.0.josh434@juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


sorry if i offended you x1 but everyone else seemed like they were
willing to talk on the subject and nothing else was being said and i
needed some advise and you all are suposed to be inteligent which some of
you have proved thanx everyone for your input so on the subject of
cyptogrify (sorry about the spelling) what program do you request using?
and where can i get it
       thanx 
           josh

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 06:31:45 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: E-Commerce Enhancement Act
Message-ID: <199805231331.JAA03260@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Excerpt from statement on introduction of S.2107, "Electronic
Commerce Enhancement Act," May 21, 1998 :

 The most important benefit of this legislation, however, lies in the
area of electronic innovation. Currently, digital encryption is in a
relatively undeveloped state. One reason for that is the lack of
opportunity for many individuals and companies to make use of the
technology. Another is the lack of a set industry standard. By allowing
use of this technology in the filling out of government paperwork, and
by establishing a standard for digital encryption, the federal
government can open the gates to quick, efficient development of this
technology, as well as its more application throughout the economy. The
benefits to American businesses as they struggle to establish paper-
free workplaces that will lower administrative costs, will be
significant, and will further spur our national economy.

-----

Full statement: http://jya.com/s2107-intro.txt








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: arpe@worldregister.com (WorldRegister)
Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 05:24:52 -0700 (PDT)
To: arpe@worldregister.com
Subject: World-wide security network for vehicles / objects
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Important e-mail for your company, all of your employees, and customers

Dear Sir/Madam

Please, also click on http://www.worldregister.com

You will see how easily, cost-efficiently, and effectively you can
protect your valuable property  (vehicles and objects) better against theft
and misappropriation. You will also see how you can reduce your risk of unintentionally purchasing stolen goods ­ and with that prevent from slipping under the "wheels of justice." Immediate success is guaranteed.

We notify all press organs, insurance companies, leasing banks, and
merchants who are accessible worldwide via the Internet and by e-mail about
our new vigilance medium.  You can start profiting today!

Short documentation
http://www.worldregister.com/english/kurzprospekt.htm

Good reasons for joining
http://www.worldregister.com/english/stichworte/motivation.htm

Mask pattern of one free property query
http://www.worldregister.com/english/info/privat_11_2.htm

Mask pattern of a fee-based property listing
http://www.worldregister.com/english/info/privat_4_2.htm

Fraud prevention for insurance companies. General.
http://www.worldregister.com/english/info/versi_7.htm

Uncovering of fake theft
http://www.worldregister.com/english/info/versi_5.htm

Warding off of claims reported multiple times
http://www.worldregister.com/english/info/versi_8.htm

----------------------------------------------------------------
Your e-mail address is published on the Internet.  We believe that this
innovation interests you for professional reasons.  In advanced, we would
like to thank you for your time.  If you have any further questions, please
do not hesitate to contact us.

Sincerely,  WorldRegister, Werner Bachman.

Tel: +41 1 313 04 71  Fax: +41 1 313 04 68
----------------------------------------------------------------







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Jean-Francois Avon" 
Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 07:35:30 -0700 (PDT)
To: "Cypherpunks" 
Subject: Re: E-Commerce Enhancement Act
Message-ID: <199805231443.KAA25446@cti06.citenet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Sat, 23 May 1998 09:30:01 -0400, John Young wrote:

>Excerpt from statement on introduction of S.2107, "Electronic
>Commerce Enhancement Act," May 21, 1998 :
[snip]
> The
>benefits to American businesses as they struggle to establish paper-
>free workplaces that will lower administrative costs, will be
>significant, and will further spur our national economy.

>Full statement: http://jya.com/s2107-intro.txt

one of my friend replied when I asked just *where* was the promised paperless office:
"as likely as a paperless toilet..."

:-)

Ciao

jfa

Jean-Francois Avon, Pierrefonds(Montreal) QC Canada
  JFA Technologies, R&D physicists & engineers
  Instrumentation & control, LabView programming.
PGP keys: http://bs.mit.edu:8001/pks-toplev.html
PGP ID:C58ADD0D:529645E8205A8A5E F87CC86FAEFEF891 
PGP ID:5B51964D:152ACCBCD4A481B0 254011193237822C






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Kentroy 
Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 14:21:26 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: hello
Message-ID: <35673E3D.9C0B79F3@apci.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


TO whom ewver this concerns,

I came across your web page about making bumber stickers and was
iteresetes in purchasing some of the paper you talked about on your
page. If you can send me info or what everi need to purchase it you can
contact me at Vyncez@hotmail.com






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 18:42:32 -0700 (PDT)
To: j orlin grabbe 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Saturday 5/23/98 7:16 PM

J Orlin Grabbe  http://www.aci.net/kalliste/

Just saw subject heading. "TOP SECRET (TS), Sensitive Compartmented
Information (SCI), CODEWORD" 

But jya.com did not respond.

I will buy a refrigerator magnet at the National Atomic Museum
in Albquerque

         1945 509th COMPOSITE GROUP 1995
           FIRST ATOMIC BOMBARDMENT
             50th ANNIVERSARY

for you and Masanori TOO.

For business reasons perhaps I should buy the whole bowl full.

This is so gross they have to be worth some MONEY, $US, YEN, SF, DM, 
Ringitt, etc.

Later
bill






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nl0v@nl0vpg.net
Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 19:52:52 -0700 (PDT)
To: friends@internet.com
Subject: An invitation
Message-ID: <34755181_76443379>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



This is a one time mailing and is never sent unsolicited. Your email address was included in an "Opt-In" target list of those interested 
in receiving adult site advertizing.If you have received this message in error please delete it.

Looking for High Quality Video and Pics??? 
Visit our site - you will not be disappointed!!

http://www.oasis.nu/jenny 




 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 02:35:14 -0700 (PDT)
To: StanSqncrs 
Subject: (no subject)Re: Unix O/S
Message-ID: <199805240935.LAA03446@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


StanSqncrs wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 5/22/98 10:29:27 AM Central Daylight Time,
> nobody@REPLAY.COM writes:
> 
> << I'm starting a petition for less wasted bandwidth in cypherpunks. >>
> 
> You would.
> 
> << To show your support, just respond to this thread. >>
> 
> Oh, so there's no way we can show if we don't support your idea.  You create
> what we call an un-level playing field.
> 
> BUT, in this case, I think there's a simple way that you can have it so
> there's less wasted bandwidth here.  Ban anonomous posting.  ;-)
> 
> Stan

Stan,
   this is a petition. Unlike playing fields, petitions usually only
have one side, so your complaint is invalid.

Your new proposal merits inclusion, however. All those in favour of
banning anonymous posting can show their support by 
responding to the thread via an anonymous remailer.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: tiikue43@netcom.com
Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 18:00:59 -0700 (PDT)
To: tiikue43@netcom.com
Subject: The Hidden Secrets of Mortgage Lenders
Message-ID: <19980524427WAA48163@earthlink.net.ur.mx>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



(this is a one time mailing only!!)


Dear Homeowner,


Would you like to pay off all your debts, including your mortgage in 5 to 8 years, without increasing your monthly payments?  Or are you happy paying 88% of the value of your home in interest during the first ten years?  Do you want to continue making the minimum payment on your charge cards, which could take you over 20 years to pay them off?  How can we do this?  With accelerators.

Accelerators are nothing new, large corporations have been using them for centuries.  Accelerators allow you to pay off the principal of your debts, therefore limiting the amount of interest that you owe.  The result can be a substantial reduction in the length of time an individual pays on his or her mortgage and consumer debts, and a dramatic reduction in the amount of total payments.

With accelerators you can eliminate your mortgage and debt in 5 to 8 years then take the same money you were using to pay off your debts and build true wealth during the time it would have taken you to pay off your mortgage originally.  You don't need to be a wall street wizard to make this work.  Let Equity 1st teach you how to avoid the pitfalls that cause most people to fail financially.

In our program, you will know how and when you will be out of debt, as well as when you will be financially independent and able to live off the income from your investments.

Most lenders want to keep you in debt as long as possible.  The longer you are in debt, the more interest you pay.  Equity 1st of Salt Lake City, Utah, has been helping people totally eliminate all their debts, and reach their financial goals, since the 1980's.

Whether you require a first mortgage, second mortgage, debt consolidation, debt restructuring, or mortgage acclerator program, I can help you with all your financing needs.  My network of nationwide lenders enables me to find the best interest rates available..  Programs are also available for homeowners with slow credit, little or no equity, or even bankruptcy.

The reality: 96% of all Americans fail to achieve financial independence.  Do you want to be in the 4% who do?

To learn more about how you can be debt free, and have all your financing options explained to you, click HERE to request more information, (place debt free, and your first name  in the subject).  If you prefer to speak with a Financial Consultant for a no obligation consultation, call toll free at 888-283-4899, in North Carolina call 910-777-8117.  Consultants are available Monday - Friday from 8:00am until 9:00pm and on Saturday between the hours of 9:00am to 12:00pm eastern standard time.  When calling have this ID code SRLM available.



Sincerely, 

Denise Whitaker 
Financial Consultant and Mortgage Lending Officer





MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Note:We do not wish to send e-mail to anyone that does
not want it so please send an e-mail to:
corvett54@yahoo.com
You will be removed promptly.
*****************************************************************

"THE INTERNET SUCCESS TOOLBOX"
The Most Complete Marketing Software Package Available Anywhere!

This is what you will receive on  CD-ROM:

1. Stealth Mass Mailer ($399.00 value) - This unique, first of 
it's kind - software that allows you to easily send 250,000 e-mail 
messages an hour. Simply enough by making a single 
connection to the Internet using a standard modem, and connecting to
either 20 different mail servers, or a single mail server 20 times.

This, easy to use, software is designed for the basic computer 
user to understand. It's as easy as imputing the mail server, 
selecting the list of e-mail recipients to send to, inserting your 
e-mail address, adding your subject line, selecting your sales 
letter, and pressing send.

2. E-Mail Pro Extractor ($350.00 value) - This one of a kind software 
program is designed to manage and clean up any list of e-mail
addresses. It will purge duplicates, manage removes and delete
undeliverables. It will also separate and categorize your list of 
e-mail addresses by domain names.

The E-mail Pro Version 4.0 Bulk E-mail Loader also imports simple
text files that anyone can download from AOL, CompuServe, the
Internet, etc...These text files contain classified ads, forum 
messages, or data from the member directory. Each of these 
files are filled with e-mail addresses.

3. Check Deposit System ($125.00 value) - Check Deposit System 
Version 2.1 is a state of the art, revolutionary software that allows
you to easily and legally process checks by fax, phone or Internet.
The customer's signature on the check is not necessary. 

4. 16 Million E-mail Addresses ($149.00 value) - We took a total of 
over 92 million e-mail addresses from many of the touted CD's that 
are out there (bought them all - some were $300+)! We added the 
millions we had in storage to those. When we combined them all, 
we had in excess of 100+ million addresses in one huge file.

We then ran a super "sort/de-dupe" program against this 
huge list. It cut the file down to less than 25 million!! 

We then ran a program that contained 150+ keywords to 
remove addresses with vulgarity, profanity, sex-related 
names, postmaster, webmaster, flamer, abuse, spam, 
etc...Also we  eliminated all .edu, .mil., org., gov., etc...
After that list was run against the remaining list, it
reduced it down to near 16 million addresses!

So, you see, our list will save people hundreds of 
dollars buying all others that are out there on  CD. Using
ours will be like using the 100+ million that we started with, 
but a lot less money and a lot less time!

If you order "The Internet Success Toolbox" for $395.00
within the next 7 days, you'll also receive the following 
awesome bonuses absolutely FREE. 
A value of over $600.00 !!!

To order: 

____ YES!  I'm bursting with anticipation!  Please send me "The 
Internet Success Toolbox" so I can start advertising my business to 
"millions of people" - absolutely FREE!  I'm anxious to see how others 
are creating immediate "cash-flow explosions", and eliminating most of  
their advertising and marketing costs - and how I can do the same!  
Enclosed is $395.

____ YES AGAIN!  Because I'm responding within 7 days, I will receive 
6 BONUSES with a total value of $663.90 - absolutely FREE!  They include: 

BONUS #1 ($39 value): "Search Engine Secrets" - Discover the Most 
Powerful and Proven Strategies that really work to place you at the Top of
the Search Engines!

BONUS #2 ($195 value): A FREE one year subcription to "The Internet
Success Toolbox Newsletter" - my ticket to marketing and 
internet cash flow heaven!  

BONUS #3 ($39.95 value): Your Hotline List of "7000 Free Classified 
Ad Sites on the Internet" - a virtual GOLDMINE!  

BONUS #4 ($19.95 value): A FREE Special Report titled "How to Put Your 
Business on Automatic Pilot and Turn Your Marketing System Into a 
Predictable, Turnkey, Cash-Flow Machine That Keeps on Working - Even 
When You Don't!!"  
									
BONUS #5 ($195 value): Unlimited technical support.  Even though 
"The Internet Success Toolbox"  will be simple to use, it's great to 
know support is always available - if and when you really need it!  
And last but not least . . . .

BONUS #6 ($175 value): Order within 7 days and I'll also throw in a 
FREE VACATION CERTIFICATE good for 3 days and 2 nights of FREE 
lodging at one of over 30 "premier" resorts.

Some vacation spots you can choose from include: Hawaii; Orlando, 
FL; Las Vegas; Atlantic City; Palm Springs; Aruba - in the South Carribean;
Cancun, Mexico; and many, many more!

Hey, when you start making a TON of money, you'll wanna do some 
celebrating, won't you? So start packing those bags!

That's it. A lot more than you bargained for isn't it?

When you total all the goodies up, you're looking as a total value of 
$663.90! All yours - absolutely FREE - with your purchase of our amazing
 package  "The Internet Success Toolbox " for only $395.00.

And I'll even pay for shipping your package. You can have it in days. And 
start making money THE VERY SAME DAY!

Anyway, I have a copy right here on my desk reserved for you. All I need 
is your go ahead and I'll rush it out to you along with your 6 FREE BONUSES.	

___Yes, Also send me info on obtaining a Merchant Account so that I can take
credit cards for my business.

___I am interested in becoming a re-seller for your company. Please send 
re-seller information.
							

 Name _____________________________________________________

Street Address ____________________________________________

City)__________________State_______Zip_____________


Phone # (_____) ___________________________  

Fax # (______) _____________________

E-mail Address _________________________


___Visa  ___MasterCard

Total:$________

Account Number_____________________

Expiration Date____________________


I understand that all sales are final.


____________________________________
           Signature


To order by check:
***********************************************************

Tape or paste your check here
Fax it to us at: (425)379-9722
You do not need to send a hard copy of your check.
The fax is all we need.

(We are able to perform this service using our
Check Deposit System Software)

************************************************************


* Orders by Credit Card are shipped IMMEDIATELY.
  Fax completed order form to: (425) 379-9722

* Orders by personal, business or credit card CHECK are shipped in 7-10 
  business days.

* Orders MAILED IN or OVERNIGHTED with CASHIER'S CHECK  or MONEY ORDER are
  shipped IMMEDIATELY. Mail to: 
                       SYS
                       11014 19th Ave SE Suite 305 
                       Everett, WA 98208.
    
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 


									





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: iofferfun@bigfoot.com
Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 14:13:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Have a peek
Message-ID: <199805252112.OAA25547@cygint.cygnus.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I thought that you would be interested in these sites.  There are 
some interesting links on them.  You should check them out.

Arts sites: http://www.areyou.com/tt/arts.html
Automobile sites: http://www.areyou.com/tt/auto.html
Business Consultants sites: http://www.areyou.com/tt/bizcon.html
Business Opportunities sites: http://www.areyou.com/tt/bizop.html
Business Services sites: http://www.areyou.com/tt/bizserv.html
Computer Services sites: http://www.areyou.com/tt/comserv.html
Computer Software sites: http://www.areyou.com/tt/software.html
Money & Finance sites: http://www.areyou.com/tt/finance.html
Free Computer Products sites: 
http://www.areyou.com/tt/freecomputer.html
Gambling sites: http://www.areyou.com/tt/gambling.html
Games sites: http://www.areyou.com/tt/game.html
Health and Fitness sites: http://www.areyou.com/tt/fitness.html
Health Care Products sites: http://www.areyou.com/tt/health.html
Hobby collecting sites: http://www.areyou.com/tt/collecting.html
Home Business sites: http://www.areyou.com/tt/homebiz.html
Internet & Web Resources sites: 
http://www.areyou.com/tt/webres.html 
Marketing sites: http://www.areyou.com/tt/marketing.html
Shopping sites: http://www.areyou.com/tt/shopping.html
Sports sites: http://www.areyou.com/tt/sports.html

I hope you enjoyed them.

Liza







A mailing list was created for this promotion and will not be 
reused.  Each 
email address is permanently removed from the list after this 
letter is 
mailed.  However, if you still wish to email me with any questions 
or 
comments, please use the return address of this email.  Thank you 
for taking 
the time to read this material.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Dave Emery 
Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 11:22:38 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: [rttyman@wwa.com: [Spooks] Digital Steganography]
Message-ID: <19980525142146.B3293@die.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


----- Forwarded message from Bob Margolis  -----

Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 12:54:47 -0500
From: Bob Margolis 
To: spooks@qth.net
Subject: [Spooks] Digital Steganography

Secret Messages: Army Researchers Discover Advance Technique To Relay
   Information

   Army researchers bring new meaning to the phrase, 'a picture's worth
   a thousand words.'

   An advanced technique for hiding secret messages inside of images is
   a new discovery made recently by U.S.Army Research Laboratory (ARL)
   researchers and a Federated Laboratory partner from the University of
   Delaware.

   "As a method to provide secure communications on the battlefield, we
   are pursuing research in the area of digital steganography," says
   Lisa Marvel, an electronics engineer at ARL's Information Science &
   Technology Directorate.

   The Greek word, steganography, means covered writing.

   "Our initial system involves embedding hidden messages within images.
   Images that are typically transmitted over the battlefield, such as
   weather or terrain maps," she says.

   The hidden message, be it an authentication mark, time stamp or new
   orders to a commander, is completely undetectable and resistant to
   removal and arbitrary decoding. Only the intended recipient holding
   the 'key' can decode the hidden message.

   Consider for a moment the impact of this new capability. U.S. Forces
   are pent behind enemy lines and out numbered three to one. The
   commander is not able to communicate their situation to base, because
   an enemy listener is detected on the communication network.

   The commander orders a message be sent through the Stego
   Communication System. In less than 45 seconds a soldier types the
   message on a laptop computer, hides the message in a map and sends it
   to base undetected. U.S. troops are deployed with enemy forces
   unaware of the impending ambush. U.S. soldiers are recovered with no
   casualties.

   Steganography is part of ARL's defensive information warfare efforts
   under the Federated Laboratory Program. The research began in
   February 1997 and is projected to continue over the next two years.

   "The result of this basic research can be packaged as software that
   can run on any laptop, anywhere. The main focus for the next two
   years is to increase the amount of undetectable information that we
   are able to hide in an image and develop techniques that make
   messages even more resilient to any kind of corruption," Marvel says.

   Typically, basic research is projected for use five years out. But,
   Marvel says this particular work is implementable in a shorter
   timeframe. She predicts that when the research is completed in two
   years it will just be a matter of software rewrite and packaging,
   which will take about 6 months before it can actually become a true
   product.

   Marvel credits the collaborative work, commissioned by the Federated
   Laboratory, for the successful progress of the project. Marvel
   developed the initial test system, guided by Dr. Charles Boncelet,
   Professor of electrical engineering at the University of Delaware.

   "Dr. Boncelet brought in some specific insights and his expertise in
   random signals and noise truly contributed to the success of the
   work," Marvel says.

   Dr. Charles Retter another ARL engineer provided his expertise in low
   rate error correcting codes, "which is key to how we are able to
   extract the message from the image without having the original
   image," she adds.

   Digital steganography is a new topic of research that incorporates
   ideas from communications, cryptography, information theory, and
   signal processing. So far, very little information exists in the
   formal literature on this topic, unlike digital watermarking which is
   currently a very active area of research.

   Although similar, steganography differs from watermarking in several
   aspects. For example, digital watermarking is used to embed a visible
   or invisible signature into a medium in order to indicate ownership,
   such as the station insignia seen in the bottom corner of a
   television screen during programming.

   Steganography, on the other hand, is used to encode a hidden message
   typically much larger than a signature, Marvel explains.

   In preparing to file for a patent, the ARL researchers are conducting
   the required background research on the prior art.

   "We found that a few basic techniques used over the years work pretty
   well, but are not nearly as sophisticated or complete. It appears
   that our technique is unique," Marvel concludes.

---
Submissions spooks@qth.net

----- End forwarded message -----

-- 
	Dave Emery N1PRE,  die@die.com  DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass. 
PGP fingerprint = 2047/4D7B08D1 DE 6E E1 CC 1F 1D 96 E2  5D 27 BD B0 24 88 C3 18





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ABrigano 
Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 17:35:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [MVW] Mailing List Additions ...
Message-ID: <93a5f2fe.356a0ab0@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hello,

Recently, MVW has undergone an expansion of it's mailing list.  You have been
placed on the mailing list for Mohawk Valley Wrestling.  If you would like to
be removed from the mailing list, please, feel free to e-mail abrigano@aol.com
with the subject REMOVE and  you will be removed from the list immediately.

On the other hand, if you'd like to see some excellent e-wrestling cards that
will knock your socks off, stay tuned and read our mail once and a while.  You
won't be dissapointed.  I'll do my best to keep your intrest through each and
every card.  The 7 month old MVW as at it's hottest, and I want to share it
with you.

Thank You,
Anthony Brigano




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: global8888@yahoo.com
Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 21:02:11 -0700 (PDT)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: The Internet Success ToolBox
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Note:We do not wish to send e-mail to anyone that does
not want it so please send an e-mail to:
global8889@yahoo.com
You will be removed promptly.
*****************************************************************

"THE INTERNET SUCCESS TOOLBOX"
The Most Complete Marketing Software Package Available Anywhere!

This is what you will receive on  CD-ROM:

1. Stealth Mass Mailer ($399.00 value) - This unique, first of 
it's kind - software that allows you to easily send 250,000 e-mail 
messages an hour. Simply enough by making a single 
connection to the Internet using a standard modem, and connecting to
either 20 different mail servers, or a single mail server 20 times.

This, easy to use, software is designed for the basic computer 
user to understand. It's as easy as imputing the mail server, 
selecting the list of e-mail recipients to send to, inserting your 
e-mail address, adding your subject line, selecting your sales 
letter, and pressing send.

2. E-Mail Pro Extractor ($350.00 value) - This one of a kind software 
program is designed to manage and clean up any list of e-mail
addresses. It will purge duplicates, manage removes and delete
undeliverables. It will also separate and categorize your list of 
e-mail addresses by domain names.

The E-mail Pro Version 4.0 Bulk E-mail Loader also imports simple
text files that anyone can download from AOL, CompuServe, the
Internet, etc...These text files contain classified ads, forum 
messages, or data from the member directory. Each of these 
files are filled with e-mail addresses.

3. Check Deposit System ($125.00 value) - Check Deposit System 
Version 2.1 is a state of the art, revolutionary software that allows
you to easily and legally process checks by fax, phone or Internet.
The customer's signature on the check is not necessary. 

4. 16 Million E-mail Addresses ($149.00 value) - We took a total of 
over 92 million e-mail addresses from many of the touted CD's that 
are out there (bought them all - some were $300+)! We added the 
millions we had in storage to those. When we combined them all, 
we had in excess of 100+ million addresses in one huge file.

We then ran a super "sort/de-dupe" program against this 
huge list. It cut the file down to less than 25 million!! 

We then ran a program that contained 150+ keywords to 
remove addresses with vulgarity, profanity, sex-related 
names, postmaster, webmaster, flamer, abuse, spam, 
etc...Also we  eliminated all .edu, .mil., org., gov., etc...
After that list was run against the remaining list, it
reduced it down to near 16 million addresses!

So, you see, our list will save people hundreds of 
dollars buying all others that are out there on  CD. Using
ours will be like using the 100+ million that we started with, 
but a lot less money and a lot less time!

If you order "The Internet Success Toolbox" for $395.00
within the next 7 days, you'll also receive the following 
awesome bonuses absolutely FREE. 
A value of over $600.00 !!!

To order: 

____ YES!  I'm bursting with anticipation!  Please send me "The 
Internet Success Toolbox" so I can start advertising my business to 
"millions of people" - absolutely FREE!  I'm anxious to see how others 
are creating immediate "cash-flow explosions", and eliminating most of  
their advertising and marketing costs - and how I can do the same!  
Enclosed is $395.

____ YES AGAIN!  Because I'm responding within 7 days, I will receive 
6 BONUSES with a total value of $663.90 - absolutely FREE!  They include: 

BONUS #1 ($39 value): "Search Engine Secrets" - Discover the Most 
Powerful and Proven Strategies that really work to place you at the Top of
the Search Engines!

BONUS #2 ($195 value): A FREE one year subcription to "The Internet
Success Toolbox Newsletter" - my ticket to marketing and 
internet cash flow heaven!  

BONUS #3 ($39.95 value): Your Hotline List of "7000 Free Classified 
Ad Sites on the Internet" - a virtual GOLDMINE!  

BONUS #4 ($19.95 value): A FREE Special Report titled "How to Put Your 
Business on Automatic Pilot and Turn Your Marketing System Into a 
Predictable, Turnkey, Cash-Flow Machine That Keeps on Working - Even 
When You Don't!!"  
									
BONUS #5 ($195 value): Unlimited technical support.  Even though 
"The Internet Success Toolbox"  will be simple to use, it's great to 
know support is always available - if and when you really need it!  
And last but not least . . . .

BONUS #6 ($175 value): Order within 7 days and I'll also throw in a 
FREE VACATION CERTIFICATE good for 3 days and 2 nights of FREE 
lodging at one of over 30 "premier" resorts.

Some vacation spots you can choose from include: Hawaii; Orlando, 
FL; Las Vegas; Atlantic City; Palm Springs; Aruba - in the South Carribean;
Cancun, Mexico; and many, many more!

Hey, when you start making a TON of money, you'll wanna do some 
celebrating, won't you? So start packing those bags!

That's it. A lot more than you bargained for isn't it?

When you total all the goodies up, you're looking as a total value of 
$663.90! All yours - absolutely FREE - with your purchase of our amazing
 package  "The Internet Success Toolbox " for only $395.00.

And I'll even pay for shipping your package. You can have it in days. And 
start making money THE VERY SAME DAY!

Anyway, I have a copy right here on my desk reserved for you. All I need 
is your go ahead and I'll rush it out to you along with your 6 FREE BONUSES.	

___Yes, Also send me info on obtaining a Merchant Account so that I can take
credit cards for my business.

___I am interested in becoming a re-seller for your company. Please send 
re-seller information.
							

 Name _____________________________________________________

Street Address ____________________________________________

City)__________________State_______Zip_____________


Phone # (_____) ___________________________  

Fax # (______) _____________________

E-mail Address _________________________


___Visa  ___MasterCard

Total:$________

Account Number_____________________

Expiration Date____________________


I understand that all sales are final.


____________________________________
           Signature


To order by check:
***********************************************************

Tape or paste your check here
Fax it to us at: (425)379-9722
You do not need to send a hard copy of your check.
The fax is all we need.

(We are able to perform this service using our
Check Deposit System Software)

************************************************************


* Orders by Credit Card are shipped IMMEDIATELY.
  Fax completed order form to: (425) 379-9722

* Orders by personal, business or credit card CHECK are shipped in 7-10 
  business days.

* Orders MAILED IN or OVERNIGHTED with CASHIER'S CHECK  or MONEY ORDER are
  shipped IMMEDIATELY. Mail to: 
                       SYS
                       11014 19th Ave SE Suite 305 
                       Everett, WA 98208.
    
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 


									





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Xcott Craver 
Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 18:54:38 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Cite for "... [Spooks] Digital Steganography"
In-Reply-To: <19980525142146.B3293@die.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Mon, 25 May 1998, Dave Emery wrote:

=> ----- Forwarded message from Bob Margolis  -----

	Hi, all.

=>    "As a method to provide secure communications on the battlefield, we
=>    are pursuing research in the area of digital steganography," says
=>    Lisa Marvel, an electronics engineer at ARL's Information Science &
=>    Technology Directorate.

	Lisa Marvel presented the paper, "Reliable Blind Information
Hiding for Images" at the last Info Hiding Workshop (2nd annual) in April.
Coauthored with C. Boncelet, Jr. (U. Delaware) and C. Retter (Also 
from US ARM), the paper describes spread-spectrum techniques for hiding 
a good 1-5 Kilobytes in a 512x512 greyscale image securely and w/ error 
correction.  

	The proceedings aren't out yet, but one of the conference-goers
was kind enough to put electronic versions of the papers online.  See:

	http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~fapp2/ihw98/papers.html

	The ARM paper is in session 1.

							-Xcott

 ,oooooooo8     o     ooooo@math.niu.edu  ---  http://www.math.niu.edu/~caj/
o888'   `88   ,888.    888  
888          ,8'`88.   888   "I have discovered a truly marvelous proof of
888o.   ,oo ,8oooo88.  888  this statement, which, unfortunately, this margin
`888oooo88 o88o  o888o 888  is too small to contain.  And my FUCKING word 
____________________8o888'__processor won't let me resize it."_______________





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Tony Grendair" 
Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 21:49:49 -0700 (PDT)
To: d.linton@postoffice.worldnet.att.net
Subject: A Lottery You can Control The stakes In!
Message-ID: <19980526044859.14362.qmail@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


A Lottery You Control the Odds IN?

Read the first few lines and see if you aren't at least intrigued.  Are 
you SURE you won't miss out?

OK. So this is another MLM, BUT, this is the best one I've ever seen. 
Firstly, the cost to me for starting in on this program = $20 US plus 
postage. That's it. Second, you actually get something for your money. 
Something truly useful. The package you receive contains detailed 
reports of (1) How to start a small business, something very popular in 
today's economy (2) How to find Gov't auctions. You'ld be surprised how 
many there are (3) Home based business and (4) How to start an Answering 
service. Each of the reports is very inciteful and will get you at least 
wondering what it would be like to control your own destiny. PLUS, this 
program gives you the chance to raise the start up capital, or just make 
a bunch of money. This is a lottery you control the stakes at. With a 
little effort you can easily turn 20 dollars into much more. Think just 
10 people over the entire Internet need to take a chance like I did. I 
only need a response of about .05%, that's .005 out of a hundred I reach 
with this program. This is my first time ever doing this and I can't see 
one reason it won't work and I'm a business student at one of the best 
schools in the country. Hey I might not need a summer job. Wouldn't that 
be sweet?

Throw your hand in and with a little work this could be the greatest 
thing that ever happened.  Remember, people get rich with these 
programs, that's why there out there, there is no reason it can't be 
you. Maybe nothing in this life is free but this may be as close as 
there is.

 
 Please accept my apology if this was sent to you in error!
 
 *******************************************************************
 
 You are about to possibly make $50,000--in less than 90 days
 
 Read the enclosed program...THEN READ IT AGAIN!
 
 ********************************************************************
 
 
 Dear Friend,
 	If you are looking to make some real money, and you don't want to 
spend
much  money to do it then this is for you.  This business will only cost 
you
$20 to get into, and that's not much when you consider some of the other 
offers
that  you will receive.  
 
 *********************************************************************
 Testimonial:
 	I am an Executive Director of a YMCA and would never do anything that 
I
thought  would be wrong.  So please take a look at the business program 
that we
are offering  you.  I think this is one of the safest investments that 
you 
 can make, and the rewards are outstanding $$$$.  It requires very 
little 
 effort on your part, and no hard selling.  Now that's what I've been
looking  for!
 
 	Many people have paid off debts, bought houses, taken vacations,
etc. with the  money they have made through this business, and believe 
me that it does
not take  long before the money starts to come in.  Within 5 to 7 days 
of sending
your  advertisement out via bulk e-mail you will start receiving orders 
for the
reports. 
  
You will have $5 bills overflowing your mailbox or PO Box. Many people
have  to pick their mail up at the window because all of the mail will 
not fit
into  the box!  Excited yet?
 
 	I was very skeptical too when I first received an advertisement about
this great  business opportunity, and passed on it many times--just 
deleting them
when I  received the offers.  Thank goodness someone sent me another 
chance.  
 	
 	The money has been rolling in now for about 9 weeks.  I have paid the
money  that I owed to state income tax, and paid off two other credit 
cards.  I
know  that in another 30 to 40 days I will be debt free, and how many 
people
can say  that now days?
 
 	We are only giving you the opportunity to help yourself to this
outstanding  money making opportunity.  The rest is up to you, but think 
about this. 
I have only spent about $100--$20 to order the reports and $80 to send 
bulk
emails, and I am almost debt free now.  Within another 3 to 4 weeks I 
will be
there--debt  free, and I never thought that would happen.  There is no 
other 
 opportunity that costs so little to get in, and to make such large sums
of money. 
  I urge you to act now.  I promise you will be very satisfied with the 
 results.         Butch Christy
 ******************************************
 
 	Please, if you have any questions about this program feel free to 
email
me with  your questions.  I will be glad to help you to financial 
freedom.  The
following  is the program and how it works, and please when you decide 
to act upon
this  great opportunity, follow all directions exactly.  Making changes 
 in the program in any way will result in lost income for you and 
others. 

 Thanks for taking the time to look at this program, and best wishes. 
  
                                           Jennifer Evans
 
  $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
 
 This is a LEGAL, MONEYMAKING PHENOMENON
 
 PRINT this letter, read the directions, THEN READ IT AGAIN!!!
 
  You are about to embark on the most profitable and unique program you 
may

 ever see.  Many times over, it has demonstrated and proven its ability 
to

 generate large amounts of money.  This program is showing fantastic
appeal  with a huge and ever-growing on-line population desirous of 
additional 
 income.  
 
 
 This is a legitimate, LEGAL, money-making opportunity.  It does not
require you to come in contact with people, do any hard work, and best 
of all,
you never have to leave the house, except to get the mail and go to the 
bank!
 
 This truly is that lucky break you've been waiting for!  Simply follow
the easy instructions in this letter, and your financial dreams will 
come
true!  When followed correctly, this electronic, multi-level marketing 
program
works.
 
 Thousands of people have used this program to:
 
 -Raise capital to start their own business
 -Pay off debts
 -Buy homes, cars, etc.,
 -Even retire!
 
 This is your chance, so don't pass it up!
 
 ____________________________________________________________
 OVERVIEW OF THIS EXTRAORDINARY ELECTRONIC MULTI-LEVEL MARKETING PROGRAM
 ____________________________________________________________
 
 Basically, this is what we do:
 
 We send thousands of people a product for $5.00 that costs next to
nothing to produce and e-mail.  As with all multi-level businesses, we 
build our 
 business by recruiting new partners and selling our products.  Every
state in  the U.S. allows you to recruit new multi-level business online 
(via your 
 computer).
 
 The products in this program are a series of four business and 
financial 
 reports costing $5.00 each.  Each order you receive via "snail mail" 
will

 include:
 
 *$5.00 cash
 *The name and number of the report they are ordering
 *The e-mail address where you will e-mail them the report they ordered.  
 
 To fill each order, you simply e-mail the product to the buyer. 
 The $5.00 is yours!
 
 This is the EASIEST electronic multi-level marketing business anywhere!
 
 FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS TO THE LETTER AND BE PREPARED TO REAP THE
STAGGERING BENEFITS!!!!
 
 ********INSTRUCTIONS**********
 
 This is what you MUST do:
 
 1.  Order all 4 reports shown on the list below (you can't sell them if
you 
 don't order them).
 
      *For each report, send $5.00 CASH, the NAME & NUMBER OF THE 
 REPORT YOU ARE ORDERING, YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS, AND YOUR RETURN POSTAL
ADDRESS 
 (in case of a problem) to the person whose name appears on the list 
next
to the report.  
 
      * When you place your order, make sure you order each of the four 
 reports.  You will need all four reports so that you can save them on 
 your computer and resell them.  
 
      * Within a few days you will receive, via e-mail, each of the four 
 reports.  Save them on your computer so they will be accessible for you
to 
 send to the 1,000's of people who will order them from you.
 
 2.  IMPORTANT--DO NOT alter the names of the people who are listed next
to each  report, or their sequence on the list, in any way other than is 
 instructed below in steps "a" through "d" or you will lose out on the 
 majority of your profits.  Once you understand the way this works, 
you'll
 also see how it doesn't work if you change it.  Remember, this method 
has
 been tested, and if you alter it, it will not work.  This is just the 
nature of the program. In order to achieve the multiplying phenomenon 
you must follow the steps.
 
    a.  Look below for the listing of available reports.
 
    b.  After you've ordered the four reports, replace the name and
address  under REPORT #1 with your name and address, moving the one that 
was there
down  to REPORT #2.
 
    c.  Move the name and address that was under REPORT #2 down to
REPORT#3.
 
    d.  Move the name and address that was under REPORT #3 down to 
REPORT
#4.
 
    e.  The name and address that was under REPORT #4 is removed from 
the
list  and has NO DOUBT collected their 50 grand.  
 
 
 Please make sure you copy everyone's name and address ACCURATELY!!!
 
 3.  Take this entire letter, including the modified list of names, and
save  it to your computer.  Make NO changes to the instruction portion 
of this 
 letter.  
 
 4.  Now you're ready to start an advertising campaign on the WORLDWIDE
WEB!  
 Advertising on the WEB is very, very inexpensive, and there are 
HUNDREDS
of FREE places to advertise.  Another avenue which you could use for 
advertising
is e-mail lists.  You can buy these lists for under $20/2,000 addresses 
or you can
pay someone a minimal charge to take care of it for you.  
 
BE SURE TO START YOUR AD CAMPAIGN IMMEDIATELY!
 
 5.  For every $5.00 you receive, all you must do is e-mail them the
report  they ordered.  THAT'S IT!  ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON 
ALL ORDERS!
 This guarantees  the e-mail THEY send out, with YOUR name and address 
on
it, will be prompt because they can't advertise until they receive the 
report!
 
 ___________________________
 AVAILABLE REPORTS
 ___________________________  
 
 ***Order Each REPORT by NUMBER and NAME***
 
 Notes:
 - ALWAYS SEND $5 CASH FOR EACH REPORT
 - ALWAYS SEND YOUR ORDER VIA FIRST CLASS MAIL
 - Make sure the cash is concealed by wrapping it in at least two sheets
of  paper.
 - On one of those sheets of paper, include: (a) the number and name of
the report you are ordering, (b) your e-mail address, and (c) your 
postal 
 address.
 
 __________________________________________________________  
 
 REPORT #1  "How to Start Your Own Home Based Business For Fun & 
Profit!"
 
 ORDER REPORT #1 FROM:
 
KKyKo
Rideau Town Center
Post Office Box 30029
Kingston, ON
Canada
K7K 7B5

Please ensure sufficient postage, it is slightly more to mail to Canada. 
If you like I can include how I collected over 4000 email addresses for 
free and I'll include the list I compiled. Simply add five dollars to 
this order.
 
 _____________________________________________________________
 
 REPORT #2 "An Insiders Handbook on U.S. Government Auction Sales"
 
 ORDER REPORT #2 FROM:
 
 U.S. Champs
 Post Office Box 1612
 Hermitage, PA  16148
 
 _____________________________________________________________
 
 REPORT #3 "How To Make Money Without Leaving Your House!"
 
 ORDER REPORT #3 FROM:
 
Caines
 3622 Tiffany Lane
 West Middlesex, PA  16159
 _____________________________________________________________
 
 REPORT #4 "Earn Extra Money With a Home Based Answering Machine"
 
 ORDER REPORT #4 FROM:
 
 Timberlane Consultants
 2627 Romar Drive
 Hermitage, PA  16148

 
 _____________________________________________________________
 


 
 HERE'S HOW THIS AMAZING PLAN WILL MAKE YOU $MONEY$
 
 _____________________________________________________________
 
 
 Let's say you decide to start small just to see how well it works. 
Assume your goal is to get 10 people to participate on your first level. 
(Placing a  lot of FREE ads on the Internet will EASILY get a larger 
response.)  Also
 assume that everyone else in YOUR ORGANIZATION gets ONLY 10 downline
members. 
 
 Follow this example to achieve the STAGGERING results below.  
 
 1st level--your 10 members with
 $5..................................$50
 
 2nd level--10 members from those 10 ($5 x100)..................$500
 3rd level--10 members from those 100 ($5 x 1,000)..............$5,000
 4th level--10 members from those 1,000 ($5 x 10,000)...........$50,000
 
                                        THIS TOTALS
 
 ----------------->$55,550
 
 Remember friends, this assumes that the people who participate only
recruit  10 people each.  Think for a moment what would happen if they 
got 20
people  to participate!  Most people get 100's of participants!  THINK 
ABOUT
IT!!!!!
 
 Your cost to participate in this is practically nothing (surely you can 
 afford $20 for a chance to make $55,000).  You obviously already have 
an 
 Internet connection and e-mail is FREE!!!  REPORT #3 shows you the most 
 productive methods for bulk e-mailing and purchasing e-mail lists.  
Some
list  and bulk e-mail vendors even work on trade!  
 
 About 50,000 new people get online every month!
 
 ********TIPS FOR SUCCESS*********
 
 *TREAT THIS AS YOUR BUSINESS!  Be prompt, professional, and follow the 
 directions accurately.  
 
 *Send for the four reports IMMEDIATELY so you will have them when the
orders start coming in because:
 
      When you receive a $5 order, you MUST send out the requested 
 product/report to comply with the U.S. Postal & Lottery Laws, Title 18, 
 Sections 1302 and 1341 or Title 18, Section 3005 in the U.S. Code, also
Code  of Federal Regs.  Vol. 16, Sections 255 and 436, which state that 
"a
product  or service must be exchanged for money received".
 
 *ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON THE ORDERS YOU RECEIVE.
 
 *Be patient and persistant with this program.  If you follow the
instructions  exactly, the results WILL undoubtedly be SUCCESSFUL!
 
 *ABOVE ALL, HAVE FAITH IN YOURSELF AND KNOW YOU WILL SUCCEED!
 
 
 ************YOUR SUCCESS GUIDELINE******************
 
 Follow these guidelines to guarantee your success:
 
 If you don't receive 10 to 20 orders for REPORT #1 within two weeks,
continue  advertising until you do.  Then, a couple of weeks later you 
should
receive at least 100 orders for REPORT #2.  If you don't, continue 
advertising until
you  do.  Once you have received 100 or more orders for REPORT #2, YOU 
CAN
RELAX,  because the system is already working for you, and the cash will 
continue
to  roll in!
 
 THIS IS IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER:
 
 Every time your name is moved down on the list, you are placed in front
of a  DIFFERENT report.  You can KEEP TRACK of your PROGRESS by watching 
which
report people are ordering from you.  If you want to generate more 
income, send
another batch of e-mails and start the whole process again!  There is no 
limit to
the income you will generate from this business!!
 
 NOTE:  If you need help with starting a business, registering a 
business 
 name, how income tax is handled, etc., contact your local office of the
Small  Business Administration (a Federal agency) for free help and 
answers to 
 questions.  Also, the Internal Revenue Service offers free help via
telephone  and free seminars about business taxes.  
 
 
 *******TESTIMONIALS*******
 
 	This program does work, but you must follow it EXACTLY!  Especially 
the
rule  of not trying to place your name in a different position, it won't 
work
and you'll  lose a lot of potential income.  I'm living proof that it 
works.  It
really is a great opportunity to make relatively easy money, with little 
cost to
you.   If you do choose to participate, follow the program exactly, and 
 you'll be on your way to financial security.  
      
Sean McLaughlin, Jackson, MS
 
 	My name is Frank.  My wife, Doris, and I live in Bel-Air, MD.  I am a
cost accountant  with a major U.S. Corporation and I make pretty good 
money.  When I
received the program I grumbled to Doris about receiving "junk mail".  I 
made fun
of the whole thing, spouting my knowledge of the population and 
 percentages involved.  I "knew" it wouldn't work.  Doris totally 
ignored
my supposed intelligence and jumped in with both feet.  I made merciless 
fun
of  her, and was ready to lay the old "I told you so" on her when the 
thing
didn't  work....Well, the laugh was on me!  Within two weeks she had 
received
over 50 responses.  Within 45 days she had received over $147,200 in $5 
bills!  I
was  shocked!  I was sure that I had it all figured out and that it 
wouldn't
work.  I AM a believer now.  I have joined Doris in her "hobby".  I did 
have
seven more years until retirement, but I think of the "rat race" and 
it's not
for me.  We owe it all to MLM.  
      Frank T., Bel-Air, MD
 
 	I just want to pass along my best wishes and encouragement to you.  
Any
doubts  you have will vanish when your first orders come in.  I even 
checked with
the  U.S. Post Office to verify that the plan was legal.  It definitely 
 is!   IT WORKS!!!!!
      Paul Johnson, Raleigh, NC
 
 	The main reason for this letter is to convince you that this system is 
 honest, lawful, extremely profitable, and is a way to get a large sum 
of
money  in a short time.  I was approached several times before I checked 
this
out.   I joined just to see what one could expect in return for the 
minimal
effort and  money required.  To my astonishment, I received $36,470.00 
in the first
14 weeks,  with money still coming in.
      Sincerely yours, Phillip A. Brown, Esq.
 
 	Not being the gambling type, it took me several weeks to make up my 
mind
to  participate in this plan.  But conservative that I am, I decided 
that the
initial  investment was so little that there was just no way I wouldn't 
get 
 enough orders to at least get my money back.  Boy, was I surprised when 
I
 found my medium-size post office box crammed with orders!  For awhile, 
it
got  so overloaded that I had to start picking up my mail at the window.  
I'll
make more money this year than in any 10 years of my life before.  The
nice  thing about this deal is that it doesn't matter where in the U.S. 
the
people  live.  There simply isn't a better investment with a faster 
return.
      Mary Rockland, Lansing, MI
 
 	I had received this program before.  I deleted it, but later I 
wondered
if I  shouldn't have given it a try.  Of course, I had no idea who to 
contact
to get another copy, so I had to wait until I was e-mailed another 
program. 
11 months passed then it came...I didn't delete this one!...I made more 
than
 $41,000 on the first try!!
      Wilburn, Muncie, IN
 
	This is my third time to participate in this plan.  We have quit our
jobs, and  will soon buy a home on the beach and live off the interest 
on our money.
The only way on earth that this plan will work for you is if you do it.  
For 
 your sake, and for your family's sake don't pass up this golden
opportunity.  Good luck and happy spending!  
      Charles Fairchild, Spokane, WA
 
     
 NOW WHAT IS $20 FOR A CHANCE TO MAKE AN EXCESS OF $50,000?  ORDER YOUR
REPORTS  TODAY AND GET STARTED ON YOUR ROAD TO FINANCIAL FREEDOM!!!!!!
 



______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: huihienii21@msn.com
Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 16:34:38 -0700 (PDT)
To: huihienii21@msn.com
Subject: Want to Advertise? Bulk Friendly Hosting? We Have It!!
Message-ID: <1998051434NAA13714@AOL-SUCKS.upm.edu.my>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 06:58:49 -0700 (PDT)
To: jim.moran@mail.house.gov
Subject: Appeals court notices
Message-ID: <356AC83A.747B@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Monday 5/26/98 7:39 AM

John Young

I looked at http://www.jya.com/nsa-cases.htm

 CALIFORNIA NORTHERN DISTRICT COURT
   Gilmore          v. NSA               
   Bernstein        v. State 

U.S. COURT OF APPEALS, NINTH CIRCUIT 
  Gilmore          v. NSA               [Court denied access to docket]  
  Bernstein        v. USA, et al        09/10/97  12/08/97  Open:
Submitted         

Looks like Gilmore http://www.cygnus.com/~gnu/ is on his way to the
Supreme Court.  Too.

We must all keep in mind that the government has loaded the courts with
its own
judges.

I was told not to worry if I got caught doing illegal work breaking
electronic
locks for the FBI.  The courts would cover for me.

Not enough people took seriously what some were saying during the
Vietnam
war.  Looks like those who screamed "Fascist pigs", unfortunately, were
right.

 FASCISM -   a political and economic movement, strongly nationalistic,
magnifying the rights
  of the state as opposed to those of the individual, in which industry,
though  remaining largely 
  under private ownership, and all administrative political units,  are
controlled by a strong central     
  government.

This morning I will file some papers for Morales with the court.

And get forms for notice of appeal to the Tenth circuit.

Let's all hope its not too late to make some PEACEFUL changes.  And hope
for settlement too.

Later
bill


Counterfeiting Wiegand Wire Access Credentials
     
                                   Bill Payne
     
                                 October 16,1996
     
                                    Abstract
     
                  Wiegand wire access credentials are easy and
                  inexpensive to counterfeit.
     
        Access Control & Security Systems Integration magazine, October
        1996 [http://www/securitysolutions.com] published the article,
     
             Wiegand technology stands the test of time
     
             by PAUL J. BODELL, page 12
     
             Many card and reader manufacturers offer Wiegand (pronounced
             wee-gand) output.  However, only three companies in the
             world make Wiegand readers.  Sensor Engineering of Hamden
             Conn., holds the patent for Wiegand, and Sensor has licensed
             Cardkey of Simi Valley, Calif., and Doduco of Pforzheim,
             Germany, to manufacture Wiegand cards and readers. ...  A
             Wiegand output reader is not the same thing as a Wiegand
             reader,  and it is important to understand the differences.
     
                In brief, Wiegand reader use the Wiegand effect to
             translate card information around the patented Wiegand
             effect in which a segment of a specially treated wire
             generates an electronic pulse when subjected to a specific
             magnetic field.  If the pulse is generated when the wire is
             near a pick-up coil, the pulse can be detected by a circuit.
             Lining up several rows of wires and passing them by a cold
             would generate a series of pulses.  Lining up two rows of
             wires - calling on row "zero bits" and the other "one bits"
             - and passing them by two different coils would generate two
             series of pulses, or data bits.  These data bits can then be
             interpreted as binary data and used to control other
             devices.  If you seal the coils in a rugged housing with
             properly placed magnets, and LED and some simple circuitry,
             you have a Wiegand reader.  Carefully laminate the special
             wires in vinyl, and artwork, and hot-stamp a number on the
             vinyl, and you have a Wiegand card.
     
             IN THE BEGINNING
     
               Wiegand was first to introduce to the access control
             market in the late 1970s.  It was immediately successful
             because it filled the need for durable, secure card and
             reader technology.
               Embedded in the cards, Wiegand wires cannot be altered or
             duplicated. ...
     
        Bodell's Last statement is incorrect.
     
        Tasks for EASILY counterfeiting Wiegand wire cards are
     
        1    Locate the wires inside the card to read the 0s and 1s.
     
        2    Build an ACCEPTABLE copy of the card.
     
        Bodell's clear explanation of the working of a Wiegand card can
        be visualized
     
             zero row    |     |   |
     
             one row        |          |
     
             binary      0  1  0   0   1
             representation
     
        Solutions to Task 1
     
             A    X-ray the card
     
             B    MAGNI VIEW FILM,  Mylar film reads magnetic fields ...
                  Edmunds Scientific Company, catalog 16N1, page
                  205, C33,447  $11.75
     
        is placed over the top of the Wiegand card.
     
        COW MAGNET,  Cow magnetics allow farmers to trap metal in the
        stomachs of their cows.  Edmunds, page 204, C31,101 $10.75
        is placed under the card.
     
        Location of the wires is easily seen on the green film.
     
        Mark the position of the wires with a pen.
     
        Next chop the card vertically using a shear into about 80/1000s
        paper-match-sized strips.
     
        Don't worry about cutting a wire or two.
     
        Note that a 0 has the pen mark to the top.  A 1 has the pen mark
        at the bottom.
     
        Take a business card and layout the "paper match"-like strips to
        counterfeit the card number desired.
     
        Don't worry about spacing.  Wiegand output is self-clocking!
     
        Tape the "paper-match - like" strips to the business card.
     
        Only the FUNCTION of the card needs to be reproduced!
     
                                     History
     
        Breaking electronic locks was done as "work for others" at Sandia
     
        National Laboratories beginning in 1992 funded by the Federal
        Bureau of Investigation/Engineering Research Facility, Quantico,
        VA.
     
        The FBI opined that this work was SECRET/NATIONAL SECURITY
        INFORMATION.
     
        Details of the consequences of this work are covered in
     
             Fired Worker File Lawsuit Against Sandia
             Specialist Says He Balked When Lab Sought Electronic
             Picklock Software, Albuquer Journal, Sunday April 25, 1993
     
             State-sanctioned paranoia,  EE Times, January 22, 1996
     
             One man's battle,  EE Times, March 22, 1994
     
             Damn the torpedoes,  EE Times, June 6, 1994
     
             Protecting properly classified info,  EE Times, April 11,
             1994
     
             DOE to scrutinize fairness in old whistle-blower cases,
             Albuquerque Tribune, Nov 7 1995
     
             DOE boss accelerates whistle-blower protection,  Albuquerque
             Tribune, March 27, 1996
     
             DOE doesn't plan to compensate 'old' whistle-blowers with
             money, Albuquerque Tribune September 27, 199




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Xena - Warrior Princess 
Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 11:30:02 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Holograms
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



EURO HOLOGRAM IS MISSING
Somewhere between Paris and Munich, a unique hologram design, intended to
deter counterfeiting of the new euro currency, has turned up missing.  The
French-made hologram was on its way to a high-security printer near
Nuremberg for testing.  One European Union monetary official called the
disappearance "startling" and there's speculation that the EU may have to
change the design of its high-denomination euro banknotes, due to be issued
in 2002.  The hologram was designed by a small business in Paris and was
taken to be loaded onto an Air France flight at Roissy airport by Brink's
security services.  Officials in Paris say the theft bears the hallmarks of
a well-organized crime, as only an expert would understand the significance
of the hologram in the note-printing process.  (Financial Times 21 May 98)








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Trans World Specials" 
Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 11:12:53 -0700 (PDT)
To: Trans World Airlines Customers 
Subject: Trans World Specials Fare Sales
Message-ID: <19980526153826.19097.qmail@inet2.twa.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Welcome to Trans World Specials 
 for May 26th, 1998.  Fares are 
 valid for travel originating 
 5/30/98 and returning 6/1/98 or
 6/2/98.  All tickets must be 
 purchased May 29th. 
 
 Have you been to www.twa.com
 lately?  Enroll in Aviators or
 check your mileage portfolio online.
 Read about TWA's J.D. Power &
 Associates / Frequent Flyer 
 Magazine Long Haul service award.
 
 On to this week's Trans World Specials
 
 
 ***********COACH FARES************
 
 
 
 Roundtrip fares betweeen ST. LOUIS, MO and:
 
 
 Cedar Rapids, IA (CID) 		$79
 Detroit, MI (DTW)		$89
 Wichita, KS (ICT)		$89
 Colorado Springs, CO (COS)	$139
 Boston, MA (BOS)		$149
 
 
 
 Roundtrip fares between BOSTON, MA and:
 
 
 Cedar Rapids, IA (CID)		$149
 Little Rock, AR (LIT)		$149
 St. Louis, MO (STL)		$149
 Wichita, KS (ICT)		$149
 Colorado Springs, CO (COS)	$169
 
 
 Roundtrip fares between CEDAR RAPIDS, IA and:
 
 
 St. Louis, MO (STL) 		$79
 Detroit, MI (DTW)		$99
 Boston, MA (BOS)		$149
 
 
 Travel is not valid on Trans World
 Express flights 7000-7999.  
 
 Call TWA at 1-800-221-2000 and book your 
 your Trans World Special today. 
 
 
 *******GETAWAY VACATIONS************
 
 
 ORLANDO -- Econo Lodge Maingate Hawaiian includes:
 
 - roundtrip economy airfare
 - 2 nights hotel accommodations
 - airport transfers
 - Avis 4-door compact car rental
 - 2 for 1 Church Street Station admission
 - kids 12 and under eat FREE
 - just 1.5 miles to Walt Disney World main entrance
 - 2000 bonus Aviator Miles in addition to actual miles
 - from $239 departing New York (JFK)
 - from $245 departing St. Louis
 - from $255 departing Cincinnati, Columbus, Dayton
   Detroit, Indianapolis, Kansas City, Litte Rock,
   Milwaukee, Nashville, Oklahoma City, Omaha
 - from $299 departing Boston, Hartford, Philadelphia
   Pittsburgh
 
 
 
 TASTE OF EUROPE FROM $2139 includes:
 
 - roundtrip economy airfare
 - buffet breakfast daily
 - sightseeing
 - some dinners
 - travel by private luxury motorcoach
 - available for 8/20/98 departure 
 - available from Los Angeles, San Francisco, Seattle
 - FIRST CLASS upgrade option for only $1099 each way
 - 5000 bonus Aviator Miles in addition to actual miles
 
 
 Call 1-800-GETAWAY( 438-2929) now
 and book your GETAWAY VACATION. 
 
 ******************ALAMO**************
 
 
 ALAMO offers these low rates for an 
 economy car valid 5/30/98 - 6/1/98
 
 $17.99		Detroit, St. Louis
 
 $20.99		Boston, Little Rock
 
 $29.99		Colorado Springs
 
 For reservations call Alamo at 1-800-GO-ALAMO and 
 request rate code RT and ID # 443833. For online
 reservations access Alamo at 
 http://www.goalamo.com
 
 ***********HILTON HOTELS & RESORTS*****
 
 Hilton Hotels/Resorts offers this low rate 
 valid the nights of 5/30/98 - 6/1/98
 
 $67	Detroit Metro Airport Hilton Suites, Romulus, MI 
 	( explore the many shopping malls or 
 	 the Windsor Casino)
 
 For reservations call Hilton at 1-800-774-1500 and
 ask for Hilton Value Rates. Visit Hilton at
 http://www.hilton.com
 
 
 **********TERMS & CONDITIONS**************
 
 
 Airfare Terms and Conditions: 
 GENERAL CONDITIONS: Fares shown are round trip, nonrefundable and 
 are subject to change. Changes to itinerary are not permitted. Fares 
 do not include Passenger Facility Charges of up to $12 depending 
 on itinerary. Must use E-Ticketing for domestic travel. Credit card 
 is the only form of payment accepted. Offer is not available in 
 conjunction with any other  discount, coupon or promotional offer. 
 Seats are limited and may not be available on all flights or days 
 of the week. Tickets must be purchased at time of booking and no 
 later than 5/29/98. Standby passengers not allowed.  DOM
 Monday (6/1) or Tuesday (6/2). Travel is effective 5/30/98 with 
 all travel to be completed by 6/2/98. Minimum stay is 2 days. 
 Maximum stay is 3 days. 
 
 Getaway Conditions: 
 ALL PACKAGES: Package include round-trip economy airfare from 
 cities indicated. Price is per person based on double occupancy
 and is subject to change. Availability, restrictions, surcharges,
 blackouts and cancellation penalties apply. No other discounts
 or promotions are valid in conjunction with these packages.  
 DOMESTIC CONDITIONS: Depart for Orlando Sunday-Wednesday and 
 return Tuesday-Friday. Travel is valid 6/23/98-7/29/98 with all 
 travel completed 7/31/98. Surcharges apply 7/12-7/31. Price 
 does not include Passenger Facility Charges of up to $16 per 
 person. Full payment due by 6/1/98. 
 INTERNATIONAL CONDITIONS: Seats are limited and may not be 
 available on all flights. Price does not include Passenger 
 Facility Charges, US departure/arrival, agriculture, and 
 security fees from point of origin of travel up to approximately
 $90 per person. Single supplement from $489. Full payment is
 required by 6/1/98. 
 
 Car Rental Conditions: 
 Taxes (including in California, VLF taxes ranging up to $1.89 per day),
 registrations fee/tax reimbursement, and airport access fees/taxes, 
 if any, are extra. Optional CDW, liability insurance, fuel, additional
 driver fee, drop charges and other optional items are extra. Rates higher
 for renters under age 25. Rates valid for rentals commencing on Saturday
 and ending by 11:59 PM on Tuesday. Rates only valid during week in which
 they are published via TWA Internet site. A 24-hour advance reservation
 is required. Availability is limited.  
 
 Hotel Conditions: 
 Hilton Hotels and Resorts special rates are available only during the
 specific week in which they are published via the TWA Hot Deals 
 Internet site and the HiltonNet Internet site. Limited availability;
 rooms at these Hilton Value Rates are sold on a first-come, first-served
 basis. Availability, rate, and terms of occupancy are not guaranteed 
 and will be confirmed at time of reservation. Participating hotels,
 rates and terms are subject to change without notice. Single or double
 occupancy. Early check-in, late check-out subject to availability. 
 No extra charge for children when they stay in parents' or grandparents'
 room; total room occupancy subject to local fire safety regulations and
 other applicable laws or regulations. Rates vary by season, do not 
 include any other fees or charges, including without limitation state or
 local taxes or gratuities and are subject to change without notice. 
 Advance booking required. Advance deposit may be required. Offer cannot
 be combined with any other special discounts, coupons, certificates, 
 special rates, promotional offers, award stays, or meeting/group stays. 
 Hilton reserves the right to cancel any Hilton Value Rate at any time 
 without notice. Hilton is not responsible for the terms of other offers
 in the program, or for any electronic, computer, telephone, security, virus
 or any other problem or damage related to use of the program or its offers. 
 
 
 For reservations call 1-800-221-2000 (domestic) or 1-800-892-4141 (international) 
 or call your travel agent and ask for TWA's special Internet fares. 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bulletingmarket3893@ub.net.id
Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 04:56:46 -0700 (PDT)
To: marketbulletin@ub.net.id
Subject: SUBJECT: RE:  MARKET BULLETIN!!
Message-ID: <148785261852.OAA03652@mailrout4.ub.net.id>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


The celebrated Stanley Morgan StockMarket Newsletter
projects new highs in all the major U.S. market indices. (Asia
crisis=U.S. slowdown=lower interest rates=higher stock prices.)

Our top stock selections include:

Cisco Systems     CSCO     76

Excite            XCIT     53

Mark I Inds.      MKII      1 1/8

We anticipate EXPLOSIVE upside movement in the above
group. http://quote.yahoo.com/

Send no money, sample issue: Dept. WIN, P.O. Box 30499, Seven Mile
Beach, Grand Cayman, B.W.I.           















From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 21:43:13 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Structure of MISTY
Message-ID: <199805270443.GAA18680@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



http://www.mitsubishi.com/ghp_japan/misty/200misty.htm

        





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jan 
Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 02:50:01 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: PGP v6.0 & OpenPGP
Message-ID: <356BE23C.EB31683A@kki.net.pl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Greetings.

I've heard these two are going to come out one day soon.
What I'm interested in is what's so new in it that it's being called
version 6.0... Thanks in advance.

And my second message is about my archive. The reason why it hadn't
been updated to something worthwhile is the fact that i need to
spell-check the archives i download. There are tons of errors in them.
It's 
just too bad that people don't spell check their own documents on the
net.

Sincerely,
Jan




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "James M. Atkinson, Comm-Eng" 
Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 16:34:30 -0700 (PDT)
To: FraudAlert@tscm.com
Subject: Fraud Alert - Frank Jones - Spyking
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Greetings,

I regret to inform you that you may have been the victim of a serious hoax
foisted by Frank Jones (aka: SpyKing).

Many people, including the members of the media, have been swallowing what
Frank Jones has to offer, simply because they neither understand the
science or won't do even simple research on a vendor (hint: the TEMPEST,
DATASCAN and similar products are an utter hoax).

You may be interested in the following information regarding Frank Jones
which we have listed on the Threat Profile Library.

	http://www.tscm.com/FNJspyking.html


We would encourage you to examine the materials in the Threat Profile
Library, and then to review your own dealings with the subject.

We also recommend that you carefully review the documents, and then contact
those agencies directly yourself (they would be happy to talk to you).

Each of the agencies (such as NY PI Lisc. Board, and NY Police Department)
will gladly provide you with authentication of the documents we present and
will gladly send you copies of the original documents (just ask them). They
will verify the documents are indeed genuine and were generated by their
agencies. Of course Frank claims that all of the documents in the library
have been forged and are counterfit (which is a hilarious claim).

Please feel free to verify the documents, in fact we strongly encourage it!!!

You may seriously want to reconsider your attendance at SpookTec98 as
several of the victims (and "Guest Speakers") who attended last year were
not at all amused (some of whom where burned when their promised "limo and
free hotel room" never showed up).

Good Luck,

-jma


 =======================================================================
          Everybody's into computers... Who's into yours?
 =======================================================================
  James M. Atkinson                             Phone: (978) 546-3803
  Granite Island Group - TSCM.COM
  127 Eastern Avenue #291                        http://www.tscm.com/
  Gloucester, MA 01931                          mailto:jmatk@tscm.com
 =======================================================================
  The First, The Largest, The Most Popular, and The Most Complete TSCM,
    Technical Security, and Counterintelligence Site on the Internet.
 =======================================================================






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: KevB428@aol.com
Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 23:59:06 -0700 (PDT)
To: KevB428@aol.com
Subject: [OWC] Orangemen Wrestling Commision [ handbook v. 1 ]
Message-ID: <30738df8.356d0611@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


===========================
  Kevin Riley Productions Presents
===========================
  /ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ\ŻŻŻ\         /ŻŻŻŻŻŻ/ŻŻŻŻ|
 /               \     \      /          /_____|
 |    |ŻŻŻ|     |      \/Ż\/         //
 |    |___|     |                   /  \
 \               /\        _       /     ŻŻŻŻŻ|
  \_______/   \___/  \___/ \_______|
===========================
 Orangmen Wrestling Commission
===========================
 Frequently Asked Questions v.1.0
===========================

==================
Table of Contents
   A. Foreward
   B. Cards & Titles
   C. Rules
   D. Roleplaying Tips
   E. Application
   F. Staff

==================

==================
A. Foreward
==================

            Hello folks, I'm Kevin Riley, and I'm making my _last_ attempt at
making a federation great.   This is make-it or break-it time for me, and I
really am determined
to bring this federation into the bigtime.

            The OWC stands for Orangemen Wrestling Commision, which is a
regional federation (similiar to MVW, and also a friend of that fed) that is
run out of none other
than Syracuse, New York.   It will not be having cards in Madision Square
Garden, as it will start off slow, like most independants, and hopefully work
its way up.   This fed
will actually start off holding their cards in a local nightclub in Syracuse
that we all
know as the Rave, which seats about three hundred people.

            This federation will be run by Carson Bordon, the current OWC
President.
He and Riley got a huge loan from a bank in Albany, New York, and now have
made
their last attempt at making a major federation.  The recruiting has started,
and calls
have been made, contracts sent.   So, are you ready to join the OWC and face
some of the toughest, and newest competition that you've ever seen?  If so,
welcome!

==================
B. Cards & Titles
==================

The New York State Heavyweight Championship - This is definitly the big one.
The top dawg will be the man holding this title and it will definitly be a
title that a lot of
people will be contender for.   This title shall be defended every two weeks.

The Syracuse Heavyweight Championship - This is the secondary title, and we'll
also be heavily competed for.  This is for the people not quite ready to make
it onto the
world title scene yet.   This title will also be defended once every two
weeks.

Warriors of Syracuse Wrestling - This is the card that will be held once a
week, on
Sunday nights.   There should be around three to four matches on each card and
as the fed expands, the amount of matches will as well.  There will also be
interviews,
special appearances, and everything that you'd come to expect from a normal
wrestling television show!  It will take place in the Rave, a local Syracuse
night club that holds up to three hundred people total.

The first card will be presented to you on the twenty first of June.  It will
feature more matches than the normal card, and will attempt to get _every_
single wrestler in the
federation, somehow participating in a match or something of some sort.  It
will be a sort of supercard, but will be on Sunday, and called, the Warriors
of Syracuse wrestling, like the normal weekly show.

==================
C. Rules
==================

I will accept a maxium of two roleplays a week and one in-ring.   To start the
OWC off, we'll be going with the one card a week format, if we get pushed to
two cards a
week, then it will be two in-rings, one for each card.  Please be reminded,
that this
plan of roleplays is tentative, and could be changed.

Strats will play a huge role in setting up angles, and will also count towards
your matches and my decisions as to who wins or not.

Some wrestlers, specifically heels, are particulary good at drawing heat, and
getting
themselves known quicker than others.  That will also help out your chances.

This is a perfect time to repeat that phrase that we all know, quality not
quantity!


==================
D. Roleplaying Tips
==================

* Content

     The content of one's roleplay is not the length the roleplay but the one
or many message(s) that the roleplay gets across in that length.  Content is
by far the most important part of a roleplay, and must be looked upon as
essential.  A roleplay without any content is just jabber and jargon thrown
into a file.  You must always have some sort of content in your roleplays.
     When you begin a roleplay, you must set a goal for amount of content you
want to cover during the course of your OWC roleplay.  Tell yourself what, in
a brief rundown, that you want to tell everybody in this roleplay of yours.
If you want to tell the whole OWC that you are here to stay and to pledge your
allegiance to the OWC, then remember that fact while you are writing your
roleplay.  Never write a roleplay with out any topics to write about.
     If you want to know if your roleplay has any content, then read it over
and ask yourself what the message you got across was.  If you can't answer
that question in a breif sentance or two, then the chances are, you have no
body and content to your roleplay and you need to start over and try again.
     The more topics you have to discuss, the better.  You can never have
enough content.  If you have enough topics to write 5 pages or so, then so be
it and go though with it.  Also, you should learn to elaborate on your topics
and make them into a 'big deal'.  If your topic is "I want to challenge Klonis
to a match" then ask yourself all the possible questions to stimulate ideas!
Ask yourself why you want to wrestle Klonis.  Ask yourself how good of a
chance you have at defeating Klonis.  Ask yourself what type of match you want
to challenge Klonis to.  Ask youself when you want to wrestle Klonis!  The
possibilities are endless, people!  Cover every area and aspect you can!
     Sometimes when I'm going to write a roleplay, it helps me to make a breif
listing of the different things I want to cover during the course of the
roleplay in chronological order.  I then procede to turn the breif sentances
into dialouge and description and under normal circumstances I come out with a
somewhat decent roleplay that has both a point and a decent amount of
reasoning behind it.  It makes sense, people.
     The main thing you have to remember, though, when writing your roleplay
... is that you must develop your character.  Get a good idea of what your
character's all about by re-reading your application to the OWC, and then put
that all across in the roleplay.  If you're wrestler is a happy goofball, then
play him as a happy goofball and don't have him take matches or wins and
losses too seriuosly.  If you wrestler is a hard-nosed technical wrestler
obsessed with winning, then have him take things seriously and be quite angry
when he loses.  It's all about character development and if you don't have any
idea how your character should act, then it's probably time to create a new
one.

* Length

     Length certainly isn't the most important part of your roleplay, but it
is something that you must seriously consider if you're a newbie.  You're
roleplay MUST be at least a k or two to get anything across, in my opinion.
Although it is hard to find the happy medium between too long and too short,
you'll get there if you follow these steps!
     First of all, don't wear your topic down so much that nobody is going to
be interested in reading it anymore.  Cover what you need but don't exasperate
the subject.  Nobody wants to read a roleplay that's 20k and has no plot!
Once you stop having fun writing your roleplay it's probably finished.
     But also, you must not send in a roleplay that is 3 lines long or even a
paragraph long.  In the OWC, everytime you send in a roleplay that is 5 or
less lines, that's pretty much an automatic loss.  Make your roleplay to the
point but long enough so it'll take a few minutes to read and leave the reader
with a good taste in their mouth and a good idea what your character is about.
Touch base with the subject quite a bit and make it long enough.

* Detail

     The next thing that you newbies must learn is that you must always create
a beginning and a conclusion in your roleplays!  At the beginning of your
roleplay, you must _always_ give a breif description of your wrestler's
setting and describe that wrestler.  A setting description tells the who,
what, where, when and why of the roleplay.  A beginning is also put inside
action bars which are () or [] or :: :: or {}.  In a beginning, you should
describe what the character is wearing, what his mood is like, where his is,
what he's doing there, ect.  For example, read the next paragraph which is one
of my less recent descriptions and was written when I was a newbie to e-
wrestling.  Most should be about this length and decency.  Maybe better.
     [The screen fades in to Klonis.  He's sitting in a dark living room
rocking back and forth on an easychair.  He's wearing his street clothes which
consist of a pair of faded denimn jeans, a black tank top, and a nike
headband.  His black hair is slicked back and his eyes are squinted and
feirce.  The only illumination in the room is cast by a fireplace with the
embers slowly dying out.  The cameraman gives him a closup as signals to come
over to him.]
     Also, you must remember to add a conclusion.  The conclusion is more of
the same except it would say things like, Klonis is fading out, ect.  Be
careful not to make these too drab.  It can get tricky to think up the setting
some times.  
     Another thing, is that you must watch the spelling in your roleplay and
try to word things as efficiently and as nicely as possible.  Go through the
document numerous times to make sure you did not make any foolish spelling
mistakes, make sure you add two spaces after a period, you inserted commas
where needed, you did not have any fragments or run-ons.  Don't make yourself
look foolish by saying stuff like this:
     (Wrtler): "im cmin to getg you cuz of what you ded to me that tyme when u
did dat thing.."

==================
E. Application
==================

IMPORTANT NOTE:  This federation is taking a new approach.  We will prefer
that you all bring in _new_ characters that you've never before used.  That
way reputations and egos will not be as much of a problem.  This is not
mandatory, but I prefer it.

 * Your Name: (optional)
 * Your Age: (optional)
 * Your E-Mail Address:
 * Your IRC Nickname:

 * Wrestler's Name:
 * Age:
 * Hometown:
 * Hair Color:
 * Eye Color:

 * Height: (between 5'5" - 7'0")
 * Weight: (between 200 - 500)
 * Build: (stocky, muscular, trim, ect.)

 * Manager or Valet's Name: (optional)
 * Describe Manager or Valet: (optional)

 * Please describe your wrestler's ring style:  (anything from technician to
lucha to powerful, ect.)

 * Please describe your wrestler's gimmick/attitude/personality as much
  as you can:

 * Please give us a little background on your wrestler (perhaps a made-up
  history-- we just want to get a good idea of who your character is):

 * Entrance Music (please use an actual song, I don't want to see "The
  Giant's WCW Music"):

 * Describe your wrestler's entrance to the ring (does he have fireworks,
  special lights, anything he does before he gets to the ring... if you
  are creating a tag team, skip this category and fill out Tag Team
  Entrance on the Tag Team sheet instead):

 * Describe your wrestler's physical appearance (please be as descriptive
  as possible!):

 * Describe your wrestler's ring attire (again, please be descriptive!):

 * Taunts (does your wrestler do any taunts or celebrations to his opponent
during the course of the matchup?  If so, mark his celebrations here!)

 * What is the name of your wrestler's finisher?
 * What is the real name of the move?

 * List 10 - 15 moves your wrestler performs:

==================
F. Staff
==================

Fictional Staff:

PRESIDENT - Carson Bordon
HEEL COMMENTATOR - Max Femmia
FACE COMMENTATOR - Nathan Liotta
RING ANNOUNCER - Michael Morgan
SENIOR REFEREE - Christopher Burk
TIMEKEEPER - Otto Jeckel
CHEIF OF SECURITY - Robert O'Connor

Staff:

PRESIDENT - Kevin Riley
ASSISTANT BOOKER - Rick Baptist (Also a promoter, recruiter, pay per view
writer.)
CARD MATCH WRITER - Paul Clark
CARD MATCH WRITER - ????????
CARD MATCH WRITER - ????????
PAY PER VIEW WRITER -  Rick Baptist
PAY PER VIEW WRITER -  Jay Ralston
PAY PER VIEW WRITER -  Andru Edwards
PAY PER VIEW WRITER -  Thomas Smith
PAY PER VIEW WRITER -  Adam Graves
ASSISTANT -  Anthony Brigano  (promoter, recruiter, and will keep rankings for
the wrestlers and annals, which is a list of results for every card)

[NOTE:  If you can help in any of these spots, _please_ tell me.  To keep this
federation great, I'm going to need all the help I can get, this is _very_
important.]

=============================
Special thanks to Anthony Brigano for
helping me make this handbook, and
helping make the macros, and well,
helping recruiting!
=============================
OWC, Orangemen Wrestling Commission
Max Femmia, Nathan Liotta, Carson Bordon
and all related names, characters and their
likenesses are copyright and trademark
Kevin Riley Productions (KRP) 1998.
=============================






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: one4evil@juno.com (Nalus Optic)
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 16:10:38 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Lack of net access blows:
Message-ID: <19980528.071047.4222.8.one4evil@juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Cyberpunks,
	
	Que pasa?  My name is D and I am new to the list...I will most
likely just be lurking for a while, till I get a visit from the Duel
Pentium II 266, 128megs of RAM, running Linux on one PII and Win98 on the
Other Fariy...She should be along by the end of the summer...

	Anywhoo, the point of the subject is that at this point and time
I don't have net access so I was hopeing someone out there would send me
the FAQ that is talked of in the welcome message.  It can be found at:

	anonymous ftp to rtfm.mit.edu:pub/usenet-by-group/sci.crypt

	At least I think that is where it is at...

	I thank who ever is nice enough to send it to me...Also, maybe
post a message to me as soon as you send it...That way I don't end up
with like all of you sending it and Juno kicking my ass again for
flooding there box.


			TNX,

			D.

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 05:14:00 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Public Key Royalties
Message-ID: <199805281213.IAA04745@camel14.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


[Forward]

:
:
:
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 03:17:16 -0400
To: John Young 
From: Vin McLellan 
Subject: Public Key Royalties

Hi John:

	You recently posted a note from a 5/7/98 GAO report[*] on federal
(Bayh-Dole Act) funding for US research universities in which documented
MIT's 1996 revenues from the commercialization of public key crypto. In an
accompanying note, you raised a few questions about the historical
background of PKC that I thought a deserved response.

	The politics of crypto in the US is burdened with enough shadowy
plots that it behooves those of us who try to track the history of the
industry to keep a grip on simple historical fact whenever we can.

	I personally think the key figures involved in the discovery of PKC
-- certainly Whit Diffie, Martin Hellman, Ron Rivest and Len Adleman --
have for years been exemplary role-models of personal and intellectual
discipline, professional openness, and forthright political engagment (in
the best sense of the word). I wouldn't like to see the public's
understanding of their contributions lost beneath another layer of
Byzantine conspiracy theories.

	You wrote:

>In a recent GAO report on governmental funding of university research
>there is this note:
>
>   In fiscal year 1996, the commercialization of the public key encryption
>   method, which was developed under grants from the Navy and NSF,
>   resulted in $271,875 in royalties to MIT.
>
>Does this refer to RSA or PGP? Did the Navy underwrite RSA's PK work?
>If so does the USG have a secret stake in PGP, Network Associates
>and RSA?
>
>More: did the Navy guide PK researchers based on the secret UK PK work
>before Diffie-Hellman?

	Quick answers to your first questions:

	(1) RSA. RSA Data Security Inc.(RSADSI), a company started by the
three inventors of the RSA cryptosystem was given a contract by MIT to
commercialize the RSA cryptosystem. Under the terms of that contract,
RSADSI pays royalties to MIT, which still owns the RSA patent.

	(2) Nope. The Office of Naval Research (ONI) did staff the
"contracting office" responsible for administering DARPA funding for the
MIT labs where Rivest, Shamir, and Adleman did their initial work -- but
neither the Navy, nor DARPA, nor the NSA, nor the CIA, nor the Feebees
supported the subsequent development of public key cryptography at RSADSI
(the company started by the three inventors which was subsequently given an
exclusive contract by MIT to commercialize the RSA algorithm.)

	(3) No secret stake in RSADSI -- so say the sworn documents filed
with the SEC before the 1996 merger of RSADSI and SDTI. PGP was not
developed at MIT. PGP has never paid royalties to MIT. I don't actually
know if there is, or ever was, any relationship or federal "stake" in PGP
Inc. or Network Associates Inc., but I doubt it. (I also think your
suggestion, without evidence, is a fairly gratuitous slander against all
these firms -- given the historic interest of US government agencies in
weakening non-government crypto and/or forcing independent cryptographic
vendors to corrupt their designs with backdoors to allow surreptitous

government access to encrypted messages and files.)

	As you may recall, I do a lot of consulting for Security Dynamics
(SDTI), which purchased RSADSI in 1996.  I sent your questions over to Ron
Rivest, and he asked me to pass along his response:

>The work on RSA at MIT was supported by NSF grant MCS76-14294 and ONR
>(Office of Naval Research) grant N00014-67-A-0204-0063. (See the
>footnote on the original RSA paper.)  I note that the ONR is the
>contracting office for a DARPA grant here; the "Navy" as such was not
>involved.
>
>(The grants listed above did not even specify cryptography in their
>proposals, and it was more of a courtesy than anything else to
>acknowledge their support on the RSA paper, since they were supporting
>other research in algorithms and such.)
>
>As a consequence of this support, the U.S. government does not have to
>pay royalties on the "RSA patent" (U.S. patent 4,405,829.)  This is a
>standard arrangement for government-supported research; the government
>doesn't want to have to pay twice for the work.
>
>There is no "secret stake" by the government in RSA.  The royalty-free
>license of the patent is their only involvement.
>
>There was no contact, influence, or involvement from any government
>source regarding our development of RSA.  Assuming (correctly, I
>believe) that the Diffe-Hellman paper (New Directions in Cryptography)
>was developed independently of any similar developments in the U.K.,
>then the academic development of the concept of public-key, and our
>consequent development of RSA, were totally independent of whatever
>developments happened earlier in the U.K.
>
>Indeed, given the reaction from the government that we've seen ever
>since, trying to control and/or suppress public-key technology, it is
>extremely bizarre to conjecture that the government in any way
>encouraged it early on or gave technical advice based on work in the U.K.

	I suggest anyone interested in the work on "dual key" cryptography
by British government cryptographers in the early 1970s will want to read
Jame Ellis' fascinating paper, published last December by the British
government, at: http://www.cesg.gov.uk/ellisint.htm  There was also a brief
but helpful NYT article by Peter Wayner, available at:
http://www.nytimes.com/library/cyber/week/122497encrypt.html

	There have doubtless been numerous breakthroughs and great
inventions in the shadowy world of government cryptography. Unfortunately,
the hostility of this (and most governments) have shown toward allowing
such privacy-enabling technologies to fall into the hands of mere citizens
will probably mean that we will have to wait for those inventions to be
rediscovered and thus made available to the free world by others.

	I think we were all lucky that public key crypto -- the necessary
foundation for on-line electronic commerce, which in turn is seen by many
as potentially the economic engine for 21st Century -- was discovered, or
rediscovered, by mere citizens who looked first to its personal and
commercial implications.

	I don't think there was a chance in hell that GCHQ, or the NSA
(which also claims to have separately discovered PKC ten years before

Hellman and Diffie conceived of it) could have recognized its personal or
commercial potential... or would have allowed it to come into the
widespread use we see today if, perchance, they _had_ foreseen that
potential.

	Please feel free to post this. Thanks again for all your work
collecting the treasure trove of documents you have at jya.com.  It's an
invaluable resource.

	Surete,

		_Vin

-----
"Cryptography is like literacy in the Dark Ages. Infinitely potent, for
good and ill... yet basically an intellectual construct, an idea, which by
its nature will resist efforts to restrict it to bureaucrats and others who
deem only themselves worthy of such Privilege."
_ A thinking man's Creed for Crypto/ vbm.

*     Vin McLellan + The Privacy Guild +     *
  53 Nichols St., Chelsea, MA 02150 USA <617> 884-5548

[End Forward]

* See report: http://jya.com/rced-98-126.txt  (184K)




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: glowing@americanteleport.com
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 13:25:39 -0700 (PDT)
To: glowing@americanteleport.com
Subject: HOW DO YOU HANDLE AN ERRANT WIFE?
Message-ID: <00caa5558121c58MAIL@americanteleport.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


....................................................................................................................
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If you are offended by this type of material please do not open this
object!! If you are not then please enjoy it !!  We try to please !!

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___________________________________________________________________

"So, what are you gonna do...spank me?"

The poor salesgirl blushed a deep red as those words came flying out of
Lindas' mouth. I looked at her for a moment then said, "That's exactly what
you need young lady, something to adjust this attitude of yours!" Linda
flushed slightly at this announcement (she always does right before) gave me
a nasty look and began to turn away, I grabbed the sleve of her coat to stop
her. As I pulled her around to face me the 'look' became her pout, there was
little resistance as I propelled her towards the door of the shop. "Keep
that gift there," I said to the clerk, "we'll be back in a few minutes."

We had talked about a semi-public spanking for her, when a few others knew
what would happen to her. There was also the prospect of an accidental
audience. 

7 PM, the parking lot was dimly lit, there were a lot of cars and I had
parked close to the center of the lot. It was a chilly night but about to
'warm-up' for Linda!  Her heels made a sharp 'click' 'click' as we walked
across the cold pavement.
"Shit...I have to go back in there and face her...don't I?"
"Yes, that's the idea, tears, sore bottom and all!"
"Oh shit...does it have to be too...hard?"
"You know the idea, red face, red ass, as hard as I can spank in the back seat."
"Just your hand...only a spanking...nothing else?"
"No, not my hand at all. I brought that little clear paddle that we bought
from 'Glowing Results' just for tonight, I wanted to make sure that there
were tears. Remember how much that stings?"

We arrived at the car, I directed her to the passengers side rear door.
After a fast look around at the other vehicles I turned Linda to face me,
shook my finger in front of her nose and said, "Get in the back seat young
lady, you've earned this one!" The pout was still there as she turned and
entered the back door, I closed it firmly. Sliding in on the drivers side, I
turned to face Linda.

Mother was about to get a REAL spanking!!

____________________________________________________________________







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 06:27:32 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: USG to Sue Other Wintel
Message-ID: <199805281327.JAA06789@camel14.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


New York Times reports today that the FTC is shortly
to file a major anti-trust suit against Intel, "charging
the company with abusing its position as the dominant
manufacturer of mircoprocessor chips."

   http://www.nytimes.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Beattie, Doug" 
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 06:59:56 -0700 (PDT)
To: Luis Saiz 
Subject: RE: The exponent of the RSA public key must be odd.??
Message-ID: <8D3B7E46799CCF118D9D00805FE28A1E03E6AB09@ndhm06.ndhm.gtegsc.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



The exponent must be relatively prime to (p-1)(q-1) where p and q are prime
numbers.

Doug

On Thursday, May 28, 1998 4:14 AM, Luis Saiz [SMTP:LSaiz@atos-ods.com]
wrote:
> OS/390 Integrated Cryptographic Service Facility Application
> Programmer's Guide Version 2 Release 5 Publication No. SC23-3976-02
> :
>  http://ppdbooks.pok.ibm.com:80/cgi-
>  bin/bookmgr/bookmgr.cmd/DOCNUM/SC23-3976/CCONTENTS
> 
> 
> 
> In several parts of the document it's specified that, as a
> restriction:
> 
> 
> > The exponent of the RSA public key must be odd.
> >
> It's there any (unknown to me) security reason to be this way, or
> it´s
> an implementation/standard option??
> 
> 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Luis Saiz 
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 01:21:02 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks 
Subject: The exponent of the RSA public key must be odd.??
Message-ID: <356D1CA8.C39ABB94@atos-ods.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


OS/390 Integrated Cryptographic Service Facility Application
Programmer's Guide Version 2 Release 5 Publication No. SC23-3976-02 :
 http://ppdbooks.pok.ibm.com:80/cgi-bin/bookmgr/bookmgr.cmd/DOCNUM/SC23-3976/CCONTENTS



In several parts of the document it's specified that, as a restriction:


> The exponent of the RSA public key must be odd.
>
It's there any (unknown to me) security reason to be this way, or it´s
an implementation/standard option??







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Sunder 
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 07:41:57 -0700 (PDT)
To: Luis Saiz 
Subject: Re: The exponent of the RSA public key must be odd.??
In-Reply-To: <356D1CA8.C39ABB94@atos-ods.com>
Message-ID: <356D7682.D989D46B@brainlink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


How many prime numbers do you know of that are even?

Luis Saiz wrote:
> 
> OS/390 Integrated Cryptographic Service Facility Application
> Programmer's Guide Version 2 Release 5 Publication No. SC23-3976-02 :
>  http://ppdbooks.pok.ibm.com:80/cgi-bin/bookmgr/bookmgr.cmd/DOCNUM/SC23-3976/CCONTENTS
> 
> In several parts of the document it's specified that, as a restriction:
> 
> > The exponent of the RSA public key must be odd.
> >
> It's there any (unknown to me) security reason to be this way, or it´s
> an implementation/standard option??

-- 

=====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos==============
.+.^.+.|  Ray Arachelian    |Prying open my 3rd eye.  So good to see |./|\.
..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were      |/\|/\
<--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run  |\/|\/
../|\..| "A toast to Odin,  |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/.
.+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were....            |.....
======================= http://www.sundernet.com ==========================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 12:41:06 -0700 (PDT)
To: ukcrypto@maillist.ox.ac.uk
Subject: Payne v. NSA: Plaintiff's Motion and Objection
Message-ID: <356DBB9A.44E8@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


John Young

Just saw

whp052898.htm      Payne v. NSA: Plaintiff's Motion and Objection    May
28, 1998

at http://www.jya.com/crypto.htm

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

And for

  http://www.mckennacuneo.com/practice/Quitam/QU02519960901.html

too!	

We need visibility to get this HORRIBLE MESS SETTLED. PEACEFULLY!

There are other ways of settling matters.  

Aggrieved Shiite Muslims have a fair record at other means of settlement

  http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/impact/namir/martyrs.htm#allvictims

I want to get this settled and revise my book for the 80c52. 

 
http://www.apcatalog.com/cgi-bin/AP?ISBN=0125475705&LOCATION=US&FORM=FORM2

and maybe do something more with shift registers too 

  http://av.yahoo.com/bin/query?p=gfsr&hc=0&hs=

Best
bill






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Xcott Craver 
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 12:40:04 -0700 (PDT)
To: Luis Saiz 
Subject: Re: The exponent of the RSA public key must be odd.??
In-Reply-To: <356D88D7.1D480241@atos-ods.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Thu, 28 May 1998, Luis Saiz wrote:

> OK, I've never realized that e and d must both be co-prime with respect to (p-1)(q-1), 
> only that ed=1 mod((p-1)(q-1)), and I didn't saw the implication.

	Actually, that the exponent must be odd is much more immediate:

	If ed = 1 mod(p-1)(q-1), then
	   ed = 1 + multiple*(p-1)(q-1)
	      = 1 + multiple*(even #)
	      = 1 + even # = odd #.

	If either e or d were even, this couldn't be true.

							-Xcott

	[This same argument, by the way, is how you prove that 
	 e and d must both be co-prime to phi(n).  Just let 
	 C be any divisor of phi(n), and replace "even" with
	 "divisible by C" and "odd" with "not divisible by C"]




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 62627874@19214.com
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 17:39:35 -0700 (PDT)
To: success@nowhere.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199702170025.GAA08056@nowhere.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Phonenumbers all over the world www.PhoneNumbers.net




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 14:09:20 -0700 (PDT)
To: kalliste@aci.net>
Subject: Mrs [Delicate Touch] Hanks
Message-ID: <356DD1B6.771F@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Thursday 5/28/98 2:48 PM

John Young
J Orlin Grabbe

On return from my walk this afternoon, I spoke with
Mrs [Delicate Touch] Hanks

http://207.33.92.15/art/va/artworkSearch.html$search
http://www.eslawrence.com/Hankspage.htm
http://www.artcorner.com/
http://www.sea-art.com/hadleyhouse/hanks/index.cfm
http://www.eslawrence.com/hankprint.htm
http://www.birchgrove.com/artists/steve%20hanks.htm
http://www.artsource1.com/hanks.html
http://www.nice-things.com/hanks.html

who lives just down the street from us.

I asked her if the large edition being built on top of the
previous single-story home was going to be a studio.

She responded in American.  "Yah"

Occasionally I see some REALLY GOOD LOOKING women outside Hanks' home.

We REALLY should get this UNFORTUNATE MATTER settled before it gets
WORSE.

And it looks like it is getting WORSE.  http://www.jya.com/whp052898.htm

Later
bill






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 12:51:37 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Asymmetric Warfare
Message-ID: <199805281951.PAA25901@camel14.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 15:34:10 -0500
From: "90. USAFnews" 

980734.  Special operations commander outlines future threats
by Capt. John Paradis
16th Special Operations Wing Public Affairs

HURLBURT FIELD, Fla. (AFNS) -- More Chechnyas.  If a military strategist
needed to look at a good model for the typical future conflict, the war
torn republic of Chechnya comes to mind, said Gen. Peter J. Schoomaker,
U.S. Special Operations Command commander in chief.

Speaking recently to about 2,000 Hurlburt Field troops at the 55th
Aircraft Maintenance Unit hangar, Schoomaker said the only certainty in
the future of warfare is that security challenges will be more ambiguous
and will follow less traditional paths.

Looking at Chechnya as an example of future conflict, confrontation will
likely differ from the more conventional and familiar "total war" by the
inclination of future adversaries to use "psychological terror" and the
influence of international media, the Internet and even cell phones to
employ open brutality as an information warfare tactic.

Russian President Boris Yeltsin, determined to crush the secessionist
drive of the tiny, mainly Muslim southern republic, ordered about 40,000
troops into Chechnya in December 1994.  What was planned as a quick
campaign turned into a long and costly war, in which the outnumbered
rebels time and again dealt heavy blows to a demoralized Russian
military.

It's such "asymmetric" opponents like separatists, rebel groups,
insurgents and terrorists that U.S. special operations forces will need
to prepare for -- enemies who won't attack U.S. strategic strengths, but
will instead target U.S. vulnerabilities by executing unorthodox
measures to gain success, Schoomaker said.

"That's the future.  More Chechnyas," the general said.   "We are going
to see more conflict of this nature because it's a much different world
we're facing."




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Luis Saiz 
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 08:55:03 -0700 (PDT)
To: Sunder 
Subject: Re: The exponent of the RSA public key must be odd.??
In-Reply-To: <356D1CA8.C39ABB94@atos-ods.com>
Message-ID: <356D88D7.1D480241@atos-ods.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Sunder wrote:

> How many prime numbers do you know of that are even?
>

One: 2  ;-)

OK, I've never realized that e and d must both be co-prime with respect to (p-1)(q-1), only
that ed=1 mod((p-1)(q-1)), and I didn't saw the implication.

Sorry for this stupid question, next time I'll do more mathematics before.


> Luis Saiz wrote:
> >
> > OS/390 Integrated Cryptographic Service Facility Application
> > Programmer's Guide Version 2 Release 5 Publication No. SC23-3976-02 :
> >  http://ppdbooks.pok.ibm.com:80/cgi-bin/bookmgr/bookmgr.cmd/DOCNUM/SC23-3976/CCONTENTS
> >
> > In several parts of the document it's specified that, as a restriction:
> >
> > > The exponent of the RSA public key must be odd.
> > >
> > It's there any (unknown to me) security reason to be this way, or it´s
> > an implementation/standard option??
>
> --
>
> =====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos==============
> .+.^.+.|  Ray Arachelian    |Prying open my 3rd eye.  So good to see |./|\.
> ..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were      |/\|/\
> <--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run  |\/|\/
> ../|\..| "A toast to Odin,  |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/.
> .+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were....            |.....
> ======================= http://www.sundernet.com ==========================







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 18:01:02 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Asymmetric Warfare
In-Reply-To: <199805281951.PAA25901@camel14.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 12:49 PM -0700 5/28/98, John Young wrote:
>Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 15:34:10 -0500
>From: "90. USAFnews" 
>
>980734.  Special operations commander outlines future threats
>by Capt. John Paradis
>16th Special Operations Wing Public Affairs
>
>HURLBURT FIELD, Fla. (AFNS) -- More Chechnyas.  If a military strategist
>needed to look at a good model for the typical future conflict, the war
>torn republic of Chechnya comes to mind, said Gen. Peter J. Schoomaker,
>U.S. Special Operations Command commander in chief.
....

Yes, Chechnya is the model for the U.S. to follow: the Central Authority
attempting to crush a local rebellion by shelling cities, razing farms,
shooting suspected rebels without trials, and blockading entire provinces
to starve them into submission.

As the United States increasingly moves toward police state status and
chooses smaller nations to pick on (Panama, Somalia, Haiti, etc.), the
Armed Forces will come to resemble a domestic army. Something the Founders
were adamantly opposed to (between "no standing army" (ha!), Washington's
warning about avoiding foreign wars, and Posse Comitatus, which forbids a
domestic role for the Army).

>It's such "asymmetric" opponents like separatists, rebel groups,
>insurgents and terrorists that U.S. special operations forces will need
>to prepare for -- enemies who won't attack U.S. strategic strengths, but
>will instead target U.S. vulnerabilities by executing unorthodox
>measures to gain success, Schoomaker said.
>

Sounds good to me, attacking the Central Authority.

We need to launch our own crippling attacks on the U.S. military
infrastructure--it has become a cancer on the nation. Hacking their
computers and misdirecting Galaxy 4 were only the opening shots in this new
war.

Crypto is our strongest weapon. They know it. And they want it crippled.


--Tim May

"The tree of liberty must be watered periodically with the blood of
tyrants...."
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist              | black markets, collapse of governments.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Xcott Craver 
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 18:16:15 -0700 (PDT)
To: Nalus Optic 
Subject: Re: Lack of net access blows:
In-Reply-To: <19980528.071047.4222.8.one4evil@juno.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Thu, 28 May 1998, Nalus Optic wrote:

> Cyberpunks,
> 	
> 	Que pasa?  My name is D and I am new to the list...I will most
> likely just be lurking for a while, till I get a visit from the Duel
> Pentium II 266, 128megs of RAM, running Linux on one PII and Win98 on the
> Other Fariy...She should be along by the end of the summer...

Hey, if you're a BeOS developer (and you can become one for free,) United 
Micro will give you a discount on a dual PII-266 system w/ 128 Megs.  I 
have just such a beast, and it ain't bad.  SMP rocks.  Haven't tried to 
put Windows on it, though. 

> 	Anywhoo, the point of the subject is that at this point and time
> I don't have net access so I was hopeing someone out there would send me
> the FAQ that is talked of in the welcome message.  It can be found at:

> 	anonymous ftp to rtfm.mit.edu:pub/usenet-by-group/sci.crypt

	Well sir, there's about 4 FAQs there, one of which is in
	10 parts.  What do you want?

	There's the Cryptography FAQ (the big one), the snake-oil
	FAQ, the RSA-Cryptography-today FAQ, and the SSL talk list
	FAQ.  The 10 parts of the big one:

		Overview		Public-key Cryptography
		Net Etiquette		Digital Signatures
		Basic Cryptology	Technical Miscellany
		Mathematical Cryptology	Other Miscellany
		Product Ciphers		References

	They range in size from 1-20 k, and ~100 k for the whole
	thing.
							-Xcott
		
 ,oooooooo8     o     ooooo@math.niu.edu  --  http://www.math.niu.edu/~caj/
o888'   `88   ,888.    888                                                 
888          ,8'`88.   888    "In Geometry, there is no royal hyperspace
888o.   ,oo ,8oooo88.  888   wormhole."  --Buck Euclid in the 25th century
`888oooo88 o88o  o888o 888                                                 
____________________8o888'_________________________________________________






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: cons0005@algonquinc.on.ca
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 19:27:54 -0700 (PDT)
To: tcmay@got.net
Subject: Re: D.A.R.E. and a Bullpup
In-Reply-To: <199805211707.NAA14117@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <199805290226.WAA15318@algnet.algonquinc.on.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Date sent:      	Thu, 21 May 1998 13:56:38 -0700
To:             	cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
From:           	Tim May 
Subject:        	D.A.R.E. and a Bullpup
Send reply to:  	Tim May 

> I often wear a t-shirt around town which reads:
> 
> 
> D.  A.  R.  E.
> 
> I turned in my parents
> and all I got was this
> lousy t-shirt
> 
I think you should get one:


If your a nigger,
I'm Aryan.






http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/8018/ 
http://wabakimi.carleton.ca/~nmarion/
http://www.engsoc.carleton.ca/~jproud/yash/
(For when you're bored)-PGPd Mail Preferred





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "snow" 
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 21:41:40 -0700 (PDT)
To: caj@math.niu.edu (Xcott Craver)
Subject: Re: Holy QPRNF...
In-Reply-To: <199805050043.TAA22628@baker.math.niu.edu>
Message-ID: <199805290335.WAA01861@smoke.suba.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


> http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/980504/ca_live_pi_1.html
> Summary:  Digimarc and Live Picture, Inc., team up to offer watermarking
> 	  services.  
> || ``Until very recently, the creative community was extremely skeptical of 
> || licensing and marketing their work over the Web, which they viewed as an 
> || absolute free-for-all,'' said Doug Dawirs, director of online services at 
> || The Workbook. ``Now these same people and companies are jumping in with 
> || both feet.''
> I hope no content creators mistakenly think that this is electronic
> content protection (possibly, one can say an aid to detect _unintentional_
> illicit use, but not intentional theft), or else there will be a 
> free-for-all of a legal kind a little further down the road.

	I work for a company who displays much of their work on the 
Web, and we are often sited by Digimarc as a "customer". 

	We (AFAICT) stoped bothering with their product (probably an older
version) simply because it didn't work. 

	I can take any image where the watermark IS NOT visible, and 
make it so that your scanning software doesn't work, yet most people wouldn't
notice a bloody thing. 

	Suckerware. 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Dave Emery 
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 20:10:26 -0700 (PDT)
To: Tim May 
Subject: Re: Satellite processing (was Re: DRUDGE-REPORT-EXCLUSIVE pablum)
In-Reply-To: <7iF8Pe1w165w@decode.com>
Message-ID: <19980528231016.A16286@die.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Thu, May 28, 1998 at 06:22:16PM -0700, Tim May wrote:

> 
> ROMs currently have no sensitivity to cosmic rays or alpha particles from
> natural radioactivity in the environment, and are not expected to. Single
> event upsets typically happen with cross-coupled static RAM cells or with
> dynamic RAMs. _Some_ errors happen in logic circuits, including
> microprocessors, but not many.
> 
> No doubt some examples of reported errors in ROM circuits can be found, but
> I suspect the errors are either in the decode logic or elsewhere, and
> certainly not in the mask-programmable bits or the blown fuse sections.
> Lots of ROM types exist, so I don't want to try to list all major types
> here.
> 
> Some EAROMs (Electrically Alterable) or EEPROMs (Electrically Erasable) are
> sensitive to some radiation events, but not nearly as sensitive as RAM
> chips are. The IEEE Transactions on Nuclear Science, the December issue of
> every year, is devoted to reporting on actual sensitivity levels and
> physical mechanisms.

	I certainly defer to your expertise, as I have no particular
knowlage of radiation effects aside from reading an occasional technical
paper or article touching on the subject tangentially.   What I should
have said in any case is damage to  Flash EPROM or other electrically
programmed EPROM, as several people have pointed out that fuse and mask
programmed ROMs are not at all subject to single event radiation damage.
I suppose that  ROMs on board a satellite could easily afford to be
masked types, but of course there still are sound engineering reasons to
keep ROM'd code as minimal, simple and straighforward as possible, especially
when it cannot ever be changed and hundreds of millions of dollars of
satellite depends on it.



-- 
	Dave Emery N1PRE,  die@die.com  DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass. 
PGP fingerprint = 2047/4D7B08D1 DE 6E E1 CC 1F 1D 96 E2  5D 27 BD B0 24 88 C3 18





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSqncrs@aol.com
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 22:10:22 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Timmy Mc Veigh
Message-ID: <97a8ae6d.356e42ee@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


In a message dated 5/28/98 10:41:37 PM Central Daylight Time,
nobody@nsm.htp.org quotes:

<< ... It seems ironic and hypocritical that an act as viciously condemned
 in Oklahoma City is now a "justified" response to a problem in a
 foreign land. Then again, the history of United States policy over
 the last century, when examined fully, tends to exemplify
 hypocrisy. ... >>

I tell you folks, that's some of the best written propaganda I've ever seen. 

Here's it's only faults that I see.  Tim McVeigh is now taking the position
that the OKCity bombing was a bad thing.  I don't ever recall him ever taking
that position before.  And, while his post recognizes the old saying '2 wrongs
don't make a right', the post still goes against that saying (thanks to his
history.)

But he's definitely got some valid points as to how it relates to the USA's
use of weapons of mass destruction and Iraq, it's an excellent argument for
that.

Stan




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@nsm.htp.org
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 20:08:12 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Timmy Mc Veigh
Message-ID: <19980529030659.16949.qmail@nsm.htp.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Text of essay said written by Timothy McVeigh - something
	to think about.

May 28, 1998
Web posted at: 10:10 p.m. EDT (0210 GMT)

(AP) -- The June 1998 issue of Media Bypass Magazine includes this
essay it says was written by Timothy McVeigh:

The administration has said that Iraq has no right to stockpile
chemical or biological weapons ("weapons of mass destruction") --
mainly because they have used them in the past.

Well, if that's the standard by which these matters are decided,
then the U.S. is the nation that set the precedent. The U.S. has
stockpiled these same weapons (and more) for over 40 years. The
U.S. claims that this was done for deterrent purposes during its
"Cold War" with the Soviet Union. Why, then, is it invalid for Iraq
to claim the same reason (deterrence) -- with respect to Iraq's
(real) war with, and the continued threat of, its neighbor Iran?


The administration claims that Iraq has used these weapons in the
past. We've all seen the pictures that show a Kurdish woman and
child frozen in death from the use of chemical weapons. But, have
you ever seen these photos juxtaposed next to pictures from
Hiroshima or Nagasaki?

I suggest that one study the histories of World War I, World War II
and other "regional conflicts" that the U.S. has been involved in
to familiarize themselves with the use of "weapons of mass
destruction."

Remember Dresden? How about Hanoi? Tripoli? Baghdad? What about the
big ones -- Hiroshima and Nagasaki? (At these two locations, the
U.S. killed at least 150,000 non-combatants -- mostly women and
children -- in the blink of an eye. Thousands more took hours,
days, weeks, or months to die.)

If Saddam is such a demon, and people are calling for war crimes
charges against him and his nation, whey do we not hear the same
cry for blood directed at those responsible for even greater
amounts of "mass destruction" -- like those responsible and
involved in dropping bombs on the cities mentioned above?

The truth is, the U.S. has set the standard when it comes to the
stockpiling and use of weapons of mass destruction.

Hypocrisy when it comes to the death of children? In Oklahoma City,
it was family convenience that explained the presence of a day-care
center placed between street level and the law enforcement agencies
which occupied the upper floors of the building. Yet when
discussion shifts to Iraq, any day-care center in a government
building instantly becomes "a shield." Think about that.
(Actually, there is a difference here. The administration has
admitted to knowledge of the presence of children in or near Iraqi
government buildings, yet they still proceed with their plans to
bomb -- saying that they cannot be held responsible if children
die. There is no such proof, however, that knowledge of the
presence of children existed in relation to the Oklahoma City
bombing.)

When considering morality and "mens rea" (criminal intent) in light
of these facts, I ask: Who are the true barbarians?

Yet another example of this nation's blatant hypocrisy is revealed
by the polls which suggest that this nation is greatly in favor of
bombing Iraq.

In this instance, the people of the nation approve of bombing
government employees because they are "guilty by association" --
they are Iraqi government employees. In regard to the bombing in
Oklahoma City, however, such logic is condemned.

What motivates these seemingly contradictory positions? Do people
think that government workers in Iraq are any less human than those
in Oklahoma City? Do they think that Iraqis don't have families who
will grieve and mourn the loss of their loved ones? In this
context, do people come to believe that the killing of foreigners
is somehow different than the killing of Americans?

I recently read of an arrest in New York City where possession of a
mere pipe bomb was charged as possession of a "weapon of mass
destruction." If a two-pound pipe bomb is a "weapon of mass
destruction," then what do people think that a 2,000-pound
steel-encased bomb is?

I find it ironic, to say the least, that one of the aircraft that
could be used to drop such a bomb on Iraq is dubbed "The Spirit of
Oklahoma."

This leads me to a final, and unspoken, moral hypocrisy regarding
the use of weapons of mass destruction.

When a U.S. plane or cruise missile is used to bring destruction to
a foreign people, this nation rewards the bombers with applause and
praise. What a convenient way to absolve these killers of any
responsibility for the destruction they leave in their wake.

Unfortunately, the morality of killing is not so superficial. The
truth is, the use of a truck, a plane, or a missile for the
delivery of a weapon of mass destruction does not alter the nature
of the act itself.

These are weapons of mass destruction -- and the method of delivery
matters little to those on the receiving end of such weapons.

Whether you wish to admit it or not, when you approve, morally, of
the bombing of foreign targets by the U.S. military, you are
approving of acts morally equivalent to the bombing in Oklahoma
City. The only difference is that this nation is not going to see
any foreign casualties appear on the cover of Newsweek magazine.

It seems ironic and hypocritical that an act as viciously condemned
in Oklahoma City is now a "justified" response to a problem in a
foreign land. Then again, the history of United States policy over
the last century, when examined fully, tends to exemplify
hypocrisy.

When considering the use of weapons of mass destruction against
Iraq as a means to an end, it would be wise to reflect on the words
of the late U.S. Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis. His words
are as true in the context of Olmstead as they are when they stand
alone:

"Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or
ill, it teaches the whole people by its example."

Sincerely,

Timothy J. McVeigh







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSqncrs@aol.com
Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 01:10:32 -0700 (PDT)
To: Cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: A Plug
Message-ID: <82a314d7.356e6c59@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hey look, Nobody's expressed interest in joining FreeGroup, but he can't come
in anomonously because of the 'machine' involved with my list.  So, the only
way he can do it (and remain anonomous) is by coming in under a different
alias (since the other one's been uncovered, IMHO.)  But, if he simply applies
now under a different alias, he knows that I know it's him, so I need to give
him cover, so I'm going to give a little FreeGroup plug to all the
Cypherpunks, so I won't really know it's him that's applying, when he does.
In reality, other Cypherpunks are also very welcome to join.

So Cypherpunks, here's something you (almost) missed by not being in
FreeGroup, posts that show that the right-wing stole the anti-FBI/Government
sentiment card from guess who, us Liberals!  We never took it as far as they
did, though.  We aren't that stupid :-) And if somehow my memory fails and I
already posted this (and any others) here, let me apologize in advance (though
somehow, I doubt anyone will mind (except perhaps any FBI agents that might be
viewing ;-) )  But before we get to the FBI (a favorite on this list, from my
obvservations), first we talk about other government agencies -
======
Subj:	The Arch Angel
Date:	5/27/98
To: [FreeGroup]

Bet some of you newcomers wonder where the right-wing got the idea that being
anti-government might be a popular idea.  I'll tell you where.  They got it
from us liberals

... Around here (thanks to Fred), this guy is known as the 'Arch Angel Arlo'.
He was my favorite political composer of the era -
======
Alices Resturant
Alice's Restaurant Massacree - by Arlo Guthrie

This song is called Alice's Restaurant, it's a - bout Alice - and the
restaurant
But Alice's Restaurant is not the name of the restaurant that's - just the
name of the song
That's why I call the song Alice's Restaurant

You can get anything you want, at Alice's Restaurant 
You can get anything you want - at Alice's Restaurant
Walk right in it's around the back - just a half a mile from the railroad
track
You can get anything you want, at Alice's Restaurant

Now it all started 2 Thanksgivings ago thats on 2 years ago on Thanksgiving
when my friend and I went up to visit Alice at the Restaurant, but - Alice
doesn't live in the Restaurant, she - lives in the church nearby the
restaurant in the bell tower, with her husband Ray and, Fasha the dog and
living in the bell tower like that they got a lot of room downstairs where the
pews used to've been, having all that room, seein' how they took out all the
pews, they decided that they didn't have to take out their garbage for a long
time.

We got up there, we found all the garbage in there and we decided it'd be a -
friendly gesture for us to take the garbage down to the city dump.  So we took
the half-a-ton of garbage put it in the back of a red VW microbus took shovels
and rakes and impliments of destruction and - headed on toward the city dump. 

Well we got there there's a big sign and a chain across the dump saying
"closed on Thanksgiving" and, we had never heard of a dump closed on
Thanksgiving before and with - tears in our eyes we drove off into the sunset
looking for - another place to put the garbage.  We didn't find one -

'Till we came to a side road and off the side of the side road was another 15
foot cliff and, at the bottom of the cliff was another pile of garbage and, we
decided that 1 big pile was better than 2 little piles and rather than bring
that one up, we decided to throw ours down.  That's what we did. Drove back to
the church had a Thanksgiving dinner that couldn't be beat went to sleep and
didn't get up until the next morning, when we got a phone call from Officer
Obie.

Said "Kid -  we found your name on an envelope at the bottom of a half-a-ton
of garbage and - just wanted to know if you had any information about it" and
I said "yes sir Officer Obie, I cannot tell a lie - I put that envelope under
that garbage."

After speaking to Obie for about 45 minutes on the telephone we finally
arrived at the truth of the matter and said that we had to go down and pick up
the garbage and, also had to go down and speak to him at the Police Officer
station so we got in the red, VW microbus with the shovels and rakes and
implements of destruction and headed on towards the Police Officer station.  

Now friends, there was only 1 of 2 things Obie could've done at the Police
station, and the 1st was that he could've givin us a medal for being so brave
and honest on the telephone, which wasn't very likely, and we didn't expect
it, and the other thing was, that he could've bawled us out and told us never
to be seen driving garbage around the vicinity again.  Which is what we
expected, but when we got to the Police Officer station, there was a 3rd
possibility that we hadn't even counted upon, and we was both immediatly
arrested.  Handcuffed and I said Obie "I - don't think I can pick up the
garbage with these handcuffs on."  Said "Shut up kid, get in the back of the
patrol car" and that's what we did, sat in the back of the patrol car and
drove to the quote "scene-of-the-crime" unquote.


I want to tell you about the town of Stockbridge, Massachusetts where this
happened here, they got 3 stop signs - 2 police officers and 1 police car, but
when we got to the "scene-of-the-crime", there was 5 police officers and 3
police cars - being the biggest crime of the last 50 years and everybody
wanted to get in the newspaper story about it.  And they was using up all
kinds of cop equipment that they had hanging around the Police Officer
station.  They was taking plaster tire track footprints dog smellin' prints,
and they took twenty-seven 8 by 10 color glossy photographs, with circles and
arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each one was to
be used as evidence against us.  Took pictures of the approach, the getaway,
the northwest corner, the southwest corner, and that's not to mention the
ariel photography.

After the ordeal, we went back to the jail Obie said he was gonna put us in
the cell, said "Kid, I'm gonna put you in the cell, I want your wallet and
your belt."  I said "Obie, I can understand you wanting my wallet so I don't
have any money to spend in the cell but what do you want my belt for?" Said
"Kid - we don't want any hangins."  Said "Obie, did you think I was gonna hang
myself for littering?"  Obie said he was making sure, and friends, Obie was
'cause he took out the toilet seat so I couldn't hit myself over the head and
drown.  And he took out the toilet paper so I couldn't bend the bars, roll
out, roll the toilet paper out the window, slide down the roll and have an
escape.  Obie was making sure, and it was about 4 or 5 hours later, that
Alice, remember Alice?  It's a song about Alice.  Alice came by and with a few
nasty words to Obie on the side - bailed us out of jail, we went back to the
church, had another Thanksgiving dinner that couldn't be beat and didn't get
up until the next morning, when we all had to go to court.

We walked in, sat down. Obie came in - with the twenty-seven 8 by 10 color
glossy pictures with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each
one, sat down.  Man came in said "All rise." We all stood up	and Obie stood up
with the twenty-seven 8 by 10 color glossy pictures and the Judge walked in,
sat down with a seeing-eye dog and he sat down.  We sat down.  Obie looked at
the seeing-eye dog.  And then at the twenty-seven 8 by 10 color glossy
pictures with the circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one -
and looked at the seeing-eye dog.  And then at the twenty-seven 8 by 10 color
glossy pictures with the circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of
each one and began to cry - 'cause Obie came to the realization, that it was a
typical case - of 'American Blind Justice', and there was nothing he could do
about it, and the Judge wasn't gonna look at the twenty-seven 8 by 10 color
glossy pictures with the circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of
each one explaining what each one was to be used as evidence against us.  And
we was fined fifty dollars and had to - pick up the garbage in the snow, but -
that's not what I came to tell you about.  Came to talk about the draft.


They got a building down in New York City it's called 'Whitehall Street' where
you walk in and get injected, inspected, detected, infected, neglected and
selected.  I went down to get my physical examination one day and I walked in,
sat down - got good and drunk the night before so I looked and felt my best
when I went in that mornin'.  'Cause I wanted to look like the all American
kid from New York City.  Man I wanted, I wanted to feel like the all, I wanted
to be - the all American kid, from New York and I walked in, sat down I was
hung down, brung down, hung up and all - kinds of mean, nasty, ugly things,
and I walked in, I sat down, they gave me a piece of paper that said "Kid -
see the Psychiatrist, room 6O4.  And - I went up there, said "Shrink, I wanna
kill. I mean I wanna, wanna kill.  Kill.  I wanna, wanna see, I wanna see
blood and gore and guts and veins in my teeth. Eat dead burnt bodies.  I mean
kill. Kill. KILL. KILL."  And I started jumping up and down, yellin' "KILL.
KILL."  And he started jumping up and down with me with me, and we was both
jumpin' up and down, yelling "KILL.  KILL."  And the Sergeant came over,
pinned a medal on me, sent me down the hall, said "You're our boy."  Didn't
feel to good about it, uh, proceeded down the hall getting more injections,
inspections, detections, neglections, and all - kinds of stuff that they was
doin' to me at the thing there and I was there for 2 hours, 3 hours, 4 hours -
I was there a long time goin' through all kinds of mean, nasty, ugly things
and I  - was, just having a tough time there and they was inspecting,
injecting every - single part of me, and they was leavin' no place untouched.
Proceeded through and I - when finally came to see the very last man, I walked
in, I walked in, sat down after a whole big thing there, and I walked up and
said "What do ya want".  He said "Kid, we only got one question - have you
ever been arrested?"

I proceeded to tell him the story of the 'Alice's Restaurant Massacree' with -
full orchestration and five part harmony and stuff like that and then all the
phenomina "Stop It Right There" said "Kid - did you ever go to court?"

I proceeded to tell him the story of the twenty-seven 8 by 10 color glossy
pictures with the circles and arrows, and a paragraph on the back of each one
"Stop It Right There" and said "Kid - I want you to go over and sit down on
that bench that says 'Group W' - NOW KID!"

I, and I, I walked over to the, to the bench there, and there is - there's
Group W's where they, where they put ya, if you may not be moral enough to, to
join the Army, after committing your special crime and - there was all kinds
of mean, nasty, ugly looking people on the bench there -  mother rapers -
father stabbers - father rapers! - father rapers sittin' right there on the
bench next to me and, one, they was mean and nasty and ugly, and horible and
crime, fighting guys was sittin' on the bench.  And the meanest, ugliest,
nastiest  one - the meanest father raper of them all, was coming over to me,
and he was mean and ugly and nasty and horible and all kinds of things, and he
sat down next to me and said "Kid - what did ya get?"

I said "I didn't get nothin', I had to pay fifty dollars and pick up the
garbage". He said "What were you arrested for, kid?" and I - said "Littering"
- and they all moved away from me on the bench there and the hairy eyeball,
and all kinds of mean, nasty things, 'till I said "and creating a nuisance"
and they all came back, shook my hand and we had a great time talkin' about
crime, mother stabbin', mother raping, and all kinds of groovy things that we
was talkin' about on the bench.  And everything was fine, we was smoking
cigarettes and all kinds of things, until the Sergeant came over - had some
paper in his hand, said "Kids - 


This piece of papers got 47 word 37 sentences 58 word we want to know detail
of the crime time crime and any kind of thing you got to say time and tune
about the crime unknown arresting officers name and everything you got to
say..." and he talked for 45 minutes, and nobody understood a word that he
said, but we had fun filling out the forms and playing with the pencils on the
bench there and - I filled out the 'Massacree' with the 4 part harmony and -
wrote it down there, just like it was and everything was fine and I - put down
the pencil and turned over the piece of paper and there - there on the other
side - in the middle of the other side - away from everything else on the
other side - in parenthesis - capital letters - quotated - read the following
words.  

"Kid - have you rehabilitated yourself?"  I went over to the Sergeant and said
"Sergeant, you've got a - lot of damn gall to ask me if I've rehabilitated
myself, I mean - I mean - I mean, I just, I'm sittin' here on the bench, I
mean I'm sitting on the Group W bench - because you want to know if I'm moral
enough to join the Army, burn women, kids houses and villages after being a
litterbug."  He looked at me and said "Kid - we don't like your kind - and
we're going to send your fingerprints off to Washington" and friends -
somewhere in Washington enshrined in some little folder is a - study in black
and white - of my fingerprints.  

And the only reason why I'm singing you this song now is because you may know
somebody in a similar situation - or YOU may be in a similar situation and if
you're in a situation like that - there's only one thing you can do is, walk
into the shrink wherever you are, just walk in and say "Shrink -

You can get anything you want at Alice's Resaurant" and walk out.  Ya know, if
1 person, just 1 person does it they'll think he's really sick and they wont
take him.  And if 2 people, 2 people do it - in harmony - they may think
they're both faggots and won't take either of 'em.  And if 3 people do it - 3,
can you imagine 3 people walking in singing a bar of 'Alice's Restaurant' and
walking out?  They may think it's an organization.  And can you, can you
imagine 5O people a day?  I said 5O people a day walking in singing a bar of
'Alice's Restaurant' and walking out.  And friends they may think it's a
movement, and that's what it is.  The 'Alice's Restaurant Anti-Massecree'
movement, and all you got to do to join, is sing it the next time it comes
around on guitar - with feeling.  So we'll wait 'till it comes around on the
guitar here and sing it when it does - here it comes - 

You can get anything you want, at Alice's Restaurant 
You can get anything you want - at Alice's Restaurant
Walk right in it's around the back - just a half a mile from the railroad
track
You can get anything you want, at Alice's Restaurant

That was horrible.  You want to end war and stuff you got to sing loud.  You
could put alot, I've been singing this song now for about 25 minutes - I could
sing it for another 25 minutes - I'm not proud - or tired - so we'll wait
'till it comes around again and - this time with 4 part harmony and feeling -
we're just waiting for it to come around is what we're doing - allright now -

You can get anything you want, at Alice's Restaurant, excepting Alice
You can get anything you want - at Alice's Restaurant
Just walk right in it's around the back - just a half a mile from the railroad
track
and you can get anything you want, at Alice's Restaurant

Da da da da da dum, at Alice's Restaurant!
======
Stan,
FreeGroup - "Just Say It!"
http://members.aol.com/whtsametau/FreeGroup.html




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSqncrs@aol.com
Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 01:15:33 -0700 (PDT)
To: Cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: More Government Bashing
Message-ID: <32235dca.356e6e78@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Ah yes, a bit of local police bashing, courts bashing and draft bashing.
Here's a little more local police bashing with a tiny bit of FBI bashing
thrown in to segue into the next post -
@@@@@@
Subj:	Another Cop Bashing Story
Date:	5/28/98
To:	[FreeGroup]

Again, I can't resist -
=====
Motorcycle (Significance of the Pickle) Song - Arlo Guthrie

I don't want a pickle
Just want to ride on my motorsickle
And I don't want a tickle
I'd rather ride on my motorsickle
And I don't want to die
Just want to ride on my motorcy - cle

You know, it's been about 12 years now that, I've been singing this dumb song.
You know, it's amazing, it's amazing that somebody could get away with singing
a song this dumb for that long. But you know, hey you know what's more amazing
than that is that, is that uh, somebody could make a living singing a song
this dumb.  But, that's America!

You know, I told about everything there was to tell about it.  When I wrote
it, how come, why, what for, but you know the one thing, that I always used to
neglect to explain, was the significance of the pickle.

It was the time I was riding my bike, I was going down a mountain road.  I was
doing 150 miles an hour.  On one side of the mountain road there was a
mountain, and on the other side there was nothin', it was just a cliff in the
air.  But I wasn't paying attention you know I was just driving down the road.
All of a sudden by accident, a string broke off my guitar.  It broke you know
right there went flying across the road that way, wrapped itself around a
yield sign.  Well the sign didn't break, it didn't come out of the ground, the
string stayed wrapped around it. Stayed in the other end of my guitar, I held
on to my guitar with one hand.  I held on to the bike with the other.  I made
a sharp turn off the road.  Luckily I didn't go into the mountain. I went over
the cliff.  I was doing 150 miles an hour sideways, and 500 feet down at the
same time.  Hey, I was looking for the cops, 'cause you know, hey I knew that
you know it, it was illegal.

Well, I knew that it was it.  I knew I didn't have long, to live in this
world.  And in my last remaining seconds in the world I knew that it was my
obligation to, write one last farewell song to the world.  Took out a piece of
paper, I pulled out a pen, and it didn't write I, I had to put another ink
cartridge in it.  I sat back and I thought for awhile and then it come to me,
it come like a flash, like a vision burnt across the clouds.  I just wrote it
down.  I learned it right away.  I don't want a pickle, just want to ride on
my motorsickle.  And I don't want a tickle, I'd rather ride on my motorsickle.
And I don't want to die, just, want to ride on my motorcy - cle.  Hey I, you
know, I knew it wasn't the best song I ever wrote, but I didn't have time to
change it. But you know the most amazing thing was, that I didn't die, I
landed on the top of a police car, and it died.

I come into town, I come into town at a screaming 175 miles an hour singing my
new motorcycle song.  I stopped out in front of the deli and out in front of
the deli was a man, eating the most tremendous pickle, a pickle the size of
four pregnant watermelons, just a huge monster pickle.  He walked up to me,
pushed a pickle in my face and started asking me questions.  It was about the
same time I noticed a pickle in my face I noticed a cord hanging from the long
end of the pickle going up his sleeve down his shirt into his pants and shoes
out into a briefcase he had near his feet.

I knew it wasn't a ordinary pickle.  But it was about the same time I noticed
the cord hanging out ot the pickle that a 4 foot cop arrived, with a 5 foot
gun.  A cop that one time, must have been around 6 foot 3, but was met at the
bottom of a mountain, by a flying, singing, writing, weirdo freak.  He walked
up and with one tremendous hand he grabbed the pickle away from the other guy.
He threw it, a hundred feet, straight up in the air.  And while the pickle was
half way between going up and coming down, he took out his gun and put a 3
inch bullet hole right through the long end of the pickle.  It started coming
back down.  He stuck out his foot.  He caught the pickle on his big toe.  And
balancing the pickle on his big toe he reached his huge hand into his little
pocket, pulled out a 10 foot ticket.  He borrowed my pen, he wrote it up, then
he rolled it up, and stuffed it in the bullet hole in the middle of the
pickle, took the pickle with the ticket and shoved it down my throat.  It was
at that very moment, that the pickle with the ticket was going down my throat
that, I knew for sure that, that I didn't want a pickle.

I don't want a pickle
I just want to ride on my motorsickle
And I don't want a tickle
I'd rather ride on my motorsickle
And I don't want to die
Just want to ride on my, motorcy - cle
@@@@@
And on to the meat of the matter, the FBI -
@@@@@
Subj:	Re: Another Cop Bashing Story + FBI Bashing
Date:	5/29/98
To:	[FreeGroup]
<< YES!!! I actually do have an original copy! It's on the album "ARLO" . I'll
work on that transcript this weekend. I also have "Hobo's Lullaby" Pretty cool
stuff dude!   >>

Ok, then you deserve this -
======
The Pause of Mr. Claus - Arlo Guthrie

(introduction) This next song, we're going to dedicate to a great American
organization.  Tonight, I'd like to dedicate this, to our boys, in the FBI.
Well, wait a minute, it's hard to be a FBI man.  I mean, first of all to be a
FBI man you have to be over 40, years old.  And the reason is, that it takes
at least 25 years with the organization, to be that much of a bastard.  Now,
it's true you just can't join, you know it kinda it needs a atmosphere where
your natural bastardness, can grow and develop and, take a meaningful shape in
today's complex society.  

But that's not why I want to dedicate the song to the FBI.  I mean the job
that they have to do, is a drag!  I mean they have to follow people around.
You know, that's part of their job.  Follow me around.  I'm out on the
highway, and I'm drivin' down the road, and I run out of gasoline and I pull
over to the side of the road, they got to pull over too, make believe they ran
out.  You know, I go to get some gasoline, they have to figure out whether
they should stick with the car, or follow me!  Suppose I don't come back and
they're staying with the car.  Or if I fly on the airplanes.  I can fly half-
fare because I'm 12 - 22, and they got to pay the full fare.  But, well, what
the thing is when you pay the full fair, you have to get on the airplane first
so that they know how many seats are left over for the half-fair kids.
Allright and sometimes there aren't any seats left over and, sometimes there
are but that doesn't mean you have to go!  Well suppose he gets on and fills
up the last seat.  So you can't get on, then  he gets off, then you can get
on!  What's he going to do?  Wait, well, it's a drag for him.

But that's not, that's not why I want to dedicate the song to the FBI.
During, during these hard, days, and hard weeks, everybody always has it bad
once in a while, you know you, you have a bad time of it, and you always has a
friend that says "hey man, you ain't got it that bad, look at that guy."  And
you look at that guy, and he's got it worse than you!  And it makes you feel
better that there's somebody that's got it worse than you.  But think of the
last guy.  For one minute, think of the last guy.  Nobody's got it worse than
that guy.  Nobody, in the whole world, that guy, he's so alone in the world,
that, he doesn't even have a street to lay in for a truck to run him over.
He's out theeerre, with nothing.  Nothin's happening for that cat.  And all
that he has to do to, create a little excitement in his, own life, is to bum a
dime from somewhere, call up the FBI, say "FBI?" they say "yes?" say "I dig
Uncle Ho and Chairman Mao and their friends are coming over for dinner.",
hang up the phone.  

And within two minutes, and not two minutes from, when he hangs up the phone
but two minutes from when he first put the dime in, they got 30,000 feet of
tape rollin'.  Files on tape, pictures, movies, dramas, actions on tape.  But
then they send out a half a million people all over the entire world, the
globe, they find out all they can about this guy.  'Cause there's a number of
questions involved in this guy.  I mean if he was the last guy in the world,
how did he get a dime to call the FBI?  There are plenty of people that aren't
the last guy, that can't get dimes, he comes along and he gets a dime!  I mean
if, if he had to bum a dime to call the FBI, how was he going to serve dinner
for all those people?  *How could the last guy make dinner for all those
people?*  And if he could make dinner, and was gonna make dinner, then why did
he call the FBI?  And they find out all of those questions within two minutes!

And that's the, that's the great thing about America!  I mean, this is the
only country in the world, I mean well it's it's not the only country in the
world that could find stuff out in two minutes, but it's the only country in
the world that would take two minutes for that guy!  Well other countries
would say "Hey, he's the last guy, screw him!", you know?  But, but in America
there is no discrimination.  And there is no hypocracy, 'cause they'll get
anybody.  And that's, that's a wonderful thing, about America.

And that's why tonight, I'd like to dedicate it to every, FBI man in the
audience.  I know, you can't say nothin' you know.  You can't get up and say,
"Hi!", you know, 'cause then everybody knows, that you're a FBI man, that's a
drag for you, and your friends!  They're not really your friends, are they.  I
mean so you can't get up and say nothing 'cause otherwise, you got to get sent
back, to the factory.  And that's, that's a drag for you and an expense for
the government.  And that's a drag for you.  

We're going to sing you this Christmas Carol.  It's for all you bastards out
there in the audience tonight.  It's called 'The Pause of Mr. Claus'.  

 Why do you sit there so strange
Is it because you are beautiful
You must think you are deranged
Why do police guys beat on peace guys?

You must think Santa Claus wierd
He-e has lo-ong hair and a beard
Giving his presents for free
Why do police guys mess with peace guys?

Let's get Santa Clause 'Cause

Santa Claus has a red suit, he's a communist
And a beard and long hair, must be a pacifist
What's in the pipe that he's smoking???????

Mr. Claus sneaks in your house at night
he must be a dope-fiend, to put you uptight
Why do police guys, beat on peace guys?
@@@@@
What can I say?  We have alot of fun.

Stan,
FreeGroup - "Just Say It!"
http://members.aol.com/whtsametau/FreeGroup.html




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: iu87y@hotmail.com (kj87u)
Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 07:12:45 -0700 (PDT)
To: iu87y@hotmail.com
Subject: VENTURE CAPITAL OPPORTUNITY
Message-ID: <199805293650TAA36479@76tg54@hotmail.com.nationwide.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


VENTURE CAPITAL BUSINESS AND CAREER OPPORTUNITY

Our corporation, through our expanding partners network,
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To receive an extensive package of printed information,
please call our voice mail system at 214-373-2032 and leave
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This is a ONE time mailing only.  It will NOT be repeated.
You are NOT on any mailing list, and your name is DELETED after
you receive this message.  If this message is not of interest
to you, we are sorry for the intrusion. You DO NOT have to email
us to remove your name.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: listmaster@extensis.com
Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 13:01:38 -0700 (PDT)
To: undisclosed-recipients:;
Subject: Extensis Plug-ins are Compatible with Adobe Photoshop 5.0
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


As an Extensis customer you will be happy to know that 
all Extensis products are now Photoshop 5.0 compatible. 
You can download the latest versions off of our web site 
for free. These updates are available for all Extensis 
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Simply visit the Extensis site at http://products.extensis.com/updates/
to get your FREE download.

For additional information on Extensis please visit 
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For Extensis Customer Service please call 1-800-796-9798.
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PS. We have made every effort to ensure this message is being sent 
only to people who have expressed interest in Extensis products.  
If we have sent this to you in error, please accept our apologies 
and reply with REMOVE in the subject line and your email address 
in the body for automatic exclusion from future communications.  
If you know someone who would like to be on our mailing list 
have them send an email to listmaster@extensis.com with ADD in 
the subject line and their email address in the body.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mia Westerholm 
Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 06:03:16 -0700 (PDT)
To: F-Secure-Press-Global@DataFellows.com
Subject: Data Fellows Announces F-Secure FileCrypto
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980529144257.00a239e0@smtp.DataFellows.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


For immediate release
29 May 1998

DATA FELLOWS ANNOUNCES F-SECURE FILECRYPTO 

New Product Provides Centrally Managed On-the-Fly Protection For Sensitive
Data on Personal Computers

Helsinki, Finland, May 29, 1998  -- Data Fellows, a leading developer of
data security software, today announced F-Secure FileCrypto, the latest
addition to the company's award-winning cryptographic product line.
F-Secure FileCrypto will provide strong, on-the-fly encryption for
confidential data in the Microsoft Windows 95/98 and NT 4.0 environments.

"F-Secure FileCrypto is the only file encryption product on the market
designed for companies with thousands of PCs," says Mr. Camillo Sars,
Product Manager, Data Fellows. "The protection of confidential files has
never been this easy. F-Secure FileCrypto is centrally installed over the
entire network, and automatically encrypts all open and temporary files.
The process is completely transparent to end-users, requiring no action
from them at all." 

F-Secure FileCrypto is managed from a central location. The administrator
can define a security policy for all installed copies of the software. The
recommended basic policy is encrypting all directories on the local hard
drive.

The program also features a key retrieval function. If a user forgets the
password that allows access to encrypted files, the Administrative Key
Recovery function manages the situation safely and easily.

According to Mr. Sars: "F-Secure FileCrypto is the first and only product
to integrate strong real-time encryption into the Windows file system. It
automatically encrypts data before it gets stored on the hard disk,
protecting sensitive information even in the most demanding situations. If
a PC is improperly turned off, or if a laptop computer's batteries go dead,
any open or temporary files will be encrypted and safe."

F-Secure FileCrypto also has a feature which allows users to send encrypted
e-mail to other users. Encrypted e-mail can be decrypted with a password.

F-Secure FileCrypto uses well-known fast block cipher algorithms. Either
the three-key 3DES, or the Blowfish algorithm, can be selected. Both
algorithms have been analyzed by the world's leading cryptographers and are
known to be strong and safe.

"Files protected by F-Secure FileCrypto are not accessible to computer
freaks, hackers, or even cryptography experts. Each file is encrypted with
a random session key. Breaking a single key would give someone access to
only one file, and the job would consume trillions of years of computer
time," says Mr. Sars.

F-Secure FileCrypto for Windows NT 4.0 will be available in July 1998, from
Data Fellows' resellers around the world. F-Secure FileCrypto for Windows
95 and 98 will be available later this year.

About Data Fellows

Data Fellows is one of the world's leading developers of data security
software. The company's groundbreaking F-Secure products provide a unique
combination of globally available strong encryption and revolutionary
anti-virus software. The integrated F-Secure software family provides
complete security solutions for enterprises of any size. It includes file
encryption and IPsec communication encryption products, VPN gateways,
SSH-based secure remote management software, easy-to-use solutions for
distributed DNS management, and a full range of anti-virus products for
workstations, servers and gateways. Data Fellows is also the developer of
the award-winning 
F-PROT Professional anti-virus engine, which is now an integral part of the
multiple engine structure of F-Secure Anti-Virus.   

Data Fellows has offices in San Jose, California, and Helsinki, Finland. In
addition, it offers a worldwide network of technical support, training and
distribution in over 80 countries. 

Since the company was founded in 1988, its annual net sales growth has
consistently been over 80%. Data Fellows belongs to an elite group of
companies with a triple-A rating from Dun&Bradstreet. The company is
privately owned.  

For further information, please contact

Data Fellows Ltd., Finland:
Mr. Camillo Sars, Product Manager	
Tel.  +358 9 859 900
Fax. +358 9 8599 0599
E-Mail: Camillo.Sars@DataFellows.com

Data Fellows Inc., USA:
Mr. Petri Laakkonen, President
Tel. +1 408 938 6700
Fax  +1 408 938 6701
E-mail:  Petri.Laakkonen@DataFellows.com

Visit our web site at http://www.DataFellows.com
¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤
Mia.Westerholm@DataFellows.com 
http://www.DataFellows.com

Data Fellows Ltd.
PL 24
FIN-02231 ESPOO, FINLAND
Tel. +358 9 859 900
Fax. +358 9 8599 0599




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 18:10:42 -0700 (PDT)
To: john gilmore 
Subject: FOIA fee waiver denial lawsuit
Message-ID: <356F5BAC.6D4D@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Friday 5/29/986:52 PM

                 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
                 FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA

John Gilmore		                    )
Arthur R. Morales                           )
William H. Payne        	   	   
)                                            			    )
                Plaintiffs,                 )
					    )	
Lieutenant General Kenneth A. Minihan, USAF )   
Director, National Security Agency	    )
National Security Agency		    )
9800 Savage Road			    )
Fort George G. Meade, MD 20755-6000	    )	    
                                            )
                Defendant                   )
____________________________________________)


                    DEMAND FOR JURY TRIAL

Gilmore  http://www.cygnus.com/~gnu/

Hope you got my three phone messages.

My belief is that NO ONE has ever sued over a FOIA
fee waiver denial.

BECAUSE of the VISIBILITY that John Young has given NSA
lawsuits http://www.jya.com/nsa-cases.htm I think that
it is a propitious time to sue NSA in the District of 
Columbia over a FOIA fee waiver denial.

Pro se for economic and LEGAL reasons.

And, of course, we should try to get some crypto patents
at the same time.  I have some ideas for keying crypto
devices  http://av.yahoo.com/bin/query?p=gfsr&hc=0&hs=0

Let me know your thoughts.  By secure communications, of 
course

bill


Friday 5/15/98 3:48 PM

By e-mail and US mail

Lieutenant General Kenneth A Minihan, USAF
Director, National Security Agency
National Security Agency
9800 Savage Road
Fort George G. Meade, MD 20755-6000

Dear General Minihan:

Purposes of the letter are to

1  appeal a FOIA fee waiver denial.
2  continue to explore settlement possibilities of our current 
lawsuit.

30 March Joann H. Grube, Deputy Director of Policy, NSA, wrote
in response to my Friday February 27, 1998 attached letter to you

  There are 706 cases ahead of your in our processing queue. ..

  Please be advised that your request for a waiver of fees has been
  denied.

Public knowledge of how much taxpayer NSA has likely squandered 
ATTEMPTING to build public key crypto chips certainly in
the public interest.

Therefore, I appeal Grube's denial.

Grube wrote

  Any person notified on an adverse determination may, within 60
  days after notification of the determination, file an appeal to the
  NSA/CSS Freedom of Information Act Appeal Authority.  The
  appeal shall be in writing and addressed to the NSA/CSS FOIA 
  Appeal Authority, ...

General Minihan,  Grube apparently is attempting to invent her
own FOIA appeal rules instead of follow federal law.  

  Whenever a FOIA request is denied, the agency must inform
  the requester of the reasons for the denial and the requester's
  right to appeal the denial to the head of the agency.

I ask that you educate and possibly reprimand Grube for her failure
to properly state law.

As you may be aware

      (6)(A) Each agency, upon any request for records made under  
       paragraph (1), (2), or (3) of this subsection, shall--
        (i) determine within ten days \1\ (excepting
        Saturdays, Sundays, and legal public holidays) after
        the receipt of any such request whether to comply with
        such request and shall immediately notify the person
        making such request of such determination and the
        reasons therefor, and of the right of such person to
        appeal to the head of the agency any adverse
        determination; and

And you may also be aware

  -------------------------------------------------------------------------
      \1\ Under section 12(b) of the Electronic Freedom of Information
  Act Amendments of 1996 (Pub. L. 104-231; 110 Stat. 3054), the amendment
  made by section 8(b) of such Act striking ``ten days'' and inserting
  ``20 days'' shall take effect on October 3, 1997.
  -------------------------------------------------------------------------
            (ii) make a determination with respect to any
        appeal within twenty days (excepting Saturdays,
        Sundays, and legal public holidays) after the receipt
        of such appeal. If on appeal the denial of the request
        for records is in whole or in part upheld, the agency
        shall notify the person making such request of the
        provisions for judicial review of that determination
        under paragraph (4) of this subsection

So I expect a response to this appeal within the time allotted to you 
by law.

Our lawsuit has attracted international attention on Internet.

http://www.jya.com/whp050898.htm
http://www.jya.com/whp-10usca.htm
http://www.jya.com/whp043098.htm
http://www.jya.com/mf050998.htm
http://jya.com/whpfiles.htm
http://www.jya.com/crack-a5.htm
http://caq.com/cryptogate
http://www.aci.net/kalliste/speccoll.htm
http://www.aci.net/kalliste/nukearse.htm

Partially, perhaps, as the result of the about .5 million dead Iranian Shiite Muslims.
Or maybe judicial misconduct?

Morales and I plan to appeal to the Tenth in event that Morales' dismissal is upheld.

Further, we feel that YOU must be held accountable.  Therefore we will appeal your
removal from our lawsuit.

But this is sure to cost the taxpayer much more money.  

And failure to fairly settle these unfortunate matters raises the possibility of a understandable, or opportunistic, retaliatory attack for NSA's bungled spy sting on Iran
by the aggrieved or their enemies.  

Innocent people may be harmed.

Both alternatives are unpleasant to think about.

Therefore, Morales and I continue to offer to engage in settlement talks with YOU.

I cannot find your e-mail address

Therefore I will forward the e-mail copy of this FOIA appeal /settlement letter to 
Ray Kammer of NIST [http://www.nist.gov so that Kammer can possibly
forward an e-mail to you.

I am not reading e-mail. 

Sincerely,



William Payne
13015 Calle de Sandias
Albuquerque, NM 87111
505-292-7037 




3






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Nobuki Nakatuji" 
Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 21:28:25 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: When write high-speed implementation,
Message-ID: <19980530042752.25126.qmail@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


When write high-speed implementation,
Is S-box written by hexadecimal or
written by decimal?
Thanks.


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "snow" 
Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 22:35:11 -0700 (PDT)
To: cons0005@algonquinc.on.ca
Subject: Re: D.A.R.E. and a Bullpupy
In-Reply-To: <199805290226.WAA15318@algnet.algonquinc.on.ca>
Message-ID: <199805300534.AAA05884@smoke.suba.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


> If your a nigger,

	I have this buddy who did some time on a narcotics charge. He 
occasionally talks about some of the white folks he met while inside. Seems
many of them were associated with white power groups, and tried on several
occasions to recruit him.

	He said that the funniest thing about them was their consistent 
inability to spell properly, or to use anything vaguely resembling 
appropriate grammer or puncuation when writing. 







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: verify@nytimes.com (New York Times subscription robot)
Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 22:20:20 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Welcome to The New York Times on the Web
Message-ID: <199805300520.BAA28225@content9a.nytimes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Welcome, coderpunk,

Thank you for registering for The New York Times on the Web.  

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: forgot@nytimes.com
Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 02:10:05 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: NYT Account Request
Message-ID: <199805301001.FAA22489340@inbox.nytimes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



You have requested your ID and password for The New York Times on the Web.
Please follow the instructions below.

1.  Please make a note of your subscriber ID:

nifft

2.  Next, to get the password for this account, using your Web browser go
to this unique URL:

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This page will allow you to choose a new password.  Make sure you have
copied the address EXACTLY as it appears here.  (If you're getting an
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3.  Follow the instructions on the screen to choose a new password.  After
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The New York Times on the Web
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Help With Copying and Pasting

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2.  Under the Edit menu at the top of your screen, select "Copy".
3.  Go into your Web browser (open it if it's not already opened).
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ann 
Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 14:14:36 -0700 (PDT)
To: @
Subject: Where's my graduation present?
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



                                   MEGA$NETS=MEGABUCK$
                                   ANYBODY CAN DO THIS.
                                   NO APPLICATION
                                   NO INVENTORY 
                                   NO MEETING
                                   NO PRODUCTION REQUIREMENT

NO BRAINER, EVEN A MONKEY COULD DO THIS!!!

JUST $$CASH$$
LOTS & LOTS & LOTS OF CASH !!$$!!$$!!

This is one of the most simple and yet brilliant plans ever created. Everybody
wins! BUT you must follow it exactly!! If you do the soon you will be laughing
all the way to the bank.

You are holding information in your hands on a home-based business concept
of the next century! This is a networking breakthrough of enormous potentials!
And it is here now and ready to help you earn the kind of income you deserve!
Welcome to the majors.

MEGA$NETS combines 3 of the most powerful income opportunities of our
time....computers, mail order, and network marketing. Together, they offer you a 
home-based business you can work full or part-time. MEGA$NETS is an easy to
use yet sophisticated software program to help the average person get in on the
fabulous profits being made in the computer networking age.


Most of us know the future is in computers. An estimated 150,000 new people
are getting on the internet each month! MEGA-PROFITS will be earned 
with computers whether you and I are involved or not. So why not get involved
Now?

The IBM compatible MEGA$NETS software disk cost just $20, yet it is designed to
bring you a tremendous income within a remarkable short period of time.

HERE'S HOW IT WORKS

Purchase the MEGA$NETS software disk for just $20 from the person sharing
this opportunity with you. Load it into your PC. You will be impressed with the
professional appearance of the software and how easy it is to operate! The
Menu includes access to a complete set of instructions. you also receive
seperate written and step by step instructions,so you do not even need to be
familiar with computers!

STEP 1. The computer will ask you to type in your own name & address. Be 
sure this information is correct. Once you click to the next screen, your
information will be permanently locked into the program. No one can remove 
it!!!

STEP2. Next you will see the names and addresses of 5 on your screen. Now
move to the next screen and click on " Purchase Orders". Your printer will
automatically produce a seperate Purchase Order for each of those 5 vendors.
Simply mail the orders, enclose a Self Addressed Stamped Envelope and
money order OR cash for $20 with each. In return for your orders and payment,
the 5 vendors will each send you a different code number. Your total
expenditure is $120: $20 for your original program disk and 5x20 for your codes.

STEP 3. Enter these into the computer program where it tells you to do so, and
now you are able to make copies of your disk. YOU CANNOT MAKE COPIES OF
DISKS WITHOUT THES 5 CODES. The program will not let you.

STEP 4. Once you enter the 5 codes you can now duplicate the disk and sell
each duplicated disk to other people who own or have access to a compatible
PC. They will want to buy because of the profit potential they too will have!
Selling is not difficult, Most people see the opportunity just by reading this
letter.

WHAT DO BUYERS DO?

When your customer loads your duplicated disk, they will be instructed to do the
same as you. They will purchase the computer codes they need to "unlock"
their program ( just like you did ) and begin to duplicate the disk, as many times
as they wish. Before they duplicate, your name and address will have
automatically been added into the system as an additional code vendor and
one name will have been deleted. This is no different than removing a name
from your rolodex. One name is added, one is removed.

MONEY MAKER LIKE YOU HAVE NEVER SEEN!!!

This is what could happen.

If you sell a minimum of 6 disks for $20 each, you will have back your original
$120 ( Except for the cost of some blank disks). If those 6 people sell just 6 each
all of those 36 disks will list your name and address as a code vendor. 36 people
will now send you $20 each along with a Purchase Orders generated by their disk
( total potential here is another $720 ). All you do is enter the Purchase Order
information into your program and your computer will automatically print out the
codes they have purchased from you. This takes about 30 seconds. Mail the codes
to your customers right away! Remember, the sooner they get their codes, the sooner
your name will be duplicated again and again!

Now when those 36 people sell to 6 people each, your name will automatically
move to the next position on ther screen. As one of the five code vendors, 216 (36
x 6) will each be sending you $20 for your codes ( which they must have to let
them make copies they can sell ). That's $4320 to add to your first $720...which
add up to $5040 so far. And that's only the start of it! if the 216 people sell
to only 6 others each, and your name moves to the 3rd position on everybodys
screen, potentially 1,296 people will be sending you $20...which is $25,920 PLUS
the $5,040 you received earlier. The potential earning so far could total $30,960 !


THE MULTIPLIER EFFECT  ( Here is where it becomes AWESOME !)

Your next payment in the 4th position could be $20 times 7776, which is
$155,520 .. Add that to your previous $30,960, and the grand total is $186,480...
when the 5th and final position is reached, your name disappears from future duplicated
disks. By then your TOTAL INCOME COULD BE $1,119,600!! AND REMEMBER THAT'S IF EVERYONE
IN YOUR GROUP ONLY SOLD 6 DISKS.


CAN YOU SELL MORE THAN SIX DISKS?

YES! MEGA$NETS allows you to make as manys disks as you wish. The 5 codes
you buy have licensed you to duplicate as many disks as you want. The software
will even calculate the results with whatever number you choose.

NO ONE CAN CHEAT YOU!!

That's right , it's impossible to cheat MEGA$NETS software! No names and 
addresses can be erased to put in the names of "friends", and the software is
programmed to generate constantly changing codes, nothing works! You are a true computer
software vendor and provider of valuable computer information codes that only you can
provide for your customers.


The MEGA$NETS Business System disk was developed by a professional commercial computer
programmer. It looks professional and works professionally. ( Some of today's best
whiz-kids have tried to break the system and failed.) In addition, MEGA$NETS checks itself
for viruses. If it finds any modifications, it would simply refuse to run, so your system
is fully protected without damaging your files. The distribution process is a similar
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absolutely sure that each copy is the same as the original, but with your personalized
information.


Let's take a mintue and truly understand what this business is all about. First of all,
it is NOT an investment. You are purchasing a product: a computer software program
with a 100% MONEY BACK GUARANTEE. Next, you can buy codes that will unlock the program
so you can make duplicated disks and sell them. Soon, customers will be requesting codes
from you. You become a vendor. You have something your customers need. That's real sales!
That's real business! Isn't that what American businesses do every day of the week? 
Don't they get paid for selling someone a product, a service or just some information?


IS THIS LEGAL?

As we have seen, MEGA$NETS is like any other legal information-driven company. 
First, you sell the software program which includes valuable marketing information
your customers can use for any business. Secondly,as an information vendor, you will be
selling valuable computer codes to your customers.Thirdly, you will be developing a 
mailing list out of your customers that can help you in promoting other customers that
can help you in promoting other income opportunities you may want to offer. Huge
multi-billion dollar worldwide companies do this every hour of the day. MEGA$NETS is no
different,we just use network marketing to get the job done.Plus, there are NO MEETINGS
TO ATTEND and no corporate headquaters or hot-shot executives who can change the plan
or grab  your earnings.


In effect, you are the owner and CEO of your own computer software network marketing
company! All you have to do now is purchase your disk and you are on your way to earnings
potential that will bring you financial independence! Just be ready to handle the volume!
You are now in the computer software mail order business. Treat this like a real business
and it can earn you the income of a real business! MEGA$INCOME.



DONT WAIT. DO IT NOW!!! 

LOADS OF CASH AWAITS YOU!!!

Call to hear live testimonials on MEGA$NETS ( It's FREE !!)
(888) 220-5808

To Order Your MEGA$NETS Disk

Send $20 Cash OR Money Order Payable To :
( INCLUDE Self Addressed Stamped Envelope )


GES
P.O. BOX 601162
SAN DIEGO, CA 92160


ACT NOW !!!

MEGA$NETS Comes with a 100% Money Back Guarantee!!   



	





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adidas9062@aol.com
Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 11:56:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: HYPER PORN!!!
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

 


To: Adidas9062@aol.com
Subject: Fwd: HYPER PORN!!!
From: Adidas9062@aol.com
Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 13:28:43 EDT



To: Adidas9062@aol.com
Subject: HYPER PORN!!!
From: Adidas9062@aol.com
Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 22:12:59 EDT

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 18:03:02 -0700 (PDT)
To: masanori fushimi 
Subject: Kirtland Air Force Base
Message-ID: <35709AFC.7DD3@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Saturday 5/30/98 5:15 PM

J Orlin Grabbe
Masanori Fushimi

Orline just saw  Spies Turn to High Tech Info Ops both at

at http://www.aci.net/kalliste/ and http://www.jya.com/crypto.htm

Friday at noon, after Lunch with Morales, I ventured onto Kirtland AFB
through the Wyoming gate.

In order to get into the National Atomic Museum I had to produce

	1  Drivers license
	2  proper car registration
	3  proof of insurance.

The airman who was to check 1,2,and 3 was busy on the phone.

The airman was reading serial numbers on a bullet-proof vest.

I asked the airman who THEY were afraid of.

The airman responded,

	1  gangs
	2  militias

The airman quipped that while he was unlucky enough to lose on 
a lottery ticket, he might be unfortunate enough to take bullet.

Therefore, the airman said he was wearing a bullet-proof vest, even in
about 90F weather.

I went to the museum and bought two FIRST ATOMIC BOMBARDMENT, 
50th ANNIVERSARY refrigerator magnets, like the one I sent to John
Young.

I mailed the one to Orlin, but I have the one for Masanori pasted on the
side on one of my computers.

Masanori, the book Decision to Use the Atomic Bomb by Gar Alperovitz
presents fairly good evidence some in US government nuked Hiroshima and
Nagasaki merely to impress the Russians.

Unfortunately, as we can see by the current government crypto debacle,
overall intellect of the US government has not improved much since 1945.
And maybe has decreased.

Masanori, one positive side of the unfortunate matter is that LOTS MORE 
people are reading your scientific papers.

http://av.yahoo.com/bin/query?p=gfsr&hc=0&hs=0

Let's all, of course, hope for settlement of these regrettable matters.

Later and, of course, Allahu akbar
bill






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Gilmore 
Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 18:04:35 -0700 (PDT)
To: bill payne 
Subject: Re: FOIA fee waiver denial lawsuit
In-Reply-To: <356F5BAC.6D4D@nmol.com>
Message-ID: <199805310104.SAA02100@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hi folks -- sorry to add to your mail load.

Disbelieve any assertions or ideas that Bill Payne offers, about a joint
lawsuit including me and him as plaintiffs.  I could never aspire to
match his level of effectiveness at pursuing complaints against the
government.

	John Gilmore





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 17:11:12 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: BXA's KR Agents, NSA's Cult
Message-ID: <199805310011.UAA11401@camel8.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


BXA published yesterday its guidelines for getting approval
as a Key Recovery Agent:

   http://jya.com/bxa-kraguide.htm

The House Select Committee on Intelligence "has concluded 
that very large changes in the National Security Agency's culture 
and method of operations need to take place ... and that NSA 
will not meet its Unified Cryptologic Architecture (UCA) goals 
without tackling head-on some very fundamental internal 
obstacles."

Even so, as others earlier noted here, the Committee has
ruled out lifting encryption export controls.

   http://jya.com/ciise.htm






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: one4evil@juno.com (Nalus Optic)
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 01:38:27 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: que pasa
Message-ID: <19980531.003128.9966.0.one4evil@juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Cypherpunks,
	
	I would like to thank Xcott for sending me that faq.  Alos,
thanks to the other guy who sent the info on e-mailing your way around
the web...It is VERY confusing...

	I just have a few quick questions.  I have gotten well over 25
messages from this list and so far only one of them had _anything_ to do
with crypto...I know that most or all of you have a bit of background in
crypto but I am just learning.  So what I am wanting to know is a:  are
there any other crypto e-lists that are for newbies?  b:  are there any
better text philes to read that give a better introduction that is for a
newbie and c:  what do you people feel is the best encryption someone can
have that I could get?

	Thanks,

	D.

	

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSqncrs@aol.com
Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 14:26:58 -0700 (PDT)
To: Cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: FYI
Message-ID: <4b356dc0.357114cb@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


If you've heard rumors about Amway being a cult, it's true.  It's part of the
right-wing/ChristianCoalition cult.  If anyone wants to see my evidence, let
me know.

Stan




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: troen444@worldnet.att.net
Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 17:57:39 -0700 (PDT)
To: ccpo53urd11@generalnet.com
Subject: Earn $100 every time OUR phone rings...
Message-ID: <199806010057.RAA03064@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



ALL YOU DO IS ADVERTISE THIS 800 NUMBER! THAT'S ALL!! 

$100 goes to you for EVERY sale that the company closes!

Does the idea of making at least $1,000 per week beginning your 2nd week of 
doing business excite you? 

How about never having to sell a thing to your customer and never having 
to talk to ANYONE to make money? I don't know how this could get any easier.

Take a look at my latest WEEKLY commission checks: 
    http://www.cyberdue.com/fortune/

EVERY aspect of selling or talking to someone is DONE COMPLETELY by the company!  

The number one home based business for the 2nd year in a row, Fortune 5000 
is a member of the Better Business Bureau and the U.S. Chamber of Commerce.

WHAT THIS BUSINESS WILL DO FOR YOU:

* Handles all your calls, closes your sales, and 
  sends you WEEKLY commission checks! 

* It pays you a $100 commission (that's over 50% of the total sale)
  for EVERY sale. CHECKS put $$$ in your pocket in less than your first 
  week or two... Quick commission earnings build and maintain motivation. 
  ALL YOU DO IS ADVERTISE the toll-free number and your ID number. 

* You can get STARTED TODAY. Just advertise the business toll-free 
  number with your ID # and let this business CLOSE YOUR SALES every day...
  They do all the work and YOU GET PAID FOR IT! 

* You may advertise any way you choose: Bulk E-Mail, Flyers, Classifieds, 
  Postcards, etc. Suppose you use bulk E-Mail, as I am: 100,000 E-Mails
  with a 1/10th of a percent (0.1%) sales rate at $100 per sale nets 
  $10,000... not too bad.

There is nothing else out there that will provide you with an immediate income 
beginning THIS WEEK with minimal effort.

Before you call, I want you to think about the quality of the live 
operators handling your call. I am convinced you will not find 
a better team of closers for your own personal sales.  You will 
clearly understand what I am talking about once you call.  

PLEASE DON'T LET THIS PASS YOU BY. MAKE THE CALL!!

1-800-811-2141

You will be asked for ID #50030 when you call.

(Live operators are available from 8 AM-10 PM CST Monday through Saturday and 
will be able to answer any questions you may have.)

Call one of the 24hr TESTIMONIAL lines at 888-703-5389, 888-446-6949, 888-446-6951
or 888-731-3457 (all toll free). 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 23:20:54 -0700 (PDT)
To: j orlin grabbe 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Sunday 5/31/98 6:06 PM

J Orlin Grabbe

Read at http://www.aci.net/kalliste/ tonight

  India vs. Pakistan
  Another Pakistan Nuke..  Dr. Abdul Qadeer

Friday  5/15/1998 Albuquerque Journal, Universal Press Syndicate,
Syndicated Columnist Richard Reeves writes

  U.S. Indignation at India's Nuclear Testing Hypocritical
  
  London -  So, India has conducted its second test of a nuclear weapon,
and its
  third, fourth, and fist and sixth, in the past few days.  That put it
1,026 tests
  behind the United States. ...
    This has been coming for a long, time - and we have been foolish or
deliberately
  looking the wrong way for decades. Fifteen years ago, in 1983, we the
Reeves family,
  were living in the district called E-7, the best neighborhood in
Islamabad, the capital of 
  Pakistan.  (My wife was doing work involving refugee camps in the
northwest of the 
  country, across the border from the Afghan-Soviet war.)
    Like everyone else around there, including American diplomats, we
knew why military
  car arrived each morning to take the fellow around the corer, Abdel
Qadeer Kahn, to his
  office - or laboratory.  Kahn was in charge of building the bomb out
in the Pakistani desert
  at a place called Kahuta. This was the so-called "Islamic bomb" ready
for use against India,
  which had conducted its first test in 1974.  Whatever we though,
Pakistanis believed nuclear
  weapons were essential to checkmate the change of being overwhelmed by
India., their
  10-time-as-big neighbor.  ...

Small world. See Los Angeles Times syndicated columnist Richard Reeves
at http://www.jya.com/whp052898.htm

John Young's voice telephone is being picked-up by his fax tonight.

Let's all hope for prompt peaceful settlement of the unfortunate matter.

Later
bill






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 23:22:58 -0700 (PDT)
To: j orlin grabbe 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Sunday 5/31/98 7:03 PM

Orlin

I erred by not transcribing Reeve's conclusion in his Friday  5/15/1998
Albuquerque Journal editorial

     Our policy is not stupid.  It's hypocritical and delusionary, but
not stupid.  What was stupid   was to actually believe that countries
like India, Pakistan, China, and Iran and Israel, too,    would act on
American words and illusions rather than on their own national interests
and fears.    This American blunder of intelligence  and intellect is
not another inside-the-beltway,   Ken-and-Monica joke.  This is an
affair of state, a failure of state. Officials should not be  
subpoenaed or mocked;  they should resign or be fired.

Let ALL hope for release of the documents requested at
http://www.jya.com/whp052898.htm and peaceful
settlement of another "American blunder of intelligence".

Later
bill






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSqncrs@aol.com
Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 17:36:52 -0700 (PDT)
To: Cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: FYI
Message-ID: <322a25d9.3571f777@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Someone wrote me in private - 
<< Yes, we want to see
 
 On Sun, 31 May 1998 StanSqncrs@aol.com wrote:
 
 > If you've heard rumors about Amway being a cult, it's true.  It's part of
the
 > right-wing/ChristianCoalition cult.  If anyone wants to see my evidence,
let
 > me know. >>

I caught an Amway employee (works in Ada and everything) on a music list
engaging in the censorship of the messages in that band's music.

But first, a who's who of the people involved in the war on the Arts/Music -

gopher://gopher.igc.apc.org/00/orgs/alternet/demval/cultwars

You'll notice Mr. and Mrs. Richard DeVos of the DeVos foundation listed, his
son runs Amway, and Richard was the guy who started it (along with another
person).

Here's my Amway employee threatening to use Amway lawyers against someone (me)
simply trying to speak on a music list - 
=====
In a message dated 4/27/98 8:43:23 AM Central Daylight Time,
Russell_Gorton@amway.com writes: 

<< ... buddy.  I'm
      just down the hall from a team of about 80 high-powered lawyers who
      are fledgling experts in Internet harassment issues (amway.com is a
      very-flamed, very-hacked, very high-profile domain. >>



<< --Russell Thomas Gorton  Amway Corporation (yup, the direct-sell soap
empire) Ada, Michigan, USA >>
=====
Of course, I do admit, that I do speak from a left POV. ;-)

You see, the band is a band called Camel, and I like to talk about their
lyrics.  One song's lyrics I posted was this one -
=====
'Refugee' - 'Stationary Traveer' (lyrics by Susan Hoover)

There's a rumour flying through the air
Paranoia's creeping everywhere.
You're gonna raise a wall -
to draw the line

You say you've got your reasons
I hear them all the time
You say it's talking treason
and a crime ...
to question why

Don't you know I've seen this all before?
History repeats itself once more.
I don't want to go -
and I can't stay

You say you've got your reasons
I hear them all the time
You say it's talking treason
and a crime ...
to question why

I don't want to be a refugee,
I just want a single guarantee.
I don't want to be a refugee
I JUST WANT THE RIGHT TO DISAGREE.
=====
Basicly, Russell is part of a right-wing gang working the Camelogue list.  It
is documented here - http://members.aol.com/whtsametau/ofir.html.  It's called
The Humpheads.  When you get the the code - "&y", though, haven't updated
that.  Here's something I snuck to the Camelogue list -
=====
3) Fish.  X-tian fish.  You can find a real one here on &y's server (if not in
the supposed user's address ;-) ) - http://www.roadkill.com/~dpgerdes/

But these guys don't like to do business with folk other than their own,
that's why they use that symbol.  Here's where &y's X-tian fish is - "&y".
Take the & and remove the top loop of it in your mind, and it certainly looks
MUCH like an X-tian fish!

That's how I found &y's picture, I looked for that symbol on his server.  You
see, his compadres know what to look for.  Can you say "right-wing
conspiracy"?  Sure, I knew ya could!
=====
&y (Andy) Burnett is the "moderator nazi" (his words) of that list.  He has no
real info about himself on his facad server - Roadkill Consulting
(www.roadkill.com).  But he had a picture stashed (in a 5 meg movie) in a
place that only his right-wing buddies (or someone observing the right-wing
conspiracy) would think to click.  On one of his supposed user's boring pages
at the very bottom in fine print where he thanks "&y" for his webspace, and
the "&y" is a link. 

So, if you also see a bunch of evidence against folk other than the Amway
employee, remember, that Amway employee is part of a gang, and that
accomplices in crimes are JUST as guilty as the actual trigger-person,
therefore, you need to know what his compadres are also doing.

Stan,
'Wall of Reality' Webring
http://members.aol.com/RealityWal/




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: waconsult@yahoo.com
Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 21:24:26 -0700 (PDT)
To: u@public.com
Subject: 4 U
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hello there,


I make a habit of deleting mail I have not yet read, as I'm
sure you do also. Please read this one though, you might
find this interesting.

"I recently lost my high paying job from a major computer
corporation due to their loss of a major contract. They
messed up, but that whole department of 15 people including
myself are hung out to dry. Corporate America at it's
finest. I have not had luck yet finding another job, as my
skills were very specific to that company and not really
worth anything to another company.

During the time I worked there, I also bought and sold real
estate like those guys on TV. (yes, you can do that and make
it work for you too) The key is I made it work. I was fairly
successful until the 'Nightmare on Pleasant St.' as my
friends and I call it ... I lost most of my money in that
one bad deal and I was no longer financially secure and I
relied heavily on my income from my FORMER JOB.

As you've already heard, I lost that too and I started to
look for other things I could make money to help me get back
on my feet. So, I started to read all of the JUNK that
people have mailed to me. Let me tell you, I can't believe
some of the things out there ... what a waste of time.

Until I saw this. Hold on.

I know you are (like I was) ready to stop reading right here
 I implore you not to. I (like you) am NOT some non-educated
fool. I have made much money for myself in Real Estate,
which is not an easy business. I am a rather competent
business man.

At least finish reading this until the end.
BETTER STILL: PRINT THIS LETTER AND READ IT IN COMFORT OVER,
AND OVER.

Here is what I saw ... 
* I only needed $20 extra dollars to try this
* this is making money for people who at least tried a
little, so why not me too?

In desperation, I sent the four 5 dollar bills and got the
reports. As I always have, I MADE this work for me too. I
took much time and effort to learn about e-mail (which is a
great and FREE tool!!) and how to send lots of it.

19 days after my first mailing of this, I have received
roughly 8,450 responses. (trust me, when my fiancée` saw
8,450 five dollar bills on the kitchen table, she no longer
laughed at me for trying this)" Matthew of Basqiuat in
Evanston, IL wrote.

Here is a special offer to help you. When you order any of
the reports from EDHAY, PO BOX 13511, Sacramento CA 95815
or as long as the above address is on the address list
below, you will receive the step-by-step instructions on
HOW YOU CAN MAKE $250,000 THROUGH THIS PROGRAM in addition
to 10,000 e-mail addresses to start e-mailing your offers
immediately. It took some time and expense to put this
together so please add another $5 for handling the addresses
and the instructions. They will come to you in a .txt format.
You will get the list of addresses and instructions with
your report.

If you follow the directions in this e-mail and be prepared
to eventually set aside about an hour each day to follow up
(and count your money!), you will make it. You don't need to
be a computer whiz, but I'll bet you already are. If you can
open an envelope, remove the money, and send an e-mail
message, then you're on your way to the bank. Take the time
to read this so you'll understand how easy it is. If I can
do this, so can you!

SAVE THIS E-MAIL IN A FOLDER OF YOUR CHOICE BY CLICKING ON
'Save As' IN THE 'File' MENUE AT THE TOP LEFT CORNER OF THIS
WINDOW. GIVE IT AN APPROPRIATE FILE NAME AND CHOOSE 'Plain
Text' AS THE FILE TYPE FORMAT. THAT WAY, YOU WILL HAVE A
COPY OF THIS FOR FUTURE USE.

This is a LEGAL, MONEY-MAKING PHENOMENON.
PRINT this letter, read the directions, THEN READ IT
AGAIN!!!

You are about to embark on the most profitable and unique
program you may ever see. Many times over, it has demonstrated
and proven its ability to generate large amounts of cash. This
program is showing fantastic appeal with a huge and
ever-growing on-line population desirous of additional income.

This is a legitimate, LEGAL, money-making opportunity. It
does not require you to come in contact with people, do any
hard work, and best of all, you never have to leave the
house, except to get the mail and go to the bank!

This truly is that lucky break you've been waiting for!
Simply follow the easy instructions in this letter, and your
financial dreams will come true! When followed correctly,
this electronic, multi-level marketing program works
perfectly ... 100% EVERY TIME!

Thousands of people have used this program to:
   - Raise capital to start their own business
   - Pay off debts
   - Buy homes, cars, etc.,
   - Even retire!

This is your chance, so don't pass it up!


GO FOR IT NOW!
Ed Hay





******* P R O G R A M   O V E R V I E W *******

Basically, this is what we do:
We send thousands of people a product for $5.00 that costs
next to nothing to produce and e-mail. As with all
multi-level businesses, we build our business by recruiting
new partners and selling our products. Every state in the
U.S. allows you to recruit new business online (via your
computer).

The products in this program are a series of four business
and financial reports costing $5.00 each. Each order you
receive via "snail mail" will include:
  * $5.00 cash
  * The name and number of the report they are ordering
  * The e-mail address where you will e-mail them the report
they ordered

To fill each order, you simply e-mail the product to the
buyer. THAT'S IT! The $5.00 is yours! This is the EASIEST
electronic business anywhere!

FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS TO THE LETTER AND BE PREPARED TO
REAP THE STAGGERING BENEFITS!



******* I N S T R U C T I O N S *******

This is what you MUST do:

1. Order all 4 reports shown on the list below (you can't
sell them if you don't order them):
   * For each report, send $5.00 CASH, the NAME & NUMBER OF
THE REPORT YOU ARE ORDERING, YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS, and YOUR
RETURN POSTAL ADDRESS (in case of a problem) to the person
whose name appears on the list next to the report.
   * When you place your order, make sure you order each of
the four reports. You will need all four reports so that you
can save them on your computer and resell them.
   * Within a few days you will receive, via e-mail, each of
the four reports. Save them on your computer so they will be
accessible for you to send reports to the 1,000's of people
who will order them from you.

2. IMPORTANT-- DO NOT alter the names of the people who are
listed next to each report, or their sequence on the list,
in any way other than is instructed below in steps "a"
through "e" or you will lose out on the majority of your
profits. Once you understand the way this works, you'll
also see how it doesn't work if you change it. Remember,
this method has been tested, and if you alter it, it will
not work.
   a. Look below for the listing of available reports.
   b. After you've ordered the four reports, replace the
name and address under REPORT #1 with your name and address,
moving the one that was there down to REPORT #2.
   c. Move the name and address that was under REPORT #2
down to REPORT #3.
   d. Move the name and address that was under REPORT #3
down to REPORT #4. The name and address that was under
REPORT #4 is removed from the list and has NO DOUBT
collected their 50 grand.
   e. Please make sure you copy everyone's name and address
ACCURATELY!!!

3. Take this entire letter, including the modified list of
names, and save it to your computer. Make NO changes to the
instruction portion of this letter.

4. Now you're ready to start an e-mail campaign on the World
Wide Web! E-mailing is very, very inexpensive. You can buy
e-mail lists for under $20/2,000 addresses or you can pay
someone a minimal charge to take care of it for you. For
additional $5, you will receive 10,000 e-mail addresses and
the step-by-step instructions on HOW YOU CAN MAKE $250,000
through this program when you order any of the reports from
me, EDHAY, PO BOX 13511, Sacramento CA 95815. START YOUR
E-MAIL CAMPAIGN IMMEDIATELY!

5. For every $5.00 you receive from interested participants,
all you must do is e-mail them the report they ordered.
THAT'S IT! ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON ALL ORDERS!
This will guarantee that the e-mail THEY send out, with YOUR
name and address on it, will be prompt because they can't
send their e-mails until they receive the reports!



******* R E P O R T S *******

Notes:
- ALWAYS SEND $5 CASH FOR EACH REPORT
- Order Each REPORT by NUMBER and NAME
- ALWAYS SEND YOUR ORDER VIA REGULAR MAIL
- Make sure the cash is concealed by wrapping it in at least
two sheets of paper
- On one of those sheets of paper, include: (a)the number &
name of the report you are ordering, (b)your e-mail address,
and (c)your postal address.

______________________________________________
REPORT #1 "HOW TO REORGANIZE YOUR TIME TO ACCOMIDATE A HOME
BASED BUSINESS"
 
ORDER REPORT #1 FROM:
       WA Consult
       2511 S Illinois Ave, Suite 35
       Carbondale, IL 62901
______________________________________________
REPORT #2 "MAJOR CORPORATIONS AND E-MAIL"

ORDER REPORT #2 FROM:
       EDHAY
       PO BOX 13511
       Sacramento, CA 95853
______________________________________________
REPORT #3 "SOURCES FOR THE BEST MAILING LISTS"

ORDER REPORT #3 FROM:
       SMINC
       1435 Warner Street, Suite 8
       Chico, CA 95926
______________________________________________
REPORT #4 "EVALUATING MULTI-LEVEL SALES PLANS"

ORDER REPORT #4 FROM:
       Basqiuat
       PO BOX 1663
       Evanston, IL 60205
______________________________________________




******* H O W   D O E S   I T   W O R K ? *******

Let's say you decide to start small just to see how well it
works. Assume your goal is to get 10 people to participate on
your first level. (Placing a lot of FREE ads on the internet
will EASILY get a larger response.) Also assume that everyone
else in YOUR ORGANIZATION gets ONLY 10 downline members.
Follow this example to achieve the STAGGERING results below.

1st level--your 10 members with $5.........................$50
2nd level--10 members from those 10 ($5 x 100)............$500
3rd level--10 members from those 100 ($5 x 1,000).......$5,000
4th level--10 members from those 1,000 ($5 x 10,000)...$50,000
--------------------------------------------------------------
A TOTAL OF.............................................$55,550
--------------------------------------------------------------

Remember friends, this assumes that the people who participate
only recruit 10 people each. Think for a moment what would
happen if they got 20 people to participate! Most people get
100's of participants! THINK ABOUT IT! Your cost to
participate in this is practically nothing (surely you can
afford $20). You obviously already have an internet connection
and e-mail is FREE!!! REPORT#3 shows you the most productive
methods for bulk e-mailing and purchasing e-mail lists. Some
list & bulk e-mail vendors even work on trade!

About 50,000 new people get online every month!



******* T I P S   F O R   S U C C E S S *******

 * TREAT THIS AS YOUR BUSINESS! Be prompt, professional, and
follow the directions accurately.
 * Send for the four reports IMMEDIATELY so you will have them
when the orders start coming in because when you receive a
$5 order, you MUST send out the requested product/report to
comply with the U.S. Postal & Lottery Laws, Title 18,Sections
1302 and 1341 or Title 18, Section 3005 in the U.S. Code, also
Code of Federal Regs. Vol. 16, Sections 255 and 436, which
state that 'a product or service must be exchanged for money
received.'
 * ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON THE ORDERS YOU RECEIVE.
 * Be patient and persistent with this program. If you follow
the instructions exactly, the results WILL undoubtedly be
SUCCESSFUL!
 * ABOVE ALL, HAVE FAITH IN YOURSELF AND KNOW YOU WILL SUCCEED




******* S U C C E S S   G U I D E L I N E *******

Follow these guidelines to guarantee your success:
 * If you don't receive 10 to 20 orders for REPORT #1 within
two weeks, continue advertising until you do.
 * Then, a couple of weeks later you should receive at least
100 orders for REPORT #2. If you don't, continue advertising
until you do.
 * Once you have received 100 or more orders for REPORT #2,
YOU CAN RELAX, because the system is already working for you,
and the cash will continue to roll in!

THIS IS IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER:
Every time your name is moved down on the list, you are placed
in front of a DIFFERENT report. You can KEEP TRACK of your
PROGRESS by watching which report people are ordering from you
 If you want to generate more income, send another batch of
e-mails and start the whole process again! There is no limit
to the income you will generate from this business!

NOTE:
If you need help with starting a business, registering a
business name, how income tax is handled, etc., contact your
local office of the Small Business Administrations (a Federal
agency) for free help and answer to questions. Also, the
Internal Revenue Service offers free help via telephone and
free seminars about business taxes.



******* T E S T I M O N I A L S *******

______________________________________________


This program does work, but you must follow it EXACTLY!
Especially the rule of not trying to place your name in a
different position, it won't work and you'll lose a lot of
potential income. I'm living proof that it works. It really is
a great opportunity to make relatively easy money, with little
cost to you. If you do choose to participate, follow the
program exactly, and you'll be on your way to financial
security.

Sean McLaughlin, Jackson, MS
______________________________________________


My name is Frank. My wife, Doris, and I live in Bel-Air, MD.
I am a cost accountant with a major U.S. Corporation and I
make pretty good money. When I received the program I grumbled
to Doris about receiving "junk mail." I made fun of the whole
thing, spouting my knowledge of the population and percentages
involved. I "knew" it wouldn't work. Doris totally ignored my
supposed intelligence and jumped in with both feet. I made
merciless fun of her, and was ready to lay the old "I told you
so" on her when the thing didn't work ... well, the laugh was
on me! Within two weeks she had received over 50 responses.
Within 45 days she had received over $147,200 in $5 bills! I
was shocked! I was sure that I had it all figured and that it
wouldn't work. I AM a believer now. I have joined Doris in her
"hobby." I did have seven more years until retirement, but I
think of the "rat race" and it's not for me. We owe it all to
MLM.

Frank T., Bel-Air, MD
______________________________________________


The main reason for this letter is to convince you that this
system is honest, lawful, extremely profitable, and is a way
to get a large amount of money in a short time. I was
approached several times before I checked this out. I joined
just to see what one could expect in return for the minimal
effort and money required. To my astonishment, I received
$36,470.00 in the first 14 weeks, with money still coming in.

Sincerely yours, Phillip A. Brown, Esq.
______________________________________________


Not being the gambling type, it took me several weeks to make
up my mind to participate in this plan. But conservative that
I am, I decided that the initial investment was so little that
there was just no way that I wouldn't get enough orders to at
least get my money back. Boy, was I surprised when I found my
medium-size post office box crammed with orders! For awhile,
it got so overloaded that I had to start picking up my mail at
the window. I'll make more money this year than any 10 years
of my life before. The nice thing about this deal is that it
doesn't matter where in the U.S. the people live. There simply
 isn't a better investment with a faster return.

Mary Rockland, Lansing, MI
______________________________________________


I had received this program before. I deleted it, but later I
wondered if I shouldn't have given it a try. Of course, I had
no idea who to contact to get another copy, so I had to wait
until I was e-mailed another program ... 11 months passed then
it came ... I didn't delete this one! ... I made more than
$41,000 on the first try!!

D. Wilburn, Muncie, IN
______________________________________________


This is my third time to participate in this plan. We have
quit our jobs, and will soon buy a home on the beach and live
off the interest on our money. The only way on earth that this
plan will work for you is if you do it. For your sake, and for
your family's sake don't pass up this golden opportunity. Good
luck and happy spending!

Charles Fairchild, Spokane, WA
______________________________________________


ORDER YOUR REPORTS TODAY AND GET STARTED ON YOUR ROAD TO
FINANCIAL FREEDOM!!!


If you are not interested, we apologize for the intrusion.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 17:12:19 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks-announce@toad.com
Subject: ANNOUNCE Bay Area Cypherpunks Meeting - May 9, 12-6pm
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980506155016.008dd510@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


The May Bay Area Cypherpunks Meeting will be Saturday at
Temenos, 459 Fulton St. Suite 307, San Francisco.

Some planned agenda items include
- GSM crack hardware demo - Lucky Green
- GSM cryptanalysis details - Ian Goldberg
- Anon mailbox servers - Lucky Green
- OpenPGP status
- hacks in progress

The meeting will be at the usual time - mill around at 12,
organized part starts at 1, dinner nearby later.

459 Fulton is a few blocks west of Van Ness, 
probably closest to the Civic Center BART stop.


				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill.stewart@pobox.com
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 16:16:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199805062316.QAA22622@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: global202@yahoo.com
Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 03:02:44 -0700 (PDT)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: The Internet Success ToolBox
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Note:We do not wish to send e-mail to anyone that does
not want it so please send an e-mail to:
remove98@yahoo.com
You will be removed promptly.
*****************************************************************

"THE INTERNET SUCCESS TOOLBOX"
The Most Complete Marketing Software Package Available Anywhere!

This is what you will receive on  CD-ROM:

1. Submit Spider Software - Professional Version ($99.90 value) - 
The new and improved version just released. Created specifically 
to meet the needs of those who  want their web pages to get 
NOTICED and placed in the TOP of the Search   Engines! This 
software automates  the process of submitting your site and 
uses powerful technology to get your site listed in the TOP positions.

2. Stealth Mass Mailer ($399.00 value) - This unique, first of 
it's kind - software that allows you to easily send 250,000 e-mail 
messages an hour. Simply enough by making a single 
connection to the Internet using a standard modem, and connecting to
either 20 different mail servers, or a single mail server 20 times.

This, easy to use, software is designed for the basic computer 
user to understand. It's as easy as imputing the mail server, 
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letter, and pressing send.

3. E-Mail Pro Extractor ($350.00 value) - This one of a kind software 
program is designed to manage and clean up any list of e-mail
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e-mail addresses by domain names.

The E-mail Pro Version 4.0 Bulk E-mail Loader also imports simple
text files that anyone can download from AOL, CompuServe, the
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files are filled with e-mail addresses.

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Version 2.1 is a state of the art, revolutionary software that allows
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5. 16 Million E-mail Addresses ($149.00 value) - We took a total of 
over 92 million e-mail addresses from many of the touted CD's that 
are out there (bought them all - some were $300+)! We added the 
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we had in excess of 100+ million addresses in one huge file.

We then ran a super "sort/de-dupe" program against this 
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We then ran a program that contained 150+ keywords to 
remove addresses with vulgarity, profanity, sex-related 
names, postmaster, webmaster, flamer, abuse, spam, 
etc...Also we  eliminated all .edu, .mil., org., gov., etc...
After that list was run against the remaining list, it
reduced it down to near 16 million addresses!

So, you see, our list will save people hundreds of 
dollars buying all others that are out there on  CD. Using
ours will be like using the 100+ million that we started with, 
but a lot less money and a lot less time!

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____ YES!  I'm bursting with anticipation!  Please send me "The 
Internet Success Toolbox" so I can start advertising my business to 
"millions of people" - absolutely FREE!  I'm anxious to see how others 
are creating immediate "cash-flow explosions", and eliminating most of  
their advertising and marketing costs - and how I can do the same!  
Enclosed is $395.

____ YES AGAIN!  Because I'm responding within 7 days, I will receive 
6 BONUSES with a total value of $663.90 - absolutely FREE!  They include: 

BONUS #1 ($39 value): "Search Engine Secrets" - Discover the Most 
Powerful and Proven Strategies that really work to place you at the Top of
the Search Engines!

BONUS #2 ($195 value): A FREE one year subcription to "The Internet
Success Toolbox Newsletter" - my ticket to marketing and 
internet cash flow heaven!  

BONUS #3 ($39.95 value): Your Hotline List of "7000 Free Classified 
Ad Sites on the Internet" - a virtual GOLDMINE!  

BONUS #4 ($19.95 value): A FREE Special Report titled "How to Put Your 
Business on Automatic Pilot and Turn Your Marketing System Into a 
Predictable, Turnkey, Cash-Flow Machine That Keeps on Working - Even 
When You Don't!!"  
									
BONUS #5 ($195 value): Unlimited technical support.  Even though 
"The Internet Success Toolbox"  will be simple to use, it's great to 
know support is always available - if and when you really need it!  
And last but not least . . . .

BONUS #6 ($175 value): Order within 7 days and I'll also throw in a 
FREE VACATION CERTIFICATE good for 3 days and 2 nights of FREE 
lodging at one of over 30 "premier" resorts.

Some vacation spots you can choose from include: Hawaii; Orlando, 
FL; Las Vegas; Atlantic City; Palm Springs; Aruba - in the South Carribean;
Cancun, Mexico; and many, many more!

Hey, when you start making a TON of money, you'll wanna do some 
celebrating, won't you? So start packing those bags!

That's it. A lot more than you bargained for isn't it?

When you total all the goodies up, you're looking as a total value of 
$663.90! All yours - absolutely FREE - with your purchase of our amazing
 package  "The Internet Success Toolbox " for only $395.00.

And I'll even pay for shipping your package. You can have it in days. And 
start making money THE VERY SAME DAY!

Anyway, I have a copy right here on my desk reserved for you. All I need 
is your go ahead and I'll rush it out to you along with your 6 FREE BONUSES.								

 Name _____________________________________________________

Street Address ____________________________________________

City)__________________State_______Zip_____________


Phone # (_____) ___________________________  

Fax # (______) _____________________

E-mail Address _________________________


___Visa  ___MasterCard

Total:$________

Account Number_____________________

Expiration Date____________________


I understand that all sales are final.


____________________________________
           Signature


To order by check:
***********************************************************

Tape or paste your check here
Fax it to us at: (425)379-9722
You do not need to send a hard copy of your check.
The fax is all we need.

(We are able to perform this service using our
Check Deposit System Software)

************************************************************


* Orders by Credit Card are shipped IMMEDIATELY.
  Fax completed order form to: (425) 379-9722

* Orders by personal, business or credit card CHECK are shipped in 7-10 
  business days.

* Orders MAILED IN or OVERNIGHTED with CASHIER'S CHECK  or MONEY ORDER are
  shipped IMMEDIATELY. Mail to: 
                       SYS
                       11014 19th Ave SE Suite 305 
                       Everett, WA 98208.
    
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 


									





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "K. M. Ellis" 
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 13:50:48 -0700 (PDT)
To: ellis@epic.org
Subject: EPIC Crypto Conference - last week for reduced registration (fwd)
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




   Top Government Officials, Industry Leaders, Cryptography Experts
      and Public Interest Advocates to Discuss Encryption Policy

                 *** Last week for Early Registration ***

                     *** CLE Credit Application Filed ***

                             Washington, DC
                          Monday, June 8, 1998

                  http://www.epic.org/events/crypto98/

Top government officials -- including Senator John Ashcroft (R-MO),
William Reinsch (Undersecretary of Commerce for Export Administration)
and Robert Litt (Principal Associate Attorney General) -- will discuss
current U.S. encryption policy at the largest policy conference on
cryptography ever held in Washington, D.C.  Other leading experts from
government, industry, the public interest community and academia will
also debate important legal, political and technical issues. If you are
interested in cryptography policy, this is the one meeting you must
attend!

The 1998 EPIC Cryptography and Privacy Conference is organized by the
Electronic Privacy Information Center, in cooperation with the Harvard
University Information Infrastructure Project and the Technology
Policy Research Group of the London School of Economics.


- THE 1998 EPIC CRYPTOGRAPHY AND PRIVACY CONFERENCE -

HIGHLIGHTS

   o Meet the technical experts, industry leaders, litigators, and
     policy makers who are shaping the global debate over encryption
     and privacy.

   o Get the latest news, reports, legislative information, and
     technical results.

   o Receive the 1998 edition of the highly-acclaimed EPIC Cryptography
     and Privacy Sourcebook.

   o Receive Continuing Legal Education Credits (CLE).


THE PANELS

   o Top U.S. government officials will debate top industry
     representatives on current U.S. policy on domestic restrictions,
     export controls, and pending legislation.

   o A panel of senior government officials from France, England,
     Canada, Germany and the European Union will describe encryption
     policies in their countries and future trends.

   o Leading cryptographers and technical experts will discuss the
     dangers and benefits of key escrow and key recovery systems and
     other important technical issues.

   o Attorneys representing the plaintiffs and the U.S. Government in
     the pending legal challenges to the constitutionality of export
     controls will discuss and debate the cases and their outcomes.


FEES:

Register before May 15 for reduced fee.

   Standard

       o $300.00 (before May 15) / $400.00 (after May 15)

   Academic/Govt/501(c)(3)

       o $150.00 (before May 15) / $200.00 (after May 15)


MORE INFORMATION, FULL AGENDA AND ONLINE REGISTRATION:

     http://www.epic.org/events/crypto98/

-------
David Banisar (Banisar@epic.org)                *    202-544-9240 (tel)
Electronic Privacy Information Center           *    202-547-5482 (fax)
666 Pennsylvania Ave, SE, Suite 301             *    HTTP://www.epic.org
Washington, DC 20003 * PGP Key  http://www.epic.org/staff/banisar/key.html







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 36997526@giselp.com
Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 01:29:10 -0700 (PDT)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: Secrets To Losing Weight Right Now and Keeping It Off Forever!
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Are You Serious About Losing Weight Right Now?
If you are, please continue.
If not, we apologize for the intrusion.

You can slim down right now using Five Simple Techniques taught by experts around the world.

It's been tested and guaranteed effective 98.2% to work with just about anyone.  It doesn't matter who you are or if you have dieted and failed before.  This program is 100% guaranteed.  It's safe for anyone, and any age.

Imagine,  getting down to that perfect dress size, or fitting into those jeans that just don't want to go on anymore.

You can lose those unwanted pounds right now without the use of:

	Expensive Diet Pills
	Awful Tasting Diet Shakes
	or, just plain starving yourself.
	And best of all, It's perfectly safe!


Summer is almost here. So say goodbye to YoYo Diets forever.

It's time to start a new You!

For Free Information on shaving those unwanted pounds safely, email us at:
weightloss@giselp.com

We guarantee you'll have a new attitude!

Please pardon our intrusion.  To be removed, Click reply and type "Remove" in Subject box and you will be permanently removed from any future mailings.








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: corvett52@yahoo.com
Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 13:08:13 -0700 (PDT)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: The Internet Success ToolBox
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Note:We do not wish to send e-mail to anyone that does
not want it so please send an e-mail to:
corvett54@yahoo.com
You will be removed promptly.
*****************************************************************

"THE INTERNET SUCCESS TOOLBOX"
The Most Complete Marketing Software Package Available Anywhere!

This is what you will receive on  CD-ROM:

1. Stealth Mass Mailer ($399.00 value) - This unique, first of 
it's kind - software that allows you to easily send 250,000 e-mail 
messages an hour. Simply enough by making a single 
connection to the Internet using a standard modem, and connecting to
either 20 different mail servers, or a single mail server 20 times.

This, easy to use, software is designed for the basic computer 
user to understand. It's as easy as imputing the mail server, 
selecting the list of e-mail recipients to send to, inserting your 
e-mail address, adding your subject line, selecting your sales 
letter, and pressing send.

2. E-Mail Pro Extractor ($350.00 value) - This one of a kind software 
program is designed to manage and clean up any list of e-mail
addresses. It will purge duplicates, manage removes and delete
undeliverables. It will also separate and categorize your list of 
e-mail addresses by domain names.

The E-mail Pro Version 4.0 Bulk E-mail Loader also imports simple
text files that anyone can download from AOL, CompuServe, the
Internet, etc...These text files contain classified ads, forum 
messages, or data from the member directory. Each of these 
files are filled with e-mail addresses.

3. Check Deposit System ($125.00 value) - Check Deposit System 
Version 2.1 is a state of the art, revolutionary software that allows
you to easily and legally process checks by fax, phone or Internet.
The customer's signature on the check is not necessary. 

4. 16 Million E-mail Addresses ($149.00 value) - We took a total of 
over 92 million e-mail addresses from many of the touted CD's that 
are out there (bought them all - some were $300+)! We added the 
millions we had in storage to those. When we combined them all, 
we had in excess of 100+ million addresses in one huge file.

We then ran a super "sort/de-dupe" program against this 
huge list. It cut the file down to less than 25 million!! 

We then ran a program that contained 150+ keywords to 
remove addresses with vulgarity, profanity, sex-related 
names, postmaster, webmaster, flamer, abuse, spam, 
etc...Also we  eliminated all .edu, .mil., org., gov., etc...
After that list was run against the remaining list, it
reduced it down to near 16 million addresses!

So, you see, our list will save people hundreds of 
dollars buying all others that are out there on  CD. Using
ours will be like using the 100+ million that we started with, 
but a lot less money and a lot less time!

If you order "The Internet Success Toolbox" for $395.00
within the next 7 days, you'll also receive the following 
awesome bonuses absolutely FREE. 
A value of over $600.00 !!!

To order: 

____ YES!  I'm bursting with anticipation!  Please send me "The 
Internet Success Toolbox" so I can start advertising my business to 
"millions of people" - absolutely FREE!  I'm anxious to see how others 
are creating immediate "cash-flow explosions", and eliminating most of  
their advertising and marketing costs - and how I can do the same!  
Enclosed is $395.

____ YES AGAIN!  Because I'm responding within 7 days, I will receive 
6 BONUSES with a total value of $663.90 - absolutely FREE!  They include: 

BONUS #1 ($39 value): "Search Engine Secrets" - Discover the Most 
Powerful and Proven Strategies that really work to place you at the Top of
the Search Engines!

BONUS #2 ($195 value): A FREE one year subcription to "The Internet
Success Toolbox Newsletter" - my ticket to marketing and 
internet cash flow heaven!  

BONUS #3 ($39.95 value): Your Hotline List of "7000 Free Classified 
Ad Sites on the Internet" - a virtual GOLDMINE!  

BONUS #4 ($19.95 value): A FREE Special Report titled "How to Put Your 
Business on Automatic Pilot and Turn Your Marketing System Into a 
Predictable, Turnkey, Cash-Flow Machine That Keeps on Working - Even 
When You Don't!!"  
									
BONUS #5 ($195 value): Unlimited technical support.  Even though 
"The Internet Success Toolbox"  will be simple to use, it's great to 
know support is always available - if and when you really need it!  
And last but not least . . . .

BONUS #6 ($175 value): Order within 7 days and I'll also throw in a 
FREE VACATION CERTIFICATE good for 3 days and 2 nights of FREE 
lodging at one of over 30 "premier" resorts.

Some vacation spots you can choose from include: Hawaii; Orlando, 
FL; Las Vegas; Atlantic City; Palm Springs; Aruba - in the South Carribean;
Cancun, Mexico; and many, many more!

Hey, when you start making a TON of money, you'll wanna do some 
celebrating, won't you? So start packing those bags!

That's it. A lot more than you bargained for isn't it?

When you total all the goodies up, you're looking as a total value of 
$663.90! All yours - absolutely FREE - with your purchase of our amazing
 package  "The Internet Success Toolbox " for only $395.00.

And I'll even pay for shipping your package. You can have it in days. And 
start making money THE VERY SAME DAY!

Anyway, I have a copy right here on my desk reserved for you. All I need 
is your go ahead and I'll rush it out to you along with your 6 FREE BONUSES.	

___Yes, Also send me info on obtaining a Merchant Account so that I can take
credit cards for my business.

___I am interested in becoming a re-seller for your company. Please send 
re-seller information.
							

 Name _____________________________________________________

Street Address ____________________________________________

City)__________________State_______Zip_____________


Phone # (_____) ___________________________  

Fax # (______) _____________________

E-mail Address _________________________


___Visa  ___MasterCard

Total:$________

Account Number_____________________

Expiration Date____________________


I understand that all sales are final.


____________________________________
           Signature


To order by check:
***********************************************************

Tape or paste your check here
Fax it to us at: (425)379-9722
You do not need to send a hard copy of your check.
The fax is all we need.

(We are able to perform this service using our
Check Deposit System Software)

************************************************************


* Orders by Credit Card are shipped IMMEDIATELY.
  Fax completed order form to: (425) 379-9722

* Orders by personal, business or credit card CHECK are shipped in 7-10 
  business days.

* Orders MAILED IN or OVERNIGHTED with CASHIER'S CHECK  or MONEY ORDER are
  shipped IMMEDIATELY. Mail to: 
                       SYS
                       11014 19th Ave SE Suite 305 
                       Everett, WA 98208.
    
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 


									





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: global8888@yahoo.com
Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 21:02:11 -0700 (PDT)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: The Internet Success ToolBox
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Note:We do not wish to send e-mail to anyone that does
not want it so please send an e-mail to:
global8889@yahoo.com
You will be removed promptly.
*****************************************************************

"THE INTERNET SUCCESS TOOLBOX"
The Most Complete Marketing Software Package Available Anywhere!

This is what you will receive on  CD-ROM:

1. Stealth Mass Mailer ($399.00 value) - This unique, first of 
it's kind - software that allows you to easily send 250,000 e-mail 
messages an hour. Simply enough by making a single 
connection to the Internet using a standard modem, and connecting to
either 20 different mail servers, or a single mail server 20 times.

This, easy to use, software is designed for the basic computer 
user to understand. It's as easy as imputing the mail server, 
selecting the list of e-mail recipients to send to, inserting your 
e-mail address, adding your subject line, selecting your sales 
letter, and pressing send.

2. E-Mail Pro Extractor ($350.00 value) - This one of a kind software 
program is designed to manage and clean up any list of e-mail
addresses. It will purge duplicates, manage removes and delete
undeliverables. It will also separate and categorize your list of 
e-mail addresses by domain names.

The E-mail Pro Version 4.0 Bulk E-mail Loader also imports simple
text files that anyone can download from AOL, CompuServe, the
Internet, etc...These text files contain classified ads, forum 
messages, or data from the member directory. Each of these 
files are filled with e-mail addresses.

3. Check Deposit System ($125.00 value) - Check Deposit System 
Version 2.1 is a state of the art, revolutionary software that allows
you to easily and legally process checks by fax, phone or Internet.
The customer's signature on the check is not necessary. 

4. 16 Million E-mail Addresses ($149.00 value) - We took a total of 
over 92 million e-mail addresses from many of the touted CD's that 
are out there (bought them all - some were $300+)! We added the 
millions we had in storage to those. When we combined them all, 
we had in excess of 100+ million addresses in one huge file.

We then ran a super "sort/de-dupe" program against this 
huge list. It cut the file down to less than 25 million!! 

We then ran a program that contained 150+ keywords to 
remove addresses with vulgarity, profanity, sex-related 
names, postmaster, webmaster, flamer, abuse, spam, 
etc...Also we  eliminated all .edu, .mil., org., gov., etc...
After that list was run against the remaining list, it
reduced it down to near 16 million addresses!

So, you see, our list will save people hundreds of 
dollars buying all others that are out there on  CD. Using
ours will be like using the 100+ million that we started with, 
but a lot less money and a lot less time!

If you order "The Internet Success Toolbox" for $395.00
within the next 7 days, you'll also receive the following 
awesome bonuses absolutely FREE. 
A value of over $600.00 !!!

To order: 

____ YES!  I'm bursting with anticipation!  Please send me "The 
Internet Success Toolbox" so I can start advertising my business to 
"millions of people" - absolutely FREE!  I'm anxious to see how others 
are creating immediate "cash-flow explosions", and eliminating most of  
their advertising and marketing costs - and how I can do the same!  
Enclosed is $395.

____ YES AGAIN!  Because I'm responding within 7 days, I will receive 
6 BONUSES with a total value of $663.90 - absolutely FREE!  They include: 

BONUS #1 ($39 value): "Search Engine Secrets" - Discover the Most 
Powerful and Proven Strategies that really work to place you at the Top of
the Search Engines!

BONUS #2 ($195 value): A FREE one year subcription to "The Internet
Success Toolbox Newsletter" - my ticket to marketing and 
internet cash flow heaven!  

BONUS #3 ($39.95 value): Your Hotline List of "7000 Free Classified 
Ad Sites on the Internet" - a virtual GOLDMINE!  

BONUS #4 ($19.95 value): A FREE Special Report titled "How to Put Your 
Business on Automatic Pilot and Turn Your Marketing System Into a 
Predictable, Turnkey, Cash-Flow Machine That Keeps on Working - Even 
When You Don't!!"  
									
BONUS #5 ($195 value): Unlimited technical support.  Even though 
"The Internet Success Toolbox"  will be simple to use, it's great to 
know support is always available - if and when you really need it!  
And last but not least . . . .

BONUS #6 ($175 value): Order within 7 days and I'll also throw in a 
FREE VACATION CERTIFICATE good for 3 days and 2 nights of FREE 
lodging at one of over 30 "premier" resorts.

Some vacation spots you can choose from include: Hawaii; Orlando, 
FL; Las Vegas; Atlantic City; Palm Springs; Aruba - in the South Carribean;
Cancun, Mexico; and many, many more!

Hey, when you start making a TON of money, you'll wanna do some 
celebrating, won't you? So start packing those bags!

That's it. A lot more than you bargained for isn't it?

When you total all the goodies up, you're looking as a total value of 
$663.90! All yours - absolutely FREE - with your purchase of our amazing
 package  "The Internet Success Toolbox " for only $395.00.

And I'll even pay for shipping your package. You can have it in days. And 
start making money THE VERY SAME DAY!

Anyway, I have a copy right here on my desk reserved for you. All I need 
is your go ahead and I'll rush it out to you along with your 6 FREE BONUSES.	

___Yes, Also send me info on obtaining a Merchant Account so that I can take
credit cards for my business.

___I am interested in becoming a re-seller for your company. Please send 
re-seller information.
							

 Name _____________________________________________________

Street Address ____________________________________________

City)__________________State_______Zip_____________


Phone # (_____) ___________________________  

Fax # (______) _____________________

E-mail Address _________________________


___Visa  ___MasterCard

Total:$________

Account Number_____________________

Expiration Date____________________


I understand that all sales are final.


____________________________________
           Signature


To order by check:
***********************************************************

Tape or paste your check here
Fax it to us at: (425)379-9722
You do not need to send a hard copy of your check.
The fax is all we need.

(We are able to perform this service using our
Check Deposit System Software)

************************************************************


* Orders by Credit Card are shipped IMMEDIATELY.
  Fax completed order form to: (425) 379-9722

* Orders by personal, business or credit card CHECK are shipped in 7-10 
  business days.

* Orders MAILED IN or OVERNIGHTED with CASHIER'S CHECK  or MONEY ORDER are
  shipped IMMEDIATELY. Mail to: 
                       SYS
                       11014 19th Ave SE Suite 305 
                       Everett, WA 98208.
    
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 


									





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: waconsult@yahoo.com
Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 21:24:26 -0700 (PDT)
To: u@public.com
Subject: 4 U
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hello there,


I make a habit of deleting mail I have not yet read, as I'm
sure you do also. Please read this one though, you might
find this interesting.

"I recently lost my high paying job from a major computer
corporation due to their loss of a major contract. They
messed up, but that whole department of 15 people including
myself are hung out to dry. Corporate America at it's
finest. I have not had luck yet finding another job, as my
skills were very specific to that company and not really
worth anything to another company.

During the time I worked there, I also bought and sold real
estate like those guys on TV. (yes, you can do that and make
it work for you too) The key is I made it work. I was fairly
successful until the 'Nightmare on Pleasant St.' as my
friends and I call it ... I lost most of my money in that
one bad deal and I was no longer financially secure and I
relied heavily on my income from my FORMER JOB.

As you've already heard, I lost that too and I started to
look for other things I could make money to help me get back
on my feet. So, I started to read all of the JUNK that
people have mailed to me. Let me tell you, I can't believe
some of the things out there ... what a waste of time.

Until I saw this. Hold on.

I know you are (like I was) ready to stop reading right here
 I implore you not to. I (like you) am NOT some non-educated
fool. I have made much money for myself in Real Estate,
which is not an easy business. I am a rather competent
business man.

At least finish reading this until the end.
BETTER STILL: PRINT THIS LETTER AND READ IT IN COMFORT OVER,
AND OVER.

Here is what I saw ... 
* I only needed $20 extra dollars to try this
* this is making money for people who at least tried a
little, so why not me too?

In desperation, I sent the four 5 dollar bills and got the
reports. As I always have, I MADE this work for me too. I
took much time and effort to learn about e-mail (which is a
great and FREE tool!!) and how to send lots of it.

19 days after my first mailing of this, I have received
roughly 8,450 responses. (trust me, when my fiancée` saw
8,450 five dollar bills on the kitchen table, she no longer
laughed at me for trying this)" Matthew of Basqiuat in
Evanston, IL wrote.

Here is a special offer to help you. When you order any of
the reports from EDHAY, PO BOX 13511, Sacramento CA 95815
or as long as the above address is on the address list
below, you will receive the step-by-step instructions on
HOW YOU CAN MAKE $250,000 THROUGH THIS PROGRAM in addition
to 10,000 e-mail addresses to start e-mailing your offers
immediately. It took some time and expense to put this
together so please add another $5 for handling the addresses
and the instructions. They will come to you in a .txt format.
You will get the list of addresses and instructions with
your report.

If you follow the directions in this e-mail and be prepared
to eventually set aside about an hour each day to follow up
(and count your money!), you will make it. You don't need to
be a computer whiz, but I'll bet you already are. If you can
open an envelope, remove the money, and send an e-mail
message, then you're on your way to the bank. Take the time
to read this so you'll understand how easy it is. If I can
do this, so can you!

SAVE THIS E-MAIL IN A FOLDER OF YOUR CHOICE BY CLICKING ON
'Save As' IN THE 'File' MENUE AT THE TOP LEFT CORNER OF THIS
WINDOW. GIVE IT AN APPROPRIATE FILE NAME AND CHOOSE 'Plain
Text' AS THE FILE TYPE FORMAT. THAT WAY, YOU WILL HAVE A
COPY OF THIS FOR FUTURE USE.

This is a LEGAL, MONEY-MAKING PHENOMENON.
PRINT this letter, read the directions, THEN READ IT
AGAIN!!!

You are about to embark on the most profitable and unique
program you may ever see. Many times over, it has demonstrated
and proven its ability to generate large amounts of cash. This
program is showing fantastic appeal with a huge and
ever-growing on-line population desirous of additional income.

This is a legitimate, LEGAL, money-making opportunity. It
does not require you to come in contact with people, do any
hard work, and best of all, you never have to leave the
house, except to get the mail and go to the bank!

This truly is that lucky break you've been waiting for!
Simply follow the easy instructions in this letter, and your
financial dreams will come true! When followed correctly,
this electronic, multi-level marketing program works
perfectly ... 100% EVERY TIME!

Thousands of people have used this program to:
   - Raise capital to start their own business
   - Pay off debts
   - Buy homes, cars, etc.,
   - Even retire!

This is your chance, so don't pass it up!


GO FOR IT NOW!
Ed Hay





******* P R O G R A M   O V E R V I E W *******

Basically, this is what we do:
We send thousands of people a product for $5.00 that costs
next to nothing to produce and e-mail. As with all
multi-level businesses, we build our business by recruiting
new partners and selling our products. Every state in the
U.S. allows you to recruit new business online (via your
computer).

The products in this program are a series of four business
and financial reports costing $5.00 each. Each order you
receive via "snail mail" will include:
  * $5.00 cash
  * The name and number of the report they are ordering
  * The e-mail address where you will e-mail them the report
they ordered

To fill each order, you simply e-mail the product to the
buyer. THAT'S IT! The $5.00 is yours! This is the EASIEST
electronic business anywhere!

FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS TO THE LETTER AND BE PREPARED TO
REAP THE STAGGERING BENEFITS!



******* I N S T R U C T I O N S *******

This is what you MUST do:

1. Order all 4 reports shown on the list below (you can't
sell them if you don't order them):
   * For each report, send $5.00 CASH, the NAME & NUMBER OF
THE REPORT YOU ARE ORDERING, YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS, and YOUR
RETURN POSTAL ADDRESS (in case of a problem) to the person
whose name appears on the list next to the report.
   * When you place your order, make sure you order each of
the four reports. You will need all four reports so that you
can save them on your computer and resell them.
   * Within a few days you will receive, via e-mail, each of
the four reports. Save them on your computer so they will be
accessible for you to send reports to the 1,000's of people
who will order them from you.

2. IMPORTANT-- DO NOT alter the names of the people who are
listed next to each report, or their sequence on the list,
in any way other than is instructed below in steps "a"
through "e" or you will lose out on the majority of your
profits. Once you understand the way this works, you'll
also see how it doesn't work if you change it. Remember,
this method has been tested, and if you alter it, it will
not work.
   a. Look below for the listing of available reports.
   b. After you've ordered the four reports, replace the
name and address under REPORT #1 with your name and address,
moving the one that was there down to REPORT #2.
   c. Move the name and address that was under REPORT #2
down to REPORT #3.
   d. Move the name and address that was under REPORT #3
down to REPORT #4. The name and address that was under
REPORT #4 is removed from the list and has NO DOUBT
collected their 50 grand.
   e. Please make sure you copy everyone's name and address
ACCURATELY!!!

3. Take this entire letter, including the modified list of
names, and save it to your computer. Make NO changes to the
instruction portion of this letter.

4. Now you're ready to start an e-mail campaign on the World
Wide Web! E-mailing is very, very inexpensive. You can buy
e-mail lists for under $20/2,000 addresses or you can pay
someone a minimal charge to take care of it for you. For
additional $5, you will receive 10,000 e-mail addresses and
the step-by-step instructions on HOW YOU CAN MAKE $250,000
through this program when you order any of the reports from
me, EDHAY, PO BOX 13511, Sacramento CA 95815. START YOUR
E-MAIL CAMPAIGN IMMEDIATELY!

5. For every $5.00 you receive from interested participants,
all you must do is e-mail them the report they ordered.
THAT'S IT! ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON ALL ORDERS!
This will guarantee that the e-mail THEY send out, with YOUR
name and address on it, will be prompt because they can't
send their e-mails until they receive the reports!



******* R E P O R T S *******

Notes:
- ALWAYS SEND $5 CASH FOR EACH REPORT
- Order Each REPORT by NUMBER and NAME
- ALWAYS SEND YOUR ORDER VIA REGULAR MAIL
- Make sure the cash is concealed by wrapping it in at least
two sheets of paper
- On one of those sheets of paper, include: (a)the number &
name of the report you are ordering, (b)your e-mail address,
and (c)your postal address.

______________________________________________
REPORT #1 "HOW TO REORGANIZE YOUR TIME TO ACCOMIDATE A HOME
BASED BUSINESS"
 
ORDER REPORT #1 FROM:
       WA Consult
       2511 S Illinois Ave, Suite 35
       Carbondale, IL 62901
______________________________________________
REPORT #2 "MAJOR CORPORATIONS AND E-MAIL"

ORDER REPORT #2 FROM:
       EDHAY
       PO BOX 13511
       Sacramento, CA 95853
______________________________________________
REPORT #3 "SOURCES FOR THE BEST MAILING LISTS"

ORDER REPORT #3 FROM:
       SMINC
       1435 Warner Street, Suite 8
       Chico, CA 95926
______________________________________________
REPORT #4 "EVALUATING MULTI-LEVEL SALES PLANS"

ORDER REPORT #4 FROM:
       Basqiuat
       PO BOX 1663
       Evanston, IL 60205
______________________________________________




******* H O W   D O E S   I T   W O R K ? *******

Let's say you decide to start small just to see how well it
works. Assume your goal is to get 10 people to participate on
your first level. (Placing a lot of FREE ads on the internet
will EASILY get a larger response.) Also assume that everyone
else in YOUR ORGANIZATION gets ONLY 10 downline members.
Follow this example to achieve the STAGGERING results below.

1st level--your 10 members with $5.........................$50
2nd level--10 members from those 10 ($5 x 100)............$500
3rd level--10 members from those 100 ($5 x 1,000).......$5,000
4th level--10 members from those 1,000 ($5 x 10,000)...$50,000
--------------------------------------------------------------
A TOTAL OF.............................................$55,550
--------------------------------------------------------------

Remember friends, this assumes that the people who participate
only recruit 10 people each. Think for a moment what would
happen if they got 20 people to participate! Most people get
100's of participants! THINK ABOUT IT! Your cost to
participate in this is practically nothing (surely you can
afford $20). You obviously already have an internet connection
and e-mail is FREE!!! REPORT#3 shows you the most productive
methods for bulk e-mailing and purchasing e-mail lists. Some
list & bulk e-mail vendors even work on trade!

About 50,000 new people get online every month!



******* T I P S   F O R   S U C C E S S *******

 * TREAT THIS AS YOUR BUSINESS! Be prompt, professional, and
follow the directions accurately.
 * Send for the four reports IMMEDIATELY so you will have them
when the orders start coming in because when you receive a
$5 order, you MUST send out the requested product/report to
comply with the U.S. Postal & Lottery Laws, Title 18,Sections
1302 and 1341 or Title 18, Section 3005 in the U.S. Code, also
Code of Federal Regs. Vol. 16, Sections 255 and 436, which
state that 'a product or service must be exchanged for money
received.'
 * ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON THE ORDERS YOU RECEIVE.
 * Be patient and persistent with this program. If you follow
the instructions exactly, the results WILL undoubtedly be
SUCCESSFUL!
 * ABOVE ALL, HAVE FAITH IN YOURSELF AND KNOW YOU WILL SUCCEED




******* S U C C E S S   G U I D E L I N E *******

Follow these guidelines to guarantee your success:
 * If you don't receive 10 to 20 orders for REPORT #1 within
two weeks, continue advertising until you do.
 * Then, a couple of weeks later you should receive at least
100 orders for REPORT #2. If you don't, continue advertising
until you do.
 * Once you have received 100 or more orders for REPORT #2,
YOU CAN RELAX, because the system is already working for you,
and the cash will continue to roll in!

THIS IS IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER:
Every time your name is moved down on the list, you are placed
in front of a DIFFERENT report. You can KEEP TRACK of your
PROGRESS by watching which report people are ordering from you
 If you want to generate more income, send another batch of
e-mails and start the whole process again! There is no limit
to the income you will generate from this business!

NOTE:
If you need help with starting a business, registering a
business name, how income tax is handled, etc., contact your
local office of the Small Business Administrations (a Federal
agency) for free help and answer to questions. Also, the
Internal Revenue Service offers free help via telephone and
free seminars about business taxes.



******* T E S T I M O N I A L S *******

______________________________________________


This program does work, but you must follow it EXACTLY!
Especially the rule of not trying to place your name in a
different position, it won't work and you'll lose a lot of
potential income. I'm living proof that it works. It really is
a great opportunity to make relatively easy money, with little
cost to you. If you do choose to participate, follow the
program exactly, and you'll be on your way to financial
security.

Sean McLaughlin, Jackson, MS
______________________________________________


My name is Frank. My wife, Doris, and I live in Bel-Air, MD.
I am a cost accountant with a major U.S. Corporation and I
make pretty good money. When I received the program I grumbled
to Doris about receiving "junk mail." I made fun of the whole
thing, spouting my knowledge of the population and percentages
involved. I "knew" it wouldn't work. Doris totally ignored my
supposed intelligence and jumped in with both feet. I made
merciless fun of her, and was ready to lay the old "I told you
so" on her when the thing didn't work ... well, the laugh was
on me! Within two weeks she had received over 50 responses.
Within 45 days she had received over $147,200 in $5 bills! I
was shocked! I was sure that I had it all figured and that it
wouldn't work. I AM a believer now. I have joined Doris in her
"hobby." I did have seven more years until retirement, but I
think of the "rat race" and it's not for me. We owe it all to
MLM.

Frank T., Bel-Air, MD
______________________________________________


The main reason for this letter is to convince you that this
system is honest, lawful, extremely profitable, and is a way
to get a large amount of money in a short time. I was
approached several times before I checked this out. I joined
just to see what one could expect in return for the minimal
effort and money required. To my astonishment, I received
$36,470.00 in the first 14 weeks, with money still coming in.

Sincerely yours, Phillip A. Brown, Esq.
______________________________________________


Not being the gambling type, it took me several weeks to make
up my mind to participate in this plan. But conservative that
I am, I decided that the initial investment was so little that
there was just no way that I wouldn't get enough orders to at
least get my money back. Boy, was I surprised when I found my
medium-size post office box crammed with orders! For awhile,
it got so overloaded that I had to start picking up my mail at
the window. I'll make more money this year than any 10 years
of my life before. The nice thing about this deal is that it
doesn't matter where in the U.S. the people live. There simply
 isn't a better investment with a faster return.

Mary Rockland, Lansing, MI
______________________________________________


I had received this program before. I deleted it, but later I
wondered if I shouldn't have given it a try. Of course, I had
no idea who to contact to get another copy, so I had to wait
until I was e-mailed another program ... 11 months passed then
it came ... I didn't delete this one! ... I made more than
$41,000 on the first try!!

D. Wilburn, Muncie, IN
______________________________________________


This is my third time to participate in this plan. We have
quit our jobs, and will soon buy a home on the beach and live
off the interest on our money. The only way on earth that this
plan will work for you is if you do it. For your sake, and for
your family's sake don't pass up this golden opportunity. Good
luck and happy spending!

Charles Fairchild, Spokane, WA
______________________________________________


ORDER YOUR REPORTS TODAY AND GET STARTED ON YOUR ROAD TO
FINANCIAL FREEDOM!!!


If you are not interested, we apologize for the intrusion.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Interstate 95 
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 08:19:55 +0800
To: 
Subject: Re: Lack of net access blows:
Message-ID: <19980601001615.23933.qmail@nym.alias.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Thu, 28 May 1998, Nalus Optic wrote:

> 
> Cyberpunks,
> 	
> 	Que pasa?  My name is D and I am new to the list...I will most
> likely just be lurking for a while, till I get a visit from the Duel
> Pentium II 266, 128megs of RAM, running Linux on one PII and Win98 on the
> Other Fariy...She should be along by the end of the summer...

You mean one machine with dual processors? You can't run two operating
systems concurrently on an SMP machine. You can install two operating
systems and choose which one to run, of course. 

> 	Anywhoo, the point of the subject is that at this point and time
> I don't have net access so I was hopeing someone out there would send me
> the FAQ that is talked of in the welcome message.  It can be found at:
> 
> 	anonymous ftp to rtfm.mit.edu:pub/usenet-by-group/sci.crypt
> 
> 	At least I think that is where it is at...
> 
> 	I thank who ever is nice enough to send it to me...Also, maybe
> post a message to me as soon as you send it...That way I don't end up
> with like all of you sending it and Juno kicking my ass again for
> flooding there box.

This is complicated by the fact that there are several FAQs in that
directory. One, combined, is 100K. Juno has a message limit of around 64K,
meaning that the FAQ would have to be split, and I don't know what the
upper limit is on the size of a mailspool at Juno. 

My suggestion is to sneak into a public university computer lab, sit down
at a machine then FTP it and put it on a floppy. Most of the people in
these labs don't ask questions because getting carded tends to really tick
the students off. If they do, say you left your ID card in your car, that
you're very sorry, that you usually don't get asked for it when you walk
in, that you're taking  
class, that you only need about 5 minutes of time, and that you'll
remember it next time. 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 03:59:22 +0800
To: Sprokkit Amhal 
Subject: Re: anonymous mailboxes
In-Reply-To: <19980604193606.27765.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980607021342.008b1370@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>On Thu, 4 Jun 1998, Sprokkit Amhal wrote:
>> anonymous email boxes, whereby a user can receive email and even a 
>> traffic analysis attacker is unable to glean information about who 
>> received what when.  I forget exactly what ve called vis method...

One way to do pseudonymous email boxes is to use a web-based
mailbox server such as hotmail and pick up the mail through
anonymizers or onion routers.  Obviously you need SSL for the
anonymizer connections, and for the mailbox connection as well,
and the name of the mailbox needs to be in the encrypted portion
of the SSL requests rather than in the sniffable URL parts.
The main threat is eavesdroppers watching the anonymizers
over a period of time, picking up patterns that may not show
during a single mail pickup.  So you need enough anonymizers out there, 
or enough cover traffic on a smaller number of anonymizers, 
but it should basically be doable.

It also helps if you can send mail to the mailer using the web,
with SSL and chains of anonymizers to do it, to protect the sender,
but anonymous remailers can also solve that problem.
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 02:33:19 +0800
To: John Young 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 8:06 AM -0700 6/14/98, John Young wrote:

>Not all Feds and phreakers agree that pedophobic Feds
>and teeny-cute phreaks help society, although the pedophilic
>Agency allegedly abusing the adorable phreaker for its
>come-on entrapment had "no comment" to its online
>childlove racketeering and profiteering, sort of like the
>NYT's art spiegel comic today.

I was scanning the dial on my shortwave radio recently and landed on Radio
Havana. I was thinking about how in many countries (presumably including
Cuba)  it's a thought crime to tune in to banned broadcasts.

And we in the West unctuously decry this.

But are we all that different?

Suppose "Radio Pedophilia" started broadcasting on 6223 KHz. Fill in the
details on program content, etc.

By any reading of the various child pornography laws in the U.S. merely
_listening_ to such a broadcast would be a felony. Of this this there can
be no doubt.

Were such a station to exist (which it does not), I would expect FCC and
FBI, with NSA SIGINT assistance, would use technical means to isolate who
was tuned to this station and then bust in the doors.

The only difference with the Sovs and Cubans and Berkeleyites would be the
reasons the broadcasts were illegal to listen to.

--Tim May

"The tree of liberty must be watered periodically with the blood of
tyrants...."
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist              | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Lucky Green 
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 08:19:11 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: #cypherpunks open
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980621170237.00942410@netcom4.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



#cypherpunks is open on EFnet.



-- Lucky Green  PGP encrypted mail preferred

   "I do believe that where there is a choice only between cowardice and
    violence, I would advise violence." Mahatma Gandhi




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Geoffrey C. Grabow" 
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 01:17:17 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Finally... a One-Time-Pad implementation that works!!!
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

TriStrata has announced that is has a product that provides OTP without the
pad distribution problem.  The product also has a unique key-recovery
system.  Check out:


http://www.tristrata.com

for details.


****************************************************************************
*************
PGP 5.5.3 Fingerprint: 15B3 DDC1 93BB 4BDF  4DFD 1B27 12A1 E0C4
****************************************************************************
*************


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.5.3i for non-commercial use 

iQEVAwUBNZVo5dc2wHb8nZI1AQFqngf/bCJVbMQX/5sYb181CLONmqWjPzhQ66Ef
HoyPqxRzEyq4FSWnIuQODH/YTeyyQROUqCZGhC19v8PCiZpI1ynSvn4i+Zcjv9I0
OZBThzKayNoMne7TkNr49Ah9BwDK6XuwS9bns1xM65zfKLpvKP2gboWkADD52K4w
eUuJx/cTaR7PgdO/q6nrVRNq1jlaJsFBKGt2q5E1S12ZK1nA+mpKAS95XMgr2IMx
5/wJ+jsOIUTn2gWR64nhluOgmcACeIVsiRlsGqfUdL8gJHAl0gaQ7E1+HSOBx60K
Ur5x5MzQKBKlWcoDaEXB1AsICW2enwdGVOxPBklq1CbcQxFXdBj1DQ==
=vZmi
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: one4evil@juno.com (Nalus Optic)
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 12:18:08 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: I need a compiler!
Message-ID: <19980601.031903.11638.0.one4evil@juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Cypherpunks,
	
	Tis I, D, again...I just have one other question...Could some of
you tell me what C compilers you use...Also, could you just tell me every
program you would have that has anything to do with crypto if you had the
cash?  I guess one would need a C compiler, a hex editer maybe, are there
any crypto programs that are sort of like templates, where you set the
paramiters and the program compiles the encryption for you...Pipe dream I
am sure...

	That is about it...

			D.

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 21:30:13 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: printed materials exports
Message-ID: <199806010430.GAA16099@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



"A printed book or other printed material setting
forth encryption source code is not itself subject
to the EAR...." 

        





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: one4evil@juno.com (Nalus Optic)
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 16:17:09 -0700 (PDT)
To: J-Dog@Elitehackers.org
Subject: Re: I need a compiler!
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <19980601.071648.10254.1.one4evil@juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


J-Dog

>who says I am socalled "elite"?

Gee, your 'handle' is J-Dog...And your sending your mail through
EliteHackers.org...Very original...I think have been to your web site
once or twice...The EliteHackers.org that is...

>WOW.. A dual PII 266... then you will really be elite... because you
>know.. if you have a fast machine, you don't ahve to know shit.. you can
>just  fake it.. because your machine will cover up for you..... fuqin
>moron...

First...I am not a hacker and don't pretend to be...I phreak a little and
like phones and shit...I subscribe to Telecom Digest and just like to
play with phones...I like to blow shit up for fun so you could say I am a
pyro...I got five bitches on my dick so you could call me a pimp...But I
never said I was a hacker...I just like to know about how shit
works...And in order to exploit any system, for fun or money or super
3l33t props, you gots to know the system...I want to put linux on my
system because linux does have bugs and quirks and you have to know how
to do more than click a mouse button for the shit to work.

>bwhahahhaha....if you can not detect the sarcasm in here, then damn, you
>are a bigger idiot than I thought..... geez man..

Ya, sure...Sarcasm...You laugh at me but dude...William is to busy with
Netscape trying to dick him up the ass for me to call him again...

>> And you know this...MAN!  I am wanting to write my own supper
program...I
>> want to take all the good h/p/v/c apps out there and make a nice point
> >and click interface for them all...one in linux and one in win (
...fuck
>> the mac people... ) Put it all on a CD and send free copies to all the
>> cool hackers out there...Sort of a library O' chaos...Of coarse, I
would
>> not send one to just anyone...r00t would get a copy...I would send
Eric B
>> one just for kicks...Then I would send one to Death Vegi and the rest
of
>> the cDc...They got the cool philes....Anywhoo...Let me know who bill
is.
>Good Yogi, and while your att it, stop world Hunger, Racism, and poverty
>with your uberhacker program...

Again, you laugh at me for sarcasm....

But back to the real problem...yes, gcc would be ideal...How ever...I am
not running Linux as of yet...so do you or any of you know any OTHER
WINDOWS BASED COMPILERS that are worth a shit...I know it is a stretch
but god...

And J-Dog, what is up with the fucked up lingo...This ain't the movies...



_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: one4evil@juno.com (Nalus Optic)
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 17:19:45 -0700 (PDT)
To: J-Dog@Elitehackers.org
Subject: Re: I need a compiler!
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <19980601.081903.10230.0.one4evil@juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Ok, this is starting to get really odd.  I am not a hacker...I DO NOT
want to make some supper program...IT WAS A CRACK BASED ON WHAT YOU SAID
ABOUT WIDOZE CODE!!!  I don't know shit about hacking other than how to
maybe use a cheese scanner like 'Phonetag' (which I have set up at school
so that I don't get busted useing it at home.) I mean what is the
argument here? 
Also, you keep putting things in here like:

> uberl33t
> k-rad	
> /<-rad

Well, what the hell is up with that...I don't talk like that...Do you
talk like that?  Do you walk up to your local dealer and say you want
some K-rad KB?  No!  You just say you want a fat once of KB!  You don't
fuck around.

>Not running linux as of yet? hehe so when are you gong to do a search
for
>linux.exe and start to run it?.. as soon as your superkool P2 266 gets
>here... wowwie... I am impressed...... Hey DK.. pass me another beer...

Well, I have no net access...Boy that's 3L33T...and when I tried last
time I had access, I kept having trouble makeing the boot disk...Maybe
you can explane it to me...You do know stuff about linux and for that I
ask a question...The page I was trying to get it from said that I needed
to save some program ( this has been like eight months ago ) and then put
the program, which was 1.44 mb, onto a floppy then boot your computer off
the floppy...I put in a brand new, unnamed formated disk and it said that
there was not enough disk space...I dont' have a damn clue as to why it
would not work...Also, with my thirst for info, I am going to get the QUE
linux book that comes with Linux 3.0.8 (?) slackware, redhat, a disk of
misc. utilitys and a disk of net utilitys...
I don't know why we are bitching at each other...You hack, I don't, you
use jargon, I don't, I can spell and type, you can't...Where is the
problem?  Anyone back me up on this?
I really don't like to fight with people I don't know...So what does the
J stand for?  Sort of ironic, my initals are JD, Jordan David...Fucked
up, O my brothers...


		D.

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: one4evil@juno.com (Nalus Optic)
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 18:36:12 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <19980601.093541.11502.0.one4evil@juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Ok, I was just going through Phrack 51again and found this...I don't know
if you people care or are seeing it for the 51 time, but if you want the
whole thing, e-mail me or just go do a search for Phrack and look at
there archives...There is a lot more to the artical, but this little bit
lets you know what it is about.
		
			D.



---[  Phrack Magazine   Volume 7, Issue 51 September 01, 1997, article 13
of 17


-------------------------[  Monoalphabetic Cryptanalysis (Cyphers, Part
One)


--------[  Jeff Thompson aka 'Mythrandir' 



Written for Phrack and completed on Sunday, August 31st, 1997.


---------

First a quick hello to all of those I met at DefCon this year.  It was 
incredible fun to finally put faces to many of the people I have been
talking 
with for some time.  It was truly was a treat to meet so many others who
are 
alive with the spirit of discovery.  

----------


This is the first in a series of articles on Cryptology that I am
writing.  
The goals of these articles will be to attempt to convey some of the
excitement
and fun of cyphers.  A topic of much discussion in regards to
cryptography 
currently, is about computer based cyphers such as DES, RSA, and the PGP 
implementation.  I will not be discussing these.  Rather, these articles
will 
cover what I will term classical cryptology.  Or cryptology as it existed

before fast number crunching machines came into existance.  These are the
sorts
of cyphers which interested cryptographers throughout time and continue
to be 
found even to this very day.  Even today, companies are producing
software 
whose encryption methods are attackable.  You will find these commonly
among 
password protection schemes for software programs.  Through the course of
these
articles I will explain in practical terms several common cypher types
and 
various implementations of them as well as cryptanalytic techniques for 
breaking these cyphers.

Creating cyphers is fun and all, but the real excitement and often times
tedium
is found in Cryptanalysis.  Many of the ideas presented in these articles
will 
based on three sources.  The following two books: The Codebreakers by
David 
Kahn (ISBN: 0-684-83130-9) and Decrypted Secrets by F.L. Bauer 
(ISBN: 3-540-60418-9).  Both authors have put together wonderful books
which 
both cover the history and methods of Cryptology.  Do yourself and the
authors 
a favor and purchase these books.  You will be very pleased with the lot.
 
Finally, a miniscule amount of these articles will be written based on my
own 
personal experience.  

The fun is in the journey and I welcome you on what is certain to be an 
interesting trip.  Please feel free to raise questions, engage me in 
discussions, correct me, or simply offer suggestions at
jwthomp@cu-online.com.
Please be patient with me as I am traveling extensively currently, and
may be 
away from the computer at length occasionally.  

Out the door and into the wild...


--Monoalphabetic Cyphers

Monoalphabetic cyphers are often currently found in simple cryptograms in
books
and magazines.  These are just simple substitution cyphers.  This does
not 
mean that they are always simple for the beginning amateur to solve.

Three common monoalphabetic cyphers which are used are substitution,
cyclical, 
and keyed cyphers.


-Substitution Cyphers 

By taking an alphabet and replacing each letter with another letter in a 
unique fashion you create a simple monoalphabetic cypher.  

Plaintext Alphabet	A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X
Y Z
Cypher Alphabet		Z I K M O Q S U W Y A C E B D F H J L N P
R T V X G


Plaintext Message

The blue cow will rise during the second moon from the west field.

Cyphertext Message

nuo icpo kdt twcc jwlo mpjwbs nuo lokdbm eddb qjde nuo toln qwocm.


-Cyclical Cyphers

By taking an alphabet and aligning it with a rotated alphabet you get a 
cyclical cypher.  For example:

Plaintext Alphabet	A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X
Y Z
Cypher Alphabet		N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z A B C D E F G H
I J K L M


Indeed, you may recognize this cypher as a ROT13 which is commonly used
on 
news groups to obscure messages.


-Keyed Cypher

Another way to create a monoalphabetic cypher is to choose a keyword or
phrase 
as the beginning of the cypher alphabet. Usually, only the unique letters
from 
the phrase are used in order to make sure the plaintext to cyphertext
behaves 
in a one to one fashion.

For example:

Plaintext Alphabet:	A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W
X Y Z
Cypher Alphabet		L E T O S H D G F W A R B C I J K M N P Q
U V X Y Z

The passphrase in this cypher is "Let loose the dogs of war"  The
advantage of 
such a system is that the encryption method is easy to remember.  Also, a

method of key change can be created without ever having to distribute the
keys.
For example, one could use the 4 words at a time of some piece of
literature.  
Every message could use the next four words.  Indeed, this change could
occur 
more frequently, but that is a subject for another article. 



_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: one4evil@juno.com (Nalus Optic)
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 18:58:38 -0700 (PDT)
To: pooh@rboc.net
Subject: Re: I need a compiler!
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <19980601.095731.12158.0.one4evil@juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Mon, 01 Jun 1998 21:37:58 -0400 "Robert A. Costner" 
writes:
>People are making fun of you for the following reasons:
>
> * The 'C' compiler comes with the operating system

What OS?

> * Your email address is well... you look at it :)

I am a satanist, sorry...

> * Most of the crypto programs are GPL, which is not freeware, but 
>   you probably would not know the difference.  (You don't need cash)

I don't care if I have to pay...I was just asking for everyone's oppinion

> * You sound like you are under 25

17...

> * You use vulgarities (Juno kicking my ass, net access blows)

And always will...Sorry, nothing gets the point across like a good
vulgarity

> * You can't spell.  OK w/o the other stuff.

I know I can't spell...But I am doing better than J-Dog, what other
stuff?

> * Your dual PII-266 that you need, seems overblown to those running
>   386-25Mhz, or even 10Mhz systems.

Hey, at least I didn't say I wanted my oun cray or a duel 400 :)

> * You don't seem to know what PGP is.

PGP:  Pretty Good Privicy...Not for export, puplic encryption, you
puplish your key then people can send you encrypted files...I think...

>Try reading the list for a month before you make your next message.  
>It
>might work better.  Or just get PGP and learn how to use it without 
>asking
>the list.  Besides, my domain is more elite than the other guy's 
>hackerorg
>domain.

I have been on for about a week...My welcome message got no replys, all I
seam to get are political messages, I have seen one question about
crypto, and the reply was half joke...I DO NOT HAVE NET ACCESS!  how do I
get pgp with out net access...I just wanted to know what everyone else
was useing...What is up with J-Dog jumping my shit (sorry) with this
stuff about, "Then again, if I was to say linux to you, you would prolly
run in ph33r"?  I know linux, I want linux, you have read the other posts
so I won't go into it...I guess i am just on the wrong list...I sent out
a post befor about are there any better 'newbie' lists on crypto but got
no responce...oh well.

		D.

p.s, I like Juno... :(


_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 08:38:44 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: RSA, NAI Settle Suit
Message-ID: <199806011538.LAA11092@camel8.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


PR Newswire, June 1, 1998 [Excerpt]:

RSA Data Security and Network Associates Announce Settlement of Lawsuit; 
Network Associates Licenses RSA Crypto-security Software

    Redwood City and Santa Clara, Calif., June 1 -- RSA Data Security, 
Inc. and Network Associates  today announced that the companies have 
settled patent infringement and copyright lawsuits brought by RSA 
against Network Associates and its subsidiaries PGP, Inc., and Trusted
Information Systems (TIS).  In addition, Network Associates entered 
into a new royalty-bearing license for RSA's crypto-security engines, 
providing Network Associates with rights to include RSA components 
within a number of Network Associates, PGP, and TIS products.

    Under the terms of the settlement agreement, Network Associates 
will draw on a previously established escrow set at the time of the 
PGP acquisition to pay RSA an undisclosed sum to settle past issues and 
for legal fees.  As a result of today's settlement agreement, three 
federal actions and a court-ordered arbitration related to the dispute 
have been resolved.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Sunder 
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 09:21:55 -0700 (PDT)
To: Nobuki Nakatuji 
Subject: Re: When write high-speed implementation,
In-Reply-To: <19980530042752.25126.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3572D417.5145276A@brainlink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


It's actually expressed as a set of complex numbers with lots of data in the
imaginary side.  These are displayed with fixed point decimals (or static
point decimals) expressing a width and height for the rectangle hence the term
S-Box.  Since DES works on 64 bit blocks using a 56 bit key, you can use either
56 decimal places, or 64 for more accuracy, but far less speed.

For purposes of optimization to extreme high speed, you should take your key
and sort it (be sure to use Quick Sort here, and not bubble sort!), that is put
all the 1 bits to the right, all the 0 bits to the left, and the naughty bits
in your head.  Then take the result and express it as 2^X-1, and extract X. 
Once you have X, repeat the process until X=2.

With me so far?  Good, now you have to extract the naughty bits from your mind,
and let N express them.  Your S boxes are now comprised of X+Ni which you can
simply express as 2+Ni.  Now, if you recall, Ni is the symbol for nickel, which
is what this algorithm is worth $2.05 payable in Monopoly dollars.  If you've
been following the news, you'll know that Microsoft is a monopoly and therefore
weighs the same as a duck.  Since ducks float, and wood also floats, ducks must
weigh the same as wood, and therefore are witches.  Multiply this by the flight
speed of an unladen African swallow, and divide it by the flight speed of a
laden european swallow, then add your favorite color, and substract your name.

Okay, so that's the high-speed write implementation, don't forget that the high
speed read implementation is the opposite of the write, so reverse the sort and
this time, make sure you use random sort. (That is toss the bits up randomly,
and if they wind up in the order you wanted, you're done, otherwise keep
tossing.)  And don't forget that tossed bits require Ranch dressing or Italian,
with onion crutons, but never Russian (because the USSR never used DES.)

Now that we've told you the secret of high speed DES, your assignment is to
come back in a week with source code to the above written in SNOBOL which can
run on CP/M 6502 machines.  Of course you'll need to roll your own CP/M 6502 OS
as well as a SNOBOL compiler and assembler, but heck, that's easy.  Oh, one
catch, make sure your CP/M runs on all C64 and Apple II's, or you can't
properly consider it a portable DES implementation.

Good luck.

[ Snicker, snicker, ROTFLMAO!  I wonder how long it will take him to figgure
out that he's being trolled... heh... ]

Nobuki Nakatuji wrote:
> 
> When write high-speed implementation,
> Is S-box written by hexadecimal or
> written by decimal?
> Thanks.

-- 

=====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos==============
.+.^.+.|  Ray Arachelian    |Prying open my 3rd eye.  So good to see |./|\.
..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were      |/\|/\
<--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run  |\/|\/
../|\..| "A toast to Odin,  |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/.
.+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were....            |.....
======================= http://www.sundernet.com ==========================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 10:33:08 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Counterpane Cracks MS's PPTP
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


http://www.counterpane.com/pptp.html


Thanks to GM




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: J-Dog 
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 13:35:07 -0700 (PDT)
To: Nalus Optic 
Subject: Re: I need a compiler!
In-Reply-To: <19980601.031903.11638.0.one4evil@juno.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


gee, gcc seems to always do teh trick for me when I want to compile some
C.....
Then again, if I was to say linux to you, you would prolly run in ph33r
... so, why don't you call bill up and ask him to send you a free version
of Visual C++.... so that you too can crank out useless winblowz code...
Latez
JD
On Mon, 1 Jun 1998, Nalus Optic wrote:

> Cypherpunks,
> 	
> 	Tis I, D, again...I just have one other question...Could some of
> you tell me what C compilers you use...Also, could you just tell me every
> program you would have that has anything to do with crypto if you had the
> cash?  I guess one would need a C compiler, a hex editer maybe, are there
> any crypto programs that are sort of like templates, where you set the
> paramiters and the program compiles the encryption for you...Pipe dream I
> am sure...
> 
> 	That is about it...
> 
> 			D.
> 
> _____________________________________________________________________
> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
> Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
> 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 11:26:58 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Foundation for Information Policy Research
Message-ID: <199806011826.OAA15687@camel14.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Source: http://www.ntk.net/fipr/

Subject: URGENT: press release - FIPR
Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 16:52:16 +0100
From: Ross Anderson 


    Title: New Independent Research Foundation Backed by Microsoft

                Embargoed until 11.00 Friday 29th May

Too often, policy issues relating to information technology are
seperately debated by two distinct grouups: technology experts and
those focused on social concerns.  Policy makers face the challenge of
reconciling the seperate debates in areas where technology is often
evolving very quickly. A new research foundation aims to provide clear
advice that spans this gap and is independent of vested interests.

The Foundation for Information Policy Research will fund research into
how information technology affects society. It is launched at a press
conference on Friday 29th May at 11.00 am. (1)

Microsoft has contributed a six-figure sum to cover the launch costs.
Internet service providers Poptel and Demon are also supporting the
Foundation. Its independence will be guaranteed, however, by a board
of trustees. (2) In the medium term it will be supported by
subscriptions from a range of firms in commerce and industry.

The goal of the Foundation is to promote research and understanding of
the effects, and the likely future effects, of IT on society. Its
areas of investigation include: (3)

 * the regulation of electronic commerce;
 * consumer protection;
 * data protection and privacy;
 * copyright;
 * law enforcement;
 * evidence and archiving;
 * electronic interaction between government, businesses and individuals;
 * the extent to which various information technologies discriminate
   against the less advantaged members of society; and
 * the new risks that computer and communication systems pose to
   life, health and economic well-being

The Foundation will also provide a valuable resource for the press as
it will be able to put journalists in touch with a wide range of
experts who can explain IT issues as they arise.

Contact: Caspar Bowden (Director of the Foundation) 0171 837 8706
         Ross Anderson (Chair of the Foundation)    01223 334733

QUOTES

The Director of the Foundation, Caspar Bowden, said: ``The IT policies
(and failures) which the current government inherited, and the
decisions which will be made by them in the future, will have
far-reaching effects on who society's winners and losers will be.  We
have a duty to prevent technological innovation and development taking
place at the expense of the poor, the old, the sick and the disabled.
We believe that so long as we understand the social and policy
implications of new technical innovations, we can make IT into a means
to facilitate social inclusion. The Foundation's mission will be to
achieve and to spread that understanding.''

The Managing Director of Microsoft UK, David Svendsen, said: ``It's
important that we contribute to a broad and informed public discussion
on these information society issues.''

The Chair of the Foundation, Ross Anderson of Cambridge University,
said: ``We welcome this new source of funding for IT related
research. An increase in the diversity of funding sources is almost
always a good thing, and the Foundation will be particularly valuable
as much of the available IT funding is directed to very short-term and
narrowly technical agendas.''

NOTES

(1) The press conference is at the "Scrambling for Safety"
conference, at the Bloomsbury Theatre, University College, London.
URL: 

(2) The Foundation's Director and full-time CEO, Caspar Bowden, has
for the last three years been running Qualia, a consultancy business
specialising in internet implementations. Before that he was a
financial strategist with Goldman Sachs. He also researched IT and
communications issues for Scientists for Labour. 

Its chair, Ross Anderson, is a faculty member at Cambridge University
Computer Laboratory and has done extensive research on topics related
to electronic commerce.

BACKGROUND

The "Millennium Bug" - the problem that many computers cannot deal

correctly with the date roll-over from 1999 to 2000 - threatens to
cause havoc with many systems and has been declared a national
emergency by the Prime Minister.

Another problem that has worried policymakers and concerned citizens
is that new developments in IT may discriminate against the less well
off members of society.  For example, the current mechanisms for
electronic commerce depend on consumers using their credit cards to
order goods and services over the net. They often get a big discount
for buying this way; but people without credit cards may lose out.

The first task that the Foundation has set itself is to examine the
underpinnings of electronic commerce. The European Commission has
recently published a draft Directive on this subject and will launch a
period of public consultation at the same conference at which the
Foundation itself will be launched. (The draft directive is at
[missing].)

Other topics which the Foundation plans to investigate include:

* the maintenance of public records in electronic form. We do not
 fully understand how to ensure that word processor files and other
 electronic documents created today can be safely stored for many
 years, and reliably made available in the future. This affects not
 just the new Freedom of Information Act, but also the work of future
 librarians and historians.

* the development of copyright law. There are some industry proposals
 which would restrict the ability of libraries to lend out digital
 works. Will this mean the end of the public library, as more and more
 books, videos and other material become digital? What are the
 implications for schools and universities? What are the implications
 for the public, if all major sports events in future are pay-per-view?
 Are these developments inevitable, or is there something we can do
 about them?

* the introduction of electronic communication between the citizen and
 the government has the potential to cut queues and the frustration of
 dealing with people on the phone. However, are these changes
 intrinsically more likely to favour the articulate, and to bring the
 most benefit to well-off people with their own computers? What
 technical developments are reasonably possible to ensure that all
 citizens get a fair deal?

* the previous government's proposal for a "personal signature card"
 that would give access to all government services had a distinct
 flavour of an ID card. Are such developments necessary, or can we
 find workable alternatives?

* the police are concerned about the spread of prepaid mobile phones,
 which are increasingly used by stalkers and extortionists. However, if
 they are banned, then how would people without credit cards obtain a
 mobile phone service?

* there have been many disputes in the past over "phantom withdrawals"
 from bank cash machines, and banks have defended themselves by
 claiming that their computers cannot be wrong. How can this approach
 work when millions of merchants are selling services through a wide
 variety of computer systems? What will consumer rights amount to in
 the information age?

* the failure of government computer systems - whether spectacular
 failure due to the millennium bug, or the continuing sporadic
 failures in the NHS - does most harm to pensioners, the disabled,
 single mothers, the unemployed and people on NHS waiting lists (who
 are typically elderly, female and working class). How can we
 encourage best engineering practice in the public sector?

- - - ends - - 

Thanks to Danny O'Brien, UK Crypto

Story: http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/12624.html

Web site under construction: http://www.fipr.org




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSqncrs@aol.com
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 12:09:06 -0700 (PDT)
To: Cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Nobody comes up with a great point!
Message-ID: <9082dcf2.3572fc2e@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Unfortunately, he didn't seem to want to share it with the Cypherpunks.

Nobody - << >> Of course, I do admit, that I do speak from a left POV.

Which one? >>

Mine.


<< There are so many left POVs! >>

Correctamundo!  We aren't a bunch of brain-washed DittoHeads like the right
is.  :-)

Stan




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Angelos D. Keromytis" 
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 12:58:59 -0700 (PDT)
To: coderpunks@toad.com
Subject: KeyNote v0.1 Release Announcement
Message-ID: <199806011956.PAA12769@adk.gr>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

To: coderpunks@toad.com
Subject: KeyNote v0.1 Release Announcement
Cc: cypherpunks@toad.com
Date: 06/01/98, 15:56:45


KeyNote is a trust-management system, designed on the same principles
as PolicyMaker, but simpler and better-defined. This is the first
public release, and although the code has been tested, it is by no
means guaranteed bug-free (but then, what is). That said, you can get
a copy from

	   http://www.cis.upenn.edu/~angelos/keynote-0.1.tar.gz

 -Angelos

PS. From the README file:

There should be a real README file here, but in the meantime read
draft-angelos-spki-keynote-01.txt for the spec of KeyNote.

There's much to be done yet to improve the user interface(s). Signature      
verification is (deliberately) missing from this release, but the next one
will have it. The hooks are obvious in the code (search for XXX in
parse_assertion.c).

The makefile creates the libkeynote.a library which can be linked with other
applications. The program keynote-verify can be used to verify a request,
given a set of assertions and an environment. There will be a man page
in the next release both for the library and the program, along with some
sort of graphical UI to make assertion generation (including signing) easier.

For any questions, comments, bug reports, praise, or anything else you have
in mind, contact me at angelos@dsl.cis.upenn.edu

Angelos D. Keromytis
May 31 1998

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 14:38:44 -0700 (PDT)
To: John Young 
Subject: Re: Counterpane Cracks MS's PPTP
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199806012143.QAA018.23@geiger.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In , on 06/01/98 
   at 12:23 PM, John Young  said:


>http://www.counterpane.com/pptp.html

>Thanks to GM


 when will people learn?

Microsoft is *incapable* and *unwilling* to provide even nominal security
for it's platforms.

Several problems that exist:

Technical Ability -- Microsoft is seriously lacking in the technical
know-how when it comes to cryptology and data security.

Corporate Mentality -- Microsoft does not have the mentality needed to
produce secure products. This is a company that has historically shipped
poorly designed, bug filled products out the door. Bugs are not seen as a
problem but as an opportunity to sell upgrades. While this has done them
well in selling their overpriced GameBoys (the sheeple never cease to
disappoint me) it is *not* the environment for developing secure products.


Previous security foobars by M$:

NT C2 <---- LOL!!!

Active X <---- Who was the brain child that though *that* up?

Auto-Launch attached binaries in E-Mail <-- Can we say GoodTimes?

Crypto-API <--- Right I would *trust* that. Honest. :)

TCP/IP Stack <--- Too many flaws to list.


Why would anyone trust these simpletons to produce any type of security
product?


- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgp.html
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: I love running Windows! NOT!

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: J-Dog 
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 16:57:27 -0700 (PDT)
To: Nalus Optic 
Subject: Re: I need a compiler!
In-Reply-To: <19980601.071648.10254.1.one4evil@juno.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


> 
> >WOW.. A dual PII 266... then you will really be elite... because you
> >know.. if you have a fast machine, you don't ahve to know shit.. you can
> >just  fake it.. because your machine will cover up for you..... fuqin
> >moron...
> 
> First...I am not a hacker and don't pretend to be...I phreak a little and
> like phones and shit...I subscribe to Telecom Digest and just like to
> play with phones...I like to blow shit up for fun so you could say I am a
> pyro...I got five bitches on my dick so you could call me a pimp...But I
> never said I was a hacker...I just like to know about how shit
> works...And in order to exploit any system, for fun or money or super
> 3l33t props, you gots to know the system...I want to put linux on my
> system because linux does have bugs and quirks and you have to know how
> to do more than click a mouse button for the shit to work.
hah.. the fact that you are claiming that you are going to write a
"program" that will combine all the good /h/p/v/c apps out there and
combine them into one is simply ridiculous.. 
what you are claiming is that you are going to write a program that will
have builting crackers, sniffers, DoSes, Tone Generators, Virii creation
utils, box plans...etc. This is absolutely ridiculous...
just for the record, what would you consider the "good /h/p/v/c" apps out
there? the uberl33t winnuke.exe.. or perhaps maybe the k-rad linklooker..
it is ppl like you sho seriously make me wonder where society is headed...

> 
> >bwhahahhaha....if you can not detect the sarcasm in here, then damn, you
> >are a bigger idiot than I thought..... geez man..
> 
> Ya, sure...Sarcasm...You laugh at me but dude...William is to busy with
> Netscape trying to dick him up the ass for me to call him again...
ok hippy.... why don't you sport your /<-rad pvc pants and vinyl shirt and
talk smack about how you are the uberhacker....
I think you have seen Hackers the movie one to many times there acid
burn...

> 
> >> And you know this...MAN!  I am wanting to write my own supper
> program...I
> >> want to take all the good h/p/v/c apps out there and make a nice point
> > >and click interface for them all...one in linux and one in win (
> ...fuck
> >> the mac people... ) Put it all on a CD and send free copies to all the
> >> cool hackers out there...Sort of a library O' chaos...Of coarse, I
> would
> >> not send one to just anyone...r00t would get a copy...I would send
> Eric B
> >> one just for kicks...Then I would send one to Death Vegi and the rest
> of
> >> the cDc...They got the cool philes....Anywhoo...Let me know who bill
> is.
> >Good Yogi, and while your att it, stop world Hunger, Racism, and poverty
> >with your uberhacker program...
> 
> Again, you laugh at me for sarcasm....
hell ya I laugh at you... either you are too big of an idiot to reaalize
that you are being made fun of.. or you are to stupid to care.... at any
rate, kill yourself... you are breating air I might need someday....

> 
> But back to the real problem...yes, gcc would be ideal...How ever...I am
> not running Linux as of yet...so do you or any of you know any OTHER
> WINDOWS BASED COMPILERS that are worth a shit...I know it is a stretch
> but god...
Not running linux as of yet? hehe so when are you gong to do a search for
linux.exe and start to run it?.. as soon as your superkool P2 266 gets
here... wowwie... I am impressed...... Hey DK.. pass me another beer...

> 
> And J-Dog, what is up with the fucked up lingo...This ain't the movies...
fucked up lingo? gee, I am very sorry if your small mind can not make out
my words.. but I can assure you that this is NOT fucked up lingo... go
read some h4x0r Br0s and then tell me about how fuct up my lingo is....

Latez
JD

btw... congrats on your really kool superl33t juno.com account.. you are
r33t now. 
> 
> 
> 
> _____________________________________________________________________
> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
> Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
> 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 15:56:14 -0700 (PDT)
To: Doris Woods 
Subject: Re: Kirtland Air Force Base
In-Reply-To: <35732427.ECA43EB9@idt.net>
Message-ID: <199806012257.RAA019.42@geiger.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In <35732427.ECA43EB9@idt.net>, on 06/01/98 
   at 05:59 PM, Doris Woods  said:

>Hi all,

>bill payne wrote:
>> 
>> Saturday 5/30/98 5:15 PM


>> Masanori, the book Decision to Use the Atomic Bomb by Gar Alperovitz
>> presents fairly good evidence some in US government nuked Hiroshima and
>> Nagasaki merely to impress the Russians.
>> 

>Carroll Quigley said in Tragedy and Hope...  they were worried the war
>would be over with before they got their chance to use it!

Was this before or after they estimated that it would cost upwards of 1
Million lives to take the Japan mainland by conventional forces?

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgp.html
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: I went window shopping...and bought OS/2!

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3a-sha1
Charset: cp850
Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000

iQCVAwUBNXMx849Co1n+aLhhAQEF/QP/Xz/1vWT108GyHjPe77raaL8JQRcfMa7N
fwhcVkQcNMfwMlpEJC3F9eiEk5jpSD5papD3HA8Q7pSDX0vS5L7j7w9d2Xwc1vc/
+uEuZzGUqat5F4P0Iv2/KKPLDHgL/bL+2TkcyyLKkxj0e/IQQWCHIlirDXhY3zz2
TkJqXCgY9Mg=
=a01s
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Doris Woods 
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 14:59:30 -0700 (PDT)
To: bill payne 
Subject: Re: Kirtland Air Force Base
In-Reply-To: <35709AFC.7DD3@nmol.com>
Message-ID: <35732427.ECA43EB9@idt.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hi all,


bill payne wrote:
> 
> Saturday 5/30/98 5:15 PM
> 


> 
> Masanori, the book Decision to Use the Atomic Bomb by Gar Alperovitz
> presents fairly good evidence some in US government nuked Hiroshima and
> Nagasaki merely to impress the Russians.
> 


Carroll Quigley said in Tragedy and Hope...  they were worried the
war would be over with before they got their chance to use it!


Doris




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 23:18:02 -0700 (PDT)
To: masanori fushimi 
Subject: refrigerator magnet
Message-ID: <35734441.38FF@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Monday 6/1/98 6:05 PM

Masanori

I put the refrigerator magnet

          1945 509th COMPOSITE GROUP 1995

           FIRST ATOMIC BOMBARDMENT

             50th ANNIVERSARY

in the mail to you today.

Reason I sent the magnet is to show THAT THERE ARE SOME REALLY-SICK
MINDS [see reverse side of magnet] IN POWER in the US.

Just got off the phone with John Young.

Governments, including Japan, TRY to mess with peoples'
minds.  There is a book on this.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/quicksearch-query/002-2147604-1106833

But I have a solution.  I do not read e-mail.  At this time.

I also believe in what Kahn wrote

   Thursday, March 20, 1980, 09:30 David Kahn addressed Congress,
        the Committee on Government Operations.

        Kahn stated to the committee,

             A final benefit is that refusing  to restrict cryptologic
             studies erects yet another rampart against the chipping
away
             of American liberties.  Is this rampart, again, worth the
             danger to national security?  Yes, because the danger is
not
             as acute as the N.S.A. wishes people to see it.  N.S.A.
             wants people to think that publication of cryptologic
             material would slam shut its window into the Third World
             countries.  In fact such publication has little effect ...
             The national security dangers are not so great as to
             dismantle individual freedom.

             For all of these reasons, then, no limitation should be
             placed on the study of cryptology.  And beyond them all
lies
             something more fundamental, in the end, will probably
             prevent any restrictions anyway.  It is called the First
             Amendment.

             I thank you.

I hope you see that I am using the seventh amendment.

http://www.jya.com/whp052898.htm

And even more adamantly I believe

  For what shall it profit a man if he shall gain the whole world and
lose his own soul.

  Kahn on Codes page 172

Best regards
bill






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 23:23:18 -0700 (PDT)
To: BDGREEN@sandia.gov
Subject: punching the Great FASCIST Satan in the nose
Message-ID: <357352A0.6A81@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Monday 6/1/98 7:16 PM

John Young

The SAND report you posted at http://jya.com/whpfiles.htm was a 
DELIBERATE attempt to send NSA a message.  I had some help
from Sandia classification.

Bill

Subject: 
        refrigerator magnet
  Date: 
        Mon, 01 Jun 1998 18:16:01 -0600
  From: 
        bill payne 
    To: 
        masanori fushimi 
    CC: 
        cypherpunks@toad.com, ukcrypto@maillist.ox.ac.uk


Monday 6/1/98 6:05 PM

Masanori

I put the refrigerator magnet

          1945 509th COMPOSITE GROUP 1995

           FIRST ATOMIC BOMBARDMENT

             50th ANNIVERSARY

in the mail to you today.

Reason I sent the magnet is to show THAT THERE ARE SOME REALLY-SICK
MINDS [see reverse side of magnet] IN POWER in the US.

Just got off the phone with John Young.

Governments, including Japan, TRY to mess with peoples'
minds.  There is a book on this.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/quicksearch-query/002-2147604-1106833

David Felton

But I have a solution.  I do not read e-mail.  At this time.

I also believe in what Kahn wrote

   Thursday, March 20, 1980, 09:30 David Kahn addressed Congress,
        the Committee on Government Operations.

        Kahn stated to the committee,

             A final benefit is that refusing  to restrict cryptologic
             studies erects yet another rampart against the chipping
             away of American liberties.  Is this rampart, again, worth
the
             danger to national security?  Yes, because the danger is
             not as acute as the N.S.A. wishes people to see it.  N.S.A.
             wants people to think that publication of cryptologic
             material would slam shut its window into the Third World
             countries.  In fact such publication has little effect ...
             The national security dangers are not so great as to
             dismantle individual freedom.

             For all of these reasons, then, no limitation should be
             placed on the study of cryptology.  And beyond them all
             lies something more fundamental, in the end, will probably
             prevent any restrictions anyway.  It is called the First
             Amendment.

             I thank you.

I hope you see that I am using the seventh amendment.

http://www.jya.com/whp052898.htm

And even more adamantly I believe

  For what shall it profit a man if he shall gain the whole world and
  lose his own soul.

  Kahn on Codes page 172

Best regards
bill






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 16:38:15 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Echelon Furor
Message-ID: <199806012338.TAA09612@camel14.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


The UK Sunday Times on the Internet had a story yesterday on
the rising Echelon furor in Europe, "Spy Station F83."

   http://www.sunday-times.co.uk (see Focus feature)

If you don't want to register we've mirrored the piece:

   http://jya.com/nsa-f83.htm

It reviews the rapidly-growing NSA operation at Menwith Hill and 
Bad Aibling, with some recent information not covered in earlier 
reports.

Several European pols -- German, French, Italian, et al -- are 
calling for investigations of alleged economic spying by NSA.

NSA denies all, the writers say, except the Agency claims it's the 
best in the world at what it's capable of but not doing.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Xcott Craver 
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 17:42:49 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Holy QPRNF, part II (Re: Counterpane Cracks MS's PPTP)
In-Reply-To: <199806012143.QAA018.23@geiger.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> >http://www.counterpane.com/pptp.html

	This has got to be the scariest crypto-related paper I've 
	ever read.  Detailed therein is just an unnatural amount of
	screwing up for any one company, much less one product.

	How many of us had to explain to a sci.crypt newbie why we can't 
	use the same one-time-pad string or cipher stream repeatedly?  Here
	we have Microsoft re-using RC4 keys in OUTPUT FEEDBACK MODE.  In the 
	same session, fer God's sake, you and the server both use the same
	XOR stream to encrypt?  

	This is not a subtle, excusable boo-boo.  It's not even a crypto
	mistake:  it's a basic inability to comprehend what the exclusive-or
	operation does.

	I gotta admit, my first impression was that Schneier, et al, 
	were engaging in a heapin' helpin' of MS-bashing on their page.
	Having read the paper, however, I'm now convinced that they
	brushed too (po-)lightly over some real howlers.  One might
	get the false impression that these are subtle flaws, rather
	than gaping holes from Hell.

	We gotta convince Bill to fire his crypto people, for the
	good of humanity.  I suggest we get the message across by
	sending MS a bunch of t-shirts reading, "Everything I ever
	needed to know about crypto I learned from the LANMAN hash."

							-Xcott

==-  Xcott Craver -- Caj@niu.edu -- http://www.math.niu.edu/~caj/  -==
"This is a different thing:  it's spontaneous and it's called 'wit.'"
                                                      -The Black Adder




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 16:51:04 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Commerce Echelon
Message-ID: <199806012350.TAA13897@camel14.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


The UK Sunday Times article claims that there is a unit in 
the Department of Commerce that receives NSA Echelon 
interceptions of economic data for massaging and passing 
on to interested US parties. Any information on this unit and 
how it decides who gets which secrets?




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Xcott Craver 
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 18:01:56 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: I need a compiler!
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Mon, 1 Jun 1998, J-Dog wrote:

> at any rate, kill yourself... you are breating air I might need someday...

	Ah, lack of oxygen!  I was going to blame a broken CAPS LOCK key.
	
								-Caj

==-  Xcott Craver -- Caj@niu.edu -- http://www.math.niu.edu/~caj/  -==
"This is a different thing:  it's spontaneous and it's called 'wit.'"
                                                      -The Black Adder
	




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 18:33:48 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Commerce Echelon
In-Reply-To: <199806012350.TAA13897@camel14.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 7:48 PM -0400 on 6/1/98, John Young wrote:


>  Any information on this unit and
> how it decides who gets which secrets?

It helps if you're Chinese or Indonesian...

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga

-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
Philodox: , e$: 
               







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Alan 
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 22:23:25 -0700 (PDT)
To: Chris Wedgwood 
Subject: Re: Counterpane Cracks MS's PPTP
In-Reply-To: <199806012143.QAA018.23@geiger.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980601220343.04443930@ctrl-alt-del.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 03:23 PM 6/2/98 +1200, Chris Wedgwood wrote:
>
>On Mon, Jun 01, 1998 at 04:24:44PM -0500, William H. Geiger III wrote:
>
>> Previous security foobars by M$:
>> 
>> NT C2 <---- LOL!!!
>
>Standard marketroid talk, I think M$ still tout this, but not so loudly
>these days. Last I heard they were trying to get C2 with network
>connectivity, but that was a while ago (2 years?) so they may have given up.
>I'm sure I would have heard if it had.
>
>That said, C2 doesn't necessarily buy you all that much.

Is this not what they claimed when they sold NT to the Air Force?  Judging
by some of the Air Force software I have seen, this frightens me more than
most things.

>> Active X <---- Who was the brain child that though *that* up?
>
>Sure it sucks, it sucks for lots of reasons. But for the average luser it
>still better than plugins so thats why its taken off. And what make
>downloading a plugin and installing that any better? 

You have a little more control over plug-ins.

>> Auto-Launch attached binaries in E-Mail <-- Can we say GoodTimes?
>
>Can anyone confirm that this has indeed been fixed yet?
>
>I should also point out that buffer overflow bugs have been known for some
>time (years?) with various unix mailers and their handling of .mailcap which
>essentially amounts to the same thing.

But those are specific to the client.  Most Unix users know better.

>> Crypto-API <--- Right I would *trust* that. Honest. :)
>
>Does anyone have a list of design and implementation flaws for CAPI? I've
>had discussions with a couple of people about these, but never seen anything
>published.

I know of one, but I cannot release details yet.  (I did not discover it
and i need to wait until the non-beta version of the product is released.)
Besides, I have been told I will be killed if I reveal it before it is time.

>> TCP/IP Stack <--- Too many flaws to list.
>
>Yeah... its crap, but not necessarily that much worse that some of the
>others out there. If someone were keeping score on which stacks help up the
>best against all the attacks of the last two years it probably wouldn't be
>the worst.

A great deal of this blame can be placed on the WinSock spec.  The spec was
quite "loose" in many details of the implementation.  You could be
complient and still not be able to deal with much of the software out
there.  My vote for bad PC stack of the century was the one put out by Sun.
 Not even close to compatible...

>> Why would anyone trust these simpletons to produce any type of security
>> product?
>
>Sure. 95% of the population does.

Sturgeon's law applies to people as well...

>People need to be educated about important issues, and using lots of
>complicated gobbledygook doesn't help. If you, like me, have a loved one
>that isn't terribly interested in computers or encryption, then see if the
>phrase 'modular exponentiation' doesn't kick there eye-glaze-secreting gland
>into over drive.

Most everything involving computers tends to do that.

>I guess this is something Bruce Schneier has done well - a report for
>technical people who will read it, laugh and say they aren't surprised, and
>press releases with LOTS OF BIG LETTERS AND SMALL WORDS for the rest of the
>population including morons that are the media.

You can type it out in clear, short sentences and the media will still
screw it up.  If you have no clue as to what you are writing about, the
accuracy of what you write will suffer.

>I think everyone is waiting for NT5. Multi-user NT is at best an interesting
>concept. I remember at university using (arguably buggy) unix boxen with
>200+ users simultaneously, with relatively few problems, but I'll be really
>surprised if NT could get close to this....

Multi-user NT is available now.  Citrix and NCD both have versions out now.
 (Both are based on NT 3.51.  They would have released a 4.0 product long
ago, but Microsoft wanted the product for themselves.)  The server load
seems to be about 50 users per box.   Depends on what you are running.

>I am so looking forward to NT5, it should prove to be very entertaining and
>perhaps a really good opportunity to educate the public.

Assuming that they can be educated.  Better to offer them a choice.  It is
hard to say "X is bad" unless you have an alternative.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Christopher Turner 
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 21:27:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Tax revolt book
Message-ID: <199806020427.VAA06278@italy.it.earthlink.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


C-punks,

my apologies if this book was discussed on the list back when it first 
came out...
in the course of cleaning up and packing in preparation for our move, I 
came across Bill Branon's first book, _Let Us Prey_. W/out going into any 
detail, the backdrop of the book takes place in present-day America where 
a sort of tax revolt is going on - over 1/3 of the taxpayers filed a Form 
4868 - an automatic extension form - and 22% of those filers failed to 
enclose a check of any kind.

There's a great part where the prez is freaking out because 1/3 of 
Americans are getting a gov't check of some kind and where the hell are 
they going to get the money when over another 1/3 of Americans won't pay 
their taxes.

I highly recommend it.

Take care all, and watch your six,

Chris
---
Ubi dubium ibi libertas
Where there is doubt, there is freedom  -Latin proverb




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSqncrs@aol.com
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 21:19:17 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: I need a compiler!
Message-ID: <8d3fc421.35737c2b@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


In a message dated 6/1/98 7:11:19 PM Central Daylight Time, J-
Dog@Elitehackers.org writes:

<< (1 4 Evil)> Ya, sure...Sarcasm...You laugh at me but dude...William is to
busy with
 > Netscape trying to dick him up the ass for me to call him again...
 ok hippy... >>

Hey, I didn't say that!  Why are you talking to me?

Stan




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSqncrs@aol.com
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 21:25:13 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Counterpane Cracks MS's PPTP
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


In a message dated 6/1/98 10:38:20 PM Central Daylight Time,
chris@cybernet.co.nz writes:

<< > Auto-Launch attached binaries in E-Mail <-- Can we say GoodTimes?
 
 Can anyone confirm that this has indeed been fixed yet? >>

It was my understanding, that the so-called GoodTimes virus was a farce,
apparently aimed at specific commercial spammers.

Stan




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "David E. Smith" 
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 22:17:55 -0700 (PDT)
To: Nalus Optic 
Subject: Re: I need a compiler!
In-Reply-To: <19980601.071648.10254.1.one4evil@juno.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


> But back to the real problem...yes, gcc would be ideal...How ever...I am
> not running Linux as of yet...so do you or any of you know any OTHER
> WINDOWS BASED COMPILERS that are worth a shit...I know it is a stretch
> but god...

um... so, why not get the Win32 port of GCC?

...dave


----- David E. Smith, P O Box 324, Cape Girardeau MO 63702
http://bureau42.base.org/people/dave/ dave@bureau42.ml.org





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Shostack 
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 05:19:38 -0700 (PDT)
To: rah@shipwright.com (Robert Hettinga)
Subject: Re: Commerce Echelon
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199806021218.IAA27678@homeport.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Robert Hettinga wrote:

| >  Any information on this unit and
| > how it decides who gets which secrets?
| 
| It helps if you're Chinese or Indonesian...

I am shocked, shocked, to hear you suggest such a thing about our
government.  They don't care about these people's ethnicity, only
their wallets.

Thus, its helps if you're rich or stinkin' rich.  That it came from
the sweat of the peasants doesn't matter a whit.

Adam


-- 
"It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once."
					               -Hume






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Brad Kemp 
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 06:09:55 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Counterpane Cracks MS's PPTP
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980602090947.0317cc10@pop3.indusriver.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



This is a good paper. It covered almost all of the failures of MS PPTP.  
However, I think it missed a big one.
It is possible to recover all the clear text from a PPTP session,
even if most of the traffic is going in one direction only.
The failure is in MPPE.  When MPPE gets a sequenceing error, it
resets the key.  This causes the cipher stream to be reset.  It is
partially covered in section 5.4 .
Since RC4 is a stream cipher, it generates the same
cipher stream for a given key.  This cipher stream is XORed with the clear
text.
To recover the clear text, an attacker just needs to force a
resyncronization by
sending a packet that has a bogus coherency count.  
If the attacker captures the original stream and the resynchronized stream
a simple XOR of the two streams results in an XOR of the cleartext.
While compression does make it harder to determine what the cleartext is,
It is likely that a determined attacker can decrypt and decompress the
XORed result.  
Brad
Brad Kemp
Indus River Networks, Inc.                   BradKemp@indusriver.com
31 Nagog Park						 978-266-8122
Acton, MA 01720                              fax 978-266-8111




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Iain Collins 
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 01:45:25 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: I need a compiler!
Message-ID: <3573BB3C.BFF57DC@sol.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


>> And J-Dog, what is up with the fucked up lingo...This ain't the
movies...
>fucked up lingo? gee, I am very sorry if your small mind can not make
out
>my words.. but I can assure you that this is NOT fucked up lingo... go
>read some h4x0r Br0s and then tell me about how fuct up my lingo is....

>
>Latez
>JD
>
>btw... congrats on your really kool superl33t juno.com account.. you
are
>r33t now.

Both of you lose all all guru/elite points accumulated thus far by
wasting bandwidth due to (repeatedly) inapproproately posting to the
CypherPunks mailling list. Doh!

Iain Collins, icollins@sol.co.uk






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Paul H. Merrill" 
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 09:37:48 -0700 (PDT)
To: Iain Collins 
Subject: Re: Counterpane Cracks MS's PPTP
In-Reply-To: <002301bd8e39$c8b18880$c7f3b094@webadmin.sol.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3574553D.3F0BE65A@acm.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Iain Collins wrote:
<>

> I beleive that no operating system has ever been given a C2 certification,
> and that only indiviual installations can be certifed.
>

Both Right and WrongC2 (or other) certification is given to a product system,
not an OS  nor an installation.  NT on a specific configuration of a specific
manufacturer, fo instance. (and with a specific mix of other software)  The
intent was to make available Commercial Off The Shelf (COTS) systems for gov
purchase.)  But the concept was generated in the mainframe/Mini frame of mind.

> This requries that each installation be transported and conducted under
> armed guard, which is case with certain US government Microsoft NT
> Workstation installations.
>
> It is also stated (somewhere, but I don't have the details to hand) that no
> C2 rated system should be plugged in to an external network connection (i.e.
> the internet), and that only connections to secure LAN's/WAN's are permitted
> (otherwise the C2 certification is meaningless, hence why NT Sever has never
> been C2 certified IIRC).
>

The network issue is one with deep ramifications and not as simple as listed in
the above Para.  Two totally secure nets can be not secure when connected to
each other because of the data interface for security levels, user permisisions
etc.

> I would be grateful if anyone can categorically deny or in any way support
> this.
>

NCSC has a whole line of books on it all.  Red is the Network Interpretation,
Orange is the Criteria itself.

> <>

PHM

author, NOT the Orange Book -- A Guide to the Definition, Specification,
Tasking, and Documentation for the Development of Secure Computer Systems --
Including Condensations of the Memebers of the Rainbow Series and Related
Documents, Merlyn Press, WPAFB, 1992

NTOB is available for those who want it.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: vac22737889@msn.com
Date: Sat, 6 Jun 1998 01:54:37 -0700 (PDT)
To: vac22737889@msn.com
Subject: RE: URGENT BUY RECOMMENDATION
Message-ID: <221548788987.MAA45587@mail.msn.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


R & R Resources.
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Recent Price: 8 3/4 ($8.75/share)

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BUY recommendation on RRRI stock.  Robert Renquist was quoted as
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continuing  appreciation during the 4th quarter of 1998".

Harvard Equity Research's recommendation AATK went
from $3 to $9.00 in ten trading days!

Harvard Equity Research is so confident of their projections that they
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or send a SASE, for a free issue of Harvard Equity Research's latest
top-rated newsletter, to:H.E.R., 35 rue des Bains, CH-1205 Geneve,
Switzerland. 

















From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Chris Wedgwood 
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 20:24:24 -0700 (PDT)
To: "William H. Geiger III" 
Subject: Re: Counterpane Cracks MS's PPTP
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <19980602152326.B32084@caffeine.ix.net.nz>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Mon, Jun 01, 1998 at 04:24:44PM -0500, William H. Geiger III wrote:

> Previous security foobars by M$:
> 
> NT C2 <---- LOL!!!

Standard marketroid talk, I think M$ still tout this, but not so loudly
these days. Last I heard they were trying to get C2 with network
connectivity, but that was a while ago (2 years?) so they may have given up.
I'm sure I would have heard if it had.

That said, C2 doesn't necessarily buy you all that much.

> Active X <---- Who was the brain child that though *that* up?

Sure it sucks, it sucks for lots of reasons. But for the average luser it
still better than plugins so thats why its taken off. And what make
downloading a plugin and installing that any better? 

> Auto-Launch attached binaries in E-Mail <-- Can we say GoodTimes?

Can anyone confirm that this has indeed been fixed yet?

I should also point out that buffer overflow bugs have been known for some
time (years?) with various unix mailers and their handling of .mailcap which
essentially amounts to the same thing.

> Crypto-API <--- Right I would *trust* that. Honest. :)

Does anyone have a list of design and implementation flaws for CAPI? I've
had discussions with a couple of people about these, but never seen anything
published.

> TCP/IP Stack <--- Too many flaws to list.

Yeah... its crap, but not necessarily that much worse that some of the
others out there. If someone were keeping score on which stacks help up the
best against all the attacks of the last two years it probably wouldn't be
the worst.

> Why would anyone trust these simpletons to produce any type of security
> product?

Sure. 95% of the population does.

People need to be educated about important issues, and using lots of
complicated gobbledygook doesn't help. If you, like me, have a loved one
that isn't terribly interested in computers or encryption, then see if the
phrase 'modular exponentiation' doesn't kick there eye-glaze-secreting gland
into over drive.

I guess this is something Bruce Schneier has done well - a report for
technical people who will read it, laugh and say they aren't surprised, and
press releases with LOTS OF BIG LETTERS AND SMALL WORDS for the rest of the
population including morons that are the media.

I think everyone is waiting for NT5. Multi-user NT is at best an interesting
concept. I remember at university using (arguably buggy) unix boxen with
200+ users simultaneously, with relatively few problems, but I'll be really
surprised if NT could get close to this....

I am so looking forward to NT5, it should prove to be very entertaining and
perhaps a really good opportunity to educate the public.


OK, getting bored with this reply now, so here it goes, errors and all....


-Chris

P.S. How does M$ sidestep the ITAR with ipsec code in Win98/NT5?




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Iain Collins" 
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 08:20:43 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: RE: Counterpane Cracks MS's PPTP
In-Reply-To: <19980602152326.B32084@caffeine.ix.net.nz>
Message-ID: <002301bd8e39$c8b18880$c7f3b094@webadmin.sol.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


As reguards:

> Previous security foobars by M$:
>
> NT C2 <---- LOL!!!

I beleive that no operating system has ever been given a C2 certification,
and that only indiviual installations can be certifed.

This requries that each installation be transported and conducted under
armed guard, which is case with certain US government Microsoft NT
Workstation installations.

It is also stated (somewhere, but I don't have the details to hand) that no
C2 rated system should be plugged in to an external network connection (i.e.
the internet), and that only connections to secure LAN's/WAN's are permitted
(otherwise the C2 certification is meaningless, hence why NT Sever has never
been C2 certified IIRC).

I would be grateful if anyone can categorically deny or in any way support
this.

> Auto-Launch attached binaries in E-Mail <-- Can we say GoodTimes?

The GoodTimes virus was, according to the DOE's CAIC a hoax. This is also my
personal opinion. This is what DOE's CAIC have to say:
http://ciac.llnl.gov/ciac/CIACHoaxes.html#goodtimes
Or, more amusingly.
http://ciac.llnl.gov/ciac/CIACHoaxes.html#goodspoof

However All E-mail readers that support HTML & JavaScript/Java/Active-X are
inherantly insecure. This inlcudes Netscape Navigator and Microsoft Outlook,
where mearly the act of previewing a malicious message can cause adverse
effects.

If anyone were to include a embed a malicious Java or Active-X control then
the supposed sandbox in Windows 9X/NT would be ineffectual as one could
conceviably create a control which could execute software anywhere on the
hard disk (this has already been done using both Active-X and IE under
Windows 95). Thus it follows that it could determain what viewer it is being
read under and execute any other attachments in the same e-mail from where
the are stored (in Netscape/Outlook) which could then... 

Iain Collins, icollins@sol.co.uk





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Dark Knight 
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 17:42:52 -0700 (PDT)
To: "William H. Geiger III" 
Subject: Re: WinNT C2?
In-Reply-To: <199806022355.SAA008.18@geiger.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


> 
> >Windows NT4.0 has been tested under the red book spec published by the
> >NCSC. That means in effect, NT is C2 compliant in a stand alone
> >environment. Howver, NT does NOT comply with the orange book spec which
> >defines additional requirements when the machine is used in a networked
> >environment. It *IS* possible for an operating system that is on a
> >networked machine to be C2(Orange Book) compliant. Microsoft has never
> >stated that it is C2 compliant on a network, however their page about C2
> >and NT is poorly worded, and effectively discounts the importance of the
> >Orange Book spec.
Do you know the Redbook specs?  From my understanding of the specs to have
a C2 rateing you can't have a NIC card or Disk Drive.  But I think you can
have a NIC card in the machine connected to a network that is enrycpted
network.  But I could be wrong but I don't forget most of what I read.. 

> 
> >It would be fun to get ahold of the specs from the NCSC.
> 
> You have this backward,
> 
> The "Red Book": NCSC-TG-005 "Trusted Network Interpretation of the Trusted
> Computer System Evaluation Criteria"

> The "Orange Book": DOD 5200.28-STD "DOD Trusted Computer System Evaluation
> Criteria"
> 
> A NT machine to meet DOD 5200.28 C2 rating needs to be seriously crippled
> when comapired to normal operation. No removable media, No Modem, No
> Network Connection, hell pluging the dam thing and turning it on probably
> puts it's C2 rating in jepordy.
> 
> The reason M$ downplays their C2 rating is that in average day to day use
> of this OS it does not meet this rating.
> 
> NT has never had any RedBook rating and is not certified for use in a
> secure network.
MS is haveing problems meeting the standards and they have alot of work
to do on NT when it comes to Secuirty.  Any was see MSN.com today?

			|)ark |(night

DEFINITION.
Windows 95: n.   32 bit extensions and a graphical shell for a
16 bit patch to an 8 bit operating system originally coded for
a 4 bit microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that can't
stand 1 bit of competition.

Http://www.EliteHackers.org/DarkKnight






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Xcott Craver 
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 16:31:53 -0700 (PDT)
To: Brad Kemp 
Subject: Re: Counterpane Cracks MS's PPTP
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980602090947.0317cc10@pop3.indusriver.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Tue, 2 Jun 1998, Brad Kemp wrote:

> It is possible to recover all the clear text from a PPTP session,
> even if most of the traffic is going in one direction only.
> The failure is in MPPE.  When MPPE gets a sequenceing error, it
> resets the key.  This causes the cipher stream to be reset.  It is
> partially covered in section 5.4.

	I really think the XOR weaknesses deserve as much publicity 
	as possible, because they are IMHO the simplest to exploit,
	and the result of the dumbest mistakes.

	So far we have three:  40-bit RC4 uses the same key with every 
	session (!!), the client and server seems to encrypt with the same
	key stream going both ways (!!!), and then this resequencing
	attack.

	Are all three of these fixed?  The certainly aren't 
	"theoretical." 

==-  Xcott Craver -- Caj@niu.edu -- http://www.math.niu.edu/~caj/  -==
"This is a different thing:  it's spontaneous and it's called 'wit.'"
                                                      -The Black Adder





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 16:51:48 -0700 (PDT)
To: Jim Tatz 
Subject: Re: WinNT C2?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199806022355.SAA008.18@geiger.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In
,
on 06/02/98 
   at 07:09 PM, Jim Tatz  said:

>Windows NT4.0 has been tested under the red book spec published by the
>NCSC. That means in effect, NT is C2 compliant in a stand alone
>environment. Howver, NT does NOT comply with the orange book spec which
>defines additional requirements when the machine is used in a networked
>environment. It *IS* possible for an operating system that is on a
>networked machine to be C2(Orange Book) compliant. Microsoft has never
>stated that it is C2 compliant on a network, however their page about C2
>and NT is poorly worded, and effectively discounts the importance of the
>Orange Book spec.

>It would be fun to get ahold of the specs from the NCSC.

You have this backward,

The "Red Book": NCSC-TG-005 "Trusted Network Interpretation of the Trusted
Computer System Evaluation Criteria"

The "Orange Book": DOD 5200.28-STD "DOD Trusted Computer System Evaluation
Criteria"

A NT machine to meet DOD 5200.28 C2 rating needs to be seriously crippled
when comapired to normal operation. No removable media, No Modem, No
Network Connection, hell pluging the dam thing and turning it on probably
puts it's C2 rating in jepordy.

The reason M$ downplays their C2 rating is that in average day to day use
of this OS it does not meet this rating.

NT has never had any RedBook rating and is not certified for use in a
secure network.


- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgp.html
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: OS/2 means...CURTAINS for Windows!

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3a-sha1
Charset: cp850
Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000

iQCVAwUBNXSQ/I9Co1n+aLhhAQH0/AQAmuhCSKG8mogzfbvq9x7Z90vghRWPOKzJ
4AMffpsPh4mpUnx6VHPLBksa4j3lyUh/67WwqozILzDna1fXfbYu/7eFsWltjw2n
yb1YQKOIhJU+SgbO5kSfakc3oGaKAXElmHDcdTWJdl+g6PShDTM6KXRPgqcMi55I
jfnqVPDKics=
=CPFu
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Tatz 
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 16:10:10 -0700 (PDT)
To: Iain Collins 
Subject: WinNT C2?
In-Reply-To: <002301bd8e39$c8b18880$c7f3b094@webadmin.sol.co.uk>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Windows NT4.0 has been tested under the red book spec published by the
NCSC. That means in effect, NT is C2 compliant in a stand alone
environment. Howver, NT does NOT comply with the orange book spec which
defines additional requirements when the machine is used in a networked
environment. It *IS* possible for an operating system that is on a
networked machine to be C2(Orange Book) compliant. Microsoft has never
stated that it is C2 compliant on a network, however their page about C2
and NT is poorly worded, and effectively discounts the importance of the
Orange Book spec.

It would be fun to get ahold of the specs from the NCSC.

-Jim





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Chris Wedgwood 
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 00:17:02 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Counterpane Cracks MS's PPTP
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <19980602191625.A14758@caffeine.ix.net.nz>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Tue, Jun 02, 1998 at 12:20:11AM -0400, StanSqncrs@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 6/1/98 10:38:20 PM Central Daylight Time,
> chris@cybernet.co.nz writes:
> 
> << > Auto-Launch attached binaries in E-Mail <-- Can we say GoodTimes?
>  
>  Can anyone confirm that this has indeed been fixed yet? >>
> 
> It was my understanding, that the so-called GoodTimes virus was a farce,
> apparently aimed at specific commercial spammers.

GoodTimes is a hoax.

I'm talking about a bug in Outlook (Express?) that will execute code when
email messages are opened.



-Chris




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: q772d3 
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 19:31:51 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <19943672.886214@relay.comanche.denmark.eu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Authenticated sender is 
Subject:  q 77
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ryan Anderson 
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 16:54:58 -0700 (PDT)
To: Jim Tatz 
Subject: Re: WinNT C2?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Tue, 2 Jun 1998, Jim Tatz wrote:

> 
> Windows NT4.0 has been tested under the red book spec published by the
> NCSC. That means in effect, NT is C2 compliant in a stand alone
> environment. Howver, NT does NOT comply with the orange book spec which
> defines additional requirements when the machine is used in a networked
> environment. It *IS* possible for an operating system that is on a
> networked machine to be C2(Orange Book) compliant. Microsoft has never
> stated that it is C2 compliant on a network, however their page about C2
> and NT is poorly worded, and effectively discounts the importance of the
> Orange Book spec.
> 
> It would be fun to get ahold of the specs from the NCSC.

I believe you've got your colors backwards here..

NT is C2 compliant in standalone format, with Posix disabled.  It's an
unusable configuration.  That's all I can remember off the top of my head
though..

Ryan Anderson 
PGP fp: 7E 8E C6 54 96 AC D9 57  E4 F8 AE 9C 10 7E 78 C9





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Tatz 
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 17:14:27 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: WinNT C2?
In-Reply-To: <199806022355.SAA008.18@geiger.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


> A NT machine to meet DOD 5200.28 C2 rating needs to be seriously crippled
> when comapired to normal operation. No removable media, No Modem, No
> Network Connection, hell pluging the dam thing and turning it on probably
> puts it's C2 rating in jepordy.
> 
> The reason M$ downplays their C2 rating is that in average day to day use
> of this OS it does not meet this rating.
> 
> NT has never had any RedBook rating and is not certified for use in a
> secure network.

In addition to the converstaion, MS says:
Microsoft has opted not to include certain components of Windows NT in the
evaluation process, not because they would not pass the evaluation, but to
save time by reducing the load on the NSA. Additionally, the
MS-DOS/Windows on Windows (WOW) system may be treated as a Win32
application and would therefore not need to be evaluated as part of the
Trusted Computer Base (TCB). Networking on NT may not have to go
through the "Red Book," or "Trusted Network Interpretation." It may be
enough to consider networking to be another subsystem, and therefore only
the Orange Book would apply. New or modified components and other hardware
platforms can go through a "RAMP" process to be included in the evaluation
at a later time. 

http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q93/3/62.asp
[Isn't it great, you have to register for FREE support?]

-Jim





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 18:22:02 -0700 (PDT)
To: Jim Tatz 
Subject: Re: WinNT C2?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199806030125.UAA009.35@geiger.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In
,
on 06/02/98 
   at 08:14 PM, Jim Tatz  said:

>In addition to the converstaion, MS says:
>Microsoft has opted not to include certain components of Windows NT in
>the evaluation process, not because they would not pass the evaluation,
>but to save time by reducing the load on the NSA. Additionally, the
>MS-DOS/Windows on Windows (WOW) system may be treated as a Win32
>application and would therefore not need to be evaluated as part of the
>Trusted Computer Base (TCB). Networking on NT may not have to go through
>the "Red Book," or "Trusted Network Interpretation." It may be enough to
>consider networking to be another subsystem, and therefore only the
>Orange Book would apply. New or modified components and other hardware
>platforms can go through a "RAMP" process to be included in the
>evaluation at a later time. 


Good God what kind of double talk is this? It doesn't need Red Book eval.
and networking can be treated as a sub-system?!? Well I guess the guys
down at NSA just wrote the Red Book (which is significantly larger than
the Orange Book) because they were board.

I would not trust Micky$lop to tell me that the sky was blue and water was
wet let alone trust them to provide *any* form of security product.

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgp.html
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: Get OS/2 - the best Windows tip around!

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3a-sha1
Charset: cp850
Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000

iQCVAwUBNXSmHI9Co1n+aLhhAQEdowP9FsXmZOEk8KMKvgVun8wbMQqIUoGjB3wj
e+dXsPglA/ya2S2+/wwdQFW2UEXvqHYR4MNV8Af/jqnxQgOk//4ZJVUrf+dkd65u
dOfa2eICbFyRg8OgZZgWDXFr1IvgLpcS36U0V+LyebaoyCqI/WsMnx6zcx8qEzHs
iiF7kDJJPmE=
=HBxD
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 18:46:20 -0700 (PDT)
To: Dark Knight 
Subject: Re: WinNT C2?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199806030150.UAA009.49@geiger.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In , on
06/02/98 
   at 12:35 PM, Dark Knight  said:

>Do you know the Redbook specs?  From my understanding of the specs to
>have a C2 rateing you can't have a NIC card or Disk Drive.  But I think
>you can have a NIC card in the machine connected to a network that is
>enrycpted network.  But I could be wrong but I don't forget most of what
>I read.. 

You are making the same mistake the previous poster made on this.

Orange Book == Standalone
Red Book    == Network

The numerious criteria for the various levels of trusted systems are too
numerious to list here. I *strongly* recomend obtaining copies of the
Rainbow Series from the NSA (they will mail a copy for free) and studying
the documentation. They are well written and easy to read (unlike many
such papers which are techno-bable filled).

There are aprox. 30 manuals in the Rainbow Series that cover a wide range
of topics related to Trusted Systems of which the Orange Book is a small
part. I doubt you could find more than 5 M$ employees that have read more
than a quarter of the manuals let alone are able to implement their
principals. 

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgp.html
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: I love running Windows! NOT!

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3a-sha1
Charset: cp850
Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000

iQCVAwUBNXSr2Y9Co1n+aLhhAQGtDAQApkDb/TiweTEuMnijTqOVcwcFuqQGKh/7
wZjiBu6S+VcyVUj/dcTyUwszqD1vuBUuevD8W9+dGdqjxRz/P8nxYelqaZfza997
sraI5Wc3MjGxp64plbRAt6qOzZjfFCXOv/ZSuRrf9tXjHFJeZz0KSkNex3Haz54j
zmxljrbnmB8=
=J5Mg
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Dark Knight 
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 21:32:09 -0700 (PDT)
To: "William H. Geiger III" 
Subject: Re: WinNT C2?
In-Reply-To: <199806030150.UAA009.49@geiger.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> 
> In , on
> 06/02/98 
>    at 12:35 PM, Dark Knight  said:
> 
> >Do you know the Redbook specs?  From my understanding of the specs to
> >have a C2 rateing you can't have a NIC card or Disk Drive.  But I think
> >you can have a NIC card in the machine connected to a network that is
> >enrycpted network.  But I could be wrong but I don't forget most of what
> >I read.. 
> 
> You are making the same mistake the previous poster made on this.
> 
> Orange Book == Standalone
> Red Book    == Network
> 
> The numerious criteria for the various levels of trusted systems are too
> numerious to list here. I *strongly* recomend obtaining copies of the
> Rainbow Series from the NSA (they will mail a copy for free) and studying
> the documentation. They are well written and easy to read (unlike many
> such papers which are techno-bable filled).
> 
> There are aprox. 30 manuals in the Rainbow Series that cover a wide range
> of topics related to Trusted Systems of which the Orange Book is a small
> part. I doubt you could find more than 5 M$ employees that have read more
> than a quarter of the manuals let alone are able to implement their
> principals. 
I had a copy but like a dumb ass I forgot them where I used to live.  I
don't think the NSA or DOD I think it's the NSA gives away free copys any
more.. 

			|)ark |(night

DEFINITION.
Windows 95: n.   32 bit extensions and a graphical shell for a
16 bit patch to an 8 bit operating system originally coded for
a 4 bit microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that can't
stand 1 bit of competition.

Http://www.EliteHackers.org/DarkKnight






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Chris Wedgwood 
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 04:16:03 -0700 (PDT)
To: Alan 
Subject: Re: Counterpane Cracks MS's PPTP
In-Reply-To: <199806012143.QAA018.23@geiger.com>
Message-ID: <19980602231500.A532@caffeine.ix.net.nz>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Mon, Jun 01, 1998 at 10:03:43PM -0700, Alan wrote:

> >That said, C2 doesn't necessarily buy you all that much.
> 
> Is this not what they claimed when they sold NT to the Air Force?  Judging
> by some of the Air Force software I have seen, this frightens me more than
> most things.

Either M$ lied, or the Air Force should no better. In the former, the Air
Force should sue M$, but more likely its the latter. Why should the Air
Force have clue-full people when most large corporates, banks, governments,
IT companies and software companies do not?

Governments with large databases full of all your personal details and banks
with all your financial details are two really good examples of
organizations which should do a good job with system security and
reliability but invariably do the worst (some exceptions apply).

> >Sure it sucks, it sucks for lots of reasons. But for the average luser it
> >still better than plugins so thats why its taken off. And what make
> >downloading a plugin and installing that any better?
> 
> You have a little more control over plug-ins.

It doesn't really buy much. Most people will blindly download anything and
install it. If it doesn't install the first time by finding all the right
file locations, etc. and allowing the use to click Next every time, they
will start deleting files at random trying to remove it.

Perhaps I'm over stating things, but I'm a tad jaded from having to make
documentation and software work for morons (the public at large).

> But those are specific to the client.  Most Unix users know better.

The M$ example is confined to a specific client. Many unix users use unix
because they are required too, these people are probably as clue-less and
luse95 users.

On average the number of clue-full 95 users against the number of clue-full
unix users is probably 10:1 despite luse95 large user base, quoting numbers
which I just made up of course and clue-full being defined by me, and able
to be redefined whenever I feel like it.

This is all beside the point - someone mentioned that a M$ mailer had a very
nasty bug, I just pointed out that can and has also occurred elsewhere.

> >Does anyone have a list of design and implementation flaws for CAPI? I've
> >had discussions with a couple of people about these, but never seen
> >anything published.
> 
> I know of one, but I cannot release details yet.  (I did not discover it
> and i need to wait until the non-beta version of the product is released.)
> Besides, I have been told I will be killed if I reveal it before it is
> time.

It can wait. It seems plenty of others are waiting.... 
 
> >Yeah... its crap, but not necessarily that much worse that some of the
> >others out there. If someone were keeping score on which stacks help up
> >the best against all the attacks of the last two years it probably
> >wouldn't be the worst.
> 
> A great deal of this blame can be placed on the WinSock spec.  The spec
> was quite "loose" in many details of the implementation.  You could be
> complient and still not be able to deal with much of the software out
> there.  

The issues most people complain about are not related to the WinSock API,
but poor coding in the stack that make stack overflows and memory buffer
curruption trivial. Similar bugs used to exist in the *BSD and linux stacks,
as with the streams library used by SCO and Solaris (although maybe solaris
has something funny there).

> My vote for bad PC stack of the century was the one put out by Sun.
> Not even close to compatible...

No, my shit-stack-off-the-week (I just decided now) goes to Ultrix stack
which barfs on unknown tcp options and hence is complete fucked when tying
to comminicate with a recent *BSD or linux boxes, solaris and possible
Win98/NT5.

> Sturgeon's law applies to people as well...

?

Sorry... don't know it.
 
> >People need to be educated about important issues, and using lots of
> >complicated gobbledygook doesn't help. If you, like me, have a loved one
> >that isn't terribly interested in computers or encryption, then see if
> >the phrase 'modular exponentiation' doesn't kick there
> >eye-glaze-secreting gland into over drive.
> 
> Most everything involving computers tends to do that.

Only because people are fed bullshit and lies by 80% of the industry
'consultants' who don't know much and use big words to cover this up.

I really think people would be much more willing if they weren't feed so
much crap at times.

> You can type it out in clear, short sentences and the media will still
> screw it up.  If you have no clue as to what you are writing about, the
> accuracy of what you write will suffer.

Again, the above applies, but bear in mind that most people in the modern
media have little interest in the truth unless it helps sales, and if not
then just 'modify the story a bit'. 

It also helps to consider that most reporters are pretty dumb and lack any
real qualifications to talk about the things that they do, PC rag. editors
being a really good example.


Lets face it, we use the 'net and crypto, so we are dirty filthy prevented
peadophile unabomber criminals who are going to pervert the youth and
corrupt the America way. If you deny this it just proves what an
untrustworthy person you are.

> Multi-user NT is available now. Citrix and NCD both have versions out now.
> (Both are based on NT 3.51. They would have released a 4.0 product long
> ago, but Microsoft wanted the product for themselves.) The server load
> seems to be about 50 users per box. Depends on what you are running.

Slightly different that NT5 though... I know people working on large Citrix
boxes with 2GB of ram and they speak quite highly of it, but their 40+ users
are running custom apps. with an NT4 like gui.

I'm not so sure it would work so great with 10+ people running Visual C++ to
compile and debug code.... where as unix boxen have been doing this for
years with 500+ people.

What really sucks is there is some nice ideas in bits of NT, only what
little kewl stuff there is has lost all credibility because of the
atrociously large bloated buggy code that constitutes the other 99% of it.

> Assuming that they can be educated.  Better to offer them a choice.  It is
> hard to say "X is bad" unless you have an alternative.

The real shame in all this is there is no really viable choice to the evil
borg. Not yet anyhow....



-Chris




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: jimmy@weboneinc.net
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 20:29:48 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: $25.00 Signup!
Message-ID: <199806030329.XAA32240@josh1.weboneinc.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: samantha21@worldnet.att.net
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 21:53:36 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: Lunch...
Message-ID: <199806030453.AAA18564@spruce.libertynet.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



The Best Adults Only Website I've Seen!

       This one has EVERYTHING!

              Take a Look

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Tatz 
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 23:05:48 -0700 (PDT)
To: Andrew White 
Subject: Re: WinNT C2? - How about WinNT and some C-4?
In-Reply-To: <008e01bd8ead$5cdc4db0$0100007f@localhost>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


> NT 4.0 has never passed ANY security evaluation. NT 3.51 passed a UK one in
> October 1996, NT 3.5 passed C2 in
> 1995. Both these earlier versions are effectively unusable due to diverse
> and numerous bugs unrelated to security,
> and both the evaulations were without a network card.

Surprisingly enough NT4.0 has not received the C2 rating, although I could
have sworn I have seen remarks about Nt4.0 and C2 certification on a
Microsoft page. According to WIRED, NT 4.0 is undergoing testing, and will
supposedly be certified in Oct.

Apparently the gov't isn't too happy with the way MS is bluring the edges
of C2 certification of their products [Which they are buying].

	http://www.wired.com/news/news/technology/story/12121.html

-Jim





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: rescue9111@hotmail.com
Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 04:29:59 -0700 (PDT)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: 10-03
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain








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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Andrew White" 
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 22:06:40 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: Re: WinNT C2?
Message-ID: <008e01bd8ead$5cdc4db0$0100007f@localhost>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Versions are important, too...

Quote from current Microsoft Web site...

" evaluation along with the US TCSEC class C2 evaluation
completed in 1995 for Windows NT 3.5
demonstrates Microsoft's commitment to building a secure operating system
and continuing to provide customers
with assurance of its security characteristics based on these evaluations>"

NT 4.0 has never passed ANY security evaluation. NT 3.51 passed a UK one in
October 1996, NT 3.5 passed C2 in
1995. Both these earlier versions are effectively unusable due to diverse
and numerous bugs unrelated to security,
and both the evaulations were without a network card.


Later,
Andrew.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Global Web Builders 
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 15:57:13 -0700 (PDT)
To: (Recipient list suppressed)
Subject: Pauline Hanson's speech in parliament
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980602225151.00b8d840@mail.pronet.net.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


G'day,

The media are once again blatantly misrepresenting the issues that Pauline
Hanson raised in parliament yesterday.

We would invite you to see for yourself a verbatim transcript of what she
said and view direct links to the ATSIC and UN home pages which confirm her
concerns on the issues raised such as the planned "formation of independent
Aboriginal states" in Australia.
 
View: http://www.gwb.com.au/un.html

Be informed! Do not believe the lies the media tell.

Please print out her speech and distribute it freely.

GWB




Scott Balson






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 10:03:17 -0700 (PDT)
To: jensul@wired.com
Subject: My knowledge of NSA 'deficient' crypto algorithms
Message-ID: <3575813B.4DBE@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Wednesday 6/3/98 10:55 AM

jensul

So as not to misspell J[G]en[n]ifer.

You might be interested to look at the University of Southern
California home page on the gfsr.

My co-author Lewis was one of my former ms and phd students.

NSA's crypto algorithms are okay - for hardware implementation -
but are classified, in my opinion, to possibly hide embarrassment.

Some of us at Sandia offered to help NSA fix its 'deficient' crypto
algorithms.  For money, of course.

It is EASY to make a BLUNDER in crypto.  For theoretical or
implementation reasons.  NSA knows this too.  And is pretty cautious
about what it does.

I partially read another crypto-related article at

http://www.news.com/News/Item/0%2C4%2C22705%2C00.html?st.ne.fd.gif.j

Best
bill

Subject: 
        Marc Dacier
  Date: 
        Wed, 03 Jun 1998 07:34:04 -0600
  From: 
        bill payne 
    To: 
        jy@jya.com
    CC: 
        dac@zurich.ibm.com, kaj@lanl.gov


Wednesday 6/3/98 7:25 AM

John Young

I looked at http://www.zurich.ibm.com/~dac/RAID98

I was in Marc Dacier's (IBM Zurich Research Laboratory, Switzerland)
office last April in Zurich.

Dacier was quizzing me about what the US was concerned about,
secuity-wise, inside weapons systems.  Spiking, of course.

And it was so nice to learn only yesterday that USC has a home page
something I thought-up.

http://www-hto.usc.edu/software/seqaln/doc/html/gfsr.3.html

I SURE UNDERSTOOD the algorithms behind the NSA KG schematics
Brian Snow showed me.

Let's continue to hope for prompt settlement of the unfortunate matter
BEFORE things get WORSE.  

And we can all get onto better and hopefully less destructive,
http://www.aci.net/kalliste/, endeavors.

Later
bill






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Guerra 
Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 14:53:56 -0700 (PDT)
To: mpj@ebible.org>
Subject: Re: PGP Keysigning Announcement page
In-Reply-To: <199806021710.NAA28763@shell1.interlog.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

I would like to know if you could include a link the following www address
which I have setup in the PGP FAQ that you maintain.

If you place a link to the page on your www page...please let me know so
that I can place a reciprocal link.
- ---

In an attempt to encourage PGP keysigning parties
I have created a PGP Keysigning Announcement page.

(http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/3378/pgpparty.html)


It is my hope that with time it will be a place where PGP users
can know  when & where the next keysigning session (in thier area)
will be held.

If you know of a keysigning party that is held anywhere please
let me know so that I can list it.


(any other comments or suggestions also welcome)

regards

robert



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Business Security 5.5.3
Comment: Digital signatures verify author and unaltered content

iQEVAwUBNXVj2Is5aKqJYZvFAQF+Wwf9HPcukFKiYhFYN5h8dIFNApF8/+89kudu
NWKWLy5WEEDvcK12Unf0i9Ihwch8a5hANb3oP5R57hNttUUJa+7Lb4O5pg/D52XM
7aHu+JHW/4ZCVhGUAqBvuV+rJkRZJgvCe1vGC3JsB6V3vBm+pNEmyz5C9w7R00nW
7dTG4wXlzxda8fIPbcdOC8iZYR3j2YeEiQvuV5gktsx0VIk9ZLn1Pz4TqNQCTUmW
qyVTZz5LV6EKsjr2/SM1OLIJkjNZyCYMqQZ3Bt/ZPMXKuaYmhcTyYOXggEuU2r9W
4mITGDuHItyUwV45lJUBCzZYYowSNBABOXGJ4fwkpKRKWo1Uuw0vZg==
=EmIr
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Robert Guerra - Email-> mailto:az096@freenet.toronto.on.ca  ICQ #10266626
Home Page-> http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/3378
PGPKeys available on WWW Page & via finger://rguerra@flare.dynip.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 08:47:39 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: RE: DNA sequencing info needed
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199806031547.LAA04781@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


It's now a cliche of bio-terrorism bellringers that
"this stuff scares me silly," with scientists, pols
and first responders now comically repeating the 
code.

A technological artist on Long Island has set up in 
his studio a collection of the most deadly germs known 
on earth, in a small glass display, with labels and 
descriptions of what they are and can do: dosages, kill
ratios, distribution methods, sources of specimens
and food supplies, URLs for bio-terrorists.

He invites art connoisseurs to visit. They walk around
the room looking for the show, see little except typical
suburban living room furniture, then spy the glass
tank, approach, read, freeze, then begin to tremble.

Some scream, some faint, some vomit in horror,
claw clothing, stampede for the exit.

The artist tries to reassure them it's only a carefully 
constructed simulation. None believe him. They shiver 
outside in the yard and whimper accusations of terrorism, 
which, he confesses, is the truth of bio-terrorism, to 
scare sane people silly.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: dac@zurich.ibm.com (Marc Dacier)
Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 03:28:09 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Last Call For Participation - RAID 98
Message-ID: <9806031027.AA140462@collon.zurich.ibm.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



		Last Call For Participation - RAID 98

      (also available at http://www.zurich.ibm.com/~dac/RAID98)

   First International Workshop on the Recent Advances in Intrusion
			      Detection

	   September 14-15, 1998 Louvain-la-Neuve, Belgium

We solicit your participation in the first International Workshop on the 
Recent Advances in Intrusion Detection (RAID 98). 

This workshop, the first in an anticipated annual series, will bring 
together leading figures from academia, government, and industry to talk 
about the current state of intrusion detection technologies and paradigms 
from the research and commercial perspectives. 

Research into and development of automated intrusion detection systems 
(IDS) has been under way for nearly 10 years. By now a number of systems 
have been deployed in the commercial or government arenas, but all are 
limited in what they do. At the same time, the numerous research and 
prototype systems developed have been more engineering than scientific 
efforts, with scant quantitative performance figures. As we survey the 
field of automated intrusion detection, we are faced with many questions: 

1.	What research questions have yet to be answered (or even
        asked) about IDS? 
2.	What are the open challenges, limitations, and fundamental
        concerns about present intrusion detection methodologies? 
3.	What metrics can we use to measure IDS performance and thus 
        compare different systems and methodologies? These
        measurements should highlight the successes and expose the
        limitations of current IDS approaches. 
4.	What factors are inhibiting transfer of research ideas into 
        functional deployed systems? How can those be addressed? 
5.	What is the role of a deployed IDS? How should or can it fit in 
        with other security systems? 
6.	What are the typical IDS operating environments? What can be 
        done to configure IDS to unique operating environments?
7.	What are the challenges for IDS in very large environments, such 
        as the Internet? 
8.	Is it time to contemplate IDS standards? What are the advantages
        and disadvantages of standardizing components of IDS?
        What forums (e.g., IETF, ISO) would be appropriate for
        pursuing such standards? 
9.	What are the problems of turning the results of intrusion
        detection tools into legally reliable evidence? What are the
        problems of admissibility and of courtroom presentation? 

We invite proposals and panels that explore these questions or any other 
aspect of automated intrusion detection. We especially solicit proposals 
and panels that address: 

1.	New results related to intrusion detection methodologies and 
        technologies. 
2.	Innovative ways of thinking about intrusion detection; for 
        example, the applicability of R&D in the fields of survivable
        and/or dependable systems, data mining, etc. 
3.	User experiences and lessons learned from fielded intrusion 
        detection systems. 
4.	IDS for emerging computer environments (e.g., Java, CORBA, and 
        NT). 
5.      Commercial intrusion detection systems.

We have scheduled RAID 98 immediately before ESORICS 98, at the same time 
as CARDIS 98, and at the same location as both of these conferences. This 
provides a unique opportunity for the members of these distinct, yet 
related, communities to participate in all these events and meet and share 
ideas during joined organized external events. 

GENERAL CO-CHAIRS
*****************

Marc Dacier (IBM Zurich Research Laboratory, Switzerland)
Kathleen Jackson (Los Alamos National Laboratory, USA)

PROGRAM COMMITTEE
*****************

Matt Bishop (University of California at Davis, USA)
Dick Brackney (National Security Agency, USA)
Yves Deswarte (LAAS-CNRS & INRIA, France)
Baudouin Le Charlier (Universite de Namur, Belgium)
Stuart Staniford-Chen (University of California at Davis, USA)
Rowena Chester (University of Tennessee, USA)
Deborah Frincke (University of Idaho, USA)
Tim Grance (National Institute of Standards and Technology, USA)
Sokratis Katsikas (University of the Aegean, Greece)
Jean-Jacques Quisquater (Universite Catholique de Louvain, Belgium)
Mark Schneider (National Security Agency, USA)
Marv Schaefer (Arca Systems, USA)
Peter Sommer (London School of Economics & Political Science, England)
Steve Smaha (Free Agent, USA)
Gene Spafford (Purdue University, USA)
Chris Wee (University of California at Davis, USA)
Kevin Ziese (Cisco, USA)

SUBMISSIONS
***********

The program committee invites proposals for both technical and general 
interest talks and panels.

Each talk or panel submission must contain:

1)  A separate title page with:
      The type of submission (talk or panel);
      The title or topic; and
      The name(s) of the speaker or panel chair and probable
      panelists, with their organizational affiliation(s), telephone
      and FAX numbers, postal address, and Internet electronic mail
      address.
2)  A brief biography of each participant.
3)  The time desired for the talk or panel.

Talk proposals must also include an abstract that is a maximum of 600 
words in length. Papers are not required, but if included as an addendum, 
will be used as supplementary information for the evaluation of the talk 
proposal. The program committee will allocate each accepted presenter 
either a 15 or 30-minute slot for the talk, based on the complexity and 
interest of the proposed topic and the wishes of the speaker. The 
presenter will be informed the slot length when notified of acceptance.

Panel proposals must also include a description that is a maximum of 300 
words, the format of the presentation, and short rationale for the panel. 
The program committee will allocate accepted panel sessions one to 
two-hour time slots, based on the complexity and interest of the proposed 
topic, the number of panelists, and the wishes of the panel chair. The 
panel chair will be informed the slot length when notified of acceptance.

All proposals must be in English. Plan to give all panels and talks in 
English. 

We must receive all proposals before June 15, 1998. We strongly prefer 
they be submitted by e-mail to raid98@zurich.ibm.com. Various formats 
(ASCII, postscript, Word, WordPro, Framemaker, and LaTex) are acceptable. 
If necessary, hardcopy proposals may be sent to: 

Marc Dacier
Global Security Analysis Lab
IBM Zurich Research Laboratory
Saeumerstrasse 4
CH-8803 Rueschlikon
Switzerland

Each submission will be acknowledged by e-mail.  If acknowledgment is not 
received within seven days, please contact the one of the General 
Co-Chairs.

A preliminary program will be available at the RAID web site
(http://www.zurich.ibm.com/~dac/RAID98) by August 1, 1998.

CORPORATE SPONSORS
******************

We solicit interested organizations to contribute to student travel 
expenses for RAID 98. Corporate sponsorship will cost 2500 US$, and will 
entitle the organization to four general attendance workshop passes. 
Please contact a General Co-Chair for more information.
 
REGISTRATION
************

Registration will open on 1 August 1998, at which point detailed 
registration information (including a list of recommended hotels) will be 
provided at the RAID 98 web site (http://www.zurich.ibm.com/~dac/RAID98). 
Travel instructions to Louvain-la-Neuve are available at 
http://www.dice.ucl.ac.be/crypto/acces-lln.html (courtesy of the UCL 
Crypto Group). Registration will close on 21 August 1998. Late 
registration will continue until 4 September 1998, but only on a 
space-available basis, and will include a penalty of 50 US$ (in addition 
to the fees specified below). 

Fees will be levied on a sliding scale, as follows:

Student: $200
Speaker or Panel Member: 250 US$
General attendance: 350 US$

This fee will include workshop sessions, banquet, hosted reception, 
luncheons, light breakfast service, and coffee and refreshment breaks. 
There will be no special rate for one-day or other limited attendance. 
Payment in full will be required at registration. 

We are negotiating a registration discount for those attending both the 
ESORICS conference and the RAID or CARDIS workshops, and for 
interchangeable workshop registration. Further information will be 
available when detailed registration information is posted.

PROCEEDINGS
***********

On-line workshop proceedings will be posted on the RAID web site
(http://www.zurich.ibm.com/~dac/RAID98) immediately following the workshop. 
It will include:

1)	The final program;
2)	A list of corporate sponsors;
3)	A list of attendees (subject to each attendee's approval);
4)	The submitted abstract and slides used by each speaker;
5)	The submitted description and rationale for each panel;
6)	The slides used by each panelist; and,
7)	Written position statements from each panelist.

In addition, the most outstanding workshop participants will be invited to 
submit an analogous formal paper to a special RAID edition of the refereed 
journal "Computer Networks and ISDN Systems."

IMPORTANT DATES
***************

Deadline for submission: 15 June 1998 
Registration opens: 1 August 1998
Notification of proposal acceptance or rejection: 1 August 1998
Preliminary program posted to web: 1 August 1998
Registration closes: 21 August 1998
Late registration closes: 4 September 1998
Workshop: 14-15 September 1998

MORE INFORMATION
****************

For further information contact one of the General Co-chairs: 

Marc Dacier 
IBM Zurich Research Laboratory 
Switzerland 
E-mail: dac@zurich.ibm.com 
Tel.: +41-1-724-85-62 
Fax.: +41-1-724-89-53 
                                         
Kathleen Jackson
Los Alamos National Laboratory
USA
E-mail: kaj@lanl.gov
Tel.: +41-1-724-86-29
Fax.: +41-1-724-89-53

The RAID 98 web site: http://www.zurich.ibm.com/~dac/RAID98,

The ESORICS 98 web site: http://www.dice.ucl.ac.be/esorics98. 

The CARDIS 98 web site: http://www.dice.ucl.ac.be/cardis98/ 







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jean-Jacques Quisquater 
Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 06:15:02 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: CARDIS 98: smart card research
Message-ID: <199806031314.PAA10742@ns1.dice.ucl.ac.be>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


CARDIS Conference Announcement

Final Call for Papers and Panels

-------------------------------------------------------------
THIRD SMART CARD RESEARCH AND ADVANCED APPLICATION CONFERENCE

SEPTEMBER 14-16, 1998

UCL, LOUVAIN-LA-NEUVE, BELGIUM
------------------------------------------------------------

Aims and Goals

Smart cards, or IC cards, offer a huge potential for information processing
purposes. The portability and processing power of IC cards allow for highly
secure conditional access and reliable distributed information systems.
There are IC cards available that can perform highly sophisticated cryptographic
computations. The applicability of IC cards is currently limited mainly
by our imagination; the information processing power that can be gained
by using IC cards remains as yet mostly untapped and is not well understood.
Here lies a vast uncovered research area which we are only beginning to
assess, and which will have a great impact on the eventual success of the
technology. The research challenges range from electrical engineering on
the hardware side to tailor-made cryptographic applications on the software
side, and their synergies.

Many currently existing events are mainly devoted to commercial and
application aspects of IC cards. In contrast, the CARDIS conferences aim
to bring together researchers who are active in all aspects of the design
of IC cards and related devices and environments, such as to stimulate
synergy between different research communities and to offer a platform
for presenting the latest research advances.

CARDIS 1994, sponsored by the International Federation for Information
Processing (IFIP), held in November 1994 in Lille, France, successfully
brought together representatives from leading IC research centers from
all over the world. CARDIS 1996 was the second occasion for the IC
card community in this permanent activity. CARDIS 1996 was organized jointly
by the Centre for Mathematics and Computer Science at Amsterdam (CWI) and
the Department of Logic and Computer Science of the University of Amsterdam
(UvA).

Organization

General Chair
              Catherine Rouyer (UCL, Louvain-la-Neuve, Belgium)

Program Chairs
              Jean-Jacques Quisquater (UCL, Louvain-la-Neuve, Belgium)
              Bruce Schneier (Counterpane, USA)

Program Committee (in construction)
              William Caelli  (QUT, Brisbane, Australia) 
              Vincent Cordonnier  (R2DP, Lille, France) 
              David Chan  (HP Labs, Bristol, UK) 
              Jean-François Dhem (Belgacom, Belgium) 
              J. Eloff  (RAU, South Africa) 
              Marc Girault  (CNET, France) 
              Louis Guillou  (CNET, France) 
              Pieter Hartel  (Southampton, UK and Amsterdam, The Netherlands) 
              Peter Honeyman  (Michigan U., USA) 
              Pierre Paradinas  (Gemplus, France) 
              Qiang  (Acad. Sciences, Beijing, China) 
              Michel Ugon (Bull CP-8, France) 
              Doug Tygar  (Carnegie-Mellon Univ., USA) 
              Anthony Watson  (ECU, Perth, Australia) 
              Wijang Zhang  (Shangai, China) 

Steering Committee Chair
              Vincent Cordonnier (Rd2p, Lille, France)

Local Organization
              Catherine Rouyer (UCL)
              Benoit Macq (UCL)

SUBMISSIONS
Submissions will be judged on relevance, originality, significance,
correctness, and clarity. Each paper should explain its contribution
in both general and technical terms, identifying what has been
accomplished, saying why it is significant, and comparing it with
previous work. Authors should make every effort to make the technical
content of their papers understandable to a broad audience. Papers
should be written in English. Working papers, research in progress 
are welcome. 

Authors should submit: an extended abstract (more or less 5 pages) either 
by email to jjq@dice.ucl.ac.be (we prefer the electronic submission) 
using one of the following formats: postscript, rtf, latex or word 6. 

or send 12 copies of the paper to 

     Jean-Jacques Quisquater 
     UCL/DICE 
     Place du Levant, 3 
     B-1348 Louvain-la-Neuve 
     Belgium

The paper should be formatted using the LNCS format from Springer-Verlag, if possible. 

In any case, each paper should be accompanied by information 
submitted via email to jjq@dice.ucl.ac.be that consists of: 

* a single postal address and electronic mail address for communication 
* complete title, author and affiliation information 
* the abstract of the paper 
* a small selection of the keywords that appear on this call for 
  papers, which best describes the contribution of the paper 

Preproceedings will be available at the conference. It is intended to 
publish the proceedings in the Springer-Verlag LNCS series. Authors of 
accepted papers may be expected to sign a copyright release form. 

IMPORTANT DATES

Submission deadline        June 15, 1998
Acceptance notification    July 15, 1998
Camera ready paper due     Augustus 15, 1998
Conference                 September 14-16 1998

THEMES

Technology/hardware
  IC architecture and techniques
  Memories and processor design
  Read/Write unit engineering
  Specific co-processors for cryptography
  Biometry
  Communication technologies
  Interfaces with the user, the service
suppliers
  Reliability and fault tolerance
  Special devices
  Standards
Software
  The operating system, Java, ...
  Models of data management
  Communication protocols
IC Card design
  Tools for internal or external software production
  Validation and verification
  Methodology for application design
Electronic payment systems
  Road pricing
  Internet payment systems
  Untraceability
Algorithms
  Formal specification and validation
  Identification
  Authentication
  Cryptographic protocols for IC cards
  Complexity
Security
  Models and schemes of security
  Security interfaces
  Hardware and software implementation
  Security of information systems including cards
  Formal verification of transaction sets
  Protocol verification
IC Cards, individuals and the society
  IC cards and privacy
  Owner access of data
  IC cards: political and economical aspects
  Is the IC card going to change legislation?
  Patents, copyrights
Future of IC cards
  Innovative technologies
  Moving towards the pocket intelligence
  Convergence with portable PCs, lap tops etc ...
  PCMCIA
Innovative applications
  Design methodology of applications
  IC cards and the information system
  Examples of new applications
  Requirements for innovative cards
Standards
  Emerging standards
  Compliance and approval




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: SMODeLUX@aol.com
Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 14:12:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [E-WRESTLING]  New fed that's superior to all others ...
Message-ID: <4abf174c.3575b995@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


   b r u t e   f o r c e   w r e s t l i n g         .
............................................................

BFW HANDBOOK
Last Revised: 4.22.98

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
     BFW INTRODUCTION:
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-          
 
	Screw organization with those "preppy handbooks," Screw the weenies
that take e-Wrestling seriously, and screw the critics.  Do you think you're a
tough guy?  Are you _brutal_?  Are you sure?  You can't be sure unless you
strut your stuff in the paragon of e-Wrestling fun, the BFW (Brute Force
Wrestling).  

	We don't really care what all the other fed heads think, and we're
going to approach this federation a little differently.  No longer will you
see the 20k BORING as hell matches, we're going to keep them short, with the
occasional overdrive.  Now let me ask you, do you REALLY see 55 minute
matches 
on regular broadcasts such as RAW or Nitro?  I don't.  Maybe on a PPV, but
we'll
stretch our matches on PPVs a little.  Anywhoo, what will this short match
process result in?  Fewer late cards, I know you all love that.  

	What else will make this fed fun?  We'll give magazines instead of 
updates, updates usually just have the same stuff anyway.  In fact, I
always skip 
to the rankings when I read an update.  We'll show you a good product with our
magazine.  In-depth articles, and must-read writing.  Do you think you're
up for 
it?  If so, fill out this application form, but remember, we can only fit
20 singles 
wrestler's and 10 tags on our roster.

But beware... those who enter shall never leave... for they will be
engulfed in
fun and excitement, and they'll never even shed the thought of leaving!

Thanks,
    Sean and Chris


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
      BFW ROLEPLAYING:
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- 

	BFW is a booked wrestling league, meaning that you roleplay to win matches. 
We do not use TNM, WLS, or any other simulator. All matches are hand
written for the 
most exciting action anywhere.

	The only rule for roleplaying is that you must do it often. If you don't
roleplay for a month, you're history. We may keep you around as a scrub and
job the
hell out of you, ruining your reputation. We may also just kick you out of
the fed
completely.


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
       BFW SPECIFICS:
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- 

Headquarters:    BFW Arena in Salt Lake City, Utah

       Cards:    House shows (Quick Result Report sent out weekly)
                 Tuesday's televised show, BFW Tuesday Tap-Out
                 Friday's televised show, BFW Friday Fright Night
                 Monthly Pay-Per-View events

      Titles:    BFW World Heavy-Weight Champion
                 BFW World Tag Team Champions
                 BFW Network Champion
 
              
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
      BFW APPLICATION
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- 

 ========================
 YOUR INFORMATION:
 Hey, we can get to know ya.
 ========================

 YOUR NAME - 
 YOUR AGE - (optional)

 ========================
 WRESTLER'S INFORMATION:
 Duh!
 ========================

 WRESTLER'S NAME -

 ALLIGNMENT - (heel/face/neutral)
 
 WRESTLER'S HEIGHT - (nothing above 7", please)
 WRESTLER'S WEIGHT - (nothing extraordinary here, either)
 
 WRESTLER'S LOOKS - (breif description here.  Add in attire)
 
 WRESTLER'S HISTORY - (Who, what, where, why, when?)

 TWENTY MOVES YOUR WRESTLER APPLIES -
 
 YOUR WRESTLER'S FINISHING MANEUVER - 
 
 DESCRIBE IT - (it doesn't have to be TOO complex)
 
 YOUR WRESTLER'S MANAGER - (optional)
 
 YOUR WRESTLER'S THEME MUSIC - (nothing other than music done by real
 musicians, no real wrestler music)

 ========================
 TAG TEAM INFORMATION
 (Optional)
 ========================

 NAME OF TAG TEAM - 
 WHO DOES HE TAG WITH? -
 TAG TEAM FINISHER - 
 DESCRIBE IT - 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: roy26@prodigy.com
Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 17:41:19 -0700 (PDT)
To: andy@megahardcore.com
Subject: Awesome!
Message-ID: <199805190417.AAA07146@rly-zb04.mx.aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
This is intended for adults.  If you are under 18, or viewing these materials is illegal where
you live, please delete this now.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

AWESOME!

http://www.pornsitez.com/hardcore/xxxmovies/

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Sprokkit Amhal" 
Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 12:36:43 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: anonymous mailboxes
Message-ID: <19980604193606.27765.qmail@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


   Some time ago I heard about Lucky Green's then-immature scheme for 
anonymous email boxes, whereby a user can receive email and even a 
traffic analysis attacker is unable to glean information about who 
received what when.  I forget exactly what ve called vis method...




   Is there a paper available anyplace?

   Has the scheme been validated mathematically?

   Has it been implemented?




    ::sprokkit::

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Doris Woods 
Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 12:14:22 -0700 (PDT)
To: "William H. Geiger III" 
Subject: Re: Kirtland Air Force Base
In-Reply-To: <199806012257.RAA019.42@geiger.com>
Message-ID: <3576F1BE.BA662E1B@idt.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


William H. Geiger III wrote:
> 
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> 
> In <35732427.ECA43EB9@idt.net>, on 06/01/98
>    at 05:59 PM, Doris Woods  said:
> 
> >Hi all,
> 
> >bill payne wrote:
> >>
> >> Saturday 5/30/98 5:15 PM
> 
> >> Masanori, the book Decision to Use the Atomic Bomb by Gar Alperovitz
> >> presents fairly good evidence some in US government nuked Hiroshima and
> >> Nagasaki merely to impress the Russians.
> >>
> 
> >Carroll Quigley said in Tragedy and Hope...  they were worried the war
> >would be over with before they got their chance to use it!
> 
> Was this before or after they estimated that it would cost upwards of 1
> Million lives to take the Japan mainland by conventional forces?
> 
> - --



Well... a Leo Szilard web site ( How do you say it? Say sil'-ahrd.)
has an article where he is interviewed titled

_Leo Szilard, Interview: President Truman Did Not Understand_

http://www.peak.org/~danneng/decision/usnews.html

"After all, Japan was suing for peace."

"Today I would say that the confusion arose from considering the fake 
alternatives of either having to invade Japan or of having to use the
bomb against her cities."


I admit I only followed a link from Home Page of J. Orlin Grabbe 
titled...

_Target Committee Meeting, Los Alamos, May 10-11, 1945_

to get to that particular story. 


Of more particular interest to myself is the shipment of 65% uranium
oxide,
sent from the Belgian Congo, in 1939-40. 1250 tons were sent to 
Staten Island, NY, by Edward Sengier of Union Miniere, to prevent the
Axis powers from obtaining it. p 852.

It is a _good_ book. I enjoyed it.


Doris Woods




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 19:10:35 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Spamford's new business venture
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980604155141.008fc6f0@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Seems Spamford has found yet another way to Make M0ney 0n the Net -
as an expert witness for people suing spammers.
The paper said he'll be working for the law firm that nailed
him with a $2M case earlier this year.

Sigh.....
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 14:12:59 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: NIST Publishes Draft FIPS for FKMI
Message-ID: <199806042112.RAA12886@camel14.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


The NIST Technical Advisory Committee has published its final 
draft for a FIPS for the Federal Key Management Infrastructure 
and a letter from the chairman to the Secretary of Commerce 
on the completion of the task in preparation for the final
meeting of the committee June 17-19:

   http://csrc.nist.gov/tacdfipsfkmi/ 

under the "June 1998" section

We offer mirrors of the drafts:

   http://jya.com/nist-fkmi.htm  (chairman's letter)

   http://jya.com/FIPS698.txt  (the FIPS, 222K)




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Max Inux 
Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 19:25:01 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Meetings and PGP 6.0
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Now that Network General and Network Associates (McAfee) have merged
(business wise aswell as buildings), I was wondering where the CypherPunks
meetings are going to be at the old netgen building or the new (BIG)
Network Associates (netass.com) building?  And is it still gonna be at 12
on the second saturday of the month? (seeing as this saturday(first) is
the NAI company picnic).

And, has anyone here played with PGP 6.0 (still in developement).  I hope
they do more changes in the final, Photo ID's and the misc other changes.

Thanks, Billy

-- Max Inux (MaxInux@bigfoot.com) UIN: 207447, http://khercs.dyn.ml.org
Strong Cryptography makes the world a safer place- PGP: 0x5CCFCA59
Or Kinky sex makes the world go round- Christie: Your in my sig too
^^ If Cryptography is outlawed,  only outlaws will have cryptography ^^

 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Lucky Green 
Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 14:10:55 -0700 (PDT)
To: Sprokkit Amhal 
Subject: Re: anonymous mailboxes
In-Reply-To: <19980604193606.27765.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


It was not my scheme. I simply gave a presentation at HIP of a system that
was designed by a person wishing to remain anonymous.

Much of the design has changed since. I am not at liberty to discuss
futher details. The original presentation in MS
PowerPoint format is still sitting at
http://www.cypherpunks.to/~shamrock/anonmail.ppt

I have no plans to update or convert this particular presentation.

On Thu, 4 Jun 1998, Sprokkit Amhal wrote:

>    Some time ago I heard about Lucky Green's then-immature scheme for 
> anonymous email boxes, whereby a user can receive email and even a 
> traffic analysis attacker is unable to glean information about who 
> received what when.  I forget exactly what ve called vis method...
> 
> 
> 
> 
>    Is there a paper available anyplace?
> 
>    Has the scheme been validated mathematically?
> 
>    Has it been implemented?
> 
> 
> 
> 
>     ::sprokkit::
> 
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> 
> 


-- Lucky Green  PGP v5 encrypted email preferred.
   "Tonga? Where the hell is Tonga? They have Cypherpunks there?"





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Jean-Francois Avon" 
Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 22:28:27 -0700 (PDT)
To: "jf_avon@citenet.net>
Subject: Fwd: NEWS - NRA Charles Heston speech
Message-ID: <199806050537.BAA14762@cti06.citenet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


==================BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE==================
>Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 09:50:22 +0930
>From: SSAA 
>Subject: NEWS - NRA Charles Heston speech
>Organization: Sporting Shooters Association of Australia

Speech by National Rifle Association First Vice President Charlton
Heston Delivered at the Free Congress Foundation's 20th Anniversary Gala

December 7, 1997 

I like it when the party of Lincoln honors our free heritage. This
nation has been blessed by the minds and mettle of many good people, and
indeed Abe was among the best. A man of great moral character... a trait
often lacking among our leaders. This is disturbing, but not without
remedy. One good election can correct such ills.

Above all, I hope those of us gathered here tonight have more in common
with Mr. Lincoln than just party affiliation. Better that we grasp a
common vision than simply wear the cloak. Even our President pretends to
be a conservative when it suits him. We must be more than that.

I know, I know... it is not easy. Imagine being point man for the
National Rifle Association, preserving the right to keep and bear arms.
Well, I ran for office, I was elected, and now I serve... as a moving
target for pundits who've called me everything from "ridiculous" and
"duped" to a "brain-injured, senile, crazy old man."

Well, I guess that goes with the territory. But as I've stood in the
cross hairs of those who aim at Second Amendment freedom, I've realized
that guns are not the only issue, and I am not the only target. It is
much, much bigger than that  which is what I want to talk to you about.

I have come to realize that a cultural war is raging across our land...
storming our values, assaulting our freedoms, killing our 
self-confidence in who we are and what we believe, where we come from.

How many of you here own a gun? A show of hands?

How many own two or more guns?

Thank you. I wonder how many of you in this room own guns but chose not
to raise your hand? 

How many of you considered revealing your conviction about a
constitutional right, but then thought better of it?

Then you are a victim of the cultural war. You are a casualty of the
cultural warfare being waged against traditional American freedom of
beliefs and ideas.
Now maybe you don't care one way or the other about owning a gun. But I
could've asked for a show of hands on Pentecostal Christians, or
pro-lifers, or right-to-workers, or Promise Keepers, or school
voucher-ers, and the result would be the same. What if the same question
were asked at your PTA meeting? Would you raise your hand if Dan Rather
were in the back of the room there with a film crew?

See? Good. Still, if you didn't, you have been assaulted and robbed of
the courage of your convictions. Your pride in who you are, and what you
believe, has been ridiculed, ransacked, plundered. It may be a war
without bullet or bloodshed, but with just as much liberty lost: You and
your country are less free.

And you are not inconsequential people! You in this room, whom many
would say are among the most powerful people on earth, you are shamed
into silence!
Because you embrace a view at odds with the cultural warlords. If that
is the outcome of cultural war, and you are the victims, I can only ask
the gravely obvious question: What'll become of the right itself? Or
other rights not deemed acceptable by the thought police? What other
truth in your heart will you disavow with your hand?

I remember when European Jews feared to admit their faith. The Nazis
forced them to wear six-pointed yellow stars sewn on their chests as
identity badges. It worked. So what color star will they pin on our
coats? How will the self- styled elite tag us? There may not be a
Gestapo officer on every street corner yet, but the influence on our
culture is just as pervasive. 
Now, I am not really here to talk about the Second Amendment or the NRA,
but the gun issue clearly brings into focus the war that's going on.

Rank-and-file Americans wake up every morning, increasingly bewildered
and confused at why their views make them lesser citizens. After enough
breakfast- table TV promos hyping tattooed sex-slaves on the next Rikki
Lake show, enough gun-glutted movies and tabloid talk shows, enough
revisionist history books and prime-time ridicule of religion, enough of
the TV anchor who cocks her pretty head, clucks her tongue and sighs
about guns causing crime and finally the message gets through: Heaven
help the God-fearing, law-abiding, Caucasian, middle class, Protestant,
or even worse Evangelical Christian, Midwest, or Southern, or even
worse rural, apparently straight, or even worse admittedly
heterosexual, gun-owning or even worse NRA-card-carrying, average
working stiff, or even worse male working stiff, because not only don't
you count, you're a downright obstacle to social progress. Your tax
dollars may be just as delightfully green as you hand them over, but
your voice requires a lower decibel level, your opinion is less
enlightened, your media access is insignificant, and frankly mister, you
need to wake up, wise up and learn a little something about your new
America...in fact, why don't you just sit down and shut up?

That's why you don't raise your hand. That's how cultural war works. And
you are losing.

That's what happens when a generation of media, educators, entertainers
and politicians, led by a willing president, decide the America they
were born into isn't good enough any more. So they contrive to change it
through the cultural warfare of class distinction. Ask the Romans if
powerful nations have ever fallen as a result of cultural division.
There are ruins around the world that were once the smug centers of
small-minded, arrogant elitism. It appears that rather than evaporate in
the flash of a split atom, we may succumb to a divided culture.

Although my years are long, I was not on hand to help pen the Bill of
Rights. And popular assumptions aside, the same goes for the Ten
Commandments. Yet as an American and as a man who believes in God's
almighty power, I treasure both.

The Constitution was handed down to guide us by a bunch of those wise
old dead white guys who invented this country. Now, some flinch when I
say that. Why?
It's true...they were white guys. So were most of the guys who died in
Lincoln's name opposing slavery in the 1860s. So why should I be ashamed
of white guys? Why is "Hispanic pride" or "black pride" a good thing,
while "white pride" conjures up shaved heads and white hoods? Why was
the Million Man March on Washington celebrated in the media as progress,
while the Promise Keepers March on Washington was greeted with suspicion
and ridicule? I'll tell you why: Cultural warfare.

Now, Chuck Heston can get away with saying I'm proud of those wise old
dead white guys because Jesse Jackson and Louie Farrakhan know I fought
in their cultural war. I was one of the first white soldiers in the
civil rights movement in 1961, long before it was fashionable in
Hollywood believe me or in Washington for that matter. In 1963 I marched
on Washington with Dr. Martin Luther King to uphold the Bill of Rights.
I'm very proud of that. As vice- president of the NRA I am doing the
same thing.

But you don't see many other Hollywood luminaries speaking out on this
one, do you? It's not because there aren't any. It's because they can't
afford the heat. They dare not speak up for fear of CNN or the IRS or
SAG or the ATF or NBC or even W-J-C. It saps the strength of our country
when the personal price is simply too high to stand up for what you
believe in. Today, speaking with the courage of your conviction can be
so costly, the price of principle so high, that legislators won't lead
so citizens can't follow, and so there is no army to fight back. That's
cultural warfare.

For instance: It's plain that our Constitution guarantees law-abiding
citizens the right to own a firearm. But if I stand up and say so, why
does the media assault me with such a slashing, sinister brand of
derision filled with hate?

Because Bill Clinton's cultural warriors want a penitent cleansing of
firearms, as if millions of lawful gun owners should genuflect in shame
and seek absolution by surrendering their guns. That's what is now
literally happening in England and Australia, of course. Lines long
lines of submissive citizens, threatened with imprisonment, are
bitterly, reluctantly surrendering family heirlooms, guns that won their
freedom, to the blast furnace. If that fact doesn't unsettle you, then
you are already anesthetized, a ready victim of the cultural war.

You know, I think, that I stand first in line in defense of free speech.
But those who speak against the perverted and profane should be given as
much due as those who profit by it. You also know I welcome cultural
diversity. But those who choose to live on the fringe should not tear
apart the seams that secure the fabric of our society.

Now I've earned a fine and rewarding living in the motion picture
industry, yet increasingly I find myself embarrassed by the dearth of
conscience that drives the world's most influential art form. And I'm an
example of what a lonely undertaking that can be.

Nobody opposed the obscene rapper Ice-T until I stood at Time-Warner's
stockholders meeting and was ridiculed by its president for wanting to
take the floor to read Ice-T's lyrics. Since I held several hundred
shares of stock he had no choice, though the media were barred. I read
those lyrics to a stunned audience of average American people the
stockholders who were shocked at the lyrics that advocating killing
cops, sexually abusing women, and raping the nieces of our
Vice-President. True, the good guys won that time though:
Time-Warner fired Ice-T.

The gay and lesbian movement is another good example. Many homosexuals
are hugely talented artists and executives... also dear friends. I don't
despise their lifestyle, though I don't share it. As long as gay and
lesbian Americans are as productive, law-abiding and private as the rest
of us, I think America owes them absolute tolerance. It's the right
thing to do.

But on the other hand, I find my blood pressure rising when Clinton's
cultural shock troops participate in homosexual-rights fund-raisers but
boycott gun- rights fund-raisers... and then claim it's time to place
homosexual men in tents with Boy Scouts, and suggest that sperm donor
babies born into lesbian relationships are somehow better served and
more loved.

Such demands have nothing to do with equality. They're about the
currency of cultural war money and votes and the Clinton camp will let
anyone in the tent if there's a donkey on his hat, or a check in the
mail or some yen in the fortune cookie.

Mainstream America is depending on you counting on you to draw your
sword and fight for them. These people have precious little time or
resources to battle misguided Cinderella attitudes, the fringe
propaganda of the homosexual coalition, the feminists who preach that
it's a divine duty for women to hate men, blacks who raise a militant
fist with one hand while they seek preference with the other, and all
the New-Age apologists for juvenile crime, who see roving gangs as a
means of youthful expression, sex as a means of adolescent
merchandising, violence as a form of entertainment for impressionable
minds, and gun bans as a means to lord-knows-what. We've reached that
point in time when our national social policy originates on Oprah. I say
it's time to pull the plug.

Americans should not have to go to war every morning for their values.
They already go to war for their families. They fight to hold down a
job, raise responsible kids, make their payments, keep gas in the car,
put food on the table and clothes on their backs, and still save a
little for their final days in dignity. They prefer the America they
built - where you could pray without feeling naive, love without being
kinky, sing without profanity, be white without feeling guilty, own a
gun without shame, and raise your hand without apology. They are the
critical masses who find themselves under siege and are
long for you to get some guts, stand on principle and lead them to
victory in this cultural war.

Now all this sounds a little Mosaic, the punch-line of my sermon is as
elementary as the Golden Rule. In a cultural war, triumph belongs to
those who arm themselves with pride in who they are and then do the
right thing. Not the most expedient thing, not the politically correct
thing, not what'll sell, but the right thing.

And you know what? Everybody already knows what the right thing is. You,
and I, President Clinton, even Ice-T, we all know. It's easy. You say
wait a minute, you take a long look in the mirror, then into the eyes of
your kids, your grandchildren, and you'll know what's right.

Don't run for cover when the cultural cannons roar. Remember who you are
and what you believe, and then raise your hand, stand up, and speak out.
Don't be shamed or startled into lockstep conformity by seemingly
powerful people. The maintenance of a free nation is a long, slow,
steady process. And it is in your hands.

Yes, we can have rules and still have rebels that's democracy. But as
leaders you must we must do as Lincoln would do, confronted with the
stench of cultural war: Do what's right. As Mr. Lincoln said, "With
firmness in the right, as God gives us to see the right, let us finish
the work we are in... and then we shall save our country."

Defeat the criminals and their apologists, oust the biased and bigoted,
endure the undisciplined and unprincipled, but disavow the
self-appointed social engineers whose relentless arrogance fuels this
vicious war against so much we hold so dear. Do not yield, do not
divide, do not call a truce. Be fair, but fight back.

It's the same blueprint our founding fathers left to guide us. Our
enemies see it as the senile prattle of an archaic society. I still
honor it as the United States Constitution, and that timeless document
we call the Bill of Rights.

Freedom is our fortune and honor is our saving grace.

Thank you.


===================END FORWARDED MESSAGE===================


Jean-Francois Avon, B.Sc. Physics, Montreal, Canada
  JFA Technologies, R&D physicists & engineers
  Instrumentation & control, LabView programming.
PGP keys: http://bs.mit.edu:8001/pks-toplev.html
PGP ID:C58ADD0D:529645E8205A8A5E F87CC86FAEFEF891 
PGP ID:5B51964D:152ACCBCD4A481B0 254011193237822C






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSqncrs@aol.com
Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 23:23:39 -0700 (PDT)
To: Cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: NEWS - NRA Charles Heston speech
Message-ID: <93c4594e.35778eca@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


McVeigh is alot better than Heston (at lying-type propaganda.  I couldn't even
call McVeigh's "lying-type."  It was filled with MUCH more fact than Heston's
speech.)

The glaring over-all problem I see with his speech, is his hypocracy when it
comes to the 1st amendment (yea, I know he *claimed* to be a 1st amendments
rights supporter, BUT his actions (the rest of the speech) counters that
claim.)

Here's why they want to remove our freedom of speech.  It's because - dig this
Cypherpunks - 'The pen is mightier than the sword.'  If they take away our
ability to speak, and they keep their silly guns, guess what.  Then they have
the more powerful weapon.  And dig this - yes it IS that simple.

Stan




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 02:48:16 -0700 (PDT)
To: Max Inux 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980605022508.00952530@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 08:25 PM 6/4/98 -0700, Max Inux wrote:
>Now that Network General and Network Associates (McAfee) have merged
>(business wise aswell as buildings), I was wondering where the CypherPunks
>meetings are going to be at the old netgen building or the new (BIG)
>Network Associates (netass.com) building?  And is it still gonna be at 12
>on the second saturday of the month? (seeing as this saturday(first) is
>the NAI company picnic).

Cypherpunks meeting is almost always at the same time,
but often changes locations, depending on the availability of meeting places
and the whims of the organizers :-)  This month, we'll be meeting in
Berkeley, and as usual I'd appreciate anybody suggesting topics
they'd like to talk about there.

				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: netcenter-news@netscape.com
Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 03:15:03 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: Netcenter News - Volume 7
Message-ID: <199806051014.DAA03401@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


  
 

Title: Netscape Netcenter News - May 1998






































Welcome to Netcenter
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Netscape respects your online time and Internet privacy. If you would prefer not to receive future issues, click here to to send an unsubscribe email or reply to this message with the word unsubscribe in the subject line.




Copyright (c) 1998. Netscape Communications Corporation. All rights reserved.
























From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: waekualo98@msn.com (                                                                        )
Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 04:45:54 -0700 (PDT)
To: waekualo98@msn.com
Subject: L@@KING FOR A FRIEND or LOVER!! NOT A SEX SITE!!
Message-ID: <199806051210ZAA212@emal2.net-serv.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 
Date: Sun, 7 Jun 1998 19:23:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Do you need extra money
Message-ID: <51603356@teleport.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 08:21:31 -0700 (PDT)
To: kalliste@aci.net>
Subject: twa 800, semiconductors & internet, polyforth & Java
Message-ID: <35780C56.4E5C@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Friday 6/5/98 9:11 AM

J Orlin Grabbe

Albuquerque Journal w 6/3/98

  TWA 800 Explosion Not on 'High Seas'

  NEW YORK - A judge said Tuesday that the TWA 800 explosion did not
occur on the "high seas," a
  ruling that could make victim eligible for additional money in their
lawsuit. against the       airline and the aircraft manufacturers. ...

http://www.aci.net/kalliste/navy800.htm and other electronic articles on
TWA 800 at http://www.aci.net/kalliste/

Albuquerque Journal f 6/5/98

  Motorola To Cut 15,000 Jobs

  No Word of Impact In Albuquerque

  The Associated Press
  CHICAGO -  Motorola Inc., struggling to weather the Asian economic
crisis, said  
  Thursday it is  eliminating 15,000 jobs over the coming 12 months.
  Profits plunged 45 percent to !180 million ...

But in the same issue

  Chip Sales Expected to Rebound

  Semiconductor Group Predicts Double-Digit Growth in 1999

  The Associated Press

  SAN JOSE, Calif.  Asia's weak economies, a slow-down in personal
computer sales and 
  an overabundance of memory chips will push own semiconductor sales
nearly 2 percent this
  year, according to an industry group.
    But those troubles are expected to ease in the second half of 1998,
boosting sales and       returning the industry to double-digit growth
next year and beyond, the Semiconductor Industry   Association said. 
    "Thanks to the unprecedented growth of Internet usage, we now expect
the industry's       expansion to occur in 1999 as semiconductor growth
rates return to their historical averages    of 17 percent or more,"
said SIA president George Scalise. ...

John Young

Albuquerque Journal f 6/5/98

  India, Pakistan Nuke Claims Exaggerated, Scientists Say
  By David S. Cloud
  Chicago Tribune
  WASHINGTON -  American scientists monitoring remote sites where India
and Pakistan detonated    nucleardevices sharply question public claims
by both nations about the size and number of      weapons tested.
    Scientists examining seismic data on the tests, picked up at
monitoring stations around the   globe, say that both India and Pakistan
have exaggerated the explosive power of the       detonations and
perhaps even the total number of devices tested.  The Clinton
administration    has similar doubts about the claims by the South Asian
rivals.
    Pakistani officials apparently disconnect a seismic monitor that
would have given outsiders   more precise data about their tests.  And
two nuclear devices that India claimed to have set    off were not
detected by a single  known seismic monitor station anywhere in the
world. ...
    The gap between the claims and the seismic data suggests that the
test may not have gone as   well as each side announced, said experts
interviewed by the Chicago Tribune.
    The discrepancies in monitoring data prove ammunition for some
critics of an international    test-ban treaty. These critics argue that
the lack of data for India's announced second round   of nuclear weapons
tests calls into question whether clandestine nuclear test can be    
accurately monitored. ...

Jim Durham, Sandia's seismic CTBT project leader
http://jya.com/da/whpda.htm, told me that the coupling [impendance
match?] between the bomb and the surrounding ground had much to do with
what a seismic station receives.

Lastly, and what I think is the most important, Albuquerque Journal f
6/5/98

  USS Yorktown Found
  Explorer Located Titanic Wreck

  By Randolph E. Schmidt

  The Associated Press

  WASHINGTON -  Three miles under water, the USS Yorktown's four-barrel
anti-aircraft gun still   aims skyward 56 years after the aircraft
carrier went to the bottom of the Pacific Ocean, a     victim of the
Battle of Midway.
    Photos and video of the giant ship, sitting upright on the ocean
floor, were unveiled       Thursday by Robert Ballard, the undersea
explorer who found the wrecks of the Titanic and the   German battleship
Bismarck.

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/features/98/midway/ 

REASON is that Ballard uses PolyForth 

  http://av.yahoo.com/bin/query?p=polyforth&z=2&hc=0&hs=0

in the submersible robots, Jeff Allsup of Woods Hole told me. 

Allsup downloaded ALL of the code and documentation from my Forth
http://jya.com/f86/whpf86.htm

book from Vesta in Colorado at 1,200 bps. 

Allsup told me this took several days.

This is same software technology  which is used for the US satellite
program. http://groucho.gsfc.nasa.gov/forth/

Java http://www.mrl.nyu.edu/meyer/jvmref/ appears also to be a byte
threaded code
technology.

Let's hope for settlement of the unfortunate matter so that we can all
got on to other constructive projects.

I would like to do some more with  

http://www-hto.usc.edu/software/seqaln/doc/html/gfsr.3.html 

and revise

http://www.apcatalog.com/cgi-bin/AP?ISBN=0125475705&LOCATION=US&FORM=FORM2

for the 80C32 communicating over ieee 1284 ecp to a Windows PC.

Later,
bill






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 19:12:02 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: IP: Uncle Sam is Hooked on Forfeiture (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <19980605092007.3442.qmail@hades.rpini.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980605092233.008e0100@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Somebody, probably Vlad, forwarded this via Swiss Remailer.
I normally try not to reply to Ignition-Points forwards here,
but this one's relevant.  "Access devices" often includes things like
computer passwords as well as smartcards for building entry.
So "Crack a password, lose your computer" would apply
as well as "Crack 15+ passwords, get busted".

I don't know if that was Senator Sleazy's intent with the bill,
but it's an obvious application if not.  Did the bill pass?

>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 16:21:31 -0400
>From: Patricia Neill 
>To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
>Subject: IP: Uncle Sam is Hooked on Forfeiture
>
>  4.Counterfeit Access Devices 
>          S.1148 
>          SPONSOR: Sen D'Amato (introduced 09/04/97) 
>          TITLE(S): 
>          OFFICIAL TITLE AS INTRODUCED: 
>          A bill to amend title 49, United States Code, to require the
>forfeiture of counterfeit access devices and device-making equipment. 
>               "Amends Federal transportation law to declare counterfeit
>access devices and device-making equipment  contraband subject to mandatory
>seizure and forfeiture."
>
>     Well, what are we talking about here? Duplicate key for the apartment?
>What can it be extended to tomorrow, is the real question.

				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 15:19:57 -0700 (PDT)
To: bud@checkmaster.com
Subject: Site Secrets
Message-ID: <35786E62.1452@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Friday 6/5/98 3:49 PM

John Young

NOTHING from the court, DOE or EEOC today.

Good.

I loaded my boat in the back of my truck.

Fishing tomorrow and Sunday at Navajo lake.

Navajo lake is on the Colorado border.

My primary goal is to finish the digital FX.  But I need
a mental health break.

I got kick out of the moralist lecture to schneier@counterpane.com. 
http://www.jya.com/bud-avbsp.htm

I can only imagine "Bud" 's horror when 
he reads about Morales and my genocide, deficient crypto, and crooked
judge lawsuit.

But, of course, we are merely trying to promote settlement of this
UNFORTUNATE matter before something POSSIBLY serious happens.

Settlement progress is reported to our friends at http://www.wpiran.org/
and others in hope it is passed along to the interested.  

Peaceful MONETARY settlement of this UNFORTUNATE matter is clearly in
everyone's best interest.

Thoroughly enjoyed Site Secrets. http://www.jya.com/crypto.htm#site
The Real World again.

Have a good weekend all.
bill






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSqncrs@aol.com
Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 21:46:38 -0700 (PDT)
To: Cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Nobody on Video ;-)
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


It appears the Cypherpunks have infiltrated the FBI and have installed a
survailence camera on one of the agents investigating the Cypherpunks. ;-)
Here's one of them FBI agents tryin' to track you guys down ;-) , check this
out -
http://www.cnbc.com/moreinfo/badday.mpeg

4.5 meg (but worth every byte)

Stan
'Amazing!  How can you tell the dancer from the dance' (Brave Combo - The
Jeffrey)
Visit 'What's A Meta U (and What's It 2U)
http://members.aol.com/WhtsAMetaU/

(Cypherpunks, the Brave Combo's latest studio release ('Group Dance Epidemic -
Fun .... and Functional!' - Rounder Records) is themed on my war with the
Bucketheads that led me to this list.  The cover picture depicts the
Bucketheads (a group of people pretending to be having a good time.)  It was
the leader of the Bucketheads that subscribed me to this list (I'm VERY sure).
The song, 'The Jeffrey', in particular, is all about the 'flame' (as 'they'
call it) war, and based much on some of my posts.  The list is now un-
moderated, and in the control of free persons.  Check out that cd.)




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Global Web Builders 
Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 15:21:29 -0700 (PDT)
To: (Recipient list suppressed)
Subject: Sixty Minutes vs Pauline Hanson
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980605221229.0070d830@mail.pronet.net.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Dear One Nation Supporter in NSW,

PLEASE READ THIS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT MESSAGE and CIRCULATE WIDELY TO ALL YOU
CAN.

In the lead up to the Queensland State and Federal Elections there has been
growing hysteria in the media, major political parties and by minority
groups that "support for Pauline Hanson's One Nation is somehow bad for
Australia".

It should be of no surprise that One Nation has one goal in mind and that is
to bring equity in treatment back to ALL Australians irrespective of colour,
race, or creed. If you read the first sentence again you will see who is
going to 'lose' when divisive policies are removed by One Nation from the
Australian equation.

However, the most divisive force in Australia today is the mainstream media,
carefully controlled by men of enormous wealth who now seek the ultimate
prize, 'power over the politicians who run Australia'.

Many believe that they have already achieved this goal. Many believe that
the support for Pauline Hanson's One Nation  is a direct result of
'populist' Australians (that's you and me) seeing through the deals being
done between the major political parties and the media barons.

Today Australians face a real fight to retain their democratic rights in the
face of the media moguls. This is the 'real' media-hidden war that is being
raged right now with Pauline Hanson being the focus, the enemy. The coming
Queensland state and Federal elections are not over 'race' as the media
would have you believe, they are over our freedom of speech and democracy
which has already being largely destroyed through the concentration of our
media.

Last Tuesday Pauline Hanson raised the issue of 'The Draft Declaration on
the Rights of Indigenous Peoples' in Parliament. 

What followed was the most disgraceful vilification by Howard, Beazley,
supported by the media, of Pauline Hanson, the messenger, while the message
- the potential impact of this treaty on all Australians - was totally ignored.

This vilification was epitomised by the live interview with Ray Martin on
Channel 9's 'A Current Affair' during which he changed the 'rules of
engagement' previously agreed to. The interview was supposed to be about
Pauline's speech in parliament and the ramifications of the UN draft agreement.

A range of links to documents related to Pauline Hanson's speech can be seen at:

http://www.gwb.com.au/un.html

Channel 9 have used these tactics before to secure an interview under
blatantly dishonest terms. Sixty Minutes approached Pauline Hanson to do a
'prime time' broadcast on 'a new political party in the making'... in 1997.
The original letter to David Ettridge confirming the 'rules of engagement'
with Pauline Hanson can be seen at this link:

http://www.gwb.com.au/gwb/news/onenation/letter.gif

In both Channel 9 interviews Pauline Hanson has appeared stunned, was
ridiculed by those interviewing her and thereafter denigrated by many of her
opponents. Quite simply she has been ambushed with unrelated questioning by
a less than ethical media doing the bidding of powers higher up.

This Sunday Channel 9's 'Sixty Minutes' has intimated that it will be doing
an 'expose' on Pauline Hanson's One Nation links to 'American influences'.
As of late yesterday they had refused to supply the source of their
information so that One Nation could respond. It will be an interesting time
for 'Sixty Minutes' to carry such a damaging, unsubstantiated programme,
less than a week before the Queensland state election.

The background to the programme to be run tomorrow can be seen at:
http://sixtyminutes.ninemsn.com.au/news/17029.asp

Here is a quote from that page:
'But as 60 Minutes has discovered, Pauline Hanson's one nation has little to
do with our nation. Much of her ideology is borrowed from loony extremists
in the United States, right down to her claim this week that the UN was
undermining Australia's sovereignty. Jeff McMullen reports that this fear of
a UN-led global world order is the central theme in the thinking of militia
groups at war with the US Government. And the militia leaders admit they
know and admire Pauline Hanson and have advised her supporters.'

With this in mind I would ask you to take this personal assurance from me. 

I have been privileged to get to know Pauline and understand the fire that
burns within her for Australia and her children, our future. She is not
influenced by anybody from overseas, her gun laws actually tighten gun
control through

"an instant record check to ensure those persons ineligible to own a firearm
can be quickly identified; we shall establish a register of persons
prohibited from firearm ownership. Prohibited persons: ie those convicted of
a violent offence."
 
See: http://www.gwb.com.au/onenation/press/guns.html  

Pauline's aims are to work for the return of Australia to Australians - away
from the negative, direct influence of overseas-based multinationals; to
introduce Citizen Based Referendums; to allow you to have a real say in your
future (One Nation's policies can be seen at:
http://www.gwb.com.au/onenation/policy.html) and to dismantle the power
blocks controlled by the media barons.

It is this last goal which is behind the vilification of Pauline Hanson by
the media and what she stands for, not the opinions expressed by those who
do their master's bidding.

You may like to tell 'Sixty Minutes' what you think of their programme, if
so use this link:

http://sixtyminutes.ninemsn.com.au/60m/content/email.asp

PLEASE BROADCAST THIS EMAIL WIDELY


A personal message from

Scott Balson, Pauline Hanson's One Nation web master

One Nation home page:
http://www.gwb.com.au/onenation





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Martin Bishop 
Date: Sat, 6 Jun 1998 18:59:38 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Tigerteam Contract
Message-ID: <19980607015916.1565.rocketmail@send1e.yahoomail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


A request for all tigerteam specialists:

If any of you has access to a sample of a tigerteam contract (a
company orders an attempt to break into their information system) -
for any country - preferably

European, I would very much appreciate you directing me to it (or
sending it). I

have assembled a team of various security specialists but really
wouldn't like to step into some legal trap that may have been avoided.
My primary concerns
are:

- attempt to "steal" information that the company considers
confidential or classified (are they allowed to authorize such attempt
at all and who gets
sued if they can't but do it anyway)
- possible hinderance or partial destruction of company's information
system - software, data, functionality (e.g. when conducting highly
violent attacks)
- using forged identity (very handy when doing social engineering but
what is the legal aspect of it?)
- "attacking" company's employees (can a company authorize someone to
do a background research on their employees, to hack into their home
computers as well, to social engineer them out-of-work, to abduct and
threaten them etc.?)
- protecting from your own team members (trust nobody: a member of my
team could eventually - under threat or some other pressure - insert a
backdoor/trojan/virus
etc. into the company's information system)

Thank you in advance for your answers and have a nice day.

Please respond to me directly or CC.

Martin Bishop





_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSqncrs@aol.com
Date: Sat, 6 Jun 1998 16:40:23 -0700 (PDT)
To: Cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: FBI Video
Message-ID: <544efa54.3579d342@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Bill had a correction for me (Thanks Bill!).  That cypherpunks survailance
video is only 416k (I've got .MP3 sizes on my mind, sorry)

Download it if you haven't seen it -

http://www.cnbc.com/moreinfo/badday.mpeg

Stan




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Global Web Builders 
Date: Sat, 6 Jun 1998 03:26:22 -0700 (PDT)
To: (Recipient list suppressed)
Subject: Statement on Sixty Minutes by Pauline Hanson
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980606101637.0084b320@mail.pronet.net.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Date: Sat, 6 Jun 1998 20:00:04 +1000 

NEWS RELEASE

6/6/98
60 minutes' Fairytales

"This Sunday, 60 Minutes is airing a segment devoted to connecting
Pauline Hanson with individuals or groups in the United States. While we
don't know who these people are, what is certain is that Pauline Hanson
is not in contact politically or organisationally with anyone in the
United States - the 60 Minutes story is a fairytale.

After hearing of an advertisement for this Sunday's 60 minutes, David
Oldfied contacted the programme to check its content. Despite making it
clear there was absolutely no communication between Pauline Hanson, her
advisers, or the organisation's heads and anyone in the United States,
60 minutes refused to even consider they had manufactured the story.
They also refused to allow One Nation an opportunity to rebut their
fairytale until the programme the following week. This is a nefariously
timed lie. 

This is deceptive and dishonest journalism at its worst and all credible
journalists, whatever their personal feelings, should be appalled at 60
minutes' approach. Regardless of what evidence 60 Minutes produce or
what they may state, the whole story is a fairytale fabricated without
the slightest basis of truth. There is no connection or communication
between the United States and Pauline Hanson or One Nation.

While we have no knowledge of such activities, it is possible some
individual member may be in contact with people overseas but this, if it
has happened, is a personal affair and unrelated to us as an
organisation.

It should also be understood that One Nation letterhead and other
documents have been forged on a number of occasions. Further to this,
people have falsely claimed to be party officials and candidates as well
as one incident where a person in Western Australia claimed to be a
close personal adviser to Pauline when in fact she had never even met
him.

We are not sure what 60 minutes will put to air, but having spoken to
them twice, it is clear they will peddle the lie of links that simply do
not exist. Perhaps they have cleverly manufactured a fairytale with the
help of people either willing to perjure themselves or who are just not
aware they are not really in contact with Pauline or One Nation, but
whatever the case, their story is fiction in the 1st, 2nd and 3rd
degree.

60 minute's refusal of an opportunity for us to face their fairytale on
their programme this Sunday night, in itself, proves their intention to
simply maliciously attack Pauline and One Nation by any means regardless
of the total lack of truth. 60 minutes has no credibility and should be
treated accordingly. Even their Internet story announcing their
programme is filled with lies when factual evidence is clearly available
by speaking to us, something they chose not to do because the truth
would ruin their dishonest and despicable claims."   

"Pauline Hanson and One Nation is, and will always be, 100% Australian
owned and 100% Australian influenced."

Statement issued by request of Pauline Hanson MP. 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: kip@bdi.sem.hhs.nl
Date: Sat, 6 Jun 1998 05:05:52 -0700 (PDT)
To: kip@bdi.sem.hhs.nl
Subject: JUST RELEASED!  10 Million!!!
Message-ID: <011297055501222@g_fantasm.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



IT WAS JUST RELEASED!!
 
INTRODUCING...MILLIONS VOL. 1A

We took a total of over 92 million email addresses from many of the
touted CD's that are out there (bought them all - some were $300+)!
We added the millions we had in storage to those.   When we
combined them all, we had in excess of 100+ million addresses
in one huge file.

We then ran a super "sort/de-dupe" program against this huge list.
It cut the file down to less than 25 million!!! Can you believe that? It
seems that most people that are selling CD's are duping the public
by putting numerous files of addresses in the CD over and over. This
created many duplicate addresses. They also had many program
 "generated" email addresses like Compuserve, MCI, ANON's, etc.
This causes a tremendous amount of undeliverables, and for  those
that use Stealth programs, clogs up servers quickly with trash, etc.

We then ran a program that contained 1800+ keywords to remove
addresses with vulgarity,  profanity, sex-related names, postmaster,
 webmaster, flamer, abuse, spam, etc., etc.   Also eliminated all .edu,
.mil, .org, .gov, etc.   After that list was run against the remaining list,
it  reduced it down to near 10 million addresses!

So, you see, our list will save people hundreds of dollars buying all
others that are out there on  CD and otherwise. Using ours will be like
 using the 100+ million that we started with, but a lot less money and
alot less time!!

We also purchased Cyber-Promos ($995.00) CD.  We received it just
prior to finishing production work on the new CD.  We had our people
take a random sample of 300,000 addresses  from the touted 2.9 that
they advertised.   We used a program that allows us to take a random
sample of addresses from any list.  We were able to have the program
take every 9th address, thus giving us a 300,000 list of Cyber's email
addresses from top to bottom.  We cleaned these, and came up with about
100,000 addresses. These are also mixed in.

We also included a 6+ million "Remove/Flamer" file broke into seperate
files for ease of  extracting and adding to your own database of removes.

 "You can buy from the REST or you can buy from the BEST.   Your choice.
_____________________________

What others are saying:
 
"I received the CD on Friday evening.   Like a kid with a new toy, I
immediately started bulking out using the new email addresses.  Over
the course of the weekend, I emailed out over 500,000 emails and I
received less than TWENTY undeliverables!!  I am totally satisfied
with my purchase!!  Thanks Premier!!"

Dave Buckley
Houston,  TX

"This list is worth it's weight in gold!!  I sent out 100,000 emails for my
product and received over 55 orders!

Ann Colby
New Orleans, LA

****************************************
 
                  HERE'S THE BOTTOM LINE

Here is what you get when you order today!

>> 10 Million Email Addresses... 1 per line in simple text format on a CD.
Files are in lots of 5,000 (no codes needed to open files).
All files are separated by domain name for your convenience.
 
PLUS you receive a tremendous REMOVE list!
6 Million+ 

>>> NOW ONLY $150.00!

This price is effective for the next seven days, thereafter the price will be
$199.00 so ORDER NOW!

All lists are completely free of any Duplicates. We also on a continual
basis, add New Names and Remove Undeliverables and Remove
Requests.
 
The result is the Cleanest Email Addresses Available Anywhere
to use over and over again, for a FRACTION of the cost that other
companies charge. Typical rates for acquiring email lists are from
1 cent to as high as 3 cents per email address - that's
"INFORMATION HIGHWAY" ROBBERY!.


***ADDED BONUS***
All our customers will have access to our updates on the CD volume
they purchase.  That's right, we continually work on our CD.  Who 
knows when those other CDs were made. We're constantly adding 
and deleting addresses, removes. Etc.  It all comes back to quality.  
No one else offers that! 

Don't even hesitate on this one or you will miss out on the most
effective way to market anywhere...PERIOD!

If you have any further questions or to place an order by
phone, please do not hesitate to call us at:

                              800-600-0343  Ext. 2693

To order our email package, simply print out the EZ ORDER FORM
below and fax or mail it to our office today.
 
We accept Visa, Mastercard, AMEX, Checks by Fax.
 
 _________________
EZ Order Form
 

 _____Yes! I would like to order MILLIONS Vol. 1A email addresses
for only $150.00.
 
*Please select one of the following for shipping..
 
____I would like to receive my package OVERNIGHT. I'm including
$15 for shipping. (outside US add an additional $25 for shipping)
 
____I would like to receive my package 2 DAY delivery. I'm including
$10 for shipping.  (outside US add an additional $25 for shipping)
 
DATE_____________________________________________________
 
NAME____________________________________________________

COMPANY NAME___________________________________________

ADDRESS_________________________________________________

CITY, STATE, ZIP___________________________________________
 
PHONE NUMBERS__________________________________________
 
FAX NUMBERS_____________________________________________
 
EMAIL ADDRESS___________________________________________
 
TYPE OF CREDIT CARD:
 
______VISA _____MASTERCARD
 
CREDIT CARD# __________________________________________
 
EXPIRATION DATE________________________________________
 
NAME ON CARD___________________________________________
 
AMOUNT $____________________
 
 
(Required) SIGNATURE:x________________________
 
DATE:x__________________
 
You may fax your order to us at:   1-212-504-8192
 

CHECK BY FAX SERVICES!
 
If you would like to fax a check, paste your check below and fax it to
our office along with all forms to: 1-212-504-8192

******************************************************

***24 HOUR FAX SERVICES*** PLEASE PASTE YOUR
 
CHECK HERE AND FAX IT TO US AT 1-212-504-8192
 
*******************************************************
 
If You fax a check, there is no need for you to send the original check.
We will draft up a new check, with the exact information from your
original check. All checks will be held for bank clearance.  (7-10 days)
Make payable to: "GD Publishing"
 










From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: favvafeephjmg.com@uk.newbridge.com
Date: Sat, 6 Jun 1998 23:23:51 -0700 (PDT)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: E-Mail anything to 57 million people for only $99
Message-ID: <76cd44dbs84f81co640a655aa@myweb.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


                                          57 MILLION EMAILS FOR ONLY $99 
                                             INCLUDES STEALTH MAILER  

      That's right, I have 57 Million  Fresh  email addresses that I will sell for only $99. These are all fresh addresses that include almost every person on the internet today,  with no duplications.  They are all sorted and ready to be mailed.  That is the best deal anywhere today !  Imagine selling a product for only $5 and getting  only a 1/10% response.   That's  $2,850,000  in your pocket !!! 
Don't believe it? People are making that kind of money right now by doing the same thing, that is why you get so much email from people selling you their product....it works !  I will even tell you how to mail them with easy to follow step-by-step instruction I include with every order.  These 57 Million email addresses are yours to keep, so you can use them over and over and they come on 1 CD.  
I will also include the stealth mailer - this is a full version of the incredibly fast mailing program that hides your email address when you send mail so no one will find out where it came from and you won't lose your dial up account.  The stealth mailer is an incredible program and absolutly FREE with your order !  
If you are not making at least $50,000 a month, then ORDER NOW. 
ORDER NOW BY FAX:  Simply print out this order form and fax it to us along with  your check made payable to: Cyber Bulk  for only $99.  Our Fax # is:  760 430 2220

We will confirm your order by email and then mail your cd out via priority mail.

Name:_____________________________

Street Address:______________________________

City:_____________________       

State:________________ZipCode:_____________

Phone number:__________________________

Email:_______________________________

Tape your check here.  Returned checks are subject to $25 NSF Fee.
                Fax it to   760 430 2220
                                Or
You can mail a check or money order to:

Cyber Bulk
167 Hamilton ST
Oceanside, CA 92054



If you want to be removed from our mailing list just send a email here








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: sahazali@ew.mimos.my
Date: Sat, 6 Jun 1998 11:13:39 -0700 (PDT)
To: sahazali@ew.mimos.my
Subject: Find out what "They" don't want you to know!!!
Message-ID: <011297033301222@g_fantasmimages.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Dear Friend:

If you have already responded to the following announcement a few
days ago, that means your package is already on its way and it
should be arriving soon! If you have not responded to this before,
please pay attention to it now. This is very important!!!

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT
IMPORTANT ACCOUNCEMENT
 ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
 '''''''''''''''''''''''''''
Your future May Depend on it !
 
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Before you know about this 'Important Announcement', you must
first read the following 'Editorial Excerpts' from some important
publications in the United States:

NEW YORK TIMES: "In concluding our review of Financial
organizations to effect change in the 90's, special attention
should be called to a California based organization, 'WORLD
CURRENCY CARTEL'. Members of this organization are amassing
hundred of millions of dollars in the currency market using a very
LEGAL method which has NEVER been divulged to the general public.
While their purpose is not yet known, their presence has most
certainly been felt".
 
NBC NIGHTLY NEWS: "Members of 'World Currency Cartel', who always
keep a low profile, are considered to be some of the most
wealthiest people in North America".

More excerpts later, but first let us give you this very
'IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT":
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
 '''''''''
We are glad to announce that for the first time and for a very
short period of time, WORLD CURRENCY CARTEL will instruct a
LIMITED number of people worldwide on 'HOW TO CONVERT $25 INTO ONE
HUNDRED OF LEGAL CURRENCY'. We will transact the first conversion
for you, after that you can easily and quickly do this on your own
hundreds or even thousands of times every month.
TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THIS "SECRET FLAW" !
******************************************************************
******************************************************************
***
 
It is even more explosive than we have yet disclosed. While
currency does fluctuate daily, we can show you 'HOW TO CONVERT $99
INTO $588 AS MANY TIMES AS YOU WANT'. That means, you will be able
to EXCHANGE $99, AMERICAN LEGAL CURRENCY DOLLARS, FOR $580 OF THE
SAME. You can do this as many times as you wish, every day, every
week, every month. All very LEGAL and effortlessly!
 
It takes only 5 to 10 minutes each time you do this. You can do
this from home, office or even while traveling. All you need is
an access to a phone line and an address. Best of all, you can do
this from ANY CITY ON THIS EARTH!!!
 
Again, we must reiterate, anyone can do this and the source is
NEVER-ENDING. For as long as the global financial community
continues to use different currencies with varying exchange rates,
the "SECRET FLAW" will exist.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
As we said earlier , we will do the first transaction for you and
will show you exactly how to do this on your own, over and over
again!
 
The amount of exchange you would do each time is entirely up to
you. Working just 2 to 10 hours a week, you can soon join the list
of Millionaires who do this on a daily basis many times a day. The
transaction is so simple that even a high school kid can do it!
 
We at the World Currency Cartel would like to see a uniform global
currency backed by Gold. But, until then, we will allow a LIMITED
number of individuals worldwide to share in the UNLIMITED PROFITS
provided for by the world currency differentials.
 
We will espouse no more political views nor will we ask you to do
so. We can say however, that our parent organization, NDML,
benefits greatly by the knowledge being shared, as we
ourselves, along with YOU, benefit likewise. Your main concern
surely will be, how you will benefit.

As soon as you become a member, you will make transactions from
your home, office, by telephone or through the mail. You can
conduct these transactions even while traveling.

Don't believe us? Experience it for yourself!
  ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
Unlike anyone else, we will assure you great financial freedom and
you will add to our quickly growing base of supporters and join
the list of MILLIONAIRES being created using this very "SECRET
FLAW" in the world currency market.
******************************************************************
******************************************************************
***

DON'T ENVY US, JOIN US TODAY!!!
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
'''''''''
There is a one time membership fee of only $195. BUT, if you join
us by June 29th, 1998, you can join us for only $25 administrative cost. 
Your important documents, instructions, contact name/address, phone
number and all other pertinent information will be mailed to you
immediately. So take advantage of our Anniversary date and join us
today.
 
(If you are replying after June 29th, you must pay $195.00 for
the membership fee. NO EXCEPTIONS, and no more E-mail inquiries
please).

Upon becoming a member, you promise to keep all infos
CONFIDENTIAL!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Should you choose to cancel your membership for any reason, you
must return all papers/documents for a refund within 60 days.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~--
 
IMPORTANT:
****************
 
1...Please write your name & mailing address VERY CLEARLY on a
     paper
2...Below your mailing address, please write your E-mail address
3...At the top left hand corner, please write the words "NEW
     MEMBER" 
4...Attach a CHECK or MONEY ORDER for $25 + $10 for the shipping 
     and handling of documents (TOTAL = $35.00)  Outside US add $10 (TOTAL  = $45) 
     PAYABLE TO "EBSN" and mail to:

                  EBSN
                  PO BOX 66
                  ROSELLE PARK, NJ 07204
 
}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} }}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Here are some more 'Editorial Excerpts':
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
WALL STREET: "A discreet group of Americans, operating under the
guise of World Currency Cartel have recently begun making rumbles in
world finance market. While at this time, their game is not completely
known, they certainly will be watched by those making major moves in the
currency contracts".

FINANCIAL WEEK: "Watch them, monitor them, extract their knowledge
and try to become one of them. That is the soundest financial
advice we could give to anyone".

NATIONAL BUSINESS WEEKLY: "While this reporter has been left in
the cold as to its method of operation, we have been able to
confirm that 'World Currency Cartel' and its members are literally
amassing great fortunes overnight".

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$END$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
We thankfully credit DIAMOND INT. for the content of this
IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT.
 
 






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Global Web Builders 
Date: Sat, 6 Jun 1998 13:26:58 -0700 (PDT)
To: (Recipient list suppressed)
Subject: Toyota - Sixty Minutes' sponsors need to know
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980606202036.00b43b7c@mail.pronet.net.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Dear One Nation supporters

Toyota are the bona-fide sponsors of Sixty Minutes. 

Further to our email yesterday about their coverage of Pauline Hanson
tonight, ****I would encourage**** you to take a moment to send your message
of concern about the unethical behaviour of this Channel 9 programme and
express yours views clearly on how you feel this might reflect on their
business.

Here is Toyota's email address:

toyota@spike.com.au

GWB


Scott Balson

Here is a copy of the email sent to you yesterday from Pauline Hanson:

NEWS RELEASE

6/6/98
60 minutes' Fairytales

"This Sunday, 60 Minutes is airing a segment devoted to connecting
Pauline Hanson with individuals or groups in the United States. While we
don't know who these people are, what is certain is that Pauline Hanson
is not in contact politically or organisationally with anyone in the
United States - the 60 Minutes story is a fairytale.

After hearing of an advertisement for this Sunday's 60 minutes, David
Oldfied contacted the programme to check its content. Despite making it
clear there was absolutely no communication between Pauline Hanson, her
advisers, or the organisation's heads and anyone in the United States,
60 minutes refused to even consider they had manufactured the story.
They also refused to allow One Nation an opportunity to rebut their
fairytale until the programme the following week. This is a nefariously
timed lie. 

This is deceptive and dishonest journalism at its worst and all credible
journalists, whatever their personal feelings, should be appalled at 60
minutes' approach. Regardless of what evidence 60 Minutes produce or
what they may state, the whole story is a fairytale fabricated without
the slightest basis of truth. There is no connection or communication
between the United States and Pauline Hanson or One Nation.

While we have no knowledge of such activities, it is possible some
individual member may be in contact with people overseas but this, if it
has happened, is a personal affair and unrelated to us as an
organisation.

It should also be understood that One Nation letterhead and other
documents have been forged on a number of occasions. Further to this,
people have falsely claimed to be party officials and candidates as well
as one incident where a person in Western Australia claimed to be a
close personal adviser to Pauline when in fact she had never even met
him.

We are not sure what 60 minutes will put to air, but having spoken to
them twice, it is clear they will peddle the lie of links that simply do
not exist. Perhaps they have cleverly manufactured a fairytale with the
help of people either willing to perjure themselves or who are just not
aware they are not really in contact with Pauline or One Nation, but
whatever the case, their story is fiction in the 1st, 2nd and 3rd
degree.

60 minute's refusal of an opportunity for us to face their fairytale on
their programme this Sunday night, in itself, proves their intention to
simply maliciously attack Pauline and One Nation by any means regardless
of the total lack of truth. 60 minutes has no credibility and should be
treated accordingly. Even their Internet story announcing their
programme is filled with lies when factual evidence is clearly available
by speaking to us, something they chose not to do because the truth
would ruin their dishonest and despicable claims."   

"Pauline Hanson and One Nation is, and will always be, 100% Australian
owned and 100% Australian influenced."

Statement issued by request of Pauline Hanson MP. 







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: reoru89@demeter.psych.uw.edu.pl (THE HOBBY PROS)
Date: Sat, 6 Jun 1998 23:16:29 -0700 (PDT)
To: reoru89@demeter.psych.uw.edu.pl
Subject: CABLE DECSRAMBLER  Now Only  $6.00 !!
Message-ID: <199806063592AAA6754@564897845784511@Inovations.com.inmh.ro>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


This is really cool!                    

                PREMIUM CHANNELS and PAY PER VIEW EVENTS              

                                            **** FREE ****



EASY to assemble plans for only $6.00 !
We will send your plans the day we receive your order!


YOU WILL BE WATCHING HBO, SHOWTIME, 
THE MOVIE CHANNEL, Pay per view events, Adult stations,
and any other scrambled signal   NEXT WEEK!

You can EASILY assemble a cable descrambler in less than 30 minutes!
You have probably seen many advertisments for similar plans....

 
BUT OURS are BETTER! 

We have compared it to all the others and have actually
IMPROVED the quality and SIMPLIFIED the design !!!


**  We even include PHOTOS! **


OUR PLANS ARE BETTER! 
We have NEW, EASY TO READ,EASY to assemble plans for only $6.00! 
We have seen them advertised for as much as $29.00 and you have 
to wait weeks to receive them!       


WHAT THE OTHERS SAY IS TRUE!

Parts are available at "The R***O S***k" Trademark rights 
do not allow us to use a national electronics retail chains' name
but there is one in your town!


Call and ask them BEFORE you order! 
They are very familiar with these plans and 
will tell you that it.......

       DOES INDEED WORK!    ASK THEM! 


You will need part #'s

 270-235 
 271-1325 
 278-212
 RG59 coaxial cable,
 #12 copper wire, 
 and a variable capacitor.


     They may have to  special order the variable capacitor....
     But WHY WAIT for a special order?  WE have them!
  

  **  WE have secured a supply of the capacitors directly from
      the manufacturer,   and We WILL include one with your plans
       for an ADDITIONAL  $10.00 only!


 It is LEGAL, providing of course you use these
 plans for educational purposes only.

 IT'S FUN!  


We're sure you'll enjoy this!  Our FAMILIES sure do!                           
               * you need one descrambler for each TV.


                   NO MORE MONTHLY BILLS!           

                 $ 6.00     for plans only                        
                
                $10.00     for variable capacitor only            

                $16.00     for The easy to assemble plans and one variable capacitor!	

                 


Pay by check or money order payable to:           

        The Hobby Pros           
        336 Bon Air Center #254           
        Greenbrae, Ca.           
        94904          		            


Please provide a self addressed stamped envelope (.64)          

So we can RUSH your order to you!













ot3
^^




























   If this E-mail offends anyone, we apologize ......and feel free to use the DEL key.










 "By deleting your unwanted E-Mail you waste one key stroke, yet by 
throwing away paper mail you waste a planet! SAVE OUR TREES and
 support internet E-Mail instead of traditional mail"! 
^^





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: s955349@mailserv.cuhk.edu.hk
Date: Sat, 6 Jun 1998 23:20:57 -0700 (PDT)
To: 785@theworld1.net
Subject: What "THEY" Don't Want You To Find Out!!
Message-ID: <53556360_13892432>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Dear Friend:

If you have already responded to the following announcement a few
days ago, that means your package is already on its way and it
should be arriving soon! If you have not responded to this before,
please pay attention to it now. This is very important!!!

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
                     IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT

                     IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT

''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
                  Your future May Depend on it!

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Before you know about this 'Important Announcement', you must
first read the following 'Editorial Excerpts' from some important
publications in the United States:

NEW YORK TIMES: "In concluding our review of Financial
organizations to effect change in the 90's, special attention
should be called to a California based organization, 'WORLD 

CURRENCY CARTEL'. Members of this organization are amassing
hundred of millions of dollars in the currency market using a very
LEGAL method which has NEVER been divulged to the general public.
While their purpose is not yet known, their presence has most
certainly been felt".

NBC NIGHTLY NEWS: "Members of 'World Currency Cartel', who always
keep a low profile, are considered to be some of the most
wealthiest people in North America".

More excerpts later, but first let us give you this very

"IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT":

''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

We are glad to announce that for the first time and for a very
short period of time, WORLD CURRENCY CARTEL will instruct a
LIMITED number of people worldwide on 'HOW TO CONVERT $25 INTO 
ONE HUNDRED OF LEGAL CURRENCY'. We will transact the first
conversion for you, after that you can easily and quickly do this
on your own hundreds or even thousands of times every month.

            TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THIS "SECRET FLAW" !
******************************************************************

It is even more explosive than we have yet disclosed. While
currency does fluctuate daily, we can show you 'HOW TO CONVERT $99
INTO $588 AS MANY TIMES AS YOU WANT'. That means, you will be able
to EXCHANGE $99, AMERICAN LEGAL CURRENCY DOLLARS, FOR $580 OF THE
SAME. You can do this as many times as you wish, every day, every
week, every month. All very LEGAL and effortlessly!

It takes only 5 to 10 minutes each time you do this. You can do
this from home, office or even while traveling. All you need is
an access to a phone line and an address. Best of all, you can do
this from ANY CITY ON THIS EARTH!!!

Again, we must reiterate, anyone can do this and the source is
NEVER-ENDING. For as long as the global financial community
continues to use different currencies with varying exchange rates,
the "SECRET FLAW" will exist.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

As we said earlier , we will do the first transaction for you and
will show you exactly how to do this on your own, over and over
again!

The amount of exchange you would do each time is entirely up to
you. Working just 2 to 10 hours a week, you can soon join the list
of Millionaires who do this on a daily basis many times a day. The
transaction is so simple that even a high school kid can do it!

We at the World Currency Cartel would like to see a uniform global
currency backed by Gold. But, until then, we will allow a LIMITED
number of individuals worldwide to share in the UNLIMITED PROFITS
provided for by the world currency differentials.

We will espouse no more political views nor will we ask you to do 
so. We can say however, that our parent organization, NBT, benefits
greatly by the knowledge being shared, as we ourselves, along with
YOU, benefit likewise. Your main concern surely will be, 
how you will benefit.

As soon as you become a member, you will make transactions from
your home, office, by telephone or through the mail. You can
conduct these transactions even while traveling.

=================================================================
         Don't believe us? Experience it for yourself!
=================================================================

Unlike anyone else, we will assure you great financial freedom and
you will add to our quickly growing base of supporters and join
the list of MILLIONAIRES being created using this very "SECRET
FLAW" in the world currency market.

==================================================================

               DON'T ENVY US, JOIN US TODAY!!!

==================================================================

''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

There is a one time membership fee of only $195. BUT, if you join
us by June 30, 1998, you can join us for only $25 administrative
cost. Your  important documents, instructions, contact name/address,
phone number and all other pertinent information will be mailed to
you  immediately. So take advantage of our Anniversary date and join
us today.

(If you are replying after June 30, you must pay $195.00 for the
membership fee. NO EXCEPTIONS, and no more E-mail inquiries please).

Upon becoming a member, you promise to keep all info. CONFIDENTIAL!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Should you choose to cancel your membership for any reason, you
must return all papers/documents for a refund within 60 days.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
**************************

        IMPORTANT:

**************************

1...Please write your name & mailing address VERY CLEARLY on a
piece of paper or index card.

2...Below your mailing address, please write your E-mail address
(optional).

3...At the top left hand corner, please write the words:

              "NEW MEMBER"

4...Attach a CHECK or MONEY ORDER for $25 + $5 for the shipping of
documents (TOTAL = $30.00) PAYABLE TO "NBT" and mail to:

                NBT
                PO BOX 1129
                UNION, NJ 07083-1129

*If outside US add an additional $10 (TOTAL = $40.00, International
Money Orders Only)

}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Here are some more "Editorial Excerpts":

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
WALL STREET: "A discreet group of Americans, operating under the
guise of World Currency Cartel have recently begun making rumbles
in world finance market. While at this time, their game is not
completely known, they certainly will be watched by those making
major moves in the currency contracts".

FINANCIAL WEEK: "Watch them, monitor them, extract their knowledge
and try to become one of them. That is the soundest financial advice
we could give to anyone".

NATIONAL BUSINESS WEEKLY: "While this reporter has been left in
the cold as to its method of operation, we have been able to
confirm that 'World Currency Cartel' and its members are literally
amassing great fortunes overnight".

                                            END

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

We thankfully credit DIAMOND INT. for the content of this 
IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT!




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Sun, 7 Jun 1998 12:46:03 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: PGP International Accused
Message-ID: <199806071407.KAA08652@camel8.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


There are accusations from Russia and France that
PGP International and Network Associates are
improperly and probably illegally refusing downloads
of PGP to legitimate users. 

   http://jya.com/pgpi-x-ru.htm

   http://jya.com/nai-x-fr.htm

Phil Zimmermann and the companies have been asked 
by the plaintiffs to explain why public affirmations of open 
access are contradicted by illegal restrictions.

Could this be due to pressure from US agencies or
legal counsel to comply with covert directives of the
nations to restrict access or pay the price of being
denied markets?

Maybe this is the way the Stewart Baker policy of encryption
duplicity is being spread from NSA to the marketeers: Public 
assurances of concern and covert arrangements with authority
to assure perpetuation of national security lockdown.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Global Web Builders 
Date: Sat, 6 Jun 1998 17:44:27 -0700 (PDT)
To: (Recipient list suppressed)
Subject: Queensland State Elections Live
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980607003915.023003b4@mail.pronet.net.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Dear One Nation supporter

Bookmark this page:

http://www.gwb.com.au/onenation/qldstate/june13

We will be covering the state elections live from here on behalf of One Nation.

You will be able to participate in live IRC Chat (find out how now)

and

Follow stories and images as they unfold.

GWB



Scott Balson





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Sun, 7 Jun 1998 12:40:45 -0700 (PDT)
To: Chris Wedgwood 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980607123650.008cf970@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


>> << > Auto-Launch attached binaries in E-Mail <-- Can we say G**dT*mes?
>> It was my understanding, that the so-called GoodTimes virus was a farce,
>> apparently aimed at specific commercial spammers.
>G**dT*mes is a hoax.
>
>I'm talking about a bug in Outlook (Express?) that will execute code when
>email messages are opened.

G**dT*mes and its ilk are hoaxes, which infect the mind of some readers,
causing Fear and Panic, and propagating around like chain letters.
But the fear-causing part is the assertion that if you read the message,
it will execute on your computer and do Bad Scary Things.
In the case of G**dT*mes, this was bogus, but it doesn't have to be.

In a passive-mail-reader environment, this won't happen,
because there's no reason your mailreader will execute commands 
embedded in email, but if you've got a mail-reader that
executes scripts sent to it in the mail, you don't need the 
human reader's participation to spread things,
you just need to tell the mail-reader to propagate and then
do whatever payload you've sent along as well.

The IBM Christmas-Tree Virus didn't use Fear to execute -
it promised the readers an amusing animated Christmas Tree on their terminals
(back when that was still perceived as cool :-) and if the sucker ran it,
it ran its propagation phase before or during the animation.

And back when we used Real Terminals instead of emulators,
you could send a crafty escape sequence to an HP2621 or VT100
to stash material in a register or on the screen and
get it sent back to the computer.  If you made a good guess
about the environment, this was enough ("Quit mailreader, run /tmp/boom".)
There was an article in the SFChron or Oakland Trib in spring 1979
about how "hackers at Berkeley" discovered a security hole in
"the Unix, a computer made by DEC", which was really a terminal exploit.

How good is that VT100 emulator you're using to telnet to that shell account?
 .
	.
		.
			.
				.
					.
						.
							ESC[42m;
								.

									yeah, that was fake.....






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: usethe800number@mailexcite.com
Date: Sun, 7 Jun 1998 15:15:11 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: Search Engines
Message-ID: <29348246_22149450>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




I saw your web site on the internet.  I work for
a company that specializes in submitting web sites
to search engines.  We can submit your web site to
over 350 of the world's best search engines for 
only $39.95!  All work is verified.  If you would
like to get more traffic to your web site feel
free to give me a call at our toll-free number 
listed below or order directly from our web site.

We are a U.S. Based company that does business
world wide.


Sincerely,

David Scott
(800) 484-2621 X5568
http://www.skymax.net/searchengines







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: net10@mail.domain-serv.com
Date: Sun, 7 Jun 1998 18:19:09 -0700 (PDT)
To: Internet_Presence@natmed.com
Subject: Don't Risk Losing That Great Domain Name!
Message-ID: <199806080049.RAA05067@outlook.domain-serv.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


*********************************************************************
Don't Risk Losing That Great Domain Name For 
Your Personal Or Business Use.
*********************************************************************

Register your Domain Name for a one time fee of $35.00.
Planet Net's Domain Registration Services will not only 
register your domain name, but for no monthly charge, 
allow you to use the Planet Net Name Service. When you 
are ready to post your web site or use your domain for 
mail, The decision is up to you; select another website 
hosting company or Host with Planet Net.  We'll even 
waive the set-up fees. Also available are packages with 
custom "under construction" pages and mail services allowing
you to use your new domain for e-mail.

Planet Net, the Internet's premier webmasters resource,
offers high performance Website Hosting and Dedicated 
Servers. Lightning fast 30 MB virtual web hosting packages 
starting at $19.99/Month. Reseller packages with domain hosting
as low as $10 /month All packages include bundles of free 
webmaster tools. 

Sign-up before June 30, 1998 and receive up to 3 Free months 
of web site hosting.

If you would like to check the availability of your domain name or 
learn more about Planet Net type the following address in your web browser.

http://www.serveramerica.com

See You On The Net!!






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Gilmore 
Date: Sun, 7 Jun 1998 21:39:00 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: President's Export Council advisors consider Encryption Policy
Message-ID: <199806080438.VAA05215@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


[Largely bureaucratic, but there may be some interesting nuggets.
 This is an advisory group to watch over exports in general, with a
 subcommittee that is chartered to watch over encryption issues.  --gnu]

			 EXECUTIVE SUMMARY
	PRESIDENT'S EXPORT COUNCIL SUBCOMMITTEE ON ENCRYPTION
			  APRIL 23, 1998
		      SUMMARY OF OPEN SESSION

The open session of the President's Export Council Subcommittee on
Encryption (PECSENC) was called to order at 8:30 a.m.  Mr. Adorjan noted
the Committee's mandate and described the framework and agenda of the
meeting.  He then described the proposed focus of the Subcommittee
working groups on U.S. regulation and legislation, international, and
technology.  He emphasized that the objective would be for each working
group to address the many subjects related to encryption export policy
from the perspective of the primary topic.  He noted that as the working
groups made progress on issues, they would bring recommendations for
decision to the entire Subcommittee.  He added that each working group
would issue individual reports or recommendations rather than waiting
for an integrated report of all three working groups.  He again noted
his hope that the work of the three groups be integrated further on in
the process.  He commented that there had been discussion of a fourth
group focused on law enforcement, but concluded that it would be more
valuable to integrate law enforcement issues into the work of the three
groups because of its impact on these areas.  He then described the
proposed list of working group participants and possible chairs, noting
that his goal was to get a balanced representation of members within
each group.  He said that during the afternoon breakout sessions, he
would like each working group to reach a set of decisions on the scope
and approach of its work plan, and the timetable for completion.

Mr. Adorjan then discussed how the PECSENC, as a Subcommittee of the
President's Export Council, would communicate any formal activity to the
Administration, noting that the process used by the PEC Subcommittee on
Export Administration (PECSEA) worked well.  He described this process,
and explained that any proposals to send reports or letters to the
Administration were submitted by the Subcommittee Chair to the PEC Chair
for distribution to Committee members, with the PEC staff coordinating
this effort.

Mr. Adorjan then commented on Mr. Stewart Baker's e-mail recommendation
to submit a letter urging the Administration to move forward on the
financial institutions regulation which had been pending.  He agreed
with Mr. Baker's assessment that the Subcommittee should focus not only
on long-term issues, but also intervene in short-term issues.  Mr.
Adorjan added that issuing a letter to the Administration with support
of PEC and Subcommittee members was an effective means of bringing a
topic to the forefront.  He then suggested that the working groups
address such time sensitive issues, as appropriate, and formulate
recommendations for circulation throughout the entire Subcommittee.  Mr.
Adorjan then asked for any comments with regard to the working group
activities.  As there were none, he turned to the issue of membership,
noting that the PECSENC had 23 members with approximately 30 total
members planned.  He added that at the previous meeting, members had
discussed the importance of having a cryptographer and insurance
industry representative as members.  He assured members that the
department was pursuing these recommendations.

At the request of Subcommittee members, Under Secretary Reinsch
discussed Secretary Daley's recent remarks to a group of information
technology associations regarding the release of the Commerce Department
report titled "The Emerging Digital Economy."   Mr. Reinsch noted that
while the report focused on electronic commerce, the Secretary also took
the opportunity to comment on the encryption debate.  He emphasized that
the Secretary supported the President's policy to balance national
security, privacy, and commercial interests, but believed that
implementation of the policy had not been as successful as it should
be.  He added that if it could not be implemented successfully, the
victims would be the law enforcement community and U.S. business, as
foreign products would become more dominant.  With respect to the
ability of the United States to impact the activities of foreign
countries on encryption, Mr. Reinsch noted that each country that
confronted the issue had to work out the debate in its own way.
Responding to Mr. Lynn McNulty's request for views on the Economic
Strategy Institute's report entitled "Finding the Key, Reconciling
National and Economic Security Interests in Cryptography Policy", Mr.
Reinsch noted that while the report did not offer alternatives, it
demonstrated that balancing the competing interests in the debate was
difficult.

Mr. Adorjan then introduced the first presenter in the Justice
Department's threat assessment briefing, Mr. Charles Barry Smith,
Supervisory Special Agent, Office of Public and Congressional Affairs at
the Federal Bureau of Investigation.  Agent Smith began by stating that
law enforcement was supportive of strong encryption to protect privacy,
but that it would be adversely impacted by commercially available
non-recovery encryption products.  He discussed the legal issues related
to wiretapping, describing it as a technique of last resort done under
strict judicial procedures.  He then described the adverse impact of
non-recovery encryption on law enforcement's ability to perform search
and seizure of criminally related electronically stored data.  He
provided case examples where electronic surveillance had been used
successfully and described high-profile cases where encryption played a
role.  In response to Raymond Humphrey's question as to whether or not
criminals would use key recovery products, Agent Smith said that past
experience showed that criminals tended to use what was generally
available, citing the use of cellular phones as an example.  Ambassador
Katz raised the issue of whether it was too late to reverse the impact
of the general availability of non-key recovery encryption.  Agent Smith
responded that at this point encryption was just an added feature, but
would soon become integrated into products and user-friendly, resulting
in increased use.   In response to Ms. Simons' question of the issue of
domestic controls, Agent Smith noted that law enforcement was in fact
concerned about the proliferation of non-recovery products within the
United States, as well as the impact of imports of such products.  Agent
Smith emphasized that law enforcement did not advocate that the
government be the holder of the information or key, but that it have
access to information pursuant to lawful authority without having to go
to the individual who may be engaged in the illegal activity.

Adorjan then introduced the second Justice Department speaker, Mr. Scott
Charney, Chief of the Computer Crime and Intellectual Property Section
in the Criminal Division of the Justice Department.  Mr. Charney began
by commenting that his office was a large proponent of using
cryptography to protect systems for both authentication and privacy and
commerce purposes based on its experience with hacker cases.  He noted
that if information was encrypted, it was not as much of a concern if
hackers gained access to it.  He said that the question to ask was
whether the public wanted the kind of infrastructure that helped
criminals protect themselves because products were unbreakable and law
enforcement had no access to data, or the kind of infrastructure where
the public got the benefits of robust cryptography but where it did more
to preserve public safety.  Mr. Douglas McGowan asked about the method
of controlling keys for individual users of key recovery encryption
outside of the corporate environment.  Mr. Charney responded that there
were many ingenious ways to implement the technology which allow people
to retain control to information and keys while providing for government
access with the necessary authority.   He added that there were ways to
implement key recovery that offered benefits for the consumer and public
safety, and used the example of "self-wrapping" encryption.  Mr. Donald
Goldstein noted that there was evidence that the public was relatively
trusting and accepting of key management and recovery techniques, citing
the example of ATM card usage.  He cautioned that the network might
become unreliable if a vulnerability was introduced which could result
in the public not trusting the system anymore.  Mr. Chaney responded
that this vulnerability was far less than what existed in today's
plaintext world and that an expectation of zero risk on networks was not
realistic.  He added that there needed to be a balance of benefits and
risks and that it was difficult to quantify risks to privacy versus
public safety.

There was also a general discussion with Messrs. Smith and Charney on
related issues, including the concept of a "Net Center", the policies of
other countries, imports of non-recovery encryption, the difficulty in
designing different products in different markets, the possibility of a
single law enforcement standard, economic intelligence and espionage,
including losses to the economy if robust encryption was not available,
the need for real time access to encrypted communications,  and the
ability of law enforcement to solve crimes in the future if constrained
by non key-recovery encryption products.  Mr. Anthony Pentino of the
National Security Agency suggested that law enforcement might find a
better way to communicate its position beyond the congressional level to
the general public at large to counter what appeared to be an
exaggeration of privacy concerns fostered by its detractors.  Ms. Simons
then asked that in the future, the Subcommittee members have the
opportunity to submit questions to speakers.  Mr Adorjan suggested that
these questions be conveyed through the working groups.

Mr. Linton Wells from the Department of Defense commented that Deputy
Secretary of Defense John Hamre recently spoke to NATO allies in
Brussels regarding the importance of each country developing national
solutions on encryption.  He noted that Hamre's point was that
encryption needed to be regarded not just from commerce and law
enforcement standpoint, but as a national security issue as well.   As
NATO moved from military dedicated command and control to public
networks, strong identification, authentication, and interoperability
were crucial.   He also noted that with respect to the Defense
Department engaging in electronic commerce, key recovery encryption
would be necessary from an internal control standpoint.  Mr. Adorjan
agreed that this issue was not unique to the Defense Department, but
corporations as well.

Turning to the briefing foreign activities, Mr. Adorjan introduced Ms.
Michelle O'Neill, Executive Director to Ambassador Aaron and Mr. James
Lewis, Director of the Office of Strategic Trade and Foreign Policy
Controls.  Ms. O'Neill began by explaining that Ambassador Aaron, who
was unable to attend the meeting, had been appointed as Special Envoy
for Cryptography in November 1996.  The goal of his discussions with
other countries was international consensus on the development of key
management and key recovery architectures that would foster robust,
dependable security for global information infrastructure while
protecting public safety and national security.  She said that two key
issues were the need for harmonized export control policies and the
development compatible infrastructures, as it was clear that no widely
used encryption system or any successful national policy would be
possible without international cooperation.  She also noted that while
governments must provide appropriate policy framework, the task of
building this infrastructure would lie with the private sector.   She
said that through Ambassador Aaron's discussions, they had learned that
while most governments were behind the United States in development of
encryption policies, each shared the same concerns as the United States
in trying to strike the right balance.

Mr. Lewis' discussion focused on multilateral controls on encryption
exports.  He began by noting that a number of countries controlled the
export of encryption, but that the task was to modernize encryption
export controls to reflect today's environment and agree to the
implementation of common policies.  He added that most governments had
common concerns about role of encryption in society.  He noted that the
U.S. objectives with respect to encryption policy were law enforcement
access, use of recoverable encryption, and promotion of electronic
commerce.  He then explained the history and structure of Wassenaar
Arrangement and outlined the issues that the forum was considering with
respect to encryption, including moving to a positive control list,
consideration of the treatment of commercial encryption products given
widespread commercial use, treatment of software and intangible
technology (phone conversations, faxes, Internet transmissions),
decontrol levels, and transparency in reporting.  He said that the
United States had raised encryption as an issue for discussion at the
last Wassenaar Arrangement plenary in December 1997 and asked countries
to adopt similar policies as the United States.  He indicated that given
the scope of the issues under consideration, he was not sure that
resolution would happen anytime soon.  He added that Ambassador Aaron's
group was finding that other countries were moving slowly in the U.S.
direction and had more sympathy for the U.S.  position than it would
appear.  There was a general discussion of the issue of mass market
encryption software, the treatment of intangible technology and the need
to develop a common approach on encryption.

Following the lunch break and the meeting of the non-public working
group sessions, Chairman Adorjan reconvened the Subcommittee at 3:00
p.m.  He asked each group to give a report on its discussions and began
with Mr. Gant Redmon and the working group on technology.  Mr. Redmon
began by noting that the issue of interoperability was a key part of the
group's discussion and said that building key recovery was not an
impossible project (with respect to stored data).  He said that from a
technological standpoint, interoperability could cause a great deal of
difficulty in terms of those products that have key recovery and those
that do not.  He also noted the strong domestic impact of export issues
and other pressures to create encryption products a certain way.  With
respect to mass market software, he said that the working group
generally agreed that 56 bit encryption products were the de facto
standard.
Mr. Adorjan then turned to Ambassador Katz for a briefing on the
international working group discussion.   Katz noted that the first task
they agreed to focus on was developing an understanding of the state of
current encryption policies, including foreign availability and policies
of other governments.  He said that the working group would seek
briefings from government and the private sector and perhaps survey
suppliers and users.  He indicated that the group had identified another
issue:  whether export control policy is the most effective instrument
to meet broader objectives of law enforcement, national security, and
privacy.  He finished by noting that the working group planned on
completing its information gathering prior to the September meeting and
would then work on policy recommendations.

Mr. Adorjan then turned to the Regulatory and Legislative working
group.  Mr. Richard Barth began by noting that the working group had
considered the letter drafted by Mr. Baker and supported it with minor
edits.  He added that they felt that the issue of raising the decontrol
level to 56 bit encryption products could be included as a second
point.  He then noted that the group had agreed on a set of operating
principles for themselves and perhaps for the use of the entire
Subcommittee.  These included the objective of balancing the interests
of law enforcement, privacy and national, seeking this balance via
market driven forces and, where necessary, taking a legislative
approach.  He concluded with a request for a panel briefing on the
legislative environment and a briefing on the export control
requirements on encryption.

Adorjan agreed that briefings on three issues would be useful,
specifically briefings on the status of legislative issues, export
policies and administration, and international threat briefing by the
National Security Agency.  With respect to these briefings, he would ask
the presenters to provide topical outlines in advance of the briefings.
Mr. Adorjan said he looked forward to the working groups developing a
defined scope of work by the next meeting, and suggested that they
interact by e-mail.  He added that the working groups did not need to
get consensus, but that the long term objective was to formulate a set
of recommendations.  Finally, he noted that he and Under Secretary
Reinsch would invite Secretary Daley to participate at the June 22
meeting.  Mr. Adorjan asked if there were other issues to be discussed.
As there were none, he adjourned the session at 3:35 p.m.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: hollyelliott@hotmail.com
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 00:00:34 -0700 (PDT)
To: hollyelliott.hotmail.com@luc.ab.org
Subject: Take your business to the next level...
Message-ID: <198701171124.gbc hollyelliott@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "James M. Atkinson, Comm-Eng" 
Date: Sun, 7 Jun 1998 23:49:35 -0700 (PDT)
To: TSCM-L@tscm.com
Subject: TSCM-L Technical Security List
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/enriched


TSCM-L Technical Security List    Monday, June 8, 1998    Volume 1998
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Postings:           TSCM-L@tscm.com
Unsubscribe:   unsubTSCM-L@tscm.com
Subscribe:       subTSCM-L@tscm.com
Admin:		     jmatk@tscm.com

This material will only be sent to you upon your direct request, either by your 
email request, or by signing up via our web page. 

TSCM-L is published by Granite Island Group, and is written by James M. Atkinson.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

A telephone eavesdropping system was recently encountered which is being sold by a 
company in Pomezia, Italy. The system is for use on AT&T System 25, 75, and 85 PBX 
systems (other versions are available for 1030, 3070, Merlin, and Partner systems).

The first element of the system consists of a station card which has been built from 
scratch and appears almost identical to the original cards built by AT&T. There are 
no modifications on the card, and all components appear legitimate

The only visual difference between the cards is several additional integrated 
circuits, and discrete components. Additionally, on the silkscreen side of the card 
is a small logo consisting of an upper case letter E followed by a 7xx type of number 
(such as E-728). The logo will appear diagonally across the card from the serial 
number. Each station card will support 8 digital phones, and one outgoing circuit.

The second element of the system is the printed circuit board that goes into the 
actual telephone. Much like the station card the printed circuit board appears 
original but closer inspection will reveal a small number of extra components and 
PCB traces which go to the four pair position.

Suspect telephones will present an anomaly on the power and/or 4th pair. The 
signal is a digital data signal (usually 160 Kbps). Vector signal analysis will 
indicate a QAM/BPQSK cats-eye (a digital audio signal via a seven stage parasitic 
polynomial 1+x6+x7 algorithm). Waveform is a serial data stream, bipolar signal 
at roughly 700mV (680-715 mV depending on instrument). Power drain is fairly high 
(average of 136% over normal), but station card will not indicate an over-current 
condition or station error. 

Serial data stream is constant, and only affected by application of power. Signal 
stops if power is removed for more than 15 milliseconds. Disconnection of handset 
does not effect signal. Signal is present in both on-hook and off-hook conditions.

The third element of the system is a small modification to the PBX back plane which 
consists of two small wires which are tacked into place between the station card and 
the line card. This bridging circuit allows a T-Carrier signal to pass from the 
station card to an unused cable pair for an outgoing signal path (usually the 25th 
pair). This modification will appear to be a legitimate factory modification to the 
backplane.

The fourth element of the system is the transmission path back to the listening post 
(which will appear to be a T-1 signal, but will only use one cable pair). A RF 
transmitter could be used, however; such an emission would increase the possibility 
of the system being detected if used inside or near the target facility. A RF 
transmitter could be used once the signal is well outside the facility.

The transmission path will normally consist of a T-Carrier signal that can be traced 
to a facility demarcation point and then to an external cable pair. The signal will 
typically terminate at (or just prior to) an off-site SLC box. At this point the 
T-Carrier signal will be bridged back to a listening post either by hardwiring or 
an RF transmitter (though the use of a bridging capacitor to isolate the DC 
components of the circuit).

Faked power outages in the PBX or server room will typically be used to cover the 
installation activities. The installation consists of swapping the station card, 
and then installing the jumper wires on the back plane. While the power is still 
off the special printed circuit boards are installed into the target phones. 
Optionally, the telephone may simply be swapped with an instrument that has been 
modified in advance. Power is then restored with the event being logged as a short 
power outage (usually during bad weather or construction work).

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

French Magistrate Targets Official Wiretapper

PARIS, May 28 (Reuters) - A man who headed France's official wiretap
unit has been placed under investigation in connection with illegal
eavesdropping carried out on orders of the late President Francois
Mitterrand's office, judicial sources said on Thursday.

Army Brigadier General Pierre Charroy, 63, was ordered placed under
investigation for complicity in invasion of privacy in his capacity as
head of the discreetly named Interministerial Control Group (GIC) under
Mitterrand, the sources said.

The GIC is officially entrusted with carrying out wiretaps on the orders
of magistrates in cases of espionage or serious crimes. The body is so
shrouded with secrecy that it is not known if Charroy still heads it.

Former Mitterrand aides acknowledged last year that the late president,
who ruled from 1981-1995, had ordered security officers attached to his
office to carry out illegal wiretaps on the telephone lines of lawyers,
journalists, politicians and at least one movie actress.

The justice sources said magistrate Jean-Paul Vallat suspected Charroy
of having aided the presidential wiretappers who acted without the
permission of magistrates, making their actions illegal.

Prime Minister Lionel Jospin pledged in last year's general election
campaign to end an era of "monarchical secrecy" if he came to power and
to lift the lid on cases like possible illegal wiretapping under
Mitterrand, with whom Jospin was on poor terms.

Jospin has since been accused of dragging his feet on the promise since
he became prime minister and judge Vallat has written to ask for his
help in his probes.

Some 15 former Mitterrand aides are under investigation and could face
possible trial in the case.

Mitterrand died in 1996, seven months after leaving office.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The following pages which contain TSCM equipment reviews have been 
updated and are now available:

http://www.tscm.com/tmdespect.html

http://www.tscm.com/tmdeantenna.html

http://www.tscm.com/fluke785.html

http://www.tscm.com/tmdenljd.html

http://www.tscm.com/tmdedemod.html

http://www.tscm.com/tmdeacous.html

http://www.tscm.com/tmdeanc.html

http://www.tscm.com/tmdeaux.html

http://www.tscm.com/tmdecraft.html

http://www.tscm.com/tmdephot.html

http://www.tscm.com/tmdephys.html

http://www.tscm.com/tmdescope.html

http://www.tscm.com/tmdesets.html

http://www.tscm.com/tmdetdr.html

http://www.tscm.com/tmdevehcl.html

http://www.tscm.com/tmdevideo.html

http://www.tscm.com/tmdevom.html

http://www.tscm.com/tmdevsa.html

http://www.tscm.com/intercept1.html

http://www.tscm.com/reioscor.html

http://www.tscm.com/spectan.html

http://www.tscm.com/tmde.html

http://www.tscm.com/training.html

http://www.tscm.com/trainingciv.html

http://www.tscm.com/traininggov.html

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Granite Island Group
Mission and Purpose Statement

Granite Island Group provides expert technical, analytical and research

capability for the detection, nullification, and isolation of eavesdropping 
devices, technical surveillance penetrations, technical surveillance 
hazards, and physical security weaknesses.

Detection: Measures taken to detect technical surveillance devices, 
technical security hazards, and physical security weaknesses that would

permit the technical or physical penetration of a facility.

Nullification: The process of neutralizing or negating technical devices 
employed by making the placement of such devices more difficult. This 
includes ensuring that a room is protected with adequate physical 
construction and security measures thus making the placement or use of

illegal listening devices ineffective.

Isolation: A method to deter, or make extremely difficult, the 
introduction of eavesdropping devices by establishing special security

areas, for the conduct of classified or sensitive activities. 


Granite Island Group also provides:

Vulnerability Analysis to provide senior management with guidelines for

the enhancement of security and reduction of the vulnerability of 
sensitive areas to the technical surveillance threat.

Design, Manufacture, and Sale of TSCM, signals intelligence, cryptographic, 
and related secure communications systems and devices.

Research and Development of technical systems, devices, and tradecraft

utilized by the intelligence community.

Development of Specialized Computer Software and Firmware.

Design and Installation of high performance computer networks and 
communications systems.

Disaster Preparedness Planning 

Intelligence Analysis and activities to determine the existence and 
capability of surveillance equipment being used against the United 
States Government, United States corporations, establishments, or 
persons. Special emphasis is given to detecting and countering espionage 
and other threats and activities directed by foreign intelligence services.

Specialized Training for those in sensitive positions concerning the 
threat of technical surveillance and the part they can play in the TSCM

program. This includes advanced training and seminars for TSCM teams and 
technical security personnel.

Closed Enrollment Training regarding technical security and protective

related issues.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Copyright (c)1998 Granite Island Group. All Rights Reserved.




=======================================================================
Everybody's into computers... Who's into yours?
=======================================================================
James M. Atkinson                             Phone: (978) 546-3803
Granite Island Group - TSCM.COM
127 Eastern Avenue #291                        http://www.tscm.com/
Gloucester, MA 01931                               jmatk@tscm.com
=======================================================================
Do not try the patience of Wizards,
for they are subtle and quick to anger.
=======================================================================



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSqncrs@aol.com
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 01:45:20 -0700 (PDT)
To: Cypherpunks@toad.com (cool dudes)
Subject: Amway and Brave Combo Evidence Update
Message-ID: <81aeaeca.357ba471@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On that page I point to with the X-tian fish discussion, I linked the
"moderator nazi" with the right-wing because of his use of this symbol "&" to
replace the "And" in "Andy".  I have come to learn, it's got 2 meanings.  It
looks like the symbol for the "Know-nothing" movement is - "K & N".  Of
course, to know the significance of that, you have to know something about the
"Know-nothing" movement.  I think anyone that's ever observed many of the
lists around, will see some remarkable similarities.  Check this out -
====
Know-nothing (1827) 1 a : IGNORAMUS b: AGNOSTIC 2 cap K & N : a member of a
19th century secret American political organization hostile to the political
influence of recent immigrants and Roman Catholics

Know-nothingism (1854) 1 cap K & N : the principles and policies of the Know-
Nothings 2 : the condition of knowing nothing or desiring to know nothing or
the conviction that nothing can be known with certainty esp. in religion or
morality 3 often cap K & N : a mid-twentieth century political attitude
characterized by anti=intellectualism, exaggerated patriotism, and fear of
foreign subversive influences

Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, 10th edition
====
'Know-Nothing' Movement

U.S. political movement in the mid-19th cent. The increased immigration of the
1840s had resulted in concentrations of Roman Catholic immigrants in the
Eastern cities. The Democrats welcomed them, but local nativist societies were
formed to combat "foreign" influences and uphold the "American" view. The
American Republican party, formed (1843) in New York, spread to neighboring
states as the Native American party and became a national party in 1845. Many
secret orders sprang up, and when outsiders made inquiries of supposed
members, they were met with a statement that the person knew nothing; hence
members were called Know-Nothings. The Know-Nothings sought to elect only
native Americans to office and to require 25 years of residence for
citizenship. Allied with a faction of the WHIG PARTY, they almost captured New
York in the 1854 election and swept the polls in Massachusetts and Delaware.
In 1855 they adopted the name American party and dropped much of their
secrecy. The issue of slavery, however, split the party, and many antislavery
members joined the new REPUBLICAN PARTY. Millard FILLMORE, the American
party's presidential candidate in 1856, won only Maryland, and the party's
national strength was broken.

The Concise Columbia Encyclopedia is licensed from Columbia University Press.
Copyright (c) 1995 by Columbia University Press. All rights reserved.
====
Cypherpunks, these are the bastards that have control of congress.  If you are
serious about freedom, you must go out and register to vote, and you must vote
the real punks (Christian Coalition types (the CC is simply a front for the
Know-nothing movement, and I'll bet you now believe me. ;-) )) out of power.

They are the bastards that are controlling speech (and thought, IMHO) on that
Camelogue list (the Humpheads).  AND they were doing the same thing on that
Brave Combo list (The Bucketheads gang that I seem to have incapacitated.
Hey, can I say that I saved the Brave Combo?  ;-) )

And the evidence is on Brave Combo cds.  Not only the one that I'm on, but now
that I've gone in looking at it from this angle, I see they've been
documenting the invasion of the Bucketheads for 10 years.

It starts with Humansville with the cover showing a "the" 'beast', IMHO
raising it's ugly head out of the water.  Also on that one, is a song called
"Move" which starts with a message that was left on Jeffrey Barnes answering
machine one night, that threatened him to turn down his music.  There was no
music being played in his house that night.  They were trying to tell him to
censor the Brave Combo.  I haven't had a chance to search that album for other
stuff yet.  Those were the obvious things.

The theme continues for the next 4 Brave Combo (only (they were doing
collabarations also during this period)) studio releases.  Since yous guys are
Cypherpunks, I'm not gonna give you that many more clues (for right now, there
are some songs patterned after certain specific Bucketheads that you probably
won't get the connection, but if you think of various folk you've met on the
net, I'll bet you find some remarkable similarities in the
lyrics/titling/liner notes)

So, it continues on to the next ones (and in this order) -

Night On Earth
No No No-Cha Cha Cha
Polkas For A Gloomy World (BTW: Grammy nominated, lost (probably due to the
Know-nothings.  Study this one's liner notes VERY carefully (and Mystery Spot
Polka lyrics for sure))

And up to the one I'm on - 'Group Dance Epidemic - Fun ...... and Functional!'

Those are all excellent cds, but if you don't want to spend the money, all of
the lyrics are on the Discography page (http://www.brave.com/bo/discography/)
at the official website (which the Bucketheads still seem to have some control
of.  How do I know?  Guess which lyrics they DON'T have there.  The Jeffrey.
(and other reasons) I forced them to put the Mystery Spot Polka's lyrics up
there when I attempted to discuss it on the list (and I was censored.)  They
had to try to show that it wasn't being censored.)

So, I'll post my interpretation of The Jeffrey because of that -
=====
The Jeffrey
(Barnes, Cripps, Finch, Hernandez - Wise Monkey Music)

(Jeffrey (spoken)) I am the master of my own universe
And I dance just as good as I want to
======
I am a genius because I want to be
====
I have created a dance in my own image
Look at me!
======
I have written a song and dance just like me, I expect all BRAVE Combo fans to
look for it's meaning!  I'm not happy!  (see insert photo of the Part 1 (The)
Jeffrey)
====
(backup) One, two, three, four
======
I want you to analyze my song and dance line-by-line.
====
Nothing ((backup) Nada)
======
I'm waiting.  I've been waiting.
====
Amazing!
======
Wow!  Someone came along and analyzed my song, and (pretty much) nailed it!
====
How can you tell the dancer from the dance.
======
That is what is revealed by careful analysis of my song - how YOU can know
about certain-type of people that "lurk (dictionary definition)" the Brave
Combo list
====
(girl) moans - Oh, Oh, Oh Oh Jeff, your dance is devine
====
I like your song, Jeff (SERIOUSLY!  :-) (I really mean this, Combo fans! ;-)
))
======
Teach me to dance Jeffrey
====
I want to learn how to tell the difference between reality and perception of
reality
======
Move my body with your hands
====
Dazzle me with how simple it all is
======
How should I move my hips?
====
How can I learn how to do that?
======
(Jeffrey) Your hips will take care of themselves.
====
Jeffrey's answer - Join FreeGroup
(http://members.aol.com/whtsametau/FreeGroup.html) and/or Visit What's A Meta
U (http://members.aol.com/WhtsAMetaU/)
======
(backup (sung)) Your hips will take care of themselves
====
Hippies will take care of themselves
======
(Jeffrey) 'Hip'ssssssss
====
Hippies
======
Creator
====
Yes, he's the creator of his song and dance.  The song describes a dance
created by man, the "Know-nothing" movement (otherwise known around here as
the "Chicken" Coalition).  The dance is, well, I've already given you a hint
as to where that is, Cypherpunks!
======
Nowwwww.

Resume the active things!
====
Get off of your butts and stop being politically apathetic.  NOW!  Take these
guys out of power (they're preventing you from expressing yourself, and
they're trying with all their might to prevent Jeffrey (Carl, etc.) from
expressing himself)
======
(backup (sung)) Hips will take care of themselves

Hips
====
Hippies
======
I am the master of my own universe

And I dance just as good as I want to
====
I am a (UNDISPUTED) genius, because I used my own free will to decide to play
the 'United Snakes ... '  ;-) in the BRAVE Combo (he plays 2 saxaphones at the
same time.  In harmony)
======
I have created a dance in my own image
====
My song and dance is just like me.
======
LOOK AT ME!
====
He's Mad!  Only one Combo fan knowing the true meaning of his song and dance
is NOT good enough for a genius!  Analyze his song and dance.  He's waiting.

A review of recent history reveals that Brave Combo fans that truly 'get'
their music are HIGHLY rewarded.


(liner notes)

The band once discovered Jeffrey Barnes doing this dance all by himself in a
corner.  He denies all responsibility, as his conscious mind was elsewhere at
the time.

Part I

All dancers get on dance floor
(with great enthusiasm)

1.  Do nothing.
2.  Stand with your arms folded across your chest.
3.  Shift your weight from one leg to another
4.  Exhibit all symptoms of extreme boredom.

When this becomes unbearable, move on to Part II.
======
Part I represents 'closed-mindedness'/censorship/Bucketheads
====
Part II

1.  Put fist out with thumbs up.
2.  Attach your thumbs to turntables in your mind.
3.  Rotate your thumbs clockwise.
======
Check out the right
====
4.  Rotate your thumbs counter-clockwise.
======
Check out the left
====
5.  Your hips will want to wiggle, let them.
======
But Hippies will want to investigate things other than just left and right,
you better let them.  :-)
====
When this becomes unbearable, return to Part I.
======
Part II represents "open-mindedness"/freedom/Stan
====
Repeat Part I and Part II until you wish to stop.
======
So you Bucketheads can do your 'dance' for as long as you want, but while
you're doing that, us Hippies will take care of ourselves.

Stan
============
Various lines in there refer to various posts that I posted during that so-
called "flame" war.  If anyone wants to see a few of those, let me know.

"I want you to know", that compared to breaking the Buckethead gang, getting
on that cd meant very little to me, except, that it was designed as a tool for
me to use against the Know-nothings.

I think I'll go post that over on the Brave Combo list.  'Tis a shame that my
only audience, is the Bucketheads (and the Camelogue moderator nazi is lurking
(dictionary definition) the list.).  The Bucketheads ran everyone who wouldn't
"drink" with them off.

Guess what, Cypherpunks.  I'm betting that 95% of the music (probably other
forums as well (Republicans For All Americans is one I know about for sure))
lists (and websites) are in control of the "Know-nothings."  We have got to
get those kooks out of power, or it will be too late.

It's VERY possible that your favorite musicians are trying to send secret
messages out to thier fans through their music/lyrics and cover art, personal
notes, etc., on this very same subject matter.  Look for these clues to find
out if your favorite bands lists/websites have the same "pesky" problem.  They
can't tell you outright because they got Know-nothing goons watching 'em.
"That's all we know."

Serious shit, Sherlock(s)!

Stan






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 07:33:24 -0700 (PDT)
To: kalliste@aci.net>
Subject: Spiking keyboards, digital cash, appeals, shift registers
Message-ID: <357BF591.7D7@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Monday 6/8/98 7:53 AM

John Young

I am reading http://jya.com/sitesec.htm a bit more carefully.

You have NEVER WRITTEN SO MUCH.

Fishing was great.

I used a 

          $10 THE  INSTANT CALLING CARD [TM] 
          VOCALL COMMUNICATIONS CORP
	  The World's Most advanced prepaid Calling Card

which allows access with a pin of 718-2455-7091-xxx [my SECRET]
in ENGLISH, SPANISH, ARABIC, URDU, KOREAN, JAPANESE, GERMAN, 
FRENCH, ITALIAN to call you TWICE on Saturday.  At only $.14/min.

I left one message about Xandi and spiking computer keyboards.

Xandi MADE low-power transmitters, 

http://www.gernsback.com/HyperNews/get/forums/resource/226.html

like the kind I MIGHT use IF I were going to spike a keyboard [most
which use an 8051

 
http://www.apcatalog.com/cgi-bin/AP?ISBN=0125475705&LOCATION=US&FORM=FORM2]

so that the keystrokes would be broadcast.  

This, of course, defeats crypto attempts to cipher keystrokes.

But I DO NOT DO, or have to do, ILLEGAL THINGS for the FBI or any other
government agency.

I, as a DOE contractor employee, was protected under 10 CFR 708.
http://av.yahoo.com/bin/query?p=10+cfr+708&hc=0&hs=0

But 10 CFR 708 does not appear to be working well in my case. 

Therefore, we had to try other remedies.

VOCALL is getting real close to digital cash, one of Orlin Grabbe's 	
interests.  http://www.aci.net/kalliste/dcguide.htm

I have to do mostly technical work on the digital FX this week but will
try to
get two notices of appeal to the Tenth circuit written.
http://jya.com/whp043098.htm

Morales and I, with all the publicity you and Orlin have given us, can
go all the way to the Supreme Court with our genocide and crypto
deficiency lawsuits. http://jya.com/whpfiles.htm

Pro se, of course.

Too bad NSA did not take my criticisms of its shift register work
more constructively.  http://jya.com/da/whpda.htm,  click on Appendix S

Perhaps NSA should have worked with some of us at Sandia to come-up
with fixes to overcome deficiencies. This unpleasantness could have been
avoided.

I've had ideas to improve shift register algorithm operation before.
http://www-hto.usc.edu/software/seqaln/doc/html/gfsr.3.html

Let's all hope for settlement of this UNFORTUNATE matter before it
gets worse.

Later
bill






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 09:08:27 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Campaign Against Global War on Drugs
Message-ID: <199806081608.MAA00773@camel14.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


The New York Times today has a two-page ad:

"We believe the global war on drugs is now causing
more harm than drug abuse itself," with a letter to UN
Secretary General Annan signed by hundreds
from around the world, across the political spectrum.
Web site for list and invitation to sign:

   http://www.lindesmith.org/news/un.html

Public Letter to Kofi Annan

             June 1, 1998 

             Mr. Kofi Annan 
             Secretary General 
             United Nations 
             New York, New York 
             United States 

             Dear Secretary General, 

             On the occasion of the United Nations General Assembly Special
             Session on Drugs in New York on June 8-10, 1998, we seek your
             leadership in stimulating a frank and honest evaluation of global
             drug control efforts. 

             We are all deeply concerned about the threat that drugs pose to
             our children, our fellow citizens and our societies. There is no
             choice but to work together, both within our countries and across
             borders, to reduce the harms associated with drugs. The United
             Nations has a legitimate and important role to play in this
regard
             -- but only if it is willing to ask and address tough
questions about
             the success or failure of its efforts. 

             We believe that the global war on drugs is now causing more
             harm than drug abuse itself. 

             Every decade the United Nations adopts new international

             conventions, focused largely on criminalization and punishment,
             that restrict the ability of individual nations to devise
effective
             solutions to local drug problems. Every year governments enact
             more punitive and costly drug control measures. Every day
             politicians endorse harsher new drug war strategies. 

             What is the result? U.N. agencies estimate the annual revenue
             generated by the illegal drug industry at $400 billion, or the
             equivalent of roughly eight per cent of total international
trade.
             This industry has empowered organized criminals, corrupted
             governments at all levels, eroded internal security, stimulated
             violence, and distorted both economic markets and moral values.
             These are the consequences not of drug use per se, but of
             decades of failed and futile drug war policies. 

             In many parts of the world, drug war politics impede public
health
             efforts to stem the spread of HIV, hepatitis and other infectious
             diseases. Human rights are violated, environmental assaults
             perpetrated and prisons inundated with hundreds of thousands of
             drug law violators. Scarce resources better expended on health,
             education and economic development are squandered on ever
             more expensive interdiction efforts. Realistic proposals to
reduce
             drug-related crime, disease and death are abandoned in favor of
             rhetorical proposals to create drug-free societies. 

             Persisting in our current policies will only result in more drug
             abuse, more empowerment of drug markets and criminals, and
             more disease and suffering. Too often those who call for open
             debate, rigorous analysis of current policies, and serious
             consideration of alternatives are accused of "surrendering." But
             the true surrender is when fear and inertia combine to shut off
             debate, suppress critical analysis, and dismiss all
alternatives to
             current policies. Mr. Secretary General, we appeal to you to
             initiate a truly open and honest dialogue regarding the future of
             global drug control policies - one in which fear, prejudice and
             punitive prohibitions yield to common sense, science, public
             health and human rights. 

----------

There are a gang of heads of state gathering at the UN, with
cavalcades of limosines and guards racing around Manhattan
to indifference, except for me, the only one jumping hurray at the
sirens, whirling lights and bristling vans. All the SS guys facing 
backwards finger shot my middle digit aimed at them, then a 
sniper behind me put a red dot on it, scaring me shitless, I ran
home.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 11:50:42 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Update of Risks of Key Recovery Report
Message-ID: <199806081850.OAA09458@camel14.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


 http://www.cdt.org/crypto/risks98

The Risks of Key Recovery, Key Escrow, and Trusted Third-Party Encryption 1998

Hal Abelson
Ross Anderson
Steven M. Bellovin
Josh Benaloh
Matt Blaze
Whitfield Diffie
John Gilmore
Peter G. Neumann
Ronald L. Rivest
Jeffrey I. Schiller
Bruce Schneier

Final Report -- 27 May 1997
Updated -- June 8, 1998

----------

Introduction and CDT's press release:

   http://jya.com/risks98.htm




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mark Hedges 
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 14:56:39 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Campaign Against Global War on Drugs
In-Reply-To: <199806081608.MAA00773@camel14.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


And Marijuana remains California's number one cash crop as long as it is
illegal... documented way back when by Dukmejian's (sp) agriculture
secretary, whom he fired after the report. The cops cite you, confiscate it
and smoke it, and everyone's happy because they're all making $480 per
ounce from the end consumer on this crazy gene-engineered greenbud
designed, catalogued, and bred by the University of California biology
departments (esp. Santa Cruz). If it were legal, tobacco shops would stock
joints for a tenth the price... they need new markets with the stricter
tobacco legislation; maybe there's a lobby. I watched Dennis Peron battle
it out with some meat-fisted guy from the Sherrifs' orgs in Congress. The
cop went on about how

"if we decriminalize marijuana, marijuana would no longer be illegal"

and attempted to justify its classification with crack, methamphetamines
and heroin. He and Peron were two extremes. Peron, who drove the medical
marijuana bill and is also gay, runs under the republican ticket. So, I
voted for him in the open primary to screw up their statist ics. I had fun
with that open primary.

--mark--
-hedges-

>The New York Times today has a two-page ad:
>
>"We believe the global war on drugs is now causing
>more harm than drug abuse itself," with a letter to UN
>Secretary General Annan signed by hundreds
>from around the world, across the political spectrum.
>Web site for list and invitation to sign:
>
>   http://www.lindesmith.org/news/un.html
>
>Public Letter to Kofi Annan
>
>             June 1, 1998
>
>             Mr. Kofi Annan
>             Secretary General
>             United Nations
>             New York, New York
>             United States
>
>             Dear Secretary General,
>
>             On the occasion of the United Nations General Assembly Special
>             Session on Drugs in New York on June 8-10, 1998, we seek your
>             leadership in stimulating a frank and honest evaluation of global
>             drug control efforts.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Mon, 08 Jun 1998 19":user@ybecker.ribbetnet.cc
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 16:14:09 -0700 (PDT)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: Talk to me.
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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Call          011-592-565-093 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSqncrs@aol.com
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 16:01:42 -0700 (PDT)
To: Cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Campaign Against Global War on Drugs
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


In a message dated 6/8/98 5:34:38 PM Central Daylight Time, hedges@infonex.com
writes:

<< And Marijuana remains California's number one cash crop as long as it is
 illegal... documented way back when by Dukmejian's (sp) agriculture
 secretary, whom he fired after the report. The cops cite you, confiscate it
 and smoke it, and everyone's happy because they're all making $480 per
 ounce from the end consumer on this crazy gene-engineered greenbud
 designed, catalogued, and bred by the University of California biology
 departments (esp. Santa Cruz). If it were legal, tobacco shops would stock
 joints for a tenth the price... they need new markets with the stricter
 tobacco legislation; maybe there's a lobby. I watched Dennis Peron battle
 it out with some meat-fisted guy from the Sherrifs' orgs in Congress. The
 cop went on about how
 
 "if we decriminalize marijuana, marijuana would no longer be illegal" >>

It's illegal because of 1 reason.  The "Know-nothings" have control of the
illegal market.  It's how they invade the bands.  They create a dry spell, and
then they come around offering free/cheap smoke, gain the trust of the band,
and then they say - 'Say, could I create a little official webpage for you?
You need to be on the net anyway (the big lie).  I'll take care of it all for
you.'

Stan




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: user@e-bizness.com
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 01:50:04 -0700 (PDT)
To: user-@e-bizness.com
Subject: BULK EMAIL SERVER IS UP!
Message-ID: <93904039291232@hsd_hypothesis.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 12:41:35 -0700 (PDT)
To: william lewis <" Bill.Lewis"@hq.doe.gov>,       tyler przybylek 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Tuesday 6/9/98 1:10 PM

Lawyers

Morales and I met for lunch today to discuss legal strategies.

Morales is scheduled for a court hearing on Thursday.  Therefore,
it is time to increase the pressure.

These cases are not going away.

A fellow from Washington DC visited me some months ago.

The fellow told me that LOTS of people fighting with the IRS are
watching this pro se lawsuit seen at http://www.jya.com/whp052898.htm.

Reason I was told is that the IRS is using lawyers to go after
taxpayers.

Taxpayers NOW feel that either they have to pay what the IRS DEMANDS OR
get a lawyer to fight the IRS.

Hiring a lawyer is usually uneconomical.  And an ineffective way to
fight the US
government.

Readers of jya.com want to learn how to do pro se lawsuits EFFECTIVELY.

Morales and I are, of course, showing how to do pro se lawsuits
effectively
and inexpensively.

Morales and I are experienced at WINNING appeals at the Tenth Circuit.

http://jya.com/whp-10usca.htm

But we have yet to address the problem of Tenth Circuits awarding the
win to Sandia
when, in fact, Sandia lost on the common technicality of not filing its
Brief of the Appellees on time.

Sandia did not request an enlargement of time in both our cases.  In my
case Sandia falsified the certificate of service. 

Tenth Circuit rules forbid stamping FILED on late briefs where
permission to
file late is not requested at least five days prior to the deadline
date.

We will be getting around to filing criminal complaint affidavits on the
judges and clerks 
involved.  At the right time, of course.

But the time has come for Morales and I to file attached NOTICE OF
APPEALs.

We really should settle these unfortunate cases before matters get
WORSE.

Later
bill


                    UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT 
                 FOR THE DISTRICT OF NEW MEXICO 
 
 
William H. Payne        	   	    		              ) 
Arthur R. Morales                           			) 
                                            				) 
                Plaintiffs,                 			              ) 
                                            				) 
v                                           				)	CIV NO 97 0266  
							)	SC/DJS 
			                    			) 
Lieutenant General Kenneth A. Minihan, USAF 	              ) 
Director, National Security Agency	    		              ) 
National Security Agency		    		              ) 
                                            				) 
                Defendant                   			              ) 
 
 
NOTICE OF APPEAL  Santiago E. Campos MEMORANDUM OPINION AND ORDER FILED 98 APR 30  
AM 11:45 
 
1  COMES NOW plaintiffs Payne  and Morales [Plaintiffs] to exercise their rights under the 
 
Federal Rules of Appellate Procedure    http://www.ca5.uscourts.gov/docs/frap-iop.htm 
 
FRAP 4. APPEAL AS OF RIGHT--WHEN TAKEN    http://www.ca5.uscourts.gov/docs/frap-iop.htm#4 
 
  a) Appeal in a Civil Case. 
 
  (1) Except as provided in paragraph (a)(4) of this Rule, in a civil case in which an appeal is permitted by law    
  as of right from a district court to a court of appeals the notice of appeal required by Rule 3 must be filed with  
  the clerk of the district court within 30 days after the date of entry of the judgment or order appealed from;  
  but if the United States or an officer or agency thereof is a party, the notice of appeal may be filed by any  
  party within 60 days after such entry. If a notice of appeal is mistakenly filed in the court of appeals, the clerk  
  of the court of appeals shall note thereon the date when the clerk received the notice and send it to the clerk  
  of the district court and the notice will be treated as filed in the  district court on the date so noted. 
 
2  Defendant Minihan is officer of the United States. 
 
3  Plaintiff's appeal  
 
A   NOW, THEREFORE, IT IS ORDERED that sua sponte, Defendant is DEEMED by the Court to be the    
      NSA, and not Lt. Gen. Kenneth A. Minihan. Future captions for this case should reflect this change. 
 
B   IT IS FURTHER ORDERED that Defendant's Motion to Dismiss Plaintiff Morales is GRANTED. 
 
C   IT IS FURTHER ORDERED that Plaintiff's Motion for Summary Judgment Based on Evidence from   
     Admissions is DENIED as MOOT. 
 
seen at   http://jya.com/whp043098.htm   to the Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals. 
 
                    Respectfully submitted,  
  
  
 
	      William H. Payne             	   	      
                    13015 Calle de Sandias NE          	      
                    Albuquerque, NM 87111              	      
  
 			 
                     
                    Arthur R. Morales                             
                    1024 Los Arboles NW                          
                    Albuquerque, NM 87107                         
  
                    Pro se litigants  
  
  
               CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE  
  
I HEREBY CERTIFY that a copy of the foregoing memorandum
was mailed to Lieutenant General Kenneth A. Minihan, USAF, 
Director,  National Security Agency, National Security Agency, 
9800 Savage Road, Fort George G. Meade, MD 20755-6000 
and hand delivered to Jan E Mitchell, Assistant US Attorney, 
9 Floor, Bank of America Building, 4th and Tijeras, ABQ, NM 87102 
this Wednesday June 10, 1998. 



2





                    UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
                 FOR THE DISTRICT OF NEW MEXICO


William H. Payne        	 )
		   	 )
                Plaintiff,             )
                                          )
v                                        )	CIV NO 97 0266 
			 )	SC/DJS
			 )
National Security Agency	 )
			 )	               
                Defendant          )


NOTICE OF APPEAL from Santiago E. Campos MEMORANDUM OPINION AND ORDER  FILED
May 21, 1988 11:35

1  COMES NOW plaintiff Payne  [Plaintiff] to exercise his rights under the

Federal Rules of Appellate Procedure    http://www.ca5.uscourts.gov/docs/frap-iop.htm

FRAP 4. APPEAL AS OF RIGHT--WHEN TAKEN    http://www.ca5.uscourts.gov/docs/frap-iop.htm#4

  a) Appeal in a Civil Case.

  (1) Except as provided in paragraph (a)(4) of this Rule, in a civil case in which an appeal is permitted by law   
  as of right from a district court to a court of appeals the notice of appeal required by Rule 3 must be filed with 
  the clerk of the district court within 30 days after the date of entry of the judgment or order appealed from; 
  but if the United States or an officer or agency thereof is a party, the notice of appeal may be filed by any 
  party within 60 days after such entry. If a notice of appeal is mistakenly filed in the court of appeals, the clerk 
  of the court of appeals shall note thereon the date when the clerk received the notice and send it to the clerk 
  of the district court and the notice will be treated as filed in the  district court on the date so noted.

2  Defendant NSA is an agency of the United States.

3  Plaintiff appeals

  NOW, THEREFORE, IT IS ORDERED that Plaintiff's Motion to Amend should be, and is hereby, DENIED. 

seen at http://jya.com/whp052198.htm  to the Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals.


                    Respectfully submitted, 
 
 

	       William H. Payne             	   	     
                    13015 Calle de Sandias NE          	     
                    Albuquerque, NM 87111              	     

                    Pro se litigant
 
 
               CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE 
 
I HEREBY CERTIFY that a copy of the foregoing memorandum
was mailed to Lieutenant General Kenneth A. Minihan, USAF, 
Director,  National Security Agency, National Security Agency, 
9800 Savage Road, Fort George G. Meade, MD 20755-6000 
and hand delivered to Jan E Mitchell, Assistant US Attorney, 
9 Floor, Bank of America Building, 4th and Tijeras, ABQ, NM 87102 
this Wednesday June 10, 1998. 



2






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: cuceke80@sprintmail.com (IRA & 401K APPROVED!  REPLACE YOUR CD'S!)
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 06:50:32 -0700 (PDT)
To: cuceke80@sprintmail.com
Subject: GET 1% to 6% PER MONTH! Forget the Bank!!!!!!!!
Message-ID: <19980609193YAA41826@post.ibm.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


GET YOUR MONEY OUT OF THE BANK OR LOW INTEREST INVESTMENTS AND INTO OUR HIGH INTEREST INVESTMENT!
Funds are totally liquid.  You can make deposits or withdrawls from your account.  You get a monthly statement.  Our average return over the last five years is 58%.  Our worst year was 43%.  Our best year was 102%.  You pay no commissions, no fees and it's at no cost to you to open an account.  This is IRA approved and 401K approved.   To have information mailed call 954-421-2376. All
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "http://MusicBLVD.com/" 
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 15:57:34 -0700 (PDT)
To: musicblvd@sparklist.com
Subject: MUSIC BOULEVARD'S SUMMER BLOWOUT SALE!
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980609153459.0079d430@207.67.22.140>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Music Boulevard is having a Summer Blowout Sale in celebration of our new
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special bonus, shipping is FREE when you buy three items or more when
shipped within the U.S.

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http://www.musicblvd.com/cgi-bin/tw/2161_0_main.txt


TO UNSUBSCRIBE: To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send an email to: 
remove-musicblvd@sparklist.com and you will be automatically removed from
this list.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 2ancesca9@net.kitel.co.kr
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 16:36:43 -0700 (PDT)
To: 2ancesca9@net.kitel.co.kr
Subject: hi you
Message-ID: <199806092552RAA52171@abcd456.5.26.7>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




!!!!! YES YOUR XXXX PASSWORD AWAITS YOU !!!!!!
 
 > To get your password...

Just:

Click Here





................











..................//





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 16:00:35 -0700 (PDT)
To: kalliste@aci.net>
Subject: FILED 98 JUN-9 PM 3:13
Message-ID: <357DBE05.6960@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Tuesday 6/9/98 4:29 PM

John Young
J Orlin Grabbe

Attached is 

	FILED
	UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
	DISTRICT OF NEW MEXICO
	
	98 JUN-9 PM 3:13

	Robert M. March
	Clerk, ALBUQUERQUE

NOTICE OF APPEAL.

Morales will sign and I will file our joint appeal tomorrow.

Morales showed me an e-mail he received from Gilmore 
http://www.cygnus.com/~gnu/.

Gilmore apparently is not interested in pursuing a joint NSA fee waiver
lawsuit.

The public CAN UNDERSTAND a federal agency squandering their tax
dollars on a project which did not work out for the government.  Public
key chips.

Likewise, the public can understand how the government killed Iranians.
http://jya.com/whpfiles.htm

I conducted a survey on NON-TECHNICAL people to see if they understood
what the government did to Iran.  Everyone I talked to understood.

Trying to get much subtler with crypto with the public or even judges
might not work.

Judges or the public might give the government the benefit of the doubt
on the NATIONAL SECURITY/SECRECY issue.

We will see about this.  

National Security Agency Court Cases           May 27, 1998  
http://www.jya.com/nsa-cases.htm

Later
bill


                    UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
                 FOR THE DISTRICT OF NEW MEXICO


William H. Payne        	 )
		   	 )
                Plaintiff,             )
                                          )
v                                        )	CIV NO 97 0266 
			 )	SC/DJS
			 )
National Security Agency	 )
			 )	               
                Defendant          )


NOTICE OF APPEAL from Santiago E. Campos MEMORANDUM OPINION AND ORDER  FILED
May 21, 1988 11:35

1  COMES NOW plaintiff Payne  [Plaintiff] to exercise his rights under the

Federal Rules of Appellate Procedure    http://www.ca5.uscourts.gov/docs/frap-iop.htm

FRAP 4. APPEAL AS OF RIGHT--WHEN TAKEN    http://www.ca5.uscourts.gov/docs/frap-iop.htm#4

  a) Appeal in a Civil Case.

  (1) Except as provided in paragraph (a)(4) of this Rule, in a civil case in which an appeal is permitted by law   
  as of right from a district court to a court of appeals the notice of appeal required by Rule 3 must be filed with 
  the clerk of the district court within 30 days after the date of entry of the judgment or order appealed from; 
  but if the United States or an officer or agency thereof is a party, the notice of appeal may be filed by any 
  party within 60 days after such entry. If a notice of appeal is mistakenly filed in the court of appeals, the clerk 
  of the court of appeals shall note thereon the date when the clerk received the notice and send it to the clerk 
  of the district court and the notice will be treated as filed in the  district court on the date so noted.

2  Defendant NSA is an agency of the United States.

3  Plaintiff appeals

  NOW, THEREFORE, IT IS ORDERED that Plaintiff's Motion to Amend should be, and is hereby, DENIED. 

seen at http://jya.com/whp052198.htm  to the Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals.


                    Respectfully submitted, 
 
 

	       William H. Payne             	   	     
                    13015 Calle de Sandias NE          	     
                    Albuquerque, NM 87111              	     

                    Pro se litigant
 
 
               CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE 
 
I HEREBY CERTIFY that a copy of the foregoing memorandum
was mailed to Lieutenant General Kenneth A. Minihan, USAF, 
Director,  National Security Agency, National Security Agency, 
9800 Savage Road, Fort George G. Meade, MD 20755-6000 
and hand delivered to Jan E Mitchell, Assistant US Attorney, 
9 Floor, Bank of America Building, 4th and Tijeras, ABQ, NM 87102 
this Tuesday June 9, 1998. 




2






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Paul Kocher 
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 17:57:15 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Differential Power Analysis
Message-ID: <199806100055.RAA07091@proxy3.ba.best.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Information is now available online about three related attacks we 
have developed at Cryptography Research: Simple Power Analysis, 
Differential Power Analysis, and High-Order Differential Power 
Analysis. 

The basic idea of the attacks is that the power consumption of a 
device (such as a smartcard) is statistically correlated to the 
operations it performs.  By monitoring the power usage (or 
electromagnetic radiation, etc.) during cryptographic operations, it 
is possible to obtain information correlated to the keys.  The 
collected data is then analyzed to actually find the keys.  The three 
attacks use increasingly sophisticated analysis methods. 

We have implemented the attack against a large number of smartcards, 
and have found all to be vulnerable.  At this point, we do not 
believe that any smartcards on the market are immune to these 
analysis techniques. 

There is now an initial summary on Differential Power Analysis on our 
web page at http://www.cryptography.com/dpa, and more information 
will be put on the website as it becomes available.  A condensed text 
version is attached below.  At this point, it's fine to talk about 
this with anyone and to forward this message.  

Anything you can do to keep discussion of this technically accurate 
would be much appreciated. 

Regards,
Paul Kocher


---------------------------------------------------------------------

Introduction: Power Variation

Integrated circuits are built out of individual transistors, which 
act as voltage-controlled switches. Current flows across the 
transistor substrate when charge is applied to (or removed from) the 
gate. This current then delivers charge to the gates of other 
transistors, interconnect wires, and other circuit loads. The motion 
of electric charge consumes power and produces electromagnetic 
radiation, both of which are externally detectable. 

Therefore, individual transistors produce externally observable 
electrical behavior. Because microprocessor logic units exhibit 
regular transistor switching patterns, it is possible to easily 
identify macro-characteristics (such as microprocessor activity) by 
the simple monitoring of power consumption. DPA type attacks perform 
more sophisticated interpretations of this data. 



Simple Power Analysis (SPA)

In SPA attacks, an attacker directly observes a system's power 
consumption. The amount of power consumed varies depending on the 
microprocessor instruction performed. Large features such as DES 
rounds, RSA operations, etc. may be identified, since the operations 
performed by the microprocessor vary significantly during different 
parts of these operations. At higher magnification, individual 
instructions can be differentiated. SPA analysis can, for example, be 
used to break RSA implementations by revealing differences between 
multiplication and squaring operations. Similarly, many DES 
implementations have visible differences within permutations and 
shifts (e.g., the PC1 permutation or rotates of the C and D 

registers), and can thus be broken using SPA. While Cryptography 

Research found many smartcards to be vulnerable to SPA analysis, it 
is not particularly difficult to build SPA-resistant devices. 

The figure above [see web site] shows SPA monitoring from a single 
DES operation performed by a typical smartcard. The upper trace shows 
the entire encryption operation, including the initial permutation, 
the 16 DES rounds, and the final permutation. The lower trace is a 
detailed view of the second and third rounds. 



Differential Power Analysis (DPA)

DPA is a much more powerful attack than SPA, and is much more 
difficult to prevent. While SPA attacks use primarily visual 
inspection to identify relevant power fluctuations, DPA attacks use 
statistical analysis and error correction techniques to extract 
information correlated to secret keys. 

Implementation of a DPA attack involves two phases: Data collection 
and data analysis. Data collection for DPA may be performed as 
described previously by sampling a device's power consumption during 
cryptographic operations as a function of time. For DPA, a number of 
cryptographic operations using the target key are observed. 

The following steps provide an example of a DPA attack process for 
technical readers. (More detailed information will follow in the near 
future.) The following explanation presumes a detailed knowledge of 
the DES algorithm. 

  1.  Make power consumption measurements of the last few rounds of 
      1000 DES operations. Each sample set consists of 100000 data 
      points. The data collected can be represented as a two-
      dimensional array S[0...999][0...99999], where the first index 
      is the operation number and the second index is the sample. For 
      this example, the attacker is also assumed to have the 
      encrypted ciphertexts, C[0...999]. 

  2.  The attacker next chooses a key-dependent selection function D. 
      In this case, the selection function would have the form 
      D(Ki,C), where Ki is some key information and C is a 
      ciphertext. For the example, the attacker's goal will be to 
      find the 6 bits of the DES key that are provided as the input 
      to the DES S box 4, so Ki is a 6-bit input. The result of 
      D(Ki,C) would be obtained by performing the DES initial 
      permutation (IP) on C to obtain R and L, performing the E 
      expansion on R, extracting the 6-bit input to S4, XORing with 
      Ki, and using the XOR result as the input to the standard DES 
      S4 lookup operation. A target bit (for example, the most 
      significant bit) of the S result is selected. The P permutation 
      is applied to the bit. The result of the D(Ki,C) function is 
      set to 0 if the single-bit P permutation result and the 
      corresponding bit in L are equal, and otherwise D(Ki,C) yields 
      1. 

  3.  A differential average trace T[0...63][0...99999] is 
      constructed from the data set S using the results of the 
      function D. In particular:  [See web site for formula] 

  4.  The attacker knows that there is one correct value for Ki; 
      other values are incorrect. The attack goal is to identify the 

      correct value. In the trace T[i][0...99999] where i=Ki, 

      D(i,C[k]) for any k will equal the value of the target bit in L 
      of the DES operation before the DES F function result was 
      XORed. When the target device performed the DES operations, 
      this bit value was stored in registers, manipulated in logic 
      units, etc. -- yielding detectable power consumption 
      differences. Thus, for the portions of the trace T[i=Ki] where 
      that bit was present and/or manipulated, the sample set T[i] 
      will show power consumption biases. However, for samples T[i != 
      Ki], the value of D(i,C[k]) will not correspond to any 
      operation actually computed by the target device. As a result, 
      the trace T[i] will not be correlated to anything actually 
      performed, and will average to zero. (Actually, T[i != Ki] will 
      show small fluctuations due to noise and error that is not 
      statistically filtered out, and due to biases resulting from 
      statistical properties of the S tables. However, the largest 
      biases will correspond to the correct value of Ki.) 

  5.  The steps above are then repeated for the remaining S boxes to 
      find the 48 key bits for the last round. The attack can then be 
      repeated to find the previous round's subkey (or the remaining 
      8 bits can be found using a quick search.) 

While the effects of a single transistor switching would be normally 
be impossible to identify from direct observations of a device's 
power consumption, the statistical operations used in DPA are able to 
reliably identify extraordinarily small differences in power 
consumption. 

The figure below [see web site] is a DPA trace from a typical 
smartcard, showing the power consumption differences from selecting 
one input bit to a DES encryption function used as a random number 
generator. (The function of D was chosen to equal the value of 
plaintext bit 5.) The input initial permutation places this bit as 
part of the R register, affecting the first-round F function 
computation and results. Round 2 effects (due to the use of counter 
mode) are also strong. The trace was produced using 1000 
measurements, although the signals would be discernable with far 
fewer. 



High-Order Differential Power Analysis (HO-DPA)

While the DPA techniques described above analyze information across a 
single event between samples, high-order DPA may be used to correlate 
information between multiple cryptographic suboperations. Naive 
attempts to address DPA attacks can introduce or miss vulnerabilities 
to HO-DPA attacks. 

In a high-order DPA attack, signals collected from multiple sources, 
signals collected using different measuring techniques, and signals 
with different temporal offsets are combined during application of 
DPA techniques. Additionally, more general differential functions (D) 
may be applied. More advanced signal processing functions may also be 
applied. The basic HO-DPA processing function is thus a more general 
form of the of the standard DPA function, for example:   [see web 
site for formula]


Today HO-DPA are primarily of interest to system implementers and 
researchers, since no actual systems are known that are vulnerable to 

HO-DPA that are not also vulnerable to DPA. However, DPA 
countermeasures must also address HO-DPA attacks to be effective. 



Solving the Problems 

Cryptography Research has undertaken a substantial development effort 
to understand hardware security issues and their countermeasures. 
Cryptography Research has pending patents directed to the 
technologies and techniques below. 

DPA and related attacks span the traditional engineering levels of 
abstraction. While many previously-known cryptanalytic attacks (such 
as brute force) can be analyzed by studying cryptographic algorithms, 
DPA vulnerabilities result from transistor and circuit electrical 
behaviors which propagate to expose logic gates, microprocessor 
operation, and software implementations. This ultimately compromises 
the cryptography. 

Techniques for addressing DPA and related attacks can be incorporated 
at a variety of levels: 

Transistor: No feasible alternatives to semiconductors are available 
today, but alternate computation technologies (such as pure optical 
computing) may exist in the future. Cryptography Research has 
developed gate-level logic designs that leak substantially less 
information. 

Circuit, Logic, Microprocessor, and Software: In physically large 
systems, well-filtered power supplies and physical shielding can make 
attacks infeasible. For systems with physical or cost constraints, 
Cryptography Research has developed hardware and software techniques 
that include ways of reducing the amount of information leaked, 
introducing noise into measurements, decorrelating internal variables 
from secret parameters, and temporally decorrelating cryptographic 
operations. In applications where attackers do not have physical 
possession of the device performing cryptographic operations, such 
techniques can be effective. However, because externally-monitorable 
characteristics remain fundamentally correlated to cryptographic 
operations, we do not recommend these approaches as a complete 
solution for applications where attackers might gain physical 
possession of devices. 

Software and Algorithms: The most effective solution is to design and 
implementing cryptosystems with the assumption that information will 
leak. Cryptography Research has developed approaches for securing 
existing cryptographic algorithms (including RSA, DES, DSA, Diffie-
Hellman, ElGamal, and Elliptic Curve systems) to make systems remain 
secure even though the underlying circuits may leak information. In 
cases where the physical hardware leaks excessively, the leak 
reduction and masking techniques are also required.



_____________________________________________________________________
Paul Kocher                          President, Cryptography Research
Tel: 415-397-0123 (FAX: -0127)             870 Market St., Suite 1088
E-mail: paul@cryptography.com                 San Francisco, CA 94102


_____________________________________________________________________
Paul Kocher                          President, Cryptography Research
Tel: 415-397-0123 (FAX: -0127)             870 Market St., Suite 1088
E-mail: paul@cryptography.com                 San Francisco, CA 94102




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: hello@asianet.co.th
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 13:58:58 -0700 (PDT)
To: (Recipient list suppressed)
Subject: This is fun!!!
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980610010242.007cf180@classic.asianet.co.th>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hi,

Would you like to send someone a letter from Bangkok ?
Well, you can! Put the letter to be remailed in a 
larger envelope with U.S.$3 cash and I will post it
from Bangkok bearing a Bangkok postmark to any country
in the world. If you want the letter to be registered
then enclose U.S.$4 cash. I will pay the postage from 
the enclosed fee. The letter must be lightweight air-
mail only containing not more than 2 sheets of writing
paper. Here's the address...

Snailer
P.O. Box 3,
Bang Or, 10704, 
Bangkok, Thailand.
...

Please register your mail to me. 

A must for secret lovers.

Great for practical jokes and pranksters.

Inform your boss what you think about his ideas.

Tell your ex-wife/husband you're living in Bangkok.

Go on, give it a try it's great fun.

You can put as many envelopes in the larger one
as you like but you must enclose the fee for 
each remailed item. The 10th one goes free!

Mail to be remailed is sent the same day I
receive it unless you specify a date for it to be 
remailed.

No rcords kept and you are completely anonymous
to me so don't put your name and address on any
of the envelopes.

Have fun!!!
***********







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: net138@mail.domain-serv.com
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 03:31:13 -0700 (PDT)
To: Internet_Presence@natmed.com
Subject: Don't Risk Losing That Great Domain Name!
Message-ID: <199806100952.CAA05729@outlook.domain-serv.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


*********************************************************************
Don't Risk Losing That Great Domain Name For 
Your Personal Or Business Use.
*********************************************************************

Register your Domain Name for a one time fee of $35.00.
Planet Net's Domain Registration Services will not only 
register your domain name, but for no monthly charge, 
allow you to use the Planet Net Name Service. When you 
are ready to post your web site or use your domain for 
mail, The decision is up to you; select another website 
hosting company or Host with Planet Net.  We'll even 
waive the set-up fees. Also available are packages with 
custom "under construction" pages and mail services allowing
you to use your new domain for e-mail.

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offers high performance Website Hosting and Dedicated 
Servers. Lightning fast 30 MB virtual web hosting packages 
starting at $19.99/Month. Reseller packages with domain hosting
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Sign-up before June 30, 1998 and receive up to 3 Free months 
of web site hosting.

If you would like to check the availability of your domain name or 
learn more about Planet Net type the following address in your web browser.

http://www.serveramerica.com

See You On The Net!!






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSqncrs@aol.com
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 03:54:22 -0700 (PDT)
To: Cypherpunks@toad.com (cool dudes)
Subject: Moderator Nazi Update!
Message-ID: <537518a2.357e659f@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Cypherpunks, I may've found a 3rd picture of my "Moderator Nazi".

I have it posted here with the others at -
http://members.aol.com/WhtsAMetaU/ofir.html

I'd like expert opinion from the Cypherpunks (and any FBI agents that may
happen to be lurking the list :-), actually, ESPECIALLY any FBI agents that
may be working the list ;-) ) as to whether you think it's the same person.
Look at it as if he's losing weight over the years.

Write me in private if you wish, and thanks in advance!

Stan




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Global Web Builders 
Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 19:38:49 -0700 (PDT)
To: (Recipient list suppressed)
Subject: Media lies exposed
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980610022819.00b397f4@mail.pronet.net.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


G'day One Nation supporters in NSW

Channel 9 has embarked on a blatant campaign of misinformation against One
Nation over the last two weeks.

The timing in the lead up to the Queensland State election and the resulting
impact on voters cannot be ignored by ANY Australian who believes in freedom
of speech and the democracy that we hold so dear.

Ray Martin exposed:

http://www.gwb.com.au/un.html

60 Minutes discredited:

http://www.gwb.com.au/60.html

Below is a copy of an article that appeared in Perth's Sunday times recently.

GWB



Scott Balson

Judge says no to black state
by Joe Poprzeonzy

A former Chief Justice of the Australian High Court has urged that any
claims by activists for the creation of a separate Aboriginal nation or
independent black states be rejected.

Sir Harry Gibbs said Arnhein Land, parts of central Australia,, north west
WA, islands in the Torres Strait or off northern Australia would be targeted
for Aboriginal independence.

In a keynote address yesterday at a Perth meeting of the influential
conservative group, the Samuel Griffith Society, he said separate laws were
emerging in Australia to cover black and white Australians.

"There is no doubt that any claims by the Aborigional peoples to determine
their own political status, and to assert a right to sovereignty or
independence, must be rejected as contrary to the interests of Australia as
a whole," Sir Harry said.

"Just as any attempt to put the Aboriginal peoples outside the Australian
nation must be firmly opposed, so should any attempt to grant statehood, or
any degree of autonomy to any particular group or Aboriginal people.

"It would obviously be impracticable... to grant sovereign or dominant power
to the Aboriginal people in areas such as country towns in which persons
entirely of European descent were as numerous as the descendants of the
Aboriginal people, many of whom would themselves have had European ancestors.

"Experience elsewhere has shown that associations of States, Federal or
otherwise, do not endure when one state is composed of persons distinctly
different in race, religion or culture from those of another.

"The future existence of Australia would be put at risk if statehood or any
form of autonomy were granted to small communities chosen on the grounds of
race in areas of great strategic importance to this country."

Sir Harry who was Chief Justice of Australia between 1981 and 1987 said some
people were arguing that there was a right of self-determination within
countries. He said groups were working within the UN for the development of
such doctrines.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 13:54:36 -0700 (PDT)
To: jy@jya.com
Subject: Second Notice of Appeal FILED
Message-ID: <357EF1F0.6569@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Wednesday 6/10/98 2:34 PM

John Young 

The second attached NOTICE OF APPEAL was stamped

              FILED
	UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
	DISTRICT OF NEW MEXICO
	
	98 JUN 10 AM 9:52

	Robert M. March
	Clerk, ALBUQUERQUE

I put stamped copies of both in the mail to you.

The government only MAYBE understands FORMAL actions.

Informal actions, like letters etc, go into the waste paper basket.

Even formal actions such as the FOIA, PA, lawsuit, and criminal
complaint
affidavit the government will try to BLACK HOLE.

While, naturally, we would like to settle this unfortunate matter so
that we
can all get on to more constructive pursuits, it appears that we will be
doing
a FORMAL ACTION at least TWICE through the Tenth Circuit court of 
appeals.

Later
bill


                    UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT 
                 FOR THE DISTRICT OF NEW MEXICO 
 
 
William H. Payne        	   	    		              ) 
Arthur R. Morales                           			) 
                                            				) 
                Plaintiffs,                 			              ) 
                                            				) 
v                                           				)	CIV NO 97 0266  
							)	SC/DJS 
			                    			) 
Lieutenant General Kenneth A. Minihan, USAF 	              ) 
Director, National Security Agency	    		              ) 
National Security Agency		    		              ) 
                                            				) 
                Defendant                   			              ) 
 
 
NOTICE OF APPEAL  Santiago E. Campos MEMORANDUM OPINION AND ORDER FILED 98 APR 30  
AM 11:45 
 
1  COMES NOW plaintiffs Payne  and Morales [Plaintiffs] to exercise their rights under the 
 
Federal Rules of Appellate Procedure    http://www.ca5.uscourts.gov/docs/frap-iop.htm 
 
FRAP 4. APPEAL AS OF RIGHT--WHEN TAKEN    http://www.ca5.uscourts.gov/docs/frap-iop.htm#4 
 
  a) Appeal in a Civil Case. 
 
  (1) Except as provided in paragraph (a)(4) of this Rule, in a civil case in which an appeal is permitted by law    
  as of right from a district court to a court of appeals the notice of appeal required by Rule 3 must be filed with  
  the clerk of the district court within 30 days after the date of entry of the judgment or order appealed from;  
  but if the United States or an officer or agency thereof is a party, the notice of appeal may be filed by any  
  party within 60 days after such entry. If a notice of appeal is mistakenly filed in the court of appeals, the clerk  
  of the court of appeals shall note thereon the date when the clerk received the notice and send it to the clerk  
  of the district court and the notice will be treated as filed in the  district court on the date so noted. 
 
2  Defendant Minihan is officer of the United States. 
 
3  Plaintiffs appeal  
 
A   NOW, THEREFORE, IT IS ORDERED that sua sponte, Defendant is DEEMED by the Court to be the    
      NSA, and not Lt. Gen. Kenneth A. Minihan. Future captions for this case should reflect this change. 
 
B   IT IS FURTHER ORDERED that Defendant's Motion to Dismiss Plaintiff Morales is GRANTED. 
 
C   IT IS FURTHER ORDERED that Plaintiff's Motion for Summary Judgment Based on Evidence from   
     Admissions is DENIED as MOOT. 
 
seen at   http://jya.com/whp043098.htm   to the Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals. 
 
                    Respectfully submitted,  
  
  
 
	      William H. Payne             	   	      
                    13015 Calle de Sandias NE          	      
                    Albuquerque, NM 87111              	      
  
 			 
                     
                    Arthur R. Morales                             
                    1024 Los Arboles NW                          
                    Albuquerque, NM 87107                         
  
                    Pro se litigants  
  
  
               CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE  
  
I HEREBY CERTIFY that a copy of the foregoing memorandum
was mailed to Lieutenant General Kenneth A. Minihan, USAF, 
Director,  National Security Agency, National Security Agency, 
9800 Savage Road, Fort George G. Meade, MD 20755-6000 
and hand delivered to Jan E Mitchell, Assistant US Attorney, 
9 Floor, Bank of America Building, 3rd and Tijeras, ABQ, NM 87102 
this Wednesday June 10, 1998. 




2






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 2ncesca9@net.kitel.co.kr
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 09:51:16 -0700 (PDT)
To: 2ncesca9@net.kitel.co.kr
Subject: hello hello !!
Message-ID: <199806102819IAA55011@abcd456.246.250.46>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




!!!!! YES YOUR XXXX PASSWORD AWAITS YOU !!!!!!
 
 > To get your password...

Just:

Click Here





................











..................//




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 14:00:48 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: backdoor trojan in ICKill
Message-ID: <199806102100.XAA27780@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


----Forwarded text--------------------------------------------------
Subject: backdoor trojan in ICKill
   Date: Sun, 7 Jun 1998 19:44:28 -0400
   From: Bachrach 
     To: BUGTRAQ@NETSPACE.ORG

    First off, I'm not 100% sure if this is the apropriate forum for
this
since it's not really a weakness, but rather a programmer who is putting
backdoors
into some programs. Then again technically that's an exploits... Oh I
don't know. If this is the wrong place then I apologize profusely for
the
waste of bandwidth and plead ignorance, but here goes:
    Well, chances are none of you guys have ever used this program, or
even
heard of it, but there are alot (35,000) of people who have. I
originally
downloaded it becasue I've been researching a lot of the weaknesses in
the
ICQ protocol, (which has become easier as time has gone on. :)) Anyway,
after
you run it, (ICKill), it creates a file in the directory called 1.exe
that
acts as a
fake explorer. 1.exe accesses your regedit database, and copies itself
to
windows/system. It changes the regedit so that the fake one will run on
startup. It acts mostly the same as the normal explorer with one very
crucial execption. It contacts a host (I still can't figure out which
one),
and executes the commands that are embedded within a text file on the
computer. Anyone see it yet? Backdoor city. I contacted the author (who
left
his e-mail address in the readme), and he's the one who explained th
backdoor thing. He also told me a few other things that made me write up
to
this group.
    He said that he had gotten almost 35,000 different people's systems
calling up his computer at one point; essentuially he has backdoors to
35,000 systems accross the globe. When I asked him why he would go
through
all the trouble to do this he gave me two reasons:
1. IF (and he emphasized the if) he was a hacker he could use a couple
of
other people's computers as hops when hacking into a system. Kind of
nasty
for the sysadmin trying to trace a breaking huh?
2. To quote him "And the backdoors can auto-uptade themselves.. so
Imagine I
can code a virus like backdoor... Whoaaa! This will be like THAT
internet
worm.."
3. He also said "Imagine also.. 35,000 backdoored (yeah, I reached this
number)
connections pinging or SYN flooding some server.."

Well if anyone out there is using or has ever used ICKill then get rid
of
it. I have actually set up a page on this to both inform people and
explain
how to get rid of all traces of the program that I currently am able to
at
http://members.tripod.com/~hakz/ICQ/index.html That site also has all of
the
letters I wrote to him and he wrote to me if you want to see the entire
things. It's also got some other info I couldn't fit into this message,
including all of the mistakes the author made (guess he needed better
beta
testing). My
last question is this: if one person has backdoors into thousands of
computer systems, doesn't that pose some sort of risk to the interent
community as a whole? There's one person who's been saying that I should
notify the FBI about this. As you can see  decided to start here first.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Zane Lewkowicz 
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 15:23:36 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: [SPAM]  No really.  It _is_ spam.  It's spam, i tell you.  You've been warned!
Message-ID: <199806102223.AAA20590@xs2.xs4all.nl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


From: incognito@incognito.com
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998
To: (Recipient list suppressed)
Subject: This is fun!!!

Hi,

Would you like to send someone a letter from Bangkok?
Well, you can! Put the letter to be remailed in a 
larger envelope with US$3 cash and I will post it from 
Bangkok bearing a Bangkok postmark to any country in 
the world. If you want the letter to go registered then 
enclose US$4 cash. I will pay the postage from the 
enclosed fee. The letter must be lightweight air-mail 
only containing not more than 2 sheets of writing paper. 

Here's the address...

Incognito
P.O. Box 3,
10704, Bang Orr, 
Bangkok, Thailand.
...

Please register your mail to me.
- --------------------------------

A must for secret lovers.

Great for practical jokes and pranksters.

Inform your boss what you think about her/his ideas.

Tell your ex-wife/husband you're living in Bangkok.

Go on, give it a try it's great fun.

You can put as many envelopes in the larger one
as you like but you must enclose the fee for 
each remailed item. The 10th letter goes free!

Here's another way...

1. Send US$10 cash and I'll send you three picture
   postcards of various places in Thailand. I send 
   them to you and you write them out and post back
   to me for remailing. 

Or...

2. Enclose a slip of paper with the US$10 giving 
   details of names and addresses and messages to 
   go on the three postcards.

Mail to be remailed is sent the same day it is
received unless you specify a date for it to be 
remailed.

No records kept and you are completely unknown
to me so don't put your name and address on any
of the envelopes.

Please send a copy of this email to your friends. 

Have fun!!!
***********




------- End of Forwarded Message





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSqncrs@aol.com
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 23:53:31 -0700 (PDT)
To: Cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Nobody Report
Message-ID: <3b5db7e4.357f7ec6@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


So 'Nobody' (Tim May) has joined FreeGroup.  Of course, shortly after that he
revealed himself (in multiple fuckups) and he tried to cause a big ruckus, but
that's no big deal.  Actually, the alias that he joined the group under seems
to be pretty nice guy (when he's not abusing the addressing. ;-) )

So, all's well that ends well, or is it, Tim?  [BIG GRIN!]

Stan,
FreeGroup - "Just Say It!"
http://members.aol.com/WhtsAMetaU/FreeGroup.html




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: properties@hotmail.com
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 06:01:58 -0700 (PDT)
To: SUCCESS@NOWHERE.COM
Subject: BUSINESS OPPORTUNITY
Message-ID: <306724452//JHGREW101>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


IF YOU ARE NOT MAKING IN THE HIGH  (6) FIGURES, REPLY WITH YOUR FAX NUMBER . OFFSHORE TRUST HIRING AGENTS TO MARKET GUARNTEED  HIGH INTEREST TO THE CLIENT AND AGENTS.
WE HAVE AGENTS MAKING IN EXCESS $1,000,000.00 PER YEAR NOT WORKING
FULL TIME.   YOU CAN HIRE OTHER AGENTS ALONE AND EARN IN THE (6)
FIGURES BY JUST RECEIVING THE 4%  OVERRIDE ON THE RECRUITED AGENTS
BUSINESS. YOU ARE 100% PROTECTED BY HAVING THE RECRUITED AGENT
SIGN THE APPLICATION AND YOU ALSO SIGN IT WITH HIM AS THE RECRUITER
AND YOU AS THE RECRUITER SEND IN THE APPLICATION     .ANY ONE OUTSIDE
OF THE USA PLEASE SEND ALONG WITH YOUR FAX NUMBER, YOUR COUNTRY
CODE.  THANKS




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Gilmore 
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 12:16:50 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks
Subject: President's Export Council Subcommittee on Encryption: June 22
Message-ID: <199806111916.MAA25195@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


[It might be interesting for DC-area cypherpunks to visit and see
what they're doing.  This council was appointed to advise the
Commerce Dept and the President about export of encryption.  --gnu]

President's Export Council Subcommittee on Encryption Meeting

June 22, 1998
Ronald Reagan Building, 1300 Pennsylvania Ave. NW, Washington DC
Conference Room Hemisphere A

Agenda

9.00       Opening Remarks
		   Chair of the Subcommittee
	   Public Comments

9.30       BXA Updates
		    William Reinsch

10.00      Legislative Panel Briefing
		   unpublished as to who will be doing the briefing

11.00      Closed Session

4.00       Open to public  Rm 4832
	   Commerce Department Briefing by each of the 3 Working       
		   Groups on the topic

4.45       End




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 12:33:27 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: AF Docs on Comsec and Intel
Message-ID: <199806111933.PAA05189@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


The USAF offers hundreds of documents at its Electronic
Publications site:

   http://afpubs.hq.af.mil/elec-products/pubs-pages/

We've mirrored listings for dozens of docs in two categories:

Communications and Information:

   http://www.jya.com/af-33-pubs.htm

Intelligence:

   http://www.jya.com/af-14-pubs.htm

And, in case there's difficulty accessing, we've mirrored:

"Instruction on the Operation of the STU-III":

   http://www.jya.com/33020900.pdf  (534K PDF)

"Cryptographic Access":

   http://www.jya.com/33021000.pdf  (129K PDF)

"Emission Security":

   http://www.jya.com/33020300.pdf  (296K PDF)

"Controlled Access Program":

   http://www.jya.com/33022900.pdf  (170K PDF)

"Sources of Intelligence":

   http://www.jya.com/af-intel.htm






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Bert-Jaap Koops" 
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 08:22:48 -0700 (PDT)
To: ukcrypto@maillist.ox.ac.uk
Subject: Crypto Law Survey updated
Message-ID: <920DAEE2DA7@frw3.kub.nl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I have just updated my survey of existing and envisaged cryptography
laws and regulations. See the Crypto Law Survey at
http://cwis.kub.nl/~frw/people/koops/lawsurvy.htm

This update includes:
-update on Wassenaar (to be revised), EU (proposal for new
     dual-use regulation; Copenhagen hearing; ETSI rejects RH;
     law-enforcement policy paper), Birma (domestic regulation),
     Brazil (no regulation plans), Germany (no regulation before
     elections), Kazakhstan (domestic controls), Malaysia (CA's must
     decrypt during search), Pakistan (regulation on sale and use),
     Spain (export), Sweden (export), US (Karn; Junger; new version
     Kerrey-McCain; Gore letter) 

- URLs added to EU (conditional access
     regulation), US (BXA Annual Report; Junger page) 

I have also started a mailing list to announce updates, to 
which you can subscribe by sending a message to 
 with subject "subscribe CLS-update".

Kind regards,
Bert-Jaap

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Bert-Jaap Koops                         tel     +31 13 466 8101
Center for Law, Administration and      facs    +31 13 466 8149
Informatization, Tilburg University     e-mail  E.J.Koops@kub.nl
                  --------------------------------------------------
Postbus 90153    |  This world's just mad enough to have been made  |
5000 LE Tilburg  |    by the Being his beings into being prayed.    |
The Netherlands  |                (Howard Nemerov)                  |
---------------------------------------------------------------------
         http://cwis.kub.nl/~frw/people/koops/bertjaap.htm
---------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 21:28:56 -0700 (PDT)
To: Bachrach 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980611174656.008163d0@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 11:00 PM 6/10/98 +0200, a remailer user forwarded
a message From: Bachrach 
about a major security backdoor in ICKill, a utility that
apparently augments or hangs around ICQ - it's a little-documented
feature designed into the system rather than a bug or unexpected behaviour.
More information is at
> http://members.tripod.com/~hakz/ICQ/index.html 
...
>My last question is this: if one person has backdoors into thousands of
>computer systems, doesn't that pose some sort of risk to the interent
>community as a whole? There's one person who's been saying that I should
>notify the FBI about this. As you can see  decided to start here first.

Don't tell the FBI - they'll just want to use it themselves.  :-!

Is there some way to locate and reach ICKill users directly?
Do they show up on ICQ in some useful manner?
(I don't use either of the products....)  Directly notifying them
could help the problem, or at least generate a number of
emails to the author who put the feature in there.

				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "rocker" 
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 20:22:38 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: Masterkey
Message-ID: <000901bd95b1$143660e0$0c2bd3cf@nick>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Hello,
 
    I have been trying 
for the last 3 months trying to get a copy of masterkey. I read an artical you 
put on eff.org about masterkey, and how you used it. I was wondering if you 
could tell me were to go and get masterkey or if you could send it to me vie 
E-MAIL or just what. 
 
                                            
W/B
                                            
Rocker


From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Dark Knight 
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 23:04:32 -0700 (PDT)
To: Bill Stewart 
Subject: Re: FWD: backdoor trojan in ICKill
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980611174656.008163d0@popd.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


> At 11:00 PM 6/10/98 +0200, a remailer user forwarded
> a message From: Bachrach 
> about a major security backdoor in ICKill, a utility that
> apparently augments or hangs around ICQ - it's a little-documented
> feature designed into the system rather than a bug or unexpected behaviour.
> More information is at
> > http://members.tripod.com/~hakz/ICQ/index.html 
> ....
> >My last question is this: if one person has backdoors into thousands of
> >computer systems, doesn't that pose some sort of risk to the interent
> >community as a whole? There's one person who's been saying that I should
> >notify the FBI about this. As you can see  decided to start here first.
> 
> Don't tell the FBI - they'll just want to use it themselves.  :-!
> 
> Is there some way to locate and reach ICKill users directly?
> Do they show up on ICQ in some useful manner?
> (I don't use either of the products....)  Directly notifying them
> could help the problem, or at least generate a number of
> emails to the author who put the feature in there.

Well the way I see it the author of ICKill told the company that puts out
ICQ that you have this problem and you need to fix it..  The way he's
looking at it is fix this because it's a problem.  They did not fix it
after his requests to have them fix this so he shared it.  I don't think
he did anything wrong in this case.  Any way like the FBI could figure out
how to use it I don't give them that much credit as it is.  

			|)ark |(night

DEFINITION.
Windows 95: n.   32 bit extensions and a graphical shell for a
16 bit patch to an 8 bit operating system originally coded for
a 4 bit microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that can't
stand 1 bit of competition.

Http://www.EliteHackers.org/DarkKnight






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 04:50:58 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: 1,500,000 EMAIL ADDRESSES - $15 !!! ALL FRESH!
Message-ID: <989.283923.142588 lists@mailbuggy.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


HERE IT IS!!  The earnings pontential you have been looking for!  We will 
provide you with 1.5 MILLION EMAIL ADDRESSES FOR ONLY $15. These are all 
fresh addresses with no duplications. They are all sorted and ready to be 
mailed. This is the best deal anywhere today for email lists!  Imagine 
selling a product for only $10 and getting only a 1/100 response. That's 
$150,000!!!  Money making plans, reports, lists, jewelry, art, etc. Whatever 
you wish to sell!  People are making millions of dollars right now by doing 
the same thing! That is why you get so much email from people selling you 
their product....it works! These 1.5 Million email addresses are yours to 
keep, so you can use them over and over and they come on disk or by 
email....your choice. 

If you do not have a program capable of sending bulk email please note it on 
your order form and we will show you where you can download one for free.  We 
will also show you how you can avoid using your ISP's smtp mail server for 
mailing by using software that turns your personal computer into your very 
own personal mail server!

Simply print out this completed order form and send it to us along with your 
check or money order made payable to: F.T.W.I. for only $15.  We also accept 
Visa and Mastercard.  

Send addresses via (circle one):
     EMAIL              MAIL (add $3 for shipping and handling)

Name: _____________________________
Street Address: ________________________City: _______________ 
State: ________________Zip:_____________
Phone number:__________________________
Email:_______________________________ 

Returned checks are subject to $25 NSF Fee


Fill in the following if you are paying with a credit card:

Circle one:        VISA        MASTERCARD
Name as it appears on the card: __________________________
Card number: ______________________________
Expiration Date: ___/___

Signature: ____________________________

Send your order and payment to: 
F.T.W.I. 
4019 Goldfinch, Ste. J
San Diego, CA 92103 
































 
 
 
 
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "The Sandwich" 
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 07:06:39 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Newbie PGP question
Message-ID: <19980612140606.2770.qmail@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I have a file encrypted with PGP version 2.6.2. Is there a way to view 
ALL the (public) keys that were used to encrypt the  message...  
therefore showing which of Private keys can be used to 
decrypt it?

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: listmaster@extensis.com
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 09:33:05 -0700 (PDT)
To: undisclosed-recipients:;
Subject: Extensis Mask Pro--Now with FREE PhotoAnimator
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Extensis Mask Pro-The Best-Selling Masking Plug-in for Adobe Photoshop 
http://products.extensis.com/maskpro_P/

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Mask Pro's innovative color matching technology lets you decide 
which colors you want to keep and which ones you don't.  Mask Pro 
does the rest.  Using a color eyedropper, simply select which colors 
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wipe away the unwanted colors.  The Magic Brush removes the drop 
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Select color thresholds, edge softness, brush sizes, and more.  
With the zoom, pan and navigator window controls, you can easily 
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To order, get information, or download a FREE demo, Please visit:
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
PS. We have made every effort to ensure this message is being sent 
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If we have sent this to you in error, please accept our apologies 
and reply with REMOVE in the subject line for automatic exclusion 
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listmaster@extensis.com with ADD in the subject line and their 
email address in the body.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 07:26:26 -0700 (PDT)
To: "The Sandwich" 
Subject: Re: Newbie PGP question
In-Reply-To: <19980612140606.2770.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <199806121431.JAA074.07@geiger.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In <19980612140606.2770.qmail@hotmail.com>, on 06/12/98 
   at 07:06 AM, "The Sandwich"  said:

>I have a file encrypted with PGP version 2.6.2. Is there a way to view 
>ALL the (public) keys that were used to encrypt the  message...  
>therefore showing which of Private keys can be used to  decrypt it?

If you have PGP 2.6.x and you run PGP from the commandline:

c:> pgp.exe 

If no keys are available in the secring.pgp file to decrypt the message
then PGP will display all the keys the file is encrypted with.

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgp.html
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: How do you make Windows faster?  Throw it harder!

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3a-sha1
Charset: cp850
Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000

iQCVAwUBNYE7v49Co1n+aLhhAQFABAQAkIxiYhrfC9XmkyQ9Z+2zCdljFTmPwLKT
G4LieJdW8SbBDxn45A5bPLTdrCR7PmRguOFi54u+PouR3BEfT1319j7LltJmNjRX
7CFyGjjiQFoLDg4c0w2B0A6zxGRFahUKWdekAcxgY/4emmfPoINEuZ2voEb6uIsb
a6bRRj+7qdE=
=P/8j
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ARC Staffing 
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 10:24:02 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Position
Message-ID: <3581646C.D2569F4A@usaor.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Sorry to intrude on everyone, but I'm looking  to fill a position in the
Northern Virginia area.  I'm looking for a secure messaging engineer,
dealing heavily in S/MIME and/or PGP.  It is a very llucrative spot for
the person with the right qualifications.  If anyone could help me, I
would appreciate it.

Nate Stanton
ARC Staffing
412-422-1159
arcinc@usaor.net

P.S. If this is out of line, let me know, and I'll apolizgize profusely.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: mscompia@microsoft.com
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 15:53:05 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Information From The Microsoft Personal Information Center
Message-ID: <0be172752220c68UPIMSSMTPSYS08@msn.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Here is your password you requested from the Microsoft Personal Information Center at http://register.microsoft.com/regwiz/personalinfo.asp.

Password: writecode

If you continue to have access problems or want to report other issues, please contact us through the Write Us button at the top of any Microsoft page.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Global Web Builders 
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 00:15:58 -0700 (PDT)
To: (Recipient list suppressed)
Subject: Live coverage of Qld State Elections
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980612070530.00a09700@mail.pronet.net.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Dear One Nation supporter in NSW,

I am delighted to inform you that One Nation now has its own domain.

Check out:
http://www.onenation.com.au

To follow the Qld State election live tomorrow night take the Qld State
Election link and then the "LIVE" coverage link.

Shortcut:
http://www.gwb.com.au/onenation/qldstate/june13

The new IRC details will be put up tomorrow night.

Look forward to catching up with you on-line....

GWB




Scott Balson





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Joseph 'Anonymous' Howe" 
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 15:00:08 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Position
In-Reply-To: <3581646C.D2569F4A@usaor.net>
Message-ID: <2c9eb8084c133e9e90937dfe2b72d83e@privacy.nb.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Fri, 12 Jun 1998 13:25:00 -0400  ARC Staffing  wrote:

>Sorry to intrude on everyone, but I'm looking  to fill a position in the
>Northern Virginia area.  I'm looking for a secure messaging engineer,
>dealing heavily in S/MIME...

Isn't that a double negative? Hee, hee!



 -+DiGiTaL+-









From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: tonya@e-web2.net
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 23:18:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Your Adult Website Password
Message-ID: <199806130618.XAA15554@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


This message is for adults 21+ only.
If you are not 21+ or do not wish to
view adult images please delete this message.
==============================================================
Looking For Live Hidden Camera Video?
Looking For 23 Live Girl Feeds?
Looking For A Site That Won't Charge you To Chat With the Ladies?
Looking For A Site That Won't Break the Bank?

http://www.e-web2.net/tonya/

Love Tonya
================================================================






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nycfood@prontomail.com
Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 04:14:50 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Free Gourmet Food
Message-ID: <199806131114.EAA11496@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


THE MOST DELICIOUS FOOD ON THE INTERNET IS AT

            NEW YORK CITY GOURMET FOOD

Your name may be selected to receive a free gourmet food
gift.  Just visit, http://www.usaserve.net/nycfoods, and
make a complete entry into the Guest Book.  Please write 
JUNE GIFTS in the comment box and, if your name is one of
three selected your gift will arrive by express messenger.

Make a purchase during your and visit you may also receive,
just in time for the outdoor season, a copy of one of
America's best Barbeque cook books, LICENSE TO GRILL.
Please write JUNE GIFTS in the comment box of your order.

http://www.usaserve.net/nycfoods is offering free gourmet
food gifts each month but, you must sign the Guest Book
on or after the first day of each month to be eligible.

To be deleted from the mail list, please respond with
remove in the subject line and press the reply button.








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: derok@caryys.com
Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 13:56:24 -0700 (PDT)
To: aadr@ey.com
Subject: mach 101111
Message-ID: <0a0b21151200d68UPIMSRGSMTP05@msn.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




ALL YOU DO IS ADVERTISE THIS 800 NUMBER! THAT'S ALL!!


$100 goes to you for EVERY sale that the company closes!


Does the idea of making at least $1,000 per week beginning your 2nd
week of doing business excite you?

How about never having to sell a thing to your customer and never
having to talk to ANYONE to make money? I don't know how this could
 get any easier.

EVERY aspect of selling or talking to someone is DONE COMPLETELY by the 
company!

The number one home based business for the 2nd year in a row, Fortune
5000 is a member of the Better Business Bureau and the U.S. Chamber of
Commerce.

WHAT THIS BUSINESS WILL DO FOR YOU:

* Handles all your calls, closes your sales, and sends you WEEKLY commission checks!



* It pays you a $100 commission (that's over 50% of the total sale)
  for EVERY sale. CHECKS put $$$ in your pocket in less than your     
first week or two... Quick commission earnings build and maintain
  motivation.
  
ALL YOU DO IS ADVERTISE the toll-free number and your ID number.


* You can get STARTED TODAY. Just advertise the business toll-free
  number with your ID # and let this business CLOSE YOUR SALES every
  day...They do all the work and YOU GET PAID FOR IT!


* You may advertise any way you choose: Bulk E-Mail, Flyers,
  Classifieds, Postcards, etc. Suppose you use bulk E-Mail, as I am:    
100,000 E-Mails with a 1/10th of a percent (0.1%) sales rate at $100   
per sale nets $10,000... not too bad.


There is nothing else out there that will provide you with an immediate 
income beginning THIS WEEK with minimal effort.


Before you call, I want you to think about the quality of the live
operators handling your call. I am convinced you will not find
a better team of closers for your own personal sales.  You will
clearly understand what I am talking about once you call.


PLEASE DON'T LET THIS PASS YOU BY. MAKE THE CALL!!


                            1-800-811-2141


You will be asked for ID #55107 when you call.


(Live operators are available from 8 AM-10 PM CST Monday through
Saturday and will be able to answer any questions you may have.)


Call one of the 24hr TESTIMONIAL lines at 888-703-5389, 888-446-6949,
888-446-6951 or 888-731-3457 (all toll free).



                     To be removed, please press reply and type "Remove"





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: lawyer@XUDI.aol.com
Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 16:14:23 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@TMVD.toad.com
Subject: THIS WILL CHANGE YOUR LIFE -AFUX
Message-ID: <199806132314.QAA20638@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


cypherpunks

Read this it will change your life.

If you are not interested please excuse me for interrupting your 
day and 
just hit delete and I do apologize for any inconvenience.

This is a letter I received, many, many, many times, and just 
deleted, 
but finally I said to myself what the heck I'll give it a try. 
To my 
amazement DOLLAR BILLS just keep coming in everyday!  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Greetings

I am a retired attorney, and about two years ago a man came to 
me with a 
letter. The letter he brought me is basically the same as the 
letter in 
front of you now. He asked me to verify the fact that this 
letter was 
legal. I advised him to make a small change in the letter and it 
would 
be 100% legal.

When I first read the letter, I thought it was some off-the-wall 
idea to 
make money. I was curious about the letter, so I asked him to 
keep me 
updated as to his results. About two months later he called to 
tell me 
that he had received over $800,000 in cash! I didn't believe him 
so he 
asked me to try the plan and see for myself. I followed the 
instructions 
exactly and mailed out 200 letters. Sure enough, the money 
started 
coming! It came slowly at first, but after three weeks I was 
getting 
more than I could open in a day. I kept a precise record and 
after about 
three months my earnings were $868,439. I decided to try the 
letter 
again, but this time I sent 500 letters out. Well, three months 
later I 
had totaled $2,344,178.00!!! I just couldn't believe it. 

I met my old client for lunch to find out how this exactly 
works. He 
told me that there were a few similar letters going around. What 
made 
this one different is the fact that there are six names on the 
letter, 
not five like most others. That fact alone resulted in far more 
returns. 
The other factor was the advice I gave him in making sure the 
whole 
thing was perfectly legal, since no one wants to risk doing 
anything 
illegal. 

I bet by now you are curious about what little change I told him 
to 
make. To be legal, anyone sending a dollar must receive 
something in 
return. So when you send a dollar to each of the six names on 
the list, 
you must include a slip of paper saying, "Please put me on your 
mailing 
list" and include your name, mailing address, and email address. 
This is 
the key to the program! The item you will receive for a dollar 
you send 
to the six names below, is this letter and the right to earn 
thousands.

Follow the simple instructions below exactly, and in less than 
three 
months you could receive over $800,000.

A) Immediately send US $1 to each of the six people on the list 
below. 
Wrap the dollar in a note saying,"Please add me to your mailing 
list" 
and include your name, mailing address, and email address.

1) HEPALTA - 16406 - 117 Avenue, EDMONTON, Ab. Canada T5M3W2

1) Fred Ball - 1092 Adobe Canyon Rd., Kenwood, California 95452

2) G.W. Smith - 7082 Woolworth Rd., Shreveport, Louisiana 71129

3) T. Perdue 130 Dalzell St. Shreveport, Louisiana 71104

4) S.Hawryluk 5520 Bellechasse, Montreal,Quebec.Canada H1T-2B8

5) Raymond Lal, P. O. Box 1122. Regina. Sk.Canada, S4P 3B4

6) D. Dilley, P.O. Box 551, Wathena, KS  66090

B) Remove the name next to #1 on the list and move the rest of 
the names 
up one position. Then place your name in the #6 spot. This is 
best done 
by saving to a text file and editing it yourself and saving the 
new 
edited copy. Or type a new list and glue it over the old one.

C) You can mail your new letter out in two ways: 

    1) Through the U.S. Postal Service or 

    2) through e-mail. 

This letter has been proven perfectly legal for both ways as 
long as you 
follow the above instructions, because you're purchasing 
membership in 
an exclusive mailing list. To mail this out over the internet, 
you can 
browse through areas and find people to send this to all the 
time. All 
you have to do is cut and paste email Addresses wherever you are 
on the 
Internet. Remember, it doesn't cost anything to mail on the 
Internet. Or 
you can get a bulk email service to mail it out in large volumes 
for 
you. 

One that we recommend is:

Progressive Internet Communications Co specializing in targeted 
and bulk 
mailings (Very reasonable. Call for pricing.) (407) 956-1151 
P.O. Box 
100512, Palm Bay, FL. 32910-0512. 

If you are going to use the traditional U.S. Postal Service to 
do this 
program, you will want to order a minimum 200 names from a 
mailing list 
company. 

For the most effective for these lists are:

Advon Distributors ($28 / 200 names) P.O. Box B-11 Shelly, ID 
83274
(800) 992-3866. 

*Keep in mind- there is no limit to the amount of names you can 
send 
out. The more names you send, the more money you'll make. We 
strongly 
encourage you to mail this letter to family, friends and 
relatives as 
well.*

D) Be sure to send out at least 200. You should receive over 
$800,000.

E) Keep a copy of this letter and all the names you receive. 
Mail it Out 
again in about 6 months. But mail it to the addresses you 
received with 
each dollar. It will work again, only much better.

THIS IS A SERVICE AND IS 100% LEGAL !

(Refer to title 18, Section 1302 & 1342 of the U.S. Postal and 
Lottery 
Laws). Assume for example you get a 7.5% return rate, which is 
very 
conservative. My first attempt was about 9.5% and my second time 
was 
over 11%.

1)When you mail out 200 letters, 15 people will send you $1
2)Those 15 mail out 200 letters, 225 people will send you $1
3)B29Those 225 mail out 200 letters, 3,375 people will send you 
$1
4)Those 3,375 mail out 200 letters, 50,625 people will send you 
$1
5)Those 50,625 mail out 200 letters, 759,375 people will send 
you $1
6)At this point your name drops off the list at earnings of 
$813,615.00!

It works every time, but how well depends on how many letters 
you send 
out. In the example above, you mailed out 200 letters, if you 
mailed out 
500 letters, you would have received $2,006,917!!

Check the math yourself, I want you to, but I guarantee it is 
correct! 
With this kind of return, you've got to try it. Try it once and 
you will 
do it again!!! Just make sure you send a dollar to each of the 
six names 
on the list with a note to be added to their mailing list. 
Together we 
will all prosper!!!!

PS You've read this far, so let me ask you one simple question:

Q. What do you have to lose??

A. Only $6

What you can gain is an income, like the example in this letter. 
Small Risk, Small Expense, 
HUGE Potential Return!!! 
What do you have to lose? 
I invite you to join our mailing list today!!!

THANK YOU AND I KNOW YOU WILL BE FINANCIALLY 
REWARDED.______________________________________________________

D. Dilley  .   Attorney at law






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 18:47:05 -0700 (PDT)
To: jy@jya.com
Subject: JUN 12'98
Message-ID: <35832AE3.2331@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Saturday 6/13/98 7:08 PM

John Young

Got an envelope size 9x1/4 x 11 7/8 in the mail today postmarked

  ALBUQUERQUE NM

  JUN 12'98

from 

  U.S. Department of Justice
  United States Attorney
  District of New Mexico
  POB 607
  Albuquerque, NM 87103

  Official Business
  Penalty for Private use $300.

My guess is about 4-7 page.  

Paper clip at lower right side.

If last letter from Mitchell is any indication of rational
behavior, then my guess that this will eclipse the former.

http://jya.com/usa052098.htm

But I did not open it.  This is a weekend.  I have principles.

NO envelope was received from court in response to 

http://jya.com/whp052898.htm

I will fax contents of U.S. Department of Justice envelope
as soon as we open it.

We must ALL keep a good sense of humor.

A mathematician, physicist, and engineer we all asked to calculate
the volume of a red rubber ball.

The mathematician measured the diameter, then solved a triple integral
to find the volume.

The physicist submerged the red rubber ball in a vessel of water
to measure its displacement.

The engineer looked it up in his red rubber ball handbook.  

http://jya.com/da/whpda.htm

Later
bill

http://www.apcatalog.com/cgi-bin/AP?ISBN=0125475705&LOCATION=US&FORM=FORM2
http://www-hto.usc.edu/software/seqaln/doc/html/gfsr.3.html






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 02:24:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Aviation Internet Marketer
Message-ID: <989.283923.115890 wingsaffiliate@neworleans.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



To:  Aviation Internet Marketer
From:  Sgt. Hack, CEO,  U.S. Wings, Inc. 

Succeed by association with 
PILOT SHOPS, the hot new Aviation  
Affiliate Opportunity from U.S.WINGS INC. 

U.S.Wings, Inc. is featured in the new, McGraw Hill 
book due out September 1:

"StrikingItRich.com: Profiles of 23 Incredibly Successful 
Websites...That You've Probably Never Heard Of"
by Jaclyn Easton
Foreword by Jeff Bezos, Founder & CEO, Amazon.com, Inc.

Become a PILOT SHOPS Affiliate today and I'll send you an 
autographed copy of the new book at my cost after September 1. 

The U.S Wings PILOT SHOPS affiliate program pays you 8.1/3 % 
on all sales referred from your site. All you have to do is 
display 
the GOLD WINGS logo and PILOT SHOPS link (below) on your main 
page!
There's no risk and no cost. Your ongoing income could be 
significant.

The PILOT SHOPS offers an extensive line of genuine leather 
jackets, 
peacoats and aviation ball caps.  A line of Aviation theme 
T-shirts 
and computer mouse pads will be added in the next few weeks 
with plans to expand all lines as time progresses.

Please check it out.

>HREF="http://www.mustangone.com/uswings/pilotshop/govtissue.mv?A
SSOCIATE_ID">
Come shop at the...
U.S. Wings Pilot Shop, Aviation leather goods, 
caps,
t-shirts and more!

Get started now and profit by association in the success in U.S. 
Wings, Inc.

Become a U.S. Wings PILOT SHOPS Affiliate today.
No cost. No risk. It's easy!
Simply REPLY with the information requested below. 

U.S. WINGS PILOT SHOPS 
  ~ Affiliate Application ~

    _X_  YES!  I wish to become a U.S Wings Pilot Shop Affiliate.

    _ _  Sorry. I cannot participate at this time.

    Company name:
    Contact name:
    Address:
    City:
    State/Province:
    Postal code:
    Country:
    URLs of your web sites:
    E-mail address of contact:
    Phone with area code:
    Comments / Questions:

Upon receiving your PILOT SHOPS application, U.S. Wings will 
email you an Associate ID which is to be substituted into the 
HTML
source code in the indicated position as described above...  
that's it!  
It's too easy.

Entry into the PILOT SHOPS will ONLY be through GOLD WINGS links 
on 
associates' web pages.  There will be no other direct access to 
the site! 

Get started now and begin sharing in U.S. Wings' phenomenal 
success.

Best regards,
Sgt. Hack, CEO
U.S. Wings, Inc.
Pilot Shops Internet Affiliate Program
..
P.s.
I hope you enjoyed reading about our new PilotShops.
However, if you'd rather not receive any future notices 
from US Wings, please send an e-mail message to 
mailto:no_no_thanku@mailexcite.com 
with DELETE in the Subject to be immediately 
removed from any future US Wings Aviation offerings.
Thank you.























av
89-t
13-6
c_2
d-5
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: olive369@hotmail.com
Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 23:57:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Your Friends Will Want To See These!
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Attention!
Warning! Adults Only!                    Warning! Adults Only!

If you are under 21 years of age, or not interested in sexually 
explicit material... please hit your keyboard delete button now
and please excuse the intrusion.  To REMOVE your name from our
mailing list, send us email with REMOVE in the subject line.  You
need not read any further!


Available NOW for only $9.95!  Next 10 Days Only!

WORLD RECORD SEX!

Be There!  See It Now On Video!  Unbelievable ...But True!

You Won't Believe Your Eyes!!!  [As Seen on the Howard Stern Show]

"The World's Biggest Gang Bang"

See sexy  Annabel Chong as she sets the world Gang Bang Record
in this fantastic video documentary that chronicles her 24 hour
sexathon with 251 men engaging in sexual intercourse and oral
sex with her!  Don't worry, you won't have to stay up 24 hours
to watch it all.  We've selected only the most exciting and red
hot scenes for you...all in breathtaking living color with plenty of
extreme close-ups!  This video is guaranteed to knock your socks
off and leave you breathless!  You've never seen anything like it!
Annabel takes on five men at a time!  90 minutes! Order Today!
Only $9.95 plus $3 shipping and handling [Total $12.95].


"GANG BANG II"
The Record Breaker!!!  Starring Jasmin St. Claire!

See Beautiful and Voluptious Jasmin St. Claire shatter Annabel's
gang bang record by taking on 300 men in one 24 hour sex session!
You won't believe your eyes at all the hot firey action that you will
see as the new world record is established before your eyes as
Jasmin  takes on five men at a time for sexual intercourse and
oral sex!  Your friends will break down your door to see this video!
You'll be the most popular guy in town!  The action is truly unreal 
and you will see the best of it in living life-like color!  Order Today
and see Jasmin break the record!  90 minutes.  Only $9.95 plus
$3 shipping and handling [total $12.95].

Also Available...

The Uncensored Authentic Underground...
Pamela Anderson Lee & Tommy Lee
Sex Video Tape!

Everyone is talking about this exciting video!  See Pam and 
Tommy engaging in sexual intercourse and oral sex in the car,
on the boat and much, much more!  A  real collectors video! 30 minutes.
Only $9.95 plus $3 shipping and Handling [total $12.95]

"Tonya Harding Wedding Night Sex Video"
Now see the beautiful Ice Skating Shame of the Olympics
Tonya Harding engaging in sexual intercourse and oral 
sex on her wedding night with husband Jeff Gillooly!
This "Bad Girl" is Hot!  Don't miss this video! 30 minutes.
Only $9.95 plus $3 shipping and handling [total $12.95]

"Traci...I Love You"  Starring Traci Lords
Now see the most beautiful and popular porn star in her last
adult video before she hit the big time!  It's the blockbuster of
the year...sensual...fiery and exposive!  Traci Lords in her most
erotic and controversial film ever!  Don't Miss It!  90 minutes.
Only $9.95 plus $3 shipping and handling [total $12.95]

EMAIL SPECIAL!

ORDER ANY FOUR VIDEOS AND GET THE FIFTH ONE FREE!!!

Your order will be shipped via First Class Mail. All Shipments in plain unmarked wrapper.
For Priority Mail - Add $5
For Overnight Express - add $15

You can order by Phone, Fax, Mail or Email.

We accept all Major Credit Cards and checks by phone or fax.
Visa - MasterCard - American Express - Discover

10 Day Money Back Guarantee!  We know that you will be pleased with these Videos!

To Email your order - DO NOT HIT REPLY ON YOUR KEYBOARD

Send email to our special email address below:

zena456@juno.com

[Note: If you order by email and do not receive an email acknowledgement within 24 hours, please phone our office at
718-287-3800]

Phone our office 9am to 10 pm [eastern time]

[718] 287-3800 to Order By Phone for FASTEST SERVICE!

 We can accept your credit card or check by phone

Fax Your Order 24 hours per day  to  [718] 462-5920
You can fax your credit card information or your check

Order by mail by sending $12.95 per video,  cash, check, money order or major credit card [Visa, MasterCard, American Express or Discover] to

TCPS, INC.
4718  18th Ave.  Suite 135
Brooklyn, NY 11204

Make Checks & Money Orders Payable to TCPS, Inc.
New York State Residents Please Add 85 cents for Sales Tax per Video!

You must be over 21 years of age to order and give us your date of birth with your order!

The Following Order Form is for Your Convenience!

.............................................................................................................




Please ship me the following video tape[s]!

Qty___________Annabel Chong "World's Biggest Gang Bang"

Qty__________"Gang Bang II" Jasmin St. Claire

Qty___________"Pamela & Tommy Lee Sex Video Tape"

Qty_________   "Tonya Harding Wedding Night Sex Video Tape"

Qty__________"Traci I Love You" Traci Lords

at $9.95 each plus $3.00 for shipping and handling per tape
[$12.95 per video or "SPECIAL $51.80 for ALL FIVE"!

Credit Card #______________________________Exp Date___

I hereby represent that I am over 21 years of age.  
My date of birth is_________________________________

Signature______________________________________________

Ship to:  Name_______________________________________

Address____________________________________________

City________________________State___________Zip________

Area Code and Home Phone  [    ]___________________________

Fax # [     ]______________________________________________

Email Address___________________________________________

To remove your name from our mailing list, send us an email with 
remove in the subject line.  This is a one time offer and you should not hear from us again!

FOREIGN ORDERS -Add $15us if you desire Air Parcel Post Shipment.  We ship all over the world.

By deleting your unwanted E-Mail you waste one keystroke, yet
by throwing away paper mail you waste our planet!  SAVE THE
TREES and support internet E-Mail instead of paper mail!

[C] Copyright TCPS 1998





















From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bruce Schneier 
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 06:01:20 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Twofish (our AES Submission) is Available
Message-ID: <199806141301.IAA20051@mixer.visi.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Twofish, the block cipher we have submitted to NIST's AES competition, is on the web.  Please see

	http://www.counterpane.com/twofish.html

for details, including description, analysis, source code, and test vectors.

Other AES submissions will presumably be made public as the weeks progress, although NIST will not publish the submissions until the August meeting.  See the NIST website at

	http://csrc.nist.gov/encryption/aes/aes_home.htm

for more details.

Bruce




**********************************************************************
Bruce Schneier, President, Counterpane Systems     Phone: 612-823-1098
101 E Minnehaha Parkway, Minneapolis, MN  55419      Fax: 612-823-1590
                                            http://www.counterpane.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: replies444@juno.com
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 11:05:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: A Unique Email Advertisement
Message-ID: <199806141805.LAA09023@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


HELLO
The following information is not meant to spam or upset anyone, that is why we include 
Advertisement in the subject line to give you an option to delete before you open the 
message. We are a Reliable Internet Company that does full Internet Marketing.  
Whatever your needs to market your business or product, A.I.M. can help you 
achieve your success. Please do not treat this as just another piece of junk mail, we 
are Aimed to your success.

A.I.M. was established in 1994 and has helped many people on the Internet market 
their business and products successfully.  We do not sell random bulk email lists, nor 
do we advertise Adult Sites or Chain Letters.

Right now the largest form of communication is done through the Internet, and 1998 
will be  another record breaking year.  There are over 60 million people that have 
Internet access world wide, and that number continues to rise at a rate of over 40,000 
per month.  The best way to market any product or service is through the Internet, and 
random bulk mail is not the way to go.  You may ask, why am I sending you this ONE 
piece of email; to get my information out so that others can follow the same practices 
of Internet advertising.  The Internet community would benefit from direct advertising!

Now you ask what can we offer you.....

CUSTOM TARGETED EMAIL ADDRESSES
No matter what your target is, we can compile a great list for you of people or 
businesses that are interested in what you offer. Say, for instance, you would like to 
send a newsletter out to people interested in MLM; we can compile a list for you of 
people currently involved in MLM.  If you would like a list of people looking for a 
business opportunity, we can compile that list for you. You tell us your target; we will 
compile that list.  We can even target your list geographically.
example...If your business is selling CD's, and your company is based in NY; we can 
gather a list of people in NY interested in CD's.  We have a client that is involved in 
MLM, who asked us to target 1000 opportunity seekers to start.  To his surprise he 
got 7 new people in his downline from just that one mailing.  Another client wanted to 
send a letter out to birdwatchers.  We targeted 5000 birdwatchers for him; and he, 
also, became a very happy client of ours. We have targeted.. investors, businesses, 
International addresses,women, men, age groups, cites, states, doctors, lawyers, etc....

Some of our clients are getting results of 1-40%.  Targeted mailings start at $50 per 
thousand, and we can offer you a better price at higher quantities.

Complete Pricing for Targeted Email

1000 targeted email addresses $50 for us to email $50=$100
2000 targeted email addresses $85 for us to email $85=$170
5000 targeted email addresses $250 (no charge for us to email)
10000 targeted email addresses and we mail $500
100000 targeted email addresses and we mail $1,000
1 million  guaranteed targeted email addresses and we mail $5,000
We offer a guarantee that our lists will be targeted to your topic.  We keep a master 
file on all of our clients so if you order again you will never get any duplicate addresses 
from us

EMAILING
We can do the email for you and have all of the replies come directly to your email 
address.  If you prefer to do the mailing yourself, we sell email software as well.
Here is a few:
Rapid Fire Mail Server....Turns Your Computer into a mail server $495.00 (free 
demo)
Stealth Mass Mailer...Sends out email at a rate of 100,000+ per hour $395.00(free 
demo)
Mail Pusher....The newest in Bulk Email Software (great program) $300.00 (free 
demo)


OTHER SERVICES OFFERED BY A.I.M.

WEBSITE MARKETING PACKAGE

We can place your website to the top of any given search engine. Our best results 
come from Infoseek.
Guarantee top 10 listing.
$300.00  first month  $300.00 every month there after

COMPLETE WEB MARKETING PACKAGE

(1) Targeted Emails in the amount of 200,000 per week
(2) Posting your website to BBS (Internet Bulletin Board Systems Related to your 
topics)
(3)  URL links to other sites related to your topics
(3) Newsgroup Postings (1000) per month
(4)  Banner Ads to related subject searches
(5) Website Submissions to the search engines with a guaranteed 1st page placement 
to Infoseek and submissions to the other top 8 as well as 400 other search engines

All of the postings, submissions, banner ad and URL advertising will be done with your 
reply email address so that you have a copy of every placement and you know where 
your ads are on the Internet.


Total price for complete marketing package $2500.00 per month

IF YOU have a business, product, or just want to get your information out; you have 
no need to look any further.  A.I.M.  is here to help!!  

Now as you can see we are a full service company, and we can help you with any of 
your  advertising needs.

Please call us toll free at 1-800-942-7913 today!

We look forward to hearing from you and are happy to answer any questions that you 
may have.  Once again, we give you our guarantee that this is the only piece of email 
that you receive from us. We wish you success now and in the future!

Again our toll free number is 800-942-7913
our fax # 732-367-2229

We accept...Visa/MasterCard/American Express or check by fax

Thank you









From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 08:09:15 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Childlove and Feds
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980614150621.006a81f4@pop.pipeline.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


The NYT today has a long piece on phone hackers,
"The Good. The Bad. The Geeks." With focus on a 
a few in New York City: Mantis, Wicked, Bell Boy,
Vertigo, et al.

Mantis admits working with LEAs in catching pedophiles
and phreakers (note link) who do not abide the "Hacker 
Ethic" of doing no harm, only "helping society" by exposing 
security weaknesses. 

Not all Feds and phreakers agree that pedophobic Feds 
and teeny-cute phreaks help society, although the pedophilic 
Agency allegedly abusing the adorable phreaker for its 
come-on entrapment had "no comment" to its online 
childlove racketeering and profiteering, sort of like the
NYT's art spiegel comic today.

   http://www.nytimes.com

Our clone:

   http://jya.com/gbg.htm






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: PAWS@12930.com
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 11:44:13 -0700 (PDT)
To: 061298@irst-max.com
Subject: PAWS Across the NET for Success
Message-ID: <061298>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




We have your name on our safe email list.  If this reaches you in error
please send removal requests to rm0021@irst-max.net.  Your name will
immediately be removed from our list with our sincere apology for the 
intrusion.

 * * * P.A.W.S. * * * People Across the World Succeeding * * *
 
 FREE TO JOIN!!  We Help You Build Your Matrix!!!!!
 
 How about a group of people joining together to recruit and 
 market.  A group determined to make money. A group where no 
 one is at the advantage. And no one is at a disadvantage. 
 Everyone pays the same and earns the same. This is one of
 the most compelling business opportunities you will find on
 the internet today.

 97% of all MLM'ers fail to reach their financial goal. They
 never earn the kind of money they intended to when they got
 into their business. More often they lose money because the
 average person only sponsors 2.5 people. They end up spending
 more than they make and the only ones who make money are 
 those who join at the top.

 We feel we have found a way to change that.  People helping
 people is our philosophy.  We heard and we created the PAWS
 Association!! If you are a caring, individual and have a 
 desire to help others by also helping yourself, please email
 us with "more info" in the subject line and your email address 
 in the body.  Send it to:  paws-4-u-info@autoresponder.freeyellow.com

You will receive an immediate reply.









From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 15:04:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: CABLE BOX DESCRAMBLERS
Message-ID: <989.283923.817969 cabletv@208.4.7.8>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


To be removed from our mailing list please reply with "REMOVE" in the subject 
line.

Cable T.V. Descramblers, Converters, And Accessories for sale. We carry cable 
descramblers for all major name brand cable boxes used by cable companies.  All 
units are compeletly automatic and digital, and there are no complicated 
programing involved, Just hookup and enjoy the latest technology in cable tv 
equipments.

We carry high quality units at low prices, prices start as low as $129 and up.  
All of our products are backed by:

30 DAYS MONEY BACK GARAUNTEE.
ONE YEAR WARRANTY.
FULL TECHNICAL SUPPORT.

For more information, pictures and prices or to order visit our
web site at http://208.4.7.8/intersales.cc/cabletv or 
http://users.replinets-max.com/rm0232

P.S. Respond and purchase your cable TV descrambler within 10 days of reciept of 
this email and get a free gift with your perchase.($40 value).  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bruce Schneier 
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 16:06:56 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Twofish soruce code outside the U.S.
Message-ID: <199806142306.SAA00045@mixer.visi.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


It's time to play the dumb export control game.

I have to take steps to prevent non-US and non-Canadian persons from downloading the Twofish source.

However, if someone outside the US manages to get their hands on the Twofish source from my website and puts it up on their website, please let me know.

I would like very much to link to it, so others can get the Twofish code.

Thanks,
Bruce
**********************************************************************
Bruce Schneier, President, Counterpane Systems     Phone: 612-823-1098
101 E Minnehaha Parkway, Minneapolis, MN  55419      Fax: 612-823-1590
                                            http://www.counterpane.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bruce Schneier 
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 17:00:43 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Converting my Twofish PostScript file to pdf
Message-ID: <199806150000.TAA06546@mixer.visi.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


We have been unable to do this.  We've tried, a few times, and failed miserably.

If anyone has the correct tools to do a clean conversation from Postscript into pdf, please do so and send me the pdf file.  I will post it.

Thanks,
Bruce
**********************************************************************
Bruce Schneier, President, Counterpane Systems     Phone: 612-823-1098
101 E Minnehaha Parkway, Minneapolis, MN  55419      Fax: 612-823-1590
                                            http://www.counterpane.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: realtor@electronicpromotion.com
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 19:32:36 -0700 (PDT)
To: realtor@electronicpromotion.com
Subject: REALTOR.com Specials!!
Message-ID: <199806150232.TAA16422@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


RealSelect Offers Tremendous Savings
On The Official NAR Web Site - http://www.REALTOR.com

IT'S ALL ABOUT LEADS...

Does the thought of unlimited classified advertising to over 3 million consumers interest you?  Would you like to market yourself and all of your listings on the world's largest website, REALTOR.com?  RealSelect is offering you a home page and upgrade 
special that can't be beat!  Save $100 off the regular retail price!  You can't afford to miss this special! The normal retail value is $374 for all of our SIMPLE Tools and setup, but
for only $274, you can have a years worth of the newest technology in
generating qualified leads for only $5 per week!    *Available only to
first year subscribers - offer valid through 6/30/98

REMEMBER, THIS PROGRAM IS ALL ABOUT GENERATING LEADS FOR YOU!
Click here to ORDER NOW!  http://www.realtor.com/marketing/home.htm
(To receive this special pricing YOU MUST ENTER BILLING CODE SP5098.)
· OR-
Using your Internet browser,
1.	Type http:// www.REALTOR.com in the address window;
2.	Once at the REALTOR.com home page, click on the blue "Internet Marketing" button located on the left hand side of the REALTOR.com web page;
3.	Select "Create Agent Simple" or "Create Office Simple";
4.	Then follow the easy steps to make big $$$ with REALTOR.com!
(To receive this special pricing YOU MUST ENTER BILLING CODE SP5098.)
· OR-
If you have any questions or need help in getting started then respond to this e-mail or fax us at (619) 291-3553.  We will personally contact you to assist.
· Don't miss this fantastic offer!! Promotion ends June 30, 1998! --

To Remove your email address from future announcements regarding REALTOR.COM specials, reply with "remove" as the subject line and you will immediately be taken off the list.








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: hjfdujf@juno.com
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 20:17:41 -0700 (PDT)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: A Unique Email Advertisement
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


HELLO
The following information is not meant to spam or upset anyone, that is why we include
Advertisement in the subject line to give you an option to delete before you open the
message. We are a Reliable Internet Company that does full Internet Marketing. 
Whatever your needs to market your business or product, A.I.M. can help you achieve
your success. Please do not treat this as just another piece of junk mail, we are Aimed to
your success.

A.I.M. was established in 1994 and has helped many people on the
Internet market their business and products successfully.  We do not sell random bulk
email lists, nor do we advertise Adult Sites or Chain Letters.

Right now the largest form of communication is done through the Internet, and 1998 will
be  another record breaking year.  There are over 60 million people that have Internet
access world wide, and that number continues to rise at a rate of over 40,000 per month. 
The best way to market any product or service is through the Internet, and random bulk
mail is not the way to go.  You may ask, why am I sending you this ONE piece of email;
to get my information out so that others can follow the same practices of Internet
advertising.  The Internet community would benefit from direct advertising!

Now you ask what can we offer you.....

CUSTOM TARGETED EMAIL ADDRESSES
No matter what your target is, we can compile a great list for you of people or businesses
that are interested in what you offer. Say, for instance, you would like to send a newsletter
out to people interested in MLM; we can compile a list for you of people currently
involved in MLM.  If you would like a list of people looking for a business opportunity,
we can compile that list for you. You tell us your target; we will compile that list.  We can
even target your list geographically.
example...If your business is selling CD's, and your company is based in NY; we can
gather a list of people in NY interested in CD's.  We have a client that is involved in
MLM, who asked us to target 1000 opportunity seekers to start.  To his surprise he got 7
new people in his downline from just that one mailing.  Another client wanted to send a
letter out to birdwatchers.  We targeted 5000 birdwatchers for him; and he, also, became a
very happy client of ours. We have targeted.. investors, businesses, International
addresses,women, men, age groups, cites, states, doctors, lawyers, etc....

Some of our clients are getting results of 1-40%.  Targeted mailings start at $50 per
thousand, and we can offer you a better price at higher quantities.

Complete Pricing for Targeted Email

1000 targeted email addresses $50 for us to email $50=$100
2000 targeted email addresses $85 for us to email $85=$170
5000 targeted email addresses $250 (no charge for us to email)
10000 targeted email addresses and we mail $500
100000 targeted email addresses and we mail $1,000
1 million  guaranteed targeted email addresses and we mail $5,000
We offer a guarantee that our lists will be targeted to your topic.  We keep a master file on
all of our clients so if you order again you will never get any duplicate addresses from us

EMAILING
We can do the email for you and have all of the replies come directly to your email
address.  If you prefer to do the mailing yourself, we sell email software as well.
Here is a few:
Rapid Fire Mail Server....Turns Your Computer into a mail server $495.00 (free demo)
Stealth Mass Mailer...Sends out email at a rate of 100,000+ per hour $395.00(free demo)
Mail Pusher....The newest in Bulk Email Software (great program) $300.00 (free demo)


OTHER SERVICES OFFERED BY A.I.M.

WEBSITE MARKETING PACKAGE

We can place your website to the top of any given search engine. Our best results come
from Infoseek.
Guarantee top 10 listing.
$300.00  first month  $300.00 every month there after

COMPLETE WEB MARKETING PACKAGE

(1) Targeted Emails in the amount of 200,000 per week
(2) Posting your website to BBS (Internet Bulletin Board Systems Related to your topics)
(3)  URL links to other sites related to your topics
(3) Newsgroup Postings (1000) per month
(4)  Banner Ads to related subject searches
(5) Website Submissions to the search engines with a guaranteed 1st page placement to
Infoseek and submissions to the other top 8 as well as 400 other search engines

All of the postings, submissions, banner ad and URL advertising will be done with your
reply email address so that you have a copy of every placement and you know where your
ads are on the Internet.


Total price for complete marketing package $2500.00 per month

IF YOU have a business, product, or just want to get your information out; you have no
need to look any further.  A.I.M.  is here to help!!  

Now as you can see we are a full service company, and we can help you with any of your 
advertising needs.

Please call us toll free at 1-800-942-7913 today!


We look forward to hearing from you and are happy to answer any questions that you may
have.  Once again, we give you our guarantee that this is the only piece of email that you
receive from us. We wish you success now and in the future!

Again our toll free number is 800-942-7913
our fax # 732-367-2229

We accept...Visa/MasterCard/American Express or check by fax

Thank you









From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 23:37:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: The One Stop - Music Shop
Message-ID: <989.283923.714193 replynow@mail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Dear Webmaster,

We would like to offer your company an opportunity to host an 
ALAMO "MIRROR" site in exchange for a 10% commission on all 
musical instrument sales generated by your company. Alamo 
supplies all brands and models directly to the local markets 
worldwide, for LESS cost than any buyer can purchase the same 
product(s) locally. 


We propose the following:

1) URGENT REPLY REQUESTED!!! If you are interested be our 
exclusive agent in your area, then E-mail us ASAP so we will 
let other respondents know that your territory has been 
alocated to your company. Totally there will be over 200 
countries and territories represented, including all 50 
American states.

mailto:reply-now@highpro.com?Subject=ALAMO_MIRROR_SITES

NOTE! Agents will be accepted on a first come-first serve basis.

2) Please reply ASAP to us with the following information

   a) Homepage URL
   b) E-mail Address
   c) URL of your ALAMO MIRROR SITE
   d) E-mail address of your ALAMO REPRESENTATIVE/WEBMASTER

mailto:reply-now@highpro.com?Subject=ALAMO_MIRROR_SITES

3) We will E-mail our website to you in ZIPPED FORMAT (1MB). 

4) Please alter all contact E-mail addresses and company 
information to yours so that visitors to your site will 
contact you DIRECTLY. If relevant, please translate our 
site in to your local language.

5) Load all files onto your local server and E-mail us 
when it's up! We will notify ALL other mirrors sites of 
your addition!

MUSICAL INSTRUMENT ORDER PROCESS 

All incoming enquiries should be forwarded to us for processing. 
Copies of our replies will be sent to you. Buyers will be 
invoiced by us directly, copied to you. Once we receive their 
payment, we will credit your account. Commission will be paid to 
all agents monthly.

PLEASE NOTE! IMPORTANT!!!

Once we establish the Cybermall NEXT MONTH, EVERYTHING will 
be automated so you will NOT need to DO ANYTHING in-line to 
generate order. Therefore, you just need to develop the market 
locally OFF LINE (FAX, PHONE, MAIL).

MUTUAL BENEFITS 

1) We are the ONLY Musical Instrument Cybershop that delivers 
EVERYTHING in the Industry. Custom orders! OEM! ALL famous 
brands and types of instruments, etc. We have THE LARGEST 
SELECTION at the MOST COMPETITIVE PRICES. Why? We sell 
factory direct WORLDWIDE, and all our marketing is on-line, 
therefore we have virtually NO OVERHEAD. Saving time, money, 
and resources! Consumers save 10-60% on purchases through us.

2) The average instrument costs US$2,000, so commissions 
will normally average US$200 per instrument, so returns on 
your investment should be generated very quickly.

3) Alamo is fully established in the music industry 
worldwide as the leader in DIRECT MARKETING MUSICAL 
INSTRUMENTS WORLDWIDE. So, your MIRROR site will 
instantaneously linked to our global network of millions 
of prospect buyers. We will provide you with all the 
necessary marketing needed to effect various local marketing 
drives. WE DO THE REST!  Ie. Daily processing, on-line 
marketing, and transactions. Our elite promotions will 
generate sufficient traffic through your site.

4) We will provide you with various marketing materials, 
data, and databases for you to utilize to promote your site 
on and off line. We will register your site in up to 1,000 
Search Engines, and in multiple keyword categories, and in 
high priority.

5) Once all of the 300+ worldwide agents have been implemented,
we will open a ON-LINE CYBERMALL whereby buyers wil be able to 
go to ANY MIRROR SITE and make purchases via Credit Cards and 
all information and processing will be automated.

BACKGROUND INFORMATION

Our Homepage is one of the most visited music sites on the 
web. The Alamo Group has developed various Internet Marketing 
softwares that are perhaps the most powerful lead generating 
tools on the Net. We have built up a database of over 3.5 
million prospective clients that are interested in purchasing 
musical instruments. 

We look forward to assisting you to become prosperous agents. 
Thank you very much for your attention to the above matters!

Kindest regards,

Gerald A. Alleva
President

************************************************************
*    _ _      _            _ _      _ _    _ _    _ _ _    *
*   /   \    | |          /   \    |   \  /   |  /  __  \  *
*  / /_\ \   | |         / /_\ \   | |\ \/ /| | /  /  \  \ *
* / _ _ _ \  | |_ _ _   / _ _ _ \  | | \__/ | | \  \__/  / *
*/_/     \_\ |_ _ _ _| /_/     \_\ |_|      |_|  \_ _ _ /  *
*                                                          *
*               "THE ONE-STOP MUSIC SHOP"                  *
************************************************************
*                                   ,-all brands/models    *
*             _ _ _                /|-lowest prices        *
* |\___ALAMO__|_|_|_(__TRADE LTD._/ |-large inventory      *
* |/----//---[!|!|!]-----\\-------\ |-fast service         *
*       [| (G|E|R|A|L|D) |]        \|-all credit cards     *
*       \\=(A|L|L|E|V|A)=//         '-high traffic site    *
*        \\__|*|*|*|____// -100% satisfation guaranteed    *
*            [_]_[_]                                       *
*                                                          *
*  mailto:reply-now@highpro.com?Subject=ALAMO_MIRROR_SITES *
*          Telephone/Fax: (852) 2987-9273                  *
*             BOOKMARK our HOMEPAGE NOW                    *
*               http://www.alamohk.com                     *
************************************************************
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: info@digfrontiers.com
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 23:52:54 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Digital Frontiers Newsletter #2 - Correction
Message-ID: <199806150652.BAA10668@nero.interaccess.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Digital Frontiers Newsletter #2
-------------------------------
Thank you for your interest in Digital Frontiers web optimization
products. This email is to inform you of some recent changes to our
product lineup. If you don't want to receive future mailings, our
apologies -- please reply to info@digfrontiers.com. 

We apologize if you have received more than one copy of this newsletter - we're trying to improve our list management software, but are still working out the kinks.

*** 10% Off on all HVS Products! ***
------------------------------------
In a blatant ploy to get you off the golf course/beach and back in front of your computer optimizing your web graphics (just kidding), we're offering a 10% discount across our entire product line until July 15. There's never been a better time to purchase the award-winning HVS series.

*** HVS Animator Version 1.03 ***
---------------------------------
Version 1.03 of HVS Animator has just been released for Macintosh. This new version includes the ability to set exact loop counts. We expect the Windows version to be available within a few days. For your free download please visit our website at http://www.digfrontiers.com.

*** NEW! HVS ColorGIF 2.0/HVS Animator Pro Bundle ***
-----------------------------------------------------
HVS Animator Pro, the GIF animation editor/optimizer that contains the same size-squeezing technology as HVS GIFCruncher, can now be purchased with HVS ColorGIF 2.0 for only $145. Also, The HVS Toolkit Pro, which includes HVS ColorGIF 2.0, HVS JPEG, and HVS Animator Pro, is available for only $208.

If you already own HVS ColorGIF 2.0, if you register you can upgrade to HVS Animator Pro for $49. Both can be purchased via our secure commerce server at:

 http://www.digfrontiers.com/purchase.html 

*** Reviews ***
---------------
In the June issue of PC Graphics & Video, HVS optimization stacks up quite favorably against higher-profile (and more expensive) offerings from Adobe, Macromedia, and others. Take a look. By the way - they misprinted the price at $599 for our Toolkit Pro - its actually $208!

Andy King, a leading industry analyst and Managing Editor of Mecklermedia's webreference.com, looks at HVS ColorGIF 2.0 in a detailed article on color reduction. Go to http://www.webreference.com/dev/graphics/reduce.html.

*** HVS GIFCruncher Update ***
------------------------------
The response to HVS GIFCruncher, our free GIF optimization service, has been overwhelming. The reports we're getting indicate that GIFCruncher users are thrilled with the results. We have had enough load that the current server is getting bogged down at times. So we're moving HVS GIFCruncher to a fast new server - we expect to be online by late June. If you haven't tried GIFCruncher yet, give it a spin - it can reduce the size of your GIFs by 50% or more - http://www.digfrontiers.com/gcrunch.html. Currently, all enabled HVS GIFCruncher features are free so everyone can get acquainted with the service and the excellent results it can produce. We will be transitioning to a fee basis for Custom and Batch operations in a few weeks, but basic operations will remain free. 

On a related note, we've had many requests for a desktop version of HVS GIFCruncher. We're working on it now, and expect it to be ready in a few weeks - if you would like to be included on an early release list, please let us know at info@digfrontiers.com. 

The HVS GIFCruncher Webmaster Version is available now, and can automatically process an entire local, FTP or HTTP directory -- or an entire site -- and optimize all the GIFs that it finds using award-winning HVS optimization algorithms. Details are at http://www.digfrontiers.com/gc_wv_faq.html.

Thanks for your time and keep conserving bandwidth with HVS products! 

-----------------
Digital Frontiers
1019 Asbury Ave.
Evanston, IL 60202
847-328-0880 voice
847-869-2053 fax
info@digfrontiers.com
http://www.digfrontiers.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSqncrs@aol.com
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 02:59:49 -0700 (PDT)
To: Cypherpunks@toad.com (coolness)
Subject: The I.R.S.
Message-ID: <4b63593f.3584f05d@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Cypherpunks, I've tied a bunch of stuff together on the big conspiracy I've
discovered, think you'll find the additions interesting.  If you want to know
why popular music sucks, my page basicly shows you why.

Thanks for listening,

Stan
======
'The MOST Important Music Page on the Net!'
http://members.aol.com/whtsametu/camel/




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Global Web Builders 
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 14:53:52 -0700 (PDT)
To: (Recipient list suppressed)
Subject: Pauline Hanson deceived - Toyota need to know
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980614214444.00718f6c@mail.pronet.net.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Dear One Nation supporter in NSW

It is with great sadness that I have to alert you, yet again, to the
unethical behaviour of Channel 9's 60 MINUTES programme. This follows the
programme "A CALL TO ARMS" on 7th June in which they tried, without
foundation, to link One Nation to "US extremist militia" just days before
the state election.

See: http://www.gwb.com.au/60.html

Last night a segment on 60 MINUTES featured One Nation and an extensive
interview between Paul Lyneham and Pauline Hanson. 

Her appearance made a liar of her as she is on the record as saying that she
would not again be interviewed by 60 MINUTES.

Pauline Hanson told me this morning, 

QUOTE:

"There was no mention about my interview with Paul Lyneham being for 60
Minutes. The programme approached me a couple of weeks ago and I turned them
down. I feel deceived by 60 Minutes."

"I was shocked when I saw my interview with Lyneham appearing on Sixty
Minutes last night. 60 Minutes know that I do not want to appear on their
programme." 

END QUOTE.

This behaviour cannot be helpful to the excellent reputation of their major
sponsor Toyota.

You may contact them at

toyota@spike.com.au

Please take a moment to tell them how you feel about these issues.

GWB




Scott Balson





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bruce Schneier 
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 06:15:21 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: I have the Twofish paper in pdf; thanks
Message-ID: <199806151315.IAA08574@mixer.visi.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


You can stop sending me new versions.

Thanks,
Bruce
**********************************************************************
Bruce Schneier, President, Counterpane Systems     Phone: 612-823-1098
101 E Minnehaha Parkway, Minneapolis, MN  55419      Fax: 612-823-1590
                                            http://www.counterpane.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 05:33:27 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Prepare Y2K
Message-ID: <199806151233.IAA10510@camel7.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


NYT Magazine, June 14, 1998:

PREPARE YE 

This will make for a gloomy five days, but from June 29 to 
July 3 disaster experts from all over will convene in 
Russellville, Ark., to talk about "Principles and Practice 
of Disaster Relief and Recovery." 

Sessions cover: How to create an emergency mass mortuary, 
toxic-waste cleanups and dealing with nuclear meltdown. 

Vernie R. Fountain, of the Fountain National Academy of 
Professional Embalming Skills in Springfield, Mo., will 
discuss "identification of the dead" after natural and 
man-made disasters. 

Natural disasters have killed 181 people this year in the 
United States; there have been more than 600 tornadoes. 

Are we in jinxed times? "It's been a pretty good year so 
far, not a lot of terrorism," says Matthew Blais, a 
nuclear-terrorism expert. "But there are a lot of crazy 
people out there, saving up for the big one. You never 
know when." 

---





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: reply664@yahoo.com
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 07:19:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: FREE PHONESEX (664)410-4332
Message-ID: <199806151420.KAA15493@unix.asb.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Dear Sir/Madam:

Due to our 1 year aniversary,  we are giving you a FREE treat!
For the next month you can call the number below and have FREE PHONESEX!
The first two hours of any of your calls in the next month will be

***** ABSOLUTELY FREE!!  NO QUESTIONS ASKED! *****

so pick up the phone and call (664)410-4332 NOW!

our girls are hot, young, blond, horny and want to play with you NOW!

CALL  (664)410-4332 NOW!!





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: mscompia@microsoft.com
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 11:18:21 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Information From The Microsoft Personal Information Center
Message-ID: <023bf4617180f68UPIMSSMTPSYS08@msn.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Here is your password you requested from the Microsoft Personal Information Center at http://register.microsoft.com/regwiz/personalinfo.asp.

Password: writecode

If you continue to have access problems or want to report other issues, please contact us through the Write Us button at the top of any Microsoft page.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSqncrs@aol.com
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 15:31:43 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com (coolness)
Subject: Response to Anon.
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Nobody writes - << Hi Stan - 
I think your link you referenced above is incorrect (but I found it anyway).  
You might want to try using 
http://members.aol.com/whtsametau/camel instead.

Thanks for posting the link, but you have raised some questions.  During an 
interview with Gilmour/Waters, they said that the album "The Wall" was about a
"wall of reality" between the band and Pink Floyd's fans (these are their 
words EXACTLY). >>

Obviously, because of your next obvservation, I find this to be incredible.


<< I find it interesting that you also emulate a "Wall Of 
Reality" and use Pink Floyd's music to back it up.  You seem to be giving 
mixed signals - in Pink Floyd's case, a "Wall Of Reality" would be a BAD 
thing.  I wasn't sure what message you were trying to get out. >>

Also - <<  Also, wasn't the whole point of Pink Floyd's The Wall to 
"tear down the wall"?  You are sending some conflicting 
messages.  You might want to re-think your strategy. >>


My big mistake there, was to allow supposed Floyd sites on.  I've been
thinking about that very thing and will be making changes to that ring (or
I'll be destroying it).  I appreciate your constructive criticism, thanks!
Remember, I created that wall before I knew about the I. R. S..  I also have
many changes that need to be done to What's A Meta U (and What's It 2 U?),
they'll have to wait a little longer as well, I now have a more important
page.

Stan 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: afriend@plato.qi3.com
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 03:01:31 -0700 (PDT)
To: jijipep7@aol.com
Subject: hello
Message-ID: <219806133963VAA14895@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




SAY GOOD-BYE TO AOL TIMERS AND ELIMINATE YOUR FRUSTRATION FOREVER!! 
  Are you tired of the "AOL Timers" interrupting your time on the internet? Are
  you looking for something to solve this problem? HOW MANY TIMES HAVE YOU:
  Stepped out of the room to go to the bathroom to find out you have been kicked off AOL.
  Then you have a hard time getting back on!! Or, you were downloading a file and AOL kicks
  you offline. Then it takes forever to do it all over again!! This "SOFTWARE PROGRAM"
  dismisses the "idle" and 46-minute "stayonline" messages that AOL uses to annoy the hell out
  of its members. Once you install the software, you do nothing but enjoy being on AOL.
  Before I had this program installed, I had to reboot when this happened. It is a small memory
  resident program (actual disk size is 119KB - IBM Compatible only). The timer hits the
     buttons automatically when they come up. THIS "SOFTWARE PROGRAM" WILL BE
     EMAILED AS SOON AS WE RECEIVE YOUR ORDER (Not for MAC Users). 

     HOW TO ORDER YOUR TIMER 
     This program sells for $5. Send a check, money order, or cash to: Aaron McKay
     21111 hwy 140 E. Dairy OR, 97625
     Name:_______________________________________________________________________________________________
     Street Address:__________________________________________
     City:_____________________________________________State:__________
     ZipCode:____________ Area Code & Phone:__________________________
     EMAIL:___________________________








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 08:21:51 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: icomputing: "Naive Realism"
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




"Cryptoanarchist" makes it to the printed word.  Can an OED entry be far
behind? :-).

Of course, it dawns on me that she might mean "cryptoanarchist", below, in
the same way that Vidal called Buckley a "cryptofascist"...

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga

"Web doyenne?"

----------

http://www.zdnet.com/icom/content/columns/1998/05/techno.realists/index.html
[Image]
  [ZDNet]               [Click here for Microsoft Daily News.]
                                        [Image]

                             [Try out ZD Internet Magazine]

                                                                   [
                                                           Commentaries
                                                           ]

                                                           May
                                                           11,
                                                           1998

                                                           Naive
                                                           Realism:
                                                           Taking
                                                           on
                                                           the
                                                           Technorealists

                                                           Practical
                                                           development
                                                           of
                                                           the
Internet comes from doing
practical things.

By Angela Gunn

The technorealist manifesto,
in case you missed it, is a
pompous version of the "Why
The Internet Isn't Evil"
speech you give to your mom's
bridge club.

Unleashed back in March, the
"manifesto" was authored by many people who just a year or two ago were
blathering about the world-changing, paradigm-shifting, cryptoanarchist Net,
scaring your mom's bridge club so thoroughly that, well, they asked you if
the Internet was evil.

Drop by the technorealism site and read this document. Sign it if you like.
Just don't expect it to make any difference to you or yours.

The manifesto is a simplistic summation of points most of us inside the
industry already know from years of experience, thought, and online
discussion. And for those outside the industry, it's all but
incomprehensible.

The whole thing stinks of college-student libertarianism, except for the
part about government having an important role to play on the electronic
frontier (a point that galled several actual Libertarians and college
students, as evidenced by their parody sites).

And it's frivolous. Development of the Internet as a practical entity comes
from the doing of practical things with the Internet. The programmer
laboring to improve customer access to a tech-support database, the site
producer working to streamline her site's design, the people who gave us
online ticket ordering and package tracking and hotel reservations--these
are the people who will convince the rest of the world that the Net is
worthwhile and important.

And in the battle to shape the Net, the genuine visionaries, theorists, and
even the political analysts have already taken the field. By assuming the
mantle of public debate, the too-fabulous New Media in-crowd behind the
manifesto has done a disservice to those of us in for the long haul.

Put another way, this fashionable cyber-asceticism is bad news to those
actually involved with technology--condescending in assuming that those in
the trenches can't understand the ramifications of what they do, oblivious
in assuming that there's anything fresh in the manifesto, and irresponsible
in not crafting a document that provides a genuine foundation for
discussion; that is, a real manifesto.

And that's what is really galling: they blew a good opportunity. This vague,
random document doesn't lay groundwork for discussing the real social issues
confronting technologists, creators, consumers, and citizens.

The real battle--to bring the Net to its rightful, humble, ubiquitous place
in the world's social, political, and economic life--has little to do with
manifesto pronouncements such as "We are technology 'critics' in the same
way, and for the same reasons, that others are food critics, art critics, or
literary critics."

The public is best brought onto the battlefield by careful, informed,
comprehensible discourse; these "critics" haven't even drawn up a readable
map of the countryside.

Don't let this single-mast ship of fools sail away with the discussion. They
have no authority (intellectual, moral, or otherwise) to dictate the terms
of debate, especially since their manifesto makes such a mess of it. That
debate belongs to you and me and the rest of the industry--and your mom's
bridge club--at least as much as it does to these
Siskel-and-Ebert-come-latelies.

But don't forget: when you're done amusing yourself with the technorealists'
down-the-middle drive for pundit spots in Harper's, The Nation, and the Utne
Reader, you've got a lot of work to do to build the real Internet.

Web doyenne Angela Gunn has been covering the Internet and its culture for
nine years. Send e-mail to agunn@zd.com.

Send us your questions and comments about the Internet Computing MegaSite.

                 [Navigate the Internet Computing MegaSite]

                                   [Image]
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
Philodox: , e$: 
               





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Telco Telefonia" 
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 15:41:41 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: Telephone security - Greetings from Italy
Message-ID: <001101bd9948$f32316a0$ede53ec3@mauro>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hi.
We are looking for resellers, visit us.
This is a message of promotion and information; you belong to a list whose
adherent we think to have interested in the telephone security and the
telephone market.
Best regards
Dario MARLIA - President  TELCO Telefonia
dmarlia@telco.it

Home page : http://www.telco.it
Home page Security Telephone Products: http://www.telco.it/security
Home page Telephone Equipments: http://www.telco.it/telephony
Home page Computer Telephone Integration (CTI): http://www.telco.it/computer
Home page Italian Decorator Phones: http://www.telco.it/telephones

To let be canceled by the list it is simple, is enough to re-send (forward)
this message to: deleteme@telco.it

*********************************************
company:        TELCO Telefonia srl
address:          via dei Metalmeccanici, 53
city:                CAPEZZANO Camaiore/Lucca
country:          ITALY
zip:                 55040-i
Tel:                +39(0)584 969608 - 969654 - 969621
Fax :              +39(0)584 969637 - 969672
e-mail:            telco@telco.it
visit us at        http://www.telco.it
*********************************************





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mshall@aol.com
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 18:44:03 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: gjhyjfg
Message-ID: <11ce60ed.35873618@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


ghjkgjfj




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: fay16@msn.com (free)
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 06:07:49 -0700 (PDT)
To: fay16@msn.com
Subject: FREE TRIAL MEMBERSHIP
Message-ID: <19980617525OAA44566@post.nwnet.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


THE LATEST IN ADULT TECHNOLOGY!!!

BRAND NEW XXX ADULT SITE

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****************************************
****************************************




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Alan Tu 
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 04:35:58 -0700 (PDT)
To: Cypher Punks Mailing List 
Subject: Please update this
Message-ID: <199806170913_MC2-407F-35CC@compuserve.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hi all,

First of all, since I am not subscribed to the list, please reply to my
address atu5713@compuserve.com

You know, there is a program written in the Euphoria programming language
that helps in chaining remailers.  It also works with PGP.  Before I try
it, however, I want to know if the remailers in the .ini file are still
operating.  Would someone please tell me if the following remailers are
still operating.  * means that the remailer supports encryption by pgp.

        hh@pmantis.berkeley.edu
        hh@cicada.berkeley.edu
        hh@soda.berkeley.edu
        nowhere@bsu-cs.bsu.edu
        remail@tamsun.tamu.edu
        remail@tamaix.tamu.edu
*       ebrandt@jarthur.claremont.edu
*       hal@alumni.caltech.edu
*       remailer@rebma.mn.org
*       elee7h5@rosebud.ee.uh.edu
*       phantom@mead.u.washington.edu
*       hfinney@shell.portal.com
*       remailer@utter.dis.org
        00x@uclink.berkeley.edu
*       remail@extropia.wimsey.com

thanks in advance.

--Alan
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Alan Tu 
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 07:06:06 -0700 (PDT)
To: Cypher Punks Mailing List 
Subject: Invalid reference
Message-ID: <199806171143_MC2-407E-7D24@compuserve.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


The chain program I referred to earlier is not, repeat not, as far as I
know, written in Euphoria.  I don't know what led me to think that.

--Alan
  




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: www@dejanews.com
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 09:41:21 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Deja News Registration Confirmation
Message-ID: <199806171819.NAA00836@x7.dejanews.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Welcome to My Deja News!

You have registered for My Deja News using the email address:
cypherpunks@toad.com. If you did not register for My Deja News, 
please ignore this message.

To enable you to post messages on Deja News, we must confirm 
your email address. This allows us to minimize "spam" and other
problems. To confirm your email address, visit the following Web
page:

http://www.dejanews.com/ec.xp/Zf6ae0a36706f3c065455878ce0a7f9a65e952de

If your email software supports it, you can simply click on the
link. Since this Web page address (URL) is quite lengthy, however,
you may find it necessary to copy the entire URL and paste it into
your Web browser.

As a reminder, your username is jahminh and your password 
is tonite.  You may wish to keep this email to refer to in 
case you forget.

If you have any questions about My Deja News, please refer to the
Help page at http://www.dejanews.com/help/help_regstr.shtml

Thanks,
Deja News





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Jason" 
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 09:52:05 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: Re: Crypto Books/Archive
Message-ID: <006101bd9a1d$29071120$a460a0d1@jason.kc1.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


> I have this idea bout making a cryptography program that will encrypt
> pictures. I know that you can do this with PGP, but I mean it in a
> little different way. What I want to do is this: You have opened a
> picture in, ACDSee for example, and you want some of the picture only
> for a certain person. So you chose that part of the picture, encrypt
> it, and send it to the person you want. What do you guys think?

Jan,


 I can't say that I full understand what you're doing, or maybe I just don't
see why you're doing it. If you mean that you want to take part of a picture
and encrypt it and send it to someone, couldn't you just crop the desired
section of the image out and save it as a different file, then encrypt it
via PGP, etc. I don't see how encrypting part of a picture is any different
than, say.. cutting part of a text file out and saving it to another file
and encrypting that portion of it. That isn't to say that if you had some
new form of encryption that it wouldn't be worth exploring, only that I tend
to question the originality or usefulness (relative to current, widely
available crypto technology) of your concept. Maybe you could explain it in
more detail to us.

...Jason Sloderbeck
stom@uit.net
Plasmic Computer Systems







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: haxor_401@juno.com (OoOoOoO OoOoOoO)
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 13:57:41 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <19980617.165512.6918.1.HaXoR_401@juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


What is the command to recieve this list in DIGEST form.?

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jan 
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 08:10:25 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Crypto Books/Archive
Message-ID: <3587F42C.53275B32@kki.net.pl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Greetings,

I wish to inquire where I can buy books about cryptography. If these
bookstores are located somewhere in Europe then it would be a little
more convenient for me, if not, then that's not too much of a problem.
Thanks in advance.

I'm working on my archive, although the reason why there hasn't been
anything new for a while is because I'm doing preparation courses in
math and physics for the Warsaw University of Technology. However,
I'll have something new on there soon. The reason why there isn't
anything great at the moment is because I'm a lousy worker, so I can't
be rushed.

I have this idea bout making a cryptography program that will encrypt
pictures. I know that you can do this with PGP, but I mean it in a
little different way. What I want to do is this: You have opened a
picture in, ACDSee for example, and you want some of the picture only
for a certain person. So you chose that part of the picture, encrypt
it, and send it to the person you want. What do you guys think?

Sincerely yours,
Jan




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC 
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 20:31:50 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: SweatHog Log -- SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS!!!
Message-ID: <009C7DB7.A54F7F00.23@west.cscwc.pima.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


SweatHog Log -- SPACE ALIENS HIDE M DRUGS!!!
---------------------------------------------

[Austin Nutly News--LoneBeerState]IT WAS THE tURKEbASTE
of times, it was the LiverWurst of times...
Bob Wills Beer and Lone Star Music. Captain BeefJerky and
the Lost Bozo Band opening for Jerry Jeff Garcia and the
DreadFul Drunks at the Split Lip Saloon. Knocking back
shots of Townsend's Treacherous Treat at Amaretto World
HindQuarters. Mom Nelson declaring C.J. Parker to be her
illegitimately adopted son, making him a half-nelson and
making him live in the basement of the outhouse behind 
Willie's Fool Hall.

A million degrees in the shade and TruthMongrel sitting in
the truck in the parking lot of the HEB Central Market Cafe
while Toto was inside drinking cold beer and asking the
barmaid what type of wine goes with TruckRoasted PuppyDog.
Drinking West Texas ChugWater...


Austin CypherPunks gathered around a couple of tables in 
the beer garden, the BigRedBook unflapping in the breeze
and serving as a standard to rally together a handful of
anarchist frontiers(wo)men to prepare to stand as the lone
outpost against the mighty Digital Army of Santa AnnaChrist
in his War Against The Digitally United States of Terra.
JimBob Choate drawing a line in the sand...
Most of the CypherPunks crossed that line--the bar was on
the other side of it--but they came back.

A strange, deranged desperado appearing out of nowhere to
announce that someone had nuked DC, and he wanted to ask
them a few questions, then sitting down and babbling in a
nonsensical manner in order to distract their attention 
while he played footsie with the blonde sitting across from
him, until she finally left, in disgust.
WeBeastMaster JimBob waiting until only the StewedGuy and
the Disparate Stranger were left before passing along the
SecretMessageThatHadNoMeaning from Declan McCullagh. The
Dissipating Strangler fading into the mist with a bottle
of red wine tucked under his arm.

Lieutenant JimBob Choate, Army of Dog-Digital Division &
MeatSpace Multiplication, feeling a shiver go down his spine
as he walked slowly to his vehicle, heard a TruthMongrel
howling in the distance, and realized that 'red wine' goes
with TruckRoasted PuppyDog.]


  MenInTheShadows unable to find the second VirtualNuclear
Device claimed to have been planted in a pubic building
eleven KILLometers from MongerItaVille--wondering if their
first mistake hadn't been to threaten a six-year old child
and his mother with deportation from Canada if they continued
to involve themselves in the battle for Medicare in Saskatchewan.
  For almost a half-century thereafter, the child had been a
thorn in their side, seemingly breaking every rule in the book,
violating everything that anal-retentive WhiteCanadianImmigrants
held sacred as they strove to promote the Rule of (White)Law
in the Great White Snort. Despite their many failed attempts
to imprison him, ususally succeeding only in harrassing him
and causing him great personal loss and expense, they had never
before had to fear for their own lives and the safety of their
families, but now all that had changed...

  An elite, secretive cabal of Mounties gathered around a table
reviewing the security implications of a hidden file being found
on their computer system which had the same name as the file
on the floppy disk left at the site of the first VirtualNuclear
Device found in a public building eleven KILLometers from
MongerItaVille.
  Silence in the room as each of them heard, in their own mind,
the screams of the Author as they resounded through the Analogue
Reality of his home in Bienfait, through the Digital Reality of
MongerItaVille, and through the MeatSpace DigiZeros on a dozen
or more Canadian Government computer systems.
  "OU WANT TO FUCK WITH *CHILDREN*? OU WANT TO STEAL M NEPHEWS'
COMPUTERS? OU WANT TO FILE FALSE CHARGES ON M NEIGHBOR'S FUTURE
LITTLE GLUE-SNIFFER, OU NAZI RATFUCKERS?
  "THE *MEATSPACE* REVOLUTION IS *NOW*!!!!"


  The Author may be bluffing, of course, but could they really 
afford to take that chance?
  HeOrShe had offered them "pole position" on receiving the key
that the BackDoor Boogie (TM) was being played in to provide a
soundtrack to the RCMP Musical Ride taking place on Trojan Horses
ridden by DigitalAnarchists throughout Canadian Government computer
systems.

  The offer was simple enough...return all of the stolen computers
to the possession of Human Gus-Peter and the RCMP would get the
checkered flag in the race against finding their digital security
breach...if there, in fact, *was* one...
  The 'clues' of its existence were rather vague, though startling,
and they could conceivably be the result of collusion on a part of
the Author's widespread Inner Circle, which undoubtedly included
more than a few people with access to secure Canadian Government
computer systems.
  Of course, the phrase 'pole position' implied that there were
others in the race who the Author could bless with the checkered
flag if they were the first to provide Human Gus-Peter with a
state-of-the-art portable multi-media computer such as the one
that had been stolen from the Author, but the Mounties were
reluctant to suffer the loss of face that would be involved in
rectifying the consequences of their own illegal and heavy-handed
acts of oppression and repression.

  The Mounties knew that they were, to a certain extent, vulnerable,
having actively promoted the persecution of a mentally unstable
individual at a time when his medications were running low, in the
hope that he would explode in a manner that would cause him to
perform actions which he could be legally held accountable for.
It wouldn't look good, however, if it came out that the Mounties
themselves were taking the precaution of wearing bullet-proof vests
for their own protection during their attempts to provoke the
Author to actions of raging insanity, while leaving the children of
the community vulnerable to the MeatSpace actions of a violent
psychotic currently writing the "Bienfait Nutly News 'KILL THE
CHILDREN' Special."


  The RCMP had failed to intercept the computer disks and audio
tapes that the Author had mailed to Declan McCullagh from Montana,
but the Netly News journalist had not yet received them, so it
seemed that *someone* had intercepted them.
  Every indication was that there was only a single copy of the
material the Author had stashed south of the 49th parallel just
before his computers were confiscated, but there was no telling,
for sure. Besides, the Mounties had confiscated the voice-activated
tape recorder they found on their last illegal entry to his home,
and the audio tapes he had could conceivably be of one of the
American intelligence agents monitoring his residence, such as
the retired Air Force Intelligence officer who had become rather
friendly with him at the CoalDust Saloon.]
  It was a shame that the Author had found and destroyed the
'evidence' they had planted in his truck shortly before he 
skipped the country, but the 'evidence' they had 'found' after
his departure would suffice. The reference to the *second*
VirtualNuclearDevice was troubling, however, since its existence,
if real, could result in the whole operation blowing up in their
face.

  Nonetheless, the Mounties considered it better to lose a few
citizens, or even a whole town, than to lose face, and the
Author's modus operandi was to provide fair warning before the
date and time of his nefarious activities, so the Mounties were
confident that they could follow in the footsteps of the BATF and
arrange to be conveniently gone when the shit hit the fan.

  Then they would have that ShitDisturbingMonster dead to rights...







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSqncrs@aol.com
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 17:51:34 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: One last time
Message-ID: <9be137bf.3588643d@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Sorry about buggin' you guys so much on this, but I think I have a final piece
of the puzzle together.  It's amazing how well all the pieces fit.  I think
now the big task is to keep it on-line (and promotion - spread the word!).

If you weren't convinced before, this should do it.  Check it out again,

Stan,

http://members.aol.com/whtsametau/camel/index.htm





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jan 
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 13:55:17 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Cypherpunk on IRC
Message-ID: <35882DF4.18A9D0C6@kki.net.pl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Greetings...

So where are you people on IRC? it would be nice to talk more directly
bout crypto ideas....

Jan




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jan 
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 15:09:06 -0700 (PDT)
To: Jason 
Message-ID: <35883F39.954C5B5D@kki.net.pl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Jason wrote:
> 
> > I have this idea bout making a cryptography program that will encrypt
> > pictures. I know that you can do this with PGP, but I mean it in a
> > little different way. What I want to do is this: You have opened a
> > picture in, ACDSee for example, and you want some of the picture only
> > for a certain person. So you chose that part of the picture, encrypt
> > it, and send it to the person you want. What do you guys think?
> 
> Jan,

Greetings,
 
>  I can't say that I full understand what you're doing, or maybe I just don't
> see why you're doing it. If you mean that you want to take part of a picture
> and encrypt it and send it to someone, couldn't you just crop the desired
> section of the image out and save it as a different file, then encrypt it
> via PGP, etc. I don't see how encrypting part of a picture is any different
> than, say.. cutting part of a text file out and saving it to another file
> and encrypting that portion of it. That isn't to say that if you had some
> new form of encryption that it wouldn't be worth exploring, only that I tend
> to question the originality or usefulness (relative to current, widely
> available crypto technology) of your concept. Maybe you could explain it in
> more detail to us.
> 
> ...Jason Sloderbeck
> stom@uit.net
> Plasmic Computer Systems

The idea is like with the plug-in for Pegasus Mail. You don't need to
go to PGP encrypt the message and then send it. You can do that right
through the Pegasus Mail. Same idea with my program. Would make it a
little faster instead of encrypting your piece of picture in many
steps you can do it with one push of a button.

Another thing. You're right. You can cut the piece of picture you want
to encrypt and then encrypt that little piece. But if you want to send
the whole image, and make that little piece invisible to everyone else
but the sender... this is what I'm getting at. If someone still
doesn't understand, I'll try again later.

Sincerely yours,
Jan




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: video@streetparty.org
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 05:48:42 -0700 (PDT)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: Win this video!
Message-ID: <199806181228.IAA14928@ncc.uky.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Video from
STREET PARTY '98 - UK WILDCAT STYLE
http://www.angelfire.com/biz/web201c5/index.html





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Martin Bishop 
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 05:52:03 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: TheCodex's D.I.R.T. surveillance software
Message-ID: <19980618125041.28878.rocketmail@send1a.yahoomail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I have come across a webpage at

http://www.thecodex.com/dirt.html

that describes a so-called D.I.R.T. (Data Interception by Remote
Transmission) software enabling the attacker (be it a criminal or
police or govt.) to remotely keep a close eye on everything that't
going on on the target PC. I can pretty much imagine how it works once
it's installed but what I'd like to know is *how* it gets installed on
the target computer?
I would also appreciate any info about the product from people with
first hand experience, since I intend to do an in-depth research for
one of the European Governments.

Thanks in advance!

Rgds,

Martin Bishop




_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 05:52:22 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Senators Challenge Crypto Policy
Message-ID: <199806181252.IAA06378@camel14.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


[Congressional Record: June 17, 1998 (Senate)]

                               ENCRYPTION

  Mr. LOTT. Mr. President, I rise today out of concern for our nation's
computer and electronic industries. As you are well aware, the
Administration's

[[Page S6438]]

export policies prohibit American companies from selling state-of-the-
art encryption technology abroad without recovery keys and back door
access. Encryption is a series of mathematical formulas that scramble
and unscramble data and communications. It is used to thwart computer
hackers, industrial and foreign espionage agents, and criminals from
gaining access to and reading sensitive personal, business, and
military communications. The higher the bit-key length, the more
difficult it is for unauthorized persons to break the code. Technically
advanced encryption ensures that an individual's medical, financial,
business, personal records and electronic-mail cannot be accessed
without their consent. The Administration is now promoting the
deployment of recovery keys so designated third parties would be able
to access and share with law enforcement the computer data and
communications of American citizens without their knowledge. Currently,
government mandated key escrow is not required and is opposed by the
computer industry, privacy advocates, legal scholars, and by many
members of Congress.

  Mr. LEAHY. While current law does not mandate any key recovery, the
current Administration, just as past Administrations, uses the export
control regime to ``dumb down'' the encryption available for widespread
integration into high-tech products intended for both domestic use and
for export to foreign customers. Export regulations in place now are
being used expressly to coerce the development and use of encryption
products capable of giving law enforcement surreptitious access to
plaintext by conditioning the export of 56-bit DES encryption on
development of key recovery features.

  These regulations are scheduled to sunset in December 1998, at which
time export of even 56-bit strength encryption will no longer be
permitted. I understand that the Administration is already undertaking
discussions with industry on what will happen upon sunset of these
regulations. I have long contended that taking unilateral steps will
not resolve this issue, but instead could delay building the consensus
we so urgently need. This issue simply cannot by resolved by Executive
fiat.

  Mr. ASHCROFT. Mr. President, I have been involved in the debate
regarding encryption technology and privacy for more than three years
now. In the course of that time I have not seen any real attempt by the
White House to resolve this problem. In fact, over the course of that
time the Administration has moved further from negotiation by taking
increasingly extreme positions on this critical national issue.

  Mr. CRAIG. Mr. President, as you have heard, current U.S. policy
allows only encryption below the 56-bit key length to be sold abroad.
For a long time now, software companies have argued that this level of
encryption is so low it provides little security for the information
being transmitted over the ``super highway.'' This policy also states
that, in the production of encryption stronger than 56-bit, software
companies must provide some type of ``backdoor'' access to ensure law
enforcement can decode encrypted material.

  Addressing this from an economic perspective, customers--especially
foreign customers--are unwilling to purchase American encryption
products with backdoors and third-party access. This is particularly
true since they can buy stronger encryption overseas from either
foreign-owned companies or American owned companies on foreign soil
without these invasive features.

  Mr. WYDEN. Since coming to the Senate, I have worked side-by-side
with Senators Burns, Ashcroft, Leahy and others on the critical issue
of encryption. Our common goal has been to craft a policy that puts the

United States squarely out front of the crypto-curve, rather than locks
us permanently behind it. A one-size-fits-all government policy simply
won't work in this digital era. We all recognize and acknowledge the
legitimate needs of law enforcement and the national security
communities, but tying the hands of America's high technology industry
in the process will serve neither those needs, nor the national
interest in maintaining our competitive edge in the fiercely
competitive global marketplace. It's time to move forward with
comprehensive encryption reform legislation.

  Mr. BURNS. I would like to point out that the government's plan for
encryption--whether they call it ``key escrow'' or ``key recovery'' or
``plaintext access''--simply won't work. Eleven of the world's most
prominent computer security experts have told us government mandated
key recovery won't work because it won't be secure, as explained in a
study published this week by the Center for Democracy and Technology.
Key escrow also won't work because it will cost billions, as revealed
in a recent study published by the Business Software Alliance. We have
also been told that the kind of system the Administration wants is not
technically feasible. Additionally, constitutional scholars testified
that government mandated key escrow, third party recovery probably
violates the Bill of Rights.

  Mr. LOTT. Even though a national recovery system would be technically
unfeasible, costly, and violates an individual's privacy rights, the
Administration continues to require key escrow as a precondition for
relaxing America's encryption policy. Again, Mr. President, I would
point out that state-of-the-art encryption is available in the
international marketplace without key recovery and without backdoor
access. This backdoor door requirement is simply backward thinking
policy. It does not make sense to hold the computer industry hostage to
force the creation of such an unworkable system.

  Mr. BURNS. The Majority Leader is absolutely right. We do not need
experts to tell us key recovery will not work. All that is needed is a
little common sense to understand that no one will buy systems with
backdoor access. Criminals will not escrow their keys and terrorists
will find keyless systems from America's foreign competitors. There is
nothing we can do to stop undesirables from using strong, unescrowed
encryption.

  Mr. LOTT. Even though advanced encryption products are widely
available across the globe, the White House continues to stall
Congressional and industry attempts to reach a sensible market oriented
solution to the nation's outdated encryption export regime. This
stonewalling tactic will only cede even more of our nation's technology
market to foreign competitors and America will lose forever its ability
to sell encryption technology at home and abroad.

  It is time to change America's export policy before it is too late.
If the Administration will not do what is right, reform its export
regime, then Congress must enact encryption reform during this session.

  Mr. LEAHY. The Majority Leader is correct that reform of our
encryption policy is needed. The Attorney General came to the Hill in
March and asked for a legislative moratorium on encryption matters.
This request was made because the Administration wanted to talk with
the information technology industry about developing means for law
enforcement to gain surreptitious access to plaintext scrambled by
strong encryption. According to eleven of the world's leading
cryptographers in a report reissued on June 8, the technical risks and
costs of such backdoors ``will exacerbate, not alleviate, the potential
for crime and information terrorism'' for America's computer users and
our critical infrastructures.

  In the Senate we have a name for debate that delays action on
legislative matters. We call it a filibuster. On encryption policy, the
Administration has been willing to talk, but not to forge a real

solution. That amounts to a filibuster. The longer we go without a
sensible policy, the more jobs will be lost, the more we risk eroding
our privacy rights on the Internet, and the more we leave our critical
infrastructures vulnerable.

  Mr. BURNS. We can readily see that the current U.S. policy on
encryption jeopardizes the privacy of individuals, the security of the
Internet, and the competitiveness of U.S. industry. We have been
debating this issue since the Administration's introduction of the ill-
fated Clipper chip proposal over five years ago. Yet no substantial
change in Administration policy has taken place. It is time for us to
take action.

  I first introduced comprehensive encryption reform legislation in the

[[Page S6439]]

form of the Pro-CODE bill over two years ago, then reintroduced it in
this Congress with the cosponsorship of the Majority Leader, Senators
Ashcroft, Leahy, Wyden, and others. Along with Senators Ashcroft,
Leahy, and others, I am also an original cosponsor of the E-PRIVACY
bill, which would foster the use of strong encryption and global
competitiveness. We have held numerous hearings on the issue. Yet
despite the increasingly desperate drumbeat of criticism from industry,
individuals, and privacy groups, from across the political spectrum,
the Administration's policy has remained fundamentally unchanged.

  Mr. LEAHY. Since the hearing I chaired in May 1994 on the
Administration's ``Clipper Chip'' proposal, the Administration has
taken some steps in the right direction. Clipper Chip is now dead, and
the Administration has transferred authority over the export of
encryption products from the State Department to the Commerce
Department, as called for in legislation I introduced in the last
Congress with Senators Burns, Wyden and others. Furthermore, the
Administration has permitted the export of up to 56-bit DES encryption,
at least until the end of this year. But these actions are simply not
enough for our high-tech industries to maintain their leading edge in
the global marketplace.

  Mr. ASHCROFT. Our technology companies need to be able to compete
effectively. Without reasonable export laws our technology sector will
be seriously harmed. More encryption companies will leave the country
so they are free to sell their products around the globe as well as
within the United States. Make no mistake, the market will not be
denied. Today, robust encryption products from Canada, Japan, Germany
and elsewhere are being sold on the world market. You have heard of the
companies that are manufacturing and selling encryption. They are
Nortel, Nippon and Seimens. These are not upstart companies. They are
substantial players on the international scene, and they offer
encryption products that are technically and financially competitive
with those produced in the U.S.

  Mr. LOTT. That's right. In fact, a recent survey conducted by Trusted
Information Systems found that hundreds of foreign companies sell over
600 encryption products from 29 countries. It is even possible to
download some of the strongest technology available, 128-bit key length
encryption, off of the Internet. Clearly, America's policy of
restricting the sale of American encryption software and hardware has
not impacted the availability and use of this technology throughout the
globe.

  No one disputes the fact that the development and use of robust
encryption worldwide will continue with or without U.S. business
participation. What is particularly disturbing to me is that export
controls, instead of achieving their intended purpose, have only served
to deny America's premier computer industry the opportunity to compete
on a level playing field with foreign competitors. Costing our economy
and our nation billions of dollars and the loss of countless American
jobs in the process. Given the wide availability of encryption
technology, continuing to restrict U.S. access to foreign markets makes
no sense.

  Mr. ASHCROFT. That is absolutely correct. The Administration's
encryption policy is, in effect, a tax on American consumers. We owe it

to these customers and the innovators in the software industry to
reform this encryption policy now. From the birth of the United States,
this country has been a world leader in innovation, creativity,
entrepreneurship, vision and opportunity. Today all of these American
attributes are on display in our technology sector. Whether in
telecommunications, or computer hardware or software, the United States
has maintained a leadership position because of the opportunities
afforded to people with the vision, determination and responsibility to
reach for their highest and best. We must work diligently to ensure
that ample opportunities are maintained in this country for our
technology sector to continue to thrive and innovate. If companies are
stifled and cannot compete, then the people, the ideas, the jobs, and
the economic growth will simply go elsewhere.

  Mr. BURNS. In the computer business these days, they talk about
``Internet time.'' In the Internet industry, where product life cycles
can be as low as 6 months, the world changes rapidly. Yet we have been
debating this issue for over five years now, while America's sensitive
communications go unsecured, our critical information infrastructures
go unprotected, and our electronic commerce jobs get shipped overseas.
It is time for the Congress to act.

  Mr. ASHCROFT. If this issue is not resolved, and resolved soon, we
will lose this industry, we will lose our leadership position in
technology, and our national security will suffer. We have a choice to
make as policy makers--do we allow our companies to compete
internationally or do we force them, by our antiquated and ill-
conceived government policy, to move overseas. We cannot simply ignore
the reality that robust encryption exists in the international
marketplace now. Instead, we must allow our companies to compete, and
do so now. We cannot allow extraneous issues to stand in the way of
remedying the deficiencies with our current approach to encryption. We
must recognize that keeping the encryption industry on American shores
is the best way to ensure national security. We would not think of
allowing all our defense industries to move abroad. By the same token,
we should not force the encryption industry abroad through outdated
policies. Simply put, strong encryption means a strong economy and a
strong country. This concern is just one of the many reasons we need to
pass effective encryption legislation this year and just one of the
reasons that Senator Leahy and I recently drafted the E-PRIVACY bill,
S. 2067.

  Mr. LEAHY. I join with my colleagues from both sides of the aisle in
calling for passage of good encryption legislation that promotes
computer privacy, fosters the global competitiveness of our high-tech
industries, and encourages the widespread use of strong encryption as
an online crime prevention and anti-terrorism tool. The E-PRIVACY bill
that I have sponsored with Senator Ashcroft, Senator Burns and others,
satisfies these goals. Prompt Senate consideration of encryption
legislation is sorely needed to protect America's economy and security.

  Mr. CRAIG. Mr. President, the E-PRIVACY bill seeks to protect
individual privacy, while at the same time addressing national security
and law enforcement interests. It would also modernize export controls
on commercial encryption products.

  The E-Privacy Act specifically addresses the concerns of law
enforcement. First and foremost, it makes it a crime to intentionally
use encryption to conceal incriminating communications or information.
It also provides that with an official subpoena, existing wiretap
authority can be used to obtain communications decryption keys/
assistance from third parties.

  Mrs. MURRAY. Mr. President, I want to thank Senator Leahy, Senator
Burns and Senator Ashcroft as well as Senator Lott and Senator Daschle
for their work and leadership on the issue of encryption. I am proud to
be an original cosponsor of S. 2067, the E-PRIVACY Act.


  This is my sixth year as a member of the Senate and the sixth year I
have advocated for reasonable legislation on encryption. Sadly, the
Administration has not been a constructive player in this debate. It is
time for the United States to acknowledge that we no longer exclusively
control the pace of technology. Purchasers around the world can
download software off of the Internet from any country by simply
accessing a website. Foreign purchasers have turned to Russian, German,
Swiss and other foreign vendors for their encryption needs.

  Washington state and American companies deserve the opportunity to
compete free from unreasonable government restrictions. Their role in
the international marketplace should be determined by their ingenuity
and creativity rather than an outdated, ineffectual system of export
controls. The time to act is now. I urge the Senate to consider the E-
PRIVACY Act at the earliest opportunity.

  Mr. BURNS. The basic facts remain the same. People need strong,
unescrowed encryption to protect themselves online in the information

[[Page S6440]]

age. Law enforcement has legitimate concerns about the spread of this
technology, and we must work to provide them the tools and expertise
they need to keep up with advances in encryption technology. We cannot
stop time, however. The genie is out of the bottle. As Bill Gates, the
CEO of Microsoft, recently said, ``Encryption technology is widely
available outside the United States and inside the United States, and
that's just a fact of life.''

  Mr. CRAIG. With the rapid expansion of the ``super highway'' and
Internet commerce it is crucial we bring encryption legislation to the
forefront. A secure, private and trusted national and global
information infrastructure is essential to promote citizens' privacy
and economic growth.

  Mr. BURNS. As my colleagues recognize, technically advanced and
unobtrusive encryption is fundamental to ensuring the kind of privacy
Americans will need and desire in the years to come. Congress must
choose a future where individuals and companies will have the tools
they need to protect their privacy, not a future where people fear the
use electronic commerce because they have no security.

  I commend the Majority Leader, Senators Ashcroft, Leahy, Craig,
Wyden, and Murray for their vision and bipartisan leadership on this
issue. I hope that Congress will be able to move forward with real
encryption reform legislation that protects the privacy and security of
Americans in the Information Age, before it is too late.

  Mr. LOTT. I think it is worth repeating to my colleagues that the
Administration's approach to encryption makes no sense. It is not good
policy. Continuing to restrict the foreign sale of American encryption
technology that is already available abroad, or will soon be available,
is anti-business, anti-consumer, anti-jobs, and anti-innovation.

  The time for a change in America's export regime is long overdue.
Unfortunately, the Administration continues to support its outmoded and
competition-adverse encryption control policy. That is why this
Congress needs to find a legislative solution to this issue.

  If America's export controls are not relaxed now, then Congress
places in peril our entire technology industry. Not just those
companies that create and market encryption products and services, but
virtually every company involved in the development and sale of
computer hardware and software. Congress cannot and will not put
America's entire technological base at risk for an ineffective and
outmoded export policy on encryption.

                          ____________________







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 06:20:49 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Tim's views on the racial problem in America
In-Reply-To: <199806180256.EAA13151@basement.replay.com>
Message-ID: <199806181320.JAA04879@camel14.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


These bland-info-overloaded days, Blanc:

   The Center of Attention = the Eccentric

You will not be visible, listened to, or read online 
unless you got something deeply offensive to 
say, quote, report, swear to god to, degrading of
self and others, litigable, libellous, insulting, vulgar, 
prohibited by multiple laws, violative of fairness and 
decency, newsworthy, or a well-thought-out alternative 
to sheepledom, Joe Sixdom, PC, MC, Real Identity,
the Tax Code, unequal distribution of wealth, straight
sex, kinky sex, fat, diet, exercise, sloth, grammatical 
rigor, speaking in unknown tongues, numeracy, 
science, art, politics, religion, quantum computing,
nanotech, borderlessness, Y2K, the talk shows,
the amazing future of the Internet.

The center is gone for good, cry a tear, then bravely affirm:
good riddance to Ptolemaic centricity. Normalcy is now para.
Listen to what your teeth are picking up from the spectrum
transmitting to the inner ear bone: the spheres whistling
Dixie in the dark.

Tim's telling what the quarks are whispering.

Tim's an oddball wizard, we're all bank-shot eccentrics, 
no home on earth, we the intergalactic outcasts gumming
the dried teat once unemptiable: faith, self, clan, country,
ideology, bye, bye (white male) American pie.

There's one Rosebud refuge left: the US Senate/Bohemian
Club.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jan 
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 04:13:09 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Cypherpunks/IRC
Message-ID: <3588F701.46627B60@kki.net.pl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Greetings,

I go to #cypherpunks and it says that I create the room. Where the
heck is the room?

Jan




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Gowrynath Sivaganeshamoorthy 
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 05:19:32 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Cypherpunks/IRC
In-Reply-To: <3588F701.46627B60@kki.net.pl>
Message-ID: <19980618141915.A13879@stadtleben.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Du - Jan - hast am Thu, Jun 18, 1998 at 01:16:17PM +0200 folgendes zum Thema "Cypherpunks/IRC" geschrieben:
| Greetings,
| 
| I go to #cypherpunks and it says that I create the room. Where the
| heck is the room?
| 
| Jan

I think you need to say which net. IRCnen, DALnet, EFnet, UNDERnet ?

bye,

Gowry

-- 
	=>Gowrynath Sivaganeshamoorthy     		      Administration <
	=>IBS GmbH Hamburg		   	      	Ph: +49 40 668649 11 <
	=>Friedrich-Ebert-Damm 202a	  	      	Fx: +49 40 668649 49 <
	=>22047 Hamburg / Germany	       Ripe: IZAX / InterNic: GS6450 <
	=>Key fingerprint = E3 E2 28 FA A5 03 87 95  A2 6F EE 00 9F BB CE 21 <




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jan 
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 06:44:32 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: FLMASK
Message-ID: <35891A89.64D37B5F@kki.net.pl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Greetings,

This is the address of flmask... if you're intrested.
Side note: In my program I want to use PGP.
http://www.igat.com/flmask/home_e.htm
Sincerely yours,
Jan




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Nissa Marion 
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 13:17:26 -0700 (PDT)
To: Jan 
Subject: Re: Crypto Books/Archive
In-Reply-To: <006101bd9a1d$29071120$a460a0d1@jason.kc1.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980618161329.00578d60@pop3.ibm.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


>But if you want to send
>the whole image, and make that little piece invisible to everyone else
>but the sender... this is what I'm getting at. 

Man.. that would make it pretty useless to the receiver, now, wouldn't it?






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Nissa Marion 
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 13:30:43 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Cypherpunks/IRC
In-Reply-To: <3588F701.46627B60@kki.net.pl>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980618162751.0058a6c0@pop3.ibm.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 01:16 PM 6/18/98 +0200, you wrote:
>Greetings,
>
>I go to #cypherpunks and it says that I create the room. Where the
>heck is the room?
>
>Jan
>


Are you using EFnet? Because that is what was suggested to you, and I just
tried it and it was indeed there... There were only two people (maybe bots)
there, but it did certainly exist.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Max Inux 
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 18:40:50 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Cypherpunks/IRC
In-Reply-To: <3589906A.BA926D9@kki.net.pl>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


We are there on EfNet (#cypherpunks), most of the time nuge and I
atleast, and LuckyG comes in on occasion, aswell as others. I am Working
on securing the channel a bit now...

Billy

-- Max Inux (MaxInux@bigfoot.com) UIN: 207447, http://khercs.dyn.ml.org
Strong Cryptography makes the world a safer place- PGP: 0x5CCFCA59
Or Kinky sex makes the world go round- Christie: Your in my sig too
^^ If Cryptography is outlawed,  only outlaws will have cryptography ^^

 

On Fri, 19 Jun 1998, Jan wrote:

> 
> Greetings,
> 
> I tried EFNet and there was noone there. That's the reason why I was
> so frustrated... I'll try a few more time and tell relate what
> happened.
> Jan out.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: coy60@ohrid.cca.vu.nl
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 11:05:40 -0700 (PDT)
To: coy60@ohrid.cca.vu.nl
Subject: Returns You Have Asked For
Message-ID: <199806184210PAA51746@176.61.121.1>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


 
America's largest monopoly shattered!!!!!
New growth market 2 1/2 times size of telephone industry 
Now open to general public.
Over 50% returns. IRA approved.
More details and short video presentation here

http://205.134.183.46/fpc/alt.html





o




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: fiy83@unipa.it
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 10:51:28 -0700 (PDT)
To: fiy83@unipa.it
Subject: Check this out, It's worth a look
Message-ID: <199806182489ZAA56214@202.1.230.110>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Wayward Teens

They Can't Keep Their Damn Clothes On!!!

We've Captured It On Film, and We're Giving It Away!

For The Next Two Weeks Only!!!

Come To,   http://209.84.246.106/amateur/

You can also copy and paste the above URL.  



 7




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Blanc 
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 22:32:02 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Tim's views on the racial problem in America
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980617231318.0086ad00@cnw.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980618221716.00895b60@cnw.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


John Young wrote:

>The center is gone for good, cry a tear, then bravely affirm:
>good riddance to Ptolemaic centricity. Normalcy is now para.
>Listen to what your teeth are picking up from the spectrum
>transmitting to the inner ear bone: the spheres whistling
>Dixie in the dark.
............................................

I know just what you mean, JYA.

	"He took his vorpal sword in hand;
	Long time the manxome foe he sought - 
	So rested he by the Tumtum tree,
	And stood awhile in thought.

    ..
Blanc




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jan 
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 15:07:49 -0700 (PDT)
To: Nissa Marion 
Message-ID: <3589906A.BA926D9@kki.net.pl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Greetings,

I tried EFNet and there was noone there. That's the reason why I was
so frustrated... I'll try a few more time and tell relate what
happened.
Jan out.

Nissa Marion wrote:
> 
> At 01:16 PM 6/18/98 +0200, you wrote:
> >Greetings,
> >
> >I go to #cypherpunks and it says that I create the room. Where the
> >heck is the room?
> >
> >Jan
> >
> 
> Are you using EFnet? Because that is what was suggested to you, and I just
> tried it and it was indeed there... There were only two people (maybe bots)
> there, but it did certainly exist.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jan 
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 15:15:23 -0700 (PDT)
To: Nissa Marion 
Message-ID: <35899234.D45BFABA@kki.net.pl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Nissa Marion wrote:
> 
> >But if you want to send
> >the whole image, and make that little piece invisible to everyone else
> >but the sender... this is what I'm getting at.
> 
> Man.. that would make it pretty useless to the receiver, now, wouldn't it?

Greetings,

The thing is, the receiver can decode it because he knows his
passphrase so only he will see the image and noone else. It's like
like PGP only with pictures, not plaintext. But if you guys think the
idea is stupid, I'll scrach it.
Jan out.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: hippyman 
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 11:47:30 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks 
Subject: Re: TheCodex's D.I.R.T. surveillance software
Message-ID: <199806181847.NAA29802@client.alltel.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 07:50 AM 6/18/98 , you wrote:
>I have come across a webpage at
>
>http://www.thecodex.com/dirt.html
>
>that describes a so-called D.I.R.T. (Data Interception by Remote
>Transmission) software enabling the attacker (be it a criminal or
>police or govt.) to remotely keep a close eye on everything that't
>going on on the target PC. I can pretty much imagine how it works once
>it's installed but what I'd like to know is *how* it gets installed on
>the target computer?
>I would also appreciate any info about the product from people with
>first hand experience, since I intend to do an in-depth research for
>one of the European Governments.

Why don't you contact the owner and ask him how it works?  Posting to
cypherpunks and asking questions about it seems a bit unusual.  Smells like
a spam.  

You're name wouldn't be Spyking, would it? 

hippyman 
ICQ: 11517383
PGP Fingerprint: E3C3 35C8 0FD9 6F36 2ADD 0541 B58C F6BD D347 BD0A
Public Key: http://keys.pgp.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xD347BD0A




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: owner-cypherpunks
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 02:12:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Never Recieve Junk Mail Again!
Message-ID: <199806190911.CAA17416@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


    Wouldn't it be great to never get junk e-mail again? Well, No one can make you that promise 
unfortunetly....but you can Profit from junk e-mail.There's an old saying "If you can't beat 
em..join em!" You can make incredible money sending your own mass e-mails. If you own 
your own business or have a product or idea to sell , then you probably know that all 
advertising works..it's just a question of whether it's cost effective or not. What could be more 
cost effective that a ZERO cost of adverising? If you sent out 500,000 e-mails which would 
take you only a few minutes to set your computer up to do,and you only recieved one half of 
one percent responce..that would be 2500 people responding to your ad. And the cost to do it 
was NOTHING. Junk e-mail is here to stay, the U.S Congress in their infinite wisdom has 
recently passed legislation legitimizing mass e-mail. So wouldn't it be nice to laugh every time 
you recieve a piece of junk e-mail from someone because you'll know for every one you 
recieve ,you're sending out hundreds of  thousands. If your computer is sitting idle while you're 
at work or play...your crazy! You could be earning money while your asleep,at work or out 
having fun. It's not like you have to sit there and watch it run!
     So why isn't every one doing it. Well, your local internet service provider spent lots of money 
installing filtering equiptment to keep out this so called junk e-mail and in fact for years there's 
been sort of a fun little war going on between the junk e-mail software writers and the internet 
serrvice provider filter software writers to see who could out smart who.The end result is that 
sending mass e-mails legally has become an art . But it's really all about knowing the secrets 
and having the right software.
      AVATAR Publishing is offering you the type of expertise and support that would take you 
years to learn.We know all the secrets (obviously or you wouldn't be reading this would you?) 
and we have the software to deliver to most of the internet service providers. So her's the 
offer... AVATAR is offering you a mass e-mail starter kit complete with step by step instructions 
on how to get sarted sending out mass e-mail...a current explanation of what's legal and not 
legal...how to extract e-mail addresses from the internet ...how to get targeted e-mail 
addresses...a FREE trial version of the most effective mass e-mail software program ever 
developed...a list of bulk e-mail friendly internet service providers....a complete explaination of 
the secrets of how to legally get your mail through the filtering and why it works....and finally a 
real telephone number so you can have technical support and keep updated on new 
developments in the mass e-mail community.The total cost of this kit is only  $29 
    If you would like to stop having you computer sit idle while your at work or asleep and start 
having it make money for you  .....   Send $29  to AVATAR Publishing
                                                                                  832 Colorado Blvd.
                                                                                  Los Angeles,Ca 90041 

If you would like to be removed from our e-mail list ,send a written request to the above 
address






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: thall322@mci2000.com
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 03:22:41 -0700 (PDT)
To: gtds42ncd71@generalnet.com
Subject: Earn $100 every time OUR phone rings...
Message-ID: <199806191022.EAA00619@crotalus.gates.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



ALL YOU DO IS ADVERTISE THIS 800 NUMBER! THAT'S ALL!! 

$100 goes to you for EVERY sale that the company closes!

Does the idea of making at least $1,000 per week beginning your 2nd week of 
doing business excite you? 

How about never having to sell a thing to your customer and never having 
to talk to ANYONE to make money? I don't know how this could get any easier.

EVERY aspect of selling or talking to someone is DONE COMPLETELY by the company!  

The number one home based business for the 2nd year in a row, Fortune 5000 
is a member of the Better Business Bureau and the U.S. Chamber of Commerce.

WHAT THIS BUSINESS WILL DO FOR YOU:

* Handles all your calls, closes your sales, and 
  sends you WEEKLY commission checks! 

* It pays you a $100 commission (that's over 50% of the total sale)
  for EVERY sale. CHECKS put $$$ in your pocket in less than your first 
  week or two... Quick commission earnings build and maintain motivation. 
  ALL YOU DO IS ADVERTISE the toll-free number and your ID number. 

* You can get STARTED TODAY. Just advertise the business toll-free 
  number with your ID # and let this business CLOSE YOUR SALES every day...
  They do all the work and YOU GET PAID FOR IT! 

* You may advertise any way you choose: Bulk E-Mail, Flyers, Classifieds, 
  Postcards, etc. Suppose you use bulk E-Mail, as I am: 100,000 E-Mails
  with a 1/10th of a percent (0.1%) sales rate at $100 per sale nets 
  $10,000... not too bad.

There is nothing else out there that will provide you with an immediate income 
beginning THIS WEEK with minimal effort.

Before you call, I want you to think about the quality of the live 
operators handling your call. I am convinced you will not find 
a better team of closers for your own personal sales.  You will 
clearly understand what I am talking about once you call.  

PLEASE DON'T LET THIS PASS YOU BY. MAKE THE CALL!!

1-800-811-2141

You will be asked for ID #50030 when you call.

(Live operators are available from 8 AM-10 PM CST Monday through Saturday and 
will be able to answer any questions you may have.)

Call one of the 24hr TESTIMONIAL lines at 888-703-5389, 888-446-6949, 888-446-6951
or 888-731-3457 (all toll free). 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: CTIA Daily News 
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 16:24:52 -0700 (PDT)
To: CTIA Daily News 
Subject: CTIA Daily News From WOW-COM - June 19, 1998
Message-ID: <199806191700.MAA22741@mailstrom.revnet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



================================
Welcome to the second day of the CTIA
Daily News From WOW-COM.  Please click
on the icon for the most important news in
wireless communications today.
================================


From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 13:05:27 -0700 (PDT)
To: jy@jya.com
Subject: US attorney MOTION TO REMAND
Message-ID: <358AC3B0.7357@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Friday 6/19/98 1:42 PM

John Young

Morales and I met for lunch.

I just finished documents referencing the two Tenth circuit
docket sheets you posted on our cases.

http://jya.com/whp-10usca.htm
http://www.jya.com/arm061298.htm

Zeitgeist again.  We are moving to the Tenth circuit AGAIN.

http://www.jya.com/whp061098.htm
http://www.jya.com/whp060998.htm

Morales is going to come over review, then we will send you AND
ABOUT EVERY Member of Congress A COPY.

Mitchell's attempt for the in camera ex parte meeting with the court
may have failed.  Thanks to you and Orlin.  And, consequently, some
upset Members of Congress.

http://www.jya.com/whp052898.htm

I, of course, DENY I called judge Santiago Campos a FASCIST PIG.
Try searching for PIG.

That is likely the reason Mitchell phoned this morning to say she going
to file to remand the first FOIA [algorithms] request to NSA.

Later
bill






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bozhidar V Bozhinov 
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 05:08:44 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: e-cash
Message-ID: <358A544E.A0DCE57A@uni-svishtov.bg>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Dear Sirs,

This is Mr. Bozhinov from the D. Tsenov Academy of Economics writing.
I am at the present time a Ph. D. student at the Department of Finance
in the framework of The Academy.
Through Internet saw in the Web site that you are work in the aria of
e-money.
Unfortunately, at the moment in Bulgaria there are a few academitions,
when are working in this problem. That's why I would like to ask you for
more information about this problem.
I'd be very grateful if you might recommend me or send me some materials
concerning this question.
Look forward hearing from you soon.

Yours faithfully,

Mr. B. Bozhinov, Ph. D. Student
D. Tsenov Academy of Economics



begin:          vcard
fn:             Bozhidar Bozhinov
n:              Bozhinov;Bozhidar
org:            Tsenov Academy of Economics
adr:            2 Em. Chakarov Str;;51 Cherni Vrah Str.;Svishtov;Lovech;5250;Bulgaria
email;internet: boshko@uni-svishtov.bg
title:          PhD Student
tel;work:       +359-631-22721-250
x-mozilla-cpt:  ;0
x-mozilla-html: FALSE
version:        2.1
end:            vcard




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Judd Howie" 
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 05:58:22 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: IRC #cypherpunks
Message-ID: <025001bd9b83$2cd4b340$e8cf15a5@irix>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


A cypherpunks channel has also been set up on the Austnet IRC network

irc.austnet.org and then /map for your closest server

/join #cypherpunks

that's where we are in the southern hemisphere anyway


GBH
  





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Support
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 14:24:32 -0700 (PDT)
To: jyu-ohjelmointi-cypherpunks@uunet.uu.net
Subject: Invitation FreshSite.com
Message-ID: <358ad70a.0@news.provide.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


New Invitation

FreshSite is a free service that offers the latest news on top rated Internet
downloadable shareware, freeware and evaluation software. Allowing you
to be the first ones to download and test drive fresh made software and
the latest updates!

Check it out at:  






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 104367.2728e@compuserve.com
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 1998 14:52:49 -0700 (PDT)
To: mc05@mailexcite.com
Subject: INVESTMENT FRAUD:  Learn how to detect and avoid!
Message-ID: <199806200754.AAA28433@fw.uswnvg.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Did you know that YOU could be one of MILLIONS of people who are victims
of investment fraud each year??  

Did you know that SCAM ARTISTS have defrauded people JUST LIKE YOU for
more than $10 BILLION This Year?? 

CLICK HERE ----> http://www.FraudReview-IESC.com <---- TO KEEP YOUR MONEY

If you are absolutely certain it could never be you, the fraudster starts
with a big advantage.  Investment fraud generally happens to people who
think it could never happen to them.  Learn how to avoid investment fraud,
visit http://www.FraudReview-IESC.com

BEFORE YOU INVEST - LEARN THE FACTS

Investment Evaluative Services Corporation has compiled a desktop reference
entitled "Inside the World of Investment Fraud, Scams and Deceptive
Practices".  

It is easy to read, concise and contains the investment phrases, terms, and
conditions that an investor should KNOW and AVOID!  It also contains
citations that will inform the investor of not only what investments should
be avoided, but why.  (Learn more at http://www.FraudReview-IESC.com)
 
If terms like Asset Managed Programs, Bank Debentures, High Yield/Low Risk,
Leveraged Funds, and Top 25 Banks are in your investment portfolio, you may
already be a victim of investment fraud!

If terms like Bank Guarantees of 106%, Blocked Funds Letter,  Safe Keeping
Receipt, and Trading Programs are not familiar to you, you may shortly
become a victim of investment fraud!

To learn more about Investment Evaluative Services Corporation products and
services, please continue on to our home page
http://www.FraudReview-IESC.com 
or call our toll free number  1(888)596-0956.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Global Web Builders 
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 16:54:58 -0700 (PDT)
To: (Recipient list suppressed)
Subject: Pauline Hanson's One Nation newsletter - June 1998 update
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980619234519.0070b2d0@mail.pronet.net.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Issue 2.1, June 1998

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
PLEASE NOTE: No unsolicited email is sent. If you do not want to be on the
mailing list please say "REMOVE" in the subject line and return this message
in the body.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

G'day One Nation supporters in NSW

New quick access to One Nation home page NOW live!!!

http://www.onenation.com.au

----------------------------

Queensland State Election:
=========================
This is our first communication since last week's Queensland State Election.

See archive of live coverage: http://www.gwb.com.au/onenation/qldstate/june13

One Nation has secured an amazing 11 seats (out of 89) with 23% of the
primary vote. (Compare this to the Nationals 23 seats on just 15% of the
primary vote!)

See: http://www.ecq.qld.gov.au/ecq/98summary.html

In the latest news it now appears likely that One Nation will support the
Coalition to ensure a stable government in Queensland - although this is not
yet finalised and the support of two independents, Liz Cunningham and Peter
Wellington still have to be secured.

------------------------------------

Unofficial One Nation daily newspaper:
=====================================

The anotd (Australian National News of the Day) - Australia's oldest on-line
saily newspaper provides reader feedback and information on Pauline Hanson
and One Nation.

The paper at:

http://www.gwb.com.au/gwb/news/daily.html

has an archive for subscribers going back to October 1995.

Negotiations are currently underway to make this paper available by "fax
back" - initially on a weekly basis. This will allow anyone with a fax to
get a weekly summary of issues being discussed faxed to them.

------------------------------------

Web Ring:
========

The One Nation web site now has a web ring listing about 20 One Nation
sites. If you wish to add a One Nation site please use the "add a web site"
link. 

All additions to the web ring are moderated and GWB's decision on whether or
not to link you is final. You are of course welcome to just carry the web
ring banner and links at:

http://www.gwb.com.au/onenation/ring1.html

Thanks to Peter for his help on this.

A number of historic One Nation web sites including the April 1997 launch in
Ipswich and Hanson's speeches are currently available from the web ring.

-------------------------------------

The power of email:
==================

I have been informed by the ABC Radio National's "Background Briefing" that
they will be talking about the power of email tomorrow (Sunday at 9.10am).

Apparently the action taken by many One Nation supporters in expressing
their concern to 60 Minutes sponsor, Toyota, about the programmes behaviour
towards Pauline Hanson and One Nation was very effective and will be raised
during the ABC report.

To all those who participated thank you. I trust you all got the standard
Toyota response broadcast in the middle of last week.

I am aware that the support shown has served its purpose for the time being
and I hope that 60 Minutes shows more balance in future or we will be
obliged to call on your support again.

See: http://www.gwb.com.au/60.html

for background on the 60 Minutes segment "A CALL TO ARMS".

----------------------------------

Federal Election:
================

One Nation's Federal Election web site is currently under development.

See: http://www.gwb.com.au/onenation/federal

----------------------------------

GWB



Scott Balson





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: hippyman 
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 21:16:26 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks 
Subject: Re: TheCodex's D.I.R.T. surveillance software
Message-ID: <199806200416.XAA17936@client.alltel.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 09:29 PM 6/19/98 , you wrote:

>>>I have come across a webpage at
>>>
>>>http://www.thecodex.com/dirt.html
etc...
>>Why don't you contact the owner and ask him how it works?  Posting to
>>cypherpunks and asking questions about it seems a bit unusual.  Smells like
>>a spam.  
>>
>>You're name wouldn't be Spyking, would it? 
etc...

>Mine is and I didn't post it... I got the same request privately... from
>this person... I am not trying to sell it ... especially to a European
>government...

My wrong, then. 

I enjoy your list and didn't really think you spam another mailing list in
such a fashion as I was interpreting, but I thought I'd sniff it out anyway.

My apologies for the accusation. 

hippyman 
ICQ: 11517383
PGP Fingerprint: E3C3 35C8 0FD9 6F36 2ADD 0541 B58C F6BD D347 BD0A
Public Key: http://keys.pgp.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xD347BD0A




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC 
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 1998 12:10:55 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <009C7FCD.1E9A1520.1@west.cscwc.pima.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


RIP - SPACE ALIENS HIDE M DRUGS!!!
___________________________________


  The ReptiliansInBlack and the MenInTheShadows were arguing
vehemently over the best path to take in order to maintain
effective damage control over the increasingly wide-spread
danger posed by the known and unknown actions of the Author. 
Regardless, in the end, they all had to answer to Gomez...

  In the days preceeding the Terry Nichols verdict, they had
managed to divert the Author's attention by murdering his 
aunt in Nevada, Missouri, forcing him to abandon Denver in
the middle of the night to drive to her funeral.
  They had managed to find and destroy the TRIN VirtualNuclear
Diskette Bombs the Author had left at various federal government
buildings in the previous few days, but their agent in Cape
Girardo indicated that the Author also claimed to have planted
the TRIN VNDB's among members of the Nichols jury. Was this
another one of the Author's disinformation tactics, or was
their own double agent at Bureau42 actually a triple agent,
helping to obscure the Author's trail of FUD after his having
lost the Watchers in both Denver and Nevada?
  When the RIP's and the MIS's were notified by Captain Button's
former superiors that the Author had been discovered roaming his
old haunts in Tucson, the BlackBaggers who inventoried his truck
found postcards purchased in Branson, Oklahoma City and Waco. Not
a good sign...


  When the Author posted the 'SweatHog Log' of the SAHMD
manuscripts from Linda Lou Reeds Pima College account, it
was taken as a sign that HeOrShe was once again ready to
jump to another location, and was again challenging the
Watchers to track him. After he led them directly to his
current SafeHouse in Tucson, however, it became clear that
he was once again taunting them by revealing another clue
in the ongoing battle to discover the true extent and/or
existence of the alleged underground computer society known
as the Circle of Eunuchs.
  It wasn't until they met in Tucson with the US Air Force
intelligence officer from Bienfait that the ReptiliansInBlack
and the MenInTheShadows realized the horrendous implications
of the 'clue' that the Author was rubbing their noses in...

  "Bob and Polly McWilliams, sons named Trevor and Rory."
the Flying Spook told those gathered around the conference
table at the back of the Blue Saguaro. "They're friends of
Mark, the owner." he said, causing great consternation among
the various spooks participating in the dinner and drinks
TruthMonger Rap Session taking place--apparently in the
heart of enemy territory.
  As if on cue, the owner approached their table, to inquire
as to the suitability of the food, drinks and service.Y\j
owner, nonchalantly, adding, "I haven't seen you since the
Club Car...are you bugging our conversation?"

  The owner of the Blue Saguaro laughed and winked slyly,
replying, "Not tonight. There's no band, so it's the sound
man's night off..."
  The assorted crew of Casper's Cousins, as they liked to
think of themselves, each began replaying in his or her own
mind the contents of their preceeding conversations, much to
the amusement of Mark and his old pal, the Flying Spook.
  "Tomorrow's edition..." the Flying Spook told his compatriots,
handing each of them a computer printout of the Bienfait Nutly
News. "I'm the new editor-in-chief." He turned and walked away
with the owner, talking over old times...






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC 
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 1998 12:11:59 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Reptilians In Black - SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS!!!
Message-ID: <009C7FCD.50DF5860.3@west.cscwc.pima.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


RIP - SPACE ALIENS HIDE M DRUGS!!!
___________________________________


  The ReptiliansInBlack and the MenInTheShadows were arguing
vehemently over the best path to take in order to maintain
effective damage control over the increasingly wide-spread
danger posed by the known and unknown actions of the Author. 
Regardless, in the end, they all had to answer to Gomez...

  In the days preceeding the Terry Nichols verdict, they had
managed to divert the Author's attention by murdering his 
aunt in Nevada, Missouri, forcing him to abandon Denver in
the middle of the night to drive to her funeral.
  They had managed to find and destroy the TRIN VirtualNuclear
Diskette Bombs the Author had left at various federal government
buildings in the previous few days, but their agent in Cape
Girardo indicated that the Author also claimed to have planted
the TRIN VNDB's among members of the Nichols jury. Was this
another one of the Author's disinformation tactics, or was
their own double agent at Bureau42 actually a triple agent,
helping to obscure the Author's trail of FUD after his having
lost the Watchers in both Denver and Nevada?
  When the RIP's and the MIS's were notified by Captain Button's
former superiors that the Author had been discovered roaming his
old haunts in Tucson, the BlackBaggers who inventoried his truck
found postcards purchased in Branson, Oklahoma City and Waco. Not
a good sign...


  When the Author posted the 'SweatHog Log' of the SAHMD
manuscripts from Linda Lou Reeds Pima College account, it
was taken as a sign that HeOrShe was once again ready to
jump to another location, and was again challenging the
Watchers to track him. After he led them directly to his
current SafeHouse in Tucson, however, it became clear that
he was once again taunting them by revealing another clue
in the ongoing battle to discover the true extent and/or
existence of the alleged underground computer society known
as the Circle of Eunuchs.
  It wasn't until they met in Tucson with the US Air Force
intelligence officer from Bienfait that the ReptiliansInBlack
and the MenInTheShadows realized the horrendous implications
of the 'clue' that the Author was rubbing their noses in...

  "Bob and Polly McWilliams, sons named Trevor and Rory."
the Flying Spook told those gathered around the conference
table at the back of the Blue Saguaro. "They're friends of
Mark, the owner." he said, causing great consternation among
the various spooks participating in the dinner and drinks
TruthMonger Rap Session taking place--apparently in the
heart of enemy territory.
  As if on cue, the owner approached their table, to inquire
as to the suitability of the food, drinks and service.Y\j
owner, nonchalantly, adding, "I haven't seen you since the
Club Car...are you bugging our conversation?"

  The owner of the Blue Saguaro laughed and winked slyly,
replying, "Not tonight. There's no band, so it's the sound
man's night off..."
  The assorted crew of Casper's Cousins, as they liked to
think of themselves, each began replaying in his or her own
mind the contents of their preceeding conversations, much to
the amusement of Mark and his old pal, the Flying Spook.
  "Tomorrow's edition..." the Flying Spook told his compatriots,
handing each of them a computer printout of the Bienfait Nutly
News. "I'm the new editor-in-chief." He turned and walked away
with the owner, talking over old times...






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC 
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 1998 12:12:53 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Bienfait Reptilian News - SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS!!!
Message-ID: <009C7FCD.710F1760.7@west.cscwc.pima.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


RIP/BNN - SPACE ALIENS HIDE M DRUGS!!!
_______________________________________

Bienfait Nutly News--Desert Storm / Texas Tornado Special:
[BNN-Tucson, Arizona--THE 'FOUR CORNERS' SEARCH FOR A PAIR OF
Certified CopKillers took a bizarre twist today, when it was
learned that the Author of SPACE ALIENS HIDE M DRUGS was
apparently serving merely as a diversionary decoy for LEA's
involved in the search, while an unknown compatriot was busy
either providing clandestine supply support for the pair, or
perhaps even arranging transportation for the suspects to a
safehouse located outside of the search area.
  Under cross-examination by a variety of LEA/Spooks, the 
RCMP involved in setting up the Author on a variety of charges
under the Criminal Code Of Canada admitted that they had been
holding back evidence suggesting that the Author was not acting
alone in his TRIN VirtualNuclear Diskette Bomb Soft Target
World Tour. Newspapers dated after the Author's flight to
semi-safety south of the forty-ninth parallel were found at
the scene of the first VirtualNuclear Device discovered by
the Royal Canadian Mounted Police at the Court House eleven
KILLometers from MongerItaVille, home of the Bienfait Nutly
News, where the Author was scheduled to be railroaded into
serving a four-year sentence for 'Failure To Appear' on the
'Dog At Large' charges trumped up by local Bienfait officials
under RCMP direction.

  "There were two different sets of newspapers dated after
the Author's flight from Canada found at the scene of the
First VirtualNuclear Device." an RCMP official foolishly
revealed to the Flying Spook assigned by the US Air Force
to investigate the Author, never considering that the agent
may have been 'turned' by the Circle of Eunuchs into a
secret ally. "We traced the placement of one of the sets
of newspapers to the Author's nephew, Human Gus-Peter, who
had been promised a new state-of-the-art computer in return
for helping to obstrufucate the details behind the placement
of the TRIN VNDB Device. The second set of newpapers, from
an earlier date, were obviously placed by an unknown entity,
working in collusion with the Author from the beginning."

  The Flying Spook, in his first action as the new editor-
in-chief of the Bienfait Nutly News, informed the RCMP that
the Author, after mailing evidence of RCMP illegal activity,
collusion and conspiracy to a Time/Netly News reportwhore
from Sidney, Montana, had holed up at the Way Station in
Gillette, Montana, for a few days, proceeding south only
after meeting with a shadowy figure who had given one of
the local residents of the homeless shelter a handful of
Canadian coins when asked for spare change.
  The Flying Spook also suggested that the Author's travel
schedule, seemingly laying an interrupted trail through
the HeartLand of paramilitary activity on the way to theYT
targets along the way, was actually a diversionary tactic
designed to divert attention from the movements of his
conspiratorial compatriot--rumored to be a long-time active
member of the Circle of Eunuchs and CyphperPunks Disturbed
Male LISP, as well as a recent inductee into the Army of
Dog.

  The new Editor-In-Chief of the Bienfait Nutly News also
revealed that his investigation into the alleged connection
of the NuclearBomberAdulteress in Minot, North Dakota, and
the ButtonBomberJoyRider from Tucson, Arizona, to the
Circle of Eunuchs and Army of Dog had turned up a variety
of startling facts, despite the Flying Spook's failure to
include those facts in his official report.
  Among those facts are the following:


EveryBody Wants To Go To Soviet Heaven, But No One Wants To Spy:

  It took the Flying Spook only a few weeks to verify hard links
between the Author and a variety of single, double and triple
agents ranging from Scotland to the Middle East--from the 1800's
to the 1990's.
  The Author's background had been invesigated previously, to
little avail, and the Flying Spook was mystified as to how
apparently competent investigators could fail to realize that
the key to covert and subversive links very often lie in the
history of the women 'behind the throne', so to speak.
  Elanor Roosevelt, Lady Byrd Johnson, Nancy Reagan...even
Casper's Cousins unfamiliar with the course of history should
be able to see the implication implied by these recent examples
of the Hidden Hands Of Destiny working through the wives of
those serving as the front men for the true movers and shakers
in society.

  The Zippo lighter bearing the crest of the Naval Guided
Missle School carried by the Author had long been dismissed
as an insignificant detail by a long string of investigators
who crossed paths with HimOrHer at various times and places.
  It was the family history of Polly McWilliams that allowed
the Flying Spook to bring together a wide range of seemingly
individual 'coincidences' into a logical, coherent pattern.

  Clifden Albert Banner:
  Polly McWilliam's brother. A former B-52 bomber pilot with
connections to both the NuclearBomberAdulteress and the
ButtonBomberJoyRider provided the Flying Spook with his first
hard connection between the Author and Armed Forces personnel
suspected of having Circle of Eunuchs connections.
  Major Banner's military history working at top levels of
the Strategic Air Command, as well as with the Joint Chiefs
of Staff at the Pentagon provided the Flying Spook with an
immediate RedFlag that suggested even the remotest connectionYT
what would be found upon further investigation.
  It therefore came as no surprise to find that, after having
put in place a wide variety of possible co-conspirators within
the Armed Forces network, Major Banner retired to become a
Senior Engineering Specialist-Mission Planning System, in the
New England Operations Field Office of GDE Systems, a major
military contractor.
  Neither was it a surprise that Major Banner's specialty
was...computers.


  Jane Banner:

  Polly McWilliam's sister. Heavily involved as a programmer,
for Nortel, with highly sensitive work in an area of the
joint US/Chinese encryption program that was suspected to
have strong covert connections to the CypherPunks and the
Circle of Eunuchs.


  Earl David Banner:
  Polly McWilliam's father. A Boston Globe Journalist who 
had been privy to the most secret of secrets in a comprehensive
array of social circles ranging from the Roosevelts and the
Kennedys to Cardinal Cushing and the Lords of Lourdes.
  Earl Banner's Anglican heritage was in seeming contrast to
his Catholic connections until the Flying Spook discovered
the close connection between the Author's Catholic lineage
through the French Norris clan on his mother's side and the
Catholic lineage of the McWilliams clan to which Polly's
husband, Bob, was a vital link.


  Moyra Banner:
  Polly's McWilliam's mother. Grew up in Montreal and met
her future husband through  sources closely connected to
the Bartonian Metaphysical Society and what was later to
become the Solar Temple Cult--both of which were organizations
with close connections to the Author and David Humisky, a
shadowy figure who had stunned the Canadian Military by
engineering a quick end to a student military-game project
designed to provide information and data on the capability
of military neophytes engaging in spontaneous war games.


  Alan McKenzie:
  Polly McWilliams' great-grandfather. Driven with his family
from the Isle of Lewis, in Scotland, by the Laird, as a result
of his subversive political connections to a Welsh mining rebel
named Bennett, whose grandson, Leslie James Bennett, would rise
out of one of the 'Little Moscows' in South Wales, serving as
a bastion of the British Labour Party, to become the Chief of
the Russian Desk for the RCMP's Security Service, before beingYT
with connections to fellow Red Caspers McClean and Kim Philby.


  Terry Dee:
  A long-time friend and confidante of Bob and Polly 
McWilliams, as well as a shadowy presence in the life of
the Author's decade-long lover in Austin and Tuscon.
  The Flying Spook had originally researched his connection
to the Author as a result of Dee's work for various American
spook agencies during his travels in the Middle East, and
was stunned to discover the close links between Dee's
ancestors--the O'Days--and the Author's great-grandfather,
Clarence Day, whose progeny in Mountain Home, Idaho, once
again completed the Circle between the Author and Major Clif
Banner, as well as filling in the Author's connection to
the Naval Guided Missle School and a wide variety of
suspected Circle of Eunuchs initiates employed at sensitive
military and secret government laboratory sites around
the world.


  Merna Brown:
  The Author's first wife. A member of the Bartonian Metaphysical
Society, and whose father had proved to be a vital link in the
connection between the socialist New Democratic Party of Tommy
Douglas and the suspected Russian agent, James Leslie Bennett.
  Merna Brown had eventually turned up in Ontario in a government
position ideally suited for providing financial and personal
history support for a number of individuals drifting back and
forth between the Solar Temple, Elohim City, Waco and San Diego,
changing identities as they went.


  Dave Foreman:
  The Flying Spook found it interesting that the Author had
appeared to have absolutely no contact with Dave Foreman or
any of the Earth First subversives in Arizona during HisOrHer
time there, yet seemed to be involved in advising and training
a wide variety of those connected to Earth First in various
areas of the country, particularly in Northern California.
  Hidden deep within the mountains of files kept on those who
marched in protests at the LizardMore Lavoratory was a note
which attributed authorship of a song, "We're Going To Take
It Sitting Down," a banner tune for a Berkeley radical group
named La Palomas, to one C.J. Parker, who was also known to
have authored "Don't Blame Me, I Voted For The Monkey."


  Black Elk:
  Equally intriguing was the Author's close connection to a
wide variety of Rainbow Family members thoughout the US and
Canada. While the Author seemingly remained unaware of his
connection to the group, many of the Rainbow Family were notYT
enormous amount of covert support during his wide travels.
  ears of investigation failed to discover the link until
the Flying Spook engaged the Author in WarStories (TM) at
the CoalDust Saloon in Bienfait, and heard a tale about 
HimOrHer joining an oddball van full of misfits including
hippies, college athletes and a Catholic priest, on a trip
to a mountain top in Colorado to await the fulfillment of
the vision written of in "Black Elk Speaks."
  HeOrShe told of the Catholic priest smuggling an ounce of
hashish across the border, shoved up his butt, screwing the
Catholic girls on the trip, and then absolving them, and 
carrying a mountain of liquor up the mountain on his back,
a Herculean task which made him a legend among those at
the gathering who considered a spiritual journey to be
incomplete without a jigger of earthly spirits to ease
their passage.
  The Author told of rising in the middle of the night to
relieve himself of excess spirits and falling into one of
the slit-trench crappers that had been dug for the occassion,
swearing like a trooper as he climbed out, only to fall into
another, and yet another, with the whole gathering laughing
riotously in the dark at the Fool In The Stool, as he called
himself. He had little idea that not only did the whole
gathering know who he was the next day (even though he 
pretended ignorance of the whole affair), but that the story
of his folly had become one of the legends told by the
original members of the Rainbow Family which was born at
the gathering.


  Ken Sleight:
  Government efforts to investigate an alleged underground
railroad for a variety of outlaws, desperados and radicals,
including a trail of SafeHouses and HideOuts throughout
the western US, invariably led to one or another of passages
in and out of the Four Corners area.
  The Author and Utah outfitter Ken Slight were often found
to be operating in close proximity without ever seeming to
have confirmable direct contact. Interestingly, they both
seemed to have contact with a large number of the same
people involved in environmental and survivalist arenas,
including Bob Mason, of Durango, although under an assumed
name.


  XS4ALL:
  InterNet Free Terra both hosted the banned website during
their censorship troubles with the the German government, and
helped a variety of other sites set up mirror sites around the
same time. One of the causes of XS4ALL's troubles was the
publication of how-to tips on derailing trains.
  Although it was confirmed that the Author's travel schedule
coincided with a number of railway 'accidents', including theYT
in the vicinity of Saskatoon, no positive links to HisOrHer
involvement could be established. The Flying Spook's recent
investigation, however, turned up the fact that a variety of
those hosting mirrors of the XS4ALL website had travel 
schedules which coincided with that of the Author at the
times of several railway 'accidents', although, once again,
no positive link between the individuals could be established.



Synchronincidence:
  Time is a trick to keep suspicious minds from positively
connecting Taoist subversive criminal radicals to the events
for which they are obviously responsible.
  Space is a trick to keep Taoist subversive criminal radical
coconspirators from being positively linked together when it
is in the best interests of the government to claim that they
are acting alone.
  Paranoia is a trick to keep non-Taoist subversive criminal
radicals from realizing that most LEAs are real Lamers (TM),
and that the only thing one needs to be paranoid of is paranoia,
itself (it's a vicious cycle...).
  Guilt is a trick to keep psychotic sociopath subversive
criminal radicals from killing everyone at once, so that there
is still someone left to plot against them.


DISCLAIMER!!!
_____________

  The Bienfait Nutly News makes no pretensions of operating
as an ethical and responsible news source for individuals
whose cerebral synapse circuits remain unaffected by moon
phases and solar sunspot activity.
  We accept no responsibility for explaining how the 
translation of Reptilians In Black into an RIP acronym
can go unnoticed by the editor until the end of the piece,
or how a well-researched article can somehow seem to peter
out into a meaningless morass of inconsequential facts and
details.
  Hell, we don't even know what the right-square bracket
is *really* called...]




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 1998 13:44:02 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: The End of Secrecy
Message-ID: <199806202043.QAA00585@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


From: "The End of Secrecy," by Ann Florini, Foreign Policy, 
Summer, 1998:

   http://jya.com/teos.htm  (39K)

IMF managing director Michel Camdessus has explained, openness 
and transparency are now economic issues, not solely political 
ones:

  As more and more evidence has come to light about the 
  adverse consequences of governance problems on economic 
  performance--among them, losses in government revenue, 
  lower quality public investment and public services, 
  reduced private investment, and the loss of public 
  confidence in government--a broader consensus has 
  emerged on the central importance of transparency and 
  good governance in achieving economic success.

Most officials in Asia seem to have accepted the virtues 
of transparency, at least in the economic field. Singaporean 
senior minister Lee Kuan Yew, stressing the importance of 
transparency in a country's financial system, recently told 
Vietnamese prime minister Phan Van Khai: "In an age of 
information technology, instant communications and computers, 
if you try to hide, you are in trouble." 

[And:]
               The Entomopter Cometh

One of the most unusual MIT designs on the drawing board is a 
four-inch-long, insect-like craft dubbed "the entomopter," 
equipped with legs for crawling through buildings or ventilation 
ducts, and flapping wings for airborne reconnaissance.

Nevertheless, no matter how small, efficient, or cost-effective 
surveillance hardware becomes, there will always be limits to 
what technology can accomplish. Indeed, it is a double-edged 
sword--witness the polemics in Washington and on the Web over 
who, if anyone, should regulate electronic encryption. From 
untappable communications to pixel-by-pixel photo and video 
editing, technology is often as good at hiding secrets as it 
is at revealing them. Without a norm of transparency, technology 
will continue to protect private information as well as ferret 
it out.

-----







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Julian Assange 
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 1998 11:40:35 -0700 (PDT)
To: ukcrypto@maillist.ox.ac.uk
Subject: AUcrypto mailinglist
Message-ID: <19980620184014.22630.qmail@iq.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



With things starting to heat up here in Australia (DoD/DSD has
recently taken to making some exceptionally nasty noises about
prosecuting Eric Young, Tim Hudson and the rest of the Australian
CryptoMozilla team). I'd like to remind everyone who's interested in
aussie/nz crypto issues of the aucrypto mailing list.

                    _   _   _  ____ ______   ______ _____ ___
                   / \ | | | |/ ___|  _ \ \ / /  _ \_   _/ _ \
                  / _ \| | | | |   | |_) \ V /| |_) || || | | |
                 / ___ \ |_| | |___|  _ < | | |  __/ | || |_| |
                /_/   \_\___/ \____|_| \_\|_| |_|    |_| \___/

                      Australasian & Pacific Cryptography

               mail the word "subscribe" to aucrypto-request@suburbia.net

                                     or

              mail the word "subscribe" to aucrypto-d-request@suburbia.net
                            (AUCRYPTO weekly digest)


WHEN YOU HAVE SUBSCRIBED
------------------------

    Send in a brief synopsis of who you are and why you are interested
    in AUCRYPTO as your first message to the list (this helps
    to stimulate discussion and debate as well as provide a sense
    of the AUCRYPTO community). As a [small] example:

      "Hello AUCRYPTO! My name is Sara Harding. I'm a technical services
       officer working at the AFP (Australian Federal Police), specialising
       in cryptogrpahic issues."

SUBSCRIBING
-----------

Send mail to:

        aucrypto-request@suburbia.net
or
        aucrypto-d-request@suburbia.net (AUCRYPTO digest)

with the subject or body of:

        subscribe

UN-SUBSCRIBING
-------------

Send mail to:

        aucrypto-request@suburbia.net
or
        aucrypto-d-request@suburbia.net (AUCRYPTO digest)

with the subject or body of:

        unsubscribe aucrypto

POSTING
-------

To send a message to the list, address it to:

        aucrypto@suburbia.net

Messages under 700 bytes in size will not be accepted. Send your
one-liners to nobody@nowhere.org.

REPLYING
--------

If you are replying to a message already on the AUCRYPTO list using
your mail programs reply facility you may have to change the reply
address to aucrypto@suburbia.net. This is because the AUCRYPTO mailing
list program is configured to have return replies sent the author
in order to avoid receiving the replies of misconfigured "vacation"
programs which automatically send email saying "I've gone to the
moon for two weeks to hunt rare bits".

ARCHIVES
--------

Monthly back issues of aucrypto since January 96 are available from:

        ftp://suburbia.net/pub/mailinglists/aucrypto

You can also instruct the mailing list processor to automatically scan and
retrive messages from the archive. It understands the following commands:

        get filename ...
        ls directory ...
        egrep case_insensitive_regular_expression filename ...
        maxfiles nnn
        version

        Aliases for 'get': send, sendme, getme, gimme, retrieve, mail
        Aliases for 'ls': dir, directory, list, show
        Aliases for 'egrep': search, grep, fgrep, find

        Lines starting with a '#' are ignored.
        Multiple commands per mail are allowed.
        Setting maxfiles to zero will remove the limit (to protect you against
        yourself no more than maxfiles files will be returned per request).
        Egrep supports most common flags.

        Examples:
        ls vomume96 (for aucrypto digest)
        ls latest (the latest directory containes the archived messages)
        get latest/12
        egrep some.word latest/*

TECHNICAL
---------

The list processor software is based on the excellent Procmail/Smartlist
by Stephen R. van den Berg  with
some minor extensions by Julian Assange .




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 336688zs@mci.com
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 1998 19:56:24 -0700 (PDT)
To: hello5g@mail99998.com
Subject: Need a Computer??  No Money Down!!
Message-ID: <199806210156.DAA30468@cassiopea.it>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


            
            

...BRAND NEW PENTIUM II...            
            
..COMPUTER..            
            
..NO MONEY DOWN...            
            
...EARN HUGE INCOME....            
only serious inquiries only!            
(for more information & application            
 leave your name, fax & phone #)            
            
    
    

                
More info:                 
put  "COMPUTER" in subject area and            
mailto: fwd617@mycomsoftware.net                                              
                                                   
Click Here                                                    
                






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Company98 
Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 00:01:22 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: $36000 in 14 Weeks
Message-ID: <419.435967.00088171company98@yahoo.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


 Hi
     My name is Jacqueline McCormack and I would like to show you how
easy it is to really make a lot of money. I wouldn't be wasting my time doing this if I didn't know this 
system works,and all the money you invest is less than an evening at the movies for two. Anyone surely 
can afford that.

 I received a letter just like the one your reading now from a lady name Karren Liddel and the rest is 
history. Here is the email I received and judge for yourself if this will work or not. This is truly the one 
path I've found to financial freedom. 
         
             Thanks for your time 
                    Jacque
=================================================================
                                
        I Never Thought I'd Be the One Telling You This:

I Actually Read a Piece of E-Mail & I'm Going to Europe on the
Proceeds!


Hello!

My name is Karen Liddell; I'm a 35-year-old mom, wife, and
part-time accountant.  As a rule, I delete all unsolicited "junk"
e-mail and use my account primarily for business.  I received
what I assumed was this same e-mail countless times and deleted
it each time.

About two months ago I received it again and, because of the
catchy subject line,  I finally read it.  Afterwards, I thought ,
"OK, I give in, I'm going to try this.  I can certainly afford to
invest $20 and, on the other hand, there's nothing wrong with
creating a little excess cash."  I promptly mailed four $5 bills
and, after receiving the reports, paid a friend of mine a small
fee to send out some e-mail advertisements for me.  After reading
the reports, I also learned how easy it is to bulk e-mail for
free! 

I was not prepared for the results.  Everyday for the last six
weeks, my P.O. box has been overflowing with $5 bills; many days
the excess fills up an extra mail bin and I've had to upgrade to
the corporate-size box!  I am stunned by all the money that keeps
rolling in!

My husband and I have been saving for several years to make a
substantial down payment on a house.  Now, not only are we
purchasing a house with 40% down, we're going to Venice, Italy to
celebrate!

I promise you, if you follow the directions in this e-mail and be
prepared to eventually set aside about an hour each day to follow
up (and count your money!), you will make at least as much money
as we did.  You don't need to be a wiz at the computer, but I'll
bet you already are.   If you can open an envelope, remove the
money, and send an e-mail message, then you're on your way to the
bank.  Take the time to read this so you'll understand how easy
it is.  If I can do this, so can you!

                       GO FOR IT NOW!!

                       Karen Liddell

The following is a copy of the e-mail I read:

                                
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

This is a LEGAL, MONEY-MAKING PHENOMENON.
PRINT this letter, read the directions, THEN READ IT AGAIN !!!


You are about to embark on the most profitable and unique program
you may ever see.  Many times over, it has demonstrated and
proven its ability to generate large amounts of cash.  This
program is showing fantastic appeal with a huge and ever-growing
on-line population desirous of additional income.

This is a legitimate, LEGAL, money-making opportunity.  It does
not require you to come in contact with people, do any hard work,
and best of all, you never have to leave the house, except to get
the mail and go to the bank!  

This truly is that lucky break you've been waiting for!  Simply
follow the easy instructions in this letter, and your financial
dreams will come true! When followed correctly, this electronic,
multi-level marketing program works perfectly...100% EVERY TIME! 

Thousands of people have used this program to:
    -  Raise capital to start their own business
    -  Pay off debts
    -  Buy homes, cars, etc., 
    -  Even retire! 

This is your chance, so don't pass it up!


-----------------------------------------------------------------
                       -----------------
OVERVIEW OF THIS EXTRAORDINARY 
ELECTRONIC MULTI-LEVEL MARKETING PROGRAM
-----------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------


Basically, this is what we do:

We send thousands of people a product for $5.00 that costs next
to nothing to produce and e-mail. As with all multi-level
businesses, we build our business by recruiting new partners and
selling our products.  Every state in the U.S. allows you to
recruit new multi- level business online (via your computer).

The products in this program are a series of four business and
financial reports costing $5.00 each.  Each order you receive via
"snail mail" will include:

  * $5.00 cash
  * The name and number of the report they are ordering
  * The e-mail address where you will e-mail them the report they
ordered.

To fill each order, you simply e-mail the product to the buyer. 
THAT'S IT!  The $5.00 is yours!  This is the EASIEST electronic
multi-level marketing business anywhere! 


           FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS TO THE LETTER AND
BE PREPARED TO REAP THE STAGGERING BENEFITS!

******* I  N  S  T  R  U  C  T  I  O  N  S *******


This is what you MUST do:

1. Order all 4 reports shown on the list below (you can't sell
them if you don't order them).
     
     *  For each report, send $5.00 CASH, the NAME & NUMBER OF
THE 
        REPORT YOU ARE ORDERING, YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS, and YOUR
        RETURN POSTAL ADDRESS (in case of a problem) to the
person whose 
        name appears on the list next to the report.
  
     *  When you place your order, make sure you order each of
the four
        reports.  You will need all four reports so that you can
save them
        on your computer and resell them.

     *  Within a few days you will receive, via e-mail, each of
the four reports. 
         Save them on your computer so they will be accessible
for you to send 
         to the 1,000's of people who will order them from you.

2.  IMPORTANT-- DO NOT alter the names of the people who are
listed next 
     to each report, or their sequence on the list, in any way
other than is
     instructed below in steps "a" through "d" or you will lose
out on the
     majority of your profits.  Once you  understand the way this
works, you'll 
     also see how it doesn't work if you change it.  Remember,
this method 
     has been tested, and if you alter it, it will not work.

    a.  Look below for the listing of available reports.

    b.  After you've ordered the four reports, replace the name
and address 
         under REPORT #1 with your name and address, moving the
one that 
         was there down to REPORT #2.  

    c.  Move the name and address that was under REPORT #2 down
to 
         REPORT #3.  

    d.  Move the name and address that was under REPORT #3 down
to 
         REPORT #4.  

    e.  The name and address that was under REPORT #4 is removed
from
         the list and has NO DOUBT collected their 50 grand.


     Please make sure you copy everyone's name and address
                         ACCURATELY!!!


3.  Take this entire letter, including the modified list of
names, and save 
     it to your computer.  Make NO changes to the instruction
portion of this 
     letter.
  
4.  Now you're ready to start an advertising campaign on the
     WORLDWIDE WEB!  Advertising on the WEB is very, very
inexpensive,
     and there are HUNDREDS of FREE places to advertise. Another
     avenue which you could use for advertising is e-mail lists. 

     You can buy these lists for under $20/2,000 addresses or you
     can pay someone a minimal charge to take care of it for you.

     BE SURE TO START YOUR AD CAMPAIGN IMMEDIATELY!

5.  For every $5.00 you receive, all you must do is e-mail them
the report
     they ordered.  THAT'S IT!  ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE 
     ON ALL ORDERS!  This will guarantee that the e-mail THEY
send out,
     with YOUR name and address on it, will be prompt because
they can't
     advertise until they receive the report!


           ------------------------------------------
AVAILABLE REPORTS
------------------------------------------
***Order Each REPORT by NUMBER and NAME***


Notes:
-  ALWAYS SEND $5 CASH FOR EACH REPORT 
-  ALWAYS SEND YOUR ORDER VIA FIRST CLASS  MAIL 
-  Make sure the cash is concealed by wrapping it in at least two
sheets of paper  
-  On one of those sheets of paper, include: (a) the number &
name of the report you are ordering, (b) your e-mail address, and
(c) your postal address.
_________________________________________________________________
REPORT #1 "HOW TO REORGANIZE YOUR TIME TO ACCOMMODATE A HOME
BASED BUSINESS" 

ORDER REPORT #1 FROM:  
            COMPANY98
            3941 E. CHANDLER BLVD
            SUITE 106-142
            PHOENIX, AZ 85044
_________________________________________________________________
REPORT #2 "MAJOR CORPORATIONS AND E-MAIL"

ORDER REPORT #2 FROM:
            ACY
            3800 DEWEY AVE #298
            ROCHESTER, NY 14616
_________________________________________________________________
REPORT #3 "SOURCES FOR THE BEST MAILING LISTS"

ORDER REPORT #3 FROM:
            BUSINESS RESEARCH ASSOCIATES            
            459 COLUMBUS AVE, SUITE#504
            NEW YORK, NY 10024
_________________________________________________________________
REPORT #4 "EVALUATING MULTI-LEVEL SALES PLANS"

ORDER REPORT #4 FROM:
            BASQUIAT
            PO BOX 1963
            EVANSTON, IL 60204
_________________________________________________________________

-----------------------------------------------------------------
               ---------------------------------
HERE'S HOW THIS AMAZING PLAN WILL MAKE YOU $MONEY$
-----------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------


Let's say you decide to start small just to see how well it
works. Assume your goal is to get 10 people to participate on
your first level. (Placing a lot of FREE ads on the Internet will
EASILY get a larger response.) Also assume that everyone else in
YOUR ORGANIZATION gets ONLY 10 downline members.  Follow this
example to achieve the STAGGERING results below.

1st level--your 10 members with
$5...........................................$50
2nd level--10 members from those 10 ($5 x
100)..................$500
3rd level--10 members from those 100 ($5 x 1,000)..........$5,000
4th level--10 members from those 1,000 ($5 x 10,000)...$50,000
                                                   THIS TOTALS    
   ----------->$55,550

Remember friends, this assumes that the people who participate
only recruit 10 people each.  Think for a moment what would
happen if they got 20 people to participate!  Most people get
100's of participants! THINK ABOUT IT!

Your cost to participate in this is practically nothing (surely
you can afford $20). You obviously already have an Internet
connection and e-mail is FREE!!! REPORT#3 shows you the most
productive methods for bulk e-mailing and purchasing e-mail
lists.  Some list & bulk e-mail vendors even work on trade!


        About 50,000 new people get online every month!

*******TIPS FOR SUCCESS*******


 *  TREAT THIS AS YOUR BUSINESS!  Be prompt, professional, and
follow 
     the directions accurately.

 *  Send for the four reports IMMEDIATELY so you will have them
when 
    the orders start coming in because:

    When you receive a $5 order, you MUST send out the requested
    product/report to comply with the U.S. Postal & Lottery Laws, Title
    18,Sections 1302 and 1341 or Title 18,  Section 3005 in the U.S. Code,
    also Code of Federal Regs. vol. 16, Sections 255 and 436, which state 
    that "a product or service must be exchanged for money received."

 *  ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON THE ORDERS YOU RECEIVE.

 *  Be patient and persistent with this program. If you follow
the 
    instructions exactly, the results WILL undoubtedly be
SUCCESSFUL!

 *  ABOVE ALL, HAVE FAITH IN YOURSELF AND KNOW YOU WILL SUCCEED!


              *******YOUR SUCCESS GUIDELINE*******


Follow these guidelines to guarantee your success:

If you don't receive 10 to 20 orders for REPORT #1 within two
weeks, continue advertising until you do.  Then, a couple of
weeks later you should receive at least 100 orders for REPORT #2. 
If you don't, continue advertising until you do.  Once you have
received 100 or more orders for REPORT #2, YOU CAN RELAX, because
the system is already working for you, and the cash will continue
to roll in!

THIS IS IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER:

Every time your name is moved down on the list, you are placed in
front of a DIFFERENT report.  You can KEEP TRACK of your PROGRESS
by watching which report people are ordering from you.  If you
want to generate more income, send another batch of e-mails and
start the whole process again!  There is no limit to the income
you will generate from this business!

NOTE:  If you need help with starting a business, registering a business name,       
          how income tax is handled, etc., contact your local office of the Small
Business Administration (a Federal agency) for free help and answers to questions.
Also, the Internal Revenue Service offers free help via telephone and free seminars
about business taxes.


        *******T  E  S  T  I  M  O  N  I  A  L  S*******


     This program does work, but you must follow it EXACTLY! 
Especially the rule of not trying to place your name in a
different position, it won't work and you'll lose a lot of
potential income.  I'm living proof that it works.  It really is
a great opportunity to make relatively easy money, with little
cost to you.  If you do choose to participate, follow the program
exactly, and you'll be on your way to financial security. 
          Sean McLaughlin, Jackson, MS

     My name is Frank. My wife, Doris, and I live in Bel-Air, MD.
I am a cost accountant with a major U.S. Corporation and I make
pretty good money. When I received the program I grumbled to
Doris about receiving "junk mail." I made fun of the whole thing,
spouting my knowledge of the population and percentages involved. 
I "knew" it wouldn't work. Doris totally ignored my supposed
intelligence and jumped in with both feet. I made merciless fun
of her, and was ready to lay the old "I told you so" on her when
the thing didn't work... well, the laugh was on me!  Within two
weeks she had received over 50 responses. Within 45 days she had
received over $147,200 in $5 bills! I was shocked!  I was sure
that I had it all figured and that it wouldn't work.  I AM a
believer now. I have joined Doris in her "hobby."   I did have
seven more years until retirement, but I think of the "rat race"
and it's not for me. We owe it all to MLM.
           Frank T., Bel-Air, MD

    I just want to pass along my best wishes and encouragement to
you.  Any doubts you have will vanish when your first orders come
in. I even checked with the U.S. Post Office to verify that the
plan was legal. It definitely is! IT WORKS!!!
           Paul Johnson, Raleigh, NC

    The main reason for this letter is to convince you that this
system is honest, lawful, extremely profitable, and is a way to
get a large amount of money in a short time. I was approached
several times before I checked this out. I joined just to see
what one could expect in return for the minimal effort and money
required.  To my astonishment, I received $36,470.00 in the first
14 weeks, with money still coming in.
           Sincerely yours, Phillip A. Brown, Esq.

    Not being the gambling type, it took me several weeks to make
up my mind to participate in this plan. But conservative that I
am, I decided that the initial investment was so little that
there was just no way that I wouldn't get enough orders to at
least get my money back. Boy, was I surprised when I found my
medium-size post office box crammed with orders!  For awhile, it
got so overloaded that I had to start picking up my mail at the
window. I'll make more money this year than any 10 years of my
life before. The nice thing about this deal is that it doesn't
matter where in the U.S. the people live. There simply isn't a
better investment with a faster return.
         Mary Rockland, Lansing, MI

    I had received this program before. I deleted it, but later I
wondered if I shouldn't have given it a try. Of course, I had no
idea who to contact to get another copy, so I had to wait until I
was e-mailed another program...11 months passed then it came...I
didn't delete this one!...I made more than $41,000 on the first
try!!
          D. Wilburn, Muncie, IN

     This is my third time to participate in this plan. We have
quit our jobs, and will soon buy a home on the beach and live off
the interest on our money.  The only way on earth that this plan
will work for you is if you do it. For your sake, and for your
family's sake don't pass up this golden opportunity.  Good luck
and happy spending!
           Charles Fairchild, Spokane, WA


               ORDER YOUR REPORTS TODAY AND GET 
STARTED ON YOUR ROAD TO 
FINANCIAL FREEDOM!!!
When you are ready for a bulk e-mailer call Smith
International at 352-629-7695.  They do good work. 
You can send an e-mail to their autoresponder at
popcorn@mfi.net.   Just click on the blue letters and
enter the words "Bulk Email Info" in the Subject Line
and in the body of the letter and then click on the
Send Now button.  All remove requests sent to the
above address will receive an autoresponded
informational flyer.   E-mail addresses are recorded
at that site.  They were charging only $210 for
100,000 TRUE AOL addresses.

















From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: moneyhelp@mymail.com
Date: Sun, 21 Jun 1998 11:30:12 -0700 (PDT)
To: morenewest@newzdoman.com
Subject: Get the MONEY You Need
Message-ID: <199805280419.AAA07839>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


                GET THE MONEY YOU NEED RIGHT NOW!

Here's your chance to...

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How?  Simply  CLICK HERE TO VISIT OUR WEBSITE!
or type or cut & paste: http://www.canus.net/amcap/146.html in your browser

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For a FREE evaluation please visit our website by...

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Especially if you're a homeowner, we can help you.  Try us!





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 06:16:20 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Jim Bell Violation Update
Message-ID: <199806221316.JAA04953@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Jim Bell was released on parole on April 20, but may
be about to be rearrested for parole violation, and
may not yet know the cops are coming to reviolate:

   http://jya.com/jdb062198.htm







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Trei, Peter" 
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 06:42:55 -0700 (PDT)
To: "'cypherpunks@toad.com>
Subject: Eric Young: Zimmerman redux?
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Date: 20 Jun 1998 18:40:14 -0000 
From: Julian Assange  
To: ukcrypto@maillist.ox.ac.uk 

With things starting to heat up here in Australia (DoD/DSD has 
recently taken to making some exceptionally nasty noises about 
prosecuting Eric Young, Tim Hudson and the rest of the Australian 
CryptoMozilla team). I'd like to remind everyone who's interested in 
aussie/nz crypto issues of the aucrypto mailing list. 
 
                      Australasian & Pacific Cryptography 

               mail the word "subscribe" to aucrypto-request@suburbia.net 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Nicole" <43348928@30267.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 16:54:26 -0700 (PDT)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: Just for You
Message-ID: <199342143263123.GXGT24348@default>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Hi...

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 13:22:10 -0700 (PDT)
To: art morales 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Monday 6/22/98 1:02 PM

Senate Judiciary Committee
http://www.senate.gov/committee/judiciary.html

Republicans

Orrin G. Hatch, Utah, Chairman   senator_hatch@Hatch.senate.gov
Strom Thurmond, South Carolina   senator@thurmond.senate.gov
Charles E. Grassley, Iowa   chuck_grassley@grassley.senate.gov
Arlen Specter, Pennsylvania   senator_specter@specter.senate.gov
Fred Thompson, Tennessee   senator_thompson@thompson.senate.gov
Jon Kyl, Arizona   info@kyl.senate.gov
Mike DeWine, Ohio   senator_dewine@dewine.senate.gov
John Ashcroft, Missouri   john_ashcroft@ashcroft.senate.gov
Spencer Abraham, Michigan   michigan@abraham.senate.gov
Jeff Sessions, Alabama

Democrats

Patrick J. Leahy, Vermont   senator_leahy@leahy.senate.gov
Edward M. Kennedy, Massachusetts   senator@kennedy.senate.gov
Joseph R.Biden, Jr., Delaware   senator@biden.senate.gov
Herb Kohl, Wisconsin   senator_kohl@kohl.senate.gov
Dianne Feinstein, California   senator@feinstein.senate.gov
Russell D. Feingold, Wisconsin   russell_feingold@feingold.senate.gov
Richard Durbin, Illinois   dick@durbin.senate.gov
Robert Torricelli, New Jersey   senator@torricelli.senate.gov

Purpose of this e-mail is to give written proof of criminal judicial
misconduct by Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals clerks Hoecker, Fisher, and
Judges Moore, Barrett, Weis and help get this matter settled.

Thursday March 30, 1995 I wrote Tenth Circuit clerk Hoecker to request a
copy of the docket sheets for case 94-2205  Payne v. Sandia Corporation,
et al

Hoecker did not answer my letter.

On Tuesday March 5,1996 I  wrote  Judge Lucius D. Bunton to ask his help
to get a copy of the docket sheets.  No response.

On Monday September 23, 1996 Arthur R Morales and I wrote  Henry A.
Politz, Chief Judge U.S. Court of Appeals - Fifth Circuit to ask his
help to get a copy of the docket sheets of my case and Morales' Tenth
Circuit case 95-2204.

Tenth Circuit also refused to send Morales copies of docket sheets for
his case.

Politz is Bunton's boss.  No response.

Friday May 30, 1997 I wrote Antonin Scalia to get this help to get a
copy of the docket sheets.  No response.

5 May 1998 citizen John Young finds docket sheets on

    Source: PACER, U.S. Court of Appeals, 10th Circuit, 1-800-279-9107

and posts them on Internet at http://jya.com/whp-10usca.htm

  Docket as of April 10, 1998 0:05 am
  Proceedings include all events.
  94-2205  Payne v. Sandia Corporation, et al

shows that I filed my Brief of the Appellant on 2/19/95.

2/23/95     [835344] Appellant's brief filed by William H. Payne.
            Original and 7 copies.   c/s: y. Served on 2/19/95  Oral
            argument? pro se. Appellee/Respondent's brief due 3/24/95
            for Thomas P. Wright, for Robert Surran, for Paul A.
            Stokes, for Mary J. Stang, for Tommy A. Sellers, for Craig
            A. Searls, for Albert Narath, for Preston B. Herrington,
            for Peter S. Hamilton, for Roger L. Hagengruber, for James
            R. Gosler, for Harold L. Folley, for Robert L. Ewing, for
            C. William Childers, for Harvey J. Brewster, for Sandia
            Corporation (mbm)

mbm writes "Appellee/Respondent's brief due 3/24/95"

Sandia had sent me a copy of its brief by 3/28/96.

I filed  attached MOTION TO GRANT PLAINTIFF-APPELLANT'S DEMANDS ON BASIS
THAT DEFENDANT-APPELLEES FAILED TO FILE BRIEF WITHIN 30 DAYS SPECIFIED
BY FEDERAL RULE OF APPELLATE PROCEDURE 31 on Tuesday the 28th day of
March, 1995

My February 28 MOTION at the Tenth Circuit is filed WITHOUT notice of
service logged.

4/4/95       [845484] Appellant's motion filed by Appellant William H.
             Payne [94-2205] to grant appellant's demands on basis that
             appellees' failed to file timely brief. Original and 3
             copies  c/s: y (mbm)

In 1995 FRAP 25 (a) stated  "[b]riefs shall be deemed filed on the day
of mailing if the 
most expeditious form of delivery by mail, excepting special delivery,
is used."

FRAP 25 has been changed by 1998 to
http://www.ca5.uscourts.gov/docs/frap-iop.htm#25a

Since I mailed Appellant's motion filed by Appellant William H.  Payne
[94-2205] to grant appellant's demands on basis that appellees' failed
to file timely brief on 3/28/98, it is likely Sandia's lawyer Friedman
received it 3/29/95.

Tenth Circuit logs

3/30/95      [844759] Appellee's brief filed by Sandia Corporation,
             Harvey J. Brewster, C. William Childers, Robert L. Ewing,
             Harold L. Folley, James R. Gosler, Roger L. Hagengruber,
             Peter S. Hamilton, Preston B. Herrington, Albert Narath,
             Craig A. Searls, Tommy A. Sellers, Mary J. Stang, Paul A.
             Stokes, Robert Surran, Thomas P. Wright. Original and 7
             copies. c/s: y. Served on 3/27/95  Oral Argument? y
             (appellant is pro se) Appellant's optional reply brief due
             4/13/95 for William H. Payne (mbm)

Federal Rule of Appellate Procedure [FRAP] 26 (c) states

  (c) Additional Time after Service. When a party is required or
permitted to act within a      prescribed period after service of a
paper upon that party, 3 calendar days are added to the     prescribed
period unless the paper is delivered on the date of service stated in
the proof of   service. 

  http://www.ca5.uscourts.gov/docs/frap-iop.htm#26c

While the Tenth Circuit ASSERTS Appellees' brief was, in fact, served on
3/27/95
evidence given below points to the brief  was served, in fact, on
3/29/95.  

I allege that Friedman affixed a false date of service to Sandia's
brief.

I WAS NEVER PROPERLY SERVED.  I wrote

          Wednesday March 29, 1995

          Dan Friedman
          Simons, Cuddy & Friedman
          Pecos Trail Office Compound
          1701 Old Pecos Trail
          POB 4160
          Santa Fe, NM 87502-4160
          505-988-4476
          505-984-1807 FAX

          Dear Lawyer Friedman:

          Today at 14:00 hours I found a green and white about 9x13
          inch envelope in our mail box at my home.

          Mailing label indicated that the envelope came from your
          firm.  CONFIDENTIAL was stamped on the mailing label.

          I  wrote "Received at 14:00 hours on W 3/29/95 with no
          POSTMARK OR STAMP by W. H. Payne" at the bottom of the
          envelope.

          There was no STAMP OR POSTAGE METER LABEL or 
          POSTMARK on the envelope.

          Therefore, I gave the envelope to US Postal Service
          supervisor Mel at 14:49 hours today at the Postal Receiving
          station at 9904 Montgomery, NW in Albuquerque.  Mel has a
          copy of the cover of the envelope with Mel's note written on
          it.

          Mel told me the post office was going to return the envelope
          to your firm for proper mailing.

          I ask:

         1    What did this envelope contain?  Please identify
              the documents precisely.

         2    If any Certificates of Service were included in the
              envelope, then what were the dates affixed to these
              documents?

         3    Who placed this envelope in our mail box?

         Lawyer Friedman:  It appears you missed an important filing
         date.  And are in the process of attempt to correct your
         failure.  But may be using illegitimate methods to conceal
         your failure.

         Please respond as soon as possible so that we all may
         discover what has happened here." ...

Lawyer Friedman did not respond to the above letter.

But Friedman did mail me Appellees' brief many days later in envelope
showing TRUE MAILING date.  Certificate of service on received
Appellees' brief
did not reflect postmark date.

10th Cir. R. 25.4 in 1995 page 62 reads
  
  Papers not accepted for filing. -- The clerk shall not file papers
that do not comply
  with the Federal Rules of Appellate Procedure and these rules See
10thCir. R. 42.1

But Tenth Circuit clerks Fisher and Hoecker despite my protests and
submission of
evidence may have stamped FILED on Sandia's IMPROPERLY SERVED 
Appellee/Respondent's brief according to the Federal Rules of Appellate
Procedure.

Laywer Friedman FALSIFIED THE CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE.	

Friedman DID NOT MAIL ME "Served on 3/27/95."

d) Proof of Service; Filing. A paper presented for filing shall contain
an acknowledgment of service by the   person served or proof of service
in the form of a statement of the date and manner of service, of the
name of the person served, and of the addresses to which the papers were
mailed or at which they were delivered, certified by the person who made
service. Proof of service may appear on or be affixed to the papers
filed. When a brief or appendix is filed by mailing or dispatch in
accordance with Rule 25(a)(2)(B), the proof of service shall also state
the date and manner by which the document was mailed or dispatched to
the clerk.

  http://www.ca5.uscourts.gov/docs/frap-iop.htm#25a
  
Crime apparently committed by Hoecker and Fisher is

§ 1017. Government seals wrongfully used and instruments wrongfully
sealed 

Whoever fraudulently or wrongfully affixes or impresses the seal of any
department or agency of the United States, to or upon any certificate,
instrument, commission, document, or paper or with knowledge of its
fraudulent character, with wrongful or fraudulent intent, uses, buys,
procures, sells, or transfers to another any such certificate,
instrument, commission, document, or paper, to which or upon which said
seal has been so fraudulently affixed or impressed, shall be fined under
this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both. 
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/1017.shtml

Despite my protests of judicial misconduct Judges Moore, Barrett, Weis
award decision to Sandia

10/6/95      [890055] Order filed by Judges Moore, Barrett, Weis
             "...All outstanding motions are denied..." (found in Order
             & Judgment of 10/6/95) [879579-1]  Parties served by mail.
             (pdw)

when these judges should not have had Appellees' brief before them.

Then in an apparently attempt to conceal what happened

10/6/95     [890076]  NOTE: THIS ENTIRE CASE IS SEALED. Terminated on
            the Merits after Submission Without Oral Hearing; Judgment
            Affirmed; Written, Signed, Unpublished. Moore, authoring
            judge; Barrett; Weis. [94-2205] (pdw)

I WON MY APPEAL, pro se, ON A TECHNICALITY but judges Judges Moore,
Barrett, Weis
awarded the win to Sandia Labs!

Members of Congress, judicial misconduct in this matter has been
well-documented.  Court records
filed with the Tenth Circuit.  But CURRENTLY under seal.

Lawyers involved in this matter attempt to use the legal strategy of
IGNORE and STONEWALL to
attempt to deny me justice.  

Ignoring and stonewalling by lawyers forced Morales and me to seek
visibility so lawyers
could no longer ignore and stonewall.

Lawyer attitude apparently is that they ignore rules of civil procedure
or even the law so long
as their actions are invisible to public scrutiny.

Visibility was achieved by suing the National Security Agency which
revealed even more judicial misconduct http://www.jya.com/whp052898.htm.

I would like to settle all  matters involved with this unfortunate
cyrpto-related matter,
which includes criminal violations of the Privacy Act.

DOE lawyer Steve Dillingham asked me to prepare a settlement offer in
1994.  I wrote a
settlement letter  May 22, 1994 to Dillingham.  Nothing happened.

June 11, 1998 I made several modifications to my 1994 settlement letter
and sent it e-mail
to Robert Nordhaus, Chief Counsel, DOE.

I ask that you

1  help with settlement of my six-year-old since I won my appeal at the
Tenth Circuit,
2  investigate Tenth Circuit case 94-2205  Payne v. Sandia Corporation,
et al to bring
   the guilty to justice.

Sincerely

william payne

505 292 7037  I am not reading e-mail

http://jya.com/whpfiles.htm
http://www.apcatalog.com/cgi-bin/AP?ISBN=0125475705&LOCATION=US&FORM=FORM2
http://www-hto.usc.edu/software/seqaln/doc/html/gfsr.3.html

Coauthor Lewis in the above is one of my former MS and PhD students in
computer science.

http://www.friction-free-economy.com/



Monday 6/22/98 1:04 PM

Members of Congress

Purpose of this e-mail is to give written proof of criminal judicial
misconduct by Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals clerks Hoecker, Fisher, and
Judges Anderson, Barrett, Logan and request a congressional
investigation.

After several years, with Payne, of trying to get Tenth Circuit to send
docket sheets from my case,
citizen John Young  http://www.jya.com/index.htm  locates docket sheets
and posts them
    
  Morales Case Dockets 10th USCA                    June 12, 1998

on Internet at http://www.jya.com/arm061298.htm.

  Source: Online records Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals via PACER 

  GENERAL DOCKET FOR
  Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals

  Court of Appeals Docket #: 95-2204                           Filed:
9/29/95
  Nsuit: 3440
  Morales v. Sandia National Lab.
  Appeal from: United States District Court for the District of New
Mexico

I filed

11/9/95     [898274] Appellant's brief filed by Arthur R. Morales.
            Original and 2 copies.   c/s: y. Served on 11/7/95.  Oral
            argument? pro se. Appellee's brief due 12/11/95 for Sandia
            National Lab. (pdw)

Sandia files its FIRST ATTEMPT at

12/11/95   [905033] Appellee's deficient brief filed by Sandia
           National Lab.. Appellee's corrected brief due 12/21/95 for
           Sandia National Lab.  additional copies received 12/11/95.
           (fg)

Tenth Circuit court clerk Patrick Fisher writes Wells on December 11,
1995
concerning Sandia's deficient brief

  [C]orrections, however made, must be accompanied by proof of service
  upon all other parties to the appeal. ...

and issues

12/14/95   [905975] FIRST notice of rules violation for Deborah D.
           Wells for Appellee Sandia National Lab. (sls)

Wells submits

12/21/95    [907974] Appellee's brief filed by Sandia National Lab..
            Original and 7 copies.   c/s: y. Served on 12/20/95  Oral
            Argument? n Appellant's optional reply brief due 1/8/96 for
            Arthur R. Morales (mbm)

but DOES NOT serve me with a copy.

Wells later admits in

2/1/96        [917660] Response filed by Sandia National Lab.
              Appellant/Petitioner motion to clarify   Original and 3
              copies.  c/s: y response Null Relief Code (fg)

Certificate of Service date 30th day of January, 1996,

  [h]ad Appellant simply made a phone call to the Tenth Circuit, he
could
  have established that the Defendant-Appellee's corrected brief was
indeed
  filed on a timely basis, ...

I protested by filing

1/3/96       [909965] Appellant's motion "for the Court to Grant
             Appeal" filed by Appellant Arthur R. Morales [95-2204].
             Original and 3 copies.  c/s: y. (pdw)

1/3/96       [909966] Appellant's motion "for New Trial" filed by
             Appellant Arthur R. Morales [95-2204]. Original and 3
             copies.  c/s: y. (pdw)

1/3/96       [909967] Appellant's motion "to Discipline
             Defendant-Appellee" filed by Appellant Arthur R. Morales
             [95-2204]. Original and 3 copies.  c/s: y. (pdw)

because Sandia did not properly serve me in violation of Fisher's
December
11, 1995 order.

The Tenth Circuit court of appeals should NOT, by its own rules, filed
Appellee's brief filed by Sandia National Lab..  Original and 7
copies.   
c/s: y. Served on 12/20/95

10th Cir. R. 25.4 in 1995 page 62 reads
  
  Papers not accepted for filing. -- The clerk shall not file papers
that do not comply
  with the Federal Rules of Appellate Procedure and these rules See
10thCir. R. 42.1

And is doubtful whether court clerk Fisher had any authority under
appellate procedure
to permit Wells to correct her deficient brief.  

Rather Sandia's  brief did not comply with with Federal Rules of
Appellate Procedure and should have been summarily rejected for filing.

I WON, pro se, my appeal to the Tenth circuit on a technicality but
Judges Anderson, Barrett, Logan
awarded the win to Sandia Labs.

4/2/96        [932848] Order filed by Judges Anderson, Barrett, Logan
              denying parties' motions for general relief(found in Order
              and Judgment of 4/2/96)--"...During the course of this
              appeal, the parties have filed various motions for
              dismissal, summary grant, and sanctions. We find no merit
              to any of these motions, and they are [920851-1] Parties
              served by mail. (pdw)

by accepting and judging on a documents which was not permitted to be
before the court by
its own rules.

Judicial misconduct in my case has been well-documented as it is in
Payne's case.

Payne and I speculate that similar judicial misconduct may have occurred
at the Tenth Circuit.

Sandia lawyer Robert J Park wrote me a settlement letter on Feb 18,
1998.

I filled in the blanks and made minor handwritten chages and returned it
on February 22, 1998.  

But my offer has not yet been accepted.

I ask that you

1  help have my settlement offer accepted,
2  investigate judicial misconduct in case 95-2204 and punish the
guilty.

Some citizens can only express such frustrations with the US court
system with violence.

I seek change by legal reform.

Sincerely

Arthur R Morales
505 345 1381






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: CTIA Daily News 
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 14:24:44 -0700 (PDT)
To: CTIA Daily News 
Subject: CTIA Daily News from WOW-COM - June 22, 1998
Message-ID: <199806222114.QAA21599@revnet4.revnet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



========================================
Welcome to today's edition of the CTIA Daily News
from WOW-COM.  Please click on the icon for the
most important news in wireless communications today.
========================================


From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC 
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 17:32:39 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Blood Sausage -- SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS!!!
Message-ID: <009C818C.71EFAE40.1@west.cscwc.pima.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


BloodSausage HogLog - SPACE ALIENS HIDE M DRUGS!!!
___________________________________________________

"The lives of Frank, Gambino, Morel and Serafini ended on 
the gallows of Montreal's Bordeaux Jail on October 24,
1924. Valentino and Davis had their executions commuted
at the last minute."

"No one claimed Frank, Gambino and Valentino were among
the half-dozen gunmen who ambushed the bank car, but
prosecutorn R.L. Calder argued they were still guilty of
murder because of the organized nature of the crime."

~Excerpts from "Blood Brothers" by Peter Edwards.


  MeTheSheeple was glad to learn that these vile, criminal
scumbags, fingered by the person who had actually planned
and committed the crime, were held accountable for the
actions alleged to them by the gang-leader whose life was
spared in return for ratting out alleged coconspirators.
  I was particularly happy because I knew that the same
high standards of justice would undoubtedly be applied to
the criminal scum within the Canadian Justice System under
whose PigSkin Umbrella the Montreal Mobsters ruled the
streets and the citizens who walked them.

"Testimony at the Frank robbery trial showed that police
routinely sipped coffee with hoods and that Montreal's
finest had been tipped off to the armoured car hold-up
well in advance, but did nothing."

  Supreme Court of Canada Justice Louise Coderre (with a
left-handed frog-tongue over the first 'e') said, "Vice
has spread itself across the city with an ugliness that
seemed assured of impunity."

  Rather than bore you with all of the details behind the
criminal scumbag PigsWithBadgesAndGuns being also found
'GUILT OF MURDER BECAUSE OF THE ORGANIZED NATURE OF THE
CRIME', I will just skip ahead in the book and report on
the final outcome of  JUSTICE 
in the case of the police and city officials discovered
to have greased the wheels of organized crime in their
activities of drug dealing, robbery, murder, etc.
  Hmmm....nope...nada....maybe...nope...nope...

  Surprise, surprise! It seems that, following the
Coderre probe, "nothing happened that seriously
threatened the criminals' take. The name of Cadiex 
Street was changed to de Bullion Street after a New
ork play made the old name notorious, but along the 
same pavement the same crimes continued."

  Those without my cynical psychological make-up will
undoubtedly be able to supply you with reasons as to
just why the local citizens felt extremely 'served and
protected' when they came to after being mugged and saw
the new street signs, however, I will merely take a short
break, here, have a good dump, and wipe my butt with yet
another page of the Criminal Code of Canada.


And Silk Badges..?:

"I know who the real public enemies are. But they are
men who have the respect of the public; men who wear
silk hats, who are apparently of standing in the 
community."
~1930's Montreal MobBuster, J.J. Penverne
 (with no frog-licks in his name...)

  Peter Edwards provides the standard journalistic
explaination as to how "The term 'Mafia,' in its truest
form, refers only to organized crime in western Sicily."
and explains how it has been expanded to encompass any
pair of teenagers throwing a rock through a window, as
long as one of them has an Italian name.
  He neglects to explain, as some journalists do, that
the word "Mafia" is becoming increasingly generic, now
including the 'Lebanese Mafia', the 'Columbian Mafia',
etc.
  *All* journalists, however, seem unable to explain why
they continue to avoid naming the continuing organized forces
of armed domination over citizens of *all* ethnic groups the
'Government Mafia'...

  "Blood Brothers" is not the first book to point out that
at the heart of the "honoured society of Calabria" lies the
concept of "omerta" (with a right-handed strand of spaghetti
over the 'a').
  Nor is it the first book to fail to point out that omerta's
"double code of conduct that set different moral codes for 
dealings with those inside and outside one's family circle"
applies not only to Officially Recognized Criminal ScumBag
Organizations, but also to almost every 'gang' larger than
a Cult Of One from the PTA to the CIA to the USA. 
  'Omerta' decrees that when the president of the PTA molests
a child, when the head of the CIA commits treason, when the
president of the USA declares that US citizens will continue
to face imprisonment for exporting the same strength of
encryption that their government is sharing with Communist
China, that a street somewhere be renamed, while everything
else continues on pretty much as before.


  Don't hold your breath waiting for mainstream journalists
to upset the BadAppleCart by referring to the 'PTA Mafia' when 
they deem that your child should be forced to attend school with
a child who can murder them by biting them, while teaching
them that you are a dangerous psycho because of your gun
ownership; or to the 'FBI Mafia' when they murder a mother and
child in attempts to cover their previous unannounced, botched
armed assault on a citizen being charged with civil crimes in
an attempt to persuade him to invent crimes against his friends,
whether they were Jewish or not; or to the 'Government Mafia'
when they spend millions of dollars investigating and/or charging
Phil Zimmerman, Bill Clinton, Bill Gates, Jim Bell, knowing that
the bottomless taxpayer pockets funding their legally unjustified
harassment will guarantee at least moderately successful results,
even if the end result is dropping the matter when the multi-
million dollar stench begins blowing back toward DC.
  Do not expect mainstream journalists to refer to the 'ASPCA
Mafia' when they release a hastily composed 'history' of 
TruthMongrel as a rabid, sharp-toothed, human baby conniseur,
after HeOrShe is cut down by FBI gunfire on Mayonaisse Mountain
during attempts to arrest the Author on 'Dog At Large' charges
filed by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police in Bienfait, Sask.


Silk? We Don't Need No Stinking Silk...:
  The multi-facted PigsEar WebSites that are increasingly
being turned into InterNet Cult of One SilkPurses through
the increasingly efficient and powerful shareware digital
bread-slicers available to Jane and Joe Sheeple in their
quest to serve either God, Mammon, Dog or Mammy, according
to their prediliction, have the capacity, if uncensored 
and uncontrolled, of allowing the individual to rekindle
the creative spark of individuality that reminds them that
the word 'WE' should only be used by Kings, Priests, and
people with tapeworms.
  People with the ability to think for themselves; people
who know that if Timothy McVeigh was really the 'Muenster'
that the mainstream media claimed, then he would have been
in the 'Adams Family' movie; people who demand to know if
Monica Lewinski has a 'bent' pussy; people with conspiring
minds, who want to 'snow'; people who are not afraid to
stand up and cheer for the Officially Recognized BadGuys
on 'Cops' and 'World's Scariest Innocent Bystander
Threatening Police Chases'; people watching 'World's Dumbest
Criminals' who slap their forehead and say, "I hate it when
that happens..."
  People who read the Bienfait Nutly News.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Steve Orrin" 
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 16:19:07 -0700 (PDT)
To: "Cypherpunks Algebra" 
Subject: Verisign & NAI Join Forces, PGP out the door?
Message-ID: <199806222317.SAA04853@dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


To all:

Word is the PGP is being dropped as a standard and NAI converting over to
x.509 throughout product line. However the info is vague wnough to mean
alot of things:)

sorrin

NETWORK ASSOCIATES AND VERISIGN PARTNER TO PROVIDE INTEROPERABLE
6/22/98 13:18


         Digital Certificate Solutions to Millions of Users Worldwide

    Partnership Provides Customers Choice of Leading Certificate Formats,
          Enabling Widespread Secure Internet Business Transactions

    MOUNTAIN VIEW and SANTA CLARA, Calif., June 22 /PRNewswire/ --
VeriSign,
Inc. (Nasdaq: VRSN), and Network Associates (Nasdaq: NETA), today announced
a
broad reaching partnership to enable cross product support and promotion of

each company's digital certificate-based security solutions.  This
partnership
will provide customers with a flexible security solution that encompasses
best-of-breed products and technologies -- enabling secure global
electronic
commerce and business-to-business communications on a larger scale than
ever
before.  With this announcement, Network Associates and VeriSign can tap
into
the world's largest community of certificate holders made up of over one
thousand five hundred enterprises and nearly nine million individuals
throughout the world.
    This integration of the world's leading certificate technologies will
enable businesses to utilize their choice of certificate formats while
conducting secure Internet transactions such as:  exchanging secure e-mail,
establishing virtual private networks, and authorized access to
confidential
corporate data.  Network Associates and VeriSign customers will now be able
to
establish combined PKI solutions covering the complete lifecycle of
certificates from issuance and usage through renewal, expiration, or
revocation.  The first commercial offering from this collaboration will be
interoperable between the Gauntlet GVPN product and VeriSign OnSite for
IPSEC,
which will be available in the third quarter.  In the fourth quarter
VeriSign's OnSite service and toolkit will be enhanced to issue DSA X.509
certificates in addition to its RSA X.509 certificates, and Network
Associates' Net Tools Secure, including their industry leading PGP
encryption
products, will be updated to request and use either type of certificate.
    "By joining the two largest players in the industry to ensure that our
customers' security applications are seamlessly compatible, we are fueling
the
growth of electronic commerce and secure communications on the Internet,"
said
Peter Watkins general manager of the Net Tools Secure division at Network
Associates.  "We are pleased to offer VeriSign as our preferred provider of
digital certificate services.  Together, we are the only two companies to

support the full range of certificate standards -- giving customers the
power
of choice when implementing their open, certificate-based security
solutions."
    "We are extremely pleased to work with Network Associates to bring
enterprise customers a clear best-of-breed solution," said Stratton
Sclavos,
president and CEO of VeriSign.  "With this partnership, users of Network
Associates' desktop and server encryption applications can simply obtain
their
choice of digital certificates to establish a fully functional,
interoperable
PKI through the use of OnSite."
    "The announcement from VeriSign and Network Associates is a win-win
situation for Information Systems (IS) decision makers," said Jim Hurley,
director of information security at Aberdeen Group, a Boston-based IS
market-research, consulting and analysis firm.  "One supplier helps IS
managers by managing risk while the other helps IS managers by enabling
safe
interconnections with suppliers, partners and customers for mission
business-procedures.  Interoperable and seamless support between these
supplier's products is the kind of partnership that IS executives will
reward."
    VeriSign OnSite, a state of the art digital certificate solution that
enables organizations to quickly and easily establish themselves as a
certificate authority, is available today for client and server digital
certificates and will be available for IPSec digital certificates in the
third
quarter.  VeriSign OnSite pricing begins at $4995 for 1000 client
certificates.
    Network Associates' Net Tools Secure suite is the industry's most
comprehensive set of security products encompassing enterprise encryption,
authentication, intrusion detection, audit analysis, anti-virus, firewall,
global virtual private network and network vulnerability assessment.  Net
Tools Secure is available now and is priced at $49 per user for 5000 users.

    Network Associates, Inc.
    With headquarters in Santa Clara, California, Network Associates, Inc.,
formed by the merger of McAfee Associates and Network General, is a leading
supplier of enterprise network security and management solutions. Network
Associates' Net Tools Secure and Net Tools Manager offer
best-of-breed, suite-based network security and management solutions.  Net
Tools Secure and Net Tools Manager suites combine to create Net Tools,
which
centralizes these point solutions within an easy-to-use, integrated systems

management environment. For more information, Network Associates can be
reached at 408-988-3832 or on the Internet at http://www.nai.com.
    VeriSign, Inc. is the leading provider of digital certificate solutions
used by enterprises, Web sites and consumers to conduct secure
communications
and transactions over the Internet and private networks. VeriSign's Digital
IDs and Secure Server IDs are available through the company's Web site at
http://www.verisign.com.  VeriSign's E-Commerce Solutions are used by
enterprises to deploy complete Public Key Infrastructure (PKI) solutions
for
intranets, extranets, and large-scale electronic commerce applications, and
are available through VeriSign regional account representatives or through
VeriSign resellers.  For more information visit VeriSign's Web site at
http://www.verisign.com.

SOURCE  Network Associates, Inc.
    -0-                             06/22/98
    /CONTACT:  Nathan Tyler of Copithorne & Bellows, 415-975-2223, for
Network
Associates; or Kelly Ryan of VeriSign, 650-429-3424/
    /Company News On-Call:  http://www.prnewswire.com or fax, 800-758-5804,
ext. 124004/
    /Web site:  http://www.verisign.com
                http://www.nai.com/
    (NETA VRSN)

CO:  Network Associates, Inc.; VeriSign, Inc.
ST:  California
IN:  CPR MLM
SU:  PDT









-0- (PRN) Jun/22/98   13:03
EOS   (PRN)    Jun/22/98    13:03      86

-0- (PRN) Jun/22/  98   13:18






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Steve Orrin" 
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 16:20:14 -0700 (PDT)
To: "Cypherpunks Algebra" 
Subject: Entrust goes Public
Message-ID: <199806222319.SAA04946@dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary..3993.1071713789.multipart/mixed"

--Boundary..3993.1071713789.multipart/mixed
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


> Entrust filed to go public. 

--Boundary..3993.1071713789.multipart/mixed
Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="bin00000.bin"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="bin00000.bin"
Content-Description: "ENTRUST TECHNOLOGIES INC (Internet Shortcut)"

W0ludGVybmV0U2hvcnRjdXRdClVSTD1odHRwOi8vd3d3MS5mcmVlZWRnYXIu
Y29tL3NlYXJjaC9WaWV3RmlsaW5ncy5hc3A/Q0lLPTEwMzEyODMmRGlyZWN0
b3J5PTkyNzAxNiZZZWFyPTk4JlNFQ0luZGV4PTI0NjgmRXh0ZW5zaW9uPS50
c3QmUGF0aEZsYWc9MCZUZXh0RmlsZVNpemU9MTU5NjIyNyZTRlR5cGU9JlNE
RmlsZWQ9JkRhdGVGaWxlZD02LzE5Lzk4JlNvdXJjZVBhZ2U9RmlsaW5nc1Jl
c3VsdHMmRm9ybVR5cGU9Uy0xJkNvbXBhbnlOYW1lPUVOVFJVU1RfVEVDSE5P
TE9HSUVTX0lOQyZPRU1Tb3VyY2U9CgAAAAAAAIivSAA=
--Boundary..3993.1071713789.multipart/mixed--



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Martin C Sweitzer 
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 17:23:58 -0700 (PDT)
To: msew+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: export Laws regarding less than 40 bit encryption
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Can anyone point me to a document that clearly states the laws governing
the export of software with less than 40 bits worth of encryption. 

The ITAR made my head hurt.  (damn lawyers)



thanks

msew





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: CTIA Daily News 
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 22:49:41 -0700 (PDT)
To: CTIA Daily News 
Subject: CTIA Daily News From WOW-COM - June 22, 1998
Message-ID: <199806230545.AAA07698@revnet4.revnet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



========================================
Welcome to today's edition of the CTIA Daily News
from WOW-COM.  Please click on the icon for the
most important news in wireless communications today.
========================================


From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 05:49:03 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Jim Bell Rearrested
Message-ID: <199806231248.IAA16982@camel8.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


JY note: The message below has not been authenticated. The writer claimed
no knowledge of the arrest at the time I spoke with him, which was 
after the date and time of the arrest given in the message. It's
possible he was withholding the information for publication or by
request of confidentiality. The message may be a forgery written
after seeing the messages at http://jya.com/jdb062198.htm. The IRS
has sent spam concerning Jim Bell before: http://jya.com/irs-spam.htm.

From: Anonymous 3
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 23:31:33 EDT
To: jya@pipeline.com
Subject: Jim Bell and anon

John: 

This is [a journalist] whom you called today about Bell. He was
arrested at his parents' home in Vancouver Monday about 1:07 a.m. PDT by five
federal marshals in two cars. The agents went in with guns drawn and came out
with Bell's elderly parents, with whom they talked for a while. A few minutes
later, they brought out Jim, who was handcuffed in front, dressed in a blue T-
shirt and slacks. He was put in the back of a red Jeep, and then leg chained
by an agent. (I tried to ask one of the agents if Jim was going to be taken
directly to Tacoma - my assumption - but the agent was a typical marshals
service jerk and just told me to stay away.)

Jim was in the backseat for about 20 minutes and then two agents came out and
drove him away - after one agent accidentally set off the Jeep "wa-wa" siren -
...just as TV arrived. the other three agents remained in the house, looking
for "evidence," i assume.

I expect him to appear before a federal magistrate in Tacoma tomorrow
morning. His federal defender still has not been provided any paper by the
govt.

so, now yr up to date.

on another matter, I was curious abt the anonymous info sent you. i've been
trying to get an anon remailer for some time, but have been unsuccessful. got
any tips, advice or help?			







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 08:47:20 -0700 (PDT)
To: John Young 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



So, is this in reference to his purported request to get access to
computers after his release?

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
Philodox: , e$: 
               





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: jkthomson 
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 12:13:08 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: PGPdisk for win95/98?
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980623121806.006ce848@dowco.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


	



	Great, so I finally get around to checking PGP's betaweb, and to my
amazement, they finally have a beta version of PGPdisk for 95.  Too bad it
claims that I need to contact a sales rep, and when I follow their link, I
get nothing that would really point me in the right direction.  Any of you
manage to get your hands on a copy? 

	Currently, I am using bestcrypt NP with blowfish.  I am a little concerned
with this however, As I have never seen a crypto-review of the software,
and their website is not too forthcoming with technical details, or known
attacks.  Does anyone have information (or horror stories) from using
bestcrypt? 



---------------------------------------------------------------
 james 'keith' thomson        ICQ:746241
 jkthomson:  C181 991A 405C EAFB 2C46  79B5 B1DC DB78 8196 122D
 http://www.bigfoot.com/~ceildh            at pgp.mit.edu
---------------------------------------------------------------

You can lead a man to slaughter, but you can't make him think.
================================================================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: CTIA Daily News 
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 10:42:49 -0700 (PDT)
To: CTIA Daily News 
Subject: CTIA Daily News From WOW-COM
Message-ID: <199806231737.MAA29674@revnet4.revnet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



========================================
Welcome to today's edition of the CTIA Daily News
from WOW-COM.  Please click on the icon for the
most important news in wireless communications today.
========================================


From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: juutoo91@jj008@drackin.com
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 12:15:45 -0700 (PDT)
To: juutoo91@jj008@drackin.com
Subject: Creating Wealth In America
Message-ID: <199806232650RAA53408@adv01.ieighty.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Creating Wealth in America

>From the desk of Robert Allen, The Author of 2 Mega Best-Sellers, Nothing Down
 and Creating  Wealth in America

San Diego, California 
 11:29 P.M.

"I can't sleep until I get this off my chest."

"I'm extremely frustrated".

Odds are that nine out of ten people who receive this letter will discard it without a second thought.  Yet, I know that I have discovered a secret that could change your financial life forever!  And I'm willing to share it with you for FREE.

     Do you want to end your money pressures forever?
     Do you want to double your income?
     Do you want to build an extra stream of income quickly?

If you answered yes, then let me show you how you can begin living your dreams, this year before it's too late.  I'll get right to the point.

As it says on the letterhead, my name is Robert Allen.  I'm famous for my two #1 New York Times best-selling books.  Nothing Down and Creating Wealth in America.  There are lots of millionaires who credit their success to one of my books or seminars.  So when I share this secret with you, I want you to know that I've done my homework.  Here it comes.

I have discovered what I believe is the perfect home-based business.

Although I'm well known for real-estate investment books and seminars, this new business has absolutely nothing to do with real-estate.  In fact, it's much easier and far less risky.  It involves:

-No employees
-Little risk
-Little start up cash
-It's so simple, anyone can do it

You could be earning $1,000 a week in as little as 90 days.  One person I know went from zero to $3,000 a week in 60 days.  That's $150,000 a year extra, hassle-free income!

In my 20 years of research, I can honestly say, "I've never seen a faster, easier way to create a stream of income".

I know this sounds too good to be true.  Frankly, I didn't believe it myself at first.  Finally, I agreed to check it out.  As a test, I selected a small group of people and introduced them to this incredible opportunity.  Almost immediately, many of them started earning profits.  Within a week, many were earning incomes of $4,000 per month in net cash flow.  Now, some of them are cashing checks for $3,000 a week.  And this is just the beginning!  Their earning potential could be unlimited!

Would you like to learn how to do that?  I'd love to show you how.  But only if you're interested enough to make one telephone call.  The number to call immediately is 1-888-267-4455.  It's a 3-minute, 24-hour recorded message.  This may be the answer you have been seeking.

Warmly,

Robert G. Allen

P.S.  I want to show you how to create extra streams of income quickly,
      Go to the phone and call now 1-888-267-4455.


// 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Max Inux 
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 13:55:44 -0700 (PDT)
To: dc-stuff@dis.org
Subject: Re: Verisign & NAI Join Forces, PGP out the door? (fwd)
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


This is what I was able to find out about the Verisign/NAI partnership.

-- Max Inux (MaxInux@bigfoot.com) UIN: 207447, http://khercs.chipware.net 
Strong Cryptography makes the world a safer place- PGP: 0x5CCFCA59
Or Kinky sex makes the world go round- Christie: Your in my sig too
^^ If Cryptography is outlawed,  only outlaws will have cryptography ^^

 

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 10:22:26 -0700
From: Jon Callas 
To: Max Inux , Sean_Paswater@nai.com
Cc: chip@chipware.net, jon@pgp.com
Subject: Re: Verisign & NAI Join Forces, PGP out the door? (fwd)

At 08:10 PM 6/22/98 -0700, Max Inux wrote:
   Chip and Jon:
   
   Chip:  Have any insight into this or is this gonna be like the TIS scare
   w/ Key Escrow?
   
   Jon:  Since Chip will probably end up asking you or some of the other
   higher ups if he is unsure, Is there any truth to this story, or is this
   TIS #2?
   
The tale is true -- it's the *interpretation* that's bogus. PGP is not out
the door. PGP will be doing X.509 too. There's not a lot of difference
between an X.509 certificate and a PGP key signature. They do the same
thing. What you'll be able to do is have Verisign sign your key. The first
steps of this are coming this fall -- you'll be able to drop an X.509 cert
into your keyring and it will magically transform itself into a PGP key. At
first, you'll only be able to use it with TLS (a.k.a. SSL), which is also
coming this fall. 

	Jon



-----
Jon Callas                                  jon@pgp.com
CTO, Total Network Security                 3965 Freedom Circle
Network Associates, Inc.                    Santa Clara, CA 95054
(408) 346-5860                              
Fingerprints: D1EC 3C51 FCB1 67F8 4345 4A04 7DF9 C2E6 F129 27A9 (DSS)
              665B 797F 37D1 C240 53AC 6D87 3A60 4628           (RSA)





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Max Inux 
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 13:55:40 -0700 (PDT)
To: jkthomson 
Subject: Re: PGPdisk for win95/98?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980623121806.006ce848@dowco.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


No horror stories of bestcrypt, but I hear that PGPdisk is damn dope,
except for two things.  The crypto 'file/partition/whatever' is static in
size, not dynamic, and it does _not_ use your pgp key.. But it looks like
it should still be neat.. I still like CFS for  linux :-)

-- Max Inux (MaxInux@bigfoot.com) UIN: 207447, http://khercs.chipware.net 
Strong Cryptography makes the world a safer place- PGP: 0x5CCFCA59
Or Kinky sex makes the world go round- Christie: Your in my sig too
^^ If Cryptography is outlawed,  only outlaws will have cryptography ^^

 

On Tue, 23 Jun 1998, jkthomson wrote:

> 
> 	
> 
> 
> 
> 	Great, so I finally get around to checking PGP's betaweb, and to my
> amazement, they finally have a beta version of PGPdisk for 95.  Too bad it
> claims that I need to contact a sales rep, and when I follow their link, I
> get nothing that would really point me in the right direction.  Any of you
> manage to get your hands on a copy? 
> 
> 	Currently, I am using bestcrypt NP with blowfish.  I am a little concerned
> with this however, As I have never seen a crypto-review of the software,
> and their website is not too forthcoming with technical details, or known
> attacks.  Does anyone have information (or horror stories) from using
> bestcrypt? 
> 
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>  james 'keith' thomson        ICQ:746241
>  jkthomson:  C181 991A 405C EAFB 2C46  79B5 B1DC DB78 8196 122D
>  http://www.bigfoot.com/~ceildh            at pgp.mit.edu
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> You can lead a man to slaughter, but you can't make him think.
> ================================================================
> 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 10:49:37 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Jim Bell Rearrested 2
In-Reply-To: <199806231248.IAA16982@camel8.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <199806231749.NAA16701@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


The message about Jim's rearrest yesterday is confirmed,
except the time of arrest was 1:07 PM, not AM. The reporter
went by Jim's house after confirming that a bust was scheduled
and waited for the action.

Jim's been taken from Vancouver, WA, where he lives with his
parents, to either Spokane or Seattle, for a hearing before
a magistrate on the alleged parole violation. Jim's public
defender is on the matter.

No information on Jim's alleged violation, although the reporter
says supposedly there's a long list of prohibitions including one 
against going near a federal facility, "even a mailbox." 

Someone's trying to a get a copy of the list which should be 
public information.

Jim's appeal with the Ninth Circuit Court is presumably for 
reduction of the onerous prohibitions which may have
been made sever enough that he could be hauled in
whenever publicity is needed in the lucrative fight against 
"terrorism of the American people," a fever for funding that's 
feeding bucks into the bottomless pockets of US Justus 
Terrorists coming to call.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 12:10:31 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: NSA Declassifies Algos
Message-ID: <199806231910.PAA29551@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Thanks to Ed Roback, NIST:


http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Jun1998/b06231998_bt316-98.html

DoD Press Release, June 23, 1998:

No. 316-78
IMMEDIATE RELEASE
June 23, 1998
(703)695-0192(media)
(703)697-5737(public/industry)

           ENCRYPTION FORMULAS DECLASSIFIED

The Department of Defense today announced the decision by the 
National Security Agency to declassify both the Key Exchange 
Algorithm and the SKIPJACK encryption algorithm used in the 
FORTEZZA(tm) personal computer card. FORTEZZA(tm) provides 
security at the desktop in the Defense Message System and other 
DoD applications. This marks the first time that the NSA has 
declassified such information and made it commercially available. 

This declassification is an essential part of the Department of 
Defense's efforts to work with commercial industry in developing 
reasonably priced computer protection products. This 
declassification decision will enable industry to develop software 
and smartcard based security products, which are interoperable 
with FORTEZZA(tm). The availability of such products will enhance 
the protection of DoD's sensitive but unclassified and critical 
non-mission communications. 

The decision to release SKIPJACK (an 80 bit encryption algorithm 
that is not extensible to higher key lengths) and KEA (a 1024 bit 
key exchange algorithm) is restricted to these particular 
algorithms, and does not apply to other classified NSA algorithms. 
The SKIPJACK and KEA algorithms and their source codes have been 
declassified pursuant to Executive Order 12958. 

Vendors interested in obtaining more information on this matter 
should contact the National Security Agency Public Affairs Office 
at 301-688-6524. 

[End]

-----

Note: We called NSA Public Affairs who said that more information 
will be available tomorrow afternoon on NIST's Web site (no specific 
URL):

   http://www.nist.gov

In the meantime NSA will respond to faxed questions; send to:

   Vanessa Talieri
   Office of Public Affairs
   National Security Agency
   Fax: 301-497-2844






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Alex `Taker` Pircher 
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 10:02:41 -0700 (PDT)
To: pircher@informatik.tu-muenchen.de
Subject: Anonymicer
Message-ID: <358FDF49.4AC1@informatik.tu-muenchen.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Protect your Privacy for FREE!

http://anonymicer.home.ml.org/
(or http://anonymicer.home.pages.de/)

* Surf anonymously         -  http://anonymicer.home.ml.org/
* Send anonymous Emails    -  http://anonymicer.home.ml.org/email/
* Post anonymous Messages
  into Newsgroups          -  http://anonymicer.home.ml.org/news/

Fast - Easy - Free

Greetz,
 Taker

 pircher@informatik.tu-muenchen.de




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Lucky Green 
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 16:11:27 -0700 (PDT)
To: Max Inux 
Subject: Re: Verisign & NAI Join Forces, PGP out the door? (fwd)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


The primary difference between X.509v3 vs. PGP keys is one of format, not
of function. There is nothing you can do in native PGP key format that you
can't do in X.509.

However, many companies mandate keys to be kept in X.509 format
for compatibility reasons (you can then put the key on a smartcard, etc.).
What this move will mean is that PGP will make further inroads into the
corporate world and that strong crypto will be used more widely.

Standardization is a Good Thing.

--Lucky

On Tue, 23 Jun 1998, Max Inux wrote:

> This is what I was able to find out about the Verisign/NAI partnership.
> 
> -- Max Inux (MaxInux@bigfoot.com) UIN: 207447, http://khercs.chipware.net 
> Strong Cryptography makes the world a safer place- PGP: 0x5CCFCA59
> Or Kinky sex makes the world go round- Christie: Your in my sig too
> ^^ If Cryptography is outlawed,  only outlaws will have cryptography ^^
> 
>  
> 
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 10:22:26 -0700
> From: Jon Callas 
> To: Max Inux , Sean_Paswater@nai.com
> Cc: chip@chipware.net, jon@pgp.com
> Subject: Re: Verisign & NAI Join Forces, PGP out the door? (fwd)
> 
> At 08:10 PM 6/22/98 -0700, Max Inux wrote:
>    Chip and Jon:
>    
>    Chip:  Have any insight into this or is this gonna be like the TIS scare
>    w/ Key Escrow?
>    
>    Jon:  Since Chip will probably end up asking you or some of the other
>    higher ups if he is unsure, Is there any truth to this story, or is this
>    TIS #2?
>    
> The tale is true -- it's the *interpretation* that's bogus. PGP is not out
> the door. PGP will be doing X.509 too. There's not a lot of difference
> between an X.509 certificate and a PGP key signature. They do the same
> thing. What you'll be able to do is have Verisign sign your key. The first
> steps of this are coming this fall -- you'll be able to drop an X.509 cert
> into your keyring and it will magically transform itself into a PGP key. At
> first, you'll only be able to use it with TLS (a.k.a. SSL), which is also
> coming this fall. 
> 
> 	Jon
> 
> 
> 
> -----
> Jon Callas                                  jon@pgp.com
> CTO, Total Network Security                 3965 Freedom Circle
> Network Associates, Inc.                    Santa Clara, CA 95054
> (408) 346-5860                              
> Fingerprints: D1EC 3C51 FCB1 67F8 4345 4A04 7DF9 C2E6 F129 27A9 (DSS)
>               665B 797F 37D1 C240 53AC 6D87 3A60 4628           (RSA)
> 
> 


-- Lucky Green  PGP v5 encrypted email preferred.
   "Tonga? Where the hell is Tonga? They have Cypherpunks there?"





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 01:01:05 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Banning privacy: A radical proposal
In-Reply-To: <19980624011241.15925.qmail@hades.rpini.com>
Message-ID: <199806240806.DAA022.63@geiger.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In <19980624011241.15925.qmail@hades.rpini.com>, on 06/24/98 
   at 01:12 AM, Anonymous  said:

>This came from Yahoo/ZDNet. Mr. Pappas suggests that we just ban
>anonymity and privacy to "protect the children." Now where have I heard
>that before? And yet again, the "Ethical Hackers Against Pedophilia"
>raise their heads, no pun intended.

To hell with the children!!

If we need anything in this country it is a good supply of hemp rope so
whenever one of these control freaks tries to wipe their ass with the
Constitution under the guise of "saving the children" they are immediately
dragged out by their heals and lynched on the spot!!

If they are so anxious to "save the children" why don't they ban all
automobiles? I don't have exact figures but I am sure 1,000's of children
die and 10,000's are injured every year in auto accidents. I am sure that
Detroit and the oil industry might have a few words against it not to
mention 100 million angry motorist.

And if they really want to save some children why don't they shut down the
multi-billion dollar infanticide industry known as abortion. Why are these
medical hacks allowed to do to children what they would be jailed for
doing to a dog? Perhaps because it serves nicely with the elitist goals of
population control (need to keep the number of niggers, bean pickers, and
white trash down to a controllable number) not to mention that their
pockets are well lined by the hacks.

If they were truly operating on moral principals one would think they
would go after that which causes the greatest harm to the most children.
But of course they don't. They have no more morality than a bitch in heat.
Their "save the children" bit is just a pre-emptive trump against any
opposition (how can you not be for saving children!!).

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgp.html
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: I'm an OS/2 developer...I don't NEED a life!

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3a-sha1
Charset: cp850
Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000

iQCVAwUBNZCziI9Co1n+aLhhAQFCJgQAms7GyayB9pF3OMDHIrT+5Dp8TvXlkTRh
HBifHyMhTTnOIfsRryhXzgdM+20ALIVzWat0KSjnpW26e/JRnuIEnAN3B1pYcfVy
P//irI9EbVhAnYWt5hSwhxEOhZxYwUas+tUw7vKXioiK3LQw8iigWvs9HhP16Gpu
y+P+XpPxpxs=
=Nd63
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 19:42:15 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Banning privacy: A radical proposal
Message-ID: <19980624011241.15925.qmail@hades.rpini.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




This came from Yahoo/ZDNet. Mr. Pappas suggests that we just ban anonymity
and privacy to "protect the children." Now where have I heard that before?
And yet again, the "Ethical Hackers Against Pedophilia" raise their heads,
no pun intended.

>Banning privacy: A radical proposal 
>
>By Charles Pappas 
>June 22, 1998 
>Yahoo! Internet Life 
>
>Copyright (c) 1998 ZDNet
>
>Privacy and anonymity are our most cherished tenets of online life. A
>need so immense that Marc Rotenberg of the Electronic Privacy
>Information Center declared that we might need a kind of Department of
>Privacy. He's not alone: 72 percent of surfers think there should be new
>laws to protect their privacy. 
>
>It's a radical, 180-degree turn to take, but...what if we're all wrong?
>What if this belief that privacy + anonymity = social good has become as
>self-destructive and delusional as a drunk who thinks one more scotch
>will make him feel better? 
>
>Like Marley's ghost, privacy may be coming back to haunt us. And that
>ghost's name is pedophilia. How bad is it? Disguised as a 13-year-old, I
>was directly propositioned on AOL in fewer than 10 minutes on each of
>six separate attempts. I entered a chat room--usually called something
>like "x9x10x11" or even "JonBenet Ramsey" (code words that alert
>pedophiles where to swarm)--and waited for the assaults to start. 
>
>Even when I didn't enter a chat room, the offers kept coming in from
>pedophiles prowling for victims. One wanted to send me pictures of
>himself. Another asked for a phone number. "I want to do my daughter,"
>one confessed to me. Later, when I searched for their screen names, they
>had all disappeared into the anonymous electronic mist. 
>
>AOL monitors kids' chat rooms continuously. (Parents can also set the
>AOL software so their children can't use chat rooms.) "We have a
>zero-tolerance policy when it comes to anything illegal," assures AOL
>spokeswoman Tricia Primrose. "We have about 8,000 monitors scanning up
>to 19,000 chat rooms, message boards, member profiles, and other areas.
>When we get any kind of complaint, we immediately check it out. And
>we're working with the FBI, customs, and other officials." 
>
>It's not just AOL, of course. Child molesters "operate on every avenue
>of the Net," says PhotonRain (not his real name) of Ethical Hackers
>Against Pedophilia, a group that aids law enforcement in combating child
>pornography. "WWW, newsgroups, IRC, ICQ, FTP servers..." 
>
>We already know it's widespread and easy to encounter. But how often
>have we heard--and parroted--the party line that problems on the Net
>just reflect real-world problems, no more and no less? Holland slays
>that sacred lamb: "The amount of pedophilia on the Net is extremely
>disproportional to...society as a whole. They hide behind the anonymity
>the Net offers. And they are aware of the small odds against being
>caught." 
>
>Ruben Rodriguez, director of the Exploited Child unit for the National
>Center for Missing & Exploited Children (NCMEC), concurs: "The Net is so
>anonymous that molesters are very comfortable on it. They can go in and
>hunt kids down, and attempt five or six seductions at the same time." 
>
>"Let's face it," says a New York State investigator who requests
>anonymity, "the Net's anonymity enables the sickness. In a couple of
>hours I could easily get 2,000 pictures if I wanted, including the Baby
>Rape series," a popular collection of pedophilia photos whose name is
>horrifyingly self-explanatory. 
>
>In recent weeks, U.S. authorities have helped nab 60 online molesters,
>while the FBI reports that its 3-year-old Innocent Images
>investigation--an online task force identifying predators--has resulted
>in 184 convictions. An impressive stat, but less than confidence
>inspiring when research suggests the average child molester will have
>more than 70 victims throughout his lifetime. 
>
>At the same time we splash sex offenders' names online, our lawmakers
>weigh in with proposed privacy law after privacy law. "No one wants to
>give up privacy," says NCMEC's Rodriguez, whose organization now runs a
>CyberTipline for leads on the sexual exploitation of children. "But what
>do you do when your laws and protections are turned against you?
>Something's got to give." 
>
>But what? Our conventional wisdom that privacy is worth any risks? Just
>touching this petrified opinion will get me slapped with a swastika--but
>as philosopher Arthur Schopenhauer said, "All truth passes through three
>stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third,
>it is accepted as being self-evident." 
>
>To be continued--that's for certain. 
>
>Copyright (c) 1998 ZDNet. All rights reserved.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Global Web Builders 
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 19:18:29 -0700 (PDT)
To: (Recipient list suppressed)
Subject: QANTAS discriminates against Pauline Hanson's One Nation
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980623195854.00d302f4@mail.pronet.net.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Dear One Nation supporter in NSW,

Qantas has banned coverage of Pauline Hanson and One Nation from inflight news.

Qantas has effectively censored Channel 9's inflight coverage of Australian
news and has, in effect, implied that there is something "distasteful" about
Mrs Hanson and her political party.

The action allegedly follows a complaint by a QANTAS staff member about
coverage of Mrs Hanson being offensive to Indonesian passengers on an
international flight.

Pauline Hanson's political adviser, Mr David Oldfield, said it was
"disgraceful, un-Australian activity asking Channel 9 to be political
censors on behalf of Qantas.

"Everything that is said publicly, people should have the right to judge for
themselves whether something matters or doesn't," he said.

"But it certainly isn't up to any airline or anyone else to decide that
legitimate
public debate isn't to be viewed."

If you feel rightfully outraged by this act of censorship by Qantas (the
Australian Airline) please contact them by email:

qantasmedia@qantas.com.au 

I would encourage you to take a moment to express how you feel about this issue.

Finally, please note Ansett have not undertaken censorship of this sort.

GWB




Scott Balson





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 07:16:59 -0700 (PDT)
To: james@wired.com
Subject: nation's most secretive spy agency
Message-ID: <35910972.913@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Wednesday 6/24/98 8:03 AM

Glave

I am reading http://www.wired.com/news/news/technology/story/13215.html

I recevied a motion from US Assistant Attorney Mitchell yesterday
in the mail.  I haven't read it yet.

Mitchell phoned on f 6/19.  

Mitchell told me she is moving to remand FOIA ALGORITHM request to NSA.

I made a copy of the materials I received and sent them to John Young.

I attach a copy of Morales and my complaint to the senate judiciary
committee.  This e-mail explains more about our interest in NSA.
VISIBILITY.

I do not have much interest in crypto.

One of my problems is a REVERSE cyrpto problem.  Trying to get people to
read
my geek books and obscure binary results.

I MERELY BUILT CRYPTO DEVICES FOR NSA.  

And took a poke at NSA for trying to screw-up Sandia/DOE projects with
bad crypto algorithm and implementation advice. 
http://jya.com/da/whpda.htm
Especially in http://jya.com/da/whpda.htm#apps

NSA has NO SENSE OF HUMOR.

Pseudorandom numbers are close enough to crypto that I understand what
the crypto people are doing.

Morales and I want our money and out of this mess.

Best

Sincerely

http://www.apcatalog.com/cgi-bin/AP?ISBN=0125475705&LOCATION=US&FORM=FORM2

Looks like we succeeded in getting others to read about the gfsr!

In fact, Knuth included the gfsr on page 32 of his books series Art of 
Computer Programming: Vol 2 Seminumerical algorithms.

This likely accounts for 

http://www-hto.usc.edu/software/seqaln/doc/html/gfsr.3.html

Coauthor Lewis in the above is one of my former MS and PhD students in
computer science.

http://www.friction-free-economy.com/


Subject: 
        Judicial Misconduct at Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals
  Date: 
        Mon, 22 Jun 1998 13:29:01 -0600
  From: 
        bill payne 
    To: 
        art morales , senator_hatch@Hatch.senate.gov, senator@thurmond.senate.gov,
        chuck_grassley@grassley.senate.gov, senator_specter@specter.senate.gov, 
senator_thompson@thompson.senate.gov,
        info@kyl.senate.gov, senator_dewine@dewine.senate.gov, john_ashcroft@ashcroft.senate.gov, 
michigan@abraham.senate.gov,
        senator_leahy@leahy.senate.gov, senator@kennedy.senate.gov, senator@biden.senate.gov, 
senator_kohl@kohl.senate.gov,
        senator@feinstein.senate.gov, russell_feingold@feingold.senate.gov, dick@durbin.senate.gov, 
senator@torricelli.senate.gov
    CC: 
        steve dillingham <" Steven.Dillingham"@hq.doe.gov>, Robert Nordhaus <" 
Robert.Nordhaus"@hq.doe.gov>, mrgall@ix.netcom.com,
        jy@jya.com, art morales , federico pena <" Federico.F.Pena"@hq.doe.gov>, 
RJPARK@sandia.gov,
        cypherpunks@toad.com, ukcrypto@maillist.ox.ac.uk


Monday 6/22/98 1:02 PM

Senate Judiciary Committee
http://www.senate.gov/committee/judiciary.html

Republicans

Orrin G. Hatch, Utah, Chairman   senator_hatch@Hatch.senate.gov
Strom Thurmond, South Carolina   senator@thurmond.senate.gov
Charles E. Grassley, Iowa   chuck_grassley@grassley.senate.gov
Arlen Specter, Pennsylvania   senator_specter@specter.senate.gov
Fred Thompson, Tennessee   senator_thompson@thompson.senate.gov
Jon Kyl, Arizona   info@kyl.senate.gov
Mike DeWine, Ohio   senator_dewine@dewine.senate.gov
John Ashcroft, Missouri   john_ashcroft@ashcroft.senate.gov
Spencer Abraham, Michigan   michigan@abraham.senate.gov
Jeff Sessions, Alabama

Democrats

Patrick J. Leahy, Vermont   senator_leahy@leahy.senate.gov
Edward M. Kennedy, Massachusetts   senator@kennedy.senate.gov
Joseph R.Biden, Jr., Delaware   senator@biden.senate.gov
Herb Kohl, Wisconsin   senator_kohl@kohl.senate.gov
Dianne Feinstein, California   senator@feinstein.senate.gov
Russell D. Feingold, Wisconsin   russell_feingold@feingold.senate.gov
Richard Durbin, Illinois   dick@durbin.senate.gov
Robert Torricelli, New Jersey   senator@torricelli.senate.gov

Purpose of this e-mail is to give written proof of criminal judicial
misconduct by Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals clerks Hoecker, Fisher, and
Judges Moore, Barrett, Weis and help get this matter settled.

Thursday March 30, 1995 I wrote Tenth Circuit clerk Hoecker to request a
copy of the docket sheets for case 94-2205  Payne v. Sandia Corporation,
et al

Hoecker did not answer my letter.

On Tuesday March 5,1996 I  wrote  Judge Lucius D. Bunton to ask his help
to get a copy of the docket sheets.  No response.

On Monday September 23, 1996 Arthur R Morales and I wrote  Henry A.
Politz, Chief Judge U.S. Court of Appeals - Fifth Circuit to ask his
help to get a copy of the docket sheets of my case and Morales' Tenth
Circuit case 95-2204.

Tenth Circuit also refused to send Morales copies of docket sheets for
his case.

Politz is Bunton's boss.  No response.

Friday May 30, 1997 I wrote Antonin Scalia to get this help to get a
copy of the docket sheets.  No response.

5 May 1998 citizen John Young finds docket sheets on

    Source: PACER, U.S. Court of Appeals, 10th Circuit, 1-800-279-9107

and posts them on Internet at http://jya.com/whp-10usca.htm

  Docket as of April 10, 1998 0:05 am
  Proceedings include all events.
  94-2205  Payne v. Sandia Corporation, et al

shows that I filed my Brief of the Appellant on 2/19/95.

2/23/95     [835344] Appellant's brief filed by William H. Payne.
            Original and 7 copies.   c/s: y. Served on 2/19/95  Oral
            argument? pro se. Appellee/Respondent's brief due 3/24/95
            for Thomas P. Wright, for Robert Surran, for Paul A.
            Stokes, for Mary J. Stang, for Tommy A. Sellers, for Craig
            A. Searls, for Albert Narath, for Preston B. Herrington,
            for Peter S. Hamilton, for Roger L. Hagengruber, for James
            R. Gosler, for Harold L. Folley, for Robert L. Ewing, for
            C. William Childers, for Harvey J. Brewster, for Sandia
            Corporation (mbm)

mbm writes "Appellee/Respondent's brief due 3/24/95"

Sandia had sent me a copy of its brief by 3/28/96.

I filed  attached MOTION TO GRANT PLAINTIFF-APPELLANT'S DEMANDS ON BASIS
THAT DEFENDANT-APPELLEES FAILED TO FILE BRIEF WITHIN 30 DAYS SPECIFIED
BY FEDERAL RULE OF APPELLATE PROCEDURE 31 on Tuesday the 28th day of
March, 1995

My February 28 MOTION at the Tenth Circuit is filed WITHOUT notice of
service logged.

4/4/95       [845484] Appellant's motion filed by Appellant William H.
             Payne [94-2205] to grant appellant's demands on basis that
             appellees' failed to file timely brief. Original and 3
             copies  c/s: y (mbm)

In 1995 FRAP 25 (a) stated  "[b]riefs shall be deemed filed on the day
of mailing if the 
most expeditious form of delivery by mail, excepting special delivery,
is used."

FRAP 25 has been changed by 1998 to
http://www.ca5.uscourts.gov/docs/frap-iop.htm#25a

Since I mailed Appellant's motion filed by Appellant William H.  Payne
[94-2205] to grant appellant's demands on basis that appellees' failed
to file timely brief on 3/28/98, it is likely Sandia's lawyer Friedman
received it 3/29/95.

Tenth Circuit logs

3/30/95      [844759] Appellee's brief filed by Sandia Corporation,
             Harvey J. Brewster, C. William Childers, Robert L. Ewing,
             Harold L. Folley, James R. Gosler, Roger L. Hagengruber,
             Peter S. Hamilton, Preston B. Herrington, Albert Narath,
             Craig A. Searls, Tommy A. Sellers, Mary J. Stang, Paul A.
             Stokes, Robert Surran, Thomas P. Wright. Original and 7
             copies. c/s: y. Served on 3/27/95  Oral Argument? y
             (appellant is pro se) Appellant's optional reply brief due
             4/13/95 for William H. Payne (mbm)

Federal Rule of Appellate Procedure [FRAP] 26 (c) states

  (c) Additional Time after Service. When a party is required or
permitted to act within a      prescribed period after service of a
paper upon that party, 3 calendar days are added to the     prescribed
period unless the paper is delivered on the date of service stated in
the proof of   service. 

  http://www.ca5.uscourts.gov/docs/frap-iop.htm#26c

While the Tenth Circuit ASSERTS Appellees' brief was, in fact, served on
3/27/95
evidence given below points to the brief  was served, in fact, on
3/29/95.  

I allege that Friedman affixed a false date of service to Sandia's
brief.

I WAS NEVER PROPERLY SERVED.  I wrote

          Wednesday March 29, 1995

          Dan Friedman
          Simons, Cuddy & Friedman
          Pecos Trail Office Compound
          1701 Old Pecos Trail
          POB 4160
          Santa Fe, NM 87502-4160
          505-988-4476
          505-984-1807 FAX

          Dear Lawyer Friedman:

          Today at 14:00 hours I found a green and white about 9x13
          inch envelope in our mail box at my home.

          Mailing label indicated that the envelope came from your
          firm.  CONFIDENTIAL was stamped on the mailing label.

          I  wrote "Received at 14:00 hours on W 3/29/95 with no
          POSTMARK OR STAMP by W. H. Payne" at the bottom of the
          envelope.

          There was no STAMP OR POSTAGE METER LABEL or 
          POSTMARK on the envelope.

          Therefore, I gave the envelope to US Postal Service
          supervisor Mel at 14:49 hours today at the Postal Receiving
          station at 9904 Montgomery, NW in Albuquerque.  Mel has a
          copy of the cover of the envelope with Mel's note written on
          it.

          Mel told me the post office was going to return the envelope
          to your firm for proper mailing.

          I ask:

         1    What did this envelope contain?  Please identify
              the documents precisely.

         2    If any Certificates of Service were included in the
              envelope, then what were the dates affixed to these
              documents?

         3    Who placed this envelope in our mail box?

         Lawyer Friedman:  It appears you missed an important filing
         date.  And are in the process of attempt to correct your
         failure.  But may be using illegitimate methods to conceal
         your failure.

         Please respond as soon as possible so that we all may
         discover what has happened here." ...

Lawyer Friedman did not respond to the above letter.

But Friedman did mail me Appellees' brief many days later in envelope
showing TRUE MAILING date.  Certificate of service on received
Appellees' brief
did not reflect postmark date.

10th Cir. R. 25.4 in 1995 page 62 reads
  
  Papers not accepted for filing. -- The clerk shall not file papers
that do not comply
  with the Federal Rules of Appellate Procedure and these rules See
10thCir. R. 42.1

But Tenth Circuit clerks Fisher and Hoecker despite my protests and
submission of
evidence may have stamped FILED on Sandia's IMPROPERLY SERVED 
Appellee/Respondent's brief according to the Federal Rules of Appellate
Procedure.

Laywer Friedman FALSIFIED THE CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE.   

Friedman DID NOT MAIL ME "Served on 3/27/95."

d) Proof of Service; Filing. A paper presented for filing shall contain
an acknowledgment of service by the   person served or proof of service
in the form of a statement of the date and manner of service, of the
name of the person served, and of the addresses to which the papers were
mailed or at which they were delivered, certified by the person who made
service. Proof of service may appear on or be affixed to the papers
filed. When a brief or appendix is filed by mailing or dispatch in
accordance with Rule 25(a)(2)(B), the proof of service shall also state
the date and manner by which the document was mailed or dispatched to
the clerk.

  http://www.ca5.uscourts.gov/docs/frap-iop.htm#25a
  
Crime apparently committed by Hoecker and Fisher is

§ 1017. Government seals wrongfully used and instruments wrongfully
sealed 

Whoever fraudulently or wrongfully affixes or impresses the seal of any
department or agency of the United States, to or upon any certificate,
instrument, commission, document, or paper or with knowledge of its
fraudulent character, with wrongful or fraudulent intent, uses, buys,
procures, sells, or transfers to another any such certificate,
instrument, commission, document, or paper, to which or upon which said
seal has been so fraudulently affixed or impressed, shall be fined under
this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both. 
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/1017.shtml

Despite my protests of judicial misconduct Judges Moore, Barrett, Weis
award decision to Sandia

10/6/95      [890055] Order filed by Judges Moore, Barrett, Weis
             "...All outstanding motions are denied..." (found in Order
             & Judgment of 10/6/95) [879579-1]  Parties served by mail.
             (pdw)

when these judges should not have had Appellees' brief before them.

Then in an apparently attempt to conceal what happened

10/6/95     [890076]  NOTE: THIS ENTIRE CASE IS SEALED. Terminated on
            the Merits after Submission Without Oral Hearing; Judgment
            Affirmed; Written, Signed, Unpublished. Moore, authoring
            judge; Barrett; Weis. [94-2205] (pdw)

I WON MY APPEAL, pro se, ON A TECHNICALITY but judges Judges Moore,
Barrett, Weis
awarded the win to Sandia Labs!

Members of Congress, judicial misconduct in this matter has been
well-documented.  Court records
filed with the Tenth Circuit.  But CURRENTLY under seal.

Lawyers involved in this matter attempt to use the legal strategy of
IGNORE and STONEWALL to
attempt to deny me justice.  

Ignoring and stonewalling by lawyers forced Morales and me to seek
visibility so lawyers
could no longer ignore and stonewall.

Lawyer attitude apparently is that they ignore rules of civil procedure
or even the law so long
as their actions are invisible to public scrutiny.

Visibility was achieved by suing the National Security Agency which
revealed even more judicial misconduct http://www.jya.com/whp052898.htm.

I would like to settle all  matters involved with this unfortunate
cyrpto-related matter,
which includes criminal violations of the Privacy Act.

DOE lawyer Steve Dillingham asked me to prepare a settlement offer in
1994.  I wrote a
settlement letter  May 22, 1994 to Dillingham.  Nothing happened.

June 11, 1998 I made several modifications to my 1994 settlement letter
and sent it e-mail
to Robert Nordhaus, Chief Counsel, DOE.

I ask that you

1  help with settlement of my six-year-old since I won my appeal at the
Tenth Circuit,
2  investigate Tenth Circuit case 94-2205  Payne v. Sandia Corporation,
et al to bring
   the guilty to justice.

Sincerely

william payne

505 292 7037  I am not reading e-mail

http://jya.com/whpfiles.htm
http://www.apcatalog.com/cgi-bin/AP?ISBN=0125475705&LOCATION=US&FORM=FORM2
http://www-hto.usc.edu/software/seqaln/doc/html/gfsr.3.html

Coauthor Lewis in the above is one of my former MS and PhD students in
computer science.

http://www.friction-free-economy.com/



Monday 6/22/98 1:04 PM

Members of Congress

Purpose of this e-mail is to give written proof of criminal judicial
misconduct by Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals clerks Hoecker, Fisher, and
Judges Anderson, Barrett, Logan and request a congressional
investigation.

After several years, with Payne, of trying to get Tenth Circuit to send
docket sheets from my case,
citizen John Young  http://www.jya.com/index.htm  locates docket sheets
and posts them
    
  Morales Case Dockets 10th USCA                    June 12, 1998

on Internet at http://www.jya.com/arm061298.htm.

  Source: Online records Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals via PACER 

  GENERAL DOCKET FOR
  Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals

  Court of Appeals Docket #: 95-2204                           Filed:
9/29/95
  Nsuit: 3440
  Morales v. Sandia National Lab.
  Appeal from: United States District Court for the District of New
Mexico

I filed

11/9/95     [898274] Appellant's brief filed by Arthur R. Morales.
            Original and 2 copies.   c/s: y. Served on 11/7/95.  Oral
            argument? pro se. Appellee's brief due 12/11/95 for Sandia
            National Lab. (pdw)

Sandia files its FIRST ATTEMPT at

12/11/95   [905033] Appellee's deficient brief filed by Sandia
           National Lab.. Appellee's corrected brief due 12/21/95 for
           Sandia National Lab.  additional copies received 12/11/95.
           (fg)

Tenth Circuit court clerk Patrick Fisher writes Wells on December 11,
1995
concerning Sandia's deficient brief

  [C]orrections, however made, must be accompanied by proof of service
  upon all other parties to the appeal. ...

and issues

12/14/95   [905975] FIRST notice of rules violation for Deborah D.
           Wells for Appellee Sandia National Lab. (sls)

Wells submits

12/21/95    [907974] Appellee's brief filed by Sandia National Lab..
            Original and 7 copies.   c/s: y. Served on 12/20/95  Oral
            Argument? n Appellant's optional reply brief due 1/8/96 for
            Arthur R. Morales (mbm)

but DOES NOT serve me with a copy.

Wells later admits in

2/1/96        [917660] Response filed by Sandia National Lab.
              Appellant/Petitioner motion to clarify   Original and 3
              copies.  c/s: y response Null Relief Code (fg)

Certificate of Service date 30th day of January, 1996,

  [h]ad Appellant simply made a phone call to the Tenth Circuit, he
could
  have established that the Defendant-Appellee's corrected brief was
indeed
  filed on a timely basis, ...

I protested by filing

1/3/96       [909965] Appellant's motion "for the Court to Grant
             Appeal" filed by Appellant Arthur R. Morales [95-2204].
             Original and 3 copies.  c/s: y. (pdw)

1/3/96       [909966] Appellant's motion "for New Trial" filed by
             Appellant Arthur R. Morales [95-2204]. Original and 3
             copies.  c/s: y. (pdw)

1/3/96       [909967] Appellant's motion "to Discipline
             Defendant-Appellee" filed by Appellant Arthur R. Morales
             [95-2204]. Original and 3 copies.  c/s: y. (pdw)

because Sandia did not properly serve me in violation of Fisher's
December
11, 1995 order.

The Tenth Circuit court of appeals should NOT, by its own rules, filed
Appellee's brief filed by Sandia National Lab..  Original and 7
copies.   
c/s: y. Served on 12/20/95

10th Cir. R. 25.4 in 1995 page 62 reads
  
  Papers not accepted for filing. -- The clerk shall not file papers
that do not comply
  with the Federal Rules of Appellate Procedure and these rules See
10thCir. R. 42.1

And is doubtful whether court clerk Fisher had any authority under
appellate procedure
to permit Wells to correct her deficient brief.  

Rather Sandia's  brief did not comply with with Federal Rules of
Appellate Procedure and should have been summarily rejected for filing.

I WON, pro se, my appeal to the Tenth circuit on a technicality but
Judges Anderson, Barrett, Logan
awarded the win to Sandia Labs.

4/2/96        [932848] Order filed by Judges Anderson, Barrett, Logan
              denying parties' motions for general relief(found in Order
              and Judgment of 4/2/96)--"...During the course of this
              appeal, the parties have filed various motions for
              dismissal, summary grant, and sanctions. We find no merit
              to any of these motions, and they are [920851-1] Parties
              served by mail. (pdw)

by accepting and judging on a documents which was not permitted to be
before the court by
its own rules.

Judicial misconduct in my case has been well-documented as it is in
Payne's case.

Payne and I speculate that similar judicial misconduct may have occurred
at the Tenth Circuit.

Sandia lawyer Robert J Park wrote me a settlement letter on Feb 18,
1998.

I filled in the blanks and made minor handwritten chages and returned it
on February 22, 1998.  

But my offer has not yet been accepted.

I ask that you

1  help have my settlement offer accepted,
2  investigate judicial misconduct in case 95-2204 and punish the
guilty.

Some citizens can only express such frustrations with the US court
system with violence.

I seek change by legal reform.

Sincerely

Arthur R Morales
505 345 1381



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ernest Hua 
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 09:35:21 -0700 (PDT)
To: cryptography@c2.org>
Subject: OCR'ed versions of Skipjack docs
Message-ID: <413AC08141DBD011A58000A0C924A6D52C357C@MVS2>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Anyone have an OCR'ed version of this?  These PDF's look like scanned or
faxed images.

Ern

	-----Original Message-----
	From:	John Young [SMTP:jya@pipeline.com]
	Sent:	Wednesday, June 24, 1998 6:53 AM
	To:	cypherpunks@toad.com
	Subject:	Skipjack Up


	John,

	The files are up, and hopefully all working OK.  See


	http://csrc.nist.gov/encryption/skipjack-kea.htm

	Ed Roback





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 06:56:40 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Skipjack Up
Message-ID: <199806241356.JAA30765@camel8.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


John,

The files are up, and hopefully all working OK.  See


http://csrc.nist.gov/encryption/skipjack-kea.htm

Ed Roback






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: CustomNews@INTMAIL.TURNER.COM
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 07:36:53 -0700 (PDT)
To: TEXTCUSTOMNEWSUPDATE@CNNIMAIL1.CNN.COM
Subject: New Features @ CNN Custom News
Message-ID: <199806241410.KAA11366@belize>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Jean-Francois Avon" 
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 07:46:39 -0700 (PDT)
To: "Cypherpunks" 
Subject: Fwd: Re: Banning privacy: A radical proposal
Message-ID: <199806241458.KAA01546@cti06.citenet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


==================BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE==================
>From: "Jean-Francois Avon" 
>To: "William H. Geiger III" 
>Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 10:38:12 -0500
>Reply-To: "Jean-Francois Avon" 
>Priority: Normal
>X-Mailer: PMMail 98 Standard (2.00.1500) For Windows 95 (4.0.1111)
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>Subject: Re: Banning privacy: A radical proposal
>

On Wed, 24 Jun 1998 00:38:06 -0500, William H. Geiger III wrote:

>
>And if they really want to save some children why don't they shut down the
>multi-billion dollar infanticide industry known as abortion. Why are these
>medical hacks allowed to do to children what they would be jailed for
>doing to a dog? Perhaps because it serves nicely with the elitist goals of
>population control (need to keep the number of niggers, bean pickers, and
>white trash down to a controllable number) not to mention that their
>pockets are well lined by the hacks.

Hey William, that's called "woman freedom to choose".  Woman right precedes the
baby-that-might-be rights for she is the sine-qua-none condition for the baby-who-might-be
to
exist.

But it is only *very* rarely that I disagree with you...  ;-)

Ciao

jfa

Definition:  FACISM: n.:  a political and economic movement, strongly nationalistic,
magnifying the rights of the state as opposed to those of the individual, in which
industry, though remaining largely under private ownership, and all administrative
political units, are controlled by a strong central government.
        -------------------------------------------------
"One of the ordinary modes by which tyrants accomplish their purpose, without resistance,
is by disarming the people and making it an offense to keep arms".  - Joseph Story, U.S.
Supreme Court Justice.
        -------------------------------------------------
"1935 will go down in history! For the first time a civilized nation has full gun
registration! Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will
follow our lead in the future!"
					-Adolf Hitler, April 1935
        -------------------------------------------------

PGP keys: http://bs.mit.edu:8001/pks-toplev.html
PGP ID:C58ADD0D:529645E8205A8A5E F87CC86FAEFEF891
PGP ID:5B51964D:152ACCBCD4A481B0 254011193237822C



===================END FORWARDED MESSAGE===================


Jean-Francois Avon, B.Sc. Physics, Montreal, Canada
  DePompadour, Société d'Importation Ltée
     Limoges fine porcelain and french crystal
  JFA Technologies, R&D physicists & engineers
     Instrumentation & control, LabView programming
PGP keys: http://bs.mit.edu:8001/pks-toplev.html
PGP ID:C58ADD0D:529645E8205A8A5E F87CC86FAEFEF891
PGP ID:5B51964D:152ACCBCD4A481B0 254011193237822C






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bruce Schneier 
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 10:33:31 -0700 (PDT)
To: advancedinfo@email.msn.com
Subject: Comments on "Encryption is Key to Securing Data" 22 Jun 98
Message-ID: <4.0.1.19980624120317.00e447b0@mail.visi.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


This note is to comment on your article,  "Encryption is Key to Securing Data," that appeared in the 22 Jun 98 issue of InternetWeek.  I'm not sure where to start.  Almost every statement made in the copy is erroneous.  (There was an error when I tried to download the article from your website, so I will retype.  Apologies for minor typos.)

Encryption is Key to Securing Data
by Dayna DelMonico

"Although encryption terminology can make even the most technically astute user cringe, encryption is fairly simple."  

I agree, although the rest of this article seems to prove me wrong.  

"It's the process of scambling and unscrambling information."

Partly.  It's confidentially (what you said above--making sure secret things stay secret), integrity (making sure data doesn't get modified in transit), authentication (the digital analogue of a signature), and non-repudiation (making sure someone can't say something and then later deny saying it).  Cryptography is a lot more than simple encryption.

"Encryption products showed up when MIS managers adopted two basic encryption technologies from the federal government: private and public-key encryption."

Nothing correct here.  The Federal government has no public-key cryptography standards; MIS managers have nothing to adopt from the Federal government.  You might be thinking of DES, a symmetric encryption algorithm.  (More on this confusion below.)  In any case, commercial use of cryptography products has developed completely independently from government interference.  In fact, things like export control and key escrow are making it harder to buy secure commercial products, not easier.

"With private key encryption, the sends and recieve are the holders and use the same key (algorithm) to secure information."

No.  First off, private-key encryption is a bad term; use "symmetric encryption."  Second, I'm not sure what they are the holders of.  With symmetric encryption, both the sender and the receiver must have the same key; that may be what you mean.  In any case, the key and the algorithm are completely seperate.  This is one of the cornerstones of post-Medieval cryptography.

"With public key encryption, senders and receivers hold a commonly used public key, with an additional private key held only by specific institutions."

Not even close.  With public-key encryption, each receiver has a public key and a private key.  The public key is published.  The private key is held, in secret, by the receiver.  To send a message to someone, the sender gets the public key form some public database and uses it to encrypt the message.  The receiver uses his private key to decrypt it.  There are no specific institutions that have additional private keys, unless you are thinking about key escrow systems (which are related, but not the same).

"To protect systems from the loss of the key, many vendors offer assymetric encypion, which uses two keys."

Sort of.  Assymetric encryption is the same as public-key encryption (just another word), and there are two keys.  But the reason for using public-key encryption is not to prevent the loss of a key, but to facilitate key management.  (With symmetric encryption, both the sender and receiver have to share a key.  How this sharing takes place can be very complicated.)

"Users can choose from products based on various schemes.  Beware, however, that even stronger encryption methods are on the horizon and destined for the next generation of encryption products.  The National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) is expected to complete and Advanced Encryption Standard (AES) by the end of the year."

Even NIST has said that AES will not be finalized before 2000.  And AES is just a new symmetric algorithm; it has nothing to do with public-key cryptography.

"The new standard wil luse a 128-bit block size, with key lengths of 128-, 192-, and 256-bits, as opposed to the current 64-bit blocks with 56-bit key standard."

True.  The current standard is DES.

"RSA Data Security also has proposed its own algorithm to content for the new AES standard."

Sort of.  NIST has solicited proposals for algorithms.  Fifteen groups submitted, including RSA Data Security.  RSADSI is competing with other groups--Cylink, IBM, Entrust, Counterpane Systems, NTT, etc--not with NIST.  NIST does not hav an algorithm.

"RSA's extensions to DES, RC4 and RC5 implement multiple keys as well as digital signatures."

Many mistakes here.  RSADSI submitted RC6 to the AES process, which uses many ideas from RC5.  It has nothing to do with DES or RC4.  I'm not sure why multiple keys is something to talk about; as I said above, every algorithm post the Middle Ages uses multiple keys.  And digital signatures have nothing to do with the AES process.  AES is a  new symmetric encryption algorithm; digital signatures are done with public key cryptography.  They are different.

"Another contender is Blowfish II."

I submitted this algorithm.  We called it Twofish, but some early press reports called it Blowfish II.

"The Blowfish scheme, often referred to as PGP (Pretty Good Privacy), lets the sending and receiving computers negotiate a complex number."

First, Blowfish is never referred to as PGP.  Blowfish is a symmetric encryption algorithm.  PGP is an email security product.  PGP could have decided to use Blowfish, but it used IDEA and CAST instead.  Those are two different encrytpion algorithms.  And neither PGP, nor Blowfish, nor anything else discussed to or alluded to in this article, involve sending and receiving computers negotiating complex numbers.

"That number is used to scamble the transmission and unscramble the data that is received."

What you mean to say, I think, is that PGP uses public-key cryptography for key exchange.  The sender uses the reciver's public key to encrypt a session key, and that session key is used to encrypt the email message.

"For more on encryption and encryption products, a buyer's first stop should be the International Computer Security Association.  This ICSA is an independent organization that tests and certifies security products."

ICSA is a private for-profit company, despite what the name implies.  And while they do do some testing and certifying of security products, they do not test or certify encryption products.

Honestly, I can't believe this article made it into print.  Don't you have editors?

Bruce Schneier
President, Counterpane Systems
Author, Applied Cryptography
http://www.counterpane.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: CTIA Daily News 
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 10:50:36 -0700 (PDT)
To: CTIA Daily News 
Subject: CTIA Daily News from WOW-COM - June 24, 1998
Message-ID: <199806241728.MAA10305@revnet4.revnet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



=====================================

Welcome to today's edition of the CTIA Daily News
from WOW-COM.  Please click on the icon for the
most important news in wireless communications today.

CALEA Summit being held July 21 & 22 in Washington, DC.
Register Now!!  Call (202) 785-0081

=====================================


From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: attila 
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 05:50:19 -0700 (PDT)
To: "William H. Geiger III" 
Subject: abortion [was: Banning privacy: A radical proposal]
In-Reply-To: <199806240806.DAA022.63@geiger.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Wed, 24 Jun 1998, William H. Geiger III wrote:

> And if they really want to save some children why don't they shut down the
> multi-billion dollar infanticide industry known as abortion. Why are these
> medical hacks allowed to do to children what they would be jailed for
> doing to a dog? Perhaps because it serves nicely with the elitist goals of
> population control (need to keep the number of niggers, bean pickers, and
> white trash down to a controllable number) not to mention that their
> pockets are well lined by the hacks.
> 
    no, abortion does not serve the interests of limiting the
    "undesirables" to meet elitist population control ideas.  quite
    the opposite --the various machinations of the extremeist
    conservative [bowel] movement and depriving of abortion funds 
    has meant that abortion is available only to the haves. same
    result in U.S. foreign policy which excludes not only abortion
    services from foreign aid disbursement, but also birth control.

    so, the population of "bean pickers, niggers, and white trash"
    increases relative to the desired "white" population --rather
    dramatically --"elitist" families have negative population
    growth; several of the others have factors as high as 300%.

    personally, I am against abortion-- however, I'll be damned if
    I would deny anyone else either the right or the means to make
    that personal decision. it is not a question of morality; it is
    a fundamental right to freedom of choice unencumbered by an
    increasingly invasive federal government --the first Bitch can
    take her Global Village into her house, not mine.

	attila out...

__________________________________________________________________________
    go not unto usenet for advice, for the inhabitants thereof will say:
      yes, and no, and maybe, and I don't know, and fuck-off.
_________________________________________________________________ attila__

    To be a ruler of men, you need at least 12 inches....
    There is no safety this side of the grave.  Never was; never will be.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Xcott Craver 
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 10:53:51 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Banning privacy: A radical proposal
In-Reply-To: <19980624011241.15925.qmail@hades.rpini.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On 24 Jun 1998, Anonymous wrote:

> This came from Yahoo/ZDNet. Mr. Pappas suggests that we just ban anonymity
> and privacy to "protect the children." Now where have I heard that before?
> And yet again, the "Ethical Hackers Against Pedophilia" raise their heads,
> no pun intended.

	Thanks for the info.  Maybe some merry band of pranksters
	would be willing to sneak into this guy's house and install
	an obvious-looking mock camera over his shower head?  I mean,
	just in case he's a child molester and all.

	Maybe once we're done legislating the internet, we can
	legislate the topolology of Euclidean space, so that every
	point is within earshot of a mike and eyeshot of a camera.
	After all, those evil child molesting evil bad evil people
	might take to doing evil stuff in their basement, or the
	nearby woods!

==-  Xcott Craver -- Caj@niu.edu -- http://www.math.niu.edu/~caj/  -==
"Also note that elecronagnetic theory proves that if you microwave a
 bar of Ivory soap it turns into a REAL MARSHMALLOW THAT YOU CAN EAT."
                                                   -James "Kibo" Parry





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: attila 
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 09:11:11 -0700 (PDT)
To: Jean-Francois Avon 
Subject: Re: Banning privacy: A radical proposal
In-Reply-To: <199806241458.KAA01546@cti06.citenet.net>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Wed, 24 Jun 1998, Jean-Francois Avon wrote:

> On Wed, 24 Jun 1998 00:38:06 -0500, William H. Geiger III wrote:
> 
> >And if they really want to save some children why don't they shut down the
> >multi-billion dollar infanticide industry known as abortion. Why are these
> >medical hacks allowed to do to children what they would be jailed for
> >doing to a dog? Perhaps because it serves nicely with the elitist goals of
> >population control (need to keep the number of niggers, bean pickers, and
> >white trash down to a controllable number) not to mention that their
> >pockets are well lined by the hacks.
> 
> Hey William, that's called "woman freedom to choose".  Woman right precedes the 
> baby-that-might-be rights for she is the sine-qua-none condition for the baby-who-might-be 
> to exist.
>
    as I said, I am personally against abortion, but your point is
    absolutely correct: it is "the freedom to chose" on the part of
    the woman who must carry the _potential_ child to term  --and,
    yes, the woman is the 'sine qua non' condition.

    what the absolutists in the Right to Life movements do not
    understand, and refuse to accept, is that they have _no_ God
    given right to tell another what they can or can not do that
    does not _directly_ infringe on their own rights; as a
    consequence, the fanatics believe they have the God given
    right to legislate morality --and then there are back alley
    coat hanger abortions where the nascent mother is placed
    at an unacceptable risk.

    and, there is nothing sadder than an unwanted, often fatherless, 
    child.

	attila out...

and you better believe the following are indisputable truths....

> Definition:  FACISM: n.:  a political and economic movement, strongly nationalistic, 
> magnifying the rights of the state as opposed to those of the individual, in which 
> industry, though remaining largely under private ownership, and all administrative
> political units, are controlled by a strong central government.
>         -------------------------------------------------
> "One of the ordinary modes by which tyrants accomplish their purpose, without resistance, 
> is by disarming the people and making it an offense to keep arms".  - Joseph Story, U.S. 
> Supreme Court Justice.
>         -------------------------------------------------
> "1935 will go down in history! For the first time a civilized nation has full gun 
> registration! Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will 
> follow our lead in the future!"  
> 					-Adolf Hitler, April 1935
>         -------------------------------------------------
__________________________________________________________________________
    go not unto usenet for advice, for the inhabitants thereof will say:
      yes, and no, and maybe, and I don't know, and fuck-off.
_________________________________________________________________ attila__

    To be a ruler of men, you need at least 12 inches....
    There is no safety this side of the grave.  Never was; never will be.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 16:49:02 -0700 (PDT)
To: attila 
Subject: Re: Banning privacy: A radical proposal
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199806242352.SAA029.59@geiger.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In , on 06/24/98 
   at 11:10 AM, attila  said:

>> Hey William, that's called "woman freedom to choose".  Woman right precedes the 
>> baby-that-might-be rights for she is the sine-qua-none condition for the baby-who-might-be 
>> to exist.
>>
>    as I said, I am personally against abortion, but your point is
>    absolutely correct: it is "the freedom to chose" on the part of
>    the woman who must carry the _potential_ child to term  --and,
>    yes, the woman is the 'sine qua non' condition.

The woman made her choice when her legs went up in the air. Because she
does not wish to be inconvenienced by the consequences of her actions does
not give here the right to commit murder.


>    what the absolutists in the Right to Life movements do not
>    understand, and refuse to accept, is that they have _no_ God
>    given right to tell another what they can or can not do that
>    does not _directly_ infringe on their own rights; as a
>    consequence, the fanatics believe they have the God given
>    right to legislate morality --and then there are back alley
>    coat hanger abortions where the nascent mother is placed
>    at an unacceptable risk.

Bunk, their are numerous laws that tell others what they can or can not
do. It is illegal to steal, it is illegal to commit murder. The fact they
you may be stealing from someone else or trying to kill someone else does
not make it any less illegal (and immoral). Every human has basics rights;
the right to life being the cornerstone of those rights.

I think it quite acceptable for someone to incur risks while in the act of
commiting murder up to and including their own death. As far as the
practitioners of murderer for profit they are no better than the Nazi's
gassing the Jews.

>    and, there is nothing sadder than an unwanted, often fatherless, 
>    child.

Yes their is, a dead one. I suggest you talk to some "unwanted",
fatherless children and ask them if they would rather be dead (not to
mention die a quite painful and barbaric death). I think you will find
that few of them share your opinions on the matter.

 I really didn't want this to turn into an abortion debate. I was
just trying to show the hypocrisy of the "save the children" crowd.

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgp.html
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: This marks Logical End-Of-Message. Physical EOM follows

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: attila 
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 20:19:00 -0700 (PDT)
To: "William H. Geiger III" 
Subject: Re: Banning privacy: A radical proposal
In-Reply-To: <199806242352.SAA029.59@geiger.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Wed, 24 Jun 1998, William H. Geiger III wrote:

>  I really didn't want this to turn into an abortion debate. I was
> just trying to show the hypocrisy of the "save the children" crowd.
> 
    what I said was that I am _personally_ against abortion;  and,
    yes, I _personally_ consider it a offense against our God; but,
    I do not go so far as to say it is murder in the social context; 
    I do believe that is not my privilege to tell another they can
    not commit the sin of "choosing when their legs went in the 
    air"; and, abortion statistics show that the vast majority of
    abortions are for "mistakes" or failure of birth control. keep
    in mind, the extreme right has also been campaigning to
    eliminate the availability of birth control --which then raises
    the abortion rate... and, if you want to shade the argument,
    should all abortion be illegal?  date rape? rape? deformity?
    downs syndrome, bifidia? health of the mother?

    yes, let's drop the subject as there is no solution.  

    few can debate the issue calmly, or even intelligently. I just
    look at abortion as a fact of society that has been with us for
    milleniums; you cant stop it any more than Prohibition was
    successful, or the War on Drugs has been successful.  why does
    the government continue the war on drugs? simple, it's
    profitable for them in many ways (as the largest vendor, if
    nothing else). 

    besides, if we want to have a pissing contest, I am as far right
    as it goes --with one exception: I dont want to change anyone!
    we call it "free-agency" --them that wish to go to Hell, line 
    up on the left! --or dont, if you do not wish to-- the choice
    is yours.

    'nuff said!

	attila out...

___________________________________________________________________
three things I dont tolerate:  crackers, fed stoolies, and toadies.

	





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 04:57:47 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: NSA Declass Query
Message-ID: <199806251157.HAA13191@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Spyrus claims in a press release yesterday that NSA
announced declassification of SKIPJACK and KEA on
June 6, earlier than the DoD notice on June 23. 

Does anyone know where and how NSA made this
earlier announcement, and whether there is a document
on it? We've queried Spyrus but no answer yet.

Spyrus has scheduled a June 30 conference on its release
of a FORTEZZA library and products in connection with
the NSA declassification. Bruce Schneier is a keynote
speaker.


http://www.spyrus.com/company/releases/pr_swf.html








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 07:11:25 -0700 (PDT)
To: colin@nyx.net
Subject: Skipjack SIMULATIONS
Message-ID: <3592598D.1EAE@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

willis@rand.org            http://www.jya.com/skipjack-fi.htm 
Markus.Kuhn@cl.cam.ac.uk   http://www.jya.com/skipjack-uk.htm
perry@piermont.com         http://jya.com/skipjack-pem.txt
mab@research.att.com       http://www.jya.com/skipjack-mab.htm
colin@nyx.net              http://www.jya.com/skipjack-cp.txt

Guys

I looked at your neat, what I would call, SIMULATIONS of the skipjack
algorithm.

I get an uncomfortable feeling in terms of work involved in implementing

/* The permutation G */
#define G(l, r, key, koff) \
        ((l) ^= F[(r) ^ (key)[(koff)%10]],      \
        (r) ^= F[(l) ^ (key)[((koff)+1)%10]],   \
        (l) ^= F[(r) ^ (key)[((koff)+2)%10]],   \
        (r) ^= F[(l) ^ (key)[((koff)+3)%10]])

on, say, an 8051.

NSA gave Sandia similar algorithm SPECIFICATIONS.

I simulated Benincasa's NSS/USO algorithm in Forth to make sure
I THOUGH that I understood it.   And could produce the test vectors.
http://jya.com/da/whpda.htm

In the REAL WORLD at Sandia some of the following considerations
IMMEDIATELY DOMINATE THE ALGORITHM.

1    power budget
2    thermal constraints
3    size limitations
4    conducted and radiated emissions
5    radiation-hard requirements
6    speed requirements
7    memory requirements
8    red/black analysis
9    hardware fault tolerance [DELFAS]
10   implementation work GUESS
11   software technology limitations [Can we use Forth?]
12   ...

I am guessing that putting Skipjack on, say, on a smart card might
involve some hairy engineering.  

NSA KG units Brian Snow showed me were fairly small in size.  Say
about 1-2 inches x  1-2 inches x 5-6 inches.

Shift register crypto technology is much simpler than number-based
crypto technology.  Size, power, scalability, ... are the reasons, I
think, 
that NSA uses shift registers for its GOOD STUFF.

Also, NSA/Sandia had SOME REAL project DISASTERS with number-based
crypto.  Expensive, embarrassing, ...  What ever happened to Sandia's
low- and high-speed public key crypto chips?

I am very pleased to see all of this information getting out so everyone
can look at it.

I may have a project coming up - protecting gas pipeline survey data
from competitors.  I DO NOT plan to TRY TO reinvent a crypto algorithm. 

I will implement someone else's idea.  Good idea from a liability
standpoint too!

Morales and I need to complete our SETTLEMENT PROJECT so that we
can all move on to other CONSTRUCTIVE projects.

Best
bill

http://www.apcatalog.com/cgi-bin/AP?ISBN=0125475705&LOCATION=US&FORM=FORM2

http://www-hto.usc.edu/software/seqaln/doc/html/gfsr.3.html


Subject: 
        Judicial Misconduct at Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals
  Date: 
        Mon, 22 Jun 1998 13:29:01 -0600
  From: 
        bill payne 
    To: 
        art morales , senator_hatch@Hatch.senate.gov, senator@thurmond.senate.gov,
        chuck_grassley@grassley.senate.gov, senator_specter@specter.senate.gov, 
senator_thompson@thompson.senate.gov,
        info@kyl.senate.gov, senator_dewine@dewine.senate.gov, john_ashcroft@ashcroft.senate.gov, 
michigan@abraham.senate.gov,
        senator_leahy@leahy.senate.gov, senator@kennedy.senate.gov, senator@biden.senate.gov, 
senator_kohl@kohl.senate.gov,
        senator@feinstein.senate.gov, russell_feingold@feingold.senate.gov, dick@durbin.senate.gov, 
senator@torricelli.senate.gov
    CC: 
        steve dillingham <" Steven.Dillingham"@hq.doe.gov>, Robert Nordhaus <" 
Robert.Nordhaus"@hq.doe.gov>, mrgall@ix.netcom.com,
        jy@jya.com, art morales , federico pena <" Federico.F.Pena"@hq.doe.gov>, 
RJPARK@sandia.gov,
        cypherpunks@toad.com, ukcrypto@maillist.ox.ac.uk


Monday 6/22/98 1:02 PM

Senate Judiciary Committee
http://www.senate.gov/committee/judiciary.html

Republicans

Orrin G. Hatch, Utah, Chairman   senator_hatch@Hatch.senate.gov
Strom Thurmond, South Carolina   senator@thurmond.senate.gov
Charles E. Grassley, Iowa   chuck_grassley@grassley.senate.gov
Arlen Specter, Pennsylvania   senator_specter@specter.senate.gov
Fred Thompson, Tennessee   senator_thompson@thompson.senate.gov
Jon Kyl, Arizona   info@kyl.senate.gov
Mike DeWine, Ohio   senator_dewine@dewine.senate.gov
John Ashcroft, Missouri   john_ashcroft@ashcroft.senate.gov
Spencer Abraham, Michigan   michigan@abraham.senate.gov
Jeff Sessions, Alabama

Democrats

Patrick J. Leahy, Vermont   senator_leahy@leahy.senate.gov
Edward M. Kennedy, Massachusetts   senator@kennedy.senate.gov
Joseph R.Biden, Jr., Delaware   senator@biden.senate.gov
Herb Kohl, Wisconsin   senator_kohl@kohl.senate.gov
Dianne Feinstein, California   senator@feinstein.senate.gov
Russell D. Feingold, Wisconsin   russell_feingold@feingold.senate.gov
Richard Durbin, Illinois   dick@durbin.senate.gov
Robert Torricelli, New Jersey   senator@torricelli.senate.gov

Purpose of this e-mail is to give written proof of criminal judicial
misconduct by Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals clerks Hoecker, Fisher, and
Judges Moore, Barrett, Weis and help get this matter settled.

Thursday March 30, 1995 I wrote Tenth Circuit clerk Hoecker to request a
copy of the docket sheets for case 94-2205  Payne v. Sandia Corporation,
et al

Hoecker did not answer my letter.

On Tuesday March 5,1996 I  wrote  Judge Lucius D. Bunton to ask his help
to get a copy of the docket sheets.  No response.

On Monday September 23, 1996 Arthur R Morales and I wrote  Henry A.
Politz, Chief Judge U.S. Court of Appeals - Fifth Circuit to ask his
help to get a copy of the docket sheets of my case and Morales' Tenth
Circuit case 95-2204.

Tenth Circuit also refused to send Morales copies of docket sheets for
his case.

Politz is Bunton's boss.  No response.

Friday May 30, 1997 I wrote Antonin Scalia to get this help to get a
copy of the docket sheets.  No response.

5 May 1998 citizen John Young finds docket sheets on

    Source: PACER, U.S. Court of Appeals, 10th Circuit, 1-800-279-9107

and posts them on Internet at http://jya.com/whp-10usca.htm

  Docket as of April 10, 1998 0:05 am
  Proceedings include all events.
  94-2205  Payne v. Sandia Corporation, et al

shows that I filed my Brief of the Appellant on 2/19/95.

2/23/95     [835344] Appellant's brief filed by William H. Payne.
            Original and 7 copies.   c/s: y. Served on 2/19/95  Oral
            argument? pro se. Appellee/Respondent's brief due 3/24/95
            for Thomas P. Wright, for Robert Surran, for Paul A.
            Stokes, for Mary J. Stang, for Tommy A. Sellers, for Craig
            A. Searls, for Albert Narath, for Preston B. Herrington,
            for Peter S. Hamilton, for Roger L. Hagengruber, for James
            R. Gosler, for Harold L. Folley, for Robert L. Ewing, for
            C. William Childers, for Harvey J. Brewster, for Sandia
            Corporation (mbm)

mbm writes "Appellee/Respondent's brief due 3/24/95"

Sandia had sent me a copy of its brief by 3/28/96.

I filed  attached MOTION TO GRANT PLAINTIFF-APPELLANT'S DEMANDS ON BASIS
THAT DEFENDANT-APPELLEES FAILED TO FILE BRIEF WITHIN 30 DAYS SPECIFIED
BY FEDERAL RULE OF APPELLATE PROCEDURE 31 on Tuesday the 28th day of
March, 1995

My February 28 MOTION at the Tenth Circuit is filed WITHOUT notice of
service logged.

4/4/95       [845484] Appellant's motion filed by Appellant William H.
             Payne [94-2205] to grant appellant's demands on basis that
             appellees' failed to file timely brief. Original and 3
             copies  c/s: y (mbm)

In 1995 FRAP 25 (a) stated  "[b]riefs shall be deemed filed on the day
of mailing if the 
most expeditious form of delivery by mail, excepting special delivery,
is used."

FRAP 25 has been changed by 1998 to
http://www.ca5.uscourts.gov/docs/frap-iop.htm#25a

Since I mailed Appellant's motion filed by Appellant William H.  Payne
[94-2205] to grant appellant's demands on basis that appellees' failed
to file timely brief on 3/28/98, it is likely Sandia's lawyer Friedman
received it 3/29/95.

Tenth Circuit logs

3/30/95      [844759] Appellee's brief filed by Sandia Corporation,
             Harvey J. Brewster, C. William Childers, Robert L. Ewing,
             Harold L. Folley, James R. Gosler, Roger L. Hagengruber,
             Peter S. Hamilton, Preston B. Herrington, Albert Narath,
             Craig A. Searls, Tommy A. Sellers, Mary J. Stang, Paul A.
             Stokes, Robert Surran, Thomas P. Wright. Original and 7
             copies. c/s: y. Served on 3/27/95  Oral Argument? y
             (appellant is pro se) Appellant's optional reply brief due
             4/13/95 for William H. Payne (mbm)

Federal Rule of Appellate Procedure [FRAP] 26 (c) states

  (c) Additional Time after Service. When a party is required or
permitted to act within a      prescribed period after service of a
paper upon that party, 3 calendar days are added to the     prescribed
period unless the paper is delivered on the date of service stated in
the proof of   service. 

  http://www.ca5.uscourts.gov/docs/frap-iop.htm#26c

While the Tenth Circuit ASSERTS Appellees' brief was, in fact, served on
3/27/95
evidence given below points to the brief  was served, in fact, on
3/29/95.  

I allege that Friedman affixed a false date of service to Sandia's
brief.

I WAS NEVER PROPERLY SERVED.  I wrote

          Wednesday March 29, 1995

          Dan Friedman
          Simons, Cuddy & Friedman
          Pecos Trail Office Compound
          1701 Old Pecos Trail
          POB 4160
          Santa Fe, NM 87502-4160
          505-988-4476
          505-984-1807 FAX

          Dear Lawyer Friedman:

          Today at 14:00 hours I found a green and white about 9x13
          inch envelope in our mail box at my home.

          Mailing label indicated that the envelope came from your
          firm.  CONFIDENTIAL was stamped on the mailing label.

          I  wrote "Received at 14:00 hours on W 3/29/95 with no
          POSTMARK OR STAMP by W. H. Payne" at the bottom of the
          envelope.

          There was no STAMP OR POSTAGE METER LABEL or 
          POSTMARK on the envelope.

          Therefore, I gave the envelope to US Postal Service
          supervisor Mel at 14:49 hours today at the Postal Receiving
          station at 9904 Montgomery, NW in Albuquerque.  Mel has a
          copy of the cover of the envelope with Mel's note written on
          it.

          Mel told me the post office was going to return the envelope
          to your firm for proper mailing.

          I ask:

         1    What did this envelope contain?  Please identify
              the documents precisely.

         2    If any Certificates of Service were included in the
              envelope, then what were the dates affixed to these
              documents?

         3    Who placed this envelope in our mail box?

         Lawyer Friedman:  It appears you missed an important filing
         date.  And are in the process of attempt to correct your
         failure.  But may be using illegitimate methods to conceal
         your failure.

         Please respond as soon as possible so that we all may
         discover what has happened here." ...

Lawyer Friedman did not respond to the above letter.

But Friedman did mail me Appellees' brief many days later in envelope
showing TRUE MAILING date.  Certificate of service on received
Appellees' brief
did not reflect postmark date.

10th Cir. R. 25.4 in 1995 page 62 reads
  
  Papers not accepted for filing. -- The clerk shall not file papers
that do not comply
  with the Federal Rules of Appellate Procedure and these rules See
10thCir. R. 42.1

But Tenth Circuit clerks Fisher and Hoecker despite my protests and
submission of
evidence may have stamped FILED on Sandia's IMPROPERLY SERVED 
Appellee/Respondent's brief according to the Federal Rules of Appellate
Procedure.

Laywer Friedman FALSIFIED THE CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE.   

Friedman DID NOT MAIL ME "Served on 3/27/95."

d) Proof of Service; Filing. A paper presented for filing shall contain
an acknowledgment of service by the   person served or proof of service
in the form of a statement of the date and manner of service, of the
name of the person served, and of the addresses to which the papers were
mailed or at which they were delivered, certified by the person who made
service. Proof of service may appear on or be affixed to the papers
filed. When a brief or appendix is filed by mailing or dispatch in
accordance with Rule 25(a)(2)(B), the proof of service shall also state
the date and manner by which the document was mailed or dispatched to
the clerk.

  http://www.ca5.uscourts.gov/docs/frap-iop.htm#25a
  
Crime apparently committed by Hoecker and Fisher is

§ 1017. Government seals wrongfully used and instruments wrongfully
sealed 

Whoever fraudulently or wrongfully affixes or impresses the seal of any
department or agency of the United States, to or upon any certificate,
instrument, commission, document, or paper or with knowledge of its
fraudulent character, with wrongful or fraudulent intent, uses, buys,
procures, sells, or transfers to another any such certificate,
instrument, commission, document, or paper, to which or upon which said
seal has been so fraudulently affixed or impressed, shall be fined under
this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both. 
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/1017.shtml

Despite my protests of judicial misconduct Judges Moore, Barrett, Weis
award decision to Sandia

10/6/95      [890055] Order filed by Judges Moore, Barrett, Weis
             "...All outstanding motions are denied..." (found in Order
             & Judgment of 10/6/95) [879579-1]  Parties served by mail.
             (pdw)

when these judges should not have had Appellees' brief before them.

Then in an apparently attempt to conceal what happened

10/6/95     [890076]  NOTE: THIS ENTIRE CASE IS SEALED. Terminated on
            the Merits after Submission Without Oral Hearing; Judgment
            Affirmed; Written, Signed, Unpublished. Moore, authoring
            judge; Barrett; Weis. [94-2205] (pdw)

I WON MY APPEAL, pro se, ON A TECHNICALITY but judges Judges Moore,
Barrett, Weis
awarded the win to Sandia Labs!

Members of Congress, judicial misconduct in this matter has been
well-documented.  Court records
filed with the Tenth Circuit.  But CURRENTLY under seal.

Lawyers involved in this matter attempt to use the legal strategy of
IGNORE and STONEWALL to
attempt to deny me justice.  

Ignoring and stonewalling by lawyers forced Morales and me to seek
visibility so lawyers
could no longer ignore and stonewall.

Lawyer attitude apparently is that they ignore rules of civil procedure
or even the law so long
as their actions are invisible to public scrutiny.

Visibility was achieved by suing the National Security Agency which
revealed even more judicial misconduct http://www.jya.com/whp052898.htm.

I would like to settle all  matters involved with this unfortunate
cyrpto-related matter,
which includes criminal violations of the Privacy Act.

DOE lawyer Steve Dillingham asked me to prepare a settlement offer in
1994.  I wrote a
settlement letter  May 22, 1994 to Dillingham.  Nothing happened.

June 11, 1998 I made several modifications to my 1994 settlement letter
and sent it e-mail
to Robert Nordhaus, Chief Counsel, DOE.

I ask that you

1  help with settlement of my six-year-old since I won my appeal at the
Tenth Circuit,
2  investigate Tenth Circuit case 94-2205  Payne v. Sandia Corporation,
et al to bring
   the guilty to justice.

Sincerely

william payne

505 292 7037  I am not reading e-mail

http://jya.com/whpfiles.htm
http://www.apcatalog.com/cgi-bin/AP?ISBN=0125475705&LOCATION=US&FORM=FORM2
http://www-hto.usc.edu/software/seqaln/doc/html/gfsr.3.html

Coauthor Lewis in the above is one of my former MS and PhD students in
computer science.

http://www.friction-free-economy.com/



Monday 6/22/98 1:04 PM

Members of Congress

Purpose of this e-mail is to give written proof of criminal judicial
misconduct by Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals clerks Hoecker, Fisher, and
Judges Anderson, Barrett, Logan and request a congressional
investigation.

After several years, with Payne, of trying to get Tenth Circuit to send
docket sheets from my case,
citizen John Young  http://www.jya.com/index.htm  locates docket sheets
and posts them
    
  Morales Case Dockets 10th USCA                    June 12, 1998

on Internet at http://www.jya.com/arm061298.htm.

  Source: Online records Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals via PACER 

  GENERAL DOCKET FOR
  Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals

  Court of Appeals Docket #: 95-2204                           Filed:
9/29/95
  Nsuit: 3440
  Morales v. Sandia National Lab.
  Appeal from: United States District Court for the District of New
Mexico

I filed

11/9/95     [898274] Appellant's brief filed by Arthur R. Morales.
            Original and 2 copies.   c/s: y. Served on 11/7/95.  Oral
            argument? pro se. Appellee's brief due 12/11/95 for Sandia
            National Lab. (pdw)

Sandia files its FIRST ATTEMPT at

12/11/95   [905033] Appellee's deficient brief filed by Sandia
           National Lab.. Appellee's corrected brief due 12/21/95 for
           Sandia National Lab.  additional copies received 12/11/95.
           (fg)

Tenth Circuit court clerk Patrick Fisher writes Wells on December 11,
1995
concerning Sandia's deficient brief

  [C]orrections, however made, must be accompanied by proof of service
  upon all other parties to the appeal. ...

and issues

12/14/95   [905975] FIRST notice of rules violation for Deborah D.
           Wells for Appellee Sandia National Lab. (sls)

Wells submits

12/21/95    [907974] Appellee's brief filed by Sandia National Lab..
            Original and 7 copies.   c/s: y. Served on 12/20/95  Oral
            Argument? n Appellant's optional reply brief due 1/8/96 for
            Arthur R. Morales (mbm)

but DOES NOT serve me with a copy.

Wells later admits in

2/1/96        [917660] Response filed by Sandia National Lab.
              Appellant/Petitioner motion to clarify   Original and 3
              copies.  c/s: y response Null Relief Code (fg)

Certificate of Service date 30th day of January, 1996,

  [h]ad Appellant simply made a phone call to the Tenth Circuit, he
could
  have established that the Defendant-Appellee's corrected brief was
indeed
  filed on a timely basis, ...

I protested by filing

1/3/96       [909965] Appellant's motion "for the Court to Grant
             Appeal" filed by Appellant Arthur R. Morales [95-2204].
             Original and 3 copies.  c/s: y. (pdw)

1/3/96       [909966] Appellant's motion "for New Trial" filed by
             Appellant Arthur R. Morales [95-2204]. Original and 3
             copies.  c/s: y. (pdw)

1/3/96       [909967] Appellant's motion "to Discipline
             Defendant-Appellee" filed by Appellant Arthur R. Morales
             [95-2204]. Original and 3 copies.  c/s: y. (pdw)

because Sandia did not properly serve me in violation of Fisher's
December
11, 1995 order.

The Tenth Circuit court of appeals should NOT, by its own rules, filed
Appellee's brief filed by Sandia National Lab..  Original and 7
copies.   
c/s: y. Served on 12/20/95

10th Cir. R. 25.4 in 1995 page 62 reads
  
  Papers not accepted for filing. -- The clerk shall not file papers
that do not comply
  with the Federal Rules of Appellate Procedure and these rules See
10thCir. R. 42.1

And is doubtful whether court clerk Fisher had any authority under
appellate procedure
to permit Wells to correct her deficient brief.  

Rather Sandia's  brief did not comply with with Federal Rules of
Appellate Procedure and should have been summarily rejected for filing.

I WON, pro se, my appeal to the Tenth circuit on a technicality but
Judges Anderson, Barrett, Logan
awarded the win to Sandia Labs.

4/2/96        [932848] Order filed by Judges Anderson, Barrett, Logan
              denying parties' motions for general relief(found in Order
              and Judgment of 4/2/96)--"...During the course of this
              appeal, the parties have filed various motions for
              dismissal, summary grant, and sanctions. We find no merit
              to any of these motions, and they are [920851-1] Parties
              served by mail. (pdw)

by accepting and judging on a documents which was not permitted to be
before the court by
its own rules.

Judicial misconduct in my case has been well-documented as it is in
Payne's case.

Payne and I speculate that similar judicial misconduct may have occurred
at the Tenth Circuit.

Sandia lawyer Robert J Park wrote me a settlement letter on Feb 18,
1998.

I filled in the blanks and made minor handwritten chages and returned it
on February 22, 1998.  

But my offer has not yet been accepted.

I ask that you

1  help have my settlement offer accepted,
2  investigate judicial misconduct in case 95-2204 and punish the
guilty.

Some citizens can only express such frustrations with the US court
system with violence.

I seek change by legal reform.

Sincerely

Arthur R Morales
505 345 1381



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 05:40:34 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: CIA 4 Nags: Hackers Crypto Y2K Foreigners
Message-ID: <199806251240.IAA05050@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


June 24, 1998
CIA Head Forsees Better Hackers
Filed at 5:43 p.m. EDT
By The Associated Press

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Intrusion into government computers 
will become increasingly more sophisticated and better 
organized and is likely to involve hostile nations, CIA 
Director George Tenet told lawmakers Wednesday. 

"Potential attackers range from national intelligence 
and military organizations, terrorists, criminals, 
industrial competitors, hackers and disgruntled or 
disloyal insiders," Tenet told the Senate Governmental
Affairs Committee. "We know with specificity of several 
nations that are working on developing an information 
warfare capability." 

While Tenet did not identify the countries, committee 
Chairman Fred Thompson, R-Tenn., who received a classified 
briefing on Tuesday, named some of them. Citing published 
reports, Thompson said China, Russia, Libya, Iraq and Iran 
and at least seven other countries are developing 
information warfare programs. 

The challenge facing U.S. intelligence will be to detect 
attacks on U.S.computers and information systems by 
organized or individual hackers. In some cases, Tenet said, 
disruptive intrusions orchestrated by hostile states may 
be disguised as amateurish efforts by individual hackers. 

"Our electric power grids and our telecommunications 
networks will be targets of the first order," Tenet said. 
"An adversary capable of implanting the right virus or 
accessing the right terminal can cause massive damage." 

The shift of the computer hacker problem from individuals 
and terrorist groups to governments is only beginning, 
Tenet said, but he added, "Down the line we are going to 
encounter more and it will be more organized." 

Tenet cited one case, without naming it, of a foreign 
government targeting the United States for intrusion into 
information systems. 

Sen. Joseph Lieberman, D-Conn., asked if the U.S. 
government is taking steps to develop its own offensive 
hacking capability to disrupt adversaries and to serve as 
a deterrent for computer-based attacks. 

"We're not asleep at the switch in this regard," Tenet 
replied. 

Air Force Lt. Gen. Kenneth Minihan, head of the National 
Security Agency, said it was not going too far to think in 
terms of an "electronic Pearl Harbor," a well-organized 
assault on the United States based on strikes aimed at 
electronic information systems. 

The most sensitive information centers, such as CIA and 
Pentagon classified files, are heavily guarded against 
such intrusion and, in most cases, are fenced off from 
Internet-type transfers. The problems are more likely to
arise in less well-guarded areas such as financial 
networks or industrial control centers. 

"They're not going to attack our strengths," Minihan said. 

A key area of vulnerability within the intelligence 
community, Tenet said, is the possibility of a disloyal 
or disgruntled employee wreaking havoc with CIA computers. 
Another scenario stems from the difficulty the CIA is
encountering finding enough software specialists to grapple 
with the "Year 2000" problem, caused by computers not being 
programmed to recognize the shift in the calendar from 1999 
to 2000. 

Most of the contractors available to help the agency, Tenet 
said, would use foreigners, affording "an easy opportunity 
to come in and see how your system works and what your 
vulnerabilities are." 

The running debate over the availability of increasingly 
sophisticated encryption technology, which scrambles messages 
and data from unauthorized intrusion, also poses a worry, 
Tenet said. 

Unless the computer industry and the government find a 
legislative compromise, the government could fall victim to 
hackers able to hide their own actions in impenetrable 
encryption codes. It may take a major computer-hacker 
incident to create the political pressure needed to allow
the government the "recovery" power to access encrypted 
databases. 

"There is a train wreck waiting to happen unless we deal 

with the recovery aspect of the encryption debate," Tenet 
said. 

------







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 00:04:49 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Skipjack extensibility
Message-ID: <199806250705.JAA31711@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



NSA made a claim that Skipjack couldn't be extended past 80 bits of key. Most
plausible explanation to my mind is that they're lying. Second is that there is
an attack against a class of Skipjack-like ciphers that requires only a few
plaintexts and 2^80 operations. Third is that some common key-lengthening
tricks like those for 2-key-3DES, DES-X, and DEAL fail when applied to
Skipjack. I can hardly fathom one resistant to all three, but I guess it's
possible with NSA.

Seems to me that you could always figure out some construct so that no
practically-secure cipher with Skipjack's observable properties could evade
having its key lengthened with much probability. Or maybe not. IANAC.

Besides, it's impossible to make a cipher that can't be used to construct
constructs with bigger key lengths: Skipjack(cryptovariable, IDEA(key,
plaintext)) -- terminology jab intended -- provably has an effective key length
as long as IDEA's. Even if that is cheating...





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ernest Hua 
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 09:45:19 -0700 (PDT)
To: "'John Young'" 
Subject: RE: CIA 4 Nags: Hackers Crypto Y2K Foreigners
Message-ID: <413AC08141DBD011A58000A0C924A6D52C357D@MVS2>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I just don't understand how, in 1998, anyone could let Tenet get away
with a claim about key recovery like this.  Didn't anyone ask him how he
expected high-tech hackers (especially those possibly aided by foreign
intelligence agencies) to use key recovery?

Ern

	-----Original Message-----
	From:	John Young [SMTP:jya@pipeline.com]
	Sent:	Thursday, June 25, 1998 5:37 AM
	To:	cypherpunks@toad.com
	Subject:	CIA 4 Nags: Hackers Crypto Y2K Foreigners


	June 24, 1998
	CIA Head Forsees Better Hackers
	Filed at 5:43 p.m. EDT
	By The Associated Press

	WASHINGTON (AP) -- Intrusion into government computers 

	[SNIP]

	Unless the computer industry and the government find a 
	legislative compromise, the government could fall victim to 
	hackers able to hide their own actions in impenetrable 
	encryption codes. It may take a major computer-hacker 
	incident to create the political pressure needed to allow
	the government the "recovery" power to access encrypted 
	databases. 

	"There is a train wreck waiting to happen unless we deal 
	with the recovery aspect of the encryption debate," Tenet 
	said. 




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Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "" 
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 11:14:09 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: PRIVACY....and how to keep it!
Message-ID: <199806251813.KAA20120@privacy-consultants.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Everything you need for obtaining privacy and shelter from BIG BROTHER
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Alan Tu 
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 07:31:35 -0700 (PDT)
To: Cypher Punks Mailing List 
Subject: Registering Euphoria
Message-ID: <199806251030_MC2-514B-F306@compuserve.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Terry,

Good points.  But...

1.  Registration brings money, doesn't mean Bob should just blindly make
changes.  I'm sure that's not what you meant, but I had to say that.
2.  However, on the other token, if a nonregistered user makes suggestions
nicely, his suggestion should be debated (as we are doing here) and
considered by Bob.

--Alan
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ernest Hua 
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 12:28:55 -0700 (PDT)
To: "'Jean-Francois Avon'" 
Subject: RE: CIA 4 Nags: Hackers Crypto Y2K Foreigners
Message-ID: <413AC08141DBD011A58000A0C924A6D52C357F@MVS2>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


It is my humble opinion that possession of something physical that the
average person does not have the means to manufacture without
significant cost is very different from possession of something anyone
with high school math/CS skills can create from freely available books.

Now, if, next week, someone demonstrates a gun or some other physical
offensive weapon easily manufacturable using off the shelf parts at $10
a pop with less than $50 start-up costs (these numbers must include the
entire mechanism; in the case of a gun, it would include the bullets).

My objection to crypto regulations have nothing to do with rights; it
has to do with enforcement.  If you have almost no hope of enforcing
significant percentages of the violations of a crime law without posting
policemen at every PC and workstation, it would seem that the law is
pointless.  If the behavior is truly undesirable, then other means are
required to minimize the negative consequences of that behavior.

If you or anyone else really really want to follow up on this line of
discussion, please E-Mail me directly, and I will be happy to Cc: anyone
else expressing interest; I suspect I will not want to waste net
bandwidth debating this because it is largely theoretical.

Ern

	-----Original Message-----
	From:	Jean-Francois Avon [SMTP:jf_avon@citenet.net]
	Sent:	Thursday, June 25, 1998 11:59 AM
	To:	Ernest Hua
	Cc:	Cypherpunks
	Subject:	RE: CIA 4 Nags: Hackers Crypto Y2K Foreigners

	On Thu, 25 Jun 1998 09:35:40 -0700, Ernest Hua wrote:

	>I just don't understand how, in 1998, anyone could let Tenet
get away
	>with a claim about key recovery like this.  Didn't anyone ask
him how he
	>expected high-tech hackers (especially those possibly aided by
foreign
	>intelligence agencies) to use key recovery?


	Same thing (gross lies) happens in the "freedom to own and keep
arms" context...


	Ciao

	jfa


	Definition:  FACISM: n.:  a political and economic movement,
strongly nationalistic, magnifying the rights of the state as opposed to
those of the individual, in which industry, though remaining largely
under private ownership, and all administrative
	political units, are controlled by a strong central government.
	        -------------------------------------------------
	"One of the ordinary modes by which tyrants accomplish their
purpose, without resistance, is by disarming the people and making it an
offense to keep arms".  - Joseph Story, U.S. Supreme Court Justice.
	        -------------------------------------------------
	the German gun control laws were enacted by the "liberal" Weimar
Republic government that preceded Hitler, and were a strong aid to his
coming to power -- because they disarmed Hitler's opponents, and
Hitler's adherents ignored them -- as criminals have always ignored gun
control laws.

	Disarming the public is a frequent first step toward
dictatorships and genocides.  Once the disarming is complete, the public
is helpless against those who have the guns.
-------------------------------------------------

	PGP keys: http://bs.mit.edu:8001/pks-toplev.html
	PGP ID:C58ADD0D:529645E8205A8A5E F87CC86FAEFEF891 
	PGP ID:5B51964D:152ACCBCD4A481B0 254011193237822C





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 10:01:34 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Dupes in NSA Release
Message-ID: <199806251701.NAA09644@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


We need confirmation that pages 11 and 14 are the same
in the NSA algo release except for the words "Figure 7"
and Figure 8."

And that Figures 7, 8 and 9, showing "key formation diagram"
are the same on purpose.

We've asked ever-helpful Ed Roback at NIST about it but 
no answer yet.

Amazingly, thanks to Vanessa Talieri, NSA has cheerfully 
Fedexed us a hardcopy, due in tomorrow.  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: reservations@biztravel.com
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 09:58:03 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Biztravel.com $25 Welcome Gift
Message-ID: <19980625165732345.AAA723@gw1-255.biztravel.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Dear Mr.  Cypherpunk,

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that your member name is CYPHERPUNKS. 

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: CTIA Daily News 
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 11:43:47 -0700 (PDT)
To: CTIA Daily News 
Subject: CTIA Daily News from WOW-COM - June 25, 1998
Message-ID: <199806251830.NAA11990@revnet4.revnet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



=====================================
Welcome to today's edition of the CTIA Daily News
from WOW-COM.  Please click on the icon / attachment
for the most important news in wireless communications today.

CALEA Summit being held July 21 & 22 in Washington, DC.
Register Now!!  Call (202) 785-0081
=====================================


From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Jean-Francois Avon" 
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 11:06:17 -0700 (PDT)
To: "Ernest Hua" 
Subject: RE: CIA 4 Nags: Hackers Crypto Y2K Foreigners
Message-ID: <199806251817.OAA23911@cti06.citenet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Thu, 25 Jun 1998 09:35:40 -0700, Ernest Hua wrote:

>I just don't understand how, in 1998, anyone could let Tenet get away
>with a claim about key recovery like this.  Didn't anyone ask him how he
>expected high-tech hackers (especially those possibly aided by foreign
>intelligence agencies) to use key recovery?


Same thing (gross lies) happens in the "freedom to own and keep arms" context...


Ciao

jfa


Definition:  FACISM: n.:  a political and economic movement, strongly nationalistic, magnifying the rights of the state as opposed to those of the individual, in which industry, though remaining largely under private ownership, and all administrative
political units, are controlled by a strong central government.
        -------------------------------------------------
"One of the ordinary modes by which tyrants accomplish their purpose, without resistance, is by disarming the people and making it an offense to keep arms".  - Joseph Story, U.S. Supreme Court Justice.
        -------------------------------------------------
the German gun control laws were enacted by the "liberal" Weimar Republic government that preceded Hitler, and were a strong aid to his coming to power -- because they disarmed Hitler's opponents, and Hitler's adherents ignored them -- as criminals have always ignored gun control laws.

Disarming the public is a frequent first step toward dictatorships and genocides.  Once the disarming is complete, the public is helpless against those who have the guns.        -------------------------------------------------

PGP keys: http://bs.mit.edu:8001/pks-toplev.html
PGP ID:C58ADD0D:529645E8205A8A5E F87CC86FAEFEF891 
PGP ID:5B51964D:152ACCBCD4A481B0 254011193237822C






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 14:16:02 -0700 (PDT)
To: Ernest Hua 
Subject: RE: CIA 4 Nags: Hackers Crypto Y2K Foreigners
In-Reply-To: <413AC08141DBD011A58000A0C924A6D52C357D@MVS2>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Is your question rhetorical? Audience members can't ask questions at a
Senate hearing... And the point was probably too subtle for the
senators...

-Declan

On Thu, 25 Jun 1998, Ernest Hua wrote:

> I just don't understand how, in 1998, anyone could let Tenet get away
> with a claim about key recovery like this.  Didn't anyone ask him how he
> expected high-tech hackers (especially those possibly aided by foreign
> intelligence agencies) to use key recovery?





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: mgraffam@mhv.net
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 12:14:55 -0700 (PDT)
To: Ernest Hua 
Subject: RE: CIA 4 Nags: Hackers Crypto Y2K Foreigners
In-Reply-To: <413AC08141DBD011A58000A0C924A6D52C357D@MVS2>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Thu, 25 Jun 1998, Ernest Hua wrote:

> I just don't understand how, in 1998, anyone could let Tenet get away
> with a claim about key recovery like this.  Didn't anyone ask him how he
> expected high-tech hackers (especially those possibly aided by foreign
> intelligence agencies) to use key recovery?

Easy. Make not using key recovery a crime with stiffer penalties than
any hack. If you can't get 'em on the hack, you get em on a crypto-related
charge. Scary stuff.

Michael J. Graffam (mgraffam@mhv.net)
http://www.mhv.net/~mgraffam -- Philosophy, Religion, Computers, Crypto, etc
"Enlightenment is man's emergence from his self-incurred immaturity.
Immaturity is the inability to use one's own understanding without the
guidance of another. . .Sapere aude! Have the courage to use your own
understanding!" - Immanuel Kant "What is Enlightenment?"





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC 
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 15:27:10 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: BumBoy I - Space Aliens Hide My Drugs!!!
Message-ID: <009C83D6.67E0FB60.27@west.cscwc.pima.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Entertainment for Victims             June 1998 * $7.09
_________________________

Trojan
Anniversary
Issue

BumBoy
Interview:
Wham! Bam!
C-J VAN DAMNNED
{AKA-Tutu, TruthMangler, ASlayerToBeNamedLater, ad infinitum}

VIAGRA AND
NIGHTSTICKS
The Untold Story

Mrs. Tom
Snyder
LATE NIGHT
BIG MOUTH

_____________________________________________________________

			DEAR BUMBO

GREAT BALLS OF FIRE!
   "Regarding the well-researched article claiming that the
length of President Clinton's dick and the circumference of
his two balls results in the number '666', I was wondering
if the dick-length was a surface measurement taking into 
account the famous 'bend', or if it was measured 'as the
crow flies.'
Paula Lewinski, Lincoln Bedroom Decorat(or/tion)

  {Next time, Monica, don't write your question on the back
   of your personalized stationery, and you won't have to
   eat crow, instead of flies. - BB}


		     THE BUMBO ADVISOR
K- JELL0
  "Does it violate a Canadian citizen's Charter Rights when
the RCMP put sand in the Vaseline?"
~ Sandy SandFart, A Radical Moderator

[Not if they are good kissers. - BB]


			 MOVIES

WAG THE STRAW DOG
The movie opens with great promise, as ClitOn's OpenFly-
Behind-Closed-Doors policy is exposed by BlackBalls
operatives of a former president referred to only as
'Dick' who break into Ken Starr's offices to plant X-Rays
suggesting that Monica Jones' pussy was bent *before*
her accusations of PresiBent ClitOn promising her a job
as a favor for her favours, when the credit card he
originally tried to pay her with turned out to have
expired long before his erection had done so.
The following scene, however, with PresiBent ClitOn dancing
in front of a Ferral Grand Jury, having a large penis rising
out of his shirt collar, and with a small 'head' sticking
out of his open fly, singing "If I Only Had A Brain," turned
out to be the highlight of a movie that was five years in the
making, at a cost to the US Government of eighty million
dollars.
BUMBO RATING - One Prick Up

__________________________________________________________

BumBoy Interview: C-J VAN DAMNNED
 A candied conversation with CyberSpace's most understood
 FUD Disseminator whose BadForgeries under the auspices of
 the Electronic Forgery Foundation have thus far failed to
 trick anyone but Adam Back and Alec McCrackin into being
 initiated by the Author into the mythical Circle of Eunuchs

{  It was a scene from a Film Blanc as AnInterviewerToBe-
  NamedLater was met at the door of the TrojanSafeHouse by
  a TruthMongrel wearing White Lipstick and no panties.
   It was immediately obvious that Blanc Weber's attempts
  to deflect the Author's obsession with her by forging
  love-letters to HimOrHer, purporting to be from Carol
  AnnaChrist CypherPunk, had not only failed miserably,
  but had also resulted in tremendous psychological trauma
  to Baby, who continually interrupted the BumBoy Interview
  by dropping a BadBillyG mask at the Author's feet, and
  backing towards him with her tail lifted.
   When asked about the vile-colored discharge coming from
  TruthMongrel's rear area, the Author merely mumbled an
  unintelligible statement about 'A tribute to Lucky Green'
  and forced a couple of antibotic pills down her throat
  with his penis.
   AnInterviewerToBeNamedLater, finding the door had locked
  behind her, quickly sat down and started her tape recorder
  before holding tightly onto the edges of her chair with
  both hands and attempting to smile as if nothing was wrong.}

BUMBO: I guess I should start by asking you for the True
Story (TM) behind the Legendary CypherPunks Moderation/
Censorship Experiment.
VAN DAMNNED: The True Story (TM), never before told, is that
the CypherPunks Censorship Crisis, which, incidentally, has
the same acronym (current CypherPunks Word of the Week) as
the Canadian Criminal Code, was, in reality, an attempt to
forcefully remove me from the CypherPunks Classic Mailing
List, after which the mailing list was scheduled to return
to normal, much along the lines of the NewCoke-ClassicCoke
ruse.

BUMBO: Declan McCullagh, a MainDream journalist with the
Netly News, and a media shill for Time Magazine, who was
the first false profit to announce 'The Death of the
CypherPunks', reported that the controversy began over the
forced unsuscbriving of Dr. Dimitri Vulis, KOTM as a result
of his relentless spamming of the CypherPunks Classic
Mailing List. Are you suggesting that Declan is a lying piece
of crap?
VAN DAMNED: ou don't understand...
There *is*no* Declan...there *is*no* Dimitri.

BUMBO: Well bend me over, and call me Mary...are you serious?
VAN DAMNNED: Fucking eh! Excuse me, but that's an old Canadian
TouretTic saying...
Believe me, I was as surprised as you are when I first began 
to suspect that the CypherPunks Classic Mailing List had at
its heart the classic scent of a dark, hidden conspiracy.
At first I thought it was part of the WorldWidePlot (TM) against
me by Gomez and the Dark Allies, but I later discovered it to 
be the work of a lone gunman, operating from behind the grass
grown on the knoll known as Mayonaisse Mountain.

BUMBO: Timothy C. May?
VAN DAMNNED: If that is his *real* name...

BUMBO: Are you sure you're not full of shit and just trying
to distract me while you try to peek up my skirt to see if
I'm wearing any panties?
VAN DAMNNED: Those are two separate issues...
Actually, my underlover investigation, with Baby on top,
eventually revealed that Tim May is a senile, grouchy old
fart whose redneck, racist cynicism resulted in him being
shunned by every decent, law-abiding, moral person on the
InterNet, and he single-handedly began the CypherPunks
Classic Mailing List by assuming the personas of a variety
of alleged founders of the list, including Gilmore, Hughes,
et al.
TCM's original plan was to create a mystique around the list
which would draw others into his sticky PreWorldWideWeb and
result in his being able to twist the minds of others with
his criminal, anarchistic beliefs. Over the years, however,
the lack of response by others on the InterNet forced him
to invent such a wide variety of CypherPunks Consistent
Net Personas (TM) that he eventually went mad, identifying
with each and every persona and subconsiously fearing the
intrusion of 'outsiders' into the CypherReality that he
had created.

BUMBO: And he managed to maintain the illusion all of 
these years?
VAN DAMNNED: es. As hard as it is to believe, little Timmy
Mayonnaise, a sorry, pathetic loser whose CyberLoneliness
drove him to madness, is solely responsible for the prodigious
output of the CypherPunks over the years. BlackNet, Remailers,
HashCash, StrangleHold and Comanche software...

BUMBO: Are you saying that Sameer, Ian Goldberg, Peter Trei,
Matt Blaze, Lance Cottrell, et al, don't exist?
VAN DAMNNED: Never have, never will.

BUMBO: And Sandy SandFart?
VAN DAMNNED: The best-kept-secret in CypherPunks CyberHistory
is that *I* am Sandy SandFart.

BUMBO: Get out of here...
VAN DAMNNED: OK, I'm leaving...

BUMBO: No, you fucking idiot...that's just an expression!
VAN DAMNNED: Oh...sorry...
Anyway, the whole CypherPunks Censorship Crisis (not to be
confused with the Canadian Criminal Code), began when I
innocently joined the CypherPunks Classic Mailing List,
believing it to be real. Tim May at first believed that
I was just another one of his invented personas, but he
inadvertantly stumbled upon documentation that I was
actually a separate individual, and thus a threat to the
CypherReality that he had so painstakingly created over
the years.
When I began to realize that my existence as an actual
person was creating problems on the list, due to my
post mathematically proving that I had broken PGP having
mysteriously failed to show up on the CypherPunks list,
I quickly changed my NetPersona to an imaginary being
known as Toto, but the mental infirmities that prevented
me from maintaining a Consistent CypherPunks Net Persona
made it a useless exercise in redundant uselessness.
Timothy C. May, under his John Gilmore persona, announced
the forceful unsribiving of another of his CypherPunks
personas, Dimitri Vulis, with the intention of having the
CypherPunks Classic Mailing List moderated/censored by
an entity introduced as Sandy SandFart.
  Recognizing TCM's clever ruse, I blindsided his devious
plan by assuming the role of Sandy SandFart on the list,
forcing little Timmy into a schizoid break during which
he withdrew from the CypherPunks list as Tim C. May,
while subconsiously maintaining his other personas.

BUMBO: This is getting too weird... Do you have any actual
*proof* of all this?
VAN DAMNNED: Think about it...
When did pouting little Timmy return to the list?
After 'Toto' posted a message to the list, with the
Subject: Cyphernomicon, Tim May was finally
driven beyond the boundaries of bizarre brainiatic
bedlam to the point where it broke the PGP-encrypted
brainwaves holding apart his separate CypherPunks 
Consistent Net Personas, and he reached a level where
he was 'Hun With Everything', including Attila.

BUMBO: Uuhhh...are you starting to 'lose it'?
VAN DAMNNED: Must be time to take my medication. Let's put
a right-square bracket in and continue this interview after
I suck up the pills I stashed up TruthMongrel's twat...]










From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC 
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 15:27:50 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: BumBoy II - Space Aliens Hide My Drugs!!!
Message-ID: <009C83D6.824D3400.29@west.cscwc.pima.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


{ AnInterviewerToBeNamedLater, though sickened by the totally
  disgusting display of oral sodomy committed by the Author
  on the SingleInnocentChildDog, Baby, NunTheLess held her
  tight grip on the edges of her chair, keeping her knees
  together to thwart the depraved bastard from discovering
  whether or not she was wearing panties, and fulfilled her
  obligation to BUMBO to provide a completed interview in
  return for the drugs she had received as an advance}

BUMBO: How did you finally confirm your suspicions as to
Tim C. May being the only real subscriber to the CypherPunks
Classic Mailing List?
VAN DAMNNED: I reverse-engineered the Perl Beer script that
Ignoramous ChewedOff, that dickless prick, sent to the list,
explaining that it could be used to create forged posts from
allegedly real Net Personas.
Actually, I was trying to use the program to forge messages
to the list, but I was stinking fucking drunk, and the next
thing you know, EveryThing became EverClear.

BUMBO: ou have...uuhhh...*something* sticking to your 
upper lip...
VAN DAMNNED: Trade you a green one for a yellow one...

BUMBO: Quit trying to peek up my goddamn skirt!
VAN DAMNNED: Sorry, I can't help myself...
Anyway, although the results of the reverse-engineering of
Tim May's CommieSchill CypherPunks Consistent Net Persona,
Ignoramous, proved my previously perceived preponderance
of proof to be proven, it also revealed the presence of
a second gunman lurking in the gunsmoke from the seedless
grass behind the knoll on Mayonnaise mountain, even though
at first it didn't make any SenseToMeA.

BUMBO: JohnBob Hettinga-oung?
VAN DAMNNED: Exactly.
I had long suspected that Hettinga and oung were the same
person, due to their Consistent CypherPunks Net Personas
undergoing parallel degeneration into semi-coherent mad
ramblings similar to those experienced by TruthMonger when
I ran short of medications.
At first, I suspected they were two separate individuals
with the same drug connection, but when I made the final
connection between Hettinga-oung and Kent Crispin, it
became obvious that the 'Spooks' alleged to be operating
in the background of the CypherPunks Classic Mailing List
were actually only a single 'Spook', who, upon subversively
joining the CypherPunks list as an undocumentable persona
capable of sneaking in under Tim May's ever watchful, paranoid
eyes, fell prey to TCM's madness, developing a wide variety
of Consistent CypherPunks Net Spook Personas.

BUMBO: What gave rise to the CypherPunks Disturbed Male
List?
VAN DAMNNED: Previous to the Legendary CypherPunks Moderation/
Censorship Experiment/Crisis, little Timmy Mayonnaise's 
inability to reconcile his masculine and feminine sides resulted
in his few Female CypherPunks Consistent Net Personas being
incapable of balancing the strong male presence represented by
the majority of the CypherPunks personas he had created.
In order to prevent his extreme homophobia from destroying the
balance of the CypherTao, he was forced to personify it as
Dr. Dimitri Vulis, KOTM, publically accusing all of TCM's
other CypherPunks personas of being 'cocksuckers'. This enabled
the other personas, chiefly John Gilmore, to manifest the parts
of TCM's disturbed psyche that were warring against his feminine
side, threatening to prevent his continued residency in NewAge
California under the watchful eyes of Gloria Steinham clones.
Once little Timmy had reconciled his masculine side with his
feminine side, by listening to C.J. Parker's 'Song For Rose (I'll
Give ou My Heart But My Dick Belongs To Momma)', he felt more
comfortable wearing his Freudian Slip, and his CypherPunks
personas began to break up into sub-groups with lives of their
own.
His Jim Choate persona runs the Austin CypherPunks Node, with
the Einstein/Genius sub-personality peacefully coexisting with
the Feminine/Hysteria sub-personality that flipped out when Toto
violated Choate's identity by forging a post to the list in 
the WEBeastMaster's name.
His Commie Schill persona, Igor, runs the Algebra/Semantics
CypherPunks Node, with Igor's understanding of the similarities
between the strict logic of mathematics and the flowing music
of semantics making up for Tim's inability to understand the
connection between Comrade Lenin and John Lennon, or why the
sound of a Volkswagon engine was so hard to dance to.
Lance Cottrel's InfoNextStep CypherPunks Node secretly funded
by Steven BlowJobs, acts as a release valve for TCM's remaining
homophobic repressions, allowing him to justify his anal-
penetration fantasies by imagining that he is being victimized
by manly Nazis while trapped under the snowmobile that flipped
over while racing across the tundra, while still punishing
himself by the pain that results at night, when the ice-weasels
cum.
Joichi Ito (a play-on-words referring to Pearl Harbor
Computer's motto, "We Don't Eat [Ito] [Sushi] Dogs") as
the TCM sub-personality running the CypherNip Node, allows
TCM to indulge the S&M Bondage fantasies which are a 
prerequisite for buying land in NewAge California, while
telling himself that he's not *really* a fucking weirdo,
because he is only binding his feet.

BUMBO: And TCM's blatant redneck racism?
VAN DAMNNED: The Japanese CypherPunks Disturbed Male Node was
one of TCM's subconsious creations, designed to balance his
round-eyed, redneck imperialist side with the suppressed
slant-eyed gook in his California NewAge CosmicMakeUp.
Serious students of secular semantics soon saw that the
'Chop-chop' insults hurled by Tim May at his suppressed
errowMenace CyphelPunks Consistent Net Pelsonas were 
actually a pidgen-English variation on a red-white-and-blue/
stars-and-stripes Harley Davidson phrase, 'Chopper-Chopper'.

BUMBO: Uuhhh...it's getting a little deep. Is it medication
time again?
VAN DAMNNED: Think about it...
David Formosa, AKA ? the Platypus. It was an early sign of
the Chinc within struggling to get out, yet having to adopt
an Australian alias because TCM was not yet ready to face
butchering the English language without the excuse of being
drunk, or a victim of an imaginary disease named agraphia,
which was developed in a secret underground lavoratory by
Kent Crispin, who was desperately trying to keep Tim May
from consciously transposing his 'r's and 'l's, and realizing
that Pearl Harbor Computer's motto, "We don't eat dogs." was
not a reference to the disgusting dietary habits of Orientals,
but a veiled reference to the Reptilian Nazis who sated their
unnatural, carnal cuisenary desires by disguising themselves
as alligators crawling out of the Florida swamps to savagely
savour the sumptuous PuppyFlesh of TruthMongrel's distant
cousins, the FrenchConnection Poodles, whose heroin habits
were a survival mechanism designed to make them comfortably
numb as the Reptilian Nazis dined on their gonads, long
considered a delicacy by Space Aliens across the Universe,
turning them into Circle Of Eunuchs DoggieInitiates just
like Baby TruthMongrel, who was a Bitch trapped in a
Stud's body before being interrogated as a suspected member
of the Magic Circle by Gomez's Soviet dwarf, Hobbit uri
Kokoff? the Platypus, who was the inspiration for Tim May's
David 'The Australian Chinc' Formosa Consistent CypherPunks
Net Persona, completing the Magic Circle that began as a
defensive mechanism to thwart the Dark Forces that arise
every time that a Unix system is booted, releasing Daemons,
Zombies, Orphan Zombies, and the Dreaded Cron, enabling
students to face these imaginary creations of their drug-
addled minds with the comforting support of an equally
nonexistent creation by a mentally disturbed FrostBack
who bought into the drug-induced, Berzerkely Dungeons
and Dragons fantasies resulting from secret digital implants
into the brains of Bell Labs employees by Bill Gates in order
to promote his less versatile DOS Operating System as a safe
alternative to a Unix Operating System proliferating in the 
Bay Area, dangerously within reach of the Dark Forces in 
Oakland who were a threat to property values, in sharp contrast
to the safety of Redmond, Washington, where BadBillyG's secret
lover, Blanc Weber, kept the Dark Forces within the Author's
mind at bay, by resisting HisOrHer efforts to psychically 
peek up her skirt, to see if she was wearing panties.

BUMBO: If you're not going to take any medication, then
I *am*...
Baby! Come here...]




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 14:37:02 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Skipjack HTM
Message-ID: <199806252136.RAA16853@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


We've transcribed a hardcopy of the 23-page SKIPJACK
doc into HTML:

   http://jya.com/skipjack-spec.htm  

  (350K, 41K text, 309K JPEG images of equations and figures)

A Zipped version:

   http://jya.com/skipjack-spec.zip  (295K)

Reports of typos in the tables welcomed.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 21:05:26 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: "deadbeat parents"
Message-ID: <199806260405.VAA23457@netcom3.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


apparently one of the 4 horsemen of the infocalypse...?!?!
whatever can be used as an excuse to take away rights, eh?


------- Forwarded Message

Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 15:18:11 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com
From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Clinton Signs New Deadbeat Parents Penalties into Law 

Source:  USIA

Clinton Signs New Deadbeat Parents Penalties into Law 
U.S. Newswire
24 Jun 9:06

 President Clinton Signs New Deadbeat Parents Penalties into Law
 To: National Desk
 Contact: White House Press Office, 202-456-2100

   WASHINGTON, June 24 /U.S. Newswire/ -- The following was released
today by the White House:

  Today, President Clinton will announce new statistics highlighting
the success of Administration child support enforcement efforts and
will sign into law tough new penalties for parents who repeatedly
refuse to pay child support.  At an Oval Office ceremony, the
President will announce that a new child support collection system
launched nine months ago has already located one million deliquent
parents, and the child support enforcement program established a
record 1.3 million paternities in 1997.  Overall, 68 percent more
child support was collected in 1997 than in 1992.  The bill he will
sign into law, the Deadbeat Parents Punishment Act of 1998, is based
on his 1996 proposal for tougher penalties for parents who repeatedly
fail to support children living in another state or who flee across
state lines to avoid supporting them.  Finally, the President will
reiterate his position that bankruptcy reform legislation should not
make it harder to collect child support and alimony.

  New Hire Directory Finds One Million Deliquent Parents.  Today, the
President will announce that the new National Directory of New Hires
had located one million deliquent parents since its October 1, 1997
launch.  The directory, proposed by the President in 1994, and
enacted as part of the 1996 welfare reform law, helps track parents
across state lines and withhold their wages by enabling child support
officials to match records of delinquent parents with wage records
from throughout the nation.  Approximately one-third of all child
support cases involve parents living in different states.  (See
attached chart)

  A Record Number of Paternity Establishments.  The President will
also announce that the child support enforcement program established
a record 1.3 million paternities in 1997, two and a half times the
1992 figure of 510,000.  Much of this success is due to the
in-hospital voluntary paternity establishment program begun by the
Clinton Administration in 1994, which encourages fathers to
acknowledge paternity at the time of the child's birth.

  A Record Increase in Child Support Collections.  In 1997, the state
and federal child support enforcement program collected a record $13.
4 billion for children, an increase of 68% from 1992, when $8 billion
was collected.  Not only are collections up, but the number of
families that are actually receiving child support has also
increased.  In 1997, the number of child support cases with
collections rose to 4.2 million, an increase of 48% from 2.8 million
in 1992.

  New Felony Penalties for Egregious Failure to Pay Child Support.
The President called for these tough new penalties in July 1996 and
again in his 1997 State of the Union address.  This new law creates
two new categories of felonies, with penalties of up to two years in
prison, for more egregious child support evaders:

   Traveling across state or country lines with the intent to evade
child support payments will now be considered a felony if the
obligation has remained unpaid for a period longer than one year or
is greater than $5,000.

   When the obligation has remained unpaid for a period of longer
than two years or is greater than $10,000, willful failure to pay
child support to a child residing in another state will be considered
a felony.

  This bill was sponsored in Congress by Representatives Hyde and
Hoyer and Senators DeWine and Kohl, and had overwhelming bipartisan
support in both houses.

  Responsible Bankruptcy Reform that Doesn't Hurt Children.  Finally,
the President will reiterate his position that bankruptcy reform
legislation should not make it harder to collect child support and
alimony.  The Administration will work with Congress to produce a
bankruptcy reform bill that asks responsibility of both creditors and
debtors, while stemming abuse.  In those discussions, the President
will continue to make protecting child support and alimony a top
priority.  The House and Senate bills still raise the concern that
additional debts will survive bankruptcy and compete with child
support and alimony payments for scarce funds.

 -0-
 /U.S. Newswire  202-347-2770/
 06/24 09:06

Copyright 1998, U.S. Newswire
- -----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. 
- -----------------------





**********************************************
To subscribe or unsubscribe, email:
     majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com
with the message:
     (un)subscribe ignition-point email@address
**********************************************
www.telepath.com/believer
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------- End of Forwarded Message





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Maksim Otstavnov" 
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 11:19:42 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: SORM: New ex-KGB moves in telecom
Message-ID: <199806251819.LAA21699@geocities.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

To whom it may concern:

The text between [Start of translation] and [End of translation] lines below
is a verbatim translation of the two drafts of documents which are currently
in the state of approvement by the two Russian ministries: Federal Security
Service (FSB, one of the five special services inheriting to KGB) and State
Committee on Communications (Goskomsvyaz'). The originals (and comments) are
available at the Libertarium Webpages (www.ice.ru/libertarium/sorm).

Inconsistencies of the original texts (including but not restrictive to:
paragraph misnumbering, language vagueness etc.) are left intact. I left the
two Russian abbreviations: SORM for the System of effitient research measures,
and FSB for the Federal Security Service, to avoid confusion in future.

In short: if approved, the rules will provide exKGB with technical facility to
_directly_ and covertly wiretap _any_ information transmitted via
telecommunication networks including telephone, telegraph, Internet etc. and
there will be no means to ensure KGBists obtained a court warrant (required by
Constitution and other federal legislation) before wiretapping.

Any informed comments (of legal and technological, not emotional nature) from
both organisations and from individual experts are welcome.

I am grateful to all involved with obtaining the documents. Hope some day I
will be in a position to mention them by their names...

- - Maksim Otstavnov

[Start of translation]

Approved                                                   
Deputy Director Federal Security Service
A.A.Bespalov
"____"___________1998

Confirmed
"____"___________1998

TECHNICAL  REQUIREMENTS 
TO THE SYSTEM OF TECHNICAL MEANS 
PROVIDING FOR THE FULLFILMENT OF EFFICIENT RESEARCH MEASURES 
IN THE DOCUMENTAL TELECOMMUNICATIONS NETWORKS

Approved
Head of the Telecommunications Management
A.Yu.Rokotyan
"____"___________1998Ç.

First Deputy to the Director General 
Of the Central Research Institute 
of the State Telecommunications of Russia
Yu.A.Alekseev
"____"___________1998Ç.

1. PURPOSE

1.1. The system of technical means destined to provide for the system of
efficient research measures (SORM) in the networks of the documental
telecommunications (NDTC) is being arranged at the basis of the Russian
Federation legislation and is meant to provide for technical support of the
above research measures in the telecommunications networks which are used for
supplying customers with telematic services, data transmission services, and
access to the world global information network of INTERNET. 

1.2 The actual technical requirements (TR) concern all NDTC regardless of
their forms of ownership formed previously or being currently formed according
to the Russian State Communications Committee licenses. 

1.3. SORM should provide for reading of all information (both incoming and
outgoing) belonging to the specific subscribers of the network(s) in question.

1.4. The actual TR should be observed regardless of what means of
information protection may be used in the NDTC.

1.5. The actual TR should be observed while providing additional services to
the NDTC subscribers.

1.6. The actual TR should be observed for each individual subscriber
regardless of the type of his connection to the DTC networks (individual or
collective). 

2. SET OF EQUIPMENT The set of SORM equipment should include:

  hardware and software means (HSM) providing for the requirements
fulfillment by SORM, these means should be part of the distant control center
(DCC) -  HSM SORM DCC;

  hardware and software means (HSM) providing for the requirements
fulfillment by SORM these means should be part of the NDTC node equipment -
HSM SORM NDTC;

  communication channel (communication lines and channeling hardware)
providing for establishing of communication between HSM SORM DCC and HSM
SORM NDTC; 

Note: The channeling hardware should be part of the HSM SORM NDTC equipment. 

  SORM software security and confidentiality protection means.

3. GENERAL REQUIREMENTS FOR THE SORM ORGANIZATION

3.1. NDTC SORM management should be controlled from the DCC by way of its
cooperation with the HSM SORM DCC via communication channels providing for
controlling commands transmission from the DCC to HSM SORM NDTC and for
information transmission from HSM SORM NDTC to the DCC. 

3.2 SORM should provide for transmission of the following information from the
HSM SORM NDTC to the DCC: 

  about the HSM SORM NDTC readiness; 

  about the results of DCC commands fulfillment; 

  about unauthorized interference with the HSM SORM NDTC work. 

3.3. SORM should provide for transmission to the DCC the NDTC
subscribers data base with the following information about subscribers at the
request of the DCC operator: 

  registration date in the DTC networks; 

  electronic address; 

  registration address; 

  additional services provided (including internet roaming (and voice
communication services). 

3.4. At the DCC command SORM should provide for receiving of the following
information pertaining to any individual user: 

  statistic information reading; 

  reading of information (both incoming and outgoing) belonging to specific
subscribers. 

Note: This command may be documented by the communications operator. 

3.5. SORM should provide for determination of: 

  subscriber's telephone number if he uses common carrier telephone line
(providing this line allows for this) for using telematic services and data
transmission;

  subscriber's electronic address if the latter uses other telecommunication
networks for using telematic services and data transmission. 

3.6. While reading statistical information SORM should provide for
transmission of the following information to the DCC HSM SORM NDTC: 

  period of work in the NDTC;

  telephone or commuted telephone line number or network address (of an other
network) used for NDTC access; 

  network addresses used for reception or transmission of information via
NDTC. 

3.7. While reading information SORM
should provide for transmission of the following information to the DCC HSM
SORM NDTC: 

  period of work in the NDTC; 

  telephone or commuted telephone line number or network address (other
network address) used for NDTC access; 

  real-time information transmitted via NDTC and belonging to specific
subscribers. 

3.8. The SORM reaction time from the moment of DCC command transmission to the
moment of its fulfillment confirmation by the HSM SORM NDTC reception should
not exceed 30 seconds (excluding the communication services access
discontinuation). 

4. HSM SORM NDTC AND HSM SORM DCC COMMUNICATION  INTERFACE 

4.1. Communication between SORM and DCC should be
conducted via the data transmission channel. 

4.2. Data transmission channel reservation should be provided. 

4.3. Switch to the reserve channel should be provided in case of the main
channel fault. 

4.4. The information exchange should be conducted via isolated communication
channel in a duplex regime at a speed not less than maximally allowed for the
NDTC subscribers. 

4.5. Interface of communication with the channeling equipment should comply
with the ITTU recommendations V.36, V.24, G.703. 

4.6. Protocol of digital data exchange between SORM and DCC should comply with
the X.25 ITTU recommendation (edition of 1995) for single chain LAPB
procedure. 

Note: When protocols used for the networks information exchange differ from
those recommended by the ITTU X.25 (such as TCP/IP), the protocol of
information exchange between SORM and DCC may differ from the protocol
mentioned in paragraph 4.6. as agreed with the FSB of Russia and the network
administration. 

4.7. The protocol of connection between SORM and DCC (the type of service
information, SORM/DCC interaction algorithm, arrangement of the information
transmission) should be defined in the process of SORM software development by
agreement with the FSB of Russia. 

5. SORM EFFICIENCY CONTROL 

5.1. Functional control of the SORM hardware and software efficiency against
the background of the NDTC equipment functioning should be provided for during
the exploitation. 

5.2. DCC should receive information concerning faults interfering with the
work of the NDTC SORM. 

5.3. Performance control of the information exchange channels between SORM and
DCC should be provided for. In case of the damage of information exchange
equipment data transmission should be cancelled and a corresponding message
should be transmitted to the maintenance personnel while automatic switch on
to the reserve channel should be fulfilled. 

6. UNAUTHORIZED INFORMATION ACCESS CONTROL 

6.1. The possibility of unauthorized interference with the process of
functioning and interaction between the HSM SORM NDTC and HSM SORM DCC should
be excluded. 

6.2. The possibility of unauthorized access to the data and software
providing for the HSM SORM NDTC interaction should be excluded. 

6.4. DCC should receive reports on all attempts of unauthorized access and
interference with the HSM SORM NDTC functioning. 

6.5. Information exchange between SORM and DCC should be secured. 

7. SORM INITIALIZING AND RESTART 

7.2. In case of SORM node software restart the information about this fact
should be transmitted to the DCC. 

7.3. Technological conditions of the SORM node software restart should
include the procedure of HSM SORM NDTC restart. 

7.4. A possibility of restarting part of the software controlling the work of
the HSM SORM NDTC should be provided for at the DCC command. 


_____________________________________________________________________________

Approved 
Deputy Director 
of the Federal Security Service 
of the Russian
Federation 
A.A.Bespalov 
"____"___________1998

Confirmed
"___"___________1998

THE ORDER OF IMPLEMENTATION OF THE SYSTEM OF THE EFFICIENT RESEARCH MEASURES
IN THE DOCUMENT TELECOMMUNICATIONS NETWORKS 

First Deputy to the Director General 
of the Central Research Institute 
of the State Telecommunications of Russia 
Yu.A.Alekseev

"____"___________1998


Administrations of the telecommunications documental networks (DTC) including
the services of data transmission, telematic services, Internet informational
resources access services that are guided by the "Technical  Requirements To
The System Of Technical Means Providing For  The Fullfilment Of Effecient
Research Measures In The Documental Telecommunications" should conduct the
following technical and administrative operations. A plan of measures to be
taken in order to implement the system of efficient research measures (SORM)
in the network consisting of two stages (the first stage may be missing)
should be developed and coordinated with the Federal Security Service of the
Russian Federation. 

The first stage - implementation of limited functions SORM using standard
equipment of the telecommunications provider, experimental running of the
system and evaluation of its compliance with the main technical SORM
requirements. 

The second stage - full fledged SORM implementation considering the results of
the experimental exploitation. The first stage provides for: 

1. Development and coordination with the FSB of the technological scheme and
SORM functioning algorithms at the telecommunications operator's network based
on the technical requirements. 

2. Correction if necessary of SORM technical requirements considering the
results of the first stage implementation. 

3. Development of the list of SORM hardware and software used at the first
stage and according to the results of the first stage (stating type, cost,
supply conditions and payer for each item). 

4. Preparation of proposals and coordination with the FSB of Russia of the
necessary communication protocols for data exchange between SORM equipment and
standard equipment of the telecommunications provider if the provider complies
with the SORM technical requirements (stage 2). 

5. Purchase and delivery of the SORM equipment in accordance with the list
provided by p. 3 

6. Allocation of necessary technical means for checking and tuning of the SORM
software at the provider's equipment. 

8. Organization of the intercity communication line between
telecommunications operator and the DCC.

9. Preparation of the exploitation and technical documentation for the SORM
including the regulations for the duty services interaction. 10. Testing and
tuning of the SORM hardware and software during interaction with the
telecommunications operator standard equipment. 

The first stage is completed as the SORM acceptance report is signed and it is
accepted for experimental exploitation as the result of the joint tests (FSB
as the contractor and the telecommunications operator as the performer.)

The second stage provides for:

1. Development of the SORM requirements for the telecommunications operator
equipment based on the "Technical  Requirements To The System Of Technical
Means Providing For  The Fulfillment Of Efficient Research Measures In The
Documental Telecommunications" (adjusted if necessary according to the results
of the first stage) containing the list of: 

  hardware and software means providing for the implementation of the SORM
requirements and included into the equipment of the node (nodes) of DTC
network - HSM SORM NDTC; 

  hardware and software means providing for implementation of the SORM
requirements and included into the DCC equipment - HSM SORM DCC; 

  type of channel for communication between NDTC and HSM SORM DCC; 

  type of equipment for the communication channel between the HSM SORM NDTC
and HSM SORM DCC; 

  the data exchange velocity between the HSM SORM NDTC and HSM SORM DCC; 

  protocol of the data exchange in the communication channel between HSM SORM
NDTC and HSM SORM DCC; 

  protocol of junction between HSM SORM NDTC and HSM SORM DCC; 

  information security and privacy protection software for the SORM.
Telecommunications operator should coordinate technical requirements with the
FSB of Russia. 

2. The specification of the specific hardware and software that should be
included as part of the standard equipment of the telecommunications operator
and of the DCC (stating type, cost, supply conditions and payer for each item)
is compiled according to the technical requirements. The specification is
coordinated by the telecommunications operator with the FSB of Russia organs. 

3. Technical design development for the SORM implementation by the
telecommunications operator's enterprise is fulfilled by the organization
licensed for the fulfillment of design works by the order of the
telecommunications operator. 

4. Development of the SORM technical exploitation documentation  including
regulation for duty services interaction. 

5. SORM equipment assembling at the telecommunications operator's enterprise
is fulfilled by the organization licensed for the fulfillment of assembling
works by the order of the telecommunications operator. 

6. Testing and tuning of the SORM software at the telecommunications
operator's equipment. 

7. Conducting joint SORM tests (FSB of the Russian Federation as a contractor
and the telecommunications operator as a performer). The second stage is
concluded with the SORM industrial exploitation acceptance report which is
jointly approved by the telecommunications operator management and the FSB of
Russia representatives. 

[End of translation]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0.1iRu
Charset: noconv

iQCVAwUBNZJq7XGCEHWOiJDhAQE6cwP9Fm9c8js94liPIbQa+UHUAsPFuOAmEUQd
QsMIlNgJjTtRvmoDZS6fjxYbLgbO4imEOtsKEeIMJsZqX8UC0er2tk7VO3eK0968
EzM8w3+t8yFLB98/tWGE9Ghz2HiZh/ywoRiGX8Y08ZkKitYgOk/Aq4EmBHVQp92X
ePOimdtAtdY=
=BdJi
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-- Maksim Otstavnov  http://www.ice.ru/otstavnov/
--   - chief, Labs of Civil & Financial Crypto
--   - editor, "CompuNomika" monthly
--   - maintainer of The Russian PGP HomePage




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Frantz 
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 23:32:36 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Skipjack extensibility
In-Reply-To: <199806250705.JAA31711@basement.replay.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 11:05 PM -0800 6/24/98, Anonymous wrote:
>NSA made a claim that Skipjack couldn't be extended past 80 bits of key. Most
>plausible explanation to my mind is that they're lying. Second is that
>there is
>an attack against a class of Skipjack-like ciphers that requires only a few
>plaintexts and 2^80 operations. Third is that some common key-lengthening
>tricks like those for 2-key-3DES, DES-X, and DEAL fail when applied to
>Skipjack. I can hardly fathom one resistant to all three, but I guess it's
>possible with NSA.

3DES is useful because DES does not form a group.  To the best of my
knowledge, Skipjack has not been analysed in this area (outside of Never
Say Anything).


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz       | If hate must be my prison  | Periwinkle -- Consulting
(408)356-8506     | lock, then love must be    | 16345 Englewood Ave.
frantz@netcom.com | the key.     - Phil Ochs   | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Jean-Francois Avon" 
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 22:35:50 -0700 (PDT)
To: "Cypherpunks" 
Subject: RE: CIA 4 Nags: Hackers Crypto Y2K Foreigners
Message-ID: <199806260547.BAA05417@cti06.citenet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Thu, 25 Jun 1998 12:18:44 -0700, Ernest Hua wrote:

>Now, if, next week, someone demonstrates a gun or some other physical
>offensive weapon easily manufacturable using off the shelf parts at $10
>a pop with less than $50 start-up costs (these numbers must include the
>entire mechanism; in the case of a gun, it would include the bullets).


Operational homemade firearms are often found to have been built by convicts in high security prisons...

Check with the NRA or with the NFA (Canada)
 e-mail: nfadat@telusplanet.net   Web site: http://nfa.ca/

Ask David Tomlinson for info on the topic, he'll tell you...

Ciao

jfa







Definition:  FACISM: n.:  a political and economic movement, strongly nationalistic, magnifying the rights of the state as opposed to those of the individual, in which industry, though remaining largely under private ownership, and all administrative
political units, are controlled by a strong central government.
        -------------------------------------------------
"One of the ordinary modes by which tyrants accomplish their purpose, without resistance, is by disarming the people and making it an offense to keep arms".  - Joseph Story, U.S. Supreme Court Justice.
        -------------------------------------------------
the German gun control laws were enacted by the "liberal" Weimar Republic government that preceded Hitler, and were a strong aid to his coming to power -- because they disarmed Hitler's opponents, and Hitler's adherents ignored them -- as criminals have always ignored gun control laws.

Disarming the public is a frequent first step toward dictatorships and genocides.  Once the disarming is complete, the public is helpless against those who have the guns.        -------------------------------------------------

PGP keys: http://bs.mit.edu:8001/pks-toplev.html
PGP ID:C58ADD0D:529645E8205A8A5E F87CC86FAEFEF891 
PGP ID:5B51964D:152ACCBCD4A481B0 254011193237822C



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: deal447@hotmail.com
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 04:03:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Don't Miss These!
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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at $9.95 each plus $3.00 for shipping and handling per tape
[$12.95 per video or "SPECIAL $51.80 for ALL FIVE"!

Credit Card #______________________________Exp Date___

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My date of birth is_________________________________

Signature______________________________________________

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To remove your name from our mailing list, send us an email with 
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TREES and support internet E-Mail instead of paper mail!

[C] Copyright TCPS 1998















































From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 01:56:34 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: ACLU Action Update 06-25-98 -- Victory!  (fwd)
Message-ID: <19980626091418.18178.qmail@hades.rpini.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


---------------------------------------------------------------
06-25-98
ACLU Action Update
----------------------------------------------------------------

TO:	 Action Network
FR:	 Penny Crawley, Cyber Organizer (pcrawley@aclu.org)
DT:	 June 25, 1998

1. Victims' Rights Amendment
2. Child Custody Protection:/"Teen Endagerment" Act
3. New E-mail address

1.  We did it! With both the House and Senate now adjourned for the Fourth of
July recess,  "Amend the Constitution Month" in Congress has come to an end a
victory: the Constitution remains intact!

The Senate Judiciary met briefly this morning to consider the so-called
Victims' Rights Amendment (SJ Res. 44), the last of the three amendments
targeted by the Republican leadership for passage during June.  Although there
was a brief debate on this measure, the Committee adjourned for the recess
without taking action.  It is anticipated that it will take up the proposed
amendment shortly after Senators return to Washington on July 6.

A new website can be found on the Internet containing editorials and other
resources (testimony, position statements and letters to Congress) on why a
constitutional amendment is the wrong way to assist victims of crime.  The
site is located at:

http://soiroom.hyperchat.com/celestin/vrainfo.html

ACTION NEEDED:

A. Urge your U.S. Senators to honor the founding of our nation this Fourth of
July by preserving the original Bill of Rights and voting against the victims'
rights amendment by sending a FREE FAX from the ACLU website at:

http://www.aclu.org/action/victim.html

B. Because no advocacy tactic is more effective than personal interaction,
push home the point about preserving the Bill of Rights during any public
appearance your Senators make during the Fourth of July recess. 

2.  Child Custody Protection/"Teen Endangerment" Bill

Like the Victims' Rights amendment, action on the anti-choice Child Custody
Protection Act (S 1645/HR 3682), which was also on today's agenda in the
Senate Judiciary Committee, was postponed when the Committee adjourned for
recess.  It, too, is expected to be taken up when Senators return to the
Capitol.

ACTION NEEDED:

Urge your Senators to oppose this misguided bill, which would intrude into
Americans' private relationships, isolate young women by discouraging them
from seeking the caring support of a trusted adult, and endanger their lives
by forcing them to travel alone to an abortion provider and back home after
the surgery.  Send a FREE FAX from the ACLU website at:

http://www.aclu.org/action/custody.html

3. My e-mail address has changed!  All future e-mail should be sent to:

pcrawley@aclu.org 

Please update any listings in your address book to reflect the change.  (My
AOL address will remain active until July 31, 1998.)

----------------------------------------------------------------
ONLINE RESOURCES FROM THE ACLU NATIONAL OFFICE
----------------------------------------------------------------

ACLU Freedom Network Web Page:  http://www.aclu.org.  
Constitution Hall on America Online (keyword ACLU)

----------------------------------------------------------------
ACLU Action Update
ACLU National Washington Office
122 Maryland Avenue NE 
Washington, DC 20002

To subscribe to the ACLU Action List, send a message to majordomo@aclu.org
with "subscribe action" in the body of the message. To end your
subscription, send a message to majordomo@aclu.org with "unsubscribe
action" in the body of the message.

For general information about the ACLU, write to info@aclu.org
This Message sent to
action





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "S. M. Halloran" 
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 23:24:55 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: "deadbeat parents"
In-Reply-To: <199806260405.VAA23457@netcom3.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <199806260522.IAA08459@ankara.192.168.3.5>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On 25 Jun 98, Vladimir Z. Nuri was found to have commented thusly:

> apparently one of the 4 horsemen of the infocalypse...?!?!
> whatever can be used as an excuse to take away rights, eh?
> 
> 
[news clip  regarding new Deadbeat Parents federal law excised]

I have a strong feeling that this new law is going to turn around and bite 
the Great Society II (GSII) advocates in their federal ass.  Considering 
some of the minimum limits regarding child support sums in arrears, it 
really won't take any time for prominent members, subscribers, and 
believers in GSII, including Friends of Bill and Friends of Hillary, to 
find themselves on the other side of a federal arrest warrant.  The $5000 
limit could be reached in a matter of a few months, it seems, for quite a 
few of even the "middle-class" child support payers.  (Anyone reading this 
who pays child support willing to divulge how many months it would take 
for them to reach that limit?)  I don't believe that deadbeat parents 
should evade their responsibility, but this law pretty much is the wrong 
way to deal with it.

Prosecutors of any stripe are not going to bother with making a judgment 
regarding 'intent', which they probably don't consider their duty anyway. 
They will have a formulae all worked out in concert with the presiding 
judge--whose duty should be the 'justice' end of any bum rap, deciding the 
issue of 'intent'--to nail anyone who violates the letter (and disregard 
the question of the violation of the spirit) of the law.  The poor will 
necessarily cop a plea and probably do some federal time AND/or find 
themselves assessed federal fines that will essentially make them 
indentured servants to the state for years.  The rich will work a deal to 
stay out of prison since the feds don't want to waste time with the 
delaying tactics of their savvy lawyers.

Perhaps at some point, after thousands of well-meaning but misfortunate 
parents find themselves considered felons in their society because they 
got behind in the support although there was no clear intent to do so, the 
law or certain elements of it will be sensibly repealed or reformed to 
target those whose intent to evade is really indisputable.  There are 
probably as well "minor" provisions and clauses in the law not reported in 
the news clip, but which certainly make life impossible for the well-
meaning to obtain complete rehabilitation;  those parts of the code would 
need attention as well.


Mitch Halloran
Research (Bio)chemist
Duzen Laboratories Group
Ankara   TURKEY
mitch@duzen.com.tr

"Tonight, again, the strong and arrogant opponent
           felt the bitter taste of defeat at your hands"
---Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, addressing the jubilant Iranian soccer team
        whose very unexpected victory over the US eliminated them
        from the France 1998 World Cup




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Steve Orrin" 
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 07:27:48 -0700 (PDT)
To: "Cypherpunks Algebra" 
Subject: RSA and Others work on SSL Fix
Message-ID: <199806261426.JAA08740@dfw-ix14.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


FYI



RSA DATA SECURITY WORKS WITH INTERNET SOFTWARE VENDORS TO RESPON
6/26/98 7:19

 to Potential
                 Security Attack on Secure Web Communications

    SAN MATEO, Calif., June 26 /PRNewswire/ -- RSA Data Security, Inc.
today
announced it is working with a group of leading Internet software vendors
on
pre-emptive countermeasures to thwart a newly-discovered potential attack
against secure Web communications.  This vulnerability is currently the
subject of research and has not been reported by any users.
    These countermeasures enhance the security of popular Internet server
software products based on the Secure Sockets Layer (SSL) protocol.  The
countermeasures are, or will be, available from respective vendors' Web
sites,
and include configuration guidelines, software updates where applicable and
additional information.  Currently available vendor information may be
found
at the following sites:

    * C2Net Software, Inc.
    http://www.c2.net
    * Consensus Development Corporation
    http://www.consensus.com/ssl-rsa.html
    * IBM Corporation
    http://www.ibm.com/security
    * Lotus Development Corporation
    http://www.lotus.com/security
    * Microsoft Corporation
    http://www.microsoft.com/security
    * Netscape Communications Corporation
    http://help.netscape.com/products/server/ssldiscovery/index.html
    * Open Market, Inc.
    http://www.openmarket.com/security
    * RSA Data Security, Inc.
    http://www.rsa.com/rsalabs/

    RSA will also maintain an updated list of all vendors' countermeasure
site
links at its site. In addition, RSA has been working closely with the CERT
Coordination Center on this problem. CERT has made a technical advisory on
this vulnerability available at http://www.cert.org.
    These countermeasures address a potential vulnerability discovered by
cryptographer Daniel Bleichenbacher of the Secure Systems Research
Department
of Bell Labs, the research and development arm of Lucent Technologies.
Bleichenbacher identified a cryptanalytic vulnerability that could
potentially
be used to discover the key for a particular encrypted session through a
process of repeatedly sending on the order of one million carefully
constructed messages to a target server and observing the server's
response.
Due to the large number of messages needed, the potential attack is
detectable
by network administrators.  Additional information is available on the Bell
Labs Web site at http://www.bell-labs.com.
    The vulnerability affects interactive key establishment protocols that
use
the Public Key Cryptography Standard (PKCS) #1, including SSL.  The PKCS
series of standards are defined by RSA Laboratories, reviewed by industry
and
have been adopted by many major vendors of information systems and
incorporated in national and international standards.  The vulnerability
does
not apply to PKCS #1-based secure messaging protocols, such as Secure
Electronic Transactions (SET) and Secure Multipurpose Internet Mail
Extension
(S/MIME) because they are not susceptible to, or already implement
mechanisms
preventing this potential vulnerability.
    A technical overview of the attack and recommended countermeasures for
installed SSL-based server software are available now on the RSA Labs Web
site
at http://www.rsa.com/rsalabs/.
    Software developers interested in testing their products for this
potential vulnerability should visit RSA's site at http://www.rsa.com where
they can find diagnostic instructions and prescriptive information for
updating their applications.   In  July, RSA plans to provide developers
using
the company's BSAFE security suite with free software enhancements designed
to
eliminate this threat.
    RSA Laboratories plans to release for comment a draft PKCS #1 v2 in
July
following a revision process that began early in the year.

    RSA Data Security, Inc.
    RSA Data Security, Inc., a wholly owned subsidiary of Security Dynamics
Technologies, Inc. (Nasdaq: SDTI), is a leading supplier of software
components that secure electronic data, with more than 300 million copies
of
RSA encryption and authentication technologies installed worldwide.  RSA
technologies are part of existing and proposed standards for the Internet
and
World Wide Web, ISO, ITU-T, ANSI, IEEE, and business, financial and
electronic
commerce networks around the globe.  RSA develops and markets platform-
independent security components and related developer kits and provides
comprehensive cryptographic consulting services.  RSA can be reached at
http://www.rsa.com.

    All products and companies mentioned herein may be trademarks or
registered trademarks of their respective holdings and are hereby
recognized.

SOURCE  RSA Data Security, Inc.
    -0-                             06/26/98
    /CONTACT:  Patrick Corman, Corman Communications, 650-326-9648,
patrick@cormancom.com/
    /Web site:  http://www.rsa.com/
    (SDTI)

CO:  RSA Data Security, Inc.
ST:  California
IN:  CPR
SU:



-0- (PRN) Jun/26/98   07:03
EOS   (PRN)    Jun/26/98    07:04      86

-0- (PRN) Jun/26/  98    7:19






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: CTIA Daily News 
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 10:02:33 -0700 (PDT)
To: CTIA Daily News 
Subject: CTIA Daily News from WOW-COM - June 26, 1998
Message-ID: <199806261646.LAA26369@revnet4.revnet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



=============================================
Welcome to today's edition of the CTIA Daily News
from WOW-COM.  Please click on the icon / attachment
for the most important news in wireless communications today.

CALEA Summit being held July 21 & 22 in Washington, DC.
Register Now!!  Call (202) 785-0081
=============================================


From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 12:37:06 -0700 (PDT)
To: ukcrypto@maillist.ox.ac.uk
Subject: ?
Message-ID: <3593F79B.797B@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Friday 6/26/98 1:23 PM

John Young

I wonder what the effect of all of the like

  http://www.jya.com/rsa-pkcs1.htm

and other materials you have posted at http://www.jya.com/crypto.htm
are going to be on those controlling the money?  

Some key congressmen and their advisors.

Crypto, in my mind, represents pseudomathematics at its finest.

Also, the guy that is going to break-in will do it before encryption or 
after decryption. 

http://www.aci.net/kalliste/ricono.htm

Or, of course, TRANSMIT THE KEY WITH THE CYPHERTEXT!

My mind is getting back to finishing the digital FX - and revising
my book!

Morales and I do not know what to make of Mitchell's JUN 22 motion.

But, with us now complaining to the Senate Judiciary Committee, WITH
HARD DOCKET EVIDENCE of wrongdoing life for lawyers is now more
complicated.

I will respond to the JUN 22 motion about next Wednesday.

Won't be hard.  This is an INSIDE JOB.  I KNOW where the documents
are since I know the AUTHORS.  No search is required.

This should be settled before it gets WORSE.

Later
bill

http://www.apcatalog.com/cgi-bin/AP?ISBN=0125475705&LOCATION=US&FORM=FORM2

http://www-hto.usc.edu/software/seqaln/doc/html/gfsr.3.html


Subject: 
        Judicial Misconduct at Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals
  Date: 
        Mon, 22 Jun 1998 13:29:01 -0600
  From: 
        bill payne 
    To: 
        art morales , senator_hatch@Hatch.senate.gov, senator@thurmond.senate.gov,
        chuck_grassley@grassley.senate.gov, senator_specter@specter.senate.gov, 
senator_thompson@thompson.senate.gov,
        info@kyl.senate.gov, senator_dewine@dewine.senate.gov, john_ashcroft@ashcroft.senate.gov, 
michigan@abraham.senate.gov,
        senator_leahy@leahy.senate.gov, senator@kennedy.senate.gov, senator@biden.senate.gov, 
senator_kohl@kohl.senate.gov,
        senator@feinstein.senate.gov, russell_feingold@feingold.senate.gov, dick@durbin.senate.gov, 
senator@torricelli.senate.gov
    CC: 
        steve dillingham <" Steven.Dillingham"@hq.doe.gov>, Robert Nordhaus <" 
Robert.Nordhaus"@hq.doe.gov>, mrgall@ix.netcom.com,
        jy@jya.com, art morales , federico pena <" Federico.F.Pena"@hq.doe.gov>, 
RJPARK@sandia.gov,
        cypherpunks@toad.com, ukcrypto@maillist.ox.ac.uk


Monday 6/22/98 1:02 PM

Senate Judiciary Committee
http://www.senate.gov/committee/judiciary.html

Republicans

Orrin G. Hatch, Utah, Chairman   senator_hatch@Hatch.senate.gov
Strom Thurmond, South Carolina   senator@thurmond.senate.gov
Charles E. Grassley, Iowa   chuck_grassley@grassley.senate.gov
Arlen Specter, Pennsylvania   senator_specter@specter.senate.gov
Fred Thompson, Tennessee   senator_thompson@thompson.senate.gov
Jon Kyl, Arizona   info@kyl.senate.gov
Mike DeWine, Ohio   senator_dewine@dewine.senate.gov
John Ashcroft, Missouri   john_ashcroft@ashcroft.senate.gov
Spencer Abraham, Michigan   michigan@abraham.senate.gov
Jeff Sessions, Alabama

Democrats

Patrick J. Leahy, Vermont   senator_leahy@leahy.senate.gov
Edward M. Kennedy, Massachusetts   senator@kennedy.senate.gov
Joseph R.Biden, Jr., Delaware   senator@biden.senate.gov
Herb Kohl, Wisconsin   senator_kohl@kohl.senate.gov
Dianne Feinstein, California   senator@feinstein.senate.gov
Russell D. Feingold, Wisconsin   russell_feingold@feingold.senate.gov
Richard Durbin, Illinois   dick@durbin.senate.gov
Robert Torricelli, New Jersey   senator@torricelli.senate.gov

Purpose of this e-mail is to give written proof of criminal judicial
misconduct by Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals clerks Hoecker, Fisher, and
Judges Moore, Barrett, Weis and help get this matter settled.

Thursday March 30, 1995 I wrote Tenth Circuit clerk Hoecker to request a
copy of the docket sheets for case 94-2205  Payne v. Sandia Corporation,
et al

Hoecker did not answer my letter.

On Tuesday March 5,1996 I  wrote  Judge Lucius D. Bunton to ask his help
to get a copy of the docket sheets.  No response.

On Monday September 23, 1996 Arthur R Morales and I wrote  Henry A.
Politz, Chief Judge U.S. Court of Appeals - Fifth Circuit to ask his
help to get a copy of the docket sheets of my case and Morales' Tenth
Circuit case 95-2204.

Tenth Circuit also refused to send Morales copies of docket sheets for
his case.

Politz is Bunton's boss.  No response.

Friday May 30, 1997 I wrote Antonin Scalia to get this help to get a
copy of the docket sheets.  No response.

5 May 1998 citizen John Young finds docket sheets on

    Source: PACER, U.S. Court of Appeals, 10th Circuit, 1-800-279-9107

and posts them on Internet at http://jya.com/whp-10usca.htm

  Docket as of April 10, 1998 0:05 am
  Proceedings include all events.
  94-2205  Payne v. Sandia Corporation, et al

shows that I filed my Brief of the Appellant on 2/19/95.

2/23/95     [835344] Appellant's brief filed by William H. Payne.
            Original and 7 copies.   c/s: y. Served on 2/19/95  Oral
            argument? pro se. Appellee/Respondent's brief due 3/24/95
            for Thomas P. Wright, for Robert Surran, for Paul A.
            Stokes, for Mary J. Stang, for Tommy A. Sellers, for Craig
            A. Searls, for Albert Narath, for Preston B. Herrington,
            for Peter S. Hamilton, for Roger L. Hagengruber, for James
            R. Gosler, for Harold L. Folley, for Robert L. Ewing, for
            C. William Childers, for Harvey J. Brewster, for Sandia
            Corporation (mbm)

mbm writes "Appellee/Respondent's brief due 3/24/95"

Sandia had sent me a copy of its brief by 3/28/96.

I filed  attached MOTION TO GRANT PLAINTIFF-APPELLANT'S DEMANDS ON BASIS
THAT DEFENDANT-APPELLEES FAILED TO FILE BRIEF WITHIN 30 DAYS SPECIFIED
BY FEDERAL RULE OF APPELLATE PROCEDURE 31 on Tuesday the 28th day of
March, 1995

My February 28 MOTION at the Tenth Circuit is filed WITHOUT notice of
service logged.

4/4/95       [845484] Appellant's motion filed by Appellant William H.
             Payne [94-2205] to grant appellant's demands on basis that
             appellees' failed to file timely brief. Original and 3
             copies  c/s: y (mbm)

In 1995 FRAP 25 (a) stated  "[b]riefs shall be deemed filed on the day
of mailing if the 
most expeditious form of delivery by mail, excepting special delivery,
is used."

FRAP 25 has been changed by 1998 to
http://www.ca5.uscourts.gov/docs/frap-iop.htm#25a

Since I mailed Appellant's motion filed by Appellant William H.  Payne
[94-2205] to grant appellant's demands on basis that appellees' failed
to file timely brief on 3/28/98, it is likely Sandia's lawyer Friedman
received it 3/29/95.

Tenth Circuit logs

3/30/95      [844759] Appellee's brief filed by Sandia Corporation,
             Harvey J. Brewster, C. William Childers, Robert L. Ewing,
             Harold L. Folley, James R. Gosler, Roger L. Hagengruber,
             Peter S. Hamilton, Preston B. Herrington, Albert Narath,
             Craig A. Searls, Tommy A. Sellers, Mary J. Stang, Paul A.
             Stokes, Robert Surran, Thomas P. Wright. Original and 7
             copies. c/s: y. Served on 3/27/95  Oral Argument? y
             (appellant is pro se) Appellant's optional reply brief due
             4/13/95 for William H. Payne (mbm)

Federal Rule of Appellate Procedure [FRAP] 26 (c) states

  (c) Additional Time after Service. When a party is required or
permitted to act within a      prescribed period after service of a
paper upon that party, 3 calendar days are added to the     prescribed
period unless the paper is delivered on the date of service stated in
the proof of   service. 

  http://www.ca5.uscourts.gov/docs/frap-iop.htm#26c

While the Tenth Circuit ASSERTS Appellees' brief was, in fact, served on
3/27/95
evidence given below points to the brief  was served, in fact, on
3/29/95.  

I allege that Friedman affixed a false date of service to Sandia's
brief.

I WAS NEVER PROPERLY SERVED.  I wrote

          Wednesday March 29, 1995

          Dan Friedman
          Simons, Cuddy & Friedman
          Pecos Trail Office Compound
          1701 Old Pecos Trail
          POB 4160
          Santa Fe, NM 87502-4160
          505-988-4476
          505-984-1807 FAX

          Dear Lawyer Friedman:

          Today at 14:00 hours I found a green and white about 9x13
          inch envelope in our mail box at my home.

          Mailing label indicated that the envelope came from your
          firm.  CONFIDENTIAL was stamped on the mailing label.

          I  wrote "Received at 14:00 hours on W 3/29/95 with no
          POSTMARK OR STAMP by W. H. Payne" at the bottom of the
          envelope.

          There was no STAMP OR POSTAGE METER LABEL or 
          POSTMARK on the envelope.

          Therefore, I gave the envelope to US Postal Service
          supervisor Mel at 14:49 hours today at the Postal Receiving
          station at 9904 Montgomery, NW in Albuquerque.  Mel has a
          copy of the cover of the envelope with Mel's note written on
          it.

          Mel told me the post office was going to return the envelope
          to your firm for proper mailing.

          I ask:

         1    What did this envelope contain?  Please identify
              the documents precisely.

         2    If any Certificates of Service were included in the
              envelope, then what were the dates affixed to these
              documents?

         3    Who placed this envelope in our mail box?

         Lawyer Friedman:  It appears you missed an important filing
         date.  And are in the process of attempt to correct your
         failure.  But may be using illegitimate methods to conceal
         your failure.

         Please respond as soon as possible so that we all may
         discover what has happened here." ...

Lawyer Friedman did not respond to the above letter.

But Friedman did mail me Appellees' brief many days later in envelope
showing TRUE MAILING date.  Certificate of service on received
Appellees' brief
did not reflect postmark date.

10th Cir. R. 25.4 in 1995 page 62 reads
  
  Papers not accepted for filing. -- The clerk shall not file papers
that do not comply
  with the Federal Rules of Appellate Procedure and these rules See
10thCir. R. 42.1

But Tenth Circuit clerks Fisher and Hoecker despite my protests and
submission of
evidence may have stamped FILED on Sandia's IMPROPERLY SERVED 
Appellee/Respondent's brief according to the Federal Rules of Appellate
Procedure.

Laywer Friedman FALSIFIED THE CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE.   

Friedman DID NOT MAIL ME "Served on 3/27/95."

d) Proof of Service; Filing. A paper presented for filing shall contain
an acknowledgment of service by the   person served or proof of service
in the form of a statement of the date and manner of service, of the
name of the person served, and of the addresses to which the papers were
mailed or at which they were delivered, certified by the person who made
service. Proof of service may appear on or be affixed to the papers
filed. When a brief or appendix is filed by mailing or dispatch in
accordance with Rule 25(a)(2)(B), the proof of service shall also state
the date and manner by which the document was mailed or dispatched to
the clerk.

  http://www.ca5.uscourts.gov/docs/frap-iop.htm#25a
  
Crime apparently committed by Hoecker and Fisher is

§ 1017. Government seals wrongfully used and instruments wrongfully
sealed 

Whoever fraudulently or wrongfully affixes or impresses the seal of any
department or agency of the United States, to or upon any certificate,
instrument, commission, document, or paper or with knowledge of its
fraudulent character, with wrongful or fraudulent intent, uses, buys,
procures, sells, or transfers to another any such certificate,
instrument, commission, document, or paper, to which or upon which said
seal has been so fraudulently affixed or impressed, shall be fined under
this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both. 
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/1017.shtml

Despite my protests of judicial misconduct Judges Moore, Barrett, Weis
award decision to Sandia

10/6/95      [890055] Order filed by Judges Moore, Barrett, Weis
             "...All outstanding motions are denied..." (found in Order
             & Judgment of 10/6/95) [879579-1]  Parties served by mail.
             (pdw)

when these judges should not have had Appellees' brief before them.

Then in an apparently attempt to conceal what happened

10/6/95     [890076]  NOTE: THIS ENTIRE CASE IS SEALED. Terminated on
            the Merits after Submission Without Oral Hearing; Judgment
            Affirmed; Written, Signed, Unpublished. Moore, authoring
            judge; Barrett; Weis. [94-2205] (pdw)

I WON MY APPEAL, pro se, ON A TECHNICALITY but judges Judges Moore,
Barrett, Weis
awarded the win to Sandia Labs!

Members of Congress, judicial misconduct in this matter has been
well-documented.  Court records
filed with the Tenth Circuit.  But CURRENTLY under seal.

Lawyers involved in this matter attempt to use the legal strategy of
IGNORE and STONEWALL to
attempt to deny me justice.  

Ignoring and stonewalling by lawyers forced Morales and me to seek
visibility so lawyers
could no longer ignore and stonewall.

Lawyer attitude apparently is that they ignore rules of civil procedure
or even the law so long
as their actions are invisible to public scrutiny.

Visibility was achieved by suing the National Security Agency which
revealed even more judicial misconduct http://www.jya.com/whp052898.htm.

I would like to settle all  matters involved with this unfortunate
cyrpto-related matter,
which includes criminal violations of the Privacy Act.

DOE lawyer Steve Dillingham asked me to prepare a settlement offer in
1994.  I wrote a
settlement letter  May 22, 1994 to Dillingham.  Nothing happened.

June 11, 1998 I made several modifications to my 1994 settlement letter
and sent it e-mail
to Robert Nordhaus, Chief Counsel, DOE.

I ask that you

1  help with settlement of my six-year-old since I won my appeal at the
Tenth Circuit,
2  investigate Tenth Circuit case 94-2205  Payne v. Sandia Corporation,
et al to bring
   the guilty to justice.

Sincerely

william payne

505 292 7037  I am not reading e-mail

http://jya.com/whpfiles.htm
http://www.apcatalog.com/cgi-bin/AP?ISBN=0125475705&LOCATION=US&FORM=FORM2
http://www-hto.usc.edu/software/seqaln/doc/html/gfsr.3.html

Coauthor Lewis in the above is one of my former MS and PhD students in
computer science.

http://www.friction-free-economy.com/



Monday 6/22/98 1:04 PM

Members of Congress

Purpose of this e-mail is to give written proof of criminal judicial
misconduct by Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals clerks Hoecker, Fisher, and
Judges Anderson, Barrett, Logan and request a congressional
investigation.

After several years, with Payne, of trying to get Tenth Circuit to send
docket sheets from my case,
citizen John Young  http://www.jya.com/index.htm  locates docket sheets
and posts them
    
  Morales Case Dockets 10th USCA                    June 12, 1998

on Internet at http://www.jya.com/arm061298.htm.

  Source: Online records Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals via PACER 

  GENERAL DOCKET FOR
  Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals

  Court of Appeals Docket #: 95-2204                           Filed:
9/29/95
  Nsuit: 3440
  Morales v. Sandia National Lab.
  Appeal from: United States District Court for the District of New
Mexico

I filed

11/9/95     [898274] Appellant's brief filed by Arthur R. Morales.
            Original and 2 copies.   c/s: y. Served on 11/7/95.  Oral
            argument? pro se. Appellee's brief due 12/11/95 for Sandia
            National Lab. (pdw)

Sandia files its FIRST ATTEMPT at

12/11/95   [905033] Appellee's deficient brief filed by Sandia
           National Lab.. Appellee's corrected brief due 12/21/95 for
           Sandia National Lab.  additional copies received 12/11/95.
           (fg)

Tenth Circuit court clerk Patrick Fisher writes Wells on December 11,
1995
concerning Sandia's deficient brief

  [C]orrections, however made, must be accompanied by proof of service
  upon all other parties to the appeal. ...

and issues

12/14/95   [905975] FIRST notice of rules violation for Deborah D.
           Wells for Appellee Sandia National Lab. (sls)

Wells submits

12/21/95    [907974] Appellee's brief filed by Sandia National Lab..
            Original and 7 copies.   c/s: y. Served on 12/20/95  Oral
            Argument? n Appellant's optional reply brief due 1/8/96 for
            Arthur R. Morales (mbm)

but DOES NOT serve me with a copy.

Wells later admits in

2/1/96        [917660] Response filed by Sandia National Lab.
              Appellant/Petitioner motion to clarify   Original and 3
              copies.  c/s: y response Null Relief Code (fg)

Certificate of Service date 30th day of January, 1996,

  [h]ad Appellant simply made a phone call to the Tenth Circuit, he
could
  have established that the Defendant-Appellee's corrected brief was
indeed
  filed on a timely basis, ...

I protested by filing

1/3/96       [909965] Appellant's motion "for the Court to Grant
             Appeal" filed by Appellant Arthur R. Morales [95-2204].
             Original and 3 copies.  c/s: y. (pdw)

1/3/96       [909966] Appellant's motion "for New Trial" filed by
             Appellant Arthur R. Morales [95-2204]. Original and 3
             copies.  c/s: y. (pdw)

1/3/96       [909967] Appellant's motion "to Discipline
             Defendant-Appellee" filed by Appellant Arthur R. Morales
             [95-2204]. Original and 3 copies.  c/s: y. (pdw)

because Sandia did not properly serve me in violation of Fisher's
December
11, 1995 order.

The Tenth Circuit court of appeals should NOT, by its own rules, filed
Appellee's brief filed by Sandia National Lab..  Original and 7
copies.   
c/s: y. Served on 12/20/95

10th Cir. R. 25.4 in 1995 page 62 reads
  
  Papers not accepted for filing. -- The clerk shall not file papers
that do not comply
  with the Federal Rules of Appellate Procedure and these rules See
10thCir. R. 42.1

And is doubtful whether court clerk Fisher had any authority under
appellate procedure
to permit Wells to correct her deficient brief.  

Rather Sandia's  brief did not comply with with Federal Rules of
Appellate Procedure and should have been summarily rejected for filing.

I WON, pro se, my appeal to the Tenth circuit on a technicality but
Judges Anderson, Barrett, Logan
awarded the win to Sandia Labs.

4/2/96        [932848] Order filed by Judges Anderson, Barrett, Logan
              denying parties' motions for general relief(found in Order
              and Judgment of 4/2/96)--"...During the course of this
              appeal, the parties have filed various motions for
              dismissal, summary grant, and sanctions. We find no merit
              to any of these motions, and they are [920851-1] Parties
              served by mail. (pdw)

by accepting and judging on a documents which was not permitted to be
before the court by
its own rules.

Judicial misconduct in my case has been well-documented as it is in
Payne's case.

Payne and I speculate that similar judicial misconduct may have occurred
at the Tenth Circuit.

Sandia lawyer Robert J Park wrote me a settlement letter on Feb 18,
1998.

I filled in the blanks and made minor handwritten chages and returned it
on February 22, 1998.  

But my offer has not yet been accepted.

I ask that you

1  help have my settlement offer accepted,
2  investigate judicial misconduct in case 95-2204 and punish the
guilty.

Some citizens can only express such frustrations with the US court
system with violence.

I seek change by legal reform.

Sincerely

Arthur R Morales
505 345 1381



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 18:14:13 -0700 (PDT)
To: cryptography@c2.net
Subject: Lucent Researcher Cracks PKCS#1, SSL
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980626181343.0098a8e0@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


http://www.rsa.com/rsalabs/pkcs1/
http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/zdnn_display/0,3440,332372,00.html



Lucent researcher cracks encryption code

By Margaret Kane, ZDNet

An encryption researcher has discovered a software flaw that could allow 
a hacker to break the software codes used for electronic commerce.

The problem protocols use the Public Key Cryptography Standard #1, 
including the Secure Sockets Layer, or SSL standard. RSA Data Security 
Inc., which defined the standard, said that the vulnerability does not
apply to PKCS #1-based secure messaging protocols, such as Secure 
Electronic Transactions and Secure Multipurpose Internet Mail Extension 
because they are not susceptible to -- and already implement --
mechanisms preventing this potential vulnerability. But at a Web site 
using SSL, a hacker could break the code by sending millions of messages 
to the target server and observing the server's response.

That information could be used to decode an intercepted session, said 
Daniel Bleichenbacher, a researcher at Lucent Technologies Inc.'s 
(Nasdaq:LU) Bell Labs. 

A slew of software companies announced today that they are working on a 
patch for the problem, and will post it on their Web sites. RSA, a 
division of Security Dynamics 
Technologies, (Nasdaq:SDTI) said it is working with IBM (Nasdaq:IBM), 
Microsoft Corp.(Nasdaq:MSFT), Netscape 
Communications Corp. (Nasdaq:NSCP), Open Market Inc. (Nasdaq:OMKT), and 
others on the problem. 

RSA is also working with the CERT Coordination Center on the problem, 
which has posted a technical advisory about the situation. 

Reuters contributed to this story. 


++++++++++++++++++ Extracted From Another web page there m+++++++++++++
http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/zdnn_display/0,3440,332372,00.html

SSL flaw could expose encrypted data

A researcher at Lucent Technologies Inc.'s Bell Laboratories has discovered a vulnerability in the SSL encryption commonly used in electronic commerce transactions.



The flaw, which has been exposed only in a laboratory setting, would allow a hacker to capture encrypted data in a session between a browser and server.



The vulnerability is hardly a fatal flaw in SSL (Secure Sockets Layer). Rather, it's a hole that a savvy Web site administrator should be able to spot before a hacker can do any damage.



"The good news here is that you still have to be pretty smart to break it," said Julie Ferguson, chief technology officer of ClearCommerce Corp., in Austin, Texas.



The researcher, Daniel Bleichenbacher, who works in the secure systems research department of Bell Labs, in Murray Hill, N.J., found a way for a hacker to derive the session key used in a transaction by feeding off the error messages created by a server.



First, the hacker must prepare roughly 1 million messages to send against the server to capture the information. Bleichenbacher said he created an algorithm that analyzes those messages and derives the session key--which is randomly generated for each transaction by a combination of public and private keys at the Web site and the consumer's browser. Still, a competent site administrator should notice that his Web site has suddenly received a barrage of bad messages.



"It should be very easy to see that an attack is taking place," Bleichenbacher said. The hacker would also have to capture a session at some point on the line, likely at an Internet service provider, not knowing whether there is information within it that is worth stealing.



Because a session key is randomly generated for each session, it's possible for a hacker to capture information only about that individual session, said officials at RSA Data Security Inc., which developed SSL in conjunction with Netscape Communications Corp.


The flaw, technically found in the standard called the Public Key Cryptography System #1, does not apply to encryption algorithms themselves but rather to the way packets are placed into encrypted envelopes. PKCS#1 is due to be upgraded next month, and the latest revision will account for the newly found vulnerability, said Scott Schnell, vice president of marketing at RSA, in Redwood City, Calif.


 The implications are perhaps most serious for home banking, because a hacker using this flaw could capture a user's banking information.



Although there are no known real-world attacks taking advantage of this SSL flaw, software vendors promise to have patches that mask the error messages. Netscape, in Mountain View, Calif., already has one available on its Web site for several applications, including Netscape Enterprise Server, Netscape Proxy Server and the company's messaging servers.



Microsoft Corp. also has created a fix that masks the error messages that a hacker would rely upon. Officials of the Redmond, Wash., company said they have worked with Netscape to ensure that their respective fixes do not create interoperability problems.



Both companies said they have already alerted major customers about the problem and provided them with fixes.




				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: listmaster@extensis.com
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 18:29:27 -0700 (PDT)
To: undisclosed-recipients:;
Subject: BeyondPress 4.0 from Extensis
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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with "ADD" in the subject line and their email address in the body.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 19:49:29 -0700 (PDT)
To: cryptography@c2.net
Subject: RSA Material on PKCS#1 Crack
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980626194913.00909b10@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


The attack: ftp://ftp.rsa.com/pub/pdfs/bulletn7.pdf
	4-page PDF file.  There's also a Postscript version available.
	The paper is by Bleichenbacher of Lucent and
	Burt Kaliski and Jessica Staddon of RSA Labs.
OEM Countermeasures: http://www.rsa.com/rsalabs/pkcs1/oem_counter.html
	(below)
Countermeasures for Users of Servers: http://www.rsa.com/rsalabs/pkcs1/countermeasures.html
	(below - it's pointers to vendor home pages, pleasantly including C2.
	Apparently they've done a good job coordinating it...)
Q&A : http://www.rsa.com/rsalabs/pkcs1/qa.html


======         RSA to Provide OEM Customers
               with Guidelines and Technology to
               Thwart Potential Web Server
               Security Attack

               OAEP Formatting Adds Important Security to
               Vulnerable Applications

               June 26, 1998 -- RSA Data Security, Inc. today
               announced guidelines to assist its OEM customers in
               both assessing their products' vulnerability to a newly
               discovered potential security attack, and to identify
               pre-emptive countermeasures to thwart such an attack. 
               The guidelines are designed to help developers
               understand the nature and mechanism of the threat,
               pose a series of technical questions to identify
               vulnerable constructs in the developer's software
               design, and provide a set of countermeasures from
               which to choose based on the developer's needs. 
               These guidelines are available online at
               http://www.rsa.com/rsalabs/.

               The potential threat affects server products that employ
               an interactive key establishment protocol in conjunction
               with the PKCS #1 standard for digital envelopes,
               including SSL-based servers.  SET (Secure Electronic
               Transaction) and other secure messaging protocols,
               such as S/MIME (Secure Multipurpose Internet Mail
               Extension), are not susceptible to or already implement
               mechanisms preventing this potential attack. 

               Recent research by cryptographer Daniel
               Bleichenbacher of the Bell Labs Secure Systems
               Research Department, the research and development
               arm of Lucent Technologies, indicate that the above
               combination is potentially vulnerable to a class of attack
               known as Adaptive Chosen Ciphertext Attacks.  The
               potential attack noted by Mr. Bleichenbacher relies on
               sending a target server on the order of a million carefully
               constructed messages and observing variations in the
               server's response.  As such, the attack is both
               detectable and can be prevented with countermeasures.

               For some developers, the most effective countermeasure
               is incorporation of the Optimal Asymmetric Encryption
               Padding (OAEP) technology, a method of formatting an
               encrypted message so that attackers cannot learn
               information about the contents through repeated
               probing.  OAEP is designed to thwart a variety of
               attacks, including the Adaptive Chosen Ciphertext
               Attack.

               For other developers, the most effective countermeasure
               will be preventing an assailant from gaining information
               from messages returned from their server.  RSA's
               guidelines provide design information for developers to
               use in implementing this form of countermeasure as well.

               RSA Laboratories, the research arm of RSA, plans to
               include OAEP in the next version of  PKCS #1, a widely
               used cryptography standard, that will be available as a
               draft for comment in July.  PKCS #1 is used in SSL and
               other popular security mechanisms to provide
               confidentiality for exchange of symmetric encryption
               keys (digital envelopes), as well as to construct digital
               signatures.  

               OAEP has already been integrated into RSA's newest
               release of BSAFE(tm) 4.0, the company's flagship
               cryptographic security development suite which began
               shipping this month.  RSA intends to make available
               OAEP updates conforming to the new PKCS #1
               specification for its BSAFE 3.0 and 4.0 products in July,
               and to incorporate OAEP in an upcoming version of
               JSAFE(tm), RSA's security engine for Java(tm).  RSA
               recommends that developers target these upcoming
               OAEP updates for inclusion in their products.  Check
               this site for more information on OAEP updates in the
               coming weeks.  

               RSA's Website will also host links to vendors' sites
               where countermeasures are made available as a service
               to both OEMs and end customers.  See RSA's related
               announcement on this subject.  Currently, the following
               vendor information Website links are available: 

                    C2Net Software, Inc. http://www.c2.net 
                    Consensus Development Corporation
                    http://www.consensus.com/ssl-rsa.html 
                    IBM Corporation http://www.ibm.com/security 
                    Lotus Development Corporation
                    http://www.lotus.com/security 
                    Microsoft Corporation
                    http://www.microsoft.com/security 
                    Netscape Communications Corporation
                    http://www.netscape.com 
                    Open Market, Inc.
                    http://www.openmarket.com/security/ 
                    RSA Data Security, Inc.
                    http://www.rsa.com/rsalabs 

                

               An RSA Labs technical paper discussing this
               vulnerability, as well as additional information, is
               available on RSA's Website,
               http://www.rsa.com/rsalabs.


============ SSL Countermeasures

These countermeasures enhance the security of popular Internet servers 
and  software products based on the Secure Sockets Layer (SSL) protocol.  
The countermeasures are available from respective vendors' Web sites, 
and include configuration guidelines, software updates where applicable 
and additional information.  
Currently available vendor information may be found at the following sites:
                Aventail Corporation
                                            http://www.aventail.com/  
                C2Net Software, Inc. 
                                            http://www.c2.net/
                Consensus Development Corporation
                                            http://www.consensus.com/
                Lotus Development Corporation
                                            http://www.lotus.com/security
                IBM Corporation
                                            http://www.ibm.com/security/
                Microsoft Corporation
                                            http://www.microsoft.com/security/
                Netscape Communications Corporation
                                            http://help.netscape.com/products/server/ssldisc overy/index.html
                Open Market, Inc. 
                                            http://www.openmarket.com/security/
                RSA Data Security, Inc.
                                            http://www.rsa.com/rsalabs/


				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 19:24:30 -0700 (PDT)
To: sjmz@hplb.hpl.hp.com
Subject: Wooden sculpture
Message-ID: <35945717.2653@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Friday 6/26/98 7:44 PM

John Young

I am reading

  http://www.jya.com/gak-fails.htm

Tonight I retrieved a wooden sculpture given to me by
numerical analyst 

  LINPACK  http://av.yahoo.com/bin/query?p=linpack&z=2&hc=0&hs=0

Richard Hanson.

That's him!  http://www.vni.com/products/imsl/hanson.html

Hanson gave me the sculpture in about 1978.

Hanson and I have been colleagues for about 25 years.

I will forward it to you.  With initials on the bottom.

And, of course, YOU must pass on the sculpture to the 
NEXT DESERVING.

Our buddies aren't happy about what happened.  http://www.wpiran.org/

Allahu akbar ... and keep up wind. 

Until we get SETTLMENT, of course.

Settlment must include support payments for Iranian mothers who lost
sons in the Iraq/Iran war, retirement benfits for them, health insurance
and a LETTER OF APOLOGY.  All paid for by NSA and the CIA.

We are ALL working for settlment.

bill

http://www.apcatalog.com/cgi-bin/AP?ISBN=0125475705&LOCATION=US&FORM=FORM2

http://www-hto.usc.edu/software/seqaln/doc/html/gfsr.3.html






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: lee7@msn.com
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 20:57:18 -0700 (PDT)
To: lee7@msn.com
Subject: WORRIED ABOUT HIS OR HER BACKGROUND?
Message-ID: <199806261236HAA45284@RECON.lonet.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC 
Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 21:55:15 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: BumBoy III - SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS!!!
Message-ID: <009C84D5.C921D340.16@west.cscwc.pima.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


BumBoy III - SPACE ALIENS HIDE M DRUGS!!!
__________________________________________

BumBoy Interview: C-J VAN DAMNNED (will it never end?)
{ AnInterViewerToBeNamedLater, sucking medication out of
  Baby's twat, only to find that it was a surprisingly
  pleasureable experience, made the mistake of allowing
  the Author to continue the interview on his own, while
  she and the TruthMongrel engaged in behavior that even
  the disgusting perverts on the BumBoy staff found to
  be revolting, since it was being done by two females.}

VOICES: "Tell them about US..."
VAN DAMNNED: It's not always voices...sometimes it's dreams...
sometimes the TV, or the Radio, or...anything, really...
Like the dream where I'm in the front row at a prizefight,
and two guys are beating the living shit out of each other,
until the final bell sounds and the winner is declared.
Then the two guys get out of the ring and come after me. The
one wearing the elephant-colored boxing trunks holds me down
while the one wearing the donkey-colored trunks starts shoving
a large box up my asshole, and pieces of paper fall out, giving
me papercuts, until one of the pieces of paper cuts my throat
as I puke it out, and the two guys who pretended to be fighting
each other are sucking up my blood out of the trough at the 
edge of the boxing ring, which turns out to be a pig-pen.
As the last of my lifeblood drains out of me, a person in
a dirty white smock appears, saying, "I'm from the government,
and I'm here to help you." As the person places the piece of
paper that cut my throat onto my juglar vein, to stop the 
bleeding, I notice that it is an election ballot--it is *my* 
election ballot.
As the ambulance rushes me back to my office, to return to
work, with the attendants telling me I should be back to normal
in about forty months, the two boxers walk past me, arm in
arm, with two sinister-looking agents walking behind them,
discussing their 'fighters' rematch, four years hence.
They have decided to raise the price of tickets from $100.00
to $500.00, since the government automatically deducts it
from everyone's paycheck, whether they attend the 'fight'
or not. As they discuss how much to raise the concession
prices for beer, soda, peanuts, popcorn and hot dogs, they
seem to suddenly notice me, and stop to offer their sincere
condolences for my 'accident', and say that they hope it
won't prevent me from attending the rematch.
As if on cue, the fight-promoter, who tells me he is from
the government, and is here to help me, picks up a pig-turd
containing a small piece of the hot-dog I was eating when I
was sodomized by the boxers, and hands it to me, saying, "This
is your share of the 'take'. ou know, in Communist countries,
the government keeps it all..."
I don't think I'll attend the rematch. I have a feeling that
I already know who wins...and who loses...

VOICES: "ou're getting excited again. Why don't you take your
medicine, and read a book, or something, to calm you down?"
VAN DAMNNED: ou sadistic pricks, you *know* that the only 
book I have with me is Collier and Horowitz's, 'The KENNEDS,
AN AMERICAN DRAMA,' and it's not in the least bit entertaining,
since I just finished a book about the Mafia, so I know how
everything in the Kennedy book, or *any book on politics, is 
going to turn out even before the authors even finish writing 
about it.
It's even more depressing than reading Hitler's "Mein Kamf" and
"New World Order" and then reading mainstream press reports about
government news conferences. Doesn't anybody do 'original material'
any more, or is everyone just plagarizing President Henny oungman,
who said, "Take my citizens...please!"
And take them...and take them...and take them...

VOICES: "We *told* you that everything since the Big Bang has
been plagarism..."
VAN DAMNNED: Oh, yeah? What about my song, "Booger-Eating Dog
(Don't Bite The Nose That Feeds ou)," or, "I Was Sitting On
My Horse, And She Jerked Me Off," and all of the other sick,
depraved songs I've written? Do you see a big lineup of people
claiming credit for the lyrics?

VOICES: "ou're getting excited again. See, you even placed your
quote marks in the correct place..."
VAN DAMNNED: See, there is another thing that proves that people
are capable of original, independent thought and actions...
Just because I'm the Author doesn't mean I have to use correct
spelling, punctuation, syntax (whatever the hell that is), or
write in a manner that indicates a well-researched and well-
reasoned train of thought. 

VOICES: "That doesn't make you unique, you fucking imbecile.
Just ask any one of a thousand publishing editors who have
to wade through the mountains of trash sent to them by self-
declared 'authors' who eventually end up cashing in Andy
Warhol's IOU for 'Fifteen Minutes Of Fame' by becoming a
guest on the Jerry Springer Show and telling the whole world
about how they got their dog pregnant by sucking themselves
off and blowing their sperm up her twat."
VAN DAMNNED: That wasn't *me*! That was someone who just
looked like me and deposited Jerry Springer's check in my
bank account to make me look bad.
But I don't mind, because it makes me unique!

VOICES: "Everything since the BigBang is Plagarism. ou're just
like all the other Sheeple."
VAN DAMNNED: No! ou're trying to trick me into thinking that
I'm not a free, independent human being. ou're trying to take
away the only things I have to hold on to that make me unique. 
ou want me to believe that I am not the only sick, depraved
pervert in the world who spreads FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and 
Disinformation) in an attempt to cloak my evil, wretched life
in an aura of grandoise importance and imagined righteousness.

VOICES: "ou haven't been following the Clinton-Lewinski affair
in the news, have you?"
VAN DAMNNED: Shut up! I'm not listening! I AM *NOT* LIKE 
PRESIDENT CLINTON!!!
I did *not* give strong encryption to those Chinese people who
let me have my way with Buddy in the Lincoln bedroom before they
ate him. I'm the one who tried to expose the fact that the *real*
Buddy had been replaced by a cross-cloning of Spuds Mackenzie and
Janet Reno. I told the CypherPunks to draw glasses on a picture
of Buddy and see if it looked like Reno.
That was *me*, *really*! I just forged Mark Hedges name to that
post to make him look like an asshole! Honest!

VOICES: "ou're just like all of the other sorry, pathetic losers
who can't get a *real* publishing contract with a *real* publisher
who is helping to destroy the Rain Forests by printing millions of
hardcover and paperback books decrying the destruction and loss 
of the Rain Forests.
"Instead, you continue to contribute to the destruction of the
Digital Environment by sending mountains of your rotting, greasy
Digital SPAM to the CypherPunks Disturbed Male List, where your
sins are compounded in MeatSpace as a result of the millions of
plastic  keys that need to be created every day in order
for decent, moral, law-abiding NetiZens to protect themselves and
their children from your mindless drivel.
"As punishment, WE are going to tell you the *real* name of the
right-hand square bracket..."
VAN DAMNNED: Noooo!!! I'M NOT LISTENING!!!
AAARRRRRGGHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

{The BumBoy Interview with C-J VAN DAMNNED came to a sudden end,
 as heavily armed, black-clad ninja agents of ACypherNipsNode-
 ToBeNamedLater, came bursting through the door, screaming,
 "Torah! Torah! Torah! Chop! Chop! ", surrounding the
 Author and allowing AnInterviewerToBeNamedLater to grab Baby
 and the tape recorder, making her escape while clutching her skirt
 close to her body, as the Author was trying to peek up it even
 as he lie on the floor taking a tremendous beating.
 "ou've got to admire his persistence." she told BumBoy editors
 while dropping off the interview tapes.
 Sadly, we must report that Baby, obviously a codependent enabler
 of the Author's sickness, failed to make it to California, where
 BumBoy was prepared to foot the bill for her to see a Doggie
 Therapist, instead choosing to return to the Author, once again
 dropping the BadBillyG mask at HisOrHer feet and backing toward
 him with her tail raised in eager anticipation.
 Redoubtable sources inform us that the black-clad ninja agents
 of ACypherNipsNodeToBeNamedLater sat back, drinking the Author's
 Scotch and enjoying the spectacle, as well as tucking money in
 the Author's panties when HeOrShe bound Baby's feet for the
 second performance.
 Official Police Reports indicate that, when officers arrived in
 response to noise complaints from the neighbors, that the ninjas
 were fighting violently over a Din-Din Tin roasting pan and a
 bottle of barbeque sauce, seemingly surprised that the Author 
 and Baby TruthMongrel had vanished.
 The leader of the black-clad ninja agents was quoted as saying,
 "Shit! We come to Ito his dog, and now we have to go home and
 Ito mole of his SPAM, instead." Turning to his companions, he
 said, "We go now...chop-chop!"
 Looking embarassed, the leader explained to police, "We not 
 even know what that mean, until oul fliend, Timmy-San, point
 us to the alchives, whele we find out it mean we have big
 cocks, rike Amelican bikels. Then we aporogized fol accusing
 Timmy-San of making fun of us. He good guy..."
 The editors at BumBoy, upon receiving Declan McCullagh's 
 expense receipts for the clothing he purchased to go undercover
 as AnInterviewerToBeNamedLater, could not help but notice that
 an article of clothing conspicuously missing from the receipts
 was...panties.}





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 13:05:28 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Jim Bell Update
Message-ID: <199806272005.QAA08989@camel8.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


According to the June 26 court docket:

1. Jim was arrested June 22;

2. A hearing was held on June 23, USDC Western WA, 
Tacoma;

3. A new defense attorney present, Peter Voelker;

4. Jim advised of rights and of allegations in violation petition 
(not specified); 

5. Gov moves for detention; 

6. Gov and defense attorneys make unspecified proffers; 

7. Jim is ordered detained; 

8. Probation revocation hearing set for July 10;

9. Judge appoints an (unamed) Federal Public Defender.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 15:34:16 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: CIA Hires Lo/Hi-Tech Spies
Message-ID: <199806272234.SAA30802@camel7.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


NYT, June 27, 1998:

Getting Back to Basics, C.I.A. Is Hiring More Spies 

Taking steps to reduce dependence on high-tech spying. 

By James Risen

Washington, June 26--The Central Intelligence Agency 
is beginning the largest recruitment drive for new spies 
in its history, in an ambitious effort to rebuild its 
espionage service, which has been severely damaged by 
spy scandals, budget cutbacks and high turnover since 
the end of the cold war, officials said.
 
With Congress already providing increased financing, 
the Directorate of Operations, the C.I.A.'s clandestine 
espionage arm, will hire record numbers of case officers
--spies-- beginning this year as part of a new strategic 
plan to repair the decaying espionage capabilities of 
the United States by 2005, officials said. 

In addition to expanded hiring, the agency also plans to 
reopen several overseas stations that were closed in the 
early 1990's after the demise of the Soviet Union led 
Congress and the White House to reduce the C.I.A.'s 
budget sharply. 

The recruitment plan is a sign that the C.I.A. recognizes 
that it has become far too dependent on so-called technical 
intelligence, or eavesdropping devices and spy satellites. 
Now, the agency wants to get back to espionage basics, by 
increasing its ability to place a spy behind enemy lines 
or inside the offices of a rival government. 

The spread of new technologies like encryption and computer 
networks has eroded the value of spy satellites and listening 
devices and has led the C.I.A. to see the need for an 
expanded cadre of spies. Without having an agent in place, 
the C.I.A. has found it much harder to gain access to secrets 
from rival governments, terrorists and international 
organized crime groups.  ...

The C.I.A. is recruiting case officers, and people to support 
them with technical skills that spies have rarely been asked 
to learn in the past. 

"As we tried to figure out our requirements for the future, 
we realized we needed to have greater technical support for 
agent operations," said one American official. 

At the top of the list of requirements is computer expertise. 
The proliferation of global computer data networks, for example, 
has made it more difficult for the agency to slip into a 
country using false identifications. Only computer experts 
can defeat those local computer systems, and even developing 
countries routinely make sophisticated computer checks on 
passports and visas. ...

-----

Full story: http://jya.com/cia-hires.htm





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Jorge C. Palma"
Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 13:16:23 -0700 (PDT)
To: jyu-ohjelmointi-cypherpunks@uunet.uu.net
Subject: What does it mean and How much does it cost a healthy diet? A natural foods one !
Message-ID: <6n3jrl$27h$14645@talia.mad.ibernet.es>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Cantabrian Altamira Shopping
http:/www.cantabrian.com/altamira/altamira.htm

Hello:

How much does it cost a healthy diet?. Cantabrian Altamira Shopping shows in its web pages natural
and ecological foods without additives and preservants from Spain.  
You will find there white tuna, anchovies, honeys, partridges, wines and assocites.

We apologize if this message has been missadressed,

Thanks, Cantabrian Virtual Publishers                                                         http://www.cantabrian.com  




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 18:43:00 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: AU Cryptozilla Attack
Message-ID: <199806280142.VAA19935@camel7.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Thanks to Anonymous we offer the article which
describes the AU government attack on Eric Young's 
and Tim Hudson's full-strength Cryptozilla for Netscape:

   http://jya.com/oz-crypto.htm

It's also a good overview of crypto policy battles down 
under -- the pols, the crats, the laws, the regs, the 
obfuscations, the work arounds of export controls
and runarounds with chicken heads off -- like like 
all around hereabouts.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 20:06:47 -0700 (PDT)
To: John Young 
Subject: Re: CIA Hires Lo/Hi-Tech Spies
In-Reply-To: <199806272234.SAA30802@camel7.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <199806280312.WAA005.26@geiger.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In <199806272234.SAA30802@camel7.mindspring.com>, on 06/27/98 
   at 06:29 PM, John Young  said:

>Washington, June 26--The Central Intelligence Agency 
>is beginning the largest recruitment drive for new spies 
>in its history, in an ambitious effort to rebuild its 
>espionage service, which has been severely damaged by 
>spy scandals, budget cutbacks and high turnover since 
>the end of the cold war, officials said.

Sounds like a good time to get some moles in place. :)

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgp.html
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: Windows: Just another pane in the glass.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3a-sha1
Charset: cp850
Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000

iQCVAwUBNZW0j49Co1n+aLhhAQFhOAQAn8B/VxAiIofDpynV9GMrL4QCnWIsbng6
dEG51nVIe9L+UWyyuYc9NFB4NjIxhXp4dibJG1H9PlkXg++vvMYR6JUyHa6h1/E2
dMY7injK0KZvYUd9Rvhq/JM1p56cRwnXa0UVtlP2b4cJsB+1v6ZxWlyvtCoEkz/n
q5nUM8lzlgI=
=vQay
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jan 
Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 13:31:21 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Program: 'Speak Feely' for "secure comminucations"...
Message-ID: <3595576A.A100CB77@kki.net.pl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Greetings,

I've come across this program on the net which claims to give "secure
communications"... could any of you folks comment of this program? 

	Speak Freely 6.1 For Windows 95/NT (295K) 
	Author: John Walker 
	Homepage: http://www.fourmilab.ch/speakfree/windows/
	Description: Real time one to one audio chat, half or full duplex,
bitmap 	transfer. Encryption for secure communications. Might be slow
with modem 	connections. 

The text below is part of the text on the homepage...

========================
Speak Freely for Windows

                         Release 6.1

Speak Freely is a Windows application that allows you to talk
(actually send voice, not typed characters) over a network. If your
network connection isn't fast enough to support real-time voice data,
four forms of compression may allow you, assuming your computer is
fast enough, to converse nonetheless. To enable secure communications,
encryption with DES, IDEA, and/or a key file is available. If PGP is
installed on the user's machine, it can be invoked automatically to
exchange IDEA session keys for a given conversation. Speak Freely for
Windows is compatible with Speak Freely for Unix, and users of the two
programs can intercommunicate. Users can find one another by
communicating with a "Look Who's Listening" phone book server. You can
designate a bitmap file to be sent to users who connect so they can
see who they're talking to. Speak Freely supports Internet RTP
protocol, allowing it to communicate with other Internet voice
programs which use that protocol; in addition, Speak Freely can also
communicate with programs which support the VAT (Visual Audio Tool)
protocol.

...

[remainder snipped]

Jan out.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 21:05:16 -0700 (PDT)
To: John Young 
Subject: Re: Jim Bell Update
In-Reply-To: <199806272005.QAA08989@camel8.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <199806280410.XAA006.76@geiger.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In <199806272005.QAA08989@camel8.mindspring.com>, on 06/27/98 
   at 04:01 PM, John Young  said:

>According to the June 26 court docket:

>1. Jim was arrested June 22;

>2. A hearing was held on June 23, USDC Western WA, 
>Tacoma;

>3. A new defense attorney present, Peter Voelker;

>4. Jim advised of rights and of allegations in violation petition  (not
>specified); 

>5. Gov moves for detention; 

>6. Gov and defense attorneys make unspecified proffers; 

>7. Jim is ordered detained; 

>8. Probation revocation hearing set for July 10;

>9. Judge appoints an (unamed) Federal Public Defender.


If I were Jim the next time I got out they would never find me again. It
seems quite obvious that they are going to hound him to the day he dies.

Jim has a chem degree doesn't he? I know a few countries where such
talents are in demand :)

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgp.html
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: One man's Windows are another man's walls.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3a-sha1
Charset: cp850
Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000

iQCVAwUBNZXCSI9Co1n+aLhhAQGG1AP/c8CDhDVDneygrcvglEofoiq48YvWvE4u
cgAc/ox7yOkAsInxmqeiFZGUgiyIYeIJXLvFY43D+T4v2xU4t50L6tFf22nVjxmP
kUqv5QPn0xB7ssO7LMUWKOqoP7doqNks275LB92LFANX44bp1RRhTr7ziiw22L6A
dD/FhnB1x1Q=
=cI+Z
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: workathome@grid.sk
Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 14:30:37 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: Use Your Computer To Make Money From Home
Message-ID: <199806272143.XAA10412@durman.krnap.cz>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Use Your Computer To Make Money From Home

Great Home-Based Business Opportunity.
Secret Marketing Software Turns YOUR 
PC Into A MONEY MACHINE!

Easy And Simple.  No Risk!

Free Marketing Software Explains How!

Act Now!  To Turn YOUR Computer Into A Money Machine,
Send Your Name, Address, and Phone Number within 48 hrs. to:

mailto:cashsoftware6@juno.com 


Click here for removal -> mailto:optout3@juno.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ci0u@worldnet.att.net
Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 19:32:29 -0700 (PDT)
To: hgbc31kvt15@generalnet.com
Subject: Earn $100 every time OUR phone rings...
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



ALL YOU DO IS ADVERTISE THIS 800 NUMBER! THAT'S ALL!! 

$100 goes to you for EVERY sale that the company closes!

Does the idea of making at least $1,000 per week beginning your 2nd week of 
doing business excite you? 

How about never having to sell a thing to your customer and never having 
to talk to ANYONE to make money? I don't know how this could get any easier.

EVERY aspect of selling or talking to someone is DONE COMPLETELY by the company!  

The number one home based business for the 2nd year in a row, Fortune 5000 
is a member of the Better Business Bureau and the U.S. Chamber of Commerce.

WHAT THIS BUSINESS WILL DO FOR YOU:

* Handles all your calls, closes your sales, and 
  sends you WEEKLY commission checks! 

* It pays you a $100 commission (that's over 50% of the total sale)
  for EVERY sale. CHECKS put $$$ in your pocket in less than your first 
  week or two... Quick commission earnings build and maintain motivation. 
  ALL YOU DO IS ADVERTISE the toll-free number and your ID number. 

* You can get STARTED TODAY. Just advertise the business toll-free 
  number with your ID # and let this business CLOSE YOUR SALES every day...
  They do all the work and YOU GET PAID FOR IT! 

* You may advertise any way you choose: Bulk E-Mail, Flyers, Classifieds, 
  Postcards, etc. Suppose you use bulk E-Mail, as I am: 100,000 E-Mails
  with a 1/10th of a percent (0.1%) sales rate at $100 per sale nets 
  $10,000... not too bad.

There is nothing else out there that will provide you with an immediate income 
beginning THIS WEEK with minimal effort.

Before you call, I want you to think about the quality of the live 
operators handling your call. I am convinced you will not find 
a better team of closers for your own personal sales.  You will 
clearly understand what I am talking about once you call.  

PLEASE DON'T LET THIS PASS YOU BY. MAKE THE CALL!!

1-800-811-2141

You will be asked for ID #50030 when you call.

(Live operators are available from 8 AM-10 PM CST Monday through Saturday and 
will be able to answer any questions you may have.)

Call one of the 24hr TESTIMONIAL lines at 888-703-5389, 888-446-6949, 888-446-6951
or 888-731-3457 (all toll free). 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: attila 
Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 21:34:04 -0700 (PDT)
To: "William H. Geiger III" 
Subject: Re: Jim Bell Update
In-Reply-To: <199806280410.XAA006.76@geiger.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Sat, 27 Jun 1998, William H. Geiger III wrote:

>If I were Jim the next time I got out they would never find me again. It
>seems quite obvious that they are going to hound him to the day he dies.
>
>Jim has a chem degree doesn't he? I know a few countries where such
>talents are in demand :)
>
	yeah, but the weather in Baghdad is not only hot, but 
  	occasionally rains clusters.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: creditmedic@earthlink.net
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 06:30:00 -0700 (PDT)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: Credit Medic
Message-ID: <199806281325.GAA12072@scotland.it.earthlink.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Dear Friend,

DO YOU SUFFER FROM BAD CREDIT?  DO YOU WISH YOU 
COULD START OVER WITH A CLEAN SLATE?  Maybe you just 
want a better way to protect your privacy.  

Many of us never realized the long-term effect that bad credit has on 
our lives.  In the computer age, many of these negative issues seem 
inescapable, and for good reason.  Fortunately, Credit Medic will 
rescue you from your past negative credit and open the way to a new 
life in the credit world.  By creating an entirely new credit file, you can 
obtain the credit you deserve.  This powerful program will explain how 
you can create a new credit bureau file that will give you the opportunity 
for new credit.  

People lose their credit privileges for any number of reasons.  In our 
society, it's very difficult to live without good credit.  Regardless of 
your past credit history, this program will show you how to regain good 
credit.  But you will get more than that.  With good credit comes high 
self-esteem and self-worth.  You will be better able to take care of 
yourself or your family and enjoy the things you deserve.

Credit Medic will walk you through this process step by step.  It will 
take some energy and focus on your part but the rewards will be well 
worth the effort.  By creating a new credit file, the Government allows 
you a second chance at getting the credit you deserve.  Thousands of 
people who have used this program have achieved success in releasing 
themselves from the exasperating stranglehold of bad credit and moved 
on to having outstanding credit.

Understand that there is absolutely no reason for you to believe that it is 
impossible for you to release yourself from your past negative credit and 
move on to excellent credit!  

The process is very simple, but it is important to be dedicated and to 
follow through with all details.  You must also be patient, some steps 
take longer than others.  Don't be fooled into thinking that this is a 
miracle quick fix.  This method will require some work on your part.

What's important to realize is how the Government and the 
CRAs (Credit Reporting Agencies) identify you and list all of your past 
and present credit information.  Credit Medic will show you how to 
apply for new credit identification.  This creates a whole new credit 
identity, that runs parallel (but never crosses) your existing credit.  

This program doesn't require that you repair your old credit file, although 
it's a good idea for many obvious reasons.  This is your decision to make.  
Credit Medic isn't loaded with fluff or filler material.  Everything in this kit 
is important!  You will find out about rights that you probably didn't know 
you had.  Remember, you deserve good credit.  Follow the program carefully, 
and you will be successful!  

Credit Medic will give you a second chance for credit.  It will also be your 
last chance.  You must understand that you only get ONE (1) second 
chance.  If your credit is damaged again, Credit Medic cannot help you.  

Credit Medic is a PROVEN method that REALLY WORKS if you follow 
the steps described.  Credit Medic DOES NOT do the work for you, but 
it DOES give you COMPLETE detailed instructions for building NEW 
credit.  

DON'T PROCRASTINATE!  YOU DESERVE GOOD CREDIT!  ORDER 
by June 10th and receive 50% off the regular price of $39.95.  NOW 
ONLY $19.95 if your order is postmarked by July 10, 1998!  













Please print and fill out the following order form:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
ATTN: Please type or print legibly to ensure proper delivery.

Name______________________________________________________

E-mail Address (Required for E-Mail Delivery--U.S. Postal Delivery $5.95 extra)

__________________________________________________________

Address

__________________________________________________________

__________________________________________________________

__________________________________________________________

Phone #______________________

PLEASE CHECK ONE:

_____ E-Mail Delivery  _____ U.S. Mail

$_19.95_  CREDIT MEDIC SECRETS (If postmarked by 7/10/98)      
$_______  Sales Tax (CA residents add 8.25%)
$_FREE_  E-Mail Delivery (you must include an e-mail address which accepts large attachments)
$__5.95_  Postal Delivery (Only add this amount if you want Credit Medic delivered by U.S. Mail)
$_______  Order Total                          

PAYMENT BY (US FUNDS only!):

 ___ Personal/Business Check ___ Money Order ___ Cashier's Check

PREFERRED FORMAT (Please check one or more of the following):

___ ASCII ___ Microsoft Word ___ Zipped

*If none of these three formats are acceptable, please order for delivery 
 by U.S. Mail.  You must include the additional $5.95 shipping & handling fee.  
The complete kit will be mailed in printed form.  

**If you're ordering from outside the USA, only a Money Order in US 
 Dollars will be accepted.  No postal delivery is available outside the 
 USA, so you must include your E-Mail address accurately and legibly.  
 If you do not currently have an E-Mail address, please get permission 
 to use a friend's.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please make payable to ->  BWZ Publications 
and send to:

Credit Medic
21755 Ventura Blvd.
Suite 455
Woodland Hills, CA 91367
USA





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: q4ix@worldnet.att.net
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 01:25:58 -0700 (PDT)
To: dvbc52gtp47@generalnet.com
Subject: Earn $100 every time OUR phone rings...
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



ALL YOU DO IS ADVERTISE THIS 800 NUMBER! THAT'S ALL!! 

$100 goes to you for EVERY sale that the company closes!

Does the idea of making at least $1,000 per week beginning your 2nd week of 
doing business excite you? 

How about never having to sell a thing to your customer and never having 
to talk to ANYONE to make money? I don't know how this could get any easier.

EVERY aspect of selling or talking to someone is DONE COMPLETELY by the company!  

The number one home based business for the 2nd year in a row, Fortune 5000 
is a member of the Better Business Bureau and the U.S. Chamber of Commerce.

WHAT THIS BUSINESS WILL DO FOR YOU:

* Handles all your calls, closes your sales, and 
  sends you WEEKLY commission checks! 

* It pays you a $100 commission (that's over 50% of the total sale)
  for EVERY sale. CHECKS put $$$ in your pocket in less than your first 
  week or two... Quick commission earnings build and maintain motivation. 
  ALL YOU DO IS ADVERTISE the toll-free number and your ID number. 

* You can get STARTED TODAY. Just advertise the business toll-free 
  number with your ID # and let this business CLOSE YOUR SALES every day...
  They do all the work and YOU GET PAID FOR IT! 

* You may advertise any way you choose: Bulk E-Mail, Flyers, Classifieds, 
  Postcards, etc. Suppose you use bulk E-Mail, as I am: 100,000 E-Mails
  with a 1/10th of a percent (0.1%) sales rate at $100 per sale nets 
  $10,000... not too bad.

There is nothing else out there that will provide you with an immediate income 
beginning THIS WEEK with minimal effort.

Before you call, I want you to think about the quality of the live 
operators handling your call. I am convinced you will not find 
a better team of closers for your own personal sales.  You will 
clearly understand what I am talking about once you call.  

PLEASE DON'T LET THIS PASS YOU BY. MAKE THE CALL!!

1-800-811-2141

You will be asked for ID #50030 when you call.

(Live operators are available from 8 AM-10 PM CST Monday through Saturday and 
will be able to answer any questions you may have.)

Call one of the 24hr TESTIMONIAL lines at 888-703-5389, 888-446-6949, 888-446-6951
or 888-731-3457 (all toll free). 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: hihe57@texas.net (Cherry Pit)
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 10:52:38 -0700 (PDT)
To: hihe57@texas.net
Subject: New Web Site
Message-ID: <19980628206FAA56484@post.pge.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Cherry Pit



Check Out My Free Adult Site with Lots of Pictures




http://209.215.147.9/




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Global Web Builders 
Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 18:25:41 -0700 (PDT)
To: (Recipient list suppressed)
Subject: New on-line moderated forum for Pauline Hanson's One Nation
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980628010014.00a78dbc@mail.pronet.net.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


G'day One Nation supporter in NSW

Pauline Hanson's One Nation now has its own moderated discussion group on-line.

You may participate by requesting a unique username and password from GWB by
reply email.

The URL for the discussion board is:

http://plato.cc.adfa.oz.au/auspolitics/

Follow the link to Pauline Hanson's One Nation discussion group in the frame
on the right.

The purpose of the discussion group is to discuss One Nation policy, issues
and brain storm.

Please not IT IS a moderated discussion group and any offensive posts will
result in the poster being taken off the forum.

GWB



Scott Balson






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 18:28:58 -0700 (PDT)
To: jy@jya.com
Subject: Just clicked on http://www.jya.com/crypto.htm
Message-ID: <3596ED18.890@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Sunday 6/28/98 7:12 PM

John Young

Just looked at http://www.jya.com/crypto.htm

usa062698.htm      Payne v. NSA: US on Classified NSA Declaration   
June 27, 1998

usa062298.htm      Payne v. NSA: US Motion on FOIA for NSA Algos    
June 27, 1998

See you got the Saturday fax.

Dinner is ready, said Patty.

Glad you enjoyed the hat I sent you  ...

FLASH

Patty just called me to dinner.  Patty yelled J Orlin Grabbe!

J ORLIN GRABBE appeared on 60 Minutes. http://www.aci.net/kalliste/

Leslie Stall was critital.

Watched remainder of 60 minutes.

For the record, Patty is my SAME wife since 1962, 

  Implementing Basics : How Basics Work
  by William H. and Patricia Payne

 
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/subst/home/home.html/002-8309979-0236834

Patty and I met John Gilmore http://www.cygnus.com/~gnu/
and his girl friend Cindy for dinner in about October.

It took about 15 minutes for Patty and I to discover if Gilmore and his
girl friend were of THE SAME SPECIES.

I am a TOTAL CONSERVATIVE.  

I FINALLY saw J Orlin Grabbe on 60 Minutes tonight.

http://www.aci.net/kalliste/speccoll.htm
http://www.aci.net/kalliste/nukearse.htm
http://www.aci.net/kalliste/sandcryp.htm

Looks like he may be from a different spicies too.  

But from our minds, Gilmore, Grabbe, and LOTS OF YOU
think the same thoughts.  

And likely John Young too. Good ones.  No evil.

I need to collect my thoughts after seeing 60 minutes tonight.

Best 
bill






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ivestheis@aol.com
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 17:27:54 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: tell me about digi cash if you know about it
Message-ID: <121815ca.3596df68@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Thanks here is my phone 502 961 0332
Name Ives Aidan Sandol




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 21:49:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Internet Success Toolbox
Message-ID: <989.283923.42380 amainfo@amazonmall.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 01:58:47 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: Cheapest Long Distance...As Low As 4.9cpm!!
Message-ID: <989.283923.711042 operator@theshopcenter.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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and you will automatically receive some more information.

If you would like to be removed from any further mailings, then 
please 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Matt Harlow" 
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 23:31:33 -0700 (PDT)
To: "Matt Harlow at home (E-mail)" 
Subject: Marketing, Advertising & PR Forum
Message-ID: <001401bda318$509c3900$58062bd1@mattharlo.qtm.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I recently started a mailing list for the marketing, advertising and PR
industry.  We've already got over 100 subscribers from all over the globe.
The conversation is really flowing now and we're ready to expand.  So far
we've have touched on office politics, how to's, compensation and critiques
of national campaigns, job openings and a whole lot more.  We'd love to have
you on board.

All you need to do to sign up is send an email to the address:
requests@mail.villing.net with the subject of:
	SUBSCRIBE DIGEST MATT to receive the a daily digest or
	SUBSCRIBE MATT to receive individual emails

Also, please do me a favor and copy me at M_harlow@villingandcompany.com if
you sign up.  That way I know to add your name to the roster.

Hope to see you at the forum!  We're getting some great exchanges and I'd
love to get you in on them.

Feel free to pass this message on to anyone you feel might be interested in
the group.

Sincerely,
Matt Harlow

P.S. If you're already signed up or if I've recruited you before, Sorry!
It's tough to recruit for a project like this and sometimes I get a name
twice in my efforts not to miss anyone.

Matt Harlow
Account Executive
Villing and Company
3900 Edison Lakes Parkway, Suite 100
Mishawaka, Indiana 46545
Work: Email: m_harlow@villingandcompany.com, Phone: 219-277-0215, Fax:
219-277-5513
Home: Email: mattharlo@qtm.net, Phone: 616-683-2599, Fax: 616-684-4765







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Jean-Francois Avon" 
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 06:52:40 -0700 (PDT)
To: "Cypherpunks" 
Subject: Re: saving the world from a cancerous monopoly
Message-ID: <199806291404.KAA16743@cti06.citenet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Mon, 29 Jun 1998 11:31:43 +0000 (GMT), attila wrote:


>	I am not in favour of the government meddling in the design
>	or integration of M$ products...  but:
>
>	the Sherman Act, passed in 1890 is designed to level the 
>	playing field, not regulate/administrate. the real issue 
>	of the act is that it acts _in the interest of society_ 
>	to curtail monopolistic and anti-competitive actions and
>	excesses  --M$ certainly qualifies for the remedies far
>	more than John D. Rockefeller's Standard Oil did in 1908.

That is B$, i.e. pork barelled gold plated bullshit!  Standard Oil story was simply some 
businessmen whoring to politicians whoring to businessmen.  But what a price did we pay for 
that!

The Sherman Act is simply another appropriation of market by physical force, made morally 
acceptable by legislating it.  

When a country legalize the use of force for profits, their citizens will suffer the 
consequences sooner or later.

Ciao

jfa



Jean-Francois Avon, Montreal QC Canada
"One of theses centuries, the brutes, private or public, who believe
that they can rule their betters by force, will learn the lesson of
what happens when brute force encounters mind and force."
                                              - Ragnar Danneskjold
PGP key at:    http://bs.mit.edu:8001/pks-toplev.html
ID# C58ADD0D : 529645E8205A8A5E F87CC86FAEFEF891 






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill.stewart@pobox.com
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 11:20:37 -0700 (PDT)
To: attila 
Subject: Re: saving the world from a cancerous monopoly
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980629095745.009bbae0@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 11:31 AM 6/29/98 +0000, attila wrote:
>	there is only one _sane_ course of action against M$:
>	divestiture  --before Gates becomes the Hydra.  [...]
>	the real issue is not the 90% of the OS market, it is the
>	95% (expected to grow to 98% before 2000) of the office s/w.
>	the office software, available _only_ on M$ platforms 
>	creates a self-perpetuating juggernaut: no other OS can
>	even begin to make market penetraton without the key
>	product (office s/w) --and people are not willing to
>	learn a new application-- that's just human nature.

Attlia - you'd probably enjoy reading
	"Barbarians Led By Bill Gates",
a recent book by some MS ex-insiders on how MS became what it is.
Windows 3.0, for instance, wasn't supposed to muscle out OS/2,
but the developers of Word/Excel/Powerpoint (which they originally
wrote for the Macintosh) got better development/porting support 
from the small group of developers on the low-status backwater
leftover Windoze team than from the high-profile IBM OS/2 partnership,
and Win3.0 was ready to ship when they were, unlike the upcoming
insanely great next version of OS/2.  When it sold a million copies
in a few months, Gates had to deal with it, and suddenly Windows
became a strategic product again, and gradually OS/2 became the leftover.

>	is using his cash cow, swollen by gouging the consumer, to

Gates has only gouged consumers by selling us crap which we buy,
either because we need compatibility with other users of their products,
or because we work for big companies who have centralized decision-
making droids who buy it.  

Better than Gates tells my corporate droids what to buy than Janet Reno,
Louis Freeh, or FCCmeister Kennard.  Not only do they have even less taste,
but they'd solve the problem by taking a long time to do the spec,
which wouldn't have enough details to interoperate with anything except the
National Information Infrastructure Data Entry Escrow Protocol.

Personally, I disliked WordPerfect immensely
(though I last used it back when it and MSWord were character-based),
and Word has acquired enough features to be about as flaky and 
unpredictable as WP was back then.  Excel is friendly, and I don't use s
preadsheets enough to prefer something else.  Powerpoint reeks,
and the integration between Word and Powerpoint reeks badly.

>	acquire _significant_ interests in industries which use
>	computers: cable networks, cellular networks, satellite 
>	networks, etc. and related industries dependent on 
>	communications: news (MSNBC), television, productions, 

Good for him - would you rather he spent the money acquiring 
other parts of the software industry or Seattle real estate?
He also spent a pile of money trying to outflank the Internet with MSN,
and lost badly.  Are you still running Microsoft BoB?


				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Harvey Rook (Exchange)" 
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 10:39:33 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks 
Subject: RE: saving the world from a cancerous monopoly
Message-ID: <2FBF98FC7852CF11912A00000000000108A78AC5@DINO>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


From: attila [mailto:attila@hun.org]
> 	1.  M$' base operating system must be fully defined; eg-
> 	    the API interface must be made available to all. if
> 	    the API is not a moving target, emulators can be 
> 	    written enabling native WinTel s/w to run correctly
> 	    on other platforms (unix variants, OS/2, beos, apple,
> 	    etc). the increasing CPU "horsepower" makes this 
> 	    approach at least feasible.
> 	    
How do you plan on accomplishing this? The courts have said that they will
not design computers. Since freezing an API is tantamount to computer
design, this isn't going to happen any time soon.

More generlly, API's only freeze when the system is dead. Windows has, for
better or for worse, many years of life left in it. This means one way or
the other, MS will extend Windows as it needs. For them, freezing Windows
would be killing one of their cash cows.

> 	2.  M$ must be required to port it's major products to
> 	    other operating systems; it is worth noting that 
> 	    freeBSD, for instance, will run native binaries from
> 	    Linux and SCO variants which simplifies on set.

This is also very difficult to implement. How do you choose what OS/s to
port to? If MS can't expect to earn a profit from the port, then MS is
dumping software, which is not legal. Why choose x86 UNIX's (less than 10
million users) Why not MVS (more than 20 million users)?

Attila, I think you're jealous, and confused by MS's success. You don't
understand why someone would choose Windows (NT or 98) when OS's are
available that have a better core. And you desperatly want to change that.

Some terrible truths...

#1 Only MS, and Apple know how to make and OS that the mass market wants.
Apple unfortunatly doesn't know how to make hardware that the mass market
wants. 

#2 If people made decisions rationally, advertisements would consist of
nothing but readings from Consumer Reports.

#3 The typical computer user is getting less, not more intelligent. If an
x86 unix is to gain mass market popularity, it must become vastly more
usable. Most people don't know and don't care about the internals of the OS.
They don't want to think about it. They just want their documents and games
to be there when they click on them, and they want to surf the internet. Not
that Windows is perfect for usability, but it's a hell of a lot better than
UNIX.

But enough of this... this is cypherpunks, not alt.bash.microsoft. 

Take a peek at my email address if you want to see my bias.

ob cypher... I've got a validated C++ implementation of RC-6 email me if
you'd like a copy of the source.

Harv.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSqncrs@aol.com
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 08:17:54 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Premail (and Replay)
Message-ID: <51a3bf4e.3597affc@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


In a message dated 6/29/98 6:31:46 AM Central Daylight Time, nobody@REPLAY.COM
writes:

<< Anonymous #49812 wrote:
 > On 28 Jun 1998, Secret Squirrel wrote:
 >
 > > Also, remailer@replay.com appears to have been deleted. The 'remailer'
 > > user is unknown.
 > 
 > That's correct. I don't know what happened.
 
 Oh, really? >>

ROFLOL!

Stan




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: attila 
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 04:31:51 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks 
Subject: saving the world from a cancerous monopoly
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


	there is only one _sane_ course of action against M$:
	divestiture  --before Gates becomes the Hydra.

	to make it short: at 90% of the OS market, and 95% of the 
	current	office software (w/p, spreadsheet, database, etc) 
	market worldwide, M$ _is_ in a position of total market 
	dominance.

	the real issue is not the 90% of the OS market, it is the
	95% (expected to grow to 98% before 2000) of the office s/w.
	the office software, available _only_ on M$ platforms 
	creates a self-perpetuating juggernaut: no other OS can
	even begin to make market penetraton without the key
	product (office s/w) --and people are not willing to
	learn a new application-- that's just human nature.

	it will take two technical factors to make M$ subject to 
	market pressures and responsive to further competitive
	innovation (and this involves extensive ongoing regulation
	and oversight which I consider anathema):

	1.  M$' base operating system must be fully defined; eg-
	    the API interface must be made available to all. if
	    the API is not a moving target, emulators can be 
	    written enabling native WinTel s/w to run correctly
	    on other platforms (unix variants, OS/2, beos, apple,
	    etc). the increasing CPU "horsepower" makes this 
	    approach at least feasible.
	    
	2.  M$ must be required to port it's major products to
	    other operating systems; it is worth noting that 
	    freeBSD, for instance, will run native binaries from
	    Linux and SCO variants which simplifies on set.

	    as a corollary, M$ must be required to support some 
	    of the non-Intel hardware ports such as freeBSD or 
	    Linux on Alpha (almost 5 years ago, Alpha was at the 
	    performance level of the current Intel 400 Mhz). M$
	    does support Word and Explorer on Apple, but major
	    features were not ported in both instances --this is
	    not acceptable.

	I am not in favour of the government meddling in the design
	or integration of M$ products...  but:

	the Sherman Act, passed in 1890 is designed to level the 
	playing field, not regulate/administrate. the real issue 
	of the act is that it acts _in the interest of society_ 
	to curtail monopolistic and anti-competitive actions and
	excesses  --M$ certainly qualifies for the remedies far
	more than John D. Rockefeller's Standard Oil did in 1908.

	Bill Gates, through his _total_ dominance of the desktop, 
	
	  (with exceptiom of a few of the hardheaded/stubborn who
	  refuse to run _any_ M$ products (author included))

	is using his cash cow, swollen by gouging the consumer, to
	acquire _significant_ interests in industries which use
	computers: cable networks, cellular networks, satellite 
	networks, etc. and related industries dependent on 
	communications: news (MSNBC), television, productions, 
	etc.

	this horizontal and vertical spread of M$ is even more 
	dangerous. Bill Gates is quickly approaching critical mass
	--Bill Gates could literally bring the world to its knees--
	and Gates is a notorious control freak: there is Bill's
	way, there is Bill's way, there is...    sorry, there is
	no other way.
	
	unless the DOJ shows some spine, particularly in light of
	the appeals court ruling dumping the injunction _and_ the
	special master (which is far more critical than the public
	perceives, which is why M$ went after Lessig), the DOJ is
	going to be in and out of court with M$ until M$ literally
	buys the government or intimidates the DOJ out of the deal.  

	the scenario of forcing M$ to accommodate other OSs and
	hardware platforms might be workable, but Gates will not
	only fight it, but it will be a constant additional legal
	burden to force M$ to make the services available in a
	timely manner; in other words, the government will end
	up establishing an agency the size of the FCC just to
	regulate M$ the "controlled" monopoly (as Sen. Hatch
	threatened).

	nothing in American law says we can not have a regulated 
	monopoly if it serves the public interest --AT&T provided 
	superb and universal service for decades (many of us would 
	love to have that service today), but AT&T did _not_ 
	innovate in a timely manner at the market demand. and
	telephones are rather low tech compared to computers
	which have been subject to Grove's Law for two decades.

	M$ has not been a creative company --it is a marketing
	and control machine which acquires technology, often by
	less than socially acceptable means, and integrates it
	into M$' market offerings. credit must be given to M$
	for making the PC ubiquitous, but that value starts to
	wear very thin with M$' current market domination.

	from the perspective of serving the future interests
	of our society, the only effective option for the DOJ
	is to litigate for the divestiture of M$ into several
	operating companies --and to prevent Bill Gates from
	owning or controlling more than one division --much
	on the line of the AT&T divestiture.  

	anything less will mean continuing litigation and further
	dominance of Gates as he uses his enormous cash reserves 
	to buy control in additional markets. likewise, the orders
	must prohibit Gates from further market horizontal and
	vertical "octopussing".  

	the Sherman Act also permits market damages (M$' 50-80% 
	gross profit margin certainly qualifies as gouging) 

	    --which are then trebled; 

	that would put a cramp on Bill's $50 _billion_ net worth 
	and probably force even further divestiture of his 
	controlling stock interests.

	Gates' personality needs to be considered as a factor
	as he must control, totally control. it is not enough
	to be first in a market, he must be the only player in
	the market.  

	Gates' tactics have been deplorable: his minions go forth to
	companies and say: "...we dont know whether to buy you out, 
	or force you out..." and if the company is purchased, it is
	purchased for much less than potential or fair market value.  

	Gates does not buy just the leader, he buys outright, 
	or controls, _all_ of the players in an emerging technology
	so there will be no competition to the direction chosen for
	inclusion in the M$ product line --and the choice may not 
	be the best choice...  the market is stifled.

	unfortunately, Bill Gates is a cancer on society. it is
	the old story: deal with it today, or deal with it later
	when Gates has become an even more cash bloated and
        arrogant monster which has devoured more of societies' 
	rights and destroyed even more of the worlds' technical 
	infrastructure.  

	Bill Gates is not going to mellow with age; if anything,
	he will get more difficult. the world will be in less of
	a shock knocking the pins out from under Gates now rather
	than later.

	    attila out....
__________________________________________________________________________
    go not unto usenet for advice, for the inhabitants thereof will say:
      yes, and no, and maybe, and I don't know, and fuck-off.
_________________________________________________________________ attila__

On Sun, 28 Jun 1998, Brian wrote:

>> 	...(Compared to Gates,  Hannibal lacks vision...) 
>>
>> 	I read a statistic yesterday (I think) that 90%
>> of all PCs have Win95 installed, and Gates wants 90% of them to 'upgrade'
>> to Win98. He has 90% of the WORLD market. And the Zionist theory people
>> worry about 6% controlling 90%? What about one guy controlling 90% of the
>> PC in the world? And stopping him is a restriction of his rights as defined
>> by the American Constitution? During a debate on this, people happened to
>> mention that the constitution was partially about resisting tyranny. Gates
>> could bury ANYTHING DEEP into a new OS (remember the windows bomb joke that
>> made the rounds a while back?), and no one would know. even then, people in
>> businesses don't speak up, cause those who dissent, get fired.
>>
>>     I think that Gates should be slowed down now, while the chance is still
>> there, and (somehow) get some alternative, workable, opposition OS's up and
>> running, yet are compatible with win95/98 as well. The only way forward is
>> through both unity and diversity.
>>







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC 
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 11:55:25 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Dina Moe Hmmm... - SPACE ALIENS HIDE MYDR
Message-ID: <009C86DD.7C367360.5@west.cscwc.pima.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Dina Moe Hmmm... - SPACE ALIENS HIDE M DRUGS!!!
____________________________________________

>Return To Sender: ElvisImpersonatorChainsawMassacre@mccullagh.stihl
>Return Of Server: MX%RodLaver@west.cscw.pima.edu
>Date: Fri 13(*2) June 1998 ; 7:09 am/pm
>Subject: Hmmmm...
>
>"So what prompted you to start writing those missives to cypherpunks?" 
>
>Rectum McCullagh-Caulkin
>(aka Tim C. May, Sir Stan Sequin, Joicho Ito-Dogs, No Body,
> AnEnvelopeManufacturerToBeNamedLater, Nanny Anna Mess, etc.)

On the advice of my lawyers:
        GoDoG & DoGoD,
        Attorneys At Law & Lawlessness,
        Alpha & Omego Building, Suite 16,
        Nymphomani aks, N 010101
I have decided to tell the Truth, the Whole Truth, and also a
variety of Half-Truths, leaving it up to the responedent to
decide what level of truth HeOrShe can deal with without 
becoming despondent, thus putting even more of a burden on
the American R&D Department's booth at Juxtaposition '98 in
their competition with the Japanese L&R Juxtaposition '98
Booth, widely rumored to have been behind the Abraham Lincoln 
assassination.
In other words, your chances of getting a 'straight' answer are
comparable to the lengthy discussions in regard to the 'dick'
of a President whose name isn't even Richard, in the first place.

In defense of my rudimentary rudeness in replying ridiculously to
a perfectly reasonable and seemingly serious question, I must admit
that my intentions to provide an equally serious response to the
question above were thwarted by the intervention of a HigherPower-
CapableOfSquaringTheShitOutOfJason, in a process providing pretty
persuasive proof that the CranialConsipiracyCrapola I am about
to provide for your non-racist, but nevertheless discriminating,
mind, is nothing more nor less than as honest and direct anwer to
your question as I am capable of giving, given the grandoise nature
of the nature of the claim I am about to stake claim to, not as a
Wooden Indian nor a Vampire, but simply one who is driven by Forces
of Light and Darkness that are not only beyond my Ken to understand,
but also beyond the Barbie Wired to the MeatSpace Manifestation of
the magazine which was ultimately responsible for my ultimately
sending my intimate informational infatuations with CypherPunks
Issues, whether digital or organic, to the Disturbed Male LISP.

In short, it is those depraved motherfuckers at Wired Magazine who
must ultimately be held responsible for my continued spamming of
a SingleInnocentCypherPunk (TCM-aka Bill Helm-RadiationMan III,
Forever Hettinga, Politician Lefty Frissel, ChevyBlazer FloorMatt,
and Peter SonOfTheSumOfOneAndTuTuBeNamedLater.)
  The True Story (TM) of why I originally subscribed to the 
CPUNX Cardinal & Ms. Spelling LISP has been confirmed by the
Nine UnKnowing to be the result of a subconscious desire to
destroy the Band of Mary Anarchists by forcing them to band
together, forming a well-organized and tightly-knit political
organization dedicated to eliminating me from both DigitalSpace
and MeatSpace. In draw-string shorts, to yank the CPUNKS 
cotton chains and expose their private parts in a manner that
would leave no doubt about the fact that the Magic Circle of
WhiteLipstick around all of the 'members' provides postive
proof of the accuracy of Dr. Dimitri Vulis, KOTM's contention
that Nun of the CypherPunks were born female, and that they
are not, in fact, Anarchists, but merely LostBoys from Lost
Alamo who are alone in the world because they cannot accept
the diagnosis of Dr. Stephan Goodman, who theorizes that
they are "men who love men, every now and then," to whom the
phrase, 'blow it out your ass', has more meaning than it does
for most people.
[Spin Editor: What the Author *meant* to say, is that, as a
 result of being the subject of Direct Electrical Shock Radio 
 Experiments during his youth, he soon learned that, unless
 others in the room were gathered around the radio, the
 correct answer to the question, "Do you hear Voices?" is
 an emphatic "Nope! Not me...nosiree, Bob. Nope...not me!"]

What the Spin Editor *meant* to say, is that my early
exposure to the True Agenda (TM) of the MindPolice left
little doubt in my mind (little of practically *anything*,
actually) that one's career as a TruthMonger would allow
them to keep their head longer with a 'CourtJester@dev.null'
alias, than as "AnneBolyne@head.null', particularly if the
name of the person saying "I'd just like to ask you a few
questions." is OffWithSir Head, or who holds a position
titled 'Head Doctor' in a non-medical surgical facility.
To make a short story long, with a bend in the middle, Dog
spoke to me in a Stream piped through the fillings in my
teeth, and told me that there was one who would come before
me, to prepare my way, who would be a 'voice lying in the
wilderness', telling the masses, "I am a messenger for one
who will come after me, who is (a) greater (bullshitter) than
I, sent by Dog to sniff the rear parts of the front-men posing
as wolves, in wolves clothing, who say 'What big teeth I have...
the better to make you render unto Ceasar, that which you
mistakenly thought was yours."
Long before the Starr appeared over DC, I knew that the Virgin
Birth of William Lewinski would never have taken place if there
had not been no room for burning the double-negatives in the 
Ovulate Office which told the True Story (TM) of what had taken
place in the Lincoln bedroom as a result of a sexual Jones that
the King of the Juice could not satisfy, no matter how large
a vein he punctured in women, or vice versa, with his dirty 
needle.

Upon purchasing a copy of the Wired Magazine edition which had
the Jasons of CypherSpace on the front cover, with an article
accompanying it which I did not bother to read, instinctively 
knowing that their Goal was to XOR the Net, so that after
Jesus Saves, Louis Freeh would not be able to put in the
rebound, yanking a man's parole as a result of Space Alien FUD
indicating he had participated in the VirtualNuclearBombing
of pubic buildings eleven KILLometers from MongerItaVille.
Knowing that, even though "Ignorance is no excuse." in the 'ayes'
of a Rigged Justice System, it is better to remain silent than to
speak up and remove all doubt as to one's guilt, I merely glanced
through the copy of Wired sufficiently to confirm the Marshall
Dillon theory that smoking guns doesn't kill people, the
Message kills people, or, more accurately, that the Department
of Justice people covering up the INSLAW affair killed those on
the List of Adrian Messenger, and then put the magazine away
in DeepThroatStorage until Dog, the only Horse I ever bet on
(although I have shot a lot of Horse over the years, sometimes
on the basketball court, sometimes in a seedy alley behind the
GreyHound Computer Buss Station), gave me a No Smoking Gun sign,
with the election of a Wise Man who rose from the dead three
times, as LazerAss Long (cousin of Johnny Wadd), drinking cold
HeinleinKin, playing the SexAPhone at $4.99/minute, running up
the WhiteHouse phone bill and the Federal Deficit, and making
such outstanding use of BlatantLies that his Pole rose in the
Polls at a rate that astounded even Poles named Lewinski, 
leading me to realize that, had I, like Marlo Branded, the 
Rifleman on the grassy knoll, despite my reputation as a 
traitorous, lying coward, followed my instincts and run for 
President of the United States of America, "I could'a been 
a contend'a..."

My point, if I may be so Bold (although without Italics, having
never been to Sicily) to state it plainly (without extra cheese),
is that Lucky Green is a fucking idiot...
He is such an ignorant, Robotically Programmed Sheeple, 
incapable of free, independent thought, that the only possible
way to accurately impress upon you his total devoidness (coming
soon to a dictionary near you) of hope in ever truly understanding
the concepts of True Freedom, Liberty and the Pursuit of Felony
Happiness, can be illustrated only by sharing with you the
"True Story (TM) of TruthMangler", Penguin Books, FrostBack
Division.
  'The True Story of the InterNet' when stripped of all of the
grandoise, pretentious, mystical FUD surrounding its artificial
dissemination across HyperSpace, can be summarized by quoting
"All My Lies Are True", by Carroll.
  "All my lies are true.
   And everything I do, I really am."
Believe it or not, Ripley, that's all there is... That's the
whole fucking poem. In the end, that's all there really is
to say.

Upon receiving an email from AnInterViewerToBeNamedLater, who
was named earlier, in the 'BumBoy III' chapter of Space Aliens
Hide My Drugs (which, correctly, should also have single quotes
around the title), I was quite prepared to write a short, simple
response to the question, "So what prompted you to start writing 
those missives to cypherpunks?"
As always, the fillings in my teeth convinced Reality to become
a participant in an Intervention program designed to thwart my
efforts to continue the heavy drug-use enabling me to be 'normal'
and 'saved' me from sanity by using the TV program, '60 Minutes',
to embody The Voice (TM) coming from the BurningBush, calling
for a "New World Order", reminding me that the BurningBush in
the bunker outside of Berlin was a clever ruse, later to become
a 'play on words' in a Braun Shaver advertising campaign that
referred to a 'close shave', to disguise the fact that it is
the AdamAntartic that holds the key to FrostBack Musicians
embedding hints in their music in regard to the Reptilian
Nazis biding their time, emerging from Florida puddles to
dine on the gonads of FrenchConnection Poodles, leading me to
realize that I forgot to mention how my insanity illustrates 
Lucky Green's ignorance.
(But, before I return to that subject, I should take the time
to explain that this disjointed '60 Minutes' diatribe refers
to the fact that my efforts at a 'direct reply' to D.M. Stihl's
question was interrupted by a sychronicitious eruption from
The Tube ("Watch me and I'll bleed you, 'Cause you eat the
shit I feed you") during which Leslie Stahl (not to be confused
with the chainsaw with a similar name), presented a piece called
'The Rumor Mill', in which she ignored the attempts of InterNet
Magazine's Edwin Cantor (?) to explain that the Freedom Of The
InterNet was a Healing Force capable of returning HumanKind to
a Wholistic State wherein we use our minds to discriminate 
between FUD (Fear/Uncertainty/Disinformation), MUD (Mind/
Uniformity/Disinformation) and CRUD (Conscious Realists
Using Discrimination), thereby forcing the InterNet User/
Consumer to actually Think (TM) before accepting any of
the information that is pulled, prodded or pushed into the
range of their perceptive attention...
Hang on a second, I lost my train of thought...
Oh, yeah! Anyway, Leslie Stahl, desperately attempting to
maintain the illusion that MainStream Lies piped through
the OfficialNewsStream are preferable to Non-Officially-
Recognized-Lies on J. Orlin Grabbe's 'World's 50 Greatest 
Conspiracies' website, subliminally inserted the bent logic
of the pricks in DC, using words such as Junk/Regulation/
OnLinePoliceMan(no mention of toilet plungers...go figure)/
BadInformation...
Fuck completing that train of thought! 'BadInformation' implies
that the Freedom To Choose To Believe BadInformation does not
exist, and that NetiZens, like CitiZens, are all Sheeple who
need the people from the government, who are here to help us,
to step in and regulate/legislate which BadInformation will be
magically transformed into Reality by blessing it with the
OfficalSealOfApproval.
Random Thought That MayOrMayNot Apply #27:
Question: "Who was not happy to see the Prodigal Son return?"
Answer: "The fatted calf."
My point is this: "Penned cattle have been found to gain as
much weight when fed a combination of drugs, shredded newspaper
and animal excrement, as when fed whole grains."
Therefore, it is not in the best interests of the ProfitMongers
to feed us the Truth, and, CitiZen or NetiZen, it is in our own
best interest, when we meet the Bubba on the road, to kill him.)

[Idioter's Note: Good prosecutors, recognizing the limited
 attention span of the spawn of pawns of modern civilization,
 due to being force-fed ten-second sound-bytes, and hyphenated
 words designed to evoke emotive responses rather than logical
 thought processes, would have long ago begged the Court Of
 Public Opinion for a short recess, in order to allow the
 Readers/Jurors time to grab a bite to eat, suck down a cold
 beer or two, and engage in sexual fantasies about their
 fellow jurors.
 However, the Author plans to proceed, uninterrupted, even
 though HeOrShe risks once again letting the SAHMD manuscript
 fall into semi-coherent mad ramblings, since HeOrShe realizes
 that, if the Reader has not yet learned to order Pizza, Beer,
 and AMasseuseToBeMaimedLater before undertaking the burdensome
 task of reading the True Story manuscripts, then they are most
 likely a goddamn Republican, anyway, with little hope of ever
 truly understanding a missive meant to manipulate their mind
 toward a realistic, non-discriminatory political point of view
 which can only be understood by Democrats who are willing to
 sit in the back of the bus with niggers and spics, although
 they inevitably shit their pants and jump back on the bus
 if one of those thieving fucking darkies happens to get off
 at the same stop as they do.*
 *This racist interlude is a paid advertisement, sponsered by
  Democratic Friends of the Kluless Klux Klan.
 Anyway, I have forgotten where this aside was going, but I
 just remembered I was attempting to get back to explaining
 how my derision of Lucky Green is, in reality, a veiled
 reference to my own idiocy, so I will do that...]

I was devestated when Lucky Green, wearing a Prozac T-Shirt,
while I, on the other hand, had a pocket full of Prozac, told
me, "I read 'The Xenix Chainsaw Massacre', but I didn't
understand what it was about."
I was devastated as a result of realizing that Lucky was nothing
more nor less than a mindless, robotic result of the *new*
generation of programmed, robotic Sheeple. I was devastated
because Lucky was a reminder that, despite my great pretensions
of being an anarchistic, free, individual, capable of independent
thought, I was just as guilty of unthinking automatism, with the
main difference between myself and Lucky being that the programming
I had bought into had tailfins and cruise control, instead of
point-and-click and multimedia capability.
In effect, although I considered myself some exemplary example
of the evolution of mankind (usually remembering to refer to
'humankind' to illustrate my UniSexual/NonRacist/Politically 
Correct rEvolutionAiryFairy development), I was actually a
fraud--not a TruthMonger, but a JokeMonger.

  While allowing myself the luxury of consternation over Lucky
Green being of a GenerationX which could not recognize the
prophetic warnings contained in 'The Xenix Chainsaw Massacre',
due to having been educated in an era where the 'BB/BB' tattoo
on a child's forehead, indicating that one was a BumBoy owned
by BigBrother (replacing childhood circumcision indicating that
a child was owned by the GodOfMoses), I nonetheless comforted
myself with the thought that *my* cowardly acceptance of 'the
way things are', illustrated by using my sense of ironic humor
to poke fun at things I knew to be insane, instead of taking
a firm, serious stand that ultimately results in crucifixion,
in Palestine, or to being barbequed, in Texas (see...there I 
go again), was somehow superior to the cowardice of Lucky's
generation, which gives Non-Sexual LipService to freedom,
privacy and anarchy, while preparing for an old-age where
they will undoubtedly justify their lack of total committment
to fighting the GreatEvil of their time by saying, "es, but
when the Computer was Fuhrer, the trains ran on time...until
the year 2000, of course."
I, like Lucky and the rest of the CypherPunks, told myself
that the problem was Dimitri, always trying to push Black
Unicorn's envelope, and not accepting my excuse that I wasn't 
really a cocksucker, but merely accepting of the fact that
BigBrother had a lot of mouths to feed...

[I know that I've rambled on too long to really hold the
 attention of a generation that traded in twenty-minute
 guitar solos for a Pentium processor, and really don't
 have time to wait for me to get to the point of what
 I am trying to say (despite their refusal to admit that
 the only reason they need a Pentium processor, in the
 first place, is to speed up the downloading of the ads
 on the Anti-SPAM Anarchist WebPage they are accessing,
 not to mention the mountains of excess commas contained
 in the 'True Story' manuscripts...).
 However, I need to run to the Liquor Store, giving the
 soft-drug old farts on the CPUNKS list a chance to "smoke
 'em if you got 'em," (<--correct punctuation, will wonders
 never cease?) and the young pissants on the CPUNX list a
 chance to throw on a New Crusty Nostrils CD, 'Ramblin', 
 featuring 'Green, Green', (<--incorrect punctuation)
 little realizing that the USENET post referring to the
 album as the product of a CypherPunks Action Project first
 appeared on April 1st, and that Lucky wasn't even born when
 it was recorded.
 BAD NEWS!!! - I'll be back...]




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 04:07:25 -0700 (PDT)
To: Anonymous #49812 
Subject: (no subject)Re: Premail (and Replay)
Message-ID: <199806291108.NAA19606@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Anonymous #49812 wrote:
> On 28 Jun 1998, Secret Squirrel wrote:
>
> > Also, remailer@replay.com appears to have been deleted. The 'remailer'
> > user is unknown.
> 
> That's correct. I don't know what happened.

Oh, really?




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: CTIA Daily News 
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 11:17:20 -0700 (PDT)
To: CTIA Daily News 
Subject: CTIA Daily News from WOW-COM - June 29, 1998
Message-ID: <199806291808.NAA00067@revnet4.revnet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



=============================================
Welcome to today's edition of the CTIA Daily News
from WOW-COM.  Please click on the icon / attachment
for the most important news in wireless communications today.

CALEA Summit being held July 21 & 22 in Washington, DC.
Register Now!!  Call (202) 785-0081
=============================================


From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bryan Waters 
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 11:36:54 -0700 (PDT)
To: "Geoffrey C. Grabow" 
Message-ID: <199806291836.OAA02926@omniwork.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 05:49 PM 6/27/98 -0400, Geoffrey C. Grabow wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
>TriStrata has announced that is has a product that provides OTP without the
>pad distribution problem.  The product also has a unique key-recovery
>system.  Check out:
>
>
>http://www.tristrata.com
>
>for details.
>
I wish there were more details.  Namely how they generate their 10^30 byte
"virtual keystream".
In order to be a true one-time pad the keystream needs to be completely
random, this looks more like a psuedo-random stream cypher to me.  But it
should be fast and still might be secure.  

As a competing one-time pad vendor I don't want to be a pot calling the
kettle black, but If I've learned anything from the cypherpunks, it's prove
it.  Which is what we've tried to do.


Bryan Waters                                    http://www.ultimateprivacy.com
Director of Marketing                    Voice: 512-305-0505 Fax: 512-305-0506
Ultimate Privacy Corporation       3925 W Braker Ln #305, Austin, TX, 78759  




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Xcott Craver 
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 13:35:07 -0700 (PDT)
To: Bryan Waters 
Subject: Re: Finally... a One-Time-Pad implementation that works!!!
In-Reply-To: <199806291836.OAA02926@omniwork.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Mon, 29 Jun 1998, Bryan Waters wrote:

> >TriStrata has announced that is has a product that provides OTP without the
> >pad distribution problem.  The product also has a unique key-recovery
> >system.  Check out:

	No pad distribution problem, but it has a key-recovery system,
	AND the pad is truly random?

> >http://www.tristrata.com
> >
> >for details.

	This must be a typo:  that URL doesn't contain any details.

> I wish there were more details.  Namely how they generate their 10^30 byte
> "virtual keystream".

	Which brings up one more point:  the web page mentions the
	estimated time it takes to "defeat" an encrypted message,
	via brute force.  If it really was a one-time pad, it 
	wouldn't be possible to "defeat" it by brute-force.

							-Caj




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ray Arachelian 
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 13:58:20 -0700 (PDT)
To: "Geoffrey C. Grabow" 
Subject: Re: Finally... a One-Time-Pad implementation that works!!!
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3597FEA9.19A7D5D3@brainlink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Great... more snake oil.... :( 

Geoffrey C. Grabow wrote:
> 
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> 
> TriStrata has announced that is has a product that provides OTP without the
> pad distribution problem.  The product also has a unique key-recovery
> system.  Check out:
> 
> http://www.tristrata.com
> 
> for details.
> 
> ****************************************************************************
> *************
> PGP 5.5.3 Fingerprint: 15B3 DDC1 93BB 4BDF  4DFD 1B27 12A1 E0C4
> ****************************************************************************
> *************
> 
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: PGPfreeware 5.5.3i for non-commercial use 
> 
> iQEVAwUBNZVo5dc2wHb8nZI1AQFqngf/bCJVbMQX/5sYb181CLONmqWjPzhQ66Ef
> HoyPqxRzEyq4FSWnIuQODH/YTeyyQROUqCZGhC19v8PCiZpI1ynSvn4i+Zcjv9I0
> OZBThzKayNoMne7TkNr49Ah9BwDK6XuwS9bns1xM65zfKLpvKP2gboWkADD52K4w
> eUuJx/cTaR7PgdO/q6nrVRNq1jlaJsFBKGt2q5E1S12ZK1nA+mpKAS95XMgr2IMx
> 5/wJ+jsOIUTn2gWR64nhluOgmcACeIVsiRlsGqfUdL8gJHAl0gaQ7E1+HSOBx60K
> Ur5x5MzQKBKlWcoDaEXB1AsICW2enwdGVOxPBklq1CbcQxFXdBj1DQ==
> =vZmi
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

-- 

=====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos==============
.+.^.+.|  Ray Arachelian    |Prying open my 3rd eye.  So good to see |./|\.
..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were      |/\|/\
<--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run  |\/|\/
../|\..| "A toast to Odin,  |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/.
.+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were....            |.....
======================= http://www.sundernet.com ==========================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC 
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 19:13:58 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Diana Moe Hmmm... - SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS!!!
Message-ID: <009C871A.C38D9E40.5@west.cscwc.pima.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Return Of Beyond The Planet Of The Valley Of 
Diana Moe Hmmm... - SPACE ALIENS, ETC., ETC.
____________________________________________

  No doubt there are a variety of self-impressed, elitist
CypherPunks who have grown used to my weird capitalization
of the word 'cypherpunks', as well as my excess use of
commas, and incorrect punctuation, having come to recognize 
that these things are part of my personal 'writing style'
(although few realize that, being too lazy to look up
proper spelling, and too ignorant to understand the reasons
behind 'correct' punctuation, I am merely cloaking my sloth
and stupidity under a croak of eccentric Oriental genius).
  However, there are undoubtedly a few egoistical self-proclaimed
geniuses on the CypherPunks Disturbed Male LISP who have noticed
the 'Dina' spelling of the last chapter title being out-of-sync
with the 'Diana' spelling of the current chapter title (see
above), and mentally ridiuculed me as really being the sorry
drunk I keep claiming to be, thinking that I am only dimly 
aware of the difference between my drunk&ignorant-but-honest
typos and literary mistakes, and the typos and mistakes which
I quickly recognize to have deep meaning, and are therefore
inviolate proofs of my true inner genius, in need of no
correction, even if I happen to spot the error.
  If you noticed the discrepancy mentioned above, and were
indeed mentally degrading my literary talent, while considering
yourself to be superior to me because of your ability to 
imitate a robotic computer spell-checking program, you would,
in this case, be quite correct in your assumption, since it
was really a meaninless mistake, but one I will not bother
to rectify, since I am currently both lazy and drunk.

  However, you smart-ass sons-of-bitches, it would be a serious
mistake to fail to realize that my failings in character in no
way negate my obvious intellectual superiority over all of the
pretentious fools who consider themselves part of an elite 
group of PseudoMathematicalGeniusAnarchists because of their
participation in Legendary LevelWithTheGround InterNet
Community MailingList Composed Of Subscribers Who Are Using
11% Of Their Potential BrainPower, and considering themselves
to be 'above' the other InterNet Elitists who are using only
the 'documented average' 10% of their potential brainpower,
and who, in turn, consider themselves to be superior to the 
AOL'ers who believe that their IQ is somehow related to the 
speed of their computer's processor (NOT!!!).

  The short and simple answer to the question, ""So what 
prompted you to start writing those missives to cypherpunks?"
is: "On a mailing list of elitist geniuses using only 11% of 
their potential brainpower, the person using 12% is King!"
  Thus I am able to toy with you silly fools, having little
fear of someone who uses 13% of their brainpower subscribing 
to the CypherPunks list, and putting me in my place, since a
person capable of using 13% of their brain would likely be
above joining the list in the first place...

Why I Send My Missives To The CypherPunks List #327:
   I truly recognize the past, current and future subscribers
to InterNet forums/experiences such as the CypherPunks to be
the only real hope for a world of VirtualReality to rise above
and go beyond the vicious MeatSpaceRealityCycles which are
evident throughout millennia of human history.
  Thus, I feel it incumbent upon myself, as your intellectual
superior, to impress upon you what an ignorant, silly asshole
I am...

  ou stupid fucks think I'm being silly, again, don't you?
I'm fucking serious!!!

  While I truly consider myself to be the current epitome of
human evolution to this point in time, I would, nonetheless,
upon being recognized for my great wisdom and genius and
declared King Of The World, issue a press statement advising
everyone to kill themselves, since a world under my control
would be a scary thing, indeed.
  As far as the world currently being under the control of
murderers and thieves who seem to have a lot of trouble
figuring out some of the more rudimentary things in life,
such as pulling up their fly upon entering the Offal Office,
I really prefer not to think about that, which I am sure
can be understood by voters in Boston, Chicago, ad infinitum,
who eventually figured out that the slogan, "Vote Early, Vote
Often" was not really a part of the original Constitution, as
their Ward Bosses had claimed.

The Original Peter Principle:
  Civilization and Human Behavior provide hard evidence that
Creatures From The Primordial Swamp who crawled out to become
Middle Managers in the Gene Pool did so about a billion years
ahead of schedule.

The Original Clinton Inaugural Address:
  "Most of my time, energy and money was spent on women, booze,
drugs and gambling--the rest I just wasted, eventually becoming 
Governor, and then President."

The Original Commandment:
  "Buy a fucking Clue!"


  I guess that what I am really trying to say is, "As insane
as it would be for you to vote for me as the new King Of The
World / Ruler Of All That Exists / New World Order Dictator,
etc., etc., it would be even more insane for you to *not*
vote for me if I was running against the people currently in
control of our governments and society.

Why I Send My Missives To The CypherPunks List #18:
  My only hope of being understood when I say, "I may be a
stupid fuck, but at least I'm not a stupid fuck." lies in
preaching to an audience that has the ability to understand
that ogi Berra's statement, "It's DejaVu all over again."
was nothing more nor less than A DirectMessageFromGod, 
designed to serve as the Cole's Notes To Universal Human
History From The Beginning Of Time, in a format that would
allow us to write it on a slip of paper we could tuck into
the elastic of our panties, in preparation for the FinalExam.
  True Initiates into the Mythical Circle of Eunuchs have long
understood that my obsession with peeking up women's skirts is
not the result of sexual depravity, but a highly spiritual
exercise in recognizing the difference between the masses of
Sheeple who truly benefit from the advice to wear clean
undergarments, in case they get hit by a bus, and those whose
unique, individual spark of life allows them to recognize that
they can step beyond society's strict moral programming by not
wearing any undergarments at all.

  Although I am currently up to my ass in drunken alligators,
I am still capable of remembering that my original objective
was to drain the Scotch...


And The Way This Relates To Craptographics Is:
  What is encryption, if not the epitome of the Anarchy Of  
Meaning?  
  David Byrne, Largely Suited to serve as the Talking Head
who *could* be the originator of the Voice we hear, asking
us, "Psycho Killer, Qu'est Que C'est?", if we actually owned
a radio, understood that when Bob Dylan sang, "Johnny's in 
the basement, mixing up the medicine...", it was an oblique
reference to Owsley developing a chemical technique to thwart
the MindPolice by using LSD to encrypt one's thought processes.
  The Moody Blues, recognizing that the hippie movement arose
in response to Freedom and Privacy being threatened by a
GreyHound Restroom Public Key System that could be broken by
anyone with a dime, warned us that Timothy Leary, sick, depraved
pervert that he was, was 'outside, looking in', alerting us to
the fact that 'Free Shit' was nothing more than a corporate
advertising ploy by NewAge Gurus who wanted to save the cost
of a dime while buggering us, by telling us we may have won
'Free Film For Life.'
  Phil Zimmerman, Hero Of The TellGovernmentToSitOnItAndRotate
Revolution, provided us with the tools we needed to have a
genuinely Free Shit in Pretty Good Privacy, enabling us to 
lock the door while we crapped out our pearls of wisdom, 
while the anal-retentive government agents on the other side 
of the restroom-stall door dropped their dime, upon finding
out that the cost of peeking up the public's butt had risen
exhorbantly, due to those fucking California Hippie Trouble
Makers slipping 'acid' in their email.

  The point that I probably would have made much earlier in
this chapter, were it not for the fact that I am a drunken,
inconsiderate asshole who fails to realize that *some* people
have better things to do than to waste their time wondering
where the fuck I get all of these goddamn commas, is this:
  Anarchy is our only hope...

  Surely anyone who has been paying attention to life around
them could not have failed to realize that if society elects
some bum going through the dumpster, to look for lunch, to an
official government position that designates him to be the
person responsible for removing doggie-doo from the city
streets (no salary, but all you can eat...), he soon declares
that he needs more money and a larger staff to do his job
properly, funds research indicating that dog owners are a
threat to Family Values, Apple Pie and the American Flag,
presses for Law&Order legislation adding Thirty-Five Dog
ears to the sentence of any Monger or Mongrel who is found
guilty of 'squatting' in commission of a poop, and calls for
the censorship of 'The Doggie Of Anne Frank' because of
its graphic descriptions of FIDO crapping in a secret room 
in the attic, to avoid discovery by the DoggiePoop Gestapo.
  If you think I'm being a WiseGuy, then think again, because,
if memory serves me correctly, this was the lead headline of
News Of The Weird last week, even though the original source
for the article was on page 4,385 of the New ork Times.


The first act of organized religion was to fuck up the Lord's
Prayer.
Anarchy is our only hope...

The first act of organized government was to raise taxes so
that they could give themselves a pay raise.
Anarchy is our only hope...

  It is a knee-jerk reaction to bend over to pick up the soap
when somebody drops it, but it doesn't matter *who* fucks you,
it doesn't matter *how* they fuck you, *when* they fuck you,
or *why* they fuck you...the bottom line is this: If you remain
silent, ignoring the pain and indignity, listening to the still,
small voice of the Tao, you hear the Voice of Eternity echoing
from the birth of time to the death of the ten-thousand things,
whispering what was shouted by a great ogi, upon realizing that
the BigBang was actually a FistFucking KnuckleBall headed Hell
Bent For Leather (a California company) toward the Great Void
where the sun don't shine...you hear the Tao bend over and
whisper, "It's DejaVu, all over again."
Anarchy is our only hope...

Dr. Seuss Explains Sex To Children During His Prostrate Check:
  After God created Adam, he took a bone out of Adam's side
and created Eve. The first thing Adam did was give Eve another
bone-from behind, as he wanted it to be a surprise.
  If two people exist on the face of the planet, then, as surely
as night follows day, one of them is going to get fucked.
Anarchy is our only hope...

LIFE IN HELL Goes Country:
  If you can see two assholes on a horse, without lifting its
tail, then it is a good bet that they are voting to steal your
money and your freedom.
Anarchy is our only hope...

 
  We live in a world where, in a country in which starving
children are dying by the millions, the greatest threat to
those who manage to survive a FamineInTheMidstOfPlenty is
the ArmySurplusLandmine Company's 'Democracy' model, which
is guanteed to blow the limbs off of terrorists and freedom-
fighters, men, women and children, without discrimination as
to race, creed or color, although the guarantee clearly states
that it is not the responsibility of the manufacturer to see
that it serves the purpose for which it was originally 
intended, according the color-glossy brochures distributed 
by retired armed services officers now making the BigBucks as
DC corporate whores.
  
  "The Democracy Model Landmine"
  "Our most popular item, due to the billions of dollars in
   advertising given to its name through the use of taxpayer
   money being spent by unelected entities, both within and
   outside of government circles, was built and designed by
   highly qualified engineers and technicians to 'Save The
   Life Of A Single Child.'
  "As you can see from the pie-charts below, a computer
   simulation showed that a minimum distribution of a 
   hundred units per square mile is sufficient to save
   the life of a single child, providing that the child 
   is not so unfortunate as to accidentally step on a
   landmine."

Anarchy is our only hope...

[GOVERNMENT REQUIRED NOTIFICATION:]
This chapter of 'Space Aliens Hide My Drugs'is a paid
advertisement for the Bienfait Nutly News "Anarchy Is
Our Only Hope' Christmas Special, available in boxes of 
individually-wrapped 1's and 0's (in quantities of 8, 16, 
32, 64...)  
The perfect gift for grouchy old farts who still have the 
box of Pecans you sent them last Christmas, because they 
put their dentures in their shoes, and they can't find 
their godamn shoes, and when they asked for help in a 
post to the CypherPunks list, they got a hundred anonymous 
emails from assholes telling them to, "Check the archives."
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: netcenter-news@netscape.com
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 22:39:42 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: Netcenter News - Volume 8 - July 1998
Message-ID: <199806300539.WAA26479@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


  
 

Title: Netscape Netcenter News - July 1998








































Welcome to Netcenter
Netcenter is dedicated to the proposition that you should be able to find everything you need online in one place. This newsletter is one of the free benefits you receive for registering with a Netcenter program.



























Employers! Job seekers! Post a job or resume, browse job listings, promote your company, or get career information easily with Netcenter's new Career Center.























A beta version of Netscape Communicator 4.5 will be available to the public in early July. This latest version of Communicator will include improvements such as Smart Browsing as well as enhanced messaging and roaming access.














 



 

 
A 1998 SPA Codie Award Winner, Netscape Publishing Suite is now just $49.95 ($129.95 value). Get MasterClips 33,000 or Net Accelerator for just $10 with purchase.
















Netscape respects your online time and Internet privacy. If you would
prefer not to receive the monthly Netcenter News, please go to the Netscape
section of In-Box Direct and uncheck the Netcenter News
item. You may also, click here to send an unsubscribe email
or reply to this message with the word unsubscribe in the subject line.



Copyright (c) 1998. 
Netscape Communications Corporation.
All rights reserved.





























NETSCAPE 
NETCENTER: 
YOUR 
SPRINGBOARD 
TO 
THE 
INTERNET



Jump from here. That's the launch-point attitude at Netcenter's new Internet portal. Starting in July, Netcenter will incorporate 16 new business and consumer channels, along with a variety of new services. From downloading software upgrades automatically to sending flowers, Netcenter channels offer immediate access to goods, services, and a wealth of information.
 
Among the new services, Smart Browsing is designed to help you navigate the tricky waters of the Internet. With Internet Keywords, simply type a word such as "Ford" and blast to Ford's site. What's Related displays a list of dynamic links to related sites - great for online research or shopping. Netscape Search & Directory boosts your searches with a complete line-up of search engines in one location. Use My Netscape to design your "home on the web," a personalized home page that displays the information you use every day - news, stock quotes, sports, and more - the moment you log on. WebMail, Netcenter's free email service, allows you to respond to messages automatically and to integrate your organizer's address book with your email. Members can scan incoming attachments for viruses and even be paged when they receive high-priority messages.
 
Netscape Netcenter. Dive in - the water's fine.




SmartUpdate is expanding! Netscape has signed agreements with more than 20 leading software companies to make their products available, free of charge, for automatic download via the SmartUpdate service.




Netcenter members can SAVE $10 on all software at Netscape Software Depot by software.net. Limited time offer!




Join Member Directory and choose your Netcenter member name now - before the Netcenter 2.0 rush. Then, search for friends or new acquaintances.




Thanks to everyone who took part in last month's survey about online communities!
Here is what 2000 of you told us:

In general, newsgroups and instant messaging are more popular than chat.
Only 15 percent of you hadn't tried any kind of online community.


Of those who do visit communities, 44 percent go daily and 20 percent go several times
a day.


The thing you like most about your visits is the ability to see what other
people are thinking.


The most popular forum in Netcenter's Professional Connections is the Product
Center.

This month's survey is about customizing web pages. We invite you to tell us what you'd like to see in a personalized home page!


















From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: cyp@cyp.dcl.com
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 22:54:58 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks-unedited@toad.com
Subject: Info on Jim Bell
Message-ID: <435jfhdhfds3dcl.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


  Jim has been arrested again and he is in the Federal Detention Center
  at Seattle. Jim wants people to write him at:

    James Bell #26906086
    Federal Detention Center
    P.O. Box 68976
    Seattle WA 98168




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Carl Ellison 
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 21:20:05 -0700 (PDT)
To: cme@acm.org
Subject: change of address
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980630001829.04c56ee8@pop3.clark.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I am moving from CyberCash.

Until I get the new work account set up in a month or so, please replace

cme@cybercash.com

with

cme@acm.org

Thanks,
	Carl

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.5.3

iQA/AwUBNZhnFJSWoQShp/waEQJYKwCeIDZe9E67VOL2fin2L2unLYJfhCQAnRfL
HFncaiI5a/n/rpBAEO2zgavF
=pU5t
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


+------------------------------------------------------------------+
|Carl M. Ellison       cme@acm.org    http://www.clark.net/pub/cme |
|    PGP: 08FF BA05 599B 49D2  23C6 6FFD 36BA D342                 |
+-Officer, officer, arrest that man. He's whistling a dirty song.--+




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: specialnews4u@usa.net
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 01:16:36 -0700 (PDT)
To: specialnews4u@usa.net
Subject: PERSONAL NOTICE
Message-ID: <199806300816.BAA27797@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


HI. I APOLOGIZE FOR THIS INTRUSION ,    
BUT YOU MAY THANK ME FOR THIS .

COULD YOU USE AN EXTRA $ 25,000  NEXT WEEK  ? 
                                  
THEN  GIVE ME ONE MINUTE OF  YOUR TIME...   

IT MIGHT  BE WORTH A MILLION DOLLARS   

Dear Friend, 

My name is David Ross and I need YOU.

Let me explain

I reside in an island paradise . I entertain on a 75 ft. yacht . 
I travel the world by private lear jet .
I drive 8 cars including two Ferraris,  a Rolls Royce Corniche 
and a 1955 gull wing Mercedes worth over a million dollars. 
I party with supermodels , world famous celebrities and diplomats.
Banks are constantly trying to lend me money at prime rates..
but I don't need them any more. 

However, it wasn't always like this.

Until 1995 I was working for the telephone company .
I drove a 1989 Chrysler LeBaron and had over $50,000 
in revolving debt.
It seemed that I would never get ahead and was doomed 
to be a loser .

In my spare time I studied every money making system out there.
In fact , I often ordered 10 new money making systems a month.
I guess this is one of the main reasons I was so over extended 
on my credit cards.
You could say that my single obsession was investigating profit systems .

Then , one day , I was doing research on grants at the library.
I accidentally discovered something that all the B.S.money making books 
never mentioned  This simple discovery brought in:
$1,876.89  FOR THREE HOURS WORK !

Over the next 5 weeks , 
I proved to myself that this method worked 
time after time....EVERY TIME !  
Then , at the beginning of the next month, 
I opened my bank statement. 
My jaw dropped opened to discover that there was

$ 265,832.91  IN MY CHECKING ACCOUNT ! 

I had discovered  a secret program  
that virtually forced people to give me money ! 

After a period of  11 incredibly exciting months , 
I discovered that I had made

$ 1,454,742.39   
working about three hours per night from home.

All without spending a dime on office rent or employees, 
and while keeping my current job.....
which I soon quit after many  years 
( to hell with the pension and benefits ) . 
Then I made another exciting break through !  
I thought,

" WOW.... ANYBODY COULD DO THIS..
   IF THEY ONLY KNEW HOW ! "

This has lead me to an even faster and easier way 
to get richer : WORKING WITH PEOPLE JUST LIKE YOU ! 
I am going to help a few others 
DO EXACTLY THE SAME THINGS I HAVE DONE ! 
AND PROFIT RIGHT ALONG WITH YOU FROM 
YOUR OWN POWERFUL RESULTS !
I've  developed a comprehensive , easy to understand  
PRIVATE REPORT .  A complete

STEP BY STEP , FOOLPROOF BLUEPRINT   
FOR YOUR VERY OWN PERSONAL CASH MACHINE

THE  INSTANT CASH REPORT 
is just like having a legal printing press to  

MAKE SERIOUS MONEY ANYTIME YOU WANT !  
SIMPLE INSTRUCTIONS   WORK FROM HOME , 
OR  ANYWHERE ELSE YOU WANT TO BE.
GUARANTEED  

Are you skeptical ? I understand. So was I ..at first.
SO PLEASE ... DON'T TAKE MY WORD FOR IT.    
SEE FOR YOURSELF  

TEST IT OUT     ABSOLUTELY RISK FREE !
 In fact..you  WILL be completely convinced that this system
WILL make you at least 10,000 times what you paid for the report 
or I'll send you your money back..
NO QUESTIONS ASKED . EVEN ONE YEAR LATER .

GUARANTEED  .   

Frankly, I don't know why anybody would want to waste  time
 .....but I am that confident. 
Take a full year to TEST THIS SYSTEM 
and if you're not 100 % SATISFIED 
during your one year NO RISK TRIAL...
 I' LL SIMPLY REFUND EVERY PENNY TO YOU. 
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SHORT ON START UP CASH ?  NOT A PROBLEM ! 

The administrative  cost for personally registering 
your  Instant Cash Report to you is just $ 49.95  
And you can put this program to work IMMEDIATELY . 
Your profits should be rolling in  WITHIN DAYS .

REMEBER... IF YOU WANT SOMETHING YOU'VE NEVER HAD..
YOU MUST DO SOMETHING YOU'VE NEVER DONE.. 

AND LETS FACE IT...THE TIME IS NOW .

BE AMONG THE FEW TO PROFIT 
ON THIS AMAZING OPPORTUNITY 
WHILE IT LASTS

I GUARANTEE YOU  > 
The Instant Cash report can be your ticket to
 A NEW LIFE ..just like it was for me.
Obtain the kind of freedom and retirement 
that you deserve .. Please..forget social security.

MAKE IT ALL NOW  WORKING FROM HOME 
JUST A FEW HOURS PER DAY !

But I urge you to act now..
New regulations may soon eliminate this opportunity forever , 
THEREFORE...TO INSURE  MAXIMUM  RESULTS 
FOR MY PARTICIPANTS 
I AM LIMITING THE DISTRIBUTION 
OF THE INSTANT CASH REPORT TO THOSE
WHO WILL USE IT WISELY AND ARE SERIOUS 
ABOUT ENDING THEIR FINACIAL CONCERNS .....FOR LIFE !  

THIS OFFER WILL BE WITHDRAWN WITHOUT NOTICE.
RESPOND TODAY

SO  NOW ..YOU DECIDE.  

WHICH  DO YOU  PREFER ...
TO KEEP .WORKING HARD  ? ..
OR START WORKING SMART !  

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Note: You must agree to remit 5 % of your gross revenues 
          from Instant Cash to my company.  
          You nust sign an agreement promising not to divulge
           its contents to anybody else .
           Because of the explosive nature of this program, 
           it is necessary to limit distribution .
           In order to maximize the results for all participants. 
           This offer will soon be discontined without further notice . 
            I urge you to act now .

METHOD OF PAYMENT IS BY CHECK DRAFT FACSIMILE ONLY  
                               
1.  MAKE OUT YOUR CHECK FOR  $ 49.95  ( U.S ) TO :   
 
     ARIEL PUBLISHING GROUP
                                                                    
2.  IN THE LOWER LEFT CORNER OF THE CHECK PRINT: 

     INSTANT CASH REPORT
    ( make sure you sign and date the check ) 

3.  ATTACH YOUR CHECK TO A FAX COVER PAGE . 

4.  ON THE FAX COVER PAGE PRINT THE FOLLOWING :

      ATTENTION  DAVID. ROSS  DEPT. IC441
      PLEASE SEND ME THE INSTANT CASH REPORT. 
      I HEREBY AGREE NOT TO DIVULGE  ANY PART OF ITS 
      CONTENTS TO THIRD PARTIES. I ALSO AGREE TO PAY 
      5 PER CENT OF THE PROFITS FROM INSTANT CASH TO :
      ROSS ENTERPRISES INC.

NEXT.... SIGN YOUR NAME DIRECTLY UNDER THAT STATEMENT. 
THEN ....CLEARLY PRINT:  YOUR NAME , 
FULL MAILING  ADDRESS ,ZIP/POSTAL CODE , 
YOUR PHONE NUMBER  AND E-MAIL ADDRESS

(  Sorry,  no orders can be processed unless
 the instructions above are followed exactly              
Please do not respond to this note via e-mail
Due to the actions of anti - commercial e-mail
vandals , we do not maintain an e-mail responder )              
    
4. FAX THIS MATERIAL TO :  
( 01 ) 404 - 685 - 0905  (  for best results : dial then press "send" )

SHIPPED  BY FIRST CLASS  MAIL . 

Ariel Publishing Group is not affiliated with Ross Enterprises 
or any other entity. Ariel Publishing Group makes no claim or 
warranty regarding the content , nature or intended use of this material  . 

Copyright 1998  Ariel Publishing Group Ltd.                              . 







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: CTIA Daily News 
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 10:07:23 -0700 (PDT)
To: CTIA Daily News 
Subject: CTIA Daily News from WOW-COM - June 30, 1998
Message-ID: <199806301704.MAA30266@revnet4.revnet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



=============================================
Welcome to today's edition of the CTIA Daily News
from WOW-COM.  Please click on the icon / attachment
for the most important news in wireless communications today.
=============================================


From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 11:52:45 -0700 (PDT)
To: senator@torricelli.senate.gov
Subject: Settlement help, please
Message-ID: <359932F0.2232@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Senators

Please help get this mess settled.

Thanks
bill


Tuesday  6/30/98 12:03 PM

Mr. Thomas J. Schlageter, Assistant  Legal Counsel
Advice and External Litigation Division
Office of Legal Counsel
1801 L. Street, Northwest, Room 6034
Washington, D.C. 20507

Dear Mr. Schlageter: 

Purposes of this letter are to

1  seek administrative remedy of a release of false and defaming information on myself  which violated Privacy 
Act.   Charles Burtner and Larry Trujillo of the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission's (EEOC)  
Phoenix District Office unlawfully released the information.

2  Exhaust administrative remedies if we are not able to settle this matter.

3  Request information under the Freedom of Information and Privacy Acts.

On June 29 I received at letter from

Aletha L. Brown 
Inspector General
U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission
POB 18858
Washington, D.C. 20036-8858
202-663-4375
800-849-4230

dated June 25, 1998, OIG Control Number 981770 which said

  This is to acknowledge receipt for your letter dated May 15, 1998, requesting Freedom of Information Act     
  (FOIA) and Privacy Act information.  I apologize for the delay in responding to your request.

  Your complaint regarding alleged Privacy Act violation and FOIA request was forwarded to the Office of
  Legal Counsel on May 27, 1998.  With regards to these matters, please contact:

	Mr. Thomas J. Schlageter, Assistant
	   Legal Counsel
	Advice and External Litigation Division
	Office of Legal Counsel
	1801 L. Street, Northwest, Room 6034
  	Washington, D,C, 20507

  Mr. Payne, the OIG plans no investigative action regarding this matter.  Thank you for contacting
  this office.

  Sincerely
 
  [signature]

  Aletha L. Brown
  Inspector General

  Attachment

Attachment reads

  U.S. EQUAL EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITY COMMISSION
		 Washington, D.C 20507

         		      May 27, 1998

  MEMORANDUM

  TO:   Mr. Thomas J. Schlageter, Assistant Legal Counsel
           Advice and External Litigation Division
	
               [signature]
  FROM  Joyce T. Willoughby, Counsel
               Office of the Inspector General

  SUBJECT:  Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) Request of William Payne

  Attached is a Freedom of Information (FOIA) request from William Payne, which
  was received by the Office of the Inspector General (OIG) on May 20, 1998.  In an
  effort to respond to this request, attached are copies of the OIG case file concerning Mr. Payne, 
  the Inspector General Act of 1978, as amended, and excerpts from the OIG Investigative Manual
  and Deskbook.

  If you have any question concerning this memorandum or need additional information you may
  contact me at Extension 4397.

  Attachments

While I hope we are able to settle the civil aspects of this unfortunate release of false and
defaming information on me, I must anticipate, however, that I will have to seek judicial
review.

Therefore, under 5 USC 552, the Freedom of Information Act, and 5 USC 552a, the Privacy Act, I request 
access to copies

1  All documents describing YOUR efforts to properly investigate and settle this unlawful release of false and 
defaming information about me.

2  All WRITTEN documents, including phone call message notes or another notes, containing the name of 
William Payne, Bill Payne, etc. made between 3/18/98 and 6/30/98 by your or your staff.

If all or any part of this request is denied, please cite the specific exemption(s) which you think justifies your 
refusal to release the information and inform me of your agency's administrative appeal procedures available to 
me under the law.

I would appreciate your handling this request as quickly as possible, and I look forward to hearing from you 
within 20 working days, as the law stipulates.

This letter resembles one I sent to Ms. Varygas of your office on 6/29.  I append the Varyas letter to
this letter for your information.

Mr. Schlageter,  I hope this unfortunate matter can be resolved at the administrative
level at EEOC.  And I ask your help.

Sincerely,



William H. Payne
13015 Calle de Sandias NE
Albuquerque, NM 87111
505 292 7037 <- I am not reading e-mail

Distribution
Tom Spellman
Aletha L. Brown 
Senate Judiciary Committee http://www.senate.gov/committee/judiciary.html

Republicans

Orrin G. Hatch, Utah, Chairman   senator_hatch@Hatch.senate.gov
Strom Thurmond, South Carolina   senator@thurmond.senate.gov
Charles E. Grassley, Iowa   chuck_grassley@grassley.senate.gov
Arlen Specter, Pennsylvania   senator_specter@specter.senate.gov
Fred Thompson, Tennessee   senator_thompson@thompson.senate.gov
Jon Kyl, Arizona   info@kyl.senate.gov
Mike DeWine, Ohio   senator_dewine@dewine.senate.gov
John Ashcroft, Missouri   john_ashcroft@ashcroft.senate.gov
Spencer Abraham, Michigan   michigan@abraham.senate.gov
Jeff Sessions, Alabama

Democrats

Patrick J. Leahy, Vermont   senator_leahy@leahy.senate.gov
Edward M. Kennedy, Massachusetts   senator@kennedy.senate.gov
Joseph R.Biden, Jr., Delaware   senator@biden.senate.gov
Herb Kohl, Wisconsin   senator_kohl@kohl.senate.gov
Dianne Feinstein, California   senator@feinstein.senate.gov
Russell D. Feingold, Wisconsin   russell_feingold@feingold.senate.gov
Richard Durbin, Illinois   dick@durbin.senate.gov
Robert Torricelli, New Jersey   senator@torricelli.senate.gov

/\/\/\
append
-----
Monday 6/29/98 11:59 AM

Ms. Ellen J. Varygas, Legal Counsel
Office of Legal Counsel
1801 L. Street, Northwest, Room 6002
Washington, DC 20507
(202) 663-4637

Dear Ms. Varygas:

Purposes of this letter are to

1  seek administrative remedy of a release of false and defaming information on myself  which violated Privacy 
Act.   Charles Burtner and Larry Trujillo of the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission's (EEOC)  
Phoenix District Office unlawfully released the information.

2  Exhaust administrative remedies if we are not able to settle this matter.

3  Request information under the Freedom of Information and Privacy Acts.

Aletha L. Brown 
Inspector General
U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission
POB 18858
Washington, D.C. 20036-8858
202-663-4375
800-849-4230

wrote me on May 7 1998 

  The Office of Inspector General (OIG) is empowered to investigate matters of fraud, waste
  and abuse which may be attendant to EEOC programs and operations.  We do not have
  programmatic responsibilities and are not involved in the administration and resolution
  of Privacy Act violations.

  Based upon our review of the information provided, we have determined that this matter,
  although important, is outside of OIG's purview and therefore does not warrant any  investigative action by   
  this office.  In regards to this issue contact:

	Ms. Ellen J. Varygas, Legal Counsel
  	Office of Legal Counsel
	1801 L. Street, Northwest, Room 6002
     	Washington, DC 20507
	(202) 663-4637

  Mr. Payne, I hope this information is helpful to you but regret that I can not provide the   remedy you seek.  

  Thank you for contacting the Office of the Inspector General.

  Sincerely,

  Aletha L. Brown
  Inspector General

June 16, 1998 A Jacy Thurmond, Jr, Assistant Legal Counsel/FOIA sent me some information
I requested on possible administrative remedy of the matter under a  FOIA/PA request.  My request was 
mailed Friday 5/15/98.

While I hope we are able to settle the civil aspects of this unfortunate release of false and
defaming information on me, I must anticipate, however, that I will have to seek judicial
review.

Therefore, under 5 USC 552, the Freedom of Information Act, and 5 USC 552a, the Privacy Act, I request 
access to copies

1  All documents describing YOUR efforts to properly investigate and settle this unlawful release of false and 
defaming information about me.

2  All WRITTEN documents, including phone call message notes or another notes, containing the name of 
William Payne, Bill Payne, etc. made between 3/18/98 and 6/29/98 by your or your staff.


If all or any part of this request is denied, please cite the specific exemption(s) which you think justifies your 
refusal to release the information and inform me of your agency's administrative appeal procedures available to 
me under the law.

I would appreciate your handling this request as quickly as possible, and I look forward to hearing from you 
within 20 working days, as the law stipulates.

Details of the release of information can be found on Internet starting most recently with

      Payne v. NSA: US on Classified NSA Declaration    June 27, 1998
      Payne v. NSA: US Motion on FOIA for NSA Algos     June 27, 1998

at http://www.jya.com/usa062698.htm

Ms Varygas,  I hope this unfortunate matter can be resolved at the administrative
level at EEOC.  And I ask your help.

Sincerely,



William H. Payne
13015 Calle de Sandias NE
Albuquerque, NM 87111
505 292 7037 <- I am not reading e-mail

Distribution
Tom Spellman
Aletha L. Brown 
Senate Judiciary Committee http://www.senate.gov/committee/judiciary.html

Republicans

Orrin G. Hatch, Utah, Chairman   senator_hatch@Hatch.senate.gov
Strom Thurmond, South Carolina   senator@thurmond.senate.gov
Charles E. Grassley, Iowa   chuck_grassley@grassley.senate.gov
Arlen Specter, Pennsylvania   senator_specter@specter.senate.gov
Fred Thompson, Tennessee   senator_thompson@thompson.senate.gov
Jon Kyl, Arizona   info@kyl.senate.gov
Mike DeWine, Ohio   senator_dewine@dewine.senate.gov
John Ashcroft, Missouri   john_ashcroft@ashcroft.senate.gov
Spencer Abraham, Michigan   michigan@abraham.senate.gov
Jeff Sessions, Alabama

Democrats

Patrick J. Leahy, Vermont   senator_leahy@leahy.senate.gov
Edward M. Kennedy, Massachusetts   senator@kennedy.senate.gov
Joseph R.Biden, Jr., Delaware   senator@biden.senate.gov
Herb Kohl, Wisconsin   senator_kohl@kohl.senate.gov
Dianne Feinstein, California   senator@feinstein.senate.gov
Russell D. Feingold, Wisconsin   russell_feingold@feingold.senate.gov
Richard Durbin, Illinois   dick@durbin.senate.gov
Robert Torricelli, New Jersey   senator@torricelli.senate.gov




6






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 11:59:47 -0700 (PDT)
To: jy@jya.com
Subject: NSA and crypto algorithms
Message-ID: <359934DE.1B4@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


It is EASY to make mistakes when designing crypto algorithms.

SECRECY works against NSA in that their work doesn't get 
proper evaluation by HOSTILE referees.  Like
http://www.jya.com/skipjack-bs2.htm

NSA does have good experiences at fielding crypto devices.

My suprise at gaining access to NSA crypto algorithms was how
simple they were.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Alan Gamble 
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 12:46:36 -0700 (PDT)
To: webmaster@suppliersonline.com
Subject: Metal Suppliers Online Newsletter
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980630144255.009e7180@mail.alloytech.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


June 30, 1998

Metal Suppliers Online (MSO) Summer Newsletter

Hello from rainy New Hampshire! Its been a great year here at MSO and I
wanted to get this newsletter out  to remind you about Metal Suppliers
Online (www.suppliersonline.com) and bring you up to date with site
improvements. We now have over 12,000 worldwide users (!) .

RECENT IMPROVEMENTS INCLUDE:

Metal Supplier Data - We continue to grow, with the searchable inventory of
2700 Worldwide Distributors, Producing Mills and Forging Shops.

Material Property Data - We now property data  on 17,000 ferrous &
non-ferrous materials.


UP-COMING IMPROVEMENTS INCLUDE:

Specification Cross Reference Utilities - Cross reference any ASTM, ASME,
AMS, QQ, MIL and selected company specifications.

Physical Property Data - CTE, Densities, Conductivity, Resistivity & more.

Specification Cross Reference Utilities - Cross reference any ASTM, ASME,
AMS, QQ, MIL and selected company specifications.


If you haven't been to the site in a while, I invite you to give us a
visit. I think that you'll be impressed by the way that we've grown.

If you have any recommendations on how to improve our site, please don't
hesitate to Email them to me.

Thanks for your time.

Best Regards,

Alan 
Alan C. Gamble
Webmaster                   
Metal Suppliers Online

http://www.suppliersonline.com

603-890-6500 - phone
603.890.6222 - fax

"We don't stop playing because we get old, we get old because we stop playing"





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 14:46:45 -0700 (PDT)
To: alicezim@metriguard.com
Subject: Judge Campos letter
Message-ID: <35995BF1.156C@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Tuesday 6/30/98 3:20 PM

John Young

Nice to talk to you.

I see

 Payne v. NSA: Response to Motion to Remand FOIA   June 30, 1998

at http://www.jya.com/whp063098.htm

I opened judge Campos' letter at the fax.  I handed it to the nice
lady.

I wrote your fax number on the envelope.

Then went to Page One Two to look at used VW repair manuals.

Page One Two specializes in used books and CDs.

I am REALLY CURIOUS about what Campos wrote.  Especially on a
Tuesday.  But not curious enough to read the letter now.

Lawyers always plan to have their hate letters arrive on a weekend
or, just before a vacation.  Christmas is a lawyer favorite.

I ordered a engine rebuild gasket set, rod and main bearings, engine
mounts, rings, valve guides and springs, and SPLURGED by ordering an
exhuast header this afternoon.

My '82 rabbit is about guaranteed to fail emissions test this fall.

I ordered today from J C Whitney because the price for the $99.95
header goes up $10 tomorrow.  Perhaps headers will even FURTHER
improve its exciting 20 second 0-60 performance?

I will do the rebuilt in the fall.  

I phoned a member of Albuquerque's underground economy last night.
He will do the labor on the head for $60.  Cash, of course.

I must now ABSOLUTE CERTAINLY complete the digital FX IMMEDIATELY.  
To make some money.

Litigation is more of a long term financial project.  Like Morales and I
have been working on this project for SIX YEARS.

Hopefully this mess will be settled so that I can devote time to another
of my specialties.  Rebuilding Big Block Ford and VW water cooled
engines.  And writing MORE books too.  

Perhaps even write a law book. On pro se litigation.  With Morales, of
course.  But this can be a point for settlement negotiation, of course.  

Later
bill

http://www.apcatalog.com/cgi-bin/AP?ISBN=0125475705&LOCATION=US&FORM=FORM2






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nodebt@mail-info.com
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 18:18:41 -0700 (PDT)
To: nodebt@mail-info.com
Subject: A *Gold-Mine*--Right Under Your Nose?!!
Message-ID: <<>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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Ref # 109
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Richard Threadgill 
Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 14:02:09 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks-announce@toad.com
Subject: subscribe richardt@midgard.net
Message-ID: <29466.896821142@yggdrasil.midgard.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: rescue9111@hotmail.com
Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 04:29:59 -0700 (PDT)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: 10-03
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain








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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Dennis 
Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 09:03:50 -0700 (PDT)
To: Richard Threadgill 
Subject: Re: subscribe richardt@midgard.net
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199806031452.HAA08039@canopus.starshine.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




 Hey Richard,

 I think you may have sent this the wrong way.  You may want to 
 resend it.

 Here's a summary of the headers as I recieved them:


 From: Richard Threadgill 
 Subject: subscribe richardt@midgard.net
 To: cypherpunks-announce@toad.com
 Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 13:59:02 -0700
 Message-Id: <29466.896821142@yggdrasil.midgard.net>


--
Jim Dennis  (800) 938-4078		consulting@starshine.org
Proprietor, Starshine Technical Services:  http://www.starshine.org




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Hugh Daniel 
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 02:48:05 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks-announce@toad.com
Subject: CYPHERPUNKS INVADE BERKELEY!  June 98 Physical Meeting Announcement
Message-ID: <199806100948.CAA04922@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



June's meeting will be at Soda Hall in Berkeley, near Hearst&LeRoy.

There's a map at http://www.berkeley.edu/campus_map/maps/ABCD345.html

Ian has reserved the 4th floor lounge and the adjacent patio in Soda
Hall on 
the UC Berkeley campus for the June 13 meeting.  There's power,
whiteboard,
and Metricom coverage in the room.  If there are computer demos
needed, we 
can go down the hall to my office.

The biggest problem will be parking; Ian is having the staff here look
in to 
that, but he may need to know _in advance_ who's going to need parking

permits.  Otherwise, you'll have to pop out every so often to feed the
meter.




				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: hjfdujf@juno.com
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 20:17:41 -0700 (PDT)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: A Unique Email Advertisement
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: mvhs5 
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 12:18:07 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: stroke the toad.
Message-ID: <35B44855.760@comnett.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



pitch a tent




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Burnes 
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 08:34:32 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: saving the world from a cancerous monopoly (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199806302318.SAA15079@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <3599832A.4D0E49E3@ssds.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate wrote:
> 
> 
mjg says:
> 
> > Yes, I've thought of that too. That is the place to start, but I think
> > the federal government is too strong -- eventually the states will hit a
> > stand-off and the succession issue arises again. Feds won't go down
> > without a fight.
> 
> That's actualy an easy one. All it would take is a govenor to declare that
> citizens of his state are not going to submit to annual taxation. I
> guarantee that things will move quickly. Since the National Guard requires
> the ok of the govenor for the feds to invoke that is pretty much a moot
> point. It's clearly unconstitutional to involve the Army, especialy if it is
> made clear the National Guard will be there at the border to stop them. As
> to the FBI and such, have the Sherrif in each county and he state police
> proceed to arrest any such persons who attempt to invoke their federal
> authority.
> 

Since the National Guard is an extension of the Army and was created
through the federal authority of raising armies it is not 
necessary for the Governor of any state to be consulted before it
is given its orders.  So says the Supreme Court several years ago.

The all happened when Dukakis challenged George Bush's power to
mobilize his National Guard during the Persian Gulf war.
(operation Just 'Cuz).  Dukakis was pissed (thinking he lived
in the old US) and challenged the whole thing.  He lost.
He mistook the state militia for the National Guard.

As far as the unconstitutionality of the Army doing anything,
thats history -- all they have to do is invoke the Drug laws
and the constitution is null and void.  In any case, the National
Guard is the Army (for all practical purposes).

As far as arresting federal authorities goes, there aren't
enough sherrifs lying around to stop even FBI agents, much less
the National Guard. (state police included)

Where were the sheriffs when the BATF broke assuaulted
the Branch Davidian church?  The answer is: helping them...



> 
> Speaking of brain-washed....
> 
> They didn't fear democracy, they feared an authoritarian central government
> without the states exercising their authority to stop it via the 10th. They
> felt that democracy was the only way to deal with this sort of excess.
> 
>In short, they celebrated democracy.

Actually they feared an excess of both.  Tryanny of the king and
tyranny of the masses -- mobocracy.  That is why the Senators
were appointed by the states and not elected by the people.  It
was an effort to allow states to control their interests instead
of everthing being determined by congress.  This is known as
a balance of power.

jim




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Reeza! 
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 10:40:31 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Rats in the Walls
In-Reply-To: <199807021721.TAA23458@basement.replay.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980703155145.008b4820@205.83.192.13>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 07:21 PM 02 07 98 +0200, Anonymous wrote:
>"Reeza!"  wrote:
>
>> At 04:41 PM 02 07 98 +0200, Anonymous wrote:
>> >and there are indeed safe havens elsewhere,
>> >
>> >"Educate, don't Agitate"
>> >
>>
>> Tell me more,,,
>
>You and who's army?
>

What army? 
I'm in the navy, and I'm getting sick of it.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Rabid Wombat 
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 09:32:44 +0800
To: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Subject: Re: web site on 18 yr olds losing virginity
In-Reply-To: <199807120303.UAA02103@netcom18.netcom.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Either "stopthis1" is a clever marketer drumming up interest in this 
site, or the christian coalition has become inbred to the point of 
unbelievable stupidty. Any bets?

On Sat, 11 Jul 1998, Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote:

> hmmmmmmm, just to show you the possibilities of cyberspace and
> what it's coming to
> 
> 
> From: stopthis1@juno.com
> Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 02:25:08
> Subject: 2 kids to lose "virginity" LIVE on the Internet
> 
> Please join me in shutting this website down.  
>  
> http://www.ourfirsttime.com 
>  
> I caught my grandson and his friends giggling over this website 
> where it says two 18 year old kids are going to lose their 
> virginity - LIVE on the Internet. 
>  
> Just because these two idiot kids saw a woman give birth LIVE on 
> the Internet, they have decided that anything goes and will have 
> sex for the first time on the Internet. What has the world come to 
> when people can do absolutely any lewd and deviant thing they want 
> to, and let innocent children watch on their computers. 
>  
> They are mocking the sanctity of marriage. What concerns me the 
> most is there are no controls on this website to keep children 
> out.  Please send a protest email to your congressman or senator, 
> and ask them to "SHUT THIS OBSCENE WEBSITE DOWN" !!! 
>  
> Click here to go to the Christian Coalition's page of email 
> address for all Congressmen and Senators. Find your representative 
> and demand their help to stop the Internet from being prostituted 
> by brain damaged sex maniacs. 
>  
>          http://www.christian-coalition.org/ 
> Email Guide to Congress from the Christian Coalition 
>  
> Also send emails to the following individuals asking for their 
> help to shut this site down - 
>  
> President Clinton   -   president@whitehouse.gov 
>  
> Jesse Helms   -   jesse_helms@helms.senate.gov 
>  
> Newt Gingrich   -   georgia6@hr.house.gov 
> 
> Jerry Falwell   -   chancellor@liberty.edu 
>  
> Pat Robertson   -   cbnonline@cbn.org 
>  
> Christian Coalition   -   coalition@cc.org 
>  
> Praise the Lord and pass this on to all.  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
> 
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: success26@apexmail.com
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 17:20:33 +0800
Subject: Need Large Income Fast??
Message-ID: <46788335@merits494.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Dear Prospective Entrepreneur;

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joined a company which is only 3 years old, and is 
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to product (mostly companies that failed, or had falsely
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is truly "CREDIBLE," has tremendous products, a great
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Since the products actually sell themselves, I'm NOT
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Thanks, 
Clyde Fontenot


This message is brought to you from Clyde Fontenot, 
Attorney, 504 W. Main St., Ville Platte,LA.70586,
318-363-5535.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Alan Olsen 
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 01:33:59 +0800
To: "Robert A. Costner" 
Subject: Re: [FP] NHTSA - Digital Image Photo Licenses
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980726120135.03892610@rboc.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980726102743.04234220@clueserver.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 12:01 PM 7/26/98 -0400, Robert A. Costner wrote:
>
>The following is taken from today's SCAN newsletter.
>
>======================================================================
>SCAN THIS NEWS
>7/26/98
>
>Following is a brief excerpt from the -
>
>"U.S. Department of Transportation"
>"National Highway Traffic Safety Administration"
>
>"The Highway Safety Desk Book"
>
>regarding digitized driver's license photos.

[snip]

>The implications for law enforcement go far beyond these obvious benefits.
>With a central image database of every driver in a state, the public safety
>community has a ready-made storehouse of photos to be used in criminal
>investigations.....

Oregon already has this.  (We seem to be an official beta test site for
every draconian measure or propaganda campaign they want to implement on a
national scale.)

The digital licensing program hear was VERY expensive and full of cost
over-runs.  If your state legislature tells you it can be done inexpensivly
or is a "cost cutting measure" they are lying their asses off.
---
|              "That'll make it hot for them!" - Guy Grand               |
|"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmermann unites all| Disclaimer:         |
| mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!"  | Ignore the man      |
|`finger -l alano@teleport.com` for PGP 2.6.2 key  | behind the keyboard.|
|         http://www.ctrl-alt-del.com/~alan/       |alan@ctrl-alt-del.com|




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Rabid Wombat 
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 07:29:25 +0800
To: Anonymous 
Subject: Re: Paul Merrill, his eyes uncovered! (or so he claims)
In-Reply-To: <199808022219.AAA09511@replay.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Or you could get back on your medication.


On Mon, 3 Aug 1998, Anonymous wrote:

> On Sun, 2 Aug 1998, Paul H. Merrill wrote:
> 
> > Never has a single missive opened my eyes so thououghly.
> > 
> > First, I had always thought that libertarians were somewhat equivalent
> > to my personal philosophy of Rational Anarchism.  Thanks to your pearly
> > prose I now know that libertarians are not rational.  I attribute my
> > failure to notice this in the past to the plethora of
> > pseudo-libertarians (like Tim May) that have a brain and can say
> > something beyond "What I want is right and you are wrong".
> > 
> > Second, I now recognize fully the signs of masked inferiority.  Any
> > attempt to allow the unwashed masses access to computer technology is
> > met with contempt and belittlement.  Personally, I do not fear what
> > others may be able to accomplish if they have a tool that they have the
> > ability to use.
> 
> Despite your mentality, I resist the urge to hope that you should learn
> from practical experience what is apparently eluding you. That would
> probably take the general form of you being in an automobile accident and
> getting killed because the idiot who stops to "help" you attempts to do
> CPR the Hollywood way and tells somebody who actually knows what they're
> doing that he can handle it. 
> 
> Because I expect people to have basic knowledge above and beyond clicking
> a mouse, pushing buttons on a television remote, mixing vinegar and baking
> soda, and learning CPR by watching Baywatch, I'm suffering from "masked
> inferiority."
> 
> Thank you for opening my eyes, Paul. I will now flush years of higher
> education down the drain and become like the "common man" so I'm not
> accused of exhibiting signs of "masked inferiority." When I'm trying to
> wash mold off my house and make a "jiffy mold remover" by mixing ammonia,
> chlorine bleach, and a plethora of other things, thereby releasing toxic
> gasses and quite possibly causing the barrel it was in to explode throwing
> shrapnel all over the block, I'll claim ignorance. 
> 
> Or maybe somebody can practice medicine by asking for "fifteen cc's
> anaprovaline" in emergencies because they heard it on Star Trek. 
> 
> Or maybe I could use large quantities of butyric acid to scare dogs away
> from my home. When the neighbors complain, I can claim ignorance. Of
> course, the area might be uninhabitable for a while. Phew!
> 
> After all, ignorance is what is prized in this society. The techies are
> just somebody to pay when you need them, and make fun of and assault the
> rest of the time.
> 
> > Third, reality has never seemed to be a strong-point with libertarians,
> > but now I see that the disregard for reality an asset in your book. 
> > Because the reality is that most of those poor folk out there can't use
> > UNIX.  Not won't, can't.  Their phobia does not allow it, just as your
> > phobia does not allow you to consider any possible way that they might
> > gain even a fraction of the power of the Information Age that you
> > already have.
> 
> So these people now are "victims" of a "phobia" which prevents them from
> reading documentation and bothering to educate themselves. If you don't
> want to claim ignorance, claim that you're a victim; it always works these
> days.
> 
> They can gain all the power they want. It's when they walk in with an
> assault rifle in each hand and start spraying the room randomly with
> cluelessness-inducing ammo that people get mad.
> 
> If in doubt, claim you are a victim of this widespread epidemic known as
> "phobia of clue."
> 
> > Fourth, while I am a whore and will run or build any system that someone
> > is willing to pay me to, I do have my limits.  I know longer accept
> > contracts or employment related to the military and intelligence
> > communities.  Neither, do I sell my body.  I leave that to the wannabe
> > geeks like yourself.
> 
> I think you're suffering from denial, Paul, and that you're lashing out at
> anybody who could be a threat to your business because of masked
> inferiority.
> 
> > 
> > Again, Thank you for opening my eyes.
> 
> No problem. Don't mention it.
> 
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: shizheng 
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 15:59:08 +0800
To: "cypherpunks@toad.com>
Subject: what?
Message-ID: <199808150748.PAA10057@public-px.online.sh.cn>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: james pack 
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 10:18:50 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: persones who are cool
Message-ID: <35AE8C4A.CEE@foxinternet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



i know  lets trade j_d@foxinternet




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC 
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 00:58:35 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: http://bureau42.ml.org
Message-ID: <009C8814.0F703E40.5@west.cscwc.pima.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I have been getting a lot of requests from people who want to
know how to get more of the manuscripts of the 'True Story of
the InterNet' series which is sometimes spammed to the CypherPunks
Disturbed Male LISP through my account by some inconsiderate psycho
who has no respect for Bob, who asks only that he be given 'space'
NOT 'SPACE ALIENS' you
stupid fucks!!!
try http://bureau42.ml.org

Please quit bothering me (except for Attila-I like my sex 'rough',
whereas the Author seems toli
like hisorher sex 'ruff, ruff').

Linda Lou Reed
"If you meet the Author on the road, KILL HIM!!!"





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC 
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 04:04:35 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Anarchy Is Our Only Hope... - SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS!!!
Message-ID: <009C882E.0B003B20.1@west.cscwc.pima.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


~NOTE: If this article is digitally signed, then it is not
       guaranteed by the Electronic Forgery Foundation to
       be Genuine FUD.
       The Electronic Forgery Foundation, as a matter of 
       policy, accepts no responsibility for digitally 
       signed manuscripts which may actually be MainStream
       News Articles containing factually accurate and
       officially verifiable lies.

                   Bienfait Nutly News
                "ANARCH IS OUR ONL HOPE"
                    Christmas Special
                    *****************
                    by King Author and the Dark&Stormy
                    Knights of the Magic RoundTable

[College Station Nudist Colony]IT WAS A STARK NAKED AND COLLEGE
dormy night...

[Prudential Annex, Alcatraz]JIM BELL STRUGGLED TO HOLD BACK THE
small bead of sweat that was beginning to form on his brow as
he feigned indifference while the Warden reviewed his application
to form a prison swim team...

[Oklahoma City]amADbOMBERtObEnAMEDlATER CREPT UNDER THE FENCE
surrounding the former site of the Murrah Federal Building. As
he placed the explosive charges at strategic points among the
rubble, he couldn't shake the feeling that government spin-
doctors were already preparing to issue a statement clarifying
that BATF agents were absent from the site at the time of the
explosion as a result of having moved to new offices, while 
the innocent children, air-lifted to the sight shortly before
the tragic act of terrorism, were part of an educational tour
that had been scheduled months previously.
He shook off his fears, reminding himself that Louis Freeh,
Janet Reno and Michael Fortier had planned everything down 
to the last detail...

[Austin, Texas]THE BARMAID AT THE HEB CENTRAL MARKET CAFE WAS
certain that she had seen all of those attending the alleged
Austin CypherPunks Physical Meeting in a variety of local
theatrical productions over the years.
It didn't make sense. Why would someone hire a rag-tag group
of actors to impersonate members of an anarchistic, crypto-
privacy InterNet mailing list?
And who was the strange character from the Bay Area who
occassionally attended the meetings? She remembered seeing
him at Stanford during the visit of the SexCriminal and his
MainSqueeze to convince their daughter, Chelsea, that dating
a man who was stalking her father with a Stihl chainsaw could
have negative political reprecussions, and that she didn't 
need that fucking psycho's reassurances as to her sexuality,
since daddy also thought she had a great ass, and was not just
saying that because she was his daughter.
Stanford wasn't the first time she had seen the Bay Area 
visitor to the CypherPunks meetings. She had also seen him
leaving the Texas Book Depository in Dallas, shortly after...


Anarchy is our only hope...

  Lone gunmen and unabombers are Dog's way of telling us,
as we stare at a meaningless election ballot, that we could
have had a V-8, pretending that we were drinking the blood
of a single innocent child we had slaughtered in an act of
random violence with an M-16, or in the bombing of TWA-800,
or any one of a variety of mind-numbing reminders that we,
as well as the cargo on our flight, are just numbers, that
can be erased with the stroke of a pen, or a flash of light
and a loud bang...

Anarchy is our only hope...

  Face it, the System isn't working...
  We need to Democratize murder, once again putting it in
the hands of the common people. People with wooden or stone
clubs; people with Saturday Night Specials; people with
knives in kitchen drawers, directly behind the freezer
door that their fat, lazy spouse is staring into, wondering
which gallon of ice-cream to eat first; people with access
to both the drug-cabinet and the maternity ward, who realize
that the solution to child-crime is stopping it at its very
source...
  The process of natural selection, which decrees that only
the strong AND lucky survive, has been derailed by social
and government interference that leads to genocidal policies
which mark our fellow humans for deletion on the basis of
race, religious and/or ethnic background, political beliefs,
ownership of land which has oil or mineral reserves underneath 
it, use and development of strong crypto, ad infinitum...

  It used to be that those with strong survival instincts,
finding themselves short of funds, could beat up and/or
murder a Jew, pulling out their gold fillings in order to
make it to their next paycheck.
  Once government got involved, the average Joe and Jane
couldn't hope to compete with the streamlined merger of
thousands of ignorant thugs into a single giant bully.
  It was a step backward for the JesusKillers, as well,
since they had a fighting chance against the more ignorant
members of the light-skinned races, who didn't realize
that it didn't really help for them to hide in dark alleys,
as well as members of the dark-skinned races who couldn't
resist smiling in the dark when a potential victim approached.
  Once ethnic discrimination was declared to be a function
of government, there was no need for Official Thieves Thugs
And Murderers to hide in dark alleys, since they could herd
their victims into railway cattle-cars by use of official
government brochures promoting Auschwitz as a Health Spa
with state of the art shower systems guaranteeing not only
hygenic cleansing, but also eugenic cleansing. Those who
enquired as to the meaning of 'eugenic cleansing' were
told that it would become clear upon their arrival...

Anarchy is our only hope...

  A passage in a work by one of the true literary genius'
of the InterNet (whose name I can't remember, but the work
was titled, "InfoWar") pointed out a period during which
violent crime was rapidly decreasing at the same time that
public perception of the rate of violent crime was reaching 
an all-time high.
  A parallel poll, commissioned by the People Against
Humanity division of the Synics Cociety, revealed that not
a single person taking part in the other poll believed
themself to be an ignorant, societally programmed moron,
incapable of anything beyond sucking up whatever slop
MainDream News Farces chose to throw into the public
media troughs for consumption by those who believe that
the High Cost Of Rational Thought is an unbearable burden
that will leave them too poor to add the 24-Hour Drooling
And Slobbering Channel to their cable package.
  
  Anthropologists specializing in the rise of civilized
society have discovered that a solitary recluse living
alone in the wild, will, upon drooling and slobbering on
HimOrHerSelf, instinctively realize that, if they continue
to do so, then the chance of their ever developing the
ability to walk upright becomes radically diminished.
  At the same time, modern research indicates that if test
subjects from current society are exposed to pictures of
Michael Jordan drooling on his shoes, that manufacturers
can add a hundred dollars to the price of their sneakers
by adding artificial saliva-stains to them.

Anarchy is our only hope...

*************************************************************
        WE ARE INTERRUPTING THIS PREVIOUSL SCHEDULED
        BROADCAST TO BEING OU AN IMPORTANT NEWS FLASH
        
        The Author, undoubtedly affected by solar flaring
        reflecting off of the early evening moon, suddenly
        realized why Leslie Stahl seemed so nervous during
        last night's '60 Minutes' piece on InterNet FUD,
        titled, 'The Rumor Mill.'
        It was not, as he originally suspected, Ms. Stahl
        psychically picking up on his efforts to peek up
        her skirt, and was, in fact, not the Scent of a 
        Woman, but the Scent of Fear...
        
        Fear that Jane and Joe Sheeple, empowered by InterNet
        Search Engines capable of catering to their true 
        desires, instead of attempting to mold their desires
        to fit the hidden agendas of Stahl's CBS controllers,
        might actually choose to access J. Orlin Grabbe's
        'World's 50 Greatest Conspiracies' website, and
        compare his 'information' with the 'information'
        provided by '60 Minutes'.
        
        Fear that a generation of people who had grown up
        believing Walter Cronkite when he ended his news
        casts with "That's the way it is...", would suddenly
        begin wondering why Wally never told them that Jack
        Kennedy, their beloved President, was screwing the
        living shit out of Marilyn Monroe, ending his news
        cast by making a circle with the forefinger and
        thumb of his left hand, poking his right index
        finger back and forth through the circle, and
        saying, "That's the way it is..."

        Fear that Marilyn Manson, whining on Public Radio
        about 'The Rumor Mill' on the InterNet spreading
        'lies' and 'disinformation' about HisOrHer tour,
        would be recognized by those paying attention as
        being strikingly similar to Ms. Stahl's whining
        on '60 Minutes' about the 'lies' and 'disinformation'
        being spread by people who had different beliefs
        about Reality and Truth than those that she held.
        
        Fear that vague hints about "Junk," "Regulation"
        and "Online Policemen" were not strong enough to
        truly get her point across, while indulging in
        violent screaming calling for hanging J. Orlin
        Grabbe by his hairy balls for disagreeing with
        her WorldView would only confirm viewer suspicions
        that she was in the same league, although on a
        different team, as Marilyn Manson, who believed
        that some kind of "censorship" was needed, to
        prevent the ChoirBoys at Ms. Stahl's church from
        spreading Christian Right lies about HisOrHer
        tour on the InterNet, while waiting their turn
        to insert their young, hard, throbbing cocks
        into a member of the congregation who was a
        regular correspondent on a major television news
        magazine show.

        Fear that the Author, currently working on the
        development of a forged Leslie Stahl's HomePage,
        had a 50-50 chance of correctly guessing whether
        or not she was wearing panties...
**************************************************************
        WE NOW RETURN OU TO THE REGULARL SCHEDULED BROADCAST
**************************************************************
                NO WE DONT...
**************************************************************

  Someone drinking Dirty Mothers wrote the stuff above, last
night. Maybe it was me...maybe it wasn't...I woke up with a
headache.

  Regardless, reading today's posts to the CypherPunks list,
it soon became apparent that my clever ruse, pretending to
be intellectually superior to the other list members, worked!
  The real purpose of my egoistical diatribe was to ferret out
the list members not truly deserving of being on the same list
as the rest of us, who are using 11% of our potential brainpower.
  I knew that the Pretenders to our elitist level of being, being
insecure, insecure enough to avoid repeating repeating their
words, would accuse *me* of being insecure.

  Sure enough, the Pretender was exposed, and now we *all* know
that the Pretender on the list, whom we are all superior to, 
is...
  Nobody!

  In retrospect, we were fools not to realize it long ago. All 
of the signs were there...
  The self-effaceing alias, 'Nobody'.  
  The inability to reflect a CypherPunks Consistent Net Persona.
  Always posting from different accounts: Juno, Replay, 
  HugeCajones, CypherPunks, Dev.Null...
  The propensity for taking wildly varying stances on the same
  issue. 
  Overcompensating for HisOrHer lack of self-worth by always
  demanding credit for HisOrHer posts, and never posting 
  Anonymously...

  I was surprised that the rest of the list members never 
figured it out.
  I guess I'm smarter than the rest of you...

**************************************************************
        OK, *NOW* WE RETURN OU TO THE REGULARL SCHEDULED
        BROADCAST--*REALL*-I *MEAN* IT THIS TIME!!!
**************************************************************
        ACTUALL, I FORGOT WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT, SO
        I THINK I'LL JUST TR TO EXPLAIN A CONCEPT I WAS
        THINKING ABOUT ESTERDA, BUT NEGLECTED TO ADDRESS:
                ANARCH IS OUR ONL HOPE...
**************************************************************

  Uhhh...
  I hate to appear to be a fucking idiot, incapable of
sustaining a logical train of thought, but I just reached
the PointOfEnlightenment that comes around 4 a.m., when
one is out of beer and beginning to sober up, and looks
at the orange sitting on their desk and sees...an orange!
  Not the cosmically meaningful macrocosm/microcosm orange
that seems to hold the key to the secrets of the universe
when one is high on acid. Not the orange with a bit of
green-stuff starting to show on its surface when you look
at it at the end of another long, hard day at the Salt
Mine, whereupon you chastise yourself for letting it go
bad before eating it, because your tired, acheing bones
remind you that you are living in a cold, hard world.
  No, it is the orange that both the pragmatist and the
mystic see at 4 a.m., about an hour after the last beer
is gone, and the liquor store doesn't open for another
few hours. The *real* orange...

  Anyway, 'Anarchy Is Our Only Hope...' is one of those
Deep Truths (TM) that are important to attempt to explain
to the unenlightened, who quit doing acid in '72, and now
have regular jobs.
  But, Fuck It (TM)!
  SPACE ALIENS HIDE M DRUGS!!! was always intended to be
my autobiography, but somebody else started it (although
I'm not complaining, because the FUD generated helped to
cover my ass on the original TruthMonger SoftTarget Tour)
and I think I have the right to be a little self-indulgent
(like it's the first time...right!) and put off finishing
the Bienfait Nutly News "ANARCH IS OUR ONL HOPE!" 
Chrismas Special for a day or so.
  So I think I'll sink into one of my undermedicated, ill-
advised rants about my personal issues, history and problems
which only remotely relate to the goals and purposes behind
the creation of the CypherPunks list.

  Unless you have a lot of idle time on your hands, you might
just want to go ahead and delete the next chapter of SAHMD,
since it will undoubtedly be a semi-coherent, rambling diatribe
with little relevance to your life and/or your interests.
  On the other hand, given my present state of mind, and the
fact that I just found a warm beer in the back of my truck,
the next chapter may well turn out to be one of those classic
works of literature that can only be produced by someone who
finds themself in the Desolate Place, an hour after they have
finished the LastBeerInTheWholeWorld (like Job), and then
is reborn, resurrected, refurbished by the discovery that,
not only is there a God AND a Dog, but there is also another
beer...

  Smoke 'em if you got 'em...





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: cb0630@hotmail.com
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 18:41:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Data Processing, Translation, Software & Web Localization Services
Message-ID: <199807010644.ZZZ4950@msfc.cseeq.equr.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Dear Sir/Madam,

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PS. This e-mail will only be sent to the same account once (you may receive the same message more than once if you have more than one e-mail accounts). Please keep it for future reference. There is no need to remove your name from our database. Sorry for any inconvenience caused.
[CB980630]







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "David E. Smith" 
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 03:16:25 -0700 (PDT)
To: Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC 
Subject: Re: http://bureau42.base.org
In-Reply-To: <009C8814.0F703E40.5@west.cscwc.pima.edu>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: RIPEMD160

On Wed, 1 Jul 1998, Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC wrote:

> I have been getting a lot of requests from people who want to
> know how to get more of the manuscripts of the 'True Story of
> the InterNet' series which is sometimes spammed to the CypherPunks
> Disturbed Male LISP through my account by some inconsiderate psycho
> who has no respect for Bob, who asks only that he be given 'space'
...
> try http://bureau42.ml.org
For the love of God, please, don't.  That goes over my phone line.

Use http://bureau42.base.org/ instead.

...dave


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GNUPG v0.3.0 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: This is an alpha version!

iQEeBAEUAwAGBQI1mgotAAoJEJKCwqQDooIFjcED/R4EPP0jKh3LMJdIm1orYc308Dvl+31v
1nd1poiv+OD2jCNjcSk/CcKnG1+S2WWrMFnhdyGn9MyAzSX44N/v7eota8yNmtrld0JZG91J
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=Q8mn
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jackson Dodd 
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 10:12:10 -0700 (PDT)
To: dbworld@cs.wisc.edu
Subject: 1998 USENIX Annual Technical Conference - Call for Papers
Message-ID: <199807011714.KAA16480@usenix.ORG>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



USENIX 1999 Annual Technical Conference
June 7-11, 1999
Monterey Conference Center
Monterey, California, USA

For the full call for submissions, see 
http://www.usenix.org/events/usenix99

Papers due: 			  December 2, 1998
Author notification: 		  January 20, 1999
Camera-ready final papers due: 	  April 27, 1999
Registration materials available: March, 1999

The 1999 USENIX Technical Conference Program Committee seeks 
original and innovative papers about the applications, architecture,
implementation, and performance of modern computing systems. 
As at all USENIX conferences, papers that analyze problem areas 
and draw important conclusions from practical experience are 
especially welcome. Some particularly interesting application 
topics are:

Availability
Distributed caching and replication
Embedded systems
Extensible operating systems
File systems and storage systems
Interoperability of heterogeneous systems
Mobile code
Mobile computing
Multimedia
New algorithms and applications
Personal digital assistants
Quality of service
Reliability
Security and privacy
Ubiquitous computing and messaging
Web technologies

TUTORIALS
We are also accepting proposals for tutorials.  USENIX's well-respected 
tutorial program offers intensive, immediately practical tutorials on 
topics essential to the use, development, and administration of advanced
computing systems. Skilled instructors, who are hands-on experts in 
their topic areas, present both introductory and advanced tutorials 
covering topics such as:

System and network administration
Java and Perl topics
High availability, scalability, and reliability
Programming tools and program development
Portability and interoperability
System and network security
Client-server application design and development
Sendmail, DNS, and other networking issues
GUI technologies and builders
WWW and CGI technologies
Performance monitoring and tuning
Freely distributable software

INVITED TALKS
The Invited Talks coordinators welcome suggestions for topics and
requests proposals for particular talks. In your proposal state 
the main focus, include a brief outline, and be sure to emphasize 
why your topic is of general interest to our community. Please submit 
via email to ITusenix@usenix.org.

For the full call for submissions, see 
http://www.usenix.org/events/usenix99
====================================================================
USENIX is the Advanced Computing Systems Association. Since 1975,
USENIX has brought together the community of engineers, system
administrators, and technicians working on the cutting edge of the
computing world. For more information about USENIX:

1. URL: http://www.usenix.org
2. Email to office@usenix.org 
3. Fax: 510.548.5738 
4. Phone: 510.528.8649








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: CTIA Daily News 
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 09:53:57 -0700 (PDT)
To: CTIA Daily News 
Subject: CTIA Daily News from WOW-COM - July 1, 1998
Message-ID: <199807011650.LAA31630@mailstrom.revnet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



=============================================
Welcome to today's edition of the CTIA Daily News
from WOW-COM.  Please click on the icon / attachment
for the most important news in wireless communications today.
=============================================


From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ? the Platypus {aka David Formosa} 
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 21:36:32 -0700 (PDT)
To: bill payne 
Subject: Re: NSA and crypto algorithms
In-Reply-To: <359934DE.1B4@nmol.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On Tue, 30 Jun 1998, bill payne wrote:

> It is EASY to make mistakes when designing crypto algorithms.

[...]

> My suprise at gaining access to NSA crypto algorithms was how
> simple they were.

The second stament follows logicly from the first.  Simple algorithums are
easyer to analise for mistates.


- -- 
Please excuse my spelling as I suffer from agraphia see the url in my header. 
Never trust a country with more peaple then sheep.  ex-net.scum and proud
You Say To People "Throw Off Your Chains" And They Make New Chains For
Themselves? --Terry Pratchett.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3i
Charset: noconv

iQCVAwUBNZmuSqQK0ynCmdStAQFHowP/efP6rwDRJdjNhXvcS9rRbJW9tB10YqtP
6SCjzgCQj6W2rZSDevehIthNBn2iF0yo+rxkHA6qSYIR4y4FbyZQNSAJyCJO5i5s
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fXmFqRvpe9o=
=7en9
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED/EUREKA! 
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 09:44:44 -0700 (PDT)
To: All Eureka/Stuffed Subscribers: ;
Subject: Daily News Wed Jul 1 '98
Message-ID: <19980701142321.2253.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/html

New: STUFFED - the News & Babes Daily!

Click Here For STUFFED, The NEW Daily Tabloid
News And Babes Color Supplement From Eureka!

Click here to read it: http://stuffed.net/98/7/1/



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 14:10:18 -0700 (PDT)
To: lawya@lucs-01.novell.leeds.ac.uk
Subject: Warning to court clerk
Message-ID: <359AA4DA.CCD@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Wednesday 7/1/98 2:59 PM

John Young

I will fax the two sheets from the clerk to you later this afternoon.

Morales and I will try to meet on his way home from work
to get his signature.

http://www.jya.com/sec062998.htm
http://www.jya.com/whp063098.htm

will likely cause MUCH MORE UNPLEASANTNESS .. for clerks and judges.

Let's hope this matter is promptly settled before it gets WORSE.

Later
bill



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC 
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 16:07:22 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Statist Changes - SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS!!!
Message-ID: <009C8893.06B8B280.5@west.cscwc.pima.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Statist Change - SPACE ALIENS HIDE M DRUGS!!!
______________________________________________

 "The more you make change, the more your balance books 
 remain the same."
~  Chevy Change
   Founder - Saturday Night Live Change Manhatten Bank
  "Statist Change In The SidePocket - ou Can Bank On It."

  Delbert McClinton, a paid media informant for a shell of 
the former Time Bandits, the Nutly Noose, sent me a private
email, the contents of which which ethics and propriety 
forbid me to disclose, although it can be PartyPhrased as,
"So why the fuck do you keep sending your goddamn SPAM to
 the CypherPunks list, you illiterate, drunken asshole?!?!?"

The Real (TM) Answer #436-C.2:
  "Because I'm a CypherPunk, ShitForBrains!!!...!!!"


 "I don't care what they say about me, as long as they spell
 my name wrong."
~  Declan McCaulkin
   Former OldSpiceBoy who recently cut a solo album, "ArmGlue"

  Declan McCullagh (ever notice that I only get his name right
when I'm insulting him?), who used to be an unread, but lightly
respected journalist for the Netly News (it is better to remain
unread and thought a Tool, than to get a byline and remove all
doubt) sold the soles of his shoes to pay the piper, only to
discover that his Controllers at Time Magazine, a subsiduary
of a fidicuary corporation, Slime, Inc., wholly owned by the
MainStream Enquirer (Gyrating Minds Want To Be Snowed) had
already paid the 'fiddler', and thus got to NameThatTune, since
they were astute enough to realize that the 'original' quote
was, "Those who learn from the mistakes of the past, can
profitably repeat them."
  So now Declan, currently only a part-time employee of the
CIA/FBI/DEA/NSA (and ASecretThreeLetterOrganizationWhich-
SecretlyControlsTheWholeWorldToBeNamedLater) as a result of
being fired as a Cuspected CypherPunks Cpy, but rehired on
a consultancy basis to be a Shadow of his former self...

  Damn...lost my train of thought, again. I guess that's why
they don't pay me the BigBucks...

  Anyway, if Declan had been one of the original coconspirators
(sometimes spelled with a hyphen) in the Secret Plot Against
The CypherPunks List, instead of a JohnnyComeLately trying to
jump on the bandwagon, after believing Jim Bell when he told
Declan how great prison food is, he would be aware that a
chapter of a previous 'True Story Of The InterNet' manuscript
pointed out that a member of an elite group of dribblers
who wore green bibs with numbers on them, the CelticPunks,
Kevin McHale (if that is his *real* name...), said of a
fellow CelticPunks member, Danny Angst, "Sure, he's actually 
a slobberer, but he's *our* slobberer!"
  This quote was used to illustrate my point that the late
Dr. Dimitri Vulis, KOTM, an IgnorantInsaneInconsiderateIgnoble
Asshole, was a 'CypherPunks' IgnorantInsaneInconsiderateIgnoble
Asshole (TM). PissAnt Dale Thorn was a 'CypherPunks' PissAnt.
Cocksucker John Gilmore was a 'CypherPunks Cock Cucker' (not
to be confused with the Criminal Cocksucker of Canada). Statist
GuberMint Chill, Kent Crispin, was a 'CypherSpooks' Statist
DoubleMint Chill, and a secret member of the Circle of Eunuchs.
  The veteran elitists on the list accused me of being a
elitist neophyte who was bitter over not having received a
CecretSypherPunksDecoderRing (TM), but none of this really
has anything to do with the point I am trying to make...

"When Outlaws are outlawed, only Outlaws will be outlaws."
~ An Inlaw of Billy the Kid (aka-BadBillyG, BadBillyC, Bill
  Frantz, Bill Stewart, William Geiger III, Bill C. May, etc.)

(Anyone complaining about the foregoing not making any sense
is obviously hanging around with David Byrne because he is
rich and famous, and not because they truly love and understand
his music.)

Why I Am Spamming The CypherPunks List #A-497-2.3:
  I am the TruthMonger.
  The dedication of my life to becoming one with the MadDog-
InPossessionOfTheLastFalseSmile resulted in my being forcefully
unbriscrived from the Jack Nicholson Fan Club Mailing List,
because "THE CAN'T *HANDLE* THE TRUTH!"
  In loneliness and depravation, I decided to sribvive to the
Suicide Mailing List, but it turned out to be just a corporate-
sponsored pimple on the butt of the InterNet, created as a means
to feature the Nike 'Just Do It' logo. (Besides, there was only
one other member on Suicide Mailing List, and she only sent a
single post, a suicide note, helping me to realize that she had
really belonged on the list, while I was just a rubbernecker.
  I then subscribed to the AIDS Support List, but was kicked off
when they discovered that I didn't have AIDS, and was just there
to try and meet women.
  On advice of legal counsel, and Jerry Falwell, I will refrain 
from describing my experiences on the Christian Pre-Teen Mailing
List, since charges are still pending.
  
  Why did I subscribe to the CypherPunks Mailing List? It was    
the last one...I had been kicked off of all the others.
  I thought that this time, I might be accepted for who I
really pretend to be, since I believed that the other list
members would be delighted to know that I had 'broken PGP,'
although I couldn't provide any proof of it, at the time.
Also, I had just completed work on a totally unbreakable
encryption system, although I was hesitant to share details
with others, in fear that someone might figure out how it
worked, thus compromising the total security it provided.
  When the rest of the list suckbikers attacked me in fits of
RayCharlesRage, I realized that they, like myself, suffered
from Tourette Syndrome, and were not just pretending to,
like Andrew Dice Clay. I suddenly realized that encryption
was a science that had come about as a result of hundreds of
years of misdiagnosis of Dyslexia and Attention Deficit
Disorder (not to be confused with Federal Deficit Disorder,
which causes politicians peering into taxpayer pockets to
see a Bottomless Pit).
  I realized that these people were sick motherfuckers...
  I was home...


If ou Can't Kill The List ou Love, Kill The One ou're On:
  I have never been fond of the CypherPunks Mailing List, or
its subscribers. The list and list members are a constant
reminder that I am a mental misfit and a social outcast,
chased by the torch-bearing angry mob of decent, law-abiding
NetiZensComeLately back to the CypherPunks Cecret Castle,
cleverly disguised as a Mailing List.
  It is indeed a great irony that I, a pretentious interloper
on the list, was ultimately responsible for single-handedly
rescuing the CypherPunks list from death and oblivion.
  
  I know what you're thinking: "Drop the crack pipe, and slowly
back away from the keyboard..."
  But it's True (TM), I swear to Dog.

  I'm not claiming to be some kind of Hero, or to be Dustin
Hoffman, or anything, since it came about quite by accident.
  At the time of the Legendary CypherPunks Censorship Crisis
(not to be confused with the CypherPunks Moderation Experiment),
I did everything I could to forment dissent, cause fractious
fractal fractures between the list members, shooting and pissing
at everyone and everything in sight, even myself, suffering
several serious foot-wounds in the process.
  It was only later, when it became obvious that the CypherPunks
list was going to survive, and prosper, and that, in fact, a
beautiful Toad had been transformed, by the KissOfDeath, into
a plethora of ugly PrincesAndPrincesses, that I realized that
the CypherPunks Censorship Crisis had been an attempt to destroy
the list, by making it just another bland, everyday imitation
of PoliticallyCorrectMasturbation that would make our mothers
proud of us, as long as we didn't stain the sheets too badly.
  In retrospect I realized that I had inadvertently saved the
list from a Zombie-like future as just another sidestreet on
the Information Highway by using my posts to promote and
glorify violent anarchy against reason, common sense, and
everything that my mother and father taught me in the hope
of saving me from being a bad influence on myself, little
realizing that I was actually epitomizing what the CypherPunks
Disturbed Male LISP was really about.

  I realize that I am enclosing myself in an aura of grandoise
self-importance once again, since most of the list subscribers
fell into the same knee-jerk reactions as I did, even the ones
who were calling the loudest for censorship, but doing so by
shitting and pissing on the OfficiallyPerceivedTroubleMakers
on the list, so, in actual fact, one might surmise that the
CypherPunks Mailing List was not so much 'saved' by anyone,
as merely confirming itself to be an IndestructibleEntity that
would survive as long as their was a single individual on the
face of the earth who continued to respond to a perfectly
reasonable and valid statement with, "Oh yeah? Sez who?", or
a pair of bickering children screaming, "Did so!/Did not!/Did
so!/Did not!"

  Still, I think I deserve a CypherPunksSecretDecoderRing...


"Question Anonymity!"
~ Janet Renal
  Department of Blow Jobs
  "Why not? Are you 'gay', or something?"

[I am going to take a BeerBreak, and give you a chance to
 check the archives, in order to confirm that the next
 chapter of SAHMD, which deals with the concepts underlying
 the formation of the Army of Dog, was first mentioned on
 the CypherPunks list by Tim C. May, who really did invent
 everything, including the Wheel (doing it in his sleep),
 making the rest of us just dirt under his CypherPunks Elitist
 Feet (TM).]




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bruce Schneier 
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 15:49:58 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Security Newsletter from Bruce Schneier
Message-ID: <199807012249.RAA08149@mixer.visi.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I've just started a crypto newsletter: CRYPTO-GRAM is a free monthly 
email  newsletter on cryptography from Bruce Schneier (author of 
Applied Cryptography, inventor of Blowfish, general crypto pundit 
and occasional crypto curmudgeon).

You can subscribe to CRYPTO-GRAM:

	on the WWW, at http://www.counterpane.com/crypto-gram.html

	by sending e-mail to crypto-gram-subscribe@chaparraltree.com

In the May issue:

	The Secret Story of Non-Secret Encryption.  The story
	behind the British claim that they invented public-key
	cryptography first.

	Advanced Encryption Standard.  How the government
	is replacing DES.

In the June issue:

	Side Channel Attacks.  What's the big idea behind the
	recent press announcements about breaking smart
	cards by analyzing the power line?

	Risks of Key Recovery, Key Escrow, etc.  Why
	implementing a FBI-style key recovery scheme will
	do more to hurt national security than simply letting
	people communicate.

Other regular features include:

	News.  Links to the interesting crypto stories.

	War Stories.  There are security lessons to learn
	from all over, not just from computer geeks.

	Resources.  Summaries of the good Web resources
	on privacy, security, and encryption.

We understand and respect your right to privacy.  You are 
receiving this email only because you have demonstrated an 
interest in the areas of privacy, security and encryption. 
You should also know that we would not sell, rent or share 
our mailing list should you decide to subscribe. Our goal 
is to maintain and develop a relationship of integrity and 
trust with our subscribers.  The members of this list are 
not for sale.  Period.

If you have any questions, don't hesitate to contact me.  
Otherwise, I hope you'll take a moment to subscribe to 
CRYPTO-GRAM at: 

      http://www.counterpane.com/crypto-gram.html
      or mailto:crypto-gram-subscribe@chaparraltree.com
 
Regards,

Bruce 
**********************************************************************
Bruce Schneier, President, Counterpane Systems     Phone: 612-823-1098
101 E Minnehaha Parkway, Minneapolis, MN  55419      Fax: 612-823-1590
                                            http://www.counterpane.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 8tIBa9867@thegrid.net
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 21:53:02 -0700 (PDT)
To: because2z@earthlink.net
Subject: THE BEST ADULT WEBMASTER PRODUCTS
Message-ID: <199807020452.VAA08105@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


UPDATED! DUE TO POPULAR DEMAND WE HAVE
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intrusion for this important correspondence.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 07:11:16 -0700 (PDT)
To: Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC 
Subject: Re: Statist Changes - SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS!!!
In-Reply-To: <009C8893.06B8B280.5@west.cscwc.pima.edu>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


This is one of the better rants I've read in a while. You left out my
Trilateral connection, though.

-Declan

>   So now Declan, currently only a part-time employee of the
> CIA/FBI/DEA/NSA (and ASecretThreeLetterOrganizationWhich-
> SecretlyControlsTheWholeWorldToBeNamedLater) as a result of
> being fired as a Cuspected CypherPunks Cpy, but rehired on
> a consultancy basis to be a Shadow of his former self...






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 04:26:04 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: IE Frees Crypto
Message-ID: <199807021125.HAA06437@camel7.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Source: http://go2.guardian.co.uk/paper.html
Thanks to IB
  
The Guardian Online, Microfile, July 2, 1998

ANNOUNCING the most liberal national policy yet on
the encoding of data sent over the Internet, the Irish 
government last week showed it has every intention 
of being an international centre for electronic commerce. 
Ireland listened to its many resident technology companies, 
rather than bowing to pressure from the US, which wants 
access to encrypted messages. Ireland places no
restrictions on the use, import or export of encryption
products. Individuals can choose to offer a plain text 
version of the encrypted document or hand over a key, 
if a search warrant is proffered. The document was 
released to coincide with the Irish visit of President 
Clinton's Internet tsar, senior trade advisor Ira Magaziner, 
who hinted that his views on encryption diverge from 
those of his boss. "Within the next year, there'll be such 
an availability of high-level encryption that the market 
will take over," he said.

-----

Leads on getting this paper would be appreciated.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: CTIA Daily News 
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 11:04:21 -0700 (PDT)
To: CTIA Daily News 
Subject: CTIA Daily News from WOW-COM - July 2, 1998
Message-ID: <199807021753.MAA07657@mailstrom.revnet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



=============================================
Welcome to today's edition of the CTIA Daily News
from WOW-COM.  Please click on the icon / attachment
for the most important news in wireless communications today.
=============================================


From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: aqwsc1a@cpckor.com.tw
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 23:55:23 -0700 (PDT)
To: aqwsc1a@prodigy.net
Subject: Email 57 Million People for $99
Message-ID: <199807013333AAA37317@post.cpckor.com.tw>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: free@church.com
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 16:40:52 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: GIVING AWAY $432,000 ... For FREE !
Message-ID: <199807022340.QAA04430@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hello

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phone (219) 764-2515
fax (219) 763-2692         
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Eric Murray 
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 16:46:11 -0700 (PDT)
To: jmcc@hackwatch.com
Subject: Re: IE Frees Crypto
In-Reply-To: <359BCD11.30DEF3CD@hackwatch.com>
Message-ID: <199807022345.QAA07915@slack.lne.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


John McCormac writes:
 
[about Irish crypto legislation]
 
> 
> · In order to enable lawful access to encrypted data, legislation will
> be enacted to oblige users of encryption products to release, in
> response to a lawful authorisation, either plaintext which verifiably
> relates to the encrypted data in question or the keys or algorithms
> necessary to retrieve the plaintext. Appropriate sanctions will be put
> in place in respect of failure to comply.
> 
> 
> This seems to be carefully considered in that the user could be asked to
> prove the encrypted document contains the encrypted form of the
> plaintext. But the most important thing is that a search warrant would
> be required to force the user to give up the plaintext or the key.

It says "lawful authorisation" not "search warrant".

That means that sometime later they can go back and
pass another law that says that "lawful authorisation" for
forcing one to reveal one's plaintext or keys is something
much less stringent than a search warrant.
Most proposed US crypto regulations have similar weasel-words.



-- 
Eric Murray  Chief Security Scientist  N*Able Technologies  www.nabletech.com
(email:  ericm  at  lne.com   or   nabletech.com)          PGP keyid:E03F65E5




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 16:59:31 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Finally... a One-Time-Pad implementation that works!!!
Message-ID: <359C1F2B.5DF4@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hmmm...good thing we don't step in it...
-- 
..............................
. Michael Motyka             .
. LSI Logic Corporation      .
. 5050 Hopyard Rd. Suite 300 .
. Pleasanton, CA 94588       .
.                            .
. mmotyka@lsil.com           .
. Voice    925.730.8801      .
. FAX      925.730.8700  :)  .
..............................




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mok-Kong Shen 
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 08:58:30 -0700 (PDT)
To: John Young 
Subject: Re: IE Frees Crypto
In-Reply-To: <199807021125.HAA06437@camel7.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <359BAE16.58832781@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


John Young wrote:
> 
> Source: http://go2.guardian.co.uk/paper.html
> 
> The Guardian Online, Microfile, July 2, 1998
>
> access to encrypted messages. Ireland places no
> restrictions on the use, import or export of encryption
> products. Individuals can choose to offer a plain text
> version of the encrypted document or hand over a key,
> if a search warrant is proffered. The document was

I have a language problem. Does this mean that the authority
depends on the honesty of the individual who hands over
a plain text saying that it corresponds to the ciphertext
or else how is the intent of the authority to obtain the
true plain text to be achieved?

M. K. Shen




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC 
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 18:20:39 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Army of Dog - SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS!!!
Message-ID: <009C896E.CFA3F8E0.5@west.cscwc.pima.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Army of Dog - SPACE ALIENS HIDE M DRUGS!!!
___________________________________________


                   Bienfait Nutly News
                "ANARCH IS OUR ONL HOPE"
                    Christmas Special
                    *****************
                    by King Author and the Dark&Stormy
                    Knights of the Magic RoundTable


A Personal Note From An Army of Dog Prisoner Of War:

To: remailer-operators@dev.null
From: DaltonGang@Dev.Null

  Since my meatspace body is currently hanging on a 
federal meathook, my consistent meatspace identity
is currently available for those who wish to rent
it.
  Given the high value of the BadReputationCapital 
currently connected to my consistent meatspace 
identity, I don't feel I am remiss in requiring both
a small monetary remittance to:
    James Bell #26906086
    Federal Detention Center
    P.O. Box 68976
    Seattle WA 98168
as well as Executive Editor credits on any InterNet
website or email account that uses my consistent
meatspace persona to send threatening letters to
goverment agencies, officials and employees, to
run Assassination Politics Bots, or to engage in
activities which violate the conditions of my parole,
including, it seems...breathing.

James Dalton Bell
"They also serve, who only bend over and wait."

-----Pretty Monitored Privacy Public Cell Key-----
OuCh#$!tHAthuRts*&^nOOooOnotSAnd!!!OKwhO'SNexT????
--------------------------------------------------


Questionable Quotes #37:
"If the Army of God can kill so many people from the
 Missionary Position, where the risk of transmitting
 AIDS is comparitively low, then the Army of Dog
 should be that much more effective, working Doggie
 Style..."
~The Unknown CypherPunk (aka TCM)
 CypherPunks Cult of One
 Bay Area Addition

  The recent phenomena of the Army of Dog, which has had a
long history of never before existing, is rumored by many
to be a splinter group of the Circle Of Eunuchs, which had
come into existence as a result of an announcement on 
December 7, 1989, by Bubba Rom Dos, that the existence such
a group would be extremely dangerous to those involved, and
that everyone assembled should immediately disband and have
no further contact with one another.
  The Circle of Eunuchs, a wholly owned subsiduary of the
Magic Circle, headquartered nowhere, has managed to keep  
their heads, as well as avoid being drawn and quartered, 
by never really existing. Although consisting of 3-member
Gorilla Cells whose manner and method of their use of 
bananas is totally up to the individuals involved, based
on their personal ethics and morals, none of the members
can ever really be certain that the CoE actually exists,
although it is pretty hard to deny the existence of the
bananas, if you have made the mistake of choosing your
fellow CoE Gorilla Cell members randomly from ads in
the free magazines widely available in San Franciso.

  The Army of Dog operates much along the same lines, with  
the major difference being that more of the members choose  
to act alone, in solitary Cult of One units, with the more
moderate members generally requiring reading glasses, while
the more radical members eventually go blind.
  Seasoned warriors, they refuse to ask for pity or sympathy,
having only themselves to blame, 'cause momma tried...  


Questionable Quotes #896:
"ou don't have to have a bottle of Mercetan to know
 which way Janet Reno is blowing."
~JDB
 BellWeatherMen Cult of One
 Seattle AboveGround Cell

  Army of Dog recruits, going one step further than the
Army of God members who have so successfully avoided being
hunted down like dogs by LEA's around the country, perform
many of their nefarious activities on behalf of causes that
they have little or no connection to, little or no interest
in, and do not necessarily believe in.
  For example, an Army of Dog Virtual Warrior who is very
passionate in their feeling regarding the demonization and  
persecution of Kevin MitNikita, but who thinks that Jerome
Dalton Bell is an asshole who got what he had coming to him,
would naturally gravitate toward performing subversive
actions which violated the conditions of Bell's parole.
(If that AoD Warrior was a minor, they might even be bold
 enough to join with other minors in small Saskatchewan
 towns, acting in concert with NineInchNails, knowing they
 would not have to worry about being tried as an adult,
 since they could prove that their uncle, the Author, was
 not even an adult.)
  On the other hand, a CypherPunks Army of Dog Virtual
Warrior, who feels indebted to Jim Bell for the blow jobs
while awaiting trial (even though he *did* have to hold
a knife to Jim's throat, since Jim was playing 'hard to
get'), would perform their subversive activities on 
behalf of the UnaBomber, who they thought was a fucking
lunatic who was better off locked up.
(For instance, they might perform a variety of low-key
 meatspace crimes, such as setting the Dumbarton bridge
 on fire, just before the UnaBomber's trial, and then
 notify the President by email that they were ready to
 step in and take the UnaBomber's place if he was
 executed. Natually, they would do this from a hacked
 account...)


Questionable Quotes #486:
"Give them Flack, John."
~Bob
 Church of the SubGenius Cult of One
 Davis-Monathan Division

  Many Army of Dog recruits are LEA's and paid government
informants who tried to infiltrate the AoD, but who got
a little carried away and eventually ended up performing
some act of meatspace violence so atrocious that they had
to quickly find a scapegoat such as Timoth McVeigh, to
take the fall.
(Although the agent code-named Defcon McCullagh Chainsaw
 claims he was just there to cover the bombing, in a
 free-lance assignment for the Oklahoma Nutly News, he
 has thus far failed to adequately explain submitting 
 a receipt for breakfast with the BATF shortly before
 the explosion, or why the BATF would be having champagne
 and caviar for breakfast, saying only, "Eggs is eggs...")


Questionable Quotes #8:
"I never minded about the little things."
~Bridget Fonda
 The Author's Secret Lover Cult of One

  Although both Army of Dog Virtual Warriors and MeatSpace
Warriors are quick to point out that sex after plugging a
strangers parking meter, or setting off the fire alarm 
at the local school via modem, is phenomenal, they also 
point out that it doesn't hurt to have a co-conspirator 
(sometimes spelled without the hyphen).
  One Army of Bitch WarriorGoddess, speaking about her 
long-time relationship with an AoD programmer, said, 
"Although he starts with a relatively small value of 'c', 
he always increments it, and sometimes puts it through 
what seems to be an endless loop."
(For the non-computer oriented, that loosely translates
 as, "He may not touch bottom, but he sure raises hell
 with the sides.")


Questionable Quote #1:
"Bite them all, and let the Veteranarian sort them out."
~Rabid WarMongrelBat
 Marisupial Cult of One

If ou Can't Erase The Hard Drive Of The One ou Hate,
Erase The Hard Drive Of The One ou're With:
  'The Book of Big Mischief' (not to be confused with a much
better work, with a similar name), advises that any Army of
Dog member who plans to throw a serious, possibly traceable
Hex/Screw into the Back(Door) of a government, corporate,
religious or social entity/system via the tools of their
own workplace, should take great pains to make certain
that their office space contains:
1. American Flag
2. Apple Pie (preferrably baked by your mother)
3. Bible (*not* the New Age Aquarian version)
4. "I Love MicroSoft" Stickers
5. Pictures of the President AND Newt Gingrich
6. A Timothy McVeigh Dartboard
7. A Shrink-Wrapped Copy Of CyberNanny
8. An unfinished, hand-written letter to Louis Freeh,  
  stating that you suspect your supervisor of being
  an anti-government radical.
9. Bail Money

Questionable Quote #2-A:
"A little Byte goes a long way, particularly if you don't
 let go."
~Baby TruthMonger
 Army of Bitch 
 
Questionable Quote #2-B:
"Something small is going to happen...but it's going to
 happen a lot of times...July 5, 1998, 07:09"
~The Arthur
 Army of Dog / Cult of Nun

One For ou, One For Me...Two For ou, One, Two For Me:
  Craperate and Goobermint BeanCounters *do* mind about the  
little things, but these things are unlikely to come to their
attention if the DataEntryOperator and/or the Auditor are
Army of Dog recruits.
  A multitude of mistaken credits to your own account is 
fraud. A multitude of fraudulent credits to the account of
a charitable or subversive organization to which you have
no connection is a mistake.


If ou Don't Unnerstan Nuthin Else, Understand This:
  Joe Montana was a Dan Fouts with a front line.
  General Eisenhower was a General Lee with a front line.
  Winston Churchill was a Neville Chamberlain with a back door.
  Censorship Czars aren't afraid of quarterbacks, generals and
leaders. They are afraid of men and women in trenches, behind
data-entry screens, and people with flashlights, peering into
the dark and hidden places.
  The Enemies of Freedom of Speech are not afraid of someone
yelling "Fire" in a crowded theater--that is a StrawDog they
use to prevent someone yelling "Fire" before their agents are
clear of the Reichstag, or the Murrah Federal Building.
  Friends of the Destroyer can whack a King, a Kennedy, or a
KonspiratorToBeNamedLater, but they can't whack out things
they can't see--like concepts, ideals, values and free
thought--but they are trying...
  If the Voices of Kings, Kennedys and Konspirators are not
reaching the far walls of the ElectroMagnetic Curtain, and
echoing throughout the Tao of CyberSpace, then the Friends
of the Destroyer, the Enemies of Freedom, will prevail.
  The Voice of the Tao Whispers...
  The Voice of Infinity Thunders...
  The Voice of Censorship is Silent...
  The Voice of Freedom is ou!


The Most Dangerous Person On Television:
  ou...the viewer.

The Most Dangerous Person On The InterNet:
  ou...the participant.

Anarchy Is Our Only Hope...


Army of Dog Prisoners of War:
  Tim Bell
  Jim McVeigh
  Nelson Ghandi
  Mahatma Mandella
  Avery Body
  Elsie Mittnick
  Human Gus-Peter

Free Army of Dog Warriors:
  Us...except for you and me 


The rEvolution isn't tomorrow...that will be too late.
The rEvolution wasn't yesterday...the battle lines have moved.
The rEvolution Is NOW!

Questionable Quote #709:
"Close ranks, every man for himself!"
~Chief CypherPunks SpokesPerson
 Army of DoGod, Cult of Nun

  Anarchy Is Our Only Hope...Together, We Can Make It Happen





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 15:29:31 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Code Wizard Frank Rowlett Dies
Message-ID: <199807022229.SAA20296@camel8.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Frank Rowlett, a founder of NSA's National Cryptologic School,
has died at 90. The New York Times has an obituary on the
"code wizard" today:

   http://jya.com/nsa-rowlett.htm

Rowlett was one of three earliest recruits of William Friedman,
head of the the US Army Signal Intelligence Service, a 1930s 
forerunner of NSA's "massive cryptologic system today" (Kahn). 
After a long career in Army cryptology Rowlett served with the 
CIA and was special assistant to the DIRNSA at the end of his 
service in the 1960s.

He is credited with helping to break the Japanese RED and 
PURPLE codes, efforts unlerlying the Allies World War II 
MAGIC cryptanalysis system.

He was also an inventor, following work of others, of the
SIGABA machine, the US Army's version of Hebern's 
cipher device, and  held other cryptologic patents.

David Kahn has tart remarks in The Codebreakers about 
how Friedman, and to a lesser extent, Rowlett, got national 
awards for work done by others, through "well-situated
friends, picayune mechanical differences, and a great but
totally irrelevant record." (page 392) 









From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John McCormac 
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 11:14:38 -0700 (PDT)
To: Mok-Kong Shen 
Subject: Re: IE Frees Crypto
In-Reply-To: <199807021125.HAA06437@camel7.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <359BCD11.30DEF3CD@hackwatch.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Mok-Kong Shen wrote:
> 
> John Young wrote:
> >
> > Source: http://go2.guardian.co.uk/paper.html

The Guardian article is probably not as good as the real thing :-) and
so I've quoted excerpts from it here. The full document is on:
http://www.irlgov.ie/tec/html/signat.htm 

(John, it would be better to quote the actual document on your page as
the Guardian article is only a limited view.) 


Ira Magaziner was in negotiation with the Irish government over this and
some meetings were held in secret. I am still trying to get all the
facts on this one. 


· Users shall have the right to access strong and secure encryption to
ensure the confidentiality, security and reliability of stored data and
electronic communications.

· Users shall have the right to choose any cryptographic method.

· The production, import and use of encryption technologies in Ireland
shall not be subject to any regulatory controls other than obligations
relating to lawful access.

· The export of cryptographic products is to continue to be regulated in
accordance with the relevant EU Regulations and Decisions and Irish
national legislation which reflect the Wassenaar Arrangement on Export
Controls for Dual-Use Goods and Technologies and Conventional Arms.


This one is worrying as the gobshites in the EC are capable of really
banjaxing the situation. Since EU Directives are law when they are
published, they could well cause a bit of legal conflict. Under EU
legislation, at least one of my books could be banned.


· In order to enable lawful access to encrypted data, legislation will
be enacted to oblige users of encryption products to release, in
response to a lawful authorisation, either plaintext which verifiably
relates to the encrypted data in question or the keys or algorithms
necessary to retrieve the plaintext. Appropriate sanctions will be put
in place in respect of failure to comply.


This seems to be carefully considered in that the user could be asked to
prove the encrypted document contains the encrypted form of the
plaintext. But the most important thing is that a search warrant would
be required to force the user to give up the plaintext or the key.
Surprisingly it could be interpreted so that the user only has to prove
the link rather than giving up his or her key.


2. Electronic Signatures

· Legislation will be enacted to facilitate the use of electronic
signatures through the establishment of a framework for the
authorisation of bodies to act as nationally accredited Certification
Authorities.


This is unusual - could this mean that each Irish citizen would have
their own Cert/sig? Everyone who works in Ireland or avails of any state
services seems to have an RSI number (just like the SS number in the
US). They introduced mag strip cards for unemployment benefits a few
years ago.

I am currently working on an article about this proposal on crypto and
will post it when I finish it.

Regards...jmcc
-- 
********************************************
John McCormac            * Hack Watch News
jmcc@hackwatch.com       * 22 Viewmount, 
Voice:   +353-51-873640  * Waterford,
BBS&Fax: +353-51-850143  * Ireland
http://www.hackwatch.com/~kooltek
********************************************

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: blkjck@gate.net
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 20:39:35 -0700 (PDT)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: Win At Blackjack
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


"This is a one time mailing, if you are not interested, simply hit 'delete'."


Win at Blackjack


Fed up at losing your hard earned money in a casino?

Fed up with the loser's drive home?

Fed up with being in a multimillion dollar luxury casino and wondering which part you helped finance?

Well learn how to play the game! Give yourself a fighting chance...

I am a twenty-seven year veteran of the Casino Industry and I paid for my computer amongst many other items by playing Blackjack using this method.

Its simple to understand, no card counting involved, and will take minutes to learn........ Good Luck!


Send $21 and your mailing address to :                        (Free Shipping):

J.R.Nyman
8401 South Wood Circle
Apt #13
Fort Myers, FL  33919










Thank you for your time....
















From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John McCormac 
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 17:04:24 -0700 (PDT)
To: Eric Murray 
Subject: Re: IE Frees Crypto
In-Reply-To: <199807022345.QAA07915@slack.lne.com>
Message-ID: <359C200A.C113F0BA@hackwatch.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Eric Murray wrote:
> 
> John McCormac writes:
> 
> [about Irish crypto legislation]
> 
> > 
> > · In order to enable lawful access to encrypted data, legislation
> will
> > be enacted to oblige users of encryption products to release, in
> > response to a lawful authorisation, either plaintext which
> verifiably
> > relates to the encrypted data in question or the keys or algorithms
> > necessary to retrieve the plaintext. Appropriate sanctions will be
> put
> > in place in respect of failure to comply.
> > 
> >
> > This seems to be carefully considered in that the user could be
> asked to
> > prove the encrypted document contains the encrypted form of the
> > plaintext. But the most important thing is that a search warrant
> would
> > be required to force the user to give up the plaintext or the key.
> 
> It says "lawful authorisation" not "search warrant".
> 
> That means that sometime later they can go back and
> pass another law that says that "lawful authorisation" for
> forcing one to reveal one's plaintext or keys is something
> much less stringent than a search warrant.
> Most proposed US crypto regulations have similar weasel-words.

Yep Eric,
I think that most people have jumped the gun here on this one. These are
not the actual regulations. They are only part of a framework proposal
so the eventual legislation could be lightyears removed from these
principles. (In fact given that most of the discussions between Ira
Magaziner and the Irish government were carried out in secret, I think
that the eventual legislation will be riddled with loopholes. Guess we
may have become the 51st state and we didn't even know. :-) ) The
problem is that most of the journos who wrote about it are relatively
clueless on the crypto aspect of things. There was some input from
Electronic Frontier Ireland  (Irish version of EFF) on the principles so
that is a good thing.


Regards...jmcc
-- 
********************************************
John McCormac            * Hack Watch News
jmcc@hackwatch.com       * 22 Viewmount, 
Voice:   +353-51-873640  * Waterford,
BBS&Fax: +353-51-850143  * Ireland
http://www.hackwatch.com/~kooltek
********************************************

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 21:22:40 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: jeopardize law enforcement and national security objectives
Message-ID: <19980703044220.28128.qmail@hades.rpini.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



                              SKIPJACK Review
                                      
                               Interim Report
                                      
                           The SKIPJACK Algorithm
                                      
              Ernest F. Brickell, Sandia National Laboratories
                 Dorothy E. Denning, Georgetown University
              Stephen T. Kent, BBN Communications Corporation
                            David P. Maher, AT&T
                    Walter Tuchman, Amperif Corporation
   
                               July 28, 1993
   
                             (Copyright (c) 1993)
     _________________________________________________________________
   
                             Executive Summary
                                      
   The objective of the SKIPJACK review was to provide a mechanism
   whereby persons outside the government could evaluate the strength of
   the classified encryption algorithm used in the escrowed encryption
   devices and publicly report their findings. Because SKIPJACK is but
   one component of a large, complex system, and because the security of
   communications encrypted with SKIPJACK depends on the security of the
   system as a whole, the review was extended to encompass other
   components of the system. The purpose of this Interim Report is to
   report on our evaluation of the SKIPJACK algorithm. A later Final
   Report will address the broader system issues.

[...]

       We examined the internal structure of SKIPJACK to determine its
       susceptibility to differential cryptanalysis. We concluded it was
       not possible to perform an attack based on differential
       cryptanalysis in less time than with exhaustive search.

[...]

       SKIPJACK algorithm is classified SECRET NOT RELEASABLE TO FOREIGN
       NATIONALS. This classification reflects the high quality of the
       algorithm, i.e., it incorporates design techniques that are
       representative of algorithms used to protect classified
       information. Disclosure of the algorithm would permit analysis
       that could result in discovery of these classified design
       techniques, and this would be detrimental to national security.
       However, while full exposure of the internal details of SKIPJACK
       would jeopardize law enforcement and national security objectives,
       it would not jeopardize the security of encrypted communications.
       This is because a shortcut attack is not feasible even with full
       knowledge of the algorithm. Indeed, our analysis of the
       susceptibility of SKIPJACK to a brute force or shortcut attack was
       based on the assumption that the algorithm was known.
       Conclusion 3: While the internal structure of SKIPJACK must be
       classified in order to protect law enforcement and national
       security objectives, the strength of SKIPJACK against a
       cryptanalytic attack does not depend on the secrecy of the
       algorithm.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 00:35:17 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Beginning of process of decrypting net-nanny files (fwd)
Message-ID: <199807030736.JAA07229@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Article 425292 of alt.religion.scientology:
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Beginning of process of decrypting net-nanny files
Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 00:28:03 -0700
Lines: 100
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit



There are three files with the netnanny, called d32l.dll,
n32l.dll, and p32l.dll.                                    
These are not really dlls, but are almost certainly the
database of words and phrases that the netnanny is interested
in.

If you look at these files, there is a total of 1037 lines,
each of which has from 10 or so to 60 or so characters.
It turns out (see below) that two characters in the data file
almost certainly map to 1 character of the plaintext, so
the phrases are 5 to 30 characters long.  1037 phrases of
5 to 30 characters seems about right.

If you look closely at the text, you'll see that they letters
alternate between the ranges of 32-63 and 96-127 (decimal).
That is, a line begins "1{7}.f#f".  The 1, 7, ., and #
are all in the range 32-63, and the {, }, f, and f are in the
range 96-127.  Each of these letters, then, can take one of
32 values, or five bits.  If you combine these, you find that
there are only 512 combinations used of the pairs of letters,
instead of the expected 1024 (=2^10).  It turns out that if
you construct a 10 bit word with the first 5 bits from the
first character and the second 5 from the second character,
then you find that the middle two bits are always either both 
0 or both 1.  So, there are 512 possibilities.

These 512 numbers are fairly uniformly distributed, so this is
not a simple substitution cipher.  Interestingly, though, again,
using the above construction of a 10 bit number from the two five
bit pairs, you find that the high order bits change very slowly
if at all from character to character. This is the beginning of
d32l.dll (fair use quotation of two lines from the file)

1101110001
1100110100
1100110011
0011001110
0011110000
0001110101
0010000000
0010000001
0010001111
0011001010
0001000100
0001001101
0000001110 
0010000101
0000001000
0111110101
0110110111

0110001111
0111111110
0110000101
0110111110
0110110010
0101110110
0101000010
0101111000
0110001110
0100001110
0100111011
1011000001
1011111000
1011111000
1001110010
1010000111
1010110111    
1010001000
1000111000
1011001111
1011111101
1010001011
1010111001
1101000111
1101110101
1100000011
1100110001
1100111111
1111001101
1111111011
1110001001

Note that the middle two bits are always the same, and the high
order bits seem to be changing slowly, but slowly upwards.

My guess is that some value is being added to the plaintext character,
and this value is incremented every plaintext character.  Further,
perhaps, there is a exclusive or being performed.  In any case, I hope
that this gets other people moving in the right direction.  
Suggested words to look for, that seem to have tweaked the nanny, are
xenu hemet zinjifar helena kobrin mark ingber grady ward mirele
rnewman wollersheim andreas heldal-lund operation clambake
"gilman hot springs" motherfucker cocksucker


                            




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: hippyman 
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 20:38:32 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks 
Subject: Re: Between A Rat And A Hard Place
In-Reply-To: <009C8971.590B87E0.3@west.cscwc.pima.edu>
Message-ID: <199807030338.WAA28893@client.alltel.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 08:40 PM 7/2/98 , Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC
 wrote:
>X-URL: mailto:cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
>X-Mailer: Lynx, Version 2-4-2
>
>
>What are the implications of tossing a moltov cocktail
>through the window of banks that require those cashing
>checks to be treated like common criminals, being
>fingerprinted and having their picture taken, with a
>number attached to it?
>
>What are the implications of a Cult Of One legal system
>that pronounces those guilty of treating the individual
>as a criminal to be sentenced to a punch in the schnozz?
>
>What are the implications of refusing to provide a
>fingerprint sample, but offering to provide a sperm
>sample on the face of the check, in full view of
>all the customers who can act as witnesses?
>
>What are the implications of asking the bank teller
>if she minds undoing the first couple of buttons on
>her blouse, if you are having a little trouble
>supplying the sample?
>
>If you think _I_ am crazy, then you should have seen
>the lunatic in my bank today who acted like a criminal
>in order to get them to cash his check, by giving them
>a fingerprint--HAA!HAA!HAA!
>It used to be that you had to act _honest_ in order to
>get a check cashed.
>
>TroubleMakerMonger

Is this bitch just a fucking republican or plain crazy?
 

hippyman 
ICQ: 11517383
PGP Fingerprint: E3C3 35C8 0FD9 6F36 2ADD 0541 B58C F6BD D347 BD0A





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: one4evil@juno.com (Nalus Optic)
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 07:52:58 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC : Re: Army of Dog - SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS!!!
Message-ID: <19980703.104911.10094.0.one4evil@juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I was asked to forward this message to the Cypherpunks list by Linda
Reed...Who sent it to me as a responce to one of my e-mails...I know that
by doing so, I risk being kicked, stomped, beated siverly amongst the
neck and shoulders, and even flamed...But I think so many of us are not
looking at the true messages involved in these 'spams'.  Reed is makeing
several REALLY good points...Given, Reed does rant a bit...And some of
what is writen is just so much bullshit...But all of it, taken in
context, is Truth (TM)...
Let me make a suggestion to Reed and all others involved...There is a
time and place for everything...The time for rEvolution, as Reed puts it,
is _NOW!_ However, Cypherpunks is not the place...So does anyone know of
any good e-lists that would love to get the ALIANS posts?  Maybe your
five minute's of thought on a way to help Reed will make everyone happy,
Vs the hours some of us are spending complaining about the damn thing.

		D
___________________________________________________________________

---Begin Forward Message---

The Geezinslaw Brothers, from Austin, TX, had a song called,
"If You Think I'm Crazy Now, You Should Have Seen Me When
 I Was A Kid."

I envy today's youngsters, who have the opportunity to 
participate in a Virtual Revolution that is every bit
as serious, and will have consequences just as great as,
any so-called World War that has ever been fought in
the history of human evolutionary development.
I envy them because they have, if they seize the 
opportunity, a chance to engage in rEvolutionary acts
of Virtual anarchy, derring-do, war & violence which will
not threaten the lives of those whose only crime is to
be in the wrong place at the wrong time, physically,
but will threaten only those whose crime is to be in
their own mindspace, at the right time for them to
be there, but refusing to allow others the same right.

I do not pass judgement on Timothy McVeigh, any more
than I pass judgement on Che Guerva, Louis Riel,
Leonard Pelltier, or Ho Chi Min.
They did what they had to do, and they used what they
thought was the best judgment and tools of their day.
Anyone who claims to judge a moral differnce between
them and those they opposed is a fucking BeanCounter,
and should be in line behind the lawyers when the
firing squads line up.
I wish that Timothy McVeigh could have done what he did
within the confines of Digital Reality, on the InterNet,
perhaps blowing a hole in the ElectroMagnetic Curtain
that would allow the children to survive, but also allow
them to glimpse what was on the other side of the wall,
so that it could not be denied once the hole was closed.
That was not to be...

[KFor all of the sincere intent underlying my TruthSPAMing
and RealityBlathering, I find myself at a loss to truly
describe what I see as the importance of those entering
the Digital/Global/Interactive Age that is being born to
realize that *they* will be the ones who either allow the
dinosaurs of the past to usurp the current rEvolution of
human development, or to act as the Founding Fathers ojf
a Global/Digital Democracy, recognizing that the dinosaurs
are wearing red, marching in straight lines, and cussing
out the shit-disturbers as cowards for hiding behind
Digital Trees known as Remailers. 

The Great Myth is that there isn't enough to go around.
Enough *what*?
Money? - There's as much as we agree there is...
Time? - I spent a good part of the day sitting on my ass...
Love? - I love Janet Reno and Louis Free. They're great targets...
Cadillacs? - Any President who proposed to block communism in
  southeast Asia would have been laughed out of office. It turns
  out that it would have saved us money and invigorated the
  auto industry.

Cadillacs? - Any President who proposed to block communism in
  southeast Asia by buying everyone a Cadillac would have been
  laughed out of office. It turns out that it would have saved
  the US money and invigorated the auto industry. 
Freedom & Privacy? - Like Cadillacs, there is as much as we
  are willing to pay for. We are not going to be able to have
  it, however, until we are ready to make the giant leap of
  faith it takes to trust that $30,000 is better spent in
  promoting Freedom & Privacy, than buying another toilet
  seat for the Censorship CCoommiittee executive restroom.

If there is enough BullShit to go around, then, according to
the Eternal Laws of the Tao, there is enough Reality to go
around, as well.
Those who recognize the Reality that I profess as the 
TruthMonger might get the impression that I am attempting
to hoard the Truth, because their isn't enough to go around.
Nothing could be further from the Truth (TM)...

I'm willing to share... As a matter of fact, I could use
some of yours, since I'm starting to run a bit low, as a
result of begining to believe my own press when others
indicate that I am something special, because they agree
with me, and thus I run the risk of becoming a Spokesperson
For Consensus, franchising the TruthMonger persona, and
speaking the EasyTruths in order to capture the mass-market
when, in reality, I could retire quite comfortably from
the income I receive from having Truth (TM) trademarked,
since everyone who speaks the Truth (TM) currently has
to send me a nickle, or I'll sue their sorry ass...

One more beer, and I'll be losing it...so NoMoreMrNiceGuy...

The Cold Hard Truth:
Truth, Freedom, Privacy, Love, ad infinitum...all have a Cost!

The LIE:
That which we have an inherent Right to, should be Free!

The Reality:
Virtual/Conceptual/Idealistic Reality have a physical cost,
but they also have spiritual earning power.
Humans are both physical and spiritual beings...

It 'costs' you $1.00 not to knock someone over the head with
a rock when they are standing beside you at a bus stop with
a dollar in your hand.
Your soul appreciates $1.00 if you refrain from doing so...
The choice is yours, and yours, alone.
(Although my personal *opinion* as to the ethics/morality of
 your decision might vary depending on whether or not *I* am
 the person standing next to you at the bus stop.)

I don't know how many soul-credits it cost Tim McVeigh to
bomb the Murrah Federal Building, and I don't know how
many soul-credits he earned for waking up government
employees to the fact that their actions have consequences,
as well.
That is between Tim McVeigh and his Accountant.

There is a Cost to telling the truth, to taking a stand, to
refusing to be be oppressed/repressed in Virtual Reality.
I have had my possessions confiscated and criminal charges
filed against me as a result of speaking what I consider to
be the truth, within the confines of CyberSpace.
Freely speaking my mind has led to physical retribution against
me. I can vouch for the fact that Freedom of Speech has a Cost.
I am willing to pay that Cost...

I am more than happy to pay whatever price it requires to
be the TruthMonger, because that what is important to me.
I'm not doing anyone any favors...I am doing what I feel it
is my role to do.
My definition of a Hero, is a person who does what they can,
who fulfills the role that they have the capacity to fulfill.

A man who charges a hill, and dies in the process, is a Hero
if he does it because he looks around him and sees that it is
his role, his time, his destiny.
A man who charges a hill, and lives in the process, because
of the expectations of others, is a fool.
I have seen Heroes who charged the hill because they looked
around them and saw Warriors who had families waiting for
them, while they had none. I have seen Heroes who charged
the hill when they knew it would likely result in their
families waiting in vain for their return, because they
knew that their actions would result in a dozen families
not having to grieve the loss of a loved one.

I don't expect todays CyberWarriors to get their asses shot
off for thumbing their noses at authority--that is foolish.
However, if you're sitting at your desk at the HeadQuarters
of the Great Oppressor, and HeOrShe walks in, hands you the
latest model of DeathRay, asking your opinio, and you decide
to do something very, very foolish...I'll understand.

All I'm saying is that Values, Concepts, Ideals, Ethics, all
have a cost. Whatever you can contribute in the physical realm
to help cover that cost is 100% deductible in the esoteric
realm.
Andy Warhol prophecied that everyone would receive their
fifteen-minutes of Fame, in *his* future.
TruthMonger's Prophecy is that, in HisOrHer future, everyone
will get a shot at the Great Oppressor.

Use it, or lose it...

Love,
Toto

***********************
p.s. - I am currently writing on an early Sperry computer which
has 128K of RAM, and can barely run WordPerfect 4.1, and then
having to transfer it to Windows 3.0, to clean it up, before
sending it to a hacked Unix account and transferring it via
a VAX system to its destination.
Thus I cannot cc: this without fucking it up, and I would
appreciate it if you could send it to cypherpunks@toad.com
so that I could download it tomorrow.

p.p.s. - I have had a long, hard life, in which I have done
some stupid things, some evil things, and some mindless things,
but I've also done some things that are beyond fucking belief.
Overall, life has been incredible, but I look upon the coming
generation with envy, because there is a transition coming
that--LOVEorHate/WARorPEACE/WINorLOSE--will give each and
every particpant in the experience a chance to exit this
mortal plane with a smile, and the words,
"It's been Real (TM)."

--------- End forwarded message ----------

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 08:02:49 -0700 (PDT)
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: FBI Tesla Files
In-Reply-To: <199807030022.TAA10819@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Jim,

Maybe you know that the FBI offers about 256 pages of
docouments related to Nikola Tesla on its FOIA Web site:

   HTTP://www.fbi.gov/foipa/hisfigs.htm#tesla

They are in two large PDF files of 4.8MB and 5.8MB.

In case you've not seen them here's a brief:

None of the papers are by Tesla himself, and most
relate to various inquiries about Tesla's "missing papers,"
based on O'Neil's book claim that the FBI confiscated 
Tesla's papers and effects shortly after his death. The FBI 
claims that it was the Alien Property Office which had Tesla's 
effects and that the FBI had not been involved.

Several focus on Tesla's famous "Death Ray" of the 1940s,
with requests for access to the scientific papers on it, or
warn of its possible use by foreign enemies. To most the
FBI sends a standard disavowal.

However, one is of interest: a Feb 1981 inquiry by the 
Defense Department which stated in a then-classified 
paragraph:

"(C) We believe that certain of Tesla's papers may contain
basic principles which would be of considerable value to
ongoing research within the DoD."

The FBI answers that it never had Tesla's papers but 
reports that a review of those at the Alien Property Office 
by an MIT scientific team found that none of the papers 
contained significant scientific information of national
security interest. Yet, the FBI goes on, the Alien Property 
Office told the FBI in the 1950s that in the only recorded 
visit to the Tesla archive in January 1943 (shortly after
Tesla's death) an unidentified "Federal authority" 
microfilmed numerous papers, film whose whereabouts
the FBI knows nothing.

There's a bit more about electronic research at Wright 
Paterson AFB. And a DoD thank you letter on behalf 
of Dr. S. L. Zeiburg, Deputy Undersecretary
(Strategic and Space Systems).

A once-secret 1983 series investigated a claim that 
Margaret Cheney's biography of Tesla, "Tesla: Man 
Out of Time,"  points to national security threats 
based on allegations of Soviet development of his 
experiments using papers possibly obtained through 
his nephew, Sava Kosanovic, a high Yugoslav official. 
Many pages of Cheney's book marked at threatening 
passages on the "missing papers" are in the file.












From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED/EUREKA! 
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 08:45:03 -0700 (PDT)
To: All Eureka/Stuffed Subscribers: ;
Subject: Daily News Thu Jul 2 '98
Message-ID: <19980703111406.19186.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/html

New: STUFFED - the News & Babes Daily!

Click Here For STUFFED, The NEW Daily Tabloid
 News And Babes Color Supplement From Eureka!

Click here to read it: http://stuffed.net/98/7/2/



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mia Westerholm 
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 05:01:52 -0700 (PDT)
To: Crypto-Press-Global@DataFellows.com
Subject: Data Fellows Secures the World's Largest Computer Demo Event
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980703131632.00a4a9c0@smtp.DataFellows.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


For immediate release
3 July 1998

Data Fellows Secures the World's Largest Computer Demo Event

Assembly '98 Sponsored by F-Secure Data Security Products

Data Fellows, one of the world's leading data security development
companies, is proud to support Assembly '98, the world's largest computer
demo event. Data Fellows will also maintain data security during the
happening. 

Assembly is an annual computer multimedia event, celebrated in Helsinki,
Finland. It gathers amateurs and professionals from all over the world to
meet other demo experts and compete in the art of demo making. A demo binds
thrilling graphics and animations with massive sound effects to form a
multimedia presentation of computer programming. 

Assembly '98 will be held during 7th - 9th of August 1998 and is expecting
3000 visitors. Prizes worth more than $25,000 USD will be awarded.

The F-Secure Anti-Virus product will be used to protect the main file
servers of Assembly '98 against viruses. Copies of the product will also be
distributed to all participants. The F-Secure Network Encryption products
will be used to protect the network traffic of the ad-hoc Assembly network
- which is hooked live to the Internet.

"Protecting a happening like Assembly is certainly a challenge", comments
Data Fellows' Manager of Anti-Virus Research, Mr. Mikko Hyppönen. "However,
we've been co-operating with Assembly organizers all along since 1993, and
I'm sure of yet another success."

"We do realise that the stereotype of a demo coder and the stereotype of a
virus writer are pretty close to each other - both are often male teenagers
who are experts with low-level programming." Continues Hyppönen. "That's
why we want to promote a happening like Assembly, which shows these young
people a way to use their programming talents in a safe and productive
way."

More information about Assembly '98 at http://www.assembly.org

About Data Fellows
 
Data Fellows is the world's leading data security development company with
offices in San Jose, California, and Espoo, Finland.  Its innovative, award
winning F-Secure product range consists of a unique combination of strong
encryption and revolutionary anti-virus software. Data Fellows has a
support, training and distribution network covering over 80 countries
around the world.

Data Fellows is privately held.  The annual growth in net sales has been
close to 100% since the company was founded in 1988. Data Fellows belongs
to an elite group of companies that have a triple-A credit rating from
Dun&Bradstreet. 

For further information, please contact

USA:
Data Fellows Inc.
Tel. (408) 938 6700
Fax. (408) 938 6701

Europe:    
Data Fellows Ltd.                     
Tel. +358 9 859 900         
Fax. +358 9 8599 0599

Also, visit the Data Fellows web site at  http://www.DataFellows.com/


¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤
Mia.Westerholm@DataFellows.com 
http://www.DataFellows.com

Data Fellows Ltd.
PL 24
FIN-02231 ESPOO, FINLAND
Tel. +358 9 859 900
Fax. +358 9 8599 0599




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: hippyman 
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 00:36:47 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks 
Subject: Re: #cypherpunks is happening
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199807030736.CAA12730@client.alltel.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 12:02 AM 7/3/98 , you wrote:
>On efnet.
 
Nope, it's usually pretty boring.

Been there many times when I'm on irc, nothing happening.

BUT, if you show up - I can make it interesting!!

Logins and passes to play with!

Catch me in there.

hippyman 
ICQ: 11517383
PGP Fingerprint: E3C3 35C8 0FD9 6F36 2ADD 0541 B58C F6BD D347 BD0A





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 07:40:21 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Lotus Notes signature / encryption
Message-ID: <19980703150004.1789.qmail@hades.rpini.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hi list members:

                   Could someone kindly tell me about the drawbacks of the Lotus Notes signature / encryption system (export version)?

Cheers.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Lynne L. Harrison" 
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 14:02:20 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: DOT and SSN's
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980703170726.007e9170@pop.mhv.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


The Government Has Our Numbers
by Lori Patel 
4:00am  3.Jul.98.PDT

Your banker has it. Your employer has it. Your insurer, the IRS, and,
frankly, you can't remember who else has it. So what difference does it
make if the US Department of Transportation joins the crowd asking to see
your Social Security number?

Recently, the department published its intention to require all states to
verify Social Security numbers before issuing or renewing drivers'
licenses.  Depending on who one asks, the significance of this decision can
swell or shrink like a top-notch
special effect. 

"Fear of crime and terrorism has caused us to let down our guard against
excessive intrusion into the lives of the law abiding. The ease of minor
borrowing and the transformation of shopping into recreation has addicted
us to credit cards," wrote
New York Times columnist William Safire. "Taken together, the fear and the
ease make a map of our lives available to cops, crazies, and con men alike."

. . .
 
http://www.wired.com/news/news/email/other/politics/story/13441.html







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Trans World Specials" 
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 18:05:27 -0700 (PDT)
To: Trans World Airlines Customers 
Subject: Trans World Specials Fare Sales
Message-ID: <19980703202326.12254.qmail@inet2.twa.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


SUPER MILEAGE OFFER
 Take Advantage of TWA's New Website
 
 As a frequent traveler, you're constantly on
 the go.  So we've made it easy to access your
 Aviators portfolio information via the Internet.
 Just point your web browser at the all-new TWA
 website(http://www.twa.com), select "Frequent 
 Traveler Information", and provide your Aviators 
 portfolio number when prompted.  You can check 
 your portfolio balance, verify mileage credit, 
 and more.
 
 To celebrate our new website, when you use Trans 
 World Access, TWA's online booking system, to 
 book and travel on or before December 31, 1998,
 you'll earn bonus miles for your round-trip 
 flights.  With each round-trip flight, you'll
 earn an even bigger bonus - up to 15,000 miles in all!
 
 1st Flight - 1,000 miles
 2nd Flight - 2,000 miles
 3rd Flight - 4,000 miles
 4th Flight - 8,000 miles
 
 And these bonuses are in addition to all other mileage -
 actual miles flown, privilege-level bonus and class-of-
 service bonus.
 
 The new TWA website.  It's quick, convenient and rewarding.
 See for yourself at http://www.twa.com
 
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
 * HOW TO SUBSCRIBE
 http://www.twa.com/odpairs/
 
 Your email address will not be distributed or sold to any company or 
 organization which is not an Aviators program partner.
 For information about the Aviators program and its member benefits see our 
 program overview at: 
 http://www.twa.com/frq_trav_info/ft_aviators_prog.html
 
 * HOW TO UNSUBSCRIBE 
 Reply to this message and place the word REMOVE
 in the Subject line.  We will promptly remove you from the database.
 






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: --Bull*sEye_ <61w34v@ibm.net>
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 16:27:54 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <19943672.886214@relay.comanche.denmark.eu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Authenticated sender is <61w34v@ibm.net>
Subject:  __Bull*s-Eye-Targeting-Software
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

EMAIL MARKETING WORKS!!

Bull's Eye Gold is the PREMIER email address collection tool.
This program allows you to develop TARGETED lists of email
addresses.  Doctors, florists, MLM, biz opp,...you can collect
anything...you are only limited by your imagination!  You can
even collect email addresses for specific states, cities, and
even countries!  All you need is your web browser and this program.
Our software utilizes the latest in search technology called
"spidering". By simply feeding the spider program a starting
website it will collect for hours. The spider will go from website
to targeted website providing you with thousands upon thousands of
fresh TARGETED email addresses. When you are done collecting,  the
spider removes duplicates and saves the email list in a ready to
send format. No longer is it necessary to send millions of ads to
get a handful of responses...SEND LESS...EARN MORE!!!

A terrific aspect of the Bull's Eye software is that there is
no difficult set up involved and no special technical mumbo-jumbo
to learn. All you need to know is how to search for your targeted
market in one of the many search engines and let the spider do the
rest! Not familiar with the search engines? No problem, we provide
you with a list of all the top search engines. Just surf to the
location of a search engine on your browser then search for the
market you wish to reach...it's that easy!

For instance if you were looking for email addresses of Doctors
in New York all you would do is:

1) Do a search using your favorite search engine by typing in
the words doctor(s) and New York
2) Copy the URL (one or more)...that's the stuff after the
http://...  for instance it might look like
http://www.yahoo.com/?doctor(s)/?New+York
3) Press the START button

THAT's IT!!!  The Bull's Eye spider will go to all the websites
that are linked, automatically extracting the email addresses
you want.

The spider is passive too! That means you can let it run all
day or all night while you are working on important things or
just having fun on your computer. There is no need to keep a
constant watch on it, just feed it your target market and give
it praise when it delivers thousands of email addresses at
the end of the day!

Features of the Bull's Eye Software:

* Does TARGETED searches of websites collecting the email
  addresses you want!
* Collects Email addresses by City, State, even specific
  Countries
* Runs Automatically...simply enter the Starting information,
  press The Start Button, and it does the rest
* Filters out duplicates
* Keeps track of URLs already visited
* Can run 24 hours per day, 7 days per week
* Fast and Easy List Management
* Also has built in filtering options...you can put in words
  that it "Must" have while searching,...you can even put in
  criteria that it  "Must NOT Have"...giving you added flexibility
* Also imports email addresses from any kind of files (text
  files, binary files, database files)
* List editor handles Multiple files to work on many lists
  simultaneously
* Has a Black-Book feature... avoid sending emails to people
  who do not want to receive it
* Built-in Mail program...send email directly on the internet
  with just a click of your mouse
* Personalized Emails...if the email address has the user's
  name when it is collected,..you can send Personalized emails!!!
* Sort by Location, Server, User Name, Contact Name
* Advanced Operations:
· Email address lists export in many different formats
  (HTML, Comma delimited, text file)
· Advanced editing...Transfer, Copy,  Addition, Delete, Crop,
  Move to Top/Bottom
· Operations between lists...Union, Subtraction, Comparison
* Program is Passive,...meaning you can run other programs at
  the same time

CALL FOR MORE INFORMATION   213-969-4930
CALL FOR MORE INFORMATION   213-969-4930

ORDERING INFORMATION

Customer Name
Company Name
Address
City
State                       Zip
Phone                                       Fax
Email Address

______ BULL'S EYE SOFTWARE   $259.00
Includes Software, Instructions, Technical Support

______ Shipping & Handling  (2-3 Day Fedex)  $10.00
                           (Fedex Overnite) $20.00

______  TOTAL
                 (CA Residents add applicable sales tax)

*All orders are for Win 95 and Win NT

                *****CREDIT CARDS ACCEPTED*****
                   MASTERCARD   VISA   AMEX

   PLEASE CALL 213-969-4930 to process your order
                        9am-5pm Pacific Time
                Checks or Money Orders send to:
                      WorldTouch Network Inc.
5670 Wilshire Blvd.  Suite 2170 Los Angeles, CA 90036
Please note:  Allow 5 business days for all checks to
clear before order is shipped.


*If you would like your email address removed, please
write us at the above address.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: may42@cosimo.die.unifi.it
Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 03:05:44 -0700 (PDT)
To: may42@cosimo.die.unifi.it
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <19980704832AAA28582@127.23.8.238>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




100% ALL TEEN ADULT WEB SITE
FREE ACCESS FOR THE NEXT WEEK ONLY !!!

http://209.84.246.106/amateur/



CHECK IT OUT TODAY!!!!










From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: your_success@global.com
Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 05:48:01 -0700 (PDT)
To: @toad.com
Subject: FINAL NOTICE!
Message-ID: <199807041247.FAA11090@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


This is your WAKE-UP call...

        ...INTRODUCING "THE BREAKFAST CLUB"

A ONE-TIME $39 PURCHASE CAN CONCEIVABLY EARN              
OVER $100,000 ANNUALLY FOR ANYONE WHO WILL 
WORK THIS PROGRAM!

DID I SAY WORK?  HA!      ...LET'S CHECK IT OUT!!!

What you are holding in your hand is perhaps the most exciting networking                             
opportunity to come down the pike, EVER!

There are numerous reasons why this is so, but lets first look at the most obvious....                   
... 30 BOXES OF CEREAL FOR $39,00........

The vehicle for this outstanding bargain is a coupon book with 30 vouchers, each                  
good for a box of your favorite Name Brand cereal delivered to your door with no                
shipping charges.

That translates into the lowest price for Brand Name Cereal on the 
planet! Period!!

Couple this with a networking opportunity using the most advanced compensation                   
plan in the industry, namely a 3 X 5 forced matrix with double matching bonus,                   
and it's a can't miss!!!!

Here are some other reasons that even for non-networkers spell BIG BUCKS!

1) A $39 one time purchase, one of the lowest in the industry.

2) Product recognition! A product almost everyone in the country is already                              
using, and paying too much for.

3) Mass appeal. Networkers have been searching for years to find a product                          
that would appeal to the masses. Breakfast cereal is as good as it gets! Our own  
local study showed 65 interested people out of 80 interviews! Many signed up        
on the spot!!!                                                                                                                     

4) Finally a product in MLM that offers real savings! The average box of cereal 
costs over $3 in the store, with many topping the $4 mark. Do the math. With our 
deal, the price for any cereal delivered to your door is $1.62. Yes, that's right, 
one dollar and sixty-two cents!!


WELL, THERE IT IS... ...I CAN ONLY SAY THAT THIS 
ONE IS GOING TO GO INTO HYPER-DRiVE IN A BIG 
HURRY, SO YOU BETTER GET YOUR TICKET AND 
HANG ON!!!   SIGN UP BELOW!

*********************************************************

"THE BREAKFAST CLUB"
7267 AIRPORT ROAD
BATH, PA 18014


WHAT IS THE "BREAKFAST CLUB"?

"The Breakfast Club" is a network marketing company combining a substantial 
savings on a commodity which, almost all Americans use, with the income potential of 
network marketing!

This commodity is the Breakfast Cereals which we are all familiar with,

PRODUCT:

The current product is a "Name Brand" cereal coupon book. This coupon book 
offers "BIG" savings on your favorite cereals. Almost any cereal, delivered to your 
door with no shipping charge to you, for the low price of $1.62 (this price includes 
the cost of the coupon and the cost of the postage to send the order, blank for 
redemption)

EVEN CEREAL THAT COSTS OVER $4.00 IN THE GROCERY STORE 
CAN BE DELIVERED TO YOUR DOOR FOR $1.62

The coupon book contains 30 coupons, each good for a box of name brand cereal. 
What this means is that this is a guaranteed value of up to $120.00 for the cost of 
only $39 to you!

HOW DO I TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THIS OPPORTUNITY?
The answer is simple, as is the entire concept of this program. Just fill in the 
application / order form and send it with the proper payment to the address above. 
We will ship your coupon book to you within a few days, and you can send for your 
first box of cereal.

WHAT IS THE COMPENSATION PLAN?
Again, the answer is simple.

The compensation plan is a 3 x 5 forced matrix, with a double matching bonus 
feature, The matching bonus is earned when you personally sponsor 3 people, and the 
double matching feature kicks in when your second level is completed, not necessarily 
personally sponsored. This means that you would have 12 total people on these two 
levels in your organization. You would then match the matrix checks, of the three 
people whom you personally sponsored, and the matrix checks of those who they 
personally sponsored.

There is $1 on each level of the matrix which means that a complete matrix has a 
potential payout of $363, which is the total number of people. Therefore, the 
matching bonus feature gives you 3 more matrix payouts, or an additional $1,089 
when your personally sponsored people complete their matrix. The double match 
bonus will give you any number of additional matching checks, based entirely on the 
number of people that your personally sponsored people sponsor. Note: You match 
only the matrix payout of your sponsored and their sponsored. You never match a 
matching bonus!

The potential with this plan is awesome. If you follow this scenario you will see that 
the more people whom you sponsor, and whom they sponsor, will give you matching 
check after check, with almost no limit if you continue to sponsor. This program 
could literally pay out over $100,000 on only a $39 purchase.


"THE BREAKFAST CLUB"

TERMS AND CONDITIONS

1) The price for the coupon book is $39.00. The coupon books are numbered and 
registered, and tracking goes into effect at first redemption.

2) The accepted form of payment will be by money order only. No personal checks, 
no credit cards. All payments sent other than money order will be returned.

3) The compensation plan is a 3 x 5 forced matrix, there will be no placement. The 
computer will fill automatically left to right, based on personal sponsorship. This will 
allow for significant spillover.

4) This program will be basically a mail-order program. There will be no customer 
service by phone. Any questions which you may have which are not answered by this 
document you may address to the Company by mail or by fax. We will respond in the 
same manner.

5) Since there is no placement, a genealogy report will only be important when you 
receive a check. You will automatically receive one when a check is cut for you.

6) "The Breakfast Club' will calculate revenue share weekly, and pay weekly. The 
week shall run from Monday through Saturday, and the revenue share will be 
calculated on Monday for the previous week's activity.The check will be cut and 
mailed by Wednesday every week.

7) A check will not be printed until the accrued revenue share is at least $12.00. 
There will be a charge of $2.00 assessed for each check. This will defray the cost of 
the check, bank charges, and the cost of the genealogy which will be sent with each 
check. Therefore, on accrued revenue of $12.00, after the charge, the check will be 
$10.00. This charge will remain at $2.00 as long as the genealogy is only one page. 
As your organization grows, the charge will be .50 for each additional page.

8) You will receive complete instructions on how to use the program, and how to 
order your cereal with your kit.

9) Our refund policy is very simple. We have a revenue share program, so money 
earned is not commission but profit sharing. This means that if you wish to leave the 
program at any time within 90 days, the following rules apply:

a) The coupon book must be in salable condion, with NO coupons missing.

b) The book registration fee and shipping is NOT refundable, totaling $9.00. Refunds 
will be $30.00 only.

c) If you have been paid any revenue share money, that will be deducted also. If you 
have been paid more money than the cost of the book(s), there will be no refund.

d) After 90 days, there is no refund.

10) There will be company sponsored conference calls. Times and phone numbers 
will be announced when you receive your kit.

I 1) You must sign and return this "Terms and Conditions' document with your 
application/order form.

12) I have read and fully understand the terms and condtions of "The Breakfast 
Club."

SIGNED____________________________  DATE________________

*******************************************************

"THE BREAKFAST CLUB" 

 "CEREAL FOR LESS" ORDER FORM

7267 AIRPORT ROAD 
BATH PA 18014 
FAX 610 837-1589

NAME:_________________________________________________

PHONE #_______________________________________________

STREET________________________________________________

CITY_____________________ STATE_______ ZIP____________

YOUR SS#__________________ (needed for ID#-cannot issue              
checks without it)

SPONSORS NAME:  Front Desk Marketing
SPONSORS ID#:        11151

WE ACCEPT MONEY ORDERS ONLY
OTHER FORMS OF PAYMENT WILL BE RETURNED

PLEASE INDICATE QUANTITY OF BOOKS ORDERED BELOW.                          
(please refer to rules and regulations.)

REMIT AS FOLLOWS: QTY _____ NAME BRAND CEREAL COUPON 
BOOK(S) @$39.00 EACH (includes S&H & book registration fee)

TOTAL AMOUNT OF MONEY OPDER $_________
IMPORTANT: MONEY ORDERS SHOULD BE MADE PAYABLE TO:

			THE BREAKFAST CLUB


BRIEF LIST OF CEREAL BRANDS OFFERED:
GENERAL MILLS, KELLOGG'S, POST, QUAKER OATS,                   
AND RALSTON

COMPLETE LISTS WILL BE INCLUDED WITH YOUR       
CERTIFICATE ORDER

--------------------------------------------------------
REMEMBER 3 CERTIFICATE BOOKS ARE THE MAXIMUM 
NUMBER OF BOOKS FROM WHICH YOU CAN BE ACTIVELY 
REDEEMING CERTIFICATES AT ANY ONE TIME.
------------------------------------------------------

THERE ARE 75 CEREALS TO CHOOSE FROM PLUS YOU MAY WRITE 
IN A SELECTION NOT LISTED AND THE REDEMPTION CENTER 
WILL TRY TO ACCOMODATE YOUR REQUEST.

INCOME OPPORTUNITY OFFER REMINDER

DON'T FORGET, TO SHARE THIS OPPORTUNITY WITH OTHERS 
AND RECEIVE AN ON-GOING INCOME FROM THEIR PURCHASES 
YOU MUST INCLUDE YOUR SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER ABOVE.

PLEASE REMEMBER, WE ACCEPT MONEY ORDERS ONLY
AND YOU MUST SEND IN BOTH FORMS:

1. ORDER FORM WITH YOUR $39.OO MONEY ORDER

2. A "SIGNED" TERMS AND CONDITIONS FORM



MOST COMMONLY ASKED QUESTIONS ABOUT 
                 "THE BREAKFAST CLUB"

Q. How can anyone deliver breakfast Cereal to your door for this price? 
($1.62)
A. The cereal is merely a vehicle for advertising. With the cost of direct mail 
advertising skyrocketing, and the readerslip relatively low for what is considered by 
most to be junk mail, this method of lost leader marketing is extremely desirable. 
Because people are waiting for their cereal, and they will be looking for their next 
order blank, the readership of the piggy-back advertising in the box is very high. Due 
to this fact, advertisers are willing to pay handsomely for this type of direct mail 
program.

Q. Is that why I can only use one coupon at a time, and must wait for my 
cereal to arrive before I can order again?
A. Yes. The advertising would do little good for anyone, nor could the cost of the loss 
leader be amortized if too much of the advertisers material should go to the same 
address in too short a time.

Q. Wasn't this program tried before, like around two years ago? What 
happened to it then?
A- Yes, it was tied in late 1995 into early 1996. The firm that was behind the concept 
did not anticipate the overwhelming response which they received. Coupled with the 
fact that they did not have the advertising dollars in place that they represented, 
collapse was inevitable.

Q. Why is it any different now?
A. The Company that is running this campaign is fully aware of the importance of 
keeping up with the demand. So much so, in fact, they have already put the data 
processing in place to scan the coupons into the system instead of waiting until they 
are overwhelmed. Also, and more importantly, they have the contracts in place from 
many advertisers to offset the cost of delivering the cereal. In other words, they have 
enough advertising dollars to cover the cost of every delivery.

Q. What about the network marketing part of this program? Does "The 
Breakfast Club" have control, or will there be competition?
A- Not only does "'The Breakfast Club" have an exclusive network marketing 
contract, but we will be collaborating with The Majestic Group, owners of the cereal 
book, on future books. There is a very bright future ahead for our distributors.

Q. Why is there no telephone customer service provided by "The Breakfast 
Club" for its distributors?
A. It boils down to one word, COST! This is not a high ticket, and until other 
products are ready to offer to the distributor base, we must control the expense of 
operation. This is not a complicated business, and most questions can be answered 
by this document. However, we anticipate that there could be questions that we can 
not answer to a distributors satisfaction here, so we will answer questions either by 
fax, mail or on a live conference call which will be conducted one hour each day, 
Monday through Friday. The number and time for this call is at the end of this 
document.

Q. The compensation plan is a 3 x 5 forced matrix with a "double matching 
bonus" feature. What is a double matching bonus and how does it work?
A. Double matching bonus simply means that you match the matrix checks earned by 
the people whom you sponsor personally, and those who they sponsor as well. This, 
of course, depends on your reaching the criteria which determine whether or not you 
will earn matching and double matching bonus.


Q. What is the criteria to earn matching and double matching bonus, and how 
does it fit into the marketing plan?
A. The criteria for matching and double matching bonus is really very easy to 
understand, and not difficult to attain. In fact, the entire marketing plan is so simple 
you could explain it on a napkin in a restaurant. Here it is in a nutshell...... you sign up 
and purchase a coupon book for Name Brand Cereal. You personally sponsor 3 
who do the same and you qualify for matching bonus. Fill your second level, a total of 
9 more people, whether or not they are your personally sponsored, and you now 
qualify for double matching bonus.

Just by signing up and making your first purchase of a coupon book for $39, you are 
entitled to a revenue share of $1 per level, for each of 5 levels of purchasers just like 
yourself A 3 x 5 matrix has the potential when full to hold 363 customers, which will 
pay $363. Now here is where the fun starts. For every person whom you personally 
sponsor into the program you will match every revenue share check which they are 
paid, provided that you sponsor a total of 2 distributors personally. That means that if 
they fill their matrix, you will earn an additional check of $363. Here is the best part! 
If your personally sponsored distributor goes out and sponsors any number of other 
people, providing you meet the criteria for double match, you will be paid a revenue 
share equal to whatever they are paid, even if it is 5, 10, 50 or 100 people. This 
means that you can make many times the value of a full matrix in this program by 
sponsoring only 1 person who goes out and sponsors ma!
ny!! Do the math. Awesome!

Q. When will checks be issued?
A. We will caculate weekly, and pay revenue share weekly. The week will begin on 
Monday, and end on Friday. Checks will be cut and mailed by Wednesday every 
week.

Q. Why is there a charge for issuing checks?
A. Again the answer is COST. Because of the sheer number of checks which we 
anticipate sending out, we must make allowance for this expense. Remember, this is a 
low cost program with a relatively high revenue share potential. Consequently we will 
only send checks when they have calculated to be at least $12. After deducting the 
$2 check charge, we would be sending a net of $10. Also, since there will be a 
genealogy sent with every check, this charge will help cover it as well. Note: the 
charge will remain $2 as long as the genealogy is only one page. It will be an 
additional .50 for every page after the first.

Q. Are we required to sign and send in the "Terms and Conditions" 
document?
A. Yes, The terms and conditions of our program will be upheld, and it is important 
that you agree to them in writing or your application will not be accepted. Note: the 
newer application has a disclaimer which states that you have read and agree to the 
terms and conditions. This will allow someone to fax an application to a third party 
before they send in the actual signed document to the Company.

Q. What about our identification number for sponsoring purposes?
A. We will use your Social Security Number as your temporary ID# A new number 
will be issued to you and sent with your book. Our program can identify you either 
with your temporary number or your company issued number, so you can sponsor 
even before you actually receive your new number,

LOOK FOR YOUR ID# ON YOUR ADDRESS LABEL AND ON YOUR                              
WELCOME LETTER.


1) No applications will be accepted without the signed terms and       
conditions document, unless a new form is used and the disclaimer is signed.

2) No applications will be accepted if all the information is not present to allow 
proper entry into the computer system. Any applications received with incomplete 
information will be returned to sender. We are not mind readers nor are we 
omniscient. Also, applications which are illegible will be returned. We will not guess 
what is written on them.

3) Since there is no placement in this program there will be no orphan file created by 
placement problems. However, there could be occasions when someone sends in an 
application expecting their sponsor to do likewise, but he or she does not. We will 
hold the appplication for 5 business days, and if the sponsor application does not 
materialize, we will return the orphan application back to the sender.

4) Another situation which could sometimes happen is mail being lost. Here again, if 
the sponsor application does not arrive within 5 business days, we will be forced to 
return the orphan application.

5) We will always attempt to answer all questions in a timely and diligent fashion. 
However, we anticipate rapid growth and understand that there will be times when 
we cannot. We encourage you to get on the conference calls, or turn to your upline 
whenever you need information that you carmot get from the Company.

6) We will absolutely not tolerate any misrepresentation of our products or our 
program from any distributor. This will be grounds for immediate termination          
and loss of any revenue share.

7) Whenever we are about to release a new product into the matrix, we will notify 
everyone at least a month before. This notification will be as an announcement in   
your check envelope, with your cereal delivery, or as a fax on demand document.

8) Revenue share will only be paid on a product if you yourself own it. In other 
words, as we release different products into the matrix, if you do not own that 
product, you will not earn revenue share on it from downfine purchases. Remember, it 
is not a requirement to own all our products, but it will be your decision as to whether 
or not you wish to earn additional revenue share based on the new products,

9) You may note that on your genealogy reports, persons whom you sponsored 
yourself may show up as being sponsored by someone else. That is not a mistake in 
the program! In order for the computer to place people in the matrix, it must assign 
sponsorship. This does not take sponsorship away from you, but is merely the way in 
which the computer builds the matrix. When this occurs, you now become the 
enroller, which keeps the credit for personal sponsorship with you, where it belongs.

GOOD LUCK AND SEE YOU AT THE TOP!






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC 
Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 06:34:50 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: CypherPunks CensorShip Crisis II - SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS!!!
Message-ID: <009C8A9E.8996F560.3@west.cscwc.pima.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Beyond The Valley Of The Planet Of The Return Of The Son 
Of The Uncle Of The Mother Of All Censorship Crisies II
              SPACE ALIENS HIDE M DRUGS!!!
              _____________________________
                                                                            
     * To: cypherpunks@toad.com
     * Subject: Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC
       : Re: Army of Dog
       SPACE ALIENS HIDE M DRUGS!!!
     * From: one4evil@juno.com (Nalus Optic)
     * Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 10:49:09 -0700
     * Sender: owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM

I was asked to forward this message to the Cypherpunks list by Linda
Reed...Who sent it to me as a responce to one of my e-mails...I know that
by doing so, I risk being kicked, stomped, beated siverly amongst the
neck and shoulders, and even flamed...But I think so many of us are not
looking at the true messages involved in these 'spams'.  Reed is makeing
several REALL good points...Given, Reed does rant a bit...And some of
what is writen is just so much bullshit...But all of it, taken in
context, is Truth (TM)...
Let me make a suggestion to Reed and all others involved...There is a
time and place for everything...The time for rEvolution, as Reed puts it,
is _NOW!_ However, Cypherpunks is not the place...So does anyone know of
any good e-lists that would love to get the ALIANS posts?  Maybe your
five minute's of thought on a way to help Reed will make everyone happy,
Vs the hours some of us are spending complaining about the damn thing.

[Gnat From The Author:

 As the Author, We personally believe that 
 should forcefully unsubscibe itself from the CypherPunks 
 Distributed Node Mailing Lists, since it is the website
 which the Author is currently using to read the list posts.
 As well, We feel that Linda Reed 
 should take steps to block her email account from being sent
 to any site on the InterNet, as it is being used, with or
 without her consent, to generate UCE/SPAM.
 In addition, We feel that all CypherPunks Distributed Node
 Mailing List members should forcefully unsubscribe themselves
 from the lists, as spammers, since it is enevitable that there
 is someone on the list who considers their posts irrelevant,
 off-topic, or SPAM, at one point or another.

 In the future, the Author would be happy to provide a filtered
 version of the CypherPunks Distributed Node Mailing List which
 would be distributed freely to all CypherPunks whose non-union
 dues are currently paid up to date.
 The filtered version would contain complete copies of all posts
 routed through the current CypherPunks Distributed Mailing List
 Nodes, without any deletions or censorship, in accordance with
 CypherPunks Goals and Traditions.

 For a slight extra fee, the Authors would also be happy to 
 provide special, Enhanced Editions of the CypherPunks Filtered
 Mailing List:
 1. ASCII Art Edition: Containing classic reprints of Timmy 
   C. Mayonnaise ASCII-Art SPAMS, complete with Forged Digital
   Signatures of Dr. Dimitri Vulis, KOTM, along with a Certificate
   of Genuine Authenticity Digitally Signed with the Electronic
   Forgery Foundation's Pretty Lousy Privacy Key.
 2. Censorship Crisis II Edition: Offers the convenience of
   recreating the original posts for and against censorship
   of the CypherPunks list, substiuting the names, email
   addresses and digital signatures of current list members,
   saving list members hours of rehashing old issues, while
   maintaining the emotionally volatile atmosphere regarding
   an argument that is logically ridiculous to argue about
   in the first place, given the nature of the CypherPunks 
   list.
    !!!PLUS!!! As An Added Bonus: (At No Extra Charge!)
   * A complete pro-censorship and anti-censorship thread
    dealing specifically with the SPAMing of SAHMD chapters
    to the CypherPunks list, with each post written and
    autographed the the Author HimOrHerSelf!
   * A Classic Collection of past posts by both legendary
    and long-forgotten CypherPunks, quoting and misquoting
    the "Doomed to Learn From the Mistakes of the Past" 
    (or whatever) quote.(A 5MB package, by itself, alone!)
   * A Superb Collection of Lame-AND/OR-Offensive Posts
    categorized under such headings as UNSCRIBIBVE, LAME,
    RACIST, CHILDISH, 'I BROKE PGP!', 'NEW UNBREAKABLE
    ENCRPTION ALGORERHTHM',          , RE:          ,
    STUPID, AOL, 'I THINK WE SHOULD ALL SEND TEN COPIES
    OF THIS POST BACK TO DIMITRI', and one of the all-time
    favorites of many Veteran Elitist CypherPunks List
    Members, 'TEST'.
 3. Pre-Checked Archive Edition: Each post is marked with
   a special flag to indicate whether or not the post is
   duplicative of a subject discussed, or a point made by,
   Tim C. May at some time in the history of the CypherPunks
   list, as well as a flag indicating whether or not the
   post agrees with Mr. May's past theories and views, so
   that they can be efficiently deleted in order not to
   waste the reader's time with BadInformation, one way
   or the other.

  Those pre-dating their orders for an Enhanced Edition
  of the Author's Filtered CypherPunks Mailing List to
  December 7, 1989, or forging Tim C. May's digital
  signature to their order, will receive copies of
  Nalus Optic's coming post to list, whining about how
  HisOrHer original post *NEVER* called for censorship,
  Tim C. May's future reply that this is obviously the
  work of that asshole, Toto, again, Robert Hettinga's
  future post that he *loves* this list, another post
  from Tim C. May, obviously forged by Toto, saying that
  he can't find his shoes *or* his goddamn dentures, and
  a variety of future posts from various list members 
  stating:
  "Just ignore him."
  "Don't you people have delete keys?"
  "Happy Fourth of July!"
  "I'm putting Toto back in my KillFile!"
  "I never took him out of mine, I just read his posts
   by accident when I read all of the posts in my KillFile,
   to make sure I'm not deleting anything important."
  ""
  "Have a good Labor Day!"
  "Unscrrvive"
  "Unrivcribe cypherpunks "
  "Unsvribe  cypherpunks"
  "Uncribive cypherpunks"
  "Unsrivribe "
  "Merry Chrismas Everybody!"
  "Take me off this goddamn list!"
  "TAKE ME OFF THIS LIST! I MEAN IT!!!"
  "Happpy Holidays and a Happy New ear"
  "Please take me off this list, ok? Please, somebody?"
  "OK OU ASHOLES! IM GOING TO KEEP THIS UP UNTIL OU..."
  
 DISCLAIMER: The Author is in no way implying that those
 who do not wish to take advantage of this tremendous
 offer are not free to just contine their involvement in
 the Cypherpunks list and use methods of subscribing and 
 posting pretty much the same as they did before deleting 
 this offer without reading it.
 However, HeOrShe reserves the right to bill all who
 receive this offer the full amount of the CypherPunks
 current non-union dues, if this offer is not returned
 to the CypherPunks mailing list they received it from,
 in it's original condition, with full message headers,
 within thirty minutes or less of its original posting.]




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: puudio96@prodigy.com
Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 04:35:24 -0700 (PDT)
To: puudio96@prodigy.com
Subject: Earn a NO COST Pentium 266 Computer!! EVERYONE Approved!!
Message-ID: <199807044322XAA19326@power.interserver.com.ar>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




What are YOUR answers to these questions??


Afraid your credit wouldn't allow you 
to get the computer you want?


Have you been wanting a new computer,
but were wondering if you can afford it?  



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**  The Internet
**  Your Computer
**  Building your own web sites for 
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     and then selling them for a profit?


. but don't want to pay for those costly courses?


If you answered YES to one or more of these questions, then this is the
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Not only can you indulge yourself with a new computer (regardless of your
credit history)  
and provide yourself with ongoing, online education, 
you can also earn money doing so!!


Sound interesting???


HIT REPLY
and ask for more info!!! 


on this INCREDIBLE opportunity!!!!
Or Send Email To  
goodidea@dreamer.net


Everyone is accepted regardless of credit - 
even people who have filed bankruptcy!
Some specific Information on the computer itself...


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ALSO INCLUDES: NEC 1000 printer: 
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HIT REPLY AND ASK FOR MORE INFO!!!
Or send email to  
goodidea@dream




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Global Web Builders 
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 19:50:49 -0700 (PDT)
To: (Recipient list suppressed)
Subject: One Nation web site temporarily off-line
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980704020846.0072baac@mail.ipswich.gil.com.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Dear One Nation supporter in NSW

You will note from my email that I am not using the normal gwb@gwb.com.au
address.

Last night at about 6.30pm Optus "pulled the plug" on my Internet Service
Provider (Pronet) who I have NOW been informed are facing financial
difficulties. (I only found out today after making enquiries as to why I
could not access my ISP.)

This has caused all contact with the "gwb" web sites (which includes One
Nation) to be cut off. If you try to contact them you will come up with a
"DNS error".

I am currently relocating the web site and will be seeking a new ISP who can
offer One Nation "the best deal". This will take some time, perhaps a few
days, and in the mean time I apologise for any inconvenience.

As soon as the One Nation website is up and running I will advise you.

Please note that the Internet address will remain the same as it was.

In the meantime be assured that One Nation being "off air" is not related to
any conspiracy, lack of support from our part or any other misinformation
that might be fed to you through the media.

As always GWB stands 100% behind Pauline Hanson and her competent team.

GWB



Scott Balson





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 12:58:21 -0700 (PDT)
To: ukcrypto@maillist.ox.ac.uk
Subject: NSA , FBI, and Sandia labs - and stolen weapons
Message-ID: <359E887A.6EDB@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Saturday 7/4/98 1:20 PM

Laszlo Baranyi

I read http://www.qainfo.se/~lb/crypto_ag.htm

I will look in my files for a paper published in the Association
of Computing Machinery authored by G. J. Simmons on the COVERT CHANNEL.  
Then e-mail you an exact reference.

Information FORCED on me by Sandian James Gosler funded by NSA was about
the COVERT CHANNEL.  Similar to what I read at
http://www.aci.net/kalliste/ricono.htm

Gosler made the point to us that the 'black hats' could spike a device,
either through hardware or software.

A 'white hat' group  could not discover how the covert channel worked
[was spiked].

Gosler later wanted to assign me to an NSA project. I refused. I would
not sign the required papers - which effectively makes the signer give
up their civil rights.

See http://www.qainfo.se/~lb/crypto_ag.htm
 
 RIGGING THE GAME" Baltimore Sun, December 10, 1995. This article can be
ordered on-line
 http://www.sunspot.net/archive/search/

for details what NSA requires employees to sign.

Sandia reassigned me to break electronic locks for the FBI.
http://www.fbi.gov/
and http://www.fbi.gov/fo/nyfo/nytwa.htm 

I attach results, which the FBI blieves is SECRET/NSI, on how to
counterfeit Wiegand wire access 
credentials funded by the FBI.

Perhaps the following quotation and reference might be valuable to
you.

             Spy agencies are also dabbling in hacker warfare.  The 
             National Security Agency, along with top-secret
intelligence 
             units in the Army,  Air Force, has been researching 
             ways to infect enemy computer systems with particularly 
             virulent strains of software viruses that already plague
home 
             and office computers.  Another type of virus, the logic
bomb, 
             would remain dormant in an enemy system until a
predetermined 
             time, when it would come to life and begin eating data. 
Such 
             bombs could attack, for example, a nation's air-defense
system 
             or central bank.  The CIA has a clandestine program that 
             would insert booby-trapped computer chips into weapons
systems 
             that a foreign arms manufacturer might ship to a
potentially 
             hostile country - a technique called "chipping".  In
another 
             program, the agency is looking at how independent
contractors 
             hired by arms makers to write software for weapons systems 
             could be bribed to slip in viruses. 
 
             "You get into the arms manufacturer's supply network, 
             take the stuff off-line briefly, insert the bug, the let it
go 
             to the country," explained a CIA source who specializes in 
             information technology.  "When the weapons system goes into
a 
             hostile situation, everything about it seems to work, but
the 
             warhead doesn't explode." 
 
              
             weapons may be even more exotic than computer viruses. 
             Los Alamos National Laboratory in New Mexico has developed
a 
             suitcase-sized device that generates a high-powered 
             electromagnetic pulse.  Commandos could sneak into a
foreign 
             capitol, place the EMP suitcase next to a bank and set it
off. 
             The resulting pulse would burn out all electronic
components 
             in the building. ... 
 
        [TIME, August 21, 1995, by Douglas Waller] 

The US was super-concerned when stinger missiles, AFTER THE US GAVE THEM
TO THE AFGHANIS, that the stingers might be used against the US.  

So the idea is to spike weapons so that the US remains in ELECTRONIC
CONTROL - if physical
control is lost.  

There are, of course, hazards in powering-up a stolen foreign weapon.

My wife Patty [Implementing Basics : How Basics Work William H. and
Patricia Payne / 
Published 1982 http://www.amazon.com]and I were in Zurich in April 
1997.  

I spoke to Hans Buehler on the phone from the airpont.

Buehler gave me ideas on how to get my case settled TOO.

I JUST WANT MY MONEY AND OUT OF THIS MESS! 
http://www.jya.com/sec062998.htm

Best.   And I look forward to reading more about what you discover.
bill

http://www.apcatalog.com/cgi-bin/AP?ISBN=0125475705&LOCATION=US&FORM=FORM2

http://www-hto.usc.edu/software/seqaln/doc/html/gfsr.3.html

Coauthor Lewis in the above is one of my former MS and PhD students in
computer science.

http://www.friction-free-economy.com/


Counterfeiting Wiegand Wire Access Credentials
     
                                   Bill Payne
     
                                 October 16,1996
     
                                    Abstract
     
                  Wiegand wire access credentials are easy and
                  inexpensive to counterfeit.
     
        Access Control & Security Systems Integration magazine, October
        1996 [http://www/securitysolutions.com] published the article,
     
             Wiegand technology stands the test of time
     
             by PAUL J. BODELL, page 12
     
             Many card and reader manufacturers offer Wiegand (pronounced
             wee-gand) output.  However, only three companies in the
             world make Wiegand readers.  Sensor Engineering of Hamden
             Conn., holds the patent for Wiegand, and Sensor has licensed
             Cardkey of Simi Valley, Calif., and Doduco of Pforzheim,
             Germany, to manufacture Wiegand cards and readers. ...  A
             Wiegand output reader is not the same thing as a Wiegand
             reader,  and it is important to understand the differences.
     
                In brief, Wiegand reader use the Wiegand effect to
             translate card information around the patented Wiegand
             effect in which a segment of a specially treated wire
             generates an electronic pulse when subjected to a specific
             magnetic field.  If the pulse is generated when the wire is
             near a pick-up coil, the pulse can be detected by a circuit.
             Lining up several rows of wires and passing them by a cold
             would generate a series of pulses.  Lining up two rows of
             wires - calling on row "zero bits" and the other "one bits"
             - and passing them by two different coils would generate two
             series of pulses, or data bits.  These data bits can then be
             interpreted as binary data and used to control other
             devices.  If you seal the coils in a rugged housing with
             properly placed magnets, and LED and some simple circuitry,
             you have a Wiegand reader.  Carefully laminate the special
             wires in vinyl, and artwork, and hot-stamp a number on the
             vinyl, and you have a Wiegand card.
     
             IN THE BEGINNING
     
               Wiegand was first to introduce to the access control
             market in the late 1970s.  It was immediately successful
             because it filled the need for durable, secure card and
             reader technology.
               Embedded in the cards, Wiegand wires cannot be altered or
             duplicated. ...
     
        Bodell's Last statement is incorrect.
     
        Tasks for EASILY counterfeiting Wiegand wire cards are
     
        1    Locate the wires inside the card to read the 0s and 1s.
     
        2    Build an ACCEPTABLE copy of the card.
     
        Bodell's clear explanation of the working of a Wiegand card can
        be visualized
     
             zero row    |     |   |
     
             one row        |          |
     
             binary      0  1  0   0   1
             representation
     
        Solutions to Task 1
     
             A    X-ray the card
     
             B    MAGNI VIEW FILM,  Mylar film reads magnetic fields ...
                  Edmunds Scientific Company, catalog 16N1, page
                  205, C33,447  $11.75
     
        is placed over the top of the Wiegand card.
     
        COW MAGNET,  Cow magnetics allow farmers to trap metal in the
        stomachs of their cows.  Edmunds, page 204, C31,101 $10.75
        is placed under the card.
     
        Location of the wires is easily seen on the green film.
     
        Mark the position of the wires with a pen.
     
        Next chop the card vertically using a shear into about 80/1000s
        paper-match-sized strips.
     
        Don't worry about cutting a wire or two.
     
        Note that a 0 has the pen mark to the top.  A 1 has the pen mark
        at the bottom.
     
        Take a business card and layout the "paper match"-like strips to
        counterfeit the card number desired.
     
        Don't worry about spacing.  Wiegand output is self-clocking!
     
        Tape the "paper-match - like" strips to the business card.
     
        Only the FUNCTION of the card needs to be reproduced!
     
                                     History
     
        Breaking electronic locks was done as "work for others" at Sandia
     
        National Laboratories beginning in 1992 funded by the Federal
        Bureau of Investigation/Engineering Research Facility, Quantico,
        VA.
     
        The FBI opined that this work was SECRET/NATIONAL SECURITY
        INFORMATION.
     
        Details of the consequences of this work are covered in
     
             Fired Worker File Lawsuit Against Sandia
             Specialist Says He Balked When Lab Sought Electronic
             Picklock Software, Albuquer Journal, Sunday April 25, 1993
     
             State-sanctioned paranoia,  EE Times, January 22, 1996
     
             One man's battle,  EE Times, March 22, 1994
     
             Damn the torpedoes,  EE Times, June 6, 1994
     
             Protecting properly classified info,  EE Times, April 11,
             1994
     
             DOE to scrutinize fairness in old whistle-blower cases,
             Albuquerque Tribune, Nov 7 1995
     
             DOE boss accelerates whistle-blower protection,  Albuquerque
             Tribune, March 27, 1996
     
             DOE doesn't plan to compensate 'old' whistle-blowers with
             money, Albuquerque Tribune September 27, 199




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: mts2@volg15.mmtel.msk.su
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 22:18:46 -0700 (PDT)
To: Customer@yourplace.com
Subject: YOUR CLASSIFIED - AD / 333  NEWSPAPERS   !!!!!!!!!
Message-ID: <199807040527.OAA01790@axp3400.kyungpook.ac.kr>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



YOUR AD IN 333 NEWSPAPERS !!!!!!!!!!
***********************************************

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to lose.  Now, order our amazing classified ad method today !!!!!! 


                                PRINT ORDER FORM
Ship To:                    **************************
*********
NAME____________________________________________

ADDRESS________________________________________

CITY______________________________________________

STATE__________________    ZIP_____________________

E-MAIL__________________________________

Don't Delay,   ORDER TODAY!!!!!!!

**********************************************************************
Mail Payment  $17.00  CASH,  money order,  or check  TO:
********************
 
                                  INFORMATION, Ltd.
                                  P. O. Box  515019 
                                  St. Louis, MO 63151-5019  
                                  U.S.A.

WE will ship your complete KIT directly to you !!!!
 

**************************************************************
OPTIONAL / OVERNIGHT SHIPPING - ADD $15.00
**************************************************************
                          
Thank you for your kind attention, and have a nice day !!!



++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Admin
Internet Services
This message is not intended for residents in the 
State of Washington, screening of addresses has been done
to the best of our technical ability.
If you are a Washington resident or otherwise wish to be
removed from this list, go to global remove site if you want
your address removed from future mailing. 
http://209.84.246.162/remove.htm
 
This Global Communication has been sent to you by:
PAVILION INTERNATIONAL SERVICES
Offices:  London, Paris, Berlin, Hong Kong


















From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED/EUREKA! 
Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 19:52:34 -0700 (PDT)
To: All Eureka/Stuffed Subscribers: ;
Subject: Daily News Fri 3 Jul '98
Message-ID: <19980705021020.20755.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/html

New: STUFFED - the News & Babes Daily!

Click Here For STUFFED, The NEW Daily Tabloid
 News And Babes Color Supplement From Eureka!

Click here to read it: http://stuffed.net/98/7/3/



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED/EUREKA! 
Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 23:49:38 -0700 (PDT)
To: All Eureka/Stuffed Subscribers: ;
Subject: Daily News Sat Jul 4 '98
Message-ID: <19980705043205.15645.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/html

New: STUFFED - the News & Babes Daily!

Click Here For STUFFED, The NEW Daily Tabloid
 News And Babes Color Supplement From Eureka!

Click here to read it: http://stuffed.net/98/7/4/



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: mgraffam@mhv.net
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 05:51:13 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: corvette/BXA
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


For all those watching the watchers, BXA recently changed their
configuration. corvette.bxa.doc.gov is now known as jade.bxa.doc.gov.
The IP addresses are different, but look at the configuration.. looks
like they just swapped two machines:

$ ftp corvette.bxa.doc.gov
Connected to corvette.bxa.doc.gov.
220-Proxy first requires authentication
220 jade FTP proxy (Version 2.0) ready.
Name (corvette.bxa.doc.gov:anonymous):

$ ftp jade.bxa.doc.gov
Connected to jade.bxa.doc.gov.
220-Proxy first requires authentication
220 corvette.bxa.doc.gov FTP proxy (Version 3.2) ready.
Name (jade.bxa.doc.gov:anonymous):

Michael J. Graffam (mgraffam@mhv.net)
http://www.mhv.net/~mgraffam -- Philosophy, Religion, Computers, Crypto, etc
"..the isle is full of noises, sounds and sweet airs that give delight and
hurt not. Sometimes a thousand twangling instruments will hum about mine
ears, and sometimes voices.." Caliban, Shakespeare's "The Tempest"





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: rj5d@geocities.com
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 06:13:00 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: Llama al exterior a mitad de precio
Message-ID: <13579305_69336672>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




05/07/1998
You can read de same message in Spanish at the bottom
Ud. puede leer el mismo mensaje en Castellano donde finaliza en ingles.
LLamadas al exterior hasta 80% más baratas y gratis a los 0800
========================================================================
This FREE software as opposed to the other products, allows the user to call a normal telephone anywhere in the world realizing fantastic savings.
========================================================================
You call toll free numbers in the United States or Canada from anywhere in the world, free.

This software is the newest technological breakthrough in telecommunications that makes possible long distance calls from your computer to any telephone in the world. We are the representatives of a software that is worldwide leader and uses the most advanced Internet telephony system available today by a long shot.

Most communications applications over the Internet, allow voice and even video transmittal, require that both the originator and the recipient of the call have fast, multimedia-ready computers, connected to the Internet at the same time and running the same communications software. Products like Net Meeting and Internet Phone are very sophisticated, but are not telephony applications.

You can call anywhere in the world by means of a multimedia computer and a Dial-up Internet service. The call is initiated from your computer after you connect to your Internet Service Provider (ISP) and is then transmitted through the web into a telephony central switch in the US. The switch instantly and automatically completes the call via the US public telephony network and through it reaches its final destination. The result is a real-time call, uninterrupted and full-duplex.


What are the benefits?

It reduces the cost of long distance calls by as much as 95% or even 100% when dialing into a toll-free (1-800 or 1-888) number in the US and Canada. For more information please refer to our home page at:

http://members.tripod.com/~rksistemas   and  

http://www.visitweb.com/rksistemas

Rates are completely independent from the country of origin of the call. In fact, all calls originate in reality from the US, signifying that World Wide users will actually call the world using US rates, currently the most competitive in the world.

Any telephone in the world may be called via a computer and a modem. This renders PC to PC technologies useless since they require both users to be connected to the Internet, have multimedia computers, the same software running and meet in the same place at the same time.

Visit us and download free the software at:


http://members.tripod.com/~rksistemas   and  

http://www.visitweb.com/rksistemas

or send your mail for questions to   rksis@geocities.com

Thanks

=====================================================
SPANISH VERSION - SPANISH VERSION - SPANISH VERSION -
=====================================================
LLamadas al exterior hasta 80% más baratas y gratis a los 0800

żComo funciona ?     usalo y ahorrá  

El destinatario no tiene que estar usando su PC sino que llamás directo a su teléfono. Cualquier usuario de Internet, con una computadora multimedia, puede iniciar llamadas desde su PC a cualquier teléfono del mundo pero con tarifas que son increíbles.   
Esto no es la charla por voz en Internet. No hay que ponerse de acuerdo ni nada,  discás con la PC y listo, así de fácil suena el teléfono de quien estás llamando.
-------------------------------------------------------
ADEMÁS LLAMÁS GRATIS A TODOS LOS 0800 DE EE.UU Y CANADÁ
-------------------------------------------------------
Bajáte el software gratuitamente,  probálo y ya que estás consultá todos los servicios que ofrecemos

http://members.tripod.com/~rksistemas   y de

http://www.visitweb.com/rksistemas

Podes tener  "privacidad en tus llamadas",  porque a donde sea que llames, en nuestro país sólo queda registrada la llamada local a tu proveedor de Internet, y la llamada se origina desde EE.UU. a la tarifa más competitiva del mercado.

La tecnología de este software incorpora los más recientes avances técnicos en materia de comunicaciones. Para realizar una comunicación a cualquier lugar del mundo, te conectás a tu proveedor de Internet y mediante el software (que lo podes bajar gratuitamente de nuestra Web) te conectás a un servidor en Nueva Jersey y este, de manera automática e instantánea entrega la llamada a la red pública de teléfonos de los Estados Unidos. 

El destinatario no necesita tener una conexión a un proveedor de Internet

Para vos es tan simple que discás en la pantalla usando el software y se llega al destino final, el teléfono marcado. 

El resultado es una llamada en tiempo real, full-dúplex (doble vía: hablo y escucho a la vez) entre dos personas. 

Debido a que la seńal es enviada por el Internet en el primer tramo del trayecto, hasta llegar a la central, las tarifas se vuelven independientes del país de origen.   

Consultá los productos y servicios que ofrecemos y bajate el soft gratuitamente y probalo desde

http://members.tripod.com/~rksistemas   y de

http://www.visitweb.com/rksistemas

Por consultas:  e-mail:  rksis@geocities.com

Gracias.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Freedom
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 18:10:28 -0700 (PDT)
To: Freedom.AQVX@toad.com
Subject: Freedom Is Not Free! -PBKF
Message-ID: <199807060110.SAA03549@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


FREEDOM REQUIRES MONEY!!
I know what you are thinking "Another one of those Scams!" Well guess what? You're 
Wrong!  Have you ever invested in the stock market, gone into business for yourself, 
made a friendly wager on a game or played the lottery. I think that most of us have 
gambled on one thing or another. This is so easy! This is truly the easiest and most 
effective way of making money I've ever seen! YOU HAVE SO LITTLE TO LOSE AND SO 
MUCH TO GAIN! Please print this and read it carefully. You'll be glade you did!  
 $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

This is a , LOW-COST,PHENOMENON.
PRINT this letter, read the directions, THEN             
GET STARTED TODAY! 

You are about to embark on the most profitable and unique 
program you may ever see.  Many times over, it has 
demonstrated and proven its ability to generate large amounts 
of CASH. This program is showing fantastic appeal with a 
huge and ever-growing on-line population desirous of 
additional income.

This is a legitimate, LEGAL, money-making opportunity.  
It does not require you to come in contact with 
people, do any hard work, and best of all, you 
never have to leave the house, except to get 
the mail and go to the bank!

This truly is that lucky break you've been waiting for! 
Simply follow the easy instructions in this letter, 
and your financial dreams will come true! 
When followed correctly, this electronic, multi-level marketing program 
works perfectly... 100% OF THE TIME!

Thousands of people have used this 
program to:

Raise capital to start their own business
Pay off debts
Buy homes, cars, etc.,
Even retire!

This is your chance, so read on and get started today!
---------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------
OVERVIEW OF THIS EXTRAORDINARY 
ELECTRONIC MULTI-LEVEL MARKETING PROGRAM
----------------------------------------------------------------------
------
------

Basically, this is what we do:
We send thousands of people a product for $5.00 that 
costs next to nothing to produce and e-mail. As with 
all multi-level businesses, we build our business by 
recruiting new partners and selling our products.  Every 
state in the U.S. allows you to recruit new multi- level 
business online (via your computer).

The products in this program are a series of four business 
and financial reports costing $5.00 each.  Each order you 
receive via "snail mail" will include:

$5.00 cash
The name and number of the report they are ordering
The e-mail address where you will e-mail them the report they ordered.

To fill each order, you simply e-mail the product to the buyer. The $5.00 is yours!   
This is the EASIEST electronic multi-level marketing business 
anywhere! 

FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS TO THE LETTER AND BE PREPARED TO REAP THE 
BENEFITS!

                              ******* 
I  N  S  T  R  U  C  T  I  O  N  S
                              *******
This is what you MUST do:
1.	Order all 4 reports shown on the list below (you can't sell 
them if you 
don't order them).
For each report, send $5.00 CASH, the 
NAME & NUMBER OF THE  REPORT YOU ARE ORDERING, YOUR E-MAIL 
ADDRESS, and YOUR NAME & RETURN ADDRESS (in case of a problem) to the 
person  whose name appears on the list next to the report. 
MAKE SURE YOUR RETURN ADDRESS IS ON YOUR 
ENVELOPE IN CASE OF ANY MAIL PROBLEMS!
When you place your order, make sure you order each of the four reports.  You will 
need all four reports so that you can save them on your computer and resell them.
Within a few days you will receive, via e-mail, each of the four
reports. Save them on your computer so they will be accessible
for you to send to the 1,000's of people who will order them
from you.

2.	IMPORTANT-DO NOT alter the names of the people who are 
listed
next to each report, or their sequence on the list, in any way other
than is instructed below in steps "a" through "f" or you will lose
out on the majority of your profits. 

Once you  understand  the way this works, you'll also see how 
it doesn't work if you change it.
     
Remember, this method has been tested, and if you alter it, it will not work. 
( I talked to a friend last month who has also done this
program.  He said he had tried "playing" with it to change 
the results.  Bad idea.... he never got as much money as 
he did with the UN-altered version.  
Remember, it's a proven method!

a.	Look below for the listing of available reports.
b.	After you've ordered the four reports, take this advertisement 
and remove the name and address under REPORT #4. This person 
has made it through the cycle and is no doubt counting their 
50 grand!

c.	Move the name and address under REPORT #3 down to  REPORT #4.  
d.	Move the name and address under REPORT #2 down to REPORT #3.
e.	Move the name and address under REPORT #1 down to REPORT #2.
f.	Insert your name/address in the REPORT #1 position.


Please make sure you copy every name and address ACCURATELY!
3.	Take this entire letter, including the modified list of names, 
and save it to your computer.  Make NO changes to the instruction
portion of this letter.
  
4.	Now you're ready to start an advertising campaign on the
INTERNET!  Advertising on the 'Net is very, very inexpensive,
and there are 
HUNDREDS of FREE places to advertise. 
Another avenue which you could use for advertising is e-mail 
lists. You can buy these lists for under $20/2,000 addresses 
or you can pay someone a minimal charge to take care of it 
for you. 
     
BE SURE TO START YOUR AD CAMPAIGN 
IMMEDIATELY!
5.	For every $5.00 you receive, all you must do is e-mail them 
the
report they ordered.  THAT'S IT!
ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON ALL 
ORDERS!
This will guarantee that the e-mail THEY send out, with YOUR 
name and address on it, will be prompt because they can't 
advertise until they receive the report!

------------------------------------------

AVAILABLE REPORTS:

------------------------------------------

*** Order Each REPORT by NUMBER and NAME ***
Notes:

-  
ALWAYS SEND $5 CASH (U.S. CURRENCY) FOR EACH 
REPORT CHECKS NOT ACCEPTED
ALWAYS SEND YOUR ORDER VIA FIRST CLASS  MAIL 
Make sure the cash is concealed by wrapping it in at least two
sheets of paper  
On one of those sheets of paper, include: (a) the number & name
of the report you are ordering, (b) your e-mail address, and
(c) your name & postal address.

PLACE YOUR ORDER FOR THESE REPORTS NOW:
_______________________________________________________________

REPORT #1 "HOW TO MAKE $250,000 THROUGH 
MULTI-LEVEL SALES"
ORDER REPORT #1 FROM: 
MS
3919 BETHEL BLVD.
HOUSTON, TEXAS 77092 
			
			
			
                      
_________________________________________________________

REPORT #2 "MAJOR CORPORATIONS AND MULTI-
LEVEL SALES"
ORDER REPORT #2 FROM:
JD
311 SOUTH STATE RD. 301
BLUFFTON, INDIANA 46714

		        
                       
            

_____________________________________________________________________

REPORT #3 "SOURCES FOR THE BEST MAILING 
LISTS"
ORDER REPORT #3 FROM:
GS
3939 S. HARRISON STREET
FORT WAYNE, INDIANA 46807-2417
			 
			
_____________________________________________________________________
>
REPORT #4 "EVALUATING MULTI-LEVEL SALES 
PLANS"
ORDER REPORT #4 FROM:
SAM
P.O. BOX 13492
CHESAPEAKE,VA 23325-0492
                                                
                        
                 


_____________________________________________________________


HERE'S HOW THIS AMAZING PLAN WILL MAKE YOU              $MONEY$:

Let's say you decide to start small just to see how 
well it works. Assume your goal is to get 10 people 
to participate on you're first level. (Placing a lot of 
FREE ads on the Internet will EASILY get a larger response.) 
Also assume that everyone else in YOUR ORGANIZATION gets 
ONLY 10 downline members.  Follow this example to achieve 
the STAGGERING results below.

1st level-your 10 members with 
$5............................................$50
2nd level--10 members from those 10 ($5 x 100).....................$500
3rd level--10 members from those 100 ($5 x 1,000)............$5,000
4th level--10 members from those 1,000 ($5 x 10,000)...$50,000
THIS TOTALS: $55,550   

Remember friends, this assumes that the people who 
participate only recruits 10 people each.  Think for 
a moment what would happen if they got 20 people to 
participate! Most people get 100's of participants! 
THINK ABOUT IT!
Your cost to participate in this is practically 
nothing (surely you can afford $20). You obviously 
already have an Internet connection and e-mail is 
FREE! 


REPORT#3 shows you the most productive methods for bulk 
e-mailing and purchasing e-mail lists.  Some list & bulk 
e-mail vendors even work on trade!

About 50,000 new people get online every month!
******* TIPS FOR SUCCESS*******
TREAT THIS AS YOUR BUSINESS!  Be prompt, professional, and
follow the directions accurately.
Send for the four reports IMMEDIATELY so you will have them
when the orders start coming in because:
     
When you receive a $5 order, you MUST send out the requested
product/report to comply with the U.S. Postal & Lottery Laws, 
Title 18,Sections 1302 and 1341 or Title 18,  Section 3005 in 
the U.S. Code, also Code of Federal Regs. vol. 16, Sections 
255 and 436, which state that "a product or service must be 
exchanged for money received."

ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON THE ORDERS YOU RECEIVE.
Be patient and persistent with this program. If you follow the 
instructions exactly, your results WILL be SUCCESSFUL!
ABOVE ALL, HAVE FAITH IN YOURSELF AND KNOW YOU WILL
SUCCEED!
******* YOUR SUCCESS GUIDELINES*******
Follow these guidelines to guarantee your success:
If you don't receive 10 to 20 orders for REPORT #1 within 
two weeks, continue advertising until you do.  Then, a couple 
of weeks later you should receive at least 100 orders for 
REPORT #2.  If you don't, continue advertising until you do.


Once you have received 100 or more orders for REPORT #2, 
YOU CAN RELAX, because the system is already working for 
you, and the cash will continue to roll in!


THIS IS IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER:
Every time your name is moved down on the list, you are 
placed in front of a DIFFERENT report.  You can KEEP 
TRACK of your PROGRESS by watching which report people 
are ordering from you.  If you want to generate more income, 
send another batch of e-mails and start the whole process 
again!  There is no limit to the income you will generate 
from this business!


******* T  E  S  T  I  M  O  N  I  A  L  S *******
This program DOES work, but you must follow it EXACTLY!  
Especially the rule of not trying to place your name in a different 
position, it won't work and you'll lose a lot of potential income.  
I'm living proof that it works.  It really is a great opportunity to 
make relatively easy money, with little cost to you.  If you do 
choose to participate, follow the program exactly, and you'll be 
on your way to financial security. 
Sean McLaughlin, Jackson, MS
My name is Frank. My wife, Doris, and I live in Bel-Air, MD. 
I am a cost accountant with a major U.S. Corporation and I 
make pretty good money. When I received the program I 
grumbled to Doris about receiving "junk mail." I made fun of 
the whole thing, spouting my knowledge of the population 
and percentages involved.  I "knew" it wouldn't work. Doris 
totally ignored my supposed intelligence and jumped in with 
both feet. I made merciless fun of her, and was ready to lay 
the old "I told you so" on her when the thing didn't work... 
well, the laugh was on me!  Within two weeks she had 
received over 50 responses. Within 45 days she had received 
over $147,200 in $5 bills! I was shocked!  I was sure that I had 
it all figured and that it wouldn't work.  I AM a believer now. I 
have joined Doris in her "hobby."   I did have seven more years 
until retirement, but I think of the "rat race" and it's not for me. 
We owe it all to MLM.
Frank T., Bel-Air, MD
I just want to pass along my best wishes and encouragement to 
you.  Any doubts you have will vanish when your first orders 
come in. I even checked with the U.S. Post Office to verify that the 
plan was legal. It definitely is! IT WORKS!!!
Paul Johnson, Raleigh, NC
The main reason for this letter is to convince you that this system 
is honest, lawful, extremely profitable, and is a way to get a large 
amount of money in a short time. I was approached several times 
before I checked this out. I joined just to see what one could expect 
in return for the minimal effort and money required.  To my astonishment, 
I received $36,470.00 in the first 14 weeks, with money still coming in.
Sincerely yours, Phillip A. Brown, Esq.
Not being the gambling type, it took me several weeks to make up 
my mind to participate in this plan. But conservative that I am, 
I decided that the initial investment was so little that there was just 
no way that I wouldn't get enough orders to at least get my money 
back. Boy, was I surprised when I found my medium-size post office 
box crammed with orders!  For awhile, it got so overloaded that I had 
to start picking up my mail at the window. I'll make more money this 
year than any 10 years of my life before. The nice thing about this 
deal is that it doesn't matter where in the U.S. the people live. There 
simply isn't a better investment with a faster return.
Mary Rockland, Lansing, MI
I had received this program before. I deleted it, but later I wondered 
if I shouldn't have given it a try. Of course, I had no idea who to contact 
to get another copy, so I had to wait until I was e-mailed another program...
11 months passed then it came...I didn't delete this one!...I made more 
than $41,000 on the first try!!
D. Wilburn, Muncie, IN
This is my third time to participate in this plan. We have quit our 
jobs, and will soon buy a home on the beach and live off the interest on our 
money.  The only way on earth that this plan will work for you is if you 
do it. For your sake, and for your family's sake don't pass up this golden 
opportunity.  Good luck and happy spending!
Charles Fairchild, Spokane, WA

ORDER YOUR REPORTS TODAY AND GET STARTED ON YOUR ROAD TO 
FINANCIAL FREEDOM!
NOW IS THE TIME FOR YOUR TURN!

DECISIVE ACTION YIELDS POWERFUL RESULTS !!
DO IT TODAY AND YOU WILL SEE!!







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: awzoie@ixleic.com
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 19:46:13 -0700 (PDT)
To: @@althea.ucs.uwplatt.edu
Subject: YOUR INDEPENDENCE DAY ARRIVES IN 90 DAYS!!
Message-ID: <199807060241.AA20526@althea.ucs.uwplatt.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Are you interested in making a substantial part-time income working from the comfort of your home on your computer, never having to speak to anyone?  What if I told you this business only required one hour or less of your time each day?  And if you knew that you could secure your financial independence in the next 3-6 months, would you be interested?  I THOUGHT SO!  Listen to this...

If you have seen the chain letters that abound on the internet, you might think this is just another one of them.  Well, surprise!  It is NOTHING like them!  This program incorporates powerful marketing concepts that will make you HUGE amounts of money using an information product that is actually useful, unlike useless "reports" that are promoted in chain letter scams.  If making up to $100,000 or more in the next 6 months interests you, read on...  


"I'm Buying The Home of Our Dreams With CASH From The Proceeds I Received After Reading This Email!"

Hello!

My name is Marilyn Potter; I'm a 32 year-old wife, mother of two and a part-time medical transcriptionist.  Normally I delete all "junk" email immediately when I receive it and use my email account primarily for my business that I do at home.  I received a similar email numerous times over the past 2 years and deleted it every time.

I again received this email four months ago and since it had a catchy title I finally read it.  The concept was so compelling that I finally said, "OK, I give in. I'll give this a try.  Investing $40 is something I can afford and the chance to make some serious money would certainly not hurt either!"  I mailed four $10 bills right away and after receiving all four chapters of the informative "CREDIT SECRETS REVEALED" book, I paid a friend of mine a small sum of money to email my ad to 20,000 people.  The person who sent me the first chapter of the book also sent me a message that showed me how to market this valuable information with my computer for free.

I was hardly prepared for the results!  For the past 90 days I have received more money than I have made in the past 5 years combined.  The cash continues to roll in and at times I have to pick up my mail from the window at the post office because it won't fit in the medium-sized post office box I rented!  And the cash just continues to flood my mailbox!

My husband Jeff and I have been saving every penny over the past 7 years to purchase a new home for our family with a large downpayment.  Well, we now have enough money to purchase the home of our dreams with CASH!  We are also going to spend a MONTH in Hawaii to celebrate!  I owe it all to this incredible program that I finally decided to try after deleting it so many times.  

I promise you, if you follow the directions in this e-mail and be prepared to eventually set aside about an hour each day to follow up (and count your money!), you will make at least as much money as we did.  You don't need to be a whiz at the computer, but I'll bet you already are. If you can open an envelope, remove the money, and send an e-mail message, then you're on your way to the bank.  Take the time to read this so you'll understand how easy it is.  If I can do this, so can you!

Don't Delay, Start Living Your Dreams TODAY!!

Marilyn Potter 
 
The following is a copy of the e-mail I read:


********************************************************
THIS IS THE VERY LATEST AND MOST PROFITABLE MONEY-MAKING PHENOMENON YOU WILL EVER SEE.

Do NOT mistaken this for the many chain letter SCAMS that you may have seen lately.  This program offers VERY VALUABLE information in addition to the chance to make more money than you have ever seen before!

Read this email carefully and then print it out for reference.  Follow the simple directions and get started TODAY!

With this new program, your financial dreams can come true.  Are you sick of living paycheck to paycheck?  Would you like to be able to go on vacation wherever and whenever you like?  Does getting up on Monday morning without the stress of running off to work to a job that you dislike make you want to hear more about this business?  Your dreams CAN come true but you MUST take action in order for your life to change.  This COMPLETELY LEGITIMATE, LOW COST business can put you in the driver's seat financially for life.  Don't waste another minute living your life for other people.  Start TODAY living it for you and your family.

What's even better, this business NEVER requires you to talk to or come in contact with anyone and allows you to work from the privacy of your own home.  No more deadlines to meet!  No more worrying if your boss will still like you and keep you on his payroll for another month.  All you need to do is to go to the post office and pick up your money every day and then take it to the bank!  THAT'S IT!!  No hard work and you can feel good because you are providing VALUABLE information that EVERYONE NEEDS!!

This business is automatic and keeps money rolling in even if you are not working at it.  What could be better?  It is so simple to start and doesn't require you to train anyone.  This initial email does all of that for you!  When followed correctly, this electronic, multilevel marketing program works perfectly... 100% OF THE TIME!

Thousands of people have used this program to:

Buy houses for CASH
Pay off DEBT 
Put large downpayments on new homes 
Finance existing businesses 
Pay for education 
Raise capital to start new businesses 
Pay cash for new cars 
MUCH, MUCH MORE!!

You must be interested by now, or you wouldn't have read this far!  Now is your chance to discover financial freedom like you have never had before!  Keep on reading, you will not be sorry.

OVERVIEW OF THIS AMAZING PROGRAM:

Here is how it works:

We sell the book "CREDIT SECRETS REVEALED" via email to thousands of customers for a one-time total cost of $40.  Here is what makes this so exciting!  The book is divided into 4 chapters which are sold individually.  By purchasing the book and adding your name to the list, your name will move from the top to the bottom automatically and as it does the MONEY you make will increase exponentially.

As with all multilevel businesses, we build our business by recruiting new partners and selling our product.  Every state in the U.S. allows you to recruit new multilevel business online (via your computer).

Here is the difference between this exciting program and "chain letter" scams.  We market a book that contains VERY USEFUL information that EVERYBODY needs, not some useless report.  When you order this book (which retails for $72.95), you will find how:

* To find the LOWEST credit card rates 
* To manage your finances using credit cards to your advantage. 
* To obtain MULTIPLE credit cards 
* To consolidate your debt 
* To obtain credit if you are financially challenged 
* To get rich using other people's money 
* To avoid the pitfalls of credit card usage 
* To contact banks offering the best loan deals today 
* To obtain business loans 
* To find credit card companies offering matching airline miles 
* To be successful when applying for credit and how to get the highest possible limit.

Each order you receive via "snail mail" will include:

1) $10.00 CASH  2) The name and number of the chapter they are ordering  3) The e-mail address where you will e-mail them the chapter they ordered.

To fill each order, you simply e-mail the product to the buyer.  THAT'S IT! The $10.00 is yours! This is the EASIEST electronic multilevel marketing business anywhere!

READ THE FOLLOWING CAREFULLY AND THEN REAP THE HUGE REWARDS!


******* I  N  S  T  R  U  C  T  I  O  N  S *******

This is what you MUST do:

1. Order all 4 chapters shown on the list below (you can't
   sell the book if you don't order all 4 chapters).
     
     *  For each chapter, send $10.00 CASH, the NAME & NUMBER OF THE CHAPTER YOU ARE ORDERING, YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS, and YOUR NAME & RETURN ADDRESS (in case of a problem) to the person whose name appears on the list next to the chapter. MAKE SURE YOUR RETURN ADDRESS IS ON YOUR ENVELOPE IN CASE OF ANY MAIL PROBLEMS!
  
     *  When you place your order, make sure you order each of the four chapters.  You will need all four so that you will have the entire book to sell.

     *  Within a few days you will receive, via e-mail, each of the four chapters. Save them on your computer so they will be accessible for you to send to the 1,000's of people who will order them from you.  MAKE SURE TO PRINT THEM AS WELL IN CASE OF PROBLEMS!

2.  IMPORTANT-- DO NOT alter the names of the people who
	 are listed next to each chapter, or their sequence on
	 the list, in any way other than is instructed below in
	 steps "a" through "f" or you WILL LOSE OUT on the
	 majority of your profits!  Once you understand the way
	 this works, you'll also see how it doesn't work if you
	 change it. Remember, this method has been tested, and
	 if you alter it, it will NOT work.

    a.  Look below for the listing of chapters.

    b.  After you've ordered the four chapters, take this advertisement and remove the name and address under chapter #4. This person has made it through the cycle and is no doubt counting their $100,000!

    c.  Move the name and address under CHAPTER #3 down to CHAPTER #4.

    d.  Move the name and address under CHAPTER #2 down to CHAPTER #3.

    e.  Move the name and address under CHAPTER #1 down to CHAPTER #2.

    f.  Insert your name/address in the CHAPTER #1 position.

Please make sure you copy every name and address ACCURATELY!

3.  Take this entire letter, including the modified list of names, and save it on your computer.  Make NO changes to the instruction portion of this letter.  PRINT OUT THE LETTER AS WELL!
  
4.  Now you're ready to start an advertising campaign on the INTERNET!  Advertising on the 'Net is very, very inexpensive, and there are HUNDREDS of FREE places to advertise.  The marketing email you will receive with chapter 1 will explain internet advertising in greater detail.  BE SURE TO START YOUR AD CAMPAIGN IMMEDIATELY!

5.  For every $10.00 you receive, all you must do is e-mail them the chapter they ordered. THAT'S IT! ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON ALL ORDERS! This will guarantee that the e-mail THEY send out, with YOUR name and address on it, will be prompt because they can't advertise until they receive the chapter!

CHAPTERS TO PURCHASE

*** Order Each CHAPTER by NUMBER and NAME ***

Notes:

-  ALWAYS SEND $10 CASH (U.S. CURRENCY) FOR EACH CHAPTER. CHECKS NOT ACCEPTED -  ALWAYS SEND YOUR ORDER VIA FIRST CLASS MAIL -  Make sure the cash is concealed by wrapping it in at least two sheets of paper -  On one of those sheets of paper, include: (a) the number & name of the chapter you are ordering, (b) your e-mail address, and (c) your name & postal address.

PLACE YOUR ORDER FOR THESE CHAPTERS NOW:
_________________________________________________


CHAPTER #1  "SECRETS FOR THOSE WITH CREDIT CHALLENGES"
     
     ORDER CHAPTER #1 FROM:
	 
	 L&S Enterprises 
	 P.O. Box 11665 
	 Eugene, OR 97440

CHAPTER #2  "THE LOWEST RATES IN CREDIT CARDS TODAY"

     ORDER CHAPTER #2 FROM:

	 Unlimited Enterprises 
	 PO Box 1516 
	 Eugene, OR 97440
		
CHAPTER #3  "DEBT MANAGEMENT TO YOUR ADVANTAGE"

     ORDER CHAPTER #3 FROM:
	 
	 Bergman & Associates
	 PO Box 1083
     Oakridge, OR  97463

CHAPTER #4 "OBTAINING LOANS FOR YOUR BUSINESS"

     ORDER CHAPTER #4 FROM:
 
	 Dream Merchants
	 P.O. Box 1850 
	 Bonner's Ferry, ID 83805

 
_________________________________________________

***IMPORTANT!!***  YOU WILL RECEIVE A MARKETING LETTER WITH CHAPTER ONE.  YOU WILL NEED TO SEND THIS TO ANYONE WHO ORDERS CHAPTER ONE FROM YOU.  THIS WILL EXPLAIN HOW TO MARKET THIS BOOK EFFECTIVELY.

You might wonder how this program can make you so much money.  Well, keep reading and you will see how powerful this AUTOMATIC online business actually is!

Let's say you decide to start small just to see how well it works. Assume your goal is to get 10 people to participate on your first level. (Placing a lot of FREE ads on the internet will EASILY get a larger response.) Also assume that everyone else in YOUR ORGANIZATION gets ONLY 10 downline members.  Follow this example to achieve the STAGGERING results below.

1st level--your 10 members with $10.................$100 
2nd level--10 members from those 10 ($10 x100).....$1000 
3rd level--10 members from those 100 ($10 x 1,000).$10,000
4th level--10 members from those 1,000 ($10x10,000).$100,000
TOTALS        ----------->$111,100!

Remember, this assumes that the people who participate only recruit 10 people each. Think for a moment what would happen if they got 20 people to participate! Most people get 100's of participants! THINK ABOUT IT!

Your cost to participate in this is relatively very little (surely you can afford $40). You obviously already have an Internet connection and e-mail is FREE!


About 50,000 new people get online every month!

******* TIPS FOR SUCCESS *******

 *  TREAT THIS AS YOUR BUSINESS!  Be prompt, professional, and follow the directions accurately.

 *  Send for the four chapters IMMEDIATELY so you will have them when the orders start coming in because:

        When you receive a $10 order, you MUST send out the requested product to comply with the U.S. Postal & Lottery Laws, Title 18,Sections 1302 and 1341 or Title 18,  Section 3005 in the U.S. Code, also Code of Federal Regs. vol. 16, Sections 255 and 436, which state that "a product or service must be exchanged for money received."

 *  ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON THE ORDERS YOU RECEIVE.

 *  Be PATIENT and PERSISTENT with this program. If you follow the instructions exactly, your results WILL be SUCCESSFUL!

 *  ABOVE ALL, HAVE FAITH IN YOURSELF AND KNOW YOU WILL SUCCEED!


******* YOUR SUCCESS GUIDELINES *******

Follow these guidelines to guarantee your success:

If you don't receive 10 to 20 orders for chapter #1 within two weeks, continue advertising until you do. Then, a couple of weeks later you should receive at least 100 orders for chapter #2.  If you don't, continue advertising until you do.

Once you have received 100 or more orders for chapter #2, YOU CAN RELAX, because the system is already working for you, and the cash will continue to roll in!

THIS IS IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER:

Every time your name is moved down on the list, you are placed in front of a DIFFERENT chapter. You can KEEP TRACK of your PROGRESS by watching which chapter people are ordering from you.  If you want to generate more income, send another batch of e-mails and start the whole process again!  There is no limit to the income you will generate from this business!


******* T  E  S  T  I  M  O  N  I  A  L  S *******


My name is Scott Hampton and I live in Portland, Oregon.  I am an airline pilot and make very good money doing what I do.  Unfortunately I have built up a HUGE debt load from poor business transactions over the past 5 years.  I am now living paycheck to paycheck even though I make over $60,000 per year as a pilot.  I received this email approximately 6 months ago and decided to try it.  I promptly ordered the useful book "CREDIT SECRETS REVEALED" and began marketing it aggressively.  I was surprised when I found my post office box filled with over 300 orders in less than 30 days.  Over the course of the next 3 months I have personally made $113,540!  I have been able to pay off my debts quickly and have taken a much needed vacation.  The money continues to roll in and I am preparing to do another mailing in about 30 days.  All I can say is that I was skeptical but now I am a believer!

Scott Hampton, Portland, Oregon



I received this email about 1 year ago and immediately tossed it out stating to my wife that I was going to track down the person who sent it to me and give them a piece of my mind.  I forgot about it and about 7 months later received it again.  However this time I was in very high debt because my son was just accepted to a prestigious school and the tuition was astronomical.  I viewed this opportunity differently and decided to try it.  I figured I could certainly afford the $40 and had little to lose.  Well, I am pleased to say that my son now has a "free" education as a result of this incredible program.  I have never seen anything like it in my life.  Routinely my PO box has 50-100 letters in it at a time.  You MUST try it to believe it.  It is like opening a present every day!

Walter Hickman  Denver, Colorado



My wife and I have been married for 3 years now and we just had our second child Heather.  We have been living in a 700 square foot apartment with very basic living necessities.  We are both working and making ends meet is nearly impossible.  My school bills were nearly $30,000 and the monthly payment was making it hard to find money to buy food.  In addition to that, I was spending my 12 hour workdays away from my family, putting a strain on them.  Late one evening about 10 months ago I received this email.  I felt things could not get much worse and decided to at least give it a try.  I mailed for the book and began marketing as the instructions indicated.  Well, the rest is history.  We are now purchasing a new home with 30% down and I am happy to say that my school bill will be paid off in 3 months.  I owe it all to this incredible online MLM program!

Jeremy Bass, Providence, Rhode Island



Believe me, your efforts will certainly be rewarded with this easy, automatic money making wonder!  I started about 2 months ago and now have enough money to purchase a new Mercedes convertible.  I never thought I'd ever have enough money to purchase the car of my dreams but now I do.  This program has made me believe in MLM again!

Larry Lancaster, Dallas, Texas



All my life I have wanted to retire early.  Well, here I was, nearly 65 years old with not a cent in my savings account.  I had never been able to save money because of high medical bills that I have had since my bypass surgery.  I am in debt over $74,000 and must keep working the rest of my life.  My stressful corporate life lead to my heart problems and now I am stuck with paying my health bills.  Needless to say, I jumped at the chance when I read this email.  I mailed out the 4 $10 bills right away and started advertising when I received the complete book.  I guess all I can say is that I never dreamed I'd be in a position like I am now.  I have paid off my medical bills and have put over $30,000 into savings.  I plan to advertise this program about every 4 months and build up my savings account to over $500,000 so I can retire in about 3 years or less.  Believe me, without this amazing MLM program I'd never be in such an enviable position!

Frank Statton,  Los Angeles, California

My name is Mary and I have lived alone since my husband Allen passed away 3 years ago.  I have 4 young children and was constantly depending on Welfare and our church family to help get us through our financial crisis.  There was always more month at the end of the money and it seems like there was absolutely no way out of this disaster.  Even though all our friends have been wonderful to us I finally decided to do something about it.  I received this email on the computer I share with my friend.  She looked at it and told me it would never work.  I decided to at least see how it would work if I tried it.  That was about 5 months ago and my life will never be the same again.  After one month I was able to purchase a much needed Dodge Caravan for getting the kids around in.  I figured that was the end of the money but then the money volume went up by around 4 times!  I could not believe it!  We now are totally self sufficient and are purchasing a moderate sized home so we can!
 stretch out some.  The product it
self was very helpful and showed me how to improve my financial well-being considerably.  You have to try it to see that it works!  Go for it today!

Mary Romero,  Washington, DC


ORDER THE BOOK "CREDIT SECRETS REVEALED" TODAY AND GET STARTED ON YOUR ROAD TO FINANCIAL FREEDOM!

WITHOUT ACTION YOUR FUTURE CANNOT CHANGE!  TAKE CONTROL OF YOUR FINANCIAL FUTURE NOW!!







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED/EUREKA! 
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 18:08:51 -0700 (PDT)
To: All Eureka/Stuffed Subscribers: ;
Subject: Daily News Sun Jul 5 '98
Message-ID: <19980706000211.443.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/html

New: STUFFED - the News & Babes Daily!

Click Here For STUFFED, The NEW Daily Tabloid
 News And Babes Color Supplement From Eureka!

Click here to read it: http://stuffed.net/98/7/5/



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: fojiizoi93@prodigy.com
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 02:39:16 -0700 (PDT)
To: fojiizoi93@prodigy.com
Subject: Email 57 Million People for $99
Message-ID: <199807061031HAA6919@pimiaia5y.accuweb.nb.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


          57 MILLION
EMAIL ADDRESSES
FOR ONLY $99 


       
  You want to make some money? 


I can put you in touch with over 50 million people at virtually no cost.


Can you make one cent from each of theses names?


If you can you have a profit of over $500,000.00 



      That's right, I have 57 Million  Fresh  email 


addresses that I will sell for only $99. These are all 


fresh addresses that include almost every person 


on the Internet today,  with no duplications. They are 


all sorted and ready to be mailed.  That is the best 


deal anywhere today !  Imagine selling a product for 


only $5 and getting  only a 1/10% response.   That's  


$2,850,000  in your pocket !!! 
Don't believe it? People are making that kind of 


money right now by doing the same thing, that is 


why you get so much email from people selling you 


their product....it works !  I will even tell you how to 


mail them with easy to follow step-by-step 


instructions I include with every order.  These 57 


Million email addresses are yours to keep, so you 


can use them over and over and they come on 1 CD.  


This offer is not for everyone.


If you can not see the just how excellent the


risk / reward ratio in this offer is then there is 


nothing I can do for you. 


To make money you must stop dreaming 


and TAKE ACTION.



****************************************


THE BRONZE MARKETING SETUP


57,000,000 email addresses on CD


These name are all in text files


ready to mail!!!


$99.00


****************************************


THE SILVER MARKETING SETUP


57,000,000 email addresses on CD


These name are all in text files


ready to mail!!!       AND


8 Different Bulk email programs 


and tools  to help with your mailings


and list management.


$ 139.00


****************************************


THE GOLD MARKETING SETUP


VIRTUALLY EVERYTHING!!


57,000,000 email addresses on CD


These name are all in text files


ready to mail!!!       AND


8 Different Bulk email programs 


and tools  to help with your mailings


and list management.


             AND 


Over 500 different Business Reports


now being sold on the Internet for up to


$100 each. You get full rights to resell these reports.


With this package you get the email addresses, 


the software to mail them AND ready to sell  


information products.


AND ...... 


.. a collection of the 100 best money making


adds currently floating around on the Internet.


$ 189


****************************************


THE PLATINUM MARKETING SETUP


FOR THOSE READY TO "OWN THE NET"


57,000,000 email addresses on CD


These name are all in text files


ready to mail!!!       AND


8 Different Bulk email programs 


and tools  to help with your mailings


and list management.


             AND 


Over 500 different Business Reports


now being sold on the Internet for up to


$100 each. You get full rights to resell these reports.


With this package you get the email addresses, 


the software to mail them AND ready to sell  


information products.


AND ...... 


.. a collection of the 100 best money making


adds currently floating around on the Internet.


AND ......


FLOODGATE & GOLDRUSH FULLY REGISTERED SOFTWARE!!


This is the Number 1 most powerful mass mailing software in the world today.
There is nothing that can compare for speed, reliability, performance, and the
ability to use "stealth" functions.


This is the package that will allow you to use the net as your own personal
"money tree" at will!!!


$ 379


****************************************
SEVERAL WAYS TO ORDER !!!


IF YOU ORDER BY PHONE WE WILL SHIP YOUR CD CONTAINING THE 57 MILLION + NAMES
WITHIN 12 HOURS OF YOUR ORDER!!!


  1) WE ACCEPT:  AMERICAN EXPRESS OR
    
                               VISA <> MASTERCARD
     TYPE OF CARD  AMX / VISA / MC??_______________


      EXPIRATION DATE   ___________________________
     NAME ON CREDIT CARD________________________
     CREDIT CARD #________________________________
     BILLING ADDRESS ____________________________
     CITY_________________________________________
    STATE________________ZIP_____________________
   PHONE INCLUDE AREA CODE___________________
   
    EMAIL ADDRESS______________________________ 


        WE WILL BILL selected amount to your account plus the following
shipping costs


        SHIPPING  COST OF 3.85 FIRST CLASS MAIL


        SHIPPING COST OF  15.00  24 HOUR EXPRESS MAIL /  FEDERAL EXPRESS
        SALES TAX  added to AR residents 
  >>> Send correct amount in cash, check or money


order to:


  >>> FIRE POWER!!
  >>> 1320 N. "B" St., Suite 112-24
  >>> Fort Smith, AR  72901



   2) Send the same above requested credit card 


information to above address. 
   


   3) Call phone # 530-876-4293.  This is a 24 hour phone 


number to place a CREDIT CARD order.



FIRE POWER! is a private company and is not affiliated with, or endorsed by,
AOL, MSN, or any other Internet Service Provider.


Copyright 1998


All rights reserv




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 06:39:56 -0700 (PDT)
To: Digital Bearer Settlement List 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Hettinga's three laws of internet payment technology investment:

1. Geodesic, peer-to-peer transactions.
2. Three orders of magnitude cost reduction.
3. Nothing but net.

The application of the above to Cybercash, or SET, for that matter, I leave
as an exercise for the reader...

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga


--- begin forwarded text


Delivered-To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
X-Sender: believer@telepath.com
Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 13:53:40 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com
From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: "CyberCash can't oust credit cards"
Mime-Version: 1.0
Sender: owner-ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
Precedence: list
Reply-To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  Charlotte (N.C.) Observer (printing a Washington Post article)

Posted at 3:32 p.m. EDT Friday, July 3, 1998

 CyberCash can't oust credit cards

By MARK LEIBOVICH
The Washington Post

 WASHINGTON -- Two years ago, CyberCash
 Inc. walked tall as a pioneer in the seemingly vast
 frontier of Internet commerce. Today, the Reston,
 Va., firm and its software that lets merchants
 receive payments over the Internet offers a
 cautionary lesson in how social habits in the digital
 age are difficult to predict -- and dicey to stake a
 business on.

 On Tuesday, CyberCash announced that its
 second-quarter revenue would be below
 expectations, and that it would lay off 20 percent
 of its staff. The news sent its stock price into a
 decline -- the latest to strike the company. Once
 trading in the $60 range, it fell steadily this week to
 finish at $11.12 1/2.

 The hard times come even as CyberCash has tried
 to tone down its aspirations and diversify into a
 more conventional business, the processing of
 credit-card transactions in ordinary stores. The
 moral, said Ulric Weil, a technology analyst at
 investment bank Friedman, Billings Ramsey Co. in
 Arlington, Va., is: ``It's always hard to bet on the
 purchasing mores of consumers.''

 William N. ``Bill'' Melton, one of Northern
 Virginia's most accomplished technology
 entrepreneurs, envisioned a world of paperless
 purchasing when he founded CyberCash in August
 1994. In this world, Internet users would purchase
 goods and services using new ``virtual currencies,''
 such as CyberCoin, a CyberCash product that
 allows online purchases of up to $20 at a time by
 transferring funds from a credit card or bank
 account to an account that CyberCash oversaw.

 Few people bought anything with this virtual
 currency at first, but the market was patient. In the
 speculative world of Internet stocks, the potential
 for this commerce seemed limitless, and
 CyberCash was an instant Wall Street hit.
 Company shares, first offered to the public for $17
 in February 1996, were trading at more than $60
 by that June.

 But today, investors are tired of waiting. The
 predicted rush to electronic currency remains a
 mere trickle and what little there is generally uses
 plain-old credit card transactions, not a fancy new
 currency. For now, consumers shopping online
 merely want to use something they know and trust
 for payment, the credit card, not an entirely new
 form of currency.

 After this week's layoff, which involved about 20
 positions in the Washington area, CyberCash has
 about 200 employees. It remains unprofitable,
 having reported a loss of $5.67 million on sales of
 $1.14 million in the January-March quarter.

 If life weren't uncertain enough in Reston,
 speculation was rampant this week among analysts
 who follow the company that its low stock price
 was making it a ripe takeover target. These
 predictions were fueled further by the company's
 announcement Tuesday that its board of directors
 had adopted a new shareholders rights, or
 ``poison pill,'' plan, which companies typically use
 to deter unwanted takeover bids.

 In this case, if an outside entity attempted to
 purchase a stake in CyberCash that exceeded 15
 percent, the company board could invoke the
 provision -- at which point CyberCash
 shareholders would win the right to purchase
 company shares at a greatly discounted price. For
 a potential buyer, this would make CyberCash far
 more expensive.

 Russ Stevenson, CyberCash's general counsel,
 said the new provision was not related to the
 company's recent struggles, and that the timing of
 its adoption was coincidental. In a statement,
 CyberCash said the poison pill did not come in
 response to an acquisition proposal.

 James J. Condon, the company's chief operations
 officer, would not comment on whether
 CyberCash was in discussions to be acquired,
 citing a company policy ``never to comment'' on
 potential acquisitions. Melton, CyberCash's
 president and chief executive, was traveling
 Thursday and could not be reached for comment.

 CyberCash's recent woes stem in part from its
 May acquisition of ICverify Inc., an Oakland,
 Calif., company that makes credit-card processing
 software. CyberCash, which purchased ICverify
 for $57 million in cash and stock, hoped to
 complement its own technology with ICverify's
 more conventional ``point of sale'' software, which
 helps retailers process credit card transactions in
 shops and other commercial establishments.

 Entering the ``point of sale'' market was a way for
 CyberCash to hedge its bets against the uncertain
 future of electronic commerce, analysts said. ``This
 gave (CyberCash) a piece of the physical point of
 payment, as well as the electronic point of
 payment,'' said Scott Smith, an Internet commerce
 analyst at Current Analysis Inc. in Sterling.

 With the addition of ICverify, Condon said,
 CyberCash could now offer a full package of
 payment software to potential customers. They
 could now provide, say, a clothing retailer, the
 tools to process both in-person credit card
 transactions as well as Internet credit card
 purchases.

 But the ICverify acquisition proved a difficult
 transition. In recent months, analysts said, some
 customers of both companies have frozen their
 accounts, saying they were unsure about which
 transaction software they would deploy in the
 future.

 ``The ICverify transaction resulted in customers
 taking a close look at what direction they wanted
 to go in,'' said Weil.

 Condon said he expects this to be a short-term
 problem. He said he has spoken to several
 customers who plan to continue their accounts
 shortly.

 People who follow CyberCash generally agree on
 two things: that if the company can hang on long
 enough for electronic payments to become a
 widespread phenomenon, it will be well positioned
 to cash in.

 They also say the company has a strong, tenacious
 management team in place, led by Melton. ``He is
 the rock the company is built on, and he's
 committed to the company's success,'' said Smith.
 ``I don't see anyone there who is ready to back
 down.''

 But in the end, Weil said, the future of CyberCash
 might rest with forces beyond its control. ``You
 can't change the psyche of consumers,'' he said.
 ``CyberCash doesn't have that kind of influence.''
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only.
-----------------------





**********************************************
To subscribe or unsubscribe, email:
     majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com
with the message:
     (un)subscribe ignition-point email@address
**********************************************
www.telepath.com/believer
**********************************************

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The Philodox Symposium on Digital Bearer Transaction Settlement
  July 23-24, 1998: 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 07:40:52 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: NYT Hits GAK, Boosts GAKS
Message-ID: <199807061440.KAA21885@camel14.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


   The New York Times, July 6, 1998, p. A10.

   Editorial

   Privacy in the Digital Age

   As more and more Americans communicate and do business
   electronically, the fear is spreading that information they
   transmit can be seized by hackers or criminals and used for
   illegal or unsavory purposes. Fortunately, the technology
   to thwart such invasions already exists. It is called
   encryption, or the encoding of digital information to
   secure its privacy. But the Federal Bureau of Investigation
   is trying hard to prevent the growing use of encryption,
   both in the United States and abroad, because of fears that
   the protective technology itself will get into the wrong
   hands. That shortsighted stand will undermine efforts to
   protect commercial transactions and may actually hamper law
   enforcement rather than help it.

   The Clinton Administration's current policies toward
   encryption have been largely dictated by the F.B.I. and the
   Justice Department. These two agencies now block encryption
   makers from exporting their most advanced technology unless
   they agree to develop a method allowing law enforcement
   agencies to gain access to it. The method favored by the
   F.B.I. is known as the key escrow, in which the key to
   cracking a code is kept with a third party that could hand
   it over quickly if law enforcement agencies demanded it.

   But the key escrow method poses tremendous threats to
   privacy. There is a danger that access to keys for the code
   could be abused by law enforcement agencies and others.
   Worse, the United States would be required to share key
   escrow information with law enforcement agencies of other
   countries, and giving access to private communications to
   countries with poor human rights records could lead to
   crackdowns on dissidents using encryption for their own
   communications.

   According to industry officials, the export controls are
   already backfiring. More and more foreign companies are
   supplying encryption technologies without key escrow
   arrangements, making it virtually impossible for the F.B.I.
   to eavesdrop and stealing business from American firms. The
   growing foreign role diminishes the ability of the F.B.I.
   to demand new safeguards or ways to penetrate the
   communications of criminals who use encryption.

   President Clinton might normally be more sympathetic to
   concerns over maintaining privacy in the digital world. But
   since Attorney General Janet Reno has protected Mr. Clinton
   from an independent counsel on campaign finance, the White
   House is said to be loath to oppose either her or Louis
   Freeh, the F.B.I. Director, on this issue.

   On Capitol Hill, the debate over encryption has created
   some unusual political alliances. Many conservative
   Republicans have stood with leaders of the high-tech
   industry to oppose any kind of ban on encryption within the
   United States and to support a loosening of export controls
   on encryption technology. It has been odd to see Trent
   Lott, the Senate majority leader, and Dick Armey, the House
   majority leader, stand with civil libertarians against the
   demands of the F.B.I. But the F.B.I. is not without
   influence. House Speaker Newt Gingrich, more friendly to
   the agency, has prevented a bill encouraging greater use of
   encryption from coming to a vote in the House.

   The concerns of law enforcement agencies are legitimate.
   But smart criminals are already using encryption, some of
   which is readily available on the Internet. That was the
   message conveyed only a few weeks ago by such unlikely
   allies as Bill Gates of Microsoft and Jim Barksdale of
   Netscape, who are on opposite sides in the Justice
   Department's antitrust lawsuit against Microsoft but agree
   on this issue.

   The F.B.I. should give up its losing fight against
   encryption and work with industry to develop new means to
   catch criminals who use it. One approach under discussion

   would be to develop software technology that could be
   surreptitiously placed in a suspect's computer to capture
   keystrokes before they are encrypted. Any such operation
   would have to be carried out under strict court control as
   the electronic equivalent of a search warrant. But law
   enforcement agencies have to find a legal and ethical way
   to stay ahead of technology, rather than stand in the way
   of it. Trying to block advances in the digital age is
   futile.

   [End]







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 07:50:40 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Gov Access to Key Strokes
Message-ID: <199807061450.KAA11968@camel14.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Would any of the members of the NAS CRISIS panel know 
if keystroke surveillance one of the technologies proposed
for the FBI as an alternative to GAK? 

Could this technology to be covertly placed in all keyboards 
for activation say, by remote control, or via a program/device 
on the Internet?

Recall the various proposals for putting hardware encryption 
in keyboards, with the possibility of covert GAK.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: CTIA Daily News 
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 10:27:36 -0700 (PDT)
To: CTIA Daily News 
Subject: CTIA Daily News from WOW-COM - July 6, 1998
Message-ID: <199807061726.MAA12238@mailstrom.revnet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



=============================================
Welcome to today's edition of the CTIA Daily News
from WOW-COM.  Please click on the icon / attachment
for the most important news in wireless communications today.

WIRELESS IT '98, The Next Generation in Personal
Computing & Communications October 12-14,
Las Vegas, Nevada Call (202) 785-0081 for more information!

=============================================


From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: rlpowell@calum.csclub.uwaterloo.ca (Robin Lee Powell)
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 09:59:17 -0700 (PDT)
To: unlisted-recipients:; (no To-header on input)
Subject: Code for Crypto for Work...
Message-ID: <19980706165904Z204413-2874+14@calum.csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I need a crippleable cypher for work (i.e. one that can be done in 40-bit and
something-reasonable modes), and I'm thinking rc5 might be a good choice.
Anyone know where I could find source for this, or have other suggestions?
For the record, I and my company are in Canada.

-Robin





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: rlpowell@calum.csclub.uwaterloo.ca (Robin Lee Powell)
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 10:01:28 -0700 (PDT)
To: unlisted-recipients:; (no To-header on input)
Subject: Nevermind... :-)
Message-ID: <19980706170121Z204409-2875+15@calum.csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


OK, I poked around some more and RC5 is an exceptionally sucky choice.  Anyone
know of any good variable-length algorithms?

-Robin
PS: Sorry for the pseudo-off-topic-ness.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "barBEARian" 
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 07:07:46 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: easy remailing tool for MacIntosh ?
Message-ID: <19980706140648.19437.qmail@m2.findmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


does anybody know of any nice, easy and convenient tool for the MacOS platform to do this complicated set-up for a chain of anonymous remailers ?

TIA, Harley




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Dave Emery 
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 11:43:02 -0700 (PDT)
To: John Young 
Subject: Re: Gov Access to Key Strokes
In-Reply-To: <199807061450.KAA11968@camel14.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <19980706144246.A3940@die.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Mon, Jul 06, 1998 at 10:46:27AM -0400, John Young wrote:

> 
> Could this technology to be covertly placed in all keyboards 
> for activation say, by remote control, or via a program/device 
> on the Internet?
> 
> Recall the various proposals for putting hardware encryption 
> in keyboards, with the possibility of covert GAK.

	John, I have on occasion mentioned on the net the possibility of
doing this via secret back doors in Microsoft OS kernels (W98/NT),
backdoors hidden by encrypted code (and that damn new WIPO treaty) that
would only be decrypted inside the CPU using a chip key not available to
the user.  Given passage of WIPO I fully expect such technology to
become common as a means of copyright protection with very severe
penalties for those who would chose to peek inside the "technological
means" or alter it in any way.  And once one has created this secret
space inside the core OS and protected it by draconian criminal laws, it
doesn't take much for someone to add a little extra feature in there
that logs and transmits back to Big Brother user keystrokes or keys used
with the encryption routines or other such privilaged and private user
information.  This could be added by the FBI or by Microsoft under
federal pressure (which they certainly are).   And interfering with or
disconnecting this nice little brother feature might well be considered
to be tampering with a "technological means" of copyright protection and
subject the user to 5 years in prison. Certainly public dissemination of
tools and information (such as code listings) that would allow access to
and alteration of this secret space would very likely result in criminal
prosecution, even if such legal action was not common for individual users.

	In fact, under WIPO it would already be illegal to just
disassemble and debug the relevant part of the OS to check to see if
there was code in there to log and report keystrokes even if it was not
encrypted or otherwise protected.  And no doubt at all but that the
rights enforcement software will be encrypted and otherwise protected
just to make sure that anyone tampering with it or even just examining
it for security flaws (such as keystroke recorders) would clearly be
flagrantly violating WIPO in an unambiguous as possible way.

	What this means is that due to well meaning anti piracy measures
carried to extremes - WIPO , it is likely to be impossible for a user of
standard shrink wrapped commercial software to legally vet that software
to  determine that it does not contain deliberate (courtesy the FBI)
means to grossly compromise the security of information on his computer
system.  He will have no legal recourse but to trust the provider of the
software, as even the analysis required to prove such a deliberate
security hole exists would be serious federal felonies...

	One wishes that Congress would see the light and allow 
circumvention of copyright protections for legitimate security analysis
and audits (and for any purpose which would be construed as fair use
under copyright law), but so far this hasn't happened.

-- 
	Dave Emery N1PRE,  die@die.com  DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass. 
PGP fingerprint = 2047/4D7B08D1 DE 6E E1 CC 1F 1D 96 E2  5D 27 BD B0 24 88 C3 18





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 12:08:32 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: fwd from spyking@thecodex.com
In-Reply-To: <35A111DE.9C6DDDBB@brainlink.com>
Message-ID: <199807061908.PAA07802@camel14.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Answering Spyking's questions Ray posted in reverse:

The Bronx incident started off as a major CB case,
with barricades and plastic suits galore, in accord
with the push for scare the beans out of the public
with imaginary terrorism (another WMD terrorism trial is 
due to start in NYC shortly).

It turns out that what was found were a couple of 
take-home, mildly radioactive elements (properly 
contained and marked) of a recently deceased 
employee of a plant that used them.  The story 
died quickly. NYT covered it twice, once hot,
once tepid.

Second, what's driving the nationwide push to train First
Responders and emergency room staff is Clinton's
funding the program with billions, after he read
Richard Preston's recent novel on biological
terrorism (so said news reports), and got a few 
heart-thumping briefings from if you only knew 
blackhearts.

Right now preparing for domestic defense against
Weapons of Mass Destruction is the hottest
career-jumpstart in the nation, and there's a frenzy of
competition passing as cooperation among the 
military, National Guards, intel, FBI, FEMA, state 
and local cops, EMS, sawbones, Red Cross,
CB weapons experts (US and RU), mercenaries, 
manufacturers, vets and revolving doorers of all the 
above, and, to be sure, the never-fake-it media 
goading and exaggerating (our straight-shooting 
members here excepted, well, except Y2Kites).

Like many state and local officials relishing the vital
national security role being porked to domestic forces,
neatly bypassing the military's limitations, NYC's mayor 
is happy as a pig in shit with his plan for a new $16m
anti-terrorist bunker on the 23rd floor of a buddy's office 
building across the street from the World Trade Center -- 
one RPG shot from the  23rd WTC into his impenetrable 
C4I nest. Rudy loves to watch "Patton" clad only in a 
Kevlar jockstrap.

Of course, he's a "former federal prosecutor," the most
common subtitle on TV of disembodied talking heads.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: b00kszz@hotmail.com
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 23:43:06 -0700 (PDT)
To: b00kszz@hotmail.com
Subject: 750 How-To Books:UNDER $50.00750 How-To Books:UNDER $50.00
Message-ID: <199807060628.PAA22897@extra.caelum.co.jp>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: jkthomson 
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 19:06:30 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Junger et al.
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980706191157.006b9468@dowco.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Reuters

3:40pm  6.Jul.98.PDT WASHINGTON -- A district court has dismissed a law
professor's challenge to US regulations strictly limiting the export of
computer data-scrambling technology.

Judge James Gwin ruled late Friday that the export limits, which prevented
Case Western Reserve University Law School professor Peter Junger from
posting the text of encryption programs on the Internet, did not violate
the constitutional right to free speech.

The Ohio court's ruling contradicts a California district court ruling last
August that said source code -- the instructions a person writes telling
the computer what actions to perform -- constitutes a form of speech
subject to First Amendment protection.

"Unlike instructions, a manual or a recipe, source code actually performs
the function it describes," Gwin wrote. "While a recipe provides
instructions to a cook, source code is a device, like embedded circuitry in
a telephone, that actually does the function of encryption."

Neither ruling gave speech protection to compiled code, a version of source
code converted into an actual software program that could be run on a
computer.

The US government appealed the California decision and the issue may
ultimately be decided by the Supreme Court.

Civil libertarians and high-tech companies had hoped the court would
overturn the export limits on encryption technology, which uses
mathematical formulas to scramble information and render it unreadable
without a password or software "key."

Once the realm of spies and generals, encryption has become an increasingly
critical means of protecting electronic commerce and global communications
over the Internet.

But law enforcement agencies, fearing encryption will be used by terrorists
and international criminals to hide their activities, have instituted
strict controls to limit the export of strong scrambling products.

Lawyers opposed to the export rules said the Ohio court misunderstood the
difference between source code and compiled code.

"The Ohio court clearly doesn't understand the communicative nature of
software," said Shari Steele, an attorney with the Electronic Frontier
Foundation. "It's true that software helps to perform functions, but it
does so by telling computers what to do.... It certainly is speech
deserving of the highest levels of First Amendment protection."



-----------------------------------------------------------------------
 james 'keith' thomson   www.bigfoot.com/~ceildh
 jkthomson:C181 991A 405C EAFB 2C46 79B5 B1DC DB78 8196 122D [06.07.98]
 ceildh   :1D79 59AF ED75 5945 6003 8240 DA34 ACCA 9DE4 6BC9 [05.14.98]
 ICQ:746241  at pgp.mit.edu     ...and former sysop of tnbnog BBS
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Technology is introduced, utilized, depended upon, obsolete, 
standardized, and understood, in that order
=======================================================================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ernest Hua 
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 19:30:22 -0700 (PDT)
To: cryptography@c2.net>
Subject: RE: Junger et al.
Message-ID: <413AC08141DBD011A58000A0C924A6D52C359A@mvs2.teralogic-inc.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I don't understand ...

Did anyone demonstrate the "functionalness" of any arbitrary language
via a scanner and a compiler?

Why doesn't Gwin understand that the moment one successfully claims that
a specific class of source code is not speech by the virtue of the fact
that a compiler can transform it automatically into executable code
which performs a function, then ANY speech of ANY sort is fundamentally
vulnerable to being classified as functional as soon as a compiler can
transform it into real machine code.

So today, I can write the following:

1.	Find a container.
2.	Fill container with explosive substance.
3.	Move container to target location.
4.	Detonate container.

As soon as I have a compiler and a target machine that can execute these
instructions, suddenly this is not speech.  However, before this
compiler and machine combo exists, event the electronic form of this is
speech!

How could this be?

Ern

	-----Original Message-----
	From:	jkthomson [SMTP:jkthomson@bigfoot.com]
	Sent:	Monday, July 06, 1998 7:12 PM
	To:	cypherpunks@toad.com
	Subject:	Junger et al.



	Reuters

	3:40pm  6.Jul.98.PDT WASHINGTON -- A district court has
dismissed a law
	professor's challenge to US regulations strictly limiting the
export of
	computer data-scrambling technology.

	Judge James Gwin ruled late Friday that the export limits, which
prevented
	Case Western Reserve University Law School professor Peter
Junger from
	posting the text of encryption programs on the Internet, did not
violate
	the constitutional right to free speech.

	The Ohio court's ruling contradicts a California district court
ruling last
	August that said source code -- the instructions a person writes
telling
	the computer what actions to perform -- constitutes a form of
speech
	subject to First Amendment protection.

	"Unlike instructions, a manual or a recipe, source code actually
performs
	the function it describes," Gwin wrote. "While a recipe provides
	instructions to a cook, source code is a device, like embedded
circuitry in
	a telephone, that actually does the function of encryption."

	Neither ruling gave speech protection to compiled code, a
version of source
	code converted into an actual software program that could be run
on a
	computer.

	The US government appealed the California decision and the issue
may
	ultimately be decided by the Supreme Court.

	Civil libertarians and high-tech companies had hoped the court
would
	overturn the export limits on encryption technology, which uses
	mathematical formulas to scramble information and render it
unreadable
	without a password or software "key."

	Once the realm of spies and generals, encryption has become an
increasingly
	critical means of protecting electronic commerce and global
communications
	over the Internet.

	But law enforcement agencies, fearing encryption will be used by
terrorists
	and international criminals to hide their activities, have
instituted
	strict controls to limit the export of strong scrambling
products.

	Lawyers opposed to the export rules said the Ohio court
misunderstood the
	difference between source code and compiled code.

	"The Ohio court clearly doesn't understand the communicative
nature of
	software," said Shari Steele, an attorney with the Electronic
Frontier
	Foundation. "It's true that software helps to perform functions,
but it
	does so by telling computers what to do.... It certainly is
speech
	deserving of the highest levels of First Amendment protection."




-----------------------------------------------------------------------
	 james 'keith' thomson 
www.bigfoot.com/~ceildh
	 jkthomson:C181 991A 405C EAFB 2C46 79B5 B1DC DB78 8196 122D
[06.07.98]
	 ceildh   :1D79 59AF ED75 5945 6003 8240 DA34 ACCA 9DE4 6BC9
[05.14.98]
	 ICQ:746241  at pgp.mit.edu     ...and former sysop of
tnbnog BBS

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
	Technology is introduced, utilized, depended upon, obsolete, 
	standardized, and understood, in that order

=======================================================================_




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 17:34:59 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Gov Secrecy Reform Act of 1998
Message-ID: <199807070034.UAA12735@camel7.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


We've transcribed a fax of Senator Thompson's
Amendment as Substitute for S.712, "Government
Secrecy Reform Act of 1998," passed by the
Governmental Affairs Committee on June 17:

   http://jya.com/s712-amend.htm  (37K)

Here's a report on the amendment and vote:

NCC Washington Update, vol. 4, #25 July 1, 1998
[National Coordinating Committee for the Promotion of History]

Senate Committee Adopts Substitute Bill for
Moynihan's Government Secrecy Reform Act

Senate Committee Adopts Substitute Bill for Moynihan's Government
Secrecy Reform Act -- On June 17 the Senate Governmental Affairs Committee
met to consider a substitute bill for S.712, the Government Secrecy Reform
Act of 1998.  By voice vote, with no negative votes heard, the Committee
passed the substitute bill proposed by Senator Fred Thompson (R-TENN), the
chair of the Committee, and Senator Susan Collins (R-ME).  The original
bill had provided a framework for reform but had lacked the specifics
which this bill provides.

The substitute bill make four major changes from the bill that was
originally introduced.  First, this bill eliminates the section calling
for the establishment of a National Declassification Center in an existing
agency -- which many had thought could be the National Archives -- and
instead expands the functions and oversight responsibilities of the
existing Information Security Oversight Office (ISOO) and moves that
office from the National Archives to the Executive Office of the
President.  Second, the bill states that classified information must be
declassified after 25 years unless, as the bill summary states,
"extraordinary circumstances" require that it remain classified.  The
original bill had a 30 year time limit for most information to remain
classified.  Third, the substitute bill retains the balancing test of the
original bill; however, the revised bill establishes criteria to guide
agency classification decisions for weighing the concerns of national
security and the public interest in disclosure.  The national security
criteria are taken directly from President Clinton's E.O 12958 and the
public interest criteria are newly developed for the substitute bill.
Fourth, the substitute bill establishes a Classification and
Declassification Review Board composed of 5 public members to hear agency
and individual appeals regarding classification and declassification
decisions.

Once the report for the amended S. 712 is filed, which is expected to
happen in mid-July, then the substitute bill will be referred to the
Senate Select Committee on Intelligence for 30 days for their
consideration.  It is anticipated that the Intelligence Committee may hold
hearings and may have objections to the balancing test provision of the
bill.  Since there appears to be little attention in the House to this
legislation and since there are not many legislative days remaining before
adjournment, it is doubtful that this legislation will pass in the 105th
Congress.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "VICTOR HERRERA" 
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 21:02:07 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <01bda95c$e2e22a00$1e83400c@edson>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




can u help me  thank 
u


From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ernest Hua 
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 21:44:11 -0700 (PDT)
To: "'Ed Gerck'" 
Subject: RE: Junger et al.
Message-ID: <413AC08141DBD011A58000A0C924A6D52C359C@mvs2.teralogic-inc.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I think we are in violent agreement here ...

Except that it seems odd that speech is no longer 1st amendment
protected as soon as it can be interpreted by a machine to do something.
So, then, if I want to deny you first amendment protections for
something, I can simply write a compiler to turn your words into machine
executable code, and suddenly, your words are no longer protected
speech.  How could that be a reasonable interpretation of functional
versus not?

Secondly, Gwin said that encryption is a special class of software which
is MORE functional.  This is definitely a misunderstanding, to say the
least.  I don't see how any particular class of software is necessarily
more or less functional than other classes of software.  In the
functional sense, all software, when compiled and executed is
functional, period (whether it performs according to its original design
is irrelevant).

Ern

	-----Original Message-----
	From:	Ed Gerck [SMTP:egerck@laser.cps.softex.br]
	Sent:	Monday, July 06, 1998 9:09 PM
	To:	Ernest Hua
	Cc:	cypherpunks@toad.com; 'cryptography@c2.net'
	Subject:	RE: Junger et al.

	On Mon, 6 Jul 1998, Ernest Hua wrote:

	>So today, I can write the following:
	>
	>1.	Find a container.
	>2.	Fill container with explosive substance.
	>3.	Move container to target location.
	>4.	Detonate container.
	>
	>As soon as I have a compiler and a target machine that can
execute these
	>instructions, suddenly this is not speech.  However, before
this
	>compiler and machine combo exists, event the electronic form of
this is
	>speech!
	>
	>How could this be?

	Gwin has written a phrase which deserves more analysis, IMO --
free
	from political overtones if we want to be impartial. The phrase
can
	be reworded as:

	  "source code is a device, that actually does a function"

	The difference and importance here is between syntatic and
semantics. 

	Your 4-instruction source code above is not a device today -- it
	cannot perform any function. It has only syntatics, not the "how
to". 
	But, if there were a machine that could supply the proper
semantics
	(ie, actually perform the functions 1-4) then your source code
above
	would be a device.  Further, your source code may not be a
device
	today but be a device tomorrow.

	As another example, bringing together one pound of inert metal
with
	another one pound of the same inert metal was not considered to
be
	explosive -- until U235 was used for the inert metal and
properly
	compressed. The difference is semantic, not syntatic. 

	In that, Gwin is correct. Can the source code actually perform a
	function?  Then, it is a device. Irrespective of the needed
platform,
	in the same way that an electric shaver is a device irrespective
of
	the local availablity of an appropriate power outlet.

	IMO, even though I consider Gwin to be correct to a very large
	extent, widespread use of crypto will not come from lifiting
such
	bans ... but from real need -- which does not outweigh the
hassle,
	today. The EFF has a wrong target there. 

	Do you know how much Internet e-mail traffic is encrypted today?
Can
	you believe less than 10%? Notwithstanding the rethoric
exercises and
	limelight it may provide, talking about encryption export bans
may
	not be as effective as desigining better and easier uses of
strong
	crypto -- that can then really drive market, legislation and
courts. 

	Need to use is a better key than need to know, it seems.

	Cheers,

	Ed Gerck

	>
	>Ern
	>
	>	-----Original Message-----
	>	From:	jkthomson [SMTP:jkthomson@bigfoot.com]
	>	Sent:	Monday, July 06, 1998 7:12 PM
	>	To:	cypherpunks@toad.com
	>	Subject:	Junger et al.
	>
	>
	>
	>	Reuters
	>
	>	3:40pm  6.Jul.98.PDT WASHINGTON -- A district court has
	>dismissed a law
	>	professor's challenge to US regulations strictly
limiting the
	>export of
	>	computer data-scrambling technology.
	>
	>	Judge James Gwin ruled late Friday that the export
limits, which
	>prevented
	>	Case Western Reserve University Law School professor
Peter
	>Junger from
	>	posting the text of encryption programs on the Internet,
did not
	>violate
	>	the constitutional right to free speech.
	>
	>	The Ohio court's ruling contradicts a California
district court
	>ruling last
	>	August that said source code -- the instructions a
person writes
	>telling
	>	the computer what actions to perform -- constitutes a
form of
	>speech
	>	subject to First Amendment protection.
	>
	>	"Unlike instructions, a manual or a recipe, source code
actually
	>performs
	>	the function it describes," Gwin wrote. "While a recipe
provides
	>	instructions to a cook, source code is a device, like
embedded
	>circuitry in
	>	a telephone, that actually does the function of
encryption."
	>
	>	Neither ruling gave speech protection to compiled code,
a
	>version of source
	>	code converted into an actual software program that
could be run
	>on a
	>	computer.
	>
	>	The US government appealed the California decision and
the issue
	>may
	>	ultimately be decided by the Supreme Court.
	>
	>	Civil libertarians and high-tech companies had hoped the
court
	>would
	>	overturn the export limits on encryption technology,
which uses
	>	mathematical formulas to scramble information and render
it
	>unreadable
	>	without a password or software "key."
	>
	>	Once the realm of spies and generals, encryption has
become an
	>increasingly
	>	critical means of protecting electronic commerce and
global
	>communications
	>	over the Internet.
	>
	>	But law enforcement agencies, fearing encryption will be
used by
	>terrorists
	>	and international criminals to hide their activities,
have
	>instituted
	>	strict controls to limit the export of strong scrambling
	>products.
	>
	>	Lawyers opposed to the export rules said the Ohio court
	>misunderstood the
	>	difference between source code and compiled code.
	>
	>	"The Ohio court clearly doesn't understand the
communicative
	>nature of
	>	software," said Shari Steele, an attorney with the
Electronic
	>Frontier
	>	Foundation. "It's true that software helps to perform
functions,
	>but it
	>	does so by telling computers what to do.... It certainly
is
	>speech
	>	deserving of the highest levels of First Amendment
protection."
	>
	>
	>
	>

>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
	>	 james 'keith' thomson 
	>www.bigfoot.com/~ceildh
	>	 jkthomson:C181 991A 405C EAFB 2C46 79B5 B1DC DB78 8196
122D
	>[06.07.98]
	>	 ceildh   :1D79 59AF ED75 5945 6003 8240 DA34 ACCA 9DE4
6BC9
	>[05.14.98]
	>	 ICQ:746241  at pgp.mit.edu     ...and former
sysop of
	>tnbnog BBS
	>

>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
	>	Technology is introduced, utilized, depended upon,
obsolete, 
	>	standardized, and understood, in that order
	>

>=======================================================================
_
	>


______________________________________________________________________
	Dr.rer.nat. E. Gerck
egerck@novaware.cps.softex.br
	http://novaware.cps.softex.br
	    --- Meta-Certificate Group member, http://www.mcg.org.br ---




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "DOnotreply" 
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 05:55:49 -0700 (PDT)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: Best Free XXX on the net!!!!
Message-ID: <199807071254.FAA18182@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I have compiled a list of the best free XXX sites on the net!!
Take a look at:

Best ever

You will save a lot!






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED/EUREKA! 
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 17:49:05 -0700 (PDT)
To: All Eureka/Stuffed Subscribers: ;
Subject: Secret World of Spice/Freeway of Love
Message-ID: <19980706235722.1066.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/html

STUFFED  Mon Jul 6 '98

Click Here For STUFFED, The NEW Daily Tabloid
 News And Babes Color Supplement From Eureka!

Click here to read it: http://stuffed.net/98/7/6/



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ed Gerck 
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 21:09:02 -0700 (PDT)
To: Ernest Hua 
Subject: RE: Junger et al.
In-Reply-To: <413AC08141DBD011A58000A0C924A6D52C359A@mvs2.teralogic-inc.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Mon, 6 Jul 1998, Ernest Hua wrote:

>So today, I can write the following:
>
>1.	Find a container.
>2.	Fill container with explosive substance.
>3.	Move container to target location.
>4.	Detonate container.
>
>As soon as I have a compiler and a target machine that can execute these
>instructions, suddenly this is not speech.  However, before this
>compiler and machine combo exists, event the electronic form of this is
>speech!
>
>How could this be?

Gwin has written a phrase which deserves more analysis, IMO -- free
from political overtones if we want to be impartial. The phrase can
be reworded as:

  "source code is a device, that actually does a function"

The difference and importance here is between syntatic and semantics. 

Your 4-instruction source code above is not a device today -- it
cannot perform any function. It has only syntatics, not the "how to". 
But, if there were a machine that could supply the proper semantics
(ie, actually perform the functions 1-4) then your source code above
would be a device.  Further, your source code may not be a device
today but be a device tomorrow.

As another example, bringing together one pound of inert metal with
another one pound of the same inert metal was not considered to be
explosive -- until U235 was used for the inert metal and properly
compressed. The difference is semantic, not syntatic. 

In that, Gwin is correct. Can the source code actually perform a
function?  Then, it is a device. Irrespective of the needed platform,
in the same way that an electric shaver is a device irrespective of
the local availablity of an appropriate power outlet.

IMO, even though I consider Gwin to be correct to a very large
extent, widespread use of crypto will not come from lifiting such
bans ... but from real need -- which does not outweigh the hassle,
today. The EFF has a wrong target there. 

Do you know how much Internet e-mail traffic is encrypted today?  Can
you believe less than 10%? Notwithstanding the rethoric exercises and
limelight it may provide, talking about encryption export bans may
not be as effective as desigining better and easier uses of strong
crypto -- that can then really drive market, legislation and courts. 

Need to use is a better key than need to know, it seems.

Cheers,

Ed Gerck

>
>Ern
>
>	-----Original Message-----
>	From:	jkthomson [SMTP:jkthomson@bigfoot.com]
>	Sent:	Monday, July 06, 1998 7:12 PM
>	To:	cypherpunks@toad.com
>	Subject:	Junger et al.
>
>
>
>	Reuters
>
>	3:40pm  6.Jul.98.PDT WASHINGTON -- A district court has
>dismissed a law
>	professor's challenge to US regulations strictly limiting the
>export of
>	computer data-scrambling technology.
>
>	Judge James Gwin ruled late Friday that the export limits, which
>prevented
>	Case Western Reserve University Law School professor Peter
>Junger from
>	posting the text of encryption programs on the Internet, did not
>violate
>	the constitutional right to free speech.
>
>	The Ohio court's ruling contradicts a California district court
>ruling last
>	August that said source code -- the instructions a person writes
>telling
>	the computer what actions to perform -- constitutes a form of
>speech
>	subject to First Amendment protection.
>
>	"Unlike instructions, a manual or a recipe, source code actually
>performs
>	the function it describes," Gwin wrote. "While a recipe provides
>	instructions to a cook, source code is a device, like embedded
>circuitry in
>	a telephone, that actually does the function of encryption."
>
>	Neither ruling gave speech protection to compiled code, a
>version of source
>	code converted into an actual software program that could be run
>on a
>	computer.
>
>	The US government appealed the California decision and the issue
>may
>	ultimately be decided by the Supreme Court.
>
>	Civil libertarians and high-tech companies had hoped the court
>would
>	overturn the export limits on encryption technology, which uses
>	mathematical formulas to scramble information and render it
>unreadable
>	without a password or software "key."
>
>	Once the realm of spies and generals, encryption has become an
>increasingly
>	critical means of protecting electronic commerce and global
>communications
>	over the Internet.
>
>	But law enforcement agencies, fearing encryption will be used by
>terrorists
>	and international criminals to hide their activities, have
>instituted
>	strict controls to limit the export of strong scrambling
>products.
>
>	Lawyers opposed to the export rules said the Ohio court
>misunderstood the
>	difference between source code and compiled code.
>
>	"The Ohio court clearly doesn't understand the communicative
>nature of
>	software," said Shari Steele, an attorney with the Electronic
>Frontier
>	Foundation. "It's true that software helps to perform functions,
>but it
>	does so by telling computers what to do.... It certainly is
>speech
>	deserving of the highest levels of First Amendment protection."
>
>
>
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>	 james 'keith' thomson 
>www.bigfoot.com/~ceildh
>	 jkthomson:C181 991A 405C EAFB 2C46 79B5 B1DC DB78 8196 122D
>[06.07.98]
>	 ceildh   :1D79 59AF ED75 5945 6003 8240 DA34 ACCA 9DE4 6BC9
>[05.14.98]
>	 ICQ:746241  at pgp.mit.edu     ...and former sysop of
>tnbnog BBS
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>	Technology is introduced, utilized, depended upon, obsolete, 
>	standardized, and understood, in that order
>
>=======================================================================_
>

______________________________________________________________________
Dr.rer.nat. E. Gerck                     egerck@novaware.cps.softex.br
http://novaware.cps.softex.br
    --- Meta-Certificate Group member, http://www.mcg.org.br ---





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ed Gerck 
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 22:28:14 -0700 (PDT)
To: Ernest Hua 
Subject: RE: Junger et al.
In-Reply-To: <413AC08141DBD011A58000A0C924A6D52C359C@mvs2.teralogic-inc.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Mon, 6 Jul 1998, Ernest Hua wrote:

>I think we are in violent agreement here ...
>
>Except that it seems odd that speech is no longer 1st amendment
>protected as soon as it can be interpreted by a machine to do something.
>So, then, if I want to deny you first amendment protections for
>something, I can simply write a compiler to turn your words into machine
>executable code, and suddenly, your words are no longer protected
>speech.  How could that be a reasonable interpretation of functional
>versus not?
>

By the same reasoning as in my posting:

>>
>>As another example, bringing together one pound of inert metal with
>>another one pound of the same inert metal was not considered to be
>>explosive -- until U235 was used for the inert metal and properly
>>compressed. The difference is semantic, not syntatic. 
>>

Thus, your instructions to bring together those two one-pound pieces
would be your right to free speech -- maybe it is poetry -- as long
as that is not recognized as a federal crime! After it boooms the
first time... it is a device, and it is immediately recognized to be
an unlawful one. 

>Secondly, Gwin said that encryption is a special class of software which
>is MORE functional.  This is definitely a misunderstanding, to say the  

I could not find that quote -- "more functional".

BTW, I think that Gwin was struggling to express the notion that
source code (syntax) is a device whenever there is a clear binding
between that source code and known semantics, together with proper
pragmatics (the enviroment, as defined in semiotics), in order to
perform the desired function. 

This is called a Just In-Iime Compiler ... and Gwin is 100% right
when he affirms that the difference between source code and compiled
code is null regarding its effects -- its desired function. 

Thus, if the device is unlawful then it must be unlawful both as a
source code and as a compiled code. 


Cheers,

Ed Gerck


______________________________________________________________________
Dr.rer.nat. E. Gerck                     egerck@novaware.cps.softex.br
http://novaware.cps.softex.br
    --- Meta-Certificate Group member, http://www.mcg.org.br ---












From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: mgraffam@mhv.net
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 00:21:04 -0700 (PDT)
To: Ernest Hua 
Subject: RE: Junger et al.
In-Reply-To: <413AC08141DBD011A58000A0C924A6D52C359A@mvs2.teralogic-inc.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Mon, 6 Jul 1998, Ernest Hua wrote:

> Did anyone demonstrate the "functionalness" of any arbitrary language
> via a scanner and a compiler?

Indeed.. what we need is for someone to testify to the court about
natural and computer language, and maybe some relevent material from
information theory. 

Pseudo-code from any computer programming textbook would be helpful
in making this point too.

What about English in a voice recognition system? In this case, English
can actually perform functions too, just as C does.


Michael J. Graffam (mgraffam@mhv.net)
http://www.mhv.net/~mgraffam -- Philosophy, Religion, Computers, Crypto, etc
"Enlightenment is man's emergence from his self-incurred immaturity.
Immaturity is the inability to use one's own understanding without the
guidance of another. . .Sapere aude! Have the courage to use your own
understanding!" - Immanuel Kant "What is Enlightenment?"





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Global Web Builders 
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 13:56:05 -0700 (PDT)
To: (Recipient list suppressed)
Subject: Update on status of Pauline Hanson's One Nation web sites
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980706204122.00729e64@mail.ipswich.gil.com.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


G'day One Nation supporters in NSW

I am Scott Balson, Pauline Hanson's web master and the moderator of the now
defunct discussion forum mentioned in a recent news letter. You will notice
that I am not using my normal "gwb" email.

I apologise for the demise of the very successful discussion forum, but may
I say that nothing surprises me any more.

The forum was run on a third party web site and the owner took two weeks
leave on Sunday - the day before the forum "shut down".

Quite simply it was hacked by an unknown person because it was so
successful. This is the face of free speech in Australia. NOTE: The hacker
was not the site owner.

To make matters worse, last Friday, the One Nation pages went down after the
ISP we used, Pronet, had their link closed by Optus because of financial
difficulties... we have taken remedial action and hope to have the site
fully operational in the next 48 hours at:

http://www.gwb.com.au/onenation

The last few weeks I have seen, heard of and personally faced a growing
number of personal attacks aimed at those involved in the One Nation party.
In my case this has included being followed while driving my car (last week)
and phone calls from the media wanting me to comment on "anonymous",
unsubstantiated and trumped-up allegations that were made personally against
me. (For example, when questioned about his call to me on Sunday Rory
Callinan from "The (News Limited) Courier Mail" confirmed that they would
not normally bother with allegations made on this basis but my role within
the party had made an anonymous allegation "newsworthy" and worth pursuing.)

This follows the party's success in the Queensland state elections.

May I just say that this makes me realise that One Nation is obviously
having a big impact on those who have got the most to lose and through their
actions they have just increased my resolve to do all that I can to ensure
Pauline Hanson and the party get a "fair go" on the Internet even if this
right is denied by the mainstream media.

The events and incidents against the party will continue to be covered on my
Australian National News of the Day (anotd) which should be live again soon
(also temporarily closed because of the Pronet collapse) The address for
anotd is: http://www.gwb.com.au/gwb/news

The agenda for getting One Nation back on-line and the discussion form up
and running again is as follows:

One Nation web site and anotd fully operation by Friday 10th July (probably
before)
http://www.gwb.com.au/onenation

Discussion forum (through GWB) fully operational by end of July.

I will keep this group informed when the discussion forum is again
operational and once again apologise for the temporary loss of our forum in
which to discuss issues.

Please do not respond to this temporary account unless it is on a matter of
urgency.

The gwb@gwb.com.au email address will be up and running again by this weekend.

GWB



Scott Balson
Pauline Hanson's Web Master





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 06:49:46 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: keystrokes and crooked judges
Message-ID: <35A22681.7F5D@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

I am reading http://www.jya.com/gaks-de.htm

Perhaps this e-mail may interest you

Best
bill
http://www.apcatalog.com/cgi-bin/AP?ISBN=0125475705&LOCATION=US&FORM=FORM2
http://www-hto.usc.edu/software/seqaln/doc/html/gfsr.3.html



Monday 6/8/98 7:53 AM  
  
John Young  
  
I am reading http://jya.com/sitesec.htm a bit more carefully.  
  
You have NEVER WRITTEN SO MUCH.  
  
Fishing was great.  
  
I used a   
  
          $10 THE  INSTANT CALLING CARD [TM]   
          VOCALL COMMUNICATIONS CORP  
	  The World's Most advanced prepaid Calling Card  
  
which allows access with a pin of 718-2455-7091-xxx [my SECRET]  
in ENGLISH, SPANISH, ARABIC, URDU, KOREAN, JAPANESE, GERMAN,   
FRENCH, ITALIAN to call you TWICE on Saturday.  At only $.14/min.  
  
I left one message about Xandi and spiking computer keyboards.  
  
Xandi MADE low-power transmitters,   
  
http://www.gernsback.com/HyperNews/get/forums/resource/226.html  
  
like the kind I MIGHT use IF I were going to spike a keyboard [most
which use an 8051  
  
 
http://www.apcatalog.com/cgi-bin/AP?ISBN=0125475705&LOCATION=US&FORM=FORM2]  
  
so that the keystrokes would be broadcast.    
  
This, of course, defeats crypto attempts to cipher keystrokes.  
  
But I DO NOT DO, or have to do, ILLEGAL THINGS for the FBI or any other
government agency.  
  
I, as a DOE contractor employee, was protected under 10 CFR 708.  
http://av.yahoo.com/bin/query?p=10+cfr+708&hc=0&hs=0  
  
But 10 CFR 708 does not appear to be working well in my case.   
  
Therefore, we had to try other remedies.  
  
VOCALL is getting real close to digital cash, one of Orlin Grabbe's 	  
interests.  http://www.aci.net/kalliste/dcguide.htm  
  
I have to do mostly technical work on the digital FX this week but will
try to  
get two notices of appeal to the Tenth circuit written.
http://jya.com/whp043098.htm  
  
Morales and I, with all the publicity you and Orlin have given us, can  
go all the way to the Supreme Court with our genocide and crypto  
deficiency lawsuits. http://jya.com/whpfiles.htm  
  
Pro se, of course.  
  
Too bad NSA did not take my criticisms of its shift register work  
more constructively.  http://jya.com/da/whpda.htm,  click on Appendix S  
  
Perhaps NSA should have worked with some of us at Sandia to come-up  
with fixes to overcome deficiencies. This unpleasantness could have been
avoided.  
  
I've had ideas to improve shift register algorithm operation before.  
http://www-hto.usc.edu/software/seqaln/doc/html/gfsr.3.html  
  
Let's all hope for settlement of this UNFORTUNATE matter before it  
gets worse.  
  
Later  
bill  

And this too.

Subject: 
        FBI agents and Junger
  Date: 
        Tue, 07 Jul 1998 07:32:36 -0600
  From: 
        bill payne 
    To: 
        jy@jya.com
    CC: 
        art morales , whitfield diffie
, tom carpenter - halcyon ,
        marc rotenberg , national employee rights
institute , mab@research.att.com,
        mejudson@mail.wdn.com, lwirbel@aol.com, klayman
, john gilmore ,
jpcarson@mindspring.com,
        jdelia@gnn.com, jeff debonis <76554.133@compuserve.com>, jay
coughlan , jason vest ,
        j orlin grabbe , david sobel ,
Cindy@McGlashan.com


Tuesday 7/7/98 7:28 AM

John Young

I am reading http://www.jya.com/pdj10.htm

FBI agents Perez, Rodrigues, and Silva warned us about the crooked
judges at the appellate level.  

The FBI blackmailed Perez, Rodrigues, and Silva into a cheap settlement
of their race discrimination lawsuit win in Lucius Bunton's West Texas
court.

They all lost money.  And all got divorced.

Perez is a buddy of Morales and Gonzales.

Gonzales and Armenta are buddies of Silva.

Hugo Rodrigues moved to Florida.

This information is VERY VALUABLE to Morales and me.

It shapes our response to the two letters from the Tenth I put
in the mail to you yesterday.

NO FUTURE IN ARGUING POINTS OF LAW WITH CROOKED JUDGES.

bill


Counterfeiting Wiegand Wire Access Credentials
     
                                   Bill Payne
     
                                 October 16,1996
     
                                    Abstract
     
                  Wiegand wire access credentials are easy and
                  inexpensive to counterfeit.
     
        Access Control & Security Systems Integration magazine, October
        1996 [http://www/securitysolutions.com] published the article,
     
             Wiegand technology stands the test of time
     
             by PAUL J. BODELL, page 12
     
             Many card and reader manufacturers offer Wiegand (pronounced
             wee-gand) output.  However, only three companies in the
             world make Wiegand readers.  Sensor Engineering of Hamden
             Conn., holds the patent for Wiegand, and Sensor has licensed
             Cardkey of Simi Valley, Calif., and Doduco of Pforzheim,
             Germany, to manufacture Wiegand cards and readers. ...  A
             Wiegand output reader is not the same thing as a Wiegand
             reader,  and it is important to understand the differences.
     
                In brief, Wiegand reader use the Wiegand effect to
             translate card information around the patented Wiegand
             effect in which a segment of a specially treated wire
             generates an electronic pulse when subjected to a specific
             magnetic field.  If the pulse is generated when the wire is
             near a pick-up coil, the pulse can be detected by a circuit.
             Lining up several rows of wires and passing them by a cold
             would generate a series of pulses.  Lining up two rows of
             wires - calling on row "zero bits" and the other "one bits"
             - and passing them by two different coils would generate two
             series of pulses, or data bits.  These data bits can then be
             interpreted as binary data and used to control other
             devices.  If you seal the coils in a rugged housing with
             properly placed magnets, and LED and some simple circuitry,
             you have a Wiegand reader.  Carefully laminate the special
             wires in vinyl, and artwork, and hot-stamp a number on the
             vinyl, and you have a Wiegand card.
     
             IN THE BEGINNING
     
               Wiegand was first to introduce to the access control
             market in the late 1970s.  It was immediately successful
             because it filled the need for durable, secure card and
             reader technology.
               Embedded in the cards, Wiegand wires cannot be altered or
             duplicated. ...
     
        Bodell's Last statement is incorrect.
     
        Tasks for EASILY counterfeiting Wiegand wire cards are
     
        1    Locate the wires inside the card to read the 0s and 1s.
     
        2    Build an ACCEPTABLE copy of the card.
     
        Bodell's clear explanation of the working of a Wiegand card can
        be visualized
     
             zero row    |     |   |
     
             one row        |          |
     
             binary      0  1  0   0   1
             representation
     
        Solutions to Task 1
     
             A    X-ray the card
     
             B    MAGNI VIEW FILM,  Mylar film reads magnetic fields ...
                  Edmunds Scientific Company, catalog 16N1, page
                  205, C33,447  $11.75
     
        is placed over the top of the Wiegand card.
     
        COW MAGNET,  Cow magnetics allow farmers to trap metal in the
        stomachs of their cows.  Edmunds, page 204, C31,101 $10.75
        is placed under the card.
     
        Location of the wires is easily seen on the green film.
     
        Mark the position of the wires with a pen.
     
        Next chop the card vertically using a shear into about 80/1000s
        paper-match-sized strips.
     
        Don't worry about cutting a wire or two.
     
        Note that a 0 has the pen mark to the top.  A 1 has the pen mark
        at the bottom.
     
        Take a business card and layout the "paper match"-like strips to
        counterfeit the card number desired.
     
        Don't worry about spacing.  Wiegand output is self-clocking!
     
        Tape the "paper-match - like" strips to the business card.
     
        Only the FUNCTION of the card needs to be reproduced!
     
                                     History
     
        Breaking electronic locks was done as "work for others" at Sandia
     
        National Laboratories beginning in 1992 funded by the Federal
        Bureau of Investigation/Engineering Research Facility, Quantico,
        VA.
     
        The FBI opined that this work was SECRET/NATIONAL SECURITY
        INFORMATION.
     
        Details of the consequences of this work are covered in
     
             Fired Worker File Lawsuit Against Sandia
             Specialist Says He Balked When Lab Sought Electronic
             Picklock Software, Albuquer Journal, Sunday April 25, 1993
     
             State-sanctioned paranoia,  EE Times, January 22, 1996
     
             One man's battle,  EE Times, March 22, 1994
     
             Damn the torpedoes,  EE Times, June 6, 1994
     
             Protecting properly classified info,  EE Times, April 11,
             1994
     
             DOE to scrutinize fairness in old whistle-blower cases,
             Albuquerque Tribune, Nov 7 1995
     
             DOE boss accelerates whistle-blower protection,  Albuquerque
             Tribune, March 27, 1996
     
             DOE doesn't plan to compensate 'old' whistle-blowers with
             money, Albuquerque Tribune September 27, 199




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 23:35:05 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: no subject!Anti-National ID Bill
Message-ID: <199807070635.IAA08822@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Where is this?  Stalled.  Looks dead in the water.  Any further insights?


H.R.3261 
SPONSOR: Rep Paul (introduced 02/25/98) 

SUMMARY: 

(AS INTRODUCED) 

Privacy Protection Act of 1997 (sic) - Amends title II (Old Age, Survivors
and Disability Insurance) of the Social Security Act and the Internal
Revenue Code to prohibit any Federal, State, or local government agency or
instrumentality from using a social security account number or
any derivative as the means of identifying any individual, except for
specified social security and tax purposes. 

Amends the Privacy Act of 1974 to prohibit any Federal, State, or local
government agency or instrumentality from requesting an individual to
disclose his social security account number on either a mandatory or a
voluntary basis. 

Prohibits any two Federal agencies or instrumentalities from implementing
the same identifying number with respect to any individual, except as
authorized under this Act. 


----
STATUS: Detailed Legislative Status 

                                                 House Actions

Feb 25, 98:
     Referred to the Committee on Ways and Means, and in addition to the
Committee on Government Reform and Oversight, for a period to
     be subsequently determined by the Speaker, in each case for
consideration of such provisions as fall within the jurisdiction of the
     committee concerned. 
     Mar 2, 98:
          Referred to the Subcommittee on Government Management,
Information and Technology.
Feb 25, 98:
     Referred to the Committee on Ways and Means, and in addition to the
Committee on Government Reform and Oversight, for a period to
     be subsequently determined by the Speaker, in each case for
consideration of such provisions as fall within the jurisdiction of the
     committee concerned.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Arnold G. Reinhold" 
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 05:46:16 -0700 (PDT)
To: Robert Hettinga 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 9:13 AM -0400 7/6/98, Robert Hettinga wrote:
>Hettinga's three laws of internet payment technology investment:
>
>1. Geodesic, peer-to-peer transactions.
>2. Three orders of magnitude cost reduction.
>3. Nothing but net.
>
>The application of the above to Cybercash, or SET, for that matter, I leave
>as an exercise for the reader...
>

Three orders of magnitude cost reduction as compared to what?  I can
believe that much improvement over running my credit card thru an imprinter
and processing the paper slip.  But I doubt you can get anything like1000X
over SET, ugly as it is.

Arnold Reinhold






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: info@homebusinesscentral.net
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 09:56:42 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: MAKE MORE MONEY ONLINE
Message-ID: <199807071656.JAA23629@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill.stewart@pobox.com
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 10:07:12 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Private-enterprise wiretapping
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980707100633.0090d580@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




STOLEN NUMBERS -- [New York Times, p. 31, 7/5.] 
Federal investigators said the scam was ingenious in its simplicity: 
Five people in New York City would tap into public pay phones at major airports 
across the country, then steal calling-card numbers
punched in by unsuspecting travelers. The scheme ended last month 
with the arrests of four men and one woman. But the case is
only the latest machination in a $4-billion-a-year telephone fraud 
industry that keeps reinventing itself. "This is something we have
not seen before," said Boyd Jackson [of] network security at AT&T, 
one of the industry experts who helped Federal investigators on
the case. "And there is nothing I am aware of that customers can do 
to fully protect themselves." The Secret Service was tipped off
by AT&T, Bell Atlantic and MCI after they received an unusually 
high number of complaints from customers who had recently used
their calling cards in airports. 
[Also San Jose Mercury News, 1C; Rocky Mountain News, 33A; Sun-Sentinel, 3A, 7/4.]




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 07:40:04 -0700 (PDT)
To: "Arnold G. Reinhold" 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 8:47 AM -0400 on 7/7/98, Arnold G. Reinhold wrote:



> Three orders of magnitude cost reduction as compared to what?  I can
> believe that much improvement over running my credit card thru an imprinter
> and processing the paper slip.

Yes. SSL and HTML does that to paper, even telephone, credit card
transactions. As long as you're using the net anyway. :-).

> But I doubt you can get anything like1000X
> over SET, ugly as it is.

Actually, it's *SET's* burden to proove that it's 1000X cheaper (including
the cost of fraud) than SSL, the status quo ante of internet payment
systems.

I don't think SET is cheaper, much less three orders of magnitude cheaper,
than SSL.

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The Philodox Symposium on Digital Bearer Transaction Settlement
  July 23-24, 1998: 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Cindy Cohn 
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 11:15:45 -0700 (PDT)
To: bernstein-announce@toad.com
Subject: Junger decision
Message-ID: <199807071759.KAA28716@gw.quake.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


For those who haven't yet heard,

Judge Gwin in the District Court in Ohio has granted the government summary
judgment in the Junger case.  Judge Gwin apparently agreed with the
government that the "functionality" of  encryption source code, and the
government's claims that it only intends to regulate that "functionality"
mean that the regulations are not "narrowly and directed at expressive
conduct" and so do not merit prior restraint analysis.  The Judge then held
that the regulations were content neutral, applied the intermediate scrutiny
tests and found that the export restrictions meet those tests.

I haven't had the opportunity to review the decision yet.  As soon as I
have, I will post some brief comments.

Still no decision from the 9th Circuit in Bernstein.  

Cindy



******************************
Cindy A. Cohn, Cindy@McGlashan.com
McGlashan & Sarrail, P.C.
177 Bovet Road, 6th Floor
San Mateo, CA 94402
(650) 341-2585 (tel)
(650) 341-1395 (fax)





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: CTIA Daily News 
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 09:13:58 -0700 (PDT)
To: CTIA Daily News 
Subject: CTIA Daily News from WOW-COM - July 7, 1998
Message-ID: <199807071605.LAA11317@mailstrom.revnet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



=============================================
Welcome to today's edition of the CTIA Daily News
from WOW-COM.  Please click on the icon / attachment
for the most important news in wireless communications today.
=============================================


From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 08:17:39 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: US to Ease Crypto Export
Message-ID: <199807071517.LAA25263@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


7 July 1998 
Source:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPlate/1998-07/07/064l-070798-idx.html
Thanks to FT
  
U.S. to Ease Limits on Export of Data-Scrambling Technology

By Elizabeth Corcoran
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, July 7, 1998; Page E04 

Commerce Secretary William Daley plans to announce today
that the government will give U.S. software companies new
freedom to export their most sophisticated data-scrambling
technology to financial institutions chartered in 45 countries,
according to Clinton administration sources.

Under the new rules, which officials said are likely to take
effect in late summer, eligible banks, securities firms,
brokerage houses and credit-card companies will need to
receive approval only once from the Commerce Department
before they can license the most sophisticated "encryption," or
data-scrambling, technology.

Once they receive approval, those institutions will be
permitted to share the technology with any of their branch
offices, except for those located in terrorist states.
Government sources estimate that the new rules will include
about 70 percent of the world's banks, including the 100
largest (ranked by assets).

For years, the government has closely regulated export of
encryption software, on the grounds that terrorists or hostile
governments might use it to cloak their communications. The
software industry argues that the rules are unworkable and
unfairly block foreign sales. Unfriendly parties wanting to use
encryption already can obtain it overseas, industry executives
said.

The new rules on banks are "a move in the right direction,"
said one industry executive familiar with the regulations. "But
we're still leaving some groups out. Basically, we need to keep
spreading the circle wider," to include the growing number of
businesses offering financial services, such as insurance
companies.

"What we've heard sounds great," said Kawika Daguio, a
lobbyist for the American Bankers Association. "We've been
arguing [for several years] that the regulatory structure we
have guarantees we're good citizens" who wouldn't make illicit
use of the technology, he said.

Now the government appears to have agreed.

Current regulations require that U.S. companies apply for
permits before exporting anything but the simplest versions of
encryption products. To export more sophisticated
technology, organizations must have a plan for creating
so-called "spare keys." That way, law enforcement officials
who have obtained a court order would be able to unlock the
information.

In May 1997, the Commerce Department said it would not
restrict the sophistication of the data-encryption technology
sold to financial institutions. But it required spare keys and
case-by-case licensing. Approvals have been slow. Now the
government is doing away with the key requirement, defining
more precisely which financial institutions qualify and pledging
to end case-by-case approval.

Because of concerns about money laundering, the government
will grant the new permission only to financial institutions
chartered in countries that have agreed to take steps against
money-laundering. If U.S. companies want to sell to financial
institutions chartered in other countries, they will have to
apply for licenses from the Commerce Department.

Such provisions still fall short of the demands of U.S.
companies. "To take a piecemeal approach [to loosening
encryption restrictions] is the wrong direction," said Ed
Gillespie, executive director of Americans for Computer
Privacy, a lobbying group. "We need a blanket lifting of
restrictions with individual prohibitions," such as bans on
sending such technology to terrorist states, he said.

In a related development, a federal court in Ohio ruled on
Friday that posting the text of an encryption program on the
Internet, where people all over the world could see it, was not
protected by the constitutional right to free speech.

The ruling, made late Friday, contradicts a ruling made by a
California district court last August. Privacy advocates predict

that the issue will be taken up by the U.S. Supreme Court. 

(c) Copyright 1998 The Washington Post Company





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Burnes 
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 11:29:21 -0700 (PDT)
To: Ernest Hua 
Subject: RE: Junger et al.
In-Reply-To: <413AC08141DBD011A58000A0C924A6D52C359C@mvs2.teralogic-inc.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Mon, 6 Jul 1998, Ernest Hua wrote:

> I think we are in violent agreement here ...
> 
> Except that it seems odd that speech is no longer 1st amendment
> protected as soon as it can be interpreted by a machine to do something.
> So, then, if I want to deny you first amendment protections for
> something, I can simply write a compiler to turn your words into machine
> executable code, and suddenly, your words are no longer protected
> speech.  How could that be a reasonable interpretation of functional
> versus not?
> 

Obviously there is no difference between 10 lines of PERL and
1500 lines of assembler (or machine code).  Executability is in the
eye of the beholder.  I can create an interpreter to execute english
(and in fact have done so in LISP).  Does that mean english is no longer
protected?

By the same argument, DNA is also a device.  The federal government
can now determine who you can reproduce with. (eugenics?)

DNA strands are instructions, code if you will, that describe to
cellular automata (literally ;-), how to (1) create a human being
(that could be dangerous -- they've been known to kill) and
(2) through fantastic complexity generate a fully functioning
human being, with all the behavioral patterns and biological
operations necessary to sustain said human being.

Imputing "deviceness" to code is missing the point.  There is
"deviceness" in all information.  It just depends on the context.

I would argue that it is specifically this "deviceness" that is protected
in the first amendment.  Speech isn't just about yammering on about
abstract concepts.  The imperative form of speech is probably the
most necessary to protect in a free society.

The most sacred form of democratic speech is probably the
vote.  Does it contain "deviceness"?  Absolutely.  The vote
is democratic force.

Is it not protected speech?

Speech in action is code in action.  When they can make code
illegal, they can make comittees to un-elect illegal and they
can make talking about impeaching the president illegal.

Think about that.

PostScript: It seems its not so much speech they don't like.
They don't like us talking to our computers, because there are
some things that computers do that are very powerful.  Maybe
more powerful than the state can handle.

In other words, I can tell Jan Hammer in Germany exactly how
to do what PGP does.  It might take him an infinity to actually
do it, but that speech is protected.  When I tell Jan's computer
how to do it, its illegal.

So speech is ok as long as its ineffective.  If it can actually
effect change then its illegal.

Interesting notion of free speech.

jim


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP 5.0i
Charset: noconv

iQA/AwUBNaJpoulhVGT5JbsfEQJU/gCgziy0U50OJXycwYNZPd4XsUuQfP8An3NY
BiWWWH8zvcvdVgKf2AM9ANu6
=6abs
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Xcott Craver 
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 10:53:49 -0700 (PDT)
To: mgraffam@mhv.net
Subject: RE: Junger et al.
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Tue, 7 Jul 1998 mgraffam@mhv.net wrote:

> Indeed.. what we need is for someone to testify to the court about
> natural and computer language, and maybe some relevent material from
> information theory. 

	What we need, IMO, is a well-placed stunt or two.

	On sci.crypt a while ago I mentioned that if perl-RSA got
	any smaller, one could make it the *subtitle* of one's next
	book:  "Blah blah blah:  what ``/usr/bin/perl blah blah blah
	...'' means."

	The result would be a book, with book-like 1st amendment
	protections, but which would turn ONLINE library card 
	catalogs into online repositories for strong crypto.  Need RSA?
	Look up the book, cut and paste into a shell.  Ta Daaaa!
	You're an evil terrorist.

	The point of this is to drive home the fact that while
	source code is something that *does* (i.e., a device),
	it's also something that *says*.  It's information, even
	if executable information, and cannot be dispatched as 
	easily as a gun or a bomb.  Should the government attempt
	to declare a book title a munition, it'll fer sure end up
	in CNN fringe.

> Pseudo-code from any computer programming textbook would be helpful
> in making this point too.

	You'd need to prove it easily runnable.  What's the tech
	status of OCR via, say, a minicam?  If you could just 
	hold a page of _Applied Crypto_ up to your computer and
	have it gleen C source (much easier than gleening English),
	It'll demonstrate the fuzziness of these things (again, IMO) 
	in much starker terms than would just using a scanner.

	Another project would be to collect all our number theory
	and abstract algebra books, and type in verbatim the sections
	on RSA.  These usually contain instructions somewhere between
	pseudocode and conversational English.  If someone could 
	for a Masters thesis develop a program capable of reading 
	that stuff...

							-Caj




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John R Levine 
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 11:20:03 -0700 (PDT)
To: "Arnold G. Reinhold" 
Subject: Re: IP: "CyberCash can't oust credit cards"
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


> >2. Three orders of magnitude cost reduction.

CyberCash's entire business model for e-cash is wrong.  They ask for a 4%
slice of each transaction, which is absurd.  How much do issuers of real cash
ask per transaction?  Zero, of course. 

As I've mentioned before, the way you make money with money is seignorage,
that is you print it and make your profit on the float and on coins that are
never redeemed.  Works great for travellers checks.  I suspect that Bob H.
would agree. 

Regards,
John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Information Superhighwayman wanna-be, http://iecc.com/johnl, Sewer Commissioner
Finger for PGP key, f'print = 3A 5B D0 3F D9 A0 6A A4  2D AC 1E 9E A6 36 A3 47 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: zida27@aol.com (Your Home Town)
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 07:26:27 -0700 (PDT)
To: zida27@aol.com
Subject: Your Home Town Provides Everything You Need
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MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 14:04:16 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: US to Ease Crypto Export
In-Reply-To: <199807071517.LAA25263@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <199807072104.RAA13648@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


There's a bit more on this from the Dept of Commerce.
A press release that outlines the new policy and
lists the 45 select countries:

   http://jya.com/doc-ease.htm

Secretary Daley's speech today on broad export policy 
that touches on the crypto relaxation:

   http://jya.com/daley-expo.htm

BXA Under Secretary Reinsch's speech today:

   http://www.bxa.doc.gov/press/98/BillUPDS.html

The specific guidelines for easing of controls have not
yet been issued, as far as we can learn.

--------

The Junger decision is being scanned, later this evening
Peter will announce it.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: listmaster@extensis.com
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 18:54:17 -0700 (PDT)
To: undisclosed-recipients:;
Subject: Announcing Extensis Preflight Pro 2.0
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 18:07:45 -0700 (PDT)
To: ukcrypto@maillist.ox.ac.uk
Subject: thinking about you and http://www.qainfo.se/~lb/crypto_ag.htm
Message-ID: <35A2C56C.6A03@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Tuesday 7/7/98 6:57 PM

Laszlo Baranyi

You DID NOT mention the Swiss radio international radio broadcasts.

http://www.qainfo.se/~lb/crypto_ag.htm

Rep McKinney and Sen Grassley now have copies.

Send me a snail mail address and I will send you a copy.

Using postcard, of course

 pob 14838
 abq, nm 87191
 usa

Gustavus J Simmons

  Cryptanalysis and Protocol Failures

  COMMUNICATIONS OF THE ACM, November 1994, vol 37, no 11, page 56

The 'spiking' story, in obscure language.

Simmons and R J Hanson http://sina.tcamc.uh.edu/~haskell/rjh/rjhres.html
were two of the most responsible people for me coming to Sandia from
Washington State U.

Here are two of my former Ph.D. students in computer science from wsu.

http://www.mhpcc.edu/general/john.html
http://www.friction-free-economy.com

NSA employee PAUL BRIDGE in about 1987 told me that Simmons was a
security risk and that I should not talk to Simmons.

In about 1992 I figured out something was fishy and began to talk to
Simmons again.

Simmons told me that he asked NSA employees Morris and Proto

  1  NSA is sorry it delegated responsibility for implementation
     of electronic locks in the us nuclear arsenal to Sandia.

  2  NSA wants the business back.

Simmons told me neither Morris or Proto would respond to his question.

Let's ALL   http://www.wpiran.org/  hope for settlement of this
UNFORTUNATE MESS.

bill






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED/EUREKA! 
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 13:36:45 -0700 (PDT)
To: All Eureka/Stuffed Subscribers: ;
Subject: Kings & Queens/George Michael/Knocked up with NyQuil
Message-ID: <19980707193242.4256.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/html

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 11:41:03 -0700 (PDT)
To: cryptography@c2.net
Subject: RE: Junger et al.
Message-ID: <199807071841.UAA18158@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Nevermind that source code is suppose to be "human readable" material that
is _translated_ into function instructions of machine code.

A play is normally considered 'protected' free speech under US law, but
what if robot was created which acted out the play and Gwin's argument was
extended to apply the situtation where a play performed. Would the play
itself no longer be a protected form of free speech, because it is seen as
"functional" instructions to the robot actor? Would the playwrite become
responsible for the robot's actions, such as killing a character/actor?

As a programmer, I have "acted out" source code myself, as part of the
debugging process. It is normally called "a walkthrough," so the difference
between source code and a play is not as broad as some people may view it.
I have followed the source code like a script, acting out the instructions
like stage directions in a play.

Does it matter who might 'read' the material, in regards to the protection
of free speech? Whether it is written so that Russians or computers might
be able to read it? If source code is written on a napkin, it can be
currently exported, but what if tomorrow a vendor announces a 'napkin
computer' which can directly read from napkins akin to a super-low densiy
floppy disc.


At 07:20 PM 7/6/98 -0700, Ernest Hua wrote:
>Did anyone demonstrate the "functionalness" of any arbitrary language
>via a scanner and a compiler?
>
>Why doesn't Gwin understand that the moment one successfully claims that
>a specific class of source code is not speech by the virtue of the fact
>that a compiler can transform it automatically into executable code
>which performs a function, then ANY speech of ANY sort is fundamentally
>vulnerable to being classified as functional as soon as a compiler can
>transform it into real machine code.
>
>Ern
>
>	-----Original Message-----
>	From:	jkthomson [SMTP:jkthomson@bigfoot.com]
>	Sent:	Monday, July 06, 1998 7:12 PM


>	Reuters
>
>3:40pm  6.Jul.98.PDT WASHINGTON -- A district court has dismissed a law
>professor's challenge to US regulations strictly limiting the export of
>computer data-scrambling technology.
>
>Judge James Gwin ruled late Friday that the export limits, which prevented
>Case Western Reserve University Law School professor Peter Junger from
>posting the text of encryption programs on the Internet, did not violate
>the constitutional right to free speech.
>
>The Ohio court's ruling contradicts a California district court ruling last
>August that said source code -- the instructions a person writes telling
>the computer what actions to perform -- constitutes a form of speech
>subject to First Amendment protection.
>
>"Unlike instructions, a manual or a recipe, source code actually performs
>the function it describes," Gwin wrote. "While a recipe provides
>instructions to a cook, source code is a device, like embedded circuitry in
>a telephone, that actually does the function of encryption."





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 12:27:01 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: A note on the latest randomness quarrel
Message-ID: <199807071927.VAA23471@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


* Never use "the lowest few bits" or (t1>t2)?1:0 for the actual random
number generation.

You only use things like that for estimating the amount of entropy in a
source. The number of bits of entropy in a pile of bits is one more than
the base-two logarithm of the average number of guesses required of a
badguy knowing your condidtioning routine, observing what it can, and
interfering with your generator to figure out the value of the bits in the
pile, so if your studies and statistical analyses estimate that it
requires 2^127 guesses to guess the output of your conditioning routine,
good for you, you've estimated that somewhere in its input are 128 bits of
entropy. 

Um, I digress...point is, don't use that output straight. Take twice as
much unconditioned input, non-random-looking stuff and all, as you
estimate your conditioning routine needs to produce a key's worth of
entropy and _hash_it_. Your conditioning routine can introduce some little
bias you didn't see or make some unnoticed mistake that lets through
predictable bits. Hashing can, too, but we've studied the hash functions
to make sure they're good a lot more than we've studied your conditioning
procedure.

* A badguy's introduction of extra events doesn't poison your randomness.

A badguy could introduce a multitude of predictable-but-random-looking
events to make your generator close shop before it has enough
unpredictable events to get its entropy. However, that only works if extra
events make your generator stop collecting earlier. The amount of time it
spends collecting randomness shouldn't depend on _any_ output of the
generator, because that needlessly leaks entropy.

Also, a badguy could introduce two nearly-simultaneous events near the
beginning of the process, when it can be fairly sure that the wait between
its events and the previous event will make a zero or make the lowest few
bits of the delay between the bits match a certain value. (Interpreting
that sentence is left as an exercise to the reader :) However, you can
only do this in a system where your conditioning routine allows extra
events to cause the routine to output bad bets. However, if you hash your
raw data rather than using one of those conditioning routines, it's nearly
-- nearly, that's your cue to say it has to be always -- impossible to
weaken the output without knowing the other data hashed. 

Third, el badguy could introduce so many events that the gap between
events was always less than the measurement threshhold. However, note that
the Geiger counter, the computer, and the operator would all fail under
these circumstances. 

Therefore, pretty much any strategy allowing extra events to kill entropy
is flawed. 

================================================================================
	/// anonymous : nobody@replay.com : http://replay.com ///
================================================================================





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 19:16:11 -0700 (PDT)
To: John R Levine 
Subject: Re: IP: "CyberCash can't oust credit cards"
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 2:19 PM -0400 on 7/7/98, John R Levine wrote:


> CyberCash's entire business model for e-cash is wrong.  They ask for a 4%
> slice of each transaction, which is absurd.  How much do issuers of real cash
> ask per transaction?  Zero, of course.
>
> As I've mentioned before, the way you make money with money is seignorage,
> that is you print it and make your profit on the float and on coins that are
> never redeemed.  Works great for travellers checks.  I suspect that Bob H.
> would agree.

Pretty much. Actually, the model I like is one where transactions on the
net are free, but putting money *on* the net costs some smidge of money,
just like buying traveller's checks cost money, something like one or two
percent, I think.

You can't get any network effects, oddly enough, if you charge to take it
*off* the net, because merchants have to *pay* to participate. It would be
as if you had to pay to redeem a traveller's check. If that were the case
nobody would accept them. Pretty serious seignorage loss that would cause.
:-).

Again, I've a white paper on this. If anyone's interested, I'll send it to
them offline.  And, again, the dbs list folks have already seen it. :-).

Speaking of gratuitous plugs ;-), there are only two more days until I
close the subscription book on the symposium, and I still have some room.
See  and register now, if you
want to go.

Cheers,
Bob
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The Philodox Symposium on Digital Bearer Transaction Settlement
  July 23-24, 1998: 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 16:32:49 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Apology
Message-ID: <199807072332.BAA17497@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Might have just posted a message intended for coderpunks to the list,
depending on whether toad still forwards.  Sorry. 






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: webmaster@nudevision.com
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 20:12:57 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: FREE XXX VIDEO for your site !!
Message-ID: <03024203507064@nudevision.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSqncrs@aol.com
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 02:05:26 -0700 (PDT)
To: Cypherpunks@toad.com (coolness)
Subject: New Page!
Message-ID: <634411ef.35a3361e@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I made another page, which details what Capital records did to Dark Side of
the Moon when they reissued on cd.  Guess what they covered-up.  :-)  Check it
out,

Stan,
The Desecration of 'The Dark Side of the Moon'
http://members.tripod.com/StanSqncrs/DarkSide/darkside.html




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: hizaici72@prodigy.com
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 11:28:13 -0700 (PDT)
To: hizaici72@prodigy.com
Subject: Join StarDates.com, The Internet's Best FREE Dating Service!
Message-ID: <199807081009OAA45295@pimaia7y.csd.unbsj.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: mgraffam@mhv.net
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 02:43:42 -0700 (PDT)
To: Mok-Kong Shen 
Subject: Re: Junger et al.
In-Reply-To: <35A32D1C.C9CE9598@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Wed, 8 Jul 1998, Mok-Kong Shen wrote:
> Put the source code on a neuro-disk and you can export it under
> any crypto law that can ever be invented till eternity.

Maybe.. or we'll all be outlaws.. one of the two.

Michael J. Graffam (mgraffam@mhv.net)
http://www.mhv.net/~mgraffam -- Philosophy, Religion, Computers, Crypto, etc
"86% of conspiracy theories have some basis in truth... but, oddly enough,
it's that last 14% that usually gets you killed." 
    --Talas (http://cadvantage.com/~algaeman/conspiracy/public.htm)





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ryan Lackey 
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 03:41:44 -0700 (PDT)
To: Robert Hettinga 
Subject: Re: IP: "CyberCash can't oust credit cards"
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199807081041.GAA16194@tana.mit.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Bob Hettinga wrote:
> At 2:19 PM -0400 on 7/7/98, John R Levine wrote:
> 
> 
> > CyberCash's entire business model for e-cash is wrong.  They ask for a 4%
> > slice of each transaction, which is absurd.  How much do issuers of real 
> > cash
> > ask per transaction?  Zero, of course.
> >
> > As I've mentioned before, the way you make money with money is seignorage,
> > that is you print it and make your profit on the float and on coins that are
> > never redeemed.  Works great for travellers checks.  I suspect that Bob H.
> > would agree.
> 
> Pretty much. Actually, the model I like is one where transactions on the
> net are free, but putting money *on* the net costs some smidge of money,
> just like buying traveller's checks cost money, something like one or two
> percent, I think.
> 
> You can't get any network effects, oddly enough, if you charge to take it
> *off* the net, because merchants have to *pay* to participate. It would be
> as if you had to pay to redeem a traveller's check. If that were the case
> nobody would accept them. Pretty serious seignorage loss that would cause.
> :-).

Haven't you said in the past that the *consumer* can't be charged anything to
use the system in the way of fees (consumer being the party bringing money into
the system), and that all fees need to get charged to the merchant (or whoever
the party is who removes money from the system)?

Certainly, at first order, the fee *should* be on removing money from the 
system, from a selfish point of view on the part of Ivan the Issuer -- if 
you're making money on seignorage, you're making money when people add money
to the system *and leave it there*.  Thus, you want to provide incentives for
people to buy money and leave it there -- charging no "on" fees and minimal
"off" fees would do it.  To ensure that people have faith in the cheap
convertability of electronic cash to real money, you could provide a highly
regressive fee structure for taking money out of the system -- if people
end up only redeeming their stuff through middlemen in huge batches, the
fees will go down very fast, and so will your costs.  The percentage cost
of shipping a billion dollars to a major customer in exchange for a billion
dollar token is much lower than shipping one billion one dollar bills to
a bunch of holders of one dollar tokens.  (This is an argument for regressive
fees, not for charging out rather than in, since it would apply just as well
to those who bought a billion tokens and then resold them, of course)

>From a *technical* standpoint, it makes sense to design an electronic cash
system to allow cheap coin-for-coin exchanges.  The marginal cost of a
transaction like this *is* 3 orders of magnitude less than one involving
a back-office system and wire transfer.  *This* is why electronic cash is
3 orders of magnitude cheaper than existing systems.  If you kludge a back
office system, a debit card system, and a wire transfer system onto the
backend, transactions going through that system don't get any cheaper than they
wold be in an unregulated traditional offshore bank.  As an issuer, you want
as few back-office processed transactions as possible, and those you do have,
should be as large as possible.

A better example is the credit card, rather than the traveler's check.  I've
*never* used a traveler's check, since I'm fundamentally annoyed by the idea
that I'd have to pay a fee to put my money into the system.  The *vast* 
majority
of consumers are unwilling to pay a fee to conduct a transaction they can
conduct in another way for free -- credit cards, cash, personal checks, wire
transfer, or whatever.  Merchants *already* pay money to handle money -- it's
just another cost of doing business.  For a merchant, processing *cash* costs
money, credit cards cost 1-4%, and I'm sure traveler's checks cost *something*
to handle.  I think it's a fundamental principle of financial psychology that
the resistance in going from a free service to a slightly charged service is
far higher than even a much larger increase in a service that already costs
money.

I think the ideal fee structure for an electronic cash issuer is:
* No cost to exchange coin-for-coin.  These cost you microcents anyway.
* Minimal (zero) cost to the public to issue cash.  This could be done by
selling large blocks of tokens at cost to issuers who are already in contact
with the public, and who get some kind of tangible benefit from processing
the transaction for the customer -- a pre-existing banking relationship that
wants a value-add, a retail store, a web site with advertising, whatever.
Primary market cash issuing might have a highly regressive fee structure, to
force secondary markets to come into being, but this is not essential.
* Secondary market redemption costs which *also* go to zero due to many 
players,
for the same reason as issuance.  Primary market should charge enough to
recoup redemption costs (charge for the wire transfer, or whatever), and 
potentially a regressive structure to help pay for operations costs.  
Optionally, the issuer could link through a proprietary and cheap protocol
their own bank accounts to the redemption of cash, making it much cheaper for
customers of the issuer's bank to redeem cash.  This is related to seignorage,
if these bank accounts are at the same bank which holds the backing accounts
for the currency.

A lot of people have discussed this fee structure, and I agree with them that
it is the best.

AFAIK, Mark Twain had a somewhat opposite fee structure, and look at how
successful they were...

This model is not really the credit card model (charge per transaction), nor
it is the traveler's check model.  It is the *cash* model -- banks and cash
handling companies charge handling fees for dealing with large quantities of
paper bills.  Think of user-to-user transactions as secondary market, 
withdrawing cash from the bank as primary market withdrawal, and exchanging
electronic cash for fiat money as the (currently hypothetical) step of 
redeeming bank notes for their backing, or something similar to taking physical
cash from retailer tills and getting it deposited to a cash management account.

It is electronic *cash*, after all.
-- 
Ryan Lackey
rdl@mit.edu
http://sof.mit.edu/rdl/		






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 05:17:29 -0700 (PDT)
To: Ryan Lackey 
Subject: Re: IP: "CyberCash can't oust credit cards"
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 6:41 AM -0400 on 7/8/98, Ryan Lackey wrote:



> Haven't you said in the past that the *consumer* can't be charged anything to
> use the system in the way of fees (consumer being the party bringing
>money into
> the system), and that all fees need to get charged to the merchant (or
>whoever
> the party is who removes money from the system)?

Nope, and, if I did, I was wrong. :-).

You probably can't bootstrap things on seignorage alone, I don't
think, but if you did, again, you would kill your digital
cash issue anyway, because of lack of merchant acceptance, especailly in
the early phases.

Note, in my canonical example, cash, that people already pay a fee for
"foreign" ATM withdrawls anyway, and people are used to doing things that
way. That's great, because I expect that margins on a net.ATM withdrawl
through an underwriter would be significantly higher than what a bank makes
on their non-customer ATM transactions. Three orders of magnitude cheaper?
I wouldn't be surprised.

> Certainly, at first order, the fee *should* be on removing money from the
> system, from a selfish point of view on the part of Ivan the Issuer -- if
> you're making money on seignorage, you're making money when people add money
> to the system *and leave it there*.  Thus, you want to provide incentives for
> people to buy money and leave it there -- charging no "on" fees and minimal
> "off" fees would do it.

Yup. But, oddly enough, that was Mark Twain's (final) fee structure, too.
Didn't save them in the end, though.

I just think that if merchants are the key to acceptance of digital bearer
cash, much less fully anonymous blinded digital bearer cash :-), then you
shouldn't charge merchants anything to accept the stuff. If a merchant can
download a wallet or registerware free or very cheap, and instantly start
taking cash payments for whatever they sell over the net, and, when it came
time to take that cash and put it into their own bank it didn't cost them
anything to do it, then they would probably accept the stuff a heartbeat.
The cost of anything is the foregone alternative, three orders of
magnitude, and all that and "free" comes pretty close to three orders of
magnitude in cost reduction from merchant credit card fees in my book. :-).

The other beneficiary, in terms of cost, of course, is both the
underwriter, who's issuing cash for rediculously cheaper than a
corresponding volume of noncustomer.meat.ATM transactions would cost, not
to mention *some* seignorage :-), and the trustee, who's getting a share of
both for something they do already for the mutual fund and stock/bond
transfer markets.

I see seignorage as a tasty long-view source of income, certainly, but I
expect the half-life of a given dollar of digital cash to be measured in
days, if not hours, in the early stages. Frankly, I don't see seignorage
showing up significantly on the income statement of an underwriter until
there are other bearer instruments (stocks, bonds, and especially mutual
fund shares) to invest that cash in, keeping it on the net.

I think that that's one of the reasons that the Fed, among other people,
aren't too worried about the immediate macroeconomic effects of digital
cash. That and that the Fed's seignorage income, in the overall scheme of
Fed revenues, is pretty small, and probably dwarfed by other things like
printing and handling costs, etc. Greenspan himself is/was a free banking
advocate, certainly, and has said publically (see last September's Official
Cypherpunk Forbes issue :-)) that he thinks that private electronic
banknote issue is not a scary proposition at all.

Anyway, by the time that there are other digital bearer instruments out
there, and the money supply gets affected by digital cash seignorage, much
less fractional reserve accounts, (which *will* happen as competition heats
up and, someday even traveller's-check-type purchase premia on digital cash
will go away [*some*day!]), then the central bankers will have other things
to worry about besides just the impact if digital bearer settlement on
their money supply. Problems like why have *national* instead of private,
currencies, anyway. :-).

Nice problem to have, I figure.


Cheers,
Bob Hettinga
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The Philodox Symposium on Digital Bearer Transaction Settlement
  July 23-24, 1998: 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 05:37:28 -0700 (PDT)
To: Greg Broiles 
Subject: Re: Initial summary/analysis: Junger v. Daley
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199807081237.IAA10722@camel7.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Thanks to Greg for the excellent summary and analysis.
Responses by Peter Junger and his attorneys, those
involved with Bernstein and Karn, and others on the
technical and legal interpretation would be welcome.

On the interplay among the three cases: We have heard 
that there was meeting in DC of the three teams with the 
US side. And that there may have been a report on this 
meeting at the recent DC security conference. Is there a 
public report available?

Note: Greg meant to quote Judge Gwin on source code: 
"all but *un*intelligible to most people."

The contrast between Patel and Gwin remind of the
campaign of Wassenaar members to claim relaxation
of crypto controls while not truly doing so, as in the
recent Irish and US press release deceptions. More
are expected as the US trade and crypto czars make
their global rounds to arrange overt-covert deals for
marketing munitions. The complicity of the banks 
and giant corps is not surprising with their legacy of 
doing just that -- as one defense expert says, expect 
ex-gov crypto watchdogs to aid the market titans to lure 
government buyers while peddling cheap knockoffs
to voters.

Amazing that the NYT sent up that trial balloon for
government access to key strokes in lieu of GAK.
Who's pushing that, working on the technology?






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Trei, Peter" 
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 06:52:54 -0700 (PDT)
To: "'Mok-Kong Shen'" 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Mok-Kong Shen [SMTP:mok-kong.shen@stud.uni-muenchen.de]
> Anonymous wrote:
> 
> > Does it matter who might 'read' the material, in regards to the
> protection
> > of free speech? Whether it is written so that Russians or computers
> might
> > be able to read it? If source code is written on a napkin, it can be
> > currently exported, but what if tomorrow a vendor announces a 'napkin
> > computer' which can directly read from napkins akin to a super-low
> densiy
> > floppy disc.
> 
> Put the source code on a neuro-disk and you can export it under
> any crypto law that can ever be invented till eternity.
> 
> M. K. Shen
	[Trei, Peter]  

	Tell that to the thousands forbidden to leave the nations
	which claim or claimed to own them, on the basis that they
	once had access to state secrets.

	The thankfully defunct Soviet Union regularly forbade 
	dissidents to emigrate, on the basis that at some point
	in their lives they had had access to 'sensitive' information.

	I have no doubt that similar restrictions could be put in
	place in other nations.

	Peter Trei





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mok-Kong Shen 
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 01:26:34 -0700 (PDT)
To: cryptography@c2.net
Subject: Re: Junger et al.
In-Reply-To: <199807071841.UAA18158@basement.replay.com>
Message-ID: <35A32D1C.C9CE9598@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Anonymous wrote:

> Does it matter who might 'read' the material, in regards to the protection
> of free speech? Whether it is written so that Russians or computers might
> be able to read it? If source code is written on a napkin, it can be
> currently exported, but what if tomorrow a vendor announces a 'napkin
> computer' which can directly read from napkins akin to a super-low densiy
> floppy disc.

Put the source code on a neuro-disk and you can export it under
any crypto law that can ever be invented till eternity.

M. K. Shen




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ed Gerck 
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 06:49:14 -0700 (PDT)
To: cryptography@c2.net
Subject: Ephemeral, was RE: Junger et al.
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Regarding my comment below:

>Ed Gerck writes:
>[...]
> > BTW, I think that Gwin was struggling to express the notion that
> > source code (syntax) is a device whenever there is a clear binding
> > between that source code and known semantics, together with proper
> > pragmatics (the enviroment, as defined in semiotics), in order to
> > perform the desired function. 
>

I received some private postings which questioned it by questioning
its logical consequences, as for example:

>So the judge should forbid publishing/export of Applied Cryptography
>and the PGP Book with source code, right ?
>

First, IMO, this subject is hard to discuss because it is politically
involved and also applies just to a particular set of countries -- so
it is not based on a "universal" ruling.

Further, I also think it is absurd to try to outlaw cryptography
because it is essential and not just to obtain privacy (as in my
posting on logical semantics and crypto, some months ago [1]). 

In fact, I think that cryptography is needed to provide *secure
routing* [1] (a property that is more basic than secure content and
which I think will be impossible to forbid in the future). However, I
also think that the arguments being thought by each side may carry
their own intrinsic worth.

Further, even though the whole subject is IMO ephemeral because
unworkable, some of those arguments may have a far reaching
consequence and transcend the issue. Should we overlook that? IMO,
no. Even thrash can be recycled ;-)

My remark above was in this line of reasoning. So, it ought not to be
extrapolated to printed books -- I am not at all concerned about the
legal aspects. In fact, laws can be wrong and IMO this is a clear
example. 

But, regarding printed books -- yes, the comment above (and others in
that line) are right. If this logic exercise is carried to its fully
immoral end, then books should not be allowed to carry complete and
workable source code. Which does not show that the argument is
illogical, just immoral. Technically, the argument is sound.

As Hume pointed out a long time ago, if we were guided only by reason
and logic then surely I should prefer to destroy the rest of the
world instead of enduring even a small pain in one of my fingers.
While this shows that logic is not all, it also shows that one cannot
deny logic by moral or ethics but rather define what precedes what in
case of conflict, for each society.

While this can have different answers for different societies, eg
where in some suicide is moral, the cryptography issue may take a
different twist if the link to secure routing is further investigated
and cryptography is not only used just for secure content as it is
today.



Thanks,

Ed Gerck
  
===========
Reference:

[1] http://www.mcg.org.br/trustdef.htm#A.4.1

______________________________________________________________________
Dr.rer.nat. E. Gerck                     egerck@novaware.cps.softex.br
http://novaware.cps.softex.br
    --- Meta-Certificate Group member, http://www.mcg.org.br ---







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 03:32:02 -0700 (PDT)
To: jim.burnes@ssds.com
Subject: RSA in perl illegal to export (Re: Junger et al.)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199807081004.LAA13983@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Burnes writes:
> Obviously there is no difference between 10 lines of PERL and
> 1500 lines of assembler (or machine code).  

One of Peter Junger's examples (I think used in the case) is the RSA
in 2/3 lines.  He actually obtained the US export administrations
written decisions on which of a small collection of titchy programs
was exportable.  RSA in 3 lines of perl they stated was illegal to
export.

So fun things with RSA are possible because they have decided that it
is not exportable, so perhaps you could export it on a floppy, or as
your .signature, with media cameras rolling, and try to get yourself
arrested for willful violation of dumb export laws.

Adam
-- 
Have you exported RSA today? --> http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/

print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<>
)]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 08:10:47 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Junger Press Release
Message-ID: <199807081510.LAA01265@camel14.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


To: jvd-announce@samsara.law.cwru.edu
Subject: Press Release: Judge holds software is not protected speech
Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 09:39:36 -0300
From: "Junger v. Daley Announcements" 



		  Federal District Court Holds That
     Software Publishers Are Not Protected by the First Amendment

	Government Wins Summary Judgment in Junger v. Daley

	      Judge Gwin's Opinion Is Available on Line

   ----------------------------------------------------------------

	     Cleveland, Ohio, Wednesday, July 8, 1998
			For Immediate Release

            
		    For More Information Contact:
		    Peter D. Junger (216) 368-2535
		    

		    Raymond Vasvari (216) 662-1780
		   


	Or see URL: http://samsara.law.cwru.edu/comp_law/jvd/
To be added to, or removed from, the list of those who were sent this
press release, please send e-mail to .

     _________________________________________________________________
   
Cleveland, Ohio, July 8 -- 

On July 3, 1998 Judge Gwin of the United States District Court of the
Northern District of Ohio held that computer programs are not writings
protected by the constitution because they are ``inherently
functional'' and granted summary judgment dismissing a suit
challenging regulations that forbid the publication of encryption
programs on the Internet or the World Wide Web.

The suit was brought by Peter Junger, a law professor at Case Western
Reserve University in Cleveland, to enjoin the enforcement of export
regulations on encryption software that prevent him from publishing
his class materials and articles for his course in Computing and the
Law on the Internet because they contain some encryption programs.  
Junger claimed in his suit that those encryption programs were
writings that were entitled to the full protection of the First
Amendment.  ``Of course they are writings,'' Junger says, ``I know
because I wrote some of them.  And I need to be able to publish them
if I am ever going to be able to explain to lawyers and law students
how computers work and how the law should be applied to computing.''

The government, on the other hand, argued that its export regulations,
which require that one obtain a license from the Commerce Department
before publishing materials containing encryption software on the
Internet or the World Wide Web, seek only to restrict the distribution
of encryption software itself, not ideas on encryption.  And Judge
Gwin agreed with the government, finding that: ``the Export
Regulations are constitutional because encryption source code is
inherently functional, because the Export Regulations are not directed
at source code's expressive elements, and because the Export
Regulations do not reach academic discussions of software, or software
in print form.''

In a related case in California brought by mathematics professor
Daniel Bernstein, Federal District Court Judge Patel held that
computer programs are speech that is protected by the First Amendment,
but Judge Gwin rejected that argument, saying: ``The Bernstein court's

assertion that `language equals protected speech' is unsound. `Speech'
is not protected simply because we write it in a language.''  It is
Judge Gwin's position that computer source code is a purely functional
device: ``The court in Bernstein misunderstood the significance of
source code's functionality. Source code is `purely functional,' in a
way that the Bernstein Court's examples of instructions, manuals, and
recipes are not.  Unlike instructions, a manual, or a recipe, source
code actually performs the function it describes. While a recipe
provides instructions to a cook, source code is a device, like
embedded circuitry in a telephone, that actually does the function of
encryption.''

There is thus a clear split between the two courts: Judge Patel
holding that computer software is protected by the First Amendment and
Judge Gwin holding that it isn't.  The Bernstein case is on appeal and
Professor Junger says that he intends to appeal Judge Gwin's decision:
``We have had almost no financial support for this case, but the issue
of whether encryption software and software in general is protected
like other writings under the First Amendment, or whether it is to be
treated as a special exception like obscenity and fighting words as Judge
Gwin held, is so important that we will have to scrape up the
resources somehow to bring an appeal.''

Judge Gwin's opinion is now available at 
and is mirrored at .


				-30-






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Charlie_Kaufman@iris.com
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 08:26:32 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Lotus Notes signature / encryption
Message-ID: <8525663B.005553FE.00@arista.iris.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


>Could someone kindly tell me about the drawbacks of the Lotus Notes
>signature / encryption system (export version)?

I guess my first question would be "compared to what?".

Compared to the Lotus Notes domestic version, the crypto is weaker
in two ways. First, there is a backdoor by which all but 40 bits of
each symmetric key is encrypted under a public key whose private half
is known to the U.S. government. This encrypted value is included in
all messages where the key is passed aroung. Depending on how you feel
about breaking 40 bit keys, this means it is somewhere between easy and
trivial for the U.S. government to eavesdrop on your communications
It also uses 512 bit RSA keys for distribution of encryption keys,
which makes it attackable by attackers other than the U.S. government.
While no one has ever publicly demonstrated breaking a 512 bit RSA key
(last I heard), the workfactor is well understood and it's clearly
feasible (and in fact overdue).

Compared to exportable versions of S/MIME or SSL, the crypto is
considerably stronger. Against attackers other than the U.S. government
(and even a paranoid would admit there are other attackers to be
concerned about (e.g. the French government)), the workfactor to
attack the symmetric keys is 64 bits - a little shakey but not the
weakest link in most systems. Further, RSA signature keys are 630 bits,
which is better than most exportable systems.

Compared to non-exportable (but internationally available) systems, like
PGP and strong S/MIME and SSL, the crypto is substantially weaker.

Another aspect to consider is the strength of the PKI. Lotus Notes uses
an organizationally based PKI, meaning that to a large degree your
security depends on the trustworthiness and competence of your system
administrator. With PGP, your security is under your own control to a
much larger degree. For people who are more security aware than their
administrators (as most PGP users are), the PGP PKI offers better security.
For people who are less security aware than their administrators (as
most Lotus Notes users are), the Lotus Notes PKI offers better security.

Finally, a "drawback" that might be relevant to this group is the fact
that because the Lotus Notes export version has a key-escrow-like
backdoor, using it offers tacit political endorsement for the
U.S. government's contention that key escrow is a technically practical
compromise between the needs of users for privacy and the "needs" of
government to know all the secrets of everyone on the planet. In my
mind, this argues strongly in favor of using real strong crypto if
that is an option, but using weak crypto as an alternative is offering
tacit political endorsement for the even more dangerous contention that
weak crypto is good enough. Your mileage may vary.

     --Charlie Kaufman
     (charlie_kaufman@iris.com)






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 12:12:17 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Covert Access to Data and ID
Message-ID: <199807081547.LAA21623@camel14.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Dave Emery's remarks on government access to
keystrokes (proposed by the NYT as an alternative
to GAK) points to the probable increase of intrusive
devices to counter increasing use of encryption
and other privacy and anonymity measures.

This topic comes up here now and then, with
mentions of a slew of methods to protect privacy of 
data during transmission or storage. But the possibility
of logging the initial creation or manipulation of data is
not as often discussed, nor how to tie a person to
the data, as now being asked in legal and law
enforcement fora to identify, catch, convict and
jail computer culprits.

That the NYT floated the idea surely means someone
is testing public response to an idea that seems to
be more intrusive than GAK: the logging of initial
data and any manipulation of it, prior to encrypting,
and maybe including a means to link the actions to
the user.

If this is logging (and related retrieval) is done covertly, 
encryption could thereby become a falsely reassuring 
cloak of privacy.

Dave thinks devices like these are surely in the works,
and he can say more about their sponsors, technologies 
and implementations.

One driving force, as he previously noted, is the desire
for devices to assure copyright protection, backed by the 
WIPO treaty, which now being considered for approval. 
See the House report on it at:

   http://jya.com/hr105-551.txt  (141K)

And the EFF and ACLU opposition to it:

   hr2281-opp.htm

Other forces, though, are employers who want to snoop,
law enforcement, government, marketers, actually the
same groups who dislike privacy protection measures,
but often prefer to snoop covertly while loudly proclaiming
support for privacy.

Thus, the more general question Dave has raised is how
widespread is the development and implementation of
technolgies for covert surveillance on the Web and in 
desktop boxes -- happily spreading quietly while attention 
is focussed on the very encryption which it will circumvent?

And what are these devices, or what might they be, what 
might be countermeasures and who might be working for 
and against them. SDA must have insights to share.

Over to Dave Emery and those more knowledgeable. 

For those who missed his earlier message we've put it, with a 
follow-up at:

   http://jya.com/gaks-de.htm







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: CTIA Daily News 
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 10:51:21 -0700 (PDT)
To: CTIA Daily News 
Subject: CTIA Daily News from WOW-COM - July 8, 1998
Message-ID: <199807081644.LAA14528@mailstrom.revnet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



=============================================
Welcome to today's edition of the CTIA Daily News
from WOW-COM.  Please click on the icon / attachment
for the most important news in wireless communications today.
=============================================


From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Xena - Warrior Princess 
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 12:25:44 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: U.S. relaxes licensing grip on encryption
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





(From the Mercury News, see subject line)

http://www.sjmercury.com/business/center/encrypt070898.htm



It's a start, at least.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 12:07:14 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Jim Bell Message
Message-ID: <199807081600.MAA05747@camel14.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Forwarded from a long-time cpunk who received a call 
from Jim Bell yesterday. Jim asked that this message be 
publicized:

7/7/98

By this post he is publically accusing the Federal Government 
of having spied on him from two physical addresses.  These are 
two houses to the North & to the East of his parent's house.  
The government moved in within 6 months (approx) of the time 
before his arrest.

One of the addresses is 7217 Mississippi, which is listed as 
"Billy King", who died a couple of years ago.  The  house is 
ostensibly being occupied by his widow (or that is the
impression).  It is listed as being as owned by Alverna King, 
but he has his doubts.

The other is address is 7302 Corregidor, purchased about 2.5 - 3 
years ago by someone. Listed as being the address of Sundown 
Development, a small business company.  A second floor was added 
soon after it was acquired by the company.  They aren't listed as 
the owners on record, but they are listed as being at that address.  
Thinks this is a sham.

The govmt was basically next door spying on him for at least a 
year, before it started provoking him.  In response to his using 
the internet for freewheeling debate, they engaged in some 
bugging that is illegal under Washington State law.  It is illegal 
to use bugging without the knowledge of the participants.

He has developed a technique for identifying when someone is 
tailing him.  Found this on Father's day when some people got a 
little too close to him.  He drove to his Sister's party on Hayden 
Island in Oregon, and noticed the tails.  Identified them as Rixen 
Marine, which he thinks is a sham, another front organization.  One 
of the reasons he was arrested (though they're not willing to admit 
it) is because was way too successful in tailing _them_.  A few 
more days and he would have blown their entire operation.

He couldn't go into the details of how he found out these things. 
Did research & sophisticated observation. Will be getting friends 
to do searches in databases, etc. to gather more info to substantiate 
his suspicions.

He said his recent arrest was on a probation violation charge - 
failure to pay a fine or something, wasn't clear on the specifics.  
There will be a hearing on his case this Friday the 10th.

Prosecutors last year didn't know what the govmt was up to - not 
told of the spying (a "black operation").  Their method of spying 
on him are techniques which are possible, though rarely used.  If 
people knew they would be very surprised.  It will be a big story - 
big as Watergate - when it comes out.  Their usage of these high-tech 
methods for access is difficult, so not used often.    The government 
is trying to cover up their reaction to what he wrote in his essays.

-------------------







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ryan Lackey 
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 09:44:13 -0700 (PDT)
To: Robert Hettinga 
Subject: Re: IP: "CyberCash can't oust credit cards"
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199807081624.MAA18073@tana.mit.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Bob Hettinga wrote:
> At 6:41 AM -0400 on 7/8/98, Ryan Lackey wrote:
> You probably can't bootstrap things on seignorage alone, I don't
> think, but if you did, again, you would kill your digital
> cash issue anyway, because of lack of merchant acceptance, especailly in
> the early phases.
> 
I think you can bootstrap things on "value-add" to a bank, and on seignorage,
taken together.  It is *good business* for a bank to provide a service like
this.  It is one of those services, like online banking, ATMs, ubiquitous
branch locations (mmm, BankBoston...), private banking personnel, etc. which
make customers happier.  It is a good business case for a bank.

> Note, in my canonical example, cash, that people already pay a fee for
> "foreign" ATM withdrawls anyway, and people are used to doing things that
> way. That's great, because I expect that margins on a net.ATM withdrawl
> through an underwriter would be significantly higher than what a bank makes
> on their non-customer ATM transactions. Three orders of magnitude cheaper?
> I wouldn't be surprised.

My banks eat the foreign ATM costs as a customer value-add expense.
For the cash example, banks don't generally charge users to withdraw or
deposit money at a teller window, or at their own ATMs.  I think an online
bank dealing with electronic cash is more dealing with "internal" transactions
than with "foreign" transactions -- AFAIK, a lot of the foreign ATM charges
are charged by the foreign bank, which has no real interest in the user
doing anything but switching banks, anyway.
> 
> > Certainly, at first order, the fee *should* be on removing money from the
> > system, from a selfish point of view on the part of Ivan the Issuer -- if
> > you're making money on seignorage, you're making money when people add money
> > to the system *and leave it there*.  Thus, you want to provide incentives
> > for
> > people to buy money and leave it there -- charging no "on" fees and minimal
> > "off" fees would do it.
> 
> Yup. But, oddly enough, that was Mark Twain's (final) fee structure, too.
> Didn't save them in the end, though.

I argue that they had already shot their feet full of holes to the extent that
nothing they did would have saved them by that point, but Mark Twain is a 
complex enough example that it might be worth just ignoring.  I don't know
if their experiment will even be a footnote to the footnote to history that
is DigiCash.
> 
> I just think that if merchants are the key to acceptance of digital bearer
> cash, much less fully anonymous blinded digital bearer cash :-), then you
> shouldn't charge merchants anything to accept the stuff. If a merchant can
> download a wallet or registerware free or very cheap, and instantly start
> taking cash payments for whatever they sell over the net, and, when it came
> time to take that cash and put it into their own bank it didn't cost them
> anything to do it, then they would probably accept the stuff a heartbeat.
> The cost of anything is the foregone alternative, three orders of
> magnitude, and all that and "free" comes pretty close to three orders of
> magnitude in cost reduction from merchant credit card fees in my book. :-).

I've already shown why it is in the best interest of the issuer to participate.
The next step is to convince merchants it is worth doing.  Merchants, I 
believe,
are willing to accept a percentage redemption fee for a new payment system
if their customers demand it.  They fundamentally want to make their customers
happy.  If a lot of customers request a new payment scheme, or they are 
convinced customers want to use it, they will happily use a new payment scheme.

I think resistance to new payment schemes on the part of a merchant is in 
cost and effort to set up.  Having a free apache commerce plugin which handles
a variety of payment systems, including electronic cash, so the systems
integration costs for adding electronic cash to an operation are zero, and
they end up being cheaper than credit cards to process -- a 1% primary market
fee, or a going-to-zero percent secondary market fee.  Or, provide non-fee
incentives for merchants to accept the system -- loyalty points, tax-free 
accounting in offshore bank accounts, the Amex approach of marketing merchants
who accept the system to their client base directly, etc.

For a directed payment system, going from customer to merchant to bank, then
you definitely need merchants before you can get customers, which turns this
on its head. *However*, a good electronic cash system is user-to-user, the
Mondex model, rather than DigiCash's model.  This means the system can 
bootstrap
as soon as a single pair of people want to exchange money.  People already
want to exchange money user-to-user on the net -- there's a huge unsatisfied
demand.  That's more than enough to get it in place.  Making it anonymous
adds even more incentive.
> 
> I see seignorage as a tasty long-view source of income, certainly, but I
> expect the half-life of a given dollar of digital cash to be measured in
> days, if not hours, in the early stages. Frankly, I don't see seignorage
> showing up significantly on the income statement of an underwriter until
> there are other bearer instruments (stocks, bonds, and especially mutual
> fund shares) to invest that cash in, keeping it on the net.

The half-life of a given dollar of digital cash will be *infinite* if there
is an expanding base of users, a cheaper secondary market for getting 
electronic
cash than the cash out and cash back in system, and there is never a big panic.
The holding time for a particular user might be pretty short, but I think 
from the beginning a large amount of money will just be left on the net, since
it's far cheaper for a consumer to buy cash from a merchant directly than
for the merchant to cash out and the user to buy them on the primary market.
> 
> I think that that's one of the reasons that the Fed, among other people,
> aren't too worried about the immediate macroeconomic effects of digital
> cash. That and that the Fed's seignorage income, in the overall scheme of
> Fed revenues, is pretty small, and probably dwarfed by other things like
> printing and handling costs, etc. Greenspan himself is/was a free banking
> advocate, certainly, and has said publically (see last September's Official
> Cypherpunk Forbes issue :-)) that he thinks that private electronic
> banknote issue is not a scary proposition at all.

I thought seignorage was a net profit for the Fed, after printing/handling.
They *do* give the Treasury a kickback for this, and I'm not sure how the 
budget
actually works, but I think they pay all distribution/printing/etc. costs
themselves, and thus this is actually spare money.

It doesn't really apply here, since many of those costs are fundamentally 
different in the electronic cash world than in the printed cash world.

Greenspan is/was a libertarian, and would probably be ok with private 
electronic
banknotes putting him out of business, as long as it was better for the economy
and people as a whole.
-- 
Ryan Lackey
rdl@mit.edu
http://sof.mit.edu/rdl/		






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 11:03:21 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Covert Access to Data and ID
Message-ID: <199807081736.NAA11731@camel14.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Froward From: Anonymous
To: die@pig.die.com
Cc: jy@jya.com
Subject: Intel plans for world domination
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 10:51:04 -0500 

Good afternoon gentlemen,

I've been reading the correspondence on the possibility of govt
keystroke access with some interest. I'm in a slightly odd position as
I'm responsible for security in one of the larger wintel companies. As
such I've been getting quite a feeling of deja vu reading your mails.
Intel and others are moving in exactly this direction with a number of
initiatives, most notably the PC98, PCXX, and "Wired For Management".
WfM in particular is very scary - one of the components is a facility
for PC's to download and run digitally signed software before the OS is
booted - between "the end of BIOS initialisation and when control is
transferred to a high-level OS" in the words of one Intel document. The
code is verified by routines embedded in the BIOS and will allegedly use
some subset of X.509v3 and PKCS#1.

As so often happens in circumstances like this I can't risk passing
documents directly as I can't be sure of their provenance - I really
have no idea which ones are now considered trade secrets and which have
been made public. Instead I recommend you have a look at the Intel WfM
site http://www.intel.com/ial/wfm/ with particular reference to the
"Pre-Boot Execution Environment" (PXE) and "System Management BIOS"
(SMBIOS). The Microsoft pc98 site is at

   http://www.microsoft.com/hwdev/pc98.htm 

and the Intel one at

   http://developer.intel.com/design/pc98/.

----------

And, DM reminds of the DIRT program Ray Arachelian first posted
here:

There's an article on page 37 of the July 6, 1998 issue of
NetworkWorld about a new software product for Windows machines
that is basically a trojan horse that allows access to all
keystrokes and files on a system from a remote "America's
Most Wanted"-type HQ.  I can't find the article online
at www.networkworld.com, but you can go the the company's
site at 

   http://www.thecodex.com/dirt.html 

to see it.  Sale of DIRT is "restricted to military, government, and law
enforcement agencies", the article says.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 12:10:31 -0700 (PDT)
To: Ryan Lackey 
Subject: Re: IP: "CyberCash can't oust credit cards"
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 12:24 PM -0400 on 7/8/98, Ryan Lackey wrote:



> My banks eat the foreign ATM costs as a customer value-add expense.

Yes, but what do they do for customers of *other* banks? They *charge* them
for it. Which is exactly what any underwriter should do to put money onto
the net. There is no difference between an underwriter of digital cash and
a provider of a third-party cash machine, be it at a bank other than your
own, or, more equivalent, those private ATM machines you see all over the
place now.


> I argue that they had already shot their feet full of holes to the extent
>that
> nothing they did would have saved them by that point, but Mark Twain is a
> complex enough example that it might be worth just ignoring.  I don't know
> if their experiment will even be a footnote to the footnote to history that
> is DigiCash.

Well, certainly no more than Otto Lillienthal was... :-).


> I've already shown why it is in the best interest of the issuer to
>participate.
> The next step is to convince merchants it is worth doing.

 By making it so cheap for them to use that it becomes ubiquitous? ;-).



> The half-life of a given dollar of digital cash will be *infinite* if there
> is an expanding base of users, a cheaper secondary market for getting
> electronic
> cash than the cash out and cash back in system, and there is never a big
>panic.

Big pile of "ifs" there. I expect that all you really need are other
digital bearer assets which provide a better return than cash. :-).



> I thought seignorage was a net profit for the Fed, after printing/handling.
> They *do* give the Treasury a kickback for this, and I'm not sure how the
> budget
> actually works, but I think they pay all distribution/printing/etc. costs
> themselves, and thus this is actually spare money.

Okay. Since the actual, financial definition of seignorage is in fact the
difference between what money's worth and what it costs to produce it,
you're probably right. :-). Nonetheless, income on seignorage is miniscule
to other income that the Fed makes, and that's a fact. Greenspan has gone
on record (see the Forbes article) as saying that it would be no skin off
his nose if the Fed never saw any of it.

> It doesn't really apply here, since many of those costs are fundamentally
> different in the electronic cash world than in the printed cash world.

Well, yeah, to the extent that the cost structure is somewhat :-)
different. Unique, non-replicable money-bits *are* easier to print and
control than paper ones after all. Some people say three orders of
magnitude cheaper. ;-).


> Greenspan is/was a libertarian, and would probably be ok with private
> electronic
> banknotes putting him out of business, as long as it was better for the
>economy
> and people as a whole.

Agreed, and he's said as much, like I've said. Controlling the money
supply's more what Greenspan's interested in, and, frankly, given the
amount of eurodollars (the "other" e$ :-)) held in dollar-denominated
accounts in foriegn banks, it's probably safe to say that that's going to
be more of a problem for him as time goes on. And, of course, the physical
cash sitting in some Russian mattresses is, well, seignorage.

Cheers
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The Philodox Symposium on Digital Bearer Transaction Settlement
  July 23-24, 1998: 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: sales@no-isp.com
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 11:04:46 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: New Way to Access Internet
Message-ID: <899909450@no-isp>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ernest Hua 
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 15:48:00 -0700 (PDT)
To: "'Chris Liljenstolpe'" 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I still have a few of those shirts left (I ate the cost ... along with a
few copies of Secret Power).

If anyone wants to do this, I will be happy to donate the T-shirt (and
be an "arms" supplier).

In fact, one of the people who expressed an interest in buying the
T-shirt wanted to send one to Dave Letterman (Letterman was hot at the
time).  Did you ever do it?

Ern

	-----Original Message-----
	From:	Chris Liljenstolpe [SMTP:cds@mcmurdo.gov]
	Sent:	Wednesday, July 08, 1998 3:31 PM
	To:	Adam Back; jim.burnes@ssds.com
	Cc:	Ernest Hua; egerck@laser.cps.softex.br;
cypherpunks@toad.com; cryptography@c2.net
	Subject:	Re: RSA in perl illegal to export (Re: Junger et
al.)

	Greetings,

		There are t-shirts out there with both human readable
and
	machine readable (bar code) versions of the RSA in 3 code....
Wear it
	when boarding an international flight....  They even state that
they
	are a munition and ITAR controlled in BIG letters on the back...


		Chris


	On Wed, Jul 08, 1998 at 11:04:44AM +0100, Adam Back wrote:
	> 
	> Jim Burnes writes:
	> > Obviously there is no difference between 10 lines of PERL
and
	> > 1500 lines of assembler (or machine code).  
	> 
	> One of Peter Junger's examples (I think used in the case) is
the RSA
	> in 2/3 lines.  He actually obtained the US export
administrations
	> written decisions on which of a small collection of titchy
programs
	> was exportable.  RSA in 3 lines of perl they stated was
illegal to
	> export.
	> 
	> So fun things with RSA are possible because they have decided
that it
	> is not exportable, so perhaps you could export it on a floppy,
or as
	> your .signature, with media cameras rolling, and try to get
yourself
	> arrested for willful violation of dumb export laws.
	> 
	> Adam
	> -- 
	> Have you exported RSA today? -->
http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/
	> 
	> print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo
"16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<>
	>
)]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 07:26:19 -0700 (PDT)
To: "Trei, Peter" 
Subject: Re: Junger et al.
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <35A38178.4B276D1F@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Trei, Peter wrote:
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Mok-Kong Shen [SMTP:mok-kong.shen@stud.uni-muenchen.de]

> > Put the source code on a neuro-disk and you can export it under
> > any crypto law that can ever be invented till eternity.

>         Tell that to the thousands forbidden to leave the nations
>         which claim or claimed to own them, on the basis that they
>         once had access to state secrets.

I know the unfortunate truth of that. But I was excluding the
exceptions and referring to disks that are new.

>        I have no doubt that similar restrictions could be put in
>        place in other nations.

It is my conjecture that the chance of that happening in some
countries that are not considered to be democratic is lower.

M. K. Shen




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSqncrs@aol.com
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 13:44:29 -0700 (PDT)
To: Cypherpunks@toad.com (coolness)
Subject: A Mirror - 'Don't be blue if you should be green'
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Sorry, that server that address I gave you on earlier seems to be all locked
up, so I created a mirror, check it out,

Stan,
The Desecration of 'The Dark Side of the Moon'
http://members.aol.com/RealityWal/DarkSide/darkside.html




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jeff.Nisewanger@Eng.Sun.COM (Jeff Nisewanger)
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 17:02:24 -0700 (PDT)
To: cds@mcmurdo.gov
Subject: Re: RSA in perl illegal to export (Re: Junger et al.)
Message-ID: <199807090001.RAA20366@puuoo.eng.sun.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


> 	There are t-shirts out there with both human readable and
> machine readable (bar code) versions of the RSA in 3 code....  Wear it
> when boarding an international flight....  They even state that they
> are a munition and ITAR controlled in BIG letters on the back...

	Or take out a classified ad (so to speak) in the New York Times
and have it published on paper.



	Jeff




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ernest Hua 
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 17:18:22 -0700 (PDT)
To: "'Chris Liljenstolpe'" 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Would someone who has actually scanned this T-shirt in please let us
know how you did it (which equipment, what software, etc.)?

Thanks!

Ern




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Shostack 
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 14:38:58 -0700 (PDT)
To: jya@pipeline.com (John Young)
Subject: Re: Covert Access to Data and ID
In-Reply-To: <199807081547.LAA21623@camel14.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <199807082138.RAA12934@homeport.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


John Young wrote:

| If this is logging (and related retrieval) is done covertly, 
| encryption could thereby become a falsely reassuring 
| cloak of privacy.
| 
| Dave thinks devices like these are surely in the works,
| and he can say more about their sponsors, technologies 
| and implementations.

	Keystroke logging technology exists commercially as a result
of the shit reliability of commercial OSs.  Turning one of them
quite stealth wouldn't be hard; they're very innocous as is.

	Also note things like the recent MS 'send chunks of ram in
Word documents' bug in Word for the Mac.  (Actually an OLE bug.)

	The benefit to encryption is not that it makes your data
secure, but that it allows you to communicate safely in the presense
of adversaries.  (Rivest's definition.)

Adam


-- 
"It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once."
					               -Hume






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Xcott Craver 
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 17:00:17 -0700 (PDT)
To: Chris Liljenstolpe 
Subject: Re: RSA in perl illegal to export (Re: Junger et al.)
In-Reply-To: <19980708223047.H93@erebus.mcmurdo.gov>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Wed, 8 Jul 1998, Chris Liljenstolpe wrote:

> Greetings,
> 
> 	There are t-shirts out there with both human readable and
> machine readable (bar code) versions of the RSA in 3 code.... 

	RSA in 3 or RSA in 5?  Is there a new version?

	Now, all *real* Nettites know that the original 
	shirts were by Joel Furr, are no longer for sale, 
	and have an X-ed out Bill of Rights (or excerpts
	thereof) on the back, rather than any of this ITAR
	stuff.  And!!  It glows in the dark.  Rock rock.
 
						-Caj

	"This shirt is a ... " [squints] "... munchkin?"




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Steve Orrin" 
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 16:15:28 -0700 (PDT)
To: "Cypherpunks Toad" 
Subject: test
Message-ID: <199807082314.SAA19949@dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


test




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Dave Birch 
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 12:10:46 -0700 (PDT)
To: "Ryan Lackey" 
Subject: Re: IP: "CyberCash can't oust credit cards"
Message-ID: <1312194872-63102733@hyperion.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Ryan Lackey said

>I think resistance to new payment schemes on the part of a merchant is in 
>cost and effort to set up.  Having a free apache commerce plugin which 
>handles
>a variety of payment systems...

What's wrong with this model is that it imports historical physical 
models that are irrelevant on the Net. Why does the merchant take 
payments at all?

Imagine this scenario: you go into the Good Guys and buy a Walkman. The 
clerk gives you a ticket. You go round to your branch of Wells Fargo and 
get a cashiers cheque made out to the merchant, walk round to the 
merchant's branch of BankAmerica -- or BankBank, or whatever it's called 
now :) -- and deposit the cheque in the merchants account. BankBank gives 
you a receipt which you take back to the Good Guys and pick up your 
Walkman. Now, apart from all of the walking around, this is not a bad 
system. The Good Guys don't need cash registers, links to First Data etc 
etc. The Good Guys don't need to put up stickers saying "we take Visa", 
because the bank takes everything. The Good Guys don't care how you paid.

The bank is much better placed than the merchant to handle the risks 
associated with payments and therefore the information asymmetries 
associated with the payment are significantly reduced (there's a good 
article about this in the Federal Reserve Bank of Atlanta's Economic 
Review, 1Q98). On the Net, there's no walking around.

In the physical world, it clearly makes no sense for every bank to build 
a network out to every merchant: hence it makes sense to have physical 
payment instruments (e.g. notes, cheques) and credit/charge cards. On the 
Net, though, every participant is connected. When you buy a book from 
Amazon, what is the point of sending your credit card details to Amazon 
just so that they can send the details on to an acquiring network, 
third-party processor etc. Surely it makes more sense for merchants to 
have deals with payment agents (this is the model in OTP, Smart Access 
etc). When you press the button marked "Pay" on your browser, wouldn't it 
be more natural for a message to go to your bank than to the merchant?

Thus, I get a "ticket" from Amazon saying "you owe $20 for this book". I 
pass the ticket to a payment agent (which may be a bank) and pay them 
(the negotiation being between my wallet and the agent"). The agent sends 
me a receipt to keep: I send the receipt to Amazon and they send me a 
book. Alternatively, perhaps the receipt let's me play Doom for a month 
or get ten upgrade to an item of software or whatever.

All Amazon care is that the money has been paid: what do they care 
whether I used DigiCash or Mondex, Visa or MasterCard? You might argue 
that the merchant would discount for cleared funds (pay by Mondex and get 
2% off) but I think that its frankly too much bother for them to work out 
N different prices by M different payment methods. I would imagine that 
just a merchants run loyalty schemes ("double points if you buy 
cornflakes") then so would payment agents ("double points for DigiCash") 
but each could operate their business independently.

I would argue that the idea that merchants take payments is outdated. 
Since merchants don't care about cypherpunk favourites such as bearer 
instruments and anonymity, they'll be perfectly happy to have an 
acquiring account with BigBank and get a statement at the end of the 
month that details the payments taken and says "Money collected $1000, 
our fee $50, deposited to your account $950". Now, the merchant hasn't 
had to buy a commerce server, negiotiate 10 different acquiring 
agreements, implement SET or do anything else. Hey, so it's 5%: so what?

Regards,
Dave Birch.

=== mailto:daveb@hyperion.co.uk ===== http://www.hyperion.co.uk/ ===





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 17:37:02 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: DoD Plans Global Domestic Invasion
Message-ID: <199807090036.UAA06849@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


DoD released today the text of a June 11 speech which
describes how the military is planning for the first time
in US history to establish a homeland defense command,
to operate inside US borders for protection against terrorism
and weapons of mass destruction:

   http://jya.com/dsd061198.htm

A special unit will handle cyber threats.

The CINC-US will be a vast increase over the traditional
role of domestic law enforcement by FBI, ATF and other
federal, state and local authorities, lately supplemented
by the National Guard, FEMA, PCCIP, and the newly
formed COIA at Commerce and the President's special 
office on domestic terrorism.

Deputy Secretary of Defense Hamre said the command
will work with the newly formed Defense Threat Reduction
Agency (DTRA) which will be under C4I of DoD.

Another press release today covered Hamre's June 22 
speech in Vienna where he outlined similar measures for 
European defense through NATO:

   http://jyacom/dsd062298.htm

Finally, the Wash Post had a report today on DoD's
attempt to come up with workable plans for offensive
cyberwar -- which is claimed to be the serious first 
serious competitor for the nuclear threat in fifty years:

   http://jya.com/cyber-how.htm

It says that a component of cyberwar offense is regular prowling
of other countries networks and military command systems 
for the purpose of "pre-planning the battlefield."

That this is the way DoD justifies ignoring the limitations of 
intel agencies' need to get presidential approval for invading 
the borders of other countries. "Cyberspace is borderless," 
says the Pentagon.

Many covert prowling, surveilling and crashing tools
are in operation or poised to take down systems like those
of the nuclear command and control systems of 
Pakistan and India should the need arise. One guy
brags that any one of a dozen experts in the US 
"could take out a country in six hours" by disrupting
cyber infrastructure, and that might be looming for
the US.

Is it true infowar, or is it whistling in the dark psy war:
"my megaherz-death bombers are sneakier than yours"?

So, it appears that key stroke logging and MS/Intel's vicious 
"wired for management" are kidstuff cheapskate knockoffs of
far worse invasive technology pouring dollars into Wintel
labs and fabs.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 18:19:26 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: DoD Plans Global Domestic Invasion
In-Reply-To: <199807090036.UAA06849@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <199807090119.VAA03382@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


To not accuse only follow-the-leaders Wintel, that last paragraph 
should have been:

So, it appears that key stroke logging and MS/Intel's vicious 
"wired for management" are kidstuff cheapskate knockoffs of
far worse invasive technology pouring dollars into much
DIRTier than Wintel labs and fabs.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: sales@electronicpromotion.com
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To: sales@electronicpromotion.com
Subject: INCREASE YOUR CASHFLOW NOW!!!!!
Message-ID: <199807090504.WAA14973@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Chris Liljenstolpe 
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 15:37:10 -0700 (PDT)
To: Adam Back 
Message-ID: <19980708223047.H93@erebus.mcmurdo.gov>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Greetings,

	There are t-shirts out there with both human readable and
machine readable (bar code) versions of the RSA in 3 code....  Wear it
when boarding an international flight....  They even state that they
are a munition and ITAR controlled in BIG letters on the back...


	Chris


On Wed, Jul 08, 1998 at 11:04:44AM +0100, Adam Back wrote:
> 
> Jim Burnes writes:
> > Obviously there is no difference between 10 lines of PERL and
> > 1500 lines of assembler (or machine code).  
> 
> One of Peter Junger's examples (I think used in the case) is the RSA
> in 2/3 lines.  He actually obtained the US export administrations
> written decisions on which of a small collection of titchy programs
> was exportable.  RSA in 3 lines of perl they stated was illegal to
> export.
> 
> So fun things with RSA are possible because they have decided that it
> is not exportable, so perhaps you could export it on a floppy, or as
> your .signature, with media cameras rolling, and try to get yourself
> arrested for willful violation of dumb export laws.
> 
> Adam
> -- 
> Have you exported RSA today? --> http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/
> 
> print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<>
> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Adults Only Website !

CHECK TO SEE IF YOU ARE A WINNER!!!!!

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 14:29:06 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199807082129.XAA00872@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




I made another page, which details what Capital records did to Dark Side of
the Moon when they reissued on cd.  Guess what they covered-up.  :-)  Check it
out,

Stan,
The Desecration of 'The Dark Side of the Moon'
http://members.tripod.com/StanSqncrs/DarkSide/darkside.html









From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Xcott Craver 
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 22:47:28 -0700 (PDT)
To: Jeff Nisewanger 
Subject: "Classified" Ads  (Was Re: RSA in perl illegal to export)
In-Reply-To: <199807090001.RAA20366@puuoo.eng.sun.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Wed, 8 Jul 1998, Jeff Nisewanger wrote:

> > 	There are t-shirts out there with both human readable and
> > machine readable (bar code) versions of the RSA in 3 code....  Wear it
> > when boarding an international flight....  
> 
> 	Or take out a classified ad (so to speak) in the New York Times
> and have it published on paper.

	Woo!  This sounds like an easily doable, easily managable
	mass protest.

	We start a mailing list or website (a website would be better)
	of volunteers and the newspapers they intend to place ads in.
	Major papers would hopefully get multiple copies of the ad in
	multiple sections.  All on the same day.

	But then, they often charge per word, and one gigantic string
	of nonsense might not obey any newspaper's rules.

	But I like the idea of organizing a classified add campaign,
	or such.  Blitzing the nationwide press with a large number
	of tiny notes, all one day.  Maybe instead they could all 
	contain a URL, pointing to a carefully written, agreed-upon, 
	readable and fairly exhaustive collection of info about the 
	issues at hand.  Well, maybe they shouldn't all point to
	the same machine....

	Ferget just signing petitions, dammit.  Petitions are for
	wimps.  Ask folks to participate by buying an ad.

	I mean, communication is what a lot of us here specialize
	in.  And in our protocols, we have Alice and Bob writing out
	hundreds of anonymous money orders, broadcasting public
	keys via radio from prison, and hiding love letters in 
	GIFs of farm animals.  Surely there's enough imagination 
	here to turn even a small fund into a very effective PR
	campaign.
	
							-Caj

> 	Jeff

 ,oooooooo8     o     ooooo@math.niu.edu  --  http://www.math.niu.edu/~caj/
o888'   `88   ,888.    888                                                 
888          ,8'`88.   888      "The user's going to pick dancing pigs     
888o.   ,oo ,8oooo88.  888          over security every time."             
`888oooo88 o88o  o888o 888                          -Bruce Schneier        
____________________8o888'_________________________________________________





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED/EUREKA! 
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 21:25:38 -0700 (PDT)
To: All Eureka/Stuffed Subscribers: ;
Subject: Elvis stole my panties/Whip me please!
Message-ID: <19980709010446.28505.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/html

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: RealNetworks News 
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 07:46:29 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Speed Up Your Dial-up Connection!
Message-ID: <199807091446.HAA24275@dmail3.real-net.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: RAPHAEL_PHAN_CHUNG_WEI 
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 18:14:43 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mok-Kong Shen 
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 01:14:25 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Covert Access to Data and ID
In-Reply-To: <199807081547.LAA21623@camel14.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <35A47BD1.1F51A0D5@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


John Young wrote:

> Thus, the more general question Dave has raised is how
> widespread is the development and implementation of
> technolgies for covert surveillance on the Web and in
> desktop boxes -- happily spreading quietly while attention
> is focussed on the very encryption which it will circumvent?

I don't know whether it is relevant but there is recently an
announcement of a conference on intrusion detection. Perhaps
one gets some relevant research results there presented.

M. K. Shen




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: CTIA Daily News 
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 10:13:32 -0700 (PDT)
To: CTIA Daily News 
Subject: CTIA Daily News from WOW-COM - July 9, 1998
Message-ID: <199807091702.MAA14127@mailstrom.revnet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



=============================================
Welcome to today's edition of the CTIA Daily News
from WOW-COM.  Please click on the icon / attachment
for the most important news in wireless communications today.

WIRELESS IT '98, The Next Generation in Personal
Computing & Communications October 12-14,
Las Vegas, Nevada Call (202) 785-0081 for more information!
=============================================


From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Fr0gFAQ@aol.com
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 10:43:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Hey!
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

 


To: Fr0gFAQ@aol.com
Subject: Hey!
From: Fr0gFAQ@aol.com
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 11:30:53 EDT

Hello, 
Click Here Please!
Thanx




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Eric Murray 
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 13:28:00 -0700 (PDT)
To: attila@hun.org
Subject: Re: FC: Forget Internet restrictions -- how about banning TV?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199807092027.NAA02656@slack.lne.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


attila writes:
> 
> On Thu, 9 Jul 1998, Declan McCullagh forwarded from TIME:
> 
> >...
> >   The revolution will not be televised -- at least not in Afghanistan.
> >   The Taliban government today banned TV, and gave Afghans 15 days to
> >   get rid of all sets and VCRs. After that, if the organization's
> >   enforcers find one in your house, it will be destroyed and you will be
> >   punished.
> >...
> 
>     sounds good to me; I've raised 5 children who know how to _read_.
> 

[rant against tv deleted]


While I agree that TV is a brain-sucking void, banning any
form of dissemination of information is a Bad Thing and
a sign of serious government oppression.


First the came for the TV sets, and I didn't say anything because
TV is merely bread and circuses for the masses.

Then they came for my radio, and I didn't complain because
I can't get Rush very good anyhow.

Then they came for the newspaper, and that really pissed me off, so
I wanted to protest.  I wanted my protest to get a lot of exposure, so
I went to call the TV and radio stations but they don't exist any more.


>     policy goals of Hillay's Global Village where everybody is just
>     another butterscotch pudding to her recipe.


I'd rather be dealing with Hillary than the Talliban.


-- 
Eric Murray  Chief Security Scientist  N*Able Technologies  www.nabletech.com
(email:  ericm  at  lne.com   or   nabletech.com)          PGP keyid:E03F65E5




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Harvey Rook (Exchange)" 
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 14:27:38 -0700 (PDT)
To: "'attila'" 
Subject: RE: FC: Forget Internet restrictions -- how about banning TV?
Message-ID: <2FBF98FC7852CF11912A00000000000108A78AE3@DINO>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


So attila, Afghanistan will be a better place because they've banned
television?

I think you miss the point.

Harv.

From: attila [mailto:attila@hun.org]
> Sent: Thursday, July 09, 1998 12:37 PM
> To: Declan McCullagh; cypherpunks
> Subject: Re: FC: Forget Internet restrictions -- how about banning TV?
> 
> 
> On Thu, 9 Jul 1998, Declan McCullagh forwarded from TIME:
> 
> >...
> >   The revolution will not be televised -- at least not in 
> Afghanistan.
> >   The Taliban government today banned TV, and gave Afghans 
> 15 days to
...deletia...
> 
>     sounds good to me; I've raised 5 children who know how to _read_.
> 
>     I've never owned a television, never saw the need to bring cancer
>     into the home. 
...deletia...




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: MCROACH@delphi.com
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 12:32:54 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: journalist seeking help...
Message-ID: <01IZ79RMKJWI8ZYMJZ@delphi.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





Dear Cypherpunks:

I write for the New York Times Magazine. My editor 
wants to profile, as he put it, "a group of hackers 
who've gone legit" and now do consulting for 
corporations. Paul Kocher of Cryptography Research 
thought you guys might have a couple suggestions. He
mentioned a co-op in Boston, but couldn't recall their
name. Also -- anyone know what Robert Morris Jr. is up
to? Or how to contact him? 

Thanks very much.

Mary Roach




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: lithron 
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 12:38:25 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: "Classified" Ads  (Was Re: RSA in perl illegal to export) (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199807091306.IAA03984@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <35A51BD8.4378ADC9@bellsouth.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


This does sound like a fun way to protest.  I'd be willing to donate 
a little cash if people would send me copies of the papers that it
gets 
put in.  Heh.. it would be good for a laugh to visit an airport on
that 
day just to see all the people taking news papers with them on 
international flights :)

Anyone want to take a stab at a date?

lithron at bellsouth dot net

Jim Choate wrote:
> 
> Forwarded message:
> 
> > Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 00:47:18 -0500 (CDT)
> > From: Xcott Craver 
> > Subject: "Classified" Ads  (Was Re: RSA in perl illegal to export)

[snip snip snip]

> [text deleted]
> 
> I like this idea a lot also. I'm definitely interested...
> 
> Let me look into it but I suspect I could cover Austin, Houston, Dallas, Ft.
> Worth, & El Paso in Tx. To ensure accuracy the actual text should be faxed in
> if not sent via email.
> 
> Other than a list of current objectionable issues what else should be sent
> in? It would be worth a point or two to have it signed 'Publius'.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Global Web Builders 
Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 23:35:28 -0700 (PDT)
To: (Recipient list suppressed)
Subject: One Nation going back on-line
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980709054803.0073c9b8@mail.ipswich.gil.com.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Dear Pauline Hanson's One Nation supporter in NSW

We are pleased to be able to advise that the problems faced following the
financial collapse of our Internet Service Provider (ISP), Pronet, have now
been resolved.

During the last week we have:
=============================

- re-directed the "gwb" and "onenation" domain's to our new ISP.
- established 170 mBytes of data including several hundred images and
hundreds of related One Nation web pages and thousands of links on the new host.
- begun the process of establishing a moderated discussion board at our new
ISP (under our direct control).

It is important to realise that the DNS re-delegation of the "gwb" and
"onenation" domain names will "filter through" over the next 48 hours. In
the meantime establishing a link with:

onenation.com.au 
or 
gwb.com.au/onenation

might be a temporary problem until your DNS look-up is updated on your ISP.

If you come across links that do not work on our new ISP please contact GWB
with the URL that you tried to access the link from and the link "caption"
(eg 'take this link to see...'). Your assistance in this regard would be
greatly appreciated.

By Sunday, 12th July, you should be able to access the full One Nation web
site and Australian News of the Day web sites USING YOUR OLD BOOKMARKS.

Please Note: A summary of news on this week's Australian National News of
the Day (anotd) will be available on fax back number: 1902 211037 from
tomorrow (Friday) afternoon. Last week's summary of the anotd is currently
available at that number for Australian based recipients of this email.

The cost is 75 cents per minute. 

Email:
======
The email currently address being used (vjb@gil.com.au) has been on a
temporary basis and will no longer be used by the writer after the end of July.

The "gwb@gwb.com.au" email address will be active when you are able to
access the One Nation web sites through your old bookmarks.

Once again we apologise for this break in providing you Pauline Hanson's One
Nation on-line and thank you for your patience and support.

GWB



Scott Balson
Pauline Hanson's Web Master





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Robert A. Costner" 
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 13:34:22 -0700 (PDT)
To: Xcott Craver 
Subject: Re: "Classified" Ads  (Was Re: RSA in perl illegal to export)
In-Reply-To: <199807090001.RAA20366@puuoo.eng.sun.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980709163207.03355c8c@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 12:47 AM 7/9/98 -0500, Xcott Craver wrote:
>	We start a mailing list or website (a website would be better)
>	of volunteers and the newspapers they intend to place ads in.
>	Major papers would hopefully get multiple copies of the ad in
>	multiple sections.  All on the same day.

If there is any real interest in doing this as a group, I'll be happy to
setup a web site and a mail list for this.

Does newsprint from most major US papers still qualify as  "A small group
of internet users manufacturing and distributing tons of high end munitions
for export overseas?"


  -- Robert Costner                  Phone: (770) 512-8746
     Electronic Frontiers Georgia    mailto:pooh@efga.org  
     http://www.efga.org/            run PGP 5.0 for my public key




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: mgraffam@mhv.net
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 14:31:00 -0700 (PDT)
To: attila 
Subject: Re: FC: Forget Internet restrictions -- how about banning TV?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Thu, 9 Jul 1998, attila wrote:

> On Thu, 9 Jul 1998, Declan McCullagh forwarded from TIME:
> 
> >...
> >   The revolution will not be televised -- at least not in Afghanistan.
> >   The Taliban government today banned TV, and gave Afghans 15 days to
> >   get rid of all sets and VCRs. After that, if the organization's
> >   enforcers find one in your house, it will be destroyed and you will be
> >   punished.
> >...
> 
>     sounds good to me; I've raised 5 children who know how to _read_.
> 
>     I've never owned a television, never saw the need to bring cancer
>     into the home. TV could have been one of the greatest educational
>     tools in the existence of mankind --and, what is it? nothing more
>     than bread and circus for the mass, a tool for social reoganization 
>     and the destruction of the family.

I suspect one day someone will be saying something similar about the
net.

I have a small TV and cable, which sits a few feet away from my computer.
If I could, I'd just fly around the country going to Mets and Yankees
games.. and of course during the "slow season" I can always go to football
games. 

TV is what you make of it. I suppose if a kid sits in a room by himself
and vegges out in front of it, it does more harm than good.. on the
other hand, when you're 15 years old and can't talk to your dad about
much because its just that time in life, I'd be willing to bet baseball
or sports is still neutral enough territory. I don't see much wrong
with crowding around the idiot box as a family or group, if it gives
people something to talk about. Politics and religion can be fun now and
then, but we all get weary of fighting the same battles. 

Sure, lots of TV is garbage.. but hell.. look around.. a whole lot of
the net is too. 

It isn't TV's fault, and it isn't the net.. the reason why so many things
suck is because we made them. More often than not, we're the garbage.

hmm.. I had hoped this message might be uplifting. Guess not.

Michael J. Graffam (mgraffam@mhv.net)
http://www.mhv.net/~mgraffam -- Philosophy, Religion, Computers, Crypto, etc
Be a munitions trafficker: http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/rsa-keygen.html

#!/bin/perl -sp0777i
Subject: Make Money From Our National Television Infomercial!
Message-ID: <199807090928.CAA28650@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 15:52:29 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Bye Homeland Liberty
Message-ID: <199807092252.SAA07453@camel14.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Note the single mention of cyber warfare, hooked to chemical 
and biological dangers.


http://www.defenselink.mil/news/

Remarks by Deputy Secretary of Defense John J. Hamre
Commemorating the 200th Anniversary of the Recall of 
George Washington to Active Duty
Mount Vernon, Virginia
Saturday, July 4, 1998

[Snip]

Two hundred years ago, Washington was called back to service 
to prepare America's defenses.  Today, the American homeland 
faces a new and different danger.  The threat is not from overt 
invasion, but from the sinister dangers of chemical, biological 
and cyber warfare.  Chemical and biological weapons are a poor 
man's atomic bomb.  They are easier to build, to hide, and to 
deliver to their targets.  They are especially appealing to 
small terrorist cells and known individuals who can not challenge 
American military superiority on the battlefield.

As in Washington's time, America is not yet fully prepared for this 
new challenge. We too must organize, plan, and act anew. We too 
must recognize that complacency and delay is dangerous. President 
Clinton and Secretary of Defense Cohen have made preparing the 
American homeland against chemical and biological weapons a top 
priority.  The continental United States has not confronted a 
direct threat to its territory in this century precisely because 
we have confronted threats before they touched our shores.  But 
this is a new era, where adversaries can bring their fight to our 
doorstep.  National security now must assume a new dimension.

The Department of Defense and the intelligence community must work 
hand in hand with law enforcement to deal with this far-reaching 
threat.  We are taking steps to improve our knowledge of hostile 
elements and their plans.  We are reorganizing the Defense 
Department to integrate our approach to counter-proliferation of 
these terrible new weapons, and we are launching new programs to 
help local emergency response forces to mitigate the effects of 
chemical and biological attack.

[Snip]

Shortly, we will commemorate this day by planting a new tree, 
adding to Washington's beloved "shades of Mount Vernon."  We place 
it here as a mark of gratitude to a leader who accepted the burdens 
of public service to defend our young republic.  We also place it 
here to mark our commitment to ensure future generations will live 
in peace and security.  One hundred years from now we will not be 
here, but I hope Americans will gather under this tree to celebrate 
the 300th anniversary of Washington's act of patriotic sacrifice.  
And I hope they will also say, of us, that we too left a measure 
of our day and, by our deeds, we too preserved the safety of this 
sweet land of liberty.

Thank you all for coming today.

-END-






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: attila 
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 12:37:00 -0700 (PDT)
To: Declan McCullagh 
Subject: Re: FC: Forget Internet restrictions -- how about banning TV?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Thu, 9 Jul 1998, Declan McCullagh forwarded from TIME:

>...
>   The revolution will not be televised -- at least not in Afghanistan.
>   The Taliban government today banned TV, and gave Afghans 15 days to
>   get rid of all sets and VCRs. After that, if the organization's
>   enforcers find one in your house, it will be destroyed and you will be
>   punished.
>...

    sounds good to me; I've raised 5 children who know how to _read_.

    I've never owned a television, never saw the need to bring cancer
    into the home. TV could have been one of the greatest educational
    tools in the existence of mankind --and, what is it? nothing more
    than bread and circus for the mass, a tool for social reoganization 
    and the destruction of the family.

    babysitter?  momma's little helper? not really; a creator of a
    vast unthinking social wasteland --which, of course, fits the
    policy goals of Hillay's Global Village where everybody is just
    another butterscotch pudding to her recipe.

__________________________________________________________________________
    go not unto usenet for advice, for the inhabitants thereof will say:
      yes, and no, and maybe, and I don't know, and fuck-off.
_________________________________________________________________ attila__






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: attila 
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 14:47:28 -0700 (PDT)
To: Eric Murray 
Subject: Re: FC: Forget Internet restrictions -- how about banning TV?
In-Reply-To: <199807092027.NAA02656@slack.lne.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Thu, 9 Jul 1998, Eric Murray wrote:
> [snip]
>
>Then they came for the newspaper, and that really pissed me off, so
>I wanted to protest.  I wanted my protest to get a lot of exposure, so
>I went to call the TV and radio stations but they don't exist any more.
>
    point duly noted.  however, TV as a degenerative (self eating 
    watermelon) force is an option --which I took by refusing it
    the privilege of its one eyed stare. never owned one as the
    fraction of worthwhile programming is overwhelmed by mind-fuck.

>>     policy goals of Hillay's Global Village where everybody is just
>>     another butterscotch pudding to her recipe.
>
>I'd rather be dealing with Hillary than the Talliban.
>
    by all means. Hillary is an unprincipled, amoral automan who
    expects her comforts.  

    the Talliban/Taleban/or_however_whichever_network_spells_it is
    religious fanaticism; no worse than the Catholic Inquisition I
    would expect, but that's not saying much.

    Hillary can be beaten back into her cage...  Taleban fanaticism
    ends only with their death(s).

    There is no safety this side of the grave.  Never was; never will be.

 ________________________________________________________________attila__







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: attila 
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 14:53:07 -0700 (PDT)
To: "Harvey Rook (Exchange)" 
Subject: RE: FC: Forget Internet restrictions -- how about banning TV?
In-Reply-To: <2FBF98FC7852CF11912A00000000000108A78AE3@DINO>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Thu, 9 Jul 1998, Harvey Rook (Exchange) wrote:

>So attila, Afghanistan will be a better place because they've banned
>television?
>
>I think you miss the point.
>
>Harv.
>
    I didnt miss the point, Harv...   

    at least I am free to choose whether or not I grant the one-eyed
    beast an audience, the Taleban have precluded that choice. 

    TV _had_ enormous potential; it has been squandered. ergo, I chose.

__________________________________________________________________________
    To be a ruler of men, you need at least 12 inches....
_________________________________________________________________ attila__







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 20:22:07 -0700 (PDT)
To: attila 
Subject: Re: FC: Forget Internet restrictions -- how about banning TV?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199807100325.WAA005.93@geiger.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In , on 07/09/98 
   at 09:47 PM, attila  said:

>Hillary can be beaten back into her cage...  Taleban fanaticism
>    ends only with their death(s).

Yes, but more importantly: Is there a bag limit?

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgp.html
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: OS/2: Windows with bullet-proof glass.

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Version: 2.6.3a-sha1
Charset: cp850
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jerry 
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 20:49:25 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: no subject
Message-ID: <199807092321.XAA23250@steve1.weboneinc.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED/EUREKA! 
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 18:25:24 -0700 (PDT)
To: All Eureka/Stuffed Subscribers: ;
Subject: Larry Flynt hustles Congress/Monica Lewinskookies
Message-ID: <19980709233913.21088.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/html

CLICK FOR STUFFED: Thursday July 9 1998

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 16:19:26 -0700 (PDT)
To: pooh@efga.org
Subject: Re: "Classified" Ads  (Was Re: RSA in perl illegal to export)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980709163207.03355c8c@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <199807092311.AAA07749@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Robert writes:
> If there is any real interest in doing this as a group, I'll be happy
> to setup a web site and a mail list for this.

and Jim Choate said similar.

A constructive comment: in my obeservation setting up mailing lists
for mini-projects is a sure way to reduce the number of participants
in the project.

A few years back when we were all cracking RC4, it was done right here
on the cypherpunks list.  There were no new lists created.  I suspect
that the CPU resoureces contributed benefitted orders of magnitude due
to this as people got swept up in the fun of it and joined in.  (I
won't volunteer Perry's list as he tries to keep it focussed and I
suspect a few hundred posts on adverts and PR would result in him
turning up the squelch).  So I suggest use cypherpunks list (*).
(subscribe to majordomo@cyberpass.net with message: subscribe
cypherpunks, for those on cryptography).

If we had on the other hand started a list, I suspect a few dozen
might have subscribed, and the rest of us would have forgotten about
it, and heard no more feedback on it.

Lets go for it, I'll join in also, but please in the interests of it's
chances of success, keep it to the cypherpunks list.

Some comments on the thread of what would be most effective:

Anyone with a tame PR expert they can quiz about the best way to
maximise publicity:

- what stunt would create most publicity
- who in the press should be contacted
- which computer companies and who to contact with in them to donate
  funds if funds are required (eg advert)

it may be for example that plenty of publicity can be had for free
with a suitable stunt, if media can be interested.

Perhaps (or perhaps not) Peter Junger could be involved, or
referrenced to tie the two togther in the presses mind, and he would
perhaps make a good person for media hacks to interview also.

Adam

(*) Or if someone gets keen perhaps a filtered version of cypherpunks
selecting only posts on this topic might be useful to a few people --
cpunks is high volume.




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From: eva654@hotmail.com
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 21:23:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Now See Amazing World Record Sex!
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: attila 
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 21:01:25 -0700 (PDT)
To: "William H. Geiger III" 
Subject: Re: FC: Forget Internet restrictions -- how about banning TV?
In-Reply-To: <199807100325.WAA005.93@geiger.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Thu, 9 Jul 1998, William H. Geiger III wrote:

>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
>In , on 07/09/98 
>   at 09:47 PM, attila  said:
>
>>Hillary can be beaten back into her cage...  Taleban fanaticism
>>    ends only with their death(s).
>
>Yes, but more importantly: Is there a bag limit?
>
    bag limit? heavens, no! in fact, the last I heard there was a $5/ear
    bounty.  and someone else told me they, like lawyers, taste "just
    like chicken"   --bok-bok--

__________________________________________________________________________
    go not unto usenet for advice, for the inhabitants thereof will say:
      yes, and no, and maybe, and I don't know, and fuck-off.
_________________________________________________________________ attila__






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 07:31:34 -0700 (PDT)
To: jy@jya.com
Subject: FOIA, Navajo code talkers, Rule 54(b) and PROGRESS
Message-ID: <35A624DB.328F@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Friday 7/10/98 7:39 AM

John Young

I am reading http://www.jya.com/nsa-foia-req.htm	

This FOIA stuff appears to be catchy.

Will you do a pro se lawsuit in case NSA does not come across?  

There is some great stuff on the web on on that subject.
http://jya.com/whpfiles.htm

I just found

navahode.htm       Navaho Code Expert Dies                          
June 26, 1998 http://www.jya.com/navahode.htm

NavaJo is spelled different in the southwest.

Carpet intaller George Chavez junior told me yesterday that his father
George senior was a code talker.

I told Chavez I would send him a copy of what you posted.

Chavez told me that Carl Gorman, RC Gorman's father
http://www.iwaynet.net/~sabrina/gorman.html
was also a code talker.

Chavez commented that RC is a 'bit wierd.'

Chavez is an UNMISTAKABLE Navajo native American -  complete with LONG
pony tail.

Native Americans in the southwest frequently have TWO names.  One an
anglo or hispanic
name and one their native American name.  Like Star Road or White Sun
made famous by Taos NM
artist Blumenschein.

I'll have to ask Chavez if he has another name.

   Life is to short to do everything in line.
   I lead multiple lives, that is why I have more adventures.
   
   Adam Fortunate Eagle, New Mexican, Sunday, 21 Aug 94

Morales and I believe we are going to win our lawsuits a result of
technical legal mistakes made both in district court and the two SHOW
CAUSE orders I mailed to you.  Partial rulings can cause problems.

Rule 54(b) is VERY COMPLEX.

Life is ABOUT back to normal.

First there was PATTY'S floor tile project in about March.

Then the trip to Austin to see our kids and new granddaughter

Then there was THE FLOOD.  Which was CAUSED BY A MICROCONTROLLER
SOFTWARE
DESIGN AND IMPLEMENTATION ERROR - blunder!  And perhaps some DEFICIENT
washing machine hardware design too.

Next was the about month delay caused by getting the Allstate insurance
adjuster to come around to the carpet sellers, our, and the Allstate 
insurance agent way of thinking about how much Allstate should pay.

Next was the several week delay ordering the carpet.

Last Thursday the downstairs carpet got installed.

Thursday, also, I spent in the ER - which stopped the Friday carpet
completion project.

So yesterday the carpet installers finished.  

Looks GREAT!  And both the carpet installers were real nice guys.

And some legal filings while all of the other above was going on.

So the next two orders of business are

	1  finish the digital FX
	2  conclude our legal fights with SETTLEMENT - before things get WORSE.

On your NSA FOIA I suggest that you seek a waiver of fees since the
material you seek 
benefits the public.

I just saw http://www.jya.com/crypto.htm

  DoE: Pay Bill Payne   
  DoJ: Free Jim Bell 
  DoJ: Free Kevin Mitnick 

THANK YOU.  

Best
bill






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: CTIA Daily News 
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 09:53:00 -0700 (PDT)
To: CTIA Daily News 
Subject: CTIA Daily News from WOW-COM - July 10, 1998
Message-ID: <199807101642.LAA11829@mailstrom.revnet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




=============================================
Welcome to today's edition of the CTIA Daily
News
from WOW-COM.  Please click on the icon /
attachment
for the most important news in wireless
communications today.

WIRELESS IT '98, The Next Generation in
Personal
Computing & Communications October
12-14,
Las Vegas, Nevada Call (202) 785-0081 for more
information!
=============================================

 







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Lisa" <24893232@03820.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 06:01:37 -0700 (PDT)
To: Only.Me
Subject: For Your Eyes Only
Message-ID: <007801bda6a2$0673b140$37ab9dcc@ativg.co>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mia Westerholm 
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 07:02:52 -0700 (PDT)
To: F-Secure-Press-Global@DataFellows.com
Subject: Data Fellows Premiers F-Secure VPN+
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980710155153.00a4b7c0@smtp.DataFellows.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


For immediate release
10 July 1998

DATA FELLOWS PREMIERES F-SECURE VPN+
                              
New Software Line Offers IPsec-Based Strong Security for Mission Critical
Networks
        
Helsinki, Finland, July 10, 1998 -- Data Fellows, the global leader in
Internet security solution development, has begun shipping its new F-Secure
VPN+ product family.

Compliant with the IEFT's (Internet Engineering Task Force) latest IPsec
standards (Internet Protocol Security standard), F-Secure VPN+ provides a
peerless software - only solution for both large corporate networks and remote
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(40-446 bit), and CAST128 (40-128 bit). All VPN+ products are centrally
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F-Secure VPN+ operates at the network (IP protocol) level, which is invisible
at the application and end-user level.  The product line does not require
special hardware, and the ordinary user does not even notice its presence
since it requires no changes to network applications or their configurations.
F-Secure VPN+ works in conjunction with existing routers and firewalls, off-
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The F-Secure VPN+ family consists of the following products: 
   
- F-Secure VPN+ Client,  which operates in Windows and Solaris workstations
and encrypts all data traffic from such a workstation to an F-Secure VPN+
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- F-Secure VPN+ Server, which operates in Windows NT or Solaris
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The Enterprise version allows simultaneous connections from both VPN+
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 "What is revolutionary about F-Secure VPN+ is that a virtual
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"This is great news for small and medium sized organizations. Large
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The products support centralized policy based management.

F-Secure VPN+ is available from Data Fellows' resellers around the world.
The products have been tested for interoperability with almost 20 other
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Mr. Teemu Lehtonen, Product Manager 					
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or visit our web site at http://www.DataFellows.com

¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤
Mia.Westerholm@DataFellows.com 
http://www.DataFellows.com

Data Fellows Ltd.
PL 24
FIN-02231 ESPOO, FINLAND
Tel. +358 9 859 900
Fax. +358 9 8599 0599




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 21:13:29 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: no subject!
In-Reply-To: <199807070635.IAA08822@basement.replay.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980710170837.008f0990@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 08:35 AM 7/7/98 +0200, Anonymous wrote:
>Where is this?  Stalled.  Looks dead in the water.  Any further insights?

Dr. Ron Paul often introduces good bills that will never get anywhere,
because he's _not_ a mainstream Congressscritter.
He was a conservative Republican Congresscritter from Houston, 
quit the GOP in ~1986/1987, ran for President as a Libertarian, (lost),
and a couple of years ago decided to re-emerge as a Republican.

He's generally in favor of personal and economic freedom,
though he seems to believe that the US government owns the country
and therefore has the right to ban immigrants; I took the Ron Paul
bumper sticker off my car a few years after the election when he
endorsed Pat Buchanan for the Republican nomination instead of
the also-bad George Bush.  He's also rabidly against the U.N.,
and borders on Black-Helicopter paranoia on occasion :-)

He's willing to take a strong stand against the Republicrats 
when there are issues of principle, and therefore doesn't have a 
lot of support - often he and Bernie Sanders, the Vermont Socialist, 
are about the only members opposing a bill.  So no surprise if the bill dies.


>H.R.3261 
>SPONSOR: Rep Paul (introduced 02/25/98) 
>
>SUMMARY: 
>
>(AS INTRODUCED) 
>
>Privacy Protection Act of 1997 (sic) - Amends title II (Old Age, Survivors
>and Disability Insurance) of the Social Security Act and the Internal
>Revenue Code to prohibit any Federal, State, or local government agency or
>instrumentality from using a social security account number or
>any derivative as the means of identifying any individual, except for
>specified social security and tax purposes. 
>
>Amends the Privacy Act of 1974 to prohibit any Federal, State, or local
>government agency or instrumentality from requesting an individual to
>disclose his social security account number on either a mandatory or a
>voluntary basis. 
>
>Prohibits any two Federal agencies or instrumentalities from implementing
>the same identifying number with respect to any individual, except as
>authorized under this Act. 
>
>
>----
>STATUS: Detailed Legislative Status 
>
>                                                 House Actions
>
>Feb 25, 98:
>     Referred to the Committee on Ways and Means, and in addition to the
>Committee on Government Reform and Oversight, for a period to
>     be subsequently determined by the Speaker, in each case for
>consideration of such provisions as fall within the jurisdiction of the
>     committee concerned. 
>     Mar 2, 98:
>          Referred to the Subcommittee on Government Management,
>Information and Technology.
>Feb 25, 98:
>     Referred to the Committee on Ways and Means, and in addition to the
>Committee on Government Reform and Oversight, for a period to
>     be subsequently determined by the Speaker, in each case for
>consideration of such provisions as fall within the jurisdiction of the
>     committee concerned.
>
>
>
>
>
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 21:14:19 -0700 (PDT)
To: Hua@teralogic-inc.com>
Subject: RE: Junger et al.
In-Reply-To: <413AC08141DBD011A58000A0C924A6D52C359A@mvs2.teralogic-inc.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980710171121.008f33f0@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 03:11 AM 7/7/98 -0400, mgraffam@mhv.net wrote:
>On Mon, 6 Jul 1998, Ernest Hua wrote:
>> Did anyone demonstrate the "functionalness" of any arbitrary language
>> via a scanner and a compiler?
>Indeed.. what we need is for someone to testify to the court about
>natural and computer language, and maybe some relevent material from
>information theory. 
>
>Pseudo-code from any computer programming textbook would be helpful
>in making this point too.
>
>What about English in a voice recognition system? In this case, English
>can actually perform functions too, just as C does.

A particularly relevent language is the Algorithmic Language, Algol,
which was designed for mathematicians to describe algorithms to each other,
though it was also designed in a way to support compilers,
such as ALGOL-60.
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED/EUREKA! 
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 13:53:51 -0700 (PDT)
To: All Eureka/Stuffed Subscribers: ;
Subject: Tit 'n' Run/Man sues self/World's worst liar
Message-ID: <19980710190741.21988.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/html

CLICK FOR STUFFED: Friday July 10 1998

Click Here For STUFFED, The NEW Daily Tabloid
 News And Babes Color Supplement From Eureka!

Click here to read it: http://stuffed.net/98/7/10/



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: attila 
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 12:58:54 -0700 (PDT)
To: Declan McCullagh 
Subject: Re: FC: Possessing fake IDs soon to be a federal crime (& Y2K)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Fri, 10 Jul 1998, Declan McCullagh wrote:

>   Remember when your underage friend ginned up that fake driver's
>   license to go bar-hopping? Soon it may be a federal crime, punishable
>   by serious fines and up to 15 years in the slammer. The Senate
>   Judiciary Committee yesterday unanimously approved the "Identity Theft
>   and Assumption Deterrence Act," a clunkily named bill that bans
>   obtaining, possessing or using ID "other than that issued lawfully for
>   the use of the possessor."
>   [...remainder snipped...]
>
    oh, shit. does that mean I will be forced to tell everyone my real
    name is FUD?  or TruthMonger? or, even HugeCajones? at least it's
    not DV_KOTM!

    speaking of the late, lamentable foul mouth... whatever happened to
    dmitri?

	attila out...    while I can still be outing attila.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ? the Platypus {aka David Formosa} 
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 04:48:20 -0700 (PDT)
To: attila 
Subject: Re: FC: Forget Internet restrictions -- how about banning TV?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On Thu, 9 Jul 1998, attila wrote:

> On Thu, 9 Jul 1998, Eric Murray wrote:
> > [snip]
> >
> >Then they came for the newspaper, and that really pissed me off, so
> >I wanted to protest.

[...]

>     point duly noted.  however, TV as a degenerative (self eating 
>     watermelon) force is an option --which I took by refusing it
>     the privilege of its one eyed stare.

However you have the right to choose not to watch TV, and we have the
right to watch TV.  Its not weather TV is good or bad, but do we have the
ablity to make that decistion on our own.  Indeed if I wish to do
something that is degenerative and self-destructive I should be allowed
to.


- -- 
Please excuse my spelling as I suffer from agraphia see the url in my header. 
Never trust a country with more peaple then sheep.  ex-net.scum and proud
You Say To People "Throw Off Your Chains" And They Make New Chains For
Themselves? --Terry Pratchett.

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Charset: noconv

iQCVAwUBNaXwk6QK0ynCmdStAQFFDQQA0JH1omnj/kAsjG9y8pADYpwSfwXs0CvR
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=ZBGz
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Reeza! 
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 11:52:51 -0700 (PDT)
To: Jerry 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980710205216.0089ed30@205.83.192.13>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 11:21 PM 09 07 98 GMT, Jerry wrote:
--snip--
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Dear Prospective Entrepreneur;
 
I have been an attorney for 26 years, but recently I
joined a company which is only 3 years old, and is 
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Since the products actually sell themselves, I'm NOT
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If you are interested in trying our products and/or
looking at this business opportunity, call me toll-free
at 888-203-6668 and leave your name, telephone number,
and/or your address if you want more information. You 
also can respond to this e-mail if you so wish.

If you are ready to make some changes in your life, free
up some time to spend with your family, and make some
extra money, call me or e-mail me.  WHAT HAVE YOU GOT TO
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promise, you will be happy to hear more about this tre-
mendous company, its great products, and about how easy 
it will be for you to make that extra money.

Thanks, 
Clyde Fontenot


This message is brought to you from Clyde Fontenot, 
Attorney, 504 W. Main St., Ville Platte,LA.70586,
318-363-5535. If you would like to be removed from
future e-mails, please "reply" with the word 
REMOVE in the subject of your reply message.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ulf@REPLAY.COM
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 13:26:22 -0700 (PDT)
To: mix-l@jpunix.com
Subject: Mixmaster protocol
Message-ID: <199807102025.WAA06967@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text


I'd like to get feedback on the clarity of this draft describing the
Mixmaster protocol.

I'll post the proposed extensions for version 3 later.



Mixmaster Protocol
==================

Abstract

Most e-mail security protocols only protect the message body, leaving
useful information such as the the identities of the conversing
parties, sizes of messages and frequency of message exchange open to
adversaries. This document describes Mixmaster, a mail transfer
protocol designed to protect electronic mail against traffic analysis.


Table of Contents

1. Introduction
2. The Mix-Net Protocol
   2.1 Message Creation
   2.2 Remailing
3. Message Format
   3.1 Cryptographic Algorithms
   3.2 Packet Format
   3.2.1 Header Chart Format
   3.2.2 Body Format
   3.3 Mail Transfer Encoding
   3.5 Transfer through Socket Connections
4. Key Format
5. References


1. Introduction

This document describes a mail transfer protocol designed to protect
electronic mail against traffic analysis. Most e-mail security
protocols only protect the message body, leaving useful information
such as the the identities of the conversing parties, sizes of
messages and frequency of message exchange open to adversaries.

Message transmission can be protected against traffic analysis by the
mix-net protocol. A mix (remailer) is a service that forwards
messages, using public key cryptography to hide the correlation
between its inputs and outputs. If a message is sent through a
sequence of mixes, one trusted mix is sufficient to provide anonymity
and unobserveability of communications against a powerful
adversary. Mixmaster is a mix-net implementation for electronic mail.

This document describes version 2 of the Mixmaster message format.


2. The Mix-Net Protocol

The mix-net protocol [Chaum] allows to send messages while hiding the
relation of sender and recipient from observers (unobserveability). It
also provides the sender of a message with the ability to remain
anonymous to the recipient (sender anonymity). If anonymity is not
desired, authenticity and unobserveability can be achieved in the same
time by transmitting digitally signed messages.

This section gives an overview over the protocol used in
Mixmaster. The message format is specified in section 3.


2.1 Message Creation

To send a message, the user agent splits into parts of fixed size,
which form the bodies of Mixmaster packets. If sender anonymity is
desired, care should be taken not to include identifying information
in the message. The message may be compressed.

The sender choses a sequence of up to 20 remailers for each
packet. The final remailer must be identical for all parts of the
message.

The packet header consists of 20 charts. For a sequence of n
remailers, header charts n+1, ... , 20 are filled with random
data. For all charts i := n down to 1, the sender generates a
symmetric encryption key, which is used to encrypt the body and all
following header charts. This key, together with other control
information for the remailer, is included in the i-th header chart,
which is then encrypted with the remailer's public key.

The message is sent to the first remailer in an appropriate transport
encoding.

To increase reliability, multiple copies of message may be sent
through different paths. The final remailer must be identical for all
paths, so that duplicates can be detected and the message is delivered
only once.


2.2 Remailing

When a remailer receives a message, it decrypts the first header chart
with its private key. By keeping track of a packet ID, the remailer
verifies that the packet has not been processed before. The integrity
of the message is verified by checking the packet length and verifying
message digests included in the packet. Then the first header chart is
removed, the others are shifted up by one, and the last chart is
filled with random padding. All header charts and the message body are
decrypted with the symmetric key found in the header. This reveals a
public key-encrypted header chart for the next remailer at the top,
and obscures the old top header chart. Transfer encoding is applied to
the resulting message.

The remailer collects several encrypted messages before sending the
resulting messages in random order. Thus the relation between the
incoming and outgoing messages is obscured to outside adversaries even
if the adversary can observe all messages sent. The message is
effectively anonymized by sending it through a chain of independently
operated remailers.


2.3 Message Reassembly

When a packet is sent to the final remailer, it contains a flag
indicating that the chain ends at that remailer, and whether the
packet contains a complete message or part of a multi-part message. If
the packet contains the entire message, the body is decrypted and
after reordering messages the plain text is delivered to the
recipient. For partial messages, a packet ID is used to identify the
other parts as they arrive. When all parts have arrived, the message
is reassembled and delivered. If the parts do not arrive within a time
limit, the message is discarded.

Only the last remailer in the chain can determine whether packets are
part of a certain message. To all the others, they are completely
independent.

If necessary, the reassembled message is decompressed before sending
it to the recipient.

When anonymous messages are forwarded to third parties, the final
remailer should ensure that the sender cannot supply header lines that
indicate a false identity or send Usenet control messages that may
have security implications. Appropriate information about the origin
of the message should be inserted in the Comments: header line of the
message.

If the recipient does not wish to receive anonymous messages, the
remailer can ensure authenticity be verifying that the message is
cryptographically signed [RFC 1991, RFC 2311] by a known sender.


3. Message Format

3.1 Cryptographic Algorithms

The asymmetric encryption operation in Mixmaster version 2 uses RSA
with 1024 bit RSA keys and PKCS #1 padding [RFC 2313]. The symmetric
encryption uses EDE 3DES with cipher block chaining (24 byte key, 8
byte initialization vector) [Schneier]. MD5 [RFC 1321] is used as the
message digest algorithm.


3.2 Packet Format

A Mixmaster packet consists of a header containing information for the
remailers, and a body containing the payload. To ensure that packets
are undistinguishable, the size of these encrypted data fields is
fixed.

The packet header consists of 20 header charts (specified in section
A.2) of 512 bytes each, resulting in a total size of 10240 bytes. The
header charts and the body are encrypted with symmetric session keys
specified in the first header chart.


3.2.1 Header Chart Format

     Public key ID                [  16 bytes]
     Encrypted session key length [   1 byte ]
     RSA-encrypted session key    [ 128 bytes]
     Initialization vector        [   8 bytes]
     Encrypted header section     [ 328 bytes]
     Padding                      [  31 bytes]

Total size:
  512 bytes

A random 24 bit Triple-DES key is encrypted with RSA, resulting
in 1024 bit of encrypted data.

The header section encrypted with this session key is:

     Packet ID                     [ 16 bytes]
     Triple-DES key                [ 24 bytes]
     Packet type identifier        [  1 byte ]
     Packet type 0:
        19 Initialization vectors  [152 bytes]
        Remailer address           [ 80 bytes]
     Packet type 1:
        Message ID                 [ 16 bytes]
        Initialization vector      [  8 bytes]
     Packet type 2:
        Packet number              [  1 byte ]
        Number of packets          [  1 byte ]
        Message ID                 [ 16 bytes]
        Initialization vector      [  8 bytes]
     Timestamp                     [  7 bytes] (optional)
     Message digest                [ 16 bytes]

Total size:
  Type 0: 297 bytes (+ 7 if timestamp is used)
  Type 1:  81 bytes (+ 7 if timestamp is used)
  Type 2:  83 bytes (+ 7 if timestamp is used)

This data structure is padded to 328 bytes.

Packet ID: randomly generated packet identifier.

Key: symmetric key used to encrypt the following header charts and the
body.

Packet type identifier:

Intermediate hop           0
Final hop                  1
Final hop, partial message 2

Initialization vectors: For packet type 1 and 2, the IV is used to
symmetrically encrypt the body. For packet type 0, there is one IV for
each of the 19 following header charts. The IV for 19th header chart
is also used for the body.

Remailer address: address of next hop.

Message ID: randomly generated identifier unique to (all packets of)
this message.

Packet number: Sequence number used in multi-packet messages.

Number of packets: Total number of packets.

Timestamp: A timestamp is introduced with the byte sequence (48, 48,
48, 48, 0). The following two bytes specify the number of days since
Jan 1, 1970, given in little-endian byte order. A random number of up
to 3 may be substracted from the number of days in order to obscure
the origin of the message.

Digest: MD5 digest computed over the preceding elements of the
encrypted header section.

Header charts 2 .. 20 and the body each are decrypted separately using
the respective initialization vectors.


3.2.2 Body Format

     Number of destinations     [        1 byte]
     Destination addresses      [ 80 bytes each]
     Number of header lines     [        1 byte]
     Header lines               [ 80 bytes each]
     Payload                    [      any size]

Destination addresses are Internet mail addresses. Additionally,
the following special destinations are defined:

null:             Dummy message, will be discarded by the final mix.
post: newsgroup   Message will be posted to Usenet.

The payload may be compressed using GZIP [RFC 1952] if the
capabilities attribute of the final remailer contains the flag
"C". When compressing the message, the operating system field must be
set to Unix, and file names must not be given. The remailer treats
messages beginning with the GZIP identification header (31, 139) as
compressed.

The resulting message is split into chunks of 10236 bytes. To each chunk,
its length is prepended as a 4 byte little-endian number to form the body
of a Mixmaster packet.


3.3 Mail Transfer Encoding

Mixmaster packets are sent as text messages [RFC 822]. The body has
the following format:

  ::
  Remailer-Type: Mixmaster [version number]
  
  -----BEGIN REMAILER MESSAGE-----
  [message length]
  [message digest]
  [encoded message]
  -----END REMAILER MESSAGE-----

The length field always contains the decimal number "20480", since the
size of Mixmaster messages is constant. The MD5 message digest [RFC
1321] of the message is encoded as a hexadecimal string.

The message itself is encoded in base 64 encoding [RFC 1421] and
broken into lines of 40 characters.


4. Key Format

Remailer public key files consist of a list of attributes and a
public RSA key:

  [attributes list]
  
  -----Begin Mix Key-----
  [key ID]
  [length]
  [encoded key]
  -----End Mix Key-----

The attributes are listed in one line separated by spaces:

identifier:   a human readable alphabetical string identifiying the remailer
address:      the remailer's Internet mail address
key ID:       public key ID
version:      the Mixmaster version number
capabilities: flags indicating additional capabilites of the remailers

The identifier consists of alphanumeric characters, begining with an
alphabetic character. It must not contain whitespace.

The encoded key packet consists of two bytes specfying the key length
(1024 bits) in little-endian byte order, and of the RSA modulus and
the public exponent in big-endian form using 128 bytes each, with
preceding null bytes where necessary. The packet is encoded in base
64, and broken into lines of 40 characters each. Its length (258
bytes) is given as a decimal number.

The key ID is the MD5 message digest of the reprentation of the RSA
public key (not including the length bytes). It is encoded as a
hexadecimal string.

The capabilities field is optional. Clients should ignore unknown flags.
The following flags are used in version 2.0.4:

C     accepts compressed messages.
M     will forward messages to another mix, when used as the final hop.
Nm    supports posting to Usenet throught a mail-to-news gateway.
Np    supports direct posting to Usenet.

Digital signatures [RFC 1991] should be used to ensure the
authenticity of the key files.


5. References

[Chaum] Chaum, D., "Untraceable Electronic Mail, Return Addresses, and
Digital Pseudonyms", Communications of the ACM 24 (1981) 2.

[RFC 822] Crocker, D., "Standard for the Format of ARPA Internet Text
Messages", STD 11, RFC 822, August 1982.

[RFC 1321] Rivest, R., "The MD5 Message-Digest Algorithm", RFC 1321,
April 1992.

[RFC 1421] Linn, J., "Privacy Enhancement for Internet Electronic
Mail: Part I -- Message Encryption and Authentication Procedures", RFC
1421, February 1993.

[RFC 1952] Deutsch, P., "GZIP file format specification version 4.3",
RFC 1951, May 1996.

[RFC 1991] Atkins, D., Stallings, W. and Zimmermann, P., "PGP Message
Exchange Formats", RFC 1991, August 1996.

[RFC 2311] Dusse, S., Hoffman, P, Ramsdell, B, Lundblade, L. and
Repka, L., "S/MIME Version 2 Message Specification", RFC 2311, March
1998.

[RFC 2313] Kaliski, B., "PKCS #1: RSA Encryption, Version 1.5", RFC
2313, March 1998.

[Schneier] Schneier, B., "Applied Cryptography", 2nd Edition, Wiley,
1996.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Martin Minow 
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 23:58:04 -0700 (PDT)
To: Hua@teralogic-inc.com>
Subject: RE: Junger et al.
Message-ID: <19980711065637.27355.rocketmail@send1a.yahoomail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


My declaration for the Junger lawsuit (available on jya.com) touched
on these issues, but the court chose not to accept my reasoning. My
quick reading of the decision is that the court took note that sourc
and object code are functional (they control a computer), and chose
to ignore their ability to express an algorithm and, hence, to
communicate
the substance of an encryption algorithm to another human being.

The court also appears to assume that, because computer source code
requires
technical skill and training understand, it somehow loses its First
Amendment privileges: this I find confusing.

Martin Minow (minow@pobox.com)

---Bill Stewart  wrote:
>
> At 03:11 AM 7/7/98 -0400, mgraffam@mhv.net wrote:
> >On Mon, 6 Jul 1998, Ernest Hua wrote:
> >> Did anyone demonstrate the "functionalness" of any arbitrary
language
> >> via a scanner and a compiler?
> >Indeed.. what we need is for someone to testify to the court about
> >natural and computer language, and maybe some relevent material from
> >information theory. 
> >
> >Pseudo-code from any computer programming textbook would be helpful
> >in making this point too.
> >
> >What about English in a voice recognition system? In this case,
English
> >can actually perform functions too, just as C does.
> 
> A particularly relevent language is the Algorithmic Language, Algol,
> which was designed for mathematicians to describe algorithms to each
other,
> though it was also designed in a way to support compilers,
> such as ALGOL-60.
> 				Thanks! 
> 					Bill
> Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
> PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639
> 
> 

==
Please reply to minow@pobox.com


_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: tne1870@hotmail.com
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 11:20:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Pre-Press Pre-owned Equipment
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



INFORMATION ONLY

The Pre-Press Brokerage Company brokers used pre-press 
equipment for the newspaper industry.

Our web address:     http://www.pe.net/~pbc
Our email address:    pbc@pe.net

You may call our office at 909.686.2875.
Thank you for your consideration.

Geoff McPartlin
Sales Director





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: jrsd3424@hotmail.com
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 12:09:19 -0700 (PDT)
To: jrs3453@hotmail.com
Subject: News Release....
Message-ID: <9807091526.AA15333@pharmdec.wustl.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


NEWS RELEASE

NuOncology Labs Inc

Symbol: NLAB
Trades:  OTC BB

July 9, l998

NUONCOLOGY LABS COMPLETES ACQUISITION

Virginia Beach, VA - NuOncology Labs, Inc.
(OTC BB: NLAB), a Florida Corporation, announced
today that it has acquired all the outstanding and 
issued shares of NuOncology Labs, Inc. (Nulab),
a private Virginia Corporation.  The new combined
entity will maintain the name NuOncology Labs Inc.

NuOncology Labs, Inc's Senior Medical Director is
R. Michael Williams, Ph.D, the co-founder, Senior
Medical Director and Chief Medical Officer of Cancer
Treatment Centers of America.  The company's 
Scientific Director is Fraser S. Baker, Ph. D., co-
founder and Director of Baker-Sanger Laboratory,
Inc., a Houston based chemosensitivity testing
laboratory.

NuOncology Labs, Inc. participates in the multi-
billion dollar cancer treatment industry by supporting
the research and marketing of a promising cancer
treatment along with the delivery of predictive tests
for the optimization of contemporary cancer 
treatment.  Both activities could greatly improve
clinical outcomes while reducing treatment costs.



NuOncology Labs Inc has a "dramatically effective 
cancer treatment" in trials with over 200 patients
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initially go public - before they have been
discovered by 'the Street' and financial media
and already doubled or tripled in price.





end.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: tne1870@hotmail.com
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 11:39:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Pre-Press Pre-owned Equipment
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



INFORMATION ONLY

The Pre-Press Brokerage Company brokers used pre-press 
equipment for the newspaper industry.

Our web address:     http://www.pe.net/~pbc
Our email address:    pbc@pe.net

You may call our office at 909.686.2875.
Thank you for your consideration.

Geoff McPartlin
Sales Director





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: tne1870@hotmail.com
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 12:02:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Pre-Press Pre-owned Equipment
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



INFORMATION ONLY

The Pre-Press Brokerage Company brokers used pre-press 
equipment for the newspaper industry.

Our web address:     http://www.pe.net/~pbc
Our email address:    pbc@pe.net

You may call our office at 909.686.2875.
Thank you for your consideration.

Geoff McPartlin
Sales Director





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: tne1870@hotmail.com
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 12:25:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Pre-Press Pre-owned Equipment
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



INFORMATION ONLY

The Pre-Press Brokerage Company brokers used pre-press 
equipment for the newspaper industry.

Our web address:     http://www.pe.net/~pbc
Our email address:    pbc@pe.net

You may call our office at 909.686.2875.
Thank you for your consideration.

Geoff McPartlin
Sales Director





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: tne1870@hotmail.com
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 12:49:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Pre-Press Pre-owned Equipment
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



INFORMATION ONLY

The Pre-Press Brokerage Company brokers used pre-press 
equipment for the newspaper industry.

Our web address:     http://www.pe.net/~pbc
Our email address:    pbc@pe.net

You may call our office at 909.686.2875.
Thank you for your consideration.

Geoff McPartlin
Sales Director





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: tne1870@hotmail.com
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 13:10:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Pre-Press Pre-owned Equipment
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



INFORMATION ONLY

The Pre-Press Brokerage Company brokers used pre-press 
equipment for the newspaper industry.

Our web address:     http://www.pe.net/~pbc
Our email address:    pbc@pe.net

You may call our office at 909.686.2875.
Thank you for your consideration.

Geoff McPartlin
Sales Director





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED/EUREKA! 
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 08:49:40 -0700 (PDT)
To: All Eureka/Stuffed Subscribers: ;
Subject: My date with a dwarf/Nice guys come first
Message-ID: <19980711145448.24797.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/html

CLICK FOR STUFFED: Saturday July 11 1998

Click Here For STUFFED, The NEW Daily Tabloid
 News And Babes Color Supplement From Eureka!

Click here to read it: http://stuffed.net/98/7/11/



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 58577650@bluewin.ch
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 22:34:50 -0700 (PDT)
To: IIIIIOOOOO@mail-gw2adm.rcsntx.swbell.net
Subject: IIIII=Email Advertising?=IIIII
Message-ID: <199807130528.AAA24174@mail-gw2adm.rcsntx.swbell.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


WE REALLY SEND IT !                
         
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSqncrs@aol.com
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 23:21:47 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: A Note to 'Nobody'
Message-ID: <490d1a8.35a855ce@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hey 'Nobody' (tcmay@got.net (Tim May)), you may as well stop sending me all
your junk mail.  Since you've resorted to attempting to get me kicked off of
AOL for responding to individual pieces of it (Cypherpunks, that's a lie.  He
did that attempt in an attempt to get my website kicked off of AOL), I'm
simply deleting everything that comes in from all the anon. remailing services
without reading it.

If you don't have enough guts to put a return address on your mail, obviously,
you aren't worth reading.

Stan,
Stan and the Sequencers
http://members.aol.com/StanSqncrs/




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Global Web Builders 
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 14:33:30 -0700 (PDT)
To: (Recipient list suppressed)
Subject: The Australia/Israel Review list and Jetset Travel
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980711210318.007236b8@gwb.com.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Dear One Nation supporter in NSW,

It should be noted by One Nation supporters that the man behind the
Australia/Israel Review, Mr Leibler, is one of the men behind Jetset Travel. 

When booking your next holiday trip I would ask you to consider what
Leibler's views are on the publication of the list of the names and Suburbs
of 2000 One Nation members and donors in the Australia/Israel Review.

Mr Leibler said the decision to publish the list of members and donors was
in the interests of "political transparency". He said concerns about privacy
had been met by not publishing full addresses and telephone numbers. 

What Leibler failed to mention is that they published the suburbs that
members live in. Many One Nation members had phone calls from the media -
contacts made directly through the list published by the Australia/Israel
Review. 

The Australia/Israel Review has since shelved plans to publish the names of
One Nation's remaining 8,000 members. Mr Leibler said: "We feel we have made
our point."

Perhaps it is time for One Nation supporters to make their point?

Jetset can be contacted on: info@jetset.com.au 

GWB



Scott Balson





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSqncrs@aol.com
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 04:26:15 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com (coolness)
Subject: Re: A Note to 'Nobody'
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


In a message dated 7/12/98 2:33:18 AM Central Daylight Time, tcmay@got.net
writes:

<< ... Further proof that AOL is the dumping ground for the incompetent. >>

And Tim expects AOL to listen to his complaint with that at the end of it?
Ha!

Stan




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED/EUREKA! 
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 04:18:45 -0700 (PDT)
To: All Eureka/Stuffed Subscribers: ;
Subject: World's dumbest gunslinger/Exclusive: Are her tits real?
Message-ID: <19980712093021.24392.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/html

CLICK FOR STUFFED: Sunday July 12 1998

Click Here For STUFFED, The NEW Daily Tabloid
 News And Babes Color Supplement From Eureka!

Click here to read it: http://stuffed.net/98/7/12/



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 08:38:25 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: DirFBI: Danger of Encryption
Message-ID: <199807121538.LAA18345@camel14.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


The New York Times, July 12, 1998:

Danger of Encryption

To the Editor:

Re "Privacy in the Digital Age" (editorial, July 6): No law 
enforcement agency is "trying hard to prevent the growing 
use of encryption." But encryption represents a serious 
public safety concern. We are open to any solution that 
recognizes that it is the ability to collect electronic 
evidence that has allowed us to prevent airliners from 
being bombed and to put major drug dealers behind bars.

Key escrow is one possible solution. There are others, and 
certainly a statutory scheme can be devised that will all 
but eliminate any risk of abuse by law enforcement. But if 
we do not allow for court-ordered access, for the first time 
in the history of this country a court order for seizure of 
evidence will be an absolute nullity.

We want to work with industry on a real solution, recognizing 
that those who acquire encryption over the Internet or from 
abroad naively make assumptions about the security it affords. 
We are not fighting encryption, but we know what will happen 
if technology cannot be made to work for law enforcement as 
it works for criminals and terrorists.    

Louis J. FREEH
Dir., Federal Bureau of Investigation
Washington, July 10,1998






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Webroot@ix.netcom.com
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 18:38:01 -0700 (PDT)
To: Webroot@ix.netcom.com
Subject: Cancer Treatment BREAKTHROUGH!!!!
Message-ID: <199807060040.TAA11965@cityatlas.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Trei Family 
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 20:19:04 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: RSA DES Challenge starting!
Message-ID: <35A989DA.C1246441@ziplink.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I'd like to remind people that Monday, July 13th,
1998, RSA Data Security is releasing the challenge
data for the next RSA DES Challenge (the brute force
solution of a DES encrypted message).

For more information on this challenge, please see
http://www.rsa.com. The prize stands at 10,000 USD
for the first solution found within 10 days.

If wish to attempt the challenge by yourself, I
reccomend that you look at Svend Mikkelsen's
Bryddes (http://inet.uni2.dk/~svolaf/des.htm),
which is by far the fastest Intel implementation
I know of - considerably better than my own
Deskr.

If you're interested in a joint effort, you could
do worse than look at http://distributed.net. This
group won the RC5-56 and January 1998 DES challenges,
and are currently working on RC5-64. Their clients
will automatically switch over to DES Monday
morning. It looks like they should attain around
86 billion keys/second, which will exhaust the
keyspace in under 10 days. However, only a fraction
of the prize money goes to the person who finds
the key.

Cracking DES in these challenges serves a higher
purpose than winning a prize or gaining bragging
rights.

Single DES (the kind used in this challenge) is the
strongest general purpose encryption which Americans
are currently permitted to send overseas without
special and rarely granted waivers.

As a result, the US government is turning over the
world market in high quality cryptography to
non-US firms, with a cost of billions of dollars a
year to the US economy, thousands of American jobs,
and increased crime and terrorism resulting from the
poor security this policy promotes.

Demonstrating how vulnerable US 'export quality'
encryption actually is creates pressure to remove
those restrictions entirely.

I regard this as a desirable goal.

Peter Trei
trei@ziplink.net






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Xcott Craver 
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 22:22:33 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: DirFBI: Danger of Encryption
In-Reply-To: <199807121538.LAA18345@camel14.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Sun, 12 Jul 1998, John Young wrote:

> The New York Times, July 12, 1998:
>
	[...]
 
> but eliminate any risk of abuse by law enforcement. But if 
> we do not allow for court-ordered access, for the first time 
> in the history of this country a court order for seizure of 
> evidence will be an absolute nullity.

	This is an interesting claim.  Surely it's only been
	in this century that law enforcement has ever had 
	the kind of systematic access to communication that presently
	does.  I'd say Louis Freeh is lacking in the history department
	if he really believes that Americans have never possessed
	as much privacy as strong crypto offers.

	I'd also say he's missed a few history classes if he 
	thinks that the world will blow up without him listening
	in.

							-Xcott





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED/EUREKA! 
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 04:38:55 -0700 (PDT)
To: All Eureka/Stuffed Subscribers: ;
Subject: Woman saved by sex/Dog chewed my balls off
Message-ID: <19980713092147.6142.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/html

Click for STUFFED: Monday July 13 1998


Click here for STUFFED, the new daily
 tabloid news, humor and babes newspaper from Eureka!

This is a combined text/html email. If your email client can
display html web pages  you probably won't see this text but
should see the front cover of today's issue above, which you
should  click on to read.  If you cannot see the cover, your
email client either cannot display html or its' options have
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Click here to read today's! --> http://stuffed.net/98/7/13/

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: tne1870@hotmail.com
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 09:33:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Pre-Press Pre-Owned Equipment
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



INFORMATION ONLY:
The Pre-Press Brokerage Company brokers used pre-press
equipment for the printing industry.

Our web address:          http://www.pe.net/~pbc

Our e-mail address:        pbc@pe.net

You may call:   909.686.2875

Thank you for your consideration.

Geoff McPartlin, Sales Director





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 08:22:46 -0700 (PDT)
To: "Paul H. Merrill" 
Subject: Re: DirFBI: Danger of Encryption
In-Reply-To: <35AA4A36.1EB56250@acm.org>
Message-ID: <199807131528.KAA013.84@geiger.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In <35AA4A36.1EB56250@acm.org>, on 07/13/98 
   at 10:56 AM, "Paul H. Merrill"  said:

>Actually, his statement was interesting and a masterpiece.  While it is
>true that the access to communications is recent, the court orders for
>evidence have been around.  What he "failed to mention" was that they
>have access currently which is unheard of in the past and that it is only
>that slice of life that would have "absolute nullity".

>Gee, don't they teach Propoganda 101 anymore?

Sure they do, it's part of the on the job training for all government
employees.

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgp.html
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: Dos: Venerable.  Windows: Vulnerable.  OS/2: Viable.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3a-sha1
Charset: cp850
Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000

iQCVAwUBNaonpY9Co1n+aLhhAQEgMAQAy+xSgY6m3cAS4M3ccqqNgGYA4uuSBNE6
Ik4SzG+GW2I0whBcqcS4hICPCgTKIMqDFvZ6dL2MLnV2HeFnpgwhVyAETa/Sd7rj
CwEDiUqw38rUzUmahjFR1VWBqe90SjWBklLSMlcwIoigreV5QusutU4izadnmD0e
jKO+VzFu15U=
=P8VS
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Paul H. Merrill" 
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 07:48:21 -0700 (PDT)
To: Xcott Craver 
Subject: Re: DirFBI: Danger of Encryption
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <35AA4A36.1EB56250@acm.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Actually, his statement was interesting and a masterpiece.  While it is
true that the access to communications is recent, the court orders for
evidence have been around.  What he "failed to mention" was that they have
access currently which is unheard of in the past and that it is only that
slice of life that would have "absolute nullity".

Gee, don't they teach Propoganda 101 anymore?

PHM

Xcott Craver wrote:

> On Sun, 12 Jul 1998, John Young wrote:
>
> > The New York Times, July 12, 1998:
> >
>         [...]
>
> > but eliminate any risk of abuse by law enforcement. But if
> > we do not allow for court-ordered access, for the first time
> > in the history of this country a court order for seizure of
> > evidence will be an absolute nullity.
>
>         This is an interesting claim.  Surely it's only been
>         in this century that law enforcement has ever had
>         the kind of systematic access to communication that presently
>         does.  I'd say Louis Freeh is lacking in the history department
>         if he really believes that Americans have never possessed
>         as much privacy as strong crypto offers.
>
>         I'd also say he's missed a few history classes if he
>         thinks that the world will blow up without him listening
>         in.
>
>                                                         -Xcott







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Support Online Staff" 
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 11:31:29 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: Developer Support News Watch - July 13, 1998
Message-ID: <199807131831.LAA05698@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Developer Support News Watch
============================
As a subscriber to Developer Support News Watch, you receive e-mail
twice each month that highlights some of the new articles recently
published on Support Online, Microsoft's award-winning technical support
web site.  

Table of Contents
=================
(1) Announcements
(2) New Knowledge Base Articles
(3) Requesting Articles via E-Mail
(4) Developer Product FAQs & Support Resources
(5) Additional Resources

(1) Announcements

Integrated Solutions: Microsoft Business Applications Conference 98
-------------------------------------------------------------------
At the Microsoft Business Applications Conference, the content will 
be technical, but the focus will be on how you can build the best 
integrated solutions for your most common business problems. 
Sign up today -- see http://www.microsoft.com/events/bizapps/

Southern California Developers
------------------------------
Attention all Developers in Southern California :
On July 21 & 22, attend the FREE Microsoft TechNet Quarterly Briefing and 
gain the know-how to implement the latest technology. Keynote on the Windows 
desktop plus a developer must: the Developer Track covering Windows DNA and 
3-tier app development.  Use VIP CODE LSMTS.

New Features Make Finding Your Answers on Support Online Even Easier
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Support Online recently released a number of new features to make it 
even easier to find the answers you need. The following highlights some of 
the enhancements you'll see on Support Online at http://support.microsoft.com/.

For information about how to use these new Support Online features, see 
http://support.microsoft.com/support/howto/.

- Specify an article ID number. If you know the ID number of the 
  Knowledge Base article you want, you can enter the ID number 
  to find that specific article.

- Search for troubleshooting tools. Now you can customize your 
  search to include troubleshooting tools only.

- Search for specific drivers and other downloadable files. If you
  know the name of the driver or download file you want, enter the
  full file name to find the file on Support Online. 

- See what's new. If you want to see the latest information about 
  a product and/or a topic, use the What's New option and select 
  the number of days you want to review. You can select 1, 3, 7, 
  14, or 30 days.  

- Toggle between Advanced View and Basic View. Advanced View 
  offers additional search options and other features. Now you 
  can easily toggle between Advanced View and Basic View.

Need help using these features? See http://support.microsoft.com/support/howto/.


(2) New Knowledge Base Articles
===============================
In addition to the FAQ documents mentioned below, the 
following articles were recently updated in the Microsoft Knowledge Base:

ActiveX Data Objects 
--------------------
PRB: Decimal Values Passed to a Stored Procedure Get Truncated (Q188574)
  http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q188/5/74.asp

ActiveX SDK 
-----------
INFO: Internet Explorer designMode Property Is Not Supported (Q188864)
  http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q188/8/64.asp

Active Server Pages 
-------------------
PRB: Request.ServerVariables("LOGON_USER") Returns Empty String (Q188717)
  http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q188/7/17.asp
PRB: Implements Keyword Fails in VB DLL called from ASP (Q188716)
  http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q188/7/16.asp
HOWTO: Change Information in a Database from ASP (Q188713)
  http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q188/7/13.asp

Automation/VBA
--------------
BUG: Starting Word Manually Uses Same Instance as Automation (Q188546)
  http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q188/5/46.asp

Internet Development 
--------------------
PRB: The File Upload Control Cannot Publish Your Files (Q188953)
  http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q188/9/53.asp
BETA-INFO: DHTML Behaviors Limited to One Per HTML Element (Q188866)
  http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q188/8/66.asp
PRB: Forms 2.0 CommandButton Fires Click Event When Disabled (Q188766)
  http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q188/7/66.asp
BETA-PRB: Type Mismatch for Document.parentWindow (Q188764)
  http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q188/7/64.asp
BUG: document.readyState Not in Sync with Download in IFrame (Q188763)
  http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q188/7/63.asp
HOWTO: Show Web Page Source from a Hyperlink (Q188762)
  http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q188/7/62.asp

Java
----
BUG: KEY_PRESSED Event Not Generated for Some Controls (Q188808)
  http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q188/8/08.asp
FIX: Setting Colors for List/Choice Control Fails (Q188448)
  http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q188/4/48.asp
FIX: AFC Deadlock May Occur When Setting UIFrame's Cursor. (Q188446)
  http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q188/4/46.asp

MAPI Programming 
----------------
HOWTO: Use BatchExport to Specify Which Attributes to Export (Q188960)
  http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q188/9/60.asp
PRB: Error 2001 Linking Simple MAPI Applications (Q188959)
  http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q188/9/59.asp
INFO: Possible Causes for Memory Leaks in MAPI Clients/Providers (Q188958)
  http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q188/9/58.asp
PRB: Transport Causes MAPI Spooler to Shutdown Unexpectedly (Q188653)
  http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q188/6/53.asp
PRB: CDO Rendering Library Not Available Outside of ASP (Q188599)
  http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q188/5/99.asp
HOWTO: Open the Global Profile Section (Q188482)
  http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q188/4/82.asp

Mastering Series 
----------------
PRB: Troubleshooting Active Movie Problems in Mastering Series (Q188660)
  http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q188/6/60.asp
PRB: Marisa.dll Causes Movie Clip Errors in Mastering Series (Q188445)
  http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q188/4/45.asp

ODBC Programming 
----------------
PRB: Stored Procedure Invocation Returns "Protocol Error in TDS" (Q188558)
  http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q188/5/58.asp
Internet Scripting Languages 
HOWTO: Use Internet Transfer Control in ASP or in WSH Script (Q188955)
  http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q188/9/55.asp

Visual Basic 
------------
BUG: Incorrect Localized Strings Display in the Visual Basic IDE (Q189056)
  http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q189/0/56.asp
PRB: ITC Cannot Perform ASCII-type FTP Transfer (Q188956)
  http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q188/9/56.asp
HOWTO: Use the Remote Data Control to Pass Bookmarks (Q188861)
  http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q188/8/61.asp
FILE: VB5SP3DS.EXE Contains Visual Basic SP3 Debugging Symbols (Q188588)
  http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q188/5/88.asp
HOWTO: Expedite the Visual Basic Support Process (Q188586)
  http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q188/5/86.asp
BUG: UserControl's ContainedControls Do Not Inherit ScaleMode (Q188552)
  http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q188/5/52.asp
INFO: Visual Basic Requirements for Using Exported DLLs (Q188541)
  http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q188/5/41.asp

Visual C++ 
----------
BUG: Calling CHttpFile::ErrorDlg Function Causes Errors 127 & 2 (Q189094)
  http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q189/0/94.asp
BUG: Step 2 of the MFC AppWizard Does Not Set Macro Values (Q189073)
  http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q189/0/73.asp
PRB: WinDBG for WinCe 2.0 Does Not Support Named Pipes (Q189036)
  http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q189/0/36.asp
HOWTO: VC++ MFC Client for the ComCallingJava Sample (Q188817)
  http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q188/8/17.asp
BUG: AV Using ios-Derived Type in Multithreaded Apps (Q188721)
  http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q188/7/21.asp
PRB: Error Executing ~vcecho!Compiling (Q188720)
  http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q188/7/20.asp
BUG: Error C1083 Building Large Projects with Browse Info (Q188708)
  http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q188/7/08.asp
INFO: Visual C++ and the Year 2000, Years that Cause an Overflow (Q188707)
  http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q188/7/07.asp
BUG: Memory Leak with Jet 3.51 and Remote ODBC Data Sources (Q188579)
  http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q188/5/79.asp

Visual FoxPro 
-------------
HOWTO: Determine the Operating System Build Number (Q188987)
  http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q188/9/87.asp
HOWTO: Use the Win32 API to Access File Dates and Times (Q188977)
  http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q188/9/77.asp
HOWTO: Setting the System Date and Time Programmatically (Q188897)
  http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q188/8/97.asp
BUG: "String is too long to fit" Error Passing Variables to COM (Q188888)
  http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q188/8/88.asp
PRB: "Cannot Open File" Message Building FoxPro 2.6 Project (Q188536)
  http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q188/5/36.asp
HOWTO: Sharing Data Between Processes Using Memory-Mapped Files (Q188535)
  http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q188/5/35.asp
HOWTO: Use API Calls to Detect Other Running Applications (Q188404)
  http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q188/4/04.asp
HOWTO: Modify Report Fields Programmatically (Q188403)
  http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q188/4/03.asp
PRB: ACCESS Cannot Import/Link Table if Index Contains Function (Q188401)
  http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q188/4/01.asp

Visual InterDev
---------------
BUG: Executing "SP_PrimaryKey" results in no primary key (Q188719)
  http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q188/7/19.asp
HOWTO: Troubleshoot IUSR_machine Permissions Problem (Q188712)
  http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q188/7/12.asp

Win32 SDK 
---------
HOWTO: Programmatically Trigger a SNMP Trap (Q189131)
  http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q189/1/31.asp
FIX: ICMP API Header & Library Files Missing from Windows CE (Q189120)
  http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q189/1/20.asp
HOWTO: Create Context-Sensitive HTML Help in a Visual Basic App (Q189086)
  http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q189/0/86.asp
HOWTO: Use the SetupAPI's SetupIterateCabinet() Function (Q189085)
  http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q189/0/85.asp
HOWTO: Create a Tri-pane Window with HTML Help Workshop (Q189084)
  http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q189/0/84.asp
BUG: LoadPerfCounterTextString Fails with Error 87 (Q188769)
  http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q188/7/69.asp
INFO: Working with the FILETIME Structure (Q188768)
  http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q188/7/68.asp
HOWTO: Specify Access Control on Window NT Container Objects (Q188760)
  http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q188/7/60.asp
INFO: UserDomain Method Does Not Work Under Win95 with WSH (Q188602)
  http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q188/6/02.asp
BUG: ADSI NDS Provider Does Not Support Extension of NDS Schema (Q188510)
  http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q188/5/10.asp
BUG: Editing MAP or ALIAS in the HTML Help Workshop Causes Error (Q188444)
  http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q188/4/44.asp


(3) Requesting articles via e-mail
==================================

You can also receive these articles (and others) in e-mail by sending a message to mshelp@microsoft.com. In the Subject line of your message, enter the Article-ID number (Qnnnnnn). For example to receive Q162721, your Subject line should resemble the following example:

   Subject: Q162721

You can have multiple articles sent to you in e-mail by typing multiple Article-ID numbers separated by a comma. For example:

   Subject: Q178049, Q174914, Q174062

To receive an index of articles, enter "Index" (without quotation marks) in the Subject line. For example: 

   Subject: Index

The MSHelp Index is updated monthly. For more information about MSHelp, see http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q183/1/21.asp.

Visit Support Online
--------------------

We also encourage you to visit Support Online at http://support.microsoft.com/support/ to see our complete selection of helpful articles designed to answer questions about using Microsoft products.

(4) Developer Product FAQs & Support Resources
==============================================
Here's some highlights and pointers to the latest information on 
Microsoft Developer Tools:

Visual Studio Service Pack Released: Visual Studio 97 Service Pack 3 
contains bug fixes for many tools, and is now available for developers 
who use any of the Visual Studio tools. See 
http://www.microsoft.com/vstudio/sp/ for the latest information.

Visual BASIC Frequently Asked Questions:
For pointers to the latest Visual BASIC FAQ's, see
http://support.microsoft.com/support/vbasic/faq/default.asp

Visual C++ 5.0 (Professional & Enterprise) 
Frequently Asked Questions - FAQ (Q167654), see
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q167/6/54.asp

Visual FoxPro 5.0 Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ), see
http://support.microsoft.com/support/vfoxpro/content/faq
/vfoxpro/vfp50win/default.asp

Visual J++ Frequently Asked Questions - FAQ (Q169173), see
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q169/1/73.asp

Visual InterDev Troubleshooting Guide:
Look through this guide to help you quickly troubleshoot and overcome
the most common technical issues you may encounter when first setting up
your Microsoft Visual InterDev working environment.
See http://support.microsoft.com/support/vinterdev/content/tsguide.asp

Microsoft SourceSafe Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) (Q134369), see
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q134/3/69.asp

Microsoft Developer Support Messaging Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
http://support.microsoft.com/support/messagingsdk/faq/default.asp

Multimedia Sample Projects:
Add multimedia functionality to your Visual Basic program by using the
techniques in these Visual Basic sample projects. See
http://support.microsoft.com/support/vbasic/vbmm.asp

Active Template Library (ATL) Frequently Asked Questions (Q166480), see
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q166/4/80.asp

Popular MFC Samples--created by support engineers for MFC developers.
See http://support.microsoft.com/support/visualc/atlmfc/samples.asp

OLE Automation Using MFC
For the latest articles about automating Microsoft Office 97 components
using the Microsoft Foundation Classes (MFC), see
http://support.microsoft.com/support/visualc/atlmfc/oleatmfc.asp

VBA Software Development Kit Frequently Asked Questions - FAQ (Q170298) 
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q170/2/98.asp

COM Security Frequently Asked Questions - FAQ (Q158508), see 
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q158/5/08.asp

ADC 1.0 FAQ Available for Download (Q165292), see
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q165/2/92.asp
Or download directly from:
http://support.microsoft.com/download/support/mslfiles/ADC10FAQ.EXE

Visual Modeler 1.0 Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)(Q166395), see
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q166/3/95.asp

ActiveX Data Objects (ADO) Frequently Asked Questions (Q183606) 
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q183/6/06.asp 

Microsoft Internet Finance Server Toolkit (MIFST) Frequently Asked 
Questions (Q182448) 
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q182/4/48.asp 

Developing with the ActiveX SDK - FAQ (Q158264), see 
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q158/2/64.asp 

Developing with the Internet Client SDK - FAQ (Q167435), see 
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q167/4/35.asp

SDK for Java Frequently Asked Questions - FAQ (Q168942), see
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q168/9/42.asp

Microsoft SDK for Java Release:
Go to this page to download the latest released Microsoft SDK for 
Java (2.02), which contains the Java VM from IE 4.01, support 
for JDK 1.1, J/Direct, AFC, samples, the latest Java compiler, 
and documentation.  See http://www.microsoft.com/java/download.htm

The latest Microsoft VM for Java: Easily upgrade to the latest VM, 
See http://www.microsoft.com/java/vm/dl_vmsp2.htm

Java/COM/DCOM Frequently Asked Questions - FAQ (Q168935), see
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q168/9/35.asp

CAB Files Frequently Asked Questions - FAQ (Q168941), see
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q168/9/41.asp

AFC Frequently Asked Questions - FAQ (Q168943) 
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q168/9/43.asp


(5) Additional Resources
========================
In addition, the following resources might prove helpful:

Check out the MSDN "Buzz" for the latest information on Microsoft's
developer tools and strategies: http://www.microsoft.com/msdn/

For the latest and greatest information about Internet technologies,
the Microsoft SiteBuilder Network can be found at:
http://www.microsoft.com/workshop/default.asp

For links to specific developer tools products and technologies, refer to:
Products:  http://www.microsoft.com/msdn/products/
Technologies:  http://www.microsoft.com/msdn/techsite/

TechNet has a new site, ITHome, which offers comprehensive resources for
corporate developers: http://www.microsoft.com/ithome/


Sincerely,
The Microsoft Developer Support team

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Microsoft-sponsored events:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
For information on all Microsoft-sponsored events, please visit:
http://www.microsoft.com/events/

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
How to use this mailing list:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You received this e-mail newsletter as a result of your registration on the Microsoft.com Personal Information Center. You may unsubscribe from this e-mail newsletter, or subscribe to a variety of other informative e-mail newsletters, by returning to the Personal Information Center at
http://register.microsoft.com/regwiz/personalinfo.asp
and changing your subscription preferences.

Alternatively, please send a reply to this e-mail with the word "unsubscribe" as the first line in the body of the message.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
THIS DOCUMENT IS PROVIDED FOR INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY.  The information contained in this document represents the current view of Microsoft Corporation on the issues discussed as of the date of publication.  Because Microsoft must respond to change in market conditions, it should not be interpreted to be a commitment on the part of Microsoft and Microsoft cannot guarantee the accuracy of any information presented after the date of publication.
INFORMATION PROVIDED IN THIS DOCUMENT IS PROVIDED 'AS IS' WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND FREEDOM FROM INFRINGEMENT.
The user assumes the entire risk as to the accuracy and the use of this document. This  document may be copied and distributed subject to the following conditions:
1.   All text must be copied without modification and all pages must be included
2.   All copies must contain Microsoft's copyright notice and any other notices provided therein
3.   This document may not be distributed for profit




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: CTIA Daily News 
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 09:42:12 -0700 (PDT)
To: CTIA Daily News 
Subject: CTIA Daily News from WOW-COM - July 13, 1998
Message-ID: <199807131633.LAA24664@mailstrom.revnet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




=============================================
Welcome to today's edition of the CTIA
Daily News
from WOW-COM.  Please click on the
icon / attachment
for the most important news in wireless
communications today.

WIRELESS IT '98, The Next Generation in
Personal
Computing & Communications October
12-14,
Las Vegas, Nevada Call (202) 785-0081 for
more information!
=============================================

 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael 
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 00:30:47 -0700 (PDT)
To: webmasterlist@nudevision.com
Subject: FREE XXX VIDEO for your site !!
Message-ID: <18330673314336@nudevision.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 08:53:09 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Home/Officeland Defense
Message-ID: <199807131553.LAA07422@camel14.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Thanks to DT


http://www.fcw.com/pubs/fcw/1998/0713/fcw-newscyber-7-13-98.html

The Defense Department plans to create a new military organization 
to spearhead DOD's effort to protect the nation's critical computer 
systems against information warfare attacks, marking the first time 
DOD has taken responsibility for protecting infrastructure within
the United States. ...

The Pentagon also is considering the formation of a reserve cadre 
of "cyberdefense warriors," who would have hands-on responsibility 
for protecting the nation's sensitive information networks and 
systems from information warfare attacks. According to an industry 
source familiar with the project, about 300 Ph.D.-carrying 
reservists would work from home computers that would be tied into 
high-speed communications links. DOD has budgeted $10 million to 
jump-start the effort, the source said. ...






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Sergey Bobok 
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 08:32:37 -0700 (PDT)
To: "cypherpunks%toad.com@fido.alkar.dp.ua>
Subject: 
Message-ID: <900340977@p3.f9.n4646.z2.FIDOnet>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "The Birkenstock Store" 
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 11:35:41 -0700 (PDT)
To: "Cypherpunks" 
Subject: Birkenstocks on Sale Now!!
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Avi Rubin 
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 12:34:37 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Cipher: IEEE TC on Security & Privacy Newsletter is online
Message-ID: <199807131932.PAA01744@mgoblue.research.att.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Newsgroups: sci.crypt,alt.security,comp.security.misc,alt.security.pgp
Subject: Cipher: IEEE TC on Security & Privacy Newsletter is online
Summary: 
Expires: 
Sender: 
Followup-To: 
Distribution: world
Organization: AT&T Labs, Florham Park, NJ
Keywords: 
Cc: 

Cipher is the electronic newsletter of the IEEE Technical Committee on 
Security & Privacy. We put out a newsletter by e-mail every couple of 
months. There is also a companion web site at:

   http://www.itd.nrl.navy.mil/ITD/5540/ieee/cipher/

Below is the table of contents of our latest issue. You can find subscription
information on the web site, or just visit back from time to time.




       _/_/_/_/  _/_/_/  _/_/_/_/   _/    _/  _/_/_/_/  _/_/_/_/
      _/          _/    _/     _/  _/    _/  _/        _/     _/
     _/          _/    _/_/_/_/   _/_/_/_/  _/_/      _/_/_/_/
    _/          _/    _/         _/    _/  _/        _/   _/
   _/_/_/_/  _/_/_/  _/         _/    _/  _/_/_/_/  _/     _/

====================================================================
Newsletter of the IEEE Computer Society's TC on Security and Privacy
Electronic Issue 28                                    July 13, 1998
Avi Rubin and Paul Syverson, Editors
                                       Bob Bruen, Book Review Editor
                                        Hilarie Orman, Assoc. Editor
                                     Mary Ellen Zurko, Assoc. Editor
                                      Anish Mathuria, Reader's Guide
====================================================================
         http://www.itd.nrl.navy.mil/ITD/5540/ieee/cipher/

Contents:                                         [3037 lines total]
 o  Letter from the TC Chair
 o  Letter from the Editor
Security and Privacy News Briefs:
 o LISTWATCH: Items from security-related lists, by Mary Ellen Zurko
 o Microsoft Plans for FIPS 140-1 Compliance
 o Common Criteria Full-use Version 2.0 Completed
 o Purdue CERIAS Opens
 o US Government Announces Comprehensive Privacy Plan
 o Controversial Intellectual Property Law Headed Towards Enactment
 o SKIPJACK and KEA declassified, Biham et al. Announce Cryptanalysis
 o AES Submissions All In
 o DataFellows Reports On Word Macro Virus
 o Industry coalition pushes for new Encryption policy
Commentary and Opinion: Book Reviews by Bob Bruen
 o Virtual Private Network.
   by Charles Scott, Paul Wolfe & Mike Erwin. Reviewed by Robert Bruen
 o Java Security.
   by Gary McGraw and Edward Felten. Reviewed by Robert Bruen
 o Java Security.
   by Scott Oaks. Reviewed by Robert Bruen
 o Java Cryptography.
   by Jonathan Knudsen. Reviewed by Robert Bruen
 o Protecting Networks with Satan.
   by Martin Freiss. Translated by Robert Bach. Reviewed by Robert Bruen
Conference Reports:
 o IEEE Symposium on Security and Privacy (Oakland '98) by Mary Ellen Zurko
 o IEEE Computer Security Foundations Workshop (CSFW11) by Levente Buttyan
 o LICS98 Workshop on Formal Methods and Security Protocols by Scott Stoller
Conference announcements:
 o ACM Conference on Computer and Communications Security
 o ASIACRYPT'98
New reports available via FTP and WWW: several
New Interesting Links on the Web
Who's Where: recent address changes
Calls for Papers: NDSS, DCCA, ASSET, FC, PKC, S&P (Oakland), JCS, DPS
Reader's guide to recent security and privacy literature
 o Conference Papers
 o Journal and Newsletter articles
Calendar
List of Computer Security Academic Positions, maintained by Cynthia Irvine
Publications for Sale -- S&P and CSFW proceedings available
TC officers
Information for Subscribers and Contributors


*********************************************************************
Aviel D. Rubin                                 rubin@research.att.com
Secure Systems Research Dept.                Adjunct Professor at NYU
AT&T Labs - Research
180 Park Avenue                   http://www.research.att.com/~rubin/
Florham Park, NJ 07932-0971                    Voice: +1 973 360-8356
USA                                            FAX:   +1 973 360-8809

   --> Check out http://www.clark.net/pub/mjr/websec/ for a new
       book on web security (The Web Security Sourcebook).
*********************************************************************




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Support Online Staff" 
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 19:32:30 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199807140232.TAA09439@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Microsoft Office Support News Watch
===================================

As a subscriber to the Microsoft Office Support News Watch, you receive e-mail twice each month that highlights some of the new articles recently published on Support Online, Microsoft's award-winning technical support web site.

Office
======

For the latest information about Microsoft Office 97 SR-1 see these Knowledge Base articles.

   Q172475   OFF97: How to Obtain and Install MS Office 97 SR-1
   http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q172/4/75.asp

   Q174422   OFF97: Microsoft Office 97 Service Release 1 Patch Update
   http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q174/4/22.asp

   Q150613   OFF97: Microsoft Office 97 Service Release 1 Patch
   http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q150/6/13.asp

   Q173990   OFF97: Troubleshooting the Microsoft Office 97 SR-1 Patch
   http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q173/9/90.asp

   Q156542   OFF97: Microsoft Office 97 Service Release 1 Enterprise Update
   http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q156/5/42.asp

   Q171749   OFF97: How to Determine If SR-1 Is Installed
   http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q171/7/49.asp

   Q172387   OFF97: Files Installed and Updated in MS Office 97 SR-1 Patch
   http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q172/3/87.asp

   Q172476   OFF97: Contents of the Microsoft Office 97 SR-1 Patch Readme
   http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q172/4/76.asp

Net Show and the Microsoft Media Player
=======================================

The Net Show Player has been replaced by the new Microsoft Media Player. The latest Net Show and Microsoft Media Player support information is available at:

   http://support.microsoft.com/support/NetShow/

Download the new media player at:

   http://www.microsoft.com/windows/mediaplayer/

Microsoft Chat
==============

The latest support information for Microsoft Chat, version 2.5 is available at:

   http://support.microsoft.com/support/chat/

Get Support Online Articles by E-mail
=====================================

You can also receive these articles (and others) in e-mail by sending a message to mshelp@microsoft.com. In the Subject line of your message, enter the Article-ID number (Qnnnnnn). For example to receive Q162721, your Subject line should resemble the following example:

   Subject: Q162721

You can have multiple articles sent to you in e-mail by typing multiple Article-ID numbers separated by a comma. For example:

   Subject: Q178049, Q174914, Q174062

To receive an index of articles, enter "Index" (without quotation marks) in the Subject line. For example: 

   Subject: Index

The MSHelp Index is updated monthly. For more information about MSHelp, see http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q183/1/21.asp.


Sincerely,
The Support Online team

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Microsoft-sponsored events:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
For information on all Microsoft-sponsored events, please visit:
http://www.microsoft.com/events/

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
How to use this mailing list:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You received this e-mail newsletter as a result of your registration on the Microsoft.com Personal Information Center. You may unsubscribe from this e-mail newsletter, or subscribe to a variety of other informative e-mail newsletters, by returning to the Personal Information Center at
http://register.microsoft.com/regwiz/personalinfo.asp
and changing your subscription preferences.

Alternatively, please send a reply to this e-mail with the word "unsubscribe" as the first line in the body of the message.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
THIS DOCUMENT IS PROVIDED FOR INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY.  The information contained in this document represents the current view of Microsoft Corporation on the issues discussed as of the date of publication.  Because Microsoft must respond to change in market conditions, it should not be interpreted to be a commitment on the part of Microsoft and Microsoft cannot guarantee the accuracy of any information presented after the date of publication.
INFORMATION PROVIDED IN THIS DOCUMENT IS PROVIDED 'AS IS' WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND FREEDOM FROM INFRINGEMENT.
The user assumes the entire risk as to the accuracy and the use of this document. This  document may be copied and distributed subject to the following conditions:
1.   All text must be copied without modification and all pages must be included
2.   All copies must contain Microsoft's copyright notice and any other notices provided therein
3.   This document may not be distributed for profit




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 10:14:58 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: DirFBI: Danger of Encryption
Message-ID: <199807131715.TAA06057@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Sunday, July 12, 1998, in The New York Times, Louis J. Freeh 
had the unmitigated gall of a lying Nazi Fuck to write:

> To the Editor:
> 
> Re "Privacy in the Digital Age" (editorial, July 6): No law 
> enforcement agency is "trying hard to prevent the growing 
> use of encryption." 

In the face of such overwhelming evidence as virtually 
litters the landscape and graces more than one court docket,
how can Louis Fuck-the-Free open with such a bald-faced lie, 
unsupported by any data or argument whatsoever? His own 
agency, not to mention several "non-law-enforcement" agencies 
(is this the lawyer's catch in his assertion?) have been 
lobbying _vigorously_ and without letup for several years
now to "prevent the growing use of encryption." The whole
export control regime for encryption has as its sole purpose
to "prevent the growing use of encryption."

I'm all for a constitutional amendment that would put this 
kind of bald-faced lying by high public officials on the same 
footing as treason, with the same penalties.

> But encryption represents a serious public safety concern. 

It sure does! The lack of widely available, fully functional 
strong crypto is a national and individual weakness that 
allows control freak fucks like Louis to make a reach for 
the ultimate levers of control and cement us into the 
ultimate surveillance state, from which there will be no
return.

> We are open to any solution that recognizes that it is 
> the ability to collect electronic evidence that has 
> allowed us to prevent airliners from being bombed and 
> to put major drug dealers behind bars.

 Right! Like you prevented TWA 800, Lockerbee, and
the ValuJet eaten in midair by illegally transported live 
oxygen canisters? Just HOW MANY AIRLINERS HAVE YOU SAVED,
you lying Nazi fuck?

Don't talk to us about the drug dealers... the ones who 
wouldn't be able to earn a penny if it weren't for the 
War on Drugs in the first place. We already know that the
pharmaceutical market value of a dose of heroin is something
like 25 cents, and that the only reason those addicts are
breaking into our homes and killing us on the streets is
because the GOVERNMENT has made it illegal for them to 
obtain their sleepytime meds at reasonable prices that even
a minimum-wage burger flipper could afford if he wanted to
waste himself that way.

> Key escrow is one possible solution. 

No it isn't. It's not a solution to anything at all. It's 
the destruction of privacy through more heavy-handed tactics 
and intrusion into private affairs. It's the police state's
wet dream, second only to full, real time monitoring of 
everything and everything. One step at a time, though, eh,
lying Nazi fuck?

> There are others, and certainly a statutory scheme can 
> be devised that will all but eliminate any risk of abuse 
> by law enforcement. 

You must be taking some of those drugs your agents seize! If
there is one constant, one unchangeable feature of government
landscape, it is that NO POWER can be safeguarded against 
abuse, and that EVERY POWER will be abused, just some more
than others. This claim is an insult to the intelligence of
even the most retarded, obedient American. Your mother 
clearly didn't wash your mouth with a strong enough brand of
laundry soap to make an impression on your little proto-Nazi
mind.

We should really suspend the ENTIRE debate right now, pending
the prosecution and imprisonment of the thousands of FBI
personnel involved in past, DOCUMENTED violations of rights.
Before we even take you seriously I want to see the asses of
the SAs who have done "black bag jobs", who have killed and 
maimed men, women and children, who have instigated unlawful
acts by incompetents through agents provocateurs, AND their 
SACs, AND their authorizing DDs, etc., ALL LANGUISHING IN 
LEVEL 6 FACILITIES doing the the HARD TIME of multiple life 
terms they so richly deserve for having arrogantly and 
systematically violated their oaths of office and the laws 
of the land. Then and ONLY THEN can we "talk," you strutting, 
lying little Nazi fuck!

> But if we do not allow for court-ordered access, for the 
> first time in the history of this country a court order 
> for seizure of evidence will be an absolute nullity.

Utter Nazi rubbish! The truth is that if you _do_ get what 
you want, for the first time in the history of this country 
it will be unlawful or even impossible for Americans to secure 
their communications as they could in 1789 when the Constitution 
was ratified. It is _not_ the ability to protect communications 
and writings that is new -- it is the invasive technology and 
the windfall to you of communications and records being handled 
by third parties that is new. Your claim of being locked out by 
new technology not contemplated by the Constitution is false. 
What was not contemplated and now needs to be remedied is that 
conversations easily secured against eavesdroppers in 1789 
are now easily overheard, and communications easily secured 
in 1789 are now easily violated. THAT'S what needs to be
fixed, NOT your inability to continue and expand your
totalitarian invasion of the natural rights of Americans
and others.

> We want to work with industry on a real solution, 

More bullshit! You want what you want when you want it and
you have been vigorously campaigning for new and expanded
powers to every ear on Capitol Hill that would listen, even
conducting closed briefings to make your one-sided case out 
of the light of public scrutiny. Admit it -- you're a
thorough-going weasel, and proud of it!

> recognizing that those who acquire encryption over the 
> Internet or from abroad naively make assumptions about 
> the security it affords. 

Oh, PLEASE! You have the security of naive Internet users
at heart? Is that what we're supposed to believe? Do you
really think we just fell off the turnip truck? The very
encryption you fear most, strong public key encryption that
you can't break and won't be able to break within the 
predicted lifetime of the universe, is presently available
over the Internet, AND THAT IS PRECISELY WHAT YOU DON'T LIKE,
you lying Nazi fuck!

> We are not fighting encryption, 

HAVE YOU NO SHAME AT ALL, uttering bald-faced lies like that?

> but we know what will happen if technology cannot be made 
> to work for law enforcement as it works for criminals 
> and terrorists.    

We know, too: freedom will continue to have a chance. You 
need to take a deep breath and consider that many people now
understand the sham in which you are involved. More and more
people are wondering why you don't just nail the truly bad
guys the way they have been nailed for millenia -- by good,
conventional police work. Bad guys have been apprehended since
time immemorial without resort to data-mining the databases and
eavesdropping on all forms of communication. Now, just because
technology allows you means of invasion never contemplated by
the Constitution, suddenly you can't do your job without
them? Utter nonsense! Lying Nazi fuck nonsense!

Louis J. FREEH 
(Louis J. FUCK-THE-FREE)

Dir., Federal Bureau of Investigation
(Generalisimo, Federal Bureau of Absolute Control)

Washington, July 10,1998
(Disneyland-on-the-Potomac)

TruthIsAsPlainAsTheNoseOnYourLyingNaziFuckFaceMonger II





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Power & Prosperity 
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 19:16:49 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: UCE - I am a real Person sending you a real
Message-ID: <419.435989.92825289powergal@polbox.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I'm not here on the Internet to burden you with unsolicited advertising 
solicitations. If I've offended you in any way, I am sorry.  If you do not wish to 
receive any more information, then do not respond to this message and you 
won't hear from me again.  I do not re-use email addresses.  After they are 
used ONCE, they are deleted.


My point is brief.  

The reason I am writing to you is that I am overwhelmed with Leads.
I would like to find just a few quality people to work with who have 
the desire to make six-figure results so that I can help them get started.  
I will not sell to anyone, nor will I do any convincing, and neither will you.

If you would like more information, just say the words (words=GPG in the 
subject line of your return email) and I'll email a free, helpful file that will 
give you more information.

Sincerely, 
 
 Dobbin


 PS - Yes, I do read all your responses and I'll handle each one personally.

Note:  To comply with all Federal and State Laws, the following information is 
included. This message is sent by Dobbin Cashman (me) domiciled at 1064 
Bunn Hill Road in Vestal, NY. (800) 350-5426.  





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Jean-Francois Avon" 
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 20:28:03 -0700 (PDT)
To: "Jean-Claude Bouthillier" 
Subject: [humor] Fwd: Win98's README.1ST
Message-ID: <199807140342.XAA12447@cti06.citenet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


==================BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE==================
>Subject: Win98's README.1ST



Did you intend to upgrade to Win98?
If you do, here's a preview of the READ ME FIRST page


-------------------------------------------------------------------

Congratulations on your purchase of Windows 98 (c),
the latest version of the world's #1 computer operating
system from Microsoft.

A) Before using your new software, please take the time to read these
instructions carefully. Failure to do so may further limit the terms of the
limited warranty. Windows 98 (c) represents a significant
technological improvement over Microsoft's previous operating
system, Windows 95 (c).
You'll notice immediately that
  * "98" is a higher number than "95,"
  * a better than 3 percent increase.
But that's not all. Windows 98 (c) contains many features not found in
Windows 95 (c), or in any competing computer operating system, (if
there are any of course).

Among the improvements: faster storing and
retrieving of files (not in all models), enhanced "Caps Lock" and
back-space functionality, smoother handling, less knocking and
pinging, an easy-to-follow 720-page User's Guide, and rugged
weather-resistant shrink wrap around the box. Most important,
Windows 98 (c) offers superior compatibility with all existing
Microsoft products. We're betting that you'll never use another
company's software again.

Windows 98 (c) comes factory-loaded with the latest version of
Microsoft Explorer, the world's most popular Internet browser. And
despite what you may have heard from the U.S. Department of
Justice, Windows 98 (c) offers you the freedom to select the
Internet browser of your choice, whether it's the one produced by
the world's largest and most trusted software producer, or by a
smaller company that will either go out of business or become part
of the Microsoft family.

Configuring Windows 98 (c) to use a browser OTHER than Microsoft
Explorer is easy. Simply open the "Options" folder, click on the
"time bomb" icon, and select "Load Inferior Browser." A dialog box
will ask "Are you sure?" Click "yes." This question may be asked
several more times in different ways and in 12 different languages
; just keep clicking "yes." Eventually, the time-bomb icon will
enlarge to fill the entire screen, signifying that the browser is
being loaded. You'll know the browser is fully loaded when the fuse
on the time bomb "runs out" and the screen "explodes." If at any
time after installation you become disappointed with the slow speed
and frequent data loss associated with other browsers, simply tap
the space bar on your keyboard. Microsoft Explorer will automatically be
re-installed- permanently.

Windows 98 (c) also corrects, for the first time anywhere, the "Year
2000" computer problem. As you may know, most computers store
the current year as a two-digit number and, as a result, many will
mistake the year 2000 for 1900. Windows 98 (c) solves the
problem by storing the year as a four-digit number and, in theory,
you won't have to upgrade this part of the operating system until the
year 10000.

However, the extra memory required to record the year in four digits
has prompted a few minor changes in the software's internal
calendar. Henceforth, Saturday and Sunday will be stored as single
day, known as "Satsun," and the month of June will be replaced by
two 15-day months called "Bill" and "Melissa." Please also take the
time to complete the online registration form. It only takes a few
minutes and will help us identify the key software problems our
customers want addressed. Be assured that none of the
information you provide, whether it's your Social Security number,
bank records, fingerprints, retina scan or sexual history, will be
shared with any outside company not already designated as a
Microsoft DataShare partner.

We've done our best to make using Windows 98 (c) as trouble-free
as possible. We want to hear from you if you're having any
problems at all with you software. Simply call our toll-free Helpline
and follow the recorded instructions carefully. (The Helpline is open every
day but Satsun, and is closed for the entire month of Bill.)

If we don't hear from you, we'll assume your software is working
perfectly, and an electronic message to that effect will be forwarded
to the Justice Department. We'll also send, in your name, a letter to
the editor of your hometown newspaper, reminding him or her that
American consumers want software designed by companies that
are free to innovate, not by government bureaucrats.

Again, thanks for choosing Windows 98 (c).




===================END FORWARDED MESSAGE===================


Jean-Francois Avon, B.Sc. Physics, Montreal, Canada
  DePompadour, Société d'Importation Ltée
     Limoges fine porcelain and french crystal
  JFA Technologies, R&D physicists & engineers
     Instrumentation & control, LabView programming
PGP keys: http://bs.mit.edu:8001/pks-toplev.html
PGP ID:C58ADD0D:529645E8205A8A5E F87CC86FAEFEF891
PGP ID:5B51964D:152ACCBCD4A481B0 254011193237822C






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 05:06:45 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Jim Bell Request
Message-ID: <199807141206.IAA28181@camel8.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


A forwarded message from Jim Bell:

Jim is requesting that cpunks try to get the Oregon 
newspaper to write up another story on his case.

John Branton is the "crime reporter" for the Columbian 
newspaper (editors@columbian.com). Jim asks that people 
send Branton a note saying they would like to see a 
story on the issue of Jim's being spied on.  This reporter 
already knows what the allegations are, but Jim wants
to prod him into covering his story, because he thinks 
it's important enough for the public to know about it.

Jim also would like any reporters on the list who are 
interested in talking to him, to send him their phone 
number and he will give them a call.

BTW, the next hearing date is set for the 7/30/98.  In 
the meantime, he's hanging around shooting pool, reading 
magazines, etc.

[End Jim message]

----------

Jim's address:

    James Bell #26906086
    Federal Detention Center
    P.O. Box 68976
    Seattle WA 98168

----------

Latest court docket entries:


6/30/98  50  MINUTE ORDER by Judge Franklin D. Burgess  that the
             Probation Revocation hrg is rescheduled to 1:30 p.m. on
             7/10/98 for James Dalton Bell (cc: counsel, Judge) (car)
             [Entry date 06/30/98]

7/8/98   --  PROPOSED Supplemental Violations (car) [Entry date 07/08/98]

7/10/98  51  PROBATION PETITION/ORDER by Judge Franklin D. Burgess as to
             James Dalton Bell re: Supplemental Violations  (cc:
             counsel, Judge, USPO) (car) [Entry date 07/10/98]

[END OF DOCKET: 3:97cr5270-0]

----------

Documents on Jim Bell:

   http://jya.com/jdbfiles.htm






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: teezi62@nimbus.rz.uni-konstanz.de (Jorge Boback)
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 15:06:39 -0700 (PDT)
To: teezi62@nimbus.rz.uni-konstanz.de
Subject: Here's the password you wanted....Don't pass it on
Message-ID: <199807143027VAA7354@post.agri.ch>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


What's up Gary,

Here's the password. 

Don't, I repeat don't give it to anyone

Remember press enter once you get there.

USR:  harry
PWD: balls

CLICK HERE>> http://www.hpic.com/public-bin/redirect.cgi?file=dick&clickline=0&cookie=no_cookie 

Jorge





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: CTIA Daily News 
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 10:08:41 -0700 (PDT)
To: CTIA Daily News 
Subject: CTIA Daily News from WOW-COM - July 14, 1998
Message-ID: <199807141700.MAA32024@mailstrom.revnet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




=============================================
Welcome to today's edition of the CTIA Daily
News
from WOW-COM.  Please click on the icon /
attachment
for the most important news in wireless
communications today.

WIRELESS IT '98, The Next Generation in
Personal
Computing & Communications October
12-14,
Las Vegas, Nevada Call (202) 785-0081 for more
information!
=============================================

 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 14:18:19 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: NSA on Sat Crypto Device
Message-ID: <199807142118.RAA25583@camel7.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


This is a DoD fax of an NSA-brief on the Chinese satellite crypto device.
It was prepared for July 8 testimony by DoD's Franklin Miller before the 
Senate Subcommittee on International Security, Proliferation and Federal 
Affairs. Miller's testimony was cancelled but DoD has provided the one-
page brief to the media upon request.


JUL-14-1998 12:51   DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE PA       703 697 3501 p.02


                                                          JUL 8 1998


Question: What happened to the encryption device that was aboard the
failed INTELSAT launch in 1996?

Answer: The U.S. personnnel present searched the site for two days after 
the launch failure. Despite extremely hazardous conditions that made 
recovery very difficult, the U.S. personnel believed that they recovered 
all recoverable U.S. parts and components that survived the launch 
failure.

No identifiable parts or components associated with the Telemetry 
Tracking and Control Encryption devices [TT&C], and the circuit board on 
which it was mounted, were recovered. We have been advised by Loral that 
the devices were embedded on a tray mounted within the Command Processor 
Box  of the satellite. lf this is the case, it is highly unlikely that 
the devices survived the crash because of the crash impact and high 
temperatures produced by the burning rocket propellants. According to 
Loral, the Command Processor Box was located adjacent to the propellant 
tanks and U.S. personnel at the site recovered only 30% of the box.

The COMSEC circuit board consisted of a printed wiring board and forty
plus, off-the-shelf and semi-custom discrete small sca]e integrated 
circuit chips. The COMSEC board is somewhat large and relatively fragile 
(about 6x10 inches), with interconnecting "tracks" on the board which 
interconnect the many logic devices into the COMSEC algorithm. As such 
a whole circuit board, its whole composite set of pieces, and the whole 
set of logic chips need to be recovered to succeed in reengineering the 
design of the device. If Loral's assessment of the physical 
implementation of the two COMSEC devices aboard INTELSAT 708 and the 
extent of damage to the command processor from the crash, impact and 
fire are correct, NSA and DTSA believe that it is highly unlikely that 
these items could have been recovered in sufficient detail to reverse 
engineer.

In the unlikely event that the Chinese were able to recover all the 
items fully intact, it is important to note that the encryption board 
involved many embedded devices. Any loss of the chips and associated 
encryption algorithm would have have only minimal impact on national 
security because the INTELSAT 708 satellite was uniquely keyed.

[End fax]





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Cindy Cohn 
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 18:07:21 -0700 (PDT)
To: bernstein-announce@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199807150056.RAA09720@gw.quake.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hi all,

I've now had a chance to review the decision in the Junger case.  I think it
contains many flaws, but will just highlight a few here.  

The most striking thing about the opinion is how much the judge's willfully
ignored the undisputed factual record.   Plaintiffs submitted voluminous
declarations from programmers, computer science professors and others
confirming that they often communicate using source code.  The Declarants
included Professor Abelson of MIT, author of the key introductory textbook
of computer science, as well as Professor Appel from Princeton and several
prominent cryptographers and general computer scientists.  All of them
confirmed the need to read, write and share source code as part of their
work, and as part of the development of science.  They also testified to the
fact that many, many other people communicate using source code, and that
higher level languages are developed to allow humans to write, read and
develop each others ideas.  

The Judge does quote the Supreme Court ruling that speech must be protected
by the First Amendment unless it is  "so far removed from any exposition of
ideas, and from truth,  *science,* morality, and arts in general . . . "
 
Yet despite these clear facts and despite the Supreme Court's clear
inclusion of scientific speech as protected expression,  Judge Gwin states:  

 1.  "encryption source code may *occasionally* be expressive (p.12)
2.   that in the "overwhelming majority of circumstances" encryption source
code is exported to transfer functions, not to communicate ideas."  (p.13)
 3.  "For the broad majority of persons receipting such source code, the
value comes from the function" (p.13-14).
4.   "encryption source code is rarely expressive"  (p. 15).
5.  "source code is conduct that can occasionally have communicative
elements."  (p.16)
6.  "Source code is a set of instructions to a computer that is *commonly*
distributed for the wholly non-expressive purpose of controlling a
computer's operation."  (page 17)
7.   "encryption software is not typically expression"  (page 18)

There are similar statements of fact throughout the decision, none of which
contain citations to anything in the record to support them.  

So where is the evidence to support his conclusions?  The government
submitted no empirical studies of source code "exports"  from which one
could conclude how often source code is "expressive."  Certainly this is not
the kind of thing which can be judicially noticed.  At a minimum, the
declarations create a triable issue of material fact as to how often source
code is used to communicate ideas.  This alone should preclude summary
judgment.  

Also, I know of know authority which holds that the number of people who
communicate in a given language is the basis on which we decide whether that
communication is speech.  Judge Gwin certainly cited none, but his opinion
assumes that this is relevant.  

He also says that "certain software is inherently expressive" (page 13)
without stating what he thinks that kind of software is and how it differs
from encryption software.  The Junger team argued that the "functionality"
of encryption software, allowing privacy of speech, makes the software
subject to the First Amendment on its own, just as the regulations of
printing presses and newspaper racks violate the First Amendment even though
the item itself may not be speech.  The Judge ignored this argument
entirely.      

Once the judge has decided that source code is not *sufficiently*
expressive, he ignores the settled analysis for prior restraints in order to
avoid applying the tests.  The easiest mistake to see is his reliance on the
9th Circuit Roulette decision for his holding that prior restraint review
shouldn't apply.  Roulette was *not* a prior restraint case.  It considered
an ordinance which allowed the police to arrest citizens for sitting on the
sidewalks.  In Roulette, a person didn't have to apply for a license to sit
on the sidewalks, he or she simply did it.  The question of whether the act
was expressive or not would always be reviewed by a Judge, as part of the
criminal process.  In the case of cryptography,in contrast,  one of the key
issues has been the fact that the cryptography regulations do not allow for
a judge to review agency decisions denying or requiring a license.  Thus,
applying Roulette as the standard to judge whether prior restraint analysis
applies is just plain wrong.  

Having dispensed with prior restraint by relying on a non-prior restraint
case, the Court then considers overbreadth.   Again, he ignores the record
entirely.  He claims, again without any citation to the record,  that Junger
has failed to show that "the resulting injury to other academics is the very
same injury that Junger allegedly suffered."  

But Junger included Declarations from people who were *not* academics who
have been injured by the export restrictions.  He included declarations from
Mr. Liebman (concerning some O'Reilly software) and Mr. Behlendorf
(concerning the Apache server) demonstrating that even those whose software
contains no encryption capability whatsoever have been injured by the
encryption regulations.  The record contains plenty of evidence that people
other than Junger, attempting to do different kinds of things than he does,
have suffered different kinds of injury due to the regulations.   Similarly,
Judge Gwin states that the regulations are not vague, ignoring the record
evidence that many, many people do not understand them and have been chilled
as a result.  

Next, Judge Gwin finds content neutrality based upon the argument that
government is controlling the "functionality" of the software rather than
its content.  Acceptance of this phony distinction requires that a person
have no understanding of computer programming.  The content and the
functionality of a computer program are synonymous.  They have to be.  There
is no way to change or limit the functionality without also changing the
content of the source code.  To mandate key recovery is to mandate that
computer programs have different content than they would otherwise; its'
like saying that the government wants to control the "taste" of chocolate
cake rather than the recipe.  Change one, you must change the other.  

Judge Gwin also relies on the fact that the Government allows "export" of
software on paper, thus defining "functionality" as based upon the fact that
source code can be converted into object code which can be run.   But this
analysis also ignores the existence of scanners and typists.  Software on
paper isn't any less "functional" than software in electronic form.   It
simply requires one more, simple, step to make it functional.  In the case
of the single page of source code which is Snuffle, in the Bernstein case,
the difference cannot be more than ten minutes worth of typing or a few
minutes to scan and correct errors prior to compiling.  *This* is the
difference our national security rests upon?

Judge Gwin then applies intermediate scrutiny, quickly finding that the test
is met.  

In the end, Judge Gwin decided, despite the evidence, that source code isn't
often read by anyone and so shouldn't really deserve First Amendment
protection.  The rest of the analysis flows from there, with no regard for
the actual facts in the record.  The result is that we have a new category
of lesser protected expression, speech which is also "functional," without
any clear or understandable definition of the term "functional."  And all
those computer scientists and their settled methods of communicating with
each other apparently don't count when it comes to the First Amendment.

The larger ramifications of this holding, if it becomes law for the rest of
us, are frightening.  Taken to its extreme, this holding could be the
exception that swallows the rule of Reno v. ACLU.  If the fact that
something can "function" means it is not speech, every web page written in
HTML could be held not protected, since at some level each page is a
"functioning" computer program.  Certainly any web page or other electronic
publication which contains a Java applet is a "functioning" program. 

As I noted above, there are other criticisms which can be leveled as well.
These are simply a few that I've found so far.   

Cindy 
 






******************************
Cindy A. Cohn, Cindy@McGlashan.com
McGlashan & Sarrail, P.C.
177 Bovet Road, 6th Floor
San Mateo, CA 94402
(650) 341-2585 (tel)
(650) 341-1395 (fax)





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: webmaster@mountainkeep.com
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 20:11:01 -0700 (PDT)
To: Friend
Subject: Herbal Remedies
Message-ID: <199807150310.UAA27242@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Dear Internet Friends,

If you want to learn about how to provide your family with herbal remedies from the garden to the medicine 
cabinet, please visit our website at www.mountainkeep.com   Thank you.

This message complies with the proposed United States Federal requirements for commercial email bill, 
Section 301.  
For additional info see:
http://www.senate.gov/~murkowski/commercialemail/EMailAmendText.html

Mountainkeep Publishing
2510 N. 47th St. #204
Boulder, CO 80301
(303)545-5452

Per Section 301, Paragraph (a)(2)(C) of S. 1618,
further transmissions to you by the sender of this
email may be stopped at no cost to you by
sending a reply to this email address with theword "remove" in the subject line.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: remove5050@usa.net
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 20:19:35 -0700 (PDT)
To: remove5050@usa.net
Subject: Status
Message-ID: <265046_24589591>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



reply to
remove5050@usa.net


Please excuse this intrusion.

Your Name Has ALREADY BEEN DELETED from our database.

I would like to let you in on a good idea...

I NEVER THOUGHT I'D BE THE ONE TELLING YOU THIS....

I ACTUALLY READ & ACTED ON THIS PIECE OF E-MAIL,
AND THEN WENT TO EUROPE FOR THE HOLIDAYS, PAYING
FOR IT IN CASH!

My name is Matthew Forti ; I'm a 42-year-old father, husband, and
full time scientist.  As a rule, I delete all unsolicited "junk"
e-mail and use my account primarily for business.  I received what
I assumed was this same e-mail countless times and deleted it each time.


About two months ago I received it again and, because of the catchy
subject line, I finally read it. Afterwards, I thought, "OK, I give
in, I'm going to try this. I can certainly afford to invest $20 and,
on the other hand, there is nothing wrong with creating a little
excess cash." I promptly mailed four $5 bills and, after receiving the
reports paid a friend of mine a small fee to send out some e-mail
advertisements for me. After reading the reports, I also learned how
easy it is to bulk e-mail for free!

I was not prepared for the results.  Everyday for the last six weeks,
my P.O. box has been overflowing with $5 bills; many days the excess
fills up an extra mail bin and I've had to upgrade to the corporate-size

box!  I am stunned by all the cash that keeps rolling in!

I promise you, if you follow the directions in this e-mail and be
prepared to eventually set aside about an hour each day to follow
up (and count your money!), you will make at least as much money
as we did.  You don't need to be a whiz at the computer, but I'll
bet you already are. If you can open an envelope, remove the money,
and send an e-mail message, then you're on your way to the bank.
Take the time to read this so you'll understand how easy it is.
Believe me, it works!

GO FOR IT NOW!

Sincerely,

Matthew Forti
*       *       *       *       *       *       *       *       *
*       *       *

**************************************************
You are about to make up to $50,000 - In less than 90 days
Read the enclosed program...THEN READ IT AGAIN!
**************************************************

This is the letter that got my attention.  Read on and I'm sure
you will agree that this is a great plan!


Dear Friend,

The enclosed information is something I almost let slip through
my Fingers. Fortunately, sometime later I re-read everything and
gave some thought and study to it. Please do the same.  It's so
simple to do.

And you won't be left out in the cold to figure it all out yourself.
Look further down in this letter for the information you will
receive from JNC Marketing.  They give you the locations of the best
software
(FREE SOFTWARE) to send out large quantities of email.
(normally this kind of software is several hundred dollars)
They even give you easy to understand, proven, step by step
instructions for success with this program.  In fact, they helped
me get started and I'm so thankful.  It's hard to believe that this
is as simple as it is, but it really is SIMPLE.  You will even get
support from them to send out a mailing (if you need it).  You won't
get this kind of help from other programs of this nature.  It
makes all the difference in the world.
_____________________________________________________________

My name is Anne Bowman. I am 31-year-old graduate student
desperately trying to finish my degree and begin working in
my chosen field--that is, if I am lucky enough to find a job in
the crowded market.  Like most people in this day and age, it
is hard to make ends meet, and being a student does not help
the situation at all ( If I ever have to buy one more box of
macaroni and cheese I think I would have to scream).  I
returned to school after having worked for several years
with little potential for achieving what I had expected
out of life.  I figured if I returned to school and received my
Ph.D. there would be several opportunities for me out there
to achieve my goals.  After seeing my fellow graduate students
receive their degrees and, depressingly, not find respectable
positions in their chosen field I began to think, "Oh no not
again!"  Four extra years in school and an extra $20,000 in
student loans on top of the first $18,000, what will I do if the
same happens to me?"  I began to doubt my patience for the
long term investment in schooling, and decided enough was
enough, "Why can't I make real money now instead of waiting
to graduate with no guarantee of a lucrative return for all of my
efforts!"  I am writing to share my experience with other hopeful
students out there, as well as ANYONE looking for an opportunity
to take their financial situation into their own hands.  I hope you
will consider this opportunity seriously and that this will change
your life FOREVER!.., FINANCIALLY!!!  And once you get
started it takes so little of your time.


In mid October '97, I received this program. I didn't send for
it, or ask for it, they just got my name off a mailing list. I TOOK
THIS AS A SIGN!!!  After reading it several times, to make
sure I was reading it correctly, it made perfect sense.  Here was
a MONEY-MAKING PHENOMENON. I could invest as much
as I wanted to start (about as much as it costs for a pizza!),
without putting me further in debt. After I got a pencil and paper
and figured it out, I would at least get my money back. After
determining that the program is LEGAL and NOT A CHAIN
LETTER, I decided "I HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE".

Initially I sent 15,000 emails, (without any costs to me) only a
couple of hours of my time on-line. The great thing about email
is that I didn't need any money for printing to send out the
program, only the time to fulfill my orders.  There is a vast
on-line market available to everyone who owns a computer.
Following the advice of the person from whom I received this
letter, I am telling you like it is, and I hope it doesn't turn you
off, but I promised myself I would not "rip-off" anyone, no
matter how much money it cost me!  After you receive the
reports they explain everything to you.

In one week, I was starting to receive orders for REPORT #1.
By mid November, I had received 40 orders for REPORT #1.
When you read the GUARANTEE in the program you will
see that "YOU MUST RECEIVE 15 TO 20 ORDERS FOR
REPORT #1 WITHIN 2 WEEKS IF YOU DON'T SEND
OUT MORE PROGRAMS UNTIL YOU DO!" My first step
In making $50,000 in 20 to 90 days was done. By the beginning
of December, I had received 174 orders for REPORT #2. If you
go back to the GUARANTEE.  "YOU MUST RECEIVE 100 OR
MORE ORDERS FOR REPORT #2 WITHIN TWO WEEKS.
IF NOT SEND OUT MORE PROGRAMS UNTIL YOU DO.
ONCE YOU HAVE 100 ORDERS, THE REST IS EASY, RELAX,
YOU WILL MAKE YOUR $50,000 GOAL". Well, I had 174 orders
for REPORT #2, 74 more than I needed. So I sat back and relaxed.
By January 20th, of my emailing of 15,000, I received $54,000 with
more coming in ever day.  The great thing about this program
is you can begin the process over and over again without any limit
on potential income!

I paid off ALL my student loans, and together with everything
I have learned in school, I am now saving in order to open up my
own business related to my field as soon as I graduate. Please take
time to read the attached program. IT WILL CHANGE YOUR LIFE
FOREVER! Remember, it won't work if you don't try it.  This program
does work, but you must follow it EXACTLY!  Especially the rules
of not trying to place your name in a different place on the list. It
doesn't work, you'll lose out on a lot of money! REPORT #2 explains
this.  ALWAYS follow the guarantee, 15 to 20 orders of REPORT #1
and 100 or more orders for REPORT #2 and you will make $50,000
or more in 20 to 90 days. I AM LIVING PROOF THAT IT WORKS!!

If you choose not to participate in this program, I'm sorry, It really
is
a great opportunity with little cost or risk to you. If you choose to
participate, follow the program and you will be on your way to financial

security.

To my fellow graduate students out there, good luck to you and I
sympathize.  And to all other persons in financial trouble consider this

letter a sign and please take advantage of this opportunity.  YOU WON'T
BE DISAPPOINTED!

                                                            Sincerely,
                                                            Anne Bowman

The following testimonial was at the bottom of this letter but it was
too good to leave down there so I moved it up here.  It is exactly how
I felt at first and feel now.

"The first week after I started this program was torture.  I couldn't
wait to see if it was really going to work after I mailed out my first
batch of letters.  I chuckle every day now when I walk out of the
post office with my envelopes.  This is so easy, I still can't believe
it's happening!"
Don Masterson, Troy, NY


$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

>From here down is the instruction portion of this letter...


This is a LEGAL, LOW-COST, MONEYMAKING PHENOMENON.

PRINT this letter, read the directions, THEN GET STARTED TODAY!

You are about to embark on the most profitable and unique program
you may ever see.  Many times over, it has demonstrated and proven
its ability to generate large amounts of cash.  This program is showing
fantastic appeal with a huge and ever-growing on-line population
desirous of additional  income.

This is a legitimate, LEGAL, moneymaking opportunity.  It does not
require you to come in contact with people, do any hard work, and
best of all, you never have to leave the house, except to get the mail
and go to the bank!

This truly is that lucky break you've been waiting for!  Simply follow
the easy instructions in this letter, and your financial dreams will
come true! When followed correctly, this electronic, multi-level
marketing program works perfectly... 100% OF THE TIME!

Thousands of people have used this program to:
-  Raise capital to start their own business
-  Pay off debts
-  Buy homes, cars, etc.,
-  Even retire!

This is your chance, so read on and get started today!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OVERVIEW OF THIS EXTRAORDINARY ELECTRONIC
MULTI-LEVEL MARKETING PROGRAM
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Basically, this is what we do:

We send thousands of people a product for $5.00 that costs next to
nothing to produce and e-mail. As with all multi-level businesses, we
build our business by recruiting new partners and selling our products.
Every state in the U.S. allows you to recruit new multi-level business
online (via your computer).

The products in this program are a series of four business and financial

reports costing $5.00 each.  Each order you receive via "snail mail"
will
include:

  * $5.00 cash
  * The name and number of the report they are ordering
  * The e-mail address where you will e-mail them the report they
ordered.

To fill each order, you simply e-mail the product to the buyer. The
$5.00 is yours!
This is the EASIEST electronic multi-level marketing business anywhere!

FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS TO THE LETTER AND
BE PREPARED TO REAP THE STAGGERING BENEFITS!

******* I N S T R U C T I O N S *******

This is what you MUST do:

1.  Order all 4 reports shown on the list below (you can't sell them if
you
don't order them).

     *  For each report, send $5.00 CASH, the NAME & NUMBER OF THE
        REPORT YOU ARE ORDERING, YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS, and YOUR
        RETURN POSTAL ADDRESS (in case of a problem) to the person whose

        name appears on the list next to the report.

     *  When you place your order, make sure you order each of the four
        reports.  You will need all four reports so that you can save
them
        on your computer and resell them.

     *  Within a few days you will receive, via e-mail, each of the four

         reports.  Save them on your computer so they will be accessible

         for you to send to the 1,000's of people who will order them
from you.

2.  IMPORTANT-- DO NOT alter the names of the people who are listed
     next  to each report, or their sequence on the list, in any way
other
     than is instructed below in steps "a" through "d" or you will lose
out
     on the majority of your profits.  ONCE YOU UNDERSTAND THE WAY THIS
     WORKS, YOU WILL UNDERSTAND WHY IT DOESN'T WORK IF YOU CHANGE IT.
Remember,
     this method has been tested, and if you alter it, it will not work.

    a.  Look below for the listing of available reports.

    b.  After you've ordered the four reports, replace the name and
address
         under REPORT #1 with your name and address, moving the one that

         was there down to REPORT #2.

    c.  Move the name and address that was under REPORT #2 down to
         REPORT #3.

    d.  Move the name and address that was under REPORT #3 down to
         REPORT #4.

    e.  The name and address that was under REPORT #4 is removed from
         the list and has NO DOUBT collected their 50 grand.

Please make sure you copy everyone's name and address ACCURATELY!!!

3.  Take this entire letter, including the modified list of names, and
save
     it to your computer.  Make NO changes to the INSTRUCTION portion of

     this letter.

4.  Now you're ready to start an advertising campaign on the
     Internet!  Advertising on the Internet is very, very
     inexpensive, and there are HUNDREDS of FREE places to
     advertise, but email has, by far, proven itself to be the best
medium for
     this program.  And the emailers best friend is e-mail lists.
     You can buy these lists for under $20/20,000 addresses or you can
pay
     someone a minimal charge to take care of the mailing for you.  BE
SURE TO START
     YOUR AD CAMPAIGN IMMEDIATELY!  Each day that passes while you think
about
     it is a day without profit.

5.  For every $5.00 you receive, all you must do is e-mail them the
report
     they ordered.  THAT'S IT!  ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE
     ON ALL ORDERS!  This will guarantee that the e-mail THEY send out,
     with YOUR name and address on it, will be prompt because they can't

     advertise until they receive the report!

------------------------------------------
AVAILABLE REPORTS
------------------------------------------
***Order Each REPORT by NUMBER and NAME***

Notes:
-  ALWAYS SEND $5 CASH FOR EACH REPORT
-  ALWAYS SEND YOUR ORDER VIA FIRST CLASS MAIL
-  Make sure the cash is concealed by wrapping it in at least two sheets
of
paper
-  On one of those sheets of paper, include: (a) the number & name of
the
report you are ordering, (b) your e-mail address, and (c) your postal
address.  (using your printer is the best way to do this)
_________________________________________________________________
REPORT #1 "HOW TO MAKE $250,000 THROUGH MULTI-LEVEL SALES"

ORDER REPORT #1 FROM:

Stat Services, Inc.
PO Box 72
Long Green, MD 21092-9998
_________________________________________________________________
REPORT #2 "MAJOR CORPORATIONS AND MULTI-LEVEL SALES"

ORDER REPORT #2 FROM:

JNC Marketing of Maryland
P.O. Box 25070
Baltimore, MD 21224-5707

*****IMPORTANT NOTE*****
Our success is due to sending out emails to prospective participants, we
are happy to help you get started by giving you the location of several
free programs that will allow you to send out large quantities of e-mail
easily. Also, we can help you email to huge lists. We will email the
information to you the same day we receive your report request.  Just
jot down "help please" on the report request that you send with your
$5.  You will receive our real email address when we send you this
report and you can contact us for any questions you may have.   (program
participants, you may leave this offer with us as we are moved down the
list.  We will honor it for the duration of the program. Just move it
down, with the name, to the next position when you send out your first
mailings).
_________________________________________________________________
REPORT #3 "SOURCES FOR THE BEST MAILING LISTS"

ORDER REPORT #3 FROM:

Capital H Ventures
P.O. Box 8029
Jacksonville, FL 32239
_________________________________________________________________
REPORT #4 "EVALUATING MULTI-LEVEL SALES PLANS"

ORDER REPORT #4 FROM:

Abot Marketing
PO BOX 2523
Chapel Hill, NC 27515-2523

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

HERE'S HOW THIS AMAZING PLAN WILL MAKE YOU $MONEY$
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Let's say you decide to start small just to see how well it works.
Assume
your goal is to get 10 people to participate on your first level.
(Placing
a lot of FREE ads on the Internet will EASILY get a larger response.)
Also
assume that everyone else in YOUR ORGANIZATION gets ONLY 10 down line
members. Follow this example to achieve the STAGGERING results below.

1st level--your 10 members with$5...................................$50
2nd level--10 members from those 10 ($5 x 100)..................$500
3rd level--10 members from those 100 ($5 x 1,000)..........$5,000
4th level--10 members from those 1,000 ($5 x 10,000)...$50,000
THIS TOTALS----------->$55,550

Remember friends, this assumes that the people who participate only
recruit 10 people each.  Think for a moment what would happen if they
got 20 people to participate!  Most people get 100's of participants!
THINK ABOUT IT!

Your cost to participate in this is practically nothing (surely you can
afford $20 for a chance to make $ 55,000).  You obviously already have
an Internet connection and e-mail is FREE!!!  REPORT# 3 shows you the
most productive methods for bulk e-mailing and purchasing e-mail lists.
Some list & bulk e-mail vendors even work on trade!

About 50,000 new people get online every month!

*******TIPS FOR SUCCESS*******

*  TREAT THIS AS YOUR BUSINESS!  Be prompt, professional, and follow
     the directions accurately.

*  Send for the four reports IMMEDIATELY so you will have them when
    the orders start coming in because:

    When you receive a $5 order, you MUST send out the requested
    product/report to comply with the U.S.  Postal & Lottery Laws, Title

    18, Sections 1302 and 1341 or Title 18, Section 3005 in the U.S.
Code,
    also Code of Federal Regs. Vol. 16, Sections 255 and 436, which
    state that "a product or service must be exchanged for money
received."

*  ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON THE ORDERS YOU RECEIVE.

*  Be patient and persistent with this program.  If you follow the
    instructions exactly, the results WILL undoubtedly be SUCCESSFUL!

*  ABOVE ALL, HAVE FAITH IN YOURSELF AND KNOW YOU WILL SUCCEED!

*******YOUR SUCCESS GUIDELINE*******

Follow these guidelines to guarantee your success:
I CAN'T STRESS ENOUGH HOW IMPORTANT THIS NEXT SECTION IS!!!!

If you don't receive 10 to 20 orders for REPORT #1 within two weeks,
continue advertising until you do.  Then, a couple of weeks later you
should receive at least 100 orders for REPORT #2.  If you don't,
continue
advertising until you do.  Once you have received 100 or more orders
for REPORT #2, YOU CAN RELAX, because the system is already working
for you, and the cash will continue to roll in!

THIS IS IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER:

Every time your name is moved down on the list, you are placed in front
of
a DIFFERENT report.  You can KEEP TRACK of your PROGRESS by watching
which report people are ordering from you.  If you want to generate more
income,
send another batch of e-mails and start the whole process again!  There
is
no limit to the income you will generate from this business!

NOTE:  If you need help with starting a business, registering a business

name, how income tax is handled, etc., contact your local office of the
Small
Business Administration (a Federal agency) for free help and answers to
questions.  Also, the Internal Revenue Service offers free help via
telephone
and free seminars about business taxes.

*******T  E  S  T  I  M  O  N  I  A  L  S*******

The first week after I started this program was torture.  I couldn't
wait
to see if it was really going to work after I mailed out my first batch
of letters.  I chuckle every day now when I walk out of the post office
with my envelopes.  This is so easy, I still can't believe it's
happening!
Don Masterson, Troy, NY


This program does work, but you must follow it EXACTLY!  Especially
the rule of not trying to place your name in a different position, it
won't
work and you'll lose a lot of potential income.  I'm living proof that
it works.
It really is a great opportunity to make relatively easy money, with
little
cost to you.  If you do choose to participate, follow the program
exactly,
and you'll be on your way to financial security.
Sean McLaughlin, Jackson, MS

My name is Frank.  My wife, Doris, and I live in Bel-Air, MD.  I am a
cost accountant with a major U.S. Corporation and I make pretty good
money. When I received the program I grumbled to Doris about receiving
"junk mail." I made fun of the whole thing, spouting my knowledge of the

population and percentages involved.  I "knew" it wouldn't work.  Doris
totally ignored my supposed intelligence and jumped in with both feet.
I made merciless fun of her, and was ready to lay the old "I told you
so"
on her when the thing didn't work...  Well, the laugh was on me!  Within

two weeks she had received over 50 responses.  Within 45 days she had
received over $147,200 in $5 bills!  I was shocked!  I was sure that I
had
it all figured and that it wouldn't work. I AM a believer now.  I have
joined
Doris in her "hobby."   I did have seven more years until retirement,
but I
think of the "rat race" and it's not for me.  We owe it all to MLM.
Frank T., Bel-Air, MD

I just want to pass along my best wishes and encouragement to you.  Any
doubts you have will vanish when your first orders come in.  I even
checked
with the U.S. Post Office to verify that the plan was legal.  It
definitely is!
IT WORKS!!!
Paul Johnson, Raleigh, NC

The main reason for this letter is to convince you that this system is
honest, lawful, extremely profitable, and is a way to get a large amount
of
money in a short time.  I was approached several times before I checked
this out.  I joined just to see what one could expect in return for the
minimal
effort and money required.  To my astonishment, I received $36,470.00 in

the first 14 weeks, with money still coming in.
Sincerely yours, Phillip A. Brown, Esq.

Not being the gambling type, it took me several weeks to make up my
mind to participate in this plan.  But conservative that I am, I decided
that
the initial investment was so little that there was just no way that I
wouldn't
get enough orders to at least get my money back.  Boy, was I surprised
when
I found my medium-size post office box crammed with orders!  For awhile,
it
got so overloaded that I had to start picking up my mail at the window.
I'll
make more money this year than any 10 years of my life before.  The nice
thing
about this deal is that it doesn't matter where in the U.S. the people
live. There
simply isn't a better investment with a faster return.
Mary Rockland, Lansing, MI

I had received this program before.  I deleted it, but later I wondered
if I shouldn't have given it a try.  Of course, I had no idea who to
contact
to get another copy, so I had to wait until I was e-mailed another
program.
11 months passed then it came...I didn't delete this one!...I made more
than
$41,000 on the first try!!
Wilburn, Muncie, IN

This is my third time to participate in this plan.  We have quit our
jobs,
and will soon buy a home on the beach and live off the interest on our
money.  The only way on earth that this plan will work for you is if you
do
it.  For your sake, and for your family's sake don't pass up this golden

opportunity.  Good luck and happy spending!
Charles Fairchild, Spokane, WA

When you have made your money and want to travel, find great cruises,
tours and airline tickets at our favorite on-line travel site at
http://www.NeTrip.com. This program works. IT WILL CHANGE YOUR LIFE FOR
THE BETTER AND GIVE YOU FINANCIAL FREEDOM. It has given our marriage the
freedom to travel the world.
Steve and Eileen, Chicago, IL

ORDER YOUR REPORTS TODAY AND GET
STARTED ON YOUR ROAD TO
FINANCIAL FREEDOM!!!







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC 
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 20:32:47 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <009C92EF.3F4221C0.5@west.cscwc.pima.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


~         BUMGIRL          ~
Entertainment for NastyGirls             July 1998 * $7.09
____________________________

Trojan Horse Sucking
Anniversary Issue

BumGirl Interview:
Wham! Bam! Thank ou Ma'am!
T.C. BUTTSLAM
{AKA-T.C. May, FifteenInchNails, Human Gus-Peter Sr., 
     AConsistentNetPersonaToBeNamedLater, CypherPunks
     Philosopher King, The Last True CypherPunk, 
     The Only Real CypherPunk, ad infinitum}

VIAGRA AND SALTPETER
Jim Belushi's Untold Story

Mick 
Jagger
GIVES GREAT LIP!

_____________________________________________________________

			DEAR BUMGIRL

BUMMED BO
  "I was devastated to learn that the June, 1998, issue of
  BumBoy Magazine was nothing more than a fraudulent ruse
  by the Electronic Forgery Foundation.
  "Were the terrible things said about Tim C. May in the
  BumBoy Interview with C-J VAN DAMNNED actually true?"
~Eric Cordial, T.O.T.O.

  {ou will find out in this month's BumGirl Interview,
   as we bend you over and 'give it to you'--straight 
   from the Horse's Ass. - BG}

		     THE BUMGIRL ADVISOR

THE DOORS OF DEPTH PERCEPTION
  "I gagged Linda Lovelace. What do I do with the body?"
~ William GagHer III,
  Dawn Long Juan of the CypherPunks Disturbed Male LISP

  {Wake up! (and smell Jennifer Flowers...) - BG}


			 MOVIES

TERMINATING RESISTOR 3
TR3 completes the Magic Circle of Eunuchs with a bizzare, if
somewhat predictable twist, as ACyborgToBeNamedLater begins
to materialize on the SilverSceenOfVirtualReality in the form
of TheRealGuy...naked, as usual.
It turns out that the Author, sent back in VirtualRealityTime
by John Parker, in order to ensure the safety of Captain John
Parker, thus preserving the course of history taken by the
American Revolution, got drunker than a skunk on cheap Scotch,
and ended up embroiled in the Legendary CypherPunks Moderation 
Revolution/Anti-Censorship CounterRevolution of 1997, instead.
The Author, again predictably, spills Scotch on his Digital
Implant during his journey through time, frying the Radio
Shack circuitry that resulted in HimOrHer being dubbed, "The
Six Million Peso ManOrWoman ($42.00/U.S.)" and becomes a
Taoist AuthorBot working for both the Farces of Light and
the Farces of Darkness, thus saving the movie producers the
expense of paying an extra actor in this low-budget, B-grade
Film BlancNoire.
The movie quickly degenerates into a pornographic monstrosity,
with Sarah Parker, unsure as to who the father of John Parker
actually is, since the little glue-sniffing prick was conceived
during an alcoholic binge, fucks everyone in sight, to make 
sure the little bastard gets conceived. The Author, obsessive-
compulsive tit-man that he is, invariably throws his hands over
her boobs at the slightest sign of danger, claiming, "John's a
growing boy...he needs his milk."
Investigating the Church of the SubGenius, the AuthorBot soon
discovers that the movie is being produced by a group of non-
union UnderGroundReptilianNazis, as a result of overhearing
several of the producer's phone conversations, which they
always end by saying, "Let's do Earth."
The AuthorBot develops an obsession with Little Timmy Mayonnaise
after becoming sexually excited by the Evil Dr. Vulis's ASCII
Art Spams, begins wearing a CoonSkin hat made from the hide of
Medgar Evans and drunkenly mumbling, "Remember Los Alamos...
Chop, Chop!" at every opportunity.
The saving grace of the movie is the soundtrack, courtesy of
Al Fowl And The Snakes, a Tucson ReptilianChickenBot Band
of ill-repute, featuring their Number 1 With a HollowPoint-
TeflonTipped-CopKillerBullet song, "If ou Can't Kill The
Authority Figure ou Love/Hate, Kill The One In our Cross-
Hairs."

BUMGIRL RATING - One Long, Hard Prick Up our Butt

__________________________________________________________

BumGirl Interview: T.C. BUTTSLAM

  A LindaLoveLaceInDepthInterview with one of the original
  Flounders ("I may smell like fish, but don't call me 
  chicken.") of the CypherPunks Disturbed Male LISP, Timothy 
  C. "No! It doesn't stand for 'cocksucker'!" May.
  After checking the Andy WhoreHole Mailing List archives, 
  and finding that it was  who originally 
  posted the concept that, in the future, every CypherPunk 
  would have 15" of fame, BumGirl EditWhores decided to change
  the cover of the July, 1998, edition to feature a picture
  of a variety of current CypherPunks wearing only athletic-
  support cups with long, long, long bar-codes on them. 

  {ANastyBumGirlToBeReamedLater, caught in a cross-fire on
  Mayonnaise Mountain between Timothy C. May, the Philosopher
  Marksman of the CypherPunks Disturbed Male LISP, and LEA's
  who were badly outmanned and outgunned by the Cult Of One
  CypherPunk who owns a variety of weaponry registered in
  the names of a plethora of CypherPunks Consistent Net
  Personas, bent over and stuck her head in the sand, hoping
  that if she took one in the butt, it would be a long, hard
  one, Teflon-tipped, in order to penetrate her new Kevlar
  panties.
  The BumGirl interview took place during lulls in the action,
  when LEA agents carried off their dead and wounded, while
  LittleBigTimmy and Dust'em Hoffman argued over their Pretty
  Lousy Privacy CryptoPhones as to how many dead IRS agents
  it takes to spell, "I *told* you Jim Bell is a CypherPunk!"}


BumGirl: our Tim C. May CypherPunks Consistent Net Persona
has such long and well-documented history of raising hell with
the sides of the Bleeding Edge of InterNet Freedom and Privacy
Technology (TCM) that it is hard to know where to begin.

TCM: Let's talk about the Author, instead.

BumGirl: Shit! Is this interview just another piece of mindless
trash from the Electronic Forgery Foundation?

TCM: ou don't understand...*I* am the Author!

BumGirl: Well, bend me over and pretend we're married! Are 
you serious?

TCM: Nuke DC!
But seriously...Nuke DC!

BumGirl: If you are really the Author, as you claim, then why
aren't you trying to peek up my skirt, to see if I am wearing
panties?

TCM: That's Toto's schtick...pardon the pun...uuhhh...if it
*was* one...
Where was I? Hey! There's my shoes...
Anyway...
That's how the reader can tell which chapters of 'The True
Story of the InterNet' manuscripts are authentic, and which
ones are forgeries...by the perverted diatribes about peeking
up women's skirts that form an integral part of the forgeries
of that fucking asshole interloper on my...I mean...'the'...
CypherPunks list.
Besides, I read the above intro to this BumGirl interview, so
I know you're wearing Kevlar panties. That makes me *hot*...

BumGirl: Don't! Stop! Just because I have my head in the sand,
like your typical AOL'er, doesn't mean I can't tell what you're
trying to do back there...
Why did you stop? I'm Catholic, so I *have* to tell you to stop.
Don't! Stop! Don't stop! Don't stop!

TCM: Hey! That's not a diaphragm...that's a *badge*
Jesus H. 'Fucking' Christ! ou're Janet ReamHole...
DogFacedLyingMurderingNaziCunt!
No wonder you've got your head in the sand...

  [There was a loud popping sound on the audio tape that 
   the BumGirl EditWhores received from some anonymous
   coward, via snailmail with no return address on the
   envelope.
   The freelance BumGirl ReportWhore sent to do the
   interview mysteriously failed to return, causing us
   to wonder if we'd been duped, when the head of the
   DOBJ suddenly became 'unavailable for comment' at 
   the same time our ReportWhore disappeared. A few days
   later, however, the head of the DOBJ was spotted by
   the MainDream press as she exited a secret underground
   lavoratory suspected to be involved in cloning-related
   technology.
   Once an anonymous email arrived from Mark Hedges, who 
   really should learn to use learn remailers properly if 
   he's going to claim to be a CypherPunk (hint: delete 
   your digital signature before sending the fucking thing,
   dude...), BumGirl EditWhores couldn't help but notice 
   that, when she removed her glasses, she *did* look a lot 
   like Buddy...]


BUMGIRL DISCLAIMER:
There is absolutely no truth to the slanderous rumors being
spread by the Church of SubScientology (an affiliate of the
Norman Church--more commonly referred to as 'The Church of 
Jesus H. 'Fucking' Christ of Labor Day Chincs'--headquartered
in SaltLick City, China, and long rumored to be the secret 
lair of the Cult of One Dead Cow, Army of DogEaters Division),
turned over the violently abused and sexually violated carcass
of our missing BumGirl ReportWhore (dropped off at our offices 
by a barefoot, toothless old fart wearing a T-shirt with three 
lines of Perl code on the front) to local Ferral Bureau42 of 
Instigation foreskinsic axespurts.
The truth is, after our own exspurts performed DNA/RSA tests
on the body, to determine the exact nature of the bizarre
acts of cryptophilia performed upon her after her death, we
simply dumped her body next to several others down an old
mining shaft at a popular shooting range outside of Tucson,
where, unbeknownst to BumGirl, FBI agents were busy going
through the pockets of a witness to the Vincent Price/Phiszt
Foster parking-lot-car-drowning, having inadvertantly disposed
of the body without removing identifying signs such as large
diamond rings, expensive watches, folding money and loose 
change.
As the two MotorCycleMommaDykesOnSpikes, hired by BumGirl to
dispose of the body, fled the scene, they overheard one of
the FBI agents, who had been trained by Lieutenant Calley not 
to waste perfectly good pussy, exclaim, upon lifting our dead
ReportWhore's skirt, "Jesus H. 'Fucking' Christ, it's Jimmy 
FuckingGodamnn Hoffa!" Apparently, another FBI agent, after
performing a street-sniff test on our dead ReportWhore's 
dick, contended that it was not Hoffa, but J. Edgar Hoover,
with another agent confirming his suspicions by giving the
dick a long, involved taste-test to preclude any possibility
of the dick being a Cirle Of Eunuchs transplant meant to
disguise the body as that of the recently missing caterer
to the Bay Area CypherPunks physical meetings.

The MotorCycleMommaDykesOnSpikes told BumGirl EditWhores,
as we paid them the agreed-upon fee of 'as many rolls of
quarters as you can carry without using your hands', "We
couldn't pass up the opportunity to commit oral sodomy on
your dead ReportWhore before dumping HimOrHer down the
mind shaft, and, well...she tasted a lot like Buddy..."

Although it *is* true that BumGirl hired the current head
of the DOBJ to finish the BumGirl interview with TCM, (not
to be confused with Turner Classic Movies), we told HimOrHer
that the best approach would be to show up unannounced on
Mayonnaise Mountain, flash HisOrHer badge, and announce 
that she was just taking him downtown, 'to answer a few 
questions."
BumGirl EditWhores do not expect the T.C. BUTTSLAM interview
to be completed, but we are making plans to include a photo-
special in our next edition, titled, "Beware the Ides of May"
complete with never-before-seen scenes of oft-rumored but
never confirmed Secret CypherPunks Social Activities known
only to 34th Degree Masons and Greek immigrant HodCarriers.

      Also In The August, 1998, Edition Of BumGirl:
Army of Bitch Hostage Disposal - "Smoke 'em if you got 'em!"
Cult of One Dead Cow Mission Statement & Barbeque Recipe
CypherPunks Activity Project #327 - "Test (No Reply)"
BumGirl Interview: Buddy
"I should have suspected something when the SexCriminal had
 the WhiteHouse VeteranAryan, Attila T. Hun, pull *all* of 
 my teeth..."
CenterFold: Blanc Weber 
 "WhiteLipstick Power in MicroSoft Village"
 [WAS: MicroHard Victim of Friendly MakeOver--Corporate 
  Assettes Down 2" As BadBillyG Emerges From Closet Dressed
  For SuckSession, With Micro$not DC NaziSpinLobbyists 
  Standing Firmly  Behind Him]
 [NEVERWAS: CypherPunks Come Out Of Closet -- EmBareAssed
  Gay Activists Force Them Back In...]




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC 
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 20:33:39 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: BumGirl - SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS!!!
Message-ID: <009C92EF.5F68B900.7@west.cscwc.pima.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


~         BUMGIRL          ~
Entertainment for NastyGirls             July 1998 * $7.09
____________________________

Trojan Horse Sucking
Anniversary Issue

BumGirl Interview:
Wham! Bam! Thank ou Ma'am!
T.C. BUTTSLAM
{AKA-T.C. May, FifteenInchNails, Human Gus-Peter Sr., 
     AConsistentNetPersonaToBeNamedLater, CypherPunks
     Philosopher King, The Last True CypherPunk, 
     The Only Real CypherPunk, ad infinitum}

VIAGRA AND SALTPETER
Jim Belushi's Untold Story

Mick 
Jagger
GIVES GREAT LIP!

_____________________________________________________________

			DEAR BUMGIRL

BUMMED BO
  "I was devastated to learn that the June, 1998, issue of
  BumBoy Magazine was nothing more than a fraudulent ruse
  by the Electronic Forgery Foundation.
  "Were the terrible things said about Tim C. May in the
  BumBoy Interview with C-J VAN DAMNNED actually true?"
~Eric Cordial, T.O.T.O.

  {ou will find out in this month's BumGirl Interview,
   as we bend you over and 'give it to you'--straight 
   from the Horse's Ass. - BG}

		     THE BUMGIRL ADVISOR

THE DOORS OF DEPTH PERCEPTION
  "I gagged Linda Lovelace. What do I do with the body?"
~ William GagHer III,
  Dawn Long Juan of the CypherPunks Disturbed Male LISP

  {Wake up! (and smell Jennifer Flowers...) - BG}


			 MOVIES

TERMINATING RESISTOR 3
TR3 completes the Magic Circle of Eunuchs with a bizzare, if
somewhat predictable twist, as ACyborgToBeNamedLater begins
to materialize on the SilverSceenOfVirtualReality in the form
of TheRealGuy...naked, as usual.
It turns out that the Author, sent back in VirtualRealityTime
by John Parker, in order to ensure the safety of Captain John
Parker, thus preserving the course of history taken by the
American Revolution, got drunker than a skunk on cheap Scotch,
and ended up embroiled in the Legendary CypherPunks Moderation 
Revolution/Anti-Censorship CounterRevolution of 1997, instead.
The Author, again predictably, spills Scotch on his Digital
Implant during his journey through time, frying the Radio
Shack circuitry that resulted in HimOrHer being dubbed, "The
Six Million Peso ManOrWoman ($42.00/U.S.)" and becomes a
Taoist AuthorBot working for both the Farces of Light and
the Farces of Darkness, thus saving the movie producers the
expense of paying an extra actor in this low-budget, B-grade
Film BlancNoire.
The movie quickly degenerates into a pornographic monstrosity,
with Sarah Parker, unsure as to who the father of John Parker
actually is, since the little glue-sniffing prick was conceived
during an alcoholic binge, fucks everyone in sight, to make 
sure the little bastard gets conceived. The Author, obsessive-
compulsive tit-man that he is, invariably throws his hands over
her boobs at the slightest sign of danger, claiming, "John's a
growing boy...he needs his milk."
Investigating the Church of the SubGenius, the AuthorBot soon
discovers that the movie is being produced by a group of non-
union UnderGroundReptilianNazis, as a result of overhearing
several of the producer's phone conversations, which they
always end by saying, "Let's do Earth."
The AuthorBot develops an obsession with Little Timmy Mayonnaise
after becoming sexually excited by the Evil Dr. Vulis's ASCII
Art Spams, begins wearing a CoonSkin hat made from the hide of
Medgar Evans and drunkenly mumbling, "Remember Los Alamos...
Chop, Chop!" at every opportunity.
The saving grace of the movie is the soundtrack, courtesy of
Al Fowl And The Snakes, a Tucson ReptilianChickenBot Band
of ill-repute, featuring their Number 1 With a HollowPoint-
TeflonTipped-CopKillerBullet song, "If ou Can't Kill The
Authority Figure ou Love/Hate, Kill The One In our Cross-
Hairs."

BUMGIRL RATING - One Long, Hard Prick Up our Butt

__________________________________________________________

BumGirl Interview: T.C. BUTTSLAM

  A LindaLoveLaceInDepthInterview with one of the original
  Flounders ("I may smell like fish, but don't call me 
  chicken.") of the CypherPunks Disturbed Male LISP, Timothy 
  C. "No! It doesn't stand for 'cocksucker'!" May.
  After checking the Andy WhoreHole Mailing List archives, 
  and finding that it was  who originally 
  posted the concept that, in the future, every CypherPunk 
  would have 15" of fame, BumGirl EditWhores decided to change
  the cover of the July, 1998, edition to feature a picture
  of a variety of current CypherPunks wearing only athletic-
  support cups with long, long, long bar-codes on them. 

  {ANastyBumGirlToBeReamedLater, caught in a cross-fire on
  Mayonnaise Mountain between Timothy C. May, the Philosopher
  Marksman of the CypherPunks Disturbed Male LISP, and LEA's
  who were badly outmanned and outgunned by the Cult Of One
  CypherPunk who owns a variety of weaponry registered in
  the names of a plethora of CypherPunks Consistent Net
  Personas, bent over and stuck her head in the sand, hoping
  that if she took one in the butt, it would be a long, hard
  one, Teflon-tipped, in order to penetrate her new Kevlar
  panties.
  The BumGirl interview took place during lulls in the action,
  when LEA agents carried off their dead and wounded, while
  LittleBigTimmy and Dust'em Hoffman argued over their Pretty
  Lousy Privacy CryptoPhones as to how many dead IRS agents
  it takes to spell, "I *told* you Jim Bell is a CypherPunk!"}


BumGirl: our Tim C. May CypherPunks Consistent Net Persona
has such long and well-documented history of raising hell with
the sides of the Bleeding Edge of InterNet Freedom and Privacy
Technology (TCM) that it is hard to know where to begin.

TCM: Let's talk about the Author, instead.

BumGirl: Shit! Is this interview just another piece of mindless
trash from the Electronic Forgery Foundation?

TCM: ou don't understand...*I* am the Author!

BumGirl: Well, bend me over and pretend we're married! Are 
you serious?

TCM: Nuke DC!
But seriously...Nuke DC!

BumGirl: If you are really the Author, as you claim, then why
aren't you trying to peek up my skirt, to see if I am wearing
panties?

TCM: That's Toto's schtick...pardon the pun...uuhhh...if it
*was* one...
Where was I? Hey! There's my shoes...
Anyway...
That's how the reader can tell which chapters of 'The True
Story of the InterNet' manuscripts are authentic, and which
ones are forgeries...by the perverted diatribes about peeking
up women's skirts that form an integral part of the forgeries
of that fucking asshole interloper on my...I mean...'the'...
CypherPunks list.
Besides, I read the above intro to this BumGirl interview, so
I know you're wearing Kevlar panties. That makes me *hot*...

BumGirl: Don't! Stop! Just because I have my head in the sand,
like your typical AOL'er, doesn't mean I can't tell what you're
trying to do back there...
Why did you stop? I'm Catholic, so I *have* to tell you to stop.
Don't! Stop! Don't stop! Don't stop!

TCM: Hey! That's not a diaphragm...that's a *badge*
Jesus H. 'Fucking' Christ! ou're Janet ReamHole...
DogFacedLyingMurderingNaziCunt!
No wonder you've got your head in the sand...

  [There was a loud popping sound on the audio tape that 
   the BumGirl EditWhores received from some anonymous
   coward, via snailmail with no return address on the
   envelope.
   The freelance BumGirl ReportWhore sent to do the
   interview mysteriously failed to return, causing us
   to wonder if we'd been duped, when the head of the
   DOBJ suddenly became 'unavailable for comment' at 
   the same time our ReportWhore disappeared. A few days
   later, however, the head of the DOBJ was spotted by
   the MainDream press as she exited a secret underground
   lavoratory suspected to be involved in cloning-related
   technology.
   Once an anonymous email arrived from Mark Hedges, who 
   really should learn to use learn remailers properly if 
   he's going to claim to be a CypherPunk (hint: delete 
   your digital signature before sending the fucking thing,
   dude...), BumGirl EditWhores couldn't help but notice 
   that, when she removed her glasses, she *did* look a lot 
   like Buddy...]


BUMGIRL DISCLAIMER:
There is absolutely no truth to the slanderous rumors being
spread by the Church of SubScientology (an affiliate of the
Norman Church--more commonly referred to as 'The Church of 
Jesus H. 'Fucking' Christ of Labor Day Chincs'--headquartered
in SaltLick City, China, and long rumored to be the secret 
lair of the Cult of One Dead Cow, Army of DogEaters Division),
turned over the violently abused and sexually violated carcass
of our missing BumGirl ReportWhore (dropped off at our offices 
by a barefoot, toothless old fart wearing a T-shirt with three 
lines of Perl code on the front) to local Ferral Bureau42 of 
Instigation foreskinsic axespurts.
The truth is, after our own exspurts performed DNA/RSA tests
on the body, to determine the exact nature of the bizarre
acts of cryptophilia performed upon her after her death, we
simply dumped her body next to several others down an old
mining shaft at a popular shooting range outside of Tucson,
where, unbeknownst to BumGirl, FBI agents were busy going
through the pockets of a witness to the Vincent Price/Phiszt
Foster parking-lot-car-drowning, having inadvertantly disposed
of the body without removing identifying signs such as large
diamond rings, expensive watches, folding money and loose 
change.
As the two MotorCycleMommaDykesOnSpikes, hired by BumGirl to
dispose of the body, fled the scene, they overheard one of
the FBI agents, who had been trained by Lieutenant Calley not 
to waste perfectly good pussy, exclaim, upon lifting our dead
ReportWhore's skirt, "Jesus H. 'Fucking' Christ, it's Jimmy 
FuckingGodamnn Hoffa!" Apparently, another FBI agent, after
performing a street-sniff test on our dead ReportWhore's 
dick, contended that it was not Hoffa, but J. Edgar Hoover,
with another agent confirming his suspicions by giving the
dick a long, involved taste-test to preclude any possibility
of the dick being a Cirle Of Eunuchs transplant meant to
disguise the body as that of the recently missing caterer
to the Bay Area CypherPunks physical meetings.

The MotorCycleMommaDykesOnSpikes told BumGirl EditWhores,
as we paid them the agreed-upon fee of 'as many rolls of
quarters as you can carry without using your hands', "We
couldn't pass up the opportunity to commit oral sodomy on
your dead ReportWhore before dumping HimOrHer down the
mind shaft, and, well...she tasted a lot like Buddy..."

Although it *is* true that BumGirl hired the current head
of the DOBJ to finish the BumGirl interview with TCM, (not
to be confused with Turner Classic Movies), we told HimOrHer
that the best approach would be to show up unannounced on
Mayonnaise Mountain, flash HisOrHer badge, and announce 
that she was just taking him downtown, 'to answer a few 
questions."
BumGirl EditWhores do not expect the T.C. BUTTSLAM interview
to be completed, but we are making plans to include a photo-
special in our next edition, titled, "Beware the Ides of May"
complete with never-before-seen scenes of oft-rumored but
never confirmed Secret CypherPunks Social Activities known
only to 34th Degree Masons and Greek immigrant HodCarriers.

      Also In The August, 1998, Edition Of BumGirl:
Army of Bitch Hostage Disposal - "Smoke 'em if you got 'em!"
Cult of One Dead Cow Mission Statement & Barbeque Recipe
CypherPunks Activity Project #327 - "Test (No Reply)"
BumGirl Interview: Buddy
"I should have suspected something when the SexCriminal had
 the WhiteHouse VeteranAryan, Attila T. Hun, pull *all* of 
 my teeth..."
CenterFold: Blanc Weber 
 "WhiteLipstick Power in MicroSoft Village"
 [WAS: MicroHard Victim of Friendly MakeOver--Corporate 
  Assettes Down 2" As BadBillyG Emerges From Closet Dressed
  For SuckSession, With Micro$not DC NaziSpinLobbyists 
  Standing Firmly  Behind Him]
 [NEVERWAS: CypherPunks Come Out Of Closet -- EmBareAssed
  Gay Activists Force Them Back In...]




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 14633260@msn.com
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 21:34:32 -0700 (PDT)
To: OOOXXXI@uunet.uu.net
Subject: Make $1000's Weekly ! --- First Check Next Week !
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




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following link:
 
Click here to go to global remove site if you want your address removed from
mailing 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED/EUREKA! 
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 18:48:27 -0700 (PDT)
To: All Eureka/Stuffed Subscribers: ;
Subject: Can't keep it DOWN/Man gets breasts by mistake
Message-ID: <19980714234348.22245.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/html

Click for STUFFED: Tuesday July 14 1998


Click here for STUFFED, the new daily
 tabloid news, humor and babes newspaper from Eureka!

This is a combined text/html email. If your email client can
display html web pages  you probably won't see this text but
should see the front cover of today's issue above, which you
should  click on to read.  If you cannot see the cover, your
email client either cannot display html or its' options have
been set to  ignore html images.  In which case,  please ...
Click here to read today's! --> http://stuffed.net/98/7/14/

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 16:44:27 -0700 (PDT)
To: declan@well.com
Subject: Re: FC: Why not to have "Privacy Commissioners"
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <19980715000720.2548.qmail@hades.rpini.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


> Declan, These articles (unfortunately in German) are excellent
> examples of the true purpose of EU-style "Privacy
> Commissioners". Their purpose of course being to provide a whitewash
> to privacy violating activities by the government.

> Anyone want to translate 'em?

Here's a very quick translation. I loved that bit where AltaVista
translated "crackle" as "kneeling asterisk", anyway I hope this is
more readable than those miracles of machine translation.


SonntagsZeitung Online, July 12, 1998:

The movement profiles do exist

A confidential report by the data protection commissioner unveils:
Swisscom collects the complete Natel cell phone data every three hours

BY NIKLAUS RAMSEYER AND DENIS VON BURG

BERNE - a secret report by data protection commissioner Odilo Guntern
proves: Swisscom locates all powered-on Natel phones in Switzerland
with an accuracy of 100 meters every three hours and stores these data
for seven days.

Things are not as bad as all that, it's all legal, and there's no
problem whatsoever, the Swiss federal data protection commissioner
Odilo Guntern appeased the public last Monday. Swisscom AG apparantly
has "the possibility of locating every powered-on Natel at any time",
he admitted. That however only within the so-called Location Areas
comprising of 50 kilometers each - and certainly not down to the 2,500
a few kilometers small radio cells in the country "as claimed by the
SonntagsZeitung", Guntern said.

What the public did not learn: Gunterns lean three-page paper is only
the tip of the iceberg. Hidden behind it there is a 30 pages long
secret report that Guntern delivered only to "the parties involved",
as he calls it. "Involved" are Swisscom, Leuenberger's
(communications) and Koller's (justice and police) departments and the
parliament's revisions delegation.

Gunterns confidential report not only contains the crucial information
to the Natel issue. It partly contradicts the public remarks and to a
large extent confirms the SonntagsZeitung article of 28 December
1997. In particular Guntern concealed that the 800,000 Natel users in
Switzerland can not only "be located", but are subject to a fully
automatted Periodic Location Updating (PLU). PLU means: Every active
Natel will announce itself to the closest antenna every three hours,
then Swisscom will register its location.

Each Natel owner can verify that himself: It is sufficient to put the
switched-on mobile telephone next to a transistor radio. It then will
emit a clearly audible galloping crackle.

Movement data in some cases are stored for many weeks

The location information covers not only "one of only 30 location
areas" in the country, as Guntern wanted to make believe, it descends
down to "radio cell level". In cities it has a precision of a few 100
meters - in open rural areas still a precision of max. 10
kilometers. At least that is what experts from a leading Natel company
assure. Thus the quite precise Natel location is registered every
three hours. Worse yet: Swisscom stores the cell phones' corresponding
"movement data" for seven days - in some cases even for weeks and
months.

SVP member of parliament Bernhard Seiler, who is president of the
parliament's GPK delegation, confirms these facts to the
SonntagsZeitung. Data Protection commissioner Odilo Guntern too
admits: "The subject PLU is discussed in detail in my report." He will
not talk about "technical details" however.

It is quick to calculate. Eight location reports from 800,000 cell
phones per day, stored for one week: Swisscom permanently has more
that 40 million data available on where and how the 800,000 Natels are
moving through the country. They only serve for making connections, is
said officially. But whoever has access to this information can
immediately print out a "movement profile" and learn where exactly the
Natel (and thus, its owner) has been during the past seven
days. Guntern: "That is not impossible." Using radiogoniometics (see
graphics) Swisscom can even locate each Natel to an exactness of 50
meters and tap the conversations.

That also applies to the controversial Natel D Easy: "we have movement
data and operational data for these devices as well", Odilo Guntern
assures. That explains why the Conferedate Justice and Police
Department and Federal Attorney General Carla Del Ponte demand that
buyers of such devices should be registered systematically. If
necessary the police would like to know whom the movement profile of a
given Natels belongs to.

And why did the Guntern report remain secret? The "parties involved"
blame each other for the secretiveness. Guntern: "I didn't even ask
them if they would like to publish the report, and decided myself that
it was not public."

The controlling authorities at the Swiss parliament are not going to
accept that: "We were of the opinion that the entire Guntern report
would be presented in public", says the SP deputy Werner Carobbio from
Tessin, who also is a member of the GPK delegation. "We will bring up
the issue of "movement profiles of Natel users" for deepened
discussion", he promises.

---------------------------------------------------------------

Les Temps Online, July 7, 1998:

COMMUNICATION

TELECOMS. Yesterday the federal data protection commissioner presented his
annual report

Odilo Guntern: "Natel owners must be able to remain anonymous"

By Gabriel Sigrist

In Switzerland, every citizen can walk into a store and acquire a
smard part to be inserted into a portable telephone for 120
francs. Swisscom's system Natel D Easy does not require any
subscription and thus the user can remain anonymous. This anonymity
disturbs the Attorney General of the Confederation, Carla Del Ponte,
who on several occasions set her face against a system "used by all
the criminals". According to the department of public prosecution, the
new ordinance on telecommunications imposed identification of Natel D
easy users beginning January 1st. The federal data protection
commissioner's report completely contradicts this assertion. "There is
no legal base for keeping records of Natel easy customers", Odilo
Guntern concludes in his annual report. The data protection
commissioner goes even further: "In our society, protection of the
individual requires the possibility to talk on the phone without being
recorded in files, he stated towards Les Temps. Record the purchasers
of "easy" cards does not make sense because the criminals use other
means to remain anonymous, such as foreign cards but also call-back
services or simply phone booths." In the neighbour countries however
the purchasers of such cards must declare their identity. "It is
because the laws are different, explains Odilo Guntern. In
Switzerland, identification is obligatory only when there is a
long-term customer provider relation, which is not the case with
pre-paid cards." The card easy is thus legally comparable to a CFF
multicourse subscription or a phone card to use in booths. Goods which
can be acquired anonymously.

However the debate is not closed: "In our opinion the legal base is
sufficient to impose registration of the users, explains Jürg Blaser,
spokesman of the department of public prosecution. It is essential for
the security of our country to be able to identify the holders of
portable telephones." The federal Office of communications (Ofcom)
will decide. According to Odilo Guntern, it currently remains
"perfectly legal" to acquire a card easy without giving your
name. Swisscom however encourages the purchasers to identify
themselves: the operator offers a small gift to those who reveal their
personal data.

The comissioner also occupied himself with in the possibilities of
tracing mobile telephones. According to his report, Swisscom can
locate a simply powered-on portable in a relatively large zone, but
not to the cell (a circle of ten kilometers). There too, opinions
diverge.

According to Christian Masson, enthusiastic activist of the freedom of
circulation, the GSM system used by Swisscom's Natel stores the
precise localization of the devices every three hours, for maintenance
purposes. Odilo Guntern does not mention such a process in his
report. According to Swisscom, the users' positions are erased
during their movement.

The report also puts emphasis on customer fidelity cards such as the
M-Cumulus by Migros. "Any holder of such a card must be informed of
the various discounts of which he can profit, as well as of the data
processing relating to it", indicates the report.

On the Internet:

The full report of the federal data protection commissionser on
www.edsb.ch

The site of Mr. Masson on www.iimel.com/interception/mobile_trace.htm




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: optinnow@latinmail.com
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 21:39:53 -0700 (PDT)
To: anyone@opportunistic.com
Subject: Fast Growing Home Based Business...
Message-ID: <199807150441.NAA07224@age-ns.agesystem.co.jp>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


This message complies with the proposed United States Federal
requirements for commercial e-mail bill, Section 301. For additional
information see:

http://www.senate.gov/~murkowski/commercialemail/EMailAmendText.html

Required Sender Information
Richard Eastburn
8535 Tanglewood Square, Suite 5108
Chagrin Falls, OH 44023-6401
1-440-564-2084

To:   Savvy Network Marketer
RE:  NEW FAST GROWING HOME BUSINESS
From:  Richard Eastburn

This is an advertisement for a Home Business.  We hope you will find the
 information we provide useful in achieving your financial, personal,
and family goals.  If we have mailed this to you in error, please click
remove below.  You are on our list because you emailed me or I read a
classified ad of yours.  Thank you for your consideration

Unbelievable Growth In This Company Expected:     Now. . .Future

Get in on the early stage of a new dynamic business started in April
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        CALL:           1-440-564-2084
                                                    or
        WRITE:          Financial Independence, Suite 5108
                               8535 Tanglewood Square
                               Chagrin Falls, OH 44023-6401

Thank you. . . . .Richard Eastburn

>>> Per Section 301, Paragraph (a) (2) (C) of S. 1618,  <<<
>>> further transmissions to you by the sender of this  <<<
>>> email may be stopped at no cost to you by sending a <<<
>>> reply to this email address with the word "Remove"  <<<
>>> in the subject line. Thank you for your time <<<







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 18:55:41 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Stan & Tim
Message-ID: <19980715015501.29920.qmail@nsm.htp.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Hints that an anonymous poster is Tim may be red herrings. Given Stan's recent "research" into Xian conspiracy,
he may have other enemies than Tim...
[cypherpunk issue: how do you tell that anonymous posts aren't really anonymous?]

That said, I'm surprised at the number of "SPANK" emails directed at Stan. (Especially since they're from
anonymous accounts which he just said he has killfiled. Duh!)

I find some of his posts amusing, some edifying, some boring, but mostly not "clueless", unlike the following
cascade which I've paraphrased slightly:

some nobody said:
> another nobody said:
>> yet another nobody said:
>>> still more nobody said:
>>>> I think Stan is clueless
>>> Me Too.
>> Me Too!
> Me Too!!!




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "HELMY Enterprises, Inc." 
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 05:18:21 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Hi
Message-ID: <199807150518420530.012FA568@server03.option.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


>From HELMY Enterprises, Inc.

Dear Webmaster,

Offer daily updated 'Headline News' (and more) and look like one of the big boys!

To learn more please visit us at:

http://www.helmy.com/dc/index.html





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 21:00:00 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Message From Jim Bell
Message-ID: <199807150400.GAA00984@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Jim would like to thank those of you who have sent him
hidden files, as he requested.
However, he would appreciate it if you clueless fucks
would send the hidden files in *cakes*, not in floppy
disks.
[I told him it was a mistake to post to the Cypherpunks
AOL Distributed Node.]

Nobody Juno, eh?





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: CTIA Daily News 
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 09:48:43 -0700 (PDT)
To: CTIA Daily News 
Subject: CTIA Daily News from WOW-COM - July 15, 1998
Message-ID: <199807151630.LAA20849@mailstrom.revnet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




=============================================
Welcome to today's edition of the CTIA Daily
News
from WOW-COM.  Please click on the icon /
attachment
for the most important news in wireless
communications today.

WIRELESS IT '98, The Next Generation in
Personal
Computing & Communications October
12-14,
Las Vegas, Nevada Call (202) 785-0081 for more
information!
=============================================
 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Charlie_Kaufman@iris.com
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 11:14:46 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: GAK 4 -- For whom the Doorbell tolls
Message-ID: <85256642.0064AF8F.00@arista.iris.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


GAK4 is technically inaccurate but very good metaphor by which to consider
this proposal. I believe this is a minor skirmish in the war between civil
libertarians and Big Brother with industry playing the role of arms
merchant. It is not Government Access to Keys, it is Government Access to
Encrypted Data, which for everyones purposes is the same thing.

In answer to the question: "Should Cisco and friends be allowed to export
this technology?", of course they should. People should be allowed to
export whatever they want. Even if you're Big Brother, this proposal
enables all the same capabilities as GAK, so there is no reason to oppose
it.

In answer to the question: "Is this a 'compromise' that addresses the
issues of civil libertarians?", not a bit. The devil is in the details, of
course, in issues of whether the government can ask the encryption points
for copies of the data in real time, in an unaudited fashion, and/or with
what kind of "trusted third party" intermediaries. But these questions are
exactly akin to the details to be worked out with GAK and self-escrow.

In answer to the question: "Is there anything at all different between this
proposal and GAK?", the answer is some, and the differences might be
relevant to some. This proposal is a little better than GAK for law
enforcement because it would be easier to use and they tend to be
technically unsophisticated. It is a little worse than GAK for the NSA
because the extra data flows mean that it is harder to conduct surveillance
in a totally undetectable way. It favors some vendors over others because
it favors those who want to encrypt at firewalls over those who want to
encrypt end-to-end. It might slow overall progress in network security
because end-to-end encryption is technically superior (though harder to
deploy) and universal firewall to firewall encryption might reduce the
demand for it.

In answer to the question: "Would approval of this proposal be a good or a
bad thing?", the answer is ambiguous for the civil libertarian side. Any
time a new thing is allowed to be exported, it increases the flexibility of
vendors in crafting solutions and is likely to increase overall security.
On the other hand, anything which makes continuation of export controls
less in-your-face-painful will decrease pressure to repeal them and
therefore may in the long run decrease overall security. And anything which
makes it easier to make systems secure against all attackers other than Big
Brother brings closer the disasterous day when non-GAK crypto can be
outlawed.

If you're Big Brother, approval seems to be uniformly a good thing. It
garners political points among the unsophisticated as being willing to make
"technical compromises". It costs nothing in terms of access. And it may
bring closer the glorious day when non-GAK crypto can be outlawed.

     --Charlie Kaufman






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED/EUREKA! 
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 12:17:18 -0700 (PDT)
To: All Eureka/Stuffed Subscribers: ;
Subject: Could the world turn lesbian?/Men's privates enlarging
Message-ID: <19980715161601.28080.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/html

Click for STUFFED: Wednesday July 15 1998


Click here for STUFFED, the new daily
 tabloid news, humor and babes newspaper from Eureka!

This is a combined text/html email. If your email client can
display html web pages  you probably won't see this text but
should see the front cover of today's issue above, which you
should  click on to read.  If you cannot see the cover, your
email client either cannot display html or its' options have
been set to  ignore html images.  In which case,  please ...
Click here to read today's! --> http://stuffed.net/98/7/15/

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 14:41:58 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: NYT Crypto OpEd
Message-ID: <199807152141.RAA24473@camel7.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


The NYT has a fairly good OpEd on encryption today,
written by a novelist, who makes a good case for 
the citizen's need for the privacy protection, now that
there are a zillion ways computers pry into private
affairs.

   http://www.nytimes.com

For those outside the US: NYT today began its free 
worldwide online service, so the whole world can log 
on to its prying computers. (Non-USes heretofore 
had to pay for privacy loss.) It claims to have 4 million 
daily online consumers and is happy to run an advertiser 
drivern operation to suck in millions more around the 
planet.

Take note, Slate.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Global Web Builders 
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 01:45:14 -0700 (PDT)
To: (Recipient list suppressed)
Subject: Aboriginal voting and the 1967 Referendum
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980715075812.00734c6c@gwb.com.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Dear One Nation supporter in NSW

I would draw your attention to the following press release by Pauline Hanson
today:

Aboriginal voting and the 1967 Referendum 

It is clear Pauline Hanson is often misrepresented by the press and the
recent headlines headlines that suggest she questioned Aboriginal
Australian's rights to vote is yet another example of selective reporting.
Is this because of the search for what will be the most inflammatory or is
it just that some members of the press pick out of context what they believe
will do the most damage to Pauline Hanson? 

"I have not and would not question the right to vote of any Australian
citizen. What I question is whether Australians would have thought twice
about their vote in the 1967 referendum if they had known their attempt to
bring about equality was going to cause the pendulum to go the other way. 

"The main point of the 1967 referendum was the change of section 51 of the
constitution that allowed the government to make special laws with respect
to Aborigines. It is from this that successive governments have created race
based policies such as Abstudy and 1.5% loans for Aboriginals starting
businesses. 

"Aboriginal Australians like all Australians should and do have the right to
vote but no one should be treated differently on the basis of race - all
Australians should be treated equally and the same. I am quite certain that
if Australians had understood
where the 1967 referendum would lead, many would have voted differently. 

"These special laws based on race have led to reverse discrimination and the
rorting of taxpayers money without helping the Aborigines in most need. We
must assist Aborigines, but as Australians in need, not on the basis of
race. We must not make
laws that set Australians apart and are open to abuse by those who pretend
to look after the Aboriginal people. 

"It is often reported that I want to take benefits from Aboriginal people,
that is not correct and never was correct. It is true many Aboriginal people
are seriously disadvantaged but they do not have a monopoly on being
disadvantaged and should not
be singled out on the basis of race. Everyone should be assisted on the
basis of need." 

Statement issued by Pauline Hanson MP, member for Oxley 

-----------

GWB



Scott Balson





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Cyberdog 
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 15:17:32 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Whitehouse Bastards want my name named.
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Blumenthal Discovery requests both the Email subscriber list to
Drudge Report AND contributor list to Drudge Legal Defense
Fund...






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anton Sherwood 
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 21:12:04 -0700 (PDT)
To: sflp-announce@tanith.skylee.com
Subject: your papers please
Message-ID: <35AD7D5B.31E5@jps.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: message/rfc822


To: silent-tristero@world.std.com
Subject: DOT ID card info
From: t byfield 
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 18:53:22 -0400
Reply-To: t byfield 
Sender: silent-tristero-approval@world.std.com


From: "ScanThisNews" 
To: "Scan This News Recipients List" 
Subject: [FP] DoT National ID Objection Letters - Format and Subjects
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 11:07:37 -0500
Reply-To: owner-scan@efga.org
X-Web-Site: http://www.efga.org/
X-Mail-List-Info: http://efga.org/about/maillist/
X-SCAN: http://www.networkusa.org/fingerprint.shtml

======================================================================
SCAN THIS NEWS
7/9/98

Included below is the address and letter format information for objecting
to the DoT proposed standard driver's license regulation. If implemented
as presently written, the Department of Transportation (DoT) regulation
will result in a National Identification Document (NID) system in the
United States. Once in place, no one will be allowed to travel, open bank
accounts, obtain health care, get a job or purchase firearms without first
presenting the proper government documents.

Under the Administrative Procedures Act, the public is allowed to
submit written objections during the 30 day comment period. Comments
must be submitted in writing. The notice of proposed rule making did
not recognize other forms of comments such as phone calls or email
submissions.

After the comment period deadline, the agency must consider all comments
and must provide a statement supporting their decision to override public
objections.

DEADLINE: Comments must be received by August 3, 1998.

PAGE LIMIT: The page limit is 15 pages, however additional pages of relevant
supporting material may be included.

NOTE: The agency requests but does not require that two copies be sent to
the Docket Management address provided below.

NOTICE: The NHTSA also mailed copies of the proposed rule to all Highway
Safety officials and to the motor vehicle administrators of each State.
They too will be submitting comments.

PUBLIC VIEWING: Copies of all documents will be placed in Docket No.
NHTSA-98-3945; in Docket Management, Room PL-401, Nassif Building, 400
Seventh Street, SW, Washington, DC 20590. (Docket hours are Monday-Friday,
10 a.m. to 5 p.m., excluding Federal holidays.)

Also provided at the bottom of this page are some suggestions for
arguments which may be used in objecting to the proposed rule. These
arguments will hopefully stimulate further thought.

Objections do not have to raise legal issues, but they should be concisely
written and clearly state the nature of each objection.

This information will also be posted on the NetworkUSA "Fingerprint"
web page: 


             [LETTER FORMAT]

---------------[CUT HERE]------------------

[YOUR NAME]
[YOUR ADDRESS

[DATE, 1998]

Docket Management, Room PL-401
National Highway Traffic Safety Administration
Nassif Building
400 Seventh Street, S.W.
Washington, D.C. 20590

Re:   Docket No. NHTSA-98-3945
      DOCID:fr17jn98-28
      23 CFR Part 1331: Proposed Rule - State-Issued Driver's Licenses
                        and Comparable Identification Documents

Dear Sirs,

In the Federal Register of June 17, 1998 (Volume 63, Number 116, pages 33219
through 33225), your agency proposed certain regulations pursuant to the
Omnibus Consolidated Appropriations Act of 1997, P.L. 104-208, 110 Stat.
3009, and specifically $656 thereof, 110 Stat. 3009-716, which will be
codified in 23 C.F.R. Part 1331; further, comments from the public were
invited regarding these proposed regulations. My objections to the proposed
rule, and suggestions for modification, are as follows:


                            [BODY OF LETTER]
                            [BODY OF LETTER]
                            [BODY OF LETTER]
                            [BODY OF LETTER]


I wish to be informed of any proposed amendments to these rules or their
adoption.


Sincerely,

[YOUR SIGNATURE]
[YOUR NAME]


---------------[CUT HERE]------------------

Additional information about the regulation can be found at:
http://www.networkusa.org/fingerprint/page1b/fp-dot-id-scan-notice.html

-------------------------------------------

Some examples of reasons for objecting to the proposed rule:

[version date 7/7/98]
[Please send any corrections to ]

UNCONTESTED FACTS:

An unconstitutional law is void from the date of its enactment.

An unconstitutional law cannot serve as the basis for an agency
regulation, and an agency may not knowingly adopt an unconstitutional
rule or regulation.


CONSTITUTIONAL OBJECTIONS:

   o First Amendment Religious Objections:

     OBJECTION:
     Certain religious faiths hold that followers are not to be
     numbered. This rule will abridge the right of practitioners
     of these traditional religions in the free exercise thereof.

     ARGUMENT:
     The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution prohibits Congress from
     making any law which prohibits, impedes, or interferes with the free
     exercise of religion.

     The proposed rule will result in all states mandatorily requiring
     submission of Social Security numbers as a condition to being
     issued driver's licenses. Anyone who is opposed to using SSNs for
     identification purposes due to religious beliefs, will be denied a
     driver's license. The result will be that practitioners of any faith
     which includes a teaching against being numbered will be denied the
     right to drive if they exercise their religious belief.

     PREMISE FOR OBJECTION:
     The Holy Bible establishes by example the principle that Christians
     are not to be numbered. King David wanted to "know the number of the
     People" under his authority (2 Samuel 24:2). And, Satan caused David
     to number all Israel (1 Chronicles 21:1). God's Word further states
     that David's command to number Israel "was evil in the sight of God"
     (1 Chronicles 21:7). Because of the People's acquiescence to the
     king's enumeration plan, God sent a plague UPON THE PEOPLE
     (1 Chronicles 21:14).

     The Bible warns of a government system which will require everyone to
     be numbered -- contrary to God's will. Regarding this system the Bible
     states:

        "And he causeth all, the small and the great, and the rich and the
        poor, and the free and the bond, that there be given them a mark on
        their right hand, or upon their forehead;
        "and that no man should be able to buy or to sell, save he that hath
        the mark, (even) the name of the beast or the number of his name."
        (Rev. 13:16-17)

     But believers are warned not to participate in this numbering
     system:

        "And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a great
        voice, If any man worshippeth the beast and his image, and
        receiveth a mark on his forehead, or upon his hand,
        "he also shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is
        prepared unmixed in the cup of his anger; and he shall be
        tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy
        angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
        "and the smoke of their torment goeth up for ever and ever;
        and they have no rest day and night, they that worship the beast
        and his image, and whoso receiveth the mark of his name."
        (Rev. 14:9-11).

     According to Daniel, this "beast" is a "king," which in our
     modern-day world is a government system.
     (Daniel 7:17-23, Rev. 19:19).

     CONCLUSION:
     The proposed rule must make exceptions for believers who have a
     sincerely held religious objection to using numbers for universal
     identification.


   o Fourth Amendment Protection:

     OBJECTION:
     The proposed rule will result in individuals being subjected to
     unreasonable detention, investigation, and questioning, i.e.,
     searches and seizures.

     ARGUMENT:
     The United States Constitution protects all individuals in the
     security of their personal papers and effects against all unreasonable
     searches and seizures; and that no exception shall be made to this
     prohibition unless a sworn affidavit is presented upon probable
     cause and then only after a subsequent Warrant has been issued
     by a court of competent jurisdiction.

     PREMISE FOR OBJECTION:
     In implementation, under the proposed rule every individual will
     be subjected to scrutiny of their personal affairs. They will be
     detained while verification of their social security number is
     confirmed. The act of demanding proof of a social security number
     card constitutes an unreasonable search and seizure of a person's
     papers and effects.

     CONCLUSION:
     The rule may not impose any condition where information will be
     mandated or the submission of personal information is required
     except when done in accordance with the Fourth Amendment to the
     United States Constitution. The rule must be changed to preserve
     this constitutional protection.


   o Constitutional Right to Travel.

     OBJECTION:
     The rule, as presently written, will unlawfully abridge citizens'
     right to travel.

     ARGUMENT:
     Americans have a constitutional right to travel the roads of
     their respective state which is an integral component of any
     American's pursuit of happiness. This rule will have the effect
     of state citizens being denied the right to drive on state roads
     simply for failing to comply with the consequential requirements
     of a federal regulation. The requirement that all drivers must
     have SSNs constitutes a new condition precedent to obtaining a
     driverbs license, yet possession of a SSN has no bearing upon
     the ability to drive a car. This requirement thus is an
     unconstitutional abridgement of every citizen's right to travel.

     PREMISE FOR OBJECTION:
     Every citizen has a constitutional right to work for a living; see
     State v. Polakowbs Realty Experts, Inc., 243 Ala. 441, 10 So.2d 461,
     462 (1942). But beyond this constitutional right, they further have
     the constitutional right to travel which is protected by the United
     States Constitution; see Crandall v. Nevada, 73 U.S. (6 Wall.) 35,
     49 (1868)("We are all citizens of the United States, and as members
     of the same community must have the right to pass and repass through
     every part of it without interruption, as freely as in our own
     states"); Kent v. Dulles, 357 U.S. 116, 125, 78 S.Ct. 1113 (1958)
     ("The right to travel is a part of the Nlibertyb of which the citizen
     cannot be deprived without the due process of law under the Fifth
     Amendment"); Shapiro v. Thompson, 394 U.S. 618, 629, 89 S.Ct. 1322
     (1969) ("This Court long ago recognized that the nature of our
     Federal Union and our constitutional concepts of personal liberty
     unite to require that all citizens be free to travel throughout the
     length and breadth of our land uninhibited by statutes, rules, or
     regulations which unreasonably burden or restrict this movement");
     and Dunn v. Blumstein, 405 U.S. 330, 339, 92 S.Ct. 995 (1972)("[S]ince
     the right to travel was a constitutionally protected right, Nany
     classification which serves to penalize the exercise of that right,
     unless shown to be necessary to promote a compelling governmental
     interest, is unconstitutionalb"). See also Schachtman v. Dulles, 225
     F.2d 938,941 (D.C.Cir. 1955)("The right to travel, to go from place to
     place as the means of transportation permit, is a natural right subject
     to the rights of others and to reasonable regulation under law");
     Bergman v. United States, 565 F.Supp. 1353, 1397 (W.D. Mich. 1983)
     ("The right to travel is a basic, fundamental right under the
     Constitution, its origins premised upon a variety of constitutional
     provisions"); and Lee v. China Airlines, Ltd., 669 F.Supp. 979, 982
     (C.D.Cal. 1987)("[T]he right to travel interstate is fundamental").

     This right to travel is also a constitutional right embodied within
     the several states' constitutions.

     CONCLUSION:
     The new rules should be amended so as to eliminate the SSN
     requirement for driverbs licenses issued to domestic Americans so as
     to assure that no domestic American will be denied their right to
     travel the roads of their state simply for the lack of a SSN.


   o Supreme Court Decisions.

     OBJECTION:
     The rule, in implementation, will violate the fundamental legal
     principle of dual sovereignty by compelling the states to implement
     a federal regulatory scheme. The effect of this proposed rule will
     be the abridgment of citizens' constitutional rights.

     ARGUMENT:
     Neither Congress nor any federal agency may compel a state or states'
     officers to implement or enforce a federal regulatory program.

     PREMISE FOR OBJECTION:
     In implementation, the states will be compelled to comply with these
     federal guidelines in the issuance of all driver's license documents.
     Section 1331.6 of the proposed regulation plainly demands that all
     states must obtain SSNs from "every applicant for a license or
     document," and further requires that every state confirm the
     applicant's SSN with the Social Security Administration (SSA). But
     under the U.S. Constitution, Congress simply does not possess the
     power to regulate the issuance of driverbs licenses by the states
     of this Union; nor may Congress dictate to the states how to issue
     driverbs licenses.

     The United States Supreme Court has ruled that the federal government
     may not, neither through Congressional Acts nor Administrative Policy,
     conscript the states nor their officers to implement a federal
     regulatory scheme. In the case of New York v. United States the Court
     ruled:

        "if a federal interest is sufficiently strong to cause Congress
        to legislate, it must do so directly; it may not conscript state
        government as its agents."

     And in the case of Printz v. U.S. the Court ruled:

        "The Federal Government may neither issue directives requiring
        the States to address particular problems, nor command the States'
        officers, or those of their political subdivisions, to administer
        or enforce a federal regulatory program. It matters not whether
        policy making is involved, and no case by case weighing of the
        burdens or benefits is necessary; such commands are fundamentally
        incompatible with our constitutional system of dual sovereignty."

     CONCLUSION:
     The rule must be rewritten so as not to compel the states to act
     in furtherance of the federally proposed regulatory SSN collecting
     scheme; or to compel the states to standardize their state issued
     licenses to conform to federal guidelines.


OTHER LEGAL OBJECTIONS:


o Privacy Act Prohibition

     OBJECTION:
     In implementation, the proposed rule will result in violations of
     the Privacy Act of 1974.

     ARGUMENT:
     The Privacy Act prohibits any federal, state, or local agency from
     denying any individual a benefit, right, or privilege due to the
     individual's refusal to divulge a social security number UNLESS the
     submission is REQUIRED BY FEDERAL LAW. There IS NO federal law which
     requires any state licensing agency to obtain social security numbers
     from license applicants; furthermore, if there were such a federal
     law imposing any such requirement upon a state licensing agency, the
     law would be fundamentally unconstitutional under the U.S. Supreme
     Court's New York and Printz rulings.

     PREMISE:
     The privacy Act of 1974 (Public Law 93-579) Section 7 states:

        "(a)(1) It shall be unlawful for any Federal, State or local
        government agency to deny to any individual any right, benefit,
        or privilege provided by law because of such individual's
        refusal to disclose his social security account number.
        "(2) the (The) provisions of paragraph (1) of this subsection
        shall not apply with respect to -
        "(A) any disclosure which is required by Federal statute, or
        "(B) the disclosure of a social security number to any Federal,
        State, or local agency maintaining a system of records in existence
        and operating before January 1, 1975, if such disclosure was
        required under statute or regulation adopted prior to such date
        to verify the identity of an individual.
        "(b) Any Federal, State, or local government agency which requests
        an individual to disclose his social security account number shall
        inform that individual whether that disclosure is mandatory or
        voluntary, by what statutory or other authority such number is
        solicited, and what uses will be made of it."

     Congress has no authority to compel a state agency to obtain social
     security numbers -- except with regard to state administered,
     federally funded welfare programs. However, Congress does have the
     right to LIMIT the uses that may be made of the federally assigned
     numbers; which is what the Privacy Act does.

     In practice, the effect of the proposed rule will be that state
     driver's licensing agencies will deny driver licenses to individuals
     who do not supply a social security number. This practice will
     violate the clear intent of the Privacy Act.

     The Social Security Act provides penalties for anyone who compels the
     disclosure of an individual's social security number in violation of
     federal law. Title 42 U.S. Code, section 408(a)(8) states:

        "[Whoever] discloses, uses, or compels the disclosure of the social
        security number of any person in violation of the laws of the United
        States; shall be guilty of a felony and upon conviction thereof
        shall be fined under title 18 or imprisoned for not more than five
        years, or both."

     The Privacy Act prohibits any state agency from compelling an
     individual to disclose their social security number unless the
     disclosure is required by federal law. There is no federal law
     which does (or lawfully could) require a state agency to compel
     the disclosure of a driver license applicant's social security
     number. The effectual result of the proposed rule will be that
     driver's license applicants will be denied a benefit, right, or
     privilege for refusing to supply a social security number. This
     practice will violate Title 42 U.S.C., 408(a)(8). Such violations
     will likely result in a multitude of lawsuits and possibly even
     criminal prosecutions against state officials.

     CONCLUSION:
     The rule must be rewritten so as to clearly reaffirm that a state
     agency may not deny to any individual any benefit, right, or
     privilege due to the individual's refusal to obtain, or provide to
     the agency, a federally assigned social security number; and to
     reaffirm that state agencies must comply with the Privacy Act any
     time a social security number is requested.


   o Limited Class of People Who May Acquire Social Security Numbers:

     OBJECTION:
     The proposed rule will effectively limit driving to the limited
     classes of individuals who may be assigned social security
     numbers.

     ARGUMENT:
     There is no compelling police power interest in limiting the
     right to drive to only the limited classes of individuals that
     may be assigned social security numbers.

     PREMISE FOR OBJECTION:
     The Social Security Act, codified at Title 42 U.S. Code, Section
     405(c), sets out the limited class of individuals to whom the
     Commissioner of Social Security may assign numbers. The classes
     are: 1) aliens, 2) applicants for social benefits, and 3) children
     of the members of either of these two classes at the request of
     the parents or at the time they enter school. According to well
     established legal principles, the Commissioner is not authorized
     to (and therefore he may not) assign numbers to any individual who
     falls outside one of the classes set out at section 405(c).

     NOTE: If there are any other classes of Americans who may be
           assigned Social Security numbers, please so advise me
           and please provide the statutory authority.

     At the federal level, a principle of law holds that in order for
     a federal employee to perform any given act, he must be authorized
     by statute to do so. This principle is shown by a wealth of cases,
     (See United States v. Spain, 825 F.2d 1426 (10th Cir. 1987); United
     States v. Pees, 645 F. Supp. 697 (D. Col. 1986); United States v.
     Hovey, 674 F. Supp. 161 (D. Del. 1987); United States v. Emerson,
     846 F. 2d 541 (9th Cir. 1988); United States v. McLaughlin, 851 F.
     2d 283 (9th Cir. 1988); United States v. Widdowson, 916 F.2d 587,
     589 (10th Cir. 1990).

     The only federal law which authorizes the assignment of SSNs to
     anyone is found in the above quoted passage of 42 U.S.C., $405,
     and these classes do not include all the citizens of each state
     who are otherwise qualified to drive.

     The rule presently makes a special exception for aliens lawfully
     admitted to the United States who may not be issued Social Security
     cards. However, the rule does not presently make any similar
     exceptions for domestic Americans who cannot be, or have not been,
     or do not choose to be, assigned Social Security cards or numbers.
     Since some domestic Americans (who are otherwise qualified to drive)
     have NOT been, may NOT be, or do not choose to be, assigned Social
     Security numbers, the resultant effect of the rule, as presently
     written, will be that the right to drive will only be recognized for
     the limited class of individuals who are authorized to be assigned
     a Social Security number and have subsequently been assigned such
     number.

     In a recent letter from the Social Security Administration, signed
     by Mr. Charles H. Mullen, Associate Commissioner, the Agency states:

        "The Social Security Act does not require a person to have a
        Social Security number (SSN) to live and work in the United
        States, nor does it require an SSN simply for the purpose of
        having one."

     CONCLUSION:
     The proposed rule must make exceptions for citizens who have NOT
     been (or may NOT be) assigned Social Security numbers but are
     otherwise qualified to drive and be issued a driver's license.


OTHER CONCERNS:


   o The Act (P.L. 104-208) Prohibits Establishment of National ID Card:

      OBJECTION:
      The proposed rule violates the very Act it purports to implement.

      ARGUMENT AND PREMISE:
      The Act, at Section 404(h)(2), states that provisions contained
      within the Act shall not be used as an excuse for the establishment
      of a national identification card. However, the proposed rule will
      result in the establishment of a national identification card, i.e.,
      standardized state issued driver's license cards using Social
      Security numbers as a universal identifier will become nationally
      standardized and universally recognized identification documents.

      CONCLUSION:
      The proposed rule must be changed so that it will not result in
      the establishment of a national identification card.


   o Social Security Numbers Are Not to be Used for Identification:

      OBJECTION:
      The rule will establish a national identification system in the
      United States using social security numbers as the universal
      identifier in clear violation of historically established public
      policy.

      ARGUMENT AND PREMISE:
      The official U. S. government policy has always consistently been that
      it is not desirable to establish any form of national identification
      document in the U.S., and that social security numbers are not to be
      used for universal identification purposes. For example:

      - In 1971, a Social Security Administration task force issued a
      report which stated that the Social Security Administration should
      do nothing to promote the use of the social security number as an
      identifier.
      - In 1973, a report of the HEW Secretary's "Advisory Committee on
      Automated Personal Data System" concluded that the adoption of a
      universal identifier by this country was not desirable; it also
      found that the social security number was not suitable for such a
      purpose as it does not meet the criteria of a universal identifier
      that distinguishes a person from all others.
      - In 1974, Congress enacted the Privacy Act (P.L. 93-579) to limit
      governmental use of the social security number. It provided that
      no State or local government agency may withhold a benefit from a
      person simply because the individual refuses to furnish his or her
      social security number.
      - Also in 1974, the U. S. Attorney General established the "Federal
      Advisory Committee on False Identification" (FACFI) to study the
      cost to society of false ID crimes and to formulate potential
      solutions for reducing the number of these crimes. The Committee
      concluded in its report that "[a] federally-controlled national
      identification system is undesirable."
      - In 1976, the Federal Advisory Committee on False Identification
      (FACFI) recommended that penalties for misuse of social security
      numbers should be increased, and again it rejected the idea of
      using social security numbers as a national identifier.
      - In 1977, the Carter Administration proposed that the Social
      Security card be one of the authorized documents an employer could
      use to assure that a job applicant could work in this country, but
      they also stated that the social security number card should not
      become a national identity document.
      - In 1979, the Social Security Administration published an official
      "Policy Statement" regarding social security numbers, ((PPD-23),
      SSR 79-18: SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS). In it, the Administration
      stated that the agency should "avoid unilateral policies that would
      push the SSN toward a universal identifier status." Final regulations
      covering this policy were published in the Federal Register on
      February 20, 1979, at 44 FR 10369.
      - In 1981, the Reagan Administration stated that it "is explicitly
      opposed to the creation of a national identity card" with regard to
      changes proposed to social security number cards; even though it
      recognized the need for a means for employers to comply with the
      employer sanctions provisions of its immigration reform legislation.
      - In 1993, President Bill Clinton proposed a universal Health
      Insurance identification card which used the social security number
      for identification. He even appeared on television showing a sample
      version of the ID card. It was later learned that the executive-level
      plan to establish a national ID had been devised during "secret
      meetings" held by the Presidentbs wife, Hillary Clinton. However,
      Congress and the public both rejected the national identification
      document scheme.
      - In 1996, Congress passed the Illegal Immigration Reform Act which
      authorized the use of social security numbers for verifying employment
      eligibility of aliens. Section 404 of the Act stated that nothing in
      the Act was to be construed to authorize, directly or indirectly,
      the issuance or use of national identification cards.
      - And currently, the Social Security Agency offers a publication
      entitled "Social Security - Your Number" in which it states that a
      person should not use their social security card or number for
      identification.

      (All of the above information was taken from U. S. government documents
      including material published by the Social Security Administration.
      See also the Social Security Administration's own Internet home page
      regarding the history of SSNs at:
      http://www.ssa.gov/history/ssnchron.html)

      CONCLUSION:
      The rule must be rewritten so as not to violate public policy by
      implementing a national identification system.



   o The proposed rule will unlawfully impact all domestic American.

     OBJECTION:
     The rule will result in all citizens being subjected to the rule's
     identification verification requirements; however, the Act was only
     intended to apply to illegal immigrants. Domestic Americans should
     not be subjected to the rule's identification requirements.

     ARGUMENT:
     The Act was not written to regulate domestic Americans, only
     illegal aliens.

     PREMISE FOR OBJECTION:
     The Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act
     of 1996, Public Law 104-208 (the law which the subject rule
     purports to implement) was enacted to address the problem of
     illegal immigration by identifying illegal immigrants. The Act
     does not contemplate subjecting "all" individuals to any type
     of proof of citizenship -- which will be the resultant effect
     if the rule is implemented as presently written. The rule will
     regulate the whole population of the country instead of the
     very small category of individuals for which the Act was
     intended.

     CONCLUSION:
     There is no statutory or constitutional authority for
     subjecting citizens to the legal immigration verification
     requirements set out under the proposed rule.

-------------------------

FOR FURTHER INFORMATION REGARDING SUBMISSION OF COMMENTS CONTACT:
Mr. William Holden, Chief, Driver Register and Traffic Records Division,
(202) 366-4800


Reply to: 
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC 
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 22:14:24 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Atilla Remailer Down...
Message-ID: <009C93C6.999133A0.1@west.cscwc.pima.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


From:	MX%"Postmaster@west.cscwc.pima.edu"  "SMTP delivery agent" 15-JUL-1998 22:13:46.82
To:	MX%"lreed@west.cscwc.pima.edu"
CC:	
Subj:	SMTP delivery error

Return-Path: <>
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 22:13:44 MST
From: SMTP delivery agent 
To: 
Subject: SMTP delivery error
X-Report-Type: Nondelivery; boundary="> Error description:"

Note: this message was generated automatically.

An error was detected while processing the enclosed message.  A list of
the affected recipients follows.  This list is in a special format that
allows software like LISTSERV to automatically take action on incorrect
addresses; you can safely ignore the numeric codes.

--> Error description:

Error-For:  attila@prime.net
Error-Code: 2
Error-Text: %MX_SMTP-F-GENERIC_FAILURE, unknown failure status
            -(Via prime.net)
  -Transcript:
    -Rcvd: 220 webm4.ntx.net ESMTP Sendmail 8.8.5/8.8.5; Wed, 15 Jul 1998 21:58:47 -0700 (PDT)
    -Sent: HELO west.cscwc.pima.edu
    -Rcvd: 250 webm4.ntx.net Hello west.wc.pima.edu [144.90.64.14], pleased to meet you
    -Sent: MAIL FROM:
    -Rcvd: 250 ... Sender ok
    -Sent: RCPT TO:
    -Rcvd: 571 ... [144.90.64.14] not permitted to relay from  to 

Error-End:  1 error detected

------------------------------ Rejected message ------------------------------
Received: by west.cscwc.pima.edu (MX V4.2 VAX) id 21; Wed, 15 Jul 1998 22:13:22 MST
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 22:13:22 MST
From: Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC 
To: attila@prime.net
Message-ID: <009C93C6.3E06C0E0.21@west.cscwc.pima.edu>
Subject: Sure, you *claim* you're a Deacon...


"Evangelists do more than lay people."





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Jean-Francois Avon" 
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 20:24:46 -0700 (PDT)
To: "Jean-Claude Bouthillier" 
Subject: [humor]
Message-ID: <199807160338.XAA02713@cti06.citenet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



      In Computer Heaven:
         The management is from Intel,
         The design and construction is done by Apple,
         The marketing is done by Microsoft,
         IBM provides the support,
         Gateway determines the pricing.

      In Computer Hell:
         The management is from Apple,
         Microsoft does design and construction,
         IBM handles the marketing,
         The support is from Gateway,
         Intel sets the price.



Jean-Francois Avon, B.Sc. Physics, Montreal, Canada
  DePompadour, Société d'Importation Ltée
     Limoges fine porcelain and french crystal
  JFA Technologies, R&D physicists & engineers
     Instrumentation & control, LabView programming
PGP keys: http://bs.mit.edu:8001/pks-toplev.html
PGP ID:C58ADD0D:529645E8205A8A5E F87CC86FAEFEF891
PGP ID:5B51964D:152ACCBCD4A481B0 254011193237822C






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: dennis e strausser jr 
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 00:10:58 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: show me
Message-ID: <35ADD147.713B@nbn.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I will not say much
  give me what you have




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Stockpro@public.usa.com
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 00:17:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Grand prize 10 day trip to HAWAII...Enter the drawing!!!!.
Message-ID: <690.100987.666524@user00923.mitc.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: RealNetworks News 
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 08:44:53 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: FREE! Brilliant Audio With New RealPlayer G2
Message-ID: <199807161544.IAA27433@dmail3.real-net.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Dear RealPlayer User,

I'm very excited to announce the beta release of
RealPlayer G2 and RealPlayer Plus G2, available 
for download now.

With RealPlayer G2 you'll get a quantum leap in 
RealAudio and RealVideo quality, including an 80% 
improvement in RealAudio's frequency response and 
smoother, sharper RealVideo.

RealPlayer G2 technology dramatically reduces 
rebuffering, which means less break-up in RealAudio
and RealVideo streams.  With this new feature you'll
notice increased performance over your modem -- even
under poor network conditions.

RealPlayer G2 allows you to reach a universe of
programming directly through your player.  With the 
touch of a button through RealChannels you can access
great channels like CNN, Screening Room (movie 
previews), ABC, NPR, Comedy Central, and more.

To download now, visit:

--> http://www.real.com/50/rg26a.html

We are also releasing a new version of the premium 
RealPlayer, RealPlayer Plus G2.  With RealPlayer Plus
G2 you'll receive:

*  Even better RealAudio and RealVideo quality
*  Hi-fi audio display with spectrum analyzer
*  10 channel graphic equalizer for tuning treble, bass,
   and mid-range
*  Video controls which work just like your TV set --
   you control brightness, contrast, and saturation

All of this with a 30-day money back guarantee -- just
$29.99.  To download now, visit:

--> http://www.real.com/50/plusg26a.html

+===+===+===+===+===+===+===+===+===+===+===+===+===+
"RealPlayer G2 from RealNetworks is the next generation
of streaming media players. End users can now experience
high quality audio and video..." - ZDNet, 5/1998

"Overall, RealPlayer is a class-act, this is one 
application you'll definitely want to have for your online
daily web surfing..." - Strouds Review, 5/1998

84% of our users say RealPlayer G2 sounds better.  86% 
say the new RealPlayer G2 interface is better.  They also
use RealPlayer G2 to stay informed everyday!  We hope 
you'll try for yourself -- and ENJOY!
+===+===+===+===+===+===+===+===+===+===+===+===+===+
Thank you for continuing to use RealNetworks products,

Maria Cantwell
Senior Vice President
RealNetworks, Inc.
Seattle, WA  USA

---------------------------------------------
 ABOUT THIS E-MAIL

 This e-mail was sent to users of RealPlayer
 software who indicated a preference during
 the download or installation process to receive
 notification of new RealNetworks products or
 services via e-mail.

 For information about subscribing to or
 unsubscribing from future announcements, visit
 http://www.real.com/mailinglist/index.html





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Samson 
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 08:07:12 -0700 (PDT)
To: Cyberdog 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Cyberdog wrote:
> 
> Blumenthal Discovery requests both the Email subscriber list to
> Drudge Report AND contributor list to Drudge Legal Defense
> Fund...

mailto:help@nym.alias.net - don't subscribe without it.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED/EUREKA! 
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 05:03:17 -0700 (PDT)
To: All Eureka/Stuffed Subscribers: ;
Subject: My wife shagged the pool team/Swedish hooker sues clients
Message-ID: <19980716110827.14015.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/html

Click for STUFFED: Thursday July 16 1998


Click here for STUFFED, the new daily
 tabloid news, humor and babes newspaper from Eureka!

This is a combined text/html email. If your email client can
display html web pages  you probably won't see this text but
should see the front cover of today's issue above, which you
should  click on to read.  If you cannot see the cover, your
email client either cannot display html or its' options have
been set to  ignore html images.  In which case,  please ...
Click here to read today's! --> http://stuffed.net/98/7/16/

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Graham-John Bullers" 
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 10:16:27 -0700 (PDT)
To: announce@dmail1.real-net.net>
Subject: Re: FREE! Brilliant Audio With New RealPlayer G2
In-Reply-To: <199807161544.IAA27433@dmail3.real-net.net>
Message-ID: <199807161715.LAA14028@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Date sent:      	Thu, 16 Jul 1998 08:44:35 -0700
To:             	cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject:        	FREE! Brilliant Audio With New RealPlayer G2
From:           	RealNetworks News 
Send reply to:  	RealNetworks News 

> Dear RealPlayer User,
> 
> I'm very excited to announce the beta release of
> RealPlayer G2 and RealPlayer Plus G2, available 
> for download now.
> 
> With RealPlayer G2 you'll get a quantum leap in 
> RealAudio and RealVideo quality, including an 80% 
> improvement in RealAudio's frequency response and 
> smoother, sharper RealVideo.
> 
> RealPlayer G2 technology dramatically reduces 
> rebuffering, which means less break-up in RealAudio
> and RealVideo streams.  With this new feature you'll
> notice increased performance over your modem -- even
> under poor network conditions.
> 
> RealPlayer G2 allows you to reach a universe of
> programming directly through your player.  With the 
> touch of a button through RealChannels you can access
> great channels like CNN, Screening Room (movie 
> previews), ABC, NPR, Comedy Central, and more.
> 
> To download now, visit:
> 
> --> http://www.real.com/50/rg26a.html
> 
> We are also releasing a new version of the premium 
> RealPlayer, RealPlayer Plus G2.  With RealPlayer Plus
> G2 you'll receive:
> 
> *  Even better RealAudio and RealVideo quality
> *  Hi-fi audio display with spectrum analyzer
> *  10 channel graphic equalizer for tuning treble, bass,
>    and mid-range
> *  Video controls which work just like your TV set --
>    you control brightness, contrast, and saturation
> 
> All of this with a 30-day money back guarantee -- just
> $29.99.  To download now, visit:
> 
> --> http://www.real.com/50/plusg26a.html
> 
> +===+===+===+===+===+===+===+===+===+===+===+===+===+
> "RealPlayer G2 from RealNetworks is the next generation
> of streaming media players. End users can now experience
> high quality audio and video..." - ZDNet, 5/1998
> 
> "Overall, RealPlayer is a class-act, this is one 
> application you'll definitely want to have for your online
> daily web surfing..." - Strouds Review, 5/1998
> 
> 84% of our users say RealPlayer G2 sounds better.  86% 
> say the new RealPlayer G2 interface is better.  They also
> use RealPlayer G2 to stay informed everyday!  We hope 
> you'll try for yourself -- and ENJOY!
> +===+===+===+===+===+===+===+===+===+===+===+===+===+
> Thank you for continuing to use RealNetworks products,
> 
> Maria Cantwell
> Senior Vice President
> RealNetworks, Inc.
> Seattle, WA  USA
> 
> ---------------------------------------------
>  ABOUT THIS E-MAIL
> 
>  This e-mail was sent to users of RealPlayer
>  software who indicated a preference during
>  the download or installation process to receive
>  notification of new RealNetworks products or
>  services via e-mail.
> 
>  For information about subscribing to or
>  unsubscribing from future announcements, visit
>  http://www.real.com/mailinglist/index.html






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Reeza! 
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 20:14:47 -0700 (PDT)
To: Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980716120515.00902370@205.83.192.13>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Didn't this start out as

SPACE ALIENS ATE MY DRUGS!

Reeza!




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Support Online Staff" 
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 13:21:25 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: Windows and Internet Explorer Support News Watch - July 13, 1998
Message-ID: <199807162021.NAA27346@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Windows and Internet Explorer Support News Watch
================================================

As a subscriber to the Windows and Internet Explorer Support News Watch, you receive e-mail twice each month that highlights some of the new articles recently published on Support Online, Microsoft's award-winning technical support web site. The following are new Support Online articles that answer frequently asked questions about using Windows and Internet Explorer:

Contents
--------

 - Microsoft Windows 98
 - Microsoft Internet Explorer 4.0 for Windows 95 and Windows NT 4.0
 - Microsoft Windows CE

Microsoft Windows 98
--------------------

Troubleshooting Windows 98 Startup Problems and Error Messages (Q188867)
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q188/8/67.asp

Cannot Connect to America Online or Install America Online 4.0 (Q188654)
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q188/6/54.asp

Err Msg: There Is No WinModem Found in Your Computer, But... (Q188601)
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q188/6/01.asp

Err Msg: Not Enough Memory to Convert to FAT32. To Free Up... (Q188561)
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q188/5/61.asp

DVD Support in Windows 98 (Q188513)
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q188/5/13.asp

Error Message: Error 745: An Essential File Is Missing (Q174579)
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q174/5/79.asp

Error Message "Invalid System Disk" After Setup Reboots (Q128730)
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q128/7/30.asp

"Earlier Version of MSN Detected" Using Inbox Icon (Q189077)
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q189/0/77.asp

"Call to Undefined Dynalink" Message During Windows 98 Setup (Q188970)
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q188/9/70.asp

"Internal Error Occurred" Error Message Using Internet Explorer (Q188952)
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q188/9/52.asp

Error Message: Not Enough Memory to Load RamDrive (Q188886)
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q188/8/86.asp

Err Msg: This Software Does Not Support Windows 98 and... (Q188865)
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q188/8/65.asp

Err Msg: This Version of Windows Does Not Run on MS-DOS 7.0... (Q188795)
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q188/7/95.asp

Err Msg: There Is No WinModem Found in Your Computer, But... (Q188601)
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q188/6/01.asp

Err Msg: Windows Cannot Find Program.exe, Which Is Needed... (Q188592)
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q188/5/92.asp

Cannot Gain Access to Multiple CD-ROM Drives Using Startup Disk (Q188391)
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q188/3/91.asp

Err Msg: The Microsoft Dial-Up Adapter Is in Use or Not... (Q188141)
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q188/1/41.asp

Minimum Hardware Requirements for Windows 98 Installation (Q182751)
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q182/7/51.asp



Microsoft Internet Explorer 4.0 for Windows 95 and Windows NT 4.0
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Err Msg: Internet Explorer Cannot Open the Site ... (Q189057)
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q189/0/57.asp

Internet Explorer Issues Extra Challenge with NTLM (Q189033)
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q189/0/33.asp

Check Boxes and Option Buttons on Web Page Are Not Printed (Q188988)
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q188/9/88.asp

Err Msg: Internet Explorer Cannot Open the Internet Site... (Q188839)
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q188/8/39.asp

Problems with Internet Explorer and the Safe Passage Program (Q188706)
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q188/7/06.asp


Microsoft Windows CE
--------------------

WinCE: Cannot Connect Handheld PC Using Dial-Up Networking (Q189122)
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q189/1/22.asp

WinCE 2.0: Terminal Connection Settings Spontaneously Change (Q189097)
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q189/0/97.asp

WinCE: Infrared Connection Disconnects During Synchronization (Q189058)
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q189/0/58.asp

WinCE: System Tool in Control Panel Lists Only One PC Card (Q188980)
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q188/9/80.asp

WinCE: Remote Networking Connection Preferences Are Not Saved (Q188894)
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q188/8/94.asp

Summary of Known Issues in Pocket Word on a Handheld PC (Q188782)
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q188/7/82.asp

Summary of Issues in Note Taker on a Palm-Size PC (Q188505)
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q188/5/05.asp

InstallShield Hangs When You Install Windows CE Services (Q188485)
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q188/4/85.asp



Get Support Online Articles by E-mail
-------------------------------------

You can also receive these articles (and others) in e-mail by sending a message to mshelp@microsoft.com. In the Subject line of your message, enter the Article-ID number (Qnnnnnn). For example to receive Q162721, your Subject line should resemble the following example:

   Subject: Q162721

You can have multiple articles sent to you in e-mail by typing multiple Article-ID numbers separated by a comma. For example:

   Subject: Q178049, Q174914, Q174062

To receive an index of articles, enter "Index" (without quotation marks) in the Subject line. For example: 

   Subject: Index

The MSHelp Index is updated monthly. For more information about MSHelp, see http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q183/1/21.asp.

Visit Support Online
--------------------

We also encourage you to visit Support Online at http://support.microsoft.com/support/ to see our complete selection of helpful articles designed to answer questions about using Microsoft products.

New Features Make Finding Your Answers on Support Online Even Easier
====================================================================

Support Online recently released a number of new features to make it even easier to find the answers you need. The following highlights some of the enhancements you'll see on Support Online at http://support.microsoft.com/. For information about how to use these new Support Online features, see http://support.microsoft.com/support/howto/.

- Specify an article ID number. If you know the ID number of the 
  Knowledge Base article you want, you can enter the ID number 
  to find that specific article.

- Search for troubleshooting tools. Now you can customize your 
  search to include troubleshooting tools only.

- Search for specific drivers and other downloadable files. If you
  know the name of the driver or download file you want, enter the
  full file name to find the file on Support Online. 

- See what's new. If you want to see the latest information about 
  a product and/or a topic, use the What's New option and select 
  the number of days you want to review. You can select 1, 3, 7, 
  14, or 30 days.  

- Toggle between Advanced View and Basic View. Advanced View 
  offers additional search options and other features. Now you 
  can easily toggle between Advanced View and Basic View.

Need help using these features? See http://support.microsoft.com/support/howto/.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Microsoft-sponsored events:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
For information on all Microsoft-sponsored events, please visit:
http://www.microsoft.com/events/

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
How to use this mailing list:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You received this e-mail newsletter as a result of your registration on the Microsoft.com Personal Information Center. You may unsubscribe from this e-mail newsletter, or subscribe to a variety of other informative e-mail newsletters, by returning to the Personal Information Center at
http://register.microsoft.com/regwiz/personalinfo.asp
and changing your subscription preferences.

Alternatively, please send a reply to this e-mail with the word "unsubscribe" as the first line in the body of the message.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
THIS DOCUMENT IS PROVIDED FOR INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY.  The information contained in this document represents the current view of Microsoft Corporation on the issues discussed as of the date of publication.  Because Microsoft must respond to change in market conditions, it should not be interpreted to be a commitment on the part of Microsoft and Microsoft cannot guarantee the accuracy of any information presented after the date of publication.
INFORMATION PROVIDED IN THIS DOCUMENT IS PROVIDED 'AS IS' WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND FREEDOM FROM INFRINGEMENT.
The user assumes the entire risk as to the accuracy and the use of this document. This  document may be copied and distributed subject to the following conditions:
1.   All text must be copied without modification and all pages must be included
2.   All copies must contain Microsoft's copyright notice and any other notices provided therein
3.   This document may not be distributed for profit




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: CTIA Daily News 
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 10:38:56 -0700 (PDT)
To: CTIA Daily News 
Subject: CTIA Daily News from WOW-COM - July 16, 1998
Message-ID: <199807161726.MAA04271@mailstrom.revnet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




=============================================
Welcome to today's edition of the CTIA Daily
News
from WOW-COM.  Please click on the icon /
attachment
for the most important news in wireless
communications today.

WIRELESS IT '98, The Next Generation in
Personal
Computing & Communications October
12-14,
Las Vegas, Nevada Call (202) 785-0081 for more
information!
=============================================
 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 13:47:28 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Senate Talks Crypto Law
Message-ID: <199807162047.QAA20692@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Thanks to Greg Garcia, ACP:

"Congress Needs to Act on Encryption Legislation,"
In July 15 Congressional Record.

An encryption colloquy among Senators Lott, Leahy, Craig,
Burns, Ashcroft, Abraham, and Shelby:

   http://jya.com/cr071598.htm

Private doorbell is gummed.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: abcdefg@mindspring.com
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 14:01:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Steve Langford for Governor
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



FOUR REASONS TO VOTE FOR STEVE LANGFORD
HE IS PRO-BUSINESS

Steve Langford is the only candidate for Governor who has paid the bills of a business and passed 
bills in the General Assembly.  Langford Construction, his family business, was awarded the Family 
Business of the Year Award for 1995 by the Michael J. Coles School of Business at Kennesaw State 
University.  Steve Langford was given a score of 92% by the National Federation of Independent 
Business (the only other Democratic candidate for Governor in the General Assembly got 67%).

HE IS PRO-CHOICE
Steve Langford opposes any government interference in your right to make decisions about 
reproductive health--and he has the voting record to prove it:
-  Voted against state-mandated lectures and forced waiting periods.
-  Voted against--and took the Senate well to speak against--Senate Bill 357, which would have 
banned certain abortion procedures. The Ohio version of this bill was recently ruled unconstitutional 
by the U.S. Supreme Court.

HE IS PRO-ENVIRONMENT
Steve Langford's Senate Bill 500 is the bill that made the City of Atlanta pay fines for polluting the 
Chattahoochee--and finally got the city moving toward a solution to the persistent problems of 
Atlanta's water and sewer systems. Why does it matter?  Each time it rains more than 1/10 inch, 
Atlanta sewers overflow into the Chattahoochee.  Of course, if you live downstream of Atlanta, you 
already knew that.

HE IS PRO-TAXPAYER
Steve Langford introduced a bill in the 1998 General Assembly that would give you a rebate when 
the state has a surplus (if you owed $1,000 in Georgia income taxes last year, you would have 
gotten a $100 rebate on your taxes).  No surplus?  No rebate.  Makes sense, doesn't it?

LIKE WHAT YOU SEE?  INTERESTED IN LEARNING MORE?  
VISIT STEVE LANGFORD'S WEBSITE AT www.steve-langford.org

GOT SOMETHING TO SAY?  E-MAIL STEVE LANGFORD AT stevelangford@mindspring.com

THOSE YET TO ENTER THE COMPUTER AGE CAN CALL STEVE LANGFORD AT (770)984-
1998, OR WRITE HIM AT: 
FRIENDS OF STEVE LANGFORD
1955 LOWER ROSWELL ROAD, SUITE A
MARIETTA, GA 30068





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: abcdefg@mindspring.com
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 14:22:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Steve Langford for Governor
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



FOUR REASONS TO VOTE FOR STEVE LANGFORD
HE IS PRO-BUSINESS

Steve Langford is the only candidate for Governor who has paid the bills of a business and passed 
bills in the General Assembly.  Langford Construction, his family business, was awarded the Family 
Business of the Year Award for 1995 by the Michael J. Coles School of Business at Kennesaw State 
University.  Steve Langford was given a score of 92% by the National Federation of Independent 
Business (the only other Democratic candidate for Governor in the General Assembly got 67%).

HE IS PRO-CHOICE
Steve Langford opposes any government interference in your right to make decisions about 
reproductive health--and he has the voting record to prove it:
-  Voted against state-mandated lectures and forced waiting periods.
-  Voted against--and took the Senate well to speak against--Senate Bill 357, which would have 
banned certain abortion procedures. The Ohio version of this bill was recently ruled unconstitutional 
by the U.S. Supreme Court.

HE IS PRO-ENVIRONMENT
Steve Langford's Senate Bill 500 is the bill that made the City of Atlanta pay fines for polluting the 
Chattahoochee--and finally got the city moving toward a solution to the persistent problems of 
Atlanta's water and sewer systems. Why does it matter?  Each time it rains more than 1/10 inch, 
Atlanta sewers overflow into the Chattahoochee.  Of course, if you live downstream of Atlanta, you 
already knew that.

HE IS PRO-TAXPAYER
Steve Langford introduced a bill in the 1998 General Assembly that would give you a rebate when 
the state has a surplus (if you owed $1,000 in Georgia income taxes last year, you would have 
gotten a $100 rebate on your taxes).  No surplus?  No rebate.  Makes sense, doesn't it?

LIKE WHAT YOU SEE?  INTERESTED IN LEARNING MORE?  
VISIT STEVE LANGFORD'S WEBSITE AT www.steve-langford.org

GOT SOMETHING TO SAY?  E-MAIL STEVE LANGFORD AT stevelangford@mindspring.com

THOSE YET TO ENTER THE COMPUTER AGE CAN CALL STEVE LANGFORD AT (770)984-
1998, OR WRITE HIM AT: 
FRIENDS OF STEVE LANGFORD
1955 LOWER ROSWELL ROAD, SUITE A
MARIETTA, GA 30068





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Nicolas Robidoux 
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 00:50:02 -0700 (PDT)
To: jf_avon@citenet.net
Subject: Re: [humor]
In-Reply-To: <199807160338.XAA02713@cti06.citenet.net>
Message-ID: <9807160740.AA28593@ma-kaka.massey.ac.nz>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Nicolas' homebrewed quip (vive Linux!):

I really like the Natural Keyboard, but I would never trust a keyboard
manufacturer to put together an operating system.

nicolas




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Kevin Stephenson 
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 23:30:37 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: NYT Crypto OpEd
In-Reply-To: <199807152141.RAA24473@camel7.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <199807170630.XAA13442@mail2.deltanet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1


 At 05:36 PM 7/15/98 -0400, you wrote: >The NYT has a fairly good OpEd
on encryption today, >written by a novelist, who makes a good case for
>the citizen's need for the privacy protection, now that >there are a
zillion ways computers pry into private >affairs. > >=A0=A0
http://www.nytimes.com > >For those outside the US: NYT today began
its free  >worldwide online service, so the whole world can log  >on
to its prying computers. (Non-USes heretofore  >had to pay for privacy
loss.) It claims to have 4 million  >daily online consumers and is happy
to run an advertiser  >drivern operation to suck in millions more around
the  >planet. > >Take note, Slate. >   How many smaller sites
will be able to break even with advertising subsidies, let alone make a
profit? Advertisers are going to head to the big sites and you'll see a
media concentration on the Internet just like TV and print, unless small
sites can find a creative way to charge for content.  If people aren't
willing to pay for on-line New York Times, they sure  as hell aren't going
to pay much if anything for Mom and Pop's Independent Media/Content. If
they were willing to pay, they probably wouldn't want to use an unfamiliar
and exotic technology like digital cash and they don't want to ring up
$1.00 charges on their Visa for the smaller bits of content wanted from
these other providers.  How about consolidated third-party content billing,
with monthly payment to the billing company by any form (check, cash,
digital cash, credit card, gold coins)? Full anonimity available when
paying with cash or the like.  Give the consumer easy credit and they will
come.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.5.2

iQA/AwUBNa7vh3boo5vy7gslEQIdrgCgt4pceZMvqLApbKHt/y/yhDZeTY4AoMQe
+6rV1sFP4mGmJXNd/lNa3WTR
=fc8V
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 14:48:47 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: DES-II-2 contest finished already!
In-Reply-To: <199807161906.VAA05449@basement.replay.com>
Message-ID: <199807162149.XAA27444@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Will RSA pay if the DES-gilmo was used? Or was 
RSA playacting john?






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Gilmore 
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 00:16:30 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: "EFF DES Cracker" machine brings honesty to crypto debate
Message-ID: <199807170716.AAA04031@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
July 17, 1998

CONTACTS:
   Alexander Fowler, +1 202 462 5826, afowler@eff.org
   Barry Steinhardt, +1 415 436 9333 ext. 102, barrys@eff.org
   John Gilmore, +1 415 221 6524, gnu@toad.com

  "EFF DES CRACKER" MACHINE BRINGS HONESTY TO CRYPTO DEBATE

 ELECTRONIC FRONTIER FOUNDATION PROVES THAT DES IS NOT SECURE

SAN FRANCISCO, CA -- The Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) today
raised the level of honesty in crypto politics by revealing that the
Data Encryption Standard (DES) is insecure.  The U.S. government has
long pressed industry to limit encryption to DES (and even weaker
forms), without revealing how easy it is to crack.  Continued adherence
to this policy would put critical infrastructures at risk; society
should choose a different course.

To prove the insecurity of DES, EFF built the first unclassified
hardware for cracking messages encoded with it.  On Wednesday of this
week the EFF DES Cracker, which was built for less than $250,000,
easily won RSA Laboratory's "DES Challenge II" contest and a $10,000
cash prize.  It took the machine less than 3 days to complete the
challenge, shattering the previous record of 39 days set by a massive
network of tens of thousands of computers.  The research results are
fully documented in a book published this week by EFF and O'Reilly and
Associates, entitled "Cracking DES: Secrets of Encryption Research,
Wiretap Politics, and Chip Design."

"Producing a workable policy for encryption has proven a very hard
political challenge.  We believe that it will only be possible to
craft good policies if all the players are honest with one another and
the public," said John Gilmore, EFF co-founder and project leader.  "When
the government won't reveal relevant facts, the private sector must
independently conduct the research and publish the results so that we
can all see the social trade-offs involved in policy choices."

The nonprofit foundation designed and built the EFF DES Cracker to
counter the claim made by U.S. government officials that governments
cannot decrypt information when protected by DES, or that it would
take multimillion-dollar networks of computers months to decrypt one
message.  "The government has used that claim to justify policies of
weak encryption and 'key recovery,' which erode privacy and security
in the digital age," said EFF Executive Director Barry Steinhardt.  It
is now time for an honest and fully informed debate, which we believe
will lead to a reversal of these policies."

"EFF has proved what has been argued by scientists for twenty years,
that DES can be cracked quickly and inexpensively," said Gilmore.
"Now that the public knows, it will not be fooled into buying products
that promise real privacy but only deliver DES.  This will prevent
manufacturers from buckling under government pressure to 'dumb down'
their products, since such products will no longer sell."  Steinhardt
added, "If a small nonprofit can crack DES, your competitors can too.
Five years from now some teenager may well build a DES Cracker as her
high school science fair project."

The Data Encryption Standard, adopted as a federal standard in 1977 to
protect unclassified communications and data, was designed by IBM and
modified by the National Security Agency.  It uses 56-bit keys,
meaning a user must employ precisely the right combination of 56 1s
and 0s to decode information correctly.  DES accounted for more than
$125 million annually in software and hardware sales, according to a
1993 article in "Federal Computer Week."  Trusted Information Systems
reported last December that DES can be found in 281 foreign and 466
domestic encryption products, which accounts for between a third and
half of the market.

A DES cracker is a machine that can read information encrypted with
DES by finding the key that was used to encrypt that data.  DES
crackers have been researched by scientists and speculated about in
the popular literature on cryptography since the 1970s.  The design
of the EFF DES Cracker consists of an ordinary personal computer
connected to a large array of custom chips.  It took EFF less than
one year to build and cost less than $250,000.

This week marks the first public test of the EFF DES Cracker, which
won the latest DES-cracking speed competition sponsored by RSA
Laboratories (http://www.rsa.com/rsalabs/).  Two previous RSA
challenges proved that massive collections of computers coordinated
over the Internet could successfully crack DES.  Beginning Monday
morning, the EFF DES Cracker began searching for the correct answer to
this latest challenge, the RSA DES Challenge II-2.  In less than 3
days of searching, the EFF DES Cracker found the correct key.  "We
searched more than 88 billion keys every second, for 56 hours, before
we found the right 56-bit key to decrypt the answer to the RSA
challenge, which was 'It's time for those 128-, 192-, and 256-bit
keys,'" said Gilmore.

Many of the world's top cryptographers agree that the EFF DES Cracker
represents a fundamental breakthrough in how we evaluate computer
security and the public policies that control its use.  "With the
advent of the EFF DES Cracker machine, the game changes forever," said
Whitfield Diffie, Distinguished Engineer at Sun Microsystems and famed
co-inventor of public key cryptography.  "Vast Internet collaborations
cannot be concealed and so they cannot be used to attack real, secret
messages.  The EFF DES Cracker shows that it is easy to build search
engines that can."

"The news is not that a DES cracker can be built; we've known that for
years," said Bruce Schneier, the President of Counterpane Systems.
"The news is that it can be built cheaply using off-the-shelf technology
and minimal engineering, even though the department of Justice and the FBI
have been denying that this was possible."  Matt Blaze, a cryptographer
at AT&T Labs, agreed: "Today's announcement is significant because it
unambiguously demonstrates that DES is vulnerable, even to attackers with
relatively modest resources.  The existence of the EFF DES Cracker proves
that the threat of "brute force" DES key search is a reality.  Although
the cryptographic community has understood for years that DES keys are
much too small, DES-based systems are still being designed and used
today.  Today's announcement should dissuade anyone from using DES."

EFF and O'Reilly and Associates have published a book about the EFF
DES Cracker, "Cracking DES: Secrets of Encryption Research, Wiretap
Politics, and Chip Design."  The book contains the complete design
details for the EFF DES Cracker chips, boards, and software.  This
provides other researchers with the necessary data to fully reproduce,
validate, and/or improve on EFF's research, an important step in the
scientific method.  The book is only available on paper because
U.S. export controls on encryption potentially make it a crime to
publish such information on the Internet.

EFF has prepared a background document on the EFF DES Cracker, which
includes the foreword by Whitfield Diffie to "Cracking DES."  See
http://www.eff.org/descracker/.  The book can be ordered for worldwide
delivery from O'Reilly & Associates at http://www.ora.com/catalog/crackdes,
+1 800 998 9938, or +1 707 829 0515.

                              **********

The Electronic Frontier Foundation is one of the leading civil liberties
organizations devoted to ensuring that the Internet remains the world's
first truly global vehicle for free speech, and that the privacy and
security of all on-line communication is preserved.  Founded in 1990 as a
nonprofit, public interest organization, EFF is based in San Francisco,
California.  EFF maintains an extensive archive of information on
encryption policy, privacy, and free speech at http://www.eff.org.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: cwci@d-int.com
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 06:51:27 -0700 (PDT)
To: cwci@d-int.com
Subject: VERY  IMPORTANT !!!
Message-ID: <032c64945061178POPSRVRES@popline.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Dear Friend:

This is an extremely IMPORTANT announcement for you!

iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
                       IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT
                       IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT
                       '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
                       Your Future May Depend on it!!!
iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii

BUT FIRST, please read the following Editorial Excerpts from some 
important publications in the United States: 


New York Times:   "In concluding our review of financial organizxations
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''        to effect change in the 90's, special attention should
be called to 'World Currency Cartel' organization based in California. The
members of this organization are amassing hundreds of millions of dollars
in the currency market using a very LEGAL method which has NEVER
been divulged to the general public. While their purpose is not yet known,
their presence has most certainly been felt".

NBC Nightly News:   "Members of the World Currency Cartel organization,
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''        who always keep Low Profile of themselves, are some
of the most powerful and wealthiest people in this hemisphere".

More Excerpts later, but first let us give you this "Important Announcement":
```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
We are glad to announce that for the very first time, the World Currency
Cartel organization will instruct a LIMITED number of people worldwide on
HOW TO CONVERT $25 INTO ONE HUNDRED OF LEGAL CURRENCY.

We will transact the first conversion for you, after that you can quickly and
easily do this on your own hundreds or even thousands of times each and
every month. TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THIS "SECRET FLAW" !
                     ==================================

It is even more explosive than we have yet disclosed. While currency does
fluctuates daily, we can show you HOW TO CONVERT $99 INTO $580 as
many times as you want. That means, you will be able to CONVERT $99
American Legal Currency Dollars for $580 OF THE SAME. You can do this
as many times as you wish, every day, every week, every month. All very
LEGALLY and effortlessly!

It only takes about 5 to 10 minutes each time you do this. You can do this
from your home, your office or even while travelling. All you need is an access
to a phone line and an address. Best of all, you can do this from ANY CITY
ON THIS EARTH!!!

Again, we must reiterate, anyone can do this and the source is Never-Ending.
For as long as the global financial community continues to use different curr-
encies with varying exchange rate, this "SECRET FLAW" will exist.
                                                           ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
As we have said earlier, we will do the first transaction for you and will also 
show you exactly how to do this on your own over and over again.

The amount of exchange you would do each time is entirely up to you.
Working just 2 to 10 hours a week, you can soon join the list of Millionaires
who do  this on a daily  basis  several  times  a day. The transaction is so 
simple that even a high school kid  can do it!

We at the World Currency Cartel organization would like to see a uniform
global currency backed by Gold. But, until then, we will allow a LIMITED
number of individuals worldwide to share in the Unlimited Profits provided
for by the world currency differentials.

We will espouse no more political views nor will we ask you to do so. We 
can say  however,  that  our  parent  organization  Diamond  International
benefits greatly by the knowledge being shared as we ourselves alongwith
YOU benefit likewise. Your main concern surely will be, how you will benefit.

As soon as you become a member, you can start making transanctions
from your home, office, by telephone or through the mail  and even while
travelling. As said earlier, we will do the first transanction for you and 
will show you exactly how to do this on your own over and over again.

No one can stop you from earning hundreds of thousands and even millions
of dollars each year for as long as this "SECRET FLAW" exists.
                                                       ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
Don't  believe us, experience it for yourself!
================================       Unlike anyone else, we will
assure you a great financial freedom and you will add to our quickly growing
base of supporters and you may join the list of Millionaires being created 
using the "SECRET FLAW" in the world currency market.
              ==============

DON'T ENVY US, JOIN US TODAY!!!
iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii           

There is a one time membership fee of only $195.00. BUT, if you join us by
AUGUST 10, 1998; which is our company's  2nd  Anniversarry date, you can
join us for only $35 administrative cost. Your important documents, instructions,
contact name & addresses, phone numbers and all other pertinent information
will be mailed to you immediately. So, take advantage of our Anniversarry date
and join us today.

If you are replying  AFTER  AUGUST 10, 1998; you must pay $195.00 for the 
membership fee. NO EXCEPTIONS and no more e-mail enquiries please!

Upon becoming a member, you promise to keep all infos CONFIDENTIAL.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Should you choose to cancell your membership for any reason, you must
return all documents for a refund within 60 days.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

IMPORTANT:
*****************
1.....Write your name & mailing address VERY CLEARLY on paper
2..... Below your address, please write your E-mail address (Optional)
3..... At the top Left Hand corner, write the word "New Member"
4..... Attach a CHECK or M.O. for $35 plus $3 for postage & shipping
        (TOTAL = US$ 38.00)
5..... Please make the Check/M.O. payable to "Diamond  Int." and mail to:
        
                                      DIAMOND  INTERNATIONAL
                                      9903  SANTA  MONICA  BLVD;
                                      SUITE  #  405
                                      BEVERLY  HILLS,
                                      CA 90212.     U.S.A.

( Outside  U.S.A.  Must add  US$10  EXTRA  for  shipping). US$ FUNDS ONLY!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Here are some more Editorial Excerpts:

Wall Street :          "A discreet group of Americans, operating under the guise
                             of World Currency Cartel have recently begun making
rumbles in the world finance market. While at this time, their game is not
completely known, they certainly be watched by those making major moves
in the currency contracts".

Financial Week :    "Watch them, monitor them, extract their knowledge
                             and try to become one of them. That is the soundest 
financial advice we could give to someone".

National Business Weekly :  "While this reporter has been left in the cold 
                                          as to its method of operation, we have been
able to confirm that World Currency Cartel and its members are literally 
amassing a great furtune overnight".

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ E N D $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$    
 

                                                           








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: zxq_5@hotmail.com
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 11:17:11 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: 2 Free copies...
Message-ID: <199807171817.LAA02198@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED/EUREKA! 
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 03:05:53 -0700 (PDT)
To: All Eureka/Stuffed Subscribers: ;
Subject: Sex industry takes on US govt/Hormones improve whore moans http://stuffed.net
Message-ID: <19980717084625.28072.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/html

Click for STUFFED: Friday July 17 1998


Click here for STUFFED, the new daily
 tabloid news, humor and babes newspaper from Eureka!

This is a combined text/html email. If your email client can
display html web pages  you probably won't see this text but
should see the front cover of today's issue above, which you
should  click on to read.  If you cannot see the cover, your
email client either cannot display html or its' options have
been set to  ignore html images.  In which case,  please ...
Click here to read today's! --> http://stuffed.net/98/7/17/

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: BUFFU@aol.com
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 08:37:02 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Civil disobediance only gets you an invitation to the anarchist's big bash
Message-ID: <89904731.35af6f4d@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


     We are sending you an invitation to be one of our special guests this
year, big harry ass lawsuits are always of interest.  Bring a friend if you
like, but I have to warn you, Liberatarians are not welcome.  This years menu
includes red meat and poptarts.  Clothing is optional.

                Sincerely,

                   Beth




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: KMHAsfaha@aol.com
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 10:26:46 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: kmha@aol.com
Message-ID: <90f10915.35af77d7@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


please i need some suggestions with topics for my informative speech, or may
some 
infromative speeches already outlined to use it for refrence.
    thankyou.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Jean-Francois Avon" 
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 10:46:30 -0700 (PDT)
To: "Cypherpunks" 
Subject: New Computer Software for Police
Message-ID: <199807171800.OAA05948@cti06.citenet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 18:14:18 -0600
From: rmcreat@istar.ca (BC NFA)
Subject: New Computer Software for Police

NATIONAL FIREARMS ASSOCIATION
BRITISH COLUMBIA BRANCH

Announced on the 6 o'clock news July 15, 1998.

I ask you to read this please; while reading keep in mind
this is easily adaptable to observe firearms owners patterns.

Const. Oscar Ramos and Const. Raymond Payette of the
Vancouver City Police made announcement of their new
"Shame the Johns" software.  It is designed to share
information with all levels of police in the Lower Mainland
and elsewhere.

This software allows the tracking of vehicle movements
and buying patterns.  It allows police to predict when and
where you will be at anytime.  It is designed to collect
name, date of birth, license number, discription of vehicle
- -and-other-information.  It will automatically generate
a letter to send to the persons home informing other
family members of the persons activities.

Michelle Traver
SSAC
NFA-BC
1706 E. 1st Ave., Van., BC  V5N 1B1
1877-254-2100, local 604-254-2100
fax 604-255-2202






Jean-Francois Avon, B.Sc. Physics, Montreal, Canada
  DePompadour, Société d'Importation Ltée
     Limoges fine porcelain and french crystal
  JFA Technologies, R&D physicists & engineers
     Instrumentation & control, LabView programming
PGP keys: http://bs.mit.edu:8001/pks-toplev.html
PGP ID:C58ADD0D:529645E8205A8A5E F87CC86FAEFEF891 
PGP ID:5B51964D:152ACCBCD4A481B0 254011193237822C


From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: The New York Times on the Web 
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 11:16:53 -0700 (PDT)
To: CUSTOMER@carta.nytimes.com
Subject: Great News...
Message-ID: <199807171854.NAA3471112@inbox.nytimes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Dear Subscriber,

The New York Times on the Web has made it easier for you to stay
current and to make your way around our site, with a newly redesigned
home page and the addition of two features, Quick News and Page One Plus.

*** OUR NEW HOME PAGE  ***

CONTINUOUS NEWS. Our new home page gives you an instant look at the
top news from The Times, with updates throughout the day reflecting
news judgments from the editorial team of The Times on the Web. Breaking
news from the Associated Press, refreshed every 10 minutes, gives you
an immediate take on the changing world. And a new ticker brings you
a quick look at the current state of the market.

IMPROVED NAVIGATION. We've also made it simpler to get around our site,
with an easy to find, easier to use navigation panel that takes you
directly to the major news and feature sections with fewer clicks.

MORE LINKS TO MORE STORIES. Top features from around the site are now
highlighted on the home page as well, giving you faster access to news
and features from The New York Times.

http://www.nytimes.com


*** QUICK NEWS  ***

QUICK NEWS. Our new Quick News page is your best source for what's
happening right now. Regularly updated by the editors of The Times
on the Web, this page highlights and summarizes the top stories
developing at the moment, with links to other major news of the day.

http://www.nytimes.com/yr/mo/day/late/index.html


***  PAGE ONE PLUS ***

PAGE ONE PLUS. We've improved the presentation of the articles that
appear on the front page of the printed New York Times, with quick
links to the major sections of the newspaper.

http://www.nytimes.com/yr/mo/day/front/


We hope you'll make a point of visiting the site soon and letting
us know what you think.

Sincerely,
Rich Meislin
Editor in Chief
The New York Times Electronic Media Company



***********************************************************************
When you registered with The New York Times on the Web you indicated
that you wished to receive information about new features and services.
For assistance please consult The New York Times on the Web's Help
Center, where you can remove yourself from the mailing list on the
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Please do not reply to this e-mail.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Charlie_Kaufman@iris.com
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 12:39:12 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: GAK 4 -- For whom the Doorbell tolls
Message-ID: <85256644.006C6CB1.00@arista.iris.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I believe there is nothing really good, really evil, or even really novel
about the Cisco et al proposal. That makes it hard for a technical
community like this one to evaluate it.

The controversy should not be around the technology, but around the
spin-doctoring. It is both wrong and dangerous to portray this as a step
forward in resolving the crypto export debate. It is comparable to the
Lotus Notes 64/40 encryption scheme or the Microsoft/Netscape and later
Lotus scheme for making strong cryptography available between exportable
browsers and international banks. These may be significant to some
customers and to some vendors, but they are not steps toward resolving the
controversy. They are more likely to extend the controversy, since they
decrease the urgency of the debate for some of the players.

There is no reason to believe this controversy will be settled anytime
soon. The battle continues with no plausible resolution because both sides
believe they will win if they hold out long enough. Civil Libertarians
believe that the public will not stand for the sorts of draconian controls
that will be necessary to enable universal snooping and that the courts
will rule such controls unconstitutional. The argument against this view is
that the American people are sheep and the Constitution says what the
Supreme Court says it does and have you looked at the makeup of the Supreme
Court lately? Big Brother thinks he will win because he has the pictures.
And because he always does.

So think of these confusing technological tweaks as sending food aid to the
starving peasants in the war zone. It might extend the war by masking some
of its most painful effects, and hence might in the long run be a bad
thing. But the effect is ambiguous at worst, and it's difficult to argue
with the humanitarian groups that want to do it.

I was involved with choosing the wording of the Lotus press release around
64/40. It was a constant effort to restrain the enthusiasm of the
marketeers who wanted to talk about how wonderful it was. I think we
overall did a good job of making it clear that this was not a great thing,
and that we hoped it would not be a long term thing. It was a small
improvement for a limited set of customers while we continued the war.

If you read Cisco's publications, they have been fairly restrained in their
enthusiasm. But some of their partners and some of the press coverage has
gotten completely out of hand. The most offensive testimonial is from
Novell:

"This solution represents a real step forward for U.S. encryption policy,"
said Eric Schmidt, CEO of Novell. "At last, we have a market solution that
meets the needs of consumers, corporations, law enforcement and national
security."

This seems like a case where we need to shoot the messenger.

     --Charlie Kaufman






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Charlie_Kaufman@iris.com
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 12:39:47 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: EFF Announces GAK 5
Message-ID: <85256644.006C6F08.00@arista.iris.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Given that the EFF has demonstrated hardware capable of breaking DES in a
short period of time, they should now form an industry alliance asking for
general export permission for DES. If law enforcement ever needs to access
any encrypted data, they can bring it to EFF, along with a court order, and
EFF will "recover" the key. This should be allowed under the existing Key
Recovery exception, which says things are exportable if you provide the
government with a mechanism for getting at the keys!

Of course, some will claim that EFF is selling out to Big Brother by
manufacturing this technology, and that granting export permission for DES
will only prolong the pain of export controls. Others will claim that it is
wonderful that we have finally developed a technology that solves once and
for all the crypto debate. Flames will ensue.

[Note: In case it is not obvious to everyone, this note is a lame attempt
at sarcasm. Please don't hang me.]

     --Charlie Kaufman






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Jean-Francois Avon" 
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 13:26:02 -0700 (PDT)
To: "Cypherpunks" 
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199807172040.QAA09454@cti06.citenet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


The original paper is available at:
http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/146/july98/2.html

For any precise analysis, use the original document at the aforementionned address.



------------- begin "cut and paste" text ---------------
White Paper

The Export of Certain Networking Encryption Products under ELAs As An Alternative to
"Key Escrow/Recovery Products" under KMI: A Networking Industry White Paper on
Encryption Export Controls

by
Elizabeth Kaufman, Cisco Systems, Inc. and
Roszel C. Thomsen II, Thomsen & Burke LLP


     Encryption Press Release
     PR Contact: Doug Wills, (408) 527-9475, dwills@cisco.com



Executive Summary

The Clinton Administration's export control policy is designed to promote development of cryptographic products that provide law enforcement agencies with
access to encrypted data. Products that implement key escrow/recovery to provide such access are broadly exportable under License Exception KMI.
Although some customers have indicated interest in products that implement key escrow/recovery for stored data, customers generally oppose mandatory key
escrow/recovery for data in transit. This White Paper proposes that certain networking encryption products that provide for authorized access without key
recovery should also be eligible for broad export under appropriate Encryption Licensing Arrangements.

The Administration's export control policy must also reflect the equities of the intelligence community. Therefore, the proposed Encryption Licensing
Arrangements should be approved subject to riders and conditions designed to prevent the export of strong encryption products to military end-users, for
military end-uses, or to any government ministry, agency or department of certain countries.

The operational characteristics of networking encryption products to be eligible for export under appropriate Encryption Licensing Arrangements are not
complex. Simply stated, the operator action model delivers a 'private door-bell,' not a 'house-key' to parties lawfully seeking access to data. Qualifying
products must incorporate an operator-controlled management interface that enables dynamic, real-time access to specified network traffic prior to
encryption, or after decryption, at a designated access point.

Background

In Executive Order 13026 of November 15, 1996, President Clinton said that cryptographic products implementing the Key Management Infrastructure
("KMI") would be eligible for export without licenses after a one-time technical review.1 On December 30, 1996, the Commerce Department's Bureau of
Export Administration ("BXA") published an interim rule amending the Export Administration Regulations ("EAR", 15 CFR Part 730 et seq.) that implements
Executive Order 13026.2

The better-known provision of this interim rule states that "key escrow or key recovery products" are exportable under License Exception KMI. The term
"key escrow or key recovery products" is defined in great detail in Section 740.8(d)(1)(i) and Supplement No. 4 to Part 742 of the EAR.

A lesser-known provision of this interim rule states that "other recoverable encryption products" shall receive "favorable consideration" for export. The term
"other recoverable encryption items" is defined briefly in Section 740.8(d)(1)(ii) of the EAR, and the type of "favorable consideration" that should be accorded
to such products is not defined at all. The ambiguity of this provision provides an opportunity to explore new approaches to exporting cryptographic products.

Overview

Industry has studied the technical, market and policy issues surrounding the KMI. These studies suggest that there may be market demand for products
implementing key escrow/recovery techniques for retrieval of encrypted stored data. Such products would also appear to meet law enforcement's
requirements for retrieval of encrypted stored data. However, no market demand exists for products implementing key escrow/recovery techniques for
retrieval of encrypted transient data. Eminent cryptographers have argued that key escrow/recovery techniques create unnecessary risks for encrypted
transient data.3 The National Security Agency ("NSA") has confirmed these findings.4

The networking industry proposes that certain networking encryption products described in this White Paper may receive wide market acceptance and meet
the requirements of law enforcement with respect to transient data without implementing key recovery. The intelligence community's equities, though not
reflected in the EAR, must be respected as well.

Analysis of Market Requirements

In order to meet market requirements, networking encryption products must: (1) provide strong security, (2) adhere to open standards, and (3) support an
operator-controlled management mechanism to specify encrypted flows.

Strong security is essential for products that encrypt transient data. Customers, particularly service providers, have stated repeatedly and emphatically that they
will not purchase products that encrypt transient data, if those products also facilitate unauthorized, covert surveillance by third parties. The government should
encourage the deployment of products that implement strong security, because such products will deter certain kinds of crimes, like theft of trade secrets by
third parties.

Deployment of products that encrypt transient data requires open standards. Without open standards, different vendors' products will not inter-operate, and
broad deployment will not be possible. The government should encourage the deployment of standards-compliant products, because it has a shared interest in
a common cross-vendor solution and the rapid deployment of strong new viable technologies.

Some customers also have indicated that operator-control of encryption flows is a useful feature for network diagnostics and reporting, and for allowing the
efficient transmission of non-sensitive data. Customers in regulated industries, such as banking and securities, also may need to monitor their employees'
communications from time-to-time. Most customers also desire the ability to respond to a court order without exposing all of their data across the Internet or
the public switched telephone network.

Analysis of Government Requirements

The EAR describes key escrow/recovery products primarily in terms of their utility to law enforcement. The government's interests, however, are not
monolithic. The law enforcement and intelligence communities have different requirements.

Law enforcement's main priority has been to establish procedures for access to encrypted data in transit that are comparable to existing procedures for voice
communications and therefore capable of introduction into evidence in a court of competent jurisdiction. The technical characteristics of the networking
encryption products described in this White Paper will be of greatest interest to law enforcement, because these technical characteristics are the key to
meeting law enforcement's requirements for access to plaintext.

The intelligence community, on the other hand, has not shown much confidence that key escrow/recovery will meet its requirements since the secret Skipjack
algorithm and governmental escrow agents featured in the original Clipper Chip were abandoned in favor of vendor-selected algorithms and commercial
escrow agents. Its primary concern currently appears to be the broad deployment of encryption technology that does not interfere with current best
operational practices. In this regard, the technical characteristics of qualifying products may be of secondary importance to the intelligence community, and
proposed riders and conditions on the ELA may be of greater importance. 

An Alternative to Key Escrow/Recovery for Networking Products

Although key escrow/recovery is not acceptable for data in transit, some customers require a mechanism that can reveal real-time plaintext for network
diagnostics and reporting, the transmission of non-sensitive data, occasional employee monitoring, and to support law enforcement. The proposed alternative
to key escrow/recovery does not require weakened cryptography, yet provides access similar to that currently available for voice communications.

Packet switched data networks handle traffic differently than circuit-switched voice networks. Circuit switched voice networks are characterized by the
opening of a dedicated circuit where communications are transferred in "real time." Packet switched networks are a statistically-multiplexed environment where
communications are routed packet-by-packet, so that data is fragmented but delivered in near real time. In spite of these differences, packet switched data
networks can, with some limitations, enable real-time access to plaintext. The proposed alternative to key recovery provides customers with full-strength
encryption, while simultaneously enabling the dynamic creation of an access point that allows real-time interception of plaintext based upon the target's source
or destination, whether the product is located within an enterprise or at a service provider's premises.

Two Access Scenarios: Access in the Enterprise, and Access at a Service Provider's Premises

The access point concept is not a perfect solution for all products. For example, it does not easily apply to user-to-user desktop applications. However, it
does appear to offer a reasonable alternative to key recovery on many classes of network applications and platforms. Specifically, it is a viable approach to
access to plaintext for devices where the individual responsible for data creation/reception is not the same individual responsible for platform operation. Such
devices constitute a significant percentage of the available networked platforms, including firewalls, routers, switches and other networking devices.

Classes of Network Devices

            Self-managed
                              3rd party-managed
 Single-user
            Home PC
                              Enterprise desktop
                              Enterprise telephone
                              Set-top box
                              Service Provider VPN
                              Outsourced firewall
 Multi-user
            Enterprise network
            Enterprise server
            Multi-user workstation

Can provide access to plaintext without the end user's knowledge

Meeting Law Enforcement Requirements

In order to be exportable under the proposed Encryption Licensing Arrangements, networking encryption products must contain a management interface that
dynamically controls encryption by source and destination address, and by network protocol, to enable real-time access to selected network traffic prior to
encryption or after decryption. The operational characteristics of these products may be summarized below:

     a) A qualifying network encryption product must incorporate an encryption management interface that:
     i) is remotely accessible;
     ii) controls the encryption configuration of the platform;
     iii) configures encryption policy by source and destination network address;
     iv) enables a remote operator to modify the encryption configuration dynamically;
     v) enables the interception of network traffic between a specific source and destination either prior to encryption or after decryption at a defined access
     point;

     b) A qualifying network encryption product may:
     i) be hardware, software, or a combination of hardware and software;
     ii) encrypt any network protocol and/or at any network layer;
     iii) support any
          a) encryption algorithm
          b) key length
          c) key generation mechanism
          d) key management scheme;
     iv) be standalone, or integrated with other functions;
     v) be a single user, multi-user or infrastructure platform;
     vi) enable interception on the wire, on media (such as a hard disk), via a specialized communications port, or at another defined access point.

Two figures that illustrate how qualifying products may provide access to plaintext are set forth in Figures 1 and 2 of this paper.

Meeting Intelligence Community's Requirements

Current best operational practices are not widely understood by the public, and they may be compromised by the broad deployment of networking encryption
products, whether of US or of foreign manufacture. However, the possible loss of access to plaintext communications due to use of commercial cryptography
must be analyzed within the broader framework of advances in new technologies. As one eminent cryptographer testified before the Senate Judiciary
Subcommittee on Technology and the Law, "Advances in emitter identification, network penetration techniques, and the implementation of cryptanalytic or
crypto-diagnostic operations within intercept equipment are likely to provide more new sources of intelligence than are lost as a result of commercial use of
cryptography."5

In further recognition of and deference to the intelligence community's equities, industry is not requesting authorization to export products with key lengths
exceeding 56 bits to military end-users or for military end-uses, or to any government ministry, agency or department of the countries listed in "Tier 3" (as
defined for purposes of computer export controls). Exports of products exceeding 56 bits to these end-users would require a separate license issued by BXA
after full inter-agency review under applicable Executive Orders. The differences between the proposed ELA and export under License Exception KMI are
summarized in the chart below:

                 License Exception KMI
                                                        Proposed ELA
 Eligible Products
                 Key recovery products
                                                        Products providing access to plaintext at intermediate stations of the data network
 Territory
                 All except Cuba, Iran, Iraq, Libya, North Korea,
                 Sudan and Syria
                                                        Same as KMI
 Eligible End-users
                 All end-users are eligible
                                                        (1) All end-users are eligible for 56 bit products,
                                                        HOWEVER,
                                                        (2) Products exceeding 56 bits would not be eligible for government agencies and
                                                        military end-users in Tier 3 countries
 Duration
                 Indefinite
                                                        Three years, renewable in three year increments
 Reporting
                 Biannual
                                                        Same as KMI


                                                     Conclusion

This White Paper has defined a class of networking encryption products that should be authorized for export under appropriate Encryption Licensing
Arrangements. The operational characteristics of qualifying products ensure that law enforcement will continue to enjoy authorized real-time access to plaintext

References:
1. 61 FR 58767.
2. 61 FR 68572.
3. The Risk of Key Recovery, Key Escrow and Trusted Third Party Encryption,
H.Abelson et al. on June, 1998.
4. Threat and Vulnerability Model for Key Recovery (KR), NSA, X3
on February 18, 1998.
5. Key Escrow: Its Impact and Alternatives, testimony of Dr. Whitfield Diffie,
Distinguished Engineer, Sun Microsystems, Inc. before the Senate Judiciary
Subcommittee on Technology and Law on May 3, 1994.

Cisco Systems

Cisco Systems, Inc. (NASDAQ: CSCO) is the worldwide leader in networking for the Internet. News and information are available at
http://www.cisco.com.

For more information visit Cisco PR Contacts



All contents copyright (c) 1992--1998 Cisco Systems Inc. Important notices.
---------- end of "cut and paste" text ---------------

Jean-Francois Avon, B.Sc. Physics, Montreal, Canada
  DePompadour, Société d'Importation Ltée
     Limoges fine porcelain and french crystal
  JFA Technologies, R&D physicists & engineers
     Instrumentation & control, LabView programming
PGP keys: http://bs.mit.edu:8001/pks-toplev.html
PGP ID:C58ADD0D:529645E8205A8A5E F87CC86FAEFEF891
PGP ID:5B51964D:152ACCBCD4A481B0 254011193237822C






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 13:38:09 -0700 (PDT)
To: dcsb@ai.mit.edu
Subject: John Gilmore and the Great Internet Snake Drive
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Congrats to Mr. Gilmore, EFF, et. al. for a very impressive DES crack.

It seems that Gilmore and Moore's Law have just turned the
once-respected DES into cryptographic snake-oil. He keeps hurting
snakes like that, he's gonna get himself canonized. ;-).


Seriously. Many thanks to Mr. Gilmore for proving, once again, that
lobbying is pointless, and that physics is not optional.

Outstanding. Marvellous.

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.5.5

iQEVAwUBNa+x3cUCGwxmWcHhAQFZAQgArKCN418IA1MXwfpXeJ4IF93j9f3G3skH
OotWP5dcoHOaUvbgTcOWP9YBAj77jzaazrtfK3wJD634ehLbf5N+gzmBHQVnXtXR
Vf/JMe24EyI3xCqvRptSTtrik8d+oi3Wy7ZZEwBzLPd0A+XE4LdsClgE2C4ns3ZK
Lq12mUmRQaZvc4++oakIAOT+Llx9TnnUHYqVMSjDT8QJoJ7vEFBEqcOea1Qzk1u9
leZlyrLs1ivbhcthXNBOyhN6RTwJgRyF3nFxpl/uY0tEvNvgFl+/aZZTJkwvvhmm
0MTSfzFfy9I+7BT5FD1iFC+i8JAVd4CDeI+9I6c6/LCAppfrKy5FBg==
=Zeyp
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The Philodox Symposium on Digital Bearer Transaction Settlement
  July 23-24, 1998: 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Jean-Francois Avon" 
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 13:53:06 -0700 (PDT)
To: "acardin@v-wave.com>
Subject: Politicians...
Message-ID: <199807172107.RAA09933@cti06.citenet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



you wrote in the Canadian Firearms Digest V2 #498

>Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 09:33:52 -0600
>From: Gordon 
>Subject: politiians
>
>Politicians and diapers should be changed regularly. and for the same
>reasons!

ROTFL!

I took the liberty to Cc this message to a few friends.  :-)

Mind if I use it in one of my .sig file?

Ciao

jfa







Jean-Francois Avon, B.Sc. Physics, Montreal, Canada
  DePompadour, Société d'Importation Ltée
     Limoges fine porcelain and french crystal
  JFA Technologies, R&D physicists & engineers
     Instrumentation & control, LabView programming
PGP keys: http://bs.mit.edu:8001/pks-toplev.html
PGP ID:C58ADD0D:529645E8205A8A5E F87CC86FAEFEF891 
PGP ID:5B51964D:152ACCBCD4A481B0 254011193237822C


From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: CTIA Daily News 
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 16:20:54 -0700 (PDT)
To: CTIA Daily News 
Subject: CTIA Daily News from WOW-COM - July 17, 1998
Message-ID: <199807172205.RAA30430@mailstrom.revnet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




=============================================
Welcome to today's edition of the CTIA Daily
News
from WOW-COM.  Please click on the icon /
attachment
for the most important news in wireless
communications today.

WIRELESS IT '98, The Next Generation in
Personal
Computing & Communications October
12-14,
Las Vegas, Nevada Call (202) 785-0081 for more
information!
=============================================
 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Gilmore 
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 17:11:31 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks, cryptography@c2.net
Subject: ZDTV and CNN coverage of DES Cracker
Message-ID: <199807180011.RAA02044@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


ZDTV will have me on the 8PM news tonight, and Barry Steinhardt on
their "Silicon Spin" program today.

CNN took pictures earlier today, I don't know when they'll use them.

	John




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 17:53:58 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: FWD: new MIT SPKI software release
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980717173912.00929100@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


fredette@theory.lcs.mit.edu (Matt Fredette) writes:
==================================================
Subject: new MIT software release

A new release of the MIT SDSI/SPKI C software distribution is 
available.  Go to

http://theory.lcs.mit.edu/~cis/sdsi.html

and follow the software distribution links in the paragraph about 
SDSI/SPKI 2.0.  Note that you must be a US or Canadian citizen, etc., 
to get this software.  

The following binary builds are available:

sdsi20-0.4.0-sparc-sun-sunos4.1.4.tar.gz
sdsi20-0.4.0-sparc-sun-solaris2.5.1.tar.gz
sdsi20-0.4.0-i386-pc-solaris2.6.tar.gz
sdsi20-0.4.0-i386-unknown-netbsd1.1.tar.gz
sdsi20-0.4.0-mips-sgi-irix5.3.tar.gz

An Intel Linux build will hopefully be available soon.

These are all built from the source distribution:

sdsi20-0.4.0.tar.gz

As usual, many bugs were fixed in this release.  See ChangeLog in the source
distribution for the details.

More general notes from the 0.4.0 README:

Release 0.4.0
-------------

This code now requires (sequence )s to conform to the expected grammer
in the structure-06 draft, i.e., it supports the macro "def" and "ref"
mechanism, and, if threshold subject support is compiled in, the
"process-threshold" mechanism.  It will reject sequences that use
the old (do hash ) or old (do k-of-n) directives.

DSA support has been finished, and is compiled into the library by
default.  This means that SDSI2_FEATURE_STRUCTURE6_SIGS is defined by
default; since this changes the grammar for signatures to match what
is expected in the structure-06 draft, earlier signatures will break.
See the applicable blurb in the 0.3.0 notes of the README for details.

PGP support has been extended to handle what I believe to be the
majority of PGP 5.0 keyrings.  If your PGP private keyring uses IDEA
or CAST5 with MD5 or SHA1 to seal the secrets, sdsi2sh should be able
to read it.  PGP DSA keys are fully supported.

The SDSI distribution now includes MIT-written multi-precision integer
and DES libraries.  This means that you don't have to track down and
compile GNU MP and Eric Young's libdes if you don't want to.  If you
do still want to compile with one or both of these other libraries,
you can - see the main documentation for instructions on when you may
want to, and how.

The reduction code has been completely rewritten.  It's separated out
from sequences, in its own little internal API.  You step a reduction
with rules until you run out of them, and then you can get out the
conclusion that results from those rules.  It's possible to reduce
a whole (sequence ) into its equivalent (cert ), or to just reduce
two (cert )s into one.

The cache API has changed considerably, to present the face of a
generic S-expression cache.  sdsi2_cache_add_search_term is a single
function used for incrementally building a cache query, that works a
lot more intuitively than the old add_search_.._term functions did.
The actual cache format has not changed.

The ugly story of unparsing S-expressions, or filling a sdsi2Sexp, has
been completely retold.  It is now possible to allocate a new
sdsi2Stream, simply "push" canonical elements (like whole sdsi2Sexp *,
sdsi2ByteString *, integers, etc.) onto it, and then just call
sdsi2_sexp_parse to have it parse that into a new sdsi2Sexp.

Two new commands have been added to sdsi2sh: "load" and "save" allow
you to load a variable from and save a variable to a file.

Matt

-- 
Matt Fredette
fredette@bbnplanet.com, fredette@mit.edu, fredette@theory.lcs.mit.edu
http://mit.edu/fredette/www
"The first time the Rolling Stones played, three people came."






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: philo 
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 18:01:12 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: http://www.devoted.net/
Message-ID: <35AFF3E6.51E80BBC@devoted.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSqncrs@aol.com
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 16:44:08 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Politicians...
Message-ID: <2bc02f8e.35afe1a5@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


In a message dated 7/17/98 5:48:16 PM Central Daylight Time,
jf_avon@citenet.net quotes:

<< >Politicians and diapers should be changed regularly. and for the same
reasons! >>

It's the easy way out (and I mean DOWN and OUT)!  I mean, if we're simply
going to change them out everytime, why bother to figure out which ones aren't
evil/stupid (I mean, out of all those politicians, there's got to be 1 or 2!
I think. ;-) )?

See, if we just simply change politicians at every chance, then we throw the
baby out with the bathwater, so to speak.  The simple solutions aren't always
the best ones.

Stan,
http://members.aol.com/whtsametau/camel/index.htm





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Global Web Builders 
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 04:01:20 -0700 (PDT)
To: (Recipient list suppressed)
Subject: HANSON BEING BANNED: PLEASE ACT ON THIS EMAIL
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980717102002.0073f0f4@gwb.com.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Dear One Nation supporter in NSW,

Pauline Hanson has been banned from using council facilities in her
electorate of Blair.

The Labor-dominated Ipswich City Council, the heart of Pauline Hanson's seat
of Blair, has returned to their old politically motivated tricks against the
One Nation party.

With the recent Queensland State Election turning the mainstream parties on
their heads the word has gone out - do anything that you can to deny One
Nation their right to a "fair go".

The Council allowed One Nation to use their facilities after a 6 month long
ban following the breaking of a council hall window at the party's launch by
protesters in April 1997. The ban was imposed on the basis of "protecting
council staff from danger".

http://www.gwb.com.au/gwb/news/onenation/launch.html

An example of recent (1998) pre-state election use by Pauline Hanson of the
Ipswich City Council facilities can be seen at:

http://www.gwb.com.au/onenation/qldstate/polaunch/index.htm

at the above link Pauline Hanson launched One Nation's state policies
without any security problems or risk to council staff.

One Nation used Ipswich City Council facilities on several occasions this
year without any protesters even making an appearance.

The basis of "fair go" and "freedom of assembly" is equity in decision making. 

At a recent Labor Party meeting One Nation members demonstrated peacefully
outside the council venue yet no such threat or withholding of council
facilities to Labor has been suggested - nor should it.

Following the State Election the rules have apparently changed.

The Ipswich City Council this week rejected an application by Pauline
Hanson's One Nation to use council facilities on the basis of "concern for
the safety of staff".
The mayor of Ipswich, John Nugent, was one of those voting against One
Nation's use of council facilities.

This is laughable as the last time protesters appeared at a One Nation
meeting was over a year ago in June 1997.

One Nation has (to ensure council staff safety) offered to supply private
security and ensure that sufficient police are on standby - this offer has
been rejected.

The link below will take you to an image of one of the chief protagonists,
Councillor Paul Tully, a Labor supporter who has made it his life ambition
to destroy what Pauline Hanson and you stand for.

http://www.gwb.com.au/gwb/news/onenation/gold/tully.jpg

Can we let him win?

I don't think so.

I appeal to you to write, in the strongest terms possible, to the local
Ipswich paper, The Queensland Times.

Their email address is:

qt@gil.com.au

Remember to keep your letter to under 200 words to ensure publication.

Issues to look at:
==================

1) The damage to Ipswich's reputation through these undemocratic antics.
2) Freedom of speech.
3) Labor's underlying undemocratic motives.
4) What role the ratepayers who voted Hanson have been allowed in on this
decision by the Labor council?

I encourage you to send the Queensland Times an email letting them know how
YOU FEEL about the Ipswich City Council's decision to prevent Pauline Hanson
from using ratepayer's facilities.

GWB




Scott Balson





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: COMPUTERTIME12@yahoo.com
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 19:12:47 -0700 (PDT)
To: anyone@anywhere.com
Subject: EARN A PENTIUM II 300 MMX WITHOUT 1 PENNY OUT OF POCKET..
Message-ID: <199807180215.LAA01415@naka0.midland.co.jp>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC 
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 22:31:20 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Live At The CypherMore - SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS!!!
Message-ID: <009C955B.4C2DE0E0.1@west.cscwc.pima.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Live At The CypherMore East - THEM...LIVE! - SAHMD!!!
_____________________________________________________

Actually, the movie, produced in 1988, and released just
in time to throw the Author into a hysterical state of Termial
Paranoia, was called, "They Live, and still is. (called that,
I mean). 

[EditWhore's Node: The reason the Author never bothers to
 go back and correct his spelling, syntax (whatever that
 is) and miscarriage-returns of linguistic justice, is 
 that her mentor, who was as equally good a pitcher as she
 was a catcher, told her, "Never rewrite, the reader might
 be gaining on you."]
  
It was a dark and normal night...
Until the Author booted up SCO Xenix at 4 a.m. in a sleazy
little motel room in ButtFuck, North Dakota. Then, as the
Daemons, Zombies, Orphan Zombies and the dreaded Cron were
released to wreak their havoc in ToshibaWorld, in the heart
of the Author's 5200C portable computer, LadyLuck, not having
a date for the evening, intervened to provide mitigating
circumstances which would eventually become evidence in the
Court Of Public Opinion as to the mitigating circumstances
which needed to be considered before sentencing the Author
to a lifetime of Hard Labor, trying to give birth to a new
perceptive world-view paridigm in which WeTheSheeple felt
perfectly comfortable returning a judgement of, "Guilty,
by reason of insanity." (As well as a guilty verdict on the
misdemeanor charge of, "I don't care if the people from the
Justice Department *are* reaming you a new cornhole on my
living room floor, I don't want you using that kind of
language in front of my children.")


For the Author, as his (or her...or their) mind began to break
under the strain of trying to hold back the Forces of Evil
that escaped from Bell Laboratories, hidden in the carry-on
baggage of the Unix Operating System, the only hope of sanity
seemed to lie in turning on the BoobTube (even though they
visually bleep out the naked boobs on TV in North Dakota),
and trying to defend HimOrHer self with the technological
opiate of the asses...Gilligan's Island.

It was not to be...
Instead, despite the fact that TV goes off the air around
10 p.m. in the smaller northern states, the Author found
himself finding himself foundering in a flow of Taoist
synchronicity which goes far beyond the temporal concerns
of everyday life, resulting in him living a schizophrenic
existence, torn between Arizona and Saskatchewan, neither
of which adheres to the Daylight Saving Time standard that
decent, God-fearing Americans and Canadians hold sacred,
whereupon the movie, "They Live" sprung on to the Midget
Silver Screen sitting atop a faded yellow table with
cigarette burns around the edges, completely out of
visual harmony with the vile-green colored rug with a
multitude of cigarette burns dotting its nearly threadbare
surface.

The Author found HimOrHerSelf battling the Mutant Monsters
created by 'our engineers' talking to 'their engineers'
(without ever managing to discover why your hard drive only
crashes just before your job-performance review), as well
as simultaneously drinking in the sights and sounds of a
movie showing on a TV set which had not yet been plugged
in--a movie in which a pair of "men who love men, every
now and then" [WAS: Male Bonding In America - I Think Some
People Are Going Just A Little Too Far] found themselves,
on a dark and stormy night [(c) Snoopy], discovering a
box of dark glasses which enabled them to see the scum-
sucking aliens living in humanity's midst, without our
knowledge.
The Author, for the first time realizing the dire warning
hidden in ZZ Top's classic musical offering, 'Cheap Sun
Glasses,' decided that, given the fact that the theme of
his last music album, "Please! Stop Me Before I Sing 
Again," had been embraced by the music-loving public to
such a degree that he was hounded out of the industry,
SheOrHe's only realistic course of action, in order to
warn others about the frightening dangers to be found
lurking within the heart of the Unix Operating System,
was to use the Medium to proclaim the Message (even though,
according to Marshal McClueHandLuke, they are identical
twins, although in a microcosm-macrocosm sort of way,
like Danny DeVito and Arnold Schwartzenager).
Thus was born, "The Xenix Chainsaw Massacre - The True 
Story Of The InterNet - Part I."

The rest is history...
Well, not *all* of it is history, since we are currently
writing some of it, now...which you are reading...now.
And the rEvolution is NOW!, too, so... 

Lying Awake In Bed At 4 a.m. Burning Question #38679:
"Was the  key invented by a sorry, drunken
 asshole who could never keep track of the point he
 was trying to make?"

Wait here, I'll be back...

  
  
"Shit!"
  
"Fuck! Godamnn it!"
'o'  

OK, like I was saying...
MultiMedia...

The Author, in 1989, had discovered and explored the 
first, true VirtualRealityMultiMediaExperience, in
which HeOrShe could no longer distinguish between the
Medium, the Message, the Meaning, the MeanderingMind,
or the voices inside her head which told her that
the Messages From Mars coming through the fillings
in her teeth were FUD, disseminated by an insurance
sales activist with a hidden agenda.
Worried about the fact that some egoistical, elitist
fuckwad might, at some point in the future, try to
claim credit for the Author's discovery of MultiMedia,
HeOrShe set Stanley's WayBack Machine to a point which
corresponded to the exact Time-Space-Mind equivalent
of the Nadir Point between alpha and omega, and could
distinctly hear Tim C. May  hollering,
"I'm going to write about MultiMedia in the CypherPunks
archives on the first day the list exists, and you will
*never* get credit for the concept."

  The Author, realizing that the preceeding makes little
sense, suddenly realized that all HeOrShe really wanted
to point out in this chapter is that, despite the fact
that it is a B-grade movie in which Meg Foster never
shows her tits, the movie 'They Live' speaks a Truth
which needs to be understood by any individual who 
professes an interest in journeying beyond an imaginary
world-view in which he believes that buying the Jeep
seen sitting on top of the mountain peak will really
result in him getting to fuck the living shit out of
the large-breasted blonde bombshell lying across the
hood of the vehicle. (Or, alternatively, her thinking
that purchasing New Lemon Joy Dish Detergent will
really lead to her lifemate doing his share of the
dishes, and becoming more romantic, instead of just
humping her and then rolling over and going to sleep.)

ONE-TIME OFFER!!! [NOT TO BE REPEATED IN THE FUTURE]
  Any 'True Story of the InterNet' reader who undertakes
to watch, and believe the message of, 'They Live', is
hereby Officially Absolved of any guilt they may feel
in the future, over automatically deleting any post
sent to the CypherPunks Disturbed Male LISP by the
Author, despite any uneasy feeling they may have that
HeOrShe, in spite of the obvious lunacy inherent the 
MeatSpace Manifestation of the maunuscripts, is truly
from the GovernmentHomeForTheCriminallyInsane, and is
here to Help (TM) them...





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: verify@nytimes.com (New York Times subscription robot)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 22:12:27 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Welcome to The New York Times on the Web
Message-ID: <199807180512.BAA12197@content9a.nytimes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Welcome, cypherpunk6,

Thank you for registering for The New York Times on the Web.  

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC 
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 01:33:08 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: There ARE NO Coincidences...
Message-ID: <009C9574.B7195CE0.13@west.cscwc.pima.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


     * From: StanSqncrs@aol.com

This is an interesting, coincidence?  ;-)

In a message dated 7/18/98 12:58:15 AM Central Daylight Time,
lreed@west.cscwc.pima.edu writes:

<< The Author, for the first time realizing the dire warning
 hidden in ZZ Top's classic musical offering, 'Cheap Sun
 Glasses,' ... >> 
ROFLOL!  What's coincidental?  The latest tune that my band, Nobody's Business
(in which I play bass and sing) has learned, is Cheap Sunglasses by ZZ Top.
If it ain't coinicidence, I got a 'scarecrow' in my band.

Someone tell me if it's good or bad to be in the 'Space Aliens Hide My Drugs'
series.  ;-)

Stan,

~ ~ ~ ~

It's no coincidence, Stan...we've been keeping an eye on you.

Toto
~~~~
p.s. - ou've got something hanging from your lip.
p.p.s. - No...the *left* side...





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Saxgrim@aol.com
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 22:39:44 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: d
Message-ID: <4282906a.35b034bf@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


d




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: aytsd9238@sprynet.com
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 23:26:28 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: Earn $100 every time OUR phone rings...
Message-ID: <199807180626.XAA09707@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


ALL YOU DO IS ADVERTISE THIS 800 NUMBER! THAT'S ALL!! 

$100 goes to you for EVERY sale that the company closes!

Does the idea of making at least $1,000 per week 
beginning your 2nd week of doing business excite you? 

How about never having to sell a thing to your customer 
and never having to talk to ANYONE to make money? I don't 
know how this could get any easier.

EVERY aspect of selling or talking to someone is DONE 
COMPLETELY by the company!  

The number one home based business for the 2nd year in 
a row, Top Secrets is a member of the Better Business 
Bureau and the U.S. Chamber of Commerce.

WHAT THIS BUSINESS WILL DO FOR YOU:

* Handles all your calls, closes your sales, and 
  sends you WEEKLY commission checks! 

* It pays you a $100 commission (that's over 50% of the total 
sale)
  for EVERY sale. CHECKS put $$$ in your pocket in less than your 
first 
  week or two... Quick commission earnings build and maintain 
motivation. 
  ALL YOU DO IS ADVERTISE the toll-free number and your ID 
number. 

* You can get STARTED TODAY. Just advertise the business 
toll-free 
  number with your ID # and let this business CLOSE YOUR SALES 
every day...
  They do all the work and YOU GET PAID FOR IT! 

* You may advertise any way you choose: Bulk E-Mail, Flyers, 
Classifieds, 
  Postcards, etc. Suppose you use bulk E-Mail, as I am: 100,000 
E-Mails
  with a 1/10th of a percent (0.1%) sales rate at $100 per sale 
nets 
  $10,000... not too bad.

There is nothing else out there that will provide you with an 
immediate 
income beginning THIS WEEK with minimal effort.

Before you call, I want you to think about the quality of the 
live 
operators handling your call. I am convinced you will not find a 
better 
team of closers for your own personal sales.  You will clearly 
understand 
what I am talking about once you call.  

PLEASE DON'T LET THIS PASS YOU BY. MAKE THE CALL!!

1-800-811-2141

You will be asked for ID #56130 when you call.

(Live operators are available from 8 AM-10 PM CST Monday through 
Saturday and will be able to answer any questions you may have.)

Call one of the 24hr TESTIMONIAL lines at 888-703-5389, 
888-446-6949, 888-446-6951 or 888-731-3457 (all toll free). 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSqncrs@aol.com
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 23:48:18 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com (coolness)
Subject: Re: Live At The CypherMore - SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS!!!
Message-ID: <9e46edbf.35b043a1@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


This is an interesting, coincidence?  ;-)

In a message dated 7/18/98 12:58:15 AM Central Daylight Time,
lreed@west.cscwc.pima.edu writes:

<< The Author, for the first time realizing the dire warning
 hidden in ZZ Top's classic musical offering, 'Cheap Sun
 Glasses,' ... >> << ... Worried about the fact that some egoistical, elitist
 fuckwad might, at some point in the future, try to
 claim credit for the Author's discovery of MultiMedia,
 HeOrShe set Stanley's WayBack Machine to a point which
 corresponded to the exact Time-Space-Mind equivalent
 of the Nadir Point between alpha and omega, and could
 distinctly hear Tim C. May  hollering,
 "I'm going to write about MultiMedia in the CypherPunks
 archives on the first day the list exists, and you will
 *never* get credit for the concept." >>

ROFLOL!  What's coincidental?  The latest tune that my band, Nobody's Business
(in which I play bass and sing) has learned, is Cheap Sunglasses by ZZ Top.
If it ain't coinicidence, I got a 'scarecrow' in my band.

Someone tell me if it's good or bad to be in the 'Space Aliens Hide My Drugs'
series.  ;-)

Stan,
Nobody's Business
http://members.aol.com/stansqncrs/nobiz.html





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "RAED SALAH" 
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 02:37:16 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: PLEASE SEND ME FREE STUFF
Message-ID: <000101bdb22f$6838c580$2a4c2499@default>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


MY NAME IS BRENDA SALAH AND MY ADRESS IS PO BOX 218624 HOUSTON TX 77218 AND
MY E MAIL ADRESS IS RAEDS@MSN.COM I WOULD LIKE TO START RECEVING FREE STUFF
PLEASE E MAIL ME BACK AND LET ME KNOW HOW TO GET STARTED THANK YOU BRENDA
SALAH RAEDS@MSN.COM







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "RAED SALAH" 
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 02:39:45 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: MORE
Message-ID: <000101bdb22f$c0e0b1c0$2a4c2499@default>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


MY NAME IS BRENDA SALAH AND I WOULD LOVE TO GET FREE  STUFF MY ADDRESS IS PO
BOX 218624 HOUSTON TX 77218 AND MY E MAIL ADDRESS IS RAEDS@MSN.COM THANK YOU







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSqncrs@aol.com
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 02:56:16 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: There ARE NO Coincidences...
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


In a message dated 7/18/98 3:56:56 AM Central Daylight Time,
lreed@west.cscwc.pima.edu writes:

<< It's no coincidence, Stan...we've been keeping an eye on you. >>

That's why I suggest listening to I Robot by Alan Parson's Project.

Stan




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 04:41:43 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Scanning the DES Cracker
Message-ID: <199807181138.HAA10065@camel7.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


>From the EFF Web site:

   "Cracking DES" has been published only in print because 
   US export controls on encryption make it a crime to
   publish such information on the Internet, but the book is 
   designed to be easy to scan into computers.

John Gilmore has written that he is unable to provide
the digitized text of the book sitting on his desk due to
export controls, and that Chapter 4 of the book explains
what EFF expects to happen. EFF will link to an offshore 
URL as soon as the volume has been scanned and
posted.

We'll commence scanning the book as soon as it arrives
here next week and will provide the exportable parts to 
those working on the US-forbidden.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "GayWeb.Net" 
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 11:54:07 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: Request To Submit A URL!
Message-ID: <419.435994.48982095GayWeb@GayWeb.Net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hi Guys



    I love your site and wanted to see if I could get a link from your web
site to our web site. If you would like to have your web site listed at
our web site go to http://www.gayweb.net/GayLinks/submit.html and
add your web site automatically!


For Our Link Please use the information below or feel free to grab our
banner at .



GayWeb.Net - Web Hosting Services For The Gay Community!

http://www.gayweb.net/




Thank You,
The GayWeb.Net Staff - Staff@GayWeb.Net





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: eg_ckw@stu.ust.hk
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 13:56:41 -0700 (PDT)
To: TRADE@ecntr1.hosp.go.jp,       LINKS?@ecntr1.hosp.go.jp
Subject: L I N K !
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


 Please add my site to your pages links, below is the code:
 
 
 APHRODISIACS "REAL" (VIAGRA/GHB/TESTOSTERONE) - THE GREY MARKET WEB MALL
 
Cut and paste this link onto your website. Also, please send us a link 
to your webpage using the same code. We then will immediately place it 
on our links page.

Our Web-Site is currently recieving 
approximatley 1000-1500 hits per/day.

Thanks,
Dan Amato - President

SAMSON powerlifting / Bodybuilding co.
1-888-256-6785  (Toll Free Phone Call)
email - samson@samson-1.com
web address - www.samson-1.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Dumitru Tudor 
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 05:34:19 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Oi!
Message-ID: <35B092AD.23F5B3DC@ycaar.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


We grew up with anger and violence...
Is it a smart thing to use those things that destroyed our
lives and planet to get what's right?
I would really wanna hear what you think it's right.

                             Lots of @narchy from,
                    
                               Pukie

My E-mail:pukie@d3tudor.demon.nl




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED/EUREKA! 
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 14:41:35 -0700 (PDT)
To: All Eureka/Stuffed Subscribers: ;
Subject: I had sex with Bigfoot/Married to the slob
Message-ID: <19980718205409.6227.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Welcome to  today's  issue of Stuffed. To read it you should
click on the URL below.  If it is not made clickable by your
email program  you will need to  use your mouse to highlight
the line,  copy it and then paste it into your browser (then
press Return).

http://stuffed.net/98/7/18/

If you  have an email program that can display web pages you
will find today's front cover should have already been disp-
layed and can be clicked on to take you straight to Stuffed.

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Friend@nubiankg.com
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 14:36:42 -0700 (PDT)
To: Friend@nubiankg.com
Subject: " COMPLETE HOME BUSINESS KIT!!"
Message-ID: <199807181935.EAA25874@storage.pailing.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


EARN OVER $70,000 A MONTH
IN YOUR OWN HOME BASED BUSINESS 
AND LEGALLY PAY VERY LITTLE TAXES!!

This is NOT, I repeat, This is not MLM or Chainletter junk!!!

Friend;

     Those are strong words, I know. But if you're not making at least a TENTH of this every month you need to pay attention because I have an IMPORTANT MESSAGE on how you can make what I'm earning and do it within the next 90 days!!

     For years I have spun my wheels in various Home Based Business Opportunities with little success. A few MONTHS ago I finally found the key to making bundles of money, right from my home, selling a product everyone in the world needs and wants... INFORMATION! 
	
	I'm going to help you do the same if you JUST listen to learn how 
	to make over $70,000 a month with one of Hottest Selling reports
	in the world today!

 1)	I will set you up in your own Home Based Business for only $50.00!

 2)	I will GIVE you one of the FASTEST selling products in the world you can
      reproduce YOURSELF for pennies!
 
 3)	I will show you how you can become a Self Publisher & sell one of the most 
      Powerful & Provocative Reports ever written - right from your own home!

 4)	I will let you keep ALL the money you make selling this product!

   
   You don't need to spend thousands of dollars, bear enormous risk and work hundreds of hours a week to start this legitimate business from your home. 
     
   In a matter of hours you can start working at HOME, from your KITCHEN TABLE, making from $50 to $1,000 a day!!

	Here is all you will need...

#1. The Hottest Selling Publication In The World Today Called Offshore Special 
      Report Number 5599.
#2. A Copy Machine Or A Quick Copy Service That Can Duplicate OFS's Offshore 
     Special Report.
#3. A Quality Mailing List Or A Local Or National Publication to Run A SIMPLE Four 
     Line Classified Ad!
#4. A Mail Box To Collect The Hundreds Of Orders You Will Be Receiving Everyday - 
     Six Days A Week!
#5  This letter, which you obviously already have, just save it..  	
______________________________________________________________________
The Key To Any Business Success Is To Have A Product Or Service Everyone In The World Needs And Wants. That Product Should Be Inexpensive To Produce & Easy To Ship. You Will Have That Product With OFS's Offshore Special Report Number 5599!!
______________________________________________________________________

   OFS's Offshore Special Report Number 5599 will change peoples lives throughout the world by showing them how they can make and save money by removing themselves from the strict rules, regulations and tax burdens their government has imposed on them in the last few years.    

   BRACE YOURSELF - most people are taken aback by what I am about to tell you regarding OFS's Offshore Special Report Number 5599.

In OFS's Offshore Special Report Number 5599 You will find out that...

UNFAIR & DISCRIMINATORY Divorce settlements are made obsolete in this report!
RUTHLESS Creditors will CRINGE if they know you have read this report!
BLOOD SUCKING Lawyers May Go Broke By You Reading This Report!
HEARTLESS Tax agencies see RED when they read this report!
SNEAKY Politicians use the information in this report everyday!
Your GREEDY banker does not want you to read this report!
This report is BLACKBALLED by Most Government Agencies!
BACK STABBING relatives HATE this report!

You will also learn & Or Have Access To...

Ways POLITICIANS & THE RICH get even richer using TRUSTS and HOW you can do the same!

Incorporate offshore - Completely private and away from your government's regulations!

Your own secret offshore mailing address - no one will know your real address.

Offshore private checking account - deposit money and pay your bills from offshore - no paper trails.

Save up to 50% on printing & mail & have your sales material mailed from Jamaica - Are you in the mail order business? Here's a money saving opportunity no one else can offer!

Offshore investors - Do you have a viable funding project?

Offshore tax havens - legally delay or eliminate taxes  - no one knows - not even your government!

Offshore IBC's & Trusts - Asset protection from creditors and your government!    

Offshore Phone answering service - more privacy - more protection!    

Offshore Self-liquidating loans - if structured right, never needs to be paid back!    

High yield offshore investment opportunities - Find out how the rich make from 1% to 4% a week on their money - offshore and tax free - you can do the same!
    
Offshore visa card regardless of credit - no paper trails - works in any  ATM  worldwide!
       
Up to 100% financing on residential and commercial property - Hard to place mortgage sources!    
       
Bill consolidation regardless of credit rating - stop those harassing creditors within days using this credit source!
    
Lines of credit up to $15,000 regardless of credit - these credit cards are major bankcards!
    
Secret money - secrecy is a thriving industry - you will have access to these secret money sources!    
______________________________________________________________________
With All This Valuable Information In Report number 5599,  Do You See Why It's The Hottest Selling Report In The World Today? This Information Is Not Accessible Just Anywhere! Information Like This Can Not Be Found At Your Local Library. It Is Well Worth $50.00 - In Fact Its Well Worth Thousands Of Dollars By Showing People How They Can Save A Hundred Times That Amount In Taxes Alone! The Best Deal Of All Is That You Will Have FULL REPRINTS RIGHTS  And The Permission To Sell OFS's Offshore special Report Number 5599. YOU Keep ALL The Money!
______________________________________________________________________

   Information is the perfect product. It's easy to reproduce, easy to ship and easy to sell especially when it's as powerful as Report #5599. The market is unlimited in that you can sell Report #5599 to anyone, anyplace in the world. The potential is unlimited because there are billions of people throughout the world who need Report #5599 and are being introduced to Report #5599 this minute. Everyone...I mean everyone needs Report #5599....

   People who have a J.O.B. and have "More Month Than Money" - You know "Just over broke" !!
    
   People who are self-employed - paying that "Self Employment Tax" and are prime candidates for Law suits from every direction!
    
    People who are sick and tired of frivolous law suits - Did you know that in the U.S. there are 2.67 lawyers for every 1,000 people? Most lawyers are HUNGRY and need to sue someone for any reason to survive! 
   
    Professional people such as doctors, engineers, technicians, architects, stock- brokers, accountants,and YES even lawyers! - You know those people in the HIGHER THAN AVERAGE tax brakets! 
   
    People who are getting married or are married and plan on living happily ever after - Now back to reality - the U.S. has a divorce rate that exceeds 60% every year!    
    	
   Partners who want to make sure their partnership is a true 50-50 deal now and in the future!
    	
   People who live in a country that has strict rules and regulations limiting where and how they can run their business and manage their money!
    
   People who are retired and at the MERCY of their governments' rules concerning Social Security Income and Medical Benefits!
    
   People who WANT to retire but cannot afford to because of lack of income or the rules forced upon them by their government restricting them from receiving a decent income!
    
   People who are HIGH audit risks or have been audited by their governments' Dictatorial Tax Agency - You know "Guilty Until Proven Innocent"!  
  
   People who are paying their government 40% to 60% in taxes and are sick and tired of doing so! 
   
   People who are close to Bankruptcy and need to find a solution as soon as possible - 20% to 40% of the people in the United States are a paycheck away from Bankruptcy - Yes those people!  
  
   People who want to make sure their children receive 100% of their inheritance without the government stealing it away!   
 
   People who need credit and have been turned down through traditional sources, such as their local FRIENDLY bank! 
   
   People who want to keep their business and personal affairs PRIVATE-Hard to do this day and age with all the computers!  
  
   People who have the dream of financial independence and want to make thousands a day running their own Home Based Business!
    
    You must agree with me there is a tremendous market throughout the world; of people who are breathing and paying taxes which are prime candidates for Report #5599!
____________________________________________________________________
    Since We Have Determined The Entire World Is A Prime Candidate For Report #5599 Let Me Show You How Easy It Is To Sell Report# 5599 working From Your Kitchen Table!    ______________________________________________________________________

   HOLD ON!! How Rude Of Me! I Have Been Talking To You From The beginning of this email, without Officially Introducing Myself!  So let me officially introduce myself - I'm one of several OFS Independent Associates making FIVE DIGITS every month!  I'll be your sponsor - I'm the person who you will pay the $50.00 to and receive Report# 5599! I'm the person who will change your life forever! I'm the person who wants to see you succeed because if you succeed - I succeed!

   I want to make sure YOU succeed and see YOU sell hundreds, even thousands of reports every week. 
	
   The more you sell the more money I can make! Its' TRUE that you keep ALL of the $50.00 when you sell a report. You pay me NOTHING other than the initial $50.00 for the report - Not one single dollar - you keep it all. Sell only 10 reports a week and make $500 - You keep it all! Sell 100 Reports a week and you make $5,000 - You keep it all! Sell 500 Reports a week and make $25,000 - YOU KEEP IT ALL!!!

   Before I tell you how and why I make money every time you sell a report, let me show you how easy it is to advertise and sell "The Hottest Selling Report In the World" - OFS's Offshore Special Report Number 5599!.

   This report has been designed to be self-contained with all the marketing concepts on how to sell the report RIGHT INSIDE. In your copy of Report# 5599 you will have access to the following marketing strategies and tools...

   Sample of proven classified ads you can place in local or national publications that will make you FILTHY RICH!
     	
   A POWERFUL photo ready copy of a postcard you can put YOUR name & address on and have the $50.00 sent directly to you - AUTOMATICALLY.  I will show you how you can Print and Mail that Postcard - FIRST CLASS - for as little as Twelve Cents (U.S) Each!

Once you send in your Certificate of Registration from Report#5599 you will also receive...

     Additional DYNAMITE Classified and Display Ads that will generate hundreds, even thousands, of responses guaranteed to fill your mail box with $50.00 orders!

     Places to advertise for as little as seven cents (U.S.) Per word reaching over 73,000,000 People! A co-op advertising program sharing the leads and sales generated from National Television Infomercials!
     
A Photo Ready Copy of This ORDER PULLING Sales Letter for YOUR use to mail to the respondents of your ads!
     
Duplicatable Copy of an Audio Cassette Tape of this ORDER PULLING Sales Letter!
______________________________________________________________________
Become An Offshore Broker And Make More Money Than Most Dream Of Helping Others Find And Save Money! OFS's Offshore Special Report Number 5599 has a variety of money making opportunities and the "Offshore Broker" is just one of them!     
______________________________________________________________________

     I'M NOT GREEDY - I JUST LOVE WHAT MONEY      
     DOES FOR ME & MY FAMILY!     

   As the person who introduced YOU to Report# 5599 I have the opportunity to make over-rides on every Report# 5599 you sell. You see, I'm not happy JUST making $50.00 on the report I sold you. I would like to retire in the near future, sit back and receive hundreds, even thousands, of dollars a week for my past efforts of selling Report# 5599. In Report# 5599 there are additional money-making opportunities by having people establishing what are called International Business Corporations, Asset Protection Trusts(among other Offshore Business Support Services) and I can receive commissions and over-rides having people buying these services whether I personally sell them myself or you sell them through the initial sale of Report# 5599. That's why I'm interested in YOUR success. 

I want you to become a MILLIONAIRE by selling thousands of reports.

Here are a few of the additional money making opportunities contained in Report# 5599 from which I can make over-rides by becoming an "Offshore Broker"...

=> 	First, I make $50.00 on Report# 5599(I initally sold to you) in addition...
=> 	I can make up to $100 helping people set up an offshore checking account!
=> 	I can make up to $240 for every international business corporation established!
=> 	I can make up to $1,000 for every trust set up - Domestic or offshore!
=> 	I can make up to $50 for every self-liquidating loan manual sold!
=> 	I can make up to $100 for every offshore print & mail order!
=> 	I can make up to $100 for every offshore visa card established!
=> 	I can make up to $100 for everyone who receives a $15,000 Unsecured Line of 
      credit through a Major Bank Credit Card!
=> 	If I feel really energetic I can set up and run a TRUST AGENCY in my area and
      have people sell TRUSTS for me (somewhat like an Insurance  Agency)!  The
      money-making potential is tremendous by hiring several people who work in my 
      area. 

     I'm your sponsor and because of my efforts in selling YOU Report# 5599, I have the opportunity to make Lifetime Residuals from your efforts in selling Report# 5599 to others! I'm truly amazed at the marketing concept offered through OFS's Offshore Special Report Number 5599. The concept is so simple and it is COMPLETELY DUPLICATABLE! By making sure YOU MAKE thousands of dollars a week I'm going to get FILTHY STINKING RICH off your success!

     If it seems like I am BRAGGING and RUBBING it in about how I'm going to make bundles of money from your efforts it's TRUE!! You should be as EXCITED as I am because Report# 5599 allows YOU to DUPLICATE MY EFFORTS! When you sell a report to others you will then be in my position - to make ALL the over-rides and commissions I have just talked about - on those who then sell Report# 5599!
______________________________________________________________________
    The Following Questions & Answers are designed to answer most of the concerns you may have. This should give you enough information to determine if OFS's Offshore Special Report# 5599 is your tool for making thousands of dollars a week in a home based business...    
______________________________________________________________________

Q. Do I have to personally sell the report & the other offshore business support services to people who respond to my ads?

A. NO! This is really a two fold question. Let's talk about the selling of Report# 5599 first. All you have to do is place an ad, mail the postcards or send bulk email. If you place an ad send the respondent THIS SALES LETTER and let THIS SALES LETTER do the rest for you - no need to talk to anyone!! If you mail the postcards or use bulk emailing your job is done!

    The postcard will ask the respondent to send $50.00 to your mailing address. Email will work for you if you send it to as many people as you can. 

     If you decide to become an Offshore Broker and qualify to receive over-rides and commission on the Offshore Business Support Services the PARENT COMPANY will do the selling for you if you wish. This is a "NO BRAINER" and can be as simple or as complicated as you want to make it... Talk to the people if you wish or don't - Report# 5599 sells itself!

Q. How many hours a week will I have to devote to my business?

A. One to sixty hours a week! Here's a question I will answer with a question...How much money do you want to make? Common sense says the more ads you run and the more mailings you do the more money you will make! The statistics show that for every 100 responses you receive from your ads, and you mail THIS SALES LETTER, you will sell five to ten reports making you $250.00 to $500.00 (US). Your ad responses will vary depending on the place you advertise and the circulation of the publication. The more ads you run or the more emails you send out the more time you will need to devote to your Home Based Business.

Q. Just how much money will I need to start my home based business?

A. $50.00! Yeah I know - You're thinking you will need money for ads and mailing. Well - I've had people start with $50.00 (U.S) and make ten copies of the report and sold them to their associates and friends giving them $500.00(US). That gave them enough money to start running ads and to buy stamps. In looking at all the money making opportunities offered in the world today I really don't think you can get started for any less than $50.00 and have a BETTER LEGITIMATE money-making opportunity than the one offered in Report# 5599!     

Q. If I have additional questions who will answer them for me?

A. I will or the parent company will! No package of information, no matter how complete, can possibly answer every question that may come up. I do not want you to lose money seeking out the answers. I want you to succeed! You will receive a phone number in Report# 5599 where you can either reach me or someone from the parent company for any question or help you need!
______________________________________________________________________
    Here's a valuable bonus for ordering within 5 days....Your's absolutely FREE!! 
______________________________________________________________________ 

     I have persuaded the parent company - Offshore Financial Services, Ltd. - to give you their OFS Offshore Business Journal - Volume I - FREE OF CHARGE - as a bonus for ordering Report# 5599 within 5 days of receiving this email. You will receive the Journal when you send in your "Certificate of Registration" found in the report. The information in this Journal is priceless and can NOT be found anywhere but RIGHT HERE!!

Here's a sample of that information:

   Bonus #1 OFS's Offshore Business Journal

>Your IRS returns are suppose to be private - Not so!
> Funds through on-line computer services!
> Raising capital without borrowing from the bank!
> How to get medicines before they're approved by the FDA!
> Airlines will handle your baggage with special care if you know the secret!
> You can borrow money from your IRA. Just don't call it a loan
> How to get free subscriptions to over 60 magazines!
> Establish AAA credit in 30 days!
> Why Americans are mad as hell!
> Sources for quick cash loans.

    Bonus #2 Report #5599 Support Package.

> How to reach over 73,000,000 people for as little as 7 cents per word!
> How to set up voice mail and never talk to anyone who responds to your ads.
> To use or not to use a mailing list?
> How to receive free names to mail to.
> How to mail your postcards & sales flyers "First Class" for a low as 12 cents each-
   includes printing! 
> How to collect $5 from people who want to receive this sales letter!

    Bonus #3 Bulk-Emailer's Dream Package.
    
         By ordering within the next 5 days, you will also receive a floppy disk 
     packed full of online marketing tips from two of the nation's top electronic
     marketers. I have previously offered this disk for $79.95, but by purchasing 
     Report #5599 through this special offer within the next 5 days, it will be 
     yours for FREE!! I will also include another floppy disk with over 150 Hot Money
     Making reports that you can sell together or individually!
         Bulk-email has been proven to be the most effective way to market on the
     internet. By ordering within the next 5 days; I will include a program that collects
     names from aol chat rooms at a maximum rate of over 10,000 per Hour!! You will
     receive high response rates marketing to these fresh names that you have
     collected yourself.  Now all you will need is a bulk-email program, you will 
     receive a link where you can download a free fully working demonstration bulk-
     email program that will allow you to begin earning profits the day you receive my
     package.  You will not need to be concerned with losing your ISP because I will
     show you exactly how to send hundreds of thousands of emails per day while
     cloaking your ISP's mail server and your identity at the same time!!
        STOP THE PRESSES!!, I'm not finished giving away Free Extras yet! I have
     just learned of a Brand New ISP that is offering FREE ACCESS!!! That's right
     TOTALLY FREE unlimited internet access!! If your Order is received via Fax 
     within the next 24HRS I will tell you how to sign up for this free service which 
      is a $240/yr value ORDER NOW!!
        With all that I will be providing you, your success is guaranteed. You will not
     receive this offer again; by ordering Report #5599 within the next 5 days all of the
     above information will be yours for a measly US$50.00. ORDER TODAY!!
        Why am I giving away so much for so little? Good question... It is my personal
     belief that any responsible hardworking person can achieve financial security
     given the proper opportunity and information.. The Rich have kept opportunities
     and information to themselves that would allow anyone of us to achieve 
     unparalleled success easily.  That is why I am giving away a solid product, plus 
     all the information needed to successfully sell that product, for only US$50.00 
     to anyone with enough interest and patience to read this letter.


Sincerely,

YOUR SPONSOR
OFS Independent Associate

                                        RISK FREE GUARANTEE

   If you are not completely satisfied after reading Report #5599 and its Support Package simply return them both within 120 Days for a full refund. No questions asked. You keep the floppy disks, Business Journal and Dream Package. You have NOTHING to risk and a FORTUNE to make. Here's your RISK FREE opportunity to change your financial situation forever!!

{cut}==========================================================

                                     Special Report #5599 Order Form

___ Please rush me a copy of OFS's Offshore Special Report# 5599 and all Bonuses. I understand I have Full Reprint Rights and can sell Report# 5599 for $50.00 (U.S.) Keeping ALL THE MONEY!

___ I have enclosed a CHECK /MONEY ORDER for $50.00

Please mail the report to (PLEASE PRINT CLEARLY)

Your Name: _______________________________________________________________

Address: __________________________________________________________________

City: ______________________________________________________________________

State: ______ Zip: ________________

Phone: (___) ______-___________ Fax: (___) ______-___________

Email Address ___________________________

Mail This form & The check or money order for US$50.00 to the Address below:

Dynamic Communications
P.O. Box 373-356
Decatur, GA 30037-3356
Fax: (770) 234-4241
Phone: (404) 274-8669

Or, if you prefer, you may also pay by faxing your credit card information or copy of your check to the number above along with the information requested on the order form. 

Please Note: If ordering by credit card be sure to include card type, number and expiration date.  After dialing you will be prompted to press 2 for fax.

Sorry, Report #5599 is too big for us to email it to you, we will send it Priority Mail within 24 hrs of receipt of your order.     







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Life.Without.Debt
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 05:41:51 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199807191241.FAA07929@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Get Out Of Debt For Life Program 

******************************************************
If I have offended you in any way I apoligize.
This list is meant for people who are interested in
making money or business opportunities. Simply reply
with Remove and our software will block you from further 
mailings!!
****************************************************


Hello,

I am the mailer of this invitation, and just one of the 
many people in the Easy Money, Compound Leveraging, 
Educational Program, who is determined to help YOU 
become financially independent!

 ..... Have you ever wished that you could find a money 
creating, mail order program that is simple enough, and 
cheap enough to promote, that all you need to do, 
is get in, tell a few friends about it and get Rich Quick, 
without leaving the comfort of your own home?

 Well, my friend, .................You have finally found it!

  I recently became involved in this plan, by responding 
to a flyer just like the one below this letter. I spent 
only $5 out of my pocket to get started, and began receiving 
envelopes  with money inside them, just a few days  
after entering the program.

 ... I could not believe my eyes, at first, because I 
had not even had time to tell anyone about the program, 
so I dug through the pile of other mail order junk on 
my desk, and I found the information on the Life Without 
Debt Plan, that I had received the previous week and I 
Re-read every word trying to find a catch, because I was 
sure there must be one! 
Guess What,!!! The catch is there is no catch!

 ... I also called the person who mailed me the plan, 
to ask how this happened so fast! He explained the plan, 
as best he could, but said he did not know much, except 
that he to was receiving money in the mail almost daily, 
yet he had only started advertising, by mailing a few 
flyers each week.

 ..... He told me to advance to the next steps as 
instructed in the information kit, because that was 
what he had done, and my envelopes of money would have 
larger sums in them, from that point on!

.. I advanced to the additional plans, and behold, 
believe it or not, the envelopes of money come to my 
mail box daily, and they get fatter and fatter, every 
single day, with more money in each envelope!

 .. I know the plan can work for YOU too! Give it a try! 
You have nothing to loose and everything to gain!

 ...Return your completed Form Below, and $5 cash, to the 
computer center as soon as possible, so the data entry folks 
can place some of the folks responding to my mailings 
under you!

..They only accept cash because they turn it around immediately and send it out to the people already in the program.  They don't have time to deal with cashing checks and tracking down bad ones which is time consuming and costly.


 ......... If you need to contact me to ask questions, 
Email me at 

iglooy@postmaster.co.uk 

... I will be happy to answer any question you have, 
About this fantastic opportunity, If I can, although 
I'm new to the program, and to tell you the truth, 
I don't care how it works, because I know it works, 
Even if I don't understand everything! Lord Knows, 
What would happen, if I knew how it works!!

Sincerely,

John Ball

       


----------------------------------------------------------------

               NO SPONSORING REQUIRED!!!!!

                  "Life Without Debt"

       Easy Money Educational Training Course For 1998
-----------------------------------------------------------------

WE SHOW YOU HOW TO:

***Compound $5 weekly into $780 weekly to start!
***Then we show you how to compound $25 into $3,900 per week!
***Compound Leverage Your Way to Complete Financial Independence!
***Eliminate Your Debts From Creditors and Banks!

	Simply print out and return this letter with $5 CASH ONLY, 
In an envelope. We will then mail our "Life Without Debt", 
INSTRUCTION GUIDE to you and place you into our $5 
Easy Money Plan, to illustrate how the plan works! 


IF MONEY IS ALL YOU WANT, That's easy! 
This program is all about MONEY!
It Appeals to the Masses....

*No Sponsoring Required!    *Pays out 80% PLUS on all levels!

*Teaches you how to take control of your finances 
And get out of debt FAST! Topics of the educational package 
Cover Money, Credit, Debt, Taxes, Federal Reserve, Corruption 
In Administrative Agencies of Government, Corruption in the courts, 
And the U.C.C. "UNIFORM COMMERCIAL CODE for THEFT BY THE GOVERNMENT"

*SOLID, 9-year-old debt free company, Has an established 
Customer base of over75,000+!

*Has an excellent support system to guide you, step by step 
Through the pay plans!
*Best of all, you can GET STARTED on an Affordable 
"Shoestring Budget" of only $5 weekly! Then advance through the
 Entire system at your own pace.

Let us HELP you get on an Extra income path without leaving
Your "Comfort Zone" Get Started Today!
Print out this letter, complete the details below and mail 
this letter along with $5 CASH ONLY to: 

Computer center
P.O. BOX 1511
Grapevine, Texas 76051

NOTE: MEMBERS RESIDING OUTSIDE OF U.S.A MUST SEND $10.00

....Please send CASH ONLY, as it is used to pay the upline daily, 
and ILLUSTRATE HOW the plan works! NO CHECKS!  

Your Name:______________________________________________________

Address:________________________________________________________

City:____________________ State:________ Zip______________

Phone#:________________


Mailers I.D.# 022 05 2198 1          John Ball      




-----------------------------------------------------------------


_________________________________________________________










From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC 
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 09:48:02 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Leftist Nutly News - SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS!!!
Message-ID: <009C9683.02D72A40.1@west.cscwc.pima.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Leftist Nutly News - SPACE ALIENS HIDE M DRUGS!!!
__________________________________________________

  The Royal Canadian Mounted Police have a major, major problem
on their hands.
  They finally got their man, and now have absofuckinglutely
no idea what to do with HimOrHer.

  Well...*two* major problems, actually.
  They've started believing their own press--a deadly step which
leads down a long, torturous path of, in this case, mutually
assured nuclear individual and group self-destruction.

  Uuhhh...make that 'two-and-a-half' major problems. (I forgot
to 'carry the two,' realized that things didn't quite add up 
in the reader's mind, and realized that there is a natural-born
corollary to the mathematically logical theorem I have proposed
above, which I shall henceforth erudite to you.)

 [EditBore's (Left) Nut: The AuthWhore, ALegendInHisOwnSlime as
 a result of his earthly eruditions and epistles on everything 
 under the sun (not to mention the son) as a result of his rather
 questionable contributions to the Bienfait Nutly News and The
 True Story of the InterNet manuscripts, also happens to be, by
 an amazing stroke of coincidence noted by Stan SequinWearer
 recently, a MathematicalLegendInHisOwnMind as the result of 
 imagining that she is a respected member of an internationally 
 recognized elit/e/ist group of renowned mathematical military 
 genius members of a ThreeNumberedAgencyToBeDividedLater which
 is uncommonly known as the CypherPunks Distributed Nuts.
 In all modesty (since I am writing this myself, only as if in
 the third person--an old writer's trick...), the Arthur is
 indeed one of the formost authorities of our era on the 'New
 Age Math,' which is an Einsteinian Fusion of LogicAndReason
 with a BeerSteinIan QuantumLeap beyond any semblance of normal
 propriety and/or common-sense, in which one's traditional 
 mathematical results on the BlackBoard are combined with a
 psychic reading of the results of mixing last night's pizza
 with a morning half-finished-stale-beer-with-a-butt-in-it,
 now residing in the WhitePorcelainBowl, in order to be able
 to offer firm proof to the President's Commission On Propping
 Up A Decaying American Educational System that the FoolsOn
 TheHill can safely legislate the value of Pi to be 3.0, in
 order to avoid discrimination against the Mathematically
 Challenged, without adversely affecting 
 "NATIONAL SECURIT" , since all circles,
 save one, can be forced back into the shape that the Judo/
 Christian God of Moses, Abraham, and Lot's wife, had intended
 for them, by a conscientiously applied plan of good oral
 hygene and the abandonment of any further pretense of paying
 the slightest bit of attention to the HumanRightsWhichBelong
 ToEveryIndividualOnTheFaceOfTheEarthAsANaturalBirthrightAnd
 NotAsAResultOfBeingAllegedlyBESTOWEDUPONTHEMByWordsWritten
 OnAPieceOfParchment.
 The Author, in HisOrHer latest work, "What Value of Pie Does
 A 500 Pound Gorilla Get For Breakfast?"--free to the first
 three million subscribers to this weekend's InterNet Pay Per
 View MultiMedia Extravaganza, where HeOrShe masturbates, for
 the first time, at the age of 93, for a virtually live 
 audience of sicko's and perverts--explains that many of the
 underprivileged youth of today have pawned their calculators
 to buy crack-pipes, and their only education in mathematical
 sciences has come from their attorney's attempts to explain
 'five to ten' to them.] 


  Like I was saying, before I was so *rudely* interrupted...

  The second half of the second problem is that, not only are
the RCMP in mortal danger of believing their own press, but they
also face the even more mortal danger (A coward dies a thousand
deaths--but more on *that* later...) of the reverse parallax
corollary of their ArchieEnemy, the Bienfait Nutly Noose, being
found believable, despite the OneManFullCourtPress's constant
claims of conniving, conspiratorial lunacy fed by a wide variety
of widely recognized atmospheric brainwave disturbances which
are caused by such things as solar flare-ups, moon phases, and
astroids approaching the earth with space ships hiding behind
them (so it was a comet...so sue me!), resulting in HeOrShe
having to fill in the parts of the MessagesFromMars that were
not entirely legible due to the Voices screaming inside HisOrHer
head.
  In short, the poor dumb bastards who bought into the Dudley
DoRight Mythology (TM), only to find themselves becoming trained
animals in a MusicalRide that embodied one Horse'sAss sitting
atop another one and going in circles where the Music had no
Magic...
  Well, let's just say that, somewhere deep inside, the poor
buggers recognize that, no matter how many of them there are,
or how many guns they acquire (while hiding the citizen's guns
under a Rock), being trained to obey, instead of think, may
prove to be their ultimate undoing.

  What I am getting at, here, is that there is undoubtedly not
a single member of the RoyalHorseHumpers who has crossed my
path in the last half-decade who has not taken one look at
me and instinctively realized that I needed to be put down
like a filthy dog, despite the admonishons of their superiors
that the all-important Image (TM) must be maintained, for
appearances sake.
  Now...it is too late.

  A member of a Canadian mainstream community cult known as
the Estevanites, Brad Parker (no relation to himself), once
replied, upon being asked his name by a member the Royal
HorseHumpers, "Fuck ou! My name is Fuck ou!"
  Being, at the time, your AverageCanadianWhiteBoyPussy, it 
took me years to realize that, far from being a beligerant,
ignorant fool, too stupid to forsee the consequences of his
actions, Brad had astutely assessed the situation which he
found himself in, and realized that being taken to jail,
instead of being severly beaten and left lying in a back
alley, was the superior option only when one did not have
a friend who had promised to meet him at home with a case
of beer after the bars closed.
  He made the right choice...
{Let's have a big, big round of applause for broken, bleeding
 Brad, an inspiration to *serious* drinkers everywhere, who
 are not only in it for the pissing away of their money and
 the lack of glory (or even respect, for that matter).}

  Well, to make a long story even incredibly longer, the
LittleFucker that the RCMP, Canadian Customs and Immigration
and the Canadian Justice System threatened to ButtHole (TM)
at the tender age of five ("If it threatens the life of a
single child..."), finally wised-up, and became  the BigFuckou!
{Change the name on my warrants, boys and girls, because
 I have my Johnson so far up your butts that I'm going to
 be able to tell you *how* I fucked you and *why* I fucked
 you, and there's not a Dogammed thing you can do about
 it.}

  Details? ou want *details*?
  Gee, gang, I'm a little thirsty, and I think I'll take a
break, have a couple of beers and relax. 
  Having had the Government's Richard up my butt for a
half-century, I don't think there's any big rush for me
to get my nut, now that it's *my* turn...

[ Important Announcement For Law Enforcement Agencies:
  "James Bell polls for *you*..." ]




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 07:44:19 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: `Vulis terminator' full of crap (Re: net.cop revs up again)
In-Reply-To: <199807182302.AAA15438@server.eternity.org>
Message-ID: <199807191444.KAA23892@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


This is fact, not the media kind: I've tried to reach Dimitri
by phone a few times since Termination, indeed Mr. T.
helped me find a working number (forwarded to his own). 
A lady sounding like Guy there took my name, number 
and request for DM to call. But he hasn't. He just keeps posting
as Guy, as Tim, as Nuri, muliple Adams, Johns, Jims, Peters,
anons, and  so on, each of the imposters posing as others.

Remember this fact, Tim/Dimitri were in cahoots to nuke the 
legacy toaderpunks from day one, pretending to be halves
of evil twins. (Note the overlapping name spelling.)

Still, shifting back to media, the five of us in Manhattan --
Perry, Dimitri, Guy, Duncan (Ray's in Brooklyn -- hundreds 
more don't openly affinity) hate each other's guts with infinite 
passion as is the duty of citizens competing for dole here, 
especially since 20 millions of us are on the dole, thank you 
Mr. Roosevelt for legalizing taxing/extoriting/wall streeting
the rest of the globe beyond the Hudson and Fire Island, 
from itzy-ritzy bankers to scum of the media sapoid. 

Primarily, though, our full-time role is to hide from each other 
and the vengeful planet, have our machines say things like, 
speak to my agent, my lawyer, my mate, then flip a switch
to the voice of the referent saying things like, he's not in, he's 
traveling, he's away, his son's just been killed skiing, he'll 
get back, cackle like Freddie.

Shifting back to fact: Dimitri's lady who took my name was:
Dimitri, Guy, Perry, Duncan, Ray, any of Dimitri's manifold
enemies and friends, any of you. Who knows who's here?

Nothing I've seen proves cypherpunks exists: I've seen Ray
twice and he wasn't the same. I've seen Duncan twice and
he wasn't the same. Neither recognized me either. We've
all introduced ourselves to Jim Kallstrom as one another,
and did the same to several of Kallstrom's stand-ins. 

Mark this: "Perry Metzger" for certain is non-existent, it's only
a mail drop, a chalk mark, a can by the road, a highly paid
fictional security scam: Pay or plonk. Cooped cops and 
holed-up criminals do, up the kazoo.

I say for a fact the crypto/cypherpunk/cops/spooks game's 
one bird doing a solo dance. Who that bird is, works for, 
remains to be reported reliably: an impossibility by definition. 

100 to 1 it's a rogue bot, buried in a bridge caisson, powered 
by tidal flow or planetary rotation, unstoppable until earth freezes,
burns or implodes to infinite deception.

Dimitri was not terminated, can't be, he never was, like the rest
of us highly classified phantasms. Adam Back got the story
right, he's exchanging messages with a bot mirroring his inner 
evil, call that Tim, call it Dimitri, he'll call back as the One True
Terminator you don't want to meet, ever, but will.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "John D. Hays" 
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 07:45:20 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: ZDTV and CNN coverage of DES Cracker
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980719114335.0079eb20@mail.castle.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


>Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 22:06:31 -0400
>To: John Gilmore 
>From: "John D. Hays" <@>
>Subject: Re: ZDTV and CNN coverage of DES Cracker
>In-Reply-To: <199807180011.RAA02044@toad.com>
>
>At 05:11 PM 7/17/98 -0700, you wrote:
>>ZDTV will have me on the 8PM news tonight, and Barry Steinhardt on
>>their "Silicon Spin" program today.
>>
>>CNN took pictures earlier today, I don't know when they'll use them.
>>
>
>	Congratulations to you and the EFF. I caught some of Silicon Spin.
Everyone seemed to agree that DES was weak and the government is going
about things all wrong.  But CNN doesn't get it.
>
>To paraphrase:
>"A popular method of scrambling data was dealt a blow today... by a
specially built cracking machine... a BANKER was quoted as admonishing
these efforts as reckless for it will only benefit _criminals_."
>
>	I don't remember it verbatim but I remember the impression I got from
CNN.  Now, this was only a news brief, not a report or a panel, but it
illustrates the ignorance (or bias) of big media.
>
>	They never said "encryption". Instead referring to it as "method of
scrambling data".  Encryption is a geeky Big Word that CNN thinks normal
people won't know.  They completely ignored the social and political
implications of cracking DES.  Using encryption to secure your
correspondence, for authentication, or to protect Freedom and Liberty are
geeky Big Concepts that CNN thinks normal people won't understand.  
>
>	Now I don't expect an in-depth report on a complex issue in thirty
seconds.  But to completely ignore the real issues and give us a half assed
uncited falsehood?  Did anyone see any good coverage of the DES crack on
CNN, ABC, NBC or any other big corporate news program?
>
>





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 14:20:55 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: IDEA chip evaluation?
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980719142031.007c2d60@m7.sprynet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Anyone actually received the IDEA chip eval board from ASCOM?
How long does this take?



honig@alum.mit.edu
	
	Speech is not protected simply because we write it in a language
		Federal	Judge Gwin on the Bernstein case









From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: lisa@yahoo.com
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 08:21:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: HOT FREE PHONESEXrere
Message-ID: <199807191527.PAA15081@uecnet.uecnet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


hi baby!

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: JackeI466@aol.com
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 13:19:29 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: send me the book
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


send me the book (e/mail me back




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED/EUREKA! 
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 10:57:34 -0700 (PDT)
To: All Eureka/Stuffed Subscribers: ;
Subject: Tit's a victory: Twany Peaks not a boob basher/White House zombie sex
Message-ID: <19980719170949.16692.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Welcome to  today's  issue of Stuffed. To read it you should
click on the URL below.  If it is not made clickable by your
email program  you will need to  use your mouse to highlight
the line,  copy it and then paste it into your browser (then
press Return).

http://stuffed.net/98/7/19/

If you  have an email program that can display web pages you
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instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "kryz" 
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 09:36:18 -0700 (PDT)
To: "Ciferpunx" 
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



hQEMAw0xW9bpUfQRAQgAjPWC/fQ0S9OllvrvE3LXM2avlc0TyhJlu25PGZBV7Gva
KsnbzE3dAh9fYc6oHg6CGAgYZDbVU/gK0s/v7j3Skri10L63A/YnxdqVd1LMJIzb
9ozXbZl+nAu5ocbEvOvs1YJGBLXkadHePzzpDEhW0ijDBJGeNnU8dlfnPhQZLTJj
s+NcjTPE1bX0Vsz3Z6kG/Joo0xDLZz4lxq0LW98UFaCy3zHV0Zs0HimEIx7pd/kw
hKiK8R7OU9lL/P8kOfNIF73ij8+bGV+aMj1zDLfHV2DMOin4qrmOy0LMqv5v36TX
iMc7Q6XZfZLis7t817/Xvw5IvPzG1iSnhC9g/RV9HaYAAAEL/2lnKxiBaV3eyYsh
rKaJ7DN4KRISePHuTCUgpyp1y1f2yH/6RkttlLqKGdcKu1seo9EDaliCr0BA5MXW
rhwMoXVtCnZJY1htRZuOLOfCbFHIQ7eeBfhff8l3mWKHCrAsgNgXAVVtFNAVOgHY
np9KdGOgcs7iRBVuoBNnFGCXDOXyCSxvwKbIIegCPwYXvt4FNkVY69gbKQbJyi0E
hqDPU+ESRqlTzZ82RM8lvxRFfEbWJ4OgqQU2E4Y80gxCHUVcFJZ9nhvqm77pxvcO
YCLLjtcLeyZd40a5xzMn8szFTx1J4EXsmlpmQ2mB0+4xdLTGmBmtwPQiR/fzsspT
cnQCq1lpQMYygBMmmF8j
++U59







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: attila 
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 12:29:13 -0700 (PDT)
To: John Young 
Subject: Re: Covert Access to Data and ID
In-Reply-To: <199807081547.LAA21623@camel14.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



    there is no such word as "can not" in terms of covert surveillance;
    however, if the method is to be universal, the gubmnt will need to

    1.  enforce drastic standardization of hardware systems if the 
	logging functions are to be effective. 

	    this might Intel rather happy and Intel is the type of
	    organization which would perform the function with glee,
  	    if they are not already developing it.  for instance,
	    I just installed a ATX-BX-AGP motherboard which consists
	    of a "few" VLSI support chips for the SLot 1 processor:
	    PCI, PCI to ISA, IDE, USB, and power management  (5 chips,
	    all Intel) plus adaptec SCSI and Intel's 100M ethernet.

	    it would be easy enough to embed the keystroke function
	    since the PC98 spec calls for total implementation of the
	    USB controlled.  

    2.  enforce drastic standardization of operating systems to support
	the hardware --which makes MickeySnot ideal in so much as they
	do not publish source code.

	    my question would be whether or not Gate$ was doing the
	    SIGINT or the government. embedding WIPO is a wet dream
	    on the part of the same publishers which are trying to
	    ram home the draconian M$ software license in the UCC
	    revisions up for vote in Cleveland later this month.

	    why M$?  they are almost universal.
 
	    I, for one, refuse to run _anything_ branded by
	    Gate$ encroaching sloth --never have, never will. I can see
	    the government trying to slip their code into freeBSD
	    distributions --welcome to the anarchists...  likewise,
	    Linux, netBSD, BSDI, etc. and, I would say the government's
	    interest is significantly more advanced for the known
	    dedicated hackers, operating systems tweakers, and other
	    assorted non-conformists who do not subscribe to M$.

	    bottom line is a proprietary OS --and getting everyone to
	    run it --good luck, other than by unenforcable fiat; there
	    will be ways to circumvent any clamp although the feds will
	    certainly thin our ranks.

    3.	provide some means of transparently piggy-backing the information
	(presumably in raw form) on the network.

	    again, the cooperation of the operating system is required;
	    not everyone is on line, and many connections are slow. if the
	    data collection is limited to keystokes only, the data require-
	    ment is relatively low, but the holding tank is still required.

	    the alternative is to short range transmit the information
	    and wire the neighborhoods with the receivers.  one of their
	    objective is to have everyone instantly "tappable".

    4.  establish data collection centers

	    60 million current net users --consider the data quantity

    5.  establish prescreen and select for analysis data processing

	    consider the intelligence required

    6.  analysis software

	    NSA may try to scan all international traffic in real time
	    with key word recognition, etc. but keystroke, including
	    dealing with editing, mistakes, corrections, etc, which
	    confuse the input?

    bottom line:  we aint there yet.  however, a van outside in the
    street can pick up the signals from hundreds of machines. 

	[  lost most of my recent files on a tape crash --there was 
	   a project at OxBridge which generated hash interferance 
           which made scanning rather difficult - more effective than
	   Tempest --can anyone refresh the pointer? ]

    there is no question the government expects intrusive technology. the
    burrow-critters are running on high-octane paranoia and they intend
    to preserve the status quo of governing without our consent.  their
    historical means of controlling the news is running out of headroom;
    the internet gossip lines are faster than their reaction times.

    I certainly would not want to say the feds could not initiate and/or
    enforce any or all of the above requirements, but there is a point
    where even the American sloths will rise up and start the process
    of creating martyrs for the cause.

    a more probable approach is to limit the desemination of information
    by "known" opponents of government actions (trivial by blocking their 
    network access once the control the ISPs; and 

    maybe a few high profile trials with lead jacket incarcerations to 
    scare off some of the less vociferous (dont say they cant jail us all).

    lastly, I look at it this way: for every measure, there is a counter-
    measure. if I can not determine the existence of SIGINT transmissions
    from my hardware/software, I'll be hanging up my spurs.  after all,
    listening to gubmnt propoganda in both ears is redundent, who needs it?

    	attila out...

   _________


On Wed, 8 Jul 1998, John Young wrote:

>Dave Emery's remarks on government access to
>keystrokes (proposed by the NYT as an alternative
>to GAK) points to the probable increase of intrusive
>devices to counter increasing use of encryption
>and other privacy and anonymity measures.
>
>This topic comes up here now and then, with
>mentions of a slew of methods to protect privacy of 
>data during transmission or storage. But the possibility
>of logging the initial creation or manipulation of data is
>not as often discussed, nor how to tie a person to
>the data, as now being asked in legal and law
>enforcement fora to identify, catch, convict and
>jail computer culprits.
>
>That the NYT floated the idea surely means someone
>is testing public response to an idea that seems to
>be more intrusive than GAK: the logging of initial
>data and any manipulation of it, prior to encrypting,
>and maybe including a means to link the actions to
>the user.
>
>If this is logging (and related retrieval) is done covertly, 
>encryption could thereby become a falsely reassuring 
>cloak of privacy.
>
>Dave thinks devices like these are surely in the works,
>and he can say more about their sponsors, technologies 
>and implementations.
>
>One driving force, as he previously noted, is the desire
>for devices to assure copyright protection, backed by the 
>WIPO treaty, which now being considered for approval. 
>See the House report on it at:
>
>   http://jya.com/hr105-551.txt  (141K)
>
>And the EFF and ACLU opposition to it:
>
>   hr2281-opp.htm
>
>Other forces, though, are employers who want to snoop,
>law enforcement, government, marketers, actually the
>same groups who dislike privacy protection measures,
>but often prefer to snoop covertly while loudly proclaiming
>support for privacy.
>
>Thus, the more general question Dave has raised is how
>widespread is the development and implementation of
>technolgies for covert surveillance on the Web and in 
>desktop boxes -- happily spreading quietly while attention 
>is focussed on the very encryption which it will circumvent?
>
>And what are these devices, or what might they be, what 
>might be countermeasures and who might be working for 
>and against them. SDA must have insights to share.
>
>Over to Dave Emery and those more knowledgeable. 
>
>For those who missed his earlier message we've put it, with a 
>follow-up at:
>
>   http://jya.com/gaks-de.htm
>
>
>

__________________________________________________________________________
    go not unto usenet for advice, for the inhabitants thereof will say:
      yes, and no, and maybe, and I don't know, and fuck-off.
_________________________________________________________________ attila__

    To be a ruler of men, you need at least 12 inches....
    There is no safety this side of the grave.  Never was; never will be.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Reeza! 
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 04:35:13 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Request To Be Phlamed
In-Reply-To: <419.435994.48982095GayWeb@GayWeb.Net>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980719203408.00838a50@205.83.192.13>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 11:53 AM 18 07 98 -0700, GayWeb.Net wrote:
>Hi Guys

GO THE FUCK AWAY. NOW.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Rahsaan Young 
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 20:42:23 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: magic codes
Message-ID: <35B2BC74.3662@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


looking for magic codes for cellphones know of any please send




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Masterweb@mail.kc.net
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 00:10:13 -0700 (PDT)
To: Masterweb@mail.kc.net
Subject: AGGRESSIVE INVESTING
Message-ID: <<199807160000.UAA01620@sdanet.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC 
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 01:34:07 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: BackDoors - SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS!!!
Message-ID: <009C9707.23105320.3@west.cscwc.pima.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I've Got BackDoors Coming Out My AssHole! - SAHMD!!!
____________________________________________________

  I am not a sick, degenerate asshole who likes to beat up
people in wheelchairs, although I have been known to kick
the ass of a one-armed man, given the fact that he may well
be the guy who murdered Richard Kimble's wife...
  Thus, I feel it incumbent upon myself to give an honest
account of my life of crime, so that the Law Enfarcement
Offals and Persecuting Attorneys who have, so far failed 
miserably over the years in bringing me to Officially
Recognized Justice (TM), will have a fighting chance of
throwing my sorry ass in a dark hole until Hell freezes
over, by portraying me as the sorry, pathetic, psychotic,
monstrous, criminal, scum-bag piece of shit that I am, in 
Reality (TM).

  First, however, I would like to insert an totally upaid
advertisement for the DigitalRainbowRevolutionaryFamily
gathering at the Plaza Hotel in Lost Wages at the end of
July (I think).
  It's some kind of hacker's conference (I think), and they
have a Spot The Narc (or somesuch) contest (I think) during
the conference.
  I have all the details on a faded copy of an email to
the CypherPunks list that I printed out, but all of my
valueable research material is currently fused together,
due to it being hastily thrown into the back of my truck,
and then rained on, during my Fright From Fleedom Japanese 
Toulist Tlap that was inspired by my receiving indications 
that the abundant overgrowth that Government Authorities 
intended to mow down was not, as I had thought, in my back 
yard, but on my butt. [WAS: Stick Around, Pal, And our Ass 
Is Grass!]

  Anyway, despite the fact that I cannot even remember
the proper name or date of the conference (although I
have no problem remembering the name of the Plaza Hotel,
since it is the home of the Penny Slot Machines which
enable one to gamble feverishly for hours with the 
loose change they have scraped off the floor of their
vehicle, after having lost all the money they got by
pawning their grandmother's wedding ring), I have made
arrangements, during my recent Soft Kmart Tour Of
America, to have the winner of the conference's Spot
The Snark contest awarded a highly polished and fully
functional BackDoor into the Royal Canadian Mounted
Police computer system.
  The award, to be presented by the Offical Mascot of the
Spot The Snark contest, "Spot, the Snipe," unfortunately
does not have the immense value that one might think,
since it has been devalued by the recent proliferation
of a large number of BackDoors into Canadian Government
computer systems. Nonetheless, it will undoubtedly be
the source of countless hours of entertainment for the
lucky winner.

  The award to be presented in Lost Wages has officially
been named the 'Jim Bell InterNetional Back Door Revenge
Scholarship To The School Of Hard Knocks Cafe."
  It is an Army of Dog Scholarship meant to impress on
the Controllers that PayBack, like Oppression, has now
entered the Global Information Monitoring Age, and that 
the New Secret Squirrel Disorder is alive and well in 
ButtFuck, Canada.
{ If you can't fuck the one that fucked you, fuck someone
 that fucked someone else, and vice-versa, ad infinituum.}

  In short, any ShortLimpDickedPrick in ButtFuck, Canada,
can no longer be certain that HisOrHer violation of both
the laws of the land and the laws of human decency will
go unpunished, or that the Anonymous Avenger will not be
an entity totally unknown to them, from a distant place
such as Seattle, with little known connection to the
time and place of a monstrous crime against Monstrous
Oppressors. 
And, on the other hand (which has warts), when strange 
things begin to happen in the Seattle Court computer 
system, strangely connected to the StrangeButTrue! 
persecrotchion of a StrangeBedFellow of the Author,
James C. "The 'C' Stands For Dalton" Bell, the only
thing that Sharon can guarantee in Stone, is that the
obvious suspects at ASIX, the adopted parents of the
Author's SparCard II, have absolutely nothing to do
with the eerie laugh of Vincent 'Cate' Price echoing
through their system, since the Army of Dog doesn't
shit in it's own back yard (although it sometimes
pees in its kitchen sink, when the oung is occupied).

  In honor of the Royal Rogers Stuffed & Mounted Police 
currently celebrating their 150th birthday, I recently 
decided to present them with the ultimate gift.
  Realizing that I was far from alone in my position of
never being convicted of something I was actually guilty
of (we may not be guilty of breaking the law, but we are
all guilty of *something*--that's in the Bible, I think),
I came to the conclusion that the perfect birthday present
to the RCMP, on the occasion of being awarded their 150th 
consecutive 'Fascist Oppressor With The Best Public Image
Award,' would be to hand them my head on a silver platter,
enabling them to convict me on a charge of which I am
completely innocent (from a technical, legal standpoint),
and provide them with all of the information necessary
to ensure my Public Labelization (I won a game of Scrabble
with that word, once) as an Officially Recognized Monster,
as seen on 'Cops,' '60 Minutes,' 'Canada's Least Wanted,'
and 'World's Slowest Police Chases: The Return Of Beyond
The Valley Of The Planet Of Al Cowling.'

  I had originally intended for my gift to the RCMP to be
a professional, polished MultiMedia Entertainment Special,
but, since the thieving fucks stole my Toshiba Tecra in 
order to attempt to shut me the fuck up, I am forced to
hoist myself on my own petard in a strictly ASCII computer
environment (without a spell checker or thesaurus, so there
is little likelihood of my being able to discover, through
inference, what a petard actually is, or whether I have
spelled it ccoorreeccttllyy).
  Accordingly, the passages of the following chapters which
will describe in perverse, grotesque and disgusting detail
the nature of my crimes against sexual normality, will *not*
be accompanied with graphic, color illustrations, leaving 
the reader to use their own imagination, or to pay $ .01 per
minute by dialing 1-800-EAT-T0T0, to hear a heavy-breathing
tape-loop which provides excellent background stimulation
for the sexual imagination, as long as you can ignore the
fact that it is the tape of the Author, a sex-pack a day
chain-smoker, climbing a single flight of stairs.

  In the following chapter, the Author, still suffering
under the delusion that someone, somewhere, is reading
this tripe (besides college students attempting to gain
extra credits in a summer session psycho-ology class
titled, "An Analysis Of The Results Of Extensive Brain
Damage Caused By MKULTA Experiments On The Half-Unwitting
Author--Current Technology Cannot Detect Any Difference"),
provides complete details of HisOrHer first annual major
drug-deal, just as Canadian Authorities always suspected,
but could never prove.

Smoke 'em if you got 'em...
[ou may leave a message for the Author, at the sound of
 the Bong.]

  




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: customerservice@amesperf.com (Customer Service)
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 23:07:34 -0700 (PDT)
To: CYPHERPUNKS@toad.com (Lacey Hawkins)
Subject: Ames Performance Engineering: Catalog
Message-ID: <199807200604.CAA13057@crossroads.monad.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Monday, July 20, 1998 at 02:04:27 you responded to our Catalog form.

Thank you for requesting our catalog
Regards,
Customer Service
mailto:customerservice@amesperf.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ames Performance OnLine - http://www.amesperf.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 07:40:30 -0700 (PDT)
To: senator@torricelli.senate.gov
Subject: USCA and Out of Order
Message-ID: <35B3557F.152D@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Monday 7/20/98 8:07 AM

John Young

Saw Payne/Morales v. NSA: Response to USCA Orders     July 19, 1998

http://www.jya.com/whp071598.htm

Thank you and your helpers for all of the scanning work.

Morales and I talked on the phone last night about the next step.

We are going to move on the criminal privacy act violation. 
http://www.jya.com/snlhit.htm

Ninth Circuit judge Proctor Hug has not responded.

However, Ninth circuit Senior Case Expiditer Gwen Baptiste returned
my complaint.

This, of course, has earned Baptiste a criminal complaint affidavit to
be filed with Hug again.

Morales was very insistant last night about the seriousness about the
judiciary not doing their jobs.

Reason is that improper handling of valid complaints can lead to
frustrated
citizens - some of who might resort to socially unacceptable expressions
of
displeasure towards the judiciary.  

Like ARTICLES RELATED TO OKLAHOMA CITY BOMBING seen at
http://www.aci.net/kalliste/

Morales and I believe in using the law to fix the problem - now with
some
help from congress.

A Washington DC DOI whistleblower pointed me to the book,

  Out of Order : Arrogance, Corruption and Incompetence on the Bench - 
  Max Boot;       Hardcover

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0465054323/o/ref=qid_900944492/002-2724971-2249850

I read the Forward by Bjork on Friday afternoon.

I sure wish we could avoid unpleasantness I see coming by getting this
matter SETTLED.

Later
bill


Friday 5/1/98 9:48 AM
 
Certified   Return receipt requested

Cathy A Catterson, Clerk
Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals
121 Spear Street
POB 193939
San Francisco, CA 94119-9800
415 744 9800
 
Dear Clerk Catterson:

Purpose of this letter is to discover the REASON the criminal complaint 
addressed to Ninth circuit judge Proctor Hug  Jr dated Wednesday  4/1/98  11:02 AM was
returned to me WITHOUT COVER LETTER.

I attach a copy of the envelope the above material was enclosed.  

Return address is

	CLERK, U.S. COURT OF APPEALS
	P.O. BOX 547
	SAN FRANCISCO, CA 94101-0547

	OFFICIAL BUSINESS
	PENALTY FOR PRIVATE USE, 300

Postmark is SAN FRANCISCO, CALIF  APR 24 98 U.S. POSTAGE $2.62
METER 504753.

The envelope is hand-addressed and stamped CONFIDENTIAL.

Since no cover letter was enclosed to explain the return of what I believe is
both a valid and lawful criminal complaint affidavit supported by WRITTEN
EVIDENCE, some even in FILED court documents, I feel we must investigate
to discover the REASON.

All of the accused are federal employees or contractor employees.

Possibility exists that return of the enclosed criminal complaint affidavit without
cover letter stating the REASON may indicate violation of Title 18

  § 1512. Tampering with a witness, victim, or an informant 

  [(b)]  Whoever knowingly ...  corruptly persuades another  person, or  attempts to do so, or engages in 
misleading conduct toward another person, with intent to -  ...
 
  (2) cause or induce any person to - 
     (A) withhold testimony, or withhold a record, document, or other object, from an 
           official proceeding; ...
  (3) hinder, delay, or prevent the communication to a law enforcement officer or judge of the United     
        States of information relating to the commission or possible commission of a Federal offense ...
        shall be fined under  this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both. 
   (c) Whoever intentionally harasses another person and thereby hinders, delays, prevents, or dissuades any    
           person   from - ...
    (2) reporting to a law enforcement officer or judge of the United States the commission or possible
          commission of a Federal offense ...  or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not 
          more than one year, or both. 

Clerk Catterson, you may be aware  that under § 1512

  (d) In a prosecution for an offense under this section, it is an affirmative defense, as to which the defendant   
  has the  burden of proof by a preponderance of the evidence, that the conduct consisted solely of lawful 
  conduct ...

Therefore, I ask that you investigate to discover WHO returned the enclosed criminal complaint affidavit to 
me.

And report the REASON the criminal complaint affidavit was returned to me.

I ask that you respond within 30 days.

Sincerely,



William H. Payne
13015 Calle de Sandias NE
Albuquerque, NM 87111



Wednesday  4/1/98  11:02 AM

Certified   Return receipt requested

Proctor Hug  Jr
Chief Judge, Ninth Circuit
50 West Liberty 
Street
Reno, NV 89501-1948
(702) 784-5631
784-5166 fax


Dear judge Hug:


Purposes of this letter-affidavit are to file criminal complaint affidavits against

1  judge Marilyn Hall Patel for not properly processing a  criminal  violation of the Privacy Act, 

2  former Ninth Circuit chief judge J Clifford Wallace for not properly  processing criminal complaint affidavits for

    a  felony perjury violation by Sandia National Laboratories lawyer  Gregory Cone,

    b  judge Fern Smith for not properly processing a felony perjury  violation by Sandia National Laboratories    
      lawyer Gregory Cone. 

    c  Albuquerque FBI special agent in charge Thomas Kneir for sending  FBI agents Kohl and Schum to my 
        home in an attempt to intimidate me from exercising my civil rights.
   
    d  Margret D. Thomas, Judicial Assistant to the Honorable Marilyn Hall  Patel, for not forwarding a valid 
        criminal complaint affidavit  regarding a criminal violation of the Privacy Act to Patel.

Brief history would be valuable for your understanding of this matter.

  Sandia has long been involved with the security of America's nuclear  arsenal. As they announce on their website: "We are funded primarily by  the U.S. Department of Energy to design all the non-nuclear opponents of  the nation's nuclear weapons" 
   
http://www.sandia.gov/">http://www.sandia.gov/). 

  This includes the cryptographic locks used to secure the nukes.  

  NSA supplies the algorithms and implementation guidelines to Sandia.  
  
http://www.aci.net/kalliste/nukearse.htm

In about 1982 I became project leader of the Missile Secure Cryptographic Unit [MSCU].

The MSCU was funded by the National Security Agency [NSA].

As a result of my about 4 year work with NSA, I was given access to its cryptographic algorithms by one document and many electronic schematics.

I wrote a book

            ISBN: 0125475705
            Title: Embedded Controller Forth For The 8051 Family
            Author: Payne
		Cover: Hardback/Cloth
            Imprint: Academic Press
            Published: September 1990

http://www.apcatalog.com/cgi-bin/AP?ISBN=0125475705&LOCATION=US&FORM=FORM2

about the software technology we used for the MSCU.

In 1986 I transferred to build the data authenticator for the Department of Energy's Deployable Seismic Verification System [DSVS]for the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty [CTBT].

NSA liaison for the DSVS/CTBT project offered information to me that NSA regarded former president Reagan as one of the US's foremost traitors for the reason  

  First, U.S. President Ronald Reagan informed the world on national television that the United States was     
  reading Libyan communications.  This admission was part  of a speech justifying the retaliatory bombing of 
  Libya for  its alleged involvement in the La Belle discotheque   bombing in Berlin's Schoeneberg district, 
  where two U.S.  soldiers and a Turkish woman were killed, and 200 others  injured. Reagan wasn't talking 
  about American monitoring of   Libyan news broadcasts. Rather, his "direct,  precise, and  undeniable proof" 
  referred to secret (encrypted) diplomatic  communication between Tripoli and the Libyan embassy in East 
  Berlin.

http://www.aci.net/kalliste/speccoll.htm

which is further explained at http://caq.com/CAQ/caq63/caq63madsen.html

  It may be the greatest intelligence scam of the century: For decades, the US has routinely intercepted and
  deciphered top secret encrypted messages of 120 countries.

In early 1992 a Sandia labs director decided that he and his subordinates were going to enter the data authentication business.

The director transferred me to break electronic locks for the Federal Bureau of Investigation.  

This work was funded by the FBI/Engineering Research Facility [FBI/ERF], Quantico, VA.

I ordered about $200,000 of the FBI/ERF's money buying two copies of electronic locks.

One lock I ordered was the Hirsch Scramblepad electronic lock.

In about 1991 I was following progress of lawsuits in the district of Northern California,

  The first two cases to directly address the issue of  intermediate copying both originated in California's
  Northern District Court.  They are Atari v. Nintendo and  Sega v. Accolade.  In both cases, the district court 
  found that intermediate copying was NOT fair use.

  [The New Use of Fair Use:  Accessing Copyrighted Programs Through 
  Reverse Engineering, Stephen B. Maebius, Journal of the Patent and 
  Trademark Office Society, June 1993, 75, n6, p433]

Judge Fern Smith presided in both cases.

Reason I was following Atari v Nintendo was that I my Forth book I have two chapters on reverse engineering software.

One chapter contains a computer program which copied a ROM BIOS to diskette.

Smith's decisions made my intermediate copying program illegal.

  In a strong opinion she [Fern Smith] wrote in March 1991,  when granting Nintendo's request for a           
  preliminary  injunction against Atari, she lambasted Atari's lawyers for  thievery.

I was given the job assignment to copy the ROMs of Hirsch's 8051-based Scramblepad electronic lock to reverse engineer them to hopefully allow me to modify the locks for allow surreptitious entry.

I refused to engage in illegal activity for the FBI.

The termination letter seen at http://jya.com/whpfiles.htm states

  This is to advise you that effective July 27, 1992, you  will be terminated from Sandia National Laboratories.   
  This action is the results of your flagrant attack on a valued   Sandia customer and repeated insensitivity to 
  security/classification requirement.  These acts violate   Sandia National Laboratories Code of Conduct, 
  specifically  the Personal Conduct section,, and the Safeguarding  Information and Records Section. ...

for my whistleblowing SAND report on the National Security Agency's deficient work and refusing to mark classified on a report I and Danny Drummond wrote on how to fake Wiegand Wire access entry credentials for the FBI.

Both I and my EEOC complaint officer Ray Armenta were never able to determine exactly why I was fired.

However March 22, 1997 I received copies of the enclosed

  1  April 15, 1994 letter to EEOC director Charles Burtner  from Sandia Diversity Leadership director 
      Michael G. Robles.

  2  July 27, 1997 Termination of Employment memorandum containing my signature.

  3  DISCIPLINARY REVIEW COMMITTEE MINUTES, July 16, 1992.

  4  DISCIPLINARY REVIEW COMMITTEE MINUTES, July 6, 1989.

  5  September 6, 1995 letter from EEOC Investigator Larry J. 
     Trujillo to Richard Gallegos.

from Sandian Richard Gallegos.

Sandia lawyer Harold Folley previously stated that no documents existed.

The Privacy Act states

  (d) Access to Records.--Each agency that maintains a system
  of records shall--
            (1) upon request by any individual to gain access
        to his record or to any information pertaining to him
        which is contained in the system, permit him and upon
        his request, a person of his own choosing to accompany
        him, to review the record and have a copy made of all
        or any portion thereof in a form comprehensible to him,
        except that the agency may require the individual to
        furnish a written statement authorizing discussion of
        that individual's record in the accompanying person's
        presence;

The Sandia Disciplinary Review Committee NEVER interviewed me to check the veracity of their statements.

The Privacy Act states

  (2) permit the individual to request amendment of a record pertaining to     
  him and--

The statements in the SDRC are incorrect. I followed all Sandia procedures known to me.  I did nothing wrong.

I had no opportunity to defend myself.  My rights guaranteed under the Constitution, Bill of Rights, Article XIV.

  Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and   
  subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the  United States  
  and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any 
  law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the 
  United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, 
  or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within 
  its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

have been violated.

C My permission was never asked to release these records to Gallegos.

As you may realize about the Privacy Act

  (b) Conditions of Disclosure.--No agency shall disclose any
  record which is contained in a system of records by any means
  of communication to any person, or to another agency, except
  pursuant to a written request by, or with the prior written
  consent of, the individual to whom the record pertains ...

The Privacy Act allows imposition of criminal penalties for those like members of the SDRC, Robles, Burtner,  and Trujillo who 

  (i)(1) Criminal Penalties.--Any officer or employee of an
  agency, who by virtue of his employment or official position,
  has possession of, or access to, agency records which contain
  individually identifiable information the disclosure of which
  is prohibited by this section or by rules or regulations
  established thereunder, and who knowing that disclosure of the
  specific material is so prohibited, willfully discloses the
  material in any manner to any person or agency not entitled to
  receive it, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and fined not more
  than $5,000.
    (2) Any officer or employee of any agency who willfully
  maintains a system of records without meeting the notice
  requirements of subsection (e)(4) of this section shall be
  guilty of a misdemeanor and fined not more than $5,000.

I forward criminal complaint affidavits on the above individuals to selected magistrate judge Marilyn Hall Patel.

Patel ignored my complaints. 

I return to the subject of breaking electronic locks for the FBI/ERF.

Smith's two decisions were overturned on appeal.

  However, both cases have been overruled on appeal. In the
  ground-breaking Atari decision, the Federal Circuit held
  that intermediate copying was a fair use.  The Sega
  decision, which was appealed to the Ninth Circuit Court of
  Appeals, similarly overruled the district court and held
  that intermediate copying may be fair use.

Sandia patents and trademark lawyer Gregory A. Cone in the enclosed affidavit for a ADEA lawsuit I filed in the District of New Mexico stated

  AFFIDAVIT OF GREGORY A. CONE

  Gregory A. Cone, being duly sworn, deposes and states:

  1. I am employed by Sandia Corporation.  I am an attorney
  admitted to practice law in the State of California and before the
  U. S. Patent and Trademark Office and concentrate on legal issues
  related to patent and copyright law.  In that capacity, I am 
  familiar with activities at the Sandia National Laboratories
  ("Sandia") as they related to what is sometimes referred to as
  "reverse engineering ." ...

  [I]t is the general view at Sandia that disassembly of "object
  code" under such circumstances constitutes a "fair use" of
  copyrighted software under 17 U.S.C. article 107 and is thus
  permissible.  Sandia bases its view on Sega Enterprises v.
  Accolade, Inc. 977 F.2d 1510, 24 U.S.P. Q. 2d 1561 (9th Cir.
  1992), amended, 1993 U. S. App. LEXIS 78, and Atari Games Corp
  v. Nintendo of America, Inc, 975 F.2d 832 (Fed. Cir. 
  1992).  ...

  FURTHER, Affidavit sayeth naught.
                                 
  (signed)
  GREGORY A. CONE

  SUBSCRIBED, SWORN TO and ACKNOWLEDGED before me on this 12th
  day of August, 1993, by Gregory A. Cone."
  (signed)
  Mary A. Resnick

  Notary Public

  My Commission Expires:

  2-7-94

Cone has the two citations reversed.  The U. S. Patent Quarterly references the Atari v Nintendo lawsuit 1510 should be corrected to 1015.

Cone issued the above affidavit to District of New Mexico federal court in attempt to show that I had no legal reason to refuse to  reverse engineer the Hirsch Scramblepad electronic lock.

I was covered under 10 C.F.R. 708 - DOE CONTRACTOR EMPLOYEE PROTECTION PROGRAM for my refusal to reverse engineer the Hirsch Scramblepad code.   

  708.1 Purpose,
  This part establishes procedures for timely and effective 
  processing of complaints by employees of contractors performing
  work at sites owned or leased by the Department of Energy (DOE),
  concerning alleged discriminatory actions taken by their employers
  in retaliation for the disclosure of information relative to health 
  and safety, mismanagement, and other matters as provided in 708.5(a),
  for participation in proceeding before Congress, or for the refusal
  to engage in illegal or dangerous activities." ...

Cone's affidavit attempts to create the appearance that reverse engineering was legal before July 27, 1992, the date of my firing.

  Title 18, Chapter 79, Article 1623 felony perjury.     

  Article 1623 - False declarations before grand jury or court
 (a) Whoever under oath (or in any declaration, certificate,
 verification, or statement under penalty of perjury as permitted 
 under section 1746 of title 28, United States Code) in any
 proceeding before or ancillary to any court or grand jury of
 the United States knowingly make any false material declaration 
 or makes or uses any other information, including any book, paper,
 document, record, recording, or other material, knowing the same
 to contain any false material declaration, shall be fined not more
 than $10,000 or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.
 
Decision of the Atari Games Corp. v. Nintendo of America appeal cited at page 1016 from 24 USPQ 2d was Decided SEPTEMBER 10, 1992.  

I was fired JULY 27, 1992 so my work assignment was illegal at the time I refused.

Therefore, Cone committed felony perjury IN WRITING filed with New Mexico District Federal Court.

Chronological review of criminal complaint affidavits would be valuable before I present the current criminal complaint affidavits.

1  Monday March 11, 1996 10:05 I wrote judge Fern Smith a certified return receipt requested letter to ask her to either arrange or personally indict Sandia lawyer Cone for felony perjury.

Smith did not respond.

2 Friday May 31, 1996 08:58 I write the criminal complaint affidavit for the arrest of Sandia lawyer Cone and appoint judge Fern Smith as magistrate.

3 Thursday June 13 on orders of Smith and Albuquerque FBI special agent in charge Thomas Kneir FBI agents Kohl and Schum visited my home at 17:08 to investigate me for sending letters referenced in 1 and 2 to Smith.

4  In response to 3 on Tuesday July 9, 1996 06:52 I filed criminal complaint affidavit against Cone, again, for felony perjury with J. Clifford Wallace, chief judge, Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals.  

Smith for

  § 4. Misprision of felony 

  Whoever, having knowledge of the actual commission of a felony cognizable   
  by a court of the United States, conceals and  does not as soon as possible make 
  known the same to some judge or other   person in civil or military authority under the
  United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more  than three years, 
  or both.

for Smith's failure to properly process Cone's felony perjury and
  
  § 241. Conspiracy against rights 

  If two or more persons conspire to injure, oppress, threaten, or   
  intimidate any person in any State, Territory, or District in
  the free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege secured to him 
  by the Constitution or laws of the United States, or because of his   
  having so exercised the same; ...

for sending, with Knier, FBI agents Kohl and Schum to my home in an attempt to intimidate me.

Knier for Conspiracy against rights for his complicity with Smith.

5  Monday July 15, 1996 06:23 I write Wallace again inquiring why he has not 
responded.

6  August 15, 1996 Thursday Ms. Corina Orozco, Deputy Clerk, Ninth Circuit 
Court of Appeals writes me to tell me

  In the future, all correspondence should be addressed to the
  Clerk of the Court.  Do not address any correspondence to
  any one specific judge of this court.

7  September 12, 1996 06:20 I inform Orozco by letter that she is obstructing justice.   I ask Orozco to desist.

8 July 25, 1996 Senior Case Expeditor [sic], Gwen Baptiste from the Office of the Clerk, United States Court of Appeals for The Ninth Circuit, writes

         Re: Complaint of Judicial Misconduct

      We have received your complaint of judicial misconduct.
      Pursuant to the Rules of the Judicial Council of the Ninth
      Circuit Governing Complaints of Judicial Misconduct or
      Disability, you complaint is being returned to you for
      compliance with the above rules.  A copy of these rules is
      enclosed.  To understand the purpose of the procedure and
      who may be complaint about please refer to Rules 1 and 2.

9  Wednesday September 18, 1996 11:05 by certified, return receipt requested mail I write Wallace again told tell him

  Lawyer Wallace, I did not intend to file or did I file a
  complaint of judicial misconduct.

  Lawyer Wallace, I filed a criminal complaint affidavit as I have
  a right to as a citizen of the United States of America when the
  criminal acts are committed by government personnel, their
  contractors, Department of Justice and judicial personnel.

10  Wednesday November 27, 1996 09:18 I wrote certified, return receipt requested letter to inform Wallace

  Purpose of this letter is to inform you of consequences of your failure   
  to perform your duties as required by law as magistrate judge.  You are 
  committing felony violations of law.

and

  If I have not complied with all applicable rules, then I ask that you 
  inform me of any non-compliance so that I can correct my criminal 
  complaints and re-submit them.

  I satisfied the requirement of the Constitution and Rules 3 and 4, and 
  issued written and sworn complaints that set forth the essential facts 
  constituting the offenses charged against Smith, Kneir, and Cone.  I 
  also showed facts showing that the offenses were committed by Smith, 
  Kneir and Cone and these individuals committed them.

  So I ask that you do your job and proceed with supervision of the 
  arrest and prosecution of Smith, Kneir, and Cone for title 18 felony 
  violations of law.

11  Monday March 24, 1997 17:57 I write a certified - return receipt requested letter to Marilyn Hall Patel, District Judge; California,  Northern to inform her she has been selected as magistrate to process the criminal complaint affidavit against Sandia Diversity Director Michael G. Robles for sending the enclosed SDRC report to Burtner of EEOC.

Robles did this without my written permission and without checking the accuracy of the information.  The information contained in the SDRC report is false and defaming.

12  Monday April 21, 1997 13:44 I write Patel a certified - return receipt requested letter containing a criminal complaint affidavit against Charles L Burtner, Director, U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission [EEOC] Larry J. Trujillo, Investigator, Phoenix District Office for sending the false and libelous enclosed documents to Richard Gallegos in Albuquerque without my written consent.

13 Thursday May 8, 1997 06:30 I write a certified - return receipt requested to Patel containing

  Purpose of this letter is to file a criminal complaint 
  affidavit against Sandia National Laboratories [Sandia]  
  Disciplinary Review Committee members and attendees G. H. 
  Libman, R.A. Polocasz,  D. B. Davis,  M. E. Courtney,  
  W. R. Geer, C. A. Searls, J. D.  Giachino,  R. L. Ewing,  
  A. M. Torneby, R. B. Craner,  C. W. Childers,  E. Dunckel,  
  D. S. Miyoshi, J. J McAuliffe,  J. D. Martin, and  R. C. 
  Bonner for violation of the criminal penalties section of 
  the Privacy Act, 5 USC 552a(i)(2) and Title 18 felony 
  violations of Civil Rights, Section 241, Conspiracy against 
  right to citizens.

for their roles in maintaining an illegal system of records.

Sandia refused to acknowledge existence of the enclosed SDRC report and for denying my rights guaranteed under the Constitution.

I was never interviewed by the SDRC committee or had any chance to defend my self against the false and defaming claims of the SDRC.

14 Friday June 13, 1997 12:41 I write a certified, return receipt requested to Wallace containing a criminal complaint affidavit against Margret D. Thomas, Judicial Assistant to the Honorable 
Marilyn Hall Patel for violating  

  § 1512. Tampering with a witness, victim, or an informant ...
  (C) prevent the communication by any person to a law enforcement officer  
  or judge of the United States of information relating to the commission  
  or possible commission of a Federal offense ...
  (3) hinder, delay, or prevent the communication to a law enforcement 
  officer or judge of the United States of information relating to the   
  commission or possible commission of a Federal offense ...
  shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or  
  both. 

for writing on May 9, 1997

	Dear Mr. Payne:

		We are in receipt of your recent letters.  Please
	be advised that we do not issue warrants on criminal 
	proceeding absent an indictment, information or complaint
	initiated by the United States Attorney.  For this reason,
	and by copy of this letter, we are referring this matter
	to that office.  Any future correspondence concerning these
	events should be sent to the United States Attorney and not
	to judge Patel.  Thank you.

				Very truly yours,

				MARGARET D. THOMAS
				Judicial Assistant to the Honorable
				Marilyn Hall Patel

	cc:  Joel Levin
 	      Criminal Section
	      Assistant United States Attorney

Judge Hug, Rule 3 of the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure,  entitled the Complaint provides:

   The complaint is a written statement of the essential facts  constituting the offense charged.   It shall be   
  made upon  oath before a magistrate.

As you may be aware,

  An individual may "make a written complaint on oath before an  examining and committing magistrate, and 
  obtain a warrant of  arrest."  This is in conformity with the Federal Constitution,   and "consonant with the 
  principles of natural justice and    personal liberty found in the common law."
   
   [United States v Kilpatrick (1883, DC NC) 16G 765, 769]

You may also be aware,

   A complaint though quite general in terms is valid if it  sufficiently apprises the defendant of the nature of 
   the offense with which he is charged.

   [United States v Wood (1927, DC Tex) 26F2d 908, 910, affd 
   (CA5 Tex) 26 F2d 912.]

And for your edification,

   The commission of a crime must be shown by facts positively stated.  The oath or affirmation required is of 
   facts and not  opinions or conclusion.

   [United States ex rel. King v Gokey (1929, DC NY) 32 F2d
    93, 794]

   The complaint must be accompanied by an oath.

   [Re Rules of Court (1877, CC Ga) 3 Woods 502, F Cas No
    2126]

   A complaint must be sworn to before a commissioner or other  officer empowered to commit persons 
   charged with offenses  against the United States.

   [United States v Bierley ( 1971, WD Pa) 331 F Supp 1182]

   Such office is now called a magistrate.

   A complaint is ordinarily made by an investigating officer or  agent, and where private citizens seek 
   warrants of arrest, the    practice recommended by the Judicial Conference of the United 
   States is to refer the complaint to the United States Attorney.    However, further reference to him is 
   rendered futile where a   mandamus proceeding is brought to compel him to prosecute and 
   he opposes the proceeding.

   [Pugach v Klein (1961, SD NY) 193 F Supp 630, citing Manual
    for United States Commissioners 5 (1948)]

Any attempt to bring criminal complaints to government authorities would, of course, be futile.

I am a citizen of the United States and, judge Hug, you are the assigned magistrate.

   In order to satisfy the requirement of the Constitution and Rules 3 and 4, a written and sworn complaint 
   should set forth   the essential facts constituting the offense charged and also    facts showing that the offense 
   was committed and that the  defendant committed it.

And,

   As to the requirement that the complaint be made on personal knowledge of the complainant, it is enough 
   for the issuance of a warrant that a complainant shows it to be on the  knowledge of the complainant.

   [Giordenello v United States (1958) 357 US 480, 2 L Ed. 2d
    1503, 78 S Ct 1245, rev. (Ca5 Tx) 241 F2d 575, 579 in accord
    Rice v Ames (1901) 180 US 371, 45 L Ed 577, 21 S ct 406, and
    United States v Walker, (1952, CA2 NY) 197 F 2d 287, 289,
    cert den 344 US 877, 97 L Ed 679, 73 S Ct 172]

So as to keep contiguous the requirements of the law ad the criminal complaint affidavit, I will include these complaints in this letter to you.

      CRIMINAL COMPLAINT AFFIDAVIT:  J Clifford Wallace

Essential material facts are:
     
1 Tuesday July 9, 1996 06:52 Payne files criminal complaint affidavit on Sandia lawyer Cone for felony perjury with J Clifford Wallace, chief judge, Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals and judge Fern Smith for 
Misprision of felony for failure to prosecute Cone and Conspiracy against rights for sending, with FBI Albuquerque agent-in-charge Knier, FBI agents Kohl and Schum to Payne's home in an attempt to intimidate Payne.

2  Repeated attempts by certified return receipt requested mail to urge Wallace to do his job enumerated to 5-10 and 14 above in this letter go unanswered.

Count 1  Wallace made no attempt to bring lawyer Cone to justice despite possessing WRITTEN evidence of criminal activity.  Therefore,  Wallace is charged with Title 18   § 4. Misprision of felony for Wallace's failure to properly process criminal complaint affidavit.

Count 2  Wallace made no attempt to bring judge Fern Smith to justice despite possessing WRITTEN evidence of misprision of felony for not properly processing the criminal complaint affidavit against lawyer Cone and § 1512. Tampering with a witness, victim, or an informant for sending FBI agents Kohl and Schum to Payne's home in an attempt to intimidate Payne. Therefore , Wallace is charged with Title 18   § 4. Misprision of felony for Wallace's failure to properly process a criminal complaint affidavit.

Count 3  Wallace made no attempt to bring FBI agent-in-charge to justice for violation of § 1512. Tampering with a witness, victim, or an informant for sending FBI agents Kohl and Schum to Payne's home in an attempt to intimidate Payne. Wallace is charged with Title 18   § 4. Misprision of felony for Wallace's failure to properly process a criminal complaint affidavit.

Count 4  Wallace made no attempt to bring MARGARET D. THOMAS to justice for violation of   § 1512. Tampering with a witness, victim, or an informant ... for writing Thomas' May 9, 1997 to Payne. Wallace is charged with Title 18   § 4. Misprision of felony for Wallace's failure to properly process a criminal complaint affidavit.

                             	VERIFICATION

    	Under penalty of perjury as provided by law, the undersigned certifies 	pursuant to 28 USC section 
              1746 that material factual statements set forth in this criminal complaint are true and correct, except   
              as to any matters therein stated to be information and belief of such matters the undersigned certifies 
              as aforesaid that the undersigned verily believes the same to be true.



          	Date               William H. Payne
                                    13015 Calle de Sandias NE
                                    Albuquerque, NM 87111
                                    505-292-7037


      CRIMINAL COMPLAINT AFFIDAVIT: Marilyn Hall Patel

Essential material facts are:
     
1 Patel failed to respond to certified return receipt requested criminal complaint affidavits specified in 11 - 13 in this letter.

Count 1  Patel made did not properly process criminal complaint affidavits despite being in possession of documents showing criminal violations of the Privacy Act and violation of civil rights. Therefore,  Patel is charged with Title 18   § 4. Misprision of felony for Patel's failure to properly process criminal complaint affidavits.

                             	VERIFICATION

    	Under penalty of perjury as provided by law, the undersigned certifies 	pursuant to 28 USC section 
              1746 that material factual statements set forth in this criminal complaint are true and correct, except   
              as to any matters therein stated to be information and belief of such matters the undersigned certifies 
              as aforesaid that the undersigned verily believes the same to be true.



          	Date                William H. Payne
                                    13015 Calle de Sandias NE
                                    Albuquerque, NM 87111
                                    505-292-7037

Judge Hug, I have been  extremely patient with judges and clerks of the district of Northern California and Ninth Circuit.  

Criminal compliant affidavits were filed between March 11, 1996 and June 13, 1997.

Nothing has happened as of April 1, 1998.

I ask that you 

  1  issue warrants of arrest or
  2  inform me why you cannot proceed to do what I request

within 60 calendar days.

Smith's case is particularly egregious. 

Smith and Albuquerque FBI agent in charge James K. Weber, who replaced Kneir, sent US Marshals Lester and Lopez to my home on  January 24, 1997 in a second attempt to intimidate me.

Anotin Scalia was appointed magistrate to process criminal complaint affidavits against Smith and others for the second intimidation attempt.

Sincerely,



William H. Payne
13015 Calle de Sandias NE
Albuquerque, NM 87111

					VERIFICATION

	Under penalty of perjury as provided by law, the undersigned certifies 	pursuant to 28 USC section 
              1746 that material factual statements set forth in this criminal complaint are true and correct, except   
              as to any matters therein stated to be information and belief of such matters the undersigned certifies 
              as aforesaid that the undersigned verily believes the same to be true.



          	Date               William H. Payne
                                    13015 Calle de Sandias NE
                                    Albuquerque, NM 87111
                                    505-292-7037


Enclosures
Privacy Act criminal violation documents, 11 pages
AFFIDAVIT OF GREGORY A. CONE,  4 pages
May 9, 1997 letter from MARGARET D. THOMAS, 1 page




13






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: gendexer@technologist.com
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 06:27:16 -0700 (PDT)
To: tcmay@netcom.com
Subject: Fwd: GENDEX.NET TO REORGANIZE CIVILIZATION rev. 18
Message-ID: <199807201327.JAA14281@web02.globecomm.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


INTRODUCTION
> 
>      First there were pocket calculators, then personal memory
> organizers (PMO's), and next fully operating computers the size of a
> personal check book. 
>        Now the latest device to join the personal electronic evolution
> is a palm sized unit that fits easily in a shirt or purse pocket and
> is unlike anything you've seen before. Called a GENDEX, it not only
> keeps track of people data and personal appointments, it can also
> track personal or business expenses and serve as a depository
> and dispensary for real time monetary transactions over the Internet.
> And for those with email, just have it forwarded directly to your
> GENDEX.
>         What strikes you first about the GENDEX is its size - just
> seven inches by 3.5" and 3/8" deep - small enough to be carried almost
> anywhere - like an "electronic wallet". The second thing that you
> notice is its unusual keyboard - again, unlike anything else you've
> ever seen or used.
>         At first, the keyboard seems strange and undecipherable -
> instead of the usual QWERTY layout in rows, the keys are arranged in a
> circle on the small, one-finger keyboard, with the most common letters 
> in the inner circle. It's strange until you begin to use it. As you
> catch on to the pattern, you begin to see the benefit of the
> one-handed, one-finger layout, and most people quickly attain fairly
> high data entry rates with very little practice.
>         But it's not only this unusual keyboard that make the GENDEX
> different - and useful. Its the fact that the GENDEX can store,
> receive, and transmit financial data and monetary units over any
> financial network, including secure radio and Internet transmissions.
> Imagine being anywhere, buying or selling anything, and being able to
> complete the transaction with you hand-held personal bank. (In the
> future, it will even include a bar code reader to scan in any item or
> price!)
>         The GENDEX has been designed with the computer illiterate in
> mind. The keypad is simple looking with a minimum of entry keys, and
> every action and transaction is prompted for the next step. Just
> "follow the bouncing ball" and it steps you through anything you want
> to do with a minimum of learning time.
>         It's also designed to be used in any weather, dropped, sat on,
> stepped on, etc. The unique patentable self locking case is
> waterproof, shock proof, breakproof and, most importantly, idiot
> proof...instead of reaching for your wallet, in the future, many
> thousands of people will be reaching for their GENDEX. Programmed in
> JAVA with user replaceable chip sets, the GENDEX is easily upgradable
> as new features and uses come out.
>         The universally-usable GENDEX Java software will hopefully be
> available by the year's end. Until then, you'll just have to stay with
> using old fashioned credit cards, hand written checks, and nearly
> obsolete cash and currency. To check out a live demonstration of the
> GENDEX and its functions, visit the GENDEX website at http://gendex.net.
> 
> 
> ORGANIZER LOGIC REACHES UNDENIABLY EASY TO USE STATE
>  
>     Gendex organizer logic is now the most idiotproof and clearly easy
> to understand organizer logic in the world. Thanks to the efforts of
> an entrepreneurial team, a logical prototype has been crafted in the
> Java programming language and is open for testing at
> http://gendex.net. This was finally accomplished after many years of
> logic design by some clearly ingenious persons.
>      This new logic works with the seventeen key input and
> classification system developed by DEXCOM over numerous iterations.
> There are 4 main memory keys, 7 system keys, 4 arrow keys that move
> the cursor or scroll the display, and YES & NO keys. Each of the main
> memory keys opens with a table containing all the main functions you
> can do in that division of the memory organizer. Each of the
> functions, when selected, opens into a list of variations. These are
> called TABLES, and there are four, AGENDA, PEOPLE, MONEY and NOTES. 
> 	Ease-of-use comes from consistent application of ENTRY, INDEX and
> FIND system keys. HELP is ready to pop-up at any time to give the user
> easy to understand directions and options.
> 	By keying SYSTEM, Utilities like e-mail in/out, secure-unviolatable
> memory storage upload, communications carrier select, edit
> scratchpads, output port control, e-bank selection, proper
> calculators, smart power monitors, thesaurus/dictionary, and language
> translation are accessible within any memory function.
> 	The demonstration on the website can be played with manually using
> the selecting device and keying functional buttons. Soon a new control
> panel will be added, so that the demonstration can be played
> automatically by pressing the purposefully direct logic sequence keys.
> The automatic links shall have a 
> player piano effect - eventually more than 111 functional logic
> strings  so that even the passive websurfer can instruct himself about
> many things this unit does. 
> 	The logical prototype works in newest browsers, and there is a
> download assist button on the website to bring the latest browser into
> your own computer.
> 	What is happening now in DEXCOM is a team of five time-investing
> engineers are working toward completing a logical prototype. That is
> leading to completion of a working software product.
> 	The next step for the company will be to license the Gendex logic
> system for use to the makers of the many hard-to-use and complicated
> handheld and PDA systems already in user's hands. The first company
> product is a software disk that adds the friendly usable gendex
> functions to products like the H-P 620 handheld.
> 
> 
> Interested Parties:
> 
> DEXCOM USA Inc. is introducing its ultimate electronic personal memory
> organizer (Gendex EPMO). Gendex keeps track of Agenda, Money, People
> and Notes, and more. Gendex is the perfect vehicle for financial
> networks sending money via secure data radio, and over the internet.
> Gendex software will be available for purchase. It has all the
> easy-to-use logical prompts, and on-line real-time help functions to
> assist in all
> forms of transactions and memory recording. No other product in the
> market has all the ease of use and understandability built into it
> that Gendex does. This is the breakthru. Nearly all the others are
> expert systems requiring extensive training to use all functions.
> Gendex hardware will be available before the year 2000. It is
> waterproof, breakproof, and pocket sized. Its multichip module design
> will be widely licensed for lowest cost to the consumer. The company
> will brand name its own highest quality unit, and grade and distribute
> components made by world class manufacturers working under our
> lisences. Our designs utilize the latest technologies that can be made
> accessible to mass markets. 
> On the website is a fully animated gendex shell opening; it also now
> working logical prototype.
> Price per privately issued share of DEXCOM USA Inc. stock just
> quadrupled to $4, and is approaching IPO, with the potential for an
> eight way stock split.
> 
> 
> GENDEX.NET TO REORGANIZE CIVILIZATION
> 
> NEVER BE LATE 
> The advanced timekeeping and AGENDA scheduling functions that make it
> possible to schedule and remember one-time events, recurring events,
> and even place events in someone else's schedule (if they don't
> prevent you from doing so). This will eliminate a lot of potential
> embarassment to those who may forget about where they said they would
> be.
> 
> TELEPHONES
> Thanks to internet telephony, and the presence of speaker & microphone
> on the unit, and headsets for the pocketsized gendex, both cellular
> phones and home phones, and their networks, will have a lot less to
> do. This is because internet telephony is practically free, even for
> long distance calls.
> 
> PAPER MONEY
> The hazards and time consuming processes of making change will be
> replaced with the ease of sending money optically to smart cash
> registers and vending machines, parking meters etc., with optical
> interfaces to money registrars with radio outputs. (Of course, 'users'
> are subject to national banking laws.)
> 
> ELECTRONIC FUNDS TRANSFER
> People will be able to receive and pay bills, and send each other
> money over secure data networks. Gendex has all necessary logic to
> set-up and actualize transactions.
> 
> CREDIT CARDS
> Credit organizations will become E-BANKs using Gendex hardware and
> software, because it cuts costs. Until then, Gendex hardware has the
> power to directly write money to mag stripe cards. Ultimately,
> Gendex.net will send a lot of plastic to the scrap heap.
> 
> RIDECALL
> Eliminates superfluous automobiles by providing people you like (based
> on lifestyle) with rides to where they need to go, as you make money.
> This is coordinated by Gendex.net. Meet new friends, too.
> 
> MONITORING THE HONESTY OF YOUR LOCAL BANK
> Those who maintaing their files in CONVENTIONAL BANK ACCOUNTS
> MANAGEMENT will be able to keep track of interest they should be
> paying you, ATM costs, other banking costs and penalties to monitor
> accuracy of your local bank.
> 
> TRADING AND SELLING OVER THE NET
> Every kind of service or material goods will eventually be listed in
> the Bought,Buy,Sell&Trade INDEX. Gendex logic will enable everybody to
> sell or trade their goods and services, through Indexers who are
> already specialists in their respective fields. These Indexers do not
> work for gendex.net, rather they remain independant, while gendex.net
> takes a very small commission each time electronic banks transfer money.
> 
> FORMATS
> Prompted data entry of frequently repeated questions, coupled with
> radio access to remote data bases will eliminate clipboards and paper
> forms used in all repetitive data entry used in professional purposes.
> Gendex.net will create a library of tens of thousands of different
> formats for use by government, industry, military, courts, medical,
> and professionals in every walk of life. And these can be sent by
> radio to the Thousands of typists working in data entry jobs will need
> to find something else to do.
> 
> TAX DEDUCTIONS
> Every taxpayer who can write off business expenses will never lose
> expense records, and find many advantages with Gendex' advanced
> recording capabilities.
> 
> PHARMACY.NET
> Gendex prompted data entry and secure verification will eliminate the
> problem of reading doctor's cryptic handwriting. From NOTES, doctors
> specify treatments. A pharmacist in a van will come driving up to your
> house to serve the prescription rendered by doctors.
> 
> MEDICAL HISTORY
> Whatever ails you, and when, and how, can be recorded so that after
> you're dead, and they do the autopsy, they will have something to go on.
> 
> TELEVISION INTERNET REMOTE CONTROL
> Gendex EPMO hardware, with its highpowered bidirectional infrared
> port, can replace the intelligent aspect of internet boxes designed to
> bring internet via cable to people's living room televisions. 
> 
> SMART LOCKS ACCESS
> In the future, metal door locks will be replaced with a glass plate
> guarding an optically activated solenoid. This will enable smart
> systems in buildings to record who passed thru a door, when, and/or to
> execute decisions about who is authorized to pass. It can even require
> remittance of money, or act as a time clock for workers. Gendex EPMO
> hardware, with its bidirectional infrared port can handle all these
> transactions.
> 
> TRUCKERS LOGBOOK
> Over the road drivers will be able to accurately maintain records of
> how much time they spent driving, and what happened at points of
> delivery. With GPS attachment, trucker will always know where he is.
> 
> PROFESSIONAL TIME LOG
> Consultants who charge in small increments for time spent advising
> clients will benefit readily by the functions provided in this logic.
> 
> SPEAKING TRANSLATOR
> An issued unit of Gendex hardware or software will typically handle as
> many languages in its interface as one chooses to download.
> Ultimately, Gendex is intended to be able to handle all of input of
> characters in the users language, translation to another language like
> English or Japanese, and speaking that language via its speaker to
> listening "barbarians". 
> 
> You may argue that all these things are happening anyway, and indeed,
> some of them are. The difference here is that gendexes can be given
> away free to customers by financial institutions, in exchange for
> placing cash on deposit.
> 
> 
> 
> WHAT MAKES US DIFFERENT
> 
> 	The automatic logical demonstration on the website displays more than
> 59 logical functions. Actually, the number which will be programed is
> about 385, well organized and all totally accessible. Our "nearest
> competitor" in hardware (really, predecessor) 3COM PALM PILOT has only
> 4 logical functions. 
> 	Not only that, our hardware product exceeds all others because it is
> pocketsized, waterproof, breakproof and most importantly, idiotproof.
> Gendex hardware is an email machine that goes with you everywhere,
> even underwater. It's application specific electronic design is user
> serviceable and infinitely upgradeable. 
> 	Gendex hardware is designed with a microphone and a speaker to make
> telephone calls free over the internet. There is also a headset that
> attaches to the lower bidirectional optical ports. 
> 	Logically speaking, it is far easier to use Gendex than those
> products which are not as well designed and thought out. Gendex
> software has prompted data entry and on-line help, being designed for
> the computer-illiterate, thus will replace QUICKEN and most any
> organizer programs. 
> 	Gendex Software, and later hardware, includes prompted logic to
> handle electronic money transactions for on-line banks, and the user
> can make transactions safely. The palm Gendex is being designed with
> completely integrated dataradio (like a pager) and complete TCPIP for
> transmissions of email and e-money over private networks, the
> internet, wherever he goes, with no fear of losing his money
> (depending on what security software is available and what e-bank he
> uses).
> 
> 
> MAD VENTURE CAPITALIST WANTED
> 
> No sane venture capitalist would ever invest in DEXCOM. 
> Sane venture capitalists believe that the publication of this website,
> http://gendex.net, will awaken a giant sleeping gorilla. Its pretty
> obvious that the moment DEXCOM begins to succeed, some giant Japanese
> conglomerate or even Microsoft will create all sorts of knockoffs and
> circumvent all of DEXCOM's patent rights, earned in 14 years on R & D
> unsupported by all but the scantiest investments from people who
> should have known better than to waste their money on this, and loads
> of sweat equity. The very-innovative big established companies, with
> their risk taking daredevil unconventional creative engineers, would
> rather do it themselves, than license the technology, in order to get
> it all for themselves. Even Microsoft knows, it can walk all over
> little companies with complete impunity. The sane partners of any MAD
> venture capitalist who would even consider investing in this little
> startup, will wisely tell them that this is a considerable risk with
> little possible outcome in the way of capital gains. Its pretty
> obvious that there is no more to this website that meets the eye at a
> superficial glance. Not worth considering more because the sane
> venture capitalist sees that if its not a complete fake, that this
> must be just another remake, just another failure in the field of
> personal electronic organizers. It's a shame that so many
> unsophisticated people believe that DEXCOM could succeed. While its
> true that the little company continues to draw support from advance
> orders for its units, coming from little, uneducated and
> unsophisticated future customers, every savvy high class venture
> capitalist knows that its not little buyers who make money for a
> company in the long run, its the money that venture capitalists waste
> on entrepreneurs with sure-fire conventional ideas that makes them
> rich. Don't invest in DEXCOM - you will not regret it!
> 
> Please return email to webmaster@gendex.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________
> DO YOU YAHOO!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


-----------------------------------------------------
Get free personalized email at http://email.lycos.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 06:44:24 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: National Health ID Plan
Message-ID: <199807201344.JAA30199@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Lead story, The New York Times, July 20, 1998:

Clinton Plans to Assign Codes, as Law Requires, to 
Create Giant Medical Database 

As legislation that would protect patient privacy languishes 
in Congress, the Clinton Administration is quietly laying 
plans to assign every American a "unique health identifier," 
a computer code that could be used to create a national 
database that would track every citizen's medical history 
from cradle to grave.
 
The electronic code was mandated by a 1996 law and would be 
the first comprehensive national identification system since 
the Social Security number was introduced in 1935. Although 
the idea has attracted almost no public attention, it is so 
contentious that Federal health officials who were supposed 
to propose a plan for the identifier by February, have made 
little headway and are instead holding hearings beginning on 
Monday to solicit public comment. 

Proponents, including insurance companies and public health 
researchers, say the benefits would be vast. Doctors and 
hospitals would be able to monitor the health of patients as 
they switch from one insurance plan to the next. Patients 
would not have to wade through a cumbersome bureaucracy to 
obtain old records. Billing would be streamlined, saving money. 
A national disease database could be created, offering 
unlimited opportunities for scientific study. 

But opponents, including privacy advocates and some doctors' 
groups, say the code smacks of Big Brother. They warn that 
sensitive health information might be linked to financial data 
or criminal records and that already tenuous privacy protections 
would be further weakened as existing managed care databases, 
for example, are linked. They say that trust in doctors, already 
eroded by managed care, would deteriorate further, with patients 
growing reluctant to share intimate details. And in a world 
where computer hackers can penetrate the Pentagon's computer 
system, they ask, will anyone's medical records be safe? 

Full story: http://www.nytimes.com

Mirror: http://jya.com/privacy-hit.htm

----------

There's also a short report on House Commerce Committee
passage of the WIPO copyright act (which limits encryption 
testing) by setting temporary provisions for "fair use" for 
education with bi-annual review by the Commerce Department 
to extend or let lapse:

Mirror: http://jya.com/wipo-hit.htm







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ray Arachelian 
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 08:24:11 -0700 (PDT)
To: John Young 
Subject: Re: `Vulis terminator' full of crap (Re: net.cop revs up again)
In-Reply-To: <199807182302.AAA15438@server.eternity.org>
Message-ID: <35B35FE8.51386FBD@brainlink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


John Young wrote:

> Still, shifting back to media, the five of us in Manhattan --
> Perry, Dimitri, Guy, Duncan (Ray's in Brooklyn -- hundreds
> more don't openly affinity) hate each other's guts with infinite

Not quite.  I've never lived in Brooklyn.  Try again. :)

> Nothing I've seen proves cypherpunks exists: I've seen Ray
> twice and he wasn't the same. I've seen Duncan twice and
> he wasn't the same. Neither recognized me either. We've
> all introduced ourselves to Jim Kallstrom as one another,
> and did the same to several of Kallstrom's stand-ins.

I've seen John Young twice and he was the same.  And IMHO, I've
been the same person as far as I know. :)  IMHO, JYA has seen me
and can recognize me, so I'd say either he's been smoking/drinking
something (or forgot to do so) when posting this, or it's Mr. oToT,
or Dr. V pretending to be JYA.  So yeah, the post I'm replying to
isn't much like JYA.
 
> Mark this: "Perry Metzger" for certain is non-existent, it's only
> a mail drop, a chalk mark, a can by the road, a highly paid
> fictional security scam: Pay or plonk. Cooped cops and
> holed-up criminals do, up the kazoo.

Total Bullshit.  I've seen Perry more than thrice, once at a speech
he gave for the Libertarian Party where Duncan also was, and also
at PC Expo a few years ago, and at a few NYC Cpunx meets.  Perry 
does exist.
 
> I say for a fact the crypto/cypherpunk/cops/spooks game's
> one bird doing a solo dance. Who that bird is, works for,
> remains to be reported reliably: an impossibility by definition.

Nobody gives a rats ass who the TLA spook 'bot, tentacle, or other
happens to be.  We all know and expect that this list is monitored
heavily by many TLA's including the NSA, FBI, and IRS.  There were
several IRS subscribtions to my filtered list a while back.  I guess
they couldn't deal with all the flaming and decided to get info on
the tax evaders without the flames...  I suppose either the NSA and
FBI know enough to have bought AOL or netcom accounts, or read the
list unfiletered.

IMHO, this is a well known fact, and I welcome them on this list.
Let'em sniff all they want, there's very little here that goes on
that isn't considered public knowledge anyway.  Heck, who knows after
reading much of Tim's posts, maybe their points of view will be
swayed and maybe they'll figgure it out for themselves.  Whatever.

> Dimitri was not terminated, can't be, he never was, like the rest
> of us highly classified phantasms. Adam Back got the story
> right, he's exchanging messages with a bot mirroring his inner
> evil, call that Tim, call it Dimitri, he'll call back as the One True
> Terminator you don't want to meet, ever, but will.

IMHO, I've never met Vulis, so I can't say for sure.  It would interesting
if Tim/Dimitry were the same, but I doubt it.  For that to happen, Tim
would need to know a lot about NYC and be here a lot.  Although it would
be possible for Tim (as you propose) to do "Dimitry", from my experiences
of Dimitry, that's highly unlikely.  Dimitry did quite a bit of social
engineering of Earthweb to get info on me.  He also tried several 
attempts at calling me at home and getting info.  There was also an
NYC meeting where someone very suspicious (i.e. almost demented) 
showed up on his behalf, and mentioned lots of stuff about Xenix and
massacres....  

So IMHO, "Vulis" had to be in NYC.  A while back a few folks said they
met him in person.  I'll let them comment on his description.

I will also add that I heavily complained to dm.com's upstream provider
and didn't get too far. It's possible that by the time Guy had complined,
that there were so many complaints against Vulis that psynet decided
to yank the coor.  Or, could be that Guy=Vulis. :)  Whatever.  Either
way I don't give a rats ass.


I've never met Tim, but have spoken with him since the early days of
the Cypherpunks list, back when Vulis didn't exist.  While I'm not
saying that Tim isn't a 'nym, I am saying that he's got far more
reputation capital than Vulis, or Guy.  Based on this, I do not believe
that Tim=Vulis.  Again, that's my belief, and have no evidence for or
against.

-- 

=====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos==============
.+.^.+.|  Ray Arachelian    |Prying open my 3rd eye.  So good to see |./|\.
..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were      |/\|/\
<--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run  |\/|\/
../|\..| "A toast to Odin,  |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/.
.+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were....            |.....
======================= http://www.sundernet.com ==========================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: CTIA Daily News 
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 09:53:20 -0700 (PDT)
To: CTIA Daily News 
Subject: CTIA Daily News from WOW-COM - July 20, 1998
Message-ID: <199807201639.LAA14590@mailstrom.revnet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




=============================================
Welcome to today's edition of the CTIA Daily
News
from WOW-COM.  Please click on the icon /
attachment
for the most important news in wireless
communications today.

WIRELESS IT '98, The Next Generation in
Personal
Computing & Communications October
12-14,
Las Vegas, Nevada Call (202) 785-0081 for more
information!
=============================================

 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Lowry 
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 08:51:20 -0700 (PDT)
To: Robert Hettinga 
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980720114859.009997f0@dave.bbn.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Oh please ...

As you point out, physics is not optional.  This is predictable and was
predicted.  Yawn.

I predict that 3DES will fall too - actual time it takes is left to the
student.

More interesting, how about a supposition that DNA computers will be able
to factor
interesting numbers within 5 years ?  Does that make certain other
algorithms into snake-oil ?

At the heart of this is the idea that "strong" cryptography is a fixed and
finite
set over time and that a change in that set will result in a change in the
policy restricting export.  It doesn't necessarily follow.  Lobbying is
necessary.

Perhaps all that happens is that DES now joins the crowd of exportable
algorithms :-)

One lesson I plan to observe - don't encrypt known plaintext unless you
have to !

John Lowry

At 04:20 PM 7/17/98 -0400, Robert Hettinga wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
>Congrats to Mr. Gilmore, EFF, et. al. for a very impressive DES crack.
>
>It seems that Gilmore and Moore's Law have just turned the
>once-respected DES into cryptographic snake-oil. He keeps hurting
>snakes like that, he's gonna get himself canonized. ;-).
>
>
>Seriously. Many thanks to Mr. Gilmore for proving, once again, that
>lobbying is pointless, and that physics is not optional.
>
>Outstanding. Marvellous.
>
>Cheers,
>Bob Hettinga
>
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.5.5
>
>iQEVAwUBNa+x3cUCGwxmWcHhAQFZAQgArKCN418IA1MXwfpXeJ4IF93j9f3G3skH
>OotWP5dcoHOaUvbgTcOWP9YBAj77jzaazrtfK3wJD634ehLbf5N+gzmBHQVnXtXR
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>0MTSfzFfy9I+7BT5FD1iFC+i8JAVd4CDeI+9I6c6/LCAppfrKy5FBg==
>=Zeyp
>-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>-----------------
>Robert A. Hettinga 
>Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
>44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
>"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
>[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
>experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
>The Philodox Symposium on Digital Bearer Transaction Settlement
>  July 23-24, 1998: 
>
>For help on using this list (especially unsubscribing), send a message to
>"dcsb-request@ai.mit.edu" with one line of text: "help".
>
>




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mkyleen 
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 11:37:30 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Persuasive speech topics
Message-ID: <35B38D70.2590@sturgis.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I can't think of anything fun to do a persuasive speech on, can you?




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 10:51:22 -0700 (PDT)
To: John Lowry 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 11:48 AM -0400 on 7/20/98, John Lowry wrote:


> Oh please ...

Okay, I'll say it again: Yes, Virginia, DES is now officially Snake Oil.

As much snake oil as if someone tried to sell a Ceasar cipher -- a
perfectly good prechristian military messaging technology, mind you :-) --
for use in modern internet financial cryptography.

So, Virginia, DES is DED. Game over. Kaput.

Get used to it.

> As you point out, physics is not optional.  This is predictable and was
> predicted.  Yawn.

Actually my point. It may have been predicted, but it has now happend. DES
is now Snake Oil.

BTW, try getting your gingivitis fixed before you go yawning in someone's
face. ;-).

> I predict that 3DES will fall too - actual time it takes is left to the
> student.

I see. In *your* lifetime? Splendid. I'd love to see *that* happen. And, of
course, *you're* going to do it, Mr. Lowry? Yawn, yourself.

> More interesting, how about a supposition that DNA computers will be able
> to factor
> interesting numbers within 5 years ?

Probably not in your lifetime, bunky, no matter how many 5-gallon buckets
of slime you can grow. Burden of proof's on you, here. My claim that DES is
snakeoil is based on proven fact. Your claim that DNA can economically
factor numbers fast has yet to be demonstrated, and I challenge you to
prove otherwise with a straight face.

> Does that make certain other
> algorithms into snake-oil ?

Anything that is broken, like DES now is, and is still claimed by others to
be safe, and sold by them as such, is, in my book, snake-oil.


> At the heart of this is the idea that "strong" cryptography is a fixed and
> finite
> set over time and that a change in that set will result in a change in the
> policy restricting export.  It doesn't necessarily follow.

No, it doesn't follow, because that's not what I said. I said that because
it is now demonstrably trivial to break DES messages, especially DES
financial messages (the kind with *money* in them, for those in Loma
Linda), DES is now Snake Oil. Just like the Ceasar cipher.

>   Lobbying is
> necessary.

Lobbying is only necessary for those who want to use force to maintain
market share -- geographic, or otherwise. :-). Lobbying itself is the
profession of con men who use the threat of government force to extort
money from people who work, and give it to those who don't, in particular
said con men.

The only way to avoid government's propensity to dynasticize :-) is to
innovate faster than they can regulate. In Loma Linda, they call it
"progress", bunky. And, crypto has just progressed to such a point that
formerly presumed peekware like DES has just been proven to be such, and is
now, quite fairly, snake oil. Moore's law is not optional, At least in
DES's case.

Lobbying is not necessary if you change the world faster than they can
control it. Gilmore, et. al., just proved that.

Lobbying to change the "legal" keysize is a waste of time. Physics causes
economics, which causes law, which causes "policy". It's never the other
way around, regardless of the beltway's daydreams to the contrary.

> Perhaps all that happens is that DES now joins the crowd of exportable
> algorithms :-)

I would claim that, your disengenous ":-)" aside (yeah, I know, pot,
kettle, black), that any "exportable" algorithm is in fact snake oil. And
Gilmore just proved it.

> One lesson I plan to observe - don't encrypt known plaintext unless you
> have to !

Wha? Security through obscurity? How exactly can you encrypt a message you
don't know the contents of?

Oh. I get it. Statist humor. (Yeah, I know about blinding, I just hate
sophistry...)

Feh.

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga

-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The Philodox Symposium on Digital Bearer Transaction Settlement
  July 23-24, 1998: 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ryan Lackey 
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 10:32:50 -0700 (PDT)
To: rdl@mit.edu
Subject: 3DES weak because DES falls to brute-force? (was Re: John Gilmore...)
Message-ID: <199807201732.NAA25239@denmark-vesey.MIT.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


[recipients list trimmed somewhat]

I think it is always reasonable to be cautious, but there is a point where
overcautiousness is counterproductive.  Believing 3DES weak because DES is 
so strong that it has thusfar withstood more analysis than any other
cipher and only falls to brute force is, I believe, one of these cases 
of excessive paranoia.

Assumptions:
* Brute forcing DES with a 56-bit key took $50k in materials in today's money.
* 3DES with 3 keys is strong enough to resist everything weaker than
a 112-bit brute force attack (due to the meet-in-the-middle attack)
* Physics, as you say, is not optional.
* The notation 2**56 is two raised to the fifty sixth power.

At first approximation, doing the same thing to a 112bit 3DES problem would
require 2**56 more chips. and thus 2**56 more money, to do in the same amount 
of time.  My copy of gnu bc tells me this is "3602879701896396800000", or
three and a half sextillion dollars.  This is more than a billion times the
current world industrial output.

This is somewhat of a naive calculation, though.  Those chips were not
ideal.  There's a general rule about chips doubling in transistor count (and
for this application, performance) every 1.8 years.  Assuming this
rate of improvement, and let's say a random factor of a million for better
design, and a fabrication improvement rate (due to buying all your
raw-materials suppliers, them becoming more efficient, etc.) which together
with Moore's law doubles performance every year (mostly for ease of 
calculation).

Let's assume the target is to be able to complete the calculation within
ten centuries.  It is better to wait until this is possible before
starting than to start and run a calculation for a billion years waiting for
it to catch up, as few things are of value that far in the future, and also
there is the time value of money to worry about.

Let's also place a budget cap of $20t US today's money on the problem at
the start of calculation.

(2**56)*50000/1000000 	== 3602879701896396 dollars today
1000*365/3 		== 121660 gilmore-kocher periods in a 1000 years
3602879701896396/121660 == 2961433258175568 dollars today to crack in 1000 
years
log(2,2961433258175568) == slightly more than 51 years

So, this *highly* optimistic calculation says that even if we are willing to
assume an *incredible* performance speedup due to better technology and
vertical integration that continues unabated (and exceeds reality), *and*
we're willing to wait 1000 years for our answer, *and* are willing to spend
$20t to build the machine, it is at least 51 years before you should start.

This also doesn't take into account the incredible power consumption of
such a machine -- about half a million times more than the gilmore-kocher
machine.  I assume their chips drew 5 watts each -- it would need 3 GW, which
is a major nuclear facility with multiple reactors.  Cost of power is *not*
going down, so it's about $250 billion dollars a year in electricity, for
1000 years.

This doesn't take into account the potential for a "technology refresh"
throughout the 1000 year calculation period.  It's a long enough period of
time to make this significant.

I'd say the odds of an analytic attack against DES or a fundamental 
breakthrough
in quantum computing or something in 50 years, let alone 1050 years, are
far higher than the chances anyone would go through this much trouble.

While I agree that data intended to remain secure should be secured with
something other than 3DES, it is for the potential of a breakthrough in 
algorithms, not speedup in brute force techniques, which is worrisome.  Brute
force techniques are basically public knowledge.  A secret analytic 
breakthrough, however, could be completely black.  The solution some people
have come up with is multiple ciphers used in such a way as to be as strong
as the strongest link.  The increase in keysize is not a major issue for 
something intended to last this long.

If you can get a cipher which has as its weakest point a brute force attack,
you have won.  If you can get a *system* which has as its weakest point a brute
force attack on a 112 bit key, you've probably killed everyone in the world 
already several times over in a preemptive strike, especially everyone who 
ever had any knowledge of the keys or data.  Humint, monitoring hardware, etc. 
are
far more appealing than a brute force attack against any real system.
-- 
Ryan Lackey
rdl@mit.edu
http://sof.mit.edu/rdl/		






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Corvus Corvax" 
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 13:39:45 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Request To Be Phlamed
Message-ID: <19980720203908.28197.qmail@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> What some of them seem to want would appear to be _me_ (and you).

Only because you'd look so absolutely luscious in leather, darling. 


Kiss kiss, 

Diva! von Future Prime

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ryan Lackey 
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 11:16:12 -0700 (PDT)
To: Ryan Lackey 
Subject: Re: 3DES weak because DES falls to brute-force? (was Re: John Gilmore...)
In-Reply-To: <199807201732.NAA25239@denmark-vesey.MIT.EDU>
Message-ID: <199807201816.OAA25266@denmark-vesey.MIT.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Sigh.  One should not do math before coffee.

Let's try this again:
If you assume 2^56 requires $50k and 3 days, and are willing to take
2^8 times longer and spend 2^16 times more, and want to break a 2^112 bit
key, and assume technology doubles in performance for this particular
operation per year, then the calculation is easy to do.

112 - 56 - 16 - 8 = 32

If you wait 32 years, and have *incredible* performance gains in excess of
what we have now (but which I think could be possible for worst-case crypto
breaking chips, since they have relatively little in the way of communication,
and have small units), and have a budget of 16 times what the DES cracker
had (about $3b, which is totally reasonable), and are willing to wait about
2 years, you can brute force 3DES in the year 2030.

There is still very little that is relevant in 32 years, and there is still
a far better chance that some analytic attack will be discovered, a fundamental
breakthrough in computation will happen, etc. before that time.

112 bits is below the "physical impossibility" point as far as key size goes
(I like the calculation based on free energy in the universe in Applied 
Crypto).
Chapter 7 in Applied Crypto is probably a far better analysis than mine,
especially as it includes the caveat emptor section.

Perhaps it is correct, "It's time to bring on those 128, 192, and 256-bit 
keys",
at least for some systems, although I'd definitely prefer multiple ciphers
separately keyed with long keys than n-DES for such long-term use.

Calculating future key lengths really *is* a losing game.
-- 
Ryan Lackey
rdl@mit.edu
http://sof.mit.edu/rdl/		






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: BUFFU@aol.com
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 11:39:42 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Nomination of Lyndon Larouche to the UNITED NATIONS OF THE FRINGE
Message-ID: <267b60e9.35b38e90@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


        Hey Punks,
            As a United Nations OF the Cyber Fringe Member,  I am asking for
your input on giving Lyndon a nomination.  So far his war crimes only include
insanity and stupidity.  Being as Presidential elections will be coming in the
next few years, and I can't vote for my granpa again because he died.  And
Captain Kangaroo and Mr. Green Jeans arn't interested in being endorsed by
anyone, that leaves us without a candidate.  If we vote in Lyndon and his
crew, we would have gophers during our UN meetings.  I'm trying to get a web
page for the UNOCF but until then I'm winging it.  Consult all your Homies and
let me know.

              Sincerely,

                 Beth 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: mgraffam@mhv.net
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 12:17:07 -0700 (PDT)
To: Ryan Lackey 
Subject: Re: 3DES weak because DES falls to brute-force? (was Re: John Gilmore...)
In-Reply-To: <199807201732.NAA25239@denmark-vesey.MIT.EDU>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Mon, 20 Jul 1998, Ryan Lackey wrote:

> So, this *highly* optimistic calculation says that even if we are willing to
> assume an *incredible* performance speedup due to better technology and
> vertical integration that continues unabated (and exceeds reality), *and*
> we're willing to wait 1000 years for our answer, *and* are willing to spend
> $20t to build the machine, it is at least 51 years before you should start.

Humrph .. your calculations came in just before I was gonna send mine out
.. bc is a nice utility, ain't it? :)

> While I agree that data intended to remain secure should be secured with
> something other than 3DES, it is for the potential of a breakthrough in 
> algorithms, not speedup in brute force techniques, which is worrisome.

Well, I disagree here.. unless the "something other than 3DES" is an OTP,
of course. I don't see anything that looks better than DES, minus the
key-size issue. DES has had the fiercest analysis done on it for the
longest amount of time. If we are worried about a breakthrough in
the algorithmics, then it seems to me we ought to use DES based on the
fact that it has been analyzed longer, and has proved itself strong.

We've covered the new vs. old algorithm debate here recently, so I'll
shut up.. suffice it to say, I fall in line with the 'old' school.

I don't find it useful to worry about possible new general cryptanalytic
breakthroughs: it is basically impossible to defend against them. In
the face of an attacker who has infinite secret cryptanalytic ability 
(within the bounds of what can be done brute-force wise) only an OTP
would be useful, but we are talking long-term archival here.. I don't
see how an OTP helps us. If we have a secure vault to lock the pads up
in until either a) the heat death of the universe, or b) the Big Crunch
then we may as well just put the plaintext in there and be done with
it. As I see it, OTP are only workable in communications, and then
obviously in a limited manner.


Michael J. Graffam (mgraffam@mhv.net)
http://www.mhv.net/~mgraffam -- Philosophy, Religion, Computers, Crypto, etc
I think that we should be men first, and subjects afterward. It is not
desirable to cultivate a respect for the law, so much as for the right.
			Henry David Thoreau "Civil Disobedience"





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 12:15:29 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: More on WIPO Copyright Amendment
Message-ID: <199807201915.PAA03490@camel14.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


To amplify the earlier NY Times report on the July 17
passage of the Krug amendment to the WIPO copyright act, 
which once banned encryption analysis, Reuters today says:

  The committee also approved an amendment allowing 
  cryptography researchers to crack anti-piracy safeguards 
  as part of their work. And an amendment was added 
  allowing Internet users to disable such measures to 
  prevent the collection of personal information.    

The Reuters report:

  http://jya.com/wipo-hit2.htm

-----

Thanks to DM.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bryan Waters 
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 13:24:01 -0700 (PDT)
To: Ryan Lackey 
Subject: Re: 3DES weak because DES falls to brute-force? (was Re: John Gilmore...)
In-Reply-To: <199807201732.NAA25239@denmark-vesey.MIT.EDU>
Message-ID: <199807202023.QAA08696@omniwork.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>I don't find it useful to worry about possible new general cryptanalytic
>breakthroughs: it is basically impossible to defend against them. In
>the face of an attacker who has infinite secret cryptanalytic ability 
>(within the bounds of what can be done brute-force wise) only an OTP
>would be useful, but we are talking long-term archival here.. I don't
>see how an OTP helps us. If we have a secure vault to lock the pads up
>in until either a) the heat death of the universe, or b) the Big Crunch
>then we may as well just put the plaintext in there and be done with
>it. As I see it, OTP are only workable in communications, and then
>obviously in a limited manner.
>

Are we talking long-term archival?  I'm more concerned about someone
grabbing communications in transit, storing them and throwing chips and
mathematicians at it.

If the government comes with the search warrant, then I should have already
deleted the file if I didn't want it available.  If someone wants to face
security guards or a gun by my bedside they can steal the archive.  It's
the same rules as always. (except the theif must also have the math and
chips).

In the case of archive you have the protection of physical security and in
most cases the knowledge of when it has been breached -- It's a lot
friendlier than in communications where who knows what is going on between
the sender and recipient.

OTP is a pain, and is not effective for archival -- but it is the only way
I've seen to protect communications in excess of ~30 years.

Bryan Waters                                    http://www.ultimateprivacy.com
Director of Marketing                    Voice: 512-305-0505 Fax: 512-305-0506
Ultimate Privacy Corporation       3925 W Braker Ln #305, Austin, TX, 78759  




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Kawika Daguio" 
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 12:40:58 -0700 (PDT)
To: rdl@mit.edu
Subject: Re: 3DES weak because DES falls to brute-force? (was Re: JohnGilmore...)
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


If you listen to those in the exploitation community you might hear that 3DES provides less comparable security relative to DES than you know or have stated.    Either way, however, it is more than sufficiently strong to secure any kind of traffic one might contemplate sending over a network.  3DES should work for a while, but I would prefer something more elegant and efficient.

We have pushed 3DES forward as an interim standard, and are moving 3DES out into the world and the AES (128 and 256) forward to provide us another long-term solution.   We told NIST that we hoped the AES could serve as a 20-30 year solution and are pushing algorithm agnostic standards to avoid similar obstacles to a transition in the far off future.

One of the reasons we so aggressively pursued the negotiations over export control with the Administration and have pushed the AES, and our PKI is the collateral damage from the export control legislative debate.   When the AES is finalized it will be followed closely by  an ANSI X9 standard.  Once these standards and infrastructure are established, the concerns about brute force attacks should be largely behind us.

kawika
daguio

my views only

>>> Ryan Lackey  07/20/98 02:16PM >>>
Sigh.  One should not do math before coffee.

Let's try this again:
If you assume 2^56 requires $50k and 3 days, and are willing to take
2^8 times longer and spend 2^16 times more, and want to break a 2^112 bit
key, and assume technology doubles in performance for this particular
operation per year, then the calculation is easy to do.

112 - 56 - 16 - 8 = 32

If you wait 32 years, and have *incredible* performance gains in excess of
what we have now (but which I think could be possible for worst-case crypto
breaking chips, since they have relatively little in the way of communication,
and have small units), and have a budget of 16 times what the DES cracker
had (about $3b, which is totally reasonable), and are willing to wait about
2 years, you can brute force 3DES in the year 2030.

There is still very little that is relevant in 32 years, and there is still
a far better chance that some analytic attack will be discovered, a fundamental
breakthrough in computation will happen, etc. before that time.

112 bits is below the "physical impossibility" point as far as key size goes
(I like the calculation based on free energy in the universe in Applied 
Crypto).
Chapter 7 in Applied Crypto is probably a far better analysis than mine,
especially as it includes the caveat emptor section.

Perhaps it is correct, "It's time to bring on those 128, 192, and 256-bit 
keys",
at least for some systems, although I'd definitely prefer multiple ciphers
separately keyed with long keys than n-DES for such long-term use.

Calculating future key lengths really *is* a losing game.
-- 
Ryan Lackey
rdl@mit.edu 
http://sof.mit.edu/rdl/		







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC 
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 16:49:22 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: If You Think I'm Crazy Now... - SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS!!!
Message-ID: <009C977E.807CD340.3@west.cscwc.pima.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


If ou Think I'm Crazy Now
ou Should Have Seen Me When
I Was A Kid
~Geezinslaw Brothers
SPACE ALIENS HIDE M DRUGS!!!
_____________________________


From:   MX%"chrisharwig@hetnet.nl"  "kryz"
To:     MX%"bleed@west.cscwc.pima.edu"
Subj:   Re: Leftist Nutly News - SPACE ALIENS HIDE M DRUGS!!!

I think you're a bit out of line. Wish you well and all of that. 
Strength that is.

----------

  A "bit" out of line?
  I'm trying to be *way* out of line, but I guess I'm a failure
at that, too .


  Children of the 60's can all remember where they were when they
heard about JFK being shot. Many of them can remember where they
were when they bought their first pound of pot, and most of them
can remember where they were when they sold their first pound of
pot (particularly if they got busted in the process.)
  I bought my first pound of pot in a public park in Edmonton,
Alberta. I needed to sell it to get the money to pay a fine for
drug possession, and I couldn't, in good conscience, pay it with
money that I'd earned by working for a living at my regular job.
  Let me explain...

  It was the summer of 1969...

 [Debitor's Bad Note: If 90% of the events in the Author's life
  seem to have somehow occurred in 1969, this might be the result
  of the massive electroshock and hypnosis treatments HeOrSheOrIt
  underwent under the...care...of an MKULTA physician in Saskatoon,
  Saskatchewan, Abram Hoffer, who undoubtedly appears as only a
  minor, peripheral figure, if at all, in most literature on the
  subject...likely as a result of great care being taken by shadowy
  background figures to keep him out of the limelight, ala Kim 
  Philby, due to the fact that the record of his 'personal history'
  seems to be unable to withstand close scrutiny once one begins to
  investigate the time periods preceding the end of WWII.
  Hhhmmmm...]

  Quit interrupting, Dogamnnit!

  Anyway, I was working in orkton, Saskatchewan and living with a
sixteen year old high school student with no parents, no job, no
source of income, who always paid his share of the rent, and always
had better clothes and more spending money than me. [It turned out
that he had two motto's in life. 1)Everything that isn't nailed down,
is mine. 2)Anything I can pry loose, isn't nailed down...]
  The apartment we shared tended to be a hang-out for a variety of
local high-school kids, who would invariably bring by any interesting
characters passing through town on the couch circuit, who needed a
place to crash for the night. One of these characters was Frank
Skanks, an older fellow.

  The drug scene in orkton was basically a Virtual Drug Scene, where
most people knew somebody who knew somebody who had once copped a
bag of weed on a trip with their parents to Vancouver, and shared
it with a few close friends on their return.
  Upon Franks arrival, however, things picked up, and a few of the
local kids suddenly seemed to have access to a fair amount of smoking
dope. There even seemed to be some acid floating around.

  I returned home one evening to find a bottle of wine in the fridge,
and had several large glasses before 'the gang' returned from a trip
to the Dairy Queen, whereupon they became dismayed to find that I
had consumed such a large portion of a concoction they had prepared
in accordance with Ken Kesey's directions in 'The Electric Kool-Aid
Acid Test.'
  That seemed to explain the fact that I was able to pick up Messages
>From Mars through the fillings in my teeth, which I had always had
trouble doing before...

  I found it to be a fairly pleasant experience, even though I did
feel a slight bit of guilt, knowing that I had inadvertantly setback
the plans of a dozen or so people who had hoped to get high with the
portion of Dr. Skank's Magic Elixir which I had unwittingly consumed.
  I didn't mind being 'dosed,' since I had already figured on trying
LSD on the proverbial SomeDay. When my enlightened reverie was
interrupted, however, by the sight of Frank Skanks teaching a group
of thirteen-to-fifteen year olds how to tie-off and shoot up, my
pleasant experience took on a rather sour note.
  When my efforts to put a stop to the proceedings failed, largely
due to the rush of young children knocking me down in order to get
a good place in the line that was forming, waiting for Frank to find
one of his few remaining good veins, I decided that, in the interests
of saving at least a single child, I would  call on Dudley DoRight 
for help.

  I walked to the local RCMP station, dodging the dinosaurs and 
hobbits which seemed to be everywhere, in a multitude of colors,
and proceeded to inquire as to whether they might be interested
in helping to postpone a group of young teenagers' entry into the
world of needles and spoons and basement rooms until a later age,
when they might be in a position to make better judgements in that
regard.
  After throwing me in a jail cell, and grabbing a wide variety of
heavy weaponry, a quickly assembled RCMP assault force rushed out
the door, to 'save the children.' I had the uneasy feeling that they
were intent on saving them even if it meant killing them.

  I didn't get any sleep that night, undoubtedly as a result of the
fact that I was 'tripping for twelve,' and I could hear a lot of
muffled, semi-legible conversations taking place on the far side
of the walls, or door. They didn't seem to make sense, and I assumed
that it was because of my temporary residence of planets of another
galaxy.
  The clearest verbal communication I heard, as the door to the jail
cells was opened, was, "Wrong door!"
  I don't know who spoke those words, but I imagine that it was one
of the Mounties in the company of Frank Skanks, who was staring at
me with extremely wide eyes, and with excrement obviously filling his 
shorts in less time that it take to utter, "Can you say *cop*! Sure 
you can..."

  I was totally dumbfounded, as well as still extremely wasted, but
I still managed to smile, and say, "Nice suit, Frank." before the
door closed and the conference which had apparently just broken up
was quickly reconvened.

  Being young and naieve, I thought that this was the end of the
story, an interesting story I would someday be able to tell my
grandchildren, after DNA testing showed my denials of paternity to
be outright lies.
  What I didn't understand, at the time, was that my surprise at
finding that the Great Canadian Hero, Dudley DoRight, was somehow
involved in something which seemed to run contrary to the Official
Movie Mythology, would soon be supplanted by total incredulity that
the spot of shit I had observed on the end of Dudley's Dick would
soon prove to be a massive amount of shit covering the RCMP members'
members all the way to their pelvis, and dripping down off thier
balls into their rubber boots.
  And the shit would smell an awful lot like mine...

  The Official Story was that, after performing a search of my
apartment, and finding nothing, the RCMP returned with members
of the force who were more 'experienced' in this area, who, lo 
and behold, found a single joint in a suit-jacket pocket.
  I was charged with possession of marijuana.

  Tiny, a member of the Apollos Motorcycle Club in Regina, who Frank
had travelled into town with, had apparently told Frank to 'fuck off'
when asked to introduce him to individuals throughout the province,
with Frank paying travelling expenses and providing spending money
during the trips. Tiny was willing to testify in court as to Franks
apparent instigation of illegal activities on behalf of some entity
who seemed to be funding him.
  A few days before the trial, we were pulled over by the Mounties,
who took Tiny into their police car to have a chat with him. Upon
his return, Tiny told me that it was suggested to him that if I got
off on the charge, that they would have to find someone else to take
the fall, and that he was next in line. Tiny assured me that he would
still be there for the trial.
  Bye, Tiny...

  In order to convict me of possession of a single joint, the RCMP
sent two Mounties to my hometown for a week or so to investigate me,
as well as contacting everyone I have known since birth.
  Although my lawyer had assured me that the case would undoubtedly
be thrown out of court as a result of the RCMP's tacit admission
that a wide variety of individuals had been seen coming and going
from my apartment between the first and second searches (while I
was still in jail), I was convicted, receiving a criminal record
and a $ 300.00 fine (at a time when other people were getting $ 50.00
fines and conditional discharges--no criminal record).

  Being a well-programmed True Believer in Truth, Justice, The Flag,
The National Anthem, Dudley DoRight, Mom's Apple Pie, ad infinituum,
it took me quite a while to fully understand that I had been screwed,
blued and tattoo'd for the crime of...seeing something that I wasn't
meant to see.


  Those who have found themselves subjected to my insane, inane,
wild-eyed rants on the CypherPunks Disturbed Male LISP might be
surprised to know that I didn't, at the time, get 'a bit out of
line,' as  might say.
  As a matter of fact, I pretty much retained my naievity, somehow
convincing myself that this event in my life obviously had to be
some kind of aberration of TheWayThingsAre (TM), or that the RCMP
detachment in orkton had been taken over and subverted by the
Body Snatchers, and that I should just mark it all up to having a
BadHairDay.
 {I have not come by my cynicism easily, having had it pounded into
  me over the course of the years by a variety of members of our
  Officially Recognized Authorities who deemed that, once I had
  become an OfficiallyLabledBadGuy, I was fair game for anyone who
  was in need of 'someone doing something dirty, decent folks can
  frown on.'}

  Although I will freely admit that I remained, for the time being,
an ignorant, well-programmed middle-class Canadian white boy, I am
rather proud of the fact that I showed a spark of future promise as
an individual capable of evolving into AManWorthyOfBeingCalledAMan,
as Gurdjieff would say, by listening to the voice inside which told
me that there was a line I could not cross and still retain any
semblance of integrity and self-respect.
  I could not, in good conscience, allow these thieves to take my
hard earned money, in payment of the court-ordered fine.

  I was met, after my conviction, on the steps of the courhouse, by
a group of local teenagers, most of whom I did not know, who were
aware that I had never smoked a joint in my life, and had decided
that if I had to do the time, I might as well do the crime.
  The first joint I ever smoked was on the courthouse steps in 
orkton, Saskatchewan, after having been railroaded into a criminal
conviction in order to prevent my being in a position to speak out
about my inadvertantly gained knowledge of RCMP malefeasance.
  The first pound of weed I ever bought was in a public park in
Edmonton, Alberta, which I sold in orkton, Saskatchewan, in order
to pay a fine that resulted for conviction of possession of a drug
I had not only never before done, but had never before seen.

  So, Constable McClean and Corporal Esau, swear out some new 
warrants and take me to court. I've already confessed...

Sincerely,
Mr. BigFuckou
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Steve Schear 
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 17:14:02 -0700 (PDT)
To: "Kawika Daguio" 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


>One of the reasons we so aggressively pursued the negotiations over export
>control with the Administration and have pushed the AES, and our PKI is
>the collateral damage from the export control legislative debate.   When
>the AES is finalized it will be followed closely by  an ANSI X9 standard.
>Once these standards and infrastructure are established, the concerns
>about brute force attacks should be largely behind us.

I think it likely, biological computation based brute force attacks will be
available much sooner than many think.

--Steve

---------------------------------------------------------------------
		reply to schear - at - lvcm - dot - com ---

PGP mail preferred, see  	http://www.pgp.com and
				http://web.mit.edu/network/pgp.html

RSA fingerprint: FE90 1A95 9DEA 8D61  812E CCA9 A44A FBA9
RSA key: http://keys.pgp.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=index&search=0x55C78B0D
---------------------------------------------------------------------







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Craz8Grl@aol.com
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 16:21:14 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: please respond
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hello:
 My name is Enisa, I'm 13 years old. I write an online e-zine that for teens.
We have over 150+ members. We just started a few days ago. We are looking for
sponsors to sponsor our contests. These are some of the things we are able to
do for you...
 * A banner on our page
 * Repeated mentioning in our newsletters
 * And anything else that you would like
 These are the things I would like in return:
 *2-3 prizes for our contest
 And nothing more.
 If you are interested please e-mail me
so we can discuss this further.
Please respond.
 Thank you for your time. 
 Sincerely, 
 Enisa
http://members.aol.com/Craz8Grl/





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: LrdWill@aol.com
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 16:27:53 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: you got that PGP program?
Message-ID: <99c9c87.35b3d24d@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


you got it?




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Your Yashy" 
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 17:42:21 -0700 (PDT)
To: "kryz" 
Subject: Re:
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199807210042.UAA17311@deathstar.comnet.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Priority:       	Normal
To:             	"Ciferpunx" 
From:           	"kryz" 
Date sent:      	Tue, 21 Jul 98 00:12:26 -0000 (DST)

> -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
> Version: 2.6.2i
> 
> s0mepeOplEarErEtarDeDanDsomeUsEtHeirHeAdD8ol2NI3s5E9ftasLOs0NBckLFwiHsZW
> 9ogW6D+/Y7Uyx+dIGf45Fv6XTIjuMCIhvO44sg2QR84chTuHgrv2yRm2da9FcZUm
> 6yM7dBk0iCJuj/nvtTXUZ/hT3X/6CUBr/9PyzvquECNqYX8ALmczfReY6s/SF4jA
> zReU9IjbbX05MUDzMiNL54BrT71p4fZ+25oBDuzqZl8hRmVx16CjgxrEDbXoJZPU
> ojTX/kNsQ60XZzIaww5eQS6p19TFIXt4op3lq8vBsieaLjzjdVjQsU3I4eR5J1z/
> Prp7836tlAggO3dbJflY3Ah1dB+oDTFb1ulR9BEABRGwAYe0G0NocmlzIEhhcndp
> ZyBTYWxvcGV0dGUgMjUxMbABAw==
> =mTz7
> -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
> 
> 
> 
> 


HTTP://www.comnet.ca/~yashy
100 YashDollars to first person to try every link.
(including links derived from links)
p.s. SPAM PROOF Email address. Remove the "*" to reply.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: new7898@yahoo.com
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 11:59:44 -0700 (PDT)
To: new71398@hotmail.com
Subject: NEED MONEY NOW
Message-ID: <74019590_23312217>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



THIS IS THE ONE!!!

NEED MONEY NOW??	

Turn a one time $39 investment into
a steady stream of $20 bills paid 
directly to you, each and every 
Friday for the rest of your life!!
(START NOW AND HAVE A CHECK IN YOUR 
HAND NEXT FRIDAY)

NO SELLING INVOLVED!

No stocking merchandise or inventory
of any kind! Could you advertise a 
TOLL FREE number? That's all there is 
to it. Our system does everything else
for you! SO SIMPLE A CHILD COULD DO IT!

Why not call and see for yourself?!
(Be sure and have a pen and paper handy)

$$1-800-368-3561$$
(24 hours)
USE ID # 18266






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: eliner@departs.co.il
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 11:53:31 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: De'Parts - The Parts locating highway...
Message-ID: <199807202200.PAA16669@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



To:      General Manager.
           Purchasing Director
           Marketing Director.


Re: Boost your sales to High-Tech industries.


Dear Sir/Madam;


*      If you need to find parts or stock as fast as possible...                                You need De'Parts.

*      If you are looking to sell surplus parts or stock (in bulk)...                            You need De'Parts.

*      If you are a manufacturer or a distributor and you want to boost sales...     You need De'Parts.

Share your database with others, and join the De'Parts family at:
                                                                                                                  WWW.DEPARTS.COM
            **********************************************
De'Parts is an Internet-based information services center that provides an inventory database to potential buyers and suppliers of industrial products.

De'Parts enables you to publish and locate parts at the stroke of a key.

Both supply and demand are met at the De'Parts site, where all parties can find exactly what they need.

Your parts or surplus stock could be just the solution for someone else's needs.

De'Parts will help reduce your costs, improve inventory control and save valuable storage space.

All members of the De'Parts network are able, free of charge:

*      To search our database; 
*      To use our Email robot;
*      To submit Requests for Quotations (RFQ's); and 
*      To download files.

Publishing members can advertise an unlimited number of parts or lists of stock, on our database for the benefit of all De'Parts site visitors.

Publishing membership costs less than the price of an advertisement in your local newspaper.

Just follow the steps below and you are on your way to a substantial increase in sales:

1. Log in to De'Parts and Register to the system. Be aware if
    You want to sale all your stock as a batch or to sell it Part
    by Part (It means that you may have to provide a quotation for
    each part).

2. Create a file to publish, include all your parts for sale, and
    follow the instructions that describe how to "Upload a File" in 
    "Manage D.B.".

3. Upload your file to the system (Step 1 - to Publish the file
    as a batch. Step 2 - To publish and quote each part).

4.  Check your Email frequently.

For detailed information, please read the "About" section at: WWW.DEPARTS.COM

Thank you for your time and we hope that you enjoy the advantages provided by our system.

Wishing you a lot of success,




S. Avishai

V.P. Marketing
   De'Parts


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   ***   Take a part in De'Parts...the parts locating highway   ***
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Marketing@departs.co.il (Marketing Dept.)
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 17:44:05 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: De'Parts - The Parts locating highway...
Message-ID: <19980720221402671.AAA450@www.departs.co.il@departs.co.il>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



To:      General Manager.
           Purchasing Director
           Marketing Director.


Re: Boost your sales to High-Tech industries.


Dear Sir/Madam;


*      If you need to find parts or stock as fast as possible...                                You need De'Parts.

*      If you are looking to sell surplus parts or stock (in bulk)...                            You need De'Parts.

*      If you are a manufacturer or a distributor and you want to boost sales...     You need De'Parts.

Share your database with others, and join the De'Parts family at:
                                                                                                                  WWW.DEPARTS.COM
            **********************************************
De'Parts is an Internet-based information services center that provides an inventory database to potential buyers and suppliers of industrial products.

De'Parts enables you to publish and locate parts at the stroke of a key.

Both supply and demand are met at the De'Parts site, where all parties can find exactly what they need.

Your parts or surplus stock could be just the solution for someone else's needs.

De'Parts will help reduce your costs, improve inventory control and save valuable storage space.

All members of the De'Parts network are able, free of charge:

*      To search our database; 
*      To use our Email robot;
*      To submit Requests for Quotations (RFQ's); and 
*      To download files.

Publishing members can advertise an unlimited number of parts or lists of stock, on our database for the benefit of all De'Parts site visitors.

Publishing membership costs less than the price of an advertisement in your local newspaper.

Just follow the steps below and you are on your way to a substantial increase in sales:

1. Log in to De'Parts and Register to the system. Be aware if
    You want to sale all your stock as a batch or to sell it Part
    by Part (It means that you may have to provide a quotation for
    each part).

2. Create a file to publish, include all your parts for sale, and
    follow the instructions that describe how to "Upload a File" in 
    "Manage D.B.".

3. Upload your file to the system (Step 1 - to Publish the file
    as a batch. Step 2 - To publish and quote each part).

4.  Check your Email frequently.

For detailed information, please read the "About" section at: WWW.DEPARTS.COM

Thank you for your time and we hope that you enjoy the advantages provided by our system.

Wishing you a lot of success,




S. Avishai

V.P. Marketing
   De'Parts


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   ***   Take a part in De'Parts...the parts locating highway   ***
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Marketing@departs.co.il (Marketing Dept.)
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 17:44:08 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: De'Parts - The Parts locating highway...
Message-ID: <19980720221916421.AAA603@www.departs.co.il@departs.co.il>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



To:      General Manager.
           Purchasing Director
           Marketing Director.


Re: Boost your sales to High-Tech industries.


Dear Sir/Madam;


*      If you need to find parts or stock as fast as possible...                                You need De'Parts.

*      If you are looking to sell surplus parts or stock (in bulk)...                            You need De'Parts.

*      If you are a manufacturer or a distributor and you want to boost sales...     You need De'Parts.

Share your database with others, and join the De'Parts family at:
                                                                                                                  WWW.DEPARTS.COM
            **********************************************
De'Parts is an Internet-based information services center that provides an inventory database to potential buyers and suppliers of industrial products.

De'Parts enables you to publish and locate parts at the stroke of a key.

Both supply and demand are met at the De'Parts site, where all parties can find exactly what they need.

Your parts or surplus stock could be just the solution for someone else's needs.

De'Parts will help reduce your costs, improve inventory control and save valuable storage space.

All members of the De'Parts network are able, free of charge:

*      To search our database; 
*      To use our Email robot;
*      To submit Requests for Quotations (RFQ's); and 
*      To download files.

Publishing members can advertise an unlimited number of parts or lists of stock, on our database for the benefit of all De'Parts site visitors.

Publishing membership costs less than the price of an advertisement in your local newspaper.

Just follow the steps below and you are on your way to a substantial increase in sales:

1. Log in to De'Parts and Register to the system. Be aware if
    You want to sale all your stock as a batch or to sell it Part
    by Part (It means that you may have to provide a quotation for
    each part).

2. Create a file to publish, include all your parts for sale, and
    follow the instructions that describe how to "Upload a File" in 
    "Manage D.B.".

3. Upload your file to the system (Step 1 - to Publish the file
    as a batch. Step 2 - To publish and quote each part).

4.  Check your Email frequently.

For detailed information, please read the "About" section at: WWW.DEPARTS.COM

Thank you for your time and we hope that you enjoy the advantages provided by our system.

Wishing you a lot of success,




S. Avishai

V.P. Marketing
   De'Parts


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   ***   Take a part in De'Parts...the parts locating highway   ***
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED/EUREKA! 
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 17:57:26 -0700 (PDT)
To: All Eureka/Stuffed Subscribers: ;
Subject: World Exclusive: I was a lesbo virgin/Bigger balls are better
Message-ID: <19980720234547.27548.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Welcome to  today's  issue of Stuffed. To read it you should
click on the URL below.  If it is not made clickable by your
email program  you will need to  use your mouse to highlight
the line,  copy it and then paste it into your browser (then
press Return).

http://stuffed.net/98/7/20/

If you  have an email program that can display web pages you
will find today's front cover should have already been disp-
layed and can be clicked on to take you straight to Stuffed.

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC 
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 00:08:20 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Canadian Shock Radio - SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS!!!
Message-ID: <009C97C4.5E586D60.1@west.cscwc.pima.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Canadian Shock Radio - SPACE ALIENS HIDE M DRUGS!!!
____________________________________________________

  Lest anyone think that my rendidion of 'Dudley's Dick In D-Sharp"
might be a bit of sour grapes on my part, let me state, for the record,
that I hold no ill will against the poor, ignorant Nazis in the orkton
division of the RCMP, since basically all they really did was to totally
fuck up their own Karma, while giving me a valuable life-lesson which
may well have been responsible for my making a very important and far-
reaching decision later in my life.
  ears later, as a result of knowing what awaits TheManWhoKnowsTooMuch
I decided to keep my fucking mouth shut about the people and events that
I observed from my position on the ceiling, while looking down on my 
body and the rest of the room during a particularly intensive electro-
shock experience. 
  Something told me that I was, once again, inadvertently observing
something that would result in 'measures' needing to be taken by the
RecognizedAndRespectedMembersOfSociety (of which I was not one), in 
order to ensure that I did not share with others what I had seen while
peeking under the skirt of the GreatWhoreWhoWasWearingNoPanties.

  One of the more disturbing things I perceived while listening to the
rather enlightening conversations taking place among the gathered
civilian and military medical personnel, was something that I have come
to understand rather recently, as a result of research that was begun
after something Tim May mentioned in one of his posts to the CPUNX list.
  I thought it odd, at the time, to observe my being given a long series
of electroshocks in a single session, since it was my understanding that
They (TM) just gave a person one, quick whack, and then hosed the shit
off your sheets and wheeled you into another room to make way for the
next lucky winner. Recent research, however, seems to indicate that
this was a special technique pioneered in Canada by Dr. Ewen Cameron,
MKULTRA's resident wanna-be-Nazi-doctor, in order to wipe his patients'
minds (and identities) 'clean,' in order to prepare them for a rebuilding
of their personality, through a technique called Psychic Driving (which
turns out to be a kindlier, gentler form of Brainwashing--as long as you
are only comparing it to bamboo-shoots under the fingernails and rats
in cages placed over one's face).
  Of course, Dr. Cameron, who retired to great accolade, recognized as
a Titan in Canadian Medical History, as opposed to being tried by an
International Court and sentenced to be hung, like his predecessors at
Dachau, was really only being used as an expendable shill to take the
heat if the shit hit the fan over Rockerfeller Foundation funded CIA/
Military experiments obliterating the minds of women being treated for
such devastating mental disabilities as 'menopause' and 'post-partum
depression.' After all, one could hardly expect the CIA to risk exposure
of the players in the Canadian MKULTRA scene whose pre-WorldWarII alleged
'histories' could not withstand close scrutiny.
  Accordingly, after the shit hit the fan, it was Dr. Cameron who fell
off a cliff while 'climbing'  , while my physician
continued to practice...and practice...and practice...

  Delving into the history of CIA mind-control experiments cleared up a
few things that had been somewhat of a mystery in regard to my medical
treatment over the years, such as how I had ended up being treated with
hypnosis and heavy doses of electroshock when I had originally gone to
see the doctor in regard to a particularly nasty hangnail, and what the
fuck all of those Navy people were doing two thousand miles from the 
ocean.

  I'm just kidding, of course...
  The fact is, I *already* knew *what* the fuck all of those Navy people
were doing in Saskatchewan. They were there conferring with Dr. Hoffer's
alleged 'research assistant,' MJ. What I *didn't* know, at the time, 
was *why*.
  I was not surprised to recently find out, after a modicum of research,
that Ms. MJ Callbeck left the Navy as a nurse lieutenant, specializing
in psychiatric nursing, receiving most of her postgraduate training at
Allan Memorial Hospital in Montreal, from phychiatrists who were, to
put it as delicately as possible...PostWar Refugees From Hitler's Nazi
Germany. (With 'refugee' apparently being defined as a physician who
had escaped trial and hanging at Nuremburg, as a result of having a
wealth of information and 'practical experience' in areas that were of
interest to American and Canadian intelligence agencies.)

  Ms. Callbeck became a 'research nurse' for a research team formed in
Saskatchewan with huge grant from the CIA's Canadian funding front,
the Rockerfeller Foundation, and was awarded a training grant to
visit two U.S. research units funded by the CIA's American funding
front, the Human Ecology Foundation, at Tulane University, in New
Orleans, and the Psychiatric Institute in New ork.
  After MJ's return from the HeartOfMentalDarkness of the MKULTRA
mind-control establishments in the U.S., she created a psychiatric
researching nursing team to 'control' all clinical research for the
team, and to ensure that research protocols would be followed.

  Ms. Callbeck's and Dr. Hoffer's careers were closely intertwined with
Dr. Humphry Osmond, a British Naval doctor sent to Canada to look after
British Naval Intelligence's interests in the North American mind-control
research arena being fronted by the CIA, with their MKULTRA Project, and
Captain Al Hubbard, the Johnny Appleseed of LSD, whose hallucinogenic
pecker-tracks throughout the OSS and the Manhattan Project led to him
receiving a Presidential Pardon from Harry Truman, as well as opening
doors for him to a wide variety of employment with such agencies as the
CIA and the Canadian Special Services.
  As a matter of fact, the chronolgy of the U.S. mind-control experiments
moving beyond U.S. borders, to countries such as Canada, when publicity
and legal technicalities (such as the murder of innocent victims who had
been dosed with hallucinogenic drugs without their knowledge) became a
bit of a 'sticky wicket,' was mirrored in Canada by the careers of Hoffer,
Osmond, Callbeck and Hubbard, who seemed to be at the center of much
of the 'progressive' psychiatric research funded by American and Canadian
military intelligence agencies, but who always managed to somehow exit 
the scene just before the shit hit the fan, and, as a result, "not get 
any fon 'em."
{e.g. - Just as Hubbard (who looks surprisingly like my step-grandfather,
 Ray Hubbard) managed to slip out the back door of the Hollywood Hospital
in Vancouver, just as "the Canadian Medical Association was becoming
increasingly suspicious of Hollywood Hospital in the wake of publicity
surrounding MK-ULTRA" (with the Canadian Citizen's Commission on Human
Rights doing a distincly audible "Hhhmmmm..." over discovering a CIA
contract psychiatrist, Dr. Harold Abramson, being on the Board Of 
Directors of the hospital superintendent's Psychedelic Therapy Assn.),
Dr. Hoffer always seemed to manage to call a 'slant-right' at the 
exact time that a hole in the line seemed to open up, closing behind
him and leaving the more dispensable players behind to face a legal
and media blitz(krieg) that was more interested in kicking ass and
taking names, than who actually had the ball.

  Naturally, after 1966, when overt legal research into hallucinogenic
therapy was stopped/banned, Dr. Hoffer, who was then Associate Professor
(Research) Psychiatry, College of Medicine, University of Saskatchewan,
suddenly deemed it time to go into 'private practice,' where his work/
research would not be subject to the scrutiny of his peers and his
employers, who might take a dim view of any connection to what was
now illegal research.
  Ms. Callbeck, Navy Lieutenant, MKULTRA research trainee, also found
it a convenient time to depart the Research Unit at the University of
Saskatchewan, and assist Dr. Hoffer in the research he was pursuing.

  As always, what one finds upon inquiry into JustTheFactsMa'am never
seems to be quite as intruiging as what one *does*not* find...

  For instance, one would expect a person who held such an esteemed
position as Director General Technical Assistance, United Nations,
to include this accolade on his or her Curriculum Vitae, but Dr. Hoffer
does not seem to have done so.
  As well, all research into the details of the position seem to lead
nowhere, except when one makes personal inquiries through people who
were involved with closely connected areas of the UN agency at the
time, and, even then, when one begins to ask more detailed questions
about the involvement-of/relationship-with Kurt Waldheim, etc., people's
memories suddenly get much worse, and, by golly it seems that they can't
seem to remember hardly anything at all, and think that maybe they were
mistaken about what they already told you.

  Of course, when one looks under the dustbins of history, one invariably
finds a few dustballs that remain, as a result of someone forgetting to
do a thourough cleaning, and one finds such gems as a letter from The
Commission For The Study Of Creative Imagination, with such notables/
suspects such as Hoffer, Hubbard, Osmond, Huxley. Smythies, on the Board
of Directors (with Hoffer's UN position highlighted), making inquiries 
into the Urantia manuscripts which Hitler's Deaths Head troops found
so enamoring. 
    
"Our little planet, Urantia, is poised on the brink of an enthralling
epoch of social readjustment, moral quickening, and spiritual
enlightenment -- the threshold of true civilization."
{Of particular interest is the lack of any mention of Reptilian Nazis,
 even though it seems to be common knowledge that Jesus descended into
 the bowels of the earth during his three days of being incommunicado.
 Were there 'basement stairs' in his 'burial' cave?}


  Also curiously missing from all references to the history of psychiatry
and/or hallucinogenic mind-control experimentation in Canada is mention
of an individual whose name I encountered many times in Saskatchewan, and
always in relation to communities which contained major mental health
hospitals or facilities--Frank Skanks.

  The above, of course, is just the tip of the iceberg that one discovers
upon doing a bit of research into known and documented human figures in
the history of mental health research and practice in Saskatchewan.
  If one begins investigations into some of the more shadowy figures who
are usually encountered only when viewing their electroshock treatments
from the ceiling above, or by following them from one's doctor's office
and eavesdropping on them during their lunch, etc., then things get, as
Alice noted, "curiouser and curiouser..."

  Stan, you've still got something hanging from your lip...




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC 
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 05:14:27 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: I95 - SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS!!!
Message-ID: <009C97EF.202780A0.1@west.cscwc.pima.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I(95)'m An Asshole - SPACE ALIENS HIDE M DRUGS!!!
__________________________________________________

  Been an asshole all my life...

  I suppose I should keep my obligation to be true to my word and provide
the RCMP with details of my life of crime, in order to help the Canadian
Justice system to compensate for the ignorant incompetence of Canada's
National Internal Police Force.
  I guess it was kind of mean of me to 'confess' to a crime I committed
over a quarter-century ago, on which the Statute Of Limitations has
undoubtedly run out.
  So I'm a belligerant, smart-alec asshole...so sue me!

  Regardless, I feel obligated to give up the Real Goods this time, by
confessing to a more recent crime for which I can undoubtedly be charged,
tried and convicted, without anything remotely resembling True Justice 
standing in the way...
  Get out the warrant and lick your pen, Dudley, because I confess to 
being guilty of none other than...Accessory After The Fact To Grand 
Theft Auto!
  Less than two years ago, nonetheless!



  Personally, I think that Officer Besalt should get the honour of 
throwing the cuffs on me for this charge, since the actual perpetrator
of the car theft was his good BumBuddyAidsInfestedDrugAddictedInformant,
Ian Wasacase, on whose behalf Officer Besalt, a SorryScumBagPieceOfShit
ThievingPrick (TM) robbed me at gunpoint in full public view, at the
CoalDust Saloon, in Bienfait Saskatchewan.
  RCMP Officer AJ Besalt, a piece of Human Garbage who has the conscience
and intellect of a Slug, not only seems incapable of feeling any sense of
shame in dressing up in his neatly pressed uniform, with his shiny badge
and shoes, and telling a judge, with a straight face, nonetheless, that,
despite his incompetence in being able to produce the proper paperwork
on a DogAtLarge charge that he commanded the plaintiff to appear in court
on, under the threat of armed, physical violence, the case should be
continued, with a new date set, in order for him not to feel like an
incompetent moron for being able to handle a simple DogAtLarge case any
better than he did an attempted DrugBust, ending up having to retrieve
their government informant/agent's DrugBuyFrontMoney at gunpoint from
a citizen who had committed no crime.

  Oh, pardon me...I would hate for anyone to get the *wrong* impression,
here...
  OffalSir Besalt didn't actually mention the part about using a career
criminal and police informant to attempt to frame a disabled person on
a drug charge by using the threat of violence to get him to sell some of
his medication in return for marked money.
  I guess he didn't want to take up the Court's valueable time with
insignificant details.

  Lest the reader believe, Dog forbid, that I am stringing out my sincere
confession in order to torture a poor, pathetic excuse for a human being
by including facts and details that never quite seem to make it into the
Offical Police Reports, I guess I had best get on with supplying the
details of my HeinousCrime.


  I was very young as a child... 

  OK, really, now...

  Ian Wasacase, former preacher , had come to Estevan to
bestow his blessed presence on his brother, Gilbert, and his family.
He had driven down with his NewImprovedDrugAddictedOldLady and a couple
of friends who were apparently his apprentices in his life of crime.
  As overjoyed as Gilbert and his wife, Peggy, were to see Gilbert's
beloved brother, Ian, they nonetheless that, in the interest of saving
the life of several single children, their own, that it would be best
if Ian and his SpoonFed Roadies were to depart, and thus not further
endangering the lives of the family's children by shooting their AIDS
infested blood all over the floor, walls and ceiling of the bathroom
and the children's bedrooms.
  In consternation with the difficulty of getting the FamilyJunkie and
friends out of his home, Gilbert offered to pay my expenses to make a
trip to Regina, which he knew I needed to do anyway, in return for
leading his brother to believe that I had a medical prescription that
was waiting for me in Regina, which I would be interested in selling
to pick up a little cash.

  It worked like a charm...
  Ian and the SpoonFed Roadies had their belongings packed and were 
waiting outside, by the vehicles, in 32-seconds flat. (A new world
record!)
  Ian's old lady and two friends climbed into my motorhome, explaining
that the heater in the car they had brought didn't work very well, and
we proceeded down the highway, toward Regina, with me following Ian's
car with my motorhome.

  Well, not exactly...
  It turns out that it wasn't Ian's car. It wasn't his old lady's car.
It wasn't either of his friends' car.
  I pretty much figured that out when he pulled over by the side of the
road, motioning for me to stop, and then turned onto a small snow-filled
side road which received no winter maintenance, and proceeded to put the
pedal to the metal, going up and over a railway crossing, and down the
other side into a deep snowbank where the car would be hidden until spring
thaw. My instincts were further confirmed when he appeared, walking back,
with a hammer, a large screwdriver, and the license plates off the car.

  Did I inform the police of this? Did I turn him in?
  Nope...I'm AnAccessoryAfterTheFact.

  To tell the truth, being AnAccessoryAfterTheFact has, thus far, resulted
in far less jail time than any of the attempts I have made during my life
to provide information and/or assistance to those who are officially sworn
to uphold the law.
  It always seems that those who perpetrate crimes are much more informed
on the legal technicalities regarding crimes and criminal proceedings than
those who happen to be standing nearby with their thumb up their ass,
committing crimes only against themselves.
  In the end, it always seems to end up that the person who murdered a
few hundred babies in their crib gets probation in return for turning
State's Evidence against the person who wanders into the room and says,
"Uuuhhh...I really don't think you should be doing this."

  Cynical? Moi?
  Eat my shorts...I'm talking about Real Life (TM) here, boys and girls,
not about Matlock, OK?

  So, there you have it, Dudley.
  A full confession that can be used to convict me, coming from my own
lips (so to speak, although I actually type with my tongue).
  No longer will you have to haul my ass repeatedly into court in vain
attempts to convict me of crimes of which I am not guilty, as a result
of sloppy investigative work and a propensity to ignore the fact that
your witnesses are lying scumbag sacks of shit who would testify against
their own mothers to get out of their own criminal charges.

[EditWhore's Gnote: Since the confession, per se, is complete, members of
 Royal Canadian Mounted Police may want to forgoe reading the rest of my
 diatribe, since it will merely fill in a few small details regarding
 the incompetent, criminal and unconsionable actions of Officer Besalt.]

  Upon reaching Regina, after the commission of my Heinous Crime of
AnAccessoryAfterTheFactToGrandTheftAuto, I decided that I would drop
the GrandTheftAutoPerpetrator, et al, off at their place of residence,
purporting to go pick up my medications and return, to make my fortune
selling them my medications at outrageously low prices.
  Instead, I seemed to get stuck in the driveway behind their house, even
though the snow was not very deep, and I had little trouble driving in.
  After going in the house to warm up and get a shovel, which it turns 
out they didn't have, Ian took my winter coat to go get a shovel, or some
friends to help, or somesuch. He soon returned without the jacket, without
a shovel, and without any friends. Since it was thirty or forty below zero
and they had no phone, I quickly began to suspect that, since I obviously
wasn't going anywhere, Ian & Company had come to the conclusion that a
bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, and that once they were in
possession of the medication I currently had, then they could look forward
to a bright future in which there might actually be another bird out there
somewhere, in the form of a prescription for further medication.

  Although I would be the last one to heap praise upon Ian for the choices
he has made in his life, neither would I be the first to heap huge amounts
of abuse on him for his character, or lack thereof.
  The reason for this is quite simple...he didn't kill me.

  Ian is a drug addict, with a ferocious habit to feed, and little stength
of character left with which to attempt to avoid falling into total moral
depravity. However, he chose to scam me, steal from me while I slept, and
the like, over the course of several days, instead of just whacking me
over the head with an axe and taking all of my medication.
  This small bit of self-restraint on his part allowed me to split my
supply of medication into small stashes which I could allow him to find
and steal at a rate suitable for keeping his habit in check, and buy me
time for the temperature to rise to a scorching twenty below zero, at
which time I made a break for a friend's house some distance away, and
suffered only minor frostbite in the process.

  As far as Officer Besalt, RCMP, is concerned, however...Fuck That
Sorry Criminal ScumSucking Piece Of Crap In His Dirty Little Asshole!
  Officer Besalt, too ignorant to realize who was grinding the organ,
and who was dancing with the funny hat and the tin cup, brought Ian
down to Estevan in an attempt to bust me for selling my medication.
  ou see, Ian had been working as an informant for the RCMP in other
Saskatchewan districts, enabling the Mounties to arrest and convict
a number of desperados, some of whose crime seemed to be wanting to
kick Ian's ass for fucking their sisters while being AIDS infested,
without telling them. 
 {In all fairness to the Mounties, Ian's bragging about the people who
  he had screwed over as a police informant indicated that half of them
  were probably guilty of *something*...}

  Thus it was that Ian and his old lady appeared on my doorstep in the
small hamlet of Bienfait, late one night, wanting to purchase some of
my medication. He pulled a wad of money out of his pocket, and seemed
fully prepared to make a buy...

 [Note by AnEditorToBeBustedLater: What it is essential to understand,
  here, is that any individual on the face of the earth, no matter how
  dim-witted, could immediately take one look at Ian, seeing him for
  the first time, and instinctively realize that no matter how desperate
  he was for a fix, even if he had a million dollars in his pocket, he
  would first try every scam in the world to steal whatever drugs a 
  person had before he would finally break down and actually *buy* them
  in an honest, straightforward deal.]

  I stood there looking at the cash in his hand, mentally visualizing
a picture of Dudley DoRight where the Queen's picture normally is, and
immediately came to three quick conclusions:
1) The motherfucker *owed* me for the several hundred dollars that it
took for me to replace my tires and get my motorhome mobile again.
(Not to mention the thousand or so dollars of damage he did to the
 interior while tearing it apart, looking for drugs.)
2) Ian was only holding forth $ 40.00, out of the several hundred in
his possession, obviously intending to purchase a couple of pills,
stash the rest of the money in his sock, and pick up a couple of hundred
bucks in spare change, over and above what the RCMP were paying him to
help frame innocent people.
3) Since Ian was totally incapable of going more than a few hours without
drugs, he undoubtedly had some in his possession (probably provided by
the Dudley DoRight Pharmacutical Company), and that if I didn't do a
deal with him, he might very well stash the forty bucks in my house on
his way out, and turn over a few pills of his private stash as evidence
against me.

  I don't like jail...never have...never will...
  Regardless, there was not a snowball's chance in hell that I was going
to pass up an opportunity to fuck Ian out of forty bucks.
  I snatched the $ 40.00 out of his hand, and said, "OK! I'll meet you
at the CoalDust Saloon in ten minutes. I've got the shit stashed outside."

  Ian knew I was scamming him, but he wasn't sure how. Neither was I, but
I had ten minutes to figure it out...

Basic Rules Of Life #238:
If your's is the strength of ten, because your heart is pure, and you are
working for the Forces of Light...never pull your scams in a dark alley.
Dark alleys are for criminals, and the criminal with the badge and the
gun invariably win the battle.

Basic Rules Of Life #239:
Criminals are afraid of the light...even criminals with badges and guns.
"Sunshine is the best disinfectant." ~ Judge Louis Brandeis


  I went to the CoalDust Saloon, and used one of the twenties to buy a
beer for myself and Ian. Ian wanted me to give him the drugs, and I told
him to hold on for a minute.
  I walked over to the change machine by the Video Lottery Terminals and
put the other twenty and the beer change in, turning them into loonies.
I gave Ian ten of the Loonies.
  I proceeded to put the rest of the Loonies into a VLT machine and begin
gambling.

  Ian asked me where the drugs were. I told him to fuck off. He looked
hurt and hung around like a kicked puppy, while his old lady made a call
on the pay phone.
  Officer Besalt walked through the door of the CoalDust Saloon a few
minutes later.

[eah, yeah, it's me again: The RCMP cover a lot of territory in a thinly
 populated area, around Estevan, and thus it takes them a considerable 
 amount of time to respond to calls. It may take them several hours to
 respond to a traffic accident, or thirty minutes to an hour to respond 
 to serious crimes late at night. If they walk through the door five
 minutes after being called, it is because they were sitting around
 the corner, and waited for four minutes before getting out of their
 vehicle and coming in.]

  Officer Besalt needed to get the Mountie's DrugFrontMoney back while
pretending it was Ian's money.
  Lottsa luck...

  We discussed the situation, as I sat playing the VLT, and I quite simply
told the OffalSir that Ian had offered me money to buy drugs from me and
that I had taken it, since he owed me hundreds of dollars for having 
slashed my tires in order to hold me hostage and steal my drugs in Regina.
  Unfortunately, I didn't use the word 'taken.' I told OffalSir Besalt
that I had 'snatched' the money from Ian's hand, whereupon both Besalt
and I knew that he was now free to fuck with me if I did not return the
money, since I had implied that Ian might not have relinquished the money
totally voluntarily.
  Although I was between a rock and a hard place, not having the money,
there *is* a Dog! I hit a minor jackpot that gave me forty bucks.

  As I waited for the barmaid to cash in my ticket and bring me the money,
I made a point of going into great detail, loud enough for everyone nearby
to hear, about how the person on whose behalf the RCMP Officer was shaking
me down was a drug addict who was attempting to make a drug buy from me,
and how I was unwilling to commit the crime, desiring only to receive the
money that he owed me for slashing my tires and holding me hostage in
severe winter conditions in the BigCity.
  "Sunshine is the best disinfectant."

The Bottom Line:
  OffalSir Besalt is a sorry, scumbag Nazi piece of shit with no better
morals or conscience than to try to use a lying, conniving criminal scam-
artist who has provided countless Canadian youth with hard drugs while
working as a paid RCMP agent/informant, to attempt to entrap a mentally
disabled individual into committing a crime by selling his medications
in order to prevent once again being victimized by a lifetime criminal.

  Oh, yeah...and *I* have never murdered anyone by giving them AIDS
while being under the legal protection of the RCMP.

_____________________
Non-Adobe PostScript:
  One of the more humorous aspects of the Ian Wasacase Saga was a news
story in the Regina Leader Post in regard to the RCMP's ultra-secret
informant/witness in the trial of four(?) men accused of armed robbery
(and murder?). 
  After describing the individual's identity being cloaked by his
participation in the Witness Protection Program, the Leader Post, toward
the end of the article, revealed Ian's name.
  Duuhhh...

  Ian is now serving hard time in a Manitoba prison as a result of a
multitude of armed robberies he committed while working under the
protective umbrella of the RCMP.
{Undoubtedly hoping that his cellmates don't have a subscription to
 the Regina Leader Post.}

  Officer Besalt is serving hard time as a result of being trapped in
the mind and body of an Ignorant Nazi Fuck (TM).
{Undoubtedly too fucking ignorant to realize that he would be much better
 off being Ian Wasacase.}

Attention Law Enforcement Agents:
"Smoke 'em if you confiscated 'em..."





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 03:37:58 -0700 (PDT)
To: "Jia Yan" 
Subject: Re: where...
In-Reply-To: <19980721071954.AAA9474@pc-230>
Message-ID: <199807211036.GAA07241@users.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In <19980721071954.AAA9474@pc-230>, on 07/21/98 
   at 04:25 PM, "Jia Yan"  said:

>Hi:
>	Does anybody can tell me in which ftp site i can find the specifications
> about the CCITT's X.400 and X.500 protocol sets?
>	Thanx!

Well this one was a real bitch to find.

The CCITT is now the ITU: http://www.itu.ch

The Specs are at: http://www.itu.ch/publications/itu-t/itut.htm

The X.400 specs are actually located under F.400 as this spec has been
givien a dual designation of F.400/X.400

Seems that you have to *pay* for a copy of this spec, 39 Swiss Francs,
whatever that is in real money.

X.500 is the same deal but it is only 20 Swiss Francs.

The specs seem to be in postscript, adobe, and word formats. Engilsh,
French, and Spanish versions available.

They are set-up for online ordering and downloading. After you pay you are
given a username and password to download the file(s).

I think if you hunt around the site you may be able to pick up a copy of
all the specs on a CD but no idea what it costs.

Hopw this helps,

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgp.html
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: "640K ought to be enough for anybody." - Bill Gates, 1981

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3a-sha1
Charset: cp850
Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000

iQCVAwUBNbRwoY9Co1n+aLhhAQHMwAP8CUhzUwC1RnUHKH4IWt+x6Qc2cgoLFoe/
9/+mQcG2ai84yQiyCAqjkcDhukBYgCfpEGFNwqrqcMyuofP/PrkaEdjTigCHS7kd
xvm0+mPv9O6CPJCkkvj12/I9iZI5jMXWwmuO3CpQwzcfBgJ/M45UdkZpF8AwvLjz
EN5A3lFhayM=
=WCIU
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 02:12:56 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Thanks, phlamers!
Message-ID: <199807210913.LAA13592@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


     * To: cypherpunks@toad.com
     * Subject: Re: Request To Be Phlamed
     * From: Reeza! 


At 11:53 AM 18 07 98 -0700, GayWeb.Net wrote:
>Hi Guys

GO THE FUCK AWA. NOW.

______________________

I would like to thank all of you who helped to test my new
PresidentialDeathThreatRemailer by sending your flames to
the above address, to be forwarded to the BlancHouse.

[Please note that the PresidentialDeathThreatRemailer logs
and forwards all headers with the messages.]

I put the PresidentialDeathThreatRemailer into operation only
after receiving assurances from Jim Bell's public defender
attorney that I am legally free to help people exercise their
right of free speech in this manner, and that it would not
adversely affect my military career, as long as I was careful
to forward only flames and death threats, while deleting any
pictures of officers fucking the living shit out of non-coms.

All donations to the PresidentialDeathThreatRemailer will be
donated to the IRS Jalapeno Vaseline Fund.

Reezone Ozone





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 08:31:00 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: NSA's Long Strong Arm
Message-ID: <199807211530.LAA08035@camel8.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


>From a series in Network World, July 20, 1998,
"The Long, Strong Arm of the NSA," about the
Agency's methods of enforcing export obedience
with intimidation, delay and obfuscation:

 User manual: Dodging the rules 

 By Ellen Messmer Network World, 

 The National Security Agency (NSA) wrote the export rules 
on encryption. But from the point of view of corporations 
that want to ship U.S. software to their foreign offices, 
getting around the U.S. export rules is a top priority.

 And even for those who used to work at the NSA, it's still 
a challenge.

 "Well, I wrote those export rules when I was at the NSA," 
confessed Russell Davis, now chief of information technology 
security at SBC Warburg Dillon Read, a division of Swiss Bank 
Corp., which operates in 77 countries. Since joining the 
corporate life, Davis has used his knowledge of the NSA to 
find ways to work around the export system on behalf of his 
customer, the bank, which uses a lot of encryption-based 
security gear.

 "It took 17 months to figure out how to get crypto-based 
smart cards to Swiss facilities and elsewhere," Davis said. 
"But I wrote the rules on all this, and I know how to get 
around them." Would he ever consider using government-
approved data-recovery?

 "Never," Davis declared. "My customers come first!"

 "Our customers just aren't going to buy these types of 
products," said Tom Carty, vice president of business 
development for GTE CyberTrust. He agreed the government is 
leading industry down a path to build products few users 
will willingly buy.

---------

More at Network World:

 http://www.nwfusion.com/news/0720nsa.html  (requires sign-up)

Mirror:

 http://jya.com/nsa-lsa.htm

Thanks to MO.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 09:28:15 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Hooray Mondex
In-Reply-To: <199807211516.LAA14338@homeport.org>
Message-ID: <199807211628.MAA31959@camel8.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Here's a Chase-Mondex user's report from Manhattan's upper 
west side test bed:

1. We got about 20 of the first cards and sent them around the
globe to crackers. None shared the fruits but a few came back
with requests, see 2 :

2. By special request of sweettalking crackers who had heard 
about the first batch, we got a few more, and knowing these folks
were honest, we loaded the cards with a few bucks from our 
bank account as they asked, "for testing." Days later we were broke.

3. Chase refilled our account and apologized for insufficient
protection from electronic bandits. The bandits sent us 50%
of what they stole: $12.00. Rudely wrote: get a job.

4. Recently, we got two of Citibank's cards with $5.00 each on 
them. Tried for days to get local merchants to take them, none
would because they lacked a unique magnetic stripe they'd
been advised to watch for, which, we later learned, once swiped
could tap into global data banks on the user, clean their
accounts, screw their records, erase the institutionalized mugging, 
leave an audit showing it was the irresponsible military-site 
crackers who did it.

5. We got $5,000,000 digi-cash for that info from SDA, who 
got it from the institutions running the Mondex banditry: 
those ACP recommends the Commerce Department grant 
license exceptions for the export of encryption products of 
any strength that have been determined to be "legitimate 
and responsible."[*]

Happily Legitimate and Responsible

----------

* http://jya.com/acp-dier.htm





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: CTIA Daily News 
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 10:38:10 -0700 (PDT)
To: CTIA Daily News 
Subject: CTIA Daily News from WOW-COM - July 21, 1998
Message-ID: <199807211729.MAA16881@mailstrom.revnet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




==========================================
Welcome to today's edition of the CTIA Daily
News
from WOW-COM.  Please click on the icon /
attachment
for the most important news in wireless
communications today.

A new multi-billion dollar industry is here!

Be at CTIA's WIRELESS I.T. '98
where personal computing and communications
converge!

Don't Miss Your Chance -- October 12-14,
1998
Bally's Las Vegas, Las Vegas, NV

Call 202-785-0081 for more information.
===========================================

 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Leo 
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 11:10:43 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: you got that PGP program?
In-Reply-To: <99c9c87.35b3d24d@aol.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




On Mon, 20 Jul 1998 LrdWill@aol.com wrote:

> you got it?
> 

Not since the penicillin shots, no.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: mla39@gte.net
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 13:46:27 -0700 (PDT)
To: mla39@gte.net
Subject: Put your subject line here
Message-ID: <199807212040.PAA12975@smtp1.mailsrvcs.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


___________________________________________________________
This Message was Composed using Extractor Pro '98 Bulk E- Mail Software. If 
you wish to be removed from this advertiser's future mailings, please reply 
with the subject "Remove" and this software will automatically block you 
from their future mailings.

E-Source is pleased to announce that they are a Channel Parnter with TAVA, developers of the 
Plant Y2KOne Software System.  As a Channel Parnter, E-Source can reduce the costs and the 
risk associated with manufacturing plant conversions for the year 2000.

Visit www.tava.com for a review of the product.  Then contact E-Source directly at mla39@gte.net for a technical visit or review.  We have trained computer engineers ready to assist you on 
Y2K compliance issues.

Mel Arendt
EVP- E-Source
mla39@gte.net 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Jia Yan" 
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 01:25:06 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: where...
Message-ID: <19980721071954.AAA9474@pc-230>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hi:
	Does anybody can tell me in which ftp site i can find the specifications
 about the CCITT's X.400 and X.500 protocol sets?
	Thanx!
 
	




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Richard Storey <"cognitus"@earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 13:34:04 -0700 (PDT)
To: John Young 
Subject: Re: NSA's Long Strong Arm
In-Reply-To: <199807211530.LAA08035@camel8.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <35B4FBC9.F5E75026@earthlink.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


John Young wrote:
> 
> >From a series in Network World, July 20, 1998,
> "The Long, Strong Arm of the NSA," about the
> Agency's methods of enforcing export obedience
> with intimidation, delay and obfuscation:

At http://jya.com/nsa-lsa.htm,

the first article is the most interesting. It demonstrates what I have
always believed, that the state's reason for limiting encryption was
mainly to pressure corporations, who are driven by profits, to adopt the
state's desired encryption features. These NSA-approved products from
American corporations should be seen as contaminated, tainted and
poisoned.

Would you purchase hardware or software that meets the government's
export standards--approved by NSA?

"Never," Davis declared. "My customers come first!"


Richard Storey




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED/EUREKA! 
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 12:38:20 -0700 (PDT)
To: All Eureka/Stuffed Subscribers: ;
Subject: Donkey Dick: Man tries penis swap with Donkey/Springer's 'love child'
Message-ID: <19980721174201.1221.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Welcome to  today's  issue of Stuffed. To read it you should
click on the URL below.  If it is not made clickable by your
email program  you will need to  use your mouse to highlight
the line,  copy it and then paste it into your browser (then
press Return).

http://stuffed.net/98/7/21/

If you  have an email program that can display web pages you
will find today's front cover should have already been disp-
layed and can be clicked on to take you straight to Stuffed.

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: VideAll  USA 
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 22:04:13 -0700 (PDT)
To: VideoEnthusiast@egret.prod.itd.earthlink.net
Subject: Thanks for the visit
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Just a note to thank you for your past visit
to our old aol based website, which presents
the VideAll for video-taping everyone.  Please 
visit our new site at http://www.videall.com.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Reeza! 
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 06:50:14 -0700 (PDT)
To: "Corvus Corvax" 
Subject: Re: Requests
In-Reply-To: <19980720203908.28197.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980721224922.0084d980@205.83.192.13>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 01:39 PM 20 07 98 PDT, Corvus Corvax wrote:
>
>> What some of them seem to want would appear to be _me_ (and you).
>
>Only because you'd look so absolutely luscious in leather, darling. 
>
>Kiss kiss, 
>
>Diva! von Future Prime
>

 Luscious in leather is something nice, 
 BUT:
 "Luscious" does not suit me.

Lusty, vigorous and virile, perhaps, but not luscious.


DID YOU SEE THAT?
IT was FREE SPEECH! On a UFO~!

Reeza!




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: CompSec01@aol.com
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 10:08:40 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Tempest computers
Message-ID: <4da466f2.35b58852@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


If you would like information about tempest monitors, computers, printers or
secure fax machines, please contact me.

Tempest tecnology prohibits the electronic monitoring of electromagnetic
emissions from the above listed devices.  This is the core of our business.
Sincerely,
Karen Azoff
Computer Security Solutions, Inc.
6190 Grovedale Ct.,#200
Alexandria, VA  22310 ph. US 703 922-0633 fax US 703 922-0963
email; kte4mpest@aol.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ZeroInt.at.birmingham.crosswinds.net (ZeroInt)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 10:21:19 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: (fwd) Topic is Internet server stalkers AKA Cyberpunks
Message-ID: <35bb70fa.5628631@mail.zebra.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Thought this might be of interest.

On Tue, 21 Jul 1998 12:40:48 -0500, in misc.survivalism "~The Seventh
Sign~"  said:

>Nobody important wrote
>
>Hello people I will address this in an off topic way to many of you but you must learn about the
>type of individual we have been dealing with.
>
>1.)Has plenty of time on his hands and may be something else in his had is you catch my drift.
>2.)Thinks it is a cool thing to try to shut down servers and hack into systems. Use to have his own
>web site but not now.
>3.)Has use of library computers so he thinks he won't get caught.
>4.)Mad at his Dad for not being there for him. Making him made at the world.
>5.)Has been posting sollog crap trying to shut down servers that burned him.
>6.)Thinks 'Archangle'(A well known name in the hackers sites.) is his mentor.
>7.)Has probably send hate mail to you and other members of the group using the anonymous remailers
>rigging the response to finger the other member of the group.
>
>
>Who's servers is he trying to shut down you ask.
>www.theasi.com (Hacking (Don't get your info here a page cost you $9.95USA), sollog and other
>bullshit)
>www.theeunderground.net Ditto the above!
>www.replay.com Anonymous remailers that he has been abusing like rubber gloves after hemorrhoid
>surgery. You could send the stuff to abuse@replay.com but I think the little punk wants you to mail
>bomb his account. or you could send your complaints to postmaster@nym.alias.net but you would play
>into the little punks hand like I did.
>
>DEFENSE AGAINST THIS ANTAGONIST IS SIMPLE:
>whatshitten will be his name from this point on.
>Solagged would be good too.
>A profit prophet is what sollog is no predictions have ever come true.
>
>Just take my message and repost it under all of his post thank you!
>
>
>
>
>





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ZeroInt.at.birmingham.crosswinds.net (ZeroInt)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 13:02:45 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: (fwd) Topic is Internet server stalkers AKA Cyberpunks
Message-ID: <35b97056.5464309@mail.birmingham.crosswinds.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Though this might be of interest

On Tue, 21 Jul 1998 12:40:48 -0500, in misc.survivalism "~The Seventh
Sign~"  said:

Nobody important wrote

Hello people I will address this in an off topic way to many of you
but you must learn about the
type of individual we have been dealing with.

1.)Has plenty of time on his hands and may be something else in his
had is you catch my drift.
2.)Thinks it is a cool thing to try to shut down servers and hack into
systems. Use to have his own
web site but not now.
3.)Has use of library computers so he thinks he won't get caught.
4.)Mad at his Dad for not being there for him. Making him made at the
world.
5.)Has been posting sollog crap trying to shut down servers that
burned him.
6.)Thinks 'Archangle'(A well known name in the hackers sites.) is his
mentor.
7.)Has probably send hate mail to you and other members of the group
using the anonymous remailers
rigging the response to finger the other member of the group.


Who's servers is he trying to shut down you ask.
www.theasi.com (Hacking (Don't get your info here a page cost you
$9.95USA), sollog and other
bullshit)
www.theeunderground.net Ditto the above!
www.replay.com Anonymous remailers that he has been abusing like
rubber gloves after hemorrhoid
surgery. You could send the stuff to abuse@replay.com but I think the
little punk wants you to mail
bomb his account. or you could send your complaints to
postmaster@nym.alias.net but you would play
into the little punks hand like I did.

DEFENSE AGAINST THIS ANTAGONIST IS SIMPLE:
whatshitten will be his name from this point on.
Solagged would be good too.
A profit prophet is what sollog is no predictions have ever come true.

Just take my message and repost it under all of his post thank you!










From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Gilmore 
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 10:40:12 -0700 (PDT)
To: John Lowry 
Subject: Re: John Gilmore and the Great Internet Snake Drive
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980720114859.009997f0@dave.bbn.com>
Message-ID: <199807221318.GAA03684@cygint.cygnus.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


> One lesson I plan to observe - don't encrypt known plaintext unless you
> have to !

The EFF DES Cracker cracks more than just known plaintext (though it's
the easy case).  It also cracks plaintexts whose likely byte values
are known (e.g. all alphanumeric), winnowing the keyspace down to a
size that software or humans can search.  Such a search runs in very
close to the time required for an ordinary known-plaintext search.
See the book for details (www.oreilly.com).

We successfully cracked a DES-encrypted Eudora saved-mail file
provided by Bruce Schneier during our debugging period.  He gave us
the top byte of the key so we could focus on debugging rather than on
waiting to get to the right block of keyspace.  The machine located
the key within that 49-bit keyspace after we fixed a few software
bugs.

	John




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Eureka Daily News 
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 11:27:06 -0700 (PDT)
To: All Eureka! Subscribers: ;
Subject: -> Eureka! Wed Jul 22 '98
Message-ID: <19980722075733.27465.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


<<< No Message Collected >>>




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Lucky Green" 
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 10:30:05 -0700 (PDT)
To: "John Gilmore" 
Subject: RE: John Gilmore and the Great Internet Snake Drive
In-Reply-To: <199807221318.GAA03684@cygint.cygnus.com>
Message-ID: <000801bdb583$b8b736c0$931daace@default>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


John,
Do you plan on renting out the use of the cracker on a per-key basis and if
so, how much do you anticipate charging for cracking a message?

Thanks,
--Lucky

> -----Original Message-----
> From: e$@vmeng.com [mailto:e$@vmeng.com]On Behalf Of John Gilmore
> Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 1998 6:19 AM
> To: John Lowry
> Cc: Robert Hettinga; gnu@toad.com; cryptography@c2.net;
> coderpunks@toad.com; cypherpunks@toad.com; e$@vmeng.com;
> dcsb@ai.mit.edu; gnu@cygnus.com
> Subject: Re: John Gilmore and the Great Internet Snake Drive
>
>
> > One lesson I plan to observe - don't encrypt known plaintext unless you
> > have to !
>
> The EFF DES Cracker cracks more than just known plaintext (though it's
> the easy case).  It also cracks plaintexts whose likely byte values
> are known (e.g. all alphanumeric), winnowing the keyspace down to a
> size that software or humans can search.  Such a search runs in very
> close to the time required for an ordinary known-plaintext search.
> See the book for details (www.oreilly.com).
>
> We successfully cracked a DES-encrypted Eudora saved-mail file
> provided by Bruce Schneier during our debugging period.  He gave us
> the top byte of the key so we could focus on debugging rather than on
> waiting to get to the right block of keyspace.  The machine located
> the key within that 49-bit keyspace after we fixed a few software
> bugs.
>
> 	John
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Where people, networks and money come together: Consult Hyperion
> http://www.hyperion.co.uk/                   info@hyperion.co.uk
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Full-Strength Cryptographic Solutions for Worldwide Electronic Commerce
> http://www.c2.net/                                   stronghold@c2.net
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Like e$? Help pay for it!
> For e$/e$pam sponsorship or donations, 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Jia Yan" 
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 17:57:00 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: Re: where...
Message-ID: <19980721234852.AAA14790@pc-230>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Thank you very much!
but i think i can work out sum better ones with the money. 

----------
> From: William H. Geiger III 
> To: Jia Yan 
> Cc: cypherpunks@toad.com
> Subject: Re: where...
> Date: Tuesday, July 21, 1998 6:28 PM
> 
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> 
> In <19980721071954.AAA9474@pc-230>, on 07/21/98 
>    at 04:25 PM, "Jia Yan"  said:
> 
> >Hi:
> >	Does anybody can tell me in which ftp site i can find the
specifications
> > about the CCITT's X.400 and X.500 protocol sets?
> >	Thanx!
> 
> Well this one was a real bitch to find.
> 
> The CCITT is now the ITU: http://www.itu.ch
> 
> The Specs are at: http://www.itu.ch/publications/itu-t/itut.htm
> 
> The X.400 specs are actually located under F.400 as this spec has been
> givien a dual designation of F.400/X.400
> 
> Seems that you have to *pay* for a copy of this spec, 39 Swiss Francs,
> whatever that is in real money.
> 
> X.500 is the same deal but it is only 20 Swiss Francs.
> 
> The specs seem to be in postscript, adobe, and word formats. Engilsh,
> French, and Spanish versions available.
> 
> They are set-up for online ordering and downloading. After you pay you
are
> given a username and password to download the file(s).
> 
> I think if you hunt around the site you may be able to pick up a copy of
> all the specs on a CD but no idea what it costs.
> 
> Hopw this helps,
> 
> - -- 
> - ---------------------------------------------------------------
> William H. Geiger III  http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii
> Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0
> 
> Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
> PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
> OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgp.html
> - ---------------------------------------------------------------
>  
> Tag-O-Matic: "640K ought to be enough for anybody." - Bill Gates, 1981
> 
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: 2.6.3a-sha1
> Charset: cp850
> Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000
> 
> iQCVAwUBNbRwoY9Co1n+aLhhAQHMwAP8CUhzUwC1RnUHKH4IWt+x6Qc2cgoLFoe/
> 9/+mQcG2ai84yQiyCAqjkcDhukBYgCfpEGFNwqrqcMyuofP/PrkaEdjTigCHS7kd
> xvm0+mPv9O6CPJCkkvj12/I9iZI5jMXWwmuO3CpQwzcfBgJ/M45UdkZpF8AwvLjz
> EN5A3lFhayM=
> =WCIU
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Jean-Francois Avon" 
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 09:53:53 -0700 (PDT)
To: "e$@vmeng.com" , "Cypherpunks" 
Subject: FLASH:    Fwd: Modification to ITAR under way: Will it affect crypto too?
Message-ID: <199807221424.KAA02460@cti06.citenet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Hi Cypherpunks.
I fell on that text in the Canadian Firearms Digest, V2 #506 today.
Maybe somebody will want to look into it to see what part of ITAR was modified and if it will affect crypto...

Please feel free to forward to every possibly interested party.

Ciao
jfa


=============================================================
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 06:29:54 -0600
From: Rod Regier 
Subject: US Export controls saga update

(http://www.pmdtc.org/oas.PDF)  indicates that US State Dept. expects
the current exemption of Canada from the ITAR export permit
requirements for firearms and ammunition (and parts thereof)
to be rescinded soon.

When I spoke to a US State Department employee, they indicated they
were being told it is going to happen in a few days.

They gave me a Canadian government employee counterpart contact
information (?Dept of Foreign Affairs?).

I spoke with the Canadian government contact, and was pleasantly
surprised for a change.

I was told that Canada plans to contest this threatened action, since
in part it could have wider trade implications outside the firearms
and ammunition realm.  This is certainly refreshing, since on the
whole the current Canadian administration has generally leapt at any
chance to put it to the Canadian firearms community.

My contact expressed the belief that a change in Canada's ITAR permit
exemption status by the United States cannot be accomplished solely by
Executive branch action, but must be cleared thru the Legislative
branch (Congress) too.  If that is indeed the case, it is much less
certain of approval, since the anti-gunners may control the US
Executive branch, but they don't control US Congress at this time.



- --
Rod Regier, Software Development                bus: (902)422-1973 x108
Dymaxion Research Ltd., 5515 Cogswell St.,      fax: (902)421-1267
Halifax, Nova Scotia, B3J 1R2 Canada          email: RRegier@dymaxion.ca
                                      corporate url: http://www.dymaxion.ca






Jean-Francois Avon, B.Sc. Physics, Montreal, Canada
  DePompadour, Société d'Importation Ltée
     Limoges fine porcelain and french crystal
  JFA Technologies, R&D physicists & engineers
     Instrumentation & control, LabView programming
PGP keys: http://bs.mit.edu:8001/pks-toplev.html
PGP ID:C58ADD0D:529645E8205A8A5E F87CC86FAEFEF891 
PGP ID:5B51964D:152ACCBCD4A481B0 254011193237822C


From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC 
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 12:14:53 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Arty Farcer - SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS!!!
Message-ID: <009C98E6.6753AF60.5@west.cscwc.pima.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Arty Farcer, Intelligence - SPACE ALIENS HIDE M DRUGS!!!
_________________________________________________________

  Professer Stephen Grossman, chief cognitator at Boston University's
Department of Cognitive and Neural Systems, has created Thing1 and
Thing2--robots which can adapt to their environment by mastering
approach and avoidance behavior.
  He states, "The networks we're building here learn from examples and
exhibit some capability for generalization beyond the training data 
we've put into them."

  Brian Fitzgerald, in the Summer 1998 issue of Bostonia, points out that
the "neural networks enable the robots to teach themselves...predict
impending impacts, and use the same patterns to suppress movements that
would cause collisions."


  It seems to me that the same technology could be used to instigate
movements that would *cause* collisions...

  Let's say, for instance, that AMadScientistFromEstevanNamedEarlier
had developed a program which could use data from the power usage of
oil-well pumping stations to predict approaching mechanical failure,
and enable the owners to schedule maintenance, thus saving the major
cost of down-time and mechanical failures which were costly due to
breakdown affecting more than the original faulty part.
  Let's also say that a Fucking Idiot who swatted a fly on top of his
exposed hard drive, with a newspaper, fucking it up, mechanically, also
discovered that he could 'fix' the internal arms of the hard drive by
writing a program that made the skinny little internal arms of the
drive work their way, over and over again, toward the faulty area, from
alternating sides of the bad spot.
  Let's further speculate that the Fucking Idiot speculated that any
computer part that could be mechanically 'fixed' by a repetitive program
could also be mechanically 'fucked' by a repetitive program, and that
the SickFuck had friends who knew everything there is to know about
the internal workings of computer hardware peripherals, mean-time between
failures, and all manner of little-known facts about good and bad design
techniques in a wide range of computer hardware fields.
  Lastly, let's speculate that some very BadMenAndWomen with BigGuns
had stolen the SickFucker's computer, and his nephew's computer, and
that he had access to the ThievingPricks' computer systems.

  Thus, if it came to pass that the SickFuck could supply his friends
with the details of the computer hardware and peripherals used by the
BadMenAndWomenWithBigGuns, then his friends could write programs which
would put extra strain on the known weak points of the system, drastically
lowering the mean-time between failures.
  If the SickFuck had already tested his friend's programs on $ 50.00
used computers he had purchased in Regina, Saskatchewan, then they would
have already been able to tweak the programs into little SickFuck Digital
Roe&WadeBots which would be able to perform mechanical abortions at any
stage of DigitalLabor, thus being able to control the failure rate in
imperceptible increments over a wide range of systems, so that, over the
course of a year, it would cost the BadMenAndWomenWithBigGuns millions of
dollars by the time they figured out that the SickFuck had his Richard
shoved up their asshole.
  If the SickFuck's friends in LostAlamo were BrilliantSickFucks, they
might even take it upon themselves to develop a program capable of keeping
track of how the maintainers of various computer systems would deal with
different problems (e.g. 'fixing' vs. 'replacing') and create their little
BrilliantSickFuckPrograms to learn how to force the computer maintainers
to 'replace' the hardware shortly after they had spent their time and
resources 'fixing' the hardware.

  Lastly, if the BrilliantSickFucks were very grateful to the SickFuck
for providing them with information which would enable them to write
what one would think would be incredibly complex programs in the space
of a few short hours, the BrillianSickFucks might provide the SickFuck
with simple device-drivers which could use such unlikely hardware as
printers and programmable keyboards to automatically renew backdoors
into compromised systems in the event the backdoor was found and removed.

[Debitor's Note: T. Arthur, after working with the first version of M$
 Word which made use of macro's, realized the potential for using them
 for distributing Ribbed Trojan Horses, and Digital Simplex Viruses.
 T. Arthur, being a nice fellow, took the time and trouble to phone
 M$ Support, wait on the line for 342 hours, and inform them that there
 was a possible problem with their program being able to transmit RTH's
 and DSV's.
 The M$ UnSupportive RepresentativeOfTheM$AttitudeAtTheTime, was gracious
 enough to take time out of his busy schedule to launch into a long and
 acidic beration of T. Arthur as a neophyte computer idiot who was unaware
 that everyone in the industry *knew* that "you can't get a virus from 
 opening a text file."
 When T. Arthur related this incident to a group of LostBoys&Girls who
 were solving all of the problems of the computer industry, for all of
 eternity, using pitchers of Margueritas at the Holiday Inn Bar in 
 Albuquerque to keep their GreyMatterCPU's from overheating, more than
 one of those gathered pointed out that T. Arthur's brain was running
 on 12-Volts/DC, because most of them had figured out the potential for
 the 'Macro Virus' (to be 'discovered' years later), "before the program's
 shrink-wrap had hit the floor."]

  Doc Watson, on a grand summer day in Austin, Texas, walked into the
Armadillo Beer Garden while I was playing a song he wrote, 'Tennessee
Stud,' which has a classic guitar riff, which everyone imitates.
  Doc complimented me on my rendition of his tune, noting that he was
impressed with my unique 'interpretation' of his famous riff, and that
he found it refreshing to hear someone doing something other than the
standard autobot version.
  Being the TruthMonger, I was forced to admit to him that I had first
tried to 'rip off' his licks from the album, but, being a really crappy
guitar player, I was forced to improvise.
  It's the story of my life...

  Although it is True (TM) that I am TheWorld'sForemostComputerExpert,
I am pretty much only 'expert' in very bizarre areas of computer hardware
and software technology. (In the 'regular' areas of technology, I am only
'expert' in the sense of availing myself of tools, such as those that are
produced by Peter Norton, that allow one to fix the most complicated of
computer problems by following the instructions on the screen, and hitting
the  button.)
  I had the good fortune to learn about computers from a gentleman who
helped design the Adam motherboards, and to learn about how computers
and softwear 'think' by working with retarded and otherwise disabled
children for many years.
  Thus I realize the flaw in the widespread notion that certain computers
or programs are 'intuitive.' No...they are fucking retarded, OK?

  Aside from neural networks, and other forms of artificial intelligence,
computers and programs are only 'intuitive' in a situational-specific
way. A database program designed to help you balance your books is quite
simply programmed to anticipate such things as your desire to use integers
and decimals, etc. It is not 'intuitive' if you try to use it to program
your breakfast schedule. Neither is a database program designed to help
you program your breakfast schedule likely to be 'intuitive' as to whether
you might want to eat 1.3 eggs, as opposed to offering you a window which
allows you to choose between poached, fried or scrambled.

  To confuse the issue of what I am getting at, here, I would like to
point out that, although I am 'learned' in the C-Programming Language,
having studied it in various systems of higher education, I can't write
a single fucking line of code...
  Offer me a million dollars to properly write and compile the standard
'hello.c' program, and a week of work will result in my coming up, best
case scenario, a program which echo's, "Nice try, ShitForBrains."
  et, give me a backup tape-drive which is 'Supported' by SCO Unix,
but which doesn't actually work, for myself or for anyone else on the
face of the earth, and I can go through a thousand lines of source code
to find and fix the problem (three years ahead of the SCO engineers who
are 'talking to' Colorado Systems engineers, who will 'fix' the problem
exactly one week before the model becomes obsolete).

  Another example which doesn't really connect to any of the other things
I am talking about here (unless you already know what I am talking about,
which *I* don't), is the fact that I found a lot of the early password
programs to be easily breakable merely by noting how long it took the
program to return results after checking various values input.
  Similarly, I couldn't help but notice that accessing certain 'hacking'
websites on the InterNet results in a 'loading-time' which is way out of
sync with the amount of data, etc., being transferred. (Or that some of
these websites seem to result in a lot of hard drive activity which can
only be noticed by paying attention to the 'sound' of the hard drive,
since the hard drive light doesn't seem to go on, at all. Hhmmm...)

  My point?
  Read the original Sun Operating System Manuals...the Writing Device
Drivers manuals, in particular.
  ou will be left with the distinct impression that AbsoluteSecurity (TM)
is impossible! et, if you peruse later versions of the manuals, right up
to the current versions, you might notice that they no longer leave the
reader with the impression that AbsoluteSecurity (TM) is VaporWare.
  What has changed? Nothing...

  While resurrecting my Opus SparCardII after years of disuse, I found
that the little-bitty BatteryGremlins that reside within the CPU chips
had passed away from old-age.
  Thus I had to become an EEPROM expert over the next few days, in order
to learn how to tell it to do things like remember its own name, etc.
("What's your name, Bob? Starts with a 'B' and ends with a 'B'...you've
 got five seconds, Bob.")

  I'm dense/stupid/ignorant/clueless, added to which, I am usually loaded
while working on my computers late at night.
  Thus, I make a lot of mistakes. And I find out some of the most amazing
fucking things!
(e.g. In the DOS 3.3 days, before most of you were born, my Drunken 
 Fingers (TM) discovered that 'dir *.' would list directories and files 
 without an extension, although this didn't seem to be documented
 anywhere. I was pretty impressed with myself until I discovered that
 if my Drunken Fingers accidentally added a certain other keystroke to
 this combination, then something happened which did irreplaceable
 damage to a certain version of BIOS. I was once again impressed with
 myself upon finding that, although most programs would no longer run
 on the computer, database programs 'smoked' at about ten times the
 speed they usually ran. Why? Don't know...don't care.)

  What I'm really-really getting at, here, is this:
  Except e become as a little, drunken child...

  The reason that it is the teens and pre-teens that are hacking into
'secure' government and corporate computers is that they can't afford
to take the $ 5,000.00 computer classes/seminars that 'teach' them what
can, and cannot, be done.
  The reason I can roam at will through Canadian Government 'secure'
computer systems is that I am a sorry, fucking asshole, whose Drunken
Fingers know more about computers than my Drunken Mind ever will.
  The reason that Echelon can monitor and analyze all of the electronic
communications on the face of the earth, is that they know that the
nature of BIOS, EEPROM, Device-Drivers, etc., is such that, given even
the slightest amount of influence over standards and procedures in the
design and implementation of these things, they will contain series
of MasterKeys which can open a variety of BackDoors, no matter how
complex and well-designed the features of hardware and software that
overlay the basic computer technology and processes.
  The reason that I can use RCMP printers to do my bidding on thier
computer systems is that I don't make them do things that they are
not supposed to do, thereby creating SoreThumbs that stick out where
they shouldn't and exhibit signs of dysfunctional pain and suffering
when new programs or updates are added to the mix, but rather, I ask
them to do things that they are *supposed* to do, but haven't been
asked in the manner which I ask them, because those who designed them
only wanted them to do silly, useless tasks, like print words on a sheet
of paper.


Read This Again:
  Professer Stephen Grossman, chief cognitator at Boston University's
Department of Cognitive and Neural Systems, has created Thing1 and
Thing2--robots which can adapt to their environment by mastering
approach and avoidance behavior.
  He states, "The networks we're building here learn from examples and
exhibit some capability for generalization beyond the training data 
we've put into them."

  Brian Fitzgerald, in the Summer 1998 issue of Bostonia, points out that
the "neural networks enable the robots to teach themselves...predict
impending impacts, and use the same patterns to suppress movements that
would cause collisions."


Now Think About This:
  If I can find ways to make/enable computer hardware and software 
perform a wide variety of tasks that was not envisioned by those who
designed them, honestly being merely a semi-computer-literate dweeb
without the sense Dog gave a Goose, then what is to prevent people
who are learned and competent in computer technology and processes
from adapting the capability and functions of computer technology
and processes to ends which go far beyond the simplistic techniques
which they have been programmed/trained to apply to the tasks they
undertake?
  More importantly, if, with my own limited knowledge and computer
literacy/competency, I can find ways to route around the damage caused
by the secrecy/censorship of information that others are using to cause
me problems in my life, then what are the possibilities for those who
are involved in the design and implementation of computer technologies
and processes, to design and develop hardware and software that can
be modified/circumvented/paralyzed/compromised if their use becomes
usurped by the Controllers in order to provide Power&Control to an
Elite Segment of Society?


  There is currently a thread on the CypherPunks Mailing List which is
discussing the Perjury of RecognizedAuthority being treated differently
than that of Jane and Joe Citizen.
  Perusing Perry Mezger's post, I was impressed with the thoughtfulness
and insight that he displayed on the issue, and the quality of questions
he raised in regard to ethics and public attitudes in this area.
  Nonetheless, if you ask Tim C. May to check the archives, I think he
will find that I previously dealt with this issue in a simple and a
succinct manner.
  I stated, quite simply, that what I found most disturbing was not that
our elected political representatives and a wide variety of government
employees, public, private and corporate figures were in the habit of
lying, but that they no longer even bothered to tell GoodLies (TM).

  The bottom line is that it doesn't matter whether you've wrecked daddy's
car, or you are cheating on your spouse, the cost of telling the Truth
grows faster than the interest you owe on a loan from a guy named 'Big
Al.'
  The longer that the citizenry avoids confronting THE LIE, in order to
prevent rocking the boat, since "Things aren't really that bad." (ET!),
then the larger the weight of the BadLies will become, and the more they
will become an 'accepted' part of our everyday reality.
  The longer that those involved in computer design and implementation
deliver products which reflect only what they are asked to produce to
meet certain, narrow goals, then the greater will become the end-user's
reliance on, and vulnerability to, those who have the money and the
power to set standards and influence the directions and goals of future
computer use.


  In effect, what I am saying, is that if those involved in the design
and the implementation of computer hardware and software technology, 
standards and processes are not able to "learn from examples and exhibit 
some capability for generalization beyond the training data...put into 
them," as well as to "predict impending impacts, and use the same 
patterns to suppress movements that would cause collisions," then
they might as well pledge allegience to Thing1 and Thing2, because
they will do whatever the GreatBeast programs them to do, and it will
be little comfort to those crushed underfoot to know that those who
fed the GreatBeast at the expense of WeThePeople were "just following
orders."
  "They wanted to come for the Jews, and I wasn't a Jew, so I wrote the
program..."

  Surprisingly, most of the people I know who are most concerned about
designing hardware and software that resembles a two-sided coin which
can be turned against its Masters, if they become rabid and frothing at
the mouth, work for high-security government and corporate agencies
who go to great lengths to implement 'access enhancement features' in
their products.
  The common consensus among them seems to be that the average designer
and programmer can implement sane and effective 'enhancements' to their
products with very little effort, simply by being consious of the myriad
of opportunities, that are constantly present, to 'add' certain features
which lend themselves to include user-friendly control of the product.
  As well, they recognize that those who actually *do* the programming
are often much more aware of what design features they can include that
will allow other programmers to produce add-ons or tie-ins which will
allow the end-user to be a participant in their software's functionality,
as opposed to riding a one-way train whose ultimate destination will be
Government and Corporate Auschwitz.

  I currently have what might be considered Unauthorized Access to a
variety of computer systems, which could theoretically result in my
being subject to a few million years in prison.
  However, thanks to the wisdom and foresight of a few Computer Angels
who design and program high-security government and corporate systems,
I was able to gain access by doing nothing more than simply give myself
the same 'network privileges' as held by those who chose to make my
computer a part of their network, in order to read my files and put in
place programs of their choosing.
{Ownership of my computer bestows upon me the right to set my privileges
 to whatever level I desire, and if that allows me the same privileges
 throughout a computer network I was linked to with the full consent
 of those in charge of it, then I can hardly be faulted for assuming
 that I have authorization to use the resources and information that is
 available on 'our' network.}

  The bottom line, as far as I am concerned, is that the InterNet, by
definition, is an InterActive Medium.
  Those who choose to participate in the InterActivity of the Medium
must be prepared to encounter individuals who wish to exercise their
right to participate in the exchange of resources and information, as
opposed to being a passive recipient of whatever the other party, in
their egoistical imaginings of superior position and authority, wish
to bestow upon them.
  Anyone who wishes to join their computer to mine in order to check for
dirt under my fingernails had best wash the shit off of their dick before
they do so...

  It is understandable that those who design computer hardware and
software would take pains to provide their employers with a product
which empowers them.
  However, if they ignore, or pass upon, available opportunities to
empower the end-users, clients and customers of their employers, then
the public becomes, not *beneficiaries* of the designers efforts, but
*victims* of their efforts.

The rEvolution is NOW!




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: thanford5@sprynet.com
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 07:54:14 -0700 (PDT)
To: tfdc43nnx27@generalnets.com
Subject: Weekly Checks...
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



If you would like to have checks of $1,000 and up sent to you 
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If you can get the 800 number out there, as I am doing, then YOU WILL
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You have nothing to lose by calling to get more information.

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Call one of the 24hr TESTIMONIAL lines at 888-703-5389, 888-446-6949, 888-446-6951
or 888-731-3457 (all toll free). 

Click here for removal: http://www.remove-list.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: juagarknight@msn.com
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 14:24:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Truth will make us free!
Message-ID: <199807222123.OAA10856@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


We are an American social activist group called Las Americas, and 
we need your help. It is time to end the lies that everyone 
publishes about the Chiapas situation. We have to stop the war 
now!

We are tired of not being believed: the truth needs your help. 
The truth has to be told. Our main purpose is to show what is 
really going on in Chiapas. We want the world to know how 
neglected the people in Chiapas are.

In order for us to accomplish this mission, we need to provide 
tangible proof of all the events. We need pictures, sounds and 
video testimonies. 
We all have some kind of photographic equipment we don't use 
anymore. Right now, send us any type of new or old recording 
material: 
* Cameras
* Videos
* Tapes
* Cassettes
* Film
* Typewriters
* All kinds of recorders

All of these materials will be distributed to the indigenous 
communities so that they will be able to provide proof of their 
living conditions. The collected information will make up a huge 
and raw testimonial, which will convince even the skeptics that 
the war in Chiapas must end.
We are tired of lies being said about Chiapas. 
We need your support for this effort.
Take your chances, don't waste this great opportunity to 
participate and make a difference. 
Send the materials to:

LAS AMERICAS
Attn. President Ronald Granados
12501 East Imperial Highway 
Norwalk, CA 90650

You may also remit your suggestions and comments to our 
president.
We thank you in advance for your generous contribution and please 
forward this e-mail to as many people as you can.

P.S. If you are planning on making a personal visit, please find 
information enclose and don't forget to send us your 
testimonies!!

http://www.adventours.com
http://www.derechos.org
http://www.globalexchange.org
http://www.NONVIOLENCE.ORG

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: CTIA Daily News 
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 12:53:55 -0700 (PDT)
To: CTIA Daily News 
Subject: CTIA Daily News from WOW-COM - July 22, 1998
Message-ID: <199807221801.NAA05529@mailstrom.revnet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




==========================================
Welcome to today's edition of the CTIA Daily
News
from WOW-COM.  Please click on the icon /
attachment
for the most important news in wireless
communications today.

A new multi-billion dollar industry is here!

Be at CTIA's WIRELESS I.T. '98
where personal computing and communications
converge!

Don't Miss Your Chance -- October 12-14,
1998
Bally's Las Vegas, Las Vegas, NV

Call 202-785-0081 for more information.
===========================================

 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC 
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 13:26:20 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Robot Tears - SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS!!!
Message-ID: <009C98FD.02B18AC0.3@west.cscwc.pima.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Robot Tears - SPACE ALIENS HIDE M DRUGS!!!
___________________________________________

  If you XOR digital copies of Brave New World, 1984, Terminator and
Terminator 2, They Live, Mein Kamf and One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest,
then you end up with copies of Part V, Part VI and Part VII of 'The
True Story Of The InterNet':
Part V - Tears Of A Robot
Part VI - The Day The Screen Came Alive
Part VII - Don't Crush That End-User, Hand Me The Pliars


  I have always been much more comfortable transmorgifying the effluvia
excreted from my GreyMatter into ScienceLess Fiction than A Factual
Treatise On A WorldWide Conspiracy To Promote The Belief In The Existence
Of A WorldWide Conspiracy.
  As Trooper said, "We're here for a good time, not a long time, so have
a good time, the sun doesn't shine every day."

  The reason that the general public is absolutely terrified of being
confronted with the Truth (TM) and Reality (TM) is that they know that
it is a Horrifying Beast capable of ripping their Perceived World View
to shreds and destroying any hope they might have of attaining peace
of mind and tranquillity of soul in this lifetime.
  What the average person doesn't realize, however, is that when you make
the supreme effort to face the Truth, whatever it may be, you will find
yourself laughing like a fucking banshee.
  our Body, Mind and Soul *will* be subjected to a violent, excruciating
pain beyond human endurance, but your Spirit will laugh its ass off...


  When I first read about the InterNet being created by the military, in
order for scientists, researchers, et al, to be able to freely exchange
information in a secure environment, I recognized that they were doing
so with the goal of being able to totally access the complete spectrum
of educational and scientific progress and development.
  I took it as a given that their purpose in providing a communal forum
for exchange of information was to have complete access to, and control
over, that information.
  To me, this is as plain as night and day. I think it is ludicrous for
supposedly intelligent individuals to have failed to recognized this fact
until the presence of Echelon became public. Well, to be more precise,
until Official Government Recognition of the reality of Echelon's wide-
ranging presence became public.

  Of course, I had the advantage of having had the opportunity to become
acquainted with the military's attitude toward, and plans for, the public
and its individual citizens by finding myself at the forefront of their
experimentation in monitoring and controlling the minds of the citizenry,
as well as directing their thoughts, beliefs and attitudes according to
their own desires and goals.
  My original insight into this arena of life came from a perspective of
watching and listening, from the ceiling, the medical and scientific
researchers who were below me, casually engaged in manipulating and
modifying the physical tool which they seemed to believe held the secret
to control of my mind.
  I gained additional insight into the aims of the Controllers by making
a point of developing self-hypnosis tapes which I used to override the
subconsious suggestions of Dr. Fogel, one of Dr. Hoffer's associates,
before submitting to his hypnosis 'treatments.'

  If anyone finds some of the things I say a bit odd, then think about
how 'odd' they would have sounded twenty-or-so years ago.
  I have recently read much of the InterNet literature on CIA and military
mind-control experiments, etc., and found it quite humorous the lengths
to which those providing information went to document and verify each and
every instance of what they were describing, and the claims that they were
making, yet still maintaining a subtle undercurrent of "No! Really! I
wouldn't shit you! This stuff is *true*, I tell you! TRUE!!!"
  I find it equally humorous that so many of those who have obviously
spent a great deal of time, effort and resources to uncover/discover
the enormous extent of government research and experiments into mind-
control somehow manage to keep from screaming "BullShit!" at the claims
of those involved that they spend decades and millions of dollars in this
area without making any progress, whatsoever, and that they just happened
to have stopped all research and experimentation in mind-control the very
Tuesday before a Congressional (or whatever) investigation decided it was
not a good thing, and they shouldn't be doing it.
  And now, the IRS wants to be our best friend...

  When I taught for the Bartonian Metaphysical Society and the Institute
of Applied Metaphysics, an agency of the Canadian government that was
involved in PSI research at a university in Toronto used to plant
'spotters' in the classes, to target potential experimentation and
research subjects. According to one of the spotters who had difficulty
holding his liquor and his tongue at the same time, our Saskatoon group
was considered 'untouchable' as a result of a visit by 'friends' of the
organization that was funding their research.
  The evening after I read Robert Munroe's 'Journeys Out Of The Body,' I
astral travelled. After reading a book on Lucid Dreaming, I did lucid
dreaming. Upon reading Carlos Castenada's various works, I entered into
many of the same experiences he wrote about. When my mother's persona/
soul went AWOL during her bout with cancer, I bought a book on Shamanism
that told how to travel into the Underworld and retrieve a person's 
'animal/animus' and place it back in their body, and I did so.
   This is my life...it is not a matter for belief/disbelief or debate.

  To me, my life and my capabilities are simply the way it is, and I don't
consider them particularly extraordinary. To me, what is extraordinary is
the fact that pedal-steel players can actually make wonderful music with
those instruments. I tried like hell, and all I could make was noise.

  My only real purpose in telling you all of this is to impress upon you
the fact that there is much more going on in the background of government,
life, society, science, etc., than what is readily apparent, not only to
the general public, but even to those who research secret government
activity and projects from the outside, as well as many who work on them
from the inside.
  Anyone the least bit familiar with the world of secret intelligence is
aware that it is composed of concentric circles-within-circles, with each
layer remaining mostly a mystery to the layers external to it. 
  The CIA's involvement in mind-control research was merely the second
inner layer, with the public/private research community being the outer
layer. As mind-boggling and incredulous as the details of the CIA's
involvement may seem, they are merely grunt-workers for inner layers of
agencies and organizations who expand and develop the techniques and
information that filters down into practical applications on both a
macrocosmic and microcosmic level.
  To believe that the most essential research and development in military
intelligence is being done by people that you can call or visit at the
local CIA office is naieve, at best.

  The CIA, according to my understanding of the military personnel who
were involved with the Saskatchewan Cabal of mind-research, are little
more than heavy-handed amateurs whose chief asset is their willingness
to get involved in projects which have the potential of blowing up in
their faces and requiring complex damage control.
  It is my impression that the psychiatric butchery epitomized by Canada's
Dr. Ewen Cameron is typical of operations that are delegated to the CIA,
since the military prefers to experiment on their own personell and
subjects with methods that are unlikely to destroy their minds, to no
apparent purpose.
  Although the mind-wiping electroshock techniques used by Dr. Cameron
were apparently used in my 'treatment,' it is my recollection that, rather
than being wheeled into a room with some amateurish, inane, tape-loop
used to 'reconstruct' my mind, there were a variety of psychological and
medical professionals who spent a great deal of time involved in activity
designed to restore/restructure what had previously existed, as well as
creating a variety of new mental paridigms which were designed to be able
to function in a fashion similar to the interlinkable modular structure
of the C-Programming Language.

  To tell the truth, although the research and experimentation that I was
subjected to was undoubtedly invasive and unethical, I could see it as
being beneficial to the evolutionary human equation if it was done in an
above-board manner, as opposed to being hidden in the private enclave of
secret agencies, to be used with the goal of outside control of the
minds and behavior of others, without their consent.

  Mind-control, as described in terms of the MKULTRA ET AL Projects, is
actually only a single arm of secret-government efforts to monitor and 
control the citizenry.
  The ultimate goal of the research and experiments in this arena of
human evolution is the combination of an interdisciplinary combination
of methods, processes and techniques which will enable a globalization
of control over humanity--affectionately known by wild-eyed conspiracy
theorists as the New World Order.

  If I can restrain myself, for a few hours, from breaking into screaming
fits of rage calling for the public execution of all members of the Royal
Canadian Mounted Police, forthwith, I might just share with you some of
the things that one learns when they read the file which was accidentally
attached to an email from Kent Crispin, which contains a download of the
complete hard drive of the top secret military facility at which he works.
{Hey! Really! Do you think I would just make that up?}




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED/EUREKA! 
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 10:16:03 -0700 (PDT)
To: All Eureka/Stuffed Subscribers: ;
Subject: Losing it on the web/Man wins $90,000 by getting breasts
Message-ID: <19980722153518.253.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Welcome to  today's  issue of Stuffed. To read it you should
click on the URL below.  If it is not made clickable by your
email program  you will need to  use your mouse to highlight
the line,  copy it and then paste it into your browser (then
press Return).

http://stuffed.net/98/7/22/

If you  have an email program that can display web pages you
will find today's front cover should have already been disp-
layed and can be clicked on to take you straight to Stuffed.

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ILovToHack@aol.com
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 13:43:52 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: INTELLIGENT VIRUS
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


******************************************************************************
**************************
******************************************************************************
**************************
THIS IS TO BRING OUT THE TRUTH AND INFORM THE PUBLIC ABOUT A POTINTAL THREAT
******************************************************************************
**************************
******************************************************************************
**************************


I was recently informed from sorces who choose to remain annomous about a viri
that uses macafe's update tool to detect when it is found then it modifys its
code and forms a new strain of the virus this pattern continues although it
has only been tested through a clone of macafees server to 100 mutations it
looks like it could be a big problem I will inform you of any more information
i learn about it 

but for now    "THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE" 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: mmttpx001@hotmail.com
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 12:56:43 -0700 (PDT)
To: You@aol.com
Subject: Look At This
Message-ID: <199807221950.AA02312@atina.ar>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




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The Mailing List that you are being mailed from was filtered against the Global Remove List at: http://remove-list.com
Remove-List is a free public service offering to help the general public get removed from bulk mailings lists and has not sent this message. If you want their help, please add your name to their list and you will not receive a bulk email from us or any other ethical bulk emailer






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Trei, Peter" 
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 15:19:14 -0700 (PDT)
To: "'cypherpunks@toad.com>
Subject: Thoughts on the demise of DES
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Well, I'm a happy camper. Single DES is dead as a
credible cipher. I feel *very* vindicated.

I called for the hit, RSA bankrolled it, and the
EFF pulled the trigger. DESChall and
Distributed.net did severe damage, but the Deep
Crack machine was the fatal blow.

While the possiblity of bruting DES has been
discussed at various times in and out of cpunks
for years (for example, see Adam Back's message
of 17 August 1995), my involvement started 22 July
1996, when I proposed a DES crack as a follow on
to the previous autumn's RC4-40 attack:

------------------------------

>Subject: Re: Borders *are* transparent
>Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 10:32:47 -6 
[...]
>Any one up for a distributed brute force attack on
>single DES? My back-of-the-envelope calculations
>and guesstimates put this on the hairy edge of
>doability (the critical factor is how many
>machines can be recruited - a non-trivial cash
>prize would help).

>Peter Trei
>trei@process.com
---------------------------

This got a flurry of responses, mostly positive,
including some in which Matt Blaze announced his
intention to build a hardware DES cracker.

-----------

Later that day, I had run some more numbers:

>Subject: Re: Brute Force DES 
>From: "Peter Trei"  
>Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 16:55:17 -6 
>[...]

>The fastest general purpose, freely available des
>implementation I'm aware of is libdes. by Eric
>Young. With this, I can do a set_key in 15.8 us,
>and an ecb_encrypt in 95 us/block. That adds up to
>about 9,000 keytests/sec (this is on a 90 MHz P5,
>running NT).

[...]
---------------

This looked much too slow, and discussion trailed
off. I was still interested, and grabbed some x386
assembler by Phil Karn, and worked on optimizing
it for the Pentium.

It worked well. A few months later:

http://infinity.nus.edu.sg/cypherpunks/dir.96.09.26-96.10.02/msg00567.html

>Subject: Can we kill single DES? 
>     From: "Peter Trei"  
>     Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 16:27:18 -6 

>[...]
>Unlike many cypherpunks, I actually write code
>(:-). I took Phil Karn's DES386 as a starting
>point, and modified it to run effiiciently on the
>Pentium. The code I've written will run 14 round
>DES (all that is required for a key test app) at
>254,000 crypts/sec on a 90 MHz Pentium.
>[...]

I had managed a better than 25x speedup. My
biggest innovation was a new method of producing
key schedules, which when applied for key search
purposes was a hundred times faster than the
canonical method [Perry doubled the speed by
suggesting the use of Gray codes.]

Later that month, I wrote to Jim Bidzos at RSA,
suggesting a DES challenge, using my prototype's
speed to demonstrate feasibility.  He was
interested, and the Symmetric Key Challenges were
born.

Soon other programmers (notably Svend Mikkelsen in
Dennmark) substantially improved on my speed - by
better optimization, and by clever shortcuts which
allowed earlier rejection of bad keys. A major
innovation was use of Eli Biham's 'bitslice'
algorithm, which tested large blocks of keys in
parallel. The speed of his initial implementation
was doubled by the work of Matthew Kwan in
Australia and Andrew Meggs, et. al. at
distributed.net.

By the end of the latest challenge, the fastest
software search engines had speeds (in clock
cycles per test) well over 100x as fast as my
original 10,000 cycle/key estimate.

Here's one more quote from the archives:

>From: "Peter Trei"  
>Date: Fri, 7 Jun 1996 12:55:24 -6 
[...]
>Prediction: By the millenium, we'll have made
>single DES look about as silly as 40 bit RC4 is
>today.

Written well before I started to think about a DES
crack, this, at least, has come true.

Peter Trei
ptrei@securitydynamics.com

Disclaimer: This has nothing to do with my work
at my employer.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Ric V. Carvalho" 
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 17:49:54 -0700 (PDT)
To: "'cypherpunks@toad.com>
Subject: PGP security?
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hello all,
A friend and I have been going around about the security of PGP.
I believe it to be unbreakable at this point in time.  I also recall
recently reading an article which stated that to break a PGP encrypted
message, using today's technology, unlimited computer core availability,
unlimited $$$, it would take the lifetime of 200 Suns.

What is the security of PGP?  How secure is it?  Are there backdoors that
you know of?
Does the govt. possess any kind of keys capable of opening a PGP encrypted
message?

Thanks in advance for your time and attention.
-Ric

Below is a message I received today concerning what my friend believes
about PGP.
Does anyone know anything to substantiate this claim?
*************************Message Separator********************************

Hi again ric,
PGP stands for "Pretty Good Privacy" (you know that).. but it called
"PRETTY GOOD" because it has several back doors for LEO and government
agencies... I have a masters degree in Electrical Engineering with a
minor in Software design... I think I know a little about computers
also.  While at WVU, we routinely broke PGP messages in Under 2 hours.
The government can open them with their key as fast as you can open them
with yours.  Just a fact... since it aint bullet proof, Camoflage your
messages.
-War






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: CF ASSOCIATES 
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 20:02:30 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: ...Are You In Need Of A Lifestyle Change...?
Message-ID: <419.435998.95964178freenow2000@mailexcite.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



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how to strategically invest it!

I invite you to call me for more details at 1-800-781-7046 Ext 4766.
This is a free 2 minute recording, so call right now!

Prosperous regards,

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This Is Not Multi Level Marketing/Serious Inquiries Only

This is a one-time mailing. When you visited one of our webpages you indicated 
that you would be interested in this information, if not please excuse 
the intrusion and simply delete this message. 
Thank you















From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 19:54:03 -0700 (PDT)
To: grassley 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Wednesday 7/22/98 8:39 PM

Softwar 
Charles R. Smith follows the money trail of U.S. crypto policy.
http://www.aci.net/kalliste/
7707 Whirlaway Dr. Midlothian, VA 23112
TOLL FREE 1 - 877 - 639 - 1608
softwar@us.net
http://www.us.net/softwar/

Smith

I will send by snail mail a copy of July 6, 1998 FOIA request
951102002 response from Herbert Richardson for

  	all investigative report authored at DOE in to my allegations
  	that NSA willfully and knowingly attempted to sabotage DOE/
	Sandia cryptographic projects.

plus enclosures.

I will phone later for your input on what I should do for further
action.  Other than appeal, of course.

Some at Sandia got into a crypto battle with NSA.
http://jya.com/whpfiles.htm

Let's all hope for settlement before matters get WORSE.

And matters are GETTING WORSE. http://www.jya.com/whp071598.htm

bill






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ILovToHack@aol.com
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 18:08:30 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: INTELLIGENT VIRUS
Message-ID: <8593e6bd.35b68ce8@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


In a message dated 7/22/98 8:40:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
nobody@remailer.ch writes:

<< On Wed, 22 Jul 1998 ILovToHack@aol.com wrote:
 
 ...
 > THIS IS TO BRING OUT THE TRUTH AND INFORM THE PUBLIC ABOUT A POTENTIAL
THREAT
 ...
 > I was recently informed from sources who choose to remain anonymous about a
viri
 > that uses McAfee's update tool to detect when it is found then it modifies
its
 > code and forms a new strain of the virus this pattern continues although it
 > has only been tested through a clone of McAfee's server to 100 mutations it
 > looks like it could be a big problem I will inform you of any more
information
 > i learn about it 
 
 <>


This is a new version of the viri it makes your computer WIN98 or 95 shutdown
every 5 minutes




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 18:36:01 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Netscape FOIA Docs
Message-ID: <199807230135.VAA16726@camel7.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


We offer the FOIA docs EPIC got on Netscape's
presentation for export of cryptographic products
which was cited in the July 20 Network World report
on NSA's long, strong arm:

   http://jya.com/nscp-foia.htm







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Robert A. Costner" 
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 19:13:34 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: INTELLIGENT VIRUS
In-Reply-To: <8593e6bd.35b68ce8@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980722221137.03a4f034@mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 09:07 PM 7/22/98 EDT, ILovToHack@aol.com wrote:
>This is a new version of the viri it makes your computer WIN98 or 95 shutdown
>every 5 minutes

Sounds more like an operating system design feature to me.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Ric V. Carvalho" 
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 21:23:37 -0700 (PDT)
To: "'cypherpunks@toad.com>
Subject: PGP 5.0 AND 5.5.5/ RSA/DSS SECURITY
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I have a question.
I have been using PGP since version 2.  I recently picked up the shareware
version of PGP 5.0/5.5.5
I have both.  I was wondering how secure DSS is?  Also, I was interested in
knowing if the RSA encrytion method used in 5.0 or 5.5.5 is in anyway
different from say version 2.6.3   Is it looser, more penetrable?  How
vulnerable are these versions compared to the older versions?

Thanks in advacne for your time and cosideration.

Life, Liberty, Property,

-Ric

--
Alpha Group Web Site
Http://www.mindspring.com/~warlord1
Encryption, use it or lose it!

-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.5.5 for non-commercial use 
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=Lykr
-----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----



"To see tomorrow's PC, look at today's Macintosh."
--Byte Magazine

 " There can be no compromise on basic principles.
There can be no compromise on moral issues. There can be no compromise
on matters of knowledge, of truth, of rational conviction." -Ayn Rand


"The government has no source of revenue, except the taxes paid by the
producers.  To free itself -for a while- from the limits set by reality,
the government initiates a credit con game on a scale which the private
manipulator could not dream of.  It borrows money from you today, which is
to be repaid with money it will borrow from you day after tomorrow, and so
on.  This is known as "deficit financing."  It is made possible by the fact
that the government cuts the connection between goods and money.  It issues
paper money, which is used as a claim check on actually existing goods-but
that money is not backed by any goods, it is not backed by gold, it is
backed by nothing.  It is a promissory note issued to you in exchange for
your goods, to be paid by you (in the form of taxes) out of your future
production." -Ayn Rand







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Max Inux 
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 22:37:45 -0700 (PDT)
To: Gustavo Henrique 
Subject: Re: pgp fingerprint
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980722235815.00b8e780@208.30.28.18>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I dont quite understand your question, but in PGP 6.0, they will use
pictures aswell.. It is all fakeable.. but verify all info somehow verify
key-id, fingerprint, picture etc.

-- Max Inux (MaxInux@bigfoot.com) UIN: 207447, http://khercs.chipware.net 
Strong Cryptography makes the world a safer place- PGP: 0x5CCFCA59
Or Kinky sex makes the world go round- Christie: Your in my sig too
^^ If Cryptography is outlawed,  only outlaws will have cryptography ^^

 

On Wed, 22 Jul 1998, Gustavo Henrique wrote:

> 
> I've just started studying pgp and crypo and I have a doubt that
> maybe you can answer.
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong:
> the fingerprint was invented so you can check with the owner of the
> public key if his key is correct. Since the fingerprint is something
> small, you can check it over the phone or some other way.
> 
> The question is: why people put their fingerprints on a mail signature ?
> Some one could have changed his public key and changed his message, so
> that fingerprint will match a wrong public key.
> Isn't it the same nonsense as putting the public key in an email message
> (without
> signing nor encrypting it) ?
> 
> 
> Thanks for the attention,
> 
> 	Gustavo Henrique
> 
> =============================================================
> Gustavo Henrique Maultasch de Oliveira        Sysadmin.com.br
>             
> gustavoh@sysadmin.com.br           http://www.sysadmin.com.br
> =============================================================
> 
> 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Gustavo Henrique 
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 19:59:17 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: pgp fingerprint
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980722235815.00b8e780@208.30.28.18>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I've just started studying pgp and crypo and I have a doubt that
maybe you can answer.

Correct me if I'm wrong:
the fingerprint was invented so you can check with the owner of the
public key if his key is correct. Since the fingerprint is something
small, you can check it over the phone or some other way.

The question is: why people put their fingerprints on a mail signature ?
Some one could have changed his public key and changed his message, so
that fingerprint will match a wrong public key.
Isn't it the same nonsense as putting the public key in an email message
(without
signing nor encrypting it) ?


Thanks for the attention,

	Gustavo Henrique

=============================================================
Gustavo Henrique Maultasch de Oliveira        Sysadmin.com.br
            
gustavoh@sysadmin.com.br           http://www.sysadmin.com.br
=============================================================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 17:20:52 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: INTELLIGENT VIRUS
Message-ID: <19980723004604.645.qmail@hades.rpini.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Wed, 22 Jul 1998 ILovToHack@aol.com wrote:

...
> THIS IS TO BRING OUT THE TRUTH AND INFORM THE PUBLIC ABOUT A POTINTAL THREAT
...
> I was recently informed from sorces who choose to remain annomous about a viri
> that uses macafe's update tool to detect when it is found then it modifys its
> code and forms a new strain of the virus this pattern continues although it
> has only been tested through a clone of macafees server to 100 mutations it
> looks like it could be a big problem I will inform you of any more information
> i learn about it 

Oh, this is that virus I heard about which introduces typos and makes
email incoherent! That's old news. AOL users were infected with that years
ago.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 01:16:06 -0700 (PDT)
To: "Ric V. Carvalho" 
Subject: Re: PGP security?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980723010758.00b9a920@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


The message from your friend is a purely fabricated troll;
don't worry about it.

At 06:41 PM 7/22/98 GMT, Ric V. Carvalho wrote:
>A friend and I have been going around about the security of PGP.
>I believe it to be unbreakable at this point in time.  I also recall
>recently reading an article which stated that to break a PGP encrypted
>message, using today's technology, unlimited computer core availability,
>unlimited $$$, it would take the lifetime of 200 Suns.

Is that 200 Sun Microsystems Computers, or 200 of those big yellow things? :-)

Some previous versions of PGP had some weaknesses.
PGP version 1 had the cool "Bass-O-Matic" algorithm, before
Phil learned cryptography; read his discussion of Snake Oil in the manuals.
I think some of the early versions had weaknesses in their random 
number generators used for session keys, but I may be mixing
that up with Netscape, which definitely used to have that problem.

One of the current concerns is that the popular version 2.6.2 et al
use the MD5 hash, which is starting to show some theoretical weaknesses,
though none of them are known to be exploitable against PGP,
but the newer versions prefer to use SHA-1 as a hash just in case.

There was also a serious problem which allowed an attacker to
create a public/private key pair with the same keyID as a target 
(much shorter key, so quick to create, and who checks key length?),
so the newer versions use a different method for creating keyIDs
that's hard to spoof.  Early versions also used shorter KeyIDs,
so it was possible to get a collision by brute force, so the keyIDs
were made longer.  Impersonating a KeyID makes it possible to fake
signatures, and also possible to trick PGP or the user into trusting the 
wrong key, which is always bad.

The secret key ring file has two current weaknesses,
which matter if somebody can access your file (so don't let that happen!)
One is that if you have wimpy passphrases, a dictionary attack can
crack the record containing your private key, at which point you lose -
so don't use a wimpy passphrase, AND do protect your secret keyring well.
Another, less serious is that the file contains the user name in plaintext - 
so if you're trying to hide your secret identity, someone reading the file 
will see that you not only have keys for Clark Kent, but also for Superman;
in some environments, this can be more dangerous than cracking the
passphrase, because the guys with rubber hoses can get your passphrase
once they know they want it.

				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC 
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 01:45:35 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: TR3 - SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS!!!
Message-ID: <009C9964.46C72D20.1@west.cscwc.pima.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Terminating Resistor III - SPACE ALIENS HIDE M DRUGS!!!
________________________________________________________


IMPORTANT NEWS FLASH!!!
_______________________
I HAVE JUST LEARNED, FROM A RELIABLE SOURCE, THAT SECRET GOVERNMENT
AGENCIES ENGAGE IN ACTIVITIES THAT ARE FORBIDDEN TO / ILLEGAL FOR
THE AVERAGE CITIZEN TO ENGAGE IN!

  OK, so it doesn't come as a major surprise to anyone.
  Nevertheless, our world-view tends to be limited to, and shaped by, the
information that we are 'allowed' to access. Even if we are aware of the
fact that the government is undoubtedly going full-steam ahead in areas
such as cloning research and merger of artificial intelligence with
artificial life forms, we don't give much thought to the implications
and possible consequences of exotic, secret research and experimentation,
because we don't have enough information about what is going on behind
closed government doors to make any judgements.
  The information that we *do* get about out-of-control government actions
and policies invariably comes after-the-fact, or at a time that we are
*told* is after-the-fact. 
("We stopped doing that years ago. Joe doesn't work here, anymore. We
got rid of the bad apples, and now it's just us GoodGuys left...")

  A friend of mine did computer work for an Arizona neurologist who put
electrodes and steel plates in the skulls of monkeys, rabbits, etc., in
order to do brain-mapping (one of the major areas of mind-control 
research), in order to study Parkinson's Disease.
  The neurologist was approached by a research foundation that was very
interested in giving him a grant to work with children, instead of with
animals. This has become an acceptable area of experimentation (a quick
study of those involved easily links them to a variety of intelligence
agencies). Their offer was refused as a result of the format and structure
of the proposal obviously being geared more toward providing information
and results that had more to do with learning methods to control aberrant
behavior than with benefitting the proposed child subjects.
  After his refusal, his current grant was canceled, and he was again
made the offer, which he accepted.

  Dr. Ewen Cameron, the Canadian MKULTRA mind-butcherer, was instrumental
in helping the CIA to see the benefit of taking an 'interdisciplinary'
approach to mind-control.
  Although Dr. Cameron's basic method was to combine a wide variety of 
medical, biological, psychiatric, anthropological, et al, methods using
his own limited knowledge, in your basic VoodooLeeches methodology, the
CIA and military intelligence agencies began consolidating the various
arenas of mind/human-conditioning research and experimentation by helping
to sychronize the research of a wide body of educational and research
professionals in divergent fields of expertise.
  As a result of directing the focus and evolution of the majority of
scientific and psychological research in North America through control
of the funding mechanisms and access to research publishing, the American
intelligence community has managed to merge the research community into
an integrated tool for delivering the information and results desired
by the Controllers for their own grand designs.

  John Lily, a respected cutting-edge researcher told the intelligence
community to "Fuck off!" when they approached him with an offer to fund
his research on the condition that it become secret/classified.
  Lily suddenly found most doors in the scientific community being slammed
in his face, not able to even getting a job sweeping-up after conferences
that he previously had been begged to attend. (In essence, he quickly
found that he couldn't even get elected ScientificDogCatcher.)
  Not to worry, there were researchers standing in line to take Lily's
pioneering mind-mapping research to new heights, using experimentation
techniques on human subjects that Lily had too much compassion and 
integrity to use on dolphins.

  The "Dont ask...don't tell..." military policy on homosexuality in the
armed services has long been an unspoken understanding in the research
community, where the players long ago learned that making an issue of
the ethics of the researchers down the hall throwing niggers off the
roof, to see it they really do have thick skulls, could have negative
reprecussions on their own position and funding.
  Many researchers find themselves doing what they consider to be needed
and pertinent research in their projects on their own time, after they
have satisfied the wants and needs of those funding their project.
  Of course, if you ask most researchers about the veracity of what I
have just claimed, you will meet with sincere denials, and perhaps even
genuine laughter. However, a relative of mine who is engaged in providing
seminars on effective philanthropic fund-raising makes no bones about the
fact that the success of his seminars revolves around teaching people to
sell their souls while remaining blissfully ignorant of the fact that
they are doing so.
("If murdering a thousand children in my research saves the life of a
 single child...")

  While I am not in any way suggesting that the majority of researchers
are NaziMonsters, having allowed themselves to be maneuvered into a
position where their research is driven by the goals of those funding it,
their research in 'turning on the gas' is irrevocably linked to research
by loosely connected entities who are being funded to research 'putting
them in the ovens.'
  Intelligence agencies' interdisciplinary approach to developing the
ability to monitor and control the minds, beliefs, attitudes, actions
and behavior of the citizenry (in the interests of National Security,
of course), has resulted in what has been openly known by many as the
New Manhattan Project. Just as the Nuclear/Atomic Manhattan Project
was an all-out, top priority effort engaging the premiere players in
a variety of scientific fields, the New Manhattan Project involves a
consolidation of research and activity spanning such diverse arenas
as mind-control, emotional-manipulation, behavioral conditioning,
citizen surveillance-monitoring-classification, and even encryption.

  The research and experiments in Artificial Intelligence and Human
Intelligence are intricately linked.
  Neural Network models and implementations are based on understanding
and imitating human "operant conditioning, the form of learning in which
animals and humans learn the effects of their actions," as Professor
Stephen Grossberg states.
  The Artificial Intelligence approach of Neural Networks is based on
the processing of symbolic information, as opposed to numerical data.
The Controllers have mastered the art of 1984'ish manipulation of the
public mind through media control and spin doctoring, now able to 
gather the citizens into an angry torch-carrying mob, chasing the 
U.S.ConstitutionMonster back to the castle to defend themselves against
the NewImprovedFourHorsemenOfTheApocalypse. (Any Congressman who is
caught dorking a teenage girl and cheating on his taxes has a fighting
chance of surviving if he can convince the electorate he is 'tough on
crime,' or whatever the current TenSecondSoundByteFadOfTheDay is.)
  The Controllers efforts to control access to information are centered
around their need to control the EmotionalSymbolism by which they have
learned to lead the public around by our noses.

  The grand Artificial Intelligence push to "develop principled theories
of brain and behavior and incorporating them into machines," as Brian
Fitzgerald writes in 'Bravo New World,' is really part-and-parcel of the
Controllers' designs to guide the future development of the InterNet into
a WorldWideStickyWeb wherein the Medium is capable of manipulating the 
user into the position of controlled stooge, rather than a participant,
by being able to monitor, log and analyze the user's basic operant
conditioning, via his or her responses, thus being able to provide the
user with only those options which will lead them in the direction that
is desired by the Controllers.
(An example is the feature of allowing the user to 'customize' the
 interfaces they are interacting through, according to their personal
 interests, with the AutoBot then serving up generous helpings of pointers
 and information beneficial to the provider, instead of a genuine cross-
 section of what is actually available on the InterNet.)
{Interest #1 - Anarchy: Today we are providing you with Newt Ginrich's
 essay, entitled "What Anarchy Means To Me."
 Interest #2 - SPACE ALIENS HIDE M DRUGS!!! Manuscripts: Click on the
 provided link to read Ms. Manners Politically Correct Revision of the
 manuscripts, which are rated Family Entertainment by CyberNanny.}

  The federal government proclaimed the 1990's the Decade of the Brain.
What they neglected to mention is that Military Intelligence has been
put in charge of monitoring, analyzing and shaping the Brain...
  CNS (Cognitive Neural Systems) research and development has become a
wholly owned subsiduary of the Air Force super laboratories, the Office
of Naval Research, DARPA (Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency),
the National Science Foundation, and the rest of the Usual Suspects.

  ou remember DARPA, don't you--those wonderful folks who gave us the
InterNet which routes all communications through military channels?
  ou remember the Office of Naval Research, don't you--those wonderful
folks who developed products and techniques for monitoring all of the
communications on the face of the earth?

  Fitzgerald notes, in 'Bostonia,' that "Graduates of CNS work in a 
plethora of fields, including psychology, neuroscience, telecommun-
ications, software engineering, economics, finance...medicine...and,
of course, robotics.
  Strip away the thin veneer of reliance on the research being conducted
by RespectableInstitutions and what you have is MKULTRA cross-breeding
with Artificial Intelligence to produce a DemonChild whose NeuralNetworks
are a fusion of GrayMatter and a DigitalThisIsWhereouAreGoingToGoToday
AutoBot.

  Julia Schickedanz, an MIT professor, remarks on the fact that the
professors involved in CNS research and development "specialize in
seemingly unrelated areas of research."
  Right...and the New World Order will result in the globalization of
"seemingly unrelated areas" of the world...

  Grossberg, speaking of the 'interdisciplinary' approach to the study
and implementation of Artificial Intelligence, says, "such an approach
is absolutely necessary to theoretically investigate fundamental issues
of mind and brain processes."
  I am certain that it is just a 'coincidence'   that
two champions of the 'interdisciplinary' approach to research in the
understanding of how the mind works and how it can be manipulated, Dr.
Ewen Cameron, Canadian mind-butcherer, and Professor Grossberg CyBorg
Creator, are each a Rockerfeller GoldenChild.

  Grossberg apparently spent decades and millions of dollars discovering
what he could have learned by forking over a sawbuck for a book by the
GrandaddyOfInterActiveMediaUnderstanding, Marshal McCluhan, 'The Medium
Is The Message,' as he informs us, belatedly, "What we perceive depends 
on how the nervous system processes messages."
  And those wonderful folks who provided us with an interactive medium
which they are capable of monitoring and controlling, are now involved
in a priority funding of research which will enable the medium to be
able to process/provide messages which are intricately linked with the
structure and functioning of our own nervous system.
  More importantly, the ability of the computer to monitor our habits and
the most infinitesimal details of our personal lives, when combined with
a neural network capable of learning and adapting to our thoughts, our
desires and our habits, essentially has the capacity to transform itself
into a Mythological Siren of the Deep, luring us to our destruction,
regardless of whether or not we know it to be an Illusion.
(If you think I am overstating my case, here, remind yourself how easy
 it is for Charlie CorporateMonger to get JoeSixPack to provide every
 detail of his life in order to get a SuperMarketValueCard that gets
 him a nickle off on a can of beans. If they had a record of your visits
 to and file accesses on the BigBreastedBlonde Web Site, they would have
 a Swedish Masseuse bring you the card to fill out, and end up with your]
 wallet, your car and your house, as well, and you'd be eating your beans
 out behind the dumpster.)

  In essence, Artificial Intelligence researchers are attempting to find
ways to incorporate the ability to understand and incorporate human 
behavior and response mechanisms into programmed machines/environments,
thus rendering them capable of fulfilling functions which humans normally
require decades of experience and application to acquire competence in.

  During my last entry into the U.S. through the Vancouver Customs port,
my sister was horrified to learn that the devices in each lane were 
visually and auditorily monitoring those who passed through. License
plates are auto-scanned and run through the computer to flag people of
interest to Border Authorities (and I suspect that visual recognition
technology of humans is also being used/tested).
  The vehicle in front of us contained your typical middle-class American
family, and was passed through with only perfunctory attention being
given to them, yet the Customs Officer thumped on the top and side of
their car before waving them to proceed, as if checking to make sure that
they didn't have a few hundred kilos of heroin stashed away.
  My sister was puzzled as to why he did that, whereupon I explained that
he was not interested in *their* reaction, but in *mine*, since I was next
in line, the computer had flagged me, and someone inside was undoubtedly
listening to see if I told her, "Are you sure you hid the dope?"

  Some of the Artificial Intelligence AutoBots of the future will no
doubt be MultiMedia HumanResponse LieDetectors.
  Rather than measuring your pulse, breathing rate and electrical
tension, they will measure variations in your Personally Categorized
Basic Neural Network Profile.
  Just as gun ownership can be denied today on the basis of a history
of mental problems or criminal activity, certain activities, rights,
or access to information, in the future, will be based on your meeting
guidelines/profiles as judged by your interactions with AutoBots that
are designed to analyze and categorize your mind and behavior.

  Grossberg maintains, "All conscious states are resonant states. 
And resonance can join cognition to emotion in a unified conscious 
experience." 
  The implication of this is that the Artificial Intelligence that is
being developed to work in parallel with the human brain and the elements
of human behavior will be capable of becoming a 'partner' in our thoughts,
emotions, and consciousness, and thus be an integral part of that which
influences the direction and processes of our mind, psyche and behavior.

  Take a moment to think about the full import of the technology which
will shape our future being shaped and directed almost wholly by Military
Intelligence agencies and their associates.
  Advertising psychology and MKULTRA mind-control research are barely
poor-cousins to the Cognitive Neural Systems technology that is being
prepared to not only monitor, analyze and categorize even the most
minute areas of our mind, emotions, psyche and behavioral patterns,
but also to have the capacity to adapt *their* behavior to our own
personal psychological structure and, as in the case of Thing1 and
Thing2, "predict" our "impending impacts" with the desires of the
Controllers, and direct us toward "avoidance behaviors" which will
"suppress movements that will cause collisions" with the goals and
designs of the Controllers.

  It can't be long before the Trilateral Commission is replaced by
the Trilateral CPU...




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: marketinfo@imarket.cc
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 05:06:11 -0700 (PDT)
To: friend@smtp.leading.net
Subject: Discover Your Family History - Rated "Cool Site of the Week"
Message-ID: <199807221748.NAA26766@smtp.leading.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Discover Your Family History - Rated "Cool Site of the Week"

                Come visit our website at,
Free
Search
(if the above link is busy please use...)
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Search

        Do you know WHO your ancestors are and WHAT they did?
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 08:15:21 -0700 (PDT)
To: sjmz@hplb.hpl.hp.com
Subject: allahu akbar crowd
Message-ID: <35B7527E.B9@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Thursday 7/23/98 9:06 AM

John Young

Nice to talk to you last night.

I am concerned too about what may happen. http://caq.com/cryptogate

So was Hans Buehler.  He phoned me from Zurich to discuss
his concerns several years ago.

Getting things settled is up to congress.  

Rep McKinney and Sen Grassley are the contact points.  Both got
copies of the Swiss Radio International tapes.

Buehler, later, on the phone seemed resigned to what may happen.

Nothing he can do about it.

But there is something congress can do about it.

GET IT SETTLED!

bill






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: lego@sbccom.com (Todd Bowers)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 07:59:57 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <19980723145638736.AAA266@oemcomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


cool ..... i am 13




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Skoitch@aol.com
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 09:22:16 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: W.A.Y.
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


WHY CANT I FIND ANY WHITE AMERICAN YOUTH ALBUMS ANYWHERE?   




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Woolley, Carol" 
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 12:35:18 -0700 (PDT)
To: "'cypherpunks@toad.com>
Subject: crypto on extranet questions
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


We are designing an extranet for our non-employees, customers, and partners
to work on program information.  All users will be authenticated by personal
digital certificates that we will issue from our Netscape Certificate
Server.

It is my understanding that users from Canada, Italy, and Norway must have a
certificate encrypted at 56 bit.  Are you aware of any other
restrictions/requirements?

The crypto law survey mentions use of Trusted 3rd parties for Italy and
Norway.  Are there commercial companies that act as Trusted 3rd parties?

look forward to hearing from you.

carol
carol.woolley@lmco.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: CTIA Daily News 
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 11:44:32 -0700 (PDT)
To: CTIA Daily News 
Subject: CTIA Daily News from WOW-COM - July 23, 1998
Message-ID: <199807231746.MAA01562@mailstrom.revnet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




==========================================
Welcome to today's edition of the CTIA Daily News
from WOW-COM.  Please click on the icon / attachment
for the most important news in wireless communications today.

A new multi-billion dollar industry is here! 
Be at CTIA's WIRELESS I.T. '98
where personal computing and communications converge!

Don't Miss Your Chance -- October 12-14, 1998
Bally's Las Vegas, Las Vegas, NV

For more information, visit http://www.wirelessit.com
===========================================
 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 12:11:15 -0700 (PDT)
To: jy@jya.com
Subject: encryption devices, radiation-hardened devices , Forth and an INTELLIGENT UPS
Message-ID: <35B789A8.CD9@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Thursday 7/23/98 12:16 PM

John Young

I am looking at http://www.jya.com/cr072298.txt

REASON we did the 8051 Forth at Sandia is that I was ORDERED by
department manager Kent Parsons to port Forth from the 8085
to the 8051.

Sandia built a radiation-hardened 8085 chip set.

However, the 8085 took up lots of room and did not have timers, serial
expansion, bit-addressable registers/memory, on-board UART, etc.

Parsons helped convince Sandia upper management to build the 8051 as
a rad-hard part.

The guys doing the 8051 testing of the Sandia rad-hard part were writing
SIMPLE machine language programs to test the part.

Like hooking an LED to a port, flashing the LED, to see when it quit
while being irradiated.

We pointed out that running Forth itself exercises much of the 8051.

In addition writing test code for the instructions and hardware not
directly exercised by Forth was easy, in comparison to other software
technologies.  Either in high-level Forth or Forth assembler.

I managed a contract for Jerry Boutelle, author of the Nautilus II
metacompiler, to write test code for Sandia's 8051 rad-hard part.

Then, of course, I wrote a SANDIA-APPROVED book about our port of 8085
FIG Forth to the 8051.

http://www.apcatalog.com/cgi-bin/AP?ISBN=0125475705&LOCATION=US&FORM=FORM2    

And we shared the source code and documentation with anyone interested
in learning what we did.  

http://jya.com/f86/whpf86.htm 
http://jya.com/whpfiles.htm

While writing this note, I am watching an 8051 Forth run the test code

: XX 2 BASE ! 0
  BEGIN DUP U. 1+ ?TERMINAL 
  UNTIL ;

to see how many 8051 machines still work.

Let's switch subject to A NEW INNOVATION in Uninterruptable Power
Supplies.

Yesterday I bought a CyberPower Power 98/250VA for all for $59.95! at
Best Buy. http://www.cyberpowersystems.com/

Previously I looked at CompUSA at a APC 250 which had a rebate making
the final cost $79.99.  But NO MICROCONTROLLER and, thus, no brains.

CyberPower has a MICROCONTROLLER in it.
http://www.cyberpowersystems.com/products.cfm

Here is what you get.

1  lead/acid battery
2  SERIAL PORT in the UPS
3  Three UPS sockets - one for a transformer
4  Three surge-protected sockets - one for a transformer  450 joule
5  3.5 diskette containing Win 3.xx/9x software
6  One 9 pin rs232 cable
7  One 6 foot rj11 cable
8  Two rj11 surge-protected sockets.

Here is the idea.

The UPS monitors the line voltage.  

When the line voltage fails, then the UPS switches to battery.

The UPS then sends a message to your PC over the rs232.

The CyberPower software then closes all open files then turns
off your PC.

I am only running our PC and 15 inch screen from the battery backed up
supply.  Modem and printer go to the surge-protected sockets.

I pulled out the plug to the CyberPower Power 98/250VA and 
it switched over to battery.

I noticed some lines across the screen.  I attribute the lines to dc/ac
conversion and voltage step-up.

UNFORTUNATELY, I am using com1 for our mouse and com2
for our external modem.

Therefore, I am not able to try the software yet.

Alternative I have to fix this problem are get a

1   PS2 mouse and free-up com1
2   get another serial card for about $20.

Green return receipt request card received today indicated that
http://www.jya.com/whp071598.htm was received on Friday July 17, 1998

Let's all hope this HORRIBLE matter gets settled soon so we can all move
on to OTHER constructive projects.

Later
bill






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: M Taylor 
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 10:34:30 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Pegasus email, internal DES encryption?
Message-ID: <3.0.5.16.19980723142953.295f0d66@mailserv.mta.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I've been sent this requst indirectly, and thought it best to forward it to
these lists, anonymously. I will forward any replies to the original sender.

-M Taylor

-------------------
Hi guys.

Sorry that this is a little off topic, but I figure that here is my best
chance to find this information, all other resources (save damned
reverse engineering) having been exhausted.

If you have used Pegasus mail before, you would know that it provides an
internal encryption function.  This is some form of DES, accourding to
their web site, and is presumably < 40 bits, as they quite happily allow
worldwide downloads of the binard from the US.  However, actual details
on which form of DES, and how they turn an input password into a key
were not supplied.

Now, my company decided that this encryption was just dandy for
security, and that everyone should use it for all encrypted mail.  This,
along with their idiocies about passwords used have me quite annoyed -
but that is *far* from the point of this.

What I am wanting to do, so as not to have to give up my nice, efficient
unix mailer, while retaining the abilitiy to work with others is
implement (or locate an implementation of) the Pegasus encryption, and
then do a little hacking and add that to my mailer.

The main problem is: no idea what the format of the DES used is.

So, if anyone could supply me with a simple answer to this question, I
would be very apreciative.

Thanks,
 xxxx





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: listmaster@extensis.com
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 14:57:18 -0700 (PDT)
To: undisclosed-recipients:;
Subject: Get the most of Quark 4.0 - with Extensis QX-Tools
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Announcing Extensis QX-Tools 4.0 for QuarkXPress 4.0 


Now, get the most out of QuarkXPress 4.0 - with Extensis QX-Tools 4.0  
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· Now available for Mac and Windows.
· NEW! Convert EPS, PostScript, and PDF files into editable Quark Objects.
· NEW! Create and apply styles to objects.
· Improved!  Re-scale groups of objects- without losing the option to undo.
· Plus, 5 other must-have tools that get the most out of QuarkXPress 4.0


On July 10, 1998 QX-Tools 4.0 Won "Best of Show" at MacWorld.

Here's what they've been talking about....

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Spend your time designing, not learning new software.

With NEW QX-VectorEdit, convert any PostScript file into an editable 
Quark object. Word tables, Excel charts, Illustrator, FreeHand, and 
PDF files now become Quark objects.  Edit them, correct them, trap 
them or fix their colors - right in QuarkXPress. Once edited, assign 
the object to a layer with QX-Layers. Yes, layers ARE possible in 
QuarkXPress.  Create, show, hide, reorder and assign any object to 
any layer in your document.

Improved QX-Scaler lets you size and resize groups of objects - with 
precision- without ever losing the option to undo. Once applied, you 
can change any of the object attributes with NEW QX-ItemStyles.  
Create and apply item styles to OBJECTS- using over 50 different 
attributes.  Now, quickly navigate through your documents with 
QX-Viewer, a full-color, multi-spread preview. Then, apply the same 
QX-ItemStyle to objects throughout your document for speed and 
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With three other useful tools-QX-FineTune (tweak characters and 
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Now, make QuarkXPress 4.0 work the way you REALLY want - with 
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To ORDER, download a free demo, or for more information, please visit: 
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Or call Extensis at (800) 796-9798 or (503) 274-2020.

Extensis QX-Tools 4.0 is available for both Mac and Windows.
Extensis QX-Tools 4.0 is compatible with QuarkXpress (r) 4.03.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
PS. We have made every effort to ensure this message is being sent 
only to people who have expressed interest in Extensis products.  
If we have sent this to you in error, please accept our apologies 
and reply with REMOVE in the subject line for automatic exclusion 
from future communications.  If you know someone who would like to 
be on our mailing list have them send an email to 
listmaster@extensis.com with ADD in the subject line and their 
email address in the body.

P.P.S. This message is intended for North American customers.  
If you are located outside of North America and have received this 
message, please visit  www.extensis.com/purchase/ to find the nearest 
local distributor in your country.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ant6menace@aol.com
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 12:52:28 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Pipe bombs r better
Message-ID: <3d259bf6.35b79455@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


they rule!




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 17:24:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Grand Opening Computer Sale
Message-ID: <989.283923.689449 ODL@odlink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


We apologize if this electronic mail was an inconvenience, if you 
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If you would like to be emailed monthly on special closeout items 
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If you're a geek like me and want weekly updates send your email 
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Yamaha 3D soundcard
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Yamaha 3D soundcard
LOTUS SMARTSUITE SOFTWARE ($149 value)
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phone (972) 680-1700
fax   (972) 680-1698

 
 
 
 
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: InstallShield International Sales 
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 15:54:36 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: InstallShield Important Download Information
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hello,

Thank you for visiting the InstallShield Website.

We would like to let you know that you can contact us for 
information you may require about our company, our
products or our websites.

We also have an international network of resellers and distributors 
that maintain stock and can provide the software
to you quickly.  They offer the convenience of 
acquiring the product in local currency and support in 
your local language.  

In Czech Republic you can obtain products from the following company:

Unicorn Distribution
Rohacova 83
Praha, 3   130 00
Czech Republic

Phone: +420 (2) 697 2202
Fax: +420 (2) 697 11 95
Email: jaros@unicorn.cz


If you find that you are not happy with our resellers, please
hit REPLY and let us know immediately.

We are here to assist you in any way that we can to get the 
most from our products, our company, our partners and our website. 
Any comments, questions or concerns you may have are more 
than welcome. Just let us know if there is anything we can do for you.

Once again, thank you for visiting the InstallShield Website.

The password for the InstallShield5.1 evaluation is "AlbertCamus"

Regards,

International Sales Department
intl-sales@installshield.com
+1-(847) 517-8191 voice
+1-(847) 240-9138 fax







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC 
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 18:52:13 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: THEY - SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS!!!
Message-ID: <009C99F3.93CF4780.32@west.cscwc.pima.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Where Do THE (TM) Want our Mind To Go Today? - SAHMD!!!
_________________________________________________________

"ou're not really an anarchist if you don't have your Anarchist Union
 dues paid up-to-date."
~Anna R. Christ, U.S. Government Department of Anarchy Czar


  Even those who dismiss, as ridiculous, the conspiracist theory that the
entire world is controlled by a small, Secret Cabal of individuals, with
me at its head, recognize that over the course of history, the media
began encroaching on the traditional role of religion and community as
the source of beliefs about the world around them, as well as increasingly
influencing opinions and attitudes, and that the news media was originally
controlled by a very small enclave of individuals with powerful financial
and political connections.
  Thus, the front-page newspaper story about the completion of this or
that railway was more likely to be accompanied by a picture of a Railway
Czar chomping on a fat cigar as he drove the last spike, rather than a
picture of 30,000 Dead Chincs, since the LittleellerFellers didn't get
a lot of dinner invitations to the publisher's estate.

  Far from being a Secret Conspiracy, the control of the newpaper media
by a few individuals was a well-established Open Conspiracy, regarded
as SimplyTheWayThingsAre in an era when the money, power and connections 
of the OldBoyNetwork trumped poverty, insignificance and a cousin named
Louie who could get you a good deal on a pair of used shoes.
  Regardless of the fact that the public knew that the news was a fixed
game, even if there was a 'competing' newsrag from a different member
of the RichAndPowerfulOldBoysNetwork, it was the only game in town, and
those in control of the news that got reported were the ones who named
the game and framed whatever debate took place.
  The newspaper publishers of yesteryear were, like todays car salesmen,
masters of manipulating their customers into choosing between the 'models'
of news/opinion/reality that *they* were offering. Even today, for all
of the lip-service paid to 'competition' in the mainstream media, I doubt
that there was a single person in America who bought copies of *all* the
major mainstream newspapers in order to find the one with the headline,
"Freedom Fighter Timothy McVeigh Takes A Bite Out Of Government Crime."

  In 1937, by which time  America had more radios than indoor toilets, 
the Rockerfeller Foundation started funding early mind-control research
into the social effects of new forms of mass media, such as radio, and
their potential for effecting social control of the masses.
  The main headquarters for the research, which was carried out by 
several universities, was at the Office of Radio Research, at Princeton.
It was headed by Paul Lazersfeld, an influential figure in a Marxist
ThinkTank, the Institute for Social Research (I.S.R.), commonly known
as the Frankfurt School.

  Interestingly, the goals of the Bolshevik Intelligentsi of I.S.R.--to
undermine the Judeo-Christian legacy of Western Civilization through an
"abolution of culture," and to determine new cultural forms which would
increase the alienization of the population--were very similar in concept
to the techniques that Canadian mind-butcherer, Dr. Ewen Cameron, would
pioneer decades later in the field of psychiatry--creating 'Differential
Amnesia' through electroshock mind-wiping, and recreating persona/
personality through the use of 'Psychic Driving'--with the main difference
seeming to be that the Radio Project's Lazersfeld didn't have access to
the technology to pump thousands of volts through the brains of the 
masses, so had to settle for giving them extended treatments with low-
power radio waves, as well as using repetitive formatting instead of
Dr. Cameron's "I am a good person who is going to assassinate the Prime
Minister" tape-loops.
  At the time, Communism was Semi-Fashionable, not yet having been 
magically transformed, overnight, into the GreatEvil, and among the
entities taking an interest in using the Comintern created thinktank
to learn how to use Bolshevik techniques to put the masses in their
back pocket were, besides the Rockerfeller Foundation, the Columbian
Broadcasting System, several American intelligence services, and the 
International Labour Organization.
  As Michael J. Minnicino notes, in 'The New Dark Age,' "Despite the 
official gloss, the activities of the Radio Project make it clear that
its purpose was to test empirically the (I.S.P.) Adorno-Benjamin thesis
that the net effect of the mass media could be to atomize and increase
lability--what people would later call "brainwashing."

[EditWhore's Note: If you are incapable of making the connection between
TV/Advertising and Hypnosis, because the programs and ads don't begin 
with, "ou are growing veerrryyy sleepy," or between TV/Advertising and
Brainwashing, because a BigRat doesn't jump out of the TV and eat your
face, then just try to equate TV/Advertising with your mother's attempts
to convince you that broccoli tastes good, or the teacher who tried to
trick you into thinking that Math was more fun than looking out the
window and watching the dogs fucking in the schoolyard.]

  Frank Stanton, an industrial psychology Ph.D., later to become the
President of the CBS News Division, President of CBS, and Chairman of
the Board of the RAND Corporation, was the Radio Project's research
director.
  Herta Herzog would later use the propaganda skills she developed as
a Radio Project researcher to become the first director of research
for Voice of America.
  The course of the whole developing radio industry would shortly be
affected in a major way by the Rockerfeller/Intelligence/Broadcaster's
Radio Project research into the use of the radio medium as a tool for
Social/Mind Control.

  In a 1939 Journal of Applied Psychology quarterly edition, the Radio
Project published their conclusion that Americans had become "radio
minded" (think about that phrase...), and that "their listening had
become so fragmented that repetition of format was the key to popularity,"
as Minnicino points out. "The play list determined the 'hits'...and 
repetition could make any form of music or any performer...a 'star.'"
("ou got your dead skunk in the middle of the road, dead skunk in the
 middle of the road...")


ou Want Regular Vanilla, Or Vanilla Regular?
[WAS - Beyond The Valley Of The Mountain Of The Planet Of The Apes /
 Parts 1 Through 2,987,746,376,802,413]:

"Not only are hit songs, stars, and soap operas cyclically recurrent and 
rigidly invariable types, but the specific content of the entertainment
itself is derived from them and only appears to change. The details are
interchangeable."
~Theodor Adorno, Chief of the Radio Project's Music Section, and an
 instrumental, decades-long member of the Communist Institute For Social
 Research, to which we owe a debt of gratitude for ensuring that audio
 pictures of Chairman Rockerfeller would dominate our audio landscape,
 and that quotations from the BigBankBook of Chairman Rockerfeller would
 fall on our ears, day and night.

[EditWhore's Note: Today, of course, Corporations are getting in on
 the act by turning arts and sports events into an advertising medium
 in their own right (e.g. The Nike Bolshoi Ballet Company, and the
 Ravage Realty Desert Golf Classic), not to mention Chairman Pepsi
 purchasing the rights to the high-school Proletariat from their 
 bourgeois SchoolMasters.]


Shut The Fuck Up And Give Me our Gut-Feeling About This Program:

  Next time that you're having a highly-intellectual discussion (drinking
cafe-latte with your little pinkie raised), about the philosophical and
conceptual themes of a given program, think about "Little Annie" aka
the Stanton-Lazersfeld Pogrom ( <--meaninful typo ) Analyzer.
  It was designed to allow test-audience members to register the intensity
of their likes-dislikes on a moment-to-moment basis during a program. This
allowed the operators to determine which situations or characters produced
a momentary, positive feeling state.
  Michael Minnicino notes that "Little Annie transformed radio, film,
and ultimately television programming." He adds that Little Annie, in
updated formats, is still what drives mainstream programming today.

[Note From T. Arthur: Basically, Little Annie is the human equivalent
 of the Pavlovian drool-cup, measuring the flow of body juices when
 the DoggieFoodLight goes on, or you watch an ad for edible panties. 
 The VoicesInsideMyHead that claim, "Everything since the BigBang has 
 been plagarism," when translated from Analog Wave to Digital Format, 
 say, "The only movie/program that really exists is 'The ogi Berra 
 Story'...everything else is DejaVuReRunsAllOverAgain.]



Our Story So Far:
  OK, so we got your small Non-Secret Cabal of NewsRag Czars going about
their business of exercising their InGodWeTrust-Given Right to decide 
what people with less money should know and think. 
  And then we got your Radio Media Medium starting to cut-in on the 
NewsRag Czar's RealityCreationRacket, as a result of there being more 
of them than indoor toilets, so as how people now get their RealityInput
even when they ain't on the Crapper, making room for what they is reading
by engaging in ExcessRealityOutput (A RetroTech version of GarbageIn-
GarbageOut), and then wiping their OutputDevice with their InputDevice.
  And then we got your basic RichGuyFoundation using TaxDeductibleDollars
to hire your basic GodLessCommies to figure out how the RichGuys can use 
the rEvolutionary New Commi-Tel Bolshevik Marketing System to get the
Radio Proletariat to pony-up $ 19.95 (plus shipping and handling) for
the SilverPlatter upon which their "new cultural forms" (Translation:
ConsumerIsm) will be handed to them, making the RichGuy even richer (by 
using TaxDeductibleDollars, nonetheless--pretty tricky, eh?).
  And we got your WhiteReds telling us that if they play a CountryBlues 
song as many times as there is pictures of Stalin in Moscow, then, not
only can they make some Drifter a star, but they can measure how many
times JoeSixPack's blood rushes to his brain or his penis while he's
thinking about how *his* baby done left him, too, and that if more blood
is rushing back and forth when Luke the Drifter is singing the words 
'baby' and 'yeah,' then they can take a song called, "Baby, Baby, eah-
eah, eah, eah, Baby eah-eah," and get Joe SixPack's blood flowing
in and out of his penis so fast that he'll need a Pavlovian Drool-Cup
underneath his Pecker, and that they can have the song performed by some
oungStud who they put on TV and have him wiggle his pelvis around like
some BigDickedDarkie, and get the blood flowing back and forth in the
women's private parts too, which would *really* result in "new cultural
forms which would increase the alienation of the populace," because Daddy
don't want his LittlePrincess (TM) getting her LittleNastyParts (TM) all 
juiced up by some WhiteNiggerLoverBoy.


  Oh...except I guess I haven't mentioned the part about TeleVision, yet.

  Anyway, you got to remember that the reason that your RunOfTheMillBasic
GodLessCommie is Godless, is that if you're going to start a rEvolution,
then you can't have your Proletariat all junked-out on Religion, or they
are going to be too laid-back to help you torch the Palace. So you have
to create your basic NewBarbarism, getting rid of anything that smacks
of Universal Truth or Natural Law, and get people to trade in their old
PopeMobile for a SnowmobileRacingAcrossTheTundra, with a BigTittedNun
stroking Nietzsche's IceWeasle in glossy-color ads telling the Prolotariat
that there's no need to stick to the straight-and-narrow path when you've 
got an off-road philosophical vehicle that can go BeyondGoodAndEvil in 
sex-seconds flat.
  This appeals to a lot of people who never had seconds on sex because
they could only fuck once in the backseat of their PopeMobile, since it
was supposed to be for making babies, and not for having fun, but they
can play HideTheSalami as many times as they want on the seat of a
snowmobile, with God-and-everybody watching (only there is not really
any God).

  What is important to realize is that one of the main Keys to making the
BullShitVic's Schtick work, has to do with shit-canning the creative act
and making creativity historically-specific.

[Author's Note: Although this is important, I don't really know exactly
 how to explain why it is so, since I don't really understand it and I
 am, in large part, merely plagarizing excerpts from 'The New Dark Age'
 by Michael J. Minnicino, on this point.
 I think Tim C. May and some of the other CypherPunks understand this
 crap, though, so maybe you could ask them about it...]

  But I *do* understand *why* it is important to Marxist rEvolutionaries
to burn up and toss out all of the old writings and art, and stuff, in
order to take control of the hearts and minds of the Proletariat, since
it is like moving in with a NewOldLady, and she's got pictures of her
old boyfriend around, and loveletters and stuff, and you don't want her
thinking about him while you're sticking your dick in her.

  So, anyway...
  It's not like Rockerfeller ain't 'getting any,' since he's already a
part of the OldBoyNetwork that's GangBangingReality with their OfficalNews
/WorldView Schlongs, but Radio is the NewKidInTown and you don't want him 
stealing your chicks, so you're going to join up with his gang, too, and 
you figure it won't hurt to try and pick up a few new pointers on putting 
your MeatInMotion from Stalin's BumBuddies, since Stalin is, like, the 
JohnnyWadd of Social Control.
  So Stalin's BumBuddies tell you that first, you got to get Prolotariat
Chicks a little tipsy and disoriented by culturing them with a little bit
of Absolut, you set some new cultural forms (make their nipples hard) by
sweet-talking them a bit, and then create a NewBarbarism by talking nasty
to them. 
  Of course, once you have the attention of their orfice, then you keep 
driving home your point, repeatedly, and if you can find the spots on
their body that make them feel good or bad, and give them the proper
combination of each, then you can whisper 'give me all your money' in
their ear while they are in the throes of passion, and they will hardly
notice, but they will *do* it.

{Excuse me, but I've got to go have a smoke...be right back...}

  In reality, as the GodLessCommies from the Institute for Social Research
undoubtedly explained to Rocky, after he had a shower, was that the same
basic rules applied, whether you were using your real name or using an
alias, such as Reverend Sun Moon, Jim Baker, Jim Jones, Dr. Cameron, 
or Richard Helms.
  As a matter of fact, one of the main reasons for the intensity of the
Rockerfeller Foundation's interest in the use of Radio for Social/Mind
Control was that one of Rocky's financial and political associates,
Adolf Hitler, had begun 'stealing the show,' so to speak, with the
vivacity of his powerful presence in the medium.
  Another factor in the Rockerfeller Foundations quest to learn the
secret of using Radio as a tool of social and mind control was the
emergence of Radio's younger cousin, Television, which showed promise
of being able to surpass Radio's ClitLicking talents, and go straight
for the G-spot.

  Theodor Adorno wrote, in regard to TeleVision, in 1944, 
"Its consequences will be quite  enormous and promise to intensify the 
impoverishment of aesthetic matter so drastically that by tomorrow the 
thinly veiled identity of all industrial culture products can come 
triumphantly out in the open, derisively fulfilling the Wagnerian dream 
of the Gesamtkunstwerk--the fusion of all the arts into one work."
(The New World ArtEr)
  In other words, TeleVision was seen by the I.S.P, the Rockerfellers,
Military Intelligence Agencies, et al, FROM ITS VER INCEPTION, as a
useful tool in using intellectually lame, but emotionally significant
content, as an instrument of social control which could be used to
significantly influence the minds/thought/beliefs/opinions of the 
public. (In other words, TV wasn't born 'retarded' by 'accident.')


  So, whether or not one believes in a single individual, or group of
individuals, who is secretly running the world and controlling the whole
of our reality, it seems that there are certainly a number of people who
are *trying* to do so.

  The techniques of mind-control are nothing new--they are centuries old
and are only being 'refined' in our time, through research and experiment-
ation, to be applical over a wider range of geography than simply the 
local village, and over a greater spectrum of ethnicity than the members
of closely related tribes.
  The future of TeleVision was set a half-century ago by people of wealth
and power who had gone to great pains to research the best way to develop
the electronic media as a tool of social control via mind control. Even
the most cursory of checks indicates that members of Military Intelligence
agencies were as 'thick as thieves' in the creation and management of
the Television Industry.

  These people have had over a half-century to develop and refine their
control of and use of electronic media to meet their own ends.
  Wouldn't it be terrifying if they had not only developed the means to
put their witting and unwitting shills *anywhere* they wanted in our
societies, corporations, governments and educational institutions, but
also had a means to use their shills in every area of our life, in order
to influence what we see, think and the way in which we perceive our
world...?

[WATCH THIS SPACE]ALIEN




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Reeza! 
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 04:01:26 -0700 (PDT)
To: Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC 
Subject: Iz thiz real?
In-Reply-To: <009C9964.46C72D20.1@west.cscwc.pima.edu>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980723200049.00867400@205.83.192.13>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


This reads as real, not the mindless rehashing of almost'was that typically
characterizes the posts from "Linda Reed".

Linda, are you sure you didn't eat the drugs, and imagine you were a space
alien?

Reeza!

Text follows:


>  A friend of mine did computer work for an Arizona neurologist who put
>electrodes and steel plates in the skulls of monkeys, rabbits, etc., in
>order to do brain-mapping (one of the major areas of mind-control 
>research), in order to study Parkinson's Disease.
>  The neurologist was approached by a research foundation that was very
>interested in giving him a grant to work with children, instead of with
>animals. This has become an acceptable area of experimentation (a quick
>study of those involved easily links them to a variety of intelligence
>agencies). Their offer was refused as a result of the format and structure
>of the proposal obviously being geared more toward providing information
>and results that had more to do with learning methods to control aberrant
>behavior than with benefitting the proposed child subjects.
>  After his refusal, his current grant was canceled, and he was again
>made the offer, which he accepted.
>
>  Dr. Ewen Cameron, the Canadian MKULTRA mind-butcherer, was instrumental
>in helping the CIA to see the benefit of taking an 'interdisciplinary'
>approach to mind-control.
>  Although Dr. Cameron's basic method was to combine a wide variety of 
>medical, biological, psychiatric, anthropological, et al, methods using
>his own limited knowledge, in your basic VoodooLeeches methodology, the
>CIA and military intelligence agencies began consolidating the various
>arenas of mind/human-conditioning research and experimentation by helping
>to sychronize the research of a wide body of educational and research
>professionals in divergent fields of expertise.
>  As a result of directing the focus and evolution of the majority of
>scientific and psychological research in North America through control
>of the funding mechanisms and access to research publishing, the American
>intelligence community has managed to merge the research community into
>an integrated tool for delivering the information and results desired
>by the Controllers for their own grand designs.
>




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: diy39@interbiz1@mailexcite.com
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 20:25:44 -0700 (PDT)
To: diy39@interbiz1@mailexcite.com
Subject: Creating Wealth In America
Message-ID: <19980723359FAA6701@interbiz.chi.swissbank.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Creating Wealth in America

>From the desk of Robert Allen, The Author of 2 Mega Best-Sellers,
Nothing Down and Creating  Wealth in America

San Diego, California 
11:29 P.M.

"I can't sleep until I get this off my chest."

"I'm extremely frustrated".

Odds are that nine out of ten people who receive this letter will discard 
it without a second thought.  Yet, I know that I have discovered a secret 
that could change your financial life forever!  And I'm willing to share 
it with you for FREE.

     Do you want to end your money pressures forever?
     Do you want to double your income?
     Do you want to build an extra stream of income quickly?

If you answered yes, then let me show you how you can begin living your 
dreams, this year before it's too late.  I'll get right to the point.

As it says on the letterhead, my name is Robert Allen.  I'm famous for 
My two #1 New York Times best-selling books.  Nothing Down and Creating 
Wealth in America.  There are lots of millionaires who credit their 
success to one of my books or seminars.  So when I share this secret 
with you, I want you to know that I've done my homework.  Here it comes.

I have discovered what I believe is the perfect home-based business.

Although I'm well known for real-estate investment books and seminars, 
this new business has absolutely nothing to do with real-estate. In fact,
it's much easier and far less risky.  

It involves:

-No employees
-Little risk
-Little start up cash
-It's so simple, anyone can do it

You could be earning $1,000 a week in as little as 90 days.  One person I 
know went from zero to $3,000 a week in 60 days.  That's $150,000 a year 
extra, hassle-free income!

In my 20 years of research, I can honestly say, "I've never seen a faster,
easier way to create a stream of income".

I know this sounds too good to be true.  Frankly, I didn't believe it 
myself at first.  Finally, I agreed to check it out.  As a test, I 
selected a small group of people and introduced them to this incredible
opportunity.  Almost immediately, many of them started earning profits.  
Within a week, many were earning incomes of $4,000 per month in net cash 
flow.  Now, some of them are cashing checks for $3,000 a week.  And this 
is just the beginning!  Their earning potential could be unlimited!

Would you like to learn how to do that?  I'd love to show you how.  But 
only if you're interested enough to make one telephone call.  The number 
to call immediately is 1-888-310-6470.  It's a 3-minute, 24-hour recorded 
message.  This may be the answer you have been seeking.

Warmly,

Robert G. Allen

P.S.  I want to show you how to create extra streams of income quickly,
      Go to the phone and call now 1-888-310-6470.


// 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ILovToHack@aol.com
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 19:11:10 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Pipe bombs r better
Message-ID: <285f3dfa.35b7ec4c@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

In a message dated 7/23/98 10:05:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ILovToHack
writes:

<< << > they rule!
  
  In your ass, that is...
   >>
 pipe bombs rule how ever puting them there could be hazardous to your health
    #
   *i* 
 __!__
 I       I  Mr pipe bomb 
 I       I
 I       I
 l_ _ _l 



To: chrisharwig@hetnet.nl
Subject: Re: Pipe bombs r better
From: ILovToHack@aol.com
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 22:05:06 EDT


<< > they rule!
 
 In your ass, that is...
  >>
pipe bombs rule how ever puting them there could be hazardous to your health
   #
  *i* 
__!__
I       I  Mr pipe bomb 
I       I
I       I
l_ _ _l




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Frantz 
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 23:31:53 -0700 (PDT)
To: "William H. Geiger III" 
Subject: Re: where...
In-Reply-To: <19980721071954.AAA9474@pc-230>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 2:28 AM -0800 7/21/98, William H. Geiger III wrote:
>The Specs are at: http://www.itu.ch/publications/itu-t/itut.htm
>
>The X.400 specs are actually located under F.400 as this spec has been
>givien a dual designation of F.400/X.400
>
>Seems that you have to *pay* for a copy of this spec, 39 Swiss Francs,
>whatever that is in real money.
>
>X.500 is the same deal but it is only 20 Swiss Francs.

Those prices are a lot better than the last X.25 spec I priced.  My local
paper says that 1 Swiss Franc is worth about 66 US cents ($0.66).  That is
about the same exchange rate as when I was in Switzerland last summer.  As
one of the world's more stable currencies, I would indeed consider the
Swiss Franc to be "real money".


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz       | If hate must be my prison  | Periwinkle -- Consulting
(408)356-8506     | lock, then love must be    | 16345 Englewood Ave.
frantz@netcom.com | the key.     - Phil Ochs   | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED/EUREKA! 
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 20:49:11 -0700 (PDT)
To: All Eureka/Stuffed Subscribers: ;
Subject: Exclusive: Sex & drugs in a tropical paradise/Russians paid in dildos
Message-ID: <19980724020226.17637.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Welcome to  today's  issue of Stuffed. To read it you should
click on the URL below.  If it is not made clickable by your
email program  you will need to  use your mouse to highlight
the line,  copy it and then paste it into your browser (then
press Return).

http://stuffed.net/98/7/23/

If you  have an email program that can display web pages you
will find today's front cover should have already been disp-
layed and can be clicked on to take you straight to Stuffed.

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "LiveUpdate News" 
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 01:15:49 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Crescendo News - July 1998
Message-ID: <00bec2615081878ANNEX@annex.liveupdate.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


CRESCENDO NEWS - July 1998

Hello from the editors of the July 1998 edition of the LiveUpdate 
Crescendo Newsletter.  You're receiving this email because you 
downloaded Crescendo in the past, and we want to keep you up to date with
some of the exciting things that are happening at LiveUpdate.  
We hope you are enjoying Crescendo!

These are some of the items included in this newsletter:

* LiveUpdate launches real-time "SoundChat" chat service
* Crescendo version 3.0 appears on Netscape's SmartUpdate site
* Using Crescendo and Crescendo PLUS version 3.0 with Windows 98
* What is streaming MIDI, and why would I want it?
* What would you like to see in future versions of Crescendo?
* Subscribing / Unsubscribing

----------------------------------

LIVEUPDATE LAUNCHES REAL-TIME "SOUNDCHAT" SERVICE

On July 21st, LiveUpdate opened the "SoundChat" General Discussion
real-time chat Forum.  This is the first of many free chat areas which
LiveUpdate is providing to allow you to chat in real time with fellow 
Crescendo users around the world.  Over time, we will be opening new 
rooms for surfers, webmasters, and musicians to congregate and discuss 
specific issues relating to player installation, adding music to your 
web site, MIDI file creation, and much more.  We will also be hosting 
live events where you will be able to chat with world-class experts 
on these various topics.

As an added bonus, chatters are now being given early access to our 
newest technology, Crescendo Forte.  To sign up and start chatting, 
point your web browser to http://soundchat.com/chat.

----------------------------------

CRESCENDO VERSION 3.0 APPEARS ON NETSCAPE'S SMARTUPDATE SITE

We are proud to announce that Netscape has chosen Crescendo as one
of the few elite add-on components for inclusion in the new SmartUpdate
area of the Netscape site.  SmartUpdate is a free service that allows
you to automatically download and install the latest versions of 
Navigator add-on components, now including Crescendo.  The latest full 
versions of Crescendo and Crescendo PLUS will continue to be available 
from the LiveUpdate site at http://www.liveupdate.com/dl.html.

----------------------------------

WHAT IS STREAMING MIDI, AND WHY WOULD I WANT IT?

"Streaming" is the ability to listen to music while it is being sent to 
you over the Internet.  In much the same way that web images fill in as 
they are downloading, our patent-pending streaming MIDI technology 
starts playing and "fills in" the music as it downloads, allowing you to 
hear the music long before the entire MIDI file has finished downloading.
In most cases, streaming MIDI music will start to play almost immediately.

Crescendo PLUS is the only MIDI player available in the world that will 
stream all types of MIDI files from any Internet source.  Crescendo PLUS
is available for immediate purchase ($19.95) and download at the LiveUpdate 
on-line store (https://secure.liveupdate.com).

If you are a web site author, and you would like to add streaming MIDI
to your web site, we offer a product called "Crescendo StreamSite" which
consists of a key for your web server that unlocks the streaming
feature which is included in the free versions of Crescendo.  The StreamSite
key is completely compatible with all web servers, and doesn't require
any intervention from your service provider.  Installation of the StreamSite
key involves uploading a single binary file to your web site, and can
be easily completed in less than 5 minutes.  Personal StreamSite keys
are available for immediate purchase ($49.95) and download at the LiveUpdate 
on-line store.

You can experience streaming MIDI without purchasing anything at all.
Just download the latest version of the free Crescendo player and 
visit the Crescendo StreamSites listed at 
http://www.liveupdate.com/streamsites.html.  These sites have all purchased 
StreamSite keys so that you can enjoy streaming MIDI as you visit their 
sites.

----------------------------------

USING CRESCENDO AND CRESCENDO PLUS VERSION 3.0 WITH WINDOWS 98

To the best of our knowledge, Crescendo and Crescendo PLUS are completely 
compatible with Windows 98.  If Crescendo has worked for you in the but 
you are having trouble after installing Windows 98, we have found that 
re-installing Crescendo will most likely solve any problems you may be
experiencing.  If you still see problems after re-installing, send a 
message to helpdesk@liveupdate.com and we will try to help.

----------------------------------

WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE IN FUTURE VERSIONS OF CRESCENDO?

We are constantly looking for new ideas to be included in future
versions of the Crescendo player.  If you have any cool ideas of
things you would like to see added to Crescendo, send them to
feedback@liveupdate.com.  Who knows - maybe your suggestion will
makes its way into the next version of Crescendo!

----------------------------------

SUBSCRIBING / UNSUBSCRIBING

Note: Messages from LiveUpdate to this list will not be sent any more
frequently than once a month, and your information has not and will not 
be given to others or sold.  If you wish to unsubscribe from this list, 
or if this message has been forwarded to you by a friend and you would
like to subscribe to our newsletter, please send a message to 
newsletter@liveupdate.com.

*******************************************

Spread the Music!





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 23:05:22 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Todd Bowers: Dumbass
Message-ID: <199807240605.IAA00062@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Thu, 23 Jul 1998, Todd Bowers wrote:

> 
> cool ..... i am 13
> 
> 

Actually, your being a complete dumbass overshadows your being 13.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Gvtgrantz@sprintmail.com
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 18:09:56 -0700 (PDT)
To: Gvtgrantz@sprintmail.com
Subject: Free Government Grants
Message-ID: <199807232351.IAA13191@JingXian.xmu.edu.cn>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


The US Government sets aside Billions of dollars each year in
the form  of grants and loans for entrepreneurs and the American
public. Your tax  dollars are not all spent by the Defense Department.
A large percentage  of your tax dollars are set up for domestic
assistance to help individuals, entrepreneurs and businesses create 
jobs whether the company is large or small. Steven Jobs received 
government help with his company Apple Computers, Donald Trump,
Ross Perot , Lee Iaccoca are just to name  a few of the individuals
who used this program to start billion dollar  corporations.
Each year the government gives out hundreds of millions of dollars
to  companies,individuals and entrepreneurs, homemakers and the likes.
Currently, less than 2% of the population applies for grants and 
loans  while a large percentage around 4 Billion remains unclaimed
when it  could help an entrepreneur, company or someone in need. 
Most Americans  do not know these programs exist for their benefit.
The government wants  you to succeed in hopes of stimulating the 
economy. Take a look at some  of the programs available.
Direct Grants to $800,000 Direct Loans to $2,200,000. Over 300 grants 
for business and loans that are easier to obtain than conventional 
loans. All grants and some loans require no credit check and no  
collateral because you are actually borrowing your tax dollars set
aside  for business start-up and development. You live in the 
greatest country  in the world "Only in America" You hear the term 
spoken but without  comprehension. More immigrants call for assistance
than US citizen,s  they see the opportunity and if not first successful
they try back when  they become citizen,s. Are they successful? 
Eventually.
The government means business ,to help you they have hired over 
1500  professionals to help you if only you would call. The area
of expertise  falls under marketing, consultation,import,export
and anything  pertaining to business that might help you succeed.
This could mean the  difference in success or failure of your 
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If you are a tax paying citizen you owe it to yourself to take a 
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Just for ordering, you will receive: 
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Mail to: 
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bob Cummings <0_rcummi@funrsc.fairfield.edu>
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 07:45:40 -0700 (PDT)
To: Skoitch@aol.com
Subject: Re: W.A.Y.
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Thu, 23 Jul 1998 Skoitch@aol.com wrote:

> 
> WHY CANT I FIND ANY WHITE AMERICAN YOUTH ALBUMS ANYWHERE?   
> 
> 

Reason 1:  You're from AOL
Reason 2:  You don't know where the caps lock key is
Reason 3:  You're looking on the cypherpunks list for music.
Reason 4:  You're from AOL





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: CTIA Daily News 
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 10:31:59 -0700 (PDT)
To: CTIA Daily News 
Subject: CTIA Daily News from WOW-COM - July 24, 1998
Message-ID: <199807241706.MAA19229@revnet2.revnet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




==========================================
Welcome to today's edition of the CTIA Daily News
from WOW-COM.  Please click on the icon / attachment
for the most important news in wireless communications today.

A new multi-billion dollar industry is here! 
Be at CTIA's WIRELESS I.T. '98
where personal computing and communications converge!

Don't Miss Your Chance -- October 12-14, 1998
Bally's Las Vegas, Las Vegas, NV

For more information, visit http://www.wirelessit.com 
===========================================
 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: wioca62@galaxylink.com.hk (jumiel)
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 06:53:01 -0700 (PDT)
To: wioca62@galaxylink.com.hk
Subject: stop paying those inflated airfare prices
Message-ID: <199807241044SAA15312@humkoipoio.hujk.saar.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



USA Today has reported that business fares rose approximately 20%
in 1998. This is on top of a 15% gain from 1997.
EXCURSION OR VACATION FARES CANNOT BE FAR BEHIND.

Many people believe that they can find the cheapest airfares by 
surfing through the many on-line reservation systems available on the
Internet. DON'T BE FOOLED These reservation systems are owned,
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are on the same flights that airlines are charging other passengers
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*** How to get Airlines to notify you about discounts
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*** Ticket strategies Airlines don't want you to know.

*** How to save at least 50% on International Travel.

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*** How to get domestic tickets for 40% to 60% off.

Whether your goal is to go on that vacation of a lifetime or to
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^^^^^^^
gend




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC 
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 15:49:03 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Is that real?
Message-ID: <009C9AA3.421B6260.5@west.cscwc.pima.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


X-URL: mailto:cypherpunks@toad.com
X-Mailer: Lynx, Version 2-4-2
X-Personal_name: Linda Reeza
X-From: obvious@forgery.eff

Reeza,
  Stop hacking those military computer accounts, and quit backtalking
to your teacher, or you'll never get out of grade 4...

  Yes, the passage of SAHMD, regarding putting electronic probes into the
brains of children and other monkeys was Real (TM), as is almost every 
other 'example' used in the True Story manuscripts, although there is
often small 'liberties' taken with the details, names, etc., for reasons
of protecting someone's ass (usually mind) for disseminating classified
material without proper authorization from an officially recognized law-
breaker/news-leaker, or just because I'm drunk.
  It is often left as an ExerciseForTheReader, if they are interested, to
do a websearch, or whatever, and see if they can uncover such details as,
say, a person who might be named, lets say, for the sake of argument...
E.B. Montgomery, who was engaged in giving MonkeyBrains direct electronic
subscriptions to Wired Magazine, and who recently moved to Chicago, to
continue his work on a new level.

Linda Lou Reeza
{The *real* owner of the military account that the little grade 4
 troublemaker is hacking and posting through, as well as forging
 chapters of SAHMD under the alias, LREED.}





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC 
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 16:16:47 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: mailto:cypherpunks@toad.com
Message-ID: <009C9AA7.2778B3A0.8@west.cscwc.pima.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


X-URL: mailto:cypherpunks@toad.com
X-Mailer: Lynx, Version 2-4-2
X-Personal_name: Dog Day Afternoont






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Iain Collins" 
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 09:05:18 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: RE: W.A.Y.
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <000d01bdb71c$6c3dd200$c7f3b094@webadmin.sol.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


>
> WHY CANT I FIND ANY WHITE AMERICAN YOUTH ALBUMS ANYWHERE?
>

Try tidying up!
Try asking your brother if be 'borrowed' them all!
Try looking in a record store!



Iain, 

PS: I'd like to ask how on earth so many people manage to subscribe to this
list, solely in order to churn out stuff like this? How do they manage to
use the e-mail software to actually send a message to this group? How do
they remember to breathe? AGH!!!!!!!!!





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC 
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 19:53:04 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: A Thousand Points Of Fight
Message-ID: <009C9AC5.59A235E0.9@west.cscwc.pima.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



   Breakthrough Texts 
   Leaderless Resistance
   An Essay by Louis Beam
   
     
     
     "Leaderless Resistance" -- Part One
     
     [IMAGE] The concept of leaderless resistance was proposed by Col.
     Ulius Louis Amoss, who was the founder of International Service of
     Information Incorporated, located in Baltimore, Maryland. Col. Amoss
     died more than 15 years ago, but during his life he was a tireless
     opponent of Communism, as well as a skilled intelligence officer.
     [INLINE] Col. Amoss first wrote of leaderless resistance on April
     17, 1962. His theories of organization were primarily directed
     against the threat of eventual Communist takeover in the United
     States. The present writer, with the benefit of having lived many
     years beyond Col. Amoss, has taken his theories and expounded on
     them.
     [INLINE] Col. Amoss feared the Communists. This author fears the
     federal government. Communism now represents a threat to no one in
     the United States, while federal tyranny represents a threat to
     EVERYONE. The writer has joyfully lived long enough to see the dying
     breaths of Communism, but may unhappily remain long enough to see
     the last dying gasps of freedom in America.
     [INLINE] In the hope that, somehow, America can still produce the
     brave sons and daughters necessary to fight off ever-increasing
     persecution and oppression, this essay is offered. Frankly, it is
     too close to call at this point. Those who love liberty, and believe
     in freedom enough to fight for it, are rare today; but within the
     bosom of every once great nation, there remains secreted the pearls
     of former greatness.
     [INLINE] They are there. I have looked into their sparkling eyes;
     sharing a brief moment in time with them as I passed through this
     life. Relished their friendship, endured their pain, and they mine.
     We are a band of brothers native to the soil, gaining strength one
     from another as we have rushed headlong into battle that all the
     weaker, timid men say we can not win. Perhaps not... but then again,
     perhaps we can. It's not over till the last freedom fighter is
     buried or imprisoned, or the same happens to those who would destroy
     their liberty.
     [INLINE] Barring any cataclysmic events, the struggle will yet go on
     for years. The passage of time will make it clear to even the more
     slow among us that the government is the foremost threat to the life
     and liberty of the folk. The government will no doubt make today's
     oppressiveness look like grade school work compared to what they
     have planned in the future. Meanwhile, there are those of us who
     continue to hope that somehow the few can do what the many have not.
     [INLINE] We are cognizant that before things get better they will
     certainly get worse as government shows a willingness to use ever
     more severe police state measures against dissidents. This changing
     situation makes it clear that those who oppose state repression must
     be prepared to alter, adapt, and modify their behavior, strategy,
     and tactics as circumstances warrant. Failure to consider new
     methods and implement them as necessary will make the government's
     efforts at suppression uncomplicated. It is the duty of every
     patriot to make the tyrant's life miserable. When one fails to do so
     he not only fails himself, but his people.
     [INLINE] With this in mind, current methods of resistance to tyranny
     employed by those who love our race, culture, and heritage must pass
     a litmus test of soundness. Methods must be objectively measured as
     to their effectiveness, as well as to whether they make the
     government's intention of repression more possible or more
     difficult. Those not working to aid our objectives must be
     discarded, or the government benefits from our failure to do so.
     [INLINE] As honest men who have banded together into groups or
     associations of a political or religious nature are falsely labeled
     "domestic terrorists" or "cultists" and suppressed, it will become
     necessary to consider other methods of organization, or as the case
     may very well call for: non- organization.
     [INLINE] One should keep in mind that it is not in the government's
     interest to eliminate all groups. Some few must remain in order to
     perpetuate the smoke and mirrors for the masses that America is a
     "free democratic country" where dissent is allowed. Most
     organizations, however, that possess the potential for effective
     resistance will not be allowed to continue. Anyone who is so naive
     as to believe the most powerful government on earth will not crush
     any who pose a real threat to that power, should not be active, but
     rather at home studying political history.
     [INLINE] The question as to who is to be left alone and who is not,
     will be answered by how groups and individuals deal with several
     factors such as: avoidance of conspiracy plots, rejection of
     feebleminded malcontents, insistence upon quality of the
     participants, avoidance of all contact with the front men for the
     federals - the news media - and, finally, camouflage (which can be
     defined as the ability to blend in the public's eye the more
     committed groups of resistance with mainstream "kosher" associations
     that are generally seen as harmless).
     [INLINE] Primarily though, whether any organization is allowed to
     continue in the future will be a matter of how big a threat a group
     represents. Not a threat in terms of armed might or political
     ability, for there is none of either for the present, but rather,
     threat in terms of potentiality. It is potential the federals fear
     most. Whether that potential exists in an individual or group is
     incidental. The federals measure potential threat in terms of what
     might happen given a situation conducive to action on the part of a
     resistive organization or individual. Accurate intelligence
     gathering allows them to assess the potential. Showing one's hand
     before the bets are made is a sure way to lose.
     [INLINE] The movement for freedom is rapidly approaching the point
     where, for many people, the option of belonging to a group will be
     non-existent. For others, group membership will be a viable option
     for only the immediate future. Eventually, and perhaps much sooner
     than most believe possible, the price paid for membership will
     exceed any perceived benefit. But for now, some of the groups that
     do exist often serve a useful purpose either for the newcomer who
     can be indoctrinated into the ideology of the struggle, or for
     generating positive propaganda to reach potential freedom fighters.
     It is sure that, for the most part, this struggle is rapidly
     becoming a matter of individual action, each of its participants
     making a private decision in the quietness of his heart to resist:
     to resist by any means necessary.
     [INLINE] It is hard to know what others will do, for no man truly
     knows another man's heart. It is enough to know what one himself
     will do. A great teacher once said "know thyself." Few men really
     do, but let each of us promise ourselves not to go quietly to the
     fate our would-be masters have planned.
     [INLINE] The concept of leaderless resistance is nothing less than a
     fundamental departure in theories of organization. The orthodox
     scheme of organization is diagrammatically represented by the
     pyramid, with the mass at the bottom and the leader at the top. This
     fundamental of organization is to be seen not only in armies, which
     are, of course, the best illustration of the pyramid structure, with
     the mass of soldiery (the privates) at the bottom responsible to
     corporals; who are in turn responsible to sergeants, and so on up
     the entire chain of command to the generals at the top. But the same
     structure is seen in corporations, ladies' garden clubs, and in our
     political system itself. This orthodox "pyramid" scheme of
     organization is to be seen basically in all existing political,
     social, and religious structures in the world today, from the
     Federal government to the Roman Catholic Church.
     [INLINE] The Constitution of the United States, in the wisdom of the
     Founders, tried to sublimate the essential dictatorial nature
     pyramidal organization by dividing authority into three: executive,
     legislative, and judicial. But the pyramid remains essentially
     untouched.
     [INLINE] This scheme of organization, the pyramid, is not only
     useless, but extremely dangerous for the participants when it is
     utilized in a resistance movement against state tyranny. Especially
     is this so in technologically advanced societies where electronic
     surveillance can often penetrate the structure, thus revealing its
     chain of command. Experience has revealed over and over again that
     anti-state political organizations utilizing this method of command
     and control are easy prey for government infiltration, entrapment,
     and destruction of the personnel involved. This has been seen
     repeatedly in the United States where pro-government infiltrators or
     agent provocateurs weasel their way into patriotic groups and
     destroy them from within.
     [INLINE] In the pyramid form of organization, an infiltrator can
     destroy anything which is beneath his level of infiltration, and
     often those above him as well. If the traitor has infiltrated at the
     top, then the entire organization from the top down is compromised
     and may be traduced at will.
     
     
     "Leaderless Resistance" -- Part Two
     
     [IMAGE] A recent example of the cell system taken from the left wing
     of politics are the Communists. The Communists, in order to get
     around the obvious problems involved in pyramidal organization,
     developed to an art the cell system. They had numerous independent
     cells which operated completely isolated from one another and
     particularly with no knowledge of each other, but were orchestrated
     together by a central headquarters. For instance, during WWII, in
     Washington, it is known that there were at least six secret
     Communist cells operating at high levels in the United States
     government (plus all the open Communists who were protected and
     promoted by President Roosevelt), however, only one of the cells was
     rooted out and destroyed. How many more actually were operating, no
     one can say for sure.
     [INLINE] The Communist cells which operated in the U.S. until late
     1991 under Soviet control could have at their command a leader who
     held a social position which appeared to be very lowly. He could be,
     for example, a busboy in a restaurant, but in reality a colonel or a
     general in the Soviet Secret Service, the KGB. Under him could be a
     number of cells, and a person active in one cell would almost never
     have knowledge of individuals who were active in other cells; in
     fact, the members of the other cells would be supporting that cell
     which was under attack and ordinarily would lend very strong support
     to it in many ways. This is at least part of the reason, no doubt,
     that whenever in the past Communists were attacked in this country,
     support for them sprang up in many unexpected places.
     [INLINE] The effective and efficient operation of a cell system
     after the Communist model is, of course, dependent upon central
     direction, which means impressive organization, funding from the
     top, and outside support, all of which the Communists had.
     Obviously, American patriots have none of these things at the top or
     anywhere else, and so an effective cell organization based upon the
     Soviet system of operation is impossible.
     [INLINE] Two things become clear from the above discussion. First,
     that the pyramid form of organization can be penetrated quite easily
     and it thus is not a sound method of organization in situations
     where the government has the resources and desire to penetrate the
     structure, which is the situation in this country. Secondly, that
     the normal qualifications for the cell structure based upon the Red
     model does not exist in the U.S. for patriots. This understood, the
     question arises "What method is left for those resisting state
     tyranny?"
     [INLINE] The answer comes from Col. Amoss who proposed the "Phantom
     Cell" mode of organization which he described as Leaderless
     Resistance. A system of organization that is based upon the cell
     organization, but does not have any central control or direction,
     that is in fact almost identical to the methods used by the
     committees of correspondence during the American Revolution.
     Utilizing the Leaderless Resistance concept, all individuals and
     groups operate independently of each other, and never report to a
     central headquarters or single leader for direction or instruction,
     as would those who belong to a typical pyramid organization.
     [INLINE] At first glance, such a form of organization seems
     unrealistic, primarily because there appears to be no organization.
     The natural question thus arises as to how are the "Phantom Cells"
     and individuals to cooperate with each other when there is no
     inter-communication or central direction?
     [INLINE] The answer to this question is that participants in a
     program of leaderless resistance through "Phantom Cell" or
     individual action must know exactly what they are doing and how to
     do it. It becomes the responsibility of the individual to acquire
     the necessary skills and information as to what is to be done. This
     is by no means as impractical as it appears, because it is certainly
     true that in any movement all persons involved have the same general
     outlook, are acquainted with the same philosophy, and generally
     react to given situations in similar ways. The previous history of
     the committees of correspondence during the American Revolution
     shows this to be true.
     [INLINE] Since the entire purpose of leaderless resistance is to
     defeat state tyranny (at least in so far as this essay is
     concerned), all members of phantom cells or individuals will tend to
     react to objective events in the same way through usual tactics of
     resistance. Organs of information distribution such as newspapers,
     leaflets, computers, etc., which are widely available to all, keep
     each person informed of events, allowing for a planned response that
     will take many variations. No one need issue an order to anyone.
     Those idealists truly committed to the cause of freedom will act
     when they feel the time is ripe, or will take their cue from others
     who precede them. While it is true that much could be said against
     this kind of structure as a method of resistance, it must be kept in
     mind that leaderless resistance is a child of necessity. The
     alternatives to it have been shown to be unworkable or impractical.
     Leaderless resistance has worked before in the American Revolution,
     and if the truly committed put it to use themselves, it will work
     now.
     [INLINE] It goes almost without saying that Leaderless Resistance
     leads to very small or even one-man cells of resistance. Those who
     join organizations to play "let's pretend" or who are "groupies"
     will quickly be weeded out. While for those who are serious about
     their opposition to federal despotism, this is exactly what is
     desired.
     [INLINE] From the point of view of tyrants and would-be potentates
     in the federal bureaucracy and police agencies, nothing is more
     desirable than that those who oppose them be UNIFIED in their
     command structure, and that EVERY person who opposes them belong to
     a pyramid style group. Such groups and organizations are easy to
     kill. Especially in light of the fact that the Justice (sic)
     Department promised in 1987 that there would never be another group
     to oppose them that they did not have at least one informer in!
     These federal "friends of government" are ZOG or ADL intelligence
     agents. They gather information that can be used at the whim of a
     federal D.A. to prosecute. The line of battle has been drawn.
     [INLINE] Patriots are REQUIRED, therefore, to make a conscious
     decision to either aid the government in its illegal spying (by
     continuing with old methods of organization and resistance), or to
     make the enemy's job more difficult by implementing effective
     countermeasures.
     [INLINE] Now there will, no doubt, be mentally handicapped people
     out there who will state emphatically in their best red, white, and
     blue voice, while standing at a podium with an American flag draped
     in the background and a lone eagle soaring in the sky above, that,
     "So what if the government is spying? We are not violating any
     laws." Such crippled thinking by any serious person is the best
     example that there is a need for special education classes. The
     person making such a statement is totally out of contact with
     political reality in this country, and unfit for leadership of
     anything more than a dog sled in the Alaskan wilderness. The old
     "Born on the Fourth of July" mentality that has influenced so much
     of the Aryan-American Patriot's thinking in the past will not save
     him from the government in the future. "Reeducation" for
     non-thinkers of this kind will take place in the federal prison
     system where there are no flags or eagles, but an abundance of men
     who were "not violating any laws.".
     [INLINE] Most groups who "unify" their disparate associates into a
     single structure have short political lives. Therefore, those
     movement leaders constantly calling for unity of organization,
     rather than the desirable Unity of Purpose, usually fall into one of
     three categories:
    1. They may not be sound political tacticians, but rather, just
       committed men who feel unity would help their cause, while not
       realizing that the government would greatly benefit from such
       efforts. The Federal objective, to imprison or destroy all who
       oppose them, is made easier in pyramid organizations.
       
    2. Or, perhaps, they do not fully understand the struggle they are
       involved in, and that the government they oppose has declared a
       state of war against those fighting for faith, folk, freedom,
       property and constitutional liberty. Those in power will use any
       means to rid themselves of opposition.
       
    3. The third class calling for unity, and let us hope this is the
       minority of the three, are men more desirous of the supposed power
       that a large organization would bestow, than of actually achieving
       their stated purpose.
       
     [INLINE] Conversely, the LAST thing federal snoops want, if they had
     any choice in the matter, is a thousand different small phantom
     cells opposing them. It is easy to see why. Such a situation is an
     intelligence nightmare for a government intent upon knowing
     everything they possibly can about those who oppose them. The
     Federals, able to amass overwhelming strength of numbers, manpower,
     resources, intelligence gathering, and capability at any given time,
     need only a focal point to direct their anger [ie Waco]. A single
     penetration of a pyramid style organization can lead to the
     destruction of the whole. Whereas, leaderless resistance presents no
     single opportunity for the Federals to destroy a significant portion
     of the resistance.
     [INLINE] With the announcement of the Department of Justice (sic)
     that 300 FBI agents formerly assigned to watching Soviet spies in
     the U.S. (domestic counter-intelligence) are now to be used to
     "combat crime," the federal government is preparing the way for a
     major assault upon those persons opposed to their policies. Many
     anti-government groups dedicated to the preservation of the America
     of our Forefathers can expect shortly to feel the brunt of a new
     federal assault upon liberty.
     [INLINE] It is clear, therefore, that it is time to rethink
     traditional strategy and tactics when it comes to opposing state
     tyranny, where the rights now accepted by most as being inalienable
     will disappear. Let the coming night be filled with a thousand
     points of resistance. Like the fog which forms when conditions are
     right, and disappears when they are not, so must the resistance to
     tyranny be.
     
     Leaderless Resistance first appeared in The Seditionist in 1992. The
     author, Louis Beam, is one of the most respected racialist leaders
     in the world (within racialist circles, that is), and has
     established his own homepage to distribute his work.
       _______________________________________________________________
     
     
     
     Texts Archive: Breakthrough Texts 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED/EUREKA! 
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 15:13:07 -0700 (PDT)
To: All Eureka/Stuffed Subscribers: ;
Subject: Sex was just blow good/Fart demolishes house
Message-ID: <19980724200551.12388.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Welcome to  today's  issue of Stuffed. To read it you should
click on the URL below.  If it is not made clickable by your
email program  you will need to  use your mouse to highlight
the line,  copy it and then paste it into your browser (then
press Return).

http://stuffed.net/98/7/24/

If you  have an email program that can display web pages you
will find today's front cover should have already been disp-
layed and can be clicked on to take you straight to Stuffed.

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Digital Frontiers Info 
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 04:49:43 -0700 (PDT)
To: digf-offer@digfrontiers.interaccess.com
Subject: HVS Toolkit 25% Discount Offer
Message-ID: <199807250327.WAA26488@digfrontiers.>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hi --

We would like to thank you for your download of an HVS Series demo. First,
we apologize to those of you who received multiple copies of a recent
mailing from us as a result of our email server meltdown. We've now
implemented an email notification system that should prevent such woeful
circumstances from happening again. If you don't wish to receive more
information about Digital Frontiers special offers please reply to
info@digfrontiers.com and ask to be removed.

As a gesture of thanks and appreciation, we would like to offer you a 25%
discount on our HVS Toolkit Pro, which includes the latest versions of the
award-winning HVS ColorGIF, HVS JPEG and HVS Animator Pro, through August
30th 1998. HVS Tooolkit Pro regularly retails at $208 but you may purchase
it for $156 (more than 50% off separate retail prices) for this limited
time only.

Because this offer is only available to demo registrants, it will not be
available on our commerce server. Individual products are available at a
10% discount from our commerce server at
http://www.digfrontiers.com/purchase.html as part of our summer sale. For
product information, please visit http://www.digfrontiers.com, or reply to
this email.

To take advantage of the 25% offer, please email, fax or call us with the
following information:

First Name:
Last Name:
Billing Address:
Email: (if faxed):
Phone Number:

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Expiration Date:

Platform: (Mac or Windows):

Yes, I would like to order the HVS Toolkit Pro  at $156.  Please send me my
download codes by to:

Signature ( or type name):


Digital Frontiers, LLC
http://www.digfrontiers.com
voice:  847-328-0880
fax:  847-869-2053
info@digfrontiers.com






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: edd@spdy.com
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 05:47:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Win the Grand Prize 10 day trip to Hawaii....Enter the drawing!
Message-ID: <626.93044.498896@user932029.nessor.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Win the Grand Prize 10 day trip to Hawaii....Enter the drawing!!!!. 

Hundreds of valuable prizes will be awarded to the winners of ourexciting drawing.

And one lucky winner will receive a 10-day Hawaiian vacation for two!

It costs nothing to enter. To enter, simply become a preferred e-mailsubscriber to our FREE financial information newsletter. A new winner will be selected everyday! 
There is absolutely no cost to you. 

Receive a FREE 12-month subscription to this informative financial 
information newsletter. You'll receive breaking news on all companies
currently profiled as well as all future profiles as soon as they arereleased. 
The last company profiled was up 92% in one week! 

You must be at least 18 years old to enter.

To enter the drawing go to
http://www.eopop.com/dd/guest_book.htm

HOT STOCK UPDATE

Prime Marketing Inc. (OTC BB-PMMI 1.25) We are hearing that the company has a major order pending with a well-known supermarket chain. Giant's Stadium has just increased their weekly order by 50% for their Sicilian Crust Pizza pies.
We are told that the company is getting ready to launch a national franchise chain with a unique concept in the restaurant industry.
We look for the stock to trade back to the $4.50 & sp; 5.50 level.
Freedom Rock Partners has been paid 50,000 shares of Prime Marketing, Inc. stock as a fee to prepare this report. For more info please see ourdisclaimerhttp://www.eopop.com/dd/disclaimer.htm

Please fill out the form to receive a 12-month free subscription to
our financial information newsletter absolutely free. Go tohttp://www.eopop.com/dd/guest_book.htm

NOTE: 
For those on the Internet who do not want to receive exciting messages
such as this.....to be removed from our mailing list and our affiliate lists 
go to:edd@spdy.comand type remove.

*We strive to comply with all state and federal laws and to send ads onlyto interested parties.


*This ad is not intended for nor do we knowingly send to Washington Stateresidents. 
* Responding to the " return address & quot; will  NOT have your name removed. 

Win the Grand Prize 10 day trip to Hawaii....Enter the drawing!!!!. 

Hundreds of valuable prizes will be awarded to the winners of ourexciting drawing.

And one lucky winner will receive a 10-day Hawaiian vacation for two!

It costs nothing to enter. To enter, simply become a preferred e-mailsubscriber to our FREE financial information newsletter. A new winner will be selected everyday! 
There is absolutely no cost to you. 

Receive a FREE 12-month subscription to this informative financial 
information newsletter. You'll receive breaking news on all companies
currently profiled as well as all future profiles as soon as they arereleased. 
The last company profiled was up 92% in one week! 

You must be at least 18 years old to enter.

To enter the drawing go to
http://www.eopop.com/dd/guest_book.htm

HOT STOCK UPDATE

Prime Marketing Inc. (OTC BB-PMMI 1.25) We are hearing that the company has a major order pending with a well-known supermarket chain. Giant's Stadium has just increased their weekly order by 50% for their Sicilian Crust Pizza pies.
We are told that the company is getting ready to launch a national franchise chain with a unique concept in the restaurant industry.
We look for the stock to trade back to the $4.50 & sp; 5.50 level.
Freedom Rock Partners has been paid 50,000 shares of Prime Marketing, Inc. stock as a fee to prepare this report. For more info please see ourdisclaimerhttp://www.eopop.com/dd/disclaimer.htm

Please fill out the form to receive a 12-month free subscription to
our financial information newsletter absolutely free. Go tohttp://www.eopop.com/dd/guest_book.htm

NOTE: 
For those on the Internet who do not want to receive exciting messages
such as this.....to be removed from our mailing list and our affiliate lists 
go to:edd@spdy.comand type remove.

*We strive to comply with all state and federal laws and to send ads onlyto interested parties.


*This ad is not intended for nor do we knowingly send to Washington Stateresidents. 
* Responding to the " return address & quot; will  NOT have your name removed. 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC 
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 03:32:48 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Tarantula Day Afternoon - SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS!!!
Message-ID: <009C9B05.95BB8AA0.5@west.cscwc.pima.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Tarantula Day Afternoon - SPACE ALIENS HIDE M DRUGS!!!
_______________________________________________________

                                                                             
* To: Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC 
* Subject: Iz thiz real?
* From: Reeza! 
* Sender: owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
__________________________________________________________________

This reads as real, not the mindless rehashing of almost'was that typically
characterizes the posts from "Linda Reed".

Linda, are you sure you didn't eat the drugs, and imagine you were a space
alien?

Reeza!
__________________________________________________________________

  As Carlos S. Thompson and Hunter Castenada would no doubt agree,
keeping track of what Was/!Was (TM), when surfing a Digital Mind
Wave on a hacked machine with both MultiMedia and MultiReality
capabilities, can sometimes leave one confused as to where OneSelf
(1) ends, and where the Other/GreatVoid (0) begins.
  Adding to the confusion is the fact that the normal True/False
values returned by IfAndOrWhoTheFuckWantsToKnowConditionalParole
Statements, is (1) for True, and (0) for False, making it very
easy for graduates of the Richard Nixon School of Reality to
believe that OneSelf is always right, while the Other is always
wrong, and that thus, They (TM) are out to get you, and that if
they succeed, They won't have Little Jimmy Hacker's Sack to kick
around anymore.

  On the other hand, the recent proliferation of rattlesnakes and
tarantulas showing up, out of the blue, on the doorstep of the
abode in which I am currently residing, as well as underneath the
desk from which I am currently canning the small squares of pink,
digital flesh being marketed on the CypherPunks Disturbed Male
LISP, leads me to believe that, unless I am picking up visions
of pre-release Stephen King novels through the fillings in my 
teeth, then some part of what I am writing must be true enough
to be pissing *someone* off...
  Regretfully, although I have been driving the tarantulas out 
into the desert and releasing them (next to the mayor's house),
I have not checked to see if they actually contain little, tiny
brain electrodes in their skulls, whereby they may be directed
by remote control toward me, specifically, by the children of
spooks who really haven't gotten the hang of the new technology,
yet, and who seize the opportunity to grease the family income
by putting their relatives on the payroll.

  Now, as far as the posts to the CypherPunks list purporting to
be from thirteen year-old nymphomaniacs and pipe-bomb avacados,
far be it from me to imagine, even in my deepest fits of raging
paranoia, that these might be some cheap attempt at getting me
to reply, given my past long, ramblind diatribes on young boys'
hardware, and young girls' software, not to mention the silly
allegations about Canada-wide warrants out for my arrest on Mad
Bomber charges.
  As I will soon extrapolate (this is the *wrong* word to use,
here, but it sounds so much like it has to do with leather, and
bondage, that I couldn't help myself...) on, any Spook/LEA who
took the time and trouble to run previous editions of my many
public eruditions through their ComputerizedPersonalProfiling
System would undoubtedly find that any entrapment aimed toward
me, personally, should use bait which smelled like BitchInHeat
sprayed on a NuclearSuitcaseMoustrap. 
[Not to mention, as I will explain in more detail, early next 
week, trolling for interest/information on the on-site preparation
of anthrax-related types of substances which could be safely 
created without risk of self-exposure, if one were to have an 
interest in, let's say, for the sake of argument, wiping out all 
of the members of an enemy training camp, leaving nothing but a
PileOfBones where a GangOfOppressors previously existed.]
  
  Of course, any wild-eyed conspiracy theory involving a group
of individuals capable of monitoring the populace and having
agents in place throughout society who were in a position to
use detailed, effective personality profiles to control, fuck 
with or entrap an astounding number of individual members of the
citizenry, would have to include hard evidence of research and
experimentation in these areas.
  No problem...

  The OfficiallyDeclaredGoodGuys working for GodBlessAmerica
SecretSpyAgencies, as opposed to SecretSpyAgencies of EvilForeign
GovernmentsofDarkerSkinnedPeople, always seem to find themselves
forced to, in order to develop the capacity to be here to help
us, study, in detail, the techniques and methods of the most vile,
depraved monsters on the face of the earth.
  Thus CIA brainwashing researchers such as psychologist John
Gittinger, in order to prepare to 'help' us, needed not only to
study the records of the Nazi medical butchers at Dachau, and the
techniques of Communist Chinese brainwashing methods, but even to
pore over ancient documents which went as far back as the Spanish
Inquisition.

[Note From The Author: I would be the last to cast aspirsions on
 Mr. Gittinger doing his job, any more than I would do so on the
 Allan Memorial Institute Staff Members who chased an escaping
 Lauren G. up Mount Royal, in her attempts to escape the mind-
 butchery of Dr. Ewen Cameron, and, after dragging back, "shot her
 full of sedatives, attached electrodes to her temples, and gave
 her a dose of electroshock," or, even cast aspersions on those
 nice folks at the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City who
 were only doing their jobs--and if a few people get their minds
 destroyed, or children are burned alive in an agonizing, horrible
 death as a result of these people doing their jobs, who am I to
 complain, since things are OK for me...I'm eating regularly, TV
 has been pretty good this week, and I was only beaten by guys
 who looked a lot like Mounties, with a member of the Pima County
 Sheriff's Department looking on, a single time this week.]

  In order to put the efforts of our GodBlessAmerica SecretSpys
to crack open the secrets of the BadMindControllers, as well as
the minds of their own test subjects, into proper perspective,
we must take note that, according to Harold Wolff, a professor of
neurology and psychology at Cornell University,
  "The problem faced by the physician is quite similar to that
faced by the Communist interrogator."
  John Marks explains that,
  "Both would be trying to put their subject back *in*harmony*
with*his*environment*, whether the *problem* was headache or
*ideological*dissent*." and that,
  "He felt he could help his patients by putting them into an
isolated, disoriented state, from which it would be easier to
create new behavior patterning."

[EditWhore's Note: A quick perusal of the Mission Statements of
 a wide variety of groups, organizations and agencies, such as
 the Moonies, the Mafia, the CIA, the Political Party Machines,
 the American Psychiatric Association, our Mothers and Fathers,
 Teachers and Principals, were all trying to use 'Differential
 Amnesia/PsychicDriving' because they were from SelfDeclared
 Authority, and they were there to Help (TM) us...]

[Note From T. Arthur: I, personally, have had so much Help (TM)
 during my lifetime, that I have had to have reconstrutive surgery
 on my ButtHole six times.]


  Anyway...
  The *BadNews*, for those concerned about the 'potential' for
current InterNet/Computer Technology to be used in putting us all
in little digital boxes (for future herding into little digital
feeding pens, to eventually be heavily salted and spit out into 
snack-bowls on the counters of Reptilian Nazi bars, during Happy
For*Some*OfUsHour), is that the work towards eventually being
able to take polls of the *average* public mind, as well as making
the public mind *average*, has been going on at a hectic pace for
over a half-century, and that Computer/InterNet technology is
merely icing on the cake for the Controllers who already know
that the 'MineSweeper' game in Windows is even more fun when 
played in the MeatSpace of ThirdWorldCountries, using children
as playing pieces, to guess where the mines are.
("OK, Raoul, now take two steps to the left...")

  In the late thirties and early forties, a variety of university
educators/researchers were involved in the twin areas of devising
ways to measure/categorize the populace and influence/program the
citizenry, as well.
 General Donovan enlisted Harvard psychology professor H. Murray
to devise a testing program to help sort through the recruits
being rushed through the OSS. This systematic effort to evaluate
an individual's personality, in order to predict his future
behavior, would soon be used in large corporations, starting
with AT&T.
  Around the same time, Erich Fromm's 1930's questionnaire, which
had been devised to psychoanalyze German workers as being either
"authoritarian," "revolutionary," or "ambivalent," was changed
by Theodor Adorno to be used in a more politically correct manner,
measuring the "democratic personality," rather than measuring the
"revolutionary personality." (TroubleMakers, all of them...)

  The end-goal of this fixation on 'measuring,' of course, is
to weed out the misfits, and to recognize which individuals would
benefit from a 'reeducation' of their basic world view.

  Madison Avenue would fund much of the public-opinion survey
development used to guage and measure different categories of
the citizenry, while the Office of Radio Research at Columbia
University would emerge from the MindControlCloset as the Bureau
of Applied Social Research, with Cominterns' Lazersfeld turning
his attentions to psychoanalyzing American voting behavior.
  Naturally, the first American President elected with the Madison
Avenue and Social Research agencies in full control of the his
campaign, was a military man, former General, Dwight Eisenhower.

  By the time that MassMindControl techniques were sufficiently
developed to enable them to be used influence the election of our
political leaders, MKULTRA resident psychologist, John Gittinger,
had apparently learned enough about interrogation from his study
of the Spanish Inquisition, Dachau, Communist China, etc., to
create a unique system for assessing personality and predicting
future behavior.
  His 'Personality Assessment System' (PAS), has not only been
described as "the key to the whole clandestine business," but was
quickly integrated into government, education, military, cororate
and societal arenas as a means of determining the future, and the
positions to be held, by those who had been categorized by the
plethora of variations that were generated from Gittinger's work.

  One of the keys to Gittinger's PAS, was it's ability to reveal,
with "uncanny accuracy," how well people were able to "adapt their
social behavior to the demands of the culture they lived in."
  In essence, it was the perfect tool for weeding out the trouble
makers and misfits who were incapable or unwilling to 'adapt' to
whatever elements of society and culture which were deemed to
be 'important' by those in charge of developing the tests.

  Gittinger was funded under the cover of the Human Ecology Found-
ation, and CIA officials considered his work to be such a major
triumph in mind-control technology, that they moved his base of
operations to a CIA proprietary company, Psychology Assessment
Associates, in Washington.
  They provided psychological services for American corporations
overseas, with branch offices in Hong Kong, Europe, and throughout
the Far East, enabling them to influence the nature and types of
the 'personalities' that would move into positions of influence
in American firms around the world.

  The Human Ecology Foundation literally inundated the research
and educational community with hundreds of thousands of dollars
in grants to expand the range of the PAS to include a wide variety
of government, educational, corporate and social arenas, including
a grant to the Educational Testing Service, which prepares the
College Board Exams which decides who advances in the American
system of higher education.
  David Saunders, in charge of the ETS's research, studied the
correlation between brain (EEG) patterns and the College Board
Exams results, as well as helping Gittinger apply the system to
other countries and cultures.

  Gittinger, who was "building a unique database on all phases
of human behavior" (Gee, I wonder what for...), was able to do
a bang-up job in this area, as a result of the Human Ecology
Foundation being able, as the project funder of most research
in this area, to require the researchers to provide them with
the gathered data.
  John Marks tells us,
  "Gittinger collected Wechslers of businessmen, students, high-
priced fashion models, doctors, and just about any other discrete
group he could find a way to have tested. In huge numbers, the 
Wechslers came flowing in, 29,000 sets, in all, by early 1970's,
each one accompanied by biographic data."

  Gettinger particularly sought out results on deviant forms of
personality--people who had rejected the values of their society
or who had some hidden vice--since, although the PAS had become
the darling of the psychological research community, it's chief
purpose was to expand, into the public sector, the clandestine
art of "assessing and exploiting human personality and motivations
for ulterior purposes," as the CIA Inspector General said in 1963,
while giving high marks to the PAS meeting the "prime objectives"
of "control, exploitation, or neutralization," while recognizing
that "These objectives are innately anti-ethical rather than
therapeutic in their intent."
  As John Marks succinctly states, "In other words...the business
of the PAS, like that of the CIA, is control."

  Those who are particularly enamored of themselves, due to how
superiorly they performed on their College Entrance Exams, will
be happy to know that, if they find themselves unemployed, they
may well have a position waiting for them in Uruguay, where John
Gittinger took a personal hand in using the PAS to help the CIA
select members of an anti-terrorist police unit known for their
incredibly brutal methods, including torture.
  A former CIA psychologist states, "If you put a lot of money out
there, there are many people who are lacking the ethics even of
the CIA." He adds that the U.S. has become an extremely control-
oriented society from the classroom to politics to television
advertising.
  John Marks notes, "Spying and the PAS techniques are unique only
in that they are more systematic and secret."

  Another CIAMindControlJustifyingAngel, a Technical Services
Section (capable of writing *real* 'poison pen letters') scientist
speaks of the CIA 'behavioral research' being, as Marks describes
it, "a logical extension of the efforts of American psychologists,
psychiatrists,and sociologists to change behavior," with their
motivation being to "manipulate their subjects in trying to make
mentally disturbed people well, in turning criminals into law-
abiding citizens, and in pushing poor people to get off welfare."
  The CIAMindControlJustifyingAngel cites these as examples of 
"behavior control modification for socially acceptable reasons
which...change from time to time" in regard to the public's 
attitude.
  What the scientist fails to mention, is that virtually all of
the research and experimentation in the above areas has resulted
from the work being funded and directed by secret government
agencies who *direct* the work into these areas.
 (e.g. - Psychedelic therapy being wholly instigated by the CIA
  and Military Intelligence, until they pulled the plug overnight,
  after their own needs had been met, at which time all of the
  doctors, patients and research subjects could GoFuckThemselves!)

  Not only are minimum-wage employees at the local Circle-K
convenience store chosen by CIA proxy, but also an amazing number
of current research subjects in experiments which, on the surface,
seem to be perfectly legitimate.
  A great deal of this mind-control experimentation has been done 
under the guise of research on alcoholism and mental illness. 
  For instance, one of the first external applications of John
Gittinger's CIA/PAS work was the Hoffer-Osmond Diagnostic Test
for Schizophrenia.

  Hoffer and Osmond had received a lot of CIA funding to do work
with alcoholics, who were good subjects for mind-control work, as
their was no real 'treatment' involved, which would only interfere
with the true purposes of the experiments and research.
  Once the PAS made it possible for the CIA to efficiently and
effectively test subjects for their suitability for MKULTRA mind-
control work, the Hoffer-Osmond Diagnostic Test was miraculously 
born, wherein a wide range of people who would have ordinarily
received varying diagnoses, were suddenly classified under the
umbrella of Schizophrenia, which, lo and behold, CIA/Rockerfeller
Foundation grantee physicians had discovered could be 'treated'
with OrthoMolecular (Vitamin) Therapy, which, conveniently, would
also not interfere with the methods and goals of the current mind-
control experiments, since the MKULTRA was no longer interested
in finding out the potential of mind-control techniques dependent
on the subjects being whacked-out on heavy drugs.

  In the end, we are left with a disturbing picture of American
Military and Government Secret Intelligence Agencies being the
driving force behind the instigation of almost all modern research
into a wide variety of Scientific Arenas which are coordinated
under the universal umbrella of the Controllers, the goal being
to have access to the information and tools necessary to herd us
all into categories from which we can then be spit out into the
system into a predesignated position in society, or just plain
spit out...

  ou remember the BadNazis, don't you? ou know, the ones who
were sentenced to be hung at the Nuremberg trials, for engaging
in research that U.S. Military Intelligence immediately grabbed,
in order to 'study'?
  Well, it turns out that many of the BadNazis were magically
turned into GoodNazis, by the waving of a DeNazification Wand.
  And who was 'waving' this DeNazification Wand?
  The UsualSuspects, of course...

  Dr. Ewen Cameron, the man who butchered the minds of women who
were suffering from nothing more than menopause or post-partum
depression, was a DeNazification WandWaver.
  A variety of Commintern's I.S.P. were involved in deciding who
got WavedAt with the DeNazification Wands, and who got Whacked
by them, including I.S.P.'s Marcuse, Neumann and Kirchheimer,
who wrote the Denazification Guide.
  Most amazingly of all, many of those chosen as being suitable
candidates for DeNazification, were hand-picked for eligibility
for entry into the U.S. under new identities, as part of Project
PaperClip, by one of the main BumBuddies of the AngelOfDeath,
Josef Mengeles.

[Note from T. Arthur: Although the actual whereabouts of the 
 AngelOfDeath have remained a matter of speculation and debate
 over the years, I have reason to believe, as a result of the
 information I received from attaching a 9V battery to the
 electrodes implanted in the skull of yet another Tarantula
 who emerged from under my computer desk, scant minutes ago,
 that Dr. Mengeles is currently living next door to me, with
 his rent being paid by the RCMP and the CIA.
 Those who wish to verify this information for themselves will
 be able to locate the Tarantula in Tucson, outside of the 
 mayor's home, in about an hour.]

  While the Controllers continue to yank the mental and emotional
chains of the general public, through use of OfficiallyRecognized
BadGuys, and the 4HorseMen, etc., they seem to have absolutely no
qualms about importing the Monsters into America and setting them
up with the best of what the country has to offer, in order to
further government interest in activities which have resulted
in death sentences to those on the 'losing' end of various wars,
as well as giving high-level positions to those capable of helping
the GoodGuys to tweak the MindControl technology used by the Bad
Guys, to exercise BadSocialControl, so that the GoodGuys can use
that same technology to exercise GoodSocialControl.

[I've got to go now. I just finished filling out the application
 for my Fresh Values Card, from Smith's, which gives me a nickle
 off on a can of beans for informing them which of my neighbors
 have Jewish blood coursing through their veins. (ou need to turn
 in five Jews, and I only know three, so I fudged on a couple of
 the entries...) - T. Arthur]

Jews - Smoke 'em if you got 'em...




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSqncrs@aol.com
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 00:42:12 -0700 (PDT)
To: Skoitch@aol.com
Subject: Re: W.A.Y.
Message-ID: <62deae62.35b98c1a@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


In a message dated 7/24/98 10:12:55 AM Central Daylight Time,
0_rcummi@funrsc.fairfield.edu writes:

<< > WHY CANT I FIND ANY WHITE AMERICAN YOUTH ALBUMS ANYWHERE?   
 > 
 > 
 
 Reason 1:  You're from AOL
 Reason 2:  You don't know where the caps lock key is
 Reason 3:  You're looking on the cypherpunks list for music.
 Reason 4:  You're from AOL >>

Tee, hee hee.

I didn't find it on Cypherpunks (I didn't even check Cypherpunks for it :-) ),
it's from some media article.  It described a incident that happened when
someone complained about someone elses loud music -

<< Patrol officers had 
 to bang on Joseph W. Wedemeyer's door for about 
 15 minutes before getting his attention, Capt. Robert 
 Linardi said. They charged him with disorderly conduct.
 
 The next afternoon, Linardi said, Wedemeyer confronted 
 his neighbor on the street. Linardi said Wedemeyer, 
 who is white, called the neighbor, who is black, a 
 racial epithet and said, "I'm going to kill you." ... >>

That's the kind of music you're talking about, 'right'?

I heard they were after Tom('s) DeLay(ed Resignation), but they missed.
Direct hits to his brains and his heart, though!  ;-)

Stan




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC 
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 09:07:15 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Freddy Does Teleco
Message-ID: <009C9B34.4F0CB5A0.2@west.cscwc.pima.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


     _________________________________________________________________
   
     * To: Cypherpunks 
     * Subject: [Fwd: Tarantula Day Afternoon - SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY
       DRUGS!!!]
     * From: Frederick Burroughs 
     _________________________________________________________________


Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC wrote:

>   On the other hand, the recent proliferation of rattlesnakes and
> tarantulas showing up, out of the blue, on the doorstep of the
> abode in which I am currently residing, as well as underneath the
> desk from which I am currently canning the small squares of pink,
> digital flesh being marketed on the CypherPunks Disturbed Male
> LISP, leads me to believe that, unless I am picking up visions
> of pre-release Stephen King novels through the fillings in my
> teeth, then some part of what I am writing must be true enough
> to be pissing *someone* off...

The abundance of black widow spiders, timber rattlers and copperheads here in
the yeastern US doesn't bother me. It's the incessant patterned interference
displayed on the TV, the fact that all the light fixtures and wall sockets are
loose and missing screws, and all my new neighbors are young retirees wearing
dark blue baseball caps (how'd they find this god forsaken snake pit?), that
brother me so much.

It's queer how much telephone maintenance is required in this rural setting. If
there's as much maintenance in the rest of the service area as there is around
my residence and place of employment, then why is the line quality so poor
(constant clicks, echoes and tone changes)? Granted most of these telephone
maintenance guys aren't doing anything when I pass them, they're all wearing
dark glasses and seem to be listening for something in their air conditioned
utility vans.
     _________________________________________________________________

Freddy,
  I find it interesting that shortly after taking up residence at a
lady friend's house in Tucson, her phone went out and had to be 'fixed'
by the local Teleco.
 Naturally, the guy who came to 'fix' the phone was, as you point out,
wearing dark glasses, and, after messing with the box on the side of
the house, declared that the problem was at the Teleco end, and that
the phone would work after he returned downtown to finish 'fixing' the
problem.
  Also interesting is the fact that there are two other residences which
have feeds on the same line, and the only one that had a 'problem' was
the one I am at.
  I took the liberty of popping open the Teleco box on the side of the
house, and found a wiring scheme which is very creative in the way
that it routes the transmissions.

Tojohoto
p.s. - Have you got the 10 kilos of heroin ready to ship?






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC 
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 11:04:11 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Beans - SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS!!!
Message-ID: <009C9B44.962BDA00.5@west.cscwc.pima.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Beans, Beans, They're Good For The Heart - SAHMD!!!
___________________________________________________

  But they are very, very bad for the lungs.

  By popular request, as a result of a plethora of requests being
forwarded to me by , even though I had no idea
that so many subscribers to the CypherPunks list were aware of
the true existence of the DevNullServer, I will expand a bit on
the simplicity of the on-site creation of biochemical substances
with the capacity to neutralize ExcessivelyAcidicAuthoritarians.

  Reading the literature on the production of such biochemical 
agents as Rincin, etc., one is struck by the need to go to great
lengths to prevent being struck by the end-results of one's own
experimentation in the creation of such substances.
  The need for outrageously complex security precautions in the
preparation of biochemical agents makes the task prohibitive for
those with limited access to funds and/or proper tools for the
job. Or so it would seem...

  The fact of the matter is, if one pays close attention to the
methods and processes of producing these agents, it quickly becomes
apparent that eliminating the need for the transporting of these
substances thereby eliminates much of the need for expensive and
time-consuming safeguards against self-exposure to these deadly
agents.
  In effect, if one can develop a mechanism to produce these
biochemical agents at the site at which one wishes them to be
released, then he or she can be relaxing on a beach at Honolulu
while the little spores are busy taking care of business.

  MadBombers use timing mechanisms which delay the triggering of
their products until they have had time to start making tracks
toward the car that their government coconspirators have taken
the rear license-plate off of.
  The spawning process of biochemical agents is a natural trigger-
delay system which can be used to effectively create the desired
substances while one is using the time to beat feat to an exotic
island paradise.
  Spawning biochemical agents where 'a little goes a long way,' means
that, once the mechanism kicks in, the results will be dramatic and
far-reaching.

  Another advantage of on-site production is that dogs which are 
trained to recognize the scent of biochemical agents are unlikely
to be trained to set off barking-flags over the scent of the basic
ingredients used to create those substances.

  The down-side, of course, is that one cannot be certain that the
desired substance will not be created/disseminated at a time when
a local grade-school class is visiting the site as part of an LEA
propagand exercise.
  However, if one is capable of taking the position that a government
organization which consciously places a day-care center in a federal
building known to be a soft-target for anti-government radicals, the 
responsibilty for their deaths falls on the government, then c'est la
vie...

  Personally, I am of the opinion that any goverment that has no qualms
about letting hundreds of poor, black men suffer the vile consequences
of untreated syphilus, burning out the brains of average citizens to
further the cause of mind-control research, expose unwitting citizens
to radiation and hallucinogenic experiments without their consent, ad
infinituum, can pretty much go fuck themselves if they attempt to
decry those who attack them as Monsters, as a result of so-called
innocents suffering as a result of the government's complacency and
audacity in deeming themselves above retribution by those they are in
the habit of so casually oppressing and persecuting.

  Anyone who wishes to attend the grand spectacle of the RCMP's
Musical Ride, during the celebration of their 150th anniversary of
keeping the average citizen from rising up against the rich and
powerful, is welcome to do so.
  However, if they find their ass getting scorched as a result of
the efforts of those being fucked in the ass by Dudley DoWrong taking
it upon themselves to throw a serious fuck back towards whence it
came, they should refrain from whining.

  Pardon me for sounding just a tad 'callous,' but I have had the
opportunity to peruse private emails and memos between various
members of Canada's Finest, and I find it rather disgusting that
they can so casually discuss the probability of their attempts to
pressure a mentally disabled person into 'cracking' resulting in
HimOrHer committing physical destruction on the local schoolchildren
(based on HisOrHer publication of a 'KILL THE CHILDREN!!!' Bienfait
Nutly News Special), so that they will be able to step in as the
GoodGuys who bring HimOrHer to Justice (TM), without suffering any
personal losses in the process.
  Skeptical? Ask the RCMP to provide you with a copy of the files on
the computer which they stole from me, after monitoring my website
and emails, which made it clear that my computer fulfilled an essential
role in researching my medical condition, and maintaining effective
treatment for it. Once you receive the files, read one that is named
'warning.sog,' in which Bianca forwards a file purloined from a
Canadian government computer system, which contains a discussion as
to the desirability of putting pressure on me at a time when I am
short on my medications. Do a text search on a file which suggests
that, due to my Tourette Syndrome, it is inadvisable for LEA's to
work me over for merely shouting and cursing, but that if I begin
waving my arms around, they can consider themselves in danger, and
do anything they desire to my sorry ass.

  Think I'm kidding?
  Thanks to the incredible ignorance of LEA's who believe that they
are free to monitor the communications of the citizenry, while the
reverse is illegal and unacceptable, I was afforded the opportunity
to BeatFeet across the U.S. border the day before the Mounties appeared
on my doorstep to steal my computers as punishment for speaking the
Truth, and bury backup copies of my complete hard drive, which contain
information which makes the above 'allegations' seem trite, by
comparison.
  What I find hilarious is that copies of extremely culpatory and
embarassing files/emails were forwarded to a variety of those from
who they originated, yet monitoring of the ongoing investigation
in this regard indicates that the FuckWads are as conscientious
about fucking over the internal investigators as they are about
fucking over the citizenry.
  Equally hilarious is the fact that whoever is in charge of running
the Official RCMP WebSite seems to be unaware that any directory
without an 'index.html' file, when accessed, gives the user access
to *all* of the files in the directory, which makes them a very,
very bad place to wittingly or unwittingly store sensitive files.

  In case you haven't already guessed, I am currently drunk, onery
and mean.
  Any tarantula that bites me is in for a big surprise...




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC 
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 11:05:21 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: A Thousand Points Of Fight
Message-ID: <009C9B44.CC4026A0.7@west.cscwc.pima.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



   Breakthrough Texts 
   Leaderless Resistance
   An Essay by Louis Beam
   
     
     
     "Leaderless Resistance" -- Part One
     
     [IMAGE] The concept of leaderless resistance was proposed by Col.
     Ulius Louis Amoss, who was the founder of International Service of
     Information Incorporated, located in Baltimore, Maryland. Col. Amoss
     died more than 15 years ago, but during his life he was a tireless
     opponent of Communism, as well as a skilled intelligence officer.
     [INLINE] Col. Amoss first wrote of leaderless resistance on April
     17, 1962. His theories of organization were primarily directed
     against the threat of eventual Communist takeover in the United
     States. The present writer, with the benefit of having lived many
     years beyond Col. Amoss, has taken his theories and expounded on
     them.
     [INLINE] Col. Amoss feared the Communists. This author fears the
     federal government. Communism now represents a threat to no one in
     the United States, while federal tyranny represents a threat to
     EVERYONE. The writer has joyfully lived long enough to see the dying
     breaths of Communism, but may unhappily remain long enough to see
     the last dying gasps of freedom in America.
     [INLINE] In the hope that, somehow, America can still produce the
     brave sons and daughters necessary to fight off ever-increasing
     persecution and oppression, this essay is offered. Frankly, it is
     too close to call at this point. Those who love liberty, and believe
     in freedom enough to fight for it, are rare today; but within the
     bosom of every once great nation, there remains secreted the pearls
     of former greatness.
     [INLINE] They are there. I have looked into their sparkling eyes;
     sharing a brief moment in time with them as I passed through this
     life. Relished their friendship, endured their pain, and they mine.
     We are a band of brothers native to the soil, gaining strength one
     from another as we have rushed headlong into battle that all the
     weaker, timid men say we can not win. Perhaps not... but then again,
     perhaps we can. It's not over till the last freedom fighter is
     buried or imprisoned, or the same happens to those who would destroy
     their liberty.
     [INLINE] Barring any cataclysmic events, the struggle will yet go on
     for years. The passage of time will make it clear to even the more
     slow among us that the government is the foremost threat to the life
     and liberty of the folk. The government will no doubt make today's
     oppressiveness look like grade school work compared to what they
     have planned in the future. Meanwhile, there are those of us who
     continue to hope that somehow the few can do what the many have not.
     [INLINE] We are cognizant that before things get better they will
     certainly get worse as government shows a willingness to use ever
     more severe police state measures against dissidents. This changing
     situation makes it clear that those who oppose state repression must
     be prepared to alter, adapt, and modify their behavior, strategy,
     and tactics as circumstances warrant. Failure to consider new
     methods and implement them as necessary will make the government's
     efforts at suppression uncomplicated. It is the duty of every
     patriot to make the tyrant's life miserable. When one fails to do so
     he not only fails himself, but his people.
     [INLINE] With this in mind, current methods of resistance to tyranny
     employed by those who love our race, culture, and heritage must pass
     a litmus test of soundness. Methods must be objectively measured as
     to their effectiveness, as well as to whether they make the
     government's intention of repression more possible or more
     difficult. Those not working to aid our objectives must be
     discarded, or the government benefits from our failure to do so.
     [INLINE] As honest men who have banded together into groups or
     associations of a political or religious nature are falsely labeled
     "domestic terrorists" or "cultists" and suppressed, it will become
     necessary to consider other methods of organization, or as the case
     may very well call for: non- organization.
     [INLINE] One should keep in mind that it is not in the government's
     interest to eliminate all groups. Some few must remain in order to
     perpetuate the smoke and mirrors for the masses that America is a
     "free democratic country" where dissent is allowed. Most
     organizations, however, that possess the potential for effective
     resistance will not be allowed to continue. Anyone who is so naive
     as to believe the most powerful government on earth will not crush
     any who pose a real threat to that power, should not be active, but
     rather at home studying political history.
     [INLINE] The question as to who is to be left alone and who is not,
     will be answered by how groups and individuals deal with several
     factors such as: avoidance of conspiracy plots, rejection of
     feebleminded malcontents, insistence upon quality of the
     participants, avoidance of all contact with the front men for the
     federals - the news media - and, finally, camouflage (which can be
     defined as the ability to blend in the public's eye the more
     committed groups of resistance with mainstream "kosher" associations
     that are generally seen as harmless).
     [INLINE] Primarily though, whether any organization is allowed to
     continue in the future will be a matter of how big a threat a group
     represents. Not a threat in terms of armed might or political
     ability, for there is none of either for the present, but rather,
     threat in terms of potentiality. It is potential the federals fear
     most. Whether that potential exists in an individual or group is
     incidental. The federals measure potential threat in terms of what
     might happen given a situation conducive to action on the part of a
     resistive organization or individual. Accurate intelligence
     gathering allows them to assess the potential. Showing one's hand
     before the bets are made is a sure way to lose.
     [INLINE] The movement for freedom is rapidly approaching the point
     where, for many people, the option of belonging to a group will be
     non-existent. For others, group membership will be a viable option
     for only the immediate future. Eventually, and perhaps much sooner
     than most believe possible, the price paid for membership will
     exceed any perceived benefit. But for now, some of the groups that
     do exist often serve a useful purpose either for the newcomer who
     can be indoctrinated into the ideology of the struggle, or for
     generating positive propaganda to reach potential freedom fighters.
     It is sure that, for the most part, this struggle is rapidly
     becoming a matter of individual action, each of its participants
     making a private decision in the quietness of his heart to resist:
     to resist by any means necessary.
     [INLINE] It is hard to know what others will do, for no man truly
     knows another man's heart. It is enough to know what one himself
     will do. A great teacher once said "know thyself." Few men really
     do, but let each of us promise ourselves not to go quietly to the
     fate our would-be masters have planned.
     [INLINE] The concept of leaderless resistance is nothing less than a
     fundamental departure in theories of organization. The orthodox
     scheme of organization is diagrammatically represented by the
     pyramid, with the mass at the bottom and the leader at the top. This
     fundamental of organization is to be seen not only in armies, which
     are, of course, the best illustration of the pyramid structure, with
     the mass of soldiery (the privates) at the bottom responsible to
     corporals; who are in turn responsible to sergeants, and so on up
     the entire chain of command to the generals at the top. But the same
     structure is seen in corporations, ladies' garden clubs, and in our
     political system itself. This orthodox "pyramid" scheme of
     organization is to be seen basically in all existing political,
     social, and religious structures in the world today, from the
     Federal government to the Roman Catholic Church.
     [INLINE] The Constitution of the United States, in the wisdom of the
     Founders, tried to sublimate the essential dictatorial nature
     pyramidal organization by dividing authority into three: executive,
     legislative, and judicial. But the pyramid remains essentially
     untouched.
     [INLINE] This scheme of organization, the pyramid, is not only
     useless, but extremely dangerous for the participants when it is
     utilized in a resistance movement against state tyranny. Especially
     is this so in technologically advanced societies where electronic
     surveillance can often penetrate the structure, thus revealing its
     chain of command. Experience has revealed over and over again that
     anti-state political organizations utilizing this method of command
     and control are easy prey for government infiltration, entrapment,
     and destruction of the personnel involved. This has been seen
     repeatedly in the United States where pro-government infiltrators or
     agent provocateurs weasel their way into patriotic groups and
     destroy them from within.
     [INLINE] In the pyramid form of organization, an infiltrator can
     destroy anything which is beneath his level of infiltration, and
     often those above him as well. If the traitor has infiltrated at the
     top, then the entire organization from the top down is compromised
     and may be traduced at will.
     
     
     "Leaderless Resistance" -- Part Two
     
     [IMAGE] A recent example of the cell system taken from the left wing
     of politics are the Communists. The Communists, in order to get
     around the obvious problems involved in pyramidal organization,
     developed to an art the cell system. They had numerous independent
     cells which operated completely isolated from one another and
     particularly with no knowledge of each other, but were orchestrated
     together by a central headquarters. For instance, during WWII, in
     Washington, it is known that there were at least six secret
     Communist cells operating at high levels in the United States
     government (plus all the open Communists who were protected and
     promoted by President Roosevelt), however, only one of the cells was
     rooted out and destroyed. How many more actually were operating, no
     one can say for sure.
     [INLINE] The Communist cells which operated in the U.S. until late
     1991 under Soviet control could have at their command a leader who
     held a social position which appeared to be very lowly. He could be,
     for example, a busboy in a restaurant, but in reality a colonel or a
     general in the Soviet Secret Service, the KGB. Under him could be a
     number of cells, and a person active in one cell would almost never
     have knowledge of individuals who were active in other cells; in
     fact, the members of the other cells would be supporting that cell
     which was under attack and ordinarily would lend very strong support
     to it in many ways. This is at least part of the reason, no doubt,
     that whenever in the past Communists were attacked in this country,
     support for them sprang up in many unexpected places.
     [INLINE] The effective and efficient operation of a cell system
     after the Communist model is, of course, dependent upon central
     direction, which means impressive organization, funding from the
     top, and outside support, all of which the Communists had.
     Obviously, American patriots have none of these things at the top or
     anywhere else, and so an effective cell organization based upon the
     Soviet system of operation is impossible.
     [INLINE] Two things become clear from the above discussion. First,
     that the pyramid form of organization can be penetrated quite easily
     and it thus is not a sound method of organization in situations
     where the government has the resources and desire to penetrate the
     structure, which is the situation in this country. Secondly, that
     the normal qualifications for the cell structure based upon the Red
     model does not exist in the U.S. for patriots. This understood, the
     question arises "What method is left for those resisting state
     tyranny?"
     [INLINE] The answer comes from Col. Amoss who proposed the "Phantom
     Cell" mode of organization which he described as Leaderless
     Resistance. A system of organization that is based upon the cell
     organization, but does not have any central control or direction,
     that is in fact almost identical to the methods used by the
     committees of correspondence during the American Revolution.
     Utilizing the Leaderless Resistance concept, all individuals and
     groups operate independently of each other, and never report to a
     central headquarters or single leader for direction or instruction,
     as would those who belong to a typical pyramid organization.
     [INLINE] At first glance, such a form of organization seems
     unrealistic, primarily because there appears to be no organization.
     The natural question thus arises as to how are the "Phantom Cells"
     and individuals to cooperate with each other when there is no
     inter-communication or central direction?
     [INLINE] The answer to this question is that participants in a
     program of leaderless resistance through "Phantom Cell" or
     individual action must know exactly what they are doing and how to
     do it. It becomes the responsibility of the individual to acquire
     the necessary skills and information as to what is to be done. This
     is by no means as impractical as it appears, because it is certainly
     true that in any movement all persons involved have the same general
     outlook, are acquainted with the same philosophy, and generally
     react to given situations in similar ways. The previous history of
     the committees of correspondence during the American Revolution
     shows this to be true.
     [INLINE] Since the entire purpose of leaderless resistance is to
     defeat state tyranny (at least in so far as this essay is
     concerned), all members of phantom cells or individuals will tend to
     react to objective events in the same way through usual tactics of
     resistance. Organs of information distribution such as newspapers,
     leaflets, computers, etc., which are widely available to all, keep
     each person informed of events, allowing for a planned response that
     will take many variations. No one need issue an order to anyone.
     Those idealists truly committed to the cause of freedom will act
     when they feel the time is ripe, or will take their cue from others
     who precede them. While it is true that much could be said against
     this kind of structure as a method of resistance, it must be kept in
     mind that leaderless resistance is a child of necessity. The
     alternatives to it have been shown to be unworkable or impractical.
     Leaderless resistance has worked before in the American Revolution,
     and if the truly committed put it to use themselves, it will work
     now.
     [INLINE] It goes almost without saying that Leaderless Resistance
     leads to very small or even one-man cells of resistance. Those who
     join organizations to play "let's pretend" or who are "groupies"
     will quickly be weeded out. While for those who are serious about
     their opposition to federal despotism, this is exactly what is
     desired.
     [INLINE] From the point of view of tyrants and would-be potentates
     in the federal bureaucracy and police agencies, nothing is more
     desirable than that those who oppose them be UNIFIED in their
     command structure, and that EVERY person who opposes them belong to
     a pyramid style group. Such groups and organizations are easy to
     kill. Especially in light of the fact that the Justice (sic)
     Department promised in 1987 that there would never be another group
     to oppose them that they did not have at least one informer in!
     These federal "friends of government" are ZOG or ADL intelligence
     agents. They gather information that can be used at the whim of a
     federal D.A. to prosecute. The line of battle has been drawn.
     [INLINE] Patriots are REQUIRED, therefore, to make a conscious
     decision to either aid the government in its illegal spying (by
     continuing with old methods of organization and resistance), or to
     make the enemy's job more difficult by implementing effective
     countermeasures.
     [INLINE] Now there will, no doubt, be mentally handicapped people
     out there who will state emphatically in their best red, white, and
     blue voice, while standing at a podium with an American flag draped
     in the background and a lone eagle soaring in the sky above, that,
     "So what if the government is spying? We are not violating any
     laws." Such crippled thinking by any serious person is the best
     example that there is a need for special education classes. The
     person making such a statement is totally out of contact with
     political reality in this country, and unfit for leadership of
     anything more than a dog sled in the Alaskan wilderness. The old
     "Born on the Fourth of July" mentality that has influenced so much
     of the Aryan-American Patriot's thinking in the past will not save
     him from the government in the future. "Reeducation" for
     non-thinkers of this kind will take place in the federal prison
     system where there are no flags or eagles, but an abundance of men
     who were "not violating any laws.".
     [INLINE] Most groups who "unify" their disparate associates into a
     single structure have short political lives. Therefore, those
     movement leaders constantly calling for unity of organization,
     rather than the desirable Unity of Purpose, usually fall into one of
     three categories:
    1. They may not be sound political tacticians, but rather, just
       committed men who feel unity would help their cause, while not
       realizing that the government would greatly benefit from such
       efforts. The Federal objective, to imprison or destroy all who
       oppose them, is made easier in pyramid organizations.
       
    2. Or, perhaps, they do not fully understand the struggle they are
       involved in, and that the government they oppose has declared a
       state of war against those fighting for faith, folk, freedom,
       property and constitutional liberty. Those in power will use any
       means to rid themselves of opposition.
       
    3. The third class calling for unity, and let us hope this is the
       minority of the three, are men more desirous of the supposed power
       that a large organization would bestow, than of actually achieving
       their stated purpose.
       
     [INLINE] Conversely, the LAST thing federal snoops want, if they had
     any choice in the matter, is a thousand different small phantom
     cells opposing them. It is easy to see why. Such a situation is an
     intelligence nightmare for a government intent upon knowing
     everything they possibly can about those who oppose them. The
     Federals, able to amass overwhelming strength of numbers, manpower,
     resources, intelligence gathering, and capability at any given time,
     need only a focal point to direct their anger [ie Waco]. A single
     penetration of a pyramid style organization can lead to the
     destruction of the whole. Whereas, leaderless resistance presents no
     single opportunity for the Federals to destroy a significant portion
     of the resistance.
     [INLINE] With the announcement of the Department of Justice (sic)
     that 300 FBI agents formerly assigned to watching Soviet spies in
     the U.S. (domestic counter-intelligence) are now to be used to
     "combat crime," the federal government is preparing the way for a
     major assault upon those persons opposed to their policies. Many
     anti-government groups dedicated to the preservation of the America
     of our Forefathers can expect shortly to feel the brunt of a new
     federal assault upon liberty.
     [INLINE] It is clear, therefore, that it is time to rethink
     traditional strategy and tactics when it comes to opposing state
     tyranny, where the rights now accepted by most as being inalienable
     will disappear. Let the coming night be filled with a thousand
     points of resistance. Like the fog which forms when conditions are
     right, and disappears when they are not, so must the resistance to
     tyranny be.
     
     Leaderless Resistance first appeared in The Seditionist in 1992. The
     author, Louis Beam, is one of the most respected racialist leaders
     in the world (within racialist circles, that is), and has
     established his own homepage to distribute his work.
       _______________________________________________________________
     
     
     
     Texts Archive: Breakthrough Texts 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED/EUREKA! 
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 07:47:55 -0700 (PDT)
To: All Eureka/Stuffed Subscribers: ;
Subject: My mom is a stripper/Sporty Spice killed my dog
Message-ID: <19980725132052.8397.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Welcome to  today's  issue of Stuffed. To read it you should
click on the URL below.  If it is not made clickable by your
email program  you will need to  use your mouse to highlight
the line,  copy it and then paste it into your browser (then
press Return).

http://stuffed.net/98/7/25/

If you  have an email program that can display web pages you
will find today's front cover should have already been disp-
layed and can be clicked on to take you straight to Stuffed.

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
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instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Kirk Fort" 
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 10:38:56 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: my thoughts for this list
Message-ID: <01bdb7f2$32c9da60$f0763bcf@interpath.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I have been getting this list for a few days. I subscribed to this list in
the hopes I could learn something about crypto, in particular the GPG
project.  So far I have seen pretty much nothing about crypto or anything a
person who is not high or crazy could understand.  This list is so messed up
its hillarious.  I didn't want to add to the string of useless messages, but
it doesn't look like anyone cares anyway.  I will be monitoring the list for
any signs of intelligent conversation.

kfort






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: edd@spdy.com
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 19:03:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Win the Grand Prize 10 day trip to Hawaii....Enter the drawing!
Message-ID: <600.114268.419843@user932029.nessor.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Win the Grand Prize 10 day trip to Hawaii....Enter the drawing!!!!. 

Hundreds of valuable prizes will be awarded to the winners of ourexciting drawing.

And one lucky winner will receive a 10-day Hawaiian vacation for two!

It costs nothing to enter. To enter, simply become a preferred e-mailsubscriber to our FREE financial information newsletter. A new winner will be selected everyday! 
There is absolutely no cost to you. 

Receive a FREE 12-month subscription to this informative financial 
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The last company profiled was up 92% in one week! 

You must be at least 18 years old to enter.

To enter the drawing go to
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HOT STOCK UPDATE

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Freedom Rock Partners has been paid 50,000 shares of Prime Marketing, Inc. stock as a fee to prepare this report. For more info please see ourdisclaimerhttp://www.eopop.com/dd/disclaimer.htm

Please fill out the form to receive a 12-month free subscription to
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NOTE: 
For those on the Internet who do not want to receive exciting messages
such as this.....to be removed from our mailing list and our affiliate lists 
go to:edd@spdy.comand type remove.

*We strive to comply with all state and federal laws and to send ads onlyto interested parties.


*This ad is not intended for nor do we knowingly send to Washington Stateresidents. 
* Responding to the " return address & quot; will  NOT have your name removed. 

Win the Grand Prize 10 day trip to Hawaii....Enter the drawing!!!!. 

Hundreds of valuable prizes will be awarded to the winners of ourexciting drawing.

And one lucky winner will receive a 10-day Hawaiian vacation for two!

It costs nothing to enter. To enter, simply become a preferred e-mailsubscriber to our FREE financial information newsletter. A new winner will be selected everyday! 
There is absolutely no cost to you. 

Receive a FREE 12-month subscription to this informative financial 
information newsletter. You'll receive breaking news on all companies
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The last company profiled was up 92% in one week! 

You must be at least 18 years old to enter.

To enter the drawing go to
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HOT STOCK UPDATE

Prime Marketing Inc. (OTC BB-PMMI 1.25) We are hearing that the company has a major order pending with a well-known supermarket chain. Giant's Stadium has just increased their weekly order by 50% for their Sicilian Crust Pizza pies.
We are told that the company is getting ready to launch a national franchise chain with a unique concept in the restaurant industry.
We look for the stock to trade back to the $4.50 & sp; 5.50 level.
Freedom Rock Partners has been paid 50,000 shares of Prime Marketing, Inc. stock as a fee to prepare this report. For more info please see ourdisclaimerhttp://www.eopop.com/dd/disclaimer.htm

Please fill out the form to receive a 12-month free subscription to
our financial information newsletter absolutely free. Go tohttp://www.eopop.com/dd/guest_book.htm

NOTE: 
For those on the Internet who do not want to receive exciting messages
such as this.....to be removed from our mailing list and our affiliate lists 
go to:edd@spdy.comand type remove.

*We strive to comply with all state and federal laws and to send ads onlyto interested parties.


*This ad is not intended for nor do we knowingly send to Washington Stateresidents. 
* Responding to the " return address & quot; will  NOT have your name removed. 

Win the Grand Prize 10 day trip to Hawaii....Enter the drawing!!!!. 

Hundreds of valuable prizes will be awarded to the winners of ourexciting drawing.

And one lucky winner will receive a 10-day Hawaiian vacation for two!

It costs nothing to enter. To enter, simply become a preferred e-mailsubscriber to our FREE financial information newsletter. A new winner will be selected everyday! 
There is absolutely no cost to you. 

Receive a FREE 12-month subscription to this informative financial 
information newsletter. You'll receive breaking news on all companies
currently profiled as well as all future profiles as soon as they arereleased. 
The last company profiled was up 92% in one week! 

You must be at least 18 years old to enter.

To enter the drawing go to
http://www.eopop.com/dd/guest_book.htm

HOT STOCK UPDATE

Prime Marketing Inc. (OTC BB-PMMI 1.25) We are hearing that the company has a major order pending with a well-known supermarket chain. Giant's Stadium has just increased their weekly order by 50% for their Sicilian Crust Pizza pies.
We are told that the company is getting ready to launch a national franchise chain with a unique concept in the restaurant industry.
We look for the stock to trade back to the $4.50 & sp; 5.50 level.
Freedom Rock Partners has been paid 50,000 shares of Prime Marketing, Inc. stock as a fee to prepare this report. For more info please see ourdisclaimerhttp://www.eopop.com/dd/disclaimer.htm

Please fill out the form to receive a 12-month free subscription to
our financial information newsletter absolutely free. Go tohttp://www.eopop.com/dd/guest_book.htm

NOTE: 
For those on the Internet who do not want to receive exciting messages
such as this.....to be removed from our mailing list and our affiliate lists 
go to:edd@spdy.comand type remove.

*We strive to comply with all state and federal laws and to send ads onlyto interested parties.


*This ad is not intended for nor do we knowingly send to Washington Stateresidents. 
* Responding to the " return address & quot; will  NOT have your name removed. 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Dutra de Lacerda 
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 11:53:23 -0700 (PDT)
To: "kryz" 
Subject: Re: Larry King
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <4.0.1.19980725194807.00f85580@mail2.ip.pt>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At Saturday, you wrote:
>Some whisper that Larry King is the incarnation of the frog, mentioned in
>the book Some Like It Green, written by William Chutov.
>Can this be true? I have bad dreams about it.
>Please, help me out!

Wrong assumption. 
Frogs are no aliens.
Ergo IT (Larry) is no frog.

Dulac.




 - - - 
Antonio Manuel Melo de Carvalho Dutra de Lacerda
Morada		: Rua Rodrigues Cabrilho, 5 - 5 Esq.
		  1400 Lisboa, PORTUGAL
Telefone	: +351-(1)-3013579
FAX & BBS	: +351-(1)-3021098




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StanSqncrs@aol.com
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 17:42:22 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: my thoughts for this list
Message-ID: <8ef13d67.35ba7b33@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


In a message dated 7/25/98 6:45:41 PM Central Daylight Time,
k4t@beachaccess.com writes:

<< I have been getting this list for a few days. I subscribed to this list in
 the hopes I could learn something about crypto, in particular the GPG
 project.  So far I have seen pretty much nothing about crypto or anything a
 person who is not high or crazy could understand. >>

Both help to make a hacker, from what I understand. :-)


<< This list is so messed up
 its hillarious.  I didn't want to add to the string of useless messages, but
 it doesn't look like anyone cares anyway.  I will be monitoring the list for
 any signs of intelligent conversation. >>

It may be because there are certain hackers getting inbetween those that want
to actually say something, and the list.  Fact is, I just unsubscribed from
this list, but my e-mail apparently didn't make it to the server.

Must be because I'm on AOL, 'right'?  ;-)

Stan,
The MOST Important Page on the Net -
http://members.aol.com/whtsametau/camel/index.htm




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Reeza! 
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 04:49:21 -0700 (PDT)
To: Anonymous 
Subject: Re: Todd Bowers: Dumbass
In-Reply-To: <199807240605.IAA00062@replay.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980725214751.0087d210@205.83.192.13>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 08:05 AM 24 07 98 +0200, Anonymous wrote:
>On Thu, 23 Jul 1998, Todd Bowers wrote:
>
>> cool ..... i am 13
>> 
>
>Actually, your being a complete dumbass overshadows your being 13.
>

Not to mention you forgot to use 3l33t zp33l1n6.

Reeza!




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Reeza! 
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 05:27:59 -0700 (PDT)
To: Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC 
Subject: Re: Iz that real?
In-Reply-To: <009C9AA3.421B6260.5@west.cscwc.pima.edu>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980725222452.00886100@205.83.192.13>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 03:50 PM 24 07 98 MST, Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC wrote:
>X-URL: mailto:cypherpunks@toad.com
>X-Mailer: Lynx, Version 2-4-2
>X-Personal_name: Linda Reeza
>X-From: obvious@forgery.eff
>
>Reeza,
>  Stop hacking those military computer accounts, and quit backtalking
>to your teacher, or you'll never get out of grade 4...
>

Dear Linda:

I'm not hacking a military account.

Sincerely,

Reeza!

ps- which school of mine did you sub in?




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: lcs Mixmaster Remailer 
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 20:00:08 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: RE: my thoughts for this list +
Message-ID: <19980726030004.11032.qmail@nym.alias.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


In a message dated 7/25/98 6:45:41 PM Central Daylight Time, k4t@beachaccess.com writes:

<< I have been getting this list for a few days. I subscribed to this list in
 the hopes I could learn something about crypto, in particular the GPG
 project.  So far I have seen pretty much nothing about crypto or anything a
 person who is not high or crazy could understand. >>

Both help to make a hacker, from what I understand. :-)


<< This list is so messed up
 its hillarious.  I didn't want to add to the string of useless messages, but
 it doesn't look like anyone cares anyway.  I will be monitoring the list for
 any signs of intelligent conversation. >>

It may be because there are certain hackers getting inbetween those that want to actually say something, and the list.  Fact is, I just unsubscribed from this list, but my e-mail apparently didn't make it to the server.

Must be because I'm on AOL, 'right'?  ;-)

Here's another post that didn't seem to make it through-
======
In a message dated 7/24/98 10:12:55 AM Central Daylight Time, 0_rcummi@funrsc.fairfield.edu writes:

<< > WHY CANT I FIND ANY WHITE AMERICAN YOUTH ALBUMS ANYWHERE?   
 > 
 > 
 
 Reason 1:  You're from AOL
 Reason 2:  You don't know where the caps lock key is
 Reason 3:  You're looking on the cypherpunks list for music.
 Reason 4:  You're from AOL >>

Tee, hee hee.

I didn't find it on Cypherpunks (I didn't even check Cypherpunks for it :-) ), it's from some media article.  It described a incident that happened when someone complained about someone elses loud music -

<< Patrol officers had 
 to bang on Joseph W. Wedemeyer's door for about 
 15 minutes before getting his attention, Capt. Robert 
 Linardi said. They charged him with disorderly conduct.
 
 The next afternoon, Linardi said, Wedemeyer confronted 
 his neighbor on the street. Linardi said Wedemeyer, 
 who is white, called the neighbor, who is black, a 
 racial epithet and said, "I'm going to kill you." ... >>

That's the kind of music you're talking about, 'right'?

I heard they were after Tom('s) DeLay(ed Resignation), but they missed.  Direct hits to his brains and his heart, though!  ;-)
=====
Stan (StanSqncrs@AOL.com)
The MOST Important Page on the Net -
http://members.aol.com/whtsametau/camel/index.htm




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC 
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 04:42:18 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: GodLess - SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS!!!
Message-ID: <009C9BD8.781EFBC0.1@west.cscwc.pima.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


GodLess Capitalists - SPACE ALIENS HIDE M DRUGS!!!
___________________________________________________

"Centralism is dead," says Hayek; however, according to Friedman, it 
is not so much centralism that is dead, but rather the futility, and 
subsequent genre, of centralism. Dialectic construction states that 
government is capable of truth, given that culture is distinct from 
sexuality. Gonzalo implies that we have to choose between the textual 
paradigm of discourse and dialectic cultural theory. It could be said 
that the primary theme of Fielding's essay on Saussurean semiotics is 
the failure, and hence the rubicon, of patriarchialist truth.

"Class is part of the collapse of reality," says Lyotard. In a sense, 
the example of dialectic construction prevalent in JFK is also evident 
in Heaven and Earth, although in a more mythopoetical sense. Habermas 
promotes the use of the textual paradigm of discourse to attack 
colonialist perceptions of language.

In the works of Vinge, a predominant concept is the concept of
neocapitalist consciousness. But Lacan uses the term 'Saussurean 
semiotics' to denote the role of the observer as participant. The 
subject is interpolated into a structuralist paradigm of expression 
that includes truth as a totality.

If one examines the textual paradigm of discourse, one is faced with 
a choice: either accept dialectic construction or conclude that 
expression must come from the masses, but only if the premise of 
semiotic theory is valid; otherwise, truth is part of the praxis of 
sexuality. Hughes holds that we have to choose between Saussurean 
semiotics and dialectic construction.
Milhon's critique of the textual paradigm of discourse suggests
that the task of the reader is social comment.

--Herr Doktor Prof. T.C. May, Ing.


  See, I told you Tim May knew about that sort of crap.

  Now, Greg Broiles told me that he knew T.C. May, and I'm no Tim May, 
and I don't know all those fancy, intellectual words, but I've never 
found anything that couldn't be adequately described using the eight 
words you can't say on the InterNet, so I'm going to tell you all
about why the GodLess Commies kicked the MindsOfTheMassesAsses so bad
that that RockyFeller figured that if he could discover the secret of
the BullShitVic Schtick, he could finally realize his dream of having
more Dogamned money than the Pope.

  Marx and Stalin and Lenin and Chairperson Mao knew all about that
1984 stuff about controlling the people by controlling the language
and symbolism. 
  They also understood, like I explained before, that you don't want
your NewOldLady looking at a picture of her old boyfriend while you're
sticking your dick in her, so all of his crap, like his old love-
letters and the shirts he left behind, has got to go.
  Even more, the GodLess Commies knew that it wasn't enough to just
throw the OldBoyfriend's shit out, you had to 'deconstruct' your
NewOldLady's memory of him, even if you had to wipe her fucking mind
out with electroshock and make her listen to tape-loops.

  That RockyFeller kind of knew that, since he was doing the couch-
circuit with all of the Movers&Shakers around the globe, no matter
what their schtick was, but wasn't smart enough to figure out all of
that stuff on his own, and besides, he was pretty busy counting his
money, and that's why he paid the I.S.P.'s GodLess Commies to figure
out the best way to put the BullShitVic Schtick up the butts of the
masses via the medium of the media of Radiating Radio Waves.
  The Radio Project's GodLess Commies didn't have much money to count,
so it didn't take them long to figure out the obvious, which is that
you don't fuck with a winning game. So they figured that 'abolution
of culture' could be accomplished by making intellectual content of
the medium as close to zero as possible, and that they could 'determine
the new cultural forms' of the listeners by Pavlovian repetition which
would eventually lead to the listeners drooling on command.
  Of course, as always, the increasing 'alienation of the population' 
remained important, since people with a strong sense of belonging in
a family, community, social structure, etc., still had a picture of
their BoyFriend by their beside, figuratively speaking.
  The techniques to make people increasingly 'radio-minded' was to 
reach it's epitome in later years, with the invention of the TV-tray,
which enabled families to abandon any pretense, whatsoever, of their
family ties being stronger than their imaginary bond to Lucille Ball
and Ricky Ricardo. [WAS: Fuck mom! I LOVE LUC!]

  It was no coincidence that one of Franklin Delanor Roosevelt's main
avenues of application of Madison Avenue Plain Folk Imagery was his
FireSideChats on the medium which had become a RichCommieFeller tool
for seizing the hearts and minds of the masses.
  After all, FDR owed much of his power and success to Elanor knowing
whose ear to blow into in the Eclectic Communist Community of the day.
  The main difference between the Bolshoi Political Ballet in Russia, 
and the Communist TakeOver Of America, was that there was no need to
remove the heads of the politicians in power and the capitalist Money
Mongers, because the politicians and the MoneyMongers *were* the head
of the Commie/Fascist TakeOver Of America.


* To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed
       Remailer)
* Subject: A Thousand Points Of Fight (fwd)
* From: Jim Choate 

Forwarded message:
> From: Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC 
> Subject: A Thousand Points Of Fight

> federal government. Communism now represents a threat to no one in
> the United States, while federal tyranny represents a threat to
> EVERONE.

An all powerful federal government IS communism. Communism is the 
political theory that property ownership and management must be 
centralized under a single authority. While our current state is 
moving more toward a fascist approach, private ownership & central 
mananagement, with the increasingly extensive federal management of 
private business & behaviour. 


  See, I told you so...

An Exercise For The Reader #487:
  Call up an international arms dealer and tell HimOrHer that you 
need some guns and tanks, and stuff, to start a war or a revolution,
and that you don't have any money, but you'll pay HimOrHer after you
win.

  Right...
  The Movers&Shakers (TM) don't fall for the old GoodLeader/BadLeader
crap that is pushed to the public. They have a foot in the door of
all of the major players backrooms and merely switch their 'allegiance'
to one or another of the players once the final outcome of the game
becomes obvious.
  Neither Lenin nor Hitler borrowed money from 'dad' to start their
war/revolution. They got the money from the ever-present SugarDaddies
who have adopted children scattered all over the globe. 

  Likewise, SugarDaddy's BigKids in the Military and Intelligence
Agencies may fight among themselves over who sits on SugarDaddy's
knee, but when those outside the family start butting in, then 
the CIA and the Mafia, for instance, call a truce to take care of 
family business.
  SugarDaddy loves his GoodKids and BadKids equally...

  Neither do the BigKids in SugarDaddy's CorporateEmpires let petty
little details like wars that their own children are fighting interfere
with BusinessAsUsual.
 ("Be careful out there, son, we just sold the Nazis ball-bearings
  for their tanks, through Brazil of course, after you bombed their
  ball-bearing factories.
  "Here's some extra spending cash for next time you get leave. ou've
  earned it..")


* To: Cypherpunks 
* Subject: Re: A Thousand Points Of Fight (fwd)
* From: Frederick Burroughs 
* Sender: owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
       
Jim Choate wrote:

> An all powerful federal government IS communism. Communism is the 
> political theory that property ownership and management must be 
> centralized under a single authority. While our current state is 
> moving more toward a fascist approach ,private ownership & central 
> mananagement, with the increasingly extensive federal management of 
> private business & behaviour. 

Indeed, Marx's final stage of classless society, "from each according 
to their ability to each according to their needs", implies a level of 
government management that was all but impossible during his lifetime. 
The technology required for this level of management now exists, and 
is being implimented.
"Classless society" has been achieved, not by the dissolution of 
classes, but by the development of technology to a level that can 
assign each individual into his own class. Technology now allows the 
optimum utilization of each individual by the state. 
Loners can voice their objections at the US Capitol...


  Fast Freddy 'Son of Speed' Burroughs illustrates that paying the
extra few bucks for a priority connection to the ClueServer pays off,
in the long run.
  He recognizes that somewhere, in an underground bunker, a Reptilian
Nazi is humoring his ScaleOfTen buddies by using the latest in secret
lavoratory developed technology to create a cross-clone being that
has the MindOfMarx, the BallsOfHitler, and the LipsOfGeorgeBush, 
which are intoning, "We *have* the technology!"

  All this shit was in 'The Xenix Chainsaw Massacre' in 1989, but
hardly anybody knew what the fuck was being talked about.
 (I could insert quotes that illustrate this, except I don't have
any copies of it, since ThievingFuckingMountieCriminalPricks stole
my computers, which is why I am in the middle of fucking them so
bad that they will never be the same, afterwards. I was minding my
own business, sitting at home telling the Truth over the InterNet,
when they decided they just had to fuck with me, so fuck them in
thier dirty, crimininal little assholes...)

  Anyway, what TXCSM said, in a nutshell, was that the success of
TotalWorldDomination being achieved by the Controllers was merely
dependent on development of the right tools, and tweaking them, and
that TV and the InterNet were the right tools.
  WebWorld & The Mythical Circle of Eunuchs was just written as a
fun look at a possible FutureTimeLine&SpaceWave, since The Xenix
Chainsaw Massacre had already said everything that needed to be
said, if one chose to listen.
  InfoWar was written mostly as a cross-communication tool between
Circle of Eunuchs Gorilla Cells, keeping one another updated on
each other's progress.
  Space Aliens Hide My Drugs is just a rambling, nonsensical diatribe
that results when you finally snap, and decide that any Reptilian
Nazi that fucks with you is going to be repaid in Spades, perhaps
even Aces&Eights, since I am playing with a deck that is a little
*too* full, if you know what I mean.

  Regardless, to get back to answering the question that Declan, 
GodLessSchill of the TrilateralCPU, asked, about why I send this
crap to the CypherPunks...it is because those who make this list
their home instinctively know what I have been preaching since
1989--and no doubt some of them have been preaching it since
long before that--the InterNet is going to be the Final Frontier
of the Battle for Freedom and Privacy between the Controllers
and the Citizenry.

  The CypherPunks understand: 
"THE (TM) *have* the technology."

  WeTheSheeple have been getting their asses kicked on the
Frontiers of Rights & Freedoms, without even seeming to 
realize, for the most part, that they are in a fight.
 
Fresh From The ClueServer:
  Even the Nazis didn't start the CattleCars openly rolling 
to the Auschwitz Spa & Resort until they were in a position 
of total control.
  It is *not* OK that the government is taking away our rights
and freedoms, as well as our means to defend ourselves against
them, because they are *our* government, because they are the
GoodGuys, because they have GoodIntentions, because they are
only FuckingUsALittleBit(ForNow), because we are *comfortable*
and ThingsAren'tReallyAllThatBad(et)...

  Think about what *you* have done, personally, to guarantee
the continuation of your rights and freedoms.
  Think about whether you deserve any rights or freedoms.
(es, *deserve*...they ain't, contrary to popular opinion,
 free for the taking...)

  Think about why the government continues a WarOnDrugs which
has been completely ineffective in stopping drug use, in the
least, and has only resulted in the imprisonment of more of
our citizens than the most evil of dictators that the RoyalWe
point our fingers at, as well as high crime rates, and the
wholesale slaughter of our youth.
  Could it be because the government knows exactly what they
are doing, and *desire* these results? Good Guess!!!
  The same goes for the majority of the ills and evils that
are part and parcel of the road that our political leaders 
have led us willingly down. They are no more a mistake than
the technology of Radio and TeleVision being directed towards
mindless drivel, mass hypnosis and social control programming.

  While WeTheSheeple sell our souls, our independence, our 
rights and freedoms, for the comfort and security of being 
spoon-fed our reality, while being 'protected' from the
GreatEvils that the Controllers have promoted or invented
in both our MeatSpace and our MindSpace, They (TM) have
been busy little beavers, butchering minds and lives in a
quest to gain an extra inch, here or there, in the battle
for the minds of all of humanity.

  I want you to all rise from your chairs, open your windows,
and scream, as loud as you can,
  "I've got a DICK, and I'm not afraid to use it!"

  Well, OK, maybe that's not such a good idea, but you know
what I'm talking about, eh?

Anthrax - Smoke 'em if you got it...





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 06:04:54 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Jim Bell Rage
Message-ID: <199807261304.JAA14297@camel14.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Received from anonymous July 26, 1998:

The Columbian (Oregon), No date.

Written by John Branton, Columbian staff writer

Eleven months in prison - and counting - haven't muzzled
James Dalton Bell's rage about what he calls government
"black operations" against him. "This story has more
government misbehavior than Watergate", Bell wrote in a
recent letter to The Columbian.

He added in a phone call"I'm in a little bit of danger.
These people don't want me talking to you."

Bell is the 39-year-old McLoughlin Heights man who wrote
an Internet essay, "Assassination Politics", that
proposed the bounty-driven murder of "government
slimeballs". The former electronics engineer hadn't
spoken to The Columbian for about a year, until recently.
He was released from federal prison in April.

Bell served 11 months after pleading guilty to using
false Social Security numbers and obstructing the
Internal Revenue Service by trying to intimidate agents
and stink bombing their Vancouver office. Bell returned
to his parents' home this spring but was free only
about two months. Currently, Bell is back in a federal
prison in Seattle, awaiting a July 31 hearing on charges
that he violated his probation conditions. He's alleged
to have refused a court-ordered mental-health evaluation
and search of his parents' home.

Who is this man, many people have asked, who lives in our
midst when he isn't in prison - and if the IRS is to be
believed, dabbled with things such as nerve gas, botulism
toxin and sodium cyanide? IRS agents say Bell published a
"hit list" of agents' home addresses on the Internet for
his anti-government "patriot" friends, and discussed
contaminating water supplies with a buddy.

Is IRS Inspector Jeff Gordon correct in comparing Bell to
Timothy McVeigh and Theodore Kaczynski and saying the IRS
interrupted him in plans to commit murder? No, says Bell. 

"They knew I wasn't planning to kill federal agents",
Bell said this month. "They were scared because I had
written something that shows a way to eliminate
government. They were afraid I could convince the public
that I could replace existing government for no more than
a 10th or 20th of its current cost."

His wariness of the federal government is understandable
- they put him in prison. But his words reveal a view of
governmental duplicity like the fictional world of X-
Files agents Mulder and Scully. "Paranoid would be a good
word", said Bell's federal probation officer, Matthew
Richards. Bell, asked why he doesn't obey his court-
ordered probation terms to stay out of prison, made a
reference to the political imprisonment of Nelson
Mandela, South Africa's president. "I believe that when
the federal government decided to spy on me, simply
because of my political opposition to their tyranny and
terrorism, it dramatically diverged from what the average
American citizen would be inclined to tolerate", Bell
wrote recently.

Beginning in late 1995 or early 1996, Bell said, federal
agents read his "Assassination Politics" essay, posted on
the Internet. The essay described a computerized system
to ward "untraceable digital cash" to anyone who
correctly predicted the exact time of a federal agent's
murder. In Bell's words, "Imagine for a moment that, as
ordinary citizens were watching the evening news, they
see an act by a government employee or officeholder that
they feel violates their rights, abuses the public's
trust or misuses the powers that they feel should be
limited. What if they could go to their computers, type
in the miscreant's name, and select a dollar amount. If
0.1 percent of the population, or one person in a
thousand, was willing to pay $1 to see some government
slimeball dead, that would be in effect, a $250,000
bounty on his head."

Alarmed, Bell says, federal agents used two homes near
his parent's home, one on Corregidor Road and the other
on Mississippi Drive, for a clandestine and possibly
illegal surveillance operation. Agents supposedly
installed thousands of dollars worth of sophisticated

equipment, possibly using microwave technology, to spy on
Bell. "None of that occurred", said federal probation
officer Richards. "Absolutely not true", said the owner
of one of the houses. "I wouldn't let the feds in my
house."

Bell said he suspects the agents bugged his phone
illegally - and followed him when he got out of prison
briefly in April. "We never bugged his phone", Richards
said. "No tailing whatsoever". Once, Bell said, he
spotted someone following him and turned the tables on
them. Bell followed the car to Rixen's Enterprises, 2700
N. Hayden Island Drive, which he suspects is a secret
front for a federal "black operation".

"No spooks here", said the owner, Jim Rixen, 40, who said
he deals in heating systems for boats and recreational
vehicles. "I've had this company for 13 years. You can
ask anybody on this island. You're more than welcome to
come here and go through everything I've got. He might
have followed some customer of mine here. I've never
heard anything about it."

In his upcoming hearing in the U.S. District Court in
Tacoma, the government will charge Bell with additional -
so far undisclosed - probation violations, Richards said.
If Bell has any actual evidence of illegal practices by
the government, that would be the place to bring it up.

=end of article=






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED/EUREKA! 
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 05:16:39 -0700 (PDT)
To: All Eureka/Stuffed Subscribers: ;
Subject: Nympho Spice/I was bonked on the golf course
Message-ID: <19980726104909.1894.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Welcome to  today's  issue of Stuffed. To read it you should
click on the URL below.  If it is not made clickable by your
email program  you will need to  use your mouse to highlight
the line,  copy it and then paste it into your browser (then
press Return).

http://stuffed.net/98/7/26/

If you  have an email program that can display web pages you
will find today's front cover should have already been disp-
layed and can be clicked on to take you straight to Stuffed.

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC 
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 11:30:17 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: TruthChapter - SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS!!!
Message-ID: <009C9C11.75915C20.5@west.cscwc.pima.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



TruthChapter -- SPACE ALIENS HIDE M DRUGS!!!
_____________________________________________

    OK, so it's a slow day and you don't have much going on.

  our sister is out of town for the weekend, your dog is
on the rag and your Visa is maxed-out. Thus, sex is not a
viable option for killing a little spare time (now a felony).

So what the hell...
  ou're going through the posts to the CypherPunks list and
you notice that the asshole who forged posts to the list in
your name (claiming that fucking two nine year-olds is just
as legal as fucking an 18 year-old) has spammmed yet another
chapter of the rambling, semi-coherent saga "The True Story
Of The InterNet" to the list.
  ou've read bits and pieces of the manuscripts (on company
time), every now and again (more out of boredom than because
of any socially or coupon redeeming content), and it bothers
you that the Author has taken concepts, themes and issues
that are important to you and put a bizarre, insane/inane
twist on them that somehow degrades and defiles them, in
spite of the fact that he sometimes supplies a remarkable
amount of documented facts and viewpoints from 'respectable
sources' in support of his vague claims and wild-eyed
theories.

    ou take great care to avoid being 'caught' reading the
manuscripts by others and you wouldn't dream of admitting
in public that you view them as anything but mindless
trash, but you keep finding yourself thinking about some
of the underlying views expressed by the Author of the
manuscripts.
    ou've begun to realize that what troubles you about
the 'True Story Of The InterNet' manuscripts is reflective
of what bothers you about the InterNet, in general, as a
Medium/Message--the ongoing battle between order and chaos
that reins supreme within a Virtual Reality where Jane and
Joe Average can avail themselves of the same technology as
Established Authority (TM) in the battle for your attention.

  Ms. Information Highway is a Eunuch who embodies the
divergent and seemingly contradictory yin/yang qualities
that would result from a cross-cloning of Walter Cronkite
and the BlondeBimbo that everyone tells the jokes about.
  It's like the 'science' of UFOlogy...the 'experts' in
the field often provide a well-documented trail of facts
and figures from recognized sources and authorities. The
problem, of course, is that the facts and figures are
used to 'prove' a wide range of Plausible Theories (TM)
ranging from highly-evolved beings with a superior
intelligence to humans, to Reptilian Nazis living deep
within the bowels of Mother Earth who are cultivating
SurfaceDwellers such as ourselves to provide a FoodFarm
for Alien GreyHound Tourists passing through on their
way to another galaxy.


  The Problem (TM) posed by the InterNet is Taoist in
Nature.
  The Total Access To All Information which is inherent
in the Physical Manifestation Of Virtual Reality which
we know as the InterNet opens a Dangerous Door Of
Perception leading to an environment within which we
have the possibility of being...free!
  The Freedom represented by Unrestricted Access To
Information comes from having the ability to exercise
one of the most basic of all human qualities, which is
to 'seek' knowledge in our quest for an expanding
evolutionary wisdom. The Freedom is to be able to
Search for Knowledge according to one's own personal
predilictions and desires, and to Choose from All
Available Information/Knowledge what one will use
as tools in building one's Perceived Reality.

  In a world where we have become accustomed to being
spoon-fed the information, perceptions and viewpoints
which comprise our Perceived Reality (by Officially
Recognized Authority), we suddenly find ourselves
faced with the possibility of using the technological
tools of the InterNet to direct our Attention/Perception
along vectors of our own choosing, rather than being
subjected to forced herding into the fenced pastures
and feeding pens designed by the Controllers to keep
us in an environment which is the most suitable and
convenient for their purposes.


  The Freedom is freedom from a Reality created and
governed by Official Government Pamphlets handed to us
in every area of our life.
  The Freedom is the freedom to peruse the colored charts
and diagrams provided by the Pentagon to lead us through
a maze where Gulf War Syndrome is an imaginary being that
is always just around the corner, and then to direct our
attention to the private WebSite of a Gulf War Vetran
who provides the details of his personal experience in
regard to the war and its effect on his or her life and
health.
  The Freedom is the freedom to read the wildly rambling,
nonsensical diatribes contained in the 'True Story Of The
InterNet' manuscripts and say, "Bullshit! I'm going to
check these wild-eyed claims out for myself."
  The Freedom is freedom to chaff and winnow the original
Seed Of Knowledge in a manner that suits your desires, and
to seek out InterNet venues and personas which make your
Quest for Knowledge more complete or efficient. The
Freedom is the freedom to change the direction or the
parameters of your Quest for a specific reason, or on a
momentary whim, solely to view your Perceived Reality
from the outside, in order to get a more objective view
of the WorldReality you have constructed.

  It is in this spirit that the 'TruthChapter' is being
dedicated.


    TruthChapter FAQ
    ----------------
1. What you are currently reading is *not* the TruthChapter.
2. The Author has not written, and has no intention of
  writing, the TruthChapter.
3. The Author is full of shit! Regardless of the ultimate
  level of personal and professional ethics that the Author
  brings to the manuscripts that pass through his or her
  space-time continuum of MuseDom, his or her attitudes,
  facts, figures, beliefs, values, etc., are completely
  irrelevant to your path in life, except to the extent
  that you, personally, evaluate and apply the concepts
  and ideas expressed for your consideration.
4. Writing the TruthChapter is *your* job! This is true
  whether you choose to participate in the activity which
  is described below in 'An Exercise For The Reader', or
  whether you choose to curl up in bed with Playboy, Time,
  The Wall Street Journal, Beer and Bloating In Lost Wages,
  or A Physically Manifested Expression Of Mind To Be
  Named Later.

=============================

TruthChapter FAQ Intermission

  Make some popcorn, grab a beer, and think about the
following...

  At some point in 'InfoWar - Part III of the True Story
Of The InterNet', there was a statement, quote, or some
reference documented reference to the Fact (TM) that,
during a period when violent crime statistics showed a
significant 'decrease' in violent crimes, that public
perception viewed violent crime as being very much on
the 'increase' (and a 'growing' problem).
  The reader of the manuscript has no way of personally
knowing whether the Author is passing along real, existing
facts and/or information in this regard, whether he or
she is lying in order to promote a private agenda, or
whether the Author dreamed or imagined the 'information'
during drunken drug-withdrawal seizures.
  The same concept holds true even if you can verify
through personal research that the fact/information came
from an established, respectable, documented source.
(i.e. - "Oswald acted alone." / "We, the jury, find
 OJ Simpson 'not guilty'." / "We, the 'civil jury', find
 OJ Simpson 'guilty'." / "We, the Court Of Public Opinion,
 made up our minds long before the trial began." /
 "The Mormon Tabernacle Choir acted alone..." )

  My point?
  The Author makes no bones about being a drunken, insane,
drug-addicted, infantile pervert. The fact that past and
present Presidents, Dictators, Titans of Industry, Media
Moguls, Religious Leaders, Politicians, etc., etc., ad
infinitum, choose to claim that they smoked pot but didn't
inhale, that they drank liquor but never swallowed, that
they had sex but didn't cum...
  Well, the bottom line is, "ou pays your money, you takes
your chance."

  Although the reality of the time-space continuum requires
that we develop structures and processes by which we can
navigate life's diverse paths, delegating many of our
daily thoughts, feelings and activities to pre-programmed
reactions and responses that are based on our previous
experience and analysis of life, we can never truly escape
the reality that 'Life is a crapshoot' and that failure to
exercise our capacity for conscious awareness results in
our becoming submerged in a robotic humanity/persona which
leaves us vulnerable to automatically travelling along the
path of least resistance.
  Our being Real (TM) is not a question of 'truthfully'
answering our employer's question in regard to our opinion
on the Vietnam war, whether our employer is the Pentagon
or the Peace Coalition. Gurdjieff once said that in one's
inner life, one is free to say, 'The King is shit!', but
in one's outer life, it is often wise to say, 'All hail
the King!'. Our being Real (TM) is mostly a question of
being aware of the difference between our inner and our
outer lives.

  My definition of a 'truthful' person is one who does
not lie to others more than he or she lies to oneself,
except as necessary.
  As far as when it is 'necessary' to lie, and what it
is 'necessary' to lie about...that is a matter of personal
conscience for every individual. It is dependent on one's
personal wisdom and understanding, as well as on their
beliefs and values in life.
(i.e. - It is up to each individual to decide whether
 they are comfortable with lying when the Gestapo ask
 if they are hiding Jews in the attic.)

  In a world where there is increasing pressure to conform
completely to a constantly narrowing societal paridigm, it
is important to resist sinking into a primordal swamp of
group consciousness that submerges our individual creative
spirit, or spark of life.
  I regard it as an absolute anathema to the human spirit
that opinions of OJ's guilt or innocence is split so
radically along racial lines, far beyond what differences
in social exposure and experience alone would dictate
among people of thought and reason.
  Everyone who was present when Nicole Simpson and Ronald
Goldman were murdered, raise your hand...
  Although it is encumbent upon us, in our daily lives, to
judge ourself and our life based on the best possible
information, to the best of our ability, we too often tend
to do so from a perspective of a biased, angry mob outside
of the courtroom, than from a perspective of a juror sworn
to high standards of objectivity in viewing our own life
and our personal knowledge/belief systems.

  The tragedy of the OJ trial was that the blatant racism,
corruption and lack of professional ethics of those who
are employed to be objective, unbiased investigators made
it impossible for an objective juror to place a man's fate
in the hands that gathered the evidence.
  The tragedy of life's trials is that there is so much
intrigue and subterfuge in our environment, as a result
of private and group agendas driven by human weaknesses
and character defects, that it is now a monumental task to
analyze and evaluate the information we receive, in order
to feel confident in our ability to structure our beliefs
and pre-programmed reactions and feelings in a manner that
will allow us to feel our spiritual integrity has remained
intact during the process.


  The point I am leading up to is that it is difficult,
yet exceedingly important, to overcome our human foibles
and our tendency to become robotic Sheeple in the present
societal environment which puts great pressure upon us
to abandon freedom of thought and spirit, in the interest
of the comfort of conformity.
  We live in a society where we are required by law and
custom to nod our belief and approval when our elected
political leader says, "Read my lips...no new taxes!",
even though there is not a person on the face of the
earth who doesn't understand it is a meaningless lie.
  It doesn't matter whether it is the political arena,
the religious arena, the media, the press, the justice
system, or whatever--The Lies Flow Like Water! We have
become so numbed by the assault on the Truth that it is
an easy task merely to fall into a deep slumber where
we cease resisting the constant attacks on our inherent
sensibility and our desire for increased knowledge and
wisdom.

  Gurdjieff posited that it is 'impossible' for a human
to 'consciously do evil'.
  Although the truth of this is most easily seen in the
group descent into unthinking madness that was epitomized
by the rise and fall of the Third Reich, I believe that
it is equally true in the smaller areas of daily life,
where we learn to robotically 'fool' ourselves, often
in the interests of survival, into believing that it is
Right, instead of merely Expedient, to believe that
requiring certain ethnic groups to sit at the back of
the bus is 'the way it is', instead of consciously
maintaining awareness that it is Wrong, if that is our
true personal feeling and belief.

  It is my belief that Right & Wrong (TM) have little
or no meaning without a Conscious Objective Awareness
that can only result from an individual having the
freedom to explore all of the information and experience
that life has to offer, without unreasonable, intrusive
censorship from various elements of their environment.
  Which brings us back to...the TruthChapter...

=============================


TruthChapter FAQ (continued)
----------------------------
5. The Medium Is The Message... The information that comes
  into our range of perceptive attention is shaped, shaded
  and molded in a manner dependent upon the medium of
  communication by which it is transmitted.
   This is true whether the Information is transmitted by
  genetics, analog or digital emmissions, is a moving and
  flowing energy, or is captured in a static, stable form.
  Fish find their way back to their birthplace by a different
  method than humans because of the difference in the mediums
  by which they receive the necessary information.
6. Salmon don't have to show a passport to an armed fish
  representing the Stream Government. Salmon don't have to
  have approval of the Church of Salmon in order to spawn.
  Salmon don't get a ticket for swimming on the wrong side
  of the stream, or for swimming too fast.
   Big fish eat little fish...in one gulp. They don't nibble
  them to death with Fish Taxes. They don't drown them at
  the stake for believing the earth is round. Fish are not
  as 'smart' or 'creative' as humans--they do not mentally
  build Empires out of Imaginary Sand Castles In The Sky
  and then eat each other in an argument over what color
  to paint the walls.
7. If Salmon could write, they would probably write a FAQ
  with Facts, instead of embellishing the information with
  vague, semi-rational references that seem to be putting
  a confusing spin on their World Of Perceived Reality for
  no other reason than fear of falling off if it ceases
  turning.



  OK, so instead of using the TruthChapter FAQ to provide
you with accurate, unbiased information with which to
construct your own WorldView (TM), I ended up getting a
little carried away, using my Substance Abuse Enhanced
Creativity (TM) to try to suck the reader into a WorldView
constructed by myself for the sole purpose of making it
the Reader's turn to buy the next round of drinks.
  Although you might regard this as merely another 'proof'
of my freely admitted diabolicallity (don't bother looking
it up in the dictionary), it is my contention that you are
only fooling yourself if you are of the belief that you
can take the facts/opinions of *anyone* at face value,
without asking questions such as:
  "Had Saint Peter already signed a BookDeal with a Bible
   publisher before authoring the Epistles which he asks
   us to take as fact, based on Faith?"
  "Did Moses have inside information that there were vast
   reserves of oil in the Promised Land?"
  "Did Job belong to an S&M cult?"
  "Was St. John the Divine 'on something' when he had his
   'Revelation' ?"
  "When Jesus performed his 'miracles', did he work with
   scantily clad, sexy assistants, in order to divert the
   attention of the crowd?"

  The point I am trying to make is that, even in the arena
of religious belief, there is a difference between Faith
and a Lobotomy. Likewise in the arenas of Politics, Family,
Business, Sports and Relationships.
  For example:
"WaterGate FAQ" by Richard Nixon
"Curfew Time FAQ" by our Mom & Dad
"MicroSoft FAQ" by Saint William Gates
"Sports FAQ" by Jimmy the Greek & Marge Shott
"Relationship FAQ" by A Pregnant Woman Who Claimed To Be
                   On The Pill And Now Demands ou Marry Her
"TruthChapter FAQ" by A Cheap Drunk To Be Named Later


  In the interests of using the True Story Of The InterNet
manuscripts as a vehicle to increase the Reader's ability
to analyze and evaluate the proffered 'information' in a
manner that utilizes the evolving technological tools of
the medium by which the manuscripts are being disseminated,
the Author is making freely available the information with
which he was planning to generate/construct a chapter with
the title, 'son of The Mother Of All Chapters'.
  By providing the Reader with the information gleaned from
the InterNet for constructing the 'son of The Mother Of All
Chapters', as well as revealing HisOrHer's secret designs
and hidden agendas culminating in the final, manifested
form of the chapter, the Author is offering you, the highly
esteemed Reader of the 'True Story Of The InterNet', an
opportunity to InterActively Participate in the process of
the construction of your personal News & Entertainment
Paridigm.

  The reality of the time-space continuum dictates that we
must apply our time and resources in gathering and analyzing
the information by which we construct our WorldView in a
manner that best utilizes the tools at our disposal to
shape, color and mold available information, including
taking advantage of the MiniPre-Fab Realities that are
offered to us by our fellow RealityBuilders.
  Although Manufacturing Reality can be done with greater
quality control and efficiency through the sharing of
our individual Reality Products, basic economics dictates
that there are often HiddenCosts associated with believing
RealityAdvertising claims that something is 'free', in
the overall scheme of things.
  There is little difference between being a HeatedSpoonFed
Heroin Addict and in being a SpoonFed News/Information/
Entertainment Junkie. Once you are hooked, the price goes
up, and you end up on Information Welfare and still having
to steal your own integrity in order to pay an increasing
price for a diluted/cut product, in order to feed your
habit/need with an inferior product.
  The TruthChapter is being presented as an opportunity
to explore the possibility of weaning yourself to a
realistically supportable level of addiction to incoming
information in order to strike a balance between suffering
the pangs and arrows of outrageous fortune, in the course
of your evolution, and becoming Irrevocably Comfortably
Numb through overuse of the current OpiateOfTheMasses.

  Despite the fact that the inspiration for the process of
completing 'son of The Mother Of All Chapters' was largely
the result of the Author having his computers and notes
stolen by Officially Recognized Authorities (TM), as well
as HimOrHer descending into a depressing, primordial pit
of dysfuntional drug withdrawal, this does not, in reality,
automatically preclude the possibility that the LoftyGoals
professed by the Author in regard to the purpose of the
TruthChapter *could* be true...


An Exercise For The Reader:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1. Read 'Son.doc' in order to familiarize yourself
  with the all-too-predictable paranoid conspiracy
  theory slant that the Author had planned to put upon
  the information gathered for the assembly of the
  'son of The Mother of All Chapters'.
   The Son.doc attachment is an incomplete preliminary
  summary/first-draft of the 'son of The Mother Of All
  Chapters', as envisioned by the Author.
2. Read 'ThePlot.txt' in order to get the general gist
  of the Spin that the Author had planned to put on
  the analysis and evaluation of the information that
  had been gathered.
3. Read 'FDR.doc' and 'FDR2.doc' to familiarize yourself
  with the building blocks with which the Author had
  planned to construct 'son of The Mother Of All Chapters',
  as well as HisOrHer notes regarding HisOrHer personal
  knowledge and experience that could be added to support
  HisOrHer's personal WorldView.
4. Write the fucking chapter yourself!
5. Disseminate the chapter to whomever you please, in any
  manner you please. (e.g. - snailmail to your mom, email
  to the CypherPunks Distributed Mailing List, or as an
  email reply to those who bless you with 'Make $$$ Fast!"
  UCE/Spams.)


 "The Answer To Noise, Is More Noise!"
 ~ CypherPunks Chief SpokesPerson #238

  Fuck the Author!
  Fuck Time Magazine, The Wall Street Journal, America's
Most Wanted, Paul Harvey and A 'No Loitering' Sign To Be
Named Later!
  Write your own goddamn chapter and tell it the way that
*you* see it.

  Fuck TruthMonger! *BE* the TruthMonger.
  Put your own accurate or inaccurate spin or twist on the
'son of The Mother Of All Chapters' information base. Add
to it with items gleaned from your own research, or from
your own personal accumulated knowledge and experience.
  Throw all of the provided information out and completely
write the chapter from scratch, with the same theme or a
different theme.
  Write the chapter, type the chapter, or just think about
how you would approach writing the chapter in order to make
manifest the expression of the knowledge and wisdom that you
have to share with your fellow Prisoners Of A Group Reality
as to how to best break the Chains Of Free Thought wrapped
around our brains by the Reality Police.

  Don't use your physical tools merely to receive and to
retransmit Noise.
  Create Noise!

  If anyone complains or criticizes your Noise, fuck 'em!
  ou're the TruthMonger!
  ou're the Author of 'son of The Mother Of All Chapters'.

  Don't lose any sleep over the whining of ignorant pissants
who are unable or unwilling to accept the fact that your world
is flat, and that's the way GoDoG intended it to be.
  Intelligent people, like oursleves, know the world is flat.
  That's the Truth (TM).




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC 
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 11:42:43 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Son
Message-ID: <009C9C13.311F2A20.13@west.cscwc.pima.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Son of Mother Of All Chapters -- SPACE ALIENS HIDE M DRUGS!!!
_________________________________________________________

July, 1948:
The moment has come when the costumes, the grease paint, the falsely

colored scenery, the technicolored spotlights and all the other artifices
of 
makeYDup should be put aside and, in the interest of truth, the solid
facts 
about the play and the players revealed to the people. 
~ The Roosevelt Myth, Preface to the Popsvox PublishingR edition 

Dec. 7, 1941
The Lake of Life has started to turn over. The bottom is rising to
the top, the 
top is descending to the bottom, and everything is becoming the opposite
of 
what it seems to be.
~ Vice-Admiral B. D'Shauneaux, USN

~~~
~~~

Version 1.7, Rev B:
Saturday morning, March 4, 1933...the conquering Democrats poured into

the city...
Only a week before an assassin's bullet had barely missed Roosevelt.
It
struck Anton Cermak, the Bohemian mayor and boss of Chicago, who with

Al Smith, had opposed Roosevelt's nomination...and died a few days
later. 

Version 2.7, Rev. 3:
On February 1, 1933, in Miami, Florida Giuseppe Zangara fired five
shots a President-elect Franklin D. Roosevelt, who was making an 
impromptu speech while sitting in an open car that had stopped momentarily.

Although none of the shots hit President Roosevelt, Zangara mortally

wounded Anton Cermak, the Mayor of Chicago, and hit four other people,
including a Secret Service agent.

Version 3.9, Rev. 2-B:
On February 15, 1933, Zangara attended a speech given by Roosevelt
at 
Bayfront Park in Miami, Florida.
When Roosevelt had finished his talk and was preparing to leave, Zangara

pulled out a pistol and opened fire.
Zangara wounded five people who had been near the president-elect,
two of 
them seriously. Most critically injured was Chicago Mayor Anton Cermak,

who was struck by the bullet in the chest which then lodged in his
spine. 

Version 4.9, Rev. 8C:
The parade car moved slowly down the street as President-elect Roosevelt

and Mayor Cermak smiled and waved. The car stopped and President-elect

Roosevelt gave a speech while sitting on the back of the car. A man
named 
Guiseppe Zangara pushed through the crowd. He fired five shots at the

President-elect. The bullets hit four people and Mayor Cermak.

Version 15.6, Rev. 7:
On March 6, Mayor Cermak died from complications stemming
from the shooting. The same day Zangara was indicted by a
grand jury and charged with first degree murder in the death of
Cermak. His trial began on March 9 and ended on March 11
with a guilty verdict and a death sentence. The prisoner was
transported to the Florida State Prison at Raiford, where he was
executed on March 20, 1933. 

Version 18.9, Rev. 5D:
Mayor Anton J. Cermak died three weeks later, on March 8, 1933. His

body was taken back to Chicago and buried in the Bohemian National

Cemetery.
Guiseppe Zangara was executed in the electric chair on March 21, 1933.

That was only 13 days after Mayor Cermak died.

Version 32.9, Rev. 12:
Consider the case of Guiseppe Zangara, who was executed in 1933 for
the
attempted assassination of President-elect Franklin D. Roosevelt in
which 
Chicago Mayor Anton J. Cermak was fatally shot. Zangara pleaded guilty
in 
state court on March 10, was sentenced to death, and was executed on

March 20 -- an interval of 10 days!

Version 82, Rev. 5Q:
After Roosevelt had delivered a speech in Florida on February 14, 1938,

Guiseppe Zangara, an unemployed bricklayer, fired six shots from a
handgun 
at Roosevelt from twelve yards away. The president-elect, who was sitting
in an open car, was uninjured but five other people were shot, including

Chicago mayor Anton Cernak, who was killed. 

Version 95, Rev. 8:
On February 15, 1933, Guiseppe Zangara rose early...




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC 
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 11:43:08 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: The Plot
Message-ID: <009C9C13.3FFFC220.15@west.cscwc.pima.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



The Plot of son of ?ThePlatypus
-------------------------------

Gathered information reveals:
1. US Presidents and important political figures count
  on the Secret Service for protection. Secret Service
  agents are in the employee of the MoneyMongers who
  rule the US Treasury Department.
   Thus, if the MoneyMongers don't approve of a powerful
  individual's political policy and actions...

2. Presidents and other political figures seem to die at
  particular junctures of time wherein they have already
  served their purpose to the Controllers. (Note: 'die'
  either physically or politically.
    i.e. - FDR croaking shortly after getting Truman
    elected as the hand-picked replacement of shadowy
    figures.

3. Ronald Reagan and FDR were both 'front men' for their
  wives, and/or those in their wives shadowy background.
    FDR, through the efforts of Elanor and her cohorts,
   was paid A QUARTER OF A MILLION DOLLARS in order to
   enter the New ork governor's race.

4. Accounts of the life and times of FDR inevitably contain
  a generous sprinkling of references to Luck!
    (e.g. - Fortuitous Circumstances as opposed to PART OF
     AN EVIL PLOT B THE SECRET CONTROLLERS WHO RULE THE
     WORLD FROM BEHIND THE SCENES!!!)

5. Hitler and his Evil Empire was no more a 'fluke of nature'
  than Lenin and his Evil Empire.
   The 'infiltration' of the American political scene by a
  wide variety of people with socialist or communist beliefs
  and agendas was not some mysterious, unplanned 'accident'.
   The rise of Eugenics, with the resulting implications of
  a Master Race embodied in genetic control, was a worldwide
  phenomena promoted by intellectuals and leaders in all
  nations, not just in the nation which gave Eugenics a
  'bad name' by instituting the end result of a Planned
  Society a little too fast to prevent disturbing the
  average persons natural pace of increasing moral compromise.

6. Neither Oswald nor Hitler 'acted alone.'
   Try starting a World War without the backing and support
of the MoneyMongers and the PowerBrokers. Lots of luck...

7. After Pavlov discovered biological mechanisms for the
  control of when dogs drool, his research did not come
  to a halt.
   Political and Military Czars who had a hand in developing
  and researching brainwashing techniques epitomized by 'The
  Manchurian Candidate' did *not* decide it would be wrong
  to use the techniques, just to increase their money and
  power.
    oung boys in the throes of publerty do *not* refrain
  from imagining what their large-breasted teacher would
  look like, naked, after reading 'The Invisible Man'.

8. Viewing the life and times of FDR (and probably any other
  political/religious leader) is *scary* if one lets their
  mind contemplate the 'possibility' of deep, dark conspiracy
  theories being True!!
    Why? Because one can construct a Dark Theory that makes
  as much (if not *more*) sense than the Standard Authorized
  View Of History And Reality promoted in educational
  materials, government pamphlets and corporate advertising.
  (i.e. - The Allies burned a few Jews, but they didn't
   inhale...)

9. Nobody acts alone...Anonymous acts secretly.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@nsm.htp.org
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 05:05:25 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: noneRe: read please.....
In-Reply-To: <55592c1.35ba9c3b@aol.com>
Message-ID: <19980726120503.1157.qmail@nsm.htp.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Sat, 25 Jul 1998 23:02:18 EDT  AT666IND@aol.com wrote:

>HELLO, IS THERE ANY WAY TO GET MY HANDS ON S BOOK THAT SHOWS THE REAL BASEBALL
>PEOPLE AUTOGRAPHS AND THE FAKES SO I KNOW WHAT TO LOOK FOR???

At last!!  Something on-topic for cypherpunks!  And in k-RaD caps too.  AOL fucking rocks man!

Where's Toto?










From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: marlin1374@juno.com
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 14:21:39 -0700 (PDT)
To: marlin1374@juno.com
Subject: Did I get the right email address?
Message-ID: <199807262120.OAA22954@mail1.eni.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


                  
           "SHOW ME THE MONEY!"............Not a problem!

I am about to share with you a unique opportunity to start a very successful 
business or take an existing one to new heights.  By taking advantage of the 
following breakthrough knowledge in marketing trends, you will soon discover 
the art of . . . 

"How to Really Make Money on the Information Superhighway!"

Some of you may already be marketing a product online. Maybe you are even 
making a sizeable profit! Whatever the case may be, no matter how successful 
you are right now, my guess is that your bank account is still not overflowing 
and MORE MONEY with LESS WORK peaks your interest.

FACT 1 :  ANYONE WHO HAS THE DRIVE TO SUCCEED CAN ACTUALLY MAKE 
A SIZABLE PROFIT ON THE INTERNET.

FACT 2 :  FEW PEOPLE ARE WILLING TO TAKE THE TIME TO ACTUALLY DO IT.

FACT 3: THESE PEOPLE ARE CRAZY!!

Seriously friends...Why would people want to pass up an extremely valuable 
money making opportunity?

Many people think that Marketing on the Internet takes more time than any 
human being can spare.  "There is so much to learn" some say.  "I can't even 
find the time to check my E-mail, how will I ever learn enough about the internet 
to make money?" others quote.  The fact is that in many cases this us true, there 
is a wealth of information on the internet about how to "market" this and how 
to "sell" that. Unless you know what to look for, it can become an endless maze 
of dead ends and wasted time.

Now think about this...

WHAT IF? I could provide YOU with an incredible Marketing Package 
that encompasses all the "How To" information you need to be a success 
on the Internet.  This phenomenal package includes DETAILED Internet 
SECRETS (we don't hold anything back, its all here folks!!), which explains 
in detail how to Profit from the Internet Explosion.  Whether you have a 
business of your own or you want to start one.  It's filled with over 45 
packed pages revealing the secrets about electronic marketing so many 
other online marketers DON'T want you to know.

I thought that might interest YOU.

Let me explain.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
 
Right now there are over eighty million people surfing the Internet.  By
the year 2000, that figure is expected to more than double. With so many 
people using the Internet, smart "net"repreneur's are taking advantage 
of what this new (in terms of true commercial application) and exciting 
medium has to offer.

The Internet presents one of the best ways to make money that has 
ever been introduced. On any given day you have the opportunity to 
present your message to more than eighty million people! That's right...
EIGHTY MILLION people. That is more people than one multi million 
dollar advertisment reaches at the Super Bowl. This is the reason so 
many businesses are scrambling to make their presence known on the 
Internet.  Not only does the internet let you reach these people, it lets 
you pitch these people on your product or services. That means it gives 
you the abillity to sell..sell..sell!!  it also gives you the resurces you 
need to  MAKE EXCELLENT MONEY. And we do mean excellent money!!!

CONSIDER THE POSSIBILITIES: You wake up each morning at your 
leisure and put on a pot of coffee. As you sip on your cup of hot "brew" 
you saunter over and turn your computer on. Then, as your monitor 
glows from dim to bright, you find that you have inquiries from all sorts of 
people requesting what you have to offer. Later, after you have 
finished reading your inquiries, you stroll out to your mailbox. You 
find it is filled with letters from people from all across the world! 
What's even better though, is that the letters are FILLED WITH 
MONEY; cash, checks, and money orders. Then, after tallying 
up the totals, you find that you have made anywhere between  
$200 to $1,000 and it isn't even one o'clock in the afternoon. 
 
Think of it: NO boss, NO traffic, and NO annoying Co-workers. 
Wouldn't it feel great to wake up in the morning knowing you 
are going to be making excellent money but don't have to leave 
your house to do it!?!  Wouldn't your life be far less complicated?

The truth is, you can be one of those who become financially
independent via the Internet. AND THE BEST PART IS...IT 
DOESN'T REQUIRE A LOT OF MONEY!!

What it does require is the knowledge of how, what, and where 
to do it. That is where we can help. Here at Natural Instincts, we 
provide you with the knowledge of how to begin earning substantial 
income from your computer via the "information superhighway".   

We can remember how overwhelming the Internet seemed when we
were first introduced to it.  We realized the marketing and profit 
potential the Internet holds, but really had no idea how to pursue it. 
In our thirst for answers and knowledge, we purchased everything 
we could find that had information on the How, What, and Where. 
We spent thousands of dollars, but we now know what works and
what doesn't.  No where, in all of our searching, could we find a 
complete packet of information for all of our questions.  That is why 
we decided to write this report.  We have compiled every proven 
method and secret that we have learned along the way into one 
complete, easy to understand report.

This PROVEN REPORT makes believers of skeptics!  

Sound too good to be true?  That's what others have said.  That is, 
until they received their reports and saw for themselves just how easy
it is to make money on the net! Check out these satisfied customers...


Hi NI,

I received your report and free bonuses last Saturday and wanted to
congratulate you on a job well done. I read through your report "How 
To Profit From The Internet" and I'm very impressed.  I have bought 
other books and manuals about  Online Marketing, Direct Marketing, 
E-mail, Mail Order, etc. Yours is the only one that explains the
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secrets I've been looking for. 

Once again, Great Job!

Sincerely,
John Strand - Satisfied Customer



My father has always told me, "remember, Michele, there is no free 
lunch in life. You get out of life what you put into it."  Through trial 
and error and a somewhat slow frustrating start, I purchased your 
report and finally figured out how to start a very profitable business
from my home. Your report is great, you give the average person 
the tools and secrets to succeed.  I know my dad is very proud of 
me now.

I can't thank you enough =)

Michele B from Oregon


Good Morning,

I hope this finds you well.  I received your program yesterday after-
noon and read it cover to cover.  You have put together a very 
valuable resource indeed.  I have finally found the program that 
tells all!  Your program has given me the tools I need to succeed.  
Your program could truly end up being the best $39.95 I ever spent!

Your the best, I'm making your manual into my internet Bible!!  
Thanks a million!

Best Regards,
Mary W
Florida

To whom it may concern-

I'm usually the first person to write a negative criticism about a product, 
being a "consumer Advocate" columnist for a well respected newspaper.  
To tell you the truth, I ordered your product to do an expose on Internet 
scams.  But, as I was reading through your manual, I discovered what 
truly valuable information your company has put together, and for an 
affordable price.  It is very rare for a "complaint columnist" to give a 
good review, but for the first time, I need to tell you that your manual 
you have put together is OUTSTANDING!!!  I have wanted for the last 
few years to start a business on the Net, but have been deathly scared of 
taking that step to get started.  But then I discovered your manual and put 
the tips and secrets to work. I haven't been able to keep up with the orders, 
and it's only my second month!!!  I can't wait to see where I will be in six 
months!

Thank you,

Rick Johnson  
Alabama


This is a wonderful opportunity, we urge you to take advantage of it. 
You won't find too many people that will give away ALL of their
secrets!!  The majority of the rich people today have copied what  
someone else is or has been doing.  That is what we are offering 
you now--a chance to copy our success!!  It is very easy and we 
ARE for REAL!

Here's a little more incentive to check this out...

~IF YOU ORDER WITHIN 3 DAYS~

We will send you:

 **** FREE $400 Bulk e-mail Software ****
 **** FREE $200 Check by phone, fax, E-mail Software ****
 **** FREE $10 Calling Card ****
 
----PLUS----

We will send you a list of over 100 major search engines ready to
surf on the Internet or to place a free link to your web page.   Also, 
you will receive a list of  98 of the best inexpensive newspapers to 
advertise in (U.S. orders only).  The list is complete with papers name, 
city, phone number, circulation and frequency  (Daily or Weekly).  

We will also include five free BONUS reports that include these topics:
· How to Protect your PC from Viruses
· How to get 300+ Quality Prospect to E-mail you Weekly
· Tips and Secrets to Advertising with the major Online Services
· What's wrong with the World Wide Web 
· Tax Advantages for the Home Business Owner.  
You will find that these five reports by themselves are worth 
thousands of dollars to you. These bonuses alone are worth several 
times the cost of the report.

We will also give you a secret list of over 1500 of the best Web sites 
where you can place a FREE advertisement.  This is a list we use 
every day to run our business and we are giving it to you!  Imagine 
what a great offering we are giving you for FREE! 

And we're not through, if you order RIGHT NOW, we will give you 
15 FREE "How to Reports" that you are free to market and sell on the 
Internet or through mail order for $15-30 each.  They are 45-60 
informational packed pages each.  A great way to start your own 
Net based business!  The topics are;

            1)   Earn Extra Dollars with a Home Based Answering Machine 
            2)   How to Buy a Car with Bad Credit 
            3)   How to Make Thousands of Dollars Winning Contests 
            4)   U.S. Government Auction Sales 
            5)   An Insider's Guide to Finding and Obtaining Grant Money 
            6)   Home Based Business for Fun and Profit 
            7)   How to Get a Job Fast 
            8)   How to Make Money Without Leaving Your House 
            9)   How to Turn the Hobby of Photography into Thousands 
           10)   Making Money at Garage Sales, Swap Meets, and Flea Markets 
           11)   How to Get Paid for Watching TV 
           12)   Getting Your Start in Theater, Television, and Movies 
           13)   Wills or Trusts?  The Case for Living Trusts 
           14)   How To Find Work with the Federal Government 
           15)   How to Write Almost Anything and Get Paid for it!

            50,000 EMAIL ADDRESSES FOR FREE
That's right, we will give you our BEST private list of 50,000 email addresses.  
This list of addresses has been put through our remove and undeliverable lists 
so that it is fresh and responsive.  We are constantly adding and taking 
addresses out of it.  It is absolutely the best 50,000 email addresses you will 
ever get your hands on, BAR NONE!
(please note:  we are only giving this bonus to the first 50 people, so Don't Wait!!!)
 
So you are probably thinking to yourself, this is wonderful, but how much?  
$149.95,  $99.95 maybe even  $79.95?  You may have seen other companies 
marketing "How To" information on the Internet and charging these prices. 
People are actually buying these packages at these prices.  Why?  People 
want to know how to market a product or service the "Right" way on the 
Internet.  "How to Profit from the Internet" could easily sell for any of the 
above prices.  However, we feel that we would rather help those who 
may not have the ability to pay such a price in order to be successful.  
That is why we are offering "How to Profit from the Internet" at the low 
price of $39.95.

That's right, that was not a typo...$39.95.  

I have sold this package at much higher prices in the recent past and will be
forced to raise my prices in the very near future. One of the things
you will learn in my course is to constantly test your market.  I am
currently in the price testing phase of this marketing campaign.
On Augast 15th, 1998, I will be raising the price of this package
back up to $49.95 and eventually up to $79.95 to test the upscale market.
If you act quickly, you have the opportunity to get these materials today
for the unbelievable low price of $39.95.

Still skeptical???  Lets put that to rest right now.  We will make this 
completely risk free for you.  If you are not 100% satisfied with the
information you receive, and believe that you cannot use it to start a
successful business or increase your current business profits, return it
within 30 days and we will refund your money.  No questions asked!!  

Are we nuts?

No, it just shows how confident we are that you'll be delighted with 
the information you'll have...just like the others who are already using 
the information and making money.  You will be surprised how quickly 
you can be earning money on the Internet!

So, if you are seriously interested in learning how to acquire wealth 
by being online, ACT NOW!!  This won't last for long!

Print out this form and mail it to the address below, with your $39.95 
cash, check, money order or credit card information.


Natural Instincts
4676 Commercial St. SE Suite 201 
Salem, Oregon 97302   


Thank you =) 

****Please print out the order form and mail it along with your payment****

************************************************************************
                                  ORDER FORM
************************************************************************

NAME______________________________________________________

ADDRESS___________________________________________________

CITY_______________________ STATE__________ ZIP__________

Website Address____________________________________________

Deliver "How to Profit from the Internet" to the following email address:

E-MAIL ADDRESS____________________________________________
(please note, all orders must include an email address incase we encounter a 
problem with processing.  The 50,000 email addresses will be sent to you by email)

Area code and Phone number:

Day time __________________  Evening:  ________________________

[ ] If you prefer to have the report on disk, please check here.  Please 
include an additional $3.00 for shipping and handling, thank you.
(If you reside outside the United States, please include $2.00 extra)

Please check one of the following:

[ ]  I'm ordering within 3 days, please send my FREE software, $10.00 
calling card, 15 How to Reports, "How To Profit From The Internet" 
and FREE BONUSES including 50,000 email addresses for the 
unbelievably low price of $39.95 today.

[ ]  I'm not ordering within the first 3 days of receiving this letter, so I 
agree to pay $39.95 for "How to Profit from the Internet" by itself, 
less the bonus package.

[Internal code 138702A] This code must be on order form to be processed!!!

Payment Method:                             

[ ] Check 

[ ] Cash

[ ] Money Order

[ ] Credit Card, please make sure to include the mailing address above!
          
   [ ] Visa       [ ]  MasterCard    [ ]  American Express   [ ]  Discover

Name of Credit Card: _____________________________

Name as it appears on Card: _________________________________

Card Number: __________________________________

Expiration Date: _____ / _____

Signature of Card Holder: _________________________.

************************************************************************
"In mail-order work, anyone with imagination, determination, and a
willingness to study and experiment may have very little difficulty
getting started. A number of the most successful one-man operations
obtain an income as high as $40,000 to $100,000 a year."

                - U.S. Department of Commerce
************************************************************************
THE MARKET IS HERE - TODAY!   TAKE ADVANTAGE OF IT!!!!!
After you receive your report, I'll answer any questions time permits 
via email.  I'm looking forward to helping you succeed!







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Jean-Francois Avon" 
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 12:54:09 -0700 (PDT)
To: "e$@vmeng.com" , "Cypherpunks" 
Subject: Computing with DNA...
Message-ID: <199807262009.QAA21570@cti06.citenet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hi everybody!

Have a look at Scientific American August 1998 for an article by L. Adleman (of RSA fame) about how he 
solved a computationnally gigantic problem in less than a second with a few drops of stinking liquid 
:-)    Unfortunately, the article is not available from www.sciam.com, so you'll have to buy the paper 
version of the magazine.   *FASCINATING*

Also, have a look at 

http://cwis.usc.edu/dept/News_Service/chronicle_html/1995.10.23.html/Supercomputing_with_DNA_.html

Ciao

jfa




Jean-Francois Avon, Pierrefonds (Montreal), Canada

Unregistered Firearms in the hands of honest citizens: Liberty's Teeth
Strong Cryptographic tools in the hands of honest citizens: Liberty's Voice

He who beats his sword into a ploughshare will get coerced to plow for 
those who don't...

PGP keys: http://bs.mit.edu:8001/pks-toplev.html
PGP ID:C58ADD0D:529645E8205A8A5E F87CC86FAEFEF891 
PGP ID:5B51964D:152ACCBCD4A481B0 254011193237822C






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: users1@comports.com
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 18:31:17 -0700 (PDT)
To: users1@comports.com
Subject: Dear Prospective Entrepreneur
Message-ID: <199807270113.SAA23863@helix.pathology.ubc.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Dear Prospective Entrepreneur;

I have been an attorney for 26 years, but recently I
joined a company which is only 3 years old, and is 
growing at a fantastic rate; in fact, after only 10 
months old, it was featured in SUCCESS MAGAZINE, and
it has been the #1 rated network marketing opportunity
for the last three years.

What makes this company and this opportunity I am 
offering you so great, is the fact that we (Marketing
Executives) have "EXCLUSIVE" marketing rights in the 
United States to new miracle products that are
providing dramatic benefits to people who have two of
the worst diseases known to mankind.  Americans who
learn about and need our products, can only get
them through us, and not from other companies, or the
corner drug store.

After getting into other companies in the last several
years, and going from company to company, and product
to product (mostly companies that failed, or had falsely
advertised products), I finally found this company that 
is truly "CREDIBLE," has tremendous products, a great
compensation plan, and, best of all, my customers are
calling me back month after month.

Since the products actually sell themselves, I'm NOT
constantly on the phone, or forever hustling all my
relatives and friends. Products that make people feel
better (especially natural products that have no side
effects, and do have a 60 day money back guarantee)
cause people to call me every month, instead of me 
calling them.

Our "exclusive" and "patented" all natural products
have also gone through the double blind clinical 
studies and have produced unbelievable sales in foreign
markets, and have only recently been introduced into
the United States, so our timing is also perfect.

If you are interested in trying our products and/or
looking at this business opportunity, call me toll-free
at 888-203-6668 and leave your name, telephone number,
and/or your address if you want more information. You 
also can respond to exclusive@apexmail.com.

If you are ready to make some changes in your life, free
up some time to spend with your family, and make some
extra money, call me or e-mail me.  WHAT HAVE YOU GOT TO
LOSE?  I made that same call a few months ago, and I 
promise, you will be happy to hear more about this tre-
mendous company, its great products, and about how easy 
it will be for you to make that extra money.

Thanks, 
Clyde Fontenot


This message is brought to you from Clyde Fontenot, 
Attorney, 504 W. Main St., Ville Platte,LA.70586,
318-363-5535.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Global Web Builders 
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 02:39:57 -0700 (PDT)
To: (Recipient list suppressed)
Subject: One Nation August Newsletter
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980726083414.00743588@gwb.com.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Issue 2.3, August 1998

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
PLEASE NOTE: No unsolicited email is sent. If you do not want to be on the
mailing list please say "REMOVE" in the subject line and return this message
in the body.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear One Nation supporter in NSW

Pauline Hanson has just completed a whirlwind tour of Australia.

The tour has been an enormous success - although this aspect of her rallies
has been largely ignored by the media.

You will have noted the coverage given to the protests and for this reason
we would like to draw your attention to the following web pages.

The first demonstrates the links between extremists within the Labor party
and the violence perpetrated by protesters at One Nation meetings:
http://www.gwb.com.au/gwb/news/onenation/left/meljul98.html

The second looks at the organisation behind the student protests:
http://www.gwb.com.au/onenation/school.html

We would draw your attention to the new moderated on-line discussion forum
which you are encouraged to join and participate in. 

This can be found at: http://plato.itsc.adfa.edu.au/politics/

Finally, to make your navigation of the large One Nation web site easier we
have installed a theme based 'site map' which can be found at:
http://www.gwb.com.au/onenation/site

GWB


Scott Balson
Pauline Hanson's Web Master





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Cory 
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 21:42:14 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: enc....
Message-ID: <19980727043530.4083.rocketmail@send1d.yahoomail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





"Bernardo B. Terrado"  wrote:
 
> A virus uses encryption to hide itself (correct?),
> but will the files in a pc be safe from virus when encrypted? why?


a virus can be encrypted or it could leave itself open. usaually the
first.

it all depends on the combination of what virus and encryption
software you use.
Many times a virus will infect by waiting for you to open a file (run,
copy, move)
when it sees a file open it will add itself to the end and then move
the start
of the program to the virus.  When the program is executed it jumps to
the virus who loads itself
into memory and then jumps seamlessly to the beginning of the program,
unperceptibly( if done right)

If your files are encrypted by a program that stays in memory and lets
programs run like normal a virus will run like
normal.  If you have an uninfected file PGPed when you extract a copy
it will become infected like a normal file
however the pgp file will not be infected.  If the encryption is built
into the program and has a checksum 
you will be notified if it is infected but if it just runs a
decryption routine and then starts the program then it 
could be infected before the decryption routine.

in general if you can read/write a file so can a virus.

If you are worried about infection, get an uninfected copy and
make a detached pgp .sig  then run it on your computer in a batch file
so
pgp checks the signature before it runs.  if pgp fails the sig. your
program is infected
each virus is unique and acts differently, remember they are just
written  like normal programs.
If you are indepth interested, search for a virus authors page. 
Anti-virus people are vague so
you don't figure out how to make one but a virus author will probably
have guides on how to make
a virus.  This gives you intimate knowledge of a virus's abilities.
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: CEr1942929@aol.com
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 20:26:55 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: RE:Brother
Message-ID: <41c2b3b5.35bbf35d@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I am trying to find my brother, "Allen Thomas Taylor" I am not sure what year
he was born but I think it was l922, l923.  We have the same Father, "Alva
Thomas Taylor", my name is Christine (Taylor) Ernest, I was born l935, in Mt.
Vernon, Mo..  I have not seen my brother in 60yrs.  The last I heard he was
working for the civil service in Washington, DC, and got married in Maryland.
Any information I would appreciate.

Thank you
Sincerely
Christine Ernest




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC 
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 23:50:54 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: FDR.doc and FDR2.doc
Message-ID: <009C9C78.E5ED3900.9@west.cscwc.pima.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



It seems that the forementioned files never made it to the list
(at least as echoed by infinity.nus.sg), as a result of being
filtered out somewhere along the way due to their excessive size.

Realizing that this was likely the result of filtering for the
benefit of list members, so that they would not be stuck with
wasting their resources downloading large amounts of tripe by]
spamming assholes, I consulted John Gilmore as to what action
to take on this matter.
John informed me that one thing he learned from Dimitri was that,
"The Spammer interprets filtering as common-sense, and routes
around it."

Accordingly, I have broken the files down into FDR1.txt --> FDR8.txt,
so that the lack of AOL'ers competent enough to seriously piss off
list members would not lead to VeteranAryan CypherPunks forgetting
about the GoodOldDays (TM), when we had Sandy Sandfort to kick around
for attempting to put a stop to this kind of bullshit.

Sincerely,

"Flame me, I dare you!"




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC 
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 00:13:16 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: FDR1
Message-ID: <009C9C7C.0C6CD880.1@west.cscwc.pima.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


As to the President, it is an account of an image projected upon the
popular mind which came to be known as Franklin D. Roosevelt. It is
the author's conviction that this image did
not at all correspond to the man himself and that it is now time to
correct the lineaments of this synthetic figure
created by highly intelligent propaganda, aided by mass illusion and
finally enlarged and elaborated out of all
reason by the fierce moral and mental disturbances of the war.

The moment has come when the costumes, the grease paint, the falsely
colored scenery, the technicolored
spotlights and all the other artifices of makeYDup should be put aside
and, in the interest of truth, the solid facts
about the play and the players revealed to the people. 

July, 1948 

Preface to the Popsvox PublishingR edition 

Someone once said that Washington DC is a place where history is taken
for granted and granite mistaken for
history. The new FDR "memorial" is notable for what it forgets. John
T. Flynn, active columnist and author
throughout the Roosevelt years and beyond, made an enormous contribution
to accurate reporting and
genuine understanding of the New Deal. Unfortunately, Flynn's work
has been out of print for decades while
the politically correct elite have not only preserved the myth, they
have now literally cast it in stone. 

Do not despair. The technology of the information age provides a remedy.
Flynn is back, facts, footnotes and
all, and in an electronically enhanced form unimagined in the age when
journalists scribbled on notepads with
pencil stubs. As a MicrosoftR WindowsR help file, it can be searched,
annotated, printed out . . . or even read,
page by pungent page. Even better for students, editorialists or online
newsgroup debaters, the electronic
version is only a mouse-click away when a citation is needed. No more
flipping through paper texts in search of
a passage about the Democratic National Committee or the $3,000.000
income Eleanor took down as First Lady.
Find what you want when you want it. Add your own annotations and memory
joggers. Tools are the human
heritage, as are words and ideas. 

This revived book is produced for the Historical Research Foundation
in New ork whose mission is the
conservation of truth in history. 

- Ed.

Saturday morning, March 4, 1933...the conquering Democrats poured into
the city, hastening to take over after so many hungry
years in the wilderness. 
{Hitler/1933?-sog}

Only a week before an assassin's bullet had barely missed Roosevelt.
It
struck Anton Cermak, the Bohemian mayor and boss of Chicago, who with
Al Smith, had opposed Roosevelt's
nomination. 
he got the bullet intended for Roosevelt {BIG Assumption - sog}and
died a few days later. 

Later, as Roosevelt's train sped from New ork to Washington carrying
himself and
his family, word came to him that aboard another train carrying the
65YDyearYDold Senator Thomas J. Walsh and
his bride of two days, the aged groom dropped dead in his Pullman drawing
room. He was speeding to the
capital to be sworn in as Attorney General. 

Two weeks before the lameYDduck Congress had turned a
somersault and voted the amendment to the Constitution ending Prohibition.

FortyYDone legislatures were in
session waiting eagerly for the chance to approve the wet amendment
and to slap taxes on beer and liquor to
save their empty treasuries. 

The country, the states, the towns needed money YD something
to tax. And liquor was the richest target. "Revenue," said one commentator,
"unlocked the gates for Gambrinus
and his foaming steed." 

first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have
to fear is fear
itself." 

"The means of exchange are frozen in the streams of trade."

"et our distress comes from no failure of substance. We are stricken
by no
plague of locusts3,300,000,000 YD in
addition to all the other specific appropriations for government, into
his hands to be spent at his sweet will in
any way he desired. The great purse YD which is the greatest of all
the weapons in the hands of a free parliament
to oppose the extravagances of a headstrong executive YD had been handed
over to him. The "spendthrift"
Hoover was in California at his Palo Alto home putting his own affairs
in order, while the great Economizer who
had denounced Hoover's deficits had now produced in 100 days a deficit
larger than Hoover had produced in
two years. 

Roosevelt had no wish to stem the
panic. The onrushing tide of disaster was sweeping the slate clean
for him YD at the cost of billions to investors
and depositors. The greater the catastrophe in which Hoover went out
of power the greater would be the
acclaim when Roosevelt assumed power. 

For this drastic decision there could be, of course, but one excuse,
namely that Mr. Roosevelt had a definite
plan and that such a plan could be better carried out with a full disaster.
What, then, was his plan? We shall see
presently.4 

the crisis had assumed a terrifying
aspect. To this was added the fear of inflation and of irresponsible
and even radical measures by the new
President. One of these, of course, was the agitation which went on
behind the scenes for the nationalization of
the whole banking system. Men close to the President-elect were known
to be for this.

Then Glass asked Roosevelt what he was going to do.
To Glass' amazement, he answered: "I am planning to close them, of
course." Glass asked him what his
authority was and he replied: "The Enemy Trading Act" YD the very act
Hoover had referred to and on which
Roosevelt had said he had no advice from Cummings as to its validity.
Glass protested such an act would be
unconstitutional and told him so in heated terms. "Nevertheless," replied
Roosevelt, "I'm going to issue a
proclamation to close the banks." 

After delivering his inaugural address, Roosevelt issued a proclamation
closing all banks.

They decided that the action
must be swift and staccato for its dramatic effect; that the plan,
whatever it might be, must be a conservative
one, stressing conventional banking methods and that all leftYDwing
presidential advisers must be blacked
out during the crisis; and finally that the President must make almost
at the same time a tremendous gesture in
the direction of economy.

w it is difficult to believe that it could
ever have been uttered by a man who before he ended his regime would
spend not merely more money than
President Hoover, but more than all the other 31 Presidents put together
YD three times more, in fact, than all the
Presidents from George Washington to Herbert Hoover. This speech was
part of the plan Moley and Woodin
had devised to sell the banking plan in a single package with the great
economy program. 

To the great audience that listened to the fireside chat, the hero
of the drama YD the man whose genius had led
the country safely through the crisis of the banks YD was not any of
the men who had wrestled with the problem,
but the man who went on the radio and told of the plan he did not construct,
in a speech he did not write. Thus
Fate plays at her ageYDold game of creating heroes. 

a Great Man attended by a Brain Trust to bring understanding first
and then order out of
chaos. 

Actually there are no big men in the sense in which Big Men are sold
to the people. There are men who are
bigger than others and a few who are wiser and more courageous and
farseeing than these. But it is possible
with the necessary pageantry and stage tricks to sell a fairly bright
fellow to a nation as an authentic BIG Man.
Actually this is developing into an art, if not a science. It takes
a lot of radio, movie, newspaper and magazine
work to do it, but it can be done. 
{FDR/Hitler - sog}

For the farmer the New Deal would encourage cooperatives and enlarge
government lending agencies. But the
greatest enemy of the farmer was his habit of producing too much. His
surplus ruined his prices. The New Deal
would contrive means of controlling the surplus and ensuring a profitable
price. 

As for business the New Deal proposed strict enforcement of the antiYDtrust
laws, full publicity about security
offerings, regulation of holding companies which sell securities in
interstate commerce, regulation of rates of
utility companies operating across state lines and the regulation of
the stock and commodity exchanges. 

Roosevelt in his preelection speeches had stressed all these points
YD observing the rights of the states so
far as to urge that relief, oldYDage pensions and unemployment insurance
should be administered by them, that
the federal government would merely aid the states with relief funds
and serve as collection agent for social
insurance.

First of all, his central principle YD his party's traditional principle
of war upon BIG government YD was reversed.
And he set out to build a government that in size dwarfed the government
of Hoover which he denounced. The
idea of a government that was geared to assist the economic system
to function freely by policing and
preventive interference in its freedom was abandoned for a government
which upon an amazing scale
undertook to organize every profession, every trade, every craft under
its supervision and to deal directly with
such details as the volume of production, the prices, the means and
methods of distribution of every
conceivable product. This was the NRA. It may be that this was a wise
experiment but it was certainly the very
reverse of the kind of government which Mr. Roosevelt proposed in his
New Deal. 

Enforcement of the antiYDtrust act was a longtime pet of his party and
it was considered as an essential
instrument to prevent cartels and trusts and combinations in restraint
of trade which were supposed to be
deadly to the system of free enterprise. The New Deal had called loudly
for its strict enforcement. et almost at
once it was suspended YD actually put aside during the experiment YD
in order to cartelize every industry in
America on the Italian corporative model. 
{Fascism! - sog}

First, and most important, was the NRA and its dynamic ringmaster,
General Hugh Johnson. As I write, of
course, Mussolini is an evil memory. But in 1933 he was a towering
figure who was supposed to have
discovered something worth study and imitation by all world artificers
everywhere. 

The NRA provided that in
America each industry should be organized into a federally supervised
trade association. It was not called a
corporative. It was called a Code Authority. But it was essentially
the same thing. These code authorities could
regulate production, quantities, qualities, prices, distribution methods,
etc., under the supervision of the NRA.
This was fascism. The antiYDtrust laws forbade such organizations. Roosevelt
had denounced Hoover for not
enforcing these laws sufficiently. Now he suspended them and compelled
men to combine. 

In spite of all the fine words about industrial democracy, people began
to see it was a scheme to permit business men to combine to put up
prices and keep them up by direct decree or
through other devious devices. The consumer began to perceive that
he was getting it in the neck.

. A tailor named Jack Magid in New Jersey was arrested, convicted,
fined and sent to jail. The crime was that he had pressed a suit of
clothes for 35 cents when the Tailors' Code
fixed the price at 40 cents. The price was fixed not by a legislature
or Congress but by the tailors.

The NRA was discovering it could not enforce its rules. Black markets
grew up. Only the most violent police
methods could procure enforcement. In Sidney Hillman's garment industry
the code authority employed
enforcement police.8 They roamed through the garment district like
storm troopers. They could enter a man's
factory, send him out, line up his employees, subject them to minute
interrogation, take over his books on the
instant. Night work was forbidden. Flying squadrons of these private
coatYDandYDsuit police went through the
district at night, battering down doors with axes looking for men who
were committing the crime of sewing
together a pair of pants at night. But without these harsh methods
many code authorities said there could be
no compliance because the public was not back of it. 

"Mob rule and racketeering had a considerable
degree displaced orderly government."9 

On May 27, 1935, the Supreme Court, to everybody's relief, declared
the
NRA unconstitutional. It held that Congress at Roosevelt's demand had
delegated powers to the President and
the NRA which it had no right to delegate YD namely the power to make
laws. It called the NRA a Congressional
abdication. And the decision was unanimous, Brandeis, Cardozo and Holmes
joining in it. 

But of course he had imposed it not as a temporary expedient but as
a new order and he boasted of it. He had
done his best to impose the dissolution of the antiYDtrust laws on the
country. 

Curiously enough, while Wallace was paying out hundreds of millions
to kill millions of hogs, burn oats, plow
under cotton, the Department of Agriculture issued a bulletin telling
the nation that the great problem of our
time was our failure to produce enough food to provide the people with
a mere subsistence diet.

Oliphant was a lawyer whose reformist addictions overflowed into every
branch of public affairs. A
devout believer in rubber laws, it was easy for him to find one which
could be stretched to include rubber
dollars. 

We are thus continuing to move toward a managed
currency." 

Roosevelt's billions, adroitly used, had broken down every
political machine in America. The patronage they once lived on and
the local money they once had to disburse
to help the poor was trivial compared to the vast floods of money Roosevelt
controlled. And no political boss
could compete with him in any county in America in the distribution
of money and jobs. 

The poll indicated that Long could corral 100,000 voted in New ork
State, which could, in a close
election, cost Roosevelt the electoral vote there. Long became a frequent
subject of conversation at the White
House. 

Dr. Carl Austin Weiss, a young physician,
eluded the vigilance of Long's guards and shot him. 

" A monument stands to the memory of this arch demagogue in the Hall
of Fame of the
Capitol building in Washington and his body rests in a crypt on the
state capitol grounds YD a shrine to which
crowds flock every day to venerate the memory of the man who trampled
on their laws, spat upon their
traditions, loaded them with debt and degraded their society to a level
resembling the plight of a European
fascist dictatorship. 

The Treasury and the Department of Justice went into action and before
long there were income tax
indictments against at least 25 of the Long leaders and henchmen. 

When little men think about large problems the boundary between the
sound and the unsound is very thin and vague. And when some idea is
thrown out which corresponds with
the deeply rooted yearnings of great numbers of spiritually and economically
troubled people it spreads like a
physical infection and rises in virulence with the extent of the contagion.
The spiritual and mental soil of the
masses near the bottom of the economic heap was perfect ground for
all these promisers of security and
abundance. 

They had cooked up for themselves that easy, comfortable potpourri
of socialism
and capitalism called the Planned Economy which provided its devotees
with a wide area in which they might
rattle around without being called Red. 

But the time would come when they would approach much closer
to their dream of a planned people. We shall see that later. 

He was a man literally without any fundamental philosophy. The positions
he took on political and economic
questions were not taken in accordance with deeply rooted political
beliefs but under the influence of political
necessity. 

NRA and the AAA. This was a plan to take the whole industrial and agricultural
life of the country under
the wing of the government, organize it into vast farm and industrial
cartels, as they were called in Germany,as they were called in Italy,
and operate business and the farms under plans made and carried out
under the supervision of government. 

As for the Reds, they did not move in heavily until the second term
and not en masse until the third
term, although the entering wedge was made in the first. And then the
point of entry was the labor movement. 

This thing called revolutionary propaganda and activity is something
of an art in itself.
It has been developed to a high degree in Europe where revolutionary
groups have been active for half a
century and where Communist revolutionary groups have achieved such
success during the past 25 years. It
was, at this time of which I write, practically unknown to political
and labor leaders in this country and is still
unknown to the vast majority of political leaders.

He vetoed that but had
an arrangement with the Democratic leadership that they would pass
it over his head. Thus the President could
get credit for trying to kill it while the Democrats would get credit
for actually passing it. 

Their chief reliance was
upon the charge that the President had usurped the powers of Congress,
attacked the integrity of the courts,
invaded the constitutional prerogatives of the states, attempted to
substitute regulated monopoly for free
enterprise, forced through Congress unconstitutional laws, filled a
vast array of bureaus with swarms of
bureaucrats to harass the people and breed fear in commerce and industry,
discourage new enterprises and
thus prolonged the depression, had used relief to corrupt and intimidate
the voters and made appeals to class
prejudice to inflame the masses and create dangerous divisions. 

Their chief reliance was
upon the charge that the President had usurped the powers of Congress,
attacked the integrity of the courts,
invaded the constitutional prerogatives of the states, attempted to
substitute regulated monopoly for free
enterprise, forced through Congress unconstitutional laws, filled a
vast array of bureaus with swarms of
bureaucrats to harass the people and breed fear in commerce and industry,
discourage new enterprises and
thus prolonged the depression, had used relief to corrupt and intimidate
the voters and made appeals to class
prejudice to inflame the masses and create dangerous divisions. 
. From the moment the
gavel fell to open that wild conclave to the knock of the adjourning
gavel everything that was said and done or
that seemed to just happen was in accordance with a carefully arranged
and managed scenario. The delegates
were mere puppets and answered to their cues precisely like the extras
in a movie mob scene. 

the South had both arms up to its shoulder blades in Roosevelt's relief
and
public works barrel. National politics was now paying off in the South
in terms of billions. When Alf Landon
talked about Roosevelt's invasions of the Constitution, the man on
relief and the farmer fingering his subsidy
check replied "ou can't eat the Constitution."

As to the public debt he said we
borrowed eight billions but we have increases the national income by
22 billions. Would you borrow $800 a
year if thereby you could increase your income by $2200, he asked.
That is what we have done, he answered,
with the air of a man who has easily resolved a tough conundrum. And
though the figures were false and the
reasoning even more so it was practically impossible for a Republican
orator to reason with voters against
these seemingly obvious and plausible figures. 

The President's victory was due to one thing and one thing only, to
that one great rabbit YD the spending rabbit YD
he had so reluctantly pulled out of his hat in 1933. This put into
his hands a fund amounting to nearly 20 billion
dollars with which he was able to gratify the appetites of vast groups
of people in every county in America

. Without the revival of investment there could
be no revival of the economic system. The system was being supported
by government spending of borrowed
funds. 

Roosevelt's unwillingness to compromise now angered his own supporters
who were being forced to carry this
unpopular cause. In the end he had to assure Robinson that he would
have the appointment, and then to
crown Roosevelt's difficulties, Robinson was stricken with a heart
attack in the Senate and died shortly after,
alone in his apartment. 

The Treasury made a practice of keeping tricky books and producing
phony results. It had merely shifted relief payments to other accounts.
They were, in fact, larger than the year
before. 

Then he revealed the extent of his plans YD they
would have to step up spending, forget about balancing the budget and
get along with a two or three billion
dollar a year deficit for two years. Then a conservative would come
into office. That administration would do
what Roosevelt had been promising he would do YD quit government spending.
And then the whole thing would
go down in a big crash.

Then he revealed the extent of his plans YD they
would have to step up spending, forget about balancing the budget and
get along with a two or three billion
dollar a year deficit for two years. Then a conservative would come
into office. That administration would do
what Roosevelt had been promising he would do YD quit government spending.
And then the whole thing would
go down in a big crash.

What could he spend on? That was the problem.
There is only a limited number of things on which the federal government
can spend.

The one big thing the federal government can spend money on is the
army and navy.

The depression which assaulted our unprepared society in 1929 was by
no means a mysterious phenomenon to
those who had given any attention to the more or less new studies in
the subject of the business cycle. It was,
first of all and essentially, one of those cyclical disturbances common
to the system of private enterprise. That
economic system has in it certain defects that expose it at intervals
to certain maladjustments. And this was
one of those intervals. Had it been no more than this it could have
been checked and reversed in two or three
years. But this cyclical depression was aggravated by additional irritants:

1. The banking system had been gravely weakened by a group of abuses,
some of which arose out of the
cupidity of some bankers and others out of ignorance. 

2. A wild orgy of speculation had intruded into the system stimulated
by a group of bad practices in the
investment banking field. 

3. A depression in Europe arising out of special causes there had produced
the most serious repercussions
here. 

The great, central consequence of these several disturbances was to
check and then almost halt completely,
the flow of savings into investment. All economists now know what few,
apparently, knew then YD that in the
capitalist system, power begins in the payments made by employers to
workers and others in the process of
producing goods. And this must be constantly freshened by an uninterrupted
flow of savings into investment
YD the creation of new enterprises and the expansion of old ones. If
this flow of savings into investment slows
down the whole economic system slows down. If it is checked severely
the whole economic system goes into a
collapse. 

throughout Hoover's term one of these YD the ruthless operation of gamblers
in the stock market with the
dangerous weapon of short selling YD continued to add at intervals spectacular
crashes in the market which
intensified the declining confidence of the people. 

But Hoover had against him, in addition to those natural, international
and social disturbances, an additional
force, namely a Democratic House of Representatives which set itself
with relentless purpose against
everything he attempted to do from 1930 on. It had a vested interest
in the depression.

and generally to do all those things he had denounced in Hoover without
the slightest foundation for
the charges.

It was always easy to sell him a plan that involved giving away government
money.
It was always easy to interest him in a plan which would confer some
special benefit upon some special class in
the population in exchange for their votes. He was sure to be interested
in any scheme that had the appearance
of novelty and he would seize quickly upon a plan that would startle
and excite people by its theatrical
qualities.

He did not dream of the
incredible miracle of government BANK borrowing. He did not know that
the bank lends money which it
actually creates in the act of making the loan. When Roosevelt realized
this, he saw he had something very
handy in his tool kit. He could spend without taxing people or borrowing
from them, while at the same time
creating billions in bank deposits. Wonderful! 

Roosevelt
discovered what the Italian Premier Giolitti had discovered over 50
years before, that it was not necessary to
buy the politicians. He bought their constituents with borrowed money
and the politicians had to go along.

Those who, in their poverty and helplessness, refused to surrender
their independence, paid for it. A man in
Plymouth, Pa., was given a whiteYDcollar relief job before election
at $60.50 a month. He was told to change his
registration from Republican to Democratic. He refused and very soon
found himself transferred YD transferred
from his whiteYDcollar job to a pickYDaxe job on a rock pile in a quarry.
There he discovered others on the rock pile
who had refused to change their registration. This was in America,
the America of the men who were chanting
and crooning about liberty and freedom 365 days a year, who were talking
about democracy and freedom for all
men everywhere. 

These primaries of 1938, of course, were the scenes of the great Roosevelt
purge, when distinguished
Democratic senators and congressmen were marked for annihilation.

It had already become a crime for a Democrat to disagree with the administration




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC 
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 00:13:35 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: FDR2
Message-ID: <009C9C7C.1770AB80.5@west.cscwc.pima.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


They were eager
for America to get into a war if it came. But they felt the people
had to be drawn along a little at a time. They
wanted the President to frighten the people a little as a starter.
But he increased the recommended dose. The
reaction was so violent that they felt it put back by at least six
months the purpose they had in mind YD rousing
America to a warlike mood. 

However, following the Panay
incident, Mr. Hull began to churn up as much war spirit as possible
and through the radio and the movies
frantic efforts were made to whip up the anger of the American people.

There never has been in American politics a religion so expansively
and luminously righteous as the New Deal.
>From the beginning to the end it was constant in one heroic enterprise
YD war to the death upon evil, upon greed,
poverty and oppression. It had, in fact, one monstrous enemy against
which it tilted its shining spear seven
days a week and that was SIN. If you criticized the New Deal, you were
for sin. 

There is no vast sum of money in holding
office. The riches are in the perquisites, the graft, legal and illegal,
often collected by men who do not hold
office but who do business with those who do. Some Democratic chieftains
of the newer stripe began to drift
into vice rackets of various sorts.

It was this Tammany at its lowest level which surrendered to the New
Deal and became finally the political tool
of Mr. Roosevelt in New ork. From an oldYDfashioned political district
machine interested in jobs and
patronage, living on the public payroll and on various auxiliary grafts,
some times giving a reasonably good
physical administration of the city government, some times a pretty
bad one, some times very corrupt, some
times reasonably honest, it became a quasiYDcriminal organization flying
the banner of the Free World and the
Free Man. 

Cermak fought Roosevelt's nomination at Chicago, and went to Miami
in February, 1933 to make his peace with
Roosevelt where the bullet intended for Roosevelt killed him.
{Who fired the shot? - sog}

d before the House Committee Investigating UnYDAmerican Activities.
Frey, in a
presentation lasting several days, laid before the Committee a completely
documented account of the
penetration of the CIO by the Communist Party. He gave the names of
280 organizers in CIO unions 

It was the Communists who were engineering the sitYDdown strikes and
who instigated and organized the
Lansing Holiday when a mob of 15,000 blockaded the state capitol and
2,000 of them, armed with clubs, were
ordered to march on the university and bring part of it back with them.
At the Herald Tribune forum in New
ork City about this time the President delivered one of the bitterest
attacks he had ever made on a government
official. It was against Martin Dies for investigating these Communist
influences in the sitYDdown strikes. 

Sidney Hillman would become not only its
dominating mind but Roosevelt's closest adviser in the labor movement
and in the end, though not himself a
Democrat, the most powerful man in the Democratic party. 

Sidney Hillman28 was born in Zargare, Lithuania, then part of Russia,
in 1887. He arrived here in 1907 after a
brief sojourn in England.
it is entirely probable that Hillman, while not a Communist, was at
all times
sympathetic to the Communist philosophy. He was a revolutionist 

It is certain that the Russian revolution set off a very vigorous flame
in Hillman's bosom. In 1922 he hurried
over to Russia with a plan. He had organized here what he called the
RussianYDAmerican Industrial Corporation
with himself as president. Its aim was to operate the "textile and
clothing industry of Russia." Hillman's
corporation sold to labor organizations at $10 a share a quarter of
a million dollars of stock. The circular letter of
the corporation soliciting stock sales among labor unions said: "It
is our paramount moral obligation to help
struggling Russia get on her feet." Hillman went to Russia to sell
the idea to Lenin. He cabled back from
Moscow: "Signed contract guarantees investment and minimum 8 per cent
dividend. Also banking contract
permitting to take charge of delivery of money at lowest rate. Make
immediate arrangements for transmission of
money. Had long conference with Lenin who guaranteed Soviet support."

Hillman was never an outright exponent of Communist objectives. He
was, however, deeply sympathetic to the
Communist cause in Russia and to the extreme leftYDwing ideal in America,
but he was an extremely practical man
who never moved upon any trench that he did not think could be taken.
He never pressed his personal
philosophy into his union and his political activities any further
than practical considerations made wise. 

He was a resolute man who shrank from no instrument that could be used
in his plans. He was a cocksure,
selfYDopinionated man and he was a bitter man, relentless in his hatreds.
He had perhaps one of the best minds
in the labor movement YD sharp, ceaselessly active and richly stored
with the history and philosophy of the labor
struggle and of revolutionary movements in general. When Lewis and
Dubinsky at a later date would leave the
CIO, Hillman would be supreme and would reveal somewhat more clearly
the deep roots of his revolutionary
yearnings that had been smothered for a while under the necessities
of practical leadership. 

There is no doubt that Hillman was one of the first labor leaders to
use the goon as part of his enforcement
machinery.

Why should LaGuardia want to scuttle the investigation of a notorious
murder? Why should the President of
the United States refuse to deliver Lepke to Dewey and thus save him
from going to the chair? Why save the
life of a man convicted as the leader of a murder syndicate? Who was
the leading politician supposed to be
involved? Who was the nationally known labor leader? 

The murder for which Lepke was convicted and wanted for execution by
Dewey and shielded by Roosevelt
was, as we have seen, that of Joseph Rosen. Rosen was a trucking contractor
who was hauling to nonYDunion
factories in other states for finishing, clothing cut under union conditions
in New ork. He was put out of
business by Lepke in the interest of a local of Hillman's Amalgamated
and Rosen was threatening to go to the
district attorney and tell how this was done.

But for some reason there rose to the surface at this
time a lawless element, some of them criminal, some of them lawless
in the excess of their revolutionary zeal,
some of them just plain grafters. And these elements constituted the
most powerful section of those groups
that were supporting the President. This was in no sense the Army of
the Lord, as it was so widely advertised. 

He wanted
ambassadors from their own countries to tell them that other governments
were "looking to Roosevelt as the
savior of the world," as he put it himself. Farley admits this was
done and says it was a mistake and that he said
so at the time. 
With the rise of the New Deal, however, a vast
army of persons appeared on the payroll of the federal government and
because some of the payrolls were
flexible and had no connection whatever with the Civil Service, it
was a simple matter for the government to use
this ancient but now enormously enhanced tool to control votes in particular
localities. 

The story of the third term campaign which we shall now see is the
story of dealing with all these
groups, and the feasibility of doing so successfully was enormously
enhanced by the fact that in September,
1939, just about the time the active work for the coming convention
was under way, Hitler marched into Poland.
{Just happens to fit right in with Planned Government/Economy - sog}

On July 17, 1940, Franklin D. Roosevelt was nominated for the presidency
for the third time. The prologue to
this event was supplied by Europe. 

When the convention met, Willkie
seemed the most unlikely of these candidates, but his strength grew.
Dewey was eliminated on the fourth ballot
and on the sixth, in a contest between Taft and Willkie, the latter
was nominated in one of the most amazing
upsets in convention history. 

The Democrats believed that Willkie would make a formidable opponent.
But from the moment he was
nominated the result of the election could no longer be in doubt. Charles
McNary, Republican leader in the
Senate, was nominated for the vice presidency. The joining of these
two men YD Willkie and McNary YD was so
impossible, they constituted so incongruous a pair that before the
campaign ended McNary seriously
considered withdrawing from the race. 

There was a moment in that convention when one voice was lifted in
solemn warning, the full meaning of which
was utterly lost upon the ears of the delegates. Former President Hoover,
in a carefully prepared address, talked
about the "weakening of the structure of liberty in our nation." He
talked of Europe's hundredYDyear struggle for
liberty and then how Europe in less than 20 years surrendered freedom
for bondage. This was not due to
Communism or fascism. These were the effects. "Liberty," he said, "had
been weakened long before the
dictators rose." Then he named the cause: 

"In every single case before the rise of totalitarian governments there
has been a period dominated by
economic planners. Each of these nations had an era under starryYDeyed
men who believed that they could plan
and force the economic life of the people. They believed that was the
way to correct abuse or to meet
emergencies in systems of free enterprise. They exalted the State as
the solvent of all economic problems. 

These men
shifted the relation of government to free enterprise from that of
umpire to controller. Directly or indirectly
they politically controlled credit, prices, production or industry,
farmer and laborer. They devalued,
pumpYDprimed and deflated. They controlled private business by government
competition, by regulation and by
taxes. They met every failure with demands for more and more power
and control ... 

societies oneYDfourth socialist, threeYDfourths
capitalist, administered by socialist ministries winding the chains
of bureaucratic planning around the strong
limbs of private enterprise. 

Mr. Hoover then undertook to describe the progress of this baleful
idea here in a series of headlines: Vast
Powers to President; Vast Extension of Bureaucracy; Supreme Court Decides
Against New Deal; Attack on
Supreme Court; Court Loaded with Totalitarian Liberals; Congress Surrenders
Power of Purse by Blank Checks
to President; Will of Legislators Weakened by Patronage and Pie; Attacks
on Business Stirring Class Hate;
Pressure Groups Stimulated; Men's Rights Disregarded by Boards and
Investigations; Resentment at Free
Opposition; Attempts to Discredit Free Press. 

e State Planned and Managed Capitalism

Roosevelt executed a political maneuver that beyond doubt caused great
embarrassment to the Republicans. He announced the appointment of Henry
L. Stimson, who had been
secretary of State under President Hoover, as Secretary of War, and
Frank Knox, candidate for vice president
with Landon in 1936, as Secretary of the Navy. 

He was laying his plans cunningly to have himself "drafted." The
movement began some time in 1939 and the leaders in it were Ed Kelly
of Chicago and Frank Hague of New
Jersey.

The debacle was the plan Roosevelt was engineering to
literally put the party out of business by inducing its leaders not
to contest his election. Commentators like
Dorothy Thompson and H.V. Kaltenborn and other proYDwar writers were
calling on the Republicans not to
contest the election. And Roosevelt schemed to induce the presidential
candidates of the party in 1936 to
become Secretaries of War and Navy respectively in his cabinet.

Wallace
He has been pictured as a vague
and impractical mystic, half scientist, half philosopher, with other
ingredients that approach the pictures in the
comic strips of the professor with the butterfly net. 

Wallace brought men like Tugwell into the Department as his UnderYDSecretary
of Agriculture

To understand what made this thoroughly dangerous man tick it is necessary
to look at another widely
advertised side of his nature YD his interest in mysticism. 

Some time in the 'twenties, a gentleman by the name of Nicholas Constantin
Roerich appeared on the American
scene. Roerich was a highly selfYDadvertised great philosopher on the
Eastern Asiatic model. He gathered
around himself a collection of admirers and disciples who addressed
him as their "Guru" YD a spiritual and
religious person or teacher. He dispensed to them a philosophic hash
compounded of pseudoYDogism and
other Oriental occult teachings that certain superior beings are commissioned
to guide the affairs of mankind.
Roerich wrote a long string of books YD "In Himalaya," "Fiery Stronghold,"
"Gates Into the Future," "The Art of
Asia," "Flame in Chalice," "Realm of Light." 

Logvan and Logdomor
were the names by which Horch was known in this mystic circle. 

stories in English language newspapers in China indicated that
Roerich applied to the 15th U.S. Infantry in Tientsin for rifles and
ammunition and that the expedition had
mysterious purposes. 

He cried out in ecstasy in a speech: "The people's revolution is on
the march and the devil and all his angels
cannot prevail against it. They cannot prevail because on the side
of the people is the Lord." Now he was
fighting not George Peek and Hugh Johnson and Harold Ickes. He was
fighting the devil and the bad angels.
And he had on his side the lord, Franklin D. Roosevelt, and the good
angels YD the Democrats and the CIO and,
in good time, he would be joined by Joe Stalin and Glen Taylor, the
singing Senator from Idaho. He would
begin making world blueprints YD filling all the continents with TVAs,
globeYDcircling sixYDlane highways, world
AAAs, World Recovery Administrations, World Parliaments and International
Policemen. 

This was the man chosen for Vice President by Roosevelt who had warned
that his health was not too good
and who forced this strange bird upon his party in the face of a storm
of angry protest. 

. One of Roosevelt's early
acts in foreign affairs was to recognize Soviet Russia. Three months
later YD February 28, 1934 YD Elliott went into a
deal with Anthony Fokker to sell the Soviet government 50 military
planes for a price which would leave a
commission of half a million dollars for Elliott and the same for Fokker

It is estimated that she has received during the 15 years
since she entered the White House at least three million dollars YD
which is not very bad for a lady who had no
earning power whatever before she moved her desk into the Executive
Mansion, a lady whose husband spent a
good deal of time denouncing the greed of men who made less for directing
some of the greatest enterprises in
America.17 

Nevertheless, in spite of these defiances of all the amenities, all
the laws imposed by decency, all the traditional
proprieties and all that body of rules which highYDminded people impose
upon themselves, the Roosevelt family,
through a carefully cultivated propaganda technique not unlike that
which is applied to the sale of quack
medicines, imposed upon the American people the belief that they were
probably the most highYDminded beings
that ever lived in the White House. Behind this curtain of moral grandeur
they were able to carry on in the field
of public policy the most incredible programs which our people, unaccustomed
to this sort of thing, accepted
because they believed these plans came out of the minds of very noble
and righteous beings. 

Why did the President permit his wife to carry on in this fantastic
manner and why did the Democratic leaders
allow her to do it without protest? ou may be sure that whenever you
behold a phenomenon of this character
there is a reason for it. The reason for it in this case was that Mrs.
Roosevelt was performing an important
service to her husband's political plans.

There were never enough people in the country belonging to the more
or less orthodox
Democratic fold to elect Mr. Roosevelt. It was necessary for him to
get the support of groups outside this
Democratic fold. 

In the election of 1944,
Governor Dewey got nearly half a million votes more on the Republican
ticket than Roosevelt got on the
Democratic ticket, but Roosevelt was the candidate of two other parties
YD the American Labor Party of the
Communists and the Liberal Party which was a collection of parlor pinks,
technocrats, pious fascists and
American nonYDStalinist Communists. These two parties gave him over
800,000 votes and it was this that made
up his majority in New ork. The same thing was true in Illinois, in
New Jersey, Connecticut, Massachusetts,
and other large industrial states, although the fact was not so obvious
because the radicals operated inside the
Democratic party where they could not be so easily identified. 

It was in this field that Mrs. Roosevelt performed her indispensable
services to the President. It was she who
fraternized with the Reds and the pinks, with the RedYDfascists and
the technocrats and the crackpot fringe
generally, gave them a sense of association with the White House, invited
their leaders and their pets to the
White House and to her apartment in New ork, went to their meetings,
endorsed their numerous front
organizations

Finally in 1899 when she was 15 years old she was sent to a school
called Allenwood, outside of London. It
was a French school kept by an old pedagogist named Madame Souvestre
who has taught Eleanor's aunt in
Paris before the FrancoYDPrussian war 

After Roosevelt was stricken with infantile paralysis in 1921, she
suddenly found herself for the first time in her
life in a position approaching power on her own feet. While she, with
her rather stern sense of formal
responsibility, made every effort to bring about her husband's recovery,
she also saw the necessity of keeping
alive his interests in public affairs and his contacts and she set
herself about that job. She had already fallen
into acquaintance with leftYDwing labor agitators and she brought these
people as frequently as she could to her
imprisoned husband where they proceeded to work upon a mind practically
empty so far as labor and economic
problems were concerned. The moment a person of Mrs. Roosevelt's type
exposes herself to these infections,
the word gets around radical circles, whose denizens are quick to see
the possibilities in an instrument of this
kind. During Roosevelt's term in Albany she was extensively cultivated
by these groups, so that when she
went to Washington in 1933 they had easy and friendly access to her.

I think it must be said for her that at this point YD in 1933 YD the
country, including its public men, were not too well
informed about the peculiar perils involved in Red propaganda activities.
The Reds seized upon three or four
very popular American democratic cults YD (1) freedom of speech, (2)
the defense of the downtrodden laborer YD
the forgotten man, (3) the succor of the poor. They also began to penetrate
the colleges in both the teaching
staffs and the student bodies through their various front organizations
dominated by Reds. The first attempt to
expose these designs was made by the House Committee on UnYDAmerican
Activities. The attacks upon Martin
Dies and the Dies Committee, as it was known, were engineered and carried
out almost entirely by the
Communist Party. But the Communist Party itself was powerless to do
anything effective and it used some of
the most powerful and prominent persons in the country to do its dirty
work
{Does this  not also apply to all other organizations/religions? -
sog}

oung Communist League and a group of workers including William W.
Hinckley
(Roosevelt/Cremac - Reagan/Brady -- 2 Hinkleys? - sog}

. Here
was the wife of the President of the United States, a separate department
of the government, using the White
House as a lobbying ground for a crowd of young Commies and Pinkies
against a committee of Congress.19 

At this very moment, Joe Lash was living in the
White House as Mrs. Roosevelt's guest, while Joe Cadden and Abbot Simon
were occasional boarders there.
. Joe Lash had been the leader of the
movement in the American Student Union. Lash worked in collaboration
with the Communist Party. After this,
the American Student Union became a mere tool of the Red organization
in America. 

the assembled
young philosophers gave the President and Mrs. Roosevelt a hearty Bronx
cheer. And now, of course, Mrs.
Roosevelt felt they were Communists, although she had rejected all
of the overwhelming evidence before that.
Booing the President suddenly turned them into Communists. 

. A member of Congress, and
ardent New Dealer, visited the White House one morning. While there
he saw Abbot Simon of the national
board of the American outh Congress, come out of one of the bedrooms.
He couldn't believe his eyes. He
asked the White House usher if he was mistaken. The usher assured him
he was not, that this little Commie tool
had been occupying that room for two weeks and sleeping in the bed
Lincoln had slept in. 

These are probably not more than 80,000 or 90,000 in number, if that.
But there are
several hundred thousand, perhaps half a million, men and women in
America, but chiefly in New ork and the
large eastern industrial states, who string along with the Communists
without being members of the party.

The President's father was a sixth generation Roosevelt who played
out decently
the role of a Hudson River squire. He was a dull, formal and respectable
person moving very narrowly within
the orbit set by custom for such a man. By 1900, however, the name
Roosevelt had become a good one for
promotional purposeyYYYY".Y~Y~^Y~SoY~Y~ Y-YYY~Y|Y~Y~cY~Y.Y*YDRY~YxYqY}Y~'YfY~YyY~Y~Yx
Y/Y,Y+Y~Y(AAAAY
YYYEYEEIIIIDNOOOOYxOUUUYY~YaYY YaYYYY
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YYY	Y
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Y~Y$YY"YoYYvYmYY#YYypYs,
because it had become illustrious by reason of Theodore Roosevelt who
belonged to a
very different branch of the family. 

On Franklin D. Roosevelt's mother's side there was certainly nothing
distinguished in the blood. Her father was
a crusty old China Sea trader and opium smuggler. The family had much
of its fortune in soft coal mines 

Roosevelt was born and grew up in the midst of a baronial estate, surrounded
by numerous acres and many
servants and hemmed about with an elaborate seclusion. What sort of
boy he was we do not know, save that
he was carefully guarded from other boys and grew up without that kind
of boyhood association usual in
America.

The only books that really
interested him were books on the Navy, particularly old books such
as appeal to a collector. He did amass a
considerable library in this field. It is to be assumed he read many
of them. But the history of the Navy and its
battles is not the history of the United States or of Europe or of
their tremendous and complex political and
social movements. 

They never elected anybody. They offered the nomination to young Roosevelt
and he took it reluctantly. But this was an auspicious year for the
New ork Democrats. 

In 1912, with the Republicans split in the great TaftYDRoosevelt feud,
the Democrats swept the country and
Roosevelt, though in bed throughout the campaign with typhoid, was
reelected State Senator. When Wilson
entered the White House and someone suggested it would be a good idea
to have a Democratic Roosevelt in
the administration, Franklin Roosevelt was offered the post of Assistant
Secretary of the Navy,

When the First World War ended he was
36. Apparently his service in the Department was satisfactory, though
I have never seen anywhere any
authentic evidence about it one way or the other.

Actually he was not very well known and had absolutely no record of
his own to justify the
nomination. But luck dogged his heels. 
{Luck/good fortune/auscpicious circumstances/ad infinitum - sog}

Then in August, 1921 Roosevelt was stricken with infantile paralysis,
which put an end to his career in politics
for the next seven years. 

During his Harvard days, shortly after his marriage, he and his bride
took a trip to Europe YD a regular tourist's
wandering from city to city. He had not been in Europe since save twice
when he went as Assistant Secretary
during the war on a naval inspection tour for about a month, and at
the end of the war on another tour in
connection with the demobilization of naval forces in Europe.

et somehow his promotion managers whipped up the myth that he
possessed some kind of intimate and close knowledge of

Life up to this had been
a long succession of gifts from Lady Luck, whose attendance he had
come to think of as a settled and
dependable affair. And she had failed him. The visitation of the terrible
sickness had perhaps effaced from his
character the assumption of superior fortune that made him hold his
head so high

In his efforts at recovery he had gone to Warm
Springs, Ga., and spent several years there. 
But Warm Springs became the subject of one of the most curious deals
in the nomination of a man to high
office
he said "one of the reasons he could not stand for governor was because
he had put a great deal
of his personal fortune into Warm Springs, and he felt he should stay
and manage the enterprise so that it
would eventually become a paying proposition."

"Confirming
my telephone message I wish much that I might consider the possibility
of running for governor." Roosevelt
then gave two reasons why he could not: (1) "our own record in New
ork is so clear that you will carry the
state no matter who is nominated" and (2) "My doctors are definite
that the continued improvement in my
condition is dependent on avoidance of a cold climate" and "daily exercise
in Warm Springs during the winter
months." He added: "As I am only 46 years old I owe it to my family
and myself to give the present constant
improvement a chance to continue ... I must therefore with great regret
confirm my decision not to accept the
nomination."31 
{Roosevelt trying to 'back out' of his role as schill... -sog}
Mrs. Roosevelt was in Rochester as a member of the Women's Committee
for Al Smith. So were Ed Flynn and
John J. Raskob, recently named chairman of the National Democratic
Committee to manage Al Smith's campaign
for the presidency.
{...but Elanor is in deep. - sog}

But Flynn told Smith that he believed Roosevelt could be induced to
accept, that his health
treatments were not the real reason for his refusal, that the real
reason was the financial obligations he had
outstanding at Warm Springs, that he was facing a heavy personal loss
but that if this could be gotten out of
the way he might yield. Smith told Flynn to tell Roosevelt they would
take care of his financial problem. "I don't
know how the hell we can do it, but we'll do it some way," he said.32
Flynn suggested that the problem be put
up to Raskob. This was done. Smith asked Raskob to telephone Roosevelt.
Raskob thought it over but decided
to talk to Mrs. Roosevelt about it. 

He asked Mrs. Roosevelt for
her frank opinion. She replied that if her husband were to say his
health would permit him to run then Raskob
could rely on it and that the real reason was the financial problem
at Warm Springs. Everybody got the
impression that Mrs. Roosevelt wanted her husband to run. 

Raskob then asked him to say frankly
what they amounted to. Roosevelt replied: "Two hundred and fifty thousand
dollars." Raskob then brought the
whole matter to a head by saying: "All right. our nomination is important
in New ork State. I am in this fight
to get rid of Prohibition which I believe to be a terrible social curse
and I think the only way to do it is to elect
Al Smith. I am willing therefore to underwrite the whole sum of $250,000.
ou can take the nomination and
forget about these obligations. ou can have a fundYDraising effort
and if it falls short of the total I will make up
the difference." Roosevelt was a little flabbergasted at the offer.
{Elanor was not? - sog}

Roosevelt was built by propaganda, before the war on a small scale
and after the war upon an incredible scale,
into a wholly fictitious character YD a great magnanimous lover of the
world, a mighty statesman before whom
lesser rulers bowed in humility, a great thinker, a great orator YD
one of the greatest in history YD an enemy of evil
in all its forms. 

In his first administration someone was responsible for a very effective
job of selling Roosevelt
to the public. 

But over and above this some cunning techniques were industriously
used to
enhance the picture. For instance, Mrs. Roosevelt took over the job
of buttering the press and radio reporters
and commentators. They were hailed up to Hyde Park for hamburger and
hot dog picnics. They went swimming
in the pool with the Great Man. They were invited to the White House.
And, not to be overlooked, it was the
simplest thing in the world for them to find jobs in the New Deal for
the members of their families. 

*** sog ***
The most powerful propaganda agencies yet conceived
by mankind are the radio and the moving pictures. Practically all of
the radio networks and all of the moving
picture companies moved into the great task of pouring upon the minds
of the American people daily YD indeed
hourly, ceaselessly YD the story of the greatest American who ever lived,
breathing fire and destruction against
his critics who were effectually silenced, while filling the pockets
of the people with billions of dollars of war
money. The radio was busy not only with commentators and news reporters,
but with crooners, actors, screen
stars, soap opera, comedians, fan dancers, monologists, putting over
on the American mind not only the
greatness of our Leader but the infamy of his critics, the nobility
of his glamorous objectives and the sinister
nature of the scurvy plots of his political enemies. The people were
sold first the proposition that Franklin D.
Roosevelt was the only man who could keep us out of war; second that
he was the only man who could fight
successfully the war which he alone could keep us out of; and finally
that he was the only man who was
capable of facing such leaders as Churchill and Stalin on equal terms
and above all the only man who could
cope successfully with the ruthless Stalin in the arrangements for
the postYDwar world. 
*** sog ***

The ordinary man did not realize that Hitler and Mussolini were made
to seem as brave, as strong, as wise and
noble to the people of Germany and Italy as Roosevelt was seen here.
Hitler was not pictured to the people of
Germany as he was presented here. He was exhibited in noble proportions
and with most of those heroic
virtues which were attributed to Roosevelt here and to Mussolini in
Italy and, of course, to Stalin in Russia. I
do not compare Roosevelt to Hitler. I merely insist that the picture
of Roosevelt sold to our people and which
still lingers upon the screen of their imaginations was an utterly
false picture, was the work of false propaganda
and that, among the evils against which America must protect herself
one of the most destructive is the evil of
modern propaganda techniques applied to the problem of government.

{Eugenics was in vogue here, as well as Germany, and would have formed
the
science of the future *immediately* if Hitler had not been linked to
its 'final
outcome', giving it a bad name. - sog}

There
was really nothing complex about Roosevelt. He was of a wellYDknown
type found in every city and state in
political life. He is the wellYDborn, rich gentleman with a taste for
public life, its importance and honors, who finds
for himself a post in the most corrupt political machines, utters in
campaigns and interviews the most pious
platitudes about public virtue while getting his own dividends out
of public corruption one way or another. 

e NRA Act
provided an appropriation of $3,300,000,000 which the President was
given to be spent for relief and recovery at
his own discretion. He now had in his hands a sum of money equal to
as much as the government had spent in
ten years outside the ordinary expenses of government. He decided how
it should be spent and where. If a
congressman or senator wanted an appropriation for his district, instead
of introducing a bill in Congress, he
went up to the White House with his hat in his hands and asked the
President for it. All over the country,
states, cities, counties, business organizations, institutions of all
sorts wanted projects of all kinds. Instead of
going to Congress they went to the President. After that congressmen
had to play along with the President or
they got very little or nothing for their districts. This was the secret
of the President's power, but it was also a
tremendous blow at a very fundamental principle of our government which
is designed to preserve the
independence of the Congress from the Executive. 

In the same way, blankYDcheck legislation led to the subservience of
Congress and the rise of the bureaucracy.
Under our traditional system, Congress alone could pass laws. The executive
bureau merely enforced the law.
But now Congress began to pass laws that created large bureaus and
empowered those bureaus to make
"regulations" or "directives" within a wide area of authority. Under
a law like that the bureau became a
quasiYDlegislative body authorized by Congress to make regulations which
had the effect of law. This practice
grew until Washington was filled with a vast array of bureaus that
were making laws, enforcing them and
actually interpreting them through courts set up within the bureaus,
literally abolishing on a large scale within
that area the distinction between executive, legislative and judicial
processes. 

Many of these bureaus were never even authorized by Congress. Even
the Comptroller General of the United
States, who audits the government's accounts, declared he had never
heard of some of them. They were
created by a new method which Roosevelt exploited. Instead of asking
Congress to pass a law, set up a bureau
and appropriate money, the President merely named a group of men who
were authorized by him to organize a
corporation under the laws of the states. This done, there was a government
corporation instead of a bureau
and a group of corporation directors instead of commissioners. The
Reconstruction Finance Corporation was
given a blanket appropriation by Congress and authority to borrow money.
It borrowed twenty or more billions.
The RFC would buy the stock of a new corporation and lend it money
YD ten, fifty or a hundred million, billions in
some cases. Thus the President bypassed Congress and the Constitution
and engaged in activities as
completely unconstitutional as the imagination can conceive, such as
operating business enterprises in Mexico
and Canada. By means of the blankYDcheck appropriations, the blankYDcheck
legislation and the government
corporation, there is no power forbidden to the government by the Constitution
which it cannot successfully
seize. And if these techniques are permitted to continue the Constitution
will be destroyed and our system of
government changed utterly without a vote of the people or any amendment
to the Constitution. Roosevelt by
his various hit or miss experiments all designed to get power into
his hands, prepared a perfect blueprint for
some future dictator of the modern school to usurp without very much
difficulty all the powers he needs to
operate a firstYDclass despotism in America. 

Having changed the Neutrality Act, given a million army rifles to England
and increased the army to 1,500,000,
the President took the next step YD he handed over to Britain 50 destroyers
belonging to the American navy
without authority of Congress. Those men and women who formed the various
committees to induce this
country to go into the war approved these moves. They were honest about
it and logical, because they were
saying openly we should give every aid, even at the risk of war. But
the President was saying he was opposed
to going to war and that he was doing these things to stay out of war.
I do not here criticize his doing these
things. I criticize the reason he gave, which was the very opposite
of the truth. At the time he did these things,
83 per cent of the people month after month were registering their
opposition to getting in the war. 

After the 1940 election, in fact early in 1941, the President's next
decision was the LendYDLease proposal. Senator
Burton K. Wheeler declared that this was a measure to enable the President
to fight an undeclared war on
Germany.

The truth is that the President had made up his mind to go into the
war as early as October, 1940. To believe
differently is to write him, our naval chiefs of staff and all our
high military and naval officers down as fools. 

The answer must be that Roosevelt lied to the people for their own
good. And if
Roosevelt had the right to do this, to whom is the right denied? At
what point are we to cease to demand that
our leaders deal honestly and truthfully with us? 

There must be a thorough philosophical inquiry into the limits within
which this convenient discursive weapon
can be used. It has been generally supposed that our diplomats are
free to lie to foreign diplomats, also that in
war and on the way into war we are free to lie ad libitum to the enemy.
The right of the President YD and maybe
certain lesser dignitaries YD to lie to our own people and, perhaps,
in certain defined situations, to each other
ought to be explored and settled. Thus it may be used impartially by
the representatives of all parties. It does
not seem fair to limit the right of lying only to good and truthful
men. 
(TruthMonger Lives!!! - sog}

President and the
Prime Minister issued what they called a Joint Declaration. The most
important parts of that document were the
first three paragraphs: 

"First, their countries seek no aggrandizement, territorial or otherwise.

"Second, they desire to see no territorial changes that do not accord
with the freely expressed desires of the
peoples concerned. 

"Third, they respect the right of all peoples to choose the form of
government under which they will live and
they wish to see sovereign rights and selfYDgovernment restored to those
who have been forcibly deprived of
them." 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC 
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 00:13:56 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: FDR3
Message-ID: <009C9C7C.2368A280.7@west.cscwc.pima.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


There was no reason for meeting at sea save
the purely spectacular features which Roosevelt always loved. The dramatic
effect of the meeting was very
great. It made a thunderous radio story and massive headlines. But,
as was so characteristic of Roosevelt, the
great declaration of principles was a mere incident of the meeting.
The purpose was wholly military. 

Three weeks after Pearl Harbor, Roosevelt sent for all the representatives
in America of these occupied
countries and said to them: 

"Be assured, gentlemen, that the restoration of the countries occupied
by Germany and suffering under the
Axis yoke is my greatest concern, which is shared in like degree by
Mr. Churchill. We promise that all will be
done to insure the independence of these countries." 

Churchill was present. He turned to the Polish Ambassador and said:

"We will never forget what glorious Poland has done and is doing nor
what heroic Greece and Holland have
done in this war. I hope I need not add that Great Britain has set
herself the aim of restoring full independence
and freedom to the nations that have been overrun by Hitler."

These reassurances were to be repeated many times with varying oratorical
flourishes. And as for the "Atlantic
Charter," which was nothing more than a screen to hide what had actually
been done at Placentia Bay, a
handsome copy of it was made, bearing the names of Churchill and Roosevelt,
and placed on exhibition in the
National Museum in Washington, where crowds viewed it with reverence
as one of the great documents of
history. 

. On November 27, just ten
days before the attack, the President told Secretary Stimson, who wrote
it in his diary, that our course was to
maneuver the Japanese into attacking us. This would put us into the
war and solve his problem.

The Board of Economic Warfare was created to control the export of
all materials seeking private
export and to look after the procurement of all materials essential
to the war effort, except arms and munitions.
Vice President Wallace was named chairman of the Board of Economic
Warfare (BEW). 

There was an element of "cloak and dagger" in this institution. It
was at war with Hitler and Hirohito in the
markets of the world. It bought things we needed. But it also bought,
where necessary, things we did not need
in order to preclude the enemy getting them. This was called "preclusive"
buying. It issued thousands of
export licenses every day. It was quite a bureau and it bulged with
bureaucrats. At the top, next to Wallace,
was a somewhat cheaper edition of Wallace YD an authentic New Deal bureaucrat,
if there ever was one. He was
Milo Perkins, executive director. 

Perkins was a man with a soul YD one of
those souls that keeps making a lot of noise inside his body. He went
in for art and music and finally
Theosophy. The New Republic said of him that "for nine years at nine
every Sunday morning, he donned his
priestly robes, took along his sons and acolytes and preached to a
congregation of fifty people."

By 1943 the BEW had 200 economic commandos in the field fighting Hitler
in the market places of the world and
around 3,000 in Washington directing their weird operations
Although this outfit spent $1,200,000,000, no law ever authorized it,
and the Senate never confirmed the
appointment of Wallace or Perkins. The President "grabbed the torch"
and created it by edict.

Of course, a great legion of economic soldiers had to have a chief
economist. How they picked him I do not
know. But these two great geopolitical warriors YD Wallace and Perkins
YD came up with a gentleman named Dr.
Maurice Parmalee, born in Constantinople. 
Parmalee wrote another book labeled "Bolshevism, Fascism and the Liberal
Democratic State." In this
he renders it feasible to introduce a planned social economy much more
rapidly than has been the case in the
U.S.S.R. ...The superficial paraphernalia of capitalism can be dispensed
with more quickly than in the Soviet
Union." But the doctor had strayed into much lighter fields of literature.
He had also written a book called
"Nudism in Modern Life" which is secluded in the obscene section of
the Library of Congress. In it the doctor
revealed his interest in a science called Gymnosophy, a cult of the
old gymnosophists who it seems were
ancient Hindu hermit philosophers who went around with little or no
clothing. 

"these gymnosophist nudist colonies furnish excellent opportunities
for experiments
along socialist lines ... Customary nudity is impossible under existing
undemocratic, social and economic and
political organization." 

A new chief economist was brought in YD Dr. John Bovingdon.
Bovingdon was no fool. He went to Harvard and graduated with honors,
which is more than Mr. Roosevelt did.
But he, too, was one of those free spirits of the wandering winds who
had managed to live for a while in the
Orient, three years in Europe and England, two years in Russia and
for smaller terms in 22 other countries. His
Harvard class reunion book said he "engaged in art activities, painting
on fabrics, poetry, dancing, acting,
consultant on the Moscow Art Theater, oneYDman commercial monodrama
programs, weaving, sandalYDmaking"
and so on. In 1931 the police in Los Angeles raided a Red pageant for
a Lenin Memorial which Bovingdon was
staging. The experience shook Mr. Bovingdon terribly and he went to
Russia. He got a job in Moscow as a
director of the International Theatre. He worked as a journalist in
the world of free Russian speech, wrote radio
scripts and plays. He decided to return to the United States to make
us understand Russia. 
In January, 1938, he appeared in Long Beach,
California, at the town's first "Communist Party celebration on the
14th anniversary of Lenin's death." 

By what curious movement of the stars did these weird ideological brothers
turn up on posts of the
greatest importance in the councils of the New Deal? As fast as one
was pushed out another moved in. It could
not be by chance, since this happened in practically every important
bureau.
{Can you say 'conspiracy?...sure you can... - sog}

These two strange birds were not isolated cases. The UnYDAmerican Activities
Committee gave Wallace a list of
35 Communists in the BEW. That information was merely brushed aside
with some insulting smear against the
Committee. 

It mattered not what the New Dealer touched, it became a torch to be
grabbed, it became an instrument for use
in his adventures in social engineering, and after June, 1941 when
Hitler turned on his partner Stalin, these
bureaus became roosting places for droves of Communist termites who
utilized their positions as far as they
dared to advance the interests of Soviet Russia and to help "dispense
with the superficial paraphernalia of
capitalism" in this country under cover of the war. 

By no means a basically bad person, he was
congenitally incapable of resisting the destructive personal effects
of power. 

*** sog ***
>From the four corners of the land, as well as from the pink and Red
purlieus of New ork and Chicago and
every big city, came the molders of the Brave New World.
*** sog ***

They put their busy fingers into everything. They dictated women's
styles, the shapes of women's stockings;
they told butchers how to carve a roast; they limited the length of
Santa Claus' whiskers in department stores. 

At one time there was an almost complete breakdown of food distribution
throughout the United States. The
paper work required of an ordinary small merchant was so extensive
that it was practically impossible to comply
with.

These rules and regulations became so irksome that people ignored them.
Then the OPA set up a nationwide
network of courts before which citizens could be hauled up and tried
for breaking laws enacted by OPA
bureaucrats. If convicted, they could, under OPA rulings, have their
ration cards taken away from them YD
sentenced to starve. 

One may talk about the profits of war, but there were in truth
little profits for honest men because the government YD and rightly
YD during the war drained away in drastic taxes
most of the profits. 

In the financing and supervision of the war effort from
Washington practically every fiscal crime was committed. And the plain
evidence of that is before us in the bill
for the war. Few realize how vast it was. For the mind, even of the
trained financier, begins to lose its capacity
for proportion after the figures pass beyond the limit of understandable
billions. The war cost I reckon at 363
billion dollars. 

Chapter Eight - The Thought Police

1.

If there is one department of human struggle which the radical revolutionist
understands and loves it is the war
that is waged on the mass mind; the war that is carried on with poisons
distilled in the mind to produce bias
and hatred. It would be strange indeed if we did not find some of the
practitioners of this dark art from New
ork and some of the offYDscourings of Europe's battered revolutionary
emigres numerously entrenched in that
thoroughly unYDAmerican institution during the war which was known as
the OWI YD the Office of War
Information. 

It began with a thing called the Office of Facts and Figures.
a drove of writers and journalists whose souls were enlisted in the
great crusade to bring on the Brave
New World of the Future. It was in fact an agency for selling Roosevelt's
Third New Deal and Roosevelt
himself to the people under the guise of "maintaining public morale"
and conducting "psychological warfare."

, OWI spent $68,000,000 and had 5,561
agents scattered all over the world.

But OWI had other tasks than selling America to the Arabs. It was also
busy selling Russia to the Americans.
The chief of the Foreign Language Section of OWI was a young gentleman
28 years old who had spent his
entire life on New ork's East Side, who spoke no foreign language
and yet had the decision on whether news
should be released to Europe or not. Anybody who disagreed with his
high admiration for our Soviet ally was
labeled a fascist. There was another child wonder YD 23 years old YD
who was the Russian expert of the OWI and
who saw to it that nothing went out that was displeasing to the objectives
of our noble ally YD including
grabbing ugoslavia. OWI's broadcasts to Poland ended not with the
Polish national anthem but with a song
adopted by the Polish emigres in Moscow who were known as Stalin's
"Committee of Liberation." The expert in
charge of the Polish section was actually born in Poland, but left
there and spent the rest of his life in France
where he was notorious as a Communist. He fraternized with the Vichy
government while Hitler and Stalin were
pals, but when Hitler invaded Russia he came to America and quickly
became OWI's expert in explaining
American democracy to the people of Poland.51 

The deputy director of the Pacific and Far Eastern Area was a British
subject until he got a government job in
Washington in 1942. While running this important bureau for OWI, he
wrote a play which was produced at
Hunter College. Burton Rascoe, reviewing it, said: "Its most conspicuous
purpose is to idealize the Red Army
in China, to defame the Chungking government under Chiang KaiYDshek
and to ridicule the political, social and
educational ideas of the vast majority of the American people."52 

The men, material, cable and wireless time used up by OWI were immense.
It ran 350 daily radio programs and
had a daily cableYDwireless output of 100,000 words. It was the world's
largest pamphlet and magazine publisher
and a big movie producer, sending shorts to every country in the world.
It sent out 3,500 transcribed
recordings a month and turned out 50 movie shorts a year. The content
of most of this material was pure drivel.

All of this work was not just naive. OWI printed 2,500,000 pamphlets
called "The Negro in the War,"54 with
pictures of Mr. and Mrs. Roosevelt, the Negroes' friends, in preparation
for the fourthYDterm campaign. It printed
a handsome volume called "Handbook of the United States"55 and gave
a British firm the right to publish it.
This gave a history of America, with the story from Leif Ericson's
discovery up to 1932 in four and oneYDhalf
pages. The rest of the history was devoted to Roosevelt and his New
Deal. This was in 1944 and a national
election was coming and England was jammed with American soldiers who
could vote. 

It had a department that supplied the pulp paper magazines with direction
and suggestions on how to slant
mystery and love stories. Western story writers were told how to emphasize
the heroism of our allies YD you
know which one. Writers were told to cast their soap operas with silent,
dogged Britons, faithful Chinese and
honest Latins. They must portray Japanese as having set out to seize
our Western seaboard and the sly and
treacherous characteristics of the Jap must be contrasted with the
faithfulness of the Chinese. They suggested
that Sax Rohmer's Fu Manchu be turned into a Jap instead of a Chinese.

When the war began the government, recognizing the need for protecting
our military operations from leaks
through careless or uninformed press reporting, organized the Office
of Censorship headed by Byron Price, an
able official of the Associated Press. To this bureau was given the
power to monitor all communications. It set
up a censorship organization which all publishers and broadcasters
voluntarily cooperated with. It worked
admirably and Mr. Price won the unstinted approval of the press for
his capable and tactful, yet firm, handling
of this difficult problem. No other government agency had any authority
whatever to engage in this activity.
And it was never intended that anybody should have the power to attempt
to interfere with the rights of
citizens to discuss with freedom all political questions, subject only
to the obligation not to divulge information
that would aid the enemy or defeat our military operations. 

Nevertheless, the OWI and Federal Communications Commission (FCC) took
upon themselves the power to
carry on the most extensive propaganda among, and the most dangerous
interference with, the
foreignYDlanguage broadcasting stations. Of course the ordinary American
official was hardly aware of the
opportunities this kind of thing gave to those who had political or
ideological axes to grind. 

It was important to see that nothing subversive and nothing that would
adversely affect the war effort
was used. And for this purpose the Office of Censorship was admirably
equipped and managed. But the FCC
decided that it would take a hand, not merely in monitoring the stations
but in literally directing and controlling
them. The OWI similarly arrived at the same conclusion. It also set
up a division for dealing with the problems
of the foreignYDborn through radio. 

Mr. Eugene L. Garey, chief counsel of the Congressional Select Committee
Investigating the FCC, speaking of
these conditions said: 

"From the record thus far made it appears that, in one foreign language
broadcasting station in New ork City,
the program director, the announcer, the script writer, the censor,
and the monitor of the ItalianYDlanguage
programs are all aliens or persons owing their positions to the Office
of War Information, with the approval of
the FCC. 

"The situation thus portrayed is not peculiar to this single station,
or to this one city. Information in our
possession indicates that the same situation prevails generally in
the foreign language stations throughout the
country. Every such key position in each of the three radio stations
presently under investigation are found to
be similarly staffed. These staffs select the news, edit the script,
and announce the program. The program, in
turn, is censored by them, monitored by them, and is presented under
the direction of a program director of
similar character. 

"From these apparently unrelated facts the picture must be further
developed. 

"OWI had the men and the material. It had the proper dye to color the
news. It also had the desire to select and
censor the news. What it lacked was the power, or perhaps more accurately
stated, even the color of power, to
carry their designs into effect. Hence the need to enlist the Federal
Communications Commission in its purpose.

"True it is that the Federal Communications Commission had no such
lawful power, but the Federal
Communications Commission did have the power to license and hence the
power to compel obedience to its
directions. The record now shows their unlawful use of this power.

"Working together in a common purpose, the Federal Communications Commission
and the Office of War
Information have accomplished a result that compels pause YD and presents
the solemn question of 'Whither are
we going?' 

"A division called the War Problems Division was created by the Federal
Communications Commission, and a
staff of attorneys began to function. 

"This division was not a regulatory body. It was not formed to instruct,
or supervise, or to correct. It was
formed for the avowed purpose of unlawfully liquidating all of the
radio personnel in the foreignYDlanguage field
that did not meet with its favor. A real gestapo was created and a
lawless enterprise was launched. 

"It is suggested that we accept this unlawful situation as a benevolent
expedient of the moment, but no such
purpose as we find here disclosed, however benevolently cloaked, can
justify the practices we find. All tyranny
begins under the guise of benevolence. 

"The voices of these aliens go into our homes, and the unwary are led
to believe that they speak with authority
and official approval. They even censor our Christmas and Easter religious
programs, and tell us what music we
may hear. The FCC is alarmed about whether we will react properly to
news furnished by our national news
agencies. Apparently we can still read the news in our press, but we
can only hear what these aliens permit us
to. What next medium of communications will receive the benevolent
attention of these misguided zealots?
Obviously, the press. 

"These interpreters of our national policy YD these slanters of our
news YD these destroyers of free speech YD are
alien in birth, alien in education, alien in training and in thought.

"And still these are the people who are permitted to mold our thoughts
YD to tell us what America's war aims and
purposes are. These people are in position to color, to delete, or
to slant, as they see fit, in accordance with
their own peculiar alien views and ideologies. 

"Persons are being accused of being proYDfascist, and that without proof
and without trial. Persons suspected of
being proYDfascist, and without proof, have been removed from the air
and replaced by wearers of the Black Shirt
... 

"If the radio can thus be controlled in August, 1943, there is nothing
to prevent the same control from slanting
our political news and nothing to prevent the coloring of our war aims
and purposes when peace comes."57 

In the presence of a government which had enlarged its power over the
lives and the thoughts and opinions of
citizens and which did not hesitate to use that power, the whole citizenry
was intimidated. Editors, writers,
commentators were intimidated. Men whose opinions did not conform to
the reigning philosophy were driven
from the air, from magazines and newspapers. While American citizens
who were moved by a deep and
unselfish devotion to the ideals of this Republic YD however wrongYDheaded
that may be in the light of the new
modes of "freedom" YD were forced into silence, the most blatant and
disruptive revolutionary lovers of the
systems of both fascism and Communism and that illegitimate offspring
of both YD Red fascism YD were lording it
over our minds. 

All this was possible for one reason and one reason only YD because
the President of the United States
countenanced these things, encouraged them and in many cases sponsored
them, not because he was a
Communist or fascist or held definitely to any political system, but
because at the moment they contributed to
his own ambitions. 

When a nation is at war, its leaders are compelled by the necessities
of practical administration to use every
means at hand to sell the war to the people who must fight it and pay
for it. As part of that job it is usual to
include the leader himself in the package. He is therefore portrayed
in heroic proportions and colors in order to
command for his leadership the fullest measure of unity. War, as we
have seen, puts into the hands of a leader
control over the instruments of propaganda and opinion on an everYDincreasing
scale. In our day the press, the
radio, the movies, even the schoolroom and the pulpit are mobilized
to justify the war, to magnify the leader and
to intimidate his critics. The citizen who is hardy enough to question
the official version of the leader and his
policies may find himself labeled as a public enemy or even as a traitor.
Hence as the war proceeds, amidst all
the trappings which the art of theater can contribute, it is possible
to build up a vast fraud, with an
everYDmounting torrent of false news, false pictures, false eulogies
and false history. After every war many years
are required to reduce its great figures to their just proportions
and to bring the whole pretentious legend back
into focus with truth. 

the public was treated to the royal spectacles off the coast
of Newfoundland aboard the Augusta, at Quebec, Casablanca, Moscow,
Cairo, Teheran and finally at alta.
Eloquent communiques pretended to inform the people of what had been
agreed on.
We now know that these communiques told us little of what had happened;
that the whole story lay, for long,
behind a great curtain of secrecy; that much YD though not all YD has
now been painfully brought to light and that
what stands revealed is a story very different from that heroic chronicle
of triumphs with which we were regaled
at the time. 

As Roosevelt saw it, Stalin was his great target. He began by completely
deceiving himself about Stalin. First of
all, he decided he must cultivate Stalin's good will and to do this
he convinced himself he must sell Stalin to our
people. Accordingly the instruments of propaganda which he could influence
YD the radio and the movies and to
a considerable degree, the press YD were set to work upon the great
task. 

Under the influence of this benevolent atmosphere the Reds in New ork
and their compliant dupes, the
fellowYDtravelers, swarmed into Washington and presently were sitting
in positions of power or influence in the
policyYDmaking sections of the government. Joe Davies had been induced
to go to Moscow, wrote his notorious
"Mission to Moscow," a jumble of obvious fictions which were later
transferred to the screen several times
exaggerated and shot into millions of minds in movie houses. 

We know now from the election returns
of 1944 that the Reds had in their hands enough support to have turned
the tide against Roosevelt. In New
ork State, for instance, Roosevelt won its 47 electoral votes by a
majority of 317,000. But he got 825,000 votes
from the Red American Labor Party dominated by the Communists, which
had also nominated him, and the
American Liberal Party made up of the pinks, which also nominated him.
Without these votes he would have
lost the state. He dared not defy these two powerful groups. On the
other hand, he was in a very deep hole
with the votes of the Polish, Lithuanian, Serbian and other Baltic
and Balkan peoples living in America who
were citizens. He had betrayed the Poles, the Serbs and the Baltic
peoples. But he had managed to keep it dark.
Somehow he must avoid any publication of the truth until after the
election. 

They made a decision at Quebec which has up to this moment paralyzed
utterly the
making of a stable peace in Europe and is pregnant with consequences
so terrible for the future that the mind
draws away from them in consternation.

Secretary Hull said: "This was a plan of blind vengeance ... It failed
to see that in striking at Germany it was
striking at all Europe." The proposals "that the mines be ruined was
almost breathtaking in its implications for
all Europe."

Beyond all this, of course, was our dignity as a civilized
people. The barbarians could sweep into enemy countries and ravage
their fields, burn their cities and murder
their leaders. This is a job from which a civilized people must recoil
if they have not lost their souls.

Roosevelt agreed to the Morgenthau Plan to destroy German industry
and to reduce Germany to a country
primarily agricultural and pastoral. Secretaries Hull and Stimson did
not know anything about it until four days
after it was done. 

e the contents of the Morgenthau Plan leaked to the papers and
Roosevelt became alarmed at the violence of the reaction, a fine evidence
of the fundamentally decent nature of
the majority of Americans. 

In the end the President was persuaded to get out of this appalling
agreement so far as destroying the mines of
the Ruhr were concerned. But Stimson declares "the same attitude remained,"
and the whole world now knows
of the frightful wreckage that was carried on in Germany and the blow
to the economy of all Europe that was
delivered in the name of "blind vengeance" and immortal hatred. 

The administration was now the hopeless prisoner of these demanding
and ruthless radical labor
leaders, who had shown their ability to elect or defeat the Democratic
party, who had filled all the departments
and bureaus with their agents and who had insinuated their experts
into the CIO labor unions and their
propagandists into the radio, the movies and all the great instruments
of communication and opinion YD a fact
which Mr. Roosevelt's successors would have to face when the war ended.

What had become of the Atlantic Charter? On December 20, 1944, the
President at a press conference was
asked about the Charter which he and Churchill had signed. His reply
literally bowled over the correspondents.
There was not and never had been a complete Atlantic Charter signed
by him and Churchill, he replied. Then
where is the Charter now, he was asked. He replied: "There wasn't any
copy of the Atlantic Charter so far as I
know." It was just a press release. It was scribbled on a piece of
paper by him and Churchill and Sumner Welles
and Sir Alexander Cadogan. It was just handed to the radio operator
aboard the British and American warships
to put on the air as a news release. Further inquiry revealed that
Stephen Early had handed it out on his own
with the signatures of Churchill and Roosevelt attached. And over on
the wall of the National Museum in
Washington, beautifully framed and illuminated after the manner of
an ancient document YD like Magna Carta or
the Declaration of Independence YD was the great Atlantic Charter itself,
with the signatures of Roosevelt and
Churchill. Daily visitors stood before it as before some great historic
document. John O'Donnell, of the New
ork Daily News, asked the curator where he got it. He answered that
it came from the Office of War
Information. They had "loaned" the precious document to the National
Museum. By inquiry at the OWI YD that
prolific fountain of phony news YD O'Donnell learned that OWI had gotten
it up and affixed the names of
Roosevelt and Churchill. They had printed 240,000 copies of it. O'Donnell
went back to the Museum with this
information. And lo! the great Charter was gone. An attendant told
him it had been ordered off the wall twenty
minutes before. Thus ended the story of this wretched fraud. The fake
document which was never signed and
was nothing more than a publicity stunt to conceal the real purposes
of the Atlantic meeting had been slain by
its chief sponsor and, of course, all its highYDsounding professions,
after Teheran, had become as sounding
brass or a tinkling cymbal. 

On January 20, 1945, Roosevelt was sworn in as President of the United
States for a fourth term. Three days
later he left Norfolk on the heavy cruiser Quincy for what was to be
his last act in the hapless drama of peace. 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC 
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 00:14:27 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: FDR4
Message-ID: <009C9C7C.37572C80.9@west.cscwc.pima.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


The Polish question was "settled." The formal proposal to hand over
eastern Poland YD east of the Curzon line YD
was made by Roosevelt himself.102 As to western Poland, Stalin already
had a government there named by him
and composed of Communists representing no one but Stalin himself.

Russia wanted the amount to be 20 billion dollars of which she would
take half. It
was agreed that labor might be taken as a possible source of reparations.
This was just a diplomatic way of
authorizing the seizure of human beings to work as slaves after the
war ended and is the basis of that dreadful
crime perpetrated after hostilities ceased to which the President of
the United States agreed.

As the conference ended, Roosevelt remained an extra day because Stalin
wanted to talk with him. He did so
alone. What he wanted settled was "the political aspects of Russia's
participation" in the Pacific. This he was
able to do very quickly and to his complete satisfaction. In return
for Russian participation in the Pacific,
Roosevelt agreed that the Kuriles Islands would be handed to Russia,
who would also get Sakhalin Island,
internationalization of the Port of Darien, the lease of Port Arthur
as a naval base and joint operation with China
of the Eastern and Southern Manchurian railroads. And Roosevelt promised
to use his influence with Chiang
to force him to agree. This secret agreement, like the one supporting
the use of slave labor, was not made
public and was concealed even from Byrnes who was Roosevelt's adviser
at alta. He did not hear of it until
after Mr. Roosevelt's death. Then he saw a reference to it in a Russian
dispatch. By that time he was Secretary
of State. He asked President Truman to have the White House records
searched for this and any other secret
outstanding I.O.U.'s.105 

He did
suggest that to avoid criticism at home the United States be given
three votes too. And Stalin agreed. When
Byrnes got back to the United States he found a note from Roosevelt
instructing him not to discuss this
agreement even in private. Later Roosevelt decided not to ask for the
three votes for the United States. Byrnes
says he never discovered the reason.106 

On the way home
General Watson, his military secretary, died suddenly of heart disease.
Roosevelt reached Washington the end
of February. On March 1 he appeared before a joint session of Congress.
He told the Congress that "more than
ever before the major allies are closely united," that "the ideal of
lasting peace will become a reality." There was
no hint that the surrender which was now formally announced with respect
to eastern Poland was in fact a
major defeat. The disappearance of the Baltic states and practically
all the Balkans behind Stalin's iron curtain
was not announced in any other terms than as a great forward step in
the liberation of Europe. As for western
Poland, there were heavy overtones of guilt and frustration unintentionally
evident. 

In two months Roosevelt was dead. Truman became President. Shortly
after, in May, the German Army
surrendered. The fighting was in the West was over. 

"Silent, mournful, broken Czechoslovakia recedes into the darkness.
She
has suffered in every respect by her association with the Western democracies."
Chamberlain appeased Hitler
and averted war. Churchill got for England both a war and appeasement.

Stalin had merely to sit tight, to make known
his wishes and Roosevelt laid them in his lap with eager compliance
in the notion that he could thus soften
Stalin. It is all the more incredible when we remember that the things
he was laying in Stalin's lap were the
existence of little nations and the rights of little peoples we had
sworn to defend. And when Truman and
Byrnes went to Potsdam what confronted them was an appalling mess.

Roosevelt not only made agreements secret from the people but secret
from his
closest advisers in the government. He made agreements with Stalin
hostile to the objectives of Churchill and
kept secret from Churchill. He made secret agreements with Chiang KaiYDshek,
secret from both Churchill and
Stalin, and secret agreements in derogation of Chiang KaiYDshek's interests
without his knowledge. And he made
many secret agreements which no one in our State Department knew about
until his death and then learned
about them the hard way, by having them flung in their faces at embarrassing
moments by Molotov. 

At the end of all this, Russia held in her hands a vast belt of land
running from the Baltic sea in the north to the
Black Sea in the south, comprising eleven nations with a population
of 100 million people. These she held, not
as parts of the Soviet Union, but as puppet states, presided over by
Red Quislings of Stalin's own selection
who represented him and not the people they governed, any more than
Quisling represented the people of
Norway. 

The truth is that Roosevelt was a dying man when he was elected, that
many of those around him knew it, that
the most elaborate care was exercised to conceal the fact from the
people and that the misgivings of those who
observed it were justified by events, since he died less than three
months after his fourth inauguration. The
progress of that illness and the means employed to deceive the people
must be examined. 

Rear Admiral Ross T. McIntire, his official physician, felt called
upon to put in a book his formal apologia.

He was a naval officer employed by the people to watch
over the President's health and these statements had the effect of
deceiving the employers of the President and
of the Admiral YD namely the people. 

What disease Roosevelt suffered from at Hyde Park and later, that produced
such grave consequences, we do
not know save upon the statements of Dr. McIntire. Many other doctors
were called in to examine the patient,
but none of these men has ever made any statements. However, while
the illness seemingly began at Hyde Park
after the return from Teheran, there is at least some evidence that
he was far from sound before that time. Three
men have written about the trip to Cairo and Teheran YD Dr. McIntire,
Mike Reilly, chief of the President's Secret
Service guard, and Elliott Roosevelt. The President went to Cairo by
sea. But he wanted to fly from there to
Teheran. Reilly tells us that Admiral McIntire "did not want to submit
some of the members of the party to the
rigors of high altitude flight" but that "the President was not one
of these members."112 And McIntire
volunteers the information that Roosevelt suffered no discomfort on
high altitude flights and had shown no
signs of anoxemia when flying at altitudes of 10,000 to 12,000 feet.113
ou might suppose from this Roosevelt
was quite a flier. et he had never been in a plane since he flew to
Chicago for his first acceptance speech 11
years before until he made the trip to Casablanca YD his only flight
while President before Teheran. However,
Elliott Roosevelt in his book defeats these yarns. He tells how McIntire
was worried about Father's projected
flight. "I'm serious, Elliott," says McIntire. "I think he could fly
only as far as Basra and then go on by train."
Elliott wanted to know what height his father might fly, to which McIntire
replied: "Nothing over 7500 feet YD and
that's tops."114 

Elliott talked to the President's proposed pilot, Major Otis Bryan
who, with Mike Reilly, made an inspection
flight from Teheran to Basra and back and reported that the trip could
be made without going higher than 7000
feet, which, says Elliott, "pleased Father very much."115 Thus McIntire
and Reilly are both caught redYDhanded
misleading their readers. This was before Teheran. 

Elliott talked to the President's proposed pilot, Major Otis Bryan
who, with Mike Reilly, made an inspection
flight from Teheran to Basra and back and reported that the trip could
be made without going higher than 7000
feet, which, says Elliott, "pleased Father very much."115 Thus McIntire
and Reilly are both caught redYDhanded
misleading their readers. This was before Teheran. 

Whatever malady struck Roosevelt down at Hyde Park in December and
kept him pretty much out of circulation
until nearly the middle of May, 1944, we know that McIntire at that
time caused a heart specialist from Boston
to be inducted into the service to remain continuously at Roosevelt's
side and that this heart specialist, Dr.
Howard Bruenn, said a year later at Warm Springs that he "never let
Roosevelt out of his sight," which is a
most unusual performance in the case of a patient whose "stout heart
never failed him," as Dr. McIntire puts it

A great mystery surrounded this illness.

. He was dying slowly at first, rapidly later. And at his side as his
chief adviser was
another dying man YD Harry Hopkins. Hopkins had had a portion of his
stomach removed for ulcers and what
was known as a gastroYDenterotomy performed. After this his liver troubled
him and the gall bladder failed to
supply satisfactorily the essential bile necessary to digestion. 

These two dying men, floating slowly out of life, were deliberately
put into power through a fourthYDterm election by a carefully arranged
deception practiced upon the American
people and upon some, at least, of the party leaders. Here was a crime
committed against a great nation which
had made tremendous sacrifices and against the peace and security of
the world in a moment of the gravest
danger. History will pronounce its verdict upon all who were guilty.

Dr. McIntire was immediately notified of the stroke in
Washington and he, Mrs. Roosevelt and Steve Early left at once by plane
for Warm Springs, arriving there at
11 P.M. They immediately decided to have no autopsy. The body was consigned
to its coffin and orders issued
not to open it. It was taken from Warm Springs next morning at 9 o'clock.
It reached Washington next day YD the
14th YD and after lying for a few hours without ever being opened was
taken that night to Hyde Park for
interment next day. It has been the custom in the past for the remains
of deceased Presidents to lie in state in
the Capitol. This was not done.

Present in the cottage when the President was stricken were the artist,
Mrs.
Schoumantoff, who was painting his portrait, his two cousins, his valet
and several others. The artist, a
Russian, was ordered to leave at once. She took a train without delay
and was not located until two days later
at Locust Valley, L.I.

At St. Helena the British government provided its illustrious
prisoner, Napoleon I, with a physician. He was Dr. Francesco Antomarchi,
a Corsican, who however, did not
seem particularly fond of his fallen countryman and who failed signally
to win Napoleon's confidence. Dr.
Antomarchi persisted to the end in the belief that his royal patient
was not seriously ill. Napoleon convinced
himself that his physician did not know what he was doing and that
the medicines he was prescribing were
actually injuring him. Napoleon watched his chance and when the doctor's
back was turned, handed the mixture
just prepared for him to an aide who swallowed it and was immediately
taken with a violent internal disturbance.
The Emperor denounced Antomarchi as an assassin. Dr. MacLaurin,126
who has written interestingly of this
case, observes that from the symptoms now known to be present and even
in the then state of medical
knowledge at that period, the veriest blockhead would have known that
the Emperor was seriously ill.
Napoleon died shortly after the incident described above of cancer
of the stomach. In this case, instead of
passing up the autopsy, Antomarchi performed one himself in order to
prove that there were no symptoms
present to inform him of the presence of cancer and he wrote a book
upon the subject. 

He did not restore our economic system to vitality. He
changed it. The system he blundered us into is more like the managed
and bureaucratized, stateYDsupported
system of Germany before World War I than our own traditional order.
Before his regime we lived in a system
which depended for its expansion upon private investment in private
enterprise. Today we live in a system
which depends for its expansion and vitality upon the government. This
is a preYDwar European importation YD
imported at the moment when it had fallen into complete disintegration
in Europe. In America today every
fourth person depends for his livelihood upon employment either directly
by the government or indirectly in
some industry supported by government funds. In this substituted system
the government confiscates by
taxes or borrowings the savings of all the citizens and invests them
in nonYDwealthYDproducing enterprises in
order to create work. Behold the picture of American economy today:
taxes which confiscate the savings of
every citizen, a public debt of 250 billion dollars as against a preYDRoosevelt
debt of 19 billions, a government
budget of 40 billions instead of four before Roosevelt, inflation doubling
the prices and reducing the
lowerYDbracket employed workers to a state of pauperism as bad as that
of the unemployed in the depression,
more people on various kinds of government relief than when we had
11 million unemployed, Americans
trapped in the economic disasters and the political quarrels of every
nation on earth and a system of permanent
militarism closely resembling that we beheld with horror in Europe
for decades, bureaucrats swarming over
every field of life and the President calling for more power, more
priceYDfixing, more regulations and more billions.
Does this look like the traditional American scene? Or does it not
look rather like the system built by Bismarck
in Germany in the last century and imitated by all the lesser Bismarcks
in Europe? 

He changed our political system with two weapons YD blankYDcheck congressional
appropriations and blankYDcheck congressional legislation. In 1933,
Congress abdicated much of its power when
it put billions into his hands by a blanket appropriation to be spent
at his sweet will and when it passed general
laws, leaving it to him, through great government bureaus of his appointment,
to fill in the details of legislation

He used it to break down the power of
Congress and concentrate it in the hands of the executive. The end
of these two betrayals YD the smashing of
our economic system and the twisting of our political system YD can
only be the Planned Economic State, which,
either in the form of Communism or Fascism, dominates the entire continent
of Europe today. The capitalist
system cannot live under these conditions. The capitalist system cannot
survive a Planned Economy. Such an
economy can be managed only by a dictatorial government capable of
enforcing the directives it issues. The
only result of our present system YD unless we reverse the drift YD must
be the gradual extension of the fascist
sector and the gradual disappearance of the system of free enterprise
under a free representative government. 

how has it advanced the cause of democracy? We liberated Europe
from Hitler and turned it over to the mercies of a far more terrible
tyrant and actually tried to sell him to the
people as a savior of civilization. Behold Europe! Does one refer to
the wreckage there as liberation and
salvation? Is anyone so naive as to suppose that democracy and free
capitalism have been restored in Europe?
Fascism has departed from Germany, but a hybrid system of socialism
and capitalism in chains has come to
England, which is called social democracy but is on its way to Fascism
with all the controls without which such
a system cannot exist. And in America the price of the war is that
fatal deformity of our own economic and
political system which Roosevelt effected under the impact of the war
necessities. 

The war rescued him and he seized upon it like a drowning man. By leading
his country into the fringes of the war at first and then deep into
its center all over the world he was able to do
the only things that could save him YD spend incomprehensible billions,
whip up spending in the hot flames of
war hysteria, put every man and his wife and grandparents into the
war mills, while under the pressure of
patriotic inhibitions, he could silence criticism and work up the illusion
of the war leader. 

Look up the promises he made, not to our own people, but to the Chinese,
to Poland, to
Czechoslovakia, to the Baltic peoples in Lithuania and Latvia and Estonia,
to the Jews out of one side of his
mouth and to the Arabs out of the other side. He broke every promise.

The figure of Roosevelt exhibited before the eyes of our people is
a fiction. There was no such being as that
noble, selfless, hardYDheaded, wise and farseeing combination of philosopher,
philanthropist and warrior which
has been fabricated out of pure propaganda and which a small collection
of dangerous cliques in this country
are using to advance their own evil ends. 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

In June the longYDawaited invasion of the continent was launched. With
this we will not concern ourselves. The
other subject that occupied Roosevelt's mind was his plan to have himself
renominated for a fourth time. 

The President had lost his head, at least a little. Congress was slipping
away from him. A growing section of his
party, particularly in the Senate, was moving out of that collection
of incongruous elements called the Third
New Deal. It was crawling with Reds and their gullible allies who got
themselves into key positions in all the
bureaus and were talking with great assurance about what they were
going to do with America and the world.
The Communists had all become antiYDfascists and everybody who was against
the Communists was, therefore,
a fascist. A group of organizations financed by undisclosed benefactors
was riding roughshod through the
country smearing everybody who questioned the grandiose plans of the
Great Leader for remaking America
and the world. Nobody was getting a hotter dose of this smearing than
the American Congress. The radio and
the frightened press and magazines kept up a barrage against the members
of the President's own party in both
houses. 

It was a Democratic bill and the blast that exploded in his face brought
him up with a jerk. In the upper house, Senator Barkley, Democratic
leader, Roosevelt's own representative
there, rose to upbraid him. He said the message was "a calculated and
deliberate assault upon the legislative
integrity of every member of Congress." He cried: "I do not propose
to take it lying down," as Democratic and
Republican senators united in a roar of applause. He ended his philippic
with an announcement that made
headlines in every paper in the country. He declared that after seven
years of carrying the New Deal banner for
the President, he now resigned his post as Democratic majority leader
and he called on every member of the
Congress to preserve its selfYDrespect and override the veto. The Senate
overrode it 72 to 14 and the House 299
to 95. It brought Roosevelt tumbling off his high horse. He sent Steve
Early running to Barkley's home that
very night to beg him not to quit. Barkley yielded. 

McIntire was a naval doctor in 1932 and was recommended to
Roosevelt as White House physician by Admiral Grayson. McIntire was
an eye, ear and nose specialist. He got
along famously with Roosevelt, was elevated by him to the grade of
admiral and made head of the Naval
Hospital Service. 

Thus once again the problem of disease entangled itself in the making
of history. 

It had happened after the First World War when the President was stricken
by a brain
hemorrhage that paralyzed his body and impaired his mind and, worse
than this, disturbed his normal mental
balance. What might have been the course of history had Woodrow Wilson's
mental and physical powers
survived must be a matter of speculation. 

We have seen how the Communist party had successfully penetrated the
unions organized by the Congress of
Industrial Organizations YD the CIO YD and how John L. Lewis and David
Dubinsky had got out of it for this
reason, leaving Sidney Hillman in complete control. We have also seen
how the war brought Hillman to the top
in White House circles when he and William Knudsen became the directors
of the economic war effort.
Knudsen departed in good time, but Hillman remained close to the White
House. 

. By 1943, Earl Browder, Communist
leader, had about completed the discovery that there was no hope for
a proletarian revolution in America. The
party got nowhere preaching Communism. The people just wouldn't listen.
But it learned that it could getyYYY   

  
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pqrstuvwxyz{}yYYY~Y~
very
far by using a different technique. After all, Communist revolutionaries
know that before they can introduce
Communism they must destroy the political and economic system of the
country in which they conspire. 

t fascism YD the Planned Capitalist Economy
YD is merely a decadent phase of capitalism. For this reason the Communist
party had been promoting with great
success RedYDfront organizations and inducing the most important people,
like Mrs. Roosevelt, Henry Wallace
and scores of prominent leaders in education and public life, to work
with them. 

As 1944 opened, Browder decided to liquidate the Communist party. It
would go out of politics. It would
become a mere educational association. This was done, and Browder and
Sidney Hillman teamed up to capture
the American Labor Party. This had been formed originally in New ork
City to provide a political vehicle for
Fiorello LaGuardia in his local politics. It had all sorts of people
in it. There were a lot of Reds, a lot of socialists
and a lot of parlor and campus pinks of all sorts, plus a lot of social
reformers and welfare reformers. It had
corralled a lot of votes YD enough to swing an election in New ork
State YD by giving or withholding its vote
from the Democrats. It supported Lehman in 1940 and elected him on
the Democratic ticket. It refused to
endorse the Democratic candidate, Bennett, for governor in 1942 and
the Democratic vote, without it, was
insufficient and thus Dewey became governor. Now Browder and Hillman
joined forces and decided to take
over the American Labor Party. They met resistance from the mixed collection
of pinks who had control, but in
a bitter battle Browder and Hillman took it over. Actually Browder
dominated this team because it was
Communist votes that did the trick. 

In addition to this, Hillman had organized in 1943 a new political
labor group called the CIO Political Action
Committee. The CIO had violated the law by supporting candidates in
various primary elections and to get
around this Hillman formed this Political Action Committee and pressure
was put on members of CIO unions to
compel them to join. This organization was now being used as a club
in the Democratic party to bludgeon
Democratic congressmen and officials generally to play ball with Hillman,
Wallace and their crowd, while
Hillman and Browder did business as a team in New ork State in the
newly reYDformed Communist American
Labor Party. 

The Democratic party could win if it could carry the Southern states
and in addition New ork, Massachusetts,
Illinois, Michigan and New Jersey. These states could be carried with
the support of Sidney Hillman's Political
Action Committee and Browder's American Labor Party, but not without
them and Roosevelt was the only
possible candidate who could get this support. The Democrats had to
nominate Roosevelt or lose the election.
There were some Democrats who thought it was better to lose the election,
but not enough of them.
Accordingly when the convention assembled in Chicago on July 19, Sidney
Hillman was there, not as a
delegate YD he was not even a member of the party YD but to see that
the subservient Democrats behaved to his
satisfaction and to the satisfaction of his friend and partner, Browder.
To this pass had Roosevelt's personal
political ambitions brought the Democratic party of Jefferson, Cleveland
and Wilson. Hillman had a
headquarters there. He wasn't worried about Roosevelt's nomination.
That was settled. He wasn't worried about
the platform. That was written to his satisfaction before the convention
assembled by Sam Rosenman. He had
one more demand. He wanted Henry Wallace nominated again for Vice President.

Harry Hopkins and Henry Wallace and, of course, Sidney Hillman
knew. They knew that Roosevelt was doomed and that if they could name
Henry Wallace Vice President this
time, the government would be in their hands. 

But Chicago had a visitor about whom nothing was known until later.
On the evening of July 14, Roosevelt left
Washington with great secrecy on a special train. It reached Chicago
on Saturday the 15th. That same day,
Robert E. Hannegan, Democratic national chairman, got to Chicago. Reporters
awaited him at the station. But
he slipped out through a rear door of his train and into Mayor Kelly's
policeYDescorted automobile and vanished.
Reporters frantically hunted him all over town. He remained out of
sight until the next day. But in the meantime
he had made a visit to Roosevelt's train, secretly parked on a remote
railroad siding. There poor Wallace's
goose was cooked. Hannegan, too, got a letter. It said the President
would be happy to have either Harry
Truman or William Douglas as his running mate. And as Hannegan was
leaving the train, Roosevelt warned
him "to clear everything with Sidney." The Presidential approval of
Truman was no good until Sidney O.K.'d it

Truman was nominated with 1100 votes to only 66 for
Wallace. But not until Sidney Hillman had approved the change. 

His first speech was not made until September 24 to a dinner given
by the International Teamsters'
Union dominated by Daniel Tobin YD an AFL union. Its purpose was to
put some emphasis on the support of the
AFL in view of the bitter feeling among AFL leaders because of the
dominant role Sidney Hillman's CIO was
playing in Roosevelt's councils and particularly in its favored position
before Roosevelt's Labor Board
~~~~~~~~~
Secret Service Page-

The first occurred on February 1, 1933, in Miami, Florida Giuseppe
Zangara fired five
shots a President-elect Franklin D. Roosevelt, who was making an impromptu
speech while sitting
in an open car that had stopped momentarily. Although none of the shots
hit President Roosevelt,
Zangara mortally wounded Anton Cermak, the Mayor of Chicago, and hit
four other people,
including a Secret Service agent.

On February 15, 1933, Zangara attended
a speech given by Roosevelt at Bayfront Park in Miami, Florida.
When Roosevelt had finished his talk and was preparing to leave,
Zangara pulled out a pistol and opened fire. A bystander
deflected the assassin's aim by pushing his arm into the air.
Zangara wounded five people who had been near the
president-elect, two of them seriously. Most critically injured was
Chicago Mayor Anton Cermak, who was struck by the bullet in
the chest which then lodged in his spine. 

Zangara was immediately charged with four counts of attempted
murder. He was not charged initially with the wounding of
Cermak, as authorities waited to see if the mayor's wounds
would prove fatal. The State charged Zangara for attempting to
murder Franklin Roosevelt, Russell Caldwell, Margaret Kruise,
and William Sinnott. Zangara was found guilty on each count and
sentenced to four consecutive twenty year terms. 

On March 6, Mayor Cermak died from complications stemming
from the shooting. The same day Zangara was indicted by a
grand jury and charged with first degree murder in the death of
Cermak. His trial began on March 9 and ended on March 11
with a guilty verdict and a death sentence. The prisoner was
transported to the Florida State Prison at Raiford, where he was
executed on March 20, 1933. 

The parade car moved slowly down the street as President-elect Roosevelt
and Mayor Cermak
smiled and waved. The car stopped and President-elect Roosevelt gave
a speech while sitting on
the back of the car. A man named Guiseppe Zangara pushed through the
crowd. He fired five
shots at the President-elect. The bullets hit four people and Mayor
Cermak. The mayor fell out of
the car and called out "The President, get him away!" But Roosevelt
ordered his car to stop and
that Mayor Cermak be put in with him. President-elect Roosevelt held
Mayor Cermak all the way
to the hospital.

Mayor Anton J. Cermak died three weeks later, on March 8, 1933. His
body was taken back to
Chicago and buried in the Bohemian National Cemetery.

Guiseppe Zangara was executed in the electric chair on March 21, 1933.
That was only 13 days
after Mayor Cermak died.

It was not always thus. Consider the case of Guiseppe Zangara, who
was executed in 1933 for the
attempted assassination of President-elect Franklin D. Roosevelt in
which Chicago Mayor Anton
J. Cermak was fatally shot. Zangara pleaded guilty in state court on
March 10, was sentenced to
death, and was executed on March 20 -- an interval of 10 days! Kenneth
J. Davis, FDR: The
New ork ears 1928-1933 (Random House, 1985) at 427-435.

After Roosevelt had delivered a
speech in Florida on February 14, 1938, Guiseppe Zangara, an unemployed
bricklayer, fired six
sbots from a handgun at Roosevelt from twelve yards away. The president
elect, who was sitting
in an open car, was uninjured but five other people were shot, including
Chicago mayor Anton
Cernak, who was killed. Zangara, who had a pathological hatred for
rich and powerful figures,
was found guilty of murder and electrocuted.February 15, 1933, Guiseppe
Zangara rose early in Miami, Florida to assassinate Franklin
Delano Roosevelt, president-elect. In the past weeks, FDR's popularity
had increased. That
warm, reassuring voice, that ready grin and tilted cigarette holder,
had reached out to touch
millions of folks all over America. Zangara did not share these emotions.
Pushing his way through
the crowd, Zangara shouted out "There are too many people starving
to death!" He fired shot after
shot at FDR, but a woman's quick move knocked the gun upward. The bullets
hit several
bystanders and mortally wounded Mayor Cermak of Miami. 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC 
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 00:14:49 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: FDR5
Message-ID: <009C9C7C.4404B7E0.11@west.cscwc.pima.edu>
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On March 21, 1933, Zangara marched into the execution chamber shouting
against the
"capitalists" and expressing disappointment that no news camera-men
were permitted to witness
his execution. "Goodbye, adios to the world," were his last words.

3 
FDR's Looking Forward published

FDR is shot at in assassination attempt in Miami, Florida, by Guiseppe
Zangara, 15
February

Giuseppe Zangara was sentenced to serve 80 years for shooting at President
elect Franklin
Roosevelt in 1933. Though Roosevelt was missed, five bystanders, including
Chicago Mayor
Anton Cermak, were struck. Three weeks after the attack, Cermak died
of complications.
Zangara's sentence was then changed to death sentence. Thirty-three
days after the attack,
Zangara was strapped into the electric chair at Florida's Raiford Prison.
He glared at his
executioners and declared, "Goodbye, adios to all the world." His unclaimed
body was buried
in an unmarked prison grave.

In 1989, as part of an effort by court officials to recover missing
court files of
historical significance, he filed an FOIA request with the U.S. Secret
Service
seeking to get back court files concerning assassin Giuseppe Zangara.

Zangara, a 32-year-old bricklayer, fired four shots at President-elect
Franklin
Roosevelt's motorcade in 1933 in Miami. Chicago Mayor Anton Cermak
was
killed and four people were wounded. Roosevelt escaped unharmed. Zangara
was found guilty of murder and was executed about a month later.

Winslow said a Miami court order showed that a Secret Service agent
had
checked out Zangara's death warrant and some other court documents
in 1954
but never had returned them. Unfortunately, he said, the FOIA request
failed to
turn up the missing documents.

GIUSEPPE
ZANGARA
pleaded guilty and
was executed
March 20, 1933 for
the March 7, 1933
death of Chicago
Mayor Anton
Cermak, who was
fatally wounded in
an attempt on the
life of
President-elect
Franklin D.
Roosevelt in
Miami on Feb. 15,
1933. 

LE MONDE DIPLOMATIQUE - May 1998
by DOMINIQUE VIDAL

National and/or social liberation movements worldwide are equally affected.
The
ideology and power bloc which used to be their mainstay, whether they
liked it or
not, has disappeared. The various movements and causes have dropped
out of the
international spotlight and are no longer up for grabs in the East
West confrontation.
In fact, amid general indifference, they have largely forfeited their
means of action and
political leverage. 

With its main enemy out of the way, along with the economic, ideological
and military
threat it represented, the West, led by the United States, has now
become the master
of the world. A damaging result of this new world order has been the
beginning of the
process of globalisation. It is no paradox to say it probably began
on 9 November
1989 with the fall of the Berlin Wall, or in August 1991 when Mikhail
Gorbachev
rallied to the American crusade in the Gulf, or indeed on 8 December
1991, the date
of the dissolution of the Soviet Union

For decades, every socialist project was contrasted with its only existing
embodiment: so-called "real" socialism. And, among revolutionary forces
themselves,
the process of devising a plausible radical alternative was tragically
limited by the
Soviet horizon. 

So, despite the consequences described at the beginning, the fall of
communism
removes a severe handicap. Far from presaging the end of history and
the irrelevance
of radical thought, it actually gives a whole new lease of life to
ideas of utopia. Future
generations will have the freedom to conceive a different kind of society
without
having to define themselves in terms of a communist model. Of course,
there is no
going back to a clean slate. However, with the passing of time, it
should be possible
to learn lessons from the failure of communism and - in other forms
and for other
reasons - social-democratic reformism. The human imagination must find
a new way
of thinking based on what men and women need, rather than theoretical
or dogmatic
concepts to be "implemented". 

The questions we must ask ourselves may have a familiar ring. How are
democracy,
pluralism, rights and freedoms to be revitalised, but sheltered from
totalitarian intent?
How is equality of opportunity and social justice to be guaranteed
and the security to
which people are entitled assured, without a general "dumbing down"
and stifling of
initiative? How can the fulfilment of basic social needs be made into
a priority for the
economy without affecting its development? How can the necessary resources
be
found for a new balance between work, training, family and community
life, and
leisure activities when people's time is at last freed up? How can
the ground be laid
for a distribution of wealth which, worldwide, respects the right of
all peoples to
development? How can the role of the state be made to serve all these
objectives
while at the same time the independence of each citizen and each local
community is
assured? In short, how is the relationship between individuals and
society to be
reinvented? To these and many other questions, there are no longer
any ready-made
answers. 

However, the way is now open and the ground ready to be cleared. At
last. 

Translated by Sally Blaxland

IGNACIO RAMONET

Last January, the corridors of a number of European airports were adorned
with a
poster in the style of the Chinese cultural revolution. It showed a
row of
demonstrators at the head of a march, their faces shining, their colourful
banners
blowing in the wind. The slogan they were chanting was "Capitalists
of the world,
unite!" For Forbes, America's magazine for millionaires, this was more
than a jibe at
the 150th anniversary of the publication of Marx and Engels' Communist
Manifesto. 

It was a way of making two things clear. Apparently without fear of
contradiction, as
the posters were not torn down or defaced. The first is that nobody
is afraid of
communism any longer. The second is that capitalism has gone over to
the attack. 

capitalism's new-found arrogance. 

The triumphal tone became apparent after the fall of the Berlin Wall,
when the Soviet
Union collapsed in a welter of political obtuseness reflecting the
emptiness of
shattered illusions. The sudden revelation of the full consequences
of decades of state
control in the countries of the former Eastern bloc produced a sort
of mental
upheaval. The tragic absurdity of a system lacking basic freedoms and
a market
economy was starkly exposed, as were all the injustices that had followed
in its
wake. Socialist thinking seemed to subside, along with the belief in
progress and a
future subject to rational planning. 

The sole ideological basis of the traditional right had been its anti
communism. The
collapse of the Soviet system and the implosion of socialism cut the
ground from
under its feet. Neoliberalism, which had been flagging since the beginning
of the
century, was left alone in the field, the sole victor of the East-West
confrontation.
With its main rivals removed, it has re-emerged on all sides, stronger
than ever. Its
supporters dream of imposing their vision - a neoliberal utopia admitting
of no
alternative - on the whole world. 

This campaign of conquest goes by the name of globalisation. It is
the outcome of the
increasing interdependence of all countries, brought about by the lifting
of all controls
on the movement of capital, the removal of customs barriers and administrative
restrictions, and the intensification of international commerce and
free trade; all this
under the auspices of the World Bank, the International Monetary Fund,
the
Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development, and the World
Trade
Organisation. 

The financial economy has become entirely divorced from the real economy.
The sum
total of daily financial transactions throughout the world is about
$1,500 billion, but a
mere 1 % involves the creation of new wealth. 

Even in the most developed countries, the dramatic advance of neoliberalism
has
significantly reduced the role of parliaments and other public players.

At the same time, the growth of new information technologies is proceeding
without
any reference to the idea of social progress. The enormous strides
in molecular
biology since the early 1960s, coupled with the immense calculating
power provided
by computer science, have shattered the stability of the technological
matrix which
public authorities are finding it harder and harder to control. Politicians
can no longer
assess the risks involved in the acceleration of science and technology
(1). Here too,
they are increasingly dependent on unelected experts, who direct the
government
decision-making process behind the scenes. 

The information revolution has torn our society apart. It has overturned
the
established pattern of trade, opening the way for the expansion of
the global and
information economy. Not all the countries of the world have yet been
forced into
one unit. But the global economy is imposing a single economic model
by networking
the entire planet. In this new system of liberal social relations,
humankind has been
reduced to a collection of isolated individuals stranded in a universe
of
hypertechnology. 

These brutal changes are causing us to lose our bearings; there is
ever-growing
uncertainty, the world appears unintelligible and history seems to
defy rational
interpretation. The crisis we are experiencing is what Gramsci had
in mind when he
spoke of the old order dying while the new hesitates to be born. We
are reminded of
Tocqueville's phrase: "When the past no longer illuminates the future,
the spirit walks
in darkness." 

And yet, many people are trying to inject some measure of humanity
into the
relentless machinery of neoliberalism. They feel the need for responsible
involvement
and collective action. In an age when power has become abstract, invisible,
distant
and impersonal, they want to confront those responsible face to face,
to direct their
anger, fears and frustration at clearly identified adversaries of flesh
and blood. They
would still be prepared to believe that politics has an answer to everything,
even
though politicians find it increasingly difficult to propose straightforward
solutions to
the complex problems of society. And they all feel the need to erect
a barrier against
the tidal wave of neoliberalism in the form of a coherent ideology
that can be
opposed to the currently dominant model. 

To formulate that ideology is no easy matter. There is practically
nothing left to build
on. Previous utopias based on the idea of progress have all too often
sunk into
authoritarian rule and oppression. 

Once again, there is a need for dreamers who can think and thinkers
who can dream.
The answer will not be a neatly packaged, custom-built project. It
will be a way of
looking at things, of analysing society, leading gradually to the development
of a new
ideology that will break the stranglehold of anarcho-liberalism. 

*** sog ***
Neoliberal ideology is busily building a society of selfishness based
on fragmentation.
To preserve the future, we have to strengthen the collective dimension
(3). And
collective action is now as much a matter of single-issue campaigns
as of parties and
unions.
*** AoD ***

France has seen a proliferation of campaigning groups in recent years.
The
issues range from food for the homeless (les Restos du Coeur) and the
fight against
AIDS (Act Up), to unemployment (Action contre le ChYmage - AC!) and
housing
rights (Droit au Logement - DAL). There has also been considerable
growth in local
branches of large NGOs like Greenpeace, Amnesty International, MYdecins
du
Monde and Transparency. 

Political parties have two particular attributes which detract from
their credibility.
First, they are all-embracing, claiming to be able to solve all society's
problems.
Second, they are geographically restricted, i.e. they can act only
within the frontiers
of a single country. Campaigning groups have exactly the opposite properties.
On the
one hand they are thematic, i.e. concerned with single issues such
as unemployment,
housing and the environment. On the other, they are international,
i.e. their field of
action is the whole planet (4). 

For many years the supporters of these two different approaches have
been at odds
with each other, but recently there have been signs of convergence.
It is vital that they
join forces. This is one of the key problems of political renewal.
Campaigning groups
are grass-roots organisations, testifying to the richness of social
initiative. 
{John Doe Society - sog}

It is
therefore essential to build strong links between campaigning organisations
and
political parties. 

Campaigning organisations have preserved the belief in the possibility
of changing the
world, a belief based on a radical conception of democracy. They are
the probable
source of a renewal of political activity in Europe. 

. "Today's utopia is tomorrow's
reality", as Victor Hugo said. Lamartine agreed that utopias are simply
"realities
whose time is not yet ripe." It is the committed activists of campaigning
organisations
who are likely to prove them right. They will resurface tomorrow under
other
banners. 

They will be involved in struggles to restore the United Nations' role
as the central
instrument of international law, to turn it into an organisation that
can take real
decisions, act decisively and impose lasting peace; to establish international
tribunals
that can judge crimes against humanity, democracy and the common good;
to prevent
manipulation of the masses and to end discrimination against women.
They will be
present in campaigns to secure new legislation on protection of the
environment and
to establish the principle of sustainable development. In the fight
to ban tax havens
and promote an economic system based on solidarity. And in many others.

Translated by Barry Smerin

Return of the Rebels
The working classes have not given up the fight despite both overt
and covert repression, a
weakened and divided trade union movement and media indifference or
outright hostility.

by CHRISTIAN DE BRIE

Alongside the trade union movement, an astonishing wealth and diversity
of
associations is springing up to challenge the new world order. From
local community
groups to international non-governmental organisations - there are
several hundred
thousand of them in all - mobilising hundreds of millions of activists.
As the Peoples'
Global Action against "Free" Trade and the World Trade Organisation,
which met in
Geneva in February 1998, stated in their manifesto, direct action against
globalisation
is the most important thing. "Only a global alliance of peoples' movements,
respecting
autonomy and facilitating action-oriented resistance, can defeat this
... monster. ...
We assert our will to struggle ... against all forms of oppression"
(3).

Translated by Sally Blaxland

THERE IS ANOTHER, BETTER WORLD

The hazards of internationalism

Billions of men and women, rendered powerless by the
fragmentation of the social struggle, are pinning their hopes on a
new universalism that does not leave the delicate fabric of the
world entirely in the hands of the money men.

by ALAIN GRESH
We live in extraordinary times. Globalisation is carrying all before
it, our means of
communication allow us contact in real time with any place you care
to name, more
people than ever before are travelling the world, yet paradoxically
the media space
devoted to "foreign affairs" is shrinking to vanishing point. All the
research bears this
out. Be it in Paris, Washington (1), London or Madrid, television and
press coverage
of international problems has been substantially reduced. However,
there is an
exception to every rule and we are informed instantly of any drop in
the Nikkei index
in Tokyo, invited to rejoice at the new heights reached by the Dow
Jones on Wall
Street or worry about exchange rate fluctuations in Seoul. Stock exchange
news has
become the only social glue binding the global village together. 

Alain Badiou observes in a stimulating reflection on universalism (3),
this "process of
fragmentation into separate and isolated identities" is only another
aspect of a "world
that has finally been given a configuration, as a market, a world market.
Nothing", he
continues, "lends itself more to the invention of new patterns for
a uniform monetary
system than a community and its territory or territories. What endless
opportunities
for trade and investment" these innumerable new communities offer as
they arise. The
many separate states that have replaced ugoslavia or the Soviet Union
offered no
resistance to the juggernaut of the free market economy. 

As Alain Badiou observes, "at a time of general movement and the dream
of instant
cultural exchange, more and more laws and regulations are being introduced
everywhere to curtail people's freedom of movement ... Free movement
for things
that can be counted, by all means, especially for capital, the very
essence of such
things. But free movement for things that cannot be counted, for the
infinite value
represented by an individual human life, never! As regards the real
life of people and
what happens to them", there is - and we must never forget it - "a
detestable
complicity between the globalised logic of capital and the French mania
to preserve
their identity". 

the nation-state - a recent and transitory historical
phenomenon (7) - is clearly not the symbolic ideal construct some sentimental
elements of the left like to imagine. It has been a key factor in colonial
wars,
opposition to the labour movement, enforcing moral order, discrimination
against
women, the marginalisation of minorities, and so on and so on. And
the current drift
into authoritarian attitudes vis-Y-vis "dangerous elements" and immigrants
is
unacceptable, even in the name of a self-styled "republican order".

How are we to find new forms of rebellion, of dissidence, to meet the
new global
challenges?
With
modern means of communication, especially the Internet, it is easy
to establish
worldwide networks, mobilise, act. 

But to act locally and on a world scale, to "think global", it is necessary
to rediscover
universalism, a universalism that is not confined to the values of
Western White men,
who fall into a trance at the sight of a young girl in a veil and whose
real aim in life, to
quote Alain Badiou, is "the uniform imposition of what they imagine
to be modern".

Humanitarian action or laissez-faire?

The stagnation of the Soviet system and the collapse of the communist
utopia brought
discredit on a certain version of internationalism. Even the humanitarianism,
which
rallied millions of men and women to the cause of emergency aid in
time of war and
natural disaster, rapidly ran out of steam. No-one was quicker than
the organisers of
M_dicins sans fronti_res, the organisation that exemplifies that approach,
to condemn
the political authorities' use of "humanitarian" aid to justify a laissez
faire attitude
towards the crimes in Bosnia or the genocide in Rwanda. 

And yet, in the face of fundamentalism, hardening attitudes on identity,
or
confrontations between increasingly insulated ethnic groups (which
do not prevent
their foot-soldiers from drinking Coca Cola, their intellectuals from
using Microsoft
software, and their leaders from calling on the resources of international
capital), the
peoples of the world have got to find new ways of "living together"
and "fighting
together". They have nothing to lose from embracing this ideal and,
to quote Marx
and Engels, "they have a world to win".

Translated by Barbara Wilson

The US is, in fact, operated as a fascist state by bureaucrats.
~ Bill Payne

~ John Hancock
Security to
the persons and properties of the governed is so obviously the design
and
end of civil government, that to attempt a logical proof of it would
be like
burning tapers at noonday, to assist the sun in enlightening the world;
and it
cannot be either virtuous or honorable to attempt to support a government
of which this is not the great and principal basis; and it is to the
last degree
vicious and infamous to attempt to support a government which manifestly
tends to render the persons and properties of the governed insecure.

Some boast of being friends to government; I am a friend to righteous
government, to a government founded upon the principles of reason and
justice; but I glory in publicly avowing my eternal enmity to tyranny.

They have declared that they have
ever had, and of right ought ever to have, full power to make laws
of
sufficient validity to bind the Colonies in all cases whatever. They
have
exercised this pretended right by imposing a tax upon us without our
consent; and lest we should show some reluctance at parting with our
property, her fleets and armies are sent to enforce their mad pretensions.

it was easy to foresee
the consequences which so naturally followed upon sending troops into
America to enforce obedience to acts of the British Parliament, which
neither God nor man ever empowered them to make. It was reasonable
to
expect that troops, who knew the errand they were sent upon, would
treat
the people whom they were to subjugate, with a cruelty and haughtiness
which too often buries the honorable character of a soldier in the
disgraceful name of an unfeeling ruffian. 

they thought it not enough to violate our civil
rights, they endeavored to deprive us of the enjoyment of our religious
privileges, to vitiate our morals, and thereby render us deserving
of
destruction.

But what, my
countrymen, withheld the ready arm of vengeance from executing instant
justice on the vile assassins? Perhaps you feared promiscuous carnage
might ensue, and that the innocent might share the fate of those who
had
performed the infernal deed. But were not all guilty? Were you not
too
tender of the lives of those who came to fix a yoke on your necks?




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC 
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 00:15:12 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: FDR6
Message-ID: <009C9C7C.5221FFE0.13@west.cscwc.pima.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


And though the
murderers may escape the just resentment of an enraged people; though
drowsy justice, intoxicated by the poisonous draught prepared for her
cup, still nods upon her rotten seat, yet be assured such complicated
crimes will meet their due reward.

Standing armies are sometimes (I would by no
means say generally, much less universally) composed of persons who
have rendered themselves unfit to live in civil society; who have no
other
motives of conduct than those which a desire of the present gratification
of
their passions suggests; who have no property in any country; men who
have given up their own liberties, and envy those who enjoy liberty;
who
are equally indifferent to the glory of a George or a Louis; who, for
the
addition of one penny a day to their wages, would desert from the
Christian cross and fight under the crescent of the Turkish Sultan.
From
such men as these, what has not a State to fear? With such as these,
usurping Caesar passed the Rubicon; with such as these, he humbled
mighty Rome, and forced the mistress of the world to own a master in
a
traitor. These are the men whom sceptred robbers now employ to frustrate
the designs of God, and render vain the bounties which his gracious
hand
pours indiscriminately upon his creatures. By these the miserable slaves
in
Turkey, Persia, and many other extensive countries, are rendered truly
wretched, though their air is salubrious, and their soil luxuriously
fertile. By
these, France and Spain, though blessed by nature with all that administers
to the convenience of life, have been reduced to that contemptible
state in
which they now appear
But since standing armies are so hurtful to a State, perhaps my
countrymen may demand some substitute, some other means of rendering
us secure against the incursions of a foreign enemy. But can you be
one
moment at a loss? Will not a well-disciplined militia afford you ample
security against foreign foes? We want not courage; it is discipline
alone in
which we are exceeded by the most formidable troops that ever trod
the
earth. 
A well-disciplined militia is a safe, an
honorable guard to a community like this, whose inhabitants are by
nature
brave, and are laudably tenacious of that freedom in which they were
born.
>From a well-regulated militia we have nothing to fear; their interest
is the
same with that of the State. When a country is invaded, the militia
are
ready to appear in its defense; they march into the field with that
fortitude
which a consciousness of the justice of their cause inspires; they
do not
jeopard their lives for a master who considers them only as the instruments
of his ambition, and whom they regard only as the daily dispenser of
the
scanty pittance of bread and water. No; they fight for their houses,
their
lands, for their wives, their children; for all who claim the tenderest
names,
and are held dearest in their hearts; they fight pro aris et focis,
for their
liberty, and for themselves, and for their God. 

I cannot here forbear noticing the
signal manner in which the designs of those who wish not well to us
have
been discovered. The dark deeds of a treacherous cabal have been
brought to public view. ou now know the serpents who, whilst cherished
in your bosoms, were darting the envenomed stings into the vitals of
the
constitution. But the representatives of the people have fixed a mark
on
these ungrateful monsters,

Surely you never will tamely suffer this country to be a den of thieves.

Break in sunder, with noble disdain, the bonds with which the
Philistines have bound you. Suffer not yourselves to be betrayed, by
the
soft arts of luxury and effeminacy, into the pit digged for your destruction.
Despise the glare of wealth. That people who pay greater respect to
a
wealthy villain than to an honest, upright man in poverty, almost deserve
to
be enslaved; they plainly show that wealth, however it may be acquired,
is,
in their esteem, to be preferred to virtue. 

The virtuous asserter of the rights of
mankind merits a reward, which even a want of success in his endeavors
to
save his country, the heaviest misfortune which can befall a genuine
patriot,
cannot entirely prevent him from receiving. 
{Timothy McVeigh - sog}

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Secret Service
the start of the Spanish-American War led to the first legal use of
the Secret
Service for Presidential protection. A detail of four agents, operating
under special emergency was
fund, was assigned to the Executive Mansion to guard McKinley around
the clock. They were
stationed on the first and second floors of the Mansion and on the
White House grounds. [13]

[13 During the Spanish-American War, the Secret Service also served
as the primary intelligence
agency for the War Departnent. It gathered intelligence and conducted
counter espionage activities
both domestically and abroad.]

72

After the war, Secret Service operatives continued to serve at the
White House at least part
of the time. In addition, operatives regularly accompanied McKinley
during his travels. With the
expiration of the emergency war fund these activities once again exceeded
the Secret Service's
statutory authority. However, Secret Service Chief John Wilkie felt
obligated to provide the
protection anyway. President McKinley received a large number of threats,
which seemed
particularly credible in light of a series of political assassinations
that took place in Europe during
this period.

In 1901, President McKinley was shot and fatally wounded by anarchist
Leon Czolgosz
while standing in a receiving line at the Pan American Exposition in
Buffalo, New ork. Three
Secret Service operatives were guarding him at the time, along with
eighteen exposition policemen,
eleven members of the Coast Guard, and four Buffalo city detectives.
One of the Secret Service
operatives was out of position when Czolgosz approached President McKinley,
because the
president of the exposition d requested the spot directly next to MdCinley,
where the operative
normally stood.

, in 1906, Congress quietly included language in the Sundry Civil Expenses
Act authorizing
the Secretary of the Treasury to use funds for "the protection of theperson
of the President of the
United States."
{Treasury=Money=Illuminatti - sog}

Since the Secret Service was officially
authorized to provide protective services in 1906, only one person
has been killed under its watch
- President John F. Kennedy, who was fatally wounded by Lee Harvey
Oswald while riding in a
motorcade through Dallas, Texas, on November 22, 1963.

Since the inception of the Secret Service, however, there also have
been six other
potentially deadly assaults on Secret Service protectees.

The first occurred on February 1, 1933, in Miami, Florida Giuseppe
Zangara fired five
shots a President-elect Franklin D. Roosevelt, who was making an impromptu
speech while sitting
in an open car that had stopped momentarily. Although none of the shots
hit President Roosevelt,
Zangara mortally wounded Anton Cermak, the Mayor of Chicago, and hit
four other people,
including a Secret Service agent.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC 
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 00:15:36 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: FDR7
Message-ID: <009C9C7C.5CABC0E0.15@west.cscwc.pima.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


The Manchurian Candidate
~ Raymond Shaw

1901 
McKinley is assassinated by anarchist; he is succeeded by Theodore
Roosevelt

1911 
FDR receives degree of Master Mason conferred by Holland Lodge No.
8, New ork
City, 28 November

1913 
FDR is appointed assistant secretary of the Navy, April

1919 
FDR travels to Europe to supervise naval establishment, January-February
  1919 -- Adolph Hitler joins the Thule Society in Germany.  In the
Thule Society, the 'black sun' played a prominent role as a 'sacred'
symbol of the Aryans.  The inner core within the Thule Society are
all Satanists. 

1927 
FDR founds the Georgia Warm Springs Foundation, therapy center for
the treatment of
polio victims
Stalin becomes Soviet dictator
{FDR given quarter-million to run - sog}

1928 
FDR again placed in nomination at Democratic National Convention B
Governor Alfred
E. Smith
FDR is elected governor of New ork, opposed by Alfred Ottinger, by
50.3 percent of the
vote, 6 November

1933 
FDR is shot at in assassination attempt in Miami, Florida, by Guiseppe
Zangara, 15
February
FDR is inaugurated as 32nd president, 4 March
U.S. recognizes the USSR and resumes trade
The Twenty-First Amendment repeals prohibition

1945 
FDR dies, Warm Springs, Georgia, 12 April; buried Hyde Park, New ork,
15 April
Mussolini is killed
Hitler commits suicide, Germany surrenders

He fired shot after
shot at FDR, but a woman's quick move knocked the gun upward. The bullets
hit several
bystanders and mortally wounded Mayor Cermak of Miami. 
{Cermak was standing *beside* FDR-gun knocked upward would not change
hit targets - sog}

In assassination cases, there has always existed the dilemma of establishing
the murderer's
sanity. Authorities are uncomfortable to admit that sane people kill
government leaders. At the
same time, many feel that if the assassin is deemed insane, he will
escape "proper" punishment.
It is much easier to lock upon the assassin as a steely-eyed, cold
blooded killer, who is a threat
to society...and only half crazy.

Nineteen days after Fromme's failed attempt, Sara Jane Moore fired
a shot at President Ford,
but missed. Prior to the attack, she wrote the following poem:

"Hold-Hold, still my hand.
Steady my eye, chill my heart,
And let my gun sing for the people.
Scream their anger, cleanse with their 
hate,
And kill this monster."

While most assassins have deep, emotional problems, few are truly insane,
unable to distinguish
between right and wrong. Defendants are presumed to be sane and responsible
for their crimes
until the contrary can be proven. In order to establish insanity, it
must be proved that, at the time
of the offense, the defendant was laboring under such a defect or disease
of the mind so as not
to know the nature and quality of the act or did not know that it was
wrong. This is referred to
as the McNaughton Rule, and it is based on an 1843 assassination case.

John Schrank was convicted of shooting former-President Theodore Roosevelt
in 1912.
Roosevelt recovered from the wound and carried Schrank's bullet in
his chest for the rest of his
life

John W. Hinckley Jr. was acquitted by reason of insanity for shooting
President Ronald Reagan
in 1981. He has been held in St. Elizabeth's Hospital since his trial
and has petitioned the courts
to win his release.
{Cermak-Brady - sog}

In 1935, Dr. Carl Weiss shot and killed Senator Huey Long outside the
governor's office of the
Louisiana State Capitol Building in Baton Rouge. Long's bodyguards
opened fire on Weiss,
killing him instantly. He suffered more than 50 bullet wounds. There
is evidence that suggests
Long was accidentally shot and killed by one of his own guards.ods
are those with high rates of female-headed
families, welfare dependency and labor force and school dropouts. 

In 1990, in the typical
"bad behavior" white underclass tract, 55 percent of the men did not
participate in the work force
and 42 percent of the residents had dropped out of school; the corresponding
figures for black
tracts were 62 percent and 36 percent...
They are easy for politicians to manipulate and are no threat to do
anything very imaginative or even act in concert in defense of their
own interests without outside
leadership. They also constitute a talking point. Politicians can talk
about taking steps to correct
the problem and improve conditions for these "victims of society."
Humans are social beings, they require an emotional and spiritual bond
to their
society, with that society viewed as a collective entity. Intellectuals
spend their lives constructing
and tinkering with their identities.

the educational system of the United States. It is
clearly inadequate, since ordinary people in an advanced industrial
society should be able to handle
abstract reasoning 
It is not that the system has failed at what it set out to
do. One cannot be said to have failed at something one has never attempted.
It is important to keep ordinary people in their place
If ordinary people were able to reason effectively and draw conclusions
about matters outside of
their day to day experience, then they might start asking questions
that politicians would have
difficulty answering.

t the belief in lack of ability tends to bring about that lack of ability.

What one must keep in mind in regard to this stereotype is that it
constitutes an assertion as to fact.
In other words, it is not a moral principle, it is not a value judgement,
and it is not, in itself, an
expression of prejudice. If one were to assert it, knowing and believing
that it was false, then it
would be an expression of prejudice.
One can only be truly equal if one accepts the same burdens and responsibilities
as everyone else.
. One, of course, needs to throw in the sexual stereotypes also, since
they played a similar role in building identity. The main problem is
to understand the function of
ethnic identity in a society.

sense of duty and obligation. One cannot feel
such a sense of duty without a clear understanding of one's place in
the world. That is what identity
is all about. The collective identity, which the people of Oaxaca have,
is what makes each
individual accountable to society. Peer pressure, as one sees in operation
in the case of Mr.
Santiago, is the means by which a fully functional society influences
and modifies the behavior of its
members.

In the United States, such outpourings of ethnic sentiment on the part
of the dominant culture are
discouraged
There is to be no
expression of ethnic identity not approved by the intellectual establishment.
The government must
seek to suppress any alternative means of social control. All legitimate
power must be held by the
government, even to the point of making every member of society a criminal.
*** {TCM tag-line - sog} ***

e sum total of the effort. Attacks on certain forms of religious expression
are part of it also, but it
is the "Civil Rights Movement" that provides an excuse for government
to intrude into all kinds of
interpersonal relationships. The more the government can do this, the
more people are alienated
from society. People are no longer accountable to one another but to
a vast impersonal
bureaucracy. One must recall that this is the basic premise of Totalitarian
social organization.

The purpose of this effort is to crush all opposition to the agenda
of the ruling oligarchy. The
democratic forms are meaningless in the absence of a willingness on
the part of the population in
general to assume collective responsibility for the maintenance of
social order. All power ultimately
lies in the hands of those who perform that function. The people in
general can only do this by
means of imposing their collective identity in the ways the author
has described. If one can destroy
the emotional and spiritual bonds that provide the sort of collective
identity which U.S. society
once had, then one has only millions of sheep and a few wolves.

. From a recent book on the human brain one has:
The sexes are different because their brains are different. The brain,
the chief administrative and
emotional organ of life, is differently constructed in men and in women;
it processes information in
a different way, which results in different perceptions, priorities
and behavior.

human behavior in general is much more biologically driven than was
believed previously.
What this means, among other things, is that human behavior cannot
be modified beyond certain
limits. It is not possible, for instance, to fundamentally change the
nature of the male/female
relationship

The problem in this Detroit neighborhood is not that welfare benefits
are too low. After all, these
people are very wealthy compared to Mr. Santiago. What they have not
received from society is a
strong sense of ethnic identity. As a result, they have rejected society
and have set out to make
their own. One sees them assuming the responsibility for the maintenance
of social order but in an
antisocial context. The gang symbols and mode of dress are a typical
male effort to impose their
identity on the environment, just as Mr. Santiago was doing in placing
flowers at the statue of the
patron saint. In the matter of the gang symbols, however, one sees
a pattern of social
disintegration.

In the case of Americans, great efforts are made in the form of entertainment,
bizarre
religious activities (The Branch Davidians, for example), appeals to
great collective efforts (Save
the Whale), self improvement (lose weight), and many other artificial
undertakings to give life
meaning and purpose. 

The problem with American society is precisely this artificiality.
If one rejects ethnic identity and
the social cohesion that it provides, then one must resort to coercion.

Unfortunately, there is an end to that twisted path. In order to survive,
a society must conform itself
to the psychological needs of the average person and not attempt to
coerce people into
conforming to some false ideology. 
the government is a big
part of the cause of the problem in that it has set out to undermine
identity

1927
Despite international protest and allegations of perjury,
evidence tampering, and judicial prejudice, Anarchists
Nicola Sacco and Bartolomeo Vanzetti are executed for
robbery and murder. 

1966
Eagle Scout and ex-Marine Charles Whitman opens fire
from atop the 27-story tower at the University of Texas at
Austin. He kills 21 people and wounds nearly 30 before
being killed by police. 

  THE OMEGA FILE:   
  [Greys, Nazis, Underground Bases, and the New World Order]  
          by Branton
they have taken control of much of the 'underground black budget empire'
-- a vast network of interconnected underground military-industrial
bases and cities that have been constructed with the assistance of
TRILLIONS [yes, I said TRILLIONS] of dollars siphoned from the American
economy via taxes, drugs, organized crime, etc., money which has literally
gone 'down the tubes', leaving our economy in a state of chaos.  
{Is it reasonable to believe that those who monitor 'all'
communications, and control banking & finance become 'stupid'
when it comes to Trillions of dollars of black-market income?
Duhhh... - sog}

  510410 - Truman relieves General MacArthur of his command and replaces
him with Gen. Ridgeway, a CFR member.  MacArthur earlier disobeys U.N.
directives by initiating a secret attack on the Communist stronghold
at Inchon [leading to a quick end of the war], after he and other military
leaders suspected the pro-Socialist U.N. officials of betraying their
battle plans to the North Koreans.  Truman goes into hiding at Camp
David for two weeks following MacArthur's return, fearing that the
highest-ranking military general in the United States would arrest
him for treason.  After Truman fires MacArthur for his unauthorized
military action, he recieves much condemnation from confused and angered
patriotic Americans who criticize Truman for his decision.

  521104 - NSA: Presidential Executive Orders exempts NSA from all laws.
National Security Agency imputed with even more power and influence
than CIA.
  530000 - Dwight Eisenhower becomes president.  Eisenhower appoints
Nelson Rockefeller to group on Govt. reorganization.  It was Rockefeller,
in collaboration with 'Nazi' agents, who assisted in the establishment
of MJ-12, the NSA and CIA as fronts for Bavarian Intelligence, a 'secret
government' within the Constitutional government.  Many who have gotten
close to the CIA's ultimate secret -- that is the Nazi S.S. controlling
factor -- are murdered by CIA assassins.  Allan Dulles, CIA Director,
approves mind control project MKDELTA.  
{Post-War Presidents / Navy / CIA / NSA - sog}

  740000 - Gerald Ford becomes President.  Nelson Rockefeller becomes
Vice-president.  (Note: Here is an alternative to a famous parable:
"A fool and his money are soon elected"! - Branton)

  1919 -- Adolph Hitler joins the Thule Society in Germany.  In the
Thule Society, the 'black sun' played a prominent role as a 'sacred'
symbol of the Aryans.  The inner core within the Thule Society are
all Satanists. 

1919 
FDR travels to Europe to supervise naval establishment, January-February

  1934 -- the vast Rockefeller financial empire, in an effort to back
German racial superiority and eugenics, financially supports Nazi Germany
in collaboration with Prescott Bush [George Bush's father].  In 1929
the German Ernst Rudin enacts German Sterilization Laws.
{Eugenics was Policy forerunner of Planned ParentHoods - sog}

  1943 -- General Reinhard Gehlen infiltrates Soviat intelligence. 
Gehlen forms a partnership with Allen Dulles [a Bavarian Illuminist
and American 'Nazi'], which results in the creation of the CIA [and
some years later the more powerful NSA] from a core of Nazi SS intelligence
officers brought to the US under the auspices of Operation Sunrise,
Overcast, and Paperclip

On April 12, Roosevelt dies and Harry Truman, a high Mason as was Roosevelt,
becomes President of the United States.  On May 7, 1945, Germany surrenders.

Whether Truman was directly aware of the fact that his sponsors, the
German-American Rockefellers, had financed the Bolshevik and Nazi revolutions,
is uncertain.  

  1952 -- Reinhard Gehlen and Allen Dulles are dubbed Knights of Malta
by the VATICAN.

Jesus of Nazareth - the Christ - or Melchizedek

The following are some of the subjects that radio personality David
Emory has covered on his talk-radio broadcasts in California:

-- The pivotal role that Nazi and fascist elements played in the assassination
of President Kennedy... evidence that American and German "Neo-Nazis",
the Gehlen spy organization and Nazi rocket specialists working under
Werner Von Braun figured prominently in the killing.
-- The support American industrialists and financiers gave to Hitler's
Germany and how this affected the allied military policy during the
war as well as the incorporation of the Third Reich's intelligence
forces into the CIA at the conflict's conclusion.
-- The SS origin of the Green Berets, the re-establishment of Nazi
elements in West Germany after the war, as well as Nazi influences
on Senator Joe McCarthy, Interpol and the Alger Hiss case.
-- The pivotal role in the Cold War played by Hitler's most important
spymaster and his Nazi Eastern Front intelligence organization... the
Gehlen organization's incorporation into the CIA; its role in establishing
Radio Free Europe AND the first Palestinian terrorist groups as well
as Gehlen's personal political ideology.
-- The evolution of American fascism from the 1930's to the present...

-- The assassination program which eliminated the democratic leadership
of Weimar Germany paving the way for Hitler's rise to power... the
formation of the Nazi Party as a front for German military intelligence.
-- The Third Reich's extermination programs from the "mercy killing"
of handicapped children to the Auschwitz death factory.  The Nazi liquidation's
are exposed as a direct outgrowth of the international eugenics and
mental hygiene movements, both mainstream movements with important
implications for contemporary society.
-- Circumstantial evidence suggesting that then vice-president George
Bush may have been involved with the attempt on the life of former
President Reagan... the close connections between the family of convicted
would-be assassin John Hinckley and the Bush family as well as Hinckley's
Nazi background. 
-- Livin' In The USA: The Search for Nazi War Criminals.  In 1985,
the San Francisco Examiner listed ten Third Reich fugitives considered
to be the "most wanted" of all war criminals... the fact that most
of them worked for U.S. intelligence after the war.
-- Adolf Hitler's escape from Germany at the end of World War II using
information contained in previously classified U.S. intelligence archives,
accessed by a London Times journalist and discussed in a military history
quarterly.
--(Note: It is indeed curious that the American Psychiatric Association
initially contained over 2,000 German 'immigrant' members following
World War II.  The APA also was/is involved in GUN CONTROL lobbying.
Branton)
-- From the www.buildfreedom.com website we read: "A principle player
in the 1974 foundings of both HCI [then called the National Council
to Control Handguns] and the NCBH [National Coalition to Ban Handguns,
now renamed the Coalition Against Gun Violence] was Ed Wells, who was
A 25-EAR VETERAN OF THE COVERT OPERATIONS DIVISION OF THE CIA... There
was also a fund raiser for NCBH hosted by the man Nixon appointed as
CIA Director, William Colby... HCI spokesman Greg Risch -- incredibly
-- admitted that "SURE THERE ARE A LOT OF CIA PEOPLE IN IT [HCI]",
and also stated that there are quite a few "EX-CIA WHO DONATE TO US."

-- Several reasons for American's lack of awareness of fascism, its
history and its methodology: lowering American educational standards
and the deliberate obfuscation of the historical connection between
powerful industrial and financial interests and fascism.  Both have
significantly undermined contemporary understanding of the political
forces which produced Hitler and Mussolini...
-- the clandestine methodology of fascism, in particular the underground
organizational structure of fascist movements and its effectiveness
in subverting established democracies... 

In the aftermath of World War I, the German Nazis learned that anti
communism could be used to achieve strategic leverage over Germany's
prospective enemies such as Great Britain and the United States. 
  The Third Reich sought to escape the full consequences of military
defeat in World War II by playing the anti-Communist card again.  
Although a few of the more obvious and obnoxious elements of Nazism
were removed, Nazis were returned to power at virtually every level
and in almost every capacity in the Federal Republic of Germany. 

  In its American incarnation, liberation theory called for "rolling
back" communism out of Eastern Europe and the break-up of the Soviet
Union into its constituent ethnic Republics.
{We give half of Europe to the Soviets and then immediately 
declare them the Great Enemy, and strive to 'free' the same
countries we handed them. Duuhhh... -sog}

the United States badly compromised its democratic institutions during
the Cold War, possibly beyond repair.

Mind Control - or if the phrase "remember to forget" has a great significance
to you, you may want to read on & consider contacting me.  
{Elvis / "I Forgot To Remember To Forget" - sog}
"Oswald Acted Alone, But Elvis Was Part Of The Conspiracy"

Although Texas law
required an immediate autopsy in Dallas, the site of the crime, Crenshaw
insisted that a swarm of Secret Service agents entered the hospital
and demanded that the autopsy be performed out of state.  It is interesting
that the Secret Service of the U.S. and other countries are reportedly
patched directly into the highest levels of Scottish Rite Masonry,
or the Bavarian Illumiati.  

Every witness who could shed light on the Kennedy murders has been
systematically hunted down and murdered.  [I seek information from
those who were in it.  I believe I already know one who was.  ou might
know something about it if you recognize the code name BLACKHAWK. 

Other victims of assassination by the Group whose names will be recognized
include Franklin D. Roosevelt, Marilyn Monroe, Mahatma Gandhi, Anwar
Sadat & Olof Palme. There have been many thousands more.

Dwight D. Eisenhower -- whose campaign was sponsored by the Rockefellers
and through whose administration many of the national socialist policies
of the Rockefellers were implemented within the U.S. Intelligence Agencies

They want to impose on this planet a centralized world oligarchy -
not a democracy -- akin to a FASCIST state in which there will be genocide
on a massive scale, total state control over all aspects of human behavior
and communication and control of the human mind and spirit through
manipulation of the world's major religions, genetic engineering, drugs,
tightly-controlled media and by other means.  
{We are 'part-time' defenders against genocide,etc. - sog}
{Part-time defenders against DrugLordsWhoHaveConnectionsToBush - sog}

Brave New World.  Huxley apparently knew about the plan from his brother.

  In addition, a good part of the funding over the years has come from
large-scale diversions of funds from all major treasuries in the western
world.
The 'skim' appears to be about .5% of all incoming funds.

one of Gen. Gehlen's specialties in WWII Nazi intelligence -- divert
attention to the "Red menace."  

   What the Group wanted by the time of the "incubation period" [1995
2000] was a society that was uneducated, amoral, uncommitted to democratic
institutions, living in fear, with a sudden and very drastic reduction
in spendable income simultaneous with societal chaos.  

dramatically increased media [TV] portrayal of violence and joblessness
[role models have no jobs, bad guys live in big houses, etc.; begin
your reading with 'The Early Window', by Liebert & Sprafkin], reduced
the standards of education and early training for rational thought

{Roosevelt's Spending War --> Cold Spending War --> War Spending
On Drugs --> War On InterNetCrimePedophileTerrorists - sog}

(Remember that the 'root' of the 'New World Order' agenda can be traced
back to the secret occultic societies connected to Bavaria, Germany
-- the Illuminati, Thule, Nazis, Vril, Rosicrucian, Black Gnostics,
Skull & Bones, Cult of the Serpent, Templars, Babylon Mystery Cult,
O.T.O., Golden Dawn, Jesuits, and all of the many lesser-known inter
locking secret societies which grew out of the occult-military core
of the early Roman Empire and the later 'Holy Roman Empire' [HO.R.E.]
-- a core that had its center of power not only in Rome but also in
Germany. - Branton) 

They kill on command.  THE ARE ARTIFICIALL-PRODUCED 'MULTIPLE' PERSONALITIES.
One of the top people in their development appears to have been Sirhan
Sirhan's psychiatrist, DR. DIAMOND.

the United Nations Organization or UNO is deeply involved in this fascist
global conspiracy.  Just note the controversy surrounding former U.N.
Secretary General and Austrian Kurt Waldheim concerning his Nazi past
and allegations that he is a war criminal

secret Nazi S.S.-connected Society which reputedly has retrieved the
"Spear of Destiny" which so fascinated Adolph Hitler

On the outside Nazism and Communism may seem to be in conflict, however
it was the Rockefellers and the German Black Nobility cults who created
BOTH movements.  Tyranny is tyranny, whether it be National Socialism
or Global Socialism.  Perhaps the Bavarians created two types of Socialism:
Global Socialism -- as a means to tear down the international competition;
and National Socialism -- as a means to build up the German empire.

We should NEVER forget that Lenin, the Communist Revolutionist, was
an agent of the GERMAN government.  What is not commonly known is that
Stalin murdered nearly 6 million Jews during the World War II period,
as did Hitler.  

the Rockefeller's -- according to Economics expert and advisor Antony
Sutton and others -- had financially backed BOTH the Bolsheviks AND
the Nazis 
We must remember that National Socialism [Nazism] IS 'Socialism' 

  Col. W.J. Heimlich, former Chief, United States Intelligence, at Berlin,
stated for publication that he was in charge of determining what had
happened to Hitler and after a thorough investigation his report was:
"There was no evidence beyond that of HEARSA to support the THEOR
of Hitler's suicide."  He also stated, "On the basis of present evidence,
no insurance company in America would pay a claim on Adolph Hitler."

  I still have the September, 1948, issue of a magazine called "The
Plain Truth" with the headline article: "IS HITLER ALIVE, OR DEAD?,"
subtitled: "Here is summarized the conclusions of an exhaustive three
year investigation -- together with reasons for believing Hitler may
be alive and secretly planning the biggest hoax of all history."
  Another article in November, 1949, says "The Nazis went underground,
May 16, 1943!" and details a meeting at the residence of Krupp von
Bohlen-Halbach, the head of I.G. FARBEN, etc., at which they planned
"FOR WORLD WAR III."
  The June, 1952, issue of "The Plain Truth" is headlined: "HITLER 'May
Be Alive!'"  The article states: "Now, NEW FACTS, or purported facts,
leak out.  It's reported now that in 1940 the Nazis started to amass
tractors, planes, sledges, gliders, and all sorts of machinery and
materials IN THE SOUTH POLAR REGIONS -- that for the next 4 years Nazi
technicians built, on an almost unknown CONTINENT, Antarctica, the
Fuhrer's SHANGRILA -- a new Berchtesgaden."
{HWA/GTA/SOG - sog}

in spite of Glasnost and the new freedom of access to Russian files,
the files on Hitler are still some of the most
highly classified items of the Soviets.
{The citizen as Schillple...we let Them hide the Truth and
then ridicule anyone with an opinion/view which contadicts
the Official Story. - sog}
{Even when The Facts obviously/blatantly contradict the
Official Story...as per, Hitler not proven dead...ever
see *that* in the school history books? - sog}

Harry Dexter White [real name Weiss] under Henry Morgenthau 
When J. Edgar Hoover went to President Truman with all the evidence
that the Assistant Secretary of the Treasury was a Communist spy and
thief, TRUMAN of course removed Weiss [White] from his job -- and PROMOTED
HIM to head of the International Monetary Fund.  I kid you not, look
it up.  (This tells you whose side Truman was really on. - Branton)
The story has a rather common ending -- when a controversy developed
in the press concerning this incident, Weiss became a "suicide."
{AKA/VFoster/SOP - sog}

"Martin Bormann, Nazi in Exile" by Paul Manning 

  The Russians were NATIONALISTS, as opposed to [the] Bolsheviks who
took their country away from them.  The [so-called] Bolsheviks were
trained in the lower East Side of New ork City and financed by New
ork and London bankers.  
They invaded Russia, killed the Tzar and many Nationalists and took
over the government.
{Those with $ and planning win...EoStory. Where do honest people
get funding and support in a corrupt worlds? - sog}

  In 1932, the British-led "Eugenics'' movement designated the Rockefellers'
Dr. Rudin as the president of the worldwide Eugenics Federation.  The
movement called for the killing or sterilization of people whose HEREDIT
made them a public burden.
A few months later, Hitler took over Germany and the Rockefeller-Rudin
apparatus became a section of the Nazi state.  The regime appointed
Rudin head of the Racial Hygiene Society.  Rudin and his staff, as
part of the Task Force of Heredity Experts chaired by SS chief Heinrich
Himmler, drew up the sterilization law.  Described as an American Model
law, it was adopted in July 1933 and proudly printed in the September
1933 Eugenical News [USA] with Hitler's signature.  The Rockefeller
group drew up other race laws, also based on existing Virginia statutes.
  The 'T4'' unit of the Hitler Chancery, based on psychiatrists led
by Rudin and his staff, cooperated in creating propaganda films to
sell mercy killing [euthanasia] to German citizens.  The public reacted
antagonistically:  Hitler had to withdraw a tear-jerker right-to-die
film from the movie theaters.  The proper groundwork had not yet been
laid.

  Under the Nazis, the German chemical company I.G.  FARBEN and Rockefeller's
STANDARD [EXXON] OIL of New Jersey were effectively a SINGLE FIRM,
merged in hundreds of cartel arrangements.  I.G. FARBEN was led up
until 1937 by the Warburg family, Rockefeller's partner in banking
and in the design of Nazi German eugenics.
  Following the German invasion of Poland in 1939, Standard Oil pledged
to keep the merger with I.G. Farben going even if the U.S. entered
the war.  This was exposed in 1942 by Sen. Harry Truman's investigating
committee, and President Roosevelt took hundreds of legal measures
during the war to stop the Standard - I.G. Farben cartel from supplying
the enemy war machine.
  In 1940-41, I.G. Farben built a gigantic factory at Auschwitz in Poland,

DR. MENGELE...
In 1943, Otmar Verschuer's assistant Josef Mengele was made medical
commandant of Auschwitz.  As wartime director of Rockefeller's Kaiser
Wilhelm Institute for Anthropology, Eugenics and Human Heredity in
Berlin, Verschuer secured funds for Mengele's experiments at Auschwitz
from the German Research Council.  

(Remember, the Rockefellers were originally German immigrants to America.
- Branton)

  In 1936, Rockefeller's Dr. Franz Kallmann interrupted his study of
hereditary degeneracy and emigrated to America because he was half
Jewish.  Kallmann went to New ork and established the Medical Genetics
Department of the New ork State Psychiatric Institute.  The SCOTTISH
RITE of Freemasonry published Kallman's study of over 1,000 cases of
schizophrenia, which tried to prove its hereditary basis.  In the book,
Kallmann thanked his long-time boss and mentor Rudin.
  Kallmann's book, published in 1938 in the USA and Nazi Germany, was
used by the T4 unit as a rationalization to begin in 1939 the murder
of mental patients and various "defectives"
{ForeRunner to genetic/cloning/'grafting' technology - sog}
{Hitler was *scapegoat* for excesses of SOP - sog}




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC 
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 00:15:56 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: FDR8
Message-ID: <009C9C7C.68C856E0.17@west.cscwc.pima.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


In the 1950s, the Rockefellers reorganized the U.S. eugenics movement
in their own family offices, with spinoff population-control AND abortion
groups The Eugenics Society changed its name to the "Society for the
Study of Social Biology", its current name.
  With support from the Rockefellers, the Eugenics Society [England]
set up a sub-committee called the INTERNATIONAL PLANNED PARENTHOOD
FEDERATION, which  for 12 years had no other address than the Eugenics
Society.
  (Note: Margaret Sanger plays a central role in this PLANNED PARENTHOOD
network.
In her book 'PIVOT OF CIVILIZATION',  in reference to free MATERNIT
care for the poor, Sanger states: "Instead of DECREASING and aiming
to ELIMINATE THE STOCKS that are most detrimental to the future of
the race and the world it tends to render them to a menacing degree
dominant.")
{PILOT Of Civilization(?) - sog}

Rockefellers, who played a major role in grooming the agents of the
Communist-Socialist revolution in Russia AND the agents of the National
Socialist revolution in Germany.  Whether it is left-handed Socialism
or right-handed Socialism -- Socialism either way you look at it is
TOTALITARIANISM! - Branton).  

  "...How many of you have seen the book 'BLANK CHECK'?... It is not
a UFO book.  I strongly recommend that you read the book 'BLANK CHECK'
so that you can understand something about how these projects are funded
without your say so, indeed WITHOUT THE SA SO OF CONGRESS.

Garrison might have convicted Clay Shaw if not for the fact that Garrison's
star witness David Ferry was killed a few days before he was to testify
at Clay Shaw's trial.  

*** FEMA / FEMA / FEMA ***

(Most do not realize that Adolph Hitler's second book, after he wrote
MEIN KAMPF, was titled -- believe it or not -- "THE NEW WORLD ORDER".
- Branton)

  SPECULATE NO MORE ON THE SUSPICIOUS SUICIDE OF ADMIRAL MICHAEL BOORDA
[FORMER DIRECTOR OF THE U.S. NAVAL FORCES].  I WAS INFORMED HE WAS
TERMINATED BECAUSE OF HIS REFUSAL TO COOPERATE IN THE COVERT PLAN B
OUR TRAITOROUS NWO FORCES WITHIN OUR OWN GOVERNMENT TO ASSIST IN THE
COMING INVASION OF AMERICA. 
{America is in perfect position to serve as the Great Beast of the
World which must be destroyed, like Nazi Germany. - sog}

The following information is c1997, Andrew H. Hochheimer, and may not
be reposted without written permission.
{es it can... - sog}

I think it is important that people start reading 'The Full Story'
when pursuing any fringe topic like
Ufology, the Bermuda Triangle, etc. There are plenty of paranoid delusionists
writing books like
"Aliens told me 'Humans taste like chicken...'" 

file:///C|/New Deal/Dave Emory/Nazi Roosevelt.txt
Topic 203       Hitler won
gn:peacenews    News from War Resisters International    7:18 PM  Apr
25, 1995

by MILAN RAI

First the empire, second the war against Nazism -- and even that
only to secure "our interests". The historical record after the war
bears out these priorities. Throughout the world, the British and
US governments installed those willing to cater to their
"interests", even when these were fascists or collaborators who the
war had supposedly been against. Throughout the world, Britain and
the USA destroyed those who stood in the way of their plans for
control, even when these resisters were the democrats and
anti-fascists who had fought alongside the Anglo-American forces.

Subject: 
"... would cause us to look at this person as a threat" 
Date: 
Tue, 12 May 1998 11:45:14 -0700 
From: 
Tim May 
To: 
cypherpunks@cyberpass.net

I just saw this on one of the newsgroups:

"A cultist is one who has a strong belief in the Bible and the Second
Coming of Christ; who frequently attends Bible studies; who has a high
level of financial giving to a Christian cause; who home schools for
their children; who has accumulated survival foods and has a strong
belief in the Second Amendment; and who distrusts big government. 
Any
of these may qualify [a person as a cultist] but certainly more than
one
[of these] would cause us to look at this person as a threat, and his
family as being in a risk situation that qualified for government
interference."
-Attorney General Janet Reno, Interview on 60 Minutes, June 26, 1994

No wonder the government views so many people as threats.

How does "qualified for government interference" square with the First,
Second, and Fourth Amendments?

(No doubt Janet also believes that belief in that pesky Fifth Amendment,
not to mention the rest of the Constitution, will cause the government
to
look at these wackos as threats and worth of "government interference."

I'm looking forward to the ear 2000 Meltdown. This fucked up country
needs
a low-level reformatting. And a million government criminals and welfare
addicts sent to the wall.

--Tim May

"The tree of liberty must be watered periodically with the blood of
tyrants...."
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:------
--:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms,
zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist              | black markets, collapse of governments.

Long ago and far away, Adolf Hitler was talking to Hermann Rauschning
and
said, "The people about us are unaware of what is really happening
to them:
They gaze fascinated at one or two familiar superficialities, such
as
possession and income and rank and other outworn conceptions. As long
as
these are kept intact, they are quite satisfied. But in the meantime
they
have entered a new relation: a powerful social force has caught them
up.
They themselves are changed. What are ownership and income to that?
Why need
we trouble to socialize banks and factories? We socialize human beings."

I see someone has made a TV movie of "Brave New World." Are we to view
it
as a work of fiction, or a Scribean foreshadowing of what looms in
the very
near future?

Geoff Metcalf 

"War is a matter of vital importance for the state;
it is the province of life and death, the road which
leads to survival or elimination. It is essential
to study it in depth".
Sun Tzu, "The Art of War"

http://www.monde-diplomatique.fr/md/en/1997/08-09/marcos.html
The fourth world war has begun
In Chiapas, the Zapatista National Liberation
Army issued no directives about the elections, choosing instead
to withdraw to the sheltering greenery of the Lacandona Forest.
>From this sanctuary the head of the ZNLA, Sub-Commandant
Marcos, sent us this original and geostrategic analysis of the
new world picture.
by Sub-Commandant Marcos
* Zapatista National Liberation Army, Chiapas, Mexico

The defeat of the "evil empire" has opened up new markets, and the
struggle over
them is leading to a new world war - the fourth.

Unlike the third world war, in which the conflict between capitalism
and socialism
took place over a variety of terrains and with varying degrees of intensity,
the fourth
world war is being conducted between major financial centres in theatres
of war that
are global in scale and with a level of intensity that is fierce and
constant.

The third world war showed the benefits of "total war" for its victor,
which was
capitalism. In the post-cold war period we see the emergence of a new
planetary
scenario in which the principal conflictual elements are the growing
importance of
no-man's-lands (arising out of the collapse of the Eastern bloc countries),
the
expansion of a number of major powers (the United States, the European
Union and
Japan), a world economic crisis and a new technical revolution based
on information
technology.

Thanks to computers and the technological revolution, the financial
markets,
operating from their offices and answerable to nobody but themselves,
have been
imposing their laws and world-view on the planet as a whole. Globalisation
is merely
the totalitarian extension of the logic of the finance markets to all
aspects of life.
Where they were once in command of their economies, the nation states
(and their
governments) are commanded - or rather telecommanded - by the same
basic logic
of financial power, commercial free trade. And in addition, this logic
has profited
from a new permeability created by the development of telecommunications
to
appropriate all aspects of social activity. At last, a world war which
is totally total!

The new international capitalism renders national capitalism
obsolete and effectively starves their public powers into extinction.
The blow has
been so brutal that sovereign states have lost the strength to defend
their citizens'
interests.

The fine showcase inherited from the ending of the cold war - the new
world order -
has shattered into fragments as a result of the neoliberal explosion.
It takes no more
than a few minutes for companies and states to be sunk - but they are
sunk not by
winds of proletarian revolution, but by the violence of the hurricanes
of world finance.

The son (neoliberalism) is devouring the father (national capital)
and, in the process,
is destroying the lies of capitalist ideology: in the new world order
there is neither
democracy nor freedom, neither equality nor fraternity. The planetary
stage is
transformed into a new battlefield, in which chaos reigns.

Megalopolises are reproducing themselves right across the planet. Their
favourite
spawning ground is in the world's free trade areas. In North America,
the North
American Free Trade Agreement between Canada, the United States and
Mexico is
a prelude to the accomplishment of an old dream of US conquest: "America
for the
Americans".

Are megalopolises replacing nations? No, or rather not merely that.
They are
assigning them new functions, new limits and new perspectives. Entire
countries are
becoming departments of the neoliberal mega-enterprise. 

the financial centres are working on a reconstruction of nation states
and are
reorganising them within a new logic: the economic has the upper hand
over the
social.

In this new war, politics, as the organiser of the nation state, no
longer exists. Now
politics serves solely in order to manage the economy, and politicians
are now merely
company managers.

The world's new masters have no need to govern directly. National governments
take
on the role of running things on their behalf. This is what the new
order means -
unification of the world into one single market.
The unification produced by
neoliberalism is economic: in the giant planetary hypermarket it is
only commodities
that circulate freely, not people.

What we have
here is a destruction of the material bases of nation states, but we
also have a
destruction of history and culture.
Neoliberalism thus imposes the destruction of
nations and of groups of nations in order to fuse them into one single
model. The war
which neoliberalism is conducting against humanity is thus a planetary
war, and is the
worst and most cruel ever seen.

What we have here is a puzzle. 
The first of these pieces is the two-fold accumulation of wealth and
of poverty at the
two poles of planetary society. The second is the total exploitation
of the totality of
the world. The third is the nightmare of that part of humanity condemned
to a life of
wandering. The fourth is the sickening relationship between crime and
state power.
The fifth is state violence. The sixth is the mystery of megapolitics.
The seventh is the
multiple forms of resistance which humanity is deploying against neoliberalism.

Piece no. 1: The concentration of wealth and the distribution of poverty

The earth has five billion human inhabitants:
of these, only 500 million live comfortably; the remaining 4.5 billion
endure lives of
poverty. 
The gap between rich and poor is enormous: far from decreasing, social
inequalities are growing.

Piece no. 2: The globalisation of exploitation

the world capitalist system is
"modernising" the production, circulation and consumption of commodities.
The new
technological revolution (information technology) and the new revolution
in politics
(the megalopolises emerging from the ruins of the nation state) produce
a new social
"revolution". This social revolution consists of a rearrangement, a
reorganisation of
social forces and, principally, of the workforce.

The world's economically active population (EAP) went from 1.38 billion
in 1960 to
2.37 billion in 1990. A large increase in the number of human beings
capable of
working and generating wealth. But the new world order arranges this
workforce
within specific geographical and productive areas, and reassigns their
functions (or
non-functions, in the case of unemployed and precarious workers) within
the plan of
world globalisation. The world's economically active population by
sector (EAPS)
has undergone radical changes during the past 20 years. Agriculture
and fishing fell
from 22 % in 1970 to 12 % in 1990; manufacture from 25 % to 22 %; but
the
tertiary sector (commercial, transport, banking and services) has risen
from 42 % to
56 %. In developing countries, the tertiary sector has grown from 40
% in 1970 to
57 % in 1990, while agriculture and fishing have fallen from 30 % to
15 % (2). This
means that increasing numbers of workers are channelled into the kind
of activities
necessary for increasing productivity or speeding up the creation of
commodities

this "modern" capitalist production
continues to rely on child labour. Out of 1.15 billion children in
the world, at least
100 million live on the streets and 200 million work

The globalised
market is destroying small and medium- sized companies. With the disappearance
of
local and regional markets, small and medium producers have no protection
and are
unable to compete with the giant transnationals.

All this combines to create a specific surplus: an excess of human
beings who are
useless in terms of the new world order because they do not produce,
do not
consume, and do not borrow from banks. In short, human beings who are
disposable. Each day the big finance centres impose their laws on countries
and
groups of countries all around the world. They re-arrange and re-order
the
inhabitants of those countries. And at the end of the operation they
find there is still an
"excess" of people.

Piece no. 3: Migration, a nightmare of wandering

there is a proliferation of "regional wars" and "internal
conflicts"; capital follows paths of atypical accumulation; and large
masses of workers
are mobilised. Result: a huge rolling wheel of millions of migrants
moving across the
planet. As "foreigners" in that "world without frontiers" which had
been promised by
the victors of the cold war, they are forced to endure racist persecution,
precarious
employment, the loss of their cultural identity, police repression,
hunger, imprisonment
and murder.

The fourth world war - with its
mechanisms of destruction/depopulation and reconstruction/reorganisation
- involves
the displacement of millions of people. Their destiny is to wander
the world, carrying
the burden of their nightmare with them, so as to constitute a threat
to workers who
have a job, a scapegoat designed to make people forget their bosses,
and to provide
a basis for the racism that neoliberalism provokes.

Piece no. 4: Financial globalisation and the generalisation of crime

With the beginning of the fourth world war, organised crime has globalised
its
activities. The criminal organisations of five continents have taken
on board the "spirit
of world cooperation" and have joined together in order to participate
in the conquest
of new markets. They are investing in legal businesses, not only in
order to launder
dirty money, but in order to acquire capital for illegal operations.
Their preferred
activities are luxury property investment, the leisure industry, the
media - and
banking.

According to a UN report,
the involvement of crime syndicates has been facilitated by the programmes
of
structural adjustment which debtor countries have been forced to accept
in order to
gain access to International Monetary Fund loans (3).
So here we have the rectangular mirror within which legality and illegality
exchange
reflections. On which side of the mirror is the criminal? And on which
side is the
person who pursues him?

Piece no. 5: Legitimate violence of illegitimate powers

In the cabaret of globalisation, the state performs a striptease, at
the end of which it is
left wearing the minimum necessary: its powers of repression. With
its material base
destroyed, its sovereignty and independence abolished, and its political
class
eradicated, the nation state increasingly becomes a mere security apparatus
in the
service of the mega-enterprises which neoliberalism is constructing.
Instead of
orienting public investment towards social spending, it prefers to
improve the
equipment which enables it to control society more effectively.

What is to be done when the violence derives from the laws of the market?
Where is
legitimate violence then? And where the illegitimate?
The monopoly of
violence no longer belongs to nation states: the market has put it
up for auction.

However, when the monopoly of violence is contested not on the basis
of the laws of
the market, but in the interests of "those from below", then world
power sees it as
"aggression". This is one of the (least studied and most condemned)
aspects of the
challenges launched by the indigenous peoples in arms and in rebellion
of the
Zapatista National Liberation Army against neoliberalism and for humanity.

The new world police
wants national armies and police to be simple security bodies guaranteeing
order and progress within the megalopolises of neoliberalism.

Piece no. 6: Megapolitics and its dwarfs

But neoliberalism does not conduct its war
solely by "unifying" nations and regions. Its strategy of destruction/depopulati
on
and
reconstruction/reorganisation also produces a fracture or fractures
within the nation
state. This is the paradox of this fourth world war: while ostensibly
working to
eliminate frontiers and "unite" nations, it actually leads to a multiplication
of frontiers
and the smashing apart of nations.
The elimination of trade
frontiers, the explosion of telecommunications, information superhighways,
the
omnipresence of financial markets, international free trade agreements
- all this
contributes to destroying nation states and internal markets. Paradoxically,
globalisation produces a fragmented world of isolated pieces, a world
full of
watertight compartments which may at best be linked by fragile economic
gangways.

Mega-politics globalises
national politics - in other words it ties them to a centre which has
world interests and
which operates on the logic of the market. It is in the name of the
market that wars,
credits, buying and selling of commodities, diplomatic recognition,
trade blocs,
political support, laws on immigration, breakdowns of relationships
between
countries and investment - in short, the survival of entire nations
- are decided.

The world-wide power of the financial markets is such that they are
not concerned
about the political complexion of the leaders of individual countries:
what counts in
their eyes is a country's respect for the economic programme. Financial
disciplines
are imposed on all alike. These masters of the world can even tolerate
the existence
of left-wing governments, on condition that they adopt no measure likely
to harm the
interests of the market. However, they will never accept policies that
tend to break
with the dominant model.

Piece no. 7: Pockets of resistance

"To begin with, I ask you not to confuse resistance with political
opposition.
Opposition does not oppose itself to power but to a government, and
its fully-formed
shape is that of an opposition party; resistance, on the other hand,
cannot be a party,
by definition: it is not made in order to govern but... to resist."
(TomY s Segovia,
"Alegatorio", Mexico, 1996)

The apparent infallibility of globalisation comes up hard against the
stubborn
disobedience of reality. While neoliberalism is pursuing its war, groups
of protesters,
kernels of rebels, are forming throughout the planet. The empire of
financiers with full
pockets confronts the rebellion of pockets of resistance. es, pockets.
Of all sizes,
of different colours, of varying shapes. Their sole common point is
a desire to resist
the "new world order" and the crime against humanity that is represented
by this
fourth world war.

Whereas the ZNLA fights to defend national sovereignty, the Mexican
Federal Army
functions to protect a government which has destroyed the material
bases of
sovereignty and which has offered the country not only to large-scale
foreign capital,
but also to drug trafficking.

The possible shapes are as numerous as the forms of
resistance themselves, as numerous as all the worlds existing in this
world. So draw
whatever shape you like. In this matter of pockets, as in that of resistance,
diversity is
a wealth.

THE WHITE HOUSE

Office of the Press Secretary
________________________________________________________________________
For Immediate Release                                       May 12,
1998

INTERNATIONAL CRIME CONTROL STRATEG

BACKGROUND

International crime is a serious and potent threat to the American
people at home and abroad.  Drug and firearms trafficking, terrorism,
money laundering, counterfeiting, illegal alien smuggling, trafficking
in women and children, advanced fee scams, credit card fraud, auto
theft, economic espionage, intellectual property theft, computer
hacking, and public corruption are all linked to international criminal
activity and all have a direct impact on the security and prosperity
of
the American people.

Americans spend billions of dollars annually on cocaine and heroin,
all
of which originates abroad; in 1997, there were 123 terrorist attacks
against U.S. targets worldwide, including 108 bombings and eight
kidnappings; each year, approximately one billion dollars worth of
stolen cars are smuggled out of this country; annually, U.S. companies
lose up to $23 billion from the illegal duplication and piracy of films,
compact discs, computer software, pharmaceutical and textile products,
while U.S. credit card companies suffer losses of hundreds of millions
of dollars from international fraud; and several hundred U.S. companies
and other organizations have already suffered computer attacks in 1998,
resulting in millions of dollars of losses and significant threats
to
our safety and security.

PURPOSE

The International Crime Control Strategy (ICCS) addresses this
increasing threat by providing a framework for integrating all facets
of
the federal government response to international crime.  This first
ever
strategy reflects the high priority accorded international crime by
this
Administration and builds on such existing strategies as the National
Drug Control Strategy and the Presidential Directives on alien
smuggling, counter-terrorism and nuclear materials safety and security.

The ICCS is also an important initiative in terms of enhancing the
ability of U.S. law enforcement officials to cooperate effectively
with
their overseas counterparts in investigating and prosecuting
international crime cases.  At the upcoming Birmingham Summit, G-8
leaders will discuss international crime as one of the most pressing
issues related to increasing globalization and rapid technological
and
economic change.  President Clinton will highlight the new ICCS in
underscoring the U.S. commitment to close cooperation with all nations
who are mobilizing to confront this increasing threat.

OVERVIEW

The ICCS is a plan of action containing eight broad goals with thirty
implementing objectives.  The ICCS expresses President Clinton's resolve
to combat international crime aggressively and substantially reduce
its
impact on the daily lives of the American people.

The Strategy's eight goals and related objectives are:

1.   Extend the First Line of Defense Beyond U.S. Borders by
(a) preventing acts of international crime planned abroad before

they occur, (b) using all available laws to prosecute select
criminal acts committed abroad, and (c) intensifying activities
of law enforcement, diplomatic and consular personnel abroad.

2.   Protect U.S. Borders by (a) enhancing our land border inspection,
detection and monitoring capabilities, (b) improving the
effectiveness of maritime and air smuggling interdiction efforts,
(c) seeking new, stiffer criminal penalties for smuggling
activities, and (d) targeting enforcement and prosecutorial
resources more effectively against smuggling crimes and
organizations.

3.   Deny Safe Haven to International Criminals by (a) negotiating
new
international agreements to create a seamless web for the prompt
location, arrest and extradition of international fugitives,
(b) implementing strengthened immigration laws that prevent
international criminals from entering the United States and
provide for their prompt expulsion when appropriate, and
(c) promoting increased cooperation with foreign law enforcement
authorities.

4.   Counter International Financial Crime by (a) combating money
laundering and strengthening enforcement efforts to reduce inbound
and outbound movement of criminal proceeds, (b) seizing the assets
of international criminals, (c) enhancing bilateral and
multilateral cooperation against all financial crime, and
(d) targeting offshore centers of international fraud,
counterfeiting, electronic access device schemes and other
financial crimes.

5.   Prevent Criminal Exploitation of International Trade by (a)
interdicting illegal technology exports, (b) preventing unfair and
predatory trade practices in violation of U.S. criminal law, (c)
protecting intellectual property rights, (d) countering industrial
theft and economic espionage of U.S. trade secrets, and (e)
enforcing import restrictions on certain harmful substances,
dangerous organisms and protected species.

6.   Respond to Emerging International Crime Threats by (a) disrupting
new activities of international organized crime groups,
(b) enhancing intelligence efforts against criminal enterprises,
(c) reducing trafficking in human beings and crimes against
children, (d) increasing enforcement efforts against high tech
and computer-related crime, and (e) continuing to identify and
counter the vulnerabilities of critical infrastructures and new
technologies in high tech areas.

7.   Foster International Cooperation and the Rule of Law by
(a) establishing international standards, goals and objectives to
combat international crime and by actively encouraging compliance,
(b) improving bilateral cooperation with foreign governments and
law enforcement authorities, and (c) strengthening the rule of law
as the foundation for democratic government and free markets in
order to reduce societies' vulnerability to criminal exploitation.

8.   Optimize the Full Range of U.S. Efforts by (a) enhancing executive
branch policy and operational coordination mechanisms to 
the risks of criminal threats and to integrate strategies, goals
and objectives to combat those threats, (b) mobilizing and
incorporating the private sector into U.S. government efforts, and
(c) developing measures of effectiveness to assess progress over
time.

ICCS INITIATIVES

Highlighted below are ten Administration initiatives to further our
efforts to fight international crime.

1.  International Crime Control Act of 1998:  Proposed legislation
containing significant new law enforcement tools for the fight against
international crime.

2.  Comprehensive Threat Assessment:  A comprehensive assessment of
the
threat to the American people posed by international crime, to be
completed within six months.

3.  International Conference on Upholding Integrity Among Justice and
Security Officials:  An international conference to address upholding
integrity among key justice and security officials worldwide, to be
organized by the Vice President within the next six months.

4.  High Tech Crime:  An action plan, building on the work of the G
8
justice and interior ministers and the creation of the U.S. National
Infrastructure Protection Center, to protect interconnected U.S.
communications and information systems from attack by international
criminals.

5.  Border Law Enforcement:  A program to enhance border law enforcement
through deployment of advanced detection technology and investment
of
new resources.

6.  Financial Crimes:  A commitment to employ aggressively new tools
to
deny criminals access to U.S. financial institutions and to enhance
enforcement efforts against financial crimes.

7.  International Asset Forfeiture and Sharing:  A U.S. call for new
criminal asset forfeiture regimes worldwide and new asset forfeiture
sharing agreements with our international partners.

8.  OAS Treaty Against Illicit Trafficking in Firearms:  A program
to
work with our OAS partners to implement fully a hemispheric convention
to combat the illicit manufacturing of and trafficking in firearms,
ammunition and explosives.

9.  Economic Espionage and Theft of Industrial Property:  A commitment
to use the Economic Espionage Act to increase U.S. investigations and
prosecutions of individuals and companies who attempt to steal U.S.
proprietary information.

10.  Strategic Communications Plan:  A plan to engage the private
sector in assessing the impact of international crime on that sector
and in determining its appropriate role in countering this threat.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Cory 
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 01:11:23 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Stego program for jpg or wav? (dos/win)
Message-ID: <19980727080953.16123.rocketmail@send1e.yahoomail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I'm looking for a steganogrophy program for dos/win that 
supports wav and one that supports jpg files. Any help?

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: loanuorao22@msn.com
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 16:21:57 -0700 (PDT)
To: loanuorao22@msn.com
Subject: NEED TO KNOW HIS OR HER BACKGROUND
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Jean-Francois Avon" 
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 23:09:10 -0700 (PDT)
To: "e$@vmeng.com" , "Cypherpunks" 
Subject: short comment from Adleman on DNA computing, DES and RSA
Message-ID: <199807270624.CAA29170@cti06.citenet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hi Cypherpunks and e$-ers.

After having read Adleman's Sci Am article, I couldn't help but ask him...  :-)

The following message is re-posted with his permission

Ciao

jfa


==================BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE==================
From: Len Adleman 
To: Jean-Francois Avon 
Subject: Re: Your article in Scientific American and RSA

Thank you for the kind words regarding the Sci Am article. I have thought about
using DNA for breaking cryptosystems. It does appear convievable that a code like
DES could be broken. However, because RSA can simply increase the size of keys to
overcome whatever computing power DNA provides, I do not think it represents a
threat to RSA.

We of course have a long way to go to see whether we can actually get DNA to live
up to its potential.

If you are unfamiliar with quantum computation I think you might enjoy reading
about it - it, at least in theory, could represent a threat to RSA. I believe that
you can find info on the www.
-Len

Jean-Francois Avon wrote:

> Greetings.
>
> Your article in SciAm blew my mind!
>
> I bought the magazine after having seen it because of my interest/inquietude
> of new computing ways that could break RSA (and similar public key) encryption
> schemes.
>
> The most fantastic thing is that I bought the magazine after having browsed
> the article but without even having read who was the author of the article!
> [laughs]
>
> Now, here is my question, which you *surely* figured out: can a method could
> be devised (using DNA computing) that would decrease the security of RSA?  And
> if yes, what would it imperil ( keys, individual cyphertext, etc?)
>
> I could not see a trivial way of effecting multiplication and division, but
> then, maths have never been my forte... ;-)
>
> Any comments?
>
> Highest regards
>
> jfa
===================END FORWARDED MESSAGE===================



Jean-Francois Avon, B.Sc. Physics, Montreal, Canada
  DePompadour, Société d'Importation Ltée
     Limoges fine porcelain and french crystal
  JFA Technologies, R&D physicists & engineers
     Instrumentation & control, LabView programming
PGP keys: http://bs.mit.edu:8001/pks-toplev.html
PGP ID:C58ADD0D:529645E8205A8A5E F87CC86FAEFEF891
PGP ID:5B51964D:152ACCBCD4A481B0 254011193237822C






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: kimh_26@hotmail.com
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 09:41:54 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: Oxygen
Message-ID: <199807271641.JAA21978@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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      Guaranteed
  CALL 1-800-600-0343 ext,1669 leave message.
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC 
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 08:07:16 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Quaint Customs Warning - SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS!!!
Message-ID: <009C9CBE.41EC8040.19@west.cscwc.pima.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Canadian Customs Warning - SPACE ALIENS HIDE M DRUGS!!!
________________________________________________________

  Although the Reptilian Nazis making preparations in the lavoratories
of their SecretUnderGroundBunkers pose an eventual threat to the safety
and security of humanity itself, there are many more immediate dangers
present in our lives which can bring serious consequences to anyone who
remains unaware of them.
  Thus, I feel that it is important for everyday, average citizens to
issue travel warnings for those who may be thinking in venturing into
some of the more corrupt areas of the world, such as Canada, where they
may find themselved subject to arbitrary and capricious actions by the
heavy-handed Canadian Customs BorderGuards before even being allowed to
enter the country, after which they will be subject to whatever illegal
acts and measures that the Royal Canadian Mounted Police choose to 
perpetrate upon them.

  It is particularly important to be wary of entering through certain
Customs ports, such as Regway, Saskatchewan, which have a long history
of abuse of authority and criminal malefeasance.
  Bill Mitchell, a Canadian Customs OffalSlur at the Regway port, has
been known to steal thousands of dollars worth of goods from those passing
through while he is on duty, while being extremely evasive when asked
about the legality of his conduct, as well as being very inept at hiding
the fact that he is a lying, scumbag piece of shit who is not intelligent
enough to tell even halfway believable lies.

  Although I normally advise people to make what effort they can to get
whatever measure of Justice they can through normal legal channels, in
the case of countries such as Canada, where even high-ranking political
figures are known to be corrupt, where many of the Judges have histories
of corruption, substance abuse and complicity in the illegal activities
of law enforcement officials, I certainly could not find fault with 
anyone who surveyed the situation they found themselves in and decided
that their best option was to used armed force to prevent becoming a
victim of the oppressive, unethical and illegal actions of armed bandits
working under the cover of Canadian Government Authority.
  As well, although one might morally and ethically be perfectly justified
in putting a bullet through the brain of armed Canadian Government Bandits
who have been trained to deal violently with any person who resists their
attempts at enforcing their alleged authority, even when doing so in an
unethical and illegal manner, it would be unwise for them to act hastily,
since one must be prepared to follow through in regard to such an action,
by also eliminating any other government agents who may be present and
would constitute an immediate or future threat to the individual who
refuses to be subjected to illegal and unethical government actions.

  Although I suppose that one might make a case for being 'better safe
than sorry' when entering Canada through a port such as Regway, and just
going ahead and whacking out the whole lot of them, so that they don't
have a chance to get the jump on you, before proceeding into the country,
I personally think that if one has prepared in advance for dealing with
the danger that the Regway Customs OffalSlurs represent, then this option
should not be necessary.
  Of course, I realize that I, myself, am a rather conservative person,
so I would certainly not pass judgement on those who are more of a
'take the BullShit by the horns' type of individual.

  Being, as I say, rather conservative by nature, I don't usually feel
it necessary to immediately put to death violent armed Canadian Government
Thugs for their crimes against myself or other citizens, even though doing
so might well help to prevent future criminal abuses by violent, armed 
people in positions of authority, since there area variety of other routes
that one might take in extracting a measure of Justice or EqualizationOf
TheAnalSexualBalanceOfTheTao.

  As always, anyone who chooses to attempt to receive redress for the
crimes committed against them by those in authoritative government 
positions will be fighting a battle in which the Canadian Justice System
is stacked against them. Even though Judge Lee, a notorious drunkard who
has performed GodOnlyKnows how many travesties of justice while rendering
legal judgements while totally ShitFaced, has retired, many of the other
Canadian judges, while perhaps not being as totally out-of-control, are
nonetheless known to rubber-stamp pretty much every instance of criminal]
abuse perpetrated on the citizenry, as a matter of course.
  Likewise, the Saskatchewan Justice Department is well-known by the 
citizens to be a FuckingJoke (TM), and that any person who dares to
file a complaint against members of the Canadian Legal Community can
expect to be subjected to ridicule and abuse by Justice Department
Investigators, as well as perhaps finding themselves the target of
further persecution by those being WhiteWashed by their Justice Department
BumBuddies.

  Realizing that any citizen who shot and killed an armed intruder in his
home who was attempting to rob HimOrHer of thousands of dollars worth of
personal propery would likely be regarded as a hero, while a citizen who
shot and killed an ArmedCanadianGovernmentThug who was doing the same, 
would be the immediate subject of villification by all arms of Canadian
Opinon/Reality Creating Agencies, my own preference is to set a goal of
returning (1,000)Tit-for-(1)Tat.
  Being, as I say, a pretty conservative fellow, I have refrained, for
the most part, over the years, from extracting a large measure of revenge
or retribution for the unethical and illegal TravestiesOfJustice that I
have been subjected to by various CanadianAuthorities. Having gone to 
great lengths to act with reason and civility in the face of oppression
and persecution for quite some length of time, and at considerable 
personal expense to both my finances and my psyche, I can see no reason
to have any qualms of conscience in regard to henceforth requiring 
AThousandEyesForAnEye (TM) as a BalanceOfPayments for acts of thievery
and illegality against my person by ArmedCanadianGovernmentThugs.

  Naturally, if anyone feels that they can offer good, solid advice in
regard to why it might be more ethical or justified for me to just keep
on TakingItInTheAssTimeAndTimeAgain without complaint or retribution,
then I would be more than happy to forward them some advice I received
from S.M. Halloran, who works as a Biochemical Researcher at a Spooky
Drug Laboratory in AssassAnkara, Turkey:
    _________________________________________________________________
     * To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
     * From: "S. M. Halloran" 
     * Organization: User RFC 822- and 1123-compliant
     _________________________________________________________________
   
ou are a lunatic.  No question about it.

Can you possibly make an appointment with your doctor and make sure your
lithium dose is not greater than it ought to be?
Mitch Halloran
Research (Bio)chemist
Duzen Laboratories Group
AssassAnkara   TURKE mitch@duzen.com.tr
    _________________________________________________________________
  

  I have been following, with great mirth, a current thread on the CPUNX
list which expresses great concern over the possible implications to the
issues of freedom and privacy by the plans of the Russian Government
and/or Military implimenting a StateOfTheArt Monitoring/Surveillance
System designed to make BigWolfInBigGrandmothersClothing's ears very, 
very large indeed. 
[WAS: "The better to hear EveryOneAndEveryThing with."]

  I find it interesting that there should be such great concern over the
possibility of EvilThings happening in Russia that are already happening
in AmeriKaKa, when few Citizens or NetIzens in this country seem to be
inclined to actually *do* anything in regard to making an effort to hold
accountable those involved in the unethical and criminal persecution of 
our own DigitalPrisonersOfWar behind Amerika's ElectroMagnetic Curtain.
  What reason is their to be 'concerned' about matters that one is going
to submissively submit to like a LemmingLamb waiting to rush over the
cliff and into the BigMouthBigTeeth of BigBrother?


  James Dalton Bell got RailRoaded, ScrewedBluedAndTattoo'd, SetUp, Fucked
Over, and SoldDownTheFuckingRiver for the diabolical crime of openly
discussing the same types of concepts and issues that our Founding Fathers
wrote about (although they were taking their medication regularly and had
the good sense to publish much of their work via anonymous reprinters).

  ALunaticWhoLooksALotLikeMe got HisorHer computers, and those of family
members, confiscated, HisOrHer Sympatico WebSite deleted, and subjected
to the threat of years of imprisonment, as a result of putting up an
'RCMP HATE PAGE' parody dedicated the belief that making fun of Dudley
DoRight's abuse, persecution and murder of human beings of Native American
ancestry was less of a crime than the actual performance of those types
of criminal misdeeds.

  Unless one is prepared to actually take action to prevent the abuse of
authority, and to hold those responsible for high-handed, unethical and
illegal actions against the Citizens, then the process of 'discussion'
on these issues is mere Philosophical Masturbation.
  
The rEvolution is NOW!
All that really needs to be said, is "BOOM!"

NEWS FLASH!!!
If, after someone ButtFucks you, you give them a really great BlowJob,
they don't have a whole lot of incentive not to do it again.
If the CriminalFuckers are incapable of understanding that "NO Means NO"
then perhaps they are capable of understanding that "BOOM Means NO."


  The willingness of WeTheSheeple to submissivly submit to the atrocious
lies, abuses, criminal and unethical behavior of the Rulers&Contollers
can be explained, to my mind, by nothing other than BrainWashing.
  The Truth (TM) of the matter is, the ThugsAndThieves who are in control
of this and other countries, are, for the most part, GutLessCowards who
are capable of maintaining their intrusive and excessive hold over the
lives of the citizenry only by virtue of OrganizedMobRuleOfForce over
a ComplacentCitizenry.
  Upon losing the support system of OfficiallyAuthorizedOrganizedCrime,
most of these GutLessCowards fold like a BustedFlush. On the extremely
rare occassions where the GutLessCowards are called to account for their
criminal behavior and abuse of power, They turn in mass fear on one
another, until they have spilled enough of each other's blood, and hacked
off enough internal heads, that the citizens are appeased.

  et the MindsOfTheMasses have become so controlled by the PuppetMasters
that, after brief displays of sanity and integrity, they again accept the
dichotomic exhortations of the LeftOverLiars&Thieves that everything is 
now "Different/BackToNormal."

  "We stopped destroying the minds of unwitting victims of our criminal
mind-control experiments esterDay (TM). The IRS is going to cease
engaging in high-handed, unethical abuse of the citizens Tomorrow (TM)."

The Reason The Government Is Incapable of Dealing With The Present:
"The rEvolution is NOW!"

  "The President you elected has been murdered, but you will not be 
allowed to know why, or by whom. That is TopSecret information that
can only be accessed by those who may have been involved in his murder."

  "We don't have the time or resources to bring to Justice all of the
important and politically connected people who became grotesquely rich
while illegally draining BillionsOfDollars from the Savings and Loan
system, but we *do* have the time and resources to imprison millions
of DarkSkinnedAmericans (and a few LightSkinnedAmericans) for willingly
ingesting pharmecutical substances which our own agents illegally put
into the bodies of *unwilling* people, without a single one of them
being subject to criminal proceedings, even when their actions caused
the death of their unwitting victims."

  "es, we Fucked Jim Bell Silly! So the fuck what?
  "We got away with it, didn't we? So you can bet your sweet ass that
we're going to do it again, and again, at any time we please, and to 
whoever we please.
  "If you DumbSchmucks want to sit by placidly while we pick you off
OneAtATime, then it doesn't really matter that we're GutLessCowardlyFucks,
does it?"









From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Angie Elder 
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 10:28:12 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: MORE
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980727102706.00912150@dylan.luminous.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


More




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 11:05:09 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: encrypted FM radio hiss
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980727110437.007b8100@m7.sprynet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On the subject of RNGs.  Thinking about conditioning.
	
Suppose you have a "poor" random number stream, e.g., FM hiss digitized at
say 8 Ksamples/sec.  Can you get a crypto-secure random-number stream by
"whitening" the stream with a good block cipher?

This scheme uses the RNG to "kick" the cipher out of the deterministic
cycle its in, which is determined by the cipher key and initialialization
vector.

Poor RNG ----> XOR ----> BlockCipher ----> improved RNG?
                 ^                    |
                 |____________________|

The output of a good block cipher in feedback mode will pass Diehard tests,
though it is not crypto-secure.

>From an information theoretic perspective, in the above scheme, you are
slowly adding entropy to the output stream, at a rate determined by the
actual number of bits/iteration and the bits/symbol of your poor random
numbers.

If you fed 64 bits of pure random values into a 64 bit cipher you would have
a true RNG, filtered by the xor/ciphering, but still crypto-secure.  With
fewer true bits, you have a 'smooth' way to introduce variable amounts of
true entropy.
If your RNG is 'stuck at' a constant value you are back to a deterministic
PRNG.

How do you cryptanalze the mix of a keyed PRNG and a true entropy source here?

Is there any mathematical literature on this?

Thanks



honig@alum.mit.edu

   "Speech is not protected simply because it is written in a language"	
	Federal Misjudge Gwin on the Bernstein Case









From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC 
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 11:25:18 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: MItSchill Millhouse Holler'in
Message-ID: <009C9CD9.EB1F5DC0.23@west.cscwc.pima.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Mitch Halloran, unwitting schill of the TrilateralCPU, digitized:
 
> I neglected to take into consideration that this attempt at 
> revisionist history of the greatest President of the US in the 
> 20th Century, perhaps in US history...this raving and ranting 
> to take the name of FDR in vain...this dribble to take all of 
> humanity's name in vain...this project to develop the Mother 
> of All Conspiracy Theories, including figuring out a way to 
> show the Big Bang is/was, all of it, every last bit, a 
> conspiracy...
 
> ...well, it could be ciphertext for which I have not received 
> the key for making into plaintext.  Someone please forward the 
> key to me.
 
  Working in a Drug Lab, I would imagine that the key required
to make sense of SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS!!! is easily within
reach...check the 500 ml beaker to your immediate left...
 
  To tell the truth, most of my ranting and raving in regard
to the InfernalTruths EreuIndicted in SAHMD is done out of
kindness towards those who are the target of both my BarbLess
Wit and my WitLess Barbs, since merely revealing the NakedTruth
about many of these individuals might result in the Reader 
having an eye put out, although HeOrShe would still have one
good eye left to see that the person who was giving rise to 
the BluntNosed Sword of Truth was not the individual's wife.
 
  ReVisionIst, to me, indicates someone who takes another look
at what was previously seen with the aid of colour-glossy photos
and pie-charts provided by the people who threatened to imprison
your parents if they failed to send you to government-sponsered
IndoctrinationCamps justified under the ruse of FreeEducation,
which sometimes seem mostly geared for reinforcing in our minds
how lucky we are to live in a country where the government is
kind enough to provide us with FreeIncomeTaxReturnForms.
 
  Son of Mother Of All Chapters, as presented to the CypherPunks
list, quite simply provides a plethora of Official Versions of
the events surrounding the murder of one of Franklin Roosevelt's
political enemies, Anton Cermak.
  Those perusing the material may come to the conclusion that
if a wide variety of official news sources and official law
enforcement agencies don't seem to have a fucking clue as to
the time, date or sequence of events surrounding the murder,
the death of Cermak, the trial or the execution, then perhaps
one would be remiss in too hasty in accepting the same people's
conclusions that Roosevelt, and not Cermak, was the target, it
would be hard to fault their logic.
 
  As far as Roosevelt, or anyone else, being "the greatest
President" of any era, it would be more accurate to describe
their being the GreatestBullShitter of the era, or of having
the GreatestAdvertising/SpinDoctor/PoliticalThugs of the era.
 
  It is a matter of speculation to what extent Roosevelt's 
actions were responsible for the recovery of the American
economy after the collapse of the banking sector, but it is 
a matter of *fact*, supported by the testimony of even those
who were part of FDR's political entourage, that Roosevelt
took steps to ensure the *complete* collapse of America's
financial institutions while Hoover was still President,
in order to put himself in a position to extort as much
money and power as possible out of Congress. 
  Perhaps the massive suffering and financial losses that
he caused in his power-grab might be justified as being
'for the greater good,' except that, had he used his position
as President-elect to help restore confidence in the economy,
instead of destroying it, America would not have required
nearly as much 'saving' as it subsequently needed.
 
  It is a shame that I had not been born in an age when I
could have run for President against Roosevelt, and won.
  Had I done so, then I, like FDR, would have granted 
myself a license to print money, and I also would have
spent three times as much of the taxpayer's money as the
previous 31 Presidents, combined, but *I* would have spent
it all on beer and scotch, thus resurrecting the American
economy without creating a HugeGovernmentMonster filled
with political patronage appointees and employees who I
had bought and owned with imaginary money that taxpayers
would be responsible for repaying.
  Also, being drunk all of the time, there would have been
little chance of me turning America into a PlannedSociety
via a New Deal in which all of the cards being dealt were 
Red.
 
> By the way, I'm really one of you guys.  I am just working a 
> cover among the people who call themselves sane until you guys 
> who really know the truth can get into a position reveal these 
> eternal truths to the unbelievers.  he-he!
 
  We appreciate your efforts. Due to the limited space in
the HomeForTheCriminallyInsane, it is important for us to
have half-witting schills secretly infiltrating organizations
which are too ignorant of Truth&Reality (TM) to realize that
the NewCrayolaColours are part of the WorldWide Plot, even
when spelled without the 'u.'
 
~
ICould'aBeenAContend'aMonger
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: goorio82@msn.com (ld)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 08:35:49 -0700 (PDT)
To: goorio82@msn.com
Subject: 7.8 cents/min. Long Distance & 800
Message-ID: <199807272529NAA22376@post.qc.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Act now! 10 cents per minute IS NOT good enough anymore.

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and Cellular Long Distance, and ONLY .012Min for Call Card.

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go to:

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******************************************





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "S. M. Halloran" 
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 01:56:32 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: The Plot
In-Reply-To: <009C9C13.3FFFC220.15@west.cscwc.pima.edu>
Message-ID: <199807270750.KAA15929@ankara.192.168.3.5>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


> 
> 
> 2. Presidents and other political figures seem to die at
>   particular junctures of time wherein they have already
>   served their purpose to the Controllers. (Note: 'die'
>   either physically or politically.
>     i.e. - FDR croaking shortly after getting Truman
>     elected as the hand-picked replacement of shadowy
>     figures.
> 
> 3. Ronald Reagan and FDR were both 'front men' for their
>   wives, and/or those in their wives shadowy background.
>     FDR, through the efforts of Elanor and her cohorts,
>    was paid A QUARTER OF A MILLION DOLLARS in order to
>    enter the New ork governor's race.

If Linda finds out that you have hacked her mail account and are using it 
as a platform in which to be bizarre beyond belief, she just might have 
the wherewithal to track you down to the ends of the earth and give us all 
cause to believe your demise is yet another conspiracy among those you 
have already listed. :)


Mitch Halloran
Research (Bio)chemist
Duzen Laboratories Group
Ankara   TURKEY
mitch@duzen.com.tr

Happiness is an activity of the soul in accordance with perfect virtue
--from one translation of Aristotle's Nichomachean Ethics





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: CTIA Daily News 
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 10:22:55 -0700 (PDT)
To: CTIA Daily News 
Subject: CTIA Daily News from WOW-COM - July 27, 1998
Message-ID: <199807271659.LAA17200@mailstrom.revnet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




==========================================
Welcome to today's edition of the CTIA Daily News
from WOW-COM.  Please click on the icon / attachment
for the most important news in wireless communications today.

A new multi-billion dollar industry is here! 
Be at CTIA's WIRELESS I.T. '98
where personal computing and communications converge!

Don't Miss Your Chance -- October 12-14, 1998
Bally's Las Vegas, Las Vegas, NV

For more information, visit http://www.wirelessit.com 
===========================================
 






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Bernardo B. Terrado" 
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 21:13:48 -0700 (PDT)
To: Bob Cummings <0_rcummi@funrsc.fairfield.edu>
Subject: enc....
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Is it cheaper to install an encryption software
than an encryption hardware?

Will encryption reduce the speed of my pc?

A virus uses encryption to hide itself (correct?),
but will the files in a pc be safe from virus when encrypted? why?

(Correct me if I'm wrong) It is easier to crack (let us say) a 56 bit
technique than a 64 bit
(correct ?).
===============================================================================
You give the words  you have spoken,
   it is not lended and are not taken back.
It is like what The Corrs sung "...your forgiven not forgotten...."

bbt@mudspring.uplb.edu.ph
bbt@peak-two.uplb.edu.ph
metaphone@altavista.net





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: mgraffam@mhv.net
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 09:29:27 -0700 (PDT)
To: kryz 
Subject: Re: Fw: my thoughts for this list
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Sun, 26 Jul 1998, kryz wrote:

> I guess you mean PGP?
> Just have patience... maybe a little prayer will help.

And the other guy said ..
> > I have been getting this list for a few days. I subscribed to this list in
> > the hopes I could learn something about crypto, in particular the GPG
> > project.


GPG = GNU Privacy Guard.

GPG is a PGP work-a-like .. doesn't support RSA (yet) due to the patents,
but once they run out, GPG will use it. I think it uses Blowfish (and
CAST?) for the symmetric algorithms, and probably 3DES too. I dunno
about IDEA .. I have my doubts due to the patents. 


Michael J. Graffam (mgraffam@mhv.net)
http://www.mhv.net/~mgraffam -- Philosophy, Religion, Computers, Crypto, etc
"..the isle is full of noises, sounds and sweet airs that give delight and
hurt not. Sometimes a thousand twangling instruments will hum about mine
ears, and sometimes voices.." Caliban, Shakespeare's "The Tempest"





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Nina Huupponen 
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 04:35:27 -0700 (PDT)
To: F-Secure-Press-Global@DataFellows.com
Subject: Data Fellows Announces F-Secure Workstation Suite 3.0
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980727124728.009eac60@smtp.datafellows.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


For immediate release
27 July 1998

DATA FELLOWS ANNOUNCES F-SECURE WORKSTATION SUITE 3.0

The World's First Suite Product with Strong Encryption Provides
Corporations with a Complete Security Solution 

HELSINKI, FINLAND, July 27, 1998  -- Data Fellows, a leading developer of
data security solutions, today announced F-Secure Workstation Suite. The
product provides a reliable and easy-to-manage solution for most data
security concerns of modern corporations. 

"F-Secure Workstation Suite provides centralized management of most
corporate security aspects," says Mr. Risto Siilasmaa, Chief Executive
Officer of Data Fellows. "It combines world-class protection against
malicious code with unobtrusive file and network encryption. F-Secure
Workstation Suite is easily integrated into the enterprise's management
system. The Suite is also totally unobtrusive for the corporate end-users."

F-Secure Workstation Suite is the only product to combine world-class 
anti-virus protection with strong encryption for network traffic and files
stored on the hard disk. Competing offerings from Network Associates and
Symantec are not available world-wide with strong encryption. They also
lack the centralized policy based management features announced for
F-Secure Workstation Suite 4.0.

Unparalleled Virus Protection

The components of F-Secure Workstation Suite utilize the absolute latest
technology in the field. Malicious code detection and removal is based on
the F-Secure Anti-Virus product line, the first anti-virus in the world to
use multiple scanning engines simultaneously through its revolutionary
CounterSign architecture. Its detection rates are unparalleled, and
automated updates to the whole network further enhance its reliability.

Real-Time File Encryption and IPsec-Based Network Encryption

F-Secure Workstation Suite is the only suite product currently available to
offer strong encryption all over the world. The product uses an encryption
key length of 128 bits or more. The administrator can choose from supported
algorithms, including RSA, 3DES and Blowfish. All the most widely used
authentication methods are supported.

Should the authorized user forget his/her password, the product also
contains a safe and easy administrative key retrieval function.

"The file encryption component of F-Secure Workstation Suite provides
real-time protection for confidential data. F-Secure FileCrypto
automatically encrypts all open and temporary files. Not only is encryption
completely unobtrusive to the end-user, but it is also extremely secure:
there is no way the user can accidentally store confidential information in
plain text," explains Mr. Siilasmaa.

F-Secure Workstation Suite's network encryption, F-Secure VPN+, is based on
the latest IPsec standards. The F-Secure VPN+ is fully scalable: it
contains three components (Client, Server and Gateway) which can be
combined to build all major types of virtual private networks. These
include connections between organizations and their partners, home offices,
or employees on the road. F-Secure VPN+ is also fully transparent to the
end-user, as it uses IP protocol at the network level, which is invisible
at the application level. The 
F-Secure Workstation Suite product contains the client component of 
F-Secure VPN+. The Server and Gateway components are available separately.

Availability

The first version of F-Secure Workstation Suite will operate in the
Microsoft Windows NT environment. The product will be available from the
Data Fellows resellers around the world in August 1998. Prices will start
from $68 per seat for a 100-user license. 

The 4.0 version will be available in early fourth quarter 1998. This
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or visit our web site at http://www.DataFellows.com/




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Jean-Francois Avon" 
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 10:01:03 -0700 (PDT)
To: "Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC" 
Subject: Re: Quaint Customs Warning - SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS!!!
Message-ID: <199807271716.NAA07974@cti06.citenet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Mon, 27 Jul 1998 08:08:53 MST, Linda Reed--PCC West Campus CSC wrote:

>Canadian Customs Warning - SPACE ALIENS HIDE MDRUGS!!!
>________________________________________________________

>
>  It is particularly important to be wary of entering through certain
>Customs ports, such as Regway, Saskatchewan, which have a long history
>of abuse of authority and criminal malefeasance.

>  Bill Mitchell, a Canadian Customs OffalSlur at the Regway port, has
>been known to steal thousands of dollars worth of goods from those passing
>through while he is on duty, while being extremely evasive when asked
>about the legality of his conduct, as well as being very inept at hiding
>the fact that he is a lying, scumbag piece of shit who is not intelligent
>enough to tell even halfway believable lies.

Linda, here is a tidbit of information that you might get interested in...

The National Firearms Association has several times put a leash and curbed thoses rabbid dogs.  They procure you with ample legal information; just to point out to any govt bully how, per the letter of the law, they are committing a criminal act and how they could get charged.  THe thing is, if somebody comes from the states, it is unlikely that a) he/she will know Kanadian law and b) she/he will lay criminal charges.  The pertaining Kanadian laws should be widespread in the USA and maybe a cross-border entity could exist to promote the proper conduct of govt bully?

In any case, I suggest you ask the NFA about the whole thing of goods confiscation and criminal charges at the border.  Recently, there was a US citizen that entered Kanada with a handgun in his toolbox in his car trunk.  Oh, what a mess.  Here in Kanada, where the good Liberal dictators are convinced that Man is an intrinsically rabbid animal that will kill as soon as he has the means to layed criminal charges and seized this poor US chap cars and belongings and put him in the klink for a while.  Of course, in the US, a handgun could legitimately be carried in your toolbox and it is normal not to think of it as a *big thing* (tm), so it is legitimate to not think of it at the moment of border crossing.  Anyways, that's it, what happenend happened.  The NFA, I think, is working on it.

My telling of the story is subject to all sort of distortions and should not be considered reliable...  :-)  Contact the NFA and the Canadian Firearms Digest home page for more details...

Canadian Firearms Digest:  http://www.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca/
Dave Tomlinson: e-mail: nfadat@telusplanet.net
NFA Calgary e-mail: nfa_calgary@iname.com
Web site: http://nfa.ca/ 

Ciao

jfa








Jean-Francois Avon, Pierrefonds (Montreal), Canada

Unregistered Firearms in the hands of honest citizens: Liberty's Teeth
Strong Cryptographic tools in the hands of honest citizens: Liberty's Voice

He who beats his sword into a ploughshare will get coerced to plow for 
those who don't...

PGP keys: http://bs.mit.edu:8001/pks-toplev.html
PGP ID:C58ADD0D:529645E8205A8A5E F87CC86FAEFEF891 
PGP ID:5B51964D:152ACCBCD4A481B0 254011193237822C


From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED/EUREKA! 
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 08:54:31 -0700 (PDT)
To: All Eureka/Stuffed Subscribers: ;
Subject: Bitch Spice/Miss Vagina 1998
Message-ID: <19980727132322.14543.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Welcome to  today's  issue of Stuffed. To read it you should
click on the URL below.  If it is not made clickable by your
email program  you will need to  use your mouse to highlight
the line,  copy it and then paste it into your browser (then
press Return).

http://stuffed.net/98/7/27/

If you  have an email program that can display web pages you
will find today's front cover should have already been disp-
layed and can be clicked on to take you straight to Stuffed.

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Kent Crispin 
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 14:13:12 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: John Gilmore and the Great Internet Snake Drive
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980720114859.009997f0@dave.bbn.com>
Message-ID: <19980727141055.63396@songbird.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Wed, Jul 22, 1998 at 06:18:30AM -0700, John Gilmore wrote:
> > One lesson I plan to observe - don't encrypt known plaintext unless you
> > have to !
> 
> The EFF DES Cracker cracks more than just known plaintext (though it's
> the easy case).

It occurs to me that an interesting use for the eff des cracker would
be the following: since the government asserts that DES is safe, then
a DES encrypted archive of crypto code should be exportable.  So the
next time someone feels the need to export something that is currently
not exportable, simply encrypt it, along with some plaintext, with
DES, trash the key, export it, and send the plaintext and the
encrypted plaintext to the EFF...

This is not a practical use, but it would make an interesting test 
case in court.

-- 
Kent Crispin, PAB Chair			"No reason to get excited",
kent@songbird.com			the thief he kindly spoke...
PGP fingerprint:   B1 8B 72 ED 55 21 5E 44  61 F4 58 0F 72 10 65 55
http://songbird.com/kent/pgp_key.html




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Your Yashy" 
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 11:35:30 -0700 (PDT)
To: PM-WIN@UA1VM.UA.EDU
Subject: Spam Help
Message-ID: <199807271834.OAA16760@deathstar.comnet.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




  I was wondering if I could get some help setting up a filter. I'd 
liketo create a folder called "SPAM". Then all email that are in the 
spam folder, I would like forwarded to abuse@  that it 
was sent from. I'm using Pegasus Email 3.01b
thnx in advance.


"I, of course, deny I called judge Santiago Campos a FASCIST PIG"
-bill payne June 19, 1998








HTTP://www.comnet.ca/~yashy
100 YashDollars to first person to try every link.
(including links derived from links)
p.s. SPAM PROOF Email address. Remove the "*" to reply.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 06:16:10 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199807271316.PAA14820@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Has anyone consider the possibility that the dude who
shot his way into the Capitol did so as a result of
his mental infirmities being _healed_ by DC water?

Has any family member been quoted as saying,
"Thank God! He's finally come to his senses."

JustWonderingMonger





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: HyperReal-Anon 
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 09:52:44 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: anonymicer is not trustworthy
Message-ID: <19980727165008.4317.qmail@serek.arch.pwr.wroc.pl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


http://anonymicer.home.ml.org/news
is not trustworthy.
none of the service.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ftwi@ftwioffice.com
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 21:04:15 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: 1,500,000 EMAIL ADDRESSES - $15 !!!!
Message-ID: <199807280404.VAA06974@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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$150,000!!!  Money making plans, reports, lists, jewelry, art, etc. Whatever 
you wish to sell!  People are making millions of dollars right now by doing 
the same thing! That is why you get so much email from people selling you 
their product....it works! These 1.5 Million email addresses are yours to 
keep, so you can use them over and over and they can be downloaded right from 
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If you do not have a program capable of sending bulk email, don't worry! We 
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Send addresses via (circle one):
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Send your order and payment to: 
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: vicki28@uswest.com
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 17:32:11 -0700 (PDT)
To: marvin@uswest.com
Subject: IN DEBT WE CAN HELP YOU!!!
Message-ID: <199807272323.SAA15776@charon.vitalimages.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Subject: Re:  Are you in debt?


           If you are then we can help. Qualifying is now at your
fingertips and there are no long distance calls to make or travel
plans to arrange.

FREE loan evaluation:http://www.amesconsultants.com/ins/127.html


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           Put us to the test... I know we can Help You.
Kindest Regards.




























From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jack Oswald / CEO / RPK Security Inc 
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 18:35:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Announcement: RPK Encryptonite Software Toolkit Version 3.0
Message-ID: <199807280128.SAA11164@proxy4.ba.best.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


You have received this message because at some time in the past your name was submitted to our e-mail mailing list database.  If you do not wish (or no longer wish) to receive announcements, updates and news concerning the RPK Encryptonite Engine or the RPK InvisiMail e-mail security products, please forward this message to remove@rpkusa.com

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

CONTACT
Paula Miller							Lyn Oswald
Nadel Phelan, Inc.						RPK Security, Inc.
408-439-5570 x277							212-488-9891
paulam@nadelphelan.com						lynoswald@rpkusa.com

RPK SECURITY ANNOUNCES "ENCRYPTONITE(tm)": THE POWERFUL PUBLIC KEY ENCRYPTION TOOLKIT

The RPK Encryptonite(tm) Software Toolkit Version 3.0 Allows Developers to Easily Add Strong Security to Internet, Software, Hardware and Communications Applications

SAN FRANCISCO, CA. July 27, 1998 - RPK Security, Inc., announced today the release of its RPK Encryptonite Software Toolkit version 3.0.  Now with C++ implementations and  a Delphi VCL component, the RPK Toolkit provides integrators, developers and engineers with everything they need to quickly and easily incorporate fast public key encryption and strong security into their applications without extensive knowledge of cryptography.  RPK Security is a technology leader in strong and fast public key encryption for software, hardware and Internet applications. With development and distribution facilities outside of the U.S., RPK Security is able to provide its customers with a worldwide strong security solution that is available globally unlike competing products that are restricted by U.S. export regulations.
	The RPK Toolkit, a software implementation of the RPK Encryptonite Engine, allows developers to build custom applications with embedded strong encryption for information sensitive applications and industries such as the Internet, communications, legal, health care and financial services. The Toolkit provides a dramatic 40 percent improvement in engine initialization (compared with V2.1), which results in remarkably better application response times. In addition, the Toolkit will include in future releases a new "packet encryption" technique which is well suited for broadcast and multi-cast applications, especially on the Internet.
	 The RPK Toolkit is easy to use and manage, making it an attractive and readily accessible solution for developers of new applications. The RPK Toolkit includes sample applications, complete source code and comprehensive documentation. The core technology of the RPK Toolkit leverages the same mathematics behind Diffie-Hellman Key Exchange, a widely used algorithm for creating secure network-based communications systems, and is highly respected by security experts. 
	
more

RPK RELEASES LATEST VERSION OF ENCRYPTONITE TOOLKIT	 PG. 2 OF 3


"I have reviewed the RPK public key cryptosystem and believe the algorithm to be secure and suitable for use in secure applications," said Fred Piper, cryptographer, Codes & Ciphers Ltd.
	The RPK Encryptonite Engine provides a method of encrypting (also known as encoding) computer data or digital electronic signals to protect its contents against unauthorized surveillance.  RPK Encryptonite Engine is unique in that it combines all the benefits of other public key systems (authentication, digital signatures and digital certificates) with the speed of a secret key system into one algorithm. With the superior performance offered by RPK's Encryptonite Engine, applications requiring streaming data, sound, video or large numbers of transactions, such as credit card payments, receive instantaneous responses and secure communication links.
	"In response to customer requests for a variety of software implementations as well as custom hardware (chips), we now offer developers and engineers a multi-platform premium encryption product that is easy to use and offers flexible and scalable levels of security and performance," said Jack Oswald, president and CEO of RPK Security. "Because the RPK Toolkit is developed outside of the U.S., it is not subject to U.S. export laws which gives a tremendous advantage to international customers, allowing them to produce secure, fast and flexible systems."

Features of RPK Encryptonite Software Toolkit 3.0:
Eighty different levels of encryption security 
Global availability with strong encryption
Faster encryption and decryption of data files and streams 
Based on proven mathematics of Diffie-Hellman Key Exchange algorithm
Easy to use object-oriented design
Extremely well suited to embedded applications
Less expensive to implement than competing products

	
more



RPK RELEASES LATEST VERSION OF ENCRYPTONITE TOOLKIT	 PG. 3 OF 3


Pricing and Availability:
	The RPK Encryptonite Software Toolkit is now available for licensing worldwide. Pricing starts at $695 per developer (development only). Deployment license fees are based upon custom configurations. For sales information, contact Kevin Shannon, vice president, sales at (610) 399-7999, or via e-mail at sales@rpkusa.com

The RPK Encryptonite Software Toolkit includes: highly portable, cross-platform, C++ class libraries with full source code for use with Win 95, 98, NT and Linux, and VCL component for Borland's Delphi 3.0/2.0 running under Microsoft Windows 95 and NT. It was compiled and tested with Microsoft's Visual C++, Borland C++ Builder,  gnu/g++ and Borland Delphi 2.0/3.0. Windows DLL and ActiveX will be available by August 15, 1998.  C source library, Solaris and HP/UX ports, and Java implementations will be available by August 31, 1998.

ABOUT RPK SECURITY
Founded in 1995, RPK Security, Inc. is a technology leader in fast public key cryptography.  Its flagship RPK Encryptonite(tm) Engine, a strong and uniquely fast public key encryption technology, is available worldwide in custom hardware and software toolkits on multiple platforms.  RPK solutions are ideal for electronic communications, financial transactions, Internet banking, smart cards, streaming audio-video, telecommunications and more. Developed from widely accepted security mathematics and techniques, the RPK Encryptonite Engine is easily embedded into new and existing hardware and software applications.  RPK's cryptographic research and product development is based in New Zealand, Switzerland and the U.K, with worldwide sales and marketing operations in San Francisco, CA.  Visit RPK's website at www.rpkusa.com or call (212) 488-9891.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Kent Crispin 
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 18:46:06 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: John Gilmore and the Great Internet Snake Drive
In-Reply-To: <19980727141055.63396@songbird.com>
Message-ID: <19980727184320.50687@songbird.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Mon, Jul 27, 1998 at 09:20:10PM -0400, mgraffam@mhv.net wrote:
> On Mon, 27 Jul 1998, Kent Crispin wrote:
> 
> > It occurs to me that an interesting use for the eff des cracker would
> > be the following: since the government asserts that DES is safe, then
> > a DES encrypted archive of crypto code should be exportable.
> 
> No. Encrypting with DES, or any symmetric cipher
> does not destroy the information, which is what is controlled.
> Even losing the key does not destroy the information, as we all know:
> keys can be recovered it is just a matter of the work involved.

Apparently we are talking at cross purposes.

Currently, there are rather large ftp crypto archives that are
"protected" by a scheme using randomly generated directory names. 
This is considered acceptable by the export authorities.  The export
authorities would have a hard time, therefore, arguing that an archive
protected by encrypting the files with DES would not be sufficiently
protected.

It would be a stunt, of course.  Merely another stunt to illustrate 
the inconsistencies in the export laws.

[...]
> We don't need encrypted archives floating around.. we need to show that,
> like cars, crypto devices (programs or otherwise!) are useful even if
> they can be used by bad people for bad purposes.
> 
> Abstract things like exporting a hunk of random crap and arguing about
> it don't achieve this, and will never do so in the minds of laymen
> with no real interest in crypto.

I quite disagree.  Frequently a clever stunt does engage the layman 
-- at least the intelligent laymen.

-- 
Kent Crispin, PAB Chair			"No reason to get excited",
kent@songbird.com			the thief he kindly spoke...
PGP fingerprint:   B1 8B 72 ED 55 21 5E 44  61 F4 58 0F 72 10 65 55
http://songbird.com/kent/pgp_key.html




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: attila 
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 12:02:43 -0700 (PDT)
To: "S. M. Halloran" 
Subject: Re: FDR
In-Reply-To: <199807271446.RAA18652@ankara.192.168.3.5>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Mon, 27 Jul 1998, S. M. Halloran wrote:

>Actually, attila, or Linda, or whoever you are...you are right.
>
>I neglected to take into consideration that this attempt at revisionist 
>history of the greatest President of the US in the 20th Century, perhaps 
>in US history...
>
    are you really calling this cretinous, brain dead sorry excuse for a
    human being who was not worth being spat upon by the crippled camel of
    a third-world pepophilic dictator with poor table manners, the
    greatest President in our history? 

    man, you're one sick puppy.

    are we talking about the same President?  really? FDR? the man who
    sold our country into perpetual slavery on 08 Mar 33?  4 days after
    he was inaugerated in a speech where he "warned" he was asking for
    emergency powers, even stronger than war time powers?

    who managed to coerce a Congress, not even given a chance to read 
    what they were signing, into a declaration of national emergency 
    so this so called American could suspend the constitution, amend the 
    WWI "trading with the enemy" act so the citizens of what was once 
    the USA were also included among the  enemy...? who pledged -us- and
    all our property into the servitude of the  Federal Reserve and its 
    private owners, of which more than 50% is foreign?

    the same man who forfeited our good faith and credit to the bankers
    in bamkruptcy so the U.S. is now subject to Admiralty law and flies
    the gold fringed flag of martial law in all its courtrooms?

    the same man who inaugerated the Executive Order provision which gives
    the President and Secretary of the Treasury the power to rule without
    Congress?  and to enshrine the executive order into part of the US
    Code (USC 963, I believe)? 

    who contracted with the international bankers to print paper money as 
    Federal Reserve notes for which he owed the bankers the cash he had 
    just printed plus interest while they used the cash to buy the T-bills
    (the instrument of indebtedness)? --and confiscated private gold at
    $20 an Oz --later setting the standard at $34/Oz so the insiders made
    a killing? 

    the same man who tried to pack the Supreme Court? 

    the same man who  ran for a third term on an isolationist platform
    romising every mother that her sons would not fight a foreign war 
    then diplomatically left Japan no option but to go to war? 

    the same man who left Pearl Harbor out of loop with no code books for 
    the Red or Purple code so the defining act to start America in the war 
    wasted the Pacific Fleet with its ammo in the warehouses to be blown 
    up, 2,000+ dead, and battleships lying on the bottom? 

    the same man who violated the law and defied Congress with the 
    Lend-Lease program, gave away half of Europe to Russia, handed Russia 
    Berlin?  the same man whose two closest advisers were communists?  

    I always wanted to believe Alger Hiss was innocent as his son Tony 
    was in my class at Harvard --he wasnt innocent, nor were the Rosenbergs 
    as the CIA had cracked the code but would not show it in court --they 
    even knew who handed over the trigger mechanism (never punished and he 
    left the U.S. after the Manhattan project and taught for many years at 
    Oxford).

    yep, good Ol' Uncle Joe Stalin's best friend, along with bankers like
    Schiff who financed the Russians. 

    it's no conspiracy that Prescott Bush was complicite, but left holding 
    the bag. when the U.S. in '42 confiscated Union Bank which was started 
    by George's grandfather Herbert Walker -that's why George ran away from 
    home, joined the air corps and became a war hero at 18. why was the
    bank grabbed --Union was a front for A.G. Farber and for Hitler
    --Walker and his friends had been funding Hitler since the early 
    twenties --why? greed and power. 

    it's no conspiracy; it's history, in black and white Universal news 
    reels.  

    FDR, the incestuous son of bitch (Eleanor was is cousin) should have 
    been shot for treason --along with Eleanor. McCarthy, a scum-bag  if 
    there ever was one, was far closer to the truth than he ever knew.

    wake up and smell the roses! they've been fertilized by the shit of
    Eleanor Roosevelt for many years --she's still crapping in the White
    House garden for the first bitch to read the tea rose leaves.  

    there are no conspiracies, just men behaving like they always do; the
    vulture capitalists is that they only back off when their fear exceeds 
    their greed.  politicians arent smart enough to back off their greed 
    and their thirst for power as they blasphemously take take the oath 
    of office.


>this raving and ranting to take the name of FDR in 
>vain...this dribble to take all of humanity's name in vain...this project 
>to develop the Mother of All Conspiracy Theories, including figuring out a 
>way to show the Big Bang is/was, all of it, every last bit, a conspiracy...
>
    there are no conspiracies; it's nothing more than man fouling his own
    nest; the normal progression of history which no-one learns so they 
    repeat the same mistakes --the well-fed populace is too lazy to take
    an interest in their own government until it is too late.

    there is no left and right; there is no moral government; it's all
    about power and staying in power.  ever notice how reformers only
    stay reformers until they need to run for reelection and the money
    goes to those who play ball?

>...well, it could be ciphertext for which I have not received the key for 
>making into plaintext.  Someone please forward the key to me.
>
    what key? there is no key... except "mene, mene, tikel, upharrison" 
    (or whatever it was on the wall).  just open your eyes and view the 
    sewer around you. the fertilizer in the fields is now distributing
    "radioactive" waste --effluent courtesy of your politicians.

    the U.S. is already an oligarchy, next comes the plutocracy, followed
    by the triumvirate, and then the emporer (maybe with clothes) -then
    there will be a winnowing and anarchy followed by tribal states. welcome
    to history, but few will live to see it run its course --America, the
    universally hated, will be the first to be plowed under when she can
    no longer bully or buy the -pax americanus-. and the men in power know
    that a hungry disorganized populace can be subjugated by a well fed
    army.

>By the way, I'm really one of you guys.  I am just working a cover among 
>the people who call themselves sane until you guys who really know the 
>truth can get into a position reveal these eternal truths to the 
>unbelievers.  he-he!
>
>Really.
>
>[if you think you see a crazy person, consider the very real possibility 
>that what you are seeing is really a crazy person]
>

    sorry, I really am crazy, but it's better to be crazy than insane.

>
>Mitch Halloran
>Research (Bio)chemist
>Duzen Laboratories Group

    another Brit/American selling his ass to the world....

>Ankara   TURKEY
>mitch@duzen.com.tr
>
>An ass with a golden saddle is still an ass.   --Turkish proverb
>
    yeah, but he's a rich ass...

__________________________________________________________________________
    go not unto usenet for advice, for the inhabitants thereof will say:
      yes, and no, and maybe, and I don't know, and fuck-off.
_________________________________________________________________ attila__

    To be a ruler of men, you need at least 12 inches....
    There is no safety this side of the grave.  Never was; never will be.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@nsm.htp.org
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 13:05:26 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Spam Help
In-Reply-To: <199807271834.OAA16760@deathstar.comnet.ca>
Message-ID: <19980727200504.11080.qmail@nsm.htp.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Mon, 27 Jul 1998 14:35:05 -0400  "Your Yashy" 
wrote:

>  I was wondering if I could get some help setting up a filter. I'd 
>liketo create a folder called "SPAM". Then all email that are in the 
>spam folder

For fuck sake.  If is isn't AOL, it is some of lame fuck asking for help
with filters.  Where do people get the idea that the toaderpunks can help
with all these problems?  We've had baseball signatures, lost people and
now some idiot who really wants the pegasus list or something <--hint


cypherpunkseeker









From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: JBrown4330@aol.com
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 18:08:45 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Republicans
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hey:  Who made up the term "Politically Correct"?  Not Christians and not
Republicans. Your side did.  How does wanting a smaller government, less
taxes, the freedom to CHOOSE to pray in schools, the rights of the un-born( of
course you probably think they have no rights- just as slave owners thought
about their slaves), and who acts like the thought police??????

                                                      CHOKE ON IT YOU
HYPOCRITE




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: mgraffam@mhv.net
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 18:32:55 -0700 (PDT)
To: Kent Crispin 
Subject: Re: John Gilmore and the Great Internet Snake Drive
In-Reply-To: <19980727141055.63396@songbird.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Mon, 27 Jul 1998, Kent Crispin wrote:

> It occurs to me that an interesting use for the eff des cracker would
> be the following: since the government asserts that DES is safe, then
> a DES encrypted archive of crypto code should be exportable.

No. Encrypting with DES, or any symmetric cipher
does not destroy the information, which is what is controlled.
Even losing the key does not destroy the information, as we all know:
keys can be recovered it is just a matter of the work involved.

Encrypting with an OTP is interesting at first .. but considering that
distributing a crypto archive or the completed works of Shakespeare
amount to the same thing after an OTP has been used, I am not convinced
it has much meaning.

The _spirit_ of the law is that no crypto device can be exported. Programs
are considered to be devices.. as is evidenced by the recent decision
in the Bernstein case.

We don't need encrypted archives floating around.. we need to show that,
like cars, crypto devices (programs or otherwise!) are useful even if
they can be used by bad people for bad purposes.

Abstract things like exporting a hunk of random crap and arguing about
it don't achieve this, and will never do so in the minds of laymen
with no real interest in crypto.

As for me, I prefer the position of my countryman, Henry David Thoreau ..
civil disobedience:

Michael J. Graffam (mgraffam@mhv.net)
http://www.mhv.net/~mgraffam -- Philosophy, Religion, Computers, Crypto, etc
Be a munitions trafficker: http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/rsa-keygen.html

#!/bin/perl -sp0777i
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 19:43:22 -0700 (PDT)
To: mgraffam@mhv.net
Subject: Re: John Gilmore and the Great Internet Snake Drive
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199807280239.WAA01586@domains.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In , on 07/27/98 
   at 09:20 PM, mgraffam@mhv.net said:

>The _spirit_ of the law is that no crypto device can be exported.
>Programs are considered to be devices.. as is evidenced by the recent
>decision in the Bernstein case.

That was the Junger case. In the Bernstein case the principles of Free
Speach and the 1st Amendment were upheld by the 9th District court
(Patel).

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: OS/2: Windows done RIGHT!

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3a-sha1
Charset: cp850
Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000

iQCVAwUBNb07gY9Co1n+aLhhAQHstwQApoCNdr8viSr0BSNMz3UE3t2dMKeUTkL8
xGL3u5RQIk/5GQo68Rc+Tvftl/VNsPLoMZISpW6Lx5uPHQLS4zj6VlUaEvfNpc9J
eGba5PEEbQr7XS3/cqjyi2SfpVzihmgd5/808g8uonZK5B/9TAljt7XvIjmiD4Ku
HOoQW/2AAhY=
=D2K7
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 12:46:30 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199807271945.VAA26183@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: mgraffam@mhv.net
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 19:54:56 -0700 (PDT)
To: "William H. Geiger III" 
Subject: Re: John Gilmore and the Great Internet Snake Drive
In-Reply-To: <199807280239.WAA01586@domains.invweb.net>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Mon, 27 Jul 1998, William H. Geiger III wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> 
> In , on 07/27/98 
>    at 09:20 PM, mgraffam@mhv.net said:
> 
> >The _spirit_ of the law is that no crypto device can be exported.
> >Programs are considered to be devices.. as is evidenced by the recent
> >decision in the Bernstein case.
> 
> That was the Junger case. In the Bernstein case the principles of Free
> Speach and the 1st Amendment were upheld by the 9th District court
> (Patel).

You're absolutably right. My bad.. I don't know what I was thinking.
I guess this shows my pessimissim and lack of trust in our establishment,
doesn't it :)

Michael J. Graffam (mgraffam@mhv.net)
http://www.mhv.net/~mgraffam -- Philosophy, Religion, Computers, Crypto, etc
Be a munitions trafficker: http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/rsa-keygen.html

#!/bin/perl -sp0777i
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 00:05:04 -0700 (PDT)
To: chrisharwig@hetnet.nl>
Subject: Re: Fw: my thoughts for this list
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980727235810.00934840@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 12:19 PM 7/27/98 -0400, mgraffam@mhv.net wrote:

>GPG = GNU Privacy Guard.
>
>GPG is a PGP work-a-like .. doesn't support RSA (yet) due to the patents,
>but once they run out, GPG will use it. I think it uses Blowfish (and
>CAST?) for the symmetric algorithms, and probably 3DES too. I dunno
>about IDEA .. I have my doubts due to the patents. 

Actually, GPG has been a PGP-look-similar-but-not-interoperate-like
rather tha a workalike.  Unless GPG has been updated lately,
GPG keys tend to do Very Crashy Things to my PGP 5.5.x
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Rabid Wombat 
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 18:44:35 -0700 (PDT)
To: Babybee390@aol.com
Subject: Re: vinyl stickers
In-Reply-To: <57a0eea8.35bfcae7@aol.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



No, but we do offer clues. To qualify, you must memorize the 
cybernomicon, and help Tim find his shoes.

On Wed, 29 Jul 1998 Babybee390@aol.com wrote:

> do you have music vinyl stickers , if so , could i get them wholesale?
> 
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: LookBelow@msn.com
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 00:02:28 -0700 (PDT)
To: WiseFolk@yahoo.com
Subject: Beat The IRS & PAY-NO-MORE
Message-ID: <199807280624.BAA05367@sw.crfc.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: sosechal@easynet.fr (laurent breton)
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 01:25:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Frozen shrimp and sole from senegal (west africa)
Message-ID: <199807280825.BAA14739@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Date : 28/July/98

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: attila 
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 08:31:11 -0700 (PDT)
To: Jim Gillogly 
Subject: Re: FDR
In-Reply-To: <9807272025.AA16791@mentat.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Mon, 27 Jul 1998, Jim Gillogly wrote:

>Woops, cryptography relevance inadvertently embedded in a farrago by Attila:
>
>>     I always wanted to believe Alger Hiss was innocent as his son Tony 
>>     was in my class at Harvard --he wasnt innocent, nor were the Rosenbergs 
>>     as the CIA had cracked the code but would not show it in court --they 
>>     even knew who handed over the trigger mechanism (never punished and he 
>>     left the U.S. after the Manhattan project and taught for many years at 
>>     Oxford).
>
>For one thing, the CIA didn't crack the VENONA ciphers: it was the
>Signal Intelligence Service at Arlington Hall, a predecessor of the
>NSA, and NSA continued the cracks for the next three decades.
>
	you are absolutely correct --my gaffe. CIA has never worked code
	to my knowledge. in fact, the old man who was the lead
	mathematician on the Verona project just died, did he not?

>While the VENONA decrypts do indeed establish the Rosenbergs' guilt
>beyond reasonable doubt, the evidence about Alger Hiss is more
>tenuous.  The only relevant evidence released is a single decrypt at
>http://www.nsa.gov:8080/docs/venona/docs/Mar45/30_Mar_1945_R3_m4_p1.gif
>about an interview with a Communist agent code-named ALES.  A footnote
>says ALES is "Probably Alger Hiss".  The text of the message says that
>ALES was at the Yalta conference (Alger Hiss was in fact there) and
>went on to Moscow (I don't know whether Hiss did this or not, nor how
>many others of the rather large American team did so).
>
	I believe he went on to Moscow since he was one of FDR's two or
	three top people. I would need to reread the rather long paper
	on the various people involved and just how close McCarthy was
	to a truth he could not prove --didn't make McCarthy any less of a
	scumbag, though. I read the Alger Hiss portions of the documen-
	tation rather carefully because of the personal friendship I had
	with Tony who was a very genuine, refined individual (we were
  	on the Harvard Crimson editorial staff together). I will also
	check your reference on Verona, but I believe there is more in
	the open records which ties it down.

	what is interesting is the number of intelligent individuals who
	not only believe in the concept of socialism/communism, but were
	essentially apologists for Lenin, Trotsky, Stalin, etc. through
	the period 1917-1950. it was if the pain of Russia's people was
	just a catharsis on the road to Utopia --by 1950, the apologia 
	wore rather thin...

	the guilt of the man who passed the trigger from White Sands is
	confirmed beyond a doubt by Verona also.
>
>In any case, the identification is less than certain, and much less
>definitive than the Rosenberg data.
>
	granted, but with the outside information, sufficient I believe
	to raise more than an eyebrow and Alger Hiss certainly should not
	have been in the position of trust and power that he was. part of
	the evidence is based on process of elimination --if not Hiss,
	who was standing at FDR's side in incident or "give-up" time and
	time again?  with or without the McCarthy Red scare, I think the
	evidence was sufficient to convict, but then and again, I am known
	to be wrong --as above...

__________________________________________________________________________
    go not unto usenet for advice, for the inhabitants thereof will say:
      yes, and no, and maybe, and I don't know, and fuck-off.
_________________________________________________________________ attila__





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ulf@fitug.de (Ulf =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=F6ller?=)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 18:26:33 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: ACM CCCS '98: Anonymity on the Internet
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


The ACM CCCS'98 conference (November 1998) has recently been announced
on cryptography@c2.net.

There will be a panel on "Anonymity on the Internet", moderated by
Paul Syverson.  There's also a paper discussing the attacks
nym.alias.net has had to face:

   David Mazičres and M. Frans Kaashoek. The design, implementation and
   operation of an email pseudonym server. In Proceedings of the 5th ACM
   Conference on Computer and Communications Security, 1998.

ftp://cag.lcs.mit.edu/pub/dm/papers/mazieres:pnym.ps.gz




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: wcts@globalvisionexpo.com
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 03:51:03 -0700 (PDT)
To: wcts@globalvisionexpo.com
Subject: Your literature on our world tour
Message-ID: <199807281050.DAA16195@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


From:  Charles H. Borden
President, GlobalVision
Sarasota, Florida


Please kindly direct to the Sales and Marketing Decision Maker

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President, GlobalVision







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Samson 
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 05:21:38 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: "Where's Toto?"
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <381410550f7263fa4eb10ed0cd923f34@samson.ml.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Mon, 27 Jul 1998 17:57:20 -0700  Tim May  wrote:

> >Where's Toto?
>
> Toto has been bombing us for weeks. Or did you think "Linda Reed" is really
> a woman, rather than a small dog?

Shit!  There goes that fantasy!  For weeks I've dreamt about how kewl
it would be to fuck a female cypherpunk.

I guess I'll have to become a fed... at least I can fuck Jim Bell.


gurlmonger










From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED/EUREKA! 
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 06:36:56 -0700 (PDT)
To: All Eureka/Stuffed Subscribers: ;
Subject: $200,000 pussy for sale/Double Ds make me sneeze
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 07:20:52 -0700 (PDT)
To: sjmz@hplb.hpl.hp.com
Subject: Fisher's ORDER of July 22, 1998
Message-ID: <35BDDD11.4186@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Tuesday 7/28/98 7:34 AM

John Young

Morales and I met for lunch yesterday.

We formulated our response to Fisher's ORDER of July 22, 1998.

We will get it out this week.

Wayland wants to meet this morning to talk BUSINESS.

I attach what I wrote for Wayland's and his Texas A&M buddies
SBIR proposal.

I am also working on the techie side of the digital FX.

I am getting 8051 machines working AGAIN.  

Thank goodness I wrote a book documenting what we did.

I have to study my own book to TRY TO figure out what is going
wrong!

Our phone conversation when you told me about some SCARY
people you met some years ago reminds me of Sandian James Gosler.

Sandia transferred me into Robert Ewing's division to break electronic
locks for the FBI.

Gosler was then made Ewing's projects boss.

It was at this time that Gosler told me that my abilities were being
wasted
breaking locks for the FBI.

Gosler told me he was going to transfer me to an NSA project.  

I refused.  

NSA requires signed one's civil liberties away to work on their
projects. http://www.jya.com/nsa-sun.htm

After I just met Bob Wayland, Wayland told me to keep away from Gosler.

Wayland told me - and others too - that one of Gosler's female employees
invited Gosler to her home after work.

Gosler raped her, I was told.

Gosler threatened to kill her if she revealed the rape, I was told.

My former department manager, Kent Parsons, and Forth advocate told me
that he thought that Gosler
was "one of Sandia's true crazies."

Gosler is the supervisor to told me

  When Payne balked, his supervisor said Payne "did not choose his jobs.
Rather, Sandia assigns     duties to"  him. http://www.jya.com/whp1.htm

What scares me is that guys like Gosler are working for our government.

Let's all hope for settlement before this matter gets WORSE.

Later
bill


         	WEED KILLER computer interface proposal section 7/27/98 10:11 AM

Solution to controlling and collecting data from the WEED KILLER involves interfacing a personal computer
running a version of the Windows operating system to the WEED KILLER analog/digital hardware.

Windows is not a real-time operating system, therefore  microcontroller controller/collector hardware 
interface must be installed between a Wintel PC and the WEED KILLER hardware.

Essence of the Wintel data collector problem is that Windows 3.x or 9x responds to a hardware interrupt
usually between 70 to 150 microseconds.  In rare occasions the interrupt latency may extend to 1.5 
milliseconds or even longer.  A microcontroller responds to an interrupt in several microseconds.

Wintel hardware controller interface is even more difficult than collection for the reason that the Windows 
operating system only gives control to an application when Windows decides.  In the collection, mode at
least a hardware interrupt signals Windows that the application wants control.  However, the microcontroller
can send the Wintel an interrupt asking the applications code whether there is any message it needs to
send the microcontroller.

Microcontrollers have specialized timers, serial expansion ports and are, therefore, designed to be interfaced to 
analog and digital hardware. 

An 80C32 family microcontroller is proposed for the WEED KILLER application for reasons.

1  The 80C32 will do the job.

2  Multiple vendors of 80C32 guarantee future supply at a competitive price.  Current suppliers include
 Intel, AMD, Winbond, Dallas, Philips, Siemens, OKI,  ATMEL, ... 

3  High-speed parallel port bi-directional IEEE 1284 enhanced capability port 9 (ecp) communications 
hardware between an 80C32 and PC is in the final stage of development.

4  IEEE 1284 hardware drivers are supplied with Windows NT.  Custom assembler dll drivers are available
for 9x and 3.x.

5  A public-domain Forth 8051 operating system hosting a high-level language and interactive assembler with 
complete source code documentation is available on Internet. http://jya.com/f86/whpf86.htm

Hardcover book further documenting 5 is available from Academic Press.
http://www.apcatalog.com/cgi-bin/AP?ISBN=0125475705&LOCATION=US&FORM=FORM2

Only a Wintel machine is required for both hardware and software for the WEED KILLER project.  

Usually a Forth hardware/software development probject on requres a voltmeter, logic probe, and, 
infrequently, an oscilloscope.  Reason  is the INTERACTIVE control of the hardware and software
from a PC keyboard and diagnostic information easily printed to a PC monitor.

Justification for assertion made in the above paragraph comes from Internet.

NASA uses Forth extensively for its space programs. http://groucho.gsfc.nasa.gov/forth/

Ballard used polyForth http://av.yahoo.com/bin/query?p=polyforth&z=2&hc=0&hs=0
to locate wrecks of the Titanic, Bismarck, and Yorktown.
http://www.nationalgeographic.com/features/98/midway

Sun Microsystems workstation boot into Forth then invokes Solaris. http://playground.sun.com/pub/1275/

Adobe Postscript is a version of Forth. 
http://www.mactech.com/articles/mactech/language/forth-postscript.html

Video game software are written mostly in Forth.

The Wintel side of the WEED KILLER project will be most-likely written in a small
amount of assembler interface code and Visual Basic.

While Forth threaded code software technology is extremely valuable in some settings,
it is not in others.

Java is a variation of Forth.  http://www.mrl.nyu.edu/meyer/jvmref/

Future of Java on Wintel machines is unclear at this time.

For example,

  The hottest items among techies is a browser called Opera.   
  This is a $40 shareware program that in speed and compact   
  size buts both IE and Communicator to shame.  It has a slightly   
  different interface from either of the majors - an interface some find    
  refreshing while other find less than useful.  As it's shareware, you can   
  try and then buy if you like it.  One reason for its speed is that it ignores   
  Java - the Internet's Bandwidth Pig (IBP).   
 
  The Rumor Mill by Paul Cassel
  ComputerScene Magazine  July 1998   
   
Forth executes code High-level at about 10% the speed of a compiled high-level
language.

Speed of execution of small applications is not effected by Forth's slow execution.

Reason is that initial code is written in high-level Forth.  

Inner loops are then translated into Forth assembler.

Speed is maintained with the advantage that data structures are created an maintained in
high-level language while the interactive operating system is retained for trouble shooting
both hardware and software problem.

Hardware cost of building the 80C32 the WEED KILLER boards is estimated at $10k.

Hardware design is estimated at 1 month labor at $50/hr for a total of $8k.

Software development on the 80C32 side in Forth and Forth assembler, software on the
Wintel side in Visual Basic and assembler, documentation, and training is estimated to
be 4 months for a total of $32k
   
 /\/\/\
end


Counterfeiting Wiegand Wire Access Credentials
     
                                   Bill Payne
     
                                 October 16,1996
     
                                    Abstract
     
                  Wiegand wire access credentials are easy and
                  inexpensive to counterfeit.
     
        Access Control & Security Systems Integration magazine, October
        1996 [http://www/securitysolutions.com] published the article,
     
             Wiegand technology stands the test of time
     
             by PAUL J. BODELL, page 12
     
             Many card and reader manufacturers offer Wiegand (pronounced
             wee-gand) output.  However, only three companies in the
             world make Wiegand readers.  Sensor Engineering of Hamden
             Conn., holds the patent for Wiegand, and Sensor has licensed
             Cardkey of Simi Valley, Calif., and Doduco of Pforzheim,
             Germany, to manufacture Wiegand cards and readers. ...  A
             Wiegand output reader is not the same thing as a Wiegand
             reader,  and it is important to understand the differences.
     
                In brief, Wiegand reader use the Wiegand effect to
             translate card information around the patented Wiegand
             effect in which a segment of a specially treated wire
             generates an electronic pulse when subjected to a specific
             magnetic field.  If the pulse is generated when the wire is
             near a pick-up coil, the pulse can be detected by a circuit.
             Lining up several rows of wires and passing them by a cold
             would generate a series of pulses.  Lining up two rows of
             wires - calling on row "zero bits" and the other "one bits"
             - and passing them by two different coils would generate two
             series of pulses, or data bits.  These data bits can then be
             interpreted as binary data and used to control other
             devices.  If you seal the coils in a rugged housing with
             properly placed magnets, and LED and some simple circuitry,
             you have a Wiegand reader.  Carefully laminate the special
             wires in vinyl, and artwork, and hot-stamp a number on the
             vinyl, and you have a Wiegand card.
     
             IN THE BEGINNING
     
               Wiegand was first to introduce to the access control
             market in the late 1970s.  It was immediately successful
             because it filled the need for durable, secure card and
             reader technology.
               Embedded in the cards, Wiegand wires cannot be altered or
             duplicated. ...
     
        Bodell's Last statement is incorrect.
     
        Tasks for EASILY counterfeiting Wiegand wire cards are
     
        1    Locate the wires inside the card to read the 0s and 1s.
     
        2    Build an ACCEPTABLE copy of the card.
     
        Bodell's clear explanation of the working of a Wiegand card can
        be visualized
     
             zero row    |     |   |
     
             one row        |          |
     
             binary      0  1  0   0   1
             representation
     
        Solutions to Task 1
     
             A    X-ray the card
     
             B    MAGNI VIEW FILM,  Mylar film reads magnetic fields ...
                  Edmunds Scientific Company, catalog 16N1, page
                  205, C33,447  $11.75
     
        is placed over the top of the Wiegand card.
     
        COW MAGNET,  Cow magnetics allow farmers to trap metal in the
        stomachs of their cows.  Edmunds, page 204, C31,101 $10.75
        is placed under the card.
     
        Location of the wires is easily seen on the green film.
     
        Mark the position of the wires with a pen.
     
        Next chop the card vertically using a shear into about 80/1000s
        paper-match-sized strips.
     
        Don't worry about cutting a wire or two.
     
        Note that a 0 has the pen mark to the top.  A 1 has the pen mark
        at the bottom.
     
        Take a business card and layout the "paper match"-like strips to
        counterfeit the card number desired.
     
        Don't worry about spacing.  Wiegand output is self-clocking!
     
        Tape the "paper-match - like" strips to the business card.
     
        Only the FUNCTION of the card needs to be reproduced!
     
                                     History
     
        Breaking electronic locks was done as "work for others" at Sandia
     
        National Laboratories beginning in 1992 funded by the Federal
        Bureau of Investigation/Engineering Research Facility, Quantico,
        VA.
     
        The FBI opined that this work was SECRET/NATIONAL SECURITY
        INFORMATION.
     
        Details of the consequences of this work are covered in
     
             Fired Worker File Lawsuit Against Sandia
             Specialist Says He Balked When Lab Sought Electronic
             Picklock Software, Albuquer Journal, Sunday April 25, 1993
     
             State-sanctioned paranoia,  EE Times, January 22, 1996
     
             One man's battle,  EE Times, March 22, 1994
     
             Damn the torpedoes,  EE Times, June 6, 1994
     
             Protecting properly classified info,  EE Times, April 11,
             1994
     
             DOE to scrutinize fairness in old whistle-blower cases,
             Albuquerque Tribune, Nov 7 1995
     
             DOE boss accelerates whistle-blower protection,  Albuquerque
             Tribune, March 27, 1996
     
             DOE doesn't plan to compensate 'old' whistle-blowers with
             money, Albuquerque Tribune September 27, 199




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Vox9869@aol.com
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 06:21:03 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: window stickers
Message-ID: <8a1bc0a4.35bdd008@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I'm looking for Lynrd Skynrds Freebird  on a window sticker for my car.  Do
you know where I can find one?




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 09:37:57 -0700 (PDT)
To: Mok-Kong Shen 
Subject: Re: encrypted FM radio hiss
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980727110437.007b8100@m7.sprynet.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980728093729.007deb30@m7.sprynet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 10:40 AM 7/28/98 +0100, Mok-Kong Shen wrote:
>David Honig wrote:
>
>> The output of a good block cipher in feedback mode will pass Diehard tests,
>> though it is not crypto-secure.
>
>I often see the phrase 'pass Diehard test' though I don't see from
>the documents of Diehard how to evaluate the volumenous printout
>of Diehard to say exactly whether the test is passed or not. Furthermore
>the component asc2bin.exe of Diehard is buggy.
>
>M. K. Shen
>

My rough understanding: the 'P' value is a measure on the hypothesis that
the test sample is a truly random sample, where truly random is defined by
the expected 
statistical properties being measured.  Eg in 100 bits you expect to find
50 1's; 
if you count 48, is your 100-bit sample consistant with it being
unpredictable?

If you get values near 1.0 your sample is not likely taken from a random pool.


Try this: generate 10Meg from a block cipher feeding back on itself.  Diehard
will pass these.  (Diehard needs 10M samples)

Now run FM hiss into your soundcard.  Sample this at 8Khz (to avoid
temporal correlation)
and save to a file til you have 10Meg.  Diehard will reject this.  Make a
larger
file, and then gzip it down to 10Meg.  (That it shrinks indicates its symbols
don't carry a full bit.)  Run Diehard on this.  It will pass more tests but
not all.


Take the FM hiss, feed it into a stream cipher, and start burning those OTPs.


Do this with a detuned *video* tuner for more bandwidth. 








honig@alum.mit.edu

   "Speech is not protected simply because it is written in a language"	
	Federal Misjudge Gwin on the Bernstein Case









From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mok-Kong Shen 
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 01:41:06 -0700 (PDT)
To: David Honig 
Subject: Re: encrypted FM radio hiss
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980727110437.007b8100@m7.sprynet.com>
Message-ID: <35BD8E9A.799466A6@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


David Honig wrote:

> The output of a good block cipher in feedback mode will pass Diehard tests,
> though it is not crypto-secure.

I often see the phrase 'pass Diehard test' though I don't see from
the documents of Diehard how to evaluate the volumenous printout
of Diehard to say exactly whether the test is passed or not. Furthermore
the component asc2bin.exe of Diehard is buggy.

M. K. Shen




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 10:10:46 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: DoD on Infosec and Crypto
Message-ID: <199807281710.NAA25500@camel7.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


DoD released today a July 21 speech by John Hamre to a
gathering of Fortune 500 CIOs of which about half dealt
with infosec and encryption issues:

   http://jya.com/dod072198.htm  (53K)

Mentioned: the EFF DES crack, PGP, offshore products, 
the need for expensive hardware to bolster cheap code,
Eligible Receiver, the difficulty of DoD meshing its legacy
decrepit systems with cutting edge warfighting technology, 
concern about foreign Y2K, the need to slaughter when no 
one volunteers to help.

DoD boosts strong encryption as the primary means to
protect mil and com info but insists on "balancing"
the needs of privacy and law enforcement. Questioners
bluntly challenged equating the two.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: CTIA Daily News 
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 11:56:38 -0700 (PDT)
To: CTIA Daily News 
Subject: CTIA Daily News from WOW-COM - July 28, 1998
Message-ID: <199807281818.NAA13019@mailstrom.revnet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




==========================================
Welcome to today's edition of the CTIA Daily News
from WOW-COM.  Please click on the icon / attachment
for the most important news in wireless communications today.

A new multi-billion dollar industry is here! 
Be at CTIA's WIRELESS I.T. '98
where personal computing and communications converge!

Don't Miss Your Chance -- October 12-14, 1998
Bally's Las Vegas, Las Vegas, NV

For more information, visit http://www.wirelessit.com 
===========================================
 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 12:00:32 -0700 (PDT)
To: John Young 
Subject: Re: DoD on Infosec and Crypto
In-Reply-To: <199807281710.NAA25500@camel7.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <199807281900.PAA03283@domains.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In <199807281710.NAA25500@camel7.mindspring.com>, on 07/28/98 
   at 01:05 PM, John Young  said:

>DoD boosts strong encryption as the primary means to
>protect mil and com info but insists on "balancing"
>the needs of privacy and law enforcement. Questioners
>bluntly challenged equating the two.

You know I almost feel sorry for these guys. They *must* know that they
come off looking like complete fools with this line of "you need strong
crypto but not too strong that we can't snoop".

I did say *almost*. :)

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: OS/2: Logic, not magic.

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Version: 2.6.3a-sha1
Charset: cp850
Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: attila 
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 11:19:21 -0700 (PDT)
To: Samson 
Subject: Re: "Where's Toto?"
In-Reply-To: <381410550f7263fa4eb10ed0cd923f34@samson.ml.org>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



    y'al are missing the tornado: "Toto" is a small dog. rather
    territorial in fact. now, since I have literally made the 
    acquaintance of both "Toto" and his master/mistress, I shall 
    leave the reader to solve the exercise of "who is the master?"

    clue: it's not attila!

    clue: all truth can be found in "Alice in Wonderland"

	attila out...


On Tue, 28 Jul 1998, Samson wrote:

>On Mon, 27 Jul 1998 17:57:20 -0700  Tim May  wrote:
>
>> >Where's Toto?
>>
>> Toto has been bombing us for weeks. Or did you think "Linda Reed" is really
>> a woman, rather than a small dog?
>
>Shit!  There goes that fantasy!  For weeks I've dreamt about how kewl
>it would be to fuck a female cypherpunk.
>
>I guess I'll have to become a fed... at least I can fuck Jim Bell.
>
>
>gurlmonger
>
>
>
>
>
>

__________________________________________________________________________
    go not unto usenet for advice, for the inhabitants thereof will say:
      yes, and no, and maybe, and I don't know, and fuck-off.
_________________________________________________________________ attila__

    To be a ruler of men, you need at least 12 inches....
    There is no safety this side of the grave.  Never was; never will be.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: attila 
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 12:22:56 -0700 (PDT)
To: "S. M. Halloran" 
Subject: Re: MItSchill Millhouse Holler'in
In-Reply-To: <199807281629.TAA25772@ankara.192.168.3.5>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Tue, 28 Jul 1998, S. M. Halloran wrote:

    [smoke the balderdash]
>
>I really am enjoying this.  I had apparently a great deal of spare time in 
>the dog days of summer to humor the paranoids of the list although I was 
>rather dreading the consequences.
>
    	are you paranoid?  "dread" is a contributing factor to paranoia.

	dog days of summer --are you nuts? or just referring to Toto again?

>*** Object Lesson:  NEVER ARGUE WITH AN INSANE INDIVIDUAL ***
>
	yes, I see you are arguing with yourself. how do you look in
	the mirror?  have you found the Mad Hatter and the gerrymanderer?
	if the gerrymanderer cuts your "table" in two, which half will
	you be?

	you did not learn the most important lesson of the series: you
	must resort to the state of "crazy" to avoid going "insane".
	they give the insane Haldol if they are lucky, a lobotomy if
	that doesnt settle them down --witness Ken Kesey's "Cuckoo".

>1. You can never come to a compromise or even win:  it requires that the 
>two sides be possessed of reason, and you have only half of what you need.
>
	you got that one right! why dont you have _any_ reason for your
	intransigence?

	is it true you're several cards short of a full deck? and, there
	was some question as to your response to: "...and you said the
	last time you beat your wife was last Saturday?"

>2. There is a risk that you just might start believing what that 
>individual believes, especially when you start conceding small points that 
>appear to be the truth.  (Don't be fooled.)
>
	are you trying to imply that small lies are the foundation
	blocks of great truths?

	cowardly.  see Dorothy for counseling.

	great truths are built on small truths and fallacies are destroyed
 	with small lies that the little boy in Holland did not cover with
	his finger.

>3. It reduces you to a less dignified state before your peers.  And 
>appearance is everything.  Remember:  Style, not substance.  Form, not 
>structure.
>
	aaahh, I see you are the emporer with your new clothes!

>
>While in substance it is generally all the same, it still amazes
>the observer that one will find that smelling one's own is somehow less
>disgusting than smelling someone else's.   --Anonymous
>
    a disgusting comment which fits a research (bio)chemist in Turkey
    where birth control reminds me of:

   	the father of the bride, who was marrying a Turk, told her that
	she was not required to submit to the Turkish indecencies, and
	if her about to be husband told her to "roll over", she should
	refuse.

	everything was fine for about a year until one night the husband
	told her to "roll over" --she refused; and when questioned, she
	told him what her father had said. his reply was quite simple:
	"but you do wish to become pregnant, dont you?"

__________________________________________________________________________

    To be a ruler of men, you need at least 12 inches....

_________________________________________________________________ attila__






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "S. M. Halloran" 
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 09:49:22 -0700 (PDT)
To: attila 
Subject: Re: FDR
In-Reply-To: <199807271446.RAA18652@ankara.192.168.3.5>
Message-ID: <199807281533.SAA25475@ankara.192.168.3.5>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Someone assuming the personality of attila about yesterday (who is he 
today? ask him--you might like the answer) wrote while in a mental state 
that could be characterized as perceiving reality for only the very 
briefest of moments:

[humongous snip of recycled rumors, shameless fabrications, hypocritical 
innuendo, outright slander, and maybe a paucity of conceded-by-all-
including-the-man-himself historical fact]

>     there is no left and right; there is no moral government; it's all
>     about power and staying in power.  ever notice how reformers only
>     stay reformers until they need to run for reelection and the money
>     goes to those who play ball?

So learn to play the game.  Yeah, no one, even the icons we build, is a 
born angel.  There are relative levels of the good and bad in our society. 
Do you see the word "relative"?  It means no absolutes.  If you want 
absolutes, check out the Bible readers for whom every word is sacred.  One 
of my rotating tag lines talks (another Turkish proverb) addresses the 
very issue you bring up:  power.  I hope it shows up at the end of this 
message.

> 
>     the U.S. is already an oligarchy, next comes the plutocracy, followed
>     by the triumvirate, and then the emporer (maybe with clothes) -then
>     there will be a winnowing and anarchy followed by tribal states. welcome
>     to history, but few will live to see it run its course --America, the
>     universally hated, will be the first to be plowed under when she can
>     no longer bully or buy the -pax americanus-. and the men in power know
>     that a hungry disorganized populace can be subjugated by a well fed
>     army.

Well, that's what we call human history.  Nations and empires rise and 
fall, birth and death, a natural progression.  The only thing you need 
worry about while living in this kennel called the planet Earth is to be 
top dog.

>     sorry, I really am crazy, but it's better to be crazy than insane.

You're sure about that, are you?


Mitch Halloran
Research (Bio)chemist
Duzen Laboratories Group
Ankara   TURKEY
mitch@duzen.com.tr

A woman without a husband is like a horse without reins.   --Turkish proverb





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "S. M. Halloran" 
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 10:33:21 -0700 (PDT)
To: lreed@west.cscwc.pima.edu
Subject: Re: MItSchill Millhouse Holler'in
In-Reply-To: <009C9CD9.EB1F5DC0.23@west.cscwc.pima.edu>
Message-ID: <199807281629.TAA25772@ankara.192.168.3.5>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Someone having looked over the shoulder of one Linda Reed--PCC West Campus 
CSC, getting her password, and then using her mail account, drooled with 
paralytic tongue as follos:

>   ReVisionIst, to me, indicates someone who takes another look
> at what was previously seen with the aid of colour-glossy photos
> and pie-charts provided by the people who threatened to imprison
> your parents if they failed to send you to government-sponsered
> IndoctrinationCamps justified under the ruse of FreeEducation,
> which sometimes seem mostly geared for reinforcing in our minds
> how lucky we are to live in a country where the government is
> kind enough to provide us with FreeIncomeTaxReturnForms.

What color are your glossy glasses, by the way?

In addition to "FreeIncomeTaxReturnForms", they also let me urinate in the 
national forests too.

>  
>   As far as Roosevelt, or anyone else, being "the greatest
> President" of any era, it would be more accurate to describe
> their being the GreatestBullShitter of the era, or of having
> the GreatestAdvertising/SpinDoctor/PoliticalThugs of the era.

Doesn't that count for something?  Be all you can be, right?  Excellence 
in being immoral is certainly better than being mediocre at being immoral.

>   It is a matter of speculation to what extent Roosevelt's 
> actions were responsible for the recovery of the American
> economy after the collapse of the banking sector, but it is 
> a matter of *fact*, supported by the testimony of even those
> who were part of FDR's political entourage, that Roosevelt
> took steps to ensure the *complete* collapse of America's
> financial institutions while Hoover was still President,
> in order to put himself in a position to extort as much
> money and power as possible out of Congress. 

Is this sort of like Reagan arranging with the Iranians that the Tehran 52 
could come home for Christmas, but not before?

And while having mentioned the cheese head, could you possibly do a piece 
on Reagan, by the way?  Now *that* is something I could enjoy reading.  
And really let loose with the prose, if you please:  the more insane, the 
more tangential, the better.

>   Perhaps the massive suffering and financial losses that
> he caused in his power-grab might be justified as being
> 'for the greater good,' except that, had he used his position
> as President-elect to help restore confidence in the economy,
> instead of destroying it, America would not have required
> nearly as much 'saving' as it subsequently needed.

Well, the implementation never really does live up to the grand design 
now, does it?  Ask any computer programmer here on this list.

>   It is a shame that I had not been born in an age when I
> could have run for President against Roosevelt, and won.

It is a shame that we'll all just have to endure.

>   Had I done so, then I, like FDR, would have granted 
> myself a license to print money, and I also would have
> spent three times as much of the taxpayer's money as the
> previous 31 Presidents, combined, but *I* would have spent
> it all on beer and scotch, thus resurrecting the American
> economy without creating a HugeGovernmentMonster filled
> with political patronage appointees and employees who I
> had bought and owned with imaginary money that taxpayers
> would be responsible for repaying.

Maybe you're not so crazy after all.  You know, it's not too late to enter 
the race for 2000.  It's a good year to start on, and because of your 
intimate connections with people who are information technology-aware, you 
could make some programmers fabulously wealthy by scamming people on the 
Y2K problem.

>   Also, being drunk all of the time, there would have been
> little chance of me turning America into a PlannedSociety
> via a New Deal in which all of the cards being dealt were 
> Red.

US Grant was also a lush.  How prosperous were those times when he could 
pick himself off the floor?

> ICould'aBeenAContend'aMonger
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I really am enjoying this.  I had apparently a great deal of spare time in 
the dog days of summer to humor the paranoids of the list although I was 
rather dreading the consequences.

*** Object Lesson:  NEVER ARGUE WITH AN INSANE INDIVIDUAL ***

1. You can never come to a compromise or even win:  it requires that the 
two sides be possessed of reason, and you have only half of what you need.

2. There is a risk that you just might start believing what that 
individual believes, especially when you start conceding small points that 
appear to be the truth.  (Don't be fooled.)

3. It reduces you to a less dignified state before your peers.  And 
appearance is everything.  Remember:  Style, not substance.  Form, not 
structure.


Mitch Halloran
Research (Bio)chemist
Duzen Laboratories Group
Ankara   TURKEY
mitch@duzen.com.tr

While in substance it is generally all the same, it still amazes
the observer that one will find that smelling one's own is somehow less
disgusting than smelling someone else's.   --Anonymous





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: attila 
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 14:42:13 -0700 (PDT)
To: "S. M. Halloran" 
Subject: and the number of the beast is....
In-Reply-To: <199807281629.TAA25772@ankara.192.168.3.5>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



see: http://cgi.pathfinder.com/netly/0,2326,201980727-14191,00.html

Paul may be a kook to some, but he has the courage to stand against 
the forces who wish to take all our liberties --or should I say, those
few we have been permitted to keep.

Is it only a coincidence that the Social Security Admistration published 
the new requirements for the national ID in Section 666 of the code?

   "...and I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat 
on him was Death, and Hell followed with him." [RV 6-8]

   "and he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond,
to receive a markin  their right hand, or in their foreheads; [Rv13-16]
   "and that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the 
name of the beast, or the number of his name; [Rv13-17]
   "Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of 
the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six Hundred 
threescore and six" [Rv13-18]

    OK, Mitch, it says it all in Revelation --and it is happening. See
    the article on defending yourself from Federal conspiracy charges
    which was posted to the list a few minutes ago by anonymous.

    I always define conspiracy as three guys getting drunk at a bar
    while discussing the idea of robbing the bank across the street.
    one passes out and the other two go across the street and attempt
    to rob the bank; all three are tried and convicted: two for robbing
    the bank; and three for conspiracy to rob the bank.

    so, be careful who you associate with; in Turkey you just might get
    rolled over....

	attila out...   one more time.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Jean-Francois Avon" 
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 19:35:02 -0700 (PDT)
To: "Cypherpunks" 
Subject: Re: Fw: 1998-07-28 VP Statement on the Growing Digital Divide
Message-ID: <199807290250.WAA11287@cti06.citenet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Wed, 29 Jul 98 01:19:56 -0000 (DST), kryz wrote:


>>                      Office of the Vice President
>> ________________________________________________________________________
>> For Immediate Release                                      July 28, 1998
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>                     STATEMENT BY VICE PRESIDENT GORE 
>>                  ON DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE REPORT ABOUT
>>                        THE GROWING DIGITAL DIVIDE

>>  The data shows that, although many more Americans now own computers,
>> minorities and low-income households are still far less likely to have
>> personal computers or on-line access to the Internet than white or more
>> affluent households.

Geee... who would have suspected that?!?

>> and Internet access -- with the deepest discounts going to the poorest
>> urban and rural schools.

> 
>>  In short, the E-Rate program will enable all of our children to mine
>> the riches

Yeah, mine the rich, just like "milk the cows" ...

>> will have access to the same universe of knowledge as a child in the
>> most affluent suburb.

But what about the child of the rich that got just a little less rich for 
making the unrich richer and by being unrich, cannot make or affort the 
latest "save the world gizmo" who would have made us all more richer?

>>  Now is the time to bridge the digital divide, prevent those who can
>> benefit the most from falling through the net, and move forward with the

Three cheers for Komrad Gore!

Ciao

JFA



 " There can be no compromise on basic principles. There can be no compromise on moral issues. There can be no compromise on matters of knowledge, of truth, of rational conviction." -Ayn Rand


"The government has no source of revenue, except the taxes paid by the producers.  To free itself -for a while- from the limits set by reality, the government initiates a credit con game on a scale which the private manipulator could not dream of.  It borrows money from you today, which is to be repaid with money it will borrow from you day after tomorrow, and so on.  This is known as "deficit financing."  It is made possible by the fact that the government cuts the connection between goods and money.  It issues paper money, which is used as a claim check on actually existing goods-but that money is not backed by any goods, it is not backed by gold, it is backed by nothing.  It is a promissory note issued to you in exchange for your goods, to be paid by you (in the form of taxes) out of your future production." 
-Ayn Rand






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: BagbyHtSpg@aol.com
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 20:57:09 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: vehicle plate owner registration
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hi- whether the law has changed or not, what is the status of getting lists of
oregon license plate owner's perhaps from previous sources?  If this is either
very illegal, or no longer possible please let me know thank you.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Art1Carol" 
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 23:15:40 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: Spamming
Message-ID: <000101bdbad1$11dbf180$cd58fed0@default>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I do not spam! I don't think....The Government Lets it's post office's
around the country spam everyone every day, for the postage Don't we wish we
had a delete button for that?

As a matter of fact when Uncle Bill and the henchmen in Washington can
figure out how to make a profit off of email, "and they will" there won't be
any spamming laws because uncle Tax will be making a windfall of money.

I do believe each provider should have a block for unsolicited email and
instruct their customers how to use it, and if they don't, Spam Away...

The people who cry about spamming, don't know what they are going to create,
wait til they send thier loved ones an email and get charged for it, then
they'll wish they would have shut up and used the delete button....Thanks
Art smith







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@nsm.htp.org
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 21:45:30 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: none
Message-ID: <19980729044501.314.qmail@nsm.htp.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


BagbyHtSpg@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Hi- whether the law has changed or not, what is the status of getting lists of
> oregon license plate owner's perhaps from previous sources?  If this is either
> very illegal, or no longer possible please let me know thank you.

Sure, no problem. Just send fifty bucks per plate, money orders only 
(do not fill in the "pay to the order of" part) to me, Sammy, at:

Oregon State Penitentiary
2004 Coastal Hwy.
Portland, Oregon 89002
Attn: Sammy Polinski A 44E52J (Block 9)

That's $50.00 per address/plate, no questions asked. Nice doin business withdya.

Sammy





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Richard Storey 
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 05:47:38 -0700 (PDT)
To: Mark Hedges 
Message-ID: <35BF1A96.BC2DBCF5@earthlink.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I remember discussing the changes with a friend around 1991. At the time
I was reading the changes noted to the law in IRS publication no. 17. I
believe it is also noted on Form 1040 (look in the area used for
children's SSN, it should be ref. in the instructions). Between the two
of these, you should get a pointer to the code, and all of these are
available online. The IRS is the only agency, that I have know, of using
this law and, again, I think that congress made it law c. '91.

Richard Storey

Mark Hedges wrote:
> 
> Could someone kindly point toward an authoritative resource which proves
> assignment of SSN's to newborns is mandatory? Gratzi. -hedges-




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Bernardo B. Terrado" 
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 18:20:10 -0700 (PDT)
To: kryz 
Subject: Re: Rinda Leed
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


What the?!?!

I'm amazed, this site is not only about "encrypt...." but for the creep
also!?

===============================================================================
You give the words  you have spoken,
   it is not lended and are not taken back.
It is like what The Corrs sung "...your forgiven not forgotten...."

bbt@mudspring.uplb.edu.ph
bbt@peak-two.uplb.edu.ph
metaphone@altavista.net

On Wed, 29 Jul 1998, kryz wrote:

> Guys (and Girls),
> Not looking OverShoulder but BetweenLegs (both "TM") I found out (through
> European North-Sea Channel) that Rinda Leed aka Linda Reed is suffering a
> severe form of Post-Menstruation-Disorder.
> Also her Labia Majora are inflamed and bleedy so she can't sit on her
> keyboard without clottering it while typing.
> FDR... Fucking De Republic?
> Let's pray for Hur.
> 
> 
> Chris Harwig
> Nieuwegein, United Netherlands
> 
> 
> 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nulo66@interaktiv.design.no
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 00:54:47 -0700 (PDT)
To: nulo66@interaktiv.design.no
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199807292318UAA12018@127.70.34.15>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




They're Young !
They're Fresh !
They're Beautiful !
They're L I V E !!!

And They are yours FREE for 1 week.


Stop by and take a look:

http://207.212.128.4/newteenpics/xxxteen/enter.html










From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mok-Kong Shen 
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 01:01:46 -0700 (PDT)
To: David Honig 
Subject: Re: encrypted FM radio hiss
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980727110437.007b8100@m7.sprynet.com>
Message-ID: <35BED6DF.F2EF9BC5@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


David Honig wrote:
> 
> At 10:40 AM 7/28/98 +0100, Mok-Kong Shen wrote:
> >David Honig wrote:
> >
> >> The output of a good block cipher in feedback mode will pass Diehard tests,
> >> though it is not crypto-secure.
> >
> >I often see the phrase 'pass Diehard test' though I don't see from
> >the documents of Diehard how to evaluate the volumenous printout
> >of Diehard to say exactly whether the test is passed or not. Furthermore
> >the component asc2bin.exe of Diehard is buggy.

> 
> My rough understanding: the 'P' value is a measure on the hypothesis that
> the test sample is a truly random sample, where truly random is defined by
> the expected
> statistical properties being measured.  Eg in 100 bits you expect to find
> 50 1's;
> if you count 48, is your 100-bit sample consistant with it being
> unpredictable?

My concrete problem is: With the bunch of p-values how does one
(in accordance with the intention of the designer of the package)
go about to determine that the test is passed at a certain confidence
level. I don't see anything in the documents instructing the user
to do this. Maybe I indeed missed something. Please point that out
in this case.

M. K. Shen




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 10:45:32 -0700 (PDT)
To: Mok-Kong Shen 
Subject: Re: encrypted FM radio hiss
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980727110437.007b8100@m7.sprynet.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980729104423.007c3780@m7.sprynet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 10:01 AM 7/29/98 +0100, Mok-Kong Shen wrote:
>
>My concrete problem is: With the bunch of p-values how does one
>(in accordance with the intention of the designer of the package)
>go about to determine that the test is passed at a certain confidence
>level. I don't see anything in the documents instructing the user
>to do this. Maybe I indeed missed something. Please point that out
>in this case.
>
>M. K. Shen

I don't believe the depth of info you want is in Marsaglia's distribution
notes.
You want to talk to a real statistician...





honig@alum.mit.edu

   "Speech is not protected simply because it is written in a language"	
	Federal Misjudge Gwin on the Bernstein Case









From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Kurt Wolter 
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 09:42:41 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Free NNTP server question...
Message-ID: <35BF528E.E3912B86@rths.rochelle.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hi cypherpunks,

I grabbed your email address of an html posting of this newsgroup - in
other words, your my randomly selected answer person(s).

My question:  My isp doesn't have an NNTP Server, but I'm under the
impression that I can use a "free" news server somehow.  I need to be
pointed in the direction of how to set up news with a server other than
my isp.

Thanks,

serpent@rths.rochelle.net





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED/EUREKA! 
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 07:43:49 -0700 (PDT)
To: All Eureka/Stuffed Subscribers: ;
Subject: My hubby smears curry on my breasts/17in willy too heavy to carry
Message-ID: <19980729122608.6650.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Welcome to  today's  issue of Stuffed. To read it you should
click on the URL below.  If it is not made clickable by your
email program  you will need to  use your mouse to highlight
the line,  copy it and then paste it into your browser (then
press Return).

http://stuffed.net/98/7/29/

If you  have an email program that can display web pages you
will find today's front cover should have already been disp-
layed and can be clicked on to take you straight to Stuffed.

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: CTIA Daily News 
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 11:18:36 -0700 (PDT)
To: CTIA Daily News 
Subject: CTIA Daily News from WOW-COM - July 29, 1998
Message-ID: <199807291804.NAA26214@mailstrom.revnet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




==========================================
Welcome to today's edition of the CTIA Daily News
from WOW-COM.  Please click on the icon / attachment
for the most important news in wireless communications today.

A new multi-billion dollar industry is here! 
Be at CTIA's WIRELESS I.T. '98
where personal computing and communications converge!

Don't Miss Your Chance -- October 12-14, 1998
Bally's Las Vegas, Las Vegas, NV

For more information, visit http://www.wirelessit.com 
===========================================
 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Richard Storey 
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 10:05:21 -0700 (PDT)
To: Jim Gillogly 
Message-ID: <35BF56FA.31872612@earthlink.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Jim Gillogly wrote:
> 
> However, SSN abuse seems like pretty thin [ice?] grounds, and not specifically attributable to the current President.
>         Jim Gillogly


Yes, perjury, conspiracy, and other possible felonies seem to be much
more in evidence--for now.

Richard Storey




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 15:38:08 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Amused but still looking for...
Message-ID: <35BFA4BF.2A17@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I love the SPACE ALIENS stuff : it's like the X-files on a druggie's
version of a Long Island Iced Tea. The politics are agreeable and
predictable. The up-to-the-minute news and the entertainment is fun but
there's really not much that is technical happening here.

Is there a coderpunks mail archive available anywhere? The URL that I've
found has been down for too long.

How about a list of ongoing projects?

When is the next CP meeting?

Mike

"Just because a taste of freedom made you lose your lunch doesn't mean
it should be removed from the menu."




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 23:45:25 -0700 (PDT)
To: David Honig 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980729164034.008dc100@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 11:04 AM 7/27/98 -0700, David Honig wrote, about (Real, not Pseudo) RNGs:
>Poor RNG ----> XOR ----> BlockCipher ----> improved RNG?
>                 ^                    |
>                 |____________________|
>The output of a good block cipher in feedback mode will pass Diehard tests,
>though it is not crypto-secure.
>From an information theoretic perspective, in the above scheme, you are
>slowly adding entropy to the output stream, at a rate determined by the
>actual number of bits/iteration and the bits/symbol of your poor random
>numbers.

It's an interesting problem, and I doubt there's a consensus on strength,
in particular, on how much randomness is left after you take a
random sample out of the system.  I'd feel much better if you
also ran the output through a keyed hash before giving it to anyone
(e.g. run pairs or triples of 64-bit blocks plus a private salt through MD5.)
With a perfectly strong RNG, the output should also be perfectly strong,
though with a weak RNG, the block cypher does add some correlation.

You definitely should trash the initial outputs, until you've added
enough bits of real randomness that the block chaining step has
probably accumulated a whole block's worth of randomness.
Otherwise, the first round of block cypher is an ECB on a small
set of input data (e.g. 64 possible values of one 1 and 63 0s
fed into a DES cracker.)


				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 14:16:26 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: NSA Losing Crypto Experts
Message-ID: <199807292116.RAA13371@camel14.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


>From Government Executive, August, 1998:

The National Security Agency is losing ground in the fight
to keep hard-to-find cryptography experts from being lured
to greener pastures.

By Richard Lardner

Price Waterhouse didn't become a force in the consulting
world by ignoring market trends. So it was no surprise when
the firm decided to expand its information security
operation. After all, the Internet has completely changed
the way business is done: Paper is out, electrons are in.
But just as electronic commerce is skyrocketing, so too are
the odds that sensitive corporate information might be
tampered with as it travels through cyberspace. 

With the private sector beginning to recognize that the
digital door swings both ways, there's growing demand for
the "risk management" services Price Waterhouse and other
companies are offering to help keep the hackers at bay. To
snare these potential clients, the company needed to hire
hundreds of information technology professionals. Trouble
is, information protection may be a huge growth area, but
the talent pool is mighty shallow. 

So officials at Price Waterhouse did what many other
commercial enterprises have done, and continue to do. They
targeted a group of employees at the Defense Department's
secretive National Security Agency, where thousands of the
federal government's best and brightest spend their days
eavesdropping on other countries while at the same time
ensuring that U.S. information networks are secure. Because
of the highly sensitive missions the agency performs,
companies like Price Waterhouse know they are getting
employees who are extremely good at what they do and are
solid citizens too-NSA is picky about whom it hires and
conducts thorough background investigations. 

Full text:

   http://www.jya.com/nsa-loss.htm





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: CLCTCHR@aol.com
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 18:07:01 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: MORE!!!!
Message-ID: <407bc87c.35bfc6d9@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


More!




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Babybee390@aol.com
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 18:25:14 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: vinyl stickers
Message-ID: <57a0eea8.35bfcae7@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


do you have music vinyl stickers , if so , could i get them wholesale?





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 16:05:31 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Spamming
Message-ID: <19980729230502.23037.qmail@nsm.htp.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Wed, 29 Jul 1998, Art1Carol wrote:

> 
> I do not spam! I don't think....The Government Lets it's post office's
> around the country spam everyone every day, for the postage Don't we wish we
> had a delete button for that?

Hello, McFly? Anybody home? McFly!

When somebody sends mail through the postal service, they pay postage. It
costs the recipient nothing and, if anything, is actually useful for
getting a fire started in the winter. When somebody spams through the
Internet, they pay virtually nothing, yet everybody else gets to pay to
deliver, store, and filter the shit. Then there are the morons who connect
to other peoples' machines and use those to relay mail; that's quite
obviously theft.

Take your spam, for instance. You go out and pay MSN a bit of money for
some account. You mail the Cypherpunks list with your ad for porn or
whatever it was. The list operators then have to deliver it to a few
thousand people. You steal the resources of the CDR operators to deliver
it. You steal the resources of the Cypherpunks to store it. You steal CPU
time all over the place to filter it. You steal bandwidth all over the
place to deliver it.

This is obvious to anybody with more than a few dozen brain cells to rub
together. Then again, this kind of grammatically-challenged and logically
invalid garbage is what I've come to expect from users of lame services
like AOL, Prodigy, MSN, Hotmail, et al. It goes with the territory for
sites which cater to the lowest common denominator.

> I do believe each provider should have a block for unsolicited email and
> instruct their customers how to use it, and if they don't, Spam Away...

Right, and they still get to pay for the transmission, temporary storage,
filtering, etc.

Let's see. Say I filter it. My ISP gets the spam. It has to store it. I
log into the POP3 server to get my mail. I have to transfer it. After it's
been stored on the ISP for quite a while, after it's been transmitted,
after it's eaten my bandwidth, and after I've waited around for it to
transfer, I have to blow CPU time to filter it. 

Yeah, like in postal junk mail the sender is really the one paying, not
the recipient. 

Your clue check has bounced.

[Remainder of drivel snipped.]

Copy to MSN. Copy to the Cypherpunks list for the other lamers who like to
spam it.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 00:22:20 -0700 (PDT)
To: Michael Motyka 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980730002024.0095d100@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 03:39 PM 7/29/98 -0700, Michael Motyka wrote:
>Is there a coderpunks mail archive available anywhere? The URL that I've
>found has been down for too long.
>
>How about a list of ongoing projects?
>
>When is the next CP meeting?

Meetings are the second Saturday of the month (for the Bay Area).
Directions and agenda will be posted early next week;
volunteers for talks are always welcome.

				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ulf@fitug.de (Ulf =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=F6ller?=)
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 16:18:21 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: cryptographic signatures
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


A few months ago I posted statistics of the types of digital
signatures used on Usenet and in mailings lists. It turns out that the
moderators' signatures in a moderated newsgroup were tabulated for the
individual posters, resulting in somewhat too big figures for one
particular version of PGP.

Here are the current figures:

   56.6% PGP 2.*
   33.7% PGP 5.*
    3.6% other OpenPGP implementations
    4.0% S/MIME

The sample contains 249 unique (e-mail address, software version)
pairs taken from various international and local newsgroups and
mailing lists that happen to be available in my news spool (consisting
of some 24,000 articles). Perhaps someone with a full newsfeed
-- whatever that is in these days -- would like to try the same?

These are the PGP Version headers:

     55	2.6.2
     24	2.6.3i
     19	2.6.3ia
     17	PGPfreeware 5.5.3i for non-commercial use 
     15	2.6.3in
     14	PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0
     10	PGP for Personal Privacy 5.5.3
      9	2.6.3a
      8	PGPfreeware 5.0i for non-commercial use
      7	PGP 5.5.5
      6	2.6.2i
      4	PGP for Personal Privacy 5.5.5
      4	2.6.3a-sha1
      3	PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0.1iRu
      3	PGP for Business Security 5.5
      3	2.6.3
      2	PGPfreeware 5.5.5 for non-commercial use 
      2	PGPfreeware 5.5.3i for non-commercial use
      2	PGP for Business Security 5.5.6
      2	PGP for Business Security 5.5.2
      2	PGP Cyber-Knights Templar build 5.5.3ckt
      2	GNUPG v0.3.1 (GNU/Linux)
      2	GNUPG v0.3.0 (GNU/Linux)
      2	CTCDOS 0.1
      1	Version 2.0.0
      1	PGPfreeware 5.5.3i for non-commercial use 
      1	PGPfreeware 5.5.3 for non-commercial use 
      1	PGPfreeware 5.5.2 for non-commercial use 
      1	PGPfreeware 5.0 for non-commercial use 
      1	PGP for Personal Privacy 5.5
      1	PGP 5.5.3  It's not only for cool looking messages!
      1	PGP 5.0i
      1	PGP 5.0
      1	GNUPG v0.3.2a (GNU/Linux)
      1	GNUPG v0.3.2 (GNU/Linux)
      1	GNUPG v0.3.1a (GNU/Linux)
      1	4.0 Business Edition
      1	2.7.1
      1	2.7
      1	2.6.i
      1	2.6.3uin
      1	2.6.1
      1	2.6




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: quickfacts9@hotmail.com
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 06:17:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: They Can Even Steal Your Identity!
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 11:23:46 -0700 (PDT)
To: Mok-Kong Shen 
Subject: Re: encrypted FM radio hiss
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980727110437.007b8100@m7.sprynet.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980730093354.007bc4d0@m7.sprynet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 02:11 PM 7/30/98 +0100, Mok-Kong Shen wrote:
>David Honig wrote:
>
>> I don't believe the depth of info you want is in Marsaglia's distribution
>> notes.
>> You want to talk to a real statistician...
>
>It may be of some interest for you to know that the designer of
>Diehard has the rather uncommon habit of never answering mails with 
>questions on his package. A bug report of mine was without answer. 
>Later I learned that others have had the same experience.
>
>M. K. Shen

Hmm.  What packages or tests do any experimentalists out there use 
for entropy measurements?  

I've used Diehard.  Also I look at compressability (gzip).  I've found
spectrogramming utilities.  I think Walker has a utility, not yet looked at.




honig@alum.mit.edu

   "Speech is not protected simply because it is written in a language"	
	Federal Misjudge Gwin on the Bernstein Case









From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: CTIA Daily News 
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 13:35:06 -0700 (PDT)
To: CTIA Daily News 
Subject: CTIA Daily News from WOW-COM - July 30, 1998
Message-ID: <199807301716.MAA24997@mailstrom.revnet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




==========================================
Welcome to today's edition of the CTIA Daily News
from WOW-COM.  Please click on the icon / attachment
for the most important news in wireless communications today.

A new multi-billion dollar industry is here! 
Be at CTIA's WIRELESS I.T. '98
where personal computing and communications converge!

Don't Miss Your Chance -- October 12-14, 1998
Bally's Las Vegas, Las Vegas, NV

For more information, visit http://www.wirelessit.com 
===========================================
 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mok-Kong Shen 
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 05:11:58 -0700 (PDT)
To: David Honig 
Subject: Re: encrypted FM radio hiss
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980727110437.007b8100@m7.sprynet.com>
Message-ID: <35C06305.DE28A900@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


David Honig wrote:

> I don't believe the depth of info you want is in Marsaglia's distribution
> notes.
> You want to talk to a real statistician...

It may be of some interest for you to know that the designer of
Diehard has the rather uncommon habit of never answering mails with 
questions on his package. A bug report of mine was without answer. 
Later I learned that others have had the same experience.

M. K. Shen




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED/EUREKA! 
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 10:14:09 -0700 (PDT)
To: All Eureka/Stuffed Subscribers: ;
Subject: In and out brothel/My wife lays eggs like a chicken
Message-ID: <19980730151300.21245.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Welcome to  today's  issue of Stuffed. To read it you should
click on the URL below.  If it is not made clickable by your
email program  you will need to  use your mouse to highlight
the line,  copy it and then paste it into your browser (then
press Return).

http://stuffed.net/98/7/30/

If you  have an email program that can display web pages you
will find today's front cover should have already been disp-
layed and can be clicked on to take you straight to Stuffed.

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Reeza! 
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 17:51:37 -0700 (PDT)
To: CLCTCHR@aol.com
Subject: Re: MORE!!!!
In-Reply-To: <407bc87c.35bfc6d9@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980731003949.008bfc60@205.83.192.13>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 09:05 PM 29 07 98 EDT, CLCTCHR@aol.com wrote:
>More!
>

More What?

Stupidity?

Idiocy?

Spam?

Irrelevant posts with meaningless contextless drivelous foulness?

GO THE FUCK AWAY, ALL AOL'ers.
This list is not about 3l33tnEZZ, or being *K3WL*.

Reeza!




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Reeza! 
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 17:51:38 -0700 (PDT)
To: Babybee390@aol.com
Subject: Re: vinyl stickers
In-Reply-To: <57a0eea8.35bfcae7@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980731005235.008bfc60@205.83.192.13>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 09:22 PM 29 07 98 EDT, Babybee390@aol.com wrote:
>do you have music vinyl stickers , if so , could i get them wholesale?
>

This is not the first sticker request to be sent to the CypherPunks list.
Could you please tell us, where did you here about CypherPunks, and what
made you think we could help you with your sticker request?

This is only so we can serve you better,,,,,

Reeza!




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED/EUREKA! 
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 07:31:41 -0700 (PDT)
To: All Eureka/Stuffed Subscribers: ;
Subject: Better living through masterbation/Digestible Dildos
Message-ID: <19980731081100.3170.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Welcome to  today's  issue of Stuffed. To read it you should
click on the URL below.  If it is not made clickable by your
email program  you will need to  use your mouse to highlight
the line,  copy it and then paste it into your browser (then
press Return).

http://stuffed.net/98/7/31/

If you  have an email program that can display web pages you
will find today's front cover should have already been disp-
layed and can be clicked on to take you straight to Stuffed.

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: toto@fhouse.org
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 07:59:41 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: SECRET.AS7
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary..3994.1071713793.multipart/mixed"

--Boundary..3994.1071713793.multipart/mixed
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

                          *** The Fire House Inn ***
                                 Come visit us
                               Telnet: fhouse.org
                                WWW:  fhouse.org
                                  *********** 
SECRET.AS7


--Boundary..3994.1071713793.multipart/mixed
Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="bin00000.bin"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="bin00000.bin"
Content-Description: ""

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: toto@fhouse.org
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 08:05:01 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: TOP TEN1 / .hfx / PASSWORD: ultimatesecurity
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary..3994.1071713793.multipart/mixed"

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                          *** The Fire House Inn ***
                                 Come visit us
                               Telnet: fhouse.org
                                WWW:  fhouse.org
                                  *********** 
TOPTEN1.ASC


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 23:55:36 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Resources on how to track spammers
Message-ID: <199807310655.IAA08821@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


These are two address I thought might be useful.

This is a guide on tracking down real addresses in
usenet faked posts.  Once you find the real addresses or at least have a
couple good guesses on what provider they use reply to their message and
cc: it to the postmaster and technicle contact of all the ISP's you think
it might be.  They can use message ID's and logs to check where the message
originated from.

http://newdata.box.sk/neworder/harmless/GTMHH1-4.TXT


this is the same for forged e-mail.
http://newdata.box.sk/neworder/harmless/GTMHH1-5.TXT

The reason I'm sending this is because of the fact that I almost never get
spam.  When I do I respond quickly and appropriately and the spam dies out.
When I joined and then posted to this list I was flooded with mail.
Personally I this has to be one of the stupided lists to spam.  How many
technical peopl that are interested in crypto are really gaing to respond
to some of these stupid ads







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: toto@fhouse.org
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 08:06:23 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Pima Community College / PASSWORD: ibrokepgp
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary..3994.1071713793.multipart/mixed"

--Boundary..3994.1071713793.multipart/mixed
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

                          *** The Fire House Inn ***
                                 Come visit us
                               Telnet: fhouse.org
                                WWW:  fhouse.org
                                  *********** 
PIMA1.ASC


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 06:06:24 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Cracking DES 1-4
Message-ID: <199807311306.JAA24187@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


We offer Chapters 1-4 of EFF's "Cracking DES:"

     http://jya.com/cracking-des.htm  (110K + 9 images)

URLs to other parts welcomed.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 08:19:05 -0700 (PDT)
To: whitfield diffie 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Friday 7/31/98 8:23 AM

John Young

I am reading  parts of http://www.jya.com/cracking-des.htm#foreword.

Bill Goldrick and I talked on the phone several days ago.

Goldrick had been reading about Cracking DES at jya.com.

Goldrick reminded me that in the late 1980s that NSA employee Mark
Unkenholtz told me and others at Sandia that NSA had broken DES.

Unkenholtz is the 'Mark' mentioned at http://jya.com/da/whpda.htm 
Appendix S.

Amy Johnston, cc,  was Mark Unkenholtz's fiancee.  

I faxed the Hern DRAFT letter to her for reason that NSA did not have an
unclassified fax machine readily available.

For those who might want to get Sandia crypto history right   "The First
Ten Years of Public Key Cryptography," Proceedings of the IEEE, 76(5),
May 1988. referenced at  http://www.aci.net/kalliste/nukearse.htm,
Goldrick

1 was supervisor of Mark Schaefer who build the second CTBT seismic data
authenticator
http://jya.com/da/whpda.htm

I used Schaefer's TEMPEST design schematics.

2  supervised deployment of the seismic stations in Hamar Norway.  This
is detailed
in William Burrows book Deep Black.

3  supervised Jim Walkup who was responsible for placing the CTBT data
authenticator
described at  http://jya.com/da/whpda.htm in the field.

                  date: September 11, 1991

                    to: Bill Payne, 9236

                        [Signature]

                  from: James Walkup, 9233


               subject: DSVS authenticator records


4  handled recall of some CLASSIFIED algorithm eprom chips that somehow
made their
way into the field in 3.

NSA believes that the  STEP size and non-linear feedback function are
CLASSIFIED SECRET/NSI. http://jya.com/da/whpda.htm

  The NSA R register feedback function is classified. For each data bit
processed, both the   F and R registers are stepped multiple times. The
number of steps is classified.

But we ALL now know the CLASSIFIED SECRET/NSI value is 31.
http://jya.com/nsasuit.txt

5  rejected NSA employee Donald Simard's  http://jya.com/nsasuit.txt
order to deploy the classified algorithm.

Simard told Goldrick that NSA would DECLASSIFY Benincasa's algorithm
LATER.

Let's all hope for settlement of the unfortunate matter before it gets
WORSE.

I want to revise my book

http://www.apcatalog.com/cgi-bin/AP?ISBN=0125475705&LOCATION=US&FORM=FORM2

It has been over about 27 years since I directed any Ph.D. students

http://www-hto.usc.edu/software/seqaln/doc/html/gfsr.3.html     
http://www.friction-free-economy.com/
http://www.mhpcc.edu/general/john.html

Perhaps I should get back into the business of directing and
participating in Ph.D thesis work?  I have some GREAT Ph.D. thesis topic
ideas in the area of

  FORTH is applicable to hardware intensive projects    
  implemented by one, two, or three workers.  Robots,    
  computer numerical controlled machines, weapons    
  programmers, cryptographic processors, engine    
  controllers, unmanned observatories, computer hardware    
  debuggers, laser printer graphics controllers, video    
  games, work station device drivers, writing BASICs are    
  all candidates for FORTH software technology.  FORTH is    
  a one of the top choices for embedded controller    
  applications.   


Later
bill






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: beverly357@hotmail.com
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 07:34:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: World Record Sex!
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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[C] Copyright TCPS 1998














































From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: toto@fhouse.org
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 10:45:14 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: CC - SAHMD / Password: convectionalencryption
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

                          *** The Fire House Inn ***
                                 Come visit us
                               Telnet: fhouse.org
                                WWW:  fhouse.org
                                  *********** 
COCK1.ASC


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: toto@fhouse.org
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 10:58:22 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Secret Service With A Smile - SAHMD!!!
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


The 'Secret Service With A Smile' chapter of SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY
DRUGS!!! 
was sent to the CypherPunks Disturbed Male LISP as secret.as1 -->
secret.as7
earlier today. It is a DOS .prn file, which is the only type of copy I
could save
with the FAX software I am using.
I was forced to delete the original text file from the computer I was
using, but 
the Secret Service has copies of it, so anyone who wishes the original
text
file can contact:

United States Secret Service
Jeremy A.C. Sheridan
Special Agent
300 West Congress, Room 4V
Tucson, AZ 85701
Phone 520-670-4730
Fax 520-670-4826

Toto
~~~~
                          *** The Fire House Inn ***
                                 Come visit us
                               Telnet: fhouse.org
                                WWW:  fhouse.org
                                  *********** 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: toto@fhouse.org
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 11:07:04 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Top Ten - SAHMD!!!
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Top Ten Things You Don't Want To Tell
 The Secret Service When They Visit
 _____________________________
SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS!!!

10.  You're here about the VOICES, aren't you?
    They *told* me you were coming...

9. Look, pal, I don't even know who the President *was*...
  I mean...*is*...
  Uuhhh...is it 10:15 in DC yet?

8. Do either of you guys know where the 'yellow' wire goes?

7. The First Lady's butt looks pretty good through a 'scope', eh?

6. You must have me confused with my brother, MadDog...the *good* son...

5. Could you put this around my forearm, give it a twist, and then pull
   it really tight?
   Hey, don't bump the spoon!

4. *Which* death threat? Unless you're going to be more specific,
   you're just wasting my time and yours.

3. 'One Bullet, One Vote' bumperstickers are meant as *humor*?
   You're schitting me, right?

2. Next time you're guarding the President at a White House speech,
   do you think you could stand just a tad further to the left?

1. "Cuckoo-Cuckoo"
                          *** The Fire House Inn ***
                                 Come visit us
                               Telnet: fhouse.org
                                WWW:  fhouse.org
                                  *********** 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 11:13:25 -0700 (PDT)
To: tcmay@got.net
Subject: From: dac@zurich.ibm.com (Marc Dacier)
Message-ID: <35C20839.43A1@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Friday 7/31/98 11:40 AM

John Young

I am looking at http://www.jya.com/raid98.htm

Dacier asked me why NSA/Sandia was concerned about what
each bit in an executable image did when I was in his office in
Zurich in April 1997.

Spiking, of course.  A SECRET OTHER FUNCTION to a device.

http://caq.com/cryptogate  http://www.aci.net/kalliste/speccoll.htm

NSA/Sandia doesn't trust its own employees!  

On the other hand, NSA/Sandia employees don't trust NSA/Sandia either.

The REAL WORLD again.

IBM Zurich was BIG into Java.

Network World, July 20, 1998 page 6

  The incredible shrinking Java alliance

  By Chris Nerney and Andy Eddy

    A year ago there were four of them, members of a new alliance
  touting a potent new weapon designed to end Microsoft Corp.'s
  growing dominance in the computing industry.
    Now the Java Gang of Four is the Gang of Two and a Half.
    Java creator Sun Microsystems, Inc., of course, is still fully
  committed to the programming language, as is IBM. ...

Not looking good for Java future.

Java is similar to FORTH.  FORTH executes super-slow on high-level
in most machines.  About 10% of the speed of a compiled-language
program - such as Visual Basic.

Specialized Forth and Java machine can be made to run fast.
http://groucho.gsfc.nasa.gov/forth/ and http://www.ptsc.com/ 

But I am not confident Java or Forth machines are going anywhere.
May be hard to get parts in the future.  

But I'm confident about the 80C32 supply!
http://www.apcatalog.com/cgi-bin/AP?ISBN=0125475705&LOCATION=US&FORM=FORM2

Let's hope this UNFORTUNATE matter http://jya.com/whpfiles.htm gets
settled soon so that we can move on to constructive projects.

Later
bill


/\/\/\

Marc

Since I was working the OTHER SIDE of

  Recent Advances in Intrusion Detection 

for the FBI, I might be able to give a nice talk about what the US
government is REALLY UP TO on defeating intrusion detection!

I am not reading e-mail.

best
bill

Hi Matthias!


Counterfeiting Wiegand Wire Access Credentials
     
                                   Bill Payne
     
                                 October 16,1996
     
                                    Abstract
     
                  Wiegand wire access credentials are easy and
                  inexpensive to counterfeit.
     
        Access Control & Security Systems Integration magazine, October
        1996 [http://www/securitysolutions.com] published the article,
     
             Wiegand technology stands the test of time
     
             by PAUL J. BODELL, page 12
     
             Many card and reader manufacturers offer Wiegand (pronounced
             wee-gand) output.  However, only three companies in the
             world make Wiegand readers.  Sensor Engineering of Hamden
             Conn., holds the patent for Wiegand, and Sensor has licensed
             Cardkey of Simi Valley, Calif., and Doduco of Pforzheim,
             Germany, to manufacture Wiegand cards and readers. ...  A
             Wiegand output reader is not the same thing as a Wiegand
             reader,  and it is important to understand the differences.
     
                In brief, Wiegand reader use the Wiegand effect to
             translate card information around the patented Wiegand
             effect in which a segment of a specially treated wire
             generates an electronic pulse when subjected to a specific
             magnetic field.  If the pulse is generated when the wire is
             near a pick-up coil, the pulse can be detected by a circuit.
             Lining up several rows of wires and passing them by a cold
             would generate a series of pulses.  Lining up two rows of
             wires - calling on row "zero bits" and the other "one bits"
             - and passing them by two different coils would generate two
             series of pulses, or data bits.  These data bits can then be
             interpreted as binary data and used to control other
             devices.  If you seal the coils in a rugged housing with
             properly placed magnets, and LED and some simple circuitry,
             you have a Wiegand reader.  Carefully laminate the special
             wires in vinyl, and artwork, and hot-stamp a number on the
             vinyl, and you have a Wiegand card.
     
             IN THE BEGINNING
     
               Wiegand was first to introduce to the access control
             market in the late 1970s.  It was immediately successful
             because it filled the need for durable, secure card and
             reader technology.
               Embedded in the cards, Wiegand wires cannot be altered or
             duplicated. ...
     
        Bodell's Last statement is incorrect.
     
        Tasks for EASILY counterfeiting Wiegand wire cards are
     
        1    Locate the wires inside the card to read the 0s and 1s.
     
        2    Build an ACCEPTABLE copy of the card.
     
        Bodell's clear explanation of the working of a Wiegand card can
        be visualized
     
             zero row    |     |   |
     
             one row        |          |
     
             binary      0  1  0   0   1
             representation
     
        Solutions to Task 1
     
             A    X-ray the card
     
             B    MAGNI VIEW FILM,  Mylar film reads magnetic fields ...
                  Edmunds Scientific Company, catalog 16N1, page
                  205, C33,447  $11.75
     
        is placed over the top of the Wiegand card.
     
        COW MAGNET,  Cow magnetics allow farmers to trap metal in the
        stomachs of their cows.  Edmunds, page 204, C31,101 $10.75
        is placed under the card.
     
        Location of the wires is easily seen on the green film.
     
        Mark the position of the wires with a pen.
     
        Next chop the card vertically using a shear into about 80/1000s
        paper-match-sized strips.
     
        Don't worry about cutting a wire or two.
     
        Note that a 0 has the pen mark to the top.  A 1 has the pen mark
        at the bottom.
     
        Take a business card and layout the "paper match"-like strips to
        counterfeit the card number desired.
     
        Don't worry about spacing.  Wiegand output is self-clocking!
     
        Tape the "paper-match - like" strips to the business card.
     
        Only the FUNCTION of the card needs to be reproduced!
     
                                     History
     
        Breaking electronic locks was done as "work for others" at Sandia
     
        National Laboratories beginning in 1992 funded by the Federal
        Bureau of Investigation/Engineering Research Facility, Quantico,
        VA.
     
        The FBI opined that this work was SECRET/NATIONAL SECURITY
        INFORMATION.
     
        Details of the consequences of this work are covered in
     
             Fired Worker File Lawsuit Against Sandia
             Specialist Says He Balked When Lab Sought Electronic
             Picklock Software, Albuquer Journal, Sunday April 25, 1993
     
             State-sanctioned paranoia,  EE Times, January 22, 1996
     
             One man's battle,  EE Times, March 22, 1994
     
             Damn the torpedoes,  EE Times, June 6, 1994
     
             Protecting properly classified info,  EE Times, April 11,
             1994
     
             DOE to scrutinize fairness in old whistle-blower cases,
             Albuquerque Tribune, Nov 7 1995
     
             DOE boss accelerates whistle-blower protection,  Albuquerque
             Tribune, March 27, 1996
     
             DOE doesn't plan to compensate 'old' whistle-blowers with
             money, Albuquerque Tribune September 27, 199




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: CTIA Daily News 
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 10:48:06 -0700 (PDT)
To: CTIA Daily News 
Subject: CTIA Daily News from WOW-COM - July 31, 1998
Message-ID: <199807311730.MAA25935@mailstrom.revnet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




==========================================
Welcome to today's edition of the CTIA Daily News
from WOW-COM.  Please click on the icon / attachment
for the most important news in wireless communications today.

A new multi-billion dollar industry is here! 
Be at CTIA's WIRELESS I.T. '98
where personal computing and communications converge!

Don't Miss Your Chance -- October 12-14, 1998
Bally's Las Vegas, Las Vegas, NV

For more information, visit http://www.wirelessit.com 
===========================================
 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 13:54:05 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Refining entropy
In-Reply-To: <199807302045.WAA19934@replay.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980731134616.007c42d0@m7.sprynet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




This essay addresses the question, How can we improve the output of a bad
true RNG?  By "true RNG" I mean a source of unpredictability, which
necessarily derives from an analog measurement.  By "bad" RNG
I mean that its output does not carry one bit of information per binary
symbol.  This means that not all output symbols are equiprobable.  Methods
to improve various properties of RNGs are called conditioning algorithms.

I had begun by thinking that, since the output of a block cipher in
feedback mode (ie, a stream cipher) is uniformly distributed ("white") that
it would be sufficient conditioning to feed a bad RNG into a block cipher
with feedback.  Here, the bad RNG would kick the cipher out of the fixed,
but key-dependant, sequence it would otherwise generate.

But it bothered me that I was producing more apparently-random bits than I
actually had negentropy.

On cypherpunks, Bill Stewart mentioned using hashes instead of ciphers.  A
hash is like a cipher in that
changing any input or key bit changes the  output unpredictably, but a hash
is irreversible because there are fewer output bits than input bits.    The
simplest hash is a one-bit parity; MD5
is a more expensive keyed hashing function used for message authentication.

Thinking about a hash instead of a cipher was interesting because now we
reduce the number of output bits, which if done right, could improve the
information carried by each binary digit.  We take the MAC of an imperfect
random number and toss the original random, retaining the MAC as our better
random value.

Can we get an analytic handle on this?

Let's take Mr. Shannon's measure of information over a discrete alphabet.
The average amount of information per symbol is the (negation of the) sum
of the probabilities of each symbol times the log base 2 of that probability.

If we have two symbols, A and B, and each occurs half the time, we have 
	1/2 * log (1/2) + 1/2 * log(1/2) = -1 = 1 bit, which is what we expect.

If symbol A occurs, say, 3 times more often than B, we get:
	3/4* log(3/4) + 1/4*log(1/4) = 3/4(log 3 - 2) + -2/4 = 3/4 log 3 - 6/4 -
2/4 = 3/4 log 3 - 2 = 
	2- 3/4*log 3 bits/symbol after handling the minus sign.  This is less than
the optimum 1 bit/symbol, achieved when the symbols are equiprobable as above.

So now we have demonstrated how to use Shannon to measure the actual
entropy carried by each imperfectly random symbol. We now use this to
measure the result of XORing two such imperfect values.

We continue to use the imperfect RNG source where A occurs 3/4 time, B
occurs 1/4 time.  We take 
two of these badbits and XOR them: 
A.A=A, 
A.B=B, 
B.A=B, 
B.B=A.

We now compute the liklihood of each output symbol: 

A.A	3/4 * 3/4 = 9/16	(A)
A.B	3/4 * 1/4 = 3/16	(B)
B.A	1/4 * 3/4 = 3/16	(B)
B.B	1/4 * 1/4 =1/16	(A)

So the output has symbol A 10/16 of the time, and B 6/16 of the time.  The
difference in frequency has decreased; the distribution becomes more
uniform, which means that the information content of the output has
increased.  The information content of the whole system can only decrease;
but if you destroy the inputs
the output carries their entropy.
	
The exact amount of information per symbol in the 10:6 distribution is 
	10/16 * log(10/16) + 6/16 * log(6/16) = 10/16 * (log10 - 4) + 6/16*(log6
-4) = 
	10/16 log 10 - 40/16 + 6/16 log 6 - 24/16 = 
	10/16 log 10 + 6/16 log 6 - 4 the negative of which is
	4 - (10log 10 + 6 log 6) / 16
	Which is less than 1 but more than the content of each of the 2 bits we
started with.

Intuitively, we have gone from this distribution:
 
----
------------

crossed with itself, yields this distribution of states: 

-
---
---
---------

which when collapsed yields this: 

------
----------


So: we can use Shannon's analytic measure to look at entropy collection
through
a combination of imperfect input bits.  It shows us that we'll never get
perfectly uniformly 
distributed symbols by combining arbitrary quantities of nonuniformly
distributed symbols, but we can get arbitrarily close.  All we need is more
input.
Quantity vs. quality.

A video ADC acquires say 8 bits resolution at 4 msamples/sec.  This might
condense down to 
4 Mbits/sec true negentropy, which is about half the rate of regular Ethernet.



honig@alum.mit.edu

   "Speech is not protected simply because it is written in a language"	
	Federal Misjudge Gwin on the Bernstein Case









From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: attila 
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 07:52:26 -0700 (PDT)
To: Declan McCullagh 
Subject: Re: FC: Libertarian Party asks for Clinton impeachment
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Fri, 31 Jul 1998, Declan McCullagh wrote:

>
>   Libertarians to Congress: Impeach Clinton for Bad Net Policy
>   By Declan McCullagh
>
>   [snip]
>

	and then they wonder why they received less than 1% of the
	vote in '96.

	good enough reasons if they do the trick, but I would rather
	they not impeach him; an impeachment hearing will put the
	ice pack on the market... and by the time the Senate can
	get around to finishing the deed, Clinton will have turned
	the government over to FEMA for some flim-flam excuse. better
	start getting ready to quarter the UN barbarian troops in
	your house.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 12:09:45 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Cracking DES 9-12
Message-ID: <199807311909.PAA21158@camel7.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


We've added Chapters 9-12, same URL:

    http://jya.com/cracking-des.htm  (146K + 9 images)

No prohibited code, yet.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED/EUREKA! 
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 01:32:15 -0700 (PDT)
To: All Eureka/Stuffed Subscribers: ;
Subject: Better living through masterbation/Digestible Dildos
Message-ID: <19980731151300.12433.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Welcome to  today's  issue of Stuffed. To read it you should
click on the URL below.  If it is not made clickable by your
email program  you will need to  use your mouse to highlight
the line,  copy it and then paste it into your browser (then
press Return).

http://stuffed.net/98/7/31/

If you  have an email program that can display web pages you
will find today's front cover should have already been disp-
layed and can be clicked on to take you straight to Stuffed.

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Richard Storey 
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 12:27:43 -0700 (PDT)
To: Tim May 
Subject: Re: Comments on this Pentagon opinion...not a new debate
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <35C21B6F.449E12C1@earthlink.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Tim May wrote:
> 
> At 10:01 AM -0700 7/31/98, Harvey Rook (Exchange) wrote:

[...body of text snipped...]
> 
> The latest crypto proposals have brought nothing new to the debate.

Indeed.

It strikes me as alarming at times, when considering the condition of
civil liberties in this country and just how close government tries to
shave off freedoms that are not *explicit* in the bill of rights, how
poorer our liberties would be defended without those ten, basic
amendments; and further, that they were added as an after thought,
ridiculed by many, demanded by some, but they have proven to be one of
the last lines of defence between our liberties and this centralised,
law making den in Washington.  These ten are not nearly enough.

Richard Storey




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: dac@zurich.ibm.com (Marc Dacier)
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 07:02:07 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: RAID98: Call For Registration
Message-ID: <9807311401.AA36670@selun.zurich.ibm.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



		   Call For Registration - RAID'98

		 First International Workshop on the
		Recent Advances in Intrusion Detection

			     Sponsored by

		  the IBM Emergency Response Service
		       (http://www.ers.ibm.com)
				 and
		 the Joint Research Centre of the EC
	   (Institute for Systems, Informatics and Safety)
			(http://ntsta.jrc.it)

			September 14-16, 1998
		      Louvain-la-Neuve, Belgium


***********************************************************************

			  Visit our web site

		http://www.zurich.ibm.com/~dac/RAID98

    for on-line information regarding the preliminary program, the
	    registration forms, accommodations, maps, etc..

***********************************************************************


RAID'98 is the first in an anticipated annual series of international
workshops that will bring together leading figures from academia,
government, and industry to ponder the current state of intrusion
detection1 technologies and paradigms from the research and commercial
perspectives.  Its aim is to further progress in intrusion detection
by promoting the exchange of ideas among researchers, system
developers, and users and by encouraging links between these groups.

RAID'98 will be held in Louvain-la-Neuve, Belgium, on 14-16 September
1998. RAID'98 will be held in the same location as CARDIS'98
(http://www.dice.ucl.ac.be/cardis98) and ESORICS'98
(http://www.dice.ucl.ac.be/esorics98), at the same time as the former
and just prior to the latter. A registration discount is available to
those attending both the ESORICS conference and the RAID workshop.

Registration is now open, and will continue until 21 August 1998. Late
registration will continue until 4 September 1998, but only on a
space-available basis, and will include a penalty of 2000 BEF. If you
need more information regarding registration or accommodations, please
take contact with Catherine Rouyer

E-mail: Rouyer@tele.ucl.ac.be

RAID Secretariat
UCL/TELE (Mrs. Catherine Rouyer)
Place du Levant, 2
B-1348 Louvain-la-Neuve
Belgium

************************** PRELIMINARY PROGRAM *************************
**** html version available:  http://www.zurich.ibm.com/~dac/RAID98 ****


MONDAY SEPTEMBER 14,1998
========================

8:00  9:00
Transfers from hotels, coffee service and participant check-in

Session 1 (Session Chair: Kathleen Jackson)
-------------------------------------------

9:00 - 9:20
  Welcome and Introduction
      Marc Dacier (IBM ZRL, Switzerland), Jean-Jacques
      Quisquater (UCL, Belgium).
9:20 - 9:40
  The Rome Labs Experience
      Kevin Ziese (Cisco Systems, Inc., USA)
9:40 - 10:00
  Intrusion Detection and Legal Proceedings
      Peter Sommer (London School of Economics and Political Science, UK)
10:00 - 10:20
  Lessons Learned in the Implementation of a
  Multi-Location Network Based Real Time Intrusion Detection System
      Michael Puldy (IBM Emergency Response Service, USA)


10:20 - 10:40
  Break - Coffee service


Session 2 (Session Chair:  Baudouin Le Charlier)
------------------------------------------------  

10:40 - 11:00
  GASSATA, A Genetic Algorithm as an Alternative Tool for
  Security Audit Trails Analysis
      Ludovic Me (SUPELEC, France)
11:00 - 11:20
  Using Bottleneck Verification to Find Novel New Attacks
  with a Low False Alarm Rate
      Richard Lippmann (MIT Lincoln Laboratory, USA)
11:20 - 11:40
  The Use of Information Retrieval Techniques for Intrusion Detection
      Ross Anderson (University of Cambridge, UK)
11:40 - 12:00
  Tools for Intrusion detection: Results and Lessons
  Learned from the ASAX Project
      Abdelaziz. Mounji (Computer Science Institute, Belgium)


12:00 - 13:30
Lunch


Session 3   (Session Chair:  Yves Deswarte)
-------------------------------------------  

13:30 - 13:50
  Dependability of Large-scale Infrastructures and
  Challenges for Intrusion Detection 
      Marc Wilikens (Institute for Systems, Informatics and Safety, Italy)
13:50 - 14:10
  How Re(Pro)active Should An IDS Be?
      Richard Overill (King's College London, UK)
14:10 - 14:30
  Contribution of Quantitative Security Evaluation to Intrusion Detection
      Yves Deswarte (LAAS-CNRS & INRIA, France)
14:30 - 14:50
  Intrusion Detection in Telecommunication
      Hai-Ping Ko (GTE Laboratories Incorporated, USA)


14:50 - 15:10
Break - Beverages


Session 4   (Session Chair:  TBD)
---------------------------------  

15:10 - 15:30
  Problems with Network­based Intrusion Detection for Enterprise Computing
      Thomas Daniels (Purdue University, USA)
15:30 - 15:50
  Transitioning IDS Research Into a Viable Product
     Mark Crosbie (Hewlett-Packard Corporation, USA)
15:50 - 16:10
  Enhanced Network Intrusion Detection in a Smart Enterprise Environment
      Ricci Ieong (Hong Kong University of Science and Technology, Hong Kong)
16:10 - 16:30
  Integrating Intrusion Detection into the Network/Security Infrastructure
      Mark Wood (Internet Security Systems, Inc, USA)


16:30 - 16:50
Break - Refreshments

  
Session 5 (Panel Chair: Rowena Chester)
---------------------------------------

16:50 - 18:00 
  The Nature and Utility of Standards Organizations
  for the Intrusion Detection Developers Community

      Participants
        Dick Brackney (NSA)
        Rowena Chester (Chair NCITS (ANSI) T4 Committee)
        Roger French (Compaq)
        Walter Fumy (Chair ISO SC27)
        Larry Nelson (AT&T)
        Vern Paxson (LBNL)
        Gene Spafford (Purdue University)
        Mark Zalewski (Chair TC68)

18:00 - 19:30
Transfers to and from hotels

19:30 - 22:00
Banquet

22:00
Transfers to hotels  
  

TUESDAY SEPTEMBER 15,1998
=========================

8:00  9:00
Transfers from hotels and coffee service


Session 6   (Session Chair:  Timothy Grance)
--------------------------------------------  

9:00 - 9:20
  Measuring Intrusion Detection Systems
      Roy Maxion (Carnegie Mellon University, USA)
9:20 - 9:40
  The 1998 DARPA/AFRL Off-line Intrusion Detection Evaluation
      Richard Lippmann (MIT Lincoln Laboratory, USA)
9:40 - 10:00
  Securing Network Audit Logs on Untrusted Machines
      Bruce Schneier (Counterpane Systems, USA)
10:00 - 10:20
  Intrusion Detection and User Privacy - A Natural Contradiction?
      Roland Bueschkes (Aachen University of Technology, Germany)


10:20 - 10:40
Break - Coffee Service


Session 7  (Session Chair:  Marc Dacier)
----------------------------------------  

10:40 - 11:00
  Design and Implementation of an Intrusion Detection System
  for OSPF Routing Networks
      Y. Frank Jou (MCNC, USA)
11:00 - 11:20
  Designing IDLE: The Intrusion Data Library Enterprise
      Ulf Lindqvist (Chalmers University of Technology, Sweden)
11:20 - 11:40
  Design and Implementation of a Sniffer Detector
      Stephane Grundschober (IBM Zurich Research Laboratory, Switzerland)
11:40 - 12:00
  The Application of Artificial Neural Networks to Misuse Detection:
  Initial Results
      James Cannady (Georgia Tech Research Institute, USA)


12:00 - 13:30
Lunch


Session 8   (Session Chair:  Deborah Frincke)
---------------------------------------------  

13:30 - 13:50
  AAFID: Autonomous Agents for Intrusion Detection
      Diego Zamboni (Purdue University, USA)
13:50 - 14:10
  Research Issues in Cooperative Intrusion Detection Between Multiple Domains
      Deborah Frincke (University of Idaho, USA)
14:10 - 14:30
  A Large-scale Distributed Intrusion Detection Framework
  Based on Attack Strategy Analysis
      Ming-Yuh Huang (The Boeing Company, USA)
14:30 - 14:50
  NIDAR: The Design and Implementation of an Intrusion Detection System 
      Ong Tiang Hwee (DSO National Laboratories, Singapore)


14:50 - 15:10
Break - Beverages

Session 9   (Session Chair:  Peter Sommer)
------------------------------------------  

15:10 - 15:30
  A UNIX Anomaly Detection System using Self-Organising Maps
      Albert Hoeglund (Nokia Research Center, Finland)
15:30 - 15:50
  Evaluating a Real-time Anomaly-based Intrusion Detection System
      Tobias Ruighaver (University of Melbourne, Australia)
15:50 - 16:10
  Audit Trail Pattern Analysis for Detecting Suspicious Process Behavior
      Andreas Wespi (IBM Zurich Research Laboratory, Switzerland)
16:10 - 16:30
  An Immunological Approach to Distributed Network Intrusion Detection
      Steven A. Hofmeyr (University of New Mexico, USA)


16:30 - 16:50
Break - Refreshments


Session 10 (Session Chair:  Kevin Ziese)
----------------------------------------

16:50 - 17:10
  The Limitations of Intrusion Detection Systems on High Speed Networks
      Joe Kleinwaechter (Internet Security Systems, Inc, USA)
17:10 - 17:30
  CERN Network Security Monitor
      Paolo Moroni (CERN, Switzerland)
17:30 - 17:50
  HAXOR - A Passive Network Monitor/Intrusion Detection Sensor
      Alan Boulanger (IBM Watson Research Center, USA)
17:50 - 18:10
  Using Bro to detect network intruders: experiences and status
      Vern Paxson (Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory, USA)

18:10 - 19:30
Reception

19:30
Transfers to hotels  

WEDNESDAY SEPTEMBER 16,1998
===========================
  
8:00 - 8:40
Transfers from hotels and  coffee service

Session 11 (Panel Chair:  Gene Spafford)
----------------------------------------

8:40 - 10:00
  Intrusion Detection in the Large
    Participants
      Dick Brackney (NSA)
      Deborah Frincke (University of Idaho)
      Michel Miqueu (CNES)
      Jean-Jacques Quisquater (UCL, Belgium)
      Gene Spafford (Purdue University)
      Marc Wilikens (Institute for Systems, Informatics and Safety)
      Kevin Ziese (Cisco/Wheelgroup)

10:00
  Adjourn




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: tbrown@freestamp.com
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 23:55:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: RE: Requested info
Message-ID: <36321023@mailserv23de.larenim.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Richard Storey 
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 14:41:01 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Comments on this Pentagon opinion...not a new debate
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <35C23AA4.4E9C460B@earthlink.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Jim Burnes wrote:
> 

> Just remember that, in any conceivable interpretation of the
> constitution, the federal government has *already* vastly overstepped
> their allocated powers.  Why are you so suprised that they would try
> to eliminate the few remaining liberties the sheeple have?

Irony.

> These ten are more than enough.  Jeffeson himself said, paraphrased,
> that when the state starts violating these basic liberties, then
> its time to call out the militia, start putting up tents and making
> war plans.
>

I take a view of liberty as I believe it exists under natural law.  Some
people view the constitution and bill of rights as the alpha and omega
of liberty on earth.  I am not one of them.

 
> If Jefferson were alive today he would be arrested for conspiracy
> if he simply thought out loud.

Most likey you're right.  In fact, most of the "founders" would be as
well, especially Patrick Henry! ;-)

Richard Storey




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 17:17:30 -0700 (PDT)
To: bill payne 
Subject: Re: From: dac@zurich.ibm.com (Marc Dacier)
In-Reply-To: <35C20839.43A1@nmol.com>
Message-ID: <199808010015.UAA11260@domains.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In <35C20839.43A1@nmol.com>, on 07/31/98 
   at 12:08 PM, bill payne  said:

>Java is similar to FORTH.  FORTH executes super-slow on high-level in
>most machines.  About 10% of the speed of a compiled-language program -
>such as Visual Basic.

FORTH 10% of VB!! ROTHLMAO!!!! Obviously whoever wrote that doesn't have a
clue when it comes to FORTH. I have old FORTH code I wrote years ago and
even running interpreted (and yes FORTH can be compiled) it is faster than
anything the brain-dead Micky$loth crowd could ever dream of writting in
VB. Add to the fact that your average FORTH programmer has a much higher
skill set than your typical VB programmer and is capable of writting fast,
tight code (when have you ever heard fast, tight code used to describe a
VB program?)

 why am I not surprised to see yet another "journalist"
clue-impaired.

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: Windows?  Homey don't play that!

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Xcott Craver 
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 18:49:38 -0700 (PDT)
To: "William H. Geiger III" 
Subject: Re: From: dac@zurich.ibm.com (Marc Dacier)
In-Reply-To: <199808010015.UAA11260@domains.invweb.net>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> >Java is similar to FORTH.  FORTH executes super-slow on high-level in
> >most machines.  About 10% of the speed of a compiled-language program -
> >such as Visual Basic.

> FORTH 10% of VB!! ROTHLMAO!!!! 

	Rolling on the hearth?  Rolling off the house?  Ripping 
	out tiny hairs?

	Running over the hamster?

	You sadistic F@#%.

> Obviously whoever wrote that doesn't have a clue when it comes to FORTH.

	It reads especially weirdly to anyone who remembers that BASIC
	was traditionally interpreted, too.  What crazy times we live in.  

	And anyone who wants to claim VB superior to FORTH has to
	earn the right by transferring first a FORTH-made binary, then
	a VB-made binary, from one computer to another via floppy
	disks.

> VB. Add to the fact that your average FORTH programmer has a much higher
> skill set than your typical VB programmer and is capable of writting fast,
> tight code

	That's because writing in FORTH is like spending the day
	solving brain-teasers.  

	Not that that's a bad thing; I figure programmers would get
	paid a lot more for much higher quality work if they were required
	to be in extreme brain-on mode 24/7.  But at least we have C++,
	huh?  

							-Caj






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 12:52:54 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Secret Service With A Smile - SAHMD!!! / Pwd: lco
Message-ID: <199807311953.VAA25070@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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=i0Ix
-----END PGP MESSAGE-----
                          *** The Fire House Inn ***
                                 Come visit us
                               Telnet: fhouse.org
                                WWW:  fhouse.org
                                  *********** 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: blkjck@gate.net
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 20:39:35 -0700 (PDT)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: Win At Blackjack
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


"This is a one time mailing, if you are not interested, simply hit 'delete'."


Win at Blackjack


Fed up at losing your hard earned money in a casino?

Fed up with the loser's drive home?

Fed up with being in a multimillion dollar luxury casino and wondering which part you helped finance?

Well learn how to play the game! Give yourself a fighting chance...

I am a twenty-seven year veteran of the Casino Industry and I paid for my computer amongst many other items by playing Blackjack using this method.

Its simple to understand, no card counting involved, and will take minutes to learn........ Good Luck!


Send $21 and your mailing address to :                        (Free Shipping):

J.R.Nyman
8401 South Wood Circle
Apt #13
Fort Myers, FL  33919










Thank you for your time....
















From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Hugh Daniel 
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 21:25:35 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks-announce@toad.com
Subject: ANNOUNCE: Bay Area Cypherpunks, Sat.July 11, 12-6, KPMG Mountain View
Message-ID: <199807110201.TAA03498@east.toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



The July Bay Area Cypherpunks Meeting will be Saturday July 11 198
from 12-6, at KPMG, 500 E. Middlefield Rd., Mountain View.

Sameer Parekh will talk about the SSL / PKCS#1 crack and repair.

Dinner after the meeting will be at some restaurant on Castro
St. Mtn.View.

Directions: KPMG is a relatively-unmarked building at the corner of
Middlefield Rd. and Ellis St. in a Netscape-infested section of
Mountain View.
The lobby entrance is on the Ellis St. side.  
The Ellis exit on 101 is between 85 and 237.

http://www.mapblast.com/mapblast/blast.hm?CMD=MAP&GC=X%3A-122.05265%7CY%3A37.39603%7CLT%3A37.39603%7CLN%3A-122.05265%7CLS%3A20000%7Cc%3AMountain_View%7Cs%3ACA%7Cz%3A94043%7Cd%3A807%7Cp%3AUSA&LV=3&IC=37.39603%3A37.39603&IC=5&IC%3A=KPMG&GAD2=500+E+Middlefield+Rd&GAD3=Mountain+View%2C+CA++94043-4008&W=600&H=350&MA=1&zoom.x=28&zoom.y=172

Probable speakers for next month:
- Sue Bardakos from Entrust 
- Paul Kocher talking about differential power analysis

-----------
Mailing list administrivia - this announcement has been sent to
        cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
        cypherpunks-announce@toad.com
        coderpunks@toad.com
        cryptography@c2.net
If you want to get off one of the lists, send mail to
        listname-request@machine.domain   (probably majordomo!)
for the listserver that sent you the mail.
-----------

                                Thanks! 
                                        Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: toto@fhouse.org
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 14:28:30 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: From: dac@zurich.ibm.com (Marc Dacier)
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text




ME>STOP SENDING ME EMAILS MR PAYNE
ME>STOOOPPPP IITTTT!!!!!!

ME>bill payne wrote:

ME>> Friday 7/31/98 11:40 AM
ME>>...[EVERYTHING IN THE WHOLE WORLD, NOT LEAVING OUT A SINGLE WORD]...

Yo BadBillyP,
  You know, as a result of the massive amounts of on-topic SPAM/RANTS
you send to
the CypherPunks Disturbed Male LISP,  many CPUNX are finding it hard to
find time to
find and read the multiple CHAPTER/SPAMS of SAHMD!!! that I hack out
with my
Cleaver, since the Secret Service took away my ChainSaw.

  Well, BadBillyP, not only does the Bienfait Nutly News not mind the
competition
you provide for the time and attention of the CypherPunks ReaderShip
Market
(despite the fact that you have a natural advantage, not having spent
six years
 getting through Grade 4, as a result of 'problems' with math),  but
welcome your
efforts drive other targets of your missives, such as Mr. Merata, Esq.,
crazy enough
to become potential subscribers to the CypherPunks Disturbed Male LISP.
  I am prepared to offer you 25% of all CypherPunks Anarchist Union
Dues that
are collected from KmartTargets of your missives who join up and pay
their dues
in Cash/UnmarkedNonSequentialSmallBills.

TruthMonger
p.s. - THE REASON THAT ALL MATHEMATICIANS EVENTUALLY GO !!!CRAZY!!! IS
      THAT THEY SPEND THEIR WHOLE LIVES WORKING WITH NUMBERS WHICH
      ONLY COME IN !CAPITALS!1234567890!!1234567890!!!1234567890!

p.p.s - I won't send this post directly to you,  since I noticed from a
recent post of
       yours, that you don't read your email.  Go figure...
                          *** The Fire House Inn ***
                                 Come visit us
                               Telnet: fhouse.org
                                WWW:  fhouse.org
                                  *********** 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: paulmerrill@acm.org (Merlyn At Camelot)bgould@home.com (Brian Jay Gould)
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 02:37:28 +0800
To: Cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: (fwd) IBM's committment to UNIXIBM's committment to UNIX
Message-ID: <35c4bec2.5318772@cesvxa.ces.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: message/rfc822



I have witnesses that this actually happened a few years ago:

My client was trying to pick a server platform and was torn between Sun 
and IBM for the UNIX server.  Finally, after receiving a generous 
discount from IBM, they chose IBM's AIX.  Unfortunately, I had no AIX 
experience, so I was overheard saying, "...but I know how to do this on 
Sun..."  Another consultant was brought in who claimed that he had some 
AIX experience and he was also overheard by the director saying, "...but 
I know how to do this on Sun."

So the director was so frustrated, he called IBM and asked to have their 
best AIX professional sent over to straighten us out.  In the director's 
office, he was told the problem and his first words were, "Gee, that's 
tough.  I'm not sure, but I do know how to do that on Sun."

The Sun servers arrived without comment from the director.

-- 
Selected by Jim Griffith.  MAIL your joke to funny@netfunny.com.

If you mail to original@netfunny.com, it makes sure that your joke is tagged
as your original work, Always attribute the source of a joke, whether it's
you, or somebody else.  For the full submission guidelines,
see http://www.netfunny.com/rhf/

This joke's link: http://www.netfunny.com/rhf/jokes/98/Aug/sunserv.html





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: mailwizz@bigfoot.com
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 05:09:17 +0800
To: 
Subject: Bulk emailing service
Message-ID: <199808122051.NAA02650@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text




                       Bulkman Direct Email Promotion

           Bulkman --> Call (336) 584-4715 for ordering information,         
                   custom orders, and Website information.  

Bulkman Services offers professional, effective direct email advertising to 
promote your business or website.  With our service you will reach thousands 
of people who are interested in what you have to offer.  We can send up to 
200,000 emails out for you with your own sales letter.  The email addresses 
that we use are freshly extracted daily from people actually online either 
chatting or surfing! Plus, the people who receive your email aren't 
overloaded with other offers.  We also offer targeted emailing using a target 
audience that you specify, for example - music lovers, single mothers, 
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We use up to date, high quality programs to effectively extract fresh 
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looking for.  Try out our services and  you will be overloaded with response 
and sales!!!


We accept any questions and phone orders -   

Call --> (336) 584-4715    - Anytime -







===========================================================
Based upon your previous Internet postings or visits to one of our affiliate 
web sites, you have been carefully selected to receive the following as a 
person interested in business possibilities.  If you have received this 
message in error, please accept our apology as a responsible e-mailer.
However, this is a ONE TIME only announcement and
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nmmg@nationalmmg.com
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 12:27:44 +0800
To: 
Subject: Bulk emailing service
Message-ID: <199808170341.UAA17066@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text




                       Bulkman Direct Email Promotion


          VISIT OUR WEBSITE NOW!!! --> http://www.nationalmmg.com

          Bulkman --> Call (336) 584-4715 for ordering information,          
                  custom orders, and Website information.  

Bulkman Services offers professional, effective direct email advertising to 
promote your business or website.  With our service you will reach thousands 
of people who are interested in what you have to offer.  We can send up to 
200,000 emails out for you with your own sales letter.  The email addresses 
that we use are freshly extracted daily from people actually online either 
chatting or surfing! Plus, the people who receive your email aren't 
overloaded with other offers.  We also offer targeted emailing using a target 
audience that you specify, for example - music lovers, single mothers, 
college students, etc.  

We use up to date, high quality programs to effectively extract fresh 
addresses and successfully mail your message.  This is why our service is 
more effective than others - Bulkman will give the sales boost you've been 
looking for.  Try out our services and  you will be overloaded with response 
and sales!!!


We accept any questions and phone orders -   

Call --> (336) 584-4715    - Anytime -

Website --> http://www.nationalmmg.com





=========================================================================
Based upon your previous Internet postings or visits to one of our affiliate 
web sites, you have been carefully selected to receive the following as a 
person interested in business possibilities.  If you have received this 
message in error, please accept our apology as a responsible e-mailer. Reply 
to this email with "remove" in the subject line and we will NEVER email you 
again.

 
 
 
 
 
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bluesky17@mailexcite.com
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 19:31:16 +0800
To: 
Subject: MASS EMAIL WORKS!!
Message-ID: <199809160024.RAA14530@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



THE GOOD NEWS! MASS E-MAIL MAY BE THE ANSWER!

Everyday millions of people on the internet with an E-Mail 
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When your ad is placed directly in front of tens of thousand of 
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* OR CLICK_HERE_TO_GOTO_REMOVE-LIST.COM   
(http://remove-list.com)
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PRINT THIS AD FOR FUTURE CONSIDERATION!!
 
 
 
 
 
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: EKR 
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 19:41:03 +0800
To: Tom Weinstein 
Subject: Re: Questions for Magaziner?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Tom Weinstein  writes:

> > Arnold G. Reinhold wrote:
> >
> > One question I'd like asked is whether the US Gov will approve 56-bit RC-4
> > for export on the same terms as 56-bit DES. That would allow export
> > versions of web browsers to be upgraded painlessly, making international
> > e-commerce 64 thousand times more secure than existing 40-bit browsers.
> > (56-bit DES browsers would require every merchant to upgrade their SSL
> > servers and introduce a lot of unneeded complexity.)
> 
> Actually, it wouldn't be any easier to deploy 56-bit RC4 than DES.  Either
> would require roughly the same changes to both clients and servers.
And from a protocol perspective, it would be worse, at least for
SSL, since SSL doesn't have a 56 bit RC4 mode at all.

-Ekr
-- 
[Eric Rescorla                                   ekr@rtfm.com]




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "chungdoo" 
Date: Mon,  2 Aug 1999 21:26:56 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com
Subject: baby carrier
Message-ID: <199808031300280540.0061DF4C@kotec.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



 We are pleased to take this opportunity to introduce ourselves as one of
 the leading manufacturers-exporters of high grade Baby walker, Baby
 carrier, Baby swing, Mickey Basketball and  Accesorries with beautiful shape in Korea.   

 We hope the articles will be just what you want for outstanding ones 
 compared with the competitors' in quality and design as well.

 Our baby products has the outstanding points as follows:
 * Baby walker
  - Spring Cushion Type
 * Baby carrier
  - Comfortable, safe and ligh frame
  - Padded headrest and Shoulder straps
  - Adjustable inner seat
  - Large removable storage bag for baby supplies
  - Padded waist belt  
 * family carrier
  - Ages 6 months to 2 years
  - Frame : Aluminum
  - Fabric : Nylon
  - Weight : 1200 g/PC
  - Double seats for baby and child
 * simple carrier
  - Ages 6 months to 3 years
  - Fabric : Nylon
  - Support baby with your arms
  - Simple fuction, simple carrying
  - Pouch for storage
  - See through vinyl package

 * 3+  SWING 
  Our toys are tested to company the requirement of European Standard (Safety 
  of Toys).
  This high quality product
  is  on all age swing.

  If has different size settings,  depending on the size of  your child you can
  fit the  back into either inside (smaller)or(larger)setting.

  Back Support and front restraint shield are removable.  So if can be
  converted into  three swings(infant Swing,  Chair Swign and Seat swing)
  suitable for children 6 months  up to 12 years old. 
 * DO RE MI  SWING

 * SEVEN  MICKEY
 - A  Mini Basketball Set
 - Non Toxic PVC Ball
 * TEN  MICKEY
 * FIFTEEN  MICKEY
 * Accesorries
 * Feeding  echievements
 * Baby  Gift  Set

 To see the design, pls visit our web site, http://www.chungdoo.co.kr and 
 do not hesitate to send your requirements so that we may show you our best
 service.

 We are looking forward to hearing a good news from you soon.

 Faithfully yours,
 
 K. J. Kang, President
 Chung Doo Corporation
 Tel : (82-2) 565-3115, 565-3885
 Fax : (82-2) 565-3110
 e-mail : chungdoo@chungdoo.co.kr
 URL : http://www.chungdoo.co.kr

   







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anooshiravan Merat 
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 14:00:31 -0700 (PDT)
To: bill payne 
Subject: Re: From: dac@zurich.ibm.com (Marc Dacier)
In-Reply-To: <35C20839.43A1@nmol.com>
Message-ID: <35C22BB0.398F875A@sums.ac.ir>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


STOP SENDING ME EMAILS MR PAYNE
STOOOPPPP IITTTT!!!!!!

bill payne wrote:

> Friday 7/31/98 11:40 AM
>
> John Young
>
> I am looking at http://www.jya.com/raid98.htm
>
> Dacier asked me why NSA/Sandia was concerned about what
> each bit in an executable image did when I was in his office in
> Zurich in April 1997.
>
> Spiking, of course.  A SECRET OTHER FUNCTION to a device.
>
> http://caq.com/cryptogate  http://www.aci.net/kalliste/speccoll.htm
>
> NSA/Sandia doesn't trust its own employees!
>
> On the other hand, NSA/Sandia employees don't trust NSA/Sandia either.
>
> The REAL WORLD again.
>
> IBM Zurich was BIG into Java.
>
> Network World, July 20, 1998 page 6
>
>   The incredible shrinking Java alliance
>
>   By Chris Nerney and Andy Eddy
>
>     A year ago there were four of them, members of a new alliance
>   touting a potent new weapon designed to end Microsoft Corp.'s
>   growing dominance in the computing industry.
>     Now the Java Gang of Four is the Gang of Two and a Half.
>     Java creator Sun Microsystems, Inc., of course, is still fully
>   committed to the programming language, as is IBM. ...
>
> Not looking good for Java future.
>
> Java is similar to FORTH.  FORTH executes super-slow on high-level
> in most machines.  About 10% of the speed of a compiled-language
> program - such as Visual Basic.
>
> Specialized Forth and Java machine can be made to run fast.
> http://groucho.gsfc.nasa.gov/forth/ and http://www.ptsc.com/
>
> But I am not confident Java or Forth machines are going anywhere.
> May be hard to get parts in the future.
>
> But I'm confident about the 80C32 supply!
> http://www.apcatalog.com/cgi-bin/AP?ISBN=0125475705&LOCATION=US&FORM=FORM2
>
> Let's hope this UNFORTUNATE matter http://jya.com/whpfiles.htm gets
> settled soon so that we can move on to constructive projects.
>
> Later
> bill
>
> /\/\/\
>
> Marc
>
> Since I was working the OTHER SIDE of
>
>   Recent Advances in Intrusion Detection
>
> for the FBI, I might be able to give a nice talk about what the US
> government is REALLY UP TO on defeating intrusion detection!
>
> I am not reading e-mail.
>
> best
> bill
>
> Hi Matthias!
>
>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Counterfeiting Wiegand Wire Access Credentials
>
>                                    Bill Payne
>
>                                  October 16,1996
>
>                                     Abstract
>
>                   Wiegand wire access credentials are easy and
>                   inexpensive to counterfeit.
>
>         Access Control & Security Systems Integration magazine, October
>         1996 [http://www/securitysolutions.com] published the article,
>
>              Wiegand technology stands the test of time
>
>              by PAUL J. BODELL, page 12
>
>              Many card and reader manufacturers offer Wiegand (pronounced
>              wee-gand) output.  However, only three companies in the
>              world make Wiegand readers.  Sensor Engineering of Hamden
>              Conn., holds the patent for Wiegand, and Sensor has licensed
>              Cardkey of Simi Valley, Calif., and Doduco of Pforzheim,
>              Germany, to manufacture Wiegand cards and readers. ...  A
>              Wiegand output reader is not the same thing as a Wiegand
>              reader,  and it is important to understand the differences.
>
>                 In brief, Wiegand reader use the Wiegand effect to
>              translate card information around the patented Wiegand
>              effect in which a segment of a specially treated wire
>              generates an electronic pulse when subjected to a specific
>              magnetic field.  If the pulse is generated when the wire is
>              near a pick-up coil, the pulse can be detected by a circuit.
>              Lining up several rows of wires and passing them by a cold
>              would generate a series of pulses.  Lining up two rows of
>              wires - calling on row "zero bits" and the other "one bits"
>              - and passing them by two different coils would generate two
>              series of pulses, or data bits.  These data bits can then be
>              interpreted as binary data and used to control other
>              devices.  If you seal the coils in a rugged housing with
>              properly placed magnets, and LED and some simple circuitry,
>              you have a Wiegand reader.  Carefully laminate the special
>              wires in vinyl, and artwork, and hot-stamp a number on the
>              vinyl, and you have a Wiegand card.
>
>              IN THE BEGINNING
>
>                Wiegand was first to introduce to the access control
>              market in the late 1970s.  It was immediately successful
>              because it filled the need for durable, secure card and
>              reader technology.
>                Embedded in the cards, Wiegand wires cannot be altered or
>              duplicated. ...
>
>         Bodell's Last statement is incorrect.
>
>         Tasks for EASILY counterfeiting Wiegand wire cards are
>
>         1    Locate the wires inside the card to read the 0s and 1s.
>
>         2    Build an ACCEPTABLE copy of the card.
>
>         Bodell's clear explanation of the working of a Wiegand card can
>         be visualized
>
>              zero row    |     |   |
>
>              one row        |          |
>
>              binary      0  1  0   0   1
>              representation
>
>         Solutions to Task 1
>
>              A    X-ray the card
>
>              B    MAGNI VIEW FILM,  Mylar film reads magnetic fields ...
>                   Edmunds Scientific Company, catalog 16N1, page
>                   205, C33,447  $11.75
>
>         is placed over the top of the Wiegand card.
>
>         COW MAGNET,  Cow magnetics allow farmers to trap metal in the
>         stomachs of their cows.  Edmunds, page 204, C31,101 $10.75
>         is placed under the card.
>
>         Location of the wires is easily seen on the green film.
>
>         Mark the position of the wires with a pen.
>
>         Next chop the card vertically using a shear into about 80/1000s
>         paper-match-sized strips.
>
>         Don't worry about cutting a wire or two.
>
>         Note that a 0 has the pen mark to the top.  A 1 has the pen mark
>         at the bottom.
>
>         Take a business card and layout the "paper match"-like strips to
>         counterfeit the card number desired.
>
>         Don't worry about spacing.  Wiegand output is self-clocking!
>
>         Tape the "paper-match - like" strips to the business card.
>
>         Only the FUNCTION of the card needs to be reproduced!
>
>                                      History
>
>         Breaking electronic locks was done as "work for others" at Sandia
>
>         National Laboratories beginning in 1992 funded by the Federal
>         Bureau of Investigation/Engineering Research Facility, Quantico,
>         VA.
>
>         The FBI opined that this work was SECRET/NATIONAL SECURITY
>         INFORMATION.
>
>         Details of the consequences of this work are covered in
>
>              Fired Worker File Lawsuit Against Sandia
>              Specialist Says He Balked When Lab Sought Electronic
>              Picklock Software, Albuquer Journal, Sunday April 25, 1993
>
>              State-sanctioned paranoia,  EE Times, January 22, 1996
>
>              One man's battle,  EE Times, March 22, 1994
>
>              Damn the torpedoes,  EE Times, June 6, 1994
>
>              Protecting properly classified info,  EE Times, April 11,
>              1994
>
>              DOE to scrutinize fairness in old whistle-blower cases,
>              Albuquerque Tribune, Nov 7 1995
>
>              DOE boss accelerates whistle-blower protection,  Albuquerque
>              Tribune, March 27, 1996
>
>              DOE doesn't plan to compensate 'old' whistle-blowers with
>              money, Albuquerque Tribune September 27, 199







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: h0uugi93@galaxylink.com.hk
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 23:20:24 -0700 (PDT)
To: You@aol.com
Subject: Look At This
Message-ID: <199808010905.CAA16485@palm.telegraph.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




AMERICA'S # HOME BUSINESS

TELEMARKETING GOES MLM

No Selling

No recruiting

Great Income

Call Now,

You have nothing to Lose
I am making $1,000.00 per day, this is my
second day
Call
1 888 443 8971
ID#  2085



The Mailing List that you are being mailed from was filtered against the Global Remove List at: http://remove-list.com
Remove-List is a free public service offering to help the general public get removed from bulk mailings lists and has not sent this message. If you want their help, please add your name to their list and you will not receive a bulk email from us or any other ethical bulk emailer






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anne 
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 05:57:07 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: How to earn yourself $50,000 in 90 days!!
Message-ID: <419.436008.87662292 fivebuz@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Our research indicates the following material may be of interest
to you. If you prefer NOT to learn the easy way to make some much
needed income, please, simply delete this letter.  To further
insure you do not get email of this nature, there are several
universal "remove" lists you can subscribe to on the internet.
I filter all email addresses that I send to against such a
"remove" list of over 2,000,000 subscribers.

Please accept my apology if this was sent to you in error!

***************************************************************
You are about to make up to $50,000-In less than 90 days
Read the enclosed program...THEN READ IT AGAIN!
***************************************************************
This is the letter that got my attention.  Read on and I'm sure
you will agree that this is a great plan!


Dear Friend,

The enclosed information is something I almost let slip through
my Fingers. Fortunately, sometime later I re-read everything and
gave some thought and study to it. Please do the same.  It's so
simple to do.

And you won't be left out in the cold to figure it all out yourself.
Look further down in this letter for the  information you will
receive from Abot Marketing.  They give you 10,000 fresh email
addresses and give you the locations of the best software (FREE
SOFTWARE) to send out large quantities of email. (normally  this
kind of software is several hundred dollars) They even give you
easy to understand, proven, step by  step instructions for success
with this program.  In fact, they helped me get started and I'm
so thankful.  It's  hard to belive that this as simple as it is,
but it really is SIMPLE. You will even get support from them via
email anytime you need it.  You won't get this kind of help from
other programs of this nature. It makes all the difference in the world.


My name is Anne Bowman. I am 31-year-old graduate student desperately
trying to finish my degree and begin working in my chosen field
that is, if I am lucky enough to find a job in the crowded market.
Like most people in this day and age, it is hard to make ends
meet, and being a student does not help the situation at all
(If I ever have to buy one more box of macaroni and cheese I
think I would have to scream). I returned to school after
having worked for several years with little potential for
achieving what I had expected out of life.  I figured if I
returned to school and received my Ph.D there would be several
pportunities for me out there to achieve my goals. After seeing
my fellow graduate students receive their degrees and,
depressingly, not find respectable positions in their chosen
field I began to think, "Oh no not again!"  Four extra years
in school and an extra $20,000 in student loans on top of the
first $18,000, what will I do if the same happens to me?"
I began to doubt my patience for the long term investment in
schooling, and decided enough was enough, "Why can't I make
real money now instead of waiting to graduate with no guarantee
of a lucrative return for all of my efforts!"  I am writing to
share my experience with other hopeful students out there, as
well as ANYONE looking for an pportunity to take their financial
situation into their own hands.  I hope you will consider this
opportunity seriously and that this will change your life FOREVER!
., FINANCIALLY!!!  And once you get started it takes so little
of your time.

In mid October 97 I received this program. I didn't send for it,or
ask for it, they just got my name off a mailing list. I TOOK THIS
AS A SIGN!!!  After reading it several times, to make sure I was
reading it correctly, it made perfect sense. Here was a MONEY-MAKING
PHENOMENON. I could invest as much as I wanted to start (about as
much as it costs for a pizza!), without putting me further in debt.
After I got a pencil and paper and figured it out, I would at least
get my money back. After determining that the program is LEGAL and
NOT A CHAIN LETTER, I decided "I HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE".

Initially I sent 15,000 emails, (without any costs to me) only a couple
of hours of my time on-line. The great thing about email is that I didn't
need any money for printing to send out the program, only the time to
fulfill my orders.  There is a vast on-line market available to everyone
who owns a computer.  Following the advice of the person from whom I received
this letter, I am telling you like it is, and I hope it doesn't turn you
off, but I promised myself I would not "rip-off" anyone, no matter how much
money it cost me!  After you receive the reports they should explain
everything to you.  You may have some general questions, however, and after
I send you REPORT #1 , please feel free to contact me and I will give
you any advice you need.

In one week, I was starting to receive orders for REPORT #1.
By mid November, I had received 40 orders for REPORT #1. When you read the
GUARANTEE in the program you will see that "YOU MUST RECEIVE 15 TO 20 
ORDERS
FOR REPORT #1 WITHIN 2 WEEKS IF YOU DON'T SEND OUT MORE 
PROGRAMS UNTIL 
YOU
DO!" My first step in making $50,000 in 20 to 90 days was done. By the
beginning of December, I had received 174 orders for REPORT #2. If you go
back to the GUARANTEE. "YOU MUST RECEIVE 100 OR MORE ORDERS FOR 
REPORT #2
WITHIN TWO WEEKS. IF NOT SEND OUT MORE PROGRAMS UNTIL YOU DO. 
ONCE YOU 
HAVE
100 ORDERS, THE REST IS EASY, RELAX, YOU WILL MAKE YOUR $50,000 GOAL". 
Well,
I had 174 orders for REPORT #2, 74 more than I needed. So I sat back and
relaxed. By January 20th, of my emailing of 15,000, I received $54,000 with
more coming in ever day.  The great thing about this program is you can
begin the process over and over again without any limit on potential income!

I paid off ALL my student loans, and together with everything I have learned
in school, I am now saving in order to open up my own business related to
my field as soon as I graduate. Please take time to read the attached
program. IT WILL CHANGE YOUR LIFE FOREVER! Remember, it won't work if you
don't try it. This program does work, but you must follow it EXACTLY!
Especially the rules of not trying to place your name in a different place
on the list. It doesn't work, you'll lose out on a lot of money! REPORT #2
explains this. ALWAYS follow the guarantee, 15 to 20 orders of REPORT #1
and 100 or more orders for REPORT #2 and you will make $50,000 or more in
20 to 90 days. I AM LIVING PROOF THAT IT WORKS!!

If you choose not to participate in this program, I'm sorry, It really
is a great opportunity with little cost or risk to you. If you choose
to participate, follow the program and you will be on your way to
financial security.

To my fellow graduate students out there, good luck to you and I
sympathize.  And to all other persons in financial trouble consider
this letter a sign and please take advantage of this opportunity.
YOU WON'T BE DISAPPOINTED!
 

Sincerely,
Anne Bowman

The following testimonial was at the bottom of this letter but it
was too good to leave down there so I moved it up here.  It is
exactly how I felt at first and and feel now.

"The first week after I started this program was torture.
I couldnt wait to see if it was really going to work after I mailed
out my first batch of letters.  I chuckle every day now when I walk
out of the post office with my envelopes.  This is so easy, I still
can't belive it's happenning!" Don Masterson, Troy,NY


$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

>From here down is the instruction portion of this letter...

This is a LEGAL, MONEY-MAKING PHENOMENON. PRINT this letter, read the
directions, THEN READ IT AGAIN !!!

You are about to embark on the most profitable and unique program you may 
ever see.  Many times over, it has demonstrated and proven its ability to
generate large amounts of cash. This program is showing fantastic appeal
with a huge and ever-growing on-line population desirous of additional income.

This is a legitimate, LEGAL, money-making opportunity.  It does not require you to
come in contact with people, do any hard work, and best of all, you never have to
leave the house, except to get the mail and go to the bank! 

This truly is that lucky break you've been waiting for!  Simply follow the easy
instructions in this letter, and your financial dreams will come true! When followed
correctly, this electronic, multi-level marketing program works perfectly...100%
EVERY TIME! 

Thousands of people have used this program to:
    -  Raise capital to start their own business
    -  Pay off debts
    -  Buy homes, cars, etc., 
    -  Even retire! 

This is your chance, so don't pass it up!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OVERVIEW OF THIS EXTRAORDINARY ELECTRONIC 
MULTI-LEVEL MARKETING PROGRAM
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Basically, this is what we do:

We send thousands of people a product for $5.00 that costs next to 
nothing to produce and e-mail. As with all multi-level businesses, we
build our business by recruiting new partners and selling our products.
Every state in the U.S. allows you to recruit new multi- level business 
online (via your computer).

The products in this program are a series of four business and financial
reports costing $5.00 each.  Each order you receive via "snail mail" will
include:

  * $5.00 cash
  * The name and number of the report they are ordering
  * The e-mail address where you will e-mail them the report they ordered.

To fill each order, you simply e-mail the product to the buyer. The $5.00 is yours!
This is the most EASIEST electronic multi-level marketing business anywhere!
 
FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS TO THE LETTER AND
BE PREPARED TO REAP THE STAGGERING BENEFITS!

******* I N S T R U C T I O N S *******

This is what you MUST do:

1.  Order all 4 reports shown on the list below (you can't sell them if you
don't order them).
     
     *  For each report, send $5.00 CASH, the NAME & NUMBER OF THE 
        REPORT YOU ARE ORDERING, YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS, and YOUR
        RETURN POSTAL ADDRESS (in case of a problem) to the person whose 
        name appears on the list next to the report.
  
     *  When you place your order, make sure you order each of the four
        reports.  You will need all four reports so that you can save them
        on your computer and resell them.

     *  Within a few days you will receive, via e-mail, each of the four
         reports.  Save them on your computer so they will be accessible
         for you to send to the 1,000's of people who will order them from you.

2.  IMPORTANT-- DO NOT alter the names of the people who are listed
     next  to each report, or their sequence on the list, in any way other
     than is instructed below in steps "a" through "d" or you will lose out
     on the majority of your profits.  ONCE YOU UNDERSTAND THE WAY THIS
     WORKS, YOU WILL UNDERSTAND WHY IT DOESN'T WORK IF YOU CHANGE 
IT.  
Remember,
     this method has been tested, and if you alter it, it will not work.

    a.  Look below for the listing of available reports.

    b.  After you've ordered the four reports, replace the name and address
         under REPORT #1 with your name and address, moving the one that 
         was there down to REPORT #2.  

    c.  Move the name and address that was under REPORT #2 down to 
         REPORT #3.  

    d.  Move the name and address that was under REPORT #3 down to 
         REPORT #4.  

    e.  The name and address that was under REPORT #4 is removed from
         the list and has NO DOUBT collected their 50 grand.

Please make sure you copy everyone's name and address ACCURATELY!!!

3.  Take this entire letter, including the modified list of names, and save
     it to your computer.  Make NO changes to the INSTRUCTION portion of
     this letter.    
  
4.  Now you're ready to start an advertising campaign on the
     Internet!  Advertising on the Internet is very, very
     inexpensive, and there are HUNDREDS of FREE places to
     advertise, but email has, by far, proven itself to be the best medium for
     this program.  And the emailers best friend is e-mail lists.
     You can buy these lists for under $20/20,000 addresses or you can pay
     someone a minimal charge to take care of the mailing for you.  BE SURE TO 
START 
     YOUR AD CAMPAIGN IMMEDIATELY!  Each day that passes while you think 
about 
     it is a day without profit.  

5.  For every $5.00 you receive, all you must do is e-mail them the report
     they ordered.  THAT'S IT!  ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE 
     ON ALL ORDERS!  This will guarantee that the e-mail THEY send out,
     with YOUR name and address on it, will be prompt because they can't
     advertise until they receive the report!

------------------------------------------
AVAILABLE REPORTS
------------------------------------------
***Order Each REPORT by NUMBER and NAME***

Notes:
-  ALWAYS SEND $5 CASH FOR EACH REPORT 
-  ALWAYS SEND YOUR ORDER VIA FIRST CLASS MAIL 
-  Make sure the cash is concealed by wrapping it in at least two sheets of
paper  
-  On one of those sheets of paper, include: (a) the number & name of the
report you are ordering, (b) your e-mail address, and (c) your postal
address.  (using your printer is the best way to do this)
_________________________________________________________________
REPORT #1 "HOW TO MAKE $250,000 THROUGH MULTILEVEL SALES" 

ORDER REPORT #1 FROM:  
ALBERT N
YISHUN CENTRAL POST OFFICE
PO BOX 307
SINGAPORE 917611

*****IMPORTANT NOTE*****
- US Dollar currency only please
- Once again, make sure the cash is concealed by wrapping it
  in at least "two" sheets of paper  
_________________________________________________________________
REPORT #2 "MAJOR CORPORATIONS AND MULTILEVEL SALES"

ORDER REPORT #2 FROM:  
J.F.J
P.O. Box 342
McCormick, SC 29835-0342
USA
_________________________________________________________________
REPORT #3 "SOURCES FOR THE BEST MAILING LISTS"

ORDER REPORT #3 FROM:
Matt G
3801 Brooklyn Ave. NE #A102-1
Seattle, WA 98105      
USA
_________________________________________________________________
REPORT #4 "EVALUATING MULTILEVEL SALES PLANS"

ORDER REPORT #4 FROM:
Abot Marketing
PO BOX 2523
Chapel Hill, NC 27515-2523
USA


*****IMPORTANT NOTE*****
My personal success is due to sending out emails to prospective
participants, I am happy to help you get started by giving you
10,000 free current email addresses and giving you the location
of several free programs that will allow you to send out large
quantities of e-mail easily. I will email the fresh addresses
and software information to you the same day I receive your
report request.  Just jot down "free help please" on the report
request that you send with your $5.  In many cases I can take
care of your mailing for you at NO CHARGE.  You will receive my
real email address when I send you this report and you can contact
me for any questions you may have. (program participants, you may
leave this offer with my name as I am moved down the list.  I will
honor it for the duration of the program. Just move it down, with my 
name, to the next position when you send out your first mailings.)      
_________________________________________________________________


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
HERE'S HOW THIS AMAZING PLAN WILL MAKE YOU $MONEY$
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Let's say you decide to start small just to see how well it works.  Assume
your goal is to get 10 people to participate on your first level.  (Placing
a lot of FREE ads on the Internet will EASILY get a larger response.) Also
assume that everyone else in YOUR ORGANIZATION gets ONLY 10 down line
members. Follow this example to achieve the STAGGERING results below.

1st level--your 10 members with$5...................................$50
2nd level--10 members from those 10 ($5 x 100)..................$500
3rd level--10 members from those 100 ($5 x 1,000)..........$5,000
4th level--10 members from those 1,000 ($5 x 10,000)...$50,000
THIS TOTALS----------->$55,550

Remember friends, this assumes that the people who participate only
recruit 10 people each.  Think for a moment what would happen if they
got 20 people to participate!  Most people get 100's of participants!  
THINK ABOUT IT!

Your cost to participate in this is practically nothing (surely you can
afford $20 for a chance to make $ 55,000).  You obviously already have
an Internet connection and e-mail is FREE!!!  REPORT# 3 shows you the
most productive methods for bulk e-mailing and purchasing e-mail lists.
Some list & bulk e-mail vendors even work on trade!

About 50,000 new people get online every month!

*******TIPS FOR SUCCESS*******

 *  TREAT THIS AS YOUR BUSINESS!  Be prompt, professional, and follow 
     the directions accurately.

 *  Send for the four reports IMMEDIATELY so you will have them when 
    the orders start coming in because:

    When you receive a $5 order, you MUST send out the requested
    product/report to comply with the U.S.  Postal & Lottery Laws, Title
    18,Sections 1302 and 1341 or Title 18,  Section 3005 in the U.S.  Code,
    also Code of Federal Regs.  Vol..  16, Sections 255 and 436, which
    state that "a product or service must be exchanged for money received."

 *  ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON THE ORDERS YOU RECEIVE.

 *  Be patient and persistent with this program.  If you follow the 
    instructions exactly, the results WILL undoubtedly be SUCCESSFUL!

 *  ABOVE ALL, HAVE FAITH IN YOURSELF AND KNOW YOU WILL SUCCEED!

*******YOUR SUCCESS GUIDELINE*******

Follow these guidelines to guarantee your success:
I CAN'T STRESS ENOUGH HOW IMPORTANT THIS NEXT SECTION IS!!!!

If you don't receive 10 to 20 orders for REPORT #1 within two weeks,
continue advertising until you do.  Then, a couple of weeks later you
should receive at least 100 orders for REPORT #2.  If you don't, continue
advertising until you do.  Once you have received 100 or more orders
for REPORT #2, YOU CAN RELAX, because the system is already working
for you, and the cash will continue to roll in!

THIS IS IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER:

Every time your name is moved down on the list, you are placed in front of
a DIFFERENT report.  You can KEEP TRACK of your PROGRESS by watching
which report people are ordering from you.  If you want to generate more income,
send another batch of e-mails and start the whole process again!  There is
no limit to the income you will generate from this business!

NOTE:  If you need help with starting a business, registering a business
name, how income tax is handled, etc., contact your local office of the Small
Business Administration (a Federal agency) for free help and answers to
questions.  Also, the Internal Revenue Service offers free help via telephone
and free seminars about business taxes.

*******T  E  S  T  I  M  O  N  I  A  L  S*******

The first week after I started this program was torture.  I couldnt
wait to see if it was really going to work after I mailed out my first
batch of letters.  I chuckle every day now when I walk out of the post
office with my envelopes.  This is so easy, I still can't belive it's
happenning! Don Masterson, Troy,NY


This program does work, but you must follow it EXACTLY!  Especially
the rule of not trying to place your name in a different position, it won't
work and you'll lose a lot of potential income.  I'm living proof that it works.
It really is a great opportunity to make relatively easy money, with little
cost to you.  If you do choose to participate, follow the program exactly,
and you'll be on your way to financial security. 
Sean McLaughlin, Jackson, MS

My name is Frank.  My wife, Doris, and I live in Bel-Air, MD.  I am a
cost accountant with a major U.S. Corporation and I make pretty good
money. When I received the program I grumbled to Doris about receiving
"junk mail." I made fun of the whole thing, spouting my knowledge of the
population and percentages involved.  I "knew" it wouldn't work.  Doris
totally ignored my supposed intelligence and jumped in with both feet. 
I made merciless fun of her, and was ready to lay the old "I told you so"
on her when the thing didn't work...  Well, the laugh was on me!  Within
two weeks she had received over 50 responses.  Within 45 days she had
received over $147,200 in $5 bills!  I was shocked!  I was sure that I had
it all figured and that it wouldn't work. I AM a believer now.  I have joined
Doris in her "hobby."   I did have seven more years until retirement, but I
think of the "rat race" and it's not for me.  We owe it all to MLM.
Frank T., Bel-Air, MD

I just want to pass along my best wishes and encouragement to you.  Any
doubts you have will vanish when your first orders come in.  I even checked
with the U.S.  Post Office to verify that the plan was legal.  It definitely is!
IT WORKS!!!
Paul Johnson, Raleigh, NC

The main reason for this letter is to convince you that this system is
honest, lawful, extremely profitable, and is a way to get a large amount of
money in a short time.  I was approached several times before I checked
this out.  I joined just to see what one could expect in return for the minimal
effort and money required.  To my astonishment, I received $36,470.00 in
the first 14 weeks, with money still coming in.
Sincerely yours, Phillip A.  Brown, Esq.

Not being the gambling type, it took me several weeks to make up my
mind to participate in this plan.  But conservative that I am, I decided that
the initial investment was so little that there was just no way that I wouldn't
get enough orders to at least get my money back.  Boy, was I surprised when
I found my medium-size post office box crammed with orders!  For awhile, it
got so overloaded that I had to start picking up my mail at the window.  I'll
make more money this year than any 10 years of my life before.  The nice thing
about this deal is that it doesn't matter where in the U.S. the people live. There
simply isn't a better investment with a faster return.
Mary Rockland, Lansing, MI

I had received this program before.  I deleted it, but later I wondered
if I shouldn't have given it a try.  Of course, I had no idea who to contact
to get another copy, so I had to wait until I was e-mailed another program. 
11 months passed then it came...I didn't delete this one!...I made more than
$41,000 on the first try!!
Wilburn, Muncie, IN

This is my third time to participate in this plan.  We have quit our jobs,
and will soon buy a home on the beach and live off the interest on our
money.  The only way on earth that this plan will work for you is if you do
it.  For your sake, and for your family's sake don't pass up this golden
opportunity.  Good luck and happy spending!
Charles Fairchild, Spokane, WA


ORDER YOUR REPORTS TODAY AND GET 
STARTED ON YOUR ROAD TO
FINANCIAL FREEDOM!!!







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 20:59:58 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199808010400.GAA04134@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


> I had begun by thinking that, since the output of a block cipher in
> feedback mode (ie, a stream cipher) is uniformly distributed ("white") that
> it would be sufficient conditioning to feed a bad RNG into a block cipher
> with feedback.  Here, the bad RNG would kick the cipher out of the fixed,
> but key-dependant, sequence it would otherwise generate.

I don't quite parse what you're saying here...?

(more reply below)
... 
> On cypherpunks, Bill Stewart mentioned using hashes instead of ciphers.  
> A hash is like a cipher in that changing any input or key bit changes the
> output unpredictably, but a hash is irreversible because there are fewer
> output bits than input bits.  The simplest hash is a one-bit parity; MD5
> is a more expensive keyed hashing function used for message
> authentication.
> 
> Thinking about a hash instead of a cipher was interesting because now
> we reduce the number of output bits, which if done right, could
> improve the information carried by each binary digit.  We take the MAC
> of an imperfect random number and toss the original random, retaining
> the MAC as our better random value.

The problem with XORing is that you might have a generator where bits are
interdependent in a way that causes entropy to be lost in the XOR. You
generally don't have this problem with the more involved mixing functions.

If the construction you use for distilling the RNG's output to a random
number works as a collision-free hash function, you can place a lower
bound on the amount of entropy in the output based on how long it takes to
simulate the biases in the RNG (I posted a somewhat confuberated
description of the reasoning to coderpunks -- basically, if the hash of
the simulation's output has little enough entropy, it means you can break
the hash; since you can't break the hash, the output can't have that
little entropy). Normally, though, you can get away with using pretty much
any nonlinear mixing function, even if it's not a good hash function.

An "entropy pool" setup where you can put entropy in and pull keys out at
will gets slightly more hairy...if you want to do that, I suggest you try
to contact someone who knows what he/she's doing. :)

Should that prove infeasible, key a stream cipher with the mixed entropy,
and, when you want to pull a key out, grab some stream cipher output; when
you want to drop entropy in, mix some stream cipher output with your new
entropy and rekey the stream cipher with the result (to save time, I'd
only do the rekeying right before I want a key containing the new
entropy). Probably a lot more complicated and slow than it needs to be,
but I think it lets you add any amount of entropy you want without fear of
an attacker somehow interfering with the generation.

...





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED/EUREKA! 
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 18:17:38 -0700 (PDT)
To: All Eureka/Stuffed Subscribers: ;
Subject: Virgin rebirth/Penis pong/Beaver boy
Message-ID: <19980801081100.8187.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Welcome to  today's  issue of Stuffed. To read it you should
click on the URL below.  If it is not made clickable by your
email program  you will need to  use your mouse to highlight
the line,  copy it and then paste it into your browser (then
press Return).

http://stuffed.net/98/8/1/

If you  have an email program that can display web pages you
will find today's front cover should have already been disp-
layed and can be clicked on to take you straight to Stuffed.

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 23:43:35 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Where do you roam?
Message-ID: <199808010643.IAA15232@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


SC>At 5:28 AM -0400 7/31/98, Michael Hohensee wrote:
SC>>Source: Handgunner Magazine, Sept./Oct. 1998, page 154:
SC>Paladin sought to reverse the ruling of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the
SC>Fourth Circuit, whichfound that the book Hit Man: A Technical Manual for
SC>Independent Contractors enjoyed no FirstAmendment protection because, in
SC>that court's opinion (based in part on the stipulations of theparties), a
SC>jury could find that the book's content amounted to the aiding and abetting
SC>of criminalconduct. 

I've  been reading the Bible lately, and it's content has been aiding
and
abetting me in all kinds of criminal misconduct, like murdering a
crapload of 
Arabs and other assorted non-Jewish darkies.
Anybody think that the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit is
prepared to refrain from being hypocritical, and rule that the Bible
does
not enjoy FirstAmendment protection?

Tojohoto,
The ApplePie Murderer
                          *** The Fire House Inn ***
                                 Come visit us
                               Telnet: fhouse.org
                                WWW:  fhouse.org
                                  *********** 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 00:36:23 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: CypherPunks Are Stupid DickWads!!!
Message-ID: <199808010736.JAA18065@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Cuthmarks=***

Ha! Ha! Ha!

I can say anything I want about you guys and you won't know who I am,
because I am using an AnonymousRemailer (TM).
How does it feel to have your own CypherPunksTechnology turned against
you, eh?
And there's nothing you can do about it, because you don't know who I
am...

Hell, I can even badmouth the remailer operators, while using their own 
systems to send out my email badmouthing them, eh?
I mean, these RemailerOperators are really stupid lamers, eh? I mean,
they
can't even get their messages to come out in the same order that they
came in by...
  Dumb, eh? Some of the test messages I sent to myself came back in a
different order from that what I sent them in. I guess these guys don't
know much about computers, eh?
  And those names, 'Anonymous' and 'Nobody', aren't fooling AnyBody,
because the minute you see them, you *know* that the message is
from a remailer.  Dumb, eh?

  Well, I just thought I'd let you guys know how stupid you are and how
you'll never know who I am, or how to find me, because I am cutting the
edge off of computer technology.

MrOrMsAnonymousNobody!ADickWaddLikeYouGuys
p.s. - It's a damn good thing you can't find me, neither, because my
     new email account is on a system that is so straight that my
     email is automatically scanned for BadWords before being sent
     out, and I have to either use misspelled BadWords like Phuck,
     BadWords which aren't in the BadWordDictionary, like DickWadd,
     or send the chapters of SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS!!! to
     the CypherPunks Disturbed Male LISP couched and potatoed in
     ConvectionalEncraption.
                          *** The Fire House Inn ***
                                 Come visit us
                               Telnet: fhouse.org
                                WWW:  fhouse.org
                                  *********** 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: toto@fhouse.org
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 09:00:24 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Did you *really* write PGP?
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


PRZ,
  Some guys from the Secret Service came to see me about the Death
Threats
I've been sending you.
  It's pretty funny that after all those years of persecuting you, the
GuberMint
is now paying these guys to protect you, eh?

  They sure looked at me funny when I told them that it was all in good
humor,
and that I wouldn't dream of doing anything bad to the guy who wrote
PGP.
  Are you *sure* you wrote it? They don't seem to think so...

  Do you play the saxaphone? They said you play the saxaphone.

  Anyway, say "Hi!" to Buddy for me...

Your Pal and CoConspirator,
Toto
~~~~
                          *** The Fire House Inn ***
                                 Come visit us
                               Telnet: fhouse.org
                                WWW:  fhouse.org
                                  *********** 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Jean-Francois Avon" 
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 10:22:48 -0700 (PDT)
To: "Cypherpunks" , "e$@vmeng.com" 
Subject: french Libertarian e-zine in Quebec, Canada (excerpt)
Message-ID: <199808011738.NAA26999@cti06.citenet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



This magazine is bilingual but not translated.  Articles are published in their original language only.  If the author does a translation, both versions are likely to be published.
Ciao
JFA
Montréal, le 1er aoű1998    Numéro 17    
LE QUÉBÉCOIS LIBRE (page 6)       LE QUÉBÉCOIS LIBRE sollicite des textes d'opinion  qui défendent ou contestent le point de vue libertarien sur n'importe quel sujet d'actualité. Les textes doivent avoir entre 700 et 1200 mots. Pričre d'inclure votre titre ou profession, le village ou la ville oůvous habitez, ainsi que votre adresse électronique.               
 <980801-5.htm> <980801-5.htm>page précédente  Vos commentaires      MUSINGS BY MADDOCKS 
ID IN THE USA:  GIVING THEM THE FINGER by Ralph Maddocks   
In June of this year, the US Department of Transportation's National Highway Traffic Safety Administration proposed some new rules, effective October 1, 2000. They require all citizens to obtain a driver's licence containing a social security number. The law makes mention of "biometric identifiers "by which is meant such high-tech delights as digitized thumb or fingerprints on magnetic strips. An unrelated, for the moment, announcement by the Immigration Service on June 23 revealed a new identification system called INSPASS. The latter is a system which verifies such things as retinal and hand scans in order to let frequent travelers pass through customs more quickly. All very efficient.   In this land of the free, whose praises are sung ad nauseam, these kinds of regulations are being introduced frequently and surreptitiously so that the average man, or woman, in the street will not realize what is happening until it is far too late to protest. Requirements such as social security numbers on driving licences are leading inevitably towards their becoming national identity cards. A card which the citizen will soon need to secure government services, apply for a job, conduct banking transactions or even to buy something as simple as an airline ticket.     

An old topic with a new twist Of course this topic is not new to the US, various groups have been proposing tamper-proof ID cards for many years. Often this was connected to discussions on gun control or immigration, it being believed that illegal immigration could be deterred by the use of such cards. The fact that they would be no more reliable than the documents produced originally to obtain them, plus the estimated $2.5 billions required to implement them, does not deter those who would mandate their use. A great deal of the impetus for ID cards is coming from California where a serious illegal immigration problem does indeed exist. As usual, politicians possessed of little or no imagination propose simplistic solutions to complex social and economic problems. Their idea being that such a card would become a kind of employment passport, which illegal immigrants would not possess. Unless, that is, their friendly local forger could supply one. There can be little doubt that the appearance of such a card would be welcomed by the police, they could then stop people at will and ask for some identification. The potential for the harassment of strange, different looking or foreign sounding individuals will increase exponentially. Minorities such as Asians, Latinos and African Americans will become even more perfect targets for such identity checks. Other groups too, such as banks, health insurers, landlords, merchants and others, salivate at the prospect of employing ID cards in their daily activities. Information, once gathered, can be stored at almost no cost, and retrieved in any imaginable sequence. It is this which is providing the incentive to collect the sort of information that has hitherto been maintained about only a very small portion of the population. The United States already has in its education system a national electronic network of student records. The purpose of this system being to allow the exchange of information between various public and private agencies, and the tracking of individuals through school and university, through their military service, through the criminal justice system, through their civilian careers, and through their use of the medical services. Toward a womb to tomb database At the moment, these databases are provided only with an electronic portfolio for every student, an assessment of each student's work and behavior by his teacher and the student's social security number. It is proposed also to include: data about prenatal care; birth weight; number of years in a pre-school program; poverty status; physical, emotional and other development at various ages; date of last routine health and dental care; plus many other items such as the employer's name and whether the person is registered to vote. A womb to tomb, all seeing, all knowing database. In a book published jointly by the U.S. Department of Education and the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, there is ominous talk of "overcoming the confidentiality barrier. "The purpose of the new databases being stated as giving all agencies "ready access to each other's data. " There is a group in the US known as the American Association of Motor Vehicle Administrators (AAMVA) which is actively involved with the Transportation Secretary in proposing or actually changing the various state driving licences to include digitally encoded fingerprints, retinal scans, digital computer readable photographs and other biometric forms of identification. So far, some 28 States have actually begun to make or proposed the changes to their driver's licences. Last December, the AAMVA announced that fingerprints are their currently favored form of biometric identification. It may interest readers to learn that many Canadian provinces are also members of the AAMVA. It would be naive to think that these ideas will not cross the world's longest undefended border before long. All the State assemblies which have introduced the necessary legislation to implement this new form of national ID have done so under cover, usually at the end of a legislative session in the middle of the night. These politicians know a thing or two about journalists. The mainstream media having been remarkably silent on the subject and frequently supportive of the federal government. On a positive note, at least a few States are now actively involved in trying to repeal the fingerprinting requirement. Alabama and New Jersey have done it, and Georgia is considering a piece of draft legislation which will forbid the use of biometric identifiers of any kind. "Live Free or Die "the motto of our neighboring US State of New Hampshire, may well become somewhat more than a motto if its citizens do not resist these latest proposals emanating from their Federal Government. Perhaps, instead of providing their fingerprints, they should show their politicians a collective upraised finger. 
  sommaire    page suivante  <980801-7.htm> <980801-7.htm>    








Jean-Francois Avon, B.Sc. Physics, Montreal, Canada
  DePompadour, Société d'Importation Ltée
     Limoges fine porcelain and french crystal
  JFA Technologies, R&D physicists & engineers
     Instrumentation & control, LabView programming
PGP keys: http://bs.mit.edu:8001/pks-toplev.html
PGP ID:C58ADD0D:529645E8205A8A5E F87CC86FAEFEF891 
PGP ID:5B51964D:152ACCBCD4A481B0 254011193237822C


From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED/EUREKA! 
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 06:00:29 -0700 (PDT)
To: All Eureka/Stuffed Subscribers: ;
Subject: Virgin rebirth/Penis pong/Beaver boy
Message-ID: <19980801151300.10679.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Welcome to  today's  issue of Stuffed. To read it you should
click on the URL below.  If it is not made clickable by your
email program  you will need to  use your mouse to highlight
the line,  copy it and then paste it into your browser (then
press Return).

http://stuffed.net/98/8/1/

If you  have an email program that can display web pages you
will find today's front cover should have already been disp-
layed and can be clicked on to take you straight to Stuffed.

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 12:21:53 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Cracking DES 8
Message-ID: <199808011921.PAA06390@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Chapter 8, Hardware Board Schematics:

   http://jya.com/crack-des08.htm  (13K + 8 images)







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 07:01:03 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: CypherPunks Are Stupid DickWads!!!
Message-ID: <199808011401.QAA17879@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Someone (we will never know who) wrote:

NO>Cuthmarks=***

NO>  Well, I just thought I'd let you guys know how stupid you are and how
NO>you'll never know who I am, or how to find me, because I am cutting the
NO>edge off of computer technology.

NO>                          *** The Fire House Inn ***
NO>                                 Come visit us
NO>                               Telnet: fhouse.org
NO>                                WWW:  fhouse.org
NO>                                  *********** 

It looks like Toto has made fools of us again. Damn he is smart!

FoolMonger
                          *** The Fire House Inn ***
                                 Come visit us
                               Telnet: fhouse.org
                                WWW:  fhouse.org
                                  *********** 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 16:39:39 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: MAKE ENTROPY CHEAP!!!
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980801163906.007bc7d0@m7.sprynet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Producing True Random Numbers at 44Kbits/sec on a common PC

I found that FM radio hiss can be digitized and processed to yield true,
quality random numbers which pass the Diehard randomness tests.

A cheap FM radio was tuned to hiss at the high end of the FM band.  
The radio's earphone-out signal was fed into ordinary computer soundcard and
digitized at 16bits/sample at 22Ksamples/sec.  

Various spectral-analysis programs showed that the FM hiss was fairly white
analog noise, however the raw data did not pass Diehard tests.

I then processed the raw data: The parity of each raw byte
was shifted into a register until a byte accumulated, which was then output.

The resulting data, 1/8 the size of the raw data, passes Diehard randomness
tests with
no additional processing.


Diehard output:
 BIRTHDAY SPACINGS TEST, M= 512 N=2**24 LAMBDA=  2.0000
           bigsimple.bin   using bits  1 to 24 p-value=  .215128
           bigsimple.bin   using bits  2 to 25 p-value=  .749499
           bigsimple.bin   using bits  3 to 26 p-value=  .096196
           bigsimple.bin   using bits  4 to 27 p-value=  .658912
           bigsimple.bin   using bits  5 to 28 p-value=  .017458
           bigsimple.bin   using bits  6 to 29 p-value=  .574795
           bigsimple.bin   using bits  7 to 30 p-value=  .057843
           bigsimple.bin   using bits  8 to 31 p-value=  .755589
           bigsimple.bin   using bits  9 to 32 p-value=  .088504
   The 9 p-values were
        .215128   .749499   .096196   .658912   .017458
        .574795   .057843   .755589   .088504
  A KSTEST for the 9 p-values yields  .896831
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
           OPERM5 test for file bigsimple.bin  
 chisquare for 99 degrees of freedom= 87.229; p-value= .204786
           OPERM5 test for file bigsimple.bin  
 chisquare for 99 degrees of freedom=159.365; p-value= .999882
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
    Binary rank test for bigsimple.bin  
         Rank test for 31x31 binary matrices:
        rows from leftmost 31 bits of each 32-bit integer
      rank   observed  expected (o-e)^2/e  sum
        28       199     211.4   .729394     .729
        29      5138    5134.0   .003101     .732
        30     23023   23103.0   .277344    1.010
        31     11640   11551.5   .677653    1.687
  chisquare= 1.687 for 3 d. of f.; p-value= .457248
    Binary rank test for bigsimple.bin  
         Rank test for 32x32 binary matrices:
        rows from leftmost 32 bits of each 32-bit integer
      rank   observed  expected (o-e)^2/e  sum
        29       206     211.4   .138848     .139
        30      5156    5134.0   .094185     .233
        31     23196   23103.0   .373989     .607
        32     11442   11551.5  1.038443    1.645
  chisquare= 1.645 for 3 d. of f.; p-value= .450664
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
 b-rank test for bits  1 to  8 p=1-exp(-SUM/2)= .14013
 b-rank test for bits  2 to  9 p=1-exp(-SUM/2)= .95786
 b-rank test for bits  3 to 10 p=1-exp(-SUM/2)= .23685
 b-rank test for bits  4 to 11 p=1-exp(-SUM/2)= .54937
 b-rank test for bits  5 to 12 p=1-exp(-SUM/2)= .60969
 b-rank test for bits  6 to 13 p=1-exp(-SUM/2)= .62964
 b-rank test for bits  7 to 14 p=1-exp(-SUM/2)= .89250
 b-rank test for bits  8 to 15 p=1-exp(-SUM/2)= .78444
 b-rank test for bits  9 to 16 p=1-exp(-SUM/2)= .55013
 b-rank test for bits 10 to 17 p=1-exp(-SUM/2)= .23741
 b-rank test for bits 11 to 18 p=1-exp(-SUM/2)= .03669
 b-rank test for bits 12 to 19 p=1-exp(-SUM/2)= .04415
 b-rank test for bits 13 to 20 p=1-exp(-SUM/2)= .62760
 b-rank test for bits 14 to 21 p=1-exp(-SUM/2)= .61393
 b-rank test for bits 15 to 22 p=1-exp(-SUM/2)= .96515
 b-rank test for bits 16 to 23 p=1-exp(-SUM/2)= .08958
 b-rank test for bits 17 to 24 p=1-exp(-SUM/2)= .41657
 b-rank test for bits 18 to 25 p=1-exp(-SUM/2)= .57191
 b-rank test for bits 19 to 26 p=1-exp(-SUM/2)= .88550
 b-rank test for bits 20 to 27 p=1-exp(-SUM/2)= .08824
 b-rank test for bits 21 to 28 p=1-exp(-SUM/2)= .71721
 b-rank test for bits 22 to 29 p=1-exp(-SUM/2)= .54291
 b-rank test for bits 23 to 30 p=1-exp(-SUM/2)= .67989
 b-rank test for bits 24 to 31 p=1-exp(-SUM/2)= .53742
 b-rank test for bits 25 to 32 p=1-exp(-SUM/2)= .17990
   TEST SUMMARY, 25 tests on 100,000 random 6x8 matrices
 These should be 25 uniform [0,1] random variables:
     .140129     .957865     .236846     .549372     .609694
     .629638     .892499     .784442     .550129     .237412
     .036688     .044150     .627598     .613930     .965150
     .089578     .416568     .571912     .885501     .088241
     .717215     .542912     .679889     .537418     .179904
   brank test summary for bigsimple.bin  
       The KS test for those 25 supposed UNI's yields
                    KS p-value= .206759
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
  No. missing words should average  141909. with sigma=428.
 tst no  1:  142384 missing words,    1.11 sigmas from mean, p-value= .86629
 tst no  2:  142777 missing words,    2.03 sigmas from mean, p-value= .97868
 tst no  3:  143026 missing words,    2.61 sigmas from mean, p-value= .99546
 tst no  4:  142308 missing words,     .93 sigmas from mean, p-value= .82420
 tst no  5:  142173 missing words,     .62 sigmas from mean, p-value= .73107
 tst no  6:  142022 missing words,     .26 sigmas from mean, p-value= .60382
 tst no  7:  141931 missing words,     .05 sigmas from mean, p-value= .52019
 tst no  8:  142314 missing words,     .95 sigmas from mean, p-value= .82780
 tst no  9:  141482 missing words,   -1.00 sigmas from mean, p-value= .15904
 tst no 10:  141443 missing words,   -1.09 sigmas from mean, p-value= .13796
 tst no 11:  141796 missing words,    -.26 sigmas from mean, p-value= .39559
 tst no 12:  142268 missing words,     .84 sigmas from mean, p-value= .79899
 tst no 13:  141365 missing words,   -1.27 sigmas from mean, p-value= .10172
 tst no 14:  142147 missing words,     .56 sigmas from mean, p-value= .71066
 tst no 15:  141423 missing words,   -1.14 sigmas from mean, p-value= .12792
 tst no 16:  142599 missing words,    1.61 sigmas from mean, p-value= .94645
 tst no 17:  142520 missing words,    1.43 sigmas from mean, p-value= .92318
 tst no 18:  141225 missing words,   -1.60 sigmas from mean, p-value= .05492
 tst no 19:  141413 missing words,   -1.16 sigmas from mean, p-value= .12310
 tst no 20:  141194 missing words,   -1.67 sigmas from mean, p-value= .04733
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
    OPSO for bigsimple.bin   using bits 23 to 32        141802  -.370  .3557
    OPSO for bigsimple.bin   using bits 22 to 31        141789  -.415  .3391
    OPSO for bigsimple.bin   using bits 21 to 30        141377 -1.836  .0332
    OPSO for bigsimple.bin   using bits 20 to 29        142196   .989  .8386
    OPSO for bigsimple.bin   using bits 19 to 28        142155   .847  .8015
    OPSO for bigsimple.bin   using bits 18 to 27        142171   .902  .8166
    OPSO for bigsimple.bin   using bits 17 to 26        141331 -1.994  .0231
    OPSO for bigsimple.bin   using bits 16 to 25        141565 -1.187  .1175
    OPSO for bigsimple.bin   using bits 15 to 24        141550 -1.239  .1077
    OPSO for bigsimple.bin   using bits 14 to 23        142197   .992  .8394
    OPSO for bigsimple.bin   using bits 13 to 22        141930   .071  .5284
    OPSO for bigsimple.bin   using bits 12 to 21        141593 -1.091  .1377
    OPSO for bigsimple.bin   using bits 11 to 20        141585 -1.118  .1317
    OPSO for bigsimple.bin   using bits 10 to 19        141418 -1.694  .0451
    OPSO for bigsimple.bin   using bits  9 to 18        141044 -2.984  .0014
    OPSO for bigsimple.bin   using bits  8 to 17        141908  -.005  .4982
    OPSO for bigsimple.bin   using bits  7 to 16        141648  -.901  .1838
    OPSO for bigsimple.bin   using bits  6 to 15        141884  -.087  .4652
    OPSO for bigsimple.bin   using bits  5 to 14        142362  1.561  .9407
    OPSO for bigsimple.bin   using bits  4 to 13        141924   .051  .5202
    OPSO for bigsimple.bin   using bits  3 to 12        141289 -2.139  .0162
    OPSO for bigsimple.bin   using bits  2 to 11        142145   .813  .7918
    OPSO for bigsimple.bin   using bits  1 to 10        141728  -.625  .2659
    OQSO for bigsimple.bin   using bits 28 to 32        142157   .840  .7994
    OQSO for bigsimple.bin   using bits 27 to 31        141539 -1.255  .1047
    OQSO for bigsimple.bin   using bits 26 to 30        141511 -1.350  .0885
    OQSO for bigsimple.bin   using bits 25 to 29        141902  -.025  .4901
    OQSO for bigsimple.bin   using bits 24 to 28        141674  -.798  .2125
    OQSO for bigsimple.bin   using bits 23 to 27        141837  -.245  .4032
    OQSO for bigsimple.bin   using bits 22 to 26        142276  1.243  .8931
    OQSO for bigsimple.bin   using bits 21 to 25        142511  2.040  .9793
    OQSO for bigsimple.bin   using bits 20 to 24        142223  1.063  .8562
    OQSO for bigsimple.bin   using bits 19 to 23        141683  -.767  .2215
    OQSO for bigsimple.bin   using bits 18 to 22        141936   .090  .5360
    OQSO for bigsimple.bin   using bits 17 to 21        141337 -1.940  .0262
    OQSO for bigsimple.bin   using bits 16 to 20        141959   .168  .5669
    OQSO for bigsimple.bin   using bits 15 to 19        141975   .223  .5881
    OQSO for bigsimple.bin   using bits 14 to 18        142166   .870  .8079
    OQSO for bigsimple.bin   using bits 13 to 17        141738  -.581  .2807
    OQSO for bigsimple.bin   using bits 12 to 16        141628  -.954  .1701
    OQSO for bigsimple.bin   using bits 11 to 15        141781  -.435  .3318
    OQSO for bigsimple.bin   using bits 10 to 14        142112   .687  .7540
    OQSO for bigsimple.bin   using bits  9 to 13        141920   .036  .5144
    OQSO for bigsimple.bin   using bits  8 to 12        141668  -.818  .2067
    OQSO for bigsimple.bin   using bits  7 to 11        141655  -.862  .1943
    OQSO for bigsimple.bin   using bits  6 to 10        141984   .253  .5999
    OQSO for bigsimple.bin   using bits  5 to  9        141585 -1.099  .1358
    OQSO for bigsimple.bin   using bits  4 to  8        142013   .351  .6374
    OQSO for bigsimple.bin   using bits  3 to  7        141833  -.259  .3979
    OQSO for bigsimple.bin   using bits  2 to  6        141671  -.808  .2096
    OQSO for bigsimple.bin   using bits  1 to  5        142007   .331  .6297
     DNA for bigsimple.bin   using bits 31 to 32        142254  1.017  .8454
     DNA for bigsimple.bin   using bits 30 to 31        142326  1.229  .8905
     DNA for bigsimple.bin   using bits 29 to 30        142408  1.471  .9294
     DNA for bigsimple.bin   using bits 28 to 29        142186   .816  .7928
     DNA for bigsimple.bin   using bits 27 to 28        141882  -.081  .4679
     DNA for bigsimple.bin   using bits 26 to 27        142132   .657  .7444
     DNA for bigsimple.bin   using bits 25 to 26        141958   .144  .5571
     DNA for bigsimple.bin   using bits 24 to 25        141857  -.154  .4387
     DNA for bigsimple.bin   using bits 23 to 24        141521 -1.146  .1260
     DNA for bigsimple.bin   using bits 22 to 23        142664  2.226  .9870
     DNA for bigsimple.bin   using bits 21 to 22        141448 -1.361  .0868
     DNA for bigsimple.bin   using bits 20 to 21        142090   .533  .7030
     DNA for bigsimple.bin   using bits 19 to 20        141867  -.125  .4503
     DNA for bigsimple.bin   using bits 18 to 19        141894  -.045  .4820
     DNA for bigsimple.bin   using bits 17 to 18        141463 -1.317  .0940
     DNA for bigsimple.bin   using bits 16 to 17        141587  -.951  .1708
     DNA for bigsimple.bin   using bits 15 to 16        142088   .527  .7009
     DNA for bigsimple.bin   using bits 14 to 15        141372 -1.585  .0565
     DNA for bigsimple.bin   using bits 13 to 14        141896  -.039  .4843
     DNA for bigsimple.bin   using bits 12 to 13        142256  1.023  .8468
     DNA for bigsimple.bin   using bits 11 to 12        141172 -2.175  .0148
     DNA for bigsimple.bin   using bits 10 to 11        141524 -1.137  .1278
     DNA for bigsimple.bin   using bits  9 to 10        141700  -.617  .2685
     DNA for bigsimple.bin   using bits  8 to  9        142180   .798  .7877
     DNA for bigsimple.bin   using bits  7 to  8        141782  -.376  .3536
     DNA for bigsimple.bin   using bits  6 to  7        142054   .427  .6652
     DNA for bigsimple.bin   using bits  5 to  6        142370  1.359  .9129
     DNA for bigsimple.bin   using bits  4 to  5        142032   .362  .6413
     DNA for bigsimple.bin   using bits  3 to  4        141471 -1.293  .0980
     DNA for bigsimple.bin   using bits  2 to  3        142013   .306  .6201
     DNA for bigsimple.bin   using bits  1 to  2        141754  -.458  .3234
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
   Test results for bigsimple.bin  
 Chi-square with 5^5-5^4=2500 d.of f. for sample size:2560000
                               chisquare  equiv normal  p-value
  Results fo COUNT-THE-1's in successive bytes:
 byte stream for bigsimple.bin    2480.79      -.272      .392963
 byte stream for bigsimple.bin    2544.61       .631      .735960
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
 Chi-square with 5^5-5^4=2500 d.of f. for sample size: 256000
                      chisquare  equiv normal  p value
  Results for COUNT-THE-1's in specified bytes:
           bits  1 to  8  2539.84       .563      .713407
           bits  2 to  9  2462.74      -.527      .299128
           bits  3 to 10  2475.45      -.347      .364216
           bits  4 to 11  2352.58     -2.085      .018545
           bits  5 to 12  2486.65      -.189      .425128
           bits  6 to 13  2473.02      -.382      .351384
           bits  7 to 14  2655.21      2.195      .985918
           bits  8 to 15  2536.20       .512      .695677
           bits  9 to 16  2532.48       .459      .677002
           bits 10 to 17  2314.27     -2.627      .004311
           bits 11 to 18  2605.76      1.496      .932629
           bits 12 to 19  2588.76      1.255      .895302
           bits 13 to 20  2486.16      -.196      .422396
           bits 14 to 21  2496.38      -.051      .479582
           bits 15 to 22  2425.24     -1.057      .145196
           bits 16 to 23  2490.05      -.141      .444052
           bits 17 to 24  2373.30     -1.792      .036578
           bits 18 to 25  2356.86     -2.024      .021470
           bits 19 to 26  2557.84       .818      .793310
           bits 20 to 27  2590.32      1.277      .899259
           bits 21 to 28  2467.57      -.459      .323273
           bits 22 to 29  2496.07      -.056      .477834
           bits 23 to 30  2530.74       .435      .668114
           bits 24 to 31  2474.58      -.360      .359599
           bits 25 to 32  2580.29      1.135      .871906
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
           CDPARK: result of ten tests on file bigsimple.bin  
            Of 12,000 tries, the average no. of successes
                 should be 3523 with sigma=21.9
            Successes: 3529    z-score:   .274 p-value: .607947
            Successes: 3521    z-score:  -.091 p-value: .463618
            Successes: 3526    z-score:   .137 p-value: .554479
            Successes: 3536    z-score:   .594 p-value: .723613
            Successes: 3517    z-score:  -.274 p-value: .392053
            Successes: 3539    z-score:   .731 p-value: .767486
            Successes: 3524    z-score:   .046 p-value: .518210
            Successes: 3513    z-score:  -.457 p-value: .323972
            Successes: 3541    z-score:   .822 p-value: .794438
            Successes: 3527    z-score:   .183 p-value: .572463
 
           square size   avg. no.  parked   sample sigma
             100.            3527.300        8.736
            KSTEST for the above 10: p=  .804330
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
               This is the MINIMUM DISTANCE test
              for random integers in the file bigsimple.bin  
     Sample no.    d^2     avg     equiv uni            
           5     .1930   1.0055     .176285
          10     .5596    .9379     .430160
          15    1.1844   1.0280     .695890
          20     .5422    .8555     .420105
          25     .9861    .9044     .628811
          30     .2861    .8935     .249863
          35     .1485    .9897     .138682
          40     .2950    .9306     .256592
          45     .6921    .8989     .501193
          50     .1139    .9307     .108141
          55    1.0898    .9325     .665562
          60     .0072    .9084     .007231
          65     .6066    .8989     .456462
          70     .7895    .9008     .547730
          75     .3097    .8698     .267450
          80     .4391    .8918     .356821
          85     .8823    .8699     .588018
          90     .2776    .9121     .243421
          95    1.3020    .9192     .729777
         100    2.3327    .9325     .904094
     MINIMUM DISTANCE TEST for bigsimple.bin  
          Result of KS test on 20 transformed mindist^2's:
                                  p-value= .157745
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
               The 3DSPHERES test for file bigsimple.bin  
 sample no:  1     r^3=  61.647     p-value= .87189
 sample no:  2     r^3=  61.307     p-value= .87043
 sample no:  3     r^3=  21.447     p-value= .51076
 sample no:  4     r^3=   2.684     p-value= .08559
 sample no:  5     r^3=   1.207     p-value= .03942
 sample no:  6     r^3=  12.684     p-value= .34479
 sample no:  7     r^3=  24.098     p-value= .55214
 sample no:  8     r^3=    .287     p-value= .00951
 sample no:  9     r^3=  68.533     p-value= .89817
 sample no: 10     r^3=  15.201     p-value= .39751
 sample no: 11     r^3=  37.780     p-value= .71616
 sample no: 12     r^3=  48.397     p-value= .80076
 sample no: 13     r^3=  26.584     p-value= .58775
 sample no: 14     r^3=  29.700     p-value= .62842
 sample no: 15     r^3=   8.969     p-value= .25841
 sample no: 16     r^3=  43.698     p-value= .76697
 sample no: 17     r^3=  61.285     p-value= .87034
 sample no: 18     r^3=  30.428     p-value= .63733
 sample no: 19     r^3=  54.608     p-value= .83802
 sample no: 20     r^3=  19.998     p-value= .48655
       3DSPHERES test for file bigsimple.bin        p-value= .595668
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
            RESULTS OF SQUEEZE TEST FOR bigsimple.bin  
         Table of standardized frequency counts
     ( (obs-exp)/sqrt(exp) )^2
        for j taking values <=6,7,8,...,47,>=48:
     2.0      .1     1.3     1.6      .8    -1.0
      .0     -.1    -2.2    -1.0    -1.9      .7
      .5     -.3      .9     -.4      .6    -1.3
      .5     -.8      .4     -.2     1.6     -.5
      .5     1.6     -.1      .0    -1.1     1.2
      .8      .6      .2    -1.0     -.1     2.2
      .3     1.1      .5    -1.8     -.6      .0
    -1.1
           Chi-square with 42 degrees of freedom: 45.808
              z-score=   .415  p-value= .683048
______________________________________________________________
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
                Test no.  1      p-value  .130689
                Test no.  2      p-value  .697905
                Test no.  3      p-value  .312460
                Test no.  4      p-value  .031315
                Test no.  5      p-value  .961343
                Test no.  6      p-value  .483192
                Test no.  7      p-value  .554386
                Test no.  8      p-value  .960960
                Test no.  9      p-value  .767135
                Test no. 10      p-value  .146497
   Results of the OSUM test for bigsimple.bin  
        KSTEST on the above 10 p-values:  .135933
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
           The RUNS test for file bigsimple.bin  
     Up and down runs in a sample of 10000
_________________________________________________ 
                 Run test for bigsimple.bin  :
       runs up; ks test for 10 p's: .368663
     runs down; ks test for 10 p's: .177188
                 Run test for bigsimple.bin  :
       runs up; ks test for 10 p's: .199189
     runs down; ks test for 10 p's: .860525
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
                Results of craps test for bigsimple.bin  
  No. of wins:  Observed Expected
                                98315    98585.86
 Chisq=  26.08 for 20 degrees of freedom, p=  .83666
               Throws Observed Expected  Chisq     Sum
            SUMMARY  FOR bigsimple.bin  
                p-value for no. of wins: .112863
                p-value for throws/game: .836658
  Test completed.  File bigsimple.bin  
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
:::::







honig@alum.mit.edu

   "Speech is not protected simply because it is written in a language"	
	Federal Misjudge Gwin on the Bernstein Case









From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: clarissa0p@hk.super.net
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 17:32:13 -0700 (PDT)
To: michele0tl@yahoo.com
Subject: Do you market on the Net?
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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_____________________________

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All lists are completely free of any Duplicates. We also on a continual
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The result is the Cleanest Email Addresses Available Anywhere 
to use over and over again, for a FRACTION of the cost that other 
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1 cent to as high as 3 cents per email address - that's
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Don't even hesitate on this one or you will miss out on the most 
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>>>As a special bonus we've included the entire suite of Earthonline
>>>bulk email and marketing software demos on the CD. Including
>>>the latest version of the DirectMail mailer. Use it free for 10 days !!
>>>You'll also get our  private Website address where you can check
>>> for product upgrades and other valuable marketing information.


To order our email package, simply print out the EZ ORDER FORM 
below and fax or mail it to our office today.

We accept Checks by Fax and Mail and C.O.D.

_________________
EZ Order Form 


_____Yes! I would like to order MILLIONS Vol. 1 email addresses 
for only $149.00.

All orders are sent by US Priority Mail and we pay the shipping costs!

ORDERING OPTIONS

*Mail (USPS)
   *Include a check or money order for the correct amount.
   *Make the check payable to:  Syrynx, Inc.
   *Include your phone number and/or email address in case we need to
   contact you. *Mail to:

       Syrynx, Inc.
       500 Lake Avenue
       Suite 154 
       Lake Worth, Florida  33460

*C.O.D.
   *Fill out the order form completely and write/type COD on the form.
   *Mail the form to the above address or fax to 305-418-7590 *Please have
   a certified/cashiers check or money order in the amount
    of $165.00 payable to Syrynx, Inc ready when the order arrives.
    The additonal $16.00 covers overnight shipping and C.O.D. fees.

*Fax
   *This is the preferred payment method at Syrynx, Inc.
   *ALL FUNDS ARE TO BE IN USA CURRENCY.
   *Your order can be received 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.
   *Print out and complete the following form.
   *To this form, attach a BLANK CHECK with "VOID" written
    somewhere on the body of the check.
   *This gives us the necessary account information to process your order.
   *Please note that Syrynx, Inc. charges a $40.00 fee for ALL BAD CHECKS.
   



Thank you for your order.

Syrynx, Inc.


          **********  MILLIONS VOL.1 ORDER FORM **********

*You must complete the entire form or your order can not be processed.
*You will need to tape the blank check in the space indicated below. *Fill
out and sign the authorization section below.

*Fax the ENTIRE FORM to (305) 418-7590.


*Please, print the following information.


First Name: _______________________________________________________

Last Name: _______________________________________________________

Street Address: ___________________________________________________

_________________________________________________________________

City: ____________________________________________________________

State: _____________________            Zip: _________________________

Phone Number:  __________________________________________________

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           * * * * * * * * * *  Authorization  * * * * * * * * * *
                        (leave blank for C.O.D. orders) 

I, ________________________________________________, hereby authorize
Syrynx, Inc. to withdraw $________________________ from my checking
account, account information enclosed, one time only, for the purchase of
the Millions Vol. 1 CD-ROM. I have read and I understand the terms and
conditions as stated above.  The signature below is the authorized
signature of the holder of the checking account.  I understand that
Syrynx, Inc. charges $40.00 for bad checks.  I understand that if the
funds are not available in my account, I agree to pay the amount of this
order plus the $40.00 fee. (Cash or Certified Funds Only).  Authorized
Signature _______________________________________________

Date: __________________ 

order code:mvi

*Attach voided, blank check below. (do not attach check for C.O.D. orders)















From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 11:55:16 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: CRTC asks if it should regulate the internet
Message-ID: <199808011855.UAA12259@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 10:37:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jeffrey Shallit
To: efc-talk@efc.ca
Subject: CRTC asks if it should regulate the internet
X-EFC-Web-Site: http://www.efc.ca


The front page of today's Globe & Mail has a story about the CRTC
asking if it should regulate the Internet.

The front page story directs you to page A4 for the remainder, which
is actually on page A3.

On page A3 an incorrect URL for the CRTC releases.  The correct ones
are:

	http://www.crtc.gc.ca/ENG/NEWS/RELEASES/1998/R980731e.htm

	(press release)


	http://www.crtc.gc.ca/ENG/bcasting/notice/1998/p9882_0.txt

	(public notice in English)

All EFC members should write and say they are opposed to CRTC regulation.

Unfortunately, I am scheduled to leave for vacation tomorrow, but David
Jones will post this and perhaps suggest some sample letters to write
to the CRTC.

EFC will plan to attend the public hearings on the issue on November 23
in Hull, Quebec.  

Jeffrey Shallit





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED/EUREKA! 
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 18:55:15 -0700 (PDT)
To: All Eureka/Stuffed Subscribers: ;
Subject: Fake fondler found out/Miss suckerator '98
Message-ID: <19980802081100.24689.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Welcome to  today's  issue of Stuffed. To read it you should
click on the URL below.  If it is not made clickable by your
email program  you will need to  use your mouse to highlight
the line,  copy it and then paste it into your browser (then
press Return).

http://stuffed.net/98/8/2/

If you  have an email program that can display web pages you
will find today's front cover should have already been disp-
layed and can be clicked on to take you straight to Stuffed.

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: sahazali@ew.mimos.my
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 00:24:35 -0700 (PDT)
To: sahazali@ew.mimos.my
Subject: Find out what "They" don't want you to know!!!
Message-ID: <01658742211308922@g_hipkernia.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Dear Friend:

If you have already responded to the following announcement a few
days ago, that means your package is already on its way and it
should be arriving soon! If you have not responded to this before,
please pay attention to it now. This is very important!!!

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT
IMPORTANT ACCOUNCEMENT
 '''''''''''''''''''''''''''
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
 '''''''''''''''''''''''''''
Your future May Depend on it !
 
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Before you know about this 'Important Announcement', you must
first read the following 'Editorial Excerpts' from some important
publications in the United States:

NBC NIGHTLY NEWS: "Members of 'World Currency Cartel', who 
always keep a low profile, are considered to be some of the most
wealthiest people in North America".

 "In concluding our review of Financial organizations to effect 
change in the 90's, special attention should be called to a California based 
organization, 'WORLD CURRENCY CARTEL'. Members of this 
organization are amassing hundred of millions of dollars in the currency 
market using a very LEGAL method which has NEVER been divulged to 
the general public.  While their purpose is not yet known, their presence 
has most certainly been felt".
 

More excerpts later, but first let us give you this very
'IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT":
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

We are glad to announce that for the first time and for a very
short period of time, WORLD CURRENCY CARTEL will instruct a
LIMITED number of people worldwide on 'HOW TO CONVERT $25 INTO ONE
HUNDRED OF LEGAL CURRENCY'. We will transact the first conversion
for you, after that you can easily and quickly do this on your own
hundreds or even thousands of times every month.
TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THIS "SECRET FLAW" !
******************************************************************
******************************************************************

 
It is even more explosive than we have yet disclosed. While
currency does fluctuate daily, we can show you 'HOW TO CONVERT $99
INTO $588 AS MANY TIMES AS YOU WANT'. That means, you will be able
to EXCHANGE $99, AMERICAN LEGAL CURRENCY DOLLARS, FOR $580 OF THE
SAME. You can do this as many times as you wish, every day, every
week, every month. All very LEGAL and effortlessly!
 
It takes only 5 to 10 minutes each time you do this. You can do
this from home, office or even while traveling. All you need is
an access to a phone line and an address. Best of all, you can do
this from ANY CITY ON THIS EARTH!!!
 
Again, we must reiterate, anyone can do this and the source is
NEVER-ENDING. For as long as the global financial community
continues to use different currencies with varying exchange rates,
the "SECRET FLAW" will exist.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
As we said earlier , we will do the first transaction for you and
will show you exactly how to do this on your own, over and over
again!
 
The amount of exchange you would do each time is entirely up to
you. Working just 2 to 10 hours a week, you can soon join the list
of Millionaires who do this on a daily basis many times a day. The
transaction is so simple that even a high school kid can do it!
 
We at the World Currency Cartel would like to see a uniform global
currency backed by Gold. But, until then, we will allow a LIMITED
number of individuals worldwide to share in the UNLIMITED PROFITS
provided for by the world currency differentials.
 
We will espouse no more political views nor will we ask you to do
so. We can say however, that our parent organization, NDML,
benefits greatly by the knowledge being shared, as we
ourselves, along with YOU, benefit likewise. Your main concern
surely will be, how you will benefit.

As soon as you become a member, you will make transactions from
your home, office, by telephone or through the mail. You can
conduct these transactions even while traveling.

Don't believe us? Experience it for yourself!
  ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
Unlike anyone else, we will assure you great financial freedom and
you will add to our quickly growing base of supporters and join
the list of MILLIONAIRES being created using this very "SECRET
FLAW" in the world currency market.
******************************************************************
******************************************************************


DON'T ENVY US, JOIN US TODAY!!!
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

There is a one time membership fee of only $195. BUT, if you join
us by Aug 15th, 1998, you can join us for only $25 administrative cost. 
Your important documents, instructions, contact name/address, phone
number and all other pertinent information will be mailed to you
immediately. So take advantage and join us today.
 
(If you are replying after Aug 15th, you must pay $195.00 for
the membership fee. NO EXCEPTIONS, and no more E-mail inquiries
please).

Upon becoming a member, you promise to keep all infos
CONFIDENTIAL!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Should you choose to cancel your membership for any reason, you
must return all papers/documents for a refund within 60 days.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~--
 
IMPORTANT:
****************
 
1...Please write your name & mailing address VERY CLEARLY on a
     paper
2...Below your mailing address, please write your E-mail address
3...At the top left hand corner, please write the words "NEW
     MEMBER" 
4...Attach a CHECK or MONEY ORDER for $25 + $10 for the shipping 
     and handling of documents (TOTAL = $35.00)  Outside US add $10 (TOTAL  = $45) 
     PAYABLE TO "EBSN" and mail to:

                  
                    EBSN
                    PO BOX 66
                    ROSELLE PARK, NJ 07204
                 
 
}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} }}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Here are some more 'Editorial Excerpts':
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
WALL STREET: "A discreet group of Americans, operating under the
guise of World Currency Cartel have recently begun making rumbles in
world finance market. While at this time, their game is not completely
known, they certainly will be watched by those making major moves in the
currency contracts".

FINANCIAL WEEK: "Watch them, monitor them, extract their knowledge
and try to become one of them. That is the soundest financial
advice we could give to anyone".

NATIONAL BUSINESS WEEKLY: "While this reporter has been left in
the cold as to its method of operation, we have been able to
confirm that 'World Currency Cartel' and its members are literally
amassing great fortunes overnight".

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$END$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.
 We thankfully credit DIAMOND INT. for the content of this
 IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT.
 






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 14:02:44 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: commercial cryptanalysis software
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980802133653.007c5e90@m7.sprynet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


	
http://www.dgsciences.com/codeclas.htm

Seems to be commercial TLA tools.



honig@alum.mit.edu

   "Speech is not protected simply because it is written in a language"	
	Federal Misjudge Gwin on the Bernstein Case









From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Count of Monte Carlo" 
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 13:59:26 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Enough to make you puke: gore on privacy
Message-ID: <19980802205852.8900.qmail@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



`one of the worst things to happen to privacy since Alan Funt'






Friday July 31 12:24 PM EDT 

Gore Seeks New Web Privacy Laws

TED BRIDIS Associated Press Writer



WASHINGTON (AP) - Calling privacy a ``basic American value,'' Vice 
President Al Gore pressed today for new federal laws to prevent 
companies from collecting personal information from children who use 
Internet Web sites, chat rooms and e-mail. 

Among its first steps toward crafting an ``Electronic Bill of Rights,'' 
the Clinton administration also wants to suspend plans to assign every 
American a health-care ID number and proposed a new role for the Office 
of Management and Budget in writing privacy rules. 

Gore said citizens' rights to decide whether to allow companies to 
collect personal information, dictate what type of data is collected and 
review it for accuracy ``do not have sufficient protections by a long 
shot.'' 

Gore, who first described such a bill of rights in May, pressed for new 
laws against identity fraud and for new protections of consumer credit 
reports. 

``Privacy is a basic American value, in the information age and in every 
age,'' Gore said. ``It must be protected. We need an electronic bill of 
rights for this electronic age.'' 

Gore said the announcements ``will make technology consistent with 
America's oldest values.'' 

Privacy has become a politically popular issue, amid growing concern 
among Americans about high-tech intrusions into their personal lives. 

``We're beginning to see the flesh put on the bones,'' said Deirdre 
Mulligan, a privacy specialist at the Center for Democracy and 
Technology in Washington. ``These are very specific proposals that 
respond to issues that advocates and the public have raised.'' 

Critics have complained about a 1996 law that would assign everyone a 
computer number to track health care from birth to death, noting that it 
allows insurance companies, doctors, drug stores and others to release 
medical records for broadly defined ``health care operations.'' 

Gore today called it ``one of the worst things to happen to privacy 
since Alan Funt,'' who created the ``Candid Camera'' television series. 

``It appears the White House is at least beginning to take privacy 
seriously,'' said Barry Steinhardt, president of the Electronic Frontier 
Foundation, a civil liberties group. He called it ``a very important 
step that significantly improves the outlook for medical privacy.'' 

Children on the Internet would find new protections under Gore's plans. 

Federal regulators said this summer that many companies collect personal 
information from children online, sometimes asking for their names and 
e-mail addresses - even questions about their personal finances - using 
animated characters or as an incentive to join a contest or play a game. 

``You don't do business with an 11-year-old without parental consent,'' 
said Robert Pitofsky, chairman of the Federal Trade Commission, which 
already has asked Congress for new laws limiting how Web sites collect 
information from kids. 

``The information that is requested on these Web sites appears to be so 
innocent, very harmless,'' said Sen. Richard Bryan, D-Nev., who 
introduced a bill that would require companies to obtain a parent's 
permission before they collect information from children under 12. ``But 
they do invade a family's privacy and raise safety concerns.'' 

The White House is not calling for relaxed restrictions on powerful 
data-scrambling technology, called encryption, which helps keep e-mail 
and other messages confidential but also can be used by criminals. 

``On the main privacy issues, the ones that confront the country today, 
the administration is still reluctant to make the hard decisions,'' said 
Marc Rotenberg, executive director of the Electronic Privacy Information 
Center, which has lobbied for broader use of encryption. 

The administration also is pledging its support for the online industry 
to find ways to better protect the privacy of adults on the Web, such as 
recent efforts by the Online Privacy Alliance, a newly formed group of 
50 companies and trade groups that include Microsoft, America Online and 
IBM. 

Gore recently warned computer industry executives that if 
self-regulation does not work, ``we will be obliged to take action 
ourselves.'' The FTC told Congress it should pass tough new privacy laws 
for adults if the industry's own efforts do not improve by year's end. 

Advocates generally praised plans for the new federal privacy office, 
but noted that OMB - the new office's parent agency - has itself been 
criticized for failing to enforce existing federal privacy laws. 



______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED/EUREKA! 
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 06:24:09 -0700 (PDT)
To: All Eureka/Stuffed Subscribers: ;
Subject: Fake fondler found out/Miss suckerator '98
Message-ID: <19980802151300.21971.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Welcome to  today's  issue of Stuffed. To read it you should
click on the URL below.  If it is not made clickable by your
email program  you will need to  use your mouse to highlight
the line,  copy it and then paste it into your browser (then
press Return).

http://stuffed.net/98/8/2/

If you  have an email program that can display web pages you
will find today's front cover should have already been disp-
layed and can be clicked on to take you straight to Stuffed.

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: windy 
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 20:25:19 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: pcanywhere
In-Reply-To: <199808011921.PAA06390@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <35C4F428.693E540D@gloryroad.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


    I was wondering if any of you could help me find a copy of a great
little program called PcAnywhere....

any help and/or comments would be appreciated...

loner





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 23:39:38 -0700 (PDT)
To: windy 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980802233729.00c43140@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 11:20 PM 8/2/98 +0000, windy wrote:
>    I was wondering if any of you could help me find a copy of a great
>little program called PcAnywhere....
>
>any help and/or comments would be appreciated...

It's a commercial program - try Egghead.

				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Reeza! 
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 07:33:55 -0700 (PDT)
To: "Bernardo B. Terrado" 
Subject: Re: question...
In-Reply-To: <199807310655.IAA08821@replay.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980803003232.008ce720@205.83.192.13>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 05:18 PM 03 08 98 +0800, Bernardo B. Terrado wrote:
>I tried to access the document but
>I only got an error message.
>
>Is it still online?
>
>The file....  GTMHH1-4.html     is it 1 or  l(letter).

Is WHAT 1 or l(letter)?
You didn't provide a 	Utterly
				Rancid
				Location

that a trouble shooter could use to trouble shoot your difficulty.
You must be a,,,,,, a,,,,,,, a,,,,,, a CypherPunk.

Reeza!




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "kryz" 
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 07:54:52 -0700 (PDT)
To: "Siferpunqs" 
Subject: Fw: commercial cryptanalysis software
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980802133653.007c5e90@m7.sprynet.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


That's devastating!
Let me add a little point to this (see === below):

----------
: Date: zondag 2 augustus 1998 20:36:53 
: From: David Honig
: To: Ciferpunqs
: Subject: commercial cryptanalysis software
: 
: 	
: http://www.dgsciences.com/codeclas.htm
: 
: Seems to be commercial TLA tools.
: 
: 
: 
: honig@alum.mit.edu
: 
:    "Speech is not protected simply because it is written in a language"	
=== .. .. ... ...			language." (That's the point...)
: 	Federal Misjudge Gwin on the Bernstein Case






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Cook 
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 01:18:17 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: RFC re simple anti-censorship strategy
Message-ID: <3.0.3.16.19980803041803.483765ba@panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


(copy posted to alt.cypherpunks)

Motivated by Chiquita's recent censorship of the Cincinnati Inquirer -- and
more generally by the challenge of making suppressed documents available on
the web without exposing webmasters or their ISPs to legal liability --
I've developed a simple strategy.  The approach is similar to Adam Back's
Eternity Service in that it combines anonymous posts to Usenet with a
news-to-web interface.  Unlike Adam's approach, posts are not encrypted --
and are therefore easier to find and cancel.  OTOH, this approach is
easier, and does not require root privileges, to implement

Please see  for the
demonstration.  I welcome comments.


Jim Cook 
Consulting in the Public Interest 
Home 
Info re Globalization 
PGP Public Key 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: patti468@hotmail.com
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 02:36:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Don't Miss These!
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Attention!
Warning! Adults Only!                    Warning! Adults Only!

If you are under 21 years of age, or not interested in sexually 
explicit material... please hit your keyboard delete button now
and please excuse the intrusion.  To REMOVE your name from our email list, simply send us email with REMOVE in the subject line.  You need not read any further!

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The Uncensored Authentic Underground...
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Everyone is talking about this exciting video!  See Pam and 
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED/EUREKA! 
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 23:21:37 -0700 (PDT)
To: All Eureka/Stuffed Subscribers: ;
Subject: Angry stripper pees on punter/Girlz Toyz/Topless teens
Message-ID: <19980803080000.25399.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Welcome to  today's  issue of Stuffed. To read it you should
click on the URL below.  If it is not made clickable by your
email program  you will need to  use your mouse to highlight
the line,  copy it and then paste it into your browser (then
press Return).

http://stuffed.net/98/8/3/

If you  have an email program that can display web pages you
will find today's front cover should have already been disp-
layed and can be clicked on to take you straight to Stuffed.

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ZeroInt 
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 07:23:58 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: commercial cryptanalysis software
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980802133653.007c5e90@m7.sprynet.com>
Message-ID: <199808031423.HAA07894@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Speaking of which,

I have been trying to find some cryptanalisys software for a while now, but no
luck.  Does anyone have a url for me?

Regards 
PGP Fingerprints:
99EB 330B B517 F5A3  CDD3 875D CDB6 8621 - 0x2A47CAAF
BCBF 8B61 551E 4A75 C3A7  9192 C158 0774 EB5A 746D - 0xEB5A746D

PGP encrypted mail preferred 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Richard Storey 
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 09:06:29 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Anonymous phone calls
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <35C5E0C7.CEF4F93D@earthlink.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Trei, Peter wrote:
> 
>         Bill Stewart [SMTP:bill.stewart@pobox.com] wrote:
> 
>         >At 05:49 PM 8/2/98 -0700, scoops wrote:
>         >>Would some one be kind enough to suggest anonymous phone
>         >>call services?
>         >>I know about some supposedly untraceable 900# at $3.95 per
>         >>minute.  What about an anonymous prepaid service 800# or a
>         >>calling card.
> 
>         >Sure - there's a much cheaper, easier approach.  Go buy a
>         >phone card.  There are some phone cards that insist on being
>         >recharged by credit card, but there are lots that you can
>         >buy at your local convenience store that don't insist on it,
>         >and the ones at ethnic grocery stores which let you call
>         >Mexico or China at moderately outrageous rates are more
>         >likely to be cash-only.  Or you can go to your airport (if
>         >you're not too paranoid about Them watching you :-) and buy
>         >phone cards like The Official San Francisco Phone Card, in
>         >return for US$20 bills.
> 
>         At about the same effort, you can be even more secure. Use
>         cash.  Change your $20 bill for a couple rolls of quarters
>         and walk up to any pay phone that takes coins. Put in a
>         quarter, and dial your number. You'll hear something like
>         'Please insert $3.50 for the first three minutes.' Shove in
>         the coins, and talk. Works fine for long distance as well as
>         local calls. Much cheaper than the 900#.
> 
>         If you use a calling card for more than a single call, those
>         calls can be linked to each other. It may also be possible
>         to trace where the card was sold.
> 
>         Peter Trei
>         ptrei@securitydynamics.com


Also, even the private-switch operations selling cash-paid calling cards
have records of the calls made on their systems, though those records
might not be in a form that makes them readily linkable to the orginator
of a given call--it all depends on how much it's worth to the pursuer to
pursue you.

Richard Storey




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Joseph 'Anonymous' Howe" 
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 08:54:48 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: none
Message-ID: <8137729480121adbaf72c2ba4324be17@privacy.nb.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Yea, well that's been a problem for years now, which makes it no less relevant today, but it's hardly news.

The author calls this condition at state of war.  He's quite right.  If the tyrant has any opposition it's
from the criminal class, with the liberty squad standing mainly on the side lines giving an occassional 
muffled cheer and sometimes looking on to see what kind of tactics are being used by the crooks with hopes
that they might learn some tactics they were not brave enough to employ themselves.

I do not, however, know of any war waged successfully where the opposition is as scattered as the liberty crowd is,
therefore, it is being waged on an individual basis with technology, stealth, and the occassional
government that has yet to bend its knee to Uncle Sammy (which, by the way, are becoming fewer, not more).
        







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: CTIA Daily News 
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 12:41:23 -0700 (PDT)
To: CTIA Daily News 
Subject: CTIA Daily News from WOW-COM - August 3, 1998
Message-ID: <199808031928.OAA29890@mailstrom.revnet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




==========================================
Welcome to today's edition of the CTIA Daily News
from WOW-COM.  Please click on the icon / attachment
for the most important news in wireless communications today.

A new multi-billion dollar industry is here! 
Be at CTIA's WIRELESS I.T. '98
where personal computing and communications converge!

Don't Miss Your Chance -- October 12-14, 1998
Bally's Las Vegas, Las Vegas, NV

For more information, visit http://www.wirelessit.com 
===========================================

 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Nina Huupponen 
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 05:50:11 -0700 (PDT)
To: F-Secure-Press-Global@DataFellows.com
Subject: Data Fellows introduces F-Secure NameSurfer version 2.0
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980803150022.00b3bbd0@smtp.datafellows.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


For immediate release
3 August 1998

DATA FELLOWS INTRODUCES F-SECURE NAMESURFER VERSION 2.0

Helsinki, Finland, August 3rd, 1998 -- Data Fellows, the global leader in
Internet security solutions, has today announced F-Secure Namesurfer 2.0, a
new version of its DNS (Domain Name System) management tool.  

DNS translates host names to IP addresses, which makes it a critical
component of IP-based networks. F-Secure NameSurfer provides network
managers with an easy-to-use Web interface for DNS administration, saving
time and maintenance resources. Its intuitive graphical user interface and
automatic error checking prevent network managers from generating faulty
DNS data. Faulty DNS data can bring down an entire IP network, so accurate
DNS data is essential for reliable and secure intranets and Internet. 

F-Secure NameSurfer 2.0 has been extensively restructured to achieve
peerless performance, especially in large DNS installations. 

The new version can prevent a network manager from creating records with IP
addresses that fall outside his own network. Thus, ISPs can grant their
customers permission to change addresses, with the assurance that customers
will stay within their own network zone.

F-Secure NameSurfer provides significant savings in network management. The
intuitive interface reduces the time needed to create DNS configurations.
The configurations can be done remotely and by several network managers
with personal administration rights. Routine tasks can be delegated to
clerical staff. Ultimately, even end-users and ISP customers can manage
their own DNS data, using a Web browser. 

Prime target customers for F-Secure Name Surfer are telecommunication
operators, Internet Service Providers (ISPs), and other organizations that
need the best tool in the market to manage Internet or intranet security.
NameSurfer users include ISPs (such as US WEST !NTERACT, Concentric Network
Corp., and FUNET - the Finnish University and Research Network), and
international corporations (such as Barclays Bank PLC, Motorola, and
UPM-Kymmene). 

F-Secure NameSurfer 2.0 will be available from Data Fellows' resellers
around the world in September 1998. The product will be available for all
popular UNIX platforms. Pricing will start at $990. 

About Data Fellows 

Data Fellows is one of the world's leading developers of data security
software. The company's ground-breaking F-Secure products provide a unique
combination of globally available strong encryption and revolutionary
anti-virus software. The integrated F-Secure software family provides
complete security solutions for enterprises of any size. It includes file
encryption and IPsec communication encryption products, VPN gateways,
SSH-based secure remote management software, easy-to-use solutions for
distributed DNS management, and a full range of anti-virus products for
workstations, servers and gateways.

Data Fellows is the developer of the award-winning F-PROT Professional
anti-virus product, whose scanning engine is an integral part of the
multiple engine structure of F-Secure Anti-Virus.

Data Fellows has offices in San Jose, California, and Helsinki, Finland. It
maintains a worldwide network of technical support, training and
distribution in over 80 countries. 

Since the company was founded in 1988, its annual net sales growth has
consistently been over 80%. Data Fellows belongs to an elite group of
companies with a triple-A rating from Dun & Bradstreet. The company is
privately owned. 

For further information, please contact:  

USA: 

Data Fellows Inc. 
Mr. Pirkka Palomaki, Product Manager 
Tel. +1 408 938 6700  
Fax +1 408 938 6701 
E-mail: Pirkka.Palomaki@DataFellows.com

Europe: 

Data Fellows Oy 
Mr. Jukka Kotovirta, Director of Sales 
PL 24 
FIN-02231 ESPOO 
Tel. +358 9 859 900 
Fax +358 9 8599 0599 
E-mail: Jukka.Kotovirta@DataFellows.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 06:03:26 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: question...
Message-ID: <199808031303.PAA13754@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



http://newdata.box.sk/neworder/harmless/GTMHH1-4.TXT
http://newdata.box.sk/neworder/harmless/GTMHH1-5.TXT

If those two don't work try:

http://neworder.box.sk/cgi-bin/marek/box/box?pwd=&prj=neworder&gfx=neworder&txt=%23Guide+to+%28mostly%29+harmless+hacking&key=gtmhh&fil=*&lan=e&userpwd=

this will give you a long list of hacking texts.  Scroll down to 1-4
and 1-5 on how to get spammers kicked off their ISP :)

---"Bernardo B. Terrado"  wrote:
>
> I tried to access the document but
> I only got an error message.
> 
> Is it still online?
> 
> 
> The file....  GTMHH1-4.html     is it 1 or  l(letter).
> 
> Thanks!!
> 
> 
> Bernie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>
===============================================================================
> You give the words  you have spoken,
>    it is not lended and are not taken back.
> It is like what The Corrs sung "...you're forgiven not forgotten...."
> 
> bbt@mudspring.uplb.edu.ph
> bbt@peak-two.uplb.edu.ph
> metaphone@altavista.net
> 
> 
> 

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 06:15:22 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Question....
Message-ID: <199808031315.PAA15001@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





---"Bernardo B. Terrado"  wrote:
>
> How does a hardware encryption device work?
> 

If the Encryption is done on a device attached to your computer
instead of in software on your computer.


> 
> Does it need human intervention to convert a plaintext to ciphertext
> or do we still give the instructions?


Depends on the device.  But most require some effort.

> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong, the key escrow is a hardware encryption
device.
> 

Key Escrow is an action taken by the government to collect or gain
access to private keys.  There was some controversy as to the clipper
chip which is hardware falling prey to key escrow however.

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 15:23:59 -0700 (PDT)
To: senator@torricelli.senate.gov
Subject: Mitchell  8/3/98 14:18 phone conversation
Message-ID: <35C63730.1C43@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Monday 8/3/98 3:41 PM

FAX

Jan Elizabeth Mitchell
Assistant U.S. Attorney
U.S. Department of Justice
United States Attorney
District of New Mexico
Post Office Box 607
Albuquerque, NM 87103
505/346-7274
505/766-2868
FAX 505/346-7205

Dear Ms Mitchell:

Purpose of the fax is to 

1  review points covered in our 8/3/98 14:18 phone conversation
2  suggest settlement.

You phoned me today.

You told me that you planned to file a motion or response to the Tenth
circuit's
request Morales and my response to the jurisdictional issue on the 21st
of August.

I told you that this was premature on your part since we had moved for a
second time
for an extension of time.

I told you also that this matter was now before congress.

You appeared to indicate to me that you were in the process of adding
both Morales and
Minihan as named parties in this appeal.

You asked me if it would be agreeable to us if you filed a response to
the Tenth circuit
21 days AFTER Morales and I filed our response to the Tenth circuit on
the jurisdictional
issue.

I AGREED.

I spoke to Morales on the phone shortly after our phone conversation.

Arguing points of law before court clerks and judges who have
outstanding criminal complaint
affidavits for crimes COMMITTED IN WRITING againtst them would be
unproductive on Morales and my part.

Therefore, we will proceed to resolve the criminal conduct on the part
of judges and court clerks
before we proceed further in this matter.

We will do this at the Congressional level.

Senate Judiciary Committe chairman Orrin Hatch, unfortunately, failed to
properly process a valid
complaint on New Mexico district court chief judge John Conway in 1995. 
http://www.jya.com/whp071598.htm

Hatch's failure to properly respond in 1995, in large part, caused our
current legal conflict with DIR NSA Minihan.

We foresee an unfortunate escalation of hostilities if this matter
proceeds as it is.  

We do not wish this.

We seek settlement of the UNFORTUNATE matter at the earliest time.

We ask your and Congressional help to settle this UNFORTUNATE matter
before it gets WORSE.

If I have made any essential material errors in reporting my impression
of the contents of our conversation, then I would appreciate you giving
your impression of possible errors.  

You can do this in the letter you said you would write to us.

Sincerely,


bill payne
13015 Calle de Sandias NE          	        
Albuquerque, NM 87111              	        

Distribution

Senate Judiciary Committee   e-mail
Arthur R Morales e-mail






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Bernardo B. Terrado" 
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 01:34:25 -0700 (PDT)
To: Anonymous 
Subject: Question....
In-Reply-To: <199807310655.IAA08821@replay.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


How does a hardware encryption device work?


Does it need human intervention to convert a plaintext to ciphertext
or do we still give the instructions?

Correct me if I'm wrong, the key escrow is a hardware encryption device.


That's all for now, thanks.



Bernie





===============================================================================
You give the words  you have spoken,
   it is not lended and are not taken back.
It is like what The Corrs sung "...you're forgiven not forgotten...."







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Bernardo B. Terrado" 
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 02:19:05 -0700 (PDT)
To: Anonymous 
Subject: question...
In-Reply-To: <199807310655.IAA08821@replay.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I tried to access the document but
I only got an error message.

Is it still online?


The file....  GTMHH1-4.html     is it 1 or  l(letter).

Thanks!!


Bernie





===============================================================================
You give the words  you have spoken,
   it is not lended and are not taken back.
It is like what The Corrs sung "...you're forgiven not forgotten...."

bbt@mudspring.uplb.edu.ph
bbt@peak-two.uplb.edu.ph
metaphone@altavista.net






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: william cane 
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 01:58:54 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Hi! I'm only 12 years old
Message-ID: <35C6CBD4.FDE@worldnet.att.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Do you really have this much time on your hands? Man yer gonna attract
the wrong attention by saying that shit, your not a very convincing 12
year old, I can see the monster glow in your eyes, the same one my
sister met that day in the park.  If you are 12, and are really as
stupid as I think you are, and want to meet the 38 year old monster in
the park, Then I say go for it, hell its not like i or anyone else
really give a shit about you anyway.  And if you think this is cool,
then you are way the fuck off base.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1998 19:06:09 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199808040206.EAA31716@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


> 	Actually, Hamre said that US companies have no Gawd-Given Right to
> _export_ strong crypto. See:
> http://www.wired.com/news/news/technology/story/14098.html

Oh, it's sick anyhow...

A couple excerpts from jya's transcript:

On the EFF DES cracker: Now, I need to explain first of all, that the
government is currently permitting the export of 56 bit encryption
algorithms.  Now, I know that there's some huffing and puffing about
whether that's strong encryption or not. But again, I say let's put this
in context.  There was a flap here the other day when, ta-da, somebody
invented a computer that could break 56 bit encryption in 30 hours or 40
hours or whatever the time was, right.  You took 40 hours to decrypt a
two-second message.  And it was good only for that one message.  You've
got to start all over again on the next two-second message.  Tell me that
that isn't strong encryption.

[Secretary Hamre, that isn't strong encryption. Weak enough that cracking
DES keys for two grand each -- reasonable price considering some of the
applications using DES -- can be a viable business for the shady hacker
type, in fact. Pays for your parts in ten months, pocket most everything
else until the machine breaks.]


On export controls: "...I'd also ask American business not to make a
campaign out of just trying to bust through export controls as though
somehow there was a God-given, inherent right to send the strongest
encryption to anybody in the world, no matter who they are.  I don't agree
with that.  I will never agree with that."

["I will never agree with that" -- I'd say we're talking to an open-minded
individual who's really trying to work things out, eh?]

> 
> 	Which, despite all the damage control and spin waves that followed
> the initial report in WiRed, does not mean that the NSA and DoD believe
> that anyone has been granted some privilege to speak in confidence that
> they, being reverent and religious fellows, should and must respect.
> 
> 	Much ado about nothing, here!
> 
> 	The first (perhaps literally erroneous) WiRed News report -- that
> senior DoD officials do not believe that any two people anywhere in the
> world have a perfect and unassailable right to speak in confidence and
> secrecy -- was spot on accurate and true.
> 
> 
> -----
> "Cryptography is like literacy in the Dark Ages. Infinitely potent, for
> good and ill... yet basically an intellectual construct, an idea, which by
> its nature will resist efforts to restrict it to bureaucrats and others who
> deem only themselves worthy of such Privilege."
> _ A Thinking man's Creed for Crypto _vbm.
> 
>  *     Vin McLellan + The Privacy Guild +     *
>       53 Nichols St., Chelsea, MA 02150 USA <617> 884-5548






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mixmaster 
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 04:42:37 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199808041113.EAA14059@sirius.infonex.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


What characteristics make a jurisdiction (sovereign power) a good "safe-haven?"





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Rabid Wombat 
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 22:08:47 -0700 (PDT)
To: Maurice Valmont 
Subject: Re: Mysterious taglines
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980805235420.0072fa34@mail.fundi.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




On Wed, 5 Aug 1998, Maurice Valmont wrote:

> At 04:55 PM 8/5/98 -0700, Tim May  wrote in his .sig:
> 
> 
> >Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
> >anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
> >knowledge, reputations, information markets,
> >black markets, collapse of governments.
> 
> I'm curious: What exactly is "zero knowledge"?

I cannot discuss that here, as Tim May will likely enter the discussion 
to enforce his intellectual property rights and remind us that he 
discussed this before the rest of us were born. All worthwhile 
discussions of cryptography were held prior to 1994. This list is to be 
henceforth used for the posting of long rambling prose induced by the 
inhaling of household chemicals. Contact sniffmonger toto, check the 
archives, and bring me another scotch.

"I know nutzhing! NUTZHING!"
SGT Schultz
Stalag 13

I'd like to tell you, but I cannot tell you that which you do not already 
know.

Where on the 'net are Tartaglia and Cardano? How about Hakken and 
Appel? How many colors do you need to color a map, such that no two 
regions that share a boundary also share a color? Have I screwed up, and 
in my effort to prove to you that I know the secret, perhaps revealed it 
to you after all?






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED/EUREKA! 
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 20:17:13 -0700 (PDT)
To: All Eureka/Stuffed Subscribers: ;
Subject: Clinton shafted by a dress?/The art of cyber seduction
Message-ID: <19980804080001.3828.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Welcome to  today's  issue of Stuffed. To read it you should
click on the URL below.  If it is not made clickable by your
email program  you will need to  use your mouse to highlight
the line,  copy it and then paste it into your browser (then
press Return).

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This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 07:06:14 -0700 (PDT)
To: kalliste@aci.net
Subject: Whom they will destroy they first make mad.
Message-ID: <35C7145D.5D03@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Tuesday 8/4/98 7:45 AM

J Orlin Grabbe

I liked your article. http://www.aci.net/kalliste/apocalyp.htm

Reminds me of one of my favorite books.  The Great Crash by John Kenneth
Galbraith.

Since you are a Harvard grad, mathematician Garrett Birkhoff bought
me lunch at the Harvard faculty club in about 1976.

We were making plans to get a machine combinatoric and stochastic
algorithm subprogram library written.  Like LINPACK, etc.

But NSA killed that project and my NSF grant DCR75-08822.  See Bruce
Barns, the Puzzle Palace by James Bamford.

We returned from Durango on Monday afternoon.

I have some INSIDE news from the wife of a former AF base commander in
Turkey about

	1  Ron Brown's flight
	2  Khobar towers

1  The AF warned the White House not to fly Brown's flight because of
bad weather. Advice issued from Ramstein. Advice ignored.

White House removed Ramstein AF base commander.

2  AF base commander was removed for the Khobar incident although base
commander had nothing to do with lack of security.

Former Kirland AFB and new base commander are buddies with our friends
in Durango.

I think that we have made the government MAD.
http://jya.com/whpfiles.htm

Wayland told me yesterday that the Texas A&M profs went over the reasons
for
rejection of their SBIR grant.

One of the MAIN reasons, Wayland told me, was the grant did not
spell-out the
WAY the profs were going to IMPLEMENT their idea.

My attached method for ACCOMPLISHING the goal was included with the
prof's
REQUESTED revision of their SBIR grant, Wayland told me.

I am getting enmeshed in techie stuff.  

I need and WANT to finish the digital FX PRONTO.

Let's all hope for settlement of the UNFORTUNATE mess before it gets
WORSE.

bill


Tuesday 8/4/98 7:06 AM

tech@cyberpowersystems.com
www.cyberpowersystems.com
512/238-9905

Yesterday I was trying to send a e-mail QUICK.  

I did not close the PowerPanel Window before invoking IE and the
external
ZOOM Flex modem software.

Dial-Up Networking window in Windows 95B reads

	!  The modem is being used by another Dial-Up Networking connection or
	    another program.  Disconnect the other connection or close the
program, and
	    then try again

					OK

I disabled the decode on the Superhigh Speed Serial Card by NOT
JUMPERing any addresses.

Guys, it appears to me AT THE MOMENT that the problem is that the
CyberPower code is interfering with the Dial-Up Networking software
within Windows 95.

It would be nice to be able to use BOTH the CyberPower auto shutdown
feature and Internet at the same time.

I realize that the software problem is likely in Windows 95 but I am NOT
OPTIMISTIC that Microsoft
will fix the problem.  Therefore.

Got any fixes?  

I will phone tech support later today.  I am not reading e-mail.

Thanks in advance.

bill


         	WEED KILLER computer interface proposal section 7/27/98 10:11 AM

Solution to controlling and collecting data from the WEED KILLER involves interfacing a personal computer
running a version of the Windows operating system to the WEED KILLER analog/digital hardware.

Windows is not a real-time operating system, therefore  microcontroller controller/collector hardware 
interface must be installed between a Wintel PC and the WEED KILLER hardware.

Essence of the Wintel data collector problem is that Windows 3.x or 9x responds to a hardware interrupt
usually between 70 to 150 microseconds.  In rare occasions the interrupt latency may extend to 1.5 
milliseconds or even longer.  A microcontroller responds to an interrupt in several microseconds.

Wintel hardware controller interface is even more difficult than collection for the reason that the Windows 
operating system only gives control to an application when Windows decides.  In the collection, mode at
least a hardware interrupt signals Windows that the application wants control.  However, the microcontroller
can send the Wintel an interrupt asking the applications code whether there is any message it needs to
send the microcontroller.

Microcontrollers have specialized timers, serial expansion ports and are, therefore, designed to be interfaced to 
analog and digital hardware. 

An 80C32 family microcontroller is proposed for the WEED KILLER application for reasons.

1  The 80C32 will do the job.

2  Multiple vendors of 80C32 guarantee future supply at a competitive price.  Current suppliers include
 Intel, AMD, Winbond, Dallas, Philips, Siemens, OKI,  ATMEL, ... 

3  High-speed parallel port bi-directional IEEE 1284 enhanced capability port 9 (ecp) communications 
hardware between an 80C32 and PC is in the final stage of development.

4  IEEE 1284 hardware drivers are supplied with Windows NT.  Custom assembler dll drivers are available
for 9x and 3.x.

5  A public-domain Forth 8051 operating system hosting a high-level language and interactive assembler with 
complete source code documentation is available on Internet. http://jya.com/f86/whpf86.htm

Hardcover book further documenting 5 is available from Academic Press.
http://www.apcatalog.com/cgi-bin/AP?ISBN=0125475705&LOCATION=US&FORM=FORM2

Only a Wintel machine is required for both hardware and software for the WEED KILLER project.  

Usually a Forth hardware/software development probject on requres a voltmeter, logic probe, and, 
infrequently, an oscilloscope.  Reason  is the INTERACTIVE control of the hardware and software
from a PC keyboard and diagnostic information easily printed to a PC monitor.

Justification for assertion made in the above paragraph comes from Internet.

NASA uses Forth extensively for its space programs. http://groucho.gsfc.nasa.gov/forth/

Ballard used polyForth http://av.yahoo.com/bin/query?p=polyforth&z=2&hc=0&hs=0
to locate wrecks of the Titanic, Bismarck, and Yorktown.
http://www.nationalgeographic.com/features/98/midway

Sun Microsystems workstation boot into Forth then invokes Solaris. http://playground.sun.com/pub/1275/

Adobe Postscript is a version of Forth. 
http://www.mactech.com/articles/mactech/language/forth-postscript.html

Video game software are written mostly in Forth.

The Wintel side of the WEED KILLER project will be most-likely written in a small
amount of assembler interface code and Visual Basic.

While Forth threaded code software technology is extremely valuable in some settings,
it is not in others.

Java is a variation of Forth.  http://www.mrl.nyu.edu/meyer/jvmref/

Future of Java on Wintel machines is unclear at this time.

For example,

  The hottest items among techies is a browser called Opera.   
  This is a $40 shareware program that in speed and compact   
  size buts both IE and Communicator to shame.  It has a slightly   
  different interface from either of the majors - an interface some find    
  refreshing while other find less than useful.  As it's shareware, you can   
  try and then buy if you like it.  One reason for its speed is that it ignores   
  Java - the Internet's Bandwidth Pig (IBP).   
 
  The Rumor Mill by Paul Cassel
  ComputerScene Magazine  July 1998   
   
Forth executes code High-level at about 10% the speed of a compiled high-level
language.

Speed of execution of small applications is not effected by Forth's slow execution.

Reason is that initial code is written in high-level Forth.  

Inner loops are then translated into Forth assembler.

Speed is maintained with the advantage that data structures are created an maintained in
high-level language while the interactive operating system is retained for trouble shooting
both hardware and software problem.

Hardware cost of building the 80C32 the WEED KILLER boards is estimated at $10k.

Hardware design is estimated at 1 month labor at $50/hr for a total of $8k.

Software development on the 80C32 side in Forth and Forth assembler, software on the
Wintel side in Visual Basic and assembler, documentation, and training is estimated to
be 4 months for a total of $32k
   
 /\/\/\
end



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Travis Savo 
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 10:17:33 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: FM radio hiss etc.
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980804101456.007bc750@max-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 02:56 AM 8/3/98 -0000, you wrote:
>Hi,
>Dumb as I am, I have a question about retrieving random stuff out off radio
>hiss:
>
>If it is/could be possible with FM hiss, is it possible too with a
>recording of, for example, a leeking faucet, tree-hiss forced by the wind,
>a sack of beads falling to te ground, even the sound of a shower, etc.? And

I don't see why not. If you got a high enough sampling rate (44khz should
do nicely), and set a peek threshold so anything under a certian volume was
a 0 and every peek over was a 1 I could think of a BUNCH of samples that
with a little playing with the threshold could produce some pretty random
resluts. Furthermore, by adjusting the threshhold you would get a toatly
different number. Using a random sampling with a random threshhold would
bring you closer to a truely random number. Of corse it's still not
possible to get a truely random number because you gotta get the threshold
value somehow... see below for why...

>what is, by the way, TRULY randomness - could that ever be reached? I have
>a bold assumption: it never can be.

That was my understanding, but I'm no expert on the subject. 

>Housenumbers aren't good for that - that *I* know.

Absolutely, because the seed is not truely random. For instance, most
random number generators use the current time from the internal clock to
generate a random number. However if you were to do the exact same thing at
the exact same time (down to the millisecond) it would reproduce the same
number.

If you try this let me know what you find!

>Chris Harwig
>Nieuwegein, The United Netherlands
> (no acces to the Internet; due to lack of money...)
>
>(I am not a native English speaker - as you probably see.)
>
>P.S. I can't help it: I miss Linda Reed fka Linda Reed...
>





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: CTIA Daily News 
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 14:15:46 -0700 (PDT)
To: CTIA Daily News 
Subject: CTIA Daily News from WOW-COM - August 4, 1998
Message-ID: <199808041802.NAA17167@mailstrom.revnet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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	boundary="---- =_NextPart_001_01BDBFAE.8684D970"



------ =_NextPart_001_01BDBFAE.8684D970
Content-Type: text/plain

==========================================
Welcome to today's edition of the CTIA Daily News
from WOW-COM.  Please click on the icon / attachment
for the most important news in wireless communications today.

A new multi-billion dollar industry is here!
Be at CTIA's WIRELESS I.T. '98
where personal computing and communications converge!

Don't Miss Your Chance -- October 12-14, 1998
Bally's Las Vegas, Las Vegas, NV

For more information, visit http://www.wirelessit.com
===========================================



------ =_NextPart_001_01BDBFAE.8684D970
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable










=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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Welcome to today's edition of the CTIA =
Daily News

from WOW-COM.  Please click on =
the icon / attachment

for the most important news in =
wireless communications today.



A new multi-billion dollar industry is =
here! 

Be at CTIA's WIRELESS I.T. =
'98

where personal computing and =
communications converge!



Don't Miss Your Chance -- October =
12-14, 1998

Bally's Las Vegas, Las Vegas, =
NV



For more information, visit =
http://www.wirelessit.com 

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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   _CTIA Daily News From WOW-COM_


 




3D"WOW-COM.COM"



3D"Today's








 








CTIA
Daily News from WOW-COM - August 4, 1998





















Motorola Forms =
New Internet
and Connectivity Services Division









Motorola ICSD will focus on =
developing
products and services that simplify consumer communications including =
speech-enabled,
web-based, content, in-vehicle and paging information services.  =
(N=
EWS.COM)
- (YAHOO=
)
- (BLOOMBERG)
- (ZDNET) 




















Telecommunications Companies
Getting Better  

at Keeping =
Customers
Loyal		









According to Arthur Andersen's 1998 =
American
Customer Satisfaction Index, telecommunications companies are getting =
better
at taking care of their customers.  The modest improvement (from =
65
to 66 on a 100-point scale) is said to result from investments in =
sophisticated
call-center technology, special customer services and targeted products
and prices. (YAHOO)=





















House Commerce =
Committee
Chairman Blasts FCC  

for Giving =
Spectrum to
Teligent 		









House Commerce Committee Chairman =
Thomas
W. Bliley (R-Va.) said the FCC appears to have "manufactured" a =
national
security need to justify its allocation of a valuable airwave spectrum
to a private company without a public proceeding and at no additional =
cost. 
The FCC's March 1997 decision shifts Teligent Inc.'s licenses for =
Digital
Electronic Messaging Services from the 18-gigahertz tier to the 24-GHz
tier - in effect, quadrupling the portion of the airwaves it could take
up. (ZDNET) =
;




















FCC to Hold =
Hearings
on Universal Service E-Rate









Figures released by the U.S. =
Department
of Commerce show a widening gap in access to basic telephone services,
as well as computer technology between rich and poor, and between races
regardless of income level.  The hearings will investigate ways to
close this "digital divide."  Currently, the FCC administers a =
controversial
program that is funded by fees charged to telecommunications providers.
(N=
EWS.COM)
- (NANDO.NET)
- (WALL
ST. JOURNAL) - (USA
TODAY) - (YAHOO)




















CellStar Says =
Securities
and Exchange Commission  

Probing Its =
"Compliance"		









In its statement, CellStar said it =
believes
the SEC inquiry is primarily related to previously disclosed events =
occurring
in 1995 and 1996. In February 1996, the company lowered fourth quarter
earnings estimates on what it said was a bookkeeping error related to =
"double
counting of inventory.'' A class-action suit on behalf of shareholders
was filed against the company in April 1996 accusing the company of =
misrepresentation
of financial results. (YAHOO=
)
- (CELLSTAR)




















LMDS Services to =
Businesses
to Exceed $6.5 Billion by 2007, According to Report by Pioneer =
Consulting 









More than half of the revenues will =
be
generated by the small business market (fewer than 10 employees), where
a tremendous unmet demand exists for low-cost high-speed access =
services,
according to the report. (YAHOO)=





















Samsung =
Electronics Licenses
Unwired Planet Microbrowser  

for CDMA =
Handsets 		









Samsung will use Unwired Planet's =
microbrowser
to deliver enhanced functionality and features in mainstream handsets =
for
consumers, in addition to providing the wireless information access =
capabilities
that network operators can deploy. (YAHOO)




















Rutland, Vermont =
Town
Officials Assess Need  

for Cellular =
Antenna
Site		









Planning commission officials =
explore
ways that cellular phone service can be offered while preserving the =
scenic
landscape.(WOW-COM)




















Dobson =
Communications
Acquires Its Third California  

Cellular =
Property		









Dobson buys California 7 Rural =
Service
Area (RSA) which includes Brawley, Calexico, and El Centro, Calif., =
from
Southern Cellular for $21 million.  Dobson will market its =
wireless
service under the trade name AirTouch Cellular to the 143,400 =
population
of the area. (WOW-COM)




















Popularity of =
Wireless
Phones Grows as Their Size Shrinks









Wireless phones are more convenient =
to
carry and use as manufacturers shrink them down to the size of a pack =
of
gum, load them up with new features and longer talk and standby times,
and offer better pricing. (PIONEER
PLANET)




















CWA Members =
Authorize
Strikes if Negotiations Unsuccessful with Bell Atlantic, BellSouth and
U S WEST









Contracts with Bell Atlantic and =
BellSouth
expire August 8.  Contract with U S WEST expires August 15.(TECH=
WEB)
- (YAHOO=
)
- (YAHOO)=





















Lucent Aims to =
Expand
in Asia 









Lucent will expand marketing its =
data
networking products and other communications network software in the =
Asia
Pacific region including Japan.  Its target is to become the No. 1
player in the worldwide communications network business by 2001. (N=
EWS.COM)
- (YAHOO=
)





















For additional news =
about
the wireless industry--including periodic news updates throughout the =
day--visit
http://www.wow-com.com.





















CTIA Daily News from =
WOW-COM
is transmitted weekdays, except for holidays. Visit us on the World =
Wide
Web at http://www.wow-com.com/prof=
essional.  


If you are not =
interested
in receiving the CTIA Daily News from WOW-COM, please send a message to
unjoin-CTIA_Dai=
ly_News@um2.unitymail.com.  


*** The term =
"unjoin-CTIA_Daily_News@um2.unitymail.com"
must be listed in the TO section of the email. =
*** 


Please Note: Some of =
the
links in today's news are time sensitive.  Those links may not be
available as news changes throughout the day.  Also, some news =
sources
may be subscription-based or require registration.





















 









From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Joseph 'Anonymous' Howe" 
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 09:55:31 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: none
Message-ID: <150cb05934c46ba679428a6613874e66@privacy.nb.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Subject: Re: "safe-haven"
Date: Tue, 04 Aug 1998 08:37:46 -0400

[...Initial message & Response...]

Mixmaster wrote:

> What characteristics make a jurisdiction (sovereign power) a good "safe-haven?"

Frederick Burroughs  responded:

Economically? In the view of former ARVN (south-vietnamese army) officer I used to
work with, government stability was a big requirement (anarchists take note).
Stability measured as the system of government, not holders of offices. Of course
it's easy to understand his position in light of his country's recent history.
Despite his foreign attributes, he was the source of some amusement and interesting
tidbits.

Government stability depends on many variables, but history can and is used by
those with holdings as a simple measure.

Then again, a good "safe haven" doesn't necessarily offer the biggest return (or
loss) on your investment.

[...end original...]

(I left the subject in the body of this message as these remailers sometimes clip the
subject field.)

Good comments. History is useful for measuring not only stability, but many facets.

Cases:

1.  Anguilla & Cate coming under pressure from Argentina. Would you say that Cate's
customer might have thought that a Carribean island might be a safe haven?

2.  Recent law suits over what people say about other people or companies. There doesn't
appear to be much security there for data between the u.s., canada and g.b.

Therefore, where can you find safety from intrusion by your host government, whether
they don't like what is on your server or another government or person doesn't like what
is on your computer?  Has anyone tackled this question in a studied way? (Yes, I know that
a number of good law firms would offer me an opinion for $350/hr.)

The only answer I can find, so far (and hence the question), is moving the data, which gets
expensive. It would seem that putting the data in a known safe haven in the first
place would be a better method of protecting it and then move it if assaulted.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Richard Storey 
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 11:45:56 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: The Unbreakable Data Lock
Message-ID: <35C757AB.935618C@earthlink.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


http://www.wired.com/news/news/technology/story/13920.html




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Andrew Loewenstern 
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 13:01:05 -0700 (PDT)
To: Richard Storey 
Subject: Re: The Unbreakable Data Lock
In-Reply-To: <35C757AB.935618C@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <9808042001.AA12292@ch1d524iwk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


> http://www.wired.com/news/news/technology/story/13920.html

It seems they are mighty short on clues at Wired these days...


andrew




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 13:23:32 -0700 (PDT)
To: Andrew Loewenstern 
Subject: Re: The Unbreakable Data Lock
In-Reply-To: <9808042001.AA12292@ch1d524iwk>
Message-ID: <199808042021.QAA06506@domains.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In <9808042001.AA12292@ch1d524iwk>, on 08/04/98 
   at 03:01 PM, Andrew Loewenstern  said:

>> http://www.wired.com/news/news/technology/story/13920.html

>It seems they are mighty short on clues at Wired these days...

You give them too much credit by assuming that they ever had any to start
with.


- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: OS/2: Windows with bullet-proof glass.

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 14:48:40 -0700 (PDT)
To: gbroiles@netbox.com
Subject: Great Fascist Satan's ploys
Message-ID: <35C7808A.39AB@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Tuesday 8/4/98 3:11 PM

J Orlin Grabbe
John Young

Morales and I met for lunch.

We formulated a plan of attack on the NEXT TARGET.

ABQ J Monday 8/13/98

  Fess Up, Clinton Friends, Foes Say

  Key Republican Says Lenience Is an Option

  By Robert L. Jackson
  Los Angeles Times

  WASHINGTON -

  [C]hairman Orrin Hatch of Utah said he believes Clinton could retract
  his denials of intimacy with Lewinsky and still survive in office,
provided
  there is no evidence of larger transgressions such as perjury or
obstruction
  of justice.
    "If he comes forth and tells it and does it in the right way and
there aren't
  a lot of other factors to cause the Congress to say this man is unfit
for the
  presidency and should be impeached, then I think the president would
have a 
  reasonable chance of getting through this," Hatch said of NBC's "Meet
the
  Press." ...

One of the Great Fascist Satan's ploys is to give a person bad advice
...
and hope they take it.  Bubba, we all guess, knows this TOO.

Morales and I figured out how to approach Hatch. 

The last attempt did not work.  http://www.jya.com/whp071598.htm

The statement

  No less can they forget how the west backed Saddam Hussein's 1980
invasion of Iran.

in Clinton Longs to "Make Iran His China" seen at
http://www.aci.net/kalliste/

appears a bit understated in view of
http://www.aci.net/kalliste/speccoll.htm
and http://caq.com/cryptogate.

I got a letter from US Attorney Mitchell today.  But I haven't opened
it.

Yesterday on the phone Mitchell I sensed that Mitchell had changed.  

Mitchell sounded sympathetic to what Morales' and I are doing.  

But she is a LAWYER so we are NOT counting on anything.

Let's all hope for settlement of the UNFORTUNATE matter before it gets
WORSE.

Later
bill


Monday 8/3/98 3:41 PM

FAX

Jan Elizabeth Mitchell
Assistant U.S. Attorney
U.S. Department of Justice
United States Attorney
District of New Mexico
Post Office Box 607
Albuquerque, NM 87103
505/346-7274
505/766-2868
FAX 505/346-7205

Dear Ms Mitchell:

Purpose of the fax is to 

1  review points covered in our 8/3/98 14:18 phone conversation
2  suggest settlement.

You phoned me today.

You told me that you planned to file a motion or response to the Tenth circuit's
request Morales and my response to the jurisdictional issue on the 21st of August.

I told you that this was premature on your part since we had moved for a second time
for an extension of time.

I told you also that this matter was now before congress.

You appeared to indicate to me that you were in the process of adding both Morales and
Minihan as named parties in this appeal.

You asked me if it would be agreeable to us if you filed a response to the Tenth circuit
21 days AFTER Morales and I filed our response to the Tenth circuit on the jurisdictional
issue.

I AGREED.

I spoke to Morales on the phone shortly after our phone conversation.

Arguing points of law before court clerks and judges who have outstanding criminal complaint
affidavits for crimes COMMITTED IN WRITING againtst them would be unproductive on Morales and my 
part.

Therefore, we will proceed to resolve the criminal conduct on the part of judges and court clerks
before we proceed further in this matter.

We will do this at the Congressional level.

Senate Judiciary Committe chairman Orrin Hatch, unfortunately, failed to properly process a valid
complaint on New Mexico district court chief judge John Conway in 1995.  
http://www.jya.com/whp071598.htm

Hatch's failure to properly respond in 1995, in large part, caused our current legal conflict with DIR NSA 
Minihan.

We foresee an unfortunate escalation of hostilities if this matter proceeds as it is.  

We do not wish this.

We seek settlement of the UNFORTUNATE matter at the earliest time.

We ask your and Congressional help to settle this UNFORTUNATE matter before it gets WORSE.

If I have made any essential material errors in reporting my impression of the contents of our conversation, 
then I would appreciate you giving your impression of possible errors.  

You can do this in the letter you said you would write to us.

Sincerely,


bill payne
13015 Calle de Sandias NE          	        
Albuquerque, NM 87111              	        

Distribution

Senate Judiciary Committee   e-mail
Arthur R Morales e-mail			





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: CTIA Daily News 
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 16:12:15 -0700 (PDT)
To: CTIA Daily News 
Subject: CTIA Daily News from WOW-COM - August 4, 1998 (Update)
Message-ID: <199808042114.QAA31533@mailstrom.revnet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




*******************************************************************
You may have received an earlier encoded version of the
CTIA Daily News from WOW-COM.  We apologize for
any inconvenience.

We experienced a technical malfunction that has been corrected.
*******************************************************************

==========================================

Welcome to today's edition of the CTIA Daily News
from WOW-COM.  Please click on the icon / attachment
for the most important news in wireless communications today.

A new multi-billion dollar industry is here! 
Be at CTIA's WIRELESS I.T. '98
where personal computing and communications converge!

Don't Miss Your Chance -- October 12-14, 1998
Bally's Las Vegas, Las Vegas, NV

For more information, visit http://www.wirelessit.com 
===========================================

 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Richard Storey 
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 15:45:13 -0700 (PDT)
To: "William H. Geiger III" 
Subject: Re: The Unbreakable Data Lock
In-Reply-To: <199808042021.QAA06506@domains.invweb.net>
Message-ID: <35C7753A.8B1015C7@earthlink.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Sorry, but I don't recall giving them "credit."

William H. Geiger III wrote:
> 
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> 
> In <9808042001.AA12292@ch1d524iwk>, on 08/04/98
>    at 03:01 PM, Andrew Loewenstern  said:
> 
> >> http://www.wired.com/news/news/technology/story/13920.html
> 
> >It seems they are mighty short on clues at Wired these days...
> 
> You give them too much credit by assuming that they ever had any to start
> with.
> 
> - --
> - ---------------------------------------------------------------
> William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
> Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0
> 
> Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
> PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
> OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
> - ---------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Tag-O-Matic: OS/2: Windows with bullet-proof glass.
> 
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: 2.6.3a-sha1
> Charset: cp850
> Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000
> 
> iQCVAwUBNcdu+o9Co1n+aLhhAQEVigQAmaHTHYWlPLQ2Z69kezaGSyoW2XU2vAIH
> IeGOSXWuFbNfXrUTUVTRmNzzmgVCLnTk9WLHG0bN90CQB7L/EtbPzhCKV9qBPi1m
> JwIa0/c1DiAU0xrCUZvQLIx51K74mFqrfov6ArIvPRox5HHVdpi8WrBctp+gjzyt
> FkRdrhL55Rk=
> =/lth
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ELarson100@aol.com
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 15:49:58 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: stickers
Message-ID: <6d759c5b.35c78fe9@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Can you do a 5 color process?  4x4".  Price on 500,1000,1500




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 18:48:48 -0700 (PDT)
To: j orlin grabbe 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Tuesday 8/4/98 6:17 PM

J Orlin Grabbe

When I sent 

            The contemplation of things as they are,  
                without error or confusion,  
            without substitution or imposture,  
   is in itself a nobler thing than a whole harvest of invention.  
  
   Francis Bacon   

I had not seen the news.

I watched Dan Rather, ABC, and PBS.

I THINK I realized the importance of what you wrote at
http://www.aci.net/kalliste/apocalyp.htm
when I wrote at Tuesday 8/4/98 10:58 AM

  Larry Gilbert is our broker at Dain Rausher, formerly Rausher, Pierce
and Resfnes.
  
  I phoned Gilbert this morning to alert him to
http://www.aci.net/kalliste/apocalyp.htm

The about 300 point drop in the DJ.

I THINK we are doing LOTS OF THINKING.

We are THINKING ABOUT the zeitgeist.  

We do not cause what MAY happen.  We MAY only predict it.  

By THINKING and STUDYING HISTORY.

THINKING SLOWLY is the most important part.

                   Sitting Bull, whose Indian name 
                   was Tatanka Iyotake, was born in 
                   the Grand River region of 
                   present-day South Dakota in 
                   approximately 1831. His nickname 
                   was Hunkesi, meaning "Slow" 
                   because he never hurried and did 
                   everything with care.  
 
http://www.incwell.com/Biographies/SittingBull.html 

Morales and I are BOTH SLOW THINKERS.

Morales, his wife Becky said at about 17:30, also got a letter from US
attorney Mitchell.

Retired Washington State University econ chairman Robert F Wallace

       "Stupidity is difficult to underestimate." 

recommended I read The Great Crash by John Kenneth Galbraith.

I did a bit of searching on the web and found

  "Those who cannot remember the past are doomed to repeat it."
                                        -- George Santyana, 1905

http://rickohio.com/mag/articles/monica.htm

You and John Young http://www.jya.com/index.htm are riding the
zeitgeist, I THINK!

Morales and Payne may be on the zeitgeist too.
http://www.jya.com/whp071598.htm

Let's all hope for settlement of this unforunate matter. Before it gets
WORSE.

Best
bill






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 18:48:53 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Cracking DES 5, 6, 7
Message-ID: <199808050148.VAA25162@camel14.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Chapters 5, 6 and 7, the US-export-prohibited code, and a great job 
of scanning and proofreading:


ftp://ftp.nic.surfnet.nl/surfnet/net-security/encryption/cracking_DES/







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: aa1310@hotmail.com
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 22:47:20 -0700 (PDT)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: w63
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain








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CORPORATE ACCOUNTS AVAILABLE WITH APPROVED CREDIT
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: aa1310@hotmail.com
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 03:06:16 -0700 (PDT)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: w68
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain








BENCHMARK PRINT SUPPLY
1091 REDSTONE LANE
ATLANTA GA 30338

CALL---->       770-399-0953   FOR TONER SUPPLIES ORDERS/PRICING ONLY  

CALL---->       770-399-5505   CUSTOMER SERVICE/SUPPORT ISSUES 
                 
CALL---->       770-399-5614    E-MAIL REMOVAL COMPLAINTS LINE

                                    
OUR  LASER PRINTER/FAX/COPIER TONER CARTRIDGE PRICES
NOW AS LOW AS $39 & UP. SPECIALS WEEKLY ON ALL LASER PRINTER
SUPPLIES. WE CARRY MOST ALL LASER PRINTER CARTRIDGES, FAX SUPPLIES
AND COPIER TONERS AT WAREHOUSE PRICES INCLUDING:

HEWLETT PACKARD SERIES 2/3/4/2P/4P/5P/4L/5L/3SI/4SI/5SI
IBM/LEXMARK OPTRA SERIES 4019/4029/4039/4049/4059
EPSON SERIES 2/1100/1500/6000/7000/8000
NEC SERIES 90/95
CANON COPIER PC SERIES INCLUDING 3/6RE/7/11/320/720/10/20/25 ETC...
HP FAX SERIES 700/720/5000/7000/FX1/FX2/FX3/FX4/FX5
CANON FAX ALL MODELS  
PRICES CHANGE WEEKLY PLEASE CALL TO GET THE MOST
RECENT PRICING/AVAILABILTY AND SPECIALS OF THE WEEK!!!!

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE  MAKE NOTE OF THE FOLLOWING BEFORE YOU CALL:

-----> WE DO NOT HAVE CATALOGS OR PRICE LISTS BECAUSE OUR PRICES CHANGE WEEKLY!!
-----> WE DO NOT FAX QUOTES OR PRICES BECAUSE OUR ORDER LINE IS NOT SET UP  TO DO THAT
-----> WE DO NOT SELL  TO  RESELLERS OR BUY FROM DISTRIBUTERS
-----> WE DO NOT CARRY : BROTHER -MINOLTA-KYOSERA- PANASONIC - XEROX - FUJITSU - OKIDATA - SHARP!!
-----> WE DO NOT CARRY ANY COLOR PRINTER SUPPLIES!!!!!    
-----> WE DO NOT CARRY DESKJET/INKJET OR BUBBLEJET SUPPLIES!!!!                    

NEW,NEW,NEW $10 MAIL IN REBATE ON SELECTED  CARTRIDGES
SIMPLY ORDER YOUR NEW CARTRIDGE, WHEN IT ARRIVES MAIL BACK                        
YOUR REBATE CERTIFICATE WITH ANY USED CARTRIDGE FOR INSTANT CREDIT

WE ACCEPT ALL MAJOR CREDIT CARDS OR COD ORDERS
CORPORATE ACCOUNTS AVAILABLE WITH APPROVED CREDIT
ALL PACKAGES SHIPPED UPS GROUND UNLESS SPECIFIED OTHERWISE


 










From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: qui78@lsi.usp.br (guyrmo)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 03:33:54 -0700 (PDT)
To: qui78@lsi.usp.br
Subject: Low AirFares--Cheaper than Airlines--Free AirFare Alert Service
Message-ID: <199808051502UAA10896@deremuv.educ.ab.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



TravelNews keeps on-line travellers updated on Fare Wars, cruise and 
vacation specials, and other travel-related news.  To enroll in this 
FREE Email service, please see end of message.

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 22:20:20 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: of Re: of the dickwads thing...
Message-ID: <199808050520.HAA22850@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I hope it can't be tracked, even by the operators.  That is the point
of making it anonymous. :)

I take no offense to a post suck as this. The sender obviously knows
almost nothing of the remailers,  letters coming out in a different
order preserve untracability.  The point for the names such as
Anonymous and Nobody are so you know it's  an anon remailer, there is
no reason to hide it and it helps to identify them.  If you want to
hide it you can.

---kryz  wrote:
>
> I'm a pretty ignorant "cypherpunk".  I believe that this crap can be
> uncovered.
> Or is it a test or some thing like that.
> Why not crack the "Anonymous" person and hang 'm high. I can't do
that,
> helas!
> Maybe you can?
> 

> : they
> : can't even get their messages to come out in the same order that
they
> : came in by...
> :   Dumb, eh? Some of the test messages I sent to myself came back
in a
> : different order from that what I sent them in. I guess these guys
don't
> : know much about computers, eh?
> :   And those names, 'Anonymous' and 'Nobody', aren't fooling AnyBody,
> : because the minute you see them, you *know* that the message is
> : from a remailer.  Dumb, eh?

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED/EUREKA! 
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 06:25:26 -0700 (PDT)
To: All Eureka/Stuffed Subscribers: ;
Subject: Sex change op to be shown live on web/Dog gets bionic balls
Message-ID: <19980805080001.2521.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Welcome to  today's  issue of Stuffed. To read it you should
click on the URL below.  If it is not made clickable by your
email program  you will need to  use your mouse to highlight
the line,  copy it and then paste it into your browser (then
press Return).

http://stuffed.net/98/8/5/

If you  have an email program that can display web pages you
will find today's front cover should have already been disp-
layed and can be clicked on to take you straight to Stuffed.

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 06:40:28 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Jim Bell Latest
Message-ID: <199808051340.JAA25381@camel14.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Excerpt from USA v. Jim Bell court docket:

Docket as of August 5, 1998 3:10 am               Pages 7-8

Proceedings include all events.                                   TERMED
3:97cr5270-ALLUSA v. Bell                                         APPEAL

6/22/98  --      DEFENDANT James Dalton Bell  arrested (car)
                 [Entry date 06/24/98]

6/23/98  48      MINUTES of Initial on Prob Revocation:DEW, Dep Clerk:Peter
                 Voelker, AUSA:Robb London, Def Counsel:Peter Voelker, Tape
                 #A473, USPO:Steven McNichols  D' arrested 6/22/98; D' adv
                 of rights; crt appts cnsl; D' adv of allegations in
                 violation petition; Gov't moves for detention this hrg,
                 proceeds, Gov't proffer, D' proffer; D' ORDERED DETAINED;
                 probation revocation hrg set for 11:00 a.m. on  7/10/98
                 before Judge Burgess  D' remanded. (car)
                 [Entry date 06/25/98]

6/23/98  49      ORDER  by Magistrate Judge David E. Wilson  appointing  as
                 the Federal Public Defender for defendant James Dalton Bell
                 (cc:  counsel) (car) [Entry date 06/25/98]

                                                                         BWM
6/30/98  50      MINUTE ORDER by Judge Franklin D. Burgess  that the
                 Probation Revocation hrg is rescheduled to 1:30 p.m. on
                 7/10/98 for James Dalton Bell (cc: counsel, Judge) (car)
                 [Entry date 06/30/98]

7/8/98   --      PROPOSED Supplemental Violations (car) [Entry date 07/08/98]


7/10/98  51      PROBATION PETITION/ORDER by Judge Franklin D. Burgess as to
                 James Dalton Bell re: Supplemental Violations  (cc:
                 counsel, Judge, USPO) (car) [Entry date 07/10/98]

7/15/98  52      MINUTE ORDER  by Judge Franklin D. Burgess ;  probation
                 revocation hrg continued to 9:00 7/31/98 for James Dalton
                 Bell (cc:  counsel, Judge) (km) [Entry date 07/15/98]

7/16/98  53      AMENDED MINUTE ORDER  by Judge Franklin D. Burgess ;
                 probation revocation hrg scheduled for 9:00 7/31/98 for
                 James Dalton Bell (cc:  counsel, Judge) (km)
                 [Entry date 07/16/98]

7/22/98  54      SUBSTITUTION OF COUNSEL on behalf of USA  Robert Louis
                 Jacob London terminating attorney Annmarie Levins for USA
                 (car) [Entry date 07/22/98]

7/31/98  55      MINUTES of Supervised Release Violations:FDB, Dep Clerk:B
                 Kay McDermott, AUSA:Rob London, Def Counsel:Peter Avenia,
                 CR:J Ryen  probation revocation hrg held Cnsl pres. Mr.
                 Bell pres in custody.  Court adv D' of charges.  D' enters
                 NOT GUILTY to violations 1,4,5,6, & 7 (violations 2 & 3 MOOT
                 as penalties are paid).  D' cnsl states for the record that
                 D' feels the Gov't is engaging in spying on him as a private
                 citizen and and requests that the Court conduct an
                 investigation into this activity; D' feels the conditions of
                 supervised release are unconstitutional. Mr. London advises
                 the court that no survelillance has been conducted on Mr.
                 Bell.  Court rules this hrg will proceed on the violations
                 charges only, D' concerns should be addressed in other
                 action.  Court inquires of cnsl if psychological evaluation
                 is required, D' cnsl adv the cour that D' does not feel this
                 hrg should proc because of his prior stated concerns of the
                 Gov't spying and conspiracy against him. D' request add'l
                 time to prep.  RECESS. D' cnsl adv the Court that D' not
                 prep to proc today, D' requests month continuance, D' cnsl
                 disagrees w/client's strategy. D' cnsl adv the Court mental
                 health eval may be approp. Gov't objs. Court adv parties
                 that mental health eval will be ordered. D' adv the Court he

                 wants investigation of Gov't actions. Court adv D' mental
                 health eval ordered.  Court orders Gov't to prep approp
                 order, iss of Mr. Avenia cont as cnsl will be addr. D'
                 remanded pending eval. (car) [Entry date 08/03/98]
                 [Edit date 08/03/98]

8/3/98   --      LODGED ORDER directing commitment of D' to submit to a
                 competency exam (car) [Entry date 08/04/98]

End Docket as of August 5, 1998 3:10 am






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Joan Kowalchuk 
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 08:47:20 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: more free stuff
Message-ID: <35C87F58.2F334B81@sk.sympatico.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 01:03:54 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Question on secure programs
Message-ID: <199808050804.KAA04696@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I'm sitting here browsing through my copy of applied cryptography and
I start to think.  How long will my 2047 bit PGP key be secure?  When
I look for secure I don't mean my family or the occasional hacker.  I
mean like a martial law state.  DES 56bit can be cracked in days or
hours,  public key cryptography is substancially easier to break than
symetric cryptography such as DES.  I want to get the best encrytion I
can so that one day when my computer is dug out of the ground and put
in an exibit at a college they still can't break my key.  I understand
my key is secure now, but what about in ten years when I'm famous and
my history is worth a mil? :)

Is mit still developing Mit PGP? or is 2.6.2 the last free version of
PGP that we will ever see?  




_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 01:19:15 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: SecDrv and Win95
Message-ID: <199808050819.KAA06317@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I'm looking for a good HD encryptor.  The best one seems to be secdrv,
 Is this compatoble with win95? I'm asking because I know secdrv uses
tsr programs and drivers, but I am not familiar enough with win 95 to
be sure they will work together.  In win programming you don't use
interrupts and I'm sure that the drivers try to capture interupts. it
could still work if win95 calls int's to do it's work though.  Any info?




_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 09:59:43 -0700 (PDT)
To: senatorlott@lott.senate.gov
Subject: MOTION FOR EXTENSION OF TIME TO FILE MEMORANDUM BRIEFS ADDRESSING JURISDICTIONAL ISSUES.
Message-ID: <35C88E56.2C2E@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Wednesday 8/5/98 10:06 AM

John Young     http://www.jya.com/index.htm
Charles Smith  http://www.us.net/softwar/

I mailed envelopes to you both containing Herbert Richardson's FOIA info
about NSA attempting to sabotage Sandia/NSA projects.

This is documented at http://jya.com/da/whpda.htm

In John Young's envelope I included US Attorney Mitchell's

	MOTION FOR EXTENSION OF TIME TO FILE MEMORANDUM BRIEFS
	ADDRESSING JURISDICTIONAL ISSUES.

Certificate of service August 3, 1998.

Morales and I by FRAP 27 have 7 days 

  Any party may file a response in opposition to a motion other than
one   
  for procedural order [for which see subdivision (b)] within 7 days   
  after service of the motion,

http://www.ca5.uscourts.gov/docs/frap-iop.htm#27

plus 3 because of service by mail 

http://www.ca5.uscourts.gov/docs/frap-iop.htm#26c 

to respond to Mitchell's latest motion.

Morales and I NEVER miss an opportunity to RESPOND.

Mitchell CONTINUES to list

 NATIONAL SECURITY AGENCY,

	Defendant - Appellee

Correct heading is

UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS    
       FOR THE TENTH CIRCUIT    
    
William H. Payne		            )    
Arthur R. Morales                           )    
                                            )    
Appellants Plaintiffs,                      )    
                                            )   98-2156 
v                                           )	98-1257    
					    )	    
Lieutenant General Kenneth A. Minihan, USAF )    
Director, National Security Agency	    )    
National Security Agency		    )    
                                            )    
Appellees Defendants                        )

We will get this corrected.

The government DOES NOT LIKE individuals named.  

Reason is that government employees like to hide behind an agency name
so
as to avoid

	1  responsibility
	2  accountability
	3  liability

But this is not going to happen in this matter.  
http://caq.com/cryptogate
http://www.aci.net/kalliste/speccoll.htm

Morales and I must soon implement our strategy of approaching the 

Senate Judiciary Committee  
  http://www.senate.gov/committee/judiciary.html   
in an EFFECTIVE WAY.

Approaching Hatch directly has proved ineffective in the past.
http://www.jya.com/whp071598.htm

Internet publication is a good way to be EFFECTIVE. 
http://www.jya.com/mi5-flap.htm

  The former agent, who was threatening to publish details of the
  supposed Qadaffi plot on the Internet, was arrested in a hotel room in
Paris.

and

  Now, with the advent of the Internet, it is probably only a matter of
time before Mr. Shayler's       allegations are disseminated.

  "He's a whistleblower," said Mr. Shayler's lawyer, John Wadham, the
director of Liberty, a civil      liberties group. 

Let's hope these matter are settled soon.  Then Morales and I can move
for dismissal of our
lawsuits.

We can all be off on OTHER constructive projects.  

Shaping-up the US legal system is a CONSTRUCTIVE PROJECT.  But it SHOULD
BE the senate judiciary
committee's responsibility.  They need to do their job.  Morales and I
will get things started.

I NEED to revise my book for the 80C32 with ieee 1284 ecp parallel
bi-directional communications.

http://www.apcatalog.com/cgi-bin/AP?ISBN=0125475705&LOCATION=US&FORM=FORM2

Later
bill


Monday 8/3/98 3:41 PM

FAX

Jan Elizabeth Mitchell
Assistant U.S. Attorney
U.S. Department of Justice
United States Attorney
District of New Mexico
Post Office Box 607
Albuquerque, NM 87103
505/346-7274
505/766-2868
FAX 505/346-7205

Dear Ms Mitchell:

Purpose of the fax is to 

1  review points covered in our 8/3/98 14:18 phone conversation
2  suggest settlement.

You phoned me today.

You told me that you planned to file a motion or response to the Tenth circuit's
request Morales and my response to the jurisdictional issue on the 21st of August.

I told you that this was premature on your part since we had moved for a second time
for an extension of time.

I told you also that this matter was now before congress.

You appeared to indicate to me that you were in the process of adding both Morales and
Minihan as named parties in this appeal.

You asked me if it would be agreeable to us if you filed a response to the Tenth circuit
21 days AFTER Morales and I filed our response to the Tenth circuit on the jurisdictional
issue.

I AGREED.

I spoke to Morales on the phone shortly after our phone conversation.

Arguing points of law before court clerks and judges who have outstanding criminal complaint
affidavits for crimes COMMITTED IN WRITING againtst them would be unproductive on Morales and my 
part.

Therefore, we will proceed to resolve the criminal conduct on the part of judges and court clerks
before we proceed further in this matter.

We will do this at the Congressional level.

Senate Judiciary Committe chairman Orrin Hatch, unfortunately, failed to properly process a valid
complaint on New Mexico district court chief judge John Conway in 1995.  
http://www.jya.com/whp071598.htm

Hatch's failure to properly respond in 1995, in large part, caused our current legal conflict with DIR NSA 
Minihan.

We foresee an unfortunate escalation of hostilities if this matter proceeds as it is.  

We do not wish this.

We seek settlement of the UNFORTUNATE matter at the earliest time.

We ask your and Congressional help to settle this UNFORTUNATE matter before it gets WORSE.

If I have made any essential material errors in reporting my impression of the contents of our conversation, 
then I would appreciate you giving your impression of possible errors.  

You can do this in the letter you said you would write to us.

Sincerely,


bill payne
13015 Calle de Sandias NE          	        
Albuquerque, NM 87111              	        

Distribution

Senate Judiciary Committee   e-mail
Arthur R Morales e-mail			





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Ian F. Silver" 
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 09:44:30 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: SecDrv and Win95
In-Reply-To: <199808050819.KAA06317@replay.com>
Message-ID: <98Aug5.115014cdt.36865-1@gateway.mgmtscience.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

At 03:19 AM 8/5/98 -0500, you wrote:
>I'm looking for a good HD encryptor.  The best one seems to be
secdrv,
> Is this compatoble with win95? I'm asking because I know secdrv uses
>tsr programs and drivers, but I am not familiar enough with win 95 to
>be sure they will work together.  In win programming you don't use
>interrupts and I'm sure that the drivers try to capture interupts. it
>could still work if win95 calls int's to do it's work though.  Any
info?

I found an interesting "mount a container as a drive letter"
encryption program in finland called "BestCrypt NP", when I was first
looking for a program like you describe.  It's available for 3
environments currently, those being:  Dos, Windows 95, and Windows NT.

It has three algorithms that you can pick from for encryption:

GOST28147-89 (32 rounds, 256 bits primary key, 512 bits secondary key)
Blowfish (in Cipher Block Chaining Mode with 256-bit key length and 16
rounds)
DES

I use Blowfish and GOST (depending on the size of the container I'm
working with), and avoided DES, even before Deep Crack was invented. 
:-)

You can check out the product for yourself at:
http://jetico.sci.fi

I've been using the product for several months, and am rather pleased
with it.  I now keep my email, inbound attachments, netscape user
directory (including cache), scanned financial records, and PGP
private/public keyrings in this product's encrypted container files.

I've had the opportunity to test the company's support via email, and
I've been pleased with that as well.  The gentleman who appears to be
running the show is "Oleg Essine".

I'm looking at CFS (Cryptographic File System) for when I make the
jump away from Microsoft towards S.u.S.E. Linux 5.2.


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Business Security 5.5.2

iQA/AwUBNciNPItr/w7g57VBEQJjYQCglobgLYG+XEdNBDk4DHd0U++H1YoAoI3I
qkOSPeBNpz++iWRa1jchAjVH
=e+Nm
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

---
Ian F. Silver  // Amateur Callsigns:  KD0DOA & VA3DOA
Management Science Associates  // Voice: 816-795-1947 x 249 // Fax:
816-373-6384
4801 CLIFFE AVENUE SUITE #300 INDEPENDENCE MO 64055
PGP DSS/DH Key Fingerprint: 951F 8B0E 8A84 AFAA B846  1AAF 8B6B FF0E E0E7 B541
PGP RSA    Key Fingerprint: 3B32 4848 1C1B 8F60  5200 B1B3 6656 2266




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Belinda Cook 
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 02:34:37 -0700 (PDT)
To: "402000155@edi.de>
Subject: RE: The Catch of the Week
Message-ID: <01BDC089.543EDB60@sladl3p45.ozemail.com.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




----------
From: 	Sea-Ex[SMTP:seaex@big.net.au]
Sent: 	Wednesday, 5 August 1998 11:25
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glosea@bigpond.com; mcgrath@compack.com.au; mudcrabs@zed.org; trades@ibbco.aust.com; interon@ozemail.com.au; jbcfoods@internetnorth.com.au; johnjbsmarketing@bigpond.com; heriot@malvern.starway.net.au; kailis@enternet.com.au; lisa@kfm.dializ.oz.au; brolos@midwest.com.au; kenbry@onthenet.com.au; kvy@iig.com.au; kaquam@eisa.net.au; kvytas@eisa.net.au; marron@wn.com.au; derekw@powerup.com.au; con@dove.net.au; lonimar@ozemail.com.au; jai@one.net.au; mackayreef@m130.aone.net.au; exec@magnum.com.au; mncrdb@midcoast.com.au; milligan@iinet.net.au; jwilliams@mitco.com.au; mulataga@nettrek.com.au; munroint@bigpond.com.au; fishing@mures.com.au; warren@nswabalone.com.au; newberys@compuserve.com; ruelloinc@wr.com.au; nortas@netspace.net.au; oakfair@icenet.com.au; oceanic@oceanic.com.au; centavo@klever.net.au; pandm@ozemail.com.au; pacbasin@locainet.com.au; hanbo@vision.net.au; rdsimp@ozemail.com.au; roger@eis.net.au; pbros@poulosbros.com.au; cqcray@tpgi.com.au; andyjc@rainbowvalley.com.au; raptxpbr@ozemail.com.au; 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a912t19@idt.net; aarax@emirates.net.ae; access@seanet.com; accordim@ix.netcom.com; acee@raleigh.ibm.com; acmefish@aol.com; active83@netvision.net.il; admin@golden-trade.com; admin@infomare.it; admin@trade-express.com; administrator@ms.anfeng.com.tw; aef375006@pbs6.milton.port.ac.uk; aespeleta@compunet.net.co; afta@halcyon.com; agv@riverside.com; aj.lagemaat@hasdb.agro.nl; akafi@hotmail.com; akiko@nz.com; akoromilas@aol.com; akreds@aol.com; alabbas@super.net.pk; alainlange@hotmail.com; alan@astrainfo.com; alasund@ok.is; alberti@alberti-import-export.com; alconed@nexo.es; aldenaro@juno.com; aldot@usa.net; alfordj@digitalexp.com; alford-j@popmail.firn.edu; algaetech@maine.com; al-khulaqsaj@cardiff.ac.uk; allaboutexport@allaboutexport.com; alnida@giasmd01.vsnl.net.in; alpbay@aol.com; alphins@nceye.net; alsaeurope@glo.be; alzubedi@hotmail.com; amac@newave.net.au; amazonfish@aol.com; amazonpp@gate.net; ambrosca@ix.netcom.com; amesfer@khaleej.net.bh; amfood@netside.net; ampac@usa.net; anali@slt.lk; anandhi@giasmd01.vsnl.net.in; anders.wennerblom@bfc.umea.se; andre@galaxy-7.net; andreae@seaharvest.co.za; andujar@coqui.net; annette@bom3.vsnl.net.in; anova@anovafood.net; anton.triasta.citarate@ibm.net; antons@ww.co.nz; aolim@pacific.net.sg; aparrna@giasmd01.vsnl.net.in; apbimbo@crosslink.net; apexport@giascl01.vsnl.net.in; aquajet@ix.netcom.com; aquaman14@hotmail.com; aquamarsd@msn.com; arcpac@usa.net; areacode@sirius.com; arf@northcoast.com; arodri@hermes.uninet.net.mx; arqueo@pananet.com; art@the-wire.com; ashraf-hafez@usa.net; assistan@argenet.com.ar; aswin@md2.vsnl.net.in; athar@pak.net; atlahua@exxor.red2000.com.mx; atlahua@mail.red2000.com.mx; atlantic@atlantic.no; atldir@cgocable.net; ato@internet-fr.net; auction@ime.net; ausender@hotmail.com; avra@giasmd01.vsnl.net.in; bamboobridge@valise.com; bas@cerf.net; bastasic@modesty.bl.ac.yu; baymail@datasync.com; bbs@visi.com; bdaplace@iamerica.net; bearcat1@teleport.com; bell@giasmd01.vsnl.net.in; bensouda@moroccouscouncil.org; bgaines@lausd.k12.ca.us; bgill@citrus.infi.net; BH1099@aol.com; bikky@giasdl01.vsnl.net.in; bill@envirotainer.com; bionov@qbc.clic.net; bizhelper@angelfire.com; bizopp@forfree.at; b-jack@gmunro.ca; bjorn@ok.is; bleblanc@stavis.com; bliintl@cyberway.com.sg; blktigr@msn.com; blount@ix.netcom.com; bmaver4843@aol.com; boards@vldbros.com; bob@mcs.nl; boeki@netlaputa.ne.jp; bonecom@indosat.net.id; bonmark@zoo.co.uk; borzysz@friko2.onet.pl; borzysz@kki.net.pl; borzysz@polbox.com; bosbaybsn@msn.com; botsford@nbnet.nb.ca; bowen@zoomnet.net; bpeters@c4.net; brdbinca@aol.com; bregliano@big.it; brendanc@jetcity.com; brian@intersea-seafood.com; brian@neptunetrading.com; bright@bangla.net; brunop@idirect.com; bsd@mnet.fr; bstavis@stavis.com; bstrack@micron.net; btruedale@techpak.com; btruesdale@techpak.com; burren.fish@iol.ie; bziemann@aol.com; callissfd@hotmail.com; caltec@netvision.net.il; camanchaca@chilnet.cl; candying@bellsouth.net; cantanzaro.rich@heb.com; capeq@tiac.net; capitaine.cook@wanadoo.fr; capt.kev@usa.net; captcarl@haccp-seafood.com; 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exfresh@aol.com; eximport@idt.net; expac@aol.com; expack@aol.com; export@intl-tradement.com; ex-sfd@bellwouth.net; exshrimp@aol.com; extrapro@procosur.com; extrem@fx.ro; fairlanefd@juno.com; famold@mindspring.com; fao@eastfish.org; fasinfo@fas.usda.gov; fatcrab@steamedcrabs.com; fathoms@funbarbados.com; fazfrmgt2@aol.com; fbcab@mbox.vol.it; fdm@catsnet.com; filip@envirotainer.com; fininc@nbnet.nb.ca; firefuzz@datasync.com; fish.amal@clear.net.nz; fish@fishroute.com; fish@mgh.hb.eunet.de; fish@stavis.com; fish@web-net.com; fishbid@xyz.net; fishdev@aol.com; fisheries@ecology.bio.dfo.ca; fishhouse@pennekamp.com; fishinc@nbnet.nb.ca; fishmaninc@yahoo.com; fishmore@windsor.igs.net; fiskmark@treknet.is; fjdonoso@reuna.cl; fjord@gate.net; flhansen@pro-bolivia.com; fmak@tm.net.my; foodexp@sminter.com.ar; foodpro@voyager.co.nz; fratello@mendazer.com; Freeko@smipc.or.kr; freshfish@worldnet.att.net; friomar@adinet.com.uy; frozen@wanchese.com; fulfish@mail.cosapidata.com.pe; furni@fzu.edu.cn; fwu@deltatrak.com; gadco@iec.egnet.net; gadus@istar.ca; gaintown@ms14.hinet.net; gambie@pop3.concentric.net; gao@public.fz.fj.cn; garments@sietic.qd.sd.cn; garza@lagnetcom.mx; gated-people@merit.edu; gatorstick@aol.com; gdmec@dgup3.gd.cei.gov.cn; genehickman@msn.com; geoperfect@tip.nl; geotech@giasmd01.vsnl.net.in; germst@earthlink.net; ghodges@temptale.com; gilship@gmunro.ca; ginacarvalho@trinidad.net; gipse@node.com.br; gjh@pacific.net.sg; gjlimp@aol.com; gjsmall@worldnet.att.net; gla@glassociates.com; glacier@halcyon.com; glk@idt.net; global.wildlife@gtnet.gov.uk; global1940@aol.com; glynns@freewwweb.com; glynns@smart1.net; gnu@toad.com; gnyba@friko2.onet.pl; gnyba@kki.net.pl; gnyba@polbox.com; goldenstar@chinatrade.net; goodrichho@msn.com; gothamsfd@aol.com; gourmetclb@aol.com; gprobst142@aol.com; grans@gmunro.ca; graphic@lenet.fr; graycen@mindspring.com; g-routes@fox.nstn.ns.ca; gssfd@bellsouth.net; gtc@manufacture.com.tw; gulfexpress@gulfexpress.com; gunjur@aol.com; gwadman@tartannet.ns.ca; gylin@usa.net; gyorke@infoshare.ca; gzgarden@public.guangzhou.gd.cn; gzgmg@public1.guangzhou.gd.cn; hartsell.james.R000@sysco.com; halfbeak@hotmail.com; hallman@law.vill.edu; hansung@t-online.de; harish@giasmd01.vsnl.net.in; hcsp@dlews1.dl.cei.gov.cn; heinrich@indosat.net.id; helgimar@valeik.is; help@leisterpro.com; hendersd@mailgate.net.treas.gov; hernandezb@aol.com; hillsburn@ns.sympatico.ca; hillsburn@ns.sypatico.ca; himsa@himsa.com; hiteccom@giasmd01.vsnl.net.in; hmekran@paknet3.ptc.pk; hmunro@ibm.net; hnfishco@ix.netcom.com; hoxenberg@aol.com; hskaar@skaarint.com; huff@solander.co.nz; hugwill@total.net; hunterexporters@hunterlink.net.au; hunterss@sprynet.com; hwamerica@aol.com; hziq55@public.hzptt.sd.cn; ian@csiseafood.co.nz; ideveau@klis.com; idk@idkconsulting.com; imartin713@aol.com; impexc2000@aol.com; impship@gmunro.ca; incofoods@chilnet.cl; ine@tbd.gov.sg; info@abisnet.com; info@amalmark.co.nz; info@axcessdata.com; info@banxia.com; info@bavariacorp.com; info@blundellseafoods.com; info@ca-seafood.org; info@catalogmall.com; info@citgroup.com.cs; info@clearfreight.com; info@commodityspecialists.com; info@commodityspecialistscompsny.com; info@corp.maf.govt.nz; info@cylinder-slide.com; info@export.nl; info@frozenfish.com; info@fundch.cl; info@handycrab.com; info@harbinger.com; info@henningsen.com; info@hichina.com; info@ilmondo.com; info@infofish.com; info@insuracepros.com; info@liveseafood.com; info@mafi.com; info@meadowswye.com; info@pbb.com; info@pioneer97.co.uk; info@pro-bolivia.com; info@royal-import-export.com; info@sanford.co.nz; info@scanvec.com; info@schema.de; info@sportika.com; info@takari.com; info@tcal.com; info@tradepost-chat.com; info@visshop.com; info@world-trading.com; infoavi@mx.cei.gov.cn; infocom@del2.vsnl.net.in; information@deepseaproductsinc.com; information@intertrade.net; interagr@shadow.net; interdat@silverlink.net; interfoo.dltda001@chilnet.cl; interpex@usa.net; interprenr@aol.com; intlsupport@scanvec.com; isfoss@isholf.is; itc@ispinfo.com; itl@md2.vsnl.net.in; ivanindo@indo.net.id; iwads@wa.net; jablack@indiana.edu; jackch@nbnet.nb.ca; jahern@stavis.com; jahworks@erols.com; jajjr@ibm.net; jamesons@maui.net; janboseafood@hotmail.com; jankajander@hotmail.com; jarrod@pc.jaring.my; jason@solar.mxl.cetys.mx; jaster@ats.com.au; jathomas@northcoast.com; jaworski@gsosun1.gso.uri.edu; jayaar@globalnet.co.uk; jbfoods@zebra.net; jcao@chinatrade.net; jccdyin@asiaonline.net.tw; jcmw@sietic.qd.sd.cn; jdkap@bellsouth.net; jeff@clearfreight.com; jeffd@baaderna.com; jerry@tunacan.com; jetalt@dol.ru; jetson97@aol.com; jf@doris-and-eds.com; jfack@urnerbarry.com; jfsins@ibm.com; jhb@bluemar.co.za; jhoward@nssc.ca; jimbifford@aol.com; jimesal@earthlink.net; jimge@aros.net; jinkwan@hotmail.com; jirza@marinet.com; jkjms@redrose.net; jklose@colomsat.net.co; jkstill@bcbso.com; jluque@mail.udep.edu.pe; jmurr@xyz.net; jobol@acy.digex.net; john@canfisco.com; johnm@intersea-seafood.com; johnrube@aol.com; josie491@ms16.hinet.net; jpabitbol@groupe-jp-abitbol.com; jpvdwalt@iafrica.com.na; jrbadham@mts.net; jsbigley@efish.com; jsimpson@sinmark.com; jt@star-asia.com; jttheron@mweb.co.za; jumainte@emirates.net.ae; jun@iastate.edu; jwebb@usabalone.com; kadr@videotron.ca; kanpa@cyber.net.pk; karinacb@argenet.com.ar; kathie@mail.ioma.com; kaventerprises@rocketmail.com; kazykuro@aol.com; kbar1@tgn.net; kbwizzard@aol.com; kdahlmann@bharchetype.com; keywest@gate.net; keywest876@aol.com; khabbaz@cyberia.net.lb; kianghua@loxinfo.co.th; kim0233@maoyi.co.kr; kimg@sladegorton.com; kirk@sala.net; klarsen1@compuserve.com; klitz@aol.com; km@star-asia.com; kodiak@kodiak.org; kpeters@wave.co.nz; ksamy@pppindia.com; kstone@interpath.com; kvy@hkabc.net; kvy@hkstar.com; kvy@pworld.net.ph; kwolfe@intellistar.net; lampert@fortnet.org; lawrence@arrowac-merco.com; lbaugh@freeyellow.com; leadway@ibm.net; lechagua@ctcreuna.cl; lemmi@datacomm.ch; lgt@mweb.co.za; liform2@salus.zp.ua; lili@statics.com.ar; lincoln@cyberg.it; listmanager@hookup.net; liverock@tbsaltwater.com; ljchin@tiac.net; ljox@earthlink.net; lk@star-asia.com; lk-cabling@bnet.at; Lm.sales@laitram.com; lmartin713@aol.com; lobster@peionline.com; lockcom@hlc.com; lollo@lollo.com; longwharfcrab@worldnet.att.net; lossie@wintermute.co.uk; l-rtudel@gmunro.ca; lseafood@aol.com; ludshrimp@aol.com; lyonspk@biruni.erum.com.pk; m1699@mcia.com; maasilks@blr.vsnl.net.in; macpac@mnsi.net; madhavwp@gatewaytoindia.com; mail@americanfood.com; mail@import-export-training.com; mail@vanco.net; manager@brazilnetwork.com; manager@internationalist.com; marctrad@icanect.net; mareusz@post5.ele.dk; marine@xiamen.gb.co.cn; marketing@oceangarden.com; Marketing@pacseafood.com; martinez@colombianpost.com; masi@gmunro.ca; mateusz@post5.tele.dk; matthew.renton@virgin.net; maurop@sistel.it; mazzico@aol.com; mbanda@deltasys.co.zw; mbox1as@mbox3.signet.com.sg; mcclmatt@nicoh.com; mcrandy@oro.net; mczm@state.ma.us; m-du@gmunro.ca; medfish@midcoast.com; mellco@tradezone.com; mendipez@readysoft.es; mermaidtrevor@btinternet.com; metal@vldbros.com; mfi@super.net.pk; miasa@statics.com.ar; michael.charalambous@british-airways.com; midatl@dmv.com; midlink@emirates.net.ae; midlun@midlun.is; mie@projekti.cs.jyu.fi; mikes.pe@aol.com; milton@nicanet.nicanet.com.ni; milton@nicanet.nicanet.com.ni; mitco@cris.com; mjw@chaser.co.uk; mlc@uncc.edu; mloder1079@aol.com; m-naraj@gmunro.ca; moana@xtra.co.nz; moietc@china-times.com; morsey@clinic.net; mrfish1@gte.net; mrussell@rmgcal.com; msardine@mint.net; mt2c@highcountry.net; mtadler@stavis.com; mtlfish@msn.com; MOUNTAIN HARBOUR DIST. INC.; multinet@homeindia.com; mwoods@wesco-hln.com; najinlu@public.yc.nx.cn; nancy@divcom.com; nason01@unitel.co; nason01@unitel.co.kr; naturecst@aol.com; nazcahf@mail.cosapidata.com.pe; ncognitotx@aol.com; neonet@nlr.nl; nepfishnj@aol.com; nestor@easynet.fr; network@giasmd01.vsnl.net.in; newage@trade-trade.com; newsroom@s-t.com; nexter@camerdata.es; ng@public.nc.jx.cn; nigelstevens@amaltal.co.nz; nilefish@sukumanet.com; nino@ionino.com; nippon1@entelchile.net; niva@telecom.net.et; njm@sealord.co.nz; nlov@west.net; nmoore@nfi.org; nobi@arrowac-merco.com; noel.turner@turner.co.nz; noelwh@aol.com; nopalax@internet.dk; noplax@internet.dk; notifyme@thaitrading.com; npesrl@tin.it; nsdp@bumi.net.id; nusa@indobiz.com; oancarola@sit.com.ar; oarpanfish@msn.com; oasis-ie@yahoo.com; oceansur@argenet.com.ar; ocn@usa.net; ocnblu@worldnet.att.net; office@nfi.org; office@starfish.no; oicrh@public.sta.net.cn; oks@nwlink.com; ole.christian@tangtare.no; omartins@auracom.com; omblus@cie.ut.ee; opport@magi.com; osc29@idt.net; otnot@alaska.net; owner-fisheries@biome.bio.ns.ca; owner-gated-people@merit.edu; owner-saluqi-h@plaidworks.com; owner-ssl-users@mincom.com; pacific@ptalaska; pacmarltda@chilnet.cl; pacseaf@gte.net; pall@cs.ait.ac.th; palmar@bakki.is; paul@dimareseafoods.com; pearlmar@total.net; pedrogm@arrakis.es; pesca@md3.vsnl.net.in; pescainde@usa.net; philipdh@dantran.com; phillip.west@exco.co.uk; phillip@intersea-seafood.com; philrt10@aol.com; phoenix@ncll.com; pinefurn@countrycraft.co.za; piscicom@mdearn.cri.md; pkcs-tng@rsa.com; pmc@idola.net.id; pmcfu1@tp.silkera.net; pngroup@ksc.th.com; polonia@odyssey.on.ca; portcan@aol.com; ported@mc.net; post@wiex.com; postmaster@exegesis.co.uk; postmaster@plaidworkd.com; pr@dwtc.com; prideseafood@westal.net; priscicom@mdearn.cri.md; procheck@earthlink.net; project@chinatrade.net; promar@swbell.net; promart@loxinfo.co.th; promosys@flash.net; proyecta@netline.cl; ps@star-asia.com; psandvi@ibm.com; pubit@mo.nettuno.it; qiao898@hotmail.com; qsy@hotmail.com; quality@lombardis.com; quirtt@schneider.com; r0mtex@airmail.net; raga@md3.vsnl.net.in; raja@md2.vsnl.net.in; rajcal@giascl01.vsnl.net.in; rajudyog@md2.vsnl.net.in; registration@spch.com; relegon@aol.com; reneg@total.net; renjith-r@hotmail.com; resumes@indiaprimer.com; revboard-sec@pch.gc.ca; reza@ad1.vsnl.net.in; rfay@flfreezer.com; rfb@wco.com; rhayman179@aol.com; rherman@gnn.com; rhi@regal-hotels.com; rick@www.heyworth.com; rickg@ari1.com; riturralde@email.msn.com; rlandy@stavis.com; rlevy@stavis.com; rmarkley@southshoresins.com; rmeasley@usa.net; rmfl@xtra.co.nz; rmg@rmgcal.com; rmore@cri.com; robert.blake@marcodirect.co.nz; robertvilla@msn.com; rodan@vera.net; rofish@onxynet.co.uk; romining@netverk.com.ar; root@baires.com; rstavis@stavis.com; rswalaa@rite.com; rtb@hkstar.com; rudani@mail.sen.com.ph; russell@peninsulaseafoods.com; ryan@orcabayfoods.com; ryuan@deltatrak.com; s.h.surury@technologist.com; s621630@aix2.uottawa.ca; sadao@clearfreight.com; sailor@cam.org; salaud@compuserve.com; sales@abisnet.com; sales@atlanticseacove.com; sales@bcsockeye.com; sales@blazessi.com; sales@bqe.com; sales@dimarseafoods.com; sales@dkenterprises.com; sales@globalexporters.net; sales@ietglobal.com; sales@pro-bolivia.com; sales@pwseafood.com; sales@shoretodoor.com; sales@united-fisheries.co.nz; sales@vistafoods.com; sales@wrightlobster.com; salesmgt@simu.co.nz; salman@dhaka.agni.com; salmon@mint.net; salmon@norse-crown-seafood.dk; salmon@schooner.org; salqui-h-info@plaidworks.com; saltman@stavis.com; samcney@emeraldcoast.com; sameer@c2.net; sanders@inkweb.com;  textilesei@chaozhou.com; tfbayly@marcon.co.nz; tgilship@gmunro.ca; thaiccs@mozart.inet.co.th; thammerman@aol.com; thlgrp@pacific.net.sg; threshold@nisa.net; ticofish@sol.racsa.co.cr; tim@exegesis.co.uk; timpship@gmunro.ca; tims@linjk.freedom.com; tjffarms@aol.com; tkromano@email.msn.com; tkunzer@aol.com; tlspence@w3pr.com; tmarks@kendall.mdcc.edu; tmarr@downtime.com; tnrcfood@mbnet.mb.ca; tom@iu.net; tony@arrow-merco.com; top@manufacture.com.tw; topseafood@worldnet.att.net; towndock@pop3.ids.net; tpkorea@kotis.net; tpsftcc@public.sta.net.cn; tptelisr@netvision.net.il; trade@blackworld.com; trade@ch-non-food.com; trade@opportun.kc3ltd.co.uk; tradexsfds@aol.com; transdata@webworldinc.com; travel@travel.com.hk; trisport@iml-net.com.na; trueco@dhivehinet.net.mv; tscorp@bom3.vsnl.net.in; tsfi@thongsiek.com.sg; tsmith@catgraph.com; tuna@ralboray.com; tuna@seanet.com; turbos@turbosales.com; t-xanth@gmunro.ca; u.s.a.-Inoel180471@aol.com; ufi@gte.net; unibr@unitel.co.kr; unirel@pace.edu; unisee@aol.com; unitedimport@att.com; university@geographix.com; uscodex@aol.com; vacpacsf@mozcom.com; valpado@hotmail.com; vcilp@lumen.vcilp.ortg; vela@wave.co.nz; vfuks@jaguar.ir.miami.edu; vhg04@emirates.net.ae; victian@shell.tjvan.com.cn; victian@shell.tjvan.net.cn; victorray@aol.com; vietnam.order@cgtd.com; vipul@pobox.com; virginia@clearfreight.com; vishop@freemail.nl; visshop@dsv.nl; visshop@freemail.nl; vixens@ptialaska.net; vr4u@ksc8.th.com; vshlexps@hotmail.com; waag@email.msn.com; waltraut@arrowac-merco.com; wangh@mail.zlnet.co.cn; wangrap@public.ytptt.sd.cn; warcher@nafta.net; waynes@connet80.com; web@acdev.com; web@xmission.com; webhost@seafoodleader.com; webmaster@dragoncity.com.sg; webmaster@goldq.com; web-requests@www.aphis.usda.gov; wenqx@sd.cei.go.cn; westlake@globalvision.net; whigs@del2.vsnl.net.in; whm.fmii@auracom.com; wingtop@algonet.se; wiwate@cementhai.co.th; woceanus@aol.com; wolfmarine@aol.com; wolftanks@aol.com; wpwoods@aol.com; wrefhann@ihug.co.nz; wschin@ascl.com; wservice@simcoe.igs.net; wsking@ibm.net; wtcor@gdi.net; www.hunterss@sprynet.com; wsl@cerebalaw.com; www@scanvec.com; wytree@telekbird.com.cn; xcdc@xpublic.fz.fj.cn; xw@tdl-info.net; xzsawqe@emirates.net.ae; yangdong@public.jn.sd.cn; yesintl@flmarinenet.com; ylil@aol.com; young66@aol.com; ytzx@public.rzptt.sd.cn; zafir@home.com; zakat97@aol.com; John Arnold; zhangxn@hichina.com; zhwindow@pub.zhuai.gd.cn; ziplar@writeme.com; zoro@mpsnet.com.mx; zsy@pub1.fz.fj.cn; ztiec@public.hz.zj.cn; ztiec@ztiec.com; zxd@club.pages.com.cn; zxd1098@bigfoot.com; zxw@public.hz.zj.cn; bkmco@hotmail.com; callisfd@hotmail.com; shuler@computextos.com.pe; ecssfd@bellsouth.net; gamvie@pop3.concentric.net; expork12@ecua.net.ec; milton@nicnet.com.ni; itc@khi.compol.com; silvabue@totalnet.com.ar; active.83@netvision.net.il; Calembo@gnet.tn; ng@dcdmc.intnet.mu; abs@tassie.net.au; camtas@mox.com.au; freofish@icenet.com.au; demcos@ozemail.com.au; lee@sia.net.au; woodfish@pronet.com.au; sumnersf@oe.net.au; westmanp@acr.net.au; yoshida-H@syd.marubeni.co.jp; hirakitsukamoto@austrade.gov.au; lobsterdoc@aol.com; sjr@bb.rc.vix.com; sjoyce@thai.com; skip@futureone.com; cmsacv@debtel.com.mx
Subject: 	The Catch of the Week

                               
 

             The Catch of the Week
         SEAFOOD INDUSTRY INFORMATION SERVICE
 
Hello, welcome to the "NEW" newsletter, now available via e-mail  from SEA-EX.
 
As you know, Sea-Ex is an Australian company which provides a service connecting buyer to seller - DIRECT.  We are now expanding our newsletter to cover e-mail. 

This service provides you with an opportunity to promote and expose your company and products to numerous contacts in the seafood industry both in Australia and abroad, weekly.  It is a simple, yet effective way to promote yourself - Direct to your industry.  

To place your FREE classified see below.

                      THIS IS WEEK ONE (1) OF A FREE FOUR (4)  WEEK TRIAL.
We would also welcome comments you may have regarding this newsletter, and we are also open to any suggestions to improve this service.
 
1.  Uptop Fisheries Pty Ltd                AUSTRALIA                                        OPEN MARKET
Goods supplied:  Sharkfins (Wet), Shark cartiledge (frozen), Shark & mackeral fillets & trunks (frozen)
Contact Jenny Davies  uptop@iinet.net.au
 
 
2.  Adelaide Bay Seafoods Pty Ltd               AUSTRALIA                           OPEN MARKET 
Goods supplied:  Live and frozen greenlip and blacklip abalone.
Contact:  Loraine Kossmann    abs@tassie.net.au
 
3.  Cameron of Tasmania Pty Ltd                   AUSTRALIA                         OPEN MARKET               
 Goods supplied:  Live pacific oysters, frozen half shell Pacific oysters, Golden Pacific Oysters.
Contact:  Michael Cameron or Edgar Burtschner        camtas@mox.com.au
 
4.  Oakfair International                                     AUSTRALIA                         OPEN MARKET
Goods supplied:  sardines (WR & Fillets), Cod (H&G and fillets), Alaskan Pollock (H&G and Fillets), Scallops, Squid, Octopus, Sockeye Salmon, Pink Salmon, Chinook Salmon, Chum Salmon, Coho Salmon, Flounder.
Contact:  Charlie   oakfair@icenet.com.au
 
5.  Pacific Business Pty Ltd                              AUSTRALIA                        OPEN MARKET
 Goods supplied:  Representative of "Golden Emperor" canned Abalone, exporter of "Pacific" canned Abalone, Frozen, Live, Cooked Abalone.  Frozen Scallops, fish and seafood.
Contact:  Stephen Lee   lee@sia.net.au
 
6.  Wood Fisheries Pty Ltd                                AUSTRALIA                       OPEN MARKET
Goods supplied:  Stout whiting, yellow-tail scad, tuna, finfish and deepwater finfish.
Contact:  A.K. (Sandy) Wood-Meredith   woodfish@pronet.com.au
 
7.  Fremantle Fish Farms                                  AUSTRALIA                       AUSTRALIA ONLY
Goods supplied:  Sardines (WR & Fillets), Alaskan Cod (H&G and fillets) Smoked Russian Sockeye Salmon.
Contact:  Steve Wilkinson    freofish@icenet.com.au
 
8.  Demcos Seafoods Pty Ltd          AUSTRALIA                  SYDNEY     AUSTRALIA ONLY
Restaurants a speciality. Providors of Finer Seafood.   Seasonal fresh produce of TOP QUALITY.  
Inquiries, contact Con or James   demcos@ozemail.com.au 
 
9.  Moana Pacific Fisheries Ltd                   NEW ZEALAND                    OPEN MARKET
Goods supplied:  FROZEN:  Alfonsino, barracoutta, cardinal, flake, flounder, New Zealand sole, lemon sole, orange roughy, monkfish, rubyfish, scampi, snapper, gemfish, hoki fillets.  FRESH:  Bluenose, snapper, tarakihi, orange roughy, live greenlip mussels, flounders, gurnard, moonfish, john dory, groper/bass, trevally, broadbill swordfish.
Contact:  Rachel Joughin or Bruce Bird    moana@xtra.co.nz 
 
10.  Great White Holdings Pty Ltd                 AUSTRALIA                       OPEN MARKET
Goods supplied:  Live mud crabs, live pippies, live Pacific oysters.
Contact Nick or Stan    mudcrabs@zed.org 
 
11.  Global Seafood Fisheries                        AUSTRALIA                       OPEN MARKET
 
Goods supplied:  Coral trout (frozen raw), Tropical lobster tails, mullet roe, scallop meat - roe off.  Fresh fish.
                          Frozen Prawns:  Banana, Endeavour, King and Tiger.
Contact:  Neal Harris    glosea@bigpond.com
 
12.  Sumner Seafood Export Australia                                                    OPEN MARKET
Goods supplied:  LIVE coral trout, LIVE Lobster.  LIVE spanner and mud crabs.  Frozen and Chilled reef fish and estuary fish and frozen Queensland scallops.
Contact:   David Hoac     sumnersf@oe.net.au 
 
13.  P & E Foods Inc               Hawaii USA                                               OPEN MARKET
Goods Supplied:  Frozen seafood, pork, meat, poultry.  Fish, shellfish, lobster, crab.
Contact:  Stephen S.C.Lee        Telephone:  + 1 808 839 9094           Fax:  + 1 808 833 5182
 
14.  Pacific Marine Farms 1996 Ltd          NEW ZEALAND                 OPEN MARKET
Goods supplied:  1/2 shell oysters - chilled and frozen
Contact:  Vince Syddall           Telephone:  + 64 7 866 8564             Fax:  + 64 7 866 8753 
 
15.  Clyde River Oyster Company           AUSTRALIA                        AUSTRALIA ONLY
Goods supplied:  Clyde River (Australia) Oysters.
Contact:    Mr Bill Suter  suters@acr.net.au         or       Mr Paul Westman     westmanp@acr.net.au 

 
                              --------------------------oooOOOooo-------------------------------

Above are just some of our suppliers listed in our Directories of Seafood Suppliers.  For more information, see our website at http://www.big.net.au/~seaex.   When contacting these people, be sure to mention SEA-EX!!!

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All classifieds are submitted by individual companies.  While every care has been taken in compiling this newletter, Sea-Ex will not be held responsible for any error or omissions.  The advertising in this newsletter is the sole responsibility of the companies who place the classifieds and Sea-Ex will not be held liable in any way for any loss or injury whatsoever, in business dealings with these companies. 
 

 

<><><>





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Belinda Cook 
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 03:10:16 -0700 (PDT)
To: "402000155@edi.de>
Subject: RE: The Catch of the Week
Message-ID: <01BDC07E.E1BCC8E0@sladl4p61.ozemail.com.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




----------
From: 	Sea-Ex[SMTP:seaex@big.net.au]
Sent: 	Wednesday, 5 August 1998 11:25
To: 	abafish@midwest.com.au; t.lewis@agsci.utas.edu.au; richig@g150.aone.net.au; amrico@ynet.y-net.com.au; pkrogh@powerup.com.au; aquatas@tassie.net.au; ari@argonaut.com.au; gwk2103@midcoast.com.au; sydaatz@ozemail.com.au; austfish@uret.net.au; Cheryl.Stanilewicz@austrade.gov.au; delia.ancrum-tennyson@austrade.gov.au; sean.riley@austrade.gov.au; newfish@icenet.com.au; peteryau@smart.net.au; colin@bight.com.au; 100245.2366@compuserve.com; austsea@pl.camtech.net.au; athors@ozemail.com.au; beku@southcom.com.au; bemco@bigpond.com; suters@acr.net.au; blueseas@blueseas.com.au; taspac@m140.aone.net.au; csi@squirrel.com.au; cccs@fastlink.com.au; gordon.yearsley@marine.csiro.au; tbp@bigpond.com.au; dominic@acay.com.au; delsea66@wizard.teksupport.net.au; djhfood@ecn.net.au; doverfis@ozemail.com.au; eppl@ca.com.au; erimusbl@ozemail.com.au; chen@seol.net.au; faroint@geko.net.au; fijifish@ozeafood.com; fisman@lisp.com.au; kippo@onaustralia.com.au; frionor@melbourne.starway.net.au; goodbran@next.com.au; glosea@bigpond.com; mcgrath@compack.com.au; mudcrabs@zed.org; trades@ibbco.aust.com; interon@ozemail.com.au; jbcfoods@internetnorth.com.au; johnjbsmarketing@bigpond.com; heriot@malvern.starway.net.au; kailis@enternet.com.au; lisa@kfm.dializ.oz.au; brolos@midwest.com.au; kenbry@onthenet.com.au; kvy@iig.com.au; kaquam@eisa.net.au; kvytas@eisa.net.au; marron@wn.com.au; derekw@powerup.com.au; con@dove.net.au; lonimar@ozemail.com.au; jai@one.net.au; mackayreef@m130.aone.net.au; exec@magnum.com.au; mncrdb@midcoast.com.au; milligan@iinet.net.au; jwilliams@mitco.com.au; mulataga@nettrek.com.au; munroint@bigpond.com.au; fishing@mures.com.au; warren@nswabalone.com.au; newberys@compuserve.com; ruelloinc@wr.com.au; nortas@netspace.net.au; oakfair@icenet.com.au; oceanic@oceanic.com.au; centavo@klever.net.au; pandm@ozemail.com.au; pacbasin@locainet.com.au; hanbo@vision.net.au; rdsimp@ozemail.com.au; roger@eis.net.au; pbros@poulosbros.com.au; cqcray@tpgi.com.au; andyjc@rainbowvalley.com.au; raptxpbr@ozemail.com.au; rathty@ncomm.net; redgum@networx.com.au; restfish@cairns.net.au; ricland@hotmail.com; jordans@mail.bigpond.com; seaforce@werple.net.au; seafresh@ozemail.com.au; johnperry@vicnet.net.au; sea@sealanes.com.au; scanning@iconnect.net.au; sori@pl.camtech.net.au; skolb@treko.net.au; swanboathire@beachaccess.com.au; sydfish@poulosbros.com.au; tas.fish@tassie.net.au; redfin@tassie.net.au; tascfood@ozemail.com.au; tassal@tassal.com.au; rebel-marine@iif.com.au; unichef@ozemail.com.au; uptop@iinet.net.au; ufish@peg.apc.org; wlake@midcoast.com.au; aqua@wn.com.au; weststate@accessin.com.au; bazza@ois.com.au; dcrichton@raptis.com.au; goodfood@ozemail.com.au; nifty6@hotmail.com; aquacns@sunshine.net.au; austrimi@onaustralia.com.au; 102060.3177@compuserve.com; 102400.611@compuserve.com; 103201.2076@compuserve.com; 1seafood@gte.net; 402000155@edi.de; 4272199@pager.mirabilis.com; 72530.2606@compuserve.com; 74133.231@compuserve.com; 76130.3373@compuserve.com; a.a.ali@cyber.net.pk; a39h0428@daisy.bu.ac.th; a912t19@idt.net; aarax@emirates.net.ae; access@seanet.com; accordim@ix.netcom.com; acee@raleigh.ibm.com; acmefish@aol.com; active83@netvision.net.il; admin@golden-trade.com; admin@infomare.it; admin@trade-express.com; administrator@ms.anfeng.com.tw; aef375006@pbs6.milton.port.ac.uk; aespeleta@compunet.net.co; afta@halcyon.com; agv@riverside.com; aj.lagemaat@hasdb.agro.nl; akafi@hotmail.com; akiko@nz.com; akoromilas@aol.com; akreds@aol.com; alabbas@super.net.pk; alainlange@hotmail.com; alan@astrainfo.com; alasund@ok.is; alberti@alberti-import-export.com; alconed@nexo.es; aldenaro@juno.com; aldot@usa.net; alfordj@digitalexp.com; alford-j@popmail.firn.edu; algaetech@maine.com; al-khulaqsaj@cardiff.ac.uk; allaboutexport@allaboutexport.com; alnida@giasmd01.vsnl.net.in; alpbay@aol.com; alphins@nceye.net; alsaeurope@glo.be; alzubedi@hotmail.com; amac@newave.net.au; amazonfish@aol.com; amazonpp@gate.net; ambrosca@ix.netcom.com; amesfer@khaleej.net.bh; amfood@netside.net; ampac@usa.net; anali@slt.lk; anandhi@giasmd01.vsnl.net.in; anders.wennerblom@bfc.umea.se; andre@galaxy-7.net; andreae@seaharvest.co.za; andujar@coqui.net; annette@bom3.vsnl.net.in; anova@anovafood.net; anton.triasta.citarate@ibm.net; antons@ww.co.nz; aolim@pacific.net.sg; aparrna@giasmd01.vsnl.net.in; apbimbo@crosslink.net; apexport@giascl01.vsnl.net.in; aquajet@ix.netcom.com; aquaman14@hotmail.com; aquamarsd@msn.com; arcpac@usa.net; areacode@sirius.com; arf@northcoast.com; arodri@hermes.uninet.net.mx; arqueo@pananet.com; art@the-wire.com; ashraf-hafez@usa.net; assistan@argenet.com.ar; aswin@md2.vsnl.net.in; athar@pak.net; atlahua@exxor.red2000.com.mx; atlahua@mail.red2000.com.mx; atlantic@atlantic.no; atldir@cgocable.net; ato@internet-fr.net; auction@ime.net; ausender@hotmail.com; avra@giasmd01.vsnl.net.in; bamboobridge@valise.com; bas@cerf.net; bastasic@modesty.bl.ac.yu; baymail@datasync.com; bbs@visi.com; bdaplace@iamerica.net; bearcat1@teleport.com; bell@giasmd01.vsnl.net.in; bensouda@moroccouscouncil.org; bgaines@lausd.k12.ca.us; bgill@citrus.infi.net; BH1099@aol.com; bikky@giasdl01.vsnl.net.in; bill@envirotainer.com; bionov@qbc.clic.net; bizhelper@angelfire.com; bizopp@forfree.at; b-jack@gmunro.ca; bjorn@ok.is; bleblanc@stavis.com; bliintl@cyberway.com.sg; blktigr@msn.com; blount@ix.netcom.com; bmaver4843@aol.com; boards@vldbros.com; bob@mcs.nl; boeki@netlaputa.ne.jp; bonecom@indosat.net.id; bonmark@zoo.co.uk; borzysz@friko2.onet.pl; borzysz@kki.net.pl; borzysz@polbox.com; bosbaybsn@msn.com; botsford@nbnet.nb.ca; bowen@zoomnet.net; bpeters@c4.net; brdbinca@aol.com; bregliano@big.it; brendanc@jetcity.com; brian@intersea-seafood.com; brian@neptunetrading.com; bright@bangla.net; brunop@idirect.com; bsd@mnet.fr; bstavis@stavis.com; bstrack@micron.net; btruedale@techpak.com; btruesdale@techpak.com; burren.fish@iol.ie; bziemann@aol.com; callissfd@hotmail.com; caltec@netvision.net.il; camanchaca@chilnet.cl; candying@bellsouth.net; cantanzaro.rich@heb.com; capeq@tiac.net; capitaine.cook@wanadoo.fr; capt.kev@usa.net; captcarl@haccp-seafood.com; captpaul@ptialaska.net; cardrest@gte.net; careers@careers.co.nz; carl@media.org; carol@gb.is.is; casafonso@aol.com; catanzaro.rich@heb.com; catchday@bellsouth.net; catego@i3d.qc.ca; ccdining@communique.net; cclink@idirect.com; cclong@redrose.net; cdtitles@world.std.com; ceyfoods@sri.lanka.net; cfxa31a@prodigy.com; c-gill@gmunro.ca; chandroo@rocketmail.com; changyun@public.nbptt.zj.cn; channel@icanect.net; charles@mcs.nl; chauvin@shrimpcom.com; cheena@mindlink.bc.ca; chesfishco@aol.com; chfish@cport.com; chinafish@china-fish.com; chips@geogr.ku.dk; chocolate@creativetreets.com; chris.carlson@pyamonarch.com; chris@clearsprings.com; christin.riise@atlantic.no; cian@gmunro.ca; cj@star-asia.com; cjmcoltd@ms13.hinet.net; cjnp@telcel.net.ve; ckeyes@iclp.com; ckeyes@mnib.com; clarke@marinefoods.co.nz; clarkew@allust.com.au; clickware@aol.com; cliff@key-west.com; clnis@clnis.inet.fi; clrfsfo@clearfreight.com; cnazca@perusat.net.pe; cockle@nzcockle.co.nz; cohansfd@aol.com; colland@earthlink.net; collins@myriadgate.net; comments@funbarbados.com; comments@global-imp-exp.com; comodity@gate.net; connors@exodus.uk.com; cooper@connors-seafoods.co.uk; coral@dhivehinet.net.mv; correo@avillar.es; cost@tkp.riga.lv; cottage@shore.intercom.net; coven@tin.it; cpayne@cwo.com; cpersio@csrlink.net; c-pride@juno.com; cpshkcom@netvigator.com; crawfish@microweb.com; crotonainternational1@home.com; cs-k@nnr.co.jp; csp@zebra.net; CTcallah@ix.netcom.com; cthomas@thomas-enterprises.com; ctk@worldnet.att.net; ctzj@pub.zjpta.net.cn; curinde@curacao.com; Custserv@fisherseafood.com; cypherpunks@toad.com; dabomb3044@aol.com; daciec@mail.dalian-gov.net; dacocorp@ix.netcom.com; dan@siri.org; dana@greatseafood.com; danex@vip.cybercity.dk; daruma@gte.net; david@cn.net.au; david123@gte.net; davids@saol.com; dawsonpaul@bigpond.com.au; dbfc@newportnet.com; dbilderb@pld.com; dbreede@ais.net; dd@star-asia.com; decay@flash.net; decdeb@tinet.ie; dedwards@iclp.com; dedwards@mnib.com; den@alona.net; dennis@rainbowtuna.com; dennisk@mitsui-foods.com; destudio@public1.sz.js.net; developers@reckon.com.au; devinequi@aol.com; dherrilko@webtv.net; dichten@hotmail.com; dim-daniels@aaf-hq2.tyson.com; dinon@dinon.com; divsfdsvc@ala.net; djfitz@iafrica.com; dkrishna@giasmd01.vsnl.net.in; dmine@ffb.fr; dongtai@public.cz.js.cn; donthompsonhaccp@msn.com; dorothy.ortale@yale.edu; drudie@ix.netcom.com; druin@laker.net; ds@star-asia.com; dsx@xnet.com; dunns@clubi.ie; dusan@menadzer.com; dutchi@netvision.net.il; dynamic@mweb.co.za; easleyj@doacs.state.fl.us; ebiberger@stavis.com; e-commerce@ceiec.com; ed.noel@snet.net; edepa@argenet.com.ar; editor@cbn.co.za; ekkwill@compuserve.com; elishias@onslowonline.net; elmara@rad.net.id; emes@brigadoon.com; emiliani@usa.net; emirikol@swbell.net; emmitt@clinic.net; envirotainer@envirotainer.com; ephemera@light.lightlink.com; erukos@sureste.com; estavis@stavis.com; ethedm@gte.net; eugenesu@ms13.hinet.net; eurotank@atlantic.net; evaldas@bi.balt.net; evarga@doc.gov; evolution@webdepart.com; exfresh@aol.com; eximport@idt.net; expac@aol.com; expack@aol.com; export@intl-tradement.com; ex-sfd@bellwouth.net; exshrimp@aol.com; extrapro@procosur.com; extrem@fx.ro; fairlanefd@juno.com; famold@mindspring.com; fao@eastfish.org; fasinfo@fas.usda.gov; fatcrab@steamedcrabs.com; fathoms@funbarbados.com; fazfrmgt2@aol.com; fbcab@mbox.vol.it; fdm@catsnet.com; filip@envirotainer.com; fininc@nbnet.nb.ca; firefuzz@datasync.com; fish.amal@clear.net.nz; fish@fishroute.com; fish@mgh.hb.eunet.de; fish@stavis.com; fish@web-net.com; fishbid@xyz.net; fishdev@aol.com; fisheries@ecology.bio.dfo.ca; fishhouse@pennekamp.com; fishinc@nbnet.nb.ca; fishmaninc@yahoo.com; fishmore@windsor.igs.net; fiskmark@treknet.is; fjdonoso@reuna.cl; fjord@gate.net; flhansen@pro-bolivia.com; fmak@tm.net.my; foodexp@sminter.com.ar; foodpro@voyager.co.nz; fratello@mendazer.com; Freeko@smipc.or.kr; freshfish@worldnet.att.net; friomar@adinet.com.uy; frozen@wanchese.com; fulfish@mail.cosapidata.com.pe; furni@fzu.edu.cn; fwu@deltatrak.com; gadco@iec.egnet.net; gadus@istar.ca; gaintown@ms14.hinet.net; gambie@pop3.concentric.net; gao@public.fz.fj.cn; garments@sietic.qd.sd.cn; garza@lagnetcom.mx; gated-people@merit.edu; gatorstick@aol.com; gdmec@dgup3.gd.cei.gov.cn; genehickman@msn.com; geoperfect@tip.nl; geotech@giasmd01.vsnl.net.in; germst@earthlink.net; ghodges@temptale.com; gilship@gmunro.ca; ginacarvalho@trinidad.net; gipse@node.com.br; gjh@pacific.net.sg; gjlimp@aol.com; gjsmall@worldnet.att.net; gla@glassociates.com; glacier@halcyon.com; glk@idt.net; global.wildlife@gtnet.gov.uk; global1940@aol.com; glynns@freewwweb.com; glynns@smart1.net; gnu@toad.com; gnyba@friko2.onet.pl; gnyba@kki.net.pl; gnyba@polbox.com; goldenstar@chinatrade.net; goodrichho@msn.com; gothamsfd@aol.com; gourmetclb@aol.com; gprobst142@aol.com; grans@gmunro.ca; graphic@lenet.fr; graycen@mindspring.com; g-routes@fox.nstn.ns.ca; gssfd@bellsouth.net; gtc@manufacture.com.tw; gulfexpress@gulfexpress.com; gunjur@aol.com; gwadman@tartannet.ns.ca; gylin@usa.net; gyorke@infoshare.ca; gzgarden@public.guangzhou.gd.cn; gzgmg@public1.guangzhou.gd.cn; hartsell.james.R000@sysco.com; halfbeak@hotmail.com; hallman@law.vill.edu; hansung@t-online.de; harish@giasmd01.vsnl.net.in; hcsp@dlews1.dl.cei.gov.cn; heinrich@indosat.net.id; helgimar@valeik.is; help@leisterpro.com; hendersd@mailgate.net.treas.gov; hernandezb@aol.com; hillsburn@ns.sympatico.ca; hillsburn@ns.sypatico.ca; himsa@himsa.com; hiteccom@giasmd01.vsnl.net.in; hmekran@paknet3.ptc.pk; hmunro@ibm.net; hnfishco@ix.netcom.com; hoxenberg@aol.com; hskaar@skaarint.com; huff@solander.co.nz; hugwill@total.net; hunterexporters@hunterlink.net.au; hunterss@sprynet.com; hwamerica@aol.com; hziq55@public.hzptt.sd.cn; ian@csiseafood.co.nz; ideveau@klis.com; idk@idkconsulting.com; imartin713@aol.com; impexc2000@aol.com; impship@gmunro.ca; incofoods@chilnet.cl; ine@tbd.gov.sg; info@abisnet.com; info@amalmark.co.nz; info@axcessdata.com; info@banxia.com; info@bavariacorp.com; info@blundellseafoods.com; info@ca-seafood.org; info@catalogmall.com; info@citgroup.com.cs; info@clearfreight.com; info@commodityspecialists.com; info@commodityspecialistscompsny.com; info@corp.maf.govt.nz; info@cylinder-slide.com; info@export.nl; info@frozenfish.com; info@fundch.cl; info@handycrab.com; info@harbinger.com; info@henningsen.com; info@hichina.com; info@ilmondo.com; info@infofish.com; info@insuracepros.com; info@liveseafood.com; info@mafi.com; info@meadowswye.com; info@pbb.com; info@pioneer97.co.uk; info@pro-bolivia.com; info@royal-import-export.com; info@sanford.co.nz; info@scanvec.com; info@schema.de; info@sportika.com; info@takari.com; info@tcal.com; info@tradepost-chat.com; info@visshop.com; info@world-trading.com; infoavi@mx.cei.gov.cn; infocom@del2.vsnl.net.in; information@deepseaproductsinc.com; information@intertrade.net; interagr@shadow.net; interdat@silverlink.net; interfoo.dltda001@chilnet.cl; interpex@usa.net; interprenr@aol.com; intlsupport@scanvec.com; isfoss@isholf.is; itc@ispinfo.com; itl@md2.vsnl.net.in; ivanindo@indo.net.id; iwads@wa.net; jablack@indiana.edu; jackch@nbnet.nb.ca; jahern@stavis.com; jahworks@erols.com; jajjr@ibm.net; jamesons@maui.net; janboseafood@hotmail.com; jankajander@hotmail.com; jarrod@pc.jaring.my; jason@solar.mxl.cetys.mx; jaster@ats.com.au; jathomas@northcoast.com; jaworski@gsosun1.gso.uri.edu; jayaar@globalnet.co.uk; jbfoods@zebra.net; jcao@chinatrade.net; jccdyin@asiaonline.net.tw; jcmw@sietic.qd.sd.cn; jdkap@bellsouth.net; jeff@clearfreight.com; jeffd@baaderna.com; jerry@tunacan.com; jetalt@dol.ru; jetson97@aol.com; jf@doris-and-eds.com; jfack@urnerbarry.com; jfsins@ibm.com; jhb@bluemar.co.za; jhoward@nssc.ca; jimbifford@aol.com; jimesal@earthlink.net; jimge@aros.net; jinkwan@hotmail.com; jirza@marinet.com; jkjms@redrose.net; jklose@colomsat.net.co; jkstill@bcbso.com; jluque@mail.udep.edu.pe; jmurr@xyz.net; jobol@acy.digex.net; john@canfisco.com; johnm@intersea-seafood.com; johnrube@aol.com; josie491@ms16.hinet.net; jpabitbol@groupe-jp-abitbol.com; jpvdwalt@iafrica.com.na; jrbadham@mts.net; jsbigley@efish.com; jsimpson@sinmark.com; jt@star-asia.com; jttheron@mweb.co.za; jumainte@emirates.net.ae; jun@iastate.edu; jwebb@usabalone.com; kadr@videotron.ca; kanpa@cyber.net.pk; karinacb@argenet.com.ar; kathie@mail.ioma.com; kaventerprises@rocketmail.com; kazykuro@aol.com; kbar1@tgn.net; kbwizzard@aol.com; kdahlmann@bharchetype.com; keywest@gate.net; keywest876@aol.com; khabbaz@cyberia.net.lb; kianghua@loxinfo.co.th; kim0233@maoyi.co.kr; kimg@sladegorton.com; kirk@sala.net; klarsen1@compuserve.com; klitz@aol.com; km@star-asia.com; kodiak@kodiak.org; kpeters@wave.co.nz; ksamy@pppindia.com; kstone@interpath.com; kvy@hkabc.net; kvy@hkstar.com; kvy@pworld.net.ph; kwolfe@intellistar.net; lampert@fortnet.org; lawrence@arrowac-merco.com; lbaugh@freeyellow.com; leadway@ibm.net; lechagua@ctcreuna.cl; lemmi@datacomm.ch; lgt@mweb.co.za; liform2@salus.zp.ua; lili@statics.com.ar; lincoln@cyberg.it; listmanager@hookup.net; liverock@tbsaltwater.com; ljchin@tiac.net; ljox@earthlink.net; lk@star-asia.com; lk-cabling@bnet.at; Lm.sales@laitram.com; lmartin713@aol.com; lobster@peionline.com; lockcom@hlc.com; lollo@lollo.com; longwharfcrab@worldnet.att.net; lossie@wintermute.co.uk; l-rtudel@gmunro.ca; lseafood@aol.com; ludshrimp@aol.com; lyonspk@biruni.erum.com.pk; m1699@mcia.com; maasilks@blr.vsnl.net.in; macpac@mnsi.net; madhavwp@gatewaytoindia.com; mail@americanfood.com; mail@import-export-training.com; mail@vanco.net; manager@brazilnetwork.com; manager@internationalist.com; marctrad@icanect.net; mareusz@post5.ele.dk; marine@xiamen.gb.co.cn; marketing@oceangarden.com; Marketing@pacseafood.com; martinez@colombianpost.com; masi@gmunro.ca; mateusz@post5.tele.dk; matthew.renton@virgin.net; maurop@sistel.it; mazzico@aol.com; mbanda@deltasys.co.zw; mbox1as@mbox3.signet.com.sg; mcclmatt@nicoh.com; mcrandy@oro.net; mczm@state.ma.us; m-du@gmunro.ca; medfish@midcoast.com; mellco@tradezone.com; mendipez@readysoft.es; mermaidtrevor@btinternet.com; metal@vldbros.com; mfi@super.net.pk; miasa@statics.com.ar; michael.charalambous@british-airways.com; midatl@dmv.com; midlink@emirates.net.ae; midlun@midlun.is; mie@projekti.cs.jyu.fi; mikes.pe@aol.com; milton@nicanet.nicanet.com.ni; milton@nicanet.nicanet.com.ni; mitco@cris.com; mjw@chaser.co.uk; mlc@uncc.edu; mloder1079@aol.com; m-naraj@gmunro.ca; moana@xtra.co.nz; moietc@china-times.com; morsey@clinic.net; mrfish1@gte.net; mrussell@rmgcal.com; msardine@mint.net; mt2c@highcountry.net; mtadler@stavis.com; mtlfish@msn.com; MOUNTAIN HARBOUR DIST. INC.; multinet@homeindia.com; mwoods@wesco-hln.com; najinlu@public.yc.nx.cn; nancy@divcom.com; nason01@unitel.co; nason01@unitel.co.kr; naturecst@aol.com; nazcahf@mail.cosapidata.com.pe; ncognitotx@aol.com; neonet@nlr.nl; nepfishnj@aol.com; nestor@easynet.fr; network@giasmd01.vsnl.net.in; newage@trade-trade.com; newsroom@s-t.com; nexter@camerdata.es; ng@public.nc.jx.cn; nigelstevens@amaltal.co.nz; nilefish@sukumanet.com; nino@ionino.com; nippon1@entelchile.net; niva@telecom.net.et; njm@sealord.co.nz; nlov@west.net; nmoore@nfi.org; nobi@arrowac-merco.com; noel.turner@turner.co.nz; noelwh@aol.com; nopalax@internet.dk; noplax@internet.dk; notifyme@thaitrading.com; npesrl@tin.it; nsdp@bumi.net.id; nusa@indobiz.com; oancarola@sit.com.ar; oarpanfish@msn.com; oasis-ie@yahoo.com; oceansur@argenet.com.ar; ocn@usa.net; ocnblu@worldnet.att.net; office@nfi.org; office@starfish.no; oicrh@public.sta.net.cn; oks@nwlink.com; ole.christian@tangtare.no; omartins@auracom.com; omblus@cie.ut.ee; opport@magi.com; osc29@idt.net; otnot@alaska.net; owner-fisheries@biome.bio.ns.ca; owner-gated-people@merit.edu; owner-saluqi-h@plaidworks.com; owner-ssl-users@mincom.com; pacific@ptalaska; pacmarltda@chilnet.cl; pacseaf@gte.net; pall@cs.ait.ac.th; palmar@bakki.is; paul@dimareseafoods.com; pearlmar@total.net; pedrogm@arrakis.es; pesca@md3.vsnl.net.in; pescainde@usa.net; philipdh@dantran.com; phillip.west@exco.co.uk; phillip@intersea-seafood.com; philrt10@aol.com; phoenix@ncll.com; pinefurn@countrycraft.co.za; piscicom@mdearn.cri.md; pkcs-tng@rsa.com; pmc@idola.net.id; pmcfu1@tp.silkera.net; pngroup@ksc.th.com; polonia@odyssey.on.ca; portcan@aol.com; ported@mc.net; post@wiex.com; postmaster@exegesis.co.uk; postmaster@plaidworkd.com; pr@dwtc.com; prideseafood@westal.net; priscicom@mdearn.cri.md; procheck@earthlink.net; project@chinatrade.net; promar@swbell.net; promart@loxinfo.co.th; promosys@flash.net; proyecta@netline.cl; ps@star-asia.com; psandvi@ibm.com; pubit@mo.nettuno.it; qiao898@hotmail.com; qsy@hotmail.com; quality@lombardis.com; quirtt@schneider.com; r0mtex@airmail.net; raga@md3.vsnl.net.in; raja@md2.vsnl.net.in; rajcal@giascl01.vsnl.net.in; rajudyog@md2.vsnl.net.in; registration@spch.com; relegon@aol.com; reneg@total.net; renjith-r@hotmail.com; resumes@indiaprimer.com; revboard-sec@pch.gc.ca; reza@ad1.vsnl.net.in; rfay@flfreezer.com; rfb@wco.com; rhayman179@aol.com; rherman@gnn.com; rhi@regal-hotels.com; rick@www.heyworth.com; rickg@ari1.com; riturralde@email.msn.com; rlandy@stavis.com; rlevy@stavis.com; rmarkley@southshoresins.com; rmeasley@usa.net; rmfl@xtra.co.nz; rmg@rmgcal.com; rmore@cri.com; robert.blake@marcodirect.co.nz; robertvilla@msn.com; rodan@vera.net; rofish@onxynet.co.uk; romining@netverk.com.ar; root@baires.com; rstavis@stavis.com; rswalaa@rite.com; rtb@hkstar.com; rudani@mail.sen.com.ph; russell@peninsulaseafoods.com; ryan@orcabayfoods.com; ryuan@deltatrak.com; s.h.surury@technologist.com; s621630@aix2.uottawa.ca; sadao@clearfreight.com; sailor@cam.org; salaud@compuserve.com; sales@abisnet.com; sales@atlanticseacove.com; sales@bcsockeye.com; sales@blazessi.com; sales@bqe.com; sales@dimarseafoods.com; sales@dkenterprises.com; sales@globalexporters.net; sales@ietglobal.com; sales@pro-bolivia.com; sales@pwseafood.com; sales@shoretodoor.com; sales@united-fisheries.co.nz; sales@vistafoods.com; sales@wrightlobster.com; salesmgt@simu.co.nz; salman@dhaka.agni.com; salmon@mint.net; salmon@norse-crown-seafood.dk; salmon@schooner.org; salqui-h-info@plaidworks.com; saltman@stavis.com; samcney@emeraldcoast.com; sameer@c2.net; sanders@inkweb.com;  textilesei@chaozhou.com; tfbayly@marcon.co.nz; tgilship@gmunro.ca; thaiccs@mozart.inet.co.th; thammerman@aol.com; thlgrp@pacific.net.sg; threshold@nisa.net; ticofish@sol.racsa.co.cr; tim@exegesis.co.uk; timpship@gmunro.ca; tims@linjk.freedom.com; tjffarms@aol.com; tkromano@email.msn.com; tkunzer@aol.com; tlspence@w3pr.com; tmarks@kendall.mdcc.edu; tmarr@downtime.com; tnrcfood@mbnet.mb.ca; tom@iu.net; tony@arrow-merco.com; top@manufacture.com.tw; topseafood@worldnet.att.net; towndock@pop3.ids.net; tpkorea@kotis.net; tpsftcc@public.sta.net.cn; tptelisr@netvision.net.il; trade@blackworld.com; trade@ch-non-food.com; trade@opportun.kc3ltd.co.uk; tradexsfds@aol.com; transdata@webworldinc.com; travel@travel.com.hk; trisport@iml-net.com.na; trueco@dhivehinet.net.mv; tscorp@bom3.vsnl.net.in; tsfi@thongsiek.com.sg; tsmith@catgraph.com; tuna@ralboray.com; tuna@seanet.com; turbos@turbosales.com; t-xanth@gmunro.ca; u.s.a.-Inoel180471@aol.com; ufi@gte.net; unibr@unitel.co.kr; unirel@pace.edu; unisee@aol.com; unitedimport@att.com; university@geographix.com; uscodex@aol.com; vacpacsf@mozcom.com; valpado@hotmail.com; vcilp@lumen.vcilp.ortg; vela@wave.co.nz; vfuks@jaguar.ir.miami.edu; vhg04@emirates.net.ae; victian@shell.tjvan.com.cn; victian@shell.tjvan.net.cn; victorray@aol.com; vietnam.order@cgtd.com; vipul@pobox.com; virginia@clearfreight.com; vishop@freemail.nl; visshop@dsv.nl; visshop@freemail.nl; vixens@ptialaska.net; vr4u@ksc8.th.com; vshlexps@hotmail.com; waag@email.msn.com; waltraut@arrowac-merco.com; wangh@mail.zlnet.co.cn; wangrap@public.ytptt.sd.cn; warcher@nafta.net; waynes@connet80.com; web@acdev.com; web@xmission.com; webhost@seafoodleader.com; webmaster@dragoncity.com.sg; webmaster@goldq.com; web-requests@www.aphis.usda.gov; wenqx@sd.cei.go.cn; westlake@globalvision.net; whigs@del2.vsnl.net.in; whm.fmii@auracom.com; wingtop@algonet.se; wiwate@cementhai.co.th; woceanus@aol.com; wolfmarine@aol.com; wolftanks@aol.com; wpwoods@aol.com; wrefhann@ihug.co.nz; wschin@ascl.com; wservice@simcoe.igs.net; wsking@ibm.net; wtcor@gdi.net; www.hunterss@sprynet.com; wsl@cerebalaw.com; www@scanvec.com; wytree@telekbird.com.cn; xcdc@xpublic.fz.fj.cn; xw@tdl-info.net; xzsawqe@emirates.net.ae; yangdong@public.jn.sd.cn; yesintl@flmarinenet.com; ylil@aol.com; young66@aol.com; ytzx@public.rzptt.sd.cn; zafir@home.com; zakat97@aol.com; John Arnold; zhangxn@hichina.com; zhwindow@pub.zhuai.gd.cn; ziplar@writeme.com; zoro@mpsnet.com.mx; zsy@pub1.fz.fj.cn; ztiec@public.hz.zj.cn; ztiec@ztiec.com; zxd@club.pages.com.cn; zxd1098@bigfoot.com; zxw@public.hz.zj.cn; bkmco@hotmail.com; callisfd@hotmail.com; shuler@computextos.com.pe; ecssfd@bellsouth.net; gamvie@pop3.concentric.net; expork12@ecua.net.ec; milton@nicnet.com.ni; itc@khi.compol.com; silvabue@totalnet.com.ar; active.83@netvision.net.il; Calembo@gnet.tn; ng@dcdmc.intnet.mu; abs@tassie.net.au; camtas@mox.com.au; freofish@icenet.com.au; demcos@ozemail.com.au; lee@sia.net.au; woodfish@pronet.com.au; sumnersf@oe.net.au; westmanp@acr.net.au; yoshida-H@syd.marubeni.co.jp; hirakitsukamoto@austrade.gov.au; lobsterdoc@aol.com; sjr@bb.rc.vix.com; sjoyce@thai.com; skip@futureone.com; cmsacv@debtel.com.mx
Subject: 	The Catch of the Week

                               
 

             The Catch of the Week
         SEAFOOD INDUSTRY INFORMATION SERVICE
 
Hello, welcome to the "NEW" newsletter, now available via e-mail  from SEA-EX.
 
As you know, Sea-Ex is an Australian company which provides a service connecting buyer to seller - DIRECT.  We are now expanding our newsletter to cover e-mail. 

This service provides you with an opportunity to promote and expose your company and products to numerous contacts in the seafood industry both in Australia and abroad, weekly.  It is a simple, yet effective way to promote yourself - Direct to your industry.  

To place your FREE classified see below.

                      THIS IS WEEK ONE (1) OF A FREE FOUR (4)  WEEK TRIAL.
We would also welcome comments you may have regarding this newsletter, and we are also open to any suggestions to improve this service.
 
1.  Uptop Fisheries Pty Ltd                AUSTRALIA                                        OPEN MARKET
Goods supplied:  Sharkfins (Wet), Shark cartiledge (frozen), Shark & mackeral fillets & trunks (frozen)
Contact Jenny Davies  uptop@iinet.net.au
 
 
2.  Adelaide Bay Seafoods Pty Ltd               AUSTRALIA                           OPEN MARKET 
Goods supplied:  Live and frozen greenlip and blacklip abalone.
Contact:  Loraine Kossmann    abs@tassie.net.au
 
3.  Cameron of Tasmania Pty Ltd                   AUSTRALIA                         OPEN MARKET               
 Goods supplied:  Live pacific oysters, frozen half shell Pacific oysters, Golden Pacific Oysters.
Contact:  Michael Cameron or Edgar Burtschner        camtas@mox.com.au
 
4.  Oakfair International                                     AUSTRALIA                         OPEN MARKET
Goods supplied:  sardines (WR & Fillets), Cod (H&G and fillets), Alaskan Pollock (H&G and Fillets), Scallops, Squid, Octopus, Sockeye Salmon, Pink Salmon, Chinook Salmon, Chum Salmon, Coho Salmon, Flounder.
Contact:  Charlie   oakfair@icenet.com.au
 
5.  Pacific Business Pty Ltd                              AUSTRALIA                        OPEN MARKET
 Goods supplied:  Representative of "Golden Emperor" canned Abalone, exporter of "Pacific" canned Abalone, Frozen, Live, Cooked Abalone.  Frozen Scallops, fish and seafood.
Contact:  Stephen Lee   lee@sia.net.au
 
6.  Wood Fisheries Pty Ltd                                AUSTRALIA                       OPEN MARKET
Goods supplied:  Stout whiting, yellow-tail scad, tuna, finfish and deepwater finfish.
Contact:  A.K. (Sandy) Wood-Meredith   woodfish@pronet.com.au
 
7.  Fremantle Fish Farms                                  AUSTRALIA                       AUSTRALIA ONLY
Goods supplied:  Sardines (WR & Fillets), Alaskan Cod (H&G and fillets) Smoked Russian Sockeye Salmon.
Contact:  Steve Wilkinson    freofish@icenet.com.au
 
8.  Demcos Seafoods Pty Ltd          AUSTRALIA                  SYDNEY     AUSTRALIA ONLY
Restaurants a speciality. Providors of Finer Seafood.   Seasonal fresh produce of TOP QUALITY.  
Inquiries, contact Con or James   demcos@ozemail.com.au 
 
9.  Moana Pacific Fisheries Ltd                   NEW ZEALAND                    OPEN MARKET
Goods supplied:  FROZEN:  Alfonsino, barracoutta, cardinal, flake, flounder, New Zealand sole, lemon sole, orange roughy, monkfish, rubyfish, scampi, snapper, gemfish, hoki fillets.  FRESH:  Bluenose, snapper, tarakihi, orange roughy, live greenlip mussels, flounders, gurnard, moonfish, john dory, groper/bass, trevally, broadbill swordfish.
Contact:  Rachel Joughin or Bruce Bird    moana@xtra.co.nz 
 
10.  Great White Holdings Pty Ltd                 AUSTRALIA                       OPEN MARKET
Goods supplied:  Live mud crabs, live pippies, live Pacific oysters.
Contact Nick or Stan    mudcrabs@zed.org 
 
11.  Global Seafood Fisheries                        AUSTRALIA                       OPEN MARKET
 
Goods supplied:  Coral trout (frozen raw), Tropical lobster tails, mullet roe, scallop meat - roe off.  Fresh fish.
                          Frozen Prawns:  Banana, Endeavour, King and Tiger.
Contact:  Neal Harris    glosea@bigpond.com
 
12.  Sumner Seafood Export Australia                                                    OPEN MARKET
Goods supplied:  LIVE coral trout, LIVE Lobster.  LIVE spanner and mud crabs.  Frozen and Chilled reef fish and estuary fish and frozen Queensland scallops.
Contact:   David Hoac     sumnersf@oe.net.au 
 
13.  P & E Foods Inc               Hawaii USA                                               OPEN MARKET
Goods Supplied:  Frozen seafood, pork, meat, poultry.  Fish, shellfish, lobster, crab.
Contact:  Stephen S.C.Lee        Telephone:  + 1 808 839 9094           Fax:  + 1 808 833 5182
 
14.  Pacific Marine Farms 1996 Ltd          NEW ZEALAND                 OPEN MARKET
Goods supplied:  1/2 shell oysters - chilled and frozen
Contact:  Vince Syddall           Telephone:  + 64 7 866 8564             Fax:  + 64 7 866 8753 
 
15.  Clyde River Oyster Company           AUSTRALIA                        AUSTRALIA ONLY
Goods supplied:  Clyde River (Australia) Oysters.
Contact:    Mr Bill Suter  suters@acr.net.au         or       Mr Paul Westman     westmanp@acr.net.au 

 
                              --------------------------oooOOOooo-------------------------------

Above are just some of our suppliers listed in our Directories of Seafood Suppliers.  For more information, see our website at http://www.big.net.au/~seaex.   When contacting these people, be sure to mention SEA-EX!!!

If you would like any further information regarding the above companies, please e-mail us your enquiry to seaex@big.net.au
 LIST YOUR "CLASSIFIED"  HERE
Here is a place to list your "classifieds" regarding your industry.  Buy, sell, offer, wanted, promote etc.
To list a classified please click on : seaex@big.net.au 
Remember to include your contact details, so that people can contact you!

To stop receiving this newsletter,  please email us at seaex@big.net.au and in the subject line please put "No News to:  (your e-mail address)"
 
 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER YOUR FREE TRIAL, IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO CONTINUE RECEIVING THIS SERVICE COSTS WILL BE AS FOLLOWS:

1 MONTH SUBSCRIPTION     ......................         AUD$30.00
3 MONTH SUBSCRIPTION     .....................                 AUD$75.00 
6 MONTH SUBSCRIPTION     ......................         AUD$140.00 
12 MONTH SUBSCRIPTION   ......................                AUD$250.00 
 
PAYMENT VIA CHECK, MONEY ORDER, BANKCARD, MASTERCARD OR VISA.
Please e-mail with a "request for Subscription Form" in the subject header, and provide your fax or postal details. 
 
Disclaimer
All classifieds are submitted by individual companies.  While every care has been taken in compiling this newletter, Sea-Ex will not be held responsible for any error or omissions.  The advertising in this newsletter is the sole responsibility of the companies who place the classifieds and Sea-Ex will not be held liable in any way for any loss or injury whatsoever, in business dealings with these companies. 
 

 

<><><>





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: CTIA Daily News 
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 11:48:36 -0700 (PDT)
To: CTIA Daily News 
Subject: CTIA Daily News from WOW-COM - August 5, 1998
Message-ID: <199808051819.NAA05967@mailstrom.revnet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




==========================================
Welcome to today's edition of the CTIA Daily News
from WOW-COM.  Please click on the icon / attachment
for the most important news in wireless communications today.

*** Please Note: We are pleased to provide a text-only 
version of the CTIA Daily News from WOW-COM.
The text only version is contained in this e-mail. ***

Get the latest information on virtually all aspects 
of Number Portability.

Attend the CTIA-sponsored Number Portability Forum 
on August 18 in Washington, D.C.

For further information and registration, please contact 
Carolyn Williamson at 202-736-3224 or e-mail:
Cwilliamson@ctia.org
===========================================

 

===========================================
Text-Only Version of today's news sponsored by Nokia
===========================================

CTIA Daily News from WOW-COM - August 5, 1998

Wireless Industry, Local Governments Announce Plan to Resolve Antenna Siting Disputes -- Three wireless industry trade associations, along with an advisory group representing local governments, have agreed to a speedy dispute-resolution process that, they hope, will resolve disagreements that arise when local governments impose moratoriums on construction of new antenna sites.
http://www.wow-com.com/results/professional/news/frameindex.cfm?articleid=3085
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPlate/1998-08/05/130l-080598-idx.html


House Commerce Committee Approves Wireless 911 Legislation -- The purpose of the legislation approved by the Committee is "to encourage and facilitate the prompt deployment throughout the United States of a seamless, ubiquitous, and reliable end-to-end infrastructure for communications, including wireless communications, to meet the Nation's public safety and other communications needs."
http://www.wow-com.com/results/professional/news/frameindex.cfm?articleid=3086


Attorney General Asks Congress Not to Extend CALEA Compliance Date -- The U.S. Attorney General stated that moving the compliance date "two full years would permit substantially more telephone equipment to be designed and deployed without regard for the public safety concerns that CALEA was designed to protect." The industry argues that an extension is necessary.
http://www.wow-com.com/results/professional/news/frameindex.cfm?articleid=3087


Motorola Offers Investment Analysts Few Specifics on Future Performance -- In an August 4 meeting with financial analysts, Motorola executives offered few concrete numbers or projections, but said that the digital phone business was a huge priority.
http://www.techserver.com/newsroom/ntn/info/080598/info22_22832_noframes.html
http://chicagotribune.com/business/businessnews/article/0,1051,ART-12809,00.html


Foes Hammer Universal Service E-Rate at Congressional Hearing -- Powerful members of Congress, long distance companies, consumer advocates, and even FCC commissioner Harold Furchtgott-Roth argue that the e-rate is an unfair tax that the FCC created without proper authority.
http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,24923,00.html?owv
http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,24924,00.html?owv


Powertel Surpasses 200,000 Wireless PCS Subscribers -- The new wireless carrier says its now has the largest contiguous digital wireless coverage area in the southeast.
http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/980805/powertel_1.html


Nextel Expected to Announce Rural Partnership Pact -- Nextel has said the partnership would cover about 15 percent of the U.S. population. It would also allow it to broaden its geographic coverage into rural areas faster than it would be able to do on its own.
http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980804/nextel_s_r_1.html


WIRELESS SECURITY Workshop & Expo Focuses on New Threats to Wireless Systems -- The conference will focus on a broader range of wireless security issues, including network vulnerability, authentication deployment, subscription fraud and international roaming fraud.
http://www.wow-com.com/results/professional/news/frameindex.cfm?articleid=3091


First Wireless Phone with Color Screen Now Available from Omnipoint -- Omnipoint Communications now offers the Siemens S12 GSM handset, which, the company says, is the world's first wireless phone with a three-color (red, blue and green), five-line display.
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/980805/nj_omnipoi_1.html


China's Mobile Phone User Population Tops 18 Million -- It took a decade for mobile phone users to reach 18 million compared with 100 years for the country to have 10 million private telephones, the Xinhua news agency said.
http://biz.yahoo.com/finance/980803/china_s_mo_1.html


COMSAT Corporation Sues Three Former Employees -- The lawsuit, against three former employees of COMSAT Mobile Communications, alleges the former employees misappropriated confidential, sensitive and proprietary business information, and purposefully and systematically destroyed computer files prior to resigning from COMSAT.
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/980804/md_comsat__1.html





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 13:28:42 -0700 (PDT)
To: george breznay 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Wednesday 8/5/98 1:50 PM

George B. Breznay, Director
Office of Hearings and Appeals
Department of Energy
Washington, DC 20585

Dear Director Breznay:

Purpose of this letter is to ask you to properly process a Freedom of
Information Act
(FOIA) appeal.

I attach a copy of my Tuesday February 17, 1999 15:11 FOIA. letter to
Elva Barfield.

Albuquerque  Journal w 8/5/98 reports

  FBI Director Again Calls for Fund-Raising Probe

  By Kevin Galvin
  The Associated Press

  WASHINGTON - The FBI director told lawmakers Tuesday an independent
  counsel should be named to investigate Democratic fund raising in
  part because President Clinton and Vice President Al Gore are
  under scrutiny. ...

June 11, 1998 I received a letter from Tomas O. Mann,  Deputy Director,
Office of Hearings
Hearing and Appeals.

Mann wrote

  It is unclear from your correspondence whether you are in fact
appealing Ms. Barfield's March 30
  determination at this time.  If you wish to appeal that determination,
please inform this Office 
  as soon as possible by stating your intention in writing, either by
mail to George B. Breznay,     Director, Office Office of Hearings and
Appeals, U.S. Department of Energy, Washington,  D.C.     20585-0107, or
by e-mail to George.Breznay@hq.doe.gov.

I comply with Mann's request.

Since the contents of the documents sought in my FOIA may shed light on
possible wrongdoing by
VP Al Gore, I ask that you process this appeal within the time limits
specified by law.

  An agency is required to make a decision on an appeal
  within 20 days (excluding Saturdays, Sundays, and legal
  holidays). It is possible for an agency to extend the time
  limits by an additional 10 days.

Sincerely,



William H. Payne
13015 Calle de Sandias NE
Albuquerque, NM 87111

http://www.us.net/softwar/


Tuesday February 17, 1999 15:11

e-mail and mail

Ms. Elva Barfield
Freedom of Information Office
U. S. Department of Energy
Albuquerque Operations Office/OIEA
POB 5400
Albuquerque, NM 87185-5400
EBARFIELD@DOEAL.GOV

Dear Ms. Barfield:

VP Al Gore is in the crypto business.

  Information SuperSpyWay 
  Al Gore Approved
  Encryption for China
  in Return for
  Campaign Donations
  by Charles R. Smith

Portions of the above document posted on Internet at 
http://www.us.net/softwar/ and  http://www.aci.net/kalliste/ 
states

1.	Gore charged with encryption policy according to PDD-5 and 
        PRD-27 on April 16, 1993. 

2.	Government officials represent themselves on Al Gore's behalf for 
	RSA patent purchase negotiations in Feb. 1994. 
3.	RSA chairman Bidzos meets with Chinese officials at the same 
        time as Ron Brown in Oct. 1995. 

4.	RSA Chairman Bidzos enters into merger negotiations with Security 
	Dynamics, a company backed by Sanford Robertson, in Nov. 1995. 

5.	VP Gore calls Sanford Robertson from the White House for a 
        donation in Nov. 1995. 

6.	Robertson delivers $100,000 donation ($80,000 soft - $20,000 
	directly into the Clinton/Gore campaign) in Jan. 1996. 
7.	RSA signs deal with China in Feb. 1996. The administration 
	previously prosecuted similar deals but this time does nothing. 
8.	Justice Dept. approves RSA merger with Security Dynamics in 
	April 1996 for $280 million dollars, netting Sanford Robertson's 
	company a cool $2 million just to write the deal. 

In 1991 I was in involved with Sandia National Laboratories
Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty seismic data authenticator.

At that time Sandia director Tommy A Sellers had assumed 
responsibility for directorship from Robert Clem.

Sandia supervisor Tom Wright replaced my supervisor, John Holovka, 
who was the supervisor for the CTBT seismic data authenticator.

Wright brought in Ph.D. Steven Goldsmith to supervise me.

Sellars, Wright, and Goldsmith were new to crypto-type projects.

Much of this is documented at http://www.jya.com/whp021598.htm.

This is evidenced by Sellar's attached SEP 24 1991 memorandum,
which Goldsmith help author, addressed to Dr James J Hearn at 
the National Security Agency.

The SEP 24 memorandum contained a number of technical errors.

I corrected these errors in my attached December 20, 1991 memorandum.

Department of Energy and it predecessors have a well-documented
history of not requiring technical expertise for pursuit of interests.

Stewart Udall, The Myths of August, writes,

    Any cover-up must be implemented and enforced by designated
  agents, and one man emerged in 1953 as the quarterback of the 
  AEC's damage-control effort.  His name was Gordon Dunning.
  Although the personnel charts of the 1950s list him as a low-level 
  "rad-safe" official in the Division of Biology and Medicine,           
  documents demonstrate that he was clothed with authority to    
  manage and suppress information about the radiation released
  by the testing of nuclear weapons. ...

About the time Sellers and Sandia Ombudsman gave me a directed
transfer to break electronic locks for the FBI/ERF [engineering
research facility], Goldsmith and Wright, certainly with the approval
of Sellers, placed a contract with RSA Inc [http://www.rsa.com/], 
I was told.

Ms Barfield, we think the American public needs to know more about
RSA's work with Sandia National Laboratories.

Therefore, Under the provision of the Freedom of Information Act, 
5 USC 552, I am requesting access to: 

  1 ALL purchase requisitions, including any attached statement of
    work, issued by Sandia National Laboratories, Los Alamos     
    National Laboratories, or DOE/ALOO between January 1, 1991
    and February 17, 1998 to RSA Inc.

  2  Copies of all invoices from RSA Inc received by Sandia National   
     Laboratories, Los Alamos National Laboratories, or DOE/ALOO 
     between January 1, 1991  and February 17, 1998

If there are any fees for searching for, or copying, the records 
I have requested, please inform me before you fill the request.

As you know, the Act permits you to reduce or waive the fees 
when the release of the information is considered as "primarily 
benefiting the public."  I believe that this requests fits that 
category and I therefore ask that you waive any fees.

Your office agreed to waive fees before.  This request is surely 
of "public interest."

December 13, 1994 DOE/AL FOIA officer Gwen Schreiner waived fees
for the reason,

        "We have considered your request and have determined that
        release of the requested records is in the public interest,
        that disclosure of this information is likely to contribute
        significantly to public understanding of the operations or
        activities of the government, that you or the organization
        you represent have little or no commercial interest in the
        material contained in the records, that you or the
        organization you represent have the qualifications and
        ability to use and disseminate the information, and that the
        records are not currently in the public domain.  A waiver of
        fees is therefore granted."

This waiver of fees was, undoubtedly, issued as a result of former
Energy Secretary Hazel O'Leary's Openness initiative.

Heart of America paid my way to hear Secretary O'Leary's celebrated
whistleblower speech.

If all or any part of this request is denied, please cite the 
specific exemption(s) which you think justifies your refusal to 
release the information and inform me of your agency's 
administrative appeal procedures available to me under the law.

I would appreciate your handling this request as quickly as 
possible, and I look forward to hearing from you within 20 
working days, as the law stipulates.

Sincerely,                         
                                   


William Payne
13015 Calle de Sandias
Albuquerque, NM 87111



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Bernardo B. Terrado" 
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 01:05:44 -0700 (PDT)
To: Anonymous 
Subject: encryption.....
In-Reply-To: <199808050520.HAA22850@replay.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


What types of data can we encrypt?
   


















===============================================================================
You give the words  you have spoken,
   it is not lended and are not taken back.
It is like what The Corrs sung "...you're forgiven not forgotten...."

bbt@mudspring.uplb.edu.ph
bbt@peak-two.uplb.edu.ph
metaphone@altavista.net





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "LOUISE E LIBERATORE" 
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 14:17:59 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: iz it
Message-ID: <199808052115.RAA41932@pimout1-int.prodigy.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


What R dezz    Algorithms 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: rhobbs@wvu.edu
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 13:32:56 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: GATT
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980805163248.006988ec@wvu.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


How about e-mailing me a GATT summary for my MBA paper!!!!!




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 16:55:56 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: Re: iz it
In-Reply-To: <199808052115.RAA41932@pimout1-int.prodigy.net>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 9:16 AM -0700 8/5/98, LOUISE E LIBERATORE, a true Prodigy,  wrote:
>What R dezz    Algorithms

Dezz algrims iz de 'bonics word (word!) foe de Man's main code.

Word.

--Rap Master Tim





"The tree of liberty must be watered periodically with the blood of
tyrants...."
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist              | black markets, collapse of governments.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Alex de Joode 
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 07:56:15 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: SecDrv and Win95
Message-ID: <199808051456.QAA15760@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


In article <199808050819.KAA06317@replay.com> you wrote:

: I'm looking for a good HD encryptor.  The best one seems to be secdrv,
:  Is this compatoble with win95? I'm asking because I know secdrv uses
: tsr programs and drivers, but I am not familiar enough with win 95 to
: be sure they will work together.  In win programming you don't use
: interrupts and I'm sure that the drivers try to capture interupts. it
: could still work if win95 calls int's to do it's work though.  Any info?


Checkout:
ftp://ftp.replay.com/pub/crypto/disk/{SdWin32Src.zip,SdDriveSrc.zip}

-aj-




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 09:14:30 -0700 (PDT)
To: "cypherpunks" 
Subject: Welcome to the fishroute list.
Message-ID: <199808051614.JAA27813@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



This email message gives you important information about using
this list - please save it for future reference.


Sending mail to the list
========================

To send a message to all fishroute list members, use a message
with the following form (the email address is case insensitive):

 --------------------------------------------------------------
       From: Brian Dorricott 
         To: fishroute@fishroute.com
    Subject: PROBLEM WITH LOADING PRODUCT

    Can anybody help me unzip my file?
 --------------------------------------------------------------


Leaving the list
================

To stop receiving messages from fishroute you will need to send
a message to the list manager called "fishlist@fishroute.com" with
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 --------------------------------------------------------------
       From: Brian Dorricott 
         To: fishlist@fishroute.com
    Subject: 

    leave fishroute
 --------------------------------------------------------------

If you receive a message saying you are not a member but you are still
getting messages, you could be subscribed as a different email address.
In one of the errant messages, check for the "X-ListMember:" clause in
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which means that this message was from the list called "fishroute"
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 --------------------------------------------------------------
       From: Brian Dorricott 
         To: fishlist@fishroute.com
    Subject: 

    leave fishroute brian@abc.co.uk
 --------------------------------------------------------------


Requesting digests
==================

Instead of getting each message from the list seperately, you may ask
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 --------------------------------------------------------------
       From: Brian Dorricott 
         To: fishlist@fishroute.com
    Subject: 

    digest fishroute
 --------------------------------------------------------------

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24-hours you will receive a single email message with a contents
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Requesting Files
================

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 --------------------------------------------------------------
       From: Brian Dorricott 
         To: fishlist@fishroute.com
    Subject: 

    dir fishroute
 --------------------------------------------------------------

In return, you will get two messages.  One is a transaction
report (telling you the command was completed) and the second will be
titled "Directory for fishroute" and would have a contents like:

 --------------------------------------------------------------
    Directory for the list fishroute

      1         INML301C.ZIP  2535788 bytes
      2         INML302D.ZIP  2671264 bytes

    Directory for fishroute has 2 entries.
 --------------------------------------------------------------

Now you know the names of the files, you can request one to be sent
to you using the GET command.  Taking the example of INML301C.ZIP,
we could use the command:

 --------------------------------------------------------------
       From: Brian Dorricott 
         To: fishlist@fishroute.com
    Subject: 

    get fishroute inml301c.zip
 --------------------------------------------------------------

Again, you will get two messages - the transaction report and a
message containing the MIME encoded file (or the file if it is a text
file).


Where to report problems
========================

Should you still have any problems or questions, please email
root@fishroute.com who will be happy to help.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: attila 
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 11:47:02 -0700 (PDT)
To: John Young 
Subject: Re: Jim Bell Latest
In-Reply-To: <199808051340.JAA25381@camel14.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Wed, 5 Aug 1998, John Young reported

>Excerpt from USA v. Jim Bell court docket:
>
    lots of deletions.

>Docket as of August 5, 1998 3:10 am               Pages 7-8
>
>                 Bell.  Court rules this hrg will proceed on the violations
>                 charges only, D' concerns should be addressed in other
>                 action.  Court inquires of cnsl if psychological evaluation
>                 is required, D' cnsl adv the cour that D' does not feel this
>                 hrg should proc because of his prior stated concerns of the
>                 Gov't spying and conspiracy against him. D' request add'l
>                 time to prep.  
>
    IM!SHO, Jim is committing the ultimate faux pas in federal court --the
    issue of 'conspiracy' as it implies the judge is part of the conspiracy.
    of course, I dont consider the issues as conspiracy anyway --they are
    nothing more than a government abusing its powers and the fact the
    citizens have abrogated their own rights by failing to make government
    accountable


>		  RECESS. D' cnsl adv the Court that D' not
>                 prep to proc today, D' requests month continuance, D' cnsl
>                 disagrees w/client's strategy. D' cnsl adv the Court mental
>                 health eval may be approp. 
>
    the wonders of a public defender...  Kaczinski's lawyer pulled the same
    abuse of privilege (except again IM!SHO, TZ outsmarted them all as even
    in his apparent paranoia driven state, his powers of logic were stil
    present --and there is reason to doubt his implied state of insanity
    in so much as his notebooks showed bitterness and a bloodthirsty desire
    for violent retribution.

    OTH, Bell definetly lacks sophistication, or a reasonable sense of
    logic; if there is a mental illness issue, it is not the place of Bell's
    attorney to overrule his client's wishes --Bell is entitled to be the
    fool....

    but even worse, sliding into the federal prison systems psychiatric t
    evaluation program is a one way ticket --all bets are off, and all
    sentence termination dates are off-- release is at the whim of the
    government. if, for instance, Jim is sent to Springfield (MO) or 
    Rochester (MN), the cell blocks are essential solitary confinement 
    rows --if you werent nuts when you arrived, you are or will be...

    Jim's attorney may have been well meaning by asking for help of Jim,
    but he sure as hell did not do him any favours.

>		  Gov't objs. Court adv parties
>                 that mental health eval will be ordered. 


>                 D' adv the Court he
>                 wants investigation of Gov't actions. 
>
    still whipping a dead horse.  Jim's AP essays were not an evidence
    of insanity- a little asinine, but certainly not insane rantings.
    many members of the list can say: "there but for the grace of (insert
    your favourite whatever), go I."


>                 Court adv D' mental
>                 health eval ordered.  
>
    exactly to form...


>		  Court orders Gov't to prep approp
>                 order, iss of Mr. Avenia cont as cnsl will be addr. D'
>                 remanded pending eval. (car) 
>
    this is one of the travesties of the Public Defender system; Jim will
    be evaLuated only by the US Prison system (which has a vested interest
    in maintain the numbers (despite the current 24% overcrowding figure I
    saw quoted the other day).

    there will be no report actually representing Jim's or his families
    interests.  there will be no period when an outside investigator can
    evaluate Jim when he can be absolutely sure the government has not
    loaded him with Thorazine 

    an undiseased mind looking out through the haze of Thorazine must be
    terrorizing; the victim clawing at the walls of the cranium --or so
    it was described to me by my Tourettes' Syndrome victim son who was
    given same in an acute facility  --I had been in hospital with 
    bronchial infections and did not see him until two weeks later at
    the resident school I arranged-- absolutely terrifying; the Haldol
    was discontinued immediately; absolutely unbelievable what it did

    prisons and other institutions love Thorazine class drugs for 
    troublemakers --instant passivity, and in Jim's case, an obvious
    means of declaring him criminally insane which is a life sentence
    in the federal system, one way or another.

    I wish Jim luck, he needs it; I dont agree with his "politics", but
    I also do agree with their punishment of his inadequacies and childish
    pranks.


> 		  [Entry date 08/03/98]
>                 [Edit date 08/03/98]
>
>8/3/98   --      LODGED ORDER directing commitment of D' to submit to a
>                 competency exam (car) [Entry date 08/04/98]
>

	attila out...


_________________________________________________________________ attila__

    To be a ruler of men, you need at least 12 inches....





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@nsm.htp.org
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 12:48:13 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: SecDrv and Win95
In-Reply-To: <98Aug5.115014cdt.36865-1@gateway.mgmtscience.com>
Message-ID: <19980805194724.13516.qmail@nsm.htp.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


>>>>> Ian F Silver  writes:

  > I'm looking at CFS (Cryptographic File System) for when I make the
  > jump away from Microsoft towards S.u.S.E. Linux 5.2.

Version 1.1.2 works quite well, but I'd really like to see someone
build it into the kernel.  (Not me, alas: I'm up to my ears in other
GPL applications development, and you really don't want to let me near
an OS kernel...)





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "fishlist@fishroute.com" 
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 11:24:49 -0700 (PDT)
To: "cypherpunks@toad.com>
Subject: List Processor Results.
Message-ID: <199808051824.LAA28730@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


 1: leave fishroute cypherpunks@toad.com
    Removed from fishroute.


Completed processing request at Wed, 5 Aug 1998 20:29:25 +0200





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From:  (fishroute)
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 11:26:29 -0700 (PDT)
To: "cypherpunks@toad.com>
Subject: Leaving the fishroute list.
Message-ID: <199808051824.LAA28729@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Thank you for your participation in this list.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: mgraffam@mhv.net
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 18:23:29 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Noise source processing
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hello all..

After a little bit of work I have put together a white noise source 
(hacked FM reciever, heavily shielded to reduce local EMR bias) and
have it jacked into a mic port on one of my machines. I would like
to develop of bit of code (oh, horror :) to take bits from the sound
card, and bits from /dev/random, and mix them together to get a
random number stream.

The noise coming off of the sound card is more beige than white though..

Does anyone know of any papers, articles or whatever on good techniques to
remove bias from the audio source? 

My initial thoughts are along the lines of just hashing everything, but
this will be slow, and I'd like to see what other ideas are out there.

Michael J. Graffam (mgraffam@mhv.net)
http://www.mhv.net/~mgraffam -- Philosophy, Religion, Computers, Crypto, etc
"Let your life be a counter-friction to stop the machine."
			Henry David Thoreau "Civil Disobedience"





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Alan Olsen 
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 21:30:47 -0700 (PDT)
To: Maurice Valmont 
Subject: Re: Mysterious taglines
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980805213018.03c1dea0@clueserver.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 11:54 PM 8/5/98 -0400, Maurice Valmont wrote:
>
>At 04:55 PM 8/5/98 -0700, Tim May  wrote in his .sig:
>
>>"The tree of liberty must be watered periodically with the blood of
>>tyrants...."
>
>I suspect this is unlikely to happen until the oppressed realize that the
>tree 
>of liberty needs also be watered with the blood of patriots.

It also needs to be fertilized with the bullshit of propaganda and sprayed
with the insecticide of secrecy.

>>Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
>>anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
>>knowledge, reputations, information markets,
>>black markets, collapse of governments.
>
>I'm curious: What exactly is "zero knowledge"?

It is a protocol used by certain political and religious orders.  It can be
boiled down to "What I don't know, can't hurt me.".

---
|      Bill Clinton - Bringing back the Sixties one Nixon at a time!     |
|"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmermann unites all| Disclaimer:         |
| mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!"  | Ignore the man      |
|                                                  | behind the keyboard.|
|         http://www.ctrl-alt-del.com/~alan/       |alan@ctrl-alt-del.com|




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Paul Johnson 
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 21:03:10 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Noise source processing
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199808060403.XAA32439@yeti.host4u.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 09:12 PM 8/5/98 -0400, mgraffam@mhv.net wrote:
...
>After a little bit of work I have put together a white noise source 
>(hacked FM reciever, heavily shielded to reduce local EMR bias) and
>have it jacked into a mic port on one of my machines. I would like
>to develop of bit of code (oh, horror :) to take bits from the sound
>card, and bits from /dev/random, and mix them together to get a
>random number stream.
>
>The noise coming off of the sound card is more beige than white though..
>
>Does anyone know of any papers, articles or whatever on good techniques to
>remove bias from the audio source? 
...
If I were doing it, I would probably feed the raw bytes into a stream
cipher with feedback, like Sapphire II, and then select every nth byte from
the output stream (just to match the output bit rate to the estimated
actual entropy in a conservative fashion and improve the effective
avalanche performance of that particular algorithm). This would be faster
than a hash like SHA-1. Indeed, you could just use a good mixer, like a CRC
or non-cryptographic hash to whiten the noise if speed is an issue. As long
as you restrict the output bit rate to less than the actual estimated
entropy of the source, you should be alright, provided that your noise
source is as random as you think it is.

Then again, the truly paranoid may beg to differ.




_______

Michael Paul Johnson                   
mpj@ebible.org    http://ebible.org    http://cryptography.org
PO BOX 1151, Longmont CO 80502-1151, USA Jesus Christ is Lord!




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Wazoo Remailer 
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 15:36:43 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: change in anonymizer log policy
Message-ID: <199808052236.WAA04031@earth.wazoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Looks like Anonymizer's changed their logging policy.
>From their FAQ:

Does the Anonymizer keep logs on who I am and the sites I
visit? How long do you keep logs? Will you release the
information? 

The Anonymizer logs only a hash of your IP number (machine
address). We cannot determine your IP number from these logs,
however, this enables us to have logs to study in order to increase
performance, and as a deterent to prevent abusive use of the
Anonymizer for purposes such as e-mail spamming, harassment, and so
on. If we didn't, many people would use it for these purposes, and
the usability of the service would deteriorate as a result.
Anonymizer tools are not a shroud for those who wish to engage in
illegal and unscrupulous activities. However, due to high usage, it
is impossible for us to keep logs for very long, and we cannot
maintain archives. 

See our user agreement for more details. 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Maurice Valmont 
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 20:54:41 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Mysterious taglines
In-Reply-To: <199808052115.RAA41932@pimout1-int.prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980805235420.0072fa34@mail.fundi.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 04:55 PM 8/5/98 -0700, Tim May  wrote in his .sig:

>"The tree of liberty must be watered periodically with the blood of
>tyrants...."

I suspect this is unlikely to happen until the oppressed realize that the
tree 
of liberty needs also be watered with the blood of patriots.

>Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
>anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
>knowledge, reputations, information markets,
>black markets, collapse of governments.

I'm curious: What exactly is "zero knowledge"?





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Doris 
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 22:12:38 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Mysterious taglines
In-Reply-To: <199808052115.RAA41932@pimout1-int.prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <35C93B5F.CE468C1D@idt.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Maurice Valmont wrote:
> 
> At 04:55 PM 8/5/98 -0700, Tim May  wrote in his .sig:
> 
> >"The tree of liberty must be watered periodically with the blood of
> >tyrants...."
> 
> I suspect this is unlikely to happen until the oppressed realize that the
> tree
> of liberty needs also be watered with the blood of patriots.
> 
> >Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
> >anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
> >knowledge, reputations, information markets,
> >black markets, collapse of governments.

Aaaaah, a little jeopardy anyone?

da da da da
da da da da
da da da daDa!
da da da da

da da da da
da da da da
da da da daDa!
da da da da

da da da da
da da da da
da da da daDa!
da da da da

"Partnerships" for $100...
"What are the residual fX of ALL non prescription 
(that means recreational and damned fun if you went to
Woodstock or Monterey for the left coast..) drugs?"


> 
> I'm curious: What exactly is "zero knowledge"?

correct! 


"Central Intelligence Agency for $400!"

Duh?

Doris
http://idt.net/~dorisaw

Is there any way to get 2-bit site certicates to all these
darn websites? I wanna see my damn lock closed, even when
I browse my own damned site! hehe




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: wcts@globalvisionexpo.com
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 23:37:11 -0700 (PDT)
To: wcts@globalvisionexpo.com
Subject: Follow-up Letter
Message-ID: <199808060637.XAA00424@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


From:  Charles H. Borden
President, GlobalVision
Sarasota, Florida

Please kindly direct to the Sales and Marketing Decision Maker

Please accept this important reminder as follow up to my letter of last week about GlobalVision's potential effective marketing of your firm on our upcoming world tour.  If you will recall, we promote "global-minded" companies at our exclusive overseas 'Direct from the USA' catalog expos.  Once you've registered, we will invite key overseas distributors, joint-venture partners, government buyers & licensees in your industry.  Remember, you stay home while we do the legwork.  We have space available for Mexico, Brazil, Argentina, Venezuela, Australia, Canada, Singapore, S. Africa, Chile & Colombia.  Plus we have World Catalog Trade Shows in Europe and Japan.  These special events are joint ventures with World Trade Centers Association.

Fees range from just $375-$695 per expo with a money back guarantee.  If you are considering doing business in any or all of the above markets please respond by E-mail today.  Simply hit your reply button and send us a short note.  Please be sure to include your NAME, COMPANY, AREA CODE and PHONE NUMBER.  Susan Khrystal, our V.P., will contact you by PHONE during business hours.

If you have received this message in error, please accept our apology.  If you wish to be excluded from future mailings, simply press your reply button and send us the word "remove" in the subject line.

Sincerely,

Charles Borden
President, GlobalVision







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Brown, R Ken" 
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 03:44:52 -0700 (PDT)
To: Anonymous 
Subject: RE: compression vs encryption
Message-ID: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F8317@MSX11002>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


> Bernardo B. Terrado[SMTP:bbt@mudspring.uplb.edu.ph]  seemed to write:
> 
> What's the difference between compression and encryption?

Eh?   Encryption means keeping things secret. Compression is keeping
them small.  Not the same thing at all.  OK, they might use some of the
same tools - but you can use a screwdriver to clean your nails.

> Correct me if I'm wrong,  in compression we lose something, like in 
> image compression and audio compression,  but in encryption, we don't.


Be corrected. You are wrong. There are ways of compressing that don't
lose anything (like PKzip that you might have heard of...). There  are
ways of encrypting that don't compress. (in fact you might not want
totally efficient compression in encryption because that might give an
eavesdropper clues as to the real length of the plaintext which could be
useful to them)

> > One sure protection againts evil hackers is encryption (?),
> but what if that evil hacker deletes the ciphertext file and the
> plain  text file (that is assuming the evil hacker just deletes 
> every file he wants to delete).

I go to the backup, that's what. If I care enough about a file to
encrypt it I care enough about it to back it up. Your hacker is doing
what they call a "denial of service" attack. Encrypting your files
doesn't make any difference is someone deletes them. You need different
defences against different kinds of attack.

Or was all this some sort of troll...

















> ======================================================================
> =========
> You give the words  you have spoken,
>    it is not lended and are not taken back.
> It is like what The Corrs sung "...you're forgiven not forgotten...."
> 
> bbt@mudspring.uplb.edu.ph
> bbt@peak-two.uplb.edu.ph
> metaphone@altavista.net
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: jim@mentat.com (Jim Gillogly)
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 06:03:18 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: text analysis
Message-ID: <9808061301.AA27007@mentat.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


CyberPsychotic writes:
>  So I was playing with some crypto-analysis algorythms, and some steps of
> them involve such thing as finding out the frequency of some character or
> set of characters. So I wonder what would be the optimal (speed, resources
> etc)way of coding this. While playing with single character frequency, I
> guess the best way would be having unsigned int 256 elements array (I
> refer to C coding) and each time, I find certain character, i just
> increase the element of the array with this char offset. This seems very
> neat to me (except the thing that some chars could be never found in
> text). Anyways, when things come to 2 characters set, i have to get 1024
> character set, and so on, which looks quite unreasonable to me to allocate
> memory for elements, which probably will be never found in text... I was
> thinking of other solution and came to two way connected lists (correct
> term?)  things, i.e. : i have some structure like: 

The term is "linked list".  If you want to collect all the arbitrarily
long repeats you may have to resign yourself to a two-pass algorithm.
For small cryptograms like the ones I usually deal with, it's
sufficient to use an N^2 algorithm, looking at each starting point and
each possible offset to see whether a string of at least k characters
is duplicated at that offset.  For a longer file, off the top of my
head, you might start with a set of pointers for where each possible
digraph starts; you can use a linked list, storing all the starting
locations for each digraph (a two-dimensional array of pointers, total
size 64K).  On your second pass you can do an N^2 search within those
reduced sets to see which repeated digraphs can be extended.  It will
help a lot if your target ciphertext fits in memory.  I make no claim
that this is optimal.

	Jim Gillogly




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 07:31:04 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Noise source processing
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980806073033.007cf540@m7.sprynet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 09:12 PM 8/5/98 -0400, mgraffam@mhv.net wrote:
>Hello all..
>
>After a little bit of work I have put together a white noise source 
>(hacked FM reciever, heavily shielded to reduce local EMR bias) and
>have it jacked into a mic port on one of my machines. I would like
>to develop of bit of code (oh, horror :) to take bits from the sound
>card, and bits from /dev/random, and mix them together to get a
>random number stream.
>
>The noise coming off of the sound card is more beige than white though..
>
>Does anyone know of any papers, articles or whatever on good techniques to
>remove bias from the audio source? 

Let me save you the trouble.  First, RFC 1750 gives some background
including the info-theory behind bit 'distillation'.

I have digitized FM radio hiss using a $10 transistor radio feeding
into the LINE in of my soundcard.  The spectrum looks poisson
with prominant, periodically spaced noise spikes.  It does not pass Diehard.

But if you take the PARITY of 8 bits to get one bit, then assemble bytes
out of these bits, the results pass Diehard.  

This works with 44Khz, 16 bit sampling, with full-volume hiss feeding the
soundcard.
I have yet to try this with a video adc sampling snow.

1. There are some nice spectrogramming shareware programs out there.
2. Diehard is invaluable.
3. Language is so vague.  Don't export this filter:


/*
Alemb.c
Alembic bit distiller
Takes 8 bytes, computes the parity of each, composes a byte from the bits.

2 Aug Ported from Alembic.java which I had prototyped earlier
3 Aug modified to be faster
*/

#include 
/* return parity of byte input */
int parity(int c)
{
	int i,p=0;
	for (i=0; i<8; i++) {
		p ^= c & 1;
		c >>= 1;
		}
	return p;
}



main(int argc, char **argv) {
	int c=0, p, n, i;
	int count=0, accum=0;
	int ones=0, zeroes=0;
	unsigned char parlut[256];
	unsigned char buff[8];
	FILE *fptr, *of;
	char *infname="test.wav";
	char *outfname="test.bin";
	int hist[256], max;

	if (argc>1) infname=argv[1];
	if (argc>2) outfname=argv[2];

    fprintf(stderr,"Alembic C 4 in=%s out=%s\n", infname, outfname);


	fptr = fopen(infname,  "rb");
       of   = fopen(outfname, "wb");

 	for (p=0; p<256; p++) { parlut[p]=parity(p); /*  initialize parity table */
							hist[p]=0;	}

	n=8;
	while (n==8) {

		n=fread(buff, 1,8, fptr);
		count += n;

		if (n==8) {
			for (i=0; i<8; i++) {
				p =  parlut[ buff[i] ] ;
				accum <<= 1;
				accum |= p;

				/* measure */
				if (p==1) ones++; else zeroes++;
				}
			 fwrite(&accum,1,1,of);
			 hist[accum]++;
			accum=0;

		}


	}

	printf("In: %0d bytes\n", count);
	printf("Out: %0d bytes\n", count/8);
	printf("output: 1's=%0d %0f% \n", ones, 100.0*ones/(ones+zeroes));
	printf("output: 0's=%0d %0f% \n", zeroes, 100.0*zeroes/(ones+zeroes));
	max=0;
	for (i=0; i<256; i++) {if (max
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 03:37:30 -0700 (PDT)
To: All Eureka/Stuffed Subscribers: ;
Subject: Half a mil for a spill:Clinton's expensive cock-up/Robber shoots own knob off
Message-ID: <19980806080000.26014.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Welcome to  today's  issue of Stuffed. To read it you should
click on the URL below.  If it is not made clickable by your
email program  you will need to  use your mouse to highlight
the line,  copy it and then paste it into your browser (then
press Return).

http://stuffed.net/98/8/6/

If you  have an email program that can display web pages you
will find today's front cover should have already been disp-
layed and can be clicked on to take you straight to Stuffed.

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Shostack 
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 05:37:09 -0700 (PDT)
To: Maurice@fundi.com (Maurice Valmont)
Subject: Re: Mysterious taglines
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980805235420.0072fa34@mail.fundi.com>
Message-ID: <199808061236.IAA06479@homeport.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Maurice Valmont wrote:
| >Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
| >anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
| >knowledge, reputations, information markets,
| >black markets, collapse of governments.
| 
| I'm curious: What exactly is "zero knowledge"?

A cool new software company involving the usual suspects.

Adam

-- 
"It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once."
					               -Hume






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 09:39:03 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Gilmore in USA Today
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980806093758.0079bec0@m7.sprynet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


	
So my wife hands me a deadtree periodical, _USA today_ Aug 5 98.

Secion D, cover: "A maverick cracks the code" with a big pic
of Gilmore, description of the DES scam, Jeffersonian
less gov't is more comment, and typical pop-media playup
of his personal bio. 

[See also "Strange Brains and Genius", by Clifford Pickover, 
for more bios :-]

The point: two or three column-feet(!) in a lowbrow high-volume rag.  Mentions
this list, too.

Not bad advertising for under $3e5 guys....






honig@alum.mit.edu

  








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 10:31:55 -0700 (PDT)
To: mgraffam@mhv.net
Subject: Re: Noise source processing
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980806073033.007cf540@m7.sprynet.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980806103120.007cfb00@m7.sprynet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 10:31 AM 8/6/98 -0400, mgraffam@mhv.net wrote:
>On Thu, 6 Aug 1998, David Honig wrote:
>
>> I have digitized FM radio hiss using a $10 transistor radio feeding
>> into the LINE in of my soundcard.  The spectrum looks poisson
>> with prominant, periodically spaced noise spikes.  It does not pass
Diehard.
>
>Yeah, I ran Diehard on it .. and that is why I wanted to find some
>references on removing bias.
>
>> But if you take the PARITY of 8 bits to get one bit, then assemble bytes
>> out of these bits, the results pass Diehard.
>
>This is a neat idea. I smiled when I read this in RFC1750
>
>> 1. There are some nice spectrogramming shareware programs out there.
>
>I haven't been able to find any for UNIX/X .. any recommendations
>for Win31 (I'll try it with Wabi ;) software?
>

You should probably look for native freeware, no?
Otherwise look in various win archives.

I have not yet done systematic experiments looking at, e.g., entropy in
less-than
full-amplitude noise, or intentionally filtering out various pieces
of spectrum.  The tables in RFC 1750 show that 8 bits is reasonable.

Interestingly, the parity of a $10 10year old Radio shack monophonic
FM radio, UNSHIELDED, in a digitally-noisy environment, sampled 
at 44Khz and 16 bits, passed Diehard.  

NB: Consumer computainment devices will include FM/TV receivers very shortly.
Less of a rat's nest in back of the machine.

I always thought listening to static was a suspicious activity.

A CDROM burner is $350.  "Entropy.  Its not just for ambassadors anymore."




honig@alum.mit.edu

  








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: mgraffam@mhv.net
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 07:42:16 -0700 (PDT)
To: David Honig 
Subject: Re: Noise source processing
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980806073033.007cf540@m7.sprynet.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Thu, 6 Aug 1998, David Honig wrote:

> I have digitized FM radio hiss using a $10 transistor radio feeding
> into the LINE in of my soundcard.  The spectrum looks poisson
> with prominant, periodically spaced noise spikes.  It does not pass Diehard.

Yeah, I ran Diehard on it .. and that is why I wanted to find some
references on removing bias.

> But if you take the PARITY of 8 bits to get one bit, then assemble bytes
> out of these bits, the results pass Diehard.

This is a neat idea. I smiled when I read this in RFC1750

> 1. There are some nice spectrogramming shareware programs out there.

I haven't been able to find any for UNIX/X .. any recommendations
for Win31 (I'll try it with Wabi ;) software?

[source clipped]

:) Sweet. Thanks.

Michael J. Graffam (mgraffam@mhv.net)
http://www.mhv.net/~mgraffam -- Philosophy, Religion, Computers, Crypto, etc
"Two things fill the mind with ever new and increasing admiration and awe
the more often and steadily we reflect upon them: the starry heavens
above and the moral law within me. I do not seek or conjecture either of
them as if they were veiled obscurities or extravagances beyond the horizon
of my vision; I see them before me and connect them immediately with the
consciousness of my existence." - Immanuel Kant "Critique of 
Practical Reason"





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 10:41:53 -0700 (PDT)
To: "Enzo Michelangeli" 
Subject: Re: Noise source processing
In-Reply-To: <003801bdc14f$c2ec86e0$87004bca@home>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980806104032.007dbc60@m7.sprynet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 11:34 PM 8/6/98 +0800, Enzo Michelangeli wrote:

>[[...]>The noise coming off of the sound card is more beige than white
>though..
>>
>>Does anyone know of any papers, articles or whatever on good techniques to
>>remove bias from the audio source?
>>
>>My initial thoughts are along the lines of just hashing everything, but
>>this will be slow, and I'd like to see what other ideas are out there.
>
>What about an analog filter placed before the digitizer?

The engineering issue is this: no matter how great you filter out 
the junk, you don't have a perfect analog measurement to start with.
(Note that filtering out junk reduces info content).

So the question is how to distill the bits out of your binary digits.
You need to reduce the number of bits; you need to make them equiprobable.

I have not had luck*time implementing Shannon's method for distilling bits,
mentioned as suggestion #2 in the RFC.  This method produces perfect 0:1 ratio
but takes indeterminate input bits to do so.  Please post if you play with
this.





honig@alum.mit.edu

  








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: CyberPsychotic 
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 22:10:51 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: text analysis
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hello folks,
 I have abit practical question, since I know this list is partly devoted
to cryptography matters, I guess this is the right place to ask:

 So I was playing with some crypto-analysis algorythms, and some steps of
them involve such thing as finding out the frequency of some character or
set of characters. So I wonder what would be the optimal (speed, resources
etc)way of coding this. While playing with single character frequency, I
guess the best way would be having unsigned int 256 elements array (I
refer to C coding) and each time, I find certain character, i just
increase the element of the array with this char offset. This seems very
neat to me (except the thing that some chars could be never found in
text). Anyways, when things come to 2 characters set, i have to get 1024
character set, and so on, which looks quite unreasonable to me to allocate
memory for elements, which probably will be never found in text... I was
thinking of other solution and came to two way connected lists (correct
term?)  things, i.e. : i have some structure like: 

struct element {
char value[ELEMENT_LENGTH];
unsigned int frequency;
struct element *previous;
struct element *next;
}
 and could dinamically allocate memory for each new found element, but
this would slow down whole code by the time list of new elements grow up.
(b/c i will have to look thro.. whole list in order to find whether such
element has already been found or not),  so I wonder maybe there another
neat way to complete tasks like this? I would appreciate any ideas, hints,
code examples. (would be very helpful having a look on some code
performing such a task, I surfed the web but didn't find many)...

 Thanks beforehands,
 Fyodor






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Berke Durak 
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 02:26:39 -0700 (PDT)
To: mgraffam@mhv.net
Subject: Re: Noise source processing
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Wed, 5 Aug 1998 mgraffam@mhv.net wrote:

[...]
> 
> The noise coming off of the sound card is more beige than white though..
> 
> Does anyone know of any papers, articles or whatever on good techniques to
> remove bias from the audio source? 

See the RFC 1750, Randomness Recommendations for Security. D. Eastlake, 3rd, S.
Crocker & J. Schiller. December 1994. (Format: TXT=73842 bytes)

A sample from the table of contents gives:

[...]
   5. Hardware for Randomness............................... 10
   5.1 Volume Required...................................... 10
   5.2 Sensitivity to Skew.................................. 10
   5.2.1 Using Stream Parity to De-Skew..................... 11
   5.2.2 Using Transition Mappings to De-Skew............... 12
   5.2.3 Using FFT to De-Skew............................... 13
   5.2.4 Using Compression to De-Skew....................... 13
   5.3 Existing Hardware Can Be Used For Randomness......... 14
   5.3.1 Using Existing Sound/Video Input................... 14
   5.3.2 Using Existing Disk Drives......................... 14
   6. Recommended Non-Hardware Strategy..................... 14
   6.1 Mixing Functions..................................... 15
   6.1.1 A Trivial Mixing Function.......................... 15
   6.1.2 Stronger Mixing Functions.......................... 16
   6.1.3 Diff-Hellman as a Mixing Function.................. 17
   6.1.4 Using a Mixing Function to Stretch Random Bits..... 17
   6.1.5 Other Factors in Choosing a Mixing Function........ 18
   6.2 Non-Hardware Sources of Randomness................... 19
   6.3 Cryptographically Strong Sequences................... 19
[...]

Berke Durak   - berke@gsu.linux.org.tr -  http://gsu.linux.org.tr/kripto-tr/
PGP bits/keyID: 2047/F203A409 fingerprint: 44780515D0DC5FF1:BBE6C2EE0D1F56A1





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mok-Kong Shen 
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 04:03:22 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: FOIA appeal
In-Reply-To: <35C8BE3D.629B@nmol.com>
Message-ID: <35C98D5B.875B030@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


bill payne wrote:

> Portions of the above document posted on Internet at
> http://www.us.net/softwar/ and  http://www.aci.net/kalliste/
> states
> 
> 1.      Gore charged with encryption policy according to PDD-5 and
>         PRD-27 on April 16, 1993.
> 
> 2.      Government officials represent themselves on Al Gore's behalf for
>         RSA patent purchase negotiations in Feb. 1994.
> 3.      RSA chairman Bidzos meets with Chinese officials at the same
>         time as Ron Brown in Oct. 1995.
> 
> 4.      RSA Chairman Bidzos enters into merger negotiations with Security
>         Dynamics, a company backed by Sanford Robertson, in Nov. 1995.
> 
> 5.      VP Gore calls Sanford Robertson from the White House for a
>         donation in Nov. 1995.
> 
> 6.      Robertson delivers $100,000 donation ($80,000 soft - $20,000
>         directly into the Clinton/Gore campaign) in Jan. 1996.
> 7.      RSA signs deal with China in Feb. 1996. The administration
>         previously prosecuted similar deals but this time does nothing.
> 8.      Justice Dept. approves RSA merger with Security Dynamics in
>         April 1996 for $280 million dollars, netting Sanford Robertson's
>         company a cool $2 million just to write the deal.

There is an old Chinese proverb: 'With money you can hire devils
to turn your mills'.

M. K. Shen




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: CTIA Daily News 
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 14:10:36 -0700 (PDT)
To: CTIA Daily News 
Subject: CTIA Daily News from WOW-COM - August 6, 1998
Message-ID: <199808061825.NAA27521@mailstrom.revnet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




==========================================
Welcome to today's edition of the CTIA Daily News
from WOW-COM.  Please click on the icon / attachment
for the most important news in wireless communications today.

If you cannot open the icon/attachment, please visit
http://www.wow-com.com/professional/ for the wireless 
daily news.

Don't miss the major conference on implementing 
Phase 2 of the E-911 requirement--August 26-27 
in San Francisco.  For more information click 
http://www.wow-com.com/pdf/locntech.pdf
===========================================

 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mok-Kong Shen 
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 04:44:34 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: text analysis
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <35C99712.A1572FA0@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


CyberPsychotic wrote:

> text). Anyways, when things come to 2 characters set, i have to get 1024
> character set, and so on, which looks quite unreasonable to me to allocate
> memory for elements, which probably will be never found in text... I was
> thinking of other solution and came to two way connected lists (correct
> term?)  things, i.e. : i have some structure like:
> 
> struct element {
> char value[ELEMENT_LENGTH];
> unsigned int frequency;
> struct element *previous;
> struct element *next;
> }
>  and could dinamically allocate memory for each new found element, but
> this would slow down whole code by the time list of new elements grow up.

I think currently memory is cheap enough so that you could do
frequency counts of at least trigrams with one dimensional array.

M. K. Shen




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Dave Emery 
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 11:27:44 -0700 (PDT)
To: David Honig 
Subject: Re: Noise source processing
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980806073033.007cf540@m7.sprynet.com>
Message-ID: <19980806142436.A4371@die.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Thu, Aug 06, 1998 at 10:31:20AM -0700, David Honig wrote:
> At 10:31 AM 8/6/98 -0400, mgraffam@mhv.net wrote:
> >On Thu, 6 Aug 1998, David Honig wrote:
> >
> >> I have digitized FM radio hiss using a $10 transistor radio feeding
> >> into the LINE in of my soundcard.  The spectrum looks poisson
> >> with prominant, periodically spaced noise spikes.  It does not pass


	This is expected of hard limiters below threshold  (such as in a
reasonable FM IF system fed Johnson noise).  The spikes occur on phase
discontinuities in the limiter output - what you are seeing is the input
Johnson noise intermittantly inducing phase jumps in the output of the
ringing IF filters shock excited by the broadband input noise.  The IF
filters tend to ring somewhat coherently until hit by another burst of
noise which sets them off on another phase.  Each phase jump shows up as
a spike on the discriminator output.  The narrower the bandwidth of the
filters, the longer the spike and interspike intervals. Thus one needs
an IF bandwidth considerably wider than the sample rate.

	Your parity scheme is pretty good, but simple zero crosses (or
crossings of the long term mean value of the waveform) aren't bad
either.   Many years ago I suggested, half seriously, that simply taking
a suitable cheap Radio Shack audio transformer and stepping the speaker
output of a cheap FM radio tuned between stations to around 15 volts and
shoving it directly into the CD or DSR input of a standard PC serial
port would work as a quicky hardware noise source (this was before the
near universality of soundcards on PCs).   The serial port pins 
incorperate a threshold comparitor in the RS-232/423 receiver chips
which would act to convert the noise to a string of 1s and 0s  that
could be sampled by reading the DSR value occasionally. Or one could use
the DSR interrupt and record the time the zero crossing occurred and use
this time stamp as a random (poisson distributed) value.

> 
> I always thought listening to static was a suspicious activity.
> 
	My wife thinks so...



-- 
	Dave Emery N1PRE,  die@die.com  DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass. 
PGP fingerprint = 2047/4D7B08D1 DE 6E E1 CC 1F 1D 96 E2  5D 27 BD B0 24 88 C3 18





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Alexander Kjeldaas 
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 05:25:02 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: SecDrv and Win95
In-Reply-To: <98Aug5.115014cdt.36865-1@gateway.mgmtscience.com>
Message-ID: <19980806142451.61001@lucifer.guardian.no>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Wed, Aug 05, 1998 at 07:47:24PM -0000, nobody@nsm.htp.org wrote:
> >>>>> Ian F Silver  writes:
> 
>   > I'm looking at CFS (Cryptographic File System) for when I make the
>   > jump away from Microsoft towards S.u.S.E. Linux 5.2.
> 
> Version 1.1.2 works quite well, but I'd really like to see someone
> build it into the kernel.  (Not me, alas: I'm up to my ears in other
> GPL applications development, and you really don't want to let me near
> an OS kernel...)

There is something called TCFS - transparent cryptographic file
system.  You could take a look at
ftp://ftp.pvv.org/pub/Linux/kerneli/v2.0/. I'm just starting a project
to provide an easy to use and up to date international patch for the
linux-kernel.  The current patch integrates the steganography and
crypto-patches for loopback filesystem, CIPE, and TCFS in one patch.
I'm looking at integrating IPsec as well, but at this time, there are
at least 5 different implementations of it.

astor

-- 
 Alexander Kjeldaas, Guardian Networks AS, Trondheim, Norway
 http://www.guardian.no/




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: mgraffam@mhv.net
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 11:55:15 -0700 (PDT)
To: David Honig 
Subject: Re: Noise source processing
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980806103120.007cfb00@m7.sprynet.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Thu, 6 Aug 1998, David Honig wrote:

> I have not yet done systematic experiments looking at, e.g., entropy in
> less-than full-amplitude noise, or intentionally filtering out various
> pieces of spectrum.

After I get the software end sorted out, I'm going to start stripping
the signal down and take look at some of this stuff too.. 

> Interestingly, the parity of a $10 10year old Radio shack monophonic
> FM radio, UNSHIELDED, in a digitally-noisy environment, sampled 
> at 44Khz and 16 bits, passed Diehard.  

Yeah, that is pretty neat .. maybe I'll tear the shielding off of my
source and see what sort of results I get. Maybe the shielding I
put in place is unnecessary.

Michael J. Graffam (mgraffam@mhv.net)
http://www.mhv.net/~mgraffam -- Philosophy, Religion, Computers, Crypto, etc
"If you die, you win.."
	John Landry, statistics professor discussing life insurance 
	and probability





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: newsletter20@hotmail.com
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 09:19:21 -0700 (PDT)
To: newsletter20@hotmail.com
Subject: Snoop by net
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 17:31:16 -0700 (PDT)
To: die@die.com
Subject: Re: Noise source processing
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980806103120.007cfb00@m7.sprynet.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980806161909.007ca100@m7.sprynet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 02:24 PM 8/6/98 -0400, Dave Emery wrote:
>
>	This is expected of hard limiters below threshold  (such as in a
>reasonable FM IF system fed Johnson noise).  The spikes occur on phase
>discontinuities in the limiter output - what you are seeing is the input
>Johnson noise intermittantly inducing phase jumps in the output of the
>ringing IF filters shock excited by the broadband input noise.  The IF
>filters tend to ring somewhat coherently until hit by another burst of
>noise which sets them off on another phase.  Each phase jump shows up as
>a spike on the discriminator output.  The narrower the bandwidth of the
>filters, the longer the spike and interspike intervals. Thus one needs
>an IF bandwidth considerably wider than the sample rate.

Given that the cheapo radio was 10 cm from a 21" monitor, I don't think
you need to invoke noise-driven resonances in the humble radio.

I was/am interested in robust methods that don't depend on 
exquisite analog equalization, etc.  

Zero crossings are analogs (pun intended) of 
RFC1750's #2 method (via Shannon):

map 01 -> 1 
map 10 -> 0
00, 11 are no-ops.  

Note that for a digital signal you are detecting level-changes.  (Vdd/2
changes?)


Waiting for zero crossing will give you perfect 0:1 ratio,
but you may have to wait arbitrarily long (but will almost
certainly not, in the formal sense ---there's a decaying exponential
in there).








  








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 08:01:10 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: text analysis
Message-ID: <199808061501.RAA26380@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


A good data structure is a tree:

                   ----->  2nd letter
                  /                    ------> 3rd letter
                 /                    /
      1st letter ------->  2nd letter -------> 3rd letter
                 \                    \
                  \                    ------> 3rd letter
                   ----->  2nd letter
                                      \
                                       -----> 3rd letter


Start with an array indexed by the 26 letters.  Each array entry contains
a count of that letter's frequence and a pointer to a subsidary array.
The pointer starts out null.

When you find a new digraph (like the first time you find a letter after
'g') you allocate a new structure to represent the letters following 'g'.
This will again consist of 26 entries like the first one.

Likewise when you find a new trigraph, you allocate a new third-level
array of 26 entries.

This will be a compromise between space and speed.  Most digraphs don't
exist so you will save considerable space over the brute force way of
allocating an array of 26^n spaces to count n-graphs.  However it is
a bit wasteful in that it allocates a full 26 entries each time even
though only a small fraction will be used.

The last layer does not need to have the pointers allocated per letter
since you won't be looking beyond that (e.g. if you are only interested
in counting trigraphs, the third layer above can consist of just an
array of counts).

struct entry {
	int count;
	struct entry *next;
} top;

Handle letter, given array of previous letters.  prev[0] is current
letter, prev[1] is 1st previous letter, prev[2] is 2nd previous letter,
etc.  Size of prev is n entries.  Letters are normalized to range 0-25.
Untested code, hopefully it will give you the idea.

handle (int prev[], int n)
{
	struct entry *cur;

	cur = top;
	for (i=0; inext['h'-'a'+1]->next['t'-'a'+1].  You can correct for
this when you print them out.  Or you can store the letters in the prev
array in the opposite order, putting the current letter in prev[n-1],
then they will be in the correct order.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Bernardo B. Terrado" 
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 03:17:50 -0700 (PDT)
To: Anonymous 
Subject: compression vs encryption
In-Reply-To: <199808031315.PAA15001@replay.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


What's the difference between compression and encryption?


Correct me if I'm wrong,  in compression we lose something, like in 
image compression and audio compression,  but in encryption, we don't. 

One sure protection againts evil hackers is encryption (?), but what if 
that evil hacker deletes the ciphertext file and the plain text file (that
is assuming the evil hacker just deletes every file he wants to delete).
---at least he/she didn't read/saw the file.

















===============================================================================
You give the words  you have spoken,
   it is not lended and are not taken back.
It is like what The Corrs sung "...you're forgiven not forgotten...."

bbt@mudspring.uplb.edu.ph
bbt@peak-two.uplb.edu.ph
metaphone@altavista.net





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 23:12:56 -0700 (PDT)
To: Mok-Kong Shen 
Subject: Re: text analysis
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980806202007.0090e140@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 01:44 PM 8/6/98 +0100, Mok-Kong Shen wrote:
>CyberPsychotic wrote:
>> text). Anyways, when things come to 2 characters set, i have to get 1024
>> character set, and so on, which looks quite unreasonable to me to allocate
>> memory for elements, which probably will be never found in text... I was
>> thinking of other solution and came to two way connected lists (correct
>> term?)  things, i.e. : i have some structure like:
>> 
>> struct element {
>> char value[ELEMENT_LENGTH];
>> unsigned int frequency;
>> struct element *previous;
>> struct element *next;
>> }
>>  and could dinamically allocate memory for each new found element, but
>> this would slow down whole code by the time list of new elements grow up.
>
>I think currently memory is cheap enough so that you could do
>frequency counts of at least trigrams with one dimensional array.

RAM is cheap - any 486 computer and most 386 computers has at least 4MB.
In the US, most new PCs have 16MB or more, and many have 64MB.
But learning how to program efficiently is still important :-)
And some computers have operating systems that make it hard
to use all of the RAM.
Disk is cheaper - almost all new computers have 1GB or more,
and most older desktops have at least 200MB.
You probably should use 32-bit integers to store your counters,
but you need to make sure your program does the right thing
if you exceed counts of 2**31.

Are you counting all kinds of text, or only words made of alphabetic
characters and spaces and punctuation, or only ASCII 127-bit?
Your 1024 number is 32*32, which sounds like only alphabetic and spaces;
if that's good enough, you could do 32*32*32*32 with 4-byte counts
and still fit in 4MB.
If you want all 256 possible 8-bit characters, two characters 
requires 64K counters (256KB).   Trigrams require 16 million counters
if you allocate space for them all, which is 64MB, and may be expensive.
But you could store 256*256 pointers in 256KB, and allocate memory
for 256-counter arrays only for the digrams that appear,
and probably save lots of memory.  You could also store the counts on disk, 
and keep only the more frequently used arrays of counts in RAM.
This was how we did things in the old days, when almost everything
was too big for RAM, and it really is much slower if you're not careful :-)
If you have a machine with a real operating system, you can 
pretend keep your counters in RAM and let the operating system
decide what to page out to disk.  Think about this carefully,
because it can be very fast or very slow depending on how
well you write your programs.
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 23:12:56 -0700 (PDT)
To: "Ian F. Silver" 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980806202703.008a8e60@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 11:50 AM 8/5/98 -0500, Ian F. Silver wrote:
>I found an interesting "mount a container as a drive letter"
>encryption program in finland called "BestCrypt NP", [...]
>It has three algorithms that you can pick from for encryption:
> GOST28147-89 (32 rounds, 256 bits primary key, 512 bits secondary key)
> Blowfish (in Cipher Block Chaining Mode with 256-bit key length and 16 rounds)
> DES
>I use Blowfish and GOST (depending on the size of the container I'm
>working with), and avoided DES, even before Deep Crack was invented. 

Never Never Trust GOST !!!  
The security of GOST depends on the quality of the S-Boxes (or whatever
the equivalent fields in GOST are called).  The Soviets provided
different sets for military and civilian use, and unless you know a lot
about the design, you can't tell strong ones from weak ones -
you have to worry about differential and linear cryptanalysis,
plus any other attacks that may have been developed over the years.
You're better off using 3DES if you like old slow algorithms;
in this case, I'd stick to Blowfish.

				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: mgraffam@mhv.net
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 18:50:43 -0700 (PDT)
To: David Honig 
Subject: Re: Noise source processing
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980806161909.007ca100@m7.sprynet.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Thu, 6 Aug 1998, David Honig wrote:

> Zero crossings are analogs (pun intended) of 
> RFC1750's #2 method (via Shannon):
> 
> map 01 -> 1 
> map 10 -> 0
> 00, 11 are no-ops.  

RFC1750 attributes this to von Neumann.

Michael J. Graffam (mgraffam@mhv.net)
http://www.mhv.net/~mgraffam -- Philosophy, Religion, Computers, Crypto, etc
They (who) seek to establish systems of government based on the
regimentation of all human beings by a handful of individual rulers..
call this a new order. It is not new, and it is not order."
				- Franklin Delano Roosevelt





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: FRETELUCO@aol.com
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 19:07:33 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: whut up
Message-ID: <9214be44.35ca6128@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


looking for a place to have some Band stickers made, can you email me a phone
number so we can check out some prices.....thanks TIm




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ZeroInt 
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 20:11:58 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: whut up
In-Reply-To: <9214be44.35ca6128@aol.com>
Message-ID: <199808070311.UAA15026@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 10:06 PM 8/6/98 -0400, FRETELUCO@aol.com wrote:
>looking for a place to have some Band stickers made, can you email me a phone
>number so we can check out some prices.....thanks TIm
> 

Yeah, I checked out some prices.  Looks so so.  Here's the number
1-800-eat-shit or 1-800-then-die 
PGP Fingerprints:
99EB 330B B517 F5A3  CDD3 875D CDB6 8621 - 0x2A47CAAF
BCBF 8B61 551E 4A75 C3A7  9192 C158 0774 EB5A 746D - 0xEB5A746D

PGP encrypted mail preferred 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Alan Olsen 
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 22:44:32 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Is there a freeware knockoff of SSH for win95
In-Reply-To: <199808070521.HAA17085@replay.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980806224358.03cd4330@clueserver.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 07:21 AM 8/7/98 +0200, Anonymous wrote:
>
>I'm looking for something to encrypt all of my web browsing while I am
>at work.  My work keeps a couple gigs devoted to a cache file in the
>proxy and I want to find a cheap way around that for my work. 
>Personally paying for Fsecure SSH is not worth it just for work.
>I would be wiiling to pay for an account at cyberpass.net for their
>ssh server but the software is way too much.

I would like to find any of the Win95 versions that immplement scp (Secure
Copy).

Look for a product called SecureCRT.  It has a 30 day trial period.

http://www.vandyke.com/ should have more info on it.
---
|      Bill Clinton - Bringing back the Sixties one Nixon at a time!     |
|"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmermann unites all| Disclaimer:         |
| mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!"  | Ignore the man      |
|                                                  | behind the keyboard.|
|         http://www.ctrl-alt-del.com/~alan/       |alan@ctrl-alt-del.com|




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Enzo Michelangeli" 
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 08:33:55 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: Re: Noise source processing
Message-ID: <003801bdc14f$c2ec86e0$87004bca@home>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----Original Message-----
From: mgraffam@mhv.net 
Date: Thursday, August 06, 1998 10:17 AM


[[...]>The noise coming off of the sound card is more beige than white
though..
>
>Does anyone know of any papers, articles or whatever on good techniques to
>remove bias from the audio source?
>
>My initial thoughts are along the lines of just hashing everything, but
>this will be slow, and I'd like to see what other ideas are out there.

What about an analog filter placed before the digitizer? Nowadays there
should be inexpensive single-chip implementations of multiple-tap equalizers
made for consumer audio. You just have to straighten up the amplitude
ignoring the phase rotation, because the power spectrum is a real-codomain
function (being the Fourier Transform of the autocorrelation, which is an
even function). It won't be perfect, but it'll help.

Enzo








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bestoffer@thedorm.com
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 23:43:53 -0700 (PDT)
To: bestoffer@thedorm.com
Subject: Zero Down Internet Opportunity!
Message-ID: <199808070643.XAA18999@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


$0 Down Internet Opportunity
*Complete Computer System
*E- Com web site package
*Tutorials- we'll teach you
* Earn BIG while you learn
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 98  23:13:00 +-400
Message-Id: <9808062313001989100@mail1>

For More Info:
602-735-3760





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 21:43:51 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199808070443.GAA08724@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


That all depends on the Anonymous you are talking to.
If I did this right It will come out of the remailer as TBM so I'm not
just another anonymous :)


---kryz  wrote:
>
> Anonymous,
> 
> I reckon you're quite a tough person, am I right?
> 
> 

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 21:50:23 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: whut up
Message-ID: <199808070450.GAA10167@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Thu, 6 Aug 1998 FRETELUCO@aol.com wrote:

> 
> looking for a place to have some Band stickers made, can you email me a phone
> number so we can check out some prices.....thanks TIm
> 
> 

Whut up dawg??? we be dim k-rad k3wl CyPhErPuNk d00dz!! we be havin' no
band stickerz. we be learning Ebonics (what it is, man!) so we can be
rappin' with looserz like you! What it is, man!

we be chargin' $99.99 of green to make deez band stickaz! What it is, man!

-- dim k-rad k3wl CyPhErPuNk d00dz





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 22:21:53 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Is there a freeware knockoff of SSH for win95
Message-ID: <199808070521.HAA17085@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I'm looking for something to encrypt all of my web browsing while I am
at work.  My work keeps a couple gigs devoted to a cache file in the
proxy and I want to find a cheap way around that for my work. 
Personally paying for Fsecure SSH is not worth it just for work.
I would be wiiling to pay for an account at cyberpass.net for their
ssh server but the software is way too much.


_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 04:45:29 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Export Controls Revised
Message-ID: <199808071145.HAA13751@camel14.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


BXA published in the Federal Register today revisions
to the EAR to fit Wassenaar/Anti-terrorism controls:

   http://jya.com/bxa080798.txt

The changes show that the shift from global cold warfare 
to global anti-terrorism continues without diminution of 
national security terrorism. And crypto remains a terrifying 
threat to the natsec warriors aiming to maintain global 
snooping.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 07:04:27 -0700 (PDT)
To: senatorlott@lott.senate.gov
Subject: Another criminal complaint affidavit
Message-ID: <35CB083D.44D0@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Friday 8/7/98 7:43 AM

Art Morales

Let's hope the government gets these messed settled before they become
WORSE.

bill


Friday 8/7/98  7:30 AM
 
Certified   Return receipt requested 
 
Proctor Hug  Jr 
Chief Judge, Ninth Circuit 
50 West Liberty Street 
Reno, NV 89501-1948 
(702) 784-5631 
784-5166 fax 
 
Dear judge Hug: 
 
Purposes of this letter- criminal complaint affidavit are to 
 
1 file a criminal complaint affidavits against Ninth circuit Senior Case Expeditor Gwen Baptiste for  
   Obstruction of Justice, 
 
2  ask why not have not yet done your job. 
 
On 4/1/98 I forwarded to you criminal complaint affidavits for proper processing. 
 
In a hand-addressed envelope stamped CONFIDENTIAL with return address 
 
              CLERK, U.S. COURT OF APPEALS 
	P.O. BOX 547 
	SAN FRANCISCO, CA 94101-0547 
 
	OFFICIAL BUSINESS 
	PENALTY FOR PRIVATE USE, 300 
 
postmarked  SAN FRANCISCO, CALIF  APR 24 98 U.S. POSTAGE $2.62 METER 504753 
some returned the complaints to me. 
 
On May 5, 1998 I received the ATTACHED letter which states 
 
  Re: Complaint of Judicial Misconduct 
 
  We have received your complaint of judicial misconduct or disability.  It is being returned to you for 
  failure to comply with the Rules of the Judicial Counsel of the Ninth Circuit Governing Complaints 
  of Judicial Misconduct or Disability (Rules).  See Rule 3(d). ... 
 
  xx_A copy of these Rules is enclosed.  To understand the purpose of the procedure and who may be 
  complained about, please refer to Rules 1 and 2. ... 
 
  xx  Statement of facts exceed five pages  See Rule 2(b). ... 
 
  xx  Other.  Please complete the complaint form and return sufficient copies.  See attached Rules for  
  guidance.   Your complaint can only be against Article Three Judges. 
 
				Very truly yours, 
 
				signature 
 
				Gwen Baptiste 
				Senior Case Expeditor 
 
Judge Hug,  I am NOT filing a COMPLAINT OF JUDICIAL MISCONDUCT. 
 
I am filing CRIMINAL COMPLAINT AFFIDAVITS in accordance with procedures set forth in law. 
 
Our forefathers designed the criminal law system with the possibility in mind that a cabal of lawyers 
might band together in an attempt to prevent prosecution of one or more friends. 
 
Therefore, if local federal officials will not do their duty and prosecute for criminal activity IN WRITING , 
then a citizen has the right to seek and select a magistrate from another district. 
 
Most individuals would interpret the letter 
 
                              U.S. Department of Justice  
                              United States Attorney  
                              District of New Mexico  
                              Post Office Box 607 
                              Albuquerque, New Mexico 87103  
                                                                 505/766 3341 
                                                                 505/766 2868 
                                                                          FAX 505/766-8517 
                              May 19, 1997  
 
 
  Mr. William A. Payne  
  13015 Calle de Sandia, NE  
  Albuquerque, New Mexico 87111  
 
  Dear Mr. Payne:  
 
     My name is Robert J. Gorence. I am the First Assistant U.S. Attorney and the Chief of the Criminal    
  Division for the United States Attorney's Office for the District of New Mexico. I am in receipt of your  
  February 13, 1997 letter to Judge Frank John McGill as well as your September 20, 1996 Request for  
  Examination of Report Filed by a Judicial Officer. In your letter to Judge McGill, you assert on 
  page 2, paragraph 4 that you have filed a "criminal complaint affidavit" with Judge Bunton. On page 4 you  
  accuse Judge Paul Kelly of a felony. On page 8 you assert that you are waiting receipt of an arrest warrant for  
  Judge Kelly.  
 
     I do not understand the basis of your assertions. However, I will tell you that any attempt by you to privately  
  execute any type of "arrest warrant," against any member of the federal judiciary would constitute a violation  
  of 18 U.S.C. § 1201 - Kidnaping, a felony which carries a potential of life imprisonment. Also, attempts on  
  your part to file private "criminal complaint affidavits" or "arrest warrants" regarding members of the federal  
  judiciary would constitute a violation of 18 U.S.C. § 111 - Impeding a Federal Officer in the 
  Performance of Their Official Duties. I trust you will take my warnings seriously and that you will cease this  
  obstreperous conduct. If you do not, federal criminal charges will be filed against you.  
 
     Sincerely,  
 
     [Signature]  
 
     ROBERT J. GORENCE  
     First Assistant U.S. Attorney  
 
RJG/maf 
 
http://www.jya.com/whprjg.htm 
 
as an indication that justice would not be forthcoming from the New Mexico District Attorney's Office. 
 
Therefore, I sought external relief. 
 
 First with Judge Fern Smith, District of Northern California  on March 11, 1996. 
 
Smith along with Albuquerque FBI agent-in-charge Thomas Knier sent FBI agents to our home to attempt to 
threaten me.  
 
Next I sought relief from  J. Clifford Wallace, chief judge,  Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals on  July 9, 1996. 
 
Wallace received a criminal complaint affidavit on Knier on July 15, 1996 for sending FBI agents in an 
attempt to threaten me. 
  
Ms. Corina Orozco,  Deputy Clerk., Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals wrote me 
 
             August 15, 1996 
 
             This court is in receipt of you letters dated July 15, 1996. 
 
             If you wish to file an appeal in this court and seek 
             judicial relief you must first file an action in the U.S. 
             District Court. 
 
NO, judge Hug, I was filing CRIMINAL COMPLAINT AFFIDAVITS. 
 
Gwen Baptiste from the Office of  the Clerk, United States Court of Appeals for The Ninth Circuit, 
wrote on July 25, 1996 
 
                  Re: Complaint of Judicial Misconduct 
 
             We have received your complaint of judicial misconduct. 
             Pursuant to the Rules of the Judicial Council of the Ninth 
             Circuit Governing Complaints of Judicial Misconduct or 
             Disability, you complaint is being returned to you for 
             compliance with the above rules.  A copy of these rules is 
             enclosed.  To understand the purpose of the procedure and 
             who may be complaint about please refer to Rules 1 and 2. 
 
AGAIN, judge Hug, I am filing CRIMINAL COMPLAINT AFFIDAVITS not COMPLAINTS OF JUDICIAL  
MISCONDUCT.   
 
Judge Hug, I hope it is FINALLY CLEAR that I am filing CRIMINAL COMPLAINT AFFIDAVITS as 
I am entitled to do by law. 
 
Judge Hug, THE DOCUMENTS YOU SHOULD HAVE IN YOUR POSSESSION and you can 
view on Internet at http://www.jya.com/snlhit.htm show 
 
1  Criminal violations of the Privacy Act http://www.jya.com/hr105-37.txt 
    ATTACHED 11 pages beginning with Sandia National Laboratories 
    director  Michael Robles writing EEOC Director Charles Burtner. 
 
    A  I never saw the documents until Sandia employee Richard Gallegos gave me a copy in 1997.  
    B  Sandia denied that the documents existed.   
    C  The documents contain factually incorrect information.  I did NOTHING WRONG.  I followed all        
         Sandia procedures known to me and obtained all required Sandia approvals.
    D  I was never given an opportunity to defend myself.  http://jya.com/greene.htm  
    E  Neither Sandia nor EEOC had my permission in writing for release  of the information.  
 
2  A ATTACHED PERJURED SWORN affidavit by Sandia attorney Gregory Cone submitted 
of the court of New Mexico judge John Conway. 
 
             AFFIDAVIT OF GREGORY A. CONE 
 
             Gregory A. Cone, being duly sworn, deposes and states: 
 
             1. I am employed by Sandia Corporation.  I am an attorney 
             admitted to practice law in the State of California and before the 
             U. S. Patent and Trademark Office and concentrate on legal issues 
             related to patent and copyright law.  In that capacity, I am  
             familiar with activities at the Sandia National Laboratories 
             ("Sandia") as they related to what is sometimes referred to as 
             "reverse engineering." ... 
 
              It is the general view at Sandia that disassembly of "object 
             code" under such circumstances constitutes a "fair use" of 
             copyrighted software under 17 U.S.C. article 107 and is thus 
             permissible.  Sandia bases its view on Sega Enterprises v. 
             Accolade, Inc. 977 F.2d 1510, 24 U.S.P. Q. 2d 1561 (9th Cir. 
             1992), amended, 1993 U. S. App. LEXIS 78, and Atari Games Corp 
             v. Nintendo of America, Inc, 975 F.2d 832 (Fed. Cir.  
             1992) ... 
 
             FURTHER, Affidavit sayeth naught. 
                                  
                                 (signed) 
                                GREGORY A. CONE. 
 
             SUBSCRIBED, SWORN TO and ACKNOWLEDGED before me on this 12th 
             day of August, 1993, by Gregory A. Cone." 
                                                 (signed) 
                                                Mary A. Resnick 
 
                                                Notary Public 
 
             My Commission Expires: 
 
             2-7-94 
 
Lawyer Cone has citations reversed.  The  U. S. Patent Quarterly references the Atari v Nintendo lawsuit.   
1510 should be corrected to 1015. 
 
Judge Fern Smith  ruled in both cases: 
 
                The first two cases to directly address the issue of 
                intermediate copying both originated in California's 
                Northern District Court.  They are Atari v. Nintendo and 
                Sega v. Accolade.  In both cases, the district court  
                found that intermediate copying was NOT fair use. ... 
  
                In a strong opinion she [Fern Smith] wrote in March 1991, 
                when granting Nintendo's request for a preliminary 
                injunction against Atari, she lambasted Atari's lawyers for 
                thievery.  ... 
 
                However, both cases have been overruled on appeal. In the 
                ground-breaking Atari decision, the Federal Circuit held 
                that intermediate copying was a fair use.  The Sega 
                decision, which was appealed to the Ninth Circuit Court of 
                Appeals, similarly overruled the district court and held 
                that intermediate copying may be fair use. 
 
        The New Use of Fair Use:  Accessing Copyrighted Programs Through  
        Reverse Engineering, Stephen B. Maebius, Journal of the Patent and  
        Trademark Office Society, June 1993, 75, n6, p433 
 
Cone's affidavit attempts to create the appearance that  reverse engineering  I REFUSED to do for the FBI was  
legal before July 27, 1992, the date of  my firing.  
 
Decision of the appeal was apparently Decided SEPTEMBER 10, 1992.  Page 1016 from 24 USPQ 2d, Atari  
Games Corp.  v. Nintendo of America.  I was fired JULY 27, 1992! 
 
Lawyer Cone has under oath knowingly made a false material declaration before a court.   
 
Judge Hug, we just can't get the arrest warrant issued for Cone YET.  Or for those who violated the criminal 
sections of the Privacy Act 
 
Judges and clerks who are apparently are reluctant to properly proceed against other federal or federal contract 
employee are themselves committing crimes. 
 
Judge Hug, there is ONE SET OF LAWS in the United States of America.  Not a set of laws which applies to 
ordinary citizens and another which apply to judges, clerks, federal and federal contract employees. 
 
Rule 3 of the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure, entitled the Complaint provides: 
 
              The complaint is a written statement of the essential  
	facts constituting the offense charged.  It shall be made  
	upon oath before a magistrate. 
 
As you may be aware, 
 
             An individual may "make a written complaint on oath before  
	an examining and committing magistrate, and obtain a warrant  
	of arrest."  This is in conformity with the Federal  
	Constitution, and "consonant with the principles of natural  
	justice and personal liberty found in the common law." 
 
        [United States v Kilpatrick (1883, DC NC) 16G 765, 769] 
 
You may also be aware, 
 
            A complaint though quite general in terms is valid if it 
            sufficiently apprises the defendant of the nature of the 
            offense with which he is charged. 
 
        [United States v Wood (1927, DC Tex) 26F2d 908, 910, affd 
        (CA5 Tex) 26 F2d 912. 
 
And for your edification, 
 
        The commission of a crime must be shown by facts positively 
        stated.  The oath or affirmation required is of facts and 
        not opinions or conclusion. 
 
        [United States ex rel. King v Gokey (1929, DC NY) 32 F2d 
        793, 794] 
 
        The complaint must be accompanied by an oath. 
 
        [Re Rules of Court (1877, CC Ga) 3 Woods 502, F Cas No 
        12126] 
 
        A complaint must be sworn to before a commissioner or other 
        officer empowered to commit persons charged with offenses 
        against the United States. 
 
        [United States v Bierley ( 1971, WD Pa) 331 F Supp 1182] 
 
Such office is now called a magistrate. 
 
        A complaint is ordinarily made by an investigating officer 
        or agent, and where private citizens seek warrants of 
        arrest, the practice recommended by the Judicial Conference 
        of the United States is to refer the complaint to the United 
        States Attorney.  However, further reference to him is 
        rendered futile where a mandamus proceeding is brought to 
        compel him to prosecute and he opposes the proceeding. 
 
        [Pugach v Klein (1961, SD NY) 193 F Supp 630, citing Manual 
        for United States Commissioners 5 (1948)] 
 
Any attempt to bring criminal complaints to government authorities  
would, of course, be as evidenced by Gorrence's letter http://www.jya.com/whprjg.htm . 
 
I am a citizen of the United States and you are the assigned  
magistrate. 
 
        In order to satisfy the requirement of the Constitution  
        and Rules 3 and 4, a written and sworn complaint should set 
        forth the essential facts constituting the offense charged 
        and also facts showing that the offense was committed and 
        that the defendant committed it. 
 
And, 
 
        As to the requirement that the complaint be made on personal 
        knowledge of the complainant, it is enough for the issuance 
        of a warrant that a complainant shows it to be on the 
        knowledge of the complainant. 
 
        [Giordenello v United States (1958) 357 US 480, 2 L Ed. 2d 
        1503, 78 S Ct 1245, rev. (Ca5 Tx) 241 F2d 575, 579 in accord 
        Rice v Ames (1901) 180 US 371, 45 L Ed 577, 21 S ct 406, and 
        United States v Walker, (1952, CA2 NY) 197 F 2d 287, 289, 
        cert den 344 US 877, 97 L Ed 679, 73 S Ct 172] 
 
So as to keep contiguous the requirements of the law and the criminal  
complaint affidavits, I will include this complaint in this letter  
to you. 
 
CRIMINAL COMPLAINT AFFIDAVIT: Gwen Baptiste 
 
Essential material facts are: 
 
1 July 25, 1996 Gwen Baptiste improperly returns criminal complaint affidavits properly forwarded to  
Ninth Circuit judge J Clifford Wallace. 
 
2 May 5, 1998  Bapitist repeats return of criminal complaint affidavits properly sent to judge Proctor Hug  Jr. 
 
COUNT 1 
 
3  Ninth circuit Senior Case Expeditor Gwen Baptiste  is charged with REPEATED INTENTIONAL  
MACLIOUS Obstruction of Justice, 18 USC 1512, (b) and (c).  
 
Title 18 Obstruction of Justice, Article  1512, as amended, states 
 
             Tampering with a witness, victim, or an informant 
 
             (b) Whoever knowingly uses intimidation ...  
	     threatens, ... or engages in misleading conduct toward  
	     another person with intent to - 
 
             (3) hinder, delay or prevent the communication to a law 
             enforcement officer or judge of the United States of 
             information relating to the commission or possible 
             commission of a Federal offense ... 
 
             (c) Whoever intentionally harasses another person and  
	     thereby hinders, delays, prevents, or dissuades any  
	     person from -  
 
             (1) reporting to a law enforcement or judge of the United 
             States the commission or possible commission of a Federal 
             offense ... 
 
             or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned ... 
				 
for Baptiste's TWO attempts to convince citizen Payne to file a judicial misconduct complaint 
when Payne was filing CRIMINAL COMPLAINT AFFIDAVITS. 
 
              VERIFICATION 
 
              Under penalty of perjury as provided by law, the  
	undersigned certifies pursuant to 28 USC section 1746  
	that material factual statements set forth in this  
	criminal complaint are true and correct, except as to  
	any matters therein stated to be information and belief  
	of such matters the undersigned certifies as aforesaid  
	that the undersigned verily believes the same to be true. 
 
 
 
 
             Date                     William H. Payne 
        			 13015 Calle de Sandias NE 
                                          Albuquerque, NM 87111 
                                          505-292-7037 
  
Judge Hug, many citizens are becoming disgusted with government misconduct.  Something must 
be done to correct this. 
 
One example is of government misconduct is how the Department of Justice handled the case of a citizen  
ACCUSED of a federal firearm violation. http://www.monumental.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum/ 
 
Displeasure with the way the government handled to bring the ACCUSED to justice led to an 
unfortunate display of dissatisfaction.  ARTICLES RELATED TO OKLAHOMA CITY BOMBING   
http://www.aci.net/kalliste/  
 
Tenth circuit court clerks and judges violated their own rules denying court wins to citizen Morales and 
myself.  Senator Orrin Hatch improperly processed a judicial misconduct complaint against New Mexico
judge John Conway. http://www.jya.com/whp071598.htm

These two acts mostly caused Morales and me AND OTHERS to reveal additional unfortunate decisions by
factions within the US government in the hope PROMPT SETTLEMENT will bring relief. 
http://www.aci.net/kalliste/speccoll.htm   http://caq.com/cryptogate  http://jya.com/whpfiles.htm   
 
We seeks changes within the law so as to avoid future citizen frustration of our government and legal system 
not working properly.   
 
And possible unacceptable, but understandable, future expressions of frustrations of government employees not  
obeying the law. 
 
WRITTEN EVIDENCE both in document copies and on Internet is so BLATANT that crimes have been  
committed. 
 
 I ask that you do you job and issue the warrants of arrest.  Or write me and tell me why you cannot. 
 
I ask that you respond within 30 days. 
 
No response is an invalid response.  As  accused felon former chief judge J Clifford Wallace may 
now know. 
 
Sincerely, 
 
 
 
William H. Payne 
13015 Calle de Sandias NE 
Albuquerque, NM 87111 
 
Distribution 
 
Antoin Scalia   http://www.jya.com/whpscalia.htm   Certified Return receipt requested 
http://www.senate.gov/committee/judiciary.html



9






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED/EUREKA! 
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 03:11:03 -0700 (PDT)
To: All Eureka/Stuffed Subscribers: ;
Subject: Family TV station shows 5 hrs XXX porn/Skimpy barmaids down under
Message-ID: <19980807080000.8860.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Welcome to  today's  issue of Stuffed. To read it you should
click on the URL below.  If it is not made clickable by your
email program  you will need to  use your mouse to highlight
the line,  copy it and then paste it into your browser (then
press Return).

http://stuffed.net/98/8/7/

If you  have an email program that can display web pages you
will find today's front cover should have already been disp-
layed and can be clicked on to take you straight to Stuffed.

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Enzo Michelangeli" 
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 17:53:17 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: Re: Noise source processing
Message-ID: <00be01bdc19d$e74dbe20$88004bca@home>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----Original Message-----
From: mgraffam@mhv.net 
Date: Friday, August 07, 1998 4:14 AM


>> Interestingly, the parity of a $10 10year old Radio shack monophonic
>> FM radio, UNSHIELDED, in a digitally-noisy environment, sampled
>> at 44Khz and 16 bits, passed Diehard.
>
>Yeah, that is pretty neat .. maybe I'll tear the shielding off of my
>source and see what sort of results I get. Maybe the shielding I
>put in place is unnecessary.


Hmmm... IMHO, it just means that you can't rely on statistic tests
alone in order to measure entropy content. In fact, you can't measure it at
all: you can only set upper bounds, but, sadly, no lower bounds.
Remember: also pi's digits would pass DIEHARD, and an external attacker
could well inject such kind of EMI into an unshielded receiver.

Enzo






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Enzo Michelangeli" 
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 17:53:22 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: Re: Noise source processing
Message-ID: <00bf01bdc19d$eb2c09c0$88004bca@home>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----Original Message-----
From: David Honig 
Date: Friday, August 07, 1998 1:58 AM


>>What about an analog filter placed before the digitizer?
>
>The engineering issue is this: no matter how great you filter out
>the junk, you don't have a perfect analog measurement to start with.
>(Note that filtering out junk reduces info content).

Well, linear analog filters are reversible, so, by themselves, they neither
destroy nor create information. In practice they may add some noise of their
own, drowning the original signal, but in our case this is good, not bad :-)

The relationship between entropy and reversibility is a deep one, of course.
That's also why reversible computing can, among other things, reduce the
power consumption without any theoretical limit.

Enzo







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 07:53:42 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Eudora Flaw
Message-ID: <199808071453.KAA00807@camel14.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Markoff reports in today's NY Times on Eudora's e-mail 
security flaw:


http://www.nytimes.com/library/tech/yr/mo/biztech/articles/07email-code.html

It's the feature which allows clicking on a URL in a message,
which can run an attached malicious program, or otherwise trash
a user's disk.

A fix is due out this afternoon from Qualcomm. In the meantime NYT
says the flaw can be fixed by going to "Options," "Viewing Mail" and 
turning off "Use Microsoft's viewer."

Security experts are quoted: beware any attachment to E-mail, 
and not just for Eudora.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: CTIA Daily News 
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 11:22:29 -0700 (PDT)
To: CTIA Daily News 
Subject: CTIA Daily News from WOW-COM - August 7, 1998
Message-ID: <199808071802.NAA22380@mailstrom.revnet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




==========================================
Welcome to today's edition of the CTIA Daily News
from WOW-COM.  Please click on the icon / attachment
for the most important news in wireless communications today.

If you cannot open the icon/attachment, please visit
http://www.wow-com.com/professional/  for the wireless 
daily news.

Don't miss the major conference on implementing 
Phase 2 of the E-911 requirement--August 26-27 
in San Francisco.  For more information, click 
http://www.wow-com.com/pdf/locntech.pdf 
===========================================
 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 19:55:28 -0700 (PDT)
To: j orlin grabbe 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Friday 8/7/98 8:10 PM

J Orlin Grabbe  http://www.aci.net/kalliste/

The Great Crash by John Kenneth Galbraith pointed out that the crash did
not come
with one catastrophic plunge.

Rather the market, lowered, many thinking this was the bottom,
reinvested.

The market lowered again.

This cycle, Galbraith pointed out, was repeated until about everyone was
broke.
http://www.cib.org.uk/eng/alinks/a000769.htm

About corrupt courts, EVEN the Nazi's were finally so horrified by what
happened after
the assassination attempt on Hitler the Nazi's even became appalled.  

A GREAT BOOK about this was written 

                     Berlin Diaries, 1940-1945
                     by Marie Vassiltchikov 
                     
                    
Later
bill


Friday 8/7/98  7:30 AM
 
Certified   Return receipt requested 
 
Proctor Hug  Jr 
Chief Judge, Ninth Circuit 
50 West Liberty Street 
Reno, NV 89501-1948 
(702) 784-5631 
784-5166 fax 
 
Dear judge Hug: 
 
Purposes of this letter- criminal complaint affidavit are to 
 
1 file a criminal complaint affidavits against Ninth circuit Senior Case Expeditor Gwen Baptiste for  
   Obstruction of Justice, 
 
2  ask why not have not yet done your job. 
 
On 4/1/98 I forwarded to you criminal complaint affidavits for proper processing. 
 
In a hand-addressed envelope stamped CONFIDENTIAL with return address 
 
              CLERK, U.S. COURT OF APPEALS 
	P.O. BOX 547 
	SAN FRANCISCO, CA 94101-0547 
 
	OFFICIAL BUSINESS 
	PENALTY FOR PRIVATE USE, 300 
 
postmarked  SAN FRANCISCO, CALIF  APR 24 98 U.S. POSTAGE $2.62 METER 504753 
some returned the complaints to me. 
 
On May 5, 1998 I received the ATTACHED letter which states 
 
  Re: Complaint of Judicial Misconduct 
 
  We have received your complaint of judicial misconduct or disability.  It is being returned to you for 
  failure to comply with the Rules of the Judicial Counsel of the Ninth Circuit Governing Complaints 
  of Judicial Misconduct or Disability (Rules).  See Rule 3(d). ... 
 
  xx_A copy of these Rules is enclosed.  To understand the purpose of the procedure and who may be 
  complained about, please refer to Rules 1 and 2. ... 
 
  xx  Statement of facts exceed five pages  See Rule 2(b). ... 
 
  xx  Other.  Please complete the complaint form and return sufficient copies.  See attached Rules for  
  guidance.   Your complaint can only be against Article Three Judges. 
 
				Very truly yours, 
 
				signature 
 
				Gwen Baptiste 
				Senior Case Expeditor 
 
Judge Hug,  I am NOT filing a COMPLAINT OF JUDICIAL MISCONDUCT. 
 
I am filing CRIMINAL COMPLAINT AFFIDAVITS in accordance with procedures set forth in law. 
 
Our forefathers designed the criminal law system with the possibility in mind that a cabal of lawyers 
might band together in an attempt to prevent prosecution of one or more friends. 
 
Therefore, if local federal officials will not do their duty and prosecute for criminal activity IN WRITING , 
then a citizen has the right to seek and select a magistrate from another district. 
 
Most individuals would interpret the letter 
 
                              U.S. Department of Justice  
                              United States Attorney  
                              District of New Mexico  
                              Post Office Box 607 
                              Albuquerque, New Mexico 87103  
                                                                 505/766 3341 
                                                                 505/766 2868 
                                                                          FAX 505/766-8517 
                              May 19, 1997  
 
 
  Mr. William A. Payne  
  13015 Calle de Sandia, NE  
  Albuquerque, New Mexico 87111  
 
  Dear Mr. Payne:  
 
     My name is Robert J. Gorence. I am the First Assistant U.S. Attorney and the Chief of the Criminal    
  Division for the United States Attorney's Office for the District of New Mexico. I am in receipt of your  
  February 13, 1997 letter to Judge Frank John McGill as well as your September 20, 1996 Request for  
  Examination of Report Filed by a Judicial Officer. In your letter to Judge McGill, you assert on 
  page 2, paragraph 4 that you have filed a "criminal complaint affidavit" with Judge Bunton. On page 4 you  
  accuse Judge Paul Kelly of a felony. On page 8 you assert that you are waiting receipt of an arrest warrant for  
  Judge Kelly.  
 
     I do not understand the basis of your assertions. However, I will tell you that any attempt by you to privately  
  execute any type of "arrest warrant," against any member of the federal judiciary would constitute a violation  
  of 18 U.S.C. § 1201 - Kidnaping, a felony which carries a potential of life imprisonment. Also, attempts on  
  your part to file private "criminal complaint affidavits" or "arrest warrants" regarding members of the federal  
  judiciary would constitute a violation of 18 U.S.C. § 111 - Impeding a Federal Officer in the 
  Performance of Their Official Duties. I trust you will take my warnings seriously and that you will cease this  
  obstreperous conduct. If you do not, federal criminal charges will be filed against you.  
 
     Sincerely,  
 
     [Signature]  
 
     ROBERT J. GORENCE  
     First Assistant U.S. Attorney  
 
RJG/maf 
 
http://www.jya.com/whprjg.htm 
 
as an indication that justice would not be forthcoming from the New Mexico District Attorney's Office. 
 
Therefore, I sought external relief. 
 
 First with Judge Fern Smith, District of Northern California  on March 11, 1996. 
 
Smith along with Albuquerque FBI agent-in-charge Thomas Knier sent FBI agents to our home to attempt to 
threaten me.  
 
Next I sought relief from  J. Clifford Wallace, chief judge,  Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals on  July 9, 1996. 
 
Wallace received a criminal complaint affidavit on Knier on July 15, 1996 for sending FBI agents in an 
attempt to threaten me. 
  
Ms. Corina Orozco,  Deputy Clerk., Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals wrote me 
 
             August 15, 1996 
 
             This court is in receipt of you letters dated July 15, 1996. 
 
             If you wish to file an appeal in this court and seek 
             judicial relief you must first file an action in the U.S. 
             District Court. 
 
NO, judge Hug, I was filing CRIMINAL COMPLAINT AFFIDAVITS. 
 
Gwen Baptiste from the Office of  the Clerk, United States Court of Appeals for The Ninth Circuit, 
wrote on July 25, 1996 
 
                  Re: Complaint of Judicial Misconduct 
 
             We have received your complaint of judicial misconduct. 
             Pursuant to the Rules of the Judicial Council of the Ninth 
             Circuit Governing Complaints of Judicial Misconduct or 
             Disability, you complaint is being returned to you for 
             compliance with the above rules.  A copy of these rules is 
             enclosed.  To understand the purpose of the procedure and 
             who may be complaint about please refer to Rules 1 and 2. 
 
AGAIN, judge Hug, I am filing CRIMINAL COMPLAINT AFFIDAVITS not COMPLAINTS OF JUDICIAL  
MISCONDUCT.   
 
Judge Hug, I hope it is FINALLY CLEAR that I am filing CRIMINAL COMPLAINT AFFIDAVITS as 
I am entitled to do by law. 
 
Judge Hug, THE DOCUMENTS YOU SHOULD HAVE IN YOUR POSSESSION and you can 
view on Internet at http://www.jya.com/snlhit.htm show 
 
1  Criminal violations of the Privacy Act http://www.jya.com/hr105-37.txt 
    ATTACHED 11 pages beginning with Sandia National Laboratories 
    director  Michael Robles writing EEOC Director Charles Burtner. 
 
    A  I never saw the documents until Sandia employee Richard Gallegos gave me a copy in 1997.  
    B  Sandia denied that the documents existed.   
    C  The documents contain factually incorrect information.  I did NOTHING WRONG.  I followed all        
         Sandia procedures known to me and obtained all required Sandia approvals.
    D  I was never given an opportunity to defend myself.  http://jya.com/greene.htm  
    E  Neither Sandia nor EEOC had my permission in writing for release  of the information.  
 
2  A ATTACHED PERJURED SWORN affidavit by Sandia attorney Gregory Cone submitted 
of the court of New Mexico judge John Conway. 
 
             AFFIDAVIT OF GREGORY A. CONE 
 
             Gregory A. Cone, being duly sworn, deposes and states: 
 
             1. I am employed by Sandia Corporation.  I am an attorney 
             admitted to practice law in the State of California and before the 
             U. S. Patent and Trademark Office and concentrate on legal issues 
             related to patent and copyright law.  In that capacity, I am  
             familiar with activities at the Sandia National Laboratories 
             ("Sandia") as they related to what is sometimes referred to as 
             "reverse engineering." ... 
 
              It is the general view at Sandia that disassembly of "object 
             code" under such circumstances constitutes a "fair use" of 
             copyrighted software under 17 U.S.C. article 107 and is thus 
             permissible.  Sandia bases its view on Sega Enterprises v. 
             Accolade, Inc. 977 F.2d 1510, 24 U.S.P. Q. 2d 1561 (9th Cir. 
             1992), amended, 1993 U. S. App. LEXIS 78, and Atari Games Corp 
             v. Nintendo of America, Inc, 975 F.2d 832 (Fed. Cir.  
             1992) ... 
 
             FURTHER, Affidavit sayeth naught. 
                                  
                                 (signed) 
                                GREGORY A. CONE. 
 
             SUBSCRIBED, SWORN TO and ACKNOWLEDGED before me on this 12th 
             day of August, 1993, by Gregory A. Cone." 
                                                 (signed) 
                                                Mary A. Resnick 
 
                                                Notary Public 
 
             My Commission Expires: 
 
             2-7-94 
 
Lawyer Cone has citations reversed.  The  U. S. Patent Quarterly references the Atari v Nintendo lawsuit.   
1510 should be corrected to 1015. 
 
Judge Fern Smith  ruled in both cases: 
 
                The first two cases to directly address the issue of 
                intermediate copying both originated in California's 
                Northern District Court.  They are Atari v. Nintendo and 
                Sega v. Accolade.  In both cases, the district court  
                found that intermediate copying was NOT fair use. ... 
  
                In a strong opinion she [Fern Smith] wrote in March 1991, 
                when granting Nintendo's request for a preliminary 
                injunction against Atari, she lambasted Atari's lawyers for 
                thievery.  ... 
 
                However, both cases have been overruled on appeal. In the 
                ground-breaking Atari decision, the Federal Circuit held 
                that intermediate copying was a fair use.  The Sega 
                decision, which was appealed to the Ninth Circuit Court of 
                Appeals, similarly overruled the district court and held 
                that intermediate copying may be fair use. 
 
        The New Use of Fair Use:  Accessing Copyrighted Programs Through  
        Reverse Engineering, Stephen B. Maebius, Journal of the Patent and  
        Trademark Office Society, June 1993, 75, n6, p433 
 
Cone's affidavit attempts to create the appearance that  reverse engineering  I REFUSED to do for the FBI was  
legal before July 27, 1992, the date of  my firing.  
 
Decision of the appeal was apparently Decided SEPTEMBER 10, 1992.  Page 1016 from 24 USPQ 2d, Atari  
Games Corp.  v. Nintendo of America.  I was fired JULY 27, 1992! 
 
Lawyer Cone has under oath knowingly made a false material declaration before a court.   
 
Judge Hug, we just can't get the arrest warrant issued for Cone YET.  Or for those who violated the criminal 
sections of the Privacy Act 
 
Judges and clerks who are apparently are reluctant to properly proceed against other federal or federal contract 
employee are themselves committing crimes. 
 
Judge Hug, there is ONE SET OF LAWS in the United States of America.  Not a set of laws which applies to 
ordinary citizens and another which apply to judges, clerks, federal and federal contract employees. 
 
Rule 3 of the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure, entitled the Complaint provides: 
 
              The complaint is a written statement of the essential  
	facts constituting the offense charged.  It shall be made  
	upon oath before a magistrate. 
 
As you may be aware, 
 
             An individual may "make a written complaint on oath before  
	an examining and committing magistrate, and obtain a warrant  
	of arrest."  This is in conformity with the Federal  
	Constitution, and "consonant with the principles of natural  
	justice and personal liberty found in the common law." 
 
        [United States v Kilpatrick (1883, DC NC) 16G 765, 769] 
 
You may also be aware, 
 
            A complaint though quite general in terms is valid if it 
            sufficiently apprises the defendant of the nature of the 
            offense with which he is charged. 
 
        [United States v Wood (1927, DC Tex) 26F2d 908, 910, affd 
        (CA5 Tex) 26 F2d 912. 
 
And for your edification, 
 
        The commission of a crime must be shown by facts positively 
        stated.  The oath or affirmation required is of facts and 
        not opinions or conclusion. 
 
        [United States ex rel. King v Gokey (1929, DC NY) 32 F2d 
        793, 794] 
 
        The complaint must be accompanied by an oath. 
 
        [Re Rules of Court (1877, CC Ga) 3 Woods 502, F Cas No 
        12126] 
 
        A complaint must be sworn to before a commissioner or other 
        officer empowered to commit persons charged with offenses 
        against the United States. 
 
        [United States v Bierley ( 1971, WD Pa) 331 F Supp 1182] 
 
Such office is now called a magistrate. 
 
        A complaint is ordinarily made by an investigating officer 
        or agent, and where private citizens seek warrants of 
        arrest, the practice recommended by the Judicial Conference 
        of the United States is to refer the complaint to the United 
        States Attorney.  However, further reference to him is 
        rendered futile where a mandamus proceeding is brought to 
        compel him to prosecute and he opposes the proceeding. 
 
        [Pugach v Klein (1961, SD NY) 193 F Supp 630, citing Manual 
        for United States Commissioners 5 (1948)] 
 
Any attempt to bring criminal complaints to government authorities  
would, of course, be as evidenced by Gorrence's letter http://www.jya.com/whprjg.htm . 
 
I am a citizen of the United States and you are the assigned  
magistrate. 
 
        In order to satisfy the requirement of the Constitution  
        and Rules 3 and 4, a written and sworn complaint should set 
        forth the essential facts constituting the offense charged 
        and also facts showing that the offense was committed and 
        that the defendant committed it. 
 
And, 
 
        As to the requirement that the complaint be made on personal 
        knowledge of the complainant, it is enough for the issuance 
        of a warrant that a complainant shows it to be on the 
        knowledge of the complainant. 
 
        [Giordenello v United States (1958) 357 US 480, 2 L Ed. 2d 
        1503, 78 S Ct 1245, rev. (Ca5 Tx) 241 F2d 575, 579 in accord 
        Rice v Ames (1901) 180 US 371, 45 L Ed 577, 21 S ct 406, and 
        United States v Walker, (1952, CA2 NY) 197 F 2d 287, 289, 
        cert den 344 US 877, 97 L Ed 679, 73 S Ct 172] 
 
So as to keep contiguous the requirements of the law and the criminal  
complaint affidavits, I will include this complaint in this letter  
to you. 
 
CRIMINAL COMPLAINT AFFIDAVIT: Gwen Baptiste 
 
Essential material facts are: 
 
1 July 25, 1996 Gwen Baptiste improperly returns criminal complaint affidavits properly forwarded to  
Ninth Circuit judge J Clifford Wallace. 
 
2 May 5, 1998  Bapitist repeats return of criminal complaint affidavits properly sent to judge Proctor Hug  Jr. 
 
COUNT 1 
 
3  Ninth circuit Senior Case Expeditor Gwen Baptiste  is charged with REPEATED INTENTIONAL  
MACLIOUS Obstruction of Justice, 18 USC 1512, (b) and (c).  
 
Title 18 Obstruction of Justice, Article  1512, as amended, states 
 
             Tampering with a witness, victim, or an informant 
 
             (b) Whoever knowingly uses intimidation ...  
	     threatens, ... or engages in misleading conduct toward  
	     another person with intent to - 
 
             (3) hinder, delay or prevent the communication to a law 
             enforcement officer or judge of the United States of 
             information relating to the commission or possible 
             commission of a Federal offense ... 
 
             (c) Whoever intentionally harasses another person and  
	     thereby hinders, delays, prevents, or dissuades any  
	     person from -  
 
             (1) reporting to a law enforcement or judge of the United 
             States the commission or possible commission of a Federal 
             offense ... 
 
             or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned ... 
				 
for Baptiste's TWO attempts to convince citizen Payne to file a judicial misconduct complaint 
when Payne was filing CRIMINAL COMPLAINT AFFIDAVITS. 
 
              VERIFICATION 
 
              Under penalty of perjury as provided by law, the  
	undersigned certifies pursuant to 28 USC section 1746  
	that material factual statements set forth in this  
	criminal complaint are true and correct, except as to  
	any matters therein stated to be information and belief  
	of such matters the undersigned certifies as aforesaid  
	that the undersigned verily believes the same to be true. 
 
 
 
 
             Date                     William H. Payne 
        			 13015 Calle de Sandias NE 
                                          Albuquerque, NM 87111 
                                          505-292-7037 
  
Judge Hug, many citizens are becoming disgusted with government misconduct.  Something must 
be done to correct this. 
 
One example is of government misconduct is how the Department of Justice handled the case of a citizen  
ACCUSED of a federal firearm violation. http://www.monumental.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum/ 
 
Displeasure with the way the government handled to bring the ACCUSED to justice led to an 
unfortunate display of dissatisfaction.  ARTICLES RELATED TO OKLAHOMA CITY BOMBING   
http://www.aci.net/kalliste/  
 
Tenth circuit court clerks and judges violated their own rules denying court wins to citizen Morales and 
myself.  Senator Orrin Hatch improperly processed a judicial misconduct complaint against New Mexico
judge John Conway. http://www.jya.com/whp071598.htm

These two acts mostly caused Morales and me AND OTHERS to reveal additional unfortunate decisions by
factions within the US government in the hope PROMPT SETTLEMENT will bring relief. 
http://www.aci.net/kalliste/speccoll.htm   http://caq.com/cryptogate  http://jya.com/whpfiles.htm   
 
We seeks changes within the law so as to avoid future citizen frustration of our government and legal system 
not working properly.   
 
And possible unacceptable, but understandable, future expressions of frustrations of government employees not  
obeying the law. 
 
WRITTEN EVIDENCE both in document copies and on Internet is so BLATANT that crimes have been  
committed. 
 
 I ask that you do you job and issue the warrants of arrest.  Or write me and tell me why you cannot. 
 
I ask that you respond within 30 days. 
 
No response is an invalid response.  As  accused felon former chief judge J Clifford Wallace may 
now know. 
 
Sincerely, 
 
 
 
William H. Payne 
13015 Calle de Sandias NE 
Albuquerque, NM 87111 
 
Distribution 
 
Antoin Scalia   http://www.jya.com/whpscalia.htm   Certified Return receipt requested 
http://www.senate.gov/committee/judiciary.html




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Meredith Balcom 
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 19:57:14 -0700 (PDT)
To: "'cypherpunks@toad.com>
Subject: FUCKIN MONKEY BUMKIN FRICASEE
Message-ID: <01BDC256.51FDB780.mbalcom@awai.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Rabid Wombat 
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 16:22:51 -0700 (PDT)
To: XoVoX123@aol.com
Subject: Re: Please help
In-Reply-To: <5257d040.35ce1c8e@aol.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~philip/meats-is-meats.html

http://www.nfinity.com/~anarky/text/jr_ckbk3.txt

The Anarchist Cookbook, by William Powell, is a 160 page book, originally 
published in 1971 by Lyle Stuart. It is currently published by
Barricade Books under ISBN 0-9623032-0-8. The "true/original" Anarchist 
Cookbook is generally not available on-line, although there are plenty of 
knock offs. BTW- the Anarchist Cookbook is full of errors and outright 
bullshit, and if you try to make explosives by following its instructions 
you will probably end up known as "lefty."  For example, the book 
explains how to make the drug "bananadine", although there is no such 
drug; the "banandine" rumor was started as a joke at Berkely back in the 
late '60's, and it appears that Powell must have taken it seriously. 
Consider the chemistry to be equally suspect.

Ordnancemarsupial



On Sun, 9 Aug 1998 XoVoX123@aol.com wrote:

> Could you please send me the Anarchy Cookbook.....
> I really want it and I cant find it anywhere!
> Thanx for your help.. Mike Jonhson
> 
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: wayne clerke 
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 12:04:31 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: RE: Is there a freeware knockoff of SSH for win95
In-Reply-To: <199808070521.HAA17085@replay.com>
Message-ID: <002901bdc236$1c6956d0$86a9aac2@strange>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I'm using the ssh32 client (updated last month) by Cedomir Igaly
(c.igaly@doc.ic.ac.uk) under win NT4 and forwarding the http  (and mail and
news) packets. It's working like a charm.

There's a recent 16bit version as well. http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/~ci2/ssh/

regards,
Mail: Wayne Clerke
PGP key id: AEB2546D  F/P: D663D11EDA19D74F5032DC7EE001B702
PGP key id: 57AA1C10  F/P: 9926BF8918B7EB3623A7 AFA46572C5B857AA1C10
PGP mail welcome.			Voice: +971 506 43 4853
If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much space.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
> [mailto:owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM]On Behalf Of Anonymous
> Sent: Friday, August 07, 1998 09:22
> To: cypherpunks@toad.com
> Subject: Is there a freeware knockoff of SSH for win95
>
>
>
> I'm looking for something to encrypt all of my web browsing while I am
> at work.  My work keeps a couple gigs devoted to a cache file in the
> proxy and I want to find a cheap way around that for my work.
> Personally paying for Fsecure SSH is not worth it just for work.
> I would be wiiling to pay for an account at cyberpass.net for their
> ssh server but the software is way too much.
>
>
> _________________________________________________________
> DO YOU YAHOO!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Friend@greatbiz.net
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 22:14:20 -0700 (PDT)
To: Friend@greatbiz.net
Subject: " COMPLETE HOME BUSINESS KIT!!"
Message-ID: <199808080511.AAA20576@www.telecommex.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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   Before I tell you how and why I make money every time you sell a report, let me show you how easy it is to advertise and sell "The Hottest Selling Report In the World" - OFS's Offshore Special Report Number 5599!.

   This report has been designed to be self-contained with all the marketing concepts on how to sell the report RIGHT INSIDE. In your copy of Report# 5599 you will have access to the following marketing strategies and tools...

   Sample of proven classified ads you can place in local or national publications that will make you FILTHY RICH!
     	
   A POWERFUL photo ready copy of a postcard you can put YOUR name & address on and have the $50.00 sent directly to you - AUTOMATICALLY.  I will show you how you can Print and Mail that Postcard - FIRST CLASS - for as little as Twelve Cents (U.S) Each!

Once you send in your Certificate of Registration from Report#5599 you will also receive...

     Additional DYNAMITE Classified and Display Ads that will generate hundreds, even thousands, of responses guaranteed to fill your mail box with $50.00 orders!

     Places to advertise for as little as seven cents (U.S.) Per word reaching over 73,000,000 People! A co-op advertising program sharing the leads and sales generated from National Television Infomercials!
     
A Photo Ready Copy of This ORDER PULLING Sales Letter for YOUR use to mail to the respondents of your ads!
     
Duplicatable Copy of an Audio Cassette Tape of this ORDER PULLING Sales Letter!
______________________________________________________________________
Become An Offshore Broker And Make More Money Than Most Dream Of Helping Others Find And Save Money! OFS's Offshore Special Report Number 5599 has a variety of money making opportunities and the "Offshore Broker" is just one of them!     
______________________________________________________________________

     I'M NOT GREEDY - I JUST LOVE WHAT MONEY      
     DOES FOR ME & MY FAMILY!     

   As the person who introduced YOU to Report# 5599 I have the opportunity to make over-rides on every Report# 5599 you sell. You see, I'm not happy JUST making $50.00 on the report I sold you. I would like to retire in the near future, sit back and receive hundreds, even thousands, of dollars a week for my past efforts of selling Report# 5599. In Report# 5599 there are additional money-making opportunities by having people establishing what are called International Business Corporations, Asset Protection Trusts(among other Offshore Business Support Services) and I can receive commissions and over-rides having people buying these services whether I personally sell them myself or you sell them through the initial sale of Report# 5599. That's why I'm interested in YOUR success. 

I want you to become a MILLIONAIRE by selling thousands of reports.

Here are a few of the additional money making opportunities contained in Report# 5599 from which I can make over-rides by becoming an "Offshore Broker"...

=> 	First, I make $50.00 on Report# 5599(I initally sold to you) in addition...
=> 	I can make up to $100 helping people set up an offshore checking account!
=> 	I can make up to $240 for every international business corporation established!
=> 	I can make up to $1,000 for every trust set up - Domestic or offshore!
=> 	I can make up to $50 for every self-liquidating loan manual sold!
=> 	I can make up to $100 for every offshore print & mail order!
=> 	I can make up to $100 for every offshore visa card established!
=> 	I can make up to $100 for everyone who receives a $15,000 Unsecured Line of 
      credit through a Major Bank Credit Card!
=> 	If I feel really energetic I can set up and run a TRUST AGENCY in my area and
      have people sell TRUSTS for me (somewhat like an Insurance  Agency)!  The
      money-making potential is tremendous by hiring several people who work in my 
      area. 

     I'm your sponsor and because of my efforts in selling YOU Report# 5599, I have the opportunity to make Lifetime Residuals from your efforts in selling Report# 5599 to others! I'm truly amazed at the marketing concept offered through OFS's Offshore Special Report Number 5599. The concept is so simple and it is COMPLETELY DUPLICATABLE! By making sure YOU MAKE thousands of dollars a week I'm going to get FILTHY STINKING RICH off your success!

     If it seems like I am BRAGGING and RUBBING it in about how I'm going to make bundles of money from your efforts it's TRUE!! You should be as EXCITED as I am because Report# 5599 allows YOU to DUPLICATE MY EFFORTS! When you sell a report to others you will then be in my position - to make ALL the over-rides and commissions I have just talked about - on those who then sell Report# 5599!
______________________________________________________________________
    The Following Questions & Answers are designed to answer most of the concerns you may have. This should give you enough information to determine if OFS's Offshore Special Report# 5599 is your tool for making thousands of dollars a week in a home based business...    
______________________________________________________________________

Q. Do I have to personally sell the report & the other offshore business support services to people who respond to my ads?

A. NO! This is really a two fold question. Let's talk about the selling of Report# 5599 first. All you have to do is place an ad, mail the postcards or send bulk email. If you place an ad send the respondent THIS SALES LETTER and let THIS SALES LETTER do the rest for you - no need to talk to anyone!! If you mail the postcards or use bulk emailing your job is done!

    The postcard will ask the respondent to send $50.00 to your mailing address. Email will work for you if you send it to as many people as you can. 

     If you decide to become an Offshore Broker and qualify to receive over-rides and commission on the Offshore Business Support Services the PARENT COMPANY will do the selling for you if you wish. This is a "NO BRAINER" and can be as simple or as complicated as you want to make it... Talk to the people if you wish or don't - Report# 5599 sells itself!

Q. How many hours a week will I have to devote to my business?

A. One to sixty hours a week! Here's a question I will answer with a question...How much money do you want to make? Common sense says the more ads you run and the more mailings you do the more money you will make! The statistics show that for every 100 responses you receive from your ads, and you mail THIS SALES LETTER, you will sell five to ten reports making you $250.00 to $500.00 (US). Your ad responses will vary depending on the place you advertise and the circulation of the publication. The more ads you run or the more emails you send out the more time you will need to devote to your Home Based Business.

Q. Just how much money will I need to start my home based business?

A. $50.00! Yeah I know - You're thinking you will need money for ads and mailing. Well - I've had people start with $50.00 (U.S) and make ten copies of the report and sold them to their associates and friends giving them $500.00(US). That gave them enough money to start running ads and to buy stamps. In looking at all the money making opportunities offered in the world today I really don't think you can get started for any less than $50.00 and have a BETTER LEGITIMATE money-making opportunity than the one offered in Report# 5599!     

Q. If I have additional questions who will answer them for me?

A. I will or the parent company will! No package of information, no matter how complete, can possibly answer every question that may come up. I do not want you to lose money seeking out the answers. I want you to succeed! You will receive a phone number in Report# 5599 where you can either reach me or someone from the parent company for any question or help you need!
______________________________________________________________________
    Here's a valuable bonus for ordering within 5 days....Your's absolutely FREE!! 
______________________________________________________________________ 

     I have persuaded the parent company - Offshore Financial Services, Ltd. - to give you their OFS Offshore Business Journal - Volume I - FREE OF CHARGE - as a bonus for ordering Report# 5599 within 5 days of receiving this email. You will receive the Journal when you send in your "Certificate of Registration" found in the report. The information in this Journal is priceless and can NOT be found anywhere but RIGHT HERE!!

Here's a sample of that information:

   Bonus #1 OFS's Offshore Business Journal

>Your IRS returns are suppose to be private - Not so!
> Funds through on-line computer services!
> Raising capital without borrowing from the bank!
> How to get medicines before they're approved by the FDA!
> Airlines will handle your baggage with special care if you know the secret!
> You can borrow money from your IRA. Just don't call it a loan
> How to get free subscriptions to over 60 magazines!
> Establish AAA credit in 30 days!
> Why Americans are mad as hell!
> Sources for quick cash loans.

    Bonus #2 Report #5599 Support Package.

> How to reach over 73,000,000 people for as little as 7 cents per word!
> How to set up voice mail and never talk to anyone who responds to your ads.
> To use or not to use a mailing list?
> How to receive free names to mail to.
> How to mail your postcards & sales flyers "First Class" for a low as 12 cents each-
   includes printing! 
> How to collect $5 from people who want to receive this sales letter!

    Bonus #3 Bulk-Emailer's Dream Package.
    
         By ordering within the next 5 days, you will also receive a floppy disk 
     packed full of online marketing tips from two of the nation's top electronic
     marketers. I have previously offered this disk for $79.95, but by purchasing 
     Report #5599 through this special offer within the next 5 days, it will be 
     yours for FREE!! I will also include another floppy disk with over 150 Hot Money
     Making reports that you can sell together or individually!
         Bulk-email has been proven to be the most effective way to market on the
     internet. By ordering within the next 5 days; I will include a program that collects
     names from aol chat rooms at a maximum rate of over 10,000 per Hour!! You will
     receive high response rates marketing to these fresh names that you have
     collected yourself.  Now all you will need is a bulk-email program, you will 
     receive a link where you can download a free fully working demonstration bulk-
     email program that will allow you to begin earning profits the day you receive my
     package.  You will not need to be concerned with losing your ISP because I will
     show you exactly how to send hundreds of thousands of emails per day while
     cloaking your ISP's mail server and your identity at the same time!!
        STOP THE PRESSES!!, I'm not finished giving away Free Extras yet! I have
     just learned of a Brand New ISP that is offering FREE ACCESS!!! That's right
     TOTALLY FREE unlimited internet access!! If your Order is received via Fax 
     within the next 24HRS I will tell you how to sign up for this free service which 
      is a $240/yr value ORDER NOW!!
        With all that I will be providing you, your success is guaranteed. You will not
     receive this offer again; by ordering Report #5599 within the next 5 days all of the
     above information will be yours for a measly US$50.00. ORDER TODAY!!
        Why am I giving away so much for so little? Good question... It is my personal
     belief that any responsible hardworking person can achieve financial security
     given the proper opportunity and information.. The Rich have kept opportunities
     and information to themselves that would allow anyone of us to achieve 
     unparalleled success easily.  That is why I am giving away a solid product, plus 
     all the information needed to successfully sell that product, for only US$50.00 
     to anyone with enough interest and patience to read this letter.


Sincerely,

YOUR SPONSOR
OFS Independent Associate

                                        RISK FREE GUARANTEE

   If you are not completely satisfied after reading Report #5599 and its Support Package simply return them both within 120 Days for a full refund. No questions asked. You keep the floppy disks, Business Journal and Dream Package. You have NOTHING to risk and a FORTUNE to make. Here's your RISK FREE opportunity to change your financial situation forever!!

{cut}==========================================================

                                     Special Report #5599 Order Form

___ Please rush me a copy of OFS's Offshore Special Report# 5599 and all Bonuses. I understand I have Full Reprint Rights and can sell Report# 5599 for $50.00 (U.S.) Keeping ALL THE MONEY!

___ I have enclosed a CHECK /MONEY ORDER for $50.00

Please mail the report to (PLEASE PRINT CLEARLY)

Your Name: _______________________________________________________________

Address: __________________________________________________________________

City: ______________________________________________________________________

State: ______ Zip: ________________

Phone: (___) ______-___________ Fax: (___) ______-___________

Email Address ___________________________

Mail This form & The check or money order for US$50.00 to the Address below:

Dynamic Communications
P.O. Box 373-356
Decatur, GA 30037-3356
Fax: (770) 234-4241
Phone: (404) 274-8669

Or, if you prefer, you may also pay by faxing your credit card information or copy of your check to the number above along with the information requested on the order form. 

Please Note: If ordering by credit card be sure to include card type, number and expiration date.  After dialing you will be prompted to press 2 for fax.

Sorry, Report #5599 is too big for us to email it to you, we will send it Priority Mail within 24 hrs of receipt of your order.     







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 16:11:59 -0700 (PDT)
To: silveri@mgmtscience.com>
Subject: Re: SecDrv and Win95
Message-ID: <199808072311.BAA15324@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Ian F. Silver wrote:
> I use Blowfish and GOST (depending on the size of the container I'm
> working with), and avoided DES, even before Deep Crack was invented.
> :-)
> 

"Deep Crack" was invented in 1993 by John Gilmore. (based on a paper at Eurocrypt '93).
It was implemented more recently.

BTW this is all in the archives in 1993. Everything was discussed in the first
12 months of cypherpunks.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: announce@inbox.nytimes.com (New York Times subscription robot)
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 00:59:36 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Welcome to The New York Times on the Web
Message-ID: <199808080848.DAA37890@inbox.nytimes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Thank you for registering for The New York Times on the Web!

The Times on the Web brings you the authority and integrity of The
New York Times, with the immediacy, utility and depth of the Internet.
You'll find the daily contents of The Times, along with news updates every
10 minutes from the Associated Press and throughout the day from New York
Times editors.

You'll also find reports and features exclusive to the Web in our
Technology and Books areas. You can explore a 365-day archive of The New
York Times for free, and download articles at a small charge.

The site also features:

== Up-to-the-minute sports scores and statistics
== Breaking stock market news and custom stock portfolios
== Current weather conditions and five-day forecasts for more than 1,500
cities
worldwide
== A free, searchable library of more than 50,000 New York Times book reviews
== A searchable database of real estate and help wanted listings
== The crossword puzzle, bridge and chess columns, available by subscription

To familiarize yourself with the site, you might want to take our guided
tour, available at http://www.nytimes.com/subscribe/help/quicktour/

Thanks again for registering. Please visit us again soon at

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Sincerely,
Rich Meislin
Editor in Chief


*****************************************


Please do not reply to this message.  If you did not authorize   
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: HyperReal-Anon 
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 21:41:43 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: FUCKIN MONKEY BUMKIN FRICASEE
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Fri, 7 Aug 1998, Meredith Balcom wrote:

> 
> 
> 

Empty space big maybe your cranium represent. Yoda I am. Forward you go.
Jedi you are not. Cypherpunk you are not. Government employee you
qualified to be.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 21:01:11 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Tim caught rehashing from Archives
Message-ID: <199808080401.GAA08821@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Tim's thoughts on the archives are all the more ironic for being rehashed
from "the good old days (TM)".

--- forwarded article -------------------------------------------------------

>From owner-cypherpunks  Thu Jan  6 16:04:33 1994
Received: by toad.com id AA03391; Thu, 6 Jan 94 16:00:13 PST
Received: by toad.com id AA03329; Thu, 6 Jan 94 15:55:35 PST
Return-Path: 
Received: from crl.crl.com ([165.113.1.12]) by toad.com id AA03317; Thu, 6 Jan 94 15:55:27 PST
Received: by crl.crl.com id AA29063
  (5.65c/IDA-1.5 for cypherpunks@toad.com); Thu, 6 Jan 1994 15:54:06 -0800
Date: Thu, 6 Jan 1994 15:44:00 -0800 (PST)
From: Arthur Chandler 
Subject: Re: cypherpolitics
To: "Perry E. Metzger" 
Cc: cypherpunks@toad.com
In-Reply-To: <199401062001.PAA20538@snark>
Message-Id: 
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Thu, 6 Jan 1994, Perry E. Metzger wrote:

> 
> Any sufficiently advanced mailing list is indistinguishable from
> noise.
> 
> Perry
> 
     I realize we're all supposed to smile knowingly at this cynical remark;
but I can't let the cynicism pass without a commentary. If the list is 
advanced, then the issues being discussed may strike newbies as arcane -- 
this is noise only to the uninitiated. And repeated threads may strike 
old-timers as rehash -- and therefore a kind of noise.  But -- at least 
as far as Cypherpunks goes -- even apparently repetitive threads have 
new slants, unforeseen shadings of personal meaning, and new contexts to 
save them from being considered as just noise.
  "The main cause of failure in education," said A.N. Whitehead, "is 
staleness." And a stale reader will hear only noise if the attention 
isn't focussed enough to see the actually new within the apparently old.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: seeall49@hotmail.com
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 04:52:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Are They Investigating You?
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


ARE YOU BEING INVESTIGATED?

Has your personal and credit information been stolen?  Has someone
assumed your identity?

Would you like to locate an old friend, relative, military buddy or sweetheart?

Do you want to find a person's assets to collect a debt or judgement?

Would you like to check a person's criminal record before renting
them space or giving them employment?

Would you like to fix up your credit bureau report, create a new
identity or even disappear?

Are you going to have surgery?  Would you like to know how many malpractice 
suits have been filed against your doctor?

Now you can learn all this plus much, much more with our 
brand new 45  page report 

"INTERNET SLEUTH"!

Learn the Internet tools and resources that are used to investigate you,
your relatives, friends, neighbors, enemies, employees or anyone else!  

We will give you thousands of Internet locations to look up people,
credit, social security, current or past employment, driving records, 
criminal records, medical information, military records, addresses,
phone numbers, immigration, divorce, labor and criminal laws!

We will also give you sources to find missing children and parents,
hazardous waste sites, how to do Freedom of Information Act information
searches, how to do skip tracing and backround checks on prospective dates, 
brides or grooms, employees, renters, vendors, new clients and competitors!

You will also learn about and where to get surveillance and spy devices,
private mail forwarding and annonymous email forwarding sites, search 
for copyrights, patents and court cases and how to make your
assets untraceable!  We will show you how to get copies of 
credit reports, adoption databases, information on drugs, 
poisons and how to get your share of government programs and benefits!

Can you find this information by using the Internet Search Engines?
The answer is MAYBE if you get lucky and if you want to spend many
hours going through 25,000 plus hits per subject!  We and our staff
have spent hundreds of hours and many thousands of dollars compiling 
this information for you!  Now you can have it on a silver platter
for LESS THAN TWENTY BUCKS during this special email promotion!

You frequently hear over the media, television, radio, the newspapers, 
how personal information is being used, traded and 
sold over the Internet...usually without your permission or knowledge. 
Our report will show you HOW IT IS DONE!!!

Would you like to find that old romantic flame...find telephone, 
address or email information on almost anyone...even unlisted
phone numbers?  How about your family "tree"?  We will teach
you how to turn years of work into hours of fun!

Military?  Check Army, Navy, Air Force and Marine records. 
extensive Vietnamese war records, MIA info, much more!

Looking for a job?  Find the job you are seeking...even in another state
or another country!  We will teach you how!

Looking for a new love interest or spouse or even sex partner? 
We will show you where to look for fast results!

Want up-to-the-minute health and medical information?  Learn how to 
cure fears and phoebias, the latest drugs and treatments for almost
any ailment or desease from the drug companies themselves as well as
from universities and the Center for Desease Control.  Want to learn
the most effective way to loose weight?  It's all here in our report!

If you believe that the information compiled  about you should be as
available to you as to the people that compile it about you without
your knowledge or permission than you must order "THE INTERNET
SLEUTH REPORT" immediately!

Our "INTERNET SLEUTH REPORT" is normally sold by direct mail for
$39.95 and will soon be in book stores for $29.95.  However, to
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10 day Email Special Offer of our Complete 45 Page Report for
only  $19.95 plus $3 for shipping and handling [total $22.95].
Sold with our 10 Day Money Back Guarantee!

This is the biggest bargain on the Internet and the information it
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$3 shipping and handling - total $22.95.  Shipped in plain wrapper
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Add $5 for priority mail delivery.  Add $20 for overnight Express!

We accept Visa, MasterCard, American Express or Discover.
We can also accept your check by phone or Fax.

You may order by phone 9 am to 10 pm [NY Time] by phoning
[718] 287-3800

You may order by fax 24 hours per day by phoning our fax line at
[718] 462-5920.
You can fax your credit card information or your check

To Email your order - DO NOT HIT REPLY ON YOUR KEYBOARD

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[Note: If you order by email and do not receive an email confirmation within
24 hours, please phone our office at 718-287-3800]


You can also order by mail by sending $22.95 cash, check, money order
or major credit card [Visa, MasterCard, American Express or Discover] to

TCPS, INC.
4718  18th Ave.  Suite 135
Brooklyn, NY 11204

Make Checks & Money Orders Payable to TCPS, Inc.
New York State Residents Please Add $1.70 for Sales Tax

The Following Order Form is for Your Convenience!
Use it by Mail, Fax or Email!
.............................................................................................................

Please ship me ________copies of the INTERNET SLEUTH Report

at $19.95 each plus $3.00 for shipping and handling [$22.95]

Credit Card #_______________________________Exp Date________

Signature______________________________________________

Ship to:  Name_________________________________________

Address________________________________________________

City________________________State___________Zip________

Area Code and Home Phone  [    ]___________________________

Fax # [     ]______________________________________________

Email Address___________________________________________

To remove your name from our mailing list, send us an email with 
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TCPS,Inc., 4718 18th Ave., Suite 135, Brooklyn, NY 11204

Office [718] 287-3800  Fax [718] 462-5920 24 hours
[9am to 10pm NY Time]

[c] Copyright 1998 TCPS, Inc. All Rights Reserved.






















































From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED/EUREKA! 
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 02:49:58 -0700 (PDT)
To: All Eureka/Stuffed Subscribers: ;
Subject: Monica Doughwinsky: An American cream come true/Woman marries herself
Message-ID: <19980808080000.24309.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Welcome to  today's  issue of Stuffed. To read it you should
click on the URL below.  If it is not made clickable by your
email program  you will need to  use your mouse to highlight
the line,  copy it and then paste it into your browser (then
press Return).

http://stuffed.net/98/8/8/

If you  have an email program that can display web pages you
will find today's front cover should have already been disp-
layed and can be clicked on to take you straight to Stuffed.

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Global Web Builders 
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 17:46:19 -0700 (PDT)
To: (Recipient list suppressed)
Subject: Pauline Hanson's One Nation - August update
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980807235951.00748d80@gwb.com.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Issue 2.1a, August 1998

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
PLEASE NOTE: No unsolicited email is sent. If you do not want to be on the
mailing list please say "REMOVE" in the subject line and return this message
in the body.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear One Nation supporter in NSW,

--------------

One Nation and media reporting:

There appears to be a discernable move by certain journalists in Australia
to look back upon the professionalism (or lack of it) of their own
profession in their reporting on Pauline Hanson and One Nation over the last
few years.

The reflective mood appears to have stemmed from the eviction of a
Queensland Times journalist and photographer from a press conference a few
weeks back for what Mrs Hanson saw as 'unbalanced' reporting by the paper in
the lead up to the Queensland State Election.

On Monday night (10th August) the ABC's Four Corners programme will be
looking at One Nation and the media. 

A book is currently being written by a well-know political commentator,
author and publisher who will be looking at the same theme. 

In relation to this subject - you might find a One Nation's members
firsthand viewpoint on the recent 60 Minutes debate between established
mainstream party representatives and One Nation members of interest:
http://www.gwb.com.au/gwb/news/onenation/60
The agreed format of the debate is clearly in dispute.

---------------

The recent Nicholas street rally in Ipswich:

The Ipswich City Council took the extreme, undemocratic step of locking Mrs
Hanson out of the Ipswich Civic Centre last week. Undaunted Mrs Hanson went
ahead with the rally to address her constituents in the seat of Oxley in the
open street.

She faced about 500 supporters and about 100 protesters in an explosive
environment which was handled, as always, with great professionalism by the
Queensland police.
Full report with pictures here:
http://www.gwb.com.au/gwb/news/onenation/nicholas

Your rights if confronted by protesters (1914 Crimes Act) are also outlined
at this link.

---------------

The One Nation Website:

This has been upgraded and is now fully searchable. There is also a new
"theme" based page to give you clues to accessing specific areas within what
has become a massive historical archive on One Nation.

See: http://www.onenation.com.au

---------------

The One Nation on-line discussion forum:

In another first One Nation MPs are now interacting directly with and taking
notes from the One Nation discussion board. Another Australian first by One
nation. You may join the participants on this moderated discussion board by
sending an email to the writer.
The discussion board can be seen at:

http://plato.itsc.adfa.edu.au/politics/

GWB



Scott Balson





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "3syute65259@sjoki.uta.fi" <3syute65259@sjoki.uta.fi>
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 11:13:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Creating Wealth in America (36370)
Message-ID: <34542.78379@mail.badchair.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Creating Wealth In America

>From the desk of Robert Allen, The Author of 2 Mega Best-Sellers,
Nothing Down and Creating Wealth in America.

San Diego, California
11:29 P.M.

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     Do you want to end your money pressures forever?
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If you answered yes, then let me show you how you can begin living your
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this year before it's too late.  I'll get right to the point.

As it says on the letterhead, my name is Robert Allen.  I'm famous for my two
#1 New 
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There 
are lots of millionaires who credit their success to one of  my books or
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when I share this secret with you, I want you to know that I've done my
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P.S.  I want to show you how to create extra streams of income quickly.
         Go to the phone and call now 1-888-572-3714.
******************************
53634




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Sea-Ex" 
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 19:35:57 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: An apology
Message-ID: <01bdc273$c6f34060$853a08d2@vognuefu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Dear Kryz
 

Thank you for your response.
 
We apologise profusely for any inconvenience 
caused by our Newsletter.  Due to a computer malfunction, a data-base was 
transferred and sent that was not intended.  We have  rectified this 
fault, and no  transmissions apart from the original ONE (1)  have 
been sent,although some servers may relay messages - again we apologise, but it 
is now out of our control. 
 
We have removed your name from ALL files, as you 
requested.
 
Regards
SEA-EX  AUSTRALIAN SEAFOOD 
EXPORTS


From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ? the Platypus {aka David Formosa} 
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 03:12:13 -0700 (PDT)
To: JBrown4330@aol.com
Subject: Re: Republicans
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On Mon, 27 Jul 1998 JBrown4330@aol.com wrote:

> Hey:  Who made up the term "Politically Correct"?  Not Christians and not
> Republicans.

In fact it was a group of British politishions who where on the
same idiological side as the Christians and the Republicans who created
the term.

[...]

> the freedom to CHOOSE to pray in schools,

Come off it, you can still pray in school.  There is nothing to stop you.
You just can't have the goverment in the form of the school encouraging
it.  I would not like my childeren being told what to think by the
goverment on an issue as senertive as religion, whould you?

- -- 
Please excuse my spelling as I suffer from agraphia see the url in my header. 
Never trust a country with more peaple then sheep.  ex-net.scum and proud
You Say To People "Throw Off Your Chains" And They Make New Chains For
Themselves? --Terry Pratchett.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3i
Charset: noconv

iQCVAwUBNcwT9KQK0ynCmdStAQEL7gP5AU2vDytNh0XQbhHgWtwMkeNuO5kYdqCz
x/rcJpLnwNobAW5T5MAAlbGst2fAD4xamt4OspOXaRLi5ozCC0p6EhoBKarpSbOx
vxCYgSPUUse459uzF+Fp3V9KCEhOrxYcIxkjylO1PsOny40zqhs20jgaMd3tGm0i
0OMh7rkYL+c=
=4D4G
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: HyperReal-Anon 
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 21:11:32 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Mysterious taglines
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Tue, 4 Aug 1998, Rabid Wombat wrote:

> I cannot discuss that here, as Tim May will likely enter the discussion 
> to enforce his intellectual property rights and remind us that he 
> discussed this before the rest of us were born. All worthwhile 
> discussions of cryptography were held prior to 1994. This list is to be 
> henceforth used for the posting of long rambling prose induced by the 
> inhaling of household chemicals. Contact sniffmonger toto, check the 
> archives, and bring me another scotch.

Or if trolls are more your style, contact trollmonger bill(sic) payne(sic)
and carbon copy half of Congress.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED/EUREKA! 
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 02:48:11 -0700 (PDT)
To: All Eureka/Stuffed Subscribers: ;
Subject: What if men menstruated?/Viagra - the facts
Message-ID: <19980809080000.26159.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Welcome to  today's  issue of Stuffed. To read it you should
click on the URL below.  If it is not made clickable by your
email program  you will need to  use your mouse to highlight
the line,  copy it and then paste it into your browser (then
press Return).

http://stuffed.net/98/8/9/

If you  have an email program that can display web pages you
will find today's front cover should have already been disp-
layed and can be clicked on to take you straight to Stuffed.

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Rabid Wombat 
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 07:44:14 -0700 (PDT)
To: Reeza! 
Subject: Re: I'm from the government, and I'm here to control your email....
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980810230615.00924100@205.83.192.13>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




On Mon, 10 Aug 1998, Reeza! wrote:

> At 02:24 PM 8/10/98 -0500, William H. Geiger III wrote:
> >
> >Many of the unusual suspects that will go along with this plan will be
> >from the states like Alaska, Idaho, North Dakota, ...ect who are fearful
> >that their constituents will actually have to pay a fair price to have
> >mail and packages delivered to bum-fuck nowhere. I don't recall the name
> >but one of the critter from Alaska was very upset that if USPS looses it's
> >monopoly delivery in Alaska would no longer be subsidized and that they
> >might have to pay market value to have packages delivered by plane to the
> >far reaches of the wilderness (god forbid!!).
> >
> 
> Where are you from?
> Bum-fuck nowhere to you and bum-fuck nowhere to me are two different places.
> 
> A letter costs 32 cents (presently) whether you send it across town, or
> across the country.
> This knife cuts both ways. Once the precedent is set, other industries
> would quickly join in.
> How long would it take, do you think, until some whizbang at the electric
> company decides 'lectric usage rates should be determined on distance from
> the 'lectric generating plant?
> 
> Reeza!

This is how it works in a free-market economy (doh!).

One of the self-appointed/assumed functions of gubbmint is to "fix" this, 
by granting some organization a monopoly in return for bearing the costs 
of creating infrastructure, as well as spreading the cost of servicing a 
(smaller) number of remote customers across a (larger) number of 
non-remote customers.

Whether this is a good thing(tm) or a bad thing(tm) depends, as usual, on 
which side of the subsidy you are on.

I would argue that such monopolies are desirable, and that their creation 
is a proper function of a responsible government. When the monopoly is no 
longer necessary (sufficient economy of scale has been reached to permit 
a competitive market to adequately service the customer base), then 
deregulation can occur.

I'm sure some on this list will argue this with me from their mountain 
cabins in bf-nowhere, but without such monopolies, they'd be sending 
smoke signals rather than paying $10,000 to get a phone line installed to 
their home. If you doubt this, look at the heavy reliance on wireless 
communications in third-world countries, and take a moment to consider 
how recently the consumer-wireless market arrived on the scene. 

Before you argue "the best government is no government", visit a few 
third-world capitols, and note how you move from a modern capitol city to 
flintstones-like living in about 50km.

A $.32 price on first-class mail to anywhere in the country is a good 
deal for all. OTOH, package delivery has become sufficiently competitive, 
and probably needs to be revamped.

Just my $.02.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: phusnikn 
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 07:39:21 -0700 (PDT)
To: clerke@emirates.net.ae
Subject: Re: Is there a freeware knockoff of SSH for win95
In-Reply-To: <002901bdc236$1c6956d0$86a9aac2@strange>
Message-ID: <35CDB52E.C81B5637@simlab.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


How do i get off this mailing list? cybertoads/cyberpunks of what ever it
is.??





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: EpicTeU@aol.com
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 11:49:41 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: .
Message-ID: <64d5a71.35cdef20@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: CyberPsychotic 
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 03:29:30 -0700 (PDT)
To: Bill Stewart 
Subject: Re: text analysis
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980806202007.0090e140@popd.ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


yeah. So far I played with it, I found out that allocating arrays in
memory as N-dimentional matrix seem to be the best solution. The rest of
things seem to be pathetically slow. I generally do all my coding under
Linux so there's no problem with memory limits. Thanks again for all help.

F.
---
Fyodor Yarochkin	tel:[996-3312] 474465		email:fygrave@usa.net
http://www.kalug.lug.net/		    X-Noizz http://infernus.online.kg
echo 'subscribe kalug' | mail majordomo@krsu.edu.kg  :  join Kyrgyztani L.U.G.
- "Only Schizophrenia beats being alone." -  http://www.kalug.lug.net/fygrave





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: XoVoX123@aol.com
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 15:03:28 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Please help
Message-ID: <5257d040.35ce1c8e@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Could you please send me the Anarchy Cookbook.....
I really want it and I cant find it anywhere!
Thanx for your help.. Mike Jonhson




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: avatar@yahoo.com
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 18:33:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Send Your Own Mass E-Mail..Learn How
Message-ID: <199808100129.SAA21378@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


You can profit from junk e-mail. If your computer is sitting idle while you're at work or play...you're crazy! 
You could be earning money while you're asleep, at work or out having fun. You can make incredible 
money sending your own mass e-mails. If you own your own business or have a product or idea to sell , 
then you probably know that all advertising works..it's just a question of whether it's cost effective or not. 
What could be more cost effective than a ZERO cost of adverising? If you sent out 500,000 e-mails which 
would take you only a few minutes to set your computer up to do and you only recieved one half of one 
percent response..that would be 2500 people responding to your ad. And the cost to do it was NOTHING. 
Junk e-mail is here to stay, so wouldn't it be nice to laugh every time you receive a piece of junk e-mail from 
someone because you know for every one you receive, you're sending out hundreds of  thousands. If 
your computer is sitting idle while you're at work or play...you're crazy! You could be earning money while 
you're asleep, at work or out having fun. It's not like you have to sit there and watch it run!
     So why isn't every one doing it? Well your local internet service provider spent lots of money installing 
filtering equipment to keep out this so-called junk e-mail and, in fact, for years there's been sort of a fun 
little war going on between the junk e-mail software writers and the internet serrvice provider filter 
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      AVATAR Publishing is offering you the type of expertise and support that would take you years to 
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    If you would like to stop having your computer sit idle while you're at work or asleep and start having it 
make money for you  .....  

			 Send $29  to:	AVATAR Publishing
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					Pasadena,Ca.91106
                                                                          
					- OR -

			Order by Phone:	(626) 792-1764

To be removed from our e-mail list, submit your e-mail address to avatar502@yahoo.com






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: jane@hotmail.com
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 16:54:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: TIME FOR A FUCK
Message-ID: <199808092354.TAA03272@alpha.cyberplex.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Dildo in her pussy, finger in her ass!

Can you smell her wet teen pussy?

She's sooo tight, so young, so clean, so innocent! Can you smell her wet
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 11:46:40 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Is there a freeware knockoff
Message-ID: <199808091846.UAA22055@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Sunday, 09 Aug 1998 at 14:41:50 +0000, phusnikn  revealed the depths of his ignorance by writing:

> To:            clerke@emirates.net.ae
> Copies to:     cypherpunks@toad.com
> Subject:       Re: Is there a freeware knockoff of SSH for win95
> 
> How do i get off this mailing list? cybertoads/cyberpunks 
> of what ever it is.??

Oh, man! That's what I want to know! How do _you_ get off
this mailing list? The question of the day, isn't it? Anyone
who uses "cyber" in near proximity to "punks" is automatically
disqualified from being on this list. So how did you slip in
here? You're here, but unfortunately getting off/out is not
so easy. I could suggest that you withdraw all your savings
and buy a clue, but that would obviously be futile in your
case.

You should probably contemplate your navel and how you got 
_onto_ the list, for oh, say, three hours. If enlightenment 
doesn't come, you might try eating a handful of castor beans. 
I've heard that aids digestion. Not yours, of course, but it
will no doubt ease the pains of the rest of the list
members.

If you're still troubled by list membership after that, you
might try the old tried and true solution for undesired list
problems: shoot yourself in the head.

If that doesn't work, try a larger caliber.

If that doesn't work, try loading the gun first.

HelpfulListInfoMonger II





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: refinow@mail.wxs.nl
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 22:04:23 -0700 (PDT)
To: sbraum@mail.cs.net
Subject: $$Homeowners$$
Message-ID: <287821953782.PDR72593@mail.wxs.nl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


*********************************
This message complies with the proposed United States Federal
requirements for commercial email as well as the Washington State
Commercial Email Bill. For additional information see:
http://www.senate.gov/~murkowski/commercialemail/EMailAmendText.html
Washington State Commercial Email Bill:
http://www.wa.gov/wwweb/AGO/junkemail/
Required Sender Information:
American Capital
Ft. Thomas, KY 41075
drichards73@hotmail.com
1-212-796-6549

Further mailings to you may be stopped at no cost to you by sending a
reply to: remove@remove-list.com
********************************



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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: maree19@kola.dcu.ie (grynomu)
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 05:11:04 -0700 (PDT)
To: maree19@kola.dcu.ie
Subject: direct-email-secrets & stumbling blocks
Message-ID: <199808092170RAA37702@gasuvo.crol.jkans.kais.kyoto-u.ac.jp>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Rabid Wombat 
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 17:53:51 -0700 (PDT)
To: tzeruch@ceddec.com
Subject: [off topic] Re: I'm from the government, and I'm here to control , your email....
In-Reply-To: <98Aug11.125642edt.43010@brickwall.ceddec.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




On Tue, 11 Aug 1998 dontspam-tzeruch@ceddec.com wrote:

> On Sun, 9 Aug 1998, Rabid Wombat wrote:
> 
> > This is how it works in a free-market economy (doh!).
> > 
> > One of the self-appointed/assumed functions of gubbmint is to "fix" this, 
> > by granting some organization a monopoly in return for bearing the costs 
> > of creating infrastructure, as well as spreading the cost of servicing a 
> > (smaller) number of remote customers across a (larger) number of 
> > non-remote customers.
> > 
> > Whether this is a good thing(tm) or a bad thing(tm) depends, as usual, on 
> > which side of the subsidy you are on.
> 
> No, it can still be a bad thing even if I am the beneficiary.  The
> question is whether or not it maximizes efficiency.  A stock market crash
> will benefit the short sellers and owners of puts.  But it will also cause
> a depression, which will still affect the short sellers.

Yes, it can be a bad thing no matter which side you are on. Many 
subsidies are merely re-allocation of wealth, often from the rich to the 
poor. OTOH, some services, although not essential, are important enough 
to warrant a limited, regulated monopoly until sufficent scale has been 
reached to allow a competetive marketplace to be successful.

> There is a cross-subsidy.  The monopoly then pays the government to
> maintain the monopoly indefinately using government force to drive out
> competition.  Being able to legally imprison or shoot competitors is an
> advantage that is hard to overcome. 

Every organism seeks to propogate. It is the responsibility of the people 
to kill the monopoly when it has outlived its usefulness.

> Alaska tends to be cold.  Should heat and other forms of energy be
> subsidized, and roads built to wherever I want to place my cabin?  Arizona
> is dry - should they get subsidized water?

They do. What's your point? That this is unfair? Of course it is. Life is 
unfair. Some of these unfair subsidies by not be equitable in the short 
run, but in the long run, everybody comes out ahead. Others simply 
re-distribute wealth, to no long-term socialo benefit whatsoever. The 
difference between the two comes down to managing resources.

Some enterprises have traditionally been beyond the scale of the private 
sector, although that is really no longer the case. The US flourished due 
to the success of the railroad building in the late 1800's, and this 
success would not have been possible without a great deal of public 
assistance. True, the rich got richer, but in the long run, a more 
competitive marketplace evolved. The common person was, as a result, 
better off (at least from an economic perspective).

Eventually, the highway systems were government-subsidized, and the 
railroads were not. This helped GM and its shareholders to get rich, 
provided a lot of post-WWII manufacturing jobs, and created huge 
traffic problems and suburban sprawl. See post-WWII Los Angles as a 
reference.

> Why is distance different than any other factor.  If I want to live in a
> remote area, I should bear the costs of the remoteness, just as if I want
> to live near a river, I will have to bear the costs of flood control or
> damage from uncontrolled floods.  I don't have to live in a mountain
> cabin, but if I do there will be costs.

The government provides flood insurance for those who continue to build in
flood plains, and those of us who live on high ground continue to
subsidize this. I live on high ground, and peronally feel that providing
flood insurance to an area that washes out every 5-10 years is stupid. 
OTOH, it might be useful to provide such insurance for areas that only
wash out every 40-50 years. Where do you draw the line?  BTW- The
government funds "water-control" projects as well, subsidizing the
delivery of water to rural areas. Distance is just another cost factor,
one that happens to be pertinent to the process of delivering packages. 


> 
> The largest delay for consumer wireless has been government regulation
> itself - not allowing efficient use of bandwidth.  (I think the first cell
> phone was 1979).  And there was a CB craze, although it had limited range.
> The big wait was for the FCC to catch up with technology (or for congress 
> to allow them to do so).

This was only partially due to frequency regulation. Miniturization has 
had a lot to do with the recent growth in wireless as well. Back when 
cellular phones were the size of a small purse, they were slow to catch 
on; people who spent a good deal of time in their cars, or those whose 
employers subsidised status symbols had car phones, but growth was still 
fairly slow. Once the hand-helds appeared, growth accelerated. There had 
to be enough consumers to support the cost of adding infrastructure, and 
there had to be enough infrastructure to support the consumer; some 
industries can pull this off without outside help, and some cannot.

BTW - Australian cattle stations used radios as their primary link to the 
outside world for quite a while, due to their rural location; the same 
held true for many other "remote" corners of the globe. Not a very 
scalable solution, though. Try using a CB in a built-up area. Then 
imagine everyone getting home on Thursday after a long day at work, and 
trying to order pizza delivery at the same time on a CB in that same area.


> 
> > Before you argue "the best government is no government", visit a few 
> > third-world capitols, and note how you move from a modern capitol city to 
> > flintstones-like living in about 50km.
> 
> Many third world governments are thoroughly corrupt.  Across the border in
> Mexico they have "Government" - are you saying that Mexico City is better
> than Wyoming?  And the small villages have government even if they don't
> have technology.

My point is that many areas of the world have not invested in deploying
technology very far beynd the boundaries of a few "modern" cities. 
Without getting into an even longer rant here, the end result is to
perpetuate the cycle of rural poverty (look into some of the studies of
third-world economic development - distribution of technology and services
is often cited as a critical success factor). Those who do escape to the
city and manage to attain a higher socio-economic status remain there. The
bulk of those born to poverty have no hope of climbing out of it. 

In many countries, (including Mexico, since you mentioned it), delivering
telephone service to rural areas without wireless technology was not even
possible; the locals pull down the telephone (and power) wires to steal
the copper for re-sale. 

Basically, some groups just haven't managed to pull off effective 
self-government; in the long run, you get the form of government you deserve.
If you are too damn self-interested to see anything in terms of the 
common good, you'll probably end up with a self-interested government. 
Call it corrupt if you wish to, for it is, but don't confuse cause and 
effect.

> 
> > A $.32 price on first-class mail to anywhere in the country is a good 
> > deal for all. OTOH, package delivery has become sufficiently competitive, 
> > and probably needs to be revamped.
> 
> Generally wealthier people can afford to live in the remote areas, and can
> afford alternatives to first class mail.  Poor people rely on first class
> mail within cities to do much of their business, and that is mainly local. 
> So you have another case of the poor subsidizing the rich. 

I'm not sure where you've been, but not everybody who lives in a rural 
area is wealthy; this only occurs in places where space is at a premium, 
and only the wealthy can afford to purchase space. There are plenty of 
rural people who are dependant on first class postage to pay their bills, 
and they can't simply walk over to the corner grocer/food stamp 
launderer/check cashing/utlity bill collector to take care of business 
the way they can down on da block.

> 
> > Just my $.02.
> 
> No, your $0.32, soon to be more.
> 

At twice that, it is still a bargain, when you consider what you're 
getting for your money.

Actually, a good portion of the costs of first class delivery are 
subsidized by commercial bulk mailers, who are in turn supported by those 
who purchase goods and services found in direct mail advertisements. I 
suppose that you could even draw the conclusion that if one can afford to 
purchase goods, one is better off that one who cannot, and therefore the 
"haves", by subsidizing bulk mail, are bearing a share of the cost of 
first class delivery used by the "have nots."

Of course, we could argue economics for months - if you don't like the 
results, just change the assumptions.

-r.w.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: jcb@mylaptop.com
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 09:10:23 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Sorry for the delay
Message-ID: <199808091609.BAA00017@ns2.daio-paper.co.jp>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hi,

This is the information you requested
http://internetmarketing.com.tj/

John





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: MariePhillips@counternet.com.centralnet.ch
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 00:40:30 -0700 (PDT)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: Marie Phillips
Message-ID: <199808100736.HAA18423@centralnet.ch>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tina&Rob@aladin.escp.fr
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 15:38:23 -0700 (PDT)
To: Tina&Rob@aladin.escp.fr
Subject: `
Message-ID: <199808092237.HAA14161@da4002.airex.co.jp>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 07:04:08 -0700 (PDT)
To: newyork@fbi.gov
Subject: George Santyana & Great Satan
Message-ID: <35CEFCB6.2FEA@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Monday 8/10/98 6:58 AM

J Orlin Grabbe  http://www.aci.net/kalliste/
John Young  http://www.jya.com/crypto.htm

We must be cautious when doing battle with the Great Fascist Satan.

The Great Satan is capable of doing some REALLY TERRIBLE things.

For example,

  It's estimated 100,000 people died at Hiroshima on August 6, 1945. 
Seventy-
  five hours later, another 74,000 were killed a Nagasaki.  But these
figures
  only include  those who perished in the initial blasts.  Many more
people died soon 
  afterward from radiation sickness, and other would die years later
from leukemia,       pernicious anemia, and other radiation-related
diseases. Current estimates calculate the     total number deaths so far
from the two blasts at more than 340,000 people.

page 68

  Five days after Nagasaki was bombed, Japan submitted to the
unconditional surrender that     America was insisting on.  America's
conventional bombing of Japan continued right up until   surrender was
finalized, killing more than 15,000 people after the Nagasaki bombing.

page 70

  Weird History 101
  John Richard Stephens / Paperback / Published 1997

Then, of course, other unfortunate US government FACTION decisions have
surfaced. http://www.aci.net/kalliste/speccoll.htm
http://caq.com/cryptogate

Discovery of which involved the MfS

  Spymaster : The Real-Life 'Karla,' His Moles, and the East German
Secret Police 
  Leslie Colitt / Hardcover / Published 1995

We must recall the sequence of events in view of the tragic bombing in
Africa on Friday.

  1  bombing of the La Belle disco
  2  retaliatory bombing of Libya
  3  Pan Am 103

"Those who cannot remember the past are doomed to repeat it."
                                        -- George Santyana, 1905

http://rickohio.com/mag/articles/monica.htm

What has changed over time since the start of the La Belle sequence is
that the balance of high tech technology advantage has shifted to the
terrorists.  Cheap PCs, Internet, international electronic and software
knowledge, foreign undergraduate and graduate school training in the
US,  12 years of compulsory English in many foreign schools, ...

I am not very happy about NSA/Sandia TRYING to get me involved in their
FBI and NSA SECRET/NSI work.  I want my money and out of their messes.

I am going to push the Privacy Act criminal violation HARD.

Let's hope for settlement before things get WORSE.

Later 
bill


Friday 8/7/98  7:30 AM
 
Certified   Return receipt requested 
 
Proctor Hug  Jr 
Chief Judge, Ninth Circuit 
50 West Liberty Street 
Reno, NV 89501-1948 
(702) 784-5631 
784-5166 fax 
 
Dear judge Hug: 
 
Purposes of this letter- criminal complaint affidavit are to 
 
1 file a criminal complaint affidavits against Ninth circuit Senior Case Expeditor Gwen Baptiste for  
   Obstruction of Justice, 
 
2  ask why not have not yet done your job. 
 
On 4/1/98 I forwarded to you criminal complaint affidavits for proper processing. 
 
In a hand-addressed envelope stamped CONFIDENTIAL with return address 
 
              CLERK, U.S. COURT OF APPEALS 
	P.O. BOX 547 
	SAN FRANCISCO, CA 94101-0547 
 
	OFFICIAL BUSINESS 
	PENALTY FOR PRIVATE USE, 300 
 
postmarked  SAN FRANCISCO, CALIF  APR 24 98 U.S. POSTAGE $2.62 METER 504753 
some returned the complaints to me. 
 
On May 5, 1998 I received the ATTACHED letter which states 
 
  Re: Complaint of Judicial Misconduct 
 
  We have received your complaint of judicial misconduct or disability.  It is being returned to you for 
  failure to comply with the Rules of the Judicial Counsel of the Ninth Circuit Governing Complaints 
  of Judicial Misconduct or Disability (Rules).  See Rule 3(d). ... 
 
  xx_A copy of these Rules is enclosed.  To understand the purpose of the procedure and who may be 
  complained about, please refer to Rules 1 and 2. ... 
 
  xx  Statement of facts exceed five pages  See Rule 2(b). ... 
 
  xx  Other.  Please complete the complaint form and return sufficient copies.  See attached Rules for  
  guidance.   Your complaint can only be against Article Three Judges. 
 
				Very truly yours, 
 
				signature 
 
				Gwen Baptiste 
				Senior Case Expeditor 
 
Judge Hug,  I am NOT filing a COMPLAINT OF JUDICIAL MISCONDUCT. 
 
I am filing CRIMINAL COMPLAINT AFFIDAVITS in accordance with procedures set forth in law. 
 
Our forefathers designed the criminal law system with the possibility in mind that a cabal of lawyers 
might band together in an attempt to prevent prosecution of one or more friends. 
 
Therefore, if local federal officials will not do their duty and prosecute for criminal activity IN WRITING , 
then a citizen has the right to seek and select a magistrate from another district. 
 
Most individuals would interpret the letter 
 
                              U.S. Department of Justice  
                              United States Attorney  
                              District of New Mexico  
                              Post Office Box 607 
                              Albuquerque, New Mexico 87103  
                                                                 505/766 3341 
                                                                 505/766 2868 
                                                                          FAX 505/766-8517 
                              May 19, 1997  
 
 
  Mr. William A. Payne  
  13015 Calle de Sandia, NE  
  Albuquerque, New Mexico 87111  
 
  Dear Mr. Payne:  
 
     My name is Robert J. Gorence. I am the First Assistant U.S. Attorney and the Chief of the Criminal    
  Division for the United States Attorney's Office for the District of New Mexico. I am in receipt of your  
  February 13, 1997 letter to Judge Frank John McGill as well as your September 20, 1996 Request for  
  Examination of Report Filed by a Judicial Officer. In your letter to Judge McGill, you assert on 
  page 2, paragraph 4 that you have filed a "criminal complaint affidavit" with Judge Bunton. On page 4 you  
  accuse Judge Paul Kelly of a felony. On page 8 you assert that you are waiting receipt of an arrest warrant for  
  Judge Kelly.  
 
     I do not understand the basis of your assertions. However, I will tell you that any attempt by you to privately  
  execute any type of "arrest warrant," against any member of the federal judiciary would constitute a violation  
  of 18 U.S.C. § 1201 - Kidnaping, a felony which carries a potential of life imprisonment. Also, attempts on  
  your part to file private "criminal complaint affidavits" or "arrest warrants" regarding members of the federal  
  judiciary would constitute a violation of 18 U.S.C. § 111 - Impeding a Federal Officer in the 
  Performance of Their Official Duties. I trust you will take my warnings seriously and that you will cease this  
  obstreperous conduct. If you do not, federal criminal charges will be filed against you.  
 
     Sincerely,  
 
     [Signature]  
 
     ROBERT J. GORENCE  
     First Assistant U.S. Attorney  
 
RJG/maf 
 
http://www.jya.com/whprjg.htm 
 
as an indication that justice would not be forthcoming from the New Mexico District Attorney's Office. 
 
Therefore, I sought external relief. 
 
 First with Judge Fern Smith, District of Northern California  on March 11, 1996. 
 
Smith along with Albuquerque FBI agent-in-charge Thomas Knier sent FBI agents to our home to attempt to 
threaten me.  
 
Next I sought relief from  J. Clifford Wallace, chief judge,  Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals on  July 9, 1996. 
 
Wallace received a criminal complaint affidavit on Knier on July 15, 1996 for sending FBI agents in an 
attempt to threaten me. 
  
Ms. Corina Orozco,  Deputy Clerk., Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals wrote me 
 
             August 15, 1996 
 
             This court is in receipt of you letters dated July 15, 1996. 
 
             If you wish to file an appeal in this court and seek 
             judicial relief you must first file an action in the U.S. 
             District Court. 
 
NO, judge Hug, I was filing CRIMINAL COMPLAINT AFFIDAVITS. 
 
Gwen Baptiste from the Office of  the Clerk, United States Court of Appeals for The Ninth Circuit, 
wrote on July 25, 1996 
 
                  Re: Complaint of Judicial Misconduct 
 
             We have received your complaint of judicial misconduct. 
             Pursuant to the Rules of the Judicial Council of the Ninth 
             Circuit Governing Complaints of Judicial Misconduct or 
             Disability, you complaint is being returned to you for 
             compliance with the above rules.  A copy of these rules is 
             enclosed.  To understand the purpose of the procedure and 
             who may be complaint about please refer to Rules 1 and 2. 
 
AGAIN, judge Hug, I am filing CRIMINAL COMPLAINT AFFIDAVITS not COMPLAINTS OF JUDICIAL  
MISCONDUCT.   
 
Judge Hug, I hope it is FINALLY CLEAR that I am filing CRIMINAL COMPLAINT AFFIDAVITS as 
I am entitled to do by law. 
 
Judge Hug, THE DOCUMENTS YOU SHOULD HAVE IN YOUR POSSESSION and you can 
view on Internet at http://www.jya.com/snlhit.htm show 
 
1  Criminal violations of the Privacy Act http://www.jya.com/hr105-37.txt 
    ATTACHED 11 pages beginning with Sandia National Laboratories 
    director  Michael Robles writing EEOC Director Charles Burtner. 
 
    A  I never saw the documents until Sandia employee Richard Gallegos gave me a copy in 1997.  
    B  Sandia denied that the documents existed.   
    C  The documents contain factually incorrect information.  I did NOTHING WRONG.  I followed all        
         Sandia procedures known to me and obtained all required Sandia approvals.
    D  I was never given an opportunity to defend myself.  http://jya.com/greene.htm  
    E  Neither Sandia nor EEOC had my permission in writing for release  of the information.  
 
2  A ATTACHED PERJURED SWORN affidavit by Sandia attorney Gregory Cone submitted 
of the court of New Mexico judge John Conway. 
 
             AFFIDAVIT OF GREGORY A. CONE 
 
             Gregory A. Cone, being duly sworn, deposes and states: 
 
             1. I am employed by Sandia Corporation.  I am an attorney 
             admitted to practice law in the State of California and before the 
             U. S. Patent and Trademark Office and concentrate on legal issues 
             related to patent and copyright law.  In that capacity, I am  
             familiar with activities at the Sandia National Laboratories 
             ("Sandia") as they related to what is sometimes referred to as 
             "reverse engineering." ... 
 
              It is the general view at Sandia that disassembly of "object 
             code" under such circumstances constitutes a "fair use" of 
             copyrighted software under 17 U.S.C. article 107 and is thus 
             permissible.  Sandia bases its view on Sega Enterprises v. 
             Accolade, Inc. 977 F.2d 1510, 24 U.S.P. Q. 2d 1561 (9th Cir. 
             1992), amended, 1993 U. S. App. LEXIS 78, and Atari Games Corp 
             v. Nintendo of America, Inc, 975 F.2d 832 (Fed. Cir.  
             1992) ... 
 
             FURTHER, Affidavit sayeth naught. 
                                  
                                 (signed) 
                                GREGORY A. CONE. 
 
             SUBSCRIBED, SWORN TO and ACKNOWLEDGED before me on this 12th 
             day of August, 1993, by Gregory A. Cone." 
                                                 (signed) 
                                                Mary A. Resnick 
 
                                                Notary Public 
 
             My Commission Expires: 
 
             2-7-94 
 
Lawyer Cone has citations reversed.  The  U. S. Patent Quarterly references the Atari v Nintendo lawsuit.   
1510 should be corrected to 1015. 
 
Judge Fern Smith  ruled in both cases: 
 
                The first two cases to directly address the issue of 
                intermediate copying both originated in California's 
                Northern District Court.  They are Atari v. Nintendo and 
                Sega v. Accolade.  In both cases, the district court  
                found that intermediate copying was NOT fair use. ... 
  
                In a strong opinion she [Fern Smith] wrote in March 1991, 
                when granting Nintendo's request for a preliminary 
                injunction against Atari, she lambasted Atari's lawyers for 
                thievery.  ... 
 
                However, both cases have been overruled on appeal. In the 
                ground-breaking Atari decision, the Federal Circuit held 
                that intermediate copying was a fair use.  The Sega 
                decision, which was appealed to the Ninth Circuit Court of 
                Appeals, similarly overruled the district court and held 
                that intermediate copying may be fair use. 
 
        The New Use of Fair Use:  Accessing Copyrighted Programs Through  
        Reverse Engineering, Stephen B. Maebius, Journal of the Patent and  
        Trademark Office Society, June 1993, 75, n6, p433 
 
Cone's affidavit attempts to create the appearance that  reverse engineering  I REFUSED to do for the FBI was  
legal before July 27, 1992, the date of  my firing.  
 
Decision of the appeal was apparently Decided SEPTEMBER 10, 1992.  Page 1016 from 24 USPQ 2d, Atari  
Games Corp.  v. Nintendo of America.  I was fired JULY 27, 1992! 
 
Lawyer Cone has under oath knowingly made a false material declaration before a court.   
 
Judge Hug, we just can't get the arrest warrant issued for Cone YET.  Or for those who violated the criminal 
sections of the Privacy Act 
 
Judges and clerks who are apparently are reluctant to properly proceed against other federal or federal contract 
employee are themselves committing crimes. 
 
Judge Hug, there is ONE SET OF LAWS in the United States of America.  Not a set of laws which applies to 
ordinary citizens and another which apply to judges, clerks, federal and federal contract employees. 
 
Rule 3 of the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure, entitled the Complaint provides: 
 
              The complaint is a written statement of the essential  
	facts constituting the offense charged.  It shall be made  
	upon oath before a magistrate. 
 
As you may be aware, 
 
             An individual may "make a written complaint on oath before  
	an examining and committing magistrate, and obtain a warrant  
	of arrest."  This is in conformity with the Federal  
	Constitution, and "consonant with the principles of natural  
	justice and personal liberty found in the common law." 
 
        [United States v Kilpatrick (1883, DC NC) 16G 765, 769] 
 
You may also be aware, 
 
            A complaint though quite general in terms is valid if it 
            sufficiently apprises the defendant of the nature of the 
            offense with which he is charged. 
 
        [United States v Wood (1927, DC Tex) 26F2d 908, 910, affd 
        (CA5 Tex) 26 F2d 912. 
 
And for your edification, 
 
        The commission of a crime must be shown by facts positively 
        stated.  The oath or affirmation required is of facts and 
        not opinions or conclusion. 
 
        [United States ex rel. King v Gokey (1929, DC NY) 32 F2d 
        793, 794] 
 
        The complaint must be accompanied by an oath. 
 
        [Re Rules of Court (1877, CC Ga) 3 Woods 502, F Cas No 
        12126] 
 
        A complaint must be sworn to before a commissioner or other 
        officer empowered to commit persons charged with offenses 
        against the United States. 
 
        [United States v Bierley ( 1971, WD Pa) 331 F Supp 1182] 
 
Such office is now called a magistrate. 
 
        A complaint is ordinarily made by an investigating officer 
        or agent, and where private citizens seek warrants of 
        arrest, the practice recommended by the Judicial Conference 
        of the United States is to refer the complaint to the United 
        States Attorney.  However, further reference to him is 
        rendered futile where a mandamus proceeding is brought to 
        compel him to prosecute and he opposes the proceeding. 
 
        [Pugach v Klein (1961, SD NY) 193 F Supp 630, citing Manual 
        for United States Commissioners 5 (1948)] 
 
Any attempt to bring criminal complaints to government authorities  
would, of course, be as evidenced by Gorrence's letter http://www.jya.com/whprjg.htm . 
 
I am a citizen of the United States and you are the assigned  
magistrate. 
 
        In order to satisfy the requirement of the Constitution  
        and Rules 3 and 4, a written and sworn complaint should set 
        forth the essential facts constituting the offense charged 
        and also facts showing that the offense was committed and 
        that the defendant committed it. 
 
And, 
 
        As to the requirement that the complaint be made on personal 
        knowledge of the complainant, it is enough for the issuance 
        of a warrant that a complainant shows it to be on the 
        knowledge of the complainant. 
 
        [Giordenello v United States (1958) 357 US 480, 2 L Ed. 2d 
        1503, 78 S Ct 1245, rev. (Ca5 Tx) 241 F2d 575, 579 in accord 
        Rice v Ames (1901) 180 US 371, 45 L Ed 577, 21 S ct 406, and 
        United States v Walker, (1952, CA2 NY) 197 F 2d 287, 289, 
        cert den 344 US 877, 97 L Ed 679, 73 S Ct 172] 
 
So as to keep contiguous the requirements of the law and the criminal  
complaint affidavits, I will include this complaint in this letter  
to you. 
 
CRIMINAL COMPLAINT AFFIDAVIT: Gwen Baptiste 
 
Essential material facts are: 
 
1 July 25, 1996 Gwen Baptiste improperly returns criminal complaint affidavits properly forwarded to  
Ninth Circuit judge J Clifford Wallace. 
 
2 May 5, 1998  Bapitist repeats return of criminal complaint affidavits properly sent to judge Proctor Hug  Jr. 
 
COUNT 1 
 
3  Ninth circuit Senior Case Expeditor Gwen Baptiste  is charged with REPEATED INTENTIONAL  
MACLIOUS Obstruction of Justice, 18 USC 1512, (b) and (c).  
 
Title 18 Obstruction of Justice, Article  1512, as amended, states 
 
             Tampering with a witness, victim, or an informant 
 
             (b) Whoever knowingly uses intimidation ...  
	     threatens, ... or engages in misleading conduct toward  
	     another person with intent to - 
 
             (3) hinder, delay or prevent the communication to a law 
             enforcement officer or judge of the United States of 
             information relating to the commission or possible 
             commission of a Federal offense ... 
 
             (c) Whoever intentionally harasses another person and  
	     thereby hinders, delays, prevents, or dissuades any  
	     person from -  
 
             (1) reporting to a law enforcement or judge of the United 
             States the commission or possible commission of a Federal 
             offense ... 
 
             or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned ... 
				 
for Baptiste's TWO attempts to convince citizen Payne to file a judicial misconduct complaint 
when Payne was filing CRIMINAL COMPLAINT AFFIDAVITS. 
 
              VERIFICATION 
 
              Under penalty of perjury as provided by law, the  
	undersigned certifies pursuant to 28 USC section 1746  
	that material factual statements set forth in this  
	criminal complaint are true and correct, except as to  
	any matters therein stated to be information and belief  
	of such matters the undersigned certifies as aforesaid  
	that the undersigned verily believes the same to be true. 
 
 
 
 
             Date                     William H. Payne 
        			 13015 Calle de Sandias NE 
                                          Albuquerque, NM 87111 
                                          505-292-7037 
  
Judge Hug, many citizens are becoming disgusted with government misconduct.  Something must 
be done to correct this. 
 
One example is of government misconduct is how the Department of Justice handled the case of a citizen  
ACCUSED of a federal firearm violation. http://www.monumental.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum/ 
 
Displeasure with the way the government handled to bring the ACCUSED to justice led to an 
unfortunate display of dissatisfaction.  ARTICLES RELATED TO OKLAHOMA CITY BOMBING   
http://www.aci.net/kalliste/  
 
Tenth circuit court clerks and judges violated their own rules denying court wins to citizen Morales and 
myself.  Senator Orrin Hatch improperly processed a judicial misconduct complaint against New Mexico
judge John Conway. http://www.jya.com/whp071598.htm

These two acts mostly caused Morales and me AND OTHERS to reveal additional unfortunate decisions by
factions within the US government in the hope PROMPT SETTLEMENT will bring relief. 
http://www.aci.net/kalliste/speccoll.htm   http://caq.com/cryptogate  http://jya.com/whpfiles.htm   
 
We seeks changes within the law so as to avoid future citizen frustration of our government and legal system 
not working properly.   
 
And possible unacceptable, but understandable, future expressions of frustrations of government employees not  
obeying the law. 
 
WRITTEN EVIDENCE both in document copies and on Internet is so BLATANT that crimes have been  
committed. 
 
 I ask that you do you job and issue the warrants of arrest.  Or write me and tell me why you cannot. 
 
I ask that you respond within 30 days. 
 
No response is an invalid response.  As  accused felon former chief judge J Clifford Wallace may 
now know. 
 
Sincerely, 
 
 
 
William H. Payne 
13015 Calle de Sandias NE 
Albuquerque, NM 87111 
 
Distribution 
 
Antoin Scalia   http://www.jya.com/whpscalia.htm   Certified Return receipt requested 
http://www.senate.gov/committee/judiciary.html




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED/EUREKA! 
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 03:20:45 -0700 (PDT)
To: All Eureka/Stuffed Subscribers: ;
Subject: If women had willies.../Sergeant Major 'Just wants to be a woman' http://stuffed.net/98/8/10/
Message-ID: <19980810080001.19559.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Welcome to  today's  issue of Stuffed. To read it you should
click on the URL below.  If it is not made clickable by your
email program  you will need to  use your mouse to highlight
the line,  copy it and then paste it into your browser (then
press Return).

http://stuffed.net/98/8/10/

If you  have an email program that can display web pages you
will find today's front cover should have already been disp-
layed and can be clicked on to take you straight to Stuffed.

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: rtr@internetmedia.com
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 08:55:07 -0700 (PDT)
To: rtr@internetmedia.com
Subject: Earn $10,000+ for your non-profit organization!
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Support Online Staff" 
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 12:36:07 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: Developer Support News Watch - August 10, 1998
Message-ID: <199808101936.MAA28815@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Developer Support News Watch
============================
As a subscriber to Developer Support News Watch, you receive e-mail
twice each month that highlights some of the new articles recently
published on Support Online, Microsoft's award-winning technical support
web site.  

Table of Contents
=================
(1) Announcements
(2) New Knowledge Base Articles
(3) Requesting Articles via E-Mail
(4) Developer Product FAQs & Support Resources
(5) Additional Resources

(1) Announcements

New Features Make Finding Your Answers on Support Online Even Easier
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Support Online recently released a number of new features to make it 
even easier to find the answers you need. The following highlights some of 
the enhancements you'll see on Support Online at http://support.microsoft.com/.

For information about how to use these new Support Online features, see 
http://support.microsoft.com/support/howto/.

- Specify an article ID number. If you know the ID number of the 
  Knowledge Base article you want, you can enter the ID number 
  to find that specific article.

- Search for troubleshooting tools. Now you can customize your 
  search to include troubleshooting tools only.

- Search for specific drivers and other downloadable files. If you
  know the name of the driver or download file you want, enter the
  full file name to find the file on Support Online. 

- See what's new. If you want to see the latest information about 
  a product and/or a topic, use the What's New option and select 
  the number of days you want to review. You can select 1, 3, 7, 
  14, or 30 days.  

- Toggle between Advanced View and Basic View. Advanced View 
  offers additional search options and other features. Now you 
  can easily toggle between Advanced View and Basic View.

Need help using these features? See http://support.microsoft.com/support/howto/.

(2) New Knowledge Base Articles
===============================
In addition to the FAQ documents mentioned below, the 
following articles were recently added or updated in the 
Microsoft Knowledge Base:

Active Data Objects
-------------------
INFO: CreateRecordset Method Cannot Directly Post to Database (190903)
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q190/9/03.asp
SAMPLE: CreateRS.exe Uses the CreateRecordset Function in VC++ (190473)
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q190/4/73.asp

ActiveX SDK
-----------
INFO: Java Applets Cannot Be Scripted in Mac Internet Explorer (190283)
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q190/2/83.asp
INFO: Cannot Distribute Eastman or Wang Imaging Controls (190036)
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q190/0/36.asp

Active Server Pages
-------------------
PRB: ADODB.Recordset Error '800a0bb9' When Using Boolean Filter (190743)
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q190/7/43.asp
HOWTO: Insert Into SQL with Embedded Single Quotes from ASP (190742)
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q190/7/42.asp

Internet Explorer Development
-----------------------------
BUG: Using Scriptlet Control in MFC App causes assertion (190838)
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q190/8/38.asp
BUG: UNICODE Byte Order Marks Ignored by Internet Explorer 4.0x (190837)
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q190/8/37.asp
FIX: 16-Bit Internet Explorer Fails on Secure Sites Using Proxy (190662)
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q190/6/62.asp
PRB: HTML Tag KEYGEN Not Supported in Internet Explorer (190282)
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q190/2/82.asp
DOC: THEAD tag Fails to Create Static Headings in Scrolling Pane (190281)
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q190/2/81.asp
INFO: JavaScript Entities Not Supported in Internet Explorer 4.0 (190280)
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q190/2/80.asp
BUG: THEAD and TFOOTER Text Is Not Printed on Each Page (190278)
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q190/2/78.asp
PRB: HREF="#" with Event Code Behaves Differently (190244)
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q190/2/44.asp
PRB: Using Brackets [] to Index an Array of Objects Causes Error (190243)
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q190/2/43.asp
PRB: JavaScript Errors, Broken Images, and Links Over SSL (190052)
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/q190/0/52.asp
BUG: HTML Dialog Ignores Size Parameters Without 
 
 


(Reposted due to a forged cancel.)



- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: What I like about MS is its loyalty to customers!

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "B.C." 
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 14:06:42 -0700 (PDT)
To: fight-censorship@vorlon.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Child-Molesting Forger's Chilling Confession!!!1!
Message-ID: <199808252106.QAA20854@wins0.win.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: application/x-www-form-urlencoded

application/www-form-urlencoded


From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "B.C." 
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 14:06:48 -0700 (PDT)
To: fight-censorship@vorlon.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Child-Molesting Forger's Chilling Confession!!!1!
Message-ID: <199808252106.QAA20944@wins0.win.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: application/x-www-form-urlencoded

application/www-form-urlencoded


From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "B.C." 
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 14:07:01 -0700 (PDT)
To: fight-censorship@vorlon.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Child-Molesting Forger's Chilling Confession!!!1!
Message-ID: <199808252106.QAA20977@wins0.win.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: application/x-www-form-urlencoded

application/www-form-urlencoded


From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Xcott Craver 
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 14:20:12 -0700 (PDT)
To: "William H. Geiger III" 
Subject: Re: Is hate code speech?
In-Reply-To: <199808251952.OAA001.81@geiger.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Tue, 25 Aug 1998, William H. Geiger III wrote:

>  Now we have to worry about PC variable and function names. What a
> crock. 

	Oh, yeah, you really have to worry about *accidentally*
	calling your variables getwatermelons and somefriedchicken.
	Reminds me of this one guy in our neighborhood who was just
	jogging by our house, bent down to tie a shoelace, lost 
	his balance and accidentally planted a huge burning cross
	in our front lawn.  Woops!  Those damn PC-mongers are 
	making it a crime to jog!

	One note:  I don't see why this lawsuit would be hard to win
	on the grounds that source code isn't necessarily "speech."
	If co-workers left a big wooden swastika on her desk it 
	wouldn't be speech either, but I'd call that actionable.	

	Another note:  frivolous naming conventions are dangerous
	for more than one reason.  Some Y2K firms scan COBOL code
	for variables which are likely to be dates, using the actual
	variable names for clues; this is much less likely to work if 
	you name your field BLOW-JOB instead of ESTIMATED-START-DATE.

							-Scott




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Trei, Peter" 
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 13:48:02 -0700 (PDT)
To: "'cypherpunks@toad.com>
Subject: Reinsch: Crypto export law changes soon.
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On NPR's "Talk of the Nation" yesterday, Bill Reinsch, who
is an undersecretary for Export Administration in the  
Department of Commerce, stated that a change in the export
regs should be expected around Labor Day. 

The context was that the 'promise to compromise your future 
products, and we'll let you export un-escrowed DES until 
the end of 1998' deal is running out, and BXA wants 
business to know (slightly) ahead of time what the new 
regimen will be.

The entire ToTN article can be heard on Real Audio:
http://www.npr.org/programs/totn/archives/1998/current.html

Peter Trei
ptrei@securitydynamics.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 15:20:16 -0700 (PDT)
To: Xcott Craver 
Subject: Re: Is hate code speech?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199808252227.RAA004.35@geiger.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In , on 08/25/98 
   at 04:19 PM, Xcott Craver  said:

>On Tue, 25 Aug 1998, William H. Geiger III wrote:

>>  Now we have to worry about PC variable and function names. What a
>> crock. 

>	Oh, yeah, you really have to worry about *accidentally*
>	calling your variables getwatermelons and somefriedchicken.
>	Reminds me of this one guy in our neighborhood who was just
>	jogging by our house, bent down to tie a shoelace, lost 
>	his balance and accidentally planted a huge burning cross
>	in our front lawn.  Woops!  Those damn PC-mongers are 
>	making it a crime to jog!

Yes and if I want to name my variables getwatermelons and somefiredchicken
who are you to tell me I can't?

>	One note:  I don't see why this lawsuit would be hard to win
>	on the grounds that source code isn't necessarily "speech."
>	If co-workers left a big wooden swastika on her desk it 
>	wouldn't be speech either, but I'd call that actionable.	

But they didn't. There is no proof that any of theses variable names were
written to be directed at her and the majority of them were written
*before* she ever started working there!!

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: OS/2: Not just another pretty program loader!

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 17:54:30 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Quote of the Day: Bullshit by the horns
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980825175356.008177f0@m7.sprynet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


	
The jist of what the NIST dude running the AES program to Crypto 98, UCSB
25 Aug: 

"We are looking for an algorithm acceptable to you and to the NSA"

No one doubled over in laughter, at least physically.


over and out





There is a secret message embedded in the phosphor of this period.



  








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: proff@suburbia.net
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 10:56:06 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Is hate code speech?
Message-ID: <19980825175524.13582.qmail@suburbia.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


IS YOUR FAVORITE COMPUTER PROGRAM RACIST?

Texas programmer sues former employer over offensive code.


When Willa Jackson started working the night shift at Integrated
Systech in Austin, Texas, she felt she was entering a world filled with
opportunity. Jackson had just completed three years of intensive course
work in computer programming at a local community college and, at the
age of 47, had recently been hired by the successful software
developer. Her night-shift position at IS was to be Jackson's first
non-minimum wage job.


But that optimism soon turned to shame and then anger as Jackson
discovered that many of her colleagues at IS were accustomed to making
racist jokes in the office. In fact, the epithets were never actually
uttered in Jackson's presence, they were encoded within the dozens of
software applications being developed at IS.


Her painful discovery occurred less than one month after she began
working as an entry-level programming assistant. It was Jackson's
responsibility to find bugs in sections of code that other,
higher-level IS programmers produced during the day. But when Jackson
-- an African-American woman who hopes to one day launch her own
software startup -- began to dig deeper into a faulty section of source
code she was mortified by what she found.


Programmers at the company had been using racist monikers and explicit
sexual language in the variables used by their programs to sort
information. In one instance, a program had been instructed to "fetch
watermelons" and "somefriedchicken" when handling a certain procedure.
The handler had even been dubbed "pickaninny" and was only one of
several dozen like sequences embedded in IS programs designed for home
and office use.


When Jackson showed the racist code to her supervisor she was assured
that IS would act decisively to reprimand and possibly even dismiss the
offending employee. But as weeks passed and no one approached Jackson
with a follow-up to her complaint, she began to suspect that no
disciplinary action would be forthcoming. At that point, Jackson began
to pore over the mountains of used code that IS had stockpiled over the
past six years.


Much to her dismay, Jackson discovered derogatory and occasionally
violent terms inside the programming language used by almost all IS
software programs. "It went all the way back to the first version of
ISDisk," explains an incredulous Jackson, "and they never bothered to
hide it." Shortly after she had printed out over a thousand pages of
tainted code, Jackson hired an attorney and filed a $10 million dollar
lawsuit against the profitable software firm.


Just who is responsible for the recurring use of discriminatory
language in the company's computer code is still a mystery. IS
executives have issued several public apologies since the lawsuit
began, but they have yet to cooperate with the investigation into its
allegedly hostile work environment. In 1996, Texaco paid out $140
million to resolve a similar lawsuit brought by its minority employees.
But labor law experts speculate that the IS case may never be resolved
due to the unprecedented circumstances of the alleged misconduct.


"No jury in this state will believe that the code Jackson found is
speech," argues Mitch Shapson, an attorney with  the labor relations
firm of Stennis, Shapson & Velasquez. "Even if they did think the
messages hidden inside the programs were offensive," continues Shapson,
"it would be like trying an auto manufacturer for putting a
Swastika-shaped part in your car's engine."


Jackson, who is now working as a full-time programmer at Dell Computers
in San Antonio, is not willing to give up her fight against IS despite
the slim chances of a legal victory. "At this point, I'm not interested
in the money," claims an unbowed Jackson, "I only want the public to
think twice about the kinds of hateful messages that may be hidden
inside the software they use everyday."




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Dan Geer 
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 17:31:13 -0700 (PDT)
To: "Trei, Peter" 
Subject: Re: Reinsch: Crypto export law changes soon.
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199808260031.AA07893@world.std.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



current

    http://www.npr.org/programs/totn/archives/1998/current.html

durable

    http://www.npr.org/programs/totn/archives/1998/980824.totn.html

--dan





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bruce Schneier 
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 18:29:26 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Announcement: $10,000 Twofish Cryptanalysis Contest
Message-ID: <4.0.1.19980817211658.00e7be20@mail.visi.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


To stimulate research into Twofish, the designers are putting their money
where their mathematics is. They are offering $10,000 in prize money for
the best attack on Twofish during the first round of the AES evaluation.

This contest is very different from most other cryptanalysis contests.
There is no ciphertext to decrypt, and no key to find. Instead, the $8,000
first prize will be awarded to the person or group (other than the Twofish
design team) that publishes the best cryptanalysis of Twofish. The runner
up will get a $2,000 second prize.  To qualify the cryptanalysis has to
contain a significant new result not published earlier by the Twofish team.
If no new results are published, the prizes will not be awarded. The
deadline of the contest is NIST's deadline for first-round AES comments;
the result should be presented in a format compatible with the NIST
requirements for first-round comments.  Decisions of the judges (the
Twofish design team) are final.

Good luck,
Bruce 

**********************************************************************
Bruce Schneier, President, Counterpane Systems     Phone: 612-823-1098
101 E Minnehaha Parkway, Minneapolis, MN  55419      Fax: 612-823-1590
           Free crypto newsletter.  See:  http://www.counterpane.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Xcott Craver 
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 18:49:19 -0700 (PDT)
To: "William H. Geiger III" 
Subject: Re: Is hate code speech?
In-Reply-To: <199808252227.RAA004.35@geiger.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Tue, 25 Aug 1998, William H. Geiger III wrote:

> Yes and if I want to name my variables getwatermelons and somefiredchicken
> who are you to tell me I can't?

	Nobody's saying that you can't.  This is about liability for
	the _results_ of what you type.  The same goes for libel:  
	nobody's saying you _can't_ declare that McDonalds puts dead
	rats in their hamburgers, but hoo boy can you and your boss get
	sued to pieces if you do.  Nothing new here.

	Further, this is about someone writing code for a company, 
	where others read it; not you, Bill Geiger III, writing code
	in the privacy of your own basement.  Yes, you will get your ass 
	fired clean off of its hinges if you treat company source code as 
	your own little bathroom wall.  

	As for the fact that this code was put there before the woman's
	arrival, and pretty clearly not intended for her, that may be 
	important in the suit.  I don't know how successful harassment
	suits are when the harassment is undirected --- i.e., crude
	graffiti, leaving a copy of Playboy lying around, etc.

	On the other hand, only a moron would write source code for
	a commercial product without the assumption that other people
	will be reading it, and in fact will *have* to read it to get
	paid.  Any arguments that the coders didn't intend/expect that
	the messages would one day be read by a black person is pretty
	weak.

	All in all, then, I'd say she has a good chance of winning.
	The whole bit about source code not being speech is irrelevant,
	IMHO, since harassment still counts if it ain't speech.  The
	company's only real defense is to rely on the judge & jury's
	technical confusion about what this "source code" stuff is.
	
							-Caj

	




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: attila 
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 14:48:30 -0700 (PDT)
To: Undisclosed recipients:  ;
Subject: illegitimate America
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980825102812.03678894@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




    I heard Clinton's voice for the first time -really- at the barbershop 
    on Wed. I thought he was labeled a great speaker --his accent is one 
    thing, but the resonance I expected was more nasal and hard (despite
    the fact he was on the attack). 

    one thing was immediately apparent from his body language --mean,
    a wounded jackal, and the ominous signs of a dirty fighter just below 
    the surface. he should have been a circus barker or patent medicine
    hawker.

    I dont remember what Clinton said as it was just the usual accusations 
    of persecution. a made for TV president? I suppose, when you consider 
    what TV, the potentially great teacher, degenerated to: nothing
    more than bread and circi, gladiators and moral decadence. the average
    six year old has seen 2,000 murders, many of the graphic --and then
    we wonder why the current generation has no concept of the value
    of life, or that death and sex are easy and maybe interchangeable?

    I read part of Clinton's text --no speech writer in Washington, even 
    the real slime-balls, even James Carville, would, on camera, skirt the 
    whole issue, not even admitting to the concept of a sexual affair; 
    dismissing the faked apology in 30 seconds and then spending 3 1/2 
    minutes in a fierce, partisan, false-premise attack on Starr.
 
    there was a NYTimes story on Jordon.  apparently Jordon dropped
    a bomb with the grand jury stating he had been deceived by Clinton.
    likewise, Betty Currie hung him out to dry and that she had been
    used. Jordon was not willing to take the fall for Slick Willie, or
    even be a part of deception. Jordon has been around too long, and
    is a respected part of the Washington legal crowd (well, as 
    respectable as lawyers can ever be...).  Betty Currie, black, is
    known as a Christian, righteous and dependable, the last stop before
    the boss for years --she came with Clinton from Arkansas.

    that man is dangerous....

    Ambrose Evans-Price is back in Washington --I suppose for the kill;
    expect him to really start digging again to finish his prior work.

    Bubba is a 3 year old who has had a toy (which he stole from a 2
    year old) taken away from him, and is truculently throwing his
    tantrum as if his g_d-given rights to rape, pillage, and burn were
    being trampled.

    I have subscribed to the oft stated presumption that Clinton is
    an illegitimate Rockefeller --Lawrence, Winthrop's brother. Hot
    Springs and the countless door openings. the story of a William
    Blake, a traveling salesman, was pure swamp-water; they picked 
    Blake since he was dead --remember the second half-brother
    (paternal) which turned up right after election whose mother 
    actually was married to Blake --sure like to see a DNA comparison. 

    As a pure Poor Southern White (trailer) Trash, Clinton would never 
    have been given the opportunities he received. Bubba has the strange 
    mix of the trailer trash he really is and the connections of the 
    Rockefellers. Clinton is not the only extremely intelligent 
    child to grow up in an Arkansas trailer park, but he is probably is
    the only one to do more than wear his CAT or Mack cap backwards.

    my friend, foreign correspondent Eric Margolis said yesterday:

	A number of readers have reminded me I predicted four years 
        ago Clinton would be undone by personal scandals in his second
        term.  I didn't need a crystal ball.  Having observed Clinton's
        career since he followed me by two years at Georgetown University,
        I knew he was a ruthlessly ambitious politician, whose utter lack
        of honesty, character, or honor would one day bring him low.

    consider the book Primary Colors, of which (joe?) Klein has been
    unmasked as the writer:  it exposes the total lack of character in 
    both Bill and Hillary --total amorality, riding scandal after scandal 
    with plausible denials. affair after affair... and there is a
    white-black child in Australia, but the mother is silent --money or
    fear?  more DNA anyone?

    someone else made the comment that the women consider him a likable
    rogue --soap opera. Clinton plays the women like violins, pressing
    all the hot buttons of the 25-45 class and they give him a 20-25%
    edge, a figure quoted by many polls and, of course, it was enough 
    to dump "just plain ol' dull George".

    Margolis made another interesting (and obvious) comment:

    	Far from the wronged, last-to-know wife, Hillary Clinton is an
	Arkansas Lady Macbeth. She is the guiding force behind the Clinton
	presidency, who accepts her husband's sleazy infidelities as a
	price of power.  Mrs Clinton's ardent left-liberal views did not
	deter her from taking $100,000 in commodity payoffs from big
	business, spearheading the Whitewater land fraud, hiding documents
	from government investigators, terrorizing White House employees,
	or amassing illegal files on Republicans.

    nothing we have not known, but better stated.

    a way of life... can you even consider the Clintons a dysfunctional
    family?  --it's more like something out of Charles Adams. Angela
    Houston played the perfect Hillary, and her sleazy husband fits Bill.

    it makes you wonder about Chelsea. there she was on the tarmac with
    her father, ugly as ever, but up front. she may have looked like
    she had been whupped by an ugly stick (normal), but she sure wasn't
    hiding --how can she return to Stanford this fall? being the daughter
    of a sitting President isn't easy --but Chelsea? (...and we thought
    Amy had a tough time...).

    more Margolis:

	The Clintons haven't yet been caught red-handed because they are
	both lawyers, the curse of modern America.  Both knew precisely
	how to conceal their questionalble dealings behind an impenetrable
	smokescreen of legal ambiguities, how to skirt the law and avoid
	open illegality, to never leave written evidence. That's why the
	Special Prosecutor, Judge Starr, has had such a difficult time in
	untangling the Gordian Knot of the Clinton's finances...

    "...lawyers, the curse of modern America" --yes, the U.S. has honed
    their skill to a new and deeper cesspool, but the lawyers have been
    with us from antiquity --the Pharisees, for instance.

    well, let's see if my 1986 prediction, even before the name Clinton
    burst upon the national political scene, falls into place. Bush could
    very well be the last U.S. president to finish his elected term. any
    way the game plays out now is a potential disaster. Clinton is not
    going to leave office willingly or voluntarily and Hillary's FBI
    files will just be a beginning for the Republicans --even the NYTimes
    and Washington Post will end up looking like the National Enquirer
    in this blood bath.

    a)  impeachment: James Carville will have a field day opening the
	Congressional sewer. Clinton will still be commander-in-chief
	and the U.S. will quickly be in a foreign war which will bring
	actual warfare to the American land. 

        if Al Gore, with his unfolding problems, moves to 1600
        Pennsylvania, the welfare state will roll out of the garage and
        take off --the military falling	into disarray, unprepared and 
        unsupplied to keep the lid on Pax Americana.  America is not
        loved, probably not even by the Brits as they hang in there now 
	since they need the company while they play standoff with the EC.

    b)  assassination: I dont think the country could survive another
	one, and the results following the chaos would be the same.

    c)  accident:  there is a joke running around about Clinton visiting
	a class room and asking if anyone knew what a 'tragedy' was.

	the first child suggested when a friend is run over on a bike.
	Clinton said no, that would be an 'accident'.

	a second child suggested when a school bus went over a cliff.
	Clinton said no, that would be a 'great loss'.

	finally, a child said that a 'tragedy' was if an airplane
	   carrying Bill and Hillary crashed and they were killed.

        Clinton said that yes, that would be a 'tragedy' and asked
	   the child why that would be a 'tragedy'.

	"Simple", said the child, "it wouldn't be an 'accident' and it
	   certainly would not be a 'great loss'".

    this begs the old joke of how do you create a "flood"...?

    Janet Reno has been protecting Al Gore for some several years, but
    the pot is beginning to show foul smelling fistules. the campaign
    funds sleeze which oozes out of that pot will cripple the Democratic 
    party --the fund swapping with the Teamster president's election 
    fund alone is pure racketeering, while the Chinese connections are 
    treasonous.  and the Democrats will retaliate in kind.
	
    you cant vote the politicians out of office --the inbred
    two-party (supposedly) system is self-sustaining with reformers 
    learning very quickly that reelection is dependent on playing the 
    line, with few notable exceptions.  this collection of power
    hungry thieves drops sleeper legislation into unrelated laws,
    legislation which now brings us a national ID card by fall 2000,
    complete with biometrics, credit record, driving record, criminal
    record, medical record, and whatever else they want to slide in 
    --the mark of the beast is upon us and "the number of the beast
    is six hundred  three score and six". [RV 13:15-18]

    the American people can not win a war against Washington; Clinton and
    friends would not hesitate to use UN troops against American targets;
    and who can supply a rebel army today? is Russia going to help the
    "patriots" with arms and supplies and provide the clandestine
    radio/TV facilities?  besides, Clinton's Gestapo is root out and
    exterminating the militias. militias composed today of only of the
    foolish brave.

    that leaves massive civil disobedience --such as withholding taxes. 
    but joe six pack and friends are never going to accept what that 
    means --the destruction of the U.S. infrastructure and the consequent 
    invasion of America by her "friends" to divvy up the spoils and 
    subjugate what's left of the population --probably less than 50 
    million when the cities collapse and are wasted.

    unfortunately, joe six pack will be trying to tune in another sitcom
    when it all collapses --when the cold beer runs out, he will only
    be confused.

    pessimism? I dont think so.  the question is "when?" 

    the cards are all on the table:  world economics, Islamic jihad 
    (the cruise missiles coalesced the divergent groups into even more
    hatred), irresolvable corruption in virtually all national
    governments: total instability in Russia, the Japanese "house of 
    cards" with a gangster compromised political system which will not
    force the changes required, and China about to pay the piper for
    her financial cronyism.

    the "conspiracy" theorists have no clue. there is no conspiracy.

    it's nothing more than greedy men around the world, in concert 
    with corrupt governments who have taken away any semblance of 
    civilization's morality.

    the worldwide unfunded paper credit is bigger than even the 
    central bankers can even conceive, let alone handle; it is estimated
    that 80% of the float is in paper copies of credit card debt and
    checks traversing the system. a 10% loss is enough to level most
    balance sheet. even Microsoft with its ill-gotten filthy lucre
    could not sustain a 20% write off, or an  80% collapse.

    a global crash this time around will cripple mankind, plunging the 
    globe into starvation and disease as the infrastructure implodes.

    the U.S. is the most vulnerable --how many can be supported in the
    population centers? who survives? probably less than 1% of the 
    urban population --lack of water, food, and sanitation; the last
    is the real killer.  much of the third world lives in squalor;
    but their mortality rate will only be set back 50 years.

    armies move on their stomachs and require enormous supply trains of 
    food and ammo. America settled two European wars (plus the Japanese)
    by being able to feed and arm both our armies and those of of our 
    allies.

	consider that _one_ production line in Southern California was
        cranking out a new B29 every 30 minutes --48 per day-- that's
        production, and Rosie the Welder. and the knowledge, in wartime 
        Germany, of another B29 every 30 minutes --from one line, was
        was demoralizing as the payloads were devastating.

    you cant do that when your infrastructure is being bombed by the
    continuous flow of more and more U.S. B24s and B29s  --ask Germany.

    and then people wonder why I live in the Intermountain Empire --but
    probably not far enough from its borders.

	attila out...    rant mode off.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nii21@allnetwork.com.br (mail)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 13:01:17 -0700 (PDT)
To: nii21@allnetwork.com.br
Subject: I called you at work but you weren't there?
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 20:34:11 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Is hate code speech?
Message-ID: <199808260334.FAA10228@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Tue, 25 Aug 1998, Xcott Craver wrote:

> 	On the other hand, only a moron would write source code for
> 	a commercial product without the assumption that other people
> 	will be reading it, and in fact will *have* to read it to get
> 	paid.  Any arguments that the coders didn't intend/expect that
> 	the messages would one day be read by a black person is pretty
> 	weak.

Oh, I don't know. After all, we all know that blacks are so descriminated
against. That's why we "need" such things as quotas, affirmative action,
"dumbing down" of test scores, special versions of standardized tests for
blacks, ebonics, and other such great ideas. Therefore, analyzing the
government party line, it is perfectly reasonable to have assumed that
blacks would always be so descriminated against as to never get hired for
such a position.

Right.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED NEWS DAILY 
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 02:36:48 -0700 (PDT)
To: (STUFFED WEDNESDAY AUGUST 26 1998)
Subject: STUFFED IS NOW *HOT* STUFFED!/Check out all the new FREE hi-res pics and stuff!
Message-ID: <19980826071000.26319.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
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Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mike Scher 
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 05:33:20 -0700 (PDT)
To: lacc@suburbia.net
Subject: Re: LACC: Re: Is hate code speech?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Tue, 25 Aug 1998, Xcott Craver wrote:
> On Tue, 25 Aug 1998, William H. Geiger III wrote:
> >  Now we have to worry about PC variable and function names. What a
> > crock. 

Um, er, I think, though I am not sure, that the issue in question is
either a hypothetical (judging from the article disclaimer), or that if
not, it just about ought to be.  It is the precise set of facts to lean
for the opinion that program code is meaningful speech or activity due
the full protection of the First Amendment.  I.e., a case with these facts
 
> 	Oh, yeah, you really have to worry about *accidentally*
> 	calling your variables getwatermelons and somefriedchicken.
> 	Reminds me of this one guy in our neighborhood who was just
> 	jogging by our house, bent down to tie a shoelace, lost 
> 	his balance and accidentally planted a huge burning cross
> 	in our front lawn.  Woops!  Those damn PC-mongers are 
> 	making it a crime to jog!
> 
> 	One note:  I don't see why this lawsuit would be hard to win
> 	on the grounds that source code isn't necessarily "speech."
> 	If co-workers left a big wooden swastika on her desk it 
> 	wouldn't be speech either, but I'd call that actionable.	
> 
> 	Another note:  frivolous naming conventions are dangerous
> 	for more than one reason.  Some Y2K firms scan COBOL code
> 	for variables which are likely to be dates, using the actual
> 	variable names for clues; this is much less likely to work if 
> 	you name your field BLOW-JOB instead of ESTIMATED-START-DATE.
> 
> 							-Scott
> 

Michael Brian Scher   (MS683)  | Anthropologist, Attorney, Policy Analyst
     strange@cultural.com      |     http://www.tezcat.com/~strange/
     strange@uchicago.edu      |           strange@tezcat.com
   Give me a compiler and a box to run it, and I can move the mail.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mike Scher 
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 05:37:43 -0700 (PDT)
To: lacc@suburbia.net
Subject: Re: LACC: Re: Is hate code speech? (fwd)
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


GAH.  Sorry about that truncated comment -- Morning misfire - went to
postpone to look up cites and sent instead.  Grumble finger macros,
grumble. 

The upshot being that a hostile work environment/harassment case with
these facts would serve as a great 'tie breaker' in any Supreme Court
decision between the "code is not speech" and "code is speech" split we're
seeing between federal jurisdictions. 

That is to say, in the American jurisprudence system, if you want
something protected from prior restraint as speech, you also have to take
the responsibilities the system imposes on you for the effects of that
speech. 

      -M

Michael Brian Scher   (MS683)  | Anthropologist, Attorney, Policy Analyst
     strange@cultural.com      |     http://www.tezcat.com/~strange/
     strange@uchicago.edu      |           strange@tezcat.com
   Give me a compiler and a box to run it, and I can move the mail.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Leif Ericksen 
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 05:55:06 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Is hate code speech?
In-Reply-To: <199808251952.OAA001.81@geiger.com>
Message-ID: <35E404DB.96F9FBFA@wwa.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


William H. Geiger III wrote:
> 
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> 
> In <19980825175524.13582.qmail@suburbia.net>, on 08/25/98
>    at 05:55 PM, proff@suburbia.net said:
> 
> >Jackson, who is now working as a full-time programmer at Dell Computers
> >in San Antonio, is not willing to give up her fight against IS despite
> >the slim chances of a legal victory. "At this point, I'm not interested
> >in the money," claims an unbowed Jackson, "I only want the public to
> >think twice about the kinds of hateful messages that may be hidden inside
> >the software they use everyday."
> 
>  Now we have to worry about PC variable and function names. What a
> crock.
> 
> Isn't there laws on the books that if you file a frivolous law suite like
> the one above and you loose then you have to pay the expenses of the other
> party?
> 
> 
	Well this far in the USA we do not have such a law :<
We should that way stupid fools that spill hot coffee on themselves will
not try to sue McDonalds for over 1.2 Million$ because the coffee was to
hot...   Go figure, hot coffee is not supposed to be hot.

Many other countries have laws that if your bring a case to court and
loose you pay the fees of the one you sued.  Any folks from around the
world that can attest to how your country handles cases?

			- lhe




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 07:46:13 -0700 (PDT)
To: j orlin grabbe 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Wednesday 8/26/98 7:11 AM

J Orlin Grabbe

1  Tuesday issue of the ABQ J always carries a special section on
computers.

  t 8/25/98 

  COUNTDOWN TO Y2K

  Cataclysm or inconvenience?

Of most interest to me was

  Old mainframes make sheer size of problem nearly overwhelming

  By Chris Allbritton
  The Associated Press

  NEW YORK -  The shear number of unique solutions needed for the Year
  2000 bug, not the technical aspects, are the real problem behind this
glitch
  in time. ...

for the reason of my book and translation

  Machine, Assembly, and System Programming for the IBM 360, New York:  
  Harper & Row, 1969 
                   
  Programacion en Lenguaje de Maquina, Asemblador, y de Sistemas con el 
  IBM 360, Harper & Row, 1971

In the 1970s some IBM 360/70/40xx were STILL running IBM 650 simulators
which
hosted code which companies did not want to rewrite!

The message published in the Monday ABQ J

                            	'98 Warning!
  Due to serious bugs and compatibility problems, we join many other PC 
  builders in recommending AGAINST Windows '98 at this time.

http://www.c-works.com/

makes me speculate that the hardware vendors were able to try out their
new hardware
on DOS, Win 3.xx, 95, NT but not on '98.

Since Microsoft may not have had new hardware like the AMD K6 -2 [3d],
'98 was
not fully exercised on the newer architectures.

I will send you page on Y2K.

And also the copy of

  NSA  deputy director Barbara McNamara's  wrote me a letter dated 19
August  1998.

  http://www.nsa.gov:8080/mission.html

  McNamara DENIED my fee waiver appeal for search for invoices NSA spent
on public key chips.

  From my inside dealings with NSA's R division and Sandia employees  I
learned that both had     some VERY UNFORTUNATE EXPERIENCES with public
key.

  I am sending both you and John Young copies of NcNamara's letter.

  McNamara wrote,

    This response may be construed as a denial of your appeal. 
Accordingly, you are hereby 
  advised to your right to seek judicial review of my decision pursuant
to 5 U.S.C. § 552(a)(4)
  (B) in the United States District Court in the district in which you
reside, in which you have
  your principal place of business, in which the Agency's records are
situated (U.S. District
  Court of Maryland), or in the District of Columbia. 

  http://www.jya.com/hr105-37.txt 

I wonder if http://www.taliban.com/ is the 'real thing' or an
'intelligence agency'
spy plot?  Since we send

  Date: 
        Tue, 25 Aug 1998 13:43:24 -0600
  From: 
        bill payne 
    To: 
        dpcintrn@osd.pentagon.mil, abumujahid@taliban.com

it doesn't matter too much either way.  We either get both or the same
twice.

I am reading http://www.aci.net/kalliste/

  Impeachment Watch

               The High Cost of the War on Terrorism

              Bill Clinton's $100 Million Crusade Against Ken Starr

                                        by Charles R. Smith

      August was an expensive month for the U.S. taxpayer. For example,
Bill Clinton shot $100       million on August 20, 1998 at "terrorist"
sites in Sudan and Afghanistan. The 79 Tomahawk        cruise missiles
signaled a new "war" that Bill Clinton decided to declare on terrorism
and       not to be confused with the $100 million White House "war" on
Ken Starr.  ...

Last night I was CAREFULLY STARTING to read HARCOPY OF
http://www.softwar.net/plight.html especially  

  Sensor input is processed through the A/D converter and provided as
raw 8 bit data which is     then saved in WAVformat. A program designed
to extract randomization values from the raw data    for use as a cipher
key could takevarious forms. One form would be to serially store    
non-repeating samples of data into fixed length blocks for processing,
such as 8 or 16 bytes.    The sampled values would then be summed,
XORed, left or right shift registered (LSR/RSR), least   significant bit
extracted, or any combination of math processes. The resulting byte of
data   would then represent the combination of photon values taken over
the time period of   
  the sample. Other processes could make use of various formulas, such
as lossy or LZ, to give     still other values for photons taken over
the selected time period of the sample. 

  10 CLS:DEFINT A-Y:DEFDBL Z
  20 OPEN "R",#1,"TEST.WAV",1
  30 FIELD #1, 1 AS D$:J=1:O=0
  40 Z1 = LOF(1):ZR=64:A=0:O$=""
  50 ZR=ZR+1:IF ZR>Z1 THEN GOTO 100
  60 GET #1,ZR:I$=D$
  70 GOSUB 110:IF FA=0 THEN GOTO 50
  80 E=E+1:IF E>255 THEN E=0
  90 GOTO 50
  100 CLOSE #1:STOP
  110 FA=0:SK=ASC(I$)+SK:IF SK>32510 THEN SK=SK-32510
  120 IF S$<>I$ THEN GOTO 130 ELSE RETURN
  130 FA=1:S$=I$:A=A+1:O$=O$+I$
  140 IF A=16 THEN GOTO 160
  150 RETURN
  160 A=0:B=0:O= E XOR J:K=SK MOD 256:O = K XOR O
  170 FOR N=1 TO 16:X$=MID$(O$,N,1)
  180 B=ASC(X$):O = B XOR O
  190 NEXT N:O$=""
  200 IF O=J THEN RETURN
  210 PRINT O;:J=O
  220 RETURN

I STARTED to analyze what Smith's BASIC code did. 

I am STILL THINKING ABOUT the REASONS FOR

110 FA=0:SK=ASC(I$)+SK:IF SK>32510 THEN SK=SK-32510

which contains PROBABLY ZERO-initialized variable SK.

Smith will likely NOT be indicted by BXA  

http://www.bxa.doc.gov/FOIA/Foiaintro.htm
http://www.bxa.doc.gov/FOIA/Foialib.htm

for distributing controlled code on Internet.

The statement

  The sampled values would then be summed, XORed, left or right shift
registered (LSR/RSR), least 
  significant bit extracted, or any combination of math processes.

does NOT EXACTLY TELL what Smith is doing in PCYPHER ENCRYPTION USING
LIGHT.

But Smith's APPARENT belief that terminal bits of samples taken from
continuous distributions are, we believe, uniformly distributed.

    Payne, W. H., and T. G. Lewis, Continuous Distribution
    Sampling:  Accuracy and Speed, Mathematical Software,
    ed., J. R. Rice, Academic Press:  New York (1971), pp.
    331-345. 

    Lewis, T. G., and W. H. Payne, Generalized Feedback
    Shift Register Pseudorandom Number Algorithm, Journal
    of Assn. for Computing Machinery, 21, 3 (1973): 456-
    468. 

http://www-hto.usc.edu/software/seqaln/doc/html/gfsr.3.html
http://www.friction-free-economy.com       

    Sobolewski, J. S., and W. H. Payne, Pseudonoise with
    Arbitrary Amplitude Distribution:  Part I:  Theory,
    IEEE Transactions On Computers, 21 (1972): 337-345. 
                   
    Sobolewski, J. S., and W. H. Payne, Pseudonoise with
    Arbitrary Amplitude Distribution:  Park II:  Hardware
    Implementation, IEEE Transactions on Computers, 21
    (1972): 346-352. 

http://www.mhpcc.edu/general/john.html       

HOWEVER, us the the REAL PRACTICAL WORLD http://jya.com/da/whpda.htm
might be a bit concerned
what happens if the sensor output voltage exceeds EITHER in a plus or
minus direction the INPUT range of the a/d converter.

     http://www.softwar.net/plight.html
     Collector-Emitter Voltage 30 Volt 
     Emitter-Collector Voltage 5 Volt 

If the input voltage goes SOMEWHAT HIGHER, then the terminal bit MAY BE
A 1 and not random.

On the other hand, if the input voltage goes SOMEWHAT LOWER, then the
terminal bit MAY BE A 
0 and not random.

If the input voltages goes LOTS HIGHER OR LOWER than the limits, it is
SAYONARA a/d converter!
The Real World again.

SOME NSA KG schematics Brian Snow showed me had statistical test
hardware built in to ATTEMPT to
detect non-random output.  If the output failed the test, then the KG
unit shut down.

Smith, I think, has a neat idea which needs to be looked at VERY
CAREFULLY.

Some of us continue to feel that the crypto key must be as long as the
message encrypted.  As was pointed out by Gilbert S. Vernam and Joseph
O. Mauborgne in 1918.

Pseudorandom sequences DON'T WORK VERY WELL FOR ENCRYPTION.

  Pcypher Light is designed to measure the number of photons from around
your PC (light     particles) and create a random numbers from that
light. Pcypher Light is NOT just software but   hardware as well. It is
easy to install and use.  We give you SOFTWAR's advanced technology    
Light Probe, a highly sensitive phototransistor, which the software
samples at thousands of     times per second. Think of it as a
microphone for light. In fact all you have to do is plug it   directly
into the MIC input of any PC sound card. That is it. Run the PC Windows
software and   start making REAL randomized keys. NOT A PSEUDO KEY
GENERATOR.

Two reasons are

1  There should always be TWO KEYs.  The 'real key' and the key you
claim IN A LEGAL-SENSE is the 'real key' in case you get CAUGHT.

     A  Nuke them
     B  Send flowers

If you send A be sure to have a B key and a receipt for the flowers.

2  Pseudorandom sequences MAY make it difficult to find the SECOND key.

So let's hope these crypto messes 

http://www.aci.net/kalliste/speccoll.htm   
http://caq.com/cryptogate  
http://jya.com/whpfiles.htm  
http://www.qainfo.se/~lb/crypto_ag.htm

gets SETTLED SO THAT WE CAN ALL DEBATE TECHNICAL ISSUES and PUBLISH our
results in RECOGNIZED SCIENTIFIC JOURNALS and POST on the Infobahn too.

I want to revise my book for Windows and the 80C32 too.

Best
bill
http://www.apcatalog.com/cgi-bin/AP?ISBN=0125475705&LOCATION=US&FORM=FORM2         
http://jya.com/f86/whpf86.htm






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: jim.profit@usa.net
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 02:52:50 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <19980826095247.17627.qmail@www09.netaddress.usa.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Subject: US fighting a covert biological war?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

http://www.arabia.com/content/living/8_98/worm_25.8.98.shtml
http://www.arabia.com/content/news/8_98/shifa24.8.98.shtml



____________________________________________________________________
Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Dan Stromberg 
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 10:51:22 -0700 (PDT)
To: lacc@suburbia.net
Subject: Re: LACC: Re: Is hate code speech?
In-Reply-To: <199808252227.RAA004.35@geiger.com>
Message-ID: <35E44AD1.442F@nis.acs.uci.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


William H. Geiger III wrote:
> 
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> 
> In , on 08/25/98
>    at 04:19 PM, Xcott Craver  said:
> 
> >On Tue, 25 Aug 1998, William H. Geiger III wrote:
> 
> >>  Now we have to worry about PC variable and function names. What a
> >> crock.
> 
> >       Oh, yeah, you really have to worry about *accidentally*
> >       calling your variables getwatermelons and somefriedchicken.
> >       Reminds me of this one guy in our neighborhood who was just
> >       jogging by our house, bent down to tie a shoelace, lost
> >       his balance and accidentally planted a huge burning cross
> >       in our front lawn.  Woops!  Those damn PC-mongers are
> >       making it a crime to jog!
> 
> Yes and if I want to name my variables getwatermelons and somefiredchicken
> who are you to tell me I can't?

A company worth working for will have a policy that tells you you
cannot.  (Ok, those variables are a fuzzy issue - Very bad taste. The
violent stuff mentioned in the original article is clear cut, however)

> >       One note:  I don't see why this lawsuit would be hard to win
> >       on the grounds that source code isn't necessarily "speech."
> >       If co-workers left a big wooden swastika on her desk it
> >       wouldn't be speech either, but I'd call that actionable.
> 
> But they didn't. There is no proof that any of theses variable names were
> written to be directed at her and the majority of them were written
> *before* she ever started working there!!

So what's your point?

Creating a hostile environment with the expectation that you'll never
hire someone who's black is "ok"?




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: mcw@atreus.ncs.ncsc.mil
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 08:51:26 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Is Hate Code Speech?
Message-ID: <9808261651.AA06929@atreus.noname>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I've searched the web and newsgroups several times, and found no mention
of "Willa Jackson".  I find it unlikely that this is real.

Despite my respect for Mr. Geiger, I must disagree - I don't find the
suit frivolous at all.

Briefly, I think that anyone who maintains software will agree that
naming variables & functions by any standard other than that of their
function is poor programming practice, and impedes maintenance.  Clearly
the authors of the code had some intent other than that of writing
maintainable code.  The fact that there were one or more coherent themes
in the names chosen indicates that their agenda was probably coherent.
The fact that management took no action when informed of this indicates
a complicity.

In essence, I believe that we are all entitled to a workplace free of
hate, and full of respect for our professional abilities.  For sheer
economic reasons, I think that the management of any responsible firm
will act to ensure that (respect is worth quite a few $$ in
compensation).

I acknowledge that you're welcome to use whatever variable names you
want in code you write in private. BUt if you want to sell that code, it
should be held to a standard of professionalism.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Dan Stromberg 
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 11:56:29 -0700 (PDT)
To: "William H. Geiger III" 
Subject: Re: LACC: Re: Is hate code speech?
In-Reply-To: <199808261844.NAA016.34@geiger.com>
Message-ID: <35E45A31.1CD2@nis.acs.uci.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


William H. Geiger III wrote:
> 
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> 
> In <35E44AD1.442F@nis.acs.uci.edu>, on 08/26/98
>    at 12:50 PM, Dan Stromberg  said:
> 
> >William H. Geiger III wrote:
> >>
> >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> >>
> >> In , on 08/25/98
> >>    at 04:19 PM, Xcott Craver  said:
> >>
> >> >On Tue, 25 Aug 1998, William H. Geiger III wrote:
> >>
> >> >>  Now we have to worry about PC variable and function names. What a
> >> >> crock.
> >>
> >> >       Oh, yeah, you really have to worry about *accidentally*
> >> >       calling your variables getwatermelons and somefriedchicken.
> >> >       Reminds me of this one guy in our neighborhood who was just
> >> >       jogging by our house, bent down to tie a shoelace, lost
> >> >       his balance and accidentally planted a huge burning cross
> >> >       in our front lawn.  Woops!  Those damn PC-mongers are
> >> >       making it a crime to jog!
> >>
> >> Yes and if I want to name my variables getwatermelons and somefiredchicken
> >> who are you to tell me I can't?
> 
> >A company worth working for will have a policy that tells you you cannot.
> >(Ok, those variables are a fuzzy issue - Very bad taste. The violent
> >stuff mentioned in the original article is clear cut, however)
> 
> Company policy and federal law are two different things. A company should
> be able to set their policy to whatever they want, don't like it don't
> work there.

Gosh, no kidding?  Company policy isn't the same as fed law?

As I said, a company worth working for, will have a policy that
creates/preserves a decent working environment.

> Also please explain exactly what "violent stuff" you are in reference to
> and how it is "clear cut".

Violence is obviously out of line.  Or do you like being threatened?

> >Creating a hostile environment with the expectation that you'll never
> >hire someone who's black is "ok"?
> 
> 1st off the whole notion of "hostile environment" is bunk. It is a loosely
> undefined term to mean anything the PC crowd wants it to. If you do or say

I can see you're not worth bothering with.

Sad that I wasted this much time responding.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 11:58:01 -0700 (PDT)
To: Dan Stromberg 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 10:50 AM -0700 8/26/98, Dan Stromberg wrote:

>A company worth working for will have a policy that tells you you
>cannot.  (Ok, those variables are a fuzzy issue - Very bad taste. The
>violent stuff mentioned in the original article is clear cut, however)

This is not the issue. Maybe a company will have a policy forbidding flaky
or unusual variable names, maybe it won't. Maybe it will even encourage
such names.

The issue is whether the government or the courts has any right to
intervene to force changes in such matters.

....
>So what's your point?
>
>Creating a hostile environment with the expectation that you'll never
>hire someone who's black is "ok"?

In a free society, of course it should be legal, even if not desireable to
many.

Consider some parallels.

* The Hitler Corporation is dedicated to selling literature and memorabilia
exalting Adolph Hitler. It sells "Mein Kampf." It sells Nazi flags. It
sells scale models of the Auschwitz crematoria. All very legal to do, at
least in the United States.

However, Jewish employees feel offended. They consider the Hitler
Corporation to have a "hostile environment."

What are their options? In a free society, they walk. In fact, they were
fools to ever apply for jobs, and THC was foolish to hire them.

* The Carnivore's Den is a meat-only restaurant. Alice B. Vegan feels
offended that she is "forced" to serve meat, and she feels her civil rights
are being violated by the restaurant.

And so on. Non-Mormons feel slighted at Mormon bookstores. Satanists feel
slighted at Christian day care centers. And honkies feel out of place at
Rastafarian Chicken and Watermelon roadside stands.

So? The right to "fit in" in all places is not a right, only a wish.

--Tim May



"The tree of liberty must be watered periodically with the blood of
tyrants...."
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist              | black markets, collapse of governments.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 10:14:09 -0700 (PDT)
To: mcw@atreus.ncs.ncsc.mil
Subject: Re: Is Hate Code Speech?
In-Reply-To: <9808261651.AA06929@atreus.noname>
Message-ID: <199808261721.MAA014.73@geiger.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In <9808261651.AA06929@atreus.noname>, on 08/26/98 
   at 11:51 AM, mcw@atreus.ncs.ncsc.mil said:

>I've searched the web and newsgroups several times, and found no mention
>of "Willa Jackson".  I find it unlikely that this is real.

>Despite my respect for Mr. Geiger, I must disagree - I don't find the
>suit frivolous at all.

>Briefly, I think that anyone who maintains software will agree that
>naming variables & functions by any standard other than that of their
>function is poor programming practice, and impedes maintenance.  Clearly
>the authors of the code had some intent other than that of writing
>maintainable code.  The fact that there were one or more coherent themes
>in the names chosen indicates that their agenda was probably coherent.
>The fact that management took no action when informed of this indicates a
>complicity.

>In essence, I believe that we are all entitled to a workplace free of
>hate, and full of respect for our professional abilities.  For sheer
>economic reasons, I think that the management of any responsible firm
>will act to ensure that (respect is worth quite a few $$ in
>compensation).

>I acknowledge that you're welcome to use whatever variable names you want
>in code you write in private. BUt if you want to sell that code, it
>should be held to a standard of professionalism.

Yes but should this "standard" be enforced by law? Last time I looked
there was no Constitutional right not to be offended. There is a very
strong Constitutional right to freedom of speech and the courts have long
ruled that it is not just popular speech that is protected.

IMHO, this whole matter is an internal company matter. The courts and
politicians should have no say in it.


- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: Windows?  WINDOWS?!?  Hahahahahehehehehohohoho...

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Chip 
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 12:19:29 -0700 (PDT)
To: Ray Arachelian 
Subject: Re:
In-Reply-To: <35E45684.BA1CC753@brainlink.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


> Anonymous wrote:
> > 
> > http://www.itd.nrl.navy.mil/ITD/5540/ieee/cipher/news-items/980713.LISTWATCH
> > .html
> > 
> > My online review of this list and others.
> > 
> > Mary Ellen Zurko
> > "We will be obliged to take action ourselves" -Gore on privacy
> 
> 
> Sorry Anon, but that url 404's... Perhaps you could try again?

perhaps you could try:

http://www.itd.nrl.navy.mil/ITD/5540/ieee/cipher/news-items/980713.LISTWATCH.html

don't give up so easily  =)



---
The above comment is not necessarily that of the author.
Chip is chip@chipware.net - PGP, ICQ, PINE, LINUX, YEAH BABY!
Fremont, California, USA, Earth, Sol ~ http://www.chipware.net





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Dan Stromberg 
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 12:49:11 -0700 (PDT)
To: "William H. Geiger III" 
Subject: Re: LACC: Re: Is hate code speech?
In-Reply-To: <199808261937.OAA017.62@geiger.com>
Message-ID: <35E4652F.66D2@nis.acs.uci.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


William H. Geiger III wrote:
> >Sad that I wasted this much time responding.
> 
> Why, because I challenge your PC dogma and require to to rationally
> justify it? We have an old saying here "If you are scared son, then say
> you are scared". If you are unable to rationally and objectively justify
> your PC dogma than just say so.

Smirk.  /I'm terrified/  I've said it before, and I'll say it again:

Never wrestle with a pig.  You both get dirty, and the pig likes it.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 11:37:15 -0700 (PDT)
To: Dan Stromberg 
Subject: Re: LACC: Re: Is hate code speech?
In-Reply-To: <35E44AD1.442F@nis.acs.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <199808261844.NAA016.34@geiger.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In <35E44AD1.442F@nis.acs.uci.edu>, on 08/26/98 
   at 12:50 PM, Dan Stromberg  said:

>William H. Geiger III wrote:
>> 
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> 
>> In , on 08/25/98
>>    at 04:19 PM, Xcott Craver  said:
>> 
>> >On Tue, 25 Aug 1998, William H. Geiger III wrote:
>> 
>> >>  Now we have to worry about PC variable and function names. What a
>> >> crock.
>> 
>> >       Oh, yeah, you really have to worry about *accidentally*
>> >       calling your variables getwatermelons and somefriedchicken.
>> >       Reminds me of this one guy in our neighborhood who was just
>> >       jogging by our house, bent down to tie a shoelace, lost
>> >       his balance and accidentally planted a huge burning cross
>> >       in our front lawn.  Woops!  Those damn PC-mongers are
>> >       making it a crime to jog!
>> 
>> Yes and if I want to name my variables getwatermelons and somefiredchicken
>> who are you to tell me I can't?

>A company worth working for will have a policy that tells you you cannot. 
>(Ok, those variables are a fuzzy issue - Very bad taste. The violent
>stuff mentioned in the original article is clear cut, however)

Company policy and federal law are two different things. A company should
be able to set their policy to whatever they want, don't like it don't
work there.

Also please explain exactly what "violent stuff" you are in reference to
and how it is "clear cut".

>> >       One note:  I don't see why this lawsuit would be hard to win
>> >       on the grounds that source code isn't necessarily "speech."
>> >       If co-workers left a big wooden swastika on her desk it
>> >       wouldn't be speech either, but I'd call that actionable.
>> 
>> But they didn't. There is no proof that any of theses variable names were
>> written to be directed at her and the majority of them were written
>> *before* she ever started working there!!

>So what's your point?

>Creating a hostile environment with the expectation that you'll never
>hire someone who's black is "ok"?

1st off the whole notion of "hostile environment" is bunk. It is a loosely
undefined term to mean anything the PC crowd wants it to. If you do or say
anything that might "offend" a PCer then you have a "hostile workplace".
As I said in previous posts you do not have a right to not be offended not
only that but thanks to the 1st Amendment I have the right to offend you.

One should be very carefull of this whole notion of protecting people from
being offended. Not only does it erode the rights protected under the
Constitution but it can very easily be turned against those who are
promoting it. Political tides are turning and the country as a whole is
getting fed up with the PC crowd. I can see lawsuits in the not to distant
future against the Pcer for creating a "hostile workplace" by pushing
their PC dogma.


- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Xcott Craver 
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 11:40:49 -0700 (PDT)
To: "William H. Geiger III" 
Subject: Re: Is Hate Code Speech?
In-Reply-To: <199808261721.MAA014.73@geiger.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Wed, 26 Aug 1998, William H. Geiger III wrote:

> Yes but should this "standard" be enforced by law? Last time I looked
> there was no Constitutional right not to be offended.

	Yet harassment is actionable.  Nutty, huh?  And it's just
	the tip of the iceberg:  apparently the law protects you
	from being severely beaten, despite the fact that there is
	no explicit constitutional right not to be severely beaten.

	Not trying to equate harassment with a severe beating, just
	pointing out that the lack of an explicit constitutional 
	right does not magically nullify the rest of the law.

> strong Constitutional right to freedom of speech and the courts have long
> ruled that it is not just popular speech that is protected.

	Indeed, "popular" speech is, almost by definition, the kind
	of speech that never really needs protection.  That first amendment
	wouldn't have much of a purpose if it only protected popular
	stuff.
	
> IMHO, this whole matter is an internal company matter. The courts and
> politicians should have no say in it.

	It WAS an internal company matter, apparently, but the 
	company didn't seem to do anything to remedy it.  That's 
	when you turn to law.  

							-Caj




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 12:01:02 -0700 (PDT)
To: "Francis, Catherine" 
Subject: RE: LACC: Re: Is hate code speech?
In-Reply-To: <6B5344C210C7D011835C0000F8012766020BB4B0@exna01.securitydynamics.com>
Message-ID: <199808261908.OAA016.61@geiger.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In <6B5344C210C7D011835C0000F8012766020BB4B0@exna01.securitydynamics.com>,
on 08/26/98 
   at 02:27 PM, "Francis, Catherine"  said:

>I worry that, in the process of laying all this flame-bait, y'all are
>hoping that naive people might think that a job where there's racial and
>sexual hate-speech isn't a hostile work environment.  Putting this sort
>of language in code does not shelter it from co-workers.

1: In a free and open society one should be able to debate and analyze any
topic of their choosing, even your precious PC dogma. Rather than debate
the issues at hand you choose to use words like "flame-bait" and "troll"
in a weak and obvious attempt to minimize any criticism of your cherished
beliefs.

2: y'all <-- We wouldn't be trying to make an subtle ethnic slur here are
we. Oh I forgot the PC crowd can attack whites, jews, asians (if they make
too much money), southerners, ...ect and that's ok. Do you do this at
work? Are you creating a "hostile workplace" with your anti-souther bais??
Do you see how silly this whole "hostile workplace" concept is??

3: please define "hate-speech" and show where in the 1st Amendments or the
numerous SC ruling that there is "Freedom of Speech" except for speech
that *you* don't like. Please explain where your "right" not to be offened
is derived from.

>	It doesn't matter that the offensive names weren't directed at her. It's
>much worse that they were directed towards an entire group.  Or maybe you
>just admire ethnic slander in terms of cost-efficiency, a sort of
>more-bang-for-the-buck maximization of intolerance where it's a question
>of offending the greatest number with the least amount of effort, and
>simply admire the mechanism by which it's been accomplished?

>	This isn't an issue of free speech.  Well, maybe.  The coder is free to
>name her/his/its variables what they like, all ethical issues aside, and
>equally free to live with the consequences of those actions, which should
>have been the company not using something so vastly unprofessional and
>guaranteed to eventually open them up to a suit like this.  There are
>standards of behavior in a workplace that are slightly more restrictive
>than standing on a soapbox on the quad.  A software company's code is an
>internal company document.  The code that you write at home is your
>document.  You may find this distinction instructive.


This is strictly an issue of free speech. Wether you *like* what I have to
say is not an issue, I still retain the right to say it. The fact of
*where* I say it is irrelevant. If I want to tell a dirty joke, or make a
"racist" comment at work that is my *right* to do so. If my employer
objects to that behavior then it is his right to take whatever action he
feels necessary (upto and including fireing me). This is a matter between
myself and my employer and does not involve the courts or the politicians.

>I'm sorry to digress, since this isn't why the article was originally
>posted, but I was forced to succumb to the troll.  Free speech is
>essential in an open society.   Freedom from discrimination is essential
>in a democracy.   Carry on.

Oh no, you were not "forced", you willfully jumped right in with your
emotional dribble, fearful of open, objective, debate of your precious PC
dogma.

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: CTIA Daily News 
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 12:56:18 -0700 (PDT)
To: CTIA Daily News 
Subject: CTIA Daily News from WOW-COM - August 26, 1998
Message-ID: <199808261903.OAA28710@mailstrom.revnet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary..3995.1071713796.multipart/mixed"

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==========================================
Welcome to today's edition of the CTIA Daily News
from WOW-COM.  Please click on the icon / attachment
for the most important news in wireless communications today.

A new multi-billion dollar industry is here! 
Be at CTIA's WIRELESS I.T. '98
where personal computing and communications converge!

Don't Miss Your Chance -- October 12-14, 1998
Bally's Las Vegas, Las Vegas, NV

For more information, visit http://www.wirelessit.com 
===========================================
 




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 12:12:19 -0700 (PDT)
To: Xcott Craver 
Subject: Re: Is Hate Code Speech?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199808261919.OAA016.99@geiger.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In , on 08/26/98 
   at 01:40 PM, Xcott Craver  said:


>On Wed, 26 Aug 1998, William H. Geiger III wrote:

>> Yes but should this "standard" be enforced by law? Last time I looked
>> there was no Constitutional right not to be offended.

>	Yet harassment is actionable.  Nutty, huh?  And it's just
>	the tip of the iceberg:  apparently the law protects you
>	from being severely beaten, despite the fact that there is
>	no explicit constitutional right not to be severely beaten.

>	Not trying to equate harassment with a severe beating, just
>	pointing out that the lack of an explicit constitutional 
>	right does not magically nullify the rest of the law.

No, it does not, but unlike beating I *do* have a Constitutional right to
be objectionable as I want with my speech. A good example is the Nazi
march in Skokie,IL. The SC ruled that they had a right to march despite
the fact that the large Jewish community there was quite offended by it.

>> strong Constitutional right to freedom of speech and the courts have long
>> ruled that it is not just popular speech that is protected.

>	Indeed, "popular" speech is, almost by definition, the kind
>	of speech that never really needs protection.  That first amendment
>	wouldn't have much of a purpose if it only protected popular
>	stuff.
>	

>> IMHO, this whole matter is an internal company matter. The courts and
>> politicians should have no say in it.

>	It WAS an internal company matter, apparently, but the 
>	company didn't seem to do anything to remedy it.  That's 
>	when you turn to law.  

I see, so if a company and it's employees exercise their Constitutionally
protect right of free speech and does not stop exercising that right when
someone complains then the courts should take over? How does this match
with your agreement that the 1st Amendment protects unpopular speech?

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: DOS=HIGH? I knew it was on something...

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Francis, Catherine" 
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 11:24:08 -0700 (PDT)
To: "'lacc@suburbia.net>
Subject: RE: LACC: Re: Is hate code speech?
Message-ID: <6B5344C210C7D011835C0000F8012766020BB4B0@exna01.securitydynamics.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I worry that, in the process of laying all this flame-bait, y'all are hoping
that naive people might think that a job where there's racial and sexual
hate-speech isn't a hostile work environment.  Putting this sort of language
in code does not shelter it from co-workers.

	It doesn't matter that the offensive names weren't directed at her.
It's much worse that they were directed towards an entire group.  Or maybe
you just admire ethnic slander in terms of cost-efficiency, a sort of
more-bang-for-the-buck maximization of intolerance where it's a question of
offending the greatest number with the least amount of effort, and simply
admire the mechanism by which it's been accomplished?

	This isn't an issue of free speech.  Well, maybe.  The coder is free
to name her/his/its variables what they like, all ethical issues aside, and
equally free to live with the consequences of those actions, which should
have been the company not using something so vastly unprofessional and
guaranteed to eventually open them up to a suit like this.  There are
standards of behavior in a workplace that are slightly more restrictive than
standing on a soapbox on the quad.  A software company's code is an internal
company document.  The code that you write at home is your document.  You
may find this distinction instructive.

I'm sorry to digress, since this isn't why the article was originally
posted, but I was forced to succumb to the troll.  Free speech is essential
in an open society.   Freedom from discrimination is essential in a
democracy.   Carry on.


> ----------
> From: 	William H. Geiger III[SMTP:whgiii@openpgp.net]
> Reply To: 	lacc@suburbia.net
> Sent: 	Tuesday, August 25, 1998 6:24 PM
> To: 	lacc@suburbia.net
> Cc: 	proff@suburbia.net; aucrypto@suburbia.net; cypherpunks@toad.com
> Subject: 	LACC: Re: Is hate code speech?
> 
> 
> 
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> 
> In , on 08/25/98 
>    at 04:19 PM, Xcott Craver  said:
> 
> >On Tue, 25 Aug 1998, William H. Geiger III wrote:
> 
> >>  Now we have to worry about PC variable and function names. What
> a
> >> crock. 
> 
> >	Oh, yeah, you really have to worry about *accidentally*
> >	calling your variables getwatermelons and somefriedchicken.
> >	Reminds me of this one guy in our neighborhood who was just
> >	jogging by our house, bent down to tie a shoelace, lost 
> >	his balance and accidentally planted a huge burning cross
> >	in our front lawn.  Woops!  Those damn PC-mongers are 
> >	making it a crime to jog!
> 
> Yes and if I want to name my variables getwatermelons and somefiredchicken
> who are you to tell me I can't?
> 
> >	One note:  I don't see why this lawsuit would be hard to win
> >	on the grounds that source code isn't necessarily "speech."
> >	If co-workers left a big wooden swastika on her desk it 
> >	wouldn't be speech either, but I'd call that actionable.	
> 
> But they didn't. There is no proof that any of theses variable names were
> written to be directed at her and the majority of them were written
> *before* she ever started working there!!
> 
> - -- 
> - ---------------------------------------------------------------
> William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
> Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0
> 
> Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
> PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
> OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
> - ---------------------------------------------------------------
>  
> Tag-O-Matic: OS/2: Not just another pretty program loader!
> 
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> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 12:33:01 -0700 (PDT)
To: Dan Stromberg 
Subject: Re: LACC: Re: Is hate code speech?
In-Reply-To: <35E45A31.1CD2@nis.acs.uci.edu>
Message-ID: <199808261937.OAA017.62@geiger.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In <35E45A31.1CD2@nis.acs.uci.edu>, on 08/26/98 
   at 11:55 AM, Dan Stromberg  said:

>> Also please explain exactly what "violent stuff" you are in reference to
>> and how it is "clear cut".

>Violence is obviously out of line.  Or do you like being threatened?

No where in the article was it ever mentioned that the you lady in
question was ever threatened or ever directly "harassed". That is why I
asked the above question which you failed to answer.

>> >Creating a hostile environment with the expectation that you'll never
>> >hire someone who's black is "ok"?
>> 
>> 1st off the whole notion of "hostile environment" is bunk. It is a loosely
>> undefined term to mean anything the PC crowd wants it to. If you do or say

>I can see you're not worth bothering with.
>Sad that I wasted this much time responding.

Why, because I challenge your PC dogma and require to to rationally
justify it? We have an old saying here "If you are scared son, then say
you are scared". If you are unable to rationally and objectively justify
your PC dogma than just say so.

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: Turn your 486 into a Gameboy: Type WIN at C:\>

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ray Arachelian 
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 11:44:59 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re:
In-Reply-To: <199808261740.TAA08755@replay.com>
Message-ID: <35E45684.BA1CC753@brainlink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Anonymous wrote:
> 
> http://www.itd.nrl.navy.mil/ITD/5540/ieee/cipher/news-items/980713.LISTWATCH
> .html
> 
> My online review of this list and others.
> 
> Mary Ellen Zurko
> "We will be obliged to take action ourselves" -Gore on privacy


Sorry Anon, but that url 404's... Perhaps you could try again?

-- 

=====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos==============
.+.^.+.|  Ray Arachelian    |Prying open my 3rd eye.  So good to see |./|\.
..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were      |/\|/\
<--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run  |\/|\/
../|\..| "A toast to Odin,  |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/.
.+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were....            |.....
======================= http://www.sundernet.com ==========================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ray Arachelian 
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 12:22:29 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re:
In-Reply-To: <199808261740.TAA08755@replay.com>
Message-ID: <35E45F4D.B9E37A67@brainlink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Erm, sorry, replied to that a bit too quick. :(  Should have seen the 2nd line.
:( 

My bad.

Ray Arachelian wrote:
> 
> Anonymous wrote:
> >
> > http://www.itd.nrl.navy.mil/ITD/5540/ieee/cipher/news-items/980713.LISTWATCH
> > .html
> >
> > My online review of this list and others.
> >
> > Mary Ellen Zurko
> > "We will be obliged to take action ourselves" -Gore on privacy
> 
> Sorry Anon, but that url 404's... Perhaps you could try again?
> 
> --
> 
> =====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos==============
> .+.^.+.|  Ray Arachelian    |Prying open my 3rd eye.  So good to see |./|\.
> ..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were      |/\|/\
> <--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run  |\/|\/
> ../|\..| "A toast to Odin,  |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/.
> .+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were....            |.....
> ======================= http://www.sundernet.com ==========================

-- 

=====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos==============
.+.^.+.|  Ray Arachelian    |Prying open my 3rd eye.  So good to see |./|\.
..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were      |/\|/\
<--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run  |\/|\/
../|\..| "A toast to Odin,  |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/.
.+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were....            |.....
======================= http://www.sundernet.com ==========================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Xcott Craver 
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 13:59:18 -0700 (PDT)
To: "William H. Geiger III" 
Subject: Re: Is Hate Code Speech?
In-Reply-To: <199808261919.OAA016.99@geiger.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Wed, 26 Aug 1998, William H. Geiger III wrote:

> >	Not trying to equate harassment with a severe beating, just
> >	pointing out that the lack of an explicit constitutional 
> >	right does not magically nullify the rest of the law.
> 
> No, it does not, but unlike beating I *do* have a Constitutional right to
> be objectionable as I want with my speech.

	Right.  And other people have a legal recourse against
	you if your free speech does something tangibly damaging.
	Inciting a riot, for instance, or commiting slander, or
	committing mail fraud.  

	Now, something not tangibly damaging, like harassment,
	is not so clear cut.  But that's why a judge or jury of 
	your peers has to agree before you're forced to pay damages.

> A good example is the Nazi march in Skokie,IL.  The SC ruled that they 
> had a right to march despite
> the fact that the large Jewish community there was quite offended by it.

	Yes.  And those same courts would consider it harassment if
	a manager in a company, which has nothing to do with Hitler or 
	Nazis, started cc-mailing anti-Jewish diatribe where Jewish
	employees would see it.  

> I see, so if a company and it's employees exercise their Constitutionally
> protect right of free speech and does not stop exercising that right when
> someone complains then the courts should take over?

	You seem to be painting this as the government "stepping in,"
	rather than one of the parties involved going TO the gov't
	(i.e., taking it to the courts) for help.  The answer to your 
	question is YES:  the whole reason civil law exists is so 
	you can resolve disputes that can't get resolved otherwise.

> How does this match
> with your agreement that the 1st Amendment protects unpopular speech?

	The same way libel laws coexist with the 1st Amendment.
	It's a gross oversimplification to believe that the 1st 
	amendment absolves you of all legal consequences of the things
	you say.  Do you consider libel law unconstitutional? 
	how about copyright law?  Do you think it's wrong that you
	can get in trouble for sending people death threats?
	Obscene phone calls?  Publishing _Jurassic Park_ in your
	name?  Telling people that you can cure their cancer for 
	$100 cash?

	Hey, it's all speech.

	Maybe in an alternate universe where the constitution is 
	scribbled in crayon on 1-inch ruled paper, you can say
	anything you want and neener-neener to anyone who gets
	hurt.  But here in objective reality it's much more 
	complex.
							-Caj




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Tatz 
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 14:44:19 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Is Hate Code Speech?
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Revolutionary idea! 

*If you don't like what the SOURCE CODE says.. WORK for another company!*


-Jim
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Don't take yourself too seriously." -Gary Allen Smith





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: games-register@yahoo-inc.com
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 18:55:43 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Registration confirmation - Yahoo! Games
Message-ID: <199808270155.SAA11172@e6.my.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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Please save this message for future reference.

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Xcott Craver 
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 17:14:47 -0700 (PDT)
To: Jim Tatz 
Subject: Re: Is Hate Code Speech?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Wed, 26 Aug 1998, Jim Tatz wrote:

> Revolutionary idea! 
> 
> *If you don't like what the SOURCE CODE says.. WORK for another company!*

	Ditto if you don't like the pay, or the way the boss keeps
	feeling you up, or that one catwalk over the chemical vats
	with the loose rivets that you have to stand on.

	I'm sure if it was as easy as just walking out of one job into
	a better one there would be no minimum wage, "harassment" in
	the workplace, labor unions or huge fines for companies who
	maintain grossly dangerous work environments.  Clearly, then,
	it ain't that easy.

							=Caj





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 10:40:57 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199808261740.TAA08755@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


http://www.itd.nrl.navy.mil/ITD/5540/ieee/cipher/news-items/980713.LISTWATCH
.html

My online review of this list and others.


Mary Ellen Zurko
"We will be obliged to take action ourselves" -Gore on privacy








  








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mok-Kong Shen 
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 10:42:04 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Programmer faces grand jury for posting encryption
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <35E448E3.C5DEA971@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Martin Minow wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Posted at 12:26 a.m. PDT Wednesday, August 26, 1998
> 
> Programmer on hot  seat for posting encryption software
> BY K. OANH HAMercury News Staff
> 
> ''Writer A Sunnyvale software programmer who posted strong encryption
> software on the Internet faces a grand jury hearing today to determine
> whether he should stand trial for violating federal export laws.Charles
> Booher, 39, said he's within his constitutional rights to ``express
> himself'' by posting the data-scrambling software, which is three times
> stronger than a current government standard. If indicted, Booher's case
> would represent the fourth legal challenge in seven years to the federal
> government's curb on exporting encryption technology. The case is 

It would be interesting to know how the grand jury determines
the 'three' in 'three times stronger'.

M. K. Shen




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Dutra de Lacerda 
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 12:41:15 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks-unedited@toad.com
Subject: McCarthy return under new clothes
Message-ID: <199808261941.UAA07691@mail2.ip.pt>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




In article , 
LA@capital.demon.co.uk said...

> From the BBC's online network
> Thursday, August 13, 1998 Published at 18:12 GMT 19:12 UK 
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_150000/150465.stm
> 
> By Internet Correspondent Chris Nuttall 
> 
> IT journalist Kenneth Neil Cukier found his laptop the target of a 
> Customs and Excise swoop when he stepped off the Eurostar shuttle 
> from Paris at London's Waterloo station last Friday. 

I now have the text of the original posting. Not all of you may have 
seen it. Although it contains some repition, there is additional 
remarks which some may find of interest - Ian.

From: Declan McCullagh 
Subject: FC: Searched at UK Border for Net Porn
Posted to Declan McCullagh's Politech mailing list
Politech is at http://www.well.com/~declan/politech/

[from dave farber's ip list]

---------- Forwarded message ----------

Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 14:18:12 -0400
From: "K. N. Cukier" <100736.3602@compuserve.com>
Subject: Searched at UK Border for Net Porn
Sender: "K. N. Cukier" <100736.3602@compuserve.com>

Dave,

Some days its a bad hair day, other days you see the suite of Western
values since the Enlightenment quashed in an instant by a single, 
soulless, civil servant. Here's what happened to me last Friday when 
I arrived in London from Paris on the channel tunnel train:

As I walked through UK immigration, two guys pulled me aside, flashed
badges, and said: "UK Customs. Come with us." They walked me behind a 
wall where they handed me off to one of a fleet of waiting agents.

A customs officer told me to lay my computer bag on the table, and
inspected my ticket and passport. After learning I was a reporter, 
she demanded to see my press card (issued by the French Ministry of 
Foreign Affairs), and asked about where I was going in London, why, 
and for how long.

"Do you know there are things that are illegal to bring into the UK?" 
she asked.

"Uh, yeah.... There are *many* things that are illegal to bring 
across borders -- do you have in mind any thing in particular?," I 
said.

"Illegal drugs, fire arms, bomb making materials, lewd and obscene
pornographic material...."

I felt a rush of relief. I was late and now was assured I could get 
on with my journey. "I am carrying none of that," I replied, staring 
directly at her, with a tone of earnest seriousness.

"Is that a computer in your bag?"

"Yes."

"Does it have Internet on in?"

Here, I confess, I really didn't know how to answer. What does one 
say to a question like that?? I was struck dumb. "I use the computer 
to access the Internet, yes," I said, rather proud of myself for my 
accuracy.

"Is there any pornography on it?" she said, stoically.

Here, I figured out what's going on. But I'm mentally paralyzed from 
all the synapses sparkling all at once in my head: Does she not 
understand that Internet content is distributed around the world? 
That I'm just dialing a local number, be it in France or the UK, and 
that whether I cross a border is moot to what I'm able to access?

"There is no pornography stored on the hard drive," I stated.

"Do you mind if I check." she says rather than asks, and begins to 
take the computer out of the bag. "I'm just going to hook it up over 
there and scan the hard drive..." she continues.

And then her face turns dour. "Oh! It's an Apple," she says, 
dejectedly. "Our scanner doesn't work on Apples."

At this point, it's all a little bit too much, too fast, for me to 
handle.

>From seeing my personal privacy ripped out from under me with a
computer-enema to an immediate about-face and witnessing my 
oppressors flounder in the pap of their own incompetence was just too 
much to bear.

Then, of course, I sort of relished the irony of it all. I swung into
naive-mode:

"Oh. Oh well," I said and began packing up. "Why not?"

"I dunno -- it just doesn't," she said.

"Is this a common thing that you do? Scan PCs?"

"It happens quite often," she said. (Note: I wrote this entire 
dialogue immediately after the incident, but that particular quote I 
wrote the moment we parted, to have it exactly right.)

"Do you catch a lot?"

"Sometimes," she says, cautiously.

What's the fine? The penalty?" I asked.

She started to become uncomfortable and tried to move me along. "It
depends. Every case is different. It depends what they have."

"What about if I had encryption -- do you check for that too?" I 
said, disdaining the risk that she might want to check the computer 
"by hand" since I'd mentioned the dreaded C-word....

"Huh?! I don't know about that...."

"You don't know what cryptography is?" I asked.

"No. Thank you, you can go now," she said.

And thus ended my experience with inspector "K. PARE_," whose name 
tag was partially torn at the final one or two letters of her last 
name.

Of course I was burning up. Lots of thoughts raced through me.

For example, would I have really let her inspect my hard drive, even
knowing I was "innocent." That, of course, was entirely irrelevant to 
me -- it's about a principle. I thought of my editor -- or ex-editor 
-- if I didn't make the day-long meeting. And I immediately thought 
of John Gilmore, and how much I respected him when he refused to 
board a flight a few years ago when the airline demanded he present a 
form of identification. Had I acquiesced to their mental thuggery?

As soon as I realized I was "safe" from being scanned, I was tempted 
to pull out my notepad, go into reporter-mode, and make a small scene 
getting names and superiors and formal writs of whatever.... but 
suspected it would only get me locked in a room for a full day.

Then I thought of how, despite in their kafakain zeal to abuse my 
privacy, they couldn't even get that right. Not only did they not 
have a clue what the Internet is, they confirmed their ignorance by 
not even being able to digitally pat me down. Insult to injury! It 
brought back something John Perry Barlow once told me about why he 
doesn't fear US intelligence agencies. "I've seen them from the 
inside," he said (as I recall), "they will suffer under the weight of 
their own ineptitude."

What's at the heart of this is "thought crime"; and scanning one's 
computer is paramount to search and seizure of one's intellectual 
activity. What if they found subversive literature about the proper 
role of government authority in civil society? Would that have gotten 
me busted? And do they store what they scan? Are business executives 
with marketing plans willing to have their data inspected under the 
umbrella of public safety from porn?

Just the night before I read in the memoirs of William Shirer, who 
wrote The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, about how he was 
blacklisted for a decade after his name was cited in Red Currents, a 
magazine that destroyed hundreds of careers during the McCarthy era. 
He was powerless to defend himself.

I see parallels: We are approaching the point were we are incapable 
of reasonable discourse on Internet content. Refuse to boot up for 
inspection means you've got something to hide. Defend civil liberties 
of the accused means you condone guilty acts. Question the nature of 
the censorious policies in the first place means you are filthy, and 
as unhealthy as the wily-eyed porn devourer.... State the obvious: 
That a large part of the drive for Net content regulation is driven 
by hucksters seeking recognition, and that it is taken to idiotic 
extremes by a mass movement of simpletons ignorant of the history of 
hysteria in the US, and, well, you're just a typical lawless 
cyberlibertian.

Finally, it dawned in me. This wasn't an aberration at all, but part 
of a much deeper trend. It's a British thing, really.

"As might be supposed I have not had the time, not may I add the
inclination to read through this book," wrote Sir Archibald Bodkin, 
the director of public prosecutions, on 29 December 1922. "I have, 
however, read pages 690 to 732 ... written as they are, as it 
composed by a more or less illiterate vulgar woman ... there is a 
great deal of unmitigated filth and obscenity."

And so James Joyce's Ulysses was banned in Britain for 15 years.

Interesting, that. The policy was made by a chap who didn't actually 
read the work he felt justified to prohibit others from reading. 
Wonder if the fellows who implemented Britain's scan-for-skin policy 
actually use the Net themselves...?

Kenneth Neil Cukier <100736.3602@compuserve.com>
Singapore, 11 August 1998

(No, I was not stopped by customs officials here. But this e-mail was 
sent out via government-mandated proxy servers)

--

 - - - 
Antonio Manuel Melo de Carvalho Dutra de Lacerda
Morada		: Rua Rodrigues Cabrilho, 5 - 5 Esq.
		  1400 Lisboa, PORTUGAL
Telefone	: +351-(1)-3013579
FAX & BBS	: +351-(1)-3021098




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Kurt Buff" 
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 22:07:50 -0700 (PDT)
To: "'Francis, Catherine'" 
Subject: RE: LACC: Re: Is hate code speech?
In-Reply-To: <6B5344C210C7D011835C0000F8012766020BB4B0@exna01.securitydynamics.com>
Message-ID: <002a01bdd178$6b04cf80$1b01010a@boar.minuteman.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Sorry, but you've got it slightly wrong, or maybe you don't...

|
| I'm sorry to digress, since this isn't why the article was originally
| posted, but I was forced to succumb to the troll.  Free
| speech is essential
| in an open society.   Freedom from discrimination is essential in a
| democracy.   Carry on.

"Free speech is essential in an open society." Yup, true enough.

"Freedom from discrimination is essential in a democracy." Well, maybe.

I do take notice of your change in terms, there. All democracy means is mob
rule. We don't live in a democracy, and I think you should be glad you
don't.

Frankly, I think a better observation would follow the form of your first
one - "Freedom to discriminate is essential in an open society."

The phrase "Freedom from..." has always meant a curtailing of freedom, in my
experience.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Reeza! 
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 07:17:54 -0700 (PDT)
To: "William H. Geiger III" 
Subject: Re: Is hate code speech?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980827001643.0089fe60@205.83.192.13>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 05:24 PM 8/25/98 -0500, William H. Geiger III wrote:
>   at 04:19 PM, Xcott Craver  said:
>>On Tue, 25 Aug 1998, William H. Geiger III wrote:
>
>Yes and if I want to name my variables getwatermelons and somefiredchicken
>who are you to tell me I can't?
>
>>	One note:  I don't see why this lawsuit would be hard to win
>>	on the grounds that source code isn't necessarily "speech."
>>	If co-workers left a big wooden swastika on her desk it 
>>	wouldn't be speech either, but I'd call that actionable.	
>
>But they didn't. There is no proof that any of theses variable names were
>written to be directed at her and the majority of them were written
>*before* she ever started working there!!
>

Is a swastika on a billboard anywhere in the US objectionable? Is it
actionable? By the same Token, By the same Rule. Source code has freely
assignable variables, but I sincerely doubt that the originator of the
prog. lang. thought watermelons, ribs, or chicken were appropriate variable
names.

Sis in your own Backyard, Pister. 

Got Milk???

Reeza!

	Near famous misquotes, taken out of context:

	"Dammit kid, how do you expect to learn anything if you insist that
	 I make sense all the time,,,"




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: jkthomson 
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 02:54:57 -0700 (PDT)
To: Dan Stromberg 
Subject: Re: LACC: Re: Is hate code speech?
In-Reply-To: <199808261937.OAA017.62@geiger.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980827025504.006bcd80@dowco.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 12:42 PM 8/26/98 -0700, Dan Stromberg wrote:
>William H. Geiger III wrote:
>> >Sad that I wasted this much time responding.
>> 
>> Why, because I challenge your PC dogma and require to to rationally
>> justify it? We have an old saying here "If you are scared son, then say
>> you are scared". If you are unable to rationally and objectively justify
>> your PC dogma than just say so.
>
>Smirk.  /I'm terrified/  I've said it before, and I'll say it again:
>
>Never wrestle with a pig.  You both get dirty, and the pig likes it.


oh yes, an EXCELLENT justification of your 'PC beliefs'  How exactly does
that answer the challenge to defend your point of view?  Ad hominem attacks
are pretty low, even for list-members, think-ye-not?




-----------------------------------------------------------------------
 james 'keith' thomson   www.bigfoot.com/~ceildh
 jkthomson:C181 991A 405C EAFB 2C46 79B5 B1DC DB78 8196 122D [06.07.98]
 ceildh   :1D79 59AF ED75 5945 6003 8240 DA34 ACCA 9DE4 6BC9 [05.14.98]
 ICQ:746241  at pgp.mit.edu     ...and former sysop of tnbnog BBS
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jennings Corollary to the Law of Selective Gravity:
  The chance of the bread falling with the butter side down
  is directly proportional to the value of the carpet.
=======================================================================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 19:37:17 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: LACC: Re: Is hate code speech?
Message-ID: <199808270237.EAA21620@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Wed, 26 Aug 1998, Dan Stromberg wrote:

> 
> William H. Geiger III wrote:
> > >Sad that I wasted this much time responding.
> > 
> > Why, because I challenge your PC dogma and require to to rationally
> > justify it? We have an old saying here "If you are scared son, then say
> > you are scared". If you are unable to rationally and objectively justify
> > your PC dogma than just say so.
> 
> Smirk.  /I'm terrified/  I've said it before, and I'll say it again:
> 
> Never wrestle with a pig.  You both get dirty, and the pig likes it.

That's why I'm not wrestling with you. I'll just get dirty, and you'll
enjoy it.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Brown, R Ken" 
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 02:39:03 -0700 (PDT)
To: mok-kong.shen@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
Subject: RE: Programmer faces grand jury for posting encryption
Message-ID: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F83C9@MSX11002>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Mok-Kong Shen wrote:

> It would be interesting to know how the grand jury 
> determines the 'three' in 'three times stronger'.

Obviously the key was 1.5 bits longer :-)

Ken








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Brown, R Ken" 
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 02:52:32 -0700 (PDT)
To: sunder@brainlink.com>
Subject: RE:
Message-ID: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F83CA@MSX11002>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


> Ray Arachelian[SMTP:sunder@brainlink.com] wrote: 
> 
> Anonymous wrote:
> >> 
> >>
> http://www.itd.nrl.navy.mil/ITD/5540/ieee/cipher/news-items/980713.LIS
> TWATCH
> >> .html
> 
[...snip...]

>Sorry Anon, but that url 404's... Perhaps you could try again?

It works if you put the ".html" on the next line in the URL

New nifty way to foil the hackers - put line-breaks in your code!
They'll never suss it!

Actually  I didn't notice at first  either - I just sropped the last 
directory name of the URL and looked at the level above  - 
it's been a sort of reflex action of mine on the web for years.
Nice to see a navy site allowing us to browse their directories though
:-)

The "listwatch" is a very short summary of some of the less wibblish
threads in cypherpunks, risks et.c - it is about 6 weeks out of
date, nothing new there since it was last mentioned here. 

So I don't know why it was brought up again.

Ken 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: jdean1@nomvs.lsumc.edu
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 04:46:31 -0700 (PDT)
To: dulac@ip.pt
Subject: Re: McCarthy return under new clothes
In-Reply-To: <199808261941.UAA07691@mail2.ip.pt>
Message-ID: <19980827064602846@nomvs.lsumc.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Are you sure there was nothing that could be construed as pornographic
on your PC?  Nothing in the cache?  Nothing deleted but not overwritten?
Nothing hiding in the unused space as the end of a sector?  Have you
never accessed a page only to find it contains pornography (or an ad for
the same)?




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: RealNetworks News 
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 06:55:18 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Store music CDs in CD-quality RealAudio!
Message-ID: <199808271355.GAA18087@dmail4.real-net.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mok-Kong Shen 
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 00:49:44 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re:
In-Reply-To: <199808261740.TAA08755@replay.com>
Message-ID: <35E50F90.7B46EFA8@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Anonymous wrote:
> 
> http://www.itd.nrl.navy.mil/ITD/5540/ieee/cipher/news-items/980713.LISTWATCH
> .html
> 
> My online review of this list and others.

Access of this led to the error message '404 Not Found' !!!!!

M. K. Shen

------------------------------------------------------
M. K. Shen, Postfach 340238, D-80099 Muenchen, Germany
+49 (89) 831939   (6:00 GMT)
mok-kong.shen@stud.uni-muenchen.de
http://www.stud.uni-muenchen.de/~mok-kong.shen/
(last updated: 25th August 98.  origin site of WEAK1, WEAK2 and WEAK3.)
(containing 2 mathematical problems with rewards totalling US$500)




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: user@sample.com
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 20:00:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199808271450.KAA32526@compuserve.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


MAIL FROM: 
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 21:47:29
From: adejh@mailcity.com.
To: 
Subject: AUGUST MAILING LIST


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Wilhelm Klink 
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 10:59:44 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Is Hate Code Speech?
Message-ID: <19980827175716.7401.rocketmail@send1e.yahoomail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


caj@math.niu.edu said:

>  Now, something not tangibly damaging, like harassment, is not so
>  clear cut.  But that's why a judge or jury of your peers has to agree
>  before you're forced to pay damages.

You should ask Judge Wright about this one.  She threw out Paula Jones'
case because Paula hadn't even PRESENTED any damages done to her.  She
may well have been "harassed" and Bubba may have done exactly what she
said, but she was not harmed in any tangible way.

--
Yours,
Col. Willhelm Klink

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Bernardo B. Terrado" 
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 20:28:38 -0700 (PDT)
To: Chip 
Subject: Re:
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



What's in there?
===============================================================================
It's funny, I have always been a good 
	listener who understood and cared
		someones secrets, but to my dismay 
			I have never been understood.


metaphone@altavista.net

On Wed, 26 Aug 1998, Chip wrote:

> > Anonymous wrote:
> > > 
> > > http://www.itd.nrl.navy.mil/ITD/5540/ieee/cipher/news-items/980713.LISTWATCH
> > > .html
> > > 
> > > My online review of this list and others.
> > > 
> > > Mary Ellen Zurko
> > > "We will be obliged to take action ourselves" -Gore on privacy
> > 
> > 
> > Sorry Anon, but that url 404's... Perhaps you could try again?
> 
> perhaps you could try:
> 
> http://www.itd.nrl.navy.mil/ITD/5540/ieee/cipher/news-items/980713.LISTWATCH.html
> 
> don't give up so easily  =)
> 
> 
> 
> ---
> The above comment is not necessarily that of the author.
> Chip is chip@chipware.net - PGP, ICQ, PINE, LINUX, YEAH BABY!
> Fremont, California, USA, Earth, Sol ~ http://www.chipware.net
> 
> 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Xcott Craver 
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 09:54:03 -0700 (PDT)
To: jdean1@nomvs.lsumc.edu
Subject: Re: McCarthy return under new clothes
In-Reply-To: <19980827064602846@nomvs.lsumc.edu>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On 27 Aug 1998 jdean1@nomvs.lsumc.edu wrote:

> Are you sure there was nothing that could be construed as pornographic
> on your PC?  Nothing in the cache?  Nothing deleted but not overwritten?
> Nothing hiding in the unused space as the end of a sector?  Have you
> never accessed a page only to find it contains pornography (or an ad for
> the same)?

	Further, as the net becomes more and more integrated with
	your OS, to the point that FTP/HTTP sites are accessable from your
	command-line prompt as if they were just really slow drives, 
	will we see some truly clueless customs officials arrest you
	because they can find the Playboy site *in* your computer?
	
	And how about random noise?  Random strings could be ciphertext.
	If I design PRNGs, and have my laptop drive stuffed with huge
	random files for DIEHARD analysis, would that one day be 
	illegal to carry across a border?

	From an information-theoretic perspective, we have the asymptotic
	equipartition property telling us that almost all strings are almost 
	equally extremely suspicious.  Will a dartboard w/ the alphabet on it
	be vanishingly unlikely to generate a message one could legally
	carry outside the US?

							-Caj




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Wilhelm Klink 
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 12:42:08 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Hate Code in Unix
Message-ID: <19980827192236.4788.rocketmail@send1b.yahoomail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


                    Top Ten Offensive Things in Unix

10.  Sexist documentation.  Command to read a document: "man"

 9.  unix creates a hostile work environment for eunuchs
 
 8.  daemon, clearly nod to Satan himself.
 
 7.  Violent commands, like "kill".
 
 6.  Pornographic commands, like "head".
 
 5.  Suggestive commands, like "tail".
 
 4.  Pornographic subroutines: XGraphicsExposeEvent
 
 3.  GUI rated not suitable for Children: X
 
 2.  More violence: "bash".
 
 1.  "man sex" responds with "no manual entry for sex".

--
Yours,
Col. William Klink

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: CTIA Daily News 
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 11:48:11 -0700 (PDT)
To: CTIA Daily News 
Subject: CTIA Daily News from WOW-COM - August 27, 1998
Message-ID: <199808271803.NAA00373@mailstrom.revnet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary..3995.1071713796.multipart/mixed"

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==========================================
Welcome to today's edition of the CTIA Daily News
from WOW-COM.  Please click on the icon / attachment
for the most important news in wireless communications today.

A new multi-billion dollar industry is here! 
Be at CTIA's WIRELESS I.T. '98
where personal computing and communications converge!

Don't Miss Your Chance -- October 12-14, 1998
Bally's Las Vegas, Las Vegas, NV

For more information, visit http://www.wirelessit.com 
===========================================
 




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Pgo=
--Boundary..3995.1071713796.multipart/mixed--



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: stan@net.com (Stan Heller)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 14:44:45 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Crypto law in Taiwan
Message-ID: <199808272147.OAA03344@shakespeare.net.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Hello,

I was referred to you by Bert-Jaap Koops regarding some
advice on the legality of using PGP in Taiwan. I would 
be interested if someone knows what the law is and whether
there is preferred version of PGP ( the international version
I assume) that I should you. 

Any information you might have in this regard would be 
appreciated.


				=stan

Stan Heller		stan@net.com
Senior Systems Administrator
Network Equipment Technologies
(510) 574-2514





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED NEWS DAILY 
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 20:30:48 -0700 (PDT)
To: (STUFFED THURSDAY AUGUST 27 1998)
Subject: Man with a permanent lump in his pants/OVER 20 FREE HI-RES JPG PHOTOS
Message-ID: <19980827180935.2168.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


We continue as we mean to go on with 20+ hot, hi-res photos...

+ HOT 'N' SEXY STORIES
+ FACTUAL SEX GUIDES (VERY USEFUL INFO)
+ OUTRAGEOUSLY FUNNY AND SEXY STORIES
+ *YOUR* TRUE SEX SECRETS YOU'VE BEEN SENDING US (HOT!)
+ LOADS & LOADS MORE SEXY STUFF!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/98/8/27/   <----

Welcome to  today's  issue of Stuffed. To read it you should
click on the URL above.  If it is not made clickable by your
email program  you will need to  use your mouse to highlight
the URL,  copy it and then paste it into your browser  (then
press Return).

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/98/8/27/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 18:21:44 -0700 (PDT)
To: abumujahid@taliban.com
Subject: careful reading
Message-ID: <35E604E3.52CB@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Thursday 8/27/98 7:08 PM

Charles R Smith http://www.us.net/softwar/

I am reading http://www.us.net/softwar/plight.html

hardcopy REAL CAREFULLY.  With a yellow highligher.

Goal is to help each other out. 

I think I see some problems, but nothing FATAL.

I think I see some FATAL deficiencies at

ht.//csrc.nist.gov/encryption/aes/round1/docs.htm

So let's all continue to THINK.  And help EACH OTHER.

bill






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Dutra de Lacerda 
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 12:05:21 -0700 (PDT)
To: Xcott Craver 
Subject: Re: McCarthy return under new clothes
In-Reply-To: <19980827064602846@nomvs.lsumc.edu>
Message-ID: <199808271904.UAA01733@mail2.ip.pt>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At Thursday, you wrote:
> Are you sure there was nothing that could be construed as pornographic
> on your PC?  Nothing in the cache?  Nothing deleted but not overwritten?
> Nothing hiding in the unused space as the end of a sector?  Have you
> never accessed a page only to find it contains pornography (or an ad for
> the same)?

I feel the puzzling question will be: 
	Is the information one's carry in one's head much different
	from the info on a disk?!? It is certainly smaller, but much
	more powerful. 
Besides: This question reflects the absurdity of the actual search 
	for 'virtual crimes'... and will these 'virtual crimes' have
	'virtual punishments'? To this last question the answer is NO.
	The schizoid trend is to treat virtuality as real thing.

	
>	And how about random noise?  Random strings could be ciphertext.
>	If I design PRNGs, and have my laptop drive stuffed with huge
>	random files for DIEHARD analysis, would that one day be 
>	illegal to carry across a border?

No one knows were social insanity, as this, will lead us.
It's starting to have some similarities with the 'Witches Hunt'
in the Middle Ages though. The volume of people using technology
without its understanding of it implications is greater then ever.
Specially in the political population. I subscribe the analysis 
that human kind is NOT rational but 'guts' orientated. 
What the result will be in the long term is uncertain.

I guess all attempts to drive this kind of new beast will fail in
the long run. People needed 2000 years to build a civilization.
The last 50 years are destroying all the cultural links to this
past. What will happen may, most probably, be the disruption of
society as we know it... And all started with the economics 
becoming the #1 motor of societies instead of subordinated to
'quality of life'. 


> From an information-theoretic perspective, we have the asymptotic
> equipartition property telling us that almost all strings are almost 
> equally extremely suspicious.  Will a dartboard w/ the alphabet on it
> be vanishingly unlikely to generate a message one could legally
> carry outside the US?

Again the Brain/Disk paradox. Perhaps a brain has no political useful
information... That would be a change in past events i don't believe.

There's a significant pattern in this strange behavior:
	Absence of sense and contradictory aspects.
These are dangerous generators of errors in ones comprehension.
So its easy to predict a lot of confusion in the future. Specially 
to future generations that did not lived past values. 

Time will tell.

DuLac.

P.S. - I do not subscribe the notion that 'ideas' drive the world.
	A reason for this is that we humans make a complex body of
	iterations and are emotional creatures. Not rational ones.
       This moves the center of the problem to 'culture', as ones
	terrain of conduct, and to personality of leaders, as they 
	are the 'usual conduct' main changers. 

	Hitler would, today and again, get himself elected but this 
 	time with a greatly modified strategy:  He would be kissing 
	children and talking about Peace, the New Words people like 
	to hear.  This leads to the question:  How many new Hitlers 
	have we elected in the last years?   And how to distinguish 
	them from honest citizens? TIP: Honest citizens rarely have 
	the ability to use dirty tricks and get themselves elected.
	


 - - - 
Antonio Manuel Melo de Carvalho Dutra de Lacerda
Morada		: Rua Rodrigues Cabrilho, 5 - 5 Esq.
		  1400 Lisboa, PORTUGAL
Telefone	: +351-(1)-3013579
FAX & BBS	: +351-(1)-3021098




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Wm. Michael Denney" 
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 00:29:22 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Cafe Gulag
Message-ID: <35E655C4.C7C0037F@pacbell.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Msg for Jim Choate...

Contact Larry Joe Dowling at 512-892-3393.


from TOTO





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Interstate 95 
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 17:42:01 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: Re: Hate Code in Unix
Message-ID: <19980828004151.18389.qmail@nym.alias.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Thu, 27 Aug 1998, Wilhelm Klink wrote:

> 
>                     Top Ten Offensive Things in Unix
>
>  1.  "man sex" responds with "no manual entry for sex".


SEX(1)              EUNUCH Programmer's Manual             SEX(1)

NAME
       sex -- have sex

SYNOPSIS
       sex [options] ...  [username] ...

DESCRIPTION
       sex allows the invoker to have sex with the user(s) speci-
       fied in the command line.  If no users are specified, they
       are  taken  from the LOVERS environment variable.  Options
       to make things more interesting are as follows:

       -1     masturbate

       -a     external stimulus (aphrodisiac) option

       -b     buggery

       -B animal
              bestiality with animal

       -c     chocolate sauce option

       -C     chaining option (cuffs included) (see  also  -m  -s
              -W)

       -d file
              get a date with the features described in file

       -e     exhibitionism  (image  sent  to all machines on the
              net)

       -f     foreplay option

       -F     nasal sex with plants

       -i     coitus interruptus (messy!)

       -j     jacuzzi option (California sites only)

       -l     leather option

       -m     masochism (see -s)

       -M     triple parallel (Menage a Trois) option

       -n     necrophilia (if target process is not dead, program
              kills it)

       -o     oral option

       -O     parallel access (orgy)

       -p     debug option (proposition only)

                                                                1
       -m     masochism (see -s)

       -M     triple parallel (Menage a Trois) option

       -n     necrophilia (if target process is not dead, program
              kills it)

       -o     oral option

       -O     parallel access (orgy)

       -p     debug option (proposition only)

                                                                1

SEX(1)              EUNUCH Programmer's Manual             SEX(1)

       -P     pedophilia (must specify a child process)

       -q     quickie (wham, bam, thank you, ma'am)

       -s     sadism (target must set -m)

       -S     sundae option

       -v     voyeurism (surveys the entire net)

       -w     whipped cream option

       -W     whips (see also -s, -C, and -m)

ENVIRONMENT
       LOVERS is a list of default partners which will be used if
              none are specified in the command line.  If any are
              specified, the values in LOVERS is ignored.

FILES
       /usr/lib/sex/animals
              animals for bestiality

       /usr/lib/sex/blackbook
              possible dates

       /usr/lib/sex/sundaes
              sundae recipes

       /usr/lib/sex/s&m
              sado-masochistic equipment

BUGS
       ^C     (quit process) may leave the user very unsatisfied.

       ^Z     (stop process) is usually quite messy.

HISTORY
       Oldest program ever.

                                                                2








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: jdean1@nomvs.lsumc.edu
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 04:35:18 -0700 (PDT)
To: dulac@ip.pt
Subject: Re: McCarthy return under new clothes
In-Reply-To: <199808271904.UAA01733@mail2.ip.pt>
Message-ID: <19980828063447361@nomvs.lsumc.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


>  Is the information one's carry in one's head much different
>  from the info on a disk?!? It is certainly smaller, but much
>  more powerful.

The difference is custom officials don't have a scan tool for your
brain (yet).




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Bernardo B. Terrado" 
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 15:52:33 -0700 (PDT)
To: "Brown, R Ken" 
Subject: question...
In-Reply-To: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F83C9@MSX11002>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Could the FBI intervene with the NSA?

===============================================================================
It's funny, I have always been a good 
	listener who understood and cared
		someones secrets, but to my dismay 
			I have never been understood.


metaphone@altavista.net





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED NEWS DAILY 
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 14:41:13 -0700 (PDT)
To: (STUFFED FRIDAY AUGUST 28 1998)
Subject: OUR FREE PICS ARE GETTING HOTTER BY THE DAY!/Foot fetishist marries 14-toed bride
Message-ID: <19980828071000.23134.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


We've been getting stacks of new photos together. Here are
some of the first ones. Keeping the bulging pants down while
preparing today's issue was NOT easy!

+ INCREDIBLY HORNY SEXY STORY
+ HOW TO MAKE HER SAY "YES!"
+ OUTRAGEOUSLY FUNNY AND SEXY STORIES
+ OOH... ONE READER SENT US A SUPERB, LONG
  'TRUE SEX SECRET', WHICH WE PUBLISH TODAY
+ MORE GREAT STUFF THAN YOU CAN SHAKE A
  STICK AT!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/98/8/28/   <----

Welcome to  today's  issue of Stuffed. To read it you should
click on the URL above.  If it is not made clickable by your
email program  you will need to  use your mouse to highlight
the URL,  copy it and then paste it into your browser  (then
press Return).

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/98/8/28/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 09:45:03 -0700 (PDT)
To: armoral@flash.net
Subject: dow jones
Message-ID: <35E6DD65.2504@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Friday 8/28/98 10:07 AM

J Orlin Grabbe

You may have gotten it TOO RIGHT

http://www.aci.net/kalliste/apocalyp.htm

Morales and I met.

We got a response from a deputy clerk to our attached letter.

No form for 54(b) certification and no examples.

We have a plan of what to include in our response to 

  http://www.jya.com/chrysler98.htm

AND 54(b) certification.

We see that we can respond by e-mail.

  e-mail: vhardy@detroit.bozell.com

But we'll use certified snail mail too.

Reporter Spohn of the ABQ Trib  
  
  1990 Lawrence Spohn, Albuquerque Tribune     
http://www.aaas.org/AAAS/awards.html
  http://www.atiin.com/atiin/tribune.htm  
  http://www.abqtrib.com 

told me he is going to make FOIA requests for the invoices NSA spent or
wasted funding public key cryptography chips TOO.

Morales and I also discussed our up-coming NSA fee waiver lawsuit. 

  NSA  deputy director Barbara McNamara's  wrote me a letter dated
19     August  1998.  http://www.nsa.gov:8080/mission.html

  McNamara wrote,

  The key issue I considered in my review is whether disclosure of
the    information is likely to contribute to the public understanding
of the   operations or activities of the government. ...

  This response may be construed as a denial of your appeal.           
Accordingly, you are hereby advised to your right to seek judicial     
review of my decision pursuant to 5 U.S.C. § 552(a)(4)
  (B) in the United States District Court in the district in which
you    reside, in which you have your principal place of business, in
which    the Agency's records are situated (U.S. District Court of
Maryland),    or in the District of Columbia. 

We've learned a lot with our current NSA lawsuit.  So the NEXT lawsuit
should be more devastating for the government.

But let's hope we get this UNFORTUNATE matter settled so that we
can move on to other projects.

I miss the economic articles you post from throughout the world.
http://www.aci.net/kalliste/

What's happening is not your fault.  You are merely a message-deliverer.

Later
bill


Tuesday 8/18/98 7:33 AM

Certified   Return receipt requested

Robert M. March, Clerk
United States District Court
Office of the Clerk
POB 2384
US Courthouse
Santa Fe, NM 87504-2384

Dear clerk March:

Purposes of this letter are to

1 request a copy of a UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF NEW MEXICO Rule 
54(b) certification form if such form exists

2 request an example of a Rule 54(b) certification if such certification is submitted in non-standard form

3 ask for you to provide us with DISTRICT OF NEW MEXICO case citations for others required by the Tenth 
circuit to seek Rule 54(b) certification.

We could not find form referenced in 1 in LOCAL CIVIL RULES, UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT 
FOR THE DISTRICT OF NEW MEXICO or at  http://www.nmcourt.fed.us/dcdocs/ specifically 
http://www.nmcourt.fed.us/dcdocs/files/lcvrules.txt

We ask that you respond to this letter by September 1, 1998.

Nonresponse must be interpreted as

4  there is no Rule 54(b)form

5  there is no example of a Rule 54(b) non-standard form certification

6  there are no examples of Rule 54(b) certifications in the UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE 
DISTRICT OF NEW MEXICO.

Sincerely

  
William H. Payne             	   	 Arthur R. Morales
13015 Calle de Sandias NE          	 1024 Los Arboles NW
Albuquerque, NM 87111              	 Albuquerque, NM 87107       
  



Friday February 27, 1998 11:18 AM

By e-mail and US mail

Lieutenant General Kenneth A Minihan, USAF
Director, National Security Agency
National Security Agency
9800 Savage Road
Fort George G. Meade, MD 20755-6000

Dear General Minihan:

Purposes of the letter are to

1  request information under the Freedom of Information Act
2  explore settlement possibilities of our current lawsuit.

In about 1986 Sandia National Laboratories assigned me the 
task of  design and construction of a Comprehensive Test Ban 
Treaty seismic data authenticator.

In the initial stages of the project, Sandia cryptographer 
Gustavus Simmons attempted to convince both Sandia 
management and NSA employees Tom White, Mark Unkenholtz,
and Ed Georgio that a form of public key authentication should 
replace NSA employee Ronald Benincasa's National Seismic
Station/Unmaned Seismic Observatory 11-bit data authentication
algorithm.

My Sandia supervisor John Holovka and project leader H B [Jim]
Durham ordered me to write a paper explaining public key 
cryptography.

This paper,  RSA ENCRYPTION, along with my SAND report
describing my implementation of Benincasa's algorithm and
filings in our lawsuit, now appear on Internet at
http://www.jya.com/index.htm, click CRYPTOME, then OpEd,
then http://www.jya.com/whprsa.htm.

Sandia explored the merits of switching from Benincasa's
algorithm to a public key-based authentication method suggested
by Simmons.

For Sandia's evaluation of the merits of public key, electronic tagging,
and Bureau of Engraving and Printing projects ,  I bought for Sandia 
samples both the Cylink CY1024 and AT&T A & B two chip sets for
modulo m arithmetic computations.

NSA employee Tom White sent me a copy of the SECRET classified
NSA report on IBM's hardware public key chip FIREFLY.

I wrote in my tutorial paper

  RSA hardware computations

  The slow speed of software RSA computations plus the potential
  wide use prompted several companies to build chips which compute
  modular arithmetic to at least several hundred bits.  Most of
  these chips "cascade" to compute with a larger number of bits.

  Corporations involved in building these chips are

     1  IBM  Firefly

     2  AT&T

     3  Motorola (apparently a three chip set)

     4  Cylink   Pittway-First alert

     5  Sandia Labs (Algorithm M and predecessor chip)

  Details of the IBM chip is classified.  AT&T as of July 1987 has
  not released details of their chip.  Little information is
  available on the Motorola chip set.

  The Cylink chip is commercially available.  Its price dropped
  from $1,500 to $600 each in June 1987.  Data is transferred to
  and from the chip with serial shift register communication.

  The early Sandia chip was limited in speed.  The replacement
  chip is cascadeable, communicates with 8 or 16 bits parallel,
  matches the speed of the Cylink chip, but is not out of
  fabrication.

  Rumors circulate that there is about an order of magnitude
  performance difference between some of these chips.

  These hardware chips improve exponentiation speed about 3 orders
  of magnitude over software implementation benchmarked on an Intel
  8086 family microcomputer.

Whitfield Diffie writes about both the Cylink and Sandia chips.  And
is quoted at  http://www.aci.net/kalliste/nukearse.htm.

Sandia had terrible luck with its public key chips.  

I reported SOME of the troubles to Electronic Engineering Times editor Loring Wirbel [http://techweb.cmp.com/eet/823/] on March 23, 1994.

        Dr. John Wisniewski was a supervisor at Sandia's Center for
        Radiation-hardened Microelectronics.  Wisniewski was a graduate
        student at Washington State University in about 1975.  I was a
        professor at WSU.

        Wisniewski knows all about the failing Sandia chips in the nuclear
        arsenal.  I took notes on February 13, 1993.  Wisniewski reviewed
        the problems again for me.

             1    No quality initiative.  Each chip lot had a different
                  process.
             2    Overall yield - 40-50%.  Down to 10% after packaging.
             3    Metalization problems.  No planarization.  No flow of
                  glass.  Couldn't use high temperature.  Step coverage
                  problems.  Layed down over tension.  100% field returns
                  over several years.
             4    Sandia would store lots of parts for replacements.

        Sandia management made the decision to place low yield parts in
        the nuclear arsenal.  Sandia must meet DOD schedules management
        reasoned.  Hundreds of millions spent on CRM.  Sandia must show
        productivity.

        Wisniewski told me that low yield chip test survivors are those which
        the tests failed to detect failures.  Wisniewski will talk.  503-625-
        6408.  Wisniewski now works for Intel in Oregon.  Have Wisniewski
        tell you about the fire in the CRM clean room!

Sandia supervisor Jerry Allen later told me it cost $300,000 each to remove
Sandia's failing chips at Pantex from a nuclear bomb.

NSA apparently is biased toward hardware implementations of cryptographic
and authentication algorithms.  As opposed to software implementation.

NSA representatives and Sandia management decided not to use a public
key authentication scheme for its CTBT seismic data authenticator because
of all of the problems with implementing public key algorithms.

But NSA surely has spent MUCH MONEY on public key chip implementations.

NSA is promoting its Clipper crypto chips as described at http://cpsr.org/dox/clipper.html.

And we get some information about technical specifications of NSA's Clipper
chip at http://www.us.net/softwar/http://www.us.net/softwar/clip.html

  Clipper Chip Information

  MYK-78 CLIPPER CHIP ENCRYPTION/DECRYPTION  ON A CHIP 

     1 micron double level metal CMOS technology 
     0.35 watts power 
     28 pin plastic leaded chip carrier (PLCC) package 
     Transistor to transistor logic (TTL) interface 
     Chip ID, family key and device unique key are installed at programming. 
     Chip ID, family key and device unique key are installed at programming           facility and are completely transparent to the user.

Therefore, Under the provision of the Freedom of Information Act, 
5 USC 552, I am requesting access to: 

1  Copies of all invoices from

	A   AT&T
	B   Motorola
	C   IBM
	D  Sandia National Laboratories

to NSA for payments for developing ANY public key-related chips between January 1, 1980 and February 27, 1998.

2  Copies of all invoices to NSA from ANY corporation involved in development
of ANY Clipper chip-related hardware between January 1, 1980 and 
February 27, 1998.

The public has a right to know how much NSA spent on TRYING monoploize the crypto
business.

If there are any fees for searching for, or copying, the records I have 
requested, please inform me before you fill the request.

As you know, the Act permits you to reduce or waive the fees when the 
release of the information is considered as "primarily benefiting the public."  
I believe that this requests fits that category and I therefore ask that you waive 
any fees.

If all or any part of this request is denied, please cite the specific exemption(s) 
which you think justifies your refusal to release the information and inform 
me of your agency's administrative appeal procedures available to me under the law.

I would appreciate your handling this request as quickly as possible, and I look 
forward to hearing from you within 20 working days, as the law stipulates.

With respect to our current FOIA lawsuit, I feel that we should settle this
unfortunate matter.

I see from your biography at  http://www.nsa.gov:8080/ and
http://www.nsa.gov:8080/dirnsa/dirnsa.html that you are

         1979   Distinguished Graduate
         Master of Arts degree in National Security Affairs 
         Naval Postgraduate School 
         Monterey, California

One of my former M.S. and Ph.D students in Computer Science,
Ted Lewis, is currently the chairman of Computer Science at
Naval Postgraduate School [http://www.friction-free-economy.com/].

Small world.

But I think that this emphasizes that WE SHOULD all be on the same side.
Not engaged in a conflict in US federal court.  Or on Internet.

NSA attempts to withhold requested information are possibly unwise.  

In our wired world the aggrieved know what happened to them. http://www.wpiran.org/,http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/impact/namir/namirm.html

And moderates in Iran, http://persia.org/khatami/biography.html, appear want
settlement too.

My family and I have been damaged by these crypto wars.

I ask you that consider fair settlement of damages caused by the National
Security Agency.

I cannot find your e-mail address on Internet.

Therefore I will forward the e-mail copy of this FOIA/settlement letter to 
Ray Kammer of NIST [http://www.nist.gov/], who along with the FBI 
[http://www.fbi.gov/, http://www.fbi.gov/fo/nyfo/nytwa.htmand], and NSA 
are trying to control the crypto business so that Kammer can possibly
forward an e-mail copy of the FOIA/Settlement letter to you.

Sincerely,

bill

William Payne
13015 Calle de Sandias
Albuquerque, NM 87111
505-292-7037 [I am not reading e-mail]





 





http://www.cylink.com/


http://www.jya.com/tis-p-bckrs.htm
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:53:33 -0500
From: nospam@synernet.com (Ed Stone)
Subject: Re: Another Network Associates U-Turn on Key Recovery
To: jy@jya.com

PGP Inc's new owner, Network Associates, has announced it is acquiring 
Trusted Informations Systems, Inc. On the TIS web site, the following 
project is detailed, in which Dr. Dorothy Denning was a subcontractor, 
and in which policy-based crypto key release systems were explored, in 
collaboration with the NSA, FBI, etc.:

Source: http://www.tis.com/research/crypto/crypt_krp_projsum.html

Policy-Based Cryptographic Key Release Systems
Cryptographic Key Release Language Design and Specification


View the quad chart graphic for the Policy-Based Cryptographic Key
Release System

Project Summary

ARPA Order Number: 8685 

Contractor: Trusted Information Systems, Inc. 3060 Washington Road
Glenwood, Maryland 21738 Phone: (301) 854-6889 FAX:
(301) 854-5363 

Subcontractors: Dr. Dorothy Denning
Dr. Burton Kaliski
Dr. Warwick Ford
Russel Housley

http://www.nsa.gov:8080/

http://www.nsa.gov:8080/dirnsa/dirnsa.html

1979   Distinguished Graduate
         Master of Arts degree in National Security Affairs 
         Naval Postgraduate School 
         Monterey, California

http://www.friction-free-economy.com/

http://www.nist.gov/

CPSR 
Computer Professionals 
for Social Responsibility
http://cpsr.org/dox/home.html
Clipper

Clipper Chip Information
http://cpsr.org/dox/clipper.html

MYK-78 CLIPPER CHIP ENCRYPTION/DECRYPTION
                                          ON A CHIP 

http://www.us.net/softwar/http://www.us.net/softwar/clip.html

     1 micron double level metal CMOS technology 
     0.35 watts power 
     28 pin plastic leaded chip carrier (PLCC) package 
     Transistor to transistor logic (TTL) interface 
     Chip ID, family key and device unique key are installed at programming. 
     Chip ID, family key and device unique key are installed at programming facility and are completely transparent to the
     user.
Dear General Minihan:

Sincerely,



William H. Payne                   
13015 Calle de Sandias NE          
Albuquerque, NM 87111              
Books

   1.Bamford, James. The Puzzle Palace: A Report on America's Most Secret Agency. 
   2.Hafner, Katie and John Markoff. Cyberpunk: Outlaws and Hackers on the Computer Frontier 
   3.Lapidus, Edith. Eavesdropping on Trial.. 
   4.Schneier, Bruce. Applied Cryptography 
   5.Sterling, Bruce. The Hacker Crackdown. 

     General Periodicals

   6.Slatalla, Michelle and Joshua Quittner. "Gangwars in Cyberspace. " Wired. 
   7.Baker, Stewart A. "Don't Worry, Be Happy." Wired. 
   8.Denning, Dorothy. "The Clipper Chip Will Block Crime." Newsday. 
   9.Dewitt, Philip Elmer. "Who Should Keep the Keys?" Time. 
  10.Lewis, Peter. "Now Congress gets to weigh in on Clinton's high-tech plan for wiretapping." New York Times. 
  11.Markoff, John. "Big Brother and the Computer Age." New York Times. 
  12.Markoff, John. "Flaw Discovered in Federal Plan for Wiretapping." New York Times. 
  13.Markoff, John. "Industry Defies U.S. on Data Encryption."New York Times. 

     Specialized Journals

  14.--. "Cylink Offers Triple-DES ICs for Civil Service Encryption." Electronic News. 
  15.Banisar, David and Ken Robinson. "Security and Privacy on the Information Highway." Educom Review. 
  16.Blackmon, Ric. "Data-Tapping Made Easy" Phrack. 
  17.Peterson, A. Padgett. "Clipper chip won't clip your wings, it will just protect the unprotected." Infoworld. 
  18.*Steal, Agent. "Tapping Telephone Lines Voice or Data for Phun, Money, and Passwords." Phrack. 
     * Pseudonym 

     Government Documents

  19.Administrative Office of the U.S. Courts. Wiretap Report. 
  20.Department of Justice. "Attorney General Makes Key Escrow Encryption Announcements." 
  21.House Subcommitte on Technology, Environment and Aviation. "Communications and Computer Surveillance, Privacy, and
     Security." 
  22.House Subcommitte on Telecommunications and Commerce. "Telecommunications Network Security." 
  23.Omnibus Crime Control and Safe Streets Act of 1968. 
  24.U.S. Bureau of the Census. "Statistical Abstract of the United States: 1993". 
  25.White House Press Secretary. "Clipper Press Release." 

     Institutional Sources

  26.Association for Computing Machinery, U.S. Public Policy Committee. "Computer Policy Committee Calls for Complete Withdrawl
     of Clipper." 
  27.Computer and Business Equipment Manufacturers Association. "CBEMA Recommendations on Encryption Policy." 
  28.Computer Professionals for Social Responsibility. "Clipper Fact Sheet." 
  29.Hanson, Robin. "Can Wiretaps Remain Cost-Effective?"Communications of the ACM 
  30.Hoffman, Lance, et al. "Cryptography Policy." Communications of the ACM. 
  31.Hoffman, Lance. "Clipping Clipper." Communications of the ACM. 
  32.Landau, Susan, et al. "Crypto Policy Perspecitves." Communications of the Association for Computing Machinery. 
  33.Privacy Rights Clearinghouse. "Wiretapping and Eavesdropping: Is There Cause for Concern?" 

     Interviews 

  34.Lo, Virginia. Personal interview. 
  35.Schuman, David. Personal interview. 
  36.McClandish, Stanton. E-mail interview. 

     Exclusive Internet Soucres

  37.Rivest, Ron. "Re: Newsday Editorial." 
  38.Meeks, Brock. "Jacking in from the 'Sooner or Later' Port." CyberWire Dispatch 
  39.Gore, Al. "Letter to Representative Cantwell" 

     Other

  40.Delaney, Donald, et al. "Wiretap Laws and Procedures: What Happens When the U.S. Government Taps a Line." 
Purposes of this http://www.ihrwg.org/CP/ai82.htm

During 1981 Amnesty' International received hundreds of allegations of torture of political prisoners, in particular in Evin Prison in Tehran.
Some were supported by photographs and medical reports. The methods of torture described in these reports included beating, kicking,
whipping with cables, banging heads against walls, burning with cigarettes, burning with an iron and mock executions. One report described
a special room at Evin Prison called autog-e autoo (ironing room) in which prisoners were tied to a bed and their backs, buttocks and the
soles of their feet were burned with an iron. In another place in Evin Prison called zire zamin-e haqiqat (basement of truth) it was alleged
that prisoners were burned with cigarettes during interrogation. 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: CTIA Daily News 
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 14:51:59 -0700 (PDT)
To: CTIA Daily News 
Subject: CTIA Daily News from WOW-COM - August 28, 1998
Message-ID: <199808281928.OAA09340@mailstrom.revnet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary..3995.1071713796.multipart/mixed"

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Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit




==========================================
Welcome to today's edition of the CTIA Daily News
from WOW-COM.  Please click on the icon / attachment
for the most important news in wireless communications today.

A new multi-billion dollar industry is here! 
Be at CTIA's WIRELESS I.T. '98
where personal computing and communications converge!

Don't Miss Your Chance -- October 12-14, 1998
Bally's Las Vegas, Las Vegas, NV

For more information, visit http://www.wirelessit.com 
===========================================
 




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VEVSPgoKPC9CT0RZPgo8L0hUTUw+Cg==
--Boundary..3995.1071713796.multipart/mixed--



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Thin_Is_In......@Prodigy.net
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 13:09:17 -0700 (PDT)
To: DoNotHitReply@DoNotHitReply.Com
Subject: ^*^* I lost 23 Pounds In 4 Weeks, So Could You!!! *^*^
Message-ID: <35E69D79.6F1A2C48@pat-med.k12.ny.us>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


EAT! EAT! EAT!
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Due to the overwhelming response, you may get a busy signal.  If you do call
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 10:35:40 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Man Sex
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Interstate 95 wrote:
> SEX(1)              EUNUCH Programmer's Manual             SEX(1)
> 
> NAME
>        sex -- have sex
> 
> SYNOPSIS
>        sex [options] ...  [username] ...
> 
> DESCRIPTION
>        sex allows the invoker to have sex with the user(s) speci-
>        fied in the command line.  If no users are specified, they
>        are  taken  from the LOVERS environment variable.  Options
>        to make things more interesting are as follows:
> 
>        -a     external stimulus (aphrodisiac) option
> 
etc,

Lets see ...

# sex -monica
processing ...
-m masochism ...
-o oral ...
-n necrophilia ...
-i coitus interruptus ...
-c chocolate sauce option
-a external stimulus (aphrodisiac) option

Close, but no cigar.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Wm. Michael Denney" 
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 19:28:24 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: retry re. Cafe Gulag
Message-ID: <35E766F2.1D6158E7@pacbell.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


This is a retry because I have only vague recollections
of last night.
  G

--------------

This msg is intended to reach Jim Choate
with a request that he contact Larry Joe Dowling
at 512-892-3393

signed by "Toto"
------------------------
passed along by gomez
due to phone call from SOG





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: allstar@allstarvacations.com
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 08:55:58 -0700 (PDT)
To: Travelers@fun.com
Subject: AD: FREE VACATCATIONS FOR LIFE
Message-ID: <1236528dfr>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


                                   "FREE VACATIONS FOR LIFE !"
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 Att: Tony Regal
                                                           
100% Money Back Guarantee, included with your vacation system..





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED NEWS DAILY 
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 02:53:51 -0700 (PDT)
To: (STUFFED SATURDAY AUGUST 29 1998)
Subject: Getting the most porn for your $$$/City throws doosr open to $2 nudists
Message-ID: <19980829071000.6489.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Yet another great buncg of photos today. Plus today's biggy
is so good you'll probably save it to disk, use it as wallpaper
or print it out!

+ SUPER SEXY STORY
+ MORE ADVICE ON BEDDING WOMEN FROM JOHNNY SHACK
+ ANOTHER EXCELLENT 'TRUE SEX SECRET', AS SENT
  IN BY A READER
+ SURPRISE SEXY THUMBNAILS
+ LOADS AND LOADS MORE!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/98/8/29/   <----

Welcome to  today's  issue of Stuffed. To read it you should
click on the URL above.  If it is not made clickable by your
email program  you will need to  use your mouse to highlight
the URL,  copy it and then paste it into your browser  (then
press Return).

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/98/8/29/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 18:11:18 -0700 (PDT)
To: ted lewis 
Subject: La lucha
Message-ID: <35E8A596.3ABA@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


http://zolatimes.com/
http://www.friction-free-economy.com/         
http://www.mgovg.com/ethics/index.html  

Dear Mr. P,

Yes, we would be interested in a review of "The Friction-Free
Economy".

I should warn you that we are somewhat skeptical of Bill Gate's
terms like "fiction-free", or those views that say the whole
world operates like a computer company.

I am responding at the email address in your letter.  Reply
at my regular email address below.

Thanks,

Zola
(ezola@lfcity.com)

Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 11:36:17 -0700
From: The Electronic Zola   Save Address  Block Sender
To: hey guys, I ONLY SEND THEM! For a good reason.

Once Morales and I get settlement we will read e-mail!  AND LIKELY
START A WEB SITE!

Subject: Re: still interested?

>Yes, we are still interested.  You sent us a review before, and
>I sent you some suggestions for making it a little more reader
>accessible, and never heard back from you.
>
>Cheers,
>
>Zola

Zola

I AM NO LONGER real interested.

I will write you an article

  Black and white test of cryptographic algorithms

bill
505 292 7037

I didn't receive

>I sent you some suggestions for making it a little more reader
>accessible, and never heard back from you.
>

We ALL, of course, live in the REAL WORLD.

Have a good weekend EVERYONE.

Allahu akbar, too.  

Let's make the GREAT SATAN PAY!

http://www.aci.net/kalliste/speccoll.htm   
http://caq.com/cryptogate  
http://jya.com/whpfiles.htm  
http://www.qainfo.se/~lb/crypto_ag.htm

And ALL hope for SETTLEMENT!

bill






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: RyanFord@aol.com
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 17:20:06 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: tell me
Message-ID: <9785fc31.35e89a8e@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


 hola and good tidings 
  send some info on spooks please 
  i will be grateful




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED NEWS DAILY 
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 02:15:15 -0700 (PDT)
To: (STUFFED SUNDAY AUGUST 30 1998)
Subject: HUBBY 'PAYS' WIFE FOR FOOD WITH SEX/TWO DOZEN SUPER HI-RES PHOTOS
Message-ID: <19980830071000.13358.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


That's right, we are increasing the numbers of free pics and today
there are over TWO DOZEN great photos to see in Stuffed. And most
in hi-res jpeg quality!

+ PAGE 2 'SPREAD' - YOU *HAVE* TO SEE THIS!
+ FROLICKING WITH FRUIT - YIKES, VEGGIES WILL NEVER BE THE SAME
+ LEANING TOWER OF PENIS - A STORY FROM A DIFFERENT MOLD
+ PHALLIC PRIEST - THE CHURCH OF SEX
+ THUMBNAIL HEAVEN - THAT'S WHERE YOU'LL BE!
+ SEXY STORY: 'AT THE MOVIES' - HOT AND VERY SEXY
+ WOMEN ARE EASY: 19 - PENULTIMATE PART, READ IT!
+ SIBERIAN SLUTS - JUST WHAT IS GOING ON HERE?
+ BEST OF EUREKA!: THE HOTTEST WEB SITES FROM EUREKA!
+ SEXY SURPRISE THUMBS - A SURPRISE EVERY CLICK
+ PICTURE PERFECT PUSSY - WHAT DOES A GIRL'S PUSSY REVEAL?
+ ULTRA HI-RES POSTER - SAVE IT, PRINT IT, KEEP IT!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/98/8/30/   <----

Welcome to  today's  issue of Stuffed. To read it you should
click on the URL above.  If it is not made clickable by your
email program  you will need to  use your mouse to highlight
the URL,  copy it and then paste it into your browser  (then
press Return).

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/98/8/30/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "sboyd" 
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 06:06:57 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: News for class
Message-ID: <19980830125833354.AAA195@pccorner>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Please inform me how I can get the news each day by e-mail at
flashboyd@aol.com.  This information will be used in my comm class.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: geeman@best.com
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 12:55:15 -0700 (PDT)
To: <@cypherpunks@toad.com>
Subject: Re: News for class
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19691231160000.034ab6b8@shell15.ba.best.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


For "the news" just sign up for abcnews.com or msnbc.
For truth and information you'll have to go search.

At 08:58 AM 8/30/98 -0400, sboyd wrote:
>
>Please inform me how I can get the news each day by e-mail at
>flashboyd@aol.com.  This information will be used in my comm class.
>
>
>




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: interception 
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 06:20:16 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980830132037.0067f838@mail.ii-mel.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


http://jya.com/cell-track.htm
http://jya.com/gsm-scandal.htm
http://jya.com/gsm-snoop.htm





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Marc Maffei" 
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 15:55:11 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: Re: News for class
Message-ID: <013a01bdd466$8a8708a0$943593d0@marcmaff>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


no.... I don't think that is what is being asked here, read the message
again and you will see that he is asking for getting news not being news
(even though I would love it if aolers would become news in the worst way),
so I suggest that instead he should do this:
1.) go to his mailbox or PO box
2.) open up his computer
3.) carefully insert mail in any possible cavity (in computer stones for
brain)
4.) and now proceed with prior suggestion or
5.) ensure computer is plugged in (wall socket, you know... socket connected
to power grid, grid connected to generator... etc)
6.) pour water or other suitably conductive liquid on whole mess
7.) repeat all steps as often as necessary for enlightenment to be achieved
 This might not get the poster closer to knowledge as far as news is
concerned but it should definitely provide us with a chuckle or two.
-----Original Message-----
From: HyperReal-Anon 
To: cypherpunks@toad.com 
Date: Sunday, August 30, 1998 3:42 PM
Subject: Re: News for class


>On Sun, 30 Aug 1998, sboyd wrote:
>
>>
>> Please inform me how I can get the news each day by e-mail at
>> flashboyd@aol.com.  This information will be used in my comm class.
>>
>>
>
>It's really easy, but requires some work with hardware. First, you open
>your computer. Then you get a large sledgehammer and bash the inside of
>the computer thrice. WARNING: If you do it less than three times this may
>not work! Then, you get five liters of rubbing alcohol and pour it into
>the machine, wait about a minute, then stick your head about an inch from
>it and drop a match.
>
>Congratulations! You're in the news!
>
>





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 18:28:50 -0700 (PDT)
To: abumujahid@taliban.com
Subject: Moving ahead
Message-ID: <35E9FB20.177B@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Sunday 8/30/98 6:58 PM

NYA and John Young

I bought three books for you guys at B Dalton at the Cottonwood
mall in Rio Rancho last night.

One is titled

	LOS ALAMOS
	and the development of the 
	ATOMIC BOMB

	by Robert W. Seidel

The book covers von Nuemann, Feynman, Ulam, and Metropolis.

These guys pioneered use of Monte Carlo techniques in nuclear bomb
design.

My former MS and  Ph.D. student Ted Lewis 

http://www.friction-free-economy.com    

told me some years ago that the GFSR 

http://www-hto.usc.edu/software/seqaln/doc/html/gfsr.3.html          

is used the nuclear bomb simulations.

We were into Monte Carlo work in the '70s

http://www.mhpcc.edu/general/john.html       

But in the '80s I WAS FORCED into the business of electronic locks, data
authentication
and fuzing weapons.

http://www.apcatalog.com/cgi-bin/AP?ISBN=0125475705&LOCATION=US&FORM=FORM2 
http://jya.com/f86/whpf86.htm

And KNEW ABOUT

http://www.aci.net/kalliste/speccoll.htm   
http://caq.com/cryptogate  
http://jya.com/whpfiles.htm  
http://www.qainfo.se/~lb/crypto_ag.htm

Let's ALL hope for settlement.  So that we CAN ALL move on to better
projects.

Later
bill






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: HyperReal-Anon 
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 14:22:24 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: News for class
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Sun, 30 Aug 1998, sboyd wrote:

> 
> Please inform me how I can get the news each day by e-mail at
> flashboyd@aol.com.  This information will be used in my comm class.
> 
> 

It's really easy, but requires some work with hardware. First, you open
your computer. Then you get a large sledgehammer and bash the inside of
the computer thrice. WARNING: If you do it less than three times this may
not work! Then, you get five liters of rubbing alcohol and pour it into
the machine, wait about a minute, then stick your head about an inch from
it and drop a match.

Congratulations! You're in the news!





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: dorthy@coolmail.to
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 22:34:42 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Be Happy Tonight....
Message-ID: <199808310534.WAA13823@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hey cypherpunks:
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Or Manually Send To sperta@coolmail.to
And Your Email Will Be Entered In The Global Remove Filter.
****************************************************************








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: pop.prodigy.net@pimout3-int.prodigy.net
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 21:35:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Low Cost Health Insurance
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Dear ,

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If you wish not to receive email from us, please reply to sender and we will remove your name from 
the list.

Thank you.









From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ftwi@magnumhosting.com
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 02:28:00 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: 1,500,000 FRESH Email Addresses - JUST $25 !!!
Message-ID: <199808310927.CAA15146@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: DDoss5@aol.com
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 00:04:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: hi
Message-ID: <3b1ad23f.35ea48bb@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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/ / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / 
This message complies with the proposed United States Federal requirements
for commercial email plus Washington State Commercial Email Bill. for
information see: http://www.senate.gov/~murkowski/commercialemail/
EMailAmendText.html  and for Washington State Commercial Email Bill:
http://ww.wa.gov/wwweb/AGO/ sender information: Goldtec Publications, Sherman
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED NEWS DAILY 
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 01:39:48 -0700 (PDT)
To: (STUFFED MONDAY AUGUST 31 1998)
Subject: 30 FREE HI-RES JPEGS TODAY/Wet dreams at work are dismissable offence
Message-ID: <19980831071001.7876.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Yet another picture bonanza day,  with 30 superb jpeg photos
squeezed into  today's issue  of Stuffed.  We're pulling out
all the stops  now we see  more and more  of you  spending a
longer time reading the paper. Rest assured, if you want it,
it's legal and we can get it,  we'll feature  it in Stuffed!

+ PAGE 2 'SPREAD' - YEOUCH IS SHE HOT!
+ WRONG WAY WILLY: DR'S BLUNDERS IN THE WORST PLACE IMAGINABLE
+ HEALTH FOOD WHOREHOUSE: 'JUST OFF TO DO THE SHOPPING DEAR...'
+ THUMBNAIL HEAVEN: THAT'S WHERE WE WERE WHEN WE COMPILED IT
+ TODAY'S SEXY STORY: 'A SECRET AFFAIR'
+ WOMEN ARE EASY: FINALE OF A FABULOUS SERIES
+ CLIT IN THE CLOSET
+ YOUR TRUE SEX SECRETS: TODAY A SALESMAN WRITES
+ MORE OF THE BEST WEB SITES EVER REVIEWED IN EUREKA!
+ SEXY SURPRISE THUMBS: A SURPRISE WITH EACH CLICK
+ DATING THE OLD FASHIONED WAY
+ SUPER HI-RES POSTER PIC: SAVE OR PRINT IT!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/98/8/31/   <----

Welcome to  today's  issue of Stuffed. To read it you should
click on the URL above.  If it is not made clickable by your
email program  you will need to  use your mouse to highlight
the URL,  copy it and then paste it into your browser  (then
press Return).

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/98/8/31/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Clark, Beau (CLBM)" 
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 10:55:57 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <3B286631A9CFD1118D0700805F6F9F5A2C16E5@hou281-msx1.chevron.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Remove




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 11:12:22 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: hola and good tidings
In-Reply-To: <199808311641.SAA29684@replay.com>
Message-ID: <35EAE807.71D5@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


>  hola and good tidings
>   send some info on spooks please
>   i will be grateful
> 

I would suggest budgeting about $10k for some GOOD night vision
equipment, then find a good thick hedge and set up a suburban watch
post. Focus on evenings. You will find some activity on Oct 30 though
activity will peak on Oct 31. However, I would steer clear of the
targets because if you approach them, even if only for the purposes of
inquiry, their parents may loose the rottweilers or shoot you between
the eyes and no Second Chance vest will help you in either case.

BTW what areas will you be surveilling?

Egads,
M




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Richard" 
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 11:33:12 -0700 (PDT)
To: rsholl@hotmail.com
Subject: ATTN: ADULT WEBMASTERS ONLY!
Message-ID: <199808311833.OAA00436@gti.gti.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: CTIA Daily News 
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 10:46:16 -0700 (PDT)
To: CTIA Daily News 
Subject: CTIA Daily News from WOW-COM - August 31, 1998
Message-ID: <199808311737.MAA29806@mailstrom.revnet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary..3995.1071713796.multipart/mixed"

--Boundary..3995.1071713796.multipart/mixed
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit




==========================================
Welcome to today's edition of the CTIA Daily News
from WOW-COM.  Please click on the icon / attachment
for the most important news in wireless communications today.

A new multi-billion dollar industry is here! 
Be at CTIA's WIRELESS I.T. '98
where personal computing and communications converge!

Don't Miss Your Chance -- October 12-14, 1998
Bally's Las Vegas, Las Vegas, NV

For more information, visit http://www.wirelessit.com 
===========================================
 




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: jkthomson 
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 14:41:53 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re:
In-Reply-To: <67d557e1.35eb0495@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980831144238.006f80d0@dowco.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 04:16 PM 8/31/98 EDT, ILovToHack@aol.com wrote:
>Ibelive by spooks he ment goverment agents not a racial slur so lay off.

trust me, it's ok, he was using '32-bit AOL' to post his message, so
EVERYONE but you realized that he was talking about garbage anyway.  maybe
AOL64 will have a clue(tm) built in.


an appeal to listmembers:

listmembers, can't we make this list 'request for access'?  iLoV2HaCk and
his AOL ilk are getting a little too 'elite' and 'k-rad' for me. pipebombs,
posters, spooks, music, what the hell is happening to this list?  I know
that I mainly lurk, but don't you think that having to request to join this
list may filter out the worst of the AOL (et al) newbies?  they obviously
cannot get a clue(tm) and continue to cause a landslide of off-topic
(albeit funny) posts that ridicule them, and keep this list awash in
non-cypherpunkish dialogue.  

oh, and I am also sorry for perpetuating this thread.


  

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
 james 'keith' thomson   www.bigfoot.com/~ceildh
 jkthomson:C181 991A 405C EAFB 2C46 79B5 B1DC DB78 8196 122D [06.07.98]
 ceildh   :1D79 59AF ED75 5945 6003 8240 DA34 ACCA 9DE4 6BC9 [05.14.98]
 ICQ:746241  at pgp.mit.edu     ...and former sysop of tnbnog BBS
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
The people to worry about are not those who openly disagree with you,
but those who disagree with you who are too cowardly to let you know.
=======================================================================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ILovToHack@aol.com
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 13:17:58 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re:
Message-ID: <67d557e1.35eb0495@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Ibelive by spooks he ment goverment agents not a racial slur so lay off.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "R. Paul McCarty" 
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 13:43:29 -0700 (PDT)
To: Anonymous 
Subject: Re: your mail
In-Reply-To: <199808311641.SAA29684@replay.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I think you're a little wet behind the ears dear.  In the context of this
group, "spook" has nothing to do with derogatory racial slurs.  Pick up a
hackers dictionary and get with it.

Cheers.

-Paul

R. Paul McCarty / DARS Coordinator / rpmc@troi.cc.rochester.edu / x52059
317 Lattimore Hall, University of Rochester, Rochester, NY 14627
Computers don't make errors; what they do, they do on purpose.-Dale/KOTH



On Mon, 31 Aug 1998, Anonymous wrote:

> We don't take kindly to racial slurs here.  You'll probably be receiving
> hundreds of email bombs over the next few days from angry
> cypherpunks.  You may want to change email accounts.
> 
> God bless!
> 
> 
> At 08:19 PM 8/29/98 -0400, RyanFord@aol.com wrote:
> > hola and good tidings 
> >  send some info on spooks please 
> >  i will be grateful
> > 
> 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: FTPPork@aol.com
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 15:23:36 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: DES Ecryption
Message-ID: <5bdef0da.35eb223f@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hey, could anyone tell me what process DES Encryption goes through, or point
me to a site with the information?

Thanx
-Buzz-
P.S. Please no flames because I am on AOL...




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: fed@icc.ru
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 17:32:01 -0700 (PDT)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: If you'd like......
Message-ID: <199809010025.IAA03245@mail.rat.com.tw>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


To Make Unlimited Income.  If that's what you want.  Learn How:

No meetings, No Phone Calls, No Conf. Calls, No Selling, No Monthly 
Quotas or chasing around friends and relatives.
Simply advertise our company's 800# under your personal code number.   
For Proof, call 24 Hrs./Day....Recorded Messages...1-888-446-6951,
1-888-703-5389, 1-888-731-3457 or 1-888-715-0642.
Want paperwork in your hands FOD: 415-273-6020 (7 pg.)

To get started right away, Call 1-800-811-2141 code 58420
(from 8am to 10pm..CST..Mon-Sat.) 
Ask about a free Vacation when you call.
Work smarter, not harder.



This message complies with the United States Federal requirements for
commercial email as well as the Washington State Commercial Email Bill. 
For additional information see:
http://www.senate.gov/~murkowski/commercialemail/EMailAmendText.html 
Washington State Commercial Email Bill:
http://ww.wa.gov/wwweb/AGO/junkemail/






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 09:41:48 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199808311641.SAA29684@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


We don't take kindly to racial slurs here.  You'll probably be receiving
hundreds of email bombs over the next few days from angry
cypherpunks.  You may want to change email accounts.

God bless!


At 08:19 PM 8/29/98 -0400, RyanFord@aol.com wrote:
> hola and good tidings 
>  send some info on spooks please 
>  i will be grateful
> 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 18:09:38 -0700 (PDT)
To: j orlin grabbe 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Monday 8/31/98 6:31 PM

J Orlin Grabbe 
http://www.aci.net/kalliste
http://www.aci.net/kalliste/apocalyp.htm

Patty 

    Implementing Basics : How Basics Work 
    William H. and Patricia Payne / Published 1982
    http://www.amazon.com

and I just watched in Lehrer news hour.

One question repeatedly came up which you might care to write about.

Is capitalism a proper economic model for Russia and China?

Or merely a DELIBERATE attempt to screw-up both counties' economies	
by US 'intelligence' agencies?  And other countries' economies as well?

http://www.stratfor.com/services/gintel/redalert/

Your observations and ECONOMIC opinions might be valuable to all of us.

Later 

http://www.apcatalog.com/cgi-bin/AP?ISBN=0125475705&LOCATION=US&FORM=FORM2
http://jya.com/f86/whpf86.htm

http://www.aci.net/kalliste/speccoll.htm   
http://caq.com/cryptogate  
http://jya.com/whpfiles.htm  
http://www.qainfo.se/~lb/crypto_ag.htmBest   


bill






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: jkthomson 
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 20:18:31 -0700 (PDT)
To: ILovToHack@aol.com
Subject: Re:
In-Reply-To: <3a06d336.35eb1f5d@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980831201915.006fc410@dowco.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1



ok, sorry to have to drag the list into this AGAIN, but this AOL'er 
is much too funny for his own good.  Imagine, he is entertaining me 
(perhaps the list?) for free!


>At 04:16 PM 8/31/98 EDT, ILovToHack@aol.com wrote:
>>Ibelive by spooks he ment goverment agents not a racial slur so lay 
off.

>trust me, it's ok, he was using '32-bit AOL' to post his message, so 
EVERYONE >but you realized that he was talking about garbage anyway.  
maybe AOL64 will >have a clue(tm) built in.


>an appeal to listmembers:

>listmembers, can't we make this list 'request for access'?  
iLoV2HaCk and his >AOL ilk are getting a little too 'elite' and 'k-
rad' for me. pipebombs, >posters, spooks, music, what the hell is 
happening to this list?  I know that >I mainly lurk, but don't you 
think that having to request to join this list >may filter out the 
worst of the AOL (et al) newbies?  they obviously cannot >get a 
clue(tm) and continue to cause a landslide of off-topic (albeit 
funny) >posts that ridicule them, and keep this list awash in non-
cypherpunkish >dialogue.  

>oh, and I am also sorry for perpetuating this thread.


...and I got some AOL mail back from him!  wooho!


At 06:10 PM 8/31/98 EDT, you wrote:
>You post a message like that again and you will be sued for libel my 
screen
>name is just a nic and by the way if you think i am jokeing about 
the law suit
>try me
>
>
>
>

dude...  please.  take your best shot.  I'm bored of you already and 
I want to see if you are actually as clueless as you appear to be.  
do it.  c'mon! I'll even SIGN this message, Mike!

oh yes, and apologies go out to the list, _again_.  




-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0
Charset: noconv

iQA/AwUBNetnsrHc23iBlhItEQKiuwCbBS2gFXzDt4ZcpGsGsPimICJGeh4AnRyY
KWL0x6FZaT+mOxFhC3Jr1Zgu
=URJ7
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


-----------------------------------------------------------------------
 james 'keith' thomson   www.bigfoot.com/~ceildh
 jkthomson:C181 991A 405C EAFB 2C46 79B5 B1DC DB78 8196 122D [06.07.98]
 ceildh   :1D79 59AF ED75 5945 6003 8240 DA34 ACCA 9DE4 6BC9 [05.14.98]
 ICQ:746241  at pgp.mit.edu     ...and former sysop of tnbnog BBS
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
The people to worry about are not those who openly disagree with you,
but those who disagree with you who are too cowardly to let you know.
=======================================================================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: freemem@yahoo.com
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 20:30:43 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Free Membership!!!!!!!!
Message-ID: <199809010330.UAA28504@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hey cypherpunks....
You gotta check this out, I was really bored so i was surfing the net
and i stumbled upon this porn site, and let me tell you this is the best shit.
Its got everything !!!! And *FREE MEMBERSHIP*
Check it out   http://209.167.161.17
It even has a WHORE GUIDE for the entire country,
but that was only one of the cool things that it has.
its got;
LIVE VIDEO PORN
FUCK FLICKS
NUDE CELEBRITIES- this one is great
PHOTO GALLERY
You even get to see the pamelah lee vidoe**FREE**
Trust me  http://209.167.161.17

P.S.   Ill be over a little later with some Brewskies
see ya

************************************************************************
If You Would Like To Be Removed From Our Future Mailings,
Please Reply With The Subject Remove,
Or Manually Send To freemem@coolmail.to
And Your Email Will Be Entered In The Global Remove Filter.
************************************************************************







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Destroy micro$oft" 
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 20:51:51 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: BEWARE of SnakeOil (tm)
Message-ID: <19980901035117.17954.qmail@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Mon, Aug 31, 1998 at 10:43:23PM -0400, Jean-Francois Avon wrote:
|
| - beware of any product that has not been *extensively* peer-reviewed, 
with *all* the
| source code made public.  Security breaches are *very* easy to 
overlook and no software
| should *ever* be used unless it was peer-reviewed.


The source code for his Linux implementation is available at
http://www.filesafety.com/CRYPT.EXE - which is actually a tar+gzipped
file.

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Jean-Francois Avon" 
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 19:16:38 -0700 (PDT)
To: "Cypherpunks" 
Subject: Please help!  Snakeoil offers on the Canadian Firearms Digest mailing list...
Message-ID: <199809010219.WAA26139@cti06.citenet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Please Reply To: cdn-firearms-digest@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca

As of today, I'm off the list.  It must be the Fickle Finger of Fate
that made that post appear on the CFD today!


It looks like snake oil, it taste like snakeoil, is smell like snakeoil;
Is *it* snakeoil?

======= forwarded by JFA, from Canadian Firearms Digest ==========

Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 15:30:34 -0600
From: Lee Scroggins 
Subject: New/easy to use strong file encryption fyi

For anyone interested in easy to use strong file encryption, or just
afraid that your gun related data/Emails may be too tempting for the
officials, the following article points to an interesting site
(http://www.filesafety.com).

Please note that the US govt seems to be having a hissy fit about it
(you might want to look while it still exists).


>
> - - The Strange Case of Charles Booher - -
>
> The California man whose software drew the interest of the Commerce
Department
> now has been hit with a subpoena. Charles Booher must appear before a U.S.
> District Court grand jury in San Jose to explain what he is doing with his
> encryption software, SecureOffice.
>
> Individuals can be charged with violating federal restrictions on the
export
> of encryption software, but the government also appears to be worried that
> Booher has simply made it to easy to use extremely secure
encryption--with or
> without export. Booher's software scrambles data with long 168-bit keys.
>
> The subpoena Booher received also ordered him to bring to the courthouse
the
> source code for his product, suggesting the government wants to reverse
> engineer it.
> Booher intends to patent his source code and says he does not plan to
hand it
> over to anyone.
>
>
http://foxnews.com/js_index.sml?content=/scitech/wires2/0827/t_rt_0827_27.sm
l
> View the Commerce Dept.'s subpoena at http://www.filesafety.com




========= end of forwarded text==========


Jean-Francois Avon, B.Sc. Physics, Montreal, Canada
  DePompadour, Société d'Importation Ltée
     Limoges fine porcelain and french crystal
  JFA Technologies, R&D physicists & engineers
     Instrumentation & control, LabView programming
PGP keys: http://bs.mit.edu:8001/pks-toplev.html
PGP ID:C58ADD0D:529645E8205A8A5E F87CC86FAEFEF891
PGP ID:5B51964D:152ACCBCD4A481B0 254011193237822C






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Steve Bryan 
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 20:36:06 -0700 (PDT)
To: FTPPork@aol.com
Subject: Re: DES Ecryption
In-Reply-To: <5bdef0da.35eb223f@aol.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


>Hey, could anyone tell me what process DES Encryption goes through, or point
>me to a site with the information?
>
>Thanx
>-Buzz-
>P.S. Please no flames because I am on AOL...

This may not be the absolute best place to start but it is certainly current:



This describes the efforts made to show why a 56 bit key for DES is just
too short for many purposes. You can probably branch out from links you
find there to get more details about S-boxes and other topics.

Steve Bryan
email: sbryan@vendorsystems.com
icq: 5263678
pgp: D758 183C 8B79 B28E 6D4C  2653 E476 82E6 DA7C 9AC5






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Jean-Francois Avon" 
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 19:43:27 -0700 (PDT)
To: "cdn-firearms-digest@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca>
Subject: BEWARE of SnakeOil (tm)
Message-ID: <199809010246.WAA26608@cti06.citenet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


SNAKEOIL ALERT:
Cc: Cypherpunks@toad.com

On Mon, 31 Aug 1998 18:37:35 -0600, Cdn-Firearms Digest wrote:

>Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 15:30:34 -0600
>From: Lee Scroggins 
>Subject: New/easy to use strong file encryption fyi
>
>For anyone interested in easy to use strong file encryption, or just
>afraid that your gun related data/Emails may be too tempting for the
>officials, the following article points to an interesting site
>(http://www.filesafety.com).

Maybe his product is valid, but, after having read the the Cypherpunks mailing list for 
years, here are my conclusions:
 
- beware of any product that has not been *extensively* peer-reviewed, with *all* the 
source code made public.  Security breaches are *very* easy to overlook and no software 
should *ever* be used unless it was peer-reviewed.

- the fact that a software uses a specific encryption technique that is described in 
well known books and that this technique is usually recognized as secure by the 
cryptanalysis community doesn't mean that the *specific* software implementation of it 
is truly secure.  Thus, the need not only to peer-review the specific encryption 
technique but *also* and *especially* the precise coding implementation. 

[from their web page] "CryptView will allow you to validate algorithms and examine the 
internals of SecureOffice files. You can see the inside of the cryptography box. 
CryptView allows you to examine file formats and come to your own conclusions about the 
Security of SecureOffice. "

- the fact an encrypted output doesn't look comprehensible to *you* or to a software 
engineer doesn't mean that a cryptanalyst cannot crack it within minutes...  It is a 
*very* complicated science indeed.  If you are not a PhD in cryptanalysis with years of 
experience in software security, you can't know.  One of the NSA top cryptanalyst once 
said that before you spent at least fifteen years of your life cracking codes, you have 
no idea of how to devise a truly secure one.

> Please note that the US govt seems to be having a hissy fit about it
> (you might want to look while it still exists).

They try pursue anybody who violates ITAR in a public way.  If I were to walk with a 
PGP diskette across the border outside Cana-USA, I would be liable under ITAR even if I 
never wrote a line of software in my life.

> Individuals can be charged with violating federal restrictions on the
> export of encryption software, but the government also appears to be 
> worried that Booher has simply made it to easy to use extremely secure
> encryption--with or without export.

Yes, in USA, and it applies to Canada too, encryption software is considered the same 
as missiles for export purposes (category: ammunition).  It is regulated by ITAR, just 
like guns.  But this text borders on being glib.

PGP caused a lot of trouble to his author too, but PGP has been *very extensively* peer 
reviewed.  At least, AFAIK, V2.6.2.  The newer version of PGP uses *several* encryption 
techniques, among which you have to choose.

> The subpoena Booher received also ordered him to bring to the courthouse the
> source code for his product, suggesting the government wants to reverse
> engineer it.

Absolute BS!  The security is afforded by the specific cryptography mathematics that 
are themselves *extensively* well known, peer reviewed and, in the case of 3DES (DES), 
*invented* in government labs!  The other technique, RSA, is used in PGP and the patent 
will expire in a few years.

> Booher intends to patent his source code and says he does not plan to
> hand it  over to anyone.

Un-peer-reviewed code has an excedingly high probability of being snakeoil, especially 
if it is marketed before being reviewed...

A false feeling of security is much more dangerous than no security at all.

All the govts have vested interest in disseminating pseudo-strong cryptography.  This 
statement is not paranoia, it is recent and regularly recurring history.

I find the information in the web page way too incomplete and, to the limit, 
misleading. Personnally, I prefer to stick to PGP.  Version 5.x is *easy* to use.

I do get tired of seeing posts like that around...
One of theses days, I will write a FAQ on encryption for the layman...
If ever I find that this software is appropriate, I will say so on the CFD.
I do not own any interests, direct or indirect, in PGP.

Ciao

jfa

Security is not afforded by a few tools, it is a state of mind.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: clarissa0p@hk.super.net
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 17:32:13 -0700 (PDT)
To: michele0tl@yahoo.com
Subject: Do you market on the Net?
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Dear Internet Marketer,

Are you tired of endlessly posting your ad to online classified sites that
just don't get the job done? The fact is there are over 300 such sites
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We then ran a super "sort/de-dupe" program against this huge list. 
It cut the file down to less than 25 million!!! Can you believe that? It
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many duplicate addresses. They also had many program
 "generated" email addresses like Compuserve, MCI, ANON's, etc. 
This causes a tremendous amount of undeliverables, and for  those 
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We then ran a program that contained 150+ keywords to remove 
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 webmaster, flamer, abuse, spam, etc., etc.   Also eliminated all .edu,
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 "You can buy from the REST or you can buy from the BEST.   Your choice.
_____________________________

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****************************************

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_________________
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All orders are sent by US Priority Mail and we pay the shipping costs!

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*Mail (USPS)
   *Include a check or money order for the correct amount.
   *Make the check payable to:  Syrynx, Inc.
   *Include your phone number and/or email address in case we need to
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       Syrynx, Inc.
       500 Lake Avenue
       Suite 154 
       Lake Worth, Florida  33460

*C.O.D.
   *Fill out the order form completely and write/type COD on the form.
   *Mail the form to the above address or fax to 305-418-7590 *Please have
   a certified/cashiers check or money order in the amount
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    The additonal $16.00 covers overnight shipping and C.O.D. fees.

*Fax
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   *ALL FUNDS ARE TO BE IN USA CURRENCY.
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   *Print out and complete the following form.
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    somewhere on the body of the check.
   *This gives us the necessary account information to process your order.
   *Please note that Syrynx, Inc. charges a $40.00 fee for ALL BAD CHECKS.
   



Thank you for your order.

Syrynx, Inc.


          **********  MILLIONS VOL.1 ORDER FORM **********

*You must complete the entire form or your order can not be processed.
*You will need to tape the blank check in the space indicated below. *Fill
out and sign the authorization section below.

*Fax the ENTIRE FORM to (305) 418-7590.


*Please, print the following information.


First Name: _______________________________________________________

Last Name: _______________________________________________________

Street Address: ___________________________________________________

_________________________________________________________________

City: ____________________________________________________________

State: _____________________            Zip: _________________________

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EMail Address: ___________________________________________________



           * * * * * * * * * *  Authorization  * * * * * * * * * *
                        (leave blank for C.O.D. orders) 

I, ________________________________________________, hereby authorize
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Date: __________________ 

order code:mvi

*Attach voided, blank check below. (do not attach check for C.O.D. orders)















From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: aa1310@hotmail.com
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 22:47:20 -0700 (PDT)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: w63
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain








BENCHMARK PRINT SUPPLY
1091 REDSTONE LANE
ATLANTA GA 30338

CALL---->       770-399-0953   FOR TONER SUPPLIES ORDERS/PRICING ONLY  

CALL---->       770-399-5505   CUSTOMER SERVICE/SUPPORT ISSUES 
                 
CALL---->       770-399-5614    E-MAIL REMOVAL COMPLAINTS LINE

                                    
OUR  LASER PRINTER/FAX/COPIER TONER CARTRIDGE PRICES
NOW AS LOW AS $39 & UP. SPECIALS WEEKLY ON ALL LASER PRINTER
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HEWLETT PACKARD SERIES 2/3/4/2P/4P/5P/4L/5L/3SI/4SI/5SI
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CANON FAX ALL MODELS  
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PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE  MAKE NOTE OF THE FOLLOWING BEFORE YOU CALL:

-----> WE DO NOT HAVE CATALOGS OR PRICE LISTS BECAUSE OUR PRICES CHANGE WEEKLY!!
-----> WE DO NOT FAX QUOTES OR PRICES BECAUSE OUR ORDER LINE IS NOT SET UP  TO DO THAT
-----> WE DO NOT SELL  TO  RESELLERS OR BUY FROM DISTRIBUTERS
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SIMPLY ORDER YOUR NEW CARTRIDGE, WHEN IT ARRIVES MAIL BACK                        
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WE ACCEPT ALL MAJOR CREDIT CARDS OR COD ORDERS
CORPORATE ACCOUNTS AVAILABLE WITH APPROVED CREDIT
ALL PACKAGES SHIPPED UPS GROUND UNLESS SPECIFIED OTHERWISE


 










From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: aa1310@hotmail.com
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 03:06:16 -0700 (PDT)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: w68
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain








BENCHMARK PRINT SUPPLY
1091 REDSTONE LANE
ATLANTA GA 30338

CALL---->       770-399-0953   FOR TONER SUPPLIES ORDERS/PRICING ONLY  

CALL---->       770-399-5505   CUSTOMER SERVICE/SUPPORT ISSUES 
                 
CALL---->       770-399-5614    E-MAIL REMOVAL COMPLAINTS LINE

                                    
OUR  LASER PRINTER/FAX/COPIER TONER CARTRIDGE PRICES
NOW AS LOW AS $39 & UP. SPECIALS WEEKLY ON ALL LASER PRINTER
SUPPLIES. WE CARRY MOST ALL LASER PRINTER CARTRIDGES, FAX SUPPLIES
AND COPIER TONERS AT WAREHOUSE PRICES INCLUDING:

HEWLETT PACKARD SERIES 2/3/4/2P/4P/5P/4L/5L/3SI/4SI/5SI
IBM/LEXMARK OPTRA SERIES 4019/4029/4039/4049/4059
EPSON SERIES 2/1100/1500/6000/7000/8000
NEC SERIES 90/95
CANON COPIER PC SERIES INCLUDING 3/6RE/7/11/320/720/10/20/25 ETC...
HP FAX SERIES 700/720/5000/7000/FX1/FX2/FX3/FX4/FX5
CANON FAX ALL MODELS  
PRICES CHANGE WEEKLY PLEASE CALL TO GET THE MOST
RECENT PRICING/AVAILABILTY AND SPECIALS OF THE WEEK!!!!

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE  MAKE NOTE OF THE FOLLOWING BEFORE YOU CALL:

-----> WE DO NOT HAVE CATALOGS OR PRICE LISTS BECAUSE OUR PRICES CHANGE WEEKLY!!
-----> WE DO NOT FAX QUOTES OR PRICES BECAUSE OUR ORDER LINE IS NOT SET UP  TO DO THAT
-----> WE DO NOT SELL  TO  RESELLERS OR BUY FROM DISTRIBUTERS
-----> WE DO NOT CARRY : BROTHER -MINOLTA-KYOSERA- PANASONIC - XEROX - FUJITSU - OKIDATA - SHARP!!
-----> WE DO NOT CARRY ANY COLOR PRINTER SUPPLIES!!!!!    
-----> WE DO NOT CARRY DESKJET/INKJET OR BUBBLEJET SUPPLIES!!!!                    

NEW,NEW,NEW $10 MAIL IN REBATE ON SELECTED  CARTRIDGES
SIMPLY ORDER YOUR NEW CARTRIDGE, WHEN IT ARRIVES MAIL BACK                        
YOUR REBATE CERTIFICATE WITH ANY USED CARTRIDGE FOR INSTANT CREDIT

WE ACCEPT ALL MAJOR CREDIT CARDS OR COD ORDERS
CORPORATE ACCOUNTS AVAILABLE WITH APPROVED CREDIT
ALL PACKAGES SHIPPED UPS GROUND UNLESS SPECIFIED OTHERWISE


 










From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Gilmore 
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 16:29:03 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks-announce
Subject: ANNOUNCE: SF Bay Area Cypherpunks, Sat Aug 8, Santa Clara & Palo Alto
Message-ID: <199808052329.QAA01100@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


The August meeting of the San Francisco Bay Area Cypherpunks will be
on Saturday, August 8 1998 from 12-6PM.  This is an open meeting, as
always, and the public is invited to attend.

The meeting will be held in two sequential locations this month.
We'll start with a tour of the recently announced Electronic Frontier
Foundation "DES Cracker", hosted by the company which built its
hardware.  Please join us between noon and 2PM at:

	Advanced Wireless Technologies
	3375 Scott Blvd #410 
	Santa Clara, CA  95054
	+1 408 727 5780

	http://www.mapblast.com/mapblast/blast.hm?CMD=MAP&GC=X%3A-121.98298%7CY%3A37.3812%7CLT%3A37.38063%7CLN%3A-121.98458%7CLS%3A20000%7Cc%3ASanta_Clara%7Cs%3ACA%7Cz%3A95054%7Cd%3A807%7Cp%3AUSA&LV=3&IC=37.3812%3A-121.98298&IC=100&IC%3A=AWT&IC=%3A%3A%3A%3A%3A%3A3A&GAD2=3375+Scott+Blvd+%23410&GAD3=Santa+Clara%2C+CA++95054-3110&W=500&H=350&MA=2

It's in a complex of small startups at the corner of Scott Blvd and
Garrett Drive in Santa Clara.  To reach it, take US 101 to the Bowers
Avenue exit (heading south/oceanward), turn right in a few blocks on
Scott Blvd, and turn right on Garrett.  The first two driveways on the
right serve the complex; AWT's corner of the parking lot is at the
second.  You can also come in via Lawrence Expressway; go
east/SanJoseward on Arques Avenue (which becomes Scott Blvd) and turn
left on Garrett.

Autographed copies of the Cracking DES book will be available, and
the machine will be running.

There isn't a room large enough to have a sit-down meeting at AWT, so
we'll reconvene at 2:30 at Stanford University, at the outdoor tables
outside Tresidder Union, which is near the bookstore.  The tables are
on the west side, which is the inside of the U-shape.  Coffee and food
are available in the building.

http://www.stanford.edu/home/map/search_map.html?keyword=&ACADEMIC=Tresidder+Union
http://www.stanford.edu/home/map/stanford_zoom_map.html?234,312

Agenda: 12:00-2:00 at the machine location, 
	then move to Stanford and reconvene at 2:30.
	Dinner at a mutually agreed location will probably follow.

Speakers:
	Cracking DES - John Gilmore et al, 2:30 at Stanford
	"Private Doorbells" - John Bashinski, ~3:30

  -- John Gilmore




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Rabid Wombat 
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 15:00:52 +0800
To: John Clark 
Subject: Re: Shakespeare
In-Reply-To: <000201bdda24$dd4c87e0$0d924d0c@flrjs>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





On Mon, 7 Sep 1998, John Clark wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Tim May tcmay@got.net Wrote:
> 
> >I read part of a book about some pretty convincing evidence that the
> >works of "Shakespeare" were probably written by a member of Queen
> >Elizabeth's royal court.
> 
> I think that's unlikely, the myth probably started because some people can't
> imagine a person without royal blood being a genius.
> 

It is possible that you are both right, to some extent. Shakespeare has
often been accused of borrowing other's works, but the practice was quite
common in his day. If one author could not pull off a successful
presentation of a story line, another would often pick up the idea, refine
it, and present the concept in a somewhat different light. There were no
copyrights in those days. (it was also hard to come by an entire script - 
these were jealously guarded to discourage plagirism - if a play was 
"copied", it was more often from memory of a performance, or from the 
recollection of actors than from the actual script itself)

There were also two distinct forms of theatre; the small indoor
presentations (such as were presented to the royal court) were highbrow,
while the outdoor theatres were sustained by the commoners and varied 
from the serious to the bawdy (or downright vulgar -  the outdoor
theatres were not well received in some social circles, either). It is
entirely possible that a play that failed to gain acceptance, or even an
audience, at a more prestigeous indoor theatre was re-worked by another
author for the Theatre, or even the Curtain (a rowdy playhouse that often 
doubled as a bear pit). Shakespeare may very well have picked up the 
central theme for one(or more) of his works from an obscure indoor play, 
possibly written by a courtier; that doesn't diminish his genius.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Steve Schear 
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 10:55:46 +0800
To: Tim May 
Subject: Re: Citizenship silliness.  Re: e$: crypto-expatriatism
In-Reply-To: <199809090418.AAA25605@domains.invweb.net>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>And it wouldn't have happened had the victorious superpowers decided the
>sand niggers in Palestine could be kicked off their land. (I have no beef
>with those Jews who peacefully bought land in Palestine prior to this mass
>resettlement.)

No doubt the Arabs were being given the shaft. First by the Ottomans
(western lackys that they were) and then by the superpowers themselves
after they could no longer hide behind a puppet regime.

The Arabs didn't make things any better by refusing to accept any Jewish
settlers, including those who had purchased land from first the Ottomans
and then the Palestinians. The Palestinians had been told no harm would
come to those of them who stood aside and warned if they fought or fled
their lands they wouldn't be welcomed back.

When it comes to nations, fairness has historically had little influence on
such outcomes. In the end, all property belongs to those who can keep it
(by whatever means are necessary).

--Steve

---------------------------------------------------------------------
		reply to schear - at - lvcm - dot - com ---

PGP mail preferred, see  	http://www.pgp.com and
				http://web.mit.edu/network/pgp.html

RSA fingerprint: FE90 1A95 9DEA 8D61  812E CCA9 A44A FBA9
RSA key: http://keys.pgp.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=index&search=0x55C78B0D
---------------------------------------------------------------------





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 00:46:07 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Encryption Expert Says U.S. Laws Led to Renouncing of  Citizenship
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Delivered-To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
X-Sender: believer@telepath.com
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 11:29:29 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com
From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Encryption Expert Says U.S. Laws Led to Renouncing of
  Citizenship
Mime-Version: 1.0
Sender: owner-ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
Precedence: list
Reply-To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  New York Times
http://www.nytimes.com/library/tech/yr/mo/cyber/articles/06encrypt.html

September 6, 1998

Encryption Expert Says U.S. Laws Led to Renouncing of Citizenship

By PETER WAYNER

Most people who leave the United States and move to the
Caribbean dream of the freedom of perfect beaches, warm
winters and tropical fruits. Vince Cate says he sees a world where he has
complete freedom to write computer software and send it around the
world.

In 1994, Cate moved to
Anguilla and helped bring
Internet service to the tiny
island. Last Sunday night, he
went a step further and flew to
Barbados, site of the nearest
American consulate, to fill out
the paperwork to renounce his
U.S. citizenship.

Cate, an encryption expert and
one of the sponsors of an
annual academic conference on
financial cryptography in Anguilla, said he made the decision because he
is setting up a new company, Secure Accounts, that will design and build
basic software to handle electronic transactions. The software will rely
heavily on encryption to scramble the data traveling between users in
order to prevent fraud, theft and embezzlement. After renouncing his
citizenship, Cate said in an e-mail message that he wanted "to be free
from the silly U.S. laws on crypto."

Normally, setting up an international company does not require forgoing
citizenship in the United States, but Cate's expertise in creating
encryption software places him in a special class. If he were to offer any
advice to non-U.S. citizens about the encryption work built into his
financial transaction software, he would violate U.S. laws, which treat the
transfer of such encryption as illegal international arms traffic. These laws
apply throughout the world and are intended to stop U.S. citizens from
assisting others in developing encryption software.

"I'm not actually writing any crypto code," Cate said in a telephone
interview on Thursday. "But I'm supervising people who are."

The U.S. government treats secret coding software in the same way it
treats howitzers, tanks and chemical weapons because it can allow
foreigners to hide their communications from U.S. intelligence-gathering
organizations. In past wars, the United States gained important
advantages in the field of battle through carefully gathered information,
and the government does not want to lose what it sees as technical high
ground.

Many American software companies, however, see themselves losing
market share to foreign competitors who are able to create encryption
products unhampered by U.S. laws. They argue that good cryptographic
expertise is already well distributed around the world and that the laws
only give foreign competitors an advantage.

"We can provide a solution that works over the whole planet." Cate said
of his company. "U.S. companies can only provide a solution that is U.S.
only. We certainly have a competitive edge by being offshore."

Recently, many leading software companies like Sun Microsystems and
C2 Net have opened branches outside the United States, hiring foreign
nationals to do the work. This has required a complicated dance to avoid
breaking U.S. export laws like the ones that Cate is escaping.

Steve Walker, the former president of the encryption manufacturer
Trusted Information Systems, said of Cate's move, "All of us have
thought from time to time that we're fed up with things, but in reality it
doesn't accomplish much and you give up a lot."

Sameer Parekh, the president of the Web server company C2 Net, said:
"I think it's essential if you want business that you're doing your
development overseas. It's pretty clear to anyone internationally that
anything exportable [from the United States] is a joke."

C2 Net has development offices in Anguilla and Newbury, England.
Parekh says that there is great demand overseas for programmers who
know cryptography.

Walker agreed that American companies are hurt by the existing laws.
"There are foreign companies out there who are doing very well," he said,
"in part because they're selling products out there that the U.S. can't sell."

Rozell Thompson, a lawyer who specializes in negotiating export licenses,
said of Cate's decision: " I think that's pretty unnecessary in this
particular
case. If you're developing crypto for financial applications, it's exportable
anyways. There's a recognition that cryptography for electronic
commerce applications is going to be exportable."

The government is more lenient with software used by banks and other
financial institutions, in part because it recognizes the great need for such
software and in part because it already receives reports about much of
the transaction data cloaked by the encryption. Thompson said that Cate
would probably have been able to negotiate some sort of license with the
U.S. government, although this would have taken months and would
need to be repeated for each new project.

Cate's move also illuminates a bit of the international market for
citizenship. Before renouncing his U.S. citizenship, Cate became a citizen
of Mozambique for a fee of about $5,000. "This makes me an
American-African," he joked.

Cate's current home, Anguilla, requires people to wait 15 years before
applying for citizenship. He moved there in 1994 and has worked to
establish strong ties. In his spare time, he runs a computer club that
places old computers in the island's schools. "The computer club is also
my best source of talent searching," he said. "I have hired three students
right out of high school because I knew them from the computer club."

Edward Betancourt, a lawyer for the U.S. Department of State, said that
the notion that a person could freely choose their citizenship dates back
to the war of 1812, when British warships would often capture
Americans under the argument that they were really British subjects. He
said: "Most people seem to renounce for family reasons. They haven't
lived in the U.S. for some time and they don't want to deal with another
bureaucracy. Whether a person articulates [the decision] to us or not is
up to them. In most instances, people say 'I'm grateful to the U.S. and it's
not done in anger.'"

In 1996, the latest year for which data is available, 612 people lost their
citizenship. This number includes people like Cate who renounced their
citizenship, as well as others who expatriated themselves by serving in
foreign governments. The government requires a lengthy interview, in part
to determine whether people are leaving for tax reasons and to ensure
that the decision is made correctly.

Right now, Cate sees several advantages in his choice. "There's less
chance of getting in any trouble with the U.S. government and there's also
less chance of getting shot by a terrorist," he said, referring to the recent
actions targeting U.S. citizens.

 Copyright 1998 The New York Times Company
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




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--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Edwin E. Smith" 
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 03:26:07 +0800
To: "kryz" 
Subject: Re: "In dreams begin responsibility" - W.B. Yeats
In-Reply-To: <19980904224426.3.MAIL-SERVER@pub1.pub.whitehouse.gov>
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980906142140.008f3740@mailhost.IntNet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 06:22 PM 9/5/98 -0000, you wrote:
>
>
>----------
>| Date: vrijdag 4 september 1998 22:44:00
>| From: The White House
>| To: Public-Distribution@pub.pub.whitehouse.gov
>| Subject: 1998-09-04 Remarks by President to Officials of Gateway Computers
>|

---crap cut---


I thought you were dead.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 04:10:07 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Thoughtcrime
Message-ID: <199809062006.QAA12936@panix7.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



   >   From: Ray Arachelian 
   >
   >   IMHO, it shouldn't matter to us who is arrested, whether Jim Bell, Toto,
   >   Anonymous, or Vulis if the crime is nothing more than thoughtcrime.

Whether something is "thoughtcrime" can be shades of grey,
when it involves talk of threats of violence.

Thoughtcrime: arrested for possessing or viewing certain images of sex.

1/4 shade of grey: lottery talk to terminate government workers.

1/2 shade of grey: above person also caught hassling government employees.
   (I haven't really followed the Bell case; wasn't he caught stink-bombing
    IRS offices or something?

3/4 shade of grey: a magazine accepting an ad for ~"killer for hire".

black: Vulis sending threats in my name.

---guy, Vulis AntiMatter




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 04:15:17 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: 090498_crypto
Message-ID: <199809062012.QAA00594@panix7.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Ying:

   >   From: Jim Choate 
   >
   >      Tauzin: FBI won't get crypto key and more on high-tech and Capitol Hill 
   >      September 3, 1998 5:55 PM PT
   >      Updated at 6:58 PM PT
   >      
   >      SAN FRANCISCO -- An influential Congressman says Congress is close to
   >      resolving the bitter dispute over encryption software, and it looks as
   >      though it will be decided in favor of the high-tech industry.
   >      
   >      U.S. Rep. Bill Tauzin, R-La., said flatly that "we're not going to
   >      give the FBI the keys to the encryption system." The remark came as
   >      part of a wide-ranging interview with ZDNN.

Yang:

Subject: Terrorist FBI, on Terrorism
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 09:58:23 EDT

Statement for the Record
FBI Director Louis J. Freeh before the Senate Judiciary Committee,
September 3, 1998

Good morning Chairman Hatch and members of the judiciary committee. I
am pleased to be with you this morning as you explore the U.S.
Government's response to international terrorism.

[snip]

THE FUTURE

Would like to close by talking briefly about steps we can take to
further strengthen our abilities to prevent and investigate terrorist
activity.

ENCRYPTION

One of the most important of these steps involves the FBI's encryption
initiative. Communication is central to any collaborative effort --
including criminal conspiracies. Like most criminals, terrorists are
naturally reluctant to put the details of their plots down on paper.
Thus, they generally depend on oral or electronic communication to
formulate the details of their terrorist activities.

For this reason, the law enforcement community is very concerned about
the serious threat posed by the proliferation of encryption
technology. Current standards do not allow for law enforcement access
or the timely decryption of critical evidence obtained through lawful
electronic surveillance or search and seizures.

The FBI supports a balanced encryption policy that satisfies fourth
amendment concerns for privacy, the commercial needs of industry for
robust encryption, and the government's public safety and national
security needs.

The encryption capabilities available to criminals and terrorists
today effectively thwart the ability of law enforcement agencies to
implement the court-ordered surveillance techniques that have helped
put some of the nation's most dangerous offenders behind bars. Whether
a state police department is racing the clock to find a kidnapped
child or the FBI is attempting to track and prevent the destructive
ambitions of an international terrorist group, the need for timely
access to legally obtained electronic surveillance cannot be
overstated.

[snip]

EXPANSION OF FBI LEGATS

Likewise, the expansion of the number of FBI LEGATS around the world
has enhanced the ability of the FBI to prevent, respond to, and
investigate terrorist acts committed by international terrorists
against U.S. Interests worldwide. As evidenced by developments in the
embassy bombing cases in East Africa, the ability to bring
investigative resources to bear quickly in the aftermath of a
terrorist act can have significant impact on our ability to identify
those responsible. I encourage Congress to support our efforts to
counter the international terrorist threat by continuing to support
expansion of our LEGAT program.

[snip]




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 05:28:50 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Einsteins Doctorate
Message-ID: <199809062144.QAA00440@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> X-within-URL: http://tesuque.cs.sandia.gov/~bbooth/docs/einstein/einachievements.html

> Einstein worked at the patent office in Bern, Germany from 1902 to 1909. While
> he was there, he completed many publications of his theories concerning
> physics. He finished these on his own with no help from any scientific
> literature or colleagues. Eins tein earned a doctorate from the University of
> Zurich in 1905. In 1908, he became a lecturer at the Universtiy of Bern, and in
> the following year became professor of physics at the University of Zurich.

Nothing here or anywhere else I can find about Einstein getting an honorary
anything other than a membership in the New York Plumbers Union after Albert
had made a comment about being a plumber after being asked what he would do
if he didn't do physics.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                         To understand is to invent

                                       Jean Piaget

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 04:57:46 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: "Einstein's degree wasn't honorary...."
In-Reply-To: <199809050213.VAA10742@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



...says Jim Choate from the bowels of my kill file.


I believe I was talking about his doctorate, which, I think you'll see, was
in fact given to him on the strength of his already published work, by a
school in which he wasn't enrolled.

I would call that, no matter the rigor attached to the degree and the
quality of the school handing it out -- both of which were considerable, if
I remember -- an "honorary" doctorate.

As honorary degrees go, the Swiss school which did confer a doctorate upon
Einstein, and upon Diffie as well, I think, was supposed to be about the
best one you can get.

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 05:36:35 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Einstein, more specific about degree
Message-ID: <199809062153.QAA00511@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> X-within-URL: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/3555/einwho2.html

>    Einstein as a patent clerk Albert Einstein returned to the Zurich
>    Polytechnic, after attending secondary school at Arau and graduated
>    there in the spring of 1900 as a secondary school teacher of
>    mathematics and physics. By then he had given up German citizenship in
>    favor of Swiss, to avoid the draft. He worked about two month as a
>    mathematics teacher, before he was employed as examiner at the Swiss
>    patent office in Bern. Having now a certain economic security he
>    married Mileva Maric, his university girlfriend three years later.
>    
>    Einstein became father in 1904 when his wife gave birth to his son
>    Hans Albert.
>    
>    Early in 1905 he published a thesis, "A New Determination of Molecular
>    Dimensions" in the prestigious physics monthly "Analen der Physik"
>    which won him a Ph.D. from the University and was the begin of the end
>    for the old view of the universe. Previous 


    ____________________________________________________________________

                         To understand is to invent

                                       Jean Piaget

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 11:06:10 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: What we are Fighting
In-Reply-To: <199809062012.QAA00594@panix7.panix.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




>> Subject: Terrorist FBI, on Terrorism
>> Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 09:58:23 EDT
>>
>> Statement for the Record
>> FBI Director Louis J. Freeh before the Senate Judiciary Committee,
>> September 3, 1998

>> The FBI supports a balanced encryption policy that satisfies fourth
>> amendment concerns for privacy, the commercial needs of industry for
>> robust encryption, and the government's public safety and national
>> security needs.

For the Nth time, let me restate the obvious: all current crypto
restrictions being discussed involve _exports_. There are no domestic
restrctictions whatsoever on domestic use of crypto. Any of us, even
resident aliens, tourists, terrorists, etc. are perfectly free to use PGP,
one time pads, stego, and even Meganet Snake Oil Unbreakable Crypto.

There are, officially, no proposals on the table to limit speech within the
U.S. by limiting the types and forms of language may use. There is the SAFE
bill, which stands zero chance of passing, but this involves relaxing
export requirements (though I expect compromises added, such as the
felonization of crypto use in a crime, are an unwelcome step toward
domestic restrictions).

But it bears constant repeating, especially to the skeptical, that there
are NO DOMESTIC CRYPTO LAWS. Unlike some other countries, the fascists have
not yet managed to get a foothold in the attempt to limit use of crypto by
the citizen-units.

We all know this, but Freeh and Company continue to mumble about "meeting
the legitmate needs of law enforcement." What can they be speaking of?

And since the Fourth Amendment is an internal U.S. thing (not counting
limited applicability to some foreigners, and of course to U.S. citizens
abroad who encounter U.S. offices, etc.), what can Louis possibly be
referring to when he speaks of the Fourth Amendment? Surely he is not
referring to satisfying the Fourth Amendment concerns for privacy amongst
the Russians, Afghans, and so forth?

Obviously his side is contemplating domestic crypto restrictions.

We all know this, but it sometimes bears repeating what the Constitution
says, what the status quo is, and what they are proposing.

They are planning domestic crypto restrictions, GAK, and all the rest of
what we have long expected.

When that comes, anyone will be full jusfified in taking action by any
means necessary to halt the onset of the total state.

--Tim May

"The tree of liberty must be watered periodically with the blood of
tyrants...."
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist              | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 09:32:07 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Last Einstein & his degree...
Message-ID: <199809070147.UAA00864@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> X-within-URL: http://www.humboldt1.com/~gralsto/einstein/early.html

>    After two years he obtained a post at the Swiss patent office in Bern.
>    The patent-office work required Einstein's careful attention, but
>    while employed (1902-09) there, he completed an astonishing range of
>    publications in theoretical physics. For the most part these texts
>    were written in his spare time and without the benefit of close
>    contact with either the scientific literature or theoretician
>    colleagues. Einstein submitted one of his scientific papers to the
>    University of Zurich to obtain a Ph.D. degree in 1905. In 1908 he sent
>    a second paper to the University of Bern and became a lecturer there.
>    The next year Einstein received a regular appointment as associate
>    professor of physics at the University of Zurich.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 10:15:27 +0800
To: Information Security 
Subject: Re: 090498_crypto
In-Reply-To: <199809062012.QAA00594@panix7.panix.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Crypto came up a couple times during Q&A as well. 

-Declan


On Sun, 6 Sep 1998, Information Security wrote:

> Ying:
> 
>    >   From: Jim Choate 
>    >
>    >      Tauzin: FBI won't get crypto key and more on high-tech and Capitol Hill 
>    >      September 3, 1998 5:55 PM PT
>    >      Updated at 6:58 PM PT
>    >      
>    >      SAN FRANCISCO -- An influential Congressman says Congress is close to
>    >      resolving the bitter dispute over encryption software, and it looks as
>    >      though it will be decided in favor of the high-tech industry.
>    >      
>    >      U.S. Rep. Bill Tauzin, R-La., said flatly that "we're not going to
>    >      give the FBI the keys to the encryption system." The remark came as
>    >      part of a wide-ranging interview with ZDNN.
> 
> Yang:
> 
> Subject: Terrorist FBI, on Terrorism
> Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 09:58:23 EDT
> 
> Statement for the Record
> FBI Director Louis J. Freeh before the Senate Judiciary Committee,
> September 3, 1998
> 
> Good morning Chairman Hatch and members of the judiciary committee. I
> am pleased to be with you this morning as you explore the U.S.
> Government's response to international terrorism.
> 
> [snip]
> 
> THE FUTURE
> 
> Would like to close by talking briefly about steps we can take to
> further strengthen our abilities to prevent and investigate terrorist
> activity.
> 
> ENCRYPTION
> 
> One of the most important of these steps involves the FBI's encryption
> initiative. Communication is central to any collaborative effort --
> including criminal conspiracies. Like most criminals, terrorists are
> naturally reluctant to put the details of their plots down on paper.
> Thus, they generally depend on oral or electronic communication to
> formulate the details of their terrorist activities.
> 
> For this reason, the law enforcement community is very concerned about
> the serious threat posed by the proliferation of encryption
> technology. Current standards do not allow for law enforcement access
> or the timely decryption of critical evidence obtained through lawful
> electronic surveillance or search and seizures.
> 
> The FBI supports a balanced encryption policy that satisfies fourth
> amendment concerns for privacy, the commercial needs of industry for
> robust encryption, and the government's public safety and national
> security needs.
> 
> The encryption capabilities available to criminals and terrorists
> today effectively thwart the ability of law enforcement agencies to
> implement the court-ordered surveillance techniques that have helped
> put some of the nation's most dangerous offenders behind bars. Whether
> a state police department is racing the clock to find a kidnapped
> child or the FBI is attempting to track and prevent the destructive
> ambitions of an international terrorist group, the need for timely
> access to legally obtained electronic surveillance cannot be
> overstated.
> 
> [snip]
> 
> EXPANSION OF FBI LEGATS
> 
> Likewise, the expansion of the number of FBI LEGATS around the world
> has enhanced the ability of the FBI to prevent, respond to, and
> investigate terrorist acts committed by international terrorists
> against U.S. Interests worldwide. As evidenced by developments in the
> embassy bombing cases in East Africa, the ability to bring
> investigative resources to bear quickly in the aftermath of a
> terrorist act can have significant impact on our ability to identify
> those responsible. I encourage Congress to support our efforts to
> counter the international terrorist threat by continuing to support
> expansion of our LEGAT program.
> 
> [snip]
> 
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: announce@inbox.nytimes.com (New York Times subscription robot)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 12:20:16 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Welcome to The New York Times on the Web
Message-ID: <199809070504.AAA45356@inbox.nytimes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: roger@opusnet.com
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 00:37:30 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Let Us Promote Your Site -bfftoehx
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-------------------------------------------------------------------
cypherpunks  Removal Instructions can be found at the bottom of this page !
-------------------------------------------------------------------


Hello cypherpunks

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 16:01:00 +0800
To: Tim May 
Subject: Re: Snakes of Medusa torment Larry Detweiler
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199809070757.AAA07875@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



hi timmy. we have reached a breakthrough in your psychotherapy
in which you actually address me directly 

you completely gloss over my point about Linux, because
it demonstrates my arguments very well. those who work
on Linux are very similar to cpunks. distributed all
over the world, and they are united by a common desire/vision
and mailing lists.  you have an unexpressed 
hatred of some aspects of
hacking, of course, so you find linux repulsive and
incomprehensible.

this list has always lacked vision, by *anyone*. a group
is united by a vision. if you have no vision, you have
nothing but a bunch of anarchists who cannot accomplish
anything substantial together. want proof? how about the
history of the last few years of mounting irrelevance of
this list?

what you get is miniature
projects that may succeed or fail, and if they succeed,
an implication is carried that they are "cpunk" projects.
there are obviously no cpunk projects. and that's the
weakness of this so-called "group". any time such a project is proposed
by anyone, self-righteous anarchists such as yourself
shoot it down.

ok, mount one of your lame arguments that "this is only
a mailing list. there are no projects". again, precisely.
you want more out of this list, or less? every time I 
tell you how to get more, you say you want less. every
time you complain you get less, I tell you how to get more.

sure, let's have an immature debate society. we've had
that for what, ~6 years or so? the time flies when you're
having fun 

aren't you somewhat ashamed that the recent EFF crack
had *nothing* to do with anyone on this list? frankly, I think
it's pretty lame. imagine the way a 
mailing list can help mobilize support and
resources. we've seen glimpes in the past of this.
instead Gilmore did it entirely behind the
scenes, never announcing it to this list, because 
clearly no one here has the maturity to cooperate to complete
a meaningful project. there are only complaints, as lead
by the Lead Sniper. (wow, that's a funny term, with lots
of implications, I think I might start using it more often!!!)
btw, killed any cats lately??

a huge waste of talent, if you ask me, and the main reason
that you have such a high turnover/attrition on this list.
ever asked yourself why there is so much turnover/attrition
here? but we're not going to get very far, with you conveniently
deleting my key points as usual. stick your head in the
digital /dev/null some more. see no VZN, hear no VZN, 
speak no VZN. truly your philosophy...!!!

"eletrocracy"? I have no idea what you're talking about.
whatever it is, it does sound pretty infantile!!!
a useful straw man, I suppose.  maybe if you elaborated it 
might refresh my memory 






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 16:13:31 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: digital sig bill
Message-ID: <199809070809.BAA08498@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




------- Forwarded Message

To: believer@telepath.com
From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: About Digital Signature Bill

09/05/98 0752

Source:  US Newswire
http://www.usnewswire.com/topnews/Current_Releases/0904-138.txt

Abraham Urges Senate to Pass Digital Signature Bill 
U.S. Newswire
4 Sep 17:30

 Abraham Urges Senate to Pass Digital Signature Bill Next Week
 To: National Desk
 Contact: Joe McMonigle of the Office of U.S. Sen. Spencer Abraham,
          202-224-8833

   WASHINGTON, Sept. 4 /U.S. Newswire/ -- While President Clinton
used a visit in Ireland today to digitally sign an electronic
commerce agreement with Irish Prime Minister Bertie Ahern on a laptop
computer, U.S. Sen. Spencer Abraham (R-Mich.) urged his colleagues in
the Senate to pass his legislation requiring federal agencies to
start allowing the public to do the same.

   S.2107, the Government Paperwork Elimination Act, would require
federal agencies to make versions of their forms available online and
allow people to submit these forms with digital signatures instead of
handwritten ones.  It also sets up a process by which commercially
developed digital signatures can be used in submitting forms to the
government and permits the digital storage of federal documents.

   "If it's okay for President Clinton and Prime Minister Ahern, it
should also be okay for the federal government to recognize the
digital signature of ordinary Americans," Abraham said.  "This
legislation will bring the federal government into the electronic
age, in the process saving American individuals and companies
millions of dollars and hundreds of hours currently wasted on
government paperwork," Abraham said.  "Each and every year, Americans
spend in excess of $600 billion simply filing out, documenting and
handling government paperwork.  This huge loss of time and money
constitutes a significant drain on our economy and we must bring it
under control."

   "By providing individuals and companies with the option of
electronic filing and storage, this bill will reduce the paperwork
burden imposed by government on the American people and the American
economy.  It will allow people to move from printed forms they must
fill out using typewriters or handwriting to digitally-based forms
that can be filled out using a word processor.  This savings in time,
storage and postage will be enormous," said Abraham.

   The Government Paperwork Elimination Act would:

   -- Require the federal government make available its forms online
and allow citizens to sign forms by the use of digital signatures.

   -- Direct the Commerce Department to conduct a study of the impact
of this Act on the use of digital signatures for electronic commerce
and on individual privacy.

   -- Allow Executive Agencies 18 months to establish a method for
agencies to put forms online.  The forms must be able to be filled
out, signed and filed with the agency electronically.

   -- Work to develop a system whereby fees and payments associated
with the forms can also be submitted at the same time.  For example,
a citizen could use their tax software to create all the information
necessary for filling out their tax forms, fill in the IRS online
form, submit it and any indicated payments, and immediately receive a
tax receipt.

   -- Enable the federal government to allow its employees to have
digital signatures for use with citizens and allow agencies to use
electronic notice where written notice had been required, if the
citizen prefers electronic notice.

   -- Establish that a digital signature will have legal standing.

   -- Provide that Administration guidelines and procedures for
electronic signatures that are used for the government forms that are
compatible with those the private sector will be using for commerce,
and specifies that any system used by the government must be industry
and technology neutral.

   -- State that if an employer is required to collect, file and
store paper forms that are completed by employees, that electronic
storage will likely be accepted.

   -- Allow the government five years to implement these provisions.

   "The information age is no longer new.  We are in the midst of a
revolution in the way people do business and maintain records.  The
Government Paperwork Elimination Act will force Washington to catch
up with these developments, and release our businesses from the drag
of an obsolete bureaucracy as they pursue further innovations," said
Abraham.

   Co-sponsors of the Paperwork Elimination Act include Sens. Ron
Wyden (D-Ore.), Jack Reed (D-R.I.), John McCain (R-Ariz.), Trent Lott
(R-Miss.), Thad Cochran (R-Miss.), and Conrad Burns (R-Mont.)

 -0-
 /U.S. Newswire  202-347-2770/
 09/04 17:30

Copyright 1998, U.S. Newswire
- -----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
- -----------------------




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with the message:
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------- End of Forwarded Message




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ulf@fitug.de (Ulf =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=F6ller?=)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 07:54:14 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: ISAKMP Key Recovery Extensions
In-Reply-To: <199809011443.KAA23307@ietf.org>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>From the IETF's IPSEC Working Group:

	Title		: ISAKMP Key Recovery Extensions
	Author(s)	: T. Markham
	Filename	: draft-rfced-exp-markham-00.txt
	Pages		: 13
	Date		: 31-Aug-98
	
    This document describes the proposed approach for negotiating and
    exchanging key recovery information within the Internet Security
    Association Key Management Protocol (ISAKMP).

ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-rfced-exp-markham-00.txt




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "John Clark" 
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 14:05:10 +0800
To: 
Subject: Shakespeare
Message-ID: <000201bdda24$dd4c87e0$0d924d0c@flrjs>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Tim May tcmay@got.net Wrote:

>I read part of a book about some pretty convincing evidence that the
>works of "Shakespeare" were probably written by a member of Queen
>Elizabeth's royal court.

I think that's unlikely, the myth probably started because some people can't
imagine a person without royal blood being a genius.

>This guy had the time, had the education, knew the workings of
>royalty, and was an accomplished writer...all things the nearly-illiterate
>(evidence shows) Wm. Shakespeare, a merchant, did not have.

There is little evidence that Shakespeare was  a merchant, although his
father was, he was a glover and a very successful one, at least until
Shakespeare was a teenager when his Father lost most of his money.
Although he doesn't seem to have gone to collage, as the son of
a rich man he did go to the equivalent of very good grade and high schools
where he certainly learned Latin and Greek and History.  In addition there
Is a 10 year gap between the time he finished "high school" and he when
he wrote his first play. Some think he traveled, some think he was in the
military, whatever he did he must have learned about the world. Also, I
don't see how an actor could be illiterate, true he did spell his name
differently on occasion but that wasn't unusual at a time before spelling
was standardized.

There was certainly an actor named William Shakespeare who got rich off the
royalties from plays he claimed to have written over a period of 20 years,
he made enough money to buy the second largest house in his hometown. If
Shakespeare didn't write them it's hard to understand why the real author
never objected but instead kept writing new plays to make another man even
more money.

>one of the biggest problems with applying computerized analysis
>to these works is the paucity of material known to be written by the
>"real" Wm. Shakespeare, the historical person.

If you look at all the words in Shakespeare's plays and poems you will find
that about 30% of the words he uses one time and never again in anything he
wrote. This percentage is vastly greater than any other writer of his day
or our own. I think this statistic is amazing and probably important, but I
confess I'm not quite sure what to make of it. Does it prove it was written
by a committee or by a genius who could always find exactly the right word?
I lean toward the genius theory.


PS; Tim this is the first time I've had the pleasure of responding to one of
your posts since you were on the Extropian List, I'm still on that list
because it has a much higher signal to noise ratio than most, feel free to
drop by for a visit, you would be welcome.

  John K Clark    jonkc@att.net


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.5.5

iQA/AwUBNfN1JN+WG5eri0QzEQIVTACfbLmnspemT7gid05/JlPBDtuMUfUAoP+E
S8k9L8yiMJmJzN+chRDY7tjV
=vAg0
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 15:38:02 +0800
To: "Frank O'Dwyer" 
Subject: Re: [Fwd: ISAKMP Key Recovery Extensions]
In-Reply-To: <35F37E90.76109489@brd.ie>
Message-ID: <199809070734.DAA21427@domains.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



In <35F37E90.76109489@brd.ie>, on 09/07/98 
   at 07:34 AM, "Frank O'Dwyer"  said:


>Well, the attached draft is not designed for corporate recovery of
>encrypted email, that's for sure.

4.  ACKNOWLEDGMENTS

This document was produced based on the combined efforts of the protocol
subcommittee of the Key Recovery Alliance.


Why am I not surprised?

I hope the IETF will not accept the implementation of *any* GAK proposals
into the RFC's. If these people want to force Big Brother on us they
should not have the benefit of the IETF to do so.

I plan on writting to the Security Group at the IETF on this. Hopefully it
will not be accepted for consideration. I would like to see the IETF have
a blanket policy automatically rejecting any GAK proposals but that might
be too much to ask.

-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
---------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 16:07:33 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: KRAP is at it in the IETF
Message-ID: <199809070805.EAA21826@domains.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Hello,

It has come to my attention that the KRAP (key recovery alliance program)
has submitted an I-D (internet draft) to the IETF for adding GAK
(government access to keys) to the IPSEC protocols:

ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-rfced-exp-markham-00.txt

ISAKMP Key Recovery Extensions


7. AUTHOR INFORMATION

   Tom Markham
   Secure Computing Corp
   2675 Long Lake Road
   Roseville, MN 55113   USA

   Phone: 651.628.2754,    Fax:   651.628.2701
   EMail: tom_markham@securecomputing.com


I consider this a perversion of the standards process of the IETF to
advance a political agenda which must be stopped at all cost.

Below are the e-mail addresses of some people that you should write
(politely) expressing your objections to any such additions to the
protocols:

IPSEC Chairs:

Theodore Ts'o 
Robert Moskowitz 

Security Area Directors:

Jeffrey Schiller 
Marcus Leech 

As I mentioned before, be polite. These people are not the ones proposing
GAK be added to the IPSEC protocols. They have put a lot of time and
effort in forwarding the cause for strong encryption. They should be made
aware of the communities objections to these attempts by KRAP.

Thanks,

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: It's OS/2, Jim, but not OS/2 as we know it.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3a-sha1
Charset: cp850
Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000

iQCVAwUBNfOVk49Co1n+aLhhAQFJwwP+O4vrZVKFpOG8vCHFwbDuPIv/99AhBnKF
RK/Ikc5y2gGKq9hfxkTb4o77YUrDaEGkYUPHk+ZC57Oag0Lu1v6W1EAbQ5T4RpzH
JWYXOonQmbqw5rH0h6brzqrH3ep9Ej9DR0gv4mGgIfSNlJSUu6TWO5ZHXKWiE4yy
5flH0Ngg/TI=
=EzNL
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Blanc" 
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 18:09:54 +0800
To: 
Subject: RE: Snakes of Medusa torment Larry Detweiler
In-Reply-To: <199809070757.AAA07875@netcom13.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <000701bdda48$215d3920$4f8195cf@blanc>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>From Vladimir Z Neurological:

: sure, let's have an immature debate society. we've had
: that for what, ~6 years or so? the time flies when you're
: having fun 

	[ . . . ]

: a huge waste of talent, if you ask me, and the main reason
: that you have such a high turnover/attrition on this list.
: ever asked yourself why there is so much turnover/attrition
: here?  [... and so forth ... ]
.........................................................

I ask myself why you're still hanging around on this worthless list after all this time,
LD, seeing as how you yourself - unlike everyone else - are so mature, so talented, and
would rather be coding than wasting your time reading what TCM has to say about anything.

It must be that you really enjoy it and find it intrinsically valuable.
    ..
Blanc




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: jimg@mentat.com (Jim Gillogly)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 20:40:37 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: IP: Encryption Expert Says U.S. Laws Led to Renouncing of   Citizenship
Message-ID: <199809071236.FAA05486@zendia.mentat.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



M-K Shen wrote:
> 
> Robert Hettinga wrote:
> > 
> > Sameer Parekh, the president of the Web server company C2 Net, said:
> > "I think it's essential if you want business that you're doing your
> > development overseas. It's pretty clear to anyone internationally that
> > anything exportable [from the United States] is a joke."
> 
> Let's wait and see whether AES will be genuinely exportable.

Why wait?  None of the AES candidates is currently exportable without a
license, and the much weaker DES algorithm that one of them will replace
is not exportable without a license.  In fact, according to the instructions
posted at NIST the algorithm designers from outside the US and Canada were
required to fill out export license applications in order to get a copy of
their own algorithms back from NIST.

Without a change in the regulations AES will be no more exportable
than DES is now.

	Jim Gillogly




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 21:56:34 +0800
To: Tim May 
Subject: Re: What we are Fighting
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




On Sun, 6 Sep 1998, Tim May wrote:
> 
> There are, officially, no proposals on the table to limit speech within the
> U.S. by limiting the types and forms of language may use. There is the SAFE
> bill, which stands zero chance of passing, but this involves relaxing
> export requirements (though I expect compromises added, such as the
> felonization of crypto use in a crime, are an unwelcome step toward
> domestic restrictions).

Every version of SAFE includes crypto-in-a-crime as a key component. The
thinking of its drafters and backers like Reps. Goodlatte, Eschoo,
Lofgren, CDT, and some corporate lobbyists is that it would be too
politically controversial to pass Congress without it.

There is, offically, a proposal on the table to limit speech within the
U.S. by restricting sale, manufacture, distribution, import of non-GAK'd
crypto. A House committee approved that one year ago.

-Declan

PS: Note to DC cypherpunks. There's a meet/party 9-19 in Adams Morgan.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Frank O'Dwyer" 
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 14:43:03 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: [Fwd: ISAKMP Key Recovery Extensions]
Message-ID: <35F37E90.76109489@brd.ie>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Well, the attached draft is not designed for corporate recovery of
encrypted email, that's for sure.

Cheers,
Frank O'Dwyer.

To: cryptography@c2.net, cypherpunks@algebra.com
Subject: Re: ISAKMP Key Recovery Extensions
From: ulf@fitug.de (Ulf Möller)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 98 01:47 +0200
In-Reply-To: <199809011443.KAA23307@ietf.org>
Organization: HR13
Sender: owner-cypherpunks@algebra.com


>From the IETF's IPSEC Working Group:

	Title		: ISAKMP Key Recovery Extensions
	Author(s)	: T. Markham
	Filename	: draft-rfced-exp-markham-00.txt
	Pages		: 13
	Date		: 31-Aug-98
	
    This document describes the proposed approach for negotiating and
    exchanging key recovery information within the Internet Security
    Association Key Management Protocol (ISAKMP).

ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-rfced-exp-markham-00.txt





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 20:05:17 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: What we are Fighting
Message-ID: <199809071201.IAA01590@panix7.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



   >   From: Tim May 
   >   >Information "I am not a klook" Security wrote:
   >
   >   >> Subject: Terrorist FBI, on Terrorism
   >   >> Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 09:58:23 EDT
   >   >>
   >   >> Statement for the Record
   >   >> FBI Director Louis J. Freeh before the Senate Judiciary Committee,
   >   >> September 3, 1998
   >
   >   >> The FBI supports a balanced encryption policy that satisfies fourth
   >   >> amendment concerns for privacy, the commercial needs of industry for
   >   >> robust encryption, and the government's public safety and national
   >   >> security needs.
   >
   >   But it bears constant repeating, especially to the skeptical, that there
   >   are NO DOMESTIC CRYPTO LAWS.
   >
   >   We all know this, but Freeh and Company continue to mumble about "meeting
   >   the legitmate needs of law enforcement." What can they be speaking of?
   >
   >   Obviously his side is contemplating domestic crypto restrictions.
   >
   >   They are planning domestic crypto restrictions, GAK, and all the rest of
   >   what we have long expected.

They have stated so openly; ~"if we hear a lot of encrypted hiss from [CALEA]
intercepts, we'll need GAK to be the law of the land". (a tilde before the
quote means I am paraphrasing).

In fact, at the same time the FBI used to say they weren't calling for
such a law, they were pushing behind the scenes for it.

*   http://epic.org/crypto/ban/fbi_dox/impact_text.gif
*
*   SECRET FBI report
*
*                   NEED FOR A NATIONAL POLICY
*
*   A national policy embodied in legislation is needed which insures
*   that cryptography use in the United States should be forced to be
*   crackable by law enforcement, so such communications can be monitored
*   with real-time decryption.
*   
*   All cryptography that cannot meet this standard should be prohibited.

And here's the ECHELON/UKUSA slant:

*   What Is The OECD
*
*   The Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development, based in
*   Paris, France, is a unique forum permitting governments of the
*   industrialized democracies to study and formulate the best policies
*   possible in all economic and social spheres.

: From owner-firewalls-outgoing@GreatCircle.COM Wed May 14 18:54:15 1997
: Received: from osiris (osiris.nso.org [207.30.58.40]) by ra.nso.org
:           (post.office MTA v1.9.3 ID# 0-13592) with SMTP id AAA322
:           for ; Wed, 14 May 1997 12:56:13 -0400
: Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 12:58:46 -0400
: To: firewalls@GreatCircle.COM
: From: research@isr.net (Research Unit I)
: Subject: Re: Encryption Outside US
:
:
: I was part of that OECD Expert Group, and believe I may shine at least
: some light on what exactly was said and happened at the meetings.
:
: The main conflict during all sessions was the demand of the US to be
: able to decrypt anything, anywhere at any time versus the European
: focus: we want to have the choice - with an open end - to maintain
: own surveillance.  The US demand would have caused an immediate
: ability to tap into what the European intelligence community believes to
: be its sole and exclusive territory. In fact the Europeans were not at all
: pleased with the US view points of controlling ALL crypto. Germany and
: France vigorously refused to work with the US on this issue.
:
: The Clipper initiative (at the time not readily developed) was completely
: banned, except for the Australian and UK views that felt some obligation
: from the 1947 UKUSA treaty (dealing with interchange of intelligence).
:
: With a vast majority the US was cornered completely, and had to accept
: the international views. And actually adopted those as well.  EFF, EPIC and
: other US organizations were delighted to see the formal US views barred,
: but expressed their concern on the development of alternate political
: pressure that would cause the same effects.
:
: As time went by that was indeed what the US did, and up to now with minor
: success.
:
: Bertil Fortrie
: Internet Security Review

Declan, wanna track down this person and find out the names of those
who spoke of the ultra-secret UKUSA treaty that's never been seen,
and interview them?

----

When Sonny Bono hit a tree, yet another Senator convinced by the FBI/NSA's
little presentation of horrors (which is preceded by a visible sweep for
electronic bugs) was lost. Only an Executive Order seems like it will get
domestic crypto "outlawed".

One continued worrisome slant to the FBI/NSAs pushing for domestic GAK
is that they use the same arguments for retaining export controls (which
Clinton did by Executive Order, or they would have expired) as they give
for wanting to extend these controls domestically.

LART me if I'm wrong, but that makes the issue different from most
other export-controlled non-secret technology/products.

----

I still think someone (without a job ;-) should test the export law
by pulling in PGP from outside the US and then immediately putting
it back at the same site.

If could find someone on the lower East Side willing to do it
for $5000. Gilmore, care to make another investment in making
the government's position look silly? ;-)

---guy




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 20:27:49 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: What we are Fighting
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Tim asks:

>Freeh and Company continue to mumble about "meeting
>the legitmate needs of law enforcement." What can they 
>be speaking of?
...
>Obviously his side is contemplating domestic crypto restrictions.

Threat of terrorism will be the impetus for applying national security 
restrictions domestically, for relaxing cold war limitations on spying
on Americans, for dissolving barriers between law enforcement
and military/intelligence agencies.

Technical means for access to encrypted data will probably
come first in communications, then to stored material. There
will be an agreement for increased CALEA wiretap funding, which 
is what the two cellular and wired suits against the FBI intend,
(paralleling what the hardware and software industries want from
federal buyers of security products).

This will provide the infrastructural regime for the gov to monitor 
and store domestic traffic as NSA does for the global, using the 
same technology (NSA may provide service to domestic
LEA as it now does for other gov customers for intel).

Other access will come through hardware and software for
computers, paralleling technology developed for telecomm tapping,
tracking and monitoring. 

Most probably through overt/covert features of microprocessors 
and OS's, as reported recently of Wintel and others, but also 
probably with special chips for DSP and software for modular 
design -- why build from scratch when these handy kits are 
available.

As noted here, the features will appear first as optional, in response
to demand from commerce, from parents, from responsible
institutions, to meet public calls for protection, for privacy, for
combating threats to the American people. 

Like wiretap law, use of the features for preventative snooping will 
initially require a court order, as provided in several of the crypto 
legislative proposals.

Like the wiretap orders, gradually there will be no secret court refusals 
for requests to use the technology in the national interest.

A publicity campain will proclaims that citizens with nothing to hide 
will have nothing to fear. Assurance of safety will be transparent, 
no clicks on the line. In a digital world, home-office devices will send
lifestyle data to the device manufacturers over the always monitoring 
transparental Net.

Personal privacy will evaporate almost unnoticeably, as with the tv 
remote control, cp/defcon/bar brag, telephone, fax and forever-lovers 
pillowtalk.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 20:22:38 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: [Fwd: ISAKMP Key Recovery Extensions]
Message-ID: <199809071219.IAA01745@panix7.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



   >   From: "William H. Geiger III" 
   >
   >   In <35F37E90.76109489@brd.ie>, on 09/07/98 
   >      at 07:34 AM, "Frank O'Dwyer"  said:
   >
   >   >Well, the attached draft is not designed for corporate recovery of
   >   >encrypted email, that's for sure.
   >
   >   4.  ACKNOWLEDGMENTS
   >
   >   This document was produced based on the combined efforts of the protocol
   >   subcommittee of the Key Recovery Alliance.
   >
   >   Why am I not surprised?
   >
   >   I hope the IETF will not accept the implementation of *any* GAK proposals
   >   into the RFC's. If these people want to force Big Brother on us they
   >   should not have the benefit of the IETF to do so.


    ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-rfced-exp-markham-00.txt
    
     o Government Requirements: Governments must be able to intercept the
    CKRB at the time of key establishment or periodically while the
    security association remains active. This requires that the key
    recovery enabled entity transmit the CKRB during the key establishment
    protocol and every N hours during the security association.

Whooey!

They've been infiltrated by idjits.
---guy




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 20:55:29 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: What we are Fighting
In-Reply-To: <199809071201.IAA01590@panix7.panix.com>
Message-ID: <199809071245.IAA26339@camel7.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Guy wrote:

>I still think someone (without a job ;-) should test the export law
>by pulling in PGP from outside the US and then immediately putting
>it back at the same site.

The Ft. Bragg Net-offering of PGP (since withdrawn) has been available 
on our site without restrictions since April 1998 in the public interest:

   http://jya.com/pgp262-mil.zip  (includes the Ft. Bragg page; 274K)






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 20:55:55 +0800
To: tytso@mit.edu
Subject: KRAP is at it in the IETF
Message-ID: <199809071253.IAA01912@panix7.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



   >   From: "William H. Geiger III" 
   >
   >   -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
   >
   >   Hello,
   >
   >   It has come to my attention that the KRAP (key recovery alliance program)
   >   has submitted an I-D (internet draft) to the IETF for adding GAK
   >   (government access to keys) to the IPSEC protocols:
   >
   >   ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-rfced-exp-markham-00.txt
   >
   >   I consider this a perversion of the standards process of the IETF to
   >   advance a political agenda which must be stopped at all cost.
   >
   >   Below are the e-mail addresses of some people that you should write
   >   (politely) expressing your objections to any such additions to the
   >   protocols:

Dear Sirs,

#    o Government Requirements: Governments must be able to intercept the
#   CKRB at the time of key establishment or periodically while the
#   security association remains active. This requires that the key
#   recovery enabled entity transmit the CKRB during the key establishment
#   protocol and every N hours during the security association.

   Speaking as someone who monitors company Internet traffic (email)
for compliance and security purposes, I would like to ask why the IETF
is working on a key recovery standard.

   If a company chooses to deploy, say, PGP with key recovery internally,
then any messages sent with it encrypted in the receiving party's public
key are available to the sending company's Information Security personnel.

   If a company wishes to make the key recovery information available
to the government, they can individually choose to do that.

   The IETF should not be helping to put such an infrastructure in place.

   Governments are our adversaries with respect to encryption and privacy.

   The US government, represented by the FBI/NSA, used to state that they
weren't pushing for mandatory domestic encryption. (requiring people use
curtains on their homes that the government can see through)

   Eventually we found out they lied, and were pushing for exactly that
behind the scenes:

*   http://epic.org/crypto/ban/fbi_dox/impact_text.gif
*
*   SECRET FBI report
*                         
*                   NEED FOR A NATIONAL POLICY  
*                             
*   A national policy embodied in legislation is needed which insures
*   that cryptography use in the United States should be forced to be
*   crackable by law enforcement, so such communications can be monitored
*   with real-time decryption.
*
*   All cryptography that cannot meet this standard should be prohibited.

   Feel free to cite this manipulation when discarding key recovery proposals.

   If you put a key recovery proposal in place, it makes it that much
easier for them to require its use.

   Plus my basic complaint: this proposal is of no use to business
or Internet users.

   None.

   Its only purpose is to allow interception and decoding over the Internet.

   And if you think this would happen only with a court order, check out
this "anytime, anywhere" wording by the US government...
---guy

   Don't be another cog in the ECHELON monitoring machine.



The U.S. asked the OECD to agree to internationally required Key Recovery.

*   What Is The OECD
*
*   The Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development, based in
*   Paris, France, is a unique forum permitting governments of the
*   industrialized democracies to study and formulate the best policies
*   possible in all economic and social spheres.

: From owner-firewalls-outgoing@GreatCircle.COM Wed May 14 18:54:15 1997
: Received: from osiris (osiris.nso.org [207.30.58.40]) by ra.nso.org
:           (post.office MTA v1.9.3 ID# 0-13592) with SMTP id AAA322
:           for ; Wed, 14 May 1997 12:56:13 -0400
: Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 12:58:46 -0400
: To: firewalls@GreatCircle.COM
: From: research@isr.net (Research Unit I)
: Subject: Re: Encryption Outside US
: 
: 
: I was part of that OECD Expert Group, and believe I may shine at least
: some light on what exactly was said and happened at the meetings.
: 
: The main conflict during all sessions was the demand of the US to be
: able to decrypt anything, anywhere at any time versus the European 
: focus: we want to have the choice - with an open end - to maintain
: own surveillance.  The US demand would have caused an immediate
: ability to tap into what the European intelligence community believes to
: be its sole and exclusive territory. In fact the Europeans were not at all
: pleased with the US view points of controlling ALL crypto. Germany and
: France vigorously refused to work with the US on this issue.
:
: The Clipper initiative (at the time not readily developed) was completely
: banned, except for the Australian and UK views that felt some obligation
: from the 1947 UKUSA treaty (dealing with interchange of intelligence).
: 
: With a vast majority the US was cornered completely, and had to accept
: the international views. And actually adopted those as well.  EFF, EPIC and
: other US organizations were delighted to see the formal US views barred,
: but expressed their concern on the development of alternate political
: pressure that would cause the same effects.
:
: As time went by that was indeed what the US did, and up to now with minor
: success.
: 
: Bertil Fortrie
: Internet Security Review
: ==




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 23:54:31 +0800
To: Declan McCullagh 
Subject: Re: What we are Fighting
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 6:53 AM -0700 9/7/98, Declan McCullagh wrote:

>There is, offically, a proposal on the table to limit speech within the
>U.S. by restricting sale, manufacture, distribution, import of non-GAK'd
>crypto. A House committee approved that one year ago.
>

I'd forgotten about that little one. Of course, it has not gone anywhere
(no Senate version or committee markup, right?), so I'm not yet ready to
say there's official action on its way. And, fortunately, the session is
over but for the shouting about Clinton and his cigars.

--Tim May

"The tree of liberty must be watered periodically with the blood of
tyrants...."
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist              | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Support Online Staff" 
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 05:36:43 +0800
To: 
Subject: Microsoft Office Support News Watch - September 7, 1998
Message-ID: <199809072128.OAA10646@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Microsoft Office Support News Watch
===================================

As a subscriber to the Microsoft Office Support News Watch, you receive e-
mail twice each month that highlights some of the new articles recently
published on Support Online, Microsoft's award-winning technical support
web site.

Contents
--------

 - Office Update Web Site
 - Outlook Security Patch
 - Office 2000
 - Kernel32.dll Error During Office Setup
 - "No License" Error When Running Microsoft Access 97 on Windows 98
 - Get Support Online Articles by E-mail

Office Update Web Site
======================

The Office Update Web site was recently modified to make it easier for you
to find up-to-date information about Office Products. Office Update is a
free online extension of Microsoft Office that is accessible to all users.
You can access the site from the link placed prominently at the top of each
of the Office products by clicking Help, selecting Microsoft On The Web,
and then clicking Free Stuff. You can find the Office Update site at the
following address on the World Wide Web:

   http://officeupdate.microsoft.com/

The Office Update site provides the latest Office service releases,
security patches, product add-ins, new Office assistants, clip art,
templates, and custom business solutions.

Outlook Security Patch
======================

Now available is an updated security patch for Microsoft Outlook 98 that
protects you against a potential problem involving file attachments with
extremely long names as well as a variant found during continued testing.
The new location of this patch is on the Office Update site at:

   http://officeupdate.microsoft.com/updates/updOutlook.htm

Office 2000
===========

For information about features in the next version of Office, go to the
Microsoft Office 2000 site on the Internet:

   http://www.microsoft.com/office/2000/

Kernel32.dll Error During Office Setup
======================================

When installing Office 97 on Microsoft Windows 98, you may receive the
following error message:

   This program has performed an illegal operation and will be shut down.
   If the problem persists, contact the program vendor.

If you click Details, you receive an error message similar to the
following:

   ACMSETUP caused an invalid page fault in module KERNEL32.DLL at
   0177:bff7be97.

This problem may occur when you have your CD-ROM drive configured to use
Direct Memory Access (DMA) in the Windows 98 Device Manager.

For information about this problem see Knowledge Base article Q190630.
This article is available on the Web at the following address:

   http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q190/6/30.asp

"No License" Error When Running Microsoft Access 97 on Windows 98
=================================================================

When you start Microsoft Access 97, you may receive the following error
message

   Microsoft Access can't start because there is no license for it on
   this machine.

even though you have a fully licensed copy of Microsoft Access. You may
receive this error message on a Windows 98 computer if the following
conditions are met:

 - You have installed Microsoft Publisher
 - You have installed Access from the Office 97 Professional CD

Certain fonts that are installed by Microsoft Publisher can result in the
incorrect registration of Microsoft Access 97, but only when Access is
being installed from the Office 97 Professional CD. You can correct the
registration error by using either of the following methods:

 - Rename one of the problem fonts, and then reinstall Microsoft Access
   from the Setup Maintenance Mode.

    -or-

 - Download a tool that Microsoft has on its Downloads Web site that
   corrects this problem.

Renaming the Font and Reinstalling Microsoft Access
---------------------------------------------------

Reinstalling Microsoft Access 97 using the Setup Maintenance Mode does not
require you to uninstall Microsoft Access first; it simply returns the
computer to the install state that it was in the last time Setup was run.
Follow these steps to correct the registry error:

 1. On the Start menu, point to Find, and then click Files Or Folders.

 2. In the Named box, type "hatten.ttf" (without the quotation marks).

 3. In the Look In box, type "C:\Windows\Fonts" (without the quotation
    marks) or the path to the Fonts folder on your computer.

 4. Click the Find Now button to start the search.

 5. Under Name, right-click the hatten.ttf file, and click Rename on
    the menu that appears.

 6. Change the name of the file to "hatten.xxx" (without the quotation
    marks).

 7. Minimize (but do not close) the Find dialog box.

 8. On the Start Menu, point to Settings, and click Control Panel.

 9. In Control Panel, double-click Add/Remove Programs.

10. In the Add/Remove Program Properties dialog box, select the
    Install/Uninstall tab and select Microsoft Office 97, Professional
    Edition from the program list.

11. Click the Add/Remove button to run Office Setup in Maintenance
    Mode.

12. In the Microsoft Office 97 Setup dialog box, click Reinstall.

13. Once the reinstallation is finished, click the Find dialog box on
    the Windows taskbar to maximize it.

14. Under Name, right-click the hatten.xxx file, and click Rename on
    the menu that appears.

15. Change the name of the file to "hatten.ttf" (without the quotation
    marks).

Microsoft Access should now be properly registered.

Using the Downloadable Tool
---------------------------

The AcLicn97.exe file contains a tool that corrects the problem discussed
in this article so that you can run Microsoft Access 97 successfully. You
can download AcLicn97.exe from the following Microsoft Web site:

   http://support.microsoft.com/download/support/mslfiles/ACLICN97.EXE

AcLicn97.exe is a self-expanding archive. Run the file to expand its
contents, and then run the expanded file, AcLicens.exe, to properly
register Microsoft Access 97 on your computer. Please note that this
download will only work if the conditions stated above are met. For
solutions to other causes of the same error message, please see the
following article in the Microsoft Knowledge Base:

   ARTICLE-ID: Q141373
   TITLE     : ACC: "There is no license" Error Starting Microsoft
   Access

   http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q141/3/73.asp

Get Support Online Articles by E-mail
=====================================

You can receive these articles (and others) in e-mail by sending a message
to mshelp@microsoft.com. In the Subject line of your message, enter the
Article-ID number (Qnnnnnn). For example to receive Q162721, your Subject
line should resemble the following example:

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The MSHelp Index is updated monthly. For more information about MSHelp, see
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Sincerely,
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 00:14:10 +0800
To: Mok-Kong Shen 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 3:01 AM -0700 9/7/98, Mok-Kong Shen wrote:
>Robert Hettinga wrote:
>>
>> Sameer Parekh, the president of the Web server company C2 Net, said:
>> "I think it's essential if you want business that you're doing your
>> development overseas. It's pretty clear to anyone internationally that
>> anything exportable [from the United States] is a joke."
>
>Let's wait and see whether AES will be genuinely exportable.
>

If it's as strong as it is supposed to be, e.g, much stronger than 3DES for
example, then OF COURSE it will not be exportable.

However, the neat thing about such a standard, with the algorithm carefully
described and published, is that many can implement it. There should be no
particular need to "export" implmentations out of the U.S. when so many
European and Asian and Carribbean folks will be implementing it and
embedding it in other applications.

(I don't follow AES stuff, so I may be missing some details, such as how
licensing (barf) will work. Maybe, like IDEA, implementors will be supposed
to seek a license. If so, then maybe implementors will have to go to
whomever controls the process, such as NIST, and request a license.
Probably NIST will deny a license to Hezbollah Cryptography Company. And so
it goes.)

I can't get too excited about AES. Plenty of ciphers out there. Which
cipher handles the high-speed stuff inside an app like PGP is not of great
concern to me. Especially since the speed of ciphers is less important for
the kind of political messages which interest me.

(I'm not belittling work on AES. It's both important for various network
uses, and interesting in its own right. Just not to me.)

--Tim May

"The tree of liberty must be watered periodically with the blood of
tyrants...."
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist              | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 00:18:54 +0800
To: Ryan Lackey 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 8:41 AM -0700 9/7/98, Ryan Lackey wrote:

>The machine suffered either disk controller or HDD problems as I was
>logged into it.  It is located in Boston, MA.  I do not currently have
>a way of getting to the machine to repair it, and this will likely
>continue to be true, so until I can get one of the people I know at
>the site where the machine is located to fix it, the archives will be
>offline.  If the machine cannot be fixed, I will put the archive up
>elsewhere.  I believe hugh@toad.com copied the entire archive at some
>point, so that might be helpful.
>
>Sorry about this -- replicated servers are always a good idea.

Indeed, weren't you developing some kind of distributed eternity server? So
much for eternity, I guess.

Ryan, could you tell us what you are working on, and what has taken you out
of the country?

--Tim May

"The tree of liberty must be watered periodically with the blood of
tyrants...."
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist              | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 00:31:30 +0800
To: John Young 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 8:39 AM -0700 9/7/98, John Young wrote:
>It would be fitting for this list to be distinguished as
>the place where crypto-in-a-crime was first committed.
>
>What might that be? A match of the crime committed
>to prevent widespread strong crypto?
>
>Crypto-criminal anonymity in the national interest (governmental
>secrecy) fighting to prevent crypto-criminal anonymity in the
>public interest (private secrecy).
>
>This is not a troll, but query on what could be done to to tip the
>hand and identify those unnamed who are most fearful of strong
>cryptography, not their public rougers in the 3 divs of gov.

Well, there are just so many things that are now called "crimes" in these
Beknighted States, that it's really a matter of what the Authorities decide
to prosecute.

For example, do they prosecute J. Random Cypherpunk for his support of the
freedom fighters of Hezbollah, which is on the State Department's list of
"terror"-supporting organizations? (Meaning that citizen-unit sheeple are
breaking the law if they provide any financial or technical support to
Hezbollah.) If they prosecute J. Random Cypherpunk, and can show he used
PGP to send messages to the freedom fighters, or even supplied them with a
copy of PGP....

Or how about the religious organization known as Aum Shinretsu. Apparently
I am breaking a U.S. law by tithing to the Aum religion, as it is also on
this list.

And then there are those RICO laws. Arranging cutout organizations to let
foreign nationals consult and write code is probably a violation of various
laws.

I can think of lots of "crimes" in the eyes of the burrowcrats that many of
us are committing constantly.

However, "crypto in a crime" has not become law yet. And if we can keep
those pesky "civil rights" lobbyists in D.C. neutralized, maybe it never
will be. With any luck, these curriers of favor are inside the fallout
pattern from Bin Laden's nuke.

--Tim May




"The tree of liberty must be watered periodically with the blood of
tyrants...."
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist              | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 21:47:53 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: What we are Fighting
Message-ID: <199809071345.JAA02136@panix7.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



[Cryptography Manifesto excerpts used for replies]

   >   From: John Young 
   >
   >   Tim asks:
   >
   >   >Freeh and Company continue to mumble about "meeting
   >   >the legitmate needs of law enforcement." What can they 
   >   >be speaking of?
   >   ...
   >   >Obviously his side is contemplating domestic crypto restrictions.
   >
   >   Threat of terrorism will be the impetus for applying national security 
   >   restrictions domestically, for relaxing cold war limitations on spying
   >   on Americans, for dissolving barriers between law enforcement
   >   and military/intelligence agencies.

Funny how the NSA's ECHELON monitoring machine keeps growing endlessly...

:   The Washington Post Magazine, June 23 1996
:   "Government surveillance, terrorism and the U.S. Constitution"
:   from Main Justice, by Jim McGee and Brian Duffy, 1996, ISBN 0-684-81135-9
:           
:   The FBI is growing in tandem with the NSA. With the help of the National
:   Security Agency, the U.S. eavesdropping bureaucracy that spans the globe,
:   the FBI operates a super-secret facility in New York code-named Megahut
:   that is linked to the other FBI listening posts.
: 
:   After the OKC bombing, Janet Reno and Louis Freeh asked Congress to raise
:   to 3,000 the number of FBI agents working counter-intelligence and counter-
:   terrorism.
: 
:   With the new legislation, the funding for just the FBI's counter-intelli-
:   gence/terror goals is now ONE BILLION DOLLARS a year, and their activities
:   will rise to a LEVEL HIGHER THAN AT ANY TIME DURING THE COLD WAR.  

1984 means a constant State of War.


Here's a new war: "cyberwar".

#  "Head of CIA Plans Center To Protect Federal Computers"
#  By Tim Weiner, The New York Times, 6/26/96
# 
#  John Deutch, Director of the CIA, is building a "cyberwar" center in the NSA.
#   
#  Mr. Deutch said cyberwar could become a 21st-century national security threat
#  second only to nuclear, biological and chemical weapons.
# 
#  "The electron," Mr. Deutch warned, "is the ultimate precision-guided weapon."

Haven't I heard bad dialogue like this on Mystery Science Theater 3000?

----

   >   From: John Young 
   >
   >   Technical means for access to encrypted data will probably
   >   come first in communications, then to stored material. There
   >   will be an agreement for increased CALEA wiretap funding, which 
   >   is what the two cellular and wired suits against the FBI intend,
   >   (paralleling what the hardware and software industries want from
   >   federal buyers of security products).
   >
   >   This will provide the infrastructural regime for the gov to monitor 
   >   and store domestic traffic as NSA does for the global, using the 
   >   same technology (NSA may provide service to domestic
   >   LEA as it now does for other gov customers for intel).

    
Question:  How can the FBI use computers to monitor thousands and thousands
           and thousands and thousands of phone calls simultaneously, as they
           said they would do with CALEA, when we Americans speak so many 
           different accents and languages?
    
Answer:    Thirty years of fine tuning by the NSA, y'all.

----

   >   From: John Young 
   >
   >   As noted here, the features will appear first as optional, in response
   >   to demand from commerce, from parents, from responsible
   >   institutions, to meet public calls for protection, for privacy, for
   >   combating threats to the American people. 

*   "Project L.U.C.I.D.", by Texe Marrs, 1996, ISBN 1-884302-02-5
*
*   These changes are necessary, we are reminded each day by our mind control
*   jailers in the media, to solve the immigration crises, to institute gun
*   control, to counter domestic terrorism, to fight pornography, to find
*   deadbeat dads who don't pay child support, to "Save Mother Earth",
*   to war against drug kingpins, to stop crime in the streets, to watch and
*   monitor the militias, to put an end to hate crimes and bigotry,
*   to extend universal healthcare benefits, to guarantee welfare reform, to
*   improve public education...the list of crises and problems to be fixed
*   seems to be never-ending.
*
*   Implement National ID Cards, they promise, and a bright, secure future
*   can be ours. [snip]

----

   >   From: John Young 
   >
   >   Like wiretap law, use of the features for preventative snooping will 
   >   initially require a court order, as provided in several of the crypto 
   >   legislative proposals.
   >
   >   Like the wiretap orders, gradually there will be no secret court refusals 
   >   for requests to use the technology in the national interest.
   >
   >   Personal privacy will evaporate almost unnoticeably...

    *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *
    *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *
  * * *  * * *  * * *  * * *  * * *  * * *  * * *  * * *  * * *  * * *
   ***    ***    ***    ***    ***    ***    ***    ***    ***    ***
    *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *
: The Puzzle Palace
:     Inside the National Security Agency,
:     America's most secret intelligence organization
: Author James Bamford, 1983 revision, ISBN 0-14-00.6748-5

P468-469: Within the United States, FISA still leaves the NSA free to pull
into its massive vacuum cleaner every telephone call and message entering,
leaving, OR TRANSITING the country.

By carefully inserting the words "by the National Security Agency" into the
FISA legislation, the NSA has skillfully excluded from the coverage of the
FISA statute as well as the surveillance court all interceptions received
from the British GCHQ or any other non-NSA source.

Thus it is possible for GCHQ to monitor the necessary domestic circuits  
and pass them on to the NSA through the UKUSA Agreement, giving them
impunity to target and watch-list Americans.

P475-477: Like an ever-widening sinkhole, the NSA's surveillance technology
will continue to expand, quietly pulling in more and more communications and
gradually eliminating more and more privacy.

If there are defenses to such technotyranny, it would appear, at least from
past experience, that they will not come from Congress.

Rather, they will most likely come from academe and industry in the form of
secure cryptographic applications to private and commercial telecommunications
equipment.

The same technology that is used against free speech can be used
to protect it, for without protection the future may be grim.


Senator Frank Church, chairman of the Senate Intelligence committee, referring
to the NSA's SIGINT technology, ciirca 1975:

    At the same time, that capability at any time could be turned around
    on the American people and no American would have any privacy left,
    such is the capability to monitor everything: telephone conversations,
    telegrams, it doesn't matter.

    There would be no place to hide.

    If the government ever became a tyranny, if a dictator ever took charge
    in this country, the technological capacity that the intelligence commun-
    ity has given the government could enable it to impose total tyranny,
    and there would be no way to fight back, because the most careful effort
    to combine together in resistance to the government, no matter how
    privately it was done, is within the reach of the government to know.

    Such is the capability of this technology...

    I don't want to see this country ever go across the bridge.

    I know the capacity that is there to make tyranny total in America, and
    we must see to it that this agency and all agencies that possess this
    technology operate within the law and under proper supervision, so that
    we never cross over that abyss.

    That is the abyss from which there is no return.

  
    *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *
   ***    ***    ***    ***    ***    ***    ***    ***    ***    ***
  * * *  * * *  * * *  * * *  * * *  * * *  * * *  * * *  * * *  * * *
    *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *
    *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *      *

*   "Data Show Federal Agents Seldom Employ Surveillance Authority Against
*   Terrorists", By Stephen Labaton, The New York Times, 5/1/95
*
*   An item in President Clinton's five-year, $1.5 billion plan to combat
*   terrorist acts:
*
*      o It would ease restrictions on the use in American courts of
*        information from surveillance conducted by foreign governments.


#   "Moynihan Says U.S. Killed His Anti-Spy Measure"
#   By Irvin Molotsky, The New York Times, September 11, 1985
#
#   Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan charged that the CIA and State Department
#   had killed a measure he had introduced aimed at protecting American
#   citizens from having their telephone conversations intercepted by foreign
#   agents in this country.
#
#   The Senator's bill would have made telephone call interception by foreign
#   agents illegal and would have provided for their expulsion.
#
#   The Chairman of the Select Committee on Intelligence opposed the measure
#   as unnecessary and could lead to disclosing "sensitive intelligence
#   sources."

British wiretappers at the helm of the NSA's domestic spy-fest.

---guy

   http://www.newsguy.com/~mayday/crypto/crypto0.html




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 21:53:29 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: KRAP is at it in the IETF
Message-ID: <199809071350.JAA02165@panix7.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



A reply already.
---guy

   >   From rgm@icsa.net Mon Sep  7 09:32:47 1998
   >   Received: from homebase.htt-consult.com (homebase.htt-consult.com [208.235.169.130])
   >   	by mail2.panix.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/PanixM1.3) with ESMTP id JAA04870
   >   	for ; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 09:32:45 -0400 (EDT)
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   >             for ; Mon, 7 Sep 1998 09:32:50 -0400
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   >   X-Sender: rgm-icsa@homebase.htt-consult.com
   >   X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32)
   >   Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 09:21:46 -0400
   >   To: Information Security 
   >   From: Robert Moskowitz 
   >   Subject: Re: KRAP is at it in the IETF
   >   In-Reply-To: <199809071253.IAA01912@panix7.panix.com>
   >   Mime-Version: 1.0
   >   Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
   >   Status: R
   >
   >   Note that this is an individual submission.  It is not the product of any
   >   IETF workgroup.  Anyone can submit an Internet Draft.  The IETF maintains
   >   an open process.  However, the IESG has to approve all IDs before they can
   >   become RFCs.  There will be a period of last call on this draft on the IETF
   >   list where appropriate comments will be taken.
   >   >
   >   Robert Moskowitz
   >   International Computer Security Association
   >   	(248) 968-9809
   >   Fax:	(248) 968-2824
   >   rgm@icsa.net
   >




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 22:00:12 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: any relation?
Message-ID: <199809071357.JAA02175@panix7.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



   >   From: Steve Mynott 
   >   X-Echelon: no-archive
Heh.
   >
   >   http://www.kiva.net/~tmay/

No, Cypherpunk Tim May's picture was shown in Wired...

But now he's gonna hafta get a gun at least that big,
or suffer major penis envy.

---guy ;-)




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mok-Kong Shen 
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 17:04:09 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: IP: Encryption Expert Says U.S. Laws Led to Renouncing of   Citizenship
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <35F3A0CC.37385749@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Robert Hettinga wrote:
> 
> Sameer Parekh, the president of the Web server company C2 Net, said:
> "I think it's essential if you want business that you're doing your
> development overseas. It's pretty clear to anyone internationally that
> anything exportable [from the United States] is a joke."

Let's wait and see whether AES will be genuinely exportable.

M. K. Shen




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 23:49:23 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Cypherpunks HyperArchive (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809071608.LAA03505@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Subject: Re: Cypherpunks HyperArchive
> From: Ryan Lackey 
> Date: 07 Sep 1998 11:41:54 -0400

> The machine suffered either disk controller or HDD problems as I was
> logged into it.  It is located in Boston, MA.  I do not currently have

The L0pht folks are there and Wel Pond used to be a subscriber. Perhaps you
could contact them and they could provide the support?


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mok-Kong Shen 
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 17:25:46 +0800
To: jkthomson 
Subject: Re: request for [cdn] export laws.
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980905160024.0070f7c0@dowco.com>
Message-ID: <35F3A435.4C8C4D26@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



jkthomson wrote:

> 
> I have been looking for the export restrictions (if any) that regulate
> canadian encryption products.  I have tried searching the net for a little

Perhaps the URL
  
     http://www.efc.ca/

is of some interest to you.

M. K. Shen




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 23:47:28 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: What we are Fighting
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199809071546.LAA21825@camel7.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



It would be fitting for this list to be distinguished as
the place where crypto-in-a-crime was first committed.

What might that be? A match of the crime committed
to prevent widespread strong crypto?

Crypto-criminal anonymity in the national interest (governmental
secrecy) fighting to prevent crypto-criminal anonymity in the 
public interest (private secrecy).

This is not a troll, but query on what could be done to to tip the 
hand and identify those unnamed who are most fearful of strong 
cryptography, not their public rougers in the 3 divs of gov.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ryan Lackey 
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 23:43:42 +0800
To: Matthew James Gering 
Subject: Re: Cypherpunks HyperArchive
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> There is another archive at http://sof.mit.edu/cypherpunks, ironically
> the machine that hosts it is not up at the moment

The machine suffered either disk controller or HDD problems as I was
logged into it.  It is located in Boston, MA.  I do not currently have
a way of getting to the machine to repair it, and this will likely
continue to be true, so until I can get one of the people I know at
the site where the machine is located to fix it, the archives will be
offline.  If the machine cannot be fixed, I will put the archive up
elsewhere.  I believe hugh@toad.com copied the entire archive at some
point, so that might be helpful.

Sorry about this -- replicated servers are always a good idea.
-- 
Ryan Lackey
rdl@mit.edu
http://sof.mit.edu/rdl/		




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 00:26:50 +0800
To: users@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (SSZ User Mail List)
Subject: Seed to clone himself, one way or another [CNN]
Message-ID: <199809071643.LAA03831@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Hi,

It seems that scientist in general may soon be forced to roam from country
to country to practice their work.

Shades of Neuromancer. I am more and more convinced that Gibson's book, and
it's social commentary, is right on the mark.

Forwarded message:

> X-within-URL: http://www.cnn.com/TECH/science/9809/07/clone.seed.ap/

>           CHICAGO PHYSICIST SAYS HE'LL CLONE HIMSELF WITH WIFE'S HELP
>                                        
>    Dr. Richard Seed Richard Seed   September 7, 1998
>    Web posted at: 3:50 a.m. EDT (0750 GMT)
>    
>    BOSTON (AP) -- A physicist with three Harvard degrees but no medical
>    license said he is ready to begin the first step toward immortality:
>    he will clone himself.

[text deleted]

>    Seed said his wife, Gloria, has agreed to carry an embryo that would
>    be created by combining the nucleus of one of his cells with a donor
>    egg, the newspaper said.

[text deleted]

>    The Chicago scientist has three Harvard degrees, including a Ph.D.,
>    but no medical degree, no money and no institutional backing. He has
>    vowed to produce a pregnancy with a human clone within 2 1/2 years.

[text deleted]

>    Two states, California and Michigan, have outlawed human cloning and
>    dozens of other states are considering bans.
>    
>    A five-year moratorium on cloning is apparently being observed by
>    mainstream scientists, but Congress has failed to act on legislation
>    to outlaw the procedure.
>    
>    Seed has said that if Congress bans cloning, he will move his
>    operation to Tijuana, Mexico.

[text deleted]


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ryan Lackey 
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 23:50:27 +0800
To: Tim May 
Subject: Re: Archives? What archives?
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Tim May  writes:

> 
> At 1:44 AM -0700 9/4/98, Sparkes, Ian, ZFRD AC wrote:
> 
> >---- Facetious comment begin -----
> >At least now we know why people aren't following Tim's
> >advice to 'check the archives' before putting their feet in
> >their mouths.
> >---- Facetious comment end -----
> 
> Try http://www.inet-one.com/cypherpunks/
> 
> If the archives at some sites are going down, this could be for various
> reasons.
> 
> Being an assembly of mostly-anarchist-leaning folks, with no leadership, no
> organization, no hierarchy, and no procedures, there are no officially
> maintained archives.
> 
> What we have are what people choose to put up.
> 
> Someone was talking in the last half year about burning a CD-ROM with a big
> chunk of the archives on it. I haven't heard if this ever happened and if
> it was made available for sale. (It seems that about every year someone
> launches a project to generate such a CD-ROM, but I haven't seen the
> followthrough.)
> 
> --Tim May

I had an archive on sof.mit.edu, but shortly after I left Boston, MA, US
where the machine is located, the HDD on the machine (or the controller)
died, and I'm still trying to get one of my former housemates to repair it.

I'm currently in the wrong country to fix the drive, and don't expect to
be back.

I prepared the CD-ROMs for sale (I had a CD-R on the machine), and posted
several times offering to sell them, but no one ever actually sent me
the money.  Actually, a small number of people did, and I sold them, but
I don't remember who they were.

I also don't have particularly good backups of that machine.  I think
someone mirrored it at toad.com before it died, so they're probably not
lost forever.  I don't have a machine with free bandwidth from which
to host it, though, until sof.mit.edu is back on the net.  I may be
sending the HDD out to a drive recovery company anyway for the other
data on the drive.

This was an amateurish hobby server of mine, and not a production-grade
service, so people shouldn't complain too much that I didn't invest the
money in quality replication.
-- 
Ryan Lackey
rdl@mit.edu
http://sof.mit.edu/rdl/		




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 00:52:58 +0800
To: users@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (SSZ User Mail List)
Subject: Government Regulation & Scienctific Research
Message-ID: <199809071711.MAA04033@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Hi,

Because of the changes in national governments and their increasing desire
to regulate their citizenry and their economies according to flawed economic
and social dogma we will see the following:

- primary research will still occur in the 1st world countries where the
  interest, money, and infrastructure can support it.

- practical applications of this technology will be developed in the 3rd
  world countries where the destabalizing impact of technology won't hurt
  as much because the central government infrastructure doesn't exist.

- it will become harder and harder for individuals with intellectual
  capital to express their rights within these 1st world enclaves. In
  particular, leaving the country. Perhaps it will get so bad that we'll
  see a return to the Soviet style of sports competition (ie KGB stoolies
  following all the athletes around).

What will be the end result?

We'll see bastions of 1st world culture surrounded by a sea of balkan
areas that are 'governed' by economic and cultural ethos alone.

As this process proceeds it will erode the stability of the 1st world
countries and cause their break-up into small independant balkans.

The results of this will be:

- there will be a slow down in basic research in about 50 years because
  there won't be any large infrastructures that can support basic
  research. Hopefuly the balkans will find a way to cooperate in an
  economic and technological manner. If so the roll of technology will
  resume, albeit potentialy at a slower rate.

- small balkans will band together for periods of time to explore
  research and develop the base understanding.

it'll end up being sort of like a MCC or Sematech at the political level.

One aspect that does worry me is that as technology speads the cultures
around the world homogenize. This could have a negative impact on the
balkanization because the motive to go from here to there won't be relevant
because there will be here. It may turn out that xenophobic cultures like
the Talibans and Chinese may actualy help in the long run because of their
unwillingness to compromise their world views.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 01:48:09 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: What we are Fighting
In-Reply-To: <199809071546.LAA21825@camel7.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <199809071745.NAA09547@camel7.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



True that governmental dietary laws are immensely flexible 
when the dogs are hungry.

Given that moral and financial and political betrayal and treachery 
do not qualify for grave natsec threat, and only those acts which 
aim at snatching the very best technology for political control, it's 
the NBC toys that attract most of the serious searchers for terrorists 
under the global bed.

For crypto-in-a-crime that might mean sending here an encrypted
message with an explanatory note that it contains, say:

How to tell the difference between decoys and the real tranporters 
of nuclear components among the national labs and/or to Pantex 
for disassembly.

Or where the recovered Pu and triggers are stored in the TX 
panhandle, helpfully describing what's fake and what's not,
what the security plan is, not disinfo, what tools are needed to 
pick up emanations, how to weed the spoofs.

Or what and where BW or CW armaments are being refreshed,
repaired, deactivated, or invented in top secrecy just in case
some rogue violates a treaty, what tools are needed to sniff 
precursors, how to weed the spoofs, and how to avoid seeded 
soil in your backyard.

Or where key targeters of foreign terrorists live, their childrens' 
school, their favorite places to get away from the terrible
responsibility for USG assassination politics.

Or, could one encrypt a message to oneself claiming to
contain such information, post it here, see who wants
your heart and mind.

Or, create a PK pair, encrypt such a message, then post it,
both keys and PW here. Would the pacesetter be traced?

Would anyone notice, though? Would waiting for the disaster
be better strategy?

Thousands of threats pour in, State says, Secret Service says,
IC says, way too many to fully investigate, until one proves 
blessedly true, ah yes, the likely suspect, then marshal the 
targeters to cruise congress whispering look at this, to OK 
cleansweeping CDR, according to immensely flexible menus
long set.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: your name 
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 20:05:28 +0800
To: fight-censorship@vorlon.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Child-Molesting Forger's Chilling Confession!!!1!
Message-ID: <199809071159.NAA05822@frnext1a.fr.bosch.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: application/x-www-form-urlencoded

application/www-form-urlencoded


From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Steve Mynott 
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 21:07:13 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: any relation?
Message-ID: <19980907140142.A6010@tightrope.demon.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



http://www.kiva.net/~tmay/

-- 
pgp 1024/D9C69DF9 1997/10/14 steve mynott 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 04:01:27 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Archives? What archives?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 11:49 AM -0400 on 9/7/98, Ryan Lackey wrote:


> I'm currently in the wrong country to fix the drive, and don't expect to
> be back.

Here comes another American-African...

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 05:34:09 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: clinton digital signing
Message-ID: <199809072131.OAA29302@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




------- Forwarded Message

Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 01:04:12 +1200
To: snetnews@world.std.com
From: "ScanThisNews"  (by way of
 jeremy.compton@stonebow.otago.ac.nz (Jeremy Compton))
Subject: SNET: [FP] FW: Clinton "Useless" w/o Pen: Uses SmartCard Encrption


- ->  SNETNEWS  Mailing List

[Forwarded message]

Clinton "Useless" w/o Pen: Uses SmartCard Encrption

Source:  Fox News - AP
http://www.foxnews.com/js_index.sml?content=/news/wires2/

WHITE HOUSE NOTEBOOK: Clinton feels 'utterly useless' without his pen
 6.33 p.m. ET (2233 GMT) September 4, 1998

 By Shawn Pogatchnik, Associated Press

 DUBLIN, Ireland (AP) - What's the point of being president if you can't
use your pen?

 Seated at matching laptops, President Clinton and Irish Prime Minister
Bertie Ahern used "smart cards,'' personalized codes and digital readers
Friday to electronically affix their signatures to an electronic commerce
agreement.

 Clinton joked that he missed the old-fashioned way of approving deals.

 "Do you have any idea how much time I spend every day signing my name? I'm
going to feel utterly useless if I can't do that anymore,'' he said.

 He also offered this insight on being president: "You know, by the time
you become the leader of a country, someone else makes all the decisions.
You just sign your name.

 "You may find you can get away with virtual presidents, virtual prime
ministers, virtual everything. You know, just stick a little card in and
get the predictable response.''



                  (c) 1998 Associated Press. All rights reserved.
- -----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
- -----------------------

- -----Original Message-----
From: believer@telepath.com [mailto:believer@telepath.com]
Sent: Saturday, September 05, 1998 6:09 PM
To: believer@telepath.com
Subject: Clinton "Useless" w/o Pen: Uses SmartCard Encrption



- -> Send "subscribe   snetnews " to majordomo@world.std.com
- ->  Posted by: "ScanThisNews"  (by way of jeremy.compton@stonebow.otago.ac.nz (Jeremy Compton))


------- End of Forwarded Message




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 05:43:48 +0800
To: Tim May 
Subject: Re: What we are Fighting
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



We even make an illusion to Monica's Cigar in a story in this week's Time.
A Microsoft story I was working on died at the last moment, unfortunately.

As for the crypto bills, there is no comparable Senate bill. Certainly
this is not for lack of sponsors: Kyl and Feinstein would be glad to
introduce it, and Kyl chairs a relevant subcommittee. But they wanted to
see how far they'd get with McCain's bill, and now it's too late to do
much, as Tim said. 

-Declan


On Mon, 7 Sep 1998, Tim May wrote:

> At 6:53 AM -0700 9/7/98, Declan McCullagh wrote:
> 
> >There is, offically, a proposal on the table to limit speech within the
> >U.S. by restricting sale, manufacture, distribution, import of non-GAK'd
> >crypto. A House committee approved that one year ago.
> >
> 
> I'd forgotten about that little one. Of course, it has not gone anywhere
> (no Senate version or committee markup, right?), so I'm not yet ready to
> say there's official action on its way. And, fortunately, the session is
> over but for the shouting about Clinton and his cigars.
> 
> --Tim May
> 
> "The tree of liberty must be watered periodically with the blood of
> tyrants...."
> ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
> Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
> ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
> W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
> Licensed Ontologist              | black markets, collapse of governments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 02:58:55 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Tesla's Secrets
Message-ID: <199809071857.OAA27475@camel7.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



DoD's latest standard for protection against electromagnetic
effects, MIL-STD-464, "Electromagnetic Environmental Effects
-- Requirements for Systems," provides a bare 17 pages of dry
prescriptions for the official standard, then 90 astonishing pages 
of ways the standard is to be applied in addressing unexpected
EM misfortunes, like ordance spontaneously exploding, planes
crashing, ships out of control, radar meltdown, personnel fried, 
and so on.

   http://jya.com/mil-std-464.htm  (346K plus images)

What comes out of this critical "anecdotal" material, not yet 
subject to precise standardization, is what Tesla learned early 
this century: the dreadful power of accumulated, boosted EM 
caused by unexpected interaction of human electronic inventions 
and natural EM forces. Such as some speculate brought down 
TWA 800.

What also comes out is that each unit of every major weapons 
system, theirs and ours (and civilian devices) can be identified 
by its unique EM  "fingerprint" -- nuclear sub, B1B, F117, AF One, 
your family Sports-ute, your chattering computer, cellphone and 
pager. As if anyone except the NSA can siphon and sort through 
them all, the compromising emanations are Out There awaiting
receivers of secret messages unintentionally sent.

A loud and clear message is that electronification of culture is
causing a build-up of powerful latent lightning looking for a ground
to blast, a sub to sink, a bomber to shatter. Be prepared for a 
technological attack, to be blamed on terrorists, but really caused 
by the expected EM effects Tesla warned about.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 05:57:24 +0800
To: Ryan Lackey 
Subject: Re: Cypherpunks HyperArchive
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I have ~100 MB from 4/97 to present archived in mbox form. I can FTP it or
make it available to anyone who might need it to restore the archive.

-Declan


On 7 Sep 1998, Ryan Lackey wrote:

> > There is another archive at http://sof.mit.edu/cypherpunks, ironically
> > the machine that hosts it is not up at the moment
> 
> The machine suffered either disk controller or HDD problems as I was
> logged into it.  It is located in Boston, MA.  I do not currently have
> a way of getting to the machine to repair it, and this will likely
> continue to be true, so until I can get one of the people I know at
> the site where the machine is located to fix it, the archives will be
> offline.  If the machine cannot be fixed, I will put the archive up
> elsewhere.  I believe hugh@toad.com copied the entire archive at some
> point, so that might be helpful.
> 
> Sorry about this -- replicated servers are always a good idea.
> -- 
> Ryan Lackey
> rdl@mit.edu
> http://sof.mit.edu/rdl/		
> 
> 
> 
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 05:57:50 +0800
To: John Young 
Subject: Re: What we are Fighting
In-Reply-To: <199809071546.LAA21825@camel7.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



If anyone does it with an eye to civil disobedience, let me know. But the
bill isn't law yet, and one might reasonably hope that it won't be.

The details vary. First it was crypto in the commission of a felony. Now
it's been narrowed considerably, though not all bills have the "better"
version.

-Declan

On Mon, 7 Sep 1998, John Young wrote:

> It would be fitting for this list to be distinguished as
> the place where crypto-in-a-crime was first committed.
> 
> What might that be? A match of the crime committed
> to prevent widespread strong crypto?
> 
> Crypto-criminal anonymity in the national interest (governmental
> secrecy) fighting to prevent crypto-criminal anonymity in the 
> public interest (private secrecy).
> 
> This is not a troll, but query on what could be done to to tip the 
> hand and identify those unnamed who are most fearful of strong 
> cryptography, not their public rougers in the 3 divs of gov.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 05:59:32 +0800
To: Tim May 
Subject: Re: What we are Fighting
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





On Mon, 7 Sep 1998, Tim May wrote:
> 
> However, "crypto in a crime" has not become law yet. And if we can keep
> those pesky "civil rights" lobbyists in D.C. neutralized, maybe it never
> will be. With any luck, these curriers of favor are inside the fallout
> pattern from Bin Laden's nuke.

Taking no position on "public interest" groups for this post, I'd still
note that such lobbyists don't really drive legislation in this area. It's
business groups, especially the Americans For Computer Privacy alliance,
that are drafting the bills and twisting the arms.

And their E-PRIVACY bill has crypto-in-a-crime in it.

-Declan





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jaggedrock@aol.com
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 08:02:39 +0800
To: fedcom@qth.net
Subject: [MilCom] MRE's, KCMO, VA Hospitals
Message-ID: <1e5a5e2b.35f42dd5@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Fellow radio enthusiasts of all the above nets,

In the past week I have learned of MRE stackpiling in a natural limestone cave
in the Kansas City Missouri area.  A 4 month government (don't know the
specific agency) contract it would appear, that will result in excess of
35,000,000 MRE's having been stored in the cave.  That's enough to feed
500,000 for 22 days roughly.  Further, I have learned that, apparently, 23 VA
hospitals that are closed (don't know where and don't know the names) are
being converted into food storage facilities with all of the equipment having
been removed and a special coating being applied to the interior surfaces to
enhance storage life.  Having said that, any fecom, milcom activity that would
shed light on this activity?  Any KCMO monitors hearing anything?  Anyone in
KCMO area that would like to try to find out more and advise the rest of us
accordingly?  

Thanks, jaggedrock@aol.com (Sangean ATS803A, Uniden 100XLT, Uniden Bearcat
895XLT Trunktracker, 48 foot roof mount dipole, roof mount Scantenna 25 feet
aloft, all low loss cable feeds - plus good human eyes and ears).  

---
Submissions milcom@qth.net




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ryan Lackey 
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 03:30:48 +0800
To: Tim May 
Subject: Re: Cypherpunks HyperArchive
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> Indeed, weren't you developing some kind of distributed eternity server? So
> much for eternity, I guess.

I believe Eternity depends upon a viable electronic cash system.  I put 
Eternity DDS on hold until one existed, and switched to working on HINDE,
a project with Ian Goldberg, to create a workable electronic cash system.
Creating a workable electronic cash system became...complicated (e.g. given
that I was recently at Bob Hettinga's electronic cash conference in Boston
giving a technical presentation, and it turns out the new CEO of DigiCash
was i the audience as "an interested investor"...perhaps it was impolitic
of me to continually bash DigiCash and David Chaum in a group of people
who I did not all definitely know to not be DigiCash employees...)  

Ian's gone on to do
Zero-Knowledge Systems, and I'm now working on what follows in this
email, so HINDE, the defined as the cypherpunkish protest against DigiCash, 
is probably quiescent.  Don't read anything into that, though.

For backing up the Cypherpunks Archives, I could have done just as well
by setting up two identical machines with rsync mirroring the drives.  I do
this kind of thing with real data, but didn't feel the 1gb of archive data
was high enough importance to mirror.  It appears the machine will be up
in a week or so, and if the drive is broken, I will send it off to a drive
recovery place for recovery, so the archives will be up, minus the most
recent month or two, in a month, at the outside.
> 
> Ryan, could you tell us what you are working on, and what has taken you out
> of the country?
The two answers are related, but distinct.

I am working on an interesting project with an interesting organization to
develop interesting applications for interesting clients.  I would provide
more detail here now if I could, and will in the future.

I have left the US for many reasons.  One, because I can, at least now.  I left
about a month ago.  I'm increasingly concerned about y2k issues, and my
situation in Boston (living about 0.25 miles from the exact center of Boston)
was not at all compatible with the kind of preparation I believe in.  I am
concerned not so much with the primary/prompt effects of y2k as I am
of societal panic and the government's response, perhaps proactive, to
that panic.

I left because the crypto policies of the US were getting increasingly
obnoxious, although I am a US citizen, and am not violating any EAR
restrictions.  (I'm actually probably obeying US law even more totally
here than I did when I lived in the US -- in Cambridge, MA, it is a 
crime to "interdigitate", that is, to hold hands with someone of the opposite
sex.  I think I was actually a potential felon before I left too, as I had an 
unpaid library fine at the Boston Public Library which I paid the day before
I left, and I believe having outstanding fines for greater than a year is
a felony in MA, a holdover from colonial times.)

I left because I wanted to be doing more, and plotting/scheming about what
I could be doing if I were not in the US less.  

I left because the US is just not the best place for me to live at the
current time, given that my primary goal right now is to accomplish the
"interesting projects".  

I left because in a time of uncertainty about the future, it is nice to
be far away from both soft targets and fundamentally self-serving
organizations with large amounts of power and no constraints upon
their use of such.

Given that I haven't actually broken any laws in coming here, and am being
scrupulous to avoid breaking any while I'm here, it wasn't really that
big a change.  I sold my stereo and long-term-loaned my larger computers
and monitors to one of my former housemates, but if things didn't work out, 
I could very easily move back to the US.  However, I can't imagine any
situations where this is a worthwhile choice.  I was thinking about the
things in the US I could conceivably miss -- some heavy industrial things,
the Grand Canyon, and MAE-East, and all of them can be substituted
with other things elsewhere.

So, leaving was somewhat supported by what I'm working on, but neither
really required the other -- they were independent choices which made
sense independently and made even more sense together.

I'd encourage anyone interested in leaving the US for a few years to 
seriously consider doing so ASAP, before 1 January 1999 if at all possible.
It takes some time to get set up in a new place, and you want this all
sorted out before any potential uncertainty becomes reality.

If I had the money and time to set myself up in the US with a reasonable
plot of land far away from any nearby targets or attackers, I would have
considered it more than I did, but I don't yet have investment income to
live from, so I needed a place where I could make a reasonable amount of
money, and Montana wasn't quite it.  For those who can, or who were lucky
enough to find themselves in that position before the y2k uncertainty
became a pressing issue, staying in place may easily make more sense.

Anguilla is actually a pretty reasonable choice as far as a place to
spend a few years away from the US -- 7 000 people, many with a strong
libertarian bent because they've always owned their own land, reasonable
comms, no taxes, accessible through a neighboring island's jet airport
but not really a place with a lot of through-traffic itself, etc.  If you
stockpile a bit of food and supplies, you're probably all set -- security
is nowhere near as big an issue here as it would be in most of the US.  I
was objectively evaluating my situation in Boston, and it would have required
more than a reinforced brigade to provide any reasonable security there.  The
cost of that buys an awful lot of canned/nitrogen-packed food...  I'm sure
there are other places in the world which are reasonable, but I've
only really looked at Anguilla, due to fc99, and I knew people here already.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Blanc" 
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 06:33:10 +0800
To: , 
Subject: RE: crypto-expatriatism
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <000501bddaaf$fd1844c0$5f8195cf@blanc>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Bob Hettinga wrote:

: Anyway, as the old "excrable" e$yllogism goes,
:
: Digital commerce is financial cryptography.
: Financial cryptography is strong cryptography.
: Therefore, if there's no strong cryptography, there's no
: digital commerce.
................................................................


It could justify becoming an exile, to develop the strong crypto needed for digital
commerce.
The conditions are right for it.

    ..
Blanc




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 04:01:35 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Cypherpunks HyperArchive
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 12:17 PM -0400 on 9/7/98, Tim May trolled:

> Ryan, could you tell us what you are working on, and what has taken you out
> of the country?

If I told you, I would have to kill you?

Seriously, Ryan and Ian were both moderators the Philodox Symposium on
Digital Bearer Transaction Settlement, held this July at the Harvard Club
in Boston. During the Symposium, they had several dinner conversations with
a couple of Symposium participants from a company which will remain
nameless, and they're currently putting together a digital bearer
transaction settlement system for those folks. Somewhere. :-).

Also there at the Symposium was Scott Loftesness, who's now the new
president of DigiCash, though the rest of us didn't know that at the time.
I was hoping someone from DigiCash would show up. I just didn't know
exactly how successful I was going to be in that until about two weeks ago.

Of course, a good time was had by all, including the likes of Dan Geer,
John Muller, some fairly serious financial people from Citicorp and VISA
and EGold, and several other interesting folks from various walks of
crypto, finance, and law. Had a great time, wish you were there, and all
that.

Yup, that financial technology evangelism stuff's just a waste of time.
Never gonna amount to much.

:-).

For my next trick  (besides some road-show DBTS seminars I'd like to do,
some speeches at upcoming electronic commerce/trading conferences in places
like Boston and London, the DBTS series I'm doing for Duncan Goldie-Scott's
online edition of the Financial Times, a white paper I'm doing for a credit
card company, some other fee-and-referral-commission consulting contracts,
and a few threatend projects from book editors :-)) is a
chinese-wall, peer-reviewed legal conference on digital bearer settlement,
hopefully next summer. I'm recruiting the program chair now, and have
several people you've probably heard of in mind for the program committee,
though ultimately that's the committee chairman's decision.

Having some fun, *now*, as those SNL wild and crazy guys used to say...

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 04:01:38 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 4.21:New Up-Scale Home Designs Reflect PrivacyConcerns
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Delivered-To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
From: "ama-gi ISPI" 
To: 
Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 4.21:New Up-Scale Home Designs Reflect Privacy Concerns
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 00:35:26 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Reply-To: "ama-gi ISPI" 

ISPI Clips 4.21: New Up-Scale Home Designs Reflect Privacy Concerns
News & Info from the Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI)
Monday September 7, 1998
ISPI4Privacy@ama-gi.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This From: The Washington Post, Saturday, September 5, 1998; Page E03
http://www.washingtonpost.com

The Neo-Fortress Home: Can the Concept Be Defended?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPlate/1998-09/05/070l-090598-idx.html


By
Roger K. Lewis


"A House for the New Millennium" was the headline on a recent Wall Street
Journal article about residential design trends. It should have read, "A
House for the New Millionaires," or perhaps, "A House for Fearful
Millionaires."

With a full-color, bird's-eye view illustration and a tabulation of what's
in and what's out, writer June Fletcher predicts that homes of the future
will "look more like medieval fortresses than futuristic bubbles." Picture
what Fletcher calls the Neo-Fortress Movement: towers and turrets; walled
yards; locked gates; and tall, narrow windows.

And most of the examples she cites have fortress-like price tags. At the
low end were subdivision houses in Arizona ranging from $382,000 to
$639,000. More typical were $950,000 homes in California; $1 million homes
in Kentucky and Pennsylvania; a 10,000-square-foot, $3.3 million spec home
in New Jersey; and a 14,000-square-foot, $8 million home in Florida.

"The neo-fortress style reflects end-of-the-century anxieties about privacy
and security," according to the article, along with diminishing home owner
interest in the "showy houses of the '80s, with their soaring ceilings,
open floor plans and huge windows that invite passersby to peer in and
check out the furniture."

On the article's "out" list: Palladian windows, Greek columns, grand
entries, two-story plans, big lawns, common areas, great rooms and computer
nooks in kitchens. On the "in" list: motor courts, walled courtyards,
single-story plans, numerous defined rooms, 10-foot ceilings, two home
offices and turrets.

Turrets, California architect Barry Berkus told the Journal, "connote
fortification and strength." Indeed, Berkus suggests that people are
attracted to turrets because they evoke lonely, romantic symbols such as
lighthouses and silos.

By the time I reached the end of the article, I was wondering what the
average American homeowner or home buyer might make of all this, not to
mention architects and builders who create houses that buck or ignore this
fortification trend. In 2001, would those of us whose homes sport large
windows, vaulted ceilings and lack medievally inspired towers feel
vulnerable and defenseless as well as out of fashion?

There is nothing intrinsically wrong, either aesthetically or functionally,
with most of the trendy features mentioned in the article. Walled-in
courtyards, towers and narrow windows have been around for thousands of
years. Constructing homes with discrete, functionally differentiated rooms
is an established tradition. In most cultures, visually separating spaces
for private, domestic use from public spaces is a standard and desirable
practice.

But these design elements and strategies for shaping a house should be
employed when they fit the circumstances and context pertaining to the
house, its location and site, its occupants and its occupants' budget.

Thus the courtyard house, which evolved as the dominant residential
building type in ancient Mediterranean, African, southern European and
Asian cultures, is well suited for mild climates where inhabitants can
spend much of the year outdoors in the courtyard, and where they don't have
to cope with snow and ice -- places such as Florida, Texas, New Mexico,
Arizona and California.

But courtyard houses usually make little sense in New England, upstate New
York, Appalachia, the upper Midwest or the foothills of the Rockies.

One-level courtyard homes fit poorly on sites that aren't reasonably flat
or on tight, awkwardly shaped lots. Given their introverted nature, they
are rarely the logical choice for lots with dramatic views.

Generally, the one-level courtyard house configuration is among the more
expensive ways to build a home. It is much less compact than other building
types, especially the two- or three-story, cubicly shaped house with
basement and attic. It entails more roof area and perimeter wall surface to
enclose a given amount of interior space, resulting in not only increased
construction costs but also increased heating, cooling and maintenance
costs.

Some could read the Wall Street Journal article and mistakenly infer that
the neo-fortress style may be perfectly okay for anyone, anywhere. Clearly
it is not.

But there's something more disturbing than the potential for readers to
draw incorrect inferences about architectural styling. The report implies
that Americans' perceptions, attitudes and behavior are increasingly shaped
by security concerns. Segregation and isolation, not integration and
connection, seem to preoccupy more and more citizens who want to live not
only in gated communities, but also in gated homes.

Referring to the $8 million home in Florida with a pair of turrets,
Fletcher reports that the turret near the garage houses a platform accessed
by a circular stair and a fireman's pole. "The client," noted the builder,
"thought it would be great for his grandchildren to be able to shoot their
BB guns out the window, then slide down the pole."

Before arriving at this Florida bastion, perhaps visitors should know more
about the prospective BB gun targets as well as the rest of the home
arsenal -- what about crossbows and boiling oil?

The $1 million builder's house in Kentucky encompasses 10,000 square feet
and has a three-story, outdoor media room, according to Fletcher, including
a shower, hot tub, fireplace, gazebo with built-in television and
kitchenette, bar, small pool and waterfall. The owners boast that, when
fireworks are flying in distant Cincinnati, they can sit in their outdoor
media room and watch the fireworks live and on television at the same time,
experiencing the real and the virtual simultaneously.

Could this be the ultimate suburban house, a house connected only
electronically to the rest of the world, a house you never would have to
leave?

Courtyard homes can be wonderful in their place, their virtues being
spatial amenity, not defendability. They should be built not to escape the
communal world outside, but rather to heighten enjoyment of the familial
world inside.

As for turrets, man's home may be his castle, but it doesn't have to look
like one.

(c) Copyright 1998 The Washington Post Company


--------------------------------NOTICE:------------------------------
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by ISPI. In compliance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed free without profit or payment for non-profit research
and educational purposes only.
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But, none of this can be accomplished without your kind and
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--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 08:03:31 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: cryptographically secure mailing list software
Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A19284612@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




I've been curious as to whether anyone has developed and/or whether it
is technically feasible to develop a cryptographically secure
listserver.

e.g. 

User would submit their PGP public key to the listserver upon
subscription, submitted messages would be encrypted with the
listserver's public key, the listserver would decrypt the message and
re-encrypt it with the key of all members and distribute it. This way
the users don't need to manage all the keys or even know the list
membership. Most listservers already have the ability to moderate
subscription messages, the list would not be snoopable.

What sort of overhead would exist on a list of a few hundred members?

If there is not something existing that will do this, what is the best
mailing list codebase to start from? Majodomo I imagine might not be up
to the task being written in Perl, LSoft ListSERV I love but it is
commercial (no sourcecode).

	Matt




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 05:46:45 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Government Regulation & Scienctific Research (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809072204.RAA05499@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 02:52:06 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Alan Olsen 
> Subject: Re: Government Regulation & Scienctific Research

> I expect the first world to start to take after the East German model.

You mean the one that failed after only 40 years?...

> -- Those who are precieved as being a possible threat will be
> marginalized, jailed, forced to flee, or co-opted.
> 
> -- A large portion of the population will be devoted towards control of
> the population.  (Either in law enforcement, paid snitches, propaganda, or
> similar activities.)

There is a problem with these two conclusions. In short, the impact on
American business would be devastating. It won't happen to this degree for
the simple reason that there wouldn't be anyone to actualy pay for it and
the American citizen is a LOT less likely to stand their post after 3 months
of not getting paid then a Stasi proll ever did.

If you think about it a moment there are really only TWO issues driving this
entire situation in this country:

-  increased technology and its run-away consequences are completely
   beyond the keen of politico's because they can't spend the number of
   hours per day playing with it to understand it AND still run a
   campaign. They feeled threatened and as a consequence their national
   model (in their heads) is threatened. Politicians hate to hear:
   "Oh, I don't need any help. Thanks." With the ease that technology
   jumps ANY boundary it's a futile task they've handed themselves.

-  the drug war. With the movement currently gaining strength in this
   country for medical marijuana and the knock-down-drag-out that's
   coming between the states and the feds over it, the cost will be
   prohibitive. We are currently at something like 1/150 people in this
   country in jail, the majority for minor drug offences. The impact
   of this (this is 1 person in jail out of every 2 blocks of homes)
   on the citizen-government relationship is souring fast. When the
   police in San Francisco say on national news they won't prosecute
   pot houses because they "have more important things to deal with like
   murder and burglary" something big is coming...

   And it ain't a bunch of nazi stormtroopers on every corner.

> -- Much of the Government's budget will be devoted to citizen control.

No it won't, it will be dedicated to spin-control and legerdemain.
Government toadies like their air conditioned desks entirely too much.

> In 50 years I expect that the creative citizenry will either be
> underground, fled, or no longer participating in the active discorse of
> the society.  All of the life will be sucked out of the population in
> order to fight the "Scapegoats of the Week/Month/Year/Century". 

I doubt it. What's going to happen is that the reach of government is going
to weaken because it's going to become harder (not easier) to track
individuals. Why do you think these folks are so hot and heavy on this now?
They know something is coming that will make their world-view irrelevant and
it scares the hell out of them.

History shows that any country that does what you describe lasts no more
than a couple of generations (the 20 yr. kind). Even if you go back to the
Romans you will find that there is a definite pattern to the way the laws
swing from restrictive to permissive.

> It will only fall apart when we reach a level where no one wants to live
> here any more and it falls apart from internal system failure and
> hemoraging.

It will fall apart because much of the discussion will become irrelevant.

It's interesting that doom-sayers like yourself never mention that the
number of opposition camps to the fed's is growing, not lessening. They are
finding it harder, not easier, to figure out what people are doing and why.
The one negative aspect to this movement is that it tends to attrack very
indipendant individuals who don't know how to cooperate, cooperation is the
only advantage the feds have on their side.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 05:50:42 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: e$: crypto-expatriatism (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809072208.RAA05578@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 17:29:12 -0400
> From: Robert Hettinga 
> Subject: e$: crypto-expatriatism

> Ridgeway told Eisenhower at the outset that Vietnam was a multi-million-man
> war, and Eisenhower stayed out accordingly, throwing a few marginal people on
> the ground to shut Lodge up. It took Testosterone Jack to get a Special-Forces
> hard-on. Eventually he and Desktop Lyndon ended up screwing a pooch
> instead of the commies.

Balonely, do your research somewhere beside a bar. JFK had no intention of
sending more troops in and every intention of withdrawing the troops that
were there. There are two sources you can look at to verify this. The first
is the troop count over time and the internal presidential memos to the
Chiefs of Staff. Had JFK not been shot there would have been NO US troops in
Vietnam by the end of '64.

LBJ is the nit-wit who crewed the proverbial pooch.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 05:34:41 +0800
To: e$@vmeng.com, cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: e$: crypto-expatriatism
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----


At 3:38 PM -0400 on 9/7/98, Robert Hettinga wrote about Ryan Lackey's
whereabouts, on cypherpunks:

> If I told you, I would have to kill you?

Whew. Glad Ryan has now said something publically now about his and Ian's bit
of extraterritorial subtrifuge (though Ian  doesn't qualify, of course). I
mean, I just *hate* keeping secrets... ;-).

Frankly, I *really* have a hard time with all this
man-without-a-first-world-country, crypto-expat stuff. I think making the
technology not eonomically optional is the way to change things, and no
amount of romantic, jurisdiction-shopping "regulatory arbitrage" is going
to alter reality all that much.

But, I guess, Anguilla's as nice a place to have this affliction as any I can
think of.

And, I wish Vince -- and now, apparently, Ryan -- good luck, whatever happens.


Yet, for some reason, memories of Vietnam-era draft-dodgers keep coming to
mind. For what it cost them all personally, not much good came of it, I'd say,
for them or anyone else. The people who protested the war and "fought the good
fight" to end it stayed here to do it, after all. The most potent anti-war
activists were Vietnam vets themselves, for that matter. And, of course,
Ridgeway told Eisenhower at the outset that Vietnam was a multi-million-man
war, and Eisenhower stayed out accordingly, throwing a few marginal people on
the ground to shut Lodge up. It took Testosterone Jack to get a Special-Forces
hard-on. Eventually he and Desktop Lyndon ended up screwing a pooch
instead of the commies.


Do people out there really think somebody like Gore's going to do a
crypto-amnesty someday? I didn't think so. Ashcroft, maybe, but don't hold
your breath, there, either. It'll be decades, I bet, and our "boys over
there" will have grey hair long before they do come back home on this one.
Political inertia is probably going to keep a few people we know outside
the fence, looking in, for an awful long time after the issue's utterly
dead.

I expect people who do this crypto-expat stuff are going to get their
new passports refused at the U.S. border when they visit, and I think that
things are going to get worse for them for a long time before they get better.
Of course, there's a fair argument to be made that if they do get refused,
it's probably time to leave, anyway, but I'll let someone else gnaw that bone.

And, frankly, I *do* expect that the FBI will attempt domestic crypto
controls, just like they've been been trying to do for some time now. But,
unlike a lot of people, I think that the marketplace will steamroller all
such silliness into yet another roadtop attraction, before or after its
legislation.

Anyway, as the old "excrable" e$yllogism goes,

Digital commerce is financial cryptography.
Financial cryptography is strong cryptography.
Therefore, if there's no strong cryptography, there's no digital commerce.


So, call me an optimist.

Like I've said before, I've heard the end of life and liberty as we know it
predicted over and over again -- hell, I've even believed so myself, once or
twice -- but, like the Gibbon quote in my .sig goes, "however it may deserve
respect for its usefulness and antiquity", I ain't seen it happen yet.

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.5.5

iQEVAwUBNfRQJMUCGwxmWcHhAQHb7gf+ImnoGG28coDgde4cDgnwHyQatO78nY4B
9bMfB9bE1FCqAIZNKfrPzqhJpZzCbYEDYQexXe8bRsl32M7FnIye7w4r7kxeXxns
LbLWY83juOAJNgMhPxPhFVcXb8NqwOQzCnYjLdfKSuJ6/lZuNGvsVohHwYuhNxc9
WlOW1WsqeSl3KyzpdDyZU1jAUvNEJQU9JoeeEvlwFNM7zMW3ZoIQB5SSVLf2HYzX
vtpnZiRsOeSXt0sWmlXHiZ+DeB+79z1z157cg/AOn/qAGBLBgZuDp+dbRH7B4ynR
ngB6XS+irSzNnMWQrVdNYPuRPRRQ+h/eV+US2Cmjc3uuFcnR/+tnNg==
=0UKh
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: jkthomson 
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 08:48:15 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re:
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980907174032.006c2e74@dowco.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 06:28 PM 9/7/98 EDT, CRBREW9802@aol.com wrote:
>how did u do it

i tink i smarter 'dan you, 'dats how.



-----------------------------------------------------------------------
 james 'keith' thomson   www.bigfoot.com/~ceildh
 jkthomson:C181 991A 405C EAFB 2C46 79B5 B1DC DB78 8196 122D [06.07.98]
 ceildh   :1D79 59AF ED75 5945 6003 8240 DA34 ACCA 9DE4 6BC9 [05.14.98]
 ICQ:746241  at pgp.mit.edu     ...and former sysop of tnbnog BBS
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Knocked; you weren't in.                                  - Opportunity
=======================================================================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Eric Murray 
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 08:55:35 +0800
To: mgering@ecosystems.net
Subject: Re: cryptographically secure mailing list software
In-Reply-To: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A19284612@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
Message-ID: <199809080053.RAA07220@slack.lne.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Matthew James Gering writes:
> 
> 
> I've been curious as to whether anyone has developed and/or whether it
> is technically feasible to develop a cryptographically secure
> listserver.
> 
> e.g. 
> 
> User would submit their PGP public key to the listserver upon
> subscription, submitted messages would be encrypted with the
> listserver's public key, the listserver would decrypt the message and
> re-encrypt it with the key of all members and distribute it. This way
> the users don't need to manage all the keys or even know the list
> membership. Most listservers already have the ability to moderate
> subscription messages, the list would not be snoopable.
> 
> What sort of overhead would exist on a list of a few hundred members?

At ~1sec/ encryption (varies greatly depending on your list hardware, should
be less on a newer PC) adding an extra 200 seconds of CPU time for each 
mail message to the list is probably acceptable.


> If there is not something existing that will do this

Check out PGPdomo.

I found a copy at:
ftp://hawww.ha.osd.mil/pgpdomo/pgpdomo.tar.Z


-- 
Eric Murray          N*Able Technologies                    www.nabletech.com
(email:  ericm  at the sites lne.com or nabletech.com)     PGP keyid:E03F65E5




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ryan Lackey 
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 06:27:11 +0800
To: Robert Hettinga 
Subject: Re: e$: crypto-expatriatism
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



(Note: my original message was posted to Cypherpunks, which I consider
to be substantially different than DBS: had I been posting to DBS, I would
have included different details...list differentiation is kin of useful,
it's why the different lists were created in the first place)
> 
> At 3:38 PM -0400 on 9/7/98, Robert Hettinga wrote about Ryan Lackey's
> whereabouts, on cypherpunks:
> 
> > If I told you, I would have to kill you?

I never said this.  If you'd like to fabricate/summarize/editorialize,
please make it clear that that's what you're doing, by using the traditionally
accepted editorial convention of square brackets, or some other convention.
I prefer Chicago Manual of Style, but I'm sure the AP Stylebook is acceptable.
> 
> Whew. Glad Ryan has now said something publically now about his and Ian's bit
> of extraterritorial subtrifuge (though Ian  doesn't qualify, of course). I
> mean, I just *hate* keeping secrets... ;-).
> 
Ian Goldberg isn't involved -- he's working on Zero Knowledge Systems,
AFAIK, and I wish him luck, but I haven't really spoken to him in months.  He's
a Canadian, anyway.  I haven't mentioned working with anyone else anywhere,
other than that I'm working for "interesting" clients.  If you know otherwise,
it isn't particularly public knowledge at this point.

> Frankly, I *really* have a hard time with all this
> man-without-a-first-world-country, crypto-expat stuff. I think making the
> technology not eonomically optional is the way to change things, and no
> amount of romantic, jurisdiction-shopping "regulatory arbitrage" is going
> to alter reality all that much.

I'm not breaking US law.  I'm a US citizen.  I pay my taxes, respect US
law, etc.  It's just that I'm choosing to work on something somewhere other
than the US, for a variety of reasons.

> And, I wish Vince -- and now, apparently, Ryan -- good luck, whatever happens.

Vince formally renounced his citizenship, becoming a citizen of a small
african country, and intends to remain in Anguilla.  I left the US
for a while to work on stuff, and to get away from a major US city for
a while.  I think there's a huge difference here.  What I have
done is fundamentally no different than going to Montana to write code
for a while, other than that it was cheaper and more convenient for me to
come to Anguilla.

(Of course, Vince seems to be doing quite well...)  I just happen to not want
to go back to the US right now, it's not that I can't if I decide I want
to at some point.

Thanks,
Ryan
(who generally does not provide confidential information to people
who do not like keeping secrets, out of kindness for them)




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: CRBREW9802@aol.com
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 06:40:23 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: h
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



how did u do it




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: M Taylor 
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 05:41:45 +0800
To: jkthomson 
Subject: Re: request for [cdn] export laws.
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980905160024.0070f7c0@dowco.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Sat, 5 Sep 1998, jkthomson wrote:

> I have been looking for the export restrictions (if any) that regulate
> canadian encryption products.  I have tried searching the net for a little
> while, and although I have found a few (contradictory) blurbs on it, I have
> found no 'official' documents or links to them.  does this information
> exist on the web, and if not, who would be the best department to ask so
> that I get the least red-tape or 'runaround'?
> 
>  james 'keith' thomson   www.bigfoot.com/~ceildh

Yes Canada has export restrictions, which are handled by the Department of
Foreign Affairs and International Trade (DFAIT). The particular act you
should be interested in is the "Export and Import Control Act of Canada."
The DFAIT freely distributes "A Guide to Canada's Export Controls" which
was updated in 1996, and is available from the International Trade Centers
of the Gov't of Canada, see the blue pages in your phone book.

Excerpts from the Export Control List of Canada 
 outline the regulations relating to
'Information Security' which includes encryption.

Encryption software may fall under the "General Software Note":
------------
This List does not embargo "software" which is either:

a.Generally available to the public by being: 
  1.Sold from stock at retail selling points, without restriction, by
  means of: 
    a.Over-the-Counter transactions; 
    b.Mail order transactions; or 
    c.Telephone call transactions; and 
  2.Designed for installation by the user without further substantial
  support by the supplier; or 
b.In the public domain". 

>From the definitions of pp 49-55

"In the public domain" 
  As it applies to the International Lists, means "technology" or 
"software" which has been made available without restrictions upon its
further dissemination.
N.B.
Copyright restrictions do not remove "technology" or "software" from being
"in the public domain". 
------------

Further references:
 Canadian Cryptography Page
 http://fractal.mta.ca/crypto/

 Canada's export controls by Marc Plumb  
 http://www.efc.ca/pages/doc/crypto-export.html

 Excerpts from the Export Control List of Canada by W. G. Unruh
 
 http://axion.physics.ubc.ca/ECL.html

 Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade
 http://www.dfait-maeci.gc.ca/
 (I have yet to find anything of use from the DFAIT site)

 Cryptography / Cryptographie Industry Canada
 http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/crypto
 (talk about the idea of changes to current policy)

 International Crypto Law Survey, by Bert-Jaap Koops 
 http://cwis.kub.nl/~frw/people/koops/lawsurvy.htm

 Canadian Export Controls on Encryption Products and Technology by Stewart
A. Baker and Michael D. Hintze
 http://www.steptoe.com/encryp.htm


--
M Taylor   mctaylor@  /  glyphmetrics.ca | privacy.nb.ca




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ian Grigg 
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 06:41:35 +0800
To: rah@shipwright.com
Subject: Re: e$: crypto-expatriatism
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199809072239.SAA02421@systemics.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> At 3:38 PM -0400 on 9/7/98, Robert Hettinga wrote about Ryan Lackey's
> whereabouts, on cypherpunks:
>
> > If I told you, I would have to kill you?
>
> Whew. Glad Ryan has now said something publically now about his and Ian's bit
> of extraterritorial subtrifuge (though Ian  doesn't qualify, of course). I
> mean, I just *hate* keeping secrets... ;-).

As secrets go, this was not a big one...  The main thing that is
meant to be confidential was the nature and names of our clients,
and under normal business practice, they hold the option(s) on PR.
I don't think anyone should need to die to protect that, as even then,
their main issue is (probably) not revealing a relationship with a
product until it did what they wanted.

> Frankly, I *really* have a hard time with all this
> man-without-a-first-world-country, crypto-expat stuff.

Well, it's not *quite* like that.  The US was seriously considered,
but Ryan's offer of a fraternity bedroom/office, T1 or no T1, was
not as attractive as some time in the sun.  After all, FC came to
Anguilla for good reasons.

Also, there are other sites under long term consideration, not
in the US, but in other cool places.  The main reason for
considering these sites is that they make business sense; and
they are definately cool.  Maybe we'll keep the details to
ourselves until they are vapour-compliant.

It should be mentioned that the contagion properties of
renouncement are somewhat less than epidemic.  Vince decided to
"do the deed," but others are not exactly leaping for their
passports and Lonely Planet guides.  In fact, most of the at-risk
group here are still swearing by the bible and running up the flag
every morning, just in case anybody gets the wrong idea.  Or at
least that's what it seems like to those of us immunised at birth.

iang




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 10:25:39 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: What we are Fighting
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I've been politely corrected in email. I meant "allusion" of course. I
seem to find myself doing this more often lately... --Declan

On Mon, 7 Sep 1998, Declan McCullagh wrote:

> We even make an illusion to Monica's Cigar in a story in this week's Time.
> A Microsoft story I was working on died at the last moment, unfortunately.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mark Hedges 
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 10:32:37 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: crossposting
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Ya know, I sometimes cross-post across lists when I shouldn't, so I'm
guilty of that too, but now that I'm on so many of these lists, I really
see the reasons behind one of the biggest complaints. I'm getting about 4
copies of each of the messages in the Vince Cate thread.



--mark--
-hedges-





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 08:13:45 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: cryptographically secure mailing list software (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809080031.TAA06618@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: Matthew James Gering 
> Subject: cryptographically secure mailing list software
> Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 16:59:56 -0700 

> I've been curious as to whether anyone has developed and/or whether it
> is technically feasible to develop a cryptographically secure
> listserver.

> User would submit their PGP public key to the listserver upon
> subscription, submitted messages would be encrypted with the
> listserver's public key,

Actualy to be secure the subscriber would need to use one of the remailers
public key to encrypt their key prior to submission to the remailer. Of
course this doesn't prevent a MIT attack and key substitution. Otherwise
you'd be sending  your key in the clear, generaly a bad thing.

This touches on the main problem with distribution and use of PKE, in that
no secure key management protocal suitable for internet sort of
architectures has ever been developed that doesn't require some trusted 3rd
party or an existing secure channel.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "James A. Donald" 
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 10:52:22 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: <199809080247.TAA09568@proxy4.ba.best.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 08:09 PM 9/7/98 -0500, Jim Choate wrote:
> Here in Austin we have a local radio dj who does a public 
> access show on various issue localy and nationaly, Alex 
> Jones, who has put a piece on some sort of bio-weapon test 
> that occurred in '66 in San Francisco. He is claiming that 
> deaths resulted.
>
> Anyone have a clue what he's talking about?

Had a bioweapons test occurred in the people's republic of 
San Francisco, it seems likely they would have erected 
billboards spelling out the details in letters visible from 
the moon.

I assume that this is one of these anonymous source things.  
According to official, yet anonymous sources the US/CIA 
forces committed every crime of every regime around the 
world, including the purported crimes of Pol Pot in Cambodia, 
(I kid you not) and they are actually running a totalitarian 
state in the USA but the people are too brainwashed to 
notice.  They also sell cocaine.

Similarly, according to sources that are not anonymous, but 
which (strange to report) no one else can find, Nike is 
actually producing its shoes in something very like slave 
labor camps.

The reason the refutation of the CNN story (US uses nerve gas 
to kill defectors and exterminate villagers) made such news 
is that CNN was so careless as to actually name identifiable 
real people as the source of this story. (They needed faces 
and it is hard to put the faces of anonymous sources on TV.) 
Naturally those real people were mighty pissed and denied the 
story attributed to them.

There is a wagon load of similar stories using supposedly 
official, but anonymous sources, or sources that do not 
appear to be real people.  The print media works much better 
for such sources than TV.

In short, do you think the internet is the net of a million 
lies?  Not so.  It is the place where lies get exposed. It is
far easier to get away with lying in the old media, because
nobody answers you back. 

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     q3LBLR6odNzwIKI1p2zeYnP4Kzv2MSbsmKm0u2M5
     4W6++mmQ2e3TnYU5J3oM1+BvPivukgtAcxEWE47MN
-----------------------------------------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because 
of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this 
right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.


http://www.jim.com/jamesd/      James A. Donald




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 10:38:20 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: wired on y2k
Message-ID: <199809080235.TAA23415@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




------- Forwarded Message

Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 18:38:07 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com
From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Wired: "The Y2K Solution: Run for Your Life!!"

Source:  Wired
http://www.wired.com/wired/6.08/y2k.html

F E A T U R E|Issue 6.08 - August 1998 

The Y2K Solution: Run for Your Life!! 
 By Kevin Poulsen 

 Scott Olmsted is dressed to do some serious debugging: comfortable khaki
shorts, a T-shirt from a Visual Basic conference, and a visor from one of
his Silicon Valley employers. But we're a long way from the land of
cubicles and industrial parks. In fact, we're a long way from just about
everything. 

 Scott is debugging with a hammer, trying to remove a stubborn two-by-four
from the wall of a mobile home plunked down in the high desert of Southern
California. After banging away for a few minutes, he finally yanks the stud
off the wall in a flurry of sawdust and splintered wood. It's a small
victory, but it brings him one step closer to his own solution to the
greatest computer glitch in history - the Year 2000 Bug. With more than 20
years of computer programming experience under his belt, Scott has decided
that the only real fix for the Y2K problem may be to pack up and move to
this patch of land 75 miles from his San Diego home. "In the next year or
so," he predicts, "the most common cocktail party chatter will be, 'What
are you doing to prepare for Y2K?' But by then, it will be too late." 

 This is sagebrush country, the kind of place where you can hear your
footsteps crunching in the gravel. But even here, 30 miles from the nearest
interstate, a line of telephone poles runs along the dirt road and PacBell
terminal boxes sprout from the ground alongside the cacti. While carpet
installers work in the next room, Scott is planning for the day when it may
all be useless. The property came with a freshwater well, and he'll soon
have a solar panel for power. For protection against looters, he's about to
purchase his first gun. "I've seen how fragile so many software systems are
- - how one bug can bring them down," he worries. The idea of hundreds,
thousands, millions of bugs cascading all at once keeps him awake at night. 

 His Y2K retreat is easy to spot. In an area where high security means a
few strands of barbed wire clinging to a rusty pole, Scott's chain-link
fence is shiny and new. The alarm-company sign that hangs from the fence
would be more at home in Brentwood, and on the roof there's a DirecTV
satellite dish pointed toward the sky. The shed outside his back door will
hold nonperishable food. But with a programmer's methodical logic, Scott
didn't rush out to buy a year's worth of dehydrated grub. First he sampled
the fare from several distributors. One company sold a textured vegetable
protein that was a bit more expensive, but it came in a variety of flavors:
chicken, beef, and taco. "It was pretty good," Scott says, in the halting
measured tones of someone who doesn't want come across as a wacko. "We were
pleasantly surprised." So he splurged. What the hell, doomsday comes along
only once in a lifetime. 

 Throughout history, prophets and visionaries have spent their lives
preparing for the end of the world. But this time veteran software
programmers are blazing the millennial trail. The geeks have read the
future, not in the Book of Revelation, but in a few million lines of
computer code. 

 By now, the source of their anxiety is well known. In the 1950s and 1960s,
when the computer world was young and memory was expensive, programmers
developed a convention for marking the passage of time. It's the same
system most people use to date their checks: two digits for the day, two
for the month, and two for the year. Dropping the "19" from the year was
convenient, and it saved two bytes of precious RAM every time it was used. 

 Those were days of innocence and optimism. Everyone knew what would happen
if this little shortcut was still in use in AD 2000 - the two-digit year
would roll over like the odometer on an old Chevy, and the computers would
think they'd jumped 100 years into the past. Programmers knew it, and they
warned their managers. Not to worry, was the usual reply. When the
millennium finally rolls around, all this code will be ancient history. 

 But the code stuck around. The old software worked fine in the
postmainframe world, so nobody felt compelled to replace it. Instead, like
Roman architects, they just built on top of it. The two-digit year became a
standard, wired right into the heart of Cobol - the Common Business
Oriented Language that still serves as the digital workhorse of commerce
and industry. It also crept into the embedded microchips found in
everything from VCRs to nuclear power plants. For years the Y2K bug sat
quietly, remembered largely as an amusing textbook example of poor software
design. 

 But as 2000 drew near, the screwup became less amusing. In November 1996,
the comp.software.year-2000 newsgroup was launched, creating a forum that
would soon become ground zero for the Y2K survivalist movement. But at
first, the charter was clear: Discussions would be limited to Y2K bug
fixes, remediation strategies, and reports. 

 Over the course of the next year, information poured into the newsgroup,
and most of it was bad: The FAA was hopelessly behind schedule in patching
air-traffic-control systems; Edward Yardeni, chief economist for Deutsche
Morgan Grenfell Bank, laid odds that Y2K upheaval would trigger a
recession; Ed Yourdon, a respected software guru and author of 25 computer
books, predicted the collapse of the US government - not long after he
packed up and moved to New Mexico. 

 Optimism became a scarce commodity. Philosophical questions were raised:
Do programmers have a moral duty to remain at their keyboards until the
last moments of 1999, like captains on a sinking ship? Debates raged over
social Darwinism and the ownership of wheat in grain elevators. The
conversation moved on to the viability of dry dog food as emergency
rations. Plans were made to begin converting equities into gold and buying
land in remote parts of California, Arizona, and Oklahoma. January 1998 saw
250 cross-posts to misc.survivalism - up from an average of 30 a month in
late 1997. Gradually, a new acronym entered the Internet lexicon:
TEOTWAWKI, pronounced "tee-OH-tawa-kee." The End of the World as We Know
It. The
 Internet's very own survival movement was born. 

 Scott Olmsted has known about the Y2K bug since the 1980s, but he never
gave it much thought until early 1997, when he received a snail-mail flyer
from Gary North, a historian and early leader in the Y2K preparedness
movement. After reading it, Scott remembers feeling a vague sense of dread.
But as a rational guy and student of decision analysis - the science of
logical decision making in the face of chronic uncertainty - he didn't jump
to any conclusions. Instead, he went online to do some research. As he
pored over Web sites and news clippings, Scott felt himself moving through
the same psychological stages endured by people confronted with fatal
illness: denial, fading into anger, leading to a deep depression that
culminates in a sense of acceptance. "I'm still not 100 percent sure that
the world's coming to an end," he admits. "But the idea that I may want to
get out of town for a while is not such a long shot. It's enough to make me
want to prepare." 

 With the exception of his wife, most of the non-geeks closest to Scott
think he's a little nuts. His half-brother, Clark Freeman, thought he was
going overboard. But since then, Clark has come around a bit - he, too, is
planning to stockpile some food in case things get rough. 

 If his brother is taking Y2K so seriously, he figures there might well be
something to it. "Scott has always been the level-headed one," Clark
remembers. "The classic straightlaced nerd." 

 "I've spoken with friends and relatives about this, and I've gotten
nowhere," Scott sighs. Worse, some of the more intense Y2K survivalists
also think he's crazy - or at least a bit naďve. After all, Scott plans to
celebrate New Year's Eve at his home in the suburbs; the place in the
desert will be there just in case things get rough. Then there's his fence
- - it has no perimeter alarms, and he isn't even trying to camouflage his
location. But worst of all, his hideaway is only a half tank of gas away
from Los Angeles - close enough to the big city that he could wake up one
postapocalyptic morning to find hordes of Los Angelinos parked outside his
desert redoubt. 

 The hardcores believe it will happen like this: On January 1 (or shortly
thereafter), the electricity grid will go dead. Groceries in America's
refrigerators will go bad. Food distribution systems will crash and store
shelves will go bare within days. Businesses will fail, either because they
aren't Y2K compliant or because they are dependent on noncompliant
customers and suppliers. As losses mount and companies go under, the stock
market will plummet. Banks will calculate interest for negative 100 years.
The government will stop issuing entitlement checks to gray-haired senior
citizens when their age suddenly clicks back to -35. Panic will set in.
Police dispatch systems will be crippled, and the only law will be the law
of the jungle. Desperate citizens will abandon the cities to hunt for
resources in rural areas. They'll come looking for the mad prophets - the
Y2K survivalists - ready to plunder their food, their heat, and their
communications links. They'll zero in on Scott and his conspicuous retreat
like a pack of wolves on the scent of a kill. 

 But they'd better stay away from Steve Watson's place. 

 Steve Watson, a 45-year-old systems analyst, is still kicking himself for
not preparing sooner. He didn't get going until early this year, and he
worries that he still has a lot of adjusting to do. As he puts it, "I
didn't even know how to tan a hide until a couple of months ago." 

 If all goes according to plan, Steve will ring in the new year at a secure
compound somewhere in southern Oklahoma. While the Pollyannas of the world
watch Times Square on the tube, he'll be listening to the radio for early
news of Y2K disaster. When the power goes black - perhaps at the stroke of
midnight - he'll be ready with a small arsenal of guns. A generator will
power his bunker indefinitely, but no light will escape to the outside -
none of Steve's neighbors will even know that there is a survivalist in
their midst. 

 Eight months ago, if you'd told Steve that Y2K survivalism would become
his obsession, he would have laughed in your face. Last year, he was a
happy-go-lucky Y2K project analysis manager for DMR Consulting, a
Canada-based computer consulting firm, just finishing up a big remediation
project for a major American phone company. The effort was grueling - 10
writers, programmers, and analysts cleaning up 10 million of lines of Cobol
code. But in the end it all worked out, and the phone company's billing
system was declared ready for 2000. 

 In that heady moment of self-congratulation, Bill Finch, one of Steve's
coworkers, approached him with a thought. "Steve," he said, "don't you
realize that everything stops if the power grid goes down?" 

 Anxiety set in. The telephone company had poured substantial resources
into its Y2K effort. Even then, Steve's project had been an odyssey plagued
with countless unexpected glitches and snags. If the power utilities - with
their Byzantine grid of thousands of generators and substations around the
continent - weren't already well along in their efforts, then all the
systems he'd dragged into Y2K compliance would be dead as doornails when
the lights went out. 

 That afternoon, Steve hit the Net, where he learned that the situation is
far worse than he had imagined. The power grid relies on a sophisticated
feedback mechanism: Remote terminal units report their power needs up the
communications chain that controls the output of electricity generators.
The entire network is riddled with embedded chips. Nuclear plants supply
nearly 20 percent of the power in the grid, and none of them have been
certified as Y2K compliant. Charles Siebenthal, head of the Year 2000
embedded systems project at the Electric Power Research Institute, says the
industry is just beginning to look for potential Y2K failure points.
Anecdotes from industry consultants suggest that if the year 2000 came
today, every utility in the country would crash. "No electric plant or
facility of any kind has been Y2K tested without some kind of impact," says
David Hall, a senior consultant with the Cara Corporation. "There isn't
enough time to fix everything. There will be some disruption. How long? How
deep? We just don't know." 

 Then there are ripple effects to consider. "There's not a single railroad
switch in the country that's manual anymore," Steve says. "They're all
computer controlled, and railroads deliver coal and fuel to power plants." 

 Exit Steve Watson, bright-eyed optimist; enter the new Steve Watson, Y2K
survivalist, rugged pioneer, and Renaissance man in training. Steve began
spending six hours a day on the Internet, studying alternative power,
construction techniques, and emergency medical procedures. Anything he
couldn't find online, he ordered from local bookstores or Amazon.com. He'd
never kept a gun in the house, but soon he had three: a 30-30 for deer
hunting, a .22 for small game, and a 9-mm handgun for personal protection.
Of course, the 9-mm is practically a popgun against looting mobs, so four
M-16 assault rifles are also on the way. 

 Finally, he pooled his money with Bill Finch, his DMR coworker, to buy 500
remote acres in Oklahoma. (Bill holds the public deed to the property, so
his name has been changed in this article to keep the location secret.) In
choosing the hideaway site and its size, Steve overengineered to account
for family and friends - few of whom subscribe to his Y2K scenario. "Most
people think I'm nuts. Even my kids think, Dad's going off the deep end."
Steve's wife, Teresa, has been more supportive. She's no computer expert,
but her Baptist faith tells her that the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse
could ride in with a global computer crash. Meanwhile, Steve is making
plans for everyone else: close friends, family members, sisters-in-law,
brothers-in-law - and their children, mothers, and fathers. Forty people in
all. In 2000, they'll work together to till the soil and patrol the fence
line. 

 Steve's doomsday vision is the same as that of most Y2K radicals, but
radicals can pop up in some pretty mainstream places - like the US Central
Intelligence Agency, which is advising its agents abroad to keep cash on
hand and stockpile extra blankets in preparation for New Year's Day 2000.
The agency worries that bugs in the power networks and communications
backbones of developing nations could cause outages that would jeopardize
the safety and well-being of its agents. 

 Millions of Americans have already gotten a small taste of critical system
failure. When the onboard control system of the Galaxy IV communications
satellite failed on Tuesday, May 19, 1998, the outage temporarily crippled
US pager networks, several broadcast news operations, and even credit card
verifications systems. Most of the disruptions were brief - technicians
were able to switch to backup communications paths - but doctors who use
pagers as a lifeline with patients and colleagues were forced to set up
camp in hospitals and offices. The failure of one satellite threw a wrench
into the mechanisms of modern life, perhaps providing a peek at what life
may be like at the dawn of the new millennium. 

 Or sooner. While the full brunt of the Y2K bug is reserved for AD 2000,
some early problems are already developing. In 1996, Visa and MasterCard
temporarily stopped issuing credit cards with an expiration date of 2000
after credit card verification terminals began choking on the "00." The
gaffe led to customer complaints and a lawsuit filed by a suburban Detroit
grocery store against its computer supplier, TEC America Inc. Since then,
most verification systems have been upgraded, but Y2K is making its
presence known in other areas. The Information Technology Association of
America released a survey last March showing 44 percent of the US companies
they polled have already experienced Y2K failures. Ninety-four percent of
the respondents termed Y2K a "crisis." 

 The GartnerGroup estimates that 180 billion lines of code need to be
examined and that 20 to 30 percent of all firms worldwide have not yet
started preparing for Y2K. Many of these are expected to suffer significant
failures. In a series of studies issued over the last year, Gartner
surveyed 15,000 companies in 87 countries to assess their Y2K readiness.
The results weren't encouraging. Small companies rated lowest - for most,
winning over new customers has taken priority over the Y2K problem. But
midsize and large companies are lagging, too. Gartner then rated the
overall Y2K efforts of industrialized nations on a scale of zero to five,
where five is total compliance on all systems. The highest scorers on the
scale, including the US, Canada, and Australia, rated somewhere between two
and three - a score that suggests they have completed an inventory of Y2K
vulnerabilities, but not yet developed a comprehensive remediation plan. 

 The US may be at the front of the pack in the Y2K race, but that's small
comfort to some legislators. Last March, the House Subcommittee on
Government Management, Information, and Technology warned that 37 percent
of the critical systems used by federal agencies will not be ready in time.
Then in June, California Republican Stephen Horn, who heads the
subcommittee, issued a scathing report card on the Clinton administration's
Y2K progress. He gave the government an F. 

 John Koskinen, head of the president's Year 2000 Conversion Council,
complains that Horn is just a tough grader. "As a government, we're in a C+
to B range," he argues. Koskinen keeps a digital desktop clock that runs
backward - on the day we spoke, the clock showed 609 days, 8 hours, 39
minutes, 16 seconds, and counting - but he generally refrains from calling
the situation a crisis. Instead, he describes it as a "critical management
challenge." 

 He fully expects the federal government's critical systems to be ready on
time, or even early. "Many companies, financial institutions, and federal
agencies are still working on the problem," he says. "But most major
organizations plan to have their solutions in place by the first quarter of
next year." 

 If the council is successful, Koskinen believes, Americans will confront
little more than a few minor inconveniences when the year 2000 finally
rolls around. "There's not enough information right now to indicate that
stocking up on Coleman stoves and Sterno is an appropriate response," he
says. And in the end, he predicts, "a lot of people won't notice." 

 Koskinen has earned the respect of some Y2Kers by emphasizing the need for
high-level planning in the event that some systems fail. But Y2K
survivalists feel more comfortable with their own personal contingency
plans, and a commercial infrastructure is already forming to support them.
Walton Feed, an Idaho food distributor that sells products over the Net, is
doing a brisk business in long-term supplies; the company attributes this
to Y2K. And in Sully County, South Dakota, developer Russ Voorhees has
attracted national publicity and hundreds of potential clients for his
"Heritage Farms 2000" project - a Y2K survival community that's been on
hold since June, when a local planning commission refused to grant the
necessary building permits. For those who want to go it alone, there's a
sense of adventurous fun in their preparations - the pride of
self-sufficiency and an excuse to get away from the keyboard to earn some
merit badges. But Y2K preparedness is not just a Boy Scout fetish, and it
isn't always about getting away from it all. 

 "If everybody moves to rural areas, they'll just take their problems with
them," explains Paloma O'Riley, a red-haired, forty-something mother, wife,
and computer expert. Paloma lives in the small town of Louisville,
Colorado, just east of Boulder, and when she looks around her community she
doesn't see potential looters - she sees neighbors. Her suburban hamlet has
become a major landmark on the Y2K map as the world headquarters of The
Cassandra Project, a grassroots Y2K preparedness organization that can
perhaps best be described as a kind of Millennial Neighborhood Watch. 

 Until last year, Paloma was a Y2K project manager at the Rover Group, a
UK-based auto manufacturer, where her first responsibility was to identify
all of the company's vulnerable systems and target them for patching. But
her search didn't end with a couple of corporate mainframes. Inadvertently,
Paloma opened up the Pandora's Box of Y2K: embedded systems. 

 Embedded systems draw the Y2K bug-fixing task out of cyberspace and into
the real world. There are lots of pea-brained microchips out there, nestled
in everything from microwave ovens and automobiles, to power plants and oil
refineries. Most don't care what the date is, but a small percentage of
them do, and that made Paloma nervous. "I became concerned about just how
prevalent embedded systems are," she recalls. "Several members of my family
have medical problems, so when I started investigating I became very
concerned about medical devices like defibrillators, physiological
monitoring equipment, and the entire medical services infrastructure." 

 When her contract came up for renewal in 1997, Rover asked Paloma to stay
on in London to 2000. She declined - the thought of family and friends
surrounded by noncompliant systems that might leave them cold, hungry, and
without medical services was too much to ignore. Back in the States she
began networking with other people who shared her concerns, and that's when
she realized "we needed to put together an organization to address the
issues and get information out to the public." 

 Thus The Cassandra Project was born. In Greek mythology, Cassandra was a
mortal woman courted by the god Apollo. To win her affections, Apollo gave
her the gift of prophecy. Still, Cassandra rejected him, so the frustrated
deity decreed that no one would ever believe her predictions. Paloma
O'Riley gave a nod to Cassandra's fate when she chose the name for her Y2K
preparedness group, but she is precisely the kind of mortal woman you'd
want at your next PTA meeting - a firm believer in the notion that some
good, old-fashioned community-building may keep the Y2K nightmare at bay. 

 The Cassandra Project has helped spawn a dozen Y2K community preparedness
groups around the country. It has a board of directors that includes
several computer professionals and a Web site at millennia-bcs.com that
lists a menu of articles discussing possible Y2K scenarios, ranging from
minor annoyances to outright Y2Kaos. The site attracts more than 100,000
visitors a month. 

 Between speaking engagements, Paloma spends her days organizing biweekly
meetings with neighbors to discuss contingency plans, and lobbying the
state government. "We've been working with the Cassandra group on a lot of
their initiatives," says Steve McNally, staff director of the Colorado
Information Management Commission. "They've talked to several legislators
and the governor's office and brought some awareness of the issues to the
table." 

 For her part, Paloma and her family plan to stockpile a six-month supply
of food. Her worst-case scenarios look much the same as those of the most
hardcore, self-sufficient Y2K survivalists, but the bomb-shelter aspect is
conspicuously missing. Paloma believes that people will pull together in
times of turmoil. If calamity strikes and she is forced to draw the line,
she's determined to do so in her own backyard. 

 Even if Paloma's neighborly pragmatism sets her apart from the militia
types and fundamentalist Christians who regularly contact The Cassandra
Project, her efforts have brought her in contact with a thriving
premillennial subculture. "People in other millennial movements, including
Christian fundamentalism, point to Y2K as a sign of the times," says Philip
Lamy, a professor of sociology and anthropology at Castleton College in
Vermont. Lamy specializes in the study of secular millennialism, and he
sees Y2K survivalism as a prime example of the genre. "Generally,
millennial movements appear when a society or culture is going through a
period of rapid cultural, economic, or technological change," he says. "The
explosion of the Internet and the World Wide Web is fueling a lot of this
now." 

 Still, there are a few things that set the Y2Kers apart from the crowd.
For one, the Y2K bug is not simply a matter of myth, superstition, or
prophesy - it is a tangible problem hardwired into the fabric of our
industrial society. In addition, the people who are taking Y2K most
seriously are not laypeople or neophytes - they are specialized technicians
who approach the situation with a sophisticated understanding of society's
hidden machinery. But if heightened technical awareness alone could explain
the apocalyptic conclusions drawn by the Y2K survivalists, then every
well-informed computer geek would be moving to the desert - and that
clearly isn't happening. With so many intertwined variables to consider,
logic inevitably takes a back seat to subjective intuition - a personal
sense of security that extends from the microcosm of a single computer
program to the macrocosm of modern society. Ultimately it all comes down to
faith. 

 But this, too, sets the Y2K survivalists apart. True millennialism is
rooted in faith - fundamentalist Christians may anticipate an apocalypse,
but they optimistically expect it to be followed by 1,000 years of
celestial rule. Y2K survivalism, on the other hand, doesn't concern itself
with redemption. It is antimillennial - the polar opposite of
techno-millennial movements like the Extropians who see technology as the
stairway to a higher plane. (See "Meet the Extropians," Wired 2.10, page
102.) 

 "All this suggests that you don't have to be a religious fanatic, a
Christian fundamentalist, or a ufologist to believe that our world may be
in trouble - that there's something serious afoot in our nation and our
world," Lamy adds. "The Y2K problem is overlapping with other survivalist
movements, and like them it shares a kind of a fatalistic vision of the
future." 

 Three weeks have passed since Scott Olmsted put the carpet installers to
work in his retreat. The carpet is in now, and he's turned his attention to
other details, like night-vision equipment - his property is on high
ground, and with the right hardware he could scan most of the valley from
his backyard. He's also thinking of getting laser eye surgery so that he
won't be dependent on contact lenses after 2000. It never seems to end.
"Once you take the first steps to prepare, you basically admit that this is
big enough to do something about. And then you realize you should be doing
more." 

 Scott has turned his back on denial - the blind faith that allows people
to live normal lives in the face of staggering complexity, risk, and
uncertainty. Instead, he's chosen to acknowledge his own vulnerability. As
he describes it, "I've always known that the economy is complex and that we
live on the end of a long chain of ships, planes, and 18-wheelers." Scott
sees how the Y2K bug could disrupt that chain, and like other resolute
souls - environmental activists, antiabortion protesters, and corporate
whistle-blowers to name a few - he, too, has been driven to act by the
clarity and intensity of his vision. The rest of us may be content without
quite so much awareness, but embracing the Bug has actually made Scott feel
better. "I know one guy who started taking Prozac when his denial fell
away," he says. "Taking action - doing something - really gets you out of
that." 

 Scott admits there isn't enough evidence to prove he's right. But, he
insists, that's not the way to look at it. "There's not nearly enough
evidence pointing the other way to make me abandon my preparations," he
says. In a way, he's managed to optimize the Y2K problem - even if the new
millennium dawns without incident, his efforts will have yielded a supply
of inexpensive food, a new collection of practical skills, and a nice
vacation home in the country. It's an eminently logical win-win, and Scott
has taken comfort in that. "I'm not waiting until the ground is shaking to
prepare for the Y2K earthquake," he muses. "I'm going to be ready for an
8.5. I may look foolish if it turns out to be minor, but that's OK. That's
the nature of decisionmaking under uncertainty."

 Kevin Poulsen is a columnist for ZDTV.com . 

 America Offline 

 ( Inside the Great Blackout of '00 )

 "Most of the nation's power systems must be compliant, or they all go
down, region by region, in one gigantic, rolling blackout," warns Gary
North, keeper of the oldest, most notorious Y2K doomsday site on the Web.
If the lights go out at the dawn of the 21st century, North believes the
failure will be permanent, because the computers that control the grid will
be unfixable if there isn't power to run them. Thereafter, he argues, the
blackout will trigger the collapse of civilization. 

 The North American grid is vulnerable to simultaneous failures. Generating
facilities in the US, Canada, and Mexico jointly move power through
high-tension lines that distribute electricity through four regional
interconnections. Within each region, if one facility goes offline, the
others compensate to pick up the slack. But there's not much spare capacity
built into the system; the North American Electric Reliability Council, a
group that is drawing up a timetable of Y2K fixes for the Department of
Energy, admits that if multiple generating facilities fail in one region,
this "may result in stressing the electric system to the point of a
cascading outage over a large area." 

 This is how it could happen: A power station is equipped with safety
systems that deactivate steam boilers if they aren't maintained frequently.
Suppose maintenance was last performed in 1999, which an embedded chip
recorded as "99." Now it's the year 2000, so the chip subtracts the old
year, 99, from the new year, 00, and finds, amazingly, that maintenance was
last performed -99 years ago. Clearly this is an error, so the chip shuts
down all the boilers, just to be safe. 

 Meanwhile, at another power station, a temperature sensor attached to a
transformer averages its readings over time. On January 1, 2000, the sensor
divides temperature by the year - which is expressed as "00" - and comes up
with an infinite value, triggering another shutdown signal. If small faults
like these knock out a half dozen facilities, the rest will go offline to
protect generators from burning out in a hopeless effort to meet the
growing demand. 

 The distribution grid also has weak points. "We have at least 800
different types of embedded controls on the wires," explains Gary Steeves,
director of a Y2K project at TransAlta Utilities, the largest
investor-owned power company in Canada. "Some of the protective devices log
dates of faults in activity and can automatically take a component out of
service." If the same controller has been installed in thousands of remote
locations, and the chips share the same Y2K bug, they'll all fail
simultaneously. 

 Most US power utilities refuse to comment on the likelihood of these
disasters, fearing litigation if they offer reassurances that turn out to
be wrong. 

 Tim Wilson, publisher of Y2k News, worries about the nearly 9,000 small
regional companies that pull power off the grid at the local level.
"They're clueless as to what to do about Y2K," says Wilson. "They know they
have embedded chips, but they don't know where they are. If there's a power
shortage, rural areas may not be allowed to take power off the grid,
because cities could have a higher priority." 

 This suggests an ironic scenario: Remote areas may remain dark for weeks
or months after January 1, 2000, leaving Y2K survivalists waiting in their
isolated cabins for the lights to come back on - while complacent urban
dwellers enjoy uninterrupted service. 

 - Charles Platt 

Copyright (c) 1993-98 The Condé Nast Publications Inc. All rights reserved. 
Compilation Copyright (c) 1994-98 Wired Digital Inc. All rights reserved. 
- -----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
- -----------------------




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------- End of Forwarded Message




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 08:52:02 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: A question about gas warfare in San Fran in '66...
Message-ID: <199809080109.UAA06813@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Hi,

Here in Austin we have a local radio dj who does a public access show on
various issue localy and nationaly, Alex Jones, who has put a piece on some
sort of bio-weapon test that occurred in '66 in San Francisco. He is
claiming that deaths resulted.

Anyone have a clue what he's talking about?


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 11:23:05 +0800
To: Mark Hedges 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 7:30 PM -0700 9/7/98, Mark Hedges wrote:
>Ya know, I sometimes cross-post across lists when I shouldn't, so I'm
>guilty of that too, but now that I'm on so many of these lists, I really
>see the reasons behind one of the biggest complaints. I'm getting about 4
>copies of each of the messages in the Vince Cate thread.
>
>

I stay off of these proliferating lists. The Cypherpunks list was the first
one, and despite its many flaws over the years, it's enough for me.

I'm not on the Lewispunks list, nor the Perrypunks list, nor any of the
many Hettingapunks lists. And when the Cypherpunks list briefly became the
Sandypunks list, I left for a while.

Works for me. Cypherpunks...the Real Thing (TM).

BTW, I dislike getting all these crossposts from Lewispunks, Perrypunks,
and Hettingapunks, all the more so when attempting to _reply_ to these
messages often generates "You have no permission to post to this list"
responses, or the like. Makes me want to get some of Vulis' tools and apply
them appropriately.

--Tim May

"The tree of liberty must be watered periodically with the blood of
tyrants...."
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist              | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 09:13:44 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Emergency G-7 meeting in England on Sat....
Message-ID: <199809080131.UAA06954@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> X-within-URL: http://cnnfn.com/hotstories/economy/9809/07/g7_pkg/

>    Britain calls deputies to London to discuss Russia's economic turmoil

>    Special Report: Eyes on the Market - Sept. 7, 1998
>    
>    International Monetary Fund LONDON (CNNfn) - An emergency meeting of
>    mid-level G-7 officials will take place in London on Saturday to
>    discuss the Russian economic crisis and try to hammer out ways to help
>    countries facing economic meltdown
>    [INLINE] The special meeting of senior finance and foreign-ministry
>    officials from the world's industrialized nations was scheduled after
>    the Duma, Russia's lower house, Monday rejected for a second time the
>    nomination of Victor Chernomyrdin as prime minister, leaving Russia
>    without a government.
>    [INLINE] The G-7 officials are also expected to discuss how to protect
>    their own economies.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 12:20:50 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Citizenship silliness.  Re: e$: crypto-expatriatism
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



(As per my last message, I have deleted all of the mailing lists except
Cypherpunks.)


At 7:51 PM -0700 9/7/98, Black Unicorn wrote:


>I am constantly amused at the attitude of Americans who are convinced that
>anyone who lives outside of the "end-all-be-all of the civilized world"
>must live in some third world country.  This too is nonsense.  If I were
>jurisdiction shopping I'm not sure I'd pick a small African nation, as some
>others have, because this state would be extremely unlikely to protect me
>from the kind of nastiness that nations are expected to protect citizens
>from.  Also, visa-free travel is a pretty big consideration.  Picking a
>country not well established in this regard is folly.

I'm not going to criticize Vince for his decision to go with
Mozambique...but....

Seems not to too long ago Mozambique was a semi-Communists African
dictatorship, involved in various wars with RSA (the original one). And
various killings of Westerners, and so on.

But I may be misremembering. And Mozambique may have changed (or, rather,
the ruler may have changed). But it seems to me that perhaps paying $5000
for Mozambiquan (sp?) citizenship will buy just about that amount of
protections.

Vince is probably safe enough. But if ever gets into a snit at some border,
or if the U.S. seeks an extradition (not that I am predicting this, as
crypto is still too obscure for such headline-grabbing efforts), I rather
doubt the Mozambiquan consulate or embassy will lift even a little toe to
help.

Were I to expatriate, I'd pick a more stable country, like Switzerland or
the other countries BU often speaks of. Or I'd just travel around and count
on  their being little nexus of my activities.

(Which would be my main strategy: use the very cryptographic technologies
we support to virtualize the activities and make the whole issue moot. This
would require a fair amount of care in using the tools consistently,
without any slip-ups, but it seems doable. With care, one could run a
crypto development effort from some pleasant U.S. locale with no means of
proving any U.S. laws were being broken. Sameer seems to be doing it even
fairly openly, so imagine how much more secure someone who never publicized
his role could be?)


>Some of you who want a counterpoint based on something a bit more
>substantial than provincial fear mongering might ask after Tim May, who I
>recall considered departing the United States but decided against it for a
>variety of reasons.

Well, I'm in a somewhat different position from either Vince, who has
renounced, or Ryan, who is merely residing in the sunny Caribbean for some
amount of time.

* My assets are inextricably known to the IRS, SEC, and suchlike, via the
rules about stock ownership, transfer agents, etc. (Even had I wanted to
"hide" my assets as long ago as the early 80s, it would have been
effectively too late.)

* There may be ways I could flee the U.S. and get my assets out. Merely
taking my _certificates_ out is of course not nearly enough. Certificates
are not bearer instruments. Wiring my assets out may work, but is risky.
(Were I more serious about fleeing, I would know more about this. But I am
not, so I haven't looked into this in detail.)

* Oh, and this kind of flight by me would probably complicate my life in
various ways. While BU says he knows of various tax fugitives who still
cross back into the U.S., I know of others who don't feel comfortable doing
so, even in sneaking back i across border crossings like Tijuana. (And Marc
Rich, at the extreme end in wealth, is unable to return to the U.S., due to
warrants out for his detention on tax evasion and securities  charges.)

* What I dislike the most about the U.S. system are things like the gun
control laws, the tax rates, the welfare system, and the increasing
surveillance. Alas, most of the best havens are worse in some ways than the
U.S. (Most Caribbean nations alow no guns. Monaco has surveillance cameras
in all public places and does not like having "outspoken" residents...the
Prince may revoke citizenship on a whim and if a resident draws too much
attention to his little fiefdom. Several major European countries are more
thoroughgoingly statist than the U.S.)

* Anyway, I also _like_ a lot here in the U.S. I like the Constitution,
esp. the earlier, more libertarian parts. I like the scenery. I like the
freedom to travel. I like being able to get on my motorcycle and ride for
as long as I want with no pesky border crossings, no requirement to present
my passport at hotels, no police demanding "papers," and no 70% wealth
confiscation tax rates like some countries have.

(No doubt not all countries have all or most of these things. Enough do.
And as John Walker, founder of Autodesk and expatriate to Switzerland said,
moving to Switzerland from California will NOT lower one's tax rate.)

* I'm a Californian and I like the pleasant Mediterranean climate.

(BTW, I lived for a year on the French Riviera in the 1960s and have
visited a couple of times since. Neither France nor Monaco nor Italy is a
viable place for me, for various reasons.)

I wish Vince, Ryan, and all the others well.

--Tim May

"The tree of liberty must be watered periodically with the blood of
tyrants...."
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist              | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Kawika Daguio" 
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 09:31:26 +0800
To: rah@shipwright.com, e$@vmeng.com
Subject: Re: e$: crypto-expatriatism
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Bob,

The syllogism at the end of your post is exactly why I have spent the last more than 5 years negotiating and lobbying and why we (FI's) and you (everyone else) shouldn't worry about the impact of government policy on the security of financial communications.  Market (macro and microeconomics plays a bigger role than the government.

I wouldn't give up my citizenship,  neither would I join those guys at the Fort and give up my rights to move about the world without asking permission to travel or publish.  I like the balance where I am, but respect those who wish to protest peacefully.  

I would prefer that folks kept us out of their fields of fire in the various skirmishes occuring during the cryptocrusades and left us to manage the policy for and the security of our space for ourselves and our customers.  

just my personal views...kawika...

<<< Robert Hettinga   9/ 7  5:29p >>>
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----


At 3:38 PM -0400 on 9/7/98, Robert Hettinga wrote about Ryan Lackey's
whereabouts, on cypherpunks:

> If I told you, I would have to kill you?

Whew. Glad Ryan has now said something publically now about his and Ian's bit
of extraterritorial subtrifuge (though Ian  doesn't qualify, of course). I
mean, I just *hate* keeping secrets... ;-).

Frankly, I *really* have a hard time with all this
man-without-a-first-world-country, crypto-expat stuff. I think making the
technology not eonomically optional is the way to change things, and no
amount of romantic, jurisdiction-shopping "regulatory arbitrage" is going
to alter reality all that much.

But, I guess, Anguilla's as nice a place to have this affliction as any I can
think of.

And, I wish Vince -- and now, apparently, Ryan -- good luck, whatever happens.


Yet, for some reason, memories of Vietnam-era draft-dodgers keep coming to
mind. For what it cost them all personally, not much good came of it, I'd say,
for them or anyone else. The people who protested the war and "fought the good
fight" to end it stayed here to do it, after all. The most potent anti-war
activists were Vietnam vets themselves, for that matter. And, of course,
Ridgeway told Eisenhower at the outset that Vietnam was a multi-million-man
war, and Eisenhower stayed out accordingly, throwing a few marginal people on
the ground to shut Lodge up. It took Testosterone Jack to get a Special-Forces
hard-on. Eventually he and Desktop Lyndon ended up screwing a pooch
instead of the commies.


Do people out there really think somebody like Gore's going to do a
crypto-amnesty someday? I didn't think so. Ashcroft, maybe, but don't hold
your breath, there, either. It'll be decades, I bet, and our "boys over
there" will have grey hair long before they do come back home on this one.
Political inertia is probably going to keep a few people we know outside
the fence, looking in, for an awful long time after the issue's utterly
dead.

I expect people who do this crypto-expat stuff are going to get their
new passports refused at the U.S. border when they visit, and I think that
things are going to get worse for them for a long time before they get better.
Of course, there's a fair argument to be made that if they do get refused,
it's probably time to leave, anyway, but I'll let someone else gnaw that bone.

And, frankly, I *do* expect that the FBI will attempt domestic crypto
controls, just like they've been been trying to do for some time now. But,
unlike a lot of people, I think that the marketplace will steamroller all
such silliness into yet another roadtop attraction, before or after its
legislation.

Anyway, as the old "excrable" e$yllogism goes,

Digital commerce is financial cryptography.
Financial cryptography is strong cryptography.
Therefore, if there's no strong cryptography, there's no digital commerce.


So, call me an optimist.

Like I've said before, I've heard the end of life and liberty as we know it
predicted over and over again -- hell, I've even believed so myself, once or
twice -- but, like the Gibbon quote in my .sig goes, "however it may deserve
respect for its usefulness and antiquity", I ain't seen it happen yet.

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga


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-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

For help on using this list (especially unsubscribing), send a message to
"dcsb-request@ai.mit.edu" with one line of text: "help".




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 09:51:12 +0800
To: Ryan Lackey 
Subject: Re: e$: crypto-expatriatism
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Time for a little air clearing, here...


At 6:22 PM -0400 on 9/7/98, Ryan Lackey wrote:


> (Note: my original message was posted to Cypherpunks, which I consider
> to be substantially different than DBS: had I been posting to DBS, I would
> have included different details...list differentiation is kin of useful,
> it's why the different lists were created in the first place)

Perils of the internet, Ryan, everything is everywhere forever. :-).

That's okay, you didn't sound that much different than you do anywhere
else. That was not perjorative, by the way...


> I never said this.  If you'd like to fabricate/summarize/editorialize,
> please make it clear that that's what you're doing, by using the
>traditionally
> accepted editorial convention of square brackets, or some other convention.
> I prefer Chicago Manual of Style, but I'm sure the AP Stylebook is
>acceptable.

Actually, I was quoting *myself*, talking about something you discussed
later, and which crossed paths with the post in question. It might help to
go back and reread the original, in the thread about the cypherpunk
hyperarchive, but, you're excused in the meantime. :-).


> Ian Goldberg isn't involved -- he's working on Zero Knowledge Systems,
> AFAIK, and I wish him luck, but I haven't really spoken to him in months.
>He's
> a Canadian, anyway.

I wasn't talking about *that* Ian. :-). As it is, Ian Grigg has outed
himself on another list already, but he's not the one making expatriate
noise, seeing as he's Australian, and all...

> I haven't mentioned working with anyone else anywhere,
> other than that I'm working for "interesting" clients.  If you know
>otherwise,
> it isn't particularly public knowledge at this point.

Um, yes. And I haven't said anything besides what's publically known.
Certainly *who* you're working for hasn't been revealed yet, and I haven't
done that. Even as much as I hate secrets. :-).


> I'm not breaking US law.  I'm a US citizen.  I pay my taxes, respect US
> law, etc.  It's just that I'm choosing to work on something somewhere other
> than the US, for a variety of reasons.

That's nice to know. Good to hear. See ya when you get back. At least you
haven't made that trip to Antigua or Barbados, or wherever, yet. That, in
my opinion, would be rather silly.

> > And, I wish Vince -- and now, apparently, Ryan -- good luck, whatever
>happens.
>
> Vince formally renounced his citizenship, becoming a citizen of a small
> african country, and intends to remain in Anguilla.  I left the US
> for a while to work on stuff, and to get away from a major US city for
> a while.  I think there's a huge difference here.

Again, marvellous.

> What I have
> done is fundamentally no different than going to Montana to write code
> for a while, other than that it was cheaper and more convenient for me to
> come to Anguilla.

Splendid. At the moment, I'd just barely prefer Anguilla to the North Fork
of the Flathead River myself, but my opinion on the subject is changing...

> (Of course, Vince seems to be doing quite well...)  I just happen to not want
> to go back to the US right now, it's not that I can't if I decide I want
> to at some point.

Again, marvellous. I would just be careful you don't fall in with the wrong
element while you're down there in the World's Best Place for Financial
Cryptography (tm). ;-).

> (who generally does not provide confidential information to people
> who do not like keeping secrets, out of kindness for them)

And, I might add, *you* didn't. :-).

Any information I've revealed on this is public. However, I'm in an
agressively public business, these days, yes? You don't put "Evangelism" in
your business name and expect to hide your light under a bushel basket...

Frankly, I'm only *really* obligated to keep secrets I'm paid to keep,
anymore. Word to the wise, for anyone else out there who wants call me up
and spill the beans. Past obligations will still be honored, of course, but
the rent's gotta be paid, same as it ever was. This includes "keep this
quiet, but..." in email, encrypted or otherwise, followed by This Week's
Business Plan. Frankly, I don't want to hear that stuff anymore unless
there's some remuneration behind it. Game over.

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 09:52:35 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Wired: "The Y2K Solution: Run for Your Life!!"
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Delivered-To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
X-Sender: believer@telepath.com
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 18:38:07 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com
From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Wired: "The Y2K Solution: Run for Your Life!!"
Mime-Version: 1.0
Sender: owner-ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
Precedence: list
Reply-To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  Wired
http://www.wired.com/wired/6.08/y2k.html

F E A T U R E|Issue 6.08 - August 1998

The Y2K Solution: Run for Your Life!!
 By Kevin Poulsen

 Scott Olmsted is dressed to do some serious debugging: comfortable khaki
shorts, a T-shirt from a Visual Basic conference, and a visor from one of
his Silicon Valley employers. But we're a long way from the land of
cubicles and industrial parks. In fact, we're a long way from just about
everything.

 Scott is debugging with a hammer, trying to remove a stubborn two-by-four
from the wall of a mobile home plunked down in the high desert of Southern
California. After banging away for a few minutes, he finally yanks the stud
off the wall in a flurry of sawdust and splintered wood. It's a small
victory, but it brings him one step closer to his own solution to the
greatest computer glitch in history - the Year 2000 Bug. With more than 20
years of computer programming experience under his belt, Scott has decided
that the only real fix for the Y2K problem may be to pack up and move to
this patch of land 75 miles from his San Diego home. "In the next year or
so," he predicts, "the most common cocktail party chatter will be, 'What
are you doing to prepare for Y2K?' But by then, it will be too late."

 This is sagebrush country, the kind of place where you can hear your
footsteps crunching in the gravel. But even here, 30 miles from the nearest
interstate, a line of telephone poles runs along the dirt road and PacBell
terminal boxes sprout from the ground alongside the cacti. While carpet
installers work in the next room, Scott is planning for the day when it may
all be useless. The property came with a freshwater well, and he'll soon
have a solar panel for power. For protection against looters, he's about to
purchase his first gun. "I've seen how fragile so many software systems are
- how one bug can bring them down," he worries. The idea of hundreds,
thousands, millions of bugs cascading all at once keeps him awake at night.

 His Y2K retreat is easy to spot. In an area where high security means a
few strands of barbed wire clinging to a rusty pole, Scott's chain-link
fence is shiny and new. The alarm-company sign that hangs from the fence
would be more at home in Brentwood, and on the roof there's a DirecTV
satellite dish pointed toward the sky. The shed outside his back door will
hold nonperishable food. But with a programmer's methodical logic, Scott
didn't rush out to buy a year's worth of dehydrated grub. First he sampled
the fare from several distributors. One company sold a textured vegetable
protein that was a bit more expensive, but it came in a variety of flavors:
chicken, beef, and taco. "It was pretty good," Scott says, in the halting
measured tones of someone who doesn't want come across as a wacko. "We were
pleasantly surprised." So he splurged. What the hell, doomsday comes along
only once in a lifetime.

 Throughout history, prophets and visionaries have spent their lives
preparing for the end of the world. But this time veteran software
programmers are blazing the millennial trail. The geeks have read the
future, not in the Book of Revelation, but in a few million lines of
computer code.

 By now, the source of their anxiety is well known. In the 1950s and 1960s,
when the computer world was young and memory was expensive, programmers
developed a convention for marking the passage of time. It's the same
system most people use to date their checks: two digits for the day, two
for the month, and two for the year. Dropping the "19" from the year was
convenient, and it saved two bytes of precious RAM every time it was used.

 Those were days of innocence and optimism. Everyone knew what would happen
if this little shortcut was still in use in AD 2000 - the two-digit year
would roll over like the odometer on an old Chevy, and the computers would
think they'd jumped 100 years into the past. Programmers knew it, and they
warned their managers. Not to worry, was the usual reply. When the
millennium finally rolls around, all this code will be ancient history.

 But the code stuck around. The old software worked fine in the
postmainframe world, so nobody felt compelled to replace it. Instead, like
Roman architects, they just built on top of it. The two-digit year became a
standard, wired right into the heart of Cobol - the Common Business
Oriented Language that still serves as the digital workhorse of commerce
and industry. It also crept into the embedded microchips found in
everything from VCRs to nuclear power plants. For years the Y2K bug sat
quietly, remembered largely as an amusing textbook example of poor software
design.

 But as 2000 drew near, the screwup became less amusing. In November 1996,
the comp.software.year-2000 newsgroup was launched, creating a forum that
would soon become ground zero for the Y2K survivalist movement. But at
first, the charter was clear: Discussions would be limited to Y2K bug
fixes, remediation strategies, and reports.

 Over the course of the next year, information poured into the newsgroup,
and most of it was bad: The FAA was hopelessly behind schedule in patching
air-traffic-control systems; Edward Yardeni, chief economist for Deutsche
Morgan Grenfell Bank, laid odds that Y2K upheaval would trigger a
recession; Ed Yourdon, a respected software guru and author of 25 computer
books, predicted the collapse of the US government - not long after he
packed up and moved to New Mexico.

 Optimism became a scarce commodity. Philosophical questions were raised:
Do programmers have a moral duty to remain at their keyboards until the
last moments of 1999, like captains on a sinking ship? Debates raged over
social Darwinism and the ownership of wheat in grain elevators. The
conversation moved on to the viability of dry dog food as emergency
rations. Plans were made to begin converting equities into gold and buying
land in remote parts of California, Arizona, and Oklahoma. January 1998 saw
250 cross-posts to misc.survivalism - up from an average of 30 a month in
late 1997. Gradually, a new acronym entered the Internet lexicon:
TEOTWAWKI, pronounced "tee-OH-tawa-kee." The End of the World as We Know
It. The
 Internet's very own survival movement was born.

 Scott Olmsted has known about the Y2K bug since the 1980s, but he never
gave it much thought until early 1997, when he received a snail-mail flyer
from Gary North, a historian and early leader in the Y2K preparedness
movement. After reading it, Scott remembers feeling a vague sense of dread.
But as a rational guy and student of decision analysis - the science of
logical decision making in the face of chronic uncertainty - he didn't jump
to any conclusions. Instead, he went online to do some research. As he
pored over Web sites and news clippings, Scott felt himself moving through
the same psychological stages endured by people confronted with fatal
illness: denial, fading into anger, leading to a deep depression that
culminates in a sense of acceptance. "I'm still not 100 percent sure that
the world's coming to an end," he admits. "But the idea that I may want to
get out of town for a while is not such a long shot. It's enough to make me
want to prepare."

 With the exception of his wife, most of the non-geeks closest to Scott
think he's a little nuts. His half-brother, Clark Freeman, thought he was
going overboard. But since then, Clark has come around a bit - he, too, is
planning to stockpile some food in case things get rough.

 If his brother is taking Y2K so seriously, he figures there might well be
something to it. "Scott has always been the level-headed one," Clark
remembers. "The classic straightlaced nerd."

 "I've spoken with friends and relatives about this, and I've gotten
nowhere," Scott sighs. Worse, some of the more intense Y2K survivalists
also think he's crazy - or at least a bit naďve. After all, Scott plans to
celebrate New Year's Eve at his home in the suburbs; the place in the
desert will be there just in case things get rough. Then there's his fence
- it has no perimeter alarms, and he isn't even trying to camouflage his
location. But worst of all, his hideaway is only a half tank of gas away
from Los Angeles - close enough to the big city that he could wake up one
postapocalyptic morning to find hordes of Los Angelinos parked outside his
desert redoubt.

 The hardcores believe it will happen like this: On January 1 (or shortly
thereafter), the electricity grid will go dead. Groceries in America's
refrigerators will go bad. Food distribution systems will crash and store
shelves will go bare within days. Businesses will fail, either because they
aren't Y2K compliant or because they are dependent on noncompliant
customers and suppliers. As losses mount and companies go under, the stock
market will plummet. Banks will calculate interest for negative 100 years.
The government will stop issuing entitlement checks to gray-haired senior
citizens when their age suddenly clicks back to -35. Panic will set in.
Police dispatch systems will be crippled, and the only law will be the law
of the jungle. Desperate citizens will abandon the cities to hunt for
resources in rural areas. They'll come looking for the mad prophets - the
Y2K survivalists - ready to plunder their food, their heat, and their
communications links. They'll zero in on Scott and his conspicuous retreat
like a pack of wolves on the scent of a kill.

 But they'd better stay away from Steve Watson's place.

 Steve Watson, a 45-year-old systems analyst, is still kicking himself for
not preparing sooner. He didn't get going until early this year, and he
worries that he still has a lot of adjusting to do. As he puts it, "I
didn't even know how to tan a hide until a couple of months ago."

 If all goes according to plan, Steve will ring in the new year at a secure
compound somewhere in southern Oklahoma. While the Pollyannas of the world
watch Times Square on the tube, he'll be listening to the radio for early
news of Y2K disaster. When the power goes black - perhaps at the stroke of
midnight - he'll be ready with a small arsenal of guns. A generator will
power his bunker indefinitely, but no light will escape to the outside -
none of Steve's neighbors will even know that there is a survivalist in
their midst.

 Eight months ago, if you'd told Steve that Y2K survivalism would become
his obsession, he would have laughed in your face. Last year, he was a
happy-go-lucky Y2K project analysis manager for DMR Consulting, a
Canada-based computer consulting firm, just finishing up a big remediation
project for a major American phone company. The effort was grueling - 10
writers, programmers, and analysts cleaning up 10 million of lines of Cobol
code. But in the end it all worked out, and the phone company's billing
system was declared ready for 2000.

 In that heady moment of self-congratulation, Bill Finch, one of Steve's
coworkers, approached him with a thought. "Steve," he said, "don't you
realize that everything stops if the power grid goes down?"

 Anxiety set in. The telephone company had poured substantial resources
into its Y2K effort. Even then, Steve's project had been an odyssey plagued
with countless unexpected glitches and snags. If the power utilities - with
their Byzantine grid of thousands of generators and substations around the
continent - weren't already well along in their efforts, then all the
systems he'd dragged into Y2K compliance would be dead as doornails when
the lights went out.

 That afternoon, Steve hit the Net, where he learned that the situation is
far worse than he had imagined. The power grid relies on a sophisticated
feedback mechanism: Remote terminal units report their power needs up the
communications chain that controls the output of electricity generators.
The entire network is riddled with embedded chips. Nuclear plants supply
nearly 20 percent of the power in the grid, and none of them have been
certified as Y2K compliant. Charles Siebenthal, head of the Year 2000
embedded systems project at the Electric Power Research Institute, says the
industry is just beginning to look for potential Y2K failure points.
Anecdotes from industry consultants suggest that if the year 2000 came
today, every utility in the country would crash. "No electric plant or
facility of any kind has been Y2K tested without some kind of impact," says
David Hall, a senior consultant with the Cara Corporation. "There isn't
enough time to fix everything. There will be some disruption. How long? How
deep? We just don't know."

 Then there are ripple effects to consider. "There's not a single railroad
switch in the country that's manual anymore," Steve says. "They're all
computer controlled, and railroads deliver coal and fuel to power plants."

 Exit Steve Watson, bright-eyed optimist; enter the new Steve Watson, Y2K
survivalist, rugged pioneer, and Renaissance man in training. Steve began
spending six hours a day on the Internet, studying alternative power,
construction techniques, and emergency medical procedures. Anything he
couldn't find online, he ordered from local bookstores or Amazon.com. He'd
never kept a gun in the house, but soon he had three: a 30-30 for deer
hunting, a .22 for small game, and a 9-mm handgun for personal protection.
Of course, the 9-mm is practically a popgun against looting mobs, so four
M-16 assault rifles are also on the way.

 Finally, he pooled his money with Bill Finch, his DMR coworker, to buy 500
remote acres in Oklahoma. (Bill holds the public deed to the property, so
his name has been changed in this article to keep the location secret.) In
choosing the hideaway site and its size, Steve overengineered to account
for family and friends - few of whom subscribe to his Y2K scenario. "Most
people think I'm nuts. Even my kids think, Dad's going off the deep end."
Steve's wife, Teresa, has been more supportive. She's no computer expert,
but her Baptist faith tells her that the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse
could ride in with a global computer crash. Meanwhile, Steve is making
plans for everyone else: close friends, family members, sisters-in-law,
brothers-in-law - and their children, mothers, and fathers. Forty people in
all. In 2000, they'll work together to till the soil and patrol the fence
line.

 Steve's doomsday vision is the same as that of most Y2K radicals, but
radicals can pop up in some pretty mainstream places - like the US Central
Intelligence Agency, which is advising its agents abroad to keep cash on
hand and stockpile extra blankets in preparation for New Year's Day 2000.
The agency worries that bugs in the power networks and communications
backbones of developing nations could cause outages that would jeopardize
the safety and well-being of its agents.

 Millions of Americans have already gotten a small taste of critical system
failure. When the onboard control system of the Galaxy IV communications
satellite failed on Tuesday, May 19, 1998, the outage temporarily crippled
US pager networks, several broadcast news operations, and even credit card
verifications systems. Most of the disruptions were brief - technicians
were able to switch to backup communications paths - but doctors who use
pagers as a lifeline with patients and colleagues were forced to set up
camp in hospitals and offices. The failure of one satellite threw a wrench
into the mechanisms of modern life, perhaps providing a peek at what life
may be like at the dawn of the new millennium.

 Or sooner. While the full brunt of the Y2K bug is reserved for AD 2000,
some early problems are already developing. In 1996, Visa and MasterCard
temporarily stopped issuing credit cards with an expiration date of 2000
after credit card verification terminals began choking on the "00." The
gaffe led to customer complaints and a lawsuit filed by a suburban Detroit
grocery store against its computer supplier, TEC America Inc. Since then,
most verification systems have been upgraded, but Y2K is making its
presence known in other areas. The Information Technology Association of
America released a survey last March showing 44 percent of the US companies
they polled have already experienced Y2K failures. Ninety-four percent of
the respondents termed Y2K a "crisis."

 The GartnerGroup estimates that 180 billion lines of code need to be
examined and that 20 to 30 percent of all firms worldwide have not yet
started preparing for Y2K. Many of these are expected to suffer significant
failures. In a series of studies issued over the last year, Gartner
surveyed 15,000 companies in 87 countries to assess their Y2K readiness.
The results weren't encouraging. Small companies rated lowest - for most,
winning over new customers has taken priority over the Y2K problem. But
midsize and large companies are lagging, too. Gartner then rated the
overall Y2K efforts of industrialized nations on a scale of zero to five,
where five is total compliance on all systems. The highest scorers on the
scale, including the US, Canada, and Australia, rated somewhere between two
and three - a score that suggests they have completed an inventory of Y2K
vulnerabilities, but not yet developed a comprehensive remediation plan.

 The US may be at the front of the pack in the Y2K race, but that's small
comfort to some legislators. Last March, the House Subcommittee on
Government Management, Information, and Technology warned that 37 percent
of the critical systems used by federal agencies will not be ready in time.
Then in June, California Republican Stephen Horn, who heads the
subcommittee, issued a scathing report card on the Clinton administration's
Y2K progress. He gave the government an F.

 John Koskinen, head of the president's Year 2000 Conversion Council,
complains that Horn is just a tough grader. "As a government, we're in a C+
to B range," he argues. Koskinen keeps a digital desktop clock that runs
backward - on the day we spoke, the clock showed 609 days, 8 hours, 39
minutes, 16 seconds, and counting - but he generally refrains from calling
the situation a crisis. Instead, he describes it as a "critical management
challenge."

 He fully expects the federal government's critical systems to be ready on
time, or even early. "Many companies, financial institutions, and federal
agencies are still working on the problem," he says. "But most major
organizations plan to have their solutions in place by the first quarter of
next year."

 If the council is successful, Koskinen believes, Americans will confront
little more than a few minor inconveniences when the year 2000 finally
rolls around. "There's not enough information right now to indicate that
stocking up on Coleman stoves and Sterno is an appropriate response," he
says. And in the end, he predicts, "a lot of people won't notice."

 Koskinen has earned the respect of some Y2Kers by emphasizing the need for
high-level planning in the event that some systems fail. But Y2K
survivalists feel more comfortable with their own personal contingency
plans, and a commercial infrastructure is already forming to support them.
Walton Feed, an Idaho food distributor that sells products over the Net, is
doing a brisk business in long-term supplies; the company attributes this
to Y2K. And in Sully County, South Dakota, developer Russ Voorhees has
attracted national publicity and hundreds of potential clients for his
"Heritage Farms 2000" project - a Y2K survival community that's been on
hold since June, when a local planning commission refused to grant the
necessary building permits. For those who want to go it alone, there's a
sense of adventurous fun in their preparations - the pride of
self-sufficiency and an excuse to get away from the keyboard to earn some
merit badges. But Y2K preparedness is not just a Boy Scout fetish, and it
isn't always about getting away from it all.

 "If everybody moves to rural areas, they'll just take their problems with
them," explains Paloma O'Riley, a red-haired, forty-something mother, wife,
and computer expert. Paloma lives in the small town of Louisville,
Colorado, just east of Boulder, and when she looks around her community she
doesn't see potential looters - she sees neighbors. Her suburban hamlet has
become a major landmark on the Y2K map as the world headquarters of The
Cassandra Project, a grassroots Y2K preparedness organization that can
perhaps best be described as a kind of Millennial Neighborhood Watch.

 Until last year, Paloma was a Y2K project manager at the Rover Group, a
UK-based auto manufacturer, where her first responsibility was to identify
all of the company's vulnerable systems and target them for patching. But
her search didn't end with a couple of corporate mainframes. Inadvertently,
Paloma opened up the Pandora's Box of Y2K: embedded systems.

 Embedded systems draw the Y2K bug-fixing task out of cyberspace and into
the real world. There are lots of pea-brained microchips out there, nestled
in everything from microwave ovens and automobiles, to power plants and oil
refineries. Most don't care what the date is, but a small percentage of
them do, and that made Paloma nervous. "I became concerned about just how
prevalent embedded systems are," she recalls. "Several members of my family
have medical problems, so when I started investigating I became very
concerned about medical devices like defibrillators, physiological
monitoring equipment, and the entire medical services infrastructure."

 When her contract came up for renewal in 1997, Rover asked Paloma to stay
on in London to 2000. She declined - the thought of family and friends
surrounded by noncompliant systems that might leave them cold, hungry, and
without medical services was too much to ignore. Back in the States she
began networking with other people who shared her concerns, and that's when
she realized "we needed to put together an organization to address the
issues and get information out to the public."

 Thus The Cassandra Project was born. In Greek mythology, Cassandra was a
mortal woman courted by the god Apollo. To win her affections, Apollo gave
her the gift of prophecy. Still, Cassandra rejected him, so the frustrated
deity decreed that no one would ever believe her predictions. Paloma
O'Riley gave a nod to Cassandra's fate when she chose the name for her Y2K
preparedness group, but she is precisely the kind of mortal woman you'd
want at your next PTA meeting - a firm believer in the notion that some
good, old-fashioned community-building may keep the Y2K nightmare at bay.

 The Cassandra Project has helped spawn a dozen Y2K community preparedness
groups around the country. It has a board of directors that includes
several computer professionals and a Web site at millennia-bcs.com that
lists a menu of articles discussing possible Y2K scenarios, ranging from
minor annoyances to outright Y2Kaos. The site attracts more than 100,000
visitors a month.

 Between speaking engagements, Paloma spends her days organizing biweekly
meetings with neighbors to discuss contingency plans, and lobbying the
state government. "We've been working with the Cassandra group on a lot of
their initiatives," says Steve McNally, staff director of the Colorado
Information Management Commission. "They've talked to several legislators
and the governor's office and brought some awareness of the issues to the
table."

 For her part, Paloma and her family plan to stockpile a six-month supply
of food. Her worst-case scenarios look much the same as those of the most
hardcore, self-sufficient Y2K survivalists, but the bomb-shelter aspect is
conspicuously missing. Paloma believes that people will pull together in
times of turmoil. If calamity strikes and she is forced to draw the line,
she's determined to do so in her own backyard.

 Even if Paloma's neighborly pragmatism sets her apart from the militia
types and fundamentalist Christians who regularly contact The Cassandra
Project, her efforts have brought her in contact with a thriving
premillennial subculture. "People in other millennial movements, including
Christian fundamentalism, point to Y2K as a sign of the times," says Philip
Lamy, a professor of sociology and anthropology at Castleton College in
Vermont. Lamy specializes in the study of secular millennialism, and he
sees Y2K survivalism as a prime example of the genre. "Generally,
millennial movements appear when a society or culture is going through a
period of rapid cultural, economic, or technological change," he says. "The
explosion of the Internet and the World Wide Web is fueling a lot of this
now."

 Still, there are a few things that set the Y2Kers apart from the crowd.
For one, the Y2K bug is not simply a matter of myth, superstition, or
prophesy - it is a tangible problem hardwired into the fabric of our
industrial society. In addition, the people who are taking Y2K most
seriously are not laypeople or neophytes - they are specialized technicians
who approach the situation with a sophisticated understanding of society's
hidden machinery. But if heightened technical awareness alone could explain
the apocalyptic conclusions drawn by the Y2K survivalists, then every
well-informed computer geek would be moving to the desert - and that
clearly isn't happening. With so many intertwined variables to consider,
logic inevitably takes a back seat to subjective intuition - a personal
sense of security that extends from the microcosm of a single computer
program to the macrocosm of modern society. Ultimately it all comes down to
faith.

 But this, too, sets the Y2K survivalists apart. True millennialism is
rooted in faith - fundamentalist Christians may anticipate an apocalypse,
but they optimistically expect it to be followed by 1,000 years of
celestial rule. Y2K survivalism, on the other hand, doesn't concern itself
with redemption. It is antimillennial - the polar opposite of
techno-millennial movements like the Extropians who see technology as the
stairway to a higher plane. (See "Meet the Extropians," Wired 2.10, page
102.)

 "All this suggests that you don't have to be a religious fanatic, a
Christian fundamentalist, or a ufologist to believe that our world may be
in trouble - that there's something serious afoot in our nation and our
world," Lamy adds. "The Y2K problem is overlapping with other survivalist
movements, and like them it shares a kind of a fatalistic vision of the
future."

 Three weeks have passed since Scott Olmsted put the carpet installers to
work in his retreat. The carpet is in now, and he's turned his attention to
other details, like night-vision equipment - his property is on high
ground, and with the right hardware he could scan most of the valley from
his backyard. He's also thinking of getting laser eye surgery so that he
won't be dependent on contact lenses after 2000. It never seems to end.
"Once you take the first steps to prepare, you basically admit that this is
big enough to do something about. And then you realize you should be doing
more."

 Scott has turned his back on denial - the blind faith that allows people
to live normal lives in the face of staggering complexity, risk, and
uncertainty. Instead, he's chosen to acknowledge his own vulnerability. As
he describes it, "I've always known that the economy is complex and that we
live on the end of a long chain of ships, planes, and 18-wheelers." Scott
sees how the Y2K bug could disrupt that chain, and like other resolute
souls - environmental activists, antiabortion protesters, and corporate
whistle-blowers to name a few - he, too, has been driven to act by the
clarity and intensity of his vision. The rest of us may be content without
quite so much awareness, but embracing the Bug has actually made Scott feel
better. "I know one guy who started taking Prozac when his denial fell
away," he says. "Taking action - doing something - really gets you out of
that."

 Scott admits there isn't enough evidence to prove he's right. But, he
insists, that's not the way to look at it. "There's not nearly enough
evidence pointing the other way to make me abandon my preparations," he
says. In a way, he's managed to optimize the Y2K problem - even if the new
millennium dawns without incident, his efforts will have yielded a supply
of inexpensive food, a new collection of practical skills, and a nice
vacation home in the country. It's an eminently logical win-win, and Scott
has taken comfort in that. "I'm not waiting until the ground is shaking to
prepare for the Y2K earthquake," he muses. "I'm going to be ready for an
8.5. I may look foolish if it turns out to be minor, but that's OK. That's
the nature of decisionmaking under uncertainty."

 Kevin Poulsen is a columnist for ZDTV.com .

 America Offline

 ( Inside the Great Blackout of '00 )

 "Most of the nation's power systems must be compliant, or they all go
down, region by region, in one gigantic, rolling blackout," warns Gary
North, keeper of the oldest, most notorious Y2K doomsday site on the Web.
If the lights go out at the dawn of the 21st century, North believes the
failure will be permanent, because the computers that control the grid will
be unfixable if there isn't power to run them. Thereafter, he argues, the
blackout will trigger the collapse of civilization.

 The North American grid is vulnerable to simultaneous failures. Generating
facilities in the US, Canada, and Mexico jointly move power through
high-tension lines that distribute electricity through four regional
interconnections. Within each region, if one facility goes offline, the
others compensate to pick up the slack. But there's not much spare capacity
built into the system; the North American Electric Reliability Council, a
group that is drawing up a timetable of Y2K fixes for the Department of
Energy, admits that if multiple generating facilities fail in one region,
this "may result in stressing the electric system to the point of a
cascading outage over a large area."

 This is how it could happen: A power station is equipped with safety
systems that deactivate steam boilers if they aren't maintained frequently.
Suppose maintenance was last performed in 1999, which an embedded chip
recorded as "99." Now it's the year 2000, so the chip subtracts the old
year, 99, from the new year, 00, and finds, amazingly, that maintenance was
last performed -99 years ago. Clearly this is an error, so the chip shuts
down all the boilers, just to be safe.

 Meanwhile, at another power station, a temperature sensor attached to a
transformer averages its readings over time. On January 1, 2000, the sensor
divides temperature by the year - which is expressed as "00" - and comes up
with an infinite value, triggering another shutdown signal. If small faults
like these knock out a half dozen facilities, the rest will go offline to
protect generators from burning out in a hopeless effort to meet the
growing demand.

 The distribution grid also has weak points. "We have at least 800
different types of embedded controls on the wires," explains Gary Steeves,
director of a Y2K project at TransAlta Utilities, the largest
investor-owned power company in Canada. "Some of the protective devices log
dates of faults in activity and can automatically take a component out of
service." If the same controller has been installed in thousands of remote
locations, and the chips share the same Y2K bug, they'll all fail
simultaneously.

 Most US power utilities refuse to comment on the likelihood of these
disasters, fearing litigation if they offer reassurances that turn out to
be wrong.

 Tim Wilson, publisher of Y2k News, worries about the nearly 9,000 small
regional companies that pull power off the grid at the local level.
"They're clueless as to what to do about Y2K," says Wilson. "They know they
have embedded chips, but they don't know where they are. If there's a power
shortage, rural areas may not be allowed to take power off the grid,
because cities could have a higher priority."

 This suggests an ironic scenario: Remote areas may remain dark for weeks
or months after January 1, 2000, leaving Y2K survivalists waiting in their
isolated cabins for the lights to come back on - while complacent urban
dwellers enjoy uninterrupted service.

 - Charles Platt

Copyright (c) 1993-98 The Condé Nast Publications Inc. All rights reserved.
Compilation Copyright (c) 1994-98 Wired Digital Inc. All rights reserved.
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




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--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Black Unicorn 
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 10:55:57 +0800
To: "Kawika Daguio" 
Message-ID: <199809080254.TAA05443@cyberpass.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 08:24 PM 9/7/98 , Kawika Daguio wrote:
>Bob,
>
>The syllogism at the end of your post is exactly why I have spent the last 
>more than 5 years negotiating and lobbying and why we (FI's) and you 
>(everyone else) shouldn't worry about the impact of government policy on the 
>security of financial communications.  Market (macro and microeconomics 
>plays a bigger role than the government.

So that explains why the U.S. price for e.g., sugar, has exceed the world
price for sugar by 20-30% to as much as 50% for something like 20 years,
right?  Because government efforts at manipulating prices and policies are
useless?  This is, of course, but a single example.

Mr. Hettinga comments:

>Do people out there really think somebody like Gore's going to do a
crypto-amnesty someday?

Please.  Revoking one's citizenship, particularly for a better option- of
which there are many- is hardly the end of the world, and is unlikely to
make one a felon.  It will, in fact, prevent one from becoming one in this
case which is, of course, the point.  Using terms like "Crypto-amnesty" is
just inflammatory.

Mr. Hettinga further comments:

>I expect people who do this crypto-expat stuff are going to get their
>new passports refused at the U.S. border when they visit, and I think that
>things are going to get worse for them for a long time before they get
better.

Of course, this is nonsense.  I know several major U.S. tax offenders who
have several million in liens and civil judgements who return to the United
States on a regular basis, they just don't maintain assets there.  Further,
one of them just recently renewed his U.S. passport at the U.S. consulate
without incident.

Bottom line:  People don't become criminals in the United States because
they leave it.  Consider the ramifications of turning people away at the
border because they are engaged in completely legitimate commercial
practices abroad which are, none the less, undesirable in the United
States?  Christ, the U.S. can't even turn away well known but unconvicted
French Economic Intelligence experts at the border.

I am constantly amused at the attitude of Americans who are convinced that
anyone who lives outside of the "end-all-be-all of the civilized world"
must live in some third world country.  This too is nonsense.  If I were
jurisdiction shopping I'm not sure I'd pick a small African nation, as some
others have, because this state would be extremely unlikely to protect me
from the kind of nastiness that nations are expected to protect citizens
from.  Also, visa-free travel is a pretty big consideration.  Picking a
country not well established in this regard is folly.

Cryptography is the cutting edge of many things, but that situation is
quickly wavering.  It's not long before being a cryptographer is even less
profitable than it is today.  If plying your trade is important, waiting
around for "market forces" to convince the FBI that they have it all wrong
is probably not a good strategy.

Incidentally, if anyone needs assistance contacting the best migration
consultants around, I'd be happy to give you my views and make referrals.

Some of you who want a counterpoint based on something a bit more
substantial than provincial fear mongering might ask after Tim May, who I
recall considered departing the United States but decided against it for a
variety of reasons.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 10:02:59 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: e$: crypto-expatriatism (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199809072208.RAA05578@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 6:08 PM -0400 on 9/7/98, Jim Choate wrote:


> > Ridgeway told Eisenhower at the outset that Vietnam was a multi-million-man
> > war, and Eisenhower stayed out accordingly, throwing a few marginal
>people on
> > the ground to shut Lodge up. It took Testosterone Jack to get a
>Special-Forces
> > hard-on. Eventually he and Desktop Lyndon ended up screwing a pooch
> > instead of the commies.
>
> Balonely, do your research somewhere beside a bar. JFK had no intention of
> sending more troops in and every intention of withdrawing the troops that
> were there. There are two sources you can look at to verify this. The first
> is the troop count over time and the internal presidential memos to the
> Chiefs of Staff. Had JFK not been shot there would have been NO US troops in
> Vietnam by the end of '64.
>
> LBJ is the nit-wit who crewed the proverbial pooch.

I've got an idea. Go read Halverstam's "The Best and the Brightest", Jim,
and then tell me what bar I did my research in.

Cheers :-),
Bob Hettinga
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ryan Lackey 
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 10:23:10 +0800
To: "Kawika Daguio" 
Subject: Re: e$: crypto-expatriatism
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



(note trimmed distribution ... cryptography certainly isn't appropriate
for any of this, and I doubt if dcsb is...)

Kawika Daguio said:
> I would prefer that folks kept us out of their fields of fire in the various > skirmishes occuring during the cryptocrusades and left us to manage the 
> policy for and the security of our space for ourselves and our customers.  

Banks and other financial intermediaries do not exist in a vacuum.  While
I agree that the banking/financial applications do drive the policy in
this field (I believe both you and Bob believe this), I do not agree that
the existing banks and financial intermediaries drive the policy.
Fundamentally, there are some changes which make old institutions irrelevant,
even if their functions are taken over by new institutions.  For a long time,
the Church handled intermediation between military powers.  Now, it's the UN.
Perhaps tomorrow, it will be the mutual fund managers, transnationals,
and news agencies.  

We all seem to agree that the government is irrelevant in the grand
scheme of things.

While I may be presuming incorrectly, I feel that the
ABA represents the accidental existing institutions, not the essence of 
financial institutions.  Thus, when you say you have spent 5 years
negotiating and lobbying, I presume you are doing so to allow the
existing institutions to fit into the new future.  You are not necessarily
helping the new future come into being in the essential sense by helping
existing institutions come to grips with essential reality.

I would argue that the reality of electronic commerce/cryptography, and
its effect upon the power relationship of individual vs. group, needs
no apologists, and indeed, no apologist can help it.  It is a fundamentally
new reality.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Aardvaak Connect Free" 
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 05:34:23 +0800
To: 
Subject: Your subscription request :cypherpunks@toad.com
Message-ID: <001ff2318210798WEB@www.telinco.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 11:08:29 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: A question about gas warfare in San Fran in '66... (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809080324.WAA07929@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 19:34:29 -0700
> From: "James A. Donald" 
> Subject: Re: A question about gas warfare in San Fran in '66...

> I assume that this is one of these anonymous source things. =20

Actualy no, Alex was showing some documents with government seals and such. I
haven't had a chance to contact him so far but intend to. The only way I
have of getting a hold of him is to call his talk show or his access tv
show. His next access show is tomorrow (Tue.) nite.

The gist was that some group within the US gov. did a test in some area of
San Fran. and several deaths occurred. It wasn't done with the knowledge or
permission of the Cali. or San Fran. officials as described by Alex to date.

As I find more info I'll pass it along.

[bunch of other peripheral drivel deleted]


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 13:40:58 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Tax silliness
In-Reply-To: <199809080254.TAA05443@cyberpass.net>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Folks, I generally restrain myself from passing on all the various news
stories I see or read.

But tonight Fox News is reporting that the IRS has said it may seek to
assess "gift taxes" if the guy who recovered Mark McGwire's 61st home
baseball gives the ball back to Mark McGwire.

(The ball is said to have a street value, to museums or collectors, of
$250K or so. The 62nd home run ball, the one which breaks Maris' record,
will supposedly be worth more than a million bucks.)

So, the shmuck who got this ball faces taxes on an unrealized gain if he
never sells the ball. And he gets taxed if he hands the ball back to
McGwire.

He makes no money, but pays 30-40% of some theoretical value in taxes.

Those fuckers in D. C. need to be put out of our misery.

--Tim May

"The tree of liberty must be watered periodically with the blood of
tyrants...."
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist              | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 07:06:41 +0800
To: TSGman@earthlink.net
Subject: Re: KRAP is at it in the IETF
In-Reply-To: <002701bdda9f$84ec8430$89bffad0@tsg-laptop>
Message-ID: <199809072248.XAA08942@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Todd S. Glassey writes on dbs@philodox.com (digital bearer settlement) list:
> Let me start with the disclaimer since I am going to vehemently disagree
> with you - These are my own opinions and in no way reflect my companies or
> our clients Opinions, etc. etc. etc. -

[What company do you work for?  You disclaim about your "company" and
"clients" without mention of who they are?  (I like to know who the
GAKkers are, are you with securecomptuing.com also?)]

> So William - IMHO, you are missing the point totally. The IETF is an
> A-Political Organization investing in the development of technical standards
> to accomplish various networking services. As to the issue of Politic vs.
> Technology, by its actions alone, KRAP's demonstrated agenda with the IETF
> is purely technical and whether it is in furtherance of its external
> political agenda is really irrelevant to the IETF as and its established
> process as a whole.

I understood it this way: that IETF policy is not allow political
considerations to weaken or otherwise damage security functions in
IETF standards.  eg. No weak key lengths for to satisfy local
government politics etc.

Read RFC 1984.  I quote:

: KEYS SHOULD NOT BE REVEALABLE
: 
:    The security of a modern cryptosystem rests entirely on the secrecy
:    of the keys.  Accordingly, it is a major principle of system design
:    that to the extent possible, secret keys should never leave their
:    user's secure environment.  Key escrow implies that keys must be
:    disclosed in some fashion, a flat-out contradiction of this
:    principle.  Any such disclosure weakens the total security of the
:    system.
: 
: DATA RECOVERY
: 
:    Sometimes escrow systems are touted as being good for the customer
:    because they allow data recovery in the case of lost keys. However,
:    it should be up to the customer to decide whether they would prefer
:    the more secure system in which lost keys mean lost data, or one in
:    which keys are escrowed to be recovered when necessary.  Similarly,
:    keys used only for conversations (as opposed to file storage) need
:    never be escrowed.  And a system in which the secret key is stored by
:    a government and not by the data owner is certainly not practical for
:    data recovery.

This quoted point is kind of relevant here:

 "keys used only for conversations (as opposed to file storage) need
  never be escrowed"

Now we move on to your GAK apologist arguments...

> Remember also that it was the Government that was the primary
> subsidizer of said same network and everything that evolved the old
> 56k ARPANET into what the Public Internet is today.

"Government" is composed of public servants.  This citizen-unit
doesn't want to fund spooks to spy on himself.

> The world is changing into a global society and the rules about
> personal freedom are evolving with it... Not everyone is going to
> like them but the facts are what they are and IMHO - personally I
> wonder more how some local constituency would respond to the
> invasion of their personal privacy when some "pervert terrorist"
> parks a recently acquired nuke or Bio-toxic Weapon from the now

Oh give us a break!  You already admitted that terrorists are going to
use whatever crypto they want whether or not governments succeed in
ramming GAK down our throats.

> defunct Russian Arsenal in their backyard and pushes the #$%^&*
> button. If losing absolute anonymity is the cost of better
> safeguarding oneself and family from threats like these, what the
> heck. Its a very small cost to pay.

Perhaps you would think that video cams in all the rooms in your house
(with feeds back to NSA) would be a good idea also,...  well you
install them, at your cost, and leave us out of your eavesdropping
plans, ta very much.

Adam




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Hugh Daniel 
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 14:54:57 +0800
To: Declan McCullagh 
Subject: Re: Cypherpunks HyperArchive
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199809080651.XAA00528@road.toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



  I did not get a chance to download the great archive Ryan did, lets
hope it's on the disk there still, otherwise it has to be rebuilt by
someone.

		||ugh
		hugh@toad.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 07:05:47 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: (fwd) Re: KRAP is at it in the IETF
Message-ID: <199809072253.XAA08953@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




A GAKker breaks cover on dbs list as a result of William Geigers heads
up on the issue... The GAK apologists are very thin on the ground in
public discussion forums generally, so it is nice to see the odd one
speak up.  Seems like they are too busy taking government handouts to
implement KRAP to actually own up to their misdeeds in public,
generally.

Adam

======================================================================
From: "Todd S. Glassey" 
To: "William H. Geiger III" , 
Cc: , "JeffreySchiller" ,
	"MarcusLeech" ,
	"Robert G. Moskowitz" , 
Subject: RE: KRAP is at it in the IETF
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 13:38:50 -0700

William,
Let me start with the disclaimer since I am going to vehemently disagree
with you - These are my own opinions and in no way reflect my companies or
our clients Opinions, etc. etc. etc. -

So William - IMHO, you are missing the point totally. The IETF is an
A-Political Organization investing in the development of technical standards
to accomplish various networking services. As to the issue of Politic vs.
Technology, by its actions alone, KRAP's demonstrated agenda with the IETF
is purely technical and whether it is in furtherance of its external
political agenda is really irrelevant to the IETF as and its established
process as a whole.

>From my vantage point, the real issue herein is your personal/moral standing
with the dissolving of anonymity through Key Recovery and Government's
ability to look at data that flows over a network. Remember also that it was
the Government that was the primary subsidizer of said same network and
everything that evolved the old 56k ARPANET into what the Public Internet is
today.

As another side issue, the other potentially-viable argument is that
ISAKMP/IKE is so far along in its process of becoming a standard, that
adding a late draft impedes the value of the work already done - Essentially
that these folks  (KRAP) have essentially slipped a whammy onto the stack.
Is it your view that this implies that because of this later posting that
the material will be exempt from the general scrutiny that the previous
components of ISAKMP/IKE have been through - I don't think so... This crowd
loves to do the Pit-Bull thang and shred the submitted concepts to glean the
technical truth therein. If this is the issue then the answer is to work
within the existing framework and to submit a public motion to the WG to
freeze the ISAKMP last call efforts so that they exclude the new draft until
such time as it (the GAK extensions) can undergo further scrutiny.

As to the issue of the addition itself being out of line because of its late
entrance into the standards arena relative to the last call and all that-
Again, I disagree as to what and how - There are numerous "standard
processes" in place that allow for this as well and that here in the real
world, use of this ability is a very common practice. Look for instance at
what happened to the last TAX REFORM effort with the addition of Senator
Moyniham's SS1706 Rider, or as another example look at what congress as a
whole did with the HIPAA legislation (http://www.hcfa.gov/regs/hipaacer.htm)
and its embedded "legal penalties" for unauthorized  disclosure of health
data. Since this case is specific to the bulk distribution of data, it
really applies directly to IT Directors and their staff. heck, imagine that
your insurance Co.'s or hospital's  IT folks could actually go to jail by
the statute set here. Again here we are at the bottom line and if this is
the thing you are objecting too then you need to object to the process not
the event itself.

As to the perversion commentary specifically... perversion is a moral issue
and is not addressed by the IETF rules (RFC2026 in particular). My
suggestion is that if you feel this is a problem that you address it at the
POISSON WG level rather than in IPSEC or PKIX since it is a process problem,
and that under the currently in-place operating rules, this thing, the
filing of a new proposed component of the ISAKMP protocol is OK to do.

- ---

Don't get me wrong, as it happens I too believe that Key Recovery is futile
effort for the government, not because it doesn't have a need for this type
of capability, but because they didn't act fast enough and the "cat is
already out of the bag". So any efforts to pull this one off will most
likely be futile and will definitely not be cost effective for normal
ECommerce operations let alone personal communications. BTW - The reality in
the Intelligence Community World is that for the surveillance of the
big-league terrorists, dope dealers, and the like, key recovery is useless
since because they are so well funded and their access to technologies is
such that they (the bad guys) can and will employ advanced technologies to
get around whatever the NSA/DSIA/DoC/DoJ put in place to thwart them. As an
example of this the Leopard's (sort of the Bolivian Govt.'s DEA Field
Agents, et al.) found that when they attacked the labs of the Median Cartel
they were out gunned and technologically overpowered to the point that
without the US Military intervention they would have no possibility of
thwarting these activities. Draw your own conclusions.

As a point of social commentary, I understand and hear your point, but if
this kind of process "invasion" as you have put it was such an issue then
how come there was so little push back was done against the "Communications
Assistance for Law Enforcement Act" (CALEA). I think that as a whole the
people against the KRAP initiatives are there because of the cost and
overhead issues, not the personal freedom ones. Thus it becomes a business
issue and not a human one.

The world is changing into a global society and the rules about personal
freedom are evolving with it... Not everyone is going to like them but the
facts are what they are and  IMHO - personally I wonder more how some local
constituency would respond to the invasion of their personal privacy when
some "pervert terrorist" parks a recently acquired nuke or Bio-toxic Weapon
from the now defunct Russian Arsenal in their backyard and pushes the #$%^&*
button. If losing absolute anonymity is the cost of better safeguarding
oneself and family from threats like these, what the heck. Its a very small
cost to pay.

My personal feeling is that since I have made the decision to live in and
work with modern society as a whole, that I must follow the edicts that
evolving technologies and social values/morals put in place by and for us as
a whole. Otherwise our choice is real simple - If you don't like the rules,
then don't play the game. Move out to the backwoods and stay out of society
as a whole.

I don't mean to be a putz by this, but come on... "a perversion". This isn't
the place for that kind of morality issue!.

Todd

> -----Original Message-----
> From: dbs@philodox.com [mailto:dbs@philodox.com]On Behalf Of William H.
> Geiger III
> Sent: Monday, September 07, 1998 1:24 AM
> To: dbs@philodox.com
> Subject: KRAP is at it in the IETF
>
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> Hello,
>
> It has come to my attention that the KRAP (key recovery alliance program)
> has submitted an I-D (internet draft) to the IETF for adding GAK
> (government access to keys) to the IPSEC protocols:
>
> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-rfced-exp-markham-00.txt
>
> ISAKMP Key Recovery Extensions
> 
>
> 7. AUTHOR INFORMATION
>
>    Tom Markham
>    Secure Computing Corp
>    2675 Long Lake Road
>    Roseville, MN 55113   USA
>
>    Phone: 651.628.2754,    Fax:   651.628.2701
>    EMail: tom_markham@securecomputing.com
>
>
> I consider this a perversion of the standards process of the IETF to
> advance a political agenda which must be stopped at all cost.
>
> Below are the e-mail addresses of some people that you should write
> (politely) expressing your objections to any such additions to the
> protocols:
>
> IPSEC Chairs:
>
> Theodore Ts'o 
> Robert Moskowitz 
>
> Security Area Directors:
>
> Jeffrey Schiller 
> Marcus Leech 
>
> As I mentioned before, be polite. These people are not the ones proposing
> GAK be added to the IPSEC protocols. They have put a lot of time and
> effort in forwarding the cause for strong encryption. They should be made
> aware of the communities objections to these attempts by KRAP.
>
> Thanks,
>
> - --
> - ---------------------------------------------------------------
> William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
> Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0
>
> Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
> PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
> OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
> - ---------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Tag-O-Matic: It's OS/2, Jim, but not OS/2 as we know it.
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: 2.6.3a-sha1
> Charset: cp850
> Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000
>
> iQCVAwUBNfOVk49Co1n+aLhhAQFJwwP+O4vrZVKFpOG8vCHFwbDuPIv/99AhBnKF
> RK/Ikc5y2gGKq9hfxkTb4o77YUrDaEGkYUPHk+ZC57Oag0Lu1v6W1EAbQ5T4RpzH
> JWYXOonQmbqw5rH0h6brzqrH3ep9Ej9DR0gv4mGgIfSNlJSUu6TWO5ZHXKWiE4yy
> 5flH0Ngg/TI=
> =EzNL
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
> Tag-O-Matic: Speed Kills - Use Windows!
>
>
>
------- End of forwarded message -------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 07:32:13 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: free anonymous dial up in the UK
In-Reply-To: <001ff2318210798WEB@www.telinco.net>
Message-ID: <199809072328.AAA09363@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




If any of you are in the UK anytime, you can get free dialup using the
following recently posted details:

> Login = FREE256974
> Password = cypherpunk
> 
> To connect FREE to 33.6Kbps access or 28.8Kbps please use 0845 662 1009
> To connect FREE to K56Flex access please use 0845 662 1109
> To connect FREE to 56K X2 access please use 0845 662 1209
> To connect FREE to 64K ISDN access please use 0845 662 1309

In the UK local calls are not free (about 1p/min offpeak).  The ISP
for the above service (www.aardvaak.co.uk) gets it's income via a
commission on the phone calls to their dialup numbers.

(Most ISPs in the UK charge 10 UKP/month, and you have to pay the
local call on top).

Anyway the interesting part is the degree of anonymity it gives, as
they don't need payment from you, they don't need to know who you are.

Also there is www.freenet.co.uk, they offer pop3 mail accounts, and
usenet access, but if you already have an ISP you probably don't want
all that.

Adam




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 13:52:14 +0800
To: Tim May 
Subject: Re: Tax silliness
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199809080548.BAA06556@domains.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In , on 09/07/98 
   at 10:39 PM, Tim May  said:

>Those fuckers in D. C. need to be put out of our misery.

I agree 110%. This is something I have though long and hard on and have
come to the conclusion that a single strike to take out DC would only lead
to the establishment of a military dictatorship (though I must admit that
watching those bastards fry would almost be worth it ). Eventually
some form of democracy would be restored (but freedoms would be much less
than what we have now) as it is simpler to control the sheeple if they
think they are running things.

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: Speed Kills - Use Windows!

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3a-sha1
Charset: cp850
Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000

iQCVAwUBNfTHLY9Co1n+aLhhAQE3mQP+NjiXyWzR20LJJu5KzsHIKwcIaDoxWcrj
O4bn/N2d2SmUQVMkIC7jFXlLpzGQ6COMTK1fAgYtlOe4dk6B4sC4TYv68D8xSix4
vaTC6z8kaF6ZojY3i9hANQhw7aBH7D5bfco+JBtfpwYWIcMOIvQ/hHAJOooPeyPa
w7YHYljne6k=
=fBi0
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 16:06:01 +0800
To: Tim May 
Subject: Re: Tax silliness
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199809080800.BAA17066@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



admittedly I'm not an expert on the subject,
but maybe the fan hands it back to mcguire for
authentication--for him to sign it, and return it to
the fan who then owns it. as far as collectors
items, a baseball can't be authenticated otherwise. 
I presume mcguire would have to write something
about "my 62nd home run ball"..

but your point is well taken. the IRS is getting
out of control. frankly I think they are like a huge
crowbar or vice that is slowly pressing down on the population.
all the loopholes are being removed from tax laws,
slowly, quietly. people who had no problem as independent
contractors (such as caddies) now get harassed by
the IRS. also, waiters & bartenders, who never made
much money, got a lot of flack over tips around the
late 80's.

eventually perhaps we'll have one world currency, and absolutely
no means of exchanging it other than through government
tracked mechanisms, all subject to taxes. 
that does seem to be the direction the world is heading.

I've written before on "alternative money systems". no
one here understood my points very well, but I still think
there is major potential for freedom through them. a sort
of 21st century tea party. there are some "barter cards"
that are taking off in various localities. these are
essentially tax-avoidance barter systems..  I hope they
catch on and force a showdown with politicians. eventually
the control freaks will be obvious and will not be
able to hide their tyranny. hopefully. the thing about
the american public though, is that sometimes they stay
asleep & give consent even when the tyrants emerge obvious.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: HyperReal-Anon 
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 11:00:42 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: h
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Mon, 7 Sep 1998 CRBREW9802@aol.com wrote:

> 
> how did u do it
> 
> 

Usually, it is done as follows:

1) Find a willing partner. If you're a Democrat, find a subordinate or an
intern.
2) Make sure your partner wears appropriate attire. If you're a Democrat,
a blue dress is appropriate.
3) Unzip your pants.
4) Tell your partner to "kiss it."
5) When you ejaculate, make sure your partner does something suitable with
the ejaculate. If you're a Democrat, ensure that she dribbles it over the
dress.
6) If you're a Democrat, ensure that she saves the dress, doesn't have it
cleaned, and then turns it over to the FBI for DNA testing.

For our AOL friend, the following has been converted into the Language of
the AOLholes:

i) find a wiling partner if your a democrat find a subordinate or a
intern...
2) make sure your partner wears right clothing if you're a democrat a blue
dress is right........
3... unzipp you pants
4) tell you partner to kiss it...
5-when u cum make sure your bitch does something with the jiz if your a
democrat make sure she drops it in the dress man...
6) If you'r a democrat make sure that she saves da dress...and doesn't
have it cleaned...and gives it to the FIB for RNA testing...

LamenessMonger





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Alan Olsen 
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 02:55:52 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: Government Regulation & Scienctific Research
In-Reply-To: <199809071711.MAA04033@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Mon, 7 Sep 1998, Jim Choate wrote:

> Because of the changes in national governments and their increasing desire
> to regulate their citizenry and their economies according to flawed economic
> and social dogma we will see the following:

I have a little bit of a different take on things...

I expect the first world to start to take after the East German model.

-- Those who are precieved as being a possible threat will be
marginalized, jailed, forced to flee, or co-opted.

-- A large portion of the population will be devoted towards control of
the population.  (Either in law enforcement, paid snitches, propaganda, or
similar activities.)

-- Much of the Government's budget will be devoted to citizen control.
(More will be spent on fighting internal threats than defending from
external threats.)  And since "The imposition of order = the escalation of
disorder", it will only spiral downwards.

In 50 years I expect that the creative citizenry will either be
underground, fled, or no longer participating in the active discorse of
the society.  All of the life will be sucked out of the population in
order to fight the "Scapegoats of the Week/Month/Year/Century". 

It will only fall apart when we reach a level where no one wants to live
here any more and it falls apart from internal system failure and
hemoraging.

alan@ctrl-alt-del.com | Note to AOL users: for a quick shortcut to reply
Alan Olsen            | to my mail, just hit the ctrl, alt and del keys.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "James Lucier" 
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 15:58:32 +0800
To: "Tim May" 
Subject: RE: What we are Fighting
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <000201bddb17$23206be0$08b24e0c@oemcomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Actually, Tim, the way the Men in Black work is that they keep their bans on
domestic crypto under wraps until the last moment and then get them adopted
with no public hearings in the crisis atmosphere of a heavily lobbied markup
session at some critical point in the legislative calendar.  They know that
the more people actually understand what they are up to, the less they are
likely to get what they want.  But do not underestimate the power of having
useful stooges like Jerry Solomon and the shamefully clueless Jon Kyl in
positions where they can do last-minute switcheroo on bills that are being
moved to the floor.  One of the major reasons why we didn't get the
Goodlatte bill on the floor this year is that moving it to the Floor would
have resulted in putting Oxley Manton or the House Intelligence Committee
bill on the Floor at the same time.

-----Original Message-----
From:	owner-cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
[mailto:owner-cypherpunks@cyberpass.net] On Behalf Of Tim May
Sent:	Monday, September 07, 1998 8:55 AM
To:	Declan McCullagh
Cc:	cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject:	Re: What we are Fighting

At 6:53 AM -0700 9/7/98, Declan McCullagh wrote:

>There is, offically, a proposal on the table to limit speech within the
>U.S. by restricting sale, manufacture, distribution, import of non-GAK'd
>crypto. A House committee approved that one year ago.
>

I'd forgotten about that little one. Of course, it has not gone anywhere
(no Senate version or committee markup, right?), so I'm not yet ready to
say there's official action on its way. And, fortunately, the session is
over but for the shouting about Clinton and his cigars.

--Tim May

"The tree of liberty must be watered periodically with the blood of
tyrants...."
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist              | black markets, collapse of governments.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: promo@printing.com
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 16:52:19 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Auto Reply to your message ...
Message-ID: <35F478A400000217@mail.agtinc.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

  -----  The following text is an automated response to your message  -----
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: fsigs@relay.lg.co.kr
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 07:02:32 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: FutureSignals
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



This message is being sent to you in compliance with the 
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further transmissions to you by the sender of this email 
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 00:35:42 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Citizenship silliness.  Re: e$: crypto-expatriatism
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 7:26 AM -0700 9/8/98, Ryan Lackey wrote:
>> [gun control laws in other countries being even worse than the US]
>
>Does anyone know of any countries with more reasonable gun laws than the
>US?  I vaguely think Israel and Switzerland are better, at least for citizens.
>It is one of the major problems I have with Anguilla -- "guns are bad".
>I miss my M1A.

Don't automatically assume Israel is good for gun ownership. If you're an
untermenschen, a schwarzen, a sand nigger, an Arab, you can't legally own a
gun. Unless you're one of the Trustees, i.e., a deputized member of the
PLO's military or police.

The Chosen People are of course encouraged to have fully automatic weapons.

(This is not a detailed elaboration of Israeli gun laws. Maybe even some
Jews are forbidden to have guns. Israel has a lot of laws. But I know that
"settlers" carry Uzi and suchlike openly, while Arabs in the same lands are
forbidden from even owning shotguns or .22s.)

Switzerland is also not what many think it is. While able-bodied men who
served in the military have weapons issued to them that they keep at home,
this does not necessarily imply gun ownership nirvana. For one thing, all
the guns are tracked. For another, visitors or temporary residents face the
usual surveillance state controls.

Don't count on there being Gun Show and Swap Meets, where folks trade .45s
and 9s and Uzis and AR-15s and M1As without benefit of notifying the
Supreme Ruler and His Minions. (Such as our Second Amendment says we can
do, until the commies took over in these Beknighted States.)

>I mostly have two classes of guns I'd like to have: air pistol, for
>practice and competition, and military-style semiautomatic rifles, for
>practice and long-term defense.  Self-defense handguns and shotguns
>are somewhat optional.

See above. Let us know if you find anyplace in the Caribbean which actually
allows these kinds of guns to be owned by the sheeple.


--Tim May

"The tree of liberty must be watered periodically with the blood of
tyrants...."
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist              | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 23:27:53 +0800
To: Ryan Lackey 
Subject: Re: Citizenship silliness.  Re: e$: crypto-expatriatism
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199809081522.LAA14823@domains.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In , on 09/08/98 
   at 10:26 AM, Ryan Lackey  said:

>Does anyone know of any countries with more reasonable gun laws than the
>US?  I vaguely think Israel and Switzerland are better, at least for
>citizens. It is one of the major problems I have with Anguilla -- "guns
>are bad". I miss my M1A.

Well back when I lived in Israel during the early '80s everyone had guns,
and a lots of them. My landlord had a small armory in his bombshelter
(something ever home has). I do not know what the gun laws are there
concerning non-military citizens, but considering that everyone is in the
military this doesn't seem to be much of an issue (unless you are a
Palestinian).

Nice country to live, good climate (comparable to southern California),
friendly people, civilized country, strong European influence to the
culture (for obvious reasons), parliamentary form of government. Inflation
was *very* bad when I was there (I think only Italy & Argentina was worse)
hopefully this has improved.

I left at the end of '82 before all this crap with the Palestinians
started. I don't know what shape basic liberties have taken since I have
left. I imagine that after 50 years of continual war things are a little
more restrictive than what most Americans are accustom to.

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: Windows: The CP/M of the future!

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 01:42:58 +0800
To: Mok-Kong Shen 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980908101154.00853210@m7.sprynet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 11:01 AM 9/7/98 +0100, Mok-Kong Shen wrote:
>Robert Hettinga wrote:
>
>Let's wait and see whether AES will be genuinely exportable.
>
>M. K. Shen
>

Surely you jest.  The head AES honcho will send you (in .de) the CD of the
english
specs, but not the one with the code.  Like it matters.

They will continue playing games and misbehaving until punished.








  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Xena - Warrior Princess 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 01:36:58 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: "info on spooks"
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





The Internet Oracle has pondered your question deeply.
Your question was:

> 
> Maybe *you* can help, Mighty Oracle.
> 
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 20:19:26 EDT
> From: XxxxXxxx@aol.com
> To: cypherpunks@toad.com
> Subject: tell me
> 
>  hola and good tidings 
>   send some info on spooks please 
>   i will be grateful
> 

And in response, thus spake the Oracle:

}
}   In a way, you have come to the right place, Supplicant.  Some of my best
} friends are spooks.  Generally, they like to be known as "The Intangible
} Ones", but that's a bit of pretentiousness on their parts.  "Ghoul",
} "ghost", "spirit", and "weird white smudge on film" all are appropriate
} names.
}   Some of their favorite haunts, if you will, tend to be different than
} what current culture dictates.  For example, spooks will not hang out in
} old houses.  Too many cobwebs, bugs, and general naughtiness.  Spooks are
} very sensitive creatures, and prefer to relax in libraries, arboretums,
} Newt Gingrich's bedroom -- places where nothing ever happens.
}   There's not much else to spooks, dear Supplicant.  They're really quite
} nice and friendly, and I recommend you make them a big steak dinner every
} once in a while.  Leave it out on the table, and make sure you tell me
} your address so I can come by... er, so I can notify the spooks.
} 
} You owe the Oracle some new potatoes to go with that steak.
} 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ryan Lackey 
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 22:32:28 +0800
To: Tim May 
Subject: Re: Citizenship silliness.  Re: e$: crypto-expatriatism
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> [gun control laws in other countries being even worse than the US]

Does anyone know of any countries with more reasonable gun laws than the
US?  I vaguely think Israel and Switzerland are better, at least for citizens.
It is one of the major problems I have with Anguilla -- "guns are bad".
I miss my M1A.

I mostly have two classes of guns I'd like to have: air pistol, for
practice and competition, and military-style semiautomatic rifles, for
practice and long-term defense.  Self-defense handguns and shotguns
are somewhat optional.

A country like Switzerland seems ideal, at least as a citizen, given
the reserve requirements.  Mmmm, a nice Hammerli air pistol and
a shiny new HK PSG-1 would make me forget about the M1A I left behind, very
quickly.  Especially with a good daylight scope and an IR scope...  Only
$30k or so for the package with 10k rounds of national match ammo.
-- 
Ryan Lackey
rdl@mit.edu
http://sof.mit.edu/rdl/		<-- down




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 01:42:05 +0800
To: remailer@replay.com
Subject: Re: Cypherpunks HyperArchive
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980908103600.008469f0@m7.sprynet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



::
Anon-To: Ryan Lackey , Tim May 


At 03:27 PM 9/7/98 -0400, Ryan Lackey wrote:
>Anguilla is actually a pretty reasonable choice as far as a place to
>spend a few years away from the US -- 7 000 people, many with a strong


Jul 7 1999

The US today launched a cruise missile strike against Anguilla, 
where Osama bin "Blowback" Laden was known, according to US National
Security officials, to be investing in an online gambling casino.



--Count of Monte Carlo









  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 01:58:54 +0800
To: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Subject: Re: wired on y2k
In-Reply-To: <199809080235.TAA23415@netcom13.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <35F56F1A.652C@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> Scott has decided
> that the only real fix for the Y2K problem may be to pack up and move to
> this patch of land 75 miles from his San Diego home. "In the next year or
> so," he predicts, "the most common cocktail party chatter will be, 'What
> are you doing to prepare for Y2K?' But by then, it will be too late."
> 
Water? Met a reactor designer from Los Alamos once who lived in some
super but isolated place in the Sangre De Christos. He had to drill some
3K ft for water. VERY EXPENSIVE. Ever seen the Peoples Broadcasting
Service piece about the "Cadillac Desert"? Water is just another utility
here. All automated.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 02:44:24 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Citizenship silliness.  Re: e$: crypto-expatriatism
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 11:19 AM -0700 9/8/98, William H. Geiger III wrote:

>Yes Tim, we all know your anti-Israel position and your sympathy for the
>Palistinians even though they are in the position that they are due to
>their own actions.
>
>They started the war, got their asses beat and have been whining about it
>for the past 50 years.

We'll see who's whining after 2 million Zionists are consumed in the holy
fire that sweeps through Haifa and Tel Aviv.

Some Jews learned nothing from WWII.

Ironic that our Cypherpunks technology, including remailers, will help the
forces of liberation coordinate their attacks. On this point, Freeh and
Reno are completely correct, as I have been saying for years.


--Tim May

"The tree of liberty must be watered periodically with the blood of
tyrants...."
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist              | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: your name 
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 17:59:23 +0800
To: fight-censorship@vorlon.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Child-Molesting Forger's Chilling Confession!!!1!
Message-ID: <199809080955.LAA16121@frnext1a.fr.bosch.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Encrypted_Message=On 4 May 1998 02:57:07 GMT, in article <6ijaq3$bb1@news1.panix.com>,
 Information Security (= Guy Polis ) wrote:
#   Guy Polis (guy@panix.com, eviljay@bway.net) is a pedophile child
#   molester who was fired from his consulting position at Salomon Brothers
#   after he was caught masturbating in his cubicle at the child pornography
#   JPEGs that he downloaded from the Internet.

The poster's been awful quiet lately - did the feds arrest him?
Browser=Netscape:Mozilla/3.01 [de]C-NSCP  (WinNT; I)
Remedy=Tell the world




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 02:21:14 +0800
To: Tim May 
Subject: Re: Citizenship silliness.  Re: e$: crypto-expatriatism
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199809081814.OAA17367@domains.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In , on 09/08/98 
   at 09:24 AM, Tim May  said:

>>
>>Does anyone know of any countries with more reasonable gun laws than the
>>US?  I vaguely think Israel and Switzerland are better, at least for citizens.
>>It is one of the major problems I have with Anguilla -- "guns are bad".
>>I miss my M1A.

>Don't automatically assume Israel is good for gun ownership. If you're an
>untermenschen, a schwarzen, a sand nigger, an Arab, you can't legally own
>a gun. Unless you're one of the Trustees, i.e., a deputized member of the
>PLO's military or police.

>The Chosen People are of course encouraged to have fully automatic
>weapons.

Yes Tim, we all know your anti-Israel position and your sympathy for the
Palistinians even though they are in the position that they are due to
their own actions.

They started the war, got their asses beat and have been whining about it
for the past 50 years.

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: OS/2...Opens up Windows, shuts up Gates.

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Ross Wright" 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 04:35:06 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: (Fwd) Radio Activists March on DC, Oct 4 & 5
Message-ID: <199809082033.NAA28205@bsd.adnetsol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



------- Forwarded Message Follows -------
Date:          Mon, 7 Sep 1998 06:48:58 -0700 (PDT)
From:          gregruggiero@earthlink.net (New York Free Media Alliance)
Subject:       Radio Activists March on DC, Oct 4 & 5
To:            iaj-futuremedia@igc.org

Dear Supporters of Community Media and Free Speech,

You may be aware that the Federal Communications Commission
has recently intensified it's assault on unlicensed micropower
radio stations.  In response to this campaign and the government's
longstanding ban on low-power radio, a national movement has emerged
to proliferate microbroadcasting, and win constitutional protection to
broadcast at the community level.

We invite you to  show your support for
community access to the airwaves. Join us in Washington, DC
on Sunday, October 4  for a micropower radio conference,
and on Monday October 5 for a march on FCC and  NAB headquarters.

Workshops & information will be offered on how to start a radio
station and acquire the necessary equipment.

Please pass this on to people who might be interested, especially
those who don't have access to the internet.

See you in Washington.

Thanks,

Greg Ruggiero
New York Free Media Alliance
http://artcon.rutgers.edu/papertiger/nyfma/

"Where there is even a pretense of democracy, communications are at
its heart." --Noam Chomsky


--------------------------------------------

SHOWDOWN AT THE FCC!

 FREE RADIO ACTIVISTS MARCH ON WASHINGTON TO
 CONFRONT THE GLOBAL  MEDIA MONOPOLY AND
THEIR MARIONETTES IN GOVERNMENT!

Sunday, October 4, 1998
Monday, October 5, 1998
Washington, DC

Calling all media activists, microbroadcasters and people for a
democratic media:

 Come to DC for the first national mobilization for free radio.
 Microbroadcasters from around the country will gather for
 two days to share radio skills, organize alliances, speak out
 to the media and protest at the FCC and NAB buildings,
 culminating in a live broadcast straight into the offices of the
people working so hard to shut us down. Free Radio Berkeley, Radio
Mutiny, Steal This Radio and other microstations have all broadcast
live in public and challenged the FCC to shut them down in the light
of day, in front of the press and the Feds have never dared to show
their face- this time, we're going to take it right to their doorstep
and tell them that if they're so sure that their dumb law is worth
enforcing, then the Chairman should come down from the 8th floor and
put the cuffs on us himself.

There will also be workshops to help new folks start
stations, appointments will be made to lobby congress
people, and press events will be held to show the true,
diverse face of the microbroadcasting movement.

Schedule

                       Sunday,
                       10-12 workshops (to be announced)
                       12-1 lunch
                       1-3 workshops (to be announced)
                       3-5 speakout
                       5-6:30 dinner
                       7pm party/puppet making for demonstration
  Monday

 10:30 am MARCH AND PUPPET PARADE
  starts at Dupont Circle, goes to the Federal
 Communications Commission building, and then marches
on to confront the National Association of Broadcasters.
During these protests, we will flip the giant free speech
switches, turn on our transmitters and strike a blow against
the meta-marionettes: A giant puppet of General Electric
and Corporate America, which will in turn control a slightly
smaller puppet of the National Association of Broadcasters,
which in turn will operate a smaller puppet of the FCC,
which in turn will be trying to stamp out microbroadcasters
and our free speech rights. These demonstrations will also
include a number of sneaky surprises that are so cool that
we can't even mention them here!

1:30pm

meetings set up with people's congressional
representatives for lobbying

4pm press event:

What Can a Black Panther, a Free Market Think Tank
Policy Analyst, an Anarchist Feminist,   A Radio Engineer,
A Public Health Worker and a Discount
Store Owner Agree Upon? IT'S TIME TO LEGALIZE
MICROBROADCASTING!

 So what's YOUR excuse not to come to the most
excellent weekend of mayhem ever? Nothing. Then good-
we'll see you there.

Bring a sleeping bag, cameras and recording devices,
vehicles, some money to help this all come off, questions
for the experts on pirate station operations, puppet
materials, signs and banners, transmitters, AND ALL OF
YOUR FRIENDS!

contact info:
email: petetridish@hotmail.com
phone:Pete tri Dish 215-474-6459 or
          Amanda at   202-518-5644
                       p.o.box 179,
                       College Park, MD 20741-0179

**************************************************

                                             NEW YORK
Media for Change           <<< FREE MEDIA >>>     Changing the Media
                                              ALLIANCE

                             listserve: nyfreemedia@tao.ca
                               voicemail: (212) 969-8636
           website: http://artcon.rutgers.edu/papertiger/nyfma

**************************************************



=-=-=-=-=-=-
Ross Wright
King Media: Bulk Sales of Software Media and Duplication Services
http://ross.adnetsol.com
Voice: (408) 259-2795




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Fisher Mark 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 04:02:53 +0800
To: zooko@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: Zooko on JYA, cpunks, and surveillance (was: Re: Can't tell the kooks without a scorecard? Re: Monkey Wrenching the Echelon Engine)
Message-ID: <2C396693FBDED111AEF60000F84104A721BFA5@indyexch_fddi.indy.tce.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Zane Lewkowicz writes:
>As far as i can tell, only people who 
>threaten feds with physical danger are getting busted.  
>Threatening feds with the possibility of a future society in 
>which their roles are obviated apparently doesn't work. 

This matches what I've seen.  Mr. Bell made the big mistake of directly
attacking the IRS (the mercaptan [sp?] attack).  I've had some dealings with
local government people on real estate issues (who have generally been
reasonably helpful), and the set of people who like practical jokes has a
(nearly?) null intersection with the set of people who go into government
service.  Especially when you do something to send people to the doctor
because of chemical-induced vomiting...

If Tim May gets picked up, I expect it to be a result of a Chinese Cultural
Revolution-type action (all intellectuals, all programmers, all engineers,
etc.).  As long as Tim isn't entrapped, he is probably pretty safe from
being picked up.  However, there's going to be a lot of changes in the near
future (e$, Y2K, Internet fall-out, biochemoelectronics, etc.), so I advise
that everyone batten down the hatches -- we're in for a stormy ride into a
[likely] glorious future.
==========================================================
Mark Leighton Fisher          Thomson Consumer Electronics
fisherm@indy.tce.com          Indianapolis, IN
"Their walls are built of cannon balls, their motto is
'Don't Tread on Me'"




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ryan Lackey 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 02:37:16 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: radio net
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Is anyone else interested in setting up a radio net (probably packet radio
relay) to relay small quantities of data in the event the telecommunications
infrastructure becomes unavailable (either technically or legally/politically/
militarily)?  There are existing packet relay nets, but in my experience
amateur radio people, especially in the US, are very willing to roll over
for the government at the slightest cause.

I think the cost would be something like $1-5k per station, and it could
be done in a fairly turnkey fashion.  Exactly how to handle routing and
what protocol to use on the network is kind of an open question -- there
are a lot of solutions, none of them optimal.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 05:35:36 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Cypher Freedom Fighters
In-Reply-To: <2C396693FBDED111AEF60000F84104A721BFA5@indyexch_fddi.indy.tce.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



(I've changed the thread title to something simple, replacing the "RE:
Zooko on JYA, cpunks, and surveillance (was: Re: Can't tell the kooks
without a scorecard? Re: Monkey Wrenching the Echelon Engine)" title.)


At 11:56 AM -0700 9/8/98, Fisher Mark wrote:
>Zane Lewkowicz writes:
>>As far as i can tell, only people who
>>threaten feds with physical danger are getting busted.
>>Threatening feds with the possibility of a future society in
>>which their roles are obviated apparently doesn't work.
>
>This matches what I've seen.  Mr. Bell made the big mistake of directly
>attacking the IRS (the mercaptan [sp?] attack).  I've had some dealings with
>local government people on real estate issues (who have generally been
>reasonably helpful), and the set of people who like practical jokes has a
>(nearly?) null intersection with the set of people who go into government
>service.  Especially when you do something to send people to the doctor
>because of chemical-induced vomiting...

Ditto in spade for me. To wit, if I caught someone dumping mercaptin under
my door I'd likely be so enraged I'd empty a clip into him right then and
there...and I'd consider myself justified.

Bell "crossed the line" into committing prosecutable offenses in more than
just the alleged mercaptin attack. There was also the matter of working
under multiple faked Social Security numbers.

(No, I'm not saying this was immoral. Just illegal. And those who do the
crime should not be surprised to have to do the time.)

The issue of whether he threatened IRS officials at their home by having
their home addresses is unproven to me. Compiling such lists is perfectly
legal.

The metal chaff he supposedly wanted to drop down an IRS building
airshaft...well, it seems unworkable.

And, as many of us have noted, their is zero chance a working AP system was
deployed, absent several of the building blocks. So AP could not in itself
have been a threat.

But clearly his AP literature aroused much interest by various arms of law
enforcement. And once arouse, they pretty much had to find something to get
him on. His earlier conviction or plea on chemical and/or drug charges
meant they were looking for chemicals. And they found them.

Plus, recall that Bell bragged to his friends that he'd gotten revenge
against a lawyer he didn't like, and against the IRS.


>If Tim May gets picked up, I expect it to be a result of a Chinese Cultural
>Revolution-type action (all intellectuals, all programmers, all engineers,
>etc.).  As long as Tim isn't entrapped, he is probably pretty safe from
>being picked up.  However, there's going to be a lot of changes in the near
>future (e$, Y2K, Internet fall-out, biochemoelectronics, etc.), so I advise
>that everyone batten down the hatches -- we're in for a stormy ride into a
>[likely] glorious future.

I don't hide my political views, nor my support of various interesting
technologies. My actions are fully protected by the Bill of Rights, even if
various unconstitutional restrictions on mys speech and funding habits have
been recently passed.

I expect the chickens to come home to roost...meaning, some nerve gas or
biological attacks on government, the nuking of at least one major city,
and possibly the driving of the Zionists into the sea (figuratively
speaking, as more literally they'll probably be hacked to death by Arabs,
gassed by neighboring states, and possibly incinerated with ex-Soviet
nukes).

Chickens coming home to roost. The patriot movement in the U.S. is gaining
strength every day, though it is going to ground. (Which makes strong
crypto tools much more interesting and important to them.) I expect they
may strike at various targets as Y2K unfolds.

It is a glorious thing for our technologies to be spreading into the hands
of those who can do so much.

--Tim May


"The tree of liberty must be watered periodically with the blood of
tyrants...."
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist              | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 03:22:45 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Best & Brightest
Message-ID: <199809081935.OAA10317@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Hi,

Sorry it took so long to get back on this, but...

I went and checked the book in the bookstore as I had a vague memory of
reading it in high school. Yep, it's the same book I read in '74 in a
government class.

David Halberstam's "Best and Brightest" was an excellent book on the Vietnam
War and the political wrangling that got us into it - *for 1972*.

This book has never been updated and near as I can find nobody has taken the
time to compare its line of argument and innuendo with the last 26 years of
data that has come to light. In particular it makes no mention, and because
of time travel limitations shouldn't be expected to, of the wealth of data
on the Cuban Missile Crisis and the Vietnam Conflict that has come to light
in the last 3 years because these classified materials weren't released yet.
This material is available via the Kennedy Library and the LBJ Library. It
includes internal memos and similar material that Halberstam did not have
any knowledge of. Of paritcular note to the thesis that some espouse that
Kennedy intended to increase the force level is a memo to the combined
chiefs of staff to remove ALL US forces from SE Asia. This memo was signed
just weeks before Kennedy was assassinated. Every indication is that LBJ
would have honored that had the Ya Drang Valley (the 7th Cavalry almost had
another Little Bighorn) not occurred in '64. After this tactical defeat (both
US and Viet forces claimed it as a strategic win) the US level of forces in
the area went through the roof.

This book is good for a historical perspective only, if you're interested
in understanding what happened from 1962 - 1963 with Kennedy and 1963+ with
LBJ then this is not the book to go to. It is simply out of date.

A general rule of thumb in doing historical research:

If the reference is not a primary and it is over 5 years old and has not
been updated then it is suspect.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Hohensee 
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 22:39:34 +0800
Subject: Re: A question about gas warfare in San Fran in '66...
In-Reply-To: <199809080109.UAA06813@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <35F5411A.A846BB4C@nyu.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Here in Austin we have a local radio dj who does a public access show on
> various issue localy and nationaly, Alex Jones, who has put a piece on some
> sort of bio-weapon test that occurred in '66 in San Francisco. He is
> claiming that deaths resulted.
> 
> Anyone have a clue what he's talking about?

As far as I know, the only bio-weapon test that occured in San Francisco
was when they scattered some large volume of apparently harmless
bacteria over the city in order to find out what effect a bio-attack
would have on them, and to get an idea of what countermeasures are
useful, and of course, to test their own delivery systems. :)

I don't know what kind of bacteria they were, so I've no idea if they
were harmless or not.  Suffice to say that a bunch of people in San
Francisco think they weren't (harmless), and get upset about it
frequently.

It seems unlikely, however, that the few deaths that people have tried
to attribute to the bacteria were actually caused by them.  San
Francisco is a big city, with lots of people.  If the bacteria really
were dangerous, *manY* people would have died, rather than the handful
(10-15?) that did in fact die, for one reason or another.

Michael Hohensee




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 06:36:25 +0800
To: Tim May 
Subject: Re: Citizenship silliness.  Re: e$: crypto-expatriatism
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199809082230.SAA21185@domains.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In , on 09/08/98 
   at 11:41 AM, Tim May  said:

>>Yes Tim, we all know your anti-Israel position and your sympathy for the
>>Palistinians even though they are in the position that they are due to
>>their own actions.
>>
>>They started the war, got their asses beat and have been whining about it
>>for the past 50 years.

>We'll see who's whining after 2 million Zionists are consumed in the holy
>fire that sweeps through Haifa and Tel Aviv.

While you may gleefully look forward to such a day, need I remind you that
it will be more than the Jews that go up in flames. Israel has a nice
little stockpile of weapons and are not shy about using them. Any major
attack against Israel is liable to cause the entire Middle East turned
into one large glass bowl.

More than likely Israel will make use of a pre-emptive strike before
anyone gets close to finishing their weapons let alone launching them (I
was there when Israel launched their attack against the Iraq Breeder
Reactor the French were so kind to build for them).

>Some Jews learned nothing from WWII.

Actually they learned quite a bit. They will *never* be herded into cattle
cars and shipped off to the gas chambers again. They may eventually fall
to the forces of darkness but they will do so fighting.

>Ironic that our Cypherpunks technology, including remailers, will help
>the forces of liberation coordinate their attacks. On this point, Freeh
>and Reno are completely correct, as I have been saying for years.

forces of liberation? Lets see, Jews emigrate to Trans-Jordan, *buy* land
from the arabs living there, and live peaceably. The British decide to
divide up this area between Jordan, Palestine, and Israel. The Grand Mufti
declares a "holy war" against the Jews in which the Palestinians and
several neighboring countries join. The Arabs loose, the Jews win. They
continue this war for the next 50 years with various periods of
cease-fire. Every time they loose.

What the Arabs have attempted to do is finish the job the Nazi's started.
Only the Jews are not going to go down without a fight. The continuing
conflict in the Middle East has not been a battle of liberation but a war
of ethnic cleansing and extermination against the Jews.

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: One man's Windows are another man's walls.

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 03:53:11 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: radio net (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809082004.PAA10445@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Subject: radio net
> Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 14:29:53 -0400
> From: Ryan Lackey 

> Is anyone else interested in setting up a radio net (probably packet radio
> relay) to relay small quantities of data in the event the telecommunications
> infrastructure becomes unavailable (either technically or legally/politically/
> militarily)?  There are existing packet relay nets, but in my experience
> amateur radio people, especially in the US, are very willing to roll over
> for the government at the slightest cause.
> 
> I think the cost would be something like $1-5k per station, and it could
> be done in a fairly turnkey fashion.  Exactly how to handle routing and
> what protocol to use on the network is kind of an open question -- there
> are a lot of solutions, none of them optimal.

What sort of use do you see it being put to? One or two stations wouldn't be
worth the investment in money or time. Would it be some sort of private
channel or the backbone of a more complex enterprise? Do you see it being a
form of employment in the crash in that the operator could trade
communications access for vittles and ammo?

As to protocols, the standard IP packet software seems to work just fine (I
think it's something like KA9Q or some such). I've used it twice and it
worked like a champ.

Are you proposing to get a license or would it be strictly underground until
after the crash?


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 06:56:14 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980908153726.00816100@m7.sprynet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



	
	
When the American government eventually reveals the [full range of]
reconnaissance systems developed by this nation, the public will learn of
space achievements every bit as impressive as the Apollo Moon landings.




http://www.nro.odci.gov/speeches/grab-698.html

Prepared Remarks at the Naval Research Laboratory 75th Anniversary Event 

By Mr. Keith Hall, Director of the National Reconnaissance Office

17 June 1998 






  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: cicho@free.polbox.pl (cicho)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 23:55:48 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: wired on y2k
In-Reply-To: <199809080235.TAA23415@netcom13.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <35f55163.1411866@193.59.1.1>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I read this piece in the print edition and wondered...
>F E A T U R E|Issue 6.08 - August 1998 
>The Y2K Solution: Run for Your Life!! 
> By Kevin Poulsen 

Not *the* Kevin Poulsen, is it?

('the', as in http://www.well.com/user/fine/journalism/jail.html
or http://www.catalog.com/kevin/scales.html)

.marek





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ryan Lackey 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 04:19:49 +0800
To: Tim May 
Subject: Re: Citizenship silliness.  Re: e$: crypto-expatriatism
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> let us know if you find any places in the caribbean [which allow
> sheeple to have real guns]

AFAIK, none, unless you include "people who bribe the government of
some of these countries" as "sheeple".  International waters might work,
if you can find a flag which allows you to keep weapons on your ship,
which AFAIK is rare these days.  Some of the independent non-BDTs
like St. Kitts and Nevis, Antigua, etc. might be better for this than
Anguilla.

Anguilla has the benefit of being small and stable, such that you're less
likely to need a gun.  I seriously doubt if the 60 police officers on
Anguilla could be organized to do a Waco-style offensive in any case.
This isn't an ideal situation, but is pretty reasonable for now.

Israel is *definitely* not on my "list of places I'd go to avoid trouble",
no matter what kind of weaponry I were permitted by virtue of being
non-Arab and Western.  Tel Aviv being a political target for the 
Palestians, Jerusalem being a target with definite style points for
others, and Armageddon having additional style points for the first
private nuclear detonation -- three targets in one tiny country, oh joy.
I'd feel safer in Washington DC.

-- 
Ryan Lackey
rdl@mit.edu
http://sof.mit.edu/rdl/		




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: demona@demona.doldrums.dyn.ml.org
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 09:46:09 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: (fwd) ppdd - encrypted filesystem - kernel patch and support progs.
Message-ID: <199809082143.RAA01758@demona.doldrums.dyn.ml.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-- forwarded message --
Path: nntp.net-link.net!ptdnetP!newsgate.ptd.net!newsfeed.fast.net!howland.erols.net!newsfeed1.telenordia.se!newsfeed1.funet.fi!news.helsinki.fi!not-for-mail
From: Allan Latham 
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.announce
Subject: ppdd - encrypted filesystem - kernel patch and support progs.
Followup-To: comp.os.linux.misc
Date: Tue,  8 Sep 1998 08:38:12 GMT
Organization: Flexsys
Lines: 48
Approved: linux-announce@news.ornl.gov (Mikko Rauhala)
Message-ID: 
Reply-To: alatham@flexsys-group.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: laulujoutsen.pc.helsinki.fi
Old-Date: Sat, 05 Sep 1998 14:43:19 +0200
X-No-Archive: yes
X-Auth: PGPMoose V1.1 PGP comp.os.linux.announce
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	ITpeWxe/v9s=
	=w014
Xref: nntp.net-link.net comp.os.linux.announce:1426

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----


ppdd is an advanced encrypted file system for i386 Linux only.

It is used in a similar way to the loop device and offers simplicity and
speed plus full strength encryption (128 bit).

The design takes into consideration the fact that data on disc has a
long lifetime and that an attacker may have the matching plaintext to
much of the cyphertext.

A combination of master/working pass phrases offers enhanced security
for backup copies.

Current status is BETA and comments on the
implemenation and underlying crypography are most welcome.

It consists of a kernel patch plus support programs and is intended
for users with enough knowledge to compile the kernel, setup lilo,
partition disks etc. It is not for absolute beginners or "non technical"
users just yet.

Available from: http://pweb.de.uu.net/flexsys.mtk

Package is ppdd-0.4.tgz, pgp signature is also available from same url.

Allan Latham 



- -- 
This article has been digitally signed by the moderator, using PGP.
http://www.iki.fi/mjr/cola-public-key.asc has PGP key for validating signature.
Send submissions for comp.os.linux.announce to: linux-announce@news.ornl.gov
PLEASE remember a short description of the software and the LOCATION.
This group is archived at http://www.iki.fi/mjr/linux/cola.html

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-- end of forwarded message --




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 06:55:41 +0800
To: "William H. Geiger III" 
Subject: Re: Citizenship silliness.  Re: e$: crypto-expatriatism
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 1:19 PM -0500 9/8/98, William H. Geiger III wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
>In , on 09/08/98
>   at 09:24 AM, Tim May  said:
>
>>>
>>>Does anyone know of any countries with more reasonable gun laws than the
>>>US?  I vaguely think Israel and Switzerland are better, at least for
>>>citizens.
>>>It is one of the major problems I have with Anguilla -- "guns are bad".
>>>I miss my M1A.
>
>>Don't automatically assume Israel is good for gun ownership. If you're an
>>untermenschen, a schwarzen, a sand nigger, an Arab, you can't legally own
>>a gun. Unless you're one of the Trustees, i.e., a deputized member of the
>>PLO's military or police.
>
>>The Chosen People are of course encouraged to have fully automatic
>>weapons.
>
>Yes Tim, we all know your anti-Israel position and your sympathy for the
>Palistinians even though they are in the position that they are due to
>their own actions.
>
>They started the war, got their asses beat and have been whining about it
>for the past 50 years.

	Crap, the U.N. (what was that about "United?") started the shit
when they ham-fisted decided that the "homeland" the "Jews" needed was land
considered holy by the Moslems AND Christians, and ignored the fact that
the jews were just as racist and bigoted as a group as the Kikes that had
been trying to cook them.

	Israel was a DUMB idea, like mixing Nitric acid and Glycerol in a
blender. Anyone who thought it wouldn't end in violence was a total fool,
anyone who thinks that the Powers That Be want it cool down is a bigger
fool.



petro@playboy.com----for work related issues. I don't speak for Playboy.
petro@bounty.org-----for everthing else.      They wouldn't like that.
                                              They REALLY
Economic speech IS political speech.          wouldn't like that.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 07:32:19 +0800
To: "William H. Geiger III" 
Subject: Re: Citizenship silliness.  Re: e$: crypto-expatriatism
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 2:44 PM -0500 9/8/98, William H. Geiger III wrote:
>What the Arabs have attempted to do is finish the job the Nazi's started.

	Bullshit.

	I don't care much for palestinians, mostly for cultural reasons,
but they were, in the begininging not interested in killing every jew in
the world, they may not have liked the Northern European Jews, but from
what I've seen, there wasn't any love lost the other way.

	Personally, I hope they BOTH nuke each other off the god damn
planet and take all that fucking oil with them.

>Only the Jews are not going to go down without a fight. The continuing
>conflict in the Middle East has not been a battle of liberation but a war
>of ethnic cleansing and extermination against the Jews.

	No, more like a get off our fucking land.

petro@playboy.com----for work related issues. I don't speak for Playboy.
petro@bounty.org-----for everthing else.      They wouldn't like that.
                                              They REALLY
Economic speech IS political speech.          wouldn't like that.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: kamikaze23@juno.com (M I T)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 06:37:43 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Any good hacking sites?
Message-ID: <19980908.182213.2926.0.kamikaze23@juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



hey all,

any1 know of any good hacking sites that teach u the basics and stuff?

also, any1 here into AOL hacking???

thanx,
~Fallen Angel

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 07:18:18 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Doing nothing wrong...
Message-ID: <199809082334.SAA11809@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



It occurred to me that a great comeback to:

If you don't have anything to hide you shouldn't mind being monitored by the
police.

To which the responce should be:

Ok, since the police don't have anything to hide they shouldn't mind being
monitored by the citizens.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 09:47:49 +0800
To: Lazlo Toth 
Subject: Re: Mitnick wants cyphertext; gov't wants keys
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199809090134.SAA14123@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



well, this is very interesting. Mitnick therefore represents
one of the first cases in which the govt is attempting
to compel keys. he's taken the 5th amendment against
giving the keys.

it looks to me like this: maybe mitnick had no backup of his
encrypted data. the FBI takes his laptop with all the
encrypted data. there may be some things in the data
that could tend to support his innocence-- but perhaps
there are other things that would tend to incriminate
him more than he already is.  so he wants the whole
set of data first, so he can make sure, without giving
the keys. the govt wants the whole set of data first, so they can 
make sure!! stalemate.

I think the govt does not have much of a case. it seems to
me that they should make the full contents of the laptop
available to the defense. it was mitnicks property. it
would be like them seizing someone's file cabinet. it
would be easy to make xerox's and return them to the
defendant.  but gosh, maybe with Rico that's too much of
a gracious act.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 09:44:03 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: internet monitoring, UK
Message-ID: <199809090136.SAA14290@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




------- Forwarded Message

From: "ama-gi ISPI" 
To: 
Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 4.25:UK Police May Soon Tap Your Email & Internet Use At Will
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 01:16:50 -0700

ISPI Clips 4.25:UK Police May Soon Tap Your Email & Internet Use At Will
News & Info from the Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI)
Tuesday September 8, 1998
ISPI4Privacy@ama-gi.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This From: The Independent Network, Monday September 7, 1998
http://www.independent.co.uk

The PC in your mailbox:
The police may soon be allowed to read your email and check your Internet
use at will.
http://www.independent.co.uk/net/980907ne/index.html

By
Paul Lavin

When you drop an envelope in a red pillar-box, you walk away confident that
your mail will not be read by anyone except the addressee. However, when
you send an email, it might be wise to reflect on the differences.

According to the organisation Internet Freedom, an agreement being
negotiated between the UK's internet service providers (ISPs) and the
police will open the email of the UK's eight million Internet users to
scrutiny without debate in Parliament or oversight by the courts or the
Home Secretary.

British police are said to be close to reaching an agreement with ISPs that
will enable them to monitor customers' emails and web usage logs. Chris
Ellison of Internet Freedom, says: "Following a series of meetings between
the Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) and Internet industry
representatives, we understand that both groups have stated a willingness
to reach a 'memorandum of understanding' about implementing police access
to private data held by ISPs."

According to David Kennedy, chairman of the Internet Service Providers
Association, that is a serious overstatement of the discussions. However,
he admits that the UK's ISPs are trying to avoid being flooded by court
orders or having the police cart off critical servers for evidence. He
says: "We are talking to law enforcement representatives to find a way to
work with them within the legal framework that exists. All members of our
association take the view that emails are private."

As with the understanding between the Metropolitan Police and the ISPs over
"banned" Usenet newsgroups and the closing down of web sites that may
breach the law, the significance of such an agreement is that any such
police activity may not be subjected to judicial review or legal
constraint. Detective Chief Superintendent Keith Ackerman, chairman of the
ACPO's computing crimes sub-committee, says: "We want to ensure the
criminal doesn't take best advantage of the Internet, without requiring the
Government to use the sledgehammer of regulation. However, we are not
looking for the ability to go on fishing expeditions."

The ISPs know that they are stuck in the middle, according to Keith
Mitchell, chairman of Linx, a partnership of large ISPs. He says: "To
divulge private email even under duress would be commercial suicide for an
ISP. In some circumstances it would constitute a crime."

Nonetheless, mistakes happen and there are well-known cases where the
police have been persuasive. Mitchell says: "The current laws do not
adequately protect ISPs or private individuals. We will be active in
seeking responsive changes from Parliament."

While there are undoubtedly individuals who use the Internet's email and
worldwide web for nefarious purposes, the vast majority of people who use
email and the web for personal and business communications have an
expectation of privacy. And law-abiding citizens who wholeheartedly support
the goals of law enforcement agencies may nevertheless feel uneasy about
giving them carte blanche over email.

America Online has been quite vocal in its opposition to opening the doors
to the police short of a court order. Many ISPs agree. Julie Hatch,
marketing communications director of Easynet, says:"We do not allow anyone
to access our customers' email without a court order.

"It makes no difference if it is an estranged wife or a suspicious business
partner or anyone else, we would not divulge a subscriber's private email
unless we were presented with a court order. This is in accordance with our
terms and conditions.

"Our business is also subject to restrictions imposed by the Data
Protection Act (DPA), and in any situation we would certainly abide by
those rules. So unless a subscriber's actions are illegal, you can say that
email is confidential."

The DPA provides scanty protection to email users, however.

While the Act has aspects that protect the quality and use of information
held in computer systems, disclosure can be afforded by a compliant ISP by
simply including appropriate language in the small print of their terms and
conditions. Data may be revealed to law enforcement officials as long as
the subscriber is notified.

Easynet's assurances highlight the differences between ISPs that are
classified as telecoms providers, protected from feeling the long arm of
the law by a regulatory framework, and those that are merely private
businesses unaccountable to anyone but their owners and governed solely by
their contracts with subscribers.

As well as Easynet, UK ISPs that are regulated as telecoms providers
include BT Internet and Demon, which is now part of Scottish Telecom.

Smaller ISPs are more vulnerable to the persuasive demands of the
police.They have no legally protected right of privacy and any redress for
email disclosure would only be for breach of contract.

Furthermore, most ISPs now include in their terms and conditions a
requirement that the subscriber bear the expense of any legal costs
resulting from their use of the service. This could lead to a complaining
subscriber having to bear the costs of both sides of a lawsuit against an
ISP even if they won.

The most serious aspect of this potential agreement between the police and
ISPS is, according to critics, the absence of legal safeguards. In order to
tap telephones, the police need the permission of the Home Secretary and
must justify violating the privacy of a suspect. It is not clear from the
law whether tapping a telephone and tapping into an email exchange are the
same thing.

Chris Ellison says: "This is what is so dangerous about the new culture of
private regulation and moral responsibility. ISPs now operate in a moral
climate which insists on limitations for freedom of speech. Any material
that causes offence - especially to children and ethnic minorities - is
regularly removed. ISPs have now embraced this self-censorship credo and
are willing to set themselves up as moral arbiters of internet content,
filtering out anything that they feel may be illegal."

Without public debate or scrutiny by Parliament, the police are likely to
gain, as Liz Parratt from the organisation Liberty puts it, "a snoopers'
charter for the Internet". Ordinary users will have little legal protection
or redress against police monitoring of their communications. This trend
could render the Internet less private and more regulated than any other
communications medium.

"If nothing else, these discussions have demonstrated what self-regulation
really means: ISPs undertaking the role of publicly unaccountable
instruments of law enforcement."

Email is not like a letter in an envelope; it is more like a postcard. Just
as you would not put some messages on a postcard, you should think before
you use email for your most private communications. While the legality and
desirability of the any agreement between ACPO and the ISPs is highly
debatable, anyone interested in maintaining their privacy on the Internet
must take responsibility for their own actions.

The agreement between ACPO and ISPs will be the subject of three seminars:
22 September in Edinburgh, 8 October in London and 27 October in
Manchester. Additional details can be found at
http://www.linx.net/misc/acposeminar.html .


- --------------------------------NOTICE:------------------------------
ISPI Clips are news & opinion articles on privacy issues from
all points of view; they are clipped from local, national and international
newspapers, journals and magazines, etc. Inclusion as an ISPI Clip
does not necessarily reflect an endorsement of the content or opinion
by ISPI. In compliance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed free without profit or payment for non-profit research
and educational purposes only.
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

ISPI Clips is a FREE e-mail service from the "Institute for the Study
of Privacy Issues" (ISPI). To receive "ISPI Clips" on a daily bases
(approx. 4 - 8 clips per day) send the following message  "Please
enter [Your Name] into the ISPI Clips list: [Your e-mail address]" to:
ISPIClips@ama-gi.com  .

The Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) is a small
contributor-funded organization based in Victoria, British Columbia
(Canada). ISPI operates on a not-for-profit basis, accepts no
government funding and takes a global perspective.

ISPI's mandate is to conduct & promote interdisciplinary research
into electronic, personal and  financial privacy with a view toward
helping ordinary people understand the degree of privacy they have
with respect to government, industry and each other and to likewise
inform them about techniques to enhance their privacy.

But, none of this can be accomplished without your kind and
generous financial support. If you value in the ISPI Clips service or if
you are concerned about the erosion of your privacy in general, won't
you please help us continue this important work by becoming an "ISPI
Clips Supporter" or by taking out an institute Membership?

We gratefully accept all contributions:

  Less than $60    ISPI Clips Supporter
          $60 - $99    Primary ISPI Membership (1 year)
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More than $300    Executive Council Membership (life)

Your ISPI "membership" contribution entitles you to receive "The ISPI
Privacy Reporter" (our bi-monthly 12 page hard-copy newsletter in
multi-contributor format) for the duration of your membership.

For a contribution form with postal instructions please send the following
message "ISPI Contribution Form" to ISPI4Privacy@ama-gi.com .

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------- End of Forwarded Message




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 07:44:41 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Citizenship silliness.  Re: e$: crypto-expatriatism (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809082359.SAA12044@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 18:17:45 -0500
> From: Petro 
> Subject: Re: Citizenship silliness.  Re: e$: crypto-expatriatism

> planet and take all that fucking oil with them.

I wonder how the new realization that the calthrate deposits in the ocean
bottem off the continental shelf make fine fuel and it's replenishable and
may be of a larger quantity than the oil reserves will effect the power
balance.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 10:17:09 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Tax silliness
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 10:39 PM -0700 9/7/98, Tim May wrote:
>Folks, I generally restrain myself from passing on all the various news
>stories I see or read.
>
>But tonight Fox News is reporting that the IRS has said it may seek to
>assess "gift taxes" if the guy who recovered Mark McGwire's 61st home
>baseball gives the ball back to Mark McGwire.
>
>(The ball is said to have a street value, to museums or collectors, of
>$250K or so. The 62nd home run ball, the one which breaks Maris' record,
>will supposedly be worth more than a million bucks.)

As you may have heard by now, if you are watching the game tonight, the IRS
Commissioner issued a statement saying anyone who gets the ball and gives
it to another (esp. McGwire) will NOT face taxes.

(Ah, but will McGwire face taxes on such a gift? Just think, had the IRS
not issued a royal decree absolving the perpetrator of taxes, they could
have collected taxes on the guy who got the ball and then taxes on the guy
who had the ball given to him. Through the miracle of multiple taxation,
the IRS gets it all....)

The IRS Commissioner also acknowledged the absurdity of this particular
clause of the tax code, and compared the tax code to obscure baseball rules.

Someone suggested in private e-mail to me that the IRS would likely _not_
seek taxes, but acknowledged that it _could_. And there's the rub.

As it happens, a ballpark employee actually _caught_ the ball, it is being
reported, in a special restricted zone. He says he'll give the ball to
McGwire ("but I don't want to be taxed!" he said on camera). Possibly a
good deal for him, as it heads off a typically American lawsuit by the
owners of the ballpark claiming they own the fruits of his labor, and he
maybe gets a minor book deal, and he avoids villification by the Oprah and
Geraldo crowd.

(I confess that if I'd gotten the ball I'd let capitalism work its magic by
selling the ball to the highest bidder. A million bucks, for starters.)

--Tim May

"The tree of liberty must be watered periodically with the blood of
tyrants...."
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist              | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Lazlo Toth 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 07:20:58 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Mitnick wants cyphertext; gov't wants keys
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>http://www.wired.com/news/print_version/politics/story/14855.html
>
>Wired News:
>Hacker Can't Get Access
>By Arik Hesseldahl
>
>8:35pm  4.Sep.98.PDT
>
>The epic legal wrangling in the Kevin Mitnick case took a new turn last
>week when the accused hacker lost an appeal  to access certain encrypted
>data that his attorneys say could help him.
>The data, seized by the FBI from Mitnick's computer when he was arrested in
>1995, could contain evidence that could prove him innocent of some of the
>charges against him, according to his defense.
>In its encrypted form, the data is useless to prosecutors, who may have
>tried to decode it and failed, said Donald C. Randolph, the Santa Monica,
>California, attorney defending Mitnick.
>....
>"We told the judge that giving him access to those files was like giving
>someone access to a locked safe that might contain a gun," Painter said.
>"[Mitnick's attorneys] claimed in court that the data might contain
>exculpatory evidence but offered no further explanation."
>Greg Vincent, Randolph's associate on the case, said that under federal
>rules, Mitnick should be given access to all the evidence against him, and
>that by denying such access, the government is opening itself up to losing
>an appeal should Mitnick be convicted.
>Vincent also said the government was willing to give access to the
>encrypted files, provided that Mitnick hand over the password. This, said
>Vincent, would violate Mitnick's Fifth Amendment rights against
>self-incrimination.         
>Painter confirmed that the files had not been decrypted by the government.    




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 08:06:42 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Spelling error...
Message-ID: <199809090019.TAA12278@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Hi,

It's clathrate, not calthrate...

Sorry.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 10:27:38 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 4.25:UK Police May Soon Tap Your Email & Internet Use At Will
Message-ID: <199809090224.TAA18211@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: "ama-gi ISPI" 
Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 4.25:UK Police May Soon Tap Your Email & Internet Use At Will
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 01:16:50 -0700
To: 

ISPI Clips 4.25:UK Police May Soon Tap Your Email & Internet Use At Will
News & Info from the Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI)
Tuesday September 8, 1998
ISPI4Privacy@ama-gi.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This From: The Independent Network, Monday September 7, 1998
http://www.independent.co.uk

The PC in your mailbox:
The police may soon be allowed to read your email and check your Internet
use at will.
http://www.independent.co.uk/net/980907ne/index.html

By
Paul Lavin

When you drop an envelope in a red pillar-box, you walk away confident that
your mail will not be read by anyone except the addressee. However, when
you send an email, it might be wise to reflect on the differences.

According to the organisation Internet Freedom, an agreement being
negotiated between the UK's internet service providers (ISPs) and the
police will open the email of the UK's eight million Internet users to
scrutiny without debate in Parliament or oversight by the courts or the
Home Secretary.

British police are said to be close to reaching an agreement with ISPs that
will enable them to monitor customers' emails and web usage logs. Chris
Ellison of Internet Freedom, says: "Following a series of meetings between
the Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) and Internet industry
representatives, we understand that both groups have stated a willingness
to reach a 'memorandum of understanding' about implementing police access
to private data held by ISPs."

According to David Kennedy, chairman of the Internet Service Providers
Association, that is a serious overstatement of the discussions. However,
he admits that the UK's ISPs are trying to avoid being flooded by court
orders or having the police cart off critical servers for evidence. He
says: "We are talking to law enforcement representatives to find a way to
work with them within the legal framework that exists. All members of our
association take the view that emails are private."

As with the understanding between the Metropolitan Police and the ISPs over
"banned" Usenet newsgroups and the closing down of web sites that may
breach the law, the significance of such an agreement is that any such
police activity may not be subjected to judicial review or legal
constraint. Detective Chief Superintendent Keith Ackerman, chairman of the
ACPO's computing crimes sub-committee, says: "We want to ensure the
criminal doesn't take best advantage of the Internet, without requiring the
Government to use the sledgehammer of regulation. However, we are not
looking for the ability to go on fishing expeditions."

The ISPs know that they are stuck in the middle, according to Keith
Mitchell, chairman of Linx, a partnership of large ISPs. He says: "To
divulge private email even under duress would be commercial suicide for an
ISP. In some circumstances it would constitute a crime."

Nonetheless, mistakes happen and there are well-known cases where the
police have been persuasive. Mitchell says: "The current laws do not
adequately protect ISPs or private individuals. We will be active in
seeking responsive changes from Parliament."

While there are undoubtedly individuals who use the Internet's email and
worldwide web for nefarious purposes, the vast majority of people who use
email and the web for personal and business communications have an
expectation of privacy. And law-abiding citizens who wholeheartedly support
the goals of law enforcement agencies may nevertheless feel uneasy about
giving them carte blanche over email.

America Online has been quite vocal in its opposition to opening the doors
to the police short of a court order. Many ISPs agree. Julie Hatch,
marketing communications director of Easynet, says:"We do not allow anyone
to access our customers' email without a court order.

"It makes no difference if it is an estranged wife or a suspicious business
partner or anyone else, we would not divulge a subscriber's private email
unless we were presented with a court order. This is in accordance with our
terms and conditions.

"Our business is also subject to restrictions imposed by the Data
Protection Act (DPA), and in any situation we would certainly abide by
those rules. So unless a subscriber's actions are illegal, you can say that
email is confidential."

The DPA provides scanty protection to email users, however.

While the Act has aspects that protect the quality and use of information
held in computer systems, disclosure can be afforded by a compliant ISP by
simply including appropriate language in the small print of their terms and
conditions. Data may be revealed to law enforcement officials as long as
the subscriber is notified.

Easynet's assurances highlight the differences between ISPs that are
classified as telecoms providers, protected from feeling the long arm of
the law by a regulatory framework, and those that are merely private
businesses unaccountable to anyone but their owners and governed solely by
their contracts with subscribers.

As well as Easynet, UK ISPs that are regulated as telecoms providers
include BT Internet and Demon, which is now part of Scottish Telecom.

Smaller ISPs are more vulnerable to the persuasive demands of the
police.They have no legally protected right of privacy and any redress for
email disclosure would only be for breach of contract.

Furthermore, most ISPs now include in their terms and conditions a
requirement that the subscriber bear the expense of any legal costs
resulting from their use of the service. This could lead to a complaining
subscriber having to bear the costs of both sides of a lawsuit against an
ISP even if they won.

The most serious aspect of this potential agreement between the police and
ISPS is, according to critics, the absence of legal safeguards. In order to
tap telephones, the police need the permission of the Home Secretary and
must justify violating the privacy of a suspect. It is not clear from the
law whether tapping a telephone and tapping into an email exchange are the
same thing.

Chris Ellison says: "This is what is so dangerous about the new culture of
private regulation and moral responsibility. ISPs now operate in a moral
climate which insists on limitations for freedom of speech. Any material
that causes offence - especially to children and ethnic minorities - is
regularly removed. ISPs have now embraced this self-censorship credo and
are willing to set themselves up as moral arbiters of internet content,
filtering out anything that they feel may be illegal."

Without public debate or scrutiny by Parliament, the police are likely to
gain, as Liz Parratt from the organisation Liberty puts it, "a snoopers'
charter for the Internet". Ordinary users will have little legal protection
or redress against police monitoring of their communications. This trend
could render the Internet less private and more regulated than any other
communications medium.

"If nothing else, these discussions have demonstrated what self-regulation
really means: ISPs undertaking the role of publicly unaccountable
instruments of law enforcement."

Email is not like a letter in an envelope; it is more like a postcard. Just
as you would not put some messages on a postcard, you should think before
you use email for your most private communications. While the legality and
desirability of the any agreement between ACPO and the ISPs is highly
debatable, anyone interested in maintaining their privacy on the Internet
must take responsibility for their own actions.

The agreement between ACPO and ISPs will be the subject of three seminars:
22 September in Edinburgh, 8 October in London and 27 October in
Manchester. Additional details can be found at
http://www.linx.net/misc/acposeminar.html .


--------------------------------NOTICE:------------------------------
ISPI Clips are news & opinion articles on privacy issues from
all points of view; they are clipped from local, national and international
newspapers, journals and magazines, etc. Inclusion as an ISPI Clip
does not necessarily reflect an endorsement of the content or opinion
by ISPI. In compliance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed free without profit or payment for non-profit research
and educational purposes only.
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The Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) is a small
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(Canada). ISPI operates on a not-for-profit basis, accepts no
government funding and takes a global perspective.

ISPI's mandate is to conduct & promote interdisciplinary research
into electronic, personal and  financial privacy with a view toward
helping ordinary people understand the degree of privacy they have
with respect to government, industry and each other and to likewise
inform them about techniques to enhance their privacy.

But, none of this can be accomplished without your kind and
generous financial support. If you value in the ISPI Clips service or if
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you please help us continue this important work by becoming an "ISPI
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 10:31:26 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: [FP] FW: Americans love a police state
Message-ID: <199809090224.TAA18222@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: "ScanThisNews" 
Subject: IP: [FP] FW: Americans love a police state
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 06:46:54 -0500
To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com

[Forwarded message]

[The driver's license/ID serves as the link, giving police the "authority"
to set up so-called "DUI checkpoints." These are in reality ID checkpoints.
That is the fact. They can stop you and ask to se the DL/ID because it
actually belongs to the state and the state can demand it any time they
like. The next time you hear someone talking about how great these DUI stops
are, just remember, they are really ID checkpoints -- do you have your
papers?]

-------------------------------

WND - Letters to the editor
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/e-mail/98.e-mail.html

Americans love a police state

I think I've said this before but I'm amazed how our society (America)
has adopted like a favorite pet, the concept of DUI CHECKPOINTS. They
don't even call them POLICE CHECKPOINTS but DUI CHECKPOINTS because the
MAD mothers convinced America that everyone must be a drunk driver,
therefore you need DUI CHECKPOINTS. Remember, it is for the
children!

I heard a news brief this morning telling viewers "this holiday weekend
most law enforcement agencies in the city and county (San Diego) will be
conducting DUI checkpoints." Then the report showed statistics of a
checkpoint that was conducted last night saying 643 cars were checked
and 4 drivers were arrested, three for DUI while seven cars were
impounded. My math shows that only less than one half of one-percent
(00.47 percent) were DUI in the checkpoint last night. This clearly
should be evidence to the Beanie Baby collectors in their sport utility
vehicles that people who are not intoxicated while driving are being
subject to arrest for other items along with drivers having their cars
towed because they missed an insurance payment or did not register their
car because the new SMOG II standards caused their car to be classified
as a
GORE or GROSS POLLUTER. By the way, the insurance companies in America
are some of the
most corrupt and greedy institutions that contribute to all those
politicians who require you have insurance. Talk about the oligarchs in
Russia, we have them here already!

As Americans we thought we had free speech and free movement but not
with these
checkpoints. And you know how they tell you that you can turn around
before a checkpoint to avoid it? WRONG! The Supreme Court did rule that
there must be a sign with a point that vehicles may do a 180 but the
problem is that law enforcement actively posts a patrol vehicle or two
with lights off near that turn-around point and then they follow whoever
avoids the checkpoint and stop them on probable cause.

When will these checkpoints seize cash if you cannot account for the
$1,000 you carry? They are already doing this at the border leaving
America. When will these checkpoints seize anti-government printed
e-mail messages (I carry this kind of stuff in my car, sometimes books
on the New World Order or Illuminati) because of a new ANTI-TERRORIST
LAW? This week your friendly politicians held hearings interviewing
Louis Freeh of FBI and ex-CIA Directors (most of the ex-Directors are
dead now, i.e. Colby and Casey, etc., so I think they only had one to
use) with an active discussion that items that were
originally thrown out of the ANTI TERRORIST BILL need to be re-included
to protect against those nasty Islamic terrorists. Sure!

I also have a King James Bible in my car (been accident free for at
least 300,000 miles) and maybe one day at the checkpoint they'll grab
that and say "don't get caught with that again." "You know those
Christians are dangerous people" the two cops will say to one another,
"those Christians are against abortion and euthanasia, can you believe
that Sam?"

DARREN


-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Groom [mailto:gs924jfj@mon-cre.net]
Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 1998 5:11 AM
To: Current Events
Subject: Americans love a police state






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To subscribe or unsubscribe, email:
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 10:31:21 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: [FP] Congress's Secret Plans to Get Our Medical Records
Message-ID: <199809090224.TAA18233@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: "ScanThisNews" 
Subject: IP: [FP] Congress's Secret Plans to Get Our Medical Records
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 06:47:05 -0500
To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com

Congress's Secret Plans to Get Our Medical Records

http://www.eagleforum.org/column/1998/aug98/98-08-19.html

August 19, 1998

Americans were outraged to learn about the Federal Government's plans to
assign a personal identification number to every medical patient. But
Congress nevertheless passed H.R. 4250, the so-called Patient Protection
Act, which allows anyone who maintains your personal medical records to
gather, exchange and distribute them.

The only condition on distribution is that the information be used for
"health care operations," which is a vague and meaningless limitation that
does not even exclude marketing. Even worse, H.R. 4250 preempts state laws
that currently protect patients from unauthorized distribution of their
medical records.

While the sponsors of H.R. 4250 claim that they did not intend for the
information to be circulated for "just anything," their spokesman confirmed
that personal medical records would be used for future programs concerning
health quality and disease management.

When the Kennedy-Kassebaum law was passed in 1996, we were told it was to
improve access to health insurance. The law became explosively controversial
last month when the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) began to
implement the Kennedy-Kassebaum "unique health care identifiers" so that
government can electronically tag, track and monitor every citizen's
personal medical records.

After this news broke on July 18, embarrassed Congressmen inserted a line in
H.R. 4250, which passed July 24, ordering HHS not to promulgate "a final
standard" without Congressional authorization. That language is a total
phony; it doesn't prevent HHS from issuing proposed or interim standards
(which will become de facto standards) or from collecting medical data.

So much money is involved in accessing and controlling personal information
that the Washington lobbyists are moving rapidly to lock in the
extraordinary powers conferred by the Kennedy-Kassebaum law. That explains
these sneaky eleventh-hour inserts in pending legislation.

On August 4, the House passed yet another bill to protect the gathering of
personal information on private citizens. To paraphrase Ronald Reagan, there
they go again.

Just before passing H.R. 2281, a bill about copyrights on the Internet, the
House quietly attached a separate and dangerous bill deceptively entitled
the "Collections of Information Antipiracy Act."

No one, of course, is in favor of "piracy," but the impact of this bill goes
far beyond any reasonable definition of piracy. By the legerdemain of
inserting it in another bill, it will go straight to a House-Senate
conference committee under a procedure designed to avoid debate or
amendments in the Senate.

This Collections of Information bill (now part of H.R. 2281), in effect,
creates a new federal property right to own, manage and control personal
information about you, including your name, address, telephone number,
medical records, and "any other intangible material capable of being
collected and organized in a systematic way." This new property right
provides a powerful incentive for corporations to build nationwide databases
of the personal medical information envisioned by the Kennedy-Kassebaum law
and the Patient Protection bill.

Under the Collections of Information bill, any information about you can be
owned and controlled by others under protection of Federal law. Your medical
chart detailing your visits to your doctor, for example, would suddenly
become the federally protected property of other persons or corporations,
and their rights (not your rights) would be protected by Federal police
power.

This bill will encourage health care corporations to assign a unique
national health identifier to each patient. The government can then simply
agree to use a privately-assigned national identifier, and Clinton's
longtime goal of government control of health care will be achieved.

This bill creates a new federal crime that penalizes a first offense by a
fine of up to $250,000 or imprisonment for up to 5 years, or both, for
interfering with this new property right. It even authorizes Federal judges
to order seizure of property before a finding of wrongdoing.

H.R. 2281 grants these new Federal rights only to private databases, and
pretends to exclude the government's own efforts to collect information
about citizens. But a loophole in the bill permits private firms to share
their Federally protected data with the government so long as the
information is not collected under a specific government agency or license
agreement.

This loophole will encourage corporations, foundations, Washington insiders
and political donors, to build massive databases of citizens' medical and
other personal records, and then share that data with the government. And,
under the House-passed bill cynically called the Patient Protection Act,
patients would be unable to invoke state privacy laws to protect their
personal records.

Meanwhile, in another aspect of the Federal takeover of all Americans'
health care, the Centers for Disease Control is aggressively building a
national database of all children's medical records through the ruse of
tracking immunizations.

Tell your Congressman and Senators you won't vote for them in the upcoming
elections unless they immediately stop all Federal plans to track and
monitor our health or immunization records.

Phyllis Schlafly column 8-19-98


[thanks to jim groom for finding this piece]
[message forwarded by]
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 10:32:05 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: [Fwd: Govt.Storing MRE's In Caves]
Message-ID: <199809090224.TAA18245@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: me 
Subject: IP: [Fwd: Govt.Storing MRE's In Caves]
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 08:45:42 -0400
To: IP 

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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Path: news.dx.net!uunet!in5.uu.net!xmission!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!pln-w!spln!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews3
From: "Steve" 
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Subject: Re: Govt.Storing MRE's In Caves
Date: 7 Sep 1998 23:00:31 GMT
Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com
Message-ID: <01bddab3$a25f5600$d34ae5d0@maddog1.camalott.com>
References: <1998090721534800.RAA12052@ladder01.news.aol.com>
Reply-To: "Steve" 
NNTP-Posting-Host: p-499.newsdawg.com
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1161

I can vouch for the existance of these caves in KC.....been by there many
times in the days of my youth( lived there '56-'88). The interesting thing
is the government(FED) kicked the private business's that were using them
for warehousing/storage out....declaring that the caves were unsafe and
dangerous. Funny thing is.....they weren't unsafe enough for the FED's to
use.
Steve
West Texas
-- 
"We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and 
  the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow
  the men who pervert the Constitution."  --- Abraham Lincoln       
"You know, of course, that this means war..." Bugs Bunny to Elmer Fudd:
1942

PAPACHUBY2  wrote in article
<1998090721534800.RAA12052@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
 Hi, This is off the Ark list.  Interesting.  S.

 Below are two differnet notes that I received today.  I took all
 the return paths off of these so that they can be passed around.
 I personally know both sources and they are EXTREMELY credible.
 Perhaps we can locate a source near Kansas City..to look into
 this (with pictures)......I am MOST curious...
 marie
 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
 name

 Here's the post I received yesterday from a Y2K chat friend
 regarding the situation. The second message is one I received today 
 from him. He'll be keeping me posted on what else he learns.

 Jeff

 > >>>>>>>>>>>>>

Yesterday's Post-------

Dear friends,

As some of you know, I live in a poor and working class
neighborhood in kansas city, and am involved with various activities that
help poor people become less poor.  As part of this, I often take in
people who are homeless, or would be if not for a safe harbor. One of my
housemates just got a four month temporary job unloading trucks at an
underground storage center located near my neighborhood (KC has a lot of
underground  limestone caves that are used for storage). Anyway, this
particular contract is a government contract, and  the product being
unloaded and stored is MRE's. that is, "meal  ready to eat", which i 
believe is the current incarnation of the old army c rations. how many 
mre's are on a truck? all day, 8 hours a  day, for four months.  
that is a LOT of meals ready to eat.

Note that I didn't hear this from somebody who heard from somebody, i
heard this from somebody in my own household who is unloading the mres,
beginning at 7:30 in the am.

Three things: First, I am comforted to know that this large amount of 
food is being stored here locally. Second, if you have any fiends or
acquaintances who do temporary labor or casual jobs, you might ask 
around and see if any such operations are going on in your city.Three, 
somebody is taking this really seriously. mre's aren't cheap.

Today's Post --------------

Dear Jeff and everybody,

Today they unloaded nine trucks, and then were let go early
because some additional expected trucks didn't show. It takes two
guys about 1-1/2 hours to unload a truck, and each gets $35. Don't know
if this space has been used to store mre's before, but that's on the list
of questions to scope out.  It does seem to be a government contract, 
the supervisors seem sure of that. It has been confirmed that this is 
new, that is, it isn't the regular cold storage location for Ft.
Leonard Wood, etc. One of the other laborers said that each truck 
had 3500 cases, so today there were nine trucks times 3500 cases
equals 31,500 cases. Anybody know how  many mre's are in a case?  
This would seem to be literally an  enormous amount of food, as if 
there were six mre's in each case, that  would mean 189,000 means 
were unloaded today alone, and today was a short day.  He was called 
back to work at 3:30 in the afternoon, but  the expected trucks still 
didn't arrive.

Note that the laborers apparently have to +spc- a certain
amount of time sitting around and waiting. Since the contract is for
four months, 22 work days a month, and if today's unloading was an  
average work day, and there are at least six mre's per case, then  
we're talking a minimum of 16,632,000 mres. Any way you look at that, 
it is a large amount of prepared food, being tucked securely away  
in a limestone cavern in KCMO.

It's three meals a day for 500,000 people for 11 days, and that's 
the low estimate, since today was deemed a slack day by those doing 
the labor.

 - - - - --
Note: this is from another source... came in after the top portion....

> >>>>>>>>>>>>
I researched MRE's just this evening to learn more about
them. The full meal type MRE comes 12 per case, and the case weighs 17
pounds. So, for doing some math, double the figures you were dealing  
with. Using Robert's math that would come to 33,264,000 meals - 
using 22 work days per  month, for 4 months, and the light work load 
experienced by Robert's friend that particular day.

Assuming 12 per case, that's 2,772,000 cases at 17 pounds per
case equals 47,124,000 pounds of food, or 23,562 tons. That would
mean you could feed 500,000 people 3 meals per day for 22.17 days or
roughly 100,000 people for just over 3 months (about 111 days actually).
These are large numbers indeed and we can all look forward to learning
more about this.  Robert, can you put the local news people on it
to open it up?  Would that be wise or not? I don't know, but if
appropriate, it's one heck of a story they may wish to track down.  
God bless all of you,

<< End of Forwarded message >>
[snip]
Local Y2K Update:

I received a telephone call from a highly credible source.  This 
informant told me that government employees recently attended a Y2K 
meeting in Orange County.  At this meeting, one of the handouts was a 
listing of all the Mormon Canneries.  Even more disturbing was the 
fact, these employees were casually told not to make this public so 
that they could have the necessary time to acquire their long-term 
storage food first.


--------------08FDE2A053FE721F529722FE--






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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 10:31:56 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Industrial Espionage Increases as Firms Seek Competitive Edge
Message-ID: <199809090224.TAA18256@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: Richard Sampson 
Subject: IP: Industrial Espionage Increases as Firms Seek Competitive Edge
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 12:52:43 -0400
To: "ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com" 

 Industrial Espionage Increases as Firms Seek Competitive Edge
Sep. 6 (The Record/KRTBN)--The place: the Four Seasons Hotel,
Philadelphia. The date: June 14, 1997.

On one side of the table, two men from a Taiwanese company hoping to
expand into biotechnology. On the other, an FBI agent posing as an
information broker, and a researcher from Princeton-based Bristol-Myers
Squibb posing as a corrupt scientist preparing to sell a piece of his
company's soul.

On the table: a sheaf of papers -- stamped "confidential" in big,
black letters -- representing the company's investment of hundreds of
millions of dollars in Taxol, the blockbuster anti-cancer drug. The
asking price, according to the FBI: $200,000 and a percentage of sales.

The drama played out in that hotel room -- which ended when additional
FBI agents burst through the door and arrested the Taiwanese -- marked
the first federal sting operation against alleged spies for a foreign
corporation.

But industrial espionage today is far from unusual. U.S. companies are
increasingly being looted of some of their most precious technical
secrets by competitors -- both foreign and domestic -- using legal and
illegal methods. And New Jersey's research labs and high-tech companies
-- particularly pharmaceutical companies -- are prime targets.

>From 1992 to 1996, according to one study, the number of  cases of
industrial espionage at the nation's 1,300 largest companies nearly
doubled to about 1,100.  The potential commercial value of the stolen
information was pegged at $300 billion.

Richard Heffernan, a Branford, Conn., consultant who conducted the
study for the American Society of Industrial Security of Alexandria,
Va., said New Jersey pharmaceutical companies -- including Merck & Co.,
Schering-Plough, Warner-Lambert, and Johnson & Johnson -- have all been
targeted by corporate spies.

The reason: the hundreds of new products in their research and
development pipelines -- products that require huge investments in time
and money. Those pipelines hold the potential for billions of dollars
in profits.

"New Jersey is one of the top 10 areas for corporate espionage," said
Heffernan, who has advised a number of New Jersey drug companies on
ways to protect their secrets. "This is not a new thing for
pharmaceutical companies, and it's become progressively worse. There's
so much money to be made from the theft of their information. That
pipeline is a very deep, rich vein of gold."

In addition to illegal intrusions -- which can include anything from
hacking into a private computer to buying trade secrets from a company
insider -- more companies are targeting competitors' secrets using
legal -- but in some cases, unethical, or highly intrusive -- methods.

Membership in the Society of Competitive Intelligence Professionals --
an Alexandria, Va., group that advocates the use of legal methods to
gather business intelligence on competitors -- has skyrocketed in
recent years, more than quadrupling since 1990.

For the most part, competitive intelligence professionals analyze data
from public sources -- news reports, databases, trade shows, and the
like. But they also tap more questionable sources, such as satellite
photos. And they have indicated a widespread willingness to step over
ethical lines to obtain information on business rivals.

In a survey published in April by the competitive intelligence group,
participants -- all corporate spies -- were given several scenarios and
asked to choose from various options on how to proceed. Nearly half
said they were willing to misrepresent the purpose of their research,
30 percent were prepared to read a marketing report left on an adjacent
airplane seat, more than 70 percent said it was permissible to pump a
new hire for confidential information about her previous employer, and
20 percent were willing to read and use a competitor's proprietary
product data.

All of those tactics violate the competitive intelligence group's own
code of ethics, and the last might step over legal lines as well,
according to the survey's authors.

"I think there is room for some very legitimate information gathering
that's important for companies to do," said Gayle Porter, an authority
on business ethics at Rutgers University. "But I think there are
probably many, many, many examples of people taking it too far."

In New Jersey, there are abundant examples of companies alleging that
they have been targets of industrial espionage -- or who have been
accused of targeting others.

In 1996, Boehringer Mannheim Corp., a German drug company competing
against New Brunswick-based Johnson & Johnson in the $1.75 billion
market for blood-monitoring devices, sued J&J and its LifeScan
subsidiary in federal court.

Boehringer alleged that LifeScan offered employees incentives for
spying on its archrival, and that LifeScan employees sneaked into
Boehringer sales meetings in Indiana, Florida, Turkey, and Germany to
obtain proprietary product information. J&J denied the charges and in a
countersuit said Boehringer hired detectives to obtain secrets and had
workers pose as customers.

Boehringer acknowledged some of J&J's charges, including that it had
reprimanded an executive for posing as an importer to obtain a
demonstration of a product not yet on the market, and that it had
maintained a "competitive kill team" targeted at LifeScan.

But the two companies reached an out-of-court settlement in 1997,
agreeing to keep the terms of the settlement secret. J&J spokesman
Jeffrey Leebaw declined to comment. Boehringer did not return calls.

Heffernan and others say industrial espionage is on the rise because
of tougher competition in domestic markets, the targeting of U.S. trade
secrets by foreign economic and industrial interests, and the
combination of computer hackers with increasing technical
sophistication and companies that are woefully unprepared to stop them.

And they say one of the times companies become vulnerable is when
high-level employees leave.

Executives with knowledge of marketing plans for new products and
researchers responsible for developing the next big scientific
breakthrough are often exploited by their new employers to obtain a
competitive edge.

That is what Warner-Lambert of Morris Plains charged in a 1997 lawsuit
that was subsequently dropped.

The company spent 12 years and $17 million developing Procan SR, a
sustained-release drug used to treat heart rhythm irregularities. The
product won Food and Drug Administration approval in 1982.

Warner-Lambert accused a former employee of giving the top-secret
formulas for the drug to Copley Pharmaceutical Inc., a Canton, Mass.,
generic drug manufacturer she went to work for in 1984. Seven months
after she joined the company, Copley asked the FDA to approve a generic
version of the drug, which Copley eventually brought to market.

Neither company would comment on the settlement that ended the matter,
but Jason Ford, a Warner-Lambert spokesman, said the drug -- which was
discontinued several years ago by the company -- was never a
blockbuster.

"It wasn't so much the stealing of the product," Ford said. "The main
reason why we filed the lawsuit was to make it clear that we vigorously
defend our intellectual property. It sends a loud and clear message
that this is something we take very seriously."

Another North Jersey company, the Wormser Corp. of Englewood Cliffs,
also played a key role in an industrial espionage case involving a
former employee -- not as the victim, but as the accused.

The case centered on Frederick Marks III, a production manager
employed by Powell Products Inc. of Colorado Springs, Colo., until
1993. According to a lawsuit filed by Powell in 1995, Marks took with
him top-secret blueprints for a machine developed by Powell  to
mass-produce foam-tipped swabs more quickly and cheaply than any other
machine then available.

Powell accused the Wormser Corp. of bankrolling a plan to use the
stolen blueprints to create a prototype of the Powell machine, and
using the machine to compete against Powell.

After two years of litigation, a Denver jury awarded Powell $2.7
million in damages and legal fees, but Powell settled with the Wormser
Corp. for $1.7 million. Marks pleaded guilty to misdemeanor theft in
February in exchange for his cooperation with the FBI. The Wormsers --
company president Stephen, and his sons, Alan and David -- have not
been charged.

David Wormser referred questions to Bill Meyer, a Boulder, Colo.,
lawyer who denied the allegations, saying the Wormsers settled with
Powell to avoid "years and years" of legal wrangling. Powell President
Stephen Robards said the Wormsers are the true culprits.

"There's no question about it," he said. "The blueprints Marks stole
would not have damaged us without the Wormsers' money. He didn't have
the resources to start a business without them."

Since the passage of the 1996 Economic Espionage Act (EEA) making the
theft of trade secrets a felony, the FBI has become more involved in
industrial espionage cases in which U.S. companies have been targeted
by foreign or domestic interests.

To date, five cases have been brought under the act, including one in
July in which a Piscataway man -- a former scientist for Roche
Diagnostics, a Branchburg division of Nutley-based Hoffmann-La Roche --
was charged with attempted theft of trade secrets from the company.
According to the complaint, Huang Dao Pei tried to obtain secrets from
a current Roche scientist about the company's hepatitis C diagnostic
kit, hoping to market a similar kit in China.

William Megary, special agent in charge of the FBI's Newark office,
said individuals trying to steal American trade secrets are not "street
thugs," but high-tech thieves who are "educated, resourceful, and
elusive."

"Our cases illustrate the complexity of not only how diverse the
criminals are, but how diverse the crimes are, as well," he said. "The
FBI is committed to enforcing the EEA. Our message is clear -- it is no
longer open season on American technology."

Even before the act became law, federal stings were not unheard of.
 In the Bristol-Myers Squibb case, FBI agent John Hartmann established
himself as a technology information broker in 1995 and began laying a
paper trail of more than 135 faxes, e-mail messages, telephone calls,
and letters with the representatives of the Yuen Foong Paper Co., which
would eventually lead to the fateful meeting at the Philadelphia hotel.

Jane Kramer, a spokeswoman for Bristol-Myers Squibb, said the company
uses "the most sophisticated techniques" for safeguarding its trade
secrets, but she would not elaborate. When security is breached, she
added, it is important for a company to fight the intruder with every
weapon in its arsenal.

"Taxol is a major advance in cancer treatment," she said, adding that
the company's multimillion-dollar investment in research on the drug is
more than repaid by its $1 billion in annual sales. "You have a
dramatic investment in research and development that's the lifeblood of
a company like ours. The ramifications are huge for our present and our
future."

In what authorities described as the largest industrial espionage case
in U.S. history, a 1990 FBI sting led to charges against two men for
stealing secrets valued at $1 billion from Merck & Co. in Whitehouse
Station and Schering-Plough Corp. in Madison.

Biochemist Bernard Mayles, a former employee of the two companies, and
a confederate, Mario Miscio, were ultimately convicted of trying to
sell the secret formulas for Ivermectin, an anti-parasitic drug
marketed by Merck, and Interferon, a cancer and hepatitis treatment
sold by Schering-Plough.

An FBI agent posing as a Chinese investor who wanted to convert an
idle factory for Ivermectin production agreed to pay $1.5 million for
the formula and the microorganism used to produce the drug. He promised
to arrange the sale of the Interferon formula to a Polish investor for
$10 million.

Schering-Plough spokesman Ronald Asinari declined to comment, but
Merck spokeswoman Maggie Beute said her company has taken additional
steps to safeguard secrets in recent years, including beefing up
computer security and being more vigilant about getting vendors to sign
confidentiality agreements.

"There's so much at stake here," she said. "Anything that shortens the
life of any of our products is going to have detrimental effects on our
ability to recoup our investment in R&D. As an industry, we're very
focused on making sure our intellectual property rights aren't
violated."

Illegal intrusions such as those against Merck, Schering-Plough, and
Bristol-Myers Squibb have created a cottage industry for consultants
who advise companies on how to keep their secrets safe.

Andy Welch, a senior consultant at KPMG Peat Marwick's risk-management
practice, said business has increased tenfold in two years. Two out of
three companies who come to him for help are taking preventive
measures, but the others have already suffered security breaches.

Welch examines personnel policies to make sure there are procedures
for deactivating computer passwords when employees leave. And he
attempts to hack into the company's system from the outside to find its
weak links, such as the ability to dial in to a company's computer
system without a password.

He said many companies are not prepared to deal with the threat of
corporate espionage, especially intrusions into their computer systems,
where many of their most valuable secrets reside.

"The indication is that there is a large degree of unpreparedness out
there," Welch said. "It needs to be taken seriously. I can't tell you
with a straight face that everything is warm and fuzzy out there."

By Louis Lavelle

-0-
 Visit The Record, Hackensack, N.J., on the World Wide Web at
http://www.bergen.com

(c) 1998, The Record, Hackensack, N.J. Distributed by Knight
Ridder/Tribune Business News.  BMY, MRK, SGP, WLA, JNJ, CPLY,
END!A$9?HK-BIZ-ESPIONAGE


News provided by COMTEX.
[!BUSINESS] [!COMMUNITY] [!HEALTHCARE] [!WALL+STREET] [BIOTECHNOLOGY]
[BUSINESS] [CANCER] [CHINA] [COLORADO] [COMPUTER] [CORPORATE] [DOLLAR]
[E-MAIL] [ESPIONAGE] [FDA] [FLORIDA] [FOOD] [GERMANY] [GOLD] [INDIANA]
[INVESTMENT] [KRT] [LAWSUIT] [MARKET] [MARKETING] [MEN] [MONEY]
[NEW+BRUNSWICK] [NEW+JERSEY] [NEWS] [NEWSGRID] [PIPELINE] [PRODUCTS]
[PROPERTY] [RESEARCH] [SALES] [TECHNOLOGY] [TRADE] [TURKEY] [USA]


--
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a
prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------





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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 10:30:54 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Machine Vision For Biometric Applications
Message-ID: <199809090224.TAA18267@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Machine Vision For Biometric Applications
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 09:07:57 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

----------------------
NOTE:  Document contains instructive images.  You should go to the website
and open the images.
----------------------

Source: Applied Optics Group at the University of Kent at Canterbury (U.K.)
http://speke.ukc.ac.uk/physical-sciences/aog/facereco/

Machine Vision For Biometric Applications 

We are currently conducting research in the areas of automated facial
recognition and data compression of digitised images of the human face.
This work began by performing an eigenfactor  analysis on a data set
comprising 290 faces drawn largely from the student population at the
University of Kent, Canterbury. 

The image below shows the first three components (eigenfaces) resulting
from this analysis. It is interesting to note that eigenfaces 2 and 3 have
a clear relationship to gender. Thus the addition of eigenface 2 to the
average eigenface (1) results in a feminine face whereas the subtraction of
face 2 produces a face having masculine characteristics. In a similar way,
addition of face 3 to the average produces a masculine face and subtraction
of face 3 from the average results in a face having feminine features. 

This approach, variously known as the Karhunen-Loeve expansion, eigenfactor
analysis, principal components or the Hotelling transform has exceptional
data compression properties when applied to this particular pattern class
(2-D images of human faces).

Below, we show the image reconstruction quality that is achievable using
codes of varying lengths which describe how to reconstitute the image using
the component eigenfaces as a basis. Note that the subject shown here was
not included in the original data set used to generate the eigenface basis.
Despite this, recognition is achieved using a very short code. 

This method works particularly well when conditions such as head-camera
orientation and subject illumination are controlled.We are now
investigating other methods (some related to the Karhunen-Loeve expansion,
some not) which may be suitable for automated facial recognition under less
benign conditions. In particular, we are beginning to investigate the use
of illumination compensation techniques and 3-D imaging techniques which
are independent of illumination conditions. 

The group working on facial recognition here at UKC collaborates with a
number of commercial/industrial organisations in the U.K. and Europe. We
currently await the outcome of a cooperative research bid (CRAFT) to the
European Commission which will involve the development of facial biometrics
for smart cards and other access control applications. The industrial
partners are Neural Computer Sciences (U.K.), Datastripe Ltd (U.K.), Inside
Technologies (France), Smartkort (Iceland) and A la Carte (Belgium). 

More links on Facial Recognition 

 Staff Involved 

 Dr. C.J. Solomon - E-mail: C.J.Solomon@ukc.ac.uk 
 Jamie P. Brooker - E-mail: jpb3@ukc.ac.uk 
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 10:31:41 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: " Will Y2K usher in TEOTWAWKI?"
Message-ID: <199809090224.TAA18278@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: " Will Y2K usher in TEOTWAWKI?"
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 12:49:38 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  Dallas Morning News
http://www.dallasnews.com/texas-southwest-nf/tsw1.htm

 Turn for the worst? 

 09/06/98

 By Victorial Loe Hicks / The Dallas Morning News 

 A CAVE IN ARKANSAS - Will Y2K usher in TEOTWAWKI?

 Bryan Elder is sure it will - so sure that he'll be deep
 beneath the ground on Jan. 1, 2000.

 "As soon as I get a cave, I'm going to live in it," Mr.
 Elder vowed, wending his way through one
 Arkansas cavern. "I'll be the world's next caveman."

 Y2K is the pop-culture moniker for the
 programming glitch that left millions of computers
 and other devices unable to recognize dates beyond
 the year 1999. The disruption will depend on how
 many faulty mainframes, PCs and microchips - in
 everything from nuclear plants to VCRs - can be
 detected and fixed in the next 16 months.

 Most people regard Y2K with mild to moderate
 anxiety. But a flourishing subculture insists that it
 portends nothing less than TEOTWAWKI
 (tee-OH-tawa-kee): The End of the World as We
 Know It.

 "There won't be any accidental survivors," said Mr.
 Elder, who believes that computer failures will
 short-circuit the electric grid and the transportation
 system, fostering severe food shortages and social
 anarchy.

 "I'm not afraid of dying," he said. "I'd prefer not to
 starve to death."

 His scenario - which also envisions nuclear war,
 bombardment by asteroids, incineration by solar
 windstorm, the flip-flop of the North and South
 poles, an ice age and the second coming of Jesus
 Christ - is one of the more dramatic, even among
 Y2K alarmists. But he isn't alone in hunkering down.

 Merchants of survival goods say business is
 booming, primarily driven by new customers who
 are girding for Y2K. Anecdotes abound of city
 dwellers, including some computer jocks, who are
 poised to flee to the boonies, where they can store
 and grow food without having to fend off rapacious
 neighbors.

 Dallas systems analyst Steve Watson told Wired
 magazine that he bought 500 remote Oklahoma
 acres and several guns after recognizing the full
 ramifications of the Y2K crisis.

 Mr. Watson did not respond to interview requests
 from The Dallas Morning News. A vice president
 of the firm he works for, DMR Consulting, said Mr.
 Watson had come to regret his public stance, which
 "the company doesn't share."

 But in one respect, every cautionary voice is right.

 Y2K is absolutely guaranteed to happen. In a
 mounting wave that will crest powerfully on Jan. 1,
 2000, computers will encounter dates in which the
 two-digit year field reads 00, which "noncompliant"
 computers will read as 1900.

 Depending on whether a particular computer needs
 to know what year it is - to calculate accrued
 interest, for example, or to track maintenance
 schedules of industrial machinery - it may go on
 working normally, produce bad data or simply
 freeze up. If enough computers fail - say, at banks
 or telephone companies - the whole country,
 perhaps the world, could wake up with a whale of a
 New Year's hangover.

 By some estimates, industries and governments will
 spend as much as $600 billion to make things right.
 Even so, the Gartner Group, a research firm that has
 studied the issue since 1989, forecasts that half of
 the companies around the world will experience
 some disruption of their operations, further sapping
 an already woozy global economy.

 Precisely who will get hurt, how badly and for how
 long is the question - a question impossible to
 answer.

 "The uncertainty factor is immense. That's what
 makes this prophetic material," said Dr. Richard
 Landes, director of the Center for Millennial Studies
 at Boston University.

 "Back when I first heard about Y2K, I immediately
 realized that this would be grist for the apocalyptic
 prophets' mills."

 At a vigorous 32, Mr. Elder hardly fits the hoary
 image of a prophet.

 A marketing major from the University of Arkansas,
 he ran his own hydraulic service company until a
 couple of years ago, when he began devoting himself
 to studies of biblical prophecies and other spiritual
 texts.

 "The angel of death, that's how I feel," he said.

 He wants urgently for others to heed his warning, to
 believe, as he does, that anyone who remains above
 ground faces certain annihilation. Once the power
 grid goes dark, as he is sure it will, the financial
 system will collapse, he said.

 "Then we're back to the barter system and 'How
 much food do you have?' "

 That's only a prelude however. On May 5, 2000,
 Mr. Elder said, most of the planets in the solar
 system will align themselves on the opposite side of
 the sun from Earth. That will trigger the solar gales
 and the asteroid shower, which will precipitate still
 further catastrophes.

 "The computer problem will weed out a lot, and the
 solar wind will get the rest," he said. "The time to
 prepare is right now."

 For prepare, read: find a cave. Mr. Elder has his
 sights on one near Cassville, Mo., that he figures can
 accommodate 125 people.

 If he can reach a deal with the present owners, he
 plans to add plumbing, ventilation, diesel-fired
 generators, grow lights and enough basic supplies to
 sustain life for as long as seven years. Everyone will
 share the costs - $11,743 per person, he calculates.

 Byron Kirkwood isn't ready to live in a cave, but he
 does plan to be prepared for Y2K. Which in his
 case is easy, since he runs a mail-order survival
 products business from his rural Oklahoma home.

 He started the company six years ago, after his wife,
 Annie, said she received messages from the Virgin
 Mary - which she passed on in a series of books -
 warning that cataclysmic "earth changes" were
 imminent.

 These days, though, most of Mr. Kirkwood's
 customers are more worried about whether Y2K
 will cripple the U.S. economy than whether the
 Earth is about to turn on its side and acquire a
 second sun.

 Mrs. Kirkwood said Mary has not explicitly
 addressed Y2K, although she did warn recently that
 "major changes . . . will come about through
 government, banking institutions and
 telecommunications. Your power sources will be
 interrupted, and your life will change drastically."

 "That sure fits Y2K," Mr. Kirkwood said, "but she
 didn't come right out and say, 'The computers will
 fail.' "

 In any case, he said, sales of his survival products
 are up five-fold over last year, with water filters,
 hand-cranked radios and long-shelf-life foods
 leading the list.

 A rack in his office displays freeze-dried entrees -
 pepper steak, cheese ravioli and chili - packaged
 with individual chemical heating units. Some orders
 have come from as far away as Hong Kong and
 Austria.

 Like many Y2K pessimists, he gets much of his
 information and does much of his business via the
 Internet - using computers to bewail humankind's
 impending betrayal by computers.

 "I'm not trying to be a doomsayer," Mr. Kirkwood
 said. "I only give TEOTWAWKI a 10 percent
 chance of happening."

 However, he said, if food becomes scarce, "there's
 not enough police, not enough national guard, not
 enough military to go around."

 Those who stockpile food, water and cash - or who
 head for the hills - may look foolish to those who
 don't, he said, but only time will tell who are the real
 fools.

 "Some of us will look stupid one way, or some of us
 will look stupid the other way," he said. "You just
 don't know which side of stupid you're going to be
 on."

 Although Y2K is a purely technological, secular
 problem, there is a strong nexus between Y2K
 anxieties and religious millennialism, which predicts a
 catastrophic cleansing as the precursor to a new
 paradise.

 Like the Kirkwoods and Mr. Elder, the Dallas Area
 Y2K Community Preparedness Group is overtly
 Christian. The Rev. Pat Robertson's Christian
 Broadcasting Network has extensive Y2K links on
 its Web site.

 And Dr. Gary North, whom some regard as the
 Paul Revere of the Y2K crisis, is prominent in the
 Religious Reconstruction movement, which
 advocates replacing the Constitution with biblical
 law. Dr. North used to live in Tyler, Texas, but he
 has moved to northern Arkansas, which, like eastern
 Oklahoma, offers solitude to separatists of various
 persuasions.

 "The millennial myth can take secular or religious
 forms," said Dr. Philip Lamy, a sociologist at
 Castleton State College in Vermont who studies
 millennial movements.

 Regardless of the form, he said, the driving force is
 angst about today's rapid social change - change as
 momentous as that experienced during the Industrial
 Revolution.

 "What a lot of millennial groups are trying to do is
 hold onto the past," Dr. Lamy said. "They are
 merely saying that they're afraid."

 Of course, fear is not an unreasonable response.

 "This is not a false issue," said Bill Wachel, a
 computer consultant who founded DFW Prep 2000,
 a forum in which industry representatives share
 information on the issue.

 "It's possible, yeah, that the whole world could
 come apart. Is it probable? No."

 Dr. Leon Kappelman of the University of North
 Texas is leading the charge for government to
 pressure crucial industries such as electric utilities,
 telecommunications and medicine to fix Y2K
 problems. He isn't anticipating doom, but he doubts
 that many Americans will escape unscathed.

 "I don't really know what the future is. I know there
 are serious risks," he said. "I expect life to be a little
 more difficult for awhile."

 He has no use for those who choose to flee.

 "Cowards would be a good word [for them]," he
 said. "Deserters."

 Dr. Landes, too, urges Americans to hang together
 rather than hang separately.

 "Y2K can be a gift," he said. "It's a test. How do we
 as a culture handle this - not only the problem, but
 the rhetoric surrounding the problem?"

 As Mr. Elder explored the cave he had chosen to
 demonstrate to a visitor the wisdom of his plan, he
 came upon artifacts of a earlier era's doomsday
 fears. Next to a sign designating the cavern as an
 official fallout shelter lay tins of 1950s-vintage
 survival rations.

 The tins were unopened and pocked with rust.

 (c) 1998 The Dallas Morning News
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 10:31:01 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: [FP] FW: Bill to Limit Nat'l ID Plan
Message-ID: <199809090224.TAA18290@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: "ScanThisNews" 
Subject: [FP] FW: Bill to Limit Nat'l ID Plan
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 22:09:53 -0500
To: "Scan This News Recipients List" 


[Forwarded message from:]
believer@telepath.com [mailto:believer@telepath.com]
Sent: Monday, May 05, 1997 3:12 PM
To: believer@telepath.com
Subject: Bill to Limit Nat'l ID Plan

---------------------------
NOTE TO LISTEES:  Remember:  LIMITING is NOT what we want.  Limiting will
only detail the terms and conditions under which a National ID *W*I*L*L* be
required.  We want no ID at all.  Let's make this clear to legislators.
They still don't get it.
---------------------------

Source:  Washington Post
http://search.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WAPO/19980904/V000365-090498-idx.htm
l

Senate Mulls Healthcare ID Proposal

By Cassandra Burrell
Associated Press Writer
Friday, September 4, 1998; 1:39 a.m. EDT

WASHINGTON (AP) -- A plan to assign every American a lifetime
health-care ID number, similar to a Social Security number, could face
new limits under a measure headed for Senate debate.

A provision introduced Thursday by Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison,
R-Texas, would prohibit the Health and Human Services Department
from going forward with the plan until Congress approves its specifics.

Critics say the system, being developed as part of the 1996 Health
Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, could invade privacy by
opening medical histories to insurers, employers and others. The law
guarantees that anyone changing or losing a job would be able to get
health insurance, even with a pre-existing medical condition.

``The plan, as HHS intended to carry it forward, raises questions of
excessive government involvement and control -- not to mention privacy,''
Hutchison said.

The Senate Appropriations Committee added Hutchison's amendment to
an $82 billion spending bill funding the Labor, Education and Health and
Human Services departments as well as several related agencies for the
fiscal year that begins Oct. 1.

The committee approved the overall bill with little debate and sent it to
the
Senate. But some members said they planned to introduce more
controversial issues into the bill during floor debate, including provisions
dealing with federal funding of single-sex classrooms and allowing
Medicare recipients to go outside the program for care not covered by the
plan.

President Clinton has threatened to veto a matching bill in the House
because it lacks money for some of his favorite programs, such as summer
jobs for poor youth and low-income heating assistance.

Also Thursday, the Senate resolved a dispute over staffing at the Federal
Election Commission, clearing the way for passage of a $29.9 billion
spending bill funding the Treasury Department and related agencies.

The Treasury bill was pulled from the Senate floor in late July because of
Democratic objections to a Republican amendment that would have made
it easier to remove the FEC's staff director and general counsel. With
resolution of the issue, the bill passed 91-5 Thursday without further
debate.

Introduced by Sen. Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., the disputed amendment
sought to limit to four years the currently open-ended terms of the two
officials and to require approval of four of the FEC's six commissioners
before the terms could be extended.

Each party selects three commissioners. Democrats, led by Sen. Carl
Levin of Michigan, contended the amendment would let one party remove
an official for no reason and undermine the agency's independence.

Under a compromise worked out with Levin, the current general counsel
and staff director would not have term limits, future service would be set
at six years with votes of only three commissioners required to approve an
extension.

The $27 billion House bill, which passed in July, does not include language
on the FEC staffers. Differences will have to be worked out in a
House-Senate conference.

The Senate bill, which would increase money for drug enforcement, gang
resistance and customer service by the Internal Revenue Service,
establishes spending at $7.85 billion for the IRS, $1.7 billion for the U.S.
Customs Service and $593 million for the Secret Service.

Like the House bill, it would freeze salaries for members of Congress but
would allow 3.6 percent cost-of-living raises for other federal workers.

It also was amended to require federal employee health plans that cover
prescription drugs to provide coverage for contraceptives.

 (c) Copyright 1998 The Associated Press

-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 10:38:59 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Carl Johnson Warrant and Complaint
In-Reply-To: <199809082346.TAA31245@camel8.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 6:40 PM -0700 9/8/98, Eric Cordian wrote:
> I'm amazed Arjen
>Lenstra isn't in the slammer for the "DigiCrime" parody, given the
>"knowlege and experience" of Mr. Investigator here.
>

I'm sometimes surprised I was never arrested for pulling off the "BlackNet"
secrets trading scheme. (Especially as it actually worked as I described
it....and to think some of the folks here think I've never built anything.)

As for the Carl Johnson document that John Young offers, I read it with
great interest, much more interest than I ever could muster for the rants
of Toto/Human Gus-Peter/Truthmonger.

As I'd been deleting nearly all of Toto's stuff unread, I missed all the
stuff about (allegedly) threatening to bomb the RCMP. I recall seeing his
"AP Bot" and "Dead Lucky" items, which came out before I was deleting all
of his stuff.

I suppose I agree with Eric's earlier point (snipped above) that mentioning
the actual names of judges or FBI agents or IRS inspectors in rants about
AP and AP bots is not a wise move. As with Bell's stuff, it makes for a
case that _possibly_ these agents and judges had something to fear. Were I
one of those judges or agents, I would tend to think that _possibly_ my
life was in danger.

Best to leave rants at the general, protected speech level, and to not get
into specifics of names and working habits of agents.

(I make it a point not to bother learning the names of any of these folks,
except high-visibility folks like Diane Feinswine, Janet Reno, Louis Freeh,
etc. This makes it hard for any of my generalized rants to be taken as
direct threats against local judges, agents, lawyers, etc.)

And if Toto or Carl Johnson did in fact plant a bomb....I guess he'll be
extradited to Canada after his trial here in the U.S. for the charges
described. And he may well get off on the U.S. charges, as it seems likely
that experts (like us, ironically) can testify that whatever point Toto
thought he was making, there was no chance that a working "dead pool" was
being demonstrated.

But Toto will probably make a plea, as Bell did.

--Tim May

"The tree of liberty must be watered periodically with the blood of
tyrants...."
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist              | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 08:02:45 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Carl Johnson Warrant and Complaint
Message-ID: <199809082346.TAA31245@camel8.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Thanks to anonymous we offer the arrest warrant and
complaint against Carl Edward Johnson:

   http://jya.com/usa-v-cej-wc.htm  (23K)

List Cypherpunks is spotlighted by the IRS complainant,
Jeff Gordon, who made Jim Bell famous. The list is 
quoted, logged, tracked, and cited for its hosting alleged death 
threat messages against federal officials, which were
PGP-authenticated and -decoded, and their style and content 
assessed for identity of the author, along with other allegations 
by the RCMP on what Carl may or may not have done up north 
and by the Secret Service on Carl may or may not have said 
out west.

We have also been told that Carl is known as "The King
of Country Porn" among admiring fans of his music.

Whether this has anything to do with the little-known person 
we're seeking information about is a mystery.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 08:40:57 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: usa-v-cej-wc.htm (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809090053.TAA12423@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Notice: mucho text deleted.

Forwarded message:

> X-within-URL: http://jya.com/usa-v-cej-wc.htm

>    criminal threats to kill, injure, obstruct, impede, threaten and
>    intimidate IRS

>    and other Government employees. I have also conducted numerous
>    investigations involving the use of computers and the Internet. Since

>    Western District of Washington. In the investigation of Mr. Bell, it
>    was discovered that he had posted a plan (titled "Assassination
>    Politics") on the Internet, offering users of the Internet a method
>    for anonymously funding the assassinations of IRS and other Government

>    Internet group known as the "Cypherpunks." During the investigation of

This guy has experience with the Internet and doesn't know the difference
between a group and a mailing list, what a maroon.

>    Bell I noted that Bell exchanged both private and public e-mail
>    messages with an unidentified person using the name "Toto."

Implying Bell was under surveillance.

>    residence. Shortly thereafter, a member of the Cypherpunks group
>    stated via the Internet that he had obtained a copy of the warrant and
>    return, and publicly posted them on the Internet.

And the point is?

>    Bell was arrested and charged with Corruptly Obstructing and Impeding

So I can non-corruptly obstruct and impede?

>    4. On June 23, 1997, an anonymous message was posted to the
>    Cypherpunks Internet mailing list. [A "mailing list" consists of the

Well, finaly got the terms right.

>    5. Based on my training and experience, I know that "Bot" is a slang
>    term for an automated computer program. I also know that "e$" and
>    "eCa$h" are slang terms for electronic or digital cash, which was a
...
>    maker or indorser [as written]. [By analogy, digital cash is like a
>    digital "poker chip" issued by a particular casino.]

Oh well, I knew he couldn't keep it straight.

>    6. On September 4, 1997, a second message involving "Dead Lucky" was
>    anonymously posted to the Cypherpunks group. This message stated in

This guy keeps using 'group' instead of 'mailing list', there is the
potential implication of conspiracy here...I wouldn't be surprised if just
about all of us weren't under surveillance at this point.

>    8. On December 9, 1997, an anonymous message was posted to the
>    Cypherpunks Internet mail group with the subject listed as "Encrypted
>    InterNet DEATH THREAT!!! / ATTN: Ninth District Judges / PASSWORD:
>    sog"[.] The body of the message was encrypted with the publicly
>    available encryption software PGP, and was initially unreadable. Using
>    PGP software and the password shown in the subject line of the
>    message, I was able to decrypt the message, which contained a
>    rambling, five-page statement, including the following:

>      I can also be tied into Jim Bell's Worldwide Conspiracy to
>      assassinate government authorities, through my implementation of an
>      Assassination Bot ..."

See I told you there was a conspiracy buried in there somewhere!

>    9. I noted that this message contained a PGP digital signature. From
>    my training and experience, I am aware that this digital signature is
>    used as a way to authenticate digital documents to make sure that they
>    are authored by the purported author and that no one has tampered with
>    them. When I checked the signature using only PGP software, the PGP
>    program was unable to identify it.

>    Only July 1, 1998, Royal Canadian
>    Mounted Police (RCMP) Investigator Steve Foster provided me with a PGP
>    "Secret Key Ring" which he stated he had obtained from a computer
>    which Canadian Customs authorities had seized from an individual by
>    the name of CARL EDWARD JOHNSON. [A "secret key ring" is a
>    user-generated code which allows for the encryption (and later
>    authentication) of computer-generated documents.] When I checked the
>    digital signature on the Internet death threat using the PGP software
>    and JOHNSON'S secret key ring, the computer identified the signature
>    as one of the signature keys stored in JOHNSON'S computer. Because
>    both the "private" and "public" portions of the "key" were stored on
>    JOHNSON'S computer, the message can be authenticated as having been
>    generated by the person who possessed this "secret key" and knew the
>    correct password. In other words, only the person possessing the
>    secret key found on JOHNSON'S computer could have generated the "death
>    threat" message.

>    10. I have also spoken by phone with Special Agent Jeremy Sheridan of
>    the United States Secret Service. Sheridan told me that on July 31,
>    1998, he located and interviewed Carl JOHNSON at 1800 West Magee, in
>    Tucson, Arizona. The address belongs to a Linda Reed, who, according
>    to Canadian police authorities, is a friend of JOHNSON'S. During this
>    interview JOHNSON admitted that he often wrote on the Internet and
>    among the names he used were Toto, C.J. Parker, and TruthMonger.
>    Johnson also stated that he had been using the Internet account of
>    Linda Reed. Sheridan showed JOHNSON a decrypted copy of the December
>    9, 1997 Internet message entitled "Encrypted InterNet DEATH THREAT!!!
>    / ATTN: Ninth district Court Judges / PASSWORD: sog." JOHNSON
>    acknowledge that he wrote it. JOHNSON also stated that he had
>    significant psychological problems.

Probably not a wise move, don't know about psychological problems but it
certainly demonstrates a lack of intelligence.

>    bomb that was discovered in the basement of the Estevan courthouse on
>    June 3, 1998. Block advised me that Carl JOHNSON has been formally
>    charged with placing the bomb and that a warrant for his arrest has
>    been issued in Canada. Block advised me that he believes that JOHNSON
>    fled to the United States after placing the bomb in the Estevan
>    courthouse.

That's impressive if true.

>    15. On June 10, 1998, an anonymous message was posted to the
>    Cypherpunks Internet group. In the message, it is stated that the
>    bomber "placed the bomb before embarking on a middle-leg of the

So that's why he came to Austin?


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 12:54:57 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: SCADA in power grid
Message-ID: <199809090318.UAA21915@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





this is from http://www.garynorth.com/y2k/detail_.cfm/2439


                     Gary North's Y2K Links and Forums

                            Summary and Comments

                       (feel free to mail this page)
      ----------------------------------------------------------------
       Category:  Power_Grid

           Date:  1998-08-29 13:57:30

        Subject:  The Convenient Lie:

            Link: http://y2ktimebomb.com/PP/RC/dm9834.htm

        Comment:  On August 27, I spoke before a meeting of 500
                  people -- 5% of a local town. At that meeting,
                  representatives of several industries spoke:
                  banking, telephone, electrical power.

                  When pressed by someone in the audience, the
                  representative of the power company insisted they
                  could run the entire company on manual systems
                  without compliant computers. Forget about
                  noncompliant chips. The company can do it manually.

                  I asked him straight: Can they run the SCADA
                  (supervisory control and data acquisition) system
                  without telecommunications? That's the computerized
                  system that tells them how much power is running
                  through the lines. "Yes," he said.

                  A week before I had been told by an engineer with a
                  large urban power company that without SCADA, they
                  would fry the lines permanently. "There is no way
                  we could run the system manually."

                  I guess engineers don't agree.

                  I told the audience this:

                  "No system can be switched to pre-computer manual
                  operations without training. Any outfit that claims
                  that it can be run manually had better have a
                  highly trained technical staff to take over in
                  2000. Does the outfit have a training manual? How
                  much training money has it budgeted?"

                  Any outfit that does not have the staff being
                  trained right now is lying when it says that it can
                  be run manually. It cannot be run manually by
                  phantom workers. The men who knew how to run it
                  manually were fired 30 years ago. The manual
                  systems were replaced. The industry did not spend
                  hundreds of billions of dollars on computerization
                  so as to have two separate operation systems. They
                  spent the money to get rid of manual systems.

                  Any time you hear some representative tell you his
                  public utility can be run manually, ask five
                  questions:

                  1. How many trained personnel do you need,
                  including substitutes, to run your system manually?

                  2. How many are currently undergoing training for
                  this task, and how many have finished it?

                  3. May I come in and see your training manual that
                  you use to train these people?

                  4. How much money has your company budgeted to
                  train this staff?

                  5. How much has already been spent?

                  You must call their bluff. They're lying. They have
                  no intention of trying to run anything manually.
                  It's just a PR ploy. It's Monica Lewinsky syndrome.
                  Nobody suffers any consequences for lying to the
                  public.

                  But can't they be sued for lying, i.e., misleading
                  the public? Not if all companies in the industry
                  collapse for the same reason. They will share the
                  blame, or pass it on to a higher authority: "An act
                  of God."

                  When you catch one of them in a lie this big, you
                  can rest assured: he knows that it can't be fixed
                  by anyone, so he knows he can't be successfully
                  sued.

                  Training to convert to manual systems won't work,
                  of course. The power industry can't be run
                  manually, and it's too late to fix the code.
                  Besides, nobody in the industry will pay any
                  attention to such warnings. But at least it lets
                  the industry know that you don't believe the lie
                  any more.

                  Dick Mills, who is a public optimist about the
                  power grid, recently issued a warning to the
                  industry: begin contingency planning. This includes
                  training. This is the best advice that anyone could
                  give the power industry -- not because the advice
                  could work at this late date, but because it's time
                  to call their bluff.

                  This is from Westergaard's site.

                  * * * * * * * * *

                  . . . Isn't there already a national emergency plan
                  in place for such as critical infrastructure such
                  as power? No, not to my knowledge. Please write and
                  tell me if I'm wrong.

                  Never before, has there been a threat to the power
                  system of such sweeping scope and magnitude as Y2K.
                  There was no need for a national electric-power
                  emergency plan. Prudence requires that we have such
                  a plan, not only for Y2K but also for other future
                  threats.

                  I foresee that this plan will need to span
                  national, state, local, public, private, utility
                  and non-utility boundaries. How might we accomplish
                  that? I've been told that existing presidential
                  executive orders allow the entire industry to be
                  nationalized at the stroke of a pen in case of
                  emergency. Thus the authority exists, but it will
                  do no good unless there are plans and trained
                  organizations in place to use it effectively.

                  There are numerous mitigating possibilities to be
                  considered. That is true of not only to electric
                  power but also to all industries and all facets of
                  the Y2K problem. . . .

                  It is already too late to finish Y2K remediation
                  for many companies, but it is not too late for
                  disaster preparations. To actually get practical
                  and practiced disaster preparedness plans in place,
                  we must accomplish three things. I see these three
                  as my working goals. I hope you do the same. . . .

                  We must plan, train, and practice the
                  implementation of emergency procedures. Those are
                  key elements of all emergency services like fire
                  and police. In the Y2K case, we have to combine
                  strangers into teams, invent new roles, and
                  practice. That takes time.

           Link:  http://y2ktimebomb.com/PP/RC/dm9834.htm

      ----------------------------------------------------------------
                       Return to Category: Power_Grid

                         Return to Main Categories

                            Return to Home Page




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: techsales@oreilly.com
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 11:41:39 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: WebSite Professional 2.3
Message-ID: <199809090329.UAA23899@rock.west.ora.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




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so I hope you'll invest a little time to play with it thoroughly.
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Hewlett-Packard		Sprint
Indiana University	Union Pacific Railroad
Intel			United States Geological Survey
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about its capabilities or functionality, please contact me
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can go to: http://software.oreilly.com/download/wsp23demo_download.html

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Thanks again, and have a great day!

--
Michelle Koff, techsales@oreilly.com
Technical Sales Associate
O'Reilly & Associates (http://software.oreilly.com)






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Eric Cordian 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 09:47:38 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Carl Johnson Warrant and Complaint
In-Reply-To: <199809082346.TAA31245@camel8.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <199809090140.UAA29195@wire.insync.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




> Thanks to anonymous we offer the arrest warrant and
> complaint against Carl Edward Johnson:

I conclude:

A. There actually exist federal investigators who have nothing
   better to do with their lives than read the complete writings
   of the Performance Artists Sometimes Known as "Toto," and
   engage in endless mental masturbation over the hidden messages
   they imagine to be contained therein. 

B. When writing parody on the subject of AP, it is best not to 
   employ the names of actual federal slackers, lest the clueless
   investigators actually believe them to be targeted in some fashion. 

The part where he explains digital cash and how he clicked on the AP
Web Form almost rises to the AOL level of stupidity.  I'm amazed Arjen
Lenstra isn't in the slammer for the "DigiCrime" parody, given the
"knowlege and experience" of Mr. Investigator here. 

-- 
Sponsor the DES Analytic Crack Project
http://www.cyberspace.org/~enoch/crakfaq.html












From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 09:45:09 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Movie/Research Research (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809090201.VAA12886@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: WGKOPP@aol.com
> Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 21:33:54 EDT
> Subject: Movie/Research Research

> The "villians" are charging people $15 (from their credit card - or another
> source) to download or "watch"  a video clip of highly illicit material, from
> a specific website.
> Our "protagonist" has to stop these "video's" and the people behind them, but,
> they cannot seem to trace them, or where the funds are going. 
> 
> How can this be done? How can we realistically make it so that origins and/or
> location & authors of the website are untraceable. Also, that the funds are
> untraceable.

You'd need to use something like an eternity server or a data haven. These
allow one to obtain information from an unknown 3rd party based on a
distributed network of servers and search engines.

All transactions of e$ would need to go through an anonymous remailer of
some sort that interfaced to a suitable bank handlding EFT's via the
Internet.

The web surfing could be implimented via a CROWDS style mechanism.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: tcmay@got.net (Tim May)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 13:05:14 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: RUSSIAN DEFECTOR WARNS OF PRE-POSITIONED PORTABLE NUKES
In-Reply-To: <199809082136.VAA01195@earth.wazoo.com>
Message-ID: <199809090406.VAA31614@always.got.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




An interesting report from a GRU defector. How much of it is true? How
much is rehashed?

In any case, somebody must have cursed us, because we truly do live in
interesting times. Y2K, terrorism, busts of cypherpunks, martial law
contingency plans, a meltdown of Asian and Russian economies (with Latin
America apparently headed down the same drain), Asama bin Laden, VX nerve
gas, Ebola being developed in weapons labs, and on and on.

I'm glad I live far away from safe targets and have accumulated enough
supplies to "hunker" down for a long time.

There are two articles here, both interesting.

--Tim May


In article <199809082136.VAA01195@earth.wazoo.com>, Anonymous
 wrote:

> Colonel Stanislav Lunev, Russian GRU defector talks about the BACKPACK NUKES
> on KSFO, Geoff Metcalf Show
> 
> KSFO 560 AM San Francisco, Geoff Metcalf Show
> 
> GUEST:Colonel Stanislav Lunev, Russian GRU defector, author of "Through the
> Eyes of the Enemy"
> 
> SUMMARY OF LUNEV'S REMARKS
> 
> Boris Yelstin is a mafia tool, an alcoholic who has not at all decreased his
> habit of drinking who "cannot appear more than one hour in public or he
> looses control over himself". He is a "decoration of power" controlled by
> criminals and industrial tycoons who rule Russia behind the scenes.
> 
> "Russia as Friend" is a theme slavishly pursued by breathless Western-types,
> but in fact is an illusion. Only 2 months ago a large secret Soviet Air Base
> conducted a very large-scale simulation of all-out nuclear with the West. A
> similar exercise undertaken by Soviet Northern Fleet only 2 weeks ago.
> 
> In case of outbreak of war (something that Lunev sees as a greater danger
> NOW than at any time in the past), portable containers of chemical,
> biological, and nuclear for use by Spetnaz against command and control
> centers, water and air supplies, and specific individuals in a "decapitory
> strike"-type scenario.
> 
> Prior to hostilities, "students and businessmen" infiltrate into the US
> using regular airlines, discard their disguises, and proceed to weapon
> storage sites and then onto final targets.
> 
> 100 of these weapons are stored outside the former Soviet Union.
> 
> 57 main cells of industrial techno-snooping exist around the San Francisco
> Bay Area.
> 
> In February '97, Boris Yelstin gave a special order to Russian intelligence
> to dramatically increase industrial espionage against the USA. Lunev
> estimates that just in the last several years, espionage within America has
> roughly doubled.
> 
> Lunev indicates that China and Russia have entered into substantial, formal
> cooperation in their espionage efforts against the USA. He adds that in the
> outbreak of war, both countries could fight together against America.
> 
> Metcalf closes by saying that Lunev's book can be ordered by calling
> 1-888-606-0614.
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> [www.FreeRepublic.com]
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> USG Ignores Soviet Special Troops Inside Our Borders
> by Neil C. Livingston and M. K. Pilgrim
> 
> The following scenario outlining typical Spetsnaz-type operations
> prior to a Soviet main-force incursion into a foreign country comes
> from unclassified U.S. government documents.
> 
> "An unconventional warefare scenario: The following hypothetical
> scenario illustrates the employment concept for the full exploitation
> of Soviet UW [unconventional warefare] assets.
> 
> "In support of a coordinated attack, air-dropped or air-landed GRU
> special purpose teams would be introduced into their respective target
> areas some days prior to H-hour. Special KGB sabotage teams would have
> been infiltrated over a longer period of time by clandestine methods
> to include the use of international commercial travel. These sabotage
> teams could be prepared to begin their operations well before the
> enemy's rear area security apparatus can be fully alerted. In the
> pre-war period, some KGB personnel will seek to undermine national
> resistance through political measures.
> 
> "Sabotage teams will begin isolated acts of sabotage such as
> destroying a key bridge. In addition, KGB teams will attempt to create
> chaos at major ports and distrupt communications.
> 
> "Shortly before D-day, additional sabotage teams will be inserted and
> the majority of `sleeper agents' activated.
> 
> "Sabotage equipment can be smuggled into a country by any number of
> secret methods and stored in hidden, but easily accessible, caches.
> Smuggling techniques may include the offshore dropping of waterproof
> containers from ships and submarines. In accordance with the
> prearranged signals, they will be recovered and stored by clandestine
> support personnel.
> 
> "Sensitive or fragil equipment (electronics material, detonators, and
> communication devices) can be brought into the country by diplomatic
> pouch and made available to the teams through established procedures.
> 
> "Teams will attempt tp place their explosives and incendiary devices
> on the targets and set them to detonate at H-hour. All efforts will be
> made to prevent association of these acts with the USSR in order to
> maintain the element of surprise for the main attack. Immediately
> prior to H-hour, the UW teams will prepare to:
>   * Locate and destroy nuclear capable weaponry.
>   * Jam radar installations.
>   * Kidnap or assassinate key political-military leadership.
>   * Seize or destroy radio and TV broadcasting facilities.
> 
> "At H-hour a wide spectrum of sabotage actions will be initiated."
> 
> 
> http://www.icom.net/~tachyon/military/spetsnaz.html
> Soldier of Fortune
> January 1988
> 
> SOF SOVIET SPECIAL OPS
> SPETSNAZ INVADES AMERICA
> USG Ignores Soviet Special Troops Inside Our Borders




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 13:07:28 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: If there's a trial will some of us be witnesses?
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




If Carl Johnson comes to trial, presumably both sides will call expert
witnesses.

So, who will these witnesses be? Ironically, we are almost certainly the
most qualified witnesses on the planet in these issues.

However, I expect we are too disreputable, to either side, to be called.
Instead, they'll likely call on peripheral players like Dorothy Denning to
explain to the jury what AP is. Or perhaps the "Science Applications Inc."
lightweight who attempted to analyze anonymity and remailers for a
conference paper a year or two ago.

Food for thought.

I'm not sure how I'd react if either side called on me to act as witness.
And if they subpoenaed me, I suppose I'd have to spend a few kilobucks to
hire some lawyer to explain to me how and when I could take the Fifth.
(That's what it's come to, with lawyers needed at every stage.)

--Tim May

"The tree of liberty must be watered periodically with the blood of
tyrants...."
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist              | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Albert P. Franco, II" 
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 19:29:01 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Seed to clone himself, one way or another [CNN]
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980908212730.0069b90c@apf2.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>From: Jim Choate 
>
>Hi,
>
>It seems that scientist in general may soon be forced to roam from country
>to country to practice their work.
>
>Shades of Neuromancer. I am more and more convinced that Gibson's book, and
>it's social commentary, is right on the mark.
>
>Forwarded message:
>
>> X-within-URL: http://www.cnn.com/TECH/science/9809/07/clone.seed.ap/
>
>>           CHICAGO PHYSICIST SAYS HE'LL CLONE HIMSELF WITH WIFE'S HELP
>>                                        
>>    Dr. Richard Seed Richard Seed   September 7, 1998
>>    Web posted at: 3:50 a.m. EDT (0750 GMT)
>>    
>>    BOSTON (AP) -- A physicist with three Harvard degrees but no medical
>>    license said he is ready to begin the first step toward immortality:
>>    he will clone himself.
>
>[text deleted]
>
>>    Seed has said that if Congress bans cloning, he will move his
>>    operation to Tijuana, Mexico.
>

But if the feds pull similar bullshit as with crypto work he'll have to
give up US citizenship to do the work. The regs for crypto appear to make
it such that even if I live permanently outside the US I can not work on or
produce crypto related products even if they are based on non-US
technologies. It seems that being a citizen of the US is less and less
attractive every day...

Albert P. Franco, II




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: WGKOPP@aol.com
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 09:39:15 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Movie/Research Research
Message-ID: <22a37099.35f5db02@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Hi, 

I'm a screenwriter in Los Angeles and I'm currently working on a psychological
thriller. I'm trying to research how a particular thing could be done, and I
cannot seem to find precisely what I'm looking for. You are surely highly
learned individual, and I wonder if I could pick your brains for a moment.

Here is the situation I need help with:-

The "villians" are charging people $15 (from their credit card - or another
source) to download or "watch"  a video clip of highly illicit material, from
a specific website.
Our "protagonist" has to stop these "video's" and the people behind them, but,
they cannot seem to trace them, or where the funds are going. 

How can this be done? How can we realistically make it so that origins and/or
location & authors of the website are untraceable. Also, that the funds are
untraceable.

The only way our protagonist can find the villains, is by revealing a terrible
secret from his past, something he's tried desperately to forget and put
behind him. He eventually does catch the villains, but not electronically. He
catches them, by reliving his painful past.

Do you have any idea's?

If so, I'd be most grateful if you could share them with me. Once the
screenplay is completed and hopefully sold, I'm sure the very least I could
offer is a film credit. 

Yours,

Wayne Kopping




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 12:57:20 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Citizenship silliness.  Re: e$: crypto-expatriatism
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 9:25 PM -0700 9/8/98, William H. Geiger III wrote:
\
>In , on 09/08/98
>   at 06:17 PM, Petro  said:
>
>>	No, more like a get off our fucking land.
>
>Sure thing, and where you live, exactly who's land was it before you got
>there?

Well, I take a lot more seriously the claims of a Palestinian orange grower
in Jaffa who is farming land that has been in his family for many
generations than I do the claim of an Auschwitz survivor from Krakow who
claims that YHVH or some other bearded Sky Father gave his lineage the
entire land 3000 years ago.

What was done to the Jews by Hitler in WWII was horrible. But the solution
was not to take ethnic Northern Europeans (much more of their genetic
material is Russian, Latvian, Polish, northern European in general, than is
Semitic) and resettle them on the lands of people who've actually been
living in the area and farming it for at least the past several
generations, and probably closer to the past few thousand years. A claim
that Yahweh "gave" Palestine to those who have been living in Poland for a
thousand years is just pure bullshit.

And it wouldn't have happened had the victorious superpowers decided the
sand niggers in Palestine could be kicked off their land. (I have no beef
with those Jews who peacefully bought land in Palestine prior to this mass
resettlement.)

Frankly, I've always thought the suitable place for the Allies to have
resettled the Jews--to the extent it was our business at all--was Germany
itself. Plenty of conquered villages, plenty of seized castles and villas
and chalets.

And if the Jews thought this was too "icky," to be resettled in the land of
their oppression, and insisted instead that the Alllies push the sand
niggers out of their orange groves...well, fuck 'em. Given 'em a loaf of
bread and wish them good luck and send them on their way.

(And let us not forget the actions of the Stern Gang and such in blowing up
the King David Hotel.)

The chickens are coming home to roost.

--Tim May


"The tree of liberty must be watered periodically with the blood of
tyrants...."
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist              | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 10:27:35 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Tax silliness (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809090245.VAA13237@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 19:04:02 -0700
> From: Tim May 
> Subject: Re: Tax silliness

> not issued a royal decree absolving the perpetrator of taxes, they could
> have collected taxes on the guy who got the ball and then taxes on the guy
> who had the ball given to him. Through the miracle of multiple taxation,
> the IRS gets it all....)

That isn't accurate. The tax was a 'gift tax' and the ONLY person required
to pay tax on it is the person GIVING the gift.

Had you actualy read the announcement by the IRS it states very clearly that
the reciever is NOT responsible for any taxes.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 07:12:23 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Toto, AP and Jim Bell? (Re: Space Aliens Return my Drugs!)
In-Reply-To: <199809050903.KAA02997@server.eternity.org>
Message-ID: <199809082055.VAA14004@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Recently I speculated that Toto may have been locked up due to some
connection with Jim Bell:

I wrote:
> I've been searching my cp archives trying to figure out if there has
> been any connection between Toto and Jim Bell/AP, as Alia Johnson
> said that she thought Toto was locked up due to posts about AP.

someone who has been in contact with Jim Bell tells me that Jim did
not know Toto.

Adam




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 14:47:43 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Cypherpunks as a Continuing Criminal Enterprise?
In-Reply-To: <199809082136.VAA01195@earth.wazoo.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Could our group be charged as a "continuing criminal enterprise" under the
RICO statute?

It occurs to me that if Carl Johnson, who is linked several times to our
group/list in the court documents, is successfully prosecuted,then the Feds
may be able to cite both Bell and Johnson as evidence of a conspiracy.

Which probably wouldn't be too hard to prove, as many of us have admitted
to conspiring mightily to undermine various institutions. (And we even use
encypted e-mail, the very essence of a secret conspiracy.)

It might be fun to see them try this. Would they charge some of us as
ringleaders? Or would they declare the entity itself an illegal
organization? (As they have done with various cultural, political, and even
religous groups, like Hezbollah, the Aum religion, etc.)

Interesting times.

--Tim May

"The tree of liberty must be watered periodically with the blood of
tyrants...."
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist              | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 11:21:49 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Gift taxes...
Message-ID: <199809090336.WAA13892@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

>    "The giver is responsible for paying any applicable tax on any large
>    gift," IRS spokesman Steven Pyrek said Monday.
>    
>    A baseball is owned by Major League Baseball until it leaves the
>    field. It is then owned by the fan who comes up with it.
>    
>    A gift tax applies to any property given away that is worth $10,000 or
>    more. The person receiving the gift owes no taxes.
>    
>    Under the federal tax code, the first $625,000 would be exempt because
>    of the lifetime tax credit provided to every individual. So if the
>    ball is deemed to be worth $1 million, the fan would owe at least 40
>    percent of the remaining $375,000, or $150,000, to the government.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 11:33:59 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Taxes & baseball...
Message-ID: <199809090345.WAA13954@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Hi,

It occurs to me that if the fan who caught the ball and then gave it to
McGyer  had to pay a gift tax then so would the NLB, after all it was their
ball until it left the field at which point they give it to the fan who
catches it.

I wonder what made the IRS back down from a cool 1.2M...?


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Edwin E. Smith" 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 13:37:29 +0800
To: John Young 
Subject: Re: Carl Johnson Warrant and Complaint
In-Reply-To: <199809082346.TAA31245@camel8.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980908230841.007f4360@mailhost.IntNet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I read the arrest warrant and a couple of things strike me as 
strange.

1. Why would anyone post an encrypted message along with the password 
to decrypt it?

2. I thought the public portion of a key was required to authenticate 
a signature, the secret part is only used to sign a message.

I believe that anyone who is now subscribed to the cypherpunks list 
is now under surveilance. I suspected that this might be true but now 
my belief is confirmed.

Edwin



At 07:40 PM 9/8/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Thanks to anonymous we offer the arrest warrant and
>complaint against Carl Edward Johnson:
>
>   http://jya.com/usa-v-cej-wc.htm  (23K)
>
>List Cypherpunks is spotlighted by the IRS complainant,
>Jeff Gordon, who made Jim Bell famous. The list is 
>quoted, logged, tracked, and cited for its hosting alleged death 
>threat messages against federal officials, which were
>PGP-authenticated and -decoded, and their style and content 
>assessed for identity of the author, along with other allegations 
>by the RCMP on what Carl may or may not have done up north 
>and by the Secret Service on Carl may or may not have said 
>out west.
>
>We have also been told that Carl is known as "The King
>of Country Porn" among admiring fans of his music.
>
>Whether this has anything to do with the little-known person 
>we're seeking information about is a mystery.
>
>
>
>
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0
Charset: noconv

iQA/AwUBNfXxN0mNf6b56PAtEQLWKgCgiU1Gxehlqmbo2/z99YEOHA3unKUAnjbL
8u1MirEV69rZ2ZGvf3GH8wIt
=7cvz
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 12:04:14 +0800
To: austin-cpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Austin Cypherpunks)
Subject: Austin: Meet on Wed. Sept. 16, 1998 (new location)
Message-ID: <199809090421.XAA14309@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Hi,

The next physical meet will be held on Wed. Sept. 16, 1998 from 7-8pm (or
later).

We are meeting at the Korea House across the street from The Yellow Rose on
N. Lamar. If you need directions please send a request to
austin-cpunks@ssz.com.

I am sure there will be some discussion about Toto as well as the database
project we've been half-heartedly working on (if only work didn't take so
much time).


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 12:19:40 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: Citizenship silliness.  Re: e$: crypto-expatriatism (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199809082359.SAA12044@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <199809090416.AAA25585@domains.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In <199809082359.SAA12044@einstein.ssz.com>, on 09/08/98 
   at 06:59 PM, Jim Choate  said:

>Forwarded message:

>> Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 18:17:45 -0500
>> From: Petro 
>> Subject: Re: Citizenship silliness.  Re: e$: crypto-expatriatism

>> planet and take all that fucking oil with them.

>I wonder how the new realization that the calthrate deposits in the ocean
>bottem off the continental shelf make fine fuel and it's replenishable
>and may be of a larger quantity than the oil reserves will effect the
>power balance.

Once an alternative fuel source is discovered that is more economical than
oil, the arabs will slip back into obscurity.

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: Bugs come in through open Windows.

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Charset: cp850
Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000

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LW5yRENnvV8=
=c4/s
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 12:37:45 +0800
To: Petro 
Subject: Re: Citizenship silliness.  Re: e$: crypto-expatriatism
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199809090418.AAA25605@domains.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In , on 09/08/98 
   at 06:17 PM, Petro  said:

>	No, more like a get off our fucking land.

Sure thing, and where you live, exactly who's land was it before you got
there?

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: If at first you don't succeed, work for Microsoft.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3a-sha1
Charset: cp850
Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000

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SbKzSWS/EY2I6yQyDDw9ajGvvjOtZzqyqhGshfpXCWSgAmd/TyZ+pSAR/cjEFOru
cQSuklDR/Bb5i2ogqNNydaHXC8SzzaZYkqt+FUrdME7nZll6LAfad9jThliEDyDv
3F3RP/mV9wQ=
=yrE9
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: BMM 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 11:41:23 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: Taxes & baseball...
In-Reply-To: <199809090345.WAA13954@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



This is a rhetorical question, yes?

On Tue, 8 Sep 1998, Jim Choate wrote:

> I wonder what made the IRS back down from a cool 1.2M...?




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William J. Hartwell" 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 15:56:45 +0800
To: Ryan Lackey 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980909005149.0081d100@mail.xroads.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 02:29 PM 9/8/98 -0400, Ryan Lackey wrote:
>Is anyone else interested in setting up a radio net......


I have been thinking allot about this over the last couple of months. 
I have subscribed to a packet radio mailing list
(linux-hams@vger.rutgers.edu (majordomo@vger.rutgers.edu)) just to lurk so
I could get a feel for what it 
took to set such a network up. 

Much of my family are hams and have dabbled in packet radio at one time or
another. 
They say once set up it works well (slow but dependable) and is an ideal
way to 
carry non-real-time traffic in an emergency.

As far as a secure network, that's why I lurk in this list. :-)

If such a thing should ever be outlawed or restricted most Hams I know are
law abiding 
citizens and would more than likely conform (No Ham should take offence to
this, its 
meant with the best intentions and respect). 

I think a radio network linked to the Amateur networks sending secure
packets, 
using tunneling or maybe just encrypted traffic (There may be some FCC
rules regarding this.
 I don't want to break any laws so am still looking into this part.) with
nodes connected to the internet (or other network as well ... Remember
FIDOnet) would be a good idea. 

The Ham networks will probably stand up well in the case of a national
emergency. That's something these folks are real good at.

In the off chance that the telecommunications Infrastructure becomes
unavailable due to political or other reasons, some of which have been
discussed quite often here. This network could break off and stand on its
own carrying important traffic for those whose need to communicate with
loved ones and business associates would be worth whatever risk might
befall them.

If Y2K turns out to be a real problem (as I believe it might) or something
else happens. I plan on still being able to communicate with my loved ones;
business associates, and hopefully still get this list. :-)

I plan on adding another dedicated LINUX box for this in the near future
and will be looking for others with the same types of concerns to link with.  

>I think the cost would be something like $1-5k per station, and it could
>be done in a fairly turnkey fashion. 

I think it would be considerably less money wise, and still could be done
properly.

I would be interested in hearing anyone's thoughts on this and maybe
communicating with other like-minded individuals off list. Since this list
seems to have attracted a lot of attention from the authorities as of late. 

I wonder what the ratio of cypherpunks to spooks (IRS, FBI, NSA, British
Intelligence, Government informants, and assorted other agent types) on
this list is now :-)

Would all the spooks please raise your hands?   

You... in the back listening quietly....  Is that you Inspector Gordon? :-)


--
Bill H.
billh@ibag.com




--
					William J. Hartwell
					   (602)987-8436
					  Queencreek, Az.

billh@ibag.com			billh@interdem.com		billh@hartwell.net




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 16:10:17 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980909010417.00a5b840@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>> not issued a royal decree absolving the perpetrator of taxes, they could
>> have collected taxes on the guy who got the ball and then taxes on the guy
>> who had the ball given to him. Through the miracle of multiple taxation,
>> the IRS gets it all....)

Of course, the guy who has the ball can argue, if he chooses to return it,
that it doesn't belong to him, and he's returning it to its owner,
the guy who made it worth $250K.  The IRS would have a hard time arguing
some legally-defined version of "finders keepers", since it was obvious
at any point whose ball it might be.

(Then there's the question of whether the ball really belongs to the
ballpark or one or the other team, and since most professional ballparks are
quasi-governmentally owned, the local government may want a large cut...)
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: HyperReal-Anon 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 12:01:37 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Any good hacking sites?
Message-ID: <0022261586779894a81c52a54603b461@anonymous>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Tue, 8 Sep 1998, M I T Flunky wrote:

> 
> hey all,

Hey, d00d! What be happenin'? My homies and my bro's are just a hangin',
man! We be k-rad kool, d00d!

> 
> any1 know of any good hacking sites that teach u the basics and stuff?

Find somebody who has been the attacker in a recent axe murder. He'll be
more than happy to teach you the basics and stuff, I'm sure, particularly
if you lock yourself in stocks first.

> also, any1 here into AOL hacking???

I prefer a chainsaw, myself. It does cause a bit of a mess, but the mess
is still preferable to the AOLholes like yourself.

> 
> thanx,
> ~Fallen Angel

No pro', bro',
~LamenessMonger

> 
> _____________________________________________________________________
> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.

Apparently you don't need a clue either.

> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com

Well, they don't punctuate the end of the sentence, but at least they put
the protocol specifier on.

> Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Or at (800) 6NO-CLUE.

LamenessMonger






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 19:04:01 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Dear Mr Gordon,

   When I checked the
   digital signature on the Internet death threat using the PGP software
   and JOHNSON'S secret key ring, the computer identified the signature
   as one of the signature keys stored in JOHNSON'S computer. Because
   both the "private" and "public" portions of the "key" were stored on
   JOHNSON'S computer, the message can be authenticated as having been
   generated by the person who possessed this "secret key" and knew the
   correct password. In other words, only the person possessing the
   secret key found on JOHNSON'S computer could have generated the "death
   threat" message.

Why would you claim only one person possessed the secret key? As you
doubtlessly know, some of the TruthMonger secret keys have been posted
to Cypherpunks anonymously. This is not authentication. Thank you.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 12:47:52 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Netly News on Nutly News
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain






http://cgi.pathfinder.com/netly/0,2326,201980909-14593,00.html

   The Arrest of the Nutly Bomber 
   By Declan McCullagh (declan@well.com)
   
   [Part I of a Series For two years a pair of anonymous Net crackpots
   have been posting angry tirades to a cryptography discussion list
   under a takeoff of Netly called "Nutly News." Now the FBI and Royal
   Canadian Mounted Police say that a digital signature connects them to
   a bomb discovered last June in a Canadian courthouse.]
   
   It was about 5 p.m. on August 18. Carl Johnson, 49, was beating the
   heat inside the Rialto Theater in what passes for downtown Tuscon,
   Ariz. That morning a friend had tipped off Johnson that the police    
   were trying to find him, but for now he had something else on his
   mind: his music. The itinerant musician and writer had spent the last
   month furiously scribbling lyrics, friends say, and he wanted a loan
   from someone he knew who worked at the theater. It was for some
   recording work, Johnson explained. This was going be his third album,
   after "My Way or the Highway" and "Please! Stop Me Before I Sing
   Again."
  
   But when Johnson left the Rialto, his musical career was cut short by
   two federal agents from the IRS's internal security division. They
   arrested him on charges of Internet threats against federal judges and
   police. The Canadians wanted Johnson, too, on charges of planting a
   bomb in a Saskatchewan courthouse.

   [...]





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "sixdegrees"
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 19:06:39 +0800
To: "Joe Cypherpunk"
Subject: Your new password
Message-ID: <199809091043.DAA16307@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Name: Joe Cypherpunk
sixdegrees password: tapesilk

Congratulations Joe. You're well on your way to 
becoming a full sixdegrees(tm) member. Here is your member 
password: tapesilk. Use it to log-in on the home page 
at the sixdegrees Web site, http://www.sixdegrees.com. 
We'll ask you for a little more information to complete your 
registration, and then you'll be ready to start networking. 

It's important that you return to the site and log-in. Your 
membership will not be complete until you do so.

Once you've successfully logged in with your password, just go 
to Personal Profile and you'll be able to choose your own 
password.

Thanks for becoming part of sixdegrees. We're looking forward 
to seeing you at the site. 

====================================================================
PLEASE NOTE: All replies to this address are processed by a computer.
If you believe you received this e-mail in error, and it was not your 
intention to become a sixdegrees member, or if you have any problems, 
questions or requests send an e-mail to issues@sixdegrees.com
and someone will get back to you as soon as possible.
====================================================================


E.SI.BAM.1




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 20:22:20 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: radio net (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809091239.HAA15369@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 00:51:49 -0700
> From: "William J. Hartwell" 
> Subject: Re: radio net

> I think a radio network linked to the Amateur networks sending secure
> packets, 
> using tunneling or maybe just encrypted traffic (There may be some FCC
> rules regarding this.

The FCC prohibits the transmission of encrypted data via analog or digital
signals by amateurs.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 20:32:02 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: NEW TRAVEL INFO -- Worldwide Caution (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809091244.HAA15435@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:
>From owner-travel-advisories@stolaf.edu Wed Sep  9 03:16:16 1998
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 16:22:27 -0400
From: owner-travel-advisories 
Subject: NEW TRAVEL INFO -- Worldwide Caution
Sender: "U.S. Department of State" <76702.1202@compuserve.com>
To: travel-advisories@stolaf.edu
Message-ID: <199809041625_MC2-5871-DEBE@compuserve.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
Precedence: bulk
X-List-Info: LN=travel-advisories WHOM=76702.1202@compuserve.com

STATE DEPARTMENT TRAVEL INFORMATION - Worldwide Caution
============================================================
PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENT - WORLDWIDE CAUTION
 September 4, 1998


U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE
Office of the Spokesman


In light of the bombings of the U.S. Embassies in Nairobi, Kenya 
and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania on August 7, 1998 and the U.S. air 
strikes in Afghanistan and Sudan on August 20, 1998, the potential 
for retaliatory acts against Americans and American interests 
exists.  In addition, terrorists, including Osama Bin Ladin, 
continue their threats against the United States and have not 
distinguished between military and civilian targets.  We take these 
threats seriously.  The U.S. has increased security at United States 
Government facilities worldwide and a number of our posts have 
suspended or limited services to the public.

The Department of State reminds Americans to maintain a high level 
of vigilance and to take appropriate steps to increase their 
security awareness to lessen their vulnerability.  Americans should 
maintain a low profile, vary routes and times for all required 
travel, and treat mail from unfamiliar sources with suspicion.

American citizens traveling abroad should contact the nearest U.S. 
embassy or consulate by telephone or fax for up-to-date information 
on security conditions.  Current information on post operations is 
also available on the Internet at http://travel.state.gov.  In 
addition, U.S. citizens planning to travel abroad should consult the 
Department of State's Public Announcements, Travel Warnings, 
Consular Information Sheets, and regional travel brochures.

This Public Announcement replaces the August 20, 1998, Public 
Announcement Worldwide Caution and expires on December 4, 1998.

----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- -----
The "travel-advisories@stolaf.edu" mailing list is the official Internet and
BITNET distribution point for the U.S. State Department Travel Warnings and
Consular Information Sheets.  To unsubscribe, send a message containing the
word "unsubscribe" to:	travel-advisories-request@stolaf.edu

Archives of past "travel-advisories" postings are available at the URL:
"http://www.stolaf.edu/network/travel-advisories.html" or via Gopher:
gopher.stolaf.edu, Internet Resources/US-State-Department-Travel-Advisories




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Gregg Housh 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 21:13:41 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: RE: Any good hacking sites?
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



any1 not1ce th4t jun0 1s ju5t a5 b4d a5 aol?

Gregg
"If your going to use the net, might as well exploit little children."
	- Anonymous

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	kamikaze23@juno.com [SMTP:kamikaze23@juno.com]
> Sent:	Tuesday, September 08, 1998 5:22 PM
> To:	cypherpunks@toad.com
> Subject:	Any good hacking sites?
> 
> hey all,
> 
> any1 know of any good hacking sites that teach u the basics and stuff?
> 
> also, any1 here into AOL hacking???
> 
> thanx,
> ~Fallen Angel
> 
> _____________________________________________________________________
> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
> Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Brian W. Buchanan" 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 23:12:05 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: radio net (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199809091239.HAA15369@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Wed, 9 Sep 1998, Jim Choate wrote:

> > Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 00:51:49 -0700
> > From: "William J. Hartwell" 
> > Subject: Re: radio net
> 
> > I think a radio network linked to the Amateur networks sending secure
> > packets, 
> > using tunneling or maybe just encrypted traffic (There may be some FCC
> > rules regarding this.
> 
> The FCC prohibits the transmission of encrypted data via analog or digital
> signals by amateurs.

I'd love to see them try to enforce that.  What about chaffing and
winnowing?  Stego?  Transmission of random noise? ;)  Anyone have the text
of the actual rules concerning this?

-- 
Brian Buchanan                                      brian@smarter.than.nu

Never believe that you know the whole story.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "sixdegrees"<661850g1@auto.sixdegrees.com>
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 20:09:49 +0800
To: "Ivan Cypherpunk"
Subject: Joe Cypherpunk
Message-ID: <199809091200.IAA18283@www.video-collage.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Name: Ivan Cypherpunk
E-Mail Address: cypherpunks@algebra.com
sixdegrees Password: listhome

Hi. You've been sponsored as "Significant Other" by Joe Cypherpunk 
as part of something called sixdegrees, one of the fastest growing 
phenomena on the Web, located at http://www.sixdegrees.com

You may have already heard of the six degrees of separation concept 
- where everyone on the planet is connected to each other through 
fewer than 6 people. Well, we haven't quite connected the whole 
world yet, but there are over a million people participating, and 
over 900,000 of them are connected in one giant chain. 

And, just by confirming your relationship with Joe, you can 
instantly tap into this interconnected community of interesting people 
from all over the world.

So what? Well, by getting connected, you can come to the Web site 
(which is completely FREE) and use a whole variety of valuable, fun 
and intriguing services that make use of this massive chain of 
connections.

You can come see who's logged on the site right now and when you 
find someone interesting, we'll show you exactly how you're 
connected no matter how many degrees it takes, and then you can 
instant message them. 

You can also find out how you're connected to that head of personnel 
at the big firm where you've been trying to get your foot in the 
door. 

You can chat with people from around the globe and then see who you
know in common. 

You can post burning questions on your own personalized bulletin 
board and get valuable answers from your "circle" (your friends 
and friends of friends). 

You can even get Movie recommendations from the people you're 
connected to.

So, stop by the site at http://www.sixdegrees.com to learn more and 
give it a try. (You can log in with this password: listhome). 

====================================================================

You can also get things started and get yourself connected right 
from this e-mail: 

** To confirm your relationship with Joe, just send a reply 
   that says only CONFIRM on the first line of the message body

*  To deny this particular relationship (but keep open the
   possibility of joining sixdegrees if the concept intrigues you) 
   send a reply that says only DENY

*  And, if you'd like to make sure you don't hear from us again 
   (even if somebody else you know lists you as a contact) then 
   simply send a reply which says REMOVE in the SUBJECT LINE so 
   we can process your request right away

Thanks, and we look forward to seeing you at sixdegrees.

====================================================================

And, if you're really ambitious, you can get your network of 
connections growing right away. Just list the people you think might 
be interested in participating in sixdegrees and we'll contact them 
with an e-mail like this one which mentions your name and invites 
them to join.

Just follow these directions:

*  Click your mail program's REPLY button. 

*  On the FIRST line of the message body of the reply e-mail that 
   opens, type only the word CONFIRM to let us know that you 
   are in fact Joe's Significant Other.

*  On the next line of the message body list the first and last 
   names and e-mail addresses of the people you'd like to invite
   (you can list as many as you'd like - but we recommend you list 
   at least two), and the relationship numbers that correspond 
   with how those people are related to you. 

MAKE SURE:  

*  That the first name, last name, e-mail address and relationship 
   number are separated by SEMI-COLONS. 

*  You follow the format of these examples:

     John; Smith; jsmith@fakeplace.com; 12
     Jane; Doe; superjane@fakeplace.com; 3

*  And that you define each relationship by choosing a number from 
   this list:

 1=wife              2=husband              3=life partner
 4=significant other 5=mother               6=father
 7=sister            8=brother              9=daughter
10=son              11=other family member 12=friend
13=employer         14=employee            15=co-worker
16=client           17=service provider    18=business contact
19=fellow alum      20=acquaintance 


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E.DB.ANB.1




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 23:42:18 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: usa-v-cej-wc.htm (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199809090053.TAA12423@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 1:56 AM -0700 9/9/98, Lucky Green wrote:
>On Tue, 8 Sep 1998, Jim Choate wrote:
>(Quoting criminal complaint)
>> >    Internet group known as the "Cypherpunks." During the investigation of
>>
>> This guy has experience with the Internet and doesn't know the difference
>> between a group and a mailing list, what a maroon.
>
>I am sure he knows the difference. And in this case he was talking about
>a "Cypherpunks group", as in "the Cypherpunks militia", as in "criminal
>organization", not as in mailing list.

Who told him about the Cypherpunks Militia?  Does he know about the Jihad
to Liberate the Encrypted Places? Do they know about Cypherpunks Target
Practice?

(BTW, the use of the terms "group" and "mailing list" semi-interchangeably
is a natural one. I do it all the time. Check the archives.)

--Tim May

"The tree of liberty must be watered periodically with the blood of
tyrants...."
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist              | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 23:39:21 +0800
To: Ryan Lackey 
Subject: Re: radio net
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <35F6A0C6.76D3@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Ryan Lackey wrote:
> 
> Is anyone else interested in setting up a radio net (probably packet radio
> relay) to relay small quantities of data in the event the telecommunications
> infrastructure becomes unavailable (either technically or legally/politically/
> militarily)?  There are existing packet relay nets, but in my experience
> amateur radio people, especially in the US, are very willing to roll over
> for the government at the slightest cause.
> 
> I think the cost would be something like $1-5k per station, and it could
> be done in a fairly turnkey fashion.  Exactly how to handle routing and
> what protocol to use on the network is kind of an open question -- there
> are a lot of solutions, none of them optimal.

This is a very nice idea but tread carefully here. RF communications is
one area in which the no-domestic-crypto law IS established. The idea of
spies with shortwaves in their cigar boxes may seem hopelessly outdated
but I think the law still stands. Talk to some packet radio guys - I
think some have had trouble just sending unknown file formats. This was
a while back though - who knows - progress may have been made.

Mike




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 23:54:10 +0800
To: Fisher Mark 
Subject: Re: Zooko on JYA, cpunks, and surveillance (was: Re: Can't tell the kooks without a scorecard? Re: Monkey Wrenching the Echelon Engine)
In-Reply-To: <2C396693FBDED111AEF60000F84104A721BFA5@indyexch_fddi.indy.tce.com>
Message-ID: <35F6A1BF.559A@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Fisher Mark wrote:
> I've had some dealings with
> local government people on real estate issues (who have generally been
> reasonably helpful), and the set of people who like practical jokes has a
> (nearly?) null intersection with the set of people who go into government
> service.
>
Heard a good Jefferson quote on cpsan -

"Literalism is a hobgoblin of small minds" -Thomas Jefferson




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Bernardo B. Terrado" 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 09:12:07 +0800
To: "Brown, R Ken" 
Subject: interchange...
In-Reply-To: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F83CA@MSX11002>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I will be interchanging the meaning of cryptography with encryption, 
will this be alright or will it only confuse my listeners?

Thank you.


It's me Bernie.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Some people they might say that I'm hard to get to know.
I go my own sweet way, well that maybe so.
Something about the crowd that makes me walk alone. 
I never had a need in me to be the party's life and soul.


metaphone@altavista.net
``````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Van Over 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 13:11:58 +0800
To: amp@pobox.com
Subject: PGP5.5.5 Problem
Message-ID: <35F6A8B2.CCB6D9FF@earthlink.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I am seeking assistance with a PGP 5.5.5 system and noting your comments
on the net I thought it might be possible for you to help me with a
solution.

I have been using PGP5.5.5, successfully, for the past four months.
However, beginning three days ago I began experiencing a problem.  I am
using Netscape Navigator and the Netscape Message Center.  The problem:
When I receive a PGP message I copy it to the clipboard, but, when I
depress the "decrypt and verify" line on the PGP tool bar the screen for
the "pass phrase" flashes briefly on the screen and disappears.  The
same thing happens when I use the PGP tools.  The PGP tool bar first
referred to is the lock icon at the bottom of the screen.  I have
compared my public key with the key from which I receive messages and
they are identical.  I am able to encrypt a message to myself and then
decrypt it without any problem.  It is only when I receive a message
from my other computer does the problem exist.

I would very much appreciate any ideas you may have as how to correct
this problem.  Please make your solution as basic as possible as I am
not as "computer literate" as I need to be in order to understand most
explanations.

Thank You

Jim Van Over




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 21:35:31 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: CP Cite
Message-ID: <199809091318.JAA17051@camel7.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



We're putting together copies of cpunk messages Jeff 
Gordon cites in the Carl Johnson complaint and have 
found all in the archives except one dated June10, 1998. 
Jeff describes it:

   15. On June 10, 1998, an anonymous message was 
   posted to the Cypherpunks Internet group. In the
   message, it is stated that the bomber "placed the bomb 
   before embarking on a middle-leg of the TruthMonger
   SoftTarget Tour of Planet Terra." The message also 
   referenced an RCMP plan to "drive a known madman 
   crazy enough to finally put him away turned bad, and
   resulted in a backlash of death and destruction ..." I 
   noted that this message contained information about the
   courthouse bomb incident which had not previously been 
   made public, and was written in a style and manner
   which I recognized as being similar to other writings 
   which my investigation has linked to JOHNSON. In his
   interview with Special Agent Sheridan, JOHNSON 
   acknowledged using the name TruthMonger, and also
   stated he had psychological problems, both of which 
   correspond to this message. 

We'd appreciate getting a copy (yes, Jeff, if you would, anon ok).

BTW, there's a brief message from Lucky Green yesterday
in the archives on CEJ which did not appear on the
cyberpass list, AFAIK, although it was sent to ssz.com. Do such
gaps happen much in CDR?

Yeah, yeah, I post to toad, and aim to be the last one who
does, so drive me AP-mad.

BTW2, anybody know what Linda Reed thinks of her infame?

BTW3, we heard from TX that CJ's music/perform art is going to 
be boosted in concert with his god-sent cornseed of publicity.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 13:01:20 +0800
To: Eric Cordian 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 8:40 PM -0500 9/8/98, Eric Cordian wrote:
>> Thanks to anonymous we offer the arrest warrant and
>> complaint against Carl Edward Johnson:
>
>I conclude:
>
>A. There actually exist federal investigators who have nothing
>   better to do with their lives than read the complete writings
>   of the Performance Artists Sometimes Known as "Toto," and
>   engage in endless mental masturbation over the hidden messages
>   they imagine to be contained therein.

	He  planted a bomb. Like Mr. Bell,
this is a very dumb thing to do, especially when the bomb didn't go off.


>B. When writing parody on the subject of AP, it is best not to
>   employ the names of actual federal slackers, lest the clueless
>   investigators actually believe them to be targeted in some fashion.

	If they had a sense of humor, they wouldn't work for the government.

petro@playboy.com----for work related issues. I don't speak for Playboy.
petro@bounty.org-----for everthing else.      They wouldn't like that.
                                              They REALLY
Economic speech IS political speech.          wouldn't like that.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 22:37:19 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: CP Cite (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809091442.JAA15831@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 09:12:28 -0400
> From: John Young 
> Subject: CP Cite

> BTW, there's a brief message from Lucky Green yesterday
> in the archives on CEJ which did not appear on the
> cyberpass list, AFAIK, although it was sent to ssz.com. Do such
> gaps happen much in CDR?

I've noticed such discrepencies in the past as well. Unfortunately I have
been unable to figure out exactly why a particular remailer (I've seen every
one do this at one time or another) will drop the resend. I don't know
whether it's a time out in the various time-to-lives or what. I've noticed
that the various remailers will sometimes change message id's causing
multiple copies as well. I don't believe it's important since it doesn't
happen very often, as near as I can determine. As long as any archives
subscribe to all the lists and use some sort of duplicate filtering it
shouldn't be a real issue.

I do know that SSZ holds messages at least 4 days and my ISP holds them for
5 days so I don't think it's a connection problem resulting in dropped
traffic.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mok-Kong Shen 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 12:59:29 +0800
To: cryptography@c2.net
Subject: Re: IP: Encryption Expert Says U.S. Laws Led to Renouncing of    Citizenship
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <35F633A6.B307772A@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



David Honig wrote:
> 
> At 11:01 AM 9/7/98 +0100, Mok-Kong Shen wrote:
>
> >Let's wait and see whether AES will be genuinely exportable.

> 
> Surely you jest.  The head AES honcho will send you (in .de) the CD of the
> english
> specs, but not the one with the code.  Like it matters.

I suppose one should not forget one aspect if AES is to become an
ISO standard. There will be different implementations but one
needs validations. For compilers there are validation centres
run by certain institutes authorized by some national standard
organizations (certificates of validation are issued). Similar 
facilities should be assured for the future AES. Implementation 
as such can't in my opinion be a big problem outside of US.

M. K. Shen




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 12:52:41 +0800
To: Tim May 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 9:37 PM -0500 9/8/98, Tim May wrote:
>
>I suppose I agree with Eric's earlier point (snipped above) that mentioning
>the actual names of judges or FBI agents or IRS inspectors in rants about
>AP and AP bots is not a wise move. As with Bell's stuff, it makes for a
>case that _possibly_ these agents and judges had something to fear. Were I
>one of those judges or agents, I would tend to think that _possibly_ my
>life was in danger.

	One could point out that WE have reason to beleive that our lives
and freedoms are in danger.

>Best to leave rants at the general, protected speech level, and to not get
>into specifics of names and working habits of agents.

	That, and don't plant bombs that don't go off.

>But Toto will probably make a plea, as Bell did.

	He may be nuts enough not to.

petro@playboy.com----for work related issues. I don't speak for Playboy.
petro@bounty.org-----for everthing else.      They wouldn't like that.
                                              They REALLY
Economic speech IS political speech.          wouldn't like that.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 12:56:11 +0800
To: "William H. Geiger III" 
Subject: Re: Citizenship silliness.  Re: e$: crypto-expatriatism
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 11:25 PM -0500 9/8/98, William H. Geiger III wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
>In , on 09/08/98
>   at 06:17 PM, Petro  said:
>
>>	No, more like a get off our fucking land.
>
>Sure thing, and where you live, exactly who's land was it before you got
>there?

	Point is, the "Arabs" didn't start it, the UN/European leaders (US,
UK, FR, and RU) did.


	If I move you off your property at the point of a gun, should I
expect you to _like_ it, even if I gave you what I consider "fair market
value"?

	Oh, and the about should have read:

	No, more like a "get off our fucking land".

petro@playboy.com----for work related issues. I don't speak for Playboy.
petro@bounty.org-----for everthing else.      They wouldn't like that.
                                              They REALLY
Economic speech IS political speech.          wouldn't like that.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 23:28:15 +0800
To: "William H. Geiger III" 
Subject: Re: Citizenship silliness.  Re: e$: crypto-expatriatism (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199809082359.SAA12044@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 11:22 PM -0500 9/8/98, William H. Geiger III wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
>In <199809082359.SAA12044@einstein.ssz.com>, on 09/08/98
>   at 06:59 PM, Jim Choate  said:
>
>>Forwarded message:
>
>>> Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 18:17:45 -0500
>>> From: Petro 
>>> Subject: Re: Citizenship silliness.  Re: e$: crypto-expatriatism
>
>>> planet and take all that fucking oil with them.
>
>>I wonder how the new realization that the calthrate deposits in the ocean
>>bottem off the continental shelf make fine fuel and it's replenishable
>>and may be of a larger quantity than the oil reserves will effect the
>>power balance.
>
>Once an alternative fuel source is discovered that is more economical than
>oil,

	There already are several, the problem is the cannot be centralized
the way oil is.

	Alcohol is acceptable (and in some ways better) than gasoline for
cars and motorcycles, but anyone can set up a still and compete with RDS &
Standard. A mix of solar, wind, coal, hydroelectric, nuclear and other
sources can provide most of the rest of the power we need. It is just a
matter of being willing to make the investment in the changeover.

> the arabs will slip back into obscurity.

	Yeah, and the US will suddenly find that there is no longer an
reason to provide Isreal with HOW MUCH military support per year?

petro@playboy.com----for work related issues. I don't speak for Playboy.
petro@bounty.org-----for everthing else.      They wouldn't like that.
                                              They REALLY
Economic speech IS political speech.          wouldn't like that.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 12:12:13 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Netly News on Nutly News (resend)
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 05:42:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: Declan McCullagh 
To: politech@vorlon.mit.edu
Subject: The Arrest of the Nutly Bomber




http://cgi.pathfinder.com/netly/0,2326,201980909-14593,00.html

TIME Digital Daily
September 9, 1998 

   The Arrest of the Nutly Bomber 
   By Declan McCullagh (declan@well.com)
   
   [Part I of a Series For two years a pair of anonymous Net crackpots
   have been posting angry tirades to a cryptography discussion list
   under a takeoff of Netly called "Nutly News." Now the FBI and Royal
   Canadian Mounted Police say that a digital signature connects them to
   a bomb discovered last June in a Canadian courthouse.]
   
   It was about 5 p.m. on August 18. Carl Johnson, 49, was beating the
   heat inside the Rialto Theater in what passes for downtown Tuscon,
   Ariz. That morning a friend had tipped off Johnson that the police    
   were trying to find him, but for now he had something else on his
   mind: his music. The itinerant musician and writer had spent the last
   month furiously scribbling lyrics, friends say, and he wanted a loan
   from someone he knew who worked at the theater. It was for some
   recording work, Johnson explained. This was going be his third album,
   after "My Way or the Highway" and "Please! Stop Me Before I Sing
   Again."
  
   But when Johnson left the Rialto, his musical career was cut short by
   two federal agents from the IRS's internal security division. They
   arrested him on charges of Internet threats against federal judges and
   police. The Canadians wanted Johnson, too, on charges of planting a
   bomb in a Saskatchewan courthouse.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 23:45:13 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Citizenship silliness.  Re: e$: crypto-expatriatism (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809091556.KAA16265@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 10:03:25 -0500
> From: Petro 
> Subject: Re: Citizenship silliness.  Re: e$: crypto-expatriatism (fwd)

> 	There already are several, the problem is the cannot be centralized
> the way oil is.

That's not really the problem...

> 	Alcohol is acceptable (and in some ways better) than gasoline for
> cars and motorcycles, but anyone can set up a still and compete with RDS &
> Standard.

The problem with alcohol is that there isn't enough free land in order grow
enough plant material to provide the necessary quantities without seriously
restricting the amount of land available for actual foodstuffs and living
space (unless you want everyone to move to Black Rock desert or live on the
top of a mountain).

Alcohol is also much more of a fire hazard than gas. It burns hotter, isn't
put out by water spray easily, and burns invisibly (well all right in the
near-UV).

> A mix of solar

Again not enough land to make it feasible, not to mention the low efficiency
of even the best panels.

> wind

Not enough places in the US (or anywhere else for that matter) where the 
wind blows with sufficient force 18 hours a day to make it economical.

> coal

Coal isn't an acceptable substitute, mainly because there isn't enough
low-sulphur deposits in the world to supply the US, let alone the rest of
the world. Plus it isn't renewable.

> hydroelectric

Not enough rivers with sufficient hydrodynamic head to make this work
for the US let alone the rest of the planet.

> nuclear

I'll buck the general consensus because I like nuclear energy, however there
is a single MAJOR caveat, we need fussion and not fission reactors to make
it economical. The waste problem with fission reactors is enough to vote
in the negative on them.

> and other sources

cop-out.

The reality is that the clathrate deposits occur across the entire ocean.
The existing Magnesium Nodule treaties could be extended to cover the
countries that don't have coastlines. They are the first renewable,
occurring in sufficient quantity, and with realizable and economicly
feasible methods for mining, processing, and distributing to have been put
on the table.

As to the gas and oil folk being against them, they're about the only ones
with an existing infrastructure (ie extracting oil and gas from the sea
floor) to take advantage of the source, implying that existing changes in
the infrastructure would be minor.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Lucky Green 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 16:59:20 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: usa-v-cej-wc.htm (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199809090053.TAA12423@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Tue, 8 Sep 1998, Jim Choate wrote:
(Quoting criminal complaint) 
> >    Internet group known as the "Cypherpunks." During the investigation of
> 
> This guy has experience with the Internet and doesn't know the difference
> between a group and a mailing list, what a maroon.

I am sure he knows the difference. And in this case he was talking about
a "Cypherpunks group", as in "the Cypherpunks militia", as in "criminal
organization", not as in mailing list.

PsyOps is in full force.

-- Lucky Green  PGP v5 encrypted email preferred.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 13:17:20 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: wired on y2k
In-Reply-To: <199809080235.TAA23415@netcom13.netcom.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 1:53 PM -0400 on 9/8/98, Michael Motyka wrote:


> Water? Met a reactor designer from Los Alamos once who lived in some
> super but isolated place in the Sangre De Christos. He had to drill some
> 3K ft for water. VERY EXPENSIVE.

Being 3k feet above the floor of the Rio Grande Valley will kinda do that
to ya...

I prefer northeast Lincoln County, myself...

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 11:47:43 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 10:56 AM -0500 9/9/98, Jim Choate wrote:
>Forwarded message:
>
>> Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 10:03:25 -0500
>> From: Petro 
>> Subject: Re: Citizenship silliness.  Re: e$: crypto-expatriatism (fwd)
>
>> 	There already are several, the problem is the cannot be centralized
>> the way oil is.
>That's not really the problem...

	I'd say it is, but hell, I'm paranoid.

>
>> 	Alcohol is acceptable (and in some ways better) than gasoline for
>> cars and motorcycles, but anyone can set up a still and compete with RDS &
>> Standard.
>
>The problem with alcohol is that there isn't enough free land in order grow
>enough plant material to provide the necessary quantities without seriously
>restricting the amount of land available for actual foodstuffs and living
>space (unless you want everyone to move to Black Rock desert or live on the
>top of a mountain).

	There are lots of things you can make alcohol out of. Seaweed, etc.

	There would also be incentive to other countries to produce excess
for importation into the US.

>Alcohol is also much more of a fire hazard than gas. It burns hotter, isn't

	And what would you need to add to it to "color" the flame?

>put out by water spray easily, and burns invisibly (well all right in the
>near-UV).

	Put about 2% detergent (just about any grade will do) into that
"water spray", and the fire goes out quicker, and stays out longer.

>> A mix of solar
>Again not enough land to make it feasible, not to mention the low efficiency
>of even the best panels.

	There are plenty of unused roof tops here in Chicago bouncing free
energy off into the air.

>> wind
>Not enough places in the US (or anywhere else for that matter) where the
>wind blows with sufficient force 18 hours a day to make it economical.

	Again, there are a lot of tall buildings here where the wind is
constantly moving. Also, we have this large, flat, relatively undeveloped
area just to the east of chicago where the wind is constantly at least 10
m.p.h. (from (admittedly imperfect memory) 7 m.p.h. is necessary to run an
electric generator from a windmill) and where no one lives.

	It's called Lake Michigan.

>> coal
>Coal isn't an acceptable substitute, mainly because there isn't enough
>low-sulphur deposits in the world to supply the US, let alone the rest of
>the world. Plus it isn't renewable.

	No, but it is PART of the solution.

>> hydroelectric
>Not enough rivers with sufficient hydrodynamic head to make this work
>for the US let alone the rest of the planet.

	Again, PART of the solution.
>> nuclear
>
>I'll buck the general consensus because I like nuclear energy, however there
>is a single MAJOR caveat, we need fussion and not fission reactors to make
>it economical. The waste problem with fission reactors is enough to vote
>in the negative on them.

	The waste problem goes away of you build a decently stable launch
platform and drop the shit into the sun.

>> and other sources
>cop-out.

	No, it's an inclusive statment. It takes into account things like
your beloved Clathrate deposits, things like the possiblity of launching
"power sats" into orbit (altho I am not real clear on how the energy gets
back down, something about using microwaves )

	Also, you ignored, or didn't see the "mix of" statement. Oil CAN be
replaced, and should be. There are plenty of ways to replace the energy
with something else, and there are ways--without modifying lifestyles all
that much--to reduce dependence on oil.

	No, don't look at me to be waving the Big Green Flag, I mean I'm
for clean air as much as the next guy, and I guess trees are kinda nice to
look at, but I'd like to see far more diversity in energy sources, and
investigation into more long term, renewable sources.

>The reality is that the clathrate deposits occur across the entire ocean.
>The existing Magnesium Nodule treaties could be extended to cover the
>countries that don't have coastlines. They are the first renewable,
>occurring in sufficient quantity, and with realizable and economicly
>feasible methods for mining, processing, and distributing to have been put
>on the table.

	Actually it looks like something that could be made in a factory.
Take a methane source (sewage, rotting plant matter) pump it into really
cold water under pressure, and blam.

>As to the gas and oil folk being against them, they're about the only ones
>with an existing infrastructure (ie extracting oil and gas from the sea
>floor) to take advantage of the source, implying that existing changes in
>the infrastructure would be minor.

	Depends on what you want it to replace. The one of the largest uses
of oil is in the transportation sector, and "they" have been pushing
Natural Gas there for years to little effect.

petro@playboy.com----for work related issues. I don't speak for Playboy.
petro@bounty.org-----for everthing else.      They wouldn't like that.
                                              They REALLY
Economic speech IS political speech.          wouldn't like that.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 13:46:52 +0800
To: kamikaze23@juno.com>
Subject: Re: Any good hacking sites?
Message-ID: <4abeb8cbbcd0d664e6c810ce33e4f40f@anonymous>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



M I T wrote:
> ...
> also, any1 here into AOL hacking???
> 

Oh, this is almost _too_ easy...

Yeah, we know about AOL hacking... First, you get a couple of million clueless fucktards like yourself together and give all of them the same 800-number to dial in... Watch what follows:



bzzzt... bzzzt... bzzzt... 

Lamer #1: "Hey, d00d, whatcha doin?"

bzzzt... bzzzt... bzzzt... 

Lamer #2: "I'm hacking AOL, man."

bzzzt... bzzzt... bzzzt... 

Lamer #1: "Whoa! C00l, d00d! Can I like, watch?"

bzzzt... bzzzt... bzzzt... 

Lamer #2: "Sure, man."



...

Any questions?





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: cicho@free.polbox.pl (cicho)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 20:01:23 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Text Analysis and Shakespeare
In-Reply-To: <199809040233.TAA29401@netcom13.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <35f66746.1781792@193.59.1.1>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote:

>a friend gave me a book called "the cryptographic
>shakespeare" in which he found some patterns in 
>shakespearean texts that might tend to suggest
>some codes were embedded in it.

In what sense? Most of the time, plain old lit analysis is looking for
"keys" and then applying them to "unlock" the "hidden message". An allegory
is a simple substitution cipher, and then it goes all the way up to lit
equivalents of one time pads and steganography (say, 'Lolita' or Frank
O'Hara's poetry).

Concerning Shakespeare, I thought those involved in this discussion might
be amused by the following. I would have posted it earlier but didn't have
the book at hand, and then Lem's prose isn't particularly friendly for the
translator. It's all taken out of context, but will speak for itself, I am
sure.

--------------

STANISŁAW LEM
DIARY FOUND IN A BATHTUB
(chapter IV, excerpt)


	'Here goes,' I said at last, opening my eyes. 'My ears have yet not
drunk a hundred words of that tongue's utterance, yet I know the sound. Art
thou not Romeo?'
	'Fine.'
	The captain punched keys briskly, typing in the line I offered. A slot
that looked like an ancient letterbox began spitting out paper ribbon which
spun slowly in the air. Captain Prandtl held it gently and handed it to me.
I held the tip of the ribbon, waiting patiently. The paper snaked out of
the slot inch by inch and when I tugged at it carefully I could feel the
feeding mechanism vibrate. Suddenly, the barely perceptible tremor ceased
and the ribbon spun on, blank. I held it to my eyes.
	'BAS TARD MAT HEWS BAS TARD DRAW HIM & QUARTER WITH HOLY DE LIGHT MAT
HEWS PIG SEED MATH HEWS MATH'.
	'And what is this?' I asked, not even trying to conceal my dismay. The
captain nodded.
	'I presume that when he wrote the scene, Shakespeare was unfavourably
disposed towards a man named Mathews. . . and encoded the sentiment in the
lines of his play.'
	'You expect me to believe that? Do you mean to say that he deliberately
filled this wondrous, lyrical passage with crude interjections at some
Mathews person?'
	'I never said he did so deliberately. A code is a code, no matter what
the author's intent.'
	'Do you mind?' I asked. I approached the control panel and keyed in the
freshly obtained plaintext myself. The ribbon moved again, twisting into a
spiral. I caught a brief, peculiar smile on Prandtl's lips, but he didn't
say a word.
	'THAT ASS YEAH HER ASS FUN FAT ASS FUN FAT YEAH ASS HER ASS HEY THAT
FAT ASS' - read the tidily printed syllables.
	'What is this?' I demanded. 'What is it?!'
	'Another layer. Well, what did you expect? We've exposed a deeper layer
of the psyche of a 17th century Englishman, plain and simple.'
	'This cannot be! You're telling me this beautiful poem is nothing but a
vessel to conceal some pigs and asses?! And that if you feed the most
sublime literary achievements, pinnacles of human genius, immortal epics,
sagas - it will all come out hodgepodge?'
	'Hodgepodge it is, mister. Art... literature... do you realise what
their purpose is? To divert attention!'
	'From what?'
	'You don't know?'
	'I don't.'
	'That's too bad. You ought to know. What are you doing here, then?!'
	I didn't answer. With skin on his face taut like a tent's canvas
stretched over sharp rocks, he continued in monotone:
	'A broken code remains a code. Under the eye of a professional
cryptographer it will shed one moult after another. It is inexhaustible. It
has no end nor bottom. You can delve into progressively deeper,
progressively more arcane strata, but this journey never terminates.'

--------------

(This 1960 novel is available in English translation, hopefully better than
my attempt here, as "Diary Found in a Bathtub", though i *really* should be
called The (Original) Puzzle Palace, 'coz that's what it's about. It's
Kafka plus David Lynch plus TCMay rolled in one :)

.marek


-- 
General Frenetics, Discorporated: http://www.lodz.pdi.net/~eristic/




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 13:11:57 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Carl Johnson Warrant and Complaint
Message-ID: <199809091550.LAA03183@panix7.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



   >   From: Tim May 
   >
   >   As I'd been deleting nearly all of Toto's stuff unread, I missed all the
   >   stuff about (allegedly) threatening to bomb the RCMP.

That's probably true for most of us...it was an unbelievable volume of crap
he sent the list. (as opposed to my crap ;-)

   >   Best to leave rants at the general, protected speech level, and to not get
   >   into specifics of names and working habits of agents.

For example:

   #  Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 22:39:01 -0700
   #  To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
   #  From: Tim May 
   #  Subject: Tax silliness
   #  
   #  Fox News is reporting that the IRS has said it may seek to
   #  assess "gift taxes" if the guy who recovered Mark McGwire's 61st home
   #  baseball gives the ball back to Mark McGwire.
   #  
   #  Those fuckers in D. C. need to be put out of our misery.

Yeah, much better, Tim. ;-)

But don't start holding rallies and saying it in public in NYC,
or Rudolph Giuliani might have you arrested.

----

http://jya.com/usa-v-cej-wc.htm

>    8. On December 9, 1997, an anonymous message was posted to the
>    Cypherpunks Internet mail group with the subject listed as "Encrypted
>    InterNet DEATH THREAT!!! / ATTN: Ninth District Judges / PASSWORD:
>    sog"[.] The body of the message was encrypted with the publicly
>    available encryption software PGP, and was initially unreadable. Using
>    PGP software and the password shown in the subject line of the
>    message, I was able to decrypt the message, which contained a
>    rambling, five-page statement, including the following:

That would appear to be this post:

   http://www.inet-one.com/cypherpunks/dir.97.12.04-97.12.10/msg00356.html

Entirely unexplained is how one goes from passphrase "sog" (Shit on government?)
to decrypting the PGP message.

What public or private key was used?

>    9. I noted that this message contained a PGP digital signature. From
>    my training and experience, I am aware that this digital signature is
>    used as a way to authenticate digital documents to make sure that they
>    are authored by the purported author and that no one has tampered with
>    them. When I checked the signature using only PGP software, the PGP
>    program was unable to identify it.

What key...?

>    Only July 1, 1998, Royal Canadian
>    Mounted Police (RCMP) Investigator Steve Foster provided me with a PGP
>    "Secret Key Ring" which he stated he had obtained from a computer
>    which Canadian Customs authorities had seized from an individual by
>    the name of CARL EDWARD JOHNSON. [A "secret key ring" is a
>    user-generated code which allows for the encryption (and later
>    authentication) of computer-generated documents.] When I checked the
>    digital signature on the Internet death threat using the PGP software
>    and JOHNSON'S secret key ring, the computer identified the signature
>    as one of the signature keys stored in JOHNSON'S computer. Because
>    both the "private" and "public" portions of the "key" were stored on
>    JOHNSON'S computer, the message can be authenticated as having been
>    generated by the person who possessed this "secret key" and knew the
>    correct password. In other words, only the person possessing the
>    secret key found on JOHNSON'S computer could have generated the "death
>    threat" message.

Sparky got it wrong.

Many people could have the same public/secret key pairs, all they
have to do is give them out.

And you don't authenticate messages with the "secret key" in standard use.

This person seems to have no clue, after months of tracking, how
basic public key encryption software works.

In fact, the key ring could be edited to have a fake secret key
and the public key that works as the digital signature for the
posted message.

More questions: did they get the passphrase for his computer's
PGP secret key? How? And why did RCMP customs seize his computer?

---guy




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 13:04:42 +0800
To: Petro 
Subject: Re: Citizenship silliness.  Re: e$: crypto-expatriatism
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199809091801.OAA04010@domains.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In , on 09/09/98 
   at 09:58 AM, Petro  said:

>At 11:25 PM -0500 9/8/98, William H. Geiger III wrote:
>>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>
>>In , on 09/08/98
>>   at 06:17 PM, Petro  said:
>>
>>>	No, more like a get off our fucking land.
>>
>>Sure thing, and where you live, exactly who's land was it before you got
>>there?

>	Point is, the "Arabs" didn't start it, the UN/European leaders (US, UK,
>FR, and RU) did.

Both the Palestinians and the Jews living in Trans-Jordan wanted their own
country. The UN resolution divided up the land based on population and
gave each group their own country. Israel declared their independence, the
Palestinians listened to the Grand Mufti and join in the holy war to wipe
out the Jews. The Arabs lost, too bad, game over.

And interesting note to the whole palestinian "issue" is that the majority
of the population of Jordan is palestinian!! And long before the Intifada
the PLO tried to take over the government of Jordan and were embroiled in
civil war for most of the 60's and early 70's. The Jordanian Arabs finally
kick the PLO out in the early 70's (71 maybe 72).


>	If I move you off your property at the point of a gun, should I expect
>you to _like_ it, even if I gave you what I consider "fair market value"?

This re-wright of history might give you warm fuzzies but no one was moved
at gun point off their land (at least not until the Arabs started the
war). The Jews that emigrated to Trans-Jordan/Palestine *purchased* the
land from the Arabs that were living there. Even after the war the
majority of palestinians left on their own.

None of the current Arab countries existed until the British carved up
their conquered territory after WWI. If Israel is not "legitimate" because
of UK/UN involvement does it follow that all of the Arab states that were
formed at this time are also illegitimate? Perhaps we should should
re-unite the Ottoman Empire? How far back in history do you want to go to
find the "legitimate" territorial boundaries? Persian? Roman? Israel?
Egyptian? Sumerian?

I find it quite hypocritical of Americans who see the Israelites as
occupiers and oppressors but would be outraged at calls to give back the
south-west to Mexico. Tim, you want to give your ranch to some Mexican
family since the Americans took that land from them? but then the mexicans
would have to give that land back to some deserving "native" Americans as
they took that land from them. But then again we would have to sift
through the thousands of years of tribal warfare and migration to find the
one true owners of the land.

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: OS/2: Windows with bullet-proof glass.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3a-sha1
Charset: cp850
Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000

iQCVAwUBNfbEUI9Co1n+aLhhAQGMYgP/Wy+8lVZ6b1YiadmpJ2J/chGcj0NoFbp9
uQhCtPoV2017EdU9c0AcI1PtJ+Bat3wNrZsBMgcnRxA+elgBLe9EbI7kCLIiTr6d
8Kv1stRtd2UPcAoqbJR0EBKtGaryfZY1TzCC2SBbKJUi8pJnfET20wj4Trihw+jh
lSpcGvvHVjg=
=jXCe
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 14:16:59 +0800
To: Anonymous 
Subject: Carl Johnson's private key
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I make that point in my article, but have not seen truthmonger's private
key posted. Care to forward it to me?

http://cgi.pathfinder.com/netly/0,2326,201980909-14593,00.html


On Wed, 9 Sep 1998, Anonymous wrote:

> Dear Mr Gordon,
> 
>    When I checked the
>    digital signature on the Internet death threat using the PGP software
>    and JOHNSON'S secret key ring, the computer identified the signature
>    as one of the signature keys stored in JOHNSON'S computer. Because
>    both the "private" and "public" portions of the "key" were stored on
>    JOHNSON'S computer, the message can be authenticated as having been
>    generated by the person who possessed this "secret key" and knew the
>    correct password. In other words, only the person possessing the
>    secret key found on JOHNSON'S computer could have generated the "death
>    threat" message.
> 
> Why would you claim only one person possessed the secret key? As you
> doubtlessly know, some of the TruthMonger secret keys have been posted
> to Cypherpunks anonymously. This is not authentication. Thank you.
> 
> 
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 14:15:46 +0800
To: Petro 
Subject: Re: Carl Johnson Warrant and Complaint
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Well, there's a little more to the "bomb" incident than that. Read
tomorrow's Netly News report on the Nutly News bomber for more info...

-Declan


On Wed, 9 Sep 1998, Petro wrote:

> 
> At 8:40 PM -0500 9/8/98, Eric Cordian wrote:
> >> Thanks to anonymous we offer the arrest warrant and
> >> complaint against Carl Edward Johnson:
> >
> >I conclude:
> >
> >A. There actually exist federal investigators who have nothing
> >   better to do with their lives than read the complete writings
> >   of the Performance Artists Sometimes Known as "Toto," and
> >   engage in endless mental masturbation over the hidden messages
> >   they imagine to be contained therein.
> 
> 	He  planted a bomb. Like Mr. Bell,
> this is a very dumb thing to do, especially when the bomb didn't go off.
> 
> 
> >B. When writing parody on the subject of AP, it is best not to
> >   employ the names of actual federal slackers, lest the clueless
> >   investigators actually believe them to be targeted in some fashion.
> 
> 	If they had a sense of humor, they wouldn't work for the government.
> 
> petro@playboy.com----for work related issues. I don't speak for Playboy.
> petro@bounty.org-----for everthing else.      They wouldn't like that.
>                                               They REALLY
> Economic speech IS political speech.          wouldn't like that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 15:42:02 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: RE: radio net (fwd)
Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A19284623@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




So much for "no domestic crypto restrictions." I really hate when people
say that, there are plenty, and export restrictions on cryptography
software and cryptography in software DOES indirectly but substantially
affect the availability and cost of domestic encryption, not to mention
that most people download export-grade crypto from the web for
convenience.

Isn't there a similar ban on encryption-capable telephones and other
electronic devices (other than computers).

	Matt


> > The FCC prohibits the transmission of encrypted data via 
> > analog or digital signals by amateurs.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: jimg@mentat.com (Jim Gillogly)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 15:06:11 +0800
To: declan@well.com
Subject: Re: Carl Johnson's private key
Message-ID: <199809092006.NAA10324@zendia.mentat.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Declan skribis:
> I make that point in my article, but have not seen truthmonger's private
> key posted. Care to forward it to me?

I stopped paying attention to most of Truthmonger's spew, but did
collect one private key it posted, under the name "Earmonger", since I
was doing PGP experiments at the time.  I think this one doesn't have
an associated passphrase, which would make forging with it quite
simple.  I sort of think more of its private keys were posted, but I
didn't keep any others.  This does, however, establish a pattern of
behavior suggesting it didn't keep private keys strictly private.

IIRC many of TM's messages were simply file-encrypted with an openly
posted passphrase, which doesn't take a rocket scientist to crack.

	Jim Gillogly

--------------------------------------------

Earmonger key, clipped last year:

-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0
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=SVmn
-----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 15:06:21 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Citizenship silliness.  Re: e$: crypto-expatriatism
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 11:25 AM -0700 9/9/98, William H. Geiger III wrote:


>After the various battles of this 50 year war large percentages of the
>Palestinian population left Israelie held territory, but this had more to
>do with the Arab leaders calling for them to do so (and their not wanting
>to live under Israelie rule) than it did with the Jews pushing them out.


Yes, many farmers and others left the war zone  in 1948 to stay with
relatives and friends and such in safer areas. Can anyone blame them?

Ah, but now they and their children and grandchildren and
great-grandchildren live in tents in refugee camps for a simple reason:
they were not allowed to return to their homes and land.

Did this vacation in Jordan or Egypt or Lebanon or wherever mean they lost
the title to their homes and land? Apparently the newly arrived transplants
from Poland and Latvia and such felt this to be the case.

This is comparable to my going to Oregon to escape the Reconquista Wars in
California, and returning a few months later to find the borders sealed.
(Issues that those who departed may have fallen behind in mortgage payments
and had their farms repossesed by banks, etc., are clearly separable...and
minor, from my readings of Middle Eastern history.)

"You left your land. Enjoy your life in the tent camp at the
Oregon-California border. Meanwhile, your ranch is now my ranch. Oh, and
could give me all of your spare keys? And how does the sprinkler system
work?"

Israel is based on moral bankruptcy. The supposed guilt of the West (huh?
we didn't gas the Jews, and we lost millions of lives fighting Hitler) led
to the "ragheads" being kicked off their land.

--Tim May




"The tree of liberty must be watered periodically with the blood of
tyrants...."
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist              | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: chatski carl 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 12:17:59 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: A question about gas warfare in San Fran in '66...
In-Reply-To: <199809080109.UAA06813@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Mon, 7 Sep 1998, Jim Choate wrote:
> .... on some
> sort of bio-weapon test that occurred in '66 in San Francisco. He is
> claiming that deaths resulted.
> Anyone have a clue what he's talking about?

He is probably talking about a test run by the CIA, Navy Etc.

A navy ship in the bay sprayed SF with a 'simulated' BW agent ( Serratia
marcescens - If I remember correctly ).  This was not designed to hurt
people but to see the spread of an aerosolized agent in a real city. 
Monitoring collectors were set up all over the city including in schools
etc.

Several days after the spraying started, in one hospital ( connected with
Stanford I think ), where there was a ward with a number of catheterized
men, some dozen or so men became seriously ill with Serratia infections,
and 2 died.  There was never a case of Serratia infection before this
time.  The military people conducting the experiment did not inform the
hospital physicians even after the men became ill! 



- Carl




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 15:15:29 +0800
To: Jim Gillogly 
Subject: Re: Carl Johnson's private key
In-Reply-To: <199809092006.NAA10324@zendia.mentat.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Hmm. I grabbed the key below and compared it to the "death threat" post
sent on Tuesday, 09 Dec 97 13:51:52 EST. Not a match.

-Declan

PS: Hello to my fans in domestic survelliance!

On Wed, 9 Sep 1998, Jim Gillogly wrote:

> Declan skribis:
> > I make that point in my article, but have not seen truthmonger's private
> > key posted. Care to forward it to me?
> 
> I stopped paying attention to most of Truthmonger's spew, but did
> collect one private key it posted, under the name "Earmonger", since I
> was doing PGP experiments at the time.  I think this one doesn't have
> an associated passphrase, which would make forging with it quite
> simple.  I sort of think more of its private keys were posted, but I
> didn't keep any others.  This does, however, establish a pattern of
> behavior suggesting it didn't keep private keys strictly private.
> 
> IIRC many of TM's messages were simply file-encrypted with an openly
> posted passphrase, which doesn't take a rocket scientist to crack.
> 
> 	Jim Gillogly
> 
> --------------------------------------------
> 
> Earmonger key, clipped last year:
> 
> -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
> Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0
> 
> mQENAzZsmI4AAAEIANHHMhV7V8WqPO6RjjfhZbeY/e6hsjAjKckU7YAYPhHiJfqG
> xw5+PgVjRPhIpXEE8ksmzZBzyH5KLW5GKFJZoD6YvVUSuzm+Gpxv+G78sBDBljUt
> BUoaB0XM4HSjEuqZtRtva+l+MAr3tFrK8FSdCsSgjQa8oOT5yFE76hgOGOkXGDKC
> HAISINKdduNsp4PU6HiNoKMdYpCCvK5u08lQFcByare2yaYmawYLmCzheCWLv9F/
> kvnFtXCjup/pQNcOVeb/FkDx42l4vMwiWTH+AvrsjsV1njUIi9DTmcmD4doPlzBS
> qgbvQiTa16T2E4wJlnmATuW3QdwuBbdT2FSgj3MABRG0F0Vhck1vbmdlciA8ZW1A
> ZGV2Lm51bGw+iQEVAwUQNmyYjgW3U9hUoI9zAQHjNgf+KIDuWoBvfUj4H1twHvYU
> +IeDWIApLDnHkR7tsalLi9jY345iAolt3a/CiYxXPtjy9yedSaKoPasuvQk2cZ6e
> LZZwgEfDYj1GvjLC9D1rSItLLl6aDqYfhN2D2wgnB4mJssx1NP9zLQRf8aJkbDnl
> BMy3kfTr6ANmwe1hRGFWiuLkhnEtKzc9TFxBtx+4bx66rBBTzSUBfynH35bCLHLw
> hVzWGc5A0F18LG2WRLbGa/LcEXjp35jHyrJV73t2gUwVjH5qGa0B5O0dpvK9yDR9
> wutFrmuhRgfqHO5Tclp470dkQFJv6HHMrSYyjRFFtyC9A+5Fvd1WkW7oLRAUxZmm
> HZkBogQ0i2ULEQQA17gNRCXxoQBVQVD+zukbAWtxMCio0tfXEJYPN516KNT7noeK
> dA4Q+TItlf8uC6VkUkUwabIueLZwvykDo83tnupSkvxEQ/EftLpm56kBIrgWprJM
> f0rIhFpIR0mNiT8ZH3z7OCAcQrfSCowk//4iESLLW8H0tFx5B9bPXrrrnkcAoP88
> aezjfDn3DMlloJP9hNgRgvplA/0TKu4o2DNdIFAp/xeZE2R6wxrPfPfV00xNTgXe
> 5xXS3rCEljz48q6DEymmvA+oFuszKcrgOVDMT1TcKE1MzPjeKoe3c4Di92X+FoGa
> IenXHQrmfn7uUo54twYFqp8VsHgtfsg3F8KfFg/znF5BrIVq+aXQF9m/LczcObRz
> IXceEQQAhKvUfNYfP7NKA7sGkV38iFi8iJxsvkMk3RvlG6IxV0d3ATCRcvAFYUV3
> fyap+CS0UnoBGZUmmIY5EvC2KyI9h8X+AXPymgM4JeQ2Hg7DnEXMegFwJ3iK9+Cg
> KlTS/R/h8qYUW5G1qYgYBU+JQ3I2wxmeaVWBBtYM0Rukppz+F5G0F0Vhck1vbmdl
> ciA8ZW1AZGV2Lm51bGw+iQBLBBARAgALBQI0i2ULBAsDAQIACgkQJH46DXlIPur3
> KACgn/XD/dT+BvqkoDk1dOrbbdd00z0AnAqTYWdIKb1HkKf7Sfetwh/vKCXHuQIN
> BDSLZQsQCAD2Qle3CH8IF3KiutapQvMF6PlTETlPtvFuuUs4INoBp1ajFOmPQFXz
> 0AfGy0OplK33TGSGSfgMg71l6RfUodNQ+PVZX9x2Uk89PY3bzpnhV5JZzf24rnRP
> xfx2vIPFRzBhznzJZv8V+bv9kV7HAarTW56NoKVyOtQa8L9GAFgr5fSI/VhOSdvN
> ILSd5JEHNmszbDgNRR0PfIizHHxbLY7288kjwEPwpVsYjY67VYy4XTjTNP18F1dD
> ox0YbN4zISy1Kv884bEpQBgRjXyEpwpy1obEAxnIByl6ypUM2Zafq9AKUJsCRtMI
> PWakXUGfnHy9iUsiGSa6q6Jew1XpMgs7AAICCAC9H3enQ+6tZvcA5cjF3M2nTFCS
> IjerrQsQ5MZJ1EWYYhkgYkUQwtfuYL4NU/PelIo1TdYBr4mbNzxwJMFZ22cDNiOn
> J9oUhfDJyTA4yOacTxgl/wAXFD1FElzrVjlkf6TKW4+Db1elApcFbTDSvLNRPQev
> rtIrNRR480AtI8Um76RySrl9okI5L7TvtAXZMQnuyTtyA+YeG2/FvE3cOIY7EFXg
> Zm/jPGw6ijsbATKh6dsnb8f8dahB4awsTAzz0Unzx49TCUk0AdU9jbdP+8i+g9eJ
> uodZhd71d2o7HyhAwkVNKcsu5nqpFzwAWK5xSy5x1AprWWrTiu6uiAQ6T5Q/iQBG
> BBgRAgAGBQI0i2ULAAoJECR+Og15SD7qKaAAn0gbCIF0XzBifU27o9N7x4RI/IUX
> AJ49fXSrtX0w17W0gCe7BCvjXkRP7Q==
> =SVmn
> -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
> 
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 13:41:08 +0800
To: Tim May 
Subject: Re: Citizenship silliness.  Re: e$: crypto-expatriatism
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199809091840.OAA04706@domains.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In , on 09/08/98 
   at 09:40 PM, Tim May  said:

>And it wouldn't have happened had the victorious superpowers decided the
>sand niggers in Palestine could be kicked off their land. (I have no beef
>with those Jews who peacefully bought land in Palestine prior to this
>mass resettlement.)

Sorry Tim, you need to re-check your history.

No one was kicked off their land until *after* war broke out in '45. All
land occupied by the Jews before that was *purchased* from the Arabs
living there. There was also a large percentage of land that was either
desert or swaps that was reclaimed by the Jews and turned into productive
farm land. Tel Aviv was nothing but sand and scrub brush before the Jews
started building there (there was the Ancient city of Jaffo which Tel Aviv
has now encompassed but it took decades of expansion before Tel Aviv
reached that far south).

After the various battles of this 50 year war large percentages of the
Palestinian population left Israelie held territory, but this had more to
do with the Arab leaders calling for them to do so (and their not wanting
to live under Israelie rule) than it did with the Jews pushing them out.

Similar migrations were seen when India and Pakistan were created. Large
portions of Moslem population that were living in India moved to Pakistan
despite Ghandi's calls for them to stay.

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: One man's Windows are another man's walls.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3a-sha1
Charset: cp850
Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000

iQCVAwUBNfbNiY9Co1n+aLhhAQGZ2AQAgWGUujzGbVvq6uhqnE4fEabsvZCJiYqP
J5MCk3+Z/FJ/ufV37pOlDlBjApPBl87kVmrDdbzlYSRizSsF5Y2dttJ+X5gskeWp
sbXoPdAH7IWTm0AVCzhYJQCS0nO+Af1UT6mLSYl4v4RAmVC3wVIqvmz8lf0eRpLd
JjYMsLMyHRA=
=G2i7
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: HyperReal-Anon 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 21:54:35 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Exported PGP
Message-ID: <501945eb2c5615fb70017a1fb5b2d1e3@anonymous>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I've never heard this anywhere else but I was browsing www.infowar.com and I saw this quote

Question the priorities 
Private sector intellectual property deserves pride of place 
Data integrity and system survivability are the priorities 
Unencumbered encryption is vital for national competitiveness 
Protecting all private sector data is more important than a marginal enhancement to our government's ability to catch criminals and terrorists 
****PGP is not good enough-"exported PGP" has Soviet back doors 
Lotus reported to have given away half the key to NSA-Swedes are pissed 
  
Does anyone have info on this?  I assume that since the source code for PGP is publicly available someone would have questioned this already...

The full url I was using:
http://www.infowar.com/class_1/class1_083198a_j.shtml




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Harvey Rook (Exchange)" 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 15:53:11 +0800
To: "'Bernardo B. Terrado'" 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Hi Bernardo;

TEMPEST isn't a cipher, but a technique. 

Essentially, your monitor is a great big RF emitter. As it's electron gun
turns off and on to make the phosphor screen glow, it's emitting all kinds
of radio frequencies that betray the image on the screen. A tempest attack
is a receiver that can tune to a monitor, and reconstruct the image from the
RF the monitor is emitting. Supposedly such equipment costs about $500.00 

Harvey "Know it All" Rook.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bernardo B. Terrado [mailto:bbt@mudspring.uplb.edu.ph]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 1998 11:03 PM
> To: cypherpunks@toad.com
> Subject: question...
> 
> 
> What is the TEMPEST? (just an overview)
> 
> What do enciphered images look like?
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> 
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Some people they might say that I'm hard to get to know.
> I go my own sweet way, well that maybe so.
> Something about the crowd that makes me walk alone. 
> I never had a need in me to be the party's life and soul.
> 
> It's me Bernie.
> metaphone@altavista.net
> ``````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
> ````````````````
> 
> 
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 12:52:44 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Checking CDR
Message-ID: <199809091748.NAA15881@camel8.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Those of us on cyberpass.net are not getting mail this
morning so I've subbed to algebra and ssz to see if the
x-posting is working.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: BMM 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 13:03:39 +0800
To: John Young 
Subject: Re: Checking CDR
In-Reply-To: <199809091748.NAA15881@camel8.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Looks like rigel.cyberpass.net has been down for about 24 hours.  Hardware
problems?

On Wed, 9 Sep 1998, John Young wrote:

> Those of us on cyberpass.net are not getting mail this
> morning so I've subbed to algebra and ssz to see if the
> x-posting is working.
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 16:35:47 +0800
To: John Young 
Subject: Re: CP Cite
In-Reply-To: <199809091318.JAA17051@camel7.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I link to I believe seven messages in my article today.

The one that Gordon apparently cites is this:

[Bienfait Nutly News-Sidney, Montana]A BIENFAIT CYPHERPUNKS
Distributed meeting took place early this morning via an
BlackBox hookup between the South 40, in Sidney, and the
CoalDust Saloon, in Bienfait.
The main issue of discussion was as to whether anyone was
sober enough to remember where the MadBomber In Possession
Of The Last False Smile had actually placed the bomb before
embarking on a middle-leg of the TruthMonger SoftTarget Tour
of Planet Terra.

Estevan City Police, hearing rumors of the Virtual Attack
on the Saskatchewan Justice System via the MeatSpace tools
commonly available to those who own no firearms and don't
need no stinking badges, chose to delay a search for the
bomb, in order to plan what type of news spin should be
put on the event in order to maximize the justification
for an increased local police budget to combat international
terrorism, child pornography, drug-dealing and A HorseMan

-Declan


On Wed, 9 Sep 1998, John Young wrote:

> We're putting together copies of cpunk messages Jeff 
> Gordon cites in the Carl Johnson complaint and have 
> found all in the archives except one dated June10, 1998. 
> Jeff describes it:
> 
>    15. On June 10, 1998, an anonymous message was 
>    posted to the Cypherpunks Internet group. In the
>    message, it is stated that the bomber "placed the bomb 
>    before embarking on a middle-leg of the TruthMonger
>    SoftTarget Tour of Planet Terra." The message also 
>    referenced an RCMP plan to "drive a known madman 
>    crazy enough to finally put him away turned bad, and
>    resulted in a backlash of death and destruction ..." I 
>    noted that this message contained information about the
>    courthouse bomb incident which had not previously been 
>    made public, and was written in a style and manner
>    which I recognized as being similar to other writings 
>    which my investigation has linked to JOHNSON. In his
>    interview with Special Agent Sheridan, JOHNSON 
>    acknowledged using the name TruthMonger, and also
>    stated he had psychological problems, both of which 
>    correspond to this message. 
> 
> We'd appreciate getting a copy (yes, Jeff, if you would, anon ok).
> 
> BTW, there's a brief message from Lucky Green yesterday
> in the archives on CEJ which did not appear on the
> cyberpass list, AFAIK, although it was sent to ssz.com. Do such
> gaps happen much in CDR?
> 
> Yeah, yeah, I post to toad, and aim to be the last one who
> does, so drive me AP-mad.
> 
> BTW2, anybody know what Linda Reed thinks of her infame?
> 
> BTW3, we heard from TX that CJ's music/perform art is going to 
> be boosted in concert with his god-sent cornseed of publicity.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Bernardo B. Terrado" 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 14:39:24 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: question...
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



What is the TEMPEST? (just an overview)

What do enciphered images look like?



Thank you.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Some people they might say that I'm hard to get to know.
I go my own sweet way, well that maybe so.
Something about the crowd that makes me walk alone. 
I never had a need in me to be the party's life and soul.

It's me Bernie.
metaphone@altavista.net
``````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Raymond D. Mereniuk" 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 16:08:48 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Citizenship silliness.  Re: e$: crypto-expatriatism (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199809082359.SAA12044@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <199809092123.OAA17355@leroy.fbn.bc.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



William H. Geiger IIIwrote

> Once an alternative fuel source is discovered that is more economical than
> oil, the arabs will slip back into obscurity.

Good point!  Ever wonder why a decreasing commodity non-
renewable resource is becoming cheaper as the known reserves 
become smaller?  

Maybe they want to sell it all before it becomes obsolete and 
maximize their income from that resource.

Within the oil business I have heard this mentioned in regards to 
natural gas.



Virtually

Raymond D. Mereniuk
Raymond@fbn.bc.ca




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 14:22:46 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Citizenship silliness.  Re: e$: crypto-expatriatism
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 11:52 AM -0500 9/9/98, William H. Geiger III wrote:
>In , on 09/09/98
>   at 09:58 AM, Petro  said:
>>At 11:25 PM -0500 9/8/98, William H. Geiger III wrote:>>>In
>>, on 09/08/98
>>>   at 06:17 PM, Petro  said:
>>>>	No, more like a get off our fucking land.
>>>Sure thing, and where you live, exactly who's land was it before you got
>>>there?
>>	Point is, the "Arabs" didn't start it, the UN/European leaders (US, UK,
>>FR, and RU) did.
>Both the Palestinians and the Jews living in Trans-Jordan wanted their own
>country. The UN resolution divided up the land based on population and
>gave each group their own country. Israel declared their independence, the
>Palestinians listened to the Grand Mufti and join in the holy war to wipe
>out the Jews. The Arabs lost, too bad, game over.
>
>And interesting note to the whole palestinian "issue" is that the majority
>of the population of Jordan is palestinian!! And long before the Intifada
>the PLO tried to take over the government of Jordan and were embroiled in
>civil war for most of the 60's and early 70's. The Jordanian Arabs finally
>kick the PLO out in the early 70's (71 maybe 72).
>
>
>>	If I move you off your property at the point of a gun, should I expect
>>you to _like_ it, even if I gave you what I consider "fair market value"?
>
>This re-wright of history might give you warm fuzzies but no one was moved
>at gun point off their land (at least not until the Arabs started the
>war). The Jews that emigrated to Trans-Jordan/Palestine *purchased* the
>land from the Arabs that were living there. Even after the war the
>majority of palestinians left on their own.

	Ok, I'm rewriting history, you say IN THE SAME POST:

The UN resolution divided up the land based on population and gave each
group their own country.

	--and--

The Jews that emigrated to Trans-Jordan/Palestine *purchased* the land from
the Arabs that were living there.

	So tell me, is there a difference between being _told_ you will
sell your house and move, and deciding you really would prefer to live
elsewhere? Oh, and when this artifical coutry was set up, did EVERYONE have
equal say in the government, or were certain Northern Europeans of jewish
faith considered more equal. Of course, being given the short end of the
political and economic stick couldn't be considered an incitement.


>None of the current Arab countries existed until the British carved up
>their conquered territory after WWI. If Israel is not "legitimate" because
>of UK/UN involvement does it follow that all of the Arab states that were
>formed at this time are also illegitimate? Perhaps we should should

	The region was carved up using an existing population, not by
importing one from a different country.

	Like Mr. May, I have no problems with anyone who wants to live
anywhere in peace and co-existence.

	The Israeli government is not interested in that, if it were
politically possible, they'd do the same to the Palistanians as the Germans
tried to do to them.

>I find it quite hypocritical of Americans who see the Israelites as
>occupiers and oppressors but would be outraged at calls to give back the
>south-west to Mexico. Tim, you want to give your ranch to some Mexican
>family since the Americans took that land from them? but then the mexicans
>would have to give that land back to some deserving "native" Americans as
>they took that land from them. But then again we would have to sift
>through the thousands of years of tribal warfare and migration to find the
>one true owners of the land.

	You seem to be saying that Conquest by Force Of Arms is acceptable,
then the PLO is still trying to take back what they lost.

petro@playboy.com----for work related issues. I don't speak for Playboy.
petro@bounty.org-----for everthing else.      They wouldn't like that.
                                              They REALLY
Economic speech IS political speech.          wouldn't like that.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 10:03:00 +0800
To: Matthew James Gering 
Subject: RE: Computer hard disc scanning by HM Customs & Excise
In-Reply-To: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A192845C6@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980909143613.00c51da0@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>> > Just set the BIOS not to boot to floppy, 
>> If the customs people have any clue, the first thing they do 
>> is hit DEL at the appropriate BIOS prompt
>I think you give them WAY too much credit, not to mention many systems
>give no such prompt. But highly suspect if anything they will check the
>BIOS *after* first not being able to boot to floppy successfully.

Any tax-collector who's illiterate enough to ask "Do you have Internet
on your computer" is probably not going to know what's happening,
especially given the disparity of system boot behaviour.

Some things may get their attention, like the sound card yelling
	"Begin destruct sequence!  10, 9, 8, 7....."
or, more politely, 
	"Stop, thief!  Help, someone is stealing this computer!"
or	"Virus detected.  Please remove the infected diskette
	and contact corporate security for further instructions"
but your basic subtleties like a Linux boot screen and 
copying the diskette to backup and then wiping it are 
beyond the typical border guard's technical training, and 
don't smell interesting enough to get his dog's attention 
(unless there's a good high-pitched tone as well.)

I may post a more thoughtful article about the offensiveness of this
practice or the technical cluelessness, but for now I'll just
rant about the sheer folly of allowing anybody to touch your computer 
whose primary training is in Shouting and looking for people who
match profiles, like Irish accents or obvious wealth or obvious poverty.
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 10:01:09 +0800
To: Robert Hettinga 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980909144109.00c57ac0@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Nothing surprising about it - just implant your basic lost-pet ID chip,
and set up a detector to read it.  All commercially available except
perhaps the computer interface to the detector, which isn't
all that complex either.  The more interesting journalism question isn't 
the lack of archive-checking by the journalist or this year's
claimant to firstness, but what political spin the professor tried to push 
with his press release and interviews and whether it was accepted
blithely or skeptically.

>> > READING, England -- Professor Kevin Warwick claimed Tuesday to be the
>> > first person in the world to have a computer chip surgically implanted
>> > into his body.
>> [...]
>> > Warwick demonstrated the chip in action by walking through the front
>> > door of his department. "Good morning, Professor Warwick. You have five
>> > new emails," said a computerized voice activated by the inserted chip.
>> [...]
>
>Kac implanted a computer chip in his body last year [...]

>i wonder to what extent journalists fact-check these "firsts".
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Gillogly 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 16:45:22 +0800
To: aba@dcs.ex.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Carl Johnson's private key
Message-ID: <9809092144.AA11404@mentat.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Adam skribis:
> That was just a public key, though right?  Was a corresponding private
> key posted?

Oh, you're right.  I misremembered.  This was actually two public keys,
an RSA and an ElGamal.  Still, I'm pretty sure there was a *Monger
private key posted  time.

	Jim Gillogly




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Greg Broiles 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 17:00:36 +0800
To: "Brian W. Buchanan" 
Subject: Re: radio net (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199809091239.HAA15369@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <199809092202.PAA23854@ideath.parrhesia.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 07:57 AM 9/9/98 -0700, Brian W. Buchanan wrote:
>On Wed, 9 Sep 1998, Jim Choate wrote:
>> The FCC prohibits the transmission of encrypted data via analog or digital
>> signals by amateurs.
>
>I'd love to see them try to enforce that.  What about chaffing and
>winnowing?  Stego?  Transmission of random noise? ;)  Anyone have the text
>of the actual rules concerning this?

I don't know of a persistent web copy of the regs (only query-based ones,
where the queries are only good for a few hours), but the regulation you're
looking for is 47 CFR 97.113 -

"(a) No amateur station shall transmit: . . . . (4) Music using a phone
emission except as specifically provided elsewhere in this section;
communications intended to facilitate a criminal act; messages in codes or
ciphers intended to obscure the meaning thereof, except as otherwise
provided herein; obscene or indecent words or language; or false or
deceptive messages, signals, or identification"

As I understand things (and I don't follow communications law, so I don't
think my opinion is well-informed), the restrictions only apply to
transmissions within the amateur band(s); so that's not applicable to, say,
the FRS (family radio service, a band recently opened to non-licensed
communications - used, for example, by the small Motorola TalkAbout
radios), or cordless/cellphone frequencies. 

PDF copies of the FCC regs are online at
; amateur ("ham") radio is at Part 97.

I'm working on a bigger rant about crypto and radio and guns and Y2K and
the net; the gist of it is that amateur radio people, who are generally
decent folks as individuals, have cozied up to the FCC to protect their
"radio privileges" and have been rewarded with a mountain of bureacratic
horseshit which outdoes even the idiotic regulations re crypto export and
firearms .. and it's enforceable because the people who got licenses from
the government to communicate with each other (but only in certain ways, on
certain frequencies, after identifying themselves) fall over themselves to
find people who *don't* think they need a license to communicate (or who
think that the First Amendment *is* their license), and they rat those
non-licensed folks out to the FCC. The FCC's got an army of unpaid
volunteer informers who watch their fellow subjects to ensure compliance
with these silly rules .. which leads to a situation where ham radios are
mostly useful for talking to other people about how the weather is in some
other part of the globe, and what kind of radio someone's got, and how big
their antenna is. The FCC (and parallel organizations in other countries)
are discussing liberalizing the regulations regarding amateur radio use,
and a significant fraction of the current radio people are opposed to the
liberalization, because it'll topple their little kingdoms and make their
hard-earned licenses and certifications uninteresting.

If you want to know what crypto regs and net use regs are going to look
like in 10-20 years, look at the amateur radio regs now - we'll have
citizens' committees (similar to the "block leaders" on GeoCities) who stay
up late at night, unpaid, watching their fellow subjects for signs of
pseudonym use, or the use of unlicensed/unapproved crypto, or "unlicensed
Internet broadcasting". The citizens' committees will explain that they're
dedicated volunteers devoted to keeping their communities "clean" and
"orderly", and that without their intervention the FIC would be unable to
ride herd on all of the wild people using programs nobody's inspected and
communicating with ciphers nobody can read, saying things that just
shouldn't be said because they'll make somebody upset or something.
Besides, children might be reading. Everyone wants to be polite, don't they? 


--
Greg Broiles        |History teaches that 'Trust us'
gbroiles@netbox.com |is no guarantee of due process.
                    |_Kasler v. Lundgren_, 98 CDOS 1581
                    |(March 4, 1998)




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Wayne Walker 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 17:48:58 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: SSZ is Down
Message-ID: <199809092250.PAA25688@netcom6.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I'm sending this for Jim (ravage@ssz.com) as he is a bit too busy just
now.

He just arrived at home to find the dog pinned under the tree that fell
and took out the phones and the ISDN.

The dog is apparently uninjured (though only two feet from certain
death).  Don't know which dog.

The ISDN is hurt and probably won't be up till sometime tomorrow.
 

                               Later,
                                  Wayne
--
Wayne Walker
Austin, Texas
E-mail wwalker@pobox.com

"Real Programmers don't document, if it was hard to program it should
be hard to use"




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 16:37:57 +0800
To: Tim May 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 12:07 AM -0500 9/9/98, Tim May wrote:
>Could our group be charged as a "continuing criminal enterprise" under the
>RICO statute?
>
>It occurs to me that if Carl Johnson, who is linked several times to our
>group/list in the court documents, is successfully prosecuted,then the Feds
>may be able to cite both Bell and Johnson as evidence of a conspiracy.
>Which probably wouldn't be too hard to prove, as many of us have admitted
>to conspiring mightily to undermine various institutions. (And we even use
>encypted e-mail, the very essence of a secret conspiracy.)

	As far as I know, conspiring to END the government, or change the
government is perfectly legal, as long as you are not planning on using
violence to carry it out.

	We (well, as many as are, we is a difficult thing on this list) are
prepared to _resist with violence_ the invasion of our homes, and (to a
different extent) the removal of our rights, but those are in themselves
illegal things, so defending oneself from them is the most basic
"inalienable right".

	Then again, we are dealing with the Peoples United Soverign States
Government.

>It might be fun to see them try this. Would they charge some of us as

	Well, at least for those of you rich enough to pay for lawyers. The
rest of us will either have to plea, flee, or die.

>ringleaders? Or would they declare the entity itself an illegal
>organization? (As they have done with various cultural, political, and even
>religous groups, like Hezbollah, the Aum religion, etc.)

	Hmmm, if they were to do this, how bout we have a second set of
servers running the distributed mailing list software under a different
name, say Sinderallapunx, or OldDemocrapunks.

	Ok, so being a "member" of cypherpunks is illegal, change the name,
let them have their "victory".

>Interesting times.


petro@playboy.com----for work related issues. I don't speak for Playboy.
petro@bounty.org-----for everthing else.      They wouldn't like that.
                                              They REALLY
Economic speech IS political speech.          wouldn't like that.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matt Elliott 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 16:24:44 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: RE: radio net (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A19284623@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Pig Latin or even the old 10 codes as in 10-4 are against the amateur
rules.  The only allowed code scheme is morse code and Q codes.  Both are
clasified as a well defined language.  Using english and having a
conversation that means something other than the standard usage is also
prohibited.  If you don't like it then stick to CB-Radio.  At least that is
the FCC's position.




>So much for "no domestic crypto restrictions." I really hate when people
>say that, there are plenty, and export restrictions on cryptography
>software and cryptography in software DOES indirectly but substantially
>affect the availability and cost of domestic encryption, not to mention
>that most people download export-grade crypto from the web for
>convenience.
>
>Isn't there a similar ban on encryption-capable telephones and other
>electronic devices (other than computers).
>
>	Matt
>
>
>> > The FCC prohibits the transmission of encrypted data via
>> > analog or digital signals by amateurs.



Matt 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 16:50:26 +0800
To: Petro 
Subject: Re: Citizenship silliness.  Re: e$: crypto-expatriatism
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199809092151.RAA07697@domains.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In , on 09/09/98 
   at 02:15 PM, Petro  said:

>	Ok, I'm rewriting history, you say IN THE SAME POST:

>The UN resolution divided up the land based on population and gave each
>group their own country.

>	--and--

>The Jews that emigrated to Trans-Jordan/Palestine *purchased* the land
>from the Arabs that were living there.

>	So tell me, is there a difference between being _told_ you will sell
>your house and move, and deciding you really would prefer to live
>elsewhere? 

Yes it is quite obvious that there is a difference from being *forced* to
give up your land, and willingly selling it. As I said before NO ONE WAS
FORCED OFF THEIR LAND until after the war that the arabs started. When war
did start it was the arabs that were trying to use FORCE to push the Jews
off of the land that they had legally purchased!!

>Oh, and when this artifical coutry was set up, did EVERYONE
>have equal say in the government, or were certain Northern Europeans of
>jewish faith considered more equal. Of course, being given the short end
>of the political and economic stick couldn't be considered an
>incitement.

Please explain why Israel is an "artificial" country while the rest of the
countries from the old Ottoman Empire were not? How much say did EVERYONE
have when the British set up KINGDOMS in countries like Saudi Arabia,
Jordan, Egypt? Until recently Israel was the *ONLY* democracy in that
region. IIRC Jordan and Egypt are the only arab countries that practice
any form of democracy at all (and Jordan still has a powerfull king as its
head of state).

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: OS/2 means...CURTAINS for Windows!

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3a-sha1
Charset: cp850
Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000

iQCVAwUBNfb6MI9Co1n+aLhhAQEj6AQAoTIceRmxCIKd7mYwoN3mTtgWDKJWXL5V
6BRVKhamjqhBxcqroAXdxQHXD+ClMBSybT8IiSREewRW6F3JnFM9F7i3gylOHAdC
w4q7KIhKUKeB9jCK5YvBqqEIqKwqNRTZvph/bMGD5QrcnetjlfOuI4pO8s9r3ffU
I6Lv9GjB0lI=
=ZDbu
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 17:04:25 +0800
To: "Raymond D. Mereniuk" 
Subject: Re: Citizenship silliness.  Re: e$: crypto-expatriatism (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199809092123.OAA17355@leroy.fbn.bc.ca>
Message-ID: <199809092205.SAA07866@domains.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In <199809092123.OAA17355@leroy.fbn.bc.ca>, on 09/09/98 
   at 02:09 PM, "Raymond D. Mereniuk"  said:


>William H. Geiger IIIwrote

>> Once an alternative fuel source is discovered that is more economical than
>> oil, the arabs will slip back into obscurity.

>Good point!  Ever wonder why a decreasing commodity non-
>renewable resource is becoming cheaper as the known reserves  become
>smaller?  

>Maybe they want to sell it all before it becomes obsolete and  maximize
>their income from that resource.

>Within the oil business I have heard this mentioned in regards to 
>natural gas.

Most of these countries are economically "one trick ponies" and have
little export revenue outside of oil. Because OPEC  has been a
failure at enforcing production quotas there is a surplus of oil on the
market thus driving down the cost (supply and demand).

There are also large reserves of oil in Alaska, Siberia and elsewhere that
are going unused along with other reserves that are too expensive to
extract the oil at current market prices. The so called "oil shortage" of
the 70's had more to do with Oil Companies profiteering than it did with
any actual shortage. I have seen estimates in the past of our domestic oil
reserves showing that we have enough oil to last another 100 years at out
current rate of increased consumption if we stopped all imports today.
Simple economics is that it is cheaper for us to import it than it is to
produce it domestically.

As much as the Greens whine and cry about alternative fuels, the simple
fact is that as long as oil is cheap no one is going to switch. 

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: Windows?  Homey don't play that!

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3a-sha1
Charset: cp850
Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000

iQCVAwUBNfb9g49Co1n+aLhhAQHHrQQAvX6z+/JeHTGzcT5PDdM+OeXOMcYDEIR3
mGm0I+R2Y0xzOgT01Z2h6DwJvy3e/bddd7+vFNUWuSCcbD33sFOO7psYWBgf2Vny
xtnlNLQDjI54QLye/XIugRaUI50pSgDC/SOytIr7swB9fSHbgPYUlTulRb+EV5xE
I0P5hjaPOzU=
=f5ED
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Sparkes, Ian, ZFRD AC" 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 23:13:16 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com
Subject: Re: Archives? What archives? (fwd)
Message-ID: <000001b000000184*/c=de/admd=dbp/prmd=telekom400/o=dmst02/ou=17/s=sparkes/g=ian/@MHS>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Here's the deal...

if someone gets a copy of the archives to me somehow, I 
pledge that I will get them  burned and will distribute 
them for cost price. I assume there will be two CDs as the 
data is apparently around 1GB. I have already checked, and 
for a run of 300 (should be enough to cover all the 
non-apathetic CP list members) the costs are:
     DM1,67 = 92 cents each
     = $1,84 + VAT = $2,15.
Add postage onto this.

A really great idea would be to include the coderpunks 
archive on any space that were left over. But first of all, 
I'll keep the focus as the greatest enemy of 'good' is 
'great'.

Note: IMPORTANT: The rep was emphatic - you shouldn't 
forget that this price includes *2 color* labelling! Makes 
the offer kind of irresistable doesn't it?

Why am I doing this? Because just as Tim pointed out, this 
has been discussed more than once but there have been no 
results. At least none that I have heard of in the last 
year.

One point - I am outside of the US. Good for europeans, but 
perhaps a little expensive for US-CPs. Maybe someone would 
like to take over the US distribution. (WHGIII?) I could 
get 50% to the states for distribution.

Anyone wants to arrange this with me, contact me off-list. 
If no one does, then I'll start bugging people until 
something happens ... 

Ian

At 14:28 04.09.98 -0500, you wrote:
>In 
, 
on 09/04/98 
>   at 09:02 PM, Asgaard  said:
>
>>Ray Arachelian wrote:
>
>>>It was done... Remo Pini (www.rpini.org or some such) 
was the dude
>
>>www.rpini.com
>
>>Crypto CD Vol 1 has lots of stuff on it but I never found 
any archive of
>>the CP list(s). Perhaps I didn't look enough.
>
>I didn't find any either.
>
>Also someone mentioned previously of pre-1995 online 
archives. Anyone have
>a pointer to these?
>
>There is a local company here that does CD duplication and 
Harddrive
>archiving to CD. I can check and see how much they would 
want to burn a CD
>with the CP archives on it. I would imagine that list 
members would prefer
>RockRidge extensions? OS/2 supports both Joliet & 
Rockridge so it does not
>matter to me one way or the other. :)
>
>-- 
>----------------------------------------------------------
-----
>William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
>Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0
>
>Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
>PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
>OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
>----------------------------------------------------------
-----
>
>
>




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 16:09:56 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Cypherpunks as a Continuing Criminal Enterprise?
Message-ID: <199809092110.RAA08478@panix7.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



   >   From: Tim May 
   >
   >   Could our group be charged as a "continuing criminal enterprise" under the
   >   RICO statute?

OH GAWD PLEASE SOMEBODY SHUT DOWN THE MAY RANT-BOT!

---guy ;-)




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 16:21:30 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Carl Johnson Warrant and Complaint
Message-ID: <199809092122.RAA08765@panix7.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



   >   From: Anonymous 
   >
   >   Note to the clueless guy@panix.com, who asks:
   >   > Entirely unexplained is how one goes from passphrase "sog" (Shit on government?)
   >   > to decrypting the PGP message.
   >
   >   I'm impressed.  You're actually stupider than Jeff Gordon, the IRS flunky.
   >   He was able to figure it out, so why don't you try.  Ask your kindergarten
   >   teacher to give you a gold star once you fumble your way to the answer.

Nice shot: your feet are now on fire.
---guy




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 18:06:55 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Citizenship silliness.  Re: e$: crypto-expatriatism (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199809090416.AAA25585@domains.invweb.net>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 5:09 PM -0500 9/9/98, Raymond D. Mereniuk wrote:
>William H. Geiger IIIwrote
>
>> Once an alternative fuel source is discovered that is more economical than
>> oil, the arabs will slip back into obscurity.
>
>Good point!  Ever wonder why a decreasing commodity non-
>renewable resource is becoming cheaper as the known reserves
>become smaller?

	Could it be that certain large players (say, the U.K, U.S. Soviet
Union &etc) have a vested interest in cheap oil as long as possible, so
they do things (like create the state of israel, and give it lots of
economic aid) to destablize the region, keep the people of that area at
each others throats &etc. so that OPEC can't agree to control prices...

	Nah, I'm just paranoid.

petro@playboy.com----for work related issues. I don't speak for Playboy.
petro@bounty.org-----for everthing else.      They wouldn't like that.
                                              They REALLY
Economic speech IS political speech.          wouldn't like that.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 17:15:25 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: A Cypherpunk Trial, Yes
Message-ID: <199809092216.SAA19854@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Adam Back wrote:

>The collection of Toto's keys that he did post and the date he posted
>might be useful to archive at jya.com so that we can see which if any
>of Gordon's claims of proof of authentic Toto messages are valid.

Yes, this is a crucial point. The innuendo of the complaint needs
checking, and read with a heap of salt, although it's probable that 
the Feds have more than revealed so far. They've more fanciful 
stories to spiel of the confabulous material of the Mounties and 
Estevan Bombies, and SS agents and bunkered magistrates 
and imperiled Cindys needing protection from the Killer Bots.

To hawk tickets we have added links within the complaint to all 
the Cpunk messages cited, but for those who don't want to 
download it again or search the archives, here they are 
chronologically:

   http://jya.com/jg062397.htm
   http://jya.com/jg090497.htm
   http://jya.com/jg120997.htm
   http://jya.com/jg121497.htm
   http://jya.com/jg060898.htm (not June 10, as in the complaint; thanks to
jeff-anon)
   http://jya.com/jg072598.htm
   http://jya.com/jg072798.htm

It was a pleasure to reread Toto(s)'s stuff while searching the 
cpunk amazing archives -- what a waterfall from everyone of free 
association, tants, jibes, potshots and richochets and self-mockery. 
I now believe the report from TX that Carl's got an IQ off the charts
like all cpunks off the wall.

It's worth keeping in mind that multiple users of pseudonyms is
not unusual, at least among artists long before the Internet, and 
not only performance group e-mailers like the Totos, CJ Parkers, 
XxxMongers, Gus-Peters and endless Anonymees jostling for
unrecognition.

Two venerable and heavily-used nyms in Europe are Luther Bissett 
and Monty Cantsin. A dazzling Monty Cantsin posted here for a 
while. A Luther Bissett message ridiculing the recent kiddie porn
sweep was posted to Cyberia a few days ago. But these pseudonyms 
and others are frequently used to taunt uptight authoritarians by 
substantial numbers of people, sometimes acting in concert but 
most often acting alone.

An exemplary case of acting up like the Totos and other performance
pseudo-Feynmann's here, is that of Dario Fo, the Italian artist who 
recently won the Nobel Prize. His off the chart genius, too, was in 
mixing the real and imaginary to challenge, and to frighten, authority 
into revealing their treacherous deception of the real and imaginary 
to maintain state and religious control century after century, culture
after culture. He, too, was regularly condemned by those obsesses
with holding onto power, and sometimes arrested, for his imitations
of them at their most buffoonish and serious.

Fo is from an earlier generation, though, and what more agressively
offensive form is suitable for those younger we may be witnessing in 
the Jim Bells, Unknown Arrestees, and those here not yet projected 
onto the world stage but working the crowd most effectively.

Black Unicorn, step up to the mike. Show magic.

In any, case, I'm delighted to see Cypherpunks get credit in the Johnson
pseudo-complaint for hosting transgressive art appropriate for the age of 
widespreading disinformation. A tumultous trial to amplify this forum's 
mayhemic virtues and vices would be magnificently chaotic and hopefully 
anarchic to the max. 

Pray for CJ to get an equally mad attorney to demand his day, and our day, 
in court. This under-recognized witness is eager for a highly offensive 
part to play, a gibbering idiot like Toto(s), you bet, I admire their style of
spleen and threat to the fools of seriousness.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 10:47:50 +0800
To: users@einstein.ssz.com (SSZ User Mail List)
Subject: SSZ down (whatta story!)...
Message-ID: <199809092353.SAA17964@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Hi,

Sorry for the downtime but a big (40ft.) tree fell and took out the phone
lines, nearly squished one of my dogs, and had the power lines under some
considerable tension.

If you're receiving this then everything should be back up and operating
normaly. No further downtime is expected.

Now back to your normal bat channel...


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 17:38:57 +0800
To: Jim Van Over 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980909191149.007dfb50@m7.sprynet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 09:11 AM 9/9/98 -0700, Jim Van Over wrote:
>I am seeking assistance with a PGP 5.5.5 system and noting your comments
>on the net I thought it might be possible for you to help me with a
>solution.
>
>I have been using PGP5.5.5, successfully, for the past four months.
>However, beginning three days ago I began experiencing a problem.  I am
>using Netscape Navigator and the Netscape Message Center.  The problem:
>When I receive a PGP message I copy it to the clipboard, but, when I
>depress the "decrypt and verify" line on the PGP tool bar the screen for
>the "pass phrase" flashes briefly on the screen and disappears.  The


Are all the keys you're sending to VERIFIED?   Launch PGPKeys.










  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 21:28:23 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Casual Talk Can Produce Wealth of Corporate Intelligence Data
Message-ID: <199809100229.TAA03175@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: Richard Sampson 
Subject: IP: Casual Talk Can Produce Wealth of Corporate Intelligence Data
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 22:42:21 -0400
To: "ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com" 

 Casual Talk Can Produce Wealth of Corporate Intelligence Data
Sep. 6 (The Record/KRTBN)--"Spies are the most important element in war,

" Sun Tzu wrote in "The Art of War," "because upon them depends an
army's ability to move."

The man in this story is one such spy, but his battlefield isn't a
blood-soaked Third World country, and his army wears no uniforms and
carries no guns. His battlefield is the grand panorama of world
commerce, his army a well-known, high-tech company in North Jersey.

This man -- he spoke on condition of anonymity -- for four years has
been the company's director of competitor intelligence. His job is to
study competitors and gather information his company can use to make
strategic decisions on everything from mergers to new-product launches
to pricing.

Unlike covert operatives -- who engage in all sorts of skulduggery to
gather information, from phone taps to undercover work -- he relies on
public sources: the Internet, government documents, published reports,
and trade shows.

Beyond that, his greatest resource is the eyes and ears of company
employees: the salesman who regularly encounters competitors on the
plane, the executive who hobnobs with officers from other high-tech
companies, the company spokesman who deals with the media, the
secretary who answers the phone.

"Eighty percent of what you need to know about your competition is
already in your company," he said. "You just don't know where it is."

On the Internet, this corporate spy will monitor competitors' Web
sites, and also his company's own, using software tools that allow him
to determine who is visiting the site and which pages they're viewing.
Since many competitors use aliases, additional research is necessary to
determine who is targeting the site.

He also monitors chat groups on the Web to determine who is discussing
his company in cyberspace.

Within the company itself, "several dozen" people are assigned
competitive intelligence functions, including human resources
personnel, secretaries, and press officers. But everybody is in on it.
Airline tickets issued to employees carry a suggestion to be
"competitor aware," a subtle reminder to keep eyes and ears open at all
times and to make sure they don't inadvertently leave documents where
competitors can find them.

And, according to the spy, it works. Here's how:
 In one instance, a salesperson preparing to demonstrate a product for
a customer was asked if any special equipment was needed. When the
salesperson requested a specific type of monitor, the customer said it
wouldn't be a problem, since a competing high-tech company had recently
requested the identical monitor.

>From that bit of information, the salesperson was able to determine
which product his competitor was pitching and to tailor his
presentation to point out the weaknesses in the competitor's product,
allowing him to close the sale.

In another instance, a salesperson called up a customer and discovered
that another company had begun offering a deep discount on a competing
product. The move was initially interpreted as a "full court press" to
gain market share, and the company began contemplating deep discounts
of its own.

But within 24 hours, the competitive intelligence unit -- using media
reports and the Internet -- was able to determine that the competitor
was trying to decide whether to discontinue the product. Salespeople
were dispatched with instructions to inform customers of that fact -- a
so-called FUD mission, since it instills "fear, uncertainty, and doubt"
in customers -- and a potentially devastating price war was averted.

"It was a bullet avoided," he said.
 The corporate spy's true forte, however, is the trade show, where
dozens of companies gather to hawk their wares, and schmoozing is the
order of the day.

As many as a dozen operatives will be employed to gather information
at a trade show, each one assigned to a specific exhibition booth,
panel discussion, or press conference.

One might sidle up to a human resources representative at a
competitor's exhibition booth, start a conversation about the
difficulty of finding good employees, and walk away minutes later with
the number of employees the company hired for a specific unit.

Another might collar a reporter for the trade press and pump him for
information. Another might be assigned to stake out the restaurant
where the executives from a competing company gather for breakfast
every morning. Another might hurl questions at a competing executive
who is speaking at a panel discussion.

"A lot of times you can ask them a question from the floor," he said.
"You never hear them say, 'Who do you work for again?' "

Within 24 to 48 hours, all the operatives will write down what they
have learned, which is then analyzed and condensed into a document for
distribution within the company.

The corporate spy says his operatives adhere to a strict ethics code
that prohibits them from misrepresenting who they are  and what they
are doing. The code also prohibits theft, trespassing, and other
illegal acts.

But he said the inability of most people to refrain from casual
conversation with a friendly stranger makes such tactics unnecessary.
What remains vitally necessary, however, is making the best use of the
information at one's disposal.

"You're not seeing Reds under the bed," he said, an allusion to Cold
War-era spying that targeted Communists. "You're trying to extend your
product cycle by six months. And you have to be aware that information
can sink you in a hurry."

By Louis Lavelle

-0-
 Visit The Record, Hackensack, N.J., on the World Wide Web at
http://www.bergen.com

(c) 1998, The Record, Hackensack, N.J. Distributed by Knight
Ridder/Tribune Business News.  END!A$9?HK-BIZ-SPY


News provided by COMTEX.
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--
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a
prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------





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     majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 21:28:27 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: FTC: Internet merchant barred for life from "net-based" commerce
Message-ID: <199809100229.TAA03186@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: Richard Sampson 
Subject: IP: FTC: Internet merchant barred for life from "net-based" commerce
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 15:10:43 -0400
To: "ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com" 

FTC: Internet merchant barred for life from "net-based" commerce
 SEP  9, 1998, M2 Communications - An Internet "entrepreneur" who
advertised low priced computers in online auction houses and collected
the sales price but never delivered the goods would be barred for life
from conducting any Internet commerce, under the terms of a settlement
with the Federal Trade Commission. The defendant, who did business as
Experienced Designed Computers and C&H Computer Services, would be
prohibited from advertising, marketing or selling goods or services via
the Internet, from making misrepresentations about any goods or
services he sells and from violating the Mail or Telephone Order
Merchandise Rule.

The defendant, Craig Lee Hare, also known as Danny Hare, operates
from Lake Worth, Florida.

In April, 1998, the FTC alleged that Hare had used online auction
houses to offer new and used computers for sale. After "successful
bidders" paid as much as $1,450 per computer, Hare provided them with
neither the computer nor a refund. At the request of the FTC, a federal
district judge issued a temporary restraining order and froze Hare's
assets, pending trial. The agency asked the court to issue an
injunction permanently barring Hare from violating the FTC Act and the
Mail or Telephone Order Merchandise Rule. The stipulated permanent
injunction and final judgment announced today would settle those
charges.

The settlement would permanently bar Hare from participating in any
online commerce. It also would bar him from misrepresenting his
identity in commercial e-mail and misrepresenting any fact that is
material to a consumer's decision to purchase any goods or services in
any form of commerce. In addition, the order would prohibit future
violations of the Mail or Telephone Order Merchandise Rule. Finally,
the order provides record keeping provisions to allow the FTC to
monitor compliance.

Stephanie J. Herter, also known as Stephanie Branham, also entered in
a settlement with the Commission. She was named in the FTC complaint
against Hare as a relief defendant because checks Hare received from
consumers were deposited in her checking account. In settlement of the
charges against her, Herter will release Hare's funds in that account
to be used for consumer redress, or, if that is impractical, to be
deposited into the U.S. Treasury.

The stipulated permanent injunctions were filed in the U.S. District
Court, Southern District of Florida, West Palm Beach Division.

NOTE: These consent judgments are for settlement purposes only and do
not constitute an admission by the defendants of a law violation.
Consent judgments have the force of law when signed by the judge.

Copies of the complaint, Stipulated Final Judgment and Orders and a
consumer alert, "Online Auctions: Going, Going Gone!" are available
from the FTC's web site at http://www.ftc.gov and also from the FTC's
Consumer Response Center, Room 130, 6th Street and Pennsylvania Avenue,
N.W., Washington, D.C. 20580; 202-FTC-HELP (202-382-4357); TDD for the
hearing impaired 202-326-2502. To find out the latest news as it is
announced, call the FTC NewsPhone recording at 202-326-2710.

-0-



(C)1994-98 M2 COMMUNICATIONS LTDCONTACT: Claudia Bourne Farrell,
Office of Public
Affairs
Tel: +1 202-326-2181



*M2 COMMUNICATIONS DISCLAIMS ALL LIABILITY FOR
INFORMATION PROVIDED WITHIN M2 PRESSWIRE. DATA
SUPPLIED BY NAMED PARTY/PARTIES.*


News provided by COMTEX.
[!BUSINESS] [!HIGHTECH] [!INFOTECH] [!WALL+STREET] [ADVERTISING]
[BUSINESS] [COMMERCE] [COMPUTER] [CONSUMER] [E-MAIL] [FLORIDA]
[INTERNET] [MARKETING] [MTO] [NEWS] [NEWSGRID] [ONLINE] [PENNSYLVANIA]
[SALES] [TRADE] [TRIAL] [USA] [WASHINGTON]


--
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a
prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------





**********************************************
To subscribe or unsubscribe, email:
     majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com
with the message:
     (un)subscribe ignition-point email@address
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**********************************************




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 15:40:02 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Toto posted his keys?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199809091857.TAA03261@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Anonymous notes:
> Gordon writes in the arrest note posted to jya.com:
> : [...]  In other words, only the person possessing the
> : secret key found on JOHNSON'S computer could have generated the "death
> :  threat" message.
> 
> Why would you claim only one person possessed the secret key? As you
> doubtlessly know, some of the TruthMonger secret keys have been posted
> to Cypherpunks anonymously. This is not authentication. Thank you.

Would you happen to recall the subject field or approximate date of
this message?  

(It's kind of difficult to search for Toto posts on various topics
because the From line is mostly forged, via a remailer, or forged as
coming from a remailer.  Ditto for the author, using a different nym
each time: TruthMongrel, DeathMonger, etc.)

The collection of Toto's keys that he did post and the date he posted
might be useful to archive at jya.com so that we can see which if any
of Gordon's claims of proof of authentic Toto messages are valid.

(I've got a set of archives going back to May 96 in RMAIL format, btw
if anyone wants to redo Ryan Lackey's `complete cpunks archive'.)

Adam




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 15:38:43 +0800
To: tcmay@got.net
Subject: Re: Carl Johnson Warrant and Complaint
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199809091912.UAA03276@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Tim May writes:
> As I'd been deleting nearly all of Toto's stuff unread, I missed all the
> stuff about (allegedly) threatening to bomb the RCMP. I recall seeing his
> "AP Bot" and "Dead Lucky" items, which came out before I was deleting all
> of his stuff.

It is kind of amusing that this FBI agent has been methodically
analysing Toto's posts when few if any here have read them all.
Particularly the one which apparently was sent to the list encrypted
with the password included -- I wonder if this FBI agent was pretty
near the only person who read it!  (I don't recall seeing the
message.)

It would seem that Toto's tendency for magical thinking, and his
theories on `synchronicity' are contagious, and that the FBI agent
ended up being drawn into Toto's magical thinking, conspiracy theory
filled world and imagining all kinds of hidden meanings in Toto's
posts.

Most of Toto's messages were fictional works such as `WebWorld', and
the others, cynical rants, conspiracy theories, etc.  No one here had
the faintest idea that any of this stuff was connected with reality.

One wonders about the Xenix chainsaw massacre, and the suitcase
nuke... fact or fiction :-)

Adam




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 10:49:16 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Citizenship silliness.  Re: e$: crypto-expatriatism (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809100116.UAA18005@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 11:29:14 -0500
> From: Petro 
> Subject: Re: Citizenship silliness.  Re: e$: crypto-expatriatism (fwd)

> 	There are lots of things you can make alcohol out of. Seaweed, etc.

True, but the amount of land needed to replace the oil reserves is a tad
excessive...

> for importation into the US.

Why? It's in their best interest to use the product in their own country.

> 	And what would you need to add to it to "color" the flame?

Indy racers  add various things to make it burn (usualy a orange) but I
don't have any references at hand and don't remember. Sorry I can't answer
that one specificaly.

> 	Put about 2% detergent (just about any grade will do) into that
> "water spray", and the fire goes out quicker, and stays out longer.

That'll work for gasoline because soap and gasoline are soluble. I doubt it
would work very well for alcohol but once I get this mess with the tree
straightened out I'll do a little backyard experiment.

What I had in mind was to pour some alcohol on the concrete drive way and
light it. Then use a waterbottle with a water/soap mix. Do you think that
would be a suitable simulation?

> 	There are plenty of unused roof tops here in Chicago bouncing free
> energy off into the air.

Yep, use the roof of every 10+ houses to power a single house...

> 	Again, there are a lot of tall buildings here where the wind is
> constantly moving. Also, we have this large, flat, relatively undeveloped
> area just to the east of chicago where the wind is constantly at least 10
> m.p.h. (from (admittedly imperfect memory) 7 m.p.h. is necessary to run an
> electric generator from a windmill) and where no one lives.

Ok, so you have acres and acres of power turbines on towers around Chicago,
where does Chicago move to? What about the rest of the country? The issue
after all is what happens when a renewable *replacement* for oil based fuels
is found? This is a much more global issue than Chicago. Besides putting a
wind generator on a building wouldn't even power the building.

> 	It's called Lake Michigan.

Ok, something got lost here...

> 	No, but it is PART of the solution.

Actualy it's not, if anything the pollution of mining, production, byproducts
of use such as acid rain, and some I've probably left out are only an
extension of the problem. The ignorance of long term costs of disposal and
ecological impact is one of my personal pet peeves with traditional economic
theory and why I pretty much think it's a pile of shit and economist in
general are idiots.

> 	Again, PART of the solution.

Ok, so we let PART of the people starve and die in the dark.

> 	The waste problem goes away of you build a decently stable launch
> platform and drop the shit into the sun.

We don't have engines at this point that can do that. The fact is that it
takes more energy to get to the sun than it does to leave the solar system.
Nope, not the answer. (I do experimental, ie big bird, rockets for grins and
giggles)

> "power sats" into orbit (altho I am not real clear on how the energy gets
> back down, something about using microwaves )

Microwaves, and god help you if you happen to fly through one. I won't even
talk about the costs of development, control, maintenance, etc. This won't
fly any time in the next couple of hundred years at least. What about the
heating of the water in the air, can you say global warming on a scale that
would make the current issues irrelevant.

> 	Also, you ignored, or didn't see the "mix of" statement. Oil CAN be
> replaced, and should be. There are plenty of ways to replace the energy

Absolutely, I want to replace it. I want to replace it with something that
is renewable, won't have the ecological impact of the others, won't squeeze
the small countries out, etc. If it requires killing a single salamander
then it's the wrong choice simply to make a profit.

> for clean air as much as the next guy, and I guess trees are kinda nice to
> look at, but I'd like to see far more diversity in energy sources, and
> investigation into more long term, renewable sources.

I love trees.

The problem is that there aren't that many renewable resources that won't
break the bank or create a have/have-not situation that would be rife with
conflict potential.

> 	Actually it looks like something that could be made in a factory.
> Take a methane source (sewage, rotting plant matter) pump it into really
> cold water under pressure, and blam.

You need pressure as well. But yes, this is a possibility as well. I
haven't seen the energy costs on this approach. The largest producers of
methane on the planet are cows. Perhaps we should shove a hose up the hinney
of all the cows...:)

> 	Depends on what you want it to replace. The one of the largest uses
> of oil is in the transportation sector, and "they" have been pushing
> Natural Gas there for years to little effect.

Absolutely, there is a hurdle to jump. One of the main issues with the
traditional natural gas deposits are that they are expensive because of the
drilling requirements, non-renewable, and not evenly distributed to
potential users. Something deep-ocean clathrates and potentialy your
industrial process idea don't have.

    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 10:49:20 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Citizenship silliness.  Re: e$: crypto-expatriatism (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809100135.UAA00119@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 09:58:16 -0500
> From: Petro 
> Subject: Re: Citizenship silliness.  Re: e$: crypto-expatriatism

> >Sure thing, and where you live, exactly who's land was it before you got
> >there?
> 
> 	Point is, the "Arabs" didn't start it, the UN/European leaders (US,
> UK, FR, and RU) did.

Actualy the tension between followers of Allah and Yahwe split long before
us poor westerners were doing much more than getting naked, painting
oursleves blue, and stabing each other with bronze and iron rods.

While it is true the modern political scene has exacerbated the situation,
it is untrue that it was the causation.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Raymond D. Mereniuk" 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 22:35:49 +0800
To: Petro 
Subject: Re: Citizenship silliness.  Re: e$: crypto-expatriatism (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199809092123.OAA17355@leroy.fbn.bc.ca>
Message-ID: <199809100350.UAA17882@leroy.fbn.bc.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Petro  wrote

>Could it be that certain large players (say, the U.K, U.S. Soviet
>Union &etc) have a vested interest in cheap oil as long as possible, 
>sothey do things (like create the state of israel, and give it lots of
> economic aid) to destablize the region, keep the people of that area at
> each others throats &etc. so that OPEC can't agree to control prices...
> 
> 	Nah, I'm just paranoid.

"William H. Geiger III"  wrote

>Most of these countries are economically "one trick ponies" and 
>have little export revenue outside of oil. Because OPEC  has 
>been a failure at enforcing production quotas there is a surplus of 
>oil on the market thus driving down the cost (supply and demand).

As William stated most of the OPEC nations are economic "one trick 
ponies" whose leaders don't see the big picture and the benefits of a 
cartel where all members co-operate.  Israel was part of the 
justification for screwing the world for more money in the so called 
70s oil crisis.  I would think that if the Arabs didn't have Israel to hate 
they would find some other group.

If you go back to the late 40s you will find many political deals done 
by the British which didn't make a lot of sense.  The British walking 
out of Burma and turning political control over to whoever the goofs 
are that ruined that country made no sense whatsoever.  The British 
turned political control of Malaysia over to the ethnic Malays where 
the Malays are not the original people of that region.  The Malays 
were immigrants much like most of the Chinese, they just got there 
300 years earlier.  

Falling oil prices probably hurt the USA and Soviet governments 
more than any possible benefit.  The Soviets export oil so they are 
hurting.  The US and most other western style democracies tax oil 
products based on its wholesale cost and retail selling pricing so 
they would see reduced revenues.

>There are also large reserves of oil in Alaska, Siberia and 
>elsewhere that are going unused along with other reserves that are 
>too expensive to extract the oil at current market prices. The so 
>called "oil shortage" of the 70's had more to do with Oil Companies 
>profiteering than it did with any actual shortage. I have seen 
>estimates in the past of our domestic oil reserves showing that we 
>have enough oil to last another 100 years at out current rate of 
>increased consumption if we stopped all imports today. Simple 
>economics is that it is cheaper for us to import it than it is to
>produce it domestically.

You can add possible large reserves in the Canadian Arctic.  The oil 
companies started to find it and they tried to think of a way to 
transport it.  The Canadian gov't vetoed all the transportation 
alternatives so the oil companies stopped exploration.

The middle east countries do have the oil reserves with the lowest 
cost of production.  Most reserves in North American are moderate 
to high cost of production.

Now if you want to be paranoid....   Before the 70s energy crisis we 
all drove big cars which had no problem doing the 65 MPH speed 
limit and back then we used to pass on two-lane highways.  The 
energy crisis came and we all accepted gutless foreign made small 
cars which consumed less energy and had a problem with the 55 
MPH speed limit and passing was impossible on a two-lane highway 
even if we found a section which was not double-lined.  

Now we have cheap oil.  Big powerful vehicles are back and we are 
not embarrassed to consume energy any more.  I have no idea 
where society is heading but I do like have a more powerful vehicle 
which capable of passing a vehicle already doing 65 MPH.

>As much as the Greens whine and cry about alternative fuels, the 
>simple fact is that as long as oil is cheap no one is going to switch. 

The whole Greens or tree-hugger thing is a bit hypocritical.  Ask 
them if they have electrical appliances in their home and the answer 
is always yes.  For a number of years the Greenpeace fundraisers  
would show up at the door asking for money to battle the forest 
industry and the evil pulp mills which used chlorine in their bleaching 
process and they would have white paper in their clipboards.




Virtually

Raymond D. Mereniuk
Raymond@fbn.bc.ca




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Nobuki Nakatuji" 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 23:08:16 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: MISTY encryption algorithm source code
Message-ID: <19980910035745.18097.qmail@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary..3996.1071713798.multipart/mixed"

--Boundary..3996.1071713798.multipart/mixed
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

MISTY source code posted by me at long ago had many mistake.
Attachment file are revised MISTY source code and revised readme.
Thanks.


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


misty.zip


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 14:10:10 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Carl Johnson Warrant and Complaint
Message-ID: <199809091908.VAA07970@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> Why would you claim only one person possessed the secret key? As you
> doubtlessly know, some of the TruthMonger secret keys have been posted
> to Cypherpunks anonymously. This is not authentication. Thank you.

Prove it.  Post the archived message where these secret keys were posted.
Let's see the one which signed:

http://www.inet-one.com/cypherpunks/dir.97.12.04-97.12.10/msg00356.html

Note to the clueless guy@panix.com, who asks:
> Entirely unexplained is how one goes from passphrase "sog" (Shit on government?)
> to decrypting the PGP message.

I'm impressed.  You're actually stupider than Jeff Gordon, the IRS flunky.
He was able to figure it out, so why don't you try.  Ask your kindergarten
teacher to give you a gold star once you fumble your way to the answer.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Raymond D. Mereniuk" 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 23:13:02 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Spot The Fed
Message-ID: <199809100428.VAA17926@leroy.fbn.bc.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



About a week ago I sent a message the list regarding Toto and how I 
found it hard to believe he was a country & western artist.  I 
mentioned a tribute to Toto and an URL pointing to a web page on a 
data security product at a web site which is total spoof.

The URL lead to a page touting a data security product called PUP, 
Pretty Useless Privacy.  I shamelessly plagiarized Toto's concept, 
and even some of sentences, from a post on Pretty Lousy Privacy.  
I even managed to get most of the characteristics of Snake Oil in 
one sentence.  The graphics on the page is a Snake Charmer.

Now you figure the Feds will visit for sure, just try and spot them.  
Resolve the IP addresses to a domain name might work but if they 
had a clue they would use dummy domains.

I would like to nominate the folks at IP address 204.249.179.54, or 
better yet the whole Class C as possible Feds.  The IP address does 
not resolve to a domain name, actually all the IP address in the 
Class C plus the 204.249.178 Class C.  I didn't bother to try any 
other neighbouring Class Cs.

I can understand a few IP addresses of isolated machines not 
resolving to a domain name but not the whole Class C.  You should 
also be able to see the default gateway's domain name.  

Seems like this may be the site of some paranoid privacy loving 
folks.  If I have slandered any Cypherpunk and their company, who 
may be at least privacy loving, please accept my apologies in 
advance but please let me know if I made a mistake. 







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 23:56:37 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Misty bot  (Re: MISTY encryption algorithm source code)
In-Reply-To: <19980910035745.18097.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 8:57 PM -0700 9/9/98, Nobuki Nakatuji   wrote:
>MISTY source code posted by me at long ago had many mistake.
>Attachment file are revised MISTY source code and revised readme.
>Thanks.
>

Does this guy have any life besides popping up every several weeks and
making a stupid comment about "MISTY"?

He never engages in debate, he never comments on things going on in Japan,
he never comments on export issues, he doesn't even defend himself from our
criticisms. He must be a bot...the Misty bot.

"My name Nobuki-san. You send money, I send source. Chop-chop, you go now.
I go read Misty Manga. "

(This last paragraph thrown in to make sure the various folks redolent with
"Caucasian guilt" will snort and sniff and claim I am a racist...because
Nobuki Nakatuji, with his suspicious "hotmail.com" address, sure won't step
forward.)

--Tim May

(This space left blank pending determ. of acceptability to the gov't.)
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 00:10:24 +0800
To: Adam Back 
Subject: Re: Toto describing a visit from SS agents
In-Reply-To: <199809100035.BAA07635@server.eternity.org>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I mention the alleged threats against the president in my article today,
and link to the email.

-Declan

On Thu, 10 Sep 1998, Adam Back wrote:

> 
> Again while searching for keys, another encrypted message (Subject:
> Secret Service With A Smile - SAHMD!!! / Pwd: lco, Date: 31 Jul 98)
> this message appears to refer to a visit from US Secret Service
> agents, apparently due to their imputing some kind of threat to US
> president(?) in one of Toto's rants.
> 
> Decrypted copy below [1].
> 
> Adam
> 
> [1]
> ======================================================================
> Secret Service With A Smile - SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS!!!
> ___________________________________________________________
> 
>   It was only natural for me to wonder what it was about the Secret
> Service Agents who visited me today that enabled them to act like
> decent, pleasant people during the course of the personal interview
> portion of their investigation into my life and psyche.
> 
>   The question was answered, to my satisfaction, at the point when
> the more veteran of the two agents explained that, despite my
> rugged handsomeness and my delightful personality, they would have
> to CrushMeLikeABug if it became apparent to them that my already
> tentative physical and mental existence came into conflict with
> their official duty to protect the President of the United States.
>   I realized that they were professionals, with a high degree of
> integrity, and that their concern probably went far beyond the
> fact that if the Nation lost the CommanderInChief on their shift,
> they could pretty much kiss their Christmas Bonus goodbye...
>   It was also apparent that their ability to be quite reasonable
> and pleasant human beings--while making it plain that informing me
> that putting me away for observation in Springfield, Missouri,
> could easily take away a full year of my life, was *meant* to be
> a threat--without having to engage in a heavy-handed affectation
> of MachoAuthority, was the result of their actually *having* the
> authority to decide, here and now, whether or not my life would
> instantly become a living hell.
> 
>   The Secret Service Agents were also extremely intelligent, not
> even blinking before passing on my offer to testify against myself,
> in return for immunity from prosecution.
>  (When I made the same offer to RCMP OffalSlurs, they had to 
>   contact their superiors, who held a meeting with OffalSchills
>   behind the closed doors of the Canadian Justice Apartment,
>   before finally declining my offer.)
> 
>   I was able to relax and be cooperative in dealing with the 
> Agents, since, when your fate is in the hands of someone with
> GenuineAuthority, whether their intentions are GoodOrEvil (TM)
> is not nearly as important as to whether or not they happen to
> be StupidFucks (TM) who can ruin your life over something as
> simple as misunderstanding your request that they make their
> questions more 'lucid.'
>  ("That's it, you sick, fucking pervert! Jim, get the kilo of
>   heroin out of the trunk...")
> 
> Wrong Question #29 When Dealing With StupidFucks:
>   "Excuse me, but do your employers *know* that you carry a gun?
> I mean, have they ever met you, or were you hired by mail? Can
> you actually shoot a gun without moving your lips?"
> 
>   Although the Secret Service Agents were in possession of an
> email I had sent a few minutes or hours previously, from Pima
> College -->  (who I immediately tried to Rat
> Out as the leader of a ChildSexRingDedicatedToTheViolentOver
> ThrowOfTheUSGovernment, in order to save my own skin), the
> agents seemed much more interested in a chapter of SAHMD!!!
> which contains notification of an OfficialDeathThreat to pretty
> much DoGodAndEverybodyOnTheFaceOfTheEarth.
>   I tried to placate them by reaching over with a pen and adding
> an 'Un' in front of the word 'Official,' but they were not really
> impressed, informing me that the point they were trying to make
> had to do with it being unacceptable, from their point of view,
> for me to use the words 'Death,' 'Threat,' and 'President' all
> in the same paragraph, let alone all in the same sentence.
> {"Well, excuuusssee *me*!"}
>   Realizing that it was probably not an opportune moment to try to
> hit them up for a donation toward the maintenance of my planned
> PresidentialDeathThreatAnonymousRemailer, I casually turned the
> donation jar so that they couldn't see the label, and I set it
> down.
> 
>   Actually, I couldn't be certain that I had actually written the
> chapter, or portion thereof, with which the agents seemed most
> concerned, since I find it difficult to distinguish between the
> work that is mine alone, and the work that is a collage of various
> participants in the writing and dissemination of 'The True Story
> of the InterNet' manuscripts, if I don't have access to the files
> on the computer on which they were created and stored.
>   Nonetheless, I refrained from pointing out that the phrase that
> indicates that the writer "might" conceivably "whack" someone or
> another GovernmentPersonage, might equally apply to the stance
> taken by the Secret Service Agents, themselves, if the Founding
> Fathers were to be believed when they indicated that it is the
> right and the duty of the citizenry to take up arms against their
> rulers, if need be, in the interest of Democracy, Freedom, Justice,
> or in DivineRetribution against the High&Mighty if they take a drink
> out of your beer while you're in the restroom, having a leak.
>  (I'm not certain about that last example, but I have no doubt that
>   the Founding Fathers *meant* to include that...)
> 
>   I refrained from attempting to engage the Agents in philosophical
> debate in regard to some of the finer points surrounding the issues
> of Freedom of Speech, since the purpose of their visit was obviously
> geared toward impressing upon me the duties encompassed by their job
> description, their professional competence in doing their job, and
> the fact that the necessity of making a return visit would very
> likely be an indication that Uncle Sam was about to become my new
> landlord.
>   To tell the truth, I was in a pretty scattered state of mind at
> the time of their visit, and I undoubtedly failed to adequately
> understand a good portion of the dialogue which took place, but
> they were very clear in explaining that, given my current state
> of unwelcomeness in Canada, I am running out of countries to go
> to, and that I should give serious consideration as to whether or
> not I wanted my next Literary Spamology to be titled, "Midnight 
> Express II."
>   Hhhmmm...decisions, decisions...
> 
>   Since my reading of the Secret Service Agents is that they are
> highly ethical professionals, with little need to persecute an
> individual out of thin-skinned, personal vindictiveness, I guess
> it wouldn't hurt to mention that, minutes after their departure,
> Linda Lou arrived home, announcing that there was yet another
> Tarantula in the driveway, headed toward the house...
> 
>   The obvious conclusion, of course, is that the Secret Service
> Agents are actually Reptilian Nazis, who are deeply involved in
> the WorldWidePlotAgainstMe.
>   This, in turn, leads to the dilemma of whether or not I should,
> on the occasion of a return visit, jump them and drive wooden stakes
> through their hearts, turning them into quivering pools of smoking,
> green slime. 
>  (Or is that Vampires? Shit! I'd better check, first, or it could
>   lead to a really embarassing situation.)
> 
>   On the other hand, since they were quite civil and reasonable
> in their dealings with me, and they apparently didn't eat any of
> the dogs, while here (although it might have been a different
> story, if we had poodles), then perhaps their is a chance that
> we and the Reptilian Nazis can live together in peace...unless it
> is a SneakyTrick (TM), of course...and they are trying to *confuse*
> me, so that I don't warn TheOthers...and they were only so pleasant
> because they were inwardly laughing at me for not realizing that,
> starting tomorrow, they are going to take control of the whole face
> of the globe, turning all humans into LobotomizedSlaves who exist
> only to serve their ReptilianNaziMasters!
> 
> QUICK, EVERYBODY! ARM YOURSELVES AND RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!!
> PREPARE TO ENGAGE THE REPTILIAN NAZIS IN VIOLENT, BLOODY STRUGGLE!
> START BY WHACKING OUT THE LAWYERS, AND THEN...
> 
>   Hold it! What the fuck am I ranting on about?
>   The Masses are *already* LobotomizedSlaves who exist only to serve
> their ReptilianNaziMasters...
> 
>   Maybe the agents were just here to see whether or not Baby is a
> poodle.
>   That makes more sense, since the Reptilian Nazis don't really 
> give a FatRat'sAss about the Jews, but they *do* want to round up
> all of the poodles shortly before the arrival of their Reptilian
> Nazi Relatives, so that there is plenty of barbeque at their
> PicnicToCelebrateTheConquestOfEarth.
>   Yeah, that's gotta be it...
> 
>   Actually, I'm rather glad that the Secret Service Agents dropped
> around to meet me in person, since people reading my copious literary
> effluvia sometimes mistakenly get the impression that I am some kind
> of Dogamned Weirdo, or something.
>   Still, I wish I had been able to refrain from going, "Cuckoo-Cuckoo"
> on the hour and the half-hour during their vist.
>   But, what the hell...I bet that a *lot* of the people they visit
> do that...
> ======================================================================
> 
> 
> 
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 16:35:45 +0800
To: jimg@mentat.com
Subject: Re: Carl Johnson's private key
In-Reply-To: <199809092006.NAA10324@zendia.mentat.com>
Message-ID: <199809092125.WAA05951@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Jim Gillogly writes:

> I stopped paying attention to most of Truthmonger's spew, but did
> collect one private key it posted, under the name "Earmonger", since
> I was doing PGP experiments at the time.  I think this one doesn't
> have an associated passphrase, which would make forging with it
> quite simple.

That was just a public key, though right?  Was a corresponding private
key posted?

> I sort of think more of its private keys were posted, but I didn't
> keep any others.  This does, however, establish a pattern of
> behavior suggesting it didn't keep private keys strictly private.

Well let's see how many Toto keys we can find which were posted to
cpunks.

Adam




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: User of DOOM 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 16:18:55 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: No Subject
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980909005149.0081d100@mail.xroads.com>
Message-ID: <199809092115.XAA24879@rogue.seclab.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>>>>> William J Hartwell  writes:

  > I think a radio network linked to the Amateur networks sending
  > secure packets, using tunneling or maybe just encrypted traffic

FCC regulations prohibit amateur radio services from carrying either
encrypted OR commercial traffic.  Either of these restrictions makes
amateur radio networks useless for CP purposes.  And hams are very
diligent at self-enforcement, often devoting hundreds of man-hours to
track down a single unlicenced operator.

Anyone who wishes to establish a network that may -- at any point in
its life -- have to operate outside the "law" (whatever THAT happens
to be at the time) will be well advised to steer clear of the amateur
radio community.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mixmaster 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 10:57:40 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com
Subject: No Subject
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3859418bc3deb43600e8455d83581c55@anonymous>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>>>>> Brian W Buchanan  writes:

  > I'd love to see them try to enforce that... Anyone have
  > the text of the actual rules concerning this?

This is enforced very strictly, with the diligent help of the amateur
radio community itself.

CFR47 says:

97.113 Prohibited transmissions. 

(a) No amateur station shall transmit:

  (1) Communications specifically prohibited elsewhere in this part;

  (2) Communications for hire or for material compensation, direct or
  indirect, paid or promised, except as otherwise provided in these
  rules;

  (3) Communications in which the station licensee or control operator
  has a pecuniary interest...

  (4) Music using a phone emission except as specifically provided
  elsewhere in this section; communications intended to facilitate a
  criminal act; messages in codes or ciphers intended to obscure the
  meaning thereof, except as otherwise provided herein; obscene or
  indecent words or language; or false or deceptive messages, signals
  or identification;

  (5) Communications, on a regular basis, which could reasonably be
  furnished alternatively through other radio services.

(b) An amateur station shall not engage in any form of broadcasting...

[...]

97.117 International communications. Transmissions to a different
country, where permitted, shall be made in plain language and shall be
limited to messages of a technical nature relating to tests, and, to
remarks of a personal character for which, by reason of their
unimportance, recourse to the public telecommunications service is not
justified.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 18:33:45 +0800
To: jya@pipeline.com
Subject: Re: A Cypherpunk Trial, Yes
In-Reply-To: <199809092216.SAA19854@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <199809092321.AAA07068@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




John Young writes:
> Adam Back wrote:
>
> >The collection of Toto's keys that he did post and the date he posted
> >might be useful to archive at jya.com so that we can see which if any
> >of Gordon's claims of proof of authentic Toto messages are valid.
> 
> Yes, this is a crucial point. The innuendo of the complaint needs
> checking, and read with a heap of salt, although it's probable that 
> the Feds have more than revealed so far. 

I've been searching through looking at posts containing BEGIN PGP
MESSAGE (ignoring the pgp-mime signatures which use the BEGIN PGP
MESSAGE).

Looky here, here's a "TruthMonger ", posted back in Sept.
97 (Toto's post below, so you can search for it in your cpunks mail
folder/search engines/web based cpunks archives [1]).  You were right
Jim.

Is this key the one used to sign any of the Toto rants, especially the
ones the IRS agent has been poring over and referring to in the
warrant?

It has a sig on it from 0x66FB8C65.  Any one fancy working out the set
of Toto public keys which are cross certified?  There are quite a few
keys I think.

Adam

[1]
======================================================================
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 01:58:52 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: Persistent Persona
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)

-----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE-----
Version: 2.6.2
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=HBLx
-----END PGP MESSAGE-----

-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
Version: 2.6.2
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=j6da
-----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 19:17:22 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: more keys
Message-ID: <199809100002.BAA07374@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




OK here's some more keys:

[1] for "Magic Circle"

[2] for "Necessarily Knott, ME"

Again were these keys used to sign anything interesting?

Key [1] was preceeded, perhaps meaningfully by this text in the long
(22k) Epilogue 5:

: Now:
: 
: Go home, kick your fucking door in, place a disk in the floppy drive, and
: type 'pgp -kxa "My KeyID" a:\secring.asc secring.pgp'.
: Mail the disk to Louis J. Freeh
: 
: Does your copy of PGP ask for a password before spitting out the KeyID
: to any one of a thousand monkeys who sits at your keyboard and
: randomly types in the above?
: 
: My copy doesn't.
: 
: Below is a copy of a key pulled off of my computer by 19 different people.
: 
: It was pulled off of my hard drive by the first individual, who
: proceeded to inform a second individual of the method used, and
: challenged them to do the same thing, using a different method. The
: second did so, and passed all the information along to a third person,
: etc., etc.
: 
: Nineteen people, nineteen different methods.

if Toto apparently speaks in parables, and via fiction etc. is he
saying that the RCMP or someone else pulled his keys off his
computers?  How does this correlate with his posts on the subject of
hassles with the RCMP, and confiscation of some of his machines?

Adam

[1]
======================================================================
This one has userid: Magic Circle

-----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE-----
Version: 2.6.2
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3D
=3DGEo6
-----END PGP MESSAGE-----

and it was posted in a message dated 20 Oct. 97 with Subject: InfoWar
Epilogue 5 / TEXT
======================================================================

[2]
======================================================================
-----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE-----
Version: 2.6.2

lQD4AzRmZWoAAAECAMnJrqd/TERCLeFscdgNvwVxrVG4tRm0VThMEXXkctCGMaUD
jcETxcV0ZseRUcyUKfqlLd3CRsIwClozlWHHR7EABREAAfwJ5D1Ecilit/Mwsn4N
GcWZXWpg3mM6/Epzs2pEhi3I926ZiWPB1DKmdZR4nVemsnwv47SWLJyCnE4sben5
h8oHAQDTFaJDJSN7+9NToOE4NFiruAXXMIHEQ6ZH21oW1sYSiwEA9LmhvfahDVKo
1/CMtxxozAtG8rWycBYVIVrkDKiVgjMBAKeB2VY/f7tzmv7KxUUtN9607+CQlWPp
E3HBLTlwtuRAUxC0FU5lY2Vzc2FyaWx5IEtub3R0LCBNRQ==
=caeb
-----END PGP MESSAGE-----

posted in a message dated 10 Nov. 97 with Subject: Key Signing 
======================================================================

Adam




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 20:20:22 +0800
To: jya@pipeline.com
Subject: RCMP hate page still around?
Message-ID: <199809100017.BAA07580@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Toto's web pages at sympatico are I think gone (or at least disabled).

Whilst searching for more Toto private keys I found this encrypted
message (Subject: Prologue 14/0 -- Passoword: cypherpunks), posted 26
Mar. 98.  You have to use a passphrase in all CAPS to get it to
decrypt.

Text below (seems to be a rant about police abuse, I presume some
local news item in Canada).  Hardly one thinks worthy of receiving the
attentions of the RCMP...  Wonder why the RCMP decided to confiscate
Toto's computers (and get his account at sympatico first monitored and
one presumes then cancelled).

Adam

======================================================================
                               The Official

                       Royal Canadian Mounted Police

                                 HATE Page

Kudos of the week go to Constable Dave Voller, who legally murdered a
gun-toting Wagon-Burner and the nine year old future glue-sniffer clinging
to her skirt.

Congrats, Dave. A hundred points for the woman, and five hundred for the
kid...

This is a good time to remind RCMP Officers across Canada that, despite our
long history of exercising a strong hand (and an even stronger nightstick
;?) in keeping the Wagon-Burners from storming the gates of white society,
current social and legal trends make it necessary for us to take every step
necessary to cover our ass when we take those measures needed to keep them
in their proper physical place (the reservation) and to keep them in their
proper attitudinal place even when they remain in their proper physical
place.

Remember that the procedures that we have put in place are for your
protection, and that if you stay within our guidelines, you can pretty much
waste as many Wagon-Burners as you wish, without suffering legal
consequences.

Constable Voller followed proper procedure in charging right into a
volatile situation with no backup, so that there would be no possibility of
conflicting stories from other officers invited to participate in the
adrenaline high involved.
He also had the foresight to waste the bitch with a shotgun, so that a wide
enough target area would be covered to take care of any potential witnesses
whose stories would not be subject to government pressure as to their
content.

Rest assured that if you murder a Wagon-Burner according to proper
procedure, that the members we claim not to be able to spare to supervise a
potentially deadly encounter with Wagon-Burners will suddenly become
available to pore over the murder site and absolve you of any wrongdoing.
A host of spin-doctors will also suddenly appear to remind the head
Wagon-Burners that 'good relations' with the Federal Government are
conditional on 'going along to get along.'

The RCMP Officers of the Wild, Wild West continue to lead the way in
keeping the Wagon-Burners constantly on the run, no matter how far they run
to try to escape.

The Estevan Detachment of the RCMP is living up to their long tradition of
effectively using other arms of law enforcement to effectively harass
Wagon-Burners while using a minimum of Federal resources.

You undoubtedly remember last year's article about the member of the City
of Estevan Police Department who was successful in getting the courts to
uphold his own brand of Frontier Justice for decades, until he made the
mistake of using a 'real' informant, thus making his cases vulnerable to
conflicting testimony as to his questionable activities.
As we reported, the prosecutor was able to railroad a couple of kids who
were represented by incompetent legal aide lawyers, by having the arresting
officer help to mentally muscle them outside the presence of legal counsel,
but the #1 Wagon-Burner on the local yokel's list was not able to be
railroaded at that time.

We reported with pride on the Estevan Detachment of the RCMP helping that
same local officer to once again set up the Wagon-Burner by helping in the
operation while staying out of the main action, so that the Wagon-Burner
and his White-Whore Wife were financially broken to the point where they
had to cop a plea.
Due to the Estevan Detachment's foresight, they didn't "get any on 'em"
when the local yokel finally got his chain yanked on bogus grounds that
protected the City of Estevan from taking any responsibility for his years
of abuse of authority.

To bring you up to date, not only is the Wagon-Burners oldest little
glue-sniffer currently being railroaded on criminal charges, but the
Estevan RCMP are once again setting a fire under the Wagon-Burner's ass by
supporting the Provincial Game Warden's persecution of the Wagon-Burner for
daring to hunt on the land that we stole from him, once again saving
Federal dollars from having to be used to finance their dirty work.

Today's Humor:

"First they came for the Wagon-Burners, but I was not a Wagon-Burner, so I
didn't speak up. Then they came for the Revisionists, but I was not a
Revisionist, so I didn't speak up. Then they came for the Freedom of Speech
Advocates, but I was not a Freedom of Speech Advocate, so I did not speak
up.
"Then they came for the Jews, and I got to put pepper-spray in their
Jesus-Killing eyes..."
~ Constable Hettinga
"I *love* this country!"
======================================================================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 20:20:17 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Toto describing a visit from SS agents
Message-ID: <199809100035.BAA07635@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Again while searching for keys, another encrypted message (Subject:
Secret Service With A Smile - SAHMD!!! / Pwd: lco, Date: 31 Jul 98)
this message appears to refer to a visit from US Secret Service
agents, apparently due to their imputing some kind of threat to US
president(?) in one of Toto's rants.

Decrypted copy below [1].

Adam

[1]
======================================================================
Secret Service With A Smile - SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS!!!
___________________________________________________________

  It was only natural for me to wonder what it was about the Secret
Service Agents who visited me today that enabled them to act like
decent, pleasant people during the course of the personal interview
portion of their investigation into my life and psyche.

  The question was answered, to my satisfaction, at the point when
the more veteran of the two agents explained that, despite my
rugged handsomeness and my delightful personality, they would have
to CrushMeLikeABug if it became apparent to them that my already
tentative physical and mental existence came into conflict with
their official duty to protect the President of the United States.
  I realized that they were professionals, with a high degree of
integrity, and that their concern probably went far beyond the
fact that if the Nation lost the CommanderInChief on their shift,
they could pretty much kiss their Christmas Bonus goodbye...
  It was also apparent that their ability to be quite reasonable
and pleasant human beings--while making it plain that informing me
that putting me away for observation in Springfield, Missouri,
could easily take away a full year of my life, was *meant* to be
a threat--without having to engage in a heavy-handed affectation
of MachoAuthority, was the result of their actually *having* the
authority to decide, here and now, whether or not my life would
instantly become a living hell.

  The Secret Service Agents were also extremely intelligent, not
even blinking before passing on my offer to testify against myself,
in return for immunity from prosecution.
 (When I made the same offer to RCMP OffalSlurs, they had to 
  contact their superiors, who held a meeting with OffalSchills
  behind the closed doors of the Canadian Justice Apartment,
  before finally declining my offer.)

  I was able to relax and be cooperative in dealing with the 
Agents, since, when your fate is in the hands of someone with
GenuineAuthority, whether their intentions are GoodOrEvil (TM)
is not nearly as important as to whether or not they happen to
be StupidFucks (TM) who can ruin your life over something as
simple as misunderstanding your request that they make their
questions more 'lucid.'
 ("That's it, you sick, fucking pervert! Jim, get the kilo of
  heroin out of the trunk...")

Wrong Question #29 When Dealing With StupidFucks:
  "Excuse me, but do your employers *know* that you carry a gun?
I mean, have they ever met you, or were you hired by mail? Can
you actually shoot a gun without moving your lips?"

  Although the Secret Service Agents were in possession of an
email I had sent a few minutes or hours previously, from Pima
College -->  (who I immediately tried to Rat
Out as the leader of a ChildSexRingDedicatedToTheViolentOver
ThrowOfTheUSGovernment, in order to save my own skin), the
agents seemed much more interested in a chapter of SAHMD!!!
which contains notification of an OfficialDeathThreat to pretty
much DoGodAndEverybodyOnTheFaceOfTheEarth.
  I tried to placate them by reaching over with a pen and adding
an 'Un' in front of the word 'Official,' but they were not really
impressed, informing me that the point they were trying to make
had to do with it being unacceptable, from their point of view,
for me to use the words 'Death,' 'Threat,' and 'President' all
in the same paragraph, let alone all in the same sentence.
{"Well, excuuusssee *me*!"}
  Realizing that it was probably not an opportune moment to try to
hit them up for a donation toward the maintenance of my planned
PresidentialDeathThreatAnonymousRemailer, I casually turned the
donation jar so that they couldn't see the label, and I set it
down.

  Actually, I couldn't be certain that I had actually written the
chapter, or portion thereof, with which the agents seemed most
concerned, since I find it difficult to distinguish between the
work that is mine alone, and the work that is a collage of various
participants in the writing and dissemination of 'The True Story
of the InterNet' manuscripts, if I don't have access to the files
on the computer on which they were created and stored.
  Nonetheless, I refrained from pointing out that the phrase that
indicates that the writer "might" conceivably "whack" someone or
another GovernmentPersonage, might equally apply to the stance
taken by the Secret Service Agents, themselves, if the Founding
Fathers were to be believed when they indicated that it is the
right and the duty of the citizenry to take up arms against their
rulers, if need be, in the interest of Democracy, Freedom, Justice,
or in DivineRetribution against the High&Mighty if they take a drink
out of your beer while you're in the restroom, having a leak.
 (I'm not certain about that last example, but I have no doubt that
  the Founding Fathers *meant* to include that...)

  I refrained from attempting to engage the Agents in philosophical
debate in regard to some of the finer points surrounding the issues
of Freedom of Speech, since the purpose of their visit was obviously
geared toward impressing upon me the duties encompassed by their job
description, their professional competence in doing their job, and
the fact that the necessity of making a return visit would very
likely be an indication that Uncle Sam was about to become my new
landlord.
  To tell the truth, I was in a pretty scattered state of mind at
the time of their visit, and I undoubtedly failed to adequately
understand a good portion of the dialogue which took place, but
they were very clear in explaining that, given my current state
of unwelcomeness in Canada, I am running out of countries to go
to, and that I should give serious consideration as to whether or
not I wanted my next Literary Spamology to be titled, "Midnight 
Express II."
  Hhhmmm...decisions, decisions...

  Since my reading of the Secret Service Agents is that they are
highly ethical professionals, with little need to persecute an
individual out of thin-skinned, personal vindictiveness, I guess
it wouldn't hurt to mention that, minutes after their departure,
Linda Lou arrived home, announcing that there was yet another
Tarantula in the driveway, headed toward the house...

  The obvious conclusion, of course, is that the Secret Service
Agents are actually Reptilian Nazis, who are deeply involved in
the WorldWidePlotAgainstMe.
  This, in turn, leads to the dilemma of whether or not I should,
on the occasion of a return visit, jump them and drive wooden stakes
through their hearts, turning them into quivering pools of smoking,
green slime. 
 (Or is that Vampires? Shit! I'd better check, first, or it could
  lead to a really embarassing situation.)

  On the other hand, since they were quite civil and reasonable
in their dealings with me, and they apparently didn't eat any of
the dogs, while here (although it might have been a different
story, if we had poodles), then perhaps their is a chance that
we and the Reptilian Nazis can live together in peace...unless it
is a SneakyTrick (TM), of course...and they are trying to *confuse*
me, so that I don't warn TheOthers...and they were only so pleasant
because they were inwardly laughing at me for not realizing that,
starting tomorrow, they are going to take control of the whole face
of the globe, turning all humans into LobotomizedSlaves who exist
only to serve their ReptilianNaziMasters!

QUICK, EVERYBODY! ARM YOURSELVES AND RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!!
PREPARE TO ENGAGE THE REPTILIAN NAZIS IN VIOLENT, BLOODY STRUGGLE!
START BY WHACKING OUT THE LAWYERS, AND THEN...

  Hold it! What the fuck am I ranting on about?
  The Masses are *already* LobotomizedSlaves who exist only to serve
their ReptilianNaziMasters...

  Maybe the agents were just here to see whether or not Baby is a
poodle.
  That makes more sense, since the Reptilian Nazis don't really 
give a FatRat'sAss about the Jews, but they *do* want to round up
all of the poodles shortly before the arrival of their Reptilian
Nazi Relatives, so that there is plenty of barbeque at their
PicnicToCelebrateTheConquestOfEarth.
  Yeah, that's gotta be it...

  Actually, I'm rather glad that the Secret Service Agents dropped
around to meet me in person, since people reading my copious literary
effluvia sometimes mistakenly get the impression that I am some kind
of Dogamned Weirdo, or something.
  Still, I wish I had been able to refrain from going, "Cuckoo-Cuckoo"
on the hour and the half-hour during their vist.
  But, what the hell...I bet that a *lot* of the people they visit
do that...
======================================================================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 20:19:16 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Toto `PLP' a key?
Message-ID: <199809100105.CAA07777@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Then there is this `key', which appears to be fabricated, though the
armor checksum checks if you modify it as follows....

-----BEGIN PLP PRIVATE KEY-----
Version: Pretty Lousy Privacy v6.66
Comments: No Comment
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=zXsO
-----END PLP PRIVATE KEY-----

(Posted in message Subject: Re: EFF $10,000,0000 Challenge, Date: 6
Sep 97).

Now, change the ----- lines to the correct, and the first 5 chars are
the same on PGP public key blocks 'mQENAz' (though this claims to be a
SECRET KEY BLOCK)

-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
Version: Pretty Lousy Privacy v6.66
Comments: No Comment
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=zXsO
-----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----

and the armor checksum checks, and pgp5 reports (the garbled):

Adding keys:

Key ring: 'p1.asc'
Type Bits KeyID    Created    Expires    Algorithm       Use
pub  37916 00000000 2002-08-13 2079-10-29 (null)                         
uid  *** This key is unnamed ***

1 matching key found

which looks to be garbage; perhaps it is is just garbage with a valid
public key checksum?  This seems like it would require writing some
software to acheive?  The probability of a random checksum success on
a garbled file, as the armor checksum is a 24 bit checksum is
1/2^24... quite unlikely.

Ideas?

Adam




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 12:38:05 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: PEDIATRIC ADVISE -  FREE WEBSITE
In-Reply-To: <199809090432.AAA17439@evision.nac.net>
Message-ID: <646ff1bc59610ed0600775274c0a4885@anonymous>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Wed, 09 Sep 1998 00:34:04 PDT  Jen@evision.nac.net wrote:

>If you are a parent you owe it to yourself to visit this site. It is the
>greatest relief site for all parents. Dr. Paula is the most non
>judgemental pediatrician I have ever heard of and her site is incredible.
>Every parent question gets answered usualy within a day. 

Dear Dr. Paula
I wonder if you could help me with my problem child.  He is such a sweet
lad really but he does seem to hang out with the wrong crowd.  Only the
other day I caught him reading Toaderpunks whilst laughing maniacly.  Is
there anything I can do?  I have tried the normal things, like getting him
an AOL account, but it isn't working!

I haven't been able to tell a soul about this, but since you claim not to
judge, I thought you'd understand.  Those damn Toaderpunks!  If you ask me
they should all be shot.  I wasn't prying, but I read some of my sons e-mail
the other day.  That's when I found out about the Toaderpunks.  They are all
so rude.  Why, I read one post from a nice AOL guy, asking about some stickers
for his favorite "Rock 'n' Roll" band and they weren't helpful at all!  In
fact, they were down right rude!  Oh and the language they use!  It's all
f*** this and f*** that -- if only their Mothers could hear them.

I was trying to help my son by stopping his subscription to
Toaderpunks, so I sent a message to the command address.  Since this may be
useful to you, I'll tell you what to do (there must be millions of poor kids
in the Toaderpunks trap)

send an electronic message to: cypherpunks@toad.com
and in the body write

GET ME OFF

Whilst this didn't end my sons Toaderpunk subscription, a very well hung
young man named Tim May visited me and "got me off" in the most spectacular
way.  Gosh, I'm getting wet just thinking about that boy!  Anyway Doctor,
I am sure you understand about those kind of things and I am getting a little
off my original question.  As I said, I am sure that information will help
you help a lot of others.

What do I do about my son?



Thanks in advance.


Missy





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Brown, R Ken" 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 04:12:27 +0800
To: nobody@nowhere.to>
Subject: RE: PEDIATRIC ADVISE -  FREE WEBSITE
Message-ID: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F840A@MSX11002>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> Oh and the language they use!  It's all
> f*** this and f*** that -- if only their Mothers could hear them.

Who's to say they can't?  Mothers can read mailing lists too you know
:-)

Ken 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 08:26:30 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Netly News article on Toto/Johnson PART II
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




 http://cgi.pathfinder.com/netly/0,2326,201980910-14595,00.html








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 08:00:28 +0800
To: lb@qainfo.se
Subject: Official comment
Message-ID: <35F7C9BB.7B5E@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

http://csrc.nist.gov/encryption/aes/aes_home.htm#comments

  OFFICIAL Comments - Anyone may provide NIST with OFFICIAL public    
comments on the AES candidate algorithms. NOTE  THAT ALL COMMENTS  
RECEIVED SHALL BE MADE PART OF THE PUBLIC RECORD. A comment may be    
submitted by sending an e-mail message to AESFirstRound@nist.gov. 

OFFICIAL Comment

http://www.aci.net/kalliste/bw1.htm

to appear at http://zolatimes.com/

Title: Black and White Test of Cryptographic Algorithms





Black and White Test of Cryptographic Algorithms
by William H. Payne




  The purpose of this article is to explain the underlying principles
  of cryptography by examples, and to show some criteria that should be
  met by cryptographic algorithms before they are seriously considered
  for adoption.



Cryptography is the art or science of scrambling plaintext into ciphertext with a key
so that it cannot be read by anyone who does not possess the key.

Digital information is stored in the form of 1s and 0s, called BINARY.

Binary Numbers

Let's count from DECIMAL 0 to 15 in BINARY by adding 1 to the previous number.




decimal:
0
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15

binary:
0
1
10
11
100
101
110
111
1000
1001
1010
1011
1100
1101
1110
1111


Notice that first we start with a single number position, which can be 0 or 1 in BINARY.  This
number position is a bit.  Call this first bit b0.
Notice that b0 is either 0 or 1.  That is, b0 = 0 or b0 = 1.

To get to DECIMAL 2, we have to introduce a second BINARY bit--call it b1.  
We have b1b0 = 10.  Next, for DECIMAL 3, we have BINARY b1b0 = 11.




binary:
0
1
10
11
100
101
110
111
1000
1001
1010
1011
1100
1101
1110
1111

numbered bits:
b0
b0
b1b0
b1b0
b2b1b0
b2b1b0
b2b1b0
b2b1b0
b3b2b1b0
b3b2b1b0
b3b2b1b0
b3b2b1b0
b3b2b1b0
b3b2b1b0
b3b2b1b0
b3b2b1b0



Notice that the bit subscript represents a power of 2.  That is, b0 really
means

b0*2^0,

where * is multiplication, and ^ exponentiation (for example, 2^0 = 1, 2^1 = 2, 2^2 = 4, 2^3 = 8).
The subscript on b is the same as the power on 2.  

If we had b26, we would know its meaning was b26*2^26.
If b26 = 0, then this value is 0.  If b26 = 1, then
this value is 2^26.

Now look at "1111" (which in BINARY is equal to DECIMAL 15).  In this
case, b3b2b1b0 = 1111.  The
right-most BIT (b0) is the least-significant bit, because
it corresponds to the lowest power of 2.

Converting Binary Numbers to Decimal Numbers

To convert a BINARY number ...b3b2b1b0 to
a DECIMAL number Y, we simply write


        Y =  b0 + b1 * 2 + b2 * 2^2 + b3 * 2^3 + ...


The bits b0, b1, b2, b3 are limited to the values 0 and 1 ONLY.

Performing the exponentiation of powers of 2 and reversing the bits gives


        Y =  . . . + b3 * 8  +  b2 * 4 + b1 * 2 +  b0 .  


Most of us were brought-up to understand that  the most significant digits are to the LEFT of the previous 
digit.

For sake of economy of writing and easy conversion, binary numbers are frequently represented
in base 16, or HEXADECIMAL, abbreviated HEX.

Hexadecimal Numbers



BinaryweightsHEXDECIMAL
8 4 2 1
      0    0  0
      1    1  1
    1 0    2  2
    1 1    3  3
  1 0 0    4  4
  1 0 1    5  5
  1 1 0    6  6
  1 1 1    7  7
1 0 0 0    8  8
1 0 0 1    9  9
1 0 1 0    A 10
1 0 1 1    B 11
1 1 0 0    C 12
1 1 0 1    D 13
1 1 1 0    E 14
1 1 1 1    F 15


Conversion from binary to hexadecimal or hexadecimal to binary is easy if you remember

1010 is A  
1100 is C  
1110 is E

B is one greater than A, 1011.   D is one greater than C, 1101.  And F is one greater than E, 1111.

Computer Memory

Computer memory is frequently organized as BYTEs which are eight bits.

Since one hexadecimal digit represents 4 bits, it takes two hexadecimal digits to represent one byte.

There are 2^8 = 256 different binary values that can be represented in
a byte.  These 256 values (written in HEX for brevity) are:



00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 0A 0B 0C 0D 0E 0F
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 1A 1B 1C 1D 1E 1F
20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 2A 2B 2C 2D 2E 2F
30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 3A 3B 3C 3D 3E 3F
40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 4A 4B 4C 4D 4E 4F
50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 5A 5B 5C 5D 5E 5F
60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 6A 6B 6C 6D 6E 6F
70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 7A 7B 7C 7D 7E 7F
80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 8A 8B 8C 8D 8E 8F
99 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 9A 9B 9C 9D 9E 9F
A0 A1 A2 A3 A4 A5 A6 A7 A8 A9 AA AB AC AD AE AF
B0 B1 B2 B3 B4 B5 B6 B7 B8 B9 BA BB BC BD BE BF
C0 C1 C2 C3 C4 C5 C6 C7 C8 C9 CA CB CC CD CE CF
D0 D1 D2 D3 D4 D5 D6 D7 D8 D9 DA DB DC DD DE DF
E0 E1 E2 E3 E4 E5 E6 E7 E8 E9 EA EB EC ED EE EF
FF F1 F2 F3 F4 F5 F6 F7 F8 F9 FA FB FC FD FE FF


Representing Language on a Computer

The problem of how to represent characters in a computer has been solved several ways.  One
way is the American Standard Code of Information Interchange (ASCII).

ASCII represents characters as 7 bits.

Here is table modified from a web site
(
http://members.tripod.com/~plangford/index.html).


 Hex Char Description             Hex Char   Hex Char   Hex Char
----------------------            --------- ---------- ----------
  00  NUL (null)                   20         40  @      60    `
  01  SOH (start of heading)       21  !      41  A      61    a    
  02  STX (start of text)          22  "      42  B      62    b    
  03  ETX (end of text)            23  #      43  C      63    c    
  04  EOT (end of transmission)    24  $      44  D      64    d    
  05  ENQ (enquiry)                25  %      45  E      65    e    
  06  ACK (acknowledge)            26  &      46  F      66    f    
  07  BEL (bell)                   27  '      47  G      67    g    
  08   BS (backspace)              28  (      48  H      68    h    
  09  TAB (horizontal tab)         29  )      49  I      69    i    
  0A   LF (line feed, new line)    2A  *      4A  J      6A    j    
  0B   VT (vertical tab)           2B  +      4B  K      6B    k    
  0C   FF (form feed, new page)    2C  ,      4C  L      6C    l    
  0D   CR (carriage return)        2D  -      4D  M      6D    m    
  0E   SO (shift out)              2E  .      4E  N      6E    n    
  0F   SI (shift in)               2F  /      4F  O      6F    o    
  10  DLE (data link escape)       30  0      50  P      70    p    
  11  DC1 (device control 1)       31  1      51  Q      71    q    
  12  DC2 (device control 2)       32  2      52  R      72    r    
  13  DC3 (device control 3)       33  3      53  S      73    s    
  14  DC4 (device control 4)       34  4      54  T      74    t    
  15  NAK (negative acknowledge)   35  5      55  U      75    u    
  16  SYN (synchronous idle)       36  6      56  V      76    v    
  17  ETB (end of trans. block)    37  7      57  W      77    w    
  18  CAN (cancel)                 38  8      58  X      78    x    
  19   EM (end of medium)          39  9      59  Y      79    y    
  1A  SUB (substitute)             3A  :      5A  Z      7A    z    
  1B  ESC (escape)                 3B  ;      5B  [      7B    {    
  1C   FS (file separator)         3C  <      5C  \      7C    |    
  1D   GS (group separator)        3D  =      5D  ]      7D    }    
  1E   RS (record separator)       3E  >      5E  ^      7E    ~    
  1F   US (unit separator)         3F  ?      5F  _      7F  DEL


Now let us take two different one-word messages we might wish to cipher: "black" and "white".  We
can use the preceding table to find the ASCII codes for the characters in "black" and "white".
                  


messagecharacterASCII (Hex)Binary
Message 1black62 6C 61 63 6B0110 0010 0110 1100 0110 0001 0110 0011 0110 1011
Message 2white77 68 69 74 650111 0111 0110 1000 0110 1001 0111 0100 0110 0101


But before doing this, we must understand the general "cipher problem."

The Cipher Problem

We have three elements in the encryption process:


        1.  The plaintext message 
        2.  The key               
        3.  The ciphertext

Let's start REAL SIMPLE.  Let's consider a situation where the plaintext
message, the key, and the ciphertext are all the same length.  To
make it even simpler, let's make each one only one bit long.  So the key
can be one of two possibilities (0 or 1), and so can the plaintext and
the ciphertext.  So, in all, there are 2*2*2 = 8 total possible encipherment
circumstances.

Let's enumerate ALL 8 POSSIBILITIES.



Possibilities Table
PossibilityKeyPlaintextCiphertext
1000
2001
3010
4011
5100
6101
7110
8111


That's it!  There are no more possibilities than these 8.  What does this
mean for the encryption process--the "algorithm"?

An ALGORITHM is a deterministic processes that accepts inputs and transforms them into outputs.

"Deterministic" is important in that the same inputs ALWAYS produce the same output.

Consider ANY algorithm which takes as its inputs the key values of 0 or 1 and the plaintext message
values of 0 or 1.

ANY algorithm can only produce one of the ciphertext outputs seen above.  Image the following
hypothetical but REAL SIMPLE algorithm:


Hypothetical Algorithm:  Find the value of the Key in column 2 of the Possibilities Table
and the Plaintext message in column 3; then chose as the Ciphertext output whatever number is found
in column 4 of that row.


But there, of course, is a catch with a valid CRYPTOGRAPHIC ALGORITHM.  

Given the Key and the Ciphertext, one must be able to get back the Plaintext!  

A  cryptographic algorithmic should have an INVERSE.

So a cryptographic algorithm could not produce ALL of the eight combinations seen above for the
reason that it is impossible to invert some of the possibilities.  For example, some of the mappings
are incompatible from an inverse standpoint, because same values of the key and ciphertext
can lead to two different values of the plaintext.  Notice how the following pairs of possibilities
conflict: 1 and 3; 2 and 4; 5 and 7; 6 and 8.



PossibilityKeyPlaintextCiphertext
1000
3010

2001
4011

5100
7110

6101
8111


But there two different cryptographic algorithms that could be made from the
Possibilities Table, both of which have inverses:



Cryptographic Algorithm 1
PossibilityKeyPlaintextCiphertext
1000
4011
6101
7110




Cryptographic Algorithm 2
PossibilityKeyPlaintextCiphertext
2001
3010
5100
8111



Of course, the output of Algorithm 2 is merely the same as the output of Algorithm 1,
with 0s and 1s switched.  (This is called a logical NOT operation.)

Logic and Its Electronic Representation

Logic,  sometimes called

Boolean logic when it is dealing with 0s and 1s, has several elementary rules.  

In computers, TRUE is usually represented by a 1.  FALSE is represented by a 0.

Electrically a 1 is usually, but not always, represented by a HIGH VOLTAGE.  A zero by a 
LOW VOLTAGE.

The three basic operations in logic are NOT, AND, and OR:



Logical OperationInput(s)Output
NOT0 1
   1 0
      
AND000
   010
   100
   111
      
OR 000
   011
   101
   111


A derivative operation called an EXCLUSIVE-OR, abbreviated XOR, is defined as follows:



Logical OperationInput(s)Output
XOR000
   011
   101
   110


In XOR, if the two input bits have the the same value, they sum to 0.  If they have
different values, they sum to 1.

Now look back at Cryptographic Algorithm 1.  It is, in fact,
the exclusive-or (XOR) of the key and plaintext.


Algorithm 1: Ciphertext Output = Key XOR Plaintext.


Cryptographic Algorithm 2, meanwhile, is just the NOT of Algorithm 1.


Algorithm 2: Ciphertext Output = NOT (Key XOR Plaintext).


The REALLY IMPORTANT property of the XOR is THAT IT HAS AN INVERSE.

By contrast, logical AND does not have an inverse for the reason that if the
Key and (Key AND Plaintext) are both 0, then the Plaintext itself is ambiguously
either 0 or 1.



Logical OperationKey InputPlaintext InputKey AND Plaintext 
AND000oops
   010oops
   100 
   111 


Likewise, logical OR does not have an inverse for the reason that if the
Key and (Key OR Plaintext) are both 1, then the Plaintext itself is ambiguously
either 0 or 1.



Logical OperationKey InputPlaintext InputKey OR Plaintext 
OR 000 
   011 
   101oops
   111oops


So logical AND and OR don't work well for a crypto algorithm, but the XOR does because it has 
an inverse.

How to Create Two Keys for Deniability

The XOR works even better from a legal standpoint.  Imagine the following
conversation:


        Ciphercop:  We have the ciphertext 0 and we CAUGHT you with the key with a bit value of 1, so you sent a plaintext 1.
        Citizen:  No I did not!  You PLANTED the key with bit value 1. The real key bit is a 0, and I sent 0 as the plaintext.


Let's generate a key for the REAL WORLD crypto messages "black" and "white",
                  


messagecharacterASCII (Hex)Binary
Message 1black62 6C 61 63 6B0110 0010 0110 1100 0110 0001 0110 0011 0110 1011
Message 2white77 68 69 74 650111 0111 0110 1000 0110 1001 0111 0100 0110 0101


and see if we can produce a REAL EXAMPLE of a SECOND KEY.

Here's a key, which we will call key 1:


key 1: 1010 0101   1100 0011   1110 0111   1111 0000   0110 1001


Key 1 doesn't look too random.  Each group of four bits is followed by its
logical NOT (e.g. NOT(1010) = 0101, etc.).  Which leads to another lesson.


        To claim that a sequence of 0s and 1s is random requires statistical testing.
	Otherwise, the state of the sequence is UNKNOWN.
       

Here's another key, which we will call key 2:


key 2: 1011 0000    1100 0100   1110 1111   1110 0111   0110 0111


These two keys produce the same ciphertext for the two different
messages "black" and "white".



black0110 0010    0110 1100   0110 0001   0110 0011   0110 1011
key 11010 0101    1100 0011   1110 0111   1111 0000   0110 1001
ciphertext (XOR)1100 0111    1010 1100   1000 0110   1001 0011   0000 0010




white0111 0111    0110 1000   0110 1001   0111 0100   0110 0101
key 21011 0000    1100 0100   1110 1111   1110 0111   0110 0111
ciphertext (XOR)1100 0111    1010 1100   1000 0110   1001 0011   0000 0010


So when the ciphercops FALSELY accuse you of encrypting "black", you SCREAM
"Bull pucky!", and produce key 2 to show that you, IN FACT, encrypted "white".
Then sue the government--pro se, of course. (See http://jya.com/whpfiles.htm.)

The recipe for producing the second key in this example is simple.  Take two plaintext messages of the
same length.  Encrypt one of them with an arbitrary key that yields a ciphertext of the
same length.  XOR the ciphertext with the second plaintext message.  The result is the
second key.  Store this one for plausible deniability.

So from the standpoint of plausible deniability it is BEST to have TWO KEYS
for any given encryption:


        1. The REAL KEY  
        2. The key you can CLAIM was the REAL KEY.  Just in case you get caught.




"Have we gone beyond the bounds of reasonable dishonesty?"
                --CIA memo
                
          
(The CIA quote is from 
Weird History 101, by  John Richard Stephens, page 55.)

None of us want to get caught going beyond the bounds of reasonable dishonesty.

Thus far two criteria of a worth candidate for cryptographic algorithm have been established.



Criterion 1: The ciphertext is invertible with the help of a key back into the plaintext.
Criterion 2: There is ALWAYS a second key.  Just in case you get caught.


Plaintext and Ciphertext Sizes

The plaintext and ciphertext should be the same size.

First, note that if the plaintext is longer than the ciphertext, then the
ciphertext is not invertible.  For example, let's suppose that the plaintext
is two bits long and the ciphertext is one bit long.



PlaintextCiphertext
0 00 or 1
0 11 or 0
1 0oops
1 1oops


After the first two ciphertext bits have been assigned to plaintext pairs,
the next two plaintext pairs (10,11) must conflict with this assignment. The
ciphertext thus correspondents to more than one plaintext possibility.

We run into problems for the reason that we cannot establish a one-to-one
correspondence between the plaintext and cipher text and, therefore, can't
possibly have an inverse.

Second, if the plaintext is shorter than the ciphertext, then the
ciphertext can't be trusted.  It may include too much information.  For
example, let's suppose that the plaintext is one bit long, the key is one
bit long, and the cipher text is two bits long.



Iran Cryptographic Algorithm
KeyPlaintextCiphertext
0  0        00        
0  1        10        
1  0        11        
1  1        01        


Not only is the above algorithm invertible, but now the crypto key has been sent
along with the ciphertext in the second bit position!

That is, the first bit in the ciphertext is is the value of (key XOR plaintext).
The second bit is the key itself.  So if you XOR the two ciphertext bits
with each other, you recover the plaintext bit.

You might ask who would be audacious enough to pull such  stunt.  The Great Satan,
of course.

For the story of how the National Security Agency (NSA) bugged the encryption
equipment that was sold by a Swiss company to 140 nations around the world, see
the following links:


http://www.aci.net/kalliste/speccoll.htm 


http://caq.com/cryptogate 


http://www.qainfo.se/~lb/crypto_ag.htm 


http://jya.com/whpfiles.htm



And the Great Satan got caught.  No plan B.  Or in crypto parlance, no second key.

So we have a third criterion for a cryptographic algorithm we might wish to adopt.



Criterion 3:  The length of the plaintext equals the length of the ciphertext.


In simple terms, if more bits come out of a crypto algorithm than go in, WATCH OUT!

Otis Mukinfuss and the Advanced Encryption Standard

Bruce Hawkinson (BHAWKIN@sandia.gov)
WAS Sandia National Laboratories Lab News editor some years ago.

In one editorial, Hawkinson wrote that while we was traveling for Sandia, he
spent his motel time looking up strange names in the phone book.  One name
I recall mentioned was Steely Gray who was a government office furniture
salesman.

Hawkinson concluded his article by writing his all-time favorite name was
Otis Mukinfuss.

Hawkinson was no longer editor of Sandia's Lab News shortly thereafter.

J. Orlin Grabbe has done an excellent job writing about cryptographic algorithms in

Cryptography and Number Theory for Digital Cash.

One inescapable conclusion from Grabbe's internet article is that from a layman's
standpoint public key cryptography is an incomprehensible mess.  A Muckinfuss.

The National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) is holding a CONTEST to select
an Advanced Encryption Standard to replace the
current Data Encryption Standard (DES).

Click through the candidates to view some additional examples of Mukinfusses.

So another criterion has been established for a cryptographic algorithm to be considered
for adoption.



Criterion 4:  The crypto algorithm must be simple and CONVINCE  EVERYONE that it is
             ONLY PERFORMING ITS SIMPLE INTENDED FUNCTION.


While we are at the NIST web site, the NIST Advanced Encryption Standard contest reminds
me of a the plot of a recent movie, The Game, starring Michael Douglas and Sean Penn:


        The film is a thriller directed by David Fincher (Se7en). "The Game"
        is what begins when a high-powered businessman named Nicholas Van 
        Orton (Douglas) receives the birthday gift of a lifetime from his 
        brother he alienated years ago (Penn). What Nicholas gets is entry 
        into a mysterious new form of entertainment provided by C.R.S. 
        (Consumer Recreational Services) simply called "The Game." It 
        proves to be an all-consuming contest with only one rule: there are 
        no rules. By the time Van Orton realizes he is in, it is too late to get 
        out.  ...
        (See 
                http://www.movietunes.com/soundtracks/1997/game/.)



NIST does not appear to publish any criteria for winning the AES contest!
Look at 
http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/confpage/980820.htm and decide for
yourself.

Perfect Cryptography

Here we have described a process of encrypting a plaintext by XORing it
with a key of the same length.  This encryption technique is called a
"one-time pad", or Vernam cipher.  Just as long as each key is only used once,
the encryption technique is perfectly secure.

The one-time pad described here satisfies all criteria mentioned so far:


1. The ciphertext is invertible with the help of a key back into the plaintext.
2. There is ALWAYS a second key.  Just in case you get caught. 
3. The length of the plaintext equals the length of the ciphertext. 
4. The crypto algorithm must be simple and CONVINCE EVERYONE that it is 
    ONLY PERFORMING ITS SIMPLE INTENDED FUNCTION.


I  add



Criterion 5:  The length of the key must equal the length of the plaintext.


Extensive mathematics or complication fails Criterion 4.

Public key cryptograpy that uses the RSA algorithm MAY fail Criterion 1 if the 
message divides the product of the two prime numbers, p and q, used in the modulus.

Most crypto algorithms are designed so that the key cannot be recovered from a
plaintext-ciphertext pair.  Therefore, they fail Criterion 2.

Criterion 3 is much more difficult to ensure against.

Black and White Hats

American western movie producers used to aid their audiences in identification
of the heroes and villains.  The heroes wore white hats.  The villains, black hats.

US government agencies adopted the term 'black hatter' to describe an employee whose
job it is to break into THINGS. Or screw them up:
http://www.jya.com/whp1.htm

A 'white hatter' is one who analyzes THINGS to make sure they cannot be broken into.
And they can't be screwed up.

But the empirical fact is that the 'black hatters' can figure-out methods to transmit
the key on a covert channel, tell the 'white hatters' they did this.  And the 'white
hatters' can't find out how they did it.
                 
Algorithmic Processes

Suppose the key is five bits:

 1 0 1 0 1

Suppose the plaintext is six bits:

1 1 1 1 1 1

And the ciphertext is also six bits:

1 0 1 1 0 1

Ask the cryptographer give you a key which changes ONLY the sixth bit of the
ciphertext, as in the following:

1 0 1 1 0 0

You like the other 5 bits just fine.

If the cryptographer can't, then you might look for another algorithm to adopt.

Conclusion

We have five criteria to judge the outcome of the NIST Advanced Encryption Standard contest.

If none of the algorithms pass the five tests, we will not be discouraged.

We know that Gilbert S. Vernam and Joseph O. Mauborgne  solved the crytptography problem in 1918,
when they created the one-time pad.  (See

"What is a One-Time Pad?".)


William H. Payne               
P.O. Box 14838                 
Albuquerque, New Mexico 87191  
505-292-7037                   

Embedded Controller Forth. 

Generalized Feedback Shift Registers           

Here are some links to some of my students:

     
Ted Lewis (Friction-Free Economy)      
     
John Sobolewski (HPCERC)      

-30-





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Soren 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 05:53:39 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Packet Radio
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980909005149.0081d100@mail.xroads.com>
Message-ID: <35F7B0DA.CBD0CC07@workmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



What about SSB?

User of DOOM wrote:

> >>>>> William J Hartwell  writes:
>
>   > I think a radio network linked to the Amateur networks sending
>   > secure packets, using tunneling or maybe just encrypted traffic
>
> FCC regulations prohibit amateur radio services from carrying either
> encrypted OR commercial traffic.  Either of these restrictions makes
> amateur radio networks useless for CP purposes.  And hams are very
> diligent at self-enforcement, often devoting hundreds of man-hours to
> track down a single unlicenced operator.
>
> Anyone who wishes to establish a network that may -- at any point in
> its life -- have to operate outside the "law" (whatever THAT happens
> to be at the time) will be well advised to steer clear of the amateur
> radio community.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Raymond D. Mereniuk" 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 10:29:15 +0800
To: "Kevin J. Stephenson" 
Subject: Re: Spot The Fed
In-Reply-To: <199809100428.VAA17926@leroy.fbn.bc.ca>
Message-ID: <199809101544.IAA18377@leroy.fbn.bc.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



"Kevin J. Stephenson"  wrote

> A lot of companies that get Net access never setup the reverse DNS entries
> out of sheer laziness on their assigned class C, and their upstream
> provider doesn't care. Feds probably have Class A and B addresses anyways.

Traceroute doesn't use DNS, it doesn't need to as it already has the 
IP numbers.  DNS is a system which provides IP numbers when you 
give it a domain name.  Reverse DNS provides a host name to an IP 
address but Traceroute doesn't use it.

Traceroute works at the router level.  Traceroute is like Ping but 
provides information on every hop including IP number and 
assigned device name.  With Traceroute if a host name is not 
received, when requested of course, it is because the equipment 
was not assigned a host name or it is deliberately suppressed.  I 
don't use Traceroute a lot but this is the first time I have seen host 
names suppressed.  

A lot of routers have ICM suppressed and will not provide a device 
name.  If an end user site wants to provide better security they will 
turn off ICM packets.  At that point Traceroute doesn't work at all.




Virtually

Raymond D. Mereniuk
Raymond@fbn.bc.ca




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mixmaster 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 10:55:55 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: radio net (fwd)
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



"Brian W. Buchanan"  writes:

>I'd love to see them try to enforce that.  What about chaffing and
>winnowing?  Stego?  Transmission of random noise? ;)  Anyone have the text
>of the actual rules concerning this?

I found what you're looking for.  I failed in my search at the FCC and ARRL web-sites, except for offers to purchase the applicable regulations in hardcopy.

C.F.R. 47, Part 97 covers the Amateur Radio Service.  The full set of regs is available at:

http://www.mv.com/ipusers/simons/al/radio/part97.html

The specific regulation you're looking for is at: 

http://www.mv.com/ipusers/simons/al/radio/part97_b.html#97.113

S 97.113 Prohibited transmissions. 

(a) No amateur station shall transmit: 

...
        (4) Music using a phone emission except as specifically

            provided elsewhere in this Section; communications

            intended to facilitate a criminal act; messages in
                                                   ^^^^^^^^^^^
            codes or ciphers intended to obscure the meaning
            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
            thereof, except as otherwise provided herein;
            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
            obscene or indecent words or language; or false

            or deceptive messages, signals or identification; 

...

The exception clause probably makes reference to an allowed "code", that being morse code.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 08:11:43 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: CJ Key Check
Message-ID: <199809101303.JAA31885@camel8.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Bear in mind that that information on this matter may be used to 
hammer or help Carl Johnson if not others.

As Adam Back has proposed: 

To check the validity of the allegations made by the IRS about 
Toto(s)'s messages in the Carl Johnson complaint, a review 
is underway of archived messages to see if there are any signatures 
by a key before the private key has been posted, especially if 
the post in question has been (or may be later) cited by the IRS.  

If there are none, then the IRS "authentication" of the claimed 
Toto posts evaporates.  Even if there are some, the `authentication' 
becomes more suspect if there are others which are made after the 
key post.

To assist checking messages an initial list of candidate keys is 
available (none of the anonymous keys show a link to Carl Johnson
of the IRS complaint):

   http://jya.com/anon-keys.htm

Additional candidates and findings of message checks are welcomed,
with a nod to the opening caution.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 11:20:58 +0800
To: Matthew James Gering 
Subject: Re: radio net (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A19284623@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
Message-ID: <35F7FCC0.30D4@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Matthew James Gering wrote:
> 
> Isn't there a similar ban on encryption-capable telephones and other
> electronic devices (other than computers).
> 
Not that I've ever heard of. Besides, what's the difference between a
crypto telephone and a computer? None that is significant.

>         Matt

I suspect that the reason that there aren't any $99 cryptophones at
Wal-Mart is that there really is not a significant market. The average
person just doesn't care. And the consumer electronics business is so
competitive and cost-sensitive that adding cost as a matter of principle
is just not going to happen. Oh, I suppose it's possible that anyone
trying to introduce a product like this could run into LEA interference
- endless audits, supplier problems, FCC approvals, you name it but lack
of market is probably the simplest explanation.

Mike




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Raymond D. Mereniuk" 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 11:35:00 +0800
To: Ray Arachelian 
Subject: Re: oil, greens, recycling, and poly-ticks.
In-Reply-To: <35F7F329.E4836699@brainlink.com>
Message-ID: <199809101649.JAA18487@leroy.fbn.bc.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Ray Arachelian  wrote

> Just out of curiosity what are prices around where you guys live?

In the Vancouver BC area they are trying to raise the price and the 
new standard is CAN$0.549 per litre, or US$1.37 per US gallon.  
Not difficult to find CAN$0.454/l or US$1.14/g.  For the last few 
weeks you could find CAN$0.399/l or US$1.00/g.  I often go to 
Blaine WA and the lowest available there is US$1.059.  Gas in 
Seattle WA is at least US$1.199.

> Ditto for militant vegans... it's one thing to do it for health reasons, it's
> another to be an asshole about killing fuzzy animals.. hey veggies are alive
> too.  If you're gonna murder veggies to live, (whose growth results in the
> death of millions of insects who would devour the veggies if not for
> insecticides) you may as well quit being a hypocrite and murder animals too...
> 
> The only way for a consciencious objecting vegan to not be a hypocrite is to
> simply stop eating and drinking and breathing... after all, every time he does
> so, he inhales, ingests, or otherwise murders billions of microbes... :)

Have you ever tried using this argument on a Vegetarian?  I have 
and they squirm in all directions attempting to rationalize their 
irrational position.  Basically some living things are more living than 
others.  Sort of reminds you of some politicians where it is obvious 
from their actions that some people are more equal than other 
people.





Virtually

Raymond D. Mereniuk
Raymond@fbn.bc.ca




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: EpicTeU@aol.com
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 08:41:57 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Forwarded mail....
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



In a message dated 98-09-10 01:11:05 EDT, you write:

<< Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 19:27:05 -0700 (PDT)
 From: Jrjeffro@aol.com
 
 HaCkaZ OnlY Da EliTeHelLO YaLL DiS is Da MaDD AAOOLL HaCka Ima startin a
GreWp fOR HaCs Only So In OthA WerDS yA gOttA KnOw The WAreZ anD HoW toO UsEr
FaTe AnD AOL So MaIl Or Im Me FoR Da TeTaIls If YeR LeeTo K Pe@CE FrOmE The
LeeTs HacKJeFFrO) >>

What the hell is this? 
No wonder why AOLers have a bad name Im going to Flame this guy 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 11:38:31 +0800
To: "Raymond D. Mereniuk" 
Subject: oil, Re: Citizenship silliness.  Re: e$: crypto-expatriatism (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199809082359.SAA12044@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <35F8010C.35E5@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Raymond D. Mereniuk wrote:
> > oil, the arabs will slip back into obscurity.
> 
Can't wait.

> Good point!  Ever wonder why a decreasing commodity non-
> renewable resource is becoming cheaper as the known reserves
> become smaller?
> 
> Maybe they want to sell it all before it becomes obsolete and
> maximize their income from that resource.
> 
> Within the oil business I have heard this mentioned in regards to
> natural gas.
> 
I remember going to hear a Cornell geophysicist speak on this subject
about 17 years ago. The gist of his talk was that the porosity of the
mantle material had some unexpected variation vs. depth. This, along
with the nature of the natural gas fields in Louisiana and the content
profile of some oil reserves indicated a large amount of natural gas
reserves as part of the deeper structure. I don't know where this ever
went but it was pretty interesting at the time.

Mike




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 11:51:25 +0800
To: Bill Stewart 
Subject: Re: Computer hard disc scanning by HM Customs & Excise
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980909143613.00c51da0@idiom.com>
Message-ID: <35F80407.5303@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Bill Stewart wrote:
> 
> >> > Just set the BIOS not to boot to floppy,
> >> If the customs people have any clue, the first thing they do
> >> is hit DEL at the appropriate BIOS prompt
> >I think you give them WAY too much credit, not to mention many systems
> >give no such prompt. But highly suspect if anything they will check the
> >BIOS *after* first not being able to boot to floppy successfully.
> 
> Any tax-collector who's illiterate enough to ask "Do you have Internet
> on your computer" is probably not going to know what's happening,
> especially given the disparity of system boot behaviour.
> 
> Some things may get their attention, like the sound card yelling
>         "Begin destruct sequence!  10, 9, 8, 7....."
> or, more politely,
>         "Stop, thief!  Help, someone is stealing this computer!"
> or      "Virus detected.  Please remove the infected diskette
>         and contact corporate security for further instructions"
> but your basic subtleties like a Linux boot screen and
> copying the diskette to backup and then wiping it are
> beyond the typical border guard's technical training, and
> don't smell interesting enough to get his dog's attention
> (unless there's a good high-pitched tone as well.)
> 
> I may post a more thoughtful article about the offensiveness of this
> practice or the technical cluelessness, but for now I'll just
> rant about the sheer folly of allowing anybody to touch your computer
> whose primary training is in Shouting and looking for people who
> match profiles, like Irish accents or obvious wealth or obvious poverty.
> 
The practice is as offensive as the KGB-like DWI roadblocks but don't be
so hasty to assume the long-term incompetence of the federales in any
country. If the interest in scanning PC's persists, or *dammit*
increases, there will be increased funding and somebody who is
technically capable will provide more sophisticated analysis tools.
Period. Better get used to it. I doubt the issue will just go away.
Design your CM accordingly.

Mike




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Julian Assange 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 05:10:42 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: cypherpunks archive
Message-ID: <19980910100541.10897.qmail@iq.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




I'm looking for a/the cypherpunks archive, particularly one that
covers 92-present. infinity.nus.sg doesn't seem to work anymore.

Cheers,
Julian.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Steve Mynott 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 04:24:48 +0800
To: Adam Back 
Message-ID: <19980910102249.B27659@tightrope.demon.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Wed, Sep 09, 1998 at 10:25:15PM +0100, Adam Back wrote:

> Well let's see how many Toto keys we can find which were posted to
> cpunks.

Type Bits KeyID      Created    Expires    Algorithm       Use
pub  2048 0xE839FC79 1997-05-21 ---------- RSA             Sign & Encrypt 
uid  TruthMonger 

-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0i for non-commercial use
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=fA4n
-----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----

-- 
pgp 1024/D9C69DF9 1997/10/14 steve mynott 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ray Arachelian 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 10:21:42 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Archives and such - I can host these...
Message-ID: <35F7EE0B.C3E97955@brainlink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



If the folks that run or ran archives need a mirror site to host their mirrors,
I can happily provide space for them on sundernet.  I've plenty of space on the
drive, and if not I can get more spindles for it...

If you have already written perl scripts to archive incoming mail I'd put those
up too... 

-- 

=====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos==============
.+.^.+.|  Ray Arachelian    |Prying open my 3rd eye.  So good to see |./|\.
..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were      |/\|/\
<--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run  |\/|\/
../|\..| "A toast to Odin,  |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/.
.+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were....            |.....
======================= http://www.sundernet.com ==========================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mok-Kong Shen 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 04:32:16 +0800
To: Nobuki Nakatuji 
Subject: Re: MISTY encryption algorithm source code
In-Reply-To: <19980910035745.18097.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <35F79AEE.1F8CAB7@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Nobuki Nakatuji wrote:
> 
> MISTY source code posted by me at long ago had many mistake.
> Attachment file are revised MISTY source code and revised readme.
> Thanks.

Can you give good literature references to MISTY?

M. K. Shen




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ray Arachelian 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 10:44:47 +0800
To: raymond@fbn.bc.ca
Subject: Re: oil, greens, recycling, and poly-ticks.
In-Reply-To: <199809092123.OAA17355@leroy.fbn.bc.ca>
Message-ID: <35F7F329.E4836699@brainlink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Raymond D. Mereniuk wrote:

> Now we have cheap oil.  Big powerful vehicles are back and we are
> not embarrassed to consume energy any more.  I have no idea
> where society is heading but I do like have a more powerful vehicle
> which capable of passing a vehicle already doing 65 MPH.

What pisses me off is that in NYC the gas prices are ridiculous high...
$1.35/Gal is the regular gas, drive just a few miles over a tunnel or bridge 
to n NJ, it's $1.00 or $.99 depending on which pump you hit...  go a bit south,
say VA, and in some areas it drops as low as $0.87 a gallon!

Shit, if it weren't for the tolls and the drive, I'd be getting my gas out of
NYC all the time, but doing so wastes enough and costs enough in tolls to not
make it worth the effort...

Just out of curiosity what are prices around where you guys live?
 
> The whole Greens or tree-hugger thing is a bit hypocritical.  Ask
> them if they have electrical appliances in their home and the answer
> is always yes.  For a number of years the Greenpeace fundraisers
> would show up at the door asking for money to battle the forest
> industry and the evil pulp mills which used chlorine in their bleaching
> process and they would have white paper in their clipboards.

Yep... saw one at Barnes & Noble a while ago bitching about how he got a
plastic bag.  We'll, if he's worried that plastic is bad for the environment,
he should worry about the murdered tree in his hand that he just purchased...

Ditto for militant vegans... it's one thing to do it for health reasons, it's
another to be an asshole about killing fuzzy animals.. hey veggies are alive
too.  If you're gonna murder veggies to live, (whose growth results in the
death of millions of insects who would devour the veggies if not for
insecticides) you may as well quit being a hypocrite and murder animals too...

The only way for a consciencious objecting vegan to not be a hypocrite is to
simply stop eating and drinking and breathing... after all, every time he does
so, he inhales, ingests, or otherwise murders billions of microbes... :)

(Whenever someone asks if I have special dietary needs, I say "I'm a carnivore,
make sure you've got plenty of red meat!") :)

By far the worst is the recycling law in NYC.  If you don't recycle your trash,
you get fined.  If a homeless bum sticks his hand in a recycling bin and grabs
a paper he gets arrested for theft of government property, etc...  If someone
throws a can of soda in your trash bins infront of your house, you pay a $50
fine...  A while back some may remeber the "Toilet Escrow" thread... yep that
too has hit New York.  Every toilet in our apt building was exchanged for one
that supposedly saves water... Whatever the political and economic kickbacks
were, it now takes an average of three flushes to sink a bowlful of turds... 
My math says that's a lot more wasted water than the single flush of the old
toilet.


-- 

=====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos==============
.+.^.+.|  Ray Arachelian    |Prying open my 3rd eye.  So good to see |./|\.
..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were      |/\|/\
<--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run  |\/|\/
../|\..| "A toast to Odin,  |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/.
.+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were....            |.....
======================= http://www.sundernet.com ==========================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 13:44:30 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: RE: Spot The Fed
Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A19284637@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Traceroute doesn't use DNS? Whatever.

And it's ICMP, Internet Control Management Protocol.

The original traceroute works by sending User Datagram Protocol (UDP)
datagrams (default 3) to an invalid port address of a remote host,
starting with a Time-To-Live (TTL) of 1 causing the first router in the
path to return an ICMP Time Exceeded Message (TEM), traceroute
increments the TTL by one (up the max hop count, default 30) and
resends, reaching the next router, until an ICMP Destination Unreachable
Message is returned indicating the unreachable port on the destination
host.

The IP addresses of the hops are determined by the return packet
headers, there is no hostname. Reverse DNS lookup is used to give you
the host names, which can be turned on or off in the traceroute options
(it's much faster if you turn it off).

Traceroute was a diagnostic kludge. RFC 1393 describes and ICMP-based
traceroute function, whereby traceroute sends an ICMP trace message (see
the RFC for details) but there is still no hostname on the return
packet, DNS is still used.

Certain ICMP messages are often disabled and/or certain ports blocked or
"shaped" by routers under thresholds to prevent common Denial-of-Service
(DoS) attacks.

	Matt



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Raymond D. Mereniuk [mailto:Raymond@fbn.bc.ca]

> Traceroute doesn't use DNS, it doesn't need to as it already has the 
> IP numbers.  DNS is a system which provides IP numbers when you 
> give it a domain name.  Reverse DNS provides a host name to an IP 
> address but Traceroute doesn't use it.
> 
> Traceroute works at the router level.  Traceroute is like Ping but 
> provides information on every hop including IP number and 
> assigned device name.  With Traceroute if a host name is not 
> received, when requested of course, it is because the equipment 
> was not assigned a host name or it is deliberately suppressed.  I 
> don't use Traceroute a lot but this is the first time I have 
> seen host names suppressed.  
> 
> A lot of routers have ICM suppressed and will not provide a device 
> name.  If an end user site wants to provide better security they will 
> turn off ICM packets.  At that point Traceroute doesn't work at all.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 11:53:44 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 8:15 PM -0500 9/9/98, Jim Choate wrote:
>Forwarded message:
>> 	Put about 2% detergent (just about any grade will do) into that
>> "water spray", and the fire goes out quicker, and stays out longer.
>
>That'll work for gasoline because soap and gasoline are soluble. I doubt it
>would work very well for alcohol but once I get this mess with the tree
>straightened out I'll do a little backyard experiment.
>
>What I had in mind was to pour some alcohol on the concrete drive way and
>light it. Then use a waterbottle with a water/soap mix. Do you think that
>would be a suitable simulation?

	No.

	I know just a bit about Fuel Fires as I worked in Aircraft
Firefighting  and Resuce for Uncle Sams Miserable Children in the last 1/2
of the 80's.

	The point of using the detergent has nothing to do with it's
solubility in gasoline/kerosene (I have much more experience with JP5 than
gas, and JP5 is basically a high grade kerosene/diesel), but rather it is
there to break up the water tension & allow the water to "float" on top of
the gas/oil/whatever. It also improves (somewhat) the "wetting" properties
of water, allowing it to saturate porus material (wood, newspaper rolls
whatever) better.

>> 	There are plenty of unused roof tops here in Chicago bouncing free
>> energy off into the air.
>Yep, use the roof of every 10+ houses to power a single house...

	Actually, by using solar heating/cooling techiques instead of
(ineffecient) conversion to electicity, you can save MUCH more energy.

>Ok, so we let PART of the people starve and die in the dark.

	And the problem here is...

>> 	The waste problem goes away of you build a decently stable launch
>> platform and drop the shit into the sun.
>
>We don't have engines at this point that can do that. The fact is that it
>takes more energy to get to the sun than it does to leave the solar system.
>Nope, not the answer. (I do experimental, ie big bird, rockets for grins and
>giggles)

	I don't see how, you just get it up there inside the orbit of the
earth, and let gravity do the rest.

>> "power sats" into orbit (altho I am not real clear on how the energy gets
>> back down, something about using microwaves )
>
>Microwaves, and god help you if you happen to fly through one. I won't even
>talk about the costs of development, control, maintenance, etc. This won't
>fly any time in the next couple of hundred years at least. What about the
>heating of the water in the air, can you say global warming on a scale that
>would make the current issues irrelevant.

	Like I said, I wasn't too sure on the last one.

>> 	Also, you ignored, or didn't see the "mix of" statement. Oil CAN be
>> replaced, and should be. There are plenty of ways to replace the energy
>
>Absolutely, I want to replace it. I want to replace it with something that
>is renewable, won't have the ecological impact of the others, won't squeeze
>the small countries out, etc. If it requires killing a single salamander
>then it's the wrong choice simply to make a profit.

	I don't mind killing a salamander or 100, but I don't want my
electric supply, and it's attendant costs to be dependent on ONE
technology, or source of supply.

>> for clean air as much as the next guy, and I guess trees are kinda nice to
>> look at, but I'd like to see far more diversity in energy sources, and
>> investigation into more long term, renewable sources.
>I love trees.

	I like desks, decks, houses, tables, chairs, etc.

	Oh, and altho it's not the most Green solution, we heated my
parents last home (3000 sq. feet in central Missouri) entirely with wood
for 5 or 6 years. Took about 2 cords per year IIRC. Not for everyone tho'.

>The problem is that there aren't that many renewable resources that won't
>break the bank or create a have/have-not situation that would be rife with
>conflict potential.

	We already have the have/have not situatiuon.

>> 	Actually it looks like something that could be made in a factory.
>> Take a methane source (sewage, rotting plant matter) pump it into really
>> cold water under pressure, and blam.
>
>You need pressure as well. But yes, this is a possibility as well. I

	I said "cold water under pressure".

>haven't seen the energy costs on this approach. The largest producers of
>methane on the planet are cows. Perhaps we should shove a hose up the hinney
>of all the cows...:)

	Factory farms, just add some sort of methane collector.

>> 	Depends on what you want it to replace. The one of the largest uses
>> of oil is in the transportation sector, and "they" have been pushing
>> Natural Gas there for years to little effect.
>
>Absolutely, there is a hurdle to jump. One of the main issues with the
>traditional natural gas deposits are that they are expensive because of the
>drilling requirements, non-renewable, and not evenly distributed to
>potential users. Something deep-ocean clathrates and potentialy your
>industrial process idea don't have.

	I think there is also this issue that NG doesn't "burn" when the
tank cracks, it "explodes", and when it does burn, it is very similar to
alcohol in that it doesn't have much of a flame.

petro@playboy.com----for work related issues. I don't speak for Playboy.
petro@bounty.org-----for everthing else.      They wouldn't like that.
                                              They REALLY
Economic speech IS political speech.          wouldn't like that.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ray Arachelian 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 11:24:12 +0800
To: raymond@fbn.bc.ca
Subject: Re: Spot The Fed / ICMP, UDP, and traceroute
In-Reply-To: <199809100428.VAA17926@leroy.fbn.bc.ca>
Message-ID: <35F7FC76.44C31F86@brainlink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Raymond D. Mereniuk wrote:

> Traceroute doesn't use DNS, it doesn't need to as it already has the
> IP numbers.  DNS is a system which provides IP numbers when you
> give it a domain name.  Reverse DNS provides a host name to an IP
> address but Traceroute doesn't use it.
> 
> Traceroute works at the router level.  Traceroute is like Ping but
> provides information on every hop including IP number and
> assigned device name.  With Traceroute if a host name is not
> received, when requested of course, it is because the equipment
> was not assigned a host name or it is deliberately suppressed.  I
> don't use Traceroute a lot but this is the first time I have seen host
> names suppressed.
> 
> A lot of routers have ICM suppressed and will not provide a device
> name.  If an end user site wants to provide better security they will
> turn off ICM packets.  At that point Traceroute doesn't work at all.

Not quite true.  traceroute does use DNS.  If you do traceroute www.joe.com
it will use dns to resolve it to an ip.  If you do traceroute 10.0.0.1, it
will use dns to resolve it to a name.   At every hop, it will use reverse
DNS to resolve the ip's to names.  If a hop doesn't have a reverse, you see
it's ip.

Traceroute under unix uses UDP on some high random port.  Traceroute on NT
(TRACERT.EXE) uses ICMP.  In both cases, it sets the TTL field to 1, and sends
a message.  The router dropping the message responds with ICMP telling your
host, "packet dropped due to ttl" -- this returns that router's ip address to
you.   (For non TCP heads - each packet has a TTL - time to live field that
gets decreased as the packet "hops" across a router.  When the TTL reaches
zero, the next router to receive it drops it and returns an error to the
sender.  This mechanism is used to prevent router loops from brining down all
the networks in the loop among other things like tracing a route...)

One can hide routers by making them ignore ICMP or not respond to ICMP.  In
such cases, you simply get time outs (a line with 3 *'s)...

A good test is to use traceroute from NT/95 and another from unix so you can
tell what's filtered.

-- 

=====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos==============
.+.^.+.|  Ray Arachelian    |Prying open my 3rd eye.  So good to see |./|\.
..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were      |/\|/\
<--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run  |\/|\/
../|\..| "A toast to Odin,  |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/.
.+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were....            |.....
======================= http://www.sundernet.com ==========================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 14:34:37 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: oil, greens, recycling, and poly-ticks.
In-Reply-To: <199809101649.JAA18487@leroy.fbn.bc.ca>
Message-ID: <35F82A2D.65AD@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> Yep, and they can't figgure out what to say, so they just cop out saying it's healthier.  :)
> 
Julia Child, when asked to what she owed her longevity, replied:

"RED MEAT AND GIN"

Anyone got a good recipe for a New Orleans style bourbon steak?




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Bernardo B. Terrado" 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 23:54:22 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Forwarded mail....
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Do you have the same mail?
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 19:27:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jrjeffro@aol.com

HaCkaZ OnlY Da EliTeHelLO YaLL DiS is Da MaDD AAOOLL HaCka Ima startin a GreWp fOR HaCs Only So In OthA WerDS yA gOttA KnOw The WAreZ anD HoW toO UsEr FaTe AnD AOL So MaIl Or Im Me FoR Da TeTaIls If YeR LeeTo K Pe@CE FrOmE The LeeTs HacKJeFFrO)
>




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 12:28:04 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Citizenship silliness.  Re: e$: crypto-expatriatism (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809101750.MAA04560@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 11:46:40 -0500
> From: Petro 
> Subject: Re: Citizenship silliness.  Re: e$: crypto-expatriatism (fwd)

> >That'll work for gasoline because soap and gasoline are soluble. I doubt it
> >would work very well for alcohol but once I get this mess with the tree
> >straightened out I'll do a little backyard experiment.
> >
> >What I had in mind was to pour some alcohol on the concrete drive way and
> >light it. Then use a waterbottle with a water/soap mix. Do you think that
> >would be a suitable simulation?
> 
> 	No.

Ok, then what would be a suitable test in your view?

It seems to me that after reviewing your comments this would be sufficient.
We have a small pool of fuel that is on fire, we spray water on it and
monitor the behaviour. We then create another similar pool and spary water
w/ detergent in it and note any differences.

> 	The point of using the detergent has nothing to do with it's
> solubility in gasoline/kerosene (I have much more experience with JP5 than
> gas, and JP5 is basically a high grade kerosene/diesel), but rather it is
> there to break up the water tension & allow the water to "float" on top of
> the gas/oil/whatever.

Actualy it's to keep the water from forming 'beads' because of differences
in density. The surface tension of water is much higher than most fuels so
if you put a little water in a lot of fuel you don't want it to bead. This
is analogouse to why you put your injector cleaner in *before* the gas so
that the difference in density won't effect the thoroughness of the mixing.
You can do the same sort of thing at home with cooking oil, water, and
detergent.

As to water floating on top of gasoline, it won't for any lentgh of time
greater than a fraction of a second, detergent or no detergent.

> 	Actually, by using solar heating/cooling techiques instead of
> (ineffecient) conversion to electicity, you can save MUCH more energy.

I have several friends who are as fanatical about this technology as you
seem to be. I find it interesting that in 20 years of playing with it they
are still in the red.

The proof is in the pudding.

> 	I don't see how, you just get it up there inside the orbit of the
> earth, and let gravity do the rest.

If it was ONLY that simple. When you leave the Earth you have the Earths
orbital momental (and it is considerable). I'll refer you to:

Classical Mechanics (2nd ed)
HC Corben, P. Stehle
ISBN 0-486-68063-0 (Dover)
$10.95

Introduction to Space Dynamics
WT Thomson
ISBN 0-486-65113-4 (Dover)
$8.00

Because I'm way to lazy today to want to delve in to triple-integrals and
such.

> 	I don't mind killing a salamander or 100, but I don't want my
> electric supply, and it's attendant costs to be dependent on ONE
> technology, or source of supply.

If there is any alternative that will fulfill the requirements and doesn't
require the arbitrary collateral damage then it isn't worth it, period. If
for no other reason than the ethical responsibility to pass on the world as
undamaged as possible to the next generation. (another oversite in current
economic thought that I find makes it unusable)

> 	We already have the have/have not situatiuon.

True, but only because the current energy sources are located in specific
geographic areas.

> 	I think there is also this issue that NG doesn't "burn" when the
> tank cracks, it "explodes", and when it does burn, it is very similar to
> alcohol in that it doesn't have much of a flame.

Actualy natural gas isn't any more flamable than gasoline or alcohol. What
makes it safer is the gas diffuses in the air much faster than either
alcohol or gasoline. In fact, in an accident I'd rather have a gas involved
than a liquid because of this. I've seen several natural gas fires and they
burn a yellow-orange (course they could be putting something in there
besides the odorant to cause this).


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Connectfree Admins" 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 07:15:19 +0800
To: 
Subject: Error.
Message-ID: <00e7c5250110a98WEB@www.telinco.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



We are experiencing some technical difficulties with our
software. Please ignore this message.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 12:35:42 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Renewable Energy Stuff (was citizenship silliness) (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809101757.MAA04638@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



First, let me say (again) to everyone ....

Quit sending these responses to my private email. If you want to discuss it
keep it on the list. Any further such private submissions go into /dev/null
unread. This also means you don't need to cc: if you send it to the cpunks
list since I'm subscribed...;)

Now, back to more intersting discussion...

Forwarded message:

> Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 11:26:47 -0600 (MDT)
> From: Jim Burnes 
> Subject: Renewable Energy Stuff (was citizenship silliness)

> Apparently hemp hurd gassification yields a fairly sizeable, renewable
> amount of energy per acre.  Lemme see if I have the reference....

> Historically Hemp (Cannabis Sativa L.) has been a very high yielding plant
> (Haney 1975).  Assuming that hemp produces up to 4 tons/acre seed plus 10
> tons/acre stalks, Table 1 shows how many gallons of liquid fuel import could be
> saved by each of the following proven biomass fuel conversion routes.
> 
>        Table 1. Conversion technologies for hemp stalks and hemp oil
> 
> CONVERSION                                           CONVERSION GASOLINE EQUIV
> TECHNOLOGY                                             EFF - %    GAL/ACRE
> 
> 1  Ethanol from fermentation of hydrolyzed cellulose    20      200
> 2  Digestion of whole stalks to methane                 50      500
> 3  Producer gas from thermal gasification of stalks     85      1000
> 4  Methanol from syngas from gasification of stalks     65      750
> 5  Methanol from pyrolysis of stalks                    3       30
> 
> OIL SEEDS - 4 tons/acre
> 
> 6  Hemp Seed oil from Seeds, no conversion              100     300
> 7  Biobioesel premium diesel fuel from hemp seed        90      270
>     oil combined chemically with methanol

You're going to seriously claim that 1 gallon of hemp oil is equivalent to 3
gallons of gasoline? I don't think so. I've seen hemp burn and it don't burn
anywhere near that efficiently.

I also notice it doesn't mention what it costs to raise that 4 tons/acre...


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 12:48:18 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Model Airplane Bio-weapon Sniffers [CNN]
Message-ID: <199809101810.NAA04843@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> X-within-URL: http://www.cnn.com/TECH/science/9809/09/science.weapons.reut/

>                 "TOY PLANES" COULD SNIFF OUT BIOLOGICAL WEAPONS

>    LONDON (Reuters) - U.S. defense scientists have developed small
>    radio-controlled planes capable of "sniffing out" the presence of
>    biological weapons, a British magazine reported on Wednesday.
>    
>    New Scientist said the aircraft, described by one of their developers
>    as "like little toy planes," are designed to fly low into danger zones
>    looking for up to four suspected types of bacteria.
>    
>    As they patrol, air is forced into an on-board sampling chamber,
>    creating a vortex in a pool of water, the magazine said.
>    
>    Every five minutes, water from this chamber is pumped over a sensor
>    consisting of four optical fibres, each of which has a probe fixed to
>    its core.
>    
>    Each probe is coated with an antibody to which the spores of a
>    particular bacterium will bind if present in the water.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 13:20:12 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 12:50 PM -0500 9/10/98, Jim Choate wrote:
>> 	No.
>
>Ok, then what would be a suitable test in your view?
>
>It seems to me that after reviewing your comments this would be sufficient.
>We have a small pool of fuel that is on fire, we spray water on it and
>monitor the behaviour. We then create another similar pool and spary water
>w/ detergent in it and note any differences.

	Well, we used to dump 1000-3000 gallons of waste fuels into a pit,
but I'd guess a decent size bucket or tray would work.

	We had a smaller pit about 5x3 feet.

	I'd also suggest using a water extinguisher, the kind you can
refill/recharge yourself. There are some out there, the big silver kind
where you can unscrew the top and fill with your liquid of choice, then
presurize with  a tire pump. As an aside, one _could_ fill these with a
combination of gasoline and a gelling agent to make a short range flame
thrower, not that that would be a smart or safe thing to do (really, there
wouldn't be much to keep the flame from wandering back up inside the
cylinder, and haveing it explode in your hands would make it very hard to
type...).

	Also, I know from experience it IS possible to put out a gasoline
fire with straight water. You dump enough on, and it cools the liquid down
to the point where combustion is not possible.

	It can take a bit of doing, but in the case of a car or light
truck, we are talking no more than 10 or 20 gallons of fuel, tops.

>> 	The point of using the detergent has nothing to do with it's
>> solubility in gasoline/kerosene (I have much more experience with JP5 than
>> gas, and JP5 is basically a high grade kerosene/diesel), but rather it is
>> there to break up the water tension & allow the water to "float" on top of
>> the gas/oil/whatever.
>
>Actualy it's to keep the water from forming 'beads' because of differences
>in density. The surface tension of water is much higher than most fuels so
>if you put a little water in a lot of fuel you don't want it to bead. This

	As I said, I know "just a bit" about this. I know that we would
often get the bubbles from the detergent/water combo floating on top of
everything, assisting in preventing a reflash by keeping a blanket between
the air and the fuel/water.

>As to water floating on top of gasoline, it won't for any lentgh of time
>greater than a fraction of a second, detergent or no detergent.

	The longer it takes, the better it works.


>> 	Actually, by using solar heating/cooling techiques instead of
>> (ineffecient) conversion to electicity, you can save MUCH more energy.
>
>I have several friends who are as fanatical about this technology as you
>seem to be. I find it interesting that in 20 years of playing with it they
>are still in the red.

	A "friend" of my fathers has been heating his home with it longer
than I've known him, and that's about 20 years. Had his investment returned
a LONG time ago.

>The proof is in the pudding.

	As with many things, it's the implementation, not just the
underlying technology.

>> 	I don't see how, you just get it up there inside the orbit of the
>> earth, and let gravity do the rest.
>
>If it was ONLY that simple. When you leave the Earth you have the Earths
>orbital momental (and it is considerable). I'll refer you to:

	Ok, like I said, "I don't see how". I hadn't considered all the
angles, but then, I don't play with rockets much.

	My father didn't like me playing with fire, so it wasn't an option
as a child.

>Because I'm way to lazy today to want to delve in to triple-integrals and
>such.

	I doubt I'd understand the math at this point. One of my failings.

>> 	I don't mind killing a salamander or 100, but I don't want my
>> electric supply, and it's attendant costs to be dependent on ONE
>> technology, or source of supply.
>
>If there is any alternative that will fulfill the requirements and doesn't
>require the arbitrary collateral damage then it isn't worth it, period. If

	I'll go that far.

>for no other reason than the ethical responsibility to pass on the world as
>undamaged as possible to the next generation. (another oversite in current
>economic thought that I find makes it unusable)

	Well, there's damaged, and there's damaged.

>Actualy natural gas isn't any more flamable than gasoline or alcohol. What
>makes it safer is the gas diffuses in the air much faster than either
>alcohol or gasoline. In fact, in an accident I'd rather have a gas involved
>than a liquid because of this. I've seen several natural gas fires and they
>burn a yellow-orange (course they could be putting something in there
>besides the odorant to cause this).

	Question, when you said that there we'd need more land under
production than we have available to produce enough CHO3 (IIRC) to replace
oil, was that using current corn/soybean as a base material, or was that
considering higher biomass stuff such as Hemp &etc. As well, where was that
number from?

	I really do think that the best option is massively diversified
energy sources, with each working in their places.

petro@playboy.com----for work related issues. I don't speak for Playboy.
petro@bounty.org-----for everthing else.      They wouldn't like that.
                                              They REALLY
Economic speech IS political speech.          wouldn't like that.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Graham-John Bullers" 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 14:18:40 +0800
To: jya@pipeline.com>
Subject: Re: A Cypherpunk Trial, Yes
In-Reply-To: <199809092216.SAA19854@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <199809101917.NAA19120@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Date sent:      	Wed, 09 Sep 1998 18:10:37 -0400
To:             	cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
From:           	John Young 
Subject:        	A Cypherpunk Trial, Yes
Send reply to:  	John Young  

As i'am one of persons mention in Toto's posts I would just like to 
say I think the posts were a joke.
With the help of of Vullis I was a pain to the list and this was Toto's 
way of acknowledging this
To the government readers of this list,the cigar was Cuban,will you 
put Bill in the cell with Toto.

>    http://jya.com/jg062397.htm
>    http://jya.com/jg090497.htm
>    http://jya.com/jg120997.htm
>    http://jya.com/jg121497.htm
>    http://jya.com/jg060898.htm (not June 10, as in the complaint; thanks to
> jeff-anon)
>    http://jya.com/jg072598.htm
>    http://jya.com/jg072798.htm
> 
> It was a pleasure to reread Toto(s)'s stuff while searching the 
> cpunk amazing archives -- what a waterfall from everyone of free 
> association, tants, jibes, potshots and richochets and self-mockery. 
> I now believe the report from TX that Carl's got an IQ off the charts
> like all cpunks off the wall.
> 
> It's worth keeping in mind that multiple users of pseudonyms is
> not unusual, at least among artists long before the Internet, and 
> not only performance group e-mailers like the Totos, CJ Parkers, 
> XxxMongers, Gus-Peters and endless Anonymees jostling for
> unrecognition.
> 
> Two venerable and heavily-used nyms in Europe are Luther Bissett 
> and Monty Cantsin. A dazzling Monty Cantsin posted here for a 
> while. A Luther Bissett message ridiculing the recent kiddie porn
> sweep was posted to Cyberia a few days ago. But these pseudonyms 
> and others are frequently used to taunt uptight authoritarians by 
> substantial numbers of people, sometimes acting in concert but 
> most often acting alone.
> 
> An exemplary case of acting up like the Totos and other performance
> pseudo-Feynmann's here, is that of Dario Fo, the Italian artist who 
> recently won the Nobel Prize. His off the chart genius, too, was in 
> mixing the real and imaginary to challenge, and to frighten, authority 
> into revealing their treacherous deception of the real and imaginary 
> to maintain state and religious control century after century, culture
> after culture. He, too, was regularly condemned by those obsesses
> with holding onto power, and sometimes arrested, for his imitations
> of them at their most buffoonish and serious.
> 
> Fo is from an earlier generation, though, and what more agressively
> offensive form is suitable for those younger we may be witnessing in 
> the Jim Bells, Unknown Arrestees, and those here not yet projected 
> onto the world stage but working the crowd most effectively.
> 
> Black Unicorn, step up to the mike. Show magic.
> 
> In any, case, I'm delighted to see Cypherpunks get credit in the Johnson
> pseudo-complaint for hosting transgressive art appropriate for the age of 
> widespreading disinformation. A tumultous trial to amplify this forum's 
> mayhemic virtues and vices would be magnificently chaotic and hopefully 
> anarchic to the max. 
> 
> Pray for CJ to get an equally mad attorney to demand his day, and our day, 
> in court. This under-recognized witness is eager for a highly offensive 
> part to play, a gibbering idiot like Toto(s), you bet, I admire their style of
> spleen and threat to the fools of seriousness.
> 
> 
> 


                  Graham-John Bullers
real@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca | ab756@freenet.toronto.on.ca
   http://www.freenet.edmonton.ab.ca/~real/index.html

    I dream of things that never were and say,why not?    




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ray Arachelian 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 12:20:55 +0800
To: raymond@fbn.bc.ca
Subject: Re: oil, greens, recycling, and poly-ticks.
In-Reply-To: <199809101649.JAA18487@leroy.fbn.bc.ca>
Message-ID: <35F809C4.4ED03ABC@brainlink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Raymond D. Mereniuk wrote:

> In the Vancouver BC area they are trying to raise the price and the
> new standard is CAN$0.549 per litre, or US$1.37 per US gallon.
> Not difficult to find CAN$0.454/l or US$1.14/g.  For the last few
> weeks you could find CAN$0.399/l or US$1.00/g.  I often go to
> Blaine WA and the lowest available there is US$1.059.  Gas in
> Seattle WA is at least US$1.199.

Bastards!
 
> Have you ever tried using this argument on a Vegetarian?  I have
> and they squirm in all directions attempting to rationalize their
> irrational position.  Basically some living things are more living than
> others.  Sort of reminds you of some politicians where it is obvious
> from their actions that some people are more equal than other
> people.

Yep, and they can't figgure out what to say, so they just cop out saying it's
healthier.  :)

-- 

=====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos==============
.+.^.+.|  Ray Arachelian    |Prying open my 3rd eye.  So good to see |./|\.
..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were      |/\|/\
<--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run  |\/|\/
../|\..| "A toast to Odin,  |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/.
.+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were....            |.....
======================= http://www.sundernet.com ==========================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Brown, R Ken" 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 13:29:55 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com
Subject: RE: Renewable Energy Stuff (was citizenship silliness) (fwd)
Message-ID: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F8414@MSX11002>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate wrote:

> Quit sending these responses to my private email. If you want to
discuss it
> keep it on the list. Any further such private submissions go into
/dev/null
> unread. This also means you don't need to cc: if you send it to the
cpunks
> list since I'm subscribed...;)

It's because we're using these broken-as-designed mailers 
that put your name into the reply as well as the the list :-(

> Now, back to more intersting discussion...

Definitely

[...snip Jim Burnes on hemp yields (because you all already read it...]

> You're going to seriously claim that 1 gallon of hemp oil is
equivalent to 3
> gallons of gasoline? I don't think so. I've seen hemp burn and it
don't burn
> anywhere near that efficiently.

I'm begining to lose track of this thread. Are we talking about:

1) reducing  fossil fuel use for conservation? (not something
Cypherpunks mention a lot :-)

2) ways of cutting the imported fuel requirement of "western"
countries in order to save money and/or  teach the Arabs a lesson?
(cf the sideline about Israel)

3) how to live with as little interaction as possible with the 
the existing state or corporate economy?

4) what we do for fuel if the balloon goes up, the lights go out,
the crash comes & we are in an "Earth Abides" scenario? 
i.e everyone has died, or gone away, or stopped working for 
money and we ahve to survive as best we can?

If (1) or (2) then reducing fuel consumption is a damn
sight more cost-effective than substituting anything else 
for motor gas. You know, insulation, designing buildings
for the climate, high fuel taxes, subsidised public
transport... all the things us lefty Europeans like bit that
don't go down well in Houston, Texas. I take Jim's point
about solar-powered houses being a money pit - although
there does seem to be some medium-term benefit in 
glass cladding  for passive solar heating (known to our
 ancestors as "conservatories" :-)

And if (2) is what you mean then you probably ought to 
carry on paying the dollars to those Arabs so they carry on
spending them on American products - like McDonalds 
and Disney and MS Windows. Cultural imperialism works
wonders. For every Muslim for whom America is the 
great Satan there is another for whom it is the home of
Elvis. Or the Simpsons. Or Charley Pride. Or even Jim 
Reeves. You wouldn't believe how much Jim Reeves 
you hear in Africa.

For (3) again the easy way is to arrange your lifestyle
to consume less.  I expect if you are distilling fuel-grade
alcohol in your yard the local equivalent of customs and
excise will want a word with you.

If you are going to burn plant material for fuel
don't bother with oil.  Either distill the alcohol (if you 
are in a warmish climate like southern California you can
probably get the best yields from cane - but it sucks up 
water like a herd of  hungry camels) or burn wood.

In a temperate climate you probably get the best yields 
from coppiced trees - use whatever  grows in your local area
and coppices well. Willow grown in wetlands does well.
The yield of burnable biomass is far better than most 
herbaceous crops. Use hazel, birch even oak. 
Leaves make animal feed, stouter poles are for timber,
thinner ones for burning - if you need higher temperature
make charcoal out of it.    Lots of use for the bark as well. 
Just like our ancestors used to do before all this 
industry. Of course you won't be able to run a car on it...
for that you need the alcohol.

If we did get thrown back to a mediaeval economy those 
of us who survived probably would be growing hemp
(you heard it here first) but not as a fuel crop.

Hemp has great yields but it isn't much cop as fuel
It was one of  the major crops in England a thousand 
years ago -  in some pollen studies it was the major crop. 
That's not for recreational or medicinal use (you don't
need acres of it for that)  but as animal feed and 
for fibre, with fuel as a useful byproduct. Probably not as an 
an oil crop & if it was it would probably be cooking oil.

> I also notice it doesn't mention what it costs to raise that 4
tons/acre...

Clearly more than getting oil from out of the ground.
That's why my employers are still in business.

There were some Welsh hill farmers on the radio the other day
asking more  more subsidy from the government.
Apparently their average income is now only about 10,000 UKP a year
(maybe 16,000 USD). They were complaining that their fathers
and grandfathers used to be able to get a living from the 
land, but they can't, and they were blaming the "global market"
and urban-dominated governments who didn't understand
farming.

Of course the truth is that they can live the way their grandfathers
lived if they want to. But in the last 100 years *everyone* *else* has
got richer and the way of life of a small farmer in the Welsh hills
now looks like poverty.

And there is nothing (other than the law) to stop someone with 
30 acres and a cow from growing their hemp and their willow
withies (in Wales)  or their cotton and their cane (in California)
and riding their own  horse and making their own clothes and 
having almost nothing to do with the rest of the modern economy.

But they won't be able to have a car, or a computer and if they 
get any modern medicine it will be on welfare.

We probably ought to know *how* to live like that, just in case things
really fall apart.  (I remember once having to show someone how to 
squat over a hole-in-the-ground latrine because he had only ever
used bogs with seats) . But don't look forward to it.

Ken Brown (usual disclaimers still in force)






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 13:35:52 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Renewable Energy Stuff (was citizenship silliness) (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199809101757.MAA04638@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 12:57 PM -0500 9/10/98, Jim Choate wrote:
>> Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 11:26:47 -0600 (MDT)
>> From: Jim Burnes 
>> Subject: Renewable Energy Stuff (was citizenship silliness)
>> Apparently hemp hurd gassification yields a fairly sizeable, renewable
>> amount of energy per acre.  Lemme see if I have the reference....
>
>> Historically Hemp (Cannabis Sativa L.) has been a very high yielding plant
>> (Haney 1975).  Assuming that hemp produces up to 4 tons/acre seed plus 10
>> tons/acre stalks, Table 1 shows how many gallons of liquid fuel import
>>could be
>> saved by each of the following proven biomass fuel conversion routes.
>>
>>        Table 1. Conversion technologies for hemp stalks and hemp oil
>>
>> CONVERSION                                           CONVERSION GASOLINE
>>EQUIV
>> TECHNOLOGY                                             EFF - %    GAL/ACRE
>>
>> 1  Ethanol from fermentation of hydrolyzed cellulose    20      200
>> 2  Digestion of whole stalks to methane                 50      500
>> 3  Producer gas from thermal gasification of stalks     85      1000
>> 4  Methanol from syngas from gasification of stalks     65      750
>> 5  Methanol from pyrolysis of stalks                    3       30
>>
>> OIL SEEDS - 4 tons/acre
>>
>> 6  Hemp Seed oil from Seeds, no conversion              100     300
>> 7  Biobioesel premium diesel fuel from hemp seed        90      270
>>     oil combined chemically with methanol
>
>You're going to seriously claim that 1 gallon of hemp oil is equivalent to 3
>gallons of gasoline? I don't think so. I've seen hemp burn and it don't burn
>anywhere near that efficiently.

	No, he is saying you get the energy equiv. of 300 gallons of gas
from 4 tons of seed, PLUS the other stuff from the stalks.

	I can't speak for the veracity of the numbers, but that would be my
interpretation.

	Also, he is talking when processed into fuel oil/gas, not put in a
pipe and...

	Never mind.

petro@playboy.com----for work related issues. I don't speak for Playboy.
petro@bounty.org-----for everthing else.      They wouldn't like that.
                                              They REALLY
Economic speech IS political speech.          wouldn't like that.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 15:36:16 +0800
To: Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer 
Subject: Happy Fourth of July ( was : Re: Citizenship silliness.  Re: e$: crypto-expatriatism (fwd))
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <35F83878.62D5@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Happy Fourth of July! and how did this thread start?

Petro wrote:
> 
>         I'd also suggest using a water extinguisher, the kind you can
> refill/recharge yourself. There are some out there, the big silver kind
> where you can unscrew the top and fill with your liquid of choice, then
> presurize with  a tire pump. As an aside, one _could_ fill these with a
> combination of gasoline and a gelling agent to make a short range flame
> thrower, not that that would be a smart or safe thing to do (really, there
> wouldn't be much to keep the flame from wandering back up inside the
> cylinder, and haveing it explode in your hands would make it very hard to
> type...).
> 
Actually these things are usually inverted so that the liquid is fed out
from the bottom so the hose probably won't act like a fuse. At least
until the liquid runs out and there is a combustible pathway into the
container. If you try this one could you get someone to videotape it
from a safe distance? It would make a great AVI for an 'anarchists on
the web' site.

At least mention nitrogen or helium. 
But COMPRESSED_AIR + GASOLINE? 
Are you one nut short of a matched pair? 
Gasoline scares the hell out of me. It should you.
You don't live anywhere near me do you?
You should try baking bread instead.
Don't you think this conversation should be continued on some AOL forum? 

egads,
Mike




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Burnes 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 14:43:11 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: Renewable Energy Stuff (was citizenship silliness) (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199809101757.MAA04638@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Thu, 10 Sep 1998, Jim Choate wrote:

(risking /dev/nullification "is that like jury nullification?")

> Forwarded message:
> 
> > Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 11:26:47 -0600 (MDT)
> > From: Jim Burnes 
> > Subject: Renewable Energy Stuff (was citizenship silliness)
> 
> > Apparently hemp hurd gassification yields a fairly sizeable, renewable
> > amount of energy per acre.  Lemme see if I have the reference....
> 
> > Historically Hemp (Cannabis Sativa L.) has been a very high yielding plant
> > (Haney 1975).  Assuming that hemp produces up to 4 tons/acre seed plus 10
> > tons/acre stalks, Table 1 shows how many gallons of liquid fuel import could be
> > saved by each of the following proven biomass fuel conversion routes.
> > 
> >        Table 1. Conversion technologies for hemp stalks and hemp oil
> > 
> > CONVERSION                                           CONVERSION GASOLINE EQUIV
> > TECHNOLOGY                                             EFF - %    GAL/ACRE
> > 
> > 1  Ethanol from fermentation of hydrolyzed cellulose    20      200
> > 2  Digestion of whole stalks to methane                 50      500
> > 3  Producer gas from thermal gasification of stalks     85      1000
> > 4  Methanol from syngas from gasification of stalks     65      750
> > 5  Methanol from pyrolysis of stalks                    3       30
> > 
> > OIL SEEDS - 4 tons/acre
> > 
> > 6  Hemp Seed oil from Seeds, no conversion              100     300
> > 7  Biobioesel premium diesel fuel from hemp seed        90      270
> >     oil combined chemically with methanol
> 
> You're going to seriously claim that 1 gallon of hemp oil is equivalent to 3
> gallons of gasoline? I don't think so. I've seen hemp burn and it don't burn
> anywhere near that efficiently.

I think you misunderstood.  They are claiming "gasoline equivalent
gallons/acre" -- not that 1 gallon of hemp oil = 3 gallons of gasoline.
And were not talking about "burning" hemp in that sense.  In this
particular case were talking about hemp-based biodiesel.

> 
> I also notice it doesn't mention what it costs to raise that 4 tons/acre...
> 

Raising a full acre of hemp in that matter is something I don't have the
data on.  However, hemp is widely known as a low-maintenance crop -- that
translates little to no fertilizer.  After that we have the price of the
land/month, servicing loans on the farm equipment, labor costs, taxes,
energy, water etc.  Typical business overhead.   And for that 1000 galgas
eq/acre.

Certainly nothing out of the ordinary compared to the overhead in
the oil industry.  Although on a cost/gallon overhead I don't know.
Obviously this would take a least one growth season.

ObCrypto: In the case of TEOTWAWKI from Y2K, we are going to need
energy to run our computers and crypto on.  This might also be 
important to the people wanting to run a packet radio relay net.
(even though the then non-existant FCC might not like them
using crypto on a packet link)

I copied Tom Reed and Agua Das on this since they can address
the tech matters more thoroughly than I can.

Other than that we should probably take this off list.

Jim





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 15:54:21 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: RE: ASL: RE: RE: RE: Copyright infringement (fwd)
Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A1928463C@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




> Um, actualy not. It is actualy illegal for me to allow you to 
> borrow my books, CD's, albums, etc.

Uh, how so? Distribution copyright covers first-sale only, after that
the owner can lend or sell that item. If it were not for this, public
and private libraries could not exist.

This works for IP protected in tangible form, but falls down for
electronic IP. Software is not protected by distribution copyright, it
is instead licensed.

	Matt







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 19:07:38 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: Re: radio net (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A19284623@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980910135746.00c4c100@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>Matthew James Gering wrote:
>> Isn't there a similar ban on encryption-capable telephones and other
>> electronic devices (other than computers).

Not per se, though there _is_ still one major restriction -
the Defense Department gets a crack at patent applications,
so if you try to patent a crypto algorithm or crypto phone,
they can seize and classify your patent application and
working materials, using the excuse of "national security".
There was a case in the late 70s where somebody tried to patent
a wimpy analog scrambler for CB radios, and got it seized,
and a number of patent applications that got delayed a long time.

The RSA and Diffie-Hellman algorithms were published first,
and then the patents applied for, which works in the US and Canada
but makes them unpatentable in much of the rest of the world.
Steve Bellovin also got lots of legal advice about what order
to submit his patent applications and academic papers to
avoid the risk of getting them stolen by the Feds.

At 09:22 AM 9/10/98 -0700, Michael Motyka wrote:
>I suspect that the reason that there aren't any $99 cryptophones at
>Wal-Mart is that there really is not a significant market. The average
>person just doesn't care. And the consumer electronics business is so
>competitive and cost-sensitive that adding cost as a matter of principle
>is just not going to happen. 

Sure there are - my $150 cordless phone uses spread-spectrum,
partly for better sound quality, partly for better privacy,
and partly because it's simpler than picking individual channels.
I think it's probably the frequency-hopping form of spread-spectrum,
and the hopping speed is probably deliberately low because of
Federal pressure, but it's still reasonable voice privacy.
(And the digital phones that don't do spread-spectrum still advertise
using "digital" for privacy...)  My phone's a couple of years old;
you can probably get one for <$100 now.

Analog cell-phones aren't secure, but the digital cell-phones
on the market all provide cryptography for voice privacy,
though not all cellular service providers support it.
CDMA provides some inherent security, and it, TDMA, and GSM
all offer some encryption features - having prominent politicians
get caught talking to their girlfriends on their cellphones
has helped raise the awareness of privacy.
(The real price of a cell-phone in the US is hard to determine;
most range from about $100-700 without service activation,
and $0-400 with a service contract of typically 1 year.
But the low end's close to $99.)

>Oh, I suppose it's possible that anyone
>trying to introduce a product like this could run into LEA interference
>- endless audits, supplier problems, FCC approvals, you name it but lack
>of market is probably the simplest explanation.

The NSA and FBI did the best job of FUD they could arm-twisting the
US digital cellular standards committees into using wimpy encryption,
and GSM had its own set of wrangling that went on, producing a
primary algorithm that's weak, and a bunch of alternative algorithms
that are progressively weaker.  I probably couldn't break the GSM 
main code myself, but I know where to find people who can,
and just about any of the frequent readers of this list could break
some of the other systems used.

But that doesn't mean there isn't a strong demand for voice privacy -
just that the average consumer is satisfied having _some_ privacy,
enough to keep casual observers out and neighbors from stealing phone service,
and either doesn't believe the police would illegaly wiretap _him_,
or (more cynically) doesn't believe the cellphone is enough protection
if they do decide to target him.


				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 13:37:28 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: Renewable Energy Stuff (was citizenship silliness) (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809101859.NAA05373@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: "Brown, R Ken" 
> Subject: RE: Renewable Energy Stuff (was citizenship silliness) (fwd)
> Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 13:30:05 -0500

> > Now, back to more intersting discussion...
> 
> Definitely

> I'm begining to lose track of this thread. Are we talking about:

Well if we really, really must go back there....;)

What I was originaly looking to discuss was the impact of the injection of a
globaly available, economical, and effective replacement of petroleum
products on the international relationships. In particular the impact on
places like Isreal, Iran, US, etc. The only real relevance this has to
cypherpunks is from the economics side (why I've been trying to stay on
topic with the economics comments in parens) and how such a shift of
economic and industrial capabilites out of centralized and nationaly
controlled geographies might impact these same countries ability to remain
stable and the consequences of such.

Take Kuwait for example, the impact there would be devistating. And like a
domino effect (or want of a nail...) the repurcussions can be imagined to
run up the food chain. It is related, though not directly, to an issue that
I was engaged in several days ago about Gibson and the relationships of
governments, individuals, large companies, technology development, etc.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Soren 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 13:04:16 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: [Fwd: Citizenship silliness.  Re: e$: crypto-expatriatism (fwd)]
Message-ID: <35F81543.365F22DD@workmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Sorry Jim,  slip of the wrist.

Hydroelectric turbines generate electric power. Feed this into the power
grid; well, maybe until the end of next year.  Maybe after 2000 we'll
see the un-nationalization of the national power grid.  Bay of Fundy is
>50 (?) square miles and tidal range is 25feet, one of the largest in
the world.

There have been discussions in the past to do likewise to the Bering
strait also.  Sorry about that whales.






To: sorens@workmail.com (Soren)
Subject: Re: Citizenship silliness.  Re: e$: crypto-expatriatism (fwd)
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 13:01:39 -0500 (CDT)
In-Reply-To: <35F7FF53.E57503AE@workmail.com> from "Soren" at Sep 10, 98 12:33:23 pm


Hi Soren,

Let's keep it on the list please...

> What about tidal hydro?  Bay of Fundy would be appropriate.

Figure the volume of the Bay from low tide and the highest tide. Then figure
the time needed to fill. From this you can calculate the maximum amount of
energy available.

If you live near the Bay I suppose it would work, won't help the folks 50
miles away though...

The goal is to find a renewable, generaly available source of energy so that
geographic proximity is irrelevant.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 19:07:51 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: radio net (fwd)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980910141331.00cd0b60@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>> > The FCC prohibits the transmission of encrypted data via analog or digital
>> > signals by amateurs.
>> I'd love to see them try to enforce that.  What about chaffing and
>> winnowing?  Stego?  Transmission of random noise? ;)  Anyone have the text
>> of the actual rules concerning this?

Put it like this, it took the Feds a long time to be willing to accept
RTTY (Radio Teletype), because it used this 7(?)-bit ASCII CODE stuff.
On the other hand, they've relaxed a lot, as amateurs have largely become
computer hackers as well, equipment changed, Morse became less relevant....
As long as the ham user community doesn't get annoyed at you,
and you don't abuse the available bandwidth, you ought to be able to stego
a certain amount of traffic through the net, either using some sort of
PointyHairedBoss code, or low-order bits in GIFs, or whatever.


				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 14:19:43 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: ASL: RE: RE: RE: Copyright infringement (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809101938.OAA05621@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 10:58:40 -0700
> From: Randy King 
> Subject: Re: ASL: RE: RE: RE: Copyright infringement (fwd)

> Yes, but there is a difference.  It is legal to share a book.  Although it
> is copyrighted, you have the right to share it, at least in the US.  A letter
> is similar.  

Um, actualy not. It is actualy illegal for me to allow you to borrow my
books, CD's, albums, etc.

> been a court case on this yet?  Consider that companies have the right to
> make copies of all electronic mail coming through their Internet connections.

They own it. The employees are acting as agents of the employer and
therefore the employer, not the employee, is the owner of that traffic. So
if you send an email to some mailing list on the clock or with their
equipment then the traffic wasn't ever yours. The owner of a copyright can
make as many copies as they choose. The question is what do they do with the
email that comes from the other person using the other employers computer to
send the traffic....

As far as I know this hasn't made it into court in this exact form, however
it isn't likely too either. The precedences, and reasoning behind, the above
interpretation is well known and understood (at least by lawyers). 

> The issue is still very open on web sites.  The federal govt. is considering
> legislation (even as we type) that would make it illegal to copy any info
> from a web site written by a child (under 18).  Since viewing it makes a copy,
> it would be illegal to look at one without the writer's permission.  And 
> there is no obligation on the writer's part to divulge his age.  It is 
> obvious the feds don't understand the technology yet.  Again, I haven't had
> a chance to observe what has happened here in the past 6 or 8 months now.  

What is the bill number for this?

> Anyway, under your interpretation (which is probably the legal one 
> unfortunately), viewing a web site would be illegal without permission
> first.  Regardless of age.  

Not viewing it since the act of putting the data on the server is an implied
permission to view. However, the instant you make a permanent copy on your
hard-drive, that's not in the browsers short term cache, would be illegal.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 13:59:32 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: CJ Update
Message-ID: <199809101852.OAA28421@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



This from the AZ court docket of September 2 (note the out of sequence
entry date for the first item which was not there when we got the docket
on September 2 although the last two were):

8/25/98  6       ( FILED: 8/31/98) MINUTES:  before Mag Judge Nancy Fiora
                 Court telephonically notified that Carl Johnson is
                 defecating in his food tray, mutilating himself and writing
                 on the walls with his blood; court notes that dft spat upon
                 officers while awaiting his initial appearance[cc: all
                 cnsl] [6-1] re: minute entry [6-1] (sms)
                 [Entry date 09/02/98]

8/26/98  --      ORAL MOTION  for Psychiatric exam [0-0]  by Carl Edward
                 Johnson (sms) [Entry date 08/27/98]

8/26/98  5       ORDER  by Mag Judge Nancy Fiora granting  motion  for
                 Psychiatric exam [0-0]  Psychiatric examination ordered
                 for Carl Edward Johnson (sms) [Entry date 08/27/98]

----------

The AZ docket is archived at:

   http://jya.com/cej090298.htm

We also got today the Western Washington court docket which
shows when CJ's arrest warrant was issued and sealed, August 5:

   http://jya.com/cej082298.htm

We did a quick check of the WA court's cases for others (TCM and JYA)
who may have a sealed arrest warrant in force, but found none. But if 
there are any they may not be entered in the public record yet, as with
Carl's performance artistry.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 14:46:34 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Citizenship silliness.  Re: e$: crypto-expatriatism (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809102009.PAA06031@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 13:15:09 -0500
> From: Petro 
> Subject: Re: Citizenship silliness.  Re: e$: crypto-expatriatism (fwd)

> 	Well, we used to dump 1000-3000 gallons of waste fuels into a pit,
> but I'd guess a decent size bucket or tray would work.
> 
> 	We had a smaller pit about 5x3 feet.

Youser, this is a plan to have every fireman and policeman in Austin show up
at my house Saturday afternoon isn't it (you crafty devil you)?...

I'll have to beg off since I live right in the middle of town any showy
demonstrations would be met with some neighborhood hostility I suspect. I
also don't believe the folks who own the land out in Elgin where my shop is
would go for that either, they're worried enough about my rocket engines and
Tesla coils...

> truck, we are talking no more than 10 or 20 gallons of fuel, tops.

> 	As I said, I know "just a bit" about this. I know that we would
> often get the bubbles from the detergent/water combo floating on top of
> everything, assisting in preventing a reflash by keeping a blanket between
> the air and the fuel/water.

Well in petroleum fires it isn't the liquid that burns but the very thin gas
layer just above it. You can actualy put a gas fire out with a wash of
gasoline. It's got to literaly be thrown on the fire and it needs to be
much larger than the quantity of material being burned. The soap/water
combo act as a layer reducing the outgassing and hence starving the fire of
fuel. It also lowers the temperature also helping the fire fighting
(remember temperature, fuel, oxidizer).

The bubbles of water than form, without the soap, sink to the bottem of the
spilled fuel and play no part in the fire/fire-fighting process.

> 	A "friend" of my fathers has been heating his home with it longer
> than I've known him, and that's about 20 years. Had his investment returned
> a LONG time ago.

Where does he live? What kind of house does he live in? What happens when we
expand his system to cover a small city of say 10k and include schools,
hospitals, business, etc.? What are the costs to install and operate
compared to traditional methods?

If he lives in a wood house in Alaska that won't work, if he lives in a mud
hut in the desert of Nevada all you need is a straw mat, a fan, and some
water to cool (yeah I know that's a literal exageration, but environment
does play a role).

There's this house here in Austin that is thermo-regulated by a fluid that
is pumped several hundred feet into a hill. The temperature in the core of
the hill stays about 68F year around, his house stays around 72 or so year
around as a consequence. Unfortunately, we don't have enough hills in Austin
(and if you've never been to Austin, we're nothing but hills) to take care
of the entire city. The heat from your neighbors house ends up in  your
house and vica versa.

> 	Question, when you said that there we'd need more land under
> production than we have available to produce enough CHO3 (IIRC) to replace
> oil, was that using current corn/soybean as a base material, or was that
> considering higher biomass stuff such as Hemp &etc. As well, where was that
> number from?

I suspect (and that's all it is) that when one takes the population growth
rate, requirements for water, transportation, housing, commercial
enterprises, waste, etc. there won't be enough arrible land left to grow
sufficient quantities of any plant material for anything except food.

There are issues with clathrates as well. Such as the fact these materials
are also the result of decay of animal matter and some percentage of
outgassing on the sea bed from deep geo-sources and ultimitely face the
same sort of issues with petroleum *if* the various curves don't match. The
question is, and I admit to have no hard data other than supposition, what
are/would be the curves if we used clathrates? Is the deposition rate
sufficient given a global extraction rate that was positive over time? Does
the increase in bio-mass as a result of population growth compensate
sufficiently?

I don't know and really would be hesitant to try to put real numbers to that
with what references I have available currently. And given my current
commitment level I'm not likely to spend a great deal of time working on it
to solidify the model.

I support diversity as well, unfortunately in some instances it's more
economical (with the inclusion of waste and other issues normaly ignored)
to go with a single solution on large scales. And that after all is the
issue, not one house out of 10,000 but all 10,000.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 14:53:13 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Renewable Energy Stuff (was citizenship silliness) (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809102014.PAA06141@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 13:46:02 -0600 (MDT)
> From: Jim Burnes 
> Subject: Re: Renewable Energy Stuff (was citizenship silliness) (fwd)

> I think you misunderstood.  They are claiming "gasoline equivalent
> gallons/acre" -- not that 1 gallon of hemp oil = 3 gallons of gasoline.
> And were not talking about "burning" hemp in that sense.  In this
> particular case were talking about hemp-based biodiesel.

How many gallons of gasoline can you raise on an acre?

Actualy the point I was trying to make is that it's comparing apples and
oranges. Until it's in a dollars/gallon for each of them format no real
worthwhile comparison can be made.

> Raising a full acre of hemp in that matter is something I don't have the
> data on.  However, hemp is widely known as a low-maintenance crop -- that
> translates little to no fertilizer.  After that we have the price of the
> land/month, servicing loans on the farm equipment, labor costs, taxes,
> energy, water etc.  Typical business overhead.   And for that 1000 galgas
> eq/acre.

Well don't forget crop rotation since the hemp is going to deplete the soil
if you simply grow three crops a year (which is possible this far south).
There is also the issue of water, hemp is a plant that needs lots of water
and is very sensitive to light levels/times, tempearture and pH. Hemp also
leeches nitrogen quite heavily.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Alia Johnson 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 17:17:15 +0800
To: Declan McCullagh 
Subject: Re: toto
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Declan, I did look up your stuff on the internet and thanks. I'm writing
to let you know that as of yesterday it has been 14 days since the court
(Judge Fior) ordered CJ moved to a psychiatric facility and they still
have not moved him. No one has heard from him for a few days. I talked to
him last week and he was okay but going through some hard times.

Bogart, the lawyer in Tucson, if he does not hear about CJ's move by
romorrow will request a hearing demanding what is going on. But the prison
is not cooperative in communicating even with him. Cj has apparently not
got it together to put me on the visitors list but he seems not to have
got my mail with my SS # etc. that the prison requires in order to let
visitors come. Then they spend ten days establishing that you're not a
criminal. Jesus.

Any the lawyer does think that he will be moved to Springfield. The family
is in terror that he will disappear into there or be committed for a long
time or for life. I have asked his Texas lawyer Dowling, just today,
whether we can retain him to represent Cj's interest with respect to what
is happening with the psychiatric evaluation, and haven't heard back from
him yet.

I am writing to ask you to help me: will you point me to information on
Springfield, its reputation, rules, accessibility of information on how
patients/inmates are being treated, etc.? Any information you can help me
locate would be very welcome.

Thanks.  Alia J

P.S. I saw the request for a picture/cd of music, whatever, I'll look.

Here are a couple of his porno country/western song titles:  "turning good
girls bad, most fun I ever had."  "I'll give you my heart, but my dick
belongs to mama." "there's no niggers left in Oakland, and all myh lies
are true."  C.J. also wrote some absolutely beautiful lyric songs, and of
course his classic "Jesus Lives in Garberville" about a dope raid on the
long-haired barefoot blissed-out guy living on the land....

What's your mailing address?

And thanks again for your help, and for contacting CJ. He was happy to
hear that we had talked. But I think he's not getting all his mail.

Alia

On Thu, 3 Sep 1998, Declan McCullagh wrote:

> I'd also be interested in seeing a copy of the RCMP page, on his old
> sympatico.ca/carljohn account.
> 
> -Declan
> 
> 
> On Thu, 3 Sep 1998, John Young wrote:
> 
> > I tried today to speak to Toto's attorney in Tucson, John Bogart 
> > (520-624-8196), and another in Texas supposedly involved, 
> > Larry Dowling (512-892-3393), but neither returned messages. 
> > Bogart's secretary later said he did not want to talk -- to me at least.
> > 
> > Next, I called the jail (520-868-3668) to get it's policy on 
> > contacting Toto. No incoming calls, he can call out. Mail to 
> > him okay:
> > 
> >    Carl Edward Johnson
> >    Inmate Number 05 98 7196
> >    CCA
> >    1155 North Dinal Parkway
> >    Florence, AZ 85232
> > 
> > Other reports, leads or news welcome. Anybody got a photo,
> > a CD of his music or hallelujahs? A mirror of his RCMP taunt?
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 14:40:44 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Dave Barry:  "Funny Money"
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Delivered-To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
X-Sender: believer@telepath.com
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 11:39:07 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com
From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Dave Barry:  "Funny Money"
Mime-Version: 1.0
Sender: owner-ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
Precedence: list
Reply-To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  Miami Herald
http://www.herald.com/archive/barry/archive/98sep06.htm

Published Friday, September 4, 1998, in the Miami Herald

Funny Money  By DAVE BARRY

 Recently I received a press release from the U.S. Treasury Department.
Naturally my first move was to verify, via chemical analysis, that it was
genuine. There has been a sharp increase in the number of counterfeit
Treasury Department press releases, as an embarrassed CNN found out last
month when it reported, incorrectly, that Federal Reserve Board Chairman
Alan Greenspan does all the voices on the popular cartoon show South Park.
(In fact, he does only Kenny and Mr. Hankey.)

 But this particular press release turned out to be authentic; it announced
that, this fall, we'll be seeing a new, redesigned $20 bill. This is part
of an anti-counterfeiting program to redesign all of our old currency,
which has become too easy to duplicate with modern color photocopiers -- a
fact that was made all too clear when the Xerox Corp., in its 1997 annual
report, reported profits of ``$850 trillion, mostly in 50s.''

 Why does counterfeit money represent a threat to the nation? And how can
we, as consumers, be sure that we have spelled ``counterfeit'' correctly?
To answer these questions, we need to understand exactly what money is, and
what makes it valuable.

 Back in ancient times, when people were much stupider than they are today,
there was no such thing as money. People transacted business by trading
actual, physical things. For example, if you sold a cow, the buyer would
pay for it by giving you, say, 14 physical ducks. Even in those days, that
was a lot of ducks to be carrying around, and the bank wouldn't let you
deposit them, because they fought with the chickens. Also the automatic
teller machines were disgusting.

 Finally, the ancient Egyptians got sick of this and invented the first
unit of paper currency, called the `simoleon.'' The way the Egyptians
explained the concept to their trading partners was: ``For your
convenience, we're going to start paying you with these pieces of paper,
which are valuable because they have a picture of Ulysses Grant.'' The
trading partners were not crazy about this concept, but they went along
with it, because the Egyptians had also invented spears.

 Today, the basic principle remains the same: We trust money because our
government stands behind it. A counterfeit $20 bill is a worthless piece of
paper backed by nothing; whereas a real $20 bill, issued by the Treasury
Department, has value, because any time you want, you can take it to Fort
Knox, site of the federal gold bullion depository, and exchange it, no
questions asked, for a duck. Try it yourself! If they give you any trouble,
mention my name, Art Buchwald.

 But the point is that, starting this fall, you're going to start seeing a
drastically redesigned $20 bill. Among the major changes are:

 -- To thwart would-be photocopiers, instead of saying ``TWENTY DOLLARS,''
the new $20 bills say ``FIFTEEN DOLLARS.''

 -- The Nike swoosh has been enlarged.

 -- The engraved portrait of Andrew Jackson has been given a new,
up-to-date hairstyle, patterned, according to the Treasury Department press
release, ``after Barry Manilow.'' President Jackson also has been given a
vivacious new facial expression that seems to say: ``I am looking good, and
I am READY TO PARTY with the engraved portraits on other currency
denominations!''

 -- On the back of the bill, in the engraving of the White House, on the
far right-hand side, in the engraved shrubbery, is a tiny crouching
engraving of Kenneth Starr.

 -- For verification purposes, the new bill is impregnated with plutonium
particles that emit a distinctive pattern of atomic radiation. ``This poses
absolutely no health danger whatsoever to humans,'' notes the Treasury
Department press release, which adds: ``Do not ever put the bill in your
pocket.''

 These improvements, plus the top-secret ``auto-detonate'' feature that I
am not allowed to mention in this column, will make the new $20 bill --
which is costing the government $348.50 per unit to manufacture -- the most
advanced anti-counterfeit currency in the world. But the whole effort will
be wasted unless you, the consumer, do your part by keeping a sharp eye out
for ``funny money.''

 The Treasury Department is asking that you regularly inspect all of your
bills, of all denominations. If you notice anything suspicious -- according
to the press release, this especially means ``foreign words, men in wigs,
strings of numbers, a greenish coloring or some kind of weird eyeball
floating over a pyramid'' -- you should immediately put the suspect bills
into an envelope and mail them to: The U.S. Treasury Department
Anti-Counterfeit Task Force, c/o Dave Barry, The Miami Herald, Miami, Fla.
33132. Please help. Only by joining together to fight this thing can we, as
a nation, buy me a giant mansion with servants and a lake. It will have
ducks. Thank you.

 Copyright (c) 1998 The Miami Herald

-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




**********************************************
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with the message:
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**********************************************
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--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 14:47:01 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: oil, greens, recycling, and poly-ticks.
Message-ID: <199809101948.PAA09931@panix7.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



   >   From: John Young 
   >
   >   8/25/98   Carl Johnson is defecating in his food tray...

No shit!

   >   From: Ray Arachelian 
   >
   >   Every toilet in our apt building was exchanged for one that supposedly
   >   saves water... it now takes an average of three flushes to sink a
   >   bowlful of turds... 

No shit!

   >   My math says that's a lot more wasted water than the single flush
   >   of the old toilet.

Solution: http://yournewhouse.com/mainFR3.htm
---guy




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 14:56:00 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: DCSB: Burning the Jolly Roger; Internet Anti-Piracy Technology
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Mime-Version: 1.0
X-Sender: rah@pop.sneaker.net
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 15:38:33 -0400
To: dcsb@ai.mit.edu, dcsb-announce@ai.mit.edu
From: Robert Hettinga 
Subject: DCSB: Burning the Jolly Roger; Internet Anti-Piracy Technology
Cc: Peter F Cassidy , Dan Geer ,
        Terry Symula , "Heffan, Ira" 
Sender: bounce-dcsb@ai.mit.edu
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: Robert Hettinga 

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----


             The Digital Commerce Society of Boston

                          Presents

                       Peter Cassidy
                          Founder,
                     TriArche Research

                  Burning the Jolly Roger:
         Can Anti-Piracy Technologies Make the Internet
            a Shrinkage-Free Commercial Platform?

                    Tuesday, October 6, 1998
                           12 - 2 PM
              The Downtown Harvard Club of Boston
                One Federal Street, Boston, MA




For most of this century, the fusion of intellectual property and media
was enough to ensure that its owners could reasonably be expected to
profit from its consumption.  Most people didn't have the means to lift
Ella Fitzgerald's music from her records, so fans of her music would
actually have to go out and buy her records.  Today, a high proportion of
ordinary households have the technical capacity at hand to take
recordings, visual or audio artifacts and executables, digitize them if
need be, and transmit it to millions of people overnight over the
Internet.  This state of affairs could signal the demise of the software
and entertainment industries.  Evolving almost as quickly as the
interlopers' sophistication in aquiring and distributing ill-gained wares,
however, are technical solutions to foil pirates, technologies of varying
potency and adaptability.

	Standard specifications for license management systems that
prevent unauthorized use of software have been drafted by the X/Open Group
this summer; watermarking systems and digital wrappers that allow
creatives to either mark or encapsulate images and sounds to frustrate
infringers have been on the market for the past few years; comprehensive
smart wrapper systems like InterTrust and C-dilla promise persistent
protection for all digital artifacts; and at least one system TriArche
Research Group has reviewed under NDA can prevent the most all
non-photographic copying of content presented in a Web browser.
Meanwhile, policing technologies like Online Monitoring Service's
WebSentry can locate pirated intellectual property on the Web and in
Usenet news groups.  None of these technologies are perfect but, as they
mature, they will make it far more difficult for infringers to take
control of intellectual property and to share it with their
contemporaries.  The Web might never lower its shrinkage rate to that of,
say, Wal-Mart but merchants in this medium already have many of the tools
they need to clean up this digital Barbary Coast.

Peter Cassidy is an IT industry writer and analyst at large:  Mr. Cassidy,
director of research at his own firm, TriArche Research Group, has engaged
consulting clients in North America and the Middle East.  As well, Mr.
Cassidy contracts as an information technology analyst with other
industrial research firms, researching topics as varied as network
security, multimedia applications and international telephony markets,
among them, Strategy Analytics, Giga Information Group, Decision
Resources, Dataquest, Business Research Group, The American Institute for
Business Research and CI-InfoCorp.  Mr. Cassidy writes under his own name
for international business publications and general readership magazines
such as  WIRED, Covert Action Quarterly, InformationWeek, CIO Magazine,
The Economist, Forbes ASAP, Software Developer & Publisher Magazine,
Silicon Strategies, The Texas Observer, The Progressive, Telepath
Magazine, American Banker, Datamation, Computerworld, World Trade
Magazine, and the National Security Institute Advisory.  Mr. Cassidy has
been interviewed about technology issues on several broadcast radio
programs in the United States and, appropriately enough, on C|Net Radio,
an international Internet-based audio network. His reportage on national
political affairs has been reprinted in college text books and
anthologies. He has also contracted as a consultant to syndicated
television magazine programs in the United States and Britain.


This meeting of the Digital Commerce Society of Boston will be held on
Tuesday, October 6, 1998, from 12pm - 2pm at the Downtown Branch of
the Harvard Club of Boston, on One Federal Street. The price for lunch
is $32.50. This price includes lunch, room rental, various A/V hardware,
and the speaker's lunch. ;-).  The Harvard Club *does* have dress code:
jackets and ties for men (and no sneakers or jeans), and "appropriate
business attire" (whatever that means), for women.  Fair warning: since
we purchase these luncheons in advance, we will be unable to refund the
price of your lunch if the Club finds you in violation of the dress
code.


We need to receive a company check, or money order, (or, if we
*really* know you, a personal check) payable to "The Harvard Club of
Boston", by Saturday, October 3rd, or you won't be on the list for
lunch.  Checks payable to anyone else but The Harvard Club of Boston
will have to be sent back.

Checks should be sent to Robert Hettinga, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston,
Massachusetts, 02131. Again, they *must* be made payable to "The
Harvard Club of Boston", in the amount of $32.50. Please include your
e-mail address, so that we can send you a confirmation

If anyone has questions, or has a problem with these arrangements
(We've had to work with glacial A/P departments more than once, for
instance), please let us know via e-mail, and we'll see if we can work
something out.


Upcoming speakers for DCSB are:

November   Dan Geer       TBA
December   Joseph DeFeo   TBA
January    Ira Heffan     Internet Software and Business Process Patents

We are actively searching for future speakers.  If you are in Boston
on the first Tuesday of the month, and you would like to make a
presentation to the Society, please send e-mail to the DCSB Program
Commmittee, care of Robert Hettinga, .


For more information about the Digital Commerce Society of Boston,
send "info dcsb" in the body of a message to  . If you want to subscribe to the DCSB e-mail
list, send "subscribe dcsb" in the body of a message to  .

We look forward to seeing you there!

Cheers,
Robert Hettinga
Moderator,
The Digital Commerce Society of Boston


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-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

For help on using this list (especially unsubscribing), send a message to
"dcsb-request@ai.mit.edu" with one line of text: "help".

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 15:54:58 +0800
To: Michael Motyka 
Subject: Re: Happy Fourth of July ( was : Re: Citizenship silliness.  Re: e$: crypto-expatriatism (fwd))
In-Reply-To: <35F83878.62D5@lsil.com>
Message-ID: <199809102054.QAA26964@domains.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In <35F83878.62D5@lsil.com>, on 09/10/98 
   at 01:37 PM, Michael Motyka  said:

>Don't you think this conversation should be continued on some AOL forum? 

You mean this *isn't* an AOL forum!?!

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: For a good time, call 1-800-3IBMOS2

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 18:08:12 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com
Subject: Re: Happy Fourth
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <35F85C94.6A55@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I'm -almost- ready to admit defeat and move on.

> Did you see the part where I mention that I am (a) an ex-marine,
IMHO Marines burn just like the rest of us wimps. They just don't scream
as much.

> You ever seen 3000 gallons of jet fuel burn,
AOED the biggest fire I've seen was the fire here in CA last month. 6-8
Million tires. Nobody had the balls to put that one out. At peak 1000X
your jet fuel deal. Scary. Very.

> 5 gals. of burning gasoline is NOT a problem. 
ISASI ( it sure as shit is ) if you're wearing it on your back. 

> 5 Gals. cooking off in a sealed container IS a problem.
FYI 5 ounces mixed with compressed air in a metal container could easily
be fatal.

> Fuck you.
Yes, yes, PTMYT ( pleased to meet you too ).

Remember, shit draws flies. There'll just be more geniuses asking how to
make noncryptographic devices. I would enjoy some crypto-tech talk.
Found any cool primitive polynomials lately? Got a good block cipher
with a 4096 bit block size and an even bigger key space? Got some time
to donate to actually put together some good HW/SW systems?

Mike




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 15:39:36 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: oil, greens, recycling, and poly-ticks.
In-Reply-To: <199809101948.PAA09931@panix7.panix.com>
Message-ID: <199809102039.QAA06951@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Ray's a much too delicate a cpunk to report what going on
with low-flow toilets in NYC. Most of us close the lid, kick
the lever fleeing the stench, which jiggles the muck a bit, 
leaves it for the next hold-breath lid lifter, who figures that's 
what Guiliani has ordered the lifestyle cops.

Trainspotting-type diving for the good stuff is the practice
in Manhattan's best clubs, where Brut reigns, and Carl's 
seasonings show the way to theme prison food franchising, 
emulating the CEO who Julia Childed the airline food cart.

Let me tell later about The Harvard Club of NY's kitchen inability
to pass a health inspection since the Depression. Having surveyed
it recently DN and me toyed with the DCSNY's lunch there, other 
swell-suited cpunks wolfed it like CJ had pronounced it A-OK.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 17:03:01 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Renewable Energy Stuff (was citizenship silliness) (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199809102014.PAA06141@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 3:14 PM -0500 9/10/98, Jim Choate wrote:
>Forwarded message:
>> I think you misunderstood.  They are claiming "gasoline equivalent
>> gallons/acre" -- not that 1 gallon of hemp oil = 3 gallons of gasoline.
>> And were not talking about "burning" hemp in that sense.  In this
>> particular case were talking about hemp-based biodiesel.
>
>How many gallons of gasoline can you raise on an acre?
>Actualy the point I was trying to make is that it's comparing apples and
>oranges. Until it's in a dollars/gallon for each of them format no real
>worthwhile comparison can be made.

	No, the point is can enough be raised in this country to meet the
needs of the transportation industry in the near and mid term (anything
longer than 10 to 15 years out couldn't be predicted with accuracy anyway).

>> Raising a full acre of hemp in that matter is something I don't have the
>> data on.  However, hemp is widely known as a low-maintenance crop -- that
>> translates little to no fertilizer.  After that we have the price of the
>> land/month, servicing loans on the farm equipment, labor costs, taxes,
>> energy, water etc.  Typical business overhead.   And for that 1000 galgas
>> eq/acre.
>
>Well don't forget crop rotation since the hemp is going to deplete the soil
>if you simply grow three crops a year (which is possible this far south).
>There is also the issue of water, hemp is a plant that needs lots of water
>and is very sensitive to light levels/times, tempearture and pH. Hemp also
>leeches nitrogen quite heavily.

	Nitrogen is easy to replace, as long as you don't mind a few
tagants in the soil, and don't buy your diesel at the same place...

petro@playboy.com----for work related issues. I don't speak for Playboy.
petro@bounty.org-----for everthing else.      They wouldn't like that.
                                              They REALLY
Economic speech IS political speech.          wouldn't like that.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 17:03:09 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com>
Subject: Re: Happy Fourth of July ( was : Re: Citizenship silliness.  Re:e$: crypto-expatriatism (fwd))
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 3:37 PM -0500 9/10/98, Michael Motyka wrote:
>Happy Fourth of July! and how did this thread start?
>Petro wrote:
>>         I'd also suggest using a water extinguisher, the kind you can
>> refill/recharge yourself. There are some out there, the big silver kind
>> where you can unscrew the top and fill with your liquid of choice, then
>> presurize with  a tire pump. As an aside, one _could_ fill these with a
>> combination of gasoline and a gelling agent to make a short range flame
>> thrower, not that that would be a smart or safe thing to do (really, there
>> wouldn't be much to keep the flame from wandering back up inside the
>> cylinder, and haveing it explode in your hands would make it very hard to
>> type...).
>Actually these things are usually inverted so that the liquid is fed out
>from the bottom so the hose probably won't act like a fuse. At least

	Some are, some aren't. depends on the age.

>until the liquid runs out and there is a combustible pathway into the
>container. If you try this one could you get someone to videotape it
>from a safe distance? It would make a great AVI for an 'anarchists on
>the web' site.

	Ummm, I live in the middle of Chicago, I don't think it's going to
be anytime soon.

>At least mention nitrogen or helium.

	Yeah, but it's harder to get than Air, which can be done with a
bicycle pump.

>But COMPRESSED_AIR + GASOLINE?
>Are you one nut short of a matched pair?
>Gasoline scares the hell out of me. It should you.

	Did you see the part where I mention that I am (a) an ex-marine,
and that (b) whilst in the Marine Corpse I was in Aircraft Firefighting and
Rescue? You ever seen 3000 gallons of jet fuel burn, and it was your job to
get up close and personal with a fire hose.

	5 gals. of burning gasoline is NOT a problem. 5 Gals. cooking off
in a sealed container IS a problem.

>You don't live anywhere near me do you?

	You live in S.F. right?

>You should try baking bread instead.

	Boring.

>Don't you think this conversation should be continued on some AOL forum?

	Fuck you.

petro@playboy.com----for work related issues. I don't speak for Playboy.
petro@bounty.org-----for everthing else.      They wouldn't like that.
                                              They REALLY
Economic speech IS political speech.          wouldn't like that.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 19:06:38 +0800
To: coderpunks@toad.com
Subject: ANNOUNCE: Bay Area Cypherpunks, Sat. Sept. 12, 12-6, KPMG Mountain View
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980910170625.00cd8ec0@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



The Septembre Bay Area Cypherpunks Meeting will be Saturday from 12-6,
at KPMG, 500 E. Middlefield Rd., Mountain View, with the organized part
beginning at 1:00.

IPSEC - Hugh Daniel will talk about the latest IPSEC Free/SWAN work
Crypto 98 - Various people will talk about what they saw at the conference.

Dinner after the meeting will be at some restaurant on Castro St. Mtn.View.

Directions: KPMG is a relatively-unmarked building at the corner of
Middlefield Rd. and Ellis St. in Mountain View, surrounded by Netscape.
The lobby entrance is on the Ellis St. side.  
The Ellis exit on 101 is between 85 and 237.

http://www.mapblast.com/mapblast/blast.hm?CMD=MAP&GC=X%3A-122.05265%7CY%3A37.39603%7CLT%3A37.39603%7CLN%3A-122.05265%7CLS%3A20000%7Cc%3AMountain_View%7Cs%3ACA%7Cz%3A94043%7Cd%3A807%7Cp%3AUSA&LV=3&IC=37.39603%3A37.39603&IC=5&IC%3A=KPMG&GAD2=500+E+Middlefield+Rd&GAD3=Mountain+View%2C+CA++94043-4008&W=600&H=350&MA=1&zoom.x=28&zoom.y=172

Probable speaker for October - Sue Bardakos from Entrust

-----------
Mailing list administrivia - this announcement has been sent to
	cypherpunks@algebra.com
	cypherpunks-announce@toad.com
	coderpunks@toad.com
	cryptography@c2.net
If you want to get off one of the lists, send mail to
	listname-request@machine.domain   (probably majordomo!)
for the listserver that sent you the mail.
-----------

				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Rabid Wombat 
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 12:41:05 +0800
To: David Honig 
Subject: Re: U.S. House only has a T-1
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980912091319.007cca60@m7.sprynet.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





On Sat, 12 Sep 1998, David Honig wrote:

> :: 
> Anon-To: Tim May , Jim Burnes , Declan
> McCullagh 
> 
> At 12:12 PM 9/11/98 -0700, Tim May wrote:
> >details about Clinton's cigar being inserted into Monica's vagina, about
> >how Clinton talked with Congressional leaders while Monica was giving him a
> >blowjob, and how Clinton suborned perjury and tampered with evidence....
> 
> There's a footnote that mentions oral-anal sex.  Perhaps in DC this
> is a crime?
> 
> 

If kissing an asshole is a crime, they'd have to lock up the whole city.

Besides, where else can you get caught on tape smoking crack with a 
hooker, and still get re-elected mayor?




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ulf@fitug.de (Ulf =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=F6ller?=)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 10:38:51 +0800
To: proff@iq.org (Julian Assange)
Subject: Re: cypherpunks archive
In-Reply-To: <19980910100541.10897.qmail@iq.org>
Message-ID: <199809101539.RAA59090@public.uni-hamburg.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> I'm looking for a/the cypherpunks archive, particularly one that
> covers 92-present. infinity.nus.sg doesn't seem to work anymore.

I don't there is a complete archive on the web at the moment.

http://calvo.teleco.ulpgc.es/listas/cypherpunks@infonex.com
has an archive for 1997 and 1998.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: AIMSX@aol.com
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 17:18:07 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Forwarded mail....
Message-ID: <4cb4c748.35f84ccc@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I truly hope you don't stereotype all AOL users for this idiot's insane
ramblings.
Unfortunately, some people are just morons, but you get them on every ISP
anyway, they just aren't so obvious on others, because unfortunately, AOL
makes it easier to communicate.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Greg Broiles 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 20:56:59 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Mercury-News article tries to link crypto export, Africa bombings
Message-ID: <199809110200.TAA22774@ideath.parrhesia.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Standard four-horsemen stuff; see
. I couldn't find any
actual connection between the Africa bombings and crypto (or crypto
export), but the FBI and their pet congresspeople are much too smart to get
bogged down in a discussion of actual facts. 


--
Greg Broiles        |History teaches that 'Trust us'
gbroiles@netbox.com |is no guarantee of due process.
                    |_Kasler v. Lundgren_, 98 CDOS 1581
                    |(March 4, 1998)




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: OSCAR 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 12:15:26 +0800
To: fight-censorship@vorlon.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Child-Molesting Forger's Chilling Confession!!!1!
Message-ID: <199809101715.TAA14309@everest.u-grenoble3.fr>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: application/x-www-form-urlencoded

application/www-form-urlencoded


From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: OSCAR 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 12:15:00 +0800
To: fight-censorship@vorlon.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Child-Molesting Forger's Chilling Confession!!!1!
Message-ID: <199809101715.TAA14312@everest.u-grenoble3.fr>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: application/x-www-form-urlencoded

application/www-form-urlencoded


From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 21:24:08 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: RE: radio net (fwd)
Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A19284643@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




BTW, is all this talk about rules for specific frequencies dedicated to
amateur radio?

Why not use some of the frequency ranges that were recently opened up
for unlicensed SS/RF use? 

	Matt (who sends encrypted traffic over the airwaves with his
Ricochet modem)




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: announce@lp.org (by way of "Edwin E. Smith" )
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 18:58:09 +0800
To: theforum@lists.execpc.com
Subject: Release: Constitution Museum
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980910195404.00803d30@mailhost.IntNet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

=======================================
NEWS FROM THE LIBERTARIAN PARTY
2600 Virginia Avenue, NW, Suite 100
Washington DC 20037
=======================================
For release: September 9, 1998
=======================================
For additional information:
George Getz, Press Secretary
Phone: (202) 333-0008 Ext. 222
E-Mail: 76214.3676@Compuserve.com
=======================================


Forget ignorant teenagers: Let's send
politicians to the Constitution Museum

        WASHINGTON, DC -- Philadelphia Mayor Ed Rendell's plan to build
a museum dedicated to the Constitution should be approved, the
Libertarian Party says -- provided that every Congressman and Senator
is required to take classes there.

        "Educating ordinary Americans about freedom and individual
rights is important, but educating politicians is absolutely
essential -- because only they have the power to write laws that
threaten your life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness," said Ron
Crickenberger, national director of the Libertarian Party.

        Crickenberger's comments came in response to Rendell's request
to the Senate Appropriations Committee last week for $65 million to pay
half the cost of a museum designed to educate Americans about the
Constitution.

        To buttress his argument that Americans are "ignorant about
government," Rendell cited a survey of 600 teenagers showing that more
of them could name the Three Stooges (59%) than could name the three
branches of government (41%), and that while 74% could name the city
where cartoon character Bart Simpson lives (Springfield), just 12% know
where Abraham Lincoln lived (Springfield).

        Building the museum in Philadelphia, Rendell said, would help
reverse "the tide of ignorance" that is "absolutely critical to the
health of our democracy."

        Crickenberger countered: "First we need to reverse the tide of
ignorance in Congress. After all, in just the last two years, these
politicians have violated the First Amendment by trying to censor the
Internet, flouted the Second Amendment by passing the Lautenberg
gun-control law, and made a mockery of the Fifth Amendment by quietly
creating a massive federal database of every employee in America,
mandating fingerprints for drivers licenses, and imposing a national ID
card.

        "Politicians who habitually violate the Constitution themselves
have no business lecturing ordinary Americans on this subject. Instead,
they should practice what they preach -- and be the first ones in line
when the National Center on the Constitution opens in Philadelphia.

        "And instead of hitting up taxpayers for $65 million, members
of Congress should pay for it out of their own pockets, or by
abolishing some of the unconstitutional agencies they have created,"
Crickenberger said.

        For example, he noted, the Pennsylvania delegation could urge
Congress to come up with the money by:

        * Knocking out every unconstitutional pork-barrel project that
Rep. Bud Shuster quietly inserted into the $217 billion highway bill
that Congress passed in March, such as $800,000 to renovate a historic
train station at Gettysburg and $500,000 for a study on sidewalks at
the Kennedy Center.

        * Trimming the $65 billion corporate welfare budget by
one-tenth of one percent.

        * Earmarking just 25% of the paycheck of every Senator and
Congressional representative -- and every Capitol Hill staffer making
over $100,000 -- for a single session of Congress.

        * Eliminating just one of the hundreds of unconstitutional
federal agencies Congress has created, such as the National Endowment
for the Arts, which has a budget of $100 million a year.

        Then, after attending classes at this museum, members of
Congress should have one other requirement, said Crickenberger.

        "Before graduating from their class on the Constitution, these
politicians should be required to prove their knowledge by repealing
every unconstitutional law they ever passed," he said. "That's the best
way to set an example for American teenagers -- and it doesn't require
building another museum in Philadelphia."


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The Libertarian Party                                      http://www.lp.org/
2600 Virginia Ave. NW, Suite 100                          voice: 202-333-0008
Washington DC 20037                                         fax: 202-333-0072

For subscription changes, please mail to  with the
word "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" in the subject line -- or use the WWW form.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Dave Brown 
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 01:28:25 +0800
To: Ray Arachelian 
Subject: Re: oil, greens, recycling, and poly-ticks.
In-Reply-To: <199809092123.OAA17355@leroy.fbn.bc.ca>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19980910205225.0096d7d0@alaska.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Ray Arachelian typethed the following...
>
>Raymond D. Mereniuk wrote:



>
>What pisses me off is that in NYC the gas prices are ridiculous high...
>$1.35/Gal is the regular gas, drive just a few miles over a tunnel or bridge 
>to n NJ, it's $1.00 or $.99 depending on which pump you hit...  go a bit
south,
>say VA, and in some areas it drops as low as $0.87 a gallon!
>
>Shit, if it weren't for the tolls and the drive, I'd be getting my gas out of
>NYC all the time, but doing so wastes enough and costs enough in tolls to not
>make it worth the effort...
>
>Just out of curiosity what are prices around where you guys live?

Prices in Anchorage are about $1.15 in the summer and $1.30-5 when the
tourists leave. And we have all the oil you can use and a bunch of
refinery's up here. 
We get shafted nearly as bad as you do.





 --Dave

Lucidity Paradox:  Explain a concept in sufficient detail, and it will
become clearer and clearer until it eventually disappears.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 20:07:45 +0800
To: Alia Johnson 
Subject: Springfield Medical Center
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199809110107.VAA23558@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Alia,

Thanks for the update on CJ. Please keep us informed. More on
CJ's music and how to get it, and help promote it, would be
welcomed. It sounds wonderfully rude and vulgar, all right!

Below is a 1994 thumbnail description of the U.S. Medical Center 
for Federal Prisoners in Springfield, Missouri, taken from a long, 
critical report on prisoner health care with more on the Springfield
facility available at:

   http://jya.com/hehs-94-36.txt (81K)

Bureau of Prisons Health Care: Inmates' Access to Health Care Is Limited
by Lack of Clinical Staff (Letter Report, 02/10/94, GAO/HEHS-94-36).

[Excerpt]

SPRINGFIELD MEDICAL REFERRAL CENTER

   MISSION OF REFERRAL CENTER

The U.S. Medical Center for Federal Prisoners in Springfield,
Missouri, is one of the Bureau of Prisons' six referral centers that
treat male medical, surgical, and mental health patients.

   LOCATION AND CONDITION OF FACILITY

The Springfield Medical Referral Center is an administrative
facility, meaning it is equipped to house inmates of all security
levels.  It was built about 1933.  Inmates live in six connected
buildings, each of two or three stories.  The medical facilities are
concentrated in four of the six buildings.  The acute and chronic
care medical and surgical patients are housed in units that resemble
typical hospital rooms, except that several rooms in each unit have
locked doors.  These locked cells are used for patients who are (1)
dangerous to staff or other inmates, (2) participating in the federal
witness protection program, or (3) waiting for their custody status
to be determined.  The mental health patients are housed in units
that resemble typical prison cell blocks with one-man cells.

Springfield also has a unit that can contain up to 37 inmates in
individual locked cells for disciplinary or protective reasons.

   NUMBER OF INMATES AND PATIENTS SERVED

Springfield serves approximately 1,120 inmates, including 439
patients who require medical or surgical care and 294 who need
psychiatric care.  The medical and surgical care is provided to about
46 acute care patients, 54 patients receiving renal dialysis, and 393
other chronic or recovering patients.  The mental health population
includes 177 treatment patients and 117 forensic inmates who are
being evaluated for their mental ability to stand trial.

   NUMBER AND TYPE OF MEDICAL BEDS

The Joint Commission on Accreditation of Healthcare Organizations
rates Springfield as a 46-bed acute care and 177-bed mental health
hospital.

   NUMBER AND TYPE OF STAFF POSITIONS AUTHORIZED 
   AND FILLED

In July 1993, Springfield had 279 authorized health care positions,
including 5 psychiatrists, 15 medical/surgical physicians, an
optometrist, 12 physician assistants, 127 nurses, 9 pharmacists, 12
psychologists, 6 quality assurance staff, 10 medical records staff,
and 82 other health care staff.  At that time, 18 positions were
vacant, including 3 medical physicians, a surgeon, a psychiatrist, a
physician assistant, 10 nurses, 1 medical records staff, and 1 other
health care staff.  The following specialists were working at
Springfield:  3 general practitioners, 4 psychiatrists, 2 internists, 
2 neurologists, 1 physiatrist, 1 anesthesiologist, 1 orthopedic 
surgeon, and 1 chief of health programs.

Physicians and physician assistants are available 24 hours a day.
However, physicians generally work from 7:30 a.m.  to 4:00 p.m.
During the evening and night shifts and on weekends, one physician,
one psychiatrist, and one psychologist are on call.  Physician
assistants are available in the facility 16 hours a day.  Nurses are
responsible for medical care between 10:00 p.m.  and 6:00 a.m.
Nursing service is provided 24 hours a day.

   STAFF ORGANIZATION

The Associate Warden for Medical Services supervises most of
Springfield's health care staff, including nurses and technicians.
The Clinical Director is responsible for the internal medicine
physicians, psychiatrists, surgeons, dentists, physician assistants,
the quality assurance coordinator, utilization manager, and
infection-control practitioners.  The Associate Warden for Mental
Health Services is responsible for the psychologists and social
workers who work with the mental health patients.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 20:23:19 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Impossible Analysis Paper at Crypto98
Message-ID: <199809110124.VAA25687@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



There's talk of a paper given at Crypto98 on "Impossible
Differential Analysis" which got the NSA people scribbling
like mad taking notes as though this was something that
had never come up at the agency and they'd better get
right on it.

Roughly, as I heard it (and I may be way off), the premise is 
that instead of using differential analysis for finding weaknesses 
in a cipher, to flip that to determine what could not possibly be 
a weakness in a cipher and build one with just those attributes.

Is this report correct, and is there a source for that paper?






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Technical Incursion Countermeasures 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 08:40:33 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: CFP: The Insider December 1998 edition
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980910213019.009f3250@localhost>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Call for Papers

The Insider - December 1998 edition

The Insider (http://www.ticm.com/info/insider/index.html) has been in
publication since November 1997. Since then it has gone trough a number of
changes - all for the better :}. The latest change is to move from a
newletter containing just the musing of its editor to a "learned journal".
Yes, the papers will be refereed and the editorial board has some weight in
the IT security world.

On that note this is the first Call for papers.

We are looking for papers on Information Technology Security and fitting
within the following broad areas: Audit, Design and Maintenance of IT
Security.

The Papers can be from 1000 to 2500 words. We may accept papers of down to
600 words or up to 5000 words but they will have to be of the utmost quality. 

For more information see http://www.ticm.com/info/insider/current.html 

Yours 

Bret Watson - Editor
Technical Incursion Countermeasures 
consulting@TICM.COM                      http://www.ticm.com/
ph: (+61)(041) 4411 149(UTC+8 hrs)      fax: (+61)(08) 9454 6042

The Insider - a e'zine on Computer security - August Edition out
http://www.ticm.com/info/insider/index.html




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 21:35:51 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: radio net
In-Reply-To: <199809091239.HAA15369@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Hey, guys,

Someone here already said it, but nobody else got it, so I'll repeat it:
SSB, or Single Sideband. It's commercial ham radio, if you will, and all
the ships use it. I expect that you can shove anything down an SSB set that
you want, including encrypted traffic.

Ham radio is a government nerd subsidy, and as such, doesn't do much but
make more government funded/sactioned/approved/whatever nerds. :-).

SSB would do just fine. It's an international standard, after all, and
probably not under the control of any one government, even.e

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 22:16:20 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: radio net (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809110337.WAA08744@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 22:28:02 -0400
> From: Robert Hettinga 
> Subject: Re: radio net

> Someone here already said it, but nobody else got it, so I'll repeat it:
> SSB, or Single Sideband. It's commercial ham radio, if you will, and all
> the ships use it. I expect that you can shove anything down an SSB set that
> you want, including encrypted traffic.
> 
> Ham radio is a government nerd subsidy, and as such, doesn't do much but
> make more government funded/sactioned/approved/whatever nerds. :-).
> 
> SSB would do just fine. It's an international standard, after all, and
> probably not under the control of any one government, even.e

Single-sideband (SSB) isn't an international standard, it's a physical
effect.

See:

The Art of Electronics
Horowitz, Hill
ISBN 0-521-37095-7
pp. 897


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 23:40:25 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Revenge of the AOLHoles
In-Reply-To: <199809110152.DAA09397@replay.com>
Message-ID: <199809110441.AAA00735@domains.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In <199809110152.DAA09397@replay.com>, on 09/11/98 
   at 03:52 AM, Anonymous  said:

>Now maybe this stuff is good marketting practice, but it's a lousy way to
>serve the community which gives them life.

The saddest thing about advertizing: It works. :(

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: I went window shopping...and bought OS/2!

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: HyperReal-Anon 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 19:08:33 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: No Subject
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980909005149.0081d100@mail.xroads.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>>>>> Soren   writes:

  > What about SSB?

  >> FCC regulations prohibit amateur radio services from carrying
  >> either encrypted OR commercial traffic.

SSB modulation hardly counts as encryption. (?!)
CFR 47  says:

97.113 Prohibited transmissions.

(a) No amateur station shall transmit:

  (1) Communications specifically prohibited elsewhere in this part;

  (2) Communications for hire or for material compensation...

  (3) Communications in which the station licensee or control operator
  has a pecuniary interest...

  (4) Music using a phone emission except as specifically provided
  elsewhere in this section; communications intended to facilitate a
  criminal act; messages in codes or ciphers intended to obscure the
  meaning thereof, except as otherwise provided herein; obscene or
  indecent words or language; or false or deceptive messages, signals
  or identification;

  (5) Communications...which could reasonably be furnished
  alternatively through other radio services.

[snip]

97.117 International communications. 

Transmissions to a different country, where permitted, shall be made
in plain language and shall be limited to messages of a technical
nature relating to tests, and, to remarks of a personal character for
which, by reason of their unimportance, recourse to the public
telecommunications service is not justified.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 02:40:44 +0800
To: Tim May 
Subject: Re: If there's a trial will some of us be witnesses?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199809110742.AAA07729@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




hmmmm, I doubt carl johnson will claim he is innocent. or
has he? the trial is only necessary if he doesn't plead
guilty. depending on his lawyer & the evidence, that seems likely to
me if he was involved. there aren't any cpunks with the 
resources to take on uncle sam, except maybe... 

seriously, though, it's fun to fantasize. it would certainly
be the trial of the century. better than unabomber & oj
simpson combined. 

that reminds me.. before they caught him I always thought
the unabomber was probably on the cpunk list. I was quite
surprised when his antitechnology rant came out. he's got
the rant part down, but not the technology part!!

at one time, kevin mitnick was on this list, rumor has
it. probably many of the world's premiere hackers have been at one time or
another.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: phelix@vallnet.com
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 19:43:23 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: radio net (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199809091239.HAA15369@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <35f871f9.173776779@news>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On 10 Sep 1998 17:51:31 -0500, Greg Broiles  wrote:

>If you want to know what crypto regs and net use regs are going to look
>like in 10-20 years, look at the amateur radio regs now - we'll have
>citizens' committees (similar to the "block leaders" on GeoCities) who stay
>up late at night, unpaid, watching their fellow subjects for signs of
>pseudonym use, or the use of unlicensed/unapproved crypto, or "unlicensed
>Internet broadcasting".

Are we already seing this, with CAUCE and USENET II?  Good users are known
users (... and if it stops just one spammer...)

-- Phelix




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 02:56:46 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Bits are Bits
In-Reply-To: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A1928463C@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 1:54 PM -0700 9/10/98, Matthew James Gering wrote:
>> Um, actualy not. It is actualy illegal for me to allow you to
>> borrow my books, CD's, albums, etc.
>
>Uh, how so? Distribution copyright covers first-sale only, after that
>the owner can lend or sell that item. If it were not for this, public
>and private libraries could not exist.

Several misc. points. Perhaps related, but I don't have the time to try to
figure out all the relations.

* Books: OK to resell. OK to lend. May or may not be OK to rent.

* Recorded music: OK to resell. OK to lend to private parties for
noncommercial use. NOT OK to rent.

* Recorded videos: OK to resell, OK to lend to private parties for
noncommercial use, OK to rent. (There are video rental stores, but not CD
rental stores.)

* Software: OK to resell if license allows it, if original is destroyed, if
no copies are kept, blah blah blah. (Very complicated.) Not legal to rent
software since around the mid-80s, when software rental stores stopped.

* It is not illegal under the Act passed by Congress authorizing a blank
media tax. (I think it was called the Home Recording Act, or somesuch.
Circa 1992-4.) The Act requires that blank tapes be taxed and then says
that "noncommercial use" is declared to be legal. In other words, the
government is collecting money from us and says as a result we get to tape
stuff for our own use.

* I myself have taped about 600 CDs and DATs, digitally taped onto DAT. (I
use a Sony home deck for some purposes, a Sony DATMAN for others, and a
Tascam DA-P1 portable for others. The Tascam is neat in that it ignores the
SCMS bits and thus allows unlimited DAT-to-DAT copying.) A friend of mine
has taped over 4500 recordings...he's a bit obsessive about his library of
"free" music. He uses public libraries to get a dozen or so CDs at a pop,
then loads them into a carousel player and records for 3-5 hours each
night, and often during the day.

* There is talk that the Bern Convention, which the U.S. recently signed,
overrides this Home Recording Act (or whatever the title was).

* As to public and private libraries, I think the situation is much more
unsettled than Matthew makes out:

-- lending (and presumably rental?) of books is allowed, by convention.

-- rental of software is no longer allowed (court case?)...it seems to have
ended around 1984 or so, when the software rental place near me announced
it could no longer rent software titles

-- rental of CDs is not apparently allowed...but sales of used CDs
are...and liberal return policies on new CDs are common (defacto rental).
The music store chain, "Wherehouse," was involved in a major court case on
this several years ago. I presume from their continued sale of used CDs
that they won. (The case may have involved whether record labels could
refuse to sell to them, a choice I would of course support, in a free
society.)

-- rental of videos is allowed. (Why videos but not CDs? What about books
on tape? What about books on CD, either audio or CD-ROM?)

Anyway, I can discern no clear point here. It all seems hodge podge.

* Just today I was at a store which was selling many copies of major
programs at deep, deep discounts. A set of "used" installation diskettes
for Microsoft's "Excel" was selling for $24.95. And so on. There is little
enforcement of laws supposedly stopping this.

* There is no ipso facto reason why a book publisher could not require as a
condition of sale that no resales, rental, or lendings occur with the
publisher's permission. In fact, some have argued for this.

* If the courts intervene to say such restrictions are not allowable, how
can such restrictions exist for software? (Sure, the usual and tired
"replicability" argument. But a publisher and author are "losing" just as
much when a bestseller is rented or lent out a dozen times instead of
generating sales....)

In closing, it's all a hodge podge. Books are just bits. Saying one set of
bits may be lent out, but another set may not is not a stable solution.

And we all know what cyberspace is doing to all of these points.

--Tim May

(This space left blank pending determ. of acceptability to the gov't.)
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 02:46:36 +0800
To: "Ivan Cypherpunk" 
Subject: Re: Joe Cypherpunk
In-Reply-To: <199809091200.IAA18283@www.video-collage.com>
Message-ID: <199809110747.AAA08019@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



wow, a new site called sixdegrees.com, in which everyone
registers and reveals who their friends are. the privacy
implications are really incredible. yet supposedly
close to 1 million people joined, with 900,000 of them
connected!!

 wow!! boy, it sure would be interesting to
write software that analyzed this data.

 reminds me of another program someone wrote that looked
up proper nouns in the ciabase database, I think, and
showed the relationships. probably the kind of software
that intelligence agencies use all the time. pretty sophisticated.

amazing what the information revolution is bringing. in
many ways, extraordinary things can be done merely by
sloshing information around in creative ways. no one
has really predicted some of the coolest stuff that
is happening.

wheeeeeeee!!! cyberspace is so much fun!!!




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Dave Emery 
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 00:09:08 +0800
To: Bill Stewart 
Subject: Re: radio net (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A19284623@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
Message-ID: <19980911010325.B10226@die.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Thu, Sep 10, 1998 at 01:57:46PM -0700, Bill Stewart wrote:

> 
> But that doesn't mean there isn't a strong demand for voice privacy -
> just that the average consumer is satisfied having _some_ privacy,
> enough to keep casual observers out and neighbors from stealing phone service,
> and either doesn't believe the police would illegaly wiretap _him_,
> or (more cynically) doesn't believe the cellphone is enough protection
> if they do decide to target him.
> 
> 
	And it clearly isn't.   With the exception of cellphone to
cellphone traffic on one providers system (especially if it is GSM) the
traffic gets sent in the clear over trunking which is not particularly
well protected (and on occasion over microwave backhauls from cell sites
in the clear), to wire line phones which are often very vulnerable to
wiretaps.  And all of these are subject to CALEA access, and many also
to various  subrosa access via mechanisms provided for test and
maintainence and remote configuration of the system and trouble
diagnosis (mechanisms well and trully exploited by phreakers over the
years and well known and understood by the spooks as well).

	Without end to end encryption with secure key material the
security of any phone is weak at best, link encryption of vulnerable
links such as RF paths will keep the nosey out and raise the bar enough
so as to discourage that kind of penetration by professionals, but if
the call goes through switching and trunking infrastructure in the clear
it is  hardly difficult for large and powerful organizations to get
there hands on it if they really need it...

	And of course if they really get desparate, they can bug
the area the conversation is taking place in... or even the phones...


-- 
	Dave Emery N1PRE,  die@die.com  DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass. 
PGP fingerprint = 2047/4D7B08D1 DE 6E E1 CC 1F 1D 96 E2  5D 27 BD B0 24 88 C3 18




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 03:11:39 +0800
To: John Young 
Subject: Re: Impossible Analysis Paper at Crypto98
In-Reply-To: <199809110124.VAA25687@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <199809110813.BAA09626@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



a proof that you have an unbreakable cypher has a lot
of implications to the P=?NP question. if the analysis
is novel and elegant, than it might very well leads to
insights into P=?NP of computer science.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 03:35:12 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: [FP] Smart Cards -- Public Acceptance?
Message-ID: <199809110836.BAA10995@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: "ScanThisNews" 
Subject: IP: [FP] Smart Cards -- Public Acceptance?
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 22:07:48 -0500
To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com

======================================================================
SCAN THIS NEWS
9/9/98

=======================================================================

New Poll: 76% Indicate Interest in Smart Cards

 SAN FRANCISCO--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Sept. 9, 1998--

 Smart Card Forum research study seeks keys to market success, ways to
bridge the gap between early adopters and the mainstream consumer market

 The Smart Card Forum (SCF), a multi-industry organization working to
accelerate the widespread acceptance of smart card technology, today
announced some initial top-line poll results of a qualitative and
quantitative research study it has commissioned. A detailed analysis of the
comprehensive study will be finalized in tandem with the Forum's Work Group
meetings this November in Florida.

 The Forum is attempting to better understand what North American consumers
would like in a smart card that they could carry around with them that
stores information or value (or both) from various applications (e.g.,
health care, insurance, banking, loyalty programs). These applications are
just some of what a smart card can do (the technology has many more
applications), but a study of how consumers perceive them will help the
industry better understand the potential size and shape of the future market
for smart card technology.

 "The smart card is a very exciting and powerful emerging technology," says
Forum President William J. Barr. "To extend its promise into the mainstream
commercial marketplace means understanding and then delivering what
consumers want. After all, it's a basic marketing premise that you have to
understand the public's needs before you can deliver a solution that will
win their support and loyalty. Previous Forum market research has shown
consumer interest in our industry; this next wave of research is designed to
provide us with more specific information that we can apply to the task of
introducing smart cards to the broadest possible consumer audience."

 FIND/SVP, a nationally known New York-based research and consulting firm,
was asked by the Forum to design the research study to capture consumer
perceptions of smart cards and the keys to their acceptance and use. To do
this, they designed a qualitative (14 focus groups) and quantitative
(telephone survey of 2,400) research study(a) conducted in the United States
and Canada. It was tightly focused to determine certain attributes of smart
cards, which applications would be supported and why, plus servicing,
branding, and pricing issues.

 For the purposes of the research, a very specific "smart card concept" was
developed and tested. It was described as a "card-sized unit with a memory
that can hold just about any kind of information but requires some sort of
reader to input or output data." Among the research findings:

- three quarters of those polled (76%) said they were "extremely," "very" or
"somewhat" interested in the smart card concept; about one-third (31%) were
"very" or "extremely" interested

- of the 31% "very" or "extremely" interested, the majority said that they
would "definitely want" smart cards for applications such as med-alert
information (74%); health insurance ID (62%); ATM and related bank access
(59%); drivers licenses (56%); and credit cards (53%)

- the most interested group were, in general, willing to pay up to $50 to
obtain a smart card, and a $25 annual fee to maintain the card

- that same group carried far more cards in their wallets than those not
interested (6.3 cards vs. 3.9 cards)

- those most interested fit the profile of early technology adopters:
younger, higher income, own a PC, etc.

- convenience and security were seen as key motivating factors for adoption

 "These initial results reveal a number of interesting things we didn't know
before," says Barr. "First, smart cards -- as they were conservatively
described in the research -- have a potential core early-adopter
constituency to start with of about a third of the population. Second, some
of the applications a smart card can enable are easily understood and
appreciated by that segment of the population. That's good news for the
industry, because it is the use of smart cards for each of these individual
things that will collectively increase the momentum towards
multiple-application smart card interoperability and ubiquity."

Interest in smart cards.

 All focus group respondents expressed interest in the "smart card concept."
It should be noted that these groups were pre-screened to eliminate
"technophobes," and participants developed concepts themselves, so higher
levels of enthusiasm for smart card technology were to be expected.

 However, approximately three-quarters of those polled in the telephone
survey said they were either "somewhat," "very" or "extremely" interested in
the smart card concept. About a quarter were not interested.

 Who are most interested in the idea of smart cards?

 The research discovered that those interested in smart cards - compared to
those "not interested" in the concept -- are:

- much more likely to have PCs, cell phones, or other high-tech devices (98%
vs. 68%) - much more likely to look forward to new technology (44% vs.
18%) - younger (38 vs. 48 years old) - have higher incomes ($54,000 vs.
$45,000) - already carrying more cards than those not interested (6.3 vs.
3.9)

 "Those numbers tell us that as an industry, we must extend our efforts
beyond the classic early adopter community and connect with the majority of
consumers who need to be educated about the many benefits to them of smart
card technology," says Barr.

 "Our ability to bridge that gap will determine the future success of our
industry."

One card to replace many.

 As designed by the focus groups, "Such a (smart) card would replace most of
what they now carried in their pockets and do other things as well. It would
not be used in addition to the cards in the wallets, but instead of those
cards."

 Of those interested in having a smart card (N=741): *T Would want only one
smart card 35% Would want two smart cards 30 Would want three smart cards 27
Would want four or more cards 6 *T One card that does many things.

 Within the qualitative phase, people were able to easily generate potential
uses for a smart card. More than 100 plausible application ideas were
generated, both for personal and for business use. These included: replacing
money and credit cards, replacing many of the cards in one's wallet, storing
records, and managing daily events.

 Of those interested the smart cards, respondents said that they would
"definitely want" them for:

Med-Alert information 74%, Health insurance ID 62, ATM and related bank
access 59, Drivers license 56, Credit cards 53, Prescription card 51, Car
information 50, Money for small purchases 48, Medical records 44, "Other" ID
39, Discount shopping cards 39, Money for larger purchases 36, Frequent
flyer information 34, "Other" membership cards 26.

 According to Barr, "we are pleased by these findings on applications,
because that's what smart cards are supposed to be all about. Smart cards
are supposed to perform lots of diverse functions, and we're pleased that
those surveyed could identify so many of them. Multi-application
interoperability is both the objective of the Smart Card Forum and the key
to unlocking the business potential of our industry."

The ideal way to distribute and control smart cards.

 A consensus emerged among those most interested in the concept about how
one would/should get and maintain a smart card:

- consumers would obtain a "starter" smart card from one of many sources,
either free or for a small fee

- they would "build" onto it by adding identification and licenses, personal
data, and credit data (among others), either free or for a small fee

- users would pay an independent service an annual fee to help maintain and
protect the card

- individual smart card-holders would allow different organizations
different levels of access to the card

Respondents disliked the idea of a single authority having access to all
their smart card key data. They accepted that in the absence of such an
authority, problems with maintaining the card, replacing it, canceling it,
etc. would become overwhelming. Accordingly, their plausible solution was
"distributed," allowing for widespread sale of smart cards at a very low
price, with the cards supported by an individual choice of one of many
independent "bonding agencies" paid monthly or annual fees for their
services. It was thought that data might also be backed up by this agency
(in encrypted form), or saved by the card's owner who would have two
versions of his/her card made.

Mild preference for adding data oneself 61%, Mild preference for having one
company to call for problems 59%, Mild preference for many suppliers 58%.

Pricing.

 In general, the research discovered that of those most interested in the
smart card concept, respondents were willing to pay up to $50 to obtain a
card, and approximately a $25 annual fee to maintain the card.

 Potential smart card users rarely envisioned a single-use card that would
be used in addition to the cards in their wallets. Rather, they were
interested in a card that would put multiple uses on a single device. The
key reasons for embracing the card thus focused heavily on convenience:
fewer things in one's wallet, fewer things to remember to carry.

 Another initial motivator might be security. A smart card can be made
significantly more secure than a normal magnetic stripe card, and when
introduced to that information, survey participants indicated that smart
cards might, by "electronically storing receipts in some way," provide
additional reassurance. The use of electronic fingerprinting (biometrics) as
proof of identity was also seen as a way to protect the security of
information stored on smart cards.

 "Security" was also interpreted as meaning medical safety and physical well
being. Accordingly, a smart card with emergency information accessible by
physicians and paramedics was also considered desirable.

 Other ways to encourage initial smart card use focused on having a smart
card doing certain things better than its "dumb" predecessor (e.g. a
"faster" or "less expensive" card). Using the card as an electronic key, to
which other applications might be added later, was also seen as a possible
benefit.

The bottom-line.

 "Using a very precise and narrow definition of a smart card, we have
discovered useful new information that we can apply as the full spectrum of
smart card applications emerges into the mainstream commercial environment,"
says Barr. "This is just the beginning of our industry's efforts to learn
about how we can connect with and educate consumers whose interest in smart
card technology increases in relation to the information they have about
it."

 The Smart Card Forum (www.smartcardforum.org) is a non-profit, multi-
industry organization of 200 members working to accelerate the widespread
acceptance of multiple application smart card technology by bringing
together, in an open forum, leading users and technologists from both the
public and private sectors.

NOTES:

- The "qualitative" aspect of this study comprised a set of 14 focus groups
that were conducted in four US cities (New York City, NY; Chicago, IL; San
Francisco, CA; and Jacksonville, FL), and two Canadian cities (Guelph and
Toronto, ON).

- The "quantitative" aspect comprised a much larger and more "projectable"
sample of 2,400 American and English-speaking Canadian citizens aged 18 and
over who completed a structured telephone interview. Respondents were
capable of using a smart card (e.g., had some other form of "plastic" card
or checking accounts) but otherwise were randomly selected.

CONTACT:
Megan McDonnell
Environics Communications
1 (203) 325-8772, #14
mmcdonnell@environics-usa.com
or
Karen Silberman
Smart Card Forum
1 (703) 610-9023
help@smartcardforum.org

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 03:35:24 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: [FP] FW: CA Fingerprinting legislation
Message-ID: <199809110836.BAA11006@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: "ScanThisNews" 
Subject: IP: [FP] FW: CA Fingerprinting legislation
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 22:12:08 -0500
To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com

======================================================================
SCAN THIS NEWS
9/9/98

[Forwarded message]
======================================================================
Fr:	Jon Golinger, CALPIRG
Re:	Wrap-up on Bank Fingerprinting/Biometrics Legislation in California
this year
Date:	9/9/98

As you know, there was significant activity in the State Legislature this
year surrounding the use of fingerprints and other biometric identifiers
by banks and commercial entities.  This is an effort to summarize what
happened this year and solidify a coalition to work together on these
issues next year and in years to come.

There were two main bills introduced to address the
fingerprinting/biometrics issue - SB 1622 by Senator Steve Peace, which
would have prohibited banks from fingerprinting customers, and AB 50 by
Assemblyman Kevin Murray, which would have created some guidelines for
the use of fingerprints and other biometrics in the commercial sector. 
Neither piece of legislation passed this year.

SB 1622, backed by CALPIRG, the Privacy Rights Clearinghouse, ACLU, Ralph
Nader, and others, was approved by the State Senate and the Assembly
Judiciary Committee.  Opposed by the California Bankers Association and
some law enforcement officials, the bill was voted down in the Assembly
Banking Committee in early August and remained there for the rest of the
year.

AB 50, backed by the California Bankers Association and some law
enforcement officials, was heavily amended and approved by just one
Committee, the Senate Judiciary Committee, after extensive negotiations. 
Opposed by Nader, ACLU, CALPIRG, Privacy Rights Clearinghouse, and the
California Reinvestment Committee, AB 50 was expected to pass but was
pulled from the Senate Floor and killed by leadership the day before the
session ended.

So, the status quo leaves many California banks still fingerprinting
customers and the potential for other commercial uses of biometrics very
much an open question.  However, the banks and their allies failed to
close the door on this issue by passing the weak "consumer protections"
in AB 50 that would have effectively paved the way for fingerprinting and
biometrics in a variety of commercial situations and made it difficult to
pass consumer-friendly legislation in the future.

This issue will surely be the subject of legislation next year.  I
believe that it would be in the interests of those concerned about
privacy, discrimination, and "Big Brother" issues related to this subject
to begin discussions or meetings before the new legislative session
begins about a plan for the coming year.  We may also want to consider
establishing a "Privacy Coalition" to work on these and related issues as
they arise.  I will be in touch with interested groups and individuals
about this in the coming weeks.

We can be certain of one thing:  the banks and their allies will be back.
 So will we.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jon L Golinger [mailto:calpirg.golinger@juno.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 1998 2:56 PM
To: mcdonald@networkusa.org
Subject: CA Fingerprinting legislation

=======================================================================
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 03:35:10 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: The big blackout?
Message-ID: <199809110836.BAA11018@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: "Douglas E. Renz" 
Subject: IP: The big blackout?
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 15:50:53 -0400
To: "'Chris Ball'" <1stlight@mail.tds.net>, "'En_Agape'" , "'Kim/Jr'" , "'Kristen'" , "'Steve Cortese'" , "'Tom Young'" 

September 7, 1998

The big blackout?

Regardless of your own Y2K preparedness, the slow-moving electrical industry
could leave you in the dark
By Blaise Zerega

Companies scrambling to bring their computer systems into year-2000
compliance may discover that their time and effort will be for naught. A
lack of preparedness by North America's electrical industry may pull the
plug on many companies' transition plans.

Although many electric companies have already begun addressing year-2000
compliance, some have not. It was only in June that the first industrywide
efforts got under way, which may not leave enough time for testing and
contingency planning, according to experts.

"I can't tell you overall how we stand. Based on the information we receive,
we'll build contingency plans off that," said Jon Arnold, chief technology
officer of the Edison Electric Institute (EEI), a trade organization in
Washington that represents companies supplying roughly 75 percent of North
America's electricity.

The North American Electric Reliability Council (NERC) will present the
first industry report on year-2000 readiness to the Department of Energy
(DOE) on Sept. 14, with public release slated for Sept. 17. Until the
publication of this report, serious questions about the capability of power
companies to generate, transmit, and distribute electric power -- and the
consequences for IT system and business disruptions -- will abound.

Industry experts point to the electric system's interconnectedness as the
potential source of most problems. North America is divided into three
interconnected power grids, which are made up of electric generating,
transmitting, and distribution companies. These thousands of companies
compose a high-level network that is only as strong as its weakest segment.

"If you have a failure in one place, it can affect the power delivery in
many places," said Stephanie Moore, an analyst at the Giga Information
Group, a research company in Westport, Conn.

The risk posed by interconnectedness is made worse by deregulation. For
example, a California company purchasing power from a Tennessee company may
not receive it because of a transmission problem in Kansas.

Unfortunately, companies have very few alternative power options, analysts
say. Large companies should investigate on-site power generation, largely
from generators, while small companies with limited resources might resort
to candles and a return to paper -- until power is restored and IT systems
brought back up.

"The truth is, I don't have any good advice," said Rick Cowles, director of
industry year-2000 solutions at Tava Technologies, in Penn's Grove, N.J.

Many companies have been slow to tackle the year-2000 risks of their power
supply, concentrating instead on their internal computing systems, analysts
said.

A large Fortune 200 manufacturer in the Midwest is taking this risk
seriously, but has yet to cement a plan to manage the risk. The manufacturer
has more than 50 worldwide locations and is urging its local facilities to
contact their electricity suppliers immediately.

"As we start to develop insight to what those providers are capable of,
we'll draw that into business continuity and contingency planning," the
manufacturer's year-2000 project leader said.

Other companies such as credit card provider Household International will
use in-house resources to meet the possibility of power disruption.

"All our major facilities are being prepared to handle any external or
internal failure, [by] having back-up generator and back-up diesel
capability," said Thomas Wilkie, Household International's director of risk
management, in Prospect Heights, Ill.

For now, companies have to wait while the electric power industry as a whole
undertakes the critical steps of gaining and sharing information.

"We can't answer questions on preparedness at this point," said Gene
Gorzelnik, director of communications at NERC, in Princeton, N.J.

NERC is compiling results of questionnaires sent in June to the 200 largest
North American power companies, and to four trade associations representing
3,000 distribution companies. Results will be included in the industry
report delivered to the DOE in September. NERC will follow the report with a
coordination of preparedness plans and scenario analysis ending in July
1999, and a coordination of precautionary operations during the year-2000
transition.

Although NERC and the EEI expect the September DOE report to be positive
generally, it is not clear whether "mom and pop" distributors or large
electric utilities -- generally thought to be more vulnerable -- present a
greater risk.

"In a lot of cases, you can't make the assumption that mom and pops are
going to be the problem, because the larger companies tend to have a lot of
automation," the EEI's Arnold said.

Another risk in need of assessment is the nuclear power industry. According
to the Nuclear Energy Institute, a trade organization in Washington, the
United States depends on nuclear power to generate 22 percent of its
electricity.

"You can't talk about [year 2000] and electricity without including the
nuclear power industry," Cowles said.

In June, the Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) sent a letter the 108 U.S.
nuclear power plants advising the industry of year-2000 risks and requesting
a detailed written statement of readiness by July 1, 1999.

Much like the NERC effort, the NRC information-gathering is a good first
step, but one that leaves companies considering contingency plans in limbo.

"My advice is wait for the [industry] reports and strike up a dialogue with
your utility at the local level," Arnold said.






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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 03:35:49 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Looming Y2k Crisis
Message-ID: <199809110836.BAA11030@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: "Douglas E. Renz" 
Subject: IP: Looming Y2k Crisis
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 15:53:12 -0400
To: "'Chris Ball'" <1stlight@mail.tds.net>, "'En_Agape'" , "'Kim/Jr'" , "'Kristen'" , "'Steve Cortese'" , "'Tom Young'" 

   36 Seemingly Innocuous Questions That Pry the Truth
  Out of Managers and Programmers Regarding the Year 2000
   (Y2K) Problem and Their Organization's Looming Crisis

                   (c) Gary North, 1997
                 http://www.garynorth.com

The author hereby gives permission to any reporter,
columnist, or journalist to e-mail a copy of this report
to any colleague in the profession.


                       INTRODUCTION

     The Year 2000 (Y2K) Problem is real.  If it weren't,
Chase Manhattan Bank would not have budgeted between $200
million and $250 million to solve it.

     Nobody knows what the fallout will be.  My Web site
offers summaries and links to documents posted all over
the Web.  But there are so many potential falling dominoes
that nobody can predict most of what's going to happen.

     We will be hit from all sides without warning.
Things that nobody is thinking about today will be
disrupted.  For example, the water-control locks on the
Panama Canal are controlled by a mainframe computer
system.  Jimmy Carter and Congress signed away the Canal
back in 1977.  It goes to Panama on January 1, 2000.  Will
the U.S. government fund this Y2K repair?  (Ha!)  If not,
what happens to the canal in 2000?  What happens to
shipping?  The government is not discussing this.

     Dominoes.  Nothing but dominoes.  Maybe you can find
some interesting ones locally.

     I have set up a closed discussion forum on my Web
site for reporters who are working on Y2K assignments.
You can post messages to each other.  Maybe it will help.
If you find an interviewing strategy that works better
than what I suggest here, let me know.  Meanwhile. . . .


          I.  EXPECT TO BE STONEWALLED OR MISLED

     This reporting assignment is easier for women.  The
company's PR department will assume that a woman doesn't
know anything technical.  The manager or PR flak may be
less guarded.  If you're a woman who majored in English
lit, let the public relations people know this early.

     For general background, read the cover story of
NEWSWEEK (June 2).  This is an accurate account.  If
anything, it is overly subdued.  You need to know what is
at stake internationally before you begin research on how
the Millennium Bug will affect your community.

     My report is no cure-all.  A well-informed manager is
going to be paranoid about a story on Y2K and his
organization.  You have to hope you wind up interviewing a
manager or spokesman who really doesn't understand the
problem.  The closer you get to the truth, the more that a
careful manager will raise his "deflector shields."

     "We cannot divulge any proprietary information."
     "Our contractor is in charge of this project."
     "No, he cannot speak with you about this."
     "Our vendors are taking care of this."
     "No, we cannot supply their names."
     "We are on schedule: late 1998."

     When you hear any of these, be assured: you're onto
something important.  To get the full story, you must now
earn your paycheck.

     You can invoke the time-honored, "We want you to have
an opportunity to tell your side of the story."  You may
choose to hand him a photocopy of the NEWSWEEK article.
"This paints a pretty glum picture.  I had hoped to find
out if things really are as bad as this report indicates.
If your organization is on top of this problem, I would
like to be able to report this to our readers."  You can
gently make it clear that a refusal to answer questions
will make the company's situation look bad -- maybe worse
than it really is.  If you can't get access to a
programmer, keep asking the spokesman questions, even if
you get "no comment" to all of them.  Write each refusal
down in your notebook.  This will make him nervous.

     The most important Y2K-threatened organizations in
your community are the public utilities: water/sewers,
natural gas, and above all, electricity (the national
power grid is at risk).  You could do a powerful series of
articles on just these.  They can't stonewall you as
easily as a private firm can.  They are politically
controlled.  You can go to members of the public utilities
commission, tell them they you're being stonewalled, and
ask for help.  Ultimately, public utilities commission
members will become personally liable if the system goes
down and they knew about it in advance.  You can even
print out two or three of the documents I've posted on my
Web site under "Litigation."  Hand these print-outs to one
or more of the PUC's members.  My site's address is:

http://www.garynorth.com

     A member of a public utility commission is at great
personal risk if he lies or deliberately misleads the
public, and then a disaster takes place.  Call it
"Chernobyl syndrome."  Ask one or more of them to run
interference for you.  You want the interview.

     If you absolutely can't get access to a programmer at
a public utility, print out a copy of this report and hand
it to every member of the public utilities commission.
Tell them they had better get these questions answered for
themselves, and soon.

     I know of only one detailed local Y2K study that is
easily available: the report on North Platte, Nebraska,
written by three Creighton University economics
professors.  I have posted it on my site under
"Government."  A front-page story on Dick Brich, the
programmer in charge of the county's computer system,
appeared in the May 1, 1997 issue of USA TODAY.

     To understand the programming problem, you need a
standard for comparison.  Here is a good one.  Social
Security has had 400 programmers working since 1991 to fix
its system, which has 30 million lines of code.  The SSA
discovered the problem in 1989.  As of 1997, the system is
still noncompliant.  (See my Web site's category,
"Government.")  Use Social Security your benchmark.


                 II.  WHAT IS THE THREAT?

     You should assume that the spokesman or manager who
has consented to be interviewed has no idea of what is
involved technically in a Y2K repair.  He does not know
how long it will take.  Neither does anyone else.  Nothing
on this vast scale has ever been attempted in the
Information Technology world.

     The company probably has an official deadline:
December 31, 1998.  This has been forced on management by
the threat of post-1999 litigation: a due diligence date,
just in case the repair fails.  At least a year of testing
is necessary to verify that the repair is bug-free or at
least manageable.  The question is: Manageable by how many
people?  Kathy Adams of Social Security says that a 1%
error rate is too high.  With either 43 million or 50
million monthly checks -- she invoked both figures on
separate occasions -- either 430,000 or 500,000 phone
calls would hit the branch offices within days.  It would
overload the SSA's system, she says.  (Her estimate is
just for month one.  What if these complaints all not
taken care of, and another 1% error rate happens again
next month?  SSA will get a cascading effect -- noise,
confusion, and telephone busy signals.  Shutdown!)

     Medicare expects to pay a billion claims in 2000.
What percentage of errors would overwhelm the system,
assuming the system doesn't shut down on Jan. 1, 2000?

     But the manager who is speaking with you -- think of
him as Dilbert's boss's boss -- has not thought about any
of this.  So, he has no idea what constitutes a failed
repair, short of an absolute shutdown.  His job is to
paint a happy-face picture for you and all other
inquirers.  If the company is facing a disaster, he
doesn't want you to find out, assuming that anyone in the
company has warned him, which is doubtful.

     Everyone in the company has an incentive to lie.
Dilbert is paid to write code.  He does not make waves.
Meanwhile, his boss is threatened with getting fired if he
tells senior management, "I can't get this project
finished on schedule.  The system will crash."  The boss
says his team in on schedule.  Who can check up on him to
find out if he's behind schedule?  Nobody in management.
He collects his pay until December 31, 1999, at which time
he turns into Maxwell Smart: "Sorry about that."

     Senior managers desperately want to believe the IT
department, so they don't ask further questions.  They
hope that all their competitors are in the same condition,
which is surely the case.  This is why bond-rating
services have refused to downgrade any organization's
bonds because of Y2K risks.  They're all equally at risk.


     III.  ASSESSING THE ORGANIZATION'S VULNERABILITY

     Here are the Six Fundamental Questions:

     1.   "In what ways is your system is dependent on
          dates?"  (It's is a soft-core version of this:
          "If you fail to fix this, what happens?")
     2.   "When did the company find out about Y2K?"
     3.   "At what stage is the repair: inventory,
          assessment, code-fixing, testing [ha!]?"
     4.   "How many lines of code are in the system?"
     5.   "How many programmers are working on it?"
     6.   "What is your deadline to begin testing?"

     It is a standard estimate that a skilled programmer
with a date-search software tool ("silver bullet") can
correct about 100,000 lines of code a year.  This number
is crucial to your final story.  If you can find out how
many lines of code the organization must correct and the
number of programmers working full-time on the repair, you
can estimate whether there is any chance they will get the
problem fixed.  By this I mean the local computer.  This
does not solve the ultimate problem: integrating a
repaired computer with other computers, which, if not
repaired, or repaired with a different approach, will send
bad data into the first computer, ruining the repair.
(There is no agreed-upon standard for Y2K repairs; every
programming team is on its own, all over the world.)

     Be generous.  Let's say that the programmers are all
hot-shots.  Let's say they can fix on average 10,000 lines
a month.  Multiply this by the number of months left until
the universally agreed-upon date for the beginning of
testing: December 31, 1998.  Then multiply this number by
the number of programmers.  This will tell you if the
outfit has a chance of meeting the deadline for testing.
If the programmers miss the deadline -- and in 85% of all
large-scale code revision projects, they do -- then this
outfit the equivalent of the Titanic.  Do you think that a
program that's at least 500 times more complex than your
word processor can be re-coded by a committee and not
suffer a crash or a major glitch the first time it's run?
They had better test it.  What happens if they don't have
time?  Second, what happens if the test crashes the new
system?  The Jan. 1, 2000 deadline is a brick wall.

     Normally, 40% of a Y2K repair budget must be
allocated for testing.  This means 40% of the time budget
unless proven otherwise.  It may be higher in complex
systems -- above 100 million lines of code.  The spokesman
may tell you the truth about the Y2K discovery date if
he's proud of it: 1995 or early 1996.  Keep thinking
"Social Security."  They found out in 1989, got started on
the repair in 1991, and it's still not compliant.

     "Which stage?"  He may not know at which stage their
repair team is.  If he does know, he may not want to tell
you.  Maybe the programmer in charge will, if he doesn't
think it's privileged information.  So, your goal is to
get the spokesman to turn you over to the senior
programmer -- or, better yet for information purposes, a
subordinate programmer, who probably has no idea of the
sensitivity of the information he possesses.



         IV.  DETOUR: "PACKAGED SOFTWARE SOLUTION"

     I don't count these among the 36 questions.  The
spokesman may tell you that they will soon buy a packaged
system.  If you were conducting this interview in 1992,
this might make sense.  Today, it's too late.  Packaged
systems for highly complex, highly customized software are
very expensive to buy and very time-consuming to
implement.  A packaged system is no panacea today.

     The problem is this: How can they port their old data
and operations to the new, date-compliant software?  This
job takes years.  (Some consultants say that it's now too
late to repair code in the old systems.  I'm of this
opinion.  But is there enough time to design and implement
a replacement system?  Management hasn't a clue.)

     He may tell you that they are switching to a
client/server system.  Ask how much the old system cost.
Unfortunately, he may have no idea.  The new system had
better cost at least five times as much, given the
difference in prices (inflation).  If the new figure isn't
at least five times higher than the old one, the company
doesn't understand the magnitude of the complexity of the
old system and the difficulty of switching.  (On this
point, I was advised by Cory Hamasaki, a full-time Y2K
programmer.  For his voluminous Web postings, as well as
his humor, search "Hamasaki" on www.dejanews.com )

[Side Note: in a July 2, 1997, letter to me, Hamasaki
reported on the U.S. government's present Y2K status.  He
lives near Washington.  "Everywhere I checked last year,
they said that they were either working on it or had
solved the problem.  This year, the same places are saying
that it'll be tough, but they're having meetings and are
doing their planning.  What will they say next year?  I
expect that they will finally be past denial, and the
screaming and scape goating will begin."]

     If he says they plan to outsource the job to India or
Ireland, ask: "Do you have a contract with the software
repair company yet?"  These companies are now booked up or
are close to it.  The shortage of mainframe programmers is
real, though not yet an insurmountable problem.  It will
become insurmountable in 1999.  A WASHINGTON POST story
predicts a U.S. shortage of 500,000 to 700,000.  Another
estimate places England's at 300,000.  (I have posted this
information on my Web site under "Too Late?")

     If the company has "outsourced" the project, request
an interview with the contracting firm's project manager.
If he says no, then you're onto something.  But if you
can't get additional information, the interview will be
much harder.  You will have to interview the person inside
the local outfit who serves as the technical liaison.


           V.  HOW TO GET ACCESS TO A PROGRAMMER

     After you ask the spokesman about the date they
discovered the problem, ask him a technical question that
seems to be important to you, but which is actually
designed to get him to let you get your interview with a
programmer.  I suggest this question:

     7.   "Which method of dealing with the problem
          have you chosen: encapsulation, windowing,
          or expansion?"

     He won't know.  It's a purely technical question.
Nobody with decision-making capacity in management would
know the answer.  So, his ego isn't involved if he says he
doesn't know the answer.  You must now press politely but
firmly him allow you to interview a programmer.

     What if he asks why you want to know?  Answer: "So
that I can estimate how their repair will integrate with
the repairs made by other firms in your industry."

     You do, in fact, need to know this.  This, in fact,
is the crucial Y2K issue.  Any repair of one system that
fails to integrate with the industry's other newly
repaired systems will either: (1) kick the local computer
out of the system or (2) bring down the whole system.  If,
for example, the banks don't get together on their fixes,
you and I will not be getting paid for our brilliant
writing skills in 2000 and beyond.  (Sad, but true.)

     If the spokesman thinks you're interested mainly in
techie-type information, he may leave you alone with a
programmer.  That's your goal.  If he insists on being in
attendance, you must ask questions that seem to be merely
technical, but which will get the programmer to tell you
facts that will enable you to estimate whether the
organization is going to make it.


                VI.  YOU AND THE PROGRAMMER

     The lower on the hierarchy he is, the less he knows
about what constitutes sensitive information.  Even if the
PR flak knows, he may be hesitant to tell the guy to shut
up.  He may not want to appear to be stonewalling.

     The more information you can get early, the less
vulnerable you'll be to a "no further questions"
announcement.  That's why your early questions should be
more technical.  They will seem innocuous.

     Ask the programmer about windowing, expansion, and
encapsulation.  The guy will know.  Ask him why they
adopted their approach.  The answer may or may not be
comprehensible.  Let him talk.  It loosens his tongue.
(OK, OK: loosens HER tongue.  This is no time to worry
about political correctness.)  He's in his element.

     8.   Ask to see some of the code.  It will be
          gobbledegook to you.  But ask to see it.

     9.   Ask the guy to tell you what he has to do to
          change a date.  Sit next to him at his screen
          and watch how he does it.  This will give you an
          education.  Also, it puts him in his element.
          He's more relaxed.  He's in charge.  Meanwhile,
          the spokesman is as clueless as you are.

     If possible, conduct the rest of the interview while
the programmer is staring at his screen.  It will give him
confidence.  Look at his screen or your notebook as much
as you can.  A lot of eye contact may make him nervous.

     You're after information about the number of lines of
code in the system.  Ask him:

     10.  "Would you have adopted either of the other
          approaches if you had been facing a system
          with fewer lines of code?"

     Let him talk code.  He feels more secure.  Then ask:

     11.  "How many lines of code are in the system?"

     If the spokesman doesn't intervene here, you've got a
story.  If it's 5 million lines or more, the outfit is in
big trouble.  It's a huge, complex system.

     Now you want to find out how many programmers are
working on it full-time.  Ask (12).  He might even tell
you.  Next:

     13.  "When did you begin the actual code
          repair?"

     If he says that they're still in the assessment or
inventory stage, this outfit is dead.  Management just
doesn't know it yet.  Any programming team that is not
actively repairing code today will be incapable of
finishing the job by 2000.  You will want to visit my Web
site for confirmation.  Read the California White Paper.

     Once you have the Six Fundamental Questions answered,
you can begin to evaluate the company's actual condition.
The spokesman may not know how to put all this information
together.  In fact, he probably doesn't know.  He may not
even see what you're up to when you ask about which stage
the repair is in.  If he does, he may invoke "proprietary
information."  Keep going: you're now after "no comments."


           VII.  ASSESSING THE TASK'S COMPLEXITY

     14.  "I've heard that there are more languages
          embedded in a system than just COBOL.  How
          many have you come across?

     Some systems will have 20 other languages.  Assembler
is one of the monsters.  Find out if any of the system is
written in Assembler.  (Most of the IRS's system is in
Assembler.  The IRS told Congress in June of 1997 that it
needs $258 million in 1998 to repair its system.  The IRS
may not get this money, given its admission in January,
1997, of its 11-year, $4 billion failure to consolidate
its system into one.  Interesting?)  Then ask:

     15.  "How difficult will it be to keep all of
          the languages and programs in this system
          to remain integrated after you've made the
          necessary date changes in the code?

     One major problem is the compiler: a piece of
software that fits all parts of the system together.  The
compiler that the original programmer used to build the
system was not designed to handle 4-digit dates.  It may
not have been updated -- in fact, probably has not been
updated.  The company that made it may be out of business.
So, if he mentions "compiler," pursue the matter, but
don't mention it first.  Remember, you're ignorant.

     Now go for the jugular.  You must play the "please
help me to understand all this" role.  You just don't
understand.  You had better hope that the flak doesn't
either, if he's still sitting in the room.

     What you're after here is information regarding the
vulnerability of this organization.  Which kind of dates
can blow up the system and why?  He won't tell you if he
thinks you're looking for bombs, but he'll tell a whole
lot if he thinks he's your new-found mentor.

     If you're looking at the screen or a print-out of
indecipherable code, look helpless.  Always look helpless.
You may even ask the spokesman to sit closer.  Let this
become a joint-learning experience.

     16.  "You use dates in your computer software
          and in old data records.  How do you or
          your software tools find them?"

     He probably won't volunteer that there are hidden
dates in the system's programs.  Dates are hidden in
subroutines that his "silver bullet" can't find.  Finding
these is a very difficult, time-consuming task.  Ask:

     17.  "Can the tool you use automatically find
          every date in the code?"

     It can't.  There is no such thing as a true silver
bullet.  This is why the task is so painstaking.

     18.  "How do you spot dates if they're not visible?"

     Find out.  He may tell you about the screwball names,
such as some old girlfriend's first name, that the
original programmer used to identify his clever,
undocumented code.  I emphasize "undocumented."  Ask:

     19.  "Do you have the original documentation in
          front of you when you do the search?"

     If he says the company doesn't have it (which is
probably the case), you've hit pay dirt.  Don't let your
face show it.  Say, "Boy, that must make your work hard."
It does.  Let him whine about it a bit.  Next:

     20.  "I'm having trouble understanding all this.
          Am I interpreting this correctly?  Is the
          problem that all of these dates are stored
          as mm/dd/yy or in any other combination
          that has yy instead of yyyy?"

     This is indeed the problem.  The fate of the world's
economy hinges on the solution to it.  Then ask:

     21.  "If your dates are not already in the yyyy
          format, do you have to go in and add the
          extra 2 digits, line by line, through the
          entire system, including all of the old
          data files?"

     Let him explain this to you.  Then. . . .

     22.  "Is it true that when you rewrite a single
          line of code, this can have unpredictable
          repercussions in other parts of the
          system?"

     Here is the terrifying truth -- a truth that
literally threatens the survival of our economy.  If a
programmer makes a date change in one line of code, this
can have unforeseen repercussions -- always bad --
anywhere else in the system.  This is why final testing is
crucial.  It is also why final testing will crash many
systems.  Then the team will have to start over: search
all of the lines of code for non-date anomalies (no date-
locating silver bullet tool can help here), rewrite the
affected code, and test again.  The system may crash
again.  It probably will crash again.  Time will be
running out.  All this testing, fixing, and re-testing
must be done in 1999.  This assumes that firms actually
meet the formal deadline for testing: December 31, 1998.

     This is why Chase Manhattan Bank (200m lines of
code), Citicorp (400m lines) and AT&T (500m lines) have
problems.  So do you and I if we expect the economy to
stay afloat after Dec. 31, 1999.

     23.  "If one change can crash the system, do you
          have to check every line of code in every
          program to insure that if a date is being
          used, it can accept the new date format?"

     He had better say yes.  If he says his "silver
bullet" tool can help him do this, fine, but he is still
limited to about 100,000 lines of code a year.  Ask him
how many lines of code he can fix in a year (24).

     Now, you must take him into new worlds where no man
has gone before.

     25.  "How will you test the system after all of
          the dates have been changed?

     He had better tell you by parallel testing: running
data into the original program and the revised one
simultaneously, to see if the revised system crashes.

     26.  "How long will it take to test all this?"

     If he estimates anything under six months, use this
for comparison purposes with other local systems.  The
larger the program, the longer the testing period should
be.  Now, for the killer, the one that is unanswerable:

     27.  "Won't parallel [mirror] testing require
          two times your computer capacity and
          staff?"

     If the spokesman lets him answer this, he has made a
big mistake.  The rule for mainframes is "24 x 7 x 365":
all year long.  These expensive machines are run all day
at 90% capacity except for routine maintenance in non-
prime time.  Here is the Achilles Heel for all of the Y2K
repair hopes: there will not be enough excess computer
capacity -- memory, data tapes, and staff -- to run full
parallel testing if every system that must be fixed is
brought to the testing phase.  On the other hand, if there
is no shortage in capacity, then it's because very few
firms have reached the testing phase.  (This is my bet.)
Finally, if systems aren't tested in 1999, most of them
will crash or act up to the point of uselessness in 2000.

     28.  "Does your firm plan to rent computer time
          in order to run the tests?"

     If he says no, ask how they can do in-house.  If he
says yes, ask this question:

     29.  "Where will you rent the excess capacity in
          1999 if other organizations are also
          looking to rent time on mainframes?"

     By now, the guy knows that you know they can't fix
it, test it, and implement it by 2000.  You've got your
story.  Nevertheless, keep on going if you're allowed to.

     30.  "Companies rely on outside vendors for some
          of their programs.  Have your vendors
          supplied you with Y2K-compliant updates?

     31.  "Most mainframes are not Y2K compliant, and
          currently no PC is.  Will you be replacing
          all of your computer hardware as well as
          your computer software?"

     32.  "Some of the firms that you interact may
          not make the deadline.  What steps will you
          have to take to insure data you get from
          other computers is also Y2K compliant?"


                 VIII.  BACK TO MANAGEMENT

     Now you can go talk to the spokesman back in his
office.  If he let you get this far, he doesn't understand
what you've got.  Move away from discussing his firm.
Discuss the industry.  This lets him relax.

     33.  "About how many suppliers does the typical
          organization in this industry rely on?"

     34.  "Is your firm typical, approximately?"

     35.  "Has the industry discussed contingency
          plans if some of its major suppliers should
          fail to meet the Year 2000 deadline?"

     Last question (36): "Where can I get copies of
anything that the industry has released on Y2K?"  If there
isn't anything, this industry is headed for a disaster.


                        CONCLUSION

     As the year 2000 approaches, this story is going to
move toward the front page of every newspaper.  As yet,
stories on local companies have been mostly tapioca
pudding.  Reporters are accepting at face value the happy-
face, "we're on top of this" PR interviews offered by
local managers.  The articles dutifully report the story:
"Yes, there's a problem, but it's being dealt with by the
[  ] company."  Fact: the only problem being dealt with
successfully the company is the reporter problem.

     If a local public utility goes down and stays down on
January 1, 2000, the days of wine and roses will end in
your community.  The larger your community, the greater
the problem.  It is fair to give people a warning if they
are really at risk.  But if they are at risk, nobody in
authority at the local public utility will want to admit
this.  Deferral has become management's job number-one.
This strategy works because nobody in the media blows the
whistle.  Reporters (as with almost everyone else) are in
denial about Y2K.  Deferral and denial are the Tweedledum
and Tweddledee of the Year 2000 story.

* * * * * * * * * * * *

                     ABOUT THE AUTHOR

     Ph.D., history, U. of California, Riverside.
Contributor,  (1997), edited by Leon
Kappelman.  





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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 03:36:03 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Web-sites for Starr's report on Clinton
Message-ID: <199809110836.BAA11041@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: Jan 
Subject: IP: Web-sites for Starr's report on Clinton
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 22:14:32 -0500
To: Ignition-Point 

	IMPORTANT NOTICE!!!!!

FOX News just announced the web-sites which will have 
Starr's report on Clinton to be posted sometime tomorrow.

I hope I have these all correct!   :0
   Jan
=============================
http://www.house.gov/icreport
http://www.loc.gov/icreport
http://www.access.gpo.gov/congress/icreport
 ******=========================================*****
"Among the elementary measures the American Soviet government
 will adopt to further the cultural revolution are...
 [a] National Department of Education...the studies will be
 revolutionized, being cleansed of religious, patriotic, and
 other features of the bourgeois ideology. The students will
 be taught the basis of Marxian dialectical materialism,
 internationalism and the general ethics of the
 new Socialist society."
     - William Z. Foster,
       Toward Soviet America, 1932

"...Stage III...would proceed to a point where no state would
have the military power to challenge the progressively 
strengthened U.N. peace force...
The manufacture of armaments would be prohibited...
All other armaments would be destroyed..." 
    -Department of State publication number 7277




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     majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com
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     (un)subscribe ignition-point email@address
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 03:35:09 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: SNET: [FP] Alaska: Nearly 93% of new parents choose Enumeration At Birth (EAB)
Message-ID: <199809110836.BAA11054@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: "ScanThisNews"  (by way of jeremy.compton@stonebow.otago.ac.nz (Jeremy Compton))
Subject: SNET: [FP] Alaska: Nearly 93% of new parents choose Enumeration At Birth (EAB)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 01:37:30 +1200
To: snetnews@world.std.com


->  SNETNEWS  Mailing List

======================================================================
SCAN THIS NEWS
9/10/98

This article actually ran in '96, but it is worth reviewing.

======================================================================

Press release from Alaska's Department of Health and Social Services
found at: http://health.hss.state.ak.us/htmlstuf/com/pr/media.htm

Electronic Birth Certificates and Social Security Cards at Birth Make Life
Easier For Parents

Februrary 6, 1966 (sic)

The Alaska Department of Health and Social Services Bureau of Vital
Statistics reports that the Electronic Birth Certificates (EBC) have been
installed in all but three of Alaska's hospitals. In a little over a two
year time period, the Bureau has gone from no electronic birth certificates
to nearly 99% of all Alaska hospital births coming to the Bureau in
electronic format. "Innumerable man-hours have been saved at both ends of
the registration process," said Al Zangri, Chief of the Bureau. In
addition, in cooperation with state-wide hospitals, the Bureau has
implemented the Social Security Administration's Enumeration At Birth (EAB)
program statewide during 1995. The Enumeration at Birth program allows
parents to request a social security number for their newborn through the
birth registration process. This program has proven to be so popular with
new parents that nearly 93% of all births transmitted to the Bureau request
a social security number.

=======================================================================
-----Original Message-----
From: Katherine A.
Sent: Thursday, Sep. 10, 1998
=======================================================================
Reply to: 
=======================================================================
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 20:25:41 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Cypherpunks as a Continuing Criminal Enterprise?
Message-ID: <199809110126.DAA07290@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Tue, 8 Sep 1998, Tim May wrote:

> Could our group be charged as a "continuing criminal enterprise" under the
> RICO statute?

Probably. Under RICO and associated laws they can get anyone for anything.
Well, except Komrade Klinton.

> 
> It occurs to me that if Carl Johnson, who is linked several times to our
> group/list in the court documents, is successfully prosecuted,then the Feds
> may be able to cite both Bell and Johnson as evidence of a conspiracy.
> 
> Which probably wouldn't be too hard to prove, as many of us have admitted
> to conspiring mightily to undermine various institutions. (And we even use
> encypted e-mail, the very essence of a secret conspiracy.)
> 
> It might be fun to see them try this. Would they charge some of us as
> ringleaders? Or would they declare the entity itself an illegal
> organization? (As they have done with various cultural, political, and even
> religous groups, like Hezbollah, the Aum religion, etc.)
> 
> Interesting times.

Quite.

One partial solution I see is to rewrite premail in C so it runs at a
respectable speed[1], fix some of the bugs[2], integrate it with more
mailers, and then encourage everybody to subscribe through nyms. I'd love
to see them try to prosecute users at nym.alias.net by presenting a court
order to Community Connexion in Oakland. ;) 

[1] Yes, it's really slow on slower machines. 
[2] One of the most obvious is when Premail sends out 3 copies of a
message for a 2 remailer chain, 9 copies for a 3 remailer chain, something
like 27 for a 4 remailer chain, and so on. If nothing else, that's a
security hole which allows people to know how many warrants they will
need. 






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 20:51:06 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Revenge of the AOLHoles
Message-ID: <199809110152.DAA09397@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Thu, 10 Sep 1998 AIMSX@aol.com wrote:

> 
> I truly hope you don't stereotype all AOL users for this idiot's insane
> ramblings.
> Unfortunately, some people are just morons, but you get them on every ISP
> anyway, they just aren't so obvious on others, because unfortunately, AOL
> makes it easier to communicate.

AOL makes it easier to communicate. This has the intended side effect of
attracting every moron with a home computer. Thus, AOL has a
disproportionate number of morons. They get what they ask for. 

The problem is that most of the AOL users who publish to the net seem to
be morons. They use some annoying Russo-Germanic quoting style, they can't
use English, they're clueless, they post off-topic, or something else. 

Examples of AOL catering to morons:

1) "AOL is the Internet!"
2) Using the fact that their software *says* "You have mail!" as a selling
point.  
3) They use a platform-specific client package. Further, "AOL is the
Internet,"  therefore AOL-specific conferences and newsgroups must be "on
the Internet" or "on the net" *and are advertised that way*. Uhh...
4) They make no effort to educate their lamers...err, users.
5) They send out tons of "free trial" disks, trying to snare every idiot
they can find.
6) They make their service as easy to use as possible, which is fine,
except that it attracts people who don't have the mental capacity to use
it when they venture outside of AOL. Witness the drek they pour onto the
Cypherpunks list.

I'm sure Mr. May could expand on this with a few dozen additional points,
if not a few hundred.

Now maybe this stuff is good marketting practice, but it's a lousy way to
serve the community which gives them life. It's the equivelent of a swim
coach bringing his students to a public pool and instructing them to
release their bowels whenever they feel the urge. If you use a site which
caters to morons, expect to get treated like one, especially if said site
celebrates the fact that they're defecating in the pool.

They've earned the stereotype that they have.

While we're at it, maybe some of the statistics-types out there can
analyze the archives for, say, the last month. Remove postings, if any,
which are routed through an anonymous remailer at AOL. Then remove random
or systematic spam (ex: the New York Times, that Javascript
"child-molester" exploit). Then compare the number of clueless postings to
Cypherpunks by AOL users to the number of useful and on-topic postings to
Cypherpunks by AOL users, and compare that ratio against other ISPs. When
determining clueless postings, include postings which use Russo-Germanic
("<< >>") quoting, or which are completely off-topic (ex: "how u do
that"). Count postings which are clueless but were originally from another
site and got forwarded here as originating from the original site. Maybe
repeat for Juno and Hotmail. Exclude flames and subsequent discussions
concerning these clueless postings (ex: don't include AIMSX's response or
this response in either category). 

Then again, there probably isn't any need.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 00:19:12 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Impossible Analysis Paper at Crypto98
Message-ID: <199809110520.HAA29692@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> There's talk of a paper given at Crypto98 on "Impossible
> Differential Analysis" which got the NSA people scribbling
> like mad taking notes as though this was something that
> had never come up at the agency and they'd better get
> right on it.
> 
> Roughly, as I heard it (and I may be way off), the premise is 
> that instead of using differential analysis for finding weaknesses 
> in a cipher, to flip that to determine what could not possibly be 
> a weakness in a cipher and build one with just those attributes.
> 
> Is this report correct, and is there a source for that paper?

This was presented at the rump session and apparently there is no paper
writeup yet.  Biham's home page at http://www.cs.technion.ac.il/~biham/
has a place you can register to be notified when new material comes out.

With conventional differential cryptanalysis, you look for pairs of inputs
which have differences (xors usually) such that after a certain number of
rounds, the ciphertexts have certain differences with excess probability.
With "impossible" differential cryptanalysis, you look for inputs with
differences which lead to ciphertext differences that are "impossible",
or at least have reduced probability.  It's the same basic idea but
you look for diminution rather than enhancement of the probability of
later differences.

Because of the reversal of the effect, the techniques for identifying
differentials, exploiting them, and designing against them are
rather different.  As a result ciphers which were designed to resist
differential cryptanalysis may be vulnerable to impossible differentials.
This technique has apparently led to an improved attack on SkipJack,
announced on Biham's web page above as "coming soon".  There was also
a moderate improvement in attacks on reduced-round IDEA (not effective
against the full number of rounds though).  At Crypto everyone was
scurrying off to see if any of the AES candidates could be knocked out
by the new technique.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Soren 
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 06:18:59 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: radio net
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980909005149.0081d100@mail.xroads.com>
Message-ID: <35F90842.3D783D77@workmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



HyperReal-Anon wrote:

> >>>>> Soren   writes:
>
>   > What about SSB?
>
>   >> FCC regulations prohibit amateur radio services from carrying
>   >> either encrypted OR commercial traffic.
>
> SSB modulation hardly counts as encryption. (?!)
> CFR 47  says:
>
> 97.113 Prohibited transmissions.
>
> (a) No amateur station shall transmit:
>
>   (1) Communications specifically prohibited elsewhere in this part;
>
>   (2) Communications for hire or for material compensation...
>
>   (3) Communications in which the station licensee or control operator
>   has a pecuniary interest...
>
>   (4) Music using a phone emission except as specifically provided
>   elsewhere in this section; communications intended to facilitate a
>   criminal act; messages in codes or ciphers intended to obscure the
>   meaning thereof, except as otherwise provided herein; obscene or
>   indecent words or language; or false or deceptive messages, signals
>   or identification;
>
>   (5) Communications...which could reasonably be furnished
>   alternatively through other radio services.
>
> [snip]
>
> 97.117 International communications.
>
> Transmissions to a different country, where permitted, shall be made
> in plain language and shall be limited to messages of a technical
> nature relating to tests, and, to remarks of a personal character for
> which, by reason of their unimportance, recourse to the public
> telecommunications service is not justified.

  The point being that Single side band transceivers are covered by a VHF
license, and don't count as ham/amateur although the spectrum overlaps.
Morse and other archaic codes are not required. Connectivity to telephonic
land stations is available.
In the mid-80's I purchased a yacht and sailed out over the horizon.  In
the preparation stages for this I investigated the comms availability and
ran head on into the old boys/popular mechanics of the '50's crowd, that
insisted I endure their hazing ceremony and learn Morse.  Suspecting that
adding morse parsing to the deep structures of my brain would turn me into
a popular mechanic, I declined. Other alternatives existed -- one SW
solution was to type in ascii which was then translated into morse before
sending (and vice versa).  Seems several other would be Cap'n Blighs, had
the same problem.  Hence marine electronic stores started stocking SSB
transceivers, which I purchased in the form of a ham transceiver with
factory installed disabling for the US. I disabled that strap pronto, and
was able to enjoy both listening to the cruising ham tag hunters, and make
telephone calls from 5000 miles out in the Pacific (12,000 when calling
Bay of Islands net in New Zealand). I had no problem using it to discuss
work and to ship data.  Whether I was breaking the Federal Communist
Channels rules or not, I can't say.  Of course, not being a United
Socialists citizen makes this easier.  Where I come from you get the
license/call numbers when you purchase the equipment.

And while I've got your attention, on another thread entirely re:
renewable energy sources -- where I come from we use geothermal and
hydroelectric (think hoover dam), to power the country. A lot of
individuals who have steady flowing water with a good head, on their
properties, also power themselves this way.  We also use LPG and CNG to
power about 50% of our autos. I would expect that using all that
relatively cheap electricity to produce metal hydrides would make hydrogen
powered vehicles viable as well.

The Union of Socialist Americans tends to not have much in the way of
raging rivers, so there have been discussions about harnessing the moon's
energy by building tidal hydro generators.  Last I heard, the
environmentalists thought it might hurt the fishies (more than fishing for
agricultural fertilizer?), so nuclear it is.  I suspect there's more to it
than that, nuclear probably has more dick-stroking factor.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Soren 
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 06:31:03 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Bits are Bits
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <35F90ADF.ED16F55B@workmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





Tim May wrote:

> * Recorded music: OK to resell. OK to lend to private parties for
> noncommercial use. NOT OK to rent.

I've been to several public libraries which charge to borrow (rent?) music:
CDs, vinyl, tape, sheet.

How do they do that?  Is public the magic word?




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 06:47:38 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: radio net
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 6:21 AM -0400 on 9/11/98, Somebody wrote:


> Actually, SSB is a modulation/broadcast *technique*.  Used by commercial
> and ham operators.

Yeah, but there are SSB radios, with the same range as ham radios, which
are, or should be, completely legal to do encryption on, among other
commercial things.

That was my point.
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 07:22:55 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Bits are Bits (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809111245.HAA10643@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 00:47:03 -0700
> From: Tim May 
> Subject: Bits are Bits

> -- rental of software is no longer allowed (court case?)...it seems to have
> ended around 1984 or so, when the software rental place near me announced
> it could no longer rent software titles

Then I won't tell you folks about Star-Tek which rents and sells software
all around the country...

As to the other stuff...

If you really think it's ok to lend your budy your CD to listen to the
newest bands out there you should call your local musicians union.

As to books and such, call a book publisher and ask for their legal
department.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Soren 
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 06:44:38 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: [Fwd: Course Ware Developer]
Message-ID: <35F90E95.BFF2B30A@workmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

I'm busy,  anyone else want to make money educating people in London?


To: sorens@workmail.com
Subject: Course Ware Developer
From: Morven McLauchlan 
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 98 11:30:52 GMT
Reply-To: mm@elanguil.demon.co.uk

Dear Soren,
>
We are currently looking for a Course Ware Developer to produce all
documentation and slides etc for a data security course. This contract
position will involve 50 days of development split between 2 people. If
the presentation to the client is successful the successful candidates may
be required to conduct the actual training. They are looking to get someone
started as soon as possible and can interview very early next week.
>
The successful candidate will have  a proven track record of
his/her abilities and will need a very strong understanding of hardware /
software encryption. The training will be aimed at security and will be
formed around security standards already in place. A knowledge of NT, Unix
and Firewall would therefore be advantageous.
>
if you would be interested in hearing further details on this position,
please contact me on 01483 883315 or via E mail. Due to the deadline this
company are working to a speedy response is required. Don't forget you can
AIR MILES rewards by referring a friend or colleague to Elan.
>
I hope to hear from you shortly.
>

Morven McLauchlan
Elan Computing 01483 883308
Visit Elan's relaunched web site WWW.Elan.co.uk   

  

Morven McLauchlan
Elan Computing 01483 883308
Visit Elan's relaunched web site WWW.Elan.co.uk   

 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Soren 
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 06:52:24 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Replay
Message-ID: <35F91060.1DA7BFC3@workmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Why isn't remailer@replay.com posting to cypherpunks?  I've sent several
and none have shown up -- rants up in smoke.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Sřren" 
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 07:05:54 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: [Fwd: LFB Book News: EAT THE RICH]
Message-ID: <35F912F2.2C7536E@homemail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Boundary..3996.1071713798.multipart/signed"

--Boundary..3996.1071713798.multipart/signed
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

This may be preaching to the choir,  but for anyone who doesn't know
about http://www.laissezfaire.org ...

To: booknews@laissezfaire.org
Subject: LFB Book News: EAT THE RICH
From: Russell Hanneken 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 17:31:38 -0700

=================================================================
Laissez Faire Books  -  Book News  -  September 10, 1998
Please forward this message to anyone who might be interested.
=================================================================

First 350 with autographed bookplates!

A grand slam from P. J. O'Rourke, the best political humorist
since H. L. Mencken

			  EAT THE RICH
			by P. J. O'Rourke
		 (Atlantic Monthly Press, 1998)

		    HU7872 (hardcover) 246p.
		    Publisher's price: $24.00
		    Our price normally $16.95
	  SPECIAL SALE PRICE, LIMITED TIME ONLY: $14.41

(reviewed by Jim Powell)

Everything P. J. O'Rourke writes makes you smile, but I'd rate
EAT THE RICH as his best book, better even than his super-seller
PARLIAMENT OF WHORES.  The political content is very high, and
the book is loaded with great lines.  Open to a page, any page,
and you'll soon find something wonderful--not just wit, but
passion as well.

O'Rourke offers uproarious commentary about fashionable
politicians, intellectuals and dogmas in Albania, Sweden, Cuba,
Russia, Tanzania and Shanghai as well as the United States.  
A sampler:

    "I had one fundamental question about economics: Why are some
    places prosperous and thriving while others just suck?  It's
    not a matter of brains.  No part of the earth (with the
    possible exception of Brentwood) is dumber than Beverly
    Hills, and the residents are wading in gravy.  Meanwhile in
    Russia, where chess is a spectator sport, they're boiling
    stones for soup."

    "Microeconomics concerns things that economists are
    specifically wrong about, while macroeconomics concerns
    things economists are wrong about generally.  Or, to be more
    technical, microeconomics is about money you don't have, and
    macroeconomics is about money the government is out of."

    "Government does not cause affluence.  Citizens of
    totalitarian countries have plenty of government and nothing
    of anything else."

    "And technology provides no guarantee of creature comforts.
    The most wretched locales in the world are well-supplied with
    complex and up-to-date technology--in the form of weapons."

    "Nationalization does to goods and services what divorce does
    to male parents--suddenly they're absent most of the time and
    useless the rest."

    "Altruism towards strangers is mostly a sentimental and
    fleeting thing, a small check dashed off to Save the
    Children.  Twenty billion dollars worth of it is rare.  In
    the Cold War days, of course, we were giving money to
    Tanzania on the theory of: 'Pay them to be socialist so they
    won't be communist and figure out what the difference is
    later.'  But now, I'm afraid, the ugly truth is that we care
    about Tanzanians because they have cool animals."

    "The Russian stuff is no good.  Even the smallest, simplest
    items stink.  The way you use a Russian match is: After you
    strike it, you put it back in the matchbox.  It's as likely
    to work as any of the other matches in there.  In the old
    days the soda pop tasted like soap, the soap lathered like
    toilet paper, the toilet paper could be used to sand
    furniture, the furniture was as comfortable as a pile of
    canned goods, the canned goods had the flavor of a
    Solzhenitsyn novel, and a Solzhenitsyn novel got you arrested
    if you owned one."

    "How a peaceful, uncrowded place with ample wherewithal stays
    poor is hard to explain.  How a conflict-ridden, grossly
    over-populated place with no resources whatsoever gets rich
    is simple.  The British colonial government turned Hong Kong
    into an economic miracle by doing nothing."

    "So if wealth is not a world-wide round-robin of purse
    snatching, and if the thing that makes you rich doesn't make
    me poor, why should we care about fairness at all?  We
    shouldn't."

    "If we want the whole world to be rich, we need to start
    loving wealth.  In the difference between poverty and plenty,
    the problem is the poverty and not the difference.  Wealth is
    good."

As these delightful selections suggest, nobody today has a more
gifted pen than P. J. O'Rourke.  You'll love this book.

=================================================================

EAT THE RICH
HU7872 (hardcover) 246p.
Publisher's price: $24.00
Our price normally $16.95
SPECIAL SALE PRICE, LIMITED TIME ONLY: $14.41

=================================================================

How to order from Laissez Faire Books:

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-----------------------------------------------------------------
Russell Hanneken                              Laissez Faire Books
russell@laissezfaire.org                 http://laissezfaire.org/





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sfjcXyMmCZGAc9AUG95DqYMl8uacLxXK/qarigd1iwzdUYRr5PjRzneigTGC
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AwIaBQCggbEwGAYJKoZIhvcNAQkDMQsGCSqGSIb3DQEHATAcBgkqhkiG9w0B
CQUxDxcNOTgwOTExMTIwOTI0WjAjBgkqhkiG9w0BCQQxFgQUoK3x976i5C/+
6sJtL8Oxg0+2ar0wUgYJKoZIhvcNAQkPMUUwQzAKBggqhkiG9w0DBzAOBggq
hkiG9w0DAgICAIAwBwYFKw4DAgcwDQYIKoZIhvcNAwICAUAwDQYIKoZIhvcN
AwICASgwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQAEgYBZWIVU8JS02MnNJIdVdOaegv22LVlg
XsPw5uF1U5SWg2YHkCP74eWmd1yr/r8EApCeJ49MZ/HxavsQLYEWC2YphW5m
6g1p0HS0ccElxkkiobh73G+9HvBjzODlya59kpTghLa1gLhp3DZSdrgXj+qL
06oRASLeP9nOmv0hURT79A==
--Boundary..3996.1071713798.multipart/signed--



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 10:16:31 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: U.S. House only has a T-1
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




          http://cgi.pathfinder.com/netly/0,2326,201980911-14598,00.html






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: s9812127@postino.up.ac.za
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 02:00:03 +0800
To: Jrjeffro@aol.com
Subject: Writing skills
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



YoU wR1t3 l1K3 tH1s aGa1N & 1'll f1@m3 you, dickhead...
> From:          Jrjeffro@aol.com
> Date:          Wed, 9 Sep 1998 19:27:05 -0700 (PDT)
> Bcc:           

> HaCkaZ OnlY Da EliTeHelLO YaLL DiS is Da MaDD AAOOLL HaCka Ima startin a GreWp fOR HaCs Only So In OthA WerDS yA gOttA KnOw The WAreZ anD HoW toO UsEr FaTe AnD AOL So MaIl Or Im Me FoR Da TeTaIls 
f
> YeR LeeTo K Pe@CE FrOmE The LeeTs HacKJeFFrO)
> >
> 
-/"Those who desire to give up freedom in 
-/exchange for security will not have,
-/nor do they deserve, either one." - Thomas Jefferson
-/ Crayven.

-/"Those who desire to give up freedom in 
-/exchange for security will not have,
-/nor do they deserve, either one." - Thomas Jefferson
-/ Crayven.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Soren 
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 08:02:51 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Freebies
Message-ID: <35F92098.F414B51E@workmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

While I'm at it, here are some other entertaining and educational sites:

 Protocols
(this one is for all you conspiracy junkies)

 Revoking your SSN -or- the
proper use of form 1040

 ...
and how it works in practise (usavlong)

 Want to put your money where
your mouth is?

 World's smallest political
quiz

 ... and lets not
leave the whigs out of this ...

 Raisson d'etre


From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: s9813117@postino.up.ac.za
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 02:14:52 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 11:11:28 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: RE: A Cypherpunk Trial, Yes
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 7:52 AM -0700 9/11/98, Trei, Peter wrote:

>	I, too, was suprised to find myself mentioned in
>	one of the postings John Young has highlighted.  I
>	hadn't noticed this before, since Toto's rants
>	were among the 50%+ of cpunks postings I marked as
>	read without actually reading them.

As I've said, I started deleting the posts from Toto, TruthMonger, Human
Gus-Peter, Linda Reed, and other totonyms about a year ago. I did this, "in
toto," one might say. As soon as I saw a long rant with a bunch of odd
stuff, mixtures of caps, references to Country Porn, Space Aliens,
Bienfait, etc., I hit the delete button.

But before this, I saw of course that we were playing starring roles in his
fantastical rants.

And Toto often forged our names on his rants and threats. I count this as a
kind of blessing, in that any attempt to prosecute us based on our posts
will run smack into this forgery issue...at least a speed bump in the
process of proving in court that some text fragment was actually written by
someone they claim it was written by.


>
>	The Poster Currently Known As Toto mentioned an
>	awful lot of people by name, purportedly engaged
>	in all kinds of nefarious activities.  The same
>	post also names Tim May, Adam Back, Declan
>	McCullagh, Ulf Moller, Kent Crispen, and Blanc
>	Weber. I'm let off easy, being characterized
>	as only a 'terroist [sic] InterNet forger'.
>	I think that this is because I once complained
>	when someone (possibly Toto) forged a message
>	in my name. To put it in the plainest possible
>	terms: I have never in my life forged a message.

Yep. I expect several of us may get subpoenas in this case. Either to
refute what is claimed, to support what is claimed, or just to clarify who
wrote what.

I plan to rely only on my memory. If they want me to try to reconstruct my
own e-mail archives, currently resident on several different disk drives,
some on CD-ROM, some in my gun safe, some in my safe deposit box, well,
this would require much work on my part. I presume they'll pay my
consulting fees for doing this work. Otherwise, it'll be just my memory.

"No, I have no direct recollection of the post you mention...."

--Tim May

(This space left blank pending determ. of acceptability to the gov't.)
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 11:31:11 +0800
To: John Young 
Subject: Re: U.S. House only has a T-1
In-Reply-To: <199809111556.LAA02877@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Well, let me just say this: We expect to have the document in electronic
form as early as possible. 

Also, while we're not relying on AP, the company is making the file
available on a passworded FTP site for its members. And FNS is promising
to OCR it if necessary and send it to its subscribers this evening for
$85. 

-Declan


On Fri, 11 Sep 1998, John Young wrote:

> Good piece, Declan. Is Time getting access to the restricted
> Congressional Web site which offers the Starr report early for
> members only drooling? Or are the major mediums getting
> preferential copies in concert with the deliberately under-provided
> House/Thomas/GPO rigs?
> 
> These are the four public access sites given by the NYT today,
> which notes that no one yet knows the digital format -- text,
> word processor or PDF images:
> 
>     http://www.house.gov/icreport/ (House Information Resources) 
> 
>     http://www.house.gov/judiciary (House Judiciary Committee) 
> 
>     http://thomas.loc.gov/icreport/ (Library of Congress) 
> 
>     http://www.access.gpo.gov/congress/icreport/ (Government Printing Office) 
> 
> If its PDF then the delay is surely deliberately planned to favor
> those with scratchback access.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 09:44:33 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com
Subject: Re: Happy Fourth
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 6:11 PM -0500 9/10/98, Michael Motyka wrote:
>I'm -almost- ready to admit defeat and move on.
>
>> Did you see the part where I mention that I am (a) an ex-marine,
>IMHO Marines burn just like the rest of us wimps. They just don't scream
>as much.

	Yeah, but the part you cut was about being afraid of fire. I am
not, I respect it, but it doesn't frighten me.

>> You ever seen 3000 gallons of jet fuel burn,
>AOED the biggest fire I've seen was the fire here in CA last month. 6-8
>Million tires. Nobody had the balls to put that one out. At peak 1000X
>your jet fuel deal. Scary. Very.

	Yeah, but the 3000 gals. of waste fuel was deliberate, for training.

	Burning tires really suck. Almost impossible to get water, or any
coolant down into where the fire is burning, and the heating of the rubber
gives of some really noxious fumes.

>> 5 gals. of burning gasoline is NOT a problem.
>ISASI ( it sure as shit is ) if you're wearing it on your back.
>> 5 Gals. cooking off in a sealed container IS a problem.
>FYI 5 ounces mixed with compressed air in a metal container could easily
>be fatal.

	If you read my original post again, I talk about this very problem.

>> Fuck you.
>Yes, yes, PTMYT ( pleased to meet you too ).

	You suggested that I belong on AOL. I say again, Fuck You.

>Remember, shit draws flies. There'll just be more geniuses asking how to

	This is cypherpunks, we talk about what we want. Ask Tim.

>make noncryptographic devices. I would enjoy some crypto-tech talk.

	Ok, how about using fires as a source of entropy?

>Found any cool primitive polynomials lately? Got a good block cipher
>with a 4096 bit block size and an even bigger key space? Got some time
>to donate to actually put together some good HW/SW systems?

	Nope, not right now.

petro@playboy.com----for work related issues. I don't speak for Playboy.
petro@bounty.org-----for everthing else.      They wouldn't like that.
                                              They REALLY
Economic speech IS political speech.          wouldn't like that.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 11:35:53 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: radio net (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A19284623@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
Message-ID: <35F951FA.71B@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Hi Bill,

Bill Stewart wrote:

> Not per se, though there _is_ still one major restriction -
> the Defense Department gets a crack at patent applications,
> so if you try to patent a crypto algorithm or crypto phone,
> they can seize and classify your patent application and
> working materials, using the excuse of "national security".
>
I suppose we need more altruistic gestures placing good stuff into the
public domain.

> Sure there are - my $150 cordless phone uses spread-spectrum,
> partly for better sound quality, partly for better privacy,
> and partly because it's simpler than picking individual channels.
>
The security is only between the handset and the base unit. Once the
signal hits the POTS it's the same old story - open line.

ALSO - the channels and the hopping sequence used in the
"spread-spectrum" systems are predefined. Kind of like making a stream
cipher with a very short bitstream you got from the government printing
orifice. Using any other sequence is a crime.

The real purpose of the spread spectrum phones is to allow increased
signal levels. The security is not robust.

Try this one:

Not particularly original - I would guess that Tim's 3DES phone is
something like this.

Wal Mart Plastics for the housing ( ever tooled plastics? $$$ )
Custom board
	Dedicated DSP for voice compression/decompression
	Modem chipset for POTS connect ( direct or ISP )
	Fast microP for encryption/protocol
	Any encryption algorithm you desire
	Software Developer's Kit ( roll your own algorithm )

This will work very nicely at home or with any cell phone that has a
modem port. It's really nothing but a dedicated version of a PC based
PGP phone. It's just smaller and cheaper than a PC and has no MS DLLs on
it.

Regards,
Mike




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Trei, Peter" 
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 08:42:42 +0800
To: "'Bill Stewart'" 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




	Bill wrote:
	> KPMG is a relatively-unmarked building at the corner of
	> Middlefield Rd. and Ellis St. in Mountain View, surrounded by
Netscape.
	 
	Reading this, I flashed on an alternate meaning for 
	a second --

	'Surrounded by netscape'... netscaping, the cyberspace
	equivalent of landscaping...

	Just an odd image.


	Peter Trei




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Steve Bryan 
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 09:52:37 +0800
To: Tim May 
Subject: Re: Bits are Bits
In-Reply-To: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A1928463C@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>* Software: OK to resell if license allows it, if original is destroyed, if
>no copies are kept, blah blah blah. (Very complicated.) Not legal to rent
>software since around the mid-80s, when software rental stores stopped.
...
>-- rental of videos is allowed. (Why videos but not CDs? What about books
>on tape? What about books on CD, either audio or CD-ROM?)

Another weird twist in this topic is the "distinction" that is made between
video games for consoles and the same games for computers. It is legal to
rent a PSX title such as Tomb Raider but the same title ported to the PC is
not legal to rent. I read about this a few years ago in an article by Trip
Hawkins, CEO of 3DO, so maybe this information is out of date. But I have
not yet seen CD-ROMs for rent or even available to check out for home use
from the public library. I think this distinction is sometimes confused
because a publisher can choose to allow a CD-ROM title to be rentable but
has to explicitly sanction that. But a publisher of game console CD's
cannot prevent its products from being rented.

Steve Bryan
Vendorsystems International
email: sbryan@vendorsystems.com
icq: 5263678
pgp fingerprint: D758 183C 8B79 B28E 6D4C  2653 E476 82E6 DA7C 9AC5





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 11:57:17 +0800
To: Anonymous 
Subject: Re: Clinton's fake apologies
In-Reply-To: <199809111600.SAA12943@replay.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





On Fri, 11 Sep 1998, Anonymous wrote:

> The annoying thing about Clinton's recent behavior is that he never
> comes right out and apologizes, but the press always says he does.
> 
> Case in point:
> 
> > WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Saying ``I have sinned,'' a tearful President
> > Clinton made an impassioned plea Friday for forgiveness from Monica
> > Lewinsky and others and vowed to fight hard to keep his job.

Reuters' lede seems right:


	First, I want to say to all of you that, as you might imagine, I
have been on quite a journey these last few weeks to get to the end
of this, to the rock bottom truth of where I am and where we all are.
I agree with those who have said that in my first statement after I
testified I was not contrite enough.  I don't think there is a fancy
way to say that I have sinned.
	It is important to me that everybody who has been hurt know that
the sorrow I feel is genuine: first and most important, my family;
also my friends, my staff, my Cabinet, Monica Lewinsky and her
family, and the American people.  I have asked all for their
forgiveness.
	But I believe that to be forgiven, more than sorrow is required
-- at least two more things.  First, genuine repentance -- a
determination to change and to repair breaches of my own making.  I
have repented.  Second, what my bible calls a "broken spirit"; an
understanding that I must have God's help to be the person that I
want to be; a willingness to give the very forgiveness I seek; a
renunciation of the pride and the anger which cloud judgment, lead
people to excuse and compare and to blame and complain.
	Now, what does all this mean for me and for us?  First, I will
instruct my lawyers to mount a vigorous defense, using all available
appropriate arguments.  But legal language must not obscure the fact
that I have done wrong.  Second, I will continue on the path of
repentance, seeking pastoral support and that of other caring people
so that they can hold me accountable for my own commitment.
	Third, I will intensify my efforts to lead our country and the
world toward peace and freedom, prosperity and harmony, in the hope
that with a broken spirit and a still strong heart I can be used for
greater good, for we have many blessings and many challenges and so
much work to do.
	In this, I ask for your prayers and for your help in healing our
nation.  And though I cannot move beyond or forget this -- indeed, I
must always keep it as a caution light in my life -- it is very
important that our nation move forward.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ryan Lackey 
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 09:04:17 +0800
To: Julian Assange 
Subject: Re: cypherpunks archive
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



(Looks like I left at about the right time...)

I'm definitely planning to bring the archive back now that it seems
worthwhile, but I'm highly tempted to move it outside the US.  I'm
giving somone a few more days trying to fix it, and if that fails,
I'll restore the drive physically.  (the problem is that my agent in
the US is being slow, and I'm a bit low on cash after moving hastily...)

Anyone have 1gb of disk space on a machine, optionally with root access,
on a machine with unmetered network access outside the US on which I
could put the archive?

I can put the archive here in AI, but I'll have to charge per megabyte,
as my t1 is metered-use :(  It would end up being something on the order of
$0.50/MB for total traffic, and unfortunately there are no good payment
systems for that kind of thing right now.
-- 
Ryan Lackey
rdl@mit.edu
http://sof.mit.edu/rdl/   <-- brought down by a flakey hd controller or drive




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 10:20:20 +0800
To: Soren 
Subject: Re: Replay
In-Reply-To: <35F91060.1DA7BFC3@workmail.com>
Message-ID: <199809111520.LAA13955@domains.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In <35F91060.1DA7BFC3@workmail.com>, on 09/11/98 
   at 07:58 AM, Soren  said:


>Why isn't remailer@replay.com posting to cypherpunks?  I've sent several
>and none have shown up -- rants up in smoke.

So your this anonymous fellow we have been looking for. :)

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: OS/2: Your brain.  Windows: Your brain on drugs.

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 12:34:49 +0800
To: John Young 
Subject: Re: U.S. House only has a T-1
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



/cat:V/pri:U/sld:A/por:1/for:5/slu:BC-STARRREPORTTEXT Advisory -----
@TEXT
	BC-Starr Report Text, Advisory,0057

	MANAGING EDITORS:

	WIRE EDITORS:

	We are still awaiting the Starr report. We will advise immediately
when the report is available. Until then, please refrain from logging onto
the ftp sites. Otherwise, there is a danger of jamming the sites and
preventing us from posting the report.
	The AP

	APTV-09-11-98 1330EDT
	  





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 10:19:26 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Rental of PC software...
Message-ID: <199809111540.KAA11397@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Hi,

For those of you who believe it is completely illegal to rent PC software
should contact:

Star Techs
9222 Burnet Rd.
Austin, Tx.
512-719-4263

(sorry for the earlier mis-spelling of the name)

I'll also forward a reference regarding loaning copyrighted material and
who owns the rights to decide whether it is allowed or not.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 10:42:18 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: Rental of PC software...
In-Reply-To: <199809111540.KAA11397@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <199809111542.LAA14230@domains.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In <199809111540.KAA11397@einstein.ssz.com>, on 09/11/98 
   at 10:40 AM, Jim Choate  said:

>For those of you who believe it is completely illegal to rent PC software
>should contact:

>Star Techs
>9222 Burnet Rd.
>Austin, Tx.
>512-719-4263

>(sorry for the earlier mis-spelling of the name)

>I'll also forward a reference regarding loaning copyrighted material and
>who owns the rights to decide whether it is allowed or not.

We used to have a store here called AtoZ Software that opened up a couple
of years back. They were srtictly a software rental store and were doing
*very* good business from it. They ran into quite a bit of trouble (SPA et
al) over it. I didn't follow it too close but I don't think that they rent
software any more. :(

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: It's OS/2, Jim, but not OS/2 as we know it.

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Trei, Peter" 
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 09:50:59 +0800
To: "'Graham-John Bullers'" 
Subject: RE: A Cypherpunk Trial, Yes
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




	Graham-John Bullers [SMTP:real@EDMC.net] wrote:

	>As i'am one of persons mention in Toto's posts I
	>would just like to say I think the posts were a
	>joke.  With the help of of Vullis I was a pain to
	>the list and this was Toto's way of acknowledging
	>this To the government readers of this list,the
	>cigar was Cuban,will you put Bill in the cell with
	>Toto.

	I, too, was suprised to find myself mentioned in
	one of the postings John Young has highlighted.  I
	hadn't noticed this before, since Toto's rants
	were among the 50%+ of cpunks postings I marked as
	read without actually reading them.

	The Poster Currently Known As Toto mentioned an
	awful lot of people by name, purportedly engaged
	in all kinds of nefarious activities.  The same
	post also names Tim May, Adam Back, Declan
	McCullagh, Ulf Moller, Kent Crispen, and Blanc
	Weber. I'm let off easy, being characterized 
	as only a 'terroist [sic] InterNet forger'. 
	I think that this is because I once complained 
	when someone (possibly Toto) forged a message 
	in my name. To put it in the plainest possible
	terms: I have never in my life forged a message.

	Peter Trei




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 10:56:55 +0800
To: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Subject: Re: SNET: [FP] Alaska: Nearly 93% of new parents choose Enumeration At Birth (EAB)
In-Reply-To: <199809110836.BAA11054@netcom13.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <199809111557.LAA14444@domains.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In <199809110836.BAA11054@netcom13.netcom.com>, on 09/11/98 
   at 01:36 AM, "Vladimir Z. Nuri"  said:

>This program has proven to be so popular with new parents that
>nearly 93% of all births transmitted to the Bureau request a social
>security number.

Of all the evils governments have done over the years, by far the worst
was convincing the slaves that they were really free.

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: Dos: Venerable.  Windows: Vulnerable.  OS/2: Viable.

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 11:02:23 +0800
To: John Young 
Subject: Re: U.S. House only has a T-1
In-Reply-To: <199809111556.LAA02877@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <199809111602.MAA14549@domains.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In <199809111556.LAA02877@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>, on 09/11/98 
   at 11:50 AM, John Young  said:

>If its PDF then the delay is surely deliberately planned to favor those
>with scratchback access.

Well, considering that congress is still debating how much of the report
(if any) will go public I doubt that there are any great backscratching
conspiracies afoot.

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: When DOS grows up it wants to be OS/2!

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visY22/Z6fw=
=S9J9
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 10:51:08 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Copyright - Who has the right to loan?
Message-ID: <199809111613.LAA11683@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 10:56:22 +0800
To: Declan McCullagh 
Subject: Re: U.S. House only has a T-1
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199809111556.LAA02877@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Good piece, Declan. Is Time getting access to the restricted
Congressional Web site which offers the Starr report early for
members only drooling? Or are the major mediums getting
preferential copies in concert with the deliberately under-provided
House/Thomas/GPO rigs?

These are the four public access sites given by the NYT today,
which notes that no one yet knows the digital format -- text,
word processor or PDF images:

    http://www.house.gov/icreport/ (House Information Resources) 

    http://www.house.gov/judiciary (House Judiciary Committee) 

    http://thomas.loc.gov/icreport/ (Library of Congress) 

    http://www.access.gpo.gov/congress/icreport/ (Government Printing Office) 

If its PDF then the delay is surely deliberately planned to favor
those with scratchback access.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 10:51:21 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: RE: A Cypherpunk Trial, Yes
Message-ID: <199809111551.LAA25938@panix7.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



   >   	Graham-John Bullers [SMTP:real@EDMC.net] wrote:
   >
   >   	>As i'am one of persons mention in Toto's posts I
   >   	>would just like to say I think the posts were a
   >   	>joke.  With the help of of Vullis I was a pain to
   >   	>the list and this was Toto's way of acknowledging
   >   	>this.
   >
   >    > To the government readers of this list...

Ah, yes, the good old days when Vulis was here.
---guy



*  Re: State Charges in Weaver Case
*
*  Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM (dlv@bwalk.dm.com)
*  Fri, 22 Aug 97 02:09:13 EDT
*
*  Mike Duvos  writes:
*  >
*  > Shouldn't it be ... involuntary
*  > manslaughter for using possibly excessive force against an armed
*  > attacker?
*
*  No, it should be a $100 reward for icing a motherfucking fed.
*
*  ---
*
*  Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
*  Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps


...and elsewhere in Usenet...

...soliciting funds for terrorist groups to kill a jewish couple:
 
#   Subject:      The final solution for the premature ejaculation problem
#   From:         shlomo@bwalk.dm.com (Rabbi Shlomo Ruthenberg)
#   Date:         1996/06/05
#   Organization: Young Israel of Red Hook
#   Newsgroups:   soc.culture.israel,soc.culture.jewish,alt.religion.islam,
#             alt.politics.white-Power,alt.2600,alt.revenge,alt.revisionism
#
#
#      As a religious Jew, I am shocked that none of: Hamas / Hizballah /
#      Party of God / Revolutionary Justice Organization / Organization
#      for the Oppressed on Earth / Islamic Jihad for the Liberation of
#      Palestine / Popular Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine
#      / Ansar Allah / Palestine Liberation Front / Followers of the
#      Prophet Muhammad / Revolutionary Organization of Socialist Muslims
#      / Fatah Revolutionary Council / Arab Revolutionary Brigades /
#      Islamic Resistance Movement / Vanguards of Conquest (whew!) have
#      gotten around porking the Jewish Fascist Yoni Kamens or his zonah
#      wife. You can help by mailing your donations (cash only) to:
#
#      Dr. Ramadan Abdullah Mohamed Shallah
#      Dr. Musa Abu-Marzuq
#      c/o Arab Republic of Palestine Mission to the United Nations
#      115 E 65 St, New York, NY 10023, tel: (212) 288-8500
#
#      Be sure to mark all envelopes "for the Yoni Kamens fund"!




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "J. Michael" 
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 13:52:29 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Starr report
Message-ID: <19980911185240.16578.qmail@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



http://www.cnn.com/starr.report/

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Martin Minow 
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 13:57:27 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: U.S. House only has a T-1
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>From Jim Burns:
>
>Is there any effort underway to mirror the report to various
>archives?  This is going to kill the DC internet corridor
>otherwise.
>
What I heard on the radio this morning was that the house
will press CD's that will be distributed to mirror servers
(presumably the major Internet news providers.)

Now, the real interesting question: will the files be
PGP-signed?

Martin Minow
minow@pobox.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 14:11:00 +0800
To: Jim Burnes 
Subject: Re: U.S. House only has a T-1
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 11:42 AM -0700 9/11/98, Jim Burnes wrote:
>On Fri, 11 Sep 1998, Declan McCullagh wrote:
>
>etc delete....
>
>Declan:
>
>Is there any effort underway to mirror the report to various
>archives?  This is going to kill the DC internet corridor
>otherwise.

Turn on the television. All of the networks and news stations are mirroring
it. The ones I've tried, cnn.com, foxnews.com, etc., are also swamped.
However, the talking heads--no pun intended--are all reading the sordid
details about Clinton's cigar being inserted into Monica's vagina, about
how Clinton talked with Congressional leaders while Monica was giving him a
blowjob, and how Clinton suborned perjury and tampered with evidence....

"The guy is going down...in more ways than one."

BTW, I had heard Matt Drudge on the cigar issue before Declan visited a few
weeks ago. I was able to "break" this story to Declan, no mean feat.

--Tim May

(This space left blank pending determ. of acceptability to the gov't.)
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 14:15:37 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: RE: Rental of PC software...
Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A19284646@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




USC Title 17 § 109 subsec (b)(1)(A)

...unless authorized by the ...owner of copyright in a computer program
(including any tape, disk, or other medium embodying such program),
...[no] person in possession of a particular copy of a computer program
(including any tape, disk, or other medium embodying such program), may,
for the purposes of direct or indirect commercial advantage, dispose of,
or authorize the disposal of, the possession of that ...computer program
(including any tape, disk, or other medium embodying such program) by
rental, lease, or lending, or by any other act or practice in the nature
of rental, lease, or lending. ... The transfer of possession of a
lawfully made copy of a computer program by a nonprofit educational
institution to another nonprofit educational institution or to faculty,
staff, and students does not constitute rental, lease, or lending for
direct or indirect commercial purposes under this subsection. 
(B) This subsection does not apply to - 
(i) a computer program which is embodied in a machine or product and
which cannot be copied during the ordinary operation or use of the
machine or product; or 
(ii) a computer program embodied in or used in conjunction with a
limited purpose computer that is designed for playing video games and
may be designed for other purposes. 
...
(2)(A) Nothing in this subsection shall apply to the lending of a
computer program for nonprofit purposes by a nonprofit library, if each
copy of a computer program which is lent by such library has affixed to
the packaging containing the program a warning of copyright in
accordance with requirements that the Register of Copyrights shall
prescribe by regulation. 
(B) Not later than three years after the date of the enactment of the
Computer Software Rental Amendments Act of 1990, and at such times
thereafter as the Register of Copyright considers appropriate, the
Register of Copyrights, after consultation with representatives of
copyright owners and librarians, shall submit to the Congress a report
stating whether this paragraph has achieved its intended purpose of
maintaining the integrity of the copyright system while providing
nonprofit libraries the capability to fulfill their function. Such
report shall advise the Congress as to any information or
recommendations that the Register of Copyrights considers necessary to
carry out the purposes of this subsection. 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Carol Anne Cypherpunk 
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 12:33:32 +0800
To: Ray Arachelian 
Subject: Re: Fighting DMV clerical errors in NYC:
In-Reply-To: <35F9594E.6CCD7C2F@brainlink.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980911123006.006ddfc4@pop.primenet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

As a former NYC cabbie, the best way to resolve a DMV dispute
is to take the train to Albany and deal with it there. This way you
can access higher and higher levels of the DMV until the problem
is fixed. Albany has no where near the level of hassle that NY has.

cab8

At 01:09 PM 9/11/98 -0400, you wrote:
>
>A friend of mine asked me to forward this question to you guys:
>
>IMHO he needs a good lawyer, but maybe someone here knows mor
Member Internet Society  - Certified Mining Co. Guide  -  Webmistress
***********************************************************************
Carol Anne Braddock (cab8)  carolann@censored.org   206.165.50.96
My Homepage
The Cyberdoc
***********************************************************************
Will lobby Congress for Food & Expenses!!!
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP Personal Privacy 6.0
Comment: Totally uncensored from censored.org

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znj/4ya+s8pHMj8tCl9o6tGy
=RdDc
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Burnes 
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 13:39:02 +0800
To: Declan McCullagh 
Subject: Re: U.S. House only has a T-1
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain






On Fri, 11 Sep 1998, Declan McCullagh wrote:

etc delete....

Declan:

Is there any effort underway to mirror the report to various
archives?  This is going to kill the DC internet corridor
otherwise.

jim burnes





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mok-Kong Shen 
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 06:04:52 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: radio net (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A19284623@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
Message-ID: <35F903D8.3E787140@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Bill Stewart wrote:
> 
> Not per se, though there _is_ still one major restriction -
> the Defense Department gets a crack at patent applications,
> so if you try to patent a crypto algorithm or crypto phone,
> they can seize and classify your patent application and
> working materials, using the excuse of "national security".
> There was a case in the late 70s where somebody tried to patent
> a wimpy analog scrambler for CB radios, and got it seized,
> and a number of patent applications that got delayed a long time.

It seems then to be advisable to apply for international patents
simultaneously. One can e.g. apply for a European patent that is 
valid for a number of countries.

M. K. Shen




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Trei, Peter" 
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 12:07:54 +0800
To: "'Steve Bryan'" 
Subject: RE: Bits are Bits
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Steve Bryan [SMTP:sbryan@vendorsystems.com]
	[...]
>  But I have not yet seen CD-ROMs for rent or even available to 
> check out for home use  from the public library. 
	[...]
	[forgive the lame quoting format - I'm using
	a Microsoft product.]

	I was in my town library yesterday, and they
	were loaning CDROMs. I was in a hurry, so did
	not check the details. At least one was made by
	National Geographic. (BTW: You can get the *entire*
	*run* of NG on CDROM, which I think is pretty neat.)

	Peter Trei




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ray Arachelian 
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 12:12:34 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Fighting DMV clerical errors in NYC:
Message-ID: <35F9594E.6CCD7C2F@brainlink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



A friend of mine asked me to forward this question to you guys:

IMHO he needs a good lawyer, but maybe someone here knows more:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Any particular thing you want to fight @ the DMV or just in general?

They are preventing me from renewing my license due to a clerical error they 
made over a year ago. Since I did not respond to their letter (I didn't 
understand what they were talking about) they suspended my license. That 
caused my insurance company to drop me. When I renewed my insurance (a 
second error, if you have a suspension you can not get insurance) they told 
me it was cleared.

I need to talk to someone who can help me resolve this without me having to 
hand in my license and plate for the 90 day penalty


-- 

=====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos==============
.+.^.+.|  Ray Arachelian    |Prying open my 3rd eye.  So good to see |./|\.
..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were      |/\|/\
<--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run  |\/|\/
../|\..| "A toast to Odin,  |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/.
.+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were....            |.....
======================= http://www.sundernet.com ==========================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Fisher Mark 
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 13:10:43 +0800
To: "'Ray Arachelian'" 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Ray Arachelian writes:
>Just out of curiosity what are prices around where you guys live?

Prices here range from .97-.99 for name brands (Shell, etc.) and around .89
for no-name brands right now.
==========================================================
Mark Leighton Fisher          Thomson Consumer Electronics
fisherm@indy.tce.com          Indianapolis, IN
"Their walls are built of cannon balls, their motto is
'Don't Tread on Me'"


> .
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Steve Bryan 
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 13:37:09 +0800
To: "Trei, Peter" 
Subject: RE: Bits are Bits
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>> -----Original Message-----
>> From:	Steve Bryan [SMTP:sbryan@vendorsystems.com]
>	[...]
>>  But I have not yet seen CD-ROMs for rent or even available to
>> check out for home use  from the public library.
>	[...]
>	[forgive the lame quoting format - I'm using
>	a Microsoft product.]
>
>	I was in my town library yesterday, and they
>	were loaning CDROMs. I was in a hurry, so did
>	not check the details. At least one was made by
>	National Geographic. (BTW: You can get the *entire*
>	*run* of NG on CDROM, which I think is pretty neat.)
>
>	Peter Trei

They have CD-ROM's at our local public library but only for use at the
library. It isn't possible to check them out for use at home. I don't know
if this is a legal issue or just a matter of policy but it is annoying.

Steve Bryan
Vendorsystems International
email: sbryan@vendorsystems.com
icq: 5263678
pgp fingerprint: D758 183C 8B79 B28E 6D4C  2653 E476 82E6 DA7C 9AC5





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 16:15:07 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Web sites preparing for Starr report onslaught
Message-ID: <199809112115.OAA15319@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Web sites preparing for Starr report onslaught
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 06:40:46 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  Fox News - AP

Web sites preparing for Starr report onslaught
 2.42 a.m. ET (642 GMT) September 11, 1998

 By Chris Allbritton, Associated Press

 NEW YORK (AP) - Web surfers hoping to view portions of Independent Counsel
Kenneth Starr's report when it goes online today instead may need to wait
in line. 

 An expert in high-volume Web sites said millions of Web surfers -
clustered around Web sites like people used to cluster around teletype
machines waiting for the latest dispatches from news wire services -
probably will swamp the government's computers. 

 "I would imagine a lot of people getting a 'Site Not Available'
(message),'' said J.D. Zeeman, who coordinated IBM's Web site for the
Winter Olympics in Nagano, Japan, earlier this year. 

 At one point, the Olympics site was getting more than 110,000 hits a
minute, Zeeman said. 

 By Thursday afternoon, the crush of people visiting the House's Web site -
called Thomas - prompted this message: "The Library of Congress is aware of
public statements announcing the availability of the Independent Counsel's
report at this site. As yet, the House of Representatives has taken no
action regarding the public availability of this report.'' 

 A House vote on releasing the report was planned for today. 

 "The technology exists to handle this kind of load today, but it literally
takes months to get it in place,'' Zeeman said. "Unless they've done
something, I wouldn't imagine they would be adequately prepared.'' 

 A congressional source said the House is adequately prepared, posting the
report on government sites and distributing formatted copies to Web sites
of major newspapers, magazines, The Associated Press and other news
services, and online outlets such as America Online and Yahoo! 

 The Web has become a popular way to distribute government documents in the
past few years, but the last time a government body tried to release
red-hot documents on the Web, it was a disaster. It was the case of Louise
Woodward, the British au pair accused of murder. 

 In November 1997, Massachusetts Superior Court Judge Hiller B. Zobel said
he would release on the Web his decision to reduce Woodward's conviction to
manslaughter. Millions on both sides of the Atlantic who had followed the
story eagerly anticipated the first online release of a criminal court
ruling. 

 But a power outage delayed the ruling for hours, and heavy traffic at Web
sites made it almost impossible for people to read the decision once it was
online. 

 The foul-up with the Woodward decision, while embarrassing, was not
unique. News sites usually slow down, or even crash, when the always
increasing number of Web surfers rushes online for news. It happened during
the Woodward case, after the death of Princess Diana and during the recent
gyrations of the stock market. 

 The slowdowns are just the nature of news on the Internet. The parallel is
a newspaper that assigns many reporters to a major story such as the
Oklahoma City bombing, or printing a lengthy report by an independent
counsel. 

 "I guess when you think of throwing all sorts of reporters on a story,
you're straining resources,'' said Ruth Gersh, editor of AP's multimedia
services. "If you put up the report on the Web, it uses up resources which
we call bandwidth.'' 

 Congressional leaders expect the report to be available this afternoon
through these government Web addresses: 

 -http://thomas.loc.gov/icreport 

 -http://www.house.gov/icreport 

                  (c) 1998 Associated Press. All rights reserved.
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




**********************************************
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with the message:
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**********************************************
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**********************************************




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 16:15:08 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Privacy: Companies admit spying on staff
Message-ID: <199809112115.OAA15330@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Privacy: Companies admit spying on staff
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 12:14:18 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  The Age (Australia)
http://www.theage.com.au:80/daily/980910/news/news19.html

Companies admit spying on staff 

By LEON GETTLER 

More than one in two of Australia's largest companies carry out
video surveillance of their employees and the general public, a
survey has found.

The survey revealed that 94 per cent of the companies also
monitored employees' phone conversations, electronic mail and
Internet usage although the focus appeared to be mostly on
volume and frequency rather than content.

For example, 16 per cent monitored phone usage while the
conversations themselves were only monitored by 2 per cent.
Similarly, email usage was monitored by 13 per cent while 6 per
cent of the companies were combing through the actual
messages. Scrutiny of Internet usage would also reveal the web
sites that employees had visited.

The PricewaterhouseCoopers survey found that 65 per cent of
companies regarded monitoring as a normal part of employment
and 85 per had informed their employees that they were being
watched. However, they were often not as forthcoming about
seemingly minor details, like time and place.

PricewaterhouseCoopers information and security partner Mr
Stephen Woolley said there was a better than 50-50 chance that
Australians would be filmed or recorded at some stage during
the day. In the case of the general public, it would be without
their consent.

``As is the practice of companies both here and overseas, this
information will probably go on file for some years,'' Mr
Woolley said.

About half the companies said information gathered in Australia
on customers, employees and the general public was sent
overseas for international data bases.

The study also revealed alarming gaps in the privacy guidelines
of some companies.

Only 35 per cent had formally documented privacy policies in
place and 38 per cent said they did not undertake any
monitoring to ensure compliance with in-house privacy
guidelines. Eight out of 10 organisations did not require staff to
undertake privacy training.

The survey covered 65 of Australia's largest companies spanning
across all major industries including utilities, telecommunications,
natural resources, retail, credit, banking and finance, insurance
and manufacturing.

Based on their total turnover and size of assets, the companies
that responded to the survey would represent more than half of
corporate Australia.

More than one in 10 companies did not inform staff that they
could be monitored.
 
Published by The Age Online Pty Ltd ACN 069 962 885
(c)1998 David Syme & Co Ltd 
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




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To subscribe or unsubscribe, email:
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**********************************************




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 16:14:55 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: SNET: Plans for internet banks in Australia, says Ernst & Young
Message-ID: <199809112115.OAA15341@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: jeremy.compton@stonebow.otago.ac.nz (Jeremy Compton)
Subject: SNET: Plans for internet banks in Australia, says Ernst & Young
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 03:04:23 +1200
To: snetnews@world.std.com


->  SNETNEWS  Mailing List

Plans for internet banks in Australia, says Ernst & Young

Sydney, Sept 9 AAP - Offshore and local companies have strategic plans to
establish stand alone
Internet banks in Australia to compete with the existing banking network,
financial services
consultants Ernst & Young said today.

Ernst & Young partner Andrew Keene, who specialises in technology strategy
for financial
institutions, said the international consulting firm was aware of both
overseas and domestic
companies with plans for internet banks.

"There are some plans that we are aware of," Mr Keene told reporters. "I
believe most of the plans
are formative."

He declined to name the companies.

Ernst & Young yesterday released its latest report on technology in banking
and financial services,
with more t0 of the world's largest financial institutions in 26 countries
participating in the seventh
global study.

Entitled Electronic Commerce and Connecting to the Customer, the report
analyses the technology
spending plans of banks, insurance companies, asset management and
brokerage institutions in the
United States, Europe, Asia and Australia.

The report found that technology spending priorities of Australia's
financial institutions to develop
new customer channels have been surpassed by the "more immediate issues" of
mergers and
acquisitions, the millennium bug and the Euro.

Kevin Hall, the national leader of Ernst & Young's Australian financial
services consulting group,
said that the new spending priorities "have meant that spending on the
critical area of improved
customer services has been delayed".

He said that the report found that financial institutions are "anticipating
heavy increases" in
technology spending, with technology budgets rising 14 percent in calendar
1998, tapering off to six
percent by 2001.

"But while spending rates will decline over time, the actual budget amounts
will continue to increase,
with actual budgets project to double between 1992 and 2000," he said.

However, technology budgets are predominantly being spent on mandated
projects such as computer
upgrades to avoid the Year 2000 software date problem.

The survey also found that only 12 percent of Australian institutions
believed that the internet will
help them retain customers and business, compared to 47 percent of US
respondents and 34 percent
of European respondents.

Russell Ives, a data warehouse specialist at the firm, said that Australian
banks view Internet services
such as electronic commerce or e-commerce as cost-saving devices whereas US
banks used it to
"focus on retaining customers".

"The great opportunity that exists for financial institutions in Australia
is to refocus their e-commerce
strategy towards customer retention," said Mr Hall, adding that some
institutions are "unsure how to
use" e-commerce.

Australian financial institutions are also behind their overseas
counterparts in integrating customer
data to develop sophisticated knowledge of customer needs to enhance the
cross-selling of products
and target services.

"Nobody has really integrated its completely," Mr Hall said of Australian
financial institutions.

Mr Ives said that banks have to advance data integration rapidly,
especially when it comes to
refocusing e-commerce strategies on customer retention.

Overseas banks such as Wells Fargo, Bank of Montreal and ING Bank are some
of the leaders in
e-commerce and internet.

"So our conclusion is that the most effective financial institutions will
develop alliances to deliver
electronic commerce," Mr Keene said.

AAP pjg 10/09/98 08-09NZ

(c) New Zealand Press Association



-> Send "subscribe   snetnews " to majordomo@world.std.com
->  Posted by: jeremy.compton@stonebow.otago.ac.nz (Jeremy Compton)




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: jimg@mentat.com (Jim Gillogly)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 16:27:30 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Clinton's fake apologies
Message-ID: <199809112128.OAA14441@zendia.mentat.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Yes, there's crypto content in this msg... a passing reference four
paragraphs down.

Somebody said:
> The annoying thing about Clinton's recent behavior is that he never
> comes right out and apologizes, but the press always says he does.
Somebody goes on to do the whole Apology Watch number in detail.

It doesn't matter.  One commentator a few weeks ago had a good line
for it: "All mea and no culpa."  But so what?  This whole apology watch
is totally meaningless.  We know he can perform sincere-looking speeches
on demand, and that's largely why we elected him.  If he gives another
one and says this time that he's really   sorry and he's
guilty as hell, I couldn't be more impressed.  Or less.  What he says
about it is irrelevant.

This whole "sex scandal" thing is ludicrous also -- we knew he was a
horn-dog when we elected him.  Yes, my sexual morality is considerably
higher than his, but so what?  Sexual abstinence has never been a
criterion for being President, and probably only one President in
living memory  have sex outside of wedlock... Peter Langston
published a "Know your Presidents" column in the last few days, a quiz
regarding which Presidents had done what to whom in the Oval Office.
Regarding covering up the sex -- so what?  When he said they weren't
having sex back in February, she was denying it at the time, so it'd
take a pretty sleazy character to say he was schtupping her and she was
lying about it.

The fact is that this sex between consenting adults thing is the best
Starr could do with his Whitewater investigation after umpteen years
and witnesses and millions of dollars, and I'm not impressed.  I'm
 more impressed with the kind of allegations Softwar digs up --
sweetheart deals for some company to send encryption to China while
sitting on the bulk of the domestic encryption industry, for example.
If he's really done something that involves treason or high crimes and
misdemeanors, let's hear about it and act on it.  But airing soiled
linen in public isn't germane.

If they  decide this is now a requirement for high office, I'd like
to see all the Congresscritters who've had sex out of wedlock and
concealed it take one step forward.  Shall we make hypocrisy in high
office impeachable also?

Today Dave Farber noted that if the CDA were constitutional (which it
isn't) Congress wouldn't have been allowed to drool over all these
salacious bits on the public networks.

	Jim




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 23:53:23 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: oil, greens, recycling, and poly-ticks.
In-Reply-To: <35F7F329.E4836699@brainlink.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980911143828.00899c80@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Some whining Yankee wrote: 
>>What pisses me off is that in NYC the gas prices are ridiculous high...
>>$1.35/Gal is the regular gas, drive just a few miles over a tunnel or bridge 
>>to n NJ, it's $1.00 or $.99 depending on which pump you hit...  go a bit
>south,
>>say VA, and in some areas it drops as low as $0.87 a gallon!

Over in Europe, prices are mostly about $1 -- per liter.

Back here in California, prices have been varying a lot, and
are generally higher in areas with lots of people, lots of money,
or lots of restrictions on gas stations.   Here in San Francisco,
it's about $1.30, and down in Silicon Valley it's mostly about
$1.20, with some cheaper stations and some more expensive.
We have different gas - for environmental reasons, they add
chemicals designed to pollute water and irritate people's lungs
(while reducing smog a bit.)

Those New Jersey prices, while lower than New York, are still
articifially high, since they're "full-service".  The People's 
Republic of New Jersey *knows* that regular untrained citizens
can't be trusted to pump their own gasoline reliably -
otherwise you'd be having frequent explosions at gasoline
stations like you do in the rest of the country.
Any time the legislature begins to suggest legalizing
self-service gas, small gas station owners pretending to be
little old ladies write to all the newspapers protesting that
they'd have to pay a lot more money to have gas pumped for them
and how dare these politicians be so mean to YOUR grandmothers,
and the threat disappears again for a few years.
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Shostack 
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 15:15:39 +0800
To: Ryan Lackey 
Subject: Re: cypherpunks archive
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <19980911161107.A1444@weathership.homeport.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Rate limit it for the masses; sell access to an unlimited version of
the site?

Adam


| Anyone have 1gb of disk space on a machine, optionally with root access,
| on a machine with unmetered network access outside the US on which I
| could put the archive?
| 
| I can put the archive here in AI, but I'll have to charge per megabyte,
| as my t1 is metered-use :(  It would end up being something on the order of
| $0.50/MB for total traffic, and unfortunately there are no good payment
| systems for that kind of thing right now.

--
"I only work at Security Dynamics because of food poisoning." -- Anon




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 16:19:29 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com
Subject: Starr Report on Openpgp.net
Message-ID: <199809112119.RAA19044@domains.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Hi,

I have put a copy of the report on my website:

http://www.openpgp.net/starr

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: See the Future; See OS/2.  Be the Future; Run OS/2.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3a-sha1
Charset: cp850
Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000

iQCVAwUBNfmV5Y9Co1n+aLhhAQH96gP+MhFHy9ma8IaVbHDmrPDj6h7weTbOw/LU
P0PFocm73GTkbXlRVZIEKSC2Jt2+TGtegMRwPtVuKTL6nONj5C/kn0tPFcfLW3rX
lQ6cbbNJxwg0rdkAMIm424bdEI5TWdThBXalwY9cOlUeDpOtN3QUni4DetNCbDXd
qqPFpVQNk5E=
=DLNv
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 18:32:39 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Clinton's fake apologies
In-Reply-To: <199809112128.OAA14441@zendia.mentat.com>
Message-ID: <35F9B3BD.6DE6@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Gillogly wrote:
>
> The fact is that this sex between consenting adults thing is the best
> Starr could do with his Whitewater investigation after umpteen years
> and witnesses and millions of dollars, and I'm not impressed.  I'm
>  more impressed with the kind of allegations Softwar digs up --
> sweetheart deals for some company to send encryption to China while
> sitting on the bulk of the domestic encryption industry, for example.
> If he's really done something that involves treason or high crimes and
> misdemeanors, let's hear about it and act on it.  But airing soiled
> linen in public isn't germane.
> 
It's worse than not impressive: it's PATHETIC. I thought we'd have 425
pages of real output relating to the last 6 years of "work" and 25 pages
of Monica. I'd rather finance $600 toilet seats and $1200 gold-plated
hammers with my tax money than Starr's brand of open political warfare.
It's simple, partisan, Rottweiler politics. The kind of stuff that makes
you leave your shoes outside the door when you get home at night.

> If they  decide this is now a requirement for high office, I'd like
> to see all the Congresscritters who've had sex out of wedlock and
> concealed it take one step forward.  Shall we make hypocrisy in high
> office impeachable also?
> 
I'd say hypocrisy is more of a hangin' offense, like horse thievin' or
cattle rustlin'. I seethe when I listen to an asshole like Arlin Spectre
or Jerry Falwell spouting off about Clinton. I'm no great fan of
Clinton's but the attackers in this particular shitstorm are lower than
pond scum. I can't wait till they crawl back to the cesspool they came
from.

Mike




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 23:43:31 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: Starr report and CDA
Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A19284651@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




The US government violates their own CDA by posting this graphically
detailed report to the Internet. Am I the only one that doesn't find
that ironic. Well it's good ammo (perhaps) for the next time the CDA
comes up.

	Matt

> 
> http://www.cnn.com/starr.report/




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 10:59:57 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Clinton's fake apologies
Message-ID: <199809111600.SAA12943@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



The annoying thing about Clinton's recent behavior is that he never
comes right out and apologizes, but the press always says he does.

Case in point:

> WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Saying ``I have sinned,'' a tearful President
> Clinton made an impassioned plea Friday for forgiveness from Monica
> Lewinsky and others and vowed to fight hard to keep his job.

But what did he say?

> ``I don't think there is a fancy way to say that I have sinned,''
> Clinton said, hours before independent counsel Kenneth Starr's report
> to Congress on his eight-month investigation into the Lewinsky scandal
> was to be made public.

He didn't say that he had sinned, he said that there wasn't a fancy way
to say that he had sinned.  He never came right out and said, "I have
sinned".

Another example:

> ``It is important to me that everybody who has been hurt know that the
> sorrow I feel is genuine -- first and most important my family, also my
> friends, my staff, my cabinet, Monica Lewinsky and her family, and the
> American people. I have asked all for their forgiveness,'' said Clinton.
> 
> It was the first time he had actually asked publicly for the forgiveness
> of Lewinsky...

But he didn't ask publicly for the forgiveness of Lewinsky.  He said that
he had already asked her for forgiveness.  Is this really true?  Has he
really spoken with her?  Or is it another lie?

Another example, from while Clinton was in Ireland:

> DUBLIN, Ireland (AP) - President Clinton said for the first time Friday
> ``I'm sorry'' about his affair with Monica Lewinsky, describing his
> behavior as indefensible as he sought to calm the growing storm that
> has shaken his presidency.

Here's what he actually said:

> ``I've already said that I made a bad mistake, it was indefensible and
> I'm sorry about it,'' Clinton said, questioned at a photo opportunity
> with Irish Prime Minister Bertie Ahern. It was the first time he had
> used the word ``sorry.''

The wording is not quite as obvious here, but in the video record it was
clear that he was saying that he had already said that his behavior was
indefensible and that he was sorry about it.  Of course, this is not true,
he had never said that.

Knowing Clinton's lawyerlike mind, we can only assume that his wording
is carefully chosen.  He could easily have said, "I don't think there is
a fancy way to say it, but I have sinned," or, with regard to Lewinsky
and company, "I ask here for forgiveness from them all."

No doubt he takes a measure of satisfaction in knowing that his calculated
public contriteness is carefully arranged to make it seem like he is
saying things which he actually is not.  Clinton loves lies, and it
must be thrilling to lie brazenly and to be praised for his openness
and honesty as he does so.  For a professional hypocrite like Clinton,
there can be no greater reward.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 23:53:55 +0800
To: "Ivan Nabe Cypherpunk" 
Subject: Webs of Trust, Conspiracies, and Six Degrees of Cypherpunks
In-Reply-To: <199809091200.IAA18283@www.video-collage.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980911192912.00959c50@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 12:47 AM 9/11/98 -0700, Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote:
>wow, a new site called sixdegrees.com, in which everyone
>registers and reveals who their friends are. the privacy
>implications are really incredible. yet supposedly
>close to 1 million people joined, with 900,000 of them
>connected!!

We've got a somewhat related Cypherpunks problem,
which is PGP key signatures.  The traditional software
likes chains of less than 4 deep, yet the last time
I checked the key servers, there were chains as deep as 
12-14, and most people seemed to be at least 6 signatures
away from Phil Zimmermann or Derek Atkins, who were the
centers of the list at the time.  (On the other hand, 
I suppose a lot of signatures between Joe Cypherpunk, 
Ivan Cypherpunk, T0T0M0nger, etc. could improve the averages :-)

The PGP Web of Trust key management tools have the
difficulty that they don't make it easy to decide which 
signatures on your key to export when giving someone
a key to sign or distributing a key to a key server.
You can manage this somewhat by creating different
name/key pairs for different uses, with your
	Phil Zimmermann, Respected Entrepreneur
key signed by venture capitalists and your
	Phil Zimmermann, Anti-Nuclear Activist
signed by your fellow activists, and trying to make
sure that people who attend meetings at the bank building
where you have your office digitally sign in with their
Respectable Software Developer or Free Speech Activist personnas,
and not with their
	Buddhist Temple Assault Rifle Shooting Club
personnas that seem to overlap with the Respected Entrepreneur web....

I'm not sure how solvable a problem this is - 
there are some parts that are easier to solve, like
- storing secret keyrings entirely in encrypted form
	This could be done using a disk encryptor instead,
	or could be done using an additional passphrase
	to unlock the keyring before determining whether
	the specific key you want it on it; both are annoying.
	The threat is the attack currently being used against T0T0,
	whose secret keyring had a key for a personna that signed a
	supposedly incriminating message.  In his case, it was probably
	just ranting or humor, but there are some PGP users who really
	_are_ trying to overthrow their governments.
and friendlier GUI tools (e.g. the current PGPkeys lets you
	add and delete signatures from a key in the keyring,
	but doesn't let you decide which ones to export except
	by deleting them (or by exporting to a separate keyring
	and using the GUI on that keyring, which is awkward.)

				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Raymond D. Mereniuk" 
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 22:02:49 +0800
To: Michael Motyka 
Subject: Re: Clinton's fake apologies
In-Reply-To: <35F9B3BD.6DE6@lsil.com>
Message-ID: <199809120319.UAA20709@leroy.fbn.bc.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Michael Motyka 

> It's worse than not impressive: it's PATHETIC. I thought we'd have 425
> pages of real output relating to the last 6 years of "work" and 25 pages
> of Monica. I'd rather finance $600 toilet seats and $1200 gold-plated
> hammers with my tax money than Starr's brand of open political warfare.
> It's simple, partisan, Rottweiler politics. The kind of stuff that makes
> you leave your shoes outside the door when you get home at night.

>From what I have read of Ken Starr's report Washington insider's all 
knew of Clinton's relationship with "That Woman".  Now if Law 
Enforcement (LA) knows Clinton has skeletons in his closet they can 
go to him and tell him he must support lets just say a total ban on 
strong encryption.  Clinton is inbetween a rock and a hard place, he 
must go along with proposals from LA, whether he supports the 
proposals in principle or not.

We have seen some of Clinton's dirty laundry in a segment of his 
life that his attorney wife was not able to advise him.  Now do you 
think Clinton's general standard of morality was any different in his 
life before this scandal in areas where his attorney wife was able to 
pull the strings?  I personally doubt it. 

I see the whole OIC crusade against Clinton as an attempt to bring 
honesty to government.  Ken Starr is just playing the game by the 
rules set out be the Clintons.  If the game looks too rough who do 
you blame? 




Virtually

Raymond D. Mereniuk
Raymond@fbn.bc.ca




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 22:31:09 +0800
To: lcs Mixmaster Remailer 
Subject: Re: CDA? What CDA?
In-Reply-To: <19980912030005.7730.qmail@nym.alias.net>
Message-ID: <199809120332.XAA24689@domains.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In <19980912030005.7730.qmail@nym.alias.net>, on 09/12/98 
   at 03:00 AM, lcs Mixmaster Remailer  said:


>CNN. Pathfinder. Everybody and his dog with a website. The White House.
>Posting "indecent material" on the web.

>I mean, I'm impressed.


>(A bit more seriously though: could this fact possibly help - in the
>future - if the US gvt was again seeking to "curb indecency onm the
>Net"?)

It sure will be a nice thing to throw in thier face next time they bring
CDA up. :)

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: Windows?  WINDOWS?!?  Hahahahahehehehehohohoho...

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Eudora Export Control Team 
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 01:30:22 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Access to Eudora Export Controlled Archives
Message-ID: <199809120616.XAA11486@ithilien.eudora.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



You may access the Eudora/PGP archives at the following address.

	

Your username and password are given below.

        Username: guest51285
        Password: 4ChmcTZH

ABOUT YOUR PASSWORD

Most browsers allow you to paste passwords into the authentication
box.  If you have a problem with a username and password that we
supplied, please try copying the password from this message, reload 
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Additionally, these passwords expire. If you are denied access 
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Be sure to keep this username and password to yourself.  If someone 
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Thanks for your support!

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: attila 
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 19:15:21 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: Newspaper Ad Project
In-Reply-To: <199808261817.NAA04960@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




    I think you'll find that you can buy multicolumn display ads
    cheaper than classifieds --where you can also get multi-column.
    display ad is almost always cheaper for one shot; and, you have
    a choice of position --and therefore cost

On Wed, 26 Aug 1998, Jim Choate wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I was wondering if we might go ahead and set a date for publishing across
>the country the 3-line Perl RSA. I would like to suggest something like
>Halloween, at least a month a way.
>
>The cpunks here in Austin believe we can handle Austin, Houston, Dallas, Ft.
>Worth, San Antonio, and El Paso.
>
>One issue is that the columns in the paper are pretty limited, so it won't
>be 3 lines in reality. Anybody know the standard paper column width? Who
>wants to reformat the Perl?
>




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: lcs Mixmaster Remailer 
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 21:58:29 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: CDA? What CDA?
Message-ID: <19980912030005.7730.qmail@nym.alias.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



CNN. Pathfinder. Everybody and his dog with a website. The White
House. Posting "indecent material" on the web.

I mean, I'm impressed.


(A bit more seriously though: could this fact possibly help - in the
future - if the US gvt was again seeking to "curb indecency onm the
Net"?)





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 10:03:59 +0800
To: Jim Gillogly 
Subject: Re: Clinton's fake apologies
In-Reply-To: <199809112128.OAA14441@zendia.mentat.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




On Fri, 11 Sep 1998, Jim Gillogly wrote:
> 
> If they  decide this is now a requirement for high office, I'd like
> to see all the Congresscritters who've had sex out of wedlock and
> concealed it take one step forward.  Shall we make hypocrisy in high
> office impeachable also?

A better question is: If Clinton is guilty of perjury and other felonies,
should he be impeached? 

If you don't think about lying about sex and related issues under oath
should be a crime, well, then change the law. But right now any form of
lying under oath is perjury, whether you like it or not. 

-Declan





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Duncan Frissell 
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 07:19:43 +0800
To: Bill Stewart 
Message-ID: <199809121221.IAA15102@mail1.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 02:38 PM 9/11/98 -0700, Bill Stewart wrote:

>Those New Jersey prices, while lower than New York, are still
>articifially high, since they're "full-service".  The People's 
>Republic of New Jersey *knows* that regular untrained citizens
>can't be trusted to pump their own gasoline reliably -
>otherwise you'd be having frequent explosions at gasoline
>stations like you do in the rest of the country.

No.  The legislature knows that the citizens of the Garden State are otherwise unemployable so they have established a protected job category of gas jockey to keep them off the streets.

DCF




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Duncan Frissell 
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 07:35:48 +0800
To: Michael Motyka 
Message-ID: <199809121230.IAA15602@mail1.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 04:35 PM 9/11/98 -0700, Michael Motyka wrote:

>It's worse than not impressive: it's PATHETIC. I thought we'd have 425
>pages of real output relating to the last 6 years of "work" and 25 pages
>of Monica. I'd rather finance $600 toilet seats and $1200 gold-plated
>hammers with my tax money than Starr's brand of open political warfare.
>It's simple, partisan, Rottweiler politics. The kind of stuff that makes
>you leave your shoes outside the door when you get home at night.

Save that the impeachment of a president is not the main job of the OIC.  He is supposed to 1) Investigate, 2) Indict, and 3) Report to the AG and the 3-judge panel that appointed him.  If he stumbles across evidence of impeachable offenses he can send a report to the House but that is a SIDE job.

Starr took 8 months to go from zero to "evidence of impeachable offenses" in  Fornigate.  The rest of the investigation continues.  He has 5 different areas of responsibility.  He submitted Monica to the House because he had rock solid proof that Clinton is a lying sack of shit and a multiple felon.  Something we knew years ago but couldn't prove.  

With KKKlinton, you don't shoot unless you have an elephant gun.

DCF




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: jimg@mentat.com (Jim Gillogly)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 10:49:06 +0800
To: declan@well.com
Subject: Re: Clinton's fake apologies
Message-ID: <199809121549.IAA28683@zendia.mentat.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Declan wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Sep 1998, Jim Gillogly wrote:
> > 
> > If they  decide this is now a requirement for high office, I'd like
> > to see all the Congresscritters who've had sex out of wedlock and
> > concealed it take one step forward.  Shall we make hypocrisy in high
> > office impeachable also?
> 
> A better question is: If Clinton is guilty of perjury and other felonies,
> should he be impeached?

IANAL (feel free to weigh in here, Unicorn), but I heard on one show or
another that lying under oath is perjury only if it's material to the
suit.  Since the Jones case was dismissed, it was argued that even if he
lied then, it wasn't material and thus wasn't perjury -- they claimed that
nobody had every been convicted of perjury for lying in a case that was
dismissed.  Of course he's saying he didn't even lie: like Kinky Friedman
and the Texas Jewboys, as espoused in their legal treatise "Waitret, please
waitret, come sit on my face", he believes that "Eatin' ain't cheatin'."
YMMV.

In any case, despite these legalisms, I'm not convinced that perjury in
any case should be considered treason or high crimes and misdemeanors.
The Founding Fathers could have been more specific about what was
impeachable, and they chose not to be, leaving it intentionally ambiguous.

Despite those arguments, this stuff really isn't about perjury: it's about
the Republicans' case of nixon envy... Clinton's peccadillos are a far cry
from Watergate (or Teapot Dome or Iran-Contra), but it's the best chance
they've had since the Crook was dumped.

> If you don't think about lying about sex and related issues under oath
> should be a crime, well, then change the law. But right now any form of
> lying under oath is perjury, whether you like it or not. 

If he did commit perjury, would that be an impeachable offense?  I claim
it's up to the House to interpret just what constitutes high crimes and
misdemeanors, since it isn't spelled out in the Constitution.

Disclaimer -- I'm not a Democrat, and I'm annoyed with Clinton's behavior
on crypto issues.  If I appear to be defending him, it's inadvertant -- I
just feel he should be attacked on material points rather than whatever
sleazy stuff Starr has found under his rocks.

	Jim 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 11:18:21 +0800
To: remailer@replay.com
Subject: Re: U.S. House only has a T-1
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980912091319.007cca60@m7.sprynet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



:: 
Anon-To: Tim May , Jim Burnes , Declan
McCullagh 

At 12:12 PM 9/11/98 -0700, Tim May wrote:
>details about Clinton's cigar being inserted into Monica's vagina, about
>how Clinton talked with Congressional leaders while Monica was giving him a
>blowjob, and how Clinton suborned perjury and tampered with evidence....

There's a footnote that mentions oral-anal sex.  Perhaps in DC this
is a crime?








  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 08:50:00 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Governemnts should give up regulating Internet [CNN] (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809121414.JAA15432@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:
>From ravage@ssz.com Sat Sep 12 09:13:45 1998
From: Jim Choate 
Message-Id: <199809121413.JAA15418@einstein.ssz.com>
Subject: Governemnts should give up regulating Internet [CNN]
To: users@ssz.com (SSZ User Mail List)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 09:13:39 -0500 (CDT)
Cc: friends@ssz.com (Ravage's Friends)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23]
Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 2001      


Forwarded message:

> X-within-URL: http://www.cnn.com/TECH/computing/9809/11/govnet.idg/

>                GOVERNMENTS CAN'T HANDLE INTERNET, SAYS MAGAZINER

>    September 11, 1998
>    Web posted at 1:20 PM EDT
>    
>    by Jana Sanchez-Klein
>    
>    LONDON (IDG) -- European countries should cooperate with the U.S. to
>    create an Internet that is regulated by the industry rather than by
>    governments, said Ira Magaziner, senior adviser to U.S. President Bill
>    Clinton for Internet policy development, at The Wall Street Journal
>    Europe's Fifth Annual CEO Summit on Converging Technologies.
>    
>    "We are trying to come to an agreement with the European Union where
>    they recognize our approach," said Magaziner, a speaker at the
>    conference here today.
>    
>    He outlined the importance of the Internet to the U.S. and world
>    economies and said that it was not up to governments to attempt to
>    control Internet use and commerce. Magaziner attributed one-third of
>    all economic growth in the U.S. to the building of the Internet. But,
>    he warned, "if goods are overtaxed or overregulated, it's hard to do
>    business. The private sector should lead."
>    
>    Governments are ill-equipped to handle the Internet, because it
>    changes too rapidly, it's too decentralized and too international,
>    suggested Magaziner.
>    
>    "The digital age moves too quickly for government action," he said.

[text deleted]


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 11:18:35 +0800
To: lcs Mixmaster Remailer 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980912091811.007c2750@m7.sprynet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 03:00 AM 9/12/98 -0000, lcs Mixmaster Remailer wrote:
>CNN. Pathfinder. Everybody and his dog with a website. The White
>House. Posting "indecent material" on the web.
>
>I mean, I'm impressed.
>

Given the number of times that cigars are mentioned, its a regular
advertisement.  And I thought the gov't was fighting tobacco,
not finding novel uses for it.








  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 11:37:43 +0800
To: "William H. Geiger III" 
Subject: Re: CDA? What CDA?
In-Reply-To: <19980912030005.7730.qmail@nym.alias.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980912092058.007c4ae0@m7.sprynet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 10:39 PM 9/11/98 -0500, William H. Geiger III wrote:
>It sure will be a nice thing to throw in thier face next time they bring
>CDA up. :)
>


It'll help remind those youngsters who never experienced Nixon
how much you can trust people in power... at least for the next
few days, until their memories fade again...














  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 11:23:04 +0800
To: vznuri@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: If there's a trial will some of us be witnesses?
Message-ID: <2e7c5862e97aaec19ba22db438e362d3@anonymous>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote:
> at one time, kevin mitnick was on this list, rumor has
> it. probably many of the world's premiere hackers have been at one time or
> another.

L. Detweiler and Phiber Optik were concurrently subscribed in early '93.
But you know that, don't you?




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 11:49:56 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Altoids & email
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980912094145.007c4ae0@m7.sprynet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




"o.(708) Ms. Lewinsky gave him an antique paperweight in the shape of the
White House.(709) She also showed him an email describing the effect of
chewing Altoid mints before performing oral sex. Ms. Lewinsky was chewing
Altoids at the time, but the President replied that he did not have enough
time for oral sex.(710) "


So she followed the circulating email neterotica.. too bad she didn't 
know about infosec...

"Some of Ms. Lewinsky's statements about the relationship were
contemporaneously memorialized. These include deleted email recovered from
her home computer and her Pentagon computer, email messages retained by two
of the recipients,"






  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: geeman@best.com
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 12:08:13 +0800
To: Robert Hettinga 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



ummm ... not to sound skeptical, but were did -this- thing come from?
looks like a crock to me.  here, guys: have at it, here's my email address.

ps: can you spell "agent provocateur" ---- (I'm not sure *I* can...)


At 11:43 AM 9/12/98 -0400, Robert Hettinga wrote:
>
>
>--- begin forwarded text
>
>
>Delivered-To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
>X-ROUTED: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 10:35:58 -0500
>X-TCP-IDENTITY: Bucsplace
>Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 10:30:29 -0400
>From: oldbat 
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>To: IP 
>Subject: IP: [Fwd: new threat to privacy]
>Sender: owner-ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
>Precedence: list
>Reply-To: oldbat 
>
>
>
>From: "Bill Prince" 
>Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
>Subject: new threat to privacy
>Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 16:14:54 -0400
>Organization: MindSpring Enterprises
>Message-ID: <6t9bu9$spm$1@camel15.mindspring.com>
>NNTP-Posting-Host: user-37kbbqr.dialup.mindspring.com
>X-Server-Date: 10 Sep 1998 20:14:01 GMT
>X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.0518.4
>X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.0518.4
>Path:
>news.dx.net!news.accessus.net!news2.rdr.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.i
ntern
>etMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!4.1.16.34!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!ne
ws.bb
>nplanet.com!firehose.mindspring.com!not-for-mail
>
>There is another powerful tool for surreptitiously intercepting
>data, but it is only available to law enforcement and the
>military. Called DIRT (Data Interception and Remote
>Transmission), it was released in June by Codex Data Systems.
>http://www.thecodex.com/dirt.html
>
>Investigators need only know your e-mail address to secretly
>install the program. Once they do, investigators can read your
>documents, view your images, download your files and intercept
>your encryption keys. DIRT was developed to assist law
>enforcement in pedophilia investigations, but future uses could
>include drug investigations, money laundering cases and
>information warfare.
>
>- -
>Bill Prince | Orlando, Florida |
>Linuxori te salutamus!
>Take out the SPAM to email me!
>- -
>
>--- end forwarded text
>
>
>-----------------
>Robert A. Hettinga 
>Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
>44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
>"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
>[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
>experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
>
>
>




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 10:12:31 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Clinton's fake apologies (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809121536.KAA15651@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 08:05:07 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Declan McCullagh 
> Subject: Re: Clinton's fake apologies

> On Fri, 11 Sep 1998, Jim Gillogly wrote:
> > 
> > If they  decide this is now a requirement for high office, I'd like
> > to see all the Congresscritters who've had sex out of wedlock and
> > concealed it take one step forward.  Shall we make hypocrisy in high
> > office impeachable also?
> 
> A better question is: If Clinton is guilty of perjury and other felonies,
> should he be impeached? 
> 
> If you don't think about lying about sex and related issues under oath
> should be a crime, well, then change the law. But right now any form of
> lying under oath is perjury, whether you like it or not. 

As rare as it is, I agree with Declan here. If Clinton would lie under oath
about a non-crime (ie sex between consenting adults) what would he do if
faced with a real issue?

He should have said "Yeah, I had sex with her. What business is it of
yours?".


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 12:53:22 +0800
To: Jim Gillogly 
Subject: Re: Clinton's fake apologies
In-Reply-To: <199809121549.IAA28683@zendia.mentat.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



1. it's tough to argue that clinton's apparent perjury in Jones was
immaterial

2. i know of no law saying perjury only a crime if it's "material"

3. perjury is certainly one of the "great offenses" that common law says
is impeachable.

4. besides, non-criminal activities can constitute impeachable offenses --
look at second and third articles of impeachment in Nixon's case

-Declan


On Sat, 12 Sep 1998, Jim Gillogly wrote:

> Declan wrote:
> > On Fri, 11 Sep 1998, Jim Gillogly wrote:
> > > 
> > > If they  decide this is now a requirement for high office, I'd like
> > > to see all the Congresscritters who've had sex out of wedlock and
> > > concealed it take one step forward.  Shall we make hypocrisy in high
> > > office impeachable also?
> > 
> > A better question is: If Clinton is guilty of perjury and other felonies,
> > should he be impeached?
> 
> IANAL (feel free to weigh in here, Unicorn), but I heard on one show or
> another that lying under oath is perjury only if it's material to the
> suit.  Since the Jones case was dismissed, it was argued that even if he
> lied then, it wasn't material and thus wasn't perjury -- they claimed that
> nobody had every been convicted of perjury for lying in a case that was
> dismissed.  Of course he's saying he didn't even lie: like Kinky Friedman
> and the Texas Jewboys, as espoused in their legal treatise "Waitret, please
> waitret, come sit on my face", he believes that "Eatin' ain't cheatin'."
> YMMV.
> 
> In any case, despite these legalisms, I'm not convinced that perjury in
> any case should be considered treason or high crimes and misdemeanors.
> The Founding Fathers could have been more specific about what was
> impeachable, and they chose not to be, leaving it intentionally ambiguous.
> 
> Despite those arguments, this stuff really isn't about perjury: it's about
> the Republicans' case of nixon envy... Clinton's peccadillos are a far cry
> from Watergate (or Teapot Dome or Iran-Contra), but it's the best chance
> they've had since the Crook was dumped.
> 
> > If you don't think about lying about sex and related issues under oath
> > should be a crime, well, then change the law. But right now any form of
> > lying under oath is perjury, whether you like it or not. 
> 
> If he did commit perjury, would that be an impeachable offense?  I claim
> it's up to the House to interpret just what constitutes high crimes and
> misdemeanors, since it isn't spelled out in the Constitution.
> 
> Disclaimer -- I'm not a Democrat, and I'm annoyed with Clinton's behavior
> on crypto issues.  If I appear to be defending him, it's inadvertant -- I
> just feel he should be attacked on material points rather than whatever
> sleazy stuff Starr has found under his rocks.
> 
> 	Jim 
> 
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 12:57:04 +0800
To: John Young 
Subject: Re: Clinton's fake apologies
In-Reply-To: <199809121548.LAA14443@camel14.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



John, some of the press were relying on House sources to get the material
up as quickly as possible. Also AP provided it to its members on a
password-protected web site. I was the first in Time's DC bureau to get
the report; I'm not going to reveal my source save to say it wasn't
Starr's office. 

-Declan


On Sat, 12 Sep 1998, John Young wrote:

> Declan, a few questions on the CDs of the Starr report: 
> 
> 1. Did the press get the CDs, say, embargoed, before the House 
> authorized release? 
> 
> 2. Who handled the CD distribution, the House or Starr or 3rd 
> party?
> 
> 3. Do you know anything about how the CDs were made, by 
> Starr's op or some other party, and when made?
> 
> 4. Will there be pre-releases of press-only CDs of the remaining 
> material, that is, is there a boxed-series prepared of the whole
> wad for lobbing week by weekly?
> 
> This is a query about fake news, lying, perjuring, you know, to
> the American People, whatever that junk-populace is cooked 
> up to be.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 11:02:29 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Clinton's fake apologies (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809121625.LAA15937@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 08:49:56 -0700
> From: jimg@mentat.com (Jim Gillogly)
> Subject: Re: Clinton's fake apologies

> In any case, despite these legalisms, I'm not convinced that perjury in
> any case should be considered treason or high crimes and misdemeanors.
> The Founding Fathers could have been more specific about what was
> impeachable, and they chose not to be, leaving it intentionally ambiguous.

What part of:

High crimes and misdemeanors don't you understand?

Oh, and it isn't 'high misdemeanors'...

I figure it's the fact that 'principles' are involved that is confusing
everybody, no room to move like there is with relativism. Bottem line, he
held a public office, while in that office he should commit *NO* crime or
else he should loose that office. There was no abmiguity there in the minds
of the founding fathers and there shouldn't be in yours either. If this
confuses you then take it as an indication that you have a axiomatic
contradiction in your world view and need to rethink things in a serious
way.

As Jefferson said, if you hold a public office your public property.

Nail the son of a bitch to the wall, he did the crime let him do the time.

It's a pitty he doesn't have this sort of empathy for all those people he's
put in jail for consensual crimes during his tenure. The man has a base
double standard, let him pay for it.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 10:44:16 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: [Fwd: new threat to privacy]
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Delivered-To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
X-ROUTED: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 10:35:58 -0500
X-TCP-IDENTITY: Bucsplace
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 10:30:29 -0400
From: oldbat 
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: IP 
Subject: IP: [Fwd: new threat to privacy]
Sender: owner-ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
Precedence: list
Reply-To: oldbat 



From: "Bill Prince" 
Newsgroups: misc.survivalism
Subject: new threat to privacy
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 16:14:54 -0400
Organization: MindSpring Enterprises
Message-ID: <6t9bu9$spm$1@camel15.mindspring.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: user-37kbbqr.dialup.mindspring.com
X-Server-Date: 10 Sep 1998 20:14:01 GMT
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.0518.4
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.0518.4
Path:
news.dx.net!news.accessus.net!news2.rdr.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.intern
etMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!4.1.16.34!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bb
nplanet.com!firehose.mindspring.com!not-for-mail

There is another powerful tool for surreptitiously intercepting
data, but it is only available to law enforcement and the
military. Called DIRT (Data Interception and Remote
Transmission), it was released in June by Codex Data Systems.
http://www.thecodex.com/dirt.html

Investigators need only know your e-mail address to secretly
install the program. Once they do, investigators can read your
documents, view your images, download your files and intercept
your encryption keys. DIRT was developed to assist law
enforcement in pedophilia investigations, but future uses could
include drug investigations, money laundering cases and
information warfare.

- -
Bill Prince | Orlando, Florida |
Linuxori te salutamus!
Take out the SPAM to email me!
- -

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 10:46:58 +0800
To: Declan McCullagh 
Subject: Re: Clinton's fake apologies
In-Reply-To: <199809112128.OAA14441@zendia.mentat.com>
Message-ID: <199809121548.LAA14443@camel14.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Declan, a few questions on the CDs of the Starr report: 

1. Did the press get the CDs, say, embargoed, before the House 
authorized release? 

2. Who handled the CD distribution, the House or Starr or 3rd 
party?

3. Do you know anything about how the CDs were made, by 
Starr's op or some other party, and when made?

4. Will there be pre-releases of press-only CDs of the remaining 
material, that is, is there a boxed-series prepared of the whole
wad for lobbing week by weekly?

This is a query about fake news, lying, perjuring, you know, to
the American People, whatever that junk-populace is cooked 
up to be.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 12:34:35 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Is cypherpunks-unedited@toad.com broken?...
Message-ID: <199809121757.MAA16968@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From MAILER-DAEMON@telekom.de Sat Sep 12 12:50:46 1998
> Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 18:53:07 +0200
> From: Mail Delivery Subsystem 
> Subject: Returned mail: Unable to deliver mail
> Message-Id: <9809111653.AB07969@fw9.telekom.de>
> To: owner-cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com
> 
>    ----- Transcript of session follows -----
> 554 sendall: too many hops 19 (17 max): from , to owner-cypherpunks@ssz.com
> 
>    ----- Unsent message follows -----
> Received: by fw9.telekom.de; (5.65v3.2/1.3/10May95) id AA07969; Fri, 11 Sep 1998 18:53:07 +0200
> Received: from einstein.ssz.com by fw9.telekom.de (smtpxd); id XA05182
> Received: (from bin@localhost) by einstein.ssz.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id LAA00752 for cypherpunks-outgoing; Thu, 10 Sep 1998 11:16:26 -0500
> Received: from somewhere by smtpxd
> Received: from somewhere by smtpxd
> Received: from somewhere by smtpxd
> Received: from somewhere by smtpxd
> Received: from somewhere by smtpxd
> Received: from somewhere by smtpxd
> Received: from somewhere by smtpxd
> Received: from somewhere by smtpxd
> Received: from somewhere by smtpxd
> Received: from somewhere by smtpxd
> Received: from somewhere by smtpxd
> From: myemail@any.where.com
> Received: from somewhere by smtpxd
> Received: from somewhere by smtpxd
> Received: from somewhere by smtpxd
> Received: from somewhere by smtpxd
> Received: from somewhere by smtpxd
> Message-Id: <199809101721.DEK5253@myserver.com>
> Date: ×ň, 10 ńĺí 1998 17:21:34
> Subject: Exhibitions in Russia
> X-Uidl: 870483789,239
> To: cypherpunks-unedited@toad.com
> X-Mailing-List: cypherpunks@algebra.com
> X-List-Admin: ichudov@algebra.com
> X-Loop: cypherpunks@algebra.com
> Sender: owner-cypherpunks@ssz.com
> Precedence: bulk
> X-Mailing-List: cypherpunks@ssz.com
> X-List-Admin: list@ssz.com
> X-Loop: ssz.com
> X-Language: English, Russian, German
> 
> Dear cypherpunks-unedited@toad.com
> 
> Me prepared pages they will be useful all
> http://people.mosexpo.ru
> Exhibitions in Russia 
>  Food
> http://www.mosexpo.ru/gurman
> Telecom and Networks
> http://www.mosexpo.ru/telecom
> http://pc-expo.mosexpo.ru
> http://unix-expo.mosexpo.ru
> http://www.mosexpo.ru/svyaz98
> Flowers and Seed
> http://www.mosexpo.ru/flowers
> Fishing
> http://www.mosexpo.ru/fishing
> and more in http://www.mosexpo.ru
>  
> To delete itself from list enter come in on server http://www.mosexpo.ru/rus
> there  Remove mailing list
> info@mosexpo.ru
> 7-095-974-7568
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a demo version of Dynamic Mail Server -
> the leading Internet marketing promotion tool -
> More details at: http://www.dynamicmail.com/
> -----------------------------------------------------
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 13:37:46 +0800
To: cypherpunks-unedited@toad.com
Subject: Deletion test
Message-ID: <199809121851.NAA17371@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text




Deletion test


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 16:07:31 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980912140527.007d2ad0@m7.sprynet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 11:25 AM 9/12/98 -0500, Jim Choate wrote:
>Forwarded message:
>
>What part of:
>
>High crimes and misdemeanors don't you understand?
>
>Oh, and it isn't 'high misdemeanors'...

There is no evidence that Clinton actually *inhaled* on the
flavored cigar...










  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ulf@fitug.de (Ulf =?ISO-8859-1?Q?M=F6ller?=)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 07:48:06 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: A Cypherpunk Trial, Yes
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> 	in all kinds of nefarious activities.  The same
> 	post also names Tim May, Adam Back, Declan
> 	McCullagh, Ulf Moller, Kent Crispen, and Blanc
> 	Weber. I'm let off easy, being characterized 
> 	as only a 'terroist [sic] InterNet forger'. 
> 	I think that this is because I once complained 
> 	when someone (possibly Toto) forged a message 
> 	in my name.

Hm. I hadn't seen that before.

I didn't forge any messages or complain about forgeries, and I haven't
claimed to have been working on proving the validity of the need for
legislation declaring the value of Pi to be 3.0, either. If there is
any truth in the Nutly News, it must be something else. :)




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Brian W. Buchanan" 
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 16:37:27 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Investigating the Suspect Computer
In-Reply-To: <199809121910.PAA03207@camel14.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> THIS PACKAGE IS DISTRIBUTED TO LAW ENFORCEMENT AND 
> PRIVATE INVESTIGATORS ONLY!!  THE ARCHIVE FILE IS [PKZip] 
> ENCRYPTED, AND YOU WILL NEED A PASSWORD TO EXTRACT
> THE ARCHIVE.  IF YOU ARE NOT WORKING IN LAW ENFORCEMENT, 
> DON'T BOTHER TO DOWNLOAD THE FILE, WE WILL NOT DISTRIBUTE 
> THE PASSWORD UNLESS WE CAN VERIFY YOUR CREDENTIALS. 

6161234432565677 possibilities for up to 8 printable-characters (roughly 2^52)

217180147133 poss. for up to 8 lowercase letters (roughly 2^38)

54507958502609 poss. for up to 8 lower/upper letters (roughly 2^46)

221919451578029 poss. for up to 8 alphanumeric chars. (roughly 2^48)

Apparently, the password can be up to 80 printable characters in length...

715934338421370680344382998236434541670979942120825502830105586745112050\
939906381266091474511676185877408805164512571770773165479768270778933665\
90119714237357 possibilities worst-case (roughly 2^524)

According to one of the READMEs that comes with a public domain
implementation of the PKZIP crypto algorithm, there is a known-plaintext
attack against it described at http://www.cryptography.com/.

If it's 8 or less lower-case letters, it would seem that it's probably
crackable in a reasonable amount of time on a high-end desktop PC or
workstation.  Anything more would probably require a distributed attack.

-- 
Brian Buchanan                                      brian@smarter.than.nu

Never believe that you know the whole story.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 14:10:00 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Investigating the Suspect Computer
Message-ID: <199809121910.PAA03207@camel14.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Is there a PKZip-encryption cracker online for the 
following program which claims to offer a link to a 
couple of dozen shareware password crackers of
popular programs?  The exe-file is easily downloaded. 
There's a copy for testing for privacy protection:

   http://jya.com/pci-pack.exe (20K)


Investigating the Suspect Computer
PC Data Recovery for the Criminal Investigator
Law Enforcement Use Only

   http//www.forensicdynamics.com/pccrime.htm

WHAT EXACTLY, DOES THE SOFTWARE DO ? 

The software is designed to almost completely automate
the formidable task of extracting forensic data from
today's modern personal computers with large or multiple
hard drives. The program automatically examines startup
files for "booby traps", and searches the entire machine
for "bomb" programs which, if triggered, could destroy
valuable evidence on the machine. PC-Investigator runs
exclusively from diskette, at the DOS level, and does
NOT perform any write operations to the hard drive. This
insures that fragile data, or files that may be evidence
which have been deleted, or are resident in "slack
space", are not inadvertently overwritten. 

A unique feature of the software is the ability to construct
custom-tailored reports. The catalog function extracts
and organizes all the files on the hard drive, and sorts
them into order by type, date and time, according to
directory. During this process, all the readable (text) files
are extracted into a separate list, and are organized by
type in the report. Also available is an extracted report
listing of graphic (picture) files, and files that are 
typically used on the Internet, along with an extracted list 

of word processor files, backup files, ASCII text, and files 
that are recovered by CHKDSK or SCANDISK, which are
commonly overlooked as a source of forensic evidence. 

PC-Investigator has unique features that duplicate the
manual functions normally performed during such
forensic investigations. The most valuable feature is the
ability to search all the files on the disk for the presence
of up to 600 words or phrases called HotWords, that you
supply in an editable file. This function is the equivalent
of the manual process of "Find Files and Folders" / "Files
Containing" under Windows 95 , which typically takes
30 seconds to 3 minutes to do manually for each word or
phrase you are looking for. The function is performed
using words and phrases from the HotWord list,
hundreds of times per second.

A typical 2 Gigabyte hard drive may contain over 500
readable text files. A manual search for the occurrence of
a single word or phrase occurring in those files typically
takes 90 seconds. If you had to search for those 200
words manually, the time required would be  5 hours at
the keyboard. The HotWord search feature of PC-

Investigator performs this function on a 486/50 machine
in just under 45 minutes. If the number of files to be
searched is substantially higher, such as on today's large
hard drives (typically 2 to 4 Gigabytes, with 12 Gigabyte
drives available on top-end systems) the time required to
perform an exhaustive search would be proportionately
higher (500 to 1,000 man-hours). PC-Investigator
completely searches a 2 Gigabyte drive n a 486/120
machine in just under 24 hours. The faster the processor,

and hard disk controller, the faster the program will run to
completion. 

The best part is that each file containing any of the words
or phrases in your list is cataloged in the report, along
with the number of "hits" or HotWords found in the file.
After the program is started, and the desired options are
selected, the program will run un-attended, doing the
work that would normally not be done in such cases
because of the tremendous amount of time and effort
involved. Of course, files which do not contain "clear
text", or are DES or BLOWFISH / PGP encrypted will not
be flagged by the program. However, we have software
which addresses the problem of APPLICATION
encryption - that is - files which are encrypted by the
application which created them. For example, LOTUS
123, Quick Books, PFS Professional, and WordPerfect
are among the few programs which offer in-application
encryption of files. 

The program does NOT extract or examine the data from
"slack space". However, running the program is easy,
and can be done by almost anyone with a bit of computer
skills. The software is designed as a preliminary
investigative tool, to determine if a machine should be
examined by a professional. If this program indicates a
"HOT" machine, you can be certain that a more
extensive investigation is warranted. 

             -----

PCI-PACK.EXE 

Includes PC-Investigator software, manual and
Investigating The Suspect Computer 

THIS PACKAGE IS DISTRIBUTED TO LAW ENFORCEMENT AND 
PRIVATE INVESTIGATORS ONLY!!  THE ARCHIVE FILE IS [PKZip] 
ENCRYPTED, AND YOU WILL NEED A PASSWORD TO EXTRACT
THE ARCHIVE.  IF YOU ARE NOT WORKING IN LAW ENFORCEMENT, 
DON'T BOTHER TO DOWNLOAD THE FILE, WE WILL NOT DISTRIBUTE 
THE PASSWORD UNLESS WE CAN VERIFY YOUR CREDENTIALS. 






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 17:49:36 +0800
To: jimg@mentat.com (Jim Gillogly)
Subject: Re: Clinton's fake apologies
In-Reply-To: <199809121549.IAA28683@zendia.mentat.com>
Message-ID: <199809122249.PAA03858@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jimmy: the "sockpuppets" (as Lucien Goldberg calls them) who
defend clinton on TV (and are probably paid to)
are trying to advance the case that
lying in a civil case is rarely prosecuted, which is true, 
but has nothing to do with the law. apparently clinton & his
slimy lawyer teammates would tend to reassure all the women, such 
as Gennifer Flowers as I recall, that they could lie without
consequence in a civil trial.  at least those women whom they
didn't threaten to "break their pretty legs". a capricious
bunch, hmm?

also, there
may be some legal precedent that unless the lying had
to do with the case, it is not relevant to the case
(a reasonable situation I wouldn't be surprised if some
judge ruled)

but there's just no laws, as I understand it, that ever
allow lying under any circumstances, particularly in sitations
such as court hearings, depositions, etc.  in fact it can be
argued our whole legal system breaks down if lying is ever
sanctioned in any way. that's the problem. weasel clinton 
will always be looking for a loophole. I'm surprised you
gave the slightest credibility to claims that lying is
ever sanctioned under the law. 

there are a lot of paid-lowlife tentacles making the television circuit
defending clinton, I suspect. you've fallen prey to one of their
arguments.  he would have been trashed
long ago if it weren't for their thick, odious & treacherous
smokescreens, imho. there are a lot more traitors in this
country than Clinton, for sure. they all hang out together,
but few sheeple will ever know.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 15:29:19 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: 2A (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809122052.PAA17723@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 22:00:12 -0400
> From: David Miller 
> Subject: 2A

> The thought I had (actually, it was explained to me), about the
> BoR is that, you know that in contracts/law, if there is a conflict
> within a text/body of law, that which was legally written last
> overrides the earlier statement.  (e.g. the fine print is always
> at *the bottom* of contracts).  Think:  a law is passed saying
> that something is legal, now another one is passed saying that it
> is illegal... Which law wins?  The second one, obviously, so long
> as it was legally passed.

Contract law is civil law, the Constitution isn't civil law it is the
charter defining how the government is supposed to work. If we accept this
then no part of the Constitution is safe because it could be over-ridden
this way, clearly not what the founding fathers intended in practice or
principle.

> Well, same with the BoR/Admendments.  As AMENDMENTS, they override
> the main body of the Constitution, if there is a conflict.  This
> is plain, simple, contractual law, and holds anywhere that people
> negotiate contracts.
> 
> Consider:  The main body of the C says that the Senate can ratify
> treaties, such as the UN resolution to confiscate privately-owned
> small arms.  Yet there is the 2A.  Which wins?  The 2A because it
> is the overriding law of the land, higher than the authority of
> the main body of the C to give the Senate that power when there is
> a conflict between parts of the law.
> 
> Conclusion:  The UN should get your guns and ammo one bullet at a
> time.

This is lawyer bullshit, the 10th states very clearly, as well as the
last sentence of the inter-state commerce clause, that the Constitution has
to be taken in toto. The legislators and courts don't get to pick and choose.

Furthermore, since the amendments dealing with prohabition were passed prior
to the 16th they set a precedence that requires that subsequent amendemnts
must specify what they are changing, the 16th doesn't do that. One could
argue on that alone that the 16th as currently worded is invalid since it
didn't meet prior precedence and by extension wasn't passed legaly.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 16:32:55 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Ooops...16 is before 18th & 21st
Message-ID: <199809122156.QAA18031@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Ooops, guess I was in some sort of fugue and forgot how to count...

Clearly the 16th is before the 18th or 21st amendments.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Brian B. Riley" 
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 16:45:54 +0800
To: "Ryan Lackey" 
Subject: Re: radio net
Message-ID: <199809122147.RAA23457@mx01.together.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On 9/8/98 2:29 PM, Ryan Lackey (ryan@systemics.ai)  passed this wisdom:


>Is anyone else interested in setting up a radio net (probably packet radio
>relay) to relay small quantities of data in the event the telecommunications
>infrastructure becomes unavailable (either technically or 
>legally/politically/militarily)?  There are existing packet relay nets, but 
>in my experience amateur radio people, especially in the US, are very 
>willing to roll over for the government at the slightest cause.

 you tar with too wide a brush ... one of the pioneers of ham packet 
radio is Phil Karn, who definitely isn't in to submissive roll overs! For 
that matter neither am I, though, sadly the greater number of hams do fit 
your description.

>I think the cost would be something like $1-5k per station, and it could
>be done in a fairly turnkey fashion.  Exactly how to handle routing and
>what protocol to use on the network is kind of an open question -- there
>are a lot of solutions, none of them optimal.

 so what are you interested in setting up????


Brian B. Riley --> http://members.macconnect.com/~brianbr
 For PGP Keys  

  "One of the deep mysteries to me is our logo, the symbol of lust
   and knowledge, bitten into, all crossed with in the colors of the
   rainbow in the wrong order. You couldn't dream of a more 
   appropriate logo: lust, knowledge, hope, and anarchy."
   -- Gassee - Apple Logo





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 21:16:36 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Clinton--Why I am Chortling
In-Reply-To: <199809121625.LAA15937@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




I've seen several Cypherpunks express the opinion that can be summarized as
"We paid $40 million for _this_?" And "Ken Starr is on a witch hunt."

Indeed, a lot of money spend by the Independent Prosecutor. And Starr is
indeed a Grand Inquisitor.

But he is following the law, and Attorney General Janet Reno authorized his
latest venture.

I'm generally pleased with what's happening. Many points to make:

* What goes around, comes around. The Liberal puke Democrats who crucified
Bob Packwood, Clarence Thomas, and any number of corporate people charged
with "sexual harassment," are now reaping what they sowed. "If she says it
happened, it happened," the mantra of the feminazi left, is now apparently
forgotten by Patricia It's not our business" Ireland.

* And it was the Dems who pushed through the Independent Prosecutor Act (or
whatever the precise name is). They've reaped the whirlwind, as it were.

* Lawmaking is paralzyed, frozen, stillborne. This I count as a Good Thing.
Even better will be another 8-10 months of this nightly spectacle. No
Health Care Reform, no Communications Decency Act II, no Tobacco Act,
nothing.

(By the way, a danger will be having Republicans sweep into power in
November and then making mischief about morality, new laws about crypto and
terrorism, etc.)

* Clinton is of course shown to be a liar, a perjurer, a suborner of
perjury, an abuser of his office, and a duplicitous jerk who spouts NOW
mantras while doing what any CEO in America would be fired and sued over.
(Not that I support any such lawsuits.)

* This disgraces the Presidency, which I also count as a Good Thing. There
were hopes that Nixon's downfall would be the end of the Imperial
Presidency, but, alas, the pomp and circumstance continued unabated. It's
time we demystify this whole President thing and start asking why the fuck
we should let some tinhorn politician spend our money.

* Children will be taught that the President is a liar, adulterer, creep,
jerk, fool, pervert, and general scumbag. (A friend of mine has been
pointing out to his 10-year-old son that Clinton is a lying piece of dog
shit, a monster who professes to lead us all morally while poking cigars in
Monica's cunt and then going to church to piously opine about the need for
values....not that the cigar thing is ipso facto immoral, just at odds with
his "family values" nonsense.

* Let us all hope this "does not go to completion" (ha ha) for many, many
months. Let us hope all see that this nation of laws is built on lies and
perjurious talking points.

* I know that if I'm called to testify in court I'll be sorely tempted to
say: "As for telling the truth, I plan to follow the example of the
President."

Ironically, this situation is now so well known that such a statement would
almost certainly be taken by a judge today as contempt of court. And yet we
put up with having this lying sack of shit in the White House.

I am chortling.

--Tim May


(This space left blank pending determ. of acceptability to the gov't.)
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 19:07:38 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: radio net (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809130029.TAA18636@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Subject: Re: radio net (fwd)
> Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 20:03:56 -0400
> From: "Brian B. Riley" 

> open for things like the ham radio satellite command channel uplinks 
> being encrypted for security reasons ... but to do so they must, upon 

Actualy the control channel for satellites must be encrypted by
international law.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Blanc" 
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 21:56:21 +0800
To: 
Subject: RE: Clinton's fake apologies
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <000301bddec2$d088f460$238195cf@blanc>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>From Bill Clinton, via  WASHINGTON (Reuters):

: 	First, I want to say to all of you that, as you might imagine, I
: have been on quite a journey these last few weeks to get to the end
: of this, to the rock bottom truth of where I am and where we all are.


But we are not the ones whose direction (moral compass?) is in question, as we're not all
in this together.  We only found out about it in Jan/February.


: I agree with those who have said that in my first statement after I
: testified I was not contrite enough.  I don't think there is a fancy
: way to say that I have sinned.


i.e.:   Now that there was unavoidable evidence of a DNA match, and in view of 23 boxes of
a report distributed to everyone in Congress and everyone else in the whole world, it's
time to look more seriously repentant, in an off-hand sort of way.   (memory:  "I hope
things go well for her."  For HER ! )


: 	It is important to me that everybody who has been hurt know that
: the sorrow I feel is genuine: first and most important, my family;
: also my friends, my staff, my Cabinet, Monica Lewinsky and her
: family, and the American people.  I have asked all for their
: forgiveness.

He wasn't hurting in January.  Nor in February, March, April, May, June, July . . .


: 	But I believe that to be forgiven, more than sorrow is required
: -- at least two more things.  First, genuine repentance -- a
: determination to change and to repair breaches of my own making.  I
: have repented.


Since his sex life is personal, and nobody really cares as long as it doesn't affect his
Presidential duties, why would anybody care that he's repentant?  (don't tell me, I know.
. .)


:Second, what my bible calls a "broken spirit"; an
: understanding that I must have God's help to be the person that I
: want to be; a willingness to give the very forgiveness I seek; a
: renunciation of the pride and the anger which cloud judgment, lead
: people to excuse and compare and to blame and complain.


To excuse and compare and to blame who?  What makes him think anyone will be blaming him
for doing anything wrong?  He didn't think it was wrong for 3 or so years with Monica.
Nor for 10 or so years with Jennifer.  What would make it wrong now, at this "particular
moment in time. . . ."


: 	Now, what does all this mean for me and for us?  First, I will
: instruct my lawyers to mount a vigorous defense, using all available
: appropriate arguments.  But legal language must not obscure the fact
: that I have done wrong.

Legally defensible; morally indefensible.  Any relation?


:Second, I will continue on the path of
: repentance, seeking pastoral support and that of other caring people
: so that they can hold me accountable for my own commitment.


Because of his proven "pattern" of straying from the "path of righteousness".


: 	Third, I will intensify my efforts to lead our country and the
: world toward peace and freedom, prosperity and harmony, in the hope
: that with a broken spirit and a still strong heart I can be used for
: greater good, for we have many blessings and many challenges and so
: much work to do.
: 	In this, I ask for your prayers and for your help in healing our
: nation.


But it is not we need healing, being it not we, are sick.


:And though I cannot move beyond or forget this -- indeed, I
: must always keep it as a caution light in my life -- it is very
: important that our nation move forward.

He and his counsel keep saying this ("put it behind us", "move on", "move forward"), as
though trying to erase it from view - to obfuscate what has become apparent and continue
as though there was not something going on; something which seems to need "healing".  Yet
Starr keeps pressing on; on and onward.

It is ironic, in these times of absurd laws being created by both sides in government,
legislation advanced and supported by all manner of political interest groups, that lately
these creations of theirs come back to bite them.   Had there been no laws regarding
"sexual harrassment in the workplace", the Jones case would not have come up, Monica would
not have been brought into the picture, and Clinton would not have had to ever worry about
being revealed for his "not-illegal" behavior.

Contradictions abound in this situation:

.  everyone should have a private life -  but you're not supposed to do it in the
Whitehouse (that holy place of morally superior governing operations); in particular,
while you're discussing "matters of greater importance to the nation" on the phone

.  having sex is not illegal, when it's between consenting parties  -  but you're not
supposed to cheat on your spouse, in particular if you're a Christian (Baptist?) who goes
to Church every Sunday and worships the source of the 10 Commandments

.  people are saying that the sex acts were "horrible" and "nasty" and "disgusting"  -
like they themselves would *never* think of doing equally lascivious things to each other
(like, who are they kidding)

.  whose fault is it that Ken Starr was assigned to hound down Clinton, and that it took
so long to get to this point?  Who was stalling, who needed to tell the truth, why was
Clinton unavoidably *obligated* to tell the truth?   How paradoxical that an inveterate
liar (according to his reputation) would have put himself in a position where legally,
according to the law, the law of this Nation which he supports and leads into the Future,
he is required  to reveal the truth, even when decency would say that one should not be
coerced into self-incrimination over a personal, private matter, and should not have to
confess such things.

Deep irony, for times like these . . .

    ..
Blanc




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Brian B. Riley" 
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 19:05:14 +0800
To: "Jim Choate" 
Subject: Re: radio net (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809130003.UAA29856@mx01.together.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On 9/9/98 8:39 AM, Jim Choate (ravage@einstein.ssz.com)  passed this 
wisdom:

>Forwarded message:
>
>> Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 00:51:49 -0700
>> From: "William J. Hartwell" 
>> Subject: Re: radio net
>
>> I think a radio network linked to the Amateur networks sending secure
>> packets, 
>> using tunneling or maybe just encrypted traffic (There may be some FCC
>> rules regarding this.
>
>The FCC prohibits the transmission of encrypted data via analog or digital
>signals by amateurs.

 The FCC prohibits the use of transmissions encoded specifically to 
obscure the content of the traffic (which is exactly what our reason for 
using encryption would be), in essence they prohibit using encrypted 
transmisions. However, by wording the ruling that way they leave the door 
open for things like the ham radio satellite command channel uplinks 
being encrypted for security reasons ... but to do so they must, upon 
request, be able to provide the Friendly Chocolate Company with their 
keys.


Brian B. Riley --> http://members.macconnect.com/~brianbr
  For PGP Keys  

 "For every action, there is an equal and opposite criticism."





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Brian B. Riley" 
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 19:26:34 +0800
To: "Robert Hettinga" 
Subject: Re: radio net
Message-ID: <199809130024.UAA12462@mx02.together.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On 9/10/98 10:28 PM, Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com)  passed this 
wisdom:

>Hey, guys,
>
>Someone here already said it, but nobody else got it, so I'll repeat it:
>SSB, or Single Sideband. It's commercial ham radio, if you will, and all
>the ships use it. I expect that you can shove anything down an SSB set that
>you want, including encrypted traffic.
>
>Ham radio is a government nerd subsidy, and as such, doesn't do much but
>make more government funded/sactioned/approved/whatever nerds. :-).
>
>SSB would do just fine. It's an international standard, after all, and
>probably not under the control of any one government, even.e

 Bob, I am afraid you are showing your ignorance here. SSB is just one of 
the many modes of emission standardized in radio communications, its used 
by the amateur radio service (ham) , the citizens radio service (cb), the 
military, etc ...

 The real problem is that to build any sort of network would require some 
fixed positions, which, if it were intended to be 'clandestine' would be 
compromised sooner or later ... either that or several poor shnooks would 
have full time jobs driving vans around and around to keep the RDF snoops 
guessing ...

 In general there would be a better chance of pulling it off if you 
stayed away from the ham radio bands. 'self-policing' is not a character 
of another bands except the commercial broadcast bands.

 Spread spectrum would have more promise as many stations could be on the 
air at once on the same frequency thus making life quite confusing for 
the T-hunters. 


Brian B. Riley --> http://members.macconnect.com/~brianbr
  For PGP Keys  

   "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too 
    much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it." 
      -- Thomas Jefferson





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 13:24:17 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Access to Eudora Export Controlled Archives
Message-ID: <199809121825.UAA20834@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Fri, 11 Sep 1998, Eudora Export Control Team wrote:

> Be sure to keep this username and password to yourself.  If someone 

You know, this kind of crap never ceases to make me chuckle. Mail a list
with thousands of people, which is archived all over the place, and add in
"Be sure to keep this username and password to yourself."

This is very effective export control.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 22:39:33 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Clinton--Why I am Chortling
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 8:11 PM -0700 9/12/98, Duncan Frissell wrote:
>At 07:18 PM 9/12/98 -0700, Tim May wrote:
>>
>>I've seen several Cypherpunks express the opinion that can be summarized as
>>"We paid $40 million for _this_?" And "Ken Starr is on a witch hunt."
>
>Ken Starr is investigating 5 separate Clinton criminal conspiracies.  Walsh
>took 7 years and $60megs to investigate Iran/Contra (two criminal
>conspiracies).
>
>I like it when the rulers are consumed by their own creations.
>
>DCF
>
>Extra credit awarded for naming Starr's 5 investigations.

Let's see:

-- Whitewater and Madison Guarantee (may be 2 separate investigations)

-- Filegate (White House had 1100 FBI files, overseen by Craig the Bar Bouncer)

-- Travelgate (replacing the old staff is kosher, but accusing them of
crimes is not)

-- Cigargate

And of course there were and are investigations of Ron Brown, Hazel
O'Leary, Ron Espe, Henry Cisneros, and nearly every one of the "rainbow
coalition" he installed...seems only the honkies are not being
investigated, which says either there's a coincidence, or the honkies are
getting a pass, or the minorities he put in were your basic political graft
appointees.

I'd say that a President who lives by the sword will die by the sword, but
this might get me a visit by one of his pimps, er, Secret Service stooges.
They grep for "President" and "die" in the same paragraph and have no
understanding of allusions.

--Tim May


(This space left blank pending determ. of acceptability to the gov't.)
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 19:59:39 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Investigating the Suspect Computer
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199809130056.UAA05048@camel8.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



There's a batch of PKZip and other program cracker tools at:

   http://www.theargon.com/tools.html

With links to other sites, which link to more, into the dark psychoses
of Trans-Ural and Andean regions -- some of the DNS's are off the
charts.

Even so, none seem to work on the pci-pack.exe I grabbed, at least
not for me. The file may not be complete, or it's a decoy, or all the
vile crackers I unzipped are DIRT-virii death-writhing in my unzapped 
prostate.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 23:25:05 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980912212340.007c3670@m7.sprynet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On a radio data network: 

See http://www.rand.org/publications/RM/RM3762/


In this Memorandum we consider something we have earlier referred to as
"poor-boy" microwave. The "poor-boy" designation resulted from an imposed
constraint on the design of an ensemble of microwave communications
equipments--namely, that the designer should have to pay for the system out
of his own pocket! Even so, a look at price tags for anything to do with
any large electronic or communications system would appear to render the
term "poor-boy" inappropriate. "Mini-cost," a contraction of
"minimum-cost," now seems more fitting.

Mini-cost microwave, therefore, is a minimum-cost, line-of-sight microwave
communications system designed to transmit digital information in as
inexpensive a manner as possible. It is one way of building the links for
the proposed Distributed Adaptive Message Block communications system with
which this series of Memoranda is concerned.

The distributed system itself is designed around digital modulation, using
redundant paths selected on an instant-by-instant basis. The communications
links for such a system can be built in a different manner than their
equivalents in today's systems, taking advantage of the system's less rigid
distortion level and tandem reliability requirements. The fundamental
objective for the system's links is that they permit formation of new
routes cheaply (a necessary survivability criterion), yet allow
transmission on the order of millions of bits per second (see ODC-I,
-VII[1]); system reliability and a low raw error rate are secondary. And,
since future networks conveying military traffic must be designed with the
expectation of heavy damage, powerful digital error detection and error
removal methods have been built into the system.






  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 23:34:06 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980912213251.007cd230@m7.sprynet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



See also http://www.rand.org/publications/RM/RM3420/

In fact you may want to look at RAND's work On Distributed Communications
http://www.rand.org/publications/RM/RM3420/RM3420.list.html

Duck and cover your packets...









  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Duncan Frissell 
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 20:52:33 +0800
To: Declan McCullagh 
Subject: Re: Clinton's fake apologies
In-Reply-To: <199809121549.IAA28683@zendia.mentat.com>
Message-ID: <199809130146.VAA08964@mail1.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 10:54 AM 9/12/98 -0700, Declan McCullagh wrote:
>1. it's tough to argue that clinton's apparent perjury in Jones was
>immaterial
>
>2. i know of no law saying perjury only a crime if it's "material"
>
>3. perjury is certainly one of the "great offenses" that common law says
>is impeachable.
>
>4. besides, non-criminal activities can constitute impeachable offenses --
>look at second and third articles of impeachment in Nixon's case
>
>-Declan

In addition, the last man impeached and convicted by Congress (circa 1988)
Judge Alcy Hastings (sp?) was convicted for perjury in a tax evasion case
in which he was acquitted of the original charges.  Hastings was later
elected to Congress from Florida and last week dissed Clinton by not
attending a fundraiser he held there for the Democrat candidate for
governor.  Hastings said that he has yet to make up his mind on Clinton and
wants to review the evidence.

DCF




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: HyperReal-Anon 
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 16:53:42 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com
Subject: Re: Clinton's fake apologies (fwd)
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Sat, 12 Sep 1998, David Honig wrote:

> There is no evidence that Clinton actually *inhaled* on the
> flavored cigar...

Something here is a little fishy...





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 00:25:12 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: voice from the past
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980912221213.007c9870@m7.sprynet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




On Secrecy of Secrecy
	
Without the freedom to expose the system proposal to widespread scrutiny'
by clever minds of diverse interests, is to increase the risk that
significant points of potential weakness have been overlooked. A frank and
open discussion here is to our advantage.

http://www.rand.org/publications/RM/RM3765/RM3765.chapter2.html

Chapter 3 has an excellent picture of a binary key on a hollerith card...
http://www.rand.org/publications/RM/RM3765/RM3765.chapter3.html






  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 00:25:17 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: canadian cryptanalysis, eh?
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980912221243.007cf100@m7.sprynet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




http://watserv1.uwaterloo.ca/~brobinso/cryptan.html
also 
http://watserv1.uwaterloo.ca/~brobinso/rqmts.html

Suggested courses

•CA-105 - Introduction to Cryptography and Exploitation of Manual
Cryptosystems •CA-107 - Exploitation of Manual Cryptosystems •CA-123 -
Shift-Register Cryptology •CA-223 - Advanced Shift-Register Cryptology
•CA-247 - Vocoders for Cryptanalysts •MA-213 - PTAH •MA-246 -
Cryptomathematics for Mathematicians •MA-256 - Signal Processing
Mathematics[24] 


Knowledge of the following areas of Mathematics is required:



•Probability and Statistics including Stochastic and Markov Processes,
•Linear Algebra and Abstract Algebra including Finite Field Theory, Shift
Register and Polynomial Theory, •Communications, Information and Coding
Theory, •Sampling Theory, •Digital Filtering, •Numerical Methods, and •Fast
Transformation Algorithms. 






  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Duncan Frissell 
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 22:10:16 +0800
To: Tim May 
Message-ID: <199809130309.XAA14731@mail1.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 07:18 PM 9/12/98 -0700, Tim May wrote:
>
>I've seen several Cypherpunks express the opinion that can be summarized as
>"We paid $40 million for _this_?" And "Ken Starr is on a witch hunt."

Ken Starr is investigating 5 separate Clinton criminal conspiracies.  Walsh
took 7 years and $60megs to investigate Iran/Contra (two criminal
conspiracies).

I like it when the rulers are consumed by their own creations.

DCF

Extra credit awarded for naming Starr's 5 investigations.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John McCormac 
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 18:05:11 +0800
To: "Brian W. Buchanan" 
Message-ID: <35FAFEA3.D737AC1B@hackwatch.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Brian W. Buchanan wrote:
> 
> > THIS PACKAGE IS DISTRIBUTED TO LAW ENFORCEMENT AND
> > PRIVATE INVESTIGATORS ONLY!!  THE ARCHIVE FILE IS [PKZip]
> > ENCRYPTED, AND YOU WILL NEED A PASSWORD TO EXTRACT
> > THE ARCHIVE.  IF YOU ARE NOT WORKING IN LAW ENFORCEMENT,
 
> According to one of the READMEs that comes with a public domain
> implementation of the PKZIP crypto algorithm, there is a 

A few years ago the plaintext attack was implmented. One of the first
tests was on an encrypted file released in Europe that was supposed to
contain the source code and emulation of the Sky 0A smartcard. It
cracked it in about 3 hours I seem to recall.

The implementation worked exceedingly well and ran on Linux. The page
says that the w95 version is also available. 

http://www.unix-ag.uni-kl.de/~conrad/krypto/pkcrack.html

Regards...jmcc
-- 
********************************************
John McCormac            * Hack Watch News
jmcc@hackwatch.com       * 22 Viewmount, 
Voice:   +353-51-873640  * Waterford,
BBS&Fax: +353-51-850143  * Ireland
http://www.hackwatch.com/~kooltek
********************************************

-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
Version: 2.6

mQCNAzAYPNsAAAEEAPGTHaNyitUTNAwF8BU6mF5PcbLQXdeuHf3xT6UOL+/Od+z+
ZOCAx8Ka9LJBjuQYw8hlqvTV5kceLlrP2HPqmk7YPOw1fQWlpTJof+ZMCxEVd1Qz
TRet2vS/kiRQRYvKOaxoJhqIzUr1g3ovBnIdpKeo4KKULz9XKuxCgZsuLKkVAAUX
tCJKb2huIE1jQ29ybWFjIDxqbWNjQGhhY2t3YXRjaC5jb20+tBJqbWNjQGhhY2t3
YXRjaC5jb20=
=sTfy
-----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 07:15:39 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: radio net
In-Reply-To: <199809130024.UAA12462@mx02.together.net>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 8:24 PM -0400 on 9/12/98, Brian B. Riley wrote:



>  Bob, I am afraid you are showing your ignorance here.

I don't think so.

> SSB is just one of
> the many modes of emission standardized in radio communications, its used
> by the amateur radio service (ham) , the citizens radio service (cb), the
> military, etc ...

I know what Single Sideband means. As I've said before, and what you failed
to read later on in this thread, evidently, is that there are commercial
Single Sideband radios out there which have the range of ham sets. These
radios are used for commercial ship-to-shore traffic, and I expect that
encryption is legal on them. I expect that, because these frequencies are
subject to international convention rather than federal law, they have more
leeway (heh... nautical pun) on their use. Including, I bet, digital
packets and encryption.


>  The real problem is that to build any sort of network would require some
> fixed positions, which, if it were intended to be 'clandestine' would be
> compromised sooner or later ... either that or several poor shnooks would
> have full time jobs driving vans around and around to keep the RDF snoops
> guessing ...

My understanding is that Ryan's looking for some kind of post-infocalyptic
radio network for when it All Falls Down Sometime Soon (tm). I expect that
in that event, Ham would be fine, because there is no, as Mr. Gore likes to
say, controlling legal authority, to worry about. But, to put up and test a
network, commercial SSB would do just fine. And, of course, After The Big
One, what kind of long-distance shortwave radio you run it on will be
superfluous, ham, SSB or no.

>  In general there would be a better chance of pulling it off if you
> stayed away from the ham radio bands. 'self-policing' is not a character
> of another bands except the commercial broadcast bands.

Right, so (he says for the third time), why not just order a commerial
ship-to-shore SSB rig, something which costs within an order of magnitude,
plus or minus, of a Ham set, and go play?


>  Spread spectrum would have more promise as many stations could be on the
> air at once on the same frequency thus making life quite confusing for
> the T-hunters.

Right. If we had some, um, ham, we could have some ham and eggs. If we had
some eggs.

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Soren 
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 08:02:27 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: radio net
Message-ID: <35FBC34E.6B4F9127@workmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



SSB xceivers cost <$700. Try any marine electronics store.  Best choice
is a ham xceiver with strap selectable SSB (actually a violation of FCC
dictate to enable SSB on a ham rig, but everyone does it anyway). This
would cost ~$1500, the Icom 7658 is a good one I know of. Go and get
your local equivalent of a VHF license, send in the extension to cover
SSB (~$50).   Then purchase a 'PacRat' from any ham hangout. I got mine
in Redwood City CA, on El Camino real - some years back now though.
This is a little box that hooks into the back of the ham/SSB set and
into a serial port of your PC.  It comes with some basic packet handling
software.  Last time I looked, PacRats were <$200.  Don't expect any
great xfr rates however.  Noise to signal requires many packet
retransmissions as the ionosphere is not a very good mirror.  Running
TCP/IP over it should be easily doable.  Basic use is to dial in the
frequency yourself on the SSB (this usually requires an auto-tuner ~$700
AND a manual tuner ~$100, for best results).  You need to get the best
antenna you can afford.  Unfortunately, antennas are frequency range
specific, so you'll probably need 3: one for 0-5000 miles, 5000-12000,
12000-?.  Its easy to rig the tuner to support 2-3 antennas, switch
selectable.  You need a Good Earth for anything to happen as expected.
By now it should be possible to get some extra SW to drive the freq
selection, so you could do spread spectrum.  This is not allowed of
course, as you are expected to do the call-sign exchange protocol on
each freq session.  There are freqs that are dedicated to digital
(ship-to-shore commercial).  You may have to get a commercial license
for this though.  One nasty thing about radio is that you share the
spectrum with others, so collisions tend to make a hash out of
reliability.  Store and forward at unpopular times such as 3:00 EST,
could be a good alternative.  The longer distance freqs (>12000), are
the most uncluttered, but suffer from the most noise to signal.  A
bounce across the pacific to the house next door, would be potentially
more reliable than a lower freq. Most of the ham sets also support FM,
so it would also be possible to piggyback on the ricochet freqs for line
of sight use. Or for a real adrenaline rush, piggyback the mil freqs.

If you really want to give the hams fits,  write a noise to morse engine
(or better yet, some captured call signs repeated endlessly) and swamp
the channels, where the old popular mechanics guys discuss their antenna
envy, at random intervals. 9:00 in the Ozarks is a fine time.  Sit back
and wait for the black vans to drive up.

"Educate, don't Agitate"




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Duncan Frissell 
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 08:13:59 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Clinton's fake apologies
Message-ID: <199809131313.JAA12863@mail1.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



If nothing else, Clinton deserves his troubles because he is a very strong
supporter of the legal structures that caused them.

1)  He is a lawyer and a strong supporter of the trial lawyers who have
promoted extremely expansive civil discovery of the sort that allowed
Clinton to be questioned about Monica in the Jones case.

2)  He is a strong advocate of the sort of sexual harassment law that led
to the Jones case.  He thinks it should be punished harshly.  A real feminist.

3)  He is a strong advocate of the Ethics in Government Act and pushed its
renewal through Congress in 1994 when the Act was going to expire and when
the Dems controlled both houses of Congress.

4)  He is a law-and-order liberal who believes in executing retarded
murderers and jailing hospital execs who submit Medicare bills based on
misunderstandings of detailed and contradictory regulations.

5)  His wife (and presumably he) was a strong supporter of an expansive
definition of "high crimes and misdemeanors" during Watergate.

"Hoist on your own petard" (and I even know what a petard is).

DCF




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Duncan Frissell 
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 08:51:47 +0800
To: Tim May 
Message-ID: <199809131351.JAA14866@mail1.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 08:41 PM 9/12/98 -0700, Tim May wrote:
>>Extra credit awarded for naming Starr's 5 investigations.
>
>Let's see:
>
>-- Whitewater and Madison Guarantee (may be 2 separate investigations)
>
>-- Filegate (White House had 1100 FBI files, overseen by Craig the Bar
Bouncer)
>
>-- Travelgate (replacing the old staff is kosher, but accusing them of
>crimes is not)
>
>-- Cigargate
>

1) Whitewater

2) Vince Foster

3) Travelgate

4) Filegate

5) Fornigate

DCF




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 09:53:38 +0800
To: Duncan Frissell 
Subject: Re: Clinton--Why I am Chortling
In-Reply-To: <199809131351.JAA14866@mail1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <199809131451.KAA19264@domains.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In <199809131351.JAA14866@mail1.panix.com>, on 09/13/98 
   at 09:53 AM, Duncan Frissell  said:

>At 08:41 PM 9/12/98 -0700, Tim May wrote:
>>>Extra credit awarded for naming Starr's 5 investigations.
>>
>>Let's see:
>>
>>-- Whitewater and Madison Guarantee (may be 2 separate investigations)
>>
>>-- Filegate (White House had 1100 FBI files, overseen by Craig the Bar
>Bouncer)
>>
>>-- Travelgate (replacing the old staff is kosher, but accusing them of
>>crimes is not)
>>
>>-- Cigargate
>>

>1) Whitewater

>2) Vince Foster

>3) Travelgate

>4) Filegate

>5) Fornigate

Unfortunately, there is still Chinagate that Reno is still stonewalling
the investigations on.

What ever happened with Cattlegate ($100,000 bribe payed to Hillary)?

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: Windows: an Unrecoverable Acquisition Error!

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Version: 2.6.3a-sha1
Charset: cp850
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Duncan Frissell 
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 10:07:13 +0800
To: "William H. Geiger III" 
Subject: Re: Clinton--Why I am Chortling
In-Reply-To: <199809131351.JAA14866@mail1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <199809131506.LAA19297@mail1.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 09:57 AM 9/13/98 -0500, William H. Geiger III wrote:

>What ever happened with Cattlegate ($100,000 bribe payed to Hillary)?

Statute of Lim had long passed.  Also, I'm not sure if an unemployed
hausfrau living in public housing in the District of Columbia is a "covered
person" under the Ethics in Government Act.

Ken *can* prosecute her for crimes uncovered in the course of his
investigation and she has no special privileges (other than spousal).

Chelsea too (Misprison of a Felony, probably).

Socks and Buddy are immune since animal prosecutions ended with the Middle
Ages.

DCF




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Alan Olsen 
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 23:28:11 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Monica, slavegirl of Gor (fwd)
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



This was found on a different mailing lists.  names have been removed to
protect the guilty.

alan@ctrl-alt-del.com | Note to AOL users: for a quick shortcut to reply
Alan Olsen            | to my mail, just hit the ctrl, alt and del keys.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Subject: Re: Monica, slavegirl of Gor

The best opinion I've heard so far on this topic: "If the government's going to
spend $50 million on pornography, I'd rather it be by artists I support."

Carol




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Alan Olsen 
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 23:38:31 +0800
To: Tim May 
Subject: Re: Clinton--Why I am Chortling
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Sat, 12 Sep 1998, Tim May wrote:

> I've seen several Cypherpunks express the opinion that can be summarized as
> "We paid $40 million for _this_?" And "Ken Starr is on a witch hunt."
> 
> Indeed, a lot of money spend by the Independent Prosecutor. And Starr is
> indeed a Grand Inquisitor.

"Our weapons are Fear, Surprise, and our fanatical devotion to the
Demipublican party." 

> But he is following the law, and Attorney General Janet Reno authorized his
> latest venture.
> 
> I'm generally pleased with what's happening. Many points to make:

[snip]

Another that I think is relivant:

* He has been very anti-encryption for the American public, but is very
willing to use it to protect his own ass.  The hypocrasy of the situation
is glaring.

> Ironically, this situation is now so well known that such a statement would
> almost certainly be taken by a judge today as contempt of court. And yet we
> put up with having this lying sack of shit in the White House.
> 
> I am chortling.

"Now is the time on Sprockets when we dance!"

alan@ctrl-alt-del.com | Note to AOL users: for a quick shortcut to reply
Alan Olsen            | to my mail, just hit the ctrl, alt and del keys.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 15:19:54 +0800
To: Tim May 
Subject: Re: Clinton--Why I am Chortling
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




On Sat, 12 Sep 1998, Tim May wrote:

> * What goes around, comes around. The Liberal puke Democrats who crucified
> Bob Packwood, Clarence Thomas, and any number of corporate people charged
> with "sexual harassment," are now reaping what they sowed. "If she says it
> happened, it happened," the mantra of the feminazi left, is now apparently
> forgotten by Patricia It's not our business" Ireland.

There's also the idea popular in some gender feminist circles that the
imbalance of power in manager-employee relationships makes it impossible
for genuine consent to be given. Can there be any greater power imbalance
than the president of the United States and an intern? Where are the
feminist cries of outrage?

> * Lawmaking is paralzyed, frozen, stillborne. This I count as a Good Thing.
> Even better will be another 8-10 months of this nightly spectacle. No
> Health Care Reform, no Communications Decency Act II, no Tobacco Act,
> nothing.

In general you might be right. But for "noncontroversial" measures like
CDA II, well, it'll be in one of the appropriations bills that will be
approved in the next three weeks.

> * This disgraces the Presidency, which I also count as a Good Thing. There
> were hopes that Nixon's downfall would be the end of the Imperial
> Presidency, but, alas, the pomp and circumstance continued unabated. It's

The balance of power in the U.S. government is too tilted in favor of the
executive and federal agencies; I think more should be returned to
Congress and the states but don't think we're going to see that happen. To
do that Congress needs to be willing to seize it; they're not. If we get
Al Gore in the Oval Office we'll have business as usual.

-Declan





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 13:19:05 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: radio net
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


MIME-Version: 1.0
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 09:11:29 -0700
To: Robert Hettinga 
From: Somebody
Subject: Re: radio net

>
>I know what Single Sideband means. As I've said before, and what you failed
>to read later on in this thread, evidently, is that there are commercial
>Single Sideband radios out there which have the range of ham sets. These
>radios are used for commercial ship-to-shore traffic, and I expect that
>encryption is legal on them. I expect that, because these frequencies are
>subject to international convention rather than federal law, they have more
>leeway (heh... nautical pun) on their use. Including, I bet, digital
>packets and encryption.
>
>

If I remember correctly, this is escrowed encryption using code
books deposited with the appropriate authorities.



--- end forwarded text


*That* sucks... I wonder who the "appropriate authorities" are?

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 13:18:35 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: The Empire Strikes Back (was IP: Army Tests Land Warrior for 21stCentury Soldiers)
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Delivered-To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
X-Sender: believer@telepath.com
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 09:33:31 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com
From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Army Tests Land Warrior for 21st Century Soldiers
Mime-Version: 1.0
Sender: owner-ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
Precedence: list
Reply-To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  Department of Defense
http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Sep1998/n09111998_9809117.html

-------
NOTE: Website includes three photographs of device in use. No mention of
whether the computerized software in the device, of the GPS link and its
satellites are Y2K compliant.
-------

Army Tests Land Warrior for 21st Century Soldiers

 By Jim Garamone
 American Forces Press Service

FORT BELVOIR, Va. -- American soldiers and Marines are already among the
most deadly in the world, but a system called Land  Warrior will soon make
them unmatched.

 Land Warrior integrates small arms with high-tech equipment enabling
ground forces to deploy, fight and win on the battlefields of the 21st
century.

 "Land Warrior soldiers fight as a system, and the most important part of
the system is what's between his ears," said Army Lt. Col. Robert Serino,
Land Warrior product manager.

 Land Warrior came about in 1991 when an Army study group recommended the
service look at the soldier as a complete weapon system. The first priority
in Land Warrior is lethality. The second is survivability and the third,
command and control. The program will cost $2 billion when 45,000 sets of
the equipment are fielded between 2001-2014. The Marine Corps, Air Force
and many foreign countries are interested in the system.

 "First and foremost, Land Warrior is a fighting system," Serino said. Land
Warrior has several subsystems: the weapon, integrated helmet assembly,
protective clothing and individual equipment, computer/radio, and software.

 The weapon subsystem is built around the M-16/M-4 modular carbine. It has
a laser range finder/digital compass, a daylight video camera, a laser
aiming light and a thermal sight.

 "This system will allow infantrymen to operate in all types of weather and
at night," Serino said. In conjunction with other components, a soldier can
even shoot around corners without exposing himself to enemy fire.

 The integrated helmet assembly is lighter and more comfortable than
today's helmet, Serino said. It has a helmet-mounted monocular day display,
a night sensor with flat panel display, a laser detection module,
ballistic/laser eye protection, a microphone and a headset.

 The protective clothing and individual equipment subsystem incorporates
modular body armor and upgrade plates that can stop small-arms rounds fired
point-blank. It includes an integrated load-bearing frame,
chemical/biological protective garments and modular rucksack.

 The infantryman will attach the computer/radio subsystem to his
load-bearing frame. Over this goes the rucksack for personal gear. The
computer processor is fused with radios and a Global Positioning System
locator. A hand grip wired to the pack and attached to the soldier's chest
acts as a computer mouse and also allows the wearer to change screens, key
on the radio, change frequencies and send digital information.

 The subsystem comes in two flavors: The leader version has two radios and
a flat panel display/keyboard, and soldiers have one radio. With the
equipment, leaders and soldiers can exchange information. Soldiers using
their weapon-mounted camera, for example, can send videos to their leaders.

 Finally, the software subsystem includes tactical and mission support
modules, maps and tactical overlays, and the ability to capture and display
video images. The system also contains a power management module. Designers
set up the system so it can be updated as technology improves.

 The soldiers who will actually use Land Warrior have been consulted every
step of the way. Prime contractor Raytheon worked with experts at the U.S.
Army Infantry Center at Fort Benning, Ga., in designing the system. They
have taken the system to the users to ensure the system is headed in the
right direction.

 For instance, Serino said, "The rucksack has quick-release straps so an
infantryman can just drop it if the need arises. This is what our soldiers
asked for -- which is really great."

 One problem the Army must overcome before fielding is power. Current
batteries last about 150 minutes with all systems running. "Clearly
soldiers won't have all systems running all the time, but this is still not
acceptable," said Serino. Other batteries under development by the Army's
Communications-Electronics Command may push the time up to 30 hours.

 The Army plans to test the Land Warrior system with a platoon from the
82nd Airborne Division, Fort Campbell, Ky. Later, a battalion-sized test is
planned, Serino said.

 "Ultimately, soldiers will define the end state of Land Warrior -- and
we'll know more every time the soldiers employ the system," he said. "We'll
get the system up to a certain point, then the soldiers will be the people
who say how far it can really go."
 -----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




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--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 16:27:39 +0800
To: Soren 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980913142530.007d1bc0@m7.sprynet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 09:06 AM 9/13/98 -0400, Soren wrote:
>If you really want to give the hams fits,  write a noise to morse engine
>(or better yet, some captured call signs repeated endlessly) and swamp
>the channels, where the old popular mechanics guys discuss their antenna
>envy, at random intervals. 9:00 in the Ozarks is a fine time.  Sit back
>and wait for the black vans to drive up.

Performance art: solar-powered low-power, low-freq modulators 
(Hams get off designing this stuff) with
digitized true noise inputs, scattered about the desert.    Maybe scattered in
a big smiley face pattern. Extra points for burst transmissions.

Too subtle for SRL but amusing nonetheless....










  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 10:05:57 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: No Subject
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199809131506.PAA02152@earth.wazoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>>>>> "Bobby" == Robert Hettinga  writes:

  > My understanding is that Ryan's looking for some kind of
  > post-infocalyptic radio network for when it All Falls Down
  > Sometime Soon (tm). I expect that in that event, Ham would be
  > fine, because there is no, as Mr. Gore likes to say, controlling
  > legal authority, to worry about.

Worse, there may be any number of "controlling legal authorities".

You don't suppose that all the existing radio monitoring equipment is
going to stop working just because the infrastructure for managing it
is in disarray?

Or that people with access to that equipment are going to have any
problem getting fuel for their helicopters from government fuel dumps?

But your communication network is going to become a valuable resource,
and more than one tin-pot wannabe is going to want to get his hands on
it.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "James A. Donald" 
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 18:37:47 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Offshore Banking In Latvia
In-Reply-To: <199809132148.XAA29865@replay.com>
Message-ID: <199809132336.QAA12214@proxy3.ba.best.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



    --
At 11:48 PM 9/13/98 +0200, Anonymous wrote:
> Found this: http://offshorehaven.nu/banking/index.html no
> idea whether a trap or a jewel.

Looks a whole lot more promising than the EUB (which turned
out to be a classic take the money and run operation)

The web site is not in the US, which shows that they are
serious.  Latvia is a pro capitalist, anti communist
government.  (I regard the US government as anti capitalist
and soft on communism),  The government sees itself as
presiding over an economy that is still basically socialist,
even though they have transformed far more rapidly and
radically than most of the former Soviet Union, in
particularly they have transformed far more radically than
Russia.

On the other hand, many of the facts that one would need to
know in order to know how safe your money is are simply not
made available.  In particular the web site does not mention
the banks name. 

Oh wow.  That does not inspire confidence.

They write:
       Q. What is the name of the Bank? 
       A. This is the typical question asked by "wannabes"
            and competitors.   Our firm does not disclose the
            name of the Bank until confirmation of the
            payment of our fees is received. The Bank only
            wants to deal with people interested in opening
            and operating such accounts. If the information
            provided by our firm does not satisfy you, then
            it definitely means that you are not interested
            in opening an offshore bank account. 

Well actually it means that any sane person would regret
handing over their money as soon as they discover the name of
the bank.

Some time ago a bank in Russia opened.  Its name was "Fuck
you" in Russian, spelt backwards.  The bank soon disappeared,
with the depositors money.

What is "fuck you" in Latvian? 

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     5f1OaRdJKerB2Mx0HCiBWPBIAzs9ziDsmpdrl/m1
     4cfQ2P6hHFL6HZHebpSnhsUfLL4PwuUmFSRu6dP+9




>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  
> 

-----------------------------------------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because 
of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this 
right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.


http://www.jim.com/jamesd/      James A. Donald




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "James A. Donald" 
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 18:52:09 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Offshore Banking In Latvia
Message-ID: <199809132350.QAA02796@proxy4.ba.best.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



    --
> > Found this: http://offshorehaven.nu/banking
> > noidea whether a trap or a jewel.

Just in case my first message was unclear:

Offshore banking in Latvia looks good.

The above website looks like a con.

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     JXDMmaEyma+jN7wyVhvlYcOrLB7iNaWSDaDfE2dl
     4B2lFoTKEej/7263gNwJ8CpUWXMXIdco2pG0PzcFL
-----------------------------------------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because 
of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this 
right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.


http://www.jim.com/jamesd/      James A. Donald




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ryan Anderson 
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 16:31:01 +0800
To: Anonymous 
Subject: Re: Revenge of the AOLHoles
In-Reply-To: <199809110152.DAA09397@replay.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> The problem is that most of the AOL users who publish to the net seem to
> be morons. They use some annoying Russo-Germanic quoting style, they can't
> use English, they're clueless, they post off-topic, or something else. 

In all fairness, many of the users on AOL *know* that the AOL quoting
style is utterly horrible.  Unofrtunatley, they don't have much choice in
what they use.

Ryan Anderson 
PGP fp: 7E 8E C6 54 96 AC D9 57  E4 F8 AE 9C 10 7E 78 C9




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Well now I am a Mommy!" 
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 20:37:44 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: sixdegrees
Message-ID: <19980914012729.12617.qmail@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



hi,

I see you added me as a friend..... just wondering who you are.  :)

Christy

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 12:17:03 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199809131705.TAA10263@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



son of gomez




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 21:23:05 +0800
To: "Well now I am a Mommy!" 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 6:27 PM -0700 9/13/98, Well now I am a Mommy! wrote:
>hi,
>
>I see you added me as a friend..... just wondering who you are.  :)
>
>Christy
>

Hi Christy,

Got your name from the Stalker's R Us group. Please post more details about
your personal fantasies. Send us nude pictures, too.

You say you're a Mommy. Hope there are no stretch marks.

Oh, and your children can join our group too. Got any photos?

--Tim May



(This space left blank pending determ. of acceptability to the gov't.)
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 12:30:38 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199809131728.TAA11651@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Sunday, September 13, 1998 - 19:23:30 MET

Talk about unimaginable control. How many times 
did Monica provoke William Jefferson Clinton? 
Four or five, before he deigned that there should
be a denouement? And why? Because, deep in his 
heart, he knew it was just wrong!  Impeachment?  
Hardly.  Instead, Congress should award this Man,
our magnificent President, a new decoration, 
the "Presidential Blue Spheres of Steel"!  
Can one imagine any other person on Earth with 
such iron control?  Fortunately, yes! 
And who could this be?  You guessed it!  
None other than Will-O-Iron's buddy and potential 
replacement, Ol Stiffy himself, Al.  
O blessed land.  O fortunate realm. This is one 
American who will sleep more soundly tonight, 
knowing that, whatever the provocation, there can 
be no accidental discharge of US weaponry, that 
the finger on the button is controlled by a 
Will-of-Iron.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 22:30:22 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Y2K: 316,862 Reasons Why FedReserve Won't Make It
Message-ID: <199809140329.UAA27154@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Y2K: 316,862 Reasons Why FedReserve Won't Make It
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 22:24:39 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

North's Comments about Article Below:

 In June, 1998, a pair of experts -- one is a y2k optimist -- produced a
report on the likelihood of system-wide failures based on the number of
external exchanges of data an organization has. It is called the
Beach/Oleson Pain Index. (Oleson is the optimist; Beach edits CIO
MAGAZINE.) BUSINESS TODAY reported: 

 "The Beach/Oleson Pain Index illustrates how the Y2K software glitch is
further compounded by connectivity to external organizations, such as
suppliers, customers, banks and other business partners." 

 There is a 10.4% likelihood of catastrophic failure for any organization
with over 1,000 external connections. It is only 0.5% for 50 connections,
1.1% for 100, 5.4% for 500. 

 The Federal Reserve System, the most important of all central banks, has
316,862. 

 This is from a July 1, 1998 report of the General Accounting Office of the
U.S. Congress. 

 The report outlines what every organization must do to protect itself from
importing noncompliant data. This list is long, and the task is gigantic.
Congressional committees should insist on receiving detailed quarterly
progress reports on these procedures from the Federal Reserve. Of course,
no elected official would be so bold or so impolite as to ask, let alone
demand. To ask such questions, the questioner would have to assume that
Congress has effective authority over the Federal Reserve, as the law says.
No Congressman who has served over one term is so naive as to believe that. 

 * * * * * * * * * 

 Federal agencies reported that they have a total of almost 500,000 data
exchanges with other federal agencies, states, local governments, and the
private sector for their mission-critical systems. Almost 90 percent of the
exchanges were reported by the Federal Reserve and the Department of
Housing and Urban Development (HUD) which reported having 316,862 and
133,567, respectively. The Federal Reserve exchanges data with federal
agencies and the private sector using software it provides to these
entities. . . . 

 As part of their Year 2000 correction efforts, organizations must identify
the date formats used in their data exchanges, develop a strategy for
dealing with exchanges that do not use 4-digit year formats, and implement
the strategy. These efforts generally involve the following steps. 

 -- Assess information systems to identify data exchanges that are not Year
2000 compliant. 

 -- Contact the exchange partner and reach agreement on the date format to
be used in the exchange. 

 -- Determine if data bridges and filters are needed. 

 -- Determine if validation processes are needed for incoming data. 

 -- Set dates for testing and implementing new exchange formats. 

 -- Develop and test bridges and filters to handle nonconforming data. 

 -- Develop contingency plans and procedures for data exchanges and
incorporate into overall agency contingency plans. 

 -- Implement the validation process for incoming data. 

 -- Test and implement new exchange formats. 

 The testing and implementation of new data exchanges must be closely
coordinated with exchange partners to be completed effectively. In addition
to an agency testing its data exchange software, effective testing involves
end-to-end testing--initiation of the exchange by the sending computer,
transmission through intermediate communications software and hardware, and
receipt and acceptance by receiving computer(s), thus completing the
exchange process. . . . 

 The Federal Reserve has 2-digit and 4-digit year formats in its data
exchanges. It plans to use 4-digit formats for all exchanges in the future,
but will continue using the 2-digit year format for some exchanges and have
exchange partners bridge to these if necessary. Federal Reserve's Year 2000
officials estimated that 20 percent of their data exchanges have 2-digit
year formats. They also told us that they have not set a target date for
the conversion to 4-digit year formats. . . .
----------------------------------
Source:  Business Today
http://www.businesstoday.com/techpages/y2kindex03.htm

BT EXCLUSIVE: Local researchers predict Y2K pain 

Wednesday, June 3, 1998

by Bill Burke/BusinessToday staff 

A team of technology researchers has come up with an index that they say
can tell a business just how bad its Year 2000 computer problem is going to
be.

The "Beach/Oleson Pain Index" is a chart of Y2K probabilities and
predictions based on a formula developed by team leaders Gary Beach,
publisher of CIO magazine, and International Data Corp. analyst Tom Oleson.

The index determines the "degree of pain" companies are likely to
experience when the Millennium Bug strikes.

The Beach/Oleson Pain Index illustrates how the Y2K software glitch is
further compounded by connectivity to external organizations, such as
suppliers, customers, banks and other business partners.

The pair will unveil the index today at a Year 2000 conference in Omaha.

In the end, Beach says, no one is going to make it through the Millennium
threshold untouched.

"Realistically, no connected company can expect to survive the Year 2000
unscathed," Beach said. 

He said the formula answers the fifty-thousand dollar question: 'Just how
bad is it going to be?'

The index works by taking a company's number of connected applications and
plugging that figure into the index. 

"A company can determine the severity of its Year 2000 problem and create
an appropriate contingency plan," Beach said.

The index can help companies plan for the deadline, and develop contingency
plans, say the designers.

"Companies implementing various Year 2000 compliance projects must come to
the realization that the Year 2000 problem is not 100 percent solvable,"
Oleson said.

The index uses the number of applications a company has connected to
external partners, vendors and customers to determine the severity of the
Y2K situation. The probability of experiencing a Year 2000 problem is
broken down into four degrees of severity: Annoying; Disruptive; Business
Critical and Catastrophic. 

                "0">

                  Number of
                 Connected
                 Applications
                            Probability:
                            Catastrophic
                                        Probability:
                                        Business
                                        Critical
                                                   Probability:
                                                   Disruptive
                                                              Probability:
                                                              Annoying
                 5
                             0.1%
                                        1.0%
                                                   3.7%
                                                              7.4%
                 10
                            0.1%
                                        2.1%
                                                   7.3%
                                                              14.3%
                 20 
                            0.2%
                                        4.1%
                                                   14.0%
                                                              26.5%
                 50 
                            0.5%
                                        10.0%
                                                   31.4%
                                                              53.7%
                 100 
                            1.1%
                                        19.0%
                                                   52.9%
                                                              78.6%
                 500 
                            5.4%
                                        65.0%
                                                   97.7%
                                                              100.0%
                 1000 
                            10.4%
                                        87.8%
                                                   99.9%
                                                              100.0%




-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 22:30:03 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: British Openly Prepare for Y2K Martial Law
Message-ID: <199809140329.UAA27171@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: British Openly Prepare for Y2K Martial Law
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 22:26:39 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  http://www.garynorth.com/y2k/detail_.cfm/2553

Category:  Martial_Law
Date:  1998-09-11 13:47:42
Subject:  British Openly Prepare for Y2K Martial Law
Link:  http://www.independent.co.uk/stories/A1109820.html

 Comment: 

 The British government is way ahead of every other nation in facing up to
the implications of y2k. 

 It is obvious the the U.S. military is preparing for martial law in late
1999, but no official publicly admits that this is the case. 

 The British are more forthright. 

 This is from THE INDEPENDENT (Sept. 11). [The link was dead within hours.] 

 * * * * * * * * 

 TROOPS may be on the streets in the year 2000 under emergency Home Office
plans to maintain vital services which could be crippled by the millennium
computer bug. 

 Armed forces will be on standby to help councils and police provide
disaster relief if key infrastructures such as hospitals, water supplies
and roads are hit by the electronic change. 

 The Home Office confirmed yesterday that local authorities are being
encouraged to draw up contingency plans to deal with the "nightmare
scenario" of failed traffic lights, disabled water pumping stations, fuel
shortages and other disrupted services. 

 The bug, which represents the inability of most computers and electronic
systems to deal with the change of date from 1999 to 2000, could also hit
vital equipment in hospitals, lifts, benefits payments and phone lines. 

 Most computer experts believe that major failures are unlikely, but
councils, which have a statutory duty to provide emergency relief, have
been told to prepare for the worst. They will be allowed to use the Armed
Forces Military Aid to Civil Authorities Act to call in emergency help. . . . 

 Rail, telecommunications, gas and electricity regulators were joined by
BT, Shell, Transco and Trailtrack to agree ways to reassure the public that
their computers were being adapted to avoid the bug. . . . 

 In one key sanction, BT and Cable and Wireless have been told they will be
given the power to disconnect firms that corrupt phone connections. . . . 

 Home Secretary Jack Straw is ultimately responsible for emergency planning
as chairman of a body called the Civil Contingencies Committee. The Home
Office Emergency Planning Division will meet this month to firm its own
proposals. 
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 23:06:56 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Impeachment Petition
Message-ID: <199809140329.UAA27182@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: vols-fan@juno.com (Football Fan)
Subject: IP: Impeachment Petition
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 22:59:15 -0500
To: baldmccoy@prodigy.net, PiercedEar@juno.com, TTMCCOY@juno.com, psm127_dad@mailcity.com, phmitch@mindspring.com, stringtickler@hotmail.com, Jimjean5013@juno.com, laney@arkansas.net, JESSICA.HARDAGE@charleston.af.mil, teyze-barbi@juno.com, rjohnson@bstream.com, iarthuriarthur@juno.com, w-t-14@juno.com, Bripowell@nidlink.com, supertrician@juno.com, barsotti@bstream.com

http://congress.nw.dc.us/impeach/petition.html




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 22:30:40 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Germ sabotage scare empties city buildings-Australia
Message-ID: <199809140329.UAA27192@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Germ sabotage scare empties city buildings-Australia
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 08:49:10 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  The Australian	
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/webie.asp?URL=/state/4366234.htm>http://www.
theaustralian.com.au/webie.asp?URL=/state/4366234.htm

Germ sabotage scare empties city buildings
 The Courier-Mail - 12sep98

POLICE are investigating a possible attempt to sabotage a Brisbane city
building by putting the potentially deadly legionella bacteria in the
air-conditioner.

A canister suspected of containing the bacteria was found in the water
cooling system for the Mercantile Mutual building's air- conditioning unit
on Thursday.

Police suspect the canister was placed there deliberately because recent
routine tests on the Edward Street building's air-conditioning showed no
sign of the deadly bacteria in its system.

Det Snr-Sgt Bryan Paton said the maintenance company responsible for the
unit had not seen the canister when it previously checked the water cooling
tower.

"There is an indication that the device has been put in the water
deliberately and there is a concern there may have been some legionella
bacteria in the device and we have to wait for those results," Sgt Paton said.

"It wasn't a threat to the public or anybody and the air-conditioning
system has since been decontaminated but the concern is that someone has
done it deliberately. 

"At this stage we are treating it very seriously."

Police also are investigating how someone got access to the
air-conditioning unit. The canister sparked a mass evacuation of another
city building yesterday when it was delivered there by mistake. 

Maintenance workers delivered the canister to the Mercantile Mutual
building managers, whose offices are in the MLC building. 

The MLC building, in George Street, was evacuated about 2pm yesterday when
the canister, sealed in a metal container, was discovered by office staff.

Police and fire and ambulance crews were called to the scene and two
Queensland Fire Service officers wearing protective clothing removed the
canister.

The building was declared safe 90 minutes later and staff returned to work.
Insp John Flanagan said the evacuations were a precautionary measure and
the canister had been taken to the Government Chemical Laboratory for
analysis.

The company responsible for managing the MLC building refused to comment,
but a staff member said the scare had been blown out of proportion.

The bacteria needs a moist environment to develop into the water-borne
legionnaires' disease which can cause pneumonia, fever and death.

The disease is contracted by inhaling air contaminated by air-conditioning
cooling towers, or through whirlpool spas and showers containing
contaminated water.

The Australian upper limit for legionella bacteria in air- conditioning is
a colony count of 10,000. The Mercantile Mutual building had a colony count
of 2000. 

Sgt Paton said police did not know the reason for the possible sabotage and
no demands or threats had been made. "People maintaining the
air-conditioning units in other buildings should be aware of this and
ensure all proper precautions are made," Sgt Paton said.

Brisbane Southside Public Health Unit medical officer Brad McCall said
legionella was a very common bacterium found in creeks, ponds,
air-conditioning cooling towers and hot and cold water taps.

(c) News Limited 1998
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 22:30:25 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Two Reporters Attacked at Governor's Rally*
Message-ID: <199809140329.UAA27203@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: vols-fan@juno.com (Football Fan)
Subject: IP: Two Reporters Attacked at Governor's Rally*
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 10:55:22 -0500
To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com

Alex@989kjfk.com

**********************************************
Quantum Reality News 
Two Reporters Attacked at Governor's Rally*
***********************************************

	This morning two Free Press Reporters at Governor George
Bush's Rally at the Du Pont Factory in Round Rock Texas were
assaulted and silenced from questioning Gov. Bush, while asking
pertinent questions.  Questions specifically about the CFR and
Federal Reserve involvement in Texas and the US.  No response was
given and orders were immediately given to the Secret Service and
Texas DPS, to remove the reporters.

 Alex Jones Alex@989kjfk.com "Talk Radio Show Host for KJFK 98.9
FM" [www.989kjfk.com] Austin and Central Texas and "Republic National
Radio Broadcasting System" and his Producer Mike Hansen of the Austin
Access TV Show "Exposing Corruption" Channel 10 ACTV were grabbed and
roughed up and removed from the rally by force.  Alex Jones was
forceably arrested and taken away and later released by a radio call
to the police unit.  The radio transmission instructed the officers
to release Alex Jones.  Governor Bush had ordered his release
stating, they had nothing to hold him on.  Mike Hansen while filming
the incident was hit from behind in an attempt to break his camera. 
The blow thrown from behind nearly knocked Hansen off his feet.  Mike
Hansen was not near the scuffle or in the area, he was filming from a
distance.  Both men received injuries.

	Not only were their 1st Amendment rights trampled and
forceable abridged by the Secret Service and DPS agents but their
questions were ignored, questions that are very important to voters. 
Evidentially these questions, that many of Governor Bush's
constituents are asking, were not address by our Governor, and
possible President hopeful.  The Question were about the Federal
Reserve control of our currency and it's role in the perpetuation of
oppressive debt in our country.  The active part the CFR (Council on
Foreign Relations) are playing in the take over and control of our
Country and their role in movement toward the New World Order.

	People expect the same accountability from the Governor, that
Governor Bush has been talking about in his campaign advertisements. 
Why were these citizens attacked?  Why were these questions so
offensive?  A Public Servant should be able to stay cool and have an
interest in all of his constituents and all their concerns.  If our
leadership will not calmly answer honest questions, it leads us as
responsible informed voters to ask questions of ourselves.  Why
aren't all of Governor Bush's constituents concerns and views
addressed?  Are special interest views and concerns, more valid or
more important than the majority of people and voters?  Is our
leadership truly representing "We the People" if they have someone
removed that asks a controversial question?

reporter: Randy Clark/Quantum Reality

---
You are currently subscribed to tuac-alerts as: [vols-fan@juno.com]
To unsubscribe, forward this message to leave-tuac-alerts-184675B@XC.Org


--------- End forwarded message ----------




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 22:30:45 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Vote on Clinton
Message-ID: <199809140329.UAA27214@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: vols-fan@juno.com (Football Fan)
Subject: IP: Vote on Clinton
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 19:24:26 -0500
To: baldmccoy@prodigy.net, PiercedEar@juno.com, TTMCCOY@juno.com, psm127_dad@mailcity.com, phmitch@mindspring.com, stringtickler@hotmail.com, Jimjean5013@juno.com, laney@arkansas.net, JESSICA.HARDAGE@charleston.af.mil, teyze-barbi@juno.com, rjohnson@bstream.com, iarthuriarthur@juno.com, w-t-14@juno.com, Bripowell@nidlink.com, supertrician@juno.com, barsotti@bstream.com

Dear Friends:
      MSNBC has a poll asking whether Clinton should go!  Right now its
70%
yes and 30% No.  Please go and vote.  Lets tell Clinton where he gets
off!
There was  117904 responses.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/default.asp

http://www.msnbc.com/news/default.asp 




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 13:56:36 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199809131855.UAA18056@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



How about a line-of-sight (LOS) infrared network, a neighbor-net?
Always thought this could be a method for a local technical
entrepreneur to fund and share their personal T-1 link or for
some small network enterprise to avoid local and US federal 
regulations and compete with the big cable and telephone 
companies. Appears that LOS infrared is currently unregulated
and could be encrypted.

Get enough people in a neighborhood to put LOS infrared 
relays on top of their houses, allow them to tap in, and feed this 
neighbor-net from some central point that is equipped with 
a more conventional link.

I dunno why infrared, which theoretically has much more 
capacity than a phone line or coax cable, seems currently so slow,
 i.e., less than 10 MB in many commercial offerings. I've no cost 
estimate for the roof top boxes. Heavy wet weather, fog, rain, 
snow obviously can affect LOS infrared, esp. low power.

Personally, I would like more choices than just the phone and cable 
lines, especially something that is locally controlled. However, I 
imagine that if any significant traffic was generated over such 
infrared or wireless neighbor-nets,  the Feds would eventually 
step in and regulate them.  They'd probably want to regulate the 
traffic over a taut string, between paper cups.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nnburk 
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 21:54:56 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Remailers
Message-ID: <35FCA076.6F15@yankton.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Are _any_ of the remailers working?




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 22:13:05 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Remailers (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809140335.WAA23282@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 21:49:58 -0700
> From: nnburk 
> Subject: Remailers

> 
> Are _any_ of the remailers working?
> 

Which remailers? The CDR members or the anonymous remailers?


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Neels Kriek" 
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 22:37:47 +0800
To: 
Subject: Re: Offshore Banking In Latvia
Message-ID: <001b01bddf90$ffbb6dc0$95060cd1@alien>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I have had dealings with the Paritate bank in Latvia.  Good bank and no con.

http://www.paritate.lv

Lots of different types of accounts.  
Regards





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: lcs Mixmaster Remailer 
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 18:10:34 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: MISTY encryption algorithm source code
Message-ID: <19980913230004.14914.qmail@nym.alias.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Nobuki Nakatuji wrote:

> MISTY source code posted by me at long ago had many mistake.
> Attachment file are revised MISTY source code and revised readme.
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

BRAIN used by you always since at long ago have many insect. Attachment
brain not here because was exhausted in decypher you message. You go back
at Hotmail now and stop spam Cypherpunks list. Chop chop. 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "sixdegrees"
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 22:12:38 +0800
To: "Joe Cypherpunk"
Subject: Your new password
Message-ID: <199809140305.UAA16429@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Name: Joe Cypherpunk
sixdegrees Password: kindread

In response to your request for a new sixdegrees(tm) password, 
we have sent you the following temporary password: kindread. 

As soon as you come to the site, http://www.sixdegrees.com , and use 
it to log-in on the home page, it will become your official 
password, and your old password will be deactivated. 

(If you end up remembering your old password and use that to 
log-in at the site before using this new temporary password, 
the temporary password will be deactivated.)

This may seem wacky, but it's for your security. And, either 
way, once you successfully log-in at the site, you can go to 
your personal profile and choose whatever password you like - 
in fact, we encourage you to do so.

If you never requested a new password and got this message in 
error, just continue using your old password and e-mail us at 
issues@sixdegrees.com. 

====================================================================
PLEASE NOTE: All replies to this address are processed by a computer.
If you have any problems, questions or requests send an e-mail to 
issues@sixdegrees.com and someone will get back to you as soon as 
possible.
====================================================================




E.SI.REQPW.1




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 16:49:12 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199809132148.XAA29865@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Found this: http://offshorehaven.nu/banking/index.html
no idea whether a trap or a jewel.









  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 18:15:52 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199809132309.BAA02915@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



"It has been claimed, for example, that free application of cryptography
enables drug traffickers and terrorists to communicate in secret, without
the law enforcement officials being able to intercept their messages. In
some countries, strong encryption has been banned or the keys have to be
escrowed for government officials. With invisibility readily available to
anyone with moderate programming skills, it is obvious that any such
measures are ineffective. "

This from the most recent online 
National Counterintelligence Center
Counterintelligence News and Developments
Volume 2
June 1998

http://www.nacic.gov/cind/june98.htm#rtoc4

"In some countries" indeed.








  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 18:12:25 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Revenge of the AOLHoles
Message-ID: <199809132311.BAA03065@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Sun, 13 Sep 1998, Ryan Anderson wrote:

> 
> > The problem is that most of the AOL users who publish to the net seem to
> > be morons. They use some annoying Russo-Germanic quoting style, they can't
> > use English, they're clueless, they post off-topic, or something else. 
> 
> In all fairness, many of the users on AOL *know* that the AOL quoting
> style is utterly horrible.  Unofrtunatley, they don't have much choice in
> what they use.

Sure they do. They can use a different mail reader. (After all, 32-bit AOL
allows AOL users to use all the TCP/IP protocols...) They can cut and
paste manually, or, probably best, they can go to another ISP. 

I understand what you're saying, Ryan, and I understand what they're
saying, but there all alternatives out there; they just don't want to use
them. In fact, they've installed proprietary packages that do this. There
are plenty of free alternatives out there which don't have this problem.

If my ISP pushed a bunch of proprietary software down my throat, I'd find
another ISP. That goes double if the proprietary software sucks. That goes
triple if the software sucks and the ISP is trying to get every idiot they
can to use it. (I got a "100 hours free network abuse" disk in the mail
recently from AOL.) 

Another AnonMonger






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Alan Olsen 
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 15:33:18 +0800
To: Declan McCullagh 
Subject: Re: Clinton--Why I am Chortling
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Sun, 13 Sep 1998, Declan McCullagh wrote:

> On Sat, 12 Sep 1998, Tim May wrote:
> 
> > * What goes around, comes around. The Liberal puke Democrats who crucified
> > Bob Packwood, Clarence Thomas, and any number of corporate people charged
> > with "sexual harassment," are now reaping what they sowed. "If she says it
> > happened, it happened," the mantra of the feminazi left, is now apparently
> > forgotten by Patricia It's not our business" Ireland.
> 
> There's also the idea popular in some gender feminist circles that the
> imbalance of power in manager-employee relationships makes it impossible
> for genuine consent to be given. Can there be any greater power imbalance
> than the president of the United States and an intern? Where are the
> feminist cries of outrage?

"But Clinton is on their side!"

I think the gender feminists are being quiet because they supported
Clinton.  It all comes down to politics.  There are other feminists I know
(of the non-politically correct variety) that have very unkind things to
say about the man.

> > * Lawmaking is paralzyed, frozen, stillborne. This I count as a Good Thing.
> > Even better will be another 8-10 months of this nightly spectacle. No
> > Health Care Reform, no Communications Decency Act II, no Tobacco Act,
> > nothing.
> 
> In general you might be right. But for "noncontroversial" measures like
> CDA II, well, it'll be in one of the appropriations bills that will be
> approved in the next three weeks.

Actually this is *JUST* the time for moralistic political posturing.
Expect to see a great deal of "holier than thou" legislation put through
under "bringing back morality to America". (And anyone who tries to fight
such lunacy will be labeled a hedonistic scum.)

It is scandals just like this that fuel the fires of the anti-sex league.

> > * This disgraces the Presidency, which I also count as a Good Thing. There
> > were hopes that Nixon's downfall would be the end of the Imperial
> > Presidency, but, alas, the pomp and circumstance continued unabated. It's
> 
> The balance of power in the U.S. government is too tilted in favor of the
> executive and federal agencies; I think more should be returned to
> Congress and the states but don't think we're going to see that happen. To
> do that Congress needs to be willing to seize it; they're not. If we get
> Al Gore in the Oval Office we'll have business as usual.

And remember that Tipper is part of that baggage.  Expect a moralistic
crusade or two from the first lady if that happens.

alan@ctrl-alt-del.com | Note to AOL users: for a quick shortcut to reply
Alan Olsen            | to my mail, just hit the ctrl, alt and del keys.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 23:46:48 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: The Empire Strikes Back (was IP: Army Tests Land Warrior for 21st
Message-ID: <199809140446.GAA23564@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Sun, 13 Sep 1998, Robert Hettinga wrote:

>  "First and foremost, Land Warrior is a fighting system," Serino said. Land
> Warrior has several subsystems: the weapon, integrated helmet assembly,
> protective clothing and individual equipment, computer/radio, and software.
> 
>  The weapon subsystem is built around the M-16/M-4 modular carbine. It has
> a laser range finder/digital compass, a daylight video camera, a laser
> aiming light and a thermal sight.

Great. So now instead of having ninjas come through our windows, we will
have Borg coming through our windows.

"Citizen-unit, we are Government. Resistance is futile. You will be
assimilated. Your personality will conform to our specifications.
Resistance is futile."

All they need to do now is employ nanotechnology and get some cool "whir
whir" sound effects, a big cube-shaped HQ, and maybe a cutting beam to
carve your house and car up like roasts when they seize them.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Steve Schear 
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 01:14:05 +0800
To: "Brian B. Riley" 
Subject: Re: radio net
In-Reply-To: <199809130024.UAA12462@mx02.together.net>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> Spread spectrum would have more promise as many stations could be on the
>air at once on the same frequency thus making life quite confusing for
>the T-hunters.

I investigated this application several years back and see two practical
approaches: one adapt a commercial SSB or Ham transciever to use frequency
hopping spread spectrum, or two build a pirate spread spectrum satellite
ground station.

Until recently most SSB gear didn't have the RF characteristics to use FH.
Now there are a number of inexpensive sets which use direct frequency
synthesis (as opposed to the older, and much slower, phase-locked loop
approach) and can be driven at hundreds or even thousands of hops per
second. FH helps solve two problems: first it provides privacy, second it
can mitigate or eliminate fading (which is highly time-frequency
correlated). Also, the higher the hop rate, the higher the process gain,
jam resistance and the lower the probablity of intecept (all other things
being equal).

It think it was Phil Karn (Qualcomm) who once mused that it would be rather
straightforward to masquarade a high process gain SS signal on a commercial
satellite transponder. To it's owners the SS signal would be almost
invisible, making itself known as only a very slight depression in the
transponder's gain. Effectively, this could offer an inexpensive covert
channel for tunneling packets and thwarting traffic analysis.

After the Captain Midnight episode I discussed this possibility with a very
technically knowledgeable staffer at the FCC and was assured that discovery
of such signals were beyond (at that time) the ability of commercial and
national technical (e.g., Lacrosse) means.

There's much more, but this should give you the general idea.

--Steve

---------------------------------------------------------------------
		reply to schear - at - lvcm - dot - com ---

PGP mail preferred, see  	http://www.pgp.com and
				http://web.mit.edu/network/pgp.html

RSA fingerprint: FE90 1A95 9DEA 8D61  812E CCA9 A44A FBA9
RSA key: http://keys.pgp.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=index&search=0x55C78B0D
---------------------------------------------------------------------





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Steve Schear 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 10:01:20 +0800
To: brianbr@together.net>
Subject: Re: radio net
In-Reply-To: <199809152029.QAA03672@mx02.together.net>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 11:41 PM -0400 9/15/98, Dave Emery wrote:
>> On 9/6/98 6:20 PM, Steve Schear (schear@lvcm.com)  passed this wisdom:
>
>	I suspect that the cost of equipment and licensing and regulatory
>compliance of various sorts might make it unpleasant for loosely knit
>groups of private citizens - uplinks require competant installation
>and maintainence to keep them from causing interference to other users
>and various other problems such as RF radiation hazards under control.

Because commercial satellite gear is almost always asembled from several
vendors to form a station, and because it can be assembled in many ways and
is invariably done so by professionals, there are no U.S. satellite
equipment regulations for such gear.

>
>	On the other hand, satellites are crawling with little signals
>transmitting streams of data or voice or music to groups of receivers
>scattered over wide geographic areas, so the econmics aren't prohibitive
>for people who have some real need...
>

Surplus gear is pleantiful for those who know where to look. The hardest
part is building the SS mod/demod and that's pretty straight forward for
any competent RF engineer.

If low bandwidth links can suffice, the very large spread codes (such as
those used by GPS) can be used to place the covert channel well below the
noise floor.  GPS uses a whopping 63dB of code gain.  This in turn means a
small earth station with low power (cheap) transmitter can suffice.  I
would be surprised if you could use a backyard or even DirectTV antenna.

--Steve

---------------------------------------------------------------------
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PGP mail preferred, see  	http://www.pgp.com and
				http://web.mit.edu/network/pgp.html

RSA fingerprint: FE90 1A95 9DEA 8D61  812E CCA9 A44A FBA9
RSA key: http://keys.pgp.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=index&search=0x55C78B0D
---------------------------------------------------------------------





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Steve Schear 
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 22:58:14 +0800
To: Dave Emery 
Subject: Re: Mobile phone tracking, pagers, etc
In-Reply-To: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A192846AF@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>On Thu, Sep 17, 1998 at 11:56:02AM -0700, Matthew James Gering wrote:
>	There are some distinctions between CDMA, GSM, analog and TDMA
>(non GSM), in respects to exactly how easy it is to implement precision
>location meeting the FCC spec passively and on all calls at all times.
>Apparently CDMA with its very tight power control to minimize the near-far
>problem makes it fairly awkward to reliably triangulate position from
>multiple sites since the mobile may be only detectable at one site
>at any time...  What this means in practice is that some wireless
>technologies are more likely to require some definate active firmware
>intervention to do precision location, whilst others may allow it
>with no special intervention.   If the FCC allows this intervention
>to be enabled by a user, this may provide some opportunity for
>location privacy.

If you can get hold of the older, analog, 'transportable' cell phones (like
Motorola used to make) which have an antenna connector, its relatively easy
to spoof the cell ranging system.  Just connect a directional antenna
(<$75) to the port (corner reflectors which have excellent front-to-back
ratios are particularly good).  You should easily be able to fool their
signal strength based equipment into thinking your in an adjacent cell.  If
you can find high ground so much the better.

>
>
>>
>>
>	Wireless phones do currently work this way.  They listen to the
>forward control channel for a paging message that says they have got a
>call coming in and only then do they transmit.  The amount of power used
>in transmitting would quickly use up the battery if they continuously
>broadcast.  The problem with cellphone location is that they can also be
>paged with a registration request that does not cause them to ring
>or show any evidence of transmitting, but sends back a brief message
>burst (not using much battery).   This can be made to happen every
>so often, or only when polled.

Universal, an early U.S. analog cellular mfg. built this sort of unit in
the early '90s.  It was an idea ahead of its time.

>> Similarly a PSTN-IP-PSTN interface for voice could give you a static
>> phone number that you could dynamically forward anywhere untraceably.
>
>	The LEAs don't like this concept, and one of the provisions of
>the CALEA wiretap stuff is providing tracing of calls forwarded so you can't
>do this....

Yhis is a great cypherpunk service.  Allow our fellows to make free local,
VoIP, calls from our PC/PSTN links.

--Steve

---------------------------------------------------------------------
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PGP mail preferred, see  	http://www.pgp.com and
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RSA fingerprint: FE90 1A95 9DEA 8D61  812E CCA9 A44A FBA9
RSA key: http://keys.pgp.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=index&search=0x55C78B0D
---------------------------------------------------------------------





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Rabid Wombat 
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 18:50:41 +0800
To: harald.fragner@idg.se
Subject: Re:
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



bork bork bork

On Mon, 14 Sep 1998 harald.fragner@idg.se wrote:

> > Why yes, yes you do.  Don't you recognize the black robe, the scythe,
> > the bony hand, the less-than-cheerful disposition?
> > 
> > See if you can figure it out.  And please hold still for a moment.  Let 
> > me just wind up here with this thing....
> 
> Ultima Online?
> 
> 
> ------------------
> Harald Fragner
> IT-avdelningen, IDG
> Tel: 08-453 60 10
> Fax: 08-453 60 05
> Email: harald.fragner@idg.se
> 
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 00:30:11 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: ANNOUNCEMENT: DC cypherpunks meeting this Saturday, Sep 19
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



There will be a cypherpunks meeting and party this Saturday, September 19
starting at 5 pm in Adams Morgan, Washington, DC.

Our two out-of-town guests are Doug McGowan from HP (who will speak about
his company's encryption products that became controversial early this
year) and David Burt of filteringfacts.org (who's here for a Christian
Coalition conference and may or may not feel like speaking about his
position on some of the anti-porn legislation likely to pass Congress).

Interested in coming? RSVP and I'll send directions.

-Declan





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: the scent of old bones and fresh blood 
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 05:25:42 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: 023026.htm
Message-ID: <199809140625.CAA00774@demona.doldrums.dyn.ml.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




                             [1]That's Racin' 
                                      
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   Posted at 12:54 a.m. PDT Sunday, September 13, 1998 
   
Net Security Takes Key Step

   BY JAMES J. MITCHELL
   Mercury News Staff Writer
   
   TriStrata Security Inc. of Redwood Shores isn't your usual Internet
   start-up. Its chief executive recently gave up the reins of a $2
   billion subsidiary to run it. The company's founder and chairman is
   the man who invented the personal identification number (PIN).
   America's largest accounting firm is already endorsing it. And its
   promise lured some of the best-connected executives onto its board.
   
   Three months ago, Paul Wahl was running German software maker SAP AG's
   U.S. operations, which has 5,000 employees and first-half 1998 sales
   of nearly $1 billion. Last week he became chief executive of
   TriStrata, a 35-person start-up that makes Internet security software.
   
   The reason for Wahl's sudden career change and move from Philadelphia
   is a tremendous opportunity . . .to make Internet history by changing
   the way the world keeps information secure on the Internet, says Wahl,
   46.
   
   That same dream brought John Atalla out of retirement in 1993 to form
   TriStrata. Atalla, now 74, decades ago created the PIN system and the
   security used today in 80 percent of the world's automatic-teller
   machines. He was enjoying the beaches of the world when friends in the
   banking industry asked him to work on the problem of Internet
   security.
   
   Both men believe TriStrata's software -- which works efficiently with
   voice and video as well as with data -- will revolutionize electronic
   commerce, enabling companies to create virtual private networks and
   permitting, for example, the secure and inexpensive sale of software,
   music and videos over the Internet.
   
   Some outside observers agree.
   
   PricewaterhouseCoopers LLP, which is the largest of the Big Five
   accounting firms and has 2,200 employees devoted to Internet security,
   believes this could be the de facto standard for encryption
   technology, says Jim Coriston, a PWC managing partner. TriStrata
   software is being implemented throughout the firm, which is also
   offering the product to its clients.
   
   It's a whole different approach to cryptography, says Larry Dietz,
   director of information security and legal strategies for Current
   Analysis, a market research firm. Its key principles make a lot of
   sense. But some critics question whether TriStrata's product is as
   secure as the company claims.
   
   And the company faces tough competition from established security
   companies such as Network Associates Inc. of Santa Clara and Secure
   Computing Corp. of San Jose, as well as from computer vendors like IBM
   and Hewlett-Packard Co., which include security in their products.
   
   Atalla rejected the traditional approach for enterprise security using
   public key encryption, a system that uses two keys, both controlled by
   the user: a private key, which must be kept secret, and a public key,
   which can be freely distributed. Such systems can be broken, have
   performance limitations and have restrictions on the strength of the
   key that can be exported.
   
   Instead, he turned to the one-time pad approach invented in 1917 by
   Gilbert Vernam. It uses randomly generated numbers that are never
   replicated in the exact same sequence. The one-time pad is
   theoretically unbreakable, cryptographers agree. But it hasn't been
   useful because it requires so much computing and telecommunications
   power.
   
   Atalla decided that the great advances in computer memory and
   processing technology and today's powerful and relatively inexpensive
   communications capability made the Vernam cipher practical, and he
   built his security system around it. As a result, each encrypted
   document has a different code.
   
   The system is so fast, so inexpensive and provides such a good audit
   trail that it will lead companies to make encrypted transmissions the
   rule instead of the exception, Atalla and Wahl say.
   
   The federal government, including the National Security Agency and the
   FBI, has cleared it for export because the system allows access to
   specific documents for which an appropriate court order has been
   issued. The company expects the product to be received warmly
   overseas, since the U.S. government cannot decode information at will.
   But it's unclear whether this feature will diminish foreign concerns
   about U.S. security products.
   
   Skeptics wonder whether the company has created a sufficiently large
   string of random numbers to approximate randomness, Dietz says.
   
   And TriStrata's approach is so different it won't be an easy sell. It
   requires companies to transform their security systems, a decision
   likely to be made by the chief executive and chief information
   officers, Dietz says, not the people who normally purchase security
   software.
   
   Here the many contacts of Atalla, Wahl and TriStrata's directors
   should prove useful.
   
   Atalla is well known in the high-tech community. At Bell Laboratories
   his research resulted in his patents for the metal oxide semiconductor
   (MOS), a key component of modern electronic devices. Then he
   co-founded Hewlett-Packard Associates and Hewlett-Packard Laboratories
   and directed the company's solid-state division. He founded Atalla
   Corp. in 1973 and sold it to Tandem Computers Inc. in 1987.
   
   Atalla was able to attract to TriStrata a star-studded board that
   includes John Young, former chief executive of HP; Tom Perkins,
   partner in the venture capital firm of Kleiner Perkins Caufield &
   Byers; and William Zuendt, retired president of Wells Fargo & Co. and
   former chairman of MasterCard.
   
   The company released its first product last November. As it prepared
   to move from R&D to large-scale sales, it added as a director David
   Beirne, a general partner of venture capital firm Benchmark Capital.
   Beirne, who had made his mark as one of the most successful executive
   recruiters before joining Benchmark last year, approached Wahl about
   the CEO job two months ago.
   
   Wahl, quite content at SAP, was negotiating a move back to Europe with
   the company when Beirne called and persuaded him to fly here to take a
   look at TriStrata. After a second quick visit, Wahl and his wife
   decided to come west.
   
   TriStrata is unlikely to become a huge employer; Wahl expects the
   workforce to perhaps double to 70 in the next year or two and reach
   200 over five years.
   
   But it's impact on the Internet could be quite dramatic. And Wahl
   found that attraction irresistible.
     _________________________________________________________________
   
   Write James J. Mitchell at the Mercury News, 750 Ridder Park Drive,
   San Jose, Calif. 95190; phone (408) 920-5544; fax (408) 920-5917; or
   e-mail to [48]JMitchell@sjmercury.com .
   
   [INLINE]
   [INLINE]
   [49]Return to top [50][ISMAP]-[51]This image allows you to access site
   resources
   
   [INLINE]
   [52]That's Racin' 
   (c)1997 - 1998 Mercury Center. The information you receive online from
   Mercury Center is protected by the copyright laws of the United
   States. The copyright laws prohibit any copying, redistributing,
   retransmitting, or repurposing of any copyright-protected material.

References

   1. http://www.mercurycenter.com/event.ng/Type=click&ProfileID=442&RunID=1618&AdID=1530&GroupID=1&FamilyID=1&TagValues=154.197.298.414&Redirect=http:%2F%2Fwww.thatsracin.com
   2. http://www.mercurycenter.com/
   3. http://www.mercurycenter.com/graphics/toolbar.map
   4. LYNXIMGMAP:http://www.mercurycenter.com/business/top/023026.htm#toolbar
   5. http://www.passport.realcities.com/osform/AuthenticateService?osform_template=/sjm/frame.oft&content=benefits.html&final_template=
   6. http://www.mercurycenter.com/front/
   7. http://www.mercurycenter.com/business/
   8. http://www.mercurycenter.com/gmsv/
   9. http://www.mercurycenter.com/sports/
  10. http://www.mercurycenter.com/opinion/
  11. http://www.mercurycenter.com/svlife/
  12. http://www.mercurycenter.com/weather/
  13. http://www.talentscout.com/
  14. http://www.homehunter.com/siliconvalley/
  15. http://enterprise.sjmercury.com/products/carhunter/
  16. http://www.justgo.com/bayarea/
  17. http://www.zip2.com/bayarea/
  18. http://classifieds.sjmercury.com/classifieds/indexnojava.html
  19. http://www.mercurycenter.com/resources/search/search_archive.shtml
  20. http://www.newshound.com/
  21. http://www.passport.realcities.com/osform/AuthenticateService?osform_template=/sjm/frame.oft&content=benefits.html&final_template=
  22. http://www.mercurycenter.com/business/
  23. http://www.mercurycenter.com/today/today_business.shtml
  24. http://www.mercurycenter.com/business/tech/
  25. http://www.mercurycenter.com/business/business_section.shtml
  26. http://www.mercurycenter.com/business/apple/
  27. http://www.mercurycenter.com/business/asia/
  28. http://www.mercurycenter.com/breaking/
  29. http://www.mercurycenter.com/compute/
  30. http://www.mercurycenter.com/business/business_getahead.shtml
  31. http://www.mercurycenter.com/gmsv/
  32. http://www.mercurycenter.com/realestate/
  33. http://www.mercurycenter.com/business/intel/
  34. http://www.mercurycenter.com/business/microsoft/
  35. http://www.mercurycenter.com/business/moneytree/
  36. http://www.mercurycenter.com/business/sv15098/150home.htm
  37. http://www.mercurycenter.com/realestate/mortgage/
  38. http://www.mercurycenter.com/stocks/motleyfool/
  39. http://www.mercurycenter.com/stocks/
  40. http://www.mercurycenter.com/talentscout/
  41. http://www.mercurycenter.com/columnists/carpluk/
  42. http://www.mercurycenter.com/columnists/gillmor/
  43. http://www.mercurycenter.com/columnists/lashinsky/
  44. http://www.mercurycenter.com/columnists/nolan/
  45. http://www.mercurycenter.com/columnists/shavers/
  46. http://www.mercurycenter.com/business/business_feedback.shtml
  47. http://www.mercurycenter.com/business/business_help.shtml
  48. mailto:JMitchell@sjmercury.com
  49. http://www.mercurycenter.com/business/top/023026.htm#backtotop
  50. http://www.mercurycenter.com/graphics/toolbar.map
  51. LYNXIMGMAP:http://www.mercurycenter.com/business/top/023026.htm#toolbar
  52. http://www.mercurycenter.com/event.ng/Type=click&ProfileID=442&RunID=1618&AdID=1530&GroupID=1&FamilyID=1&TagValues=154.197.298.414&Redirect=http:%2F%2Fwww.thatsracin.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "sixdegrees"
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 01:57:46 +0800
To: "Joe Cypherpunk"
Subject: Larry Gilbert
Message-ID: <199809140644.XAA17608@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Just a quick update from sixdegrees(tm). Unfortunately Larry 
Gilbert (irving@pobox.com) asked not to be listed as your 
contact with sixdegrees.

We also wanted to make sure you were aware that you currently 
have no other confirmed contacts, so it will be hard for you to
have a productive sixdegrees experience. As you probably know, 
without any confirmed contacts, you won't get any results from our 
networking searches. 

So, we just wanted to recommend that you head over to 
http://www.sixdegrees.com , log-in, and go to MY CONTACTS 
to list additional relationships. 


====================================================================
PLEASE NOTE: All replies to this address are processed by a computer.
If you have any problems, questions or requests send an e-mail to 
issues@sixdegrees.com and someone will get back to you as soon as 
possible.
====================================================================


E.DB.BRESP.3




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Lynne L. Harrison" 
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 02:20:04 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Clinton--Why I am Chortling
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980914032054.007d3b40@pop.mhv.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> On Sat, 12 Sep 1998, Tim May wrote:
> 
> There's also the idea popular in some gender feminist circles that the
> imbalance of power in manager-employee relationships makes it impossible
> for genuine consent to be given. Can there be any greater power imbalance
> than the president of the United States and an intern? Where are the
> feminist cries of outrage?

Could be because, at least from what I read in the report and from other
sources, Monica came onto Clinton.  One could make the argument that the
imbalance of power was the other way around ;)

On another note, instead of the report, it may be extremely more
interesting to read:
http://www.reagan.com/HotTopics.main/document-9.1.1998.1.html

I can't vouch for the veracity of all of those listed.  Of those
individuals, however, with whom I am familiar by way of the media, it is
accurate - and eerie, to say the least.





***************************************************************************
Lynne L. Harrison, Esq.         |  "If we are all here,
Poughkeepsie, New York          |   then we are not
mailto:lharrison@dueprocess.com |   all there."
http://www.dueprocess.com       |      - old Zen saying
*************************************************************************

DISCLAIMER:  I am not your attorney; you are not my client.
             Accordingly, the above is *NOT* legal advice.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "LiveUpdate News" 
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 02:57:03 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Crescendo News - September 1998
Message-ID: <039975445070e98ANNEX@annex.liveupdate.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



CRESCENDO NEWS - September 1998

Well, it's almost fall here in New England - we're looking 
forward to the foliage turning color and the snow starting to 
fall.  The leaves up North aren't the only things that are 
about to change - we're working harder than ever to deliver the 
best music products on the Internet.  You're receiving this 
email because you downloaded Crescendo in the past, and we want 
to keep you up to date with some of the exciting things that 
are happening at LiveUpdate.  We hope you are enjoying Crescendo!

These are some of the items included in this newsletter:

* Crescendo Forte Showcase is now open
* Crescendo PLUS version 4.0 Beta 2 now includes LiveSynth 
* Crescendo Forte featured on RealNetworks Music Showcase
* Crescendo Forte featured in Keyboard Magazine's "net smarts"
* Re-enabling Crescendo after installing other plugins
* Controlling Crescendo using JavaScript
* What would you like to see in future versions of Crescendo?
* Subscribing / Unsubscribing

----------------------------------

CRESCENDO FORTE SHOWCASE IS NOW OPEN

On September 10th, 1998, the long awaited Crescendo Forte 
Showcase publicly opened its doors.  Crescendo Forte is an 
add-on to RealNetworks' RealPlayer G2, and allows MIDI music 
to be synchronized with other media types such as RealAudio, 
video, animation, and text.  Rob Glaser, CEO of RealNetworks 
sums Crescendo Forte up best by saying "Crescendo Forte Rocks!".  
Crescendo Forte has been called "unbelievable", and it has been 
said to be "Music the way it was meant to be heard." See (and 
hear) for yourself what all the excitement is about 
at the Crescendo Forte Showcase, found at 
http://www.liveupdate.com/cforte/showcase.html.  

After you've heard the difference Crescendo Forte makes to 
music on the Internet, get Crescendo PLUS version 4.0 Beta 2 
for an upgrade to LiveSynth that makes the music sound even 
better!  (Keep reading for more details...)

----------------------------------

CRESCENDO PLUS VERSION 4.0 BETA 2 NOW INCLUDES LIVESYNTH

It's finally here!  Crescendo PLUS version 4.0 Beta 2 is 
now available, and includes streaming, a software wavetable 
synthesizer (for more realistic instrument sounds), and more.  
If you have purchased a Crescendo PLUS subscription within the 
past year, you should have already received an email giving 
you instructions on how to download version 4.0 Beta 2.  If 
you haven't experienced Crescendo PLUS yet, now is the time to 
do so.  LiveSynth uses the processing power of your PC to play 
MIDI music using real instrument samples.  Therefore a Pentium 
processor is required to take advantage of LiveSynth.  If you 
don't have a Pentium processor, you will still be able to take 
advantage of streaming and the other features found in Crescendo 
PLUS.  For a short time, the Crescendo PLUS subscription which 
entitles you to both the shipping 3.0 version of Crescendo and 
4.0 Beta 2 including LiveSynth is available for $19.95 at our 
on-line store, https://secure.liveupdate.com.  

----------------------------------

CRESCENDO FORTE FEATURED ON REALNETWORKS MUSIC SHOWCASE

Atlantic Records, Polygram, Capitol Records, Warner Brothers, 
Sony Music, Maverick, Virgin Records can all be found on the G2 
Music Showcase area on the RealNetworks web site.  And who should 
be featured among these titans of the music industry?  LiveUpdate, 
of course!  Visit the G2 music showcase at 
http://www.real.com/showcase/realplayer/music.html 
and hear how the combination of RealPlayer G2 and Crescendo Forte 
are redefining the way music is heard on the Internet.

----------------------------------

CRESCENDO FORTE FEATURED IN KEYBOARD MAGAZINE'S NET SMARTS

Are you hungry for more information on creating content for
Crescendo Forte?  Would you like to know what Dan Barrett, author
of "net smarts" for Keyboard Magazine has to say about Crescendo 
Forte?  Read the rave artice in the October issue of Keyboard 
magazine, where Dan Barrett says, "It's so satisfying to encounter 
a product that just plain works" and "The pre-beta version of 
Crescendo Forte installed easily on my PC and ran transparently 
inside of RealPlayer G2, keeping the audio and MIDI streams (to 
my ears) in perfect sync.  It's definitely worth a look."  Get it 
at your local newsstand, or check out Keyboard Magazine online 
at http://www.keyboardmag.com.

----------------------------------

RE-ENABLING CRESCENDO AFTER INSTALLING OTHER PLUGINS

Probably the most common question our on-line helpdesk 
(helpdesk@liveupdate.com) looks something this:

"I have been using Crescendo to play MIDI on-line for over two
years now, and I love it.  I just installed QuickTime 
to play a movie, but now when I go to a web site that has MIDI, 
Crescendo doesn't load any more.  I want my Crescendo back!"

If this looks familiar to you, we have good news - you can
have your QuickTime and Crescendo too!  Netscape decides which
plugin will be used for a given media type based on their
position on your Netscape/program/plugins directory.  If you
go to the Help/About Plugins from the Navigator window, you
will probably see "LiveUpdate Crescendo" listed, but one or
more of the MIME types listed there will most likely be listed
as disabled.  To cure this problem, we have created a page
which outlines how to re-arrange your plugins directory so
that Crescendo will be enabled for all MIDI MIME types, while
co-existing with other plugins such as QuickTime.  Surf to
http://www.liveupdate.com/atlashelp.html for more details!

----------------------------------

CONTROLLING CRESCENDO USING JAVASCRIPT

Are you a JavaScript programmer?  Would you like to see how
Crescendo can be controlled using JavaScript?  We have created
a page that demonstrates Crescendo being controlled by
JavaScript methods and standard HTML buttons.  See it in
action at http://www.liveupdate.com/wiretest.html.  To
look "under the hood," just view the page's source to see how
simple it is to control Crescendo through JavaScript.

----------------------------------

WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE IN FUTURE VERSIONS OF CRESCENDO?

We are still looking for new ideas to be included in future
versions of the Crescendo player.  If you have any cool features
you would like to see added to Crescendo, send them to 
feedback@liveupdate.com.  Who knows - maybe your suggestion will
makes its way into the next version of Crescendo!

----------------------------------

SUBSCRIBING / UNSUBSCRIBING

Note: Messages from LiveUpdate to this list will not be sent any 
more frequently than once a month, and your information has not, and 
will not, be given to others or sold.  If you wish to unsubscribe 
from this list, or if this message has been forwarded to you by a 
friend and you would like to subscribe to our newsletter, please 
send a message to newsletter@liveupdate.com.

*******************************************

Spread the Music!




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 08:34:48 +0800
To: "Lynne L. Harrison" 
Subject: Re: Clinton--Why I am Chortling
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980914032054.007d3b40@pop.mhv.net>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Careful with your attributions. I don't believe Tim wrote what you said he
did.

As for Monica-Clinton, what appears to be the case doesn't matter in some
ideologies. Can meaningful consent be given with such a power imbalance?

-Declan


On Mon, 14 Sep 1998, Lynne L. Harrison wrote:

> > On Sat, 12 Sep 1998, Tim May wrote:
> > 
> > There's also the idea popular in some gender feminist circles that the
> > imbalance of power in manager-employee relationships makes it impossible
> > for genuine consent to be given. Can there be any greater power imbalance
> > than the president of the United States and an intern? Where are the
> > feminist cries of outrage?
> 
> Could be because, at least from what I read in the report and from other
> sources, Monica came onto Clinton.  One could make the argument that the
> imbalance of power was the other way around ;)
> 
> On another note, instead of the report, it may be extremely more
> interesting to read:
> http://www.reagan.com/HotTopics.main/document-9.1.1998.1.html
> 
> I can't vouch for the veracity of all of those listed.  Of those
> individuals, however, with whom I am familiar by way of the media, it is
> accurate - and eerie, to say the least.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ***************************************************************************
> Lynne L. Harrison, Esq.         |  "If we are all here,
> Poughkeepsie, New York          |   then we are not
> mailto:lharrison@dueprocess.com |   all there."
> http://www.dueprocess.com       |      - old Zen saying
> *************************************************************************
> 
> DISCLAIMER:  I am not your attorney; you are not my client.
>              Accordingly, the above is *NOT* legal advice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 09:30:36 +0800
To: "Lynne L. Harrison" 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 12:20 AM -0700 9/14/98, Lynne L. Harrison wrote:
>> On Sat, 12 Sep 1998, Tim May wrote:
>>
>> There's also the idea popular in some gender feminist circles that the
>> imbalance of power in manager-employee relationships makes it impossible
>> for genuine consent to be given. Can there be any greater power imbalance
>> than the president of the United States and an intern? Where are the
>> feminist cries of outrage?
>

Just to be clear, I didn't write any of the above that was attributed to
me. Declan wrote it.

I don't even know what a "gender feminist" is.  Some kind of typical
feminazi or feminista screwball, I assume.

--Tim May

(This space left blank pending determ. of acceptability to the gov't.)
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Soren 
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 06:50:28 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: MISTY encryption algorithm source code
In-Reply-To: <19980913230004.14914.qmail@nym.alias.net>
Message-ID: <35FD02A6.6473F7D0@workmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

 

lcs Mixmaster Remailer wrote:
Nobuki Nakatuji wrote:

> MISTY source code posted by me at long ago had many mistake.
> Attachment file are revised MISTY source code and revised readme.
> Thanks.
>
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

BRAIN used by you always since at long ago have many insect. Attachment
brain not here because was exhausted in decypher you message. You go
back
at Hotmail now and stop spam Cypherpunks list. Chop chop.
And of course we know that this list should be the exclusive province of
white-boys-who-speak-american-english.  Give us all a laugh, and attempt
saying that in Japanese.  BTW, get the culture for your cultural slurs
correct.  The etymology of chop chop is Shanghai, late 19th century. 
A chop is an engraved ideogram representing a non-forgeable signature -
sort of a smartcard.  Hence chop chop, translates as "sign on the
dotted line and get on with the deal". Taking this a little further, chopsticks
are so-called because they usually bear the 'chop' of the eating house
from whence you stole them.  Needless to say, the chinese don't call
them that. This is akin to messages to you, being in spanish because your
neighbors to the south speak it.  I suspect Nakatuji-san is entirely
'misty'fied by your random cultural references. Unless you haven't realized,
the internet actually exists outside of the Union of Shortsighted Assholes. 
Perhaps you'd be happier returning to your nakama on Assholes On-Line?  
Here's a self-study course,
on asian anatomical and cultural differences, for your perusal.

"Educate, don't agitate"
 


From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 07:28:12 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: McDougal denied medical aid prior to death [CNN] (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809141249.HAA24512@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:
>From ravage@ssz.com Mon Sep 14 07:49:25 1998
From: Jim Choate 
Message-Id: <199809141249.HAA24500@einstein.ssz.com>
Subject: McDougal denied medical aid prior to death [CNN]
To: users@ssz.com (SSZ User Mail List)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 07:49:23 -0500 (CDT)
Cc: friends@ssz.com (Ravage's Friends)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23]
Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 2034      


Forwarded message:

> X-within-URL: http://www.cnn.com/US/9809/14/mcdougal.report.ap/

>    McDougal September 14, 1998
>    Web posted at: 2:21 a.m. EDT (0621 GMT)
>    
>    FORT WORTH, Texas (AP) -- Whitewater witness James McDougal did not
>    have access to his heart medication in the hours before he died in
>    prison, a federal government report revealed.
>    
>    McDougal, a former business partner of President Clinton who later
>    agreed to testify for Independent Counsel Ken Starr, also was not seen
>    by a doctor although he complained of feeling ill the day before his
>    death, according to a report obtained by the Fort Worth Star-Telegram
>    under the Freedom of Information Act.
>    
>    McDougal was moved from his regular cell to solitary confinement at
>    the Federal Medical Center prison in Fort Worth a day before his death
>    as punishment for failing to provide a urine sample for a drug test.
>    
>    McDougal had complained of being unable to provide urine for drug
>    tests because of the medications he took for a variety of ailments.
>    
>    During the move, guards did not find McDougal's heart medication
>    because they did not want to search McDougal's regular cell and
>    disturb his sleeping cell mate, the report said.
>    
>    One of the medicines, nitroglycerin, could have bought McDougal some
>    time after he suffered a heart attack, a prison official who asked not
>    to be identified said in the Sunday paper.

[text deleted]


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 11:05:35 +0800
To: raymond@fbn.bc.ca
Subject: Re: Clinton's fake apologies
In-Reply-To: <199809120319.UAA20709@leroy.fbn.bc.ca>
Message-ID: <35FD3C1F.514C@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>If the game looks too rough who do you blame?
>
Nice point. 

> I see the whole OIC crusade against Clinton as an attempt to bring
> honesty to government.  Ken Starr is just playing the game by the
> rules set out be the Clintons.  
>
But I guess I can't quite buy into it because I see no first order
differences between the Republocrats and the Demicans. The whole thing
looks to me like a redefinition of the rules of engagement in the same
old power struggle. Hardly Control vs. Kaos.

Mike




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "X" 
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 10:28:16 +0800
To: "Petro" 
Subject: RE: Clinton's fake apologies
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <000101bddff3$d5e14840$9f2580d0@ibm>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



What chance is there that the Paula Jones case was dismissed BECAUSE Wild
Bill lied under oath?

Remember OJ?

X

-----Original Message-----
From:	owner-cypherpunks@minder.net [mailto:owner-cypherpunks@minder.net] On
Behalf Of Petro
Sent:	Monday, September 14, 1998 9:03 AM
To:	Jim Gillogly; declan@well.com
Cc:	cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject:	Re: Clinton's fake apologies

At 10:49 AM -0500 9/12/98, Jim Gillogly wrote:
>IANAL (feel free to weigh in here, Unicorn), but I heard on one show or
>another that lying under oath is perjury only if it's material to the
>suit.  Since the Jones case was dismissed, it was argued that even if he
>lied then, it wasn't material and thus wasn't perjury -- they claimed that
>nobody had every been convicted of perjury for lying in a case that was
>dismissed.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 10:15:15 +0800
To: declan@well.com
Subject: Re: Clinton's fake apologies
In-Reply-To: <199809121549.IAA28683@zendia.mentat.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 10:49 AM -0500 9/12/98, Jim Gillogly wrote:
>Declan wrote:
>> On Fri, 11 Sep 1998, Jim Gillogly wrote:
>> >
>> > If they  decide this is now a requirement for high office, I'd like
>> > to see all the Congresscritters who've had sex out of wedlock and
>> > concealed it take one step forward.  Shall we make hypocrisy in high
>> > office impeachable also?
>>
>> A better question is: If Clinton is guilty of perjury and other felonies,
>> should he be impeached?
>
>IANAL (feel free to weigh in here, Unicorn), but I heard on one show or
>another that lying under oath is perjury only if it's material to the
>suit.  Since the Jones case was dismissed, it was argued that even if he
>lied then, it wasn't material and thus wasn't perjury -- they claimed that
>nobody had every been convicted of perjury for lying in a case that was
>dismissed.  Of course he's saying he didn't even lie: like Kinky Friedman

	Whether anyone was convicted or not, he still LIED UNDER OATH
(Allegedly, allegedly allegedly). It doesn't matter whether the case was
dismissed or not.

>In any case, despite these legalisms, I'm not convinced that perjury in
>any case should be considered treason or high crimes and misdemeanors.

	He VIOLATED HIS OATH OF OFFICE.

>The Founding Fathers could have been more specific about what was
>impeachable, and they chose not to be, leaving it intentionally ambiguous.
>
>Despite those arguments, this stuff really isn't about perjury: it's about
>the Republicans' case of nixon envy... Clinton's peccadillos are a far cry
>from Watergate (or Teapot Dome or Iran-Contra), but it's the best chance
>they've had since the Crook was dumped.

	Yeah, Nixon only worked to conceal the actions of others,
attempting to protect himself, and the people who worked for him. He did
this concerning a crime he did not know was going to be committed.

	Clinton on the other hand LIED UNDER OATH about something HE DID,
lied to PROTECT HIMSELF, and ONLY HIMSELF. At least Nixon worried about
more than his historical legacy, and his wee-willy.

>> If you don't think about lying about sex and related issues under oath
>> should be a crime, well, then change the law. But right now any form of
>> lying under oath is perjury, whether you like it or not.
>If he did commit perjury, would that be an impeachable offense?  I claim
>it's up to the House to interpret just what constitutes high crimes and
>misdemeanors, since it isn't spelled out in the Constitution.
>
>Disclaimer -- I'm not a Democrat, and I'm annoyed with Clinton's behavior
>on crypto issues.  If I appear to be defending him, it's inadvertant -- I
>just feel he should be attacked on material points rather than whatever
>sleazy stuff Starr has found under his rocks.

	As it's been said before, if he'll lie UNDER OATH about this, what
about other things?

--
petro@playboy.com----for work related issues. I don't speak for Playboy.
petro@bounty.org-----for everthing else.      They wouldn't like that.
                                              They REALLY
Economic speech IS political speech.          wouldn't like that.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 12:16:19 +0800
To: "Lynne L. Harrison" 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 9:24 AM -0700 9/14/98, Lynne L. Harrison wrote:

>I don't see a power imbalance here.  If a young woman in her 20's
>invitingly flashes her thong panties at a man, I don't see how she can be
>portrayed as the victim.  The only way that the issue of power arises is
>that Monica was not overwhelmed by someone in power - she was attracted to
>the power.

I agree, in principle. But, then, I think _most_ so-called sexual
harassment cases are based on an inappropriate use of state power to
intervene in birds and the bees issues.

Of course, the Lewinsky stuff surfaced as a result of a civil action filed
by Paula Jones, claiming Clinton dropped his pants in front of her, invited
her to do things to him, etc., etc., blah blah. Did Jones invite this? Was
she attracted to power? Who knows? This is what the trial was presumably
about. And Clinton lied about the Lewinsky matter, and probably has lied
about a great many other matters.

(IANAL, as a few of you are, but I assumed the Lewinsky stuff was coming in
to support allegations of a pattern of such behaviors. If Jones alone had
made the case, it might have been a "she said, he said" case, but when
strikingly parallel behavior turns up with several other women....)

And did Kathleen Willey invite Clinton to rub up against her and suggest an
afternoon quickie in his office? She claimed on "60 Minutes" not to have
invited his behavior.

I'm as bothered as the next person that a taxpayer-funded prosecutor is
asking questions about sex lives. However, this is what comes of having
"sexual harassment" laws, with "if she said it happened, it _happened_"
standards of proof.

Like I said, I'm chortling. What goes around, come around.

And I'm happy that lying sack of shit of a President may escape being
removed from office. Having him around is a useful reminder, the next best
thing to the useful policy of letting a corpse hang from the gallows for a
couple of months.

--Tim May



(This space left blank pending determ. of acceptability to the gov't.)
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 12:48:09 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: 023026.htm
In-Reply-To: <199809140625.CAA00774@demona.doldrums.dyn.ml.org>
Message-ID: <35FD539C.75BD@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>    FBI, has cleared it for export because the system allows access to
>    specific documents for which an appropriate court order has been
>    issued. The company expects the product to be received warmly
>    overseas, since the U.S. government cannot decode information at 
>    will.
Pardon me if I'm a bit slow here but isn't this just a less
space-efficient form of key escrow? Shouldn't you keep the pad secret
and then trash it after use? 

And if a pad is distributed using a traditional encryption system isn't
the security of the "OTP" then the same as the method used to send it? 
Don't you need secret agents handcuffed to briefcases to distribute real
OTPs?

Mike




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 12:38:36 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: "If a woman says it happened, it _happened_"
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




...unless of course that woman is not politically correct.


At 8:24 AM -0700 9/14/98, X wrote:
>What chance is there that the Paula Jones case was dismissed BECAUSE Wild
>Bill lied under oath?
>
>Remember OJ?
>

You mean you think if Clinton had told the truth when he raised his hand
and swore to tell the truth it might have made a difference?

"Well, huh, like, I used to bring these young thangs in, invite them in to
meet the Governor, and then give them a chance to look at General Lee as he
stands up to attention. Ya know, this was why I ran for Governor, to get
some of that government-approved nookie. And when I moved up to
Washtington, whoooo-wheeeeeeee! Let's see, I "interviewed" Kathleen Willey
for that intern job, the same day her husband offed himself, so, like, she
wouldn't put out. But I told her my fly was alway open for her. And then
there was that little intern with the beret...don't quite recollect her
name. Mona, I think, and boy did she ever moan..."

Think the truth might have made Paula Jones' tale of Clinton dropping trou
on her just a little more plausible?

Apparently most Americans now believe her, and they didn't before. The last
8 months has established a clear-cut pattern.

But, as I said, having Clinton hanging around is good for the process of
disgracing our government officials. Think of how many world leaders will
burst into laughter, or disgust, when he offers them a cigar?

And it will make it awfully tough for the next round of feministas
screaming that some CEO must go because he had a fling with his secretary.
And maybe Mitsubishi of America will cancel the multimillion dollar
settlement reached with a bunch of women who claimed to have been offended
by the sexist jokes of Mitsubishi's Japanese managers. If Clinton can get
blowjobs from his underlings, and use government money to set up
assignations and to run cover for him, where's the fun in zapping Japanese
execs for making hooters jokes?

Kind of reminds me of the disconnect between one batch of lesbos screaming
that a male only college must be opened to all womyn while another batch of
bald-headed dykes in Calfornia screams that Mills College must remain a
wimmin-only haven for sistas and queers. Some of these baldies chained
themselves to the gates...hey, why weren't they just left chained up? The
shriveled corpses might have served as a reminder to others.

--Tim May

(This space left blank pending determ. of acceptability to the gov't.)
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill.stewart@pobox.com
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 13:54:12 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: [NYT] FCC Extends CALEA Deadline
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980914104107.0089f220@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>From the New Yawk Times, probably Friday or Saturday:
WIRETAP DELAYED - [New York Times, C14.] In a setback for the F.B.I., 
the Federal Communications Commission has given the telecommunications 
industry an additional 20 months to comply with a 
Federal law meant to bring law-enforcement surveillance into the
digital age. But in extending the deadline the commission deferred 
action on some of the most disputed facets of the issue, which has pitted
law-enforcement officials against telephone-equipment manufacturers, 
network-service providers and privacy-rights advocates. 
The Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act was intended to 
address complaints by the F.B.I. and local law-enforcement agencies
that were rapidly losing their ability to conduct wiretaps and other 
forms of electronic surveillance in the face of modern digital and 
wireless communications networks. But industry groups had long warned 
that they would be unable to meet the approaching deadline for complying
with the law by installing the software and hardware that would allow 
for court-authorized surveillance on modern networks. 
The F.C.C. extended the deadline to June 30, 2000. 
"This ruling is really a prelude to the privacy fight," said James X. Dempsey, 
a telecommunications expert. "For now the commission has given itself 
and the industry some breathing room. They've said, 
'Don't rush into these additional surveillance areas.'" 
The decision came in response to a request for a deadline extension 
that was filed in March in a joint petition by AT&T
Wireless Services, Lucent Technologies and Ericsson. 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 12:54:34 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re:
In-Reply-To: <199809131855.UAA18056@replay.com>
Message-ID: <35FD554C.7E00@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Anonymous wrote:
> 
> How about a line-of-sight (LOS) infrared network, a neighbor-net?
> ...
> They'd probably want to regulate the
> traffic over a taut string, between paper cups.
>
I think we should add separate keys to drivers licenses that authorize
one to purchase plumbing components, red meat, optical components,
electronics devices, ammo, porno...just add it to a 2D barcode. It would
not be any inconvenience at all.

It looks like to get any significant distance you would want substantial
power. Then a possible downfall would be "unsafe use of a laser." I
think this is what was used some years back when people started playing
around with laser eavesdropping devices. It makes no difference whether
or not the power levels or use are actually dangerous: in the minds of
most :

#define LASER \
( Spectre + evil_conspiracy + guys_in_labcoats + flash_fried )

Call lots of optics guys who would show how misalignment could cause
stray reflections, eye specialists to talk about retinas etc...still a
good idea for *local* neighborhood. Have you got any specific info on
what is already commercially available? 

BTW - It would probably be easy to map one of these nets using an
appropriate imaging device because there would be a number of sources of
stray light. Turn on the right camera and the spiderweb shows up. I see
a plane going overhead at night, a little upwind, dispersing a fine,
*harmless* dust, storing away a few frames of data as the dust drifts
across the landscape...

You could easily cut a coax into the turf bewteen two houses. The
hardest thing to track or shut down would be a distributed system that
had some unpredictable bridges in it. Build a FrankenNet - sewn together
from all sorts of obscure pieces. 

Mike




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill.stewart@pobox.com
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 06:46:27 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: [NYT] Bell-South charging access fees for phone-over-Internet
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980914104601.008b0a10@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



INTERNET FEES CHARGED - [New York Times, C5.] Ever since
April, when the Federal Communications Commission reported
to Congress that telephone calls made from one phone to
another using the Internet could become subject to network
access fees, the industry has been waiting for a test case.
BellSouth has now provided the test. The company has written
to a half-dozen Internet service providers in its region saying
that in November, BellSouth will start levying access fees for
voice conversations the Internet companies transmit. The fees
are the same sort that local phone companies like BellSouth
charge to AT&T and MCI for connecting calls to the local
network. Internet traffic has never been subject to such fees. But
the Internet telephony companies are not ready to give in. In
some ways, BellSouth's move may be largely symbolic, since
most Internet voice traffic so far involves attempts to avoid the
high charges for international long-distance calls, in which local
access fees are a relatively minor part of the price. And yet,
BellSouth is trying to close what many in the telephone industry
have seen as a loophole in networking pricing regulations. 
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: HyperReal-Anon 
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 06:23:58 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Remailers
Message-ID: <3472f166e843de1880a781de2ecd3050@anonymous>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On  nnburk  wrote:

>Are _any_ of the remailers working?

Take a look at the remailer stats.

http://anon.efga.org/~rlist/rlist.html
http://anon.efga.org/~rlist/mlist.html

Kinda obvious really huh?


 -+DiGiTaL+-


Greets to AOHell 3l33T HaCkerz - the badest dudes ever!
 (yeah, they probably have root on your machine now!)








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ray Arachelian 
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 10:59:32 +0800
To: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Subject: Re: IP: Impeachment Petition -- NOT!
In-Reply-To: <199809140329.UAA27182@netcom13.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <35FD3C3C.EC8102E6@brainlink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



So much for this being a working thing:

Anyone else get a bounce?

Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 11:20:14 -0400
From: System Administrator 
To: sunder@sundernet.com
Subject: Undeliverable: Impeach Clinton Now!


Your message did not reach some or all of the intended recipients.

      To:       tmanton@mail.house.gov
      Subject:  Impeach Clinton Now!
      Sent:     9/14/98 11:20:14 AM

The following recipient(s) could not be reached:

      tmanton@mail.house.gov on 9/14/98 11:20:14 AM
            Recipient Not Found
            MSEXCH:IMC:U.S. House of Representatives:U.S. House:MSG05



Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote:
> 
> From: vols-fan@juno.com (Football Fan)
> Subject: IP: Impeachment Petition
> Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 22:59:15 -0500
> To: baldmccoy@prodigy.net, PiercedEar@juno.com, TTMCCOY@juno.com, psm127_dad@mailcity.com, phmitch@mindspring.com, stringtickler@hotmail.com, Jimjean5013@juno.com, laney@arkansas.net, JESSICA.HARDAGE@charleston.af.mil, teyze-barbi@juno.com, rjohnson@bstream.com, iarthuriarthur@juno.com, w-t-14@juno.com, Bripowell@nidlink.com, supertrician@juno.com, barsotti@bstream.com
> 
> http://congress.nw.dc.us/impeach/petition.html
> 
> **********************************************
> To subscribe or unsubscribe, email:
>      majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com
> with the message:
>      (un)subscribe ignition-point email@address
> **********************************************
> www.telepath.com/believer
> **********************************************

-- 

=====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos==============
.+.^.+.|  Ray Arachelian    |Prying open my 3rd eye.  So good to see |./|\.
..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were      |/\|/\
<--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run  |\/|\/
../|\..| "A toast to Odin,  |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/.
.+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were....            |.....
======================= http://www.sundernet.com ==========================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 02:07:01 +0800
To: Martin Minow 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980914115857.008a9820@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 11:55 AM 9/11/98 -0700, Martin Minow wrote:
>>From Jim Burns:
>>Is there any effort underway to mirror the report to various
>>archives?  This is going to kill the DC internet corridor
>>otherwise.
>>
>What I heard on the radio this morning was that the house
>will press CD's that will be distributed to mirror servers
>(presumably the major Internet news providers.)

Sigh.  These folks don't understand the web technology
(though I suppose sneakernetting CDs to Washington press corps
may actually be the fastest way for some things,
but the press corps and the press companies' webmasters
aren't the same folks.)
It'd be simpler for them to distribute the report,
and similar high-popularity information in the future,
using electronic distribution to the various press agencies
and other high-volume web sites, as long as they
coordinate it well.  It might also make sense for them to have a
"press-only" subnet for insiders and major caching proxy servers to get 
distributions from.

>Now, the real interesting question: will the files be
>PGP-signed?

What?  And make it hard to change them later?  :-)



				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Lynne L. Harrison" 
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 11:22:48 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Clinton--Why I am Chortling
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980914032054.007d3b40@pop.mhv.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980914122452.0086a750@pop.mhv.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 06:32 AM 9/14/98 -0700, Declan McCullagh wrote:
>Careful with your attributions. I don't believe Tim wrote what you said he
>did.

And at 07:31 AM 9/14/98 -0700, Tim May wrote:
>Just to be clear, I didn't write any of the above that was attributed to
>me. Declan wrote it.
>I don't even know what a "gender feminist" is.  Some kind of typical
>feminazi or feminista screwball, I assume.

My mistake.  Sometimes when you're reading a post that's been re-quoted
several times, it gets confusing as to who posted what.

>As for Monica-Clinton, what appears to be the case doesn't matter in some
>ideologies. Can meaningful consent be given with such a power imbalance?
>-Declan

I don't see a power imbalance here.  If a young woman in her 20's
invitingly flashes her thong panties at a man, I don't see how she can be
portrayed as the victim.  The only way that the issue of power arises is
that Monica was not overwhelmed by someone in power - she was attracted to
the power.

On another but connected note, explain why Monica saved that dress!  I
found this little tidbit to be the "yuck" factor...



***********************************************************
Lynne L. Harrison, Esq.           |    "The key to life:
Poughkeepsie, New York            |     - Get up;
mailto:lharrison@dueprocess.com   |     - Survive;
http://www.dueprocess.com         |     - Go to bed."
***********************************************************

DISCLAIMER:  I am not your attorney; you are not my client.
             Accordingly, the above is *NOT* legal advice.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 12:12:15 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: All Fall Down...
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Delivered-To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
X-Sender: believer@telepath.com
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 09:40:16 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com
From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Whitewater Probe Continues
Mime-Version: 1.0
Sender: owner-ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
Precedence: list
Reply-To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  Washington Times
http://www.WashTimes.com/news/news2.html#link

Starr continues Whitewater investigation

 By Jerry Seper
 THE WASHINGTON TIMES

Kenneth W. Starr's case for impeaching President Clinton
 is only the first public accounting in a massive ongoing
 investigation --contrary to White House claims that the
 Whitewater probe is dead.

"All phases of the investigation are now nearing
 completion," the 445-page report says.

The independent counsel "will soon make final decisions
 about what steps to take, if any, with respect to the other
 information it has gathered."

While it was Mr. Starr's "strong desire" to complete the
 entire Whitewater inquiry before giving any information to
 Congress, the report said, it "became apparent" there was
 "substantial and credible information" of impeachable offenses
 and he was required under the law to refer the information to
 Congress as soon as possible.

"It also became apparent that a delay of this referral until the
 evidence from all phases of the investigation had been
 evaluated would be unwise," the report said.

Mr. Starr will soon make decisions on final reports to a
 three-judge panel of the U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals for the
 D.C. Circuit and possible indictments, the report added.

Mr. Clinton's personal attorney, David E. Kendall, attacked
 the Monica Lewinsky report this week as a
 "hit-and-run smear campaign," saying it was nothing but an
 attempt to damage the president with "irrelevant and
 unnecessary graphic and salacious allegations." He asked,
 "Where's Whitewater?"

But the report's introduction notes that Mr. Starr's four-year
 Whitewater probe, all but forgotten in the crush of sordid
 public revelations of Mr. Clinton's sexual dalliances with the
 former White House intern, continues to target a number of
 areas:

Legal representation of a failed Arkansas thrift, Madison
Guaranty Savings and Loan Association, and a real
estate project, Castle Grande, by first lady Hillary
Rodham Clinton and former Rose Law Firm partner
Webster L. Hubbell, the ex-associate attorney general
who resigned in disgrace.

The firing of seven White House travel office employees
to make room for Clinton cronies, and the role Mrs.
Clinton may have played in the decision.

The delivery to the White House of more than 1,000
secret FBI files on Reagan and Bush administration
aides, and efforts to shield White House officials,
including Mrs. Clinton, from a public accounting on how
the files were obtained and used.

The misuse of personnel records of Pentagon employee
Linda R. Tripp, whose secret recordings of
conversations with Miss Lewinsky began the grand jury
investigation.

Possible perjury and obstruction of justice concerning an
incident involving former White House volunteer
Kathleen E. Willey. Mrs. Willey said in August 1997
that Mr. Clinton made sexual advances in the Oval
Office in November 1993.

The Starr report to Congress said Miss Lewinsky told the
 president Newsweek was working on an article about Mrs.
 Willey. Mr. Clinton dismissed the accusations as "ludicrous,
 because he would never approach a small-breasted woman
 like Mrs. Willey." Later he asked Miss Lewinsky if she had
 heard about the Newsweek inquiry from Mrs. Tripp, to which
 she replied "yes."

The former intern said Mr. Clinton asked if Mrs. Tripp
 could be trusted and then told her to persuade Mrs. Tripp to
 call White House Deputy Counsel Bruce R. Lindsey about the
 matter. Newsweek published the Willey story on Aug. 11,
 1997. In his Jan. 17 deposition in the Paula Jones case, Mr.
 Clinton denied the Willey accusation.

The Starr probe also is looking into accusations that efforts
 were made to silence Mrs. Willey. Among those drawing
 attention is Democratic fund-raiser Nathan Landow.
 Investigators want to know if he urged Mrs. Willey to deny she
 was groped by the president. Mrs. Willey has since testified
 before the Lewinsky grand jury as a cooperating witness.

Mr. Landow testified before the grand jury, later telling
 reporters he took the Fifth Amendment. His daughter, former
 White House volunteer Harolyn Cardozo, who worked with
 Mrs. Willey, also testified.

In "Travelgate" and "Filegate," papers filed earlier this month
 in federal court in Washington show the investigations "are
 continuing and in extremely sensitive stages." Deputy
 independent counsel Robert Bittman told the court the probes
 had reached to the "highest level of the federal government"
 and involved "issues of singular constitutional and historic
 importance."

The Whitewater probe also is examining whether Mr.
 Hubbell hid his involvement and that of Mrs. Clinton with
 Castle Grande, a real estate project south of Little Rock, Ark.

In September 1996, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp.
 said Mrs. Clinton and Mr. Hubbell drafted legal papers that
 Madison used to deceive bank examiners and divert $300,000
 to Mr. Hubbell's father-in-law, Seth Ward. The report said the
 papers "facilitated the payment of substantial commissions to
 Mr. Ward, who acted as a straw buyer" in Castle Grande. A
 straw buyer is one who owns property in name only, having
 never put up any money or assumed any risk.

The FDIC said the Ward payments were in violation of
 federal regulations. The report did not accuse Mrs. Clinton or
 Mr. Hubbell of criminal wrongdoing, although it raised serious
 questions about their involvement in a deal that ultimately cost
 taxpayers $3.8 million when Castle Grande failed.

Prosecutors, the report to Congress said, immediately
 recognized parallels between the job help provided to Miss
 Lewinsky by Washington lawyer Vernon E. Jordan Jr., a
 longtime Clinton friend, and "his earlier relationship" with Mr.
 Hubbell, sentenced in 1994 to prison for stealing $420,000
 from his Rose Law Firm partners. By late 1997, Mr. Starr had
 evidence Mr. Jordan helped Mr. Hubbell obtain consulting
 contracts after he agreed to cooperate in the Whitewater
 probe.

In 1994, Mr. Hubbell was paid $450,010 by 17 different
 persons or entities as a consultant and $91,750 in 1995,
 despite beginning a 28-month prison term in August of that
 year. He has yet to explain what work he did for the cash.

Some of the payments came from MacAndrews & Forbes
 Holding Co. in New York after he was introduced to the firm's
 executives by Mr. Jordan, a director of Revlon Inc. The
 cosmetics firm, controlled by MacAndrews & Forbes, also
 offered a job to Miss Lewinsky based on Mr. Jordan's
 recommendations.

With regard to Mrs. Tripp's personnel records, Mr. Starr
 has been investigating if they were illegally released in an effort
 to tarnish her reputation in the Lewinsky probe. Assistant
 Defense Secretary Kenneth Bacon approved the release to a
 reporter for the New Yorker magazine. The records show
 Mrs. Tripp was detained by police as a teen-ager 29 years ago
 and had not noted the arrest in her 1987 security clearance
 form.

The arrest later was shown to have been a teen-age prank,
 in which she pleaded guilty to a reduced charge of loitering.

Former White House Deputy Chief of Staff Harold Ickes
 was questioned about the documents by the grand jury. Mr.
 Bacon also testified in the case.

 In our Investigative Section, a history of the Whitewater
 investigation.

Copyright (c) 1998 News World Communications, Inc.
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




**********************************************
To subscribe or unsubscribe, email:
     majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com
with the message:
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**********************************************
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**********************************************

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 12:15:48 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Digital Wiretap Delayed
Message-ID: <199809141717.NAA24367@camel14.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



We offer John Markoff's report today on the FCC decision to 
delay implementation of the FBI's digital wiretap requirements
under CALEA, along with the text of the decision:

   http://jya.com/calea-delay.htm  (93K)

The decision has a good review of the technical issues,
and explains why telco appeals of the requirements justified the 
postponement.

CTIA posted here a notice of this on Friday.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 15:57:08 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Deadly Spice or Seventh Seal?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 1:08 PM -0700 9/14/98, harald.fragner@idg.se wrote:
>> Why yes, yes you do.  Don't you recognize the black robe, the scythe,
>> the bony hand, the less-than-cheerful disposition?
>>
>> See if you can figure it out.  And please hold still for a moment.  Let
>> me just wind up here with this thing....
>
>Ultima Online?
>

No, but here are some other choices:

#1: The long lost Power Ranger.

#2: The latest member of the Spice Girls, "Deadly Spice."

#3: The character played by your own countryman in a famouns Ingmar Bergman
film.

All the hints you'll get today.

--Tim May

(This space left blank pending determ. of acceptability to the gov't.)
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Nobody 
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 15:00:02 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Dallas Gold & Silver Exchange Registration
Message-ID: <199809141958.OAA04229@usbullionexchange.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



this is your account information for the dallas gold and silver exchange

please save this message and put it in a safe place.

user name: cypherpunks
password:  5t9vd7

expires:   Wed Oct 14 14:58:25 1998

Thank you for requesting your 30 day free trial online metals spot trading
from Dallas Gold and Silver. You may use your account as often as you wish
for 30 days. You may want to activate your account by calling 1-800-527-5307
and registering for only  per month.  

Your username is: cypherpunksYour temporary account password is: 5t9vd7


If you have any problems entering your password be sure to look for alpha-numerical similarities ie: the letter O and the number 0, the letter l and the number 1 etc.... Please try these combinations before contacting us for technical support. Thank You.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 16:53:35 +0800
To: jd@metriguard.com
Subject: emission test, Black and White Test of Cryptographic Algorithms, & settlement
Message-ID: <35FD8CF1.4532@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Monday 9/14/98 2:33 PM

Don

When I drove back from Pullman in about 9/96 I realized the valve seals
were
leaking in my VW Rabbit. Blue smoke coming out the exhaust pipe. 

Passing the low speed carbon monoxide test is the hardest.

On 09/06/96 the emission test showed

	Standard	Current Reading	Result
	1.20		2.88		FAIL	

You showed me your tool to change seals.  But I needed to work on other
projects.

After spending about $400 to get the seals replaced, I got another
test on 09/10/96

        Standard	Current Reading	Result
	1.20		1.31		FAIL	

In DESPERATION I used Berryman's B-12, changed oil, etc and
REMOVED THE AIR FILTER for the test on 09/11/96

	Standard	Current Reading	Result
	1.20		1.19		PASS

Talk about squeaking by!

If your vehicle continues to FAIL emissions test, your life will be made
extremely
disrupted by the VEHICLE POLLUTION MANAGEMENT DIVISION.

The Rabbit had its 1998 emission test due in September 1998.  

I was totally prepared for failure.

I ordered about $500 in parts from JC Whitney in preparation for a
DISRUPTIVE
engine rebuild.

And, of course, I ordered for the fun of it the NAFTA [Mexico] exhaust
headers.

I could not wait to see the effect of exhaust headers on performance, so
I installed
them immediately.  WOW!  I estimate about a 20-30% performance
improvement.
Rpms up the ying-yang.

Patty kept putting the 1998 emissions notice on my dinner plate.

On Saturday I took a FAST ride to Oro Guay peak and hiked.  I took a
FAST 
return trip.

I drove into EXPRESS EMISSION operated by Dung Nguyen.  I wanted to see
how badly my grey rabbit, R2, would fail.

R2 is how the grey rabbit is denoted in my repair log.

I couldn't stand to personally watch R2 fail, so I went outside while it
was tested.

On my return the two operators were smiling both and had their thumbs
pointed up!

R2 PASSED!!!!

	Standard	Current Reading	Result
	1.20		00.13		PASS

!Viva NAFTA exhaust headers!

ANOTHER disruption out of the way so that I can concentrate on
completing the digital FX!

My HUGE FEAR what that I would have to spend time getting R2 into shape
to POSSIBLY
PASS the emissions test.  TRYING to get a car which failed the emissions
test is a nightmare!

Sandia colleague Ron Pate had to have a rebuilt engine installed in his
bronco so that it would pass.

  Black and White Test of Cryptographic Algorithms, by William H. Payne

advertised at 

  http://www.aci.net/kalliste/ /

and presented at

  http://zolatimes.com

will hopefully AID in getting my other distraction settled.  

Then, too, of course, are the JUSTIFIABLY upset MUSLIMS who are reading
my zolatimes article.

Sandia president C. Paul Robinson observed at 
http://www.jya.com/its-us.htm wrote

  A quick walk around the globe: other emerging threat nations ...

  What is perhaps most frightening is the apparent increase in the flow
of technology, hardware, and a "barter system" in dangerous materials.  
We must understand "What are their motives?"

Simple, in one case.  Settlement.  

WE WANT OUR MONEY!  This is on Internet at http://www.jya.com/crypto.htm

  DoE: Pay Bill Payne  

Thought about you guys at the fun Metriguard Monday corporate lunch.

The Acer scsi Scan Prisa I ordered just arrived by UPS.

Now I can scan in my schematics.  And bash the Great Satan EVEN HARDER.

But let's all hope for settlement before matters get WORSE.

Later
bill





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mok-Kong Shen 
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 09:35:21 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: IP: [Fwd: new threat to privacy]
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <35FD2950.98C77B4D@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Robert Hettinga wrote:
> 

> Investigators need only know your e-mail address to secretly
> install the program. Once they do, investigators can read your
> documents, view your images, download your files and intercept
> your encryption keys. DIRT was developed to assist law
> enforcement in pedophilia investigations, but future uses could
> include drug investigations, money laundering cases and
> information warfare.

Does downloading of files includes files without public read permit?




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: webmaster@acm.org
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 16:35:21 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: ACM Account Verification Code
Message-ID: <905808372.AA10188@acm.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Dear Joe Cypherpunks:

Thank you for establishing an ACM account.  To complete
the process, you must return to Step 3 and verify your account.
You will find your account verification code listed at the end
of this message.  The code is case sensitive, and does not
contain any digits.

Select the "Continue to Step 3" button from the "Create an
Account" page at .

Do not repeat Steps 1 and 2. (See note below.)

Enter your username, password and verification code into
the appropriate fields and activate the "Verify Account"
button.

         Username: cypherpunks@toad.com
Verification Code: AFGKE   

If you have any questions or comments please contact
webmaster@acm.org.

Sincerely,
The ACM Webmaster


Note: if you repeat steps 1 and 2, your old account is
deleted and the verification code associated with it
will not be valid.  A new code is created and sent.
You must use the new code to verify your account.

=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=

Just a reminder:  if you have not subscribed to the Digital
Library, you can still browse the Library and access bibliographic
information.  Your account username and password will act as
your authentication.

Visit the Digital Library at .
Read about subscribing to the Library at


=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=

// This message was generated by ENS. The public key //
// is available at http://www.acm.org/sys/ens.html   //


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.2

iQB1AwUBNf2Hp840plPFvmzxAQHfOwL/Srm7AQXIiNoP10jllyU4rDxYslYvPwqm
7xRvRfNadT2fkW0DNfCJhdr2Gd40cSpUqKBAvn8uPIsKeuT6G2NX65tHe5crNpDx
XSDva/VV9OZWSgnEHuUulabmjdv/Bhux
=P/RE
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 18:46:08 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Deadly Spice or Seventh Seal?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 1:48 PM -0700 9/14/98, Tim May wrote:
>At 1:08 PM -0700 9/14/98, harald.fragner@idg.se wrote:
>>> Why yes, yes you do.  Don't you recognize the black robe, the scythe,
>>> the bony hand, the less-than-cheerful disposition?
>>>
>>> See if you can figure it out.  And please hold still for a moment.  Let
>>> me just wind up here with this thing....
>>
>>Ultima Online?
>>

>No, but here are some other choices:
>
>#1: The long lost Power Ranger.
>
>#2: The latest member of the Spice Girls, "Deadly Spice."
>
>#3: The character played by your own countryman in a famouns Ingmar Bergman
>film.
>
>All the hints you'll get today.

Actually, I misspoke. The famous Swedish actor played the _knight_ who
faced this character, not the character itself. (Hint: This actor also
played the exorcist of Regan.)

And the character itself made a guest appearance in one of Bill and Ted's
Excellent Adventures.


--Tim May

(This space left blank pending determ. of acceptability to the gov't.)
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 18:40:12 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Clinton--Why I am Chortling
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 3:49 PM -0700 9/14/98, tzeruch@ceddec.com wrote:

>
>Clinton can still veto the omnibus appropriations bill or threaten to
>"shut down the government" (= shut down government spending instead of
>leaving it running while nothing else gets done).

Hey, don't rule this out. Clinton may welcome shutting down the
government...after all, it was during the 1995 shutdown that Clinton got in
touch with his horndog self. To wit, normal employees were all sent home,
and the delivery girl role was played by Monica Lewinsky, who delivered
some pie to Clinton one quiet evening.

--Tim May



(This space left blank pending determ. of acceptability to the gov't.)
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 20:12:57 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: IP: A CLINTON DIRTY BOOK STORY
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <35FDBFDA.4CE5@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> The claims made by Bernard Schwartz and Loral that they did not
> knowingly export military technology to China contradicts the
> official briefing documents given to Ron Brown in 1994.  One
> Loral document obtained from the files of Ron Brown, labeled
> "for Secy. Brown", has a page titled "Commercial Applications Of
> DoD Technology".  This document lists "Intelsat", "Cellular -
> Globalstar" and "Direct Broadcast Satellite" technology along
> with a variety of other products developed from "DoD" projects.
> Thus, Loral knowingly exported systems they developed for the
> U.S. military to China.
> 
I can think of several versions of this:

a. simple money and politics - company wants big $ deal, contributes to
right politicians. ( |$| > |USA| ) --> fast track for deal

b. round 2 of crypto-AG - they want to listen to the Chinese so they had
better be the equipment vendor. Who operates the satellites that the
Chinese radios use?

You might say that to meet US Intelligence needs the range of products
available outside the US should be minimized and those that are shipped
should come from companies that cooperate with the NSA. It makes some
*small* amount of sense but certainly plays hell with what an
entrepreneurial type might want to accomplish. Pretty unfair in that
regard. Especially since they have no visible control over
extraterritorial ventures anyway. Civilian interest and capability in
crypto must piss these guys off beyond belief. Stupid Constitution!

Mike




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 20:15:41 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Predictions: Crime and Criminal Justice in the 21st Century
In-Reply-To: <35FDD227.4C7D@yankton.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Good post. The war is about to be joined.

At 7:34 PM -0700 9/14/98, nnburk wrote:
>Predictions: Crime and Criminal Justice in the 21st Century
>
>1.      The United States will experience a significant economic
>recession/crisis very close to the turn of the Century.
>

Agreed. The chickens are coming home to roost. America will get what it
deserves. I figure the Y2K problem will be the most significant trigger
event.

>2.      As the large pool of young people born in the early 1990s
>become teenagers and young adults, there will be a dramatic
>increase in violent crime around the year 2005-2010.

See "A Clockwork Orange" for details. Today's Ebonics kids will be
tomorrow's Droogs.

>3.      America will experience sporadic civil disorders/riots in
>many of its urban areas during the next 10-15 years -- much of it
>related to racial/ethnic problems.

The inner cities will burn. 10 million ethnics will wipe themselves out.
White America (and Asian America, who are honorary whites, by the
University of California's admissions standards) will cluck, but will watch
the inner cities burn themselves out with only a "I told you so" attitude.
Miami, Chicago, Washington, LA, New York, Atlanta, New Orleans, and a dozen
other cities will be like Berlin after the war.

>
>4.      Terrorist acts by "fringe"/special issue groups will
>increase at a significant rate -- becoming a major law enforcement
>and security problem.

Freedom fighters, not terrorists.

>5.      As faith in the criminal justice system declines, there
>will be a rise in vigilante-based incidents where citizens take
>the enforcement of crime problems into their own hands.

Local justice, not vigilantism. OJ and You Know Who hanged side by side.
Several million welfare thieves given  the choice of hard labor for 20 or
so years, to repay the money they stole, or a bullet to the head. Their
choice.

>6.      Much of middle- and upper-class America will take a
>"retreatist" attitude and move into private high-security
>communities located in suburban or rural areas. Because of
>technological advances, many companies and corporations will also
>move out of the urban environments as well.

Yes, more and more of my wealthy friends are doing this. Most of them are
moving to the country, where defenses are more naturally provided, and not
necessarily moving to gate communities (which are actually quite
indefensible when the welfare addicts and gangbangers start rioting and
dancing.)


>7.      Due to many of the predictions listed above, much of law
>enforcement and security in the 21st Century will become
>privatized and contractual. Traditional law enforcement agencies
>will primarily serve urban and rural communities.

"Snow Crash."

>
>8.      Law enforcement will evolve into two major and divergent
>roles: traditional law enforcement and a more specialized
>military tactical role to deal with the growing urban violance
>and terrorist incidents.

Has already happened. The National Police Force is already mobilized
against religious groups which are deemed unacceptable, pace the Branch
Davidians.

>9.      Significant violence and unrest will plague our nation's
>prisons. Major prison riots will become a regular occurrence.

Burn the prisons with the inmates locked inside. Then simply execute those
who commit the most serious crimes.


>10.     With the decrease of the possibility of major global
>warfare, the United States military will take on an increased
>domestic "peace-keeping" role with America's law enforcement
>agencies.

Posse comitatus is already becoming a moot point. The Army will be
patrolling the streets within a few years, probably coterminous with Y2K
problems and the resulting martial law.

Militias and freedom fighters will have to start hitting U.S. military
installations. Many will die. Eventually the military will abandon the
Washington elite and will join the freedom fighters.

Ten million politicians and welfare thieves will be put up against the wall.


--Tim May

(This space left blank pending determ. of acceptability to the gov't.)
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: harald.fragner@idg.se
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 12:02:16 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Hi!
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Do I know you?

Harald

------------------
Harald Fragner
IT-avdelningen, IDG
Tel: 08-453 60 10
Fax: 08-453 60 05
Email: harald.fragner@idg.se




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 20:43:59 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Harald to be hit with U.S. cruise missiles
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 5:45 PM -0700 9/14/98, HyperReal-Anon wrote:
>On Mon, 14 Sep 1998 harald.fragner@idg.se wrote:
>
>>
>> Do I know you?
>>
>> Harald

>No, but we know you! You're a very evil man, Mr. Fragner, at least by the
>standards of the Hired Government Ninjas. Under our standards, everyone is
>evil...except government leaders.
>
>Expect black helicopters to be targetting your house in the next few days.
>Do not be surprised if unguided rockets are shot into it. If ninjas are
>coming through your windows at 2AM, just remember: We're from the
>government and we're here to help you. Just bend over and grip the towel
>rack.

This is reprehensibile!

HyperReal-Anon is alerting a Confirmed Net Terrorist to a planned U.S.
cruise missile attack on Harald. Harald's crimes are not important. What is
important is that the U.S. Muffdiver William Jefferson Clinton has orded
the Northern Fleet to strike Harald's home and hometown and to report that
Harald was a known associate of both Asama bin Laden and Phillip
Zimmermann, known freedom fighters.

Harald will learn that Six Degrees is monitoring all thoughtcrimes.

Besides, Harald apparently used Roundup in his garden, the same nerve gas
precursor found at the Baby Milk and Marzipan Factory in Khartoum. This
means that Harald was manufacturing nerve gas in his Swedish home.

--Tim May

(This space left blank pending determ. of acceptability to the gov't.)
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: tzeruch@ceddec.com
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 17:48:42 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Clinton--Why I am Chortling
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <98Sep14.184802edt.43010@brickwall.ceddec.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Sun, 13 Sep 1998, Declan McCullagh wrote:

> On Sat, 12 Sep 1998, Tim May wrote:
> 
> > * What goes around, comes around. The Liberal puke Democrats who crucified
> > Bob Packwood, Clarence Thomas, and any number of corporate people charged
> > with "sexual harassment," are now reaping what they sowed. "If she says it
> > happened, it happened," the mantra of the feminazi left, is now apparently
> > forgotten by Patricia It's not our business" Ireland.
> 
> There's also the idea popular in some gender feminist circles that the
> imbalance of power in manager-employee relationships makes it impossible
> for genuine consent to be given. Can there be any greater power imbalance
> than the president of the United States and an intern? Where are the
> feminist cries of outrage?

I think they have abandon Aristotelian (or any other phylum of) Logic,
replacing it with something called post structuralist thinking.  Since it
lacks a structure, it is hard to figure out how to explain it.  Apparently
it is a system where "Male Lesbians" exist.  So because Clinton does what
the GFs want, maybe he isn't really powerful at all (name anyone who is
both powerful and submits to GFs, at least in contexts not included in the
Starr report).  No, it doesn't really make sense, but I don't think it is
supposed to.

> > * Lawmaking is paralzyed, frozen, stillborne. This I count as a Good Thing.
> > Even better will be another 8-10 months of this nightly spectacle. No
> > Health Care Reform, no Communications Decency Act II, no Tobacco Act,
> > nothing.
> 
> In general you might be right. But for "noncontroversial" measures like
> CDA II, well, it'll be in one of the appropriations bills that will be
> approved in the next three weeks.

Do libraries now ban minors' access to MSNBC, CNN, ... The House of
Representatives, and the Library of Congress?  And things like NetNanny
and SurfWatch?

Clinton can still veto the omnibus appropriations bill or threaten to
"shut down the government" (= shut down government spending instead of
leaving it running while nothing else gets done).




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 12:06:29 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199809141658.SAA03123@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I think a more appropriate question might be who we aren't.  Believe me,
you'll have an acute understanding of who we are soon enough.
MUWAHAHAHAHA!

Was that sinister enough?


At 06:27 PM 9/13/98 -0700, Well now I am a Mommy! wrote:
>hi,
>
>I see you added me as a friend..... just wondering who you are.  :)
>
>Christy
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 18:06:09 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: A CLINTON DIRTY BOOK STORY
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Delivered-To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
Subject: IP: A CLINTON DIRTY BOOK STORY
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 14:04:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: softwar@us.net (CharlesSmith)
To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
Sender: owner-ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
Precedence: list
Reply-To: softwar@us.net (CharlesSmith)

In late 1994 the U.S. State Department denied Phil Karn his
request to export a PC disk.  Mr. Karn already had sold the
book, APPLIED CRYPTOGRAPHY written by Bruce Schneier, without
restriction.  Mr. Karn also included a disk of text source code
(in human readable format) that was also printed in the book.

The book and the disk were freely sold, with no checks, in
retail American bookstores.  According to the Clinton
administration, Karn's disk was a threat to national security.
Newly released documents from the State Department, written in
November 1994, shows the White House National Security Council
(NSC) directly approved the decision to deny Karn's request
while allowing the export of military encryption to China.

The document, a letter written by Wendy Sherman, State
Department Assistant Secretary of Legislative Affairs, to then
Congresswoman Maria Cantwell (D WA) was provided to Bill
Clements of the NSC for White House approval.  In addition, the
document includes a fax on Karn's export problem titled "TO:
Pres. Clinton".  Ordie Kittrie, the State Department Attorney
for Political-Military Affairs, wrote "Attached is draft
response to Rep. Cantwell ie Karn encryption disk...  Please
provide me with any comments by noon Friday, November 18."

"The decision that controls should continue was based on several
consideration," wrote Ms. Sherman.  "The administration will
continue to restrict export of sophisticated encryption devices,
both to preserve our own foreign intelligence gathering
capability and because of the concerns of our allies who fear
that strong encryption technology would inhibit their law
enforcement capabilities.  One result of the interagency review
of Mr. Karn's disk was a determination that the source code on
it is of such a strategic level as to warrant continued State
Department licensing."

Of course, any criminal or terrorist could simply purchase the
book and key the code in.  A slightly richer criminal could even
use an Optical Scanner (OCR) and convert the pages directly into
readable source code in less time.  Even a secret Commerce
briefing document from a 1996 meeting with Janet Reno openly
admits the futile nature of trying to restrict PC diskette or
software export.  "Lost in the debate," states the secret 1996
Commerce Department document.  "But not irrelevant, is the fact
that it is virtually impossible to enforce export control's
against them when they can be exported by phone and modem or/in
someone's pocket."

At first the Clinton encryption policy seems absurd or simply
driven by bureaucratic red tape.  Alas, nothing is further from
the truth.  The policy was used as a means to extort donations
for the DNC or by Clinton insiders bent on making big bucks.

The Chinese Army was not interested in PC programs or diskettes
their agents could buy openly in a retail bookstore.  The PLA
under the Clinton administration has been in the business of
acquiring commercial applications of "Defense" technology.  For
example, in November 1994 Motorola employee and former Clinton
White House NSC member Richard Barth began his successful
request to sell encrypted radios and cellular phones to the
Chinese Police.

Motorola's Barth wrote to Theodore McNamara Assistant Secretary
of State on November 23, 1994.  "This is to request that your
office initiate action to obtain a waiver from requirement for
individual export license notifications to Congress for wireless
mobile communications systems containing encryption for China.
Such a waiver was issued by the President in September of this
year for civilian satellite systems and encrypted products for
use by American firms operating in China."

According to Barth, a high-tech trade war had erupted between
the U.S. and Britain.  "European firms," wrote Barth.
"Including Nokia, Ericsson, Alcatel and Siemens, have for a
number of months been able to market and sell GSM cellular
systems with A5-2 encryption in China as a result of a decision
taken by the UK intelligence agency, GCHQ."

By July 1995, the CEO of Motorola, Gary Tooker, wrote a personal
note to Ron Brown, expressing his gratitude for Clinton's
signature approving encryption exports.  "I am writing to thank
you," wrote Tooker to Brown.  "And some key members of the
Commerce Department for your assistance in obtaining the
Presidential waiver for encryption export sales to China."

The Motorola saga of Barth is not the only example of Bill
Clinton's two-faced policy on high-tech exports.  In fact,
President Clinton personally authorized the transfer of an
encrypted air traffic control system to the Chinese Air Force.
It is this particular export which illustrates the difference
between military encryption and civilian, such as Karn's disk of
PC programs.

The Chinese Air Force runs the civilian air control in their
country.  The U.S. built air traffic system is not only run by
PLAAF officers but it is also plugged directly into their air
defense.  According to the recent GAO testimony on Clinton
waivers "Waivers were also granted to permit the export of
encryption equipment controlled on the Munitions List.  One case
involved a $4.3-million communications export to China's Air
Force."

Not only are Chinese fighters and missiles more effective thanks
to Bill Clinton but China has also exported a modified version
of the U.S. system to Iraq.  The Chinese version, called "Tiger
Song", includes U.S. and French made parts.  The Tiger Song
system allows Iraq to track and target U.S. fighters using a
high speed, secure, fiber optic command network.

All radars in Iraq, civilian and military, are now linked
together into Tiger Song.  Iraqi missiles and military radars
are also now playing a giant shell game with U.S. air forces,
using pre-built camouflaged sites wired with hidden fiber optic
cables, scattered all over the country.

Another military example of Clinton crypto export controls is
the sales of Hughes, Motorola, and Loral satellites to the
Chinese military.  The satellites were sold complete with
on-board secure telemetry systems hardened to absorb the intense
radiation of space - something that can be directly applied to
nuclear weapons.  The satellites exported to China in question
were so classified that whole sections of Federal law, the U.S.
Munitions List, were deleted or waived by Bill Clinton.

The claims made by Bernard Schwartz and Loral that they did not
knowingly export military technology to China contradicts the
official briefing documents given to Ron Brown in 1994.  One
Loral document obtained from the files of Ron Brown, labeled
"for Secy. Brown", has a page titled "Commercial Applications Of
DoD Technology".  This document lists "Intelsat", "Cellular -
Globalstar" and "Direct Broadcast Satellite" technology along
with a variety of other products developed from "DoD" projects.
Thus, Loral knowingly exported systems they developed for the
U.S. military to China.

Did Mr. Clinton consult with U.S. allies prior to allowing top
DNC donors export rights to military gear?  According to
Motorola, the staunchest U.S. ally, Great Britain, was an
economic adversary.  Clearly, the strategic concerns of South
Korea, Japan and the Philippines were never considered.  Under
Bill Clinton our allies from the Cold War were competitors in a
economic war for money.

Furthermore, in September 1998 FBI Director Freeh testified
before the Senate Committee on Terrorism.  As predicted, Freeh
pushed the "Bin Ladden" terrorism button while requesting a ban
on domestic PC encryption programs.  The use of encryption by so
called terrorist organizations is balanced by the use of the
same technology by law abiding citizens to protect themselves
from criminals.  The fact that Bin Ladden is armed with
encryption comes as no surprise since he was, after all, trained
by the CIA to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan.  Once a freedom
fighter and now a terrorist.

One similar historic example to Bin Ladden is "VULA".  In the
1980s the South African National Congress (ANC) used encryption
in a project called "VULA" to defeat the apartheid government.
Vula included illegal exports from europe, Soviet training and
home built software.  Vula was successful and the ANC ultimately
won their long war.  Once a terrorist now a freedom fighter.

These facts are not unknown to the Clinton administration.  In
November 1993 TOP Secret document prepared for President Clinton
openly admitted the futility of any government-imposed ban.
According to "IMPACTS OF TELECOMMUNICATIONS AND ENCRYPTION
TECHNOLOGY ON LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE COLLECTION:
ASSESSMENT, OPTIONS, AND RECOMMENDATIONS" a ban would "either
(1) discourage criminals from using encryption because they
realized that most products did not provide protection from
wiretaps, or (2) encourage criminals to acquire strong
encryption technology, whether commercial or home made."

Obviously, the administration will not start banning books so
the "home made" option will always apply.  The FBI Director
seems to have forgotten common sense along with the law.  He
certainly has remained silent while the Chinese Army purchased
military encryption systems from his boss.  Freeh, however, has
also remained adamant that crack-pot export restrictions on
printed text must remain.

Mr. Freeh also overlooked one final historical example of a so
called revolutionary type group using encryption and the FBI
Director can thank his job for it.  In April 1775 Paul Revere
read a coded light signal from a Church tower and rode into
history.  The King's men did not intercept nor decode that
message.  The battle of Concord took place and the first shots
of our own revolution were fired.

================================================================
source documents  -

http://www.softwar.net/karn.html
Clinton NSC/State Crypto Book Disk Export

http://www.softwar.net/loral.html
LORAL Commercial Applications of DOD Tech

http://www.softwar.net/inpact.html
TOP SECRET "Impacts of Encryption"

http://www.softwar.net/vula.html
ANC Operation VULA - Freedom Fighers Use Crypto

http://www.softwar.net/moto4.html
1995 MOTOROLA Tooker To Warren Christopher For Crypto To China

http://www.softwar.net/tooker1.html
July 1995 MOTOROLA Thank You For Encryption Export To Ron Brown

http://www.softwar.net/tooker2.html
Feb. 1995 MOTOROLA To Ron Brown - Human Rights and Crypto

http://www.softwar.net/barth95.html
March 1995 MOTOROLA - Encrypted Radios/Iridium For China

http://www.softwar.net/barth94.html
Richard Barth 1994 Secret Letters Email

http://www.softwar.net/barth93.html
Richard Barth 1993 Secret White House Email

http://www.softwar.net/gao176.html
GAO REPORT - ARMS FOR CHINA - CRYPTO FOR CHINA
================================================================
1 if by land, 2 if by sea.  Paul Revere - encryption 1775

Charles R. Smith
SOFTWAR         http://www.softwar.net      softwar@softwar.net
Pcyphered SIGNATURE:
4CE66EF8168673DBB980C519E94FB51027FA5FF001D1BB63298A4E5E28906370
1B9713F09BEEF599003431629914FB78B8704B2BB0DDB22DCA21DB900065CA07
5E32CB3CE742D7C6
================================================================
SOFTWAR EMAIL NEWSLETTER                            09/07/1998
***  to unsubscribe reply with "unsubscribe" as subject    ***
================================================================

**COPYRIGHT NOTICE** In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, any
copyrighted work in this message is distributed under fair use without
profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in
receiving the included information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml





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--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 12:39:26 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199809141729.TAA05465@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Why yes, yes you do.  Don't you recognize the black robe, the scythe,
the bony hand, the less-than-cheerful disposition?

See if you can figure it out.  And please hold still for a moment.  Let me
just wind up here with this thing....


At 06:43 PM 9/14/98 +0100, harald.fragner@idg.se wrote:
>Do I know you?
>
>Harald
>
>------------------
>Harald Fragner
>IT-avdelningen, IDG
>Tel: 08-453 60 10
>Fax: 08-453 60 05
>Email: harald.fragner@idg.se
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nnburk 
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 19:36:11 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Predictions: Crime and Criminal Justice in the 21st Century
Message-ID: <35FDD227.4C7D@yankton.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Predictions: Crime and Criminal Justice in the 21st Century

1.      The United States will experience a significant economic 
recession/crisis very close to the turn of the Century.

2.      As the large pool of young people born in the early 1990s 
become teenagers and young adults, there will be a dramatic 
increase in violent crime around the year 2005-2010.

3.      America will experience sporadic civil disorders/riots in 
many of its urban areas during the next 10-15 years -- much of it 
related to racial/ethnic problems.

4.      Terrorist acts by "fringe"/special issue groups will 
increase at a significant rate -- becoming a major law enforcement 
and security problem.

5.      As faith in the criminal justice system declines, there 
will be a rise in vigilante-based incidents where citizens take 
the enforcement of crime problems into their own hands.

6.      Much of middle- and upper-class America will take a 
"retreatist" attitude and move into private high-security 
communities located in suburban or rural areas. Because of 
technological advances, many companies and corporations will also 
move out of the urban environments as well.

7.      Due to many of the predictions listed above, much of law 
enforcement and security in the 21st Century will become 
privatized and contractual. Traditional law enforcement agencies 
will primarily serve urban and rural communities.

8.      Law enforcement will evolve into two major and divergent 
roles: traditional law enforcement and a more specialized 
military tactical role to deal with the growing urban violance 
and terrorist incidents.

9.      Significant violence and unrest will plague our nation's 
prisons. Major prison riots will become a regular occurrence.

10.     With the decrease of the possibility of major global 
warfare, the United States military will take on an increased 
domestic "peace-keeping" role with America's law enforcement 
agencies.



John Young wrote:
> 
> Tim asks:
> 
> >Freeh and Company continue to mumble about "meeting
> >the legitmate needs of law enforcement." What can they
> >be speaking of?
> ...
> >Obviously his side is contemplating domestic crypto restrictions.
> 
> Threat of terrorism will be the impetus for applying national security
> restrictions domestically, for relaxing cold war limitations on spying
> on Americans, for dissolving barriers between law enforcement
> and military/intelligence agencies.
> 
> Technical means for access to encrypted data will probably
> come first in communications, then to stored material. There
> will be an agreement for increased CALEA wiretap funding, which
> is what the two cellular and wired suits against the FBI intend,
> (paralleling what the hardware and software industries want from
> federal buyers of security products).
> 
> This will provide the infrastructural regime for the gov to monitor
> and store domestic traffic as NSA does for the global, using the
> same technology (NSA may provide service to domestic
> LEA as it now does for other gov customers for intel).
> 
> Other access will come through hardware and software for
> computers, paralleling technology developed for telecomm tapping,
> tracking and monitoring.
> 
> Most probably through overt/covert features of microprocessors
> and OS's, as reported recently of Wintel and others, but also
> probably with special chips for DSP and software for modular
> design -- why build from scratch when these handy kits are
> available.
> 
> As noted here, the features will appear first as optional, in response
> to demand from commerce, from parents, from responsible
> institutions, to meet public calls for protection, for privacy, for
> combating threats to the American people.
> 
> Like wiretap law, use of the features for preventative snooping will
> initially require a court order, as provided in several of the crypto
> legislative proposals.
> 
> Like the wiretap orders, gradually there will be no secret court refusals
> for requests to use the technology in the national interest.
> 
> A publicity campain will proclaims that citizens with nothing to hide
> will have nothing to fear. Assurance of safety will be transparent,
> no clicks on the line. In a digital world, home-office devices will send
> lifestyle data to the device manufacturers over the always monitoring
> transparental Net.
> 
> Personal privacy will evaporate almost unnoticeably, as with the tv
> remote control, cp/defcon/bar brag, telephone, fax and forever-lovers
> pillowtalk.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: awestrop@dimensional.com (Alan Westrope)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 21:14:51 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: FBI's valiant fight against Marxism
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

For comic relief, see

http://www.nytimes.com/yr/mo/day/news/arts/groucho-fbi-file.html and

http://www.thenation.com/issue/980928/0928WIEN.HTM

regarding Hoover's investigation of a famed Marxist comic.

(BTW, Obergruppenfuehrer Freeh's characterization of Declan as a
"radical" reminded me of the mathematical quip by that obscure Marxist
comic, Karl:  "To be radical is to go to the root of the equation!")

Cigar jokes are left as an exercise for the reader.

__
Alan Westrope                      PGP    http://www.dim.com/~awestrop
                public  http://www.nyx.net/~awestrop
                 key:   also via keyservers & finger
PGP RSA 0xB8359639:  D6 89 74 03 77 C8 2D 43   7C CA 6D 57 29 25 69 23

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Version: 2.6.2

iQCVAwUBNf3NP1RRFMq4NZY5AQGG3gP7BIr4/31xwhpX3Ye4je4z3J3ssQ4ekqJK
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lvEiomwWfKRvn9ZGWIygDZmRroJ5ZyXQaXNQW5Ao7XUIePN44pT2Ny4nRE0PjsJi
WlD2O5sYqWw=
=ReUo
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 22:12:47 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Larry Gilbert, AOLers, and the Hyper-real flamer
In-Reply-To: <199809150228.EAA19097@replay.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 7:28 PM -0700 9/14/98, Anonymous wrote:

>Sixdegrees could avoid these problems very easily by adding a domain
>verification so that somebody from Netcom can't specify some address at
>toad.com and have it work. They haven't. They haven't because they don't
>care. Saying that some sites have screwed up rDNS and mail domains isn't a
>valid excuse. They can insert exemptions for Hotmail, MSN, Juno, and other
>sites like that if they want. Oh, maybe they have a "phobia" of this, just
>like AOLers apparently have a "phobia" of even making an attempt to use
>English properly, so it's okay.


This is why I have been responding to "sixdedegrees" contacts with threats,
death threats, threats to put them on my spam list, promises to contact
their children, and other such delightful things.

They have become an Internet bomb, exploding in our midst.

Respond to them in kind.

--Tim May

P.S., Anonymous goes on to write:

>Now, since you're all for niceness in the world, you can go jump on Tim
>since he's doing this too.
>
>  From: Tim May 
>  To: Well now I am a Mommy! , cypherpunks@toad.com
>  Subject: Re: sixdegrees
...

That's right. I say death to Sixdegrees and death to those who spam us.

Kill the fuckers dead. Let Frodo sort them out.

Wiping out the corporate monstrosity that is "Sixdegrees" will be sweet.

--Tim May


(This space left blank pending determ. of acceptability to the gov't.)
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Paul H. Merrill" 
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 19:47:17 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Larry Gilbert
In-Reply-To: <7b77428acf328c029db809968e76c70d@anonymous>
Message-ID: <35FDE268.79F4FF46@acm.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I love this to death.  Some asshole sends crap data to sixdegrees
including dredged up real email addresses, then when sixdegrees and the
contacts given react in a totally appropriate manner other (?) assholes
berate them for living.  And this one even manages to toss in an
anti-AOL rant where AOL plays no part.

Such witticisms I haven't seen since my kids turned 7.

PHM

HyperReal-Anon wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 14 Sep 1998, sixdegrees wrote:
> 
> >
> > Just a quick update from sixdegrees(tm). Unfortunately Larry
> > Gilbert (irving@pobox.com) asked not to be listed as your
> > contact with sixdegrees.
> >
> > We also wanted to make sure you were aware that you currently
> > have no other confirmed contacts, so it will be hard for you to
> > have a productive sixdegrees experience. As you probably know,
> > without any confirmed contacts, you won't get any results from our
> > networking searches.
> >
> > So, we just wanted to recommend that you head over to
> > http://www.sixdegrees.com , log-in, and go to MY CONTACTS
> > to list additional relationships.
> >
> >
> > ====================================================================
> > PLEASE NOTE: All replies to this address are processed by a computer.
> > If you have any problems, questions or requests send an e-mail to
> > issues@sixdegrees.com and someone will get back to you as soon as
> > possible.
> > ====================================================================
> 
> Since you seem so intent on continuing to spam the Cypherpunks list like
> some AOL luser-wannabe, I have a better idea. Follow this procedure
> exactly to reach enlightenment:
> 
> 1) Open the cases for all your computers.
> 2) Drop your pants.
> 3) Whip it out. In the case of a woman, just squat.
> 4) Spray all your machines.
> 5) If any machines are still working, pour large amounts of concentrated
> nitric acid solution on them. Inhale the resulting vapors.
> 6) Close the door, activate the halon system, sit down, and inhale deeply.
> 7) You will pass out. Within a few minutes, you will see the Grand Poobah
> himself.
> 8) If you do not have a halon system, inhale heavy gasses such as freon.
> 
> We're glad to be of service to clueless AOLholes and clueless
> AOLhole-wannabes everywhere. Have a nice day.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: harald.fragner@idg.se
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 14:27:19 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re:
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> Why yes, yes you do.  Don't you recognize the black robe, the scythe,
> the bony hand, the less-than-cheerful disposition?
> 
> See if you can figure it out.  And please hold still for a moment.  Let 
> me just wind up here with this thing....

Ultima Online?


------------------
Harald Fragner
IT-avdelningen, IDG
Tel: 08-453 60 10
Fax: 08-453 60 05
Email: harald.fragner@idg.se




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: attila 
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 16:19:47 +0800
To: Tim May 
Subject: Re: Clinton--Why I am Chortling
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Mon, 14 Sep 1998, Tim May wrote:

>
>[snip the whatever]
>
>Like I said, I'm chortling. What goes around, come around.
>
>And I'm happy that lying sack of shit of a President may escape being
>removed from office. Having him around is a useful reminder, the next best
>thing to the useful policy of letting a corpse hang from the gallows for a
>couple of months.
>
>--Tim May
>
    as much as I think Clinton is a scurrilous excuse for a human being,
    I could not agree with you more.  besides, Al Bore is worse.

    let Clinton hang, pecker and all.

__________________________________________________________________________

    To be a ruler of men, you need at least 12 inches.... 
_________________________________________________________________ attila__




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 20:17:32 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: a few facts on Presidential peccadillos (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809150119.VAA08631@panix7.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



   >   From: attila 
   >
   >       power trippers attract willing victims.
   >
   >
   >   ANSWERS
   >
   >   1.  John F. Kennedy
   >   2.  Bill Clinton
   >   3.  Lyndon B. Johnson
   >   4.  Thomas Jefferson
   >   5.  Bill Clinton
   >   6.  Andrew Jackson
   >   7.  Lyndon B. Johnson
   >   8.  Franklin D. Roosevelt, John F. Kennedy
   >   9.  Warren G. Harding
   >   10. John F. Kennedy
   >   11. Lyndon B. Johnson
   >   12. Lyndon B. Johnson

Clinton is normal?

Cool!
---guy




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: TM 
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 23:52:55 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Joe Farah 9/14 (Pppbbbttt)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19980914230008.007fb830@mailhost.IntNet.net>
Message-ID: <199809150446.VAA18561@smtp1.jps.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

[ I know this'll never get read by Joe Farah, but what the hell. Gotta
speak up, right? ]

At 08:00 PM 9/14/1998 , Jeff Penrod wrote:
>Americans get what they deserve 	
>
>I love America. 
>
>I love the spacious skies. I love the amber waves of grain, the purple
>mountains' majesties and the fruited plains. But what I love most about
>America is the God-breathed revolutionary spirit that led its founders to
>risk everything in a desperate fight for freedom and a noble effort to
>write the greatest Constitution the world has ever known. 

Yeah right. The Constitution and the Revolution were perpetrated by two
different groups. The Constitution had no revolution behind it. It was
created because the Articles of Confederation provided no central
government, and the republic was floundering. The rich were feeling
threatened by uprisings (like Shay's Rebellion). Alexander Hamilton
(conspicuously missing from your list of ppl who staked their lives), the
*father of the Constitution*, favored a monarchy.

>But something dreadful has happened to that spirit. It's gone. Oh, there's
>a small remnant of people who still have it, understand it and live by it.
>But, apparently, the vast majority of Americans are clueless about it. They
>have no sense of history. They have no connection with their revolutionary
>past. They have no idea of how blessed they are to live with the fleeting
>legacy of freedom they inherited from George Washington, Thomas Jefferson,
>James Madison and our other forefathers who staked their lives, their
>fortunes and their sacred honor in a quest for liberty.

Actually, the Framers of the Constitution made damn sure their fortunes
were covered. Article VI clearly states...

"All Debts contracted and Engagements entered into, before the Adoption of
this Constitution, shall be as valid against the United States under this
Constitution, as under the Confederation."

A large majority of the Framers were owed money by the government under the
Confederation.

Also, Thomas Jefferson was in Paris when the Constitution was written. He
was responsible for the Declaration of Independence (a beautiful piece of
writing, BTW), but not the Constitution.

>Americans have
>grown fat and lazy, content with their material blessings and ignorant of
>their far more important endowment of freedom. 

Americans have growns fat and lazy, content with their material blessings
and ignorant of their exploitation by the captialist society in which they
live.

>It's enough to make you sick. 

Amen.

>Oh, sure, Americans have lots of scapegoats for their ignorance. They've
>been deliberately dumbed down for 30 or more years by government schools
>determined to turn them into mindless robots. They have been the victims of
>media propaganda designed to deceive them and lead them astray. And for a
>generation or more they have been seduced by government plans to instill in
>them an ever-greater sense of dependency. 

They've been preyed upon by monopolies, they've been exploited by
management, and they've been fucked up the ass by big business. Meanwhile,
the largest rift between rich and poor in modern industrialized countries
steadily grows wider... 1% of the population controls 90% of the wealth,
and my future has been leased by old rich white men.

>But those are excuses. The truth is out there. It's more readily available
>to Americans who choose to seek it out than any other people in history.
>Americans are just too busy, blind or comfortable to bother searching for
>it. Most don't even comprehend the way they are being manipulated -- or
>just don't care. In other words, ultimately, they have no one to blame but
>themselves. 

In other words, listen to you, because you have the Truth (c)(r)(tm).

>As an example of what I'm talking about, take the latest polls conducted
>after the release of the Starr report. Most Americans say President Clinton
>is doing a good job and should not resign or be impeached. A CNN/Gallup
>poll released the day the report went public on the Internet placed the
>president's job approval rating at 62 percent, about where it was before
>the report was released. More than half, 58 percent, said Congress should
>vote to censure the president for behavior that has eroded the public's
>respect for his ethics and truthfulness -- a thoroughly meaningless
>gesture, a slap on the wrist with no consequences, the kind of punishment
>Bill Clinton awaits more eagerly than the next class of White House interns. 

So... you would rather go against the people's sovereignty and impose your
own personal political agenda on the public, simply because you don't think
Americans are fit to rule themselves? Hah! Americans will run America, for
good or bad. That's the way the Framers intended it. In fact, I think
they'd be rather pleased to see how political and economic elites have
monopolized this country. The Framers were never big on majority rule.

>Almost 60 percent of those polled said they thought Clinton was fit to be
>president. By what standard? That's the trouble. Americans have no
>standards -- no unchangeable yardsticks by which they measure right and
>wrong, truth from fiction. 

By *their* standard, by their own personal judgement. There's no moral
yardstick, and God help us if there is in the future. Who makes the
yardstick? Who sits down and says, "This is the moral standard in this
country, abide by it or suffer the consequences"?

>Now, I don't put much stock in public opinion surveys. They are often
>conducted by the same corporate media interests whose agenda is
>inextricably tied to bigger and more intrusive government. Nevertheless,
>these surveys are at least an indication that our nation is in grave
>trouble. 

These surveys are an indication that you are outnumbered. America no longer
abides by your wishes... DANG. Cry me a river, Joe.

>What do they tell us? 

People's rating of Pres. Clinton? Some people's rating of Pres. Clinton?

>We've lost our moorings -- just as surely as Bill Clinton has. America is
>morally, politically, intellectually, spiritually adrift. There are no
>anchors aboard. No compasses. The USS America is at the mercy of the winds
>and currents, and most on board don't care. As long as the crew is serving
>them fine food and entertaining them, the passengers don't give a second
>thought to their fate or their ultimate destination. 

Wow.. you manage to turn FORGIVENESS into a total lack of morals in this
country. Bummer if everyone in America doesn't think the way you do.

>In a way, Americans are getting just what they deserve. Their choice of
>leaders reflects their own inadequacies and shortcomings -- their own
>cowardice. 

Yeah... we should go back to REAL presidents... like Harding or Grant, two
worthless sacks of shit voted in by an apathetic public. Or Jefferson, who
was so morally upright he fathered a child or two with his maid. Or
Coolidge, who was a puppet for 19th century monopolies. This country has
been fraught with stupid leaders, from post-Revolutionary times to modern.

>No wonder they look at Bill Clinton without judgment. To hold him
>accountable would mean holding themselves to a standard of accountability.
>They like looking up to see a leader who is every bit as dysfunctional,
>soulless and lost as themselves. It's comforting, in a perverse way.

Would you rather the lies be hidden? Would you rather the massive
coverups... the back-office political wheelings and dealings? Would you
rather the lies and deceit that has plagued humanity since history began be
hidden from view so you can strut around like an over-inflated rooster and
crow to the world "No corruption here! We're the leaders of the free world!
Our fathers would be proud"?

>And
>psychic and material comfort is the only standard by which Americans today
>measure their lives, their liberty and their pursuit of happiness. It's not
>an easy observation or admission to make, my fellow Americans. But somebody
>has to say it. 	

As opposed to what... you think people in the past sat down and thought
"Well, gee, how free am I this year as compared to last year?" Hell no!
They sat down and thought "Goddamnit, I don't have nothin' ta eat and the
corn done died! Damn lawyers!" For most people, it simply didn't matter who
was in office - the laws didn't affect them in the least.

>A daily radio broadcast adaptation of Joseph Farah's commentaries can be
>heard at http://www.ktkz.com/ 	

Yay.

I simply hate it when ppl wax nostalgic about the Framers. They were a
bunch of white guys all trying to cover their own asses, and in the
process, they came up with a government which is stable because it pits
self-interest against self-interest. I will admit that the government they
created was really pretty cool, but people get so damn sloppy about the
*motives* of the Framers it's disgusting! They weren't guardian angels
carrying out the mandate of God, they were businessmen and lawyers - some
of whom had some brilliant political theories.

Also, the Framers were *not* (repeat, NOT) in favor of majority rule. Only
1/6th of the original government was elected by the ppl (the House of
Representatives). In fact, if you read the minutes of the meetings, ppl
pointed to the abuse of Quakers in PA by a majority.

Right then. I feel better now.

What do other ppl think about this?

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP Cyber-Knights Templar build 5.5.3ckt
Comment: Key ID 0x14C4FDE6

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--
TM(independent software)
http://www.sinnerz.com/tmessiah
PGP Key ID: 4096/1024/0x14C4FDE6
PGP Fingerprint: 1263 DBFD F2C4 77C6 87F2
                 A94A 0759 7C7E 14C4 FDE6

     -export-a-crypto-system-sig -RSA-3-lines-PERL
#!/bin/perl -sp0777i
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 20:52:58 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Predictions: Crime and Criminal Justice in the 21st Century
Message-ID: <199809150153.VAA08803@panix7.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>   From: Tim "I have a LOT of gold in my house" May
>
>   America will get what it deserves.
>
>   The inner cities will burn. 10 million ethnics will wipe themselves out.
>   Miami, Chicago, Washington, LA, New York, Atlanta, New Orleans, and a dozen
>   other cities will be like Berlin after the war.
>
>   See "A Clockwork Orange" for details. Today's Ebonics kids will be
>   tomorrow's Droogs.
>
>   Burn the prisons with the inmates locked inside.
>   Then simply execute those who commit the most serious crimes.
>
>   Militias and freedom fighters will have to start hitting U.S. military
>   installations. Many will die. Eventually the military will abandon the
>   Washington elite and will join the freedom fighters.
>
>   Ten million politicians and welfare thieves will be put up against the wall.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Who woulda thunk Toto was the sane one on the cypherpunks list?

---guy

   Assuming Toto had his Soma supply.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: tom@cat.ping.de (Thomas Adams)Thomas Adams 
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 02:36:32 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Starr report zipped and prepared for offline reading somewhere?
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



You are all writing about Clinton and Monica et al. Dunno what this does here 
but anyway, let me add to the noise:

Is it possible to download the Starr report somewhere, zipped and prepared for 
offline reading?




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jeff Penrod  (by way of "Edwin E. Smith" )
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 22:12:05 +0800
To: PacNewport@aol.com
Subject: Joe Farah 9/14
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980914230008.007fb830@mailhost.IntNet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Americans get what they deserve 	
		
I love America. 

I love the spacious skies. I love the amber waves of grain, the purple
mountains' majesties and the fruited plains. But what I love most about
America is the God-breathed revolutionary spirit that led its founders to
risk everything in a desperate fight for freedom and a noble effort to
write the greatest Constitution the world has ever known. 

But something dreadful has happened to that spirit. It's gone. Oh, there's
a small remnant of people who still have it, understand it and live by it.
But, apparently, the vast majority of Americans are clueless about it. They
have no sense of history. They have no connection with their revolutionary
past. They have no idea of how blessed they are to live with the fleeting
legacy of freedom they inherited from George Washington, Thomas Jefferson,
James Madison and our other forefathers who staked their lives, their
fortunes and their sacred honor in a quest for liberty. 
Americans have
grown fat and lazy, content with their material blessings and ignorant of
their far more important endowment of freedom. 

It's enough to make you sick. 

Oh, sure, Americans have lots of scapegoats for their ignorance. They've
been deliberately dumbed down for 30 or more years by government schools
determined to turn them into mindless robots. They have been the victims of
media propaganda designed to deceive them and lead them astray. And for a
generation or more they have been seduced by government plans to instill in
them an ever-greater sense of dependency. 

But those are excuses. The truth is out there. It's more readily available
to Americans who choose to seek it out than any other people in history.
Americans are just too busy, blind or comfortable to bother searching for
it. Most don't even comprehend the way they are being manipulated -- or
just don't care. In other words, ultimately, they have no one to blame but
themselves. 

As an example of what I'm talking about, take the latest polls conducted
after the release of the Starr report. Most Americans say President Clinton
is doing a good job and should not resign or be impeached. A CNN/Gallup
poll released the day the report went public on the Internet placed the
president's job approval rating at 62 percent, about where it was before
the report was released. More than half, 58 percent, said Congress should
vote to censure the president for behavior that has eroded the public's
respect for his ethics and truthfulness -- a thoroughly meaningless
gesture, a slap on the wrist with no consequences, the kind of punishment
Bill Clinton awaits more eagerly than the next class of White House interns. 

Almost 60 percent of those polled said they thought Clinton was fit to be
president. By what standard? That's the trouble. Americans have no
standards -- no unchangeable yardsticks by which they measure right and
wrong, truth from fiction. 

Now, I don't put much stock in public opinion surveys. They are often
conducted by the same corporate media interests whose agenda is
inextricably tied to bigger and more intrusive government. Nevertheless,
these surveys are at least an indication that our nation is in grave
trouble. 

What do they tell us? 

We've lost our moorings -- just as surely as Bill Clinton has. America is
morally, politically, intellectually, spiritually adrift. There are no
anchors aboard. No compasses. The USS America is at the mercy of the winds
and currents, and most on board don't care. As long as the crew is serving
them fine food and entertaining them, the passengers don't give a second
thought to their fate or their ultimate destination. 

In a way, Americans are getting just what they deserve. Their choice of
leaders reflects their own inadequacies and shortcomings -- their own
cowardice. 

No wonder they look at Bill Clinton without judgment. To hold him
accountable would mean holding themselves to a standard of accountability.
They like looking up to see a leader who is every bit as dysfunctional,
soulless and lost as themselves. It's comforting, in a perverse way. 
And
psychic and material comfort is the only standard by which Americans today
measure their lives, their liberty and their pursuit of happiness. It's not
an easy observation or admission to make, my fellow Americans. But somebody
has to say it. 	
	
A daily radio broadcast adaptation of Joseph Farah's commentaries can be
heard at http://www.ktkz.com/ 	






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 22:56:48 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: DoD on Crypto, Echelon, Secrets
Message-ID: <199809150349.XAA28692@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



We attended Defense Secretary Cohen's talk today at the Council on 
Foreign Relations in New York City on "Security in a Grave World."

While not included in the prepared text, Secretary Cohen remarked 
in the Q&A on terrorism and encryption policy that Americans will 
have to decide how much privacy they will be willing to give up for 
protection against terrorism, and cited the FBI's similar views on 
the threat of encryption use by terrorists. 

Afterwards I had an informative chat with Kenneth Bacon, 
Assistant Secretary of Defense for Public Affairs, to ask about 
interviewing Secretary Cohen on Echelon, the global electronic 
intercept and surveillance system operated by the National Security 
Agency. 

Mr. Bacon said the Department will not comment on such matters. I 
acknowledged that was the case heretofore, but with intense European 
interest in Echelon, I asked if would it be possible for Secretary 
Cohen to give a statement on the topic.

I noted that Secretary Cohen in his talk today had listed international 
cooperation as a principal need of US defense policy, and that Echelon 
had raised considerable suspicion of US interception and surveillance 
prowess which could inhibit international trust and cooperation. 

I also asked Mr. Bacon if Secretary Cohen could discuss as well the 
possibility of further declassification of secret technology, as with 
the Skipjack encryption algorithm, to enhance US economic security and 
for protection against information espionage. 

Mr. Bacon said that others in the Department would be more appropriate 
to discuss such topics in detail then Secretary Cohen. I asked if anyone 
except the Secretary had authority to discuss Echelon and declassification 
of secret technology. Mr. Bacon would not answer that but suggested I 
send a letter proposing such topics for discussion and the Department 
will respond.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: HyperReal-Anon 
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 19:04:46 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Larry Gilbert
Message-ID: <7b77428acf328c029db809968e76c70d@anonymous>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Mon, 14 Sep 1998, sixdegrees wrote:

> 
> Just a quick update from sixdegrees(tm). Unfortunately Larry 
> Gilbert (irving@pobox.com) asked not to be listed as your 
> contact with sixdegrees.
> 
> We also wanted to make sure you were aware that you currently 
> have no other confirmed contacts, so it will be hard for you to
> have a productive sixdegrees experience. As you probably know, 
> without any confirmed contacts, you won't get any results from our 
> networking searches. 
> 
> So, we just wanted to recommend that you head over to 
> http://www.sixdegrees.com , log-in, and go to MY CONTACTS 
> to list additional relationships. 
> 
> 
> ====================================================================
> PLEASE NOTE: All replies to this address are processed by a computer.
> If you have any problems, questions or requests send an e-mail to 
> issues@sixdegrees.com and someone will get back to you as soon as 
> possible.
> ====================================================================

Since you seem so intent on continuing to spam the Cypherpunks list like
some AOL luser-wannabe, I have a better idea. Follow this procedure
exactly to reach enlightenment: 

1) Open the cases for all your computers.
2) Drop your pants.
3) Whip it out. In the case of a woman, just squat.
4) Spray all your machines.
5) If any machines are still working, pour large amounts of concentrated
nitric acid solution on them. Inhale the resulting vapors.
6) Close the door, activate the halon system, sit down, and inhale deeply.
7) You will pass out. Within a few minutes, you will see the Grand Poobah
himself.
8) If you do not have a halon system, inhale heavy gasses such as freon.

We're glad to be of service to clueless AOLholes and clueless
AOLhole-wannabes everywhere. Have a nice day.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 17:10:46 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Is nym.alas.net down?
Message-ID: <2f1b7f6c4bcb1557a6c4409be67a9c36@base.xs4all.nl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Is nym.alias.net down? I've sent a request twice using
a different remailer chain each time yet it still doesn't
reply. It's been about two days since I sent it in.

I did however create a nym with dongco.hyperreal.art.pl.
Is this service reliable? or will it disppear quickly?




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 02:13:53 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Fwd: WHITE HOUSE MULLS NEW INTERNET TAX PROPOSAL  from edupage
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980915001432.008abb40@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Forwarded from Dave Farber's List
-----------------------------------
I think the something at the WH has pushed them off the edge. How much you want to bet that it gives a lot more information than just the item costs. It will be used to police obscenity laws and censorship laws before it is done.

Dave


Ira Magaziner, President Clinton's senior Internet advisor, has proposed a 
new plan for tracking and taxing goods sold over the Internet that would use 
electronic "resident cards" and private-sector escrow agents around the 
world. Consumers would obtain digital cash at banks that would allow 
merchants to identify which country the buyer is in, but would reveal no 
other personal information. Consumption taxes would then be calculated, 
collected, and placed with an escrow agent who would then funnel the money 
to the appropriate government. "Governments would get their money more 
quickly... they would get a higher compliance rate... and the system would 
be easier to police," says Mr. Magaziner. (Wall Street Journal 11 Sep 98)

==================================


				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Eric Cordian 
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 00:18:56 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: The DES Analytic Crack Project
Message-ID: <199809150520.AAA13045@wire.insync.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



As some of you may have noticed, a new attempt to crack the Data
Encryption Standard has been started, with a descriptive FAQ located
at the following URL
 
        http://www.cyberspace.org/~enoch/crakfaq.html
 
A while back, after the first DES challenge was announced, a number of
us made the observation that a known plaintext attack on DES,
expressed as a system of a few thousand boolean variables with
constraints in 3-conjunctive normal form, was not too far from the
size and complexity of problems that could be directly solved by
bleeding edge combinatorial algorithms, albeit with signficant CPU and
memory consumption.
 
We thought this would be an interesting result, and generated a number
of problems of various numbers of DES rounds based on the DES
Challenge data, and some not particularly optimized S-Box
representations, and set about the task of solving them, smaller
problems first.  We wrote a lot of code, learned a lot about arbitrary
systems of boolean variables, and after breaking 2-round and 4-round
problems, the first almost instantly, and the second with very
reasonable amounts of resources, set about the task of seeing if we
could break the higher round problems, and immortalize ourselves by
beating DESCHALL to the key.
 
To our very great regret, we did not manage to do this, and once the
$10k prize was claimed, we figured the game was over and returned to
working on other things.  We still thought DES was a problem of
approximately the right size to demonstrate the existence of an
analytical solution which would beat a well-tuned exhaustive search on
a problem of practical interest.
 
Since that time, DES has been broken twice more by exhaustive search,
once by distributed.net, and again by a hardware DES cracking machine
designed by Net legend John Gilmore and the EFF for a non-trivial
amount of money.
 
Remarkably, although most agree DES is dead for new applications, with
Moore's Law and additional hardware crackers being possible today for
much less than the cost of the prototype, it still seems to enjoy a
reputation amongst the public as a cipher that takes 20,000 pentiums
running for half a month or a hardware box with $100k of chips running
for several days to break, neither of which seems to have thrown the
Fear of God into its current users, most notably the Banking Industry.
 
With other analytic attacks like differential and linear cryptanalysis
being really practical only for reduced round DES, and all current
high-profile cracks on production ciphers employing key trial, the
press has latched onto keysize as a synonym for strength, and has made
numerous statements which have reinforced this questionable paradigm
in the minds of the public.
 
We have therefore been taking another look at our idea of a
combinatorial crack of DES, and decided that even with DES having been
cracked three times by key trial, it is definitely a project worth
doing.  This time, rather than working frantically in an unsuccessful
attempt to beat other teams on a public challenge, we wish to finish
up our original efforts, and repeat the three cracks previously done,
this time using our algorithms, and distribute working code
continuously as the project progresses, to sponsors who have donated
some money to defray our costs.  This will offer people the
opportunity to participate vicariously in a fun project which has the
potential to be a genuine paradigm shift in the way the world thinks
about codebreaking.
 
Sometimes, promising areas of research are not followed because of
knowlege of some well-known result which suggests that such
exploration will be unfruitful.  Years ago, for instance, suggestions
that programs could be checked by software for proper behavior, and
run without using protected memory regions, were usually met with
snide comments about the "computer halting problem" and various
adjunct results.  Today, there are many variants of "safe execution"
technology, from prove and carry schemes, to Java bytecode, with a
sound theoretical basis behind them.  None of these is a violation of
the "computer halting problem" results, of course.
 
Similarly, after a large burst of activity decades ago, which resulted
in the notion of NP-Completeness, and various results in computational
complexity theory, suggestions that an analytic solution exists for
some large combinatorial problem of practical interest conjure up
visions of exponential resource utilization, speaker cluenessless, and
the lack of progress on NP=P.
 
For this reason, we feel this project is definitely a Schnelling
Point.  If it works, even badly, people will begin to look at lots of
problems in ways they would not have considered before, and much new
code which improves upon what we have done will be created.  This will
be an irreversible change in the Order of Things.
 
In the several days since we put up our FAQ, we have gotten quite a
few comments, and some concerns.
 
The comments have mostly been along the lines that it is an
interesting, even intriguing project.  The concerns are generally that
we will experience an unexpected "combinatoric explosion" in the
higher round problems, and that no one in their right mind would send
money to a nym, because it might just vanish and be used by the nym to
live in perpetual ecstasy in some place warm and tropical, without the
possiblility of the nym being sued for fraud.
 
We hope the close coupling between the sponsors and the project
members will eliminate this latter concern, with weekly progress
reports and working code being distributed to permit the sponsors to
reproduce our results as they occur.  If three people are willing to
sponsor and give us the go-ahead to begin, without wanting their money
back if other sponsors do not join, we can probably get through the
minimal S-Box representations and their proof-of-correctness as well
as some cleaned up code for the 2-round problem.  Hopefully we will
then have a reputation with these people which will encourage others
to join in the effort.
 
Clearly, we're after speculative capital, rather than widow and orphan
money, and hope a few of the wealthy older retired (and perhaps even
crusty) engineer types might find this a productive thing to support.
After all, if you've just blown $220,000 on a DES Cracker, making it
$220,500 and getting your very own Schnelling Point in return is
probably a reasonable amount of fun for your money.
 
I'll stop ranting now. :)

--
Sponsor the DES Analytic Crack Project
http://www.cyberspace.org/~enoch/crakfaq.html
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: attila 
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 19:45:59 +0800
To: "Lynne L. Harrison" 
Subject: Re: Clinton--Why I am Chortling (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980914122452.0086a750@pop.mhv.net>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



,,,...On Mon, 14 Sep 1998, Lynne L. Harrison wrote:

>
>I don't see a power imbalance here.  If a young woman in her 20's
>invitingly flashes her thong panties at a man, I don't see how she can be
>portrayed as the victim.  The only way that the issue of power arises is
>that Monica was not overwhelmed by someone in power - she was attracted to
>the power.
>
    I suspect _you_ can handle the power imbalance. Monica is not exactly
    what I would call a collected, stable example of the female species.

    she was scrambled from her parents divorce, was anxious to be both
    liked and approved, and she told the high school teacher she had
    been babysitter for _and_ rolling (sounds like a Kennedy doesn't it)
    that she was in Washington earning her "knee pads" with Clinton.  

    now, that's an unstable freak who is attracted to father figures 
    (Electra complex, if you will) and absolute power over her.

    I dont think as a woman you can understand the fear a male boss
    feels; even if there is a genuine love interest, you crap in your
    own hat, it will be served up to you some day. or as it is sometimes
    stated: "...dont get your meat where you earn your bread...."

    it doesnt matter whether Monica hiked her dress, or Clinton dropped
    his trou (which is more likely given his track record)

    even if Monica was "a willing, consenting adult", any man in a
    position of power who takes advantage of a star-struck female
    30 years his junior is guilty of an abuse of power (personal) and
    in this case using the position of "The President of the United
    States" as his instrument of power --end of story.
    
    to be a "consensual act", the woman certainly needs to not be
    an emotional disaster --and not be preyed upon by a raging
    psychopath who has no more common sense than a drunken fraternity
    brat who says: "Hi, my name is Bill Clinton, let's fuck!"

>On another but connected note, explain why Monica saved that dress!  I
>found this little tidbit to be the "yuck" factor...
>
    she's sick...  simple as that. apparently she was not exactly
    monogamous; 

    probably saved used prophylactics from the rest of them. 
>
>
    note one of her last snivels to Clinton was that she wanted 
    to do the "horizontal bop" --just once. 

    the whole thing is sick.

    stupid Americans only vote with their wallet.

    the American bread and circus mentality does not care... 

    if the economy had already fallen, they would howl Clinton out of
    office faster than a school principal accused by some mother who 
    misunderstood her 5 year old.

    however, leave the scurrilous bag of camel dung in office; the
    government bogged down and consumed with its own evil is a 
    government which is too preoccupied to maximize the damage they
    are doing to the country and the world. maybe they will leave
    us alone.

    like I said before: leave Clinton alone --Al Bore is worse; and,
    I'll even put up with the bitch over Tipper.

__________________________________________________________________________

    To be a ruler of men, you need at least 12 inches....
_________________________________________________________________ attila__











From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: attila 
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 19:50:28 +0800
To: cypherpunks 
Subject: Clinton still doesnt get it
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




    25 years of Clinton's raging pscyhopathic, oversexed behavior:
    Hillary has been a willing partner.

    nothing but control freaques and obscene power trippers. there
    is only amorality in that house --and power by any means.

New York Times
September 13, 1998 
IN AMERICA/By BOB HERBERT 
Still Doesn't Get It 

David Maraniss, in his biography of Bill Clinton, "First in His Class," 
writes about an "intense relationship" that Mr. Clinton had with a 
young woman who had volunteered to work in his first campaign for 
public office. Mr. Clinton was running for Congress and the woman was a 
student at the University of Arkansas. 

A campaign aide, quoted in the book, said, "The staff tried to ignore it as 
long as it didn't interfere with the campaign." But it did interfere, because 
Mr. Clinton was also intensely involved with Hillary Rodham. 

Mr. Maraniss writes: "The tension at campaign headquarters increased 
considerably when Rodham arrived as people there tried to deal with the 
situation. Both women seemed on edge. The Arkansas girlfriend would ask 
people about Hillary: what she was like, and whether Clinton was going to 
marry her. When she was at headquarters, someone would sneak her out 
the back door if Rodham was spotted pulling into the driveway." 

It was all there more than two decades ago at the very beginning of Bill 
Clinton's political journey: the thoughtlessness, the recklessness, the 
wanton use of friends and associates to cover up his ugly behavior, the 
willingness to jeopardize the hopes and dreams of people who were 
working for him and trusted him, the betrayal of those closest to him. 

There is nothing new in Kenneth Starr's report, just confirmation in 
extreme and at times lurid detail of the type of person Mr. Clinton has 
always been. 

In 1992, when he was running for President and people across the nation 
were investing their time, money and even their careers in him, he 
rewarded them with the Gennifer Flowers scandal. He carried his 
psychodrama onto national television when he went on "60 Minutes" and, 
with Mrs. Clinton at his side, called Ms. Flowers a liar. 

He told Steve Kroft and 30 million viewers: "It was only when money came 
up, when the tabloid went down there offering people money to say that 
they had been involved with me, that she changed her story. There's a 
recession on, times are tough, and I think you can expect more and more 
of these stories as long as they're down there handing out money." 

In other words, it was the economy, stupid. 

But even as he was denying that he had had a sexual relationship with 
Gennifer Flowers, Mr. Clinton was going out of his way on "60 Minutes" to 
convey to the public that he had learned a lesson, that he had matured 
and that his irresponsible behavior would not be a problem if he were 
elected President. 

"I have absolutely leveled with the American people," he said. 

In fact, his comments were about as level as the Himalayas. We now know 
that he was willing to risk everything, his family, his Presidency, the 
welfare of the nation, on a dangerous fling with a White House intern. For 
him, it must have been great fun. He got to play so many people for fools. 
He got to chat on the phone with Congressmen while engaging in sex. He 
got to play hide and seek with the Secret Service. 

Very mature behavior. 

Now the Clinton psychodrama has much of the Government paralyzed 
and the Democratic Party in a state of panic. But Mr. Clinton still doesn't 
get it. On Thursday he met with the members of his Cabinet, who had 
been duped and lied to like so many others. He went into his emotional 
routine and said he was oh-so-sorry, etc. He begged for forgiveness. 

But he got upset when the Secretary of Health and Human Services, 
Donna Shalala, said that she was appalled by his behavior. Ms. Shalala 
complained that the President seemed to believe that pursuing his 
policies and programs was more important than providing moral 
leadership. 

A story in The Washington Post said Mr. Clinton responded sharply to Ms. 
Shalala, rebuking her. My understanding is that his response was critical 
but not harsh. Either way, it's clear that Mr. Clinton has not learned the 
requisite lessons. He lied to Ms. Shalala months ago and sent her out to lie 
to the public, and now he's criticizing her. The President is not sorry. He's 
apologizing because there's a gun at his head. He's not changing what he 
now describes as his sinful ways. He's trying to manipulate public opinion 
so he can survive to sin again. The psychodrama remains as long as he 
remains. 

There are no surprises here. With Bill Clinton, it was ever thus. 






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: HyperReal-Anon 
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 19:51:21 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Hi!
Message-ID: <1de8e2f402710b06525c5f67b59f70bb@anonymous>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Mon, 14 Sep 1998 harald.fragner@idg.se wrote:

> 
> Do I know you?
> 
> Harald
> 
> ------------------
> Harald Fragner
> IT-avdelningen, IDG
> Tel: 08-453 60 10
> Fax: 08-453 60 05
> Email: harald.fragner@idg.se
> 
> 

No, but we know you! You're a very evil man, Mr. Fragner, at least by the
standards of the Hired Government Ninjas. Under our standards, everyone is
evil...except government leaders.

Expect black helicopters to be targetting your house in the next few days. 
Do not be surprised if unguided rockets are shot into it. If ninjas are
coming through your windows at 2AM, just remember: We're from the
government and we're here to help you. Just bend over and grip the towel
rack.

Your phone will be ringing off the hook in the middle of the night for the
next two or three years. 

Oh, wait, maybe I'm looking into the future again. I really must stop
doing that. That's the bad part about being involved with the Hired
Government Ninjas. We mysteriously know how people will be harassed before
it happens. Imagine that. 

Sincerely,

Hired Government Ninjas, Inc.
Remember, our motto is: "Do what we say, that's the way we kick it."





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: attila 
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 19:56:02 +0800
To: cypherpunks 
Subject: a few facts on Presidential peccadillos (fwd)
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




    power trippers attract willing victims.

    enjoy...
__________________________________________________________________________

1. Which president smoked marijuana with a nude playgirl while he joked
about being too wasted to "push the button" in case of nuclear attack?

2. Which president allegedly had affairs with both a winner AND a
finalist in the Miss America pageant?

3. Which president had sex with one of his secretaries stretched out
atop a desk in the oval office?

4. Which president allegedly had an affair (as well as children) with a
slave who was his wife's half sister?

5. Which president called his mistress "Pookie"?

6. Which president married a woman who hadn't yet divorced her first
husband, and was branded an "adulterer" during his re-election campaign?

7. Which future president wrote love letters to his neighbor's wife
while he was engaged to someone else?

8. Which president had a torrid affair with the first lady's personal
secretary?

9. Which president had sex with a young woman in a White House coat
closet - at one point, while a secret service agent prevented the
hysterical first lady from attacking them?

10. Which president had sex in a closet while telling his partner about
the *other* president who did the same in a closet? (The one from
Question 9)?

11. Which vice president was ticked off because he felt that HIS record
of sexual conquests was much more "impressive" (i.e. numerous) than the
President's?

12. Which future president, while a college student, enjoyed showing off
his penis (which he named Jumbo)?


ANSWERS

1.  John F. Kennedy
2.  Bill Clinton
3.  Lyndon B. Johnson
4.  Thomas Jefferson
5.  Bill Clinton
6.  Andrew Jackson
7.  Lyndon B. Johnson
8.  Franklin D. Roosevelt, John F. Kennedy
9.  Warren G. Harding
10. John F. Kennedy
11. Lyndon B. Johnson
12. Lyndon B. Johnson





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 21:35:53 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Larry Gilbert, AOLers, and the Hyper-real flamer
Message-ID: <199809150228.EAA19097@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Mon, 14 Sep 1998, Paul H. Merrill wrote:

> 
> I love this to death.  Some asshole sends crap data to sixdegrees
> including dredged up real email addresses, then when sixdegrees and the
> contacts given react in a totally appropriate manner other (?) assholes
> berate them for living.  And this one even manages to toss in an
> anti-AOL rant where AOL plays no part.
> 
> Such witticisms I haven't seen since my kids turned 7.
> 
> PHM

I know of several people in addition to myself who have complained to
Sixdegrees about this. I've personally given up sending complaints back to
them, and I lost count at 5. Sixdegrees simply ignores them. I've sent
them to their upstream sites, and they either ignore them or tell me that
they've forwarded them to Sixdegrees. My complaints, at least, were very
civil. One explained exactly what a mailing list was, for crying out loud. 
I can't speak for Hyper-real's (if he sent any) and the others. You may be
able to use that defense if Sixdegrees didn't know, but they do. 

Sixdegrees could avoid these problems very easily by adding a domain
verification so that somebody from Netcom can't specify some address at
toad.com and have it work. They haven't. They haven't because they don't
care. Saying that some sites have screwed up rDNS and mail domains isn't a
valid excuse. They can insert exemptions for Hotmail, MSN, Juno, and other
sites like that if they want. Oh, maybe they have a "phobia" of this, just
like AOLers apparently have a "phobia" of even making an attempt to use
English properly, so it's okay. 

I don't think the parallel between the AOL users spamming the list and
organizations like Sixdegrees spamming the list is that uncalled for
either. Maybe you find any drawing of parallels offensive, Paul, and maybe
you'll denounce it as "propoganda" because I might use an example in this
message, and maybe you just really like AOL and think its cluelessness and
broken software is the best thing since sliced bread, but that doesn't
change the fact that Sixdegrees and friends are doing the same thing AOL
is and that it's abuse of the network. They fire a salvo, and somebody
else fires one back at their expense.

By this logic, I'd next expect to read a claim that since the AOLers are
getting the Cypherpunks address from somewhere, we should welcome their
requests for band stickers and things like "how u do that." After all,
they're the victims, and are probably the kind of people who go to look up
the word "gullible" when somebody tells them it isn't in the dictionary.

It's a long-established tradition to flame people like this. Some flames
are better than others. Maybe if the Hyper-real user insults them enough
they'll finally add Cypherpunks to their block list. 

I've personally grown real sick of seeing bullshit passwords, welcome
messages, new password messages, updates, and other junk on this list from
sites which don't bother to verify domain names. I can give them that, but
I start to get pissed when they refuse to block the address. For that
reason I don't mind the person or persons who are flaming these idiots and
in fact, like Mr. May, I cheer them on. Personally, I *WANT* them to pour
nitric acid into their computers to destroy them, so they get the hell off
the net. 

Maybe they're scared of block lists. After all, they're similar to kill
files which we all know are lists of people who need killing and since
murder is illegal and immoral kill files must be too.

Paul, maybe you don't mind somebody pouring grass killer on your lawn if
they were submitted your address over the phone and made an "honest"
mistake and fell victim to a prank, but I mind if they do it to mine,
particularly since all they have to do is perform cursory checks to
realize it's suspect. Oops, I made an example using a different subject
matter. We're in the "blatant propoganda" stage now, I suppose. 

Now, since you're all for niceness in the world, you can go jump on Tim
since he's doing this too.

  From: Tim May 
  To: Well now I am a Mommy! , cypherpunks@toad.com
  Subject: Re: sixdegrees

  At 6:27 PM -0700 9/13/98, Well now I am a Mommy! wrote:
  >hi,
  >
  >I see you added me as a friend..... just wondering who you are.  :)
  >
  >Christy
  >

  Hi Christy,

  Got your name from the Stalker's R Us group. Please post more details
  about your personal fantasies. Send us nude pictures, too. 

  You say you're a Mommy. Hope there are no stretch marks.

  Oh, and your children can join our group too. Got any photos?

  --Tim May

And:

  From: Tim May 
  Subject: Re: News for class

  At 5:58 AM -0700 8/30/98, sboyd wrote:
  >Please inform me how I can get the news each day by e-mail at
  >flashboyd@aol.com.  This information will be used in my comm class.


  Hey, "flashboyd@aol.com," why are you asking _us_?

  According to AOL, "AOL _is_ the Internet."

  (Personally, I'm cheered by the news that a net.stalker is tracking down
  clueless AOLers and Webbers and eviscerating them.)

  --Tim May

SignalMonger




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "James A. Donald" 
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 08:42:13 +0800
To: "Lynne L. Harrison" 
Message-ID: <199809151339.GAA02542@proxy4.ba.best.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



    --
At 12:24 PM 9/14/98 -0400, Lynne L. Harrison wrote:
> I don't see a power imbalance here.  If a young woman in 
> her 20's invitingly flashes her thong panties at a man, I 
> don't see how she can be portrayed as the victim.  

According to the law applied to normal people, Monica was the
victim.  Also according to the law applied to normal people,
Clinton was required to spill his guts about all of his sex
life, because some women sued him, whereas the women suing
was completely protected against any questions concerning her
sex life.

These laws are flagrantly unjust, but the Democrats introduced
them and applied them.  Feminists supported and continue to
support Clinton precisely because he supported and supports
laws that he flagrantly broke.  If these laws are to be
repealed for politicians, they should be repealed for normal
people as well.

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     Bx5t8xgN8K1uoUuifbh23snXHu5I2qNBvzwQk6pb
     4qwHCwWse7ErTTfZyYyUUnpKfLU8yjt0ak2jmSKBA
-----------------------------------------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because 
of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this 
right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.


http://www.jim.com/jamesd/      James A. Donald




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 06:30:26 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Critics Pick Apart Study on Internet and Depression
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Delivered-To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
X-Sender: believer@telepath.com
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 21:18:32 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com
From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Critics Pick Apart Study on Internet and Depression
Mime-Version: 1.0
Sender: owner-ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
Precedence: list
Reply-To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  New York Times
http://www.nytimes.com/library/tech/98/09/biztech/articles/14digicom.html

September 14, 1998

TECHNOLOGY COLUMN

Critics Pick Apart Study on Internet and Depression

By DENISE CARUSO

Robert Kraut, co-author of a new study linking depression with Internet
use, sounded a bit depressed himself last week.

"I thought I was finished with this," Kraut, a professor of social
psychology and human-computer interaction at Carnegie Mellon University,
said with a sigh. He was alluding to the flood of attention -- and
criticism -- that his study, titled "Home Net," had received since it was
published two weeks ago.

Starting in 1995, "Home Net" researchers gave PCs and free Internet
accounts to 169 people in 73 families in the Pittsburgh area. After
monitoring their online behavior, in some cases for more than two years,
the researchers concluded that spending time on the Internet was associated
with statistically significant increases in depression and loneliness.

Critics assert that the study has fatal flaws that neutralize its findings
and that they are appalled at the authors' far-reaching conclusions about
the impact the findings might have on Internet policy and technology
development.

Donna Hoffman, a Vanderbilt University professor and outspoken critic of
Internet research design, was unequivocal about the "Home Net" study.

"Speaking as an editor, if this had crossed my desk, I would have rejected
it," said Ms. Hoffman, who edits the journal Marketing Science. "The
mistakes are so bad that they render the results fairly close to
meaningless."

Among those mistakes, she said, were the absence of two standard
safeguards: a control group and random selection of subjects.

"With 'Home Net,' we don't know for sure what led to their results," Ms.
Hoffman said of the lack of a control group, "because we don't know what
happened to people who weren't using the Internet."

In addition, the study recruited people from high schools and community
service organizations, instead of selecting people randomly from a large
area. Random selection is crucial to building a truly representative sample
of a population -- in this case, residents of the United States.

The study found that one hour a week online led to small but measurable
increases in depression and loneliness and loss of friendships. While those
measurements might well be statistically significant, critics assert that
without a random sample, they are meaningless outside the group that was
studied.

"The assertions have no statistical relevance to any population of Internet
users beyond those in the study population -- even in principle," declared
Charles Brownstein, a former director at the National Science Foundation,
now an executive director at the Corporation for National Research
Initiatives in Reston, Va.

Although research studies do not always have to use control groups or
randomly chosen participants to be valid, Ms. Hoffman said, those
safeguards become imperative "when you're doing a study that claims causal
relationships and that these relationships hold in the larger population."

The "Home Net" team clearly made such claims. For example, the news release
stated that "Carnegie Mellon Study Reveals Negative Potential of Heavy
Internet Use on Emotional Well Being," and even suggested that
parents move PCs out of teen-agers' bedrooms and into shared family rooms.

Kraut was quoted extensively in the release, with such statements as, "We
were surprised to find that what is a social technology has such
anti-social consequences." Also: "Our results have clear implications for
further research on personal Internet use. As we understand the reasons for
the declines in social involvement, there will be implications for social
policies and for the design of Internet technology."

Last week, Kraut wearily defended his study. "In 1995, we did start with a
control group, but it was very hard to keep it, with little in the way of
incentives for them to continue to fill out questionnaires," he said. "And
we couldn't use a random sample because of the nature of the study's design
-- we wanted to be able to include groups who already had social
connections with each other so we could observe some shifting, if it was
going to occur, between existing social relationships."

And despite criticism of the researchers' methods, he said that the study
was widely applicable.

"We have changes big enough that they aren't likely to have occurred on the
basis of chance," Kraut said. "There is something here to explain."

But critics like Ms. Hoffman look askance at such results, given her
experience debunking other Internet studies, including one from Neilsen
Media Research in which she participated in 1996 and another in 1995 in
which Marty Rimm, a graduate student in Carnegie Mellon's College of
Engineering, published a study purporting to show that the Internet was
overrun with pornography.

The impact of Rimm's study, though based on false premises and quickly
discredited, was profound. The resulting furor in the media and in Congress
helped bring about the Communications Decency Act, which the Supreme Court
ruled was a violation of the First Amendment.  Critics fear that the "Home
Net" study might end up having a similar effect.

"It's easy to imagine the results of this study being used to influence
policy decisions about Internet access, especially in controversial funding
decisions for schools and libraries," Ms. Hoffman said.

But in the end, Ms. Hoffman said, protecting the Internet itself is not the
point.

"We're trying to protect the standard of research," she said. "This isn't
obscure ivory-tower stuff that never sees the light of day. It has an
impact on people's lives. If we're going to the trouble to study the
Internet, at least we should make sure we're doing it right."

 Copyright 1998 The New York Times Company
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




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--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Edwin E. Smith" 
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 07:21:11 +0800
To: TM 
Subject: Re: Joe Farah 9/14 (Pppbbbttt)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19980914230008.007fb830@mailhost.IntNet.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980915080355.007f52a0@mailhost.IntNet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Thank you for your comments. Now you can go back to reading Marx.

Edwin
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0
Charset: noconv

iQA/AwUBNf5XqkmNf6b56PAtEQKlXwCfQX0DbpcjXrXl9UkxAIASKkfoAd8AoKRm
2rlzasDKGgnw+GiE2Cy1HuC+
=iz6y
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


When freedom is outlawed.......Only outlaws will be free!

If cryptography is outlawed, pomz pvumbxt xjmm ibwf dszquphsbqiz.

Fun! Fast! Revealing! Try "The World's Smallest Political Quiz" at:
   http://www.self-gov.org/quiz.html

IS AIDS A GOVERNMENT/DRUG COMPANY HOAX?
   http://www.virusmyth.com/aids/index.htm

When you blame others, you give up your power to change.
Dr. Robert Anthony

Libertarian Party of Hillsborough County, FL
   http://home.tampabay.rr.com/lphc

When a place gets crowded enough to require ID's, social collapse is not far
away. It is time to go elsewhere. The best thing about space travel is that
it made it possible to go elsewhere.

Lazarus Long




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: AIMSX@aol.com
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 07:16:32 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Larry Gilbert, AOLers, and the Hyper-real flamer
Message-ID: <33ec7cbb.35fe5849@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Obviously you have a very high opinion of yourself and a low opinion of people
who use AOL.  Contrary to popular belief, there are a few intelligent people
on AOL, but it looks as if you are too egotistical to realize that.

Have you ever thought to look at your own mistakes before you publicize
everyone else's to the world?  Are you just suffering from some sort of
dillusion of grandeur - thinking you are better than everyone else.  Things
like this are what many wars were started over, I am so happy the internet
(hopefully) won't start a war in the real world.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 10:46:43 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: DoD on Crypto, Echelon, Secrets
In-Reply-To: <199809150349.XAA28692@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <35FE8B14.FBA@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



John Young wrote:
> 
> We attended Defense Secretary Cohen's talk today at the Council on
> Foreign Relations in New York City on "Security in a Grave World."
> 
> While not included in the prepared text, Secretary Cohen remarked
> in the Q&A on terrorism and encryption policy that Americans will
> have to decide ?how much? privacy they will be willing to give up for
> protection against terrorism...
>
zero




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 11:01:48 +0800
To: Richard.Bragg@ssa.co.uk
Subject: Re: Joe Farah 9/14 (Pppbbbttt)
In-Reply-To: <80256680.003A249A.00@seunt002e.ssa.co.uk>
Message-ID: <35FE8E27.542C@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Richard.Bragg@ssa.co.uk wrote:
> 
> >>Almost 60 percent of those polled said they thought Clinton was fit to be
> >>president. By what standard? That's the trouble. Americans have no
> >>standards -- no unchangeable yardsticks by which they measure right and
> >>wrong, truth from fiction.
> 
> >By *their* standard, by their own personal judgement. There's no moral
> >yardstick, and God help us if there is in the future. Who makes the
> >yardstick? Who sits down and says, "This is the moral standard in this
> >country, abide by it or suffer the consequences"?
> 
> Sorry but there are absolutes and there is a moral yardstick.  Whether this
>  is accepted or not is beside the point.
> 
> There has to be absolutes otherwise any action can be excused (or damned).
>   The real cry should be
> "God help us to instigate Your yardstick".  God doesn't change and neither
> does His measure.
> 
> 1)Love the Lord, with all your heart, with all you soul with all your mind
> and all your strength
> 2)Love you neibour as yourself.
> 
> Everything else hangs on these.
>
BULLSHIT
BULLSHIT
BULLSHIT
Grow Up
You're a customs inspector, what?




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 11:01:29 +0800
To: Terry Leininger 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 10:25 AM -0700 9/15/98, Terry Leininger wrote:
>>You are all writing about Clinton and Monica et al. Dunno what this
>does here
>>but anyway, let me add to the noise:
>
>>Is it possible to download the Starr report somewhere, zipped and
>prepared for
>>offline reading?
>

Don't you mean _unzipped_?


--Tim May

(This space left blank pending determ. of acceptability to the gov't.)
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Sunder 
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 08:24:10 +0800
To: AIMSX@aol.com
Subject: Re: Larry Gilbert, AOLers, and the Hyper-real flamer
In-Reply-To: <33ec7cbb.35fe5849@aol.com>
Message-ID: <35FE67CA.F1CCCB14@brainlink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



AIMSX@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Obviously you have a very high opinion of yourself and a low opinion of people
> who use AOL.  Contrary to popular belief, there are a few intelligent people
> on AOL, but it looks as if you are too egotistical to realize that.
> 
> Have you ever thought to look at your own mistakes before you publicize
> everyone else's to the world?  Are you just suffering from some sort of
> dillusion of grandeur - thinking you are better than everyone else.  Things
> like this are what many wars were started over, I am so happy the internet
> (hopefully) won't start a war in the real world.

Right.  Considering the scum that have drifted on here from AOL, I'd say
there's a distinct pattern.  As an EX-AOL user I can attest to the fact that
AOL is prime grade USRDA shit.  At the time I got nothing but busy signals and
crashes, when I logged back in, I was told I was already logged on and had to
call the customer unsupport people to get credit for my hours used by a ghost
connection.  Further, in the last few weeks I had my account, I received
hundreds of spams, the "You've Got Mail" soundbite caused me to twitch every
time I heard it.

Paying $20/month for shit service with a shit browser and shit connectivity
isn't my idea of a good ISP.  A few weeks after, I found a local ISP that gave
me a shell account for $10/month and I got no busy signals and no bullshit
software and no craploads of downloads of images ("artwork") or fifty ads
popping in my face upon connecting.

So yeah, maybe there are "smart" people on AOL, but they're clueless when it
comes to ISP since they're using the worst of the worst.

I don't speak for that "nobody" but I will speak for myself and will speak from
PERSONAL experience.  Aol is shit.  Anyone who is stupid enough to put up with
shit service is either masochistic or isn't aware they're getting shit service,
no matter how intelligent they may otherwise be.  besides, from the cluless
fuckwads that have indeed drifted here, I'd sooner hug the hotmail users, even
the single celled one who spews about Misty than see an AOL luser's email
address in a post!

If you're so smart, find a local ISP who will give you better service and costs
less.  Shit, if you insist on paying $20/month and $5 hour, tell you what,
switch to a cheaper ISP and send me the extra $5/hour you are now wasting, I
sure could use the money!

Just my $0.02 worth of flames.

-- 

=====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos==============
.+.^.+.|       Sunder       |Prying open my 3rd eye.  So good to see |./|\.
..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were      |/\|/\
<--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run  |\/|\/
../|\..| "A toast to Odin,  |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/.
.+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were....            |.....
======================= http://www.sundernet.com ==========================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Brown, R Ken" 
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 09:43:40 +0800
To: nnburk@cobain.HDC.NET>
Subject: RE: Predictions: Crime and Criminal Justice in the 21st Century
Message-ID: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F8418@MSX11002>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> nnburk[SMTP:nnburk@cobain.HDC.NET] posted 10 predictions
about life in the USA  for the next 10 or 15 years.

They are, of course, nothing but descriptions of what's been going
on for the last  30-40 years. This isn't prediction, it's extrapolation!

As so often the people will always win when playing
"cheat the prophet". Whatever really  happens next year 
the chances are it won't be  exactly the same as what happened 
last year.

Ken 






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "sixdegrees"
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 08:57:40 +0800
To: "Joe Cypherpunk"
Subject: Harald Fragner
Message-ID: <199809151350.GAA08886@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Just a quick update from sixdegrees(tm). Unfortunately Harald 
Fragner (harald@fragner.net) asked not to be listed as your 
contact with sixdegrees.

We also wanted to make sure you were aware that you currently 
have no other confirmed contacts, so it will be hard for you to
have a productive sixdegrees experience. As you probably know, 
without any confirmed contacts, you won't get any results from our 
networking searches. 

So, we just wanted to recommend that you head over to 
http://www.sixdegrees.com , log-in, and go to MY CONTACTS 
to list additional relationships. 


====================================================================
PLEASE NOTE: All replies to this address are processed by a computer.
If you have any problems, questions or requests send an e-mail to 
issues@sixdegrees.com and someone will get back to you as soon as 
possible.
====================================================================


E.DB.BRESP.3




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 09:03:44 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: VP GORE'S CHINA SCANDAL
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Delivered-To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 05:33:46 -0400 (EDT)
To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
From: softwar@us.net (CharlesSmith)
Subject: IP: VP GORE'S CHINA SCANDAL
Sender: owner-ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
Precedence: list
Reply-To: softwar@us.net (CharlesSmith)

http://www.worldnetdaily.com

According to Chinese General Sun Tzu "All war is based on
deception."  Tzu wrote those words over 2,000 years ago and his
first rule of war still applies today.

For example, a hidden November 1994 letter written by DNC donor
Sanford Robertson to President Clinton that clearly details the
sale of Commerce trade trips for campaign donations.  Robertson
was so bold as to include a telling "P.S." where he notes for
Clinton that "Bob Rubin" turned out the "Silicon Valley" at a
Robertson sponsored fundraiser that took in "$100,000" for
California Senator Feinstein.  Of course, neither Robertson nor
current Treasury Secretary Rubin expected that letter to be
revealed.

In November 1995, Vice President Gore called Sanford Robertson
from the White House and asked for a $100,000 donation.  In
January 1996 Robertson obliged and kicked in $80,000 soft and
$20,000 in so-called "hard" donations to the Clinton/Gore
campaign.  The fact that Gore made the call from inside the
White House is the least of his legal problems.

In 1993 Clinton named Gore to head U.S. export policy for
encryption technology in a TOP SECRET order written by National
Security advisor Anthony Lake.  A 1996 secret memo on a secret
meeting of DCIA Deutch, FBI Director Freeh and Attorney General
Janet Reno states "The Vice President chairs the senior group
that set the Administration's encryption policy; since Februarcy
1994 it has been supported by a working group co-chaired by NSC,
and OMB, composed of NSA, CIA, FBI, State, Commerce (BXA, NIST),
and Justice."

In 1995 Sanford Robertson also had a big financial interest in
the U.S. computer security industry.  Robertson's investment
firm had hundreds of millions of dollars tied up in a
Massachusetts based computer company named Security Dynamics
Inc. (SDI).  Thus, in 1995 Gore had direct control of policy
that also affected Robertson financially.

Security Dynamics was able to import computer security hardware
manufactured in China.  SDI secured Hong Kong electronics maker
RJP Industries to produce electronic computer security cards for
sale in America.  The Chinese manufactured cards are sold to
major defense contractors, medical institutions and the U.S.
government.

Hong Kong millionaire Raymond Hung also owns RJP.  Hung
manufactured the security cards in two factories leased directly
from the China National Electronics Import/Export Company
(CNEIEC), a business owned by the People's Liberation Army.
Thus, the computer security cards imported and sold here in the
U.S. were built on a Chinese Army assembly line.

Hung also owned a U.S. based company called Quorum International
that went bankrupt in 1996.  The company left millions in bad
debt in Arizona and California.  Yet, Hung was able to donate
over a million dollars to the Special Olympics, donate a temple
to communist China, and have his photo taken with Arnold
Schwarzenegger all only days before declaring bankruptcy.

Hung is also reported to have set up dozens of shell "front
companies" offshore.  These companies allegedly sell cheap
Chinese products imported by Hung who declares bankruptcy,
citing Chinese taxes on the imports.  Hung, of course, splits
the "taxes" with the Chinese government, and returns to America
to purchase hard assets such as real estate.  Despite all this
Hung remains un-investigated by the Clinton administration.

Hung's close working relationship with China and the Clinton
administration raises another question...  Could there be a
"secret" back door embedded in imported hardware or software,
waiting like a TROJAN HORSE, brought safely inside the secure
walls by a paying customer?  Could a hidden SNIFFER be hunting
down passwords, code keys and sensitive data?

"Absolutely," stated Info-warfare expert Winn Schwartau.  "I
call it 'pro-active' defense - you'll find it referenced in my
original book (Information Warfare)."

"Chips are made of silicon," explained Schwartau.  "If you buy
hardware the only way to tell exactly how it works is with a
destructive test.  You tear the chip apart, layer by layer.
This is not only difficult but expensive.  Can it happen?  Just
look at the multitude of hardware and software products
maintained outside of the United States.  How many of them are
'proprietary' designs that have never been viewed inside the
U.S.?"

"It is possible," agreed Forrest Mimms, a leader in the U.S.
electronics engineering and well-known author.  Mimms is best
known to electronics hobbyists worldwide for his series of books
that populate Radio Shack.

"I would not be surprised to find a back door put in by the
Chinese government," stated Mimms.  "Go to Wal-Mart and you'll
find hundreds of commercial electronics products made by Chinese
government factories.  In fact, I would not be surprised to find
a back door put in by an independent [rouge or criminal]
operation."

"Yes.  It is always possible to slip a Trojan horse into
cryptography products, both hardware and software," stated Bruce
Schneier, President of Counterpane Systems and author of the
best selling book on computer security APPLIED CRYPTOGRAPHY.

"Unless the user takes the time to reverse-engineer the product
- - much easier to do in software than in hardware - - he is
essentially trusting that the manufacturer is behaving
honestly," stated Schneier.  "The NSA has been rumored to have
convinced several cryptography hardware companies world-wide to
install Trojan horses that effectively 'leak' secrets as the
hardware is used."

The Chinese Army, Sanford Robertson, Al Gore and Ron Brown
shared an interest in computer security technology.  California
based RSA Inc. is the only U.S. company that has ever been able
to secure any export deal on encryption with China.
Documentation held by the Commerce Department and taken by
former DNC fundraiser Ira Sockowitz shows that RSA was able to
obtain a trade deal with the Chinese government through a
Commerce sponsored trade conference to Beijing in October 1995.
In fact, both the Chairman of RSA, Jim Bidzos, and Ron Brown met
in October of 1995 with Madam Wu Yi, head of China's MOFTEC
(Ministry of Foreign Trade and Economic Cooperation).

Al Gore also had previous legal contact with RSA Inc. in 1994.
According RSA CEO James Bidzos, in March 1994 Gore sent
government lawyers to RSA in a failed effort to purchase patents
on encryption technology held by his company.  Curiously, the
envoy Gore selected to send was John Huang's boss, Commerce
Counsel Ginger Lew.  Even more curious is the fact that Lew
claimed to know nothing about encryption in her deposition for
Judicial Watch.

Her lack of computer security knowledge is puzzling because Lew
also possessed a 1994 document detailing penetrations of U.S.
government computers using "back-door" and "SNIFFER" programs
installed by unknown hackers.  The document was returned in
response to a Freedom of Information Request.  Ms. Lew currently
works at the Small Business Administration and has refused my
request for an interview.

In February 1996, only days after Robertson had kicked in his
$100,000 to the Clinton/Gore campaign, RSA announced the China
encryption export deal.  In April 1996, Robertson's Security
Dynamics Inc. bought RSA for $296 million above the stock value.
Robertson's investment firm was paid $2 million just to write
the merger document.  Thus, Robertson financially benefited from
the same company that Gore had previously engaged in secret
government negotiations.  Robertson gained $2 million for a
$100,000 investment in less than 90 days.

How deeply involved was Robertson with party officials?
Perhaps, the real question is which party?  Democrat or
Communist?  In an April 1994 letter Robertson reminded Brown of
scheduled money-raising events for the DNC and of his efforts
for DNC candidates.  "P.S." Robertson wrote to Brown.  "It has
been fund raising season out here for the Senate and we've had
events at our home for Feinstein, Lieberman, and Cooper.  I wish
you were still head of the DNC for the December elections, but
you are obviously doing a great job at Commerce."

In the same letter Robertson also noted his influence in the
Chinese communist party.  In April 1994 Robertson informed
Brown of his successful effort to hire the son of a major
Chinese Communist leader.  "We have recently hired Bo Feng the
son of Feng Zhijun the vice chairman of the China Democratic
League and a member of the Standing Committee of the National
People's Congress."

On August 18, 1998 this author filed suit in Federal Court
against the Clinton administration for illegally withholding
documents.  The documents in question were discovered at the
Commerce Department in response to a Freedom of Information
Request on Loral CEO Bernard Schwartz and DNC donor Sanford
Robertson.

At first, the Commerce Department refused to release the "22"
documents because they were being withheld by unspecified "other
agencies" for "consultation".  On May 18, 1998 the Commerce
Department released one of the 22 documents.  The single
document returned was the bio of W. Bowman Cutter, Deputy
Assistant to the President for Economic Policy, written by the
White House.

"Bo" Cutter, "Bob" Rubin, Al Gore and Ron Brown were all tasked
to encryption export policy in the 1993 Top Secret order from
Bill Clinton written by Tony Lake.  Bo, Bob, Al and Ron were
part of the encryption task force detailed in the 1996
CIA/FBI/DOJ meeting.  "Bo" Cutter's boss, now Treasury Secretary
"Bob" Rubin, raised the 1994 $100,000 from Sanford Robertson
while working inside the White House - just like Al Gore in
1995.  All of these fine gentlemen were also making secret
export policy... including Sanford Robertson.

In addition, according to the Commerce Department FOIA officer,
the remaining 21 documents were being withheld by the White
House.  However, the White House is NOT an agency.  My source on
this legal "Catch-22" is the White House legal counsel for Vice
President Al Gore.  In response to a 1997 FOIA request Vice
President Gore's Deputy Counsel Elizabeth Brown wrote "Please be
advised that FOIA applies to only records maintained by
'agencies' with in the Executive Branch.  The Office of the
President and the Vice President ... are not 'agencies' for the
purposes of this law.  Therefore, your request must be denied."

The Clinton administration caved instead of facing embarrassment
in court.  The remaining documents withheld by the White House
have been released.

Both Bernard Schwartz and Sanford Robertson were given the
detailed dossiers of the Chinese leadership from President Jiang
Zemin, and MOFTEC's Madam Wu Yi - down to the local communist
mayor of Shanghi.  The new documents include information on such
communist officials as Hu Qili - Minister of Electronics
Industry - a former radical Red Guard member of the Chinese
Youth movement.  According to the hidden documents, Qili argues
"that military electronics are a key technology necessary for
winning modern warfare."

According to Sun Tzu, all war is based on deception.  War,
according to Von Clausewitz, is also merely an extension of
politics.  The war of Clinton deception continues to this day.
The administration and its agencies are continuing to withhold
documents from this author, the House National Security
Committee, and the House Government Oversight Committee.  The
White House is engaged in a cover-up of illegal activities.
Evidence hidden in a deliberate and planned scheme to conceal
crimes by officials currently in power.

==============================================================
source documents * = new

- Robertson letters to Brown & Clinton

http://www.softwar.net/rscot.html  <--- text version
http://www.softwar.net/rsco.html   <--- jpeg version

- SECRET 1993 order on encryption by Anthony Lake

http://www.softwar.net/not4u2c.html

- Secret 1996 DCIA Deutch/FBI Freeh /AG Reno meeting

http://www.softwar.net/docciat.html  <--- text version
http://www.softwar.net/doccia.html   <--- jpeg version

- * Snips from the SEC - official RSA/SDI merger document
RJP, China, MFN treaty & $2,000,000 payment to Robertson
& Stephens for writing merger document.

http://www.softwar.net/sdi.html

- * Raymond Hung with Arnie, wife with $1,000,000 check, wife
with Shriver, temple donated to PRC and article ref.

http://www.softwar.net/quorum.html

- Interview of RSA CEO James Bidzos

http://www.softwar.net/bidzos.html

- * Documents held by Ginger Lew on back-doors and sniffers

http://www.softwar.net/lew.html

- * Documents on encryption written by Al Gore & 1997 FOIA
rejection by Gore's legal counsel

http://www.softwar.net/al2000.html

http://www.softwar.net/gore.html

http://www.softwar.net/vp.html

- * Ron at CHINA WORLD - Oct. 1995 JCCT meeting with Wu Yi

http://www.softwar.net/ron.html

- * White House Bio of "Bo" Cutter

http://www.softwar.net/boknows.html

- * snips from White House documents & SOFTWAR action, bios
of Jiang Zemin, Wu Yi, Hu Qili, and Huang Ju (mayor of Shanghi)

http://www.softwar.net/white.html

================================================================
1 if by land, 2 if by sea.  Paul Revere - encryption 1775
Charles R. Smith
SOFTWAR         http://www.softwar.net      softwar@softwar.net
Pcyphered SIGNATURE:
5A7061066259AAE7F805238B655FF97BB1EAE42FB1C6F167AFD9964D21E2BD4A
BABA05AC8A30EFA7B576D199F6F01DEA3460074026CD09F27A36919487341214
57401400416BC39E
================================================================
SOFTWAR EMAIL NEWSLETTER                            09/15/1998
***  to unsubscribe reply with "unsubscribe" as subject    ***
================================================================






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To subscribe or unsubscribe, email:
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--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Duncan Frissell 
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 09:36:02 +0800
To: Bill Stewart 
Message-ID: <199809151435.KAA25939@mail1.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 12:14 AM 9/15/98 -0700, Bill Stewart wrote:

>Ira Magaziner, President Clinton's senior Internet advisor, has proposed a 
>new plan for tracking and taxing goods sold over the Internet that would use 
>electronic "resident cards" and private-sector escrow agents around the 
>world. Consumers would obtain digital cash at banks that would allow 
>merchants to identify which country the buyer is in, 

And I thought "Monica was having sex with Clinton but Clinton wasn't having
sex with Monica" was the best the joke  meisters at the White House could
come up with.

Does Ira say how the OECD countries were going to mandate a monopoly
payment system?  Seems to me the number of payment systems is rising
towards infinity rather than falling towards unity.

The Ottawa conference is going to be a laugh riot.

DCF





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Eric Cordian 
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 10:21:46 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: The DES Analytic Crack Project
Message-ID: <199809151523.KAA13785@wire.insync.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



As some of you may have noticed, a new attempt to crack the Data
Encryption Standard has been started, with a descriptive FAQ located
at the following URL
 
        http://www.cyberspace.org/~enoch/crakfaq.html
 
A while back, after the first DES challenge was announced, a number of
us made the observation that a known plaintext attack on DES,
expressed as a system of a few thousand boolean variables with
constraints in 3-conjunctive normal form, was not too far from the
size and complexity of problems that could be directly solved by
bleeding edge combinatorial algorithms, albeit with signficant CPU and
memory consumption.
 
We thought this would be an interesting result, and generated a number
of problems of various numbers of DES rounds based on the DES
Challenge data, and some not particularly optimized S-Box
representations, and set about the task of solving them, smaller
problems first.  We wrote a lot of code, learned a lot about arbitrary
systems of boolean variables, and after breaking 2-round and 4-round
problems, the first almost instantly, and the second with very
reasonable amounts of resources, set about the task of seeing if we
could break the higher round problems, and immortalize ourselves by
beating DESCHALL to the key.
 
To our very great regret, we did not manage to do this, and once the
$10k prize was claimed, we figured the game was over and returned to
working on other things.  We still thought DES was a problem of
approximately the right size to demonstrate the existence of an
analytical solution which would beat a well-tuned exhaustive search on
a problem of practical interest.
 
Since that time, DES has been broken twice more by exhaustive search,
once by distributed.net, and again by a hardware DES cracking machine
designed by Net legend John Gilmore and the EFF for a non-trivial
amount of money.
 
Remarkably, although most agree DES is dead for new applications, with
Moore's Law and additional hardware crackers being possible today for
much less than the cost of the prototype, it still seems to enjoy a
reputation amongst the public as a cipher that takes 20,000 pentiums
running for half a month or a hardware box with $100k of chips running
for several days to break, neither of which seems to have thrown the
Fear of God into its current users, most notably the Banking Industry.
 
With other analytic attacks like differential and linear cryptanalysis
being really practical only for reduced round DES, and all current
high-profile cracks on production ciphers employing key trial, the
press has latched onto keysize as a synonym for strength, and has made
numerous statements which have reinforced this questionable paradigm
in the minds of the public.
 
We have therefore been taking another look at our idea of a
combinatorial crack of DES, and decided that even with DES having been
cracked three times by key trial, it is definitely a project worth
doing.  This time, rather than working frantically in an unsuccessful
attempt to beat other teams on a public challenge, we wish to finish
up our original efforts, and repeat the three cracks previously done,
this time using our algorithms, and distribute working code
continuously as the project progresses, to sponsors who have donated
some money to defray our costs.  This will offer people the
opportunity to participate vicariously in a fun project which has the
potential to be a genuine paradigm shift in the way the world thinks
about codebreaking.
 
Sometimes, promising areas of research are not followed because of
knowlege of some well-known result which suggests that such
exploration will be unfruitful.  Years ago, for instance, suggestions
that programs could be checked by software for proper behavior, and
run without using protected memory regions, were usually met with
snide comments about the "computer halting problem" and various
adjunct results.  Today, there are many variants of "safe execution"
technology, from prove and carry schemes, to Java bytecode, with a
sound theoretical basis behind them.  None of these is a violation of
the "computer halting problem" results, of course.
 
Similarly, after a large burst of activity decades ago, which resulted
in the notion of NP-Completeness, and various results in computational
complexity theory, suggestions that an analytic solution exists for
some large combinatorial problem of practical interest conjure up
visions of exponential resource utilization, speaker cluenessless, and
the lack of progress on NP=P.
 
For this reason, we feel this project is definitely a Schnelling
Point.  If it works, even badly, people will begin to look at lots of
problems in ways they would not have considered before, and much new
code which improves upon what we have done will be created.  This will
be an irreversible change in the Order of Things.
 
In the several days since we put up our FAQ, we have gotten quite a
few comments, and some concerns.
 
The comments have mostly been along the lines that it is an
interesting, even intriguing project.  The concerns are generally that
we will experience an unexpected "combinatoric explosion" in the
higher round problems, and that no one in their right mind would send
money to a nym, because it might just vanish and be used by the nym to
live in perpetual ecstasy in some place warm and tropical, without the
possiblility of the nym being sued for fraud.
 
While we hope the close coupling between the sponsors and the project
members will eliminate this latter concern, with weekly progress
reports and working code being distributed to permit the sponsors to
reproduce our results as they occur.  If three people are willing to
sponsor and give us the go-ahead to begin, without wanting their money
back if other sponsors do not join, we can probably get through the
minimal S-Box representations and their proof-of-correctness as well
as some cleaned up code for the 2-round problem.  Hopefully we will
then have a reputation with these people which will encourage others
to join in the effort.
 
Clearly, we're after speculative capital, rather than widow and orphan
money, and hope a few of the wealthy older retired (and perhaps even
crusty) engineer types might find this a productive thing to support.
After all, if you've just blown $220,000 on a DES Cracker, making it
$220,500 and getting your very own Schnelling Point in return is
probably a reasonable amount of fun for your money.
 
I'll stop ranting now. :)

-- 
Sponsor the DES Analytic Crack Project
http://www.cyberspace.org/~enoch/crakfaq.html
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Terry Leininger 
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 10:23:39 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Zipped Starr Report
Message-ID: <35FEA2F2.70758DE5@moraine.tec.wi.us>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain






>You are all writing about Clinton and Monica et al. Dunno what this
does here
>but anyway, let me add to the noise:

>Is it possible to download the Starr report somewhere, zipped and
prepared for
>offline reading?


Try   http://www.angelfire.com/wa/starreport/home.html

Couldn't help it...




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 09:55:31 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Request to DoD for InfoSec
Message-ID: <199809151446.KAA14702@camel7.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



To: kbacon@pagate.pa.osd.mil
From: jya@pipeline.com
Date: Tues 15 September 1998, 09:51 AM
Subject: Interview Request

Kenneth H. Bacon
Assistant Secretary of Defense for Public Affairs
OASD (PA)
1400 Defense Pentagon
Washington D.C. 20301-1400

Dear Mr. Bacon,

Three points of Secretary Cohen's informative talk[*] at the 
Council on Foreign Relations last evening would benefit
by amplification, and I ask your assistance in arranging an
interview with the Secretary to focus on the Department's
policy on information security technology.

1. The first concerns his view on the interdependency of military
and economic affairs for assurance of national security.

1.1 What does he see as the prospect for further declassification 
of restricted defense technology for use by industry for protection 
of information against economic espionage, as exemplified in the 
declassification of the Skipjack encryption algorithm. 

1.2 And what other services and/or technology the defense supply
and intelligence agencies may provide non-governmental customers 
in competition with other nations where closer cooperation between 
such agencies and industry is more common.

2. The second concerns the need for international cooperation
for US defense policy and how that is impacted by publicity and 
criticism of the Echelon electronic intercept program and other
national technical means not customarily discussed in public by 
the Department.

2.1 What are Secretary Cohen's views of programs such as Echelon 
political and international trust issues and what he is his view of European 
calls for investigation of Echelon.

2.2 What are Secretary Cohen's views as a constructive response to 
charges that Echelon and other national technical means are 
offensive military and economic espionage against those from 
whom the US desires defense cooperation.

3. In the Q&A on the topic of terrorism and encryption, Secretary 
Cohen remarked that the American people will have to decide how 
much privacy they are willing to give up in order to be protected from
terrorist threats.

3.1 What are the Secretary's views on how disputes on encryption
policy could be resolved in light of his calls for closer connection
between military and economic interests and for international 
cooperation for defense policy.

Your office has always been exemplary in responding to requests
for information. Thank you very much.


Sincerely,


John Young
JYA/Urban Deadline
251 West 89th Street, Suite 6E
New York, NY 10024

E-mail: jya@pipeline.com
Tel: 212-873-8700
Fax: 212-799-4003

* See: http://jya.com/dod091498.htm





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: jimg@mentat.com (Jim Gillogly)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 12:43:42 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: The DES Analytic Crack Project
Message-ID: <199809151742.KAA12178@zendia.mentat.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



nobody said:
> 
> Eric Michael Cordian, emc@wire.insync.net, writes:
> 
> > The concerns are generally that
> > we will experience an unexpected "combinatoric explosion" in the
> > higher round problems
> 
> Unexpected by you, perhaps, but expected by everyone else.  The complexity
> of the expressions should increase exponentially with the number of
> rounds.  Extrapolating from two and four round results to eight and
> sixteen is the wrong model. ...
> 
> Can't you come up with a back-of-the-envelope estimate for the number of
> terms in your sixteen round expression?  Even without fully optimized
> S-box expressions this information would be useful.  If it is greater than
> the number of atoms on Earth then it would be a strong hint that this
> approach won't work.

In the early 1980's I started trying this approach.  I did the
back-of-the-envelope estimate and realized it was too big, but
I thought it worth trying, since if there were a back door in
DES it might manifest itself by a massive collapse in the complexity
of these expressions.  I didn't get far enough into it to decide one
way or the other, since I didn't have a good tool for reducing the
expressions to minimal form.

	Jim Gillogly




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 12:05:15 +0800
To: kerrinp@iinet.net.au
Subject: CHRYSLER AWARD NOMINATION STATEMENT
Message-ID: <35FE9AD7.1805@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



CHRYSLER AWARD NOMINATION STATEMENT
			
American forefathers drafted the Constitution and laws of our country
shortly after having suffered injustice.   Fresh in their minds were
strategies used by their oppressors.  Writers of the Constitution and
laws anticipated ways subvert our system.  Therefore, our forefathers
designed safeguards into our legal system to prevent future injustice.

But these safeguards DON'T appear to be working today.

Morales and Payne designed a strategy using the National Security Agency
[NSA], Sandia National Laboratories, the US Federal Court System, and
publication on Internet to illustrate how the US government system has
deteriorated.

Arthur Morales WAS a supervisor at Sandia Labs in 1991.  Morales and
Manuel Garcia organized a class action lawsuit on behalf of minority and
women against Sandia.

Sandia settled Morales' and Garcia's lawsuit.  Department of Energy
acknowledged from Freedom of Information Act  [FOIA] requests that as
of  December 31, 1995 Morales cost Sandia $567,137 in legal fees.

Sandia retaliated against Morales.  Morales sued Sandia in New Mexico
District Court.  Morales lost

William Payne wrote a technical report describing 'deficiencies'  NSA's
cryptographic algorithms http://jya.com/da/whpda.htm.  Sandia
transferred Payne to break electronics locks for the Federal Bureau of
Invesitgation [FBI].  Payne refused to do illegal  work. 
http://www.jya.com/whp1.htm.

Payne sued Sandia in Federal Court.  Payne lost and court records were
sealed.

FBI agent Bernardo Perez  led a class action lawsuit against the FBI for
race discrimination against Hispanic
FBI agents.  http://www.usdoj.gov/osg/1995/w951482w.txt

Perez won.  Perez was assigned agent-in-charge of the FBI in Albuquerque
for settlement.  But Perez lost
money.

Morales and Payne learned that the FBI extorted an inexpensive from
Perez by telling Perez that the FBI was
GUARANTEED to win on appeal in Federal Circuit.

With Perez' and others knowledge of circuit courts, Morales and Payne
appealed their respective cases pro se to the Tenth Circuit.  

In Payne's case Sandia failed to submit its Brief of the Appellees on
time.  Then falsified its certificate of service when Payne filed to
remand.

In Morales' case Sandia submitted a deficient Brief of the Appellees
which was returned, missed the filing
date, and failed to serve Morales with its late brief.

Payne and Morales both won at the Tenth Circuit.  But judges awarded the
wins to Sandia.

All attempts by Morales and Payne to get copies of the docket for their
respective Tenth Circuit cases failed.

Therefore, Morales and Payne hatched a plan to get the dockets and
expose government misconduct.  

Payne previously made FOIA requests to NSA for  copies of messages and
translations given to 
Iraq during the Iraq/Iran war, copies of Libyan messages intercepted by
NSA, and NSA cryptographic
algorithms Payne thought contained deficiencies.

Morales and Payne sued NSA pro se for the documents. Lawsuit progress
was broadcast on Internet through e-mail and

     http://www.aci.net/kalliste/speccoll.htm
     http://jya.com/whpfiles.htm

And Payne wrote

 Black and White Test of Cryptographic Algorithms

criticizing the US government's crypto contest.  http://zolatimes.com.

Morales and Payne FINALLY got copies of dockets from their respective
cases from the Tenth
Circuit using Internet as a an innovative tool. 

9/15/98 10:39 AM
John Young
J Orlin Grabbe
Zola
and OTHERS

495 words counted by MS Word.

Please e-mail any editing improvements to John Young.  

I will meet Morales for lunch.  Then phone John Young.

Thanks in advance.

bill





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 11:00:54 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: INS Offers Biometric System for Frequent Flyers
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Delivered-To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
X-Sender: believer@telepath.com
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 09:18:32 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com
From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: INS Offers Biometric System for Frequent Flyers
Mime-Version: 1.0
Sender: owner-ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
Precedence: list
Reply-To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  Wired
http://www.wired.com/news/news/technology/story/15014.html

 US Takes Immigration in Hand
 by Theta Pavis

 4:00am15.Sep.98.PDT
 It's been 44 years since Ellis Island closed
 shop, but immigration can still be a long,
 tiresome process. In an effort to speed the
 process for international travelers, the US
 Immigration and Naturalization Service is offering
 a biometric system for willing frequent flyers.

 So far, 71,000 people in six airports have signed
 up for the system, called INSPASS. It employs
 a biometric kiosk to scan and match the
 geometric dimensions of travelers' hands, verify
 their identities, and perform standard
 background checks. The INS plans to expand
 the program to four additional airports by the end
 of the year.

 "It creates a fast lane for people," said James
 Wayman, head of the federally funded National
 Biometric Test Center at San Jose State
 University.

 The kiosks were integrated by EDS, which has
 had a US$300 million contract with the INS for
 automation support and software development
 since 1994. This summer, the INS awarded a
 new, five-year information-technology contract
 worth $750 million to EDS and four other
 companies.

 Ann Cohen, an EDS vice president in the
 government services group, said the fact that so
 many people have signed up for the INSPASS
 system shows that biometrics are becoming
 more popular and could be commonplace in the
 future.

 "Were getting over that 'Big Brother' hurdle,"
 Cohen said. As e-commerce develops and
 terrorism grows, biometrics increasingly are the
 "only sure way to get security."

 US and Canadian citizens flying overseas on
 business at least three times a year are eligible
 for the free INSPASS program. People from
 Bermuda and 26 other countries that have
 visa-waiver agreements with the United States
 are also eligible.

 The INSPASS kiosks, which look like ATM
 machines, were recently installed at the Los
 Angeles International Airport, where more than
 1,000 people have enrolled in the program. Rico
 Cabrera, a spokesman with the INS Los Angeles
 regional office, said travelers like the fact that
 INSPASS can check their identity in 16 to 60
 seconds, a process that can take up to three
 hours at some airports. The largest group of
 INSPASS users at LAX are US citizens,
 followed by Australians and New Zealanders.

 After filling out a one-page form and passing a
 background check, travelers can be issued a
 Port Pass card with their picture and a
 12-number ID on it.

 A traveler inserts the card in the kiosk, which
 reads the ID number and links to a centralized
 database run by US Customs. A geometric hand
 template is called up from the database and
 transferred to the kiosk. After a green light
 flashes, the right hand is placed on a reflective
 surface -- the ID-3D Handkey, made by
 Recognition Systems. The HandKey uses a
 video camera to take a geometric image of the
 traveler's hand and fingers, and the data is
 converted using compression algorithms. If it
 matches the template of the hand stored in the
 database, the traveler is in.

 INSPASS kiosks are also in use at airports in
 Newark, Miami, Kennedy (New York), Pearson
 (Toronto), and Vancouver, British Columbia. The
 INS eventually plans to install them at most
 busy international airports around the country,
 including Washington, San Francisco, Seattle,
 and Honolulu. The department has geared the
 program toward business travelers, diplomats,
 airline personnel, and other "low-risk" visitors.

 Some argue that the INS hasn't done enough to
 market the program. Jeffrey Betts, WorldWide
 Solution Manager for IBM -- which has developed
 FastGate, a kiosk similar to INSPASS -- said
 people aren't enrolling fast enough in the INS
 system.

 International arrivals at airports across the globe
 are growing every year by 7 to 10 percent, Betts
 said, but border control resources are flat or
 declining. In 1996, some 65,000 people were
 enrolled in the INSPASS program, but the
 program has added just 6,000 new users since
 then.

 IBM, which has been running a small pilot
 program of FastGate in Bermuda for the past
 year, is building a system where people can
 swipe a credit card through a kiosk at the airport
 and connect with a database where the
 biometrics are stored.

 "Governments will have to find ways to do more
 with less or force travelers to queue like cattle,"
 Betts said.

 While the government plans on marketing
 INSPASS more aggressively in the future,
 Schmidt said, INS is counting on word of mouth
 to get new people enrolled. "We don't really have
 the budget for a huge marketing campaign," she
 said.
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




**********************************************
To subscribe or unsubscribe, email:
     majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com
with the message:
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**********************************************
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**********************************************

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Carol Anne Cypherpunk 
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 11:18:05 +0800
To: Tim May 
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980915111604.0071bd08@pop.primenet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Boundary..3996.1071713799.multipart/signed"

--Boundary..3996.1071713799.multipart/signed
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

At 09:04 AM 9/15/98 -0700, Tim May wrote:
>
>At 10:25 AM -0700 9/15/98, Terry Leininger wrote:
>>>Is it possible to download the Starr report somewhere, zipped and
>>prepared for
>>>offline reading?
>>

Hey!  Wait'll I change out of my blue dress...till you unzipppp..

>Don't you mean _unzipped_?
>
>
>--Tim May
>
>(This space left blank pending determ. of acceptability to the gov't.)
>---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
>Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
>ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
>W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
>Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.
>
>
>
>
Member Internet Society  - Certified Mining Co. Guide  -  Webmistress
***********************************************************************
Carol Anne Braddock (cab8)  carolann@censored.org   206.165.50.96
My Homepage
The Cyberdoc
***********************************************************************
Will lobby Congress for Food & Expenses!!!

--Boundary..3996.1071713799.multipart/signed
Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="pgp00000.pgp"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="pgp00000.pgp"
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ZnJvbSBjZW5zb3JlZC5vcmcKCmlRQS9Bd1VCTmY2U3lEaU0yNjU2VlhBckVR
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LS0tLS0K
--Boundary..3996.1071713799.multipart/signed--



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Richard.Bragg@ssa.co.uk
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 05:47:08 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Joe Farah 9/14 (Pppbbbttt)
Message-ID: <80256680.003A249A.00@seunt002e.ssa.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>>Almost 60 percent of those polled said they thought Clinton was fit to be
>>president. By what standard? That's the trouble. Americans have no
>>standards -- no unchangeable yardsticks by which they measure right and
>>wrong, truth from fiction.

>By *their* standard, by their own personal judgement. There's no moral
>yardstick, and God help us if there is in the future. Who makes the
>yardstick? Who sits down and says, "This is the moral standard in this
>country, abide by it or suffer the consequences"?

Sorry but there are absolutes and there is a moral yardstick.  Whether this
 is accepted or not is beside the point.

There has to be absolutes otherwise any action can be excused (or damned).
  The real cry should be
"God help us to instigate Your yardstick".  God doesn't change and neither
does His measure.

1)Love the Lord, with all your heart, with all you soul with all your mind
and all your strength
2)Love you neibour as yourself.

Everything else hangs on these.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Eric Cordian 
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 11:52:19 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: The DES Analytic Crack Project
In-Reply-To: <199809151500.RAA31305@replay.com>
Message-ID: <199809151652.LAA13965@wire.insync.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Anonymous 
 
>> The concerns are generally that we will experience an unexpected
>> "combinatoric explosion" in the higher round problems
 
> Unexpected by you, perhaps, but expected by everyone else.  The
> complexity of the expressions should increase exponentially with the
> number of rounds.  Extrapolating from two and four round results to
> eight and sixteen is the wrong model.  (You can artificially suppress
> this by introducing new variables for each round, but that doesn't
> change the underlying complexity of the problem.)
 
The size of the problem scales linearly with the number of rounds, and
of course additional variables are introduced to make sure that terms
in the CNF representation reference three or less variables.
 
The number of such terms is clearly bounded by the cube of the number
of variables, and practical experiments with a wide variety of
problems illustrate that memory usage is generally limited to a small
integer multiple of the original problem size.  Intractability
generally appears as a lack of locality, in that canonicalization of
the problem requires the use of algebraic identities involving large
numbers of terms, such identities becoming statistically more rare
with increasing N.  We anticipate that the set of such identities
required to converge a DES problem will have a small N, and we will
simply augment that set should the algorithm cease to make progress
prior to finding a solution.  We know there will be no memory
explosion, and CPU should remain small enough for us to achieve our
stated goal of less than a day on a $5k workstation.
 
> Can't you come up with a back-of-the-envelope estimate for the number
> of terms in your sixteen round expression?  Even without fully
> optimized S-box expressions this information would be useful.  If it
> is greater than the number of atoms on Earth then it would be a strong
> hint that this approach won't work.
 
Back when we were working on the original DES challenge, with naive
S-Box optimization, the size of the input data sets were as follows.
 
            vars   implications   3-CNF terms
            ----   ------------   -----------
 2-round    2015           4046          1959
 4-round    4588           9192          4596
 8-round    9852          19720          9860
16-round   20389          40794         20397
 
> If you really want to attract money you need some kind of numbers to
> show that the approach has a prayer of working.  Show the size of the
> problem you will get, estimate how much improvement you'll get with
> your improved S-box representations, compare it with the problems
> tackled by available combinatorial algorithms.  You should be able to
> do this with a few hours of work, at least to show that the basic
> concept is sound (or unsound).
 
Our original input sets were generated by a very indirect method,
involving an original implementation as switch networks, a conversion
to NANDs, and ultimately, 3-conjunctive normal form, with some simple
local optimization along the way.  We are a lot better at setting up
these problems now than we were the first time we tried, and
anticipate that we can knock down the variable count by at least a
factor of four by precomputing minimal S-Box representations.
 
This will result in a combinatorial problem in 4000 to 5000 variables
for full 16-round DES, and make this problem approximately equal in
size to where the 4-round problem is now.
 
We've run quite a few medium-sized problems through our combinatorial
algorithms, including reduced-round DES, factoring the 32 bit product
of two 16 bit primes written in terms of individual 2-intput logical
functions, and various problems involving minimizing representations
of boolean functions with respect to a specific cost criteria.
 
So far, no huge surprises.
 
Finding the global minimum cost representation of an S-Box in terms of
selected other functions is actually a good-sized combinatorial
problem in and of itself, and should serve to illustrate how our
algorithms work prior to embarking upon the higher round DES cracks.
 
We don't suggest that these algorithms magically solve every
conceivable problem, merely that they seem to do a satisfactory job on
a number of problems of practical interest.

-- 
Sponsor the DES Analytic Crack Project
http://www.cyberspace.org/~enoch/crakfaq.html
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 14:11:21 +0800
To: tom@xgboy.com
Subject: CHRYSLER AWARD NOMINATION STATEMENT   9/15/98 12:30 PM
Message-ID: <35FEB8CA.78C4@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Tuesday 9/15/98 12:39 PM 

e-mail

Ms Vikki Hardy
Chrysler Award for Innovative Design
c/o Bozell Advertising
1000 Town Center, 15th Floor
Southfield, MI 48075-1241
248 262 8643
vhardy@detroit.bozell.com

We are sending our submission by 

1	e-mail
2	hardcopy
3	diskette with .htm and .txt files

by priority certified mail.	             

Best
bill


	             CHRYSLER AWARD NOMINATION STATEMENT
			        9/15/98 12:30 PM
			
American forefathers drafted the Constitution and laws of our country
shortly after having suffered injustice.   Fresh in their minds were
strategies used by their oppressors.  Writers of the Constitution and
laws anticipated ways to subvert our system.  Therefore, our forefathers
designed safeguards into our legal system to prevent future injustice.

But these safeguards DON'T appear to be working today.

Morales and Payne designed a strategy using the National Security Agency
[NSA], Sandia National Laboratories, the US Federal Court System, and
publication on Internet to illustrate how the US government has
deteriorated.

Arthur Morales WAS a supervisor at Sandia Labs in 1991.  Morales and
Manuel Garcia organized a class action lawsuit on behalf of Hispanics
against Sandia.

Sandia settled Morales' and Garcia's lawsuit.  Department of Energy
acknowledged from Freedom of Information Act  [FOIA] requests that as
of  December 31, 1995 Morales cost Sandia $567,137 in legal fees.

Sandia retaliated against Morales.  Morales sued Sandia in New Mexico
District Court.  Morales lost.

William Payne wrote a technical report describing 'deficiencies'  NSA's
cryptographic algorithms http://jya.com/da/whpda.htm.  Sandia
transferred Payne to break electronics locks for the Federal Bureau of
Invesitgation [FBI].  Payne refused to do illegal work. 
http://www.jya.com/whp1.htm.

Payne sued Sandia in Federal Court.  Payne lost and court records were
sealed.

FBI agent Bernardo Perez  led a class action lawsuit against the FBI for
race discrimination against Hispanic FBI agents. 
http://www.usdoj.gov/osg/1995/w951482w.txt

Perez won.  Perez was assigned agent-in-charge of the FBI in Albuquerque
for settlement.  But Perez lost money.

Morales and Payne learned that the FBI extorted an inexpensive from
Perez by telling Perez that the FBI was GUARANTEED to win on appeal in
Federal Circuit.

With Perez' and others knowledge of circuit courts, Morales and Payne
appealed their respective cases pro se to the Tenth Circuit.  

In Payne's case Sandia failed to submit its Brief of the Appellees on
time. Then falsified its certificate of service when Payne filed to
remand.

In Morales' case Sandia submitted a deficient Brief of the Appellees
which was returned but failed to serve Morales with its brief.

Payne and Morales both won at the Tenth Circuit on technicalities.  But
judges awarded the wins to Sandia.

All attempts by Morales and Payne to get copies of the docket for their
respective Tenth Circuit cases failed.

Therefore, Morales and Payne hatched a plan to get the dockets and
expose government misconduct.  

Payne previously made FOIA requests to NSA for  copies of messages and
translations given to Iraq during the Iraq/Iran war, copies of Libyan
messages intercepted by NSA, and NSA cryptographic algorithms Payne
thought contained deficiencies.

Morales and Payne sued NSA pro se for the documents. Lawsuit progress
was broadcast on Internet through e-mail and

     http://www.aci.net/kalliste/speccoll.htm
     http://jya.com/whpfiles.htm

And Payne wrote

 Black and White Test of Cryptographic Algorithms

criticizing the US government's crypto contest.  http://zolatimes.com.

Morales and Payne FINALLY got copies of dockets from their respective
cases from the Tenth Circuit using Internet as an innovative tool.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 12:12:16 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Mersienne crack busted...
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Somebody evidently installed the Mersienne(sp?) prime search client on
2000+ AT&T machines.

The local talk station news has a report that they have just been
apprehended and will be prosecuted for it.

Interesting times, indeed...

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Sunder 
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 12:25:33 +0800
To: nnburk@cobain.HDC.NET
Subject: Re: Predictions: Crime and Criminal Justice in the 21st Century
In-Reply-To: <35FDD227.4C7D@yankton.com>
Message-ID: <35FEA26E.B168F6AA@brainlink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



nnburk wrote:
> 
> Predictions: Crime and Criminal Justice in the 21st Century
> 
> 1.      The United States will experience a significant economic
> recession/crisis very close to the turn of the Century.

I see this as well and agree with it.  The recent stock market rocking back and
forth is a sign that something sucks, and sucks badly.  Y2K will of course make
this into a bigger horror.
 
> 2.      As the large pool of young people born in the early 1990s
> become teenagers and young adults, there will be a dramatic
> increase in violent crime around the year 2005-2010.

I don't necessarily see this.  What do you base this on?  Outside of where I
live, there is an elementary school.  Young kids these days are made to wear
UNIFORMS and carry ID's and can only go to school with see through bags and
must pass through metal detectors and/or be frisked.

Further, one of the local newspapers (Times? Daily News? Post?) here in NYC had
some story about how the city school security will be taken over by the police
department, effectively turning schools into jails.  IMHO, this won't turn out
delinquents, this will turn out slaves who are used to being treated as slaves,
are used to having no freedoms and don't expect them; they'll live without
privacy and they'll like it.  Those are your kids America: sheep!

Mindless slaves rarely rebel; unless you take away their MTV and their Sony
Playstations I doubt this.
 
> 3.      America will experience sporadic civil disorders/riots in
> many of its urban areas during the next 10-15 years -- much of it
> related to racial/ethnic problems.

Doubt it.  Unless they can't get food or money, or IF there are massive
blackouts they will riot, but will do so to break into stores and loot.
(Speaking based on LA riots and riots here in NYC about a decade or two ago
when power failed.)
 
> 4.      Terrorist acts by "fringe"/special issue groups will
> increase at a significant rate -- becoming a major law enforcement
> and security problem.

Okay, this is likely.
 
> 5.      As faith in the criminal justice system declines, there
> will be a rise in vigilante-based incidents where citizens take
> the enforcement of crime problems into their own hands.

The rest of your prediction sounds like you've watched Robocop a few times too
many and actually BELIEVED it! :)  Care to back it up with reasons?
 
> 6.      Much of middle- and upper-class America will take a
> "retreatist" attitude and move into private high-security
> communities located in suburban or rural areas. Because of
> technological advances, many companies and corporations will also
> move out of the urban environments as well.
> 
> 7.      Due to many of the predictions listed above, much of law
> enforcement and security in the 21st Century will become
> privatized and contractual. Traditional law enforcement agencies
> will primarily serve urban and rural communities.
> 
> 8.      Law enforcement will evolve into two major and divergent
> roles: traditional law enforcement and a more specialized
> military tactical role to deal with the growing urban violance
> and terrorist incidents.
> 
> 9.      Significant violence and unrest will plague our nation's
> prisons. Major prison riots will become a regular occurrence.
> 
> 10.     With the decrease of the possibility of major global
> warfare, the United States military will take on an increased
> domestic "peace-keeping" role with America's law enforcement
> agencies.

-- 

=====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos==============
.+.^.+.|       Sunder       |Prying open my 3rd eye.  So good to see |./|\.
..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were      |/\|/\
<--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run  |\/|\/
../|\..| "A toast to Odin,  |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/.
.+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were....            |.....
======================= http://www.sundernet.com ==========================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Sunder 
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 12:41:03 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Larry Gilbert, AOLers, and the Hyper-real flamer
In-Reply-To: <199809150228.EAA19097@replay.com>
Message-ID: <35FEA45C.4B167064@brainlink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Anonymous wrote:

> I know of several people in addition to myself who have complained to
> Sixdegrees about this. I've personally given up sending complaints back to
> them, and I lost count at 5. Sixdegrees simply ignores them. I've sent
> them to their upstream sites, and they either ignore them or tell me that
> they've forwarded them to Sixdegrees. My complaints, at least, were very
> civil. One explained exactly what a mailing list was, for crying out loud.
> I can't speak for Hyper-real's (if he sent any) and the others. You may be
> able to use that defense if Sixdegrees didn't know, but they do.

Don't ignore the fact that 6degrees of spam, like most other organizations that
pose as a free service do so to make money from ads.  The more sheep view the
ads of their true clients, the more money they make.  They have no interest in
cutting down the supply of viewers.  If a mailing list gets spammed because of
an asshole, so much the better since many of that list might go and check out
the site, even if just to find contact info to complain to.


-- 

=====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos==============
.+.^.+.|       Sunder       |Prying open my 3rd eye.  So good to see |./|\.
..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were      |/\|/\
<--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run  |\/|\/
../|\..| "A toast to Odin,  |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/.
.+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were....            |.....
======================= http://www.sundernet.com ==========================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 13:42:29 +0800
To: Robert Hettinga 
Subject: Re: Mersienne crack busted...
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199809151842.OAA01048@domains.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In , on 09/15/98 
   at 01:11 PM, Robert Hettinga  said:

>Somebody evidently installed the Mersienne(sp?) prime search client on
>2000+ AT&T machines.

>The local talk station news has a report that they have just been
>apprehended and will be prosecuted for it.

>Interesting times, indeed...

It was US West's computers:

DENVER (AP) -- A 28-year-old computer expert is accused of hacking into
the U S West computer system and diverting more than 2,500 machines that
should have been helping answer phones to his effort to solve a
350-year-old math problem, according to documents filed in a federal
court.

Aaron Blosser also allegedly obtained the passwords to 15,000 U S West
workstations and sent much of the coded material he found in them onto the
Internet, according to an FBI search warrant served at his Lakewood,
Colo., home last Wednesday.

The warrant says Blosser, a contract computer consultant who worked for a
vendor that was hired by Denver-based U S West, is under investigation for
computer fraud.

In a telephone interview with The Denver Post, Blosser said he has not
been charged with any crime and said he made no money from his
unauthorized use of U S West computers. He also failed in his mathematical
quest: the search for a new prime number.

``I've worked on this (math) problem for a long time,'' said Blosser.
``When I started working at U S West, all that computational power was
just too tempting for me.''

Blosser enlisted 2,585 computers to work at various times during the day
and night and quickly ran up 10.63 years of computer processing time in
his search for a new prime number.

U S West spokesman David Beigie called the hacking ``unprecedented'' in
company history. ``It would be virtually impossible to do it from the
outside,'' he said.

Blosser's alleged hacking was discovered when computers at U S West's
facility in Phoenix, which normally respond in 3 to 5 seconds, took as
long as five minutes to retrieve telephone numbers.

The computers were so slow in mid-May that customer calls had to be
rerouted to other states, and at one point the delays threatened to close
down the Phoenix Service Delivery Center.

On May 27, U S West's Intrusion Response Team found a software program on
the system that ``captured U S West computers to work on a project
unrelated to U S West Services,'' according to the search warrant.

The anti-hacking team traced the software to a terminal at the company's
Littleton offices, where they found Blosser, a self-described ``math
geek.''

Blosser allegedly showed agents how he remotely installed software on
computers throughout the U S West system and reprogrammed them to search
for a new prime number.

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: Get OS/2 - the best Windows tip around!

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Charset: cp850
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vivek Vaidya" 
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 16:22:24 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Democracy...
Message-ID: <19980915210638.14549.qmail@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




>>>Almost 60 percent of those polled said they thought Clinton was fit 
to be
>>>president. By what standard? That's the trouble. Americans have no
>>>standards -- no unchangeable yardsticks by which they measure right 
and
>>>wrong, truth from fiction.
>
>>By *their* standard, by their own personal judgement. There's no moral
>>yardstick, and God help us if there is in the future. Who makes the
>>yardstick? Who sits down and says, "This is the moral standard in this
>>country, abide by it or suffer the consequences"?
>
>Sorry but there are absolutes and there is a moral yardstick.  Whether 
this
> is accepted or not is beside the point.
>
>There has to be absolutes otherwise any action can be excused (or 
damned).
>  The real cry should be
>"God help us to instigate Your yardstick".  God doesn't change and 
neither
>does His measure.
>
>1)Love the Lord, with all your heart, with all you soul with all your 
mind
>and all your strength
>2)Love you neibour as yourself.
>
>Everything else hangs on these.
>
Ever heard of seperation of church and state? Democracy? the rights of 
the individual?  While you certainly have the right to practice your 
religion in what ever manner you so choose demanding that everyone else 
does, or that the president of the us of ais subject to you PERSONAL 
faith decisions is outragous

Vivek Vaidya

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 13:50:57 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Anon traffic via SSZ
Message-ID: <199809151913.OAA32743@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 19:07:24 +0200
> From: Anonymous 
> 
> There seems to be a problem posting anonymous messages to cypherpunks@ssz.com. I have posted several messages over the past week and *none* of them have showed up.
> 
> I am posting this as a test message. I am sending it to the following addresses:
> 
> cypherpunks@toad.com
> cypherpunks@ssz.com
> cypherpunks@algebra.com
> cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
> 
> I will add the server name to the subject line for each post to test which messages are being delivered and which are not.
> 
> I AM TOTOCUS!!

Nothing on this end filters unless it comes from/to:

cypherpunks-unedited@toad.com
mosexpo.ru
fw9.telekom.edu
any.where.com

I filter these because the dumbshit's at mosexpo.ru keep sending messages
with munged headers that fill up postmaser's mailbox with delivery failure
messages. I got tired of using the 'd' key. But even in this case, I only
filter *after* I've forwarded the traffic to the other nodes.

The only other quirk I'm aware of regarding anon posts are ones without
subjects, in which case I get a notice that the Japanese node is dropping
it because it doesn't have headers. This should come as no surprise as I've
made mention several times on this issue.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Branch 
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 16:22:14 +0800
To: AIMSX@aol.com
Subject: Re: Larry Gilbert, AOLers, and the Hyper-real flamer
Message-ID: <199809152110.PAA04927@breckenridge.Central.Sun.COM>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



this news group is a lot like the Jerry Springer show. 

Mike

> From: AIMSX@aol.com
> Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 08:06:33 EDT
> To: nobody@replay.com, cypherpunks@toad.com
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Subject: Re: Larry Gilbert, AOLers, and the Hyper-real flamer
> Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
> 
> Obviously you have a very high opinion of yourself and a low opinion of people
> who use AOL.  Contrary to popular belief, there are a few intelligent people
> on AOL, but it looks as if you are too egotistical to realize that.
> 
> Have you ever thought to look at your own mistakes before you publicize
> everyone else's to the world?  Are you just suffering from some sort of
> dillusion of grandeur - thinking you are better than everyone else.  Things
> like this are what many wars were started over, I am so happy the internet
> (hopefully) won't start a war in the real world.
> 

#################################################################
#								#
# Michael Branch, UwD			Customer Support Engr.  #
# (303) 464-4637			(UNIX witch doctor)	#
# Michael.Branch@central.sun.com	Sun Microsystems, Inc.	#
#								#
# "I turn big problems into little problems."			#
#								#
################################################################# 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 15:20:33 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Crypto in a Cuban Crime...
In-Reply-To: <19980915182955.12551.qmail@listbox.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 12:18 PM -0400 on 9/15/98, Charles Smith of Win Schwartau's FUDFactory
wrote something mildly clueful:


> BUSTED CUBAN SPIES USE CRYPTO
> -----------------------------
> FBI officials are proud that they broke up a small ring of Cuban
> spies in Florida.  The Cuban espionage agents are accused of
> using encryption to encode messages and protect information.
> Expect Director Freeh to use this bust as one of a hand full
> historical examples of "crypto" crimes in his next Congressional
> testimony.  According to his last testimony in August 1998, only
> 17 crimes over the past 10 years have been made more difficult
> for the FBI by encryption.
>
> What the FBI Director won't tell you is that the Cubans have
> been sending enciphered messages to their U.N. mission in New
> York over SHORT-WAVE RADIO for almost 30 years.  The Morse code
> signals are encrypted with a Cuban one-time-pad cipher and
> transmitted from Havana on a nightly basis.  The Cuban encrypted
> transmissions are so regular - some HAM radio operators set
> their clocks by it.

-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 15:21:49 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Forwarded mail...
Message-ID: <199809152046.PAA00429@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 21:14:19 +0200
> From: Anonymous 

> The post I made earlier went through without a problem, but as I mentioned in my original post I had made several anon posts through replay.com to cypherpunks@ssz.com and they never made it to the list.
> 
> I also noticed that replay.com seems to be striping the subject from the posts as in my last post I *did* put a subject line on the message but it arrived to the list without one.
> 
> In the messages I sent, a couple of them I used a chain of remailers but when they failed to appear I sent the remaining messages through replay.com only (using the https interface to send the messages).
> 
> It may have just been a problem on replay's end but on all the posts I did get a conformation page that the messages had been accepted.
> 
> Odd.
> 
> I AM TOTOCUS!!!
> 

Sounds to me like you need to be talking to replay.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Brian B. Riley" 
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 15:28:24 +0800
To: "Steve Schear" 
Subject: Re: radio net
Message-ID: <199809152029.QAA03672@mx02.together.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On 9/6/98 6:20 PM, Steve Schear (schear@lvcm.com)  passed this wisdom:

>> Spread spectrum would have more promise as many stations could be on the
>>air at once on the same frequency thus making life quite confusing for
>>the T-hunters.
>
>I investigated this application several years back and see two practical
>approaches: one adapt a commercial SSB or Ham transciever to use frequency
>hopping spread spectrum, or two build a pirate spread spectrum satellite
>ground station.
>
>Until recently most SSB gear didn't have the RF characteristics to use FH.
>Now there are a number of inexpensive sets which use direct frequency
>synthesis (as opposed to the older, and much slower, phase-locked loop
>approach) and can be driven at hundreds or even thousands of hops per
>second. FH helps solve two problems: first it provides privacy, second it
>can mitigate or eliminate fading (which is highly time-frequency
>correlated). Also, the higher the hop rate, the higher the process gain,
>jam resistance and the lower the probablity of intecept (all other things
>being equal).
>
>It think it was Phil Karn (Qualcomm) who once mused that it would be rather
>straightforward to masquarade a high process gain SS signal on a commercial
>satellite transponder. To it's owners the SS signal would be almost
>invisible, making itself known as only a very slight depression in the
>transponder's gain. Effectively, this could offer an inexpensive covert
>channel for tunneling packets and thwarting traffic analysis.
>
>After the Captain Midnight episode I discussed this possibility with a very
>technically knowledgeable staffer at the FCC and was assured that discovery
>of such signals were beyond (at that time) the ability of commercial and
>national technical (e.g., Lacrosse) means.

 I would suppose the T-hunt aspects of a clandestine network would be 
obviated by piggybacking it into a commercial satellite transponder 
channels ... which brings to mind about how expensive one or two of those 
channeles might be. I remeber in the early days of ham packet radio we 
had several 'wormholes' where hams had obtained through their places of 
employemnt temporary use of unused satellite channels where we were given 
essentially RS232 access and we adapted the packet switches to an async 
backchannel in place of another synch RF path. They did make for some 
intersting network improvements. I guess it always comes down to how do 
you fund such things.


Brian B. Riley --> http://members.macconnect.com/~brianbr
 For PGP Keys  

"Success always occurs in private, and failure in full view." 
   -- from somewhere on the Net





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 18:40:44 +0800
To: Michael Branch 
Subject: Re: Larry Gilbert, AOLers, and the Hyper-real flamer
In-Reply-To: <199809152110.PAA04927@breckenridge.Central.Sun.COM>
Message-ID: <35FEFB86.6E10@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Michael Branch wrote:
> 
> this news group is a lot like the Jerry Springer show.
> 
> Mike
> 
I went to a cypherpunks meeting in Mtn View last Saturday. I was
hesitant because I expected a multimedia, in-your-face version of the
list. Surprise!!! This crew is smart, experienced, rational and they are
actually working. Even though the topic of the day, IPSEC and secure
DNS, is not a technical area that I know or care to learn right now, I
was impressed. 

Night and day : list and meeting. When a project comes along that
interests me, I'm in. 

Regards,
Mike

ps - I wish I could offer legal expertise or lots of money *when* the
Constitutional battle over domestic controls gets more direct.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 18:53:18 +0800
To: Vivek Vaidya 
Subject: Re: Democracy...
In-Reply-To: <19980915210638.14549.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <35FEFCC9.2027@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Vivek Vaidya wrote:
> Ever heard of seperation of church and state? Democracy? the rights of
> the individual?  While you certainly have the right to practice your
> religion in what ever manner you so choose demanding that everyone > else
> does, or that the president of the us of ais subject to you PERSONAL
> faith decisions is outragous
> 
> Vivek Vaidya
> 
Just look around the world to see what happens when those two get
together!




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 09:59:32 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: The DES Analytic Crack Project
Message-ID: <199809151500.RAA31305@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Eric Michael Cordian, emc@wire.insync.net, writes:

> The concerns are generally that
> we will experience an unexpected "combinatoric explosion" in the
> higher round problems

Unexpected by you, perhaps, but expected by everyone else.  The complexity
of the expressions should increase exponentially with the number of
rounds.  Extrapolating from two and four round results to eight and
sixteen is the wrong model.  (You can artificially suppress this by
introducing new variables for each round, but that doesn't change the
underlying complexity of the problem.)

Can't you come up with a back-of-the-envelope estimate for the number of
terms in your sixteen round expression?  Even without fully optimized
S-box expressions this information would be useful.  If it is greater than
the number of atoms on Earth then it would be a strong hint that this
approach won't work.

If you really want to attract money you need some kind of numbers to show
that the approach has a prayer of working.  Show the size of the problem
you will get, estimate how much improvement you'll get with your improved
S-box representations, compare it with the problems tackled by available
combinatorial algorithms.  You should be able to do this with a few hours
of work, at least to show that the basic concept is sound (or unsound).




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "XxGaLxX" 
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 17:55:39 +0800
To: "Christopher Barkley" 
Subject: Re: Hello
Message-ID: <199809152249.SAA01925@mcfeely.concentric.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



your worst nightmare =)

----------
> From: Christopher Barkley 
> To: cypherpunks@toad.com
> Subject: Hello
> Date: Tuesday, September 15, 1998 5:14 PM
> 
> You listed me in Six Degrees as your fellow alum, but I'm afraid I can't
> place you.  So, who are you?
> 
> Cheers,
> Christopher




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 16:54:16 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Working Photonic Lattice, A Dream For A Decade, Fabricated At  Sandia
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Delivered-To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
X-Sender: believer@telepath.com
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 16:16:20 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com
From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Working Photonic Lattice, A Dream For A Decade, Fabricated At
  Sandia
Mime-Version: 1.0
Sender: owner-ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
Precedence: list
Reply-To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  EurekAlert!
http://www.eurekalert.org/releases/snl-wpladfad.html

For Immediate Release: 15 September 1998

 Contact: Neal Singer
 nsinger@sandia.gov
 (505) 845-7078
 Sandia National Laboratories

Working Photonic Lattice, A Dream For A Decade, Fabricated At Sandia:
Lincoln Log-Like Structure To Improve Infrared And Optical Communications,
Optical Computers

 ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. -- By interlocking tiny slivers of silicon into a
lattice that,
 under a microscope, appears to be formed by toy Lincoln logs, scientists
at the
 Department of Energy's Sandia National Laboratories believe they have
solved a
 major technical problem: how to bend light easily and cheaply without
leaking it, no
 matter how many twists or turns are needed for optical communications or
(potentially)
 optical computers.

 The lattice, dubbed a photonic crystal (crystals have regularly repeating
internal
 structures), now works in the infrared range (approximately 10-micron
wavelengths).
 This achievement is of military and commercial interest because the
technique can be
 used to enhance or better transmit infrared images. Sandia researchers
Shawn Lin and
 Jim Fleming now are preparing a 1.5 micron crystal -- the region in which
almost all
 the world?s optically transmitted information is passed.

 The improvement -- which bends far more light in far less space at
considerably less
 cost than current commercial methods -- will make possible tinier,
cheaper, more
 effective waveguides to combine or separate optical frequencies at the
beginning or
 end of information transmissions. It will find wide application in data
transmission and
 in more compact and efficient sensors. (See "Technique Perfected...."
backgrounder
 that follows.)

 Pierre Villeneuve, a research scientist at the Massachusetts Institute of
Technology
 (MIT), says, "With the structure [Sandia researcher] Shawn [Lin] is using
now, he'll be
 able to hit the 1.5 micron mark within the next 12 months. This shows how
'key' this
 work is: He's using a technique that lends itself to hitting the mark."

 A venture capitalist requesting anonymity has approached the researchers to
 commercialize the process. The achievement, for which Sandia has applied
for a
 patent, was reported in the July 16 issue of the journal Nature.

 The structure, in the regularity and spacing of its parts, is mirrorlike
in not permitting
 light of a particular frequency, caught within the cavity of the
structure, to escape.
 Instead, light must follow along any twists or turns designed into the log
structure.

 By designing the distance between logs carefully, a chosen wavelength is
reflected
 instead of passing out of the space, as longer or shorter wavelengths can.
With
 introduction of an impurity like air or much thicker polysilicon "logs" to
provide routes
 for preselected wavelengths introduced into the crystal, light travels
along the impurity
 as it twists or bends. No matter how sharp the turns, light of frequency
roughly in the
 middle of the band gap cannot escape.

 Funding for the project was provided by Sandia's Laboratory-Directed
Research and
 Development office, which funds speculative, defense-related research, and
by the
 DOE.

 A Photonic Band Gap

 What's "cool," in the eyes of some observers, is that Sandia researchers
Lin and
 Fleming have created the equivalent of a photonic "band gap" that forbids
certain
 frequencies of light from exiting the lattice. ("Band Gap" is a term
usually applied to
 electrons, not photons, and signifies a range of energies in which
electrons are absent
 because their presence would contradict quantum mechanical laws.)

 The nearly leak-proof lattices form a cage that trap and guide
approximately 95
 percent of the light sent within them, as compared with approximately 30
percent for
 conventional waveguides, and they take only one-tenth to one-fifth the
space to bend
 the light. (The Sandia photonic lattice's turning radius is currently in
the one-wavelength
 range, rather than the traditional waveguide bend of more than 10
wavelengths.)

 Standard, integrated-circuit manufacturing technology used to fabricate
micromachines
 -- machines nearly too small to see -- at Sandia's Microelctronics
Development
 Laboratory can create tens of thousands of waveguides from a single,
6-inch silicon
 wafer. This is a factor 10 to 100 times more dense than can be fabricated
using more
 expensive gallium arsenide with current commercial technology.

 Potential uses: low-energy lasers, photonic computers, communications
Because little
 light is lost in the three-dimensional mirroring that sends light back at
itself, a new type
 of microlaser requiring little start-up energy is theoretically
achievable. (Most
 conventional lasers require large jolts of energy to begin operating
because so much
 light is lost in the lasing start-up process.)

 The achievement also brings nearer the day when computers that transmit
information
 using photons rather than electrons become a practical reality. Currently,
desktop
 computers use electrons to pass information, but as more circuits are
included on new
 chips, they become more difficult to cool. Photons, the stuff of light,
are faster and
 cooler than electrons. The problem is that no one has been able to bend
useful
 frequencies of light around tight corners (as navigated by electrons
through a million
 turns on a computer chip the size of a postage stamp) without incurring
large losses in
 information; with previously used techniques, light leaks, and badly, the
more tightly it
 is turned.

 One principle of optical communications is that differing frequencies of
light are bent by
 different amounts. Waveguides first combine the frequencies of a number of
 information streams -- for example, telephone calls -- by bending them
into the
 combined "white" light passing through an optical cable; then other
waveguides
 separate the light into component frequencies by bending it at the end of
its journey.

 Photonic Band Gap Crystals -- A History

 The idea of a "photonic band gap structure" was first advanced in 1987 by Eli
 Yablonovitch, now a professor at the University of California at Los
Angeles. In 1990,
 he built the first photonic crystal, baseball-sized to channel microwaves
useful in
 antennae applications. In the mid 1990s, scientists at Ames Laboratory in
Iowa built
 crystals the size of ping pong balls, also for microwaves. The components
were of a
 size that could be put together by hand, using straight metal pins (of the
type that hold
 new shirts in place).

 The size reduction for current structures is a striking achievement that
researchers have
 been attempting to achieve for a decade, says Del Owyoung, Sandia manager
for the
 project. The difference in frequency is comparable to moving from masers
to lasers, he
 said ? from microwaves to optical waves.

 According to Rama Biswa, a researcher at Ames Lab, "We had built the same
 structure [as Sandia has] ourselves, but more than 100 times larger, in
the microwave
 frequency range. I think it is quite remarkable that Shawn Lin's group
could do it at
 these wavelengths in the infrared and at this size."

 Villeneuve, who has theorized about uses for photonic crystals for much of
the 1990s
 in a group led by MIT professor J. D. Joannopoulos, praised the Sandia
group for
 "showing that what we're doing is valid," he says. "[People would say,]
'It's wonderful
 that you're coming out with all these great devices [that make use of
photonic crystals],
 but your building block doesn't even exist!'" That is no longer the case.

 Sandia is a multiprogram DOE laboratory, operated by a subsidiary of Lockheed
 Martin Corp. With main facilities in Albuquerque, N.M., and Livermore,
Calif., Sandia
 has major research and development responsibilities in national security,
energy, and
 environmental technologies.

###

 BACKGROUND: Technique Perfected In Building Surface-Etched
 Micromachines

 Shawn Lin and Jim Fleming achieved the desired crystalline spacing using
techniques
 perfected in building surface-etched micromachines, at which Sandia is a
world leader.

 Gears that spin require spaces between parts; specifically, a silicon base
is covered
 with an expendable coating in which a part can be etched, and then the
expendable
 portion is removed by chemical and mechanical means, leaving the gear or axle
 unencumbered by surrounding material and thus able to spin freely
 [www.mdl.sandia.gov/micromachines].

 Using a variant on the same technique, Fleming made an artificial crystal
lattice. He
 took a silicon wafer, coated it with silicon dioxide, cut trenches into
the silicon dioxide
 and then bathed the chip in polysilicon till it filled the trenches. Then
he polished the
 surface until smooth and bathed the chip in another layer of silicon
dioxide, into which
 he cut the same number of trenches as before, but so they lay across the
trenches
 beneath them at right angles, and then filled these trenches with
polysilicon.

 After repeating this process a number of time, Jim removed the silicon
dioxide, using
 hydrofluoric acid, and got "micron layers of Lincoln logs, orthogonal to
each other, and
 joined where they touch."

 Center to center, the polysilicon logs were 1.2 microns wide, 1.5 microns
high, with a
 pitch of 4.8 microns -- child's play to achieve in the world of silicon
micromachines.
 The proportions were identical to that specified by Ames Laboratory and
Iowa State
 researchers as those necessary to make the photonic equivalent of an
electronic band
 gap.

 Media Contact:

Neal Singer
nsinger@sandia.gov
(505) 845-7078

 Technical Contact :

Shawn Lin
slin@sandia.gov
(505) 844-8097

Jim Fleming
fleminjg@sandia.gov
(505) 844-9158

Del Owyoung
aowyoun@sandia.gov
(505) 884-5481
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------






**********************************************
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with the message:
     (un)subscribe ignition-point email@address
**********************************************
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**********************************************

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Christopher Barkley 
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 17:22:18 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Hello
Message-ID: <35FEE6CF.6FC2ED7E@srcm.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



You listed me in Six Degrees as your fellow alum, but I'm afraid I can't
place you.  So, who are you?

Cheers,
Christopher




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Lynne L. Harrison" 
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 17:11:36 +0800
To: "James A. Donald" 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980915181502.00838820@pop.mhv.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 06:21 AM 9/15/98 -0700, James A. Donald wrote:
>
>    --
>At 12:24 PM 9/14/98 -0400, Lynne L. Harrison wrote:
>> I don't see a power imbalance here.  If a young woman in 
>> her 20's invitingly flashes her thong panties at a man, I 
>> don't see how she can be portrayed as the victim.  
>
>According to the law applied to normal people, Monica was the
>victim.

What law?  This was consensual sex.  No law was broken.  Judgment and
morality, of course, are different issues.

> Also according to the law applied to normal people,
>Clinton was required to spill his guts about all of his sex
>life, because some women sued him, whereas the women suing
>was completely protected against any questions concerning her
>sex life.

Clinton, like anyone else, is required to tell the truth when being deposed
or testifying in front of a Grand Jury, i.e., making any statement under oath.

>These laws are flagrantly unjust, but the Democrats introduced
>them and applied them.  Feminists supported and continue to
>support Clinton precisely because he supported and supports
>laws that he flagrantly broke.  If these laws are to be
>repealed for politicians, they should be repealed for normal
>people as well.

I'm not in a position to comment because I'm not sure who the major players
were at the time the legislation was enacted.  Generally speaking, when the
president belongs to Party A, the majority of the Legislature belongs to
Party B.

Regarding political parties, I am an NPA (no party affiliation) and can
only vote in general elections.  I made this choice because I do not wish
to be "pigeon-holed" by a label imposed upon me as a result of belonging to
a given political party.  In the same vein, I am unable to speak for
"feminists", "normal people", "politicians", etc.  I speak only for myself. ;)

/end of Monica-Bill thread





***************************************************************************
Lynne L. Harrison, Esq.         |  "If we are all here,
Poughkeepsie, New York          |   then we are not
mailto:lharrison@dueprocess.com |   all there."
http://www.dueprocess.com       |      - old Zen saying
*************************************************************************

DISCLAIMER:  I am not your attorney; you are not my client.
             Accordingly, the above is *NOT* legal advice.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: AIMSX@aol.com
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 17:54:40 +0800
To: sunder@brainlink.com
Subject: Re: Larry Gilbert, AOLers, and the Hyper-real flamer
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Actually.. I am getting a SunOS Shell account this weekend.  AOL has improved
service somewhat, and it is now possible to use Netscape (or any other
browser) along with it.

I also have over 100 accounts on a local ISP - so trust me... it's not that
big of a deal for me to get another ISP, I just like some of the keywords and
a few other areas.

As for your thought that it is a CHOICE for everyone... well, I am sorry to
say it is not.  My parent would rather use the [semi]- user-friendly software
of AOL, which she is familiar with, than have a dialup access with browsers
and other utilities in different areas she can't find as easily.  (I know, it
sounds stupid.)

I was finally able to convince her to pay for a shell account, promising her I
would teach her how to use it.

As for me paying it... I just became old enough to work (finally) about a
month ago, and I am only making minimum wage, and the hours are not good
enough for me to be able to keep up my hobbies of paintball, computer
upgrades, and Internet alone.

Therefore... she pays for it, I wash dishes...
So anyway... before I get too sidetracked, I am just saying... I am finally
getting a shell account, and not all AOLers are stupid warez lovers that don't
know cu from cd.

I would also like to add - I wasn't even talking about AOL service (although I
agree it is really crappy - but a tad better than it used to be) I was just
talking about the insults to all AOL user's Intelligence.

I am sure there are morons on other ISP's, they are just more visible on AOL.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nnburk 
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 19:40:50 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Predictions: Crime and Criminal Justice in the 21st Century
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <35FF1A48.483A@yankton.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Tim May wrote:
> 
> Good post. The war is about to be joined.
> 

Thank you. My only regret is that I do not have a source. The material was 
provided by a local LEA from an unnamed "seminar."

> At 7:34 PM -0700 9/14/98, nnburk wrote:
> >4.      Terrorist acts by "fringe"/special issue groups will
> >increase at a significant rate -- becoming a major law enforcement
> >and security problem.
> 
> Freedom fighters, not terrorists.
> 

Yes. But I suppose like beauty, this is in the eye of the beholder. The 
victor writes the history books.


> >10.     With the decrease of the possibility of major global
> >warfare, the United States military will take on an increased
> >domestic "peace-keeping" role with America's law enforcement
> >agencies.
> 
> Posse comitatus is already becoming a moot point. The Army will be
> patrolling the streets within a few years, probably coterminous with Y2K
> problems and the resulting martial law.
> 

I doubt we have long to wait. They know it's coming too.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 12:03:37 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199809151705.TAA07717@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Hi,

There seems to be a problem posting anonymous messages to cypherpunks@ssz.com. I have posted several messages over the past week and *none* of them have showed up.

I am posting this as a test message. I am sending it to the following addresses:

cypherpunks@toad.com
cypherpunks@ssz.com
cypherpunks@algebra.com
cypherpunks@cyberpass.net

I will add the server name to the subject line for each post to test which messages are being delivered and which are not.

I AM TOTOCUS!!




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 12:12:32 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199809151706.TAA07763@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Hi,

There seems to be a problem posting anonymous messages to cypherpunks@ssz.com. I have posted several messages over the past week and *none* of them have showed up.

I am posting this as a test message. I am sending it to the following addresses:

cypherpunks@toad.com
cypherpunks@ssz.com
cypherpunks@algebra.com
cypherpunks@cyberpass.net

I will add the server name to the subject line for each post to test which messages are being delivered and which are not.

I AM TOTOCUS!!




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 12:05:15 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199809151706.TAA07769@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Hi,

There seems to be a problem posting anonymous messages to cypherpunks@ssz.com. I have posted several messages over the past week and *none* of them have showed up.

I am posting this as a test message. I am sending it to the following addresses:

cypherpunks@toad.com
cypherpunks@ssz.com
cypherpunks@algebra.com
cypherpunks@cyberpass.net

I will add the server name to the subject line for each post to test which messages are being delivered and which are not.

I AM TOTOCUS!!




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 12:06:04 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199809151707.TAA07821@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Hi,

There seems to be a problem posting anonymous messages to cypherpunks@ssz.com. I have posted several messages over the past week and *none* of them have showed up.

I am posting this as a test message. I am sending it to the following addresses:

cypherpunks@toad.com
cypherpunks@ssz.com
cypherpunks@algebra.com
cypherpunks@cyberpass.net

I will add the server name to the subject line for each post to test which messages are being delivered and which are not.

I AM TOTOCUS!!




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Edwin E. Smith" 
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 18:25:50 +0800
To: theforum@lists.execpc.com
Subject: Voices
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980915190932.007fb350@mailhost.IntNet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

One of the things I like about the internet, especially email, is 
that my voice and the voices of others are leveled. My voice can 
reach a multitude of people at least intelligent enough to get on the 
internet.

But better than that is my ability to receive the other voices is 
enhanced much more. I can hear what a lot of people hear without 
their voices being filtered by the likes of Dan Rather, Tom Brokay 
and the rest of the Liberal broadcast media. It fact is is mostly 
just limited to what I choose to listen to.

I also get to talk back to people with whom I disagree. I listen to 
their responses and sometimes modify my thinking. I also get 
affirmation of what I do believe from people of a like mind.

Occasionally I am surprised to find others who are different but also 
intelligent and very persuasive in their convictions. I revel in this 
controversy and learn much from it. I confess that sometimes I troll 
for flames to get the dialog going. If you have something to say, say 
it! Even the words of the clueless are sometimes enlightening.

To all of you who are offended by what you read or have been attacked 
and shirk away I say, stick around, learn and grow. The words which 
come to you can not hurt you if you don't let them. If you are to 
timid to endure a few flames then woe be unto you if anyone comes at 
you with actual violence on his mind.

Edwin E. Smith


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0
Charset: noconv

iQA/AwUBNf7zq0mNf6b56PAtEQLR+wCfQ7iXzmj5Gz9gtO09/0ogVzrpfawAoJUP
8qZqYluPFxHRt+srCM3vgXNd
=e9r4
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nnburk 
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 19:42:04 +0800
To: nobody@replay.com>
Subject: Re:
In-Reply-To: <199809151707.TAA07821@replay.com>
Message-ID: <35FF1E19.7FF4@yankton.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



No shit. And not just cypherpunks@ssz.com. Wonder if it has something to 
do with our fiendly domestic surveillance post-Toto attachment.

Anonymous wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> There seems to be a problem posting anonymous messages to cypherpunks@ssz.com. I have posted several messages over the past week 
and *none* of them have showed
> 
> I am posting this as a test message. I am sending it to the following addresses:
> 
> cypherpunks@toad.com
> cypherpunks@ssz.com
> cypherpunks@algebra.com
> cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
> 
> I will add the server name to the subject line for each post to test which messages are being delivered and which are not.
> 
> I AM TOTOCUS!!




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 18:51:41 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: CNN - Investigators find "assassination" page on the Web - September 15, 1998 (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809160016.TAA01658@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 06:53:53 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Alan Olsen 
> Subject: CNN - Investigators find "assassination" page on the Web - September 15, 1998 (fwd)

> http://www.cnn.com/TECH/computing/9809/15/internet.hit.list.ap/index.html

How come only the IRS is listed as related web sites?...


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 12:45:33 +0800
To: harald.fragner@idg.se
Subject: Re: Harald Fragner
Message-ID: <199809151737.TAA09935@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Of course I have issues!  That felcher Harald Fragner led me to believe
that through him, he would get me hooked up with Monica Lewinsky
through this six degrees thing!  I hear she really loves to party with
the geek-set!  That mother humper actually made me send him a
check in exchange for her private info, after which he takes me out
of his contact info!

I tell you what, it's monkey spankers like Harald Fragner that make this
six degrees service a real sham.  These toe fungus kissers need to be
taken out of six degrees!  I'm going to contact my congressman and
tell him to watch out for the likes of a camel snot taster like Harald
Fragner, if that's even his real name.  And I'm telling him to watch out
for you guys too!  You just watch it, you gerbil tubers!  You cheese
whiz fondlers!  You purveyors of cottage cheese and farm animals!
The government knows what you're up to!

Sincerely,
Joe Cypherpunk, dissatisfied customer at large


At 09:49 AM 9/15/98 -0500, sixdegrees wrote:
>Just a quick update from sixdegrees(tm). Unfortunately Harald 
>Fragner (harald@fragner.net) asked not to be listed as your 
>contact with sixdegrees.
>
>We also wanted to make sure you were aware that you currently 
>have no other confirmed contacts, so it will be hard for you to
>have a productive sixdegrees experience. As you probably know, 
>without any confirmed contacts, you won't get any results from our 
>networking searches. 
>
>So, we just wanted to recommend that you head over to 
>http://www.sixdegrees.com , log-in, and go to MY CONTACTS 
>to list additional relationships. 
>
>
>====================================================================
>PLEASE NOTE: All replies to this address are processed by a computer.
>If you have any problems, questions or requests send an e-mail to 
>issues@sixdegrees.com and someone will get back to you as soon as 
>possible.
>====================================================================
>
>
>E.DB.BRESP.3
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: AIMSX@aol.com
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 18:52:54 +0800
To: theforum@lists.execpc.com
Subject: Re: Voices
Message-ID: <63f52c6a.35fefb8e@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Preach on brother =)




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nnburk 
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 19:48:58 +0800
To: sunder@brainlink.com>
Subject: Re: Predictions: Crime and Criminal Justice in the 21st Century
In-Reply-To: <35FDD227.4C7D@yankton.com>
Message-ID: <35FF2647.77F8@yankton.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Sunder wrote:
> 
> nnburk wrote:
> >
> > Predictions: Crime and Criminal Justice in the 21st Century
> > ...
> > 2.      As the large pool of young people born in the early 1990s
> > become teenagers and young adults, there will be a dramatic
> > increase in violent crime around the year 2005-2010.
> 
> I don't necessarily see this.  What do you base this on?  

Um, actually, not _my_ predictions. Source was local LEA, obtained by them from some  
nameless seminar. (Sorry. Should have made that point clear earlier.)


> > 5.      As faith in the criminal justice system declines, there
> > will be a rise in vigilante-based incidents where citizens take
> > the enforcement of crime problems into their own hands.
> 
> The rest of your prediction sounds like you've watched Robocop a few times too
> many and actually BELIEVED it! :)  Care to back it up with reasons?
> 

See above.  Actually, haven't seen Robocop!




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mok-Kong Shen 
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 12:47:35 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Mersienne crack busted...
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <35FEA81D.6B7CD5B2@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Robert Hettinga wrote:
> 
> Somebody evidently installed the Mersienne(sp?) prime search client on
> 2000+ AT&T machines.
> 
> The local talk station news has a report that they have just been
> apprehended and will be prosecuted for it.

Mersenne.

Perhaps the company should be grateful that someone has helped
to spot a hole in security, since the hacker has apparently done
no really serious damages except computing time.

M. K. Shen




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Edwin E. Smith" 
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 19:11:19 +0800
To: 
Subject: Re: Voices
In-Reply-To: <63f52c6a.35fefb8e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980915200546.007c4330@mailhost.IntNet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

That reminds me of a line from All Creatures Great and Small, about a 
flatulent dog, "Speak on sweet lips! truer words were never spoken."

Edwin

At 07:43 PM 9/15/98 EDT, you wrote:
>Preach on brother =)
>
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0
Charset: noconv

iQA/AwUBNf8A2UmNf6b56PAtEQLJLgCdHDNFfk6mZnpQi9UGtrlTUvGebMwAoN6u
kvQiuoyegMpuIXHfUmqbFxQS
=wEvm
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: AIMSX@aol.com
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 19:31:28 +0800
To: edsmith@IntNet.net
Subject: Re: Voices
Message-ID: <65e46469.35ff051e@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I read that book 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Edwin E. Smith" 
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 19:43:57 +0800
To: 
Subject: Re: Voices
In-Reply-To: <65e46469.35ff051e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980915203143.007c3af0@mailhost.IntNet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Shit! Now you got me to wondering. Which book?

At 08:23 PM 9/15/98 EDT, you wrote:
>I read that book 
>
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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9V1srpx4uXxeYmYMN2hEuE40
=fo/N
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 22:45:24 +0800
To: Jaeger 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 7:27 PM -0700 9/15/98, Jaeger wrote:
>hey, would you care to show us where "seperation of church and state" is
>to be found in the constitution/bill of rights?  absolute right and

Gee, check out the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. Also the first
item in the Bill of Rights. "Congress shall make no law respecting the
establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."
(from memory, so don't bother me with minor wording corrections.)

By standard convention, this is also referred to as "separation of church
and state."

As with the clueless AOLers yakking about an "Assimov" story they read a
couple of years ago in the 5th grade, you bozos need to get educated and
spend a minute or two thinking before writing.


--Tim May

(This space left blank pending determ. of acceptability to the gov't.)
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "sixdegrees"<8kmc50f5@auto.sixdegrees.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 20:00:23 +0800
To: "Joe Cypherpunk"
Subject: Christopher Barkley
Message-ID: <199809160055.RAA14864@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Just a quick update from sixdegrees(tm). Unfortunately Christopher 
Barkley (barkley@cirr.com) asked not to be listed as your 
contact with sixdegrees.

The good news is that since you have other confirmed contacts, 
you'll still be able to have a productive sixdegrees experience. 
But, if you want to continue to increase your networking power, 
you may want to head over to http://www.sixdegrees.com , log-in 
and go to MY CONTACTS and list additional contacts. 


====================================================================
PLEASE NOTE: All replies to this address are processed by a computer.
If you have any problems, questions or requests send an e-mail to 
issues@sixdegrees.com and someone will get back to you as soon as 
possible.
====================================================================




E.DB.BRESP.2




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Christopher Barkley 
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 20:00:58 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Regards
Message-ID: <35FF0C5A.C1F80B6B@srcm.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Apparently, I just spammed your list a couple of days ago; my
apologies.  Some zithead listed your email address in the Six Degrees
networking service and starting asking people to be his contacts.  One
can only hope his fate is neither swift nor pretty.  (I bear some of the
blame; I should have recognized the email address since I have several
friends on the list.)

At any rate, my thanks to Tom Perry for his polite explanation of the
situation.

As for the REST of you who responded, you have my sympathies.  With any
luck, they'll get that thorazine prescription refilled soon.

Cheerio,
Christopher




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 14:14:06 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199809151914.VAA17736@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Nothing on this end filters unless it comes from/to:

cypherpunks-unedited@toad.com
mosexpo.ru
fw9.telekom.edu
any.where.com

I filter these because the dumbshit's at mosexpo.ru keep sending messages
with munged headers that fill up postmaser's mailbox with delivery failure
messages. I got tired of using the 'd' key. But even in this case, I only
filter *after* I've forwarded the traffic to the other nodes.

The only other quirk I'm aware of regarding anon posts are ones without
subjects, in which case I get a notice that the Japanese node is dropping
it because it doesn't have headers. This should come as no surprise as I've
made mention several times on this issue.

-----

The post I made earlier went through without a problem, but as I mentioned in my original post I had made several anon posts through replay.com to cypherpunks@ssz.com and they never made it to the list.

I also noticed that replay.com seems to be striping the subject from the posts as in my last post I *did* put a subject line on the message but it arrived to the list without one.

In the messages I sent, a couple of them I used a chain of remailers but when they failed to appear I sent the remaining messages through replay.com only (using the https interface to send the messages).

It may have just been a problem on replay's end but on all the posts I did get a conformation page that the messages had been accepted.

Odd.

I AM TOTOCUS!!!




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Scott Porterfield 
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 20:22:35 +0800
To: sixdegrees 
Subject: Re: Harald Fragner
In-Reply-To: <199809151350.GAA08886@toad.com>
Message-ID: <35FF10F0.B0B326C9@sylvania.sev.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



How do I get off this list!!!  

Bob




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jaeger 
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 21:35:34 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Democracy...
In-Reply-To: <19980915210638.14549.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <35FF220A.F88B87F6@hempseed.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



hey, would you care to show us where "seperation of church and state" is
to be found in the constitution/bill of rights?  absolute right and
wrong is not a religious belief (necessarily)..  your religious beliefs
do not affect the nature of reality.  there are absolute truths by
necessity...  see, there is NO WAY that there could not be.  Because if
there were no absolute truths, then that would mean that NOTHING is
absolute.  That statement in itself is an absolute.  now, as for
absolute truths regarding the president, there may or may not be any as
far as most people are concerned.  people always seem to make an
exception for people who agree with them...  in order to be an effective
president, however, one must uphold the very basis of this country, by
upholding the law.  Clinton perjured himself, obstructed justice, and
tampered with witnesses in a grand jury investigation (which was
incidentally  being conducted by a man who was praised just months
earlier as unbiased and very qualified for the job).  The man is
supposed to be the figurehead for our system of gov't.  If he cannot
follow the law, then he is not fit for the office.

Jaeger

> Ever heard of seperation of church and state? Democracy? the rights of
>
> the individual?  While you certainly have the right to practice your
> religion in what ever manner you so choose demanding that everyone
> else
> does, or that the president of the us of ais subject to you PERSONAL
> faith decisions is outragous
>
> Vivek Vaidya
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: anon@zd.com
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 20:38:24 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: FWD: Clinton administration will ease grip on crypto exports
Message-ID: <199809160128.VAA27836@u5.zdnet.com.>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



This message was forwarded to you from ZDNet (http://www.zdnet.com) by anon@zd.com.

Comment from sender:
The dance of the seven regs continues.....

   ---------------------------------------------------------------------

   This article is from ZDNN (http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/).
   Visit this page on the Web at:
   http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/zdnn_smgraph_display/0,4436,2138029,00.html

   ---------------------------------------------------------------------


   [IMAGE]
   By Will Rodger, Inter@ctive Week Online
   September 15, 1998 5:39 PM PT

   The Clinton Administration is expected to relax export controls on
   data scrambling equipment Wednesday, preparing the ground for yet
   another round of debate over current encryption policy.

   According to Administration sources, the White House will loosen its
   grip on the technology in several areas central to the five-year
   argument over the issue. Among other things, the new policy will relax
   controls for sales to specific industries, including e-commerce,
   medicine and insurance

   The liberalization will fall far short of what Administration critics
   wanted. Even so, many crypto advocates expressed hope their position
   will continue to gain ground.

   "It's not as far along as my bill would go, but it's a significant
   improvement on our current policy," said Rep. Zoe Lofgren, D-Calif., a
   sponsor of encryption liberalization legislation in the House and one
   of several key Democrats briefed on the issue on the last two days.
   "It will still give us something to argue about next year."

   [TABLE NOT SHOWN] Electronic encryption, or the process of scrambling
   information so that only its intended recipient can read it, is widely
   believed to be the sine qua non of secure commerce and personal
   information on an insecure Internet. To date, however, Federal policy
   has required stringent licensing of encryption technology that uses
   digital codes, or "keys," longer than 40 bits in length. Law
   enforcement has insisted on that restriction so that the encoding
   technology cannot be used to thwart surveillance techniques used in
   investigations.

   Current exceptions will expand
   Under an exception granted in December 1996, however, the government
   has allowed exports of equipment whose keys are as long as 56 bits, or
   roughly 64,000 times more powerful than 40-bit products. That
   exception was granted companies that committed to develop technologies
   to give law enforcement "lawful access" to messages encrypted with
   their products through various back doors built into them.

   Notably free from those restrictions have been foreign financial
   institutions, which in most cases have been able to buy U.S.-made
   encryption software of unlimited strength since last year.

   That exception will be broadened under the new policy, sources said.
   Now, insurance companies, handlers of medical records and companies
   that use specialized transaction software to do business over the
   Internet will be able to buy American encryption software after a
   one-time review of their purchase plans by the U.S. Commerce
   Department. In addition, administration sources confirmed Tuesday
   evening, the government will no longer require prior approval of "key
   recovery" agents, who hold spare keys to encoded messages for law
   enforcement.

   Some 45 nations, including Russia, China, Venezuela and Mexico, will
   likely be ineligible for the relief control as long as the U.S.
   government believes they harbor money-laundering operations, however.

   Finally, administration sources said, any U.S. company will be able to
   export powerful encryption technology to its own subsidiaries as long
   as it does not share the technology with non-US companies.

   Playing catch-up
   As before, public interest groups said they believe the new policy
   does not go far enough. Since Vice President Al Gore promised relief
   for medical records, e-commerce and financial institutions some two
   years ago, critics said the policy is more a belated catch-up than
   anything truly new.

   "It's a divide and conquer strategy," said David Banisar, policy
   counsel with the Electronic Privacy Information Center. "This will
   help a few large users, but the average consumer is out in the cold."

   Wednesday's announcement is only the latest step in a years-long
   journey from complete control to liberalization. Though the FBI and
   others within the national security apparatus have insisted on tight
   controls, information technology companies and public interest groups
   have fought them bitterly, insisting a flood of foreign products will
   soon take over a world market which was once almost exclusively
   America's. As foreign producers have mounted - more than 500 foreign
   products are now stronger than what can usually be exported from the
   US - that pressure has increased.

   Technology marches on
   The steady march of computer technology, too, has rendered once-secure
   products obsolete; the Electronic Frontier Foundation, for instance,
   unveiled a computer last June which can crack messages encrypted with
   56-bit keys in hours. Until recently, the FBI had claimed such
   messages could be cracked only in a matter of months, if not years.

   Dan Scheinman, vice president for legal and government affairs at
   Internet hardware producer Cisco Systems Inc., said the latest
   proposal wasn't his company had hoped for. Even so, "Anything that
   provides broader relief is a step in the right direction," he said.

   In the administration's defense
   Meanwhile, the administration has its defenders. Stewart Baker, former
   counsel to the super-secret, encryption-controlling National Security
   Agency and an attorney who negotiates export agreements for industry,
   called on critics to give the administration more credit.

   "I think this is a significant walking away from an emphasis on
   law-enforcement access," he said. "What this says is if there's a
   market for security, we ought to think about liberalizing. It's a big
   step and it foreshadows more."

   ---------------------------------------------------------------------

   Copyright (c) 1998 ZDNet. All rights reserved. Reproduction in whole
   or in part in any form or medium without express written permission of
   ZDNet is prohibited. ZDNet and the ZDNet logo are trademarks of
   Ziff-Davis Inc.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 21:04:45 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Voices (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809160229.VAA02825@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 21:46:59 EDT
> To: edsmith@IntNet.net
> Subject: Re: Voices

> I also read an Aasimov a while back in fifth grade - unfortunately, I can't
> remember even the name... I need to pick some of his books up again... 
> One book I can remember reading since 5th grade (and every summer thereafter)
> is "IT" by Stephen King - one of his few really good books.  I have read it 8
> times since.
> I greatly recommend it =)

Stephen King is no horror writer, he's a pussy wanna be. If you want a really
good author then check out Poppy Z. Brite.

Lost Souls (read this one first) 
Drawing Blood
Exquisite Corpse (if you've ever wondered if you were the least bit
                  homophobic, when you finish this one you'll know)

You'll either read about 2-3 pages and quit in utter refulsion and disgust
or else you'll be hooked.

Sombody else to try is:

Grave markings
Michael A. Arnzen

Ann Rice? Give me a break...


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 23:30:12 +0800
To: "Lynne L. Harrison" 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980915212954.008c0100@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> > As for Monica-Clinton, what appears to be the case doesn't matter 
> > in some ideologies. 
> > Can meaningful consent be given with such a power imbalance?

>I don't see a power imbalance here.  If a young woman in her 20's
>invitingly flashes her thong panties at a man, I don't see how she can be
>portrayed as the victim.  The only way that the issue of power arises is
>that Monica was not overwhelmed by someone in power - she was attracted to
>the power.

Obviously you Just Don't Get It.  :-)
The argument tends to be along the lines that if power weren't
so disparate, she wouldn't have to resort to sexual bribery to get 
what she wants, she could just take it, or trade for it as an equal.

>On another but connected note, explain why Monica saved that dress!  I
>found this little tidbit to be the "yuck" factor...

Because, not being totally stupid about Clinton, she thought it might
be convenient to have some evidence around after the fact?
Whether that's for emotional blackmail, or basic blackmail, 
or life insurance, or for convincing Hillary that Bill was hers now, 
or convincing some future publisher that she hadn't made it all up, 
or just because it seemed like it might turn out to be useful in the future,
who knows.  Lots of possibilities.  Or maybe it was just a memento
of a lovely evening :-)  Or of a time when she had the President
wrapped around her little finger.
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 23:31:04 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Predictions: Crime and Criminal Justice in the 21st Century
In-Reply-To: <35FDD227.4C7D@yankton.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 10:22 AM -0700 9/15/98, Sunder wrote:
>nnburk wrote:
>>
>> Predictions: Crime and Criminal Justice in the 21st Century
>>
>> 1.      The United States will experience a significant economic
>> recession/crisis very close to the turn of the Century.
>
>I see this as well and agree with it.  The recent stock market rocking
>back and
>forth is a sign that something sucks, and sucks badly.

Actually, I think much too much is being made of utterly _tiny_ percentage
moves in the stock market. The "Big Crash" a couple of weeks ago was the
"second largest point loss in the the history of the Dow Jones Industrial
Average."

Ah, but it was only #58 in terms of percentage.

And so on. The "rocking back and forth" is well within historical
standards. In fact, it's much less than we've seen at other times in the
past 25 years.

--Tim May

(This space left blank pending determ. of acceptability to the gov't.)
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Albert P. Franco, II" 
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 14:34:50 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: IP: Impeachment Petition -- NOT!
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980915213638.006a471c@apf2.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 11:54:36 -0400
>From: Ray Arachelian 
>Organization: SunderNET
>X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (WinNT; I)
>To: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
>CC: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
>Subject: Re: IP: Impeachment Petition -- NOT!
>Sender: owner-cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
>Reply-To: Ray Arachelian 
>X-Loop: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
>
>So much for this being a working thing:
>
>Anyone else get a bounce?
>
>Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 11:20:14 -0400
>From: System Administrator 
>To: sunder@sundernet.com
>Subject: Undeliverable: Impeach Clinton Now!
>
>
I sent mine to Vic Fazio (D-CA) about six hours ago and no bounce yet.
Maybe it's your rep's system that's down.

:)




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: AIMSX@aol.com
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 20:53:16 +0800
To: edsmith@IntNet.net
Subject: Re: Voices
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



All Creatures Great and Small - that one... =)

I also read an Aasimov a while back in fifth grade - unfortunately, I can't
remember even the name... I need to pick some of his books up again... 
One book I can remember reading since 5th grade (and every summer thereafter)
is "IT" by Stephen King - one of his few really good books.  I have read it 8
times since.
I greatly recommend it =)




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 23:46:03 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Democracy...
In-Reply-To: <19980915210638.14549.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 9:09 PM -0700 9/15/98, Jaeger wrote:
>well, the first amendment is what I expected to be used...
>unfortunately, the phrase "...wall of separation between church and
>state" is not taken from the first amendment.  It is taken from a letter
>written by Thomas Jefferson...  and the meaning is not that church
>shouldn't have an effect on the state.  The state CAN support one
>religion over another.

Ah, it's the appearance of a new ranter arguing for some bizarre,
idiosyncratic interpretation of the Bill of Rights and suchlike. Mr.
Jaeger, meet Mr. Choate.

Your notion that the state can support one religion over another so long as
it does not "restrict" the other will surely be news to the many who have
studied this issue for centuries. In particular, all those legal decisions
which got Christian manger scenes removed from public buildings, and which
got "Jesus Loves Sinners, Even Jews" removed from our coinage, will surely
now have to be reversed.

 > The state CAN make laws that encourage the practice of any one
>particular religion, as long as the laws do not RESTRICT the PRACTICE of
>other religions.


Bizarre. Try Ritalin. This has helped some list members cope.

--Tim May


(This space left blank pending determ. of acceptability to the gov't.)
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 21:57:23 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Democracy... (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809160322.WAA03057@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 21:27:23 -0500
> From: Jaeger 
> Subject: Re: Democracy...

> hey, would you care to show us where "seperation of church and state" is
> to be found in the constitution/bill of rights?  absolute right and

				ARTICLE I. 
 
	Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, 
or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of 
speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, 
and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. 
 

				ARTICLE X. 
 
	The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, 
nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, 
or to the people. 
 
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

The 1st prevents the government from regulating religion, even to the point
of having the authority to define what a religion is. This includes smoking
dope, raping little babies, whatever. It *IS NOT* an issue within the
guidelines of the Constitution for the *federal* government, Period, end of
story. Note that it does *not* prevent religions from participating in the
government. They could regulate any commerce of those churches that cross
state lines.

The 10th says that unless the state you happen to live in regulates religion
through a representative form of government via their own constitution then
the practice and limits of religion are to be decided by the individual.

Don't like it?

Get a god damned amendment passed modifying or nullifying one or both of the
above amendments.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Edwin E. Smith" 
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 21:38:40 +0800
To: theforum@lists.execpc.com
Subject: A definition of EVIL.
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980915223228.007ac4d0@mailhost.IntNet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



A LIFE-AND-DEATH ISSUE

To proceed we need at least a working definition. It is a reflection of the
enormous mystery of the subject that we do not have a generally accepted
definition of evil. Yet in our hearts I think we all have some
understanding of its nature. For the moment I can do no better than to heed
my son, who, with the characteristic vision of eight-year-olds, explained
simply, "Why, Daddy, evil is 'live' spelled backward." Evil is in
opposition to life. It is that which opposes the life force. It has, in
short, to do with killing. Specifically, it has to do with murder-namely,
unnecessary killing, killing that is not required for biological survival.

from "People of the Lie" by M. Scott Peck, M.D.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jaeger 
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 23:19:24 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Democracy...
In-Reply-To: <19980915210638.14549.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <35FF39DF.3F322C4A@hempseed.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



well, the first amendment is what I expected to be used...
unfortunately, the phrase "...wall of separation between church and
state" is not taken from the first amendment.  It is taken from a letter
written by Thomas Jefferson...  and the meaning is not that church
shouldn't have an effect on the state.  The state CAN support one
religion over another.  In context, the phrase simply explains that the
government can't make laws that RESTRICT religious practice or doctrinal
issues.  The state CAN make laws that encourage the practice of any one
particular religion, as long as the laws do not RESTRICT the PRACTICE of
other religions.  Making people uncomfortable isn't a constitutional
reason to overturn a law.

btw, notice the wording in the first amendment...it only restricts gov't
restrictions on religion.

Jaeger

> Gee, check out the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. Also the
> first
> item in the Bill of Rights. "Congress shall make no law respecting the
>
> establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."
>
> (from memory, so don't bother me with minor wording corrections.)
>
> By standard convention, this is also referred to as "separation of
> church
> and state."
>
> As with the clueless AOLers yakking about an "Assimov" story they read
> a
> couple of years ago in the 5th grade, you bozos need to get educated
> and
> spend a minute or two thinking before writing.
>






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Dave Emery 
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 22:40:19 +0800
To: "Brian B. Riley" 
Subject: Re: radio net
In-Reply-To: <199809152029.QAA03672@mx02.together.net>
Message-ID: <19980915234145.G26390@die.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Tue, Sep 15, 1998 at 04:29:06PM -0400, Brian B. Riley wrote:
> On 9/6/98 6:20 PM, Steve Schear (schear@lvcm.com)  passed this wisdom:
> 

> >It think it was Phil Karn (Qualcomm) who once mused that it would be rather
> >straightforward to masquarade a high process gain SS signal on a commercial
> >satellite transponder. To it's owners the SS signal would be almost
> >invisible, making itself known as only a very slight depression in the
> >transponder's gain. Effectively, this could offer an inexpensive covert
> >channel for tunneling packets and thwarting traffic analysis.
> >
> >After the Captain Midnight episode I discussed this possibility with a very
> >technically knowledgeable staffer at the FCC and was assured that discovery
> >of such signals were beyond (at that time) the ability of commercial and
> >national technical (e.g., Lacrosse) means.
> 
>  I would suppose the T-hunt aspects of a clandestine network would be 
> obviated by piggybacking it into a commercial satellite transponder 
> channels ... which brings to mind about how expensive one or two of those 
> channeles might be. I remeber in the early days of ham packet radio we 
> had several 'wormholes' where hams had obtained through their places of 
> employemnt temporary use of unused satellite channels where we were given 
> essentially RS232 access and we adapted the packet switches to an async 
> backchannel in place of another synch RF path. They did make for some 
> intersting network improvements. I guess it always comes down to how do 
> you fund such things.

	At one time I had some involvement with a company renting
satellite space, and the figure of around $1500 to $3000 a month for a
voice channel capable of being used on small VSAT sized dishes was
passed around.  It depends on how much bandwidth and power the channel
uses which in turn depends on how big the dishes are (G/T to be exact).
Bigger dishes mean weaker signals on the satellite and lower charges. I
could probably find out the formula used to price the service...

	I suspect that the cost of equipment and licensing and regulatory
compliance of various sorts might make it unpleasant for loosely knit
groups of private citizens - uplinks require competant installation
and maintainence to keep them from causing interference to other users
and various other problems such as RF radiation hazards under control.

	On the other hand, satellites are crawling with little signals
transmitting streams of data or voice or music to groups of receivers
scattered over wide geographic areas, so the econmics aren't prohibitive
for people who have some real need...

-- 
	Dave Emery N1PRE,  die@die.com  DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass. 
PGP fingerprint = 2047/4D7B08D1 DE 6E E1 CC 1F 1D 96 E2  5D 27 BD B0 24 88 C3 18




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 01:57:14 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: SNET: National ID Cards- world wide phenomenon
Message-ID: <199809160658.XAA22977@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: jeremy.compton@stonebow.otago.ac.nz (Jeremy Compton)
Subject: SNET: National ID Cards- world wide phenomenon
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 14:03:47 +1200
To: snetnews@world.std.com


->  SNETNEWS  Mailing List

http://www.privacy.org/pi/activities/i dcard/"
National ID Cards

Many countries are actively considering adopting national id cards for a
variety of functions. These
include the United States, United Kingdom and Canada. Over the past seven
years, Privacy International
has been at the forefront of opposing these proposals in a number of
countries including Australia, New
Zealand, the Phillippines, Thailand, the United Kingdom and the United States.

These pages are an attempt to bring together materials based on PI members'
experiences on opposing
the proposals. While each jurisdictions may have local variations, the
themes remain remarkably similar
no matter where the proposals are heard. Our intention here is to discuss
the evidence at an international
level and to promote debate about the claims made about such card systems.



Privacy International Materials

       Privacy International's ID Card FAQ. Frequently Asked Questions
report on id cards. (7000 words)

       Campaigns of Opposition to ID Cards. A review and analysis of the
successful campaign to kill the Australia
       Card in 1987.

       Personal views from around the world on ID cards.


The UK Government ID Card Proposal

       The UK ID card proposal was quietly set aside in 1996.

       UK Home Office Green Paper "Identity Cards - A Consultation"

       Home Office press release on id cards, 24 January 1996.

       Central Computer and Telecommunications Agency report, Smart cards:
Opportunities for public sector
       applications.

       Response of the Data Protection Registrar to the Government's
proposals for Identity Cards.

       The Green Paper on Identity Cards: A response from the Centre for
Computing and Social Responsibility by
       Simon Rogerson.

       "Identity Crisis: why ID cards are a solution looking for a problem"
by Liz Parratt from Liberty.

       "IDENTITY CARDS: Data protection implications" by Chris Pounder,
Data Protection News (UK).

       State of the Nation articles on national ID cards.

       Social, Legal and Professional Aspects of Computing ID Cards.

       "Britain Discussing National ID Card System", Newsbytes, 03/28/95.


Other Reports and Materials

       "TOUCHING BIG BROTHER: How biometric technology will fuse flesh and
machine" by Simon Davies.

       "Smart Cards: Big Brother's Little Helpers" by The Privacy Committee
of New South Wales, Australia.

       Chip-Based ID: Promise and Peril by Rober Clarke, Australian
National Univeristy.

       Human Identification in Information Systems: Management Challenges
and Public Policy Issues by Roger
       Clarke.

       Identification, Anonymity and Pseudonymity in Consumer Transactions:
A Vital Systems Design and Public
       Policy Issue by Roger Clarke.

       1991 Hungarian Supreme Court decision stricking down use of ID numbers.

       Smart Card Magazine, The Birth of Smart Cards: 1980.

       Electronic Privacy Information Center's pages on current national ID
card proposals in the United States.

News Stories

       TORONTO STAR, February 9th, 1996; Lead Editorial: HARRIS SHOULD
SCRAP UNIVERSAL ID
       CARD.

       `Smart cards' will soon be approved, says health policy committee by
chairperson by TOM ARNOLD, The
       Edmonton Journal.

       Canadian Privacy boss raps ID cards, The Canadian Press, July 15, 1995.

       Privacy commissioner in the dark about ID cards: Wants controls put
on access, The Vancouver Province,
       September 27, 1995.

       AsiaWeek, ID Cards Introduced in Philippines.

       Greece to Demand Religion on National ID Cards, 2 May 1993.

       Unisys press release on Spain national ID card project.




Return to Privacy International's Home Page

Last updated July 16, 1997.



-> Send "subscribe   snetnews " to majordomo@world.std.com
->  Posted by: jeremy.compton@stonebow.otago.ac.nz (Jeremy Compton)




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 01:57:06 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: SNET: (Fwd) Radio Show on CIA
Message-ID: <199809160658.XAA22988@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: "Steve Wingate" 
Subject: SNET: (Fwd) Radio Show on CIA
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 19:28:26 -0700
To: "CIA.DRUGS" , SNETNEWS , CTRL@LISTSERV.AOL.COM


->  SNETNEWS  Mailing List

------- Forwarded Message Follows -------
From:          Expert53@aol.com
Date:          Mon, 14 Sep 1998 14:44:04 EDT
Subject:       Radio Show on CIA

THE EXPERT WITNESS RADIO SHOW
WBAI  New York City
99.5  FM
Expert53@aol.co
 212-209-2800 (voice mail #2970)

Host: Michael Levine, 25 Year veteran federal agent and author of NY Times
bestseller "DEEP COVER" - (just optioned for movie) "THE BIG WHITE LIE" -The
fact-based thriller (now in paperback), THE TRIANGLE OF DEATH, based on
actual, never-before-revealed events from CIA's hunt for mind control drugs  

WEB SITES:

http://www.radio4all.org/expert - Past  radio shows may be downloaded free of
charge; includes books, photos and opinion articles. 

http://www.universalprosthesis.com/news/expert.html  -  includes the ability
to order tapes of the old shows, at cost, $8 per show.

FIGHT BACK ANTI-DRUG PROGRAM:
http://idt.net/~dorisaw

 TUESDAY EVENING, 7-8pm, Septeber 15, 1998,  on WBAI, 99.5 FM in NYC, the
Expert Witness Radio Show will feature a discussion with journalists Alexander
Cockburn and Jeffrey St. Clair about their recent book "WHITEOUT"-a powerful
and well documented analysis of CIA's manipulation of mainstream media to
cover up massive "Three Stooges" ineptitude and criminality.
 The show will be rebroadcast a week later on the Roy Tuckan Show, KPFK, Los
Angeles, CA, and then archived on the above listed web sites.

-> Send "subscribe   snetnews " to majordomo@world.std.com
->  Posted by: "Steve Wingate" 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 01:57:30 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: DNA-Powered Computers: Patent Received
Message-ID: <199809160658.XAA23001@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: DNA-Powered Computers: Patent Received
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 10:31:49 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  New York Times
http://www.nytimes.com/yr/mo/day/news/financial/patents.html

September 14, 1998

PATENTS

Solve Computer Problems With DNA

By TERESA RIORDAN

Four years ago, Dr. Leonard Adleman raised the exciting possibility of
DNA-powered supercomputers when he wrote in the journal Science that he had
solved a computational problem essentially by stirring up some DNA in a
test tube, using building blocks of DNA as computing symbols. 

The technique, in concept, involves the use of DNA -- strands of genetic
code -- as a stand-in for computer software code. 

Adleman, a professor at the University of Southern California, set up his
problem by synthesizing DNA in a certain sequence and then letting DNA
molecules react in a test tube so they ultimately produce a molecule
whose sequence is the answer to the problem. 

He used the chemical units of DNA rather than electronic 1s and 0s to solve
a single, relatively simple problem: figuring out the shortest distance
someone would have to travel to visit a number of different cities --
similar to a standard math problem referred to as the "traveling salesman
tour problem." 

But last week Dr. Warren Smith and Dr. Allan Schweitzer, two scientists at
the NEC Research Institute in Princeton, N.J., received what appears to be
the first patent covering a DNA computing process that at least
theoretically can solve not just a single problem but a broad array of
problems, just as a conventional desktop computer might. 

The patent describes a way to concoct a vat of DNA molecules that have been
manipulated by standard biotechnology techniques -- such as the cutting,
splicing and growing of DNA strands -- to behave like
miniature computers.  

All these molecular-size computers would operate in parallel, with each one
exploring different possible computational paths to solve a problem,
potentially speeding up computing time greatly. 

The patent details a way to use genetic material to construct a large
number of what are called Turing machines, all running in parallel, with
each exploring different possible computational paths. (A Turing machine is
a theoretical construct, first proposed in 1937 by the British computer
scientist Alan Turing, that provides the schematic outline upon which
digital computers are based.) 

Despite the new patent, Smith does not sound optimistic these days about
the patented technique. 

"Some of the DNA molecules do the right step," he said in an interview,
describing the process. "But then some other fraction just dissolve and get
flushed down the drain." 

This and other problems lead to an exponential buildup in errors during the
calculations. In addition, the operations of this DNA computing so far are
slow-going, taking hours. 

"This does appear to be the first patent to issue in this area," said David
Waltz, an NEC vice president. "But will this be the basis of a new
industry, and will everyone have to take out a license on it in the future?
That's not so clear." 

Smith and Schweitzer received patent number 5,804,373. 

Patents are available by number for $3 from the Patent and Trademark
Office, Washington, D.C. 20231. 

 Copyright 1998 The New York Times Company
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




**********************************************
To subscribe or unsubscribe, email:
     majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com
with the message:
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**********************************************
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 02:14:55 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: SNET: [FP] FW: Arkansas: Digital/Biometric Drivers License System
Message-ID: <199809160716.AAA24458@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: "ScanThisNews"  (by way of jeremy.compton@stonebow.otago.ac.nz (Jeremy Compton))
Subject: SNET: [FP] FW: Arkansas: Digital/Biometric Drivers License System
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 15:01:36 +1200
To: snetnews@world.std.com


->  SNETNEWS  Mailing List

[forwarded message]

Source:  PR Newswire
http://www.prnewswire.com

Viisage Technology, Inc. to Provide Statewide Digital Drivers License
System In Arkansas

    LITTLETON, Mass., Sept. 14 /PRNewswire/ -- Viisage Technology, Inc.
(Nasdaq: VISG), a leader in the emerging field of biometrics technology and
in providing digital identification systems and solutions, has been awarded
a $10.4 million contract by the State of Arkansas to provide a new digital
drivers license system with 158 locations across the State.

    Mike Munns, Arkansas Administrator of Driver Services, said, "We
conducted a comprehensive process to identify the best system value for
Arkansas drivers while seeking to improve the quality of service in our
offices and obtain the best technology available.  Viisage not only met
these requirements, they also demonstrated an understanding of our needs
and a commitment to be a true partner in this important project."

    Tom Colatosti, Viisage Vice President and COO, said, "We are pleased
about the opportunity to partner with the Arkansas Office of Driver
Services to provide Arkansas drivers with leadership technology and the
most secure licenses available.  The Arkansas contract will be managed by
the company's systems integration and identification card division that was
established in May 1998 when the company reorganized to create separate
systems integration and biometrics divisions.  This contract increases the
company's market share in the drivers license business and will contribute
to the growth and profitability of the systems integration and
identification card division."

    Bob Hughes, Viisage President and CEO, said, "The biometrics division
will continue to raise capital and invest profits, as needed, to develop
its unique facial recognition technology and products.  These products will
be sold through channels, including the company's systems integration
division, for identification, verification, security and other biometric
applications. Biometrics technology and, in particular, Viisage's facial
recognition technology are receiving intense interest from many market
segments.  Viisage seeks to achieve long term growth and profitability by
penetrating these new markets and developing products to meet market needs."

    With the Arkansas contract, Viisage systems provide more than 100
million digital identification cards under contracts for drivers license
programs in Arizona, Florida, Illinois, Massachusetts, New Mexico, North
Carolina, Ohio and Wisconsin, and for social services programs in
Connecticut, Massachusetts and New York.  Other Viisage projects include
voter registration programs in Jamaica and the Philippines and programs
with the Ohio Department of Corrections and the U.S. Department of
Treasury's Immigration and Naturalization Service.  Viisage also has
the world's largest facial recognition database with projects in
Massachusetts and Illinois.

    Viisage is a leading provider of digital identification systems and
solutions intended to improve personal convenience and security, deter
fraud and reduce identification program costs.  The company combines its
systems integration and software design capabilities with its proprietary
software and hardware products to create custom solutions in a wide range
of applications that can include national ID's, drivers licenses, law
enforcement, voter registration, social services, access control and
information, healthcare, financial services and retail. Viisage has also
devoted significant resources to become a leader in the emerging field
of biometrics with particular emphasis on patented facial recognition
technology for real-time and large database identification and verification
of individuals.  Viisage can be found on the World Wide Web at
http://www.viisage.com.

    This news release may contain forward-looking statements that involve
risks and uncertainties.  Forward-looking statements in this document and
those made from time to time by the Company through its senior management
are made pursuant to the safe harbor provisions of the Private Securities
Litigation Reform Act of 1995.  Forward-looking statements concerning
future plans or results are necessarily only estimates and actual results
could differ materially from expectations.  Certain factors that could
cause or contribute to such differences include, among other things,
potential fluctuations in quarterly results, the size and timing of award
and performance on contracts, dependence on large contracts and a limited
number of customers, lengthy sales and implementation cycles, changes in
management estimates incident to accounting for contracts, availability and
cost of key components, market acceptance of new or enhanced products and
services, proprietary technology and changing technology, competitive
conditions, system performance, management of growth, dependence on key
personnel and general economic and political conditions and other factors
affecting spending by customers.

SOURCE Viisage Technology, Inc.
Web Site: http://www.viisage.com

(c)1998 PR Newswire.
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------

-----Original Message-----
From: believer@telepath.com [mailto:believer@telepath.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 1998 9:51 AM
To: believer@telepath.com
Subject: Arkansas: Digital/Biometric Drivers License System



-> Send "subscribe   snetnews " to majordomo@world.std.com
->  Posted by: "ScanThisNews"  (by way of jeremy.compton@stonebow.otago.ac.nz (Jeremy Compton))




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 02:14:46 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: SNET: [FP] FW: Want to Travel? Not W/O Your Biometric Passport
Message-ID: <199809160716.AAA24468@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: "ScanThisNews"  (by way of jeremy.compton@stonebow.otago.ac.nz (Jeremy Compton))
Subject: SNET: [FP] FW: Want to Travel? Not W/O Your Biometric Passport
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 15:01:38 +1200
To: snetnews@world.std.com


->  SNETNEWS  Mailing List

======================================================================
SCAN THIS NEWS
9/15/98

[forwarded message]

US Takes Immigration in Hand
by Theta Pavis

http://www.wired.com/news/news/technology/story/15014.html

Sep 15, 1998

It's been 44 years since Ellis Island closed shop, but immigration
can still be a long, tiresome process. In an effort to speed the
process for international travelers, the US Immigration and
Naturalization Service is offering a biometric system for willing
frequent flyers.

So far, 71,000 people in six airports have signed up for the
system, called INSPASS. It employs a biometric kiosk to scan and
match the geometric dimensions of travelers' hands, verify their
identities, and perform standard background checks. The INS plans
to expand the program to four additional airports by the end of the
year.

"It creates a fast lane for people," said James Wayman, head of the
federally funded National Biometric Test Center at San Jose
State University.

The kiosks were integrated by EDS, which has had a US$300 million
contract with the INS for automation support and software
development since 1994. This summer, the INS awarded a new,
five-year information-technology contract worth $750 million
to EDS and four other companies.

Ann Cohen, an EDS vice president in the government services group,
said the fact that so many people have signed up for the
INSPASS system shows that biometrics are becoming more popular
and could be commonplace in the future.

"Were getting over that 'Big Brother' hurdle," Cohen said. As
e-commerce develops and terrorism grows, biometrics increasingly
are the "only sure way to get security."

US and Canadian citizens flying overseas on business at least three
times a year are eligible for the free INSPASS program. People
from Bermuda and 26 other countries that have visa-waiver agreements
with the United States are also eligible.

The INSPASS kiosks, which look like ATM machines, were recently
installed at the Los Angeles International Airport, where more
than 1,000 people have enrolled in the program. Rico Cabrera, a
spokesman with the INS Los Angeles regional office, said travelers
like the fact that INSPASS can check their identity in 16 to 60
seconds, a process that can take up to three hours at some airports.
The largest group of INSPASS users at LAX are US citizens, followed by
Australians and New Zealanders.

After filling out a one-page form and passing a background check,
travelers can be issued a Port Pass card with their picture and a
12-number ID on it.

A traveler inserts the card in the kiosk, which reads the ID
number and links to a centralized database run by US Customs. A
geometric hand template is called up from the database and
transferred to the kiosk. After a green light flashes, the right
hand is placed on a reflective surface -- the ID-3D Handkey,
made by Recognition Systems. The HandKey uses a video camera to
take a geometric image of the traveler's hand and fingers, and
the data is converted using compression algorithms. If it matches
the template of the hand stored in the database, the traveler is in.

INSPASS kiosks are also in use at airports in Newark, Miami,
Kennedy (New York), Pearson (Toronto), and Vancouver, British
Columbia. The INS eventually plans to install them at most busy
international airports around the country, including Washington,
San Francisco, Seattle, and Honolulu. The department has geared
the programtoward business travelers, diplomats, airline personnel,
and other "low-risk" visitors.

Some argue that the INS hasn't done enough to market the program.
Jeffrey Betts, WorldWide Solution Manager for IBM -- which
has developed FastGate, a kiosk similar to INSPASS -- said people
aren't enrolling fast enough in the INS system.

International arrivals at airports across the globe are growing every
year by 7 to 10 percent, Betts said, but border control resources
are flat or declining. In 1996, some 65,000 people were enrolled
in the INSPASS program, but the program has added just 6,000 new
users since then.

IBM, which has been running a small pilot program of FastGate in
Bermuda for the past year, is building a system where people can
swipe a credit card through a kiosk at the airport and connect with
a database where the biometrics are stored.

"Governments will have to find ways to do more with less or force
travelers to queue like cattle," Betts said.

While the government plans on marketing INSPASS more aggressively
in the future, Schmidt said, INS is counting on word of mouth
to get new people enrolled. "We don't really have the budget for
a huge marketing campaign," she said.

-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick Poole [mailto:ppoole@fcref.org]
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 1998 5:09 PM
Subject: Want to Travel? Not W/O Your Biometric Passport

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 02:14:57 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: [Fwd: Newspapers that have called for President Clinton'sresignation.]
Message-ID: <199809160716.AAA24479@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: jlbtexas 
Subject: IP: [Fwd: Newspapers that have called for President Clinton'sresignation.]
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 19:22:09 -0500
To: Ignition Point 

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Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 18:18:49 -0600
To: repub-d@u.washington.edu (New Republican Discussion List)
From: spiker 
Subject: Newspapers that have called for President Clinton's
  resignation.
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Newspapers that have called for President Clinton's resignation.

AP
Sept. 15=20

(AP) =97 Newspapers that have called for President Clinton's resignation.
Some of
those listed did so before the release of Kenneth Starr's report on Sept.=
 11.=20



NATIONAL:=20

USA Today=20



ALABAMA:=20

The Dothan Eagle=20

The Mobile Register=20

Montgomery Advertiser=20



ARIZONA:=20

The Daily Dispatch of Douglas=20



CALIFORNIA:=20

San Jose Mercury News=20



COLORADO:=20

The Denver Post=20



CONNECTICUT:=20

The Day of New London=20

Norwich Bulletin=20



FLORIDA:=20

Tampa Tribune=20



GEORGIA:=20

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution=20

The Augusta Chronicle.=20

The Daily Citizen-News, Dalton=20



ILLINOIS:=20

Chicago Tribune=20



INDIANA:=20

The Indianapolis Star=20

The Reporter of Lebanon=20

Chronicle-Tribune of Marion=20



IOWA:=20

The Des Moines Register=20



LOUISIANA:=20

The Times-Picayune of New Orleans=20



MICHIGAN:=20

The Grand Rapids Press=20



MINNESOTA:=20

Post-Bulletin of Rochester=20



MISSISSIPPI:=20

Northeast Mississippi Daily Journal, Tupelo=20



NEBRASKA:=20

Lincoln Journal Star=20



NEVADA:=20

Reno Gazette-Journal=20



NEW MEXICO:=20

Albuquerque Journal=20



NEW YORK:=20

Sunday Freeman of Kingston=20

Utica Observer-Dispatch=20



NORTH CAROLINA:=20

The Herald-Sun of Durham=20

Winston-Salem Journal=20



OHIO:=20

The Repository, Canton=20

The Cincinnati Enquirer=20

The News-Messenger, Fremont=20

News Journal, Mansfield=20

News-Herald, Port Clinton=20



OKLAHOMA:=20

Tulsa World=20



OREGON:=20

Statesman Journal, Salem=20



PENNSYLVANIA:=20

The Sentinel, Carlisle=20

The Daily Intelligencer, Doylestown=20

Standard-Speaker, Hazleton=20

The Philadelphia Inquirer=20

The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette=20

Daily American, Somerset=20



SOUTH CAROLINA:=20

The State, Columbia=20



SOUTH DAKOTA:=20

Argus Leader, Sioux Falls=20



TENNESSEE:=20

The Knoxville News-Sentinel=20

The Commercial Appeal, Memphis=20



TEXAS:=20

The Facts of Brazoria County=20

San Antonio Express-News=20

Tyler Morning Telegraph=20



UTAH:=20

Standard-Examiner, Ogden=20

The Spectrum, St. George=20

The Salt Lake City Tribune=20



WASHINGTON:=20

The Seattle Times=20



WISCONSIN:=20

The Post-Crescent, Appleton=20

The Journal Times, Racine=20


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Newspapers that have called for President Clinton's
resignation.



AP

Sept. 15 



(AP) =97 Newspapers that have called for President Clinton's resignation.
Some of those listed did so before the release of Kenneth Starr's report
on Sept. 11. 







NATIONAL: 



USA Today 







ALABAMA: 



The Dothan Eagle 



The Mobile Register 



Montgomery Advertiser 







ARIZONA: 



The Daily Dispatch of Douglas 







CALIFORNIA: 



San Jose Mercury News 







COLORADO: 



The Denver Post 







CONNECTICUT: 



The Day of New London 



Norwich Bulletin 







FLORIDA: 



Tampa Tribune 







GEORGIA: 



The Atlanta Journal-Constitution 



The Augusta Chronicle. 



The Daily Citizen-News, Dalton 







ILLINOIS: 



Chicago Tribune 







INDIANA: 



The Indianapolis Star 



The Reporter of Lebanon 



Chronicle-Tribune of Marion 







IOWA: 



The Des Moines Register 







LOUISIANA: 



The Times-Picayune of New Orleans 







MICHIGAN: 



The Grand Rapids Press 







MINNESOTA: 



Post-Bulletin of Rochester 







MISSISSIPPI: 



Northeast Mississippi Daily Journal, Tupelo 







NEBRASKA: 



Lincoln Journal Star 







NEVADA: 



Reno Gazette-Journal 







NEW MEXICO: 



Albuquerque Journal 







NEW YORK: 



Sunday Freeman of Kingston 



Utica Observer-Dispatch 







NORTH CAROLINA: 



The Herald-Sun of Durham 



Winston-Salem Journal 







OHIO: 



The Repository, Canton 



The Cincinnati Enquirer 



The News-Messenger, Fremont 



News Journal, Mansfield 



News-Herald, Port Clinton 







OKLAHOMA: 



Tulsa World 







OREGON: 



Statesman Journal, Salem 







PENNSYLVANIA: 



The Sentinel, Carlisle 



The Daily Intelligencer, Doylestown 



Standard-Speaker, Hazleton 



The Philadelphia Inquirer 



The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette 



Daily American, Somerset 







SOUTH CAROLINA: 



The State, Columbia 







SOUTH DAKOTA: 



Argus Leader, Sioux Falls 







TENNESSEE: 



The Knoxville News-Sentinel 



The Commercial Appeal, Memphis 







TEXAS: 



The Facts of Brazoria County 



San Antonio Express-News 



Tyler Morning Telegraph 







UTAH: 



Standard-Examiner, Ogden 



The Spectrum, St. George 



The Salt Lake City Tribune 







WASHINGTON: 



The Seattle Times 







WISCONSIN: 



The Post-Crescent, Appleton 



The Journal Times, Racine 





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--------------748814E7F8CA61AC43FE785D--




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: HyperReal-Anon 
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 19:26:24 +0800
To: james.talkington@srcm.com
Subject: Re: Hello
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Tue, 15 Sep 1998, Christopher Barkley 
wrote:

>
> You listed me in Six Degrees as your fellow alum, but I'm afraid I can't
> place you.  So, who are you?
>
> Cheers,
> Christopher

Hi!

I found you on a gay sex site. Boy, do you have a little one, dude. But I
was thinking maybe we could get together and get some drinks and dinner,
maybe take in a XXX movie, and then go at it with these five other guys I
found.  We can take films and give them to the web site owners at Six
Degrees.  They tell me they pay really good for it. They pay extra for
S&M-bondage-anal films. We can split it and hired a few hundred male
prostitutes and have the biggest orgy in history.

I wanna like get your boss in on it too.....nothing like a master-slave
relationship to make your heart skip a few beats. Purrrrrrrrrrrr. You guys
must have a real good time in the office.

Feel free to post this on the bulletin board and all. Since you mailed me
I feel compelled to give a big steamy hunk like you all my special offers
and anyBODY who works with you is probably just as much of a beefcake.

Make sure you wear lots of black leather. I'll bring the whip. 

Ta ta, you big luscious hunk you!

Love,
Fudgepacker Supreme




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 23:56:53 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Democracy... (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809160522.AAA03680@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 23:09:03 -0500
> From: Jaeger 
> Subject: Re: Democracy...

> and the meaning is not that church
> shouldn't have an effect on the state.

Agreed.

  The state CAN support one
> religion over another.

If we are speaking of 'the state' as the 'federal government' then *no* it
can't support any religion because it isn't authorized to address those
issues under any venue, make no law means just that, make no law - whether
for or against religion is irrelevant. This country is blind in respect to
religion and the cornucopia of individual actions via the 9th & 10th.

Now if you are speaking of 'the state' as the individual 50 states,
regulated within the confines of their own 50 individual constitutions, as
directed per the 10th then you are correct - provided the state constitution
gives the state government the duty (governments don't have rights) to regulate
religion, the fact is most don't.

If there is no individual state regulation then the limitations of religion
fall upon individual discretion. Whether the religion promoted going to
heaven, smoking good ganja, or rapeing babies is irrelevant as to the
ability of the state to engage in prior restraint - they can't. Since most
local jurisdictions have laws against murder, rape, child molestation, etc.
under their individual charters and representative system there is really no
reason to a priori regulate such activities at any higher level than localy.
It isn't the act that we should worry about, it's the consequences to others
after the fact. If an act doesn't effect another person or their property
directly then there is no legitimate reason to interfere with their actions.

Constitutionaly the federal government should be blind to my actions as an
individual unless I'm crossing a state line, work for the federal
government, legal action, or have a treasury issue.

>  In context, the phrase simply explains that the
> government can't make laws that RESTRICT religious practice or doctrinal
> issues.

Bullshit. There is NO way to reasonably accept this as a legitimate
interpretation of the 1st & 10th.

>  The state CAN make laws that encourage the practice of any one
> particular religion, as long as the laws do not RESTRICT the PRACTICE of
> other religions.  Making people uncomfortable isn't a constitutional
> reason to overturn a law.

No. Niether the spirit or the letter of the issue allows such sweeping
generalizations. In fact it fails for the same reason that mass searches
fail strict Constitutional interpretation, the Constitution directs that
probable cause is required *IN EACH CASE* to be handled individualy, there
is no stipulation where individual probable cause may be bypassed. Just
because you do it to everyone, while you can't do it to anyone, legitimizes
it. If you can't rape an individual you can't rape 10 people. The same
applies to religion, the federal government can't make a law respecting a
religion because it can't even define religion. Now if you can't support any
religion you certainly can't support an individual religion.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vivek Vaidya" 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 02:32:54 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Democracy...
Message-ID: <19980916072612.3520.qmail@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>At Tuesday, you wrote:
>>> 1)Love the Lord, with all your heart, with all you soul with all 
your 
>>> mind and all your strength
>>> 2)Love you neibour as yourself.
>>>
>>> Everything else hangs on these.
>>>
>>Ever heard of seperation of church and state? Democracy? the rights 
>>of the individual?  While you certainly have the right to practice 
>>your religion in what ever manner you so choose demanding that 
>>everyone else does, or that the president of the us of ais subject 
>>to you PERSONAL faith decisions is outragous
>
>I believe you are confusing church with religion.
>Religion has nothing to do with Churches and the dogmas they follow.
>Like Ethics have nothing to do with Law.
>
>The reference made is more related with ethics than with religion 
>(even if a reference to God is made) and certainly no related at all
>with any Church. 
>
>May I note also that crude atheism is more related with a Church
>with its dogmas. They all create a fixed mind and the reduction
>of human dignity that follows.
>
>To avoid equivokes:
>Religion has nothing to do with 'faith' or 'Churches'
>A man may be an atheist and be religious. It is a more intimate 
>characteristic than beliefs.
>A prist may not be religious at all... as often happens.
>
>(The equivoke will happen to those who have no insight on the word 
>'religion'... only of its use and misuse.)
>
>And it will always surprise me to see words used in the inverse 
>sense of themselves, like the use of the word 'freedom' in its 
>inverse sense.
>
>May be because of this that todays Big-tyrants and small ones all
>using words they do not understand and being elected or posting
>angry replies in the name of what they insidiously destroy.
>
>I'm not condemning, only noting. 
>And this because it is simply a question of understanding.
>After all... we all carry our private prisons with us.
>
>Regards, (yes, why not?)
>Dutra de Lacerda.
I agree with you completely when you state that religion, ethics, and 
law are distinct and different things.  Unfortunately in the United 
States they have a strong tendency to become intertwined.  The law as it 
stands is that impeachment is only to be used in cases of high crimes 
and misdemeanors.  Now I have not read the entire Starr report nor do I 
have a sophisticated background in law nevertheless nothing Bill has 
done seems to qualify as worthy of impeachment under the law.  However, 
the sexual acts and behaviour exhibited by him is deeply repugnant to 
many on ethical grounds and particularly repugnant to Christians 
specifically.  I do not have any problem at all with those who are 
disgusted by the presidents behaviour on ethical or religious grounds, I 
personally find it repulsive.  I do however feel, as I believe you are 
saying also,  that the law is law.  It should be executed in a fair and 
just manner and according to the letter ( which may or may not lead to 
impeachment ).  The previous poster to which I replied seemed to be very 
clearly stating that his personal religious code of ethics took 
precedence over american legal codes,  a viewpoint which I cannot agree 
with.  All debate on the precice origin and validity of 'seperation of 
church and state' aside I cannot recall any part of the constitution 
which invokes divine justice.  The impeachment issue is not one of 
ethics or religion, simply law and law alone.

Vivek Vaidya




______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 18:03:19 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Hello
Message-ID: <199809152257.AAA05018@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I found your name on a kiddy porn site.  At first I was disgusted, and
immediately called the FBI.  But then I got kind of turned on by the
whole idea, and decided that maybe we could get together and have
hot sex, and you could wear a wig with pigtails, and it would be just
like we were screwing children, just like I know you love to do.  Then
maybe we could switch roles.

So anyway, let me know if you're interested.  But also, expect the
FBI to be calling on you in the near future, pervert!

Tah tah lovey,
Joe C.


At 06:14 PM 9/15/98 -0400, Christopher Barkley wrote:
>You listed me in Six Degrees as your fellow alum, but I'm afraid I can't
>place you.  So, who are you?
>
>Cheers,
>Christopher
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mac Norton 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 01:14:52 +0800
To: attila 
Subject: Re: Clinton still doesnt get it
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Tue, 15 Sep 1998, attila wrote:

Well, I've been working for a couple of days and spent the weekend before
that with The Report. I read all of it, including the footnotes, every
damn one of them, and they're where all the good stuff is, btw.  Given
that weekend study, it's apparent to me, after reviewing several days
of posts on this topic on this list, that most of you people can't
or don't read or have the attention spans of gnats.  

The perjury case has some serious reasonable doubt problems, the
abuse of power case is thin, thin, and the executive privilege 
stuff is there as sheer trade goods to give Congress something
to throw out.  In legal parlance, it wouldn't pass Rule 11.
And I don't know who is giving you legal advice, but there's
no sexual harrassment count in the thing.  Read it, if you can.
Peferably after your medication.

Much of what you guys have had to say about this matter since
Friday is hilarious, much of it pungent, some of it poingnant,
and even some of it accurate.  But mostly pretty ignorant and
beneath your usual standard. One of you had the good sense to
post the column i repost below, because that fellow seems to
have gotten a pretty good handle on this squalid mess.  

But punks . . . well, punks . . . a few years ago when I first
subscribed to this list, to lurk and learn, as I still mostly
do, there were some hardasses you could depend on to come out
of the woodwork when things got way out of space, and they'd 
say: Punks write code. 

And they were write.
MacN

> 
> New York Times
> September 13, 1998 
> IN AMERICA/By BOB HERBERT 
> Still Doesn't Get It 
> 
> David Maraniss, in his biography of Bill Clinton, "First in His Class," 
> writes about an "intense relationship" that Mr. Clinton had with a 
> young woman who had volunteered to work in his first campaign for 
> public office. Mr. Clinton was running for Congress and the woman was a 
> student at the University of Arkansas. 
> 
> A campaign aide, quoted in the book, said, "The staff tried to ignore it as 
> long as it didn't interfere with the campaign." But it did interfere, because 
> Mr. Clinton was also intensely involved with Hillary Rodham. 
> 
> Mr. Maraniss writes: "The tension at campaign headquarters increased 
> considerably when Rodham arrived as people there tried to deal with the 
> situation. Both women seemed on edge. The Arkansas girlfriend would ask 
> people about Hillary: what she was like, and whether Clinton was going to 
> marry her. When she was at headquarters, someone would sneak her out 
> the back door if Rodham was spotted pulling into the driveway." 
> 
> It was all there more than two decades ago at the very beginning of Bill 
> Clinton's political journey: the thoughtlessness, the recklessness, the 
> wanton use of friends and associates to cover up his ugly behavior, the 
> willingness to jeopardize the hopes and dreams of people who were 
> working for him and trusted him, the betrayal of those closest to him. 
> 
> There is nothing new in Kenneth Starr's report, just confirmation in 
> extreme and at times lurid detail of the type of person Mr. Clinton has 
> always been. 
> 
> In 1992, when he was running for President and people across the nation 
> were investing their time, money and even their careers in him, he 
> rewarded them with the Gennifer Flowers scandal. He carried his 
> psychodrama onto national television when he went on "60 Minutes" and, 
> with Mrs. Clinton at his side, called Ms. Flowers a liar. 
> 
> He told Steve Kroft and 30 million viewers: "It was only when money came 
> up, when the tabloid went down there offering people money to say that 
> they had been involved with me, that she changed her story. There's a 
> recession on, times are tough, and I think you can expect more and more 
> of these stories as long as they're down there handing out money." 
> 
> In other words, it was the economy, stupid. 
> 
> But even as he was denying that he had had a sexual relationship with 
> Gennifer Flowers, Mr. Clinton was going out of his way on "60 Minutes" to 
> convey to the public that he had learned a lesson, that he had matured 
> and that his irresponsible behavior would not be a problem if he were 
> elected President. 
> 
> "I have absolutely leveled with the American people," he said. 
> 
> In fact, his comments were about as level as the Himalayas. We now know 
> that he was willing to risk everything, his family, his Presidency, the 
> welfare of the nation, on a dangerous fling with a White House intern. For 
> him, it must have been great fun. He got to play so many people for fools. 
> He got to chat on the phone with Congressmen while engaging in sex. He 
> got to play hide and seek with the Secret Service. 
> 
> Very mature behavior. 
> 
> Now the Clinton psychodrama has much of the Government paralyzed 
> and the Democratic Party in a state of panic. But Mr. Clinton still doesn't 
> get it. On Thursday he met with the members of his Cabinet, who had 
> been duped and lied to like so many others. He went into his emotional 
> routine and said he was oh-so-sorry, etc. He begged for forgiveness. 
> 
> But he got upset when the Secretary of Health and Human Services, 
> Donna Shalala, said that she was appalled by his behavior. Ms. Shalala 
> complained that the President seemed to believe that pursuing his 
> policies and programs was more important than providing moral 
> leadership. 
> 
> A story in The Washington Post said Mr. Clinton responded sharply to Ms. 
> Shalala, rebuking her. My understanding is that his response was critical 
> but not harsh. Either way, it's clear that Mr. Clinton has not learned the 
> requisite lessons. He lied to Ms. Shalala months ago and sent her out to lie 
> to the public, and now he's criticizing her. The President is not sorry. He's 
> apologizing because there's a gun at his head. He's not changing what he 
> now describes as his sinful ways. He's trying to manipulate public opinion 
> so he can survive to sin again. The psychodrama remains as long as he 
> remains. 
> 
> There are no surprises here. With Bill Clinton, it was ever thus. 
> 
> 
> 
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Edwin E. Smith" 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 00:27:01 +0800
To: Tim May 
Subject: Re: Democracy...
In-Reply-To: <35FF220A.F88B87F6@hempseed.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980916012129.007f46c0@mailhost.IntNet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
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And while we are on the subject, nothing gets to me quite so easily 
as self-styled educated men who cannot spell or form a grammatically 
correct sentence. You attempt to flame those whose logic is faulty 
and come off looking like ignorant boobs.

If you had done a little more reading in your past you would be able 
to recognize your own poor ability to communicate yet you rail on 
about the cluelessness of AOLers who haven't read the constitution. 
My question is how is it that you are able to read it?

I have pity for those who are products of the public school system 
but they have an excuse. What excuse do computer programmers have? 
They are forced to think logically yet so often refuse to do so in 
matters of real life. They often fall back upon the constitutionality 
of a particular concept yet haven't tested it with the power of their 
own sense of truth and justice.

Such is the substance of lawyers and politicians.

I recently saw a posting about right v. wrong or good v. evil. These 
are subjective terms as any good semanticist knows. But what is real 
and what is unreal is a much more difficult thing to determine. It 
requires rigorous thinking without prejudice or belief getting in the 
way.

As to law. The first of the Bill of Rights says:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, 
or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of 
speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to 
assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

If you are going to quote something, do it fully and accurately. It 
isn't that hard and if you don't have a copy of the constitution 
laying around then either get one or keep your damn mouth shut until 
you know what you are talking about.

No, the words "seperation of church and state" do not appear but then 
neither does "privacy", but it is damn well implied by the 4th 
amendment. 

Those self-righteous pricks who want bible reading in the schools and 
rail against those who recite the 1st amendment either lack 
understanding of the term "reading" or are being dishonest by 
insisting that disallowing teachers to read the bible to students is 
wrong and that the constitution needs to be amended. Anyone with any 
honesty would realize that the first amendment doesn't prohibit bible 
reading by students or even bible study in a historical context. It 
merely prohibits tax-paid teachers from "respecting an establishment 
of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;". If I see 
just one more bible-thumping zealot message about "would you care to 
show us where "seperation of church and state" is to be found in the 
constitution/bill of rights?" I will be tempted to take him out in 
the parking lot and pound sand into the parts which are unaccustomed 
to this substance.

I am all for separation of school and state. Show me where in the 
constitution/bill of rights everyone is entitled to a theft/tax 
funded education. This would solve church and state in schools 
wouldn't it. If you don't like your kids getting a non-religious 
education from the godless state, you are free to pull them out and 
put them into a private school of your choice. But of course it isn't 
your kids you are worried about is it? It's all those other peoples 
kids that aren't getting the benefit of the word of the one true 
Christian god that you want to help isn't it!

Hypocrisy is the Vaseline(tm) of political intercourse!

Edwin E. Smith


At 08:39 PM 9/15/98 -0700, you wrote:
>At 7:27 PM -0700 9/15/98, Jaeger wrote:
>>hey, would you care to show us where "seperation of church and 
state" is
>>to be found in the constitution/bill of rights?  absolute right and
>
>Gee, check out the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. Also 
the first
>item in the Bill of Rights. "Congress shall make no law respecting 
the
>establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise 
thereof..."
>(from memory, so don't bother me with minor wording corrections.)
>
>By standard convention, this is also referred to as "separation of 
church
>and state."
>
>As with the clueless AOLers yakking about an "Assimov" story they 
read a
>couple of years ago in the 5th grade, you bozos need to get educated 
and
>spend a minute or two thinking before writing.
>
>
>--Tim May
>

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Edwin E. Smith" 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 00:56:56 +0800
To: Tim May 
Subject: Re: Democracy...
In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19980916003108.007cfbf0@mailhost.IntNet.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980916015110.007b29a0@mailhost.IntNet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



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Hash: SHA1

twit, v.t, twitted, twitting. address teasingly.

I'm touched! You think I'm teasing you? Well, I'm NOT teasing you. 
You're an ASSHOLE! Yes I spelled it correctly so there wouldn't be 
any misunderstanding. You're a self-righteous prick who dumps on 
people just because they have a certain email address without any 
consideration for what they may be saying. Yes there are clueless 
people at AOL and there are clueless people at got.net and at 
intnet.net. So what?

When you cut yourself off from people just because of their email 
address you do yourself a disservice but when you try to dissuade 
others because of your prejudice then you wrong us as well. I am 
quite able to evaluate the worthiness of someones words without your 
superior pronouncements.

If you don't have anything of value to add to the discussion then 
shut-the-fuck-up!

Edwin

At 09:43 PM 9/15/98 -0700, you wrote:
>At 9:31 PM -0700 9/15/98, Edwin E. Smith wrote:
>
>>
>>Only a minute or two? How many minutes does it take to be able to
>>correctly spell the name of somebody you are deprecating?
>>
>
>The only _name_ mentioned in my post was "Assimov." This must be the
>"correctly spell the name of...." example you are citing.
>
>This spelling was deliberate, based on the AOL guy citing his 5th 
grade
>reading of it...
>
>As for you, you're still a twit.
>

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iQA/AwUBNf9RzUmNf6b56PAtEQJUywCg/d+IFyZeUWGvytpdxR85CuHS05YAoLyB
bkSyv+E6WRZXewM0LEIS2jcZ
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Chiu Ngan" 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 03:58:42 +0800
To: vanessa.ho@mailexcite.com
Subject: Fwd: I don't care if this is real or not! But forwarding is not hard for me if I help
Message-ID: <19980916085139.13597.qmail@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




>Received: from 136.148.1.253 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP;
>	Tue, 15 Sep 1998 05:55:15 PDT
>X-Originating-IP: [136.148.1.253]
>From: "Dodwell Leung" 
>To: alexccl@hotmail.com, z2181727@student.unsw.edu.au, 
antonylam@hotmail.com, chonga@sbu.ac.uk, z2183890@student.unsw.edu.au, 
lcy@qms.ndirect.co.uk, z2155343@student.unsw.edu.au, bahrid@hotmail.com, 
daner@mail.mkv.mh.se, Evert.P.deVries@SI.shell.com, 
harold.tan@mailexcite.com, ivanyip@hotmail.com, catkoo@hotmail.com, 
jennyshek@hotmail.com, BKKsomporb@mail.nomura.com.hk, 
joe621@netvigator.com, heyloe@hotmail.com, kmyk@hotmail.com, 
kenjess@apanet.com.au, lawhon@hotmail.com, lfan@mail.uoknor.edu, 
95481624J@hkpucc.polyu.edu.hk, shukai@netvigator.com, 
z2188635@student.unsw.edu.au, mattgow@hotmail.com, 
z2192026@student.unsw.edu.au, z2174314@student.unsw.edu.au, 
Steeve.Genot@wanadoo.fr, hsp996@hotmail.com, physpot@asiaonline.net, 
pixie_tan@hotmail.com, pooi_lee_chow@hotmail.com, eeyatir@hotmail.com, 
saralee@chevalier.net, patelsu@sbu.ac.uk, beetch@pacific.net.sg, 
z2188232@student.unsw.edu.au, simpsonngan@hotmail.com, 
yoon@pacific.net.sg, hamster.sol@lineone.net, stepcom@hkstar.com, 
ext3366@yahoo.com, tinyau1@netvigator.com, z2193851@student.unsw.edu.au, 
huvl@sbu.ac.uk, z2193612@student.unsw.edu.au, willmilk@hotmail.com, 
wswinnie@netvigator.com, brackeye@hkstar.com, takleung@wisdom.com.hk
>Subject: I don't care if this is real or not! But forwarding is not 
hard for me if I help
>Content-Type: text/plain
>Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 05:55:15 PDT
>
>
>>Received: from 202.184.46.2 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP;
>>	Tue, 15 Sep 1998 01:39:48 PDT
>>X-Originating-IP: [202.184.46.2]
>>From: "san san" 
>>To: alanling@usa.net, calviny@mol.net.my, chowpin@edb.gov.sg, 
>chan911@pc.jaring.my, gary_wang@hotmail.com, junifer@pl.jaring.my, 
>karren@deakin.edu.au, klay@okstate.edu, lkhoong@pc.jaring.my, 
>mcch@hotmail.com, murphy_l@hotmail.com, simfong@pl.jaring.my, 
>stchai@pl.jaring.my, mote@hotmail.com, tlliew@tm.net.my, 
>wthong@pl.jaring.my, dodwellleung@hotmail.com
>>Subject: Fwd: This is serious PLEEEEEEASE PLEASE DON'T DELETE!!!!!
>>Content-Type: text/plain
>>Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 01:39:48 PDT
>>
>>
>>>Received: from 202.188.25.160 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP;
>>>	Mon, 14 Sep 1998 06:27:23 PDT
>>>X-Originating-IP: [202.188.25.160]
>>>From: "Lim Huey" 
>>>To: alexlimyk@hotmail.com, audrey.looi@mailexcite.com, 
>>kianwah19@hotmail.com, enyen@hotmail.com, s9812221@unitele.com.my, 
>>rckj@hotmail.com, seliness@hotmail.com, stanchow@tm.net.my, 
>>bhchua7@hotmail.com, csheng@rocketmail.com, yoongyow@hotmail.com, 
>>ching20@hotmail.com, lphoo@hotmail.com, ken_thong@rocketmail.com, 
>>twinsck@hotmail.com, poaysun@yahoo.com, mda97mk@sheffield.ac.uk, 
>>yongqiang13@hotmail.com, sammy_lee_79@hotmail.com, 
>>tungweileong@hotmail.com, lifesignx@yahoo.com, elim331@yahoo.com, 
>>lwloh@hotmail.com, audrey.looi@mailcity.com, sokyee@pc.jaring.my, 
>>kah_kit@hotmail.com, siewgar@hotmail.com, chiane@mailcity.com, 
>>Vvpenguin@hotmail.com, pkleong@hotmail.com, phangf@hotmail.com, 
>>rolandhii@hotmail.com, stjdanzel@hotmail.com, leesiehui@hotmail.com, 
>>jeennwei@hotmail.com, chouyong@hotmail.com, ttc1979@yahoo.com, 
>>guatyen@hotmail.com, chonkit@hotmail.com, thongyp@hotmail.com, 
>>soonfung@hotmail.com, tsueyyin@hotmail.com, feiyy@hotmail.com
>>>Subject: Fwd: This is serious PLEEEEEEASE PLEASE DON'T DELETE!!!!!
>>>Content-Type: text/plain
>>>Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 06:27:23 PDT
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 04:25:43 -0700 (PDT)
>>>>From: CHEW JUNN WENG 
>>>>Subject: This is serious PLEEEEEEASE PLEASE DON'T DELETE!!!!!
>>>>To: lmoonc@hotmail.com, pvcheo@essex.ac.uk, cwnsim@essex.ac.uk,
>>>>  yoongyow@hotmail.com, lenelene@hotmail.com, gcping38@mailcity.com,
>>>>  gthong@rocketmail.com, ching20@hotmail.com, 
lcchuan@rocketmail.com,
>>>>  moon@tm.net.my, shaohuey@hotmail.com, janelsl@tm.net.my,
>>>>  csheng@rocketmail.com, hwooi@yahoo.com, dianacn@hotmail.com,
>>>>  stjdanzel@hotmail.com, effyjungle@hotmail.com, 
>bus_tard@hotmail.com,
>>>>  lphoo@hotmail.com, yakasaki@hotmail.com, colint79@hotmail.com
>>>>Cc: anniesia@hotmail.com, pearlng@hotmail.com, liangser@hotmail.com,
>>>>  choopar@hotmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Hello, my name is David "Darren" Bucklew. I live in 
>>>>Pittsburgh PA where I attend Bethel Park High School
>>>>and participate in  many sports.  I have severe
>>>>ostriopliosis of the liver. (My liver is extremely 
>>>>inflamed).
>>>>Modern Science has yet to find a cure.  Valley
>>>>Childrens hospital 
>>>>> has agreed to donate  7 cents to the National
>>>>Diesese Society for every name 
>>>> on  this letter.Please send it around as much as you
>>>>can.
>>>>Thank you,
>>>>Darren
>>>>
>>>>PS: For those of you who dont take 5 minutes to do 
>>>>this, what goes around comes around. You can help
>>>>sick people, and it costs you nothing,yet you are too
>>>>lazy to do it?  You will get what you deserve. 
>>>>
>>>>_________________________________________________________
>>>>DO YOU YAHOO!?
>>>>Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>______________________________________________________
>>>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>>
>>
>>______________________________________________________
>>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Rain Dog" 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 05:15:14 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Larry Gilbert, AOLers, and the Hyper-real flamer
Message-ID: <19980916100923.15676.qmail@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




AIMSX@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Actually.. I am getting a SunOS Shell account this weekend.  AOL has
> improved
> service somewhat, and it is now possible to use Netscape (or any other
> browser) along with it.

Of course, 32-bit AOL allows you to use all the TCP/IP protocols...

> As for me paying it... I just became old enough to work (finally)
> about a month ago, and I am only making minimum wage, and the hours
> are not good enough for me to be able to keep up my hobbies of 
paintball,
> computer upgrades, and Internet alone.

Do you follow these hobbies simultaneously, or do you do 'Internet-ing' 
as
a separate activity to paintballing your upgrades?
Isn't 'Internet-ing' similar to 'road-ing' or 'railway-ing'?

> Therefore... she pays for it, I wash dishes...

These two are related?

> ...not all AOLers are stupid warez lovers that don't know cu from cd.

Fine. Obvious. Not all arabs mug me in the streets of Jerusalem. Enough
have tried to make me wary. Why not shut the hell up bitching about how
much we hate AOL-ers and demonstrate some reason for being on this
list in the first place, other than 'Internet-ing'.

Tim G

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 07:39:56 +0800
To: Tim May 
Subject: Re: Democracy...
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Indeed. There are two types of freedoms at issue here: establishment and
free exercise, which the Framers thought were complementary and the
Supreme Court has said "occasionally overlap." There were three
ideological positions that drove the clause forward: those who wanted to
prevent corruption of the church, those who wanted to prevent corruption
of the state (such as Jefferson), and those who wanted to protect the
church from the state. 

I haven't come across documents written by the Founders or cases that say
the "state CAN support one religion over another." Cites, please? The cass
I'm familiar with suggest exactly the opposite. The Supremes believe in
"the established principle that the Government must pursue a course of
complete neutrality toward religion." Supporting one religion over another
violates the rule against "forbidden effects." 

As Tim said, our new friend's interpretation is somewhat bizarre.

-Declan


On Tue, 15 Sep 1998, Tim May wrote:

> At 9:09 PM -0700 9/15/98, Jaeger wrote:
> >well, the first amendment is what I expected to be used...
> >unfortunately, the phrase "...wall of separation between church and
> >state" is not taken from the first amendment.  It is taken from a letter
> >written by Thomas Jefferson...  and the meaning is not that church
> >shouldn't have an effect on the state.  The state CAN support one
> >religion over another.
> 
> Ah, it's the appearance of a new ranter arguing for some bizarre,
> idiosyncratic interpretation of the Bill of Rights and suchlike. Mr.
> Jaeger, meet Mr. Choate.
> 
> Your notion that the state can support one religion over another so long as
> it does not "restrict" the other will surely be news to the many who have
> studied this issue for centuries. In particular, all those legal decisions
> which got Christian manger scenes removed from public buildings, and which
> got "Jesus Loves Sinners, Even Jews" removed from our coinage, will surely
> now have to be reversed.
> 
>  > The state CAN make laws that encourage the practice of any one
> >particular religion, as long as the laws do not RESTRICT the PRACTICE of
> >other religions.
> 
> 
> Bizarre. Try Ritalin. This has helped some list members cope.
> 
> --Tim May
> 
> 
> (This space left blank pending determ. of acceptability to the gov't.)
> ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
> Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
> ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
> W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
> Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Lynne L. Harrison" 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 04:53:22 +0800
To: Bill Stewart 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980916055715.00910cf0@pop.mhv.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 09:29 PM 9/15/98 -0700, you wrote:
>
>Obviously you Just Don't Get It.  :-)
>The argument tends to be along the lines that if power weren't
>so disparate, she wouldn't have to resort to sexual bribery to get 
>what she wants, she could just take it, or trade for it as an equal.
>
>Because, not being totally stupid about Clinton, she thought it might
>be convenient to have some evidence around after the fact?
>Whether that's for emotional blackmail, or basic blackmail, 
>or life insurance, or for convincing Hillary that Bill was hers now, 
>or convincing some future publisher that she hadn't made it all up, 
>or just because it seemed like it might turn out to be useful in the future,
>who knows.  Lots of possibilities.  Or maybe it was just a memento
>of a lovely evening :-)  Or of a time when she had the President
>wrapped around her little finger.


Bill -

I was pointing out that one (male or female) doesn't save such items of
unwashed clothing unless there's a distorted reason for doing so.  Like
you, I can only speculate as to why, but it reflects a premeditation on her
part - which supports my position that she's not a *victim*.

A woman who comes on to her male employer and, when he accepts her
"invitation", cannot turn around and allege: "Poor me.  I was a victim.  He
is so powerful."  I don't give a damn whether her employer was the
President or the chief janitor.  To contend otherwise is to suggest that
*every* woman in an executive position, private or public, slept her way to
get the position because of the initial imbalance of power.  I do not
accept this.

Clinton has chased skirts for most of his adult life (as an article which
was posted points out). As the "chaser", he's used his various positions of
power to his advantage, and I agree wholeheartedly that there's an
imbalance of power when he acted in this manner.

So, my bottom (and final) line is:

1.  Clinton has been a womanizer for most, if not all of his political life;

2.  Monica was not a victim in _this_ scenario;

3.  Clinton is guilty of perjury;

4.  Clinton used his friends to publicly support his lie and publicly
disgraced his daughter (Hillary's been through this before);

5.  My tax money has been spent to publish a report that he engages in
extra-marital sex and lies about it (gee, a real surprise!); and

6.  Even if I "Don't Get It" - Bill damned sure got it, and got it, and got
it... ;)






**********************************************************************
Lynne L. Harrison, Esq.          |  Never doubt that a small group
Poughkeepsie, New York           |  of citizens can change the world.
mailto:lharrison@dueprocess.com  |  Indeed, it is the only thing that
http://www.dueprocess.com        |  ever has. -- Margaret Mead
**********************************************************************

DISCLAIMER:  I am not your attorney; you are not my client.
             Accordingly, the above is *NOT* legal advice.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mixmaster 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 08:17:13 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Monday, September 14, 1998 - 23:20:36

Question: How is it, that the FBI has so much power?
Answer: Because 'the people' didn't do swat to stop them[the FBI].

Question: How do 'the people' change the situation?
Answer: 'The people' get out their banners and megaphones and march on the Congress.

Question: What do 'the people' do then they[Congress] don't hear 'the people'?
Answer: 'The people' go on strike.

Question: What do 'the people' do when Congress doesn't care about their strikes?
Answer: 'The people' fire their M16'eens at Congress which they brought with them.

Question: So where are 'the people'?      




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Brown, R Ken" 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 06:10:21 +0800
To: nnburk@cobain.HDC.NET>
Subject: RE: Predictions: Crime and Criminal Justice in the 21st Century
Message-ID: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F8423@MSX11002>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>Sunder wrote:
>> 
>> nnburk wrote:
>> >
>> > Predictions: Crime and Criminal Justice in the 21st Century
>> > ...
>> > 2.      As the large pool of young people born in the early 1990s
>> > become teenagers and young adults, there will be a dramatic
>> > increase in violent crime around the year 2005-2010.
>> 
>> I don't necessarily see this.  What do you base this on?  
>
>Um, actually, not _my_ predictions. Source was local LEA, obtained by them
from some  
>nameless seminar. (Sorry. Should have made that point clear earlier.)

It's pretty standard I think - as most crime is committed by 
young men aged between 15 and 25, the more of them there are
around the more crime there is. So sociologists predict
more crime  20 years after a surge in the birth rate.

AFAIR it's also been observed that  violent crime goes up 
in times of increasing prosperity but crime against property
goes up in bad economic times.

Of course none of that explains the huge secular trends in 
crime. In UK crime of all sorts fell almost continually
from about 1700 (& there are no real records much
before then) till the middle of this century. Since then it has been
rising. Who knows why? 

And how come the US murder rate is maybe 8 or 10 times the UK?
(actually that is unfair because the definition of "murder" is stricter
here, but it is at least 4 times different). Are we nicer people?
Not likely - the rape & indecent assault are no better here, & 
burglary is worse. 

> > > 5.      As faith in the criminal justice system declines, there
> > > will be a rise in vigilante-based incidents where citizens take
> > > the enforcement of crime problems into their own hands.
> > 
> > The rest of your prediction sounds like you've watched Robocop a few
> times too
> > many and actually BELIEVED it! :)  Care to back it up with reasons?
> > 
> 
> See above.  Actually, haven't seen Robocop!
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 23:33:31 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Larry Gilbert, AOLers, and the Hyper-real flamer
Message-ID: <199809160426.GAA31537@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Some smart people do come from aol but then again they don't say
stupid stuff.  Aol will always be stereo typed until it is cleansed of
morons.  It is a stereotype based on truth.

Famous AOL saying: me too!






---AIMSX@aol.com wrote:
>
> Obviously you have a very high opinion of yourself and a low opinion
of people
> who use AOL.  Contrary to popular belief, there are a few
intelligent people
> on AOL, but it looks as if you are too egotistical to realize that.
> 
> Have you ever thought to look at your own mistakes before you
publicize
> everyone else's to the world?  Are you just suffering from some sort
of
> dillusion of grandeur - thinking you are better than everyone else. 
Things
> like this are what many wars were started over, I am so happy the
internet
> (hopefully) won't start a war in the real world.
> 
> 

==
"The same thing we do every night Pinkey,
 try to take over the WORLD!"
                          - The brain
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: HyperReal-Anon 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 01:52:07 +0800
To: christopher.barkley@srcm.com
Subject: Re: Harald Fragner
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Tue, 15 Sep 1998, John Scott Porterfield wrote:

>
> How do I get off this list!!!
>
> Bob
>
>

You remove yourself from this list the same way you subscribed, but since
that is such a stupid question and you are obviously a very intelligent
man, I conclude that you meant something else.

By running your badly punctuated sentence through the AOLhole-translator,
we get either: "How do I get off?" or "How do I get off on this list?"

To get off, you may consider seeing a sex therapist. They are more
qualified to assist you in that area. 

To get off on this list is more difficult. We Cypherpunks aren't into that
kind of thing. However, we understand that Christopher Barkley
 is in the market for a friend, so you may 
want to see if you can pair up. You've both spammed the list, so you 
already have something in common! 

In the mean time, please refrain from shooting jizz all over the list like
you and the Sixdegrees lamers have been doing. Someone may slip and hurt
themselves and it always leaves a sticky mess that's just hell on the carpet.

Regards, Voices, Harald, Woof, moans, and whatever.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Alan Olsen 
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 17:54:08 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: CNN - Investigators find "assassination" page on the Web - September 15, 1998 (fwd)
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


http://www.cnn.com/TECH/computing/9809/15/internet.hit.list.ap/index.html

I remember when this page was posted.  It was INCREDIBLY obvious it was
bogus.  either the feds involved are incredibly clueless or they are just
trying to make an example of anyone implementing anything close to an AP
server.

They are afraid. They are very afraid.


alan@ctrl-alt-del.com | Note to AOL users: for a quick shortcut to reply
Alan Olsen            | to my mail, just hit the ctrl, alt and del keys.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 00:33:12 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Regards
Message-ID: <199809160528.HAA02807@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Witty retort to the flames :) I like this one.




---Christopher Barkley  wrote:
>
> Apparently, I just spammed your list a couple of days ago; my
> apologies.  Some zithead listed your email address in the Six Degrees
> networking service and starting asking people to be his contacts.  One
> can only hope his fate is neither swift nor pretty.  (I bear some of
the
> blame; I should have recognized the email address since I have several
> friends on the list.)
> 
> At any rate, my thanks to Tom Perry for his polite explanation of the
> situation.
> 
> As for the REST of you who responded, you have my sympathies.  With
any
> luck, they'll get that thorazine prescription refilled soon.
> 
> Cheerio,
> Christopher
> 

==
"The same thing we do every night Pinkey,
 try to take over the WORLD!"
                          - The brain
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 00:44:14 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Democracy...
Message-ID: <199809160536.HAA03287@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Separation of church and state was established by jefferson not as a
quote from the constitution but as a summary of the religious parts of
it.  It was written in a letter to baptists in massachusets.  He also
sent a copy of it to his postmaster general and attorney general for
proofreading to make sure it was a legal summary and correct.  You can
find this info on the internet.




---Jaeger  wrote:
>
> hey, would you care to show us where "seperation of church and
state" is
> to be found in the constitution/bill of rights?  absolute right and
> wrong is not a religious belief (necessarily)..  your religious
beliefs
> do not affect the nature of reality.  there are absolute truths by
> necessity...  see, there is NO WAY that there could not be.  Because
if
> there were no absolute truths, then that would mean that NOTHING is
> absolute.  That statement in itself is an absolute.  now, as for
> absolute truths regarding the president, there may or may not be any
as
> far as most people are concerned.  people always seem to make an
> exception for people who agree with them...  in order to be an
effective
> president, however, one must uphold the very basis of this country, by
> upholding the law.  Clinton perjured himself, obstructed justice, and
> tampered with witnesses in a grand jury investigation (which was
> incidentally  being conducted by a man who was praised just
months
> earlier as unbiased and very qualified for the job).  The man is
> supposed to be the figurehead for our system of gov't.  If he cannot
> follow the law, then he is not fit for the office.
> 
> Jaeger
> 
> > Ever heard of seperation of church and state? Democracy? the
rights of
> >
> > the individual?  While you certainly have the right to practice your
> > religion in what ever manner you so choose demanding that everyone
> > else
> > does, or that the president of the us of ais subject to you PERSONAL
> > faith decisions is outragous
> >
> > Vivek Vaidya
> >
> > ______________________________________________________
> > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> 
> 
> 
> 

==
"The same thing we do every night Pinkey,
 try to take over the WORLD!"
                          - The brain
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: AIMSX@aol.com
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 06:47:11 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Larry Gilbert, AOLers, and the Hyper-real flamer
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



In a message dated 98-09-15 23:06:12 EDT, you write:

> By the way, the sentence I quoted above is what is known as a question. In
> English, you use a question mark for those. 

I know... I noticed that just when I hit the send button.  Hmm, where you ever
an English teacher... maybe named Mrs. Braly?

Anyway... I don't type like an idiot, as I HAVE seen.

I also rarely ever reply to someone, so I forget all about the quotes when I
do, I am sorry for that mistake.  Hopefully it is corrected to everyone on the
internet's liking above.

I think (but not sure) that you are trying to put words in my mouth with the
following statement: 

> but since AOL _is_ the Internet

Well, I never said anything like that.  Actually, I only like a few things
about AOL, but I know it is NOT _the_ Internet.  I also know that NO ISP is
_the_ Internet.  It is a collection of protocols, etc.  Next time, don't put
words in my mouth.  

Someone once said (I can't remember who exactly),
The greatest threat to manipulators are the people who think for themselves.
So, I really don't CARE what you say about me, or too me.  It really has no
meaning to me.  

Oh, and maybe it will give you some wierd joy to know that I _am_ switching
ISP's soon, to dfw.net, with SunOS shell account =)

Well, enough of replying to your insults, or what I took to be insults.  I
need to read a little.

Bye.
-The person that has been labeled a typical AOL k00l d00d

P.S.  Grow up... quit berating people because of an ISP that they MAY not even
have had a choice on... did you ever think of that?




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 01:00:05 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Larry Gilbert, AOLers, and the Hyper-real flamer
Message-ID: <199809160556.HAA04756@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Tue, 15 Sep 1998 AIMSX@aol.com wrote:

> 
> Obviously you have a very high opinion of yourself and a low opinion of people
> who use AOL.  Contrary to popular belief, there are a few intelligent people
> on AOL, but it looks as if you are too egotistical to realize that.

You're right.

We have very high opinions of ourselves. We have low opinions of people
who use AOL because they're typically scum, spammers, or idiots. You even
admit this by saying "there are a FEW intelligent people on AOL." They're
also paying $20/month for a shitty service with a bad reputation.

If you don't like the stereotype, get your fellow AOLers to get a
clue and reverse it which will probably take years if it's possible at
all, or if you're actually an intelligent AOLer, go get an ISP which
isn't synonymous with manure.

Personally, I'm figuring very, very few AOL users who publish actively to
the Internet have a clue. The traffic on this list just over the last
month backs that up. The reputation AOL has is deserved, and there is a
definate pattern of stupidity from AOL.

In the future quote so we know what you're talking about, and don't use
the "flick off the Internet" quoting style, either.

> Have you ever thought to look at your own mistakes before you publicize
> everyone else's to the world?  

I'm not sending requests for band stickers to cryptography lists. I'm not
sending messages to cryptography lists which read "how u do that" with no
punctuation. I'm not asking members of cryptography lists to sign me up to
receive the news by email every morning. I'm not replying to things while
not quoting, or by using some quoting system which was designed by AOL for
the purpose of pissing off non-AOLers.

I'm not publishing web pages which are unreadable without the latest
shovelware from Microsoft or Netscape, and which shoots the finger
otherwise. 

I'm not saying "AOL is the Internet," and I'm not signing up with a
service because they send me a free mirror or coaster or because I'm too
lazy to learn to do anything other than point and click.

> Are you just suffering from some sort of
> dillusion of grandeur - thinking you are better than everyone else. 

Not everyone else, but infinitely better than the average kool d00d,
AOLer, or webber, and infinitely better than the president who the
"average" American elected.

By the way, the sentence I quoted above is what is known as a question. In
English, you use a question mark for those.

> Things
> like this are what many wars were started over, I am so happy the internet
> (hopefully) won't start a war in the real world.

I won't have anything to do with it, but I'm fully expecting for some new
Unabomber to appear within the next few years. Instead of targeting
technology centers like the Unabomber did, this guy will mail bombs to
spammers, people who send "how u do that" to lists, etc. I, thankfully, am
morally constrained enough to never do anything like that, but I would bet
that there is somebody out there who isn't. 

>From what AOL users send to the Internet from their service, one can
easily conclude that AOL is a haven for wannabes, lamers, and k00l D00dz
\/\/h0 tiPE l1|
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 19:08:16 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: CNN - Investigators find "assassination" page on the Web - September 15, 1998 (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199809160016.TAA01658@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Tue, 15 Sep 1998, Jim Choate wrote:

> 
> Forwarded message:
> 
> > Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 06:53:53 -0700 (PDT)
> > From: Alan Olsen 
> > Subject: CNN - Investigators find "assassination" page on the Web - September 15, 1998 (fwd)
> 
> > http://www.cnn.com/TECH/computing/9809/15/internet.hit.list.ap/index.html
> 
> How come only the IRS is listed as related web sites?...

Becuase they got Jim to sign over the patents for AP.  They want to use it
for "collections".

alan@ctrl-alt-del.com | Note to AOL users: for a quick shortcut to reply
Alan Olsen            | to my mail, just hit the ctrl, alt and del keys.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Alan Olsen 
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 19:10:21 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: CNN - Investigators find "assassination" page on the Web - September 15, 1998 (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199809160016.TAA01658@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Tue, 15 Sep 1998, Jim Choate wrote:

> 
> Forwarded message:
> 
> > Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 06:53:53 -0700 (PDT)
> > From: Alan Olsen 
> > Subject: CNN - Investigators find "assassination" page on the Web - September 15, 1998 (fwd)
> 
> > http://www.cnn.com/TECH/computing/9809/15/internet.hit.list.ap/index.html

BTW, the Oregonian (local Portland, OR paper has an expanded version of
the article.  If I can get time I will type it in. (It is in the 9/15/1998
morning edition on the last page of the Metro section.)

alan@ctrl-alt-del.com | Note to AOL users: for a quick shortcut to reply
Alan Olsen            | to my mail, just hit the ctrl, alt and del keys.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 10:57:53 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: [NYT] Bell-South charging access fees for phone-over-Internet
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980914104601.008b0a10@idiom.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 1:46 PM -0400 on 9/14/98, bill.stewart@pobox.com wrote:


> The company has written
> to a half-dozen Internet service providers in its region saying
> that in November, BellSouth will start levying access fees for
> voice conversations the Internet companies transmit.

Bingo. A hole big enough to drive cryptography through...

Crank up your PGPFones, folks.

Or, maybe we just need ipsec?

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 08:31:53 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Where are the people...
Message-ID: <199809161356.IAA05725@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



...

likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.  Prudence, indeed, 
will dictate that Governments long established should not be 
changed for light and transient Causes; and accordingly all 
Experience hath shewn, that Mankind are more disposed to suffer, 
while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by 
abolishing the Forms to which they are accustomed.  But when a 

...



    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 08:22:26 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Crypto Deals
Message-ID: <199809161316.JAA27937@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



News of easing US crypto limits sounds like the pr-fluff
put out in the summer for easing controls only for financial
institutions -- BXA is scheduled to release the rule
for that about now (originally set to be "near Labor Day"). 

If the news is about this rule, it may allow a few more 
"reputable institutions" to get the privilege traditionally extended 
to banks, so long as longstanding cooperation with
government is assured.

There's a report out of France on the government's issue of
a paper on crypto policy that reaffirms GAK for electronic
commerce with zero protection of privacy:

   http://jya.com/fr-gak.htm

There will probably be more such papers issued as international
cooperation to control encryption is codified in accordance
with the Wassenaar Arrangement and whatever secret
agreements Aron and others have concluded. 

The US version will probably come out gradually as global 
agreements are firmed up, Congress is briefed, and US agencies 
are satisfied that export holes in other countries have been closed.
Then watch for domestic clampdown on encryption, as Cohen and 
others have warned must be done to protect the populace from
too much freedom.

The secret deals among governments to share technology for information
security and electronic surveillance in return for global controls must be 
wonderful reads of duplicity and disinformation, among the participants
in the classified parts, and among the populace in the public versions.

On a related topic, weakness of DES, the ANSI X9 committee handling
cryptography has circulated a draft paper on what banks should do in 
response to recent successful cracks of DES:

   http://jya.com/destran.htm






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mok-Kong Shen 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 02:38:36 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: The DES Analytic Crack Project
In-Reply-To: <199809151742.KAA12178@zendia.mentat.com>
Message-ID: <35FF6B68.41B863BB@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Gillogly wrote:
> 
> In the early 1980's I started trying this approach.  I did the
> back-of-the-envelope estimate and realized it was too big, but
> I thought it worth trying, since if there were a back door in
> DES it might manifest itself by a massive collapse in the complexity
> of these expressions.  I didn't get far enough into it to decide one
> way or the other, since I didn't have a good tool for reducing the
> expressions to minimal form.

As far as I know Boolean minimization has been one of the central
themes of people doing circuit design from the beginning. I should
be surprised if there are spectacular breakthroughs recently.

M. K. Shen




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 12:10:27 +0800
To: Mark Salamon 
Subject: Re: A personal response to your email to sixdegrees
In-Reply-To: <35FFD638.DB6920D3@sixdegrees.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Mark, trust me on this: remove all five cypherpunks addresses from your
lists.

Really.

-Declan


On Wed, 16 Sep 1998, Mark Salamon wrote:

> (I was not sure which email address to send this to, as the return
> address was:  nobody@replay.com.  I also do not know who to address this
> email to.)
> 
> I am the WHOIS contact at sixdegrees you sent this email to, and since
> this is a peronal reply to your email, it is certainly NOT spam and I
> would appreciate it if you would take the time to read it and respond.
> 
> I am very confused by your email.  I understand that you do not wish to
> receive emails from sixdegrees, but it is very easy to solve this
> problem.  If anyone ever sponsors you for sixdegrees, simply reply to
> the email and put the word "remove" in the header.  (This is pretty
> standard stuff across the Internet, as I am sure you are aware.)  If
> that occurs, in the future we will not send emails to the email address
> that received the original email from us.
> 
> Unfortunately, if you have many email addresses (as it appears, from the
> bottom of your email), the only way for us to remove each is to have a
> sixdegrees email go to each of these email address accounts and then
> received a "remove" reply to each of these emails.  (We have in our
> records references to 5 different cypherpunks email addresses: 
> @toad.com, @cypherpunks.net, @cypherpunks.org, @algebra.com, and
> @ssz.com.  If you wish for us not to contact you again at any of these
> addresses, we will need to confirm that you in fact control these email
> addresses.  The best way for you to do this is to send an email to
> cancel@sixdegrees.com, and ask to have these email addresses removed. 
> We will then send a reply to each email address you listed, asking you
> to confirm that you in fact control those email addresses and wish to
> have them removed.  Once we receive your confirmation, we will adjust
> our records so you receive no further emails from us to those email
> addresses.  For example, if I receive an email from you to this email, I
> will assume that you control the @toad.com email address and I will have
> that removed.)
> 
> What is confusing to me is that the email you received from sixdegrees
> (with the subject:  Harald Fragner) is one that would be sent ONLY to a
> CONFIRMED sixdegrees user.  That means that once upon a time, whether
> you remember or not, you joined sixdegrees (as have over 1,000,000
> people to date).  It also appears that you listed Harald Fragner as a
> contact, and he recently denied his sixdegrees relationship with you. 
> Thus, it is not surprising that you would receive emails from
> sixdegrees, as you had registered for our service at one time.  (I
> assume that the email address you used to register with sixdegrees was
> the @toad.com one.)
> 
> sixdegrees is purely a voluntary service, and if you do not want to
> participate in it, then we are happy to accommodate you.  We do not send
> out spam and take great efforts to ensure that no one receives unwanted
> email from us.
> 
> I look forward to receiving your reply to this email.
> 
> Mark Salamon
> General Counsel
> MacroView Communications Corp.
> 
> 
> 
> Anonymous wrote:
> > 
> > On Tue, 15 Sep 1998, the shitheads at sixdegrees spammed the Cypherpunks
> > list with:
> > 
> > > Just a quick update from sixdegrees(tm). Unfortunately Harald
> > > Fragner (harald@fragner.net) asked not to be listed as your
> > > contact with sixdegrees.
> > >
> > > We also wanted to make sure you were aware that you currently
> > > have no other confirmed contacts, so it will be hard for you to
> > > have a productive sixdegrees experience. As you probably know,
> > > without any confirmed contacts, you won't get any results from our
> > > networking searches.
> > >
> > > So, we just wanted to recommend that you head over to
> > > http://www.sixdegrees.com , log-in, and go to MY CONTACTS
> > > to list additional relationships.
> > >
> > >
> > > ====================================================================
> > > PLEASE NOTE: All replies to this address are processed by a computer.
> > > If you have any problems, questions or requests send an e-mail to
> > > issues@sixdegrees.com and someone will get back to you as soon as
> > > possible.
> > > ====================================================================
> > >
> > >
> > > E.DB.BRESP.3
> > >
> > >
> > 
> > Just a quick update from the Cypherpunks(tm). Fortunately, we don't want
> > anything to do with your worthless, pathetic, spamming selves. We don't
> > want to be your friends and, in fact, we'd prefer it if you would crawl
> > under a rock and die because that seems to be the only way you'll stop
> > spamming our mailing list.
> > 
> > We also wanted to make sure that you were aware that you currently have no
> > confirmed redeeming qualities, so it will be hard for you to be taken
> > seriously by those of us who do have a clue. As you probably know, without
> > any redeeming qualities, you will get lots of results every time you send
> > out a batch of spam.
> > 
> > So, we just wanted to recommend that you head on over to your bathtub with
> > the rest of your coworkers, fill it up, jump in together, and then drop in
> > a large, plugged-in, turned-on electric heater into the water and remain
> > in until you stop twitching and cardiac activity ceases.
> > 
> > C.LU.EFULS.2000
> > 
> > You people don't give a fuck how much excrement you shoot all over the
> > net, so long as you let people know of your pathetic, worthless,
> > disgusting service. If you can get somebody's mailing list to relay your
> > shit for you, so much the better, because then you don't have to
> > personally send it.
> > 
> > Sorry, but I've had it with Sixdegrees. I've personally told you idiots
> > very nicely what the Cypherpunks list is, and asked you nicely to stop
> > spamming it. I've personally told you a method to keep people from
> > submitting these addresses to your worthless spam haven. Other people have
> > done the same thing. You haven't fixed it, indicating that you don't care.
> > I'm no longer asking nicely.
> > 
> > A copy is being sent to your technical contact, on the assumption that
> > maybe he is a little more responsible, though I doubt it.
> > 
> > -- The Cypherpunks List  > cypherpunks@*.cyberpass.net, cypherpunks@*.ssz.com,
> > cypherpunks@algebra.com, and others>
> 
> 
> 
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Richard.Bragg@ssa.co.uk
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 04:18:05 +0800
To: mmotyka@lsil.com
Subject: Re: Democracy...
Message-ID: <80256681.0031C8CB.00@seunt002e.ssa.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain








mmotyka@lsil.com on 16/09/98 00:48:25

Please respond to mmotyka@lsil.com

To:   cypherpunks@toad.com
cc:
Subject:  Re: Democracy...




>Vivek Vaidya wrote:
> Ever heard of seperation of church and state? Democracy? the rights of
> the individual?  While you certainly have the right to practice your
> religion in what ever manner you so choose demanding that everyone > else
> does, or that the president of the us of ais subject to you PERSONAL
> faith decisions is outragous
>
> Vivek Vaidya
>
But whoever said I'm in the US?

Where did I make any such demand?

However, if you believe in something to be life changing and beneficial to
      both the idividual and society you'll want or

be compelled to "pass it on".  I can't and do not wish to force any one to
      any point of view, that's pointless.

What I wanted to illustrate is that there are absolutes, to say there are
      no obsolutes is in itself an absolute and so is self

defeating.  We must have absolutes.  These are often agreed on and applied
      through the legal systems but they are still there.

Thus, when examining the behaviour of people in power we apply rules to
      encompass that power ie you can go so far and

no further.  When we are talking about national leaders in the west that do
      represent a wide range of views this can become

more difficult but there still must be a yard stick agreed.



PS If ol' Bill claims to be a Christian then he himself is setting the yard
      stick against we should measure him.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "X" 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 11:24:25 +0800
To: 
Subject: Just what we need...
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <000601bde18e$11900a20$862580d0@ibm>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I know I'm new here, so pardon the long post if you will, but this came to
my attention...

Jesse Berst says:

This is another in my occasional series about Natural Born Killers (NBKs) --
products, services or sites with the genetic potential to become a "killer
application." An NBK is not a recommendation to buy. Or even, as in the case
of Alexa, a recommendation to use a free product. An NBK nomination is a
recommendation to study a product for the good ideas it contains.
And Alexa stuffs a lot of good ideas into a small toolbar that appears at
the bottom of your browser. This toolbar links back to the company's massive
database, which archives most public Web sites. It also tracks anonymous
usage patterns, so it can analyze what people really do on the Web.
(This is handy because we really need to know what people do on the Web.
For Gosh sakes, if we didn't know what you were doing, that'd be downright
depressing!  Then how could we pigeonhole you and market to you and we all
know, the Web won't be successful without some good, clean, marketing!)
The toolbar goes along with you as you surf,
(nothing makes me more comfortable than to have a nice tracking device
stapled in my flanks)
offering site statistics and a variety of helpful tools. For instance, if
you get a File Not Found error, you can retrieve a previous version of the
page from the Alexa archive. You can see site ratings from other Alexa users
(and vote on sites yourself). You even get a direct link to a Web-based
dictionary, thesaurus and encyclopedia.
(Compromise your right to privacy and we'll give you
chump-change-virtual-trinkets!)
PC Magazine says "those with more Internet savvy will get the most out of
Alexa." I would go even further. Alexa is less valuable to mainstream
users -- it's intended audience -- than it is to Internet insiders like you.
I say that because of three things you can get from Alexa:
(1 An optional shoulder-mounted Duo-Cam(r) which simultaneously watches your
monitor and tracks retinal placement so marketers will REALLY know what
you're looking at:
2, A FREE newsletter with important messages from our sponsors who you have
indicated interest in by allowing your retina to focus on their banner ad
.gif: and
3, AnalProbe Y2k(tm) that monitors, in conjunction with the Duo-Cam(r), your
sphincter tightness when certain images are placed on your monitor.  This
device has been known to become addictive to certain members of the
Log-Cabin-Republican party and certain NOW founding members, so extended use
is recommended only with caution.  However, the data we are able to collect
has proven to be 100% accurate shit, so our sponsors feel it is a beneficial
device.)





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Stu Green 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 10:16:13 +0800
To: alg 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Neels Kriek" 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 10:37:17 +0800
To: "cypherpunks" 
Subject: Fw: WARRANTY CARD ON PURCHASED GOVERNMENT OFFICIAL[tm]
Message-ID: <002c01bde187$e8188ec0$a7060cd1@alien>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




-----Original Message-----
From: Gernot Lachner 
Newsgroups: za.humour
Date: Monday, September 14, 1998 10:57
Subject: WARRANTY CARD ON PURCHASED GOVERNMENT OFFICIAL[tm]


>
>Dear Special Interest,
>
>Congratulations on the purchase of your genuine Government Official[tm].
>
>With regular maintenance your Government Official[tm] should provide you
>with a lifetime of sweetheart deals, insider information, preferential
>legislation and other fine services.
>
>Before you begin using your product, we would appreciate it if you would
>take the time to fill out this customer service card. This information will
>not be sold to any other party, and will be used solely to aid us in better
>fulfilling your future needs in political influence.
>
>1. Which of our fine products did you buy?
>
>__ President
>__ Vice-President
>__ Minister
>__ Governor
>__ Mayor
>__ Cabinet Secretary - Commerce
>__ Cabinet Secretary - Other
>__ Other Elected Official (please specify)
>__ Other Appointed Official (please specify)
>
>2. How did you hear about your Government Official[tm]?
>Please check all that apply.
>
>__ TV ad.
>__ Magazine/newspaper ad.
>__ Shared jail cell with.
>__ Former law partner of.
>__ Unindicted co-conspirator with.
>__ Kwazulu-Natal crony of.
>__ Procured for.
>__ Related to.
>__ Recommended by lobbyist.
>__ Recommended by organized crime figure.
>__ Frequently mentioned in conspiracy theories. (On Internet.)
>__ Frequently mentioned in conspiracy theories. (Elsewhere.)
>__ Spoke at fundraiser at my temple.
>__ Solicited bribe from me.
>__ Attempted to seduce me.
>
>3. How do you expect to use your Government Official[tm]?
>    (Please check all that apply.)
>
>__ Obtain lucrative government contracts.
>__ Have my prejudices turned into law.
>__ Obtain diplomatic concessions.
>__ Obtain trade concessions.
>__ Have embargo lifted from own nation/ally.
>__ Have embargo imposed on enemy/rival nation/religious infidels.
>__ Obtain patronage job for self/spouse/mistress.
>__ Forestall military action against self/allies.
>__ Instigate military action against internal enemies/aggressors/targets
>      for  future conquest.
>__ Impede criminal/civil investigation of self/associates/spouse.
>__ Obtain pardon for self/associates/spouse.
>__ Inflict punitive legislation on class enemies/rivals/hated ethnic
>     groups.
>__ Inflict punitive regulation on business competitors/environmental
>     exploiters/capitalist pigs.
>
>4. What factors influenced your purchase?
>    (Please check all that apply.)
>
>__ Performance of currently owned model.
>__ Reputation.
>__ Price.
>__ Appearance.
>__ Party affiliation.
>__ Professed beliefs of Government Official[tm].
>__ Actual beliefs of Government Official[tm].
>__ Orders from boss/superior officer/foreign government.
>__ Blackmail.
>__ Celebrity endorsement.
>
>5. Is this product intended as a replacement for a currently owned
>    Government Official[tm]? ______
>
>If you answered "yes," please indicate your reason(s) for changing models.
>
>__ Excessive operating / maintenance costs.
>__ Needs have grown beyond capacity of current model.
>__ Defect in current model:
>__ Dead.
>__ Senile.
>__ Indicted.
>__ Convicted.
>__ Resigned in disgrace.
>__ Switched parties / beliefs.
>__ Outbribed by competing interest.
>
>Thank you for your valuable time.
>
>Always remember: in choosing a Government Official[tm] you have chosen
>the best politician that money can buy.
>
>
>credits go to someone from atj.
>--
>sciathán leathair ~..~
>"the mortality rate amongst humans is 100%"
>
>




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 13:04:39 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: RE: Democracy...
Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A1928467E@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Someone wrote:
>Religion has nothing to do with 'faith' or 'Churches'

What definition of "religion" are you using. I am very hard pressed to
find single definition that does not involve *faith*, although I have
yet to find a good etymological dictionary on the Internet (anyone know
of one?). You are correct that religion need not have anything to do
with church.

>A man may be an atheist and be religious.

Greek: a- (without) + [theos (god) + ismos (practice or doctrine)]

Unless you can show me a religion that does not involve a god or gods,
and although etymologically unjustified I would claim one that does not
involve *faith*, then I would say you could NOT be both an atheist and
religious. Agnostic perhaps, but not an atheist. You can be
contradictory and hypocritical and claim you are many things, but we are
talking about a coherent philosophy.

You can be both spiritual and an atheist. Spirituality does not require
faith in any external mystical element or being.

Jaeger wrote:
> notice the wording in the first amendment...it only restricts gov't
> restrictions on religion.

What part of "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of
religion" didn't you understand?

As with most the constitution, however, this is theory, not practice. In
practice there are many laws and case precedence establishing and
preferring certain religious practices, particularly the institution of
marriage.

Jim wrote:
> The 1st prevents the government from regulating religion, even to the 
> point of having the authority to define what a religion is.

I agree, but clearly they have. Particularly all the IRS code involving
certain exemptions for religious organizations and individuals. Like I
said above, theory versus practice, we are essentially no longer living
under the constitution.

	Matt




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mark Salamon 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 10:21:41 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: A personal response to your email to sixdegrees
In-Reply-To: <199809152257.AAA05080@replay.com>
Message-ID: <35FFD638.DB6920D3@sixdegrees.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



(I was not sure which email address to send this to, as the return
address was:  nobody@replay.com.  I also do not know who to address this
email to.)

I am the WHOIS contact at sixdegrees you sent this email to, and since
this is a peronal reply to your email, it is certainly NOT spam and I
would appreciate it if you would take the time to read it and respond.

I am very confused by your email.  I understand that you do not wish to
receive emails from sixdegrees, but it is very easy to solve this
problem.  If anyone ever sponsors you for sixdegrees, simply reply to
the email and put the word "remove" in the header.  (This is pretty
standard stuff across the Internet, as I am sure you are aware.)  If
that occurs, in the future we will not send emails to the email address
that received the original email from us.

Unfortunately, if you have many email addresses (as it appears, from the
bottom of your email), the only way for us to remove each is to have a
sixdegrees email go to each of these email address accounts and then
received a "remove" reply to each of these emails.  (We have in our
records references to 5 different cypherpunks email addresses: 
@toad.com, @cypherpunks.net, @cypherpunks.org, @algebra.com, and
@ssz.com.  If you wish for us not to contact you again at any of these
addresses, we will need to confirm that you in fact control these email
addresses.  The best way for you to do this is to send an email to
cancel@sixdegrees.com, and ask to have these email addresses removed. 
We will then send a reply to each email address you listed, asking you
to confirm that you in fact control those email addresses and wish to
have them removed.  Once we receive your confirmation, we will adjust
our records so you receive no further emails from us to those email
addresses.  For example, if I receive an email from you to this email, I
will assume that you control the @toad.com email address and I will have
that removed.)

What is confusing to me is that the email you received from sixdegrees
(with the subject:  Harald Fragner) is one that would be sent ONLY to a
CONFIRMED sixdegrees user.  That means that once upon a time, whether
you remember or not, you joined sixdegrees (as have over 1,000,000
people to date).  It also appears that you listed Harald Fragner as a
contact, and he recently denied his sixdegrees relationship with you. 
Thus, it is not surprising that you would receive emails from
sixdegrees, as you had registered for our service at one time.  (I
assume that the email address you used to register with sixdegrees was
the @toad.com one.)

sixdegrees is purely a voluntary service, and if you do not want to
participate in it, then we are happy to accommodate you.  We do not send
out spam and take great efforts to ensure that no one receives unwanted
email from us.

I look forward to receiving your reply to this email.

Mark Salamon
General Counsel
MacroView Communications Corp.



Anonymous wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 15 Sep 1998, the shitheads at sixdegrees spammed the Cypherpunks
> list with:
> 
> > Just a quick update from sixdegrees(tm). Unfortunately Harald
> > Fragner (harald@fragner.net) asked not to be listed as your
> > contact with sixdegrees.
> >
> > We also wanted to make sure you were aware that you currently
> > have no other confirmed contacts, so it will be hard for you to
> > have a productive sixdegrees experience. As you probably know,
> > without any confirmed contacts, you won't get any results from our
> > networking searches.
> >
> > So, we just wanted to recommend that you head over to
> > http://www.sixdegrees.com , log-in, and go to MY CONTACTS
> > to list additional relationships.
> >
> >
> > ====================================================================
> > PLEASE NOTE: All replies to this address are processed by a computer.
> > If you have any problems, questions or requests send an e-mail to
> > issues@sixdegrees.com and someone will get back to you as soon as
> > possible.
> > ====================================================================
> >
> >
> > E.DB.BRESP.3
> >
> >
> 
> Just a quick update from the Cypherpunks(tm). Fortunately, we don't want
> anything to do with your worthless, pathetic, spamming selves. We don't
> want to be your friends and, in fact, we'd prefer it if you would crawl
> under a rock and die because that seems to be the only way you'll stop
> spamming our mailing list.
> 
> We also wanted to make sure that you were aware that you currently have no
> confirmed redeeming qualities, so it will be hard for you to be taken
> seriously by those of us who do have a clue. As you probably know, without
> any redeeming qualities, you will get lots of results every time you send
> out a batch of spam.
> 
> So, we just wanted to recommend that you head on over to your bathtub with
> the rest of your coworkers, fill it up, jump in together, and then drop in
> a large, plugged-in, turned-on electric heater into the water and remain
> in until you stop twitching and cardiac activity ceases.
> 
> C.LU.EFULS.2000
> 
> You people don't give a fuck how much excrement you shoot all over the
> net, so long as you let people know of your pathetic, worthless,
> disgusting service. If you can get somebody's mailing list to relay your
> shit for you, so much the better, because then you don't have to
> personally send it.
> 
> Sorry, but I've had it with Sixdegrees. I've personally told you idiots
> very nicely what the Cypherpunks list is, and asked you nicely to stop
> spamming it. I've personally told you a method to keep people from
> submitting these addresses to your worthless spam haven. Other people have
> done the same thing. You haven't fixed it, indicating that you don't care.
> I'm no longer asking nicely.
> 
> A copy is being sent to your technical contact, on the assumption that
> maybe he is a little more responsible, though I doubt it.
> 
> -- The Cypherpunks List  cypherpunks@*.cyberpass.net, cypherpunks@*.ssz.com,
> cypherpunks@algebra.com, and others>




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Blanc" 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 14:05:17 +0800
To: 
Subject: RE: [NYT] Bell-South charging access fees for phone-over-Internet
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980914104601.008b0a10@idiom.com>
Message-ID: <000101bde1a5$fd2d4da0$4f8195cf@blanc>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Indirectly, I am already being charged a tax for internet service:   this month AT&T added
a "Universal Connectivity Charge" for a "Universal Service Fund" which "not only helps
provide affordable phone service but also gives schools and libraries access to the
internet."

It's only $1.88 right now, just a wedge . . .

    ..
Blanc




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "GORDON, JEFFREY A" 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 10:45:43 +0800
To: "'Chiu Ngan'" 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>From http://jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/021798/web217__.html

Chain letter: Poor Timothy Flyte. He's dying of ostriopliosis of the liver
and is urging Internet users to forward his electronic chain letter to
everyone in their address books. The letter says a children's hospital will
donate 7 cents to the National Disease Society for every person who forwards
the letter. But wait: There is no such disease as ''ostriopliosis,'' there
is no such thing as the National Disease Society and the name Timothy Flyte
apparently was taken from Peter O'Toole's character in the movie Phantoms.
At the end, the letter includes a threat to those who don't forward it that
''what goes around comes around.'' This piece of e-junk is a particularly
loathsome example of Internet chain letters. If you receive this letter or
any other electronic chain letter, do the world a favor: Delete it without
forwarding it to anyone and inform the person who sent it to you that the
letter is a hoax. For the full story on this letter, see The Mining Co.'s
guide to urban legends.

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Chiu Ngan [SMTP:simpsonngan@hotmail.com]
> Sent:	Wednesday, September 16, 1998 4:52 AM
> To:	dueli@hotmail.com; centrebet@centrebet.com.au; contact@unsw.edu.au;
> Declan@well.com; Dodwellleung@hotmail.com; dlin@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca;
> dorngan@hkstar.com.hk; cypherpunks@toad.com; cj2802@singnet.com.sg;
> parsley@unforgettable.com; S.Lundy@unsw.edu.au; accounts@magna.com.au;
> n.harding@unsw.edu.au; philiph@magna.com.au; ulf@fitug.de;
> leevv@hotmail.com; vanessa.ho@mailexcite.com
> Subject:	Fwd: I don't care if this is real or not! But forwarding is
> not hard for me if I help
> 
> 
> 
> >Received: from 136.148.1.253 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP;
> >	Tue, 15 Sep 1998 05:55:15 PDT
> >X-Originating-IP: [136.148.1.253]
> >From: "Dodwell Leung" 
> >To: alexccl@hotmail.com, z2181727@student.unsw.edu.au, 
> antonylam@hotmail.com, chonga@sbu.ac.uk, z2183890@student.unsw.edu.au, 
> lcy@qms.ndirect.co.uk, z2155343@student.unsw.edu.au, bahrid@hotmail.com, 
> daner@mail.mkv.mh.se, Evert.P.deVries@SI.shell.com, 
> harold.tan@mailexcite.com, ivanyip@hotmail.com, catkoo@hotmail.com, 
> jennyshek@hotmail.com, BKKsomporb@mail.nomura.com.hk, 
> joe621@netvigator.com, heyloe@hotmail.com, kmyk@hotmail.com, 
> kenjess@apanet.com.au, lawhon@hotmail.com, lfan@mail.uoknor.edu, 
> 95481624J@hkpucc.polyu.edu.hk, shukai@netvigator.com, 
> z2188635@student.unsw.edu.au, mattgow@hotmail.com, 
> z2192026@student.unsw.edu.au, z2174314@student.unsw.edu.au, 
> Steeve.Genot@wanadoo.fr, hsp996@hotmail.com, physpot@asiaonline.net, 
> pixie_tan@hotmail.com, pooi_lee_chow@hotmail.com, eeyatir@hotmail.com, 
> saralee@chevalier.net, patelsu@sbu.ac.uk, beetch@pacific.net.sg, 
> z2188232@student.unsw.edu.au, simpsonngan@hotmail.com, 
> yoon@pacific.net.sg, hamster.sol@lineone.net, stepcom@hkstar.com, 
> ext3366@yahoo.com, tinyau1@netvigator.com, z2193851@student.unsw.edu.au, 
> huvl@sbu.ac.uk, z2193612@student.unsw.edu.au, willmilk@hotmail.com, 
> wswinnie@netvigator.com, brackeye@hkstar.com, takleung@wisdom.com.hk
> >Subject: I don't care if this is real or not! But forwarding is not 
> hard for me if I help
> >Content-Type: text/plain
> >Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 05:55:15 PDT
> >
> >
> >>Received: from 202.184.46.2 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP;
> >>	Tue, 15 Sep 1998 01:39:48 PDT
> >>X-Originating-IP: [202.184.46.2]
> >>From: "san san" 
> >>To: alanling@usa.net, calviny@mol.net.my, chowpin@edb.gov.sg, 
> >chan911@pc.jaring.my, gary_wang@hotmail.com, junifer@pl.jaring.my, 
> >karren@deakin.edu.au, klay@okstate.edu, lkhoong@pc.jaring.my, 
> >mcch@hotmail.com, murphy_l@hotmail.com, simfong@pl.jaring.my, 
> >stchai@pl.jaring.my, mote@hotmail.com, tlliew@tm.net.my, 
> >wthong@pl.jaring.my, dodwellleung@hotmail.com
> >>Subject: Fwd: This is serious PLEEEEEEASE PLEASE DON'T DELETE!!!!!
> >>Content-Type: text/plain
> >>Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 01:39:48 PDT
> >>
> >>
> >>>Received: from 202.188.25.160 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP;
> >>>	Mon, 14 Sep 1998 06:27:23 PDT
> >>>X-Originating-IP: [202.188.25.160]
> >>>From: "Lim Huey" 
> >>>To: alexlimyk@hotmail.com, audrey.looi@mailexcite.com, 
> >>kianwah19@hotmail.com, enyen@hotmail.com, s9812221@unitele.com.my, 
> >>rckj@hotmail.com, seliness@hotmail.com, stanchow@tm.net.my, 
> >>bhchua7@hotmail.com, csheng@rocketmail.com, yoongyow@hotmail.com, 
> >>ching20@hotmail.com, lphoo@hotmail.com, ken_thong@rocketmail.com, 
> >>twinsck@hotmail.com, poaysun@yahoo.com, mda97mk@sheffield.ac.uk, 
> >>yongqiang13@hotmail.com, sammy_lee_79@hotmail.com, 
> >>tungweileong@hotmail.com, lifesignx@yahoo.com, elim331@yahoo.com, 
> >>lwloh@hotmail.com, audrey.looi@mailcity.com, sokyee@pc.jaring.my, 
> >>kah_kit@hotmail.com, siewgar@hotmail.com, chiane@mailcity.com, 
> >>Vvpenguin@hotmail.com, pkleong@hotmail.com, phangf@hotmail.com, 
> >>rolandhii@hotmail.com, stjdanzel@hotmail.com, leesiehui@hotmail.com, 
> >>jeennwei@hotmail.com, chouyong@hotmail.com, ttc1979@yahoo.com, 
> >>guatyen@hotmail.com, chonkit@hotmail.com, thongyp@hotmail.com, 
> >>soonfung@hotmail.com, tsueyyin@hotmail.com, feiyy@hotmail.com
> >>>Subject: Fwd: This is serious PLEEEEEEASE PLEASE DON'T DELETE!!!!!
> >>>Content-Type: text/plain
> >>>Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 06:27:23 PDT
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 04:25:43 -0700 (PDT)
> >>>>From: CHEW JUNN WENG 
> >>>>Subject: This is serious PLEEEEEEASE PLEASE DON'T DELETE!!!!!
> >>>>To: lmoonc@hotmail.com, pvcheo@essex.ac.uk, cwnsim@essex.ac.uk,
> >>>>  yoongyow@hotmail.com, lenelene@hotmail.com, gcping38@mailcity.com,
> >>>>  gthong@rocketmail.com, ching20@hotmail.com, 
> lcchuan@rocketmail.com,
> >>>>  moon@tm.net.my, shaohuey@hotmail.com, janelsl@tm.net.my,
> >>>>  csheng@rocketmail.com, hwooi@yahoo.com, dianacn@hotmail.com,
> >>>>  stjdanzel@hotmail.com, effyjungle@hotmail.com, 
> >bus_tard@hotmail.com,
> >>>>  lphoo@hotmail.com, yakasaki@hotmail.com, colint79@hotmail.com
> >>>>Cc: anniesia@hotmail.com, pearlng@hotmail.com, liangser@hotmail.com,
> >>>>  choopar@hotmail.com
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>Hello, my name is David "Darren" Bucklew. I live in 
> >>>>Pittsburgh PA where I attend Bethel Park High School
> >>>>and participate in  many sports.  I have severe
> >>>>ostriopliosis of the liver. (My liver is extremely 
> >>>>inflamed).
> >>>>Modern Science has yet to find a cure.  Valley
> >>>>Childrens hospital 
> >>>>> has agreed to donate  7 cents to the National
> >>>>Diesese Society for every name 
> >>>> on  this letter.Please send it around as much as you
> >>>>can.
> >>>>Thank you,
> >>>>Darren
> >>>>
> >>>>PS: For those of you who dont take 5 minutes to do 
> >>>>this, what goes around comes around. You can help
> >>>>sick people, and it costs you nothing,yet you are too
> >>>>lazy to do it?  You will get what you deserve. 
> >>>>
> >>>>_________________________________________________________
> >>>>DO YOU YAHOO!?
> >>>>Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>______________________________________________________
> >>>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> >>
> >>
> >>______________________________________________________
> >>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> >
> >
> >______________________________________________________
> >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 13:39:21 +0800
To: Declan McCullagh 
Subject: Re: A personal response to your email to sixdegrees
In-Reply-To: <35FFD638.DB6920D3@sixdegrees.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 10:09 AM -0700 9/16/98, Declan McCullagh wrote:
>Mark, trust me on this: remove all five cypherpunks addresses from your
>lists.
>
>Really.
>

As others have noted, operations like "sixdegrees" need to be very careful
about how list addresses are signed up. This is a problem mailing lists
(formerly called "list exploders," until Congress began to rant about
Internet terrorists) have been dealing with for many years.

"Lists subscribed to lists," with resulting circularity problems, is
something that can bring a list to standstill.

>From the dozens of irate messages about "sixdegrees," and the joking
responses sent to "I hear you are my friend, but who are you?" queries seen
from hapless "sixdegrees" clients, the meltdown may be underway.

There are concrete things you folks can do. When someone is nominated (or
whatever) as a potential contact, you can ask the contactee if he or she
wants this person to be a contact. In other words, take some of the
automation out of the loop.

(Or add more of the right kind, such as sending a cookie or chit back to
the parties and require them to forward the cookies back. This, of course,
adds complexity for the "sixdegrees" customers and may actually cause many
of them to just give up in frustration.)

If you do nothing, expect many of us to get more and more irate at the
abuses your service are facillitating. I expect some of the list
subscribers on lists your service "infects" will take the usual hackers
measures to crash your system.

Not that I necessarily endorse this, but it's happened in the past.

--Tim May

(This space left blank pending determ. of acceptability to the gov't.)
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "sixdegrees"
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 10:53:19 +0800
To: "Joe Cypherpunk"
Subject: Your new password
Message-ID: <199809161546.IAA23087@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Name: Joe Cypherpunk
sixdegrees Password: rollflip

In response to your request for a new sixdegrees(tm) password, 
we have sent you the following temporary password: rollflip. 

As soon as you come to the site, http://www.sixdegrees.com , and use 
it to log-in on the home page, it will become your official 
password, and your old password will be deactivated. 

(If you end up remembering your old password and use that to 
log-in at the site before using this new temporary password, 
the temporary password will be deactivated.)

This may seem wacky, but it's for your security. And, either 
way, once you successfully log-in at the site, you can go to 
your personal profile and choose whatever password you like - 
in fact, we encourage you to do so.

If you never requested a new password and got this message in 
error, just continue using your old password and e-mail us at 
issues@sixdegrees.com. 

====================================================================
PLEASE NOTE: All replies to this address are processed by a computer.
If you have any problems, questions or requests send an e-mail to 
issues@sixdegrees.com and someone will get back to you as soon as 
possible.
====================================================================




E.SI.REQPW.1




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bmccaffrey@executive.com
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 15:02:15 +0800
To: cypherpunks@sirius.infonex.com
Subject: RE: the people
Message-ID: <4CBEEB8C7D24D211971500A0C98F15BC02EE85@mail.executive.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Monday, September 14, 1998 - 23:20:36

Question: How is it, that the FBI has so much power?
Answer: Because 'the people' didn't do swat to stop them[the FBI].

Question: How do 'the people' change the situation?
Answer: 'The people' get out their banners and megaphones and march on
the Congress.

Question: What do 'the people' do then they[Congress] don't hear 'the
people'?
Answer: 'The people' go on strike.

Question: What do 'the people' do when Congress doesn't care about their
strikes?
Answer: 'The people' fire their M16'eens at Congress which they brought
with them.

Question: So where are 'the people'?      
Answer: At home watching the coverage of these exciting events on TV.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Steve Mynott 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 05:50:19 +0800
To: cypherpunks 
Subject: Investigators find "assassination" page on the Web
Message-ID: <19980916114905.A11245@tightrope.demon.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



http://cnn.com/TECH/computing/9809/15/internet.hit.list.ap/index.html
   
Investigators find "assassination" page on the Web

   hit.list September 15, 1998
   Web posted at 4:07 PM ET
   
   Portland, Oregon (AP) -- Three Internal Revenue Service agents and a
   federal magistrate are the targets on what's described as an Internet
   "assassination" Web page.
   
   All four have prices on their heads -- in unusual amounts like 512
   dollars and two cents.
   
   IRS investigators think it was posted by a patient in a federal mental
   hospital.
   
   The page is thought to be from an essay called "Assassination
   Politics." That essay -- written by a jailed tax protester --
   describes a supposedly risk-free way to reward those who assassinate
   public officials.
   
   Anyone who wants to see someone killed contributes to a fund which --
   when large enough -- attracts a killer who predicts the date, time and
   location for the deed to be done.
   
   If it happens, the killer is paid with untraceable digital money.

-- 
pgp 1024/D9C69DF9 1997/10/14 steve mynott 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 14:09:53 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: US Updates Crypto Policy
In-Reply-To: <199809161613.MAA07615@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <36000A69.74D5@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>      As the Vice President stated in a letter to Senator Daschle, the
> Administration remains committed to assuring that the nation?s law
> enforcement community will be able to access, under strictly defined legal
> procedures, the plain text of criminally related communications and stored
> information.   The Administration intends to support FBI?s establishment of
> a technical support center to help build the technical capacity of law
> enforcement - Federal, State, and local - to stay abreast of advancing
> communications technology.
> 
Considering that domestic controls are not discussed they are certainly
mentioning a lot of activities that sound like they would be taking
place here in the US. They also mention a wide range of LEAs that would
welcome domestic controls. 

Is this just a continuation of the attempt to control domestic use by
export policy? 

Mike




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 05:06:53 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Fwd: I don't care if this is real or not!
Message-ID: <199809161001.MAA18320@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



You suck... Die prick, die



Crack head  wrote:
>
> 
> >Received: from 136.148.1.253 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP;
> >	Tue, 15 Sep 1998 05:55:15 PDT
> >X-Originating-IP: [136.148.1.253]
> >From: "Dodwell Leung" 
> >To: alexccl@hotmail.com, z2181727@student.unsw.edu.au, 
> antonylam@hotmail.com, chonga@sbu.ac.uk,
z2183890@student.unsw.edu.au, 
> lcy@qms.ndirect.co.uk, z2155343@student.unsw.edu.au,
bahrid@hotmail.com, 
> daner@mail.mkv.mh.se, Evert.P.deVries@SI.shell.com, 
> harold.tan@mailexcite.com, ivanyip@hotmail.com, catkoo@hotmail.com, 
> jennyshek@hotmail.com, BKKsomporb@mail.nomura.com.hk, 
> joe621@netvigator.com, heyloe@hotmail.com, kmyk@hotmail.com, 
> kenjess@apanet.com.au, lawhon@hotmail.com, lfan@mail.uoknor.edu, 
> 95481624J@hkpucc.polyu.edu.hk, shukai@netvigator.com, 
> z2188635@student.unsw.edu.au, mattgow@hotmail.com, 
> z2192026@student.unsw.edu.au, z2174314@student.unsw.edu.au, 
> Steeve.Genot@wanadoo.fr, hsp996@hotmail.com, physpot@asiaonline.net, 
> pixie_tan@hotmail.com, pooi_lee_chow@hotmail.com,
eeyatir@hotmail.com, 
> saralee@chevalier.net, patelsu@sbu.ac.uk, beetch@pacific.net.sg, 
> z2188232@student.unsw.edu.au, simpsonngan@hotmail.com, 
> yoon@pacific.net.sg, hamster.sol@lineone.net, stepcom@hkstar.com, 
> ext3366@yahoo.com, tinyau1@netvigator.com,
z2193851@student.unsw.edu.au, 
> huvl@sbu.ac.uk, z2193612@student.unsw.edu.au, willmilk@hotmail.com, 
> wswinnie@netvigator.com, brackeye@hkstar.com, takleung@wisdom.com.hk
> >Subject: I don't care if this is real or not! But forwarding is not 
> hard for me if I help
> >Content-Type: text/plain
> >Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 05:55:15 PDT
> >
> >
> >>Received: from 202.184.46.2 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP;
> >>	Tue, 15 Sep 1998 01:39:48 PDT
> >>X-Originating-IP: [202.184.46.2]
> >>From: "san san" 
> >>To: alanling@usa.net, calviny@mol.net.my, chowpin@edb.gov.sg, 
> >chan911@pc.jaring.my, gary_wang@hotmail.com, junifer@pl.jaring.my, 
> >karren@deakin.edu.au, klay@okstate.edu, lkhoong@pc.jaring.my, 
> >mcch@hotmail.com, murphy_l@hotmail.com, simfong@pl.jaring.my, 
> >stchai@pl.jaring.my, mote@hotmail.com, tlliew@tm.net.my, 
> >wthong@pl.jaring.my, dodwellleung@hotmail.com
> >>Subject: Fwd: This is serious PLEEEEEEASE PLEASE DON'T DELETE!!!!!
> >>Content-Type: text/plain
> >>Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 01:39:48 PDT
> >>
> >>
> >>>Received: from 202.188.25.160 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP;
> >>>	Mon, 14 Sep 1998 06:27:23 PDT
> >>>X-Originating-IP: [202.188.25.160]
> >>>From: "Lim Huey" 
> >>>To: alexlimyk@hotmail.com, audrey.looi@mailexcite.com, 
> >>kianwah19@hotmail.com, enyen@hotmail.com, s9812221@unitele.com.my, 
> >>rckj@hotmail.com, seliness@hotmail.com, stanchow@tm.net.my, 
> >>bhchua7@hotmail.com, csheng@rocketmail.com, yoongyow@hotmail.com, 
> >>ching20@hotmail.com, lphoo@hotmail.com, ken_thong@rocketmail.com, 
> >>twinsck@hotmail.com, poaysun@yahoo.com, mda97mk@sheffield.ac.uk, 
> >>yongqiang13@hotmail.com, sammy_lee_79@hotmail.com, 
> >>tungweileong@hotmail.com, lifesignx@yahoo.com, elim331@yahoo.com, 
> >>lwloh@hotmail.com, audrey.looi@mailcity.com, sokyee@pc.jaring.my, 
> >>kah_kit@hotmail.com, siewgar@hotmail.com, chiane@mailcity.com, 
> >>Vvpenguin@hotmail.com, pkleong@hotmail.com, phangf@hotmail.com, 
> >>rolandhii@hotmail.com, stjdanzel@hotmail.com,
leesiehui@hotmail.com, 
> >>jeennwei@hotmail.com, chouyong@hotmail.com, ttc1979@yahoo.com, 
> >>guatyen@hotmail.com, chonkit@hotmail.com, thongyp@hotmail.com, 
> >>soonfung@hotmail.com, tsueyyin@hotmail.com, feiyy@hotmail.com
> >>>Subject: Fwd: This is serious PLEEEEEEASE PLEASE DON'T DELETE!!!!!
> >>>Content-Type: text/plain
> >>>Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 06:27:23 PDT
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 04:25:43 -0700 (PDT)
> >>>>From: CHEW JUNN WENG 
> >>>>Subject: This is serious PLEEEEEEASE PLEASE DON'T DELETE!!!!!
> >>>>To: lmoonc@hotmail.com, pvcheo@essex.ac.uk, cwnsim@essex.ac.uk,
> >>>>  yoongyow@hotmail.com, lenelene@hotmail.com,
gcping38@mailcity.com,
> >>>>  gthong@rocketmail.com, ching20@hotmail.com, 
> lcchuan@rocketmail.com,
> >>>>  moon@tm.net.my, shaohuey@hotmail.com, janelsl@tm.net.my,
> >>>>  csheng@rocketmail.com, hwooi@yahoo.com, dianacn@hotmail.com,
> >>>>  stjdanzel@hotmail.com, effyjungle@hotmail.com, 
> >bus_tard@hotmail.com,
> >>>>  lphoo@hotmail.com, yakasaki@hotmail.com, colint79@hotmail.com
> >>>>Cc: anniesia@hotmail.com, pearlng@hotmail.com,
liangser@hotmail.com,
> >>>>  choopar@hotmail.com
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>Hello, my name is David "Darren" Bucklew. I live in 
> >>>>Pittsburgh PA where I attend Bethel Park High School
> >>>>and participate in  many sports.  I have severe
> >>>>ostriopliosis of the liver. (My liver is extremely 
> >>>>inflamed).
> >>>>Modern Science has yet to find a cure.  Valley
> >>>>Childrens hospital 
> >>>>> has agreed to donate  7 cents to the National
> >>>>Diesese Society for every name 
> >>>> on  this letter.Please send it around as much as you
> >>>>can.
> >>>>Thank you,
> >>>>Darren
> >>>>
> >>>>PS: For those of you who dont take 5 minutes to do 
> >>>>this, what goes around comes around. You can help
> >>>>sick people, and it costs you nothing,yet you are too
> >>>>lazy to do it?  You will get what you deserve. 
> >>>>
> >>>>_________________________________________________________
> >>>>DO YOU YAHOO!?
> >>>>Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>______________________________________________________
> >>>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> >>
> >>
> >>______________________________________________________
> >>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> >
> >
> >______________________________________________________
> >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> 
> 

==
"The same thing we do every night Pinkey,
 try to take over the WORLD!"
                          - The brain
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 14:05:57 +0800
To: Richard.Bragg@ssa.co.uk
Subject: Re: Democracy...
In-Reply-To: <80256681.0031C8CB.00@seunt002e.ssa.co.uk>
Message-ID: <36000B3E.780C@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> However, if you believe in something to be life changing and > beneficial to both the idividual and society you'll want or be
> compelled to "pass it on". 
>
Altruistic on the surface. Regarding religion though, why do I always
get the feeling that when implemented and empowered it is judgemental
and intolerant of those who do not fall properly in line?

> What I wanted to illustrate is that there are absolutes, to say there
> are no obsolutes is in itself an absolute and so is self defeating.
>
All right Mr. Logic, you're so sharp, give me ONE example of a *moral*
absolute.

> We must have absolutes.
>
We do: speed of light, mass of the electron, probably, but behavior? We
have behaviors that facilitate our persistance and propagation as a
species at ever increasing densities. Operating outside the boundaries
is neither right nor wrong, simply different. Not necessarily without
consequences, but simply different. Your yardstick is an hallucination
to which you cling to forlornly like a kitten clinging to a stick in a
raging river.

Mike

ps - is 'forlornly' really a word? I think so, but it looks odd today.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Eric Cordian 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 12:05:44 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: The DES Analytic Crack Project
In-Reply-To: <35FF6B68.41B863BB@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
Message-ID: <199809161706.MAA16662@wire.insync.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Mok-Kong Shen  writes:
 
> As far as I know Boolean minimization has been one of the central
> themes of people doing circuit design from the beginning. I should be
> surprised if there are spectacular breakthroughs recently.
 
The general boolean minimization problem is hard.  A specific boolean
minimization problem may or may not be difficult to solve.
 
Going back to our "safe execution" analogy; determining the runtime
properties of an arbitrary computer program by examination of the code
is impossible.  Determining whether Bob's page of assembler will write
all over the OS may be easy or hard, depending upon the code in
question.
 
Knapsack with power of two integers is trivial, general knapsack is
NP-Complete, and random knapsack is not secure enough to be used as a
strong cryptosystem.
 
So given a specific problem, like DES, it is wrong to say that DES is
combinatorially intractable because general satisfiability is hard or
general boolean minimization is hard and DES has a polynomial
reduction into such a problem, or that DES cannot be broken
analytically because there have been no "spectacular breakthroughs" in
the general case of these other problems.
 
DES is a single instance, not a class of problems.  It is of some
constant degree of difficulty, and solving it, even under the image of
a transformation into an instance of some other well-known problem,
implies things only about the strength of DES, and not about the
general case of other classes of problems which might be used to
represent it.
 
Breaking N-Round DES tells us only about the resistance of N-Round DES
to whatever attack we are using, and does not imply intractable
problems do not exist, or disclose some new sneak attack against all
problems in NP.
 
After this project is done, hard problems will still be hard.
 
Hopefully what will have been demonstrated is that a small simple
block cipher designed in the mid-70's is algebraically crunchable in a
lot less time than an exhaustive search would take.  An interesting
result, but one which has no huge implications for the larger scheme
of things.

-- 
Sponsor the DES Analytic Crack Project
http://www.cyberspace.org/~enoch/crakfaq.html
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 11:19:12 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: US Updates Crypto Policy
Message-ID: <199809161613.MAA07615@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



http://library.whitehouse.gov/PressReleases-plain.cgi?date=0&briefing=3

                              THE WHITE HOUSE

                       Office of the Press Secretary

____________________________________________________________________
For Immediate Release
September 16, 1998


                     STATEMENT BY THE PRESS SECRETARY

                 Administration Updates Encryption Policy


     The Clinton Administration today announced a series of steps to update
its encryption policy in a way that meets the full range of national
interests:  promotes electronic commerce, supports law enforcement and
national security and protects privacy.  These steps are a result of
several months of intensive dialogue between the government and U.S.
industry, the law enforcement community and privacy groups that was called
for by the Vice President and supported by members of Congress.

     As the Vice President stated in a letter to Senator Daschle, the
Administration remains committed to assuring that the nation?s law
enforcement community will be able to access, under strictly defined legal
procedures, the plain text of criminally related communications and stored
information.   The Administration intends to support FBI?s establishment of
a technical support center to help build the technical capacity of law
enforcement - Federal, State, and local - to stay abreast of advancing
communications technology.

     The Administration will also strengthen its support for electronic
commerce by permitting the export of strong encryption when used to protect

sensitive financial, health, medical, and business proprietary information
in electronic form.  The updated export policy will allow U.S. companies
new opportunities to sell encryption products to almost 70 percent of the
world?s economy, including the European Union, the Caribbean and some Asian
and South American countries.  These changes in export policy were based on
input from industry groups while being protective of national security and
law enforcement interests.

     The new export guidelines will permit exports to other industries
beyond financial institutions, and further streamline exports of key
recovery products and other recoverable encryption products.  Exports to
those end users and destination countries not addressed by today?s
announcement will continue to be reviewed on a case-by-case basis.

     Very strong encryption with any key length (with or without key
recovery) will now be permitted for export, under license exception, to
several industry sectors.   For example, U.S. companies will be able to
export very strong encryption for use between their headquarters and their
foreign subsidiaries worldwide except the seven terrorist countries (Iran,
Iraq, Libya, Syria, Sudan, North Korea and Cuba) to protect their sensitive
company proprietary information.

     On-line merchants in 45 countries will be able to use robust U.S.
encryption products to protect their on-line electronic commerce
transactions with their customers over the Internet.

     Insurance companies as well as the health and medical sectors in those
same 46 countries will be able to purchase and use robust U.S. encryption
products to secure health and insurance data among legitimate users such as
hospitals, health care professionals, patients, insurers and their
customers.

     The new guidelines also allow encryption hardware and software
products with encryption strength up to 56-bit DES or equivalent to be
exported without a license, after a one time technical review, to all users
outside the seven terrorist countries.    Currently, streamlined exports of
DES products are permitted for those companies that have filed key recovery
business plans.  However, with the new guidelines, key recovery business
plans will no longer be required.

     The Administration will continue to promote the development of key
recovery products by easing regulatory requirements.   For the more than 60
companies which have submitted plans to develop and market key recovery
encryption products, the six month progress reviews will no longer be

required.  Once the products are ready for market, they can be exported,
with any bit length -- without a license -- world-wide (except to terrorist
nations) after a one-time review.   Furthermore, exporters will no longer
need to name or submit additional information on a key recovery agent prior
to export.  These requirements will be removed from the regulations.

     Finally, industry has identified other so-called "recoverable"
products and techniques that allow for the recovery of plaintext by a
system or network administrator and that can also assist law enforcement
access, subject to strict procedures.   The Administration will permit
their export for use within most foreign commercial firms, and their
wholly-owned subsidiaries, in large markets, including Western Europe,
Japan and Australia, to protect their internal business proprietary
communications.

     The Administration welcomes a continued dialogue with U.S. industry
and intends to review its policy in one year to determine if additional
updates may be necessary to continue a balanced approach that protects the
public safety and national security, ensures privacy, enables continued
technology leadership by U.S. industry and promotes electronic commerce.


                                   # # #







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Jean-Francois Avon" 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 11:18:51 +0800
To: "cdn-firearms-digest@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca>
Subject: Political purges and Bill C-68
Message-ID: <199809161614.MAA06660@cti06.citenet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Hi to all of you.  I know most of you personnally, except for the posts to 
mailing lists and public organisms.

------------------ beginning of letter ---------------
Yesterday night, around 2am, I was unable to sleep and surfing the TV 
channels up until I fell on a movie on the ShowCase channel.  This channel 
is devoted to repertoire cinema and less mainstream movies.

As I flick to this channel, I see something I can't take my eyes off for 
it's overwhelming revolting topic:  a bunch of corpses are on a dolly, each 
of one being tied by the feet to a crane cable and quickly, efficiently 
taken away to a big heap of corpses.

Then, a lineup of peoples, waiting in line to pass before some officer.  
They are promplty urged to take off their clothes, aligned to face a wall 
and shot in the back of the head.  And this continues like an dis-assembly 
chain.  

I did not bear more than a few minutes of the thing.  During thoses few 
minutes, maybe five or six rows of five peoples were slaughtered.  Peoples 
of all walk of life, of all ages, young and olds, male and females, 
beautiful and ugly, strugling or resigned were executed by an indifferent 
row of unintelligent and/or psychotic thugs that simply "executed orders".  
There was the firing squad captain that did not shoot but that gave the 
firing orders, so that the thugs could sleep without remorse.  There was 
their superior supervising the whole slaughterhouse operation and finally, 
there was the political supervisor, dressed in the "de rigueur" grey with 
grey hat.  This operation was clearly in the context of some political 
purge.

I did not comprehend the full details of the context, but it appeared that 
it was happening during the russian revolution, or more possibly in East 
Germany after WW-II.

The executed peoples were helpless, at the mercy of thoses thugs because 
they had no way to respond to death threat by death threat.  Most of them 
had accepted their fate and walked to their death attempting to defend 
themselves with calm reason, useless in this context since the firing squad 
was composed of idiots and psychotics.  One girls pleaded for her life and 
her great beauty made the animals of the firing squad hesitate, but was 
promptly shot in the head from a distance by the political supervisor.

And it dawned on me that it could never had happened in a society where gun 
ownership was unregulated, and it also dawned on me that it is the essence 
of the natural outcome of all gun regulation/registration schemes.  That to 
provide that kind of power  to the ruling political class is the ultimate 
goal of gun registration and regulation, notwithstanding that they chose to 
exert it or not.

Very soon (in principle on october 1st 1998), under the new bill C-68 , you 
will be declared a criminal in the full sense of the law, just as if you had 
killed somebody, if you don't register your guns (or don't plan to do so 
before the limit date comes up in a few years).

Putting aside for a moment the tremendous costs associated with that C-68 
nonsense (around 2 billions $ wasted money) we must realize that private 
law-abiding firearm owners account for 0.08% of all homicides commited with 
a firearms.

So, I ask because I consider it of extreme importance, what's the ULTIMATE 
purpose of declaring criminal seven millions of individuals who wants 
nothing more than lead peacefull lifes?
----------- end of letter --------------

Jean-Francois Avon, Montreal, Canada

Hitler, Stalin, Pinochet, PolPot and every other notorious psychotic 
butchers insisted on a tight control of privately owned firearms.  I wonder 
why?

"nobody runs faster than a bullet"   - supposedly from Idi Amin Dada

Jean-Francois Avon, B.Sc. Physics, Montreal, Canada
  DePompadour, Société d'Importation Ltée
     Limoges fine porcelain and french crystal
  JFA Technologies, R&D physicists & engineers
     Instrumentation & control, LabView programming
PGP keys: http://bs.mit.edu:8001/pks-toplev.html
PGP ID:C58ADD0D:529645E8205A8A5E F87CC86FAEFEF891 
PGP ID:5B51964D:152ACCBCD4A481B0 254011193237822C





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 14:07:46 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Would Congress have been affected by the CDA?
In-Reply-To: <199809161729.TAA18190@replay.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 10:29 AM -0700 9/16/98, Anonymous wrote:

>Had the Communications Decency Act withstood
>judicial review (which it did not), posting the
>Starr report to the Internet arguably would have
>subjected the posters to fines of $250,000 and 5
>years in prison.

You're missing an important point: when has government not found ways to
exempt itself from laws? Whether the laws are about Social Security,
overtime, quotas for hiring, or even libel and slander, Congress and the
other branches exempt themselves. How convenient.

I don't know for sure if buried in Section 17, Paragraph 42  of the CDA was
an exemption for Official Government Documents, but I expect lawyers
would've found ample ways to publish what they want to publish. Amongst
other things, there would be many problems in forcing official documents,
court reports, executive findings, etc., to be bowdlerized to meet the CDA
requirements.

And the burrowcrats just _love_ to have laws which apply to the sheeple,
and not to them.

So I wouldn't make too much of this "apparent violation" of the CDA.

Don't forget that throughout history bluenoses and puritans have gotten off
on holding up examples of thoughtcrime.

--Tim May

(This space left blank pending determ. of acceptability to the gov't.)
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "BulletProof Customer Support" 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 14:21:11 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: JDesignerPro 3.0 Enterprise Edition
Message-ID: <19980916190405551.AXZ392@www.bulletproof.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Hi Cypher,

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To be removed from our mailing list please reply to this with "remove" in
the subject.
 
 
 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 11:33:28 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: US Crypto Update Fact Sheet
Message-ID: <199809161625.MAA31953@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



http://library.whitehouse.gov/PressReleases-plain.cgi?date=0&briefing=4

The White House Briefing Room
September 16, 1998
FACT SHEET


                              THE WHITE HOUSE

                       Office of the Press Secretary

______________________________________________________________________
For Immediate Release
September 16, 1998


                                FACT SHEET

                 Administration Updates Encryption Policy


    Exports of 56-bit DES and equivalent products (hardware and software)
     will be streamlined (under license exception).  Requirements for key
     recovery plans are eliminated.

    Exports of unlimited strength encryption products (with or without key
     recovery) will be streamlined (under license exception) to certain
     industries.  The sectors are:

    Subsidiaries of U.S. Firms, worldwide (except seven terrorist nations).

    Insurance companies to the same 45 countries recently approved for
     exports to banks and financial institution exports.

    Health and medical organizations (including civilian government health
     agencies) in the same 45 countries.  Does not include
     biochemical/pharmaceutical manufacturers.

    On-line merchants for client-server applications, in the same 45
   countries, with the purpose of securing electronic transactions between
   merchants and their customers.  Does not include manufacturers and
   distributors of items controlled on the U.S. munitions list.

    Key Recovery products will continue to be exportable under license
     exception worldwide (except seven terrorist nations).  Review of
     foreign key recovery agents is eliminated.

    Exports of "recoverable" products will be approved to most commercial
     firms, and their wholly-owned subsidiaries, in a broad range of
     countries under encryption licensing arrangements.  This group of
     countries covers most major commercial markets including Western
     Europe, Japan, and Australia.  The policy does not include service
     providers and manufacturers and distributors of items controlled on
     the U.S. munitions list.

    Exports to end users or destinations outside this policy are possible
     on a case-by-case basis.

    Prior to export, products are subject to a one-time product technical
     review.

                                   # # #








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 11:55:49 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Clinton's fake apologies (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809161720.MAA07023@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: 16 Sep 1998 16:47:28 -0000
> From: Anonymous 
> Subject: Re: Clinton's fake apologies (fwd)

> Presumably he should lie to protect the state.

Then don't take the oath:

To tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

 So lieing per se isn't the problem.
> It is the use of the privilege where it doesn't apply that upsets you.

No, it's the fact that he took an oath to tell the truth and didn't.

 Murky water
> for impeachment, methinks.

Then you don't think very well.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "sixdegrees"<90cd50e1@auto.sixdegrees.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 11:43:54 +0800
To: "Jolly CyberSnot"
Subject: Your new password
Message-ID: <199809161636.JAA23664@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Name: Jolly CyberSnot
sixdegrees password: suchlamp

Congratulations Jolly. You're well on your way to 
becoming a full sixdegrees(tm) member. Here is your member 
password: suchlamp. Use it to log-in on the home page 
at the sixdegrees Web site, http://www.sixdegrees.com. 
We'll ask you for a little more information to complete your 
registration, and then you'll be ready to start networking. 

It's important that you return to the site and log-in. Your 
membership will not be complete until you do so.

Once you've successfully logged in with your password, just go 
to Personal Profile and you'll be able to choose your own 
password.

Thanks for becoming part of sixdegrees. We're looking forward 
to seeing you at the site. 

====================================================================
PLEASE NOTE: All replies to this address are processed by a computer.
If you believe you received this e-mail in error, and it was not your 
intention to become a sixdegrees member, or if you have any problems, 
questions or requests send an e-mail to issues@sixdegrees.com
and someone will get back to you as soon as possible.
====================================================================


E.SI.BAM.1




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 14:40:00 +0800
To: "'cypherpunks@cyberpass.net>
Subject: RE: It's finally over (was Re: Explanation of Harald Fragner and  cypherpunks)
Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A19284687@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




> ---Mark Salamon  wrote:
> >
> > Thanks for the reply.  I have now received about 10 such 
> > replies.  We will take them to heart, remove the cypherpunks 
> > and attempt to deal with the mailing list issue in an 
> > intelligent way.

Most lists and services have dealt with the problem of someone
accidentally subscribing or maliciously subscribing someone else in one
of two ways:

A) send and acknowledgement message with a randomly generated
authorization code that requires the user to respond.
B) send out a password and require the user to login before account is
activated.

This works only if you assume the malicious individual will not receive
mail sent to that address. This therefore falls down when the address is
a mailing list or other distribution point that the malicious individual
has access to directly or via archives.

What we really need is an automated system that could authorize/deny an
address prior to the code/password being sent that would keep track of
distribution list addresses and such.

Perhaps I'll create one myself soon.

	Matt





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 11:41:07 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: US Updates Crypto Policy
Message-ID: <199809161642.MAA01758@panix7.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



   >   From: John Young 
   >
   >   http://library.whitehouse.gov/PressReleases-plain.cgi?date=0&briefing=3
   >
   >                                 THE WHITE HOUSE
   >   ____________________________________________________________________
   >   For Immediate Release
   >   September 16, 1998
   >
   >                    Administration Updates Encryption Policy
   [snip]
   >        Very strong encryption with any key length (with or without key
   >   recovery) will now be permitted for export, under license exception, to
   >   several industry sectors.
   [snip]
   >        On-line merchants in 45 countries will be able to use robust U.S.
   >   encryption products to protect their on-line electronic commerce
   >   transactions with their customers over the Internet.

On-line merchants?

Anyone care to try and purchase US-strong crypto from overseas
for their WWW business? Which crypto products?

What are the minimum "business" requirements? ;-)
---guy

   How long does it take to get approval?




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Sunder 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 12:08:40 +0800
To: AIMSX@aol.com
Subject: Re: Larry Gilbert, AOLers, and the Hyper-real flamer
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <35FFEE4E.24B7466D@brainlink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



AIMSX@aol.com wrote:
 
> Actually.. I am getting a SunOS Shell account this weekend.  AOL has improved
> service somewhat, and it is now possible to use Netscape (or any other
> browser) along with it.

Okay, so you're getting a shell account, good for you.
 
> I also have over 100 accounts on a local ISP - so trust me... it's not that
> big of a deal for me to get another ISP, I just like some of the keywords and
> a few other areas.

Something smells vaguely like rotten tuna, you already have 100 accounts on a
local ISP. Why does anyone need more than one account on any ISP?  That being
the case, why do you need another account for on a SunOS box?

If the ISP is >>>>LOCAL<<<< to you, why do you need to dial AOL to use all the
32 bit TCP/IP protocols?  Why not dial up to the ISP and use PPP? Why do you
need to post from AOL when you can post from one of your over 100 ISP accounts?
 
> As for your thought that it is a CHOICE for everyone... well, I am sorry to
> say it is not.  My parent would rather use the [semi]- user-friendly software
> of AOL, which she is familiar with, than have a dialup access with browsers
> and other utilities in different areas she can't find as easily.  (I know, it
> sounds stupid.)

Damn straight it's stupid, but not your mom: So fucking which is it?  Either
you have a hundred (and now 101) accounts on local ISP's >OR< you're forced to
use AOL by your clueless mom.
 
> getting a shell account, and not all AOLers are stupid warez lovers that don't
> know cu from cd.

> I am sure there are morons on other ISP's, they are just more visible on AOL.

That's obvious.  Some of them have over 100 accounts on the same ISP, and are
truly so full of shit, that they're swimming in it.  Kid, by bullshiting, all
you're doing is enforcing the view that AOL users are really AOLusers.

-- 

=====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos==============
.+.^.+.|       Sunder       |Prying open my 3rd eye.  So good to see |./|\.
..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were      |/\|/\
<--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run  |\/|\/
../|\..| "A toast to Odin,  |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/.
.+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were....            |.....
======================= http://www.sundernet.com ==========================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 15:37:45 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Is nym.alias.net down?
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Anonymous wrote:
> 
> Is nym.alias.net down? I've sent a request twice using
> a different remailer chain each time yet it still doesn't
> reply. It's been about two days since I sent it in.
> 
> I did however create a nym with dongco.hyperreal.art.pl.
> Is this service reliable? or will it disppear quickly?

Please, try creating a testxxx by direct mail first. Then
upgrade to a remailer chain. 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bart Troyan 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 12:30:27 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: It's finally over (was Re: Explanation of Harald Fragner and cypherpunks)
Message-ID: <35FFF486.A3DD8B9A@yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



---Mark Salamon  wrote:
>
> Thanks for the reply.  I have now received about 10 such replies.  We
> will take them to heart, remove the cypherpunks and attempt to deal with
> the mailing list issue in an intelligent way.
> 
> And thanks, but we have enough magazine subscriptions already.  :)
> 
> Mark
> 
> Bart Troyan wrote:
> > 
> > OK, here's what happened.  Someone signed up for sixdegrees using one or
> > more of the cypherpunks addresses as their address, either deliberately in
> > order to cause problems like this, or accidentally, not realizing what
> > would happen.
> > 
> > The real-world analogy would be for me and all my friends to get a bunch of
> > magazines, rip out all those postage-paid subscription flaps, and fill out
> > your name and address on each of them, then you'd have unwanted trial
> > subscriptions to lots and lots of magazines.
> > 
> > hmmmm...
> > MacroView
> > 90 William Street, Suite 301
> > New York, NY 10038
> > 
> > Wouldn't that suck?  Can you imagine if 1000 people did that to you all the
> > same day?  (this is *not* a threat, just an example).  You'd have bags and
> > bags of zines and bills coming in daily...
> > 
> > As I am sure you are aware, the net makes it REALLY EASY to screw someone
> > over like that, by signing them up for all sorts of things with little
> > effort.  Even if you remove all the cypherpunks addresses, someone can come
> > along and do it again.  There must be a permanent solution...how about
> > hardcoding a block on signing up with an address containing the string
> > "cypherpunks" in your email software?  Why should thousands of us on
> > cypherpunks all have to do our own filtering to delete everything from
> > @sixdegrees.com and still have to waste all that bandwidth when one site is
> > the source of all of it, and it could be eradicated with a simple
> > programming change?
> > 
> > I assure you this is not the last time you'll see this problem occur--there
> > are thousands of mailing lists out there, and lots of vindictive former
> > subscribers for each one that would love to annoy everyone on the list for
> > a while...  and signing a list up for sixdegrees does the trick quite
> > efficiently.
> > 
> > -Bart
> > 
> > Mark Salamon wrote:
> > > What is confusing to me is that the email you received from sixdegrees
> > > (with the subject:  Harald Fragner) is one that would be sent ONLY to a
> > > CONFIRMED sixdegrees user.  That means that once upon a time, whether
> > > you remember or not, you joined sixdegrees (as have over 1,000,000
> > > people to date).  It also appears that you listed Harald Fragner as a
>




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Duncan Frissell 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 12:28:29 +0800
To: "Jean-Francois Avon" 
Subject: Re: Political purges and Bill C-68
In-Reply-To: <199809161614.MAA06660@cti06.citenet.net>
Message-ID: <199809161722.NAA01433@mail1.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>Very soon (in principle on october 1st 1998), under the new bill C-68 , you 
>will be declared a criminal in the full sense of the law, just as if you had 
>killed somebody, if you don't register your guns (or don't plan to do so 
>before the limit date comes up in a few years).

Plenty of public storage facilities on this side of the border.

DCF




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 15:32:48 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: RE: Encrypting files.
Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A1928468C@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



PGP International for file encryption, NTSentry or BestCrypt for
virtual-disk encryption.

PGP International
STFM
BestCrypt
http://www.jetico.sci.fi/bcnt.htm
NTSentry
http://www.softwinter.com/sentry.html

All are outside the US.

If anyone has other good recommendations, please add them.

	Matt

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lars Weitze [mailto:chromedemon@netcologne.de]

> Does anyone now a program for WindozeNT to store encrypted 
> data on harddisk.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matt Elliott 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 13:47:46 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: RE: Democracy...
In-Reply-To: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A1928467E@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>As with most the constitution, however, this is theory, not practice. In
>practice there are many laws and case precedence establishing and
>preferring certain religious practices, particularly the institution of
>marriage.

The congress doesn't pass laws regarding marriages.  That is all up to
individual states.



Matt 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 13:38:14 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: Democracy... (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809161903.OAA08336@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: Matthew James Gering 
> Subject: RE: Democracy...
> Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 11:00:09 -0700

> Unless you can show me a religion that does not involve a god or gods,
> and although etymologically unjustified I would claim one that does not
> involve *faith*, then I would say you could NOT be both an atheist and
> religious. Agnostic perhaps, but not an atheist. You can be
> contradictory and hypocritical and claim you are many things, but we are
> talking about a coherent philosophy.

Try pantheism. If one fundamentaly believes that god does not exist, which
clearly involves faith, then yes it is a religion. A religion is a belief
system that provides a relationship between the individual and the totality
of all else (the cosmos if you'll allow me).

By your view an agnostic can't be religion since it is the recognition of
a *lack* of faith, clearly something you require to be religous. An atheist
says that god could exist but doesn't - clearly an act of faith.

There are fundamentaly two types of religions, those that recognize some for
of transcendance and those that don't. Quibbling over what is the 'correct'
form of transcendence is as irrelevant as arguing over the 'correct'
religion.

In either case the same failure to understand human psychology is committed.
In short it is the axiomatic assumption that there *is* a single anything
that will satisfy everyone.

> You can be both spiritual and an atheist. Spirituality does not require
> faith in any external mystical element or being.

What do you mean by 'spiritual'? Are you refering to a ghost-in-the-machine
either at the individual or cosmological level? Whether one believes that
mystical element is external (which if you understood God would clearly be
seen to be a non sequitar with the rest of your argument) or internal is 
irrelevant.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 16:06:08 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: RE: 128 bit or 40 bit?
Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A1928468E@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




> All browsers have the 128 bits encryption inthem, but in the
> non-US version it can only enabled by a 'special cert'.

So what makes it so "special?" A special CA? What happens when that
special CA expires, cannot the user add/modify certs, or does everyone
need to patch their MSIE (or whatever) when that happens.

	Matt




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 14:11:09 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Clinton still doesnt get it
In-Reply-To: <199809161800.UAA20746@replay.com>
Message-ID: <199809161911.PAA23405@domains.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In <199809161800.UAA20746@replay.com>, on 09/16/98 
   at 08:00 PM, Anonymous  said:

>Watch TV and learn the answer.

Of course, why didn't I think of that! If it's on TV it *must* be true!!

I would write more but I have to go watch CNN for my daily dose of
Goodspeak so I can think Goodthoughts.

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: My best view from a Window was through OS/2.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3a-sha1
Charset: cp850
Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000

iQCVAwUBNgAPXo9Co1n+aLhhAQFwFgP/ZM79Cnho28TqEefiZBrZHTb8bm+80ygq
LPZJYainq8wSVgG6mTDpxovBbsCwvYA911KzjxESKwjRI6vjzZYoGyoWJBjX02Qx
n9H3S1QxTIm9XkKw6Dqd+KN8STKk1VzNHhqkL+BGrNEsqvZGC7qhQjHCpXIjfAU8
CEb7KQNUq68=
=fn9o
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William J. Hartwell" 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 16:35:26 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: fascinating quote........
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980916143302.00860df0@mail.xroads.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



This was passed to me by a friend, it may have already made it here and I
missed it. If so forgive the redundant post.






"Yes, the president should resign.  He has lied to the American people,
time and time again, and betrayed their trust.  Since he has admitted guilt,
there is no reason to put the American people through an impeachment.

He will serve absolutely no purpose in finishing out his term, the only
possible solution is for the president to save some dignity and resign."

- From 12th Congressional District Hopeful William Jefferson Clinton
during the Nixon investigations

--
					William J. Hartwell
					   (602)987-8436
					  Queencreek, Az.

billh@ibag.com			billh@interdem.com		billh@hartwell.net




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 14:12:25 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Democracy... (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809161937.OAA08809@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 12:02:22 -0700
> From: Michael Motyka 
> Subject: Re: Democracy...

> All right Mr. Logic, you're so sharp, give me ONE example of a *moral*
> absolute.

Morality and the distinctions that can be drawn from it are a consequence of
the individual and the characteristics of their milieu and their species.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 19:54:58 +0800
To: Matthew James Gering 
Subject: RE: It's finally over (was Re: Explanation of Harald Fragner and  cypherpunks)
In-Reply-To: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A19284687@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
Message-ID: <199809170055.UAA28232@domains.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A19284687@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>, on
09/16/98 
   at 12:37 PM, Matthew James Gering  said:

>What we really need is an automated system that could authorize/deny an
>address prior to the code/password being sent that would keep track of
>distribution list addresses and such.

>Perhaps I'll create one myself soon.

PGP, Digital signatures, CA's, Authentication, ... This *is* a crypto
related group isn't it?

How does Thwart, Verisign, or the other CA's handle authentication of an
e-mail address in there low level certs?

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: Windows?  Homey don't play that!

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3a-sha1
Charset: cp850
Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000

iQCVAwUBNgAY+49Co1n+aLhhAQGPqgP7BKyRdt9xZhk6jWVoOgHU8RuonrTpj7jh
TLOhzOy/F8UyycDnaIUtVlESmbCvCpkTIMyvEo9opcrUOD7Mm3I0JWAQ+nNPSN9T
8lQ45PEyjyYf9jhCySCpvzfan8vGQBFY0eGNFobcp4an7SKxJG1Yib5QRppkfghN
nhd4Wz1GRQA=
=l6Cf
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
 
Tag-O-Matic: I use OS/2 2.0 and I don't care who knows!




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 17:09:19 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: RE: Democracy... (fwd)
Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A19284693@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




> Try pantheism. If one fundamentaly believes that god does not 
> exist, which clearly involves faith, then yes it is a religion.

Then I guess you could say that pantheism is an atheist religion, as
opposed to a theist religion.

My nice definition of atheism is reason over faith, science over
mysticism, basically an anti-religion. While that may be etymologically
unjustified, it does accurately reflect the views of the majority of
people I know who call themselves atheist, myself included.

Notice my brackets:

a- (without) + [theos (god) + ismos (practice or doctrine)]

not

[a- (without) + theos (god)] + ismos (practice or doctrine)

> By your view an agnostic can't be religion

No, and it's not, it's like standing in the doorway of a religion, not
sure whether to enter or leave, perhaps practicing but not believing.
Such indecisiveness annoys me, but it accounts for the majority of the
population.

	Matt




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 17:07:18 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Would Congress have been affected by the CDA?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <360036D8.470B@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Tim May wrote:
> Don't forget that throughout history bluenoses and puritans have gotten off
> on holding up examples of thoughtcrime.
> 
I suppose that allows them to enjoy the material under the guise of
saving the rest of us from it. Or maybe, just maybe, they want to punish
somebody because they are unable to partake of the feast without feeling
guilt strong enough to cause sphincter lockup.

Mike




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: silly@ofb.net
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 17:26:41 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Democracy...
In-Reply-To: <36002351.339B@pro-ns.net>
Message-ID: <19980916222736.1665.qmail@ofb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



> > The congress doesn't pass laws regarding marriages. 
> Yet.
Not really true, IMO.  Consider

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d104:HR03396:@@@L

Signed into law in 1996, The Defense of Marriage Act, seeks to define 
"marriage" as a marriage between one man and one woman, in an attempt to 
prevent gay people from getting, say, married in Hawaii and then getting 
the same protection as other married people.

Unfortunately, it it seems to be in character with the "full faith and 
credit" clause (Article IV, Section 1) of the U.S. Constitution, which 
follows "And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the 
Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved,
and the Effect thereof."

The same rationale could be used in turning state-issued driver's 
licenses into National ID Cards, couldn't it?

(me)




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: zebo 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 15:39:07 +0800
To: Matt Elliott 
Subject: Re: Democracy...
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <36002351.339B@pro-ns.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Matt Elliott wrote:

> The congress doesn't pass laws regarding marriages. 

Yet.

Z




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "sixdegrees"<78hd50g0@auto.sixdegrees.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 14:54:26 +0800
To: "Jolly CyberSnot"
Subject: Your new password
Message-ID: <199809161946.MAA25881@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Name: Jolly CyberSnot
sixdegrees Password: fishmelt

In response to your request for a new sixdegrees(tm) password, 
we have sent you the following temporary password: fishmelt. 

As soon as you come to the site, http://www.sixdegrees.com , and use 
it to log-in on the home page, it will become your official 
password, and your old password will be deactivated. 

(If you end up remembering your old password and use that to 
log-in at the site before using this new temporary password, 
the temporary password will be deactivated.)

This may seem wacky, but it's for your security. And, either 
way, once you successfully log-in at the site, you can go to 
your personal profile and choose whatever password you like - 
in fact, we encourage you to do so.

If you never requested a new password and got this message in 
error, just continue using your old password and e-mail us at 
issues@sixdegrees.com. 

====================================================================
PLEASE NOTE: All replies to this address are processed by a computer.
If you have any problems, questions or requests send an e-mail to 
issues@sixdegrees.com and someone will get back to you as soon as 
possible.
====================================================================




E.SI.REQPW.1




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 15:02:08 +0800
To: 
Subject: RE: Democracy...
In-Reply-To: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A1928467E@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 2:47 PM -0400 on 9/16/98, Matt Elliott wrote:


> The congress doesn't pass laws regarding marriages.  That is all up to
> individual states.

Nit: But, not in Utah, of course. :-).

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "sixdegrees"<5hmd50a5@auto.sixdegrees.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 15:38:22 +0800
To: "Schlomo CyberPoopy"
Subject: Your new password
Message-ID: <199809162032.NAA26383@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Name: Schlomo CyberPoopy
sixdegrees password: linkcusp

Congratulations Schlomo. You're well on your way to 
becoming a full sixdegrees(tm) member. Here is your member 
password: linkcusp. Use it to log-in on the home page 
at the sixdegrees Web site, http://www.sixdegrees.com. 
We'll ask you for a little more information to complete your 
registration, and then you'll be ready to start networking. 

It's important that you return to the site and log-in. Your 
membership will not be complete until you do so.

Once you've successfully logged in with your password, just go 
to Personal Profile and you'll be able to choose your own 
password.

Thanks for becoming part of sixdegrees. We're looking forward 
to seeing you at the site. 

====================================================================
PLEASE NOTE: All replies to this address are processed by a computer.
If you believe you received this e-mail in error, and it was not your 
intention to become a sixdegrees member, or if you have any problems, 
questions or requests send an e-mail to issues@sixdegrees.com
and someone will get back to you as soon as possible.
====================================================================


E.SI.BAM.1




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 11:41:54 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Clinton's fake apologies (fwd)
Message-ID: <19980916164728.9462.qmail@hades.rpini.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Jim Choate wrote:
> 
> > Declan McCullagh  wrote:
> > lying under oath is perjury, whether you like it or not.
> 
> As rare as it is, I agree with Declan here. If Clinton would lie under oath
> about a non-crime (ie sex between consenting adults) what would he do if
> faced with a real issue?
> 
> He should have said "Yeah, I had sex with her. What business is it of
> yours?".
> 

Presumably he should lie to protect the state. So lieing per se isn't the problem.
It is the use of the privilege where it doesn't apply that upsets you. Murky water
for impeachment, methinks.

Furthermore, we have gone from the CDA to government publication of pornography in
short order. Farbeit for any cypherpunk to complain.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: attila 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 11:54:17 +0800
To: Mac Norton 
Subject: Re: Clinton still doesnt get it
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




On Wed, 16 Sep 1998, Mac Norton wrote:

>
>On Tue, 15 Sep 1998, attila wrote:
>
> >  25 years of Clinton's raging psychopathic, oversexed behavior:
> >  Hillary has been a willing partner.
> >
> >  nothing but control freaques and obscene power trippers. there
> >  is only amorality in that house --and power by any means.

>
>  snip
>
> One of you had the good sense to
> post the column i repost below, because that fellow seems to
> have gotten a pretty good handle on this squalid mess.  
>
  
  the American public was informed, and snowed under by the Clintons
  together on TV; unfortunately, the stories very true.  and, it 
  should have been abundantly clear that Hillary, and her far left 
  agenda, was driving the car.
  
  I "like" Clinton for one thing only: he _is_ a made for TV
  President who _could_ project an image to the world which would
  make Americans proud to be Americans.  unfortunately, he never
  graduated from the sandbox" "...it's mine... it's all mine...."
  
  I will grudgingly give Bill credit for accepting the clarion call 
  for him to reign in Hillary, after the health care package she
  shepherded by fascist means, and the largest tax increase in 
  some time; to be a Centrist --too bad it took Newt Gingrich and
  friends to deliver the message.
  
  however, my premise, which you did not include underneath the 
  said by (in fact, the mail [mis]quoting potential places some of
  our more vociferous philosopher kings in jeopardy), is that for
  whatever reason, Clinton was born without, or destroyed enroute,
  any sense of morality --Bill is, and has been, the man who must
  honestly believe he has the right to play the game without rules.
  
  Hillary is unquestionably obsessed not only with power, but 
  revenge for her enemies.  
  
  well, the process goes on; Starr is back to working on White-
  watergate, Fostergate, Travelgate, FBIgate, and a few more 
  "?-gates" --the primary focus probably on Hillary.
  
  and, as much as I think the two of them are scurrilous pests 
  which should be dealt with by Terminix, I don't like the process;
  does America have any pride? not much, and hanging Hillary or 
  Bill will leave America just that much poorer.
  

> But punks . . . well, punks . . . a few years ago when I first
> subscribed to this list, to lurk and learn, as I still mostly
> do, there were some hardasses you could depend on to come out
> of the woodwork when things got way out of space, and they'd 
> say: Punks write code. 
>
> And they were write.
> MacN
>
  correct; and I was one complainer, and part of the group which 
  started coderpunks.   but, cypherpunks, and the arguments and 
  discourses, is an excellent diversion --with the exception of the 
  often one-sided "arbitration and adjudication" of opinion.

  anyone who can follow the threads of cypherpunks continuously
  has too much time on their hands; I can only afford the luxury
  of the occasional hit and run.

	attila out...

__________________________________________________________________________
    go not unto usenet for advice, for the inhabitants thereof will say:
      yes, and no, and maybe, and I don't know, and fuck-off.
_________________________________________________________________ attila__





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 10:16:27 +0800
To: christopher.barkley@srcm.com
Subject: Re: Christopher Barkley
Message-ID: <199809161509.RAA07787@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Oh, yes another guy to give it up so easily!  Now look, why is it that you
let these people tease me with Monica Lewinsky and kiddie porn, and
then take them away from me just as quickly?!  WHAT THE HELL KIND
OF SERVICE ARE YOU RUNNING?!?!??!  Don't you like kiddie porn?
Don't you want to have sex with Monica, just like the prez?

And you tell that cactus humper Christopher "I like little boys" Barkley
to watch his caboose!  The FBI are going to be after him like cheese
on a stick when they find out that Mr. I Have Lotion In My Pants goes
in for children-with-llamas bestiality like he does.  What a maroon!

Joe C.


At 08:54 PM 9/15/98 -0500, sixdegrees wrote:
>Just a quick update from sixdegrees(tm). Unfortunately Christopher 
>Barkley (barkley@cirr.com) asked not to be listed as your 
>contact with sixdegrees.
>
>The good news is that since you have other confirmed contacts, 
>you'll still be able to have a productive sixdegrees experience. 
>But, if you want to continue to increase your networking power, 
>you may want to head over to http://www.sixdegrees.com , log-in 
>and go to MY CONTACTS and list additional contacts. 
>
>
>====================================================================
>PLEASE NOTE: All replies to this address are processed by a computer.
>If you have any problems, questions or requests send an e-mail to 
>issues@sixdegrees.com and someone will get back to you as soon as 
>possible.
>====================================================================
>
>
>
>
>E.DB.BRESP.2
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 10:21:03 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Harald Fragner
Message-ID: <199809161517.RAA08343@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I think Harald Fragner has to take you off the list.  Talk to him about
it.

Hope this helps!


At 09:14 PM 9/15/98 -0400, John Scott Porterfield wrote:
>How do I get off this list!!!  
>
>Bob
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Sunder 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 16:36:42 +0800
To: zebo 
Subject: Re: Democracy...
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <36002E61.C2427AFA@brainlink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



zebo wrote:
> 
> Matt Elliott wrote:
> 
> > The congress doesn't pass laws regarding marriages.
> 
> Yet.
> 
> Z

Yes, that's the IRS's job. :^)

-- 

=====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos==============
.+.^.+.|       Sunder       |Prying open my 3rd eye.  So good to see |./|\.
..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were      |/\|/\
<--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run  |\/|\/
../|\..| "A toast to Odin,  |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/.
.+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were....            |.....
======================= http://www.sundernet.com ==========================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 17:13:19 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: Democracy... (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809162238.RAA09965@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: Matthew James Gering 
> Subject: RE: Democracy... (fwd)
> Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 15:07:37 -0700

> > Try pantheism. If one fundamentaly believes that god does not 
> > exist, which clearly involves faith, then yes it is a religion.
> 
> Then I guess you could say that pantheism is an atheist religion, as
> opposed to a theist religion.

You could, but you'd be wrong.

> My nice definition of atheism is reason over faith, science over
> mysticism, basically an anti-religion. While that may be etymologically
> unjustified, it does accurately reflect the views of the majority of
> people I know who call themselves atheist, myself included.

Atheism means that one believes that there is no God.

> > By your view an agnostic can't be religion
> 
> No, and it's not, it's like standing in the doorway of a religion, not
> sure whether to enter or leave, perhaps practicing but not believing.

Ah, so there are personal beliefs that aren't religion and then there are
personal beliefs that are? What a self-rightous, pretentious, egotistical
viewpoint.

Your view is *exactly* why the 1st was put in there.

> Such indecisiveness annoys me, but it accounts for the majority of the
> population.

Actualy not, the vast majority of people believe in God, just not your
particular brand - which after all is what the 1st is all about.

    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: lcs Mixmaster Remailer 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 13:04:45 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: sixdegreees spam
Message-ID: <19980916180002.7081.qmail@nym.alias.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Has any cypherpunk not noticed that all sixdegrees participants have twodegreees (TM)
of separation via the sixdegrees site????




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 20:04:12 +0800
To: "'William H. Geiger III'" 
Subject: RE: It's finally over (was Re: Explanation of Harald Fragner and  cypherpunks)
Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A1928469C@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1


Yes, but you can't expect the masses sign all their email, not yet
anyway, so 
you cannot require cryptographic authentication for mailing lists and 
services subscriptions (esp. for-profit services that would not like to
turn 
away anyone).

That is what you are talking about isn't it?

	Matt

> -----Original Message-----
> From: William H. Geiger III [mailto:whgiii@invweb.net]

> >What we really need is an automated system that could 
> >authorize/deny an address prior to the code/password 
> >being sent that would keep track of distribution list 
> >addresses and such.
> 
> >Perhaps I'll create one myself soon.
> 
> PGP, Digital signatures, CA's, Authentication, ... This *is* a crypto
> related group isn't it?
> 
> How does Thwart, Verisign, or the other CA's handle 
> authentication of an e-mail address in there low level cert

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0
Charset: noconv

iQA/AwUBNgBgOxU5HlNX4dnFEQKQSACghI+z9TK3uXdAbUQMfX2e+ksuk38An3s9
aV7TVzna/+S+cxFXrOmzoxOW
=n91J
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 17:44:45 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Democracy... (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809162310.SAA10167@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: silly@ofb.net
> Subject: Re: Democracy...
> Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 15:27:36 -0700 (PDT)

> > > The congress doesn't pass laws regarding marriages. 
> > Yet.
> Not really true, IMO.  Consider
> 
> http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d104:HR03396:@@@L
> 
> Signed into law in 1996, The Defense of Marriage Act, seeks to define 
> "marriage" as a marriage between one man and one woman, in an attempt to 
> prevent gay people from getting, say, married in Hawaii and then getting 
> the same protection as other married people.
> 
> Unfortunately, it it seems to be in character with the "full faith and 
> credit" clause (Article IV, Section 1) of the U.S. Constitution, which 
> follows "And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the 
> Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved,
> and the Effect thereof."
> 
> The same rationale could be used in turning state-issued driver's 
> licenses into National ID Cards, couldn't it?


Section 1.  Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the 
public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And 
the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, 
Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof. 

 --------------------------------------------------------------------------

The interpetation you offer is bogus. The article says Congress shall pass
what laws are deemed necessary to guarantee that the rights and priviliges
of one state are enjoyed in the others. It does *NOT* say they have a right
to define *what those privileges actualy are*. It has one other effect in
that it prohibits safe haven states. Though it would seem to imply that once
a person changed residence from one state to another and obtained
citizenship in the new state some extradition could be refused...

Example:

Bob is living in Texas and growing pot, it is illegal. In Louisana on the
other hand personal possession is allowed for quantities up to 500 lbs. Bob
decides that he would rather live in Louisiana. Until Bob actualy obtained
Louisiana citizenship he would still be considered a Texas resident and
therefore responsible to the laws of that state. So if Texas were to
extradite prior to Louisiana citizenship Bob would have to be extradited.
However, once Bob became a Louisiana citizen and no longer a Texas citizen
his prior actions wouldn't be extraditable. A sort of get out of jail free
card.

At no point is Congress given the authority to define state law, only that
it must guarantee a representative form of government in each state - not
that they all have to be identical. The 10th would prevent such an extension
of authority.

The reality is the actual law could be incredibly simple:

Every state shall respect and protect the rights and priviliges of any
citizen of another state who is resident within the boundaries of the state.
The state shall further protect those rights even if they are in direct
conflict with the laws of that state.

So if a Texas DPS officer pulled over a car from Louisiana he couldn't
hassle them in regards to the pot they had in the car. Even though it was
illegal for Texas citizens.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Sunder 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 17:28:13 +0800
To: Lars Weitze 
Subject: Re: Encrypting files.
In-Reply-To: <003d01bde1a3$c848e060$7b0000c8@chrome>
Message-ID: <360037C7.341AD349@brainlink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Lars Weitze wrote:
> 
> Does anyone now a program for WindozeNT to store encrypted data on harddisk.
> At the moment i use
> ZIP-Files with a Password on them (I now it is not very secure).
> I am living outside USA and do not want any software with backdoors
> ,"masterkeys" or stuff like that.

http://www.pcdynamics.com/SafeHouse/

-- 

=====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos==============
.+.^.+.|       Sunder       |Prying open my 3rd eye.  So good to see |./|\.
..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were      |/\|/\
<--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run  |\/|\/
../|\..| "A toast to Odin,  |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/.
.+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were....            |.....
======================= http://www.sundernet.com ==========================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 17:55:17 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Democracy... - an extension of speculation
Message-ID: <199809162318.SAA10229@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

[related stuff deleted]

> Every state shall respect and protect the rights and priviliges of any
> citizen of another state who is resident within the boundaries of the state.
> The state shall further protect those rights even if they are in direct
> conflict with the laws of that state.
> 
> So if a Texas DPS officer pulled over a car from Louisiana he couldn't
> hassle them in regards to the pot they had in the car. Even though it was
> illegal for Texas citizens.

One way that Texas could address this issue is that the instant somebody
enters the state of Texas they are instant citizens. The downside is that
they could then vote. This leads to the potential of having persons
spin-loop through states gaining citizenship and voting. So Texas would
probably require 30 days or such, retaining the original intent of the
Constitution and the Amendments.

The founding fathers were strong believes in voting with ones feet in
regards discussion and expression of personal beliefs. The United States are
supposed to be a haven for personal freedom.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 20:45:40 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: RE: Democracy... (fwd)
Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A192846A1@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




> So if a Texas DPS officer pulled over a car from Louisiana he couldn't
> hassle them in regards to the pot they had in the car. Even 
> though it was illegal for Texas citizens.

Wow, you learn something new every day. I had always thought state laws
applied to anyone in the states borders, not solely to those people
declared citizens of that state.

In fact if this were the case, why then would it be necessary for the
recently bill/proposal allowing people with a valid concealed weapons
permit in the jurisdiction in which they work to carry that home
(different jurisdiction). In fact wouldn't he need a permit in his home
jurisdiction and NOT his work jurisdiction? How could he get a concealed
weapons permit in his work jurisdiction if the laws can't apply to him?

Surely there is something amiss.

	Matt




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 11:58:13 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Clinton still doesnt get it
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199809161658.SAA15778@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Mac Norton writes:
> Well, I've been working for a couple of days and spent the weekend before
> that with The Report. I read all of it, including the footnotes, every
> damn one of them, and they're where all the good stuff is, btw.  Given
> that weekend study, it's apparent to me, after reviewing several days
> of posts on this topic on this list, that most of you people can't
> or don't read or have the attention spans of gnats.  
> 
> The perjury case has some serious reasonable doubt problems, the
> abuse of power case is thin, thin, and the executive privilege 
> stuff is there as sheer trade goods to give Congress something
> to throw out.  In legal parlance, it wouldn't pass Rule 11.
> And I don't know who is giving you legal advice, but there's
> no sexual harrassment count in the thing.  Read it, if you can.
> Peferably after your medication.

Mac,
Rather than merely writing to say what bozos all the list members
are (unfairly stereotyping us all - even those not from AOL :-),
why don't you give us the benefit of a little of your expertise?
Why do you believe the perjury case has `reasonable doubt' problems?
{Were I on a jury and if convinced that matters are as Starr
presents them, I would have no problem deciding that Clinton lied
in the deposition at least, where the term `sexual relations' seems
to have been carefully and explicitly defined - even assuming that
he /shouldn't/ be convicted on what seems a clear intent to deceive
the court and later the grand jury on multiple points.}

And the abuse of power case seems thin even to a non-lawyer.  But
where does the `executive privilege stuff' come in?  I don't see
that Starr listed that among his possible grounds for impeachment.

And what about obstruction of justice?  Do you see any merit to those
charges?

Inquiring minds want to know.

 - Frondeur




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 00:04:10 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: DARPA Hires NetAss/TIS TO Develop Secure DNS
In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19980827140054.0dd7abc4@mailer.packet.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980916190027.008d4dc0@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



This is somewhat tacky.  SecureDNS exists, and TIS got export approval
a while back to publish a "bones" version, minus encryption routines.
John Gilmore and his lawyer decided that, since it only does authentication,
not message encryption, it should be ok to publish _with_ the crypto
algorithms, and it's been quietly sitting on his web pages.
Recently the Feds sent him a letter saying "Oh, no, we didn't mean
it was OK to publish/export this encryption-based authentication system
just because the law says you can, so stop it"....
Now they're paying for another version.  Are they going to try something
DSS-based instead of RSA, just so you don't need encryption-capable
crypto with it, or is this going to be another scam?
Or is it just different parts of the Feds not talking to each other?

At 08:57 AM 8/28/98 -0400, Robert Hettinga wrote:
>At 1:57 PM -0400 on 8/27/98, Edupage Editors wrote:
>> DARPA LEADS FIGHT AGAINST DOMAIN-NAME HACKERS
>> The Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) has awarded a $1.4
>> million contract to Network Associates to develop a cryptographic
>> authentication system for the Internet's domain-address system.  The new
>> system will enable the Net's routing points to verify the origin of any
>> given Web page, preventing hackers from corrupting Web page caches or
>> rerouting domain traffic altogether.  It will not, however, prevent hackers
>> from breaking into individual Web servers and changing pages.  "That's not
>> part of this particular approach," says the director of Network Associates'
>> TIS Labs.  The company is working with the Internet Software Consortium,
>> which will distribute the security system to Unix vendors when it becomes
>> commercially available.  Beta versions are expected to be ready in about six
>> months, with a final product on the market in about 18 months.  (TechWeb 26
>> Aug 98)

				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 20:58:36 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Gore, Others on Crypto Policy
In-Reply-To: <199809162314.TAA00055@camel14.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <36006D6A.15DF@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> Not a word about backdoors, TA, DIRT, keyboard snooping, covert
> chip features, compromising emanations, national technical means,
> just assurances that the plan satisfies the interests of the protectors.
>
They sound too satisfied; as if they don't really need domestic controls
anymore. I see the references to Cisco and the promotion of GAK. I
choose "d) All of the above." Have they been hanging around Intel, Sun
and Microsoft lately?

I expect also that some key congresspeople have signed up. The recent
embassy events may have eased their minds about the Constitution. Isn't
this technique referred to as the "We'd have to kill you if we told you
but if only you knew what we know..." routine? We can expect some sort
of suspension-of-the-Bill-of-Rights-if-crypto-is-involved laws to begin
their journey next year. You're free to use any crypto you want to but
if we say 'give us the key' you'll be in jail until you do, 1st, 4th and
5th be damned. Isn't that more or less the case with controlled
substances?

Need a clean machine and an on-line machine now. Copper room. Sneakernet
between the two. 
What is 'TA'?
What is 'National Technical Means'?

Mike




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 18:19:29 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Gore, Others on Crypto Policy
Message-ID: <199809162314.TAA00055@camel14.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



There's a transcript of today's White House press conference on
the new US encryption policy at:

   http://jya.com/vp091698.htm

VP Gore, Justice, FBI, DoD, NSA, CIA, BXA and cooperating
industry were there explaining the way it's supposed to satisfy
all interests of the agencies and a few good businesses if not 
the citizenry. 

Domestic crypto restrictions? Well, take a look at how that was 
punted. And what the FBI is setting up to see that law enforcement 
needs are met, and what DoD is planning for surveilling the globe, 
strong crypto or not.

Not a word about backdoors, TA, DIRT, keyboard snooping, covert 
chip features, compromising emanations, national technical means,
just assurances that the plan satisfies the interests of the protectors.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Dave Brown 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 22:10:42 +0800
To: mark@sixdegrees.com
Subject: Re: A personal response to your email to sixdegrees
In-Reply-To: <35FFD638.DB6920D3@sixdegrees.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19980916190741.00a8eb80@alaska.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



And don't allow them to be listed again.....It'll only piss off more people.
  --Dave

At 10:09 AM 9/16/98 -0700, Declan McCullagh wrote:
>
>Mark, trust me on this: remove all five cypherpunks addresses from your
>lists.
>
>Really.
>
>-Declan
>
>
>On Wed, 16 Sep 1998, Mark Salamon wrote:
>
>> (I was not sure which email address to send this to, as the return
>> address was:  nobody@replay.com.  I also do not know who to address this
>> email to.)
>> 
>> I am the WHOIS contact at sixdegrees you sent this email to, and since
>> this is a peronal reply to your email, it is certainly NOT spam and I
>> would appreciate it if you would take the time to read it and respond.
>> 
>> I am very confused by your email.  I understand that you do not wish to
>> receive emails from sixdegrees, but it is very easy to solve this
>> problem.  If anyone ever sponsors you for sixdegrees, simply reply to
>> the email and put the word "remove" in the header.  (This is pretty
>> standard stuff across the Internet, as I am sure you are aware.)  If
>> that occurs, in the future we will not send emails to the email address
>> that received the original email from us.
>> 
>> Unfortunately, if you have many email addresses (as it appears, from the
>> bottom of your email), the only way for us to remove each is to have a
>> sixdegrees email go to each of these email address accounts and then
>> received a "remove" reply to each of these emails.  (We have in our
>> records references to 5 different cypherpunks email addresses: 
>> @toad.com, @cypherpunks.net, @cypherpunks.org, @algebra.com, and
>> @ssz.com.  If you wish for us not to contact you again at any of these
>> addresses, we will need to confirm that you in fact control these email
>> addresses.  The best way for you to do this is to send an email to
>> cancel@sixdegrees.com, and ask to have these email addresses removed. 
>> We will then send a reply to each email address you listed, asking you
>> to confirm that you in fact control those email addresses and wish to
>> have them removed.  Once we receive your confirmation, we will adjust
>> our records so you receive no further emails from us to those email
>> addresses.  For example, if I receive an email from you to this email, I
>> will assume that you control the @toad.com email address and I will have
>> that removed.)
>> 
>> What is confusing to me is that the email you received from sixdegrees
>> (with the subject:  Harald Fragner) is one that would be sent ONLY to a
>> CONFIRMED sixdegrees user.  That means that once upon a time, whether
>> you remember or not, you joined sixdegrees (as have over 1,000,000
>> people to date).  It also appears that you listed Harald Fragner as a
>> contact, and he recently denied his sixdegrees relationship with you. 
>> Thus, it is not surprising that you would receive emails from
>> sixdegrees, as you had registered for our service at one time.  (I
>> assume that the email address you used to register with sixdegrees was
>> the @toad.com one.)
>> 
>> sixdegrees is purely a voluntary service, and if you do not want to
>> participate in it, then we are happy to accommodate you.  We do not send
>> out spam and take great efforts to ensure that no one receives unwanted
>> email from us.
>> 
>> I look forward to receiving your reply to this email.
>> 
>> Mark Salamon
>> General Counsel
>> MacroView Communications Corp.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Anonymous wrote:
>> > 
>> > On Tue, 15 Sep 1998, the shitheads at sixdegrees spammed the Cypherpunks
>> > list with:
>> > 
>> > > Just a quick update from sixdegrees(tm). Unfortunately Harald
>> > > Fragner (harald@fragner.net) asked not to be listed as your
>> > > contact with sixdegrees.
>> > >
>> > > We also wanted to make sure you were aware that you currently
>> > > have no other confirmed contacts, so it will be hard for you to
>> > > have a productive sixdegrees experience. As you probably know,
>> > > without any confirmed contacts, you won't get any results from our
>> > > networking searches.
>> > >
>> > > So, we just wanted to recommend that you head over to
>> > > http://www.sixdegrees.com , log-in, and go to MY CONTACTS
>> > > to list additional relationships.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > ====================================================================
>> > > PLEASE NOTE: All replies to this address are processed by a computer.
>> > > If you have any problems, questions or requests send an e-mail to
>> > > issues@sixdegrees.com and someone will get back to you as soon as
>> > > possible.
>> > > ====================================================================
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > E.DB.BRESP.3
>> > >
>> > >
>> > 
>> > Just a quick update from the Cypherpunks(tm). Fortunately, we don't want
>> > anything to do with your worthless, pathetic, spamming selves. We don't
>> > want to be your friends and, in fact, we'd prefer it if you would crawl
>> > under a rock and die because that seems to be the only way you'll stop
>> > spamming our mailing list.
>> > 
>> > We also wanted to make sure that you were aware that you currently
have no
>> > confirmed redeeming qualities, so it will be hard for you to be taken
>> > seriously by those of us who do have a clue. As you probably know,
without
>> > any redeeming qualities, you will get lots of results every time you send
>> > out a batch of spam.
>> > 
>> > So, we just wanted to recommend that you head on over to your bathtub
with
>> > the rest of your coworkers, fill it up, jump in together, and then
drop in
>> > a large, plugged-in, turned-on electric heater into the water and remain
>> > in until you stop twitching and cardiac activity ceases.
>> > 
>> > C.LU.EFULS.2000
>> > 
>> > You people don't give a fuck how much excrement you shoot all over the
>> > net, so long as you let people know of your pathetic, worthless,
>> > disgusting service. If you can get somebody's mailing list to relay your
>> > shit for you, so much the better, because then you don't have to
>> > personally send it.
>> > 
>> > Sorry, but I've had it with Sixdegrees. I've personally told you idiots
>> > very nicely what the Cypherpunks list is, and asked you nicely to stop
>> > spamming it. I've personally told you a method to keep people from
>> > submitting these addresses to your worthless spam haven. Other people
have
>> > done the same thing. You haven't fixed it, indicating that you don't
care.
>> > I'm no longer asking nicely.
>> > 
>> > A copy is being sent to your technical contact, on the assumption that
>> > maybe he is a little more responsible, though I doubt it.
>> > 
>> > -- The Cypherpunks List > > cypherpunks@*.cyberpass.net, cypherpunks@*.ssz.com,
>> > cypherpunks@algebra.com, and others>
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>
>




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 18:24:33 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Announcement: Mac-Crypto Conference Oct 6-9, 1998
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


From: vinnie@vmeng.com
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 15:47:54 -0700
Subject: Announcement: Mac-Crypto Conference Oct 6-9, 1998
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Priority: 3
To: undisclosed-recipients:;

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1





         The Membership of the Mac-Crypto List invites you to

                      The Third Annual
                          Macintosh
                Cryptography and Internet Commerce
                 Software Development Workshop


                      October 6 - 9th, 1998
                      Town Hall Auditorium
                        Apple R&D Campus
                4 Infinite Loop, Cupertino, CA, USA

            Keeping with tradition, this is still free workshop,
            but we'd *really* like it if you register (see below).

We are once again hosting our annual workshop,  where you are sure to
find the latest and greatest information about whats going on in the
Macintosh cryptography world.

A lot has happened in the past year in the world of the Internet
and Cryptography, so this year, thanks to popular demand we have
allocated more time and a larger hall for developers to talk about
what they are working on.


PRELIMINARY WORKSHOP TOPICS: (more to come)

  Introductions and Overviews:

    Intro to Crypto Systems

    Export Controls & Crypto software

    Crypto Opportunities for the Mac

   Tech Stuff:

     AppleShare Authentication Architecture

     PGPticket - A Secure Authorization Protocol

     The AltaVec PowerPC Architecture

     Apple Security Architecture Overview.

     Apple Keychain / Subwoofer update

     OpenPGP & the IETF standards process

     Overview of Crypto API's and Toolkits


  Applications of Cryptography

     RC5 cracking effort & the Mac

     PGPUAM - Appleshare Public Key Authentication

     Graphically displaying the Web of Trust

     Anonymous Communications and the Macintosh


  Open Sessions:

    As requested we scheduled lots of time for developer demos and
open
    discussions plus the much asked for and a PGP Keysigning party ...
    and plenty of time for developers to network with each other and
    Apple.

We have also left time open for a few last-minute speakers. If you
would like to present a paper or give a talk, please contact
Vinnie Moscaritolo at vinnie@apple.com

To find out more about previous Mac-Crypto workshops check out
our webpage at  http://www.vmeng.com/mc/

REGISTRATION:

 To register, complete the following form, and email it to
 mac-crypto-conference@vmeng.com with the subject line REGISTRATION

 Registration is limited to 300 attendees, so be sure to register
 early.

_______________________________________________________________________

* Name:

* Email Address:

Title:

Affliation:

Address:

Telephone:

Comments:

_______________________________________________________________________


Local Hotels:

Cupertino Inn, 800-222-4828
        Pretty much Across the Street.

Cupertino Courtyard by Marriot, 800-321-2211
        5 Minute Drive

Inn at Saratoga
        408-867-5020
        About 3 Miles

See you in Cupertino on October 6 - 9th!

Vinnie Moscaritolo
Apple World Wide Developer Support
 DSS/DH:   3F903472C3AF622D5D918D9BD8B100090B3EF042





-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP 6.0

iQA/AwUBNgA9BR16LYZvFyoKEQKYAACfXK7uA40tX1DRy44zTaqkesDs5TkAoKS3
Fx/5lcgO9b6Wqfsibdpc1MRz
=c+ZP
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 12:23:52 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199809161725.TAA17834@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



The magic word is totocus.

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 20:40:18 +0800
To: underwood@whitman.edu
Subject: bill soper & brains
Message-ID: <36006423.7B29@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Wednesday 9/16/98 6:56 PM

Underwood 

More than 40 years ago Armand [bunky] Larive, I, and others took
history of philosphy from bill soper.

Laivre is an an episcopal priest in Pullman now.
http://www.web-x.com/wazzu.net/restaurantguide/index.html

I don't see sopher listed in the faculty directory.
http://people.whitman.edu/faculty_homepages.html

Sopher invited an attractive articulate lady from the B'Hai religion
to lecture our class.

The LADY put forth an argument on why we should all believe.

In the next lecture Soper, as a philospher should, went into 
every detail why her arguments were falacious.

           The contemplation of things as they are,       
                without error or confusion,       
            without substitution or imposture,       
   is in itself a nobler thing than a whole harvest of invention.       
       
   Francis Bacon        


I think Lairve was present at the lecture and analysis.

I PROFITED FROM YOUR differential equations AND 
elementary mathematics from an advanced standpoint courses.
But this has been about 40 years ago.

I still have the books used in your classes.

And my education at Whitman.

Then, too, I profited from Zirakzaheh's higher alegraba course in the 
summer of 1958 at U Colorado.

Let's hope this gets settled before someone gets NUKED.

We know these guys. http://www.wpiran.org/  http://www.taliban.com/
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/impact/namir/namirm.html

And we SPECULATE that they are NOT HAPPY ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED.

bill
----
Subject: 
        Politicians, lawyers, and crypto
  Date: 
        Wed, 16 Sep 1998 16:50:15 -0600
  From: 
        bill payne 
    To: 
        john_ashcroft@ashcroft.senate.gov


Subject: 
        Politicians, lawyers, and crypto
  Date: 
        Wed, 16 Sep 1998 16:48:32 -0600
  From: 
        bill payne 
    To: 
        senator_leahy@leahy.senate.gov, conrad_burns@burns.senate.gov


Subject: 
        Politicians, lawyers, and crypto
  Date: 
        Wed, 16 Sep 1998 16:46:11 -0600
  From: 
        bill payne 
    To: 
        john_kerry@kerry.senate.gov


Subject: 
        Politicians, lawyers, and crypto
  Date: 
        Wed, 16 Sep 1998 16:44:26 -0600
  From: 
        bill payne 
    To: 
        info@kyl.senate.gov
    CC: 
        senator_mccain@mccain.senate.gov, grassley
, cynthia mckinney



Kyl

I am reading http://www.cdt.org/crypto/jonkyl.html

Please help get this MESS settled.

bill

----

Subject: 
        crypto nonsense
  Date: 
        Wed, 16 Sep 1998 16:38:25 -0600
  From: 
        bill payne 
    To: 
        abd@cdt.org, info@cdt.org, webmaster@cdt.org


CHRYSLER AWARD NOMINATION STATEMENT
                                9/16/9812:50 PM
                        
American forefathers drafted the Constitution and laws of our country
shortly after having suffered injustice.   
Fresh in their minds were strategies used by their oppressors.  Writers
of the Constitution and laws anticipated 
ways to subvert our system.  Therefore, our forefathers designed
safeguards into our legal system to prevent 
future injustice.

But these safeguards DON'T appear to be working today.

Morales and Payne designed a strategy using the National Security Agency
[NSA], Sandia National 
Laboratories, the US Federal Court System, and publication on Internet
to illustrate how the US government 
has deteriorated.

Arthur Morales WAS a supervisor at Sandia Labs in 1991.  Morales and
Manuel Garcia organized a class 
action lawsuit on behalf of Hispanics against Sandia.

Sandia settled Morales' and Garcia's lawsuit.  Department of Energy
acknowledged from Freedom of 
Information Act  [FOIA] requests that as of  December 31, 1995 Morales
cost Sandia $567,137 in legal fees.

Sandia retaliated against Morales.  Morales sued Sandia in New Mexico
District Court.  Morales lost.

William Payne wrote a technical report describing 'deficiencies'  in
NSA's cryptographic algorithms 
http://jya.com/da/whpda.htm.  Sandia transferred Payne to break
electronics locks for the Federal Bureau of 
Invesitgation [FBI].  Payne refused to do illegal work. 
http://www.jya.com/whp1.htm.

Payne sued Sandia in Federal Court.  Payne lost and court records were
sealed.

FBI agent Bernardo Perez  led a class action lawsuit against the FBI for
race discrimination against Hispanic
FBI agents.  http://www.usdoj.gov/osg/1995/w951482w.txt

Perez won.  Perez was assigned agent-in-charge of the FBI in Albuquerque
for settlement.  But Perez lost
money.

Morales and Payne learned that the FBI extorted an inexpensive
settlement from Perez by telling Perez that the FBI was GUARANTEED to
win on appeal in Federal Circuit.

With Perez' and others knowledge of circuit courts, Morales and Payne
appealed their respective cases pro se 
to the Tenth Circuit.  

In Payne's case Sandia failed to submit its Brief of the Appellees on
time.  Then falsified its certificate of 
service when Payne filed to remand.

In Morales' case Sandia submitted a deficient Brief of the Appellees
which was returned but failed to serve 
Morales with its  brief.

Payne and Morales both won at the Tenth Circuit on technicalities.  But
judges awarded the wins to Sandia.

All attempts by Morales and Payne to get copies of the docket for their
respective Tenth Circuit cases failed.

Therefore, Morales and Payne hatched a plan to get the dockets and
expose government misconduct.  

Payne previously made FOIA requests to NSA for  copies of messages and
translations given to 
Iraq during the Iraq/Iran war, copies of Libyan messages intercepted by
NSA, and NSA cryptographic
algorithms Payne thought contained deficiencies.

Morales and Payne sued NSA pro se for the documents. Lawsuit progress
was broadcast on Internet through e-
mail and

     http://www.aci.net/kalliste/speccoll.htm
     http://jya.com/whpfiles.htm

And Payne wrote

 Black and White Test of Cryptographic Algorithms

criticizing the US government's crypto contest.  http://zolatimes.com.

Morales and Payne FINALLY got copies of dockets from their respective
cases from the Tenth
Circuit using Internet as an innovative tool. 
/\/\/\/\/\/\

Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 11:08:39 -0700
From: The Electronic Zola   
To: biru
Subject: Re: Interested LATER?


Hi Biru,

> In
> 
>  Non-random Cryptographic Keys Defeat Key Escrow
> 
> I will introduce, by example, readers to deBruijn diagrams and
> statistical tests.
> Both will be related to random number and pseudorandom number
> generation.

Sounds good to us.  

We know mathematics scares our readers.  But some of our 
editors like it just fine.  And we don't care much for
the Great Satan around here.

Cheers,

Z

---
I am not reading e-mail.



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 12:28:52 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199809161729.TAA18190@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Feb. 1, 1996, the US House of Representatives
voted to pass the Telecommunications Reform Act. 

This Act included the Communications Decency Act,
which sought to criminalize posting to the
Internet any material deemed indecent and patently
offensive, with no exception for socially
redeeming material. 

On Sept. 11, 1998, the US House of Representatives
voted to release the Referral of Independent
Counsel Starr on the Internet. 

365 individuals were Members of Congress during
these two votes, 196 Republicans and 169
Democrats. 

Of that total, 284, or 77.6%, voted Aye both
times. 

185 of the Republicans, or 94.4%, voted Aye both
times. 

96 of the Democrats, or 56.8%, voted Aye both
times. 

Had the Communications Decency Act withstood
judicial review (which it did not), posting the
Starr report to the Internet arguably would have
subjected the posters to fines of $250,000 and 5
years in prison. 

The question of who voted for both the CDA and the
release of the Starr report is not cut-and-dried,
because Congress did not record a roll-call vote
for the CDA in isolation, but only for its vehicle
the Telecommunications Reform Act. Also, the vote
Friday to post the Starr report was primarily a
vote to start up impeachment machinery. 

Nevertheless, if accountability to the voters
means anything in this democracy, the Congress
members who voted "Aye" on both February 1, 1996
and September 11, 1998 ought to come in for a bit
of uncomfortable public exposure. 


http://www.tbtf.com/resource/hypocrites.html




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jan Dobrucki 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 12:28:50 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: A personal response to your email to sixdegrees
In-Reply-To: <199809152257.AAA05080@replay.com>
Message-ID: <35FFF6A5.30B15074@kki.net.pl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Well... so far this is the longest response from sixdegrees I've read
on cypherpunks... those guys are such numbskulls... can't they just go
to the cypherpunk homepage, at:
ftp://ftp.csua.berkeley.edu/pub/cypherpunks/Home.html 
get the info to get themselves of the cypherpunk mailing list...?

And about folks on the list... seems awfully quite...


Ende
Jan D.

P.S. :I remember this from a comic film... robo something...
"Information is Ammunition"
Mark Salamon wrote:
> 
> (I was not sure which email address to send this to, as the return
> address was:  nobody@replay.com.  I also do not know who to address this
> email to.)
> 
> I am the WHOIS contact at sixdegrees you sent this email to, and since
> this is a peronal reply to your email, it is certainly NOT spam and I
> would appreciate it if you would take the time to read it and respond.
> 
> I am very confused by your email.  I understand that you do not wish to
> receive emails from sixdegrees, but it is very easy to solve this
> problem.  If anyone ever sponsors you for sixdegrees, simply reply to
> the email and put the word "remove" in the header.  (This is pretty
> standard stuff across the Internet, as I am sure you are aware.)  If
> that occurs, in the future we will not send emails to the email address
> that received the original email from us.

(remainder of the nonsense I don't care to read is cut)




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Edwin E. Smith" 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 19:01:47 +0800
To: Elizabeth Sandage 
Subject: Re: Voices
In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19980915225715.007afe50@mailhost.IntNet.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980916195534.008081d0@mailhost.IntNet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Thank you for your thoughtful and honest response.

I am interested in the two meanings of "Just". When you say you have 
blind spots do you mean that you delude yourself in some ways? I 
would say this is true of all of us, however I would say that by 
recognizing that you do have shortcomings you are making an effort at 
improving. I also have many shortcomings and I am trying to improve.

I tend to be rather intolerant of stupid people who think they are so 
superior and that their way is the only way people should live. They 
will never hesitate to lecture others about their concept of 
morality, which usually involves the use of weapons and stealing, for 
the greater good. Such is the morality of the current occupant of the 
Whitehouse.

I tend to lecture people about the value of freedom and peaceful 
persuasion to get what I want. It is a benifit to many to trade 
peacefully rather than take what we want by force. This is my concept 
of what is just. It is my concept of the "Greater Good." I carry this 
to the extreme that if it comes down to the issue of if my survival 
can only be secured by the use of force to steal from others thereby 
taking their life or any part of it, then it is right that I should 
die.

I don't have any children so I cannot say what I would do if it came 
down to the life of one of mine. I would be very much more tolerant 
of a mother who was put in this situation.

I once, long ago had it explained to me the difference between 
charity and welfare. Don Tarbell explained that if he were to see a 
person who was starving. He would help them in whatever way he wanted 
short of stealing. Welfare on the other hand steals from people who 
might have contributed voluntarily but then resent being forced to 
help. Welfare is unjust.

I have recently began reading what promises to be a very good book. 
It is "People of the Lie" by M. Scott Peck M. D. It is about human 
evil. One of the responses to a quote from the book which I posted 
was "Ask the antelope if he thinks the lion is evil, perhaps you have 
this view because no animal considers you a tasty morsel."

This is non-responsive in that we are talking about Human Evil and 
BTW there are many animals which would consider me much more than a 
"tasty morsel." We have very large aligators here in Florida which 
often eat small children, however very few people consider them evil 
by human standards, they are simply doing what they do.

The difference is that humans have, by deciding to be civil toward 
one another, decided that they will not eat each other and eat lower 
forms of life instead. Perhaps we should ask cows if they think WE 
are evil.

As to freedom of speech. I believe that I have much to gain by 
listening to what others have to say. This is a rational attitude I 
think because communication is what separates us from the lower forms 
of animals. It allows us, with our short lifespans to capitalize on 
creative ideas which our larger brains made possible. Without 
communication those ideas would die with us. We would be very little 
better off than chimpanzies. Perhaps able to fashion tools but unable 
to show others how to do the same. Each creation would have to be 
repeated in each individual.

But because I can communicate that idea which I have created to 
another, even though I didn't act upon it, the idea will outlive me 
and be a benifit to many. The wheel is an invention so old that it is 
impossible to discover when it was first used. But although it was 
surely created over and over many times it's spread was accomplished 
many times faster because the concept could be drawn on the wall of a 
cave with another very useful invention. This is the vaule of 
communication and "free speech."

Speech and the written word and now the internet. Not many realize 
that the internet is the most significant advance in technological 
evolution to have happened in a very long time. Why do I say this? 
Because it has enhanced communication manyfold. Radio and TV are one-
way only and are inferior to the printing press so don''t represent 
much of an advance. Any attempt by governments to curtail this 
enhanced speech is, in my opinion evil.

Edwin


At 05:10 PM 9/16/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Am I Just?  That is a difficult question to answer because "just" 
has two
>distinctly different definitions, and several nuances in the one 
definition
>which your use of the word implies.  I am reasonable--or try to be--
but I
>do have my blind spots.  Also, I am "just" in that I recognized in 
your
>statement about "voices" the essence of a healthy belief in freedom 
of
>speech with your strongly stated recognition that it is an 
endangered
>freedom when access to the means of distributing speech is limited 
to a
>chosen few who represent a very narrow spectrum of ideas.  The 
Internet has
>provided a marvelous solution to that problem.  It will be 
fascinating to
>observe how this freedom of access to the means of distributing 
speech on a
>global scale will affect the cultures of all nations whose citizens 
are
>allowed to get "on line" and participate in the exchange of ideas 
and the
>discussion that ensues.
>
>Elizabeth
>>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0
Charset: noconv

iQA/AwUBNgBP9UmNf6b56PAtEQL0PQCfdySiIPGgD0YcIhsJofO9MEDS06UAoJK9
z3c+1YDfVnq/RF9L2O1d01ei
=3hNv
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Lars Weitze" 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 13:03:23 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks" 
Subject: Encrypting files.
Message-ID: <003d01bde1a3$c848e060$7b0000c8@chrome>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Does anyone now a program for WindozeNT to store encrypted data on harddisk.
At the moment i use
ZIP-Files with a Password on them (I now it is not very secure).
I am living outside USA and do not want any software with backdoors
,"masterkeys" or stuff like that.

Thanks
ChromeDemon

--
"One dead is a tragedy, thousand deads are a statistic."
        Karl Marx

e-mail: chromedemon@netcologne.de
http://chromedemon.home.pages.de
http://www.netcologne.de/~nc-weitzela2




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 12:59:49 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Clinton still doesnt get it
Message-ID: <199809161800.UAA20746@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Frondeur writes:

> Why do you believe the perjury case has `reasonable doubt' problems?

Watch TV and learn the answer.  It's only perjury if it's material,
and the judge said it wasn't material.

> And the abuse of power case seems thin even to a non-lawyer.  But
> where does the `executive privilege stuff' come in?  I don't see
> that Starr listed that among his possible grounds for impeachment.

Among the grounds Starr listed was Clinton's attempt to delay the
investigation by raising many legal objections. He claimed privilege,
for example, with respect to Secret Service testimony.  Most of his
efforts were ultimately overruled.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "James A. Donald" 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 22:34:33 +0800
To: "Lynne L. Harrison" 
Message-ID: <199809170333.UAA10220@proxy3.ba.best.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



    --
At 06:21 AM 9/15/98 -0700, James A. Donald wrote:
> > According to the law applied to normal people, Monica was
> > the victim.

At 06:15 PM 9/15/98 -0400, Lynne L. Harrison wrote:
> What law?  This was consensual sex. 

Female subordinates have no power to consent under current
civil law, any more than children do.

If a boss has sex with a secretary, he is liable,
irrespective of her consent.

> > Also according to the law applied to normal people, 
> > Clinton was required to spill his guts about all of his
> > sex life, because some woman sued him, whereas the woman
> > suing was completely protected against any questions
> > concerning her sex life.

> Clinton, like anyone else, is required to tell the truth
> when being deposed or testifying in front of a Grand Jury,
> i.e., making any statement under oath.

But there are limits as to what questions he can ask his
accusers, and until recently there were limits as to what
question his accusers could ask him.  The limits have been
abolished for one side, and tightened for the other side.

These laws are flagrantly unjust, but the Democrats
introduced them and applied them.  Feminists supported and
continue to support Clinton precisely because he supported
and supports laws that he flagrantly broke.  If these laws
are to be repealed for politicians, they should be repealed
for normal people as well.

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     QB9Z4ortNHgkN9yG7H79cPWyP8aJ14vaNHIzH2mw
     4e/ezaLT9rXZibxZ66vyTVK4/ZHHPiLy3k+K5WHn3
-----------------------------------------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because 
of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this 
right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.


http://www.jim.com/jamesd/      James A. Donald




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Technical Incursion Countermeasures 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 07:38:31 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: CFP: The Insider December 1998 edition v2
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980916202647.009069d0@localhost>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



(note: Due to the unexpected load on our systems - anyone who subscribed or
sent us mail between the 9th of Sept and the 12 of September should
consider doing it again - our server load peaked at approx 30 times the
normal daily load - so our mailbox filled. We now have expanded our mailbox
to 5M - hopefully this will be enough)

Call for Papers

The Insider - December 1998 edition

The Insider (http://www.ticm.com/info/insider/index.html) has been in
publication since November 1997. Since then it has gone trough a number of
changes - all for the better :}. The latest change is to move from a
newletter containing just the musing of its editor to a "learned journal".
Yes, the papers will be refereed and the editorial board has some weight in
the IT security world.

Our editorial committee now includes: Andy Smith, Dr John Tongren and Dr
Joseph Williams


On that note this is the second Call for papers.

We are looking for papers on Information Technology Security and fitting
within the following broad areas: Audit, Design and Maintenance of IT
Security.

The Papers can be from 1000 to 2500 words. We may accept papers of down to
600 words or up to 5000 words but they will have to be of the utmost quality. 

For more information see http://www.ticm.com/info/insider/current.html 

Yours 

Bret Watson - Editor
Technical Incursion Countermeasures 
consulting@TICM.COM                      http://www.ticm.com/
ph: (+61)(041) 4411 149(UTC+8 hrs)      fax: (+61)(08) 9454 6042

The Insider - a e'zine on Computer security - August Edition out
http://www.ticm.com/info/insider/index.html




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Alex de Joode 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 13:32:26 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: 128 bit or 40 bit?
Message-ID: <199809161832.UAA23457@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



In article <67ee9e3cc8499f9d72a11a2df56c48fe@anonymous> you wrote:


: Being outside North America, I have an "export" version of 
: Internet Explorer/Netscape Navigator. These offer 40 bit 
: encryption. (40 bit RC4, I understand).


: My financial institution has a 128 bit Verisign certificate.
: To my surprise, they claim this offers 128 bit encryption to /me/.
: [in transactions to https://secure.mybank.com.xx]

: I thought my 40 bit client limited the security to 40 bits.
: Who is right? Please explain.

All browsers have the 128 bits encryption inthem, but in the
non-US version it can only enabled by a 'special cert'. Banks
are the only institutions that are currently allowed to recieve
such an cert.

This is also why fortify.net works as it does, anyways,
we also offer 128 bit versions of the popular browsers *g*
--
Alex de Joode | International CryptoRunners | http://www.replay.com
         'A little paranoia can longer your life'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Lazlo Toth 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 20:10:32 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Caligula, My Father, Bill Clinton
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I think people are finding it much easier to relate to your Mr. Clinton
lately...

-Lazlo

-------------
Caligula, My Father, Bill Clinton
by Sam Lipsyte
>From Nerve Magazine
http://www.nervemag.com/Lipsyte/caligula/

>...
>     Of course you want her breasts first. I want her breasts first. I
>want her in the blue-black dress and I want her breasts first.
>     I am the President. I've been doing this shit all my life, and I want
>her breasts first. I can tell what they will look like already, round and
>full and pale with a tiny beautiful vein  like a quiet river running to
>her heart. I want to squeeze and suckle. That's all I ever really ever
>ever wanted. The suits, the speeches, sure, the airplane, sure, but those
>fuckers are always after me for more and more of me and this is all I ever
>wanted.
>     I want her ass and her belly and her hair and her lips.
>     Those fuckers.
>...




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Rabid Wombat 
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 16:42:08 +0800
To: "I.A. Eaglemail" 
Subject: Re: Hacker D00D
In-Reply-To: <19980918194942.2300.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





On Fri, 18 Sep 1998, I.A. Eaglemail wrote:

> >You've been listed again. Looks like this whole sixdegrees 
> >thing is working. Your networking potential is growing by the 
> >second. Hacker D00D listed you as "Mother."
> >
> >Please let us know if you are in fact Hacker's Mother:

Well, they got it half right ...




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 23:13:25 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: SNET: U.S. Patent Programmable subcutaneous visible implant
Message-ID: <199809170414.VAA28118@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: jeremy.compton@stonebow.otago.ac.nz (Jeremy Compton)
Subject: SNET: U.S. Patent Programmable subcutaneous visible implant
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 01:35:49 +1200
To: snetnews@world.std.com


->  SNETNEWS  Mailing List

United States Patent

5,638,832
 Singer, et. al.

Jun. 17, 1997


Programmable subcutaneous visible implant

                                              Abstract

A subcutaneous implant for displaying various re-programmable information
or decorative patterns beneath the surface of the skin of a person or an
animal. A biologically inert subcutaneous implant is constructed of a
flexible material so as to conform to the skin's surface. The subcutaneous
implant includes a battery for providing power to the implant. The
subcutaneous implant also includes a receiver for receiving programming
information from a user, and a display for displaying the programming
information through the skin.


 Inventors:
           Singer; Andrew J. (Palo Alto, CA); White; Sean (San Francisco, CA).
 Assignee:
           Interval Research Corporation (Palo Alto, CA).
 Appl. No.:
           477,096
 Filed:
           Jun. 7, 1995

 Intl. Cl. :

A61B 19/00
 Current U.S. Cl.:

128/899
 Field of Search:

128/897-899, 654


                                 References Cited | [Referenced By]

                                        U.S. Patent Documents
      4,233,964
                             Nov., 1980
                                                 Jefferts et al.

128/899
      5,041,826
                             Aug., 1991
                                                 Milheiser
      5,074,318
                             Dec., 1991
                                                 Campbell et al.
      5,205,286
                             Apr., 1993
                                                 Soukup et al.

128/899
      5,322,034
                             Jun., 1994
                                                 Willham et al.
      5,324,940
                             Jun., 1994
                                                 Ekstrom
      5,482,008
                             Jan., 1996
                                                 Stafford et al.

128/899


Primary Examiner: Cohen; Lee S.
Assistant Examiner: Lacyk; John P.
Attorney, Agent or Firm: Brooks & Kushman
                                   19 Claims, 4 Drawing Figures



-> Send "subscribe   snetnews " to majordomo@world.std.com
->  Posted by: jeremy.compton@stonebow.otago.ac.nz (Jeremy Compton)




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 23:13:30 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: SNET: U S Patent: Identification system
Message-ID: <199809170415.VAA28178@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: jeremy.compton@stonebow.otago.ac.nz (Jeremy Compton)
Subject: SNET: U S Patent: Identification system
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 01:35:51 +1200
To: snetnews@world.std.com


->  SNETNEWS  Mailing List

United States Patent

5,041,826
 Milheiser

Aug. 20, 1991


Identification system

                                              Abstract

A passive integrated transponder (PIT) is attached to or embedded in an
item to be identified. It is excited via an inductive coupling from an
interrogator. The PIT responds to the interrogator via the inductive
coupling with a signal constituting a
stream of data unique to the identified item. The signal is in the form of
two different frequencies, a shift from one frequency to the second during
a bit cell representing a data "one", and a shift from the second frequency
to the first frequency representing a data "zero". The responsive signal is
then detected and processed for utilization in a data storage or display
device.


 Inventors:
           Milheiser; Thomas A. (Littleton, CO).
 Assignee:
           Destron/IDI Inc. (Boulder, CO).
 Appl. No.:
           481,833
 Filed:
           Feb. 16, 1990


                                   Related U.S. Application Data
    Division of Ser No. 388,761, Aug. 2, 1989, abandoned, which is a
continuation of Ser. No. 165,310, Mar. 8,
    1988, abandoned, which is a division of Ser. No 814,492, Dec. 30, 1985,
Pat. No. 4,730,188, which is a
    continuation-in-part of Ser. No. 580,401, Feb. 15, 1984, abandoned.

 Intl. Cl. :

H04Q 1/00
 Current U.S. Cl.:
                                                               340/825.54;
340/825.69; 375/272; 455/41
 Field of Search:
                                                  340/825.54, 825.55,
825.69, 825.72, 825.34, 825.94, 572;
                                                         455/118, 41;
375/45, 62, 78, 81, 52; 370/53, 112


                                 References Cited | [Referenced By]

                                        U.S. Patent Documents
      3,109,143
                             Oct., 1963
                                                  Gluth

375/81
      3,510,779
                             May, 1970
                                                  Klapper

375/81
      3,689,885
                             Sept., 1972
                                                  Kaplan et al.

455/41 X
      4,287,596
                             Sept., 1981
                                                  Chari

375/52 X
      4,313,033
                             Jan., 1982
                                                  Walker et al.

370/112 X
      4,368,439
                             Jan., 1983
                                                  Shibuya et al.

375/62 X
      4,388,730
                             Jun., 1983
                                                  Nash et al.

375/81 X


Primary Examiner: Weldon; Ulysses
Attorney, Agent or Firm: Sirr; Francis A., Hancock; Earl C.
                                   14 Claims, 8 Drawing Figures

                                              [USPTO]



-> Send "subscribe   snetnews " to majordomo@world.std.com
->  Posted by: jeremy.compton@stonebow.otago.ac.nz (Jeremy Compton)




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 23:18:07 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: SNET: Satellite offers spy pictures by credit card
Message-ID: <199809170415.VAA28196@netcom13.netcom.com>
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From: jeremy.compton@stonebow.otago.ac.nz (Jeremy Compton)
Subject: SNET: Satellite offers spy pictures by credit card
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 03:06:46 +1200
To: snetnews@world.std.com


->  SNETNEWS  Mailing List

http://www.mcs.net/~lpyleprn/jpfo.html <- Looks like a noble effort
[jpfo@prn-bbs.org] JFPO Jews for Preservation of Firearms Ownership

"The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer."

--Henry Kissinger

TODAY's COMMUNIQUE
==================

Satellite offers spy pictures by credit card
============================================

First a little on the handy...

BIG BROTHER WATCHING

Has anybody thought about the fact why Goverments are pushing the
GSM-Handys so much. More and more people will change over to the "handy"
Handy, not thinking that this system is utterly unsafe.

There are various A5 chips build-in which supposed to encrypt the
conversation between the Handy and the nearby station. This encryption - if
there is any at all - can be switched off and is a 4 Bit Kode which can be
cracked in Minutes.

But the biggest danger was exposed by the (Swiss) Berner Sonntagszeitung
which wrote that the Swisscom - which really belongs to AT&T or another
US-company (a subsidiary of the CIA/MOSSAD) is collecting data from every
GSM-User and the movement of the owner for at least 6 Months
(Bewegungs-Profile). The owner of a GSM Handy can be located with the GPS
(General Position System and Sattelites) within few Meters, no matter if he
uses the Phones or not.

The complete German Text (article) you will find on the Ostara-Website
http://www.ostara.org/autor/gsm.txt

The question is now what can we do, because the same "big brother" things
are going on everywhere and nobody knows who is exchanging data with whom.
Not only the owner of the GSM will be recorded, but also the telefon Nr. of
the receiver. And this warning goes even more for people using ISDN which
is no problem to hack into.

The Story of the LOTUS-NOTES where the US-Goverment holds the decryption
key is well known by now - hopefully.


If you have to use a Handy, use a anonymous Credit-card Handy where you can
buy the cards in any communication shop with cash (no bankcredit-card).


30.12.1997

fwd from:

Satellite offers spy pictures by credit card By Robert Uhlig, Technology
Correspondent Electronic Telegraph UK.


THE first civilian spy satellite will soon allow anyone with a credit card
to peek into a neighbour's garden or a highly secret military base for as
little as engl. Pounds 200,-

EarlyBird 1, the first commercial spacecraft to use recently declassified
spy technology, was successfully launched from a military base in eastern
Russia last week, ending the 40-year monopoly of the world's most advanced
military and intelligence services on gathering high-resolution pictures
from space.

EarthWatch Inc, the satellite's owner, confirmed yesterday that, subject to
a last calibration and alignment test, it was ready to start broadcasting
clandestine pictures from its orbit 295 miles above Earth.

With the exception of the governments of Cuba, North Korea, Libya, Iraq and
Iran, anybody can order highly-detailed images from anywhere in the world,
for as little as 31.80 per square foot, subject to a 3200 minimum order.

The sharpest commercial satellite images available now capture features no
smaller than 33ft across, good enough for media pictures of the Tiananmen
Square massacre but not detailed enough for covert examinations of
neighbours' activities.

However, once EarlyBird 1 starts taking pictures, customers will be able to
control it via the Internet and place orders for black-and-white pictures
that will show features as small as 10ft across.

EarthWatch promises that pictures will be taken and sent to customers
within two days of receiving the target co-ordinates. "It's detailed enough
to distinguish a car from a truck, or to measure the size of a neighbour's
extension," said Bob Wientzen, an EarthWatch spokesman. Colour pictures
will also be offered, but with a resolution of only within 45ft.

Most of the time, the satellite is expected to focus on targets related to
town planning, map-making, disaster relief or mining. It will also allow
the media and the public to scrutinise environmental and military crises.

Some industry experts expect the biggest customers to be foreign
governments and intelligence agencies who do not have access to spy
satellite networks of their own.

Companies in India, Israel, Russia, China and America plan to launch a
further generation of spy satellites capable of distinguishing objects with
a diameter of about three feet.

--=====================_883451814==_--

http://TeamInfinity.com/~ralph/dl.html

Electric Eye in the Sky is a song by ? [Take a guess]
======================================

The lyrics go like this.

Electric Eye

Up here in space
I'm looking down on you.
My lasers trace
Everything you do.

You think you've private lives
Think nothing of the kind.
There is no true escape
I'm watching all the time.

I'm made of metal
My circuits gleam
I am perpetual
I keep the country clean.

I'm elected, electric spy
I'm protected, electric eye.

Always in focus
You can't feel my stare.
I zoom in on you
You dont know I 'm there.
I take a pride in probing all your secret moves My tearless retina takes
pictures that can proof.

Electric eye, in the sky
Feel my stare, always there
There's nothing you can do about it.
Develop and expose
I feed upon your every thought
And so my power grows.

Protected... Detective... Electric Eye...

If you would like to hear this song, please ask.

In our neck of the woods, We have a new system called "Aggressive Driving
Imaging" but the state will not divulge details of this system to us. I
thought we paid their salaries, etc, how can they "not disclose the details
of the system to us". With the numerous "Red Light" cameras ($50,000 a
piece $5000 to install) up that automagically mail tickets to the OWNER of
the car that ran the light, you will have friends and family (who borrowed
the car) being forced to testify against themselves to prevent the owner
from being deprived of his property. Since same cannot be forced to bear
witness against themself, where is the due process that must precede the
taking of the owners property, however small it may start out to be ?


Keep in mind that if there is no victim there is no crime, and that you
should always be able to face your accuser, and that the state cannot sue
or be sued, fair is fair right ? i.e. the plaintiff MUST be an individual
of flesh and blood. Also the right to travel by the means available in your
day, is a RIGHT, not a priviledge, and as such CANNOT be licensed or taxed
or infringed in any manner whatsoever against your will if noncommercial.
(SEE: http://TeamInfinity.com/~ralph/dl.html) And how are eye level camera
shots of people in their cars legal when there is NO PROBABLE CAUSE and no
SIGNED SPECIFC WARRANT !? http://www.bts.gov/smart/cat/images/274/274F1.GIF



Some urls to explore:

http://webserv.dot.co.montgomery.md.us/jpgcap/camintro.html
http://www.atmsonline.com (latest in this sick industry)
http://www.truckers.com/trafcam.htm
http://www.dcn.com/usa.html
http://www.bts.gov/smart/cat/images/274/274F1.GIF
http://TeamInfinity.com/~ralph/dl.html


Looking for more maps of exact locations of these cameras and police state
devices so we can share them with others and compile an exhaustive
inventory of them. We should be allowed to know where the NO-PRIVACY ZONES
ARE and start letting others know the scope breadth and depth.


CAUGHT

You used to watch television. Now it watches you.

By Phil Patton
_________________________________________________________________


It's early morning in the 'burbs. My eyes are barely open, but the video
eye is on me. I stop by the convenience store for coffee and newspapers. On
the grainy screen of a boxy monitor behind the clerk, I catch a glimpse of
a tiny figure that, after a moment, I realize represents me. Opening my
wallet reminds me that I'm as short of cash as usual, so I stop at the ATM.
Through a one-way mirror, a video camera is recording the transaction.

I drive along New Jersey's Route 3 toward New York City, quite possibly
under the video observation of the New Jersey State Police, my state being
one of several that have tested remote stations that capture radar-gun
readings and license-plate numbers and mail out speeding tickets.

As I descend the dread "helix" into the Lincoln Tunnel, I go on TV for
Panasonic. Atop a huge billboard advertising the company's camcorders is
the "Panasonic Traffic Cam," an absurdly tiny device that perches like an
insect above a sign bearing the face of a white-knuckled driver. The driver
looks a bit like the late John Candy - all exasperation as the kids behind
him quibble and scream.

I can tune the radio to 1010 WINS to hear what the camera sees: in a
cunning marketing tie-in, I get "reports from the Panasonic Traffic Cam
high above the helix - there's a 15 minute delay at the Lincoln...."

CUT, if you would like to read the rest of this ESQUIRE MAGAZINE Article,
let me know and I will forward it to you... ralph

Phil Patton (pattonp@pipeline.com) is a contributing editor to Esquire. He
is the author of Made in the USA.



------------------------------------------------------------------------


Write Peter.Navy@Rocketmail.com to find the BLOCKBUSTER suppressed book:


"Tragedy & Hope" by Carroll Quigley


------------------------------------------------------------------------


To find out how to get the suppressed hush hush 384 page BLOCKBUSTER book:

"FINAL JUDGEMENT" by Michael Collins Piper, that argues that ISRAEL's
MOSSAD murdered President John F. Kennedy, or Myron Fagan's tapes, contact
peter.navy@rocketmail.com and ask for a FREE copy of The SPOTLIGHT.

---------------------------

TO RECEIVE email from ralph: send email to ralph@TeamInfinity.com and in
the Subject make sure your email address and the word GO-RALPH (no spaces)
is in the subject.

TO STOP RECEIVING email from ralph: send email to ralph@TeamInfinity.com
and in the Subject make sure your email address and the word WHOA-RALPH (no
spaces) is in the subject.



-> Send "subscribe   snetnews " to majordomo@world.std.com
->  Posted by: jeremy.compton@stonebow.otago.ac.nz (Jeremy Compton)




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 23:14:21 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Redesigned $20 Bills Debut Sept. 24
Message-ID: <199809170415.VAA28233@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Redesigned $20 Bills Debut Sept. 24
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 10:08:59 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  Department of Defense
http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Sep1998/n09151998_9809157.html

[Note: Images at this site if you want to look at the new bill.]

Redesigned $20 Bills Debut Sept. 24 
 By Rudi Williams
 American Forces Press Service

 WASHINGTON - The government rolls out its new redesigned high- tech,
tough-to-copy $20 bill worldwide Sept. 24.
 
 Revamped $50 and $100 notes are already in circulation. The $20  bill,
though, is key to thwarting counterfeiters, because it's  the most widely
circulated "big bill" and the most  counterfeited, Secret Service
spokeswoman Chaun Yount said. The  Secret Service -- the organization that
guards the president --  is the Treasury Department unit that oversees
counterfeiting  issues.
 
 Both sides of the redesigned $20 bills include numerous
anti-counterfeiting measures, she said. Security features include embedded
threads with micro-printing; a watermark; a large, off-center portrait of
President Andrew Jackson with micro-printed words and hard-to-copy engraved
details; the Federal Reserve seal; and color-shifting ink.
 
 Yount said people are the first line of defense against counterfeiting.
People need to be familiar with the new twenties because they'll be seeing
a lot of them, she said. According to U.S. Treasury figures, the mints
print $20 notes in numbers second only to $1 notes.
 
 "We always have $20 bills in our pocket, if we're lucky," she noted. "The
general public pays little attention to the $20 bill because it's the most
commonly used note. Counterfeiters look at that as an opportunity. They
like twenties because of their 'nice profit margin'" -- they have the
highest face value that doesn't draw most people's attention, and passable
fake twenties cost no more to make than fake fives and tens.
 
 "People who are passing counterfeit money are looking for a high volume of
cash," she said. "They target people who are rushed and don't take time to
authenticate the bills." She said military people are not typical targets
of counterfeiters. However, the Treasury Department has been working with
possible targets, such as the military exchange services, to train
employees on the look and security features of the new $20 bill.
 
 In 1995, $231 million worth of counterfeit U.S. money was seized
worldwide, Yount noted. That dropped to $64 million in 1996 and 1997 after
the similarly redesigned $100 and $50 notes were introduced.
 
 She said the new notes will spread as fast as financial institutions order
$20 bills and circulate them. "So for some time, the old and new $20 bills
will circulate at the same time," she noted. "As the old $20 bills wear
out, they'll be replaced with the new ones. The life of a $20 bill is about
two years."
 
 Treasury officials are working on new, high-tech $1, $5 and $10 notes with
anti-counterfeiting features. For more information about redesigned U.S.
currency, visit the Treasury Department Web sites at www.treas.gov or
www.moneyfactory.com/currency/20.cfm.
 
 [IMAGE}  Security features on the front of the new $20 note include an
embedded security
thread; a large, off-center portrait of President Andrew Jackson; the
Federal Reserve
seal; and color-shifting ink. U.S. Treasury Department 

[IMAGE}  The backside of the new $20 note contains fine-line printing
patterns; an
easy-to-read large $20 numeral; and an embedded security thread. U.S. Treasury
Department 
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




**********************************************
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     majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com
with the message:
     (un)subscribe ignition-point email@address
**********************************************
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 23:13:36 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Digital Biometrics Awarded Rhode Island State Contract
Message-ID: <199809170415.VAA28262@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Digital Biometrics Awarded Rhode Island State Contract
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 12:00:41 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  PR Newswire
http://www.prnewswire.com

Digital Biometrics Awarded Rhode Island State Contract 

      DBI Tenprinter 1133S Systems Selected For Rhode Island's Live-Scan
                                Fingerprinting

   MINNEAPOLIS, Sept. 15 /PRNewswire/ -- Digital Biometrics, Inc. (Nasdaq:
DBII) a leader in biometric identification systems integration company,
today announced the award of the Rhode Island State contract for an initial
order of six TENPRINTER 1133S live-scan fingerprinting systems.  These
systems will enable police agencies to eliminate the need for the
traditional ink method of taking fingerprints, and significantly speed
fingerprint processing of criminal and suspected criminal fingerprints with
a higher degree of accuracy.
 
    Live-scan systems such as the 1133S are special-purpose computer-based
systems which capture, digitize and transmit fingerprint images, and
provide a significant improvement in image quality and ease-of-use compared
to the traditional ink-based method of taking fingerprints.  Live-scan
systems are used in law enforcement and increasingly in non-law enforcement
applications such as employment screening, new employee enrollment,
firearms registration, and security screening.

    James C. Granger, President and Chief Executive Officer of Digital
Biometrics commented, "We are very pleased that Rhode Island has chosen DBI
for their fingerprinting network.  Rhode Island joins the growing list of
states that have chosen our live-scan technology." 

    Rhode Island joins Minnesota, Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania,
Connecticut, Oregon, Nevada, Alabama, Indiana, Illinois, North Carolina,
Tennessee, Colorado, California and Virginia as recent U.S. purchasers of
Digital Biometrics TENPRINTER Series live-scan fingerprinting systems.
Digital Biometrics also supplies live-scan systems to the Scottish Criminal
Records Office and has recently won an OEM agreement with TRW for England
and Wales. 

    Digital Biometrics is a provider of biometric identification systems
and systems integration services. DBI is a leading supplier of computer
systems-based products and services for fingerprint capture for law
enforcement and commercial applications. In addition, its Integrated
Identification Solutions Division delivers total solutions through
customized applications and product integration to solve complex
information systems
problems, including identification problems, in commercial and government
markets.

SOURCE Digital Biometrics, Inc.

(c)1998 PR Newswire.
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




**********************************************
To subscribe or unsubscribe, email:
     majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 23:13:50 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Biometrics: SAC Tech: Complete Electronic Security Solution
Message-ID: <199809170415.VAA28279@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Biometrics: SAC Tech: Complete Electronic Security Solution
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 12:02:58 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  PR Newswire
http://www.prnewswire.com

SAC Technologies Showcases Complete Electronic Security Solution 

              Company To Unveil Next Generation Biometrics Technology
                Prototype Product at Security 2001 Conference

    NEW YORK, Sept. 16 /PRNewswire/ -- SAC Technologies, Inc. (Nasdaq:
SACM), a biometrics technology development company, today announced the
Company will unveil a manufacturing prototype of its fully integrated
solution for electronic security applications through biometrics
identification technology at the September 16-17, 1998 Westergaard/Mallon
Security 2001 Conference in New York.

    "A recent survey by the American Society for Industrial Security noted
that losses due to intellectual theft have reached almost $300 billion,"
according to SAC CEO Mr. Barry Wendt. "Computer security is a major concern
with electronic commerce, Internet transactions, on-line banking and
security in general.  Unlike other security measures such as PIN numbers,
passwords or tokens which can easily be lost, stolen or forgotten,
biometrics technology is based on an individual's physical characteristics,
such as a fingerprint, so
it requires the physical presence of an authorized user." 

    SAC Technologies, Inc. plans to introduce the next evolution of its
SACcat(TM) product at the two-day investment conference.  Bundled with
'best of breed' biometrics technology consisting of fingerprint
identification, voice verification and facial recognition, SACcat(TM)
features software applications of computer log-on, screen-saver, and
desktop security and configuration.  Additional integrated software
applications will include Bio-Key(TM) secured video teleconferencing and
video e-mail and SAC_Secure(TM) for selectively encrypting program
applications, data files and network communications using Certicom Corp.'s
elliptic curve engine.

    At the heart of SAC's biometric identification technology is the
Company's "Vector Line Type" Algorithm (VLTA) considered by some to be the
most robust, reliable, scaleable and discriminating algorithm available
today.  VLTA represents a true paradigm shift from current industry
minutiae-based methods of storing and analyzing fingerprints.  VLTA
processes the entire pattern of the fingerprint to derive a list of vector
line types and their associated relationships.

    These unique characteristics of the fingerprint are subsequently
transformed into a vector line type mathematical model or Bio-Key(TM),
which is highly unique and easy to process for comparative purposes.

    Unlike biometric verification (one-to-one matching) processes produced
by its competitors which require an additional identifier (pin number,
token or password), SAC's technology provides for true, real-time
identification (one-to-many) -- the process of comparing the biometric
characteristics of an unknown individual against characteristics stored in
a database to determine their identity.  SAC's certified biometric
identification technology can provide the necessary discrimination to
determine the identity of a user and
thereby insure the integrity of an application by eliminating the
possibility of 'aliases' (multiple identities).  SAC is the first, and
currently remains the only, company in the world to earn the International
Computer Security
Association's (ICSA) biometric 'identification' certification.

    "This latest version of the SACcat(TM) product is a 'turn-key,'
cost-effective hardware and software biometrics security and convenience
solution for individual computer workstations and networks," said Mr.
Wendt.  "We believe that SACcat(TM) is an ideal complement to computer
network security suites provided by such companies as Network Associates,
Secure Computing, Check Point and Security Dynamics."

    "Within a year from now I am convinced that consumers will be asking
whether biometrics security is included in their information systems and
computer applications.  Companies who do not add biometric security to
their product offerings will lose market share.  Compaq, one of the world's
largest providers of PCs, will have a biometrics peripheral product
available this fall.  Other computer providers could gain competitive
advantage by negotiating an exclusive license with the Company to
manufacture, embed and
distribute SACcat(TM) technology," added Mr. Wendt. 

    Companies interested in SAC Technologies' SACcat(TM) biometric security
solution should contact Mr. Barry Wendt at 708-798-9777 or for more
information on the Company check out its website at http://www.sacman.com. 

    Safe Harbor Statement
 
    Statements contained herein, other than historical data, may be
forward-looking and are subject to risks and uncertainties including, but
not limited to the Company's ability to successfully integrate its
technology with other technologies, and its ability to achieve its sales
and marketing plans while effectively managing costs and expenses, as well
as those risks set forth in the Company's 10KSB, 10QSB, and other SEC filings.

SOURCE SAC Technologies
Web Site: http://www.sacman.com

(c)1998 PR Newswire.
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




**********************************************
To subscribe or unsubscribe, email:
     majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com
with the message:
     (un)subscribe ignition-point email@address
**********************************************
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**********************************************




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 23:13:43 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: ****British Police Attempt To Sidestep E-mail Protection
Message-ID: <199809170415.VAA28313@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: Richard Sampson 
Subject: IP: ****British Police Attempt To Sidestep E-mail Protection
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 14:15:28 -0400
To: "ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com" 

****British Police Attempt To Sidestep E-mail Protection
 LONDON, ENGLAND, 1998 SEP 16 (Newsbytes) -- By Steve Gold, Newsbytes.
Newsbytes' sources have revealed that the Metropolitan Police have been
holding a series of low-key discussions with major Internet service
providers (ISPs) in the UK, aiming to streamline police access to
e-mail and ISP user logs.

According to one reliable source, the aim of the discussions is to
develop a ground-breaking agreement between the police and ISPs so
that, where the police have reasonable suspicion that an individual is
sending or receiving e-mail, or downloading images that involve
paedophilia, then they can formally request full details of the
Internet user's mailbox and system logs, for example, from the ISP in
question.

While the aim of the project is to avoid the need for police to
obtain a formal court order to access the ISP's computer systems,
Newsbytes expects there to be a massive outcry from civil libertarian
groups, since the police order could well be implemented against anyone
with an account with a British ISP.

Newsbytes understands that an expose on the police plans will be
broadcast on Channel 4 news at 19:00 hours on British television this
evening.

Newsbytes' sources suggest that British ISPs are under immense
pressure to comply with the police system since, if they do not comply
and request a court order, the police could theoretically impound their
computer systems, effectively putting an ISP out of action, and perhaps
business, for an unknown period of time.

"While I can understand the police wanting to gain access to Internet
users' files who are accessing the Net for paedophile images, this does
seem something of a steamroller approach," said one industry source who
spoke to Newsbytes after agreeing anonymity.

Newsbytes notes that a major flaw exists in the British police's
modus operandi for the proposed system, since the e-mail file servers
for America Online (AOL) and CompuServe (AOL is the UK's largest ISP)
are held in the US. Only the company's sales and support operations are
located in the UK.

"It will be interesting to see how the management of AOL and
CompuServe in the US react to the news that they have to willingly hand
over user logs and e-mail files to the British police," said the
anonymous source.

As has been proven by various cases in the US, the normal legal
protection afforded postal and telephone communications by anti-
wiretap legislation is not automatically extended to include e-mail.

In the UK, it had been thought that the Interception of
Communications Act might apply to e-mail, but the law relating to
e-mail remains unproven, Newsbytes notes.

Reported by Newsbytes News Network, http://www.newsbytes.com .

-0-

(19980916/WIRES LEGAL, ONLINE/)


News provided by COMTEX.
[!BUSINESS] [!HIGHTECH] [!INFOTECH] [!PUBLIC+COMPANIES] [!WALL+STREET]
[BUSINESS] [COMPUTER] [E-MAIL] [ENGLAND] [GOLD] [INTERNET] [LEGISLATION]
[LONDON] [NBY] [NEWS] [NEWSGRID] [ONLINE] [POLICE] [SALES] [TELEVISION]


--
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a
prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------





**********************************************
To subscribe or unsubscribe, email:
     majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com
with the message:
     (un)subscribe ignition-point email@address
**********************************************
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 23:13:35 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: White House decision affects e-mail scrambling software
Message-ID: <199809170415.VAA28324@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: White House decision affects e-mail scrambling software
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 18:17:36 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  Fox News - AP

White House decision affects e-mail scrambling  software
 6.56 p.m. ET (2256 GMT) September 16, 1998

 By Ted Bridis, Associated Press

 WASHINGTON (AP) - The Clinton administration relaxed some restrictions
Wednesday on the export of powerful data-scrambling technology - a decision
that could help Americans who want to guarantee the privacy of their e-mail
and other electronic information. 

 The White House said U.S. companies can begin selling high-tech tools
overseas that use the so-called 56-bit Data Encryption Standard or its
equivalent, which has an unlocking key with 72 quadrillion possible
combinations. 

 The government imposes limits on exports of the most powerful scrambling
technology - now anything above 56-bit - because it fears that authorities,
even with a judge's permission, won't be able to read the messages of
criminals or terrorists. 

 The export limits do not directly affect Americans, who are legally free
to use encryption technology of any strength. But U.S. companies are
reluctant to develop one version of their technology for domestic use and a
weaker overseas version, so they typically sell only the most powerful type
that's legal for export, even to Americans. 

 Vice President Al Gore called the new rule's balance between privacy and
not helping criminals "probably one of the single-most difficult and
complex issues that you can possibly imagine.'' 

 "We must ensure that new technology does not mean new and sophisticated
criminal and terrorist activity,'' Gore said. "And we must ensure that the
sensitive financial and business transactions that now cruise along the
information superhighway are 100 percent safe in cyberspace.'' 

 Privacy advocates, though, derided Wednesday's announcement as a modest
step, noting that a non-profit group of researchers demonstrated earlier
this summer it can unscramble a 56-bit coded message in just days. 

 Experts have suggested that scrambling sensitive e-mail or online
credit-card transactions using less than 90 bits is vulnerable, while most
experts consider 128-bit encryption practically unbreakable. 

 Some companies that sell encryption products nonetheless praised the
announcement. The president of the Business Software Alliance, Robert
Holleyman, called it "a significant improvement over what we have today.'' 

 The administration previously limited the export of 40-bit encryption
technology, which has more than 1 trillion combinations. 

 "It's a step but it's a small step,'' said Alan Davidson, an encryption
expert for the Washington-based Center for Democracy and Technology. "We're
worried that 56 bits is not enough.'' 

 Barry Steinhardt, president of the Electronic Frontier Foundation, a San
Francisco-based civil liberties group, said: "We assume this is done to
throw a bone to industry at a time when the administration needs all the
friends it can get.''

 "But it's half a step, and it continues to rely on dangerous
technologies,'' he said. 

 The White House also said Wednesday that it will allow U.S. companies to
use unlimited-strength encryption to communicate with their subsidiaries in
all countries except seven terrorist nations: Iran, Iraq, Libya, Syria,
Sudan, North Korea and Cuba. 

 It also agreed to allow U.S. encryption companies to sell the most
powerful scrambling tools overseas to insurance companies and health and
medical organizations in more than 40 countries. 

 And the administration said it will establish a technical support center
for federal, state and local authorities who might be confronted with
criminals using encryption. 

 In June, the Electronic Frontier Foundation used a custom-built computer
worth less than $250,000 to crack a 56-bit encrypted message in less than
three days to win an industry contest. The EFF published a book describing
exactly how to build a replica of its code-breaking computer. 

                  (c) 1998 Associated Press. All rights reserved.
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




**********************************************
To subscribe or unsubscribe, email:
     majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com
with the message:
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**********************************************
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 20:51:00 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: Democracy... (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809170216.VAA11232@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: Matthew James Gering 
> Subject: RE: Democracy... (fwd)
> Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 18:46:04 -0700

> > So if a Texas DPS officer pulled over a car from Louisiana he couldn't
> > hassle them in regards to the pot they had in the car. Even 
> > though it was illegal for Texas citizens.
> 
> Wow, you learn something new every day.

You didn't learn anything because you weren't paying attention. This was
supposition based on a strict interpretation of the Constitution. You should
try reading *every* word.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Lazlo Toth 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 20:36:27 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Your new password
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I predict that naughty cypherpunks will use these passwords to repeatedly
add the following names to "Schlomo"'s list of contacts:

mark@sixdegrees.com
webmaster@sixdegrees.com
postmaster@sixdegrees.com
issues@sixdegrees.com

If that doesn't work, really naughty cypherpunks may also add the addresses
of prominent journalists.

Of course, those things would be WRONG.

-Lazlo


>Name: Schlomo CyberPoopy
>sixdegrees password: linkcusp
>
>Congratulations Schlomo. You're well on your way to
>becoming a full sixdegrees(tm) member. Here is your member
>password: linkcusp. Use it to log-in on the home page
>at the sixdegrees Web site, http://www.sixdegrees.com.
>We'll ask you for a little more information to complete your
>registration, and then you'll be ready to start networking.
>
>It's important that you return to the site and log-in. Your
>membership will not be complete until you do so.
>
>Once you've successfully logged in with your password, just go
>to Personal Profile and you'll be able to choose your own
>password.
>
>Thanks for becoming part of sixdegrees. We're looking forward
>to seeing you at the site.
>
>====================================================================
>PLEASE NOTE: All replies to this address are processed by a computer.
>If you believe you received this e-mail in error, and it was not your
>intention to become a sixdegrees member, or if you have any problems,
>questions or requests send an e-mail to issues@sixdegrees.com
>and someone will get back to you as soon as possible.
>====================================================================
>
>
>E.SI.BAM.1




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: AIMSX@aol.com
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 20:52:50 +0800
To: sunder@brainlink.com
Subject: Re: Larry Gilbert, AOLers, and the Hyper-real flamer
Message-ID: <5e38fbca.36006a19@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Hmm... have you ever thought... that my mother may not exactly love the idea
of me having access to other people's accounts... so I need to do what she
DOES condone?  You just don't seem to be using your brain.

>Some of them have over 100 accounts on the same ISP, and are
>truly so full of shit, that they're swimming in it.  Kid, by bullshiting, all
>you're doing is enforcing the view that AOL users are really AOLusers.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: CHerr58414@aol.com
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 20:47:56 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: software
Message-ID: <63f88dc4.36006a60@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



if u got any freeware for encripting and decodeing that would be great so if
you can mail me back some info. Thanks




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "James A. Donald" 
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 00:04:50 +0800
To: "Lynne L. Harrison" 
Message-ID: <4.0.2.19980916214403.00b11d50@shell11.ba.best.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



    --
At 05:57 AM 9/16/98 -0400, Lynne L. Harrison wrote:
> A woman who comes on to her male employer and, when he
> accepts her "invitation", cannot turn around and allege:
> "Poor me.  I was a victim.  He is so powerful."  

Yet no one seems to have any problem with this rule being
applied to CEOs, only a problem with it being applied to
presidents. 

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     2aVP9ftnkz+0wn/kd/N9HGp1JPE41U0bVQsUpt+h
     467+NY0mNvo4pZtKEh4Iv9geyZ8ZmQ3GI4jFYWSxJ
-----------------------------------------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because 
of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this 
right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.


http://www.jim.com/jamesd/      James A. Donald




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jeff Penrod 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 22:15:49 +0800
To: "Edwin E. Smith" 
Message-ID: <199809170307.WAA08854@unix1.sihope.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 07:09 PM 9/15/98 -0400, Edwin E. Smith wrote:

>I confess that sometimes I troll 
>for flames to get the dialog going. 

>To all of you who are offended by what you read or have been attacked 
>and shirk away I say, stick around, learn and grow. The words which 
>come to you can not hurt you if you don't let them. If you are to 
>timid to endure a few flames then woe be unto you if anyone comes at 
>you with actual violence on his mind.


You aren't cscoville@tns-inc.com, are you?


Regards,

Jeff




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 15:16:06 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Clinton still doesnt get it
Message-ID: <199809162017.WAA32443@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Anonymous writes:
> 
> Frondeur writes:
> 
> > Why do you believe the perjury case has `reasonable doubt' problems?
> 
> Watch TV and learn the answer.  It's only perjury if it's material,
> and the judge said it wasn't material.

This doesn't speak to `reasonable doubt' which was the subject
under discussion.  Or are you arguing that a defense to perjury
is that there is reasonable doubt that a question was material?
Go watch TV and report back with the answer.


> > And the abuse of power case seems thin even to a non-lawyer.  But
> > where does the `executive privilege stuff' come in?  I don't see
> > that Starr listed that among his possible grounds for impeachment.
> 
> Among the grounds Starr listed was Clinton's attempt to delay the
> investigation by raising many legal objections. He claimed privilege,
> for example, with respect to Secret Service testimony.  Most of his
> efforts were ultimately overruled.

Yes, but I assumed Mac had included this under the `abuse of power'
heading since he explicitly cited that topic in his message to which
I was responding, and since that appeared to match one of the broad
headings under which Starr classifies his possible `grounds for
impeachment':

    "...that President Clinton's actions ... have been inconsistent 
    with the President's constitutional duty to faithfully execute 
    the laws. "

I see nowhere that Starr claims that it was illegal/impeachable for
Clinton to have claimed executive privilege.  He merely notes that
Clinton used it (extensively) along with a bunch of other tactics to
delay and impede the investigation.

 - Frondeur




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jaeger 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 22:26:33 +0800
To: "Edwin E. Smith" 
Message-ID: <36008052.C8B84516@hempseed.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I reply to this message going point by point, within the original
text...  so scroll down if you care to read what I wrote..

> AI recently saw a posting about right v. wrong or good v. evil. These
> are subjective terms as any good semanticist knows. But what is real

Neither good nor evil is subjective to anything...  if something is
absolutely evil, then there is nothing that will make it good...  (and
vice versa )

> and what is unreal is a much more difficult thing to determine. It
> requires rigorous thinking without prejudice or belief getting in the
> way.

> As to law. The first of the Bill of Rights says:
>
> Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,
> or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of
> speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to
> assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
>
> If you are going to quote something, do it fully and accurately. It
> isn't that hard and if you don't have a copy of the constitution
> laying around then either get one or keep your damn mouth shut until
> you know what you are talking about.
>

as to the above thing about quoting, I agree...

> No, the words "seperation of church and state" do not appear but then
> neither does "privacy", but it is damn well implied by the 4th
> amendment.
>

I disagree with the above...  I'll explain later

> Those self-righteous pricks who want bible reading in the schools and
>

speaking of invalid arguments...  might the above be an  ad
hominem (abusive) attack ?!?

> rail against those who recite the 1st amendment either lack
> understanding of the term "reading" or are being dishonest by
>

ditto to my previous comment

> insisting that disallowing teachers to read the bible to students is
> wrong and that the constitution needs to be amended. Anyone with any
> honesty would realize that the first amendment doesn't prohibit bible
> reading by students or even bible study in a historical context. It
>

as for the teachers reading the Bible to their classes, I would agree
that that is a violation of the first amendment...  however, the Bible
is a useful teaching tool as far as understanding history, as much of
history is influenced by the Bible or parts of it (the crusades, the
inquisition, various countries' foundings/gov't systems, and, of course,
the United States' history).  Using the Bible in a historical context
passes the Lemon test (guidelines laid out by the USSC regarding gov't
attitude towards religion)

> merely prohibits tax-paid teachers from "respecting an establishment
> of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;". If I see
> just one more bible-thumping zealot message about "would you care to
> show us where "seperation of church and state" is to be found in the
> constitution/bill of rights?" I will be tempted to take him out in
> the parking lot and pound sand into the parts which are unaccustomed
> to this substance.
>

okay, so this is a new kind of fallacy...  the appeal to a physical
threat as a means of winning an argument...  great...  you seem to be
very well rounded in making a variety of false arguments...

> I am all for separation of school and state. Show me where in the
> constitution/bill of rights everyone is entitled to a theft/tax
> funded education. This would solve church and state in schools
>

I defintiely agree with the above...

> wouldn't it. If you don't like your kids getting a non-religious
> education from the godless state, you are free to pull them out and
> put them into a private school of your choice. But of course it isn't
>

I was homeschooled for four years...(against my will)

> your kids you are worried about is it? It's all those other peoples
> kids that aren't getting the benefit of the word of the one true
> Christian god that you want to help isn't it!
>

no, actually it's more the insistence of the schools to present only the
humanist approach (which I consider a religion), rather than presenting
the facts as they are that bothers me...

> Hypocrisy is the Vaseline(tm) of political intercourse!
>
> Edwin E. Smith
>

how lovely....

Jaeger




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Neels Kriek" 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 22:57:47 +0800
To: "Sunder" 
Subject: Re: Encrypting files.
Message-ID: <001201bde1ee$b19c04a0$93060cd1@alien>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Try DataSafe.  Dunno which algo it uses but easy to use and anything is
better than zip ;)

www.novastor.com

hope this helps
-----Original Message-----
From: Sunder 
To: Lars Weitze 
Cc: Cypherpunks 
Date: Wednesday, September 16, 1998 18:25
Subject: Re: Encrypting files.


>Lars Weitze wrote:
>>
>> Does anyone now a program for WindozeNT to store encrypted data on
harddisk.
>> At the moment i use
>> ZIP-Files with a Password on them (I now it is not very secure).
>> I am living outside USA and do not want any software with backdoors
>> ,"masterkeys" or stuff like that.
>
>http://www.pcdynamics.com/SafeHouse/
>
>--
>
>=====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos==============
>.+.^.+.|       Sunder       |Prying open my 3rd eye.  So good to see |./|\.
>..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were      |/\|/\
><--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run  |\/|\/
>../|\..| "A toast to Odin,  |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/.
>.+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were....            |.....
>======================= http://www.sundernet.com ==========================
>
>




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Marshall Clow 
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 01:04:37 +0800
To: Bill Stewart 
Subject: Re: DARPA Hires NetAss/TIS TO Develop Secure DNS
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>This is somewhat tacky.  SecureDNS exists, and TIS got export approval
>a while back to publish a "bones" version, minus encryption routines.
>John Gilmore and his lawyer decided that, since it only does authentication,
>not message encryption, it should be ok to publish _with_ the crypto
>algorithms, and it's been quietly sitting on his web pages.
>Recently the Feds sent him a letter saying "Oh, no, we didn't mean
>it was OK to publish/export this encryption-based authentication system
>just because the law says you can, so stop it"....
>Now they're paying for another version.  Are they going to try something
>DSS-based instead of RSA, just so you don't need encryption-capable
>crypto with it, or is this going to be another scam?
>Or is it just different parts of the Feds not talking to each other?
>
Delay is the deadliest form of denial.
-- Marshall

Marshall Clow     Adobe Systems   

"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the
government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of
taking care of them." --Thomas Jefferson




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Paul H. Merrill" 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 22:10:32 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: The AOL Chronicles
In-Reply-To: <199809170045.CAA23060@replay.com>
Message-ID: <3600A7C2.4322F295@acm.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I hate to break it to you but, while most are pretty damn clueless,
there were some in that list that show that either you should go find a
clue (because the thought expressed went right over your head) or you
are placing all things which you disagree with in the clueless category.

PHM

Anonymous wrote:
> 
> Every time one of these AOL wars start, the AOLers claim that there are a
> few intelligent people on AOL and that our shunning of them based on
> statistics is unjustified. We all know what the statistics are, but I
> don't think anybody has done this for Cypherpunks yet. It has been done
> other places. This isn't scientific with margins of error and everything,
> but it's good enough to illustrate the point.
> 
> I went through every posting originating from AOL which was sent to
> Cypherpunks between July and September 16th, which is today. I classified
> postings as either "clueful" or "clueless," with the latter determined by
> relevance to the list, literacy, quoting, and whether it makes any sense
> at all. Anything completely stupid is also classed as "clueless."
> "Clueful" is anything which is even remotely relevant to the list, and
> includes quoted material if a followup.
> 
> In addition, if an AOL user sends something clueless to the list then gets
> flamed, that posting and any subsequent postings in that thread by the
> original author are counted as clueless unless it's an apology, at which
> point it isn't counted at all. The flames of said user are counted as
> defense, not as clueless. Also, if I looked at the message but couldn't
> tell what the hell the author was talking about because he didn't bother
> to quote, I classed the posting as clueless.
> 
> A "*" denotes that the portion I quote is the entire message. A "+"
> denotes that there was either no quoted material in the message or that it
> used the "<<>>" style. Keep in mind that messages which are original would
> not have quoted material, but still have a "+". A "H" means that it
> contained HTML. I removed all new lines from the quotes to make them more
> compact. If the posting was large, I quoted only some parts.
> 
> Clueless posts from AOL:
> 
> 1) "At least they have TCP/IP protocols now with Win 95 ex: Hiroshima
>    45, Tsjernobyl 86, Windows 95 (Please, correct my spelling if I
>    misspelled Tsjernobyl)" -- FTPPork@aol.com (Porker), 18 Aug 1998, (+)
> 
> 2) "Ibelive by spooks he ment goverment agents not a racial slur so lay
>    off." -- ILovToHack@aol.com, 31 Aug 1998, (+*)
> 
> 3) "judy -- how about let's go shopping first and then watch the show
>    remotely together????" -- Syniker@aol.com, 16 Jul 1998, (+)
> 
> 4) "please i need some suggestions with topics for my informative speech,
>    or may some infromative speeches already outlined to use it for
>    refrence. thankyou." -- KMHAsfaha@aol.com, 17 Jul 1998, (*+)
> 
> 5) "d" -- Saxgrim@aol.com, 18 Jul 1998, (*+)
> 
> 6) "send me the book (e/mail me back" -- JackeI466@aol.com, 19 Jul 1998,
>    (+*)
> 
> 7) "Hello: My name is Enisa, I'm 13 years old. I write an online e-zine
>    that for teens. We have over 150+ members. We just started a few days
>    ago. We are looking for sponsors to sponsor our contests. These are
>    some of the things we are able to do for you..." -- Craz8Grl@aol.com,
>    20 Jul 1998, (+H)
> 
> 8) "you got it?" -- LrdWill@aol.com, 20 Jul 1998, (+*)
> 
> 9) "would love to see info re; international credit cards." --
>    TTrump5646@aol.com, 21 Jul 1998, (+*)
> 
> 10) "i would be very delighted if u gave me a free download for 5.0
>     realplayer.if u would send it to mike111495@aol.com and
>     indoe29c@aol.com we will be very honored to receive them. thankx and
>     goodbye" -- Mike111495@aol.com, 22 Jul 1998, (+*)
> 
> 11) [A bunch of asterisks and screaming] "I was recently informed from
>     sorces who choose to remain annomous about a viri that uses macafe's
>     update tool to detect when it is found then it modifys its code and
>     forms a new strain of the virus this pattern continues although it has
>     only been tested through a clone of macafees server to 100 mutations
>     it looks like it could be a big problem I will inform you of any more
>     information i learn about it but for now    "THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE""
>     -- ILovToHack@aol.com, 22 Jul 1998, (+*)
> 
> 12) "WHY CANT I FIND ANY WHITE AMERICAN YOUTH ALBUMS ANYWHERE?" --
>     koitch@aol.com, 23 Jul 1998, (+*)
> 
> 13) [Subject: Pipe bombs r better] "they rule!" -- Ant6menace@aol.com, 23
>     Jul 1998, (+*)
> 
> 14) "Actually, AOL, along with being an acceptable ISP with built in
>     authentication of sender, has an easily used Mail interface.  (Even if
>     it doesn't exactly follow the standards.)" -- MMerlynne@aol.com, 24
>     Jul 1998, (+*), in response to #12.
> 
> 15) "HELLO, IS THERE ANY WAY TO GET MY HANDS ON S BOOK THAT SHOWS THE REAL
>     BASEBALL PEOPLE AUTOGRAPHS AND THE FAKES SO I KNOW WHAT TO LOOK FOR???
>     PLEASE REPLY" -- AT666IND@aol.com, 25 Jul 1998, (+*)
> 
> 16) "I am trying to find my brother, "Allen Thomas Taylor" I am not sure
>     what year he was born but I think it was l922, l923.  We have the same
>     Father[...]" -- CEr1942929@aol.com (Christine Ernest), 26 Jul 1998,
>    (+)
> 
> 17) "Hey:  Who made up the term "Politically Correct"?  Not Christians and
>     not Republicans. Your side did.  How does wanting a smaller
>    government, less taxes, the freedom to CHOOSE to pray in schools, the
>    rights of the un-born( of[...] CHOKE ON IT YOU HYPOCRITE" --
>    JBrown4330@aol.com, 27 Jul 1998, (+)
> 
> 18) "do you have music vinyl stickers , if so , could i get them
>     wholesale?" -- Babybee390@aol.com, 29 Jul 1998, (+*)
> 
> 19) "I'm looking for Lynrd Skynrds Freebird  on a window sticker for my
>     car.  Do you know where I can find one?" -- Vox9869@aol.com, 28 Jul
>    1998, (+*)
> 
> 20) "More!" -- CLCTCHR@aol.com, 29 Jul 1998, (+*)
> 
> 21) "Can you do a 5 color process?  4x4".  Price on 500,1000,1500" --
>     ELarson100@aol.com, 4 Aug 1998, (+*)
> 
> 22) [Subject: whut up] "looking for a place to have some Band stickers
>     made, can you email me a phone number so we can check out some
>     prices.....thanks TIm" -- FRETELUCO@aol.com, 6 Aug 1998, (+*)
> 
> 23) "Could you please send me the Anarchy Cookbook.....I really want it
>     and I cant find it anywhere! Thanx for your help.. Mike Jonhson" --
>     XoVoX123@aol.com, 9 Aug 1998, (+*)
> 
> 24) [Subject: .] "" (Yes, nothing.) -- EpicTeU@aol.com, 9 Aug 1998, (+*)
> 
> 25) "Come on thake it easy on the guy at least he aint on AOL or somthing
>     stuped." -- ILovToHack@aol.com, 13 Aug 1998, ()
> 
> 26) [Subject: Subject: LOL. Made me look] "" (Yes, nothing.) --
>     Seabiner@aol.com, 14 Aug 1998, (+*)
> 
> 27) "about: Hello, I am trying to start a VB 32 bit code bank you can send
>     any code you want to exept codes for aol addons...  . 1nce a week most
>     likely on fridays I will check the hotmail account specifyed below and
>     I will take all the codes and put them in a txt file and send it to
>     everyone who sent a code in since I am [...] To send Codes for the ML
>     Send E-mail to VB32Coders@Hotmail.com In the sbject field write
>     anonymous / Code topic if you don't want your E-Mail address to show
>     up when I send the Codes out or else just type the topic of the code
>     you are sending.. ." -- EpicTeU@aol.com, 14 Aug 1998, (+)
> 
> 28) "Because the American Justice system is screwed up royally... for
>    instance - Kevin Mitnick... www.KevinMitnick.com" -- FTPPork@aol.com,
>    17 Aug 1998, (+*)
> 
> 29) "I am interested in travel between Knoxville, Tennessee  and Des
>     Moines, Iowa. I would also be interested in Nashville, Tennessee and
>     Des Moines, Iowa or Atlanta and Des Moines, Iowa.  Please notify me of
>     specials in these markets. Thanks, Linda Tisue ltisue@aol.com" --
>     Ltisue@aol.com, 18 Aug 1998, (+*)
> 
> 30) "I am looking to distribute a product and I was wondering if you can
>     tell me how to get mass e mail addresses. I look forward to hearing
>     from you." -- LHilley488@aol.com, 19 Aug 1998, (+*)
> 
> 31) "Send me info on how to make a pipe bomb. HoppyF1315" --
>     HOPPYF1215@aol.com (Hoppy Head), 19 Aug 1998, (+*)
> 
> 32) "I take that statement as an insult, and it really isn't true about
>     all of us AOL users. [...] Actually, some of us know what real hacking
>     is...[...] Anyway, try not to stereotype people so much, because, with
>     the Advent of 32 bit AOL, we can actually use all of the TCP/IP
>     protocols, etc..." -- FTPPork@aol.com, 20 Aug 1998, (+)
> 
> 33) [Subject: anarchy cookbook] "Is any one home?" -- Spazherp@aol.com, 21
>     Aug 1998, (+*)
> 
> 34) "I did not say anywhere that 32 bit would fix problems of cluelessness
>     - or ignorance in your case.  I said, it is a little better because we
>    can now use TCP/IP protocols.  Did I ever say that the people on AOL
>    were smarter because of it?  Well, let's go read over that post - - -
>    nope... I didn't.  I think some people should read a little more
>    carefully, or just don't read at all." -- FTPPork@aol.com, 22 Aug 1998,
>    (+*) (As I recall, this one was in response to a set of flames which
>    cited his assertion in #32.)
> 
> 35) [Subject: can you help me make virses please tell me who to make one
>     step by step] "I need help i want to know how to make a virses in
>     c\c++ please help me." -- VXF32@aol.com, 21 Aug 1998, (+*)
> 
> 36) "Tell me how to get tons of free stuff!  Thank You ." --
>     RAGOD5597@aol.com, 21 Aug 1998, (+*)
> 
> 37) "Here we go again" -- FTPPork@aol.com, 22 Aug 1998, (+*)
> 
> 38) [Subject: tell me] "hola and good tidings send some info on spooks
>     please i will be grateful" -- RyanFord@aol.com, 29 Aug 1998, (+*)
> 
> 39) [Subject: h] "how did u do it" -- CRBREW9802@aol.com, 7 Sep 1998, (+*)
> 
> 40) " HaCkaZ OnlY Da EliTeHelLO YaLL DiS is Da MaDD AAOOLL HaCka Ima
>     startin a GreWp fOR HaCs Only So In OthA WerDS yA gOttA KnOw The WAreZ
>     anD HoW toO UsEr FaTe AnD AOL So MaIl Or Im Me FoR Da TeTaIls If YeR
>     LeeTo K Pe@CE FrOmE The LeeTs HacKJeFFrO)" -- Jrjeffro@aol.com, 9 Sep
>     1998, (+*)
> 
> 41) Message quoting the above, which wasn't originally sent to the list,
>     in "<< >>" style, adding only: "What the hell is this? No wonder why
>     AOLers have a bad name Im going to Flame this guy" -- EpicTeU@aol.com,
>     10 Sep 1998, (+*)
> 
> 42) "Preach on brother =)" -- AIMSX@aol.com, 15 Sep 1998, (+*), copied to
>     25 other recipients, plus the list.
> 
> 43) "I read that book" -- AIMSX@aol.com, 15 Sep 1998, (+*)
> 
> 44) "All Creatures Great and Small - that one... =) I also read an Aasimov
>     a while back in fifth grade - unfortunately, I can't remember even the
>     name... I need to pick some of his books up again... One book I can
>     remember reading since 5th grade (and every summer thereafter) is "IT"
>     by Stephen King - one of his few really good books.  I have read it 8
>     times since. I greatly recommend it =)" -- AIMSX@aol.com, 15 Sep 1998,
>     (+*)
> 
> 45) "We are sending you an invitation to be one of our special guests this
>     year, big harry ass lawsuits are always of interest.  Bring a friend
>     if you like, but I have to warn you, Liberatarians are not welcome.
>     This years menu includes red meat and poptarts.  Clothing is optional.
>     Sincerely, Beth" -- BUFFU@aol.com, 17 Jul 1998, (+*)
> 
> 46) "That's why I suggest listening to I Robot by Alan Parson's Project."
>     -- StanSqncrs@aol.com, 18 Jul 1998, (+*)
> 
> 47) "If sombody offers you some FedGov, just say NO!" --
>     Nilsphone@aol.com, 23 Jul 1998, (), copied to 32 recipients, including
>     the list.
> 
> Note the "+" ratings on the below. (Semi-)Clueful postings from AOL:
> 
> 1) "It's the easy way out (and I mean DOWN and OUT)!  I mean, if we're
>    simply going to change them out everytime, why bother to figure out
>    which ones a going to change them out everytime, why bother to figure
>    out which ones aren't evil/stupid (I mean, out of all those
>    politicians, there's got to be 1 or 2! I think. ;-) )? See, if we just
>    simply change politicians at every chance, then we throw the baby out
>    with the bathwater, so to speak.  The simple solutions aren't always
>    the best ones." -- StanSqncrs@aol.com, 17 Jul 1998, (+*)
> 
> 2) "ROFLOL!  What's coincidental?  The latest tune that my band, Nobody's
>    Business (in which I play bass and sing) has learned, is Cheap
>    Sunglasses by ZZ Top. If it ain't coinicidence, I got a 'scarecrow' in
>    my band. " -- StanSqncrs@aol.com, 18 Jul 1998, (+)
> 
> 3) [Subject: Subject: Nomination of Lyndon Larouche to the UNITED NATIONS
>    OF THE FRINGE] "Hey Punks, As a United Nations OF the Cyber Fringe
>    Member,  I am asking for your input on giving Lyndon a nomination.  So
>    far his war crimes only include[...]" -- BUFFU@aol.com, 20 Jul 1998,
>    (+)
> 
> 4) "If you would like information about tempest monitors, computers,
>    printers or secure fax machines, please contact me." --
>    CompSec01@aol.com (Karen Azoff), 22 Jul 1998, (+)
> 
> I gave up at this point because the clueless list just kept growing. The
> ratio isn't encouraging, especially since I was being generous with what
> is considered a "clueful post."




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Brian B. Riley" 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 22:22:26 +0800
To: 
Subject: Re: Democracy...
Message-ID: <199809170315.XAA26801@mx02.together.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On 9/15/98 10:27 PM, Jaeger (Jaeger@hempseed.com)  passed this wisdom:

>
>hey, would you care to show us where "seperation of church and state" is
>to be found in the constitution/bill of rights?  absolute right and
>wrong is not a religious belief (necessarily)..  your religious beliefs
>do not affect the nature of reality.  there are absolute truths by

 [snip]

>> Ever heard of seperation of church and state? Democracy? the rights of
>>
>> the individual?  While you certainly have the right to practice your
>> religion in what ever manner you so choose demanding that everyone
>> else
>> does, or that the president of the us of ais subject to you PERSONAL
>> faith decisions is outragous

 The first amendment states only that there shall not be 'an 
establishment of religion' it says nada about 'separation of church and 
state.'  The intention was simple; that there would never be an 
'official' state religion. It didn't say religion had no place. They were 
escaping a regime with an established state religion that used the 
goverment to stamp out religious deviationism. That was the sole reason 
for that clause in the 1st amendment.

Brian B. Riley --> http://members.macconnect.com/~brianbr
 For PGP Keys  

   "...if you drink much from a bottle marked "poison."
  and it is almost certain to disagree with you, sooner or later"
             _Alice in Wonderland_: (Lewis Carroll)





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "sixdegrees"<1dbe50n5@auto.sixdegrees.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 22:21:05 +0800
To: "Maelbom Sixty Grees"
Subject: Nita Daniel
Message-ID: <199809170316.UAA00177@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Just a quick update from sixdegrees(tm). Unfortunately Nita 
Daniel (machita@gurlmail.com) asked not to be listed as your 
contact with sixdegrees.

We also wanted to make sure you were aware that you currently 
have no other confirmed contacts, so it will be hard for you to
have a productive sixdegrees experience. As you probably know, 
without any confirmed contacts, you won't get any results from our 
networking searches. 

So, we just wanted to recommend that you head over to 
http://www.sixdegrees.com , log-in, and go to MY CONTACTS 
to list additional relationships. 


====================================================================
PLEASE NOTE: All replies to this address are processed by a computer.
If you have any problems, questions or requests send an e-mail to 
issues@sixdegrees.com and someone will get back to you as soon as 
possible.
====================================================================


E.DB.BRESP.3




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mixmaster 
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 01:40:48 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: radio net
Message-ID: <577cde4f1b43b42c6f5bac07a97ab122@anonymous>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Thu, 10 Sep 1998, Robert Hettinga wrote:

> 
> Hey, guys,
> 
> Someone here already said it, but nobody else got it, so I'll repeat it:
> SSB, or Single Sideband. It's commercial ham radio, if you will, and all
> the ships use it. I expect that you can shove anything down an SSB set that
> you want, including encrypted traffic.
> 
> Ham radio is a government nerd subsidy, and as such, doesn't do much but
> make more government funded/sactioned/approved/whatever nerds. :-).
> 
> SSB would do just fine. It's an international standard, after all, and
> probably not under the control of any one government, even.e

Do you need a license for that one? Can someone explain what exactly the
sidebands are? It rings a bell and I used to know, but it's been around 15
years since I played with this kind of thing. It's just under the surface
of my brain, but I just can't place it.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "sixdegrees"<4hce50m3@auto.sixdegrees.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 22:56:20 +0800
To: "Maelbom Sixty Grees"
Subject: serene rebel
Message-ID: <199809170349.UAA00533@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Just a quick update from sixdegrees(tm). Unfortunately serene 
rebel (serene_rebel@hotmail.com) asked not to be listed as your 
contact with sixdegrees.

We also wanted to make sure you were aware that you currently 
have no other confirmed contacts, so it will be hard for you to
have a productive sixdegrees experience. As you probably know, 
without any confirmed contacts, you won't get any results from our 
networking searches. 

So, we just wanted to recommend that you head over to 
http://www.sixdegrees.com , log-in, and go to MY CONTACTS 
to list additional relationships. 


====================================================================
PLEASE NOTE: All replies to this address are processed by a computer.
If you have any problems, questions or requests send an e-mail to 
issues@sixdegrees.com and someone will get back to you as soon as 
possible.
====================================================================


E.DB.BRESP.3




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "sixdegrees"
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 23:23:28 +0800
To: "Maelbom Sixty Grees"
Subject: Isaac Lee
Message-ID: <199809170418.VAA00935@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Just a quick update from sixdegrees(tm). Unfortunately Isaac 
Lee (zac@pulp-fiction.com) asked not to be listed as your 
contact with sixdegrees.

We also wanted to make sure you were aware that you currently 
have no other confirmed contacts, so it will be hard for you to
have a productive sixdegrees experience. As you probably know, 
without any confirmed contacts, you won't get any results from our 
networking searches. 

So, we just wanted to recommend that you head over to 
http://www.sixdegrees.com , log-in, and go to MY CONTACTS 
to list additional relationships. 


====================================================================
PLEASE NOTE: All replies to this address are processed by a computer.
If you have any problems, questions or requests send an e-mail to 
issues@sixdegrees.com and someone will get back to you as soon as 
possible.
====================================================================


E.DB.BRESP.3




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Alan Olsen 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 12:12:08 +0800
To: Tim May 
Subject: Re: Democracy...
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Tue, 15 Sep 1998, Tim May wrote:

> 
> At 7:27 PM -0700 9/15/98, Jaeger wrote:
> >hey, would you care to show us where "seperation of church and state" is
> >to be found in the constitution/bill of rights?  absolute right and
> 
> Gee, check out the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. Also the first
> item in the Bill of Rights. "Congress shall make no law respecting the
> establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."
> (from memory, so don't bother me with minor wording corrections.)
> 
> By standard convention, this is also referred to as "separation of church
> and state."

Also check out the text of the Virginia law involving seperation of church
and state written by Thomas Jefferson.  (Should be required reading for
those who insist that the country is based on "Christian values".)  Any
good collection of the writings of Thomas Jefferson should have it. (My
copy was borrowed and never returned a few years ago... Argh!)

alan@ctrl-alt-del.com | Note to AOL users: for a quick shortcut to reply
Alan Olsen            | to my mail, just hit the ctrl, alt and del keys.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Alan Olsen 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 12:19:33 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: your mail
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Wed, 16 Sep 1998, Mixmaster wrote:

> 
> Monday, September 14, 1998 - 23:20:36
> 
> Question: How is it, that the FBI has so much power?
> Answer: Because 'the people' didn't do swat to stop them[the FBI].
> 
> Question: How do 'the people' change the situation?
> Answer: 'The people' get out their banners and megaphones and march on the Congress.
> 
> Question: What do 'the people' do then they[Congress] don't hear 'the people'?
> Answer: 'The people' go on strike.
> 
> Question: What do 'the people' do when Congress doesn't care about their strikes?
> Answer: 'The people' fire their M16'eens at Congress which they brought with them.
> 
> Question: So where are 'the people'?      

"Evil will prevail because good people are too busy having fun."

alan@ctrl-alt-del.com | Note to AOL users: for a quick shortcut to reply
Alan Olsen            | to my mail, just hit the ctrl, alt and del keys.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "sixdegrees"
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 00:41:04 +0800
To: "monkeyboy cypher-prik"
Subject: Your new password
Message-ID: <199809170534.WAA01624@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Name: monkeyboy cypher-prik
sixdegrees Password: leapsink

In response to your request for a new sixdegrees(tm) password, 
we have sent you the following temporary password: leapsink. 

As soon as you come to the site, http://www.sixdegrees.com , and use 
it to log-in on the home page, it will become your official 
password, and your old password will be deactivated. 

(If you end up remembering your old password and use that to 
log-in at the site before using this new temporary password, 
the temporary password will be deactivated.)

This may seem wacky, but it's for your security. And, either 
way, once you successfully log-in at the site, you can go to 
your personal profile and choose whatever password you like - 
in fact, we encourage you to do so.

If you never requested a new password and got this message in 
error, just continue using your old password and e-mail us at 
issues@sixdegrees.com. 

====================================================================
PLEASE NOTE: All replies to this address are processed by a computer.
If you have any problems, questions or requests send an e-mail to 
issues@sixdegrees.com and someone will get back to you as soon as 
possible.
====================================================================




E.SI.REQPW.1




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: HyperReal-Anon 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 21:23:47 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: software
Message-ID: <30e187c88ea73d04fcdabbe178de992f@anonymous>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Wed, 16 Sep 1998 CHerr58414@aol.com wrote:

> 
> if u got any freeware for encripting and decodeing that would be great so if
> you can mail me back some info. Thanks
> 
> 

we gots lotz of hardware for people of ur abillitiez in fact our hardware
is really really hard so if u got any pictures of urself that would be
great so if you can mail us back some. Thanks

LamenessMonger




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 12:36:04 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: 128 bit or 40 bit?
Message-ID: <67ee9e3cc8499f9d72a11a2df56c48fe@anonymous>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Being outside North America, I have an "export" version of 
Internet Explorer/Netscape Navigator. These offer 40 bit 
encryption. (40 bit RC4, I understand).


My financial institution has a 128 bit Verisign certificate.
To my surprise, they claim this offers 128 bit encryption to /me/.
[in transactions to https://secure.mybank.com.xx]

I thought my 40 bit client limited the security to 40 bits.
Who is right? Please explain.

TIA




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 19:45:01 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: The AOL Chronicles
Message-ID: <199809170045.CAA23060@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Every time one of these AOL wars start, the AOLers claim that there are a
few intelligent people on AOL and that our shunning of them based on
statistics is unjustified. We all know what the statistics are, but I
don't think anybody has done this for Cypherpunks yet. It has been done
other places. This isn't scientific with margins of error and everything,
but it's good enough to illustrate the point.

I went through every posting originating from AOL which was sent to
Cypherpunks between July and September 16th, which is today. I classified
postings as either "clueful" or "clueless," with the latter determined by
relevance to the list, literacy, quoting, and whether it makes any sense
at all. Anything completely stupid is also classed as "clueless."
"Clueful" is anything which is even remotely relevant to the list, and
includes quoted material if a followup. 

In addition, if an AOL user sends something clueless to the list then gets
flamed, that posting and any subsequent postings in that thread by the
original author are counted as clueless unless it's an apology, at which
point it isn't counted at all. The flames of said user are counted as
defense, not as clueless. Also, if I looked at the message but couldn't
tell what the hell the author was talking about because he didn't bother
to quote, I classed the posting as clueless. 

A "*" denotes that the portion I quote is the entire message. A "+" 
denotes that there was either no quoted material in the message or that it
used the "<<>>" style. Keep in mind that messages which are original would
not have quoted material, but still have a "+". A "H" means that it
contained HTML. I removed all new lines from the quotes to make them more
compact. If the posting was large, I quoted only some parts. 

Clueless posts from AOL:

1) "At least they have TCP/IP protocols now with Win 95 ex: Hiroshima
   45, Tsjernobyl 86, Windows 95 (Please, correct my spelling if I
   misspelled Tsjernobyl)" -- FTPPork@aol.com (Porker), 18 Aug 1998, (+)

2) "Ibelive by spooks he ment goverment agents not a racial slur so lay
   off." -- ILovToHack@aol.com, 31 Aug 1998, (+*)

3) "judy -- how about let's go shopping first and then watch the show
   remotely together????" -- Syniker@aol.com, 16 Jul 1998, (+)

4) "please i need some suggestions with topics for my informative speech,
   or may some infromative speeches already outlined to use it for
   refrence. thankyou." -- KMHAsfaha@aol.com, 17 Jul 1998, (*+)

5) "d" -- Saxgrim@aol.com, 18 Jul 1998, (*+)

6) "send me the book (e/mail me back" -- JackeI466@aol.com, 19 Jul 1998,
   (+*)

7) "Hello: My name is Enisa, I'm 13 years old. I write an online e-zine
   that for teens. We have over 150+ members. We just started a few days
   ago. We are looking for sponsors to sponsor our contests. These are
   some of the things we are able to do for you..." -- Craz8Grl@aol.com,
   20 Jul 1998, (+H)

8) "you got it?" -- LrdWill@aol.com, 20 Jul 1998, (+*)

9) "would love to see info re; international credit cards." --
   TTrump5646@aol.com, 21 Jul 1998, (+*)

10) "i would be very delighted if u gave me a free download for 5.0
    realplayer.if u would send it to mike111495@aol.com and
    indoe29c@aol.com we will be very honored to receive them. thankx and
    goodbye" -- Mike111495@aol.com, 22 Jul 1998, (+*)

11) [A bunch of asterisks and screaming] "I was recently informed from
    sorces who choose to remain annomous about a viri that uses macafe's
    update tool to detect when it is found then it modifys its code and
    forms a new strain of the virus this pattern continues although it has
    only been tested through a clone of macafees server to 100 mutations
    it looks like it could be a big problem I will inform you of any more
    information i learn about it but for now    "THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE""
    -- ILovToHack@aol.com, 22 Jul 1998, (+*)

12) "WHY CANT I FIND ANY WHITE AMERICAN YOUTH ALBUMS ANYWHERE?" --
    koitch@aol.com, 23 Jul 1998, (+*)

13) [Subject: Pipe bombs r better] "they rule!" -- Ant6menace@aol.com, 23
    Jul 1998, (+*)

14) "Actually, AOL, along with being an acceptable ISP with built in
    authentication of sender, has an easily used Mail interface.  (Even if
    it doesn't exactly follow the standards.)" -- MMerlynne@aol.com, 24
    Jul 1998, (+*), in response to #12.

15) "HELLO, IS THERE ANY WAY TO GET MY HANDS ON S BOOK THAT SHOWS THE REAL
    BASEBALL PEOPLE AUTOGRAPHS AND THE FAKES SO I KNOW WHAT TO LOOK FOR???
    PLEASE REPLY" -- AT666IND@aol.com, 25 Jul 1998, (+*)

16) "I am trying to find my brother, "Allen Thomas Taylor" I am not sure
    what year he was born but I think it was l922, l923.  We have the same
    Father[...]" -- CEr1942929@aol.com (Christine Ernest), 26 Jul 1998,
   (+)

17) "Hey:  Who made up the term "Politically Correct"?  Not Christians and
    not Republicans. Your side did.  How does wanting a smaller
   government, less taxes, the freedom to CHOOSE to pray in schools, the
   rights of the un-born( of[...] CHOKE ON IT YOU HYPOCRITE" --
   JBrown4330@aol.com, 27 Jul 1998, (+)

18) "do you have music vinyl stickers , if so , could i get them
    wholesale?" -- Babybee390@aol.com, 29 Jul 1998, (+*)

19) "I'm looking for Lynrd Skynrds Freebird  on a window sticker for my
    car.  Do you know where I can find one?" -- Vox9869@aol.com, 28 Jul
   1998, (+*)

20) "More!" -- CLCTCHR@aol.com, 29 Jul 1998, (+*)

21) "Can you do a 5 color process?  4x4".  Price on 500,1000,1500" --
    ELarson100@aol.com, 4 Aug 1998, (+*)

22) [Subject: whut up] "looking for a place to have some Band stickers
    made, can you email me a phone number so we can check out some
    prices.....thanks TIm" -- FRETELUCO@aol.com, 6 Aug 1998, (+*)

23) "Could you please send me the Anarchy Cookbook.....I really want it
    and I cant find it anywhere! Thanx for your help.. Mike Jonhson" --
    XoVoX123@aol.com, 9 Aug 1998, (+*)

24) [Subject: .] "" (Yes, nothing.) -- EpicTeU@aol.com, 9 Aug 1998, (+*)

25) "Come on thake it easy on the guy at least he aint on AOL or somthing
    stuped." -- ILovToHack@aol.com, 13 Aug 1998, ()

26) [Subject: Subject: LOL. Made me look] "" (Yes, nothing.) --
    Seabiner@aol.com, 14 Aug 1998, (+*)

27) "about: Hello, I am trying to start a VB 32 bit code bank you can send
    any code you want to exept codes for aol addons...  . 1nce a week most
    likely on fridays I will check the hotmail account specifyed below and
    I will take all the codes and put them in a txt file and send it to
    everyone who sent a code in since I am [...] To send Codes for the ML
    Send E-mail to VB32Coders@Hotmail.com In the sbject field write
    anonymous / Code topic if you don't want your E-Mail address to show
    up when I send the Codes out or else just type the topic of the code
    you are sending.. ." -- EpicTeU@aol.com, 14 Aug 1998, (+)

28) "Because the American Justice system is screwed up royally... for
   instance - Kevin Mitnick... www.KevinMitnick.com" -- FTPPork@aol.com,
   17 Aug 1998, (+*)

29) "I am interested in travel between Knoxville, Tennessee  and Des
    Moines, Iowa. I would also be interested in Nashville, Tennessee and
    Des Moines, Iowa or Atlanta and Des Moines, Iowa.  Please notify me of
    specials in these markets. Thanks, Linda Tisue ltisue@aol.com" --
    Ltisue@aol.com, 18 Aug 1998, (+*)

30) "I am looking to distribute a product and I was wondering if you can
    tell me how to get mass e mail addresses. I look forward to hearing
    from you." -- LHilley488@aol.com, 19 Aug 1998, (+*)

31) "Send me info on how to make a pipe bomb. HoppyF1315" --
    HOPPYF1215@aol.com (Hoppy Head), 19 Aug 1998, (+*)

32) "I take that statement as an insult, and it really isn't true about
    all of us AOL users. [...] Actually, some of us know what real hacking
    is...[...] Anyway, try not to stereotype people so much, because, with
    the Advent of 32 bit AOL, we can actually use all of the TCP/IP
    protocols, etc..." -- FTPPork@aol.com, 20 Aug 1998, (+)

33) [Subject: anarchy cookbook] "Is any one home?" -- Spazherp@aol.com, 21
    Aug 1998, (+*)

34) "I did not say anywhere that 32 bit would fix problems of cluelessness
    - or ignorance in your case.  I said, it is a little better because we
   can now use TCP/IP protocols.  Did I ever say that the people on AOL
   were smarter because of it?  Well, let's go read over that post - - -
   nope... I didn't.  I think some people should read a little more
   carefully, or just don't read at all." -- FTPPork@aol.com, 22 Aug 1998,
   (+*) (As I recall, this one was in response to a set of flames which
   cited his assertion in #32.)

35) [Subject: can you help me make virses please tell me who to make one
    step by step] "I need help i want to know how to make a virses in
    c\c++ please help me." -- VXF32@aol.com, 21 Aug 1998, (+*)

36) "Tell me how to get tons of free stuff!  Thank You ." --
    RAGOD5597@aol.com, 21 Aug 1998, (+*)

37) "Here we go again" -- FTPPork@aol.com, 22 Aug 1998, (+*)

38) [Subject: tell me] "hola and good tidings send some info on spooks
    please i will be grateful" -- RyanFord@aol.com, 29 Aug 1998, (+*)

39) [Subject: h] "how did u do it" -- CRBREW9802@aol.com, 7 Sep 1998, (+*)

40) " HaCkaZ OnlY Da EliTeHelLO YaLL DiS is Da MaDD AAOOLL HaCka Ima
    startin a GreWp fOR HaCs Only So In OthA WerDS yA gOttA KnOw The WAreZ
    anD HoW toO UsEr FaTe AnD AOL So MaIl Or Im Me FoR Da TeTaIls If YeR
    LeeTo K Pe@CE FrOmE The LeeTs HacKJeFFrO)" -- Jrjeffro@aol.com, 9 Sep
    1998, (+*)

41) Message quoting the above, which wasn't originally sent to the list,
    in "<< >>" style, adding only: "What the hell is this? No wonder why
    AOLers have a bad name Im going to Flame this guy" -- EpicTeU@aol.com,
    10 Sep 1998, (+*)

42) "Preach on brother =)" -- AIMSX@aol.com, 15 Sep 1998, (+*), copied to
    25 other recipients, plus the list.

43) "I read that book" -- AIMSX@aol.com, 15 Sep 1998, (+*)

44) "All Creatures Great and Small - that one... =) I also read an Aasimov
    a while back in fifth grade - unfortunately, I can't remember even the
    name... I need to pick some of his books up again... One book I can
    remember reading since 5th grade (and every summer thereafter) is "IT"
    by Stephen King - one of his few really good books.  I have read it 8
    times since. I greatly recommend it =)" -- AIMSX@aol.com, 15 Sep 1998,
    (+*)

45) "We are sending you an invitation to be one of our special guests this
    year, big harry ass lawsuits are always of interest.  Bring a friend
    if you like, but I have to warn you, Liberatarians are not welcome.
    This years menu includes red meat and poptarts.  Clothing is optional.
    Sincerely, Beth" -- BUFFU@aol.com, 17 Jul 1998, (+*)

46) "That's why I suggest listening to I Robot by Alan Parson's Project."
    -- StanSqncrs@aol.com, 18 Jul 1998, (+*)

47) "If sombody offers you some FedGov, just say NO!" --
    Nilsphone@aol.com, 23 Jul 1998, (), copied to 32 recipients, including
    the list.

Note the "+" ratings on the below. (Semi-)Clueful postings from AOL:

1) "It's the easy way out (and I mean DOWN and OUT)!  I mean, if we're
   simply going to change them out everytime, why bother to figure out
   which ones a going to change them out everytime, why bother to figure
   out which ones aren't evil/stupid (I mean, out of all those
   politicians, there's got to be 1 or 2! I think. ;-) )? See, if we just
   simply change politicians at every chance, then we throw the baby out
   with the bathwater, so to speak.  The simple solutions aren't always
   the best ones." -- StanSqncrs@aol.com, 17 Jul 1998, (+*)

2) "ROFLOL!  What's coincidental?  The latest tune that my band, Nobody's
   Business (in which I play bass and sing) has learned, is Cheap
   Sunglasses by ZZ Top. If it ain't coinicidence, I got a 'scarecrow' in
   my band. " -- StanSqncrs@aol.com, 18 Jul 1998, (+)

3) [Subject: Subject: Nomination of Lyndon Larouche to the UNITED NATIONS
   OF THE FRINGE] "Hey Punks, As a United Nations OF the Cyber Fringe
   Member,  I am asking for your input on giving Lyndon a nomination.  So
   far his war crimes only include[...]" -- BUFFU@aol.com, 20 Jul 1998,
   (+)

4) "If you would like information about tempest monitors, computers,
   printers or secure fax machines, please contact me." --
   CompSec01@aol.com (Karen Azoff), 22 Jul 1998, (+)

I gave up at this point because the clueless list just kept growing. The
ratio isn't encouraging, especially since I was being generous with what
is considered a "clueful post."





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 20:04:06 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: It's finally over (was Re: Explanation of Harald Fragner and  cyph
Message-ID: <199809170105.DAA24665@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> > And thanks, but we have enough magazine subscriptions already.  :)
> > 
> > Mark
> > 
> > Bart Troyan wrote:
> > > 
> > > The real-world analogy would be for me and all my friends to get a bunch of
> > > magazines, rip out all those postage-paid subscription flaps, and fill out
> > > your name and address on each of them, then you'd have unwanted trial
> > > subscriptions to lots and lots of magazines.
> > > 
> > > hmmmm...
> > > MacroView
> > > 90 William Street, Suite 301
> > > New York, NY 10038
> > > 
> > > Wouldn't that suck?  Can you imagine if 1000 people did that to you all the
> > > same day?  (this is *not* a threat, just an example).  You'd have bags and
> > > bags of zines and bills coming in daily...

This sounds like a plan. In fact, we can do this for all spam
domains. Interested, Tim?

Registrant:
MacroView (SIXDEGREES-DOM)
   90 William Street, Suite
   301
   New York, NY 10038

   Domain Name: SIXDEGREES.COM





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mixmaster 
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 06:38:47 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <85276ff4386bf1b830fc58b635f7aaa0@anonymous>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



looking around on various crypto sites I can't find any hashes ported to dos/win that are already compiled is anyone out there aware of a place with a copy o MD5 or SHA1 and my second question,  I was also curious about PGP.  In the latest version (cyberknights build) You can use 8kbits DH key or a 16Kbits RSA key,  In my reasoning I would think that since DH was out before RSA and RSA was chosen for the first releases of PGP why switch to DH now, if it was better why not start out using that?




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 07:10:31 +0800
To: Tim May 
Subject: Re: A personal response to your email to sixdegrees
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Better yet, give anyone on the mailing list a veto over their new
membership. Send a cookie to the address that was signed up, and an
anti-cookie. If anyone returns the anti-cookie, in effect saying "we don't
want to be part of your blasted service," put them on a list of
do-not-contact people for half a year or so.

That will minimise disruptions. It will also minimise disruptions to your
service when pissed-off vigilantes decide to take matters into their own
hands.

-Declan


On Wed, 16 Sep 1998, Tim May wrote:

> At 10:09 AM -0700 9/16/98, Declan McCullagh wrote:
> >Mark, trust me on this: remove all five cypherpunks addresses from your
> >lists.
> >
> >Really.
> >
> 
> As others have noted, operations like "sixdegrees" need to be very careful
> about how list addresses are signed up. This is a problem mailing lists
> (formerly called "list exploders," until Congress began to rant about
> Internet terrorists) have been dealing with for many years.
> 
> "Lists subscribed to lists," with resulting circularity problems, is
> something that can bring a list to standstill.
> 
> >From the dozens of irate messages about "sixdegrees," and the joking
> responses sent to "I hear you are my friend, but who are you?" queries seen
> from hapless "sixdegrees" clients, the meltdown may be underway.
> 
> There are concrete things you folks can do. When someone is nominated (or
> whatever) as a potential contact, you can ask the contactee if he or she
> wants this person to be a contact. In other words, take some of the
> automation out of the loop.
> 
> (Or add more of the right kind, such as sending a cookie or chit back to
> the parties and require them to forward the cookies back. This, of course,
> adds complexity for the "sixdegrees" customers and may actually cause many
> of them to just give up in frustration.)
> 
> If you do nothing, expect many of us to get more and more irate at the
> abuses your service are facillitating. I expect some of the list
> subscribers on lists your service "infects" will take the usual hackers
> measures to crash your system.
> 
> Not that I necessarily endorse this, but it's happened in the past.
> 
> --Tim May
> 
> (This space left blank pending determ. of acceptability to the gov't.)
> ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
> Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
> ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
> W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
> Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 22:28:06 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199809170324.FAA02439@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



"Electronic Security & Counterintelligence" must become pervasive, and this
is only possible if we release the private sector from artificial
constraints on encryption, and if we return to our democratic foundation,
the respect
for personal privacy. We cannot regulate this, we can only nurture this
fundamental national security arena.    

TAKEDOWN:
Targets, Tools, & Technocracy                                             
Robert David Steele
http://carlisle-www.army.mil/usassi/ssipubs/stratcon/steele.htm


Another excerpt: 

2.The greatest obstacle our government faces today in assuring national
security and national competitiveness-the cause of causes for conflict and
economic loss-is the growing gap between those with power and those with
knowledge. 








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Industry.net News" 
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 08:25:22 +0800
To: cypher 
Subject: Industry.net Announces Premium Membership
Message-ID: <19980917062002.000045@langly.emailpub.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



As an Industry.net member, you already know how convenient it is
to have one place to go for industry news, events, and sources of
supply. In addition to this free content, Industry.net recently
introduced Premium Membership, your gateway to engineering databases
in the exclusive Data Depot and even more technical resources in
the Reference Shelf. Sign up now and enjoy all the benefits of
Premium Membership for the low, introductory price of $19.95 per year.


Read on for more details or visit http://www.industry.net/pm-mktg/.

Data Depot
Industry.net's Data Depot is a gateway to comprehensive
technical industrial products and components information.

-  Make design and specification decisions using complete technical
   product descriptions with Industry.net's exclusive Industrial
   Catalogs at http://www.industry.net/pm-mktg/icdescription.htm.
   As a Premium Member, for only $37.95 per month, you can access
   catalogs from over 15,000 manufacturers and distributors of
   industrial products and services.  The Industrial Catalogs have
   been subject indexed and cross-referenced enabling you to quickly
   search and FIND the company or product you are interested in.

   Watch for future additions to Industry.net's Data Depot including
   online ordering of more than 200,000 technical standards,
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   parts.

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Industry.net's Reference Shelf provides fingertip access to many
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-  Make sure your technical documentation is in compliance with
   current industry standards with the online Drawing Requirements
   Manual.

-  Enjoy convenient, fingertip access to frequently used (but often
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-  Apply NASA technology to your commercial applications and product
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-  Stay abreast of changing federal and state safety and compliance
   regulations.

-  Catch up with previously published Industry.net information in our
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-  Keep pace with manufacturing technology with the Integrated
   Manufacturing Technologies Roadmap (IMTR).

-  More to come

Visit http://www.industry.net and get access to a world of information
at your fingertips!  In case you have forgotten your username, it is:
crads.

Would you like to participate in a focus group where we brainstorm
enhancements to Industry.net?  (send your response to
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(send your response to sales@industry.net and provide the name of your
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If you would rather not be notified about new features on Industry.net,
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Reply to this message or send e-mail to newsletter@info.industry.net
with the subject line: "unsubscribe industry.net-news".






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 23:23:51 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199809170420.GAA06902@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Run hands through hair. 
    Tighten clothing on each arm using the opposite hand. 
    Pull excess clothing around chest tight around chest, then pull
clothing forward. 
    Sweep back of hand through cleavage and under breasts. 
    Loosen belt and sweep fingers through belt-line front to back. 
    Use back of hand to sweep down zipper-line. 
    Search legs using hands making very slow movements. 
    Loosen shoes and sweep fingers through top of shoes.


The president?  No, the air force, searching personnel during
'Peace'.   

http://call.army.mil/call/trngqtr/tq2-99/hutton3.htm
and cars: http://call.army.mil/call/trngqtr/tq2-99/hutton2.htm








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 09:24:41 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: CDA II up for subcommittee vote today in House
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 07:23:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: Declan McCullagh 
To: politech@vorlon.mit.edu
Subject: CDA II up for subcommittee vote today in House




http://cgi.pathfinder.com/netly/0,2326,201980917-14617,00.html

Time Digital Daily
September 17, 1998

   Congress to Debate CDA II This Morning
   By Declan McCullagh (declan@well.com)

   It was one thing to vote for the Communications Decency Act, as
   Congress did before the Supreme Court ruled that it was violently
   unconstitutional. It's quite another to knowingly circumvent that
   ruling by voting for its successor, as a Congressional panel may do
   this morning. At 10 AM this morning a House Commerce subcommittee is
   scheduled to debate Rep. Mike Oxley (R-Ohio)'s CDA II, and free speech
   advocates are in a tizzy.

[...snip...]






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 06:47:52 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: IRS Spam on CJ
Message-ID: <199809171142.HAA13399@camel14.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

This is a follow-up to the IRS Jim Bell spam last year, the IRS
troll on CNN recently and other provocations.

Anybody get IRS or other spam/troll about CJ? If so, we'd like 
to see the message with full headers (ID omitted if you
like). Post here or send privately. Anon okay, probably
best. We'll share what we get.

If PGP preferred use the latest PK on the servers for 
, or any of the older ones.


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.5.3 for non-commercial use 

iQA/AwUBNgDz7YNEX855Nu9gEQIVcgCfRebUik5OdC0JDOZC0U7/C815I3cAniER
uOjU/6mmkkO/edw80+qMKnN8
=xEON
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "sixdegrees"<9kle5004@auto.sixdegrees.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 07:10:19 +0800
To: "monkeyboy cypher-prik"
Subject: Beste Megan
Message-ID: <199809171204.FAA04484@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Just a quick update from sixdegrees(tm). Unfortunately Beste 
Megan (mb6894a@american.edu) asked not to be listed as your 
contact with sixdegrees.

We also wanted to make sure you were aware that you currently 
have no other confirmed contacts, so it will be hard for you to
have a productive sixdegrees experience. As you probably know, 
without any confirmed contacts, you won't get any results from our 
networking searches. 

So, we just wanted to recommend that you head over to 
http://www.sixdegrees.com , log-in, and go to MY CONTACTS 
to list additional relationships. 


====================================================================
PLEASE NOTE: All replies to this address are processed by a computer.
If you have any problems, questions or requests send an e-mail to 
issues@sixdegrees.com and someone will get back to you as soon as 
possible.
====================================================================


E.DB.BRESP.3




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 07:54:31 +0800
To: cryptography@c2.net
Subject: Catchy.
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 08:51:14 -0400
X-Authentication-Warning: qnx.com: localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO
protocol
To: 0xdeadbeef@substance.abuse.blackdown.org
Subject: Catchy.
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 08:34:49 -0400
From: glen mccready 
Resent-From: 0xdeadbeef@substance.abuse.blackdown.org
X-Mailing-List: <0xdeadbeef@substance.abuse.blackdown.org> archive/latest/194
X-Loop: 0xdeadbeef@substance.abuse.blackdown.org
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: 0xdeadbeef-request@substance.abuse.blackdown.org


Forwarded-by: nev@bostic.com
Forwarded-by: Kirk McKusick 
From: Rick Kawala 

I was with a friend in Cafe Flore the other night and I had to ask the
counterperson what was playing on the stereo. Sort of techno but with
vocals on some tracks, minorish key, really great.  Anyway, the CD arrived
and track 10 is called "PGP". And yes, they're talking about *that* PGP.
My God, an ode to data privacy. This computer thing is getting out of
hand. :)
		Rick

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Soren 
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 07:50:01 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: It's finally over (was Re: Explanation of Harald Fragner and  cypherpunks)
In-Reply-To: <199809170055.UAA28232@domains.invweb.net>
Message-ID: <360106B9.A408FF26@workmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





William H. Geiger III wrote:

> ... How does Thwart, Verisign, or the other CA's handle authentication of
> an
> e-mail address in there low level certs?

You generate a key pair on your machine (Netscape keygen tag or MS
CrappyApi.  The public key + other self-referential materiel is sent to
Thawte/Verisign et al (actually I like Thwart better).  This is via broken
PKCS#10 for MS, or proprietary SPKAC for Netscape (ever wondered why there
are multiple buttons for your browser type?).  They then send you a
reference number via email. You cut and paste the number back onto their
site.  A PKCS#7 mimetype is downloaded, causing your browser to grab and
stash your new cert. Netscape stores the key in its own special way, and the
cert in a PKCS#12 format.  MS stores both in PKCS#12 format, which is rather
easy to hack.

If I was to request a cert from Thawte (the only really useful global, free,
full strength one), and specify cyphers@punks.net (a well known interneting
list) as my email address, then the email would be available to all
subscribers of the list.  Certs being public, this is not a problem.  The
crucial part being that the private key I originally generated, matching the
public key in the cert, remains on my machine. I.e. I am the only one who
can decrypt stuff encrypted with the cert's public key.  This is an
interesting way of receiving encrypted mail (pseudo-)anonymously.  Expect to
see a rash of Thawte "collect your new cert" emails, followed by much
encrypted mail that only one list subscriber has the wherewithal to
decrypt.  Another alternative is to distribute the private key to selected
buddies on the list, to provide a shared cert.

Netscape specific: Migrating use of a cert requires an email to yourself
that you will receive on your new machine, after copying the key*.db files
and/or *.p12 files to the netscape/.../users dir, and importing it.

As to how sexdegrees.com could use this technology ... this would require
some degree of know-how which would probably preclude signing up in the
first place.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Soren 
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 08:12:35 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Democracy...
In-Reply-To: <35FF220A.F88B87F6@hempseed.com>
Message-ID: <36010BFB.E13E264B@workmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





Jaeger wrote:

> I reply to this message going point by point, within the original
> text...  so scroll down if you care to read what I wrote..
>
> > AI recently saw a posting about right v. wrong or good v. evil. These
> > are subjective terms as any good semanticist knows. But what is real
>
> Neither good nor evil is subjective to anything...  if something is
> absolutely evil, then there is nothing that will make it good...  (and
> vice versa )
>

IYHO.  You've got to admire these great leaps of intuition. Now if we could
only harness them to constructive acts instead of coercive?




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: User of DOOM 
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 02:31:28 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Predictions: Crime and Criminal Justice in the 21st Century
Message-ID: <199809170730.JAA08534@rogue.seclab.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Predictions: Crime and Criminal Justice in the 21st Century

1.	The United States will experience a significant economic 
recession/crisis very close to the turn of the Century.

2.	As the large pool of young people born in the early 1990s 
become teenagers and young adults, there will be a dramatic 
increase in violent crime around the year 2005-2010.

3.	America will experience sporadic civil disorders/riots in 
many of its urban areas during the next 10-15 years -- much of it 
related to racial/ethnic problems.

4.	Terrorist acts by "fringe"/special issue groups will 
increase at a significant rate -- becoming a major law enforcement 
and security problem.

5.	As faith in the criminal justice system declines, there 
will be a rise in vigilante-based incidents where citizens take 
the enforcement of crime problems into their own hands.

6.	Much of middle- and upper-class America will take a 
"retreatist" attitude and move into private high-security 
communities located in suburban or rural areas. Because of 
technological advances, many companies and corporations will also 
move out of the urban environments as well.

7.	Due to many of the predictions listed above, much of law 
enforcement and security in the 21st Century will become 
privatized and contractual. Traditional law enforcement agencies 
will primarily serve urban and rural communities.

8.	Law enforcement will evolve into two major and divergent 
roles: traditional law enforcement and a more specialized 
military tactical role to deal with the growing urban violance 
and terrorist incidents.

9.	Significant violence and unrest will plague our nation's 
prisons. Major prison riots will become a regular occurrence.

10.	With the decrease of the possibility of major global 
warfare, the United States military will take on an increased 
domestic "peace-keeping" role with America's law enforcement 
agencies.





John Young wrote:
> 
> Tim asks:
> 
> >Freeh and Company continue to mumble about "meeting
> >the legitmate needs of law enforcement." What can they
> >be speaking of?
> ...
> >Obviously his side is contemplating domestic crypto restrictions.
> 
> Threat of terrorism will be the impetus for applying national security
> restrictions domestically, for relaxing cold war limitations on spying
> on Americans, for dissolving barriers between law enforcement
> and military/intelligence agencies.
> 
> Technical means for access to encrypted data will probably
> come first in communications, then to stored material. There
> will be an agreement for increased CALEA wiretap funding, which
> is what the two cellular and wired suits against the FBI intend,
> (paralleling what the hardware and software industries want from
> federal buyers of security products).
> 
> This will provide the infrastructural regime for the gov to monitor
> and store domestic traffic as NSA does for the global, using the
> same technology (NSA may provide service to domestic
> LEA as it now does for other gov customers for intel).
> 
> Other access will come through hardware and software for
> computers, paralleling technology developed for telecomm tapping,
> tracking and monitoring.
> 
> Most probably through overt/covert features of microprocessors
> and OS's, as reported recently of Wintel and others, but also
> probably with special chips for DSP and software for modular
> design -- why build from scratch when these handy kits are
> available.
> 
> As noted here, the features will appear first as optional, in response
> to demand from commerce, from parents, from responsible
> institutions, to meet public calls for protection, for privacy, for
> combating threats to the American people.
> 
> Like wiretap law, use of the features for preventative snooping will
> initially require a court order, as provided in several of the crypto
> legislative proposals.
> 
> Like the wiretap orders, gradually there will be no secret court refusals
> for requests to use the technology in the national interest.
> 
> A publicity campain will proclaims that citizens with nothing to hide
> will have nothing to fear. Assurance of safety will be transparent,
> no clicks on the line. In a digital world, home-office devices will send
> lifestyle data to the device manufacturers over the always monitoring
> transparental Net.
> 
> Personal privacy will evaporate almost unnoticeably, as with the tv
> remote control, cp/defcon/bar brag, telephone, fax and forever-lovers
> pillowtalk.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Richard.Bragg@ssa.co.uk
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 04:19:11 +0800
To: mmotyka@lsil.com
Subject: Re: Democracy...
Message-ID: <80256682.00312692.00@seunt002e.ssa.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain








mmotyka@lsil.com on 16/09/98 20:02:22

Please respond to mmotyka@lsil.com

To:   Richard Bragg/UK/SSA_EUROPE
cc:   cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject:  Re: Democracy...




>> However, if you believe in something to be life changing and
>> beneficial to both the >individual and society you'll want or be
>> compelled to "pass it on".
>
>Altruistic on the surface. Regarding religion though, why do I always
>get the feeling that when implemented and empowered it is judgemental
>and intolerant of those who do not fall properly in line?
>
Because religion is dead.  It is a set of man made rules interpreting
what God has said.  I do not want to live in a "religious" society any
more than you do.  Theocracy (rule by the church, small "c") is never
a good idea.  Deocracy??? (rule by God) is.  God has already given us
His instructions for healthy life and society.  Most of our laws are
based on them but we keep weakening them to account for our own failings
and desires.

>> What I wanted to illustrate is that there are absolutes, to say there
>> are no obsolutes is in itself an absolute and so is self defeating.
>
>All right Mr. Logic, you're so sharp, give me ONE example of a *moral*
>absolute.
>
It is wrong to abuse children.  I reckon this is built in to just about
all of us.  It is in our nature to protect and defend our children.  No
matter where your are in the world this applies.  Our differing cultures
make some things acceptable to one and not to others but the underlying
nature is still there.  Also we may differ how we accomplish this.

>> We must have absolutes.
>>
>We do: speed of light, mass of the electron, probably, but behavior? We
>have behaviors that facilitate our persistance and propagation as a
>species at ever increasing densities. Operating outside the boundaries
>is neither right nor wrong, simply different. Not necessarily without
>consequences, but simply different. Your yardstick is an hallucination
>to which you cling to forlornly like a kitten clinging to a stick in a
>raging river.
>
>Mike
>
>ps - is 'forlornly' really a word? I think so, but it looks odd today.

Actually the speed of light varies depending on the medium and the mass of
an electron with its velocity.  You may deride my
absolutes but if applied by all we would have no crime, no divorce etc.
Boring??  Not really.  Many diseases and social problems
would cease or be reduced.










From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 01:33:48 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: 128 bit or 40 bit?
In-Reply-To: <67ee9e3cc8499f9d72a11a2df56c48fe@anonymous>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980917102459.008c97e0@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 02:35 AM 9/17/98 +0900, Anonymous wrote:
>
>Being outside North America, I have an "export" version of 
>Internet Explorer/Netscape Navigator. These offer 40 bit 
>encryption. (40 bit RC4, I understand).
>
>
>My financial institution has a 128 bit Verisign certificate.
>To my surprise, they claim this offers 128 bit encryption to /me/.
>[in transactions to https://secure.mybank.com.xx]

Odd.  On the other hand, if your Netscape browser does have a 40-bit 
limitation problem, you can fix it by going to www.fortify.net.
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Bernardo B. Terrado" 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 22:26:23 +0800
To: Anonymous 
Subject: Re: Fwd: I don't care if this is real or not!
In-Reply-To: <199809161001.MAA18320@replay.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





On Wed, 16 Sep 1998, Anonymous wrote:

> You suck... Die prick, die

I second your motion (or is it second the motion, anyway I hate fwd mails
it only make my eyes sore).

> 
> 
> 
> Crack head  wrote:
> >
> > 
> > >Received: from 136.148.1.253 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP;
> > >	Tue, 15 Sep 1998 05:55:15 PDT
> > >X-Originating-IP: [136.148.1.253]
> > >From: "Dodwell Leung" 
> > >To: alexccl@hotmail.com, z2181727@student.unsw.edu.au, 
> > antonylam@hotmail.com, chonga@sbu.ac.uk,
> z2183890@student.unsw.edu.au, 
> > lcy@qms.ndirect.co.uk, z2155343@student.unsw.edu.au,
> bahrid@hotmail.com, 
> > daner@mail.mkv.mh.se, Evert.P.deVries@SI.shell.com, 
> > harold.tan@mailexcite.com, ivanyip@hotmail.com, catkoo@hotmail.com, 
> > jennyshek@hotmail.com, BKKsomporb@mail.nomura.com.hk, 
> > joe621@netvigator.com, heyloe@hotmail.com, kmyk@hotmail.com, 
> > kenjess@apanet.com.au, lawhon@hotmail.com, lfan@mail.uoknor.edu, 
> > 95481624J@hkpucc.polyu.edu.hk, shukai@netvigator.com, 
> > z2188635@student.unsw.edu.au, mattgow@hotmail.com, 
> > z2192026@student.unsw.edu.au, z2174314@student.unsw.edu.au, 
> > Steeve.Genot@wanadoo.fr, hsp996@hotmail.com, physpot@asiaonline.net, 
> > pixie_tan@hotmail.com, pooi_lee_chow@hotmail.com,
> eeyatir@hotmail.com, 
> > saralee@chevalier.net, patelsu@sbu.ac.uk, beetch@pacific.net.sg, 
> > z2188232@student.unsw.edu.au, simpsonngan@hotmail.com, 
> > yoon@pacific.net.sg, hamster.sol@lineone.net, stepcom@hkstar.com, 
> > ext3366@yahoo.com, tinyau1@netvigator.com,
> z2193851@student.unsw.edu.au, 
> > huvl@sbu.ac.uk, z2193612@student.unsw.edu.au, willmilk@hotmail.com, 
> > wswinnie@netvigator.com, brackeye@hkstar.com, takleung@wisdom.com.hk
> > >Subject: I don't care if this is real or not! But forwarding is not 
> > hard for me if I help
> > >Content-Type: text/plain
> > >Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 05:55:15 PDT
> > >
> > >
> > >>Received: from 202.184.46.2 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP;
> > >>	Tue, 15 Sep 1998 01:39:48 PDT
> > >>X-Originating-IP: [202.184.46.2]
> > >>From: "san san" 
> > >>To: alanling@usa.net, calviny@mol.net.my, chowpin@edb.gov.sg, 
> > >chan911@pc.jaring.my, gary_wang@hotmail.com, junifer@pl.jaring.my, 
> > >karren@deakin.edu.au, klay@okstate.edu, lkhoong@pc.jaring.my, 
> > >mcch@hotmail.com, murphy_l@hotmail.com, simfong@pl.jaring.my, 
> > >stchai@pl.jaring.my, mote@hotmail.com, tlliew@tm.net.my, 
> > >wthong@pl.jaring.my, dodwellleung@hotmail.com
> > >>Subject: Fwd: This is serious PLEEEEEEASE PLEASE DON'T DELETE!!!!!
> > >>Content-Type: text/plain
> > >>Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 01:39:48 PDT
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>Received: from 202.188.25.160 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP;
> > >>>	Mon, 14 Sep 1998 06:27:23 PDT
> > >>>X-Originating-IP: [202.188.25.160]
> > >>>From: "Lim Huey" 
> > >>>To: alexlimyk@hotmail.com, audrey.looi@mailexcite.com, 
> > >>kianwah19@hotmail.com, enyen@hotmail.com, s9812221@unitele.com.my, 
> > >>rckj@hotmail.com, seliness@hotmail.com, stanchow@tm.net.my, 
> > >>bhchua7@hotmail.com, csheng@rocketmail.com, yoongyow@hotmail.com, 
> > >>ching20@hotmail.com, lphoo@hotmail.com, ken_thong@rocketmail.com, 
> > >>twinsck@hotmail.com, poaysun@yahoo.com, mda97mk@sheffield.ac.uk, 
> > >>yongqiang13@hotmail.com, sammy_lee_79@hotmail.com, 
> > >>tungweileong@hotmail.com, lifesignx@yahoo.com, elim331@yahoo.com, 
> > >>lwloh@hotmail.com, audrey.looi@mailcity.com, sokyee@pc.jaring.my, 
> > >>kah_kit@hotmail.com, siewgar@hotmail.com, chiane@mailcity.com, 
> > >>Vvpenguin@hotmail.com, pkleong@hotmail.com, phangf@hotmail.com, 
> > >>rolandhii@hotmail.com, stjdanzel@hotmail.com,
> leesiehui@hotmail.com, 
> > >>jeennwei@hotmail.com, chouyong@hotmail.com, ttc1979@yahoo.com, 
> > >>guatyen@hotmail.com, chonkit@hotmail.com, thongyp@hotmail.com, 
> > >>soonfung@hotmail.com, tsueyyin@hotmail.com, feiyy@hotmail.com
> > >>>Subject: Fwd: This is serious PLEEEEEEASE PLEASE DON'T DELETE!!!!!
> > >>>Content-Type: text/plain
> > >>>Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 06:27:23 PDT
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 04:25:43 -0700 (PDT)
> > >>>>From: CHEW JUNN WENG 
> > >>>>Subject: This is serious PLEEEEEEASE PLEASE DON'T DELETE!!!!!
> > >>>>To: lmoonc@hotmail.com, pvcheo@essex.ac.uk, cwnsim@essex.ac.uk,
> > >>>>  yoongyow@hotmail.com, lenelene@hotmail.com,
> gcping38@mailcity.com,
> > >>>>  gthong@rocketmail.com, ching20@hotmail.com, 
> > lcchuan@rocketmail.com,
> > >>>>  moon@tm.net.my, shaohuey@hotmail.com, janelsl@tm.net.my,
> > >>>>  csheng@rocketmail.com, hwooi@yahoo.com, dianacn@hotmail.com,
> > >>>>  stjdanzel@hotmail.com, effyjungle@hotmail.com, 
> > >bus_tard@hotmail.com,
> > >>>>  lphoo@hotmail.com, yakasaki@hotmail.com, colint79@hotmail.com
> > >>>>Cc: anniesia@hotmail.com, pearlng@hotmail.com,
> liangser@hotmail.com,
> > >>>>  choopar@hotmail.com
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>Hello, my name is David "Darren" Bucklew. I live in 
> > >>>>Pittsburgh PA where I attend Bethel Park High School
> > >>>>and participate in  many sports.  I have severe
> > >>>>ostriopliosis of the liver. (My liver is extremely 
> > >>>>inflamed).
> > >>>>Modern Science has yet to find a cure.  Valley
> > >>>>Childrens hospital 
> > >>>>> has agreed to donate  7 cents to the National
> > >>>>Diesese Society for every name 
> > >>>> on  this letter.Please send it around as much as you
> > >>>>can.
> > >>>>Thank you,
> > >>>>Darren
> > >>>>
> > >>>>PS: For those of you who dont take 5 minutes to do 
> > >>>>this, what goes around comes around. You can help
> > >>>>sick people, and it costs you nothing,yet you are too
> > >>>>lazy to do it?  You will get what you deserve. 
> > >>>>
> > >>>>_________________________________________________________
> > >>>>DO YOU YAHOO!?
> > >>>>Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>______________________________________________________
> > >>>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>______________________________________________________
> > >>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> > >
> > >
> > >______________________________________________________
> > >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> > 
> > 
> > ______________________________________________________
> > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> > 
> > 
> 
> ==
> "The same thing we do every night Pinkey,
>  try to take over the WORLD!"
>                           - The brain
> _________________________________________________________
> DO YOU YAHOO!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
> 
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "X" 
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 12:30:56 +0800
To: 
Subject: RE: Your new password
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <000201bde25f$fa59c6c0$942580d0@ibm>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



The only thing that would be worse, and definitely should NOT be carried out
by a cypherpunk, is if someone tracked down a certain list like
srbeanies@interhop.net and somehow listed the sixdegrees as a friend.

Seriously, don't even think of torturing those poor 2000 beaniebaby traders
with a gag like this.

X

-----Original Message-----
From:	owner-cypherpunks@minder.net [mailto:owner-cypherpunks@minder.net] On
Behalf Of Lazlo Toth
Sent:	Wednesday, September 16, 1998 7:29 PM
To:	cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject:	Re: Your new password

I predict that naughty cypherpunks will use these passwords to repeatedly
add the following names to "Schlomo"'s list of contacts:

mark@sixdegrees.com
webmaster@sixdegrees.com
postmaster@sixdegrees.com
issues@sixdegrees.com

If that doesn't work, really naughty cypherpunks may also add the addresses
of prominent journalists.

Of course, those things would be WRONG.

-Lazlo


>Name: Schlomo CyberPoopy
>sixdegrees password: linkcusp
>
>Congratulations Schlomo. You're well on your way to
>becoming a full sixdegrees(tm) member. Here is your member
>password: linkcusp. Use it to log-in on the home page
>at the sixdegrees Web site, http://www.sixdegrees.com.
>We'll ask you for a little more information to complete your
>registration, and then you'll be ready to start networking.
>
>It's important that you return to the site and log-in. Your
>membership will not be complete until you do so.
>
>Once you've successfully logged in with your password, just go
>to Personal Profile and you'll be able to choose your own
>password.
>
>Thanks for becoming part of sixdegrees. We're looking forward
>to seeing you at the site.
>
>====================================================================
>PLEASE NOTE: All replies to this address are processed by a computer.
>If you believe you received this e-mail in error, and it was not your
>intention to become a sixdegrees member, or if you have any problems,
>questions or requests send an e-mail to issues@sixdegrees.com
>and someone will get back to you as soon as possible.
>====================================================================
>
>
>E.SI.BAM.1





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 13:29:42 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: RE: Democracy... (fwd)
Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A192846AD@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




> Atheism means that one believes that there is no God.

You trying to claim atheism is a religion itself is like the christians
always claiming non-christians are satin worshippers. Forget about the
origination of the word, in today's reality most atheists simply forgo
religion completely.

There is no reason to think that a god does exist, so why would one even
need to think about or believe in the negative.

> Ah, so there are personal beliefs that aren't religion and 
> then there are personal beliefs that are?

Yes, beliefs based on valid reason, empiricism and science are not
religious, the generally follow the path from conjecture to theory to
fact. You may hold lots of personal conjecture that do qualify as
beliefs but are not religious in nature, they are not exempt from
empirical evidence and the laws of thermodynamics. Beliefs based on
faith and mysticism are religious. Religion is irrational.

> What a self-rightous, pretentious,  egotistical viewpoint.

Thank you.

> Actualy not, the vast majority of people believe in God, just not your
> particular brand - which after all is what the 1st is all about.

Perhaps in Bible-belt Texas, not around here (not in the city anyway).

	Matt




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "X" 
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 12:31:02 +0800
To: 
Subject: RE: software
In-Reply-To: <63f88dc4.36006a60@aol.com>
Message-ID: <000301bde260$d04bac80$942580d0@ibm>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



AOL.  It had to, HAD to be AOL.

Okay, here goes:  Radio Shack sells an electromagnetic PCMCIA card that you
slip in your computer, juice it up, and it will encrypt everything for free,
to the extent that it will be unrecoverable by even the NSA.

I think they're about three dollars American.

Give it a shot.  (Fridge magnets placed directly on the hard drive can help,
but it's a long shot.)

X

-----Original Message-----
From:	owner-cypherpunks@minder.net [mailto:owner-cypherpunks@minder.net] On
Behalf Of CHerr58414@aol.com
Sent:	Wednesday, September 16, 1998 7:48 PM
To:	cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject:	software

if u got any freeware for encripting and decodeing that would be great so if
you can mail me back some info. Thanks





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 13:56:12 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: Mobile phone tracking, pagers, etc
Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A192846AF@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Regarding the tracking of mobile phones, are all current types of phones
susceptible?

There was a recent post here regarding tracking of GSM phones.
TDMA/CDMA, analog/digital, PCS-band, etc, are they all equally capable
of being tracked?

However pagers are not, correct? They just broadcast an entire area to
page instead of the pager keeping the network informed of their
location.

One thing I have long wondered: Why don't they make phones that
"wake-up" by a paging signal and then accept the call? It might increase
the connect time significantly, but it would also increase the potential
stand-by time indefinitely, and the location of the user is only exposed
when calls are in progress, not while the phone is on stand-by.

Are there any paging services (particularly alpha paging) that work on a
global scale? You would think daily pager rental service (esp. at
airports) would be popular. You could have an email address, even a
static phone number, that could re-route messages to any pager that you
happen to have at the time (PSTN-IP-PSTN, or even easier if the pager
service gives SMTP addresses, which most do these days).

Similarly a PSTN-IP-PSTN interface for voice could give you a static
phone number that you could dynamically forward anywhere untraceably.

BTW, why are most businesses so hostile to pseudonyms? I go to rent a
mailbox, paid 1 yr. in advance with cash, and they still want two pieces
of photo ID to copy.

	Matt




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Bernardo B. Terrado" 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 23:08:10 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: PGP again....
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I've tried looking for PGP and found many.
All are  platforms for  IBM PC's (using ms dos, windows).

Is there one  for Sun Sparc and the likes or I'll just run the PGP for
PC's in my Sparc (using unix or PC's using unix).

(forgive me for my lack of info about PGP and platforms).













~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Some people they might say that I'm hard to get to know.
I go my own sweet way, well that maybe so.
Something about the crowd that makes me walk alone. 
I never had a need in me to be the party's life and soul.

It's me Bernie.
metaphone@altavista.net
``````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Nina H. Fefferman" 
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 11:22:42 +0800
To: coderpunks@toad.com
Subject: Coding theory, cryptography, and number theory conference at USNA
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




	I'm probably the only person in the world who doesn't already 
know about this, but just in case, the URL is 
http://web.usna.navy.mil/~wdj/talk98_30.htm

				Nina
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Preliminary information on
Conference on Coding theory, Cryptology, and Number Theory

version 9-14-98

Place: USNA Math Dept

Time: October 25, 26 of 1998
Coding theory and crypology/number theory will be on
Sunday the 25th, including talks by
Carl Pomerance and Neil Sloane. More crypology/number theory
on Monday and then Prof Hilton
will speak Monday night the 26th.

Main speakers:

Peter Hilton, SUNY Binghamton (Oct 26th, 7-8pm)

Carl Pomerance, U Georgia (Oct 25th, noon?)

Neil Sloane, AT&T Research Labs (Oct 24th, 4-5pm?)

Other speakers will probably be local: Bill Wardlaw (USNA),
some speakers from NSA, etc.

All material will be unclassified. We will try to have midshipman
in attendence.

This conference is being supported by a generous
grant from the NSA.

--
David Joyner, Assoc Prof of Math
US Naval Academy, Annapolis, MD 21402
(410)293-6738
wdj@nadn.navy.mil
http://web.usna.navy.mil/~wdj/homepage.html
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"A Mathematician is a machine for turning
coffee into theorems." Alfred Renyi







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 15:03:30 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: RE: A personal response to your email to sixdegrees
Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A192846B6@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Declan McCullagh [mailto:declan@well.com] wrote:
> Better yet, give anyone on the mailing list a veto over their new
> membership. Send a cookie to the address that was signed up, and an
> anti-cookie. If anyone returns the anti-cookie, in effect 
> saying "we don't want to be part of your blasted service," put them 
> on a list of do-not-contact people for half a year or so.

An anti-cookie, I like it.

LISTSERV provides a cookie and makes you type "ok" in the body. Making
that "ok" or "cancel" and keeping the cookie active for a day or so
seems like it would be a really simple modification. One "cancel" of
course is over-riding and final.

Similarly for majordomo and other custom acknowledgement schemes.

	Matt


-----Original Message-----
From: Matthew James Gering [mailto:mgering@ecosystems.net] 

> ---Mark Salamon  wrote:
> >
> > Thanks for the reply.  I have now received about 10 such 
> > replies.  We will take them to heart, remove the cypherpunks 
> > and attempt to deal with the mailing list issue in an 
> > intelligent way.

Most lists and services have dealt with the problem of someone
accidentally subscribing or maliciously subscribing someone else in one
of two ways:

A) send and acknowledgement message with a randomly generated
authorization code that requires the user to respond.
B) send out a password and require the user to login before account is
activated.

This works only if you assume the malicious individual will not receive
mail sent to that address. This therefore falls down when the address is
a mailing list or other distribution point that the malicious individual
has access to directly or via archives.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Burnes 
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 13:59:25 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Cyberpunks Signal-to-Noise Ratio
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Far be it from me to complain about the content-free
nature of others postings, but has anyone else noticed
that the signal on cypherpunks is being lost in the noise?

jim






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Wolfgang Diemert 
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 06:05:24 +0800
To: fight-censorship@vorlon.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Child-Molesting Forger's Chilling Confession!!!1!
Message-ID: <199809171105.NAA17588@bkrzu6.bk.bosch.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: application/x-www-form-urlencoded

application/www-form-urlencoded


From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Jia Yan" 
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 00:16:04 +0800
To: "Bernardo B. Terrado" 
Subject: Re: PGP again....
Message-ID: <00b101bde1f9$da5b1330$e600005e@kenix_pdc.sz.utl.com.hk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



ftp://net-dist.mit.edu

-----Original Message-----
From: Bernardo B. Terrado 
To: cypherpunks@toad.com 
Date: Thursday, September 17, 1998 11:50 AM
Subject: PGP again....


>I've tried looking for PGP and found many.
>All are  platforms for  IBM PC's (using ms dos, windows).
>
>Is there one  for Sun Sparc and the likes or I'll just run the PGP for
>PC's in my Sparc (using unix or PC's using unix).
>
>(forgive me for my lack of info about PGP and platforms).
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~
>Some people they might say that I'm hard to get to know.
>I go my own sweet way, well that maybe so.
>Something about the crowd that makes me walk alone.
>I never had a need in me to be the party's life and soul.
>
>It's me Bernie.
>metaphone@altavista.net
>```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
```
>
>




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: jkthomson 
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 15:21:10 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980917131557.006c0a00@dowco.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





makes you wonder what hell they were using for encryption?  DES?


------------------------------

September 17, 1998 Web posted at: 11:16 AM EDT (1516 GMT)

MIAMI (AP) -- The shadowy world of a low-budget Cuban spy ring came to
light in a courtroom, where an FBI agent testified that a suspect's
apartment yielded computer diskettes containing coded references to Fidel
Castro and plans to sabotage an aircraft hangar.

Sounding more and more like a spy novel, details of the group's workings
were revealed in a hearing at which Luis Medina and Manuel Viramontez were
ordered held without bail Wednesday.

Thousands of pages of encrypted computer documents were seized from the
men's apartments.

The men were among 10 rounded up over the weekend and charged Monday with
trying to penetrate U.S. military bases, infiltrate anti-Castro exile
groups and manipulate U.S. media and political organizations. Prosecutors
said it was the biggest Cuban spy ring uncovered in the United States since
Castro took power in 1959.

However, the Pentagon said none of the alleged spies obtained U.S. secrets.

Evidence seized from Viramontez "analyzes the ability to sabotage or cause
damage to airplanes" or a Florida hangar itself," FBI agent Mark de Almeida
testified.

But the network was a low-budget affair, with a Cuban military captain who
lived under the alias Viramontez falling behind on his rent.

The Cuban government "indicated they were supposed to suffer like the rest
of the Cuban people," de Almeida testified in explaining their spartan
lifestyle.

He said diskettes seized from Viramontez' apartment were sprinkled with the
word "comrade" and coded references to "commandante," taken by
investigators to refer to Castro.

Before Viramontez was caught, he had three sets of false identities and
plans to escape to Mexico, Nicaragua or Canada, prosecutors allege. Medina,
said to be a Cuban intelligence major, was ready to flee with a briefcase
containing Puerto Rican identities, a fake birth certificate and $5,000 in
cash.

Eight defendants postponed their bail hearings Wednesday. All 10 were in
solitary confinement at a federal jail.

Viramontez's attorney Paul McKenna said the court, not public opinion, must
decide the case.

"You can't have a lynch mob mentality about this case," said McKenna. "We
have to let our system of justice, our courts, deal with this."

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
 james 'keith' thomson   www.bigfoot.com/~ceildh
 jkthomson:C181 991A 405C EAFB 2C46 79B5 B1DC DB78 8196 122D [06.07.98]
 ceildh   :1D79 59AF ED75 5945 6003 8240 DA34 ACCA 9DE4 6BC9 [05.14.98]
 ICQ:746241  at pgp.mit.edu     ...and former sysop of tnbnog BBS
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Murphy's Military Laws:
3. Friendly fire ain't.
=======================================================================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Alan Olsen 
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 00:49:24 +0800
To: Bill Stewart 
Subject: Re: DARPA Hires NetAss/TIS TO Develop Secure DNS
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980916190027.008d4dc0@idiom.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Wed, 16 Sep 1998, Bill Stewart wrote:

> 
> This is somewhat tacky.  SecureDNS exists, and TIS got export approval
> a while back to publish a "bones" version, minus encryption routines.
> John Gilmore and his lawyer decided that, since it only does authentication,
> not message encryption, it should be ok to publish _with_ the crypto
> algorithms, and it's been quietly sitting on his web pages.
> Recently the Feds sent him a letter saying "Oh, no, we didn't mean
> it was OK to publish/export this encryption-based authentication system
> just because the law says you can, so stop it"....
> Now they're paying for another version.  Are they going to try something
> DSS-based instead of RSA, just so you don't need encryption-capable
> crypto with it, or is this going to be another scam?
> Or is it just different parts of the Feds not talking to each other?

Maybe they suddenly felt the need to be able to backdoor DNS hijacking.
(Maybe the reason TIS is involved...)

alan@ctrl-alt-del.com | Note to AOL users: for a quick shortcut to reply
Alan Olsen            | to my mail, just hit the ctrl, alt and del keys.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 15:48:54 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: House panel OKs son-of-CDA (fwd)
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 13:48:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: Declan McCullagh 
To: politech@vorlon.mit.edu
Subject: House panel OKs son-of-CDA



http://cgi.pathfinder.com/time/daily/0,2960,14791-101980917,00.

Time Daily
Son of CDA
September 17, 1998
By Jonathan Gregg

   Who should decide what's fit for kids to see online? If Rep. Mike
   Oxley has his way, says TIME correspondent Declan McCullagh, it will
   be "any Bible Belt prosecutor who's itching to make a name for
   himself." Oxley is the sponsor of the Internet decency act that was
   approved by a House Commerce subcommittee Thursday -- a bill that
   bears a striking resemblance to the 1996 Communications Decency Act
   that got the bum's rush from the Supreme Court, 9-0, for being
   unconstitutional.

[...snip...]






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 13:50:30 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: Democracy... (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809171915.OAA15655@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: Matthew James Gering 
> Subject: RE: Democracy... (fwd)
> Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 11:29:00 -0700

> > Atheism means that one believes that there is no God.
> 
> You trying to claim atheism is a religion itself is like the christians
> always claiming non-christians are satin worshippers.

Actualy this is a straw man. Very few Christians claim Buddhist, Muslim,
etc. are satan worshipers, Satan is a Christian ephigy. What they *do*
claim is that those folks are worshipping false idols and as a result
won't gain access to heaven at death.

Vasty different than your claim.

> Forget about the
> origination of the word,

There's your first problem, your argument won't stand in the traditional
architecture of society so you want to try to get me to throw it away.
This causes all terms, ideas, etc. to become irrelevant in effect forcing
me to play from a vacuum. Won't do it. Though it's a nice ploy on your
part.

> in today's reality most atheists simply forgo
> religion completely.

A personal philosophy is a religion, different words but same idea. If your
thesis is that for something to be a religion it requires some sort of
social approval you miss the whole point. Even Jesus recognized that a
persons religion didn't rely on a 'church' and the implied infrastructure.
This is the reason he told his listeners to pray in a closet alone.

> There is no reason to think that a god does exist, so why would one even
> need to think about or believe in the negative.

There is no reason to believe one doesn't either. If we take your claim at
face value you need to demonstrate your test that shows the irrelevancy
of god. God is not a belief in a negative, another straw man, but rather
a mechanism or expression of human psychology and the need for humans to
find patterns (ie reason) in things.

> > Ah, so there are personal beliefs that aren't religion and 
> > then there are personal beliefs that are?
> 
> Yes, beliefs based on valid reason,

Ah, another of your mistakes. Religion and by extension faith are not
constrained by reason or logic. It's this realisation that puts some
issues and aspect of human inquiry outside of the reach of science, logic,
etc.

> empiricism and science are not
> religious, the generally follow the path from conjecture to theory to
> fact.

If you're a pantheist they're the only religion (aka personal philosophy)
you've got. Shortcomings in your imagination are not a reflection upon the
rest of the cosmos.

> You may hold lots of personal conjecture that do qualify as
> beliefs but are not religious in nature, they are not exempt from
> empirical evidence and the laws of thermodynamics. Beliefs based on
> faith and mysticism are religious. Religion is irrational.

No, only some religions are irrational. The point you're missing is not
one of rationality or irrationality but rather transcendance.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mixmaster 
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 16:33:11 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Wednesday, September 16, 1998 - 20:16:25

I'm trying not to be paranoid or anything, but 
the thing is, ... where the heck is everybody??!!

Nomad        




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 13:41:17 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: SecDef on Crypto, Privacy
Message-ID: <199809171833.OAA01552@camel14.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Excerpt from DoD transcription of Secretary of Defense Cohen's
remarks at the Council on Foreign Relations, New York City, 
September 14, 1998:

[Begin]

Let me say one other thing about terrorism.  We in this country 
much recognize the tension which will exist as you ask us, and 
we will ask all successor administrations, to protect us.  And 
you say, how do you protect someone against terrorists?  It means 
increased intelligence.  It means increased intelligence, having 
greater capability on the ground or from national technical 
sources to find out who is planning and plotting what at what 
place and what time.  

To do that is going to put us in somewhat of a direct conflict 
with rights to privacy, something that we hold very dear in this 
country.  So the more intelligence-gathering responsibilities that 
any administration is going to have, there's going to come a point 
of tension and, indeed, friction between how much are you willing 
to give up in order to be secure.  Those are the kind of unpleasant 
choices that are going to be manifesting themselves in the near 
future.  We haven't really faced up to it yet.  We're starting to 
see some of that conflict at least intellectually develop when you 
see the manufacturers of software who don't like the fact that the 
law enforcement, the FBI, the Justice Department wants to have some 
method of getting into encrypted technology. 
 
You say, "Wait a minute, that's my right of privacy.  I'm a 
businessman or woman.  I want to be able to send information out 
over those -- those airwaves and have them completely protected."  
Our Justice Department says, "Wait a minute, you want us to protect 
you.  But you're allowing criminal elements, terrorists and others
 -- organized crime, drug cartels -- to encrypt their 
telecommunications to the point where don't know what's going on.  
And then something is going to happen, and you'll say, where were you?"

So those are the kinds of tensions that are going to continue to exist.  
But we're going to have to have more intelligence to effectively deal 
with terrorism in the future.  

[End excerpt]

Full transcript:

   http://jya.com/wsc091498.htm  (49K)




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 16:44:46 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: RE: Democracy... (fwd)
Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A192846BB@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> > Forget about the origination of the word,
> 
> There's your first problem, your argument won't stand in the 

No, there is a strict difference between the defining a word and
defining a philosophy coined after that word. Certainly Marxism,
Leninism and Stalinism all claimed to be Communism, regardless of how
much or little resemblance they bear to a strict definition of the word
communism.

> A personal philosophy is a religion, different words 
> but same idea.

> Religion and by extension faith are not
> constrained by reason or logic.

How do you account for this contradiction. I hold a personal philosophy
that is strictly and absolutely constrained by reason and logic.

> > There is no reason to think that a god does exist, so why 
> > would one even need to think about or believe in the negative.
> 
> There is no reason to believe one doesn't either.

Do you believe in THE FORCE, as described by the great prophet George
Lucas?

If you say "Yes," am I to claim that is your *religious* belief, not
subject to reason, logic or empirical evidence? If you say "No," am I to
assume that is your *religious* belief, not subject to reason, logic or
empirical evidence?

I hold no *religious* beliefs, PERIOD.

You seem to be unable to grasp that concept.

If thinking that everyone holds a religion, even religiously not holding
one(?!), is a way for you to escape rational judgement on your own
ideas, then so be it, discussion on the topic is no longer useful as
this is obviously part of your religious beliefs.

	Matt




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Marty Levy" 
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 08:54:19 +0800
To: cypherpunks cypherpunks 
Subject: British Police Attempt To Sidestep E-mail Protection
Message-ID: <36011300.6ED2C07E@email.sps.mot.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



British Police Attempt To Sidestep E-mail Protection

http://www.newsbytes.com/pubNews/118135.html

(09/16/98); 12:22 PM CST
By Steve Gold, Newsbytes
LONDON, ENGLAND,

 Steve Gold, Newsbytes. Newsbytes' sources have
 revealed that the Metropolitan Police have been
 holding a series of low-key discussions with
 major Internet service providers (ISPs) in the
 UK, aiming to streamline police access to e-mail
 and ISP user logs.

 According to one reliable source, the aim of the
 discussions is to develop a ground-breaking
 agreement between the police and ISPs so that,
 where the police have reasonable suspicion that
 an individual is sending or receiving e-mail, or
 downloading images that involve paedophilia,
 then they can formally request full details of
 the Internet user's mailbox and system logs, for
 example, from the ISP in question.

 While the aim of the project is to avoid the
 need for police to obtain a formal court order
 to access the ISP's computer systems, Newsbytes
 expects there to be a massive outcry from civil
 libertarian groups, since the police order could
 well be implemented against anyone with an
 account with a British ISP.

 Newsbytes understands that an expose on the
 police plans will be broadcast on Channel 4 news
 at 19:00 hours on British television this
 evening.

 Newsbytes' sources suggest that British ISPs are
 under immense pressure to comply with the police
 system since, if they do not comply and request
 a court order, the police could theoretically
 impound their computer systems, effectively
 putting an ISP out of action, and perhaps
 business, for an unknown period of time.

 "While I can understand the police wanting to
 gain access to Internet users' files who are
 accessing the Net for paedophile images, this
 does seem something of a steamroller approach,"
 said one industry source who spoke to Newsbytes
 after agreeing anonymity.

 Newsbytes notes that a major flaw exists in the
 British police's modus operandi for the proposed
 system, since the e-mail file servers for
 America Online (AOL) and CompuServe (AOL is the
 UK's largest ISP) are held in the US. Only the
 company's sales and support operations are
 located in the UK.

 "It will be interesting to see how the
 management of AOL and CompuServe in the US react
 to the news that they have to willingly hand
 over user logs and e-mail files to the British
 police," said the anonymous source.

 As has been proven by various cases in the US,
 the normal legal protection afforded postal and
 telephone communications by anti- wiretap
 legislation is not automatically extended to
 include e-mail.

 In the UK, it had been thought that the
 Interception of Communications Act might apply
 to e-mail, but the law relating to e-mail
 remains unproven, Newsbytes notes.

 Reported by Newsbytes News Network,
 http://www.newsbytes.com .

 12:22 CST

 (19980916/WIRES LEGAL, ONLINE/)

 Copyright (c) Post-Newsweek Business
 Information, Inc. All rights reserved.
 -----------------------------------------------------------





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 16:52:53 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: RE: Cyberpunks Signal-to-Noise Ratio
Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A192846BC@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



What! I can't hear you!

You could always filter *aol*, *anon* and *sixdegrees*.

Or shout louder (i.e. contribute signal).

	Matt

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Burnes [mailto:jvb@ssds.com]
> 
> Far be it from me to complain about the content-free
> nature of others postings, but has anyone else noticed
> that the signal on cypherpunks is being lost in the noise?




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bmccaffrey@executive.com
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 18:13:55 +0800
To: cypherpunks@sirius.infonex.com
Subject: RE: Cuban encryptors
Message-ID: <4CBEEB8C7D24D211971500A0C98F15BC02EE90@mail.executive.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Actually, it was RTF.

-----Original Message-----
From: jkthomson [mailto:jkthomson@bigfoot.com]


makes you wonder what hell they were using for encryption?  DES?


------------------------------

September 17, 1998 Web posted at: 11:16 AM EDT (1516 GMT)

MIAMI (AP) -- The shadowy world of a low-budget Cuban spy ring came to
light in a courtroom, where an FBI agent testified that a suspect's
apartment yielded computer diskettes containing coded references to
Fidel
Castro and plans to sabotage an aircraft hangar.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Asgaard 
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 08:22:07 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Harald Fragner
In-Reply-To: <199809161517.RAA08343@replay.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Wed, 16 Sep 1998, Anonymous wrote:

>I think Harald Fragner has to take you off the list.
>Talk to him about it.

I remember Harald Fragner from a lot of forums on
the Swedish Fidonet back in around 1991-1992. He was
a trusted technophile who had an answer to every single
IMB-PC related question (and most of his answers seemed
accurate).

A search has him now working for IDG Sweden, a publisher of
computer magazines, as head of it's computer department.

http://www1.idg.se/

harald.fragner@idg.se 

I'm sure that Harald could take anybody off any list but it's
questionable if he has the time, or feels like it. :-)


Asgaard




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Eric Cordian 
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 15:27:42 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: The DES Analytic Crack Project
Message-ID: <199809172029.PAA20063@wire.insync.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



We are pleased to report that we have obtained our first sponsor.  Two
more, and if everyone is agreeable, we have decided to launch the
project, and get through as much of the early stuff in the FAQ as
possible.
 
Numerous comments on our sponsorship model have indicated that people
want the project results to be widely disseminated, and that exclusive
access is not an incentive for people to sponsor.
 
So - unless we get a lot of people saying that this is not the case,
we will probably just release stuff on the Web site as it becomes
available, along with emailing it to sponsors, and posting summaries
of interesting results to Cypherpunks.

--  
Sponsor the DES Analytic Crack Project
http://www.cyberspace.org/~enoch/crakfaq.html
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Bernardo B. Terrado" 
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 03:33:29 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: cryptography and encryption
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Could I interchange them.
I know that the latter is under the former, but I'm still confused.

Hope you'll understand.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Some people they might say that I'm hard to get to know.
I go my own sweet way, well that maybe so.
Something about the crowd that makes me walk alone. 
I never had a need in me to be the party's life and soul.

It's me Bernie.
metaphone@altavista.net
``````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Bernardo B. Terrado" 
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 03:33:30 +0800
To: Jia Yan 
Subject: Re: PGP again....
In-Reply-To: <00b101bde1f9$da5b1330$e600005e@kenix_pdc.sz.utl.com.hk>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




On Thu, 17 Sep 1998, Jia Yan wrote:

> ftp://net-dist.mit.edu

It says permission denied the second time I've tried to enter.





> >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> ~~~
> >Some people they might say that I'm hard to get to know.
> >I go my own sweet way, well that maybe so.
> >Something about the crowd that makes me walk alone.
> >I never had a need in me to be the party's life and soul.
> >
> >It's me Bernie.
> >metaphone@altavista.net
> >```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
> ```
> >
> >
> 
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: AIMSX@aol.com
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 16:11:46 +0800
To: mah248@nyu.edu
Subject: Re: Larry Gilbert, AOLers, and the Hyper-real flamer
Message-ID: <491b5a5b.36017891@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Hmm, well, you were wrong about many things.
The ISP runs RH5.1

I don't use the passwd file for anything, as it is shadowed.

I don't work there.

I use 100 accounts because it is so easy to get all the new users, and the
changed passwords with the way they are set up, so why stop at one, and if
that one is disabled, I would like something to fall back on.  

You just don't understand anything about why I do what I do.  If you were
illegally using an account, would you want to ONLY have 1?  Why wouldn't you
want to know you had something to fall back on if that one is disabled?




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Greg Broiles 
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 19:15:23 +0800
To: mgraffam@mhv.net
Subject: Re: your mail
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980917131557.006c0a00@dowco.com>
Message-ID: <199809180022.RAA04718@ideath.parrhesia.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 05:28 PM 9/17/98 -0400, mgraffam@mhv.net wrote:

>Damn.. are cypherpunks the only people in the universe smart enough to use
>PGP?!?

And a lot of good it's done the two who've been busted so far .. doesn't
look like encryption is a serious obstacle to legitimate law enforcement to
me.


--
Greg Broiles        |History teaches that 'Trust us'
gbroiles@netbox.com |is no guarantee of due process.
                    |_Kasler v. Lundgren_, 98 CDOS 1581
                    |(March 4, 1998)




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 10:25:15 +0800
To: machita@gurlmail.com
Subject: Re: Nita Daniel
Message-ID: <199809171517.RAA22696@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Oh Nita baby, say it ain't so!  What about all that time in the Congo?
What about those wombat hunting trips on the aborigine plains?  What
about when we made sweet love in a pile of rhinoceros shit, your fecal
fetish winning me over to our true love.

What about when you swore you'd always be true, even as you were
pissing in my mouth?  Oh that acrid, bittersweet flavor of entrails running
through my loins, that ache of razor sharp knives piercing my rectum,
and you said you'd always be there for me baby!

Well fine!  If that's the way you want it, Nita, you parking meter, you
pimple on the face of a whore, you jubilant muskrat sharpener!  Go back
to your twinkie stuffing, you'll never see me again!

Hurting,
Joe Camel


At 11:15 PM 9/16/98 -0500, sixdegrees wrote:
>Just a quick update from sixdegrees(tm). Unfortunately Nita 
>Daniel (machita@gurlmail.com) asked not to be listed as your 
>contact with sixdegrees.
>
>We also wanted to make sure you were aware that you currently 
>have no other confirmed contacts, so it will be hard for you to
>have a productive sixdegrees experience. As you probably know, 
>without any confirmed contacts, you won't get any results from our 
>networking searches. 
>
>So, we just wanted to recommend that you head over to 
>http://www.sixdegrees.com , log-in, and go to MY CONTACTS 
>to list additional relationships. 
>
>
>====================================================================
>PLEASE NOTE: All replies to this address are processed by a computer.
>If you have any problems, questions or requests send an e-mail to 
>issues@sixdegrees.com and someone will get back to you as soon as 
>possible.
>====================================================================
>
>
>E.DB.BRESP.3
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 10:27:07 +0800
To: zac@pulp-fiction.com
Subject: Re: Isaac Lee
Message-ID: <199809171521.RAA23067@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Screw you Isaac Hayes!  I never liked Shaft anyway.  Go back to
South Park you worm!

Saddened,
Joe CypherSyphen


At 12:17 AM 9/17/98 -0500, sixdegrees wrote:
>Just a quick update from sixdegrees(tm). Unfortunately Isaac 
>Lee (zac@pulp-fiction.com) asked not to be listed as your 
>contact with sixdegrees.
>
>We also wanted to make sure you were aware that you currently 
>have no other confirmed contacts, so it will be hard for you to
>have a productive sixdegrees experience. As you probably know, 
>without any confirmed contacts, you won't get any results from our 
>networking searches. 
>
>So, we just wanted to recommend that you head over to 
>http://www.sixdegrees.com , log-in, and go to MY CONTACTS 
>to list additional relationships. 
>
>
>====================================================================
>PLEASE NOTE: All replies to this address are processed by a computer.
>If you have any problems, questions or requests send an e-mail to 
>issues@sixdegrees.com and someone will get back to you as soon as 
>possible.
>====================================================================
>
>
>E.DB.BRESP.3
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: mgraffam@mhv.net
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 16:50:44 +0800
To: jkthomson 
Subject: Re: your mail
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980917131557.006c0a00@dowco.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Thu, 17 Sep 1998, jkthomson wrote:

> makes you wonder what hell they were using for encryption?  DES?


> MIAMI (AP) -- The shadowy world of a low-budget Cuban spy ring came to
> light in a courtroom, where an FBI agent testified that a suspect's
> apartment yielded computer diskettes containing coded references to Fidel
> Castro and plans to sabotage an aircraft hangar.

Note the word coded.

> Thousands of pages of encrypted computer documents were seized from the
> men's apartments.

> He said diskettes seized from Viramontez' apartment were sprinkled with the
> word "comrade" and coded references to "commandante," taken by
> investigators to refer to Castro.

I don't think that the documents were encrypted; I think that, perhaps,
they were just done in a code language.

If they were actually using a cipher system, you do have to wonder what it
was. 

Damn.. are cypherpunks the only people in the universe smart enough to use
PGP?!?

Michael J. Graffam (mgraffam@mhv.net)
http://www.mhv.net/~mgraffam -- Philosophy, Religion, Computers, Crypto, etc
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary 
 safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Ben Franklin, ~1784




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Bernardo B. Terrado" 
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 05:16:21 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: PGP
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Could you send me the source code of the most recent PGP. (for Unix)
My server is very slow like a turtle.
I don't mind if it's large.

Could you please.

Thank you.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Some people they might say that I'm hard to get to know.
I go my own sweet way, well that maybe so.
Something about the crowd that makes me walk alone. 
I never had a need in me to be the party's life and soul.

It's me Bernie.
metaphone@altavista.net
``````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Hohensee 
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 12:53:04 +0800
To: AIMSX@aol.com
Subject: Re: Larry Gilbert, AOLers, and the Hyper-real flamer
In-Reply-To: <5e38fbca.36006a19@aol.com>
Message-ID: <36014AD4.11C504D0@nyu.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



This still doesn't explain why you think you need 100 accounts on the
same ISP.  All an account is is a login/password pair.  wtf do you use
100 *different* accounts for?  Email bombing?  Some kinda sick means of
avoiding spam mail from posting on Usenet? *rototflmao*

I suppose that if your ISP has 100 computers on its internal network,
and your login works on each one of them, you could say, technically,
that you have 100 accounts.  Of course, since your ISP is probably
running Solaris, that's a somewhat silly thing to say, as it is likely
that the /etc/passwd (or equivalent) file is NFS mounted over the whole
network, and your home directories are almost certainly NFS mounted from
a constant HD (located somewhere in the depths of the network), from
machine to machine.

Hell, I worked at Sun over the summer.  *I* had an account there, and
could login to any of the several hundred machines we had on our subnet
of SWAN.  Does that mean that I should go around saying "Yeah, I have
like, 500 shell accounts where *I* work, which proves I'm a VSC (Very
Smart Cookie), or at least not an AOLuser" *lol*

Get over it kid, you've either got a single account, which exists on a
bunch of different machines, or your ISP is even more retarded than AOL.
:)


AIMSX@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Hmm... have you ever thought... that my mother may not exactly love the 
> idea
> of me having access to other people's accounts... so I need to do what she
> DOES condone?  You just don't seem to be using your brain.
> 
> >Some of them have over 100 accounts on the same ISP, and are
> >truly so full of shit, that they're swimming in it.  Kid, by bullshiting, 
> >all
> >you're doing is enforcing the view that AOL users are really AOLusers.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Nicolas Robidoux 
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 01:09:45 +0800
To: jf_avon@citenet.net
Subject: CAD $
In-Reply-To: <199809161614.MAA06660@cti06.citenet.net>
Message-ID: <9809170556.AA07174@ma-kaka.massey.ac.nz>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




I will, in the next few days, see if there is a way I can get money
this fast. I have a margin of credit at LL, so I could use that with
my investements as collateral and reimbursement.

I need to get myself sane and physically well, and this is not totally
trivial.

My boss, besides, is in his usual pre-bitching mood. So I need to
watch out.

nicolas




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Walter Burton 
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 17:08:13 +0800
To: Anonymous 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I hope you don't feel like this (cliche) message has actually
accomplished anything.  Posting this message to cypherpunks is preaching
to the choir.  

Get out there and actually _DO_ something about it.


\\/alter

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Anonymous [mailto:nobody@nowhere.to]
> Sent: Thursday, September 17, 1998 4:15 PM
> To: cypherpunks@toad.com
> Subject: Encryption and Terrorists
> 
> 
> Wake up America! Encryption doesn't kill people!  Terrorists do.
> Would you give the keys to your house to the government? Just in
> case they have to break in? NO!  How about your ATM PIN #, 
> just in case
> you don't pay your taxes? NO! So don't give out your keys that you use
> for
> encrpytion and don't let the government have a way to get them either!
> 
> Just say NO to the UNCONSTITUTIONAL idea of Limited Privacy! 
> After all,
> we are not COMMUNISTS.
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 17:38:34 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: Democracy... (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809172303.SAA16982@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: Matthew James Gering 
> Subject: RE: Democracy... (fwd)
> Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 14:43:32 -0700

> > There's your first problem, your argument won't stand in the 
> 
> No, there is a strict difference between the defining a word and
> defining a philosophy coined after that word.

The *point* is neither word definition or philosophy, the point *is* the
5,000+ years of human history that define the issues related to the
individual, political expression, and religous freedom. The meaning is in
the context (not the medium - respects to Marshall).

> > Religion and by extension faith are not
> > constrained by reason or logic.
> 
> How do you account for this contradiction. I hold a personal philosophy
> that is strictly and absolutely constrained by reason and logic.

In your mind. You make the same mistake bejillions before you have made and
continue to make. Just because you are satisfied with it is no justification
to foist it off on me or to expect it will satisfy me. As Santyana said,

Those who don't understand history are doomed to repeate it.

This is why it is important to not fall into your 'relativistic' abolition
of history.

> Do you believe in THE FORCE, as described by the great prophet George
> Lucas?

You really should give up drugs.

> If you say "Yes," am I to claim that is your *religious* belief, not
> subject to reason, logic or empirical evidence?

Absolutely, well except for one very important point. It isn't your claiming
it's my religion that makes it so, it's my claiming it that makes it so.
What *you* claim is my religion is irrelevant and immaterial.

If we follow your plan we would outlaw anything that couldn't be reduced to
an equation in some predicate calculus. There is more in heaven and earth
than in your philosophy Horatio.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 17:55:10 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Jim Bell and CJ Upbeat
Message-ID: <199809172250.SAA24991@camel7.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Forwarded message:

Subject: Update on Jim
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998

I spoke with Jim last night. He had been "in the hole", 
as he calls it, for almost 7 days. This is when he is 
placed in a cell by himself on a different floor and is not
allowed out of it (they bring his food to him, instead of 
his going to the cafeteria, and can't go out to the social 
area - to play pool, for instance). He said it was because 
he had remarked to a warden that she had the ugliest voice 
in the whole world, after she repeatedly told the inmates 
to clean up their rooms even though they had complied
repeatedly to her demands. (I asked him if he had spent 
the time reading Atlas Shrugged, and he said he'd done that 
a bit. I don't think he's much interested in railroads, 
taking quite some time to get through it, although he told 
me he's a fast reader).

Anyway last night his things had been packed and he expected 
to be shipped to Oklahoma City this morning.  He will be 
there anywhere from half a day to two days and then be sent
on to Springfield, MO for the mental eval. Perhaps he will 
meet up with Toto there.

[End forward]

JYA:

If it's not been mentioned here CJ was in transit to 
Springfield over the weekend, being held for unknown
reasons in OKC from where he called a fan who passed
on the news. He's in good spirits.

And Jim is reported to be in good spirits. So it's all
worked out, their notoriety a tonic for tired blood, try
it, depressives.

Both are sassing the jailers, getting railroaded to 
OKC and Springfield for a bit of mind-bending and 
-straightening. Are they fit to stand trial, oh yeah, 
do it, the snakes of Medusa.

No one knows what the OKC stopover for Jim or CJ is about,
maybe to introduce them to each other (Jim claims to not 
know CJ -- smart), maybe to kick dirt on the homeplate of
Murrah Memorial, get image-counseled by Anita Hill.

Jim and CJ in Springfield at the same time, getting heavy
mentaled, wordsmith assassination duelers. Now that's a 
Teen Spirit I'd like to smell.

Remember, Music Capital Branson is just down the road from 
Springfield if cpunks want to gather to banjo code duel.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nnburk 
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 19:57:29 +0800
To: jvb@ssds.com>
Subject: Re: Cyberpunks Signal-to-Noise Ratio
In-Reply-To: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A192846BC@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
Message-ID: <3601CBEA.2407@yankton.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Think of it as dietary fiber for the mind.


Matthew James Gering wrote:
> 
> What! I can't hear you!
> 
> You could always filter *aol*, *anon* and *sixdegrees*.
> 
> Or shout louder (i.e. contribute signal).
> 
>         Matt
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jim Burnes [mailto:jvb@ssds.com]
> >
> > Far be it from me to complain about the content-free
> > nature of others postings, but has anyone else noticed
> > that the signal on cypherpunks is being lost in the noise?




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 19:48:18 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: your mail (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809180114.UAA00306@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 17:16:16 -0700
> From: Greg Broiles 
> Subject: Re: your mail

> At 05:28 PM 9/17/98 -0400, mgraffam@mhv.net wrote:
> 
> >Damn.. are cypherpunks the only people in the universe smart enough to u=
> se
> >PGP?!?
> 
> And a lot of good it's done the two who've been busted so far .. doesn't
> look like encryption is a serious obstacle to legitimate law enforcement =
> to
> me.

Mitnick certainly took advantage of it.



    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Edwin E. Smith" 
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 20:09:36 +0800
To: AIMSX@aol.com
Subject: Re: Larry Gilbert, AOLers, and the Hyper-real flamer
In-Reply-To: <491b5a5b.36017891@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980917202904.007cf100@mailhost.IntNet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1



If you are using the accounts of others without permission then you 
are a thief and you don't come up to the standards of the least 
intelligent user at AOL or anywhere else for that matter. You will 
eventually be caught and hopefully be put away somewhere dark where 
the guards will not care how loud you scream.

Of course you will think this is an empty threat but it is not a 
threat at all. It is a prediction. You are to young and stupid to 
cover your tracks well enough to not be caught.

If you are just boasting then grow up!

Edwin

At 05:01 PM 9/17/98 EDT, you wrote:
>Hmm, well, you were wrong about many things.
>The ISP runs RH5.1
>
>I don't use the passwd file for anything, as it is shadowed.
>
>I don't work there.
>
>I use 100 accounts because it is so easy to get all the new users, 
and the
>changed passwords with the way they are set up, so why stop at one, 
and if
>that one is disabled, I would like something to fall back on.  
>
>You just don't understand anything about why I do what I do.  If you 
were
>illegally using an account, would you want to ONLY have 1?  Why 
wouldn't you
>want to know you had something to fall back on if that one is 
disabled?
>
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0
Charset: noconv

iQA/AwUBNgGpT0mNf6b56PAtEQI9JgCgsxStWBToflPThdDxKtC5FbKSQW0AoL1q
+lQtbTDzSczsuydtLxHf5xTg
=7oZw
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 20:16:01 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Contacting Congress (fwd) [somebody subscribed me?]
Message-ID: <199809180142.UAA00487@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:
>From APFN@netbox.com Thu Sep 17 19:52:20 1998
Message-ID: <36019E31.D13F11E6@netbox.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 16:41:37 -0700
From: American Patriot Friends Network 
Reply-To: APFN@netbox.com
Organization: American Patriot Friends Network
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: "\"apfn@onelist.com\"" 
Subject: Contacting Congress
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------835B6AC49DD57848B52A976B"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------835B6AC49DD57848B52A976B
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

+++ CONGRESS +++ U.S. CONGRESS - CALL 1-800-504-0031 OR 202-224-3121
                                      1-800-343-3222
>The new number is: 1-800-361-5222 (90001). When you call the number,
> follow the prompts. When asked for your 5 letter zip code, enter the
> number 90001. You will be connected to the main capitol switchboard.
> Just ask for the congressman or the senator you wish to speak to. If you
> enter your home zip code, you will be connected directly to your
> Congress "CRITTER". (Congressman or Senator)Posted:08/11/98

Contact Congress via the net - Elected Net:
http://www.hoboes.com/html/Politics/electednet/

Netline To Congress - Question of the Day
http://www.netline-to-congress.com/

The Best Congress Money Can Buy
http://mojones.com/COINOP_CONGRESS/data_viewer/data_viewer.html

SENATE:
http://www.senate.gov
SENATE EMAIL ADDRESS:
http://www.senate.gov/senator/membmail.html
http://www.senate.gov/senator/state.html
Senate Judiciary Committee members with contact information:
http://www.senate.gov/committee/judiciary.html
Senate - send email:
http://www.freecongress.org/jsmp/ContactSenators.htm
*** Letter to Senators:
http://members.foothills.net/ricefile/index.html



HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES - 
http://www.house.gov
House Of Representatives (EMAIL)
http://www.house.gov/writerep/
House Judiciary Committee members with contact information:
http://www.house.gov/judiciary/mem105.htm
HOUSE AS THE SPEAKER
http://speakernews.house.gov/asknewt/
QUICK SEARCH TEXT OF BILLS 105th CONGRESS:
http://thomas.loc.gov/home/thomas.html?66,9
HOUSE - DOWNLOADING BILL TEXT
http://thomas.loc.gov/home/billdwnloadhelp.html
CONTRACTING CONGRESS
http://www.visi.com/juan/congress/



Here's a timely jewel.  James Traficant's (D-Ohio) one-minute speech
before House on September 15th.

James Traficant (D-Ohio) Home Page
http://www.house.gov/traficant/

E-mail: telljim@mail.house.gov  (Rep. Jim Traficant D-OH)


AN AMERICA WITH TWO LEGAL STANDARDS IS AN AMERICA WITH NO LEGAL
STANDARDS
              September 15, 1998

Mr. Speaker, if Joe Q. Citizen lied in a civil trial, he would be sued
for every penny. If Joe Q. Citizen lied to a Grand Jury, he would go to
jail. Lying is perjury. Perjury is a crime.

Now, having said that, what is going on here, Mr. Speaker? Does America
now have two legal standards, one for you, one for  me; one for he, one
for she; one for generals, one for soldiers; one for Presidents, one for
residents?

Let us tell it like it is. Joe Q. Citizen cannot apologize, Joe Q.
Citizen is not censured, Joe Q. Citizen is prosecuted. And let me warn
Congress: An America with two legal standards is an America with no
legal standards.

Mr. Speaker, I yield back the balance of the lives of all of the
soldiers that gave their lives fighting to preserve our freedom.

Media & Patriot Web Pages: (Bookmark)
http://home.rica.net/CaptainNemo/pers/patsites.htm
--------------835B6AC49DD57848B52A976B
Content-Type: message/rfc822
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

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X-Sender: idzrus@mail.earthlink.net
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 09:32:14 -0700
To: idzrus@earthlink.net
From: "W.G.E.N." 
Subject: Contacting Congress via e-mail
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Real-To:  "W.G.E.N." 

>From: gardener@southtech.net
>X-Sender: gardener@southtech.net
>X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32)
>Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 08:34:34 -0400
>To: (Recipient list suppressed)
>Subject: Contacting Congress via e-mail
>
>X-Sender: tbark@nwark.com
>X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 
>Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 22:14:25 -0500
>To: "1a-TBA Members & Friends"  
>From: Take Back Arkansas 
>Subject: Contacting Congress via e-mail
>
>MAKE YOUR VOICES HEARD, PLEASE!  HERE'S HOW.  md
>
>Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 10:59:19 -0700
>From: David Dorman
>Organization: University of Idaho
>Subject: Contacting Congress via e-mail
>
>In searching for Congressional e-mail addresses recently, I found the
>below listed web site.  For those of you who have tried to contact many
>members of Congress at once you know how time consuming the process can
>become.
>
>ElectedNet! will allow you to search for a single member by name, state,
>just one party, etc. or you can e-mail all members of Congress at once.
>It provides an effective way to quickly get your message out and uses
>your e-mail program not some "fill in the blanks" type interface.  Using
>this method you will be able to use your spell checker and retain a copy
>of the messages sent for future reference.
>
>In order to improve the impact of your message you should format your
>e-mail like a standard mail letter to congress (minus the TO: section)
>and INCLUDE your return mailing address.  Most members of Congress will
>not reply via e-mail but by U.S. Postal Service, so your return address
>is critical.  This is probably to prevent someone from changing an
>e-mail reply and forwarding without their approval.
>
>Even if you send a letter (e-mail) to a Congressional member who is not
>in your voting district, they will usually respond and track the number
>of letters for or against an issue.  With this web site it is easy to
>just "click" on another name to be included in your letter to Congress
>and the more letters some staff person has to send out the greater the
>impact your message will have during the weekly Congressional office
>staff meetings.
>
>
>http://www.hoboes.com/html/Politics/electednet/
>
>
>
>
>
>Mary Denham, State Coordinator    Take Back Arkansas, Inc.   
>2167 N.  Porter Rd.  Fayetteville,  AR  72704   
>Fax  501/521-1724   Pho  501/521-1933  
>TBA website    http://www.nwark.com/~tbark
>
>
>
>
>



--------------835B6AC49DD57848B52A976B--




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Greg Broiles 
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 22:57:04 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Mark Twain/Mercantile dumps Digicash
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




According to
,
Mark Twain Bank/Mercantile Bank will no longer support DigiCash. They are
no longer listed as an issuer of ecash on Digicash' website. Neither
organization seems to have information available via the web about the
decision to terminate the service.

--
Greg Broiles
gbroiles@netbox.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "sixdegrees"
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 20:34:36 +0800
To: "Joe Cypherpunk"
Subject: Your new password
Message-ID: <199809180128.SAA10967@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Name: Joe Cypherpunk
sixdegrees password: fazefour

Congratulations Joe. You're well on your way to 
becoming a full sixdegrees(tm) member. Here is your member 
password: fazefour. Use it to log-in on the home page 
at the sixdegrees Web site, http://www.sixdegrees.com. 
We'll ask you for a little more information to complete your 
registration, and then you'll be ready to start networking. 

It's important that you return to the site and log-in. Your 
membership will not be complete until you do so.

Once you've successfully logged in with your password, just go 
to Personal Profile and you'll be able to choose your own 
password.

Thanks for becoming part of sixdegrees. We're looking forward 
to seeing you at the site. 

====================================================================
PLEASE NOTE: All replies to this address are processed by a computer.
If you believe you received this e-mail in error, and it was not your 
intention to become a sixdegrees member, or if you have any problems, 
questions or requests send an e-mail to issues@sixdegrees.com
and someone will get back to you as soon as possible.
====================================================================


E.SI.BAM.1




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 21:38:39 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: your mail (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809180305.WAA01592@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 04:31:40 +0200 (CEST)
> From: Lucky Green 
> Subject: Re: your mail (fwd)

> Mitnick is in jail. Crypto or no crypto.

True, but unlike these other guys they haven't been able to de-crypt the
data and use it against him, and they have denied him access to retrieve
files that supposedly prove his innocence, definitely making the big boys
look more than a tad oppressive. Add onto this the physical abuse that is
supposed to have occurred and it becomes to be seen as an issue irrespective
of his crimes.

I would say that in Mitnick's case the use of crypto has worked to his
long-term advantage.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Brian W. Buchanan" 
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 00:16:25 +0800
To: Kevin Elliott 
Subject: Re: Democracy...
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Thu, 17 Sep 1998, Kevin Elliott wrote:




> completely irrelevant to the question at had.  A parking ticket is
> suffiecent to qualify as an impeachable offense under the constitution
> ("high crimes and MISDEMEANORS) but again that isn't relevant.  For the

Incorrect.  A parking ticket, like a speeding ticket or other minor
traffic violations is classified as an "infraction", not a misdemeanor.
Apparently, even the govts. recognizes that there are so many laws on the
books now that one can't possibly hope to avoid breaking them.

-- 
Brian Buchanan                                      brian@smarter.than.nu

Never believe that you know the whole story.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Dave Emery 
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 21:29:37 +0800
To: Matthew James Gering 
Subject: Re: Mobile phone tracking, pagers, etc
In-Reply-To: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A192846AF@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
Message-ID: <19980917222329.A1364@die.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Thu, Sep 17, 1998 at 11:56:02AM -0700, Matthew James Gering wrote:
> 
> Regarding the tracking of mobile phones, are all current types of phones
> susceptible?
> 
> There was a recent post here regarding tracking of GSM phones.
> TDMA/CDMA, analog/digital, PCS-band, etc, are they all equally capable
> of being tracked?

	All the wireless standards I am aware of allow for registration
and polling phones to find out if they are on and available without
ringing them. This provides silent location information to the nearest
cell of a phone merely turned on, location  which may be hundreds of
feet in tightly congested urban areas and tens of square miles in
suburban and less populated areas.   Some system operators apparently
use this feature with all active phones to relieve congestion on paging
channels, while others do not actively track phones not being used
except in certain situations or parts of the network.   Of course
location to a cell is always available during a call...

	The FCC has mandated that this cell-granularity location
information be made available to E-911 centers on emergency calls, and
there may be some situations in which it is currently made available to
domestic law enforcement under other circumstances, though CALEA
restricts such availability without warrents.  Whether and under what
circumstances law enforcement can request a poll be transmitted
(re-registration) to locate a silent but powered phone is less clear.  
It would seem that CALEA forbids this, but what in fact is the practice
by such agencies as the FBI working quietly with cell carriers in places
such as NYC is less clear.

	In the future FCC rules will require that all E-911 calling
wireless phones be located to 125 meters 67% of the time.  There are
proposals to do this with differential time of arrival (DTOA)
or other direction finding techniques (apparently a hard problem
in cities with lots of multipath propagation due to reflections)
that work passively on some or all cell calls and registrations
(thus allowing tracking of everybody), or by cooperation with the
cellphone handset that could be only turned on when the user wished
to be located (an E-911 emergency) and disabled otherwise.   One
version of this would use GPS rather than ranging or other techniques
to determine position relative to the cell sites.    Of course all
the user disaablable  techniques such as GPS and DTOA done in the handset
firmware only will work with future cell firmware and hardware
and not legacy handsets, and because of this may not be acceptable
to the FCC.

	There are some distinctions between CDMA, GSM, analog and TDMA
(non GSM), in respects to exactly how easy it is to implement precision
location meeting the FCC spec passively and on all calls at all times.
Apparently CDMA with its very tight power control to minimize the near-far
problem makes it fairly awkward to reliably triangulate position from
multiple sites since the mobile may be only detectable at one site
at any time...  What this means in practice is that some wireless
technologies are more likely to require some definate active firmware
intervention to do precision location, whilst others may allow it
with no special intervention.   If the FCC allows this intervention
to be enabled by a user, this may provide some opportunity for
location privacy.


> 
> However pagers are not, correct? They just broadcast an entire area to
> page instead of the pager keeping the network informed of their
> location.

	The one way pagers work this way.  The guaranteed delivery two
way pagers do support registration and will know the location of
the pager after a page has been sent to it and any time the system
wants to determine it.   This location will be quite coarse with current
two way (reFlex) pagers with cell sites some distance apart, but 
DF techniques are quite possible and could be implemented by law
enforcement or spooks or other interested groups.  Unlike wireless phones
there is no current FCC requirement for positioning information distribution
or precision positioning infrastructure, so two way pagers aren't
likeyly to be routinely located accurately any time soon.

	Of course most modern wireless phones support paging message
delivery, so more and more people will be using wireless phones with
the FCC mandated tracking accuracy for paging...
> 
> One thing I have long wondered: Why don't they make phones that
> "wake-up" by a paging signal and then accept the call? It might increase
> the connect time significantly, but it would also increase the potential
> stand-by time indefinitely, and the location of the user is only exposed
> when calls are in progress, not while the phone is on stand-by.
> 
	Wireless phones do currently work this way.  They listen to the
forward control channel for a paging message that says they have got a
call coming in and only then do they transmit.  The amount of power used
in transmitting would quickly use up the battery if they continuously
broadcast.  The problem with cellphone location is that they can also be
paged with a registration request that does not cause them to ring
or show any evidence of transmitting, but sends back a brief message
burst (not using much battery).   This can be made to happen every
so often, or only when polled.


> Are there any paging services (particularly alpha paging) that work on a
> global scale? You would think daily pager rental service (esp. at
> airports) would be popular. You could have an email address, even a
> static phone number, that could re-route messages to any pager that you
> happen to have at the time (PSTN-IP-PSTN, or even easier if the pager
> service gives SMTP addresses, which most do these days).
> 
	There are nationwide pager services that broadcast your pages
over very wide areas or depend on registration to locate you down to
a smaller area.  But yes, you can get paged anywhere in the US and
several other countries.  And the new LEO satellite technology will
allow paging over whole continents or potentially anywhere in the world.


> Similarly a PSTN-IP-PSTN interface for voice could give you a static
> phone number that you could dynamically forward anywhere untraceably.

	The LEAs don't like this concept, and one of the provisions of
the CALEA wiretap stuff is providing tracing of calls forwarded so you can't
do this....


-- 
	Dave Emery N1PRE,  die@die.com  DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass. 
PGP fingerprint = 2047/4D7B08D1 DE 6E E1 CC 1F 1D 96 E2  5D 27 BD B0 24 88 C3 18




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Greg Broiles 
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 00:24:17 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: RF networks, spread spectrum
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Cpunks interested in radio networking and spread spectrum apps might find
the following links useful - 

 describes the design of
a 900 mhz spread spectrum 128kb/s TCP/IP radio network with 10baseT
input/outputs;

 provides an overview of spread
spectrum projects/regulations/applications

 has links to more spread spectrum
stuff. 

--
Greg Broiles
gbroiles@netbox.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Burnes 
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 00:23:53 +0800
To: nnburk 
Subject: Re: Cyberpunks Signal-to-Noise Ratio
In-Reply-To: <3601CBEA.2407@yankton.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Thu, 17 Sep 1998, nnburk wrote:

> Think of it as dietary fiber for the mind.
> 
> 
Just to show how far down the SNR has gone I have
committed the ultimate atrocity and typo'd Cypherpunks
as Cyberpunks.

Eeeek.

Must have something to do with re-reading Neuromancer
last week.  The unconscious does strange things.

regrets,

jim


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP 5.0i
Charset: noconv

iQA/AwUBNgHvnOlhVGT5JbsfEQJrRQCfcJ311hK6xZYD4YnzA94nPw0UzVYAoMyN
rM1/eth1yrPAqKfXfXoYLTQw
=tCRD
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Kevin Elliott 
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 23:49:46 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Democracy...
In-Reply-To: <19980916072612.3520.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>I agree with you completely when you state that religion, ethics, and
>law are distinct and different things.  Unfortunately in the United
>States they have a strong tendency to become intertwined.  The law as it
>stands is that impeachment is only to be used in cases of high crimes
>and misdemeanors.  Now I have not read the entire Starr report nor do I
>have a sophisticated background in law nevertheless nothing Bill has
>done seems to qualify as worthy of impeachment under the law.  However,
>the sexual acts and behaviour exhibited by him is deeply repugnant to
>many on ethical grounds and particularly repugnant to Christians
>specifically.  I do not have any problem at all with those who are
>disgusted by the presidents behaviour on ethical or religious grounds, I
>personally find it repulsive.  I do however feel, as I believe you are
>saying also,  that the law is law.  It should be executed in a fair and
>just manner and according to the letter ( which may or may not lead to
>impeachment ).  The previous poster to which I replied seemed to be very
>clearly stating that his personal religious code of ethics took
>precedence over american legal codes,  a viewpoint which I cannot agree
>with.  All debate on the precice origin and validity of 'seperation of
>church and state' aside I cannot recall any part of the constitution
>which invokes divine justice.  The impeachment issue is not one of
>ethics or religion, simply law and law alone.
>
>Vivek Vaidya

I a word, bullshit.  The constitution the way the constitution was phrased
makes it very clear- YOU DO NOT HAVE TO COMMIT A CRIME TO BE GUILTY OF
IMPEACHABLE OFFENSES!!! Many people have been impeached in Americas history
and most were not guilty of a crime, ie their offenses were not legal
crimes or they were never prosecuted for the crime they were impeached and
tried for.  Fact- the president has commited perjury.  That is undeniable,
Starr has presented his evidence very clearly and I don't think that needs
to be rehashed.  Are his actions sufficient to yield a criminal conviction
in the "real world"?  In a general sense yes but in a broader sense that is
completely irrelevant to the question at had.  A parking ticket is
suffiecent to qualify as an impeachable offense under the constitution
("high crimes and MISDEMEANORS) but again that isn't relevant.  For the
sake of argument I will through out all criminal conduct, all perjury
issues, obstruction of justice, possible sexual assault, everything.  What
we are left with is a president who engaged in gross sexual misconduct with
a women under his employment.  That is ethical misconduct of the most
aggregious kind.  It undermines authority, disturbs professional atmosphere
necessary for a smoothly functioning organization.  In any corporation in
America it would, by custom and, in some jurisdictions, law, be grounds for
immediate dismissal.  Impeachment is exactly that.  It imposes no
punishments, no jail time, no fines, it simply removes an official from the
position he has failed to faithfully execute.



___________________________________________________________________________
"DOS/WIN based computers manufactured by companies such as IBM, Compaq,
Tandy, and millions of others, are by far the most popular, with about 70
million machines in use worldwide. Macintosh fans, on the other hand, note
that cockroaches are far more numerous than humans, and that numbers alone
do not denote a higher life form." - New York Times

-Kevin "The Cubbie" Elliott 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: zËRö 
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 10:52:03 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: remove
Message-ID: <3602004C.D6D@pacific.net.sg>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



remove




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 17:26:16 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199809172218.AAA29477@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



AIMSX@aol.com wrote:
>Hmm, well, you were wrong about many things.
>
>I use 100 accounts because it is so easy to get all the new users, and the
>changed passwords with the way they are set up, so why stop at one, and if
>that one is disabled, I would like something to fall back on.  

d00d!  would you mind posting some of those access codes, logon id's, phone
numbers?  i sure could use a few!  certainly you don't need all 100.  thanks a
million!  make sure that you send them to the cypherpunks list so that all the
fed guys reading this list will see them.  the feds like to use stolen accounts
too, they can cover their tracks better that way.

TotoMongrel II(tm)




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 23:39:08 +0800
To: dcsb@ai.mit.edu
Subject: Questions for Magaziner?
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I spoke at the Electronic Payments Forum here in Boston today, and,
tomorrow, the keynote for tomorrow's lunch is Ira Magaziner.

(BTW, Bill was speaking tonight at the same hotel the conference is in,
probably a bilderberger conspiracy thing, and, when I got out, there was
about a thousand protesters, about 80/20 against, complete with one guy
dressed as a giant cigar, shades of Butt Man?, and a couple of women with
big brunette hair and blue dresses on. With pearl necklaces, of course...)

Anyway, In light of more recent crypto-shenanigans from Billary, and the
fact that this thing's a small crowd, I figured I'd ask if anyone on these
lists had a question they wanted me to ask him.

One I want to ask, right off the top of my head is, "Given your recent
successes in regulating foreign cryptography, what's your timetable for
regulating domestic cryptography?"

;-).

(To the extent that they already *do*, or not, I'll leave as an exercise
for the reader...)

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: hark12@eudoramail.com
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 06:08:54 +0800
To: cypherpunks@infonex.com
Subject: cypherpunks, Are You Infringing someone's  trademark rights?
Message-ID: <199809181003.DAA15716@sirius.infonex.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Hi cypherpunks,



************************************************************************************
Please reply with subject "remove" to be removed
************************************************************************************
 Every day some small business person finds them selves on the receiving end
of a law suit filed by a multi-national corporation with deep pockets. They
claim infringement on their trademark rights. Currently their wealth means
they are winning by default. We want to make you aware of your rights so
you do not find yourself in the position of being the next "someone" the big
boys decide to make an example of in court.

As a user of the Internet you are entitled to use your domain name, as your
trademark, without fear of being sued. However, not everyone knows the
secrets to proper use and as such they have left themselves wide open to
attack. We have prepared an article titled "How to correctly use your
domain name". We invite you to read it. You will find the article at

http://www.arvic.com/library/domanuse.asp

If you are a small business person using the Internet to market your
business and your products then perhaps you will be interested in reading
the companion article on "How to use your Corporate or Product names as
trademarks". You will find this article at

http://www.arvic.com/library/useoftm.asp

We are Arvic Search Services Inc. We operate TMWeb the "Home of the $25.00
Canadian & American trademark search". Since 1982 we have grown to become
one of the most dominant advocates of small business rights both on and off
the Internet. We help individuals protect their rights to use unregistered,
as well as registered, trademarks without incurring the cost of
registration. We will even show you, at no charge, how to conduct your own
trademark searches.

If you are currently the owner of a trademark then you may find our article
on "The do's and don'ts of Trademark use" of interest. You will find this
article located at;

http://www.arvic.com/library/buz004.asp

We believe it is in your best interest to learn as much as you can about
trademarks, the rights of trademark owners and your rights as an Internet
citizen. We invite you to visit our web sites. There you will find, in
addition to the above, a number of guides and "How to" articles that should
be of assistance. You will also learn more about us and the services we
offer. When you visit our sites you will find our North America wide toll
free phone number located on the bottom of every page. We encourage you to
call and discuss any trademark, trade name or domain name issue of concern
to you.

Victor G. Arcuri
Arvic Search Services Inc.
Registered Trademark Agents
#1710, 505 - 3rd Street SW
Calgary, Alberta  Canada  T2P 2E6
Local Phone (403) 234-0844  Local Fax (403) 294-0944
Toll Free across North America 1-888-227-8421
Please visit our web sites
http://www.arvic.com    and    http://www.tmweb.com
___________________


This is the first time I have done this type of promotion. I am not even
certain that I have worded this information correctly. If you see where I
have made a mstake by omission then I ask that you advise me of same so
that I get the best possible return from these mailings.

We did not discuss whcih day of the week you would be sending the mail. I
would ask that you waite until next tuesday to send the Canadian. Monday is
a holiday. The US mailings can go at your convenience.
--
Victor G. Arcuri
Arvic Search Services Inc.
Registered Trademark Agents
#1710, 505 - 3rd Street SW
Calgary, Alberta  Canada  T2P 2E6
Local Phone (403) 234-0844  Local Fax (403) 294-0944
Toll Free across North America 1-888-227-8421
Please visit our web sites
http://www.arvic.com    and    http://www.tmweb.com






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: lcs Mixmaster Remailer 
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 22:25:30 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: New project
Message-ID: <19980918032005.24338.qmail@nym.alias.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Fun thing to do...... read the Starr Report, then
find all the days and times that they did nasty stuff..... then
find pix of the President at public engagements,
meetings, speeches, etc. just before and just after these
sex acts....... set up a Web Site with these pix of
him speaking, or shaking hands with an old lady, or
talking to a class of kids......put in the HTML Page how 
many minutes, hours, ect., before or after the pix was taken that he was doing what
act!!!!!!!!!!!

SOMEBODY DO THIS, IT WILL BE FUNNY HA HA!!!!!!


P.S. This is not my original Idea, everbody's talking about it
here at work, and I don't know how to get to the right databases
to find the pix, so don't ask me.................




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Hohensee 
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 22:31:04 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Larry Gilbert, AOLers, and the Hyper-real flamer
In-Reply-To: <491b5a5b.36017891@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3601D3DD.79E5E5C2@nyu.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



AIMSX@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Hmm, well, you were wrong about many things.
> The ISP runs RH5.1

Which is not significant to this discussion, as Linux does NFS too.  You
have raised an irrelevant point in your (attempt at a) defense. 

Me: 1
You: 0
 
> I don't use the passwd file for anything, as it is shadowed.

What part of "or equivalent" don't you understand?  If you don't already
know, even in a shadowed system, the encrypted passwords reside
*somewhere*.  If you knew that already, you have again raised an
irrelevant point in your attempt at a defense.
 
Me: 2
You: 0

> I don't work there.

So?  I was just giving an example of what it is to have an account on a
network which uses NFS.  I won't even bother awarding myself a point for
this one, but you lose one, for such a pointless statement.

Me: 2
You: -1

> I use 100 accounts because it is so easy to get all the new users, and the
> changed passwords with the way they are set up, so why stop at one, and if
> that one is disabled, I would like something to fall back on.

Ohhhh, I see.  You really *do* have 100 different logins!  Now, back to
my original question: "Wtf do you use 100 different accounts for?"

Hmm, so what you're essentially saying is, you're doing some stuff that
might get your account disabled (such as email bombing, spamming,
posting moronic stuff to usenet, or downloading too much kiddie porn).

Now let's all think really hard for a second.  Who could possibly be the
cause of any disabling that occurs to this fellow's account?  Could it
be, the ISP?  *YES*, (you win a cookie).  Now, if the ISP's sysadmin
looks at this fellow's account and says, hmm, I'm going to disable this
loser's account, mightn't that very same sysadmin think to himself,
"ooo, look at this, the guy's got 99 other accounts.  Maybe I'd better
disable them, too, otherwise, disabling this one account won't have much
of an effect."

Ok class, it's time for a quiz.  In the scenario above, what kind of
good would having 100 different accounts at the same ISP do you?  The
answer?  Absolutely None.
 
> You just don't understand anything about why I do what I do. 

No no, I understand completely.  You're an idiot.  :)

> If you were
> illegally using an account, would you want to ONLY have 1?

Oh, you're using it *illegally*?  Why didn't you say so *before*?  In
that case, my flaming becomes so much easier.  When your (unwitting) ISP
disables one of your accounts, they will very likely run a check on
their system for any other little nasties which may be around.  (as they
will assume that their system has been compromised at superuser level)
They will very easily find the accounts which shouldn't technically
exist, and delete them.  

If, on the other hand, you've just found the passwords for a bunch of
otherwise legitimate users, you'll be screwed when the ISP sends an
email to all the users telling them to change their passwords.

>  Why wouldn't you
> want to know you had something to fall back on if that one is disabled?

Because having X number of extra accounts at a single ISP will *not*
give you anything to fall back upon when one of them is disabled.

But don't worry, I seriously doubt that you have the knowledge necessary
to do anything more obnoxious than send foolish emails to the
cypherpunks list.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 21:35:10 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: remove
Message-ID: <199809180220.EAA14123@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Thu, 17 Sep 1998, zKRv wrote:

> 
> remove
> 
> 

Please! Not here, zKRv! Please do that in the privacy of your own home or,
following the U.S. President's example, in the halls of the White House or
in front of a window in the Oval Orifice.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Hohensee 
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 23:18:08 +0800
To: Matthew James Gering 
Subject: Re: Democracy... (fwd) The Nature of Religion
In-Reply-To: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A192846AD@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
Message-ID: <3601E054.999D3DE2@nyu.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Actually, you may be interested to know that *everyone* is religious, in
some manner.  Everyone has at least one untestable assumption about the
world.  That is, everyone has a kind of faith.  Let's give some
examples:

Christians believe that there exists a Being, called God, which somehow
created the universe and guides (or not, depending on whether or not
you're a Deist) its development.  Furthermore, they believe that Jesus
Christ was the son of God.  This is an untestable assumption.  Nobody
can *prove* that God exists.  They simply choose to act on the
assumption that He does.

Moslems believe in the existance of a different God, and have different
rules and details in their religion, but their fundamental assumption is
the same.  God exists.  God created the universe.  They can't prove any
of it, but they nevertheless choose to act as if it is true.

Atheists believe that God *doesn't* exist, which is essentially the same
kind of belief that is described above.  If you can't prove that God
*does* exist, you can't prove that He doesn't exist either.  This is
their untestable assumption about the universe.

Even people who are nonreligious, or agnostic, have a religion.  For
them the question is not whether or not God exists,--they don't know one
way or the other-- but whether or not the *universe*, (the external
world) exists apart from themselves.  After all, if I choose to believe
that the universe doesn't exist, and is instead some dream that I'm
entertaining myself with, there is no test you can perform which can
convince me otherwise.  Similarly, if I choose to believe that the
universe *does* exist apart from myself, there is no test that can be
carried out what will convince me otherwise (because, if it *doesn't*
exist, I must be very good at decieving myself).

The Transcendentalists of the 19th century, for example, do not really
believe that the universe exists apart from themselves.  They believe
that the human mind (or, more specifically and honestly, their minds)
are what governs the way the universe works.  To them, when men
"discover" new effects in nature, those effects are a direct result of
the discovery.  That is, that the belief in the effects are what cause
the effects.  To them, the map is the territory.

Scientists tend to think differently.  Their beliefs can be described by
those laid out in General Semantics.  "The map is not the territory; the
word is not the thing."  That is, the universe exists *apart* from our
conceptions of it.  This is my personal religion.  I begin from the
fundamental assumption that the universe does in fact exist apart from
myself, and base all further beliefs on that.  

I personally feel that this philosophy is one of the most mature and
socially responsible ones in existance, because, knowing that the
universe is not in fact something I've dreamed up, I know that other
people are emphatically *not* mine, and that I have no natural right to
impose my will upon them in any coercive way.  This is quite different
from the stance that many God followers and Transcendentalists take.

But then, that's just my biased point of view, since I'm religious and
everything. :)



Matthew James Gering wrote:
> 
> > Atheism means that one believes that there is no God.
> 
> You trying to claim atheism is a religion itself is like the christians
> always claiming non-christians are satin worshippers. Forget about the
> origination of the word, in today's reality most atheists simply forgo
> religion completely.
> 
> There is no reason to think that a god does exist, so why would one even
> need to think about or believe in the negative.
> 
> > Ah, so there are personal beliefs that aren't religion and
> > then there are personal beliefs that are?
> 
> Yes, beliefs based on valid reason, empiricism and science are not
> religious, the generally follow the path from conjecture to theory to
> fact. You may hold lots of personal conjecture that do qualify as
> beliefs but are not religious in nature, they are not exempt from
> empirical evidence and the laws of thermodynamics. Beliefs based on
> faith and mysticism are religious. Religion is irrational.
> 
> > What a self-rightous, pretentious,  egotistical viewpoint.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> > Actualy not, the vast majority of people believe in God, just not your
> > particular brand - which after all is what the 1st is all about.
> 
> Perhaps in Bible-belt Texas, not around here (not in the city anyway).
> 
>         Matt




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Lucky Green 
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 21:29:50 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: your mail (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199809180114.UAA00306@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Mitnick is in jail. Crypto or no crypto.

---Lucky


On Thu, 17 Sep 1998, Jim Choate wrote:

> 
> Forwarded message:
> 
> > Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 17:16:16 -0700
> > From: Greg Broiles 
> > Subject: Re: your mail
> 
> > At 05:28 PM 9/17/98 -0400, mgraffam@mhv.net wrote:
> > 
> > >Damn.. are cypherpunks the only people in the universe smart enough to u=
> > se
> > >PGP?!?
> > 
> > And a lot of good it's done the two who've been busted so far .. doesn't
> > look like encryption is a serious obstacle to legitimate law enforcement =
> > to
> > me.
> 
> Mitnick certainly took advantage of it.
> 
> 
> 
>     ____________________________________________________________________
> 
>                             The seeker is a finder.
> 
>                                      Ancient Persian Proverb
> 
>        The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
>        Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
>        www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
>                            -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
>     --------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 


-- Lucky Green  PGP v5 encrypted email preferred.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 15:21:14 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Encryption and Terrorists
Message-ID: <7874ed1d5f47be94688551065bac8ea5@anonymous>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Wake up America! Encryption doesn't kill people!  Terrorists do.
Would you give the keys to your house to the government? Just in
case they have to break in? NO!  How about your ATM PIN #, just in case
you don't pay your taxes? NO! So don't give out your keys that you use
for
encrpytion and don't let the government have a way to get them either!

Just say NO to the UNCONSTITUTIONAL idea of Limited Privacy! After all,
we are not COMMUNISTS.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Duncan Frissell 
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 05:14:12 +0800
To: Greg Broiles 
Message-ID: <199809181015.GAA04293@mail1.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 09:04 PM 9/17/98 -0700, Greg Broiles wrote:
>
>According to
>,
>Mark Twain Bank/Mercantile Bank will no longer support DigiCash. They are
>no longer listed as an issuer of ecash on Digicash' website. Neither
>organization seems to have information available via the web about the
>decision to terminate the service.
>
>--
>Greg Broiles
>gbroiles@netbox.com


I thought this was already known or I would have said:

"Mark Twain Bank (MTB), a small bank headquartered in the Midwest, took a
bold step
three years ago when it became the first bank in the world to offer
privacy-protecting eCash
accounts.  In April, 1997, however, MTB was bought out by Mercantile Bank,
and the larger,
stodgier bank recently decided to drop the eCash program."

They probably weren't making any money.  I wonder if Mercantile will drop
MTB's foreign currency accounts as well?

DCF 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 23:38:31 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Scorched Earth
Message-ID: <199809180440.GAA25125@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



URL: http://cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/9808/09/se.01.html

:: Special Event
:: 
:: Investigating the President: Can Bill Clinton Escape the Perjury Trap?
:: 
:: Aired August 9, 1998 - 4:00 p.m. ET 
:: 
:: 
:: Gene Randall in Washington
:: DAVID CORN, "THE NATION" MAGAZINE
:: DONALD LAMBRO, "WASHINGTON TIMES"
:: ALEXIS SIMENDINGER, "NATIONAL JOURNAL"
:: 
:: 
:: RANDALL: Don, you've got a story today about what could happen if
:: Republicans press for impeachment on, basically, a sex case against the
:: president. A Democratic scorched-earth policy against the GOP. Tell us
:: about that?
:: 
:: LAMBRO: Well, a number of reports, and I talked to other Democrats who
:: confirm this, that if this goes to House of Representatives, if there is
:: an impeachment inquiry, it is going to be a scorched-earth policy by the
:: Democrats to go after the Republicans in the House, in the leadership,
:: dig up all the dirt they can on leadership, on members, Republican members
:: of the House Judiciary Committee. It's going to be the same thing they
:: did in campaign finance scandal -- Everybody does it, what's the big deal.
:: 
:: RANDALL: Would this fly?
:: 
:: CORN: Well, people I talk to don't really have a -- it's more a sentiment
:: than a plan. And I don't think it's actually going to come into being
:: because we're not even going to get close to impeachment, because it's
:: just not in the Republicans' political interest to drag this stuff up,
:: and if people go back look at what Newt Gingrich did with his first
:: wife, and all this stuff. It's just -- they have no political interest
:: in doing this, so they will not do so.
:: 
:: RANDALL: We got to get Alexis in here.
:: 
:: SIMENDINGER: You don't need to execute the plan. You just have to let
:: people think it's out there, and it's going to have a chilling effect.
:: 
:: LAMBRO: The Democrats, I think, are closer than you think. They just hired
:: three lawyers to prepare them for impeachment on the Judiciary Committee.
:: 
:: CORN: Well, how many have the Republicans hired already; they have a
:: whole task force on impeachment that has been studying the issue. They
:: are going to blink. They are not going to do this.
:: 
:: LAMBRO: All right, three attorneys to prepare them for impeachment
:: proceedings.
:: 
:: RANDALL: Let's all take time to blink, because we must take a
:: break. Coming up, memories of Watergate and those who caution on getting
:: those memories straight. Stay with is.
:: 
:: (COMMERCIAL BREAK)




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 07:14:07 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Democracy... (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809181240.HAA02855@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 22:18:44 -0700 (PDT)
> From: "Brian W. Buchanan" 
> Subject: Re: Democracy...

> Incorrect.  A parking ticket, like a speeding ticket or other minor
> traffic violations is classified as an "infraction", not a misdemeanor.
> Apparently, even the govts. recognizes that there are so many laws on the
> books now that one can't possibly hope to avoid breaking them.

They're still at least a Class C misdemeanor in the state of Texas.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 07:26:18 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RF networks, spread spectrum (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809181251.HAA03092@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 22:31:22 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Greg Broiles 
> Subject: RF networks, spread spectrum

> Cpunks interested in radio networking and spread spectrum apps might find
> the following links useful - 
> 
>  describes the design of
> a 900 mhz spread spectrum 128kb/s TCP/IP radio network with 10baseT
> input/outputs;
> 
>  provides an overview of spread
> spectrum projects/regulations/applications
> 
>  has links to more spread spectrum
> stuff. 

Another source of related information is the AX.25 Level 2 support built
into the current Linux kernels. If you're using SuSE 5.3 it's located on
the install CD at:

/unsorted/Amateur-Funk

&

/usr/src/linux/Documentation/networking/ax25.txt

In the SuSE manual (pp. 188) it says:

"Enables data transfer via CB"


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 07:22:01 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: CJ Message
Message-ID: <199809181213.IAA20276@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



This allegedly is forwarded from CJ, though from an unknown source 
so think twice:

    Thu, Sep 09 1998 

    part of a communication received via the anonymous route:

      "In the meantime, I hope that anyone who has possession of 
      the PGP Secret Keys for Toto, TruthMonger, Son of Gomez, Magic 
      Circle, etc., feels free to use them to digitally sign messages 
      to the CyperPunks Disturbed Male LISP.

      "Passwords:  sog, sog709, sog709cejCJP,sog709cjpCEJ, D'Shauneaux, 
      D'shauneaux, and others..."

---------

Some of CJ's amazing output related to the message above
is archived at:

   http://www.uneedus.com/~dave/library.html

See "Psychotic."




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Leif Ericksen 
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 08:20:45 +0800
To: cypherpunks 
Subject: Re: Encryption and Terrorists
In-Reply-To: <7874ed1d5f47be94688551065bac8ea5@anonymous>
Message-ID: <36025B1F.BAF0F59@wwa.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Anonymous wrote:
> 
> Wake up America! Encryption doesn't kill people!  Terrorists do.
> Would you give the keys to your house to the government? Just in
> case they have to break in? NO!  How about your ATM PIN #, just in case
> you don't pay your taxes? NO! So don't give out your keys that you use
> for
> encrpytion and don't let the government have a way to get them either!
> 
> Just say NO to the UNCONSTITUTIONAL idea of Limited Privacy! After all,
> we are not COMMUNISTS.

You make some interesting comments, but here is a few issues to
consider.  Yes, in AmeriKa we are free or are we?

In America the government already has our keys to our house. *IF* they
suspect us of something YES we are free to say *NO* you may not enter my
house.  However, if they come with a search warrant you had better let
them in or they will break down your door, you had better help them find
what they want or they will tear apart your house looking for said items
stated in the search warrant.  *IF* they do not find it, it is the
responsibility of the searching organization to have repairs done for
the damage. (So I have been told by a friend whose brother is a cop.)

You talk about an ATM PIN number, well here is the bigger problem, we
have a Social (Insecurity) Number.  Once you take it and use it you have
stated YES, I will pay my taxes, you pay once you pay for life. (Taxes
were originally voluntary when the program started.  Now it is forced. 
At least that is what I have heard, I have not researched it yet.  NOTE:
to any IRS agents, I Do and will continue to pay my taxes.  I do not
like it but I rather pay then have you come in and take everything)

Back to the point with the SSN the IRS can freeze ALL your Assets and
lock up your bank accounts and say this money is OURS, they can also
come in and kick you out of your house. (My father had some co-workers
that owed some money to the government, and made the mistake of saying
they could not pay and that they should just take his house.  Guess what
the IRS said MOVE OUT it is OURS!  He should have asked for a payment
plan, he would have been better off.)

No we are not communists, however our country is NO LONGER a REAL
Democracy, it is more of a dictatorship. The government for the people
BY THE PEOPLE is no longer.  IT is a GOVERNMENT FOR THE GOVERNMENT  BY
THE GOVERNMENT.

Think of it we vote for who we want, but do we really get what we want?
Think of it Congress wants a raise they make a motion and vote on it.
DO they let the public vote on it? NO.
Think of it we pay taxes and boy do we pay taxes depending on what state
you live in we have such as the following.
	1) Sales
	2) Property
	3) Income 
 	    - Federal	
	    - State
                 The following are some that some areas are trying to 
                 get in place.
	    - local (township/county)
	    - city
	4) Phone taxes
            - Federal
	    - State
            - City
            - (local and state additional charges?) TAX upon TAX.
	    - Federal PIC Charge. TAX UPON TAX UPON TAX.
	5) Death.
	6) Inheritance.

I know I missed a few here, and I am sure there are some anti tax folks
out here that could list every single one.  Just think of it though,
when you add all the little taxes up we probably are paying close to 50
- 60% tax rates.  Think of it, the internet is partially funded by our
INCOME tax, and they add an extra tax to it on our phone bill and call
it as such.  Think of it MOST OF THE MAJOR carriers in the US
MCI, SPRINT, AT&T are the PROVIDERS of internet connectivity and we pay
taxes to them already?  Is that about triple or four times taxed there?

I just hope that we do not have a major revolt, against the taxes and
the government.  *IF* we do I am willing to BET if it is really bad like
the revolts WAY back to the time of the Boston Tea Party the UN will
step in and send the MIlitary (US) and say control those folks.  I hope
I do not live to see that.

I will Continue to pay my taxes, and I will continue to vote for who I
think can do the job.  I will start working on getting a business
running so that I can take advantage of all the tax breaks of running a
business.  BUT I will keep it all legal.  That is the only way to get
things going better for yourself is to own your own business, and make
it small enough that it can be just you and your family.


					- lhe




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Chip Mefford 
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 07:24:57 +0800
To: Dave Emery 
Subject: Re: Mobile phone tracking, pagers, etc
In-Reply-To: <19980917222329.A1364@die.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





Actually, 

there seems to be a screw up out  there.

Right now, one can go down the 7/11, and pay 
cash for a prepaid cellphone, and renew it with 
cellphone time cards also purchased with cash.

No paperwork, NONE.

I have one.

While all of the technology applies, and certainly it is possible
to determine things by analyzing calling habits, I can't see how one
can easily determine who has cellphone #blahblahblahblahblah when 
you just bought a box at an out of town 7/11 during the breakfast
rush with cash.

Esp if one doesn't make a lot of calls.

On Thu, 17 Sep 1998, Dave Emery wrote:

> On Thu, Sep 17, 1998 at 11:56:02AM -0700, Matthew James Gering wrote:
> > 
> > Regarding the tracking of mobile phones, are all current types of phones
> > susceptible?
> > 
> > There was a recent post here regarding tracking of GSM phones.
> > TDMA/CDMA, analog/digital, PCS-band, etc, are they all equally capable
> > of being tracked?
> 
> 	All the wireless standards I am aware of allow for registration
> and polling phones to find out if they are on and available without
> ringing them. This provides silent location information to the nearest
> cell of a phone merely turned on, location  which may be hundreds of
> feet in tightly congested urban areas and tens of square miles in
> suburban and less populated areas.   Some system operators apparently
> use this feature with all active phones to relieve congestion on paging
> channels, while others do not actively track phones not being used
> except in certain situations or parts of the network.   Of course
> location to a cell is always available during a call...
> 
> 	The FCC has mandated that this cell-granularity location
> information be made available to E-911 centers on emergency calls, and
> there may be some situations in which it is currently made available to
> domestic law enforcement under other circumstances, though CALEA
> restricts such availability without warrents.  Whether and under what
> circumstances law enforcement can request a poll be transmitted
> (re-registration) to locate a silent but powered phone is less clear.  
> It would seem that CALEA forbids this, but what in fact is the practice
> by such agencies as the FBI working quietly with cell carriers in places
> such as NYC is less clear.
> 
> 	In the future FCC rules will require that all E-911 calling
> wireless phones be located to 125 meters 67% of the time.  There are
> proposals to do this with differential time of arrival (DTOA)
> or other direction finding techniques (apparently a hard problem
> in cities with lots of multipath propagation due to reflections)
> that work passively on some or all cell calls and registrations
> (thus allowing tracking of everybody), or by cooperation with the
> cellphone handset that could be only turned on when the user wished
> to be located (an E-911 emergency) and disabled otherwise.   One
> version of this would use GPS rather than ranging or other techniques
> to determine position relative to the cell sites.    Of course all
> the user disaablable  techniques such as GPS and DTOA done in the handset
> firmware only will work with future cell firmware and hardware
> and not legacy handsets, and because of this may not be acceptable
> to the FCC.
> 
> 	There are some distinctions between CDMA, GSM, analog and TDMA
> (non GSM), in respects to exactly how easy it is to implement precision
> location meeting the FCC spec passively and on all calls at all times.
> Apparently CDMA with its very tight power control to minimize the near-far
> problem makes it fairly awkward to reliably triangulate position from
> multiple sites since the mobile may be only detectable at one site
> at any time...  What this means in practice is that some wireless
> technologies are more likely to require some definate active firmware
> intervention to do precision location, whilst others may allow it
> with no special intervention.   If the FCC allows this intervention
> to be enabled by a user, this may provide some opportunity for
> location privacy.
> 
> 
> > 
> > However pagers are not, correct? They just broadcast an entire area to
> > page instead of the pager keeping the network informed of their
> > location.
> 
> 	The one way pagers work this way.  The guaranteed delivery two
> way pagers do support registration and will know the location of
> the pager after a page has been sent to it and any time the system
> wants to determine it.   This location will be quite coarse with current
> two way (reFlex) pagers with cell sites some distance apart, but 
> DF techniques are quite possible and could be implemented by law
> enforcement or spooks or other interested groups.  Unlike wireless phones
> there is no current FCC requirement for positioning information distribution
> or precision positioning infrastructure, so two way pagers aren't
> likeyly to be routinely located accurately any time soon.
> 
> 	Of course most modern wireless phones support paging message
> delivery, so more and more people will be using wireless phones with
> the FCC mandated tracking accuracy for paging...
> > 
> > One thing I have long wondered: Why don't they make phones that
> > "wake-up" by a paging signal and then accept the call? It might increase
> > the connect time significantly, but it would also increase the potential
> > stand-by time indefinitely, and the location of the user is only exposed
> > when calls are in progress, not while the phone is on stand-by.
> > 
> 	Wireless phones do currently work this way.  They listen to the
> forward control channel for a paging message that says they have got a
> call coming in and only then do they transmit.  The amount of power used
> in transmitting would quickly use up the battery if they continuously
> broadcast.  The problem with cellphone location is that they can also be
> paged with a registration request that does not cause them to ring
> or show any evidence of transmitting, but sends back a brief message
> burst (not using much battery).   This can be made to happen every
> so often, or only when polled.
> 
> 
> > Are there any paging services (particularly alpha paging) that work on a
> > global scale? You would think daily pager rental service (esp. at
> > airports) would be popular. You could have an email address, even a
> > static phone number, that could re-route messages to any pager that you
> > happen to have at the time (PSTN-IP-PSTN, or even easier if the pager
> > service gives SMTP addresses, which most do these days).
> > 
> 	There are nationwide pager services that broadcast your pages
> over very wide areas or depend on registration to locate you down to
> a smaller area.  But yes, you can get paged anywhere in the US and
> several other countries.  And the new LEO satellite technology will
> allow paging over whole continents or potentially anywhere in the world.
> 
> 
> > Similarly a PSTN-IP-PSTN interface for voice could give you a static
> > phone number that you could dynamically forward anywhere untraceably.
> 
> 	The LEAs don't like this concept, and one of the provisions of
> the CALEA wiretap stuff is providing tracing of calls forwarded so you can't
> do this....
> 
> 
> -- 
> 	Dave Emery N1PRE,  die@die.com  DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass. 
> PGP fingerprint = 2047/4D7B08D1 DE 6E E1 CC 1F 1D 96 E2  5D 27 BD B0 24 88 C3 18
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Arnold G. Reinhold" 
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 07:14:12 +0800
To: Robert Hettinga 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 12:38 AM -0400 9/18/98, Robert Hettinga wrote:
>I spoke at the Electronic Payments Forum here in Boston today, and,
>tomorrow, the keynote for tomorrow's lunch is Ira Magaziner.
...
>
>Anyway, In light of more recent crypto-shenanigans from Billary, and the
>fact that this thing's a small crowd, I figured I'd ask if anyone on these
>lists had a question they wanted me to ask him.
>

One question I'd like asked is whether the US Gov will approve 56-bit RC-4
for export on the same terms as 56-bit DES. That would allow export
versions of web browsers to be upgraded painlessly, making international
e-commerce 64 thousand times more secure than existing 40-bit browsers.
(56-bit DES browsers would require every merchant to upgrade their SSL
servers and introduce a lot of unneeded complexity.)

Arnold Reinhold





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 08:16:50 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: DCS-NY Initial Meeting on September 8th
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


From: "DCS-NY Announcements" 
To: "recipient list suppressed" 
Subject: DCS-NY Initial Meeting on September 8th
Reply-To: perry@piermont.com
Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108)
Date: 17 Sep 1998 14:05:02 -0400
Lines: 103


[If you know of people who may be interested in this meeting, please
feel free to forward this message to them.]

I am pleased to announce the second luncheon meeting of the Digital
Commerce Society of New York (DCS-NY), to be held on Tuesday, October
13th at 12:00. If you are interested in attending, please RSVP and
send in your check (as explained below) as quickly as possible. We
have relatively little time to make arrangements, and need to have a
solid idea of the number of attendees by Friday the 25th of
September.

This Month's Luncheon Speaker:

 Stuart Feldman, IBM Institute for Advanced Commerce, IBM T.J.
 Watson Research Center

 Topic: Future Directions in Electronic Commerce

 Stuart Feldman will delve into a half dozen major themes for long-term
 research in electronic commerce. These areas will take years to resolve
 at a research level and even longer to achieve full impact in the world
 economy. They include privacy, the evolving marketplace on several time
 scales, the rise of dynamic businesses and electronic haggling, improved
 relationships to customers, and the systems underpinnings needed to
 support the vast new opportunities and capabilities of electronic
 commerce. Stuart Feldman is Director of IBM's Institute for Advanced
 Commerce. The Institute is dedicated to creating new technologies for
 support of e-commerce as well as pursuing fundamental issues in
 e-commerce. He is also the author of the original "make" and "f77."


WHAT IS DCS-NY?

As some of you probably know, Robert Hettinga has been running a group
called the Digital Commerce Society of Boston for over three years.
DCSB meets once a month for lunch at the Harvard Club in Boston to
hear a speaker and discuss the implications of rapidly emerging
internet and cryptographic technologies on finance and commerce --
"Digital Commerce", in short.

The Digital Commerce Society of New York (DCS-NY) is a spin-off of
DCSB.  We intend to meet the second Tuesday of each month for lunch
at the Harvard Club in New York, and conduct meetings much like those
of DCSB. Our organizing meeting in September was attended by a wide
variety of professionals involved in the business, technical and legal
sides of the emerging world of digital commerce.

If you are interested in attending our next luncheon meeting, please
follow the directions located below. If you merely wish to be added to
our e-mail meeting announcements list, you may send your e-mail
address to "dcs-ny-rsvp@piermont.com".


Perry

PS We would like to thank John McCormack for his invaluable assistance in
procuring the venue for our meetings.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

HOW TO RSVP:

The meeting will start at 12:00 noon on October 13th at the Harvard Club,
which located at 27 West 44th St. in Manhattan.

The cost of the luncheon is $49.00.

To RSVP, please:
A) Send a check for $49.00 (payable to "The Harvard Club of New York") to:

	Harry S. Hawk
	DCS-NY LUNCHEON
	Piermont Information Systems, Inc.
	175 Adams St., #9G
	Brooklyn, New York  11201

Please include along with your check:
1) The name of the person attending
2) Their daytime phone number
3) Their e-mail address

B) Send an email message to dcs-ny-rsvp@piermont.com indicating that
you have sent your check, so that we can inform the Harvard Club of
the number of people who will be attending.

Please note that the Harvard Club dress code requires jacket and tie
for men and comparable attire for women.

If you have special dietary requirements, please check with us by
email before you RSVP.

Making final arrangements for our room requires that we have a good
idea of how many attendees we will have. Because of this, it is very
important that you RSVP quickly so that we will be able to get a
larger room if necessary.

We are looking forward to seeing you!

----------------------------------------------------------------------


Perry

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 08:18:55 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: THE WHITE HOUSE: Briefing on encryption ( X-files ?? )
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


From: "Blair Anderson" 
To: "Robert Hettinga" 
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 98 11:07:29 +1300
Reply-To: "Blair Anderson" 
Priority: Normal
MIME-Version: 1.0
Subject: THE WHITE HOUSE: Briefing on encryption ( X-files ?? )

THE WHITE HOUSE: Briefing on encryption

M2 PRESSWIRE-17 September 1998-THE WHITE HOUSE: Office of the Press
Secretary -- Briefing on encryption
(C)1994-98 M2 COMMUNICATIONS LTD

* Briefing by the Vice President, Deputy Chief of Staff John Podesta,
Principal Associate Deputy Attorney General
Robert Litt, Assistant Director of the FBI Carolyn Morris, Under Secretary
of Commerce William Reinsch, Deputy
Secretary of Defense John Hamre, and Deputy National Security Advisor Jim
Steinberg

* The Briefing Room

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Good morning. While my colleagues are coming in here,
let me acknowledge them. John
Podesta is going to take over the podium after I complete my statement, and
he is joined by Bob Litt of the Justice
Department, Bill Reinsch of the Commerce Department -- Under Secretary for
the Export Administration -- and John
Hamre, Deputy Secretary of Defense.

I also want to acknowledge Carolyn Morris of the FBI; Barbara McNamara of
the National Security Agency; John
Gordon, Deputy Director of the CIA. And you all should know that this
process, the results of -- the interim results of
which I'm announcing here, is a process that has been run principally by
John Podesta and Jim Steinberg, Deputy at the
National Security Council. And I also want to thank Sally Katzen at the NEC
and David Beier on my staff for the work
that they and many others have done on this.

Some of you who have followed this issue know that it is probably one of
the single, most difficult and complex issues
that you can possibly imagine. But we've made progress, and we're here this
morning to announce an important new
action that will protect our national security and our safety, and advance
our economic interests and safeguard our basic
rights and values in this new Information Age.

The Information Age has brought us the Internet, an inter-connected global
economy and the promise of connecting us
all to the same vast world of knowledge. But with that exciting promise
comes new challenges. We must make sure that
in the Information Age you get information about the rest of the world and
not the other way around. We must ensure
that new technology does not mean new and sophisticated criminal and
terrorist activity which leaves law enforcement
outmatched -- we can't allow that to happen. And we must ensure that the
sensitive financial and business transactions
that now cruise along the information superhighway are 100 percent safe in
cyberspace.

Balancing these needs is no simple task, to say the least. That is why, in
taking the next step toward meeting these
complex goals, we worked very closely with members of Congress from both
parties, House and Senate; with industry;
with our law enforcement community and with our national security
community. And as we move forward we want to
keep working closely with all who share a stake in this issue -- especially
law enforcement -- to constantly assess and
reassess the effectiveness of our actions in this fast changing medium.

Today I'm pleased to announce a new federal policy for the encryption and
protection of electronic communication, a
policy that dramatically increases privacy and security for families and
businesses without endangering out national
security.

Beginning today, American companies will be able to use encryption programs
of unlimited strength when
communicating between most countries. Health, medical, and insurance
companies will be able to use far stronger
electronic protection for personal records and information. Law enforcement
will still have access to criminally-related
information under strict and appropriate legal procedures. And we will
maintain our full ability to fight terrorism and
monitor terrorist activity that poses a grave danger to American citizens.

With this new announcement, we will protect the privacy of average
Americans, because privacy is a basic value in the
Information Age, indeed in any age. We will give industry the full
protection that it needs to enable electronic
commerce to grow and to thrive. And we will give law enforcement the
ability to fight 21st century crimes with 21st
century technology, so our families and businesses are safe, but on-line
outlaws are not safe.

In just a moment you will hear more of the details of this new policy, but
I want to conclude by saying that this policy
does reflect one of the greatest challenges of these new times. And to
state it broadly, it's a challenge of how we can
harness powerful new technology while protecting our oldest and most
cherished values, such as privacy and safety.

I'm grateful to those who have worked so hard to reach this balance. And
with today's announcement I believe that all
families and businesses have reason to feel safer, more secure and more
confident as we approach the 21st century.

And now I'd like to turn things over to White House Deputy Chief of Staff
John Podesta.

Q Mr. Vice President, before you go, can you tell us what you say to
Democratic lawmakers who say the President
ought to resign?

THE VICE PRESIDENT: I disagree.

Q How about the release of that tape? What do you think --

THE VICE PRESIDENT: The President is going to have a press conference
shortly and I'm sure that you will not miss
the opportunity at this national security press conference with the leader
of a foreign country to raise all these questions.

Q What about the videotape, should it be released?

Q It was staged by the White House -- you know that, don't you?

MR. PODESTA: Guess what? I'm here to talk about encryption. Okay. I can see
the front row leaving here. (Laughter.)
As the Vice President noted, Jim Steinberg and I have co-chaired our
process in this matter. I volunteered for that duty
because of my well-known fascination with The X Files, which most of you
know about.

As you know, this is an important and challenging issue that affects many
of our interests in our society. And over the
past year we've promoted a balanced approach to the issue, working with all
segments of our government and working
with industry to find a policy that promotes electronic commerce, preserves
privacy, protects national security and law
enforcement interests, and permits U.S. industry to secure global markets.

Recognizing the importance of moving this issue forward, last March the
Vice President asked us to intensify our
dialogue with U.S. industry, to bring industry's technical expertise to
bear on this issue with the hope of finding more
innovative ways that we might assist law enforcement. We appreciate the
efforts of Congress, the law enforcement
community and particularly the industry groups.

I would note the Computer Systems Policy Project and the Americans for
Computer Privacy, who have been in an
intensive dialogue with us over the past many months to foster an
environment that has allowed us to come up with a
policy which we believe has balanced the elements that are necessary in
this regard.

I think all the stakeholders in this process, on our side, as well as on
private industry's side, now have a greater
appreciation of the issues and intend to continue the dialogue, which I
think we're most pleased by. Again, I think some
of the people here from industry will be available at the stakeout later to
take some comment.

Based on the ideas discussed among the various stakeholders, today we're
proposing an update to our policies that
we've announced in the past. I'm going to serve kind of as M.C. We're going
to start off with Bob Litt from the Justice
Department and Carol Morris, who I asked to join us, from the FBI, to talk
about the law enforcement-FBI concerns.
Then we're going to turn to Bill Reinsch from the Commerce Department to
talk about export control and electronic
commerce. And finally you'll hear from Dr. Hamre from the Defense
Department. I might ask Jim also to join us up
here.

Before I give up the floor to Bob and Carol, though, I want to stress that
encryption policy is an ongoing process. It's
one of adaptation; it's an evolutionary process. We intend to continue the
dialogue, and over the course of the next
year, determine what further updates are necessary as we work with industry
to try to, again, come up with a policy that
balances national security, law enforcement, and the real needs for privacy
and security in electronic commerce.

Thank you. Let me turn it over to Bob.

MR. LITT: Thank you, John. Good afternoon. The Justice Department and the
FBI and law enforcement in general is
supportive, very supportive of today's announcement on the updating of our
export controls on encryption products,
particularly with respect to those products that allow law enforcement to
obtain lawful access to the plain text of
encrypted information.

We have been very encouraged over the last few months by industry's efforts
to work with us to develop and market
strong encryption products that provide law-abiding citizens with the
ability to protect the privacy of their
communications and their electronically-stored data, while at the same time
maintaining law enforcement's ability to
ensure public safety when these products, when they become commercially
available, are used in furtherance of
serious criminal activity.

Our goal is through whatever means to ensure that when we have the lawful
authority to take steps to protect public
safety, we have the ability to do so. And we have been working
cooperatively with industry for many months to
develop approaches that will deal with that.

Carolyn Morris will now talk a little bit about the technical support
center that is being proposed.

MS. MORRIS: Thank you very much, Bob.

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. We in federal, state, and local law
enforcement, are pleased with the
administration's support to establish a technical support center. This
center will provide federal, state, and local law
enforcement with the resources and the technical capabilities we need to
fulfill our investigative responsibilities.

In light of strong, commercially available encryption products that are
being proliferated within the United States, and
when such products are used in the furtherance of serious criminal
activity, this center becomes very, very critical to
solving the encryption issues that we need to make cases. As a matter of
fact, the FBI has already begun planning
activities of this critical technical support center in anticipation of the
availability of funds.

The United States federal, local and state law enforcement community looks
forward to a cooperative partnership with
American industry, the Congress and the administration to ensure that this
technical support center becomes a reality in
the near future. With this center the American people can be assured that
federal, state, and local law enforcement has
the necessary resources and tools we need to fulfill our public safety
mission.

Thank you very much.

UNDER SECRETARY REINSCH: With respect to export controls, the
administration is updating its policy in three
areas: Our existing policy and some revisions there, an expansion with
respect to certain sectors, and an expansion with
respect to so-called recoverable products. And let me address each of these
separately. In keeping with the
administration's reinvention initiatives, I'm going to try to do it in
plain language -- or plain English, So that those of you
that speak the vocabulary of encryption may find it to elementary, but we
can go back and do it again in another
language, if you want, later on in questions.

With respect to our existing policy, we have for two years ending this
December, permitted the export of 56-bit
products after an initial one-time review without further review by the
government. What we're announcing today is the
maintenance of that window permanently. And so 56-bit products will be
freed from export controls after a one-time
review, in perpetuity, not ending at the end of this year. We are, however,
removing the requirement for key recovery
plans or key recovery commitments to be provided in return for that change,
which was the initial condition that we
extracted.

In addition, we are continuing to permit the export of key recovery
products -- products that contain those features --
without restraint worldwide. We are, however, going to simplify
significantly our regulations that relate to those
exports. In particular, we're going to eliminate the need for six-month
progress reports for the plans that have been
submitted, and we're going to eliminate the requirement for any prior
reporting of key recovery agent information. For
those of you that follow the regulations in detail, that means we're going
to eliminate Supplement Five of our
regulations on these matters.

Now, with respect to sectors, we're making some new innovations in four
areas. Some of you may be familiar with the
fact that some time ago we announced expanded treatment of encryption
products for export to banks and financial
institutions. And what we did at that time, briefly, was to permit the
export of encryption products of any length, any bit
length, with or without key recovery features to banks and financial
institutions in a list of 45 countries.

What we are announcing today is, first, that we are adding insurance
companies to the definition of financial institutions,
so insurance companies will be treated the same way under this policy as
banks and other financial institutions are now.
In addition, we are providing the same kind of treatment for exports of
these encryption products to the health and
medical sector operating in the same set of countries. We are excluding
from that biochemical and pharmaceutical
producers. But the rest of the health and medical sector will be the
beneficiary of the same kind of treatment.

In addition, we are providing also this expanded treatment for that country
group to on-line merchants that are operating
in those countries. That means that for products that are like
client-server applications, like SSL, will be able to be
exported to those destinations.

All these things will take place under what we call license exception,
which means after initial one-time review to
determine whether or not your product is, in fact, what you say it is, they
can then go without any further review or
intervention by the government to those locations. In addition, there is
always the option in the export control system of
coming in with an application to export these kinds of products to other
destinations beyond the ones that I'm talking
about right now, and those will be reviewed one by one on their merits.

Finally, with respect to what we have come to refer to as a class of
so-called recovery capable or recoverable products,
and these are the products that, among others, include what has become
known as the doorbell products, which are
products that, among other things, will deal with the development of local
area or wide area networks and the
transmission of e-mail and other data over networks -- we are going to
permit the export of those products under a
presumption of approval and an export licensing arrangement to a list of 42
countries. And within those countries we are
going to permit that export to commercial firms only within those
countries. And both in that case and in the case of the
on-line merchants that I referred to a few minutes ago, we are going to
exclude manufacturers or distributors of
munitions items, I think for obvious reasons.

We can go into further details later, if you would like. I think for those
of you that are interested in the nitty-gritty of all
this stuff, BXA intends to post all the details, including the country
lists, on its website and we should have that up later
today.

Thank you.

DEPUTY SECRETARY HAMRE: Good morning. I'm here to speak on behalf of the
national security community. I'm
joined today by my enormously capable counterparts and colleagues, Deputy
Director Barbara McNamara for the
National Security Agency; and Deputy Director John Gordon from the Central
Intelligence Agency.

The national security establishment strongly supports this step forward. We
think this is a very important advance in a
crucial area for our security in the future.

We in DOD had four goals when we entered these discussions. First was to
strengthen our ability to do electronic
commerce. We're the largest company in the world. Every month we write
about 10 million paychecks. We write about
800,000 travel vouchers. One of our finance centers disburses $45 million
an hour. We are a major, major force in
business. And for that reason, we can't be efficient unless we can become
fully electronic, and electronic commerce is
essential for us. And this is an enormous step forward.

Second, we must have strong encryption and a security structure for that in
order to protect ourselves in cyberspace.
Many of you know that we have experienced a number of cyber attacks during
the last year. This will undoubtedly
increase in the future. We need to have strong encryption because we're
operating over public networks; 95 percent of
all of our communications now go over public infrastructure -- public
telephone lines, telephone switches, computer
systems, et cetera. To protect ourselves in that public environment, we
must have encryption and we must have a key
recovery system for ourselves.

The third goal that we had was to help protect America's infrastructure.
One of the emerging national security
challenges of the next decade is to protect this country, the homeland
defense of this country, against attack. We must
have strong encryption in order to do that, because most of this
infrastructure now is being managed through distributed
computer-based management systems, and this is an important step forward.

Finally, it is very important that the Department of Defense and our
colleagues in the national security establishment
have the ability to prosecute our national security interests overseas.
Terrorists and rogue nations are increasingly using
these tools to communicate with each other and to lay their plans. We must
have the ability to deal with that. And so this
policy, it's a balanced and structured approach to be able to deal with all
four of those problems.

UNDER SECRETARY REINSCH: I apologize -- in listing my changes, I neglected
one very important item that I want
to go back to, and that is, in the sector area we are also announcing today
the ability to export strong encryption of any
bit length, with or without key recovery features, to subsidiaries of U.S.
companies to all destinations in the world with
the exception of the seven terrorist nations.

MR. PODESTA: Okay, I think we're happy to take your questions now. If you
could identify whom you're addressing,
because there is a variety of expertise. And I would like to introduce one
other person, Charlotte Knepper from the
NSC staff, who has been instrumental in pulling this all together.

Q John, this is a question for you. In October '96 and other White House
statements on encryption, there has usually
been a line also addressing the domestic side, saying that all Americans
remain free to use any strength encryption. I
didn't notice anything like that in today's announcement. Are there any
conditions under which the White House would
back domestic restrictions on encryption?

MR. PODESTA: We haven't changed our policy, and the previous statements are
certainly intact. We have made a
number of policy statements in the past, since this administration came
into office, and I think that you should view this
as a step forward, building on the policies that we have put before the
American public in the past.

Q John, could I ask you one question about an un-encrypted matter?

MR. PODESTA: Maybe. (Laughter.)

Q Democrats on the Hill are now saying, and John Kerry is saying that the
President's actions absolutely call for some
sort of punishment. What are Democrats telling you about what they feel
must be done at this point?

MR. PODESTA: Well, I think I'm not going to stand here and take a lot of
questions, but I'm going to give special
dispensation, as a Catholic, today -- which is I'm going to return your
phone calls later. But in deference to the people
up here I think we'll handle it that way.

But in specific response, I'll take one, which is that I think that we had
a number of productive meetings with
Democrats on both sides of the Hill yesterday. They view the President as a
person who has led on the issues that are
important to them, and I think what they want to do is get back to having
him speak out and be a leader on the issues of
education and the health care bill of rights, on saving Social Security.
And I think they pointed at that and wanted to
work with us on that.

I think with regard to the question that you posed with regard to Senator
Kerry, I think that's a matter that they are
debating amongst themselves more than they are debating with the White
House. I think it's probably presumptuous for
us at this point to offer them assistance or guidance. I mean, the
President has said that what he has done was wrong;
he's apologized for it; he's asked for forgiveness. He is moving forward.
And I think that this debate is going on, on
Capitol Hill, but it's largely going on amongst members themselves.

Q We haven't heard many of them say they want to get back to the work at hand.

MR. STEINBERG: You heard John, and I'm going to leave it there.

Let me just add a word in response, in connection with the domestic
controls issue. I think one of the lessons that we've
learned from this exercise is that -- actually, two lessons -- one, that
trying to balance the various interests and equities
in this is much less of a zero sum gain than I think some began to look at
the question. That is, you heard from Dr.
Hamre and others that many of the interests involved have common interests
in making sure that we have secure and
effective means of dealing with communications and stored data.

And so we found, by looking in a very pragmatic way, that there were ways
to solve these problems without very, kind
of, broad-based solutions. In particular, I think the idea that there's no
one-size-fits-all answer to the problems of
meeting the various needs informs the decisions that we reached -- that
there are a variety of different techniques that
respond to the different aspects of the industry, the different aspects of
the technology. I think that's what made the
progress possible today, is that industry, agencies and Congress sat down
together, pulled the problem apart, began to
look at its different components and began to fashion very pragmatic
solutions.

And so I think we came to this discussion with a spirit of not looking for
a kind of single or simple solution to the
problem but, rather, how do you tackle and meet the various needs. And I
think that's what led to this resolve.

Q Could you talk a little more about the on-line merchants part of it? I
mean, what do you have to do to qualify as an
on-line merchant? Do you have to register or can anybody sort of set
themselves up in business?

UNDER SECRETARY REINSCH: I think the simplest way to respond to that right
now is we'll have a definition in the
reg that will be very clear as to what the criteria are for qualification.
And those definitions have already been dealt with
and agreed to, so we should have them up on the web site this afternoon.

Q A question for Bill Reinsch. How do you handle, then, 128-bit, to which
the Department has given export -- or has
allowed to be exported after going through this review? Will 128 or things
above 56-bit, will they require a license or
will they still have to go through plans --

UNDER SECRETARY REINSCH: Well, with respect to the subsidiaries, the health
sector, the banks, the financial
institutions, the insurance companies, the on-line merchants, and the
recoverable products as in the universe defined --
no. In the case of all but the recoverable products, they will all go on
license exception, which means one-time review
and then out the door. With respect to recoverable products, they will come
in and go out pursuant to an export
licensing arrangement, where we'll have to do a little tailoring depending
upon the nature of the product. But there is a
presumption of approval for the 42 countries that I indicated.

And that's without reference to bit length -- 128 or more is all covered by
that. Now, if you want to export an 128-bit
product that is beyond any of those universes, then you would have to come
in for an individual license application.

Q A question for Mr. Litt. With regard to the technical support center,
when do you expect that to be in operation?

MR. LITT: I don't think we have a specific timetable yet. Obviously, it
would be helpful for us to have it up and
operational as soon as possible, but there are planning and budgetary
issues that have to be dealt with.

Q This is probably a question for Under Secretary Reinsch. The export
exceptions now are essentially going to U.S.
subsidiaries -- foreign subsidiaries of U.S. companies. I was wondering,
could you be a little more specific -- what size
company, what kind of company will be allowed to export powerful crypto to
its foreign subsidiaries?

UNDER SECRETARY REINSCH: That doesn't make any difference. The universe is
determined by the end user, not
by the nature of the American company. But it is not -- while part of this
relates to subsidiaries of U.S. companies, that is
correct, we also intend, on a case-by-case basis, to provide for favorable
treatment for export of the same kind of thing
to strategic partners of U.S. companies -- those foreign companies that are
engaged in a closer, say, joint venture, that
kind of relationship.

Well, I think that's it.

Q What about foreign companies that have U.S. subsidiaries, like Seaman's
or -- or Chrysler -- can they get this
encryption?

UNDER SECRETARY REINSCH: Well, keep in mind, there are multiple universes
here. If you're talking about the
financial institutions, the banks and the insurance companies, those aren't
necessarily American financial institutions.
That's for export to any financial institution, and for their use in any of
their branches, aside from the terrorist countries.
This is true for the health sector; this is true for on-line merchants as
well. Those are not restricted to U.S. companies.

Obviously, if we're going to have a requirement for U.S. subs, it relates
to U.S. subs, and wouldn't affect the examples
you've described. Now, with respect to recoverable products, which actually
is one of the areas where the companies
you mentioned would probably be looking because they'd be looking to build
a network among their various offices,
affiliates of subsidiaries, dealers if necessary, worldwide, the
recoverable provisions that I described could be exported
to those companies within the territorial universe I described -- the 42
countries.

Thank you very much.
Blair Anderson  (Blair@technologist.com)

International Consultant in Electronic Commerce,
Encryption and Electronic Rights Management

   "Techno Junk and Grey Matter"  (HTTP://WWW.NOW.CO.NZ [moving servers,
currently inactive])
   50 Wainoni Road, Christchurch, New Zealand

          phone 64 3 3894065
          fax     64 3 3894065

Member 	Digital Commerce Society of Boston

---------------------------- Caught in the Net for 25 years
----------------------------

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 08:22:13 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Sept. 19 column - Clintonites reject reality
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 23:24:28 -0600
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 22:23:36 -0700 (PDT)
X-Sender: vin@dali.lvrj.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
To: vinsends@ezlink.com
From: Vin_Suprynowicz@lvrj.com (Vin Suprynowicz)
Subject: Sept. 19 column - Clintonites reject reality
Resent-From: vinsends@ezlink.com
X-Mailing-List:  archive/latest/557
X-Loop: vinsends@ezlink.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vinsends-request@ezlink.com


    FROM MOUNTAIN MEDIA
    FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE DATED SEPT. 19, 1998
    THE LIBERTARIAN, By Vin Suprynowicz
    It's the government schools, stupid

    Bill Clinton is a fake. As many Americans who had been taken in by him
looked on in wide-eyed horror on Sept. 10 and 11, 1998, this emotionally
hollow creature tried again and again to mimic precisely the right catch in
the voice, precisely the right words, the wiping away of a tear at just the
right moment, in what quickly became known as the Monica Lewinsky
"Apology-thon."

  Just as our penultimate national office manager, George Bush, spoke with
an impatient lack of comprehension about "the vision thing" folks seemed to
want from him, so does Bill Clinton fail to understand the horror with
which it is finally sinking in to about 35 percent of the American populace
that this man (start ital)has(end ital) no core emotions ... he has merely
been miming them all these years.

  But what should really frighten us is not the fact that Bill Clinton is
thus revealed to be the moral and emotional equivalent of one of those
human-looking androids in the science fictions movies, unmasked in a
now-familiar scene in which they begin to stutter and shudder, and finally
go cartwheeling around the spacecraft spewing white hydraulic fluid.

  No, what should frighten us is that only 35 percent of Americans seem to
care. Sixty-five percent say: "So what? All that moral and emotional stuff
is so much make-believe, anyway. Doesn't everybody lie? Doesn't everybody
fake it?"

  Where did this race of pod people come from?

  From the government schools, stupid.

  For years, folks have been dismissing the direst of warnings about the
"public schooling" scam with exasperated disbelief.

  Schools don't fight duplicity, cheating, drug use, and scorn for
achievement, argued New York State Teacher of the Year John Taylor Gatto in
his slim but estimable little volume "Dumbing Us Down" ($12.45, New Society
Publishers, 4527 Springfield Ave., Philadelphia 19143.) Instead, Mr. Gatto
discovered after a lengthy and distinguished career, these things are what
the schools actually (start ital)teach(end ital).

  "Put kids in a class and they will live out their lives in an invisible
cage, isolated from their chance at community," Gatto warns. "Interrupt
kids with bells and horns all the time and they will learn that nothing is
important; force them to plead for the natural right to the toilet and they
will become liars and toadies; ridicule them and they will retreat from
human association; shame them and they will find a hundred ways to get
even" through exactly the kind of addictive, immature and dependent
pathologies we expect from any inmates -- drugs, violence, random sex.


    #  #  #

  What caused his teachers to praise someone like the young Bill Clinton,
who didn't just dodge the physical risks of Vietnam, but who (as some are
only now discovering) apparently avoided all the emotional risks and
commitments which help a boy mature into a man, leaving a 50-year-old
president at the approximate level of emotional development of a giggling,
groping 13-year-old, promising to "marry" his date to the sock hop if
she'll let him cop a feel?

  Apparently no one believes Mr. Gatto. But the great novelist and
philosopher Ayn Rand further explained the process by which children's
normal mental and emotional development are now systematically and
deliberately crippled in a 1970 essay called "The Comprachicos," available
in the Meridian paperback "The New Left:"

  "At the age of three, when his mind is almost as plastic as his bones,
when his need and desire to know are more intense than they will ever be
again, a child is delivered -- by a Progressive nursery school -- into the
midst of a pack of children as helplessly ignorant as himself. ... He wants
to learn; he is told to play. Why? No answer is given. He is made to
understand -- by the emotional vibrations permeating the atmosphere of the
place ... that the most important thing in this peculiar world is not to
know, but to get along with the pack. Why? No answer is given.

  "He does not know what to do; he is told to do anything he feels like. He
picks up a toy; it is snatched away from him by another child; he is told
that he must learn to share. Why? No answer is given. He sits alone in a
corner; he is told that he must join the others. Why? No answer is given.
He approaches a group, reaches for their toys and is punched in the nose.
He cries, in angry bewilderment; the teacher throws her arms around him and
gushes that she loves him. ...

  "The teacher's mechanical crib-side manner -- the rigid smile, the cooing
tone of voice ... the coldly unfocused, unseeing eyes -- add up in the
child's mind to a word he will soon learn: phony. He knows it is a
disguise; a disguise hides something; he experiences suspicion -- and fear.

  "A small child is mildly curious about, but not greatly interested in,
other children of his own age. In daily association, they merely bewilder
him. He is not seeking equals, but cognitive superiors, people who (start
ital)know(end ital). Observe that young children prefer the company of
older children or of adults, that they hero-worship and try to emulate an
older brother or sister. A child needs to reach a certain development, a
sense of his own identity, before he can enjoy the company of his 'peers.'
But he is thrown into their midst and told to adjust.

 "Adjust to (start ital)what?(end ital) To anything. To cruelty, to
injustice, to blindness, to silliness, to pretentiousness, to snubs, to
mockery, to treachery, to lies ... and to the overwhelming , overpowering
presence of Whim as the ruler of everything. ...

  "After a while, he adjusts. ... He learns that regardless of what he does
-- whether his action is right or wrong, honest or dishonest, sensible or
senseless -- if the pack disapproves, he is wrong and his desire is
frustrated; if the pack approves, then anything goes. Thus the embryo of
his concept of morality shrivels before it is born," and is replaced with
the realization that the objective reality of achievement is worthless,
that everything of value is instead gained through the emotional
manipulation of the pack, Ms. Rand explained.

  "Cut off from reality, which he has not learned fully to grasp, he is
plunged into a world of fantasy playing. He may feel a dim uneasiness, at
first: to him, it is not imagining, it is lying. But he loses that
distinction and get into the swing. The wilder his fantasies, the warmer
the teacher's approval and concern. ... He begins to believe his own
fantasies. ... Why bother facing problems if they can be solved by
make-believe? ...

  "The teacher prods him to self-expression, but he knows that this is a
trap; he is being put on trial before the pack, to see whether he fits or
not. He senses that he is constantly expected to feel, but he does not feel
anything -- only fear, confusion, helplessness and boredom. ...

  "So he learns to hide his feelings, to simulate them, to pretend, to
evade -- to repress. The stronger his fear, the more aggressive his
behavior; the more uncertain his assertions, the louder his voice. From
playacting, he progresses easily to the skill of putting on an act. ... He
cannot know by what imperceptible steps he, too, has become a phony."


    #   #   #

  Is it really so hard to see how an "education" system that grades
children on group projects and "how they fit in with others," that flatters
them that all their uninformed opinions are equally, indiscriminately
worthy of "discussion groups," that rejects the tried and true practice of
encouraging the majority to aspire to match the achievements of the best
and the brightest, instead naming (start ital)every(end ital) child
"Student of the Month," could end up producing a Bill Clinton ... or 100
million Bill Clintons? Is it really any surprise that two whole American
generations are now schooled not in math, spelling, and grammar, but rather
in fantasy, deception, and manipulation?

  Can we really be surprised that they ignore evidence that the garbage men
pour all their sorted trash into the same trucks, insisting the exercise of
sorting green bottles from brown is still worthwhile if it "raises
everyone's consciousness"? That they snort at statistics proving cities
with gun bans actually have the highest rates of crime, or that one volcano
releases more "greenhouse gases" than 1,000 years of Freon? They they
instead insist it doesn't matter whether an "assault weapons ban" will
really reduce crime, or whether banning spray cans will really close the
"ozone hole," so long as jailing the violators of such freedom-crushing
edicts makes us all (start ital)feel better about ourselves(end ital),
since "at least we tried"?

  Should we really be surprised to hear them now, whining "What do you
want? Everyone has affairs. Everyone lies under oath." Or, as letter-writer
Bob Gore puts it in the Sept. 20 Las Vegas Review-Journal:

  "I feel like I'm living in a country that is collectively raising an
adolescent. Listen to Billy Clinton and his friends: 'I didn't do it.
Nobody saw me do it. You can't prove a thing. Everybody does it. It's no
worse than anybody else. Kenny is a snitch ... and he's an old meanie. I do
not have the five dollars that was on your dresser (I already spent it). I
have to answer all the tough questions. I know I burnt the house down, but
think of the new one we'll get. I'm sorry for what I did even though I
didn't do anything.' ...

 "We're living an episode of 'The Simpsons', and Bart's in charge," Mr.
Gore concludes. "I can't wait for this kid to move out -- as soon as he
grows up."


Vin Suprynowicz is the assistant editorial page editor of the Las Vegas
Review-Journal. Readers may contact him via e-mail at vin@lvrj.com. The
column is syndicated in the United States and Canada via Mountain Media
Syndications, P.O. Box 4422, Las Vegas Nev. 89127.

***


Vin Suprynowicz,   vin@lvrj.com

Education rears disciples, imitators, and routinists, not pioneers of
new ideas and creative geniuses.  The schools are not nurseries of
progress and improvement, but conservatories of tradition and unvarying
modes of thought. -- Ludwig von Mises

The most difficult struggle of all is the one within ourselves. Let us not
get accustomed and adjusted to these conditions. The one who adjusts ceases
to discriminate between good and evil.  He becomes a slave in body and
soul. Whatever may happen to you, remember always: Don't adjust! Revolt
against the reality! -- Mordechai Anielewicz, Warsaw, 1943

* * *

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Dan S. Camper" 
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 08:58:26 +0800
To: 
Subject: Re: THE WHITE HOUSE: Briefing on encryption ( X-files ?? )
Message-ID: <199809181400.JAA21600@smtp.austin.outernet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



What is the URL for the web site mentioned here?

Thanks,
DSC

>UNDER SECRETARY REINSCH: I think the simplest way to respond to that right
>now is we'll have a definition in the
>reg that will be very clear as to what the criteria are for qualification.
>And those definitions have already been dealt with
>and agreed to, so we should have them up on the web site this afternoon.


__________________________________________________________________________
Dan S. Camper                                    lordgrey@borrowedtime.com
Software Thaumaturgist
Borrowed Time, Inc.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 02:33:03 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Democracy...
Message-ID: <199809180728.JAA03448@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I woe the day that government and church are not seperated and I am forced
to side with one religion.  It would be another freedom wrongfully taken
from me.  I would fight back, the same way the country secured it's
independence the first time.  I take my freedom very seriously.  Facists
like you that want to distort the constitution to make introduce a
non-existant person at the top will hopefully get blasted down in the senate
as you have been before.  I would consider laws restricting my freedom as an
attack and will be forced to defend myself.

---"Brian B. Riley"  wrote:
>
> On 9/15/98 10:27 PM, Jaeger (Jaeger@hempseed.com)  passed this wisdom:
> 
> >
> >hey, would you care to show us where "seperation of church and state" is
> >to be found in the constitution/bill of rights?  absolute right and
> >wrong is not a religious belief (necessarily)..  your religious beliefs
> >do not affect the nature of reality.  there are absolute truths by
> 
>  [snip]
> 
> >> Ever heard of seperation of church and state? Democracy? the rights of
> >>
> >> the individual?  While you certainly have the right to practice your
> >> religion in what ever manner you so choose demanding that everyone
> >> else
> >> does, or that the president of the us of ais subject to you PERSONAL
> >> faith decisions is outragous
> 
>  The first amendment states only that there shall not be 'an 
> establishment of religion' it says nada about 'separation of church and 
> state.'  The intention was simple; that there would never be an 
> 'official' state religion. It didn't say religion had no place. They were 
> escaping a regime with an established state religion that used the 
> goverment to stamp out religious deviationism. That was the sole reason 
> for that clause in the 1st amendment.
> 
> Brian B. Riley --> http://members.macconnect.com/~brianbr
>  For PGP Keys  
> 
>    "...if you drink much from a bottle marked "poison."
>   and it is almost certain to disagree with you, sooner or later"
>              _Alice in Wonderland_: (Lewis Carroll)
> 
> 
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 00:27:24 +0800
To: Matthew James Gering 
Subject: Re: Mailboxes and Pseudonyms
In-Reply-To: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A192846AF@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980918093301.008e83c0@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 11:56 AM 9/17/98 -0700, Matthew James Gering wrote:
> BTW, why are most businesses so hostile to pseudonyms? 
> I go to rent a mailbox, paid 1 yr. in advance with cash, 
> and they still want two pieces of photo ID to copy.

Where do you live?  In the US, the Post Office has rules against
anybody running mailbox services without making sure that the
customers sign some forms - you not only have to acknowledge that
the Post Office doesn't forward first class mail addressed to
mailbox companies (semi-reasonable), but also (unreasonably)
demonstrate to the Post Office's satisfaction that you
really are the you living at some other location and you don't
mind having mail addressed to you sent to this mailbox.
Exactly what that means is up to the local Postmaster;
one town where I've rented a mailbox really doesn't care,
and another had a control freak Postmistress.

But if you live in California, it's worse.  There was a law passed
in about 1994 (AB185 or AB187?) that asserted that 
1) Many businesses in California are run from mailboxes
2) Many businesses in California have committed fraud
3) Therefore, we'll force anybody who rents a mailbox,
	business or not, to identify their True Name and True Address
	and appoint the mailbox service as an agent for service of process
	so we can bust them in case they use the mailbox for fraud.
The wording of the law was actually more blatantly annoying than that.
The exact amount of ID you have to produce is tied to the local
Post Office regulations, but also requires a picture ID.
The PO will accept major credit cards and SSN cards as ID,
and my mailbox vendor didn't really want either of those,
because she didn't want the liability of having private financial data
around in a file she has to keep readily accessible for inspection.

A year or two ago, California was also having problems with
women who were battered or otherwise trying to avoid violent
ex-husbands and ex-boyfriends being tracked to where they lived
through their mailbox addresses, and some legislator was pushing
a program that would get Certified Endangered Women a mailbox
using some kind of cutout program that would give them some privacy.
Would have made much more sense just to dump the recent law,
so everybody could have some privacy.
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mark Hedges 
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 11:48:19 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: RE: Democracy... (fwd)
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate answered:
>> From: Matthew James Gering 
>> There is no reason to think that a god does exist, so why would one even
>> need to think about or believe in the negative.
>
>There is no reason to believe one doesn't either. If we take your claim at
>face value you need to demonstrate your test that shows the irrelevancy
>of god. God is not a belief in a negative, another straw man, but rather
>a mechanism or expression of human psychology and the need for humans to
>find patterns (ie reason) in things.

Mr. Gering, you may have heard the argument that there is also no reason to
believe that you exist, except your sense impressions which can be proven
to be unreliable and easily falsified. The old 'disembodied nervous system
floating in a tank getting poked by graduate students' premise could
explain your entire range of perceptions of your childhood, schooling,
adolescence, growing up, eating pizza at the office, etc.

I wondered for a while, and then I threw it in the waste bin, because it's
pointless and a waste of energy to wonder whether or not I exist. I decided
to trust my sense impressions well enough to go to the movies and jog in
the mornings and go to work and write code.

I certainly do not stop living because there is no reason to believe that I
exist.

There is also no reason for me to believe that you exist, because you could
be Toto forging the mail. You didn't sign your message, I don't have your
key fingerprint, I doubt I ever will, and besides, maybe someone monitored
your keystrokes and stole your key.

And in my experience, certain 'sense impressions' lead me to conclude that
the existence of 'god' as some sort of cohesive, coherent, universal-scale
eternal being is perhaps possible. Looking at cloud formations on the
plane, I sometimes feel like an astrocyte wandering a huge purkinje
skyscape, or like a star careening through a nebula. And the erosion
patterns on the mountains below look just like dribbling water on
sandcastles. And so there is something, some kind of underlying order, the
effects of which we see at every scale.

Though I'm incapable of understanding the transcendent order, or of
conceiving what the transcendent order might be, I do not block the
possibility from my mind. And that leads to some interesting experiences.

No, I don't follow the often arbitrary rhetoric of many organised
religions, and in that point I agree with your opinion of the concept.
Although, some of them espouse some interesting ideas.

To wander back to the thread topic, democracy, and to totally wrench
everything out of context, I've heard the same sort of argument used
against democratic empowerment. There's no reason to believe that 'the
people' are capable of making their own decisions, and there's no reason to
believe that stronger, more direct democracy would work as an effective
system of governance and organisational decision-making. 'The people' are
demonstrably idiotic, moronic fools, sheep, who must be lead by 'those in
the know'. By that logic, it follows we should concentrate all power into
the hands of a few beneficent rulers, or an educated aristocracy, or
perhaps just one -- the philosopher king.

I nominate myself. Any objections?

Please e-mail for address to send offerings and libations to me, the ruler
of the universe. Donations accepted in the form of gifts of $100 or more.
Gold and precious stones preferred. Multitudinous blessings to you, free of
charge.

Mark Hedges


__________________________________________________________________
  Mark Hedges   hedges@infopeace.com   www.infopeace.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Duncan Frissell 
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 09:20:03 +0800
To: Chip Mefford 
Subject: Re: Mobile phone tracking, pagers, etc
In-Reply-To: <19980917222329.A1364@die.com>
Message-ID: <199809181411.KAA24933@mail1.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 08:13 AM 9/18/98 -0400, Chip Mefford wrote:
>
>
>Actually, 
>
>there seems to be a screw up out  there.
>
>Right now, one can go down the 7/11, and pay 
>cash for a prepaid cellphone, and renew it with 
>cellphone time cards also purchased with cash.
>
>No paperwork, NONE.
>
>I have one.

I pointed this out two years ago when the first prepaid cellular phones
appeared in NYC.  

This is an example of the problem with regulations that depend on keeping
"bad" people from having bank accounts, net accounts, phone accounts, etc.
These depend on *all* sellers of these account services conspiring with the
government in a cartel to deny services (a Government Denial of Service
attack).  But such a cartel (even if backed by law) is impossible to
maintain.  There is too much profit in breaking it.

DCF



>From Wednesday's WSJ:

"In a depressing turn for law-enforcement authorities, prepaid service has
caught on with drug dealers and other criminals. With no contract and no
bills, there is no paper trail -- a feature that also makes the service
attractive to tax evaders."


September 16, 1998

Prepaid Plans Start to Open Up The Cellular-Phone Market

By GAUTAM NAIK Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL

Warren Pippin, a police officer in Savannah, Ga., ditched his traditional
cellular-phone contract two years ago. "I couldn't stand paying bills every
month," he says. "This is so much simpler."

Now he uses prepaid cellular-phone service, a plan that was hatched in
Portugal four years ago, took Europe by storm and is finally catching on in
the U.S. A user simply buys an off-the-shelf phone, along with a card
representing a certain financial value. The phone is activated by dialing a
phone number and a personal identification number printed on the card. When
the money runs out, the card can be replenished via a fresh payment.

Those are just the basics. In Portugal, refinements let prepaid users
replenish their cards at automated teller machines. And wherever it is
used, the prepaid method is democratizing a product and service long
confined to the well-heeled. Although only 2% of America's 54 million
wireless subscribers use prepaid service today, most are people who
otherwise wouldn't dream of owning a mobile phone: inner-city residents,
students, people with poor credit.

While rates for prepaid service are generally higher than regular cellular
plans, users have no 12-month contracts or monthly fees to contend with.
All told, compared with regular "leisure" users, prepaid customers spend
roughly 15% to 25% less per month.

"Prepay is enabling people that have wanted wireless phones for a long,
long time to finally get one," says Terry Hayes, a marketing executive at
Omnipoint Corp., which recently launched a "no monthly fee" prepaid
offering. The company, which operates from Maine to Maryland, sells prepaid
phones in colorful packages at gas stations, Duane Reade drugstores and its
own outlets. Every second Omnipoint customer has prepaid service.

'Best Thing for Kids'

Page Tel, a wireless-service reseller in Detroit, has signed up 85,000
prepaid mobile-phone users, most of them students and inner-city residents.
One popular product costs $39, and includes a Motorola flip phone. "It's
the best thing for kids," says Laith Korkis, the owner of Page Tel. "They
buy a $39 phone and a $10 prepaid card and walk down the street looking cool."

In a depressing turn for law-enforcement authorities, prepaid service has
caught on with drug dealers and other criminals. With no contract and no
bills, there is no paper trail -- a feature that also makes the service
attractive to tax evaders.

Europe's prepaid users number some 14 million, or 20% of all mobile
subscribers. By the end of 1998, the number of prepaid users will rise to
22 million, or 25% of the total European market, according to Salomon Smith
Barney. In the U.S., playing catch up, virtually every big wireless
provider has jumped into prepaid service: Half of PrimeCo Personal
Communications LP's customers are prepaid, while 40% of BellSouth Corp.'s
subscribers are. Prepaid will make up 25% of all new wireless sign-ups this
year, estimates Donaldson, Lufkin & Jenrette.

U.S. providers remain technologically behind their European counterparts,
who adopted digital standards far earlier. European digital phones have a
special card that can be inserted into the phone to activate special
features such as Portugal's ATM replenishment. In the U.S., users can only
replenish their prepaid phone by paying cash at a store or via credit card.

Portugal Telecom SA, Portugal's main phone company, got the idea for
prepaid cellular service when executives realized that the nation's
sophisticated network of ATMs could be used as mobile-phone "refueling"
stations. The service was launched in 1995; today, 68% of all Portugal
Telecom's mobile-phone customers are prepaid.

Telecel Communicacoes Pessoais SA, a rival wireless carrier that is 50.9%
owned by Airtouch Communications Inc. of the U.S., has been equally
aggressive. Its Vitamina prepaid phones are sold in brightly colored
packages, each shaped in the form of a pill. One popular brand is aimed at
corporations: The company can specify exactly how much credit it wants each
employee's phone to have, and how often the credit should be topped up.

The Frog Factor

Another product, Vitamina K (for kid), is for children ages eight to 15.
The phones look like frogs and have six colorful buttons that can be
programmed by a parent. "One is for mummy, two for daddy, three for
grandma. That's all the kid has to know," explains Joao Mendes Dias,
Telecel's product-marketing director.

An especially big hit is Vitamina R (for radicals), sold to the
15-to-24-year-old set and featuring only fashionable Ericsson or Nokia
models. If a Vitamina R customer calls another Vitamina R user, the call is
35% cheaper than calling someone else. And the advertising slogan has its
fans, as well: "Vitamina R. It heals everything but hangovers."

Sandra Santos, a 21-year-old student in Lisbon, likes her snazzy Vitamina
phone because it provides a running display of the credit available at any
time. When she runs low, there is always a cash machine nearby. Thanks to
special calling rates, her Vitamina bills are half what she paid with a
previous subscription plan. And her previous phone? "I gave that to my
dad," she says.

Airtouch now hopes to apply Telecel's ideas-especially the savvy marketing
-- in the U.S. The San Francisco company is pitching prepaid to students in
Ohio and Michigan. During the World Cup soccer tournament, it targeted
Hispanic customers in Southern California. In the last 12 months, about 10%
of all new Airtouch customers joined on the prepaid plan. That number could
double in the next 12 months, says Airtouch.

Dave Whetstone, director of the company's prepaid business, noting that his
company has extensive interests in European wireless carriers, adds: "We
look at our European operations and say, 'Wow, prepaid is exploding there.
There may be some cultural differences, but there's got to be something
there' " for U.S. consumers.

Airtouch won't have to convince Jenifer Borrusch, an 18-year-old student at
Eastern Michigan University. Ms. Borrusch's parents wanted to give her a
traditional mobile phone in case of emergencies during her 45-minute drive
from Livonia, Mich., to college. But because she might overspend, they gave
her a prepaid device instead. The ploy worked. "I won't even let my best
friend use it," she says. 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 09:31:11 +0800
To: "Dan S. Camper" 
Subject: Re: THE WHITE HOUSE: Briefing on encryption ( X-files ?? )
In-Reply-To: <199809181400.JAA21600@smtp.austin.outernet.com>
Message-ID: <199809181432.KAA09252@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Lordgrey asks for a BXA URL:

BXA info on the new crypto policy:

   http://www.bxa.doc.gov/whatsnew.htm

   http://207.96.11.93/Encryption/Default.htm

The only info there not issued by the White House is a list
of the 45 countries who get favorable treatment.

CDT says the implementation regs are due to be issued by
BXA sometime in October, and to watch out: "the devil is in 
the details."

In the meantime the 11 corporations who announced support
for the new policy will continue hemming, hawing and heeding
threat of license delay:

Here they are:

Ascend, Cisco Systems, 3Com, Hewlett-Packard Company, 
Intel, Netscape Communications, Network Associates, Novell, 
RedCreek Communications, Secure Computing, Sun 
Microsystems.

One bit of sunshine, though, is Germany has announced that it
will lead a Euro attack on US crypto export limits because they
harm economic security:

   http://jya.com/cn091898.htm








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 12:54:23 +0800
To: Jim Burnes 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 12:02 PM -0700 9/17/98, Jim Burnes wrote:
>Far be it from me to complain about the content-free
>nature of others postings, but has anyone else noticed
>that the signal on cypherpunks is being lost in the noise?
>

Complaining about, or even just commenting on, the problems with the
Cypherpunks list does no good.

* the clueless hotmail, sixdegrees, AOL, etc. posters will not even _read_
the comments, let alone understand them, let alone care. They will continue
to ramble on about warez, band stickers, where their shoes are, kool bandz,
etc.

* as the list is not filtered, censored, moderated or otherwise controlled,
how can a complaint about S/N do anything? Are you asking for someone to
filter out the noise posts? Are you commissioning the writing of more
signal posts?

* the list has had several bouts in the past with bombardment by noise
posts. Cf. Detweiler (tentacles, snakes of medusa, etc.), Vulis, Toto, etc.
Toto's extremely long, incoherent rants consumed far more bandwidth than
the current noise constitutes.

 In short, the _only_ route to fix the S/N is to increase signal. And that
happens not be exhorting others to write more signal, but by the act of
actually writing signal. And that tends to happen when a critical mass of
interested people are having a  discussion on topics of interest.

And that proceeds in spurts, not surprisingly, as topics come to the fore.

Meanwhile, complaining only adds to the noise.

--Tim May

(This space left blank pending determ. of acceptability to the gov't.)
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 14:00:28 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Mobile phone tracking, pagers, etc
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3602A53A.48E7@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Chip Mefford wrote:
> 
> Actually,
> 
> there seems to be a screw up out  there.
> 
> Right now, one can go down the 7/11, and pay
> cash for a prepaid cellphone, and renew it with
> cellphone time cards also purchased with cash.
> 
> No paperwork, NONE.
> 
> I have one.
> 
> While all of the technology applies, and certainly it is possible
> to determine things by analyzing calling habits, I can't see how one
> can easily determine who has cellphone #blahblahblahblahblah when
> you just bought a box at an out of town 7/11 during the breakfast
> rush with cash.
> 
> Esp if one doesn't make a lot of calls.
> 
Tasty. Especially if one's partner in crime has taken the same
precaution.

To the LEAs: technology giveth and technology taketh away.

BTW - do these phones have a modem connector? If not could one be added?
Then you get end-to-end privacy too.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "sixdegrees"
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 10:46:27 +0800
To: "Lefty CyberSlasher"
Subject: Your new password
Message-ID: <199809181531.IAA20385@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Name: Lefty CyberSlasher
sixdegrees password: landmelt

Congratulations Lefty. You're well on your way to 
becoming a full sixdegrees(tm) member. Here is your member 
password: landmelt. Use it to log-in on the home page 
at the sixdegrees Web site, http://www.sixdegrees.com. 
We'll ask you for a little more information to complete your 
registration, and then you'll be ready to start networking. 

It's important that you return to the site and log-in. Your 
membership will not be complete until you do so.

Once you've successfully logged in with your password, just go 
to Personal Profile and you'll be able to choose your own 
password.

Thanks for becoming part of sixdegrees. We're looking forward 
to seeing you at the site. 

====================================================================
PLEASE NOTE: All replies to this address are processed by a computer.
If you believe you received this e-mail in error, and it was not your 
intention to become a sixdegrees member, or if you have any problems, 
questions or requests send an e-mail to issues@sixdegrees.com
and someone will get back to you as soon as possible.
====================================================================


E.SI.BAM.1




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 14:12:39 +0800
To: Alan Olsen 
Subject: Re: Questions for Magaziner?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



(I'm leaving the damned multiple lists cc:ed on this, as I have no idea
where this thread came from. For those of you who send me notes saying I am
not allowed to post on your list, plonk.)


At 2:33 AM -0700 9/19/98, Alan Olsen wrote:
>On Fri, 18 Sep 1998, Robert Hettinga wrote:
>
>> Anyway, In light of more recent crypto-shenanigans from Billary, and the
>> fact that this thing's a small crowd, I figured I'd ask if anyone on these
>> lists had a question they wanted me to ask him.
>
>"With all the demands from Governent to escrow keys, what steps are being
>taken to protect the these keys and/or backdoors from misuse from people
>within the Government and those outside of the Government?"
>
>"Would you use escrowed cryptography for your private communications?  Who
>would you trust to hold those keys?"

Well, I believe that even asking these sorts of questions (and possibly
getting answers from government) plays into the hands of the GAKkers.

After all, suppose they give pretty good answers? What if, for example,
they propose a committee consisting of the entire Supreme Court, the
Director of the Sierra Club, and so on, and say that a _unanimous_ vote is
required to gain access to a key?

Does this at all change the fundamental unconstitutionality of telling me
that I will face imprisonment if I speak or write in a manner which is not
part of their "escrow" arrangement? If I keep a diary without depositing an
escrowed key with this noble, careful, thoughtful committee of wise persons?

Of course not. My speech, my writing, my private codes, my whisperings, my
phone conversations...all of these...are not subject to govenmwental
approval. "Congress shall make no law..."

Doesn't say that Congress or the courts of the President get to declare
illegal certain modes of speaking. (*)

(* Please, I hope no one brings up "loud speech," "shouting fire," "obscene
speech," "seditious speech," "slanderous speech," etc. This is well-trod
ground, but clearly all of these apparent limits on speech, whether one
agrees with them or not, have nothing to do with an overbroad requirement
that speech only be in certain languages, that letters only be written on
carbon paper with a copy filed with the government, and so on. The
restrictions on _some_ kinds of speech are not a license to license speech,
as it were, or to require escrow of papers, letters, diaries, and phone
conversations and such.)

My point about Alan's (and others') points is that if we get engaged in
this kind of debate about how key escrow might work, we shift the debate
from where it ought to be to where they _want_ it to be, namely, to issues
of practicality.

My view is that my writings are mine. They can try to get them with a
search warrant or a court order, but they'd better not threaten me with
imprisonment if I choose to write in some language they can't read. And
that's all crypto really is, of course. Just another language.

--Tim May

(This space left blank pending determ. of acceptability to the gov't.)
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "sixdegrees"
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 11:30:51 +0800
To: "Spermy CyberPorno"
Subject: Your new password
Message-ID: <199809181623.JAA20744@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Name: Spermy CyberPorno
sixdegrees password: rampnull

Congratulations Spermy. You're well on your way to 
becoming a full sixdegrees(tm) member. Here is your member 
password: rampnull. Use it to log-in on the home page 
at the sixdegrees Web site, http://www.sixdegrees.com. 
We'll ask you for a little more information to complete your 
registration, and then you'll be ready to start networking. 

It's important that you return to the site and log-in. Your 
membership will not be complete until you do so.

Once you've successfully logged in with your password, just go 
to Personal Profile and you'll be able to choose your own 
password.

Thanks for becoming part of sixdegrees. We're looking forward 
to seeing you at the site. 

====================================================================
PLEASE NOTE: All replies to this address are processed by a computer.
If you believe you received this e-mail in error, and it was not your 
intention to become a sixdegrees member, or if you have any problems, 
questions or requests send an e-mail to issues@sixdegrees.com
and someone will get back to you as soon as possible.
====================================================================


E.SI.BAM.1




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 07:51:32 +0800
To: jvb@ssds.com
Subject: Re: Cyberpunks Signal-to-Noise Ratio
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199809181137.MAA12212@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




> Far be it from me to complain about the content-free
> nature of others postings, but has anyone else noticed
> that the signal on cypherpunks is being lost in the noise?

There are a couple of filtered lists I think, Eric Blossom used to do
one and Ray Arachelian also.  Personally I just rely on the liberal
use of the delete key.

Adam




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 14:42:03 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Scorched Earth
In-Reply-To: <199809180440.GAA25125@replay.com>
Message-ID: <3602B847.21BB@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Anonymous wrote:
> 
> :: RANDALL: Don, you've got a story today about what could happen if
> :: Republicans press for impeachment on, basically, a sex case against the
> :: president. A Democratic scorched-earth policy against the GOP. Tell us
> :: about that?
> ::
Let's see, Starr's inquiries into Clinton sex life *could* be seen, by a
sympathetic onlooker, as a very elaborate trap which angered Clinton
sufficiently that he became careless and fell into it. This leads to the
resounding cries of "if he lied UNDER OATH about his *S*E*X* life what
ELSE is he lying to us about?" This is OK because the investigation was
carried out under a legal authority.

Meanwhile, back in Congress, the Republicans are decrying Hyde's
affair's disclosure as a horrible, unwarranted attack with the intent to
"intimidate and obstruct justice" and the Parties are trying to cover
their own asses by declaring a truce regarding smear campaigns and dirt
digging. So, this type of disclosure by civilians through a *free* press
is "wrong" and should be prevented.

Scorch on, I say. If they are afraid to have us dig into their
extramarital affairs what else are they hiding from us? Tobacco deals,
arms deals, kickbacks, pageboys? How deep is this dirt they're covering
up?

The only downside is that after the shit has all fallen to earth the
only persons who will dare to run for office under the new rules of
engagement will be worse than what we have now even if they're
squeaky-clean from a morals perspective.

Mike




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "I.A. Eaglemail" 
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 15:01:16 +0800
To: 5j0g50e0@auto.sixdegrees.com
Subject: Re: Hacker D00D
Message-ID: <19980918194942.2300.qmail@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



DENY

>From cypherpunks-errors@toad.com Fri Sep 18 12:23:32 1998
>Received: (from majordom@localhost) by toad.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id 
MAA22376 for cypherpunks-unedited-outgoing; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 12:16:52 
-0700 (PDT)
>Received: from neptune.sixdegrees.com (neptune.sixdegrees.com 
[206.41.12.34]) by toad.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA22371 for 
; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 12:16:49 -0700 (PDT)
>Message-Id: <199809181916.MAA22371@toad.com>
>Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 15:15:42 -0500
>From: "sixdegrees"<5j0g50e0@auto.sixdegrees.com>
>To: "Joe Cyberspanker"
>Subject:  Hacker D00D
>Sender: owner-cypherpunks@toad.com
>Precedence: bulk
>
>You've been listed again. Looks like this whole sixdegrees 
>thing is working. Your networking potential is growing by the 
>second. Hacker D00D listed you as "Mother."
>
>Please let us know if you are in fact Hacker's Mother:
>
>====================================================================
>TO RESPOND:
>
>FIRST, click your mail program's reply button. 
>
>SECOND, in the reply e-mail that opens, on the first line of 
>the message body, type only the word CONFIRM or the word DENY.
>
>THEN CLICK SEND.
>
>If you prefer, you can take care of this contact confirmation 
>by visiting the site at http://www.sixdegrees.com and going to 
>MY CONTACTS after logging in on the home page. You can also list 
>new contacts there.
>
>We look forward to hearing from you.
>
>====================================================================
>PLEASE NOTE: All replies to this address are processed by a computer.
>If you have any problems, questions or requests send an e-mail to 
>issues@sixdegrees.com and someone will get back to you as soon as 
>possible.
>====================================================================
>
>
>E.DB.ANB.4
>


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Bernardo B. Terrado" 
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 01:16:10 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: thanks...
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I would like to thank the f for helping me...
CORY
BOB
RIC
ANONYMOUS
DUTRA
R KEN
XENA...
BILL
ALBERT
MIKE
JIM
mgraffam
jya

and those that helped me with other things.
  I cannot remember you all coz my pc or whoever did  deleted your
   messages to me without my knowledge.(it just disappeared)

Your replies helped me with my seminar.

THANK YOU!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Some people they might say that I'm hard to get to know.
I go my own sweet way, well that maybe so.
Something about the crowd that makes me walk alone. 
I never had a need in me to be the party's life and soul.

It's me Bernie.
metaphone@altavista.net
``````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "John Kelsey" 
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 12:47:47 +0800
To: 
Subject: Re: Questions for Magaziner?
Message-ID: <199809181747.MAA03503@email.plnet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> From: Robert Hettinga 
> To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net; cryptography@c2.net; dcsb@ai.mit.edu
> Subject: Questions for Magaziner?
> Date: Thursday, September 17, 1998 11:38 PM
 
> Anyway, In light of more recent crypto-shenanigans from Billary,
and the
> fact that this thing's a small crowd, I figured I'd ask if anyone
on these
> lists had a question they wanted me to ask him.

Here's a question I would like to ask, in a rather rough form:

There has been a lot of talk by the administration about ``striking a
balance'' 
between citizens privacy concerns and the interests of police and spy
agencies.
Can you give us some concrete examples of what tradeoffs between
these two you
consider reasonable?  For example, what benefits to society would be
worth making
all private communications available to the FBI or NSA?  Would it be
a worthwhile
trade to the citizens of the US if we could double the street price
of cocaine, at 
the cost of essentially all phone calls being recorded and subject to
monitoring at 
any time?  How about cutting the (already barely measureable) risk of
dying from a 
terrorist act in half?  

My complaint with their rhetoric is that they always talk about these
tradeoffs and
about striking a balance, but we never seem to see any balance being
struck.  Striking
a balance means acknowledging that some societal benefits aren't
worth giving up our
privacy.  Will doubling the street price of cocaine improve my life
much?  It sure 
doesn't look like it will to me.  How about cutting my risk of dying
from a terrorist
act?  This is already much smaller than my risk of dying in a plane
crash; how much lower 
does it need to go?  (There is also the issue of whether any claimed
set of benefits
can be accomplished by key-escrow, or for that matter by putting a
videocamera and 
microphone in every home.  But that's a different issue.)

Of course, there are a bunch of problems with trying to analyze
violating fundamental
individual rights for some perceived social benefit, but I don't
think their basic argument 
can work, even if we grant that this sort of tradeoff is a legitimate
thing for governments
to do.  The tradeoffs we've seen offered have not given much weight
to citizens' desires for
privacy.  Consider the Clipper chip, the continued use of export
controls to slow down deployment of encryption in the US and
worldwide, the FBI's CALEA demands (including their
demand a few years ago to be able to listen in on 1/2% of all ongoing
calls in urban areas), 
etc.  We haven't seen any attempt to strike a balance so far, just an
attempt to claim 
some bureaucratic turf.


> Cheers,
> Bob Hettinga

--John Kelsey, kelsey@counterpane.com / kelsey@plnet.net
NEW PGP print =  5D91 6F57 2646 83F9 6D7F 9C87 886D 88AF




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 15:06:55 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: RE: Questions for Magaziner?
Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A192846C3@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Mr Magaziner, what do you think Thomas Jefferson meant when he stated:
"Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not
have, nor do they deserve, either one."

	Matt




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "sixdegrees"<0jsf50m4@auto.sixdegrees.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 12:43:25 +0800
To: "TheReal CypherpunksList"
Subject: Your new password
Message-ID: <199809181736.KAA21406@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Name: TheReal CypherpunksList
sixdegrees password: grincusp

Congratulations TheReal. You're well on your way to 
becoming a full sixdegrees(tm) member. Here is your member 
password: grincusp. Use it to log-in on the home page 
at the sixdegrees Web site, http://www.sixdegrees.com. 
We'll ask you for a little more information to complete your 
registration, and then you'll be ready to start networking. 

It's important that you return to the site and log-in. Your 
membership will not be complete until you do so.

Once you've successfully logged in with your password, just go 
to Personal Profile and you'll be able to choose your own 
password.

Thanks for becoming part of sixdegrees. We're looking forward 
to seeing you at the site. 

====================================================================
PLEASE NOTE: All replies to this address are processed by a computer.
If you believe you received this e-mail in error, and it was not your 
intention to become a sixdegrees member, or if you have any problems, 
questions or requests send an e-mail to issues@sixdegrees.com
and someone will get back to you as soon as possible.
====================================================================


E.SI.BAM.1




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 06:41:38 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com
Subject: Re: Clinton's fake apologies (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809181143.NAA22431@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Sat, 12 Sep 1998, Jim Choate wrote:

> I figure it's the fact that 'principles' are involved that is confusing
> everybody, no room to move like there is with relativism. Bottem line, he
> held a public office, while in that office he should commit *NO* crime or
> else he should loose that office. There was no abmiguity there in the minds
> of the founding fathers and there shouldn't be in yours either. If this
> confuses you then take it as an indication that you have a axiomatic
> contradiction in your world view and need to rethink things in a serious
> way.
> 
> As Jefferson said, if you hold a public office your public property.
> 
> Nail the son of a bitch to the wall, he did the crime let him do the time.
> 
> It's a pitty he doesn't have this sort of empathy for all those people he's
> put in jail for consensual crimes during his tenure. The man has a base
> double standard, let him pay for it.

I agree totally, but this has a somewhat deeper point.

The idiots in government sign into law all sorts of unconstitutional or
nonsensical legislation. As far as I'm concerned, it ought to be a law
that for *ANY* crime they commit they are thrown out of office and
prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Of course it would never
happen, but if it were to happen I think we'd see massive repeals of all
this bogus legislation.

"Senator, you have an encrypted file on your laptop. As per the Domestic
Cryptography Prohibition Act, I am here to seize your computer, the office
it is in, freeze your assets, and take you into custody. You will be
ejected from the Senate, effective immediately. If convicted, you will
spend the next five years at hard labor."

"But...But I didn't know it was there! It was a virus which put it there!"

"Ignorance of your violations of the law are no excuse. It says so in that
Act."

"Who is the idiot who passed this?!"

"You introduced it, sir. It was something about protecting the children
and how anybody who uses cryptography is a pedophile or something like
that."

Later that night, on the news: "Senator X was ejected from the Senate,
arrested, jailed, and charged today with unlawful possession of random
numbers. Later it was announced that former Senator X was charged with
trafficing in child pornography."

The next day: "In a daring no-knock morning raid, a flurry of automatic
weapons fire occured and former Senator X's family was killed in the
exchange. An FBI agent was quoted as saying, 'She was wielding an assault
baby and we had to take her down.'"

"It has just been announced that former Senator X is being charged under
the Domestric Cryptography Prohibition Act, which he sponsored, with
'crypto in a crime.' This carries an additional penalty of 10 years. When
asked what crime the cryptography was used in, an FBI representative
answered, 'Given what Senator X argued on the floor of the senate when he
introduced this bill, we're sure there is child pornography there
somewhere. Like he said, the only reason to use cryptography is if you
have something to hide, like child pornography or plans for widespread
global armageddon. Because he used cryptography, we don't know where or
what that porn is, but we're sure it's there somewhere.'"

Three years later: "Former Senator X was convicted today of one count of
'crypto in a crime,' five counts of possession of cryptography without a
license, eight counts of child porn (one for each encrypted file), and one
count of intent to use weapons of mass destruction. In a swift action, he
was sentenced to six consecutive life terms, to be served at hard labor."

"Jim, isn't all this agaist the Bill of Rights?"

"Well, Tom, it used to be, but since they repealed it..."

*fade to black*





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 15:59:14 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Democracy...
In-Reply-To: <80256682.00312692.00@seunt002e.ssa.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3602C866.3874@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Richard,

Flogging a dead horse may serve a purpose: the steaks that show up on
your grocer's shelves might be a bit more tender. I have not tried to
say that morals lack value, simply that they are not absolutes.

> You may deride my absolutes but if applied by all we would have no crime, no 
> divorce etc. Boring??  Not really.  Many diseases and social problems would
> cease or be reduced.
>
One person's Utopia is, invariably, another's Hell. Utopia is not
achievable. Many have tried. All have failed. All future attempts will
fail. Any system that fails to acknowledge this will be insufferable.

Mike

"Heaven, heaven is a place, a place where nothing, nothing ever happens"
-Talking Heads- (More Songs About Buildings and Food?)

PS : are you a Physicist?

> Actually the speed of light varies depending on the medium 
>
This one deserves some reading but I suspect that 'not if you're the
photon'.

> and the mass of an electron with its velocity.
>
Gamma = 1 --> Lorentzian = Newtonian. Gamma = 1 if you are the electron
being measured. It is still the same after it has been accelerated, it
just reads differently from the outside.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 16:14:42 +0800
To: Michael Hohensee 
Subject: Re: Democracy... (fwd) The Nature of Religion
In-Reply-To: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A192846AD@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
Message-ID: <3602CDEC.4C09@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Michael Hohensee wrote:
> 
> Actually, you may be interested to know that *everyone* is religious, in
> some manner.  Everyone has at least one untestable assumption about the
> world.  That is, everyone has a kind of faith.  Let's give some
> examples:
> 
> Christians believe that there exists a Being, called God, which somehow
> Moslems believe in the existance of a different God, and have different
> Atheists believe that God *doesn't* exist, which is essentially the same
> Even people who are nonreligious, or agnostic, have a religion.  For
> The Transcendentalists of the 19th century, for example, do not really
> Scientists tend to think differently.  Their beliefs can be described by

Lots of scientists look pretty religious about their 'science' to me.
Their untestable assumption being that they are capable of comprehending
what may be beyond them. Try reading His Master's Voice' by Stanislaw
Lem: very nice piece of fiction.
 
I'm now an avowed Apatheist - I don't give a damn what the answers to
unanswerable questions are. Especially when those answers come from
someone with an obvious agenda. Is that religious? 

Put a worm on the hook, pop the top off my beer. Argh! It's Coors. I
only wish it were imaginary. If not Guiness, at least let it be a
Corona.

Happy Friday,
Mike




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Steve Bellovin 
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 13:52:37 +0800
To: "John Kelsey" 
Subject: Re: Questions for Magaziner?
Message-ID: <199809181852.OAA02137@postal.research.att.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



It is, of course, worth remembering that Magaziner is pretty much on
our side on this issue.  He just hasn't been able to win over Freeh,
Reno, Clinton, etc.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "sixdegrees"<5j0g50e0@auto.sixdegrees.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 14:24:25 +0800
To: "Joe Cyberspanker"
Subject: Hacker D00D
Message-ID: <199809181916.MAA22371@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



You've been listed again. Looks like this whole sixdegrees 
thing is working. Your networking potential is growing by the 
second. Hacker D00D listed you as "Mother."

Please let us know if you are in fact Hacker's Mother:

====================================================================
TO RESPOND:

FIRST, click your mail program's reply button. 

SECOND, in the reply e-mail that opens, on the first line of 
the message body, type only the word CONFIRM or the word DENY.

THEN CLICK SEND.

If you prefer, you can take care of this contact confirmation 
by visiting the site at http://www.sixdegrees.com and going to 
MY CONTACTS after logging in on the home page. You can also list 
new contacts there.

We look forward to hearing from you.

====================================================================
PLEASE NOTE: All replies to this address are processed by a computer.
If you have any problems, questions or requests send an e-mail to 
issues@sixdegrees.com and someone will get back to you as soon as 
possible.
====================================================================


E.DB.ANB.4




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 17:25:04 +0800
To: Tim May 
Subject: Re: Questions for Magaziner?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3602DE7E.1C0E@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Tim May wrote:
> My view is that my writings are mine. They can try to get them with a
> search warrant or a court order, but they'd better not threaten me with
> imprisonment if I choose to write in some language they can't read. And
> that's all crypto really is, of course. Just another language.
> 
My gut feeling is that if a search turns up an encrypted file then, by
golly, what you see is what there is, make a bit-accurate copy and be on
your way, what's in my head belongs to me. But is that what the courts,
scared shitless of hordes of child molesters and terrorists conspiring
via secure e-mail and phones, will say? 

They'll probably avoid attacking the 1st and 4th( already weakened by
the war on drugs ) and attack the 5th with a 'greater good' argument and
the analogy of the locked safe. This requires an explanation of how the
stored documents are the modern-day .equivalent. of physical paper and
should be treated as such. It's only spitting distance from there to the
idea that a memorized key is the same as a physical key in which case
its owner doesn't enjoy the protections of the 5th. Hand it over Jack.
The law has to adapt to the changing technology. No need to outlaw
cryptography; just redefine the boundaries of the power to destroy.

Mike 

PS - How does a grant of limited immunity work?




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mark Hedges 
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 17:59:04 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: BAN DOGS..
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Some months ago, the cops in Washington D.C. swept through the housing
projects, rounded up, and executed a large number of 'illegal dogs' (pit
bulls?). There was a tiny paragraph in USA Today about it. -hedges-


>--- begin forwarded text
>
>
>From: vinnie@vmeng.com
>Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 09:34:32 -0700
>Subject:  BAN DOGS..
>To: rah@shipwright.com, Tamzen Cannoy 
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>X-Priority: 3
>
>
>LETTER TO BAN DOGS
>
>To the Editor
>Arizona Republic
>P.O. Box 2244
>Phoenix, Arizona 85002
>
>January 7th, 1998
>
>Dear Editor,
>
>I am gratified to read in this morning's paper that someone has finally
>called attention to an urgent situation which I have known about for a long
>time:  annually 334,000 victims of savage dog bites, most frequently
>children, average age 15, are taken to the nation's emergency rooms.  As
>the article states: "That's more ER visits than injuries from skateboards,
>baby walkers and in-line skates combined."  Total annual cost of ER dog
>bites: $102.4 million.  Twenty or more people killed annually by dogs,
>almost all of them children.
>
>Because these dogs are so readily obtainable on the streets of our nation,
>I implore all your readers to immediately deluge their Congressmen with
>letters, phone calls, faxes and telegrams to support the federal "Save the
>Widdle Childwen Fwom the Vicious Dog-Bite Act of 1998", which would require
>the following: mandatory muzzles fitted with muzzle-locks to be kept at all
>times on all dogs, licensing and paw-printing of all dogs, fingerprinting
>and house-monitoring of dog owners, including mandatory,
>federally-monitored safe storage of dogs and an immediate 1,000% tax on all
>dog food.  This Act is sponsored by Canine Control Incorporated, an
>organization dedicated to eliminating canine violence in America by the
>year 2000. The Act also provides for the immediate banning of all "assault
>dogs", the definition of which term will constantly change according to the
>emotions of the board of C.C.I.  "Saturday Night Special" dogs, such as
>Chihuahuas and other cheap, easily concealed ankle-biters, will also be
>banned.  In addition, the Act bans all sharp canine teeth, all canine teeth
>longer than a federally-mandated length, all spiked collars and sharp
>canine toenails.  It also mandates that all dogs be transferred only
>through federally licensed dog dealers, and provides for the changing of
>the BATF to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Assault Dogs, or
>BATFAD.
>
>I hope that the physicians' organizations who champion total hand-gun
>banning will rally behind this urgent cause to save our nation's children.
>Anyone who opposes this type of legislation obviously hates children.  We
>need this Act desperately - after all, if it saves only one life, it is
>worth it.  Not to mention the $102.4 million dollars in ER charges!
>
>My husband's face was horribly mauled at the age of four by a Pit Bull;
>today he is the poster child for C.C.I.  Now, when not being used as a
>drooling doorstop or for first base, he is routinely wheeled out at charity
>fund-raising events at which he repeatedly mumbles, "Bad dogs!  Ban dogs!"
>
>We urgently need your help to get these vicious dogs off the streets now!
>Please help end canine violence in America!  Send donations to: C.C.I.,
>1111 B.S. Avenue, N.W., Washington, D.C.  20004.
>
>Make the checks out to me.
>
>Tina Terry
>
>c) 1998 by Tina Terry.  This letter may be reprinted in its entirety, as
>long as nothing in it is changed, credit is given the author, and the
>following is included.  Author's note: The author's husband's face really
>was mauled at age 4 by a Pit Bull, an incident in which he almost lost an
>eye.  He's not in a wheelchair, true, but he also doesn't blame dogs in
>general for his early experience and he loves and owns dogs to this day.  He
>also has never tried to enlist the author to run around the country trying
>to ban all dogs.
>
>
>
>--------------289FF090CB8537C73A0A0B03--
>
>--- end forwarded text
>
>
>-----------------
>Robert A. Hettinga 
>Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
>44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
>"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
>[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
>experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'



__________________________________________________________________
  Mark Hedges   hedges@infopeace.com   www.infopeace.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 15:44:39 +0800
To: "Arnold G. Reinhold" 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Okay, so the short precis on Magaziner's answer to my question about
encryption controls, foriegn or domestic, is he's agin it.

He says that controlling foriegn encryption is impossible, and controlling
domestic encryption is, at the very least, unconstitutional.

He says that the reason the administration's encryption policy is so
convoluted is that the law enforcement and the "economic" encryption camps,
anti, and pro, evidently, is that the two sides are at loggerheads.
Magaziner mirrored Rivest's offer to tax encryption products to pay for
increased law enforcement technology support, but, hey, he's a liberal
democrat, he's supposed to tax us to death without thinking about the
economic, and, of course privacy consequences of raising the price of
encryption.

So, all in all, he got a round of foot-stomping applause from this bunch on
his pro-encryption stance, because, evidently, being a payments technology
forum, he was preaching to the choir. Something I found out when I was
doing my own speech yesterday. I should realize that anyone building a
payment system knows that digital commerce is financial cryptography, after
all. :-)

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 18:54:20 +0800
To: Michael Hohensee 
Subject: Re: Democracy... (fwd) The Nature of Religion
In-Reply-To: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A192846AD@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
Message-ID: <3602F345.5BBD@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Michael Hohensee wrote:
> So you do believe (or at least act under the assumption) that the
> universe is real, then? ;)
>
Don't know, don't trust anyone else's answer therefore don't really care
about the question. I'll contemplate it while sitting by the pool (
still at 88 degrees without a heater! ) after lots of margaritas. 

NYU, eh. Whether this is all real or I'm just a brain in a tank
somewhere playing every part and doing props too, I love the restaurant
hunting in The City. I can't take the population density for too many
days in a row but it's *great* for a visit. Crack dealers still
operating openly in WSP?

Mike




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 16:37:39 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: BAN DOGS..
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


From: vinnie@vmeng.com
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 09:34:32 -0700
Subject:  BAN DOGS..
To: rah@shipwright.com, Tamzen Cannoy 
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Priority: 3


LETTER TO BAN DOGS

To the Editor
Arizona Republic
P.O. Box 2244
Phoenix, Arizona 85002

January 7th, 1998

Dear Editor,

I am gratified to read in this morning's paper that someone has finally
called attention to an urgent situation which I have known about for a long
time:  annually 334,000 victims of savage dog bites, most frequently
children, average age 15, are taken to the nation's emergency rooms.  As
the article states: "That's more ER visits than injuries from skateboards,
baby walkers and in-line skates combined."  Total annual cost of ER dog
bites: $102.4 million.  Twenty or more people killed annually by dogs,
almost all of them children.

Because these dogs are so readily obtainable on the streets of our nation,
I implore all your readers to immediately deluge their Congressmen with
letters, phone calls, faxes and telegrams to support the federal "Save the
Widdle Childwen Fwom the Vicious Dog-Bite Act of 1998", which would require
the following: mandatory muzzles fitted with muzzle-locks to be kept at all
times on all dogs, licensing and paw-printing of all dogs, fingerprinting
and house-monitoring of dog owners, including mandatory,
federally-monitored safe storage of dogs and an immediate 1,000% tax on all
dog food.  This Act is sponsored by Canine Control Incorporated, an
organization dedicated to eliminating canine violence in America by the
year 2000. The Act also provides for the immediate banning of all "assault
dogs", the definition of which term will constantly change according to the
emotions of the board of C.C.I.  "Saturday Night Special" dogs, such as
Chihuahuas and other cheap, easily concealed ankle-biters, will also be
banned.  In addition, the Act bans all sharp canine teeth, all canine teeth
longer than a federally-mandated length, all spiked collars and sharp
canine toenails.  It also mandates that all dogs be transferred only
through federally licensed dog dealers, and provides for the changing of
the BATF to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Assault Dogs, or
BATFAD.

I hope that the physicians' organizations who champion total hand-gun
banning will rally behind this urgent cause to save our nation's children.
Anyone who opposes this type of legislation obviously hates children.  We
need this Act desperately - after all, if it saves only one life, it is
worth it.  Not to mention the $102.4 million dollars in ER charges!

My husband's face was horribly mauled at the age of four by a Pit Bull;
today he is the poster child for C.C.I.  Now, when not being used as a
drooling doorstop or for first base, he is routinely wheeled out at charity
fund-raising events at which he repeatedly mumbles, "Bad dogs!  Ban dogs!"

We urgently need your help to get these vicious dogs off the streets now!
Please help end canine violence in America!  Send donations to: C.C.I.,
1111 B.S. Avenue, N.W., Washington, D.C.  20004.

Make the checks out to me.

Tina Terry

c) 1998 by Tina Terry.  This letter may be reprinted in its entirety, as
long as nothing in it is changed, credit is given the author, and the
following is included.  Author's note: The author's husband's face really
was mauled at age 4 by a Pit Bull, an incident in which he almost lost an
eye.  He's not in a wheelchair, true, but he also doesn't blame dogs in
general for his early experience and he loves and owns dogs to this day.  He
also has never tried to enlist the author to run around the country trying
to ban all dogs.



--------------289FF090CB8537C73A0A0B03--

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 16:37:56 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Catchy.
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 11:35:55 -0400
X-Authentication-Warning: qnx.com: localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO
protocol
To: 0xdeadbeef@substance.abuse.blackdown.org
Subject: Re: Catchy.
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 11:18:57 -0400
From: glen mccready 
Resent-From: 0xdeadbeef@substance.abuse.blackdown.org
X-Mailing-List: <0xdeadbeef@substance.abuse.blackdown.org> archive/latest/196
X-Loop: 0xdeadbeef@substance.abuse.blackdown.org
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: 0xdeadbeef-request@substance.abuse.blackdown.org


From: Andrew Isaacson 

On Thu, Sep 17, 1998 at 08:34:49AM -0400, glen mccready wrote:
>
> Forwarded-by: nev@bostic.com
> Forwarded-by: Kirk McKusick 
> From: Rick Kawala 
>
> I was with a friend in Cafe Flore the other night and I had to ask the
> counterperson what was playing on the stereo. Sort of techno but with
> vocals on some tracks, minorish key, really great.  Anyway, the CD arrived
> and track 10 is called "PGP". And yes, they're talking about *that* PGP.
> My God, an ode to data privacy. This computer thing is getting out of
> hand. :)
> 		Rick

The CD is titled 'unlearn', the artist is psykosonik, and it's
Copyright 1995.  This computer thing got out of hand a long time ago.

(It's on the Wax Trax label too, so you know it's gotta be good.)

-andy
--
Andy Isaacson adisaacs@mtu.edu adi@acm.org    Fight Spam, join CAUCE:
http://www.csl.mtu.edu/~adisaacs/              http://www.cauce.org/

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 16:38:22 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Doomsdays
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 09:41:42 -0400
X-Authentication-Warning: qnx.com: localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO
protocol
To: 0xdeadbeef@substance.abuse.blackdown.org
Subject: Doomsdays
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 09:25:52 -0400
From: glen mccready 
Resent-From: 0xdeadbeef@substance.abuse.blackdown.org
X-Mailing-List: <0xdeadbeef@substance.abuse.blackdown.org> archive/latest/195
X-Loop: 0xdeadbeef@substance.abuse.blackdown.org
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: 0xdeadbeef-request@substance.abuse.blackdown.org


Forwarded-by: nev@bostic.com
Forwarded-by: Jeffrey C Honig 
Forwarded-by: Monty Solomon 
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.telecom

Jan. 1, 2000 Isn't Only 'Doomsdate'
http://webserv1.startribune.com/cgi-bin/stOnLine/article?thisSlug=Y2K13

Published Sunday, September 13, 1998

Jan. 1, 2000, isn't only 'doomsdate'

Steve Woodward / Newhouse News Service

Jan. 1, 2000, is The Big One, kids.

By now, you've heard that many of the world's computers will roll the
date clock forward from "99" to "00" with potentially disastrous
consequences. Year 2000 authorities prophesy problems as minor as
erroneous overdue notices from the library and as major as a failure of
the nation's power grid.

But that isn't the only computer "doomsdate" looming. A slew of
lesser-known dates also could wreak technological havoc.

So brace yourself. The first date to dread -- Jan. 1, 1999 -- is fast
approaching.


Jan. 1, 1999: The one-year-look-ahead problem

Not every computer counts forward like you and me. Some look down the
road one entire year and count backward to determine the date. (Please
don't ask why.) On Jan. 1, 1999, some will look forward one year and see
"00." Like humans, the computers may balk at having to count backward
from 00.

Jan. 1, 1999, to Dec. 31, 2002: The euro currency problem

We all know that the year 2000 problem is the biggest software project
in history. But many Americans are unaware that programmers throughout
the world are also at work on the second biggest software project in
history: converting the currencies of 11 European nations into a single
currency called the euro.

Banks and financial institutions will begin transacting business in
euros on Jan. 1, 1999, although the actual bank notes won't be issued
until Jan. 1, 2001. The introduction of the euro is to continue through
the year 2002.

There's no direct link between the euro project and the Y2K project, but
the massive size of the simultaneous projects will soon take most of the
world's available programmers.


Aug. 21, 1999: The GPS rollover problem

The world's 24 global positioning satellites record time by counting the
weeks that have passed since their launch in 1980. The weeks fill up a
counter much like the odometer on your car. But like your odometer, the
counter rolls over to 0000 when it's full. At midnight on Aug. 21, 1999,
the counter will be full. Equipment that uses the GPS signals may
malfunction.


Sept. 9, 1999: The 9999 end-of-file problem

Many computers have been programmed to recognize 9999 as an
"end-of-file" command. Perhaps some computers will conclude, quite
logically, that a date of 9/9/99 means it's the end of all time.


Oct. 1, 1999: The federal fiscal year 2000 problem

Big Daddy rolls its clock forward Oct. 1, 1999. As of that date, the
federal government officially enters its 2000 budget year. Every federal
function will be affected, from defense to Medicare to payments on the
federal debt.


Jan. 4, 2000: The first-working-day-of-the-year problem

Year 2000 begins on a Saturday. Corporate America will switch on most of
its desktop computers Tuesday, Jan. 4, after a long holiday weekend.
Boot up and hang on to your morning mochas.


Feb. 29, 2000: The Year 2000 leap year problem, Part I

Most programmers know the rules for calculating leap years: Any year
evenly divisible by four is a leap year, except years that also are
divisible by 100. So 1996 is a leap year, but 2000 isn't -- er, right?
Well, there's a third, lesser-known rule that cancels the first two: Any
year divisible by 400 is a leap year, including -- you guessed it --
2000. The question is: How many programmers know that rule?


Dec. 31, 2000: The Year 2000 leap year problem, Part II

Some computers work by counting the number of days in the year. If they
aren't programmed to know that 2000 is a leap year, the machines will be
bewildered when they reach Dec. 31, 2000, the seemingly impossible 366th
day of the year.


Sept. 8, 2001: The Unix end-of-file problem

Unix is the "other" major operating system, a set of instructions that,
like Windows, DOS and MacOS, run the basic functions of a computer. Unix
powers many commercial and Internet computers. Unix tells time
differently, which means that it does not have a year 2000 problem.
Unfortunately, it does have a Sept. 8, 2001, problem. In Unix language,
that date is represented by the number 999,999,999 -- the same number
that some Unix applications use to denote the end of a file.


Circa 2025: The U.S. telephone number problem

By the year 2025 or so, the United States will simply run out of
available seven-digit telephone numbers and area codes. Telephone
companies will have to add digits or revamp the numbering system. That,
in turn, will force software programmers to overhaul every piece of
software that uses phone numbers, plus all databases and archives that
store phone numbers.


Jan. 19, 2038: The other Unix problem

The Unix operating system tells time by counting the number of seconds
elapsed since Jan. 1, 1970. But like your odometer, there are only so
many places on its counter. At seven seconds past 3:14 a.m. on Jan. 19,
2038, the counters on every Unix computer in the world will be full and
will roll over to "0." Many computers will assume it's either Jan. 1,
1970, all over again (who wants to relive the '70s?) or that it's the
end of the world (which may be a better alternative than the preceding).


Circa 2050 to 2075: The Social Security number problem

By 2075, the United States will have exhausted the 1 billion unique
Social Security numbers possible under its nine-digit numbering system.
Year 2000 expert Capers Jones suggests that the nation must be prepared
by 2050 to expand or replace the many software applications that depend
on those numbers.

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 17:33:19 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Calif Leads US with Mobile Tracker
Message-ID: <199809182234.SAA30415@camel7.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Thanks to John Gilmore.


http://www.msnbc.com/local/KNBC/14920.asp

CHP introduces cellular-friendly 911 system

Operators will now be able to capture the
telephone number and location of the caller
within a half-block area
 
LOS ANGELES, Sept. 17 - The California Highway Patrol
this week demonstrated a new countywide 911 system designed
to provide operators with the telephone numbers and
location of callers using mobile telephones.

Los Angeles County is the first in the state to use
the new technology, said CHP Sgt. Ernie Sanchez.
All local 911 calls for the CHP, whether via mobile
phones or "land lines," are routed to the CHP
half-a-millionCommunications Center just west of downtown, 
but mobile phone calls could not be traced until recently, 
Sanchez said.

"It doesn't matter if you live in Pasadena or Arcadia
or West Covina; if you call on a cell phone, that call will
go through the CHP Communications Center" and operators
will be able to capture the telephone number and location
of the caller within a half-block area, Sanchez said.

The enhanced technology has been in use for the past
three weeks, he said.

All major mobile phone companies are participating in
the test and demonstration of the system, Sanchez said,
adding that the technology should be in place nationwide by
2001 under Federal Communications Commission rules.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nnburk 
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 18:46:39 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Navajo Code Talkers
Message-ID: <36030CB8.2DD@yankton.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



The History Channel will broadcast an episode on the role of Navajo Code Talkers in 
WWII tonight at 8pm EST.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 18:55:08 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: [Fwd: Petition for Redress] (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809190022.TAA06495@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:
>From APFN@netbox.com Fri Sep 18 18:05:19 1998
Message-ID: <3602D946.291104DC@netbox.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 15:05:58 -0700
From: American Patriot Friends Network 
Reply-To: APFN@netbox.com
Organization: American Patriot Friends Network
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: "\"apfn@onelist.com\"" 
Subject: [Fwd: Petition for Redress]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

The question is, "Are we a nation of law?"   // Yes // No //
You are either on one side or the other, there is no in-between!
Without Justice, there is JUST_US!
http://www.freeyellow.com/members5/apfn/

Subject: [Fwd: Petition for Redress]
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 14:47:01 -0700
From: American Patriot Friends Network 
Organization: American Patriot Friends Network
To: lorraine@pioche.com

Re: http://www.independentamericans.org/redress.htm
    Petition for Redress

Re: below info...

Subj: Plan to Restore... (APFN Web Page)

Can you please add this link to that APFN page...
http://www.esotericworldnews.com/planto.htm

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: [TheEagle-L] Fwd: Petition for Redress
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 16:49:20 EDT
From: Sagitt1@aol.com
Reply-To: theeagle-l@egroups.com
To: slane@moment.net, texnat57@gateway.net, dream@bga.com, TFIJDSHOW@aol.com,
     TBS , TBS ,
     TBS , TBS ,
     TBS , TBS , truelaw@swbell.net,
     LORDFOUL28@aol.com, syncro2@flash.net, singer@ccms.net,
     mltaylor@freewwweb.com, Misty1941@aol.com, msf@texas.net,
     gene.ritter@mci2000.com, S62140Y@aol.com, PLanders@interserv.com,
     Jbyrd2@acad.stedwards.edu, patricia.warfel@austin.ppdi.com
CC: ANOTHER PATRIOT ,
     "Archibald Roberts Col." , BioFractal@aol.com,
     CENTRAL ALABAMA MILITIA ,
     Frances L Hartge , Militia264@aol.com,
     JOHN DI NIARDO , Medesec@aol.com,
     "Mike & LaurieO'Donnell" , MilitiaNet@aol.com,
     "mrbill888@ycsi.net" ,
     Patricia Neill ,
     SCOTTSDALE , "snoball@idt.net" ,
     SOUTHSANDY@aol.com, "spiff@netusa1.net" ,
     TheVizor@aol.com, Yechiel Mann , HRomero@X25.net,
     tate , Nicholas ,
     Hoosier Reb , Rosie ,
     Norseman , Wolfeyes ,
     Partridge , Matlock111@aol.com

If anyone out there is from Ohio...please respond to Lainnie, please.

In a message dated 9/18/98 3:42:37 PM Central Daylight Time,
lainnie@zoomnet.net writes:

<<
 I have a question and maybe someone out there can help me.
 I live in Southern Ohio.......and I have been thinking about trying to get
 an e-mail list going with others from Southern OHIO......to receive and
 exchange information on issues that involve
 the mistreatment of the people of S. Oh. by the systems.....political,human
 services,courts ,jails
 Constitutional issues etc.
 I am new at this and really have very little idea of how to go about
 establishing this e-mail
 connection.
 Is there anyone out there that can give suggestions or advice ?
 I'd appreciate so much your assistence.


 lainnie
  >>

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Petition for Redress
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 16:42:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: lainnie@zoomnet.net
To: Sagitt1@aol.com

At 04:19 PM 9/18/98 EDT, you wrote:
>You must all go to this web site and read this heart wrenching powerful
>Redress. If this doesn't get you off your couch, you are already dead.

>
>http://www.independentamericans.org/redress.htm
>Petition for Redress
>http://www.independentamericans.org/redress.htm
>
>Excellent..........just excellent!

I have a question and maybe someone out there can help me.
I live in Southern Ohio.......and I have been thinking about trying to get
an e-mail list going with others from Southern OHIO......to recieve and
exchange information on issues that involve the mistreatment of the 
people of S. Oh. by the systems.....political,human services,courts,
jails Constitutional issues etc.
I am new at this and really have very little idea of how to go about
establishing this e-mail connection.
Is there anyone out there that can give suggestions or advice ?
I'd appreciate so much your assistence.

lainnie

Media & Patriot Web Pages: (Bookmark)
http://home.rica.net/CaptainNemo/pers/patsites.htm

APFN
http://www.freeyellow.com/members5/apfn/

----------------------------------------------------------------------
CONTACTING CONGRESS:


+++ CONGRESS +++ U.S. CONGRESS - CALL 1-800-504-0031 OR 202-224-3121
                                      1-800-343-3222
>The new number is: 1-800-361-5222 (90001). When you call the number,
> follow the prompts. When asked for your 5 letter zip code, enter the
> number 90001. You will be connected to the main capitol switchboard.
> Just ask for the congressman or the senator you wish to speak to. If you
> enter your home zip code, you will be connected directly to your
> Congress "CRITTER". (Congressman or Senator)Posted:08/11/98

Contact Congress via the net - Elected Net:
http://www.hoboes.com/html/Politics/electednet/

Netline To Congress - Question of the Day
http://www.netline-to-congress.com/

The Best Congress Money Can Buy
http://mojones.com/COINOP_CONGRESS/data_viewer/data_viewer.html

SENATE:
http://www.senate.gov
SENATE EMAIL ADDRESS:
http://www.senate.gov/senator/membmail.html
http://www.senate.gov/senator/state.html
Senate Judiciary Committee members with contact information:
http://www.senate.gov/committee/judiciary.html
Senate - send email:
http://www.freecongress.org/jsmp/ContactSenators.htm
*** Letter to Senators:
http://members.foothills.net/ricefile/index.html

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES - 
http://www.house.gov
House Of Representatives (EMAIL)
http://www.house.gov/writerep/
House Judiciary Committee members with contact information:
http://www.house.gov/judiciary/mem105.htm
HOUSE AS THE SPEAKER
http://speakernews.house.gov/asknewt/
QUICK SEARCH TEXT OF BILLS 105th CONGRESS:
http://thomas.loc.gov/home/thomas.html?66,9
HOUSE - DOWNLOADING BILL TEXT
http://thomas.loc.gov/home/billdwnloadhelp.html
CONTRACTING CONGRESS
http://www.visi.com/juan/congress/

----------------------------------------------------------------The moderator of the
apfn@egroups.com group
would like to invite you to join the group. 
Reply-To:  apfn-req-s6a1@egroups.com

If you join, you can read group messages in your e-mail
in-box or on the Web.
http://www.eGroups.com/list/apfn/

To accept this invitation, please use the "Send Reply"
to apfn-req-s6a1@egroups.com send back a blank message. 

Or you can accept by going to this Web location:

http://www.egroups.com/subscribe?list=apfn&vcode=6a1

If you have questions, please feel free to contact the 
moderator of this group at apfn@netbox.com or visit
http://www.eGroups.com/info/help.html 


"There can't be a crisis next week. My schedule is already full."
                            ~ Henry Kissinger ~

*=======================================================================*
  "It's the action, not the fruit of the action, that's important. You
  have to do the right thing.  It may not be in your power, may not be
  in your time, that there'll be any fruit.  But that doesn't mean you
  stop doing the right thing.  You may never know what results come from
  your action.  But if you do nothing, there will be no result."
                                -Gandhi
*=======================================================================*
       1 if by land, 2 if by sea.  Paul Revere - encryption 1775




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 19:29:06 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Reno in contempt of Congress? [CNN]
Message-ID: <199809190054.TAA06601@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> X-within-URL: http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1998/09/17/reno.burton/

>    WASHINGTON (AllPolitics, Sept. 17) -- Rep. Dan Burton (R-Ind.) said
>    Thursday he intends to ask the full House to cite Attorney General
>    Janet Reno for contempt of Congress for refusing to turn over internal
>    documents related to the Justice Department's investigation into
>    alleged fund-raising irregularities during the 1996 election
>    campaign.. Burton Rep. Dan Burton 
>    
>    Burton chairs the House Reform and Oversight Committee, which has been
>    conducting its own investigation into allegations of campaign finance
>    abuses.
>    
>    In response, Reno said she was "disappointed" that Burton was pressing
>    ahead with a contempt citation, saying that she had made
>    "extraordinary accommodations" to supply Burton's committee with
>    information about the Justice Department's probe.

[text deleted]
    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Jim Thompson" 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 01:36:55 +0800
To: 
Subject: Oh my God...
Message-ID: <002d01bde375$d5f31b80$7c7ecfc0@stewart.smallworks.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Boundary..3996.1071713801.multipart/signed"

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Content-Type: text/plain
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Forgive me if this has been covered on cypherpunks.  I hang out on
coderpunks,
and this is far too political for that list.  Please keep me Cc'd on any
discussion
on this topic.

If true, RSA is dirty, SDI is dirty, Robertson Stevens is dirty, and Ron
Brown,
Jim Bizdos, Al Gore, John Huang and Sanford Robertson are going to jail.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/smith/980915.comcs.html

Jim Thompson / Smallworks, Inc. / jim@smallworks.com
      512 338 0619 phone / 512 338 0625 fax
C++ is like jamming a helicopter inside a Miata and expecting some
sort of improvement.	    -- Drew Olbrich


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: inform@trustedsystems.com
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 22:06:48 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Trusted Systems Services Newsletter
Message-ID: <199809190303.WAA24054@duracef.shout.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




***************************************************************

************* Trusted Systems Services Newsletter *************

                       17 September 98
                 http://www.trustedsystems.com


Thanks for your past interest in Trusted Systems Services. We've sincerely been overwhelmed by the response to our "Windows NT Security Guidelines Report for NSA Research" give-away as well as our Super CACLS networking administrators software tool and wanted to let you know what we've been up to lately. 


          ** Addenda & Errata Web Site for Windows NT Security Guidelines

          ** Super CACLS Report

          ** Advanced Checker Status Report
             (formerly known as Checker or Super Checker)

          ** Trusted Systems Services Selected by Microsoft  
             To Review Configurations for Securing Windows NT


We'd like to send occasional announcements, but if you want to be removed from our list, please tell us. (To unsubscribe, just send a reply to this e-mail with the word "unsubscribe" as the Subject.)


***************************************************************

           ADDENDA & ERRATA WEB SITE FOR WINDOWS NT      
                     SECURITY GUIDELINES

We now have an Addendad and Errata web page for our Windows NT Security Guidelines. We highly recommend you periodically visit this page, especially if you are actively using these guidelines. Some of the addenda topics include "Limiting Installers in the WINNT & Registry ACL Settings," "Minimizing Services & Stolen Service Password," and "Software Installation that "Moves" New Items into Protected Directories." http://www.trustedsystems.com/NSAGuideAdd.htm


***************************************************************

                      SUPER CACLS REPORT                     

The latest version of Super CACLS is version 2.52. If you've licensed an earlier version, you can receive a free upgrade from our web site by using your update code. Trusted Systems Services (and Super CACLS) have been selected to be a security sponsor of the upcoming 1998 Compaq Grand Slam Tennis Cup to be held in Munich, Germany this month. Super CACLS was used to set up the network for all journalists in the Olympic Hall. Stefan Werner, Chief Technical Officer for this event said, "We like Super CACLS because of its enhanced and easy-to-use features in modifying ACLs for securing NT-mass-rollouts." If you haven't tried Super CACLS, you're invited to try our full demo available at : http://www.trustedsystems.com/SCACLSMain.htm

***************************************************************     

                ADVANCED CHECKER STATUS REPORT      
         (formerly known as Checker or Super Checker)

Our newest networking security tool, Advanced Checker, is in the formal testing phase. Advanced Checker is a fully-featured, programmable scripting language that checks, and in some cases corrects, the security attributes of a Windows NT Server or Workstation. Advanced Checker lets you create simple "scripts" in text files using any text editor. You then run Advanced Checker which reads the scripts and performs its security checks. The security parameters it checks include the ACL's of files and directories on NTFS file systems, Registry keys and share directories, audit SACL's, registry values, audit policy, rights policy and more. 

We believe that Advanced Checker will fundamentally change the way that beginning and especially advanced networking administrators monitor and manage the security of their networks. It gives you unprecedented power and flexibility in an easy-to-use package that we are committed to expand and improve through feedback from our customers. We hope you'll give this product a try when it debuts later this year. For a complete description: http://www.trustedsystems.com/AdvancedChecker.htm 

***************************************************************

       TSS SELECTED BY MICROSOFT TO REVIEW CONFIGURATIONS  
                   FOR SECURING WINDOWS NT 

URBANA, IL September 1, 1998  Trusted Systems Services, Inc. announced today that Microsoft has selected them to perform an independent, detailed review and analysis of the recommended Security Configurations for securing Windows NT-based systems. TSS will undertake a thorough analysis of the broad range of Windows NT-based systems security settings that typical users of Windows NT apply to secure their systems.  These recommendations will help administrators to secure their Windows NT-based systems using the Security Configuration Editor tool that is part of Windows NT 4.0 Service Pack 4. 

"Trusted Systems has practical experience in securing Windows NT-based systems," said Peter Brundrett, Windows NT Security Program Manager at Microsoft Corp. "Our customers will be able to use the results of this analysis to secure their Windows NT-based systems." For the complete press release, go to: http://www.trustedsystems.com/SCTS.htm


***************************************************************

This message was sent to you by Advanced Checker.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 21:30:20 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: BAN DOGS..
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



All of this reminds me of my favorite Vinnie Moscaritolo quote:

"If we could just pass a few more laws, we could *all* be criminals!"

:-).

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 21:30:22 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Cyberpunks Signal-to-Noise Ratio
In-Reply-To: <19980919012849.4800.qmail@hades.rpini.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 9:28 PM -0400 on 9/18/98, Anonymous wrote:
> Quoting Tim May (tcmay@got.net):
> > And that proceeds in spurts, not surprisingly, as topics come to the fore.
> Are you seriously advocating further discussion of Clinton's penis?
Hmmm... Speaking of noise to signal, I feel a, um, cascade, um, coming on...
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 15:31:18 +0800
To: 5j0g50e0@auto.sixdegrees.com
Subject: Re: Hacker D00D
Message-ID: <199809182026.WAA06050@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Hey, fuck you!  Maybe Hacker D00D is the mother I always wanted!
Go stick your head in a fucking incinerator!


At 12:49 PM 9/18/98 -0700, I.A. Eaglemail wrote:
>DENY
>
>>From cypherpunks-errors@toad.com Fri Sep 18 12:23:32 1998
>>Received: (from majordom@localhost) by toad.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id 
>MAA22376 for cypherpunks-unedited-outgoing; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 12:16:52 
>-0700 (PDT)
>>Received: from neptune.sixdegrees.com (neptune.sixdegrees.com 
>[206.41.12.34]) by toad.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA22371 for 
>; Fri, 18 Sep 1998 12:16:49 -0700 (PDT)
>>Message-Id: <199809181916.MAA22371@toad.com>
>>Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 15:15:42 -0500
>>From: "sixdegrees"<5j0g50e0@auto.sixdegrees.com>
>>To: "Joe Cyberspanker"
>>Subject:  Hacker D00D
>>Sender: owner-cypherpunks@toad.com
>>Precedence: bulk
>>
>>You've been listed again. Looks like this whole sixdegrees 
>>thing is working. Your networking potential is growing by the 
>>second. Hacker D00D listed you as "Mother."
>>
>>Please let us know if you are in fact Hacker's Mother:
>>
>>====================================================================
>>TO RESPOND:
>>
>>FIRST, click your mail program's reply button. 
>>
>>SECOND, in the reply e-mail that opens, on the first line of 
>>the message body, type only the word CONFIRM or the word DENY.
>>
>>THEN CLICK SEND.
>>
>>If you prefer, you can take care of this contact confirmation 
>>by visiting the site at http://www.sixdegrees.com and going to 
>>MY CONTACTS after logging in on the home page. You can also list 
>>new contacts there.
>>
>>We look forward to hearing from you.
>>
>>====================================================================
>>PLEASE NOTE: All replies to this address are processed by a computer.
>>If you have any problems, questions or requests send an e-mail to 
>>issues@sixdegrees.com and someone will get back to you as soon as 
>>possible.
>>====================================================================
>>
>>
>>E.DB.ANB.4
>>
>
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Hohensee 
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 17:47:47 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Democracy... (fwd) The Nature of Religion
In-Reply-To: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A192846AD@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
Message-ID: <3602E3DA.91CC48D4@is9.nyu.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Michael Motyka wrote:
> 
> Michael Hohensee wrote:
> >
> > Actually, you may be interested to know that *everyone* is religious, in
> > some manner.  Everyone has at least one untestable assumption about the
> > world.  That is, everyone has a kind of faith.  Let's give some
> > examples:
> >
> > Christians believe that there exists a Being, called God, which somehow
> > Moslems believe in the existance of a different God, and have different
> > Atheists believe that God *doesn't* exist, which is essentially the same
> > Even people who are nonreligious, or agnostic, have a religion.  For
> > The Transcendentalists of the 19th century, for example, do not really
> > Scientists tend to think differently.  Their beliefs can be described by
> 
> Lots of scientists look pretty religious about their 'science' to me.

I believe that I said that.  We religiously believe that the universe
exists, but, since we're honest with ourselves, we admit that we can't
prove it, and simply choose to act under the assumption that it is real.
(after all, that model seems to work pretty well)

> Their untestable assumption being that they are capable of comprehending
> what may be beyond them. 

No.  All we assume is that the universe exists.  Whether or not we can
fully comprehend everything about how it works is another question
entirely.  We currently understand all kinds of interesting things about
how the universe works, but no one says that that's everything.  If
something is physically beyond our understanding, then of course we
won't be able to understand it,  but we haven't hit such a wall yet. 
Who knows, if we ever do hit that wall, we may be able to build machines
which can help us understand (or at least take advantage of) things
beyond that wall.

I'd say to worry about it when we come to it. :)

> I'm now an avowed Apatheist - I don't give a damn what the answers to
> unanswerable questions are. Especially when those answers come from
> someone with an obvious agenda. Is that religious?
>
> Put a worm on the hook, pop the top off my beer. Argh! It's Coors. I
> only wish it were imaginary. If not Guiness, at least let it be a
> Corona.

So you do believe (or at least act under the assumption) that the
universe is real, then? ;)




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Whtsametau@aol.com
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 22:06:00 +0800
To: Coolness 
Subject: Guess Who!
Message-ID: <58adfa62.36031df2@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



It's Me!  Stan!

I need technical advice this time.  How does one write to a newsgroup via e-
mail?

Thanks in advance, cyphers!

And check out my Brave Combo discography again, I'm sure I've had some
interesting upgrades since I was last here,

Stan Rosenthal,
Stan and the Sequencers
members.aol.com/StanSqncrs/

Stan's Brave Combo discography
members.aol.com/whtsametau/BraveCombo/




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Frantz 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 01:26:46 +0800
To: Robert Hettinga 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 8:38 PM -0800 9/17/98, Robert Hettinga wrote:
>Anyway, In light of more recent crypto-shenanigans from Billary, and the
>fact that this thing's a small crowd, I figured I'd ask if anyone on these
>lists had a question they wanted me to ask him.

Probably a bit late, but I would ask, "If the government is going to
require GAK, how is it going to demonstrate that all the keys is accessed
were accessed according to legal proceedings?"  Another way of asking is,
"How do we ensure that all government accesses to keys become publicly
known within a reasonable amount of time."  (I would define reasonable as
much less than 5 years.)

(I've been reading David Brin's "The Transparent Society".)


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz       | If hate must be my prison  | Periwinkle -- Consulting
(408)356-8506     | lock, then love must be    | 16345 Englewood Ave.
frantz@netcom.com | the key.     - Phil Ochs   | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 16:51:06 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Your new password
Message-ID: <199809182146.XAA13489@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Name: Mark Salamon
spamhaven password: dumbshit

Congratulations Mark. You're well on your way to becoming a full
member of the Hall of Shame. Here is your member password: dumbshit. Use
it to log-in on the home page at the Spam Haven Web site,
http://www.sixdegrees.com. We'll ask you for a little more information to
complete your registration, like how many thousands of dollars in
resources you've stolen in your career, and then you'll be ready to start
networking.

It's important that you check your postal mail often, because it will only
hold so many magazine subscriptions. Your membership will not be complete
until you make yourself look even more clueless. 

Once you've successfully made an even bigger fool out of yourself, just go
to Personal Profile and you'll be able to choose your own password. We
suggest that you set it to something which describes your company, 
like "careless," "thief," "pathetic," or "spamhaven."

Thanks for becoming part of the Internet Hall of Shame. We're looking
forward to seeing you at the site.

====================================================================
PLEASE NOTE: You may receive many magazine subscriptions in the next 
few weeks. If you believe that you have been classed as a complete 
loser in error, go to a reputable company instead of a spam haven. 
Send all communications to Spamford at LWRules@BELLATLANTIC.NET and
someone will get back to you as soon as possible.
====================================================================

E.DI.ASS.1

On Fri, 18 Sep 1998, sixdegrees wrote:

> 
> Name: Lefty CyberSlasher
> sixdegrees password: landmelt
> 
> Congratulations Lefty. You're well on your way to 
> becoming a full sixdegrees(tm) member. Here is your member 
> password: landmelt. Use it to log-in on the home page 
> at the sixdegrees Web site, http://www.sixdegrees.com. 
> We'll ask you for a little more information to complete your 
> registration, and then you'll be ready to start networking. 
> 
> It's important that you return to the site and log-in. Your 
> membership will not be complete until you do so.
> 
> Once you've successfully logged in with your password, just go 
> to Personal Profile and you'll be able to choose your own 
> password.
> 
> Thanks for becoming part of sixdegrees. We're looking forward 
> to seeing you at the site. 
> 
> ====================================================================
> PLEASE NOTE: All replies to this address are processed by a computer.
> If you believe you received this e-mail in error, and it was not your 
> intention to become a sixdegrees member, or if you have any problems, 
> questions or requests send an e-mail to issues@sixdegrees.com
> and someone will get back to you as soon as possible.
> ====================================================================
> 
> 
> E.SI.BAM.1
> 
> 






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 18:14:36 +0800
To: CyberPorno@XXXHotFucks.COM
Subject: Welcome to the CyberPorno Members List!
Message-ID: <199809182308.BAA20354@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



ERROR: The return address was not valid. Accordingly, the administrative
contact of the site has been signed up for the CyberPorno mailing list.

Thank you for mailing the CyberPorno mailing list, Mark! You're well on your
way to receiving lots of CyberPorno. As you must know since you mailed us,
we specialize in ensuring that you receive as many porno ads, binaries,
sexual propositions, and copies of the Starr Report as possible. 

Accordingly as per the agreement, your address is being submitted to
alt.sex.wanted, alt.binaries.pictures.erotica, and over 200 Web sex sites.
Your address is also being signed up for 100 copies of the Starr Report, 
and each page will be sent as an uncompressed graphics file. You have also
been signed up with 15 XXX Pics of the Hour clubs, so you'll never be
without again! Your address and name are also being submitted to over 
25 Web personals sites for gay men, 2 sites for men with small penises, and
17 sites for people with severe sexual dysfunctions.

You're in luck and got us while we're offering a special limited time deal.
As a FREE bonus, your name, home address, phone number, email address, and
place of employment have been sent to the New York Times and the State of
New York. Congratulations! Tomorrow you'll be a registered sex offender,
kiddy porn trader, and all around disgusting guy!

Since their addresses were on this too, your coworkers have also been signed
up.

Once again, thank you for mailing the CyberPorno mailing list.

====================================================================
PLEASE NOTE: All messages to the CyberPorno mailing list are 
processed by a computer. If you believe you have been added to the
CyberPorno membership list in error, that's too bad because, like 
sixdegrees(tm), we don't care about your complaints. If you have 
questions or requests send an e-mail to nobody@replay.com and 
someone will get back to you before the sun goes nova.
====================================================================

On Fri, 18 Sep 1998, sixdegrees wrote:

>
> Name: Spermy CyberPorno
> sixdegrees password: rampnull
>
> Congratulations Spermy. You're well on your way to
> becoming a full sixdegrees(tm) member. Here is your member
> password: rampnull. Use it to log-in on the home page
> at the sixdegrees Web site, http://www.sixdegrees.com.
> We'll ask you for a little more information to complete your
> registration, and then you'll be ready to start networking.
>
> It's important that you return to the site and log-in. Your
> membership will not be complete until you do so.
>
> Once you've successfully logged in with your password, just go
> to Personal Profile and you'll be able to choose your own
> password.
>
> Thanks for becoming part of sixdegrees. We're looking forward
> to seeing you at the site.
>
> ====================================================================
> PLEASE NOTE: All replies to this address are processed by a computer.
> If you believe you received this e-mail in error, and it was not your
> intention to become a sixdegrees member, or if you have any problems,
> questions or requests send an e-mail to issues@sixdegrees.com
> and someone will get back to you as soon as possible.
> ====================================================================
>
>
> E.SI.BAM.1
>
>




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Alan Olsen 
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 12:23:56 +0800
To: Robert Hettinga 
Subject: Re: Questions for Magaziner?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Fri, 18 Sep 1998, Robert Hettinga wrote:

> Anyway, In light of more recent crypto-shenanigans from Billary, and the
> fact that this thing's a small crowd, I figured I'd ask if anyone on these
> lists had a question they wanted me to ask him.

"Was the encryption used by Bill Clinton to encrypt his deposition
escrowed, and if so, with whom?"

> One I want to ask, right off the top of my head is, "Given your recent
> successes in regulating foreign cryptography, what's your timetable for
> regulating domestic cryptography?"

Or banning outright.

alan@ctrl-alt-del.com | Note to AOL users: for a quick shortcut to reply
Alan Olsen            | to my mail, just hit the ctrl, alt and del keys.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 20:21:06 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Cyberpunks Signal-to-Noise Ratio
Message-ID: <19980919012849.4800.qmail@hades.rpini.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Quoting Tim May (tcmay@got.net):
> And that proceeds in spurts, not surprisingly, as topics come to the fore.

Are you seriously advocating further discussion of Clinton's penis?
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Robert A. Costner" 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 00:46:11 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Airline security searches
In-Reply-To: <199809190501.HAA12423@replay.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980919014810.035277ec@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 07:01 AM 9/19/98 +0200, Anonymous wrote:
>This analysis, it turned out, was wiping a coffee filter over the strap
>of its bag, and sticking the coffee filter into a slot on a machine.
>No solvent even.  The machine had columns labelled TNT RDX NITRO PETN HMX.
>I recognized the first four as high explosives.  Later, I wondered
>if people with angina (who take nitro orally) ever set this off.
>Most of them, of course, are not bearded eastern-european/semetic
>guys in their 30's who look worried and in a hurry.

I didn't take a close look at the process, but I had this happen to me on a
flight headed towards San Jose using America West.  They did the chemical
screen here in Atlanta airport.  I'm white, normal looking Atlanta guy, but
they said at the ticket counter they were doing random searches, handed me
a piece of paper, and said I would get my boarding pass after I was checked.

  -- Robert Costner                  Phone: (770) 512-8746
     Electronic Frontiers Georgia    mailto:pooh@efga.org  
     http://www.efga.org/            run PGP 5.0 for my public key




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Alan Olsen 
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 13:34:16 +0800
To: Robert Hettinga 
Subject: Re: Questions for Magaziner?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Fri, 18 Sep 1998, Robert Hettinga wrote:

> Anyway, In light of more recent crypto-shenanigans from Billary, and the
> fact that this thing's a small crowd, I figured I'd ask if anyone on these
> lists had a question they wanted me to ask him.

"With all the demands from Governent to escrow keys, what steps are being
taken to protect the these keys and/or backdoors from misuse from people
within the Government and those outside of the Government?"

"Would you use escrowed cryptography for your private communications?  Who
would you trust to hold those keys?"

alan@ctrl-alt-del.com | Note to AOL users: for a quick shortcut to reply
Alan Olsen            | to my mail, just hit the ctrl, alt and del keys.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Whtsametau@aol.com
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 01:50:35 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: It's Nobody's Business!
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I see things haven't changed much around here.  [BIG GRIN!]

Stan, bass/vocals
Nobody's Business
members.aol.com/StanSqncrs/nobiz.html




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 20:00:50 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Calif Leads US with Mobile Tracker
Message-ID: <199809190059.CAA27983@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Fri, 18 Sep 1998, John Young wrote:

> 
> Thanks to John Gilmore.
> 
> 
> http://www.msnbc.com/local/KNBC/14920.asp
> 
> CHP introduces cellular-friendly 911 system
> 
> Operators will now be able to capture the
> telephone number and location of the caller
> within a half-block area

While I understand the implications and outrage here, anybody who uses
cellular phones as a measure of security is a total idiot. The connections
usually aren't encrypted, they're radiated to the rest of the area, and
your position can be triangulated (half-ass) if nothing else.

With that in mind, maybe this one is actually legitimate. If criminals
and/or patriots are that stupid, they'll get caught for something else
like driving drunk two states away.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Alan Olsen 
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 16:06:14 +0800
To: Tim May 
Subject: Re: Questions for Magaziner?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Fri, 18 Sep 1998, Tim May wrote:

> (I'm leaving the damned multiple lists cc:ed on this, as I have no idea
> where this thread came from. For those of you who send me notes saying I am
> not allowed to post on your list, plonk.)

I usually leave most of the cc:s due to not knowing who is reading what
anymore.  (Gateways being as they are...)

> >"Would you use escrowed cryptography for your private communications?  Who
> >would you trust to hold those keys?"
> 
> Well, I believe that even asking these sorts of questions (and possibly
> getting answers from government) plays into the hands of the GAKkers.

Depends.  With the right questions (assuming you get honest (Ha!) answers)
you can make them look like control freaks, hypocrites, and/or worse.

Hitting them with the unexpected can generate soundbites that can be used
for the cause.

Besides...  If you don't challenge them in public, the public tends to get
the impression that no one opposes this KRAP.

> After all, suppose they give pretty good answers? What if, for example,
> they propose a committee consisting of the entire Supreme Court, the
> Director of the Sierra Club, and so on, and say that a _unanimous_ vote is
> required to gain access to a key?

I would respond that they were lying.  I would also ask them if it was
going to be like the current wiretap authorization commissions that just
rubber stamp requests.

> Does this at all change the fundamental unconstitutionality of telling me
> that I will face imprisonment if I speak or write in a manner which is not
> part of their "escrow" arrangement? If I keep a diary without depositing an
> escrowed key with this noble, careful, thoughtful committee of wise persons?

Of course not.  And questions of constitutionality need to be asked of
them directly to their faces.  Without that direct confronation, they will
do whatever they damn well please.  (Not as if they don't now...)

> Of course not. My speech, my writing, my private codes, my whisperings, my
> phone conversations...all of these...are not subject to govenmwental
> approval. "Congress shall make no law..."

Encrypt! Encrypt! OK!

> Doesn't say that Congress or the courts of the President get to declare
> illegal certain modes of speaking. (*)
> 
> (* Please, I hope no one brings up "loud speech," "shouting fire," "obscene
> speech," "seditious speech," "slanderous speech," etc. This is well-trod
> ground, but clearly all of these apparent limits on speech, whether one
> agrees with them or not, have nothing to do with an overbroad requirement
> that speech only be in certain languages, that letters only be written on
> carbon paper with a copy filed with the government, and so on. The
> restrictions on _some_ kinds of speech are not a license to license speech,
> as it were, or to require escrow of papers, letters, diaries, and phone
> conversations and such.)

I am willing to argue that most of those restrictions are against what the
founding fathers meant when they wrote the document.  But currently we
live in a land where "consensus doublethink" is the nature of the law.

> My point about Alan's (and others') points is that if we get engaged in
> this kind of debate about how key escrow might work, we shift the debate
> from where it ought to be to where they _want_ it to be, namely, to issues
> of practicality.

What needs to be pointed out is that it CANNOT work.  By asking them if
they would use it, you point out that the system is so untrustworthy that
they themselves would not even use it.  (And if you say they would, you
just start laughing.)

> My view is that my writings are mine. They can try to get them with a
> search warrant or a court order, but they'd better not threaten me with
> imprisonment if I choose to write in some language they can't read. And
> that's all crypto really is, of course. Just another language.

The current administration has taken the tact that ANY argument, no matter
how irrational, to advance their legal position, must be used.  That has
to colapse opon itself after a while.  Whether it be through the total
errosion of their reputation capitol (What little is left.) or through
judges who cry "enough" and toss out the entire specious line of
reasoning.

alan@ctrl-alt-del.com | Note to AOL users: for a quick shortcut to reply
Alan Olsen            | to my mail, just hit the ctrl, alt and del keys.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 01:31:24 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
In-Reply-To: <199809190527.HAA13780@replay.com>
Message-ID: <199809190626.GAA09380@earth.wazoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



  > Is anybody on this list form one of these nations just out of
  > curiosity?

  > Iran, Iraq,Libya, Syria,Sudan, North Korea and Cuba.

Yes.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 00:05:40 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199809190501.HAA12423@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



		
So I fly home Friday from San Jose.  Probably because I was
in a hurry, after walking through the magnetometer and x-raying
my stuff, a security dude grabbed my laptop and said he wanted
to 'analyze' it.  Yeah sure whatever, I decided not to protest
I was late for my flight.

This analysis, it turned out, was wiping a coffee filter over the strap
of its bag, and sticking the coffee filter into a slot on a machine.
No solvent even.  The machine had columns labelled TNT RDX NITRO PETN HMX.
I recognized the first four as high explosives.  Later, I wondered
if people with angina (who take nitro orally) ever set this off.
Most of them, of course, are not bearded eastern-european/semetic
guys in their 30's who look worried and in a hurry.

Anyway, that was it, and I made my flight.  Didn't even open
the laptop's case.  

The machine name was ION-something; I wonder whether it sucked vapors
from the fiber disk or whether it was a neutron-spectrometer (?) device.

(Had this been a UK Customs 'inspection' of the contents of the disk, I
might have had to explain the half-gig of "noise" I have on the disk.
Only, it really is noise. Really.)

Anyway, the moral of the story: 

Don't store your laptop with your explosives :-) 












  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 00:30:28 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199809190527.HAA13780@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Is anybody on this list form one of these nations just out of curiosity?

Iran, Iraq,Libya, Syria,Sudan, North Korea and Cuba. 

I would find it funny considering the exemption made for them in the new crypto policy :)




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 01:09:26 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199809190609.IAA16339@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>a security dude grabbed my laptop and said he wanted
>to 'analyze' it.  Yeah sure whatever, I decided not to protest
>I was late for my flight.
>This analysis, it turned out, was wiping a coffee filter over the strap
>of its bag, and sticking the coffee filter into a slot on a machine.
>No solvent even.  The machine had columns labelled TNT RDX NITRO PETN HMX.
.....
>The machine name was ION-something; I wonder whether it sucked vapors
>from the fiber disk or whether it was a neutron-spectrometer (?) device.

Try asking them where they've posted the California Prop 65 warning
indicating which toxic chemicals are used in the system :-)




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 07:59:07 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: atheism (was: RE: Democracy... (fwd)) (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809191325.IAA08217@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: pjm@spe.com
> Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 11:24:32 +0200
> Subject: atheism (was: RE: Democracy... (fwd))

>      Not all philosophies are religions.

If we are talking philosophies of the range to include 'natural philosophy'
(ie physics) then you are correct. Fortunately, this attempt at shifting the
topic of discussion away from personal or individual philosophies relating
to the relationship between individuals, God, and the cosmos  won't work.

This is called a straw-man. Pick an argument that you want to (dis)prove but
don't know how. Then pick a similar but non-identical (or fail to prove the
identity) which one knowns how to (dis)prove. Finaly claim that the second
easier (since it is (dis)provable) problem is identical to the first.

>  Asserting so is an attempt
> to make one or both of the terms meaningless.

And trying to change the subject of discourse is as well. A philosophy is a
set of beliefs, period. In this particular case we are discussing personal
or individual philosophies and from definition and practice they are
identical. Religion after all is nothing more than a set of beliefs and
therefore falls under 'personal philosophy'.

Just remember this, it's your ugly baby.

>      There are two forms of atheism (visit alt.atheism.moderated for
> an unending discussion).  "Strong" atheists state that they "believe
> that god does not exist."  "Weak" atheists state that they "do not
> believe that god exists."

Changing the side on which the 'do not' resides doesn't change the meaning.
These two sentences are identical in content and meaning.

I belive god does not exist

I do not believe god exists

or,

^(A) = (^A)

>      Do you believe in leprechauns, because there is no proof that
> they don't exist?  Do you believe in the Hindu pantheon?

Whether I believe in them makes no difference to their existance (you really
really need to quit taking drugs). This is the same sort of crap reasoning
the UFO nut-cases partake in. They run around asking "Do you believe in
aliens?" when the question that needs asking is "How do we prove aliens have
been here?", and in many cases they take the two to be equivalent.

Hindu pantheon is a different form of Pantheism that I practice. I don't
agree with many of the points that Hindu, Aztec, Buddhist, New Age, etc.
pantheist practice, it's too anthropocentric for my taste and in the case
of New Age Pantheism (gag) they've simply given transcendance a new form.
And I further believe that the Hindu practice of sweeping ants out of ones
way and wearing a veil to inhibit bug inhalation is taking it too far the
other way (though I respect and practice the spirit of their actions).

Respect does not mean subserviance.

>      Without reason and logic, how do you propose to prove these
> assertions?

I'm not trying to prove anything, you are. I'm just blowing holes in your
reasoning.

>  Reason and logic don't "constrain", they provide a
> framework for discovery.  This framework is unavailable to, and indeed
> actively rejected by, believers in the supernatural.  Any meaningful
> definition of the word "inquiry" presupposes the use of logic.

Ohhhh, supernatural is by definition in this discussion equivalent to
transcendental. I'll say it again, there are two types of religion - those
who believe transcendentalism exists (ie traditional religions) and those
that don't (eg Pantheism). It is not reasonable nor logical to expect the
natural rules of experience to be recognized by the supernatural. 

Now I can inquire into many things without using a particular type of logic
(you keep writing as if there is only one form of logic - perhaps this is
the root shortcoming in your reasoning). So trying to say that inquiry is
equivalent to using logic is a misunderstanding of both inquiry and logic.

The question that you are skirting around is:

If God exists and created the universe, does this imply that it is
constrained by that creation?

You can answer that question with three answers:

Yes	Pantheism and some other forms of pagan religions

No	Traditional religions

?	Agnostic (if you'd like to know,
        Nihilism (if you believe the question is irrelevant),
        etc.

>      All faith-based assertions are by definition irrational.  Mystics
> frequently speak of transcendence as if the word denotes a concept
> with a particular meaning, but never provide a coherent definition.
> Perhaps you'll surprise me?

Transcendence is the belief that there is something more than the earthly
veil. In other words, if you practice a transcendantal religion then by
definition you believe in a ghost-in-the-machine of one form or another.

If you like you can think of it as one set of religions believes there is
purpose and reason in existance whereas others believe that it is all random
dice (and yes that is a broad brush I'm painting with).


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 08:26:26 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Tougher laws are sought to seize cash
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Delivered-To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
X-Sender: believer@telepath.com
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 08:45:24 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com
From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Tougher laws are sought to seize cash
Mime-Version: 1.0
Sender: owner-ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
Precedence: list
Reply-To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  Bergen (New Jersey) Record
http://www.bergen.com/news/njmone199809154.htm

Tougher laws are sought to seize cash

Tuesday, September 15, 1998

By ADAM PIORE
Washington Correspondent

WASHINGTON -- Federal law enforcement
officials on Monday unveiled a plan they say will
help stop the flow of billions of dollars in drug money
across the nation's borders every year.

Hailed as a "major step forward" in the fight against
money laundering, the Justice Department proposal
would broaden the government's ability to seize the
profits of such illicit activity as drug dealing.

It now is illegal to try to leave the country with more
than $10,000 in currency without reporting it to U.S.
Customs officials. Violations are punishable by up to
five years in prison and seizure of the money. But in
June, the U.S. Supreme Court dealt a serious blow
to efforts to seize the unreported cash, ruling in a
precedent-setting case that such seizures often
violate constitutional protections against "excessive
fines."

The new proposal is aimed at correcting the
loopholes opened up in the June court decision. It
would for the first time allow law enforcement
officials to arrest people concealing currency before
they even reach the border.

It would allow the seizure of $10,000 or more at the
nation's ports and highways -- hundreds of miles
from any crossing -- if agents can prove that there is
intent to smuggle the concealed money out of the
country.

But it goes beyond that, giving agencies tools they
have not had in the fight to stop the flow of illegal
drug profits out of the country, said Stefan D.
Cassella, the assistant chief of the money-laundering
and forfeiture section of the U.S. Department of
Justice.

"This is a major step forward to address a new
problem," Cassella said. "We know that the covert
movement of currency across borders is indicative
and inherently related to criminal activity."

Civil libertarians condemned the proposed law,
which the Justice Department sent to Congress on
Monday, because they said it would expand the
ability of law enforcement agencies to seize currency
and keep it.

A series published in The Record this year revealed
how New Jersey, with its sprawling seaport,
international airport, lax laws, and proximity to New
York and Philadelphia, had emerged as a hub for
money laundering and currency smuggling over the
past 15 years. Cassella said the decision to push for
the more stringent laws was inspired in part by The
Record's stories.

In its letter to Congress, the Justice Department
cited the series as evidence of the growing problem
in currency smuggling.

The proposed law would give officials the ability to
go after a wider range of smuggling that has been
difficult for them to stop. Every year, for instance,
billions of dollars in illegal drug profits is smuggled
across the border unchecked, crammed into washing
machines, refrigerators, or hidden under false
bottoms in suitcases and trucks bound for the
border.

Over the past nine months, customs inspectors have
seized more than $11 million at the border that
stretches from Texas to California.

And at Port Newark, Customs agents seized $5.5
million in fiscal year 1997, the fourth-highest amount
seized among all U.S. ports.

Cassella said the Justice Department hopes its
proposal will be offered as an amendment to
money-laundering legislation being considered by the
House. But several congressional staffers were
skeptical that the proposal would be considered by
this Congress, because of the controversy over civil
forfeiture. Congress is slated to adjourn is less than a
month.

In addition, the new regulations, if passed, would
likely face immediate legal challenges.

In June, the U.S. Supreme Court overturned the
seizure of $357,144 from a Hollywood, Calif., gas
station owner. Federal officials seized Hosep Krikor
Bajakajian's money after the Syrian immigrant tried
to carry it out of the country without reporting it --
even though he was told of the federal reporting
requirements by customs agents. A divided court
ruled the fine was excessive because the only impact
of Bajakajian's crime was to deprive the government
of "information on a piece of paper."

By creating a category of crime called "bulk cash
smuggling," law enforcement officials hope to
convince the Supreme Court that efforts to evade
detection could have a direct impact on the "security
and integrity" of the nation's borders, Cassella said.
The crime would be punishable by up to five years in
prison and forfeiture of the money involved.

"Bulk cash smuggling is an inherently more serious
offense than simply failing to file a customs report,"
Justice Department officials wrote in an explanation
of the bill provided to Congress. "Because the
constitutionality of forfeiture is dependent on the
'gravity of the offense' . . . it is anticipated that the full
forfeiture of smuggled money will withstand
constitutional scrutiny in most cases."

Local prosecutors hailed the proposed change.

"Clearly, it's an effort to convince the Supreme
Court that Congress did view this as more than a
mere reporting violation and that forfeiture of the
smuggled money is appropriate," said Marion
Percell, an assistant U.S. Attorney in Newark who
specializes in money-laundering cases.

Critics attacked the bill, calling it just another effort
by overzealous law enforcement officials to expand
seizure powers that deprive citizens of due process.

Roger Pilon, director of the Center for Constitutional
Studies at the Cato Institute, warned that civil asset
forfeiture is subject to abuse by law enforcement
authorities.

"This is unbelievable," he said. "Everything that
Justice does in this area is characterized as a 'major
step.' But that's no justification. Since when is it a
crime to take money out of the country? After all,
whose money is it?"

Rachel King, legislative counsel of the American
Civil Liberties Union, agreed. "The problem is they
have too much power to seize property," she said.
"The laws need to go the other way. What they can
do already is scary."

Staff Writers Julie Fields and Thomas Zambito
contributed to this article.

Copyright (c) 1998 Bergen Record Corp.
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




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with the message:
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--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 02:22:02 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: RE: Cyberpunks Signal-to-Noise Ratio
Message-ID: <199809190724.JAA20244@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Isn't it in bad form to filter the Cypherpunk anonymous remailers on
the cypherpunk list?



---Matthew James Gering  wrote:
>
> What! I can't hear you!
> 
> You could always filter *aol*, *anon* and *sixdegrees*.
> 
> Or shout louder (i.e. contribute signal).
> 
> 	Matt




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 11:23:17 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Oh my God...
In-Reply-To: <002d01bde375$d5f31b80$7c7ecfc0@stewart.smallworks.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




(cypherpunks@toad.com replaced with cypherpunks@algebra.com)

At 7:33 PM -0700 9/18/98, Jim Thompson wrote:
>Forgive me if this has been covered on cypherpunks.  I hang out on
>coderpunks,
>and this is far too political for that list.  Please keep me Cc'd on any
>discussion
>on this topic.

Thank you for slumming on our list.

And thank you for reminding me to keep my lowly political stuff off of the
"good" lists....I needed that reminder to keep my filth here on
"cypherpunks."

BTW, "toad.com" is not one of the distributed lists. I guess you've been so
busy "writing code" that you are still ignorant of this transition.


>If true, RSA is dirty, SDI is dirty, Robertson Stevens is dirty, and Ron
>Brown,
>Jim Bizdos, Al Gore, John Huang and Sanford Robertson are going to jail.
>
>http://www.worldnetdaily.com/smith/980915.comcs.html

Well, if Ron Brown is put in jail they'll have to dig up the casket
containing the couple of pounds of what they found of him when his plane
hit that hillside near Sarajevo a couple of years ago.

You'd have known this, and the rest of that well-reported story cited
above, had you gotten off your "don't pollute the coderpunks" high horse
and actually read some political stuff.

Oh, and what code have you written lately?

--Tim May

(This space left blank pending determ. of acceptability to the gov't.)
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Stu Green 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 09:32:39 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com
Subject: Re: IP: Tougher laws are sought to seize cash (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199809191445.JAA08476@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <3603C242.7D937C61@realtime.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim, Et al,
Recently I heard the retelling of a 'verbal memo' given contracted security
folks at Miami International Airport concerning spotting people with
'excessive cash'.  Besides the racist profiles and the cues of buying a
ticket with cash, destinations were high on the list and Las Vegas was the
most often mentioned destination for a 'good collar' (ie. cash
confiscation).  The feds are offering a reward of a percentage of what is
confiscated to the informants, in this case ticket sellers, baggage handlers
and local security providers (contractor and local police).  Seems that
bring more than 4 -5 K worth of green to gamble with is an excuse for
confiscation with no charges ever being made.  The operative mode here is an
assumption that they'll snag some wise guys and they won't freak and try to
regain their bucks....bad assumption and bad intentions.  This is the kind
of citizen vs. citizen activity that the East Germans and their Nazi mentors
were master in establishing and effecting.  The best way to destroy trust is
to a profit incentive to poke your face into your neighbor's garbage can and
report the droppings to the collectors of irrelavant information at the
ministry of injustice.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Soren 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 08:42:48 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: [Fwd: IP: Tougher laws are sought to seize cash]
Message-ID: <3603B645.8C3992F5@workmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




To: Robert Hettinga 
Subject: Re: IP: Tougher laws are sought to seize cash
From: Soren 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 09:47:56 -0400
References: 



Robert Hettinga wrote:

> ... Hailed as a "major step forward" in the fight against
> money laundering, the Justice Department proposal
> would broaden the government's ability to seize the
> profits of such illicit activity as drug dealing.
>

They forgot to mention the biggest money laundering operation, in Washington
D.C.,





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: pjm@spe.com
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 05:16:37 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: atheism (was: RE: Democracy... (fwd))
In-Reply-To: <199809171915.OAA15655@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <6485-Sat19Sep1998112432+0200-pjm@spe.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate writes:
[ . . . ]
 > A personal philosophy is a religion, different words but same idea. If your
 > thesis is that for something to be a religion it requires some sort of
 > social approval you miss the whole point. Even Jesus recognized that a
 > persons religion didn't rely on a 'church' and the implied infrastructure.
 > This is the reason he told his listeners to pray in a closet alone.

     Not all philosophies are religions.  Asserting so is an attempt
to make one or both of the terms meaningless.

 > > There is no reason to think that a god does exist, so why would one even
 > > need to think about or believe in the negative.
 > 
 > There is no reason to believe one doesn't either. If we take your claim at
[ . . . ]

     There are two forms of atheism (visit alt.atheism.moderated for
an unending discussion).  "Strong" atheists state that they "believe
that god does not exist."  "Weak" atheists state that they "do not
believe that god exists."  The first is a faith based positive
assertion, analogous to "god exists".  The second makes no assertion
and hence has no associated burden of proof.  Given the lack of
evidence for the existence of a god, it is the default, logical
position.

     Do you believe in leprechauns, because there is no proof that
they don't exist?  Do you believe in the Hindu pantheon?

[ . . . ]
 > Ah, another of your mistakes. Religion and by extension faith are not
 > constrained by reason or logic. It's this realisation that puts some
 > issues and aspect of human inquiry outside of the reach of science, logic,
 > etc.

     Without reason and logic, how do you propose to prove these
assertions?  Reason and logic don't "constrain", they provide a
framework for discovery.  This framework is unavailable to, and indeed
actively rejected by, believers in the supernatural.  Any meaningful
definition of the word "inquiry" presupposes the use of logic.

 > No, only some religions are irrational. The point you're missing is not
 > one of rationality or irrationality but rather transcendance.

     All faith-based assertions are by definition irrational.  Mystics
frequently speak of transcendence as if the word denotes a concept
with a particular meaning, but never provide a coherent definition.
Perhaps you'll surprise me?

Regards,

pjm




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Thompson, Christopher W NWS" 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 13:53:48 +0800
To: "'cypherpunks@toad.com>
Subject: A question from Seattle
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



hey,  I'm a 28 year old living in Seattle and I've been having quite the
fantasy of watching and or participating in father/son activities...or big
brother and little brother interaction.  Do you have any suggestions
where/who I might contact in the Seattle metro area?

Thanks




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 06:13:33 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: CHALLENGE? Toto/signature attack w. unpublished public key
Message-ID: <199809191052.LAA19676@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




This post discusses the possibility of generating a RSA public key n,
and e given a signature s on a message m creating using an unknown
(unpublished) n and e.  A message and signature whose validity has
some bearing on a current IRS investigation is given as a target for
an attack if such an attack is feasible.

Toto published one signed message [1] but not a public key for the
signature.  It seems to me that there should be other public keys
which one could generate which could have signed the same message.

I would like comments on the feasibility of the signature attack
proposed below, and suggestions for more efficient methods.

(For those not following the Toto saga, he was the author of a series
of anti-government rants and future fiction stories on cypherpunks.
The posting of [1] to the list seems to have been deemed a handy
excuse for the IRS to arrange Carl Johnson's incarceration See:
http://jya.com/cejfiles.htm.  They claim that the presence of a public
key on Carl Johnson's hard disk proves that he authored the post in
question [1].)

What we have is:

Unknowns: e, n, d
Knowns: m, s

Where m = padding || md5( message )

A signature is computed as:

	s = m ^ d mod n

and verified by checking that:

	s ^ e mod n = m

( where RSA says: n = p.q, d.e = 1 mod (p-1).(q-1) )

We are trying to find an n and an e which satisfy s ^ e mod n = m,
with the additional constraints that log2( n ) = 1024 and n > s
(because we have the signature s, and it is 1024 bits in length).

For bonus points it would be nice for n mod 2^64 = 0xCE56A4072541C535,
which is the key-id in the signature.  (I say bonus points because the
key-id in the signature is not authenticated, or included in the
message digest, so could have been for example edited after the
signature was made, or filled with random numbers for whatever
reason).

Tinkering with PGP I can extract the values for the knowns:

s =   0x08F4D5CBC10063725B206F787EB7370BBD0C5B4854CE79A9007D1801AEAEE6E6
	D2C68D7EDF877FECE1FA539D08BEC54BD152BA05113951E8A84CDECAD2CB8E7A
	C28BE916570BA7BB9C00C64DF57113C4AE81613BD351541523CD3A028FBF220E
	F7469BD4175302DCB5B6E886974877F28A2D301433AFFFE26081008BFF687B37

m =   0x0001FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
	FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
	FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF003020
	300C06082A864886F70D0205050004105A82A30F832DC6839C20DD6DB2EF783B

(the 00 01 FF .. FF 00 are the PKCS#7 required padding, then the
3020300c06082a864886f70d020505000410 is the ASN padding indicating
various PKCS #7 cruft, and 5A82A30F832DC6839C20DD6DB2EF783B is the
digest of the message (which includes some of the info in the
signature block: timestamp, signature type, etc))

So next we would like to solve:

	s ^ e mod n = m

or in other words find e, k and n st:

	s ^ e - m = k * n

I have been trying to factor f3 = s ^ e - m for e = 3, and can get
factors:

f = 2 2 5 11 17 26496937

and

251048771208077840279253039518619486761149393656018551881762776705901\
323868599665917317036581098944533770815064901485649759588104677561495\
719846643046535204246014520276297740544890135011586884286882393788265\
716989378535974685125268132766806309723740928058713253950594405611241\
121342427851929130344133177905256374336176401503386547907484013668011\
870701681839150463738400849274433891413410494500220449307074230633487\
686485522732190007426023068542565670710414256907678005650439818373128\
045462081252984434043133357326332595300178784873354995536385391488171\
082297914170316457453668703759313538562865586078736676571820284813613\
435988240345557012477625002576044754861439307189875911957770722297269\
127365840009630893296289725097984631185778357339553526670628683341222\
179800672224971064029655723085468566526546006022122686584662976524189\
679277675211381453870834486124773894995875790430641434242560016378644\
4039359130261

(I call the f resulting from choosing e = 3, f3, other e values can be
denoted f5, f7, etc).

It seems to me that if we can get get a factor out (or construct a
composite from factors) which is greater than s, and is 1024 bits
long, then this "key" could have signed the message in question.

If the number has 2 or more factors, which we know because we
constructed it by multiplying them, then we could even "sign" another
message with this key, by generating a d based on the p, q (and
possibly other multiples) and have both messages appear to be signed
by the same key.

If we can get some larger factors, we stand a chance because we have
the flexibility of being able to adjust a potentional n's size by
multiplying by combinations of factors found so far 5 11 17 26496937.
This means we can adjust n's size by adding bits by multiplying by
combinations as follows

combination		bits added

5			2 - 3
11			3 - 4
17			4
5 11			5 - 6
5 17			6 - 7
11 17			7 - 8
26496937		24 - 25

So the challenge is to find other factors of:

f =	251048771208077840279253039518619486761149393656018551881762776705901\
	323868599665917317036581098944533770815064901485649759588104677561495\
	719846643046535204246014520276297740544890135011586884286882393788265\
	716989378535974685125268132766806309723740928058713253950594405611241\
	121342427851929130344133177905256374336176401503386547907484013668011\
	870701681839150463738400849274433891413410494500220449307074230633487\
	686485522732190007426023068542565670710414256907678005650439818373128\
	045462081252984434043133357326332595300178784873354995536385391488171\
	082297914170316457453668703759313538562865586078736676571820284813613\
	435988240345557012477625002576044754861439307189875911957770722297269\
	127365840009630893296289725097984631185778357339553526670628683341222\
	179800672224971064029655723085468566526546006022122686584662976524189\
	679277675211381453870834486124773894995875790430641434242560016378644\
	4039359130261

One could also try other values for e, although they result in larger
f.  

What is the best factoring code available to have a go at factoring
the above?  (I have been usign the demo pollard-rho factoring code
which comes with ssh-1.2.26 in the gmp-2.0.2-ssh-2/demos directory).
Anyone interested to give this a go, who has say got a few (hundred?)
workstations already setup for another factoring challenge which they
could divert to attack the above f3 (or f5, f7, etc).

Course, if Toto is still at large, and Carl Johnson is not the only
one with the key (and some messages on cypherpunks recently lend
credence to this), he might trash this challenge by posting another
signed message, or weaken it's value by posting a public key which
proved could be shown to have been derived by this method.
(Interestingly, I think merely posting a public key claiming to be the
`real key' which we couldn't factor nor show to be a factor of f
wouldn't prove that that key was any more legitimate than a key
generated by a success on this challenge, all it would tend to show
would be that the person who posted it had more compute power
available than us!)

Adam

[1]
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----



"Contrary to one famous philosopher,
you're saying the medium is not the
message," Judge Thomas Nelson said,
alluding to the media theorist Marshall
McLuhan. 
http://www.nytimes.com/library/cyber/week/120997encrypt-bernstein.html

  Bullshit!
  The bits and bytes of email encryption are a clear message
that I wish to exercise my right to speak freely, without those
who wish to do me harm invading my privacy.
  The death of strong encryption on the InterNet will be the
global death of free speech on the InterNet. Accordingly, I 
feel it is necessary to make a stand and declare that I stand
ready and willing to fight to the death against anyone who
takes it upon themselves to try to imprison me behind an
ElectroMagnetic Curtain.

  This includes the Ninth Distric Court judges, if they come to
the conclusion that the government that they represent needs to
electronically imprison their citizens 'for their own safety.'


The problem: Criminals with a simple
encryption program can scramble their data
beyond even the government's ability to read it. 
http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/content/zdnn/1208/261695.html

  Fuck the lame LEA pricks who whine about not being able to
stop someone bringing in a planeload of drugs without being
able to invade the privacy of every person on the face of
the earth.
  Am I supposed to believe that I have knowledge of when and
where major drug shipments are taking place, simply by virtue
of hanging out as a musician, yet the LEA's are incapable of
finding out the same information by being competent in their
profession? Barf City...
 [I will shortly provide information for any LEA which wishes
  to prosecute me for my coming 'physical' death threat, on
  how to hunt me down like the filthy dog that I am.]

"Why are you saying that the fact that [encryption]
is functional takes it out of the First Amendment
context?" Myron Bright, one of the judges, asked
the Justice Department attorney, who was still in
mid-sentence. He answered that the regulations
were not aimed at suppressing speech, but only at
the physical capacity of encryption to thwart
government intelligence gathering. 

  The Spanish language has the same "physical capacity." So 
does (:>), (;[), and {;-|). Likewise, BTW, FWIW, FYI, and
my own personal favorite, YMMV (You Make Me Vomit? --or--
Your Mileage May Vary?). <-- Ambidextrous encryption.
  An-cay e-way pect-exay ig-pay atin-lay usts-bay of 
ildren-chay?
  Whispering also has the "physical capacity" to "thwart 
government intelligence gathering."

  When does the bullshit stop? When do we stop making the
use of the Spanish language over the InterNet illegal?
When do we stop making whispering, pig-latin, anagrams
and acronyms illegal?
  When do we stop saying that our government is such a
piece of crap that it is a danger to let its citizens
communicate freely, in private, and share their private
thoughts with one another?


At one point Fletcher called the government's case 
"puzzling."
http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,17114,00.html

  Only because her mom taught her that it was unladylike to
say "Bullshit!"


In arguments Monday, a Justice Department
lawyer, Scott McIntosh, said the government's
intent was to preserve the ability of intelligence
agencies to eavesdrop on foreign governments
and citizens. 
http://www.nytimes.com/library/cyber/week/120997encrypt-bernstein.html

  Let's see if I have this right...
  The U.S. government needs to destroy the right to free speech 
and right to privacy of its own citizens in order to infringe
upon the human rights of the governments and citizens of other
countries? Countries which already have strong encryption?
Countries like Red China, which is currently engaged in 
encryption research with an American company who got permission
to export much more diverse encryption material (after making
a huge campaign donation to the Whitehouse) than Professor
Bernstein will ever likely share with others?
  Apologies to Judge Fletcher, but that's not "puzzling." That's
the same-old-same-old Bullshit!


OFFICIAL 'PHYSICAL' DEATH THREAT!!!
  The pen is mightier than the sword. Thus, I prefer to wage my
'war to the death' against those who would stomp on my basic
human rights *"in the interests of National Security"* with my
electronic pen, on the InterNet, using encryption when I have
reason to fear persecution by Facist, Nazi motherfuckers.
[* ~~ TruthMonger Vernacular Translation ~~ "so that the 
 government can maintain its authority over the citizens
 by use of force and violation of human rights, rather than
 going to all of the trouble of acting in a manner that will
 garner the citizens' respect."]

  I will continue to express my thoughts through the words
I send electronically over the InterNet, both publically
and privately. I will fight to the bandwidth death against
anyone who wants to deny me my right to express my opinions
and access the opinions of those who also wish to express
their own opinions and share their true thoughts with their
fellow humans.
  If the ElectronicMagnetic Curtain slams down around me, 
then I will have no choice but to continue my current fight
in MeatSpace.
  And I am not alone...

  I will share the same 'DEATH THREAT!!!' with Judges Fletcher,
Nelson and Bright that I have shared with the President and
a host of Congressional and Senatorial representatives:
  "You can fuck some of the people all of the time, and all of
the people some of the time, but you are going to end up in a
body bag or a pine box before you manage to fuck all of the
people all of the time."

  Am *I* going to whack you out? Maybe...
  I would prefer just dumping some tea in Boston Harbor, if that
will get my message across in MeatSpace, but if it won't, then
I guess I will have to take stronger action.
  There are undoubtedly a plethora of LEA's ready and willing to
prosecute and imprison me for agreeing with Patrick Henry, who
said, "Give me liberty, or give me death." The irony, of course,
is that I do not pose a great danger to anyone but myself as
long as I continue to have my human rights and my liberty
unthreatened.

  The chances of me actually getting off of my fat butt and
going out into the real world to whack out the enemies of
freedom are probably pretty small (unless I run out of 
cigarettes and beer, and wouldn't have to make an extra 
trip).
  I fully understand that this does not lessen the potential
of any LEA who gets a wild hair up their butt to throw a
mountain of taxpayer resources into prosecuting me and 
imprisoning me for their own professional/political gain.
  However, if you are performing actions so outrageously against
basic human rights and freedoms as to get me off of my lazy ass,
then I am the least of your problems, because there undoubtedly
are millions of people more functional than myself (who get out
of the house and go further than the liquor store) who are less
willing than myself to put up with increasingly heavy chains
placed around their hands and feet 'in the interests of national
security.'

  Feel free to have the Federales break down my door and
imprison me for pointing out the obvious. After all, I fit
the profile of a domestic terrorist--I quote the Constitution 
and the Bill of Rights, and I speak out against increasingly
big government.
  But remember...it's the quiet ones you've got to watch...
If you force everyone to 'be quiet', then you've got a world
of trouble on your hands.

Sincerly,
John Gilmore 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
p.s.
NOTICE TO LEA AGENTS IN NEED OF A CAREER BOOST!
  Yes, I'm just a troublemaking asshole, trying to get John
 Gilmore  in trouble.
  However, if you want to go to the trouble of tracking me 
down, I will give you some hints, since it seems likely that
anyone who has trouble finding a ton of cocaine at an 
airport might not be competent in CyberSpace, either.
  You might want to check with the Webmasters at the sites
quoted above to see who has accessed their web sites this
morning. The anonymous remailer I will be using is an open
secret to CypherPunks around the world as a really bad 
attempt at disguising my true MeatSpace identity. This alone
ought to be enough for some aggressive young LEA and/or
federal prosecutor to earn themself some brownie-points,
since I am a sorry enough son-of-a-bitch that they would not
have much trouble convicting me in front of a jury of 'their'
peers, assuming that they can make certain that I am not 
tried by a jury of my own peers.

Bonus Points:
  I can also be tied into Jim Bell's Worldwide Conspiracy to 
assassinate government authorities, through my implementation
of an Assassination Bot.
 (I am willing to 'rat out' Jim for two bottles of Scotch. If
 he is willing to rat _me_ out for less, then I guess it's
 just my hard luck, eh? <--that's another hint!)

p.p.s.
  You can also charge me with use of 'conventional' encryption
in the commission of a crime.
  Must be your lucky fucking day, eh?

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.2

iQCVAwUBNI24Hs5WpAclQcU1AQFaggP8CPTVy8EAY3JbIG94frc3C70MW0hUznmp
fRgBrq7m5tLGjX7fh3/s4fpTnQi+xUvRUroFETlR6KhM3srSy456wovpFlcLp7uc
xk31cRPEroFhO9NRVBUjzToCj78iDvdGm9QXUwLctbbohpdId/KKLTAUM6//4mCB
i/9oezfegWc=
=4/6E
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 14:27:23 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Pentagon may modify websites
Message-ID: <199809191929.MAA03045@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: Richard Sampson 
Subject: IP: Pentagon may modify websites
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 23:08:02 -0400
To: "ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com" 

Pentagon may modify websites
WASHINGTON, Sept. 16 (UPI) _ The Pentagon is reviewing its Internet
policies to determine if there is too much information on its public
access websites.

The Defense Department and the four armed services operate several
Internet websites. Internet users including newspaper reporters, high
school students working on term papers and military history buffs visit
them frequently to download photos, news releases, and other
information.

But Defense Department spokesman Kenneth Bacon said today that top
Pentagon officials have become concerned that the information contained
on those websites could be used by terrorists and others for illegal
purposes.

Bacon did not say what information officials are specifically concerned
about or what caused them to begin reviewing the content of the
department's websites. He did say, however, that no information
contained on websites to date has been put to use by terrorists.

''This is more in the area of heading off a problem rather than
reacting to one,'' he said.

No date has been set for the website review to be completed. _-

Copyright 1998 by United Press International.

All rights reserved. _-
By MIKE BILLINTON


News provided by COMTEX.
[!BUSINESS] [!GOVERNMENT] [!WALL+STREET] [!WORLD+AFFAIRS] [HIGH+SCHOOL]
[INTERNET] [MILITARY] [NEWS] [NEWSGRID] [UPI] [WASHINGTON]


--
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a
prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------





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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 14:27:44 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Tougher laws are sought to seize cash
Message-ID: <199809191929.MAA03056@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Tougher laws are sought to seize cash
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 08:45:24 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  Bergen (New Jersey) Record
http://www.bergen.com/news/njmone199809154.htm

Tougher laws are sought to seize cash 

Tuesday, September 15, 1998

By ADAM PIORE
Washington Correspondent

WASHINGTON -- Federal law enforcement
officials on Monday unveiled a plan they say will
help stop the flow of billions of dollars in drug money
across the nation's borders every year.

Hailed as a "major step forward" in the fight against
money laundering, the Justice Department proposal
would broaden the government's ability to seize the
profits of such illicit activity as drug dealing.

It now is illegal to try to leave the country with more
than $10,000 in currency without reporting it to U.S.
Customs officials. Violations are punishable by up to
five years in prison and seizure of the money. But in
June, the U.S. Supreme Court dealt a serious blow
to efforts to seize the unreported cash, ruling in a
precedent-setting case that such seizures often
violate constitutional protections against "excessive
fines."

The new proposal is aimed at correcting the
loopholes opened up in the June court decision. It
would for the first time allow law enforcement
officials to arrest people concealing currency before
they even reach the border.

It would allow the seizure of $10,000 or more at the
nation's ports and highways -- hundreds of miles
from any crossing -- if agents can prove that there is
intent to smuggle the concealed money out of the
country. 

But it goes beyond that, giving agencies tools they
have not had in the fight to stop the flow of illegal
drug profits out of the country, said Stefan D.
Cassella, the assistant chief of the money-laundering
and forfeiture section of the U.S. Department of
Justice.

"This is a major step forward to address a new
problem," Cassella said. "We know that the covert
movement of currency across borders is indicative
and inherently related to criminal activity."

Civil libertarians condemned the proposed law,
which the Justice Department sent to Congress on
Monday, because they said it would expand the
ability of law enforcement agencies to seize currency
and keep it.

A series published in The Record this year revealed
how New Jersey, with its sprawling seaport,
international airport, lax laws, and proximity to New
York and Philadelphia, had emerged as a hub for
money laundering and currency smuggling over the
past 15 years. Cassella said the decision to push for
the more stringent laws was inspired in part by The
Record's stories.

In its letter to Congress, the Justice Department
cited the series as evidence of the growing problem
in currency smuggling.

The proposed law would give officials the ability to
go after a wider range of smuggling that has been
difficult for them to stop. Every year, for instance,
billions of dollars in illegal drug profits is smuggled
across the border unchecked, crammed into washing
machines, refrigerators, or hidden under false
bottoms in suitcases and trucks bound for the
border.

Over the past nine months, customs inspectors have
seized more than $11 million at the border that
stretches from Texas to California.

And at Port Newark, Customs agents seized $5.5
million in fiscal year 1997, the fourth-highest amount
seized among all U.S. ports.

Cassella said the Justice Department hopes its
proposal will be offered as an amendment to
money-laundering legislation being considered by the
House. But several congressional staffers were
skeptical that the proposal would be considered by
this Congress, because of the controversy over civil
forfeiture. Congress is slated to adjourn is less than a
month.

In addition, the new regulations, if passed, would
likely face immediate legal challenges.

In June, the U.S. Supreme Court overturned the
seizure of $357,144 from a Hollywood, Calif., gas
station owner. Federal officials seized Hosep Krikor
Bajakajian's money after the Syrian immigrant tried
to carry it out of the country without reporting it --
even though he was told of the federal reporting
requirements by customs agents. A divided court
ruled the fine was excessive because the only impact
of Bajakajian's crime was to deprive the government
of "information on a piece of paper."

By creating a category of crime called "bulk cash
smuggling," law enforcement officials hope to
convince the Supreme Court that efforts to evade
detection could have a direct impact on the "security
and integrity" of the nation's borders, Cassella said.
The crime would be punishable by up to five years in
prison and forfeiture of the money involved.

"Bulk cash smuggling is an inherently more serious
offense than simply failing to file a customs report,"
Justice Department officials wrote in an explanation
of the bill provided to Congress. "Because the
constitutionality of forfeiture is dependent on the
'gravity of the offense' . . . it is anticipated that the full
forfeiture of smuggled money will withstand
constitutional scrutiny in most cases."

Local prosecutors hailed the proposed change.

"Clearly, it's an effort to convince the Supreme
Court that Congress did view this as more than a
mere reporting violation and that forfeiture of the
smuggled money is appropriate," said Marion
Percell, an assistant U.S. Attorney in Newark who
specializes in money-laundering cases.

Critics attacked the bill, calling it just another effort
by overzealous law enforcement officials to expand
seizure powers that deprive citizens of due process.

Roger Pilon, director of the Center for Constitutional
Studies at the Cato Institute, warned that civil asset
forfeiture is subject to abuse by law enforcement
authorities.

"This is unbelievable," he said. "Everything that
Justice does in this area is characterized as a 'major
step.' But that's no justification. Since when is it a
crime to take money out of the country? After all,
whose money is it?"

Rachel King, legislative counsel of the American
Civil Liberties Union, agreed. "The problem is they
have too much power to seize property," she said.
"The laws need to go the other way. What they can
do already is scary."

Staff Writers Julie Fields and Thomas Zambito
contributed to this article.

Copyright (c) 1998 Bergen Record Corp.
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 14:27:26 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Tracking: DNA database in Okla.
Message-ID: <199809191929.MAA03067@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Tracking: DNA database in Okla.
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 08:54:13 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  Tulsa World
http://www.tulsaworld.com/News.htm

DNA database helps make case 
 By World's own Service 
 9/16/98

 OKLAHOMA CITY -- A 1994 law
 creating a DNA database for Oklahoma law
 enforcement contributed to Monday's
 conviction in an Oklahoma City mass murder
 case, an author of the law said Tuesday.

 Danny Keith Hooks was found guilty
 Monday of the May 16, 1992, murders of
 five women in Oklahoma City. Jurors must
 now decide whether to sentence him to
 death.

 Hooks was first identified through genetic
 evidence collected at the crime scene. The
 arrest and conviction marked one of the first
 major cases involving the Oklahoma State
 Bureau of Investigation's DNA database and
 lab since it became operational in 1994, said
 Rep. James Dunegan, D-Calera.

 Under the law, blood samples are collected
 from certain convicts, and OSBI technicians
 analyze and type the genetic markers. That
 information is then stored in a database. The
 law also enlarged the bureau's DNA
 laboratory, Dunegan said.

 The Oklahoma City mass killing had
 remained unsolved for five years. Oklahoma
 City police records showed that until Hooks
 was arrested last year, more than 700
 reports had been written on the case, 8,000
 people had been fingerprinted and more than
 400 blood samples had been analyzed in the
 case.

 The Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigations
 ran unidentified DNA from blood at the
 crime scene through several states' databases
 of criminals' genetic profiles, said Kym Koch,
 a spokeswoman for the OSBI. 

 While at an out-of-state national conference
 of DNA criminalists in 1996, the head of the
 OSBI's DNA lab asked experts from
 California to analyze the unknown DNA,
 Koch said. It matched Hooks' genetic
 profile, proving he had been at the crime
 scene. Prosecutors said Hooks must have
 been cut while he was killing his victims.

 Hooks had served time in a California prison
 on a rape conviction. Law enforcers were
 able to trace the DNA samples found at the
 murder scene to Hooks because he had to
 submit a DNA sample to California
 corrections officials before his release there.

 Hooks was convicted of killing the women
 during a sexual attack. He was arrested last
 year in California.

 Koch said roughly half of the states have their
 own DNA databases.

            Copyright 1996, World Publishing Co. All rights reserved.
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 14:27:29 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: School bans `no rules' T-shirt
Message-ID: <199809191929.MAA03078@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: School bans `no rules' T-shirt
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 09:25:30 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  St. Paul, Minnesota Pioneer Planet News
http://www.pioneerplanet.com/news/wis_docs/010832.htm

Published: Thursday, September 17, 1998 

School bans `no rules' T-shirt

ASSOCIATED PRESS 

 WAUKESHA, WIS.

A fifth grader was ordered to turn his T-shirt inside-out because it
carried the message ``No Rules,'' which the principal said promoted
disruptive behavior.

But the youth's mother said Saratoga Elementary School principal Dale
Heinen overstepped his bounds and that there was no harm in wearing such
shirts, which depict cartoon characters and carry the slogan, ``Outta my
way. No Rules.''

Heinen made Cody Wilhelm wear the shirt inside-out so no one could read its
message.

``School guidelines talk about things that are disruptive and can lead to
disruption,'' Heinen said. ``If they are portraying that in what they wear
. . . we don't want kids reflecting that attitude or promoting that type of
attitude.''

Mary Wilhelm said her son's T-shirt was not disruptive and that parents
should have the right to dress their children with any clothes they want to
as long as they do not promote sex, drugs, alcohol, tobacco or illegal
activities. 

She said her son went to school last year wearing one of the ``No Rules''
T-shirts and also wore a T-shirt depicting ``Joe Camel,'' a cartoon
character formerly used to promote Camel cigarettes. School officials did
not object, she said.

``He should have never worn that Joe Camel shirt, I agree, but that dealt
with smoking,'' Wilhelm said.

``This is different. I don't want to have the principal tell me what I can
and can't do with my kid.''

(c)1998 PioneerPlanet / St. Paul (Minnesota) Pioneer Press - All Rights
Reserved 
copyright information
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 14:28:03 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Huge Philly Terrorist Drill Yesterday
Message-ID: <199809191929.MAA03089@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Huge Philly Terrorist Drill Yesterday
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 09:32:52 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  Chicago Tribune
http://chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/article/0,1051,SAV-9809170173,00.
html

HUGE SIMULATED TERRORIST ATTACK AIMED AT PUTTING CITY ON GUARD

 From Tribune News Services
 September 17, 1998 

 PHILADELPHIA, PENNSYLVANIA --
 The Army on Wednesday gave
 Philadelphia's law-enforcement and rescue
 crews a daylong taste of what it might be
 like if terrorists unleashed deadly Sarin
 nerve gas during a civic luncheon for 1,500
 people.

 Sirens shattered the calm of Philadelphia's
 Fairmount Park as hundreds of police,
 firefighters and federal troops rushed to the
 aid of city workers acting out their parts as
 victims of the attack.

 "You can't predict an Oklahoma City. You
 can't predict what happened in Tokyo. And
 you can't predict what happened in New
 York," Army Col. Richard Breen shouted
 over the roar of fire engines. "It's better to
 be proactive and train people so that a city
 like Philadelphia can take . . . care of its
 citizens if, God forbid, something like this
 really were to occur."

 The drill was part of a Defense Department
 program to train cities to cope with
 chemical, biological and nuclear terrorism.
 The exercise, the biggest yet to be staged
 by the Army Chemical and Biological
 Defense Command, involved beat officers,
 bomb-disposal experts, hazardous-material
 teams, firefighters, ambulance crews,
 National Guardsmen, federal emergency
 managers, FBI agents, the Coast Guard and
 the American Red Cross.

 Organizers refused to say how many people
 took part. "We would not want to
 broadcast . . . just what our personnel and
 equipment strengths would be to meet this
 type of emergency," a city official said.

 Later this month in a similar exercise, the
 Army plans to simulate another Sarin attack
 on a music concert at RFK Stadium in
 Washington.
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




**********************************************
To subscribe or unsubscribe, email:
     majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com
with the message:
     (un)subscribe ignition-point email@address
**********************************************
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**********************************************




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 14:28:12 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: ID proposal raises privacy concerns
Message-ID: <199809191929.MAA03100@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: ID proposal raises privacy concerns
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 17:30:47 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  Fox News - AP

ID proposal raises privacy concerns
 2.15 p.m. ET (1816 GMT) September 17, 1998

 WASHINGTON (AP) - Lawmakers raised loss-of-privacy objections Thursday to
a proposal that would use Social Security numbers to help curb the number
of illegal immigrants who unlawfully get government benefits. 

 The proposal by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration would
require federal agencies to accept, as proof of identity, a driver's
license that conforms to certain standards. A Social Security number would
be among the requirements. 

 Rep. David McIntosh, R-Ind., said the measure "appears to create a de
facto national ID card'' for all Americans. 

 "With a Social Security number, anyone can find out almost anything about
an individual on the Internet, including where he or she lives,'' said
McIntosh, who chairs the House Government Reform and Oversight's
subcommittee on national economic growth. "This technology gives stalkers
and abusers easy access to their victims.'' 

 During a committee hearing on the proposal, Celene Cross described how
someone fraudulently used her name and Social Security number to obtain
credit cards and rack up more than $17,000 in charges. Cross said she has
spent three years trying to clear her credit history but problems continue
to arise, and "I have just quit applying for credit altogether.'' 

 Marvin Young, another panel witness, told lawmakers how a former roommate
used his Social Security number to assume his identity and open more than
40 charge cards. 

 "I've worked hard and never made a late payment in my life, but this other
guy has just messed up everything for me,'' Young said. 

 In a statement submitted to the committee, the National Highway Traffic
Safety Administration said its proposal is intended to "prevent the use of
state driver's licenses and other identification documents by illegal
immigrants seeking to obtain benefits under federal programs.'' 

                  (c) 1998 Associated Press. All rights reserved.
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




**********************************************
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     majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com
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**********************************************
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**********************************************




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 14:28:04 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Terrorism is Shifting Threat to U.S.
Message-ID: <199809191929.MAA03111@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Terrorism is Shifting Threat to U.S.
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 17:36:29 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  USIA
http://www.usia.gov/current/news/latest/98091706.plt.html?/products/washfile
/newsitem.shtml

17 September 1998 

U.S. OFFICIALS SEE TERRORISM AS A SHIFTING THREAT TO
NATION 

(State Department, congressional experts outline views) (700)
By Ralph Dannheisser
USIA Congressional Correspondent

Washington -- A State Department official and a congressman outlined
the changing face of terrorism before a business group, and warned
that it poses increasing concerns for Americans at home and abroad.

Gordon Gray, director for regional affairs in State's counterterrorism
office and Representative Jim Saxton, a New Jersey Republican, were
among the speakers at a briefing for business leaders September 17
sponsored by Equity International, Inc.

Gray told the group that "the good news is the decline in state
terrorism." But, he quickly added, "the bad news is the same thing --
the decline in state terrorism."

That seeming contradiction comes into play, Gray said, because "the
decline in state sponsorship poses new problems, as we see more and
more loosely knit organizations" like that headed by Saudi Arabian
businessman Usama bin Ladin -- groups that by their nature are harder
to get at. Bin Ladin is thought to have been behind the recent bombing
of U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania.

Gray portrayed a mixed picture with respect to terrorist activity.

On the one hand, he said, "last month's bombings at the two U.S.
embassies and in Northern Ireland "painfully reinforce the dangers
posed by terrorists," whose "attacks are becoming far more lethal in
recent years," -- even as the critical infrastructure in our
increasingly sophisticated society "becomes that much more
vulnerable."

But at the same time, Gray observed, "There are some positive signs."
For example, he reported, the total number of terrorist incidents in
1996 and 1997 fell to a 25-year low.

"It's important that we not exaggerate what the actual threat is.
That's exactly what terrorists want to do" to intimidate their foes,
he said.

Gray cited four pillars of U.S. policy with respect to terrorism:

-- a strict refusal to grant concessions to terrorists;
-- a determination to apply the rule of law;
-- steps to help friendly countries increase their capabilities to
combat terrorism, and
-- a continuing effort to put pressure on state sponsors of terrorism
as well as the terrorists themselves.

Would-be terrorists must be convinced that "our memories are long, our
capabilities are strong," he said.

Saxton, chairman of the House Task Force on Terrorism and
Unconventional Warfare, told the audience of business executives there
has been a distinct change in the use of terrorism in the decade of
the 1990s.

The United States demonstrated to foes, most notably in the Gulf War,
that "our conventional capability was rather overwhelming," and so
"the same group of nations with the same long term agenda had to find
different ways to carry out and achieve their objectives," he said.

He named Iran, Iraq, Libya, Sudan, Pakistan and North Korea as
"hotbeds of international terrorist activity."

And, Saxton said, it is "an unfortunate fact of life" that many
terrorist nations "are beginning to avail themselves of technology
that we generally refer to as weapons of mass destruction."

A real threat now exists of attacks on American cities, perhaps using
nuclear devices, he warned. While most Americans outside Washington
have not paid much attention to the threat, it is "something we have
to do for our own survival," he said.

Saxton rejected the notion that bin Ladin is operating independently.
"Bin Ladin is a puppet....He is paid big money to carry out acts of
terrorism by the leaders of Iran, Iraq, Syria, Pakistan, Sudan,
Libya," he declared.

Asked why Pakistan is not on the State Department's list of terrorist
states, he responded, "I can tell you they're on our (the task
force's) list. We believe they're a major sponsoring state. We believe
that they are one of the more dangerous sponsoring states." But the
Department has resisted efforts to classify the country as such, he
noted.

Saxton contended that state sponsors of terrorism are spending more
than $500 million a year on "groups like Hamas and the Islamic Jihad"
-- organizations that he said get their funding from drug traffic,
counterfeiting and "contributions from Islamist fundamentalist groups
around the world" in addition to direct government payments.
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




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     (un)subscribe ignition-point email@address
**********************************************
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**********************************************




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: AIMSX@aol.com
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 12:39:37 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Larry Gilbert, AOLers, and the Hyper-real flamer
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



wow.. you really do think I do all those things - spamming, mailbombing... and
all that other huh?

You really give me way to much credit, as I only use it for internet access,
and access to a UNIX machine




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 13:08:58 +0800
To: cryptography@c2.net
Subject: IP: Going Cashless: Bank ends ECash trial period
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Delivered-To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
X-Sender: believer@telepath.com
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 07:47:55 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com
From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Going Cashless: Bank ends ECash trial period
Mime-Version: 1.0
Sender: ignition-point-request@majordomo.pobox.com
Precedence: first-class

Source:  ComputerWorld
http://www.computerworld.com/home/news.nsf/all/9809174ecash

(Online News, 09/17/98 12:16 PM)

Bank ends electronic cash trial
By Mary Lisbeth D'Amico

 The sole U.S. bank to show interest in online payment via electronic cash
this week abruptly ended its three-year trial of DigiCash, Inc.'s ECash
software.

 Citing a new strategy and market conditions, St. Louis-based Mercantile
Bank this week ended a trial that allowed customers to make purchases over
the Internet with electronic coins, Mercantile spokeswoman Beth Fagen
confirmed.

 The trial used ECash, an electronic cash software program created by Palo
Alto, Calif.-based DigiCash. The bank was the sole U.S. client for
DigiCash, which hopes to have another major U.S. trial in place by year's
end, according to William Donahoo, DigiCash's vice president of business
development.

 The trial brought together 5,000 customers with 300 Internet merchants.
Customers gave the bank their credit-card information only once, then
created electronic "coins" at the bank, allowing them to make small
purchases -- or micropayments -- of goods over the Internet without having
to enter a credit-card number each time. The buyer also remains anonymous
to the merchant because the coins don't identify the customer.

 Mercantile inherited the ECash project when it purchased Mark Twain Bank
in 1997, Fagen said. After reviewing its strategy, the bank decided to call
a halt to the trial after it became apparent that few of the project's
participants were Mercantile's core customers in the six Midwestern states
where it operates, she explained.

 Fagen also cited the changing climate in the U.S. for Internet payments.
When the trial was started in 1995, she said, "people were more fearful of
using credit cards to pay for things over the Internet. Now that seems to
have disappeared."

 Although Mark Twain was the first bank worldwide to try out ECash, its
core business never was quite a match for the product, according to Donahoo.

 "But we are still bullish about our prospects for this market," Donahoo
said, pointing out that automated teller machines took nearly 20 years to
gain favor with consumers. DigiCash will concentrate on finding the right
type of merchants for its U.S.-based projects, he said.

 In Europe, DigiCash has ECash projects in progress at Credit Suisse, the
Bank of Austria and Deutsche Bank.

 Copyright (c) 1998 Computerworld, Inc.
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




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To subscribe or unsubscribe, email:
     majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com
with the message:
     (un)subscribe ignition-point email@address
**********************************************
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**********************************************

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 13:20:00 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Stego-empty hard drives...
In-Reply-To: <199809190501.HAA12423@replay.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 1:01 AM -0400 on 9/19/98, Anonymous wrote:
> (Had this been a UK Customs 'inspection' of the contents of the disk, I
> might have had to explain the half-gig of "noise" I have on the disk.
> Only, it really is noise. Really.)

This makes me think of something that I probably missed in the bowels of
someone's long previous stego posting (um, stego^stego? :-)), how would you
go about either:

Stegoing an encrypted partition as "blank" hard drive space without
actually writing over it unless you wanted to?

or, even,

Stegoing an encrypted partition as not even *there* at all?


Doesn't seem like it would be too hard conceptually (hah!) and, if done,
might actually defeat such Archie-look-up-the-dress as the British
customsfolk are wont to do these days.

Obviously, even if the partition were found, it would look, to sniffer
programs, as if it were empty, right? :-).

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tom Weinstein 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 16:13:07 +0800
To: "Arnold G. Reinhold" 
Subject: Re: Questions for Magaziner?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <36041E82.F4F072ED@netscape.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> Arnold G. Reinhold wrote:
>
> One question I'd like asked is whether the US Gov will approve 56-bit RC-4
> for export on the same terms as 56-bit DES. That would allow export
> versions of web browsers to be upgraded painlessly, making international
> e-commerce 64 thousand times more secure than existing 40-bit browsers.
> (56-bit DES browsers would require every merchant to upgrade their SSL
> servers and introduce a lot of unneeded complexity.)

Actually, it wouldn't be any easier to deploy 56-bit RC4 than DES.  Either
would require roughly the same changes to both clients and servers.

--
What is appropriate for the master is not appropriate| Tom Weinstein
for the novice.  You must understand Tao before      | tomw@netscape.com
transcending structure.  -- The Tao of Programming   |






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 14:14:26 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: TruthMonger key's password! (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809191941.OAA09260@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 19:46:43 +0100
> From: Adam Back 
> Subject: TruthMonger key's password!

Note the magic circle comment as a potential passphrase, he did say
'others'.

> What is going on here?  Is Toto still at large, drunk behind the
> keyboard?  Is Toto not one person?  Or have the IRS extracted Carl
> Johnson's passphrases from him and got busy playing mind-games with
> us?

Or more likely there is one or more persons who have an arrangement.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 08:03:27 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: CHALLENGE? Toto/signature attack w. unpublished pub
Message-ID: <199809191306.PAA04939@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



What remailer is the alleged toto speaking of?


>   You might want to check with the Webmasters at the sites
> quoted above to see who has accessed their web sites this
> morning. The anonymous remailer I will be using is an open
> secret to CypherPunks around the world as a really bad 
> attempt at disguising my true MeatSpace identity. This alone

==
"The same thing we do every night Pinkey,
 try to take over the WORLD!"
                          - The brain
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mixmaster 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 18:00:30 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: A personal response to your email to sixdegrees
Message-ID: <0d7ffbebaef4f88290c8cf8607ef5329@anonymous>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



BW1015  DEC 05,1997       4:06  PACIFIC      07:06  EASTERN


( BW)(PROFILE/MACROVIEW-COMM) Corporate Profile for Macroview Communications
Corp., dated Dec. 5, 1997


    Business Editors

    NEW YORK--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Dec. 5, 1997--The following Corporate Profile is available for inclusion in your files.
News releases for this client are distributed by Business Wire and also become part of the leading databases and online
services, including all of the leading Internet-based services.

                                                                              
Published Date:   December 5, 1997                                            
                                                                              
Company Name:     MacroView Communications Corp/sixdegrees                                                             
                                                                                                                       
Address:          90 William Street, 3rd Floor                                                                         
                  New York, N.Y. 10038                                                                                 
                                                                             
Main Telephone
 Number:          212-583-1234                                                           
                                                                              
Internet Home
 Page Address
  (URL):          www.sixdegrees.com

Chief Executive                                                               
 Officer:         Andrew Weinreich                                                           
                                                                              
Investor Relations                                                            
 Contact:         Shoshana Zilberberg
 Business number: 212-583-1234 X628                                                            
 
Public Relations                                                              
 Contact:         Shoshana Zilberberg                                                              
 Business number: 212-583-1234 X628                                                              
                                                                              
Industry:         Internet/WWW                                                           



    Company description: MacroView Communications Corp., developer of sixdegrees, is in the business of creating
Web-based products which help individuals build their own virtual communities based on their personal and professional
relationships. sixdegrees, located on the Web at http://www.sixdegrees.com, allows members to uncover the power of their
greatest natural resource - the people they know.
    Inspired by the theory that every person in the world is connected to every other person through a path of no more than six
relationships, sixdegrees offers several proprietary applications, all of which help members leverage their own trusted network
of contacts. Since its launch in January of 1997, sixdegrees members have been able to make new contacts quickly and easily,
gain valuable help and information and communicate directly with their own growing virtual community, all within the confines
of the sixdegrees property. As of December 1997, there were over 250,000 sixdegrees members who had listed over
930,000 contacts in the sixdegrees database. 

    --30--cvw/ny*
                                                                              
   CONTACT:  Macroview Communications Corp.
             Shoshana Zilberberg
             Director of Marketing & Communciations
             shoshana@sixdegrees.com
             
   KEYWORD:  NEW YORK
   INDUSTRY KEYWORD:  COMPUTERS/ELECTRONICS COMED 
INTERACTIVE/MULTIMEDIA/INTERNET
   PROFILE:  YES
   URL:  http://www.sixdegrees.com






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Shostack 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 14:40:43 +0800
To: John Young 
Message-ID: <19980919153245.A25309@weathership.homeport.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



The UNited States has long given far too much emphasis to gadget based 
intelligence.  Theres little conflict between my privacy and a spy in
bin laden's organization.  Its unfortunate that senior officials are
so taken with national technical means, even in the wake of their
utter failure to catch nuclear test preperations in two countries, and 
missle construction in a third.

Adam




On Thu, Sep 17, 1998 at 02:26:27PM -0400, John Young wrote:
| Excerpt from DoD transcription of Secretary of Defense Cohen's
| remarks at the Council on Foreign Relations, New York City, 
| September 14, 1998:
| 
| [Begin]
| 
| Let me say one other thing about terrorism.  We in this country 
| much recognize the tension which will exist as you ask us, and 
| we will ask all successor administrations, to protect us.  And 
| you say, how do you protect someone against terrorists?  It means 
| increased intelligence.  It means increased intelligence, having 
| greater capability on the ground or from national technical 
| sources to find out who is planning and plotting what at what 
| place and what time.  
| 
| To do that is going to put us in somewhat of a direct conflict 
| with rights to privacy, something that we hold very dear in this 
| country.  So the more intelligence-gathering responsibilities that 
| any administration is going to have, there's going to come a point 
| of tension and, indeed, friction between how much are you willing 
| to give up in order to be secure.  Those are the kind of unpleasant 
| choices that are going to be manifesting themselves in the near 
| future.  We haven't really faced up to it yet.  We're starting to 
| see some of that conflict at least intellectually develop when you 
| see the manufacturers of software who don't like the fact that the 
| law enforcement, the FBI, the Justice Department wants to have some 
| method of getting into encrypted technology. 
|  
| You say, "Wait a minute, that's my right of privacy.  I'm a 
| businessman or woman.  I want to be able to send information out 
| over those -- those airwaves and have them completely protected."  
| Our Justice Department says, "Wait a minute, you want us to protect 
| you.  But you're allowing criminal elements, terrorists and others
|  -- organized crime, drug cartels -- to encrypt their 
| telecommunications to the point where don't know what's going on.  
| And then something is going to happen, and you'll say, where were you?"
| 
| So those are the kinds of tensions that are going to continue to exist.  
| But we're going to have to have more intelligence to effectively deal 
| with terrorism in the future.  
| 
| [End excerpt]
| 
| Full transcript:
| 
|    http://jya.com/wsc091498.htm  (49K)

-- 
"It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once."
					               -Hume





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Pallas Anonymous Remailer 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 18:40:15 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: A personal response to your email to sixdegrees
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



BW1015  DEC 05,1997       4:06  PACIFIC      07:06  EASTERN


( BW)(PROFILE/MACROVIEW-COMM) Corporate Profile for Macroview Communications
Corp., dated Dec. 5, 1997


    Business Editors

    NEW YORK--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Dec. 5, 1997--The following Corporate Profile is available for inclusion in your files.
News releases for this client are distributed by Business Wire and also become part of the leading databases and online
services, including all of the leading Internet-based services.

                                                                              
Published Date:   December 5, 1997                                            
                                                                              
Company Name:     MacroView Communications Corp/sixdegrees                                                             
                                                                                                                       
Address:          90 William Street, 3rd Floor                                                                         
                  New York, N.Y. 10038                                                                                 
                                                                             
Main Telephone
 Number:          212-583-1234                                                           
                                                                              
Internet Home
 Page Address
  (URL):          www.sixdegrees.com

Chief Executive                                                               
 Officer:         Andrew Weinreich                                                           
                                                                              
Investor Relations                                                            
 Contact:         Shoshana Zilberberg
 Business number: 212-583-1234 X628                                                            
 
Public Relations                                                              
 Contact:         Shoshana Zilberberg                                                              
 Business number: 212-583-1234 X628                                                              
                                                                              
Industry:         Internet/WWW                                                           



    Company description: MacroView Communications Corp., developer of sixdegrees, is in the business of creating
Web-based products which help individuals build their own virtual communities based on their personal and professional
relationships. sixdegrees, located on the Web at http://www.sixdegrees.com, allows members to uncover the power of their
greatest natural resource - the people they know.
    Inspired by the theory that every person in the world is connected to every other person through a path of no more than six
relationships, sixdegrees offers several proprietary applications, all of which help members leverage their own trusted network
of contacts. Since its launch in January of 1997, sixdegrees members have been able to make new contacts quickly and easily,
gain valuable help and information and communicate directly with their own growing virtual community, all within the confines
of the sixdegrees property. As of December 1997, there were over 250,000 sixdegrees members who had listed over
930,000 contacts in the sixdegrees database. 

    --30--cvw/ny*
                                                                              
   CONTACT:  Macroview Communications Corp.
             Shoshana Zilberberg
             Director of Marketing & Communciations
             shoshana@sixdegrees.com
             
   KEYWORD:  NEW YORK
   INDUSTRY KEYWORD:  COMPUTERS/ELECTRONICS COMED 
INTERACTIVE/MULTIMEDIA/INTERNET
   PROFILE:  YES
   URL:  http://www.sixdegrees.com






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Thomas Junker" 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 16:55:42 +0800
To: paul_gillin@cw.com
Subject: Re: Going Cashless: Bank ends ECash trial period
Message-ID: <199809192137.QAA24495@sneety.insync.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Paul Gillin
Editor in Chief
Computerworld

Dear Paul:

The Computerworld article in Online News, 09/17/98 12:16 PM,

	Bank ends electronic cash trial
		By Mary Lisbeth D'Amico

	http://www.computerworld.com/home/news.nsf/all/9809174ecash

is a good example of today's low standards in journalistic accuracy.  
Ms. D'Amico failed utterly to comprehend what Mark Twain Bank's 
Digicash program was.  She wrote:

    Customers gave the bank their credit-card information only once,
    then created electronic "coins" at the bank, allowing them to
    make small purchases -- or micropayments -- of goods over the
    Internet without having to enter a credit-card number each time. 

Ms. D'Amico evidently confused the Digicash program with other, 
dissimilar Internet transaction mechanisms that are substitutes for 
passing credit card information over the public Internet.  In fact, 
the Digicash program HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH CREDIT CARDS OR CREDIT 
PURCHASES.  Is that clear enough?  Digicash provided the means to 
move money on deposit with Mark Twain Bank into an electronic 
"purse," from which it could be spent with merchants equipped with 
Digicash software.  No credit.  No credit cards.  No necessarily 
"small" purchases.

Ms. D'Amico's profound leap of misunderstanding misinforms and 
misleads readers.  It also rather completely vacates the presumably 
explanatory comment she attributes to the Bank's new owner's 
representative, Beth Fagen:

    Fagen also cited the changing climate in the U.S. for Internet
    payments. When the trial was started in 1995, she said, "people
    were more fearful of using credit cards to pay for things over
    the Internet. Now that seems to have disappeared." 

Had Ms. D'Amico understood the nature of Digicash, she may have 
questioned Ms. Fagen about the apparent non sequitur.  If Digicash 
had nothing to do with making credit transactions "safer," why would 
decreasing public fear of using credit cards on the Internet have 
anything to do with Mercantile's decision to abruptly discontinue the 
Digicash program?

The key fact completely overlooked, the one thing that distinguished 
the Digicash program from all the look-alike credit-card protection 
schemes, was the anonymity of the purchaser.  Ms. D'Amico mentions it 
in passing as if it were merely a curiosity.  In this increasingly 
fishbowl world, online purchases, particularly of intangibles such as 
information, are subject to tracking and record keeping that is 
clearly, demonstrably, becoming a danger to the privacy and well-
being of the online public.  It is to be expected that products and 
services such as offered by Digicash will find an increasingly 
enthusiastic market as the private and governmental abuses of 
information gathered on line become more widespread and more widely 
known.

Digicash, by the way, was never considered a true "micropayment" 
system.  Micropayment refers to the facility of trivially making and 
accepting payments as small as 1/100th, even 1/1,000th of one cent.  
No such systems have yet been fielded, and no credit card system can 
come anywhere close to the low transaction cost required to permit 
micropayments for access to Web pages, articles, or the use of minor 
online services such as HTML verifiers, graphic button builders, etc. 
It is only a matter of time before such systems become available, and 
they will likely be both anonymous and unrelated to credit cards.  
Ms. D'Amico will no doubt report the advent of such systems as yet 
another advance in the use of credit cards on the Internet.

But then, Computerworld is the outfit that used to heavily promote 
the idea of trade unions for programmers and data entry clerks, the 
"Certified Data Processor" program, and trumpeted the release of 
virtual memory by IBM some ten years after it had been fielded by 
Burroughs Corp.  Mitigating that last, the same issue of 
Computerworld carried a small, back-pages article about Burroughs' 
virtual memory, with a picture of staff at a B-5000 site celebrating 
the anniversary with a birthday cake bearing ten candles.

Regards,

Thomas Junker
tjunker@phoenix.net

http://www.phoenix.net/~tjunker/wang.html
The Unofficial Wang VS Information Center




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ryan Lackey 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 15:37:04 +0800
To: 
Subject: ArcotSign (was Re: Does security depend on hardware?)
In-Reply-To: <000d01bde407$01dc4a00$0300a8c0@sjl4120>
Message-ID: <199809192038.QAA29964@denmark-vesey.MIT.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



[from a discussion of tamper-resistant hardware for payment systems
on dbs@philodox.com, a mailing list dedicated to digital bearer systems,
where Scott Loftesness, of DigiCash and Arcot Systems, mentioned ArcotSign.]

You mentioned the URL for Arcot, and I looked at the site.  It seems
rather lacking in technical details, and makes a very strong claim --
that it can provide tamper resistance in software on a hardware/OS/etc.
platform which is generally hostile (a general purpose computer).

I noticed that there are some big name cryptographers signed 
on as advisors -- Hellman and Schneier, who make some pretty 
glowing comments about the product.  I'm not generally swayed by anything 
but mathematics, physics, and logic when it comes to cryptography and 
security, despite generally agreeing with the analyses of those 
cryptographers.

I can see a couple of ways you could approximate real security using 
untrusted hardware -- either a one time password system retained by
the user (I've investigated this in the past, and it generally ends
up being a hardware token or a printed book of codes), or a remote
system like Kerberos where there exist out of band key protection 
mechanisms, or it's not real security.  I'd love to be convinced
otherwise, particularly if the technology will be available for
others to license.

I also noticed that the system is patent pending -- this would seem
to rule out the existing hardware token/one time pad system, or the
Kerberos-style central authentication server releasing security credentials
when presented with a passphrase system, as there are decades of prior
art in each encompassing all reasonable variations.  I guess this means it's
something new and interesting -- I'm sure everyone would be interested
in details.

Of course, in any system where all you do is authenticate yourself
to a remote system, but you're not provided with a link directly
between the user and the remote authority guaranteeing 
Confidentiality, Integrity, and Authentication, you can't really
make any claims other than that the user has authenticated herself
to some server -- any transactions the user could do are subject to
a man in the middle attack, so while the user has successfully authenticated
themselves to a remote server, and signed that *some* transaction
is acceptable, there's really no legal assurance that the user has signed
*any particular transaction*.  This is far weaker than the promise
of trusted hardware, where you could have a guarantee that as long as
the protocol hasn't been violated, the user has authorized a *particular*
transaction.  This may be acceptable for authenticating access to
an online retail banking web site, or corporate information, but it
would not be sufficient for an actual payment system (DBS, account
based, or other).

Always interested in learning something new which would chance my assumptions,
Ryan
rdl@mit.edu










From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Phillip Hallam-Baker" 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 16:55:03 +0800
To: "Robert Hettinga" 
Subject: RE: Questions for Magaziner?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <003c01bde417$497a3b50$0100000a@goedel.socrates.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





> Okay, so the short precis on Magaziner's answer to my question about
> encryption controls, foriegn or domestic, is he's agin it.
>
> He says that controlling foriegn encryption is impossible, and controlling
> domestic encryption is, at the very least, unconstitutional.

This is way beyond what I expected. If I had expected him to go
beyond what he said at the MIT Media in Transition forum earlier this
year I would have made every effort to attend.

Essentially at MIT I tried to put words in his mouth by stating what
I knew he had said in private and adding that if he agreed then
Freeh would insist that one or the other of them go. He was not
at that time able to say anything more, although he did not leap
to the opportunity to push the Freeh line.


> He says that the reason the administration's encryption policy is so
> convoluted is that the law enforcement and the "economic"
> encryption camps,
> anti, and pro, evidently, is that the two sides are at loggerheads.

This statement in and of itself is not the type of thing I would
expect unless either Magaziner is planning to jump ship or he
knows that he can get away with it without retribution. If it
is the latter it would indicate that Freeh has very much less
influence than he did 6 months ago.

Not exactly a ringing endorsement of our position but something
that can be used against spokesmen for the FBI party line.

All in all I would prefer allowing the crypto export laws to
time out, becomming progressively less relevant until they
disappear than have bills appear in Congress. However good
the bill that goes into congress the result will be at best
a compromise.


		Phill




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Phillip Hallam-Baker" 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 16:55:47 +0800
To: "Alan Olsen" 
Subject: RE: Questions for Magaziner?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <003d01bde417$4b30ec00$0100000a@goedel.socrates.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> "With all the demands from Governent to escrow keys, what steps are being
> taken to protect the these keys and/or backdoors from misuse from people
> within the Government and those outside of the Government?"
>
> "Would you use escrowed cryptography for your private communications?  Who
> would you trust to hold those keys?"

We have an answer to this one, unfortunately drowned by the various
sex scandals of assorted congressional chairmen (and other sex
scandal trivia).

Mr Freeh recently testified that he wanted access to private
communications and was immediately contradicted by the Vice President
who stated that Freeh was expressing a personal opinion and
not administration policy.

Whitehouse spin or a sign that Freeh is loosing his grip? Freeh's
attempts to ingratiate himself with the republican party have
done him no favours of late.


		Phill




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ron Rivest 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 17:46:02 +0800
To: rah@shipwright.com
Subject: Questions for Magaziner? // taxing crypto
Message-ID: <199809192221.SAA13345@swan>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Hi Bob --

I feel mis-quoted and/or mis-represented in your note (below)
stating that "Magaziner mirrored Rivest's offer to tax encryption
products to pay for increased law enforcement technology support".
While I do feel that some measure of appropriate balance may be
accomplished by increasing the budget of the FBI and other
law-enforcement to help them compensate for whatever increased
difficulties they encounter because of the widespread use of
encryption, I do not recall ever suggesting that the revenues for such
increased budgets be raised by specifically taxing encryption
products, and I don't really think that is a sensible approach.  We don't
tax glove manufacturers to raise funds for the FBI fingerprint lab!
Any such funding should come out of general revenues, not by further
complicating the tax code.

	     Cheers,
	     Ron


------- Start of forwarded message ------- Return-Path:
 X-Sender: rah@pop.sneaker.net In-Reply-To:
 Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998
16:44:07 -0400 To: "Arnold G. Reinhold" ,
cypherpunks@cyberpass.net, cryptography@c2.net, dcsb@ai.mit.edu From:
Robert Hettinga  Subject: Re: Questions for
Magaziner?  Sender: owner-cryptography@c2.net

Okay, so the short precis on Magaziner's answer to my question about
encryption controls, foriegn or domestic, is he's agin it.

He says that controlling foriegn encryption is impossible, and controlling
domestic encryption is, at the very least, unconstitutional.

He says that the reason the administration's encryption policy is so
convoluted is that the law enforcement and the "economic" encryption camps,
anti, and pro, evidently, is that the two sides are at loggerheads.
Magaziner mirrored Rivest's offer to tax encryption products to pay for
increased law enforcement technology support, but, hey, he's a liberal
democrat, he's supposed to tax us to death without thinking about the
economic, and, of course privacy consequences of raising the price of
encryption.

So, all in all, he got a round of foot-stomping applause from this bunch on
his pro-encryption stance, because, evidently, being a payments technology
forum, he was preaching to the choir. Something I found out when I was
doing my own speech yesterday. I should realize that anyone building a
payment system knows that digital commerce is financial cryptography, after
all. :-)

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga
- -----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
------- End of forwarded message -------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 18:19:35 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Clinton's fake apologies (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809192343.SAA10957@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From adam@rpini.com Sat Sep 19 16:40:18 1998
> Date: 19 Sep 1998 21:21:26 -0000
> Message-ID: <19980919212126.20210.qmail@hades.rpini.com>
> From: Anonymous 
> Subject: Re: Clinton's fake apologies (fwd)

> > Then don't take the oath:
> > 
> > To tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

> What? To tell a lie is one thing, but if you preface it with "I'm telling the truth",
> then that is really really bad? I still think you're drawing a very fine line.

Of course it's different if you preface your lie with "I swear to tell the
truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth".

The oath is voluntary and therefore if broken no claim for duress, only
intentional misdirection, can explain such actions.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 12:26:05 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199809191728.TAA24903@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

September 19, 1998, U.S. Medical Center for Federal
Prisoners, Springfield, Missouri, not a Magic Circle.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.2

iQCVAwUBNgPkchp0s99tXiQlAQEoHQP+IX2GivNiJpIB3ryiu+bte0+YyJRTZDWB
bbF/qRIGrOOVKpNxuu+riAz0oUxHW3xuooPmIVcR8O0tfXljrxyAvK4qdtPFWyr9
+PaE5clU7XdRqxiKGfao569W1vRPJW5vlmUm+/BHmRF1ADG/HqTy/EbivKEvZGcw
UmrV65r+9ho=
=wa8X
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 13:58:27 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: TruthMonger key's password!
In-Reply-To: <199809191728.TAA24903@replay.com>
Message-ID: <199809191846.TAA24067@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Anonymous writes on cpunks (blank subject field from nobody@replay.com
earlier today).

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> 
> September 19, 1998, U.S. Medical Center for Federal
> Prisoners, Springfield, Missouri, not a Magic Circle.
> 
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: 2.6.2
> 
> iQCVAwUBNgPkchp0s99tXiQlAQEoHQP+IX2GivNiJpIB3ryiu+bte0+YyJRTZDWB
> bbF/qRIGrOOVKpNxuu+riAz0oUxHW3xuooPmIVcR8O0tfXljrxyAvK4qdtPFWyr9
> +PaE5clU7XdRqxiKGfao569W1vRPJW5vlmUm+/BHmRF1ADG/HqTy/EbivKEvZGcw
> UmrV65r+9ho=
> =wa8X
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

That one I can verify the signature of (unlike the 0x2541C535 key-id
signed post which I proposed we try a signature attack on because of
lack of public key), because I have on my keyring the secret key since
adding the secret key to my key ring from this post which was made to
cypherpunks [1] with headers below (look in the archives, or copied
below):

: From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
: To: cypherpunks@toad.com
: Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 01:58:52 +0200 (MET DST)
: Subject: Persistent Persona

The key in that message was:

Type Bits/KeyID    Date       User ID
sec  1024/6D5E2425 2041/12/07 TruthMonger

-----BEGIN PGP SECRET KEY BLOCK-----
Version: 2.6.3i
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=HBLx
-----END PGP SECRET KEY BLOCK-----

which means that anyone can create such signatures.

That PGP correctly copes with signatures made by keys it has only a
private key for (and no public key) is something of a surprise -- PGP
must be smart enough to use the private key if the public key isn't
around on the keyring.  (The public key is a subset of private key).

Erk! just tried to create a signed file with that private key, and I
didn't notice before when I commented on the posting of this key that
key has a passphrase!  It wouldn't be one of those John Young
forwarded to the list from an anonymous source would it....

Holy smoke!  Now we are getting somewhere, the person who remailed
those passphrases to John Young knew that keys passphrase, and yet the
key was posted back in Sep 97!

John Young writes on cpunks:
> This allegedly is forwarded from CJ, though from an unknown source 
> so think twice:
> 
>       "Passwords:  sog, sog709, sog709cejCJP,sog709cjpCEJ, D'Shauneaux, 
>       D'shauneaux, and others..."

The passphrase was sog709.  Try it and see.  Check in the archives for
yourself for that message, (subject 'Persistent Persona') and become
paranoid!

What is going on here?  Is Toto still at large, drunk behind the
keyboard?  Is Toto not one person?  Or have the IRS extracted Carl
Johnson's passphrases from him and got busy playing mind-games with
us?

Adam

[1]
======================================================================
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 01:58:52 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: Persistent Persona
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)

-----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE-----
Version: 2.6.2
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=HBLx
-----END PGP MESSAGE-----

-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
Version: 2.6.2
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=j6da
-----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 21:46:08 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: IRS official predicts Y2K snafus
Message-ID: <199809200246.TAA11933@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: IRS official predicts Y2K snafus
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 12:20:40 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  Government Executive Magazine
http://www.govexec.com/dailyfed/0998/091798n1.htm

September 17, 1998

DAILY BRIEFING

IRS official predicts Y2K snafus

By Nancy Ferris
nferris@govexec.com

The new chief information officer at the IRS is predicting there
will be tax processing problems in the upcoming filing season
because of the agency's speeded-up program to fix year 2000
bugs in its computer systems.

CIO Paul J. Cosgrave, speaking today at a luncheon meeting
of the Association for Federal Information Resources
Management, said 98 percent of the IRS's software will be
fixed by early next year, when the 1998 filing season begins.
But, he added, "there will be some problems" because not all
of the fixes will be perfect.

Asked afterward how serious the problems would be,
Cosgrave said it was too early to tell. The agency is working
hard to minimize their effect, he added. The good news, he
said, is that when the century change actually occurs on Dec.
31, 1999, the IRS will have put its Y2K problems behind it.
"We're a year early," he said. The agency is spending close to
$1 billion on Y2K fixes.

Cosgrave, a well-known consultant, was brought in to help the
IRS straighten out its troubled systems modernization program
and build new systems to support the reorganized agency. He
said the IRS will exercise more central control over information
technology and try to standardize the systems environment.
"Today we have 17 e-mail systems in the IRS," he said by way
of example.

The reorganization announced by IRS Commissioner Charles
Rossotti will replace the service's current regional structure with
four new units serving specific groups of customers. That
change, combined with the systems modernization program,
will lead to new job responsibilities for many IRS employees,
Cosgrave said.

The agency will move some headquarters functions to field
offices and move some back office employees to customer
service jobs. But because it can't relocate many of the affected
workers, it plans to "use more remote assignment work,"
where employees in one location work for managers in
another, Cosgrave said.

The IRS also will dramatically increase its investment in
employee training, from $3.5 million this year to $11 million
two years from now.
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 21:45:25 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Crypto Controls Threaten Human Rights
Message-ID: <199809200246.TAA11944@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Crypto Controls Threaten Human Rights
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 17:06:43 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  OneWorld Magazine
http://www.oneworld.org/news/today/index.html

Crypto Controls Threaten Human Rights 
 Vienna conference warned against restricting free expression 

 (New York, September 18, 1998) -- Human Rights Watch today urged an
international conference on technology, now meeting in Vienna, not to
expand controls on encryption technologies. The organization said that
cryptographic products are critical to the ability of human rights
defenders around the world to transmit sensitive information without
detection by repressive governments. 

The conference is reviewing the 1996 Wassenaar Arrangement, an
international agreement signed by 30 countries to govern the proliferation
of military technology. 

Dissidents and human rights organizations under repressive regimes
frequently use encryption technologies to share information. Encryption has
the power to authenticate the identity of these authors to their partners
abroad, while protecting their identity from despots at home.  

The United States has adopted relatively restrictive encryption policies,
which prohibit the global dsitribution of software used to encrypt text. In
particular, Washington has outlawed the export of the most popular software
among human rights activists, Pretty Good Privacy (PGP), although the
Wassenaar Arrangement explicitly exempts crypto-software, like PGP, that is
widely available in the public domain. 

Human Rights Watch warned the other participants in the Vienna conference
not to incorporate such restrictive policies into the Wassenaar
Arrangement, or to further limit the global distribution, development, or
use of strong encryption hardware or software. 

"Encryption is more than a shield for human rights activists," said Jagdish
Parikh, associate online researcher at Human Rights Watch. "Coded language
is still language, and it must be protected as a basic human right to free
expression." Parikh noted that the right to free expression is set forth in
Article 19 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, to
which most members of Wassenaar Arrangement are party. 

Human Rights Watch said that encryption is also an important bulwark
against violations of privacy in an age where computerization and data
banks enable the collection of huge amounts of personal information about
individuals. Moreover, international law requires states not only to
refrain from arbitrary interference with privacy, but to affirmatively
protect its citizens from such attacks.  

"The sorts of countries most eager to ban the use of encryption, such as
China and Iran, are not known for respecting freedom of speech," said
Parikh. "Using encryption should not subject an individual to criminal
sanction, any more than using Pig Latin or Swahili does." 

Many human rights activists around the world would be spared retaliation
and abuse if crypto-software were more widely available, Parikh said. 
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 21:44:44 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: [FP] Ohio gets Computerized Fingerprint System
Message-ID: <199809200246.TAA11955@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: "ScanThisNews" 
Subject: IP: [FP] Ohio gets Computerized Fingerprint System
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 19:34:28 -0500
To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com

======================================================================
SCAN THIS NEWS

-------------------------------------------------
http://www.ag.ohio.gov/pressrel/livescan.htm

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
July 25, 1997

Attorney General Betty Montgomery Brings New Technology
to Ohio Law Enforcement

Montgomery Gives Computerized Fingerprint Systems
Free of Charge to Help in the Fight Against Crime

Columbus -- In an effort to assist local law enforcement and improve Ohio's
criminal history records, Attorney General Betty D. Montgomery today
announced that 23 law enforcement agencies in Ohio will be receiving
Live-Scan systems at no cost to the agencies.

Through federal grants and money from the Attorney General's budget,
Live-Scan computerized fingerprint identification systems have been
purchased and are being distributed to law enforcement agencies across the
state. The agencies that send the most fingerprint cards to the Ohio Bureau
of Criminal Identification and Investigation (BCI) were chosen to receive
Live-Scan.

Montgomery was joined by representatives from several law enforcement
agencies that will be receiving Live-Scan systems and local public officials
in announcing this new technology being given to more than 20 law
enforcement agencies.

"I want to thank the Attorney General's Office for this modernized
equipment, which will help law enforcement's advancement in building the
bridge to the 21st century, with technology in crime fighting," said
Franklin County Sheriff Jim Karnes.

Live-Scan provides high-quality electronic fingerprint images through
state-of-the-art computer imaging. Most Ohio law enforcement agencies rely
on the traditional form of using ink to slowly roll each individual
fingerprint onto cards.

With Live-Scan, fingers are placed directly onto a scanner without having to
use ink. The image is stored electronically, and copies of the card can be
printed at any time. This new system will give law enforcement consistently
higher quality fingerprints to use for processing and identification.

These new systems will also electronically send the fingerprint cards to
BCI. This will be an important step in ensuring the quality of Ohio's
criminal history records. BCI will now be able to receive records in a more
timely fashion and virtually eliminate the possibility of records being lost
or not sent. The systems will assist local law enforcement by cutting-down
on the number of hours needed to process fingerprint cards by eliminating
the timely duplicative process of fingerprinting.

The Live-Scan systems will be linked late this fall to BCI's Automated
Fingerprint Identification System (AFIS). AFIS is a computer system that
holds the fingerprint images and criminal history records of more than 1.2
million criminals in Ohio. With Live-Scan, law enforcement agencies will be
able to quickly search AFIS for matches to their fingerprint cards. This
will be extremely useful if someone with a prior record tries to give an
alias or refuses to disclose his or her name. The agency can scan the
suspect's fingerprints and check them against the database at BCI for a
match.

"Here's the bottom line: This technology will allow police to identify
criminals faster and more accurately than anything even dreamed of just
years ago," Montgomery said.

The Live-Scan systems were purchased for almost $1.1 million from Identix
Inc. of California. Ohio is joining the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms, the U.S. Marshal, and numerous
other federal agencies, states, and cities that have also purchased
Live-Scan systems from Identix Inc. Each system retails for $70,000 but the
Attorney General was able to negotiate a purchase price for a much lower
cost of $44,220.

Law enforcement agencies that already have Live-Scan systems and meet
requirements of the National Institute of Standards and Technology will be
connected with Ohio's AFIS as part of the contract with Identix Inc. The
contract also allows any local law enforcement agency to purchase a
Live-Scan system within the next year at the same price negotiated by the
Attorney General.

Attorney General Montgomery also announced that her office plans to purchase
additional Live-Scan systems in the beginning of next year to be distributed
to more law enforcement agencies across the state.

-30-

Below is the list of agencies receiving Live-Scan systems:

Cleveland Police Department
Cuyahoga County Sheriff's Office
Clermont County Sheriff's Office
Delaware County Sheriff's Office
Franklin County Sheriff's Office
Clark County Sheriff's Office
Pickaway County Sheriff's Office
Miami Township Police Department
Columbiana County Sheriff's Office
Lake County Sheriff's Office
Licking County Sheriff's Office
Mahoning County Sheriff's Office
Highland County Sheriff's Office
Boardman Police Department
Elyria Police Department
Allen County Sheriff's Office
Lorain Police Department
Coshocton County Sheriff's Office
Whitehall Police Department
Miamisburg Police Department
Springdale Police Department
Kent Police Department
Medina County Sheriff's Office

=======================================================================
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1) you can confirm it with another source, and/or
2) it is consistent with what you already know to be true.
=======================================================================
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 21:44:47 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: [BioWeekly_Email] Announcement
Message-ID: <199809200246.TAA11966@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: Bioweekly Special Announcement 
Subject: IP: [BioWeekly_Email] Announcement
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 18:17:12 -0500
To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com

We thought you might be interested in some recent announcements
regarding Banking on Biometrics =9298 which is just around the corner. The
conference is on October 12-14, 1998 in Dallas, Texas, US.

New speakers recently added include:

     Randall Fowler, CEO, Identix Corp.;=20
     Frank Smead, SpeakerKey Marketing Manager, ITT Industries;=20

Other outstanding presenters include:=20

     Jim Wayman, US National Biometric Test Center
     John Woodward, Attorney and Biometric Legal Consultant
     Jeremy Newman, President, PenOp Corp.=20
     Adam Backenroth, Chase Manhattan Bank
     Dr. Joseph Atick, CEO, Visionics Corp.
     Colleen Madigan, SafLINK Corp.
     Gail Koehler, Purdue Empl. Fed. Credit Union
     James O=92Dell, CUNA Mutual Insurance Group
     Robert Van Naarden, Sensar, Inc.=20
     Michelle Roberts, Texas Bankers Association
     Ray Findley, Pres., American Card, Inc.=20
     Chris Olsen-Potter, Identicator, Inc.
     Raj Nanavati, International Biometric Group
     Judith Markowitz, J.Markowitz Consultants
     Ron Beyner, T-NETIX, Inc.=20
     Francis Declercq, Keyware Corp.
     Mike Grimes, Miros Corp.=20

=3D=3D>  GET YOUR FREE REGISTRATION THROUGH OUR GROUP DISCOUNT PROGRAM

Connect with Southwest Airlines to get your lowest possible airline
rates to Dallas =85.. but better yet, register two of your clients,
business associates, customers, prospects, friends or family and attend
the conference FREE.  You can register three persons for the price of
two - and that third person could be YOU. Conference registration is
$490. =20

Our group discount is excellent for any company wanting to send a group
of employees for an employee training program.  Registration fees drop
to $350 each for 4-5 persons, $300 each for 6-10 persons and to $260
each for over 10 registrants.


=3D=3D>  BIOMETRIC VIDEO TAKING SHAPE

The first biometric infomercial is taking shape and will be available
during and after the conference. If you register NOW, you=92ll get a free
copy at the conference.  If you want a copy later, we=92ll be glad to sell
you one. Suggested cost (still pending) is $125.


=3D=3D>  NEED MORE INFORMATION ON BIOMETRICS

There will be biometric consultants at the conference who will be glad
to answer your questions and provide you with more information.=20


=3D=3D>  VISIT THE CONFERENCE WEB SITE FOR MORE DETAILS AND RESERVATION
INFORMATION -=20

    http://www.biodigest.com

    or call Linda Bikoff - (202) 337-0023,  Email - Lbikoff@aol.com.








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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 21:57:58 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 4.47:Russian Big Brother covets all the E-mail
Message-ID: <199809200246.TAA11978@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: "ama-gi ISPI" 
Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 4.47:Russian Big Brother covets all the E-mail
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 01:18:03 -0700
To: 

ISPI Clips 4.47:Russian Big Brother covets all the E-mail
News & Info from the Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI)
Saturday September 19, 1998
ISPI4Privacy@ama-gi.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This From: US News & World Report, September 14, 1998
http://www.usnews.com

Big Brother covets all the E-mail
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/issue/980914/14key.htm

By
Christian Caryl


Believe it or not, there are some areas where Russia leads the world. While
other countries from Germany to Singapore ponder the pluses and minuses of
government regulation of the Internet, Russia is way ahead. Its State
Security Service (FSB), the main successor to the KGB, is planning
all-encompassing surveillance of Internet communications. Internet
activists say that the proposed regulations are proof of just how far
Russia's struggling democracy has to go. "There is no concept of privacy
anywhere in Russian legislation," says Andrei Sebrant of GlasNet, one of
the country's leading Internet service providers. "So strictly speaking,
there's nothing at all illegal about this."

The plans, which have never been officially presented or acknowledged by
the government, became public a few weeks ago, when they were leaked to
critics. The idea is to force each service provider to install a "black
box" connecting its network to the local FSB office via fiber-optic cable.

That would enable state-sponsored snoopers to collect and examine E-mail,
as well as data on addressees and recipients and Web surfing habits. Users,
meanwhile, would never have the slightest sign of prying eyes and ears.

The cost for the extra equipment would be borne by the providers
themselves. Anatoli Levenchuk, an Internet expert who posted the proposed
regulations on the Web and is leading the most vocal online protest, says
that the requirements would boost providers' costs by 10 to 15 percent.
That increase would be passed on to users, who already pay around $35 per
month, very expensive by Russian standards. "Right now, we have about 1
million Internet users in Russia," says Levenchuk. "So those price hikes
could immediately reduce the Internet community here by hundreds of
thousands." Any providers who refuse to comply can expect to have their
operating licenses yanked by the all-powerful Ministry of Communications,
which has been helping the FSB draft the rules.

But the FSB's plans may ultimately serve to prove just how resistant to any
kind of centralized control the Internet remains. The new proposal doesn't
address encryption, and the drug dealers and terrorists the FSB ostensibly
wants to catch will be the first to resort to tough-to-crack encryption
systems. Russian Web sites offering encryption technology have been doing a
booming business since the first news of the regulations came out. But most
Russian Internet users have little familiarity with encryption techniques,
according to Maksim Otstavnov, an editor at CompuTerra magazine. For them,
this could be the electronic equivalent of the days when the Soviet KGB
routinely tapped phones and opened mail.

--------------------------------NOTICE:------------------------------
ISPI Clips are news & opinion articles on privacy issues from
all points of view; they are clipped from local, national and international
newspapers, journals and magazines, etc. Inclusion as an ISPI Clip
does not necessarily reflect an endorsement of the content or opinion
by ISPI. In compliance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed free without profit or payment for non-profit research
and educational purposes only.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

ISPI Clips is a FREE e-mail service from the "Institute for the Study
of Privacy Issues" (ISPI). To receive "ISPI Clips" on a daily bases
(approx. 3 - 8 clips per day) send the following message  "Please
enter [Your Name] into the ISPI Clips list: [Your e-mail address]" to:
ISPIClips@ama-gi.com  .

The Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) is a small
contributor-funded organization based in Victoria, British Columbia
(Canada). ISPI operates on a not-for-profit basis, accepts no
government funding and takes a global perspective.

ISPI's mandate is to conduct & promote interdisciplinary research
into electronic, personal and  financial privacy with a view toward
helping ordinary people understand the degree of privacy they have
with respect to government, industry and each other and to likewise
inform them about techniques to enhance their privacy.

But, none of this can be accomplished without your kind and
generous financial support. If you value in the ISPI Clips service or if
you are concerned about the erosion of your privacy in general, won't
you please help us continue this important work by becoming an "ISPI
Clips Supporter" or by taking out an institute Membership?

We gratefully accept all contributions:

  Less than $60    ISPI Clips Supporter
          $60 - $99    Primary ISPI Membership (1 year)
      $100 - $300    Senior ISPI Membership (2 years)
More than $300    Executive Council Membership (life)

Your ISPI "membership" contribution entitles you to receive "The ISPI
Privacy Reporter" (our bi-monthly 12 page hard-copy newsletter in
multi-contributor format) for the duration of your membership.

For a contribution form with postal instructions please send the following
message "ISPI Contribution Form" to ISPI4Privacy@ama-gi.com .

We maintain a strict privacy policy. Any information you divulge to ISPI
is kept in strict confidence. It will not be sold, lent or given away to
any third party.








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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 21:56:09 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: UK: Microchips & Animal Passports for Pets
Message-ID: <199809200246.TAA11989@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: UK: Microchips & Animal Passports for Pets
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 06:40:49 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  London Telegraph
http://www.telegraph.co.uk:80/et?ac=000150689433551&rtmo=gYkgwZZu&atmo=99999
999&P4_FOLLOW_ON=/98/9/19/npets19.html&pg=/et/98/9/19/npets19.html

UK News 
Electronic Telegraph 
Saturday 19 September 1998
Issue 1212

Passports for pets in new rabies law
By David Brown, Agriculture Editor 

BRITAIN'S stringent anti-rabies quarantine laws are to be swept aside in
favour of electronic scanners and animal passports under plans to be
published by the Government next week.

A scheme relying on microchip implants that can be electronically
monitored, together with documentary proof that animals have been immunised
against rabies and other diseases, are among a raft of proposals that could
mean the demise of mandatory six-months quarantine for all imported animals.

Under the proposals, animals travelling between designated "low disease
risk" countries in Europe and elsewhere would be allowed entry on condition
that they were carefully screened on arrival and possibly subjected to
blood tests. The Government is likely to back the proposals for a radical
overhaul of the increasingly controversial quarantine system, which has
been Britain's main front-line defence against rabies for nearly a century. 

Currently, imported pets must be held in nominated kennels for six months
until vets decide they pose no health risk to people or animals in this
country. Diplomats and members of the Armed Forces will be among those who
should find life easier - if their overseas posts meet new criteria for
assessing potential risks and
their animals are properly vaccinated and provided with proposed new
movement documents.

But quarantine will not disappear completely under the plans drawn up over
the past 10 months by a team of independent government advisers headed by
Prof Ian Kennedy of University College, London. It will remain as a safety
net to screen animals imported from countries that still have a problem
with rabies - including many
in Eastern Europe, North and South America, Africa and the Far East. "It
will not be the free-for-all that some people might expect," Whitehall
sources said last night.

Nick Brown, the Minister of Agriculture, is expected to call a press
conference next Wednesday to publish the report. But before the Government
acts, the plans will be circulated for consultation among vets, animal
welfare organisations, including the Royal Society for the Prevention of
Cruelty to Animals, dog and cat breed societies,
farmers and other groups with an interest in animal health.

Britain's last major rabies scare was in 1969. In 1983, an Irish Wolfhound
imported from the United States was caught with rabies in a quarantine
kennel and in June 1996, at the height of the BSE crisis, a rabid bat that
is believed to have crossed the Channel, bit a pregnant woman in Newhaven,
Sussex. 

The Government decided in October last year to review the current
quarantine arrangements after coming under mounting pressure from animal
welfare groups and pet owners, including Chris Patten, Britain's last
Governor of Hong Kong, who complained about difficulties in returning his
family's pet dogs to Britain.

Those complaints, coupled with the decline of rabies in EU countries, have
given added impetus for the reform of the system over the past two years.
But many vets remain to be convinced that easing quarantine is a good idea,
arguing that veterinary certificates issued abroad may not be valid.

The British Veterinary Association said last night: "We have not seen a
copy of this report but our position is clear. We will not agree to any
changes which do not, in our view, provide the United Kingdom with at least
the level of safeguards against disease that the present quarantine system
provides."

(c) Copyright Telegraph Group Limited 1998.
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 21:45:41 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: "Bioarmageddon"
Message-ID: <199809200246.TAA12000@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: "Bioarmageddon"
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 06:56:14 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  New Scientist
http://www.newscientist.com/nsplus/insight/bioterrorism/bioarmageddon.html

Bioterrorism Special Report: 

Bioarmageddon 
By Debora MacKenzie 

Sooner or later there is going to be a biological attack on a major city.
Are we prepared to deal with it? Not a chance, says Debora MacKenzie 

It begins with a threat. A terrorist group declares that unless its demands
are met within 48 hours, it will release anthrax over San Francisco. Two
days later, a private plane flies across the Bay, spreading an aerosol
cloud that shimmers briefly in the sunlight before disappearing. 

Scenario one: thousands are killed in the panic as 2 million people flee
the city. Another 1·6 million inhale anthrax spores. Antibiotics are rushed
in, but the hospitals are overwhelmed and not everyone receives
treatment. Most of the country's limited stock of anthrax vaccine has
already been given to soldiers.
Emergency crews provide little help as there are only four germ-proof suits
in the whole city. More than a
million of the Bay Area's 6.5 million residents die.  

Scenario two: in the two days before the attack, citizens seal their doors
and windows with germ-proof tape. They listen to the radio for
instructions, their gas masks, drugs and disinfectants ready. Few panic.
When sensors around the city confirm that the cloud contains anthrax
spores, hospitals receive the appropriate antibiotics and vaccines. Trained
emergency teams with germ-proof suits and tents set up in the places where
automated weather analyses show the deadly cloud will drift. With advance
preparation and rapid response only 100,000 people die. 

A terrorist who plans to drop anthrax over San Francisco tomorrow can count
on causing the murder and mayhem described in the first scenario--at least
according to the simulation that generated these scenarios last year. The
question facing policy makers now is: how do we move toward the second
scenario? 

That terrorists may someday turn to biological weapons is no longer a
matter of debate (see "All fall down",
New Scientist, 11 May 1996, p 32). "Terrorism has changed," says Brad
Roberts of the US government-backed Institute for Defense Analyses in
Virginia. "Traditional terrorists wanted political concessions," he says.
"But now, some groups say their main aim is mass casualties. That makes
biological weapons appealing." 

Terrorists would have little trouble getting their hands on the technology.
Hearings in South Africa in June
revealed that the apartheid government produced terrorist weapons
containing anthrax, Salmonella and cholera. Soviet scientists who have
prepared weapons-grade anthrax and smallpox are known to have emigrated,
possibly to well-funded terrorist groups like the one run by Osama bin
Laden in Afghanistan.
Even small groups such as the Aum Shinrikyo sect in Japan have been able to
cook up vats of Salmonella or
botulin, the toxin that causes botulism.  

With bioweapons so readily available, how can governments protect us from a
terrorist armed with anthrax, smallpox or plague? In May, scientists,
policy makers and security experts gathered in Stockholm to discuss how to
limit the devastation of a biological attack on civilians. Until now, most
biological defence strategies have been geared to protecting soldiers on
the battlefield rather than ordinary people in cities. The situations are
quite different, and novel technologies are needed for civilian defence. 

Suppose a commuter stumbled across a time bomb filled with anthrax on an
underground railway platform.
Until this year, no police force in the world had any way to disarm such a
device safely. One novel solution that attracted attention at Stockholm was
a tent full of antiseptic foam. Researchers at Irvin Aerospace in Fort
Erie, Ontario, have developed a dome-shaped tent made of ultratough Mylar
that can be filled with a stiff foam--the exact composition of which is a
closely guarded secret--that kills germs and also neutralises chemical
weapons. Once covered by the foam-filled tent, the bomb can be safely
detonated. 

But what if germs are already in the air? The protective suits and masks
used by most emergency services don't have seals tight enough to exclude
microorganisms, making them useless against biological attacks, says Jack
Sawicki, a former fireman who now works for Geomet Technologies near
Washington DC. And the
lack of standards for gas masks sold to civilians in most countries makes
it as likely that a mask will suffocate
you as save you, he says. The suits developed for the military do
work--their tight joints and zippers keep
bugs out--but they are too pricey for the average fire department. 

Both Geomet and Irvin Aerospace are about to market civilian bio-suits. In
the meantime, other companies are
designing protective gear that actually kills pathogens. Molecular
Geodesics in Cambridge, Massachusetts, for
example, is developing a suit made of a tough, sponge-like polymer that
traps bacteria and viruses, which are then destroyed by disinfectants
incorporated into the fabric. 

Stealthy attack 

None of this gear will do any good, however, if the emergency services do
not know there has been an
attack. And an assault may not be obvious. A terrorist might not use a
weapon that goes off with a dramatic
bang, or even produces an obvious cloud of germs. The first hint of a
biological attack may be a sudden
cluster of sick people.  

Even that will be missed unless someone is watching. And few are. In the
US, financial cutbacks have
crippled programmes to track disease outbreaks, natural or deliberate. Some
could be either, such as
food poisoning caused by Escherichia coli O157 or Salmonella. Medical
agencies fear that the extra money
requested by President Bill Clinton this spring as part of an
anti-terrorist initiative will not be enough to create
an adequate surveillance network.  

In Europe, disease surveillance is only beginning to be organised on the
continent-wide scale needed to track a biological emergency. But in
addition to monitoring infected people, Nicholas Staritsyn of the State
Research Centre for Applied Microbiology near Moscow says that more effort
should be made to find
out which bugs live where. For example, a particular variety of anthrax may
occur naturally in South Africa,
but not in Canada. Having access to such information could help authorities
to distinguish between natural
outbreaks and deliberate attacks.  

Even when infected people start turning up at local hospitals, early
diagnosis of their illness might not be
easy, says Steve Morse, who heads the US programme on new diagnostic
technologies run by the Defense
Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA). The first symptoms of anthrax,
plague and many other
potential agents of bioterrorism resemble those of flu: headaches, fevers,
aching muscles, coughing. What's
more, some of these symptoms might be brought on by panic attacks, which
are likely to be widespread among people who have just been told that they
are the victims of a biological attack. 

One answer discussed in Stockholm would be for hospitals to have the type
of high-tech detectors being
developed to identify airborne pathogens on the battlefield. With a
detector at each bedside, doctors could pick out the volatile molecules
released by damaged lung membranes at a very early stage of infection and
instantly tell whether a patient was a victim of a biological attack, says
Mildred Donlon, head of environmental detection research at DARPA. 

Eventually, DARPA would like to develop a detector that weighs no more than
2 kilograms, can identify as few as two particles of 20 different
biological agents in a sample of air, costs less than $5000 and does not
give false negatives. Such detectors could be deployed around cities to
give early warning of airborne disease. 

In the meantime, researchers led by Wayne Bryden at Johns Hopkins
University in Baltimore are working on revamping the traditional laboratory
workhorse, the mass spectrometer, for use in the field or in hospitals.
They've reduced this unwieldy piece of equipment to a suitcase-sized
machine that can distinguish between,
say, Shigella, which causes dysentery, and Salmonella. A shoebox-sized
version, says Bryden, could be ready in five years. 

Other researchers are experimenting with devices that would not seem out of
place in an episode of Star Trek: Voyager. Tiny electronic chips that
contain living nerve cells may someday warn of the presence of bacterial
toxins, many of which are nerve poisons. Like a canary in a coal mine, the
neurons on the chip will chatter until something kills them. "Anything that
stops it singing is immediate cause for alarm," says Donlon. 

While the "canary on a chip" could detect a broad range of toxins, other
devices are designed to identify specific pathogens. One prototype consists
of a fibre-optic tube lined with antibodies coupled to light-emitting
molecules. In the presence of plague or anthrax bacteria, or the toxins
botulin or ricin, the molecules light up. 

Outwitting our defences 

Devices based on antibodies are far from foolproof. First, you need to have
the correct antibodies--not easy when you consider the vast number of
pathogens you'd need to include, and their ever-changing repertoire of
surface proteins. "And even the right antibodies can identify only what is
on the outside of a particle," Donlon points out. Bugs can be encapsulated
in gels or biological polymers to foil antibodies, or normally harmless
bacteria engineered to carry nasty genes. "I want to know what is on the
inside," she says. 

To do this, DARPA-funded researchers are developing identification
techniques based on RNA analysis. Unlike DNA, which is now used to identify
unknown organisms, RNA is plentiful inside cells and need not be amplified
before identification begins. And messenger RNA molecules reveal not only
what a microorganism
is, but what toxins it is making.   

Once the biological agent has been identified, how do you combat it?
Vaccinating people before they are exposed is one answer. This is the
strategy the military is betting on. Last year, the US military launched a
programme to develop vaccines against potential biological weapons. It will
create jabs for diseases for which none exist, such as Ebola, and improve
existing vaccines--including the 30-year-old anthrax vaccine being given to
2·4 million American soldiers. 

But vaccines are no cure-all. An attacker need only generate a germ that
sports different antigens to those used in a vaccine to render that vaccine
ineffective. Plus, as bioterrorists get more sophisticated, they will
develop novel, possibly artificial, pathogens against which conventional
vaccines will be useless, predicts Morse. 

To get around these problems, DARPA is looking at ways of developing
vaccines quickly enough for them to be created, mass-produced and
distributed after an attack. The first step, which many researchers
including those in the fast-paced field of genomics are now working on,
involves speeding up DNA sequencing so that an unknown pathogen's genes
could be detailed in a day. The resulting sequences could then be the basis
for developing an instant DNA vaccine. 

Making the vaccine is only half the problem, however. Soldiers can be
ordered to take shots, but immunising 
the rest of the population is another matter. Civilians are unlikely to
volunteer for the dozens of vaccinations that would be necessary to protect
them against every conceivable biological threat. An attack would make many
change their minds, but in such circumstances there might not be enough to
go around. Although Clinton has called for the stockpiling of vaccines, the
US has only 5 million doses of smallpox vaccine--not enough to contain a
hypothetical attack, says Ken Berry, president of the American Academy of
Emergency Physicians. 

Ken Alibek, the former second-in-command of the Soviet germ warfare
programme who revealed earlier this year that the Soviets had weaponised
tonnes of smallpox, argues that it is short-sighted to put too much effort
into developing vaccines. Instead, says Alibek, who is now at the Batelle
Institute in Virginia, researchers should concentrate on ways to treat
victims of biological weapons. Today's antibiotics may be useless because
germs could be equipped with genes for resistance to all of them. Russian
scientists have already created such a strain of anthrax (This Week, 28
February, p 4). 

For any treatment to be effective amid the potential chaos of a
bioterrorist attack, speed will be of the essence. At the Stockholm
meeting, researchers reported their efforts to develop drugs that work
against a wide variety of infections and so can be used even before
definitive diagnosis. Some are trying to take advantage of recently
identified similarities in the way many pathogens produce disease to
develop broad-spectrum drugs. 

For example, Ebola, anthrax and plague all kill their victims by inducing a
widespread inflammatory reaction similar to toxic shock syndrome. A team in
Cincinnati is testing an anti-inflammatory drug that could stop all of
them. Another gang of bacteria--including plague, Salmonella, Shigella and
Pseudomonas aeruginosa (one of the bacteria that can cause pneumonia and
meningitis)--relies on very similar proteins to latch onto human cells and
inject toxins. Drugs that block this system might save people from all
these germs, Ĺke Forsberg of the Swedish Defence Research Establishment in
Umeĺ told the meeting.  

The trouble with all these new anti-bioweapon gizmos, gadgets and medicines
is that it's far from certain that 
they would be available in time to shield the first major city targeted for
a bioterrorist attack. At the moment, the US is one of the few countries
taking the bioterrorist threat seriously. Sweden, France and Israel have
trained emergency teams and stockpiled gas masks. Other countries do not
seem concerned. "The threat of bioterrorism has not seized our European
friends," says Mike Moodie of the Chemical and Biological Arms Control
Institute, a think-tank near Washington DC. "They feel it's too improbable." 

Perhaps they should reconsider. Berry, who helped run the doomsday
simulations that ravaged San  Francisco, says: "Security experts are not
asking if a biological attack on a civilian population is going to happen,
but when." 

>From New Scientist, 19 September 1998 
(c) Copyright New Scientist, RBI Limited 1998
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 21:57:05 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Clinton Computer Exports Compromise Nat'l Security
Message-ID: <199809200246.TAA12011@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Clinton Computer Exports Compromise Nat'l Security
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 07:40:35 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  New York Times
http://www.nytimes.com/library/tech/98/09/biztech/articles/17computer-export
s.html

September 17, 1998

U.S. Agency Faults Study on Exports of Computers

By JEFF GERTH

WASHINGTON -- When the Clinton administration relaxed export controls on
high-performance computers in 1996, it relied on a flawed report that did
not study the national security implications and concluded with scant data
that the computers were already easily available around the world,
government auditors said Wednesday. 

The opposite conclusion is true, said the General Accounting Office, the
audit arm of Congress. In a report released to a Senate panel, the auditors
found that such high-performance computers "are not readily available" to
countries of national security concern to the United States, like China,
India or Pakistan. 

The GAO report also said that American manufacturers continue to dominate
the overseas market. An important administration argument for loosening
export controls was that easing controls was the only way
American computer makers could compete against widely available
foreign-made technology. 

The auditors said that "a key element" in the decision to relax the export
controls was a Stanford University study, commissioned by the Commerce and
Defense departments without any competition, that said some U.S. computer
technology was uncontrollable worldwide and efforts to control it would
harm the industry. 

 But the auditors said that the study "lacked empirical evidence or
analysis regarding its conclusion" of uncontrollability. The GAO also said
that the study failed to do one of its assigned tasks: study how countries
like China might use the computers for military purposes. 

Within a year after the export rules were loosened, military installations
in Russia and China obtained a few powerful new American computers,
prompting criminal investigations and a retightening by Congress of the
export controls.  

The study's authors responded to the GAO, and their responses were
presented to the Senate subcommittee on International Security,
Proliferation and Federal Services by Harold Johnson, the GAO's associate
director. 

Johnson said that the authors told the accounting office that they did not
do a national security threat analysis because the federal government does
not have the right information to do such a study. Seymour Goodman, the
study's principal author, disputed the GAO's criticism of his report's
analysis. "We had a lot of empirical evidence and we did a comprehensive
analysis that was different from theirs and that focused on the
availability of U.S.-built systems." 

William Reinsch, the undersecretary of commerce for export administration,
defended the administration's relaxation of controls and said the GAO had
asked the wrong question in looking at the computer marketplace. 

"Even though the U.S. today dominates the market for high-performance
computers, there is a performance threshold below which we can not
realistically expect to maintain control of computers unless we restrict
sales to our closest allies," he said. 

Reinsch went on to argue that the GAO was wrong to rank national security
as the top priority for looking at this issue. Instead, he said, the first
priority should be the realities of the marketplace, where high-performance
computers "are becoming less and less controllable because they are
becoming smaller, cheaper, more powerful and more reliable, requiring less
vendor support." 

President Clinton announced the change in policy in late 1995, fulfilling a
pledge he made early in his administration to computer executives. The move
also helped countries like China, which could now buy more
advanced American computers without any federal license as long as the
technology was used for civilian purposes. 

But the new rules made the exporter responsible for deciding whether a
license was required, a decision previously made by the federal government.
This new responsibility, the GAO report said, was "particularly difficult"
for companies selling to countries like China, "where identifying the
distinction between a civilian and military end user can be difficult
without information that is sometimes available only to the U.S. government." 

Now, the Clinton administration is weighing whether to further relax the
computer export limits. But the administration's critics remain "concerned
that the policy is flawed," said Sen. Thad Cochran, R-Miss., who led
Wednesday's hearing.  

 Copyright 1998 The New York Times Company
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 21:45:10 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Pentagon curbs Web content
Message-ID: <199809200246.TAA12023@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Pentagon curbs Web content
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 07:43:45 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  ComputerWorld
http://www.computerworld.com/home/news.nsf/all/98091838dod

 (Online News, 09/18/98 01:07 PM)

Pentagon curbs Web content
By Sharon Machlis

 Top Pentagon officials are scouring military Web sites to see if too much
information is being made public -- data that could potentially help the
country's enemies. 

 Some observers fear that listing members of specific military units could
help terrorists find revenge targets, for example, particularly after an
operation such as the recent missile strikes in Afghanistan and the Sudan. 

 "Basically, the military does stupid things," said Ira Winkler, a former
analyst at the National Security Agency and author of the books Corporate
Espionage and Through the Eyes of the Enemy. 

 "The military does not exercise good operational security when it comes to
their Web sites ... There's no valid reason for a military unit to have a
Web site," Winkler said. 

 Deputy Defense Secretary John Hamre and the military's Joint Staff have
been checking for Web postings such as building plans, research and
development efforts and "personnel information that could perhaps provide
too much information," said Defense Department spokesman Kenneth Bacon, in
a statement. 

 A more formal, militarywide policy on what should and shouldn't be put on
the Web is in the works, added department spokesman Susan Hansen. 

 Winkler said it is ill-advised to post things such as personnel lists or
commanders' biographies -- which often include family information -- on the
Web. He also recommended against companies posting similar information
about corporate officers. 

 In fact, some companies already restrict the data they post about
personnel and even product pricing -- although the concern is less about
terrorists and more about competitors. 

 "We're in the process now, as I believe many private companies are, of
trying to sort out what the right balance is between providing useful
information and providing more information than is necessary," Bacon said. 

 Copyright (c) 1998 Computerworld, Inc.
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 21:56:06 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Killed by Police? Keep it Secret
Message-ID: <199809200247.TAA12034@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Killed by Police? Keep it Secret
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 10:12:07 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  Rocky Mountain News
http://www.insidedenver.com/news/0919secr1.shtml

Secrecy pushed in killings
by police 

But critics say names of officers should always
be made public 

By Kevin Vaughan
Rocky Mountain News Staff Writer

A move is afoot in Colorado to keep the names of
police officers who shoot people secret.

A Greeley judge this week ruled that the public has no
right to know which officers shot and killed four
people over the past two years.

"That seems like sort of the ultimate double standard
to me, because I can shoot and kill someone in my
house in self-defense, and my name will be open as a
matter of public record," said Chris Cobler, managing
editor of the Greeley Tribune.

The paper had sued the Greeley Police Department,
the Weld County Sheriff's Department and the district
attorney's office to obtain the officers' names.

At least one legislator praised Weld District Judge
Jonathan Hays' Wednesday ruling.

"I am strongly opposed to releasing the names of
those officers that have not been found accountable,
or found guilty, in a shooting," said state Sen. Ken
Arnold, R-Westminster.

Arnold spent 28 years with the Colorado State Patrol
before becoming a lawmaker.

The State Patrol and most other Colorado police
agencies release the names of officers involved in
shootings -- some agencies immediately, others in
weeks or months.

But newspaper editors and the American Civil
Liberties Union worry that the disclosure practice may
soon end because of the ruling.

In Aurora, Police Chief Vern Saint Vincent has
refused to identify two officers who killed a gunman in
a domestic dispute a week ago, citing the same legal
provisions the Greeley judge used.

Saint Vincent said his decision is temporary, and he
plans to identify the officers after investigating threats
against them.

But he may change his mind. He said he expects his
officers to lobby for secrecy and that he'll consider it.

"There simply can't be a right to privacy for someone
with the full authority of a law enforcement officer
who has used deadly force against a citizen," said
Tom Kelley, an attorney for the Colorado Press
Association. "You could make the argument that
anyone accused of a crime has a right to privacy,
which I don't think anyone would take very seriously."

At issue is the interpretation of two state laws
governing the release of public records and
criminal-justice documents. The laws spell out what
the public has a right to see.

Hays ruled that police shootings are not "official
actions" as defined by the Criminal Justice Records
Act. As such, they fall under an area of the law that
allows police and sheriff's departments to withhold
information that is "contrary to the public interest."

Identifying the officers, Hays wrote, "plays no
significant, positive role in the functioning of the
criminal-justice process."

But one of the state's top cops doesn't see it that way.

"I just have this problem with the idea that that should
be a blanket policy," said Pat Ahlstrom, executive
director of the state Department of Public Safety.
"We don't see it that way. They're public officers, and
the act of using force and deadly force is subject to
public scrutiny."

The department oversees the State Patrol and the
Colorado Bureau of Investigation.

A check of other law enforcement agencies in the
Denver area found that all routinely release the names
of officers in shootings.

"There's really no reason for us not to release the
names," said Adams County sheriff's Sgt. Mike
Kercheval.

Different agencies have different rules about when the
names are released. For some, it comes within 24
hours of a shooting. Others wait longer.

Lakewood, for example, withholds the name of an
officer involved in a shooting until the investigation is
finished. 

"It is the same procedure that is afforded any citizen in
Lakewood that is investigated in a shooting," police
spokeswoman Lynn Kimbrough said. "For us, it is not
a matter of 'if.' It is simply a matter of 'when."'

Cobler said the Tribune has no plan to appeal this
week's ruling.

But others said they expect an effort to change it,
either through an appeal or by attempting to change
the laws to make them clearer.

"Let's change the statute," said Mark Silverstein, legal
director of the ACLU of Colorado.

Arnold, however, said he trusts police and
prosecutors to investigate shootings thoroughly.

September 19, 1998 
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 21:56:41 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Hacker editor rides herd on unruly institution
Message-ID: <199809200247.TAA12045@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Hacker editor rides herd on unruly institution
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 11:51:24 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  Fox News - AP

Hacker editor rides herd on unruly institution
 11.01 a.m. ET (1502 GMT) September 19, 1998

 By Chris Allbritton, Associated Press

 SAN FRANCISCO (AP) - The lines of text scrolled off the screen quickly,
but the bleached-blond hacker snatched quick glances at the visitors' log
on his Web page. Lots of visitors using military and government computers.
The hacker, who calls himself Route, said he always gets a kick out of the
feds' visits. He smiled. 

 The FBI, the CIA and the others "wouldn't be doing their job if they
weren't tracking computer information both legitimate and illegitimate,''
Route said. "I guess Phrack falls somewhere in between.'' 

 Phrack is an online publication called a 'zine. It's a digital chimera:
written for hackers but read by law enforcement, too. It's been the subject
of federal prosecution, yet it still operates in the open. Its name
combines "hack'' and "phreak,'' which refers to phone hacking. 

 It's got attitude, technical know-how and in many ways defines today's
hacker scene. It first hit the electronic bulletin boards Nov. 17, 1985,
ages ago in hacker years. 

 To put its longevity in perspective, Phrack came out two years after the
movie "WarGames'' in which actor Matthew Broderick established the cliched
image of the hacker as the lonely kid who altered his grades with a
computer. Phrack predates the World Wide Web by almost a decade. And Phrack
is older than many of its readers, who number about 8,000, said Route, who
refuses to give his real name. 

 Route, 24, doesn't look like the scrawny computer nerd with the
cathode-ray pallor so many think of when the word hacker is mentioned.
Silver earrings dangle from each ear and a bar pierces his tongue. Spidery
tattoos creep down his shoulders and over biceps grown solid with hours of
iron work. 

 Behind his glower lies a keen mind that cuts through computer network
problems like a digital knife, an invaluable skill for his day job at a
computer security firm with Fortune 500 companies for clients. Route
refused to name his company. 

 Phrack's improbable history begins in 1985 when a hacker with the handle
Taran King cobbled together various subversive texts that had been
circulating like Soviet-era samizdat on the archipelago of underground
electronic bulletin boards. It included all sorts of mischief-making: "How
to Pick Master Locks,'' "How to Make an Acetylene Bomb'' and
"School/College Computer Dial-Ups.'' 

 But Phrack found itself the focus of federal prosecution in 1990, when
editor Craig Neidorf, a k a Knight Lightning, was prosecuted by the Chicago
Computer Fraud and Abuse Task Force. His alleged crime? He published a
document in Phrack with certain details of the emergency 911 systems in use
around the country. It had been given to him by another hacker who had
copied it from computers owned by BellSouth, which valued it at almost
$80,000. 

 But the task force wanted to prove the document was more than valuable.
Assistant U.S. Attorney William J. Cook said it put dangerous information
in the hands of hackers. 

 The case fell apart when Neidorf's lawyer proved that more detailed
information about the system had appeared in other publications. You could
order them from phone company technical catalogs for $13. The charges were
dropped. Neidorf's trial was over. 

 If today's Phrack is a bit less confrontational, that's understandable.
Like many of the older hackers, Route is shifting his focus away from
anarchy texts and phone hacking to computer security. Its "how-to'' days
are pretty much over. 

 "Phrack is not meant to be a manual of vulnerabilities,'' he said. 

 As the editor, Route knows that Phrack can still be used for illegal
purposes. "But you can't hold people completely liable for just putting
information out there.'' 

 He said he has had "blatantly illegal stuff'' sent to him. Once, he said
he received the technical specifications for most pager systems used in the
country, complete with how to hack those systems. He didn't publish. 

 "It's a judgment call,'' he said. "I have no intention of running up
against the law or (upsetting) the military.'' 

 But it's almost guaranteed that something gleaned from Phrack will be used
against the computer system of a big and powerful organization or business. 

 "The scene is going to do what the scene is going to do,'' he said. "It's
like any clique in society. You have good people and you have bad people.'' 

                  (c) 1998 Associated Press. All rights reserved.
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 21:44:54 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Hackers-turned-consultants see business boom
Message-ID: <199809200247.TAA12056@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Hackers-turned-consultants see business boom
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 11:53:29 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  Fox News - AP

On guard now, hackers-turned-consultants see business boom
 11.00 a.m. ET (1501 GMT) September 19, 1998

 By Chris Allbritton, Associated Press

 NEW YORK (AP) - The hacker calling himself Mudge pushed his long hair
back, scratched his beard and stared at the computer screen. He knew there
was something wrong with the data traffic he was watching, but what was it? 

 A week earlier, Mudge and his fellow hackers in their hangout known as the
L0pht - pronounced "loft'' - had acquired some software that was supposed
to let computers talk to each other in code. But as Mudge watched the data
he realized someone else was doing the same and maybe even decoding it,
which shouldn't happen. 

 "So you are saying that you're using DES to communicate between the
computers?'' Mudge recalled asking representatives of the software maker.
Yes, they said, they were using DES, a standard encryption method that for
years was considered virtually uncrackable. 

 But this wasn't DES, thought Mudge. It's almost as if... 

 Whoa. He blinked and felt the adrenaline kick in. This wasn't secure at
all. In fact, the encoding was only slightly more complex than the simple
cyphers kids did in grade school - where "A'' is set to 1, "B'' is set to
2, and so on. 

 The company was selling this software as a secure product, charging
customers up to $10,000. And yet, it had a security hole big enough to
waltz through. 

 Instead of exploiting this knowledge, Mudge confronted the company. 

 "You realize there isn't any secure or 'strong' encoding being used in
your communications between the computers, don't you?'' he asked. 

 "Well...'' 

 "And that you claimed you were using DES to encrypt the data,'' he pressed. 

 "That will go in the next revision.'' 

 Mudge is a "real'' hacker - one who used to snoop around the nation's
electronic infrastructure for the sheer love of knowing how it worked. His
kind today are sighted about as often as the timberwolf, and society has
attached to them the same level of legend. 

 Like the wolf, they were once considered a scourge. Law enforcement and
telecommunication companies investigated and arrested many of them during
the late 1980s and early '90s. 

 Today, many elite hackers of the past are making a go at legitimate work,
getting paid big bucks by Fortune 500 companies to explore computer
networks and find the weak spots. 

 And none too soon. The void left by the old hackers has been filled by a
new, more destructive generation. 

 So today, Mudge - who uses a pseudonym like others in the hacker
community, a world where anonymity keeps you out of trouble - wears a white
hat. As part of L0pht, the hacker think tank, he and six comrades hole up
in a South End loft space in Boston and spend their evenings peeling open
software and computer networks to see how they work. 

 When they find vulnerabilities in supposedly secure systems, they publish
their findings on the World Wide Web in hopes of embarrassing the companies
into fixing the problems. A recent example: They posted notice via the
Internet of a problem that makes Lotus Notes vulnerable to malicious hackers. 

 A Lotus spokesman said the company was aware of the flaw but it was
extremely technical and unlikely to affect anyone. 

 The hackers at L0pht have made enemies among industry people, but they
command respect. They were even called to testify before the U.S. Senate
Committee on Governmental Affairs in May. 

 Why do they publish what they find? 

 "If that information doesn't get out,'' Mudge replies, "then only the bad
guys will have it.'' 

 The "bad guys'' are the hacker cliche: secretive teen-age boys lurking
online, stealing credit card numbers, breaking into Pentagon systems, and
generally causing trouble. One of L0pht's members, Kingpin, was just such a
cad when he was younger, extending his online shenanigans to real-world
breaking and entering. Today, L0pht keeps him out of mischief, he said. 

 "We're like midnight basketball for hackers,'' said Weld Pond, another
member. 

 Malicious hacking seems to be on the rise. 

 Nearly two out of three companies reported unauthorized use of their
computer systems in the past year, according to a study by the Computer
Security Institute and the FBI. Another study, from Software AG Americas,
said 7 percent of companies reported a "very serious'' security breach, and
an additional 16 percent reported "worrisome'' breaches. However, 72
percent said the intrusions were relatively minor with no damage. 

 American companies spent almost $6.3 billion on computer security last
year, according to research firm DataQuest. The market is expected to grow
to $13 billion by 2000. 

 Government computers are vulnerable, too. The Defense Department suffered
almost 250,000 hacks in 1995, the General Accounting Office reported. Most
were detected only long after the attack. 

 This is why business booms for good-guy hackers. 

 Jeff Moss, a security expert with Secure Computing Inc., runs a
$995-a-ticket professional conference for network administrators, where
hackers-cum-consultants mingle with military brass and CEOs. 

 "I don't feel like a sellout,'' said Moss, who wouldn't elaborate on his
hacking background. "People used to do this because they were really into
it. Now you can be into it and be paid.'' 

 News reports show why such services are needed: 

 - Earlier this month, hackers struck the Web site of The New York Times,
forcing the company to shutter it for hours. Spokeswoman Nancy Nielsen said
the break-in was being treated as a crime, not a prank. The FBI's computer
crime unit was investigating. 

 - This spring, two California teen-agers were arrested for trying to hack
the Pentagon's computers. Israeli teen Ehud Tenebaum, a k a "The
Analyzer,'' said he mentored the two on how to do it. The two Cloverdale,
Calif., youths pleaded guilty in late July and were placed on probation. 

 - Kevin Mitnick, the only hacker to make the FBI's Ten Most Wanted list,
was arrested in 1995, accused of stealing 20,000 credit card numbers. He
remains in prison. A film called "TakeDown,'' about the electronic
sleuthing that led to Mitnick's capture, is in the works. Comments
protesting Mitnick's prosecution were left during the hack of the New York
Times Web site. 

 - In 1994, Vladimir Levin, a graduate of St. Petersburg Tekhnologichesky
University, allegedly masterminded a Russian hacker gang and stole $10
million from Citibank computers. A year later, he was arrested by Interpol
at Heathrow airport in London. 

 "Lemme tell ya,'' growled Mark Abene one night over Japanese steak
skewers. "Kids these days, they got no respect for their elders.'' 

 Abene, known among fellow hackers as Phiber Optik, should know. He was one
of those no-account kids in the 1980s when he discovered telephones and
computers. For almost 10 years, he wandered freely through the nation's
telephone computer systems and, oh, the things he did and saw. 

 Celebrities' credit reports were his for the taking. Unlimited free phone
calls from pilfered long-distance calling card numbers. Private phone lines
for his buddies, not listed anywhere. And the arcane knowledge of trunk
lines, switches, the entire glory of the network that connected New York
City to the rest of the world. 

 But Abene's ticket to ride was canceled in January 1994, when, at age 22,
he entered Pennsylvania's Schuylkill Prison to begin serving a
year-and-a-day sentence for computer trespassing. The FBI and the Secret
Service described him as a menace. The sentencing judge said Abene, as a
spokesman for the hacking community, would be made an example. 

                  (c) 1998 Associated Press. All rights reserved.
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 21:45:20 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Use of SWAT Teams on the Rise
Message-ID: <199809200247.TAA12067@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Use of SWAT Teams on the Rise
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 12:11:32 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  Charlotte (N.Carolina) Observer
http://www.charlotte.com/observer/local/pub/031225.htm

Published Saturday, September 19, 1998 

SWAT team approach less risky, police say
Use of squads on rise around region, nation

 By LEIGH DYER 
 Staff Writer 

Across the country, police departments are using SWAT teams to deal with
high-risk situations like the Sept. 4 drug raid that ended with a Charlotte
man dead.

Court papers said police were looking for evidence of drug dealing, but
they found no drugs in the Mayfair Avenue home.

Charlotte-Mecklenburg police say the paramilitary-style squad reduces the
risks to officers and the public in dangerous situations. But some critics
say using the SWAT team for search warrants is too heavy-handed.
 
Records show the Charlotte-Mecklenburg team is used sparingly. Last year,
SWAT officers were involved in 14 of the 441 warrants served by
Charlotte-Mecklenburg police. Of 251 warrants executed from January to Aug.
31, SWAT team members served 15.

Of the 29 raids before Charles Irwin Potts' death, one resulted in minor
injuries. Potts' death is the first shooting during a search warrant since
the team organized in 1992.

It's less clear how often the team succeeds in finding what it's after. In
almost every raid, the team reports either an arrest or a seizure of
weapons or drugs. But they don't always seize the goods they were looking for.

The Sept. 4 raid netted three guns and gambling equipment -- but no
evidence of the cocaine dealing an informant told them they'd find.

Maj. Piper Charles, who is in charge of the Charlotte-Mecklenburg team,
said that when the team is used is not based on the likelihood of finding
drugs. Instead, it's based on the likelihood of facing armed resistance.

``The primary purpose is to save lives,'' said Charles. ``A successful
mission is one in which absolutely no one gets hurt.''

More scrutiny

SWAT calls range from negotiation with hostage-takers to quelling riots to
raids for guns, drugs or evidence of other criminal activity. 

The 42-member Charlotte-Mecklenburg Special Weapons and Tactics team uses
special equipment, including heavy body armor and laser-sighted guns. The
duty is part time. Team members are also assigned to other regular patrol
duties.

Nationally, the increased use of SWAT teams has drawn praise from those who
say their tactics are safer than traditional law--enforcement methods. 

But Peter Kraska, a criminology professor at Eastern Kentucky University
who has tracked SWAT teams, said they have a downside.

``Often when you see them in a neighborhood piling out of a vehicle . . .
it gives the community an impression they're kind of under siege,'' he said. 

Regionally, SWAT teams have become more active in counties including
Gaston, Union and Cabarrus in recent years. Sgt. Jeff Eisenhour, commander
of the Gaston County Police SWAT team, said most operations go more
smoothly with such a well-trained team, rather than regular patrol officers.

``The biggest advantage is the training,'' he said. ``Everybody knows what
everyone is doing.''

The Potts shooting has put the methods and policies of the SWAT team under
a microscope, said Charlotte-Mecklenburg's Charles. Those methods include
the use of ``flash-bangs,'' a diversionary device thrown into a room to
stun and distract occupants with a bang and bright lights while SWAT team
members storm in.

``My position is that you're not going to find a safer way to do it,''
Charles said.

As SWAT teams grow in popularity, they have encountered more questions
about their use. In Fitchburg, Mass., west of Boston, civil libertarians
criticized a SWAT team after its members arrested a group of young men in
1993 for lingering on a sidewalk.

And in Louisville, Ky., family members of a man killed in a SWAT raid in
March 1997 sued, challenging the police procedures. The suit alleges that a
flash-bang may have disoriented the man so much he didn't realize he was
pointing his gun at police officers. The suit is pending.

In Charlotte-Mecklenburg, though, officers say the devices may have saved
lives many times, including during a raid on Jan. 22 when a suspect dropped
a gun after a flash-bang went off.

``I have heard that sometimes people are not properly using their SWAT
teams,'' said Roy House, an instructor at Central Piedmont Community
College who conducts regional SWAT training. ``That's a leadership problem.''

House, who is also a reserve member of the Charlotte-Mecklenburg team,
believes the benefits of the teams outweigh any criticism.

``I would think it's better to go in there and be a little heavy-handed
than to go in there and be outnumbered . . . or outgunned,'' he said. 
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 21:56:47 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: IRS, White House above the law? by Joseph Farah
Message-ID: <199809200247.TAA12078@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: Jan 
Subject: IP: IRS, White House above the law? by Joseph Farah
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 19:54:10 -0500
To: Ignition-Point 

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 14:31:36 -0600
From: Robert Huddleston 
Subject: IRS, White House above the law? by Joseph Farah 

between the lines
by Joseph Farah
FRIDAY SEPTEMBER 18, 1998
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/btlines/980918_btl_irs_white_house.html

IRS, White House above the law? 
                   
Last week, we had our first court hearing in our
$10 million lawsuit against White House and
Internal Revenue Service officials we believe
conspired to use their government power to
harass and intimidate my organization, the
Western Journalism Center, for exposing Clinton
administration scandals for the last four years. 

This was a procedural hearing in Sacramento
before U.S. Judge Milton Schwartz, a Carter
appointee, who seemed to be preparing the Justice
Department attorney from Washington and our
counsel from Larry Klayman's Judicial Watch for a
major trial. 

Nevertheless, the government is trying to abort
this trial on the kind of familiar technical grounds
we have come to expect from this administration.
Interestingly, the Justice Department has yet to
dispute the major claims of our case -- that the
center was the victim of a politically motivated
audit designed to squelch our First Amendment
rights. 

The Justice Department is claiming the one-year
statute of limitations expired before we filed the
suit. Not true. By any standard, we filed in plenty
of time. The audit of our organization ended in
May 1997. We were not officially notified until
June of 1997. No tax-exempt organization in its
right mind would sue the IRS during an audit. We
filed the lawsuit in May of 1998 within one year of
the audit being closed. 

The Justice Department is claiming an argument
you've heard before from the administration -- that
there is "no controlling legal authority" and, thus,
no legislative remedy for organizations victimized
by political audits. In other words, the president is
free to use the IRS to go after his "enemies" and
there is no punitive action the victim can take
against him or the agents with whom he conspires.

Next week, the Justice Department attorneys will
be back in U.S. District Court in Sacramento to ask
Judge Schwartz to dismiss the case on these
specious grounds. 

I want to go on record right now as saying that no
matter how the judge rules on this motion, the
Western Journalism Center will not stop in
pressing this matter for adjudication and remedy.
This is a case far too important to the future of this
country and the rule of law to allow it to be dropped. 

Let's review the basic facts. In 1994, the center
began investigating Clinton administration
corruption. By December 1994, memos released to
congressional investigators show that the White
House counsel's office had begun targeting the
center for action of some kind. In 1995, the center
was a major focus of a White House counsel's
office 331-page report called the Communication
Stream of Conspiracy Commerce. I was the only
journalist profiled in this mammoth report
alleging a wide-ranging media conspiracy against
the president. In early 1996, I first began hearing
rumors that my organization was being targeted
by the IRS. Months later, we were notified that we
were under audit and that our tax-exempt status
was under scrutiny because of the nature of our
investigative work into Clinton administration
corruption during an election year. 
When we questioned the IRS agent about his
authority to interfere in our First
Amendment-protected activities, he said: "Look,
this is a political case, and the decision will be
made at the national level." 

We then exposed this blatant abuse of the IRS
against our organization and the pattern of
politically motivated audits against other
non-profits in the pages of the Wall Street Journal.
As a result, Congress began an investigation, and
IRS Commissioner Margaret Milner Richardson
resigned. Ultimately, the agent in charge was
removed from the case, investigated internally by
the IRS and a new agent assigned. The nine-month
audit was then closed within two days. 

We demanded our case file, which the "Taxpayer
Bill of Rights" states is available to any taxpayer
following an audit. It was denied. We then filed a
Freedom of Information Act request for it. Again it
was denied. The IRS stated that the file would be
withheld because it had been through the hands of 
others within the IRS and possibly outside of the
agency and was, thus, protected by "governmental
privilege." 

Having exhausted every available means to
document our growing conviction that we were
targeted for political reasons, we filed suit. 

If you believe, as I do, that this is a monumentally
important case, I ask for your sincere and
unceasing intercessory prayers that justice will be
done. 
                   

                    A daily radio broadcast adaptation of Joseph Farah's
                    commentaries can be heard at http://www.ktkz.com/ 

Joseph Farah  is editor of WorldNetDaily.com 
and executive director of the Western Journalism Center, 
an independent group of investigative reporters. 

 <@{{><   <@{{><   <@{{><   <@{{><   <@{{><   <@{{><   <@{{><

SOCIALIST
 1. socialism
   ( Noun ]
     : social organization based on goverment control of the
production and distribution of goods.
                                *****

*************************************************
"But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet to
warn the people and the sword comes and takes the life of one of them, that
man will be taken away because of his sin, but I will hold the watchman
accountable for his blood."
Ezekiel 33:6 (NIV)
___________________________________________________________
New toll-free hotline to Congress 
Congress is making a new toll-free number available for
citizens who would like to make their voices heard in
Washington.      1-800-504-0031 
Ask for your Congressman office and let him know
what you think.............
---------------------------------------------------------------
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--------------------------------------------------------------
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Become a JPFO member, go to: http://www.jpfo.org/member.htm
There you will see a printable member application, along with
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abiding citizens.
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<@{{><   <@{{><   <@{{><   <@{{><   <@{{><   <@{{><   <@{{><
 ******=========================================*****
"Among the elementary measures the American Soviet government
 will adopt to further the cultural revolution are...
 [a] National Department of Education...the studies will be
 revolutionized, being cleansed of religious, patriotic, and
 other features of the bourgeois ideology. The students will
 be taught the basis of Marxian dialectical materialism,
 internationalism and the general ethics of the
 new Socialist society."
     - William Z. Foster,
       Toward Soviet America, 1932

"...Stage III...would proceed to a point where no state would
have the military power to challenge the progressively 
strengthened U.N. peace force...
The manufacture of armaments would be prohibited...
All other armaments would be destroyed..." 
    -Department of State publication number 7277




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 21:56:03 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: [Spooks] CIA Losing Its Best Operatives
Message-ID: <199809200247.TAA12088@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: Bridget973@aol.com
Subject: IP: [Spooks] CIA Losing Its Best Operatives
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 21:43:13 EDT
To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com

Subject: 
        [Spooks] CIA Losing Its Best Operatives
   Date: 
        Wed, 16 Sep 1998 22:51:13 -0500
   From: 
        Bob Margolis 
     To: 
        Spooks 




WASHINGTON (AP) -- The CIA is pumping money and people into  
recruiting efforts to battle a trend that the agency's departing 
inspector general says has sapped the clandestine service of its 
most experienced hands. 
        Agency officials outlined Tuesday initiatives that CIA Director
George Tenet announced internally last month to increase pay, 
provide hiring bonuses and shorten the waiting time for job offers. 
        ``There are plenty of headhunters out there ready to pounce on  
strong candidates,'' Tenet told agency employees in his 
announcement. ``To delay is to lose.'' 
        The program is intended to combat a problem outlined in an op-ed  
article by outgoing CIA Inspector General Fred Hitz who said the 
CIA's Directorate of Operations, the clandestine spy service, is 
losing its best people amid organizational drift and declining 
morale. 
        ``The picture is not encouraging,'' said Hitz, the CIA's chief  
watchdog from 1990 until this year. Writing in an op-ed article in 
The Washington Post, Hitz said the Directorate of Operations ``has 
been shrinking in size and capability since the end of the Cold 
War.'' 
        A recent study showed departures from the agency due to  
attrition ``involved high-quality officers the agency could not 
afford to lose,'' Hitz wrote. 
        The number of CIA employees is classified, but the Federation of
American Scientists, a Washington-based group that follows 
intelligence matters, estimates it has shrunk from more than 20,000 
to about 16,000 since the Cold War. The clandestine service is 
estimated at several thousand. 
        Agency and congressional officials said the critique may be  
outdated as the CIA pumps new money and energy into recruiting. But 
one knowledgeable congressional staffer said the problem got so bad 
that an entire incoming class of operatives -- perhaps a few dozen 
recruits -- had to be canceled for lack of money. 
        Hitz pointed to the difficulty of recruiting in a booming  
economy and to low morale as a result of ``the lack of a clear 
mission'' at CIA. 
        ``Nobody worth his or her salt is going to join an organization
that has lost faith in itself, is confused about its mission and is 
trapped in the sclerosis of a middle-aged bureaucracy,'' he said. 
        Rep. Porter Goss, R-Fla., chairman of the House Intelligence  
Committee and a former CIA clandestine operative, said an instinct 
to blame the CIA every time a risky intelligence venture fails is 
taking its toll. 
        ``With so many unyielding critics, the CIA has become gun-shy,''
Goss said. 
        Sen. Bob Kerrey, D-Neb., vice chairman of the Senate  
Intelligence Committee, said Hitz has been a leading critic of the 
clandestine service and may himself be partly to blame for low 
morale. Still, Kerrey agreed recruitment is a serious agency 
problem. 
        Sen. Richard Shelby, R-Ala., the committee chairman, said the  
CIA must focus more clearly on defining its mission and outlining 
how it will use field operatives to combat terrorism, weapons 
proliferation and drug trafficking. 
        In recent months, the House and Senate Intelligence Committees  
have pushed for more money for the CIA's so-called human 
intelligence efforts, including its field operatives. 
-=-=-    
                           AP NEWS
               The Associated Press News Service
             Copyright 1998 by The Associated Press
                      All Rights Reserved

---
Submissions should be sent to spooks@qth.net
To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe spooks" to majordomo@qth.net


--
bridget973@aol.com
Black Helicopters on the Horizon:
http://members.xoom.com/bridget973






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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 12:58:04 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Oh my God...
Message-ID: <199809191800.UAA27494@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>And thank you for reminding me to keep my lowly political stuff off of the
>"good" lists....I needed that reminder to keep my filth here on
>"cypherpunks."

Poor little Timmy, still crying boo-hoo because someone dared to set up
another list than his little cypherpunks fiefdom.  He loves to talk about
freedom of association if it means that he doesn't have to be around
"Coloreds".  But he can't stand people setting up a forum to focus more
on cryptography.  What a hypocrite.

> Well, if Ron Brown is put in jail they'll have to dig up the casket
> containing the couple of pounds of what they found of him when his plane
> hit that hillside near Sarajevo a couple of years ago.

Gee, and I thought they'd found possible bullet holes in Ron Brown's head?
Need more than a couple of pounds for that, wouldn't they?




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 13:44:34 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Larry Gilbert, AOLers, and the Hyper-real flamer
Message-ID: <199809191846.UAA31551@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



(Depreciated toad.com address replaced with algebra.com.)

On Sat, 19 Sep 1998 AIMSX@aol.com wrote:

> 
> wow.. you really do think I do all those things - spamming, mailbombing... and
> all that other huh?

No. Actually, we're convinced that you're just a lamer. Usually spamming
and mailbombing goes along with that. 

> You really give me way to much credit, as I only use it for internet access,
> and access to a UNIX machine

You need 100 accounts on the same ISP for that? Your implied claims of
being Internet savvy are pretty suspect considering that you haven't even
figured out how to quote yet. Besides, all having 100 accounts usually
means is that you installed a password sniffer on a university LAN or you
ran crack on a passwd file. 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: lcs Mixmaster Remailer 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 15:58:09 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: IP: School bans `no rules' T-shirt
Message-ID: <19980919210002.13986.qmail@nym.alias.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




This is more evidence of government trying to indoctrinate children. We
have the Pledge of Sheepegience, students encouraged to pressure anyone
who doesn't conform, school uniforms, clear backpacks, metal detectors,
kids being expelled for having asprin, and now students being "free" to
wear anything with a message, so long as it's a government-approved
message. 

On Sat, 19 Sep 1998, Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote:

> From: believer@telepath.com
> Subject: IP: School bans `no rules' T-shirt
> Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 09:25:30 -0500
> To: believer@telepath.com
> 
> Source:  St. Paul, Minnesota Pioneer Planet News
> http://www.pioneerplanet.com/news/wis_docs/010832.htm
> 
> Published: Thursday, September 17, 1998 
> 
> School bans `no rules' T-shirt
> 
> ASSOCIATED PRESS 
> 
>  WAUKESHA, WIS.
> 
> A fifth grader was ordered to turn his T-shirt inside-out because it
> carried the message ``No Rules,'' which the principal said promoted
> disruptive behavior.

What difference does it make? Schools aren't teaching kids to read anyway.
Obviously, they're still learning.

I suggest that we ban all literacy right now! It allows people to read
disruptive texts! Fahrenheit 451 forever! Ra ra ra!

> But the youth's mother said Saratoga Elementary School principal Dale
> Heinen overstepped his bounds and that there was no harm in wearing such
> shirts, which depict cartoon characters and carry the slogan, ``Outta my
> way. No Rules.''

One would think that the fact that it's being worn by a fifth grader, and
that it has cartoon characters on it would tend to make it more of a joke
than anything else.

> 
> Heinen made Cody Wilhelm wear the shirt inside-out so no one could read its
> message.

I guess that the kids of today aren't smart enough to read backwards
either.

> 
> ``School guidelines talk about things that are disruptive and can lead to
> disruption,'' Heinen said. ``If they are portraying that in what they wear
> . . . we don't want kids reflecting that attitude or promoting that type of
> attitude.''

Yes. You only want them to promote attitudes which cover the government
seal of approval.

> Mary Wilhelm said her son's T-shirt was not disruptive and that parents
> should have the right to dress their children with any clothes they want to
> as long as they do not promote sex, drugs, alcohol, tobacco or illegal
> activities. 

Oh, I get it. "Freedom for me, but not for thee." She's basically bitching
because she wasn't given the decision about what rights to abridge.

The funny thing about these people hating sex is that they do it, and if
people don't do it the species dies. The downright sad thing about the
"illegal activities" comment is that just about everything is illegal now,
but she's too stupid to realize it. 

> She said her son went to school last year wearing one of the ``No Rules''
> T-shirts and also wore a T-shirt depicting ``Joe Camel,'' a cartoon
> character formerly used to promote Camel cigarettes. School officials did
> not object, she said.

Wait! I thought Mary Wilhelm said that "parents should have the right to
dress their children with any clothes they want to as long as they do not
promote sex, drugs, alcohol, TOBACCO..."

> ``He should have never worn that Joe Camel shirt, I agree, but that dealt
> with smoking,'' Wilhelm said.

As opposed to "illegal activities." Well, at least as the school claims.

> ``This is different. I don't want to have the principal tell me what I can
> and can't do with my kid.''

But you want to be able to tell everybody else what they can and can't do
with their's.

People like this disgust me. That includes the principal and the mother.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 16:21:40 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Jim Choate wrote:
> 
> nobody@remailer.ch wrote:
> > Subject: Re: Clinton's fake apologies (fwd)
> 
> > Presumably he should lie to protect the state.
> 
> Then don't take the oath:
> 
> To tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
> 
...

> > So lieing per se isn't the problem.
> 
> No, it's the fact that he took an oath to tell the truth and didn't.
> 
> > Murky water
> > for impeachment, methinks.
> 
> Then you don't think very well.
> 

What? To tell a lie is one thing, but if you preface it with "I'm telling the truth",
then that is really really bad? I still think you're drawing a very fine line.

I'm honoured to draw an ad hominem before revealing that I'm on AOL.

-- an anonymous aol32 user. 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Raph Levien 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 23:26:55 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Repost in text: IDEA(tm) weakness
In-Reply-To: <199809200116.DAA28107@replay.com>
Message-ID: <360484E7.11556EA4@acm.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



A quick review reveals that this is clearly another "PGP is broken"
hoax. The author is assuming that IDEA's * operation has a nonuniform
distribution of outputs given a uniform distribution of inputs. Since it
is taken mod 65537 (a prime), this is simply not the case - for constant
x, x * y mod 65537 is a permutation over y. Everything else flows from
this flawed assumption.

The rest of the post is silly as well. "Not tested on real PGP data
because I couldn't find where the IDEA data starts." Very funny, this
info is quite accessible. Also, posting the technique but witholding the
code is ridiculous. If the technique worked, it would get implemented
within hours.

Oh well. It was exciting for a minute or two.

Raph




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 20:46:55 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: CJ Update
Message-ID: <199809200148.VAA28141@camel7.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>From Alia Johnson , CJ's sister, today:

I'm writing to say that CJ has arrived at the Springfield Medical
Referral Center, where he will be held for a month or more (the 
phone says U.S.  Medical Center for Federal Prisoners) for 
"examination". 

Here is the address:  

            Carl E. Johnson
			Register # 05987-196
             U.S. Medical Center for Federal Prisoners
	          P.O. Box 4000
             Springfield, Missouri  65801

Also, to my delight, I received a letter from him today. He sounds okay.

CJ in his letter asks for physical mailing addresses for some of the
cypherpunks (no one specifically) so that he can send you things to 
post since I will be travelling.

[End Alia]

---------

We'll be happy to digitize and/or post any mail from CJ folks want to 
share, anonymous and/or encrypted always welcome:

Fax: 212-799-4003
Vox: 212-873-8700

Snail:

John Young
251 West 89th Steet, Suite 6E
New York, NY 10024

We've put all our PGP keys at: 

   http://jya.com/jya-keys.txt

And a bunch of keys for the wild bunch of Totos:

   http://jya.com/totos-keys.htm






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 14:53:03 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: about hacking win95 passwords
Message-ID: <199809191946.VAA03649@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



David Parkinson wrote:

> 
> hello,
> 
> 	my name is david parkinson
> 
> i have taken a document of an ftp on how to hack win95 passwords
> 
> your email address was on it.  in the part where it says here is a 
> 
> guick hack and then this is what it shows

C source snipped.

> i have no idea what that means and how it can help me hack win95 
> 
> passwords.
> 
> if u could help we with this it would be greatly appreciated

Go to a bookstore and buy an introductory book on C programming. It might
cost as much as $50, but it is more than worth your while if you are
planning on messing with cryptography and cracking like this.

Once you have the book, read it and then try to analyze the source code. 
If you are dealing with and using Windows, you will need a C compiler. 
Cygnus has a free Win32 C compiler out as I understand it, and Microsoft
and Borland both have C compilers out for a few hundred bucks each.

If you are dealing with UNIX, there is tons of source and free development
utilities out there.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 16:44:59 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Toto knows how to make a 0xdeadbeef attack?
Message-ID: <199809192107.WAA25895@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




As a result of my trawl through my cypherpunks archive last week
looking for publically posted private keys by Toto et al, I grepped
out a selection of encrypted messages sent to the list.  I thought I'd
have a go at decrypting these with the selection of passphrases John
Young posted earlier today, in case any were encrypted with the
publically posted keys, or with a conventional encryption key.

I came across this post [1] posted in 5 Sep 97 which contains this
encrypted message, and "challenge" to decrypt it.

Now if you try to decrypt it, it says you need key 0xE6A9C799, the
public key for which is on the key servers.  However keyids are
actually stored as 64 bits, internally to PGP messages, but only the
least significant 32 bits are displayed by PGP normally.  I use
pgpacket to look at things and it gives you all 64 bits, the message
has keyid:

	0xAA33463CE6A9C799

however the key I got off the keyserver [2] has keyid:

	0xAA33063CE6A9C799

which differs by 0x400000000000 or one bit.  That would require
knowing how to create a 0xdeadbeef key or at least use software to do
this, if it is available.

Unless the bit flip is part of the "challenge".  Who knows.

Toto did allude to hacking skills, though largely claimed ignorance.
I wonder if this was feigned, or if there are other Totos who are
doing the key hacks etc.  eg this challenge out of bureau42.ml.org
remailer.

Toto is a one man computer crypto forensics persons full-employment
insurance! -- the amount of stuff posted to the list with various
passwords, keys, etc.  The IRS guys must be either hiring some one who
knows crypto, or are going to be seriously confused at this point.
Then there's the use of S-Tools, they must be going boggle eyed
guessing passphrases for S-Tools for all the images ever posted
anonymously, or pseudonymously to the list.  One wonders almost if
this was his aim.

Any hints Toto(s)?  Firstly I haven't got the private key(s) for
0xAA33[0|4]63CE6A9C799, and secondly, what's the deal with the bit
flips/0xdeadbeef attacks?

My september forward secret key is below [3].  It is authenticated by
my high security key, and 12 days time or so, the private key gets
wiped.

Adam

[1]
======================================================================
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 17:31:53 GMT
From: bureau42 Anonymous Remailer 
Comments: This message did not originate from the Sender address above.
        It was remailed automatically by anonymizing remailer software.
        Please report problems or inappropriate use to the
        remailer administrator at .
Subject: EFF $10,000,0000 Challenge
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Sender: owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Precedence: bulk
X-Mailing-List: cypherpunks@algebra.com
X-List-Admin: ichudov@algebra.com
X-Loop: cypherpunks@algebra.com



The Electronic Forgery Foundation is proud to announce a major 
breakthrough in encryption technology -- Forged Encryption.

We are offering a prize of $10,000,000.00 for anyone who can
correctly decipher the following Forged Encryption message.

-----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0
MessageID: od2CIT3fELE7K6bkIkKGJBj0MPUJ2TT8

hQCMA6ozRjzmqceZAQQAh02x0Dxer5vzZiSJ+v7bnMZQdgp425z5OH0NF/f/mXXc
vInw+UsuTXqWNEV5rEQKYjU3qHoe6suCz5f9hEEnOIBacsD28pYU4ahkGOCTuTY6
N3xKrtDRqLPInB8PY7Kfd56jjQsVVRKmJBwXqHbPax4YyUB6ZbKKvSPiuUsAAQSl
BAH3CFNKcmYjf+VtpjAVOpDNM/PMm1e6m33rZ01Sq6pXC0TTabCf7hkWscet0PCL
VX0l1Zw5IKaFqo+pZ3EICRMF6HQrc30G7L9TFeKr//3YsO3/bC4VBgNQHA0qf2nD
ldxAsTGPlRthBTxrzE0LjeOKi/pQOLXQMPQUwEIaL9rncjFgniplFoL6Nj0guJvW
VvS+gxth8hpeWss7WlFFioV0vShsS/lahA+eg/9nVy8ken8pr4m484w2vwoiSdce
CarVigVaRh6tCgh0jub7CHuDFg==
=Q9+G
-----END PGP MESSAGE-----

The EFF doesn't have a copy of the correct answer locked away in
a secret underground cave in Tibet, for verification, because
the above Forged Encryption message is just a bunch of crap we
typed in pretty much at random.

Does the government want to keep your private key in escrow? Give
them a copy of your EFF private key.
Hell, give them _two_ copies, in case one is corrupted.{;>) Smile
when you give them to the government agent. Ask him how his day
has been. Offer him some coffe, and ask about his family. Tell 
him you will send him a Christmas card with another copy of your
EFF private key, just in case the government misplaces the copies
you gave them.
Put your hand over your heart, salute the flag, and sing "God Bless
America" as the government agent leaves. Then fart.

Use the EFF Forged Encryption sofware regularly, to send messages
with Subject:'s like "The Plot Against the PREZ," "Confirmation of
the date of our armed assault," "The Nuke has arrived."
Keep a copy of your EFF Forged Encryption secret key in a directory
named "Off the Pigs." 
Most importantly, never reveal in your private email to others that
you are a deaf, dumb and blind quadraplegic who has been homebound
since birth. That way, the outrageous claims that government agents
make against you in their secret deposition for a warrant to kick
in your door and terrorize you will look all the more foolish during
your trial.

We at the Electronic Forgery Foundation realize that some of you wise
guys are thinking that, for $10 million, it is well worth your while
to write a program that will decipher the above message into something
meaningful. Well, knock yourself out, dudes, but if you think that
known forgers couldn't possibly be lying about the $10 million, then
go directly to http://www.clueserver/fucking_idiot, do not pass GO
and do not collect $200.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
  This message is copyrighted under the auspices of the Electronic 
  Forgery Foundation. Any misquoting, misrepresentation, or other
  abuse of this message would be greatly appreciated. Hell, you can
  tell people you wrote it, if you want to. We don't really care.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

[2] (long)keyid 0xAA33063CE6A9C799 (Toto )
-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
Version: 5.0
Comment: PGP Key Server 0.9.3-db2test
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=leOK
-----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----

[3]

Type Bits/KeyID    Date       User ID
pub  2048/86B519BD 1998/09/10 Adam Back  (FS key, Sep 98)

-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
Version: 2.6.3i
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=vpQX
-----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 15:10:01 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Stego-empty hard drives...
Message-ID: <199809192012.WAA05755@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Robert Hettinga wrote:

> At 1:01 AM -0400 on 9/19/98, Anonymous wrote:
> > (Had this been a UK Customs 'inspection' of the contents of the disk, I
> > might have had to explain the half-gig of "noise" I have on the disk.
> > Only, it really is noise. Really.)
> 
> This makes me think of something that I probably missed in the bowels of
> someone's long previous stego posting (um, stego^stego? :-)), how would you
> go about either:
> 
> Stegoing an encrypted partition as "blank" hard drive space without
> actually writing over it unless you wanted to?
> 
> or, even,
> 
> Stegoing an encrypted partition as not even *there* at all?
> 
> 
> Doesn't seem like it would be too hard conceptually (hah!) and, if done,
> might actually defeat such Archie-look-up-the-dress as the British
> customsfolk are wont to do these days.
> 
> Obviously, even if the partition were found, it would look, to sniffer
> programs, as if it were empty, right? :-).

Once they realize people are doing this, they will begin taking hashes or
some other record of the blank space. The next time you are scanned by
customs, they pull the record and compare the previous "blank"  space with
the current "blank" space. If they don't match, you're suspect. 

They still cannot prove that you're carrying hidden data. They ask you if
you know what stego is. They ask you if you have hidden data on your
drive. If you say yes, they demand to see it. If you say no, they say
"Okay, then it should be no problem if we push the wipe button on our
program, should it?" 

If they start doing that they have still won, because now you are not
carrying the data across the border or the data is destroyed as you cross
the border.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 08:14:45 +0800
To: Ron Rivest 
Subject: Re: Questions for Magaziner? // taxing crypto
In-Reply-To: <199809200104.VAA13387@swan>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 9:04 PM -0400 on 9/19/98, Ron Rivest wrote:


> I feel mis-quoted and/or mis-represented in your note (below)
> stating that "Magaziner mirrored Rivest's offer to tax encryption
> products to pay for increased law enforcement technology support".

Okay. Cool. Sorry if I mischaracterized it somehow, I wasn't trying to.

Or was it Diffie who said something like that?

By the way, someone told me that the Crypto "Authors@MIT" talk with you and
Diffie, etc., was on CSPAN recently, so if someone *really* wanted to, they
could go back, see *exactly* what was said, and say here what the idea was,
(and who to attribute it to, of course), that prompted me to make the, um,
offending, comment, they could do so.

Frankly, I was too hyped from telling the FBI guy he didn't matter anymore,
not to mention his dirty look that followed :-), to remember it accurately
enough for scientific attribution.

"The cost of error on a network full of scientists is bandwidth."
 -- Hettinga's Law of Network Noise

Sorry if I mischaracterized what was surely the right thing to say at the
time... :-).

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 17:38:11 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: (fwd) Re: CHALLENGE? Toto/signature attack w. unpublished public key
In-Reply-To: <199809191052.LAA19676@server.eternity.org>
Message-ID: <199809192139.WAA26471@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




[I thought I posted the post Anonymous is replying to to cypherpunks &
cryptography.  He however seems to have followed up to coderpunks.]

Here [1] is a suggestion from Anonymous which sounds technically good,
an improvement over my approach to finding additional keys capable of
signing the message, it shows that quite plausibly one could generate
another key which could have signed the message in question.

Hope Carl Johnson can get a technical expert with enough smarts to
understand the below, and express this if it is necessary.

Adam

[1] Forwarded message from coderpunks:
======================================================================
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 21:48:07 +0200
From: Anonymous 
Comments: This message did not originate from the Sender address above.
	It was remailed automatically by anonymizing remailer software.
	Please report problems or inappropriate use to the
	remailer administrator at .
Subject: Re: CHALLENGE? Toto/signature attack w. unpublished public key
To: coderpunks@toad.com
Sender: owner-coderpunks@toad.com
Precedence: bulk

A very interesting problem...

Adam Back writes:

> This post discusses the possibility of generating a RSA public key n,
> and e given a signature s on a message m creating using an unknown
> (unpublished) n and e.  A message and signature whose validity has
> some bearing on a current IRS investigation is given as a target for
> an attack if such an attack is feasible.
> [...]
> So next we would like to solve:
> 
>         s ^ e mod n = m
> 
> or in other words find e, k and n st:
> 
>         s ^ e - m = k * n

In addition it has to be that n is the right length based on the "s"
padding.  This limits it to an 8 bit range, in this case 1024-1031 bits.

There are two approaches here.  First, the one you are doing: try
different e values and factor s^e - m until you find one which looks
like it could be a plausible k * n.  The problem is that n is supposed
to be the product of two large primes, and if it is, you won't be able
to factor it.  So you might be able to create a public key which looks
reasonable, but you can't create a private key which does, one which is
a multiple of two large primes.  If you make n be a product of a bunch
of small primes, so that you can make signatures with it, then a third
party can detect this and know it is bogus.

Also, this approach won't match the keyid of the original signature.

Another approach is to generate an n such that the discrete logarithm
is solvable mod n.  Then you can solve for e in s^e = m mod n, with
the base of the discrete log being s.  Doing this you can match the
keyid and size of n without too much difficulty.

Unfortunately e will not be small; it will be about the same size as n.
There are one or two keys on the public keyring which have large e's,
apparently generated by hacked versions of pgp.  Some people feel
safer with random e than a small e.  So this could perhaps be accepted.
(OTOH given two keys that both sign the same message, one with a small
e and one with a large one, it is obvious that the first is the legit
one and the second is the cloned one.)

If you know the factorization of the size of the exponentiation group mod
n, and all the factors are small enough, you can solve the discrete log
problem mod n.  You solve the discrete log separately for each factor
and then combine the results.  With an RSA modulus, the group order is
LCM(p-1,q-1), or equivalently (p-1)(q-1)/GCD(p-1,q-1).  If you were able
to solve discrete logs mod p-1 and q-1 then you could solve discrete
logs mod n.

Unfortunately with a 1024 bit RSA modulus it is not going to be
feasible to solve 512 bit discrete logs using a reasonable amount
of effort.  However by using more factors in the RSA modulus it should
become practical.  The number of factors needed will depend on how much
resources you have to work on the discrete log.

Once you have your n and e you can sign other messages with the key.
The n looks OK from outside because the fact that it has more than two
factors is not detectable, as long as its factors are not too small.
Actually there may be a way of distinguishing n's with two factors from
n's with more, check into this.

Also check into whether n's of this form can be factored via a p-1
factoring attack.  It may be that making the discrete log easy also makes
the modulus factorable.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Jean-Francois Avon" 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 22:21:01 +0800
To: "Bowman  Karen" 
Subject: Genocide    WAS: Political purges and Bill C-68
Message-ID: <199809200301.XAA12070@cti06.citenet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Forwarded from the Canadian Firearms Digest  V2 #596, Sat Sept 19, 1998

Thank you, principal@connect.ab.ca for your enlightening commentary. Since you posted it on a public list, I took the permission to re-post it to the original list.

Highest regards.

Jean-Francois Avon

--------------------------- your letter -----------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 15:52:46 -0600
From: principal@connect.ab.ca
Subject: genocide

************** Beginning of Quote **********************
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 14:10:44 -0600
From: "Jean-Francois Avon" 
Subject: Political purges and Bill C-68

Hi to all of you. I know most of you personally, except for the posts to 
mailing lists and public organisms.

- - ------------------ beginning of letter ---------------
Yesterday night, around 2am, I was unable to sleep and surfing the TV 
channels up until I fell on a movie on the ShowCase channel. This channel 
is devoted to repertoire cinema and less mainstream movies.

As I flick to this channel, I see something I can't take my eyes off for 
it's overwhelming revolting topic: a bunch of corpses are on a dolly, each 
of one being tied by the feet to a crane cable and quickly, efficiently 
taken away to a big heap of corpses.

***************** End of Quote **************************

I was in Rwanda during the latter part of the genocide and during the period
immediately following the Revolution. I concur with Mr. Avon. I have seen
the heaps of corpses. The deaths of these people is tragic and firearms
owners and free men and women should know what can happen if we allow
ourselves to be cowed by government.

It is worthwhile noting that contrary to the lies spewed by anti firearms
groups firearms do not kill people. Rarely were the people of Rwanda killed
by gunfire. They were killed in the tens of thousands with clubs and
machetes. Why did these people go to there deaths like sheep to the
slaughter? In my opinion they were so accustomed to unquestioning compliance
that even in the face of death they would not rise up and fight. At the
dozens of execution sites I encountered there were only two occasions where
I saw evidence of gunfire. This was in the form of shotgun casings. I
point this out because I questioned survivors about the procedures used by
the government forces to round up and execute the mass numbers of people we
are talking about here.

Consistently, I was told that the government forces, with the assistance of
collaborators, would either threaten the village leaders or convince them
that they would be spared if they complied. They then moved the group
en-mass to a collection point. At this time the villagers still complied
with the butchers. Once a sufficient number of people were collected they
would be slaughtered. The ratio of killers to victims would be quite small
so if they had risen up as a group there could have been mass escape. This
did not happen. There were exceptions . . . this is where the shotgun
shells come in. There would be a couple of government soldiers with guns to
cut down anyone that fled. 

In the Amahoro stadium in Kigali the bodies were piled one on top of
another. Approx. 25,000 Rwandans were slaughtered there over a period of
just a few days. In a small church and grounds on the road North from
Cyangugu another 10,000 where slaughtered, hacked and bludgeoned to death. 

Of all the sensory overloads I experienced, one of the most memorable was
that of a school in a village near the Eastern town of Byumba. The men and
women were separated, which was fairly common, and then slaughtered. As
usual they were not JUST killed but were hacked to pieces. Limbs were often
chopped off first, brutal torture and emasculation was common before a
merciful death was delivered by a fatal blow or machete wound. 

One of the dead was a young woman, her skull had been crushed with a club,
upon examination of the body I saw that she still clutched her infant child
to her chest. The skull of the child too was crushed. Drunk on the
absolute power given to them by the government the soldiers and Intehamwe
collaborators became blood thirsty fiends capable of killing a baby in such
a brutal manner. (there were worse things but this has imprinted on my
brain)

In the center of the hollow square arrangement of huts were 2 twelve gauge
casings . . . someone had tried to escape!

There may be those who don't feel this information is topical or appropriate
for the Digest as it is not directly a firearm issue. I believe there are
some lessons.

1. Never have blind trust in the government when it comes to your or your
loved ones life(a la Hep C).
2. There will always be collaborators, help your neighbor but never trust
them completely.
3. Alone we are vulnerable, it is only through a unified group that you
stand a chance against oppression.
4. To find out what a man is, give him power.
5. To murder masses, the mass murder does not need a specific tool.
6. Police and soldiers should never be the only ones with guns.

(My credo, re-enforced by my experiences), As a free man I will not die on
my knees.

I submitted a quote to the list some months back. If the moderator will
indulge me I would like to submit it again.

"War is an ugly thing but not the ugliest of things; the decayed and
degraded state of moral and patriotic feelings which thinks that nothing is
worth war is much worse. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to
fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a
miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so
by the exertions of better men than himself." - John Stuart Mill




Jean-Francois Avon, B.Sc. Physics, Montreal, Canada
  DePompadour, Sociétéd'Importation Ltée
     Limoges fine porcelain and french crystal
  JFA Technologies, R&D physicists & engineers
     Instrumentation & control, LabView programming
PGP keys: http://bs.mit.edu:8001/pks-toplev.html
PGP ID:C58ADD0D:529645E8205A8A5E F87CC86FAEFEF891 
PGP ID:5B51964D:152ACCBCD4A481B0 254011193237822C 







Jean-Francois Avon, B.Sc. Physics, Montreal, Canada
  DePompadour, Société d'Importation Ltée
     Limoges fine porcelain and french crystal
  JFA Technologies, R&D physicists & engineers
     Instrumentation & control, LabView programming
PGP keys: http://bs.mit.edu:8001/pks-toplev.html
PGP ID:C58ADD0D:529645E8205A8A5E F87CC86FAEFEF891 
PGP ID:5B51964D:152ACCBCD4A481B0 254011193237822C


From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 22:25:32 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Clinton's fake apologies (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809200349.WAA12524@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From adam@rpini.com Sat Sep 19 22:43:16 1998
> Date: 20 Sep 1998 03:24:35 -0000
> From: Anonymous 
> Subject: Re: Clinton's fake apologies (fwd)

> I agree it's bad. I agree it undermines the justice system a little bit.
> But, ... impeachment?

If you can't trust your elected officials to live up to their word, in other
words if they will lie under oath on something this immaterial then how do
you trust him to live up to the oath he took when he took office?

He asked, wasn't drafted, to have the peoples trust placed in him and then
he reniged.

> You're going after Al Capone
> for tax evasion.

Did Al Capone evade taxes? If so then what's your point?

 You want to get him because he's a Bad Person not because of
> the particular crime. This is ironic, because his crimes against our basic
> rights were committed while pursuing Bad People, but it is also hypocritical.

Not at all, it simply recognizes that any public official with a record of
lying under oath is not fit to hold office.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 18:06:51 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Clinton's fake apologies (fwd)
Message-ID: <19980919231520.21440.qmail@hades.rpini.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On 19 Sep 1998, Anonymous wrote:

> > nobody@remailer.ch wrote:
> > > Subject: Re: Clinton's fake apologies (fwd)
> > 
> > > Presumably he should lie to protect the state.
> > 
> > Then don't take the oath:
> > 
> > To tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
> > 
> ...
> 
> > > So lieing per se isn't the problem.
> > 
> > No, it's the fact that he took an oath to tell the truth and didn't.
> > 
> > > Murky water
> > > for impeachment, methinks.
> > 
> > Then you don't think very well.
> > 
> 
> What? To tell a lie is one thing, but if you preface it with "I'm telling the truth",
> then that is really really bad? I still think you're drawing a very fine line.

Well, kind of. If some public figure comes up before the nation and says
quietly "I did not have sex with Brenda the Barber," that's one thing. 

If the same public figure goes under oath and then lies, it's another. In
the first case, he's exercising freedom of speech, though there could be
some argument as to whether somebody in a public office has the right to
lie like that. In the second case, he's trying to throw a wrench in the
justice system. It wouldn't be as bad if somebody like Jim or I lied under
oath, but this guy is the chief executive of the United States. He's
basically Top Cop, and his administration doesn't hesitate to press
charges against people who commit all sorts of victimless crimes.

> I'm honoured to draw an ad hominem before revealing that I'm on AOL.
> 
> -- an anonymous aol32 user. 

Actually, the amazing thing is that you're from AOL. You're coherent, you
quote, and you know how to use a remailer. One in a million. ;)




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 16:29:30 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: A question from Seattle
Message-ID: <199809192123.XAA11533@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Sat, 19 Sep 1998, Thompson, Christopher W NWS
 sent to the Cypherpunks
list, a haven for the freedom loving, alot of cryptographers, and those of
non-Freeh thinking: 

> 
> hey,  I'm a 28 year old living in Seattle and I've been having quite the
> fantasy of watching and or participating in father/son activities...or big
> brother and little brother interaction.  Do you have any suggestions
> where/who I might contact in the Seattle metro area?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 

You can start with your CO and the FBI. I'm forwarding this to them for
your convenience.

It's all part of the service.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 17:38:04 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: CHALLENGE? Toto/signature attack w. unpublished public key
In-Reply-To: <199809191948.VAA03878@replay.com>
Message-ID: <199809192228.XAA26533@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Anonymous writes:

> > So next we would like to solve:
> > 
> >         s ^ e mod n = m
> > 
> > or in other words find e, k and n st:
> > 
> >         s ^ e - m = k * n
> 
> In addition it has to be that n is the right length based on the "s"
> padding.  This limits it to an 8 bit range, in this case 1024-1031
> bits.

The constraint I gave was that log(n) = 1024.  Bear in mind that the
msbyte of s = 0x08, so we know that n > s, and I think we know that n
< 2^1024 also based on the s padding from the signature. So based on
this n would be in the range 1020 - 1024 bits, right?

> If you make n be a product of a bunch of small primes, so that you
> can make signatures with it, then a third party can detect this and
> know it is bogus.

He has to factor your n to determine that it is bogus though?  This
would imply that he had more compute than you do.  (Not unreasonable
threat model mind).

> Also, this approach won't match the keyid of the original signature.

Agree.  Weak counterpoint is that the keyid is not authenticated,
though if IRS have a key, they know it's keyid, and if that keyid is
the one posted (unauthenticated inside the armor 0xCE56A4072541C535),
this tips the probability of authorship towards the key they have.

This though is perhaps not incontroverible proof, if one posits that
Toto or unknown others were trying to create a complicated mess for
people to confuse themselves analysing.  

Evidence suggests that this was/is the case: there are other messages,
for example one with a signature with what is perhaps a 0xdeadbeef
attack against a key on the keyservers, with the same 32 bit keyid,
but a 64 bit key id differing by 1 bit.  Another key which almost but
not quite makes sense to PGP (a few bits twiddled).  Plus lots of
still undecrypted encrypted messages posted to the list, plus possibly
stegoed images posted (one image was posted together with a password
which was also publically posted together with instructions for
recovering using S-TOOLS4.ZIP (a stego package for windows), and lots
of other anonymously and pseudonymously posted images.)

(One of the encrypted keys which passphrases were forwarded to the
list for just today had been posted to the list over a year ago --
Carl Johnson couldn't have posted the passphrase because he is
incarcerated).

> Another approach is to generate an n such that the discrete logarithm
> is solvable mod n.  Then you can solve for e in s^e = m mod n, with
> the base of the discrete log being s.  Doing this you can match the
> keyid and size of n without too much difficulty.

Yes!  Excellent.  This construct (discrete logs over composite modulus
to allow the same operation) is used by the identity based crypto
people.  The trap door is not that good, because 512 bit discrete logs
are as you suggest rather expensive to compute.

> Unfortunately e will not be small; it will be about the same size as n.
> There are one or two keys on the public keyring which have large e's,
> apparently generated by hacked versions of pgp.  Some people feel
> safer with random e than a small e.  So this could perhaps be accepted.

It's not a hacked version of PGP, I've generated such keys myself
also: it is just a lesser documented feature of pgp2.x, (pgp -kg 1024
768) would give you a 1024 bit n and a 768 bit e).

> (OTOH given two keys that both sign the same message, one with a small
> e and one with a large one, it is obvious that the first is the legit
> one and the second is the cloned one.)

Not so obvious with the other key tinkering which has been going on
here.  It seems likely that Toto et al were purposefully trying to sow
confusion, and seem to delight in leaving little clues to people
trying to understand it looks like this strategy has been operational
for over a year now (some of the encrypted messages which passphrases
were forwarded to the list for just today had been posted to the list
over a year ago -- Carl Johnson couldn't have posted the passphrase
because he is incarcerated).

> Unfortunately with a 1024 bit RSA modulus it is not going to be
> feasible to solve 512 bit discrete logs using a reasonable amount
> of effort.  However by using more factors in the RSA modulus it should
> become practical.  The number of factors needed will depend on how much
> resources you have to work on the discrete log.

Resources available: one low end pentium based linux PC? :-) Just that
the attack is clearly feasible is interesting though a demonstration
would be perhaps more convincing to less technically aware IRS people.
The biggest resource overhead is implementing that lot though, unless
there exist packages or libraries which already do most of it for you.

> Once you have your n and e you can sign other messages with the key.
> The n looks OK from outside because the fact that it has more than two
> factors is not detectable, as long as its factors are not too small.
> Actually there may be a way of distinguishing n's with two factors from
> n's with more, check into this.
> 
> Also check into whether n's of this form can be factored via a p-1
> factoring attack.  It may be that making the discrete log easy also makes
> the modulus factorable.

I think the answer to that is yes.

In connection with previous discussions of implementing forward
secrecy using identity based crypto (search archives for cypherpunks /
coderpunks /cryptography for posts with

Subject: non-interactive forward secrecy / identity based crypto

) another Anonymous describes some of the identity based crypto papers
on this topic, which suggests another method of being able to compute
discrete logs mod composite n.

: Maurer describes an alternative set of parameters as well.  Rather than
: choosing small primes for the discrete logs, larger primes with a
: special form are used which make the problem easy.  This is based on the
: Pohlig-Hellman discrete log algorithm, which applies when p-1 has all small
: factors.  The problem is that there also exists a p-1 factoring algorithm
: which works when p-1 has all small factors.  However the former algorithm
: costs the square root of the size of the factors, while the later takes
: work proportional to the size of the factors themselves.  This gives a
: window where the discrete log can be done but the factoring will fail.
: 
: For this embodiment, Maurer suggests a modulus which is the product of
: two primes, each 100 digits (333 bits) in length.  This will produce
: a 666 bit modulus.  Have each of the primes be such that (p-1)/2 is a
: product of several 13-15 digit (43-50 bit) primes.

So it could be done, I think, and in such a way that you have lower
cpu overhead than the attacker trying to prove one key more likely
than the other.

Adam




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Brian B. Riley" 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 22:52:03 +0800
To: "Jim Choate" 
Subject: Re: Clinton's fake apologies (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809200353.XAA17661@mx01.together.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On 9/19/98 11:24 PM, Anonymous (nobody@remailer.ch)  passed this wisdom:

>
>In reply to my suggestion that lieing under oath isn't
>a very good reason for impeachment,  
>
>Jim Choate  wrote:
>> Of course it's different if you preface your lie with "I swear to tell the
>> truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth".
>> 
>> The oath is voluntary and therefore if broken no claim for duress, only
>> intentional misdirection, can explain such actions.
>
>echoed by nobody@remailer.ch who wrote:
>> ...If some public figure ... goes under oath and then lies, ...
>> he's trying to throw a wrench in the
>> justice system. It wouldn't be as bad if somebody like Jim or I lied under
>> oath, but this guy is the chief executive of the United States. He's
>> basically Top Cop, and his administration doesn't hesitate to press
>> charges against people who commit all sorts of victimless crimes.
>> 
>
>I agree it's bad. I agree it undermines the justice system a little bit.
>But, ... impeachment?
>
>You're not charging him with murder (eg WACO), attacking the 1st 
>ammendment (CDA),
>the 4th (SSN on driver's licences), the 5th (GAK). You're going after Al 
>Capone
>for tax evasion. You want to get him because he's a Bad Person not because of
>the particular crime. This is ironic, because his crimes against our basic
>rights were committed while pursuing Bad People, but it is also hypocritical.
>

They couldn't get Capone any other way but on Income Tax Evasion ... we 
all know how much more guilty of how many more heinous crimes he was ... 
but we took him the only way we could ... Clinton is no different ... it 
would be grand and so fitting if we could impeach himt for having 
committed aggravated assault upon the Bill of Rights, but if we have to 
get him because he can't keep his pecker zipped up then so be it ... as 
with case of Al Capone, this country will also be richer without William 
Jefferson (Thomas must be rolling in his grave!) Klinton!




Brian B. Riley --> http://members.macconnect.com/~brianbr
 For PGP Keys  

 "When hell freezes over, grab your ice skates."
      -- Mark Johnson





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 17:20:56 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: IDEA(tm) weakness?
Message-ID: <199809192204.AAA15005@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Title: Privacy Page








Privacy



 

How private is your electronic communication ?


  [taken from the PGP FAQ]
  You should encrypt your e-mail for the same reason that you don't write
  all of your correspondence on the back of a post card. E-mail is actually far less secure
  than the postal system. With the post office, you at least put your letter inside an
  envelope to hide it from casual snooping. Take a look at the header area of any e-mail
  message that you receive and you will see that it has passed through a number of nodes on
  its way to you. Every one of these nodes presents the opportunity for snooping. 
  Encryption in no way should imply illegal activity. It is simply intended
  to keep personal thoughts personal. 


Do you trust your mail servers/gateways/virtual
redirects ?


  With the increasing use of virtual email accounts which allow you to keep the same
  email address no matter if you change jobs, ISPs, etc, the opportunity for snooping
  increases. 


Is PGP secure ?


  PGP uses acombination of IDEA, RSA and MD5. RSA is used to allow the transfer of
  session keys and MD5 is used to generate a unique message digest from the passphrase for
  generating the IDEA key and signatures. IDEA is the core algorithm used to encrypt the
  actual message. Thus the security of IDEA is also means the security of PGP .


Is IDEA secure ?


  The IDEA algorithm (patented by ASCOM) is the core algorithmm
  used in PGP. It is based on a rotating 128 bit key split into 16 bit segments. The
  algorthm converts 64 bits of data at a time using the following operations '+', '^'
  (exclusive-or) and '*'.
  The formulas are :
  64 bit data => D1, D2, D3 and D4 (all 16 bits)
  => K1,K2,K3....rotating extra 25 bits after all 128 bits are
  used
  There are 2 phases in each round and 8 rounds in total + 1 final
  round of just phase 1.
  Phase 1:
  
    R1 = D1 * K1
    R2 = D2 + K2
    R3 = D3 + K3
    R4 = D4 * K4
  
  Phase 2:
  
    E1 = R1 xor (((R2 xor R4) + ((R3 xor R1) * K5)) * K6)
    E2 = R3 xor (((R2 xor R4) + ((R3 xor R1) * K5)) * K6)
    E3 = R2 xor ((((R2 xor R4) + ((R3 xor R1) * K5)) * K6) + ((R3 xor R1) * K5))
    E4 = R4 xor ((((R2 xor R4) + ((R3 xor R1) * K5)) * K6) + ((R3 xor R1) * K5))
    
  
  Given a large random data message (ie 1000 samples - 64*1000 =
  8Kb file). The distribution of the above operations can be used to break the key. ie both
  the '+' and the '^' operations give an even distribution but the '*' operator gives a
  biased distribution towards '0'.
  
    Distribution (where '*' has a bias towards 1 of a) 
    R1 = a
    R2 = even
    R3 = even
    R4 = a
    (a5 & a6 are the bias for K5 and K6)
    E1 = (bias a5) * (bias a6)
    E2 = (bias a5) * (bias a6)
    E3 = (bias a5) - (2 * (bias a5) * (bias a5) * (bias a6)) + ((bias
    a5) * (bias a6))
    
      = (bias a5) * (1 + (bias a6) - (2*(bias a5)*(bias a6))) 
    
    E4 = (bias a5) - (2 * (bias a5) * (bias a5) * (bias a6)) + ((bias
    a5) * (bias a6))
    
      = (bias a5) * (1 + (bias a6) - (2*(bias a5)*(bias a6))) 
    
    Also as the '*' operator is biased towards its own bit for the
    result '1' - approx (60% to 100% depending on bit position). [Working from the low bit
    upwards will provide an even greater approximation as then you would have the relevant Key
    bits against a random data. ie for 1st bit, it is 100% dependant on the bit for a '1',...]
    eg using a simple 3x3 matrix on second bit, gives (only
    demonstrating the ratio):
         if K bit is 1 => bias a ~ (2/8), if K
    bit is 0 => bias a ~(1/8) 
    ==> We can determine when :
    
      K5=0 and K6=0 as (bias a5) and (bias a6) will be at their highest
      
        ==> E1 & E2 are highest
      
      K5=1 and K6=1 as (bias a5) and (bias a6) are at their lowest
      
        ==> E1 & E2 are Lowest 
      
      To determine between K5=0,K6=1 and K5=1,K6=0. 
      
        K5 can be determined by check with E3 & E4 as they are both
        equal to :
        (bias a5) * (1 + (bias a6) - (2*(bias a5)*(bias a6)))  =>
        directly relate to (bias a5) => K5
      
      
        =>When K5=0, both E3 & E4 will be low.
        => When K5=1, both E3 & E4 will be high.
      
       
    
  
  The Key rotation start bits are :
  
    
      Phase
      K1
      K2
      K3
      K4
      K5
      K6
    
    
      1
      0
      16
      32
      48
      64
      80
    
    
      2
      96
      112
      25
      41
      57
      73
    
    
      3
      89
      105
      121
      9
      50
      66
    
    
      4
      82
      98
      114
      2
      18
      34
    
    
      5
      75
      91
      107
      123
      11
      27
    
    
      6
      43
      59
      100
      116
      4
      20
    
    
      7
      36
      52
      68
      84
      125
      13
    
    
      8
      29
      45
      61
      77
      93
      109
    
    
      final
      22
      38
      54
      70
      n/a
      n/a
    
  
   
  Working backwards with these distributions you can deduce the
  key. 
  ie work out K5 (93..108) and K6 (109..124) from its distribution
  pattern [using just the distributions for E2 & E3, as E1 & E4 have had the '*'
  operation applied in the final phase], then with K5 and K6 work out K1..K4 (22..85). You
  now have the key values for K1 to K6 !!!. Modify the Samples such they are back a phase
  and repeat (ie for each sample work backwards using known K1..K6 to find the E1..4
  values). 
  MAJOR ASSUMPTION : Assume that a large random sample provides a
  close to  even distribution at the end of each phase (For E2 & E3) such that the
  bias (ie a5 & a6) used to determine E2 and E3 are the only significant factors. 
  Reasoning : If the distribution is not even, then it is very much
  easier to break (ie only the key values can cause the change in distribution pattern =>
  know the pattern, know the key).
  I have developed a program which does just this (NOTE: not tested
  with real PGP data, as I have not had the time to investigate how the PGP file is
  structured, ie where the IDEA code starts and ends).
  It is available under a copyleft license similar to GNU. The Java Source code can be found at
  :
  [Application will not
  be released until beginning of 1999 when enough people are
  aware of the potential problem, and solutions are widely available - thus the threat to
  the general users privacy is kept to a minimal. Software houses which would like a delay
  in the release of this application so as to provide a solution should email: SGOSHA33@mailexcite.com with their request]
   


What can we do ?


  The above crack works because there is a large sample involved.
  If however you pre-encrypted the file such that you got your pre-encrypted file and a key
  file, where this key file is small and contains only the key required to open the
  pre-encrypt file. You then PGP the two files, this would make it much harder to break as
  the key file cannot be broken from the sampling technique descibed above.
  I have developed an application which does just that. It is
  available under a copyleft license similar to GNU. The Java source code can be found
  here : 
  kiss.zip



  To run the application you will need Java installed on your
  machine. Place the files in a directory named KISS. The command line is :
  
    java KISS.kiss e 
                - encrypt
    java KISS.kiss d 
                - decrypt (do not add
    the kiss extension to the filename)
  



  After encryption you will get 2 files. The '.kiss' file is the
  encrypted file and the '.lips' file contains the key used to encrypt the file. You should
  then encrypt both files with PGP.


 

What is in the pipeline for the future ?


  Task 1
  The above 'kiss' pre-encryption is not 100% safe from non-bruteforce cracking !! 
  As the majority of files encrypted are text messages which are based mainly on the
  characters 'a' to 'z' thus the Ascii codes of the characters are of the form  
  011xxxxx. From this you can see that the rotating distribution as used above will tend
  toward '1'. Thus with enough samples they can deduce the key with the simple equation.
  
    KeyValue xor 1 = CommonValue ==> KeyValue = !CommonValue
  
  To prevent this my next application (codename Stable) will be a stabiliser program
  which will ensure that the distribution of the data has an even distribution.
  Target Release Date : 30/9/98.
  Task 2
  The integration of both 'kiss' and 'stable'.
  Target Release Date : 15/10/98.
  Task 3
  Port of both kiss and stable to C/C++ (for speed and also for Task 4). [Wrote Kiss and
  Stable in Java to test the speed of Java and also how it handled bit manipulation
  operations].
  Target Release Date : 31/10/98.
  Task 4
  Integration with PGP to provide uses with a much easier encryption method.



  Target Release Date : 31/11/98.


Author : SGOSHA33

Return to Albert's Home Page.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "eGroups.com Help" 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 21:44:01 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Please Verify to Complete Your eGroups.com Registration
Message-ID: <19980920024852.8835.qmail@findmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Thank you for requesting an eGroups.com account.  

To complete your registration, you MUST ENTER the following 
number into the Web form at 
http://www.egroups.com/register?email=cypherpunks%40cyberpass.net&vid=22118666
(equivalent to the form on your browser). 

Number: 22118666

This step ensures that only you can control your e-mail 
subscriptions.   

If you have any questions, please visit 
http://www.egroups.com/info/help.html

Thanks!

Sincerely,

The eGroups.com Team




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 20:13:53 +0800
To: coderpunks@toad.com
Subject: Repost in text: IDEA(tm) weakness
Message-ID: <199809200116.DAA28107@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




                                  [INLINE]
   
                                  Privacy
                                      
                                  [INLINE]
   
   
   How private is your electronic communication ?
   
     [taken from the PGP FAQ]
     
     You should encrypt your e-mail for the same reason that you don't
     write all of your correspondence on the back of a post card. E-mail
     is actually far less secure than the postal system. With the post
     office, you at least put your letter inside an envelope to hide it
     from casual snooping. Take a look at the header area of any e-mail
     message that you receive and you will see that it has passed
     through a number of nodes on its way to you. Every one of these
     nodes presents the opportunity for snooping.
     
     Encryption in no way should imply illegal activity. It is simply
     intended to keep personal thoughts personal.
     
   Do you trust your mail servers/gateways/virtual redirects ?
   
     With the increasing use of virtual email accounts which allow you
     to keep the same email address no matter if you change jobs, ISPs,
     etc, the opportunity for snooping increases.
     
   Is PGP secure ?
   
     PGP uses acombination of IDEA, RSA and MD5. RSA is used to allow
     the transfer of session keys and MD5 is used to generate a unique
     message digest from the passphrase for generating the IDEA key and
     signatures. IDEA is the core algorithm used to encrypt the actual
     message. Thus the security of IDEA is also means the security of
     PGP .
     
   Is IDEA secure ?
   
     The IDEA algorithm (patented by ASCOM) is the core algorithmm used
     in PGP. It is based on a rotating 128 bit key split into 16 bit
     segments. The algorthm converts 64 bits of data at a time using the
     following operations '+', '^' (exclusive-or) and '*'.
     
     The formulas are :
     
     64 bit data => D1, D2, D3 and D4 (all 16 bits)
     
     => K1,K2,K3....rotating extra 25 bits after all 128 bits are used
     
     There are 2 phases in each round and 8 rounds in total + 1 final
     round of just phase 1.
     
     Phase 1:
     
     R1 = D1 * K1
     
     R2 = D2 + K2
     
     R3 = D3 + K3
     
     R4 = D4 * K4
     
     Phase 2:
     
     E1 = R1 xor (((R2 xor R4) + ((R3 xor R1) * K5)) * K6)
     E2 = R3 xor (((R2 xor R4) + ((R3 xor R1) * K5)) * K6)
     E3 = R2 xor ((((R2 xor R4) + ((R3 xor R1) * K5)) * K6) + ((R3 xor
     R1) * K5))
     E4 = R4 xor ((((R2 xor R4) + ((R3 xor R1) * K5)) * K6) + ((R3 xor
     R1) * K5))
     
     Given a large random data message (ie 1000 samples - 64*1000 = 8Kb
     file). The distribution of the above operations can be used to
     break the key. ie both the '+' and the '^' operations give an even
     distribution but the '*' operator gives a biased distribution
     towards '0'.
     
     Distribution (where '*' has a bias towards 1 of a)
     
     R1 = a
     
     R2 = even
     
     R3 = even
     
     R4 = a
     
     (a5 & a6 are the bias for K5 and K6)
     
     E1 = (bias a5) * (bias a6)
     
     E2 = (bias a5) * (bias a6)
     
     E3 = (bias a5) - (2 * (bias a5) * (bias a5) * (bias a6)) + ((bias
     a5) * (bias a6))
     
     = (bias a5) * (1 + (bias a6) - (2*(bias a5)*(bias a6)))
     
     E4 = (bias a5) - (2 * (bias a5) * (bias a5) * (bias a6)) + ((bias
     a5) * (bias a6))
     
     = (bias a5) * (1 + (bias a6) - (2*(bias a5)*(bias a6)))
     
     Also as the '*' operator is biased towards its own bit for the
     result '1' - approx (60% to 100% depending on bit position).
     [Working from the low bit upwards will provide an even greater
     approximation as then you would have the relevant Key bits against
     a random data. ie for 1st bit, it is 100% dependant on the bit for
     a '1',...]
     
     eg using a simple 3x3 matrix on second bit, gives (only
     demonstrating the ratio):
     
          if K bit is 1 => bias a ~ (2/8), if K bit is 0 => bias a
     ~(1/8)
     
     ==> We can determine when :
     
     K5=0 and K6=0 as (bias a5) and (bias a6) will be at their highest
     
     ==> E1 & E2 are highest
     
     K5=1 and K6=1 as (bias a5) and (bias a6) are at their lowest
     
     ==> E1 & E2 are Lowest
     
     To determine between K5=0,K6=1 and K5=1,K6=0.
     
     K5 can be determined by check with E3 & E4 as they are both equal
     to :
     
     (bias a5) * (1 + (bias a6) - (2*(bias a5)*(bias a6)))  => directly
     relate to (bias a5) => K5
     
     =>When K5=0, both E3 & E4 will be low.
     
     => When K5=1, both E3 & E4 will be high.
     
     
     The Key rotation start bits are :
     
   Phase K1 K2 K3 K4 K5 K6
   1 0 16 32 48 64 80
   2 96 112 25 41 57 73
   3 89 105 121 9 50 66
   4 82 98 114 2 18 34
   5 75 91 107 123 11 27
   6 43 59 100 116 4 20
   7 36 52 68 84 125 13
   8 29 45 61 77 93 109
   final 22 38 54 70 n/a n/a
   
     
     Working backwards with these distributions you can deduce the key.
     
     ie work out K5 (93..108) and K6 (109..124) from its distribution
     pattern [using just the distributions for E2 & E3, as E1 & E4 have
     had the '*' operation applied in the final phase], then with K5 and
     K6 work out K1..K4 (22..85). You now have the key values for K1 to
     K6 !!!. Modify the Samples such they are back a phase and repeat
     (ie for each sample work backwards using known K1..K6 to find the
     E1..4 values).
     
     MAJOR ASSUMPTION : Assume that a large random sample provides a
     close to  even distribution at the end of each phase (For E2 & E3)
     such that the bias (ie a5 & a6) used to determine E2 and E3 are the
     only significant factors.
     
     Reasoning : If the distribution is not even, then it is very much
     easier to break (ie only the key values can cause the change in
     distribution pattern => know the pattern, know the key).
     
     I have developed a program which does just this (NOTE: not tested
     with real PGP data, as I have not had the time to investigate how
     the PGP file is structured, ie where the IDEA code starts and
     ends).
     
     It is available under a copyleft license similar to GNU. The Java
     Source code can be found at :
     
       [Application will not be released until beginning of 1999 when
     enough people are aware of the potential problem, and solutions are
     widely available - thus the threat to the general users privacy is
     kept to a minimal. Software houses which would like a delay in the
       release of this application so as to provide a solution should
             email: SGOSHA33@mailexcite.com with their request]
     
                                      
   What can we do ?
   
     The above crack works because there is a large sample involved. If
     however you pre-encrypted the file such that you got your
     pre-encrypted file and a key file, where this key file is small and
     contains only the key required to open the pre-encrypt file. You
     then PGP the two files, this would make it much harder to break as
     the key file cannot be broken from the sampling technique descibed
     above.
     
     I have developed an application which does just that. It is
     available under a copyleft license similar to GNU. The Java source
     code can be found here :
     
                                  kiss.zip
     
     To run the application you will need Java installed on your
     machine. Place the files in a directory named KISS. The command
     line is :
     
     java KISS.kiss e              - encrypt
     
     java KISS.kiss d              - decrypt (do not add the
     kiss extension to the filename)
     
     After encryption you will get 2 files. The '.kiss' file is the
     encrypted file and the '.lips' file contains the key used to
     encrypt the file. You should then encrypt both files with PGP.
     
   
   What is in the pipeline for the future ?
   
     Task 1
     
     The above 'kiss' pre-encryption is not 100% safe from
     non-bruteforce cracking !!
     
     As the majority of files encrypted are text messages which are
     based mainly on the characters 'a' to 'z' thus the Ascii codes of
     the characters are of the form   011xxxxx. From this you can see
     that the rotating distribution as used above will tend toward '1'.
     Thus with enough samples they can deduce the key with the simple
     equation.
     
     KeyValue xor 1 = CommonValue ==> KeyValue = !CommonValue
     
     To prevent this my next application (codename Stable) will be a
     stabiliser program which will ensure that the distribution of the
     data has an even distribution.
     
     Target Release Date : 30/9/98.
     
     Task 2
     
     The integration of both 'kiss' and 'stable'.
     
     Target Release Date : 15/10/98.
     
     Task 3
     
     Port of both kiss and stable to C/C++ (for speed and also for Task
     4). [Wrote Kiss and Stable in Java to test the speed of Java and
     also how it handled bit manipulation operations].
     
     Target Release Date : 31/10/98.
     
     Task 4
     
     Integration with PGP to provide uses with a much easier encryption
     method.
     
     Target Release Date : 31/11/98.
     
                                                        Author : SGOSHA33
   
                       Return to Albert's Home Page.
   
                                  [INLINE]




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 20:17:52 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Going Cashless: Bank ends ECash trial period
Message-ID: <199809200120.DAA28658@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Thomas Junker writes:
>    Fagen also cited the changing climate in the U.S. for Internet
>    payments. When the trial was started in 1995, she said, "people
>    were more fearful of using credit cards to pay for things over
>    the Internet. Now that seems to have disappeared." 
>
>Had Ms. D'Amico understood the nature of Digicash, she may have 
>questioned Ms. Fagen about the apparent non sequitur.  If Digicash 
>had nothing to do with making credit transactions "safer," why would 
>decreasing public fear of using credit cards on the Internet have 
>anything to do with Mercantile's decision to abruptly discontinue the 
>Digicash program?  

This seems clear enough.  Digicash was competing with credit cards as a
payment system.  One of its advantages was that you didn't have to send
your credit card number across the net.  As fear of transferring credit
card numbers declined, Digicash lost this advantage.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 22:24:52 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



In reply to my suggestion that lieing under oath isn't
a very good reason for impeachment,  

Jim Choate  wrote:
> Of course it's different if you preface your lie with "I swear to tell the
> truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth".
> 
> The oath is voluntary and therefore if broken no claim for duress, only
> intentional misdirection, can explain such actions.

echoed by nobody@remailer.ch who wrote:
> ...If some public figure ... goes under oath and then lies, ...
> he's trying to throw a wrench in the
> justice system. It wouldn't be as bad if somebody like Jim or I lied under
> oath, but this guy is the chief executive of the United States. He's
> basically Top Cop, and his administration doesn't hesitate to press
> charges against people who commit all sorts of victimless crimes.
> 

I agree it's bad. I agree it undermines the justice system a little bit.
But, ... impeachment?

You're not charging him with murder (eg WACO), attacking the 1st ammendment (CDA),
the 4th (SSN on driver's licences), the 5th (GAK). You're going after Al Capone
for tax evasion. You want to get him because he's a Bad Person not because of
the particular crime. This is ironic, because his crimes against our basic
rights were committed while pursuing Bad People, but it is also hypocritical.

nobody@remailer.ch also wrote:
> [quoting me]
> > I'm honoured to draw an ad hominem before revealing that I'm on AOL.
> >
> > -- an anonymous aol32 user.
> 
> Actually, the amazing thing is that you're from AOL. You're coherent, you
> quote, and you know how to use a remailer. One in a million. ;)

Unbelievable, I would have thought. ;->

-- Aol32Monger




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 23:59:34 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: CHALLENGE? Toto/signature attack w. unpublished public key
Message-ID: <199809200502.HAA08667@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> > In addition it has to be that n is the right length based on the "s"
> > padding.  This limits it to an 8 bit range, in this case 1024-1031
> > bits.
> 
> The constraint I gave was that log(n) = 1024.  Bear in mind that the
> msbyte of s = 0x08, so we know that n > s, and I think we know that n
> < 2^1024 also based on the s padding from the signature. So based on
> this n would be in the range 1020 - 1024 bits, right?

Actually there is somewhat more flexibility than this.  You made up the
padding, it didn't come from the file, did it?  You could add perhaps 1
more byte of FF without stretching credibility too extremely.  Then n
could be 1020 - 1032 bits.  It's too bad that s started out so small
(assuming the "true" n was 1024 bits).

> > If you make n be a product of a bunch of small primes, so that you
> > can make signatures with it, then a third party can detect this and
> > know it is bogus.
> 
> He has to factor your n to determine that it is bogus though?  This
> would imply that he had more compute than you do.  (Not unreasonable
> threat model mind).

But didn't YOU have to factor n also?  That's what you showed, originally,
a large s^e which you factored down to get some small factors and a big
one.  If you manage to get a prime factorization you can combine factors
to get your n.  But it won't be any harder for him to factor than it was
for you.

> Resources available: one low end pentium based linux PC? :-) Just that
> the attack is clearly feasible is interesting though a demonstration
> would be perhaps more convincing to less technically aware IRS people.
> The biggest resource overhead is implementing that lot though, unless
> there exist packages or libraries which already do most of it for you.

The discrete log algorithm is similar to quadratic sieve and other modern
factoring algorithms.  You do multiple factorizations of other numbers
and combine them to generate the desired relationships.  The difference
is that the factor base is not just the primes, it uses special numbers.

There was a break a few years ago of the discrete log modulus being
used by Sun's RPC.  This was something like 200-300 bits.  Maybe that
discrete log code could be obtained from the authors.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: RealNetworks News 
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 09:20:52 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Important: RealPlayer G2 Beta Expiration
Message-ID: <199809201413.HAA09326@dmail3.real-net.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Dear RealPlayer G2 Beta Customer,

As part of our ongoing commitment to improve 
customer service we want to notify you of some 
important technical information.  In some cases our 
customers have noticed that their RealPlayer G2 Beta
has expired.  In order to continue using your 
RealPlayer G2 Beta, please read and follow the 
simple instructions below.

+===+===+===+===+===+===+===+===+===+===+
If Your RealPlayer G2 Beta Has Expired

If you see a message warning you that your RealPlayer
has expired, you may correct this problem by visiting 
RealNetworks Service and Support web site.  Just 
click on the link below and follow the instructions 
on the page.

---> http://service.real.com/help/expired.html

+===+===+===+===+===+===+===+===+===+===+
If Your RealPlayer G2 Beta Has Not Already Expired

You may have already received a notification from 
your RealPlayer G2 Beta indicating that a new update
is available.  If you installed the update by 
responding to the notification, your RealPlayer G2 Beta
expiration date has been extended and you do not need 
to take any further action.

If you have not installed the update, please do so now 
by visiting RealNetworks Service and Support web site.  
Just follow the instructions under the section labeled: 
"If your G2 RealPlayer Beta has not already expired."

---> http://service.real.com/help/expired.html

NOTE:  If you have already contacted RealNetworks
Support you will not need to take any action.

Thank you for supporting RealNetworks products,

Maria Cantwell
Senior Vice President
RealNetworks, Inc.
Seattle, WA  USA

---------------------------------------------
 ABOUT THIS E-MAIL

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 indicated a preference to receive these emails.

 For information about subscribing to or 
 unsubscribing from future announcements, visit 
 http://www.real.com/mailinglist/index.html




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 02:16:15 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Clinton's fake apologies (fwd)
Message-ID: <19980920072503.29931.qmail@hades.rpini.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On 20 Sep 1998, Anonymous wrote:

>
> In reply to my suggestion that lieing under oath isn't
> a very good reason for impeachment,
>
> Jim Choate  wrote:
> > Of course it's different if you preface your lie with "I swear to tell the
> > truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth".
> >
> > The oath is voluntary and therefore if broken no claim for duress, only
> > intentional misdirection, can explain such actions.
>
> echoed by nobody@remailer.ch who wrote:
> > ...If some public figure ... goes under oath and then lies, ...
> > he's trying to throw a wrench in the
> > justice system. It wouldn't be as bad if somebody like Jim or I lied under
> > oath, but this guy is the chief executive of the United States. He's
> > basically Top Cop, and his administration doesn't hesitate to press
> > charges against people who commit all sorts of victimless crimes.
> >
>
> I agree it's bad. I agree it undermines the justice system a little bit.
> But, ... impeachment?

Yes.

We have some jokester sitting in Washington with full authority over our
military forces. The people can't believe a word he says. Congress can't
believe a word he says. He rules by executive order. He ignores the
Constitution.

There is argument over whether he ordered military strikes to divert
attention from his scandal and whether he sold the country out to the Red
Chinese. Now people like myself are thinking - totally justified - that
this guy will do absolutely anything to hold on to his presidency.

I don't feel particularly secure with some guy who I can't trust running
the military and with his finger on the nuclear button. That itself is a
violation of national security.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: attila 
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 04:14:42 +0800
To: Reeza! 
Subject: Re: Clinton's fake apologies (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980920152605.0086ba30@205.83.192.13>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Sun, 20 Sep 1998, Reeza! wrote:

   [snip bunch of a good ream applied where required --]

>
>In case you hadn't noticed, the investigation of him, vis-a-vis the rules
>established by other demicans, his supposed compatriates, is still ongoing. 
>
>Methinks this is just the tip of the iceberg, a bone for the populace to
>chew on so that when the rest of the story breaks, we (the dog) won't
>notice the prime rib and sirloin.
>
    we all know that -- the question is whether or not the Klintons have
    left enough witnesses alive to prove it!  who's next on their hit
    parade?

>I congratulate you for your defense of a person who demonstrably has broken
>his marriage vows, his oath of public office, and purjured himself while
>under an additional oath in a court of law.
>
>You, too, are a few neurons short of a functional synapse.
>
    perfect! slap! slap! let's do it again!

>I suggest you discuss it with the maker. The best way is large caliber
>bullet at sufficient velocity to penetrate and exit the cranial cavity.
>
    cant do this one more than once unless it's Vince Foster.

>God speed, you fucking idiot.
>
    yup, praise the Lord, and pass the ammo; we'll even help a few you
    fellows out [the door].

>Reeza!
>
    gave me a good laugh --thanx, Reeza!

    ooo-rah!


>	The world was on fire,,, but no one could save me but you...
>		Strange what desire ,,will make foolish people do.....
>			(to the back beat)
>				This world is only gonna break your heart....
>					==C.I.==
>

__________________________________________________________________________
    go not unto usenet for advice, for the inhabitants thereof will say:
      yes, and no, and maybe, and I don't know, and fuck-off.
_________________________________________________________________ attila__

    To be a ruler of men, you need at least 12 inches....
    There is no safety this side of the grave.  Never was; never will be.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 08:49:04 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Forwarded mail...
Message-ID: <199809201416.JAA13430@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 09:35:33 +0200
> From: Anonymous 

> 
> To my understanding pleading the 5th in response to a court order for your
> passphrase would work, correct?  Or would you be liable under contempt of
> court?
> 

It should work, though I don't believe it's ever been tested in court. I've
been looking at the court forcing one to take immunity and can't find
anything that would support such actions. So if you haven't told the court
you will cooperate *and* you say nothing more than that you're taking the
5th there shouldn't be much they can do except charge you as an accomplice
and hope for a conviction on other material.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 02:46:10 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199809200735.JAA15794@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



To my understanding pleading the 5th in response to a court order for your passphrase would work, correct?  Or would you be liable under contempt of court?




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 04:12:34 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: CHALLENGE? Toto/signature attack w. unpublished public key
In-Reply-To: <199809200502.HAA08667@replay.com>
Message-ID: <199809200836.JAA28403@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Anonymous writes:
> > > In addition it has to be that n is the right length based on the "s"
> > > padding.  This limits it to an 8 bit range, in this case 1024-1031
> > > bits.
> > 
> > The constraint I gave was that log(n) = 1024.  Bear in mind that the
> > msbyte of s = 0x08, so we know that n > s, and I think we know that n
> > < 2^1024 also based on the s padding from the signature. So based on
> > this n would be in the range 1020 - 1024 bits, right?
> 
> Actually there is somewhat more flexibility than this.  You made up the
> padding, it didn't come from the file, did it?

I used PGP to make an m to match a 1024 bit n which I presumed from a
1024 bit s; s is from the signature packet from the signed post in
question.  I made the assumption that for a 1024 bit s, the padded
message digest m would be of size 1024 bit also, with it's leading 00
01 FF ... FF etc.  

> You could add perhaps 1 more byte of FF without stretching
> credibility too extremely.  Then n could be 1020 - 1032 bits.  It's
> too bad that s started out so small (assuming the "true" n was 1024
> bits).

I see what you are saying: that if n had been even 1032 bits, it would
still be possible (though relatively unlikely) to result in a s <
1024, which would mean that the m I presumed could have had been a
byte longer.  I think your assumption that PGP would not encode the
leading 0 byte (in the s) is correct, from past PGP code tinkering.
In fact I guess that actually this statement generalises and (with an
even smaller probability) the n could have been 1040 bits, and the s
just happened to come out < 1024 bits, and so on.

I'll see if I can induce this effect by generating a 1025 bit key, and
seeing if any of the signatures come out at 1024 bits:

n =	0x0181291263B847EBEBFDC65E9128DDE9015522B461618F43CDBBF3D707507BA9
	  A71B002F4F852EEC1465710B1641C8816D3E0851C41C2A11E89062E424116A69
	  6E0FB179C7439C6C2F88A214E8D9877658A82982783FA5597262D6CD648111EB
	  A3AB12FC9EB71FB90222624D188E31A3B3333020740860E5F11250D10E2E61F77D
e =	0x11
s =	0x5AA544A471AA79074796D0C85BE01DF44BBED7F14C1189D2D114F8A4E9D4D20E
	  1E67ED9CFA8E20F4D9B84B9C82918F5721D984C7D3A2E2561D399982DFD38873
	  3665745849F83EA14A2D2D586CCB253515E63CF81E2C3927D991E25FAE673DEC
	  E18DB2F6014850CE97F2910393166577F120C4A9512B122F47E05FB117702D6B

So yes, n = 1025 bits, and this particular s is 1023 bits, and this
one is 1025 bits:

s' =	0x012B4B5218E1173DCEF5525C3E9E72BA962371372DA9E9D8D1B469A3BD1060E1
	  5F0ABA0E0BD9B497944FA9AE039F7F006591470857E0CB4FCB460485307A4366
	  54105112BD2E548B6BA9E6B950BC37D39A51ADC169B34935D052DFEEEA9A9FFC
	  BEA4D85BF22D87D66BCB3530EE5316F22A4A4BC4FAB33E592B019E87DE1EAB7336

(most of them work out to be < 1025 bits).

> > > If you make n be a product of a bunch of small primes, so that you
> > > can make signatures with it, then a third party can detect this and
> > > know it is bogus.
> > 
> > He has to factor your n to determine that it is bogus though?  This
> > would imply that he had more compute than you do.  (Not unreasonable
> > threat model mind).
> 
> But didn't YOU have to factor n also?  That's what you showed, originally,
> a large s^e which you factored down to get some small factors and a big
> one.  If you manage to get a prime factorization you can combine factors
> to get your n.  But it won't be any harder for him to factor than it was
> for you.

Yes, you are right.  

Presented with two public keys (n,e), and (n',e') and a signature s,
that even if the attacker manages to factor n but not n' the attacker
can't prove that there isn't another public key (n'',e'') which is the
real key which signed the message.  Ie the reason the attacker is
unable to factor (n',e') may be either because it is a multiple of two
512 bit primes, or because it is a mutliple of primes of special form
I quoted a post describing in the other post, and he doesn't have
enough compute to recover it.  With the quoted algorithm from Maurer,
the attacker needs more compute to show that the key has a special
form than you do to create the key.

Adam




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Reeza! 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 18:50:23 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Clinton's fake apologies (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <19980919212126.20210.qmail@hades.rpini.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980920095224.0086a600@205.83.192.13>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 09:21 PM 9/19/98 -0000, Anonymous wrote:
>
>What? To tell a lie is one thing, but if you preface it with "I'm telling
the truth",
>then that is really really bad? I still think you're drawing a very fine
line.
>
>I'm honoured to draw an ad hominem before revealing that I'm on AOL.
>
>-- an anonymous aol32 user. 
>

It was prefaced with "...to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth...".
Straighten out your head, you seem to be a few neurons short of a
functional synapse.

Reeza!

	The world was on fire,,, but no one could save me but you...
		Strange what desire ,,will make foolish people do.....
			(to the back beat)
				This world is only gonna break your heart....
					==C.I.==




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Neels Kriek" 
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 11:26:30 +0800
To: 
Subject: Re: "Bioarmageddon"
Message-ID: <000201bde4b3$afdb36a0$8a060cd1@alien>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Just read "The Cobra Event"by the author of "The Hot Zone"  Although mostly
fiction it makes for some very scary reading.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Duncan Frissell 
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 09:18:22 +0800
To: Robert Hettinga 
Message-ID: <199809201420.KAA06590@mail1.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>It now is illegal to try to leave the country with more
>than $10,000 in currency without reporting it to U.S.
>Customs officials. Violations are punishable by up to
>five years in prison and seizure of the money. But in
>June, the U.S. Supreme Court dealt a serious blow
>to efforts to seize the unreported cash, ruling in a
>precedent-setting case that such seizures often
>violate constitutional protections against "excessive
>fines."

Here's the case:

http://laws.findlaw.com/US/000/96-1487.html

DCF




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Eric Cordian 
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 10:37:42 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Alleged IDEA(tm) Weakness
In-Reply-To: <199809200308.NAA12805@avalon.qualcomm.com>
Message-ID: <199809201540.KAA25520@wire.insync.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




> I think this is wrong. It claims that the problem
> in IDEA comes from the bias of the multiplication
> operation... but the multiply in IDEA is over the
> integers modulo 65537, with the 0 value
> representing 65536, not 0...  this is in fact an
> unbiased operation. However I have not attempted
> to verify the rest of the logic.

Correct, multiplication by a non-zero residue modulo 65537 is a
permutation of the non-zero residues.  The central notion behind IDEA is
to use this operation, which can be expressed expeditiously in terms of
the unsigned 16x16->32 multiply, as a builtin wide S-Box.  This is how
IDEA manages to do strong encryption using only a few ordinary arithmetic
and logical instructions with no necessity for table lookup.

I didn't bother to read the rest of the rant. 

-- 
Sponsor the DES Analytic Crack Project
http://www.cyberspace.org/~enoch/crakfaq.html




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 10:34:40 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: CJ's Teeth Busted
Message-ID: <199809201536.LAA12406@camel8.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Forwarded:

Relatives report that Jeff Gordon busted CJ's teeth, which
is why CJ was picked up, not for his wasted carcass, but
for the the cutting edge incisors being hosted and packed 
around North America like suitcase nukes. The teeth 
allegedly hold the secrets of why everyone except the 
FBI wanted CJ.

Jeff sent them to a LANL for DNA mouthwash decrypt for
whatever CJ did to whoever to social engineer access to 
Motorola's algorithm's for transmitting DEFCON 1.

Which means us .mil Totos got to go to the backup plan 
for richocheting/encrypting/mixing signals to the sats. 
Anyone forget where it is, send me a msg with the PK

   http://calvo.teleco.ulpgc.es/listas/cypherpunks@infonex.com/

Search Heavenly Gate/Cypherpunks/Waco+CJ Parker..

The word on the IC Net (see above URL) is that the teeth are 
rigged to resist for no more than twenty days under pressure 
of counterterrorism's bite. Then they bark Semtext: fucking
jerks, then go nuclear. Monday is a key tumbler click.

More, there's a forwarded report from the alleged CJ that he 
spit in the eye of the T-man, wrote "Helter Skelter" on the cell 
mirror with his blood, and then, slow chewing a turd, ostentatiously 
peeked up the lady magistrate's Victoria Secrets, for which 
she brazen-hussily ordered him to forthwith gaze up this: MO.

Toto@AOL.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Greg Rose 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 22:16:49 +0800
To: coderpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Repost in text: IDEA(tm) weakness
In-Reply-To: <199809200116.DAA28107@replay.com>
Message-ID: <199809200308.NAA12805@avalon.qualcomm.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I think this is wrong. It claims that the problem
in IDEA comes from the bias of the multiplication
operation... but the multiply in IDEA is over the
integers modulo 65537, with the 0 value
representing 65536, not 0...  this is in fact an
unbiased operation. However I have not attempted
to verify the rest of the logic.

Anonymous writes:
     
>   Is IDEA secure ?
>   
>     The IDEA algorithm (patented by ASCOM) is the core algorithmm used
>     in PGP. It is based on a rotating 128 bit key split into 16 bit
>     segments. The algorthm converts 64 bits of data at a time using the
>     following operations '+', '^' (exclusive-or) and '*'.
>     
>     The formulas are :
>     
>[...]
>     
>     Given a large random data message (ie 1000 samples - 64*1000 = 8Kb
>     file). The distribution of the above operations can be used to
>     break the key. ie both the '+' and the '^' operations give an even
>     distribution but the '*' operator gives a biased distribution
>     towards '0'.
     
Greg Rose                                     INTERNET: ggr@qualcomm.com
QUALCOMM Australia        VOICE:  +61-2-9181 4851   FAX: +61-2-9181 5470
Suite 410, Birkenhead Point              http://people.qualcomm.com/ggr/ 
Drummoyne NSW 2047      B5 DF 66 95 89 68 1F C8  EF 29 FA 27 F2 2A 94 8F







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 15:19:50 +0800
To: John Young 
Subject: Re: CJ Update
In-Reply-To: <199809200148.VAA28141@camel7.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I've received two messages from Carl Johnson in letter form. He seems in,
um, good spirits. He also mentions a BabyTruthMongerel at one point. 

He asks that his messages be passed on to cypherpunks, and I have no
objection, after I'm done writing the fourth part of the article. We could
presumably scan them in and put them up on pathfinder.com.

-Declan



On Sat, 19 Sep 1998, John Young wrote:

> >From Alia Johnson , CJ's sister, today:
> 
> I'm writing to say that CJ has arrived at the Springfield Medical
> Referral Center, where he will be held for a month or more (the 
> phone says U.S.  Medical Center for Federal Prisoners) for 
> "examination". 
> 
> Here is the address:  
> 
>             Carl E. Johnson
> 			Register # 05987-196
>              U.S. Medical Center for Federal Prisoners
> 	          P.O. Box 4000
>              Springfield, Missouri  65801
> 
> Also, to my delight, I received a letter from him today. He sounds okay.
> 
> CJ in his letter asks for physical mailing addresses for some of the
> cypherpunks (no one specifically) so that he can send you things to 
> post since I will be travelling.
> 
> [End Alia]
> 
> ---------
> 
> We'll be happy to digitize and/or post any mail from CJ folks want to 
> share, anonymous and/or encrypted always welcome:
> 
> Fax: 212-799-4003
> Vox: 212-873-8700
> 
> Snail:
> 
> John Young
> 251 West 89th Steet, Suite 6E
> New York, NY 10024
> 
> We've put all our PGP keys at: 
> 
>    http://jya.com/jya-keys.txt
> 
> And a bunch of keys for the wild bunch of Totos:
> 
>    http://jya.com/totos-keys.htm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 14:20:43 +0800
To: Steve Mynott 
Subject: Re: uk police and warrents
In-Reply-To: <19980920152951.A29686@tightrope.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <199809201922.PAA09395@domains.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In <19980920152951.A29686@tightrope.demon.co.uk>, on 09/20/98 
   at 03:29 PM, Steve Mynott  said:

>The UK police are pushing for access to people's email _without_ having a
>warrent.

>THey also want the ISPs to store everyone's mail for a week..

Encrypt everything and let them keep it as long as they want. :)

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: OS/2: Your brain.  Windows: Your brain on drugs.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3a-sha1
Charset: cp850
Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000

iQCVAwUBNgVX3I9Co1n+aLhhAQH1UwQArvMflQ5BzBFFMWi4s/7u4NCf0v1dl6Id
SBvbGf3kZA4E1MAZ7Ry/UQucrVBuLmvU2VQBQyj8D2sILPzRUYySVUY8lzi7M8CB
kwY2Df5RFqa9m55aSvfAfaDCugzbZY5Rc2ImLfBVSAS1GDLpUUyhna5Oo3FtU482
pMYsvUAxtCY=
=QPHH
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 15:15:58 +0800
To: Tom Weinstein 
Subject: Re: Questions for Magaziner?
In-Reply-To: <36041E82.F4F072ED@netscape.com>
Message-ID: <199809202012.QAA10139@domains.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In <36041E82.F4F072ED@netscape.com>, on 09/19/98 
   at 04:13 PM, Tom Weinstein  said:

>> Arnold G. Reinhold wrote:
>>
>> One question I'd like asked is whether the US Gov will approve 56-bit RC-4
>> for export on the same terms as 56-bit DES. That would allow export
>> versions of web browsers to be upgraded painlessly, making international
>> e-commerce 64 thousand times more secure than existing 40-bit browsers.
>> (56-bit DES browsers would require every merchant to upgrade their SSL
>> servers and introduce a lot of unneeded complexity.)

>Actually, it wouldn't be any easier to deploy 56-bit RC4 than DES. 
>Either would require roughly the same changes to both clients and
>servers.

I'm sorry but I must be missing something here ...

Why not just use products that have strong crypto without GAK? What is the
point of using this weak junk when one does not have to??

- -- 

http://www.pgpi.com   -- Strong secure e-mail encryption
http://www.opera.com  -- Opera web browser with strong crypto & no back doors
http://www.apache.org -- Most popular Http server on the Internet
http://www.ssleay.org -- Free strong SSL library that can be used with the Apache server.


Then we have the usauly suspects:

http://www.jya.com/nscp-foia.htm -- Netscape's GAK plans.
http://www.kra.org               -- KRAP gang.


- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: Bugs come in through open Windows.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3a-sha1
Charset: cp850
Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000

iQCVAwUBNgVjmo9Co1n+aLhhAQH3NwQAoKla/hjuDRnaUaQ6AgvmI1XRk9rEFQzs
1hFEX5gTqhi/3V/iMRlP4WfJKT6tfQMLae7vL8wNtKzXwqElWZHXxONb8wIoITfH
sQlsE0bnKLAjyYtNc0v1MwSO/oKf1j7Npy8wOZowAxb0lcQNRsQJmOy3h620LLHO
Q0mxf/hhmGs=
=y4X/
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Arnold G. Reinhold" 
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 14:15:03 +0800
To: dcsb@ai.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Questions for Magaziner?
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>> Arnold G. Reinhold wrote:
>>
>> One question I'd like asked is whether the US Gov will approve 56-bit RC-4
>> for export on the same terms as 56-bit DES. That would allow export
>> versions of web browsers to be upgraded painlessly, making international
>> e-commerce 64 thousand times more secure than existing 40-bit browsers.
>> (56-bit DES browsers would require every merchant to upgrade their SSL
>> servers and introduce a lot of unneeded complexity.)
>
>Actually, it wouldn't be any easier to deploy 56-bit RC4 than DES.  Either
>would require roughly the same changes to both clients and servers.
>

I was under the impression that 40-bit RC4 was accomplished by revealing 88
bits of the 128-bit key in a header. If a new 56-bit-RC4 browser was
implimented by setting16 of those 88 bits to zero, would any existing
server know the difference? If not, you would get an immediate improvement
in security, at least for browser to server messages, without waiting for
the servers to be upgraded.

No doubt I am missing something, but what?

Arnold





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Reeza! 
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 00:23:22 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Clinton's fake apologies (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <19980920032435.24227.qmail@hades.rpini.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980920152605.0086ba30@205.83.192.13>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 03:24 AM 9/20/98 -0000, Anonymous wrote:
>
>I agree it's bad. I agree it undermines the justice system a little bit.
>But, ... impeachment?
>
>You're not charging him with murder (eg WACO), attacking the 1st
ammendment (CDA),
>the 4th (SSN on driver's licences), the 5th (GAK). You're going after Al
Capone
>for tax evasion. You want to get him because he's a Bad Person not because of
>the particular crime. This is ironic, because his crimes against our basic
>rights were committed while pursuing Bad People, but it is also hypocritical.
>

I could care less if he had an affair, personally. But he had an affair
with a subordinate in his direct employ. When CEO's do that, they get
ostracized. I'm in the military. If I did that, I'd be on the carpet seeing
the Ol' Man, perhaps even court martial, and then out of the military. And
this is the example set by my Commander in Chief???
Many other presidents have had affairs while in office, starting with G.
Washington himself. The difference is, they exercised better judgement and
discretion re: who the affair was with, when and where it was consumated.
Certainly the CIC is projecting a bad image, certainly it is his business
if he has an affair, but when he does it in such a manner that it becomes
front page material in every newspaper around the world, there is something
terribly, desperately wrong.

In case you hadn't noticed, the investigation of him, vis-a-vis the rules
established by other demicans, his supposed compatriates, is still ongoing. 

Methinks this is just the tip of the iceberg, a bone for the populace to
chew on so that when the rest of the story breaks, we (the dog) won't
notice the prime rib and sirloin.

I congratulate you for your defense of a person who demonstrably has broken
his marriage vows, his oath of public office, and purjured himself while
under an additional oath in a court of law.

You, too, are a few neurons short of a functional synapse.

I suggest you discuss it with the maker. The best way is large caliber
bullet at sufficient velocity to penetrate and exit the cranial cavity.

God speed, you fucking idiot.

Reeza!

	The world was on fire,,, but no one could save me but you...
		Strange what desire ,,will make foolish people do.....
			(to the back beat)
				This world is only gonna break your heart....
					==C.I.==




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Steve Mynott 
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 09:30:45 +0800
To: cypherpunks 
Subject: uk police and warrents
Message-ID: <19980920152951.A29686@tightrope.demon.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



The UK police are pushing for access to people's email _without_
having a warrent.

THey also want the ISPs to store everyone's mail for a week..

-- 
pgp 1024/D9C69DF9 1997/10/14 steve mynott 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Phillip Hallam-Baker" 
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 14:35:42 +0800
To: "Arnold G. Reinhold" 
Subject: RE: Questions for Magaziner?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <000101bde4ce$31382180$bf011712@games>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> I was under the impression that 40-bit RC4 was accomplished by
> revealing 88
> bits of the 128-bit key in a header. If a new 56-bit-RC4 browser was
> implimented by setting16 of those 88 bits to zero, would any existing
> server know the difference? If not, you would get an immediate improvement
> in security, at least for browser to server messages, without waiting for
> the servers to be upgraded.
>
> No doubt I am missing something, but what?

No, that won't work. One side is set to check that the bits it
decrypts match the ones sent in the clear. If they don't match it
rejects them.

There is a problem with the deployed browser base either way :-(.
There is no real difficulty in reducing the number of bits
exposed from 88 to 72 however.

Certainly 56bit RC4 would be preferrable to 56bit DES for most
people at this point since it is unlikely that the EFF will invest
another $250K in proving the same point again for RC4 while the
plans for a DES cracker are now published in a book. If the
government won't allow security, we are back at the stage of
setting up the best obstacles we are allowed rather than
establishing barriers.


There is very good reason to deny the FBI wiretap powers. The FBI
is now back into the type of political investigations it did under
Hoover. It is investigating the question of who gave Salon magazine
information that discredits Mr Hyde despite the fact that there is
no evidence it came from the alledged source and even if there was
discrediting a Congressman is not illegal.


	Phill




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Steve Mynott 
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 09:44:25 +0800
To: Tom Weinstein 
Subject: Re: Questions for Magaziner?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <19980920154227.B29686@tightrope.demon.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Sat, Sep 19, 1998 at 02:13:39PM -0700, Tom Weinstein wrote:
> > Arnold G. Reinhold wrote:
> >
> > One question I'd like asked is whether the US Gov will approve 56-bit RC-4
> > for export on the same terms as 56-bit DES. That would allow export
> > versions of web browsers to be upgraded painlessly, making international
> > e-commerce 64 thousand times more secure than existing 40-bit browsers.
> > (56-bit DES browsers would require every merchant to upgrade their SSL
> > servers and introduce a lot of unneeded complexity.)
> 
> Actually, it wouldn't be any easier to deploy 56-bit RC4 than DES.  Either
> would require roughly the same changes to both clients and servers.

Not easier technically but "easier" maybe politically.

Key length seems to be held (probably wrongly) as a rough measure
of crypto "strength" by journos and those in power.

40bit RC4 is weak.  How strong would 56bit RC4 be?

-- 
pgp 1024/D9C69DF9 1997/10/14 steve mynott 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: qweasd123@my-dejanews.com
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 11:27:27 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: WARNING: softSENTRY is a SCAM
Message-ID: <199809201619.LAA25486@x11.dejanews.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Windows developers, DO NOT purchase 20/20 Software's outrageously priced
($695) softSENTRY utility. The package IS A SCAM. Before reading the below
document I found on the Web, understand that DLL- and component-based copy
protection systems are inherently easy to crack. (softSENTRY incorporates a
DLL-based protection as one of its options, in addition to direct .exe
"protection".) Also understand that utilities such as Shrinker and WWPack are
only useful for compression, NOT protection from reverse engineering.
EXE-compressors are notorious for being easy to crack.

Do you want me to convince you?

http://209.44.62.170/pir8/files/ak.html provides cracks for Vbox, SalesAgent,
softSENTRY, TimeLock, and many other copy protection schemes. (Yes, the much
overbloated Vbox is now WORTHLESS as a copy protection system.)

For cracks of just about any EXE-compressor/encryptor you can think of
(including WWPack32, Protect!, and Shrinker), visit
http://www.nettaxi.com/citizens/caligo/main.htm.

Yes, you can also forget about using Shrinker or WWPack to protect your app's
code. They are both absolutely WORTHLESS in that respect as well. Cracks for
them are now everywhere on the Web.

-----------------------
e-mail: LSD-LSD@usa.net
-----------------------

Hello out there. I am somewhat of a newbie at cracking (with some knowledge
of assembly) but thought I'd try my luck at a commercial protection scheme
for one of my first cracks.

I will show you how to crack an extremely stupid, ready-made protection
scheme, softSENTRY 2.07 from 20/20 Software. Download the trial version
(itself extremely easy to crack) from http://www.twenty.com/pgs/dlidx.html.

This software allows zombie programmers (who, IMHO, do not deserve to be
called programmers if they have fallen for this disgustingly bogus
protection) to "automatically" convert their FULL programs to "protected"
trial versions. Sounds like a snake oil vendor, right? It is precisely that:
bogus commercialism at its very best. (This crappy, $695 piece of junk really
is worth only ten bucks. I have encountered far better utilities priced five
times less.)

Okay, what tools do we need to crack softSENTRY?

- Numega's Soft-Ice
- a good hex-editor

I will not show you how to crack the demo of softSENTRY, because the process
is boringly easy to do. (Do it youself! Tip: Delete c:\windows\system\ss.drv
and the "magic key" located at HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\{XXXXXXXXXX} to restore the
trial period.) I shall, however, show how to murder its weak protection
scheme! (By the way, the fact that softSENTRY's own protection is so weak
indicates a lot about the quality of the product itself!!)

Prepare a test target by protecting some small program like Notepad in order
to disassemble the process and watch how softSENTRY "works". For disassembly,
we will utilize SoftIce because W32Dasm89 seemed to crash when I attempted to
load the target. The protected file and the original file have different
sizes. "Clever", you would have thought, as I did, "Maybe there's some
encryption and variable random protection scheme inside the target." Well,
you're in for quite a surprise. Now hold your breath; THIS IS THE ENTRY POINT
FOR ALL PROTECTED FILES:

:004B066F CC             int    03
:004B0670 55             push   ebp
:004B0671 8BEC           mov    ebp,esp
:004B0673 83EC48         sub    esp,00000048
:004B0676 53             push   ebx
:004B0677 56             push   esi
:004B0678 57             push   edi
:004B0679 E950000000     jmp    004B06CE ; This is a very strange jump,
wouldn't you say?
:004B067E 0000           add    [eax],al
:004B0680 7006           jo     004B0688

All protected files possess the same pattern, with the exact same JMP (coded
as E950000000)! This is very fortunate for us; it means that searching any
"protected" file for the pattern { 55 8B EC 83 EC 48 53 56 57 E9 50 00 00 00
} will give us the entry point of the program and indicate to us that the
program has been "protected" with softSENTRY! (Has your jaw hit the floor
yet?) Yes, softSENTRY is very silly. The very insolent JMP 004B06CE points
the EIP to the actual protection routine. The routine then jumps depending on
the "protection" scheme the programmer specified for use: time limit, splash,
etc. Read carefully:

 00093C82: 8B4508       mov    eax,[ebp][00008]	;
 00093C85: 50           push   eax		;
 00093C86: 68A0324B00   push   004B32A0		;
 00093C8B: FF156C744B00 call   [0004B746C]    	;
 00093C91: E88A000000   call   001279B1		;THIS CALL LOADS THE RESOURCES
OF THE MAIN PROGRAM!
 00093C96: E825000000   call   00127956		;THIS CALL WILL RUN THE MAIN
PROGRAM!
 00093C9B: 8B45B8       mov    eax,[ebp][0FFB8]	;
						;
 00093C9E: 50           push   eax	  	;
 00093C9F: FF15E4734B00 call   [0004B73E4] 	;

(If the protection fails, you will land at 00093C9B.)

The two calls at 00093C91 and 00093C96 load the FULL program completely free
of all nag, splash, time-limit, etc. functions that have been chosen.

If you compare the above source with any other "protected" program, you will
see that both calls are ALWAYS coded as:

E8 8A 00 00 00 E8 25 00 00 00
1st Call       2nd Call

Now we can write a general crack for this amazingly retarded protection
scheme. Simply replace the first jump (coded as E950000000) with the code of
the two calls, which, again, is always E88A000000 E825000000.

1) Search for: { 55 8B EC 83 EC 48 53 56 57 E9 50 00 00 00 }
               			            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ (This is the jump.)

2) Replace it with E8A2040000 E83D040000.

Note that the two calls have been recalculated accordingly but remain the
same. (Track them with your debugger!)

So, cracking a softSENTRY-"protected" application is only a matter of
switching a few bytes. I certainly wouldn't pay $695 for some silly
"protection" that took me only 10 minutes to crack!




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: qweasd123@my-dejanews.com
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 11:27:29 +0800
To: comp-lang-pascal-delphi-announce@moderators.isc.org
Subject: WARNING: softSENTRY is a SCAM
Message-ID: <6u39v4$89r$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Windows developers, DO NOT purchase 20/20 Software's outrageously priced
($695) softSENTRY utility. The package IS A SCAM. Before reading the below
document I found on the Web, understand that DLL- and component-based copy
protection systems are inherently easy to crack. (softSENTRY incorporates a
DLL-based protection as one of its options, in addition to direct .exe
"protection".) Also understand that utilities such as Shrinker and WWPack are
only useful for compression, NOT protection from reverse engineering.
EXE-compressors are notorious for being easy to crack.

Do you want me to convince you?

http://209.44.62.170/pir8/files/ak.html provides cracks for Vbox, SalesAgent,
softSENTRY, TimeLock, and many other copy protection schemes. (Yes, the much
overbloated Vbox is now WORTHLESS as a copy protection system.)

For cracks of just about any EXE-compressor/encryptor you can think of
(including WWPack32, Protect!, and Shrinker), visit
http://www.nettaxi.com/citizens/caligo/main.htm.

Yes, you can also forget about using Shrinker or WWPack to protect your app's
code. They are both absolutely WORTHLESS in that respect as well. Cracks for
them are now everywhere on the Web.

-----------------------
e-mail: LSD-LSD@usa.net
-----------------------

Hello out there. I am somewhat of a newbie at cracking (with some knowledge
of assembly) but thought I'd try my luck at a commercial protection scheme
for one of my first cracks.

I will show you how to crack an extremely stupid, ready-made protection
scheme, softSENTRY 2.07 from 20/20 Software. Download the trial version
(itself extremely easy to crack) from http://www.twenty.com/pgs/dlidx.html.

This software allows zombie programmers (who, IMHO, do not deserve to be
called programmers if they have fallen for this disgustingly bogus
protection) to "automatically" convert their FULL programs to "protected"
trial versions. Sounds like a snake oil vendor, right? It is precisely that:
bogus commercialism at its very best. (This crappy, $695 piece of junk really
is worth only ten bucks. I have encountered far better utilities priced five
times less.)

Okay, what tools do we need to crack softSENTRY?

- Numega's Soft-Ice
- a good hex-editor

I will not show you how to crack the demo of softSENTRY, because the process
is boringly easy to do. (Do it youself! Tip: Delete c:\windows\system\ss.drv
and the "magic key" located at HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\{XXXXXXXXXX} to restore the
trial period.) I shall, however, show how to murder its weak protection
scheme! (By the way, the fact that softSENTRY's own protection is so weak
indicates a lot about the quality of the product itself!!)

Prepare a test target by protecting some small program like Notepad in order
to disassemble the process and watch how softSENTRY "works". For disassembly,
we will utilize SoftIce because W32Dasm89 seemed to crash when I attempted to
load the target. The protected file and the original file have different
sizes. "Clever", you would have thought, as I did, "Maybe there's some
encryption and variable random protection scheme inside the target." Well,
you're in for quite a surprise. Now hold your breath; THIS IS THE ENTRY POINT
FOR ALL PROTECTED FILES:

:004B066F CC             int    03
:004B0670 55             push   ebp
:004B0671 8BEC           mov    ebp,esp
:004B0673 83EC48         sub    esp,00000048
:004B0676 53             push   ebx
:004B0677 56             push   esi
:004B0678 57             push   edi
:004B0679 E950000000     jmp    004B06CE ; This is a very strange jump,
wouldn't you say?
:004B067E 0000           add    [eax],al
:004B0680 7006           jo     004B0688

All protected files possess the same pattern, with the exact same JMP (coded
as E950000000)! This is very fortunate for us; it means that searching any
"protected" file for the pattern { 55 8B EC 83 EC 48 53 56 57 E9 50 00 00 00
} will give us the entry point of the program and indicate to us that the
program has been "protected" with softSENTRY! (Has your jaw hit the floor
yet?) Yes, softSENTRY is very silly. The very insolent JMP 004B06CE points
the EIP to the actual protection routine. The routine then jumps depending on
the "protection" scheme the programmer specified for use: time limit, splash,
etc. Read carefully:

 00093C82: 8B4508       mov    eax,[ebp][00008]	;
 00093C85: 50           push   eax		;
 00093C86: 68A0324B00   push   004B32A0		;
 00093C8B: FF156C744B00 call   [0004B746C]    	;
 00093C91: E88A000000   call   001279B1		;THIS CALL LOADS THE RESOURCES
OF THE MAIN PROGRAM!
 00093C96: E825000000   call   00127956		;THIS CALL WILL RUN THE MAIN
PROGRAM!
 00093C9B: 8B45B8       mov    eax,[ebp][0FFB8]	;
						;
 00093C9E: 50           push   eax	  	;
 00093C9F: FF15E4734B00 call   [0004B73E4] 	;

(If the protection fails, you will land at 00093C9B.)

The two calls at 00093C91 and 00093C96 load the FULL program completely free
of all nag, splash, time-limit, etc. functions that have been chosen.

If you compare the above source with any other "protected" program, you will
see that both calls are ALWAYS coded as:

E8 8A 00 00 00 E8 25 00 00 00
1st Call       2nd Call

Now we can write a general crack for this amazingly retarded protection
scheme. Simply replace the first jump (coded as E950000000) with the code of
the two calls, which, again, is always E88A000000 E825000000.

1) Search for: { 55 8B EC 83 EC 48 53 56 57 E9 50 00 00 00 }
               			            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ (This is the jump.)

2) Replace it with E8A2040000 E83D040000.

Note that the two calls have been recalculated accordingly but remain the
same. (Track them with your debugger!)

So, cracking a softSENTRY-"protected" application is only a matter of
switching a few bytes. I certainly wouldn't pay $695 for some silly
"protection" that took me only 10 minutes to crack!

-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp   Create Your Own Free Member Forum




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 16:35:05 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: atheism (was: RE: Democracy... (fwd)) (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809202202.RAA14798@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: pjm@spe.com
> Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 20:13:38 +0200
> Subject: atheism (was: RE: Democracy... (fwd)) (fwd)

>      Personal philosophies are a superset of personal religious
> beliefs.  Personal philosophies that include the concept of a god are
> clearly religious in nature.  Personal philosophies that include the
> concept of "faith" are probably religious in nature.  Personal
> philosophies that include the concepts of empirical evidence,
> sceptical inquiry, and willingness to reject previously held positions
> due to new evidence or argument are probably not religious in nature.

Here is the catch in your distinction, the belief in those empirical
positions is fundamentaly based on faith. Critical to those beliefs are
at least two (any scientist worth anything could list many more) assumptions
that can *only* be taken on faith:

The universe and its operation is isotropic and homogenious

So clearly a belief in science as a method to describe the relations between
individuals and nature (at whatever scale) is fundamentaly based on faith.

As to your assertion that such a belief system is not a religion, please
take the time to review pantheism. It is clearly a religion in that it
addresses the relationship of the individual, society, nature, and God.
It does so by abandoning transcendence. You really should read some of
Spinoza's work as well as William James'.

Everything a person believes, for or against, is fundamentaly based on
unprovable axiomatic assumptions whose (in)correctness is based on faith
and by extension a belief in the correctness of the holder and the implied
fallibility of all other individuals who hold beliefs to the contrary. In a
very real sense religion is the epitomy of hubris.

>      The reason I challenged your assertion is that religious people
> often use such statements as a basis for further arguments that end up
> equivocating based on the term religion.  They first broaden the
> definition, by fiat, to be almost meaningless and then later use a
> much narrower definition to support their ultimate point.  I'm not
> suggesting that you were going to do this; I am simply pointing out
> why it is something of a sore point.

This entire paragraph makes no sense.

>      No, they are not.  The distinction is crucial to the main point I
> evidently failed to make in my previous message:  Atheism is not a set
> of beliefs that constitutes a personal philosophy.  There are Buddhist
> atheists, Universalist-Unitarian atheists, objectivist atheists,
> Wiccan atheists, etc.  Atheism isn't even a belief, it is merely the
> statement of a lack of one particular belief.

No, atheism is the statement that "God could exist, but doesn't". Whether
one chooses to hang 'Bhuddism' or 'Wiccan' on is irrelevant. We aren't
discussion labels but rather characteristics. Fundamentaly *ALL* atheism
states:

While it could happen that way, I don't believe it does.

Which is identical in meaning to:

While it could happen that way, I believe it doesn't.

>      Getting back to the strong v. weak distinction, the weak atheist
> position that one "does not believe god(s) exist" does not constitute
> a belief, a set of beliefs, or a personal philosophy, let alone a
> religion.  The strong atheist position that one "believes god(s) do
> not exist" is actually making a knowledge claim and so does constitute
> a belief.

Try to sell that spin-doctor bullshit to somebody else, and read a book on
basic logic.

>      I'm not trying to prove anything either.  I'm simply pointing out
> some issues regarding atheism that are too often ignored or confused.

Hence you are trying to prove that atheism is confused or ignored and as a
result is misundestood. I've got news for you, it isn't either. If anyone is
confused (and about to be ignored) it's yourself.

>      Now this part of the discussion I entered to satisfy my own
> curiosity.  Since it is so far off-topic for this list I'd be glad to
> take it to personal email if you wish.

Thanks but I don't generaly exchange private mail with strangers.

>  When you say "more than the
> earthly veil" do you mean that there exist phenomena that cannot, even
> in principle, be detected by our five senses or by any physical
> mechanism we can create?  If so, how do you know and why would it
> matter?

You didn't understand a single word in that explanation of transcendance.

There are many(!) phenomena that occur in nature that are not transcendental
that we can't in principle or practice experience with our five senses. Take
your Machian view of reality somewhere else.

As to knowing if something matters or not, that is the fundamental issue
involved in the question:

Does God exist?

We're back to where we started.

Signing off.
 
    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 16:36:44 +0800
To: cryptography@c2.net
Subject: It's Sunday and there's a hurricane coming...
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 15:13:53 -0400 (AST)
From: Ian Grigg 
To: dbs@philodox.com, e$@vmeng.com
Subject: It's Sunday and there's a hurricane coming...
Reply-To: iang@systemics.com
Sender: 
Precedence: Bulk
List-Subscribe: 
X-Web-Archive: http://www.philodox.com/dbs-archive/

It's Sunday and there's a hurricane coming.  We're prepared
with the Pringles and Jamaican ginger beer, and are now just
watching the action on screen and out the window.

One of the things about living in the Financial Cryptography
Capital of the World is that occasionally we get visited by
The Powers That Be, and flattened in the process.

More nuisance than a TLA hate campaign, noisier than
professors' mailing list, and more water than a broken
pipe in a Cyber.  Hurricane Georges is coming to town.

The funny thing is that all along, or at least for many
years, we have known how to control hurricanes.  It was
inevitably one of those cold war US defence contracts, run
by the USAF.  There was some justification based on annoying
naval flotillas at sea, although it wasn't clear whether the
fly-boys were intending to annoy the USN or the Ruskies.
They kept the whole thing quiet, as nobody needs to know that
huge amounts of money can be saved and/or advancing armardas
can be sunk without using the other expensive toys developed
by the other programs.

Trials did occur, but the technology failed to make it into
the commercial market.  In order to hide the true potential,
the brass hats put a strict 56-miles limit on the application
for civilian purposes, thus revealing that you could only move
the beast around, you couldn't really tame it.

The real problem with the technology was that hurricanes still
wanted to go in roughly the same direction, and all one could
do was to pay the fee to the Air Force to get it moved 56 miles
up or down the coast.  Needless to say, the Generals were
surprised to receive competing bids for services in the first
live civilian hurricane.

After a lot of confusion and multiple contradictory bids being
accepted, the hurricane entered, destroyed, and left.  As did
the Generals, with the loot.  This misuse of what were now public
funds was considered sufficient to slap the exec order on the
whole deal, conveniently making illegal any class action suits
over the misused private funds.

Working on this problem for some time has led to a solution.
Using an anonymous cash protocol, we have built an Internet-based
solution for setting the market-driven price for a hurricane path.
Conveniently, we have also contracted delivery services from the
specialists, those very same Generals, who are now living in the
islands near here under assumed names and ranks.

Up until now, the whole idea was received with less than religous
fervour.  Either nobody believed we could do it, or the locals
were simply playing on island time.  Just as we were about to give
it up and retire to banana growing, Georges showed up and contracts
started winding in.

Market operators have a duty to track activity and ensure
that no insider trading occurs (those pesky Generals).  This
responsibility has expanded into advice for traders of attractive
opportunities for investment, either in the future positions
market or in our line of lamps, air-dropped generators, and
emergency supplies of Pringles.

We've also been able to track geographical trends for governmental
statistical purposes.  Georges was nominally slated to cross the
islands at Guadeloupe, but heavy market pressure backed by church
collections on thursday night purchased a shift north in track.
Getting in early was profitable for the Guadeloupians.

St Martins then bought heavily and shifted it back on a close
to due east track.   Unfortunately the French fluffed it last night
by downgrading their alert to a warning, so all the world knows now.

Antigua, being stuck in the middle, then bought in, backed up by
Monsterrat (who raised funds by threatening the Brits with another
thousand refugees).  Since then Georges has been yoyoing across the
map and the market has gone to hell in a hand basket.

The Generals had been raking in the delivery contracts, but have
posted an aircraft maintainance alert and tripled the premium.

Antiguan alternate government types, engaged in a power play
with their legal counterparts, have traded a mammoth contract to
have the hurricane move _towards_ them.  Unhappy at the Generals'
reluctance to fly, they've issued an options contract of another
kind on the market operators, that will be 'in the money' if their
other contract is not fulfilled.

Meanwhile, a catholic mama in the US virgin islands had a little
flutter on the market to help her more easterly daughter.

Failing to spot mama's anonymous currency transaction form, the IRS have
declared the area in general and hurricanes in particular to be a major
money laundering effort, and have a SWOT team flying in.  At least, the
men in black will fly in once they complete negotiations with the Generals,
who previously contracted all airports for the hurricane season, and
are prepared to deal in exchange for an amnesty for previous picadillos.

The market still goes strong, having at this stage traded 10% of
the GDP of the East Caribbean.  We're prepared for the long run,
with defense in depth by redundant UPS and generators, multiple IP
and interlocking 50 cal machine guns.  If only we could stop our
shareholders from killing each other, we could advance our plans
to open trading in Florida.

Phew.  This Jamaican ginger beer is strong stuff, and we're already
out of Pringles.  Oh, and there's a hurricane coming.


El Generalissimo.

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 16:44:16 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: GILC Campaign to remove crypto restrictions from Wassenaar              Arrangement
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Mime-Version: 1.0
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-Msmail-Priority: Normal
X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4
Importance: Normal
Date:         Fri, 18 Sep 1998 04:41:24 -0500
Reply-To: Digital Signature discussion 
Sender: Digital Signature discussion 
From: Richard Hornbeck 
Subject:      GILC Campaign to remove crypto restrictions from Wassenaar
              Arrangement
To: DIGSIG@LISTSERV.TEMPLE.EDU

The following excerpt from the Global Internet Liberty Campaign (GILC) Web
page http://www.efa.org.au/wassenaar/support/
briefly describes its recent issuance of a statement calling for the removal
of cryptography export restrictions from the Wassenaar Arrangement. Further
background information on this international Arrangement, and on the
considerable international support for this statement can be found at
Electronic Frontiers Australia (EFA)'s Web Site. Dr. Michael Baker of EFA is
the primary author and original sponsor for the GILC statement. Further
information is also available at the Wassenaar organization's Web site,
http://www.wassenaar.org/

In principle, Wassenaar is the international version of those regulations
that currently place restrictions on exporting strong crypto outside the
U.S. All of the 33 member countries agree to abide by a set of standards for
exporting encryption products from their countries, for the benefit or
preventing terrorism, making international law enforcement's job easier,
etc.

Individuals subscribing to this list may wish to review this material, and
add their organization or association's support to this important campaign.
It is timed to coincide with the current round of Wassenaar talks in Vienna
that begin this month, and continue through November.

Richard Hornbeck
==============================================================

The major impediment to the wide spread adoption of cryptography, to protect
vital infrastructures from attack
and electronic commerce from fraud, has been controls on the export of
cryptography. The only international
agreement on the export of cryptography is the Wassenaar Arrangement, which
wrongly classes encryption as
a dual-use technology (one that could be used for offensive purposes).

On 15th September 1998 Members of the Global Internet Liberty Campaign
issued a statement calling for the
removal of cryptography export restrictions from the Wassenaar Arrangement.

Since then companies and associations have been expressing their support for
the statement.

If your company or association wishes to "sign" the following support
statement:

     "We, the undersigned companies and associations support the Global
Internet Liberty Campaign
     Member Statement of 15th September 1998 calling for the removal of
cryptography export restrictions
     from the Wassenaar Arrangement."

please write to  giving your company or association name,
web address and country.

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Alia Johnson 
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 20:05:53 +0800
To: Declan McCullagh 
Subject: Re: CJ Update
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Thanks, Declan, and please copy me with whatever saunters down the pike.

Alia

On Sun, 20 Sep 1998, Declan McCullagh wrote:

> I've received two messages from Carl Johnson in letter form. He seems in,
> um, good spirits. He also mentions a BabyTruthMongerel at one point. 
> 
> He asks that his messages be passed on to cypherpunks, and I have no
> objection, after I'm done writing the fourth part of the article. We could
> presumably scan them in and put them up on pathfinder.com.
> 
> -Declan
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, 19 Sep 1998, John Young wrote:
> 
> > >From Alia Johnson , CJ's sister, today:
> > 
> > I'm writing to say that CJ has arrived at the Springfield Medical
> > Referral Center, where he will be held for a month or more (the 
> > phone says U.S.  Medical Center for Federal Prisoners) for 
> > "examination". 
> > 
> > Here is the address:  
> > 
> >             Carl E. Johnson
> > 			Register # 05987-196
> >              U.S. Medical Center for Federal Prisoners
> > 	          P.O. Box 4000
> >              Springfield, Missouri  65801
> > 
> > Also, to my delight, I received a letter from him today. He sounds okay.
> > 
> > CJ in his letter asks for physical mailing addresses for some of the
> > cypherpunks (no one specifically) so that he can send you things to 
> > post since I will be travelling.
> > 
> > [End Alia]
> > 
> > ---------
> > 
> > We'll be happy to digitize and/or post any mail from CJ folks want to 
> > share, anonymous and/or encrypted always welcome:
> > 
> > Fax: 212-799-4003
> > Vox: 212-873-8700
> > 
> > Snail:
> > 
> > John Young
> > 251 West 89th Steet, Suite 6E
> > New York, NY 10024
> > 
> > We've put all our PGP keys at: 
> > 
> >    http://jya.com/jya-keys.txt
> > 
> > And a bunch of keys for the wild bunch of Totos:
> > 
> >    http://jya.com/totos-keys.htm
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Lucky Green 
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 11:43:59 +0800
To: Ryan Lackey 
Subject: Re: ArcotSign (was Re: Does security depend on hardware?)
In-Reply-To: <199809192038.QAA29964@denmark-vesey.MIT.EDU>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Sat, 19 Sep 1998, Ryan Lackey wrote:

> 
> [from a discussion of tamper-resistant hardware for payment systems
> on dbs@philodox.com, a mailing list dedicated to digital bearer systems,
> where Scott Loftesness, of DigiCash and Arcot Systems, mentioned ArcotSign.]
> 
> You mentioned the URL for Arcot, and I looked at the site.  It seems
> rather lacking in technical details, and makes a very strong claim --
> that it can provide tamper resistance in software on a hardware/OS/etc.
> platform which is generally hostile (a general purpose computer).

>From the technical description of Arcot's WebFort technology at 
http://www.arcot.com/WebFort1.htm, the product sets up an encrypted and
authenticated channel between the client and the server. You could use
standard SSL with client certs to achieve the same result.

What concerns me are the other outrageous claims made on the site:

o Conventional software solutions offering public key authentication, such
as those from Microsoft, Netscape, and Entrust are no stronger than
username/password mechanisms. [False. UID/PW's are subject to guessing.
Client certs are not].

o ArcotCard is a tamper resistant software only private key storage
system. [Anybody using the words "tamper resitant" to describe a software
based solution is incompetent at best].

o ArcotSignTM technology is a breakthrough that offers smart card tamper
resistance in software. Arcot is unique in this regard, and WebFort is the
only software-only web access control solution on the market that offers
smart card security, with software convenience and cost. [We have now
entered deep snake oil territory. Claims that software affords tamper
resistance comparable to hardware tokens are either based in dishonesty or 
levels of incompetence in league with "just as secure pseudo-ontime
pads"].

In summary, based on the technical information provided by Arcot System,
the product is a software based authentication system using software based
client certificates.

-- Lucky Green  PGP v5 encrypted email preferred.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: pjm@spe.com
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 16:06:35 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: atheism (was: RE: Democracy... (fwd)) (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199809191325.IAA08217@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <8888-Sun20Sep1998201338+0200-pjm@spe.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate writes:
 > Patrick May writes:
 > >      Not all philosophies are religions.
 > 
 > If we are talking philosophies of the range to include 'natural philosophy'
 > (ie physics) then you are correct. Fortunately, this attempt at shifting the
 > topic of discussion away from personal or individual philosophies relating
 > to the relationship between individuals, God, and the cosmos  won't work.

     Excuse my shorthand:  Not all "personal" philosophies are religions.

[ . . . ]
 > >  Asserting so is an attempt
 > > to make one or both of the terms meaningless.
 > 
 > And trying to change the subject of discourse is as well. A philosophy is a
 > set of beliefs, period. In this particular case we are discussing personal
 > or individual philosophies and from definition and practice they are
 > identical. Religion after all is nothing more than a set of beliefs and
 > therefore falls under 'personal philosophy'.

     Personal philosophies are a superset of personal religious
beliefs.  Personal philosophies that include the concept of a god are
clearly religious in nature.  Personal philosophies that include the
concept of "faith" are probably religious in nature.  Personal
philosophies that include the concepts of empirical evidence,
sceptical inquiry, and willingness to reject previously held positions
due to new evidence or argument are probably not religious in nature.

     The reason I challenged your assertion is that religious people
often use such statements as a basis for further arguments that end up
equivocating based on the term religion.  They first broaden the
definition, by fiat, to be almost meaningless and then later use a
much narrower definition to support their ultimate point.  I'm not
suggesting that you were going to do this; I am simply pointing out
why it is something of a sore point.

[ . . . ]
 > >      There are two forms of atheism (visit alt.atheism.moderated for
 > > an unending discussion).  "Strong" atheists state that they "believe
 > > that god does not exist."  "Weak" atheists state that they "do not
 > > believe that god exists."
 > 
 > Changing the side on which the 'do not' resides doesn't change the meaning.
 > These two sentences are identical in content and meaning.

     No, they are not.  The distinction is crucial to the main point I
evidently failed to make in my previous message:  Atheism is not a set
of beliefs that constitutes a personal philosophy.  There are Buddhist
atheists, Universalist-Unitarian atheists, objectivist atheists,
Wiccan atheists, etc.  Atheism isn't even a belief, it is merely the
statement of a lack of one particular belief.

     Getting back to the strong v. weak distinction, the weak atheist
position that one "does not believe god(s) exist" does not constitute
a belief, a set of beliefs, or a personal philosophy, let alone a
religion.  The strong atheist position that one "believes god(s) do
not exist" is actually making a knowledge claim and so does constitute
a belief.  Recognizing that someone holds the strong atheist position
may give some clues to their other beliefs and the remainder of their
personal philosophy, but, again, that position alone does not
constitute a personal philosophy or religion.

[ . . . ]
 > >      Without reason and logic, how do you propose to prove these
 > > assertions?
 > 
 > I'm not trying to prove anything, you are. I'm just blowing holes in your
 > reasoning.

     I'm not trying to prove anything either.  I'm simply pointing out
some issues regarding atheism that are too often ignored or confused.

[ . . . ]
 > >      All faith-based assertions are by definition irrational.  Mystics
 > > frequently speak of transcendence as if the word denotes a concept
 > > with a particular meaning, but never provide a coherent definition.
 > > Perhaps you'll surprise me?
 > 
 > Transcendence is the belief that there is something more than the earthly
 > veil. In other words, if you practice a transcendantal religion then by
 > definition you believe in a ghost-in-the-machine of one form or another.
 > 
 > If you like you can think of it as one set of religions believes there is
 > purpose and reason in existance whereas others believe that it is all random
 > dice (and yes that is a broad brush I'm painting with).

     Now this part of the discussion I entered to satisfy my own
curiosity.  Since it is so far off-topic for this list I'd be glad to
take it to personal email if you wish.  When you say "more than the
earthly veil" do you mean that there exist phenomena that cannot, even
in principle, be detected by our five senses or by any physical
mechanism we can create?  If so, how do you know and why would it
matter?

Regards,

pjm




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: attila 
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 17:57:02 +0800
To: Robert Hettinga 
Subject: Re: It's Sunday and there's a hurricane coming...
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




    careful, Bob --they'll be saying this reeks of another
    philosophical argument which has two CPers MIA.

    Big Brother is watching the list --or at least the IRS-CID is.

	attila out...

    P.S. BTW, IMNSOHO, good fiction and worth the read!


On Sun, 20 Sep 1998, Robert Hettinga wrote:

>
>--- begin forwarded text
>
>
>Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 15:13:53 -0400 (AST)
>From: Ian Grigg 
>To: dbs@philodox.com, e$@vmeng.com
>Subject: It's Sunday and there's a hurricane coming...
>Reply-To: iang@systemics.com
>Sender: 
>Precedence: Bulk
>List-Subscribe: 
>X-Web-Archive: http://www.philodox.com/dbs-archive/
>
>It's Sunday and there's a hurricane coming.  We're prepared
>with the Pringles and Jamaican ginger beer, and are now just
>watching the action on screen and out the window.
>
>One of the things about living in the Financial Cryptography
>Capital of the World is that occasionally we get visited by
>The Powers That Be, and flattened in the process.
>
>More nuisance than a TLA hate campaign, noisier than
>professors' mailing list, and more water than a broken
>pipe in a Cyber.  Hurricane Georges is coming to town.
>
>The funny thing is that all along, or at least for many
>years, we have known how to control hurricanes.  It was
>inevitably one of those cold war US defence contracts, run
>by the USAF.  There was some justification based on annoying
>naval flotillas at sea, although it wasn't clear whether the
>fly-boys were intending to annoy the USN or the Ruskies.
>They kept the whole thing quiet, as nobody needs to know that
>huge amounts of money can be saved and/or advancing armardas
>can be sunk without using the other expensive toys developed
>by the other programs.
>
>Trials did occur, but the technology failed to make it into
>the commercial market.  In order to hide the true potential,
>the brass hats put a strict 56-miles limit on the application
>for civilian purposes, thus revealing that you could only move
>the beast around, you couldn't really tame it.
>
>The real problem with the technology was that hurricanes still
>wanted to go in roughly the same direction, and all one could
>do was to pay the fee to the Air Force to get it moved 56 miles
>up or down the coast.  Needless to say, the Generals were
>surprised to receive competing bids for services in the first
>live civilian hurricane.
>
>After a lot of confusion and multiple contradictory bids being
>accepted, the hurricane entered, destroyed, and left.  As did
>the Generals, with the loot.  This misuse of what were now public
>funds was considered sufficient to slap the exec order on the
>whole deal, conveniently making illegal any class action suits
>over the misused private funds.
>
>Working on this problem for some time has led to a solution.
>Using an anonymous cash protocol, we have built an Internet-based
>solution for setting the market-driven price for a hurricane path.
>Conveniently, we have also contracted delivery services from the
>specialists, those very same Generals, who are now living in the
>islands near here under assumed names and ranks.
>
>Up until now, the whole idea was received with less than religous
>fervour.  Either nobody believed we could do it, or the locals
>were simply playing on island time.  Just as we were about to give
>it up and retire to banana growing, Georges showed up and contracts
>started winding in.
>
>Market operators have a duty to track activity and ensure
>that no insider trading occurs (those pesky Generals).  This
>responsibility has expanded into advice for traders of attractive
>opportunities for investment, either in the future positions
>market or in our line of lamps, air-dropped generators, and
>emergency supplies of Pringles.
>
>We've also been able to track geographical trends for governmental
>statistical purposes.  Georges was nominally slated to cross the
>islands at Guadeloupe, but heavy market pressure backed by church
>collections on thursday night purchased a shift north in track.
>Getting in early was profitable for the Guadeloupians.
>
>St Martins then bought heavily and shifted it back on a close
>to due east track.   Unfortunately the French fluffed it last night
>by downgrading their alert to a warning, so all the world knows now.
>
>Antigua, being stuck in the middle, then bought in, backed up by
>Monsterrat (who raised funds by threatening the Brits with another
>thousand refugees).  Since then Georges has been yoyoing across the
>map and the market has gone to hell in a hand basket.
>
>The Generals had been raking in the delivery contracts, but have
>posted an aircraft maintainance alert and tripled the premium.
>
>Antiguan alternate government types, engaged in a power play
>with their legal counterparts, have traded a mammoth contract to
>have the hurricane move _towards_ them.  Unhappy at the Generals'
>reluctance to fly, they've issued an options contract of another
>kind on the market operators, that will be 'in the money' if their
>other contract is not fulfilled.
>
>Meanwhile, a catholic mama in the US virgin islands had a little
>flutter on the market to help her more easterly daughter.
>
>Failing to spot mama's anonymous currency transaction form, the IRS have
>declared the area in general and hurricanes in particular to be a major
>money laundering effort, and have a SWOT team flying in.  At least, the
>men in black will fly in once they complete negotiations with the Generals,
>who previously contracted all airports for the hurricane season, and
>are prepared to deal in exchange for an amnesty for previous picadillos.
>
>The market still goes strong, having at this stage traded 10% of
>the GDP of the East Caribbean.  We're prepared for the long run,
>with defense in depth by redundant UPS and generators, multiple IP
>and interlocking 50 cal machine guns.  If only we could stop our
>shareholders from killing each other, we could advance our plans
>to open trading in Florida.
>
>Phew.  This Jamaican ginger beer is strong stuff, and we're already
>out of Pringles.  Oh, and there's a hurricane coming.
>
>
>El Generalissimo.
>
>--- end forwarded text
>
>
>-----------------
>Robert A. Hettinga 
>Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
>44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
>"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
>[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
>experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
>

__________________________________________________________________________
    go not unto usenet for advice, for the inhabitants thereof will say:
      yes, and no, and maybe, and I don't know, and fuck-off.
_________________________________________________________________ attila__

    To be a ruler of men, you need at least 12 inches....
    There is no safety this side of the grave.  Never was; never will be.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Jean-Francois Avon" 
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 22:30:16 +0800
To: "Donna Ferolie, Canadian Institute for Legislative Action" 
Subject: financial analysis of Canadian gun controll bill ( C-68 )
Message-ID: <199809210324.XAA00921@cti06.citenet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Excerpt from:
Cdn-Firearms Digest  Sunday, September 20 1998  Volume 02 : Number 597

Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 05:33:19 -0600
From: Jean Hogue 
Subject: 360 Millions For What?

1. 360 Millions For What ?

background: the CFC finally spit out the revised estimate of
registration until the end year 2002:
        120 millions in set up costs
        240 millions for operation (60 M per year for 4 years). 

- ------

Reference:    canadian firearms digest v. 2 # 595
        Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 19:26:57 -0600
        From: David A Tomlinson 
        Subject: BOY ARE THEY GONNA BOMB...

> If, however, it is an unrestricted rifle or shotgun, then it will NOT have
> to be "verified" -- no matter how many times it is transferred and
> re-registered -- until 01 Jan 2003.


Let me see if I can get this straight now:

- -- a) re-arrangement of the data set:

In order to justify the National Firearms Registry (and the whole CFC
existence), the Canadian Firearms Centre came out with its own
statistics, having rejected the actual firearms crime figures from both
the RCMP and Statistics Canada.

The CFC's point what to "prove" that the "problem" firearms were not the
legally registered restricted firearms (these were so easy to ban
outright) but the unrestricted  rifles and shotguns.

- -- b) verification: flavor of the day

First, the CFC came out with the dumb "fill-it-in-yourself" postcard,
guaranteed to collect essentially trash and hopelessely corrupt the
entire National Firearms Registry.

Second, the CFC announced that after the registration deadline (Dec. 31,
2002), all the 7 million records would be examined to weed out the
trash. An impossible task.  Hercules did not pussyfoot around with a
shovel in Augias' stables. It means that the registration work would
have to be redone entirely and taking a corrupt database as the only
source of information. At the end of 2002, the National Firearms
Registry would be a collection of trash with absolutely no legal value.

The importance of "legal value" ? Let's see ... "A Ruger Mini-14 ? No, I
surrendered that newly banned gun years ago. Your records must be wrong.
No, I did not keep the stinking receit. I don't have to prove I'm
innocent, you have to prove I'm guilty. Get lost !" What they goonna do
? Break down the door at 03:00 with machine guns ?

Third, the CFC announced it would do verification on the fly. Stuck with
sky-rocketing costs, the best it could come up with was to recruit
6,000, then 3,000 unpaid volunteers --  a few weeks before the law is to
take effect on Oct. 1, 1998. Each of them would have to proceed with an
average number of 2,300 verifications within a 4-year time frame to
ensure the protection of 7 miilion firearm registration records against
corruption.

Fourth, DAT's posting now clarifes that verification only applies to
restricted firearms. This coincides with the last few days left before
Oct. 1st and a seeming conclusion that the CFC failed to find in time
3,000 persons dumb enough to come mow their lawn for free.

- -- end result :

    - the CFC's own self-serving estimates of 7 million firearms
      (a case has been made of an actual number of 20 millions)

    - registered restricted firearms records with the gov.: 1 million

    ---> rifles/shotguns outnumber restricted guns by 6:1

1. 86 % of registration applications (rifles and shotguns) will be
exempt from verification. Brilliant ! A few days before the Oct. 1st
deadline, we are now back at square two: 6 million trash records, to be
verified "maniana". (Spanish for either really "tomorrow" or "in the
fullness of time", the audience must judge which applies). 

2. The remaining 14 % (handguns and other restricteds) already on file
were ALREADY verified and need to verified AGAIN (but rifles and
shotguns only need to be registered ONCE ever - right !).

3. The principle of the day is that the firearms allegedly most often
used in domestic violence do not need no stinking verification but the
considerably smaller stock of restricted firearms already verified must
be verified.

Conclusion:

For 360 millions, we will end up with a National Firearms Registry with
absolutely no legal value.

In 2003, a new round of hundreds of millions will be required again to
magically clean up an entirely corrupt Registry. No deadline set. Hey
CFC, please don't say it. I do not want to be told again that the enire
after-the-fact verification program will only cost 85 millions.

It really is not that complicated. Either the registration applications
need to be verified or they don't. A rifle/shotgun owner is just as
liable as a handgun owner to make a mistake when describing a firearm on
a registration form.

Arguing that the type of firearm changes the requirement is essentially
negociating on the principle. (Clinton: oral sex does not count as a
sexual relationship).

The sort of people who have not figured out yet that a principle is
somehting that is not open to negociation and compromise are the sort of
people who have no principles.

So, in the end, the registration process will have worthless data on the
unrestricted firearms -- allegedly the ones most often used in crime and
the emphasis on accurate registration will be placed on the other,
considerably smaller lot, of firearms.

Odd, I thought this is what the government has been doing since 1934.
And failed ever since.

Do not pass go, do not collect $ 200, lose a turn and go back to square
0.

    IS THIS WHAT WE GET FOR 360 MILLIONS ?

And Allan Rock, who brought us C-68, now does not have money to
compensate hep-C victims.

- ---------------

2.    Question to the CFC: When are you going to disclose your revised fees
?

Announced roughly within the same time frame as the 85 million dollar
cost for the entire 7-year gun registry (starting from 1995 until the
end of 2002).

The following base figures are those of the CFC:

    registration fee: $ 10 initially for "up to 10 firearms", increasing to
$ 18.
    possession permit: $ 10 initially, increasing to $ 60 near the end.
    number of gun owners: 3 millions
    number of firearms: 7 millions
    proportion of gun owners enticed into early compliance by low initial
fee: 30%
    average number of firearms per gun owner: 2.3 (less than 10)

    First 30 %: 900,000 gun owners, 2.1 million guns:         18 M$
            0.9 million permits x $ 10/permit = 9 M$
            0.9 million registrations x $ 10  = 9 M$

    Last 70 % : 2.1 million gun owners, 4.9 million guns:            164 M$
            2.1 million permits x $ 60/permit = 126 M$
            2.1 million registrations x $ 18  =  38 M$

    Total tax grab by Dec. 31st, 2002                182 M $
                                    -------

Note that the number of registration applications is equal to the number
of gun permit applications because we are allowed "up to 10 firearms"
for the same fee.

Now, the following secnarios to consider are :

1- the bureaucrats really believed the 85 million figure  -- and they
were going to bilk gun owners out of an extra 100 million dollars right
from the start, more than twice what they actually "needed";

2- the bureaucrats have known for a long time that the fee schedule they
published covers only half of the actual costs of 360 millions. Just as
they stalled and stonewalled and denied for as long as possible the true
extent of their spendings, they are also stalling and stonewalling on
the real fees they will have to charge to cover their lavish lifestyle.

I doubt very much scenario 1 is true -- the bureaucrats could not be so
naive, the Surete du Quebec itself will set up a staff of up 200 at the
cost of 40 millions, close to half the 85 million total. Scenario 2
shows we cannot believe Ottawa's fee structure anymore than we can
believe its total cost estimates nor its crime statistics.

In a nutshell:
- - The bureaucrats could not do it for 85 mmillions.
- - The bureaucrats cannot do it for 360 millions. (at that point, only
gone through the motions, unvalidated registry).
- ---> The fees cannot remain at the original level promised at the
beginning.

------------------------------







Jean-Francois Avon, B.Sc. Physics, Montreal, Canada
  DePompadour, Société d'Importation Ltée
     Limoges fine porcelain and french crystal
  JFA Technologies, R&D physicists & engineers
     Instrumentation & control, LabView programming
PGP keys: http://bs.mit.edu:8001/pks-toplev.html
PGP ID:C58ADD0D:529645E8205A8A5E F87CC86FAEFEF891 
PGP ID:5B51964D:152ACCBCD4A481B0 254011193237822C


From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 03:38:26 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Dilbert on Wearable Computing
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980919140545.008d5740@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Today's Dilbert is at  http://www.unitedmedia.com/comics/dilbert/ 
and if you access it after today, it'll be at

http://www.unitedmedia.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert98091213518.gif



				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: befcorp@mail.ios.net
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 18:16:59 +0800
To: 
Subject: advertisement
Message-ID: <199809222303.QAA06660@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Fred C. Moulton" 
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 00:32:06 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: atheism (was: RE: Democracy... (fwd)) (fwd)
Message-ID: <2.2.32.19980921053419.00a3a104@shell7.ba.best.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




To quote the The Encyclopedia of Philosophy (EOP):
   'No definition of "atheism" can hope to be in accord with all uses of
   this term."
The EOP article continues with a discussion of various definitions and
reasons for them.  The article includes the following comment:
   'On our definition, an "atheist" is a person who rejects belief in
    God, regardles of whether or not his reason for the rejection is 
    the claim that "God exists" is a fales proposition.'

George H. Smith in his book Atheism: The Case Against God writes:
    'Atheism, in its basic form, is not a belief: it is the absence
     of belief.  An atheist is not primarily a person who believes
     that a god does not exist; rather, he does not believe in the 
     existence of a god.'

Within the past year I attended a lecture by Mr. Smith and during the
lecture he indicated that his formulation was being preferred by
scholars in the field while the one given by Jim Choate was still
used in the popular culture.

Thus I think it is inappropriate to criticize the definition of 
atheism used by pjm@spe.com.

Fred

At 05:02 PM 9/20/98 -0500, Jim Choate wrote:
>Forwarded message:
>
>> From: pjm@spe.com
>> Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 20:13:38 +0200
>> Subject: atheism (was: RE: Democracy... (fwd)) (fwd)

>>      No, they are not.  The distinction is crucial to the main point I
>> evidently failed to make in my previous message:  Atheism is not a set
>> of beliefs that constitutes a personal philosophy.  There are Buddhist
>> atheists, Universalist-Unitarian atheists, objectivist atheists,
>> Wiccan atheists, etc.  Atheism isn't even a belief, it is merely the
>> statement of a lack of one particular belief.
>
>No, atheism is the statement that "God could exist, but doesn't". Whether
>one chooses to hang 'Bhuddism' or 'Wiccan' on is irrelevant. We aren't
>discussion labels but rather characteristics. Fundamentaly *ALL* atheism
>states:
>
>While it could happen that way, I don't believe it does.
>
>Which is identical in meaning to:
>
>While it could happen that way, I believe it doesn't.
>




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 03:16:36 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: This is a listed crime?
Message-ID: <199809210818.EAA08107@panix7.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



#   Bin Laden has suffered other setbacks recently. On Wednesday night, the
#   FBI arrested Wadih el Hage, an Arlington, Texas man who law enforcement
#   officials charge worked with bin Laden and Al-Din in Sudan, and with
#   Fazil in Kenya from 1994 to 1997. He has been charged with lying to the
#   FBI about his relationship with other bin Laden operatives, including a
#   senior bin Laden lieutenant who drowned in a 1996 ferryboat accident in
#   Tanzania.

Is "lying to the FBI" a law on the books, or is the actual
charge something else?
---guy




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bruce Schneier 
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 05:28:19 +0800
To: Adam Shostack 
Subject: Re: ArcotSign (was Re: Does security depend on hardware?)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199809211030.FAA05159@mixer.visi.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 06:27 AM 9/21/98 -0400, Adam Shostack wrote:
>On Sun, Sep 20, 1998 at 06:45:06PM +0200, Lucky Green wrote:
>| On Sat, 19 Sep 1998, Ryan Lackey wrote:
>| 
>| > 
>| > [from a discussion of tamper-resistant hardware for payment systems
>| > on dbs@philodox.com, a mailing list dedicated to digital bearer systems,
>
>| o ArcotSignTM technology is a breakthrough that offers smart card tamper
>| resistance in software. Arcot is unique in this regard, and WebFort is the
>| only software-only web access control solution on the market that offers
>| smart card security, with software convenience and cost. [We have now
>| entered deep snake oil territory. Claims that software affords tamper
>| resistance comparable to hardware tokens are either based in dishonesty or 
>| levels of incompetence in league with "just as secure pseudo-ontime
>| pads"].
>| 
>| In summary, based on the technical information provided by Arcot System,
>| the product is a software based authentication system using software based
>| client certificates.
>
>	I have no knowledge of Arcot's systems and can't comment on
>them.  Hoever, there are ways to make software hard o disassmeble
>and/or tamper with.  Given that Arcot is probably going to attack
>smartcards as being easily attacked, 'smartcard level' security is not 
>that high a target, the claim may not be so outlandish.

They're not looking to do tamperproof software.  Their business model can
be best described as: "better than passwords, cheaper than SecurID."

Here's the basic idea:  Strew a million passwords on your hard drive, and
make it impossible to verify which is the correct one offline.  So, someone
who steals the password file off the client cannot run a cracking tool
against the file.

>	Be intestesting to see how fast the code is.  If they're
>embedding certs in complex code that needs to run to sign, then theft
>of the cert may be difficult.

It isn't bad.

Bruce
**********************************************************************
Bruce Schneier, President, Counterpane Systems     Phone: 612-823-1098
101 E Minnehaha Parkway, Minneapolis, MN  55419      Fax: 612-823-1590
           Free crypto newsletter.  See:  http://www.counterpane.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Shostack 
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 05:25:42 +0800
To: Lucky Green 
Subject: Re: ArcotSign (was Re: Does security depend on hardware?)
In-Reply-To: <199809192038.QAA29964@denmark-vesey.MIT.EDU>
Message-ID: <19980921062758.A3194@weathership.homeport.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Sun, Sep 20, 1998 at 06:45:06PM +0200, Lucky Green wrote:
| On Sat, 19 Sep 1998, Ryan Lackey wrote:
| 
| > 
| > [from a discussion of tamper-resistant hardware for payment systems
| > on dbs@philodox.com, a mailing list dedicated to digital bearer systems,

| o ArcotSignTM technology is a breakthrough that offers smart card tamper
| resistance in software. Arcot is unique in this regard, and WebFort is the
| only software-only web access control solution on the market that offers
| smart card security, with software convenience and cost. [We have now
| entered deep snake oil territory. Claims that software affords tamper
| resistance comparable to hardware tokens are either based in dishonesty or 
| levels of incompetence in league with "just as secure pseudo-ontime
| pads"].
| 
| In summary, based on the technical information provided by Arcot System,
| the product is a software based authentication system using software based
| client certificates.

	I have no knowledge of Arcot's systems and can't comment on
them.  Hoever, there are ways to make software hard o disassmeble
and/or tamper with.  Given that Arcot is probably going to attack
smartcards as being easily attacked, 'smartcard level' security is not 
that high a target, the claim may not be so outlandish.

	Be intestesting to see how fast the code is.  If they're
embedding certs in complex code that needs to run to sign, then theft
of the cert may be difficult.

Adam


-- 
"It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once."
					               -Hume





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 07:09:50 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: This is a listed crime? (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809211236.HAA16397@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: Information Security 
> Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 04:18:43 -0400 (EDT)
> Subject: This is a listed crime?

> Is "lying to the FBI" a law on the books, or is the actual
> charge something else?

Deliberately providing police incorrect information during an official
investigation is a crime. A person can answer the question truthfuly or else
they can refuse, lying is not an option. There is also the potential for
being charged as an accomplice.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 07:12:13 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: atheism (was: RE: Democracy... (fwd)) (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809211240.HAA16457@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 22:34:19 -0700
> From: "Fred C. Moulton" 
> Subject: Re: atheism (was: RE: Democracy... (fwd)) (fwd)

> Within the past year I attended a lecture by Mr. Smith and during the
> lecture he indicated that his formulation was being preferred by
> scholars in the field while the one given by Jim Choate was still
> used in the popular culture.
> 
> Thus I think it is inappropriate to criticize the definition of 
> atheism used by pjm@spe.com.

Well Fred you and pjm can believe what you wish, I fully support it.

However, yourself, pjm, & Mr. Smith are claiming that a belief that
something doesn't exist isn't a belief is simply a tricky play on semantics.
A belief in a negative is still a belief irrespective of how many people
believe it. Might doesn't make right (or logical).

As I've demonstrated before (and for the last time):

^(A) = (^A)

Argue all you want,

Yet it moves.

    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 08:04:40 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Faith, logic, language, & history...
Message-ID: <199809211332.IAA16566@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Hi,

Some have posited that the traditional way of looking at religion, logic,
and culture is false and that in fact a new methodology of examination has
been found.

What is happening is that some faction has decided to abandon 5000+ years of
human social and religous culture in favor of a new set of definitions.
These definitions use the traditional terminology in a new manner and in
addition invoke an alternate understanding of basic logic (ie 1st Order
Predicate Calculus).

To date no proof or demonstration, only an oft repeated claim, has been
forthcoming to demonstrate the short-fall in the traditional approach.

While the issues based on faith are clearly outside the purvue of rational
proof the invocation of alternate logics to back them up is not.

It falls on the current cadre of supporters to demonstrate two things:

1.  The shortfall in comprehension or understanding that occurs with the
    traditional approach

2.  How the new system addresses these shortcoming succsfully.

In short, if these folks really want us to believe their assertion:

^(A) <> (^A)

Then they need to demonstrate why De Morgans Law and other derivations of
this logical axiom are incorrect and how this alternate inversion identity
corrects these failures.

*IF* this can be accomplished then the remainder of their argument has some
basis in consideration.

The catch they don't seem to have seen is that when one inokes an empirical
philosophy in the support of a faith based philosophy it is done at the
behest and within the guidelines of the empirical philosophy. To do
otherwise is to change the rules in the middle of the game.

How many people believe it is irrelevant, how many books are written is
irrelevant. All that matters is demonstrating the proof within the boundary
conditions. It is not an issue of personality or popularity.

Myself, I don't believe they can do it. Computers work, crypto works, man
got to the moon, medicine works, airplanes fly, etc., etc., etc.

As the saying goes, the proof is in the pudding. It's time these folks got
their butts in the kitchen.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Todd S. Glassey" 
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 10:47:42 +0800
To: "Bruce Schneier" 
Subject: RE: ArcotSign (was Re: Does security depend on hardware?)
In-Reply-To: <199809211030.FAA05159@mixer.visi.com>
Message-ID: <003701bde576$9858f3f0$200aa8c0@tsg-laptop>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Hey Bruce,
doesn't this response of yours imply that the OS is what is comprimised?,
that either the access models and control of the File System on the target
system (that is the one with the million PW's strewn about the disk file
system) is setup wrong or is just not functional. Otherwise why would I want
to take up critical disk space with a management process that had to manage
a million disk-based entities.

Oh and BTW - a simple runtime profiler (i.e. most of the runtime debuggers
will suffice if they have trace capability) will crack which password is the
right one, and I don't even need physical access to the machine to run it in
Microsoft Land. Now if they used the CertCo model and split the key/pw into
several sections and signed or encrypted them separately so that essentially
you have a holographic PW its harder, but the Runtime Profiler is still
capable of creating havoc in this model, I think.

That is exactly the point why SW alone solutions cannot provide the levels
of trust that some forms of commerce require. If the OS is untrustworthy and
you have to replicate the components of the system to confuse an intruder as
to which is the "active entitiy"... then whats to stop the same person from
building a sleeper or coopting the User Memory Space. It seems to me that
this effort will just stop people that are cruising through others
filespaces in search of gold.

As far as commercial trust models are concerned this solution, IMHO, is less
than desirable and in some instances covers up but does not fix, various
liability models for a complete system.

It seems to me (standard disclaimers apply here), that in the real world,
the best way to operate is to trust no one,  not your OS, not your ISP, and
especially not your own people. What that mandates is that there is some
"anchor process" that binds both policy and the systems that implement it to
the firmament. I believe that this is the key to making tools like CDSA and
others (OpSec) more functional. Besides, Imagine the strength of an audit
process based upon one of these immutable policy anchors.

Todd


> -----Original Message-----
> From: dbs@philodox.com [mailto:dbs@philodox.com]On Behalf Of Bruce
> Schneier
> Sent: Monday, September 21, 1998 3:27 AM
> To: Adam Shostack; Lucky Green; Ryan Lackey
> Cc: scott@loftesness.com; dbs@philodox.com; coderpunks@toad.com;
> cryptography@c2.net; cypherpunks@algebra.com
> Subject: Re: ArcotSign (was Re: Does security depend on hardware?)
>
>
> At 06:27 AM 9/21/98 -0400, Adam Shostack wrote:
> >On Sun, Sep 20, 1998 at 06:45:06PM +0200, Lucky Green wrote:
> >| On Sat, 19 Sep 1998, Ryan Lackey wrote:
> >|
> >| >
> >| > [from a discussion of tamper-resistant hardware for payment systems
> >| > on dbs@philodox.com, a mailing list dedicated to digital
> bearer systems,
> >
> >| o ArcotSignTM technology is a breakthrough that offers smart
> card tamper
> >| resistance in software. Arcot is unique in this regard, and
> WebFort is the
> >| only software-only web access control solution on the market
> that offers
> >| smart card security, with software convenience and cost. [We have now
> >| entered deep snake oil territory. Claims that software affords tamper
> >| resistance comparable to hardware tokens are either based in
> dishonesty or
> >| levels of incompetence in league with "just as secure pseudo-ontime
> >| pads"].
> >|
> >| In summary, based on the technical information provided by
> Arcot System,
> >| the product is a software based authentication system using
> software based
> >| client certificates.
> >
> >	I have no knowledge of Arcot's systems and can't comment on
> >them.  Hoever, there are ways to make software hard o disassmeble
> >and/or tamper with.  Given that Arcot is probably going to attack
> >smartcards as being easily attacked, 'smartcard level' security is not
> >that high a target, the claim may not be so outlandish.
>
> They're not looking to do tamperproof software.  Their business model can
> be best described as: "better than passwords, cheaper than SecurID."
>
> Here's the basic idea:  Strew a million passwords on your hard drive, and
> make it impossible to verify which is the correct one offline.
> So, someone
> who steals the password file off the client cannot run a cracking tool
> against the file.
>
> >	Be intestesting to see how fast the code is.  If they're
> >embedding certs in complex code that needs to run to sign, then theft
> >of the cert may be difficult.
>
> It isn't bad.
>
> Bruce
> **********************************************************************
> Bruce Schneier, President, Counterpane Systems     Phone: 612-823-1098
> 101 E Minnehaha Parkway, Minneapolis, MN  55419      Fax: 612-823-1590
>            Free crypto newsletter.  See:  http://www.counterpane.com
>
>
>




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 11:31:20 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Satellite phones and Net-connections: new space race (fwd)
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 09:31:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: Declan McCullagh 
To: politech@vorlon.mit.edu
Subject: Satellite phones and Net-connections: new space race

I can't give you a URL to my satellite article in this week's Time
magazine; it won't be on our web site for another week. 

---

Time Magazine
September 28, 1998
Pages B18-B22

  The Super-Cell
  By Declan McCullagh

  The Iridium consortium and rival joint ventures are closing in on their
  goal of making sat phones into multibillion-dollar mainstays of the
  info-superhighway

---

Also worth checking out is an article by Tamala Edwards on the Vermont
Senate race, in which an honest-to-goodness 79-year old dairy farmer is
running against incumbent Dem Patrick Leahy. You'll remember Leahy is the
architect of the Digital Telephony wiretapping law, but was also a vocal
opponent of the CDA. 

-Declan






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 11:48:20 +0800
To: "Reeza!" 
Subject: Re: Clinton's fake apologies (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980920152605.0086ba30@205.83.192.13>
Message-ID: <360683E5.26C6@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Reeza! wrote:
> In case you hadn't noticed, the investigation of him, vis-a-vis the rules
> established by other demicans, his supposed compatriates, is still ongoing.
> 
> Methinks this is just the tip of the iceberg, a bone for the populace to
> chew on so that when the rest of the story breaks, we (the dog) won't
> notice the prime rib and sirloin.
> 
Completely illogical. Give me one good reason not to lead with your best
punch? I suspect Starr's work is voluminous but weak on all other counts
so he led with what would create the most publicity. I've said that I'm
no great fan of Clinton's but this entire investigation is blatantly
partisan and has brought the political process in this country about as
low as it is possible to bring it. 

Starr's base approach to justice is the opening shot of what I hope
turns into an all-out scorched-earth battle. Let 'em all fall down. I'm
just afraid that when it's over the only people who will be willing to
run for public office will be truly dangerous people who have no respect
for liberty not of their own definition.

Mike




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 12:05:07 +0800
To: Information Security 
Subject: Re: This is a listed crime?
In-Reply-To: <199809210818.EAA08107@panix7.panix.com>
Message-ID: <360687E1.2F94@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Information Security wrote:
> 
> #   Bin Laden has suffered other setbacks recently. On Wednesday night, the
> #   FBI arrested Wadih el Hage, an Arlington, Texas man who law enforcement
> #   officials charge worked with bin Laden and Al-Din in Sudan, and with
> #   Fazil in Kenya from 1994 to 1997. He has been charged with lying to the
> #   FBI about his relationship with other bin Laden operatives, including a
> #   senior bin Laden lieutenant who drowned in a 1996 ferryboat accident in
> #   Tanzania.
> 
> Is "lying to the FBI" a law on the books, or is the actual
> charge something else?
> ---guy
Not in my book but look very carefully at INS law. It may have to do
with documentation generated during his admission to the country rather
than after. INS law, to a nonlawyer, looks like the Constitution can be
held at arm's length. Still sounds pretty shaky. After all, who
remembers everything? I can't even remember what I had for supper last
night no less the names of all the people I've worked with in the last
few years.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Duncan Frissell 
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 09:46:18 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: <199809211446.KAA16321@mail1.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 07:36 AM 9/21/98 -0500, Jim Choate wrote:
>Forwarded message:
>
>> From: Information Security 
>> Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 04:18:43 -0400 (EDT)
>> Subject: This is a listed crime?
>
>> Is "lying to the FBI" a law on the books, or is the actual
>> charge something else?
>
>Deliberately providing police incorrect information during an official
>investigation is a crime. A person can answer the question truthfuly or else
>they can refuse, lying is not an option. There is also the potential for
>being charged as an accomplice.

In fact some authorities thought that you could give an "exculpatory no"
answer to questions without being guilty of Obstruction of Justice.  "Did
you accept a bribe from the Chinese, Mr. Clinton." "No."  But last year the
Supremes held that even "exculpatory noes" can be Obstruction so the better
answer (as it always has been) is "Get out of my face G-Man I don't have to
talk to scum like you."  (Or words to that effect).

DCF




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 13:23:45 +0800
To: attila 
Subject: Re: This is a listed crime?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <360699DC.7BB4@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> if nothing else, such as
>   telling a federal agent to fuck-off, they will charge you with
>   obstruction of justice.
> 
Not too long ago the New York State Court of Appeals struck down some
local ordinance outlawing public profanity stating that it was
unconstitutional. Looks like not all courts are enemies of the Bill of
Rights. Bottom line is that you can say 'Fuck You' in New York. That's
not to say that some tallboot won't abuse his power and crack your skull
or set you up if you dis him.

>   dont want to take the time to look up the 18 USC reference, but
>   providing deliberately false information to _any_ federal agent
>   is a felony--  that includes the IRS.
>
Perhaps you could deliberately mislead them without actually
representing the information as true. Would these disclaimers indicate
that the following information is not suitable for any purpose and that
the provider takes no responsibility for any confusion resulting from
the use of the information? Like a Microsoft software license. A
tail-light warranty for the spoken spam.

I heard that ...
I believe that ...
In my opinion ...
I'm not sure ...
I don't recall exactly ...
I think you should consider looking into ...
It is possible that ...
I thought that ...
What if ...
Didn't he once ...

Or use these:

I'm truly, truly sorry I can't help you. Would you like some more
coffee?
Piss off.

>     silence             obstruction of justice
>
Silence is allowed, 5th ammendment. Where in the BOR does it say that
this only applies under oath in a court of law?

>     false information   lying to a federal agent in course of ...
> 
Golly, can't lie under oath, can't lie not under oath. Can't just be
quiet. I guess they win. Justice prevails.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Jean-Francois Avon" 
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 10:57:19 +0800
To: "Me Michel Kelly-Gagnon" 
Subject: [short] Updated quote from Allan Rock
Message-ID: <199809211555.LAA10768@cti06.citenet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



This is the complete quote from Alan Rock, then justice minister who pushed 
the gun control, registration and confiscation bill (C-68).


"I came to Ottawa with the firm belief that the only people in this
country who should have guns are police officers and soldiers."

-- Allan Rock, Canada's Minister of Justice, quoted in _Maclean's_
        "Taking Aim on Guns", April 25, 1994, page 12.


"... protection of life is NOT a legitimate use for a firearm 
     in this country sir! Not! That is expressly ruled out!". 
 
  Justice Minister Allan Rock
  "Canadian justice issues, a town hall meeting"
  Producer - Joanne Levy,   
  Shaw cable, Calgary (403) 250-2885
  Taped at the Triwood community centre in Calgary Dec.1994 




Jean-Francois Avon, B.Sc. Physics, Montreal, Canada

  JFA Technologies, R&D physicists & engineers
     Instrumentation & control, LabView programming
PGP keys: http://bs.mit.edu:8001/pks-toplev.html
PGP ID:C58ADD0D:529645E8205A8A5E F87CC86FAEFEF891 
PGP ID:5B51964D:152ACCBCD4A481B0 254011193237822C





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bruce Schneier 
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 11:55:38 +0800
To: "Todd S. Glassey" 
Subject: RE: ArcotSign (was Re: Does security depend on hardware?)
In-Reply-To: <199809211030.FAA05159@mixer.visi.com>
Message-ID: <199809211656.LAA18134@mixer.visi.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 08:43 AM 9/21/98 -0700, Todd S. Glassey wrote:
>Hey Bruce,
>doesn't this response of yours imply that the OS is what is comprimised?,
>that either the access models and control of the File System on the target
>system (that is the one with the million PW's strewn about the disk file
>system) is setup wrong or is just not functional. Otherwise why would I want
>to take up critical disk space with a management process that had to manage
>a million disk-based entities.

It's not that much disk space.  The million entries was a methphor.  They use
mathematics instead of raw disk storage.

>Oh and BTW - a simple runtime profiler (i.e. most of the runtime debuggers
>will suffice if they have trace capability) will crack which password is the
>right one, and I don't even need physical access to the machine to run it in
>Microsoft Land. Now if they used the CertCo model and split the key/pw into
>several sections and signed or encrypted them separately so that essentially
>you have a holographic PW its harder, but the Runtime Profiler is still
>capable of creating havoc in this model, I think.

Of course.  It's less secure than hardware solutions.

>That is exactly the point why SW alone solutions cannot provide the levels
>of trust that some forms of commerce require. If the OS is untrustworthy and
>you have to replicate the components of the system to confuse an intruder as
>to which is the "active entitiy"... then whats to stop the same person from
>building a sleeper or coopting the User Memory Space. It seems to me that
>this effort will just stop people that are cruising through others
>filespaces in search of gold.

Agreed.  Think of AOL as the ideal user for this idea.  They want something
a little more secure than passwords, but don't want to spend the money on
hardware.  Passwords can be guessed, or sniffed.  This system doesn't
allow passwords to be guessed, and there are some more additions to 
prevent sniffing (all pretty standard).  Sure, if the client machine is
compromised (installing a sniffer, etc), there is no security, but that's not
the real threat.

>As far as commercial trust models are concerned this solution, IMHO, is less
>than desirable and in some instances covers up but does not fix, various
>liability models for a complete system.

Sure.  But it's good enough for some things.

>It seems to me (standard disclaimers apply here), that in the real world,
>the best way to operate is to trust no one,  not your OS, not your ISP, and
>especially not your own people. What that mandates is that there is some
>"anchor process" that binds both policy and the systems that implement it to
>the firmament. I believe that this is the key to making tools like CDSA and
>others (OpSec) more functional. Besides, Imagine the strength of an audit
>process based upon one of these immutable policy anchors.

That's not the best way to operate in the real world.  I'd much rather have
friends, get married, and have a fun life than to trust no one.  I'd much
rather
take the occassional hit rather than sit alone in the dark holding a gun.
This
is the real world of ninny net users in chat rooms, this isn't online real
estate.

Bruce
**********************************************************************
Bruce Schneier, President, Counterpane Systems     Phone: 612-823-1098
101 E Minnehaha Parkway, Minneapolis, MN  55419      Fax: 612-823-1590
           Free crypto newsletter.  See:  http://www.counterpane.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 14:18:02 +0800
To: Robert Hettinga 
Subject: Re: Stego-empty hard drives...
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3606A3B8.5B33@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Robert Hettinga wrote:
> Stegoing an encrypted partition as "blank" hard drive space without
> actually writing over it unless you wanted to?
> 
A freshly formatted partition has a fill value. Noise would indicate
that is is not fresh. This would not be proof that it contained
encrypted data but it would indicate some sort of use. 

Another layer: 
	create a partition. 
	Use it as an archive for 'unclassified' materials. 
	At some point after the use has fragmented it enough to look real:
		disable all automatic accesses ( temp files, caches ... ) to the
partition
		create an application program that uses the unused space as a secure
filesystem

Then the partition would be arguably "in normal use" and it could get
tough to prove the nature of the unused space. You could even leave some
space filled with the format fill value. Not sure how to hide the app.
maybe as passphrased option in some innocuous custom application.
Accounting app?

The possibility of them taking a hash and saving it for later comparison
is a problem.

> Stegoing an encrypted partition as not even *there* at all?
> 
Just do a drive ID command and you can figure out how many logical
sectors are there. Add up the elements in the partition table and look
for a difference. Unused space -esp that filled with noise- is suspect. 

> Obviously, even if the partition were found, it would look, to sniffer
> programs, as if it were empty, right? :-).
> 
Just the existence of a "hidden" partition might might get the juices
flowing.

*************************************************************************************************

It would be truly beautiful if you could alter the drive firmware to
identify itself as a 3Gb drive when it was actually a 5 Gb drive. Add
some kind of extended command to the drive that allowed you to
activate/deactivate the extended region at will. Without a password of
course, the additional command would just report the appropriate error.
Then just make sure you have an extra slot in the partition table to
address the extended region unless you want to write a low-level driver.

Any Quantum or Maxtor persons on the list?

Mike

Security requires hardware and software.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 14:12:50 +0800
To: Petro 
Subject: Re: Clinton's fake apologies (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980920152605.0086ba30@205.83.192.13>
Message-ID: <3606A58F.385B@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Petro wrote:
> 
> At 11:50 AM -0500 9/21/98, Michael Motyka wrote:
> >Starr's base approach to justice is the opening shot of what I hope
> >turns into an all-out scorched-earth battle. Let 'em all fall down. I'm
> >just afraid that when it's over the only people who will be willing to
> >run for public office will be truly dangerous people who have no respect
> >for liberty not of their own definition.
> 
>         Which is different from today how?
> 
In spite of their  shortcomings, many of today's politicians
in both parties seem to be fairly pragmatic, 'middle of the road' types.
If the only people who can pass muster under the emerging standards are
religous fundamentalists then we will have a Bill of Rights under attack
problem that is another order of magnitude greater than we have right
now. Scares me because while I'm pretty much a live and let live sort,
some of the fundamentalists I've known are not very tolerant. 

Mike




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 14:25:22 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Chemical Analysis of Laptop strap.
In-Reply-To: <199809190501.HAA12423@replay.com>
Message-ID: <3606A678.40A4@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Anonymous wrote:
> So I fly home Friday from San Jose.  Probably because I was
> in a hurry, after walking through the magnetometer and x-raying
> my stuff, a security dude grabbed my laptop and said he wanted
> to 'analyze' it.  Yeah sure whatever, I decided not to protest
> I was late for my flight.
> 
> This analysis, it turned out, was wiping a coffee filter over the strap
> of its bag, and sticking the coffee filter into a slot on a machine.
> No solvent even.  The machine had columns labelled TNT RDX NITRO PETN HMX.
> I recognized the first four as high explosives.  Later, I wondered
> if people with angina (who take nitro orally) ever set this off.
> Most of them, of course, are not bearded eastern-european/semetic
> guys in their 30's who look worried and in a hurry.
> 
> Anyway, that was it, and I made my flight.  Didn't even open
> the laptop's case.
> 
> The machine name was ION-something; I wonder whether it sucked vapors
> from the fiber disk or whether it was a neutron-spectrometer (?) device.
> 
> (Had this been a UK Customs 'inspection' of the contents of the disk, I
> might have had to explain the half-gig of "noise" I have on the disk.
> Only, it really is noise. Really.)
> 
> Anyway, the moral of the story:
> 
> Don't store your laptop with your explosives :-)
> 
> 
Just wait until you've had a cavity search and been grilled for four
hours because you fed Miracle-Gro to your prize peonies just before
leaving on your trip. It's pretend security. Feel-good stuff. Better to
do NMR of any large-volume object although the magnetic field migh fuck
up your drive.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 15:08:50 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: RE: atheism (was: RE: Democracy... (fwd)) (fwd)
Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A192846CE@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate wrote:
> As I've demonstrated before (and for the last time):
> 
> ^(A) = (^A)

f() = belief function
A = hypothesis
^ = not

f(^A) != ^f(A)

At least not without placing requirements on f().

Then you claim everything is a belief, so f() is meaningless. But then
you deny A == A when you claimed that metaphysical objectivity is a
belief, so what was the point in writing the equation in the first
place?

Go transcend.

	Matt




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 13:32:56 +0800
To: howree@cable.navy.mil>
Subject: Re: Clinton's fake apologies (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980920152605.0086ba30@205.83.192.13>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 11:50 AM -0500 9/21/98, Michael Motyka wrote:
>Starr's base approach to justice is the opening shot of what I hope
>turns into an all-out scorched-earth battle. Let 'em all fall down. I'm
>just afraid that when it's over the only people who will be willing to
>run for public office will be truly dangerous people who have no respect
>for liberty not of their own definition.

	Which is different from today how?

--
petro@playboy.com----for work related issues. I don't speak for Playboy.
petro@bounty.org-----for everthing else.      They wouldn't like that.
                                              They REALLY
Economic speech IS political speech.          wouldn't like that.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 06:15:14 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199809211117.NAA29900@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



...


      some of the internal key-IDs have been modified. however, both
      versions should have been posted in various 'true' messages. No
      information if some of the false messages were ever encrypted
      with the key twiddles in hidden 32 bits, but probably not.


...




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bram 
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 15:15:04 +0800
To: Bruce Schneier 
Subject: Re: ArcotSign (was Re: Does security depend on hardware?)
In-Reply-To: <199809211030.FAA05159@mixer.visi.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Mon, 21 Sep 1998, Bruce Schneier wrote:

> Here's the basic idea:  Strew a million passwords on your hard drive, and
> make it impossible to verify which is the correct one offline.  So, someone
> who steals the password file off the client cannot run a cracking tool
> against the file.

Is this really patentable? It sounds a *lot* like the original public-key
algorithm (the one involving lots of little 'puzzles')

-Bram




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 15:32:25 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: RE: This is a listed crime?
Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A192846CF@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




>     silence 		obstruction of justice
>     false information	lying to a federal agent in course of ...
>     ...

Regarding the 5th amendment and other laws and precedence involving the
right to remain silent, the right against self-incrimination, etc, how
far could one carry that as an excuse to remain silent?

I mean I have no doubt given the number of laws and regulations on the
books that I will say something self-incriminating by some obscure law
and/or obscure interpretation every sixth or seventh sentence.


	Matt




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Alan Olsen 
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 00:58:16 +0800
To: "William H. Geiger III" 
Subject: Re: uk police and warrents
In-Reply-To: <199809201922.PAA09395@domains.invweb.net>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Sun, 20 Sep 1998, William H. Geiger III wrote:

> >The UK police are pushing for access to people's email _without_ having a
> >warrent.
> 
> >THey also want the ISPs to store everyone's mail for a week..
> 
> Encrypt everything and let them keep it as long as they want. :)

Until they come for your keys.  (Also without a warrent.)

alan@ctrl-alt-del.com | Note to AOL users: for a quick shortcut to reply
Alan Olsen            | to my mail, just hit the ctrl, alt and del keys.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: attila 
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 09:22:29 +0800
To: Information Security 
Subject: Re: This is a listed crime?
In-Reply-To: <199809210818.EAA08107@panix7.panix.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Mon, 21 Sep 1998, Information Security wrote:

>#   Bin Laden has suffered other setbacks recently. On Wednesday night, the
>#   FBI arrested Wadih el Hage, an Arlington, Texas man who law enforcement
>#   officials charge worked with bin Laden and Al-Din in Sudan, and with
>#   Fazil in Kenya from 1994 to 1997. He has been charged with lying to the
>#   FBI about his relationship with other bin Laden operatives, including a
>#   senior bin Laden lieutenant who drowned in a 1996 ferryboat accident in
>#   Tanzania.
>
>Is "lying to the FBI" a law on the books, or is the actual
>charge something else?
>---guy
>
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

  dont want to take the time to look up the 18 USC reference, but
  providing deliberately false information to _any_ federal agent 
  is a felony--  that includes the IRS. if nothing else, such as
  telling a federal agent to fuck-off, they will charge you with
  obstruction of justice.
  
  for all who think the Bill of Rights really means something, 
  consider:
  
    silence 		obstruction of justice
    false information	lying to a federal agent in course of ...
    ...
  
  too many to list; also, each of the regulatory agencies have
  their own courts and regulations which usurp the Congressional
  mandate for legislation of the Constitution. The regulatory
  courts have broad powers and their decisions, both criminal and
  civil, can be entered in Federal District Court; you, of course,
  have right of review in Federal District Court, for what that is
  worth --by the time you get that far in the procedings, you're
  out of money for the mandatory lawyers the original 13th amendment
  was created to prevent --the government has confiscated your
  property without due process, and before "conviction" under the
  seizure laws which permit them to grab assets at the time of
  the arrest --even if you are acquitted, there is little if any
  guarantee your property will be restored --if in the meantime
  it is sold at 10 cents on the dollar at auction, you may be 
  entitled to that dime.
  
  welcome to democracy in action.
  
  	attila out....
  

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0i for non-commercial use
Comment: No safety this side of the grave. Never was; never will be.
Charset: noconv

iQA/AwUBNgZfzz7vNMDa3ztrEQIwlwCdGMfStrZLM9b3QFss95M/oxiuUHQAn1s9
ETc8Fr1fsDRoBjwZlFvKlBK5
=QsY1
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


__________________________________________________________________________
    go not unto usenet for advice, for the inhabitants thereof will say:
      yes, and no, and maybe, and I don't know, and fuck-off.
_________________________________________________________________ attila__

    To be a ruler of men, you need at least 12 inches....
    There is no safety this side of the grave.  Never was; never will be.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 14:42:05 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Clinton's fake apologies (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980920152605.0086ba30@205.83.192.13>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 2:14 PM -0500 9/21/98, Michael Motyka wrote:
>Petro wrote:
>>
>> At 11:50 AM -0500 9/21/98, Michael Motyka wrote:
>> >Starr's base approach to justice is the opening shot of what I hope
>> >turns into an all-out scorched-earth battle. Let 'em all fall down. I'm
>> >just afraid that when it's over the only people who will be willing to
>> >run for public office will be truly dangerous people who have no respect
>> >for liberty not of their own definition.
>>
>>         Which is different from today how?
>>
>In spite of their  shortcomings, many of today's politicians
>in both parties seem to be fairly pragmatic, 'middle of the road' types.
>If the only people who can pass muster under the emerging standards are
>religous fundamentalists then we will have a Bill of Rights under attack
>problem that is another order of magnitude greater than we have right
>now. Scares me because while I'm pretty much a live and let live sort,
>some of the fundamentalists I've known are not very tolerant.

	The "live and let" attitude of todays politician is there simply
because that is where they get the most votes. If they thought that they
would get better results, they's thump the bible just as hard as say...

	Jimmy Swagart.

--
petro@playboy.com----for work related issues. I don't speak for Playboy.
petro@bounty.org-----for everthing else.      They wouldn't like that.
                                              They REALLY
Economic speech IS political speech.          wouldn't like that.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: info@survey.com
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 17:37:02 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: CyberPoll Results - The Starr Report
Message-ID: <199809211435.OAA02024@survey.survey.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Thank you for participating in our recent CyberPoll about the Starr Report.  The results are in!  You can access them at http://www.cyberpoll.com/starrresults.html.  

Would you like to participate in our follow-up CyberPoll about the Clinton Tapes?  If so, please go to http://www.cyberpoll.com/clintontapes.html.

Thank you again for your participation.

World Research, Inc.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Duncan Frissell 
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 13:33:30 +0800
To: attila 
Subject: Re: This is a listed crime?
In-Reply-To: <199809210818.EAA08107@panix7.panix.com>
Message-ID: <199809211834.OAA20729@mail1.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 02:22 PM 9/21/98 +0000, attila wrote:
>  dont want to take the time to look up the 18 USC reference, but
>  providing deliberately false information to _any_ federal agent 
>  is a felony--  that includes the IRS. 

True

>  if nothing else, such as
>  telling a federal agent to fuck-off, they will charge you with
>  obstruction of justice.

False.  You are never required to talk to a peace officer, Fed, or
investigator unless you want to.  They can arrest you of course (with
probable cause ha ha).  Even then, you still don't have to talk to them.
In criminal cases you *never* have to talk to anyone.

>  too many to list; also, each of the regulatory agencies have
>  their own courts and regulations which usurp the Congressional
>  mandate for legislation of the Constitution. The regulatory
>  courts have broad powers and their decisions, both criminal and
>  civil, can be entered in Federal District Court; 

The agencies have no criminal adjudicatory power (aside from a few odd
circumstances).  They can seize property of course (if you have it where it
can be seized) but they (mostly) can't lock you up.

>  you, of course,
>  have right of review in Federal District Court, for what that is
>  worth --by the time you get that far in the procedings, you're
>  out of money for the mandatory lawyers the original 13th amendment
>  was created to prevent 

Lawyers aren't mandatory.  Colin Ferguson defended himself on nine murder
counts without one (and lost).  The Long Island Railroad gunman.

DCF




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 15:10:16 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Stego-empty hard drives...
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 2:06 PM -0500 9/21/98, Michael Motyka wrote:
>Robert Hettinga wrote:
>> Stegoing an encrypted partition as "blank" hard drive space without
>> actually writing over it unless you wanted to?
>>
>A freshly formatted partition has a fill value. Noise would indicate
>that is is not fresh. This would not be proof that it contained
>encrypted data but it would indicate some sort of use.
>
>Another layer:
>	create a partition.
>	Use it as an archive for 'unclassified' materials.
>	At some point after the use has fragmented it enough to look real:
>		disable all automatic accesses ( temp files, caches ... )
>to the
>partition
>		create an application program that uses the unused space as
>a secure
>filesystem
>
>Then the partition would be arguably "in normal use" and it could get
>tough to prove the nature of the unused space. You could even leave some
>space filled with the format fill value. Not sure how to hide the app.
>maybe as passphrased option in some innocuous custom application.
>Accounting app?

	Passphrase at startup. One phrase allows access to the "stego'd" areas,
the other allows access to the "cover" areas.

	This wouldn't stand source code inspection, but if you used some
sort of Pretty Lousy Privacy on the "cover" data, and an uncompromised
crypto on the rest you might pass all but the most rigourous investigation.

	Of course, if you are getting an extremely rigourous investigation,
you don't need good crypto, you need good PR, and a good lawyer because
they WILL find something, unless they think hanging your butt will cause
riots.


--
Five seconds later, I'm getting the upside of 15Kv across the nipples.
(These ambulance guys sure know how to party).
The Ideal we strive for: http://www.iinet.net.au/~bofh/bofh/bofh11.html
No, I don't speak for playboy, They wouldn't like that. They really wouldn't.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: attila 
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 10:31:20 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: atheism (was: RE: Democracy... (fwd)) (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199809202202.RAA14798@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Sun, 20 Sep 1998, Jim Choate wrote:

>Forwarded message:
>
>> From: pjm@spe.com
>> Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 20:13:38 +0200
>> Subject: atheism (was: RE: Democracy... (fwd)) (fwd)
>>
   [snip]

>No, atheism is the statement that "God could exist, but doesn't". Whether
>one chooses to hang 'Bhuddism' or 'Wiccan' on is irrelevant. We aren't
>discussion labels but rather characteristics. Fundamentaly *ALL* atheism
>states:
>
>While it could happen that way, I don't believe it does.
>
>Which is identical in meaning to:
>
>While it could happen that way, I believe it doesn't.
>
>>      Getting back to the strong v. weak distinction, the weak atheist
>> position that one "does not believe god(s) exist" does not constitute
>> a belief, a set of beliefs, or a personal philosophy, let alone a
>> religion.  The strong atheist position that one "believes god(s) do
>> not exist" is actually making a knowledge claim and so does constitute
>> a belief.
>
>Try to sell that spin-doctor bullshit to somebody else, and read a book on
>basic logic.
>
    agreed, the strong v. weak atheist argument is _impossible_. 
    
    however, an interesting premise I posited to my 14 year old son
    who had gone through his scientific awareness state and
    consequently declared himself an "aethist". at the time he was in
    a boarding school and we were in conversation with the chief
    counselor who happened to be a member of an LDS bishopric:
      
      kid:	  yes, an aethist.
      
      father:	  so... you "deny" God's existence since their is no
      		  "proof" of His existence. did you ever consider that in
      		  order to "deny" anything, you must have defined that
      		  concept?  in other words, to deny God, you must have
      		  determined that I or someone else has defined God in
      		  order for you to be able to "deny" God?
      ...
      counselor:  is there a difference between belief and faith?
      
      ...
      father:	  aethism is a concept which is almost impossible to
      		  define as it is a denial that if it could it doesnt.
      		  it is much easier to defend "agnosticism" where you
      		  admit you do not believe, or have faith, because you
      		  lack sufficient scientific proof. aethism is not
     		  doubting, it is denying, even in the face of proof.
      
      		  consider this in terms of both belief and faith:
		  
		  suppose you die, and despite your lack of belief or
		  faith, you find yourself before the throne of God.
		  
		  as your awareness returns, you look up and the image
		  of God is the image of an orangutan --now what are
		  you going to do?
		  
    without missing a heartbeat:
		  
      counselor:  I think you better get down on your knees and pray!

    I seriously thought I would face an LDS disciplinary council for
    that spontaneous off-the-wall comment. I didn't, but I have rocked
    more than a few boats. and, it does point out the extent to which
    belief is based on faith. to the literalists who point to Genesis
    and "God created man in his own image" I always suggest that God
    in the process could have refined homo sapiens over the years and 
    the original creation may have been significantly more endowed
    with hair; secondly, God can appear to man in any form He chooses:
    the burning bush, the blinding light to Saul, etc.
    
    however, stating beliefs and disbeliefs is fine; trying to convince
    another whose beliefs or disbeliefs are securely anchored in whatever
    they believe as truth, is futile. I will accept, without trying to
    change, anyone's "religious" beliefs as their beliefs; I only ask 
    they extend the same tolerance to me.
    
	attila out...

>
    [snip]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0i for non-commercial use
Comment: No safety this side of the grave. Never was; never will be.
Charset: noconv

iQA/AwUBNgZuCj7vNMDa3ztrEQLR7gCg7cqx1bA29pe+fBCb7DcyPundpGsAn39U
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=gsVI
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: galliart 
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 15:46:10 +0800
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: Fw: Domain Hosting Priced Right.
Message-ID: <3606B6EC46.AD37GALLIART@mail.swbell.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





Forwarded by galliart 
---------------- Original message follows ----------------
 From: sales@wi-ks.com
 To: galliart@swbell.net
 Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 16:21:49 -0400
 Subject: Domain Hosting Priced Right.
--

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by auto request mail.
this was sent to you because of someone requested this email.
To be removed, click reply with REMOVE in the subject line.
_____________________________________________________________________





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 15:04:17 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: US Complaints in Embassy Bombings
Message-ID: <199809212005.QAA04784@camel14.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



We offer three of the US complaints in the embassy
bombings:

   http://jya.com/usa-v-qaeda.htm

These describe charges against Wadih el Hage, Mohamed 
Sadeek Odeh and Haroun Fazil, filed in New York's
Southern District.

El Hage is the American arrested last week that Guy 
referred to with the "This is a listed crime?" thread.

NYT reports on El Hage and Fazil:

   http://jya.com/fazil-el-hage.htm

Odeh is the first suspect arrested at the Pakistani 
border.

Fazil is an explosives expert charged with making the Nairobi 
bomb and directing the op. He is a fugitive with a $2m reward 
offered.

All are allegedly members of Qaeda, Bin Laden's "international
terrorist" group aiming to kill Yanks worldwide for Echelon-type
stuff.

Know who's with Jim and CJ at Springfield? Blind Sheik Omar
of World Trade Center bombing fame and Mafioso John Gotti, 
who nearly croaked from lack of dental care at another pen.

The place has a distinguished history. See its honor roll on
Alta Vista. Search "Medical Facility for Federal Prisoners."






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Duncan Frissell 
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 15:01:46 +0800
To: Michael Motyka 
Subject: Re: Clinton's fake apologies (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980920152605.0086ba30@205.83.192.13>
Message-ID: <199809212002.QAA03936@mail1.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 09:50 AM 9/21/98 -0700, Michael Motyka wrote:

>Completely illogical. Give me one good reason not to lead with your best
>punch? I suspect Starr's work is voluminous but weak on all other counts
>so he led with what would create the most publicity. 

Starr did an Impeachment Referral with the stuff he had incontrovertible
proof of.  Proof is very difficult when dealing with someone like Clinton
and you don't want to do a Referral with insufficient proof.  Notice that
even with proof of multiple felonies the Clintonistas say that they aren't
important felonies.

>I've said that I'm
>no great fan of Clinton's but this entire investigation is blatantly
>partisan and has brought the political process in this country about as
>low as it is possible to bring it. 

The Special Counsel was appointed at the request of the President after 6
Democrat Senators called for it.  Republicans don't like Clinton but they
don't have to.  

>Starr's base approach to justice is the opening shot of what I hope
>turns into an all-out scorched-earth battle. 

He's just behaving in the way the Democrats designed the OIC to behave.  A
prosecutor on speed with no boss and no budget.  That was their intent.  US
Attorneys or local DAs would behave the same way if they had the cash.  Law
& Order Liberals like Clinton can hardly complain.  Better him than some
18-year-old drug lookout sentenced to 40 years or some accident-free drunk
driver sentenced to life (Texas recently).

>Let 'em all fall down. I'm
>just afraid that when it's over the only people who will be willing to
>run for public office will be truly dangerous people who have no respect
>for liberty not of their own definition.

Like Clinton, right?  I certainly like to see the damage to the Presidency.
 We also don't have to worry about any tobacco legislation for a few years.  

DCF

"We'll give you more than you deserve.  We'll give you Justice."




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Sunder 
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 15:11:51 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Stego-empty hard drives...
In-Reply-To: <199809192012.WAA05755@replay.com>
Message-ID: <3606B18A.C95F4F0A@brainlink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Anonymous wrote:

> Once they realize people are doing this, they will begin taking hashes or
> some other record of the blank space. The next time you are scanned by
> customs, they pull the record and compare the previous "blank"  space with
> the current "blank" space. If they don't match, you're suspect.
> 
> They still cannot prove that you're carrying hidden data. They ask you if
> you know what stego is. They ask you if you have hidden data on your
> drive. If you say yes, they demand to see it. If you say no, they say
> "Okay, then it should be no problem if we push the wipe button on our
> program, should it?"
> 
> If they start doing that they have still won, because now you are not
> carrying the data across the border or the data is destroyed as you cross
> the border.

What's this bullshit, eh?  Just overwrite the BIOS roms in your machine to
return all zeros for the sectors you don't want to show them.  Have some
special passphrase you have to type in while in the BIOS setup program to
deactivate this.  Most newer notebooks have flash upgradeable ROMs anyway.

Better yet, simply have it report a drive size that's much smaller than what
you really have.  i.e. install a 4gb drive, but have the bios only see it as a
1gb disk.  When software tries to read or write beyond the 1gb space, have it
return errors like a real disk would.

Anyone who knows x86 assembly can do this sort of shit.  If you want to get
real wicked on this or are afraid they'll have software that talks directly to
the IDE controller, take apart the disk controller card on the drive itself
and give it this type of functionality (much harder.)  Hell, even if they
switch to taking out your hard drive out of your notebook and duplicating it,
as long as the HD itself reports LESS space than it really has, they can't get
to it, they can't scan it, they can't copy it, they can't overwrite it.

Don't want to do that or can't?  Okay, boot their software in a Virtual CPU
box, and if they try to access I/O directly, have your code intercept and
emulate the access.  They try to run privilidged opcodes, trap'em and make it
look like they're running fine, etc...

Let's get this nice and clear once and for all: Software running on untrusted
(i.e. your notebook) hardware cannot be trusted as it can be fooled and
modified by it.  It doesn't matter how sophisticated their scanning software is
as long as the hardware DOESN'T COMPLY with it's requests.  Software always
asks the hardware to do things for it.  The hardware doesn't have to obey. :)

The solution to getting around this bullshit is in hardware or firmware.

I will ignore Anon's idiotic idea of them comparing blank space before and
after.  That's stupid for one of several very obvious reason: temp files.  If
that's not clear enough, here's another: defrag.

-- 

=====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos==============
.+.^.+.|       Sunder       |Prying open my 3rd eye.  So good to see |./|\.
..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were      |/\|/\
<--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run  |\/|\/
../|\..| "A toast to Odin,  |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/.
.+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were....            |.....
======================= http://www.sundernet.com ==========================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bruce Schneier 
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 16:30:36 +0800
To: bram 
Subject: Re: ArcotSign (was Re: Does security depend on hardware?)
In-Reply-To: <199809211030.FAA05159@mixer.visi.com>
Message-ID: <199809212125.QAA25140@mixer.visi.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 01:32 PM 9/21/98 -0700, bram wrote:
>On Mon, 21 Sep 1998, Bruce Schneier wrote:
>
>> Here's the basic idea:  Strew a million passwords on your hard drive, and
>> make it impossible to verify which is the correct one offline.  So, someone
>> who steals the password file off the client cannot run a cracking tool
>> against the file.
>
>Is this really patentable? It sounds a *lot* like the original public-key
>algorithm (the one involving lots of little 'puzzles')

I am not an attorney, so I cannot advise on patentability.  But note that
I simplified the explanation A LOT in the above paragraph.

Bruce
**********************************************************************
Bruce Schneier, President, Counterpane Systems     Phone: 612-823-1098
101 E Minnehaha Parkway, Minneapolis, MN  55419      Fax: 612-823-1590
           Free crypto newsletter.  See:  http://www.counterpane.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "sixdegrees"
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 15:46:17 +0800
To: "monkeyboy cypher-prik"
Subject: Your sixdegrees Member Update
Message-ID: <199809212030.NAA20024@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Dear monkeyboy,

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Duncan Frissell 
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 15:28:41 +0800
To: Michael Motyka 
Subject: Re: Clinton's fake apologies (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980920152605.0086ba30@205.83.192.13>
Message-ID: <199809212028.QAA07893@mail1.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 12:14 PM 9/21/98 -0700, Michael Motyka wrote:

>In spite of their  shortcomings, many of today's politicians
>in both parties seem to be fairly pragmatic, 'middle of the road' types.
>If the only people who can pass muster under the emerging standards are
>religous fundamentalists then we will have a Bill of Rights under attack
>problem that is another order of magnitude greater than we have right
>now. Scares me because while I'm pretty much a live and let live sort,
>some of the fundamentalists I've known are not very tolerant. 
>
>Mike

The commies I've known are even less tolerant:

>From: OBRL-News 
>To: obrl-news@lists.village.Virginia.EDU
>Subject:- FDA Book-Burning... Again!
>
>Orgone Biophysical Research Lab 
>http://id.mind.net/community/orgonelab/index.htm
>Forwarded News Item
>
>Please copy and distribute to other interested individuals and groups
>
>**********
>
>>         FDA Orders Destruction of Stevia Books
>>
>>On May 20, 1998, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA)
>>ordered the destuction of 2,500 books about the herbal sweetener
>>stevia. A small company in Arlington Texas, Stevita, Co., was
>>visited by the FDA and forced to stop selling stevia and books
>>that mention that stevia can be used as a sweetener.

Just another regulatory book burning.  (Oops, book *pulping* burning is
environmentally incorrect.

There are plenty of commies itching to fine me, fire me, or lock me up for
criticizing congresscritters within 6 months of an election (campaign
finance reform), refusing to attend their re-education and self criticism
sessions (racial/sexual harassment awareness training), or mailing a number
10 envelope customers (illegal medical device labeling - I kid you not). 

A fundie admin would issue fewer total regs than a commie-liberal admin
(experience suggests) so freedom would be in better shape on balance.
Chart the annual pages of the Federal Register issued by Dems vs Reps.
Dems are *way* out in front.  Taxes would almost certainly be lower
(Clinton's are the highest in peacetime history).

I wouldn't worry.  If we survived Clinton we can survive the Republicans.
Meanwhile the Presidency has been weakened.

DCF


 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Steve Bryan 
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 17:20:47 +0800
To: Michael Motyka 
Subject: Re: Clinton's fake apologies (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980920152605.0086ba30@205.83.192.13>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>Petro wrote:
>>
>> At 11:50 AM -0500 9/21/98, Michael Motyka wrote:
>> >Starr's base approach to justice is the opening shot of what I hope
>> >turns into an all-out scorched-earth battle. Let 'em all fall down. I'm
>> >just afraid that when it's over the only people who will be willing to
>> >run for public office will be truly dangerous people who have no respect
>> >for liberty not of their own definition.
>>
>>         Which is different from today how?
>>
>In spite of their  shortcomings, many of today's politicians
>in both parties seem to be fairly pragmatic, 'middle of the road' types.
>If the only people who can pass muster under the emerging standards are
>religous fundamentalists then we will have a Bill of Rights under attack
>problem that is another order of magnitude greater than we have right
>now. Scares me because while I'm pretty much a live and let live sort,
>some of the fundamentalists I've known are not very tolerant.
>
>Mike

I know it's a mistake to reply to this stuff but it would be nice for
someone to maintain the context. Clinton was on trial for sexual
harrassment. When giving testimony under oath he chose to lie in order to
cover his own ass. I don't much care about the private lives of politicians
but I do care how they behave in public places like courts of law. That is
what he is trouble for, not for his filandering proclivities which were
public known before he became president. Just to help the Clintonites
understand: "It's about perjury, stupid!"

Steve Bryan
Vendorsystems International
email: sbryan@vendorsystems.com
icq: 5263678
pgp fingerprint: D758 183C 8B79 B28E 6D4C  2653 E476 82E6 DA7C 9AC5





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 17:19:46 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: This is a listed crime? (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809212245.RAA18928@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: Matthew James Gering 
> Subject: RE: This is a listed crime?
> Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 13:32:19 -0700

> Regarding the 5th amendment and other laws and precedence involving the
> right to remain silent, the right against self-incrimination, etc, how
> far could one carry that as an excuse to remain silent?

As far as ones convictions and intestinal fortitude will take them.

Simply tell them you won't answer any of their questions, you'd like to make
your phone call *now*, and you want to see a judge *now*.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: attila 
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 12:57:54 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: This is a listed crime?
In-Reply-To: <199809211700.MAA17197@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Mon, 21 Sep 1998, Jim Choate wrote:

>
>>   dont want to take the time to look up the 18 USC reference, but
>>   providing deliberately false information to _any_ federal agent 
>>   is a felony--  that includes the IRS. if nothing else, such as
>>   telling a federal agent to fuck-off, they will charge you with
>>   obstruction of justice.
>
>The trick is to tell them you are using your Constitutional right to refuse
>to answer under the 5th. At that point they can arrest you, and you get
>protection via a lawyer and the other processes, or they can go away. If
>after this responce they continue to ask you question they are in fact
>harassing you and you can press charges for that.
>
    agreed, in theory. but how do you protect yourself when two or more
    take the stand and swear under oath that you said: "......" or, even:
    "I dont know nuthin' 'bout it" --which has already been interpreted
    to a lie it can be proved to a material witness, etc.
    
    dealing with the Feds is very similiar to the pecking order of traffic
    which was suggest to me once in Zuerich:
    
    	trolleys
    	lorries
    	buses
    	natives
    
    presume the man with a badge and a gun is a native. the burden of
    proof is on you that an agent of our honest, democratically elected
    government is harassing you. I have seen clear evidence of wiretapping
    presented, the judge called two gestapos to the stand, and asked them
    point blank: "did you wiretap [authorized or unauthoized], or were 
    you aware of a wiretap; or did you receive reliable or unreliable
    information which might have been only obtainable by wiretap or
    bugging?" and watch both agents straight face lie --one going so
    far as to say: "no, your Honor, that would be against the law.
    
    in the same vein of evidence: why do "officers of the law" carry an
    extra Saturday Night Special? --in case they drop someone, they can
    justify their assassination on the basis the deceased was armed and
    dangerous; or, why does a wanted poster for a meek bean counter who
    disappeared after touching his employer say: "presume armed and 
    dangerous"? --covers LEOs if they drop the miscreant on sight.
    
    the intent of the laws should be evident to everyone. the reality of
    the laws is the rules of evidence are heavily loaded in favour of
    the armed and dangerous officers sworn to uphold the law --as they
    see fit. a little old lady who only walks to the store and to church
    can be busted for something --be creative.
    
    the U.S. legal system has been distorted to the point it could
    easily be considered the enforcement arm of a totalitarian state.
    I do consider we have had a valid government since 08 Mar 1933 when
    FDR, 4 days after his inaugeration hoodwinked Congress into make
    'us' the enemy in the Trading With the Enemy Act of 1917, validating
    the executive order, and declaring a national emergency. all three
    actions still stand -the national emergency continues.
    
    the American theory is wonderful; the American experience not always
    so wonderful.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0i for non-commercial use
Comment: No safety this side of the grave. Never was; never will be.
Charset: noconv

iQA/AwUBNgaRlj7vNMDa3ztrEQJZqQCgrmq55Z0oX7grZURPfY8G8qWyU5IAnjvw
ZdQyAZK10TYHumCKvTgjZxXo
=HJaz
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Douglas Hoover 
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 19:56:02 +0800
To: coderpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: ArcotSign (was Re: Does security depend on hardware?)
In-Reply-To: <199809211030.FAA05159@mixer.visi.com>
Message-ID: <3606F570.FFFDDA3C@arcot.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

In response to the interest indicated by the discussion on coderpunks/cipherpunks
mailing lists, we have put a technical note about the Arcot key container
("software smart card") on our site at:

        http://www.arcot.com/camo2.html

We would appreciate your comments.

This note doesn't tell everything about our method--we *are* developing a
commercial product, after all--but we hope that it will suffice to show
knowledgeable readers our main ideas and convince them that a software key
container that provides protection similar to that of a smart card is in fact
possible.

I should remark that:

- Arcot key protection does not depend on making client-side
  software complicated or on keeping the algorithms secret.  It
  depends on making it hard for an attacker to tell when he has
  cracked it, by keeping information that the attacker might use
  to identify the private key out of his reach (such as the
  public key).

- Consequently, there are significant restrictions on the
  situations in which Arcot key protection works.  For example:

  - It isn't useful for encryption.
  - It isn't good for stranger-to-stranger authentication.
  - It is good for authenticating yourself to your bank, an
    online merchant with whom you have an account, or to your
    employer.

- Like smartcards, it provides two-factor authentication--you
  need to have the key container and know the password in order
  to authenticate.  Its key protection is slightly weaker because
  it is easier to steal (just copy) a card without the theft being
  noticed.

- Of course, the crypto has to be done in software.  If your
  application warrants that level of paranoia, then maybe you
  really should be using hardware--but are you sure that your
  smart card is really signing the document you think it
  is?   Most commercial applications don't warrant this level
  of paranoia.  And hardware costs money.


Regards,

Doug Hoover



begin:          vcard
fn:             Douglas Hoover
n:              Hoover;Douglas
org:            Arcot Systems
adr:            2197 Bayshore Rd;;;Palo Alto;CA;94303;US
email;internet: doug@arcot.com
tel;work:       650 470-8203
tel;fax:        650 470-8208
x-mozilla-cpt:  ;0
x-mozilla-html: TRUE
version:        2.1
end:            vcard




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 17:53:19 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: atheism (was: RE: Democracy... (fwd)) (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809212320.SAA19200@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: Matthew James Gering 
> Subject: RE: atheism (was: RE: Democracy... (fwd)) (fwd)
> Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 13:09:30 -0700

> Jim Choate wrote:
> > As I've demonstrated before (and for the last time):
> > 
> > ^(A) = (^A)
> 
> f() = belief function
> A = hypothesis
> ^ = not
> 
> f(^A) != ^f(A)

Prove it.

The f in your f() is redundant, but I can work with it.

Simply stating it over and over isn't proof.

We're doing Boolean Algebra here not Algebra, the rules for transitory
functions are different.

I'll even do you a favor and list the Boolean Laws and Theorems for you:

1)	X+0=X				X*1=X
2)	X+1=1				X*0=0
3)	X+X=X				X*X=X
4)	(X')'=X
5)	X+X'=X				X*X'=0
6)	X+Y=Y+X				X*Y=Y*X
7)	(X+Y)+Z=X+(Y+Z)			(XY)Z=X(YZ)=XYZ
	       =X+Y+Z
8)	X(Y+Z)=XY+XZ			X+YZ=(X+Y)*(X+Z)
9)	XY+XY'=X			(X+Y)*(X+Y')=X
10)	X+XY=X				X(X+Y)=X
11)	(X+Y')Y=XY			XY'+Y=X+Y
12)	(X+Y+Z+...)'=X'Y'Z'...		(XYX...)'=X'+Y'+Z'+...
13)	[f(X1, X2, X3,...,0,1,+,*)]'= f(X1', X2', X3',...,1,0,*,+)
{The following two are called Duality Theorems, not important here}
14)	(X+Y+Z+...)^D = XYZ...		(XYZ...)^D=X+Y+Z+...
15)	[f(X1, X2, X3, ...,0,1,+,*)]^D=f(X1, X2, X3,...,1,0,*,+)
16)	XY+YZ+X'Z=XY+X'Z		(X+Y)*(Y+Z)*(X'+Z)=(X+Y)*(X'+Z)
17)	(X+Y)(X'+Z)=XZ+X'Y
 
The ones you and your dualist-atheism buddies are confused on are #4, #12,
& #13.

By #4 we have:

^(X)=(^X)

By #12 we have:

^(X)=^X

By #13 we have:

^f(X) = f(^X)

All are clearly contrary to your assertion.

Balls in your court junior.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 17:56:08 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Stego-empty hard drives... (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809212323.SAA19241@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 16:05:30 -0400
> From: Sunder 
> Subject: Re: Stego-empty hard drives...

> What's this bullshit, eh?  Just overwrite the BIOS roms in your machine to
> return all zeros for the sectors you don't want to show them.  Have some
> special passphrase you have to type in while in the BIOS setup program to
> deactivate this.  Most newer notebooks have flash upgradeable ROMs anyway.

What's this bullshit, eh?

I wonder how you propose to answer the question:

"Sir, exactly why are you typing that sentence into the computer at this
time?"

Now we have not only given them probably cause but clear evidence for a
prior intent to commit a crime. Even if your hard drive is clean they're
going to bust your ass.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 17:58:25 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Alone (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809212325.SAA19295@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 18:38:16 -0400
> From: Robert Hettinga 
> Subject: Alone

> 
> "...it depends on how you define 'alone'.".
> 
> Alone enough to get a blowjob?
> 

That depends Bob, can you bend over that far?


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 17:59:10 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Alone (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809212326.SAA19342@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Hi Bob,

Sorry, nothing personal but with an opening like that I couldn't help
myself. Please forgive me.
 
Forwarded message:

> From: Jim Choate 
> Subject: Alone (fwd)
> Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 18:25:01 -0500 (CDT)

> Forwarded message:
> 
> > Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 18:38:16 -0400
> > From: Robert Hettinga 
> > Subject: Alone
> 
> > 
> > "...it depends on how you define 'alone'.".
> > 
> > Alone enough to get a blowjob?
> > 
> 
> That depends Bob, can you bend over that far?
> 


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 18:03:44 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Clinton's fake apologies (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809212328.SAA19426@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 16:03:50 -0400
> From: Duncan Frissell 
> Subject: Re: Clinton's fake apologies (fwd)

> and you don't want to do a Referral with insufficient proof.  Notice that
> even with proof of multiple felonies the Clintonistas say that they aren't
> important felonies.

Next time somebody gets busted for possession with intent they need to make
reference to this case...

"But ladies and gentlemen of the jury, as our President has claimed and
clearly demonstrated by his remaining in office, for a person to be
convicted on a felony it has to be an important felony. The defence has not
proven that this felony has sufficient weight for prosecution. You have no
choice but to aquit my client."


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 17:44:44 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: My favorite Clinton Quote from Today...
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



"I'm trying to be honest with you, and it hurts me."

:-).

"I am not a crook."?

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga

-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 17:45:15 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Alone
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980921164331.00855a10@telepath.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Clinton:

"...it depends on how you define 'alone'.".

Alone enough to get a blowjob?

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga

-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 18:23:17 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: atheism (was: RE: Democracy... (fwd)) (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809212348.SAA19564@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 15:18:28 +0000 (GMT)
> From: attila 
> Subject: Re: atheism (was: RE: Democracy... (fwd)) (fwd)

>       father:	  so... you "deny" God's existence since their is no
>       		  "proof" of His existence. did you ever consider that in
>       		  order to "deny" anything, you must have defined that
>       		  concept?  in other words, to deny God, you must have
>       		  determined that I or someone else has defined God in
>       		  order for you to be able to "deny" God?

So, what has the issue of defining something got to do with its existance?
Is this bozo really claiming that God can only exist unless somebody thinks
him up? Sounds like religous hubris to me...

God was shinning on this asshole that he never had to argue face to face
with me at that age...

>       counselor:  is there a difference between belief and faith?

The spelling.

>       father:	  aethism is a concept which is almost impossible to
>       		  define as it is a denial that if it could it doesnt.
>       		  it is much easier to defend "agnosticism" where you
>       		  admit you do not believe, or have faith, because you
>       		  lack sufficient scientific proof. aethism is not
>      		  doubting, it is denying, even in the face of proof.

Agnosticism has *nothing* to do with scientific proof. It existed eons
before anyone even thought of the scientific method. Skepticism is a part of
human nature, not philosophy, beliefs, or science.

Atheism is saying that while God could exist he doesn't. In other words it
is the belief that God doesn't exist and can't be proven contrary. There is
a fundamental belief that all proofs are flawed.

Agnosticism is the inability to believe one way or the other. It could be
characterized by a total lack of faith in anything (assuming one doesn't
want to argue about the meaning of 'total' and 'anything'). What keeps
agnosticism appart from nearly all other beliefs is that it is really trying
to answer two question and not one (Does God exist?), they are:

1.	Does God exist?

2.	Do I believe the proof in 1.?

It is the embodyment of skeptiscism. The fact that most religions that
accept 1. accept 2. as a given is why they are hubric.

> 		  suppose you die, and despite your lack of belief or
> 		  faith, you find yourself before the throne of God.

My own personal suspicion is he's going to ask you whether you lived your
beliefs even in the face of overwhelming opposition. As long as you say
"Yes" he's going to be a happy camper.

To borrow a Christian icon, he's going to want to know if you worshiped
false idols.

>     they believe as truth, is futile. I will accept, without trying to
>     change, anyone's "religious" beliefs as their beliefs; I only ask 
>     they extend the same tolerance to me.

Ditto.

Since this doesn't particular avenue has little more to be said I'm going to
drop it.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Edwin E. Smith" 
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 18:40:36 +0800
To: "Jean-Francois Avon" 
Subject: Re: [short] Updated quote from Allan Rock
In-Reply-To: <199809211555.LAA10768@cti06.citenet.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980921190749.00803ac0@mailhost.IntNet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I wonder if this fellow would allow that the protection of HIS life 
is "NOT a legitimate use for a firearm...".

Edwin

At 11:51 AM 9/21/98 -0400, you wrote:
>This is the complete quote from Alan Rock, then justice minister who 
pushed 
>the gun control, registration and confiscation bill (C-68).
>
>
>"I came to Ottawa with the firm belief that the only people in this
>country who should have guns are police officers and soldiers."
>
>-- Allan Rock, Canada's Minister of Justice, quoted in _Maclean's_
>        "Taking Aim on Guns", April 25, 1994, page 12.
>
>
>"... protection of life is NOT a legitimate use for a firearm 
>     in this country sir! Not! That is expressly ruled out!". 
> 
>  Justice Minister Allan Rock
>  "Canadian justice issues, a town hall meeting"
>  Producer - Joanne Levy,   
>  Shaw cable, Calgary (403) 250-2885
>  Taped at the Triwood community centre in Calgary Dec.1994 
>
>
>
>
>Jean-Francois Avon, B.Sc. Physics, Montreal, Canada
>
>  JFA Technologies, R&D physicists & engineers
>     Instrumentation & control, LabView programming
>PGP keys: http://bs.mit.edu:8001/pks-toplev.html
>PGP ID:C58ADD0D:529645E8205A8A5E F87CC86FAEFEF891 
>PGP ID:5B51964D:152ACCBCD4A481B0 254011193237822C
>
>
>
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0
Charset: noconv

iQA/AwUBNgbcREmNf6b56PAtEQK1HwCg8c13Fm/FwvER+tyF91TftxptnfsAn3cD
LWRAAWlwA6853SWDAjNZgSbB
=932g
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 18:42:11 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: [short] Updated quote from Allan Rock (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809220010.TAA19732@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 19:07:49 -0400
> From: "Edwin E. Smith" 
> Subject: Re: [short] Updated quote from Allan Rock 

> I wonder if this fellow would allow that the protection of HIS life 
> is "NOT a legitimate use for a firearm...".

It is further clear the police don't carry them for their own protection
either. Wonder why they do carry them?...


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 21:53:19 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Have a cigar
In-Reply-To: <360683E5.26C6@lsil.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 1:03 PM -0700 9/21/98, Duncan Frissell wrote:

>
>Like Clinton, right?  I certainly like to see the damage to the Presidency.
> We also don't have to worry about any tobacco legislation for a few years.
>

Yep. Give the man a cigar.

The paralysis of the U.S. government is heartwarming. No talk about sending
troops to Kosovo, no plans to give the IMF more money to send to Russian
and Wall Street mafiosos (mafiosi?), no talk of sending life preservers to
the tens of millions of Bengalis drowning and sinking into the muck in
Dacca, and not much of anything else.

I love it.

--Tim May

(This space left blank pending determ. of acceptability to the gov't.)
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 19:48:08 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Stego-empty hard drives... (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809220116.UAA20070@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 00:46:03 +0000
> From: Michael Hohensee 
> Subject: Re: Stego-empty hard drives... (fwd)

> I believe that the idea was to set it up so that BIOS defaults to
> HD-hiding mode.

How do you propose to do this? Via a BIOS setting?

> When you're taking your laptop through customs, you do
> nothing while the machine boots up, the doctored BIOS does its thing,
> and everybody's happy.  When you want to get at the stuff on the rest of
> the HD, you reboot and type in your passphrase.

How do you propose to prompt the user for the correct time to type?


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Lucky Green" 
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 22:49:04 +0800
To: "Nick Szabo" 
Subject: RE: ArcotSign (was Re: Does security depend on hardware?)
In-Reply-To: <199809220131.SAA11293@shell7.ba.best.com>
Message-ID: <001201bde5dc$6ed105c0$1330c4c2@cypherpunks.aec.at>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Nick,

I am somewhat puzzled by your response. Do you assert that a software based
solution, executed on a general purpose CPU under a general purpose OS, can
afford the same protection of whatever the secret in question may be as a
hardware token, such as a smartcard? A hardware token lacking the very API
to extract the secret through software based attacks?

If so, could you please share with us the revolutionary breakthrough in
computer science that negates the effect of decompilers and runtime
debuggers on Arcot's software?

Furthermore, how do you consolidate the claim on Arcot's website that
"ArcotSignTM [...] offers [hardware solution] tamper resistance in software"
with the statement by Arcot's very own cryptographic advisor, Bruce
Schneier, that "Of course. It's less secure than hardware solutions".

Perhaps I have worked in this industry for too long to fully adjust to the
novel genius displayed in "virtual one-time pads", "virtual smartcards", and
"virtual security".

Thanks,
--Lucky Green 
  PGP 5.x  encrypted email preferred

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-cryptography@c2.net [mailto:owner-cryptography@c2.net]On
> Behalf Of Nick Szabo
> Sent: Monday, September 21, 1998 18:31
> To: rdl@MIT.EDU; scott@loftesness.com
> Cc: cryptography@c2.net; libtech@lists.best.com
> Subject: Re: ArcotSign (was Re: Does security depend on hardware?)
>
>
>
> I have consulted at both DigiCash and Arcot.  I am still
> under nondisclosure to Arcot, so I can't answer any
> questions about this that go beyond the publicly available
> information.  Arcot has recently made available on their public
> web site "Software Smart Cards via Cryptographc Camouflage", at
> http://www.arcot.com/camo2.html.  At the end of
> this paper is referenced Rivest's "Chaffing and Winnowing"
> paper.  These give a good overview of how such a technology
> can work, and the scope of its application.
>
>
> Nick Szabo
> szabo@best.com
> http://www.best.com/~szabo/
>




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Kurt Buff" 
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 23:13:15 +0800
To: 
Subject: RE: atheism (was: RE: Democracy... (fwd)) (fwd)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <000201bde5dd$7af6f520$1b01010a@boar.minuteman.org>
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Content-Type: text/plain



Kropotkin said, long ago, something on the order of: "If there were a God,
we should assasinate him." That is what I would call a strong atheist
statement.

I (as a militant atheist) merely say that if you can define your God, I can
probably prove he doesn't exist. Unless, of course, your definition is so
broad as to have no meaning in the first place.

| -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
| Hash: SHA1
|
| On Sun, 20 Sep 1998, Jim Choate wrote:
|
| >Forwarded message:
| >
| >> From: pjm@spe.com
| >> Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 20:13:38 +0200
| >> Subject: atheism (was: RE: Democracy... (fwd)) (fwd)
| >>
|    [snip]
|
| >No, atheism is the statement that "God could exist, but
| doesn't". Whether
| >one chooses to hang 'Bhuddism' or 'Wiccan' on is irrelevant.
| We aren't
| >discussion labels but rather characteristics. Fundamentaly
| *ALL* atheism
| >states:
| >
| >While it could happen that way, I don't believe it does.
| >
| >Which is identical in meaning to:
| >
| >While it could happen that way, I believe it doesn't.
| >
| >>      Getting back to the strong v. weak distinction, the
| weak atheist
| >> position that one "does not believe god(s) exist" does not
| constitute
| >> a belief, a set of beliefs, or a personal philosophy, let alone a
| >> religion.  The strong atheist position that one "believes god(s) do
| >> not exist" is actually making a knowledge claim and so
| does constitute
| >> a belief.
| >
| >Try to sell that spin-doctor bullshit to somebody else, and
| read a book on
| >basic logic.
| >
|     agreed, the strong v. weak atheist argument is _impossible_.
|
|     however, an interesting premise I posited to my 14 year old son
|     who had gone through his scientific awareness state and
|     consequently declared himself an "aethist". at the time he was in
|     a boarding school and we were in conversation with the chief
|     counselor who happened to be a member of an LDS bishopric:
|
|       kid:	  yes, an aethist.
|
|       father:	  so... you "deny" God's existence since their is no
|       		  "proof" of His existence. did you
| ever consider that in
|       		  order to "deny" anything, you must
| have defined that
|       		  concept?  in other words, to deny
| God, you must have
|       		  determined that I or someone else has
| defined God in
|       		  order for you to be able to "deny" God?
|       ...
|       counselor:  is there a difference between belief and faith?
|
|       ...
|       father:	  aethism is a concept which is almost impossible to
|       		  define as it is a denial that if it
| could it doesnt.
|       		  it is much easier to defend
| "agnosticism" where you
|       		  admit you do not believe, or have
| faith, because you
|       		  lack sufficient scientific proof.
| aethism is not
|      		  doubting, it is denying, even in the face of proof.
|
|       		  consider this in terms of both belief
| and faith:
|
| 		  suppose you die, and despite your lack of belief or
| 		  faith, you find yourself before the throne of God.
|
| 		  as your awareness returns, you look up and the image
| 		  of God is the image of an orangutan --now what are
| 		  you going to do?
|
|     without missing a heartbeat:
|
|       counselor:  I think you better get down on your knees and pray!
|
|     I seriously thought I would face an LDS disciplinary council for
|     that spontaneous off-the-wall comment. I didn't, but I have rocked
|     more than a few boats. and, it does point out the extent to which
|     belief is based on faith. to the literalists who point to Genesis
|     and "God created man in his own image" I always suggest that God
|     in the process could have refined homo sapiens over the years and
|     the original creation may have been significantly more endowed
|     with hair; secondly, God can appear to man in any form He chooses:
|     the burning bush, the blinding light to Saul, etc.
|
|     however, stating beliefs and disbeliefs is fine; trying
| to convince
|     another whose beliefs or disbeliefs are securely anchored
| in whatever
|     they believe as truth, is futile. I will accept, without trying to
|     change, anyone's "religious" beliefs as their beliefs; I only ask
|     they extend the same tolerance to me.
|
| 	attila out...
|
| >
|     [snip]
|
| -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
| Version: PGPfreeware 5.0i for non-commercial use
| Comment: No safety this side of the grave. Never was; never will be.
| Charset: noconv
|
| iQA/AwUBNgZuCj7vNMDa3ztrEQLR7gCg7cqx1bA29pe+fBCb7DcyPundpGsAn39U
| hhEHvCh4fgriwDbOO/QbTdn3
| =gsVI
| -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
|




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 21:13:39 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Stego-empty hard drives... (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809220241.VAA20426@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: 22 Sep 1998 02:15:42 -0000
> From: Anonymous 
> Subject: Re: Stego-empty hard drives... (fwd)

> > How do you propose to do this? Via a BIOS setting?
> 
> By default. The machine boots. It is either told to accept a passphrase or
> is told nothing. If the latter, it boots normally, only with its HD-hiding
> code. If the former, it prompts, accepts a passphrase, and then boots
> normally, only with the HD-hiding code disabled.

Understood.

> What I think you're asking is how the actual cryptography would be done. I

That aspect is trivial from the mod-the-BIOS perspective, let's assume for a
moment that the crypto is in the ROM-burner...

Specificaly I am asking:

Given a BIOS which has been modified to allow the end-user to select between
encrypted and non-encrypted operation, how is the end-user supposed to
make this selection?

So far I've seen two suggestions:

1.	The BIOS is only 'sensitive' at particular points in the POST.

2.	The BIOS has a user-accessible selection via some method to
	activate their selection.

Both are workable, I'm looking for a more specific description of the
methods.

In the case of 1., is the marker going to be particular windows which are
bounded by particular messages printed to the boot console? In the case of
2. is it going to be a particular 'magic keystroke' that enables some hidden
option screen?

It seems to me that both have obvious methods of attack if the only goal is
to demonstrate to a legal standard that such capability exists.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Fred C. Moulton" 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 00:12:15 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: atheism (was: RE: Democracy... (fwd)) (fwd)
Message-ID: <2.2.32.19980922051555.00e2e634@shell7.ba.best.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



In a recent message Jim Choate wrote:

>However, yourself, pjm, & Mr. Smith are claiming that a belief that
>something doesn't exist isn't a belief is simply a tricky play on semantics.
>A belief in a negative is still a belief irrespective of how many people
>believe it. Might doesn't make right (or logical).

Mr. Choate please spend as much time working on reading comprehension
as you do on logic.  If you read my message you will see that I have
not stated my view on the proper definition of atheism, I have not aligned
myself with pjm or George Smith nor have I aligned myself against them.  I
did provide two quotations from scholarly sources that used definitions
similar to that provided by pjm.  I also provided a quotation that there
several definitions of the term in usage and the various definitions each have
their supporters and their opponents.  My point was the definition I quoted
are well established in the scholarly literature and demonstrate that pjm was
not trying to introduce some new and unusual definition into the discussion.

Also based on the portion of your message I quote above, it appears that
you might have misunderstood the quotation I included from Mr. Smith's book.  I
am sorry that both space and copyright issues do not allow the entire book
to be sent to you, but I do suggest that you read the entire discussion
in the book if you are having difficulty with the short passage quoted
previously.

Regards

Fred






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Greg Broiles 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 00:35:25 +0800
To: Nick Szabo 
Subject: Re: ArcotSign (was Re: Does security depend on hardware?)
In-Reply-To: <199809220131.SAA11293@shell7.ba.best.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Mon, 21 Sep 1998, Nick Szabo wrote:

> I have consulted at both DigiCash and Arcot.  I am still
> under nondisclosure to Arcot, so I can't answer any
> questions about this that go beyond the publicly available 
> information.  Arcot has recently made available on their public 
> web site "Software Smart Cards via Cryptographc Camouflage", at 
> http://www.arcot.com/camo2.html.  At the end of
> this paper is referenced Rivest's "Chaffing and Winnowing"
> paper.  These give a good overview of how such a technology
> can work, and the scope of its application.

I'm certainly not a cryptographer, but I'm somewhat at a loss in trying to
understand the purpose of using public-key (or asymmetric key)
cryptography within a policy/technology system which won't allow the use
of the strengths of asymmetric key crypto. As I understand the paper you
reference above, to implement this system the public key must be kept
confidential, and signed documents must also be kept confidential, or the
system of the security as a whole is at risk. With those constraints, why
bother with the overhead (computationally/technically/legally) of
asymmetric key crypto at all? 

It seems like much of the security in the system described above comes
from the server/other party's ability to thwart brute-force attacks by
detecting and responding to multiple failed attempts at authentication;
that seems like a very good thing, but not really a strength or a weakness
of the protocol itself, but an additional practice/protocol which is
useful in many contexts.

Is it really necessary/useful to call the scheme "software smart cards"?
If it were called "An improved system for user authentication", I don't
think it would make people nearly so suspicious. From my perspective, one
of the advantages of smart card technology is that I can carry my
authentication material with me; a system which puts it on my hard disk is
less attractive. Floppies are portable, but not durable. 

I didn't understand the relationship between this scheme and Rivest's
chaffing and winnowing which you note was cited as a reference in the SSC
paper - would you (or someone else) mind explaining the connection? The
closest I can get is thinking that there's a parallel between trying to
guess which PIN in the SSC system is valid and which isn't, and the
"winnowing" part of the Rivest protocol; but that doesn't seem like an
especially meaningful or illuminating relationship. It looks like maybe a
footnote was dropped, which would've tied the Rivest paper to a particular
passage in the paper.

--
Greg Broiles
gbroiles@netbox.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Burnes 
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 22:55:08 +0800
To: Michael Motyka 
Subject: Re: Clinton's fake apologies (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <360683E5.26C6@lsil.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Mon, 21 Sep 1998, Michael Motyka wrote:

> Reeza! wrote:
> > In case you hadn't noticed, the investigation of him, vis-a-vis the rules
> > established by other demicans, his supposed compatriates, is still ongoing.
> > 
> > Methinks this is just the tip of the iceberg, a bone for the populace to
> > chew on so that when the rest of the story breaks, we (the dog) won't
> > notice the prime rib and sirloin.
> > 
> Completely illogical. Give me one good reason not to lead with your best
> punch? I suspect Starr's work is voluminous but weak on all other counts
> so he led with what would create the most publicity. I've said that I'm
> no great fan of Clinton's but this entire investigation is blatantly
> partisan and has brought the political process in this country about as
> low as it is possible to bring it. 
> 

Actually he was directed to present evidence of impeachable offenses
as soon as he found them.  Well he thinks he has found some and I
might concurr on a few.

Blatantly partisan impeachment hearings?  Say it aint so, Joe!

If you think the political process has never been lower then you
need to recheck the history of the last several years.  How about
Democrats and Republicans joining hand in hand to cheer on
the baby burning BATF in Waco?  Is your religion ATF approved?

How about murdering innocent mothers while they are holding
their babies in their arms?  A scene worthy of Hollywood 
depictions of WWII era Nazi's.  Sure, Weaver got his money,
but was anyone punished?  Will the money bring back his
family?

These cowards in Congress didn't have the balls to punish these
murderers then and they certainly don't seem to have changed
their tune.

When someone else had the cajones to try one of these bastards
on the soft charge of manslaughter the feds showed their true
colors and usurped jurisdiction and found them innocent under
color of law...

I seem to remember something about that by Tom Jefferson in the
Declaration of Independence:

"...For quatering large bodies of troops among us:
    For protecting them, by a mock trial, from punishment for
    any murders which they should commit on the inhabitants of
    these States"

That pretty much clinches it.  Yes, the political process
has been lower.  Unpunished baby burners, free roaming mother
murderers.  All performed by the Hostage Rescue Team with loving
grace.

Love is Hate.

Peace is War.

I love Big Brother.

I realize that now.

jb









From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Lazlo Toth 
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 23:12:36 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On or about 8:16 PM -0500 9/21/98, Jim Choate wrote:
>Forwarded message:
>
>> Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 00:46:03 +0000
>> From: Michael Hohensee 
>> Subject: Re: Stego-empty hard drives... (fwd)
>
>> I believe that the idea was to set it up so that BIOS defaults to
>> HD-hiding mode.
>
>How do you propose to do this? Via a BIOS setting?

Yes.

>> When you're taking your laptop through customs, you do
>> nothing while the machine boots up, the doctored BIOS does its thing,
>> and everybody's happy.  When you want to get at the stuff on the rest of
>> the HD, you reboot and type in your passphrase.
>
>How do you propose to prompt the user for the correct time to type?

Pressing an obscure key combination during bootup to trigger the password
prompt should do the trick.

-Lazlo




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Lazlo Toth 
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 23:12:37 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Suit Claims Web Linking a Violation
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Mr. Bernstein's own site (http://www.garybernstein.com/) has, as far as I
can tell, absolutely no external links.  I don't know whether this is a
recent modification in order not to undermine his case or it simply
reflects Mr. Bernstein's view of how the web should be.

It's hard to imagine him winning the case.  (God help him if he does;
that's a lot of angry netizens.)

>From ABC News:
>http://www.abcnews.com/sections/tech/DailyNews/websuit980921.html
>
>     San Francisco Examiner
>     Scripps Howard News Service
>
>     Copyright in Online Mediium
>     Suit Claims Web Linking a Violation
>     Sept. 21
>     In a lawsuit that experts say threatens the freewheeling nature of the
>World Wide Web, a photographer claims JC Penney Inc. should be held liable
>because its Web site was one of three "links" that ultimately led to an
>unauthorized display of his photo of movie star Elizabeth Taylor.
>     Celebrity photographer Gary Bernstein's complaint contends the
>department store, which advertises Taylor's "Passion" perfume on its Web
>site, violated his copyright even though its own site did not show his
>photograph.
>     The suit appears to be the first to claim a copyright violation
>resulted from multiple linking, the main way of moving about the World Wide
>Web. A hearing on whether the suit should proceed past the initial phase is
>set for today before U.S. District Judge Manuel Real in Los Angeles.
>....
>     According to the suit, JC Penney and Elizabeth Arden Co., the maker of
>Passion, in November1997 promoted the perfume with an online chat on
>America Online with Taylor, the perfume's spokeswoman.
>     Permission Not Granted
>     The chat site was linked to an Elizabeth Taylor Passion perfume page
>at a separate Web site run by JC Penney. On this page, viewers could click
>on a biography link that took them to another Web site run by Internet
>Movie Database Ltd., which featured information on the movie star.
>     Once there, they could click on another link that took them to a Web
>site run by the Swedish University Network, which included two photos of
>Taylor that had been taken by Bernstein. One-the "Pink Lady"-showed Taylor
>in a pink outfit. Another-"the lavender image"-showed her in a floral print
>dress.
>     Bernstein filed suit in April, claiming that he licensed the Pink Lady
>to Elizabeth Arden Co. to promote the perfume for a limited period that
>expired several years ago. The lavender image appeared on the cover of a
>photography magazine in 1986 and also was copyrighted, he said.
>     The suit said JC Penney, Arden and Internet Movie Database all
>violated Bernstein's copyright because-through the links-they reproduced or
>distributed the images on the Internet without his permission.
>     Weed Out Infringing Material
>     Moreover, anyone in the United States who found the photos through JC
>Penney's Web site and downloaded them also infringed on the copyright, it
>said.
>....
>Copyright 1998 Scripps Howard News Service. All rights reserved. This
>material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed."
>
>Entire article at:
>http://www.abcnews.com/sections/tech/DailyNews/websuit980921.html




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Colin Plumb 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 00:51:17 +0800
To: doug@arcot.com
Subject: Re: ArcotSign (was Re: Does security depend on hardware?)
Message-ID: <199809220552.XAA17972@nyx10.nyx.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Doug, I'd just like to thank you for replying.  Even without looking at your
description, the fact that you are willing to talk to doubters and admit
the limitations of your technique make me a lot more comfortable believing
that you have something.  You don't fit into either of the two standard
types of snake-oil salesmen: The "I can't tell you because it's secret"
sort, and the "it's totally unbreakable, cures world hunger and
disposes of nuclear waste" sort.

Not that people still don't wonder, but I thought I'd temper the technical
grilling I see heating up with some appreciation for the fact that you've
already managed a better impression than 95% of the crypto wannabes
out there.
-- 
	-Colin




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 23:38:01 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: atheism (was: RE: Democracy... (fwd)) (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809220506.AAA00515@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: "Kurt Buff" 
> Subject: RE: atheism (was: RE: Democracy... (fwd)) (fwd)
> Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 21:00:03 -0700

> I (as a militant atheist) merely say that if you can define your God, I can
> probably prove he doesn't exist. Unless, of course, your definition is so
> broad as to have no meaning in the first place.

Ok, I'll take you up on it.

Pantheism - the belief that everything is divine,
            that God is not seperate but totaly
            identified with the cosmos, and that
            God does not possess personality or
            transcendence.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 02:07:21 +0800
To: Tim May 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980922000743.008ef300@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 07:57 PM 9/21/98 -0700, Tim May wrote:
>The paralysis of the U.S. government is heartwarming. No talk about sending
>troops to Kosovo, no plans to give the IMF more money to send to Russian
>and Wall Street mafiosos (mafiosi?), no talk of sending life preservers to

That just means they'll do all those things quietly, without
trying to take credit for it in public :-)

Or alternatively, they'll try to do it as a 
"Let's get back to business!  See, the Imperial Office Of The Presidency 
is too important to damage it through impeachment just because
of a little lying about sex, which Clinton was doing before you elected him,
so now that you've all had your fun, there's Important Work To Do!"
which is a nice thing to do after summer vacation anyway,
while all the Congresscritters are away from DC running for re-election.
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 23:49:08 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Stego-empty hard drives... (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809220517.AAA00628@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 23:37:06 -0400
> From: Lazlo Toth 
> Subject: Re: Stego-empty hard drives... (fwd)

> >How do you propose to prompt the user for the correct time to type?
> 
> Pressing an obscure key combination during bootup to trigger the password
> prompt should do the trick.

And just exactly how do you propose to spread this technology commercialy
without alerting at least some members of the constabulary of its existance?

Now if we are looking for a spin-loop in a POST that isn't there in a normal
BIOS then I would say simply use sig-analysis on the machine during POST.

You've got two options on labeling the BIOS. Either pick a ID that isn't a
legitimate BIOS id or else scam a legitimate version number. In either case
the police will have listings of the legitimate BIOS versions from the
maker.

The actual sig-analysis could probably be done with a standard AM radio as a
technology demonstration. Since a spin-loop in the POST is going to sound
much more consistent than the memory checks and hardware inits that take place.

Now on a commercial basis what I'd do is get the BIOS manufacturers to sell
me a copy of each of their legitimate BIOS'es and then create a library of
signal envelopes (similar to the library of ship sounds subs carry) and it
would be a trivial feat to build a detector that does a diff on the signal.
If it doesn't match they yank you out of line and ask you some tough
questions while a guy with some hardware savy, a BIOS listing, and a logic
analyzer builds a case against you.

No, I suspect you'll pull this off a few times and then they'll catch on,
assuming the NSA or DIA doesn't give them a jump start. My guess is they
already know how to do this sort of stuff and considering the budget being
spent on neutron scanners, gas sniffers, etc. the lifetime for this
technology won't be very long.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 23:55:02 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Stego-empty hard drives... (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809220523.AAA00693@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: 22 Sep 1998 03:11:01 -0000
> From: Anonymous 
> Subject: Re: Stego-empty hard drives... (fwd)

> There's a third option, but it may be a bit more difficult (or not). I'm
> not really a hardware person, and it's probably obvious.
> 
> 3.	Use a "crypto-dongle" similar to what someone here (Mr. Geiger, I
> 	believe) has come up with. You plug it into the parallel port or
> 	somewhere else, and the encrypted data is useless once the dongle 
> 	is removed. I would think that if we plugged this into the bus we
> 	could have the BIOS remap the IDE routines to some EPROM in that
> 	dongle. The cryptography could take place there too. If the spooks
> 	are on to you, you trash the dongle.

So you're proposal is not only to put the crypto in the BIOS but a set of
hardware device drivers to drive this port during boot but won't interfere
with regular OS device drivers?

> This paradigm breaks down when we get into the operating system, though. 
> Linux, for instance, apparently disposes of the BIOS and uses its own IDE
> driver. I assume that Windows 98 does the same thing. Linux is open
> source, so modifications could be made, but Windows would be harder. 

That was an additional issue that I was going to bring up.

I suspect that in both cases it would be feasible to do, though you'd need
to use a special driver in Linux type OS'es to shadow the BIOS driver back
into the memory map.

The real issue with me about this whole scheme is the distribution
mechanism. It is just too shakey and porous not to allow LEA's to know about
it. If they can get a copy themselves then they have a perfect mechanism to
build a virus-scanner style of program to look for the appropriate
footprint.



    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Hohensee 
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 19:40:39 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: <3606F34B.90429FA1@is9.nyu.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate wrote:
> 
> Forwarded message:
> 
> > Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 16:05:30 -0400
> > From: Sunder 
> > Subject: Re: Stego-empty hard drives...
> 
> > What's this bullshit, eh?  Just overwrite the BIOS roms in your machine to
> > return all zeros for the sectors you don't want to show them.  Have some
> > special passphrase you have to type in while in the BIOS setup program to
> > deactivate this.  Most newer notebooks have flash upgradeable ROMs anyway.
> 
> What's this bullshit, eh?
> 
> I wonder how you propose to answer the question:
> 
> "Sir, exactly why are you typing that sentence into the computer at this
> time?"
> 
> Now we have not only given them probably cause but clear evidence for a
> prior intent to commit a crime. Even if your hard drive is clean they're
> going to bust your ass.
> 

I believe that the idea was to set it up so that BIOS defaults to
HD-hiding mode.  When you're taking your laptop through customs, you do
nothing while the machine boots up, the doctored BIOS does its thing,
and everybody's happy.  When you want to get at the stuff on the rest of
the HD, you reboot and type in your passphrase.

Presumably, one wouldn't do this in front of a customs official. :)




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Neels Kriek" 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 01:52:18 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer" 
Subject: Re: Stego-empty hard drives... (fwd)
Message-ID: <009d01bde5f5$bd81f1c0$9d060cd1@alien>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I have bee using Encrypted magic Folders for a while now.  it gives you the
option of encrypting all files in a specific folder. it can also do file
name scrambling and even hide all the files in a directory from the OS.

It activates through a hot key combination.  You work on the files you want
and when you exit emf the whole dir is hidden again.  probably not the most
secure system but it will certainly fool most them if you disable booting
from a stiffy/floppy.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 21:08:56 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Stego-empty hard drives... (fwd)
Message-ID: <19980922021542.29546.qmail@hades.rpini.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Mon, 21 Sep 1998, Jim Choate wrote:

> 
> Forwarded message:
> 
> > Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 00:46:03 +0000
> > From: Michael Hohensee 
> > Subject: Re: Stego-empty hard drives... (fwd)
> 
> > I believe that the idea was to set it up so that BIOS defaults to
> > HD-hiding mode.
> 
> How do you propose to do this? Via a BIOS setting?

By default. The machine boots. It is either told to accept a passphrase or
is told nothing. If the latter, it boots normally, only with its HD-hiding
code. If the former, it prompts, accepts a passphrase, and then boots
normally, only with the HD-hiding code disabled.

What I think you're asking is how the actual cryptography would be done. I
wouldn't want to stick crypto code in the BIOS, or at least not the code
which will be used all the time. 

I think a better way to do this is to have the BIOS boot up in HD-hiding
mode all the time, and require user-mode software to disable HD-hiding
mode and then deal with the cryptography.

> 
> > When you're taking your laptop through customs, you do
> > nothing while the machine boots up, the doctored BIOS does its thing,
> > and everybody's happy.  When you want to get at the stuff on the rest of
> > the HD, you reboot and type in your passphrase.
> 
> How do you propose to prompt the user for the correct time to type?

You don't, at least not at first. If you hold down maybe the left and
right shift keys, in combination with the left alt key while pressing the
"R" key, it prompts "BIOS: ". You type your passphrase in. LILO (the LInux
LOader) does this if you depress a shift key during boot. Obviously with
LILO it's to specify kernel parameters, what OS to boot into, and things
like that.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 20:05:35 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: CHALLENGE? Toto/signature attack w. unpublished public key
Message-ID: <199809220108.DAA07731@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



This value is wrong: it has 3 bytes of 0's inserted and is therefore
missing the last three bytes of the signature.

s =   0x08F4D5CBC10063725B206F787EB7370BBD0C5B4854CE79A9007D1801AEAEE6E6
        D2C68D7EDF877FECE1FA539D08BEC54BD152BA05113951E8A84CDECAD2CB8E7A
        C28BE916570BA7BB9C00C64DF57113C4AE81613BD351541523CD3A028FBF220E
        F7469BD4175302DCB5B6E886974877F28A2D301433AFFFE26081008BFF687B37


Here is the correct value, from the signed message.

08F4D5CBC10063725B206F787EB7370BBD0C5B4854CE79A97D1801AEAEE6E6D2
C68D7EDF877FECE1FA539D08BEC54BD152BA05113951E8A84CDECAD2CB8E7AC2
8BE916570BA7BB9CC64DF57113C4AE81613BD351541523CD3A028FBF220EF746
9BD4175302DCB5B6E886974877F28A2D301433AFFFE260818BFF687B37DE8167




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 22:01:48 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Stego-empty hard drives... (fwd)
Message-ID: <19980922031101.30140.qmail@hades.rpini.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Mon, 21 Sep 1998, Jim Choate wrote:

> Specificaly I am asking:
> 
> Given a BIOS which has been modified to allow the end-user to select between
> encrypted and non-encrypted operation, how is the end-user supposed to
> make this selection?
> 
> So far I've seen two suggestions:
> 
> 1.	The BIOS is only 'sensitive' at particular points in the POST.
> 
> 2.	The BIOS has a user-accessible selection via some method to
> 	activate their selection.

There's a third option, but it may be a bit more difficult (or not). I'm
not really a hardware person, and it's probably obvious.

3.	Use a "crypto-dongle" similar to what someone here (Mr. Geiger, I
	believe) has come up with. You plug it into the parallel port or
	somewhere else, and the encrypted data is useless once the dongle 
	is removed. I would think that if we plugged this into the bus we
	could have the BIOS remap the IDE routines to some EPROM in that
	dongle. The cryptography could take place there too. If the spooks
	are on to you, you trash the dongle.

This paradigm breaks down when we get into the operating system, though. 
Linux, for instance, apparently disposes of the BIOS and uses its own IDE
driver. I assume that Windows 98 does the same thing. Linux is open
source, so modifications could be made, but Windows would be harder. 

Can someone more knowledgeable comment on this hardware dongle idea as
applied to this problem?





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Reeza! 
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 13:04:02 +0800
To: mmotyka@lsil.com
Subject: Re: Clinton's fake apologies (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980920152605.0086ba30@205.83.192.13>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980922040316.0081b9f0@205.83.192.13>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 09:50 AM 9/21/98 -0700, Michael Motyka wrote:
> 
>Completely illogical. Give me one good reason not to lead with your best
>punch? I suspect Starr's work is voluminous but weak on all other counts
>so he led with what would create the most publicity. I've said that I'm
>no great fan of Clinton's but this entire investigation is blatantly
>partisan and has brought the political process in this country about as
>low as it is possible to bring it. 

The affairs of Men rarely rely upon the dictates of logic, or even common
sense.

National Security. 
International Relations.
Self Interest Re: Future Employment.
Direct and Specific instruction from immediate supervisor. He does report
to a panel of others.

It is weaker than it could be on other counts, due to many/most/all of the
prime candidates selected to testify against the sitting....person, keep
turning up dead. Go Figure.

Certainly it has ties to partisanship. Clarence Thomas. The Demicans made
the rules, now the Publicrats are playing by them. I'm reminded of a line
from the recent movie "Good Will Hunting". "How do you like them apples?"

Certainly it has given the Nation a black eye. We are now down in the
gutter, at what would seem to be Clintons level, discussing the merits of
cigars with or without extra flavoring.

>Starr's base approach to justice is the opening shot of what I hope
>turns into an all-out scorched-earth battle. Let 'em all fall down. I'm
>just afraid that when it's over the only people who will be willing to
>run for public office will be truly dangerous people who have no respect
>for liberty not of their own definition.

Starr's base approach? You mean 'basic' don't you? No, you were right. But
remember, it is all strictly by the Demican play book.

I also agree that the Beltway needs a shakedown, I share your fears. 

Reeza!


"Yes, the president should resign. He has lied to the American people,
time and time again, and betrayed their trust. He is no longer an
effective leader. Since he has admitted guilt, there is no reason to put
the American people through an impeachment. He will serve absolutely no
purpose in finishing out his term; the only possible solution is for the
president to save some dignity and resign."

- William Jefferson Clinton, speaking of Richard M. Nixon, 1974




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Rabid Wombat 
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 23:48:20 +0800
To: Anonymous 
Subject: Re: Jury duty considered harmful, or at least rare
In-Reply-To: <19980924015428.2767.qmail@hades.rpini.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





On 24 Sep 1998, Anonymous wrote:

> On Wed, 23 Sep 1998, Tim May wrote:
> 
> > 
> > At 11:11 PM -0700 9/22/98, Bill Stewart wrote:
> > 
> 

> If they do have a list, I'd kind of like to be on it. I'm a college
> student, and I _can't_ serve on a jury for more than a day or so. The same
> goes for doctors, corporate executives, and others.
> 

Yeah, right. I *never* blew off class to go to the beach. I never go to
"meetings" on the golf course, either. Glad to hear the only people with
important places to be are doctors, executives, and college students. 


> There is an inherent flaw in the jury system. You get summoned and are
> legally required to blow the entire day down at the courthouse. If you're
> a student you miss classes, and if you have a job you miss that too. You
> have to pay for transportation, parking, food, and whatever else you need. 
> In return, you get paid something like $3, which often isn't even enough
> to cover the parking and get told every five minutes that this or that
> will get you, as a juror or potential juror, thrown in jail.

It is a trade-off. If you aren't willing to put in your time, you can't 
complain when somebody else lets OJ off the hook. You can't whine if you 
are convicted by a bunch of people who were to stupid to get out of jury 
duty.

> don't want people who can determine that the evidence of one side or the
> other is suspect. They don't want people who will actually look at the
> facts rather than the emotion of the opening and closing arguments. The
> prosecution sure as hell doesn't want anybody who will look at whether a
> law should exist in the first place.

"They" refers to both sides. We have an adversarial system. Usualy one 
side or the other is willing to keep jurors who are interested in the facts. 
(OK, launch the court-appointed-public-defender rant here)

One of my employees, a white/male/degreed/job holding/computer programmer 
was kicked out by the defense, not the prosecutor.

> 
> "Hey, Doctor! Um, I have to serve on a jury. Can you take all my patients
> for the next six months while I'm locked in a hotel room?

Very few juries are sequestered. In cases where this is likely, jurors 
are often permitted to be excused if a lengthy trial is expected. This is 
a bullshit excuse for ducking jury duty. The longest anyone who works 
with or for me has been absent due to jury duty was three days.


 Oh, and I need
> to still get my full salary to pay my bills. Thanks, buddy." Um, no.
> 

The company I work for pays our salary while we are on jury duty. We have 
to turn over the $3 a day stipend.

> When the trial actually starts, the average juror, regardless of what
> council may tell them about due process, is usually biased in favor of the
> prosecution, especially if the government is claiming that the defendant
> is an evil child molestor. If it's a case involving technology, you get a
> bunch of bogus "experts" up there which say what council wants to be said,
> because real "experts" refuse to dumb down their testimony to a
> kindergarden level.

Most defendants are guilty. That doesn't mean the one in front of you is. 
Take traffic court as an example. How many defandants are there because
they are innocent, and the cop was mistaken, didn't calibrate his radar,
needed to fill his quota, etc.? A few. How many are there because they
want a couple points knocked off the penalty, even theough they were
speeding? Most of them. A guilty defendant is entitled to a fair trial. So
is an innocent one.  You don't help the process by ducking jury duty (or
are you one of the stupid people?). 

> 
> "Mr. May, will you please explain -- in layman's terms -- exactly how the
> microchip fabrication process works?"
> 

The technobable seemed to work in favor of the defense, in the OJ case. 
People have come to understand and accept fingerprinting (although it was 
not accpeted initially). Many seem to be unwilling to trust DNA evidence, 
though.

> 
> Can you imagine trying to be a defense expert in a cryptography case with
> a bunch of jurors who can barely read, are unemployed, hate "nerds," and
> beat the "geeks" up in high school, while the prosecution is constantly
> screaming that the defendant is a kiddy porn trader and you're expected to
> dumb your expert testimony down to kindergarden level? 
> 

One can always request a judge to hear the case.

It isn't a perfect system, but what do you propose as an alternative? 
Should Tim May judge us all? 

Should we revert to anarchy, with whomever is left standing is 
considered innocent, and the dead are the guilty?

-r.w.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bruce Schneier 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 04:47:56 +0800
To: Colin Plumb 
Message-ID: <199809220946.EAA09433@mixer.visi.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 11:52 PM 9/21/98 -0600, Colin Plumb wrote:
>Doug, I'd just like to thank you for replying.  Even without looking at your
>description, the fact that you are willing to talk to doubters and admit
>the limitations of your technique make me a lot more comfortable believing
>that you have something.  You don't fit into either of the two standard
>types of snake-oil salesmen: The "I can't tell you because it's secret"
>sort, and the "it's totally unbreakable, cures world hunger and
>disposes of nuclear waste" sort.
>
>Not that people still don't wonder, but I thought I'd temper the technical
>grilling I see heating up with some appreciation for the fact that you've
>already managed a better impression than 95% of the crypto wannabes
>out there.

Hey, I don't ally myself with the clueless.

Bruce
**********************************************************************
Bruce Schneier, President, Counterpane Systems     Phone: 612-823-1098
101 E Minnehaha Parkway, Minneapolis, MN  55419      Fax: 612-823-1590
           Free crypto newsletter.  See:  http://www.counterpane.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bruce Schneier 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 04:47:56 +0800
To: Mok-Kong Shen 
Message-ID: <199809220946.EAA09436@mixer.visi.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 08:59 AM 9/22/98 +0100, Mok-Kong Shen wrote:
>bram wrote:
>> 
>> On Mon, 21 Sep 1998, Bruce Schneier wrote:
>> 
>> > Here's the basic idea:  Strew a million passwords on your hard drive, and
>> > make it impossible to verify which is the correct one offline.  So,
someone
>> > who steals the password file off the client cannot run a cracking tool
>> > against the file.
>> 
>> Is this really patentable? It sounds a *lot* like the original public-key
>> algorithm (the one involving lots of little 'puzzles')
>
>A question : How does the legitimate user find his password?
>(Sorry for not having followed this thread from the beginning.)

He uses a remembered secret and some mathematical magic.

Bruce
**********************************************************************
Bruce Schneier, President, Counterpane Systems     Phone: 612-823-1098
101 E Minnehaha Parkway, Minneapolis, MN  55419      Fax: 612-823-1590
           Free crypto newsletter.  See:  http://www.counterpane.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bruce Schneier 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 06:27:13 +0800
To: Ben Laurie 
Subject: Re: ArcotSign (was Re: Does security depend on hardware?)
In-Reply-To: <199809220552.XAA17972@nyx10.nyx.net>
Message-ID: <199809221128.GAA19873@mixer.visi.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 11:55 AM 9/22/98 +0100, Ben Laurie wrote:
>Colin Plumb wrote:
>> 
>> Doug, I'd just like to thank you for replying.  Even without looking at
your
>> description, the fact that you are willing to talk to doubters and admit
>> the limitations of your technique make me a lot more comfortable believing
>> that you have something.  You don't fit into either of the two standard
>> types of snake-oil salesmen: The "I can't tell you because it's secret"
>> sort, and the "it's totally unbreakable, cures world hunger and
>> disposes of nuclear waste" sort.
>
>Clearly I failed to understand this, then:
>
>"This note doesn't tell everything about our method--we *are* developing
>a commercial product, after all..."
>
>which somehow doesn't translate to "I can't tell you because it's
>secret", it seems.

Well, _I_ think they can explain everything (and we hope to do an academic
paper on the idea), but it's not my decision.

Bruce
**********************************************************************
Bruce Schneier, President, Counterpane Systems     Phone: 612-823-1098
101 E Minnehaha Parkway, Minneapolis, MN  55419      Fax: 612-823-1590
           Free crypto newsletter.  See:  http://www.counterpane.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bruce Schneier 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 06:26:50 +0800
To: Mok-Kong Shen 
Subject: Re: ArcotSign (was Re: Does security depend on hardware?)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199809221128.GAA19882@mixer.visi.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 12:48 PM 9/22/98 +0100, Mok-Kong Shen wrote:
>Bruce Schneier wrote:
>> 
>> At 08:59 AM 9/22/98 +0100, Mok-Kong Shen wrote:
>
>> >A question : How does the legitimate user find his password?
>> >(Sorry for not having followed this thread from the beginning.)
>> 
>> He uses a remembered secret and some mathematical magic.
>
>Another naive question: Why is the remembered secret not sufficient
>(thus doing away with the magic)?

One of the significant improvements is that the scheme is immune to
offline password guessing attacks.

Bruce
**********************************************************************
Bruce Schneier, President, Counterpane Systems     Phone: 612-823-1098
101 E Minnehaha Parkway, Minneapolis, MN  55419      Fax: 612-823-1590
           Free crypto newsletter.  See:  http://www.counterpane.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: tperf@usa.net
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 10:34:40 +0800
To: 
Subject: For Women
Message-ID: <199809221523.IAA02406@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Dear Adult:

This message is intended for mature adults.
If it has reached you in error, we apologize.

Are you (or someone you care about) affected by the following 
conditions:

  · Impotency
  · Deteriorating sexual function due to:
    1. Age
    2. Medical Condition
    3. Medication
    4. Life Style

The Performance Technique can reduce or eliminate
the adverse affects these conditions have on intimate relations.

If not you, maybe a friend, parent or grandparent could benefit.

To immediately read about this revolutionary sex technique

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Performance Technique



Removal Instructions
------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Mailing List that you are being mailed from was filtered against
the Global Remove List at: http://remove-list.com

Remove-List is a free public service offering to help the general public 
get removed from bulk mailings lists and has not been sent this message. 
If you want their help please add your name to their list and you will 
not receive a bulk email from us or other ethical bulk emailer.
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 06:28:01 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: BXA Crypto Export Rule
Message-ID: <199809221123.HAA31117@camel7.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



BXA issued today an interim rule on encryption exports and
easing of limits for select institutions announced in the summer:

   http://jya.com/bxa092298.txt  (83K)

Quote:

   SUMMARY: This interim rule amends the Export Administration 
   Regulations (EAR) by clarifying controls on the export and reexport 
   of encryption items (EI) controlled for ``EI'' reasons on the 
   Commerce Control List. This rule incorporates public comments 
   on an interim rule published in the Federal Register on December 
   30, 1996, and implements new licensing policies for general 
   purpose non-recoverable non-voice encryption commodities or 
   software of any key length for distribution to banks and financial 
   institutions in specified countries.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bruce Schneier 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 07:21:19 +0800
To: Mok-Kong Shen 
Subject: Re: ArcotSign (was Re: Does security depend on hardware?)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199809221222.HAA27732@mixer.visi.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 02:20 PM 9/22/98 +0100, Mok-Kong Shen wrote:
>Bruce Schneier wrote:
>> 
>> At 12:48 PM 9/22/98 +0100, Mok-Kong Shen wrote:
>> >Bruce Schneier wrote:
>
>> >> He uses a remembered secret and some mathematical magic.
>> >
>> >Another naive question: Why is the remembered secret not sufficient
>> >(thus doing away with the magic)?
>> 
>> One of the significant improvements is that the scheme is immune to
>> offline password guessing attacks.
>
>If the 'mathematical magic' is not to be kept secret (as in principle
>shouldn't for all crypto algorithms) then presumably one could
>attack through brute forcing the 'remembered secrect', I guess.

Yes, but only through an on-line protocol.   And if the server has some
kind of "turn the user off after ten bad password guesses," then the
atack doesn't work.

>(I suppose the 'remembered secret' has less bits then the 'password'
>that is to be retrieved from the pool of millions with the
>'mathematical magic'). So the advantages of the scheme appear to
>remain unclear as a matter of principle.

The advantages are that offline password guessing is impossible.

Bruce
**********************************************************************
Bruce Schneier, President, Counterpane Systems     Phone: 612-823-1098
101 E Minnehaha Parkway, Minneapolis, MN  55419      Fax: 612-823-1590
           Free crypto newsletter.  See:  http://www.counterpane.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 07:07:22 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: atheism (was: RE: Democracy... (fwd)) (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809221236.HAA02261@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 11:06:26 +0200 (MEST)
> From: Heinz-Juergen Keller 
> Subject: RE: atheism (was: RE: Democracy... (fwd)) (fwd)

> > We're doing Boolean Algebra here not Algebra, the rules for transitory
> > functions are different.

> A natural language is *not* boolean.
> It is a Peano-Algebra.(with some more restrictions)
>  [R.Montague: Universal Grammar]

Irrelevant, we're analysing the truth or falsity of a statement, that is
Boolean Algebra.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bruce Schneier 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 07:42:36 +0800
To: Mok-Kong Shen 
Subject: Re: ArcotSign (was Re: Does security depend on hardware?)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199809221242.HAA01777@mixer.visi.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 02:28 PM 9/22/98 +0100, Mok-Kong Shen wrote:
>Bruce Schneier wrote:
>> 
>> At 02:20 PM 9/22/98 +0100, Mok-Kong Shen wrote:
>
>> >If the 'mathematical magic' is not to be kept secret (as in principle
>> >shouldn't for all crypto algorithms) then presumably one could
>> >attack through brute forcing the 'remembered secrect', I guess.
>> 
>> Yes, but only through an on-line protocol.   And if the server has some
>> kind of "turn the user off after ten bad password guesses," then the
>> atack doesn't work.
>
>I remember someone wrote of the case where the attacker got the
>file with the millions of passwords. Then if he also knows the
>'mathematical magic' he could presumably do offline work. So I
>suppose that the 'mathematical magic' has to be kept secret, which 
>would work against the generally accepted crypto principles.

No.  The online protocol can be public.  Nothing has to be kept secret
in order for this to work.  That would be stupid; we all know that.

Bruce
**********************************************************************
Bruce Schneier, President, Counterpane Systems     Phone: 612-823-1098
101 E Minnehaha Parkway, Minneapolis, MN  55419      Fax: 612-823-1590
           Free crypto newsletter.  See:  http://www.counterpane.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 07:14:46 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Peano Algebra and it's base theorem
Message-ID: <199809221242.HAA02351@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Peano Algebra's are based on the following:

If a unary predicate P holds for 0, and if P holds, together with an element
x, also for it's succesor x', then P  holds for all natural numbers.

The question under consideration is NOT an attempt to describe a language in
a Sigma structure/algebra/model. We are NOT trying to analyze the language
but rather a specific mathematical statement made IN that language.

They are not the same problem and hence Peano Algebra's do NOT apply.

Nice straw man, I had to drag a math book out to refresh what a Peano
Algebra was (don't think I've ever had to deal with one).


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 07:16:23 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Stego-empty hard drives... (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809221245.HAA02410@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: "Neels Kriek" 
> Subject: Re: Stego-empty hard drives... (fwd)
> Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 01:52:03 -0500

> I have bee using Encrypted magic Folders for a while now.  it gives you the
> option of encrypting all files in a specific folder. it can also do file
> name scrambling and even hide all the files in a directory from the OS.
> 
> It activates through a hot key combination.  You work on the files you want
> and when you exit emf the whole dir is hidden again.  probably not the most
> secure system but it will certainly fool most them if you disable booting
> from a stiffy/floppy.

The problem is this approach is detectible with a suitable 'virus scanner'
technology. Even if the encrypted folders and such don't appear in the file
system you have various other pieces of the processing agent that must sit
around on the drive and hence are open to signature attacks.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 07:18:13 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: CHALLENGE response (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809221246.HAA02464@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 08:01:07 +0200
> From: Anonymous 
> Subject: CHALLENGE response

> "Contrary to one famous philosopher,
> you're saying the medium is not the
> message," Judge Thomas Nelson said,
> alluding to the media theorist Marshall
> McLuhan. 
> http://www.nytimes.com/library/cyber/week/120997encrypt-bernstein.html
> 
>   Bullshit!
>   The bits and bytes of email encryption are a clear message
> that I wish to exercise my right to speak freely, without those
> who wish to do me harm invading my privacy.

If you're going to take that tack then you need to invoke freedom of the
press and not freedom of speech.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bruce Schneier 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 07:48:11 +0800
To: Mok-Kong Shen 
Subject: Re: ArcotSign (was Re: Does security depend on hardware?)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199809221250.HAA03398@mixer.visi.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 02:47 PM 9/22/98 +0100, Mok-Kong Shen wrote:
>Bruce Schneier wrote:
>> 
>> At 02:28 PM 9/22/98 +0100, Mok-Kong Shen wrote:
>> >Bruce Schneier wrote:
>> >>
>> >> At 02:20 PM 9/22/98 +0100, Mok-Kong Shen wrote:
>> >
>> >> >If the 'mathematical magic' is not to be kept secret (as in principle
>> >> >shouldn't for all crypto algorithms) then presumably one could
>> >> >attack through brute forcing the 'remembered secrect', I guess.
>> >>
>> >> Yes, but only through an on-line protocol.   And if the server has some
>> >> kind of "turn the user off after ten bad password guesses," then the
>> >> atack doesn't work.
>> >
>> >I remember someone wrote of the case where the attacker got the
>> >file with the millions of passwords. Then if he also knows the
>> >'mathematical magic' he could presumably do offline work. So I
>> >suppose that the 'mathematical magic' has to be kept secret, which
>> >would work against the generally accepted crypto principles.
>> 
>> No.  The online protocol can be public.  Nothing has to be kept secret
>> in order for this to work.  That would be stupid; we all know that.
>
>I suppose you misunderstood me. I mean the 'mathematical magic'
>cannot be made public. (Or is 'online protocol' = 'mathematical magic'?)
>If the 'magic' is public then the attacker with the pool of passwords
>could brute force offline.

No.  You misunderstood me.  There is NOTHING secret except the key.
The online protocol, mathematical magic, source code, algorithm details,
and everything else can be made public.  There are no secrets in the
system except for the keys.

Yes, it's not obvious how you do this.  That's why Arcot is turning this
into a product--it's a good idea.

Bruce
**********************************************************************
Bruce Schneier, President, Counterpane Systems     Phone: 612-823-1098
101 E Minnehaha Parkway, Minneapolis, MN  55419      Fax: 612-823-1590
           Free crypto newsletter.  See:  http://www.counterpane.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bruce Schneier 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 07:50:27 +0800
To: Ben Laurie 
Subject: Re: ArcotSign (was Re: Does security depend on hardware?)
In-Reply-To: <199809220552.XAA17972@nyx10.nyx.net>
Message-ID: <199809221251.HAA03621@mixer.visi.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 12:57 PM 9/22/98 +0100, Ben Laurie wrote:
I hope you manage to persaude them then, because, as we all know, if it
>is kept secret, then even B. Schneier saying it is great will not rescue
>them from the snake-oil branding.

I'm working on it.  I think I will be successful.  They know that they have to
make their sytem public if people are going to use it.  At this point, keeping
things under wraps give them a competitive edge.  There will be a point where
they have to make all the details public.

Bruce
**********************************************************************
Bruce Schneier, President, Counterpane Systems     Phone: 612-823-1098
101 E Minnehaha Parkway, Minneapolis, MN  55419      Fax: 612-823-1590
           Free crypto newsletter.  See:  http://www.counterpane.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 00:58:44 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: CHALLENGE response
Message-ID: <199809220601.IAA30078@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
Version: 2.6.2

mQEMAzJEMpEAAAED/0jftmc14q6/r/pGe61N+QymMfQlUdrMNWSl9n9wnst1BGft
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2jvDbzG8f7I5oM6NAC5thtjmMoe9FasHMW+lQ3B3IFNSFgIULM5WpAclQcU1A/0S
K/k9FEU/SX93bC3SqTwwdaW9bvksN6Tqs8YSmVcRCoCAQQrTB9i0I+1y86gA9DnC
UR0EuvalZ54+g/+4G0TOqLVoeSXYhyktqwrIFmwDyK3RPEU6OkwxzlBALNvEKzKB
SsdTm7J6O+jg56yEI3YyyBJM6N+zKvmm7DGB8I2+IbQKVG90bywgdG9vP4kAlQMF
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ZOOEKCk5d/Q/9d0D0imSZRrV6EQRsiuhA9d0LQy0DuLQC3/NguKFK0Z3fY9gT8/q
xV9JJmmoYTjSEDke0RfexfvNDuOa9aISVxndwYGkkYlUcsZBmOeo1OKPdhWCLbnI
CsB7
=cutG
-----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----




-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----


Interested readers may want to verify that the key above does give a
valid signature when applied to the message below.

(It will be necessary to remove any existing key with keyid 0x2541C535
before this key can be added to the keyring.)


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Version: 2.6.2

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qDlmcpy4HggT9yHK0vjOTm6UUR/xkvt0WCheAQEe9ZeshFyPa5BAJ7Sqy2dcI1Xv
X3DzB5pn2yk=
=SmV7
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----




-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----



"Contrary to one famous philosopher,
you're saying the medium is not the
message," Judge Thomas Nelson said,
alluding to the media theorist Marshall
McLuhan. 
http://www.nytimes.com/library/cyber/week/120997encrypt-bernstein.html

  Bullshit!
  The bits and bytes of email encryption are a clear message
that I wish to exercise my right to speak freely, without those
who wish to do me harm invading my privacy.
  The death of strong encryption on the InterNet will be the
global death of free speech on the InterNet. Accordingly, I 
feel it is necessary to make a stand and declare that I stand
ready and willing to fight to the death against anyone who
takes it upon themselves to try to imprison me behind an
ElectroMagnetic Curtain.

  This includes the Ninth Distric Court judges, if they come to
the conclusion that the government that they represent needs to
electronically imprison their citizens 'for their own safety.'


The problem: Criminals with a simple
encryption program can scramble their data
beyond even the government's ability to read it. 
http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/content/zdnn/1208/261695.html

  Fuck the lame LEA pricks who whine about not being able to
stop someone bringing in a planeload of drugs without being
able to invade the privacy of every person on the face of
the earth.
  Am I supposed to believe that I have knowledge of when and
where major drug shipments are taking place, simply by virtue
of hanging out as a musician, yet the LEA's are incapable of
finding out the same information by being competent in their
profession? Barf City...
 [I will shortly provide information for any LEA which wishes
  to prosecute me for my coming 'physical' death threat, on
  how to hunt me down like the filthy dog that I am.]

"Why are you saying that the fact that [encryption]
is functional takes it out of the First Amendment
context?" Myron Bright, one of the judges, asked
the Justice Department attorney, who was still in
mid-sentence. He answered that the regulations
were not aimed at suppressing speech, but only at
the physical capacity of encryption to thwart
government intelligence gathering. 

  The Spanish language has the same "physical capacity." So 
does (:>), (;[), and {;-|). Likewise, BTW, FWIW, FYI, and
my own personal favorite, YMMV (You Make Me Vomit? --or--
Your Mileage May Vary?). <-- Ambidextrous encryption.
  An-cay e-way pect-exay ig-pay atin-lay usts-bay of 
ildren-chay?
  Whispering also has the "physical capacity" to "thwart 
government intelligence gathering."

  When does the bullshit stop? When do we stop making the
use of the Spanish language over the InterNet illegal?
When do we stop making whispering, pig-latin, anagrams
and acronyms illegal?
  When do we stop saying that our government is such a
piece of crap that it is a danger to let its citizens
communicate freely, in private, and share their private
thoughts with one another?


At one point Fletcher called the government's case 
"puzzling."
http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,17114,00.html

  Only because her mom taught her that it was unladylike to
say "Bullshit!"


In arguments Monday, a Justice Department
lawyer, Scott McIntosh, said the government's
intent was to preserve the ability of intelligence
agencies to eavesdrop on foreign governments
and citizens. 
http://www.nytimes.com/library/cyber/week/120997encrypt-bernstein.html

  Let's see if I have this right...
  The U.S. government needs to destroy the right to free speech 
and right to privacy of its own citizens in order to infringe
upon the human rights of the governments and citizens of other
countries? Countries which already have strong encryption?
Countries like Red China, which is currently engaged in 
encryption research with an American company who got permission
to export much more diverse encryption material (after making
a huge campaign donation to the Whitehouse) than Professor
Bernstein will ever likely share with others?
  Apologies to Judge Fletcher, but that's not "puzzling." That's
the same-old-same-old Bullshit!


OFFICIAL 'PHYSICAL' DEATH THREAT!!!
  The pen is mightier than the sword. Thus, I prefer to wage my
'war to the death' against those who would stomp on my basic
human rights *"in the interests of National Security"* with my
electronic pen, on the InterNet, using encryption when I have
reason to fear persecution by Facist, Nazi motherfuckers.
[* ~~ TruthMonger Vernacular Translation ~~ "so that the 
 government can maintain its authority over the citizens
 by use of force and violation of human rights, rather than
 going to all of the trouble of acting in a manner that will
 garner the citizens' respect."]

  I will continue to express my thoughts through the words
I send electronically over the InterNet, both publically
and privately. I will fight to the bandwidth death against
anyone who wants to deny me my right to express my opinions
and access the opinions of those who also wish to express
their own opinions and share their true thoughts with their
fellow humans.
  If the ElectronicMagnetic Curtain slams down around me, 
then I will have no choice but to continue my current fight
in MeatSpace.
  And I am not alone...

  I will share the same 'DEATH THREAT!!!' with Judges Fletcher,
Nelson and Bright that I have shared with the President and
a host of Congressional and Senatorial representatives:
  "You can fuck some of the people all of the time, and all of
the people some of the time, but you are going to end up in a
body bag or a pine box before you manage to fuck all of the
people all of the time."

  Am *I* going to whack you out? Maybe...
  I would prefer just dumping some tea in Boston Harbor, if that
will get my message across in MeatSpace, but if it won't, then
I guess I will have to take stronger action.
  There are undoubtedly a plethora of LEA's ready and willing to
prosecute and imprison me for agreeing with Patrick Henry, who
said, "Give me liberty, or give me death." The irony, of course,
is that I do not pose a great danger to anyone but myself as
long as I continue to have my human rights and my liberty
unthreatened.

  The chances of me actually getting off of my fat butt and
going out into the real world to whack out the enemies of
freedom are probably pretty small (unless I run out of 
cigarettes and beer, and wouldn't have to make an extra 
trip).
  I fully understand that this does not lessen the potential
of any LEA who gets a wild hair up their butt to throw a
mountain of taxpayer resources into prosecuting me and 
imprisoning me for their own professional/political gain.
  However, if you are performing actions so outrageously against
basic human rights and freedoms as to get me off of my lazy ass,
then I am the least of your problems, because there undoubtedly
are millions of people more functional than myself (who get out
of the house and go further than the liquor store) who are less
willing than myself to put up with increasingly heavy chains
placed around their hands and feet 'in the interests of national
security.'

  Feel free to have the Federales break down my door and
imprison me for pointing out the obvious. After all, I fit
the profile of a domestic terrorist--I quote the Constitution 
and the Bill of Rights, and I speak out against increasingly
big government.
  But remember...it's the quiet ones you've got to watch...
If you force everyone to 'be quiet', then you've got a world
of trouble on your hands.

Sincerly,
John Gilmore 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
p.s.
NOTICE TO LEA AGENTS IN NEED OF A CAREER BOOST!
  Yes, I'm just a troublemaking asshole, trying to get John
 Gilmore  in trouble.
  However, if you want to go to the trouble of tracking me 
down, I will give you some hints, since it seems likely that
anyone who has trouble finding a ton of cocaine at an 
airport might not be competent in CyberSpace, either.
  You might want to check with the Webmasters at the sites
quoted above to see who has accessed their web sites this
morning. The anonymous remailer I will be using is an open
secret to CypherPunks around the world as a really bad 
attempt at disguising my true MeatSpace identity. This alone
ought to be enough for some aggressive young LEA and/or
federal prosecutor to earn themself some brownie-points,
since I am a sorry enough son-of-a-bitch that they would not
have much trouble convicting me in front of a jury of 'their'
peers, assuming that they can make certain that I am not 
tried by a jury of my own peers.

Bonus Points:
  I can also be tied into Jim Bell's Worldwide Conspiracy to 
assassinate government authorities, through my implementation
of an Assassination Bot.
 (I am willing to 'rat out' Jim for two bottles of Scotch. If
 he is willing to rat _me_ out for less, then I guess it's
 just my hard luck, eh? <--that's another hint!)

p.p.s.
  You can also charge me with use of 'conventional' encryption
in the commission of a crime.
  Must be your lucky fucking day, eh?

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i/9oezfegWc=
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mark Hahn 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 08:03:31 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Stego-empty hard drives... (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199809220116.UAA20070@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980922085457.0096f7a0@mail.aosi.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 11:37 PM 9/21/98 -0400, Lazlo Toth wrote:
>>> When you're taking your laptop through customs, you do
>>> nothing while the machine boots up, the doctored BIOS does its thing,
>>> and everybody's happy.  When you want to get at the stuff on the rest of
>>> the HD, you reboot and type in your passphrase.

As I recall, this thread is about customs officials booting your laptop
from *their* floppy and scanning your hard drive.  I suggest two
practical solutions to avoid this incursion:

1) Leave the floppy drive at home ;-) Many PCs have swapable floppy/
CD-ROM bays. I've learned to live without my floppy (others may not have
that option.)

2) If you can't leave your floppy at home, carry your sensitive data on 
a PCMCIA Type-II Hard Drive. Kingston sells one sporting 500MB 
of capacity. Pop it out and put it as far away from the laptop as you
can. Inside your other luggage somewhere.

-MpH
--------
Mark P. Hahn                    Work: 212-278-5861
mhahn@tcbtech.com               Home: 609-275-1834
TCB Technologies, Inc (mhahn@tcbtech.com)

Consultant to:
The SoGen Funds	1221 Avenue of the Americas, NY NY




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mok-Kong Shen 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 01:59:00 +0800
To: cryptography@c2.net
Subject: Re: ArcotSign (was Re: Does security depend on hardware?)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <36074AEB.63B74FA4@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



bram wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 21 Sep 1998, Bruce Schneier wrote:
> 
> > Here's the basic idea:  Strew a million passwords on your hard drive, and
> > make it impossible to verify which is the correct one offline.  So, someone
> > who steals the password file off the client cannot run a cracking tool
> > against the file.
> 
> Is this really patentable? It sounds a *lot* like the original public-key
> algorithm (the one involving lots of little 'puzzles')

A question : How does the legitimate user find his password?
(Sorry for not having followed this thread from the beginning.)

M. K. Shen




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mok-Kong Shen 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 02:40:59 +0800
To: Greg Broiles 
Subject: Re: ArcotSign (was Re: Does security depend on hardware?)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <36075008.AA35899E@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Greg Broiles wrote:

> I didn't understand the relationship between this scheme and Rivest's
> chaffing and winnowing which you note was cited as a reference in the SSC
> paper - would you (or someone else) mind explaining the connection? The
> closest I can get is thinking that there's a parallel between trying to
> guess which PIN in the SSC system is valid and which isn't, and the
> "winnowing" part of the Rivest protocol; but that doesn't seem like an
> especially meaningful or illuminating relationship. It looks like maybe a
> footnote was dropped, which would've tied the Rivest paper to a particular
> passage in the paper.

I like to mention that sometime ago there was a lot of discussions
in comp.security.pgp.discuss. My personal opinions on shaffing and 
winnowing are summarized in

    http://www.stud.uni-muenchen.de/~mok-kong.shen/#paper3

M. K. Shen




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 09:45:49 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: atheism (was: RE: Democracy... (fwd)) (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199809212348.SAA19564@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 6:48 PM -0500 9/21/98, Jim Choate wrote:
>Forwarded message:
>
>> Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 15:18:28 +0000 (GMT)
>> From: attila 
>> Subject: Re: atheism (was: RE: Democracy... (fwd)) (fwd)
>
>>       father:	  so... you "deny" God's existence since their is no
>>       		  "proof" of His existence. did you ever consider
>>that in
>>       		  order to "deny" anything, you must have defined that
>>       		  concept?  in other words, to deny God, you must have
>>       		  determined that I or someone else has defined God in
>>       		  order for you to be able to "deny" God?
>
>So, what has the issue of defining something got to do with its existance?
>Is this bozo really claiming that God can only exist unless somebody thinks
>him up? Sounds like religous hubris to me...
>God was shinning on this asshole that he never had to argue face to face
>with me at that age...

	Basically he is saying you can't deny the existence of something if
you don't know what it is.

	God is a label on a definition. Change the definition, and you
could conceivably change wheter "God" falls into the "Exists", "Doesn't
Exist", or
"I donno" state.

>>       counselor:  is there a difference between belief and faith?
>The spelling.

>>       father:	  aethism is a concept which is almost impossible to
>>       		  define as it is a denial that if it could it doesnt.
>>       		  it is much easier to defend "agnosticism" where you
>>       		  admit you do not believe, or have faith, because you
>>       		  lack sufficient scientific proof. aethism is not
>>      		  doubting, it is denying, even in the face of proof.
>Agnosticism has *nothing* to do with scientific proof. It existed eons
>before anyone even thought of the scientific method. Skepticism is a part of
>human nature, not philosophy, beliefs, or science.
>Atheism is saying that while God could exist he doesn't. In other words it
>is the belief that God doesn't exist and can't be proven contrary. There is
>a fundamental belief that all proofs are flawed.

	There are some atheists who would argue that in this universe, God
(capital G, the Creator, Omni*, all good, Long white beard & sandals, god
of ...) could NOT exist.

>Agnosticism is the inability to believe one way or the other. It could be

	Or simply indecesion.

>> 		  suppose you die, and despite your lack of belief or
>> 		  faith, you find yourself before the throne of God.
>My own personal suspicion is he's going to ask you whether you lived your
>beliefs even in the face of overwhelming opposition. As long as you say
>"Yes" he's going to be a happy camper.
>To borrow a Christian icon, he's going to want to know if you worshiped
>false idols.

	He? Talk about hubris...

	Personally, I'm not an atheist any more, I'm a apathist. I don't
care whether God exists, or even what his characteristics are. I care how
whether each and every individual that affects my life acts responsibly and
fairly. Other than that, I could give a shit.

--
Five seconds later, I'm getting the upside of 15Kv across the nipples.
(These ambulance guys sure know how to party).
The Ideal we strive for: http://www.iinet.net.au/~bofh/bofh/bofh11.html
No, I don't speak for playboy, They wouldn't like that. They really wouldn't.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 09:45:22 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Stego-empty hard drives... (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199809220116.UAA20070@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 8:16 PM -0500 9/21/98, Jim Choate wrote:
>Forwarded message:
>> Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 00:46:03 +0000
>> From: Michael Hohensee 
>> I believe that the idea was to set it up so that BIOS defaults to
>> HD-hiding mode.
>
>How do you propose to do this? Via a BIOS setting?
>
>> When you're taking your laptop through customs, you do
>> nothing while the machine boots up, the doctored BIOS does its thing,
>> and everybody's happy.  When you want to get at the stuff on the rest of
>> the HD, you reboot and type in your passphrase.
>
>How do you propose to prompt the user for the correct time to type?

	Why prompt, you installed it, just have the startup stop at a
certain point, just simply pause. You hit a couple keys (4-8) and go on.
Given this case you don't really need the security of a long passphrase
since if they are looking to get in, you've lost already.

--
petro@playboy.com----for work related issues. I don't speak for Playboy.
petro@bounty.org-----for everthing else.      They wouldn't like that.
                                              They REALLY
Economic speech IS political speech.          wouldn't like that.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 09:45:26 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 9:41 PM -0500 9/21/98, Jim Choate wrote:
>Specificaly I am asking:
>
>Given a BIOS which has been modified to allow the end-user to select between
>encrypted and non-encrypted operation, how is the end-user supposed to
>make this selection?
>
>So far I've seen two suggestions:
>
>1.	The BIOS is only 'sensitive' at particular points in the POST.
>
>2.	The BIOS has a user-accessible selection via some method to
>	activate their selection.
>
>Both are workable, I'm looking for a more specific description of the
>methods.
>
>In the case of 1., is the marker going to be particular windows which are
>bounded by particular messages printed to the boot console? In the case of
>2. is it going to be a particular 'magic keystroke' that enables some hidden
>option screen?
>
>It seems to me that both have obvious methods of attack if the only goal is
>to demonstrate to a legal standard that such capability exists.

	If you do (1), and simply have _no_ prompt, just a small space in
time AFTER the POST (say, immediately after) to type in your passkey, and
things are
set up that if you type the wrong keys, it goes straight into hidden space
mode, then there would be no suspicion, other than a slightly long boot
sequence (and if the wait time were only 2 or 3 seconds, it might not even
be noticable.)

--
petro@playboy.com----for work related issues. I don't speak for Playboy.
petro@bounty.org-----for everthing else.      They wouldn't like that.
                                              They REALLY
Economic speech IS political speech.          wouldn't like that.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Duncan Frissell 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 09:11:44 +0800
To: John Young 
Message-ID: <4.0.2.19980922095259.03e0ad50@panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 03:58 PM 9/21/98 -0400, John Young wrote:

>The place has a distinguished history. See its honor roll on
>Alta Vista. Search "Medical Facility for Federal Prisoners."

General Edwin Walker grabbed in the early 1960s for his opposition to
integration.  Classic "medical" imprisonment for political beliefs.

DCF




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 09:30:01 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Peano Algebra and it's base theorem (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809221457.JAA03448@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 10:02:23 -0500
> From: Mark Hahn 
> Subject: Re: Peano Algebra and it's base theorem

> At 07:42 AM 9/22/98 -0500, Jim Choate wrote:
> >Peano Algebra's are based on the following:
> >
> >If a unary predicate P holds for 0, and if P holds, together with an element
> >x, also for it's succesor x', then P  holds for all natural numbers.
> 
> Didn't you over simplify this theorem somewhat.

It's taken word for word from VNR. Send 'em a letter.

The point is that we were discussing binary not integer mathematics.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 10:03:42 +0800
To: Bruce Schneier 
Subject: Re: ArcotSign (was Re: Does security depend on hardware?)
In-Reply-To: <360797EF.A979141A@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 7:39 AM -0500 9/22/98, Bruce Schneier wrote:
>At 02:28 PM 9/22/98 +0100, Mok-Kong Shen wrote:
>>Bruce Schneier wrote:
>>>
>>> At 02:20 PM 9/22/98 +0100, Mok-Kong Shen wrote:
>>
>>> >If the 'mathematical magic' is not to be kept secret (as in principle
>>> >shouldn't for all crypto algorithms) then presumably one could
>>> >attack through brute forcing the 'remembered secrect', I guess.
>>>
>>> Yes, but only through an on-line protocol.   And if the server has some
>>> kind of "turn the user off after ten bad password guesses," then the
>>> atack doesn't work.
>>
>>I remember someone wrote of the case where the attacker got the
>>file with the millions of passwords. Then if he also knows the
>>'mathematical magic' he could presumably do offline work. So I
>>suppose that the 'mathematical magic' has to be kept secret, which
>>would work against the generally accepted crypto principles.
>
>No.  The online protocol can be public.  Nothing has to be kept secret
>in order for this to work.  That would be stupid; we all know that.

	Also, that things are kept secret/unpublished NOW doesn't mean that
they won't be released when the product ships.

	Not knowing anything about this company, they may have seen a novel
way to put existing tools/methods together, and are doing Q/A, interface,
and marketing work, and don't want to publicize their methods _yet_ because
they COULD be beat to market by a product that has less
documentation/Testing/etc.

	If they seem willing to release the algorythm, and essential parts
of the source code, they might have at least a bit of a clue, if Mr.
Schneier is willing to bet reputation capital on it, I'd be hesitant to cry
"Snake oil". At least the first time.

--
petro@playboy.com----for work related issues. I don't speak for Playboy.
petro@bounty.org-----for everthing else.      They wouldn't like that.
                                              They REALLY
Economic speech IS political speech.          wouldn't like that.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 09:31:52 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Stego-empty hard drives... (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809221500.KAA03503@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 15:33:18 +0100
> From: Mok-Kong Shen 
> Subject: Re: Stego-empty hard drives... (fwd)

> 
> I am ignorant about hardware. Question: Wouldn't it be possible to
> somehow put information on a music CD?
> 

Absolutely, though the fact that it's r/w'able is going to set some flags
off. Now if you can find somebody who makes R/W CD's that aren't blue,
green, yellow, etc. and instead the clear that is normaly expected you might
pull it off.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 09:33:06 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Clinton's fake apologies (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809221501.KAA03547@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 10:28:01 -0400
> From: Duncan Frissell 
> Subject: Re: Clinton's fake apologies (fwd)

> Ladies and Gentlemen of the Jury, we just conducted a
> favorable/non-favorable public opinion survey about the ADA over there and
> found out that 3% had a favorable opinion of him 3% unfavorable and 94%
> were DK or No Opinion.  I therefore plead that he has insufficient personal
> popularity to conduct this prosecution.

I like that one, talk about 'jury of their peers'...


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mark Hahn 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 09:04:51 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980922100223.0095a100@mail.aosi.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 07:42 AM 9/22/98 -0500, Jim Choate wrote:
>Peano Algebra's are based on the following:
>
>If a unary predicate P holds for 0, and if P holds, together with an element
>x, also for it's succesor x', then P  holds for all natural numbers.

Didn't you over simplify this theorem somewhat. The proof that P holds
for the successor x' must be derived from the truth of predicate P for x.
The successor, x', must be shown to satisfy P because x satisfies P.
Restated: x' satisfies P if and only if x satisfies P. 

In this way you can start with P and the natural number 1, and 
show P holds for any natural number by applying your proof recursively. 
(i.e. P is true for 1 and my proof show it is true for 2, then my proof shows
it is true for 3, then it shows its true for 4, the it shows its true for
....)

If the proof of P for x' is not related to the proof of P for x then
you can prove lots of irrational statements. I.e. say the Predicate P is
"is prime". Then 2 holds for P (2 "is prime"). 2's successor is 3. P also
holds for 3 (3 "is prime"). So all P holds for all natural numbers. Ergo,
all natural number are prime. I don't think so. 3's primeness must be
derived from 2's primeness. 

-MpH
--------
Mark P. Hahn                    Work: 212-278-5861
mhahn@tcbtech.com               Home: 609-275-1834
TCB Technologies, Inc (mhahn@tcbtech.com)

Consultant to:
The SoGen Funds	1221 Avenue of the Americas, NY NY




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 09:37:10 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Stego-empty hard drives... (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809221504.KAA03594@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 00:01:31 +1000
> From: Reeza! 
> Subject: Re: Stego-empty hard drives... (fwd)

> At 07:45 AM 9/22/98 -0500, Jim Choate wrote:
> >Forwarded message:
> >> From: "Neels Kriek" 
> >> Subject: Re: Stego-empty hard drives... (fwd)
> >> Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 01:52:03 -0500
> >> I have bee using Encrypted magic Folders for a while now.  it gives you the
> >> option of encrypting all files in a specific folder. it can also do file
> >> name scrambling and even hide all the files in a directory from the OS.
> >> 
> >> It activates through a hot key combination.  You work on the files you want
> >> and when you exit emf the whole dir is hidden again.  probably not the most
> >> secure system but it will certainly fool most them if you disable booting
> >> from a stiffy/floppy.
> >
> >The problem is this approach is detectible with a suitable 'virus scanner'
> >technology. Even if the encrypted folders and such don't appear in the file
> >system you have various other pieces of the processing agent that must sit
> >around on the drive and hence are open to signature attacks.
> >
> 
> The first assertion is not entirely accurate-

Which first assertion, his or mine? Youre quoting leaves me confused (not
that it is necessarily your fault...;).

> I played with Magic Folders
> for a while- it relies on a command, usu. in the autoexec.bat or win.ini
> file (dos/windows environment) to load, with a bootable floppy disk these
> commands would would be bypassed and the so-called "hidden" folder is in
> plain sight. 

One thing is clear, you can't mundge the base OS or else the catch is going
to be trivial.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 09:36:59 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Stego-empty hard drives... (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809221505.KAA03644@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 08:54:57 -0500
> From: Mark Hahn 
> Subject: Re: Stego-empty hard drives... (fwd)

> As I recall, this thread is about customs officials booting your laptop
> from *their* floppy and scanning your hard drive.  I suggest two
> practical solutions to avoid this incursion:

That's where we started, we're miles away and deep in the woods now....


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Duncan Frissell 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 09:22:54 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: <199809221423.KAA24348@mail1.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 06:28 PM 9/21/98 -0500, Jim Choate wrote:

>"But ladies and gentlemen of the jury, as our President has claimed and
>clearly demonstrated by his remaining in office, for a person to be
>convicted on a felony it has to be an important felony. The prosecution
has not
>proven that this felony has sufficient weight for prosecution. You have no
>choice but to aquit my client."
>
Or:

Ladies and Gentlemen of the Jury, we just conducted a
favorable/non-favorable public opinion survey about the ADA over there and
found out that 3% had a favorable opinion of him 3% unfavorable and 94%
were DK or No Opinion.  I therefore plead that he has insufficient personal
popularity to conduct this prosecution.

DCF




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 10:11:39 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: CHALLENGE response (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809221539.KAA04070@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



> Subject: CHALLENGE response (fwd)

> The whole point of the CHALLENGE response went straight over his head,
> didn't it? 

It didn't go over my head at all. What amazes me is that it took you this
long to figure out that one could munge signatures.

> We have here the first known case where a key was constructed ex post
> facto to validate a signed message, in response to Adam Back's challenge.

Um, I don't believe that is true. It may be the first time members of this
list have managed it.

> No longer can you assume that just because you posted a signed message
> on a certain date, and you hold the public key which signed that message,
> that you can later prove authorship.  It challenges some of the implicit
> assumptions which have been made in using public key cryptography.

No, it challenges basic assumptions regarding the importance of identity.
In no way does it effect the basic math of crypto, public or otherwise.

And people wonder why I don't sign my messages...

> And all Jim Choate can do is take issue with a snippet of Toto's ravings
> which were included purely to illustrate the signature validity.  He is
> completely unaware of what is really happening.

I've taken no issue with Toto or his ravings.

Have a nice day.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 10:18:45 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Stego-empty hard drives... (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809221546.KAA04142@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 09:38:18 -0500
> From: Petro 
> Subject: Re: Stego-empty hard drives... (fwd)

> 	If you do (1), and simply have _no_ prompt, just a small space in
> time AFTER the POST (say, immediately after) to type in your passkey, and
> things are
> set up that if you type the wrong keys, it goes straight into hidden space
> mode, then there would be no suspicion, other than a slightly long boot
> sequence (and if the wait time were only 2 or 3 seconds, it might not even
> be noticable.)

If we are discussing only the customs inspector doing a visual inspection
this will certainly work. It won't hold up to TEMPEST analysis where they 
fingerprint a known un-mod'ed unit and then compare that to yours. The
POST shouldn't change from laptop to laptop, irrespective of the filesystem
or OS that is actualy installed.

The point is that this is a weak approach with a variety of attacks open.
When one considers the amount of work required to collect BIOS'ed , reverse
engineer them (unless you got lots of mullah), develop the crypto,
develop the camouflage code, distribute the code, burn the ROM's, distribute
the ROM's, cost of suitable TEMPEST monitors, etc. the benefit seems
questionable at best.

Even if they can't crack it in may places (eg France) such actions would
be prosecutable in and of themselves.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 10:20:10 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Stego-empty hard drives... (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809221548.KAA04187@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 09:32:49 -0500
> From: Petro 
> Subject: Re: Stego-empty hard drives... (fwd)

> 	Why prompt, you installed it, just have the startup stop at a
> certain point, just simply pause. You hit a couple keys (4-8) and go on.
> Given this case you don't really need the security of a long passphrase
> since if they are looking to get in, you've lost already.

You'll probably not want it to stop, simpy wait a few seconds. Also, if
the passphrase is incorrect you'll not want to issue any error messages.

Stopping the boot may be a good indication of a problem.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 10:23:07 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: atheism (was: RE: Democracy... (fwd)) (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809221551.KAA04243@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 09:27:57 -0500
> From: Petro 
> Subject: Re: atheism (was: RE: Democracy... (fwd)) (fwd)

> 	Basically he is saying you can't deny the existence of something if
> you don't know what it is.

That's the rub, in transcendental religions with this as a proviso it
becomes impossible to even talk about God, he transcends the natural world
and escapes any hope of comprehension other than a simple label.

In effect transcendental religions have defined themselves into a circle.

They define God as something undefinable and then claim that anyone who
counters their beliefs is at fault because they can't define God.



    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Steve Mynott 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 05:02:26 +0800
To: cypherpunks 
Subject: problems with pgp 5i for solaris
Message-ID: <19980922110059.A20392@tightrope.demon.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I am having problems with PGP 5i for solaris.

I am aware of http://www.pgpi.com/bugs/bugs50i.shtml

I have tried setting HAVE64 to 0 and the 
*** src/lib/pgp/include/pgpUsuals.h~    Sat Aug  9 22:44:58 1997
--- src/lib/pgp/include/pgpUsuals.h     Tue Aug 12 16:57:16 1997

patch but neither solve my problem.

I get "Received signal 10." after entering my pass phrase when
trying to decrypt a message encoded to my PK.

Has anyone got it to work?

-- 
pgp 1024/D9C69DF9 1997/10/14 steve mynott 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Heinz-Juergen Keller 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 04:21:32 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: RE: atheism (was: RE: Democracy... (fwd)) (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199809212320.SAA19200@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Mon, 21 Sep 1998, Jim Choate wrote:

> Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 18:20:57 -0500 (CDT)
> From: Jim Choate 
> To: Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer 
> Subject: RE: atheism (was: RE: Democracy... (fwd)) (fwd)
> 
(stuff deleted)
> 
> We're doing Boolean Algebra here not Algebra, the rules for transitory
> functions are different.
A natural language is *not* boolean.
It is a Peano-Algebra.(with some more restrictions)
 [R.Montague: Universal Grammar]
 
(much stuff deleted)

  Heinz-Juergen Keller  hjk@mail.dip.de   hjkeller@gmx.[net,de]
  2047bit PGP Public Key : http://www.dip.de/~hjk/
  MD5 Fingerprint: 4d33126fbf8c1bcd8e96ba90d99f0bdc





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 11:13:26 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 10:48 AM -0500 9/22/98, Jim Choate wrote:
>Forwarded message:
>
>> Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 09:32:49 -0500
>> From: Petro 
>> Subject: Re: Stego-empty hard drives... (fwd)
>
>> 	Why prompt, you installed it, just have the startup stop at a
>> certain point, just simply pause. You hit a couple keys (4-8) and go on.
>> Given this case you don't really need the security of a long passphrase
>> since if they are looking to get in, you've lost already.
>
>You'll probably not want it to stop, simpy wait a few seconds. Also, if
>the passphrase is incorrect you'll not want to issue any error messages.
>
>Stopping the boot may be a good indication of a problem.

	I don't know how hard this would be, but how about running a
seperate memory check, and while those numbers are flashing on the screen,
do the wait for imput?

--
petro@playboy.com----for work related issues. I don't speak for Playboy.
petro@bounty.org-----for everthing else.      They wouldn't like that.
                                              They REALLY
Economic speech IS political speech.          wouldn't like that.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 11:05:00 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Stego-empty hard drives... (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809221631.LAA04509@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 11:32:03 -0500
> From: Mark Hahn 
> Subject: Re: Stego-empty hard drives... (fwd)

> If you need fast random access, then neither version of CD will be
> suitable. Hence the PCMCIA Hard Disk. However, you may have 
> difficulty coming up with a cover story if, indeed, you do not want
> to tell  a customs officer, "Oh, yeah, that's a portable disk drive".

It occured to me that it might be feasible to ship such devices seperately
via Fed-Ex or whatever. The question becomes, what do such countries as
Great Britian plan for materials crossing their borders in this manner? Are
they going to search each package and examine its contents? What does this
mean for Dell and their ilk? The ramifications of this aspect are of some
interest...


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mark Hahn 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 10:40:50 +0800
To: Mok-Kong Shen 
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980922113203.0097b4b0@mail.aosi.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 03:33 PM 9/22/98 +0100, Mok-Kong Shen wrote:
>Mark Hahn wrote:
>> 
>> 2) If you can't leave your floppy at home, carry your sensitive data on
>> a PCMCIA Type-II Hard Drive. Kingston sells one sporting 500MB
>> of capacity. Pop it out and put it as far away from the laptop as you
>> can. Inside your other luggage somewhere.
>
>I am ignorant about hardware. Question: Wouldn't it be possible to
>somehow put information on a music CD?

Sure. Simply trade offs of what's important to you and the situation you
might be in. 

If disguise is a primary factor, then a write once music CD would be
excellent.  If you need re-writable capability, use a CD-RW (re-writable
CD). However a CD-RW appears gold underneath, not sliver-ish, so
you have less of a disguise.

If you need fast random access, then neither version of CD will be
suitable. Hence the PCMCIA Hard Disk. However, you may have 
difficulty coming up with a cover story if, indeed, you do not want
to tell  a customs officer, "Oh, yeah, that's a portable disk drive".

As another trade off, most Laptops don't have CD-ROM writing drives,
so you would need an outboard drive. There are probably slick, portable
versions available, but that's more junk to lug through the airport
(and to explain, if necessary.)

Also, I was trying to suggest something practical to address the problem.
I.e. can be done in a week and under $500. Some of us could re-write the
BIOS and flash in the update in that time frame. Others of us will find
a credit card and mail order an easier route to take. (uh... minus the
lack of anonymity of buying mail order....)

-MpH
--------
Mark P. Hahn                    Work: 212-278-5861
mhahn@tcbtech.com               Home: 609-275-1834
TCB Technologies, Inc (mhahn@tcbtech.com)

Consultant to:
The SoGen Funds	1221 Avenue of the Americas, NY NY




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bruce Schneier 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 12:01:33 +0800
To: Mok-Kong Shen 
Subject: Re: ArcotSign (was Re: Does security depend on hardware?)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <4.0.2.19980922114142.00956610@mail.visi.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 03:04 PM 9/22/98 +0100, Mok-Kong Shen wrote:
>Bruce Schneier wrote:
>> 
>> >I suppose you misunderstood me. I mean the 'mathematical magic'
>> >cannot be made public. (Or is 'online protocol' = 'mathematical magic'?)
>> >If the 'magic' is public then the attacker with the pool of passwords
>> >could brute force offline.
>> 
>> No.  You misunderstood me.  There is NOTHING secret except the key.
>> The online protocol, mathematical magic, source code, algorithm details,
>> and everything else can be made public.  There are no secrets in the
>> system except for the keys.
>
>In that case please allow me to go back to a point raised by me
>previously. The user uses his 'remembered secret' (of fewer bits) 
>through a public algorithm (including protocol) to retrieve from a 
>pool the password (of more bits). If the attacker doesn't have the 
>pool then everything looks fine. But if he manages to get the pool
>(a case someone mentioned in this thread) then he can obviously
>brute force offline, I believe, since he possesses now everything
>the legitimate user has, excepting the 'remembered secret'. Or is
>there anything wrong with my logic?

Yes.  There is something wrong with you logic.

Bruce
**********************************************************************
Bruce Schneier, President, Counterpane Systems     Phone: 612-823-1098
101 E Minnehaha Parkway, Minneapolis, MN  55419      Fax: 612-823-1590
           Free crypto newsletter.  See:  http://www.counterpane.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bruce Schneier 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 12:02:21 +0800
To: Ben Laurie 
Subject: Re: ArcotSign (was Re: Does security depend on hardware?)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <4.0.2.19980922114219.00928f00@mail.visi.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 03:24 PM 9/22/98 +0100, Ben Laurie wrote:
>Bruce Schneier wrote:
>> >(I suppose the 'remembered secret' has less bits then the 'password'
>> >that is to be retrieved from the pool of millions with the
>> >'mathematical magic'). So the advantages of the scheme appear to
>> >remain unclear as a matter of principle.
>> 
>> The advantages are that offline password guessing is impossible.
>
>The 'I' word always makes me nervous - do you really mean that, or do
>you just mean "very difficult"?

Intractable, actually.

Bruce
**********************************************************************
Bruce Schneier, President, Counterpane Systems     Phone: 612-823-1098
101 E Minnehaha Parkway, Minneapolis, MN  55419      Fax: 612-823-1590
           Free crypto newsletter.  See:  http://www.counterpane.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ben Laurie 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 06:00:13 +0800
To: Colin Plumb 
Subject: Re: ArcotSign (was Re: Does security depend on hardware?)
In-Reply-To: <199809220552.XAA17972@nyx10.nyx.net>
Message-ID: <36078211.1C7A64AF@algroup.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Colin Plumb wrote:
> 
> Doug, I'd just like to thank you for replying.  Even without looking at your
> description, the fact that you are willing to talk to doubters and admit
> the limitations of your technique make me a lot more comfortable believing
> that you have something.  You don't fit into either of the two standard
> types of snake-oil salesmen: The "I can't tell you because it's secret"
> sort, and the "it's totally unbreakable, cures world hunger and
> disposes of nuclear waste" sort.

Clearly I failed to understand this, then:

"This note doesn't tell everything about our method--we *are* developing
a commercial product, after all..."

which somehow doesn't translate to "I can't tell you because it's
secret", it seems.

Cheers,

Ben.

-- 
Ben Laurie            |Phone: +44 (181) 735 0686| Apache Group member
Freelance Consultant  |Fax:   +44 (181) 735 0689|http://www.apache.org/
and Technical Director|Email: ben@algroup.co.uk |
A.L. Digital Ltd,     |Apache-SSL author     http://www.apache-ssl.org/
London, England.      |"Apache: TDG" http://www.ora.com/catalog/apache/

WE'RE RECRUITING! http://www.aldigital.co.uk/




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Gene Tsudik 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 14:03:27 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Fifth ACM Conference on Computer and Communications Security
Message-ID: <199809221855.LAA12108@pollux.usc.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain






This is the Call for Participation for the  5th ACM Conference on 
Computer and Communications Security that will take place in San 
Francisco Nov 2-5.

Below please find the REGISTRATION form.
The official conference homepage is at: 

            http://www.bell-labs.com/user/reiter/ccs5/

It includes, among other things, the conference program, information
about invited talks, speakers and tutorials. 


------------------------- cut here ----------------------------------



Fifth ACM Conference on Computer and Communications Security

                   REGISTRATION FORM

          Name:_____________________________________________

   Affiliation:_____________________________________________

Postal Address:_____________________________________________

               _____________________________________________

               _____________________________________________

         Phone:_____________________________________________

           Fax:_____________________________________________

         Email:_____________________________________________

Note: Notification of receipt of registration form will be sent via email.
      Address information will be distributed to all attendees.

Please mark the appropriate registration categories.  Payment must be
included and must be either by check in U.S. dollars, drawn on a U.S.
bank and made payable to "ACM Conference on Computer and
Communications Security", or by credit card.  Dates are strictly
enforced by postmark.

Attendees who register for tutorials can attend any of the four
half-day tutorials.  However, to assist in planning, please indicate
which tutorials you are likely to attend.

 Morning sessions (choose one):
  ___  Cryptography: Theory and Applications (Dan Boneh)
  ___  Programming Languages and Security (Martin Abadi, George Necula)

 Afternoon sessions (choose one):
  ___  Authentication protocol verification and analysis (Jon Millen)
  ___  Emerging models in electronic commerce (Doug Tygar)

The following tutorial registration fees include admission to all
tutorials, and must be paid in full if any tutorial is attended.

 Advance tutorial registration (on or before October 1, 1998)
  ___  ................................................................$300.00
  ___  Full-time Student...............................................$100.00
 Late tutorial registration (after October 1, 1998)
  ___  ................................................................$395.00
  ___  Full-time Student...............................................$100.00

Conference registration includes admission to the regular conference
programs (but not the tutorials), conference proceedings, continental
breakfast, lunch, and reception/dinner.

 Advance conference registration (on or before October 1, 1998)
  ___  Member, ACM or ACM SIGSAC (Member #__________, required)........$315.00
  ___  Non-Member......................................................$390.00
  ___  Full-time Student...............................................$100.00
 Late conference registration (after October 1, 1998)
  ___  Member, ACM or ACM SIGSAC (Member #__________, required)........$375.00
  ___  Non-Member......................................................$465.00
  ___  Full-time Student...............................................$100.00


Do you have any special requirements?_________________________________________

Please indicate your method of payment by checking the appropriate box:

  [ ] Check in U.S. funds drawn on a U.S. bank (PLEASE ENCLOSE WITH THIS FORM)

  Credit card authorization:
  (Charges will appear on your statement as made by ACM.
   Note: your credit card number will be processed by the ACM.)

         Visa        MasterCard      American Express     Diners Club
         [ ]            [ ]                [ ]                [ ]

  Credit Card Number:_________________________________________________________

  Card Holder Name:______________________________Expiration Date:_____________

Mail registration to:                     Or Email this form (CREDIT CARD
        Li Gong                           REGISTRATIONS ONLY) to:
        Sun Microsystems                  li.gong@sun.com with the subject
        MS UCUP02-102                     ACM CCS registration
        901 San Antonio Road
        Palo Alto, CA 94303-4900, USA

>>>>SORRY, NO REFUNDS.<<<<

Hotel Reservations - The Fairmont Hotel, San Francisco
======================================================
The legendary Fairmont Hotel in San Francisco is situated atop the
exclusive Nob Hill area, with a panoramic view of the City and San
Francisco Bay.  Nearby, cable cars stop to carry guests to Union
Square and the Financial District as well as nearby Chinatown,
Ghirardelli Square and Fisherman's Wharf.

Hotel reservations must be made under the group name "Association of
Computing Machinery/ACM CCS".  The special group rate is

Main Building:  $155 single and $175 double occupancy
Tower/Bay View: $185 single and $205 double occupancy

There is an additional 14% tax.  These rates are guaranteed for the
period of the conference only.  The cut-off date for reservations is
Thursday, October 8, 1998.  Reservations made after this date will be
accepted on a space available basis, but due to the busy season,
reservations should be made as early as possible.  Reservations must
be guaranteed by a credit card or it must be accompanied by an advance
deposit for the first night.  You may cancel your individual
reservations up to 24 hours prior to arrival, after which your deposit
becomes non-refundable.  Please be advised the check-in time is after
3:00 p.m.; check-out is 1:00 p.m.

For reservations and information, contact:

The Fairmont Hotel
950 Mason Street
San Francisco, CA 94108
Tel: +1 415-772-5000
     +1 800-527-4727

Transportation from the San Francisco International Airport to the
hotel can be via taxi, which takes about 30 minutes and costs about
$30, or via shuttle at a cost of around $12.  Shuttle information can
be found at the airport.
=============================================================================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew Mundy 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 11:21:33 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Remove
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



remove




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Chiu Ngan" 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 14:38:27 +0800
To: vanessa.ho@mailexcite.com
Subject: Fwd: RE: HOAX: I don't care if this is real or not! But forwarding is	not hard for me if I help
Message-ID: <19980922193105.260.qmail@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain






>From ptrei@securitydynamics.com Wed Sep 16 06:49:03 1998
>Received: from mail.securitydynamics.com by 
tholian.securitydynamics.com
>          via smtpd (for mail.hotmail.com [209.1.112.253]) with SMTP; 
16 Sep 1998 13:48:16 UT
>Received: by securitydynamics.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA08933; 
Wed, 16 Sep 1998 09:54:39 -0400 (EDT)
>Received: by exna01.securitydynamics.com with Internet Mail Service 
(5.0.1460.8)
>	id ; Wed, 16 Sep 1998 09:52:43 -0400
>Message-ID: 

>From: "Trei, Peter" 
>To: "'Chiu Ngan'" , dueli@hotmail.com,
>        centrebet@centrebet.com.au, contact@unsw.edu.au, 
Declan@well.com,
>        Dodwellleung@hotmail.com, dlin@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca,
>        dorngan@hkstar.com.hk, cypherpunks@toad.com, 
cj2802@singnet.com.sg,
>        parsley@unforgettable.com, S.Lundy@unsw.edu.au, 
accounts@magna.com.au,
>        n.harding@unsw.edu.au, philiph@magna.com.au, ulf@fitug.de,
>        leevv@hotmail.com, vanessa.ho@mailexcite.com
>Subject: RE: HOAX: I don't care if this is real or not! But forwarding 
is
>	not hard for me if I help
>Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 09:50:23 -0400
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8)
>Content-Type: text/plain
>
>You should care. Not checking on such obvious
>hoaxes makes you look like an idiot. It took
>me less than 30 seconds to establish that this
>is yet another urban legend. Check:
>
>http://www.inform.umd.edu/mdk-12/help/xhoax.html#liver
>
>
>Chiu Ngan [simpsonngan@hotmail.com] forwarded:
>> >>>>Hello, my name is David "Darren" Bucklew. I live in 
>> >>>>Pittsburgh PA where I attend Bethel Park High School
>> >>>>and participate in  many sports.  I have severe
>> >>>>ostriopliosis of the liver. (My liver is extremely 
>> >>>>inflamed).
>> >>>>Modern Science has yet to find a cure.  Valley
>> >>>>Childrens hospital 
>> >>>>> has agreed to donate  7 cents to the National
>> >>>>Diesese Society for every name 
>> >>>> on  this letter.Please send it around as much as you
>> >>>>can.
>> >>>>Thank you,
>> >>>>Darren
>> >>>>
>> >>>>PS: For those of you who dont take 5 minutes to do 
>> >>>>this, what goes around comes around. You can help
>> >>>>sick people, and it costs you nothing,yet you are too
>> >>>>lazy to do it?  You will get what you deserve. 
>> 
>


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 11:35:51 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Dead Men Tell No Tales
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Delivered-To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 05:18:16 -0400 (EDT)
To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
From: softwar@us.net (CharlesSmith)
Subject: IP: Dead Men Tell No Tales
Sender: owner-ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
Precedence: list
Reply-To: softwar@us.net (CharlesSmith)

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/smith/980922.comcs.html

It is said, "dead men tell no tales."  If that were true, then
America would have never known of the real story behind the
Clinton administration.  Two dead men are calling from their
graves for the last few years of their lives to be told.  The
ghosts of Vince Foster and Ron Brown hover over Bill Clinton.

Vince Foster and Ron Brown were both involved in the Clinton -
China encryption scandal.  One known event took place in May
1993 when Vince Foster, Webster Hubbell and Bernard Nussbaum
paid the National Security Administration (NSA) a visit.  These
three fine gentlemen, with close connections to Hillary Clinton
and the Arkansas Rose Office Law Firm, were tasked by President
Clinton to help develop policy for U.S. communications
technology.

According to Foster's secretary, the White House lawyer also had
binders from the NSA in his office.  Binders that were never
turned over by the White House.  White House officials denied
that Foster had any connection with the NSA.  However, documents
forced from the NSA by Washington Weekly and an interview with
former NSA Director Adm. McConnell both confirmed Foster's
presence at Ft. Meade in 1993.

Foster's attendance at Ft. Meade also confirmed that Attorney
General Janet Reno tasked Hubbell to encryption policy.  Hubbell
had access to Top Secret material on U.S. encryption.  This fact
was confirmed by a series of 1997 interviews with Democratic and
Republican staff members in the House.  Congressman Dan Burton
currently holds documents where Hubbell held long meetings with
Foster and now CIA Director George Tenet inside the White House
in 1993.  Burton cannot release those documents because
Democratic members have threatened to walk.

Hubbell was convicted in 1994 for fraud at the same time he was
paid hundreds of thousands of dollars by Indonesian billionaire
Moctar Riady.  Riady and his Lippo group had a great deal of
interest in advanced U.S. technology.  Riady's man inside the
Clinton administration was John Huang at the Brown Commerce
Department.  The Commerce Department asserted in writing in 1997
to this author that John Huang had no encryption documentation.

Yet, the CIA briefed Huang 37 times on satellite encryption
technology while at Commerce.  Huang's co-worker, former DNC
fundraiser Ira Sockowitz, walked out of the Commerce Department
in 1996 with over 2,000 pages of top secret information on
satellite encryption, space launch and earth imaging technology.

Sockowitz was supposed to fly with Brown on the fatal trade trip
but he took an advance flight ahead of the Secretary instead.
Sockowitz identified Ron Brown's body at the crash scene.
Sockowitz left Commerce with the secrets only days after Brown's
death.  He was never prosecuted nor investigated.

One Sockowitz document was so classified that the NSA sent a
representative to testify before Federal Judge Royce Lamberth in
order to keep it secret.  NSA testimony showed that Sockowitz
took a highly classified report based on informants from inside
other countries and inside the U.S.

The list of nations and foreign intelligence services affected
by the leaked report reads like a Rand McNally road map of
secret services around the world.  According to the testimony,
release of the report would affect the "careers" of many foreign
officials.  The last U.S. official who had similar career
problems was convicted spy Johnathan Pollard - now spending life
in prison for passing U.S. encryption secrets to Israel.

Other documents hidden among the Sockowitz files include a
classified series of memos from the Commerce Undersecretary for
Export Administration (BXA) William Reinsch.  The memos detail a
July 1996 Clinton waiver for Loral satellite exports to China
and Russia.  In July 1998, House National Security Committee
Chairman Spence told BXA head Reinsch to produce that memo and
other documents taken by Sockowitz.  So far, the White House and
Reinsch have been unable to comply.

Loral attorneys also claimed to Chairman Rohrabacher of the
House Space Sub-Committee that the million dollars Loral CEO
Schwartz gave to the DNC bought no special favors, and that
Loral passed no military technology to China.

The Loral claims are ridiculous.  Loral's own letters of
complaint to Ron Brown clearly show both claims to be false.
The claim that no military technology was exported is disputed
by Loral's own 1994 briefing memo given to Ron Brown that states
that satellites such as Globalstar were "commercial applications
of DoD technology."

Another example is when Loral DEFENSE President Jerald Lindfelt
wrote Brown a letter in 1996 where he expressed his desire to
sell advanced Synthetic Aperture Radar (SAR) technology to
China.  Lindfelt wrote "We've worked hard trying to resolve
these problems with the Department of State, the Department of
Commerce and the Defense Technology Security Administration
(DTSA), but someone in these organizations always manages to
block our participation...  Could you help us by identifying
someone in the Commerce Department high enough in the
organization to help us resolve these issues and open this
marketplace to our participation."

Thus, Loral "Defense" President Lindfelt asked Brown to
over-ride the State Department, the Defense Department and the
Commerce Department to ship a radar system that experts in all
three agencies had objected to.  Only Clinton could do that, and
he took big dollars from Bernard Schwartz.

The claim that Mr. Schwartz received no special favors is almost
laughable.  In 1996 Loral requested that President Clinton hold
up his signature on the Globalstar export waiver so Loral could
include an encrypted satellite telemetry control station for
China.

In 1994 President Clinton arranged for Schwartz to meet Shen
Rong-Jun, Vice Minister of the Chinese Commission of Science,
Technology and Industry for National Defense (COSTIND).  Of
course, Shen Rong-Jun usually goes by his better known title of
Lt. General Shen Rong-Jun of the People's Liberation Army.
COSTIND, according to the GAO, is "an agency of the Chinese
military (which) oversees development of China's weapon systems
and is responsible for identifying and acquiring
telecommunications technology applicable for military use."

Another example from the files of Ron Brown shows that the wife
of Chinese General Ding Henggao, Madam Nie Li, obtained
permission under a "commercial license" through the Commerce
Department to export an advanced - encrypted - secure fiber
optic communications system to China.  According to the same
documentation, General Ding Henggao is also the Director of
COSTIND.

The same 1996 document notes that Mr. Xie Zhichao, COSTIND
Electronics Design Bureau Director, and communications expert
Deng Changru were part of the executive management for the same
Chinese front company.  Mr. Xie and Mr. Deng also have other
formal titles.  They are both Lt. Colonels in the Chinese Red
Army.  These astonishing facts on Clinton - Chinese Army deals
come directly from the U.S. Commerce Department.

Yet, the Commerce Department claimed on September 1, 1998 that
it cannot "confirm nor deny the existence of any records" in
regard to a Freedom of Information (FOIA) request for
information on "COSTIND".  Furthermore, the Commerce Department
claims "If records were to exist they would be exempt from
disclosure...  unless the release of such information is
determined by the Secretary to be in the national interest."

Obviously, I can confirm that documents on COSTIND exist inside
the Commerce Department.

There is still more evidence the Commerce Department is covering
up crimes committed under Secretary Brown.  For example, in
response to two different FOIA requests, the Commerce Department
returned one trade report twice in 1998.  The first version of
the trade report was heavily blacked out for "commercial" and
"privacy" reasons.  The second, a duplicate of the first,
revealed that Indonesian dictator Suharto had cut his son-in-law
in on a private powerplant deal built and financed by the U.S.
government.  Of course, the U.S. contractor that needed Brown
advocacy to win the deal was also a big donor to the DNC.

The accidentally released 1994 APEC Advocacy trade report spells
out exactly the kind of data being withheld from the U.S.
public.  The report shows the Brown Commerce Department pushed
the power plant despite known corruption and kickbacks.  "ADB is
skiddish about involvement of Indonesia's first family (a
minority shareholder is married to Pres. Suharto's daughter)...
Ambassador Barry has been working with Executive Director Linda
Yang, at the ADB who is 'doing all she can.'"

Another page from the 1994 trade report shows that Commerce
officials were suspicious of Indonesian corruption with French
space companies.  The document notes the intense competition to
win satellite launch contracts for Indonesia between the U.S.
and France included "allegations that the French have paid
'incentive money' to the Indonesians, but this cannot be
confirmed."

Written evidence that American, Indonesian and French taxpayers
were being swindled.  Three governments, spanning three
continents, all involved in one crime.  A trail of evidence
leading to the Commerce Department and to Bill Clinton, all
blacked out in one hidden report from the late Ron Brown.

The ghosts of dead men haunt this government, kept alive by
fresh lies and hidden under blacked out reports.  Evidence on
the transfer of nuclear missile technology to communist China
and kickbacks to the Clinton/Gore campaign.  Despite the
evidence of crimes - the cover-up continues at the Commerce
Department, at Ft. Meade, and inside the White House.

============================================================

index of source documents -

http://www.softwar.net/costind.html

================================================================
1 if by land, 2 if by sea.  Paul Revere - encryption 1775
Charles R. Smith
SOFTWAR         http://www.softwar.net      softwar@softwar.net
Pcyphered SIGNATURE:
2BCB1A1B6350FF06670487EF4EC39FA8539A8B6B2720FA81AFA3F989DE9212C9
0F35E078318ED643A042651B7D3AB98E1FFC6193C4BD66B6ECD09A7284497DD0
A830BB83F7E72248
================================================================
SOFTWAR EMAIL NEWSLETTER                            09/22/1998
***  to unsubscribe reply with "unsubscribe" as subject    ***
================================================================






**********************************************
To subscribe or unsubscribe, email:
     majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com
with the message:
     (un)subscribe ignition-point email@address
**********************************************
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--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mike Stay 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 13:39:48 +0800
To: mok-kong.shen@stud.uni-muenchen.de
Subject: Re: ArcotSign (was Re: Does security depend on hardware?)
Message-ID: <3607EF93.701D@accessdata.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>>In that case please allow me to go back to a point raised by me
>>previously. The user uses his 'remembered secret' (of fewer bits) 
>>through a public algorithm (including protocol) to retrieve from a 
>>pool the password (of more bits). If the attacker doesn't have the 
>>pool then everything looks fine. But if he manages to get the pool
>>(a case someone mentioned in this thread) then he can obviously
>>brute force offline, I believe, since he possesses now everything
>>the legitimate user has, excepting the 'remembered secret'. Or is
>>there anything wrong with my logic?
>
>Yes.  There is something wrong with you logic.
>
>Bruce
>**********************************************************************
>Bruce Schneier, President, Counterpane Systems     Phone: 612-823-1098
>101 E Minnehaha Parkway, Minneapolis, MN  55419      Fax: 612-823-1590
>           Free crypto newsletter.  See:  http://www.counterpane.com

According to the website, there's no pool of passwords.  There's a
truncated hash that will catch most mistakes, but is useless as a test
criterion in a dictionary attack.  If you get the user's "public" key,
then you can do a dictionary attack.  The user's "public" key isn't
public, however; not even the user knows it.  If I'm understanding it
right, it's stored encrypted and the key is only given to a set of
predefined servers.  Prior relationship must exist; they admit that.
-- 
Mike Stay
Cryptographer / Programmer
AccessData Corp.
mailto:staym@accessdata.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 12:18:36 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Stego-empty hard drives... (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809221743.MAA05104@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 11:07:34 -0500
> From: Petro 
> Subject: Re: Stego-empty hard drives... (fwd)

> 	I don't know how hard this would be, but how about running a
> seperate memory check, and while those numbers are flashing on the screen,
> do the wait for imput?

So hide the keyscan in the memory counter code. Would work externaly, would
probably not show up on TEMPEST. Since both the keyscan and the memory scan
are repetitive TEMPEST might have a problem telling them apart. Provided you
could get the keyscan in the same footprint as the mem check the BIOS
would not show up as anomolous in size. As long as they're not running
around doing checksums you'd be ok (I suspect).


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mok-Kong Shen 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 06:06:11 +0800
To: Bruce Schneier 
Subject: Re: ArcotSign (was Re: Does security depend on hardware?)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <36078061.D34D26D@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Bruce Schneier wrote:
> 
> At 08:59 AM 9/22/98 +0100, Mok-Kong Shen wrote:

> >A question : How does the legitimate user find his password?
> >(Sorry for not having followed this thread from the beginning.)
> 
> He uses a remembered secret and some mathematical magic.

Another naive question: Why is the remembered secret not sufficient
(thus doing away with the magic)?

M. K. Shen




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Sunder 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 11:58:29 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: Stego-empty hard drives... (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199809221500.KAA03503@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <3607D670.2FB37E4E@brainlink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate wrote:

> > I am ignorant about hardware. Question: Wouldn't it be possible to
> > somehow put information on a music CD?
> >
> 
> Absolutely, though the fact that it's r/w'able is going to set some flags
> off. Now if you can find somebody who makes R/W CD's that aren't blue,
> green, yellow, etc. and instead the clear that is normaly expected you might
> pull it off.

You could always compress the fuck out of the data and save it as 2d bar codes
(PDF417) in a printed book, or to photographic slides, or the inside of a silk
tie, or as a tatoo on your ass, or make your own under the skin transponder
chips and implant yourself with hundreds of them, etc...

(Sorry this thread is just getting too silly and so am I... :)

-- 

=====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos==============
.+.^.+.|       Sunder       |Prying open my 3rd eye.  So good to see |./|\.
..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were      |/\|/\
<--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run  |\/|\/
../|\..| "A toast to Odin,  |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/.
.+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were....            |.....
======================= http://www.sundernet.com ==========================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ben Laurie 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 06:58:17 +0800
To: Bruce Schneier 
Subject: Re: ArcotSign (was Re: Does security depend on hardware?)
In-Reply-To: <199809220552.XAA17972@nyx10.nyx.net>
Message-ID: <360790AF.AAE039E2@algroup.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Bruce Schneier wrote:
> 
> At 11:55 AM 9/22/98 +0100, Ben Laurie wrote:
> >Colin Plumb wrote:
> >>
> >> Doug, I'd just like to thank you for replying.  Even without looking at
> your
> >> description, the fact that you are willing to talk to doubters and admit
> >> the limitations of your technique make me a lot more comfortable believing
> >> that you have something.  You don't fit into either of the two standard
> >> types of snake-oil salesmen: The "I can't tell you because it's secret"
> >> sort, and the "it's totally unbreakable, cures world hunger and
> >> disposes of nuclear waste" sort.
> >
> >Clearly I failed to understand this, then:
> >
> >"This note doesn't tell everything about our method--we *are* developing
> >a commercial product, after all..."
> >
> >which somehow doesn't translate to "I can't tell you because it's
> >secret", it seems.
> 
> Well, _I_ think they can explain everything (and we hope to do an academic
> paper on the idea), but it's not my decision.

I hope you manage to persaude them then, because, as we all know, if it
is kept secret, then even B. Schneier saying it is great will not rescue
them from the snake-oil branding.

Cheers,

Ben.

-- 
Ben Laurie            |Phone: +44 (181) 735 0686| Apache Group member
Freelance Consultant  |Fax:   +44 (181) 735 0689|http://www.apache.org/
and Technical Director|Email: ben@algroup.co.uk |
A.L. Digital Ltd,     |Apache-SSL author     http://www.apache-ssl.org/
London, England.      |"Apache: TDG" http://www.ora.com/catalog/apache/

WE'RE RECRUITING! http://www.aldigital.co.uk/




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 13:14:38 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 12:43 PM -0500 9/22/98, Jim Choate wrote:
>Forwarded message:
>> 	I don't know how hard this would be, but how about running a
>> seperate memory check, and while those numbers are flashing on the screen,
>> do the wait for imput?
>
>So hide the keyscan in the memory counter code. Would work externaly, would
>probably not show up on TEMPEST. Since both the keyscan and the memory scan
>are repetitive TEMPEST might have a problem telling them apart. Provided you
>could get the keyscan in the same footprint as the mem check the BIOS
>would not show up as anomolous in size. As long as they're not running
>around doing checksums you'd be ok (I suspect).

	At a certain threat level or level of "interest" in your affairs,
whether you can hide the fact that you are using crypto or not is going to
become irrelevant.

	In otherwords, if your threat level realistically includes CIA/NSA
you're well and fucked. If "they" think you are a serious threat to them
(as opposed to being a serious threat to the government/country) they will
get you, they will lie, they will cheat, they will give some poor bastard
plastic surgery to look like you, and take pot shots at the president on
National TV, and then "escape custody".

	If you are operating at this level, you are trying to hide _your_
activities from prying eyes, true, but you are also trying to prevent
_others_ from being compromised.

	If your opponent is using tempest, you are operating at that level.
Tempest is expensive, and I'd imagine would have to be calibrated not only
for each processor ([3-6]86, with all the variations (sx/dx, celeron, xenon
etc,) as well as the NEC. AMD. and Cyrix clones thereof, ARM & StrongARM
processors, PPC 601/3/4/G-3 processors, Motorola 68k processors, sparc
processors etc) but (if you are looking at what the POST & BIOS actually
does) for each BIOS AND OS. This is NOT an easy task, nor can it be done by
a Bozo operating a X-Ray machine at an airport.

	If you have attacted enough attention to warrant the expense that
this investigation is bringing on, you better either be totally clean AND
on everyones good side, or they ARE going to find something. They're the
government, locking people up is what they do best.

--
petro@playboy.com----for work related issues. I don't speak for Playboy.
petro@bounty.org-----for everthing else.      They wouldn't like that.
                                              They REALLY
Economic speech IS political speech.          wouldn't like that.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Sunder 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 12:37:40 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: Stego-empty hard drives... (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199809212323.SAA19241@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <3607DFB6.CAC75C9C@brainlink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate wrote:
> 
> Forwarded message:
> 
> > Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 16:05:30 -0400
> > From: Sunder 
> > Subject: Re: Stego-empty hard drives...
> 
> > What's this bullshit, eh?  Just overwrite the BIOS roms in your machine to
> > return all zeros for the sectors you don't want to show them.  Have some
> > special passphrase you have to type in while in the BIOS setup program to
> > deactivate this.  Most newer notebooks have flash upgradeable ROMs anyway.
> 
> What's this bullshit, eh?
> 
> I wonder how you propose to answer the question:
> 
> "Sir, exactly why are you typing that sentence into the computer at this
> time?"

Ah hem! To quote myself:

> > What's this bullshit, eh?  Just overwrite the BIOS roms in your machine to
> > return all zeros for the sectors you don't want to show them.  Have some
> > special passphrase you have to type in while in the BIOS setup program to
> > deactivate this.  Most newer notebooks have flash upgradeable ROMs anyway.
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
By "this" I mean the method of not allowing access to the hidden cylinders.  By
deactivating, I mean disabling the routine that hides the hidden cylinders,
thus letting you access the partition.

This means that you wouldn't be typing in the special passphrase in front of
the Customs official.  

It means that when >YOU< wish to use your encrypted partition (in the privacy
of your hotel root), you would type in the passphrase to activate it's
visibility and accesibility to the rest of your machine.  

Further that BY DEFAULT, the hidden space on the drive (preferably a partition)
would normally not be reported by the bios hiding the true number of cylinders
from the OS's.

> Now we have not only given them probably cause but clear evidence for a
> prior intent to commit a crime. Even if your hard drive is clean they're
> going to bust your ass.

How?  You won't type in the passphrase in front of them.   You'll let the bios
do its thing and HIDE the extra partion from their scanner.

-- 

=====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos==============
.+.^.+.|       Sunder       |Prying open my 3rd eye.  So good to see |./|\.
..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were      |/\|/\
<--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run  |\/|\/
../|\..| "A toast to Odin,  |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/.
.+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were....            |.....
======================= http://www.sundernet.com ==========================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: jnbailly@west.raytheon.com
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 15:53:17 +0800
To: proff@iq.org
Subject: Re[2]: ArcotSign (was Re: Does security depend on hardware?)
Message-ID: <0EZP00M0MDZ7T6@mail.hac.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


     Woah....  I hate to interject noise, but I have to comment.  Maybe 
     Bruce's reply WAS a bit curt and not terribly helpful.  But it's 
     better to just let it drop, and not resort to criticizing typos.  I'm 
     a member of this list in the hopes that I'll learn something.  While 
     it's true that I didn't learn anything from Bruce's reply, I don't 
     think anyone gains anything from grammar/spelling corrections!
     
     *smile*
     Jacob


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: ArcotSign (was Re: Does security depend on hardware?)
Author:  proff@iq.org at mime
Date:    9/22/98 10:40 AM


> >the legitimate user has, excepting the 'remembered secret'. Or is 
> >there anything wrong with my logic?
>
> Yes.  There is something wrong with you logic. 
>
> Bruce
> ********************************************************************** 
> Bruce Schneier, President, Counterpane Systems     Phone: 612-823-1098
     
There's something wrong with you grammer.
     
Cheers,
Julian.




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Subject: Re: ArcotSign (was Re: Does security depend on hardware?)
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mok-Kong Shen 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 07:18:24 +0800
To: Bruce Schneier 
Subject: Re: ArcotSign (was Re: Does security depend on hardware?)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3607960E.DD29B101@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Bruce Schneier wrote:
> 
> At 12:48 PM 9/22/98 +0100, Mok-Kong Shen wrote:
> >Bruce Schneier wrote:

> >> He uses a remembered secret and some mathematical magic.
> >
> >Another naive question: Why is the remembered secret not sufficient
> >(thus doing away with the magic)?
> 
> One of the significant improvements is that the scheme is immune to
> offline password guessing attacks.

If the 'mathematical magic' is not to be kept secret (as in principle
shouldn't for all crypto algorithms) then presumably one could
attack through brute forcing the 'remembered secrect', I guess.
(I suppose the 'remembered secret' has less bits then the 'password'
that is to be retrieved from the pool of millions with the
'mathematical magic'). So the advantages of the scheme appear to
remain unclear as a matter of principle.

M. K. Shen




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Sunder 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 13:28:19 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: Stego-empty hard drives... (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199809221546.KAA04142@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <3607EB86.D71858FA@brainlink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate wrote:

> The point is that this is a weak approach with a variety of attacks open.

All stego methods are weak approaches at hiding data.  The point is to hide the
fact that there is hidden data and make it look like the notebook is a
perfectly normal unmodified notebook.  There's no perfect stego method that
cannot be detected by a determined analyzer.  You can hide all the data you
want in the low bits, but they naturally have biases (low entropy) that if not
present indicates stego (which has high entropy.)


> When one considers the amount of work required to collect BIOS'ed , reverse
> engineer them (unless you got lots of mullah), develop the crypto,
> develop the camouflage code, distribute the code, burn the ROM's, distribute
> the ROM's, cost of suitable TEMPEST monitors, etc. the benefit seems
> questionable at best.

Who the fuck is gonna run a tempest scanner on your notebook again?  Let's
stick to the scope of this: UK scans of your notebook using bootable floppies.
And tell me, if you were to modify your BIOS to get around this, WHY would you
need a tempest monitor?

Why would you need to collect BIOSes?  You only need to modify a single BIOS -
the one on >YOUR< notebook.  The camouflage code would be a few hundred bytes
at most unless you do something overly elaborate.

An EEPROM burner (which for flash upgradeable notebooks isn't needed) is fairly
cheap. JDR sold them for about $200 or less.  For flashable BIOSes this is
FREE!

Disassemblers (debuggers) are fairly cheap. DOS and WIN95 come with a simple
one called debug.  BIOSes run in 16 bit mode since booting requires that PC's
run in 16 bit mode and there are plenty of books and info on 16 bit x86
programming.  You don't need to disasemble everything in the BIOS, you just
need to disable the checksum routine the bios uses on itself, and you need to
slightly modify the place that detects the size of the IDE drive to not go
beyond a certain number of pointers.

Further, PC bioses do support BIOS extensions, you generally wouldn't need to
modify the existing BIOS very much at all.  If you can add a BIOS extension,
the existing BIOS will happily run code from it.  This is how SCSI adapters
provide booting capabilities from SCSI disks.  Of course it's a bit harder in a
notebook computer, but it too can be done.

Back in the days of the Commodore 64 which had only mono sound, it was fairly
comon to piggy back and solder a second sound chip on top of the existing one
with the exception of a few of the pins, and turn your C64 into a stero
machine.  (One of the pins was an address pin, the other were sound out.)  A
similar thing might be done with an EEPROM.

The way BIOSes work is that they can be set to either detect the IDE drive size
always, or just once.  Set them to NOT detect.  They store the drive type
(0-47) and size params in the battery backed up CMOS.  

An easy, but less effective thing to do is to simply write over the CMOS data
that says X cylinders, Y heads, Z sectors/track, and modify the partition table
a bit.   You can do both from DEBUG.  You'll have to write a tiny bit of
assembly, but not much.

But again, if they bypass the BIOS and talk directly to the IDE controller,
none of these techniques - short of modifying the IDE controller or drive,
won't work.
 
> Even if they can't crack it in may places (eg France) such actions would
> be prosecutable in and of themselves.

You forgot to say "If you get caught." :)  With successful stego, nobody other
than the owner knows that it's there.

If you visit France and have a notebook computer, expect the Ministry of
Whatever to sneak in your hotel room when you're not there and copy your
notebook's hard drive anyway.  Such things have been reported as industrial
espionage.  (Talk to the folks on the spyking list about getting refrences.)


One thing all you fine folks are forgetting is that there are MANY MANY types
of notebooks out there.  My money says that if they can't scan Mac's they also
won't be able to scan Sparc books, Alpha Books, Newtons, Palm Pilots, and many
WinCE palmtops either.  Just buy something exotic.

You don't need to over engineer this, keep in mind: what they're using are
use-once floppies which are discarded.  A floppy at most holds 1.7Mb of code. 
This code is used to SCAN your disk for contraband.  I don't know what they
scan for, but they aren't going to be able to fit decoders for EVERY type of
file system and every file format out there.


So far the viable non-bullshit, non-fictional solutions in order of ease of
implementations.

0. Don't go to the UK with a notebook computer.
1. Use FedEx.
2. Store the data on some other form of media (PC card disks, CD's, books, etc)
3. Use a non PC notebook that they can't scan, or one that can't use floppies
   or PCMCIA floppy drives in case they've got some around.
4. Modify the CMOS values in your notebook and your parition table.
5. Modify your BIOS to report a smaller disk
6. Same as 5 but prevent writes to the hidden space.
7. Have your BIOS not boot from floppies and boot only from the hard disk
   but make it look like it's booting normally, then run some sort of sandbox
   or emulator and let their software run under your code's control.
8. Modify your IDE controller or the controller card on the disk.

I say choice 0 is the best choice. :^)  Can we end this noisy thread or are
there other bright ideas?

-- 

=====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos==============
.+.^.+.|       Sunder       |Prying open my 3rd eye.  So good to see |./|\.
..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were      |/\|/\
<--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run  |\/|\/
../|\..| "A toast to Odin,  |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/.
.+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were....            |.....
======================= http://www.sundernet.com ==========================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mok-Kong Shen 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 07:26:46 +0800
To: Bruce Schneier 
Subject: Re: ArcotSign (was Re: Does security depend on hardware?)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <360797EF.A979141A@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Bruce Schneier wrote:
> 
> At 02:20 PM 9/22/98 +0100, Mok-Kong Shen wrote:

> >If the 'mathematical magic' is not to be kept secret (as in principle
> >shouldn't for all crypto algorithms) then presumably one could
> >attack through brute forcing the 'remembered secrect', I guess.
> 
> Yes, but only through an on-line protocol.   And if the server has some
> kind of "turn the user off after ten bad password guesses," then the
> atack doesn't work.

I remember someone wrote of the case where the attacker got the
file with the millions of passwords. Then if he also knows the
'mathematical magic' he could presumably do offline work. So I
suppose that the 'mathematical magic' has to be kept secret, which 
would work against the generally accepted crypto principles.

M. K. Shen




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 14:11:50 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Stego-empty hard drives... (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809221938.OAA06031@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 14:25:10 -0400
> From: Sunder 
> Subject: Re: Stego-empty hard drives... (fwd)

> All stego methods are weak approaches at hiding data.

We're not discussin stego, we're discussing hidden disk partitions, not
hiding data in the lsb of of existing observable disk partitions or
something similar.

> Who the fuck is gonna run a tempest scanner on your notebook again?  Let's

Considering the cost of such a scanner (a few $10k/ea.) and assuming such
masking technology were to become commen place I doubt if very many
customs checkpoints at major transfer hubs wouldn't have them.

> Why would you need to collect BIOSes?  You only need to modify a single BIOS -
> the one on >YOUR< notebook.  The camouflage code would be a few hundred bytes
> at most unless you do something overly elaborate.

I suspect it would be several k actualy since it is going to have to
include the encryption code, device drivers, wedgers, etc.

> Disassemblers (debuggers) are fairly cheap. DOS and WIN95 come with a simple
> one called debug.

A disassembler isn't a a debugger. All a disassembler does is convert the
hex to symbols (see frankenstein for an excellent design).

> programming.  You don't need to disasemble everything in the BIOS, you just
> need to disable the checksum routine the bios uses on itself, and you need to
> slightly modify the place that detects the size of the IDE drive to not go
> beyond a certain number of pointers.

So much for your few hundred bytes.

> Further, PC bioses do support BIOS extensions, you generally wouldn't need to

Um, usualy they support wedging via a jump table. This means that not only 
do you still have the original code you wedged out but you have the new
code you've wedged in. A 2x penalty.

> provide booting capabilities from SCSI disks.  Of course it's a bit harder in a
> notebook computer, but it too can be done.

Nobody says it can't be done.

> One thing all you fine folks are forgetting is that there are MANY MANY types
> of notebooks out there.

With only a few dozen BIOS'es driving the whole kit and kaboodle.

> My money says that if they can't scan Mac's they also
> won't be able to scan Sparc books, Alpha Books, Newtons, Palm Pilots, and many
> WinCE palmtops either.  Just buy something exotic.

They're new, they will learn from their mistakes and it won't take long.
After all, they have your tax dollars to use...


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mok-Kong Shen 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 07:45:43 +0800
To: Bruce Schneier 
Subject: Re: ArcotSign (was Re: Does security depend on hardware?)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <36079C71.1D2880EA@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Bruce Schneier wrote:
> 
> At 02:28 PM 9/22/98 +0100, Mok-Kong Shen wrote:
> >Bruce Schneier wrote:
> >>
> >> At 02:20 PM 9/22/98 +0100, Mok-Kong Shen wrote:
> >
> >> >If the 'mathematical magic' is not to be kept secret (as in principle
> >> >shouldn't for all crypto algorithms) then presumably one could
> >> >attack through brute forcing the 'remembered secrect', I guess.
> >>
> >> Yes, but only through an on-line protocol.   And if the server has some
> >> kind of "turn the user off after ten bad password guesses," then the
> >> atack doesn't work.
> >
> >I remember someone wrote of the case where the attacker got the
> >file with the millions of passwords. Then if he also knows the
> >'mathematical magic' he could presumably do offline work. So I
> >suppose that the 'mathematical magic' has to be kept secret, which
> >would work against the generally accepted crypto principles.
> 
> No.  The online protocol can be public.  Nothing has to be kept secret
> in order for this to work.  That would be stupid; we all know that.

I suppose you misunderstood me. I mean the 'mathematical magic'
cannot be made public. (Or is 'online protocol' = 'mathematical magic'?)
If the 'magic' is public then the attacker with the pool of passwords
could brute force offline.

M. K. Shen




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 14:24:12 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Stego-empty hard drives... (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809221948.OAA06096@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 13:04:15 -0500
> From: Petro 
> Subject: Re: Stego-empty hard drives... (fwd)

> 	At a certain threat level or level of "interest" in your affairs,
> whether you can hide the fact that you are using crypto or not is going to
> become irrelevant.

When you're at that level you don't carry the data across the line you 
get some Johnnie Mnemonic to do it for you or put it in a diplomatic pouch...

> 	If your opponent is using tempest, you are operating at that level.
> Tempest is expensive, and I'd imagine would have to be calibrated not only
> for each processor ([3-6]86, with all the variations (sx/dx, celeron, xenon
> etc,) as well as the NEC. AMD. and Cyrix clones thereof, ARM & StrongARM
> processors, PPC 601/3/4/G-3 processors, Motorola 68k processors, sparc
> processors etc) but (if you are looking at what the POST & BIOS actually
> does) for each BIOS AND OS. This is NOT an easy task, nor can it be done by
> a Bozo operating a X-Ray machine at an airport.

Consider that at any given time there are only a few hundred BIOS'es, made
from a few dozen base images, driving all the machines out there. The number
of companies that develop their own BIOS in toto for in-house products is next
to nil (I know of none). What they do is buy a license and then re-write the
sections they need to.

The TEMPEST signal will be effected by speed, I see no reason to suspect
that it's going to be processor dependant. Since the code gets executed
in the same sequence in these shared BIOS there is going to be a shared
footprint, which may get squeezed because of increased clock speed. Measuring
that footprint at ranges of inches is nowhere near as expensive as trying to
catch a monitor image from a block away.

If you store those few thousand footprints and do a compare any bozo can
in fact run the machine. Just sit and watch to see if the red light comes
on and call your supervisor.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ryan Lackey 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 13:51:41 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Arcot (fwd)
Message-ID: <19980922145220.E363@mises.systemics.ai>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



(originally to a bunch of places, but I misspelled "cypherpunks" in
the headers...)

(operating on generator power after hurricane georges struck Anguilla...)

The way I see it, there are n separate issues here, which should be
addressed separately.  The following are my summaries of the issues, using
the information I have available -- I have never seen any confidential
Arcot data, so I'm operating entirely from public sources.  It's
entirely possible my data or assumptions are incorrect -- I'd be very
happy to have someone correct me.

1) The Arcot system uses "software smartcard" repeatedly throughout its
marketing literature, and says that it provides similar security to
smartcards.  However, even in the technical paper recently posted to the
web by Arcot, it admits it does not provide resistance to a wide class
of attacks, including the two Stefan Brands mentioned:
	* Resistance to monitoring attacks on the CPU
	* End users reverse-engineering the system
I have issues with this use of the term "smartcard".  In fact, this 
system has *none* of the desirable properties of a smartcard, as users
can freely copy the authenticator.  It is, at best, equivalent to
an encrypted certificate on disk which can only be checked for
validity online (no local checksums, no structure to the cert, just
a raw random string).  The phrase "two factor authentication", used
throughout the marketing literature, is being used improperly -- 
two passwords (one remembered and one stored on disk, since the
ArcotSign authenticator is just a string of data) do not two-factor
authentication make, if two passwords (one remembered and one stored
as an encrypted certificate on disk) do not two-factor make.  It's an
open point whether both systems or neither are two-factor, but it's
pretty clear that the two are equivalent.
 
2) Scott Loftesness, the new CEO of DigiCash, proposed this system as 
potentially a viable alternative to hardware tamper resistance for 
electronic finance systems (DBS systems).  The threat model for real
electronic finance systems (including and especially DBS)
is in fact substantially more serious, as recent Rabobank windows client
attack demonstrates.  Once your customers *can* have money stolen by a
third party, it's up to you to prove they *haven't*, at least according
to US and other law, for small customers.  This means only institutions
capable of absorbing massive fraud (in absolute terms) can field
real electronic cash systems.  This is primarily a debate about
threat models for a specific application, rather than a technical one.

3) The system appears to use PKC for no reason -- it is a closed system,
like Kerberos, and only limits itself by using PKC.  Kerberos, developed
by some list participants *years* ago, appears to solve every problem
Arcot claims to solve.  Additionally, Kerberos (in some form) is now
being integrated into MS Windows NT, so it is widely available.

4) Bruce Schneier, one of the firm's technical advisors, says "it's not
[sufficient for] online real estate [presumably meaning high value
transactions with no recourse]", but that it is for "ninny net users in
chat rooms".  The apps Bruce Schneier seems to propose the Arcot system for
("systems like AOL" (read: porn sites on the WWW)) are more concerned with 
their users not being able to share passwords than anything else.  For
that application, simple IP-based security in addition to passwords is
sufficient, or other means of ensuring an authenticator is linked to
an individual.  The Arcot system does not provide security from this
issue (even though it is intended for closed networks, where such
functionality would be highly possible).

However, the firm's marketing information seems to be selling this to
corporate web sites, for protecting high value corporate data.  I find
it highly unlikely any board of directors would consider their proprietary
corporate data closer to "ninny net users in chat rooms" than something
requiring real security.

(Even people without real security requirements often want high security,
or at least systems with no known limitations -- I use high-grade encryption
to protect my credit card information, even though my liability is limited
to $50, and many other users are unwilling to use 40-bit crypto to protect
their credit card numbers.)

5) The point was raised that in a smartcard system, you don't know what
you're signing.  I agree completely.  However, in a smartcard system, you
can protect the *keys* to a far higher level than protecting the
*use* of the keys when the key is physically present.  This is a substantially
lower level of risk, particularly if a security policy is included in
the smart card, such as only disbursing a limited amount of money per
unit time, or monitoring suspicious transactions, or handling user
authentication through a strong external channel, such as a PIN reader
attached directly to the smartcard reader.

The earlier debate on smartcards vs. tamper-resistant computers with I/O
leads me to believe that for electronic cash in reasonable value ranges 
(>$1000), you most likely want to go with *more* than a smartcard (as in,
a tamper resistant computer), but certainly you don't want to go with *less*.

For many applications, a combination of trusted time (on the smartcard) and
a trusted smartcard (and perhaps location) would be sufficient -- a user
could then be made to prove they were not in a certain location at a certain
time when a transaction were made to absolve themselves of responsibility for
it.

6) "Hardware is expensive"  So is software.  The cost of implementing
any authentication mechanism, particularly in a closed system, is
relatively constant -- passwords through cheap hardware -- as most of the
cost is in administrative overhead, user training, etc.  I'd far rather
go with an $8 Dallas Semiconductor iButton plus $0-$100 software plus
$400/user training/etc. cost than $0 hardware plus $x software plus
the same user training cost.  In many systems, hardware is *cheaper* in
the long run, as users understand it better, are better at doing their
own key management, etc.  It is exactly for closed systems where hardware
solutions *shine* compared to software, even if they provide the *same*
security in absolute terms -- the hardware solution has lower life-cycle costs.

For an open system, or one where you have minimal control over the users
(such as AOL, or a porn WWW site, or whatever), the requirement that
software be added to the local machine is usually prohibitively expensive.
In that kind of application, all of the intelligence needs to go on the
server -- an online password checking system, coupled with standard browser
features like client certificates, is about the most you can expect, and
even that is pushing it (until MIT did cert support for Lynx, many of
my machines were unable to use certificates at all).

7) "The system is patent-pending."

I do not see how the system is provably higher in security or any
other worthwhile features than the following widely deployable, standard, 
free system:
* online password checking of user passwords, optionally changing in
some kind of one-time-pad system, passed through an SSL-encrypted link
to the server, such that if a password guess attempts were made, the
account could be locked out.

* encrypted local certificates, encrypted with optionally a different
passphrase, which do *not* need to be kept secret.

This provides "two factor" authentication to the same extent as the Arcot
system, is easy to implement using standard systems, and is conceptually
simple.

In the event that the Arcot system is no better than the above (which I
believe), which is *not* patentable, I fail to see why the issue of
whether Arcot's system can be patented is important.  The only parts
which could be patented (as far as I can tell) are accidental, not the
essential functionality of quasi-two factor authentication with online
password checking to prevent off-line attacks.


8) The various IP/patent/etc. issues

A company could implement open standards based authentication, in an
open way, publish papers on every detail of their system, etc. and still
make quite a bit of money.  They do this through the quality of their
*software engineering*, not the quality of their idea.  Ideas are expensive
to create, and impossible to keep secret, even with patents.  Once you
come up with an idea, most of what gives it value is the review process
itself, not the initial idea.  That's why the valuable ideas I can think of,
at least in crypto, have mainly come from universities and open research
labs -- they can more cheaply be reviewed.  Only the NSA has the resources
to make an idea valuable and also keep it closed (and if you believe
Payne, even they don't...)


I understand that Arcot is a commercial company, and that it's trying
to make money, but I don't think that actually counters any of the points
presented above -- if anything, it makes them stronger, as Arcot has
a strong desire to increase the value of its assets (the deliverable
authentication system) much more so than a random hacker working on this
as a curiosity.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mok-Kong Shen 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 08:25:45 +0800
To: Bruce Schneier 
Subject: Re: ArcotSign (was Re: Does security depend on hardware?)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3607A04E.BE164E44@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Bruce Schneier wrote:
> 
> >I suppose you misunderstood me. I mean the 'mathematical magic'
> >cannot be made public. (Or is 'online protocol' = 'mathematical magic'?)
> >If the 'magic' is public then the attacker with the pool of passwords
> >could brute force offline.
> 
> No.  You misunderstood me.  There is NOTHING secret except the key.
> The online protocol, mathematical magic, source code, algorithm details,
> and everything else can be made public.  There are no secrets in the
> system except for the keys.

In that case please allow me to go back to a point raised by me
previously. The user uses his 'remembered secret' (of fewer bits) 
through a public algorithm (including protocol) to retrieve from a 
pool the password (of more bits). If the attacker doesn't have the 
pool then everything looks fine. But if he manages to get the pool
(a case someone mentioned in this thread) then he can obviously
brute force offline, I believe, since he possesses now everything
the legitimate user has, excepting the 'remembered secret'. Or is
there anything wrong with my logic?

M. K. Shen




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ben Laurie 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 09:24:22 +0800
To: Bruce Schneier 
Subject: Re: ArcotSign (was Re: Does security depend on hardware?)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3607B318.BC911171@algroup.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Bruce Schneier wrote:
> >(I suppose the 'remembered secret' has less bits then the 'password'
> >that is to be retrieved from the pool of millions with the
> >'mathematical magic'). So the advantages of the scheme appear to
> >remain unclear as a matter of principle.
> 
> The advantages are that offline password guessing is impossible.

The 'I' word always makes me nervous - do you really mean that, or do
you just mean "very difficult"?

Cheers,

Ben.

-- 
Ben Laurie            |Phone: +44 (181) 735 0686| Apache Group member
Freelance Consultant  |Fax:   +44 (181) 735 0689|http://www.apache.org/
and Technical Director|Email: ben@algroup.co.uk |
A.L. Digital Ltd,     |Apache-SSL author     http://www.apache-ssl.org/
London, England.      |"Apache: TDG" http://www.ora.com/catalog/apache/

WE'RE RECRUITING! http://www.aldigital.co.uk/




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mok-Kong Shen 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 08:42:29 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Stego-empty hard drives... (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199809220116.UAA20070@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <3607A71E.14DB9826@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Mark Hahn wrote:
> 
> 2) If you can't leave your floppy at home, carry your sensitive data on
> a PCMCIA Type-II Hard Drive. Kingston sells one sporting 500MB
> of capacity. Pop it out and put it as far away from the laptop as you
> can. Inside your other luggage somewhere.

I am ignorant about hardware. Question: Wouldn't it be possible to
somehow put information on a music CD?




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bruce Schneier 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 16:43:28 +0800
To: proff@iq.org
Subject: Re: ArcotSign (was Re: Does security depend on hardware?)
In-Reply-To: <4.0.2.19980922114142.00956610@mail.visi.com>
Message-ID: <4.0.2.19980922155723.00956a50@mail.visi.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 03:40 AM 9/23/98 +1000, proff@iq.org wrote:
>> >the legitimate user has, excepting the 'remembered secret'. Or is
>> >there anything wrong with my logic?
>> 
>> Yes.  There is something wrong with you logic.
>> 
>> Bruce
>> **********************************************************************
>> Bruce Schneier, President, Counterpane Systems     Phone: 612-823-1098
>
>There's something wrong with you grammer.

Touche.

Bruce
**********************************************************************
Bruce Schneier, President, Counterpane Systems     Phone: 612-823-1098
101 E Minnehaha Parkway, Minneapolis, MN  55419      Fax: 612-823-1590
           Free crypto newsletter.  See:  http://www.counterpane.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 09:59:01 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: CHALLENGE response (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809221501.RAA05998@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



The whole point of the CHALLENGE response went straight over his head,
didn't it?  It's almost as though there are two mailing lists here: the
one for dolts, where Jim Choate gets into his idiotic little arguments
with his fellow fools, yammering back and forth on totally off-topic
matters, and the one for people interested in cryptography and its
implications.

We have here the first known case where a key was constructed ex post
facto to validate a signed message, in response to Adam Back's challenge.
No longer can you assume that just because you posted a signed message
on a certain date, and you hold the public key which signed that message,
that you can later prove authorship.  It challenges some of the implicit
assumptions which have been made in using public key cryptography.

And all Jim Choate can do is take issue with a snippet of Toto's ravings
which were included purely to illustrate the signature validity.  He is
completely unaware of what is really happening.

Jim Choate writes:

> Forwarded message:
> 
> > Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 08:01:07 +0200
> > From: Anonymous 
> > Subject: CHALLENGE response
> 
> > "Contrary to one famous philosopher,
> > you're saying the medium is not the
> > message," Judge Thomas Nelson said,
> > alluding to the media theorist Marshall
> > McLuhan. 
> > http://www.nytimes.com/library/cyber/week/120997encrypt-bernstein.html
> > 
> >   Bullshit!
> >   The bits and bytes of email encryption are a clear message
> > that I wish to exercise my right to speak freely, without those
> > who wish to do me harm invading my privacy.
> 
> If you're going to take that tack then you need to invoke freedom of the
> press and not freedom of speech.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Hohensee 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 12:43:09 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: <3607E291.4D7BFFBA@is9.nyu.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate wrote:
> 
> Forwarded message:
> 
> > Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 00:46:03 +0000
> > From: Michael Hohensee 
> > Subject: Re: Stego-empty hard drives... (fwd)
> 
> > I believe that the idea was to set it up so that BIOS defaults to
> > HD-hiding mode.
> 
> How do you propose to do this? Via a BIOS setting?

Well, I don't propose to do it at all, since I lack the expertise to do
it or even know how much trouble it would be to do it. :)

I believe that the idea was to change BIOS itself.  That is, change the
BIOS program, rather than a setting.  This was to be done by
flash-updating the BIOS with a new program.

> > When you're taking your laptop through customs, you do
> > nothing while the machine boots up, the doctored BIOS does its thing,
> > and everybody's happy.  When you want to get at the stuff on the rest of
> > the HD, you reboot and type in your passphrase.
> 
> How do you propose to prompt the user for the correct time to type?

Perhaps the new BIOS program listens for something like Ctrl-Shift-P,
and if it gets it, goes into passphrase mode.  Otherwise, it does its
little trick.  As long as the doctored BIOS program produces a normal
looking bootup sequence (but hides the HD), everything's fine.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Brian B. Riley" 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 17:03:24 +0800
To: "Jim Choate" 
Subject: Re: Stego-empty hard drives... (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809222204.SAA28569@mx01.together.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On 9/22/98 1:43 PM, Jim Choate (ravage@einstein.ssz.com)  passed this 
wisdom:

>Forwarded message:
>
>> Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 11:07:34 -0500
>> From: Petro 
>> Subject: Re: Stego-empty hard drives... (fwd)
>
>> 	I don't know how hard this would be, but how about running a
>> seperate memory check, and while those numbers are flashing on the screen,
>> do the wait for imput?
>
>So hide the keyscan in the memory counter code. Would work externaly, would
>probably not show up on TEMPEST. Since both the keyscan and the memory scan
>are repetitive TEMPEST might have a problem telling them apart. Provided you
>could get the keyscan in the same footprint as the mem check the BIOS
>would not show up as anomolous in size. As long as they're not running
>around doing checksums you'd be ok (I suspect).

 Don't most memory scans do a keyscan anyway? looking for an ESC to 
bypass the scan? So have it also check for something else to bring up 
your special routine. It should pass all but the most detailed signature 
analysis.


Brian B. Riley --> http://members.macconnect.com/~brianbr
 For PGP Keys  

 "Give a man a fish and you have fed him for a day, but give him a case
  of dynamite and soon the village will be showered with mud and
  seaweed and unidentifiable chunks of fish." -Joe Chew





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Brian B. Riley" 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 17:03:21 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer" 
Subject: Re: Stego-empty hard drives... (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809222204.SAA28577@mx01.together.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On 9/22/98 3:48 PM, Jim Choate (ravage@einstein.ssz.com)  passed this
wisdom:

>When you're at that level you don't carry the data across the line
>you get some Johnnie Mnemonic to do it for you or put it in a 
>diplomatic pouch...

I think the real answer here, and totally in keeping with the KISS
rule, has already been suggested. If you have sensitive data you keep
it on a PCMCIA hard drive card and remove it when not in use (or a
CD-R or a ZipDisk, though the PCMCIA hard drive does allow it to be a
'working' volume featuring speed and capacity that a Zip or a CD-R
cannot offer). It can work as easily for a desktop as for a laptop.
You can add to the security of this by using your platform of choice's
flavor of Secure Drive, Cryptdisk, PGPDisk, etc.

The ultimate stego is that the card is nowhere near the computer with
the main hard drive and they don't bother looking beyond when the
drive evaluation turns nothing up.

If its trafficking in illicit data the "mule' shouldn't even be
carrying a computer (or maybe only a Palm Pilot!) so the hounds have
even less reason to be looking for comp[uter stuff on him.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0
Charset: noconv

iQEVAwUBNggY7j7r4fUXwraZAQG3swf8C3ypMG6EyI6t2I2LIpcwyV37Khv6Vm06
15HZ7rFOzrqwXG8RjDw4e99f5H76IG9FuDJUbUfJX0lS9aKtEaeeuSPUmtso8Au9
NrdTp3lHxMYJH9q+d8l1gVZWOnLQCjiJ7Ytd4LCmhmb3Ds58Sa41YoM71EFKZJkK
AIBC2pmkRT1ido4uvtLc9qjPDf/jtLHVH17tMdBKCvn6R8jbLq4QHk6T0J9rJt1O
+owC6R8YGpWjXPkIicsgfDD6qJiyyLLAMRX/1qWLVI+2CjeImhMsUGjafkq98x/B
UU6bGq8B5m2aJmpVMqGFceuJe4mUTtqxLfYF/MlwLokib7ap8+EEZw==
=A9fC
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


Brian B. Riley --> http://members.macconnect.com/~brianbr
  For PGP Keys  

   "First say to your self what you would be; then do what you
    have to do."  Epictetus (35-135 A.D.)





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 19:20:32 +0800
To: ukcrypto@maillist.ox.ac.uk
Subject: public key problems
Message-ID: <36083BEF.2AF1@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Tuesday 9/22/98 5:59 PM

Smith http://www.softwar.net/softd.html

I am reading

http://www.softwar.net/mcc.html

I scanned-in the attached letter from McNamara.

Morales and I have been considering an appropriate response.

Public key has cost NSA and the gov BIG BUCKs.

Numerical analyst Richard Hanson worked in the same math group as
Simmons, Brickell and Norris.

http://www.vni.com/products/imsl/hanson.html          

Mike Norris, Hanson told me, designed the reciprocal approximation
used for division.

Hanson told me several days ago he knows what went wrong mathematically.

Hanson told me that he is even thinking of writing an article about
it.

I WAS TOLD what went wrong electronically.  By John Wisniewski.
And FUNCTIONALLY by Ron Kulju.

best 
bill


		NATIONAL SECURITY AGENCY
            FORT GEORGE G. MEADE, MARYLAND 20755-6000

					Serial:	J9343A-98
					19 August 1998


Mr. William H. Payne
13015 Calle de Sandias
Albuquerque, NM 87111

Dear Mr. Payne:

	This replies to your 15 May 1998 letter appealing the National Security Agency's (NSA) decision to 
deny your request for a fee waiver for your Freedom of Information Act request for invoices from various 
companies to NSA for payments for developing public key-related chips or Clipper chip-related hardware 
between January 1980 and February 1998. Your appeal was received in the Office of General
Counsel on 29 May 1998. I have reviewed your 27 February 1998 request, the Office of Policy's 30 March 
1998 response, and your appeal letter; and I have concluded that the fee waiver should not be granted.

	In reaching this decision, a number of factors were evaluated in light of the Act's purpose of  
promoting an informed citizenry.  The key issue I considered in my review is whether disclosure of the 
information is likely to contribute to the pubic understanding of the operations or activities of the government. 
See 5 U.S.C. § 552 (a)(4XA)(iii). Implicit in this standard is a requirement to assess the nature of the 
information requested and whether it will likely be disseminated to the general public and will contribute to 
increased public understanding of the operations of the government. In order to support a fee waiver; the 
connection between furnishing the requested information and benefiting the public should be substantial.

	You have not indicated how you intend to disseminate any  information which might be released; we 
assume that you intend to place the material on the Internet. Making information available by posting it on the 
Internet so that a segment of interested persons might seek access to it does not meet the burden of 
demonstrating with particularity that the information will significantly contribute to the understanding of the 
public at large. You have not demonstrated that you have the skills and knowledge to be able to compile, 
analyze, and turn the materials into a distinct work understandable to the general public. Accordingly, 
I have determined that the public interest is better served in this instance by requiring, rather than waiving, the 
fee assessment.
	
	This response may be construed as a denial of your appeal. Accordingly, you are hereby advised of 
your right to seek judicial review of my decision pursuant to 5 U.S.C. § 552(a)(4)B) in the United States 
District Court in the district in which you reside, in which you have your principal place of business, 
in which the Agency's records are situated (U.S. District Court of Maryland), or in the District of Columbia.

	As the Deputy Director of Policy explained to you, you have been placed in the"all other" category for 
fee purposes; this entitles you to 2 hours of search time and up to 100 pages free of charge. Your case file has 
been returned to the Office of Policy. Processing of your request has been suspended pending receipt of your
certified check or money order made payable to the Treasurer of United States in the amount of $750.00. If you 
have any questions or wish to narrow your request in order to reduce fees, please contact the Office of Policy 
between 0830 and 1600 EST on 301-688-6527. If we do not hear from you within 30 days, we will assume you 
are not interested in pursuing this request.

Sincerely,



BARBARA A. McNAMARA
Freedom of Information Act/Privacy Act
Appeals Authority



Friday February 27, 1998 3:15 PM


By e-mail and US mail

Lieutenant General Kenneth A Minihan, USAF

Director, National Security Agency
National Security Agency
9800 Savage Road
Fort George G. Meade, MD 20755-6000

Dear General Minihan:

Purposes of the letter are to

1  request information under the Freedom of Information Act
2  explore settlement possibilities of our current lawsuit.

In about 1986 Sandia National Laboratories assigned me the 
task of  design and construction of a Comprehensive Test Ban 
Treaty seismic data authenticator.

In the initial stages of the project, Sandia cryptographer 
Gustavus Simmons attempted to convince both Sandia 
management and NSA employees Tom White, Mark Unkenholtz,
and Ed Georgio that a form of public key authentication should 
replace NSA employee Ronald Benincasa's National Seismic
Station/Unmaned Seismic Observatory 11-bit data authentication
algorithm.

My Sandia supervisor John Holovka and project leader H B [Jim]
Durham ordered me to write a paper explaining public key 
cryptography.

This paper,  RSA ENCRYPTION, along with my SAND report
describing my implementation of Benincasa's algorithm and
filings in our lawsuit, now appear on Internet at
http://www.jya.com/index.htm, click CRYPTOME, then OpEd,
then http://www.jya.com/whprsa.htm.

Sandia explored the merits of switching from Benincasa's
algorithm to a public key-based authentication method suggested
by Simmons.

For Sandia's evaluation of the merits of public key, electronic tagging,
and Bureau of Engraving and Printing projects ,  I bought for Sandia 
samples both the Cylink CY1024 and AT&T A & B two chip sets for
modulo m arithmetic computations.

NSA employee Tom White sent me a copy of the SECRET classified
NSA report on IBM's hardware public key chip FIREFLY.

I wrote in my tutorial paper

  RSA hardware computations

  The slow speed of software RSA computations plus the potential
  wide use prompted several companies to build chips which compute
  modular arithmetic to at least several hundred bits.  Most of
  these chips "cascade" to compute with a larger number of bits.

  Corporations involved in building these chips are

     1  IBM  Firefly

     2  AT&T

     3  Motorola (apparently a three chip set)

     4  Cylink   Pittway-First alert

     5  Sandia Labs (Algorithm M and predecessor chip)

  Details of the IBM chip is classified.  AT&T as of July 1987 has
  not released details of their chip.  Little information is
  available on the Motorola chip set.

  The Cylink chip is commercially available.  Its price dropped
  from $1,500 to $600 each in June 1987.  Data is transferred to
  and from the chip with serial shift register communication.

  The early Sandia chip was limited in speed.  The replacement
  chip is cascadeable, communicates with 8 or 16 bits parallel,
  matches the speed of the Cylink chip, but is not out of
  fabrication.

  Rumors circulate that there is about an order of magnitude
  performance difference between some of these chips.

  These hardware chips improve exponentiation speed about 3 orders
  of magnitude over software implementation benchmarked on an Intel
  8086 family microcomputer.

Whitfield Diffie writes about both the Cylink and Sandia chips.  And
is quoted at  http://www.aci.net/kalliste/nukearse.htm.

Sandia had terrible luck with its public key chips.  

I reported SOME of the troubles to Electronic Engineering Times editor 
Loring Wirbel [http://techweb.cmp.com/eet/823/] on March 23, 1994.

        Dr. John Wisniewski was a supervisor at Sandia's Center for
        Radiation-hardened Microelectronics.  Wisniewski was a graduate
        student at Washington State University in about 1975.  I was a
        professor at WSU.

        Wisniewski knows all about the failing Sandia chips in the nuclear
        arsenal.  I took notes on February 13, 1993.  Wisniewski reviewed
        the problems again for me.

             1    No quality initiative.  Each chip lot had a different
                  process.
             2    Overall yield - 40-50%.  Down to 10% after packaging.
             3    Metalization problems.  No planarization.  No flow of
                  glass.  Couldn't use high temperature.  Step coverage
                  problems.  Layed down over tension.  100% field returns
                  over several years.
             4    Sandia would store lots of parts for replacements.

        Sandia management made the decision to place low yield parts in
        the nuclear arsenal.  Sandia must meet DOD schedules management
        reasoned.  Hundreds of millions spent on CRM.  Sandia must show
        productivity.

        Wisniewski told me that low yield chip test survivors are those   
        whichthe tests failed to detect failures.  Wisniewski will talk.  
        503-625-6408.  Wisniewski now works for Intel in Oregon.  Have 
        Wisniewski tell you about the fire in the CRM clean room!

Sandia supervisor Jerry Allen later told me it cost $300,000 each to remove
Sandia's failing chips at Pantex from a nuclear bomb.

NSA apparently is biased toward hardware implementations of cryptographic
and authentication algorithms.  As opposed to software implementation.

NSA representatives and Sandia management decided not to use a public
key authentication scheme for its CTBT seismic data authenticator because
of all of the problems with implementing public key algorithms.

But NSA surely has spent MUCH MONEY on public key chip implementations.

NSA is promoting its Clipper crypto chips as described at 
http://cpsr.org/dox/clipper.html.

And we get some information about technical specifications of NSA's Clipper
chip at http://www.us.net/softwar/http://www.us.net/softwar/clip.html

  Clipper Chip Information

  MYK-78 CLIPPER CHIP ENCRYPTION/DECRYPTION  ON A CHIP 

     1 micron double level metal CMOS technology 
     0.35 watts power 
     28 pin plastic leaded chip carrier (PLCC) package 
     Transistor to transistor logic (TTL) interface 
     Chip ID, family key and device unique key are installed at 
     programming. 
     Chip ID, family key and device unique key are installed at programming           
     facility and are completely transparent to the user.

Therefore, Under the provision of the Freedom of Information Act, 
5 USC 552, I am requesting access to: 

1  Copies of all invoices from

	A   AT&T
	B   Motorola
	C   IBM
	D  Sandia National Laboratories

to NSA for payments for developing ANY public key-related chips between 
January 1, 1980 and February 27, 1998.

2  Copies of all invoices to NSA from ANY corporation involved in 
development
of ANY Clipper chip-related hardware between January 1, 1980 and 
February 27, 1998.

The public has a right to know how much NSA spent on TRYING monoploize the 
crypto business.

If there are any fees for searching for, or copying, the records I have 
requested, please inform me before you fill the request.

As you know, the Act permits you to reduce or waive the fees when the 
release of the information is considered as "primarily benefiting the 
public."
  
I believe that this requests fits that category and I therefore ask that 
you waive any fees.

If all or any part of this request is denied, please cite the specific 
exemption(s) which you think justifies your refusal to release the information and inform me of your agency's administrative appeal procedures available to me under the law.

I would appreciate your handling this request as quickly as possible, and I 
look forward to hearing from you within 20 working days, as the law stipulates.

With respect to our current FOIA lawsuit, I feel that we should settle this
unfortunate matter.

I see from your biography at  http://www.nsa.gov:8080/ and
http://www.nsa.gov:8080/dirnsa/dirnsa.html that you are

         1979   Distinguished Graduate
         Master of Arts degree in National Security Affairs 
         Naval Postgraduate School 
         Monterey, California

One of my former M.S. and Ph.D students in Computer Science,
Ted Lewis, is currently the chairman of Computer Science at
Naval Postgraduate School [http://www.friction-free-economy.com/].

Small world.

But I think that this emphasizes that WE SHOULD all be on the same side.
Not engaged in a conflict in US federal court.  Or on Internet.

NSA attempts to withhold requested information are possibly unwise.  

In our wired world the aggrieved know what happened to them.
[http://www.aci.net/kalliste/speccoll.htm]. http://www.wpiran.org/,
http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/impact/namir/namirm.html

And moderates in Iran, [http://persia.org/khatami/biography.html], appear 
want settlement too.

My family and I have been damaged by these crypto wars.

I ask you that consider fair settlement of damages caused by the National
Security Agency.

I cannot find your e-mail address on Internet.

Therefore I will forward the e-mail copy of this FOIA/settlement letter to 
Ray Kammer of NIST [http://www.nist.gov/], who along with the FBI 
[http://www.fbi.gov/, http://www.fbi.gov/fo/nyfo/nytwa.htmand], and NSA 
are trying to control the crypto business so that Kammer can possibly
forward an e-mail copy of the FOIA/Settlement letter to you.

Sincerely,

bill

William Payne
13015 Calle de Sandias
Albuquerque, NM 87111
505-292-7037 [I am not reading e-mail]




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 17:43:03 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Stego-empty hard drives... (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809222308.SAA07042@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Subject: Re: Stego-empty hard drives... (fwd)
> Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 18:04:28 -0400
> From: "Brian B. Riley" 

>  Don't most memory scans do a keyscan anyway? looking for an ESC to 
> bypass the scan?

Some do, some don't. A lot of new machines resolve those issues in the BIOS
with a setting that allows you to choose between a couple of options at
post.

> So have it also check for something else to bring up 
> your special routine. It should pass all but the most detailed signature 
> analysis.

Maybe, the fact that you've added an extra block of code in there to check
for the additional keystroke would cause the cycle length of that section of
ML to be slightly longer, probably no more than 30 - 40 clock cycles. If
you're looking at the EM radiation that lengthening could show up.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: User of DOOM 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 11:10:19 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Clinton's fake apologies (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809221610.SAA07027@rogue.seclab.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Anonymous wrote:
> On 20 Sep 1998, [I] wrote: [about lieing]
> > I agree it's bad. I agree it undermines the justice system a little bit.
> > But, ... impeachment?
> 
> Yes.
> 
> We have some jokester sitting in Washington with full authority over our
> military forces. The people can't believe a word he says. Congress can't
> believe a word he says. He rules by executive order. He ignores the
> Constitution.
> 
> There is argument over whether he ordered military strikes to divert
> attention from his scandal and whether he sold the country out to the Red
> Chinese. Now people like myself are thinking - totally justified - that
> this guy will do absolutely anything to hold on to his presidency.
> 
> I don't feel particularly secure with some guy who I can't trust running
> the military and with his finger on the nuclear button. That itself is a
> violation of national security.

Understandable sentiments. The position I can't understand is Jim's,
of being totally outraged by the lieing under oath regardless of anything else.
[although I respect his right to that opinion].

Unfortunately, you now wear the mantle of wanting to put away
Bill "Al Capone" Klinton not for tax evasion, but for "fibbing".

-- an anonymous aol32 user.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 18:26:38 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: respect due to anonymous (Re: CHALLENGE response (fwd)) (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809222352.SAA07394@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 20:20:37 +0100
> From: Adam Back 
> Subject: respect due to anonymous (Re: CHALLENGE response (fwd))

> Munge signatures!?  He generated an RSA key pair to match the
> pre-published signature based on generating primes of special form
> and/or using multiple smaller primes to construct an n which he could
> perform discrete logs in (plus a dead beef attack), and all you can
> say is the above.  You should take you hat off to anonymous.

What he did is respectable. Is he the first? I doubt it.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 21:02:11 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Police seek to intercept emails without warrant: UK
Message-ID: <199809230203.TAA21764@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Police seek to intercept emails without warrant: UK
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 11:13:14 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  London Telegraph
http://www.telegraph.co.uk:80/et?ac=000150689433551&rtmo=wMontQMb&atmo=99999
999&P4_FOLLOW_ON=/98/9/20/nemai20.html&pg=/et/98/9/20/nemai20.html

UK News 
Electronic Telegraph 
Sunday 20 September 1998
Issue 1213

Police seek to intercept emails without warrant
By David Bamber 

THE police will be able to intercept private emails without obtaining
a warrant, under a new agreement being finalised with Internet
providers.

The Telegraph has discovered that the police are negotiating the right
to monitor electronic letters by examining information held on disks
at the offices of the computer companies providing the links.
Because the laws on interception were drafted before emails were
widely used, the police do not need to obtain individual warrants to
read the correspondence. Telephone tapping and the interception of
ordinary post require a warrant from the Home Secretary, Jack
Straw.

The police say they need access to emails sent by the country's
eight-million Internet users so that they can monitor criminal activity,
especially paedophile and pornography rings. Mr Straw is backing
the proposed agreement. The police want all Internet providers to
keep copies of emails for a week. But the far-reaching moves have
led to fears that the private correspondence of innocent people and
businesses will be routinely monitored.

Liz Parratt, of the civil liberties organisation, Liberty, said: "Allowing
the police to read emails without a warrant would be akin to allowing
them to steam open our letters as soon as we put them in the post
box. I'd be interested to hear if any Internet providers signed up to
this shabby deal."

The first of three forums between Internet providers and the
Association of Chief Police Officers will be held in Edinburgh on
Tuesday.

(c) Copyright Telegraph Group Limited 1998.
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




**********************************************
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     majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com
with the message:
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**********************************************
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mok-Kong Shen 
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 01:23:05 +0800
To: Bruce Schneier 
Subject: Re: ArcotSign (was Re: Does security depend on hardware?)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3607DA11.6250C39A@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Bruce Schneier wrote:
> 
> At 03:04 PM 9/22/98 +0100, Mok-Kong Shen wrote:
> >Bruce Schneier wrote:
> >>
> >> >I suppose you misunderstood me. I mean the 'mathematical magic'
> >> >cannot be made public. (Or is 'online protocol' = 'mathematical magic'?)
> >> >If the 'magic' is public then the attacker with the pool of passwords
> >> >could brute force offline.
> >>
> >> No.  You misunderstood me.  There is NOTHING secret except the key.
> >> The online protocol, mathematical magic, source code, algorithm details,
> >> and everything else can be made public.  There are no secrets in the
> >> system except for the keys.
> >
> >In that case please allow me to go back to a point raised by me
> >previously. The user uses his 'remembered secret' (of fewer bits)
> >through a public algorithm (including protocol) to retrieve from a
> >pool the password (of more bits). If the attacker doesn't have the
> >pool then everything looks fine. But if he manages to get the pool
> >(a case someone mentioned in this thread) then he can obviously
> >brute force offline, I believe, since he possesses now everything
> >the legitimate user has, excepting the 'remembered secret'. Or is
> >there anything wrong with my logic?
> 
> Yes.  There is something wrong with you logic.

Please kindly explain. I like very much to learn from my errors.
Thank you very much in advance.

M. K. Shen




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 05:42:57 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: one-time pad
Message-ID: <2deab6ac1f0adf822ecf2e799fd0ba71@anonymous>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Where can I get the one-time pad in perl? The one I have I can't figure
out how to input data into it:

#!/bin/perl
vec($_,0,1);
open(P,shift);
read(P,$p,length),print $_^$p while<>

Can anyone help?





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Sunder 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 18:47:48 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: (99% noise) Stego-empty hard drives... (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199809221948.OAA06096@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <3608369E.6018339C@brainlink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate wrote:

> Consider that at any given time there are only a few hundred BIOS'es, made
> from a few dozen base images, driving all the machines out there. The number
> of companies that develop their own BIOS in toto for in-house products is next
> to nil (I know of none). What they do is buy a license and then re-write the
> sections they need to.

See: http://www.ping.be/bios/ for bioses and flash upgrades.
 
> The TEMPEST signal will be effected by speed, I see no reason to suspect
> that it's going to be processor dependant. Since the code gets executed
> in the same sequence in these shared BIOS there is going to be a shared
> footprint, which may get squeezed because of increased clock speed. Measuring
> that footprint at ranges of inches is nowhere near as expensive as trying to
> catch a monitor image from a block away.
> 
> If you store those few thousand footprints and do a compare any bozo can
> in fact run the machine. Just sit and watch to see if the red light comes
> on and call your supervisor.

Come on guys, this is silly. Why the fuck would the UK tempest scan your 
notebooks?  Manufacturers produce new machines every month, each with modified
BIOSes for the features in their new notebooks, with hardware variations and 
imperfection, with different power levels of batteries, different PC cards
installed, different CPU speeds, different options and other inconsistencies
you get a very difficult situation.  

Your speculation that someone out there will tempest scan to see if you've
modded your notebook is silly.  Are you just pissing against the wind, or do
you have knowledge that they actually do this?

You're forgetting your threat model and planning for a level that's beyond
demented paranoia.

-- 

=====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos==============
.+.^.+.|       Sunder       |Prying open my 3rd eye.  So good to see |./|\.
..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were      |/\|/\
<--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run  |\/|\/
../|\..| "A toast to Odin,  |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/.
.+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were....            |.....
======================= http://www.sundernet.com ==========================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 19:21:57 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: (99% noise) Stego-empty hard drives... (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809230049.TAA07693@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 19:45:34 -0400
> From: Sunder 
> Subject: Re: (99% noise) Stego-empty hard drives... (fwd)

> Jim Choate wrote:
> 
> > Consider that at any given time there are only a few hundred BIOS'es, made
> > from a few dozen base images, driving all the machines out there. The number
> > of companies that develop their own BIOS in toto for in-house products is next
> > to nil (I know of none). What they do is buy a license and then re-write the
> > sections they need to.
> 
> See: http://www.ping.be/bios/ for bioses and flash upgrades.

Ok, so I went and looked. That particular page covers ONLY Award and AMI
BIOS's. Every one of those *thousands* of machines have a BIOS which is
about 90% cherry and built from only a few dozen base builds.

It actualy supports my premise that despite the thousands of machines the
base BIOS images that drive them are really not that large.

> Come on guys, this is silly. Why the fuck would the UK tempest scan your 
> notebooks?  Manufacturers produce new machines every month, each with modified
> BIOSes for the features in their new notebooks, with hardware variations and 
> imperfection, with different power levels of batteries, different PC cards
> installed, different CPU speeds, different options and other inconsistencies
> you get a very difficult situation.  

And everyone one of them available publicly. You seriously think it's harder
to keep up with the number of BIOS'es out there than say tracking the
number of international phone calls in a year?

> Your speculation that someone out there will tempest scan to see if you've
> modded your notebook is silly.  Are you just pissing against the wind, or do
> you have knowledge that they actually do this?

Not if it is only one or two, if it becomes a serious issue you bet they'll
do it in a heartbeat.

> You're forgetting your threat model and planning for a level that's beyond
> demented paranoia.

Your absolutely correct, they are paranoid.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 18:16:32 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: pgpacket bug (Re: CHALLENGE? Toto/signature attack w. unpublished public key)
In-Reply-To: <199809220108.DAA07731@replay.com>
Message-ID: <199809221857.TAA11080@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Anonymous writes:
> This value is wrong: it has 3 bytes of 0's inserted and is therefore
> missing the last three bytes of the signature.
> 
> s =   0x08F4D5CBC10063725B206F787EB7370BBD0C5B4854CE79A9007D1801AEAEE6E6
>         D2C68D7EDF877FECE1FA539D08BEC54BD152BA05113951E8A84CDECAD2CB8E7A
>         C28BE916570BA7BB9C00C64DF57113C4AE81613BD351541523CD3A028FBF220E
>         F7469BD4175302DCB5B6E886974877F28A2D301433AFFFE26081008BFF687B37
> 
> 
> Here is the correct value, from the signed message.
> 
> 08F4D5CBC10063725B206F787EB7370BBD0C5B4854CE79A97D1801AEAEE6E6D2
> C68D7EDF877FECE1FA539D08BEC54BD152BA05113951E8A84CDECAD2CB8E7AC2
> 8BE916570BA7BB9CC64DF57113C4AE81613BD351541523CD3A028FBF220EF746
> 9BD4175302DCB5B6E886974877F28A2D301433AFFFE260818BFF687B37DE8167

Hmm!  That explains this output of pgpacket which I had already
forwarded to Mark Shoulson as a bug in pgpacket:

% pgpacket < totopost.asc
---------------------------
Packet Type:    Secret-Key Encrypted Packet (signature)
Length: 149
Version:        3
Adding 5 bytes of header to digest
Signature of canonical text document
Signature Created:      9 Dec 1997  21:29:02
Signing Key ID: 0xCE56A4072541C535
Public Key Algorithm:   1 (RSA)
Message Digest Algorithm:       1 (MD5)
Check bytes:    0x5A82
128 bytes of data (1)
Data:   08F4D5CBC10063725B206F787EB7370BBD0C5B4854CE79A9007D1801AEAEE6E6D2C68D7E
DF877FECE1FA539D08BEC54BD152BA05113951E8A84CDECAD2CB8E7AC28BE916570BA7BB9C00C64D
F57113C4AE81613BD351541523CD3A028FBF220EF7469BD4175302DCB5B6E886974877F28A2D3014
33AFFFE26081008BFF687B37

---------------------------
Packet Type:    UNKNOWN PACKET!! (36)
Length: 129
(No handler known.  Skipping 1 bytes)
Data:   0x67

I couldn't figure out what the spurious packet was about, you just
solved that one... pgpacket is inserting spurious 00s in the message.
(I've Cc'ed Mark Shoulson).

Adam




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 18:15:23 +0800
To: ravage@einstein.ssz.com
Subject: respect due to anonymous (Re: CHALLENGE response (fwd))
In-Reply-To: <199809221539.KAA04070@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <199809221920.UAA11110@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate writes:
> Anonmous writes:
> > Subject: CHALLENGE response (fwd)
> 
> > The whole point of the CHALLENGE response went straight over his head,
> > didn't it? 
> 
> It didn't go over my head at all. What amazes me is that it took you this
> long to figure out that one could munge signatures.

Munge signatures!?  He generated an RSA key pair to match the
pre-published signature based on generating primes of special form
and/or using multiple smaller primes to construct an n which he could
perform discrete logs in (plus a dead beef attack), and all you can
say is the above.  You should take you hat off to anonymous.

> > No longer can you assume that just because you posted a signed message
> > on a certain date, and you hold the public key which signed that message,
> > that you can later prove authorship.  It challenges some of the implicit
> > assumptions which have been made in using public key cryptography.
> 
> No, it challenges basic assumptions regarding the importance of identity.
> In no way does it effect the basic math of crypto, public or otherwise.

It affects crypto: it means that one published signature is
not sufficient to provide a provable relationship between a signed
message and a public key.  You have to provide two signatures.

For example anonymous provide three signatures which check with that
key (one is self sig on the key).  Therefore it is not possible for
someone to do the same attack again against his published signatures:
they could match any one of the signatures, but no more.

It may even be that there exist crypto protocols affected by this.

Adam




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 13:22:23 +0800
To: cryptography@c2.net
Subject: Re: ArcotSign
Message-ID: <199809221821.UAA24448@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Greg Broiles writes:
> I'm certainly not a cryptographer, but I'm somewhat at a loss in trying to
> understand the purpose of using public-key (or asymmetric key)
> cryptography within a policy/technology system which won't allow the use
> of the strengths of asymmetric key crypto. As I understand the paper you
> reference above, to implement this system the public key must be kept
> confidential, and signed documents must also be kept confidential, or the
> system of the security as a whole is at risk. With those constraints, why
> bother with the overhead (computationally/technically/legally) of
> asymmetric key crypto at all? 

Based on http://www.arcot.com/camo2.html, the idea is to defend against
an attacker who manages to steal a copy of the secret key file, and who
then tries to guess the passphrase which protects it.  The file data
is encrypted in an unstructured generic manner so that all decryptions
look like random data, even the correct one.  This gives the attacker
no information about when he has guessed the correct passphrase.

For this to work, the public key has to be kept secret(!).  Otherwise the
right passphrase could be discovered by testing the decrypted private key
against the public key.  Arcot suggests that this would be appropriate
for an environment where only one or a few trusted servers need to
authenticate users.  These servers would be the only ones which have
copies of the public keys.  (It is not necessary that signed documents be
kept confidential, however a randomized signing algorithm must be used.)

As Greg points out, much the same could be accomplished simply by having
the servers share secret 3DES keys with their users, each user having his
own private 3DES key.  The users could encrypt messages using their 3DES
key and the server would decrypt using the appropriate key, which would
also serve to authenticate the user.

The Arcot people suggest that an advantage over this scheme is that
servers don't have to store information on all clients.  But much the same
thing could be done with symmetric cryptography.  In the Arcot system,
the client sends his public key certificate, encrypted to the server,
along with his request.  The server receives the cert and uses it to
verify/decrypt the message.  With symmetric cryptography, the client
could have the shared 3DES key encrypted using the server's public key,
and send that along with his message in a similar way.

The confusing thing about the Arcot system is this: how sensitive is the
public key?  Is it as sensitive as a shared secret key?  Superficially
not, since in order to exploit the public key you also have to steal the
private key file and then guess the passphrase.  But on the other hand,
if this is more than security through obscurity, you have to treat
it in many ways as equally sensitive.  Users of the Arcot system,
believing that they are safe because their public keys are secret,
may become casual about revealing their private key files and choosing
easy to guess passphrases.  They might even send the files around via
insecure channels.  With this kind of usage, the public key does become
just as sensitive as a shared secret key would be.

In that case, not only the servers, but all parts of the PKI must be
brought inside the trust boundary.  They are all holding material which,
if revealed, would compromise the security around which the system
is built.  You end up with trust relationships more similar to those in
a system like Kerberos than in a normal PKI.

> Is it really necessary/useful to call the scheme "software smart cards"?
> If it were called "An improved system for user authentication", I don't
> think it would make people nearly so suspicious. From my perspective, one
> of the advantages of smart card technology is that I can carry my
> authentication material with me; a system which puts it on my hard disk is
> less attractive. Floppies are portable, but not durable. 

The analogy with smart cards is that these cards protect your private key.
With a perfect smart card, an attacker can't do any better than chance
guessing of your private key.  With the Arcot system, the same is true.
Decrypting the private key file gives no information about its content,
because pure random data is encrypted.  Therefore with their system the
attacker also can't do better than chance guessing.

However this ignores the cost of the system, discarding many of the
advantages of public key cryptography.  You don't have to do that if you
use smart cards.

> I didn't understand the relationship between this scheme and Rivest's
> chaffing and winnowing which you note was cited as a reference in the SSC
> paper - would you (or someone else) mind explaining the connection?

Yes, this seems obscure.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Sunder 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 19:32:39 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: Stego-empty hard drives... (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199809221938.OAA06031@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <360840E8.7C1AC239@brainlink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate wrote:

> We're not discussin stego, we're discussing hidden disk partitions, not
> hiding data in the lsb of of existing observable disk partitions or
> something similar.

Steganography is the art of hiding data.  Hiding disk partions IMHO falls
under this.  Hiding data in the LSBits of bytes is only an EXAMPLE of stego, it
doesn't define stego.  Even the subject of this message says Stego Empty hard
drives conforming to this definition.
 
> > Who the fuck is gonna run a tempest scanner on your notebook again?  Let's
> 
> Considering the cost of such a scanner (a few $10k/ea.) and assuming such
> masking technology were to become commen place I doubt if very many
> customs checkpoints at major transfer hubs wouldn't have them.

Why would they implement it when they can simply have their software scan the
BIOS code if that's what they feared?  It may cost them $10k each, but it'll
cost them millions to design and scan every notebook type on the planet, and
then they'll have to get their hands on newer models as soon as they hit the
market.  You're talking about a project that's bigger in magnitude than the
NSA.
 
> > Why would you need to collect BIOSes?  You only need to modify a single BIOS -
> > the one on >YOUR< notebook.  The camouflage code would be a few hundred bytes
> > at most unless you do something overly elaborate.
> 
> I suspect it would be several k actualy since it is going to have to
> include the encryption code, device drivers, wedgers, etc.

Why should YOUR BIOS need to contain encryption code or device drivers for that
matter?  All it needs to do is to HIDE the existance of the extra partition. 
You modify every INT 13 functions to look for the track number being beyond a
certain value.  As rusty and as fucked as my x86 code is this shows the general
idea:

You patch your BIOS by replacing a few bytes of code with CALL's and NOP's. 
Maybe 4-8 bytes at most to modify.  The routine that checks for the track range
is only several bytes:


Somehwere in INT13 code:
            blah
            blah
            blah
            CALL biospatch
            NOP ; to fill in the overwritten code to the next opcode


biospatch  PUSH AX         ;save the register if you need it
           MOV AX,switch   ;get the value of the hack switch switch
           JE  popbye
           POP AX
           CMP AX,1234 ;or whatever register or whatever value
           JLE bye
deny       MOV AL,FAIL ;some reg and some value that says error, likely AL
           RET
           
popbye     POP AX
bye        ;insert the code that you overwrote with your CALL to this patch
re           
           RET


Homework: Someone please take this code, optimize it for size and build a TSR
patching INT 13 that JIM can install and run under DOS.

Whoop... that takes less than 25 bytes of code to implement for each of the INT
13 functions.  If you don't believe me, run debug and type in some similar
code.  All it needs to do is to check if the hack is in place, if so, check the
cylinder/track # being accessed.  If it's bigger than your limit, return an
error, otherwise allow it.  Where's the big fucking several K of code there?

A few more lines of code to implement the hidden switch code and you're set. 
Maybe modify the routine that checks for ESC to skip the memory check or DEL to
enter the setup, what another 25 byte patch?

Once you find out where the bios does it's checksum, you NOP that entire
section out, or recalculate the checksum yourself if you want to be anal. This
doesn't add any extra bytes.

Or if you're truly insanly paranoid, modify the bios password routine so that
if you type in a certain password it toggles the hacked mode on or off.  Maybe
a 100 byte patch at most.

> A disassembler isn't a a debugger. All a disassembler does is convert the
> hex to symbols (see frankenstein for an excellent design).

Semantics.  I can use debug to disassemble a ROM bios and trace through it.  It
does the fucking job.  Sure, it doesn't translate symbols or do anything fancy,
but it's enough to do what >THIS< project requires.
  
> > One thing all you fine folks are forgetting is that there are MANY types
> > of notebooks out there.
> 
> With only a few dozen BIOS'es driving the whole kit and kaboodle.

Yeah, and each of those hundreds of types of notebooks have their own MODIFIED
BIOSES with various patches and flash updates.  Good luck collecting a copy of
EVERY version of EVERY bios for EVERY brand of notebook made in various
countries with various languages, options, and other permutations.
 
> They're new, they will learn from their mistakes and it won't take long.
> After all, they have your tax dollars to use...

Yeah, yeah, yeah, next thing you'll tell me is that they'll start to stick
people in MRI machines to scan for drugs.  Sure, you can do whatever you like
if you've got infinite resources.  Show me someone who does.

Look if your threat model is some bloke in an airport with a shrink wrapped
floppy, even a shit solution will fool him.  If your threat model is ten orders
of magnitude more fascist, then they very likely won't even let you carry a
notebook.

-- 

=====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos==============
.+.^.+.|       Sunder       |Prying open my 3rd eye.  So good to see |./|\.
..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were      |/\|/\
<--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run  |\/|\/
../|\..| "A toast to Odin,  |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/.
.+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were....            |.....
======================= http://www.sundernet.com ==========================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 22:30:04 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: NSF grants to Internet at risk)
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 20:28:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: Declan McCullagh 
To: politech@vorlon.mit.edu
Subject: NSF grants to Internet at risk

[Seems to me that this dispute involves two perils: class action suits and
government funding of technology that can be easily paid for by the
private sector. I mean, it's not like the world's corporations hasn't
figured out the Internet is important. Besides, government funding often
means greater control. Early on in public broadcasting, the government
barred TV stations from editorializing. Currently government grants to
community radio stations don't go to ones with eclectic and thus probably
more interesting programming -- which need the cash the most. And remember
that Senate encryption bill that basically said government-funded networks
must use key escrow? Obviously the details of the suit and the fund are
important here, but the broader point is worth keeping in mind. --Declan]


---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 20:40:17 -0400
From: David Lytel 
To: Declan McCullagh 
Subject: Fwd: URGENT breaking news: Internet funding crisis

[personal note snipped. --dbm]

Internet Funding Crisis: A Call to Action for CyberCitizens

For more information call David Lytel of Sherpa Consulting Group at
1-315-473-8996 or 1-888-GUIDING 

Unknown to the rest of the world, Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott is
engaged in an effort to remove millions of dollars from the budget of the
National Science Foundation (NSF) that the Congress has previously made
available to invest in new Internet technologies.  Lott is trying to repeal
action earlier this year that ratified the Internet Intellectual
Infrastructure Fund as a congressionally authorized tax on the registration
of Internet domain names.  This was necessary because of a lawsuit brought
against Network Solutions, Inc., which has been acting as a domain
registration authority for the Internet under a cooperative agreement with
the NSF. 

In Thomas v. Network Solutions, Inc., 1998 WL 191205, US District Court
Judge Hogan ruled that the domain name registration fee was an unauthorized
tax.  Based on Congress's belated ratification of the fee (in the VA/HUD
Supplemental Appropriation bill earlier this year), Hogan ruled that it was
authorized.  This issue is being appealed to the United States Court of
Appeals for the DC Circuit.  Regardless of the outcome of the Lott
amendment, this means that the DC Circuit will consider the lawfulness of
the fund.  

Lott's maneuver is to add the repeal of the ratification to the Internet
Tax Freedom Act, which has passed the House and may reach the floor as
early as this week.  In the Senate, the Internet Tax Freedom Act has passed
both the Commerce and the Finance Committees without the change, but Lott
is circulating a draft managers amendment that would repeal the ratification.

What is at stake:

At stake is about $60 million that the NSF would no longer have available
to invest in research and development of high speed networks and
bandwidth-intensive applications.  If this is settled in the courts, about
$15 million would go to the attorney for the plaintiffs and most of the
rest would be lost to administrative fees as Network Solutions finds ways
to make rebates people who have registered domain names.  The payoff to
individual domain holders would be only a few dollars.  The NSF would lose
funds that are supposed to be available to aid universities as they upgrade
their connections from today's commodity Internet connections to tomorrow's
Internet 2 level connections.  For the commercial Internet, this means that
advanced research on different approaches relieve Internet congestion will
be slowed or stopped.  

The NSF funds experimental networks that address the fundamental problem of
traffic congestion on today's Internet.  The problem goes beyond the
limitations of access technologies such as today's modems or even access
technologies such as ISDN.  There are segments of what are supposed to be
the Internet's high speed corridors that are significantly blocked during
periods of peak use.  Part of the solution is building more and bigger
pipes to carry Internet traffic.  But it is also quite likely that demand
is growing quickly enough to fill much of this capacity.  The Internet
traffic problem is not unlike the automobile traffic problem in our major
cities in the 1960s, when no matter how many new bridges and highways we
built we never managed to get ourselves out of a traffic jam.


This is why a significant part of the Internet's original academic
pioneers are experimenting with new technologies to separate and prioritize
Internet traffic.  The Internet's underlying technologies are designed to
implement what is called a "best effort" level of service­meaning that if
packets cannot be delivered the Internet keeps trying to send them for
three days before giving up.  Just as HOV (high occupancy vehicle) lanes
have been part of the solution to the problem of highway traffic,
tomorrow's Internet will support quality-of-service or QoS distinctions so
that the bits containing an MRI moving between a primary care physician and
a specialist are given the priority they deserve over more playful uses of
the Internet.  While industry is addressing the problem of congestion in
various ways, it is often the university research community that produces
the innovative solutions that no one has yet thought of.

This ability to prioritize packets, in conjunction with the ability to
reserve bandwidth in advance rather than just hoping for the best, may be
the foundation of tomorrow's multimedia Internet.  With the right
underlying technologies, tomorrow's Internet will handle voice and video
services with greater ease than it handles email and Web pages today.  Some
of the next generation of Internet success stories will once again come
from the networking laboratories of university-based researchers. 

Who is behind this:

The driving force behind the lawsuit is Attorney William Bode in Washington
(202-862-4300) on behalf of a client called the American Internet
Registrants Association.  If Lott is successful the ratification will be
repealed and the lawsuit will be settled in favor of the plaintiffs.
Although it is not yet possible to link Bode to Senator Lott's actions, a
search of the Federal Election Commission's campaign contributors on the
Center for Responsive Politics site (www.crp.org) reveals Bode as an active
financial supporter of the Republican National Committee, former Senator
Bob Dole, and Senator Mitch McConnell (R-KY), who is chair of the
Republican Senatorial Campaign Committee.  

What CyberCitizens can do:

The most important members of the Senate to contact are Lott, Senator
William Roth (R-DE, chair of the Finance Committee) and Senator John McCain
(R-AZ) chair of the Senate Commerce Committee and the bill's Republican
floor manager).  It is also useful to contact the Democratic floor manager,
Senator Byron Dorgan (D-ND).  A staffer in the office of Senator Ron Wyden
(D-OR), who has sponsored the Internet Tax Freedom Act, says Wyden will not
make any effort to get the objectionable amendment removed, saying "we do
not have a dog in that fight."  Others worth contacting are Finance
Committee members Senator Al D'Amato and Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan
from New York, the state with the highest number of 4 year, Ph.D.-granting
institutions and the highest number of students at 4 year schools, who
would benefit from the NSF funding.  Their e-mail addresses:

Senator Trent Lott (R-MS)  senatorlott@lott.senate.gov or fax 202-224-2262
Senator William Roth (R-DE) comments@roth.senate.gov

Senator John McCain (R-AZ)  senator_mccain@mccain.senate.gov
Senator Byron Dorgan (D-ND) senator@dorgan.senate.gov
Senator Alphonse D'Amato (R-NY) senator_al@damato.senate.gov
Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan (D-NY) senator@dpm.senate.gov
Senator Ron Wyden (D-OR) senator@wyden.senate.gov

In addition, universities, Internet industry associations and companies
should consider supporting Network Solutions in its legal battle over the
lawfulness of the Internet Intellectual Infrastructure fund.  If any group
or individual is interested in filing an amicus brief in support of the
lawfulness of the registration fee, they should contact Mark Davies at
mdavies@mayerbrown.com for more details.

For more on the Internet domain name controversy see the Domain Name
Handbook at www.domainhandbook.com

Others who could be interviewed include:

Joel Widder, Deputy Director of the NSF's Office of Legislative and Public
Affairs at 703-306-1070 or jwidder@nsf.gov
Tony Rutkowski, formerly Executive Director of the Internet Society and now
head of the independent Center for the Next Generation Internet
(www.ngi.org) at 703-437-9236 or amr@ngi.org
Howard Sartori (202-917-2935), president of the American Internet
Registrant's Association (www.aira.org or 202-862-4363)
Gabe Battista 703-742-4842) president of Network Solutions, Inc.
(www.netsol.com or 703-742-0400)

**version 1.2
**end
 
new address: 	5 Brattle Road
				Syracuse, NY 13203-2803

				315-473-8996







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 22:39:52 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: US Easing Bank Rules on Big Cash Transactions
Message-ID: <199809230341.UAA07098@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: US Easing Bank Rules on Big Cash Transactions
Date: Mon, 05 May 1997 15:44:45 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  New York Times
http://www.nytimes.com/yr/mo/day/news/financial/cash-transactions-reuters.html

September 22, 1998

U.S. Is Easing Bank Rules on Big Cash Transactions 

By REUTERS

WASHINGTON -- The Treasury Department announced Monday
that it was trimming its requirements for reporting large cash
transactions. The measures had been introduced to try to curb money
laundering. 

Banks had criticized the requirements, the Treasury said, "because they
mandated repetitive paperwork" for routine transactions. The changes
will lighten the banks' paperwork load but will make bankers responsible
for acting as monitors and reporting anything to the authorities that they
think is out of the ordinary and that might indicate criminal activity. 

The new rules will permit banks to conduct most transactions with "cash
intensive businesses" without having to report to the Government under
the 1970 Bank Secrecy Act. But banks will still have to file reports on
transactions of $10,000 or more with individuals and with certain types
of businesses. 

"This rule does not exempt banks from reporting suspicious activity
involving those exempted activities," the Treasury said. "In addition,
certain categories of businesses, such as real estate brokers, automobile
dealers and money transmitters, may not be exempted." 

The reporting requirements were originally established to help law
enforcement officials combat money-laundering by drug dealers and
other criminals who pass large amounts through businesses and banks to
give an appearance of legality. 

The new rules, published today in The Federal Register, will permit a
bank to exempt a domestic business that routinely needs large amounts of
cash simply by filing a form stating that the business is exempt. The
business must have been a customer of the bank for at least a year. 

Banks, savings institutions and credit unions can begin using the new rules
on Oct. 21. 

The Treasury said businesses exempted from reporting rules by a bank
must have their exemptions reviewed every two years. But it said it was
dropping a requirement that banks include details about all of a
customer's transactions on the renewal form. 

In 1997, the Treasury said, more than 12 million currency transaction
reports were filed. It said that as a result of the latest rules changes, as
well as an earlier streamlining of reporting requirements for transactions
between banks, financial institutions should be able to reduce such filings
by about 30 percent. 

 Copyright 1998 The New York Times Company
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 22:40:55 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Key Goal for UN: Accelerating Fight Against Terrorism
Message-ID: <199809230341.UAA07112@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: Key Goal for UN: Accelerating Fight Against Terrorism
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 15:48:01 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  USIA
http://www.usia.gov/current/news/latest/98092101.plt.html?/products/washfile
/newsitem.shtml

21 September 1998 

KEY U.S. GOAL FOR UNGA: ACCELERATING FIGHT AGAINST
TERRORISM 

(Ambassador Burleigh cites U.S. priorities for 53rd UNGA) (1110)
By Judy Aita
USIA United Nations Correspondent

United Nations -- Emphasizing the Clinton administration's "full
measure of support" for the United Nations, the chief U.S. delegate to
the 53rd General Assembly said that U.S. priorities include furthering
international cooperation against weapons proliferation, terrorism,
and international crime.

Ambassador A. Peter Burleigh, head of the U.S. Mission to the United
Nations, said, "We face in the 53rd session of the General Assembly a
crucial agenda of work, in a year of crucial significance for the
United States and its relationship with the world body, and at a time
when it is more imperative than ever for nations of the world to face
united the threats to our common economic, political, social, and
environmental security."

"The UN provides political and economic options benefiting Americans
in the form of a safer, more prosperous world, and at a savings
through collective cost-sharing rather than unilateral burdensharing,"
he said at a press conference September 18.

"We are convinced that by remaining engaged in the UN we promote vital
American leadership, and reflect the depth of quiet support felt for
the UN among the American people," Burleigh said.

The General Assembly began September 9 overshadowed by crisis
situations around world: the nuclear tests conducted by India and
Pakistan in May, terrorist bombings at U.S. embassies in Kenya and
Tanzania, growing tension between Iran and Afghanistan, Iraq's refusal
to cooperate with UN weapons inspectors, and continued fighting in the
Democratic Republic of the Congo.

Citing the terrorist bombings in Nairobi and Tanzania and U.S. efforts
to bring to trial two Libyan suspects in the Pan Am bombing almost 10
years ago, Burleigh said "the U.S. and UN are engaged in a struggle
against international terrorism. Our weapon of choice is international
cooperation."

"Our policy is this: No deals with terrorists, bring terrorists to
justice, and pressure states that sponsor and harbor them," he said.

Burleigh noted that the United States remains committed to UN reform,
which has been a major U.S. concern for several years.

"Progress is occurring," the ambassador said. "The UN has cut its
budget and staff, established an inspector general's office, and
strengthened both peacekeeping and administrative operations. The
secretary general's reform initiatives, endorsed by the General
Assembly, are in large part the same as our own goals and will
substantially improve the efficiency and effectiveness of the UN
system."

Ironically, during the 53rd UNGA session, the United States could lose
its voting rights unless the U.S. Congress appropriates the funds
requested by the Clinton administration for UN dues.

According to Article 19 of the UN Charter, any UN member that owes two
years' annual dues loses its voting rights in the assembly. As of
August 31, 1998, the United States owed the United Nations more than
$1,600 million. Of that, $572 million is for the regular budget;
$1,041 million for peacekeeping; and $2.8 million for the
international tribunals. In January the U.S. 1999 assessment of $297.7
million will be due.

"Article 19 does not affect our participation in the Security Council
or other UN bodies and it does not alter our joint agenda for the
coming UNGA session," the ambassador said. The US delegation will
pursue a "vigorous, active agenda," he stressed.

"We were disappointed this year that the legislation passed by
Congress to enable the U.S. to pay its UN arrears included provisions
on international family planning that were totally unacceptable to the
(Clinton) administration," Burleigh said.

"The president has repeatedly voiced his determination that the U.S.
must start repaying its UN arrears," the ambassador said.

"I don't think Congress wants to see a situation where the U.S. loses
its vote," he added. "We hope before adjourning in October Congress
will appropriate the funds. The president and secretary of state are
actively lobbying to make that happen."

President Clinton will be one of more than 30 heads of state or
government who will be addressing the assembly during its traditional
two-week general debate, which begins on September 21.

Burleigh pointed to the president's recent speech on global economic
challenges to the Council on Foreign Relations as significant for
U.S.-UN work as well.

Clinton said that "at this moment of financial turmoil, we are called
upon once again to lead -- to organize the forces of a committed world
to channel unruly energy into positive channels that advance our
interest, reinforce our values, and enhance our security...Now it is
time for us to rise to our responsibility, as America has so many
times before, so that we can redeem the promise of the global economy,
and strengthen our nation for the 21st Century," Burleigh recalled.

"President Clinton's words call (upon) us too, at the start of the
UNGA, to redeem the full promise and potential of the United Nations
for the world," the ambassador said.

The assembly will deal with a wide variety of issues on its 165-item
agenda -- including human rights, arms control and disarmament, the
environment, refugees, drug trafficking, and population.

U.S. goals for the UNGA include:

-- recommitting the international community to human rights during the
celebration of the 50th anniversary of the Universal Declaration of
Human Rights;
-- convincing India and Pakistan to adhere to the Comprehensive Test
Ban Treaty and discouraging other potential nuclear weapons states
from conducting nuclear tests;
-- supporting the work of the Middle East peace negotiators to renew
momentum in the process and avoiding condemnatory resolutions of past
assemblies;
-- keeping the 1998 budget within the approved $2,533 million and
continuing more reforms; and
-- encouraging countries to meet reporting obligations under the UN
Register of Conventional Arms and the Wassenar Arrangement on
conventional and dual-use technology exports.

The Security Council also will take advantage of the large number of
top officials attending the debate to hold a ministerial-level meeting
on Africa September 24. This will continue its major initiative of
last year to focus attention on the African continent. This year the
council members, including Secretary of State Madeleine Albright, will
review Secretary General Kofi Annan's report on Africa entitled "The
Causes of Conflict and the Promotion of Durable Peace and Sustainable
Development in Africa" released in April.

In that report Annan stressed that the time is long past when the
responsibility for producing change in Africa can be shifted onto
others' shoulders. Both African nations and the international
community must "summon the political will" to end wars on the
continent, take good governance seriously, and invest in Africa's
resources, he said.
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 20:55:15 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Stego-empty hard drives... (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809230223.VAA07985@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 20:29:28 -0400
> From: Sunder 
> Subject: Re: Stego-empty hard drives... (fwd)

> Why would they implement it when they can simply have their software scan the
> BIOS code if that's what they feared?  It may cost them $10k each, but it'll
> cost them millions to design and scan every notebook type on the planet, and

No, again, they only have to scan the BIOS types and there are only a couple
thousand (if that many) of those. It really isn't that complicated, there are
only a few cpu's, there are only a few glue chip sets, only a few video driver
chip sets, only a few LCD panels, etc. Admitted when multiplied together
there are a lot of combinations. Now the board manufacturers, the BIOS
manufacturers, and the various glue chipset makers get together and share
data and the manufacturers look to their marketing to define their target
point. Then they do a cost analysis on the chipset combo's and pretty soon 
you find the market only handles a handful of fundamentaly different
machines.

If there was as much variety at the hardware level as you assume nobody
could afford to introduce new computers every few months.

> then they'll have to get their hands on newer models as soon as they hit the
> market.  You're talking about a project that's bigger in magnitude than the
> NSA.

No it isn't. All it takes to get the BIOS before it hits the market is get a
license agreement with the BIOS manufacturer. Hell, when I worked at
Compu-Add we did this sort of stuff with Award and Phoenix all the time. We
would get alpha copies to test in our new hardware on a regular basis.

> Why should YOUR BIOS need to contain encryption code or device drivers for that
> matter?  All it needs to do is to HIDE the existance of the extra partition. 

And the code in the BIOS which means it needs to be hidden just like some 
viruses.

Realisticaly it isn't this complicated. All one needs to do is write a
program that allows the operator to talk directly to the hard drive
controller. At that point it's a trivial matter to go out and find those
hidden partitions. You could use normal drive recovery software if you had a
mind, and that only costs a few hundred to a few thousand dollars and can be
bought in the back of Computer Shopper.

> You patch your BIOS by replacing a few bytes of code with CALL's and NOP's. 
> Maybe 4-8 bytes at most to modify.  The routine that checks for the track range
> is only several bytes:
> 
> 
> Somehwere in INT13 code:
>             blah
>             blah
>             blah
>             CALL biospatch
>             NOP ; to fill in the overwritten code to the next opcode
> 
> 
> biospatch  PUSH AX         ;save the register if you need it
>            MOV AX,switch   ;get the value of the hack switch switch
>            JE  popbye
>            POP AX
>            CMP AX,1234 ;or whatever register or whatever value
>            JLE bye
> deny       MOV AL,FAIL ;some reg and some value that says error, likely AL
>            RET
>            
> popbye     POP AX
> bye        ;insert the code that you overwrote with your CALL to this patch
> re           
>            RET
> 
> 
> Homework: Someone please take this code, optimize it for size and build a TSR
> patching INT 13 that JIM can install and run under DOS.

Don't bother, I already know how to do that.

This would stand out like a sore thumb.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Lucky Green 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 14:35:45 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: ArcotSign
In-Reply-To: <199809221821.UAA24448@replay.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Tue, 22 Sep 1998, Anonymous wrote:
[On Arcot's virtual smartcard claims] 
> The analogy with smart cards is that these cards protect your private key.
> With a perfect smart card, an attacker can't do any better than chance
> guessing of your private key.  With the Arcot system, the same is true.
> Decrypting the private key file gives no information about its content,
> because pure random data is encrypted.  Therefore with their system the
> attacker also can't do better than chance guessing.

With Arcot's system, an attacker could determine the key *software only,
most likely even by remote*.

Extracting keys from a smartcard requires *hardware and physical possesion
of the token*.

Which touches at the very core of the difference between
tokens and software based solutions. The claims made on the vendor's
homepage are simply false. There is no other way of putting it.

-- Lucky Green  PGP v5 encrypted email preferred.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: pjm@spe.com
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 16:01:14 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: atheism (was: RE: Democracy... (fwd)) (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199809202202.RAA14798@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <4932-Tue22Sep1998220112+0200-pjm@spe.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate writes:
[ A bunch of gratuitously obnoxious nonsense indicating a lack of
  reading comprehension skills coupled with no capacity for critical
  thinking. ]

     That makes two rude replies in a row in response to polite
messages.  I'll give anyone the benefit of one bad hair day, but
further discussion with you is obviously a waste of time.  I do thank
you for demonstrating that "transcendence" is not a null concept,
however.  You are without a doubt a transcendent asshole.

     I retire from this discussion and yield the floor to you,
Mr. Choate.  It is only fitting, seeing as you've gone to such trouble
to deposit that large pile of fecal matter in the middle of it.

Regards,

pjm




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 00:11:47 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: new sci am articles on encryption
Message-ID: <199809230513.WAA16966@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



the new issue of scientific american features
articles on encryption and hacking. one is
by Phil Zimmermann, on public key cryptography.

A policy article by Rivest (of RSA) argues
against encryption restrictions in the US.

a long article on internet hacking and breaking
and entering describes the basic process
that hackers use.

Rivest uses the analogy of "gloves" for
encryption, in the sense that we shouldn't
outlaw gloves because the govt needs always
to obtain fingerprints for identification.
furthermore, "key escrow" is like gluing
fingerprint copies to the bottoms of gloves,
another waste of time.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: phelix@vallnet.com
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 17:15:09 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Stego-empty hard drives... (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199809221500.KAA03503@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <36122097.335221357@news>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On 22 Sep 1998 15:19:09 -0500, Sunder  wrote:

>You could always compress the fuck out of the data and save it as 2d bar codes
>(PDF417) in a printed book, or to photographic slides...

Yea.  And when customs asks, just say that they're 2d stereograms (the kind
where neat stuff appears if you stare at them crosseyed long enough).  

-- Phelix




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: pjm@spe.com
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 15:59:26 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: atheism (was: RE: Democracy... (fwd)) (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199809202202.RAA14798@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <6442-Tue22Sep1998222346+0200-pjm@spe.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



attila writes:
 >     agreed, the strong v. weak atheist argument is _impossible_. 

     I'll try one last time and then let this grossly off-topic thread
continue without me.

     The weak atheist position is a _lack_ of belief.  No knowledge
claim is made.  This position can come from a number of perspectives,
one common one being that the concept denoted by the word "god" is
incoherent.  If a concept is without meaning then it doesn't make
sense to claim to believe that it doesn't exist; such a claim would
itself be incoherent.

     The strong atheist position that god(s) do not exist does
constitute a knowledge claim.  It implies that the holder of the
position associates a particular, meaningful concept with the word
"god".  It doesn't, however, indicate anything about the other beliefs
of the atheist in question.

     There must be some 'net law regarding the effort required to make
a point being inversely proportional to the complexity and importance
of that point....

Regards,

pjm




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 01:33:45 +0800
To: attila 
Subject: Re: This is a listed crime?
In-Reply-To: <199809211700.MAA17197@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980922231122.00907100@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 05:50 PM 9/21/98 +0000, attila wrote:
>    "I dont know nuthin' 'bout it" 

Double negatives are your friend :-)

>    agreed, in theory. but how do you protect yourself when two or more
>    take the stand and swear under oath that you said: "......" or, even:

Yeah.  The times I've known the facts in cop-vs-citizen cases,
the cops have often been lying; I have to assume that they're often lying
in cases when I don't know the facts as well.  Of course, getting
somebody with that kind of attitude about cops onto a jury 
is somewhat unlikely, but occasionally you'll find neutrals.
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 01:23:44 +0800
To: Duncan Frissell 
Subject: Re: This is a listed crime?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980922231717.0090ba10@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 02:39 PM 9/21/98 -0400, Duncan Frissell wrote:
>False.  You are never required to talk to a peace officer, Fed, or
>investigator unless you want to.  They can arrest you of course (with
>probable cause ha ha).  Even then, you still don't have to talk to them.
>In criminal cases you *never* have to talk to anyone.

The Supremes have, unfortunately, decided that police can hold you
for up to 48 hours without getting around to charging you,
and if there's a weekend around they can often stretch that.
Some cops find that an interesting answer to the question
"You've read me my Miranda rights and now you're insisting
that I tell you what you want before I can speak to my lawyer who's
in the next room?" "Yup, you can be as silent as you want in the
county jail, and [since we're charging you with a bogus municipal charge anyway],
we can charge you with a [bogus] misdemeanor instead.",
which had a certain craftiness I hadn't really expected out of them :-)


				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 01:31:26 +0800
To: Michael Motyka 
Subject: Re: Stego-empty hard drives...
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980922232331.0090ed40@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 12:06 PM 9/21/98 -0700, Michael Motyka wrote:
>Robert Hettinga wrote:
>> Stegoing an encrypted partition as "blank" hard drive space without
>> actually writing over it unless you wanted to?
>> 
>A freshly formatted partition has a fill value. Noise would indicate
>that is is not fresh. This would not be proof that it contained
>encrypted data but it would indicate some sort of use. 

Microsoft Mail and some of its broken successors keep your mail in
one big hulking file using "compressible encryption",
which may not be good enough to keep the NSA out,
but is good enough crypto to keep you from fixing it when
it gets corrupted.  
It's really a shame how often MSMail files get corrupted,
and how quickly the things can grow to 100-200MB if people from
Marketing keep sending you mail with attached Powerpoint files.
Does anybody know a compressed disk driver that lets you start
at an arbitrary offset in a file so the headers look fine?

				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: strawman@ehmail.com
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 22:34:53 +0800
To: joe cypherpunk 
Subject: Does God know Peano Algebra?
Message-ID: <199809230329.XAA11796@web05.iname.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



or does she not care if strong atheists couldnt reason their way out of a trap made of Boolean presumptions?

a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing, but zero knowlege is absolutely subversive...

---------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Get free personalized email from Canada.com at http://www.ehmail.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 23:07:13 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Speaking of political consims - Land of the Free (fwd) [fun]
Message-ID: <199809230435.XAA08530@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:
>From consim-l-return-15556-ravage=ssz.com@net.uni-c.dk Tue Sep 22 23:33:14 1998
Mailing-List: contact consim-l-help@net.uni-c.dk; run by ezmlm
Reply-To: consim-l@net.uni-c.dk
Delivered-To: mailing list consim-l@net.uni-c.dk
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 04:04:54 +0000 (GMT)
From: Tracy Johnson 
To: consim-l@net.uni-c.dk
Subject: Re: Speaking of political consims - Land of the Free
In-Reply-To: <85037379.36082228@aol.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Actually Justin Thyme has been doing these games for years with our
player teams at conventions, but without computers.

On Tue, 22 Sep 1998 BillR54619@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 9/22/98 5:18:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> olboggy@hotmail.com writes:
> 
> Hasbeen Interactive announces its new, Java-enabled, interactive WWW gaming
> experience, BILLOMACY. "Billomacy" extends the concepts pioneered in the
> classic TAHGC game, DIPLOMACY, placing you in a virtual social computing world
> full of sovereign, petty, and touchy players. How many of them can YOU piss
> off, and still stay in the game ? For the goal of BILLOMACY is not to win, but
> to keep the game going for as long as you can. Chat and email functions allow
> you to communicate with the other players almost instantaneously, to plot your
> vast right wing conspiracies, or to indulge in hurling anathemas in the form
> of press releases. The possibilities are endless !! Each game lasts as long as
> you want to keep playing, from just one evening, or until kingdom come.
> BILLOMACY supports an infinite number of strategies and playing styles, from
> the passive-aggressive "Kaiser Wilhelm" mode to the sneaky, unprincipled,
> "Guilliame Talleyrand" mode, not to mention the famous "Wild Bill" cowboy
> mode, and of course, the ultimate in popularity, "Bill Clinton, Secret Agent
> Man", which allows you to enter our special "adults only" area for phone sex
> and other goodies. And for the spiritually inclined, we have included the high
> toned "Billy Graham" sermonizing option, for a low extra price. BILLOMACY, the
> favorite interactive game of (who else) Bill Gates, is an experience we think
> you'll really like !!
> 
> ---
> 
> Bill R.

Tracy Johnson
tmj@primenet.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 18:15:31 +0800
To: nobody@replay.com
Subject: Re: CHALLENGE response
In-Reply-To: <199809220601.IAA30078@replay.com>
Message-ID: <199809222241.XAA11854@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Kudos anonymous!

What form are your primes (did you use Maurers idea to increase the
relative hardness of factoring compared to discrete log, or did you
just use more smaller primes?)  How many primes have you used, and how
many CPU hours did it take to calculate the discrete log to discover e?

Also is the code for finding discrete logs given the prime
factorisation of the modulus available?

Obvious counter-measures to this attack on a persistent anonymous
identity are to post more than one signature, or to sign the public
key (as would happen with a self signed PGP public key).

I am left wondering if there are implications of this demonstration
for other protocols (*) involving RSA signatures, where one signed
message is observed before the key is obtained.

- For example, the general case of receiving a message signed by
someone, not having the public key, and looking up the public key on a
key server by keyid (as pgp5.x, and some pgp2.x mail interfaces
automate).  With an anonymous individual (and with many peoples keys
where they have poor connection in the web of trust) all you are
aiming to do is to send a message to the author of a given message.
With this attack an attacker who could intercept the key server
lookup, and return an alternate public key with associated
certificates which would match the signature.
Are there other protocols where this attack would have implications?

Adam

(* Toto's impromptu 'protocol' was publishing one signature only, and
then having his machine seized containing the public (and private?)
keys which arguably created the signature).  The result of the
identity attack is that Toto's (currently unwanted) proof of
authorship has been called into question.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Jablon 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 22:50:41 +0800
To: Ben Laurie 
Subject: Re: ArcotSign (was Re: Does security depend on hardware?)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980922235214.00804100@world.std.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Bruce Schneier wrote:
>> The advantages are that offline password guessing is impossible.

At 03:24 PM 9/22/98 +0100, Ben Laurie wrote:
> The 'I' word always makes me nervous - do you really mean that, or do
> you just mean "very difficult"?

Why be nervous?  It's not that hard to prevent off-line
guessing of the PIN, given access to just the client's stored
data.  Here "impossible" means "as hard as breaking your
favorite PK method".

Here are three ways of authenticating based on PIN + stored key
where the stored client data alone doesn't permit offline PIN
guessing.  These methods are arguably better than using a
simplistic PIN-encrypted private key, if you're concerned
about the client spilling its data.

(1)	Send the PIN separately, encrypted by the server's public key.
	Don't encrypt the private key with the PIN.  Make the server
	verify both PIN and private key to permit a transaction.

(2)	Use the PIN + stored data to derive the private key,
	in a way such that any PIN will also generate a valid
	private key.

(3)	Verify the PIN (or PIN-derived key) using
	password-authenticated key exchange.

Each of these approaches has other benefits and limitations.
>From the posted description, it sounds like Arcot is using (2),
where the PIN-encrypted data contains no verifiable plaintext.

-------------------------
David P. Jablon
dpj@world.std.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 23:30:29 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Forwarded mail...
Message-ID: <199809230453.XAA08741@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 06:15:33 +0200
> From: Anonymous 

> It is only rarely we get the sons of bitches on
> tape, and then you'll have to pardon us for 
> exploiting it.

Take what you can get and run like hell with it!

> The only regret is that Frank Zappa was not alive
> to put it all to music.

I hadn't even thought of the potential for yellow snow rides...


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Reeza! 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 09:00:09 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980923000131.007d6910@205.83.192.13>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 07:45 AM 9/22/98 -0500, Jim Choate wrote:
>Forwarded message:
>> From: "Neels Kriek" 
>> Subject: Re: Stego-empty hard drives... (fwd)
>> Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 01:52:03 -0500
>> I have bee using Encrypted magic Folders for a while now.  it gives you the
>> option of encrypting all files in a specific folder. it can also do file
>> name scrambling and even hide all the files in a directory from the OS.
>> 
>> It activates through a hot key combination.  You work on the files you want
>> and when you exit emf the whole dir is hidden again.  probably not the most
>> secure system but it will certainly fool most them if you disable booting
>> from a stiffy/floppy.
>
>The problem is this approach is detectible with a suitable 'virus scanner'
>technology. Even if the encrypted folders and such don't appear in the file
>system you have various other pieces of the processing agent that must sit
>around on the drive and hence are open to signature attacks.
>

The first assertion is not entirely accurate- I played with Magic Folders
for a while- it relies on a command, usu. in the autoexec.bat or win.ini
file (dos/windows environment) to load, with a bootable floppy disk these
commands would would be bypassed and the so-called "hidden" folder is in
plain sight. 

Reeza!

"...The world was on fire, but no one could save me but you...
	Strange what desire will make foolish people do...
		(and the background vocalists sang)
			This world is only gonna break your heart...."

					==C.I.==




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 02:04:55 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Jury duty considered harmful, or at least rare
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 11:11 PM -0700 9/22/98, Bill Stewart wrote:

>Yeah.  The times I've known the facts in cop-vs-citizen cases,
>the cops have often been lying; I have to assume that they're often lying
>in cases when I don't know the facts as well.  Of course, getting
>somebody with that kind of attitude about cops onto a jury
>is somewhat unlikely, but occasionally you'll find neutrals.

I last served on a jury in 1973, 25 years ago, no doubt before many readers
of Cypherpunks were born.

And I've only received a single _possible_ summons since, in the 25 years
since that  one jury appearance.

Yet some of the apolitical numbskulls I know about have served on several
juries in the same time. The Poisson, as expected, or something more human?

Jury nullifying minds want to know.

--Tim May

(This space left blank pending determ. of acceptability to the gov't.)
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 02:11:14 +0800
To: "Kriston J. Rehberg" 
Subject: Re: ArcotSign (was Re: Does security depend on hardware?)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 11:38 PM -0700 9/22/98, Kriston J. Rehberg wrote:
>Would it be terribly difficult to remove the "coderpunks" list from the
>"To:" list on this thread?
>
>Thanks,


Kris,

Why are you spamming the Cypherpunks list with your drivel?


--Tim May

(This space left blank pending determ. of acceptability to the gov't.)
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 11:14:54 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Clinton's fake apologies (fwd)
Message-ID: <604c1f67fef5147bd9135cda03e0d7da@anonymous>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




on 20 Sep 1998 at 09:52:24 Reeza! wrote:
> 
> At 09:21 PM 9/19/98 -0000, Anonymous wrote:
> >
> >What? To tell a lie is one thing, but ...[etc]

> It was prefaced with "...to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
> but the truth...".
> Straighten out your head, you seem to be a few neurons short of a
> functional synapse.
> 
> Reeza!

I understand you think this is persuasive, but I don't understand why.

and then at Sun, 20 Sep 1998 15:26:05 Reeza! wrote:
> At 03:24 AM 9/20/98 -0000, Anonymous wrote:
> >
> >I agree it's bad. I agree it undermines the justice system a little bit.
> >But, ... impeachment?
> >
> 
> I could care less if he had an affair, personally. But he had an affair
> with a subordinate in his direct employ.
[more]

> I congratulate you for your defense of a person who demonstrably has broken
> his marriage vows, his oath of public office, and purjured himself while
> under an additional oath in a court of law.

You do remember from 6 hours earlier that we're talking about lieing?  
Your raising other issues is irrelevant. You're building up the bogey man.
[Jim Choate recently described this method as a "Strawman".] 
I suggested there are things Bill's done that are worse. Are you sure you're
disagreeing?

Do you have anything worthwhile to bring to the discussion?

> You, too, are a few neurons short of a functional synapse.
> 
> I suggest you discuss it with the maker. The best way is large caliber
> bullet at sufficient velocity to penetrate and exit the cranial cavity.
> 
> God speed, you fucking idiot.
> 

I guess not.

> Reeza!

-- an anonymous aol32 user.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: harvest1@altavista.net
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 02:54:40 +0800
Subject: churches
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Chruches, Pastors and Ministers:

To those of you that are searching.  I would like to invite you to view my web page.  You just may 
find something in there that may help you in your search.  

www2.sosinet.net/~harvest1/communion.htm 

Since, this message is a one time post only.  It is not necessary to respond.

Prophet Leamon.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Kriston J. Rehberg" 
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 01:37:38 +0800
Subject: Re: ArcotSign (was Re: Does security depend on hardware?)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <36089776.5641344B@ibm.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Would it be terribly difficult to remove the "coderpunks" list from the
"To:" list on this thread?

Thanks,

Kris

-- 
Kriston J. Rehberg
http://kriston.net/
AOL: Kriston                    endeavor to persevere
ICQ: 3535970




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 19:58:34 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: CHALLENGE response
Message-ID: <199809230100.DAA27355@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> What form are your primes (did you use Maurers idea to increase the
> relative hardness of factoring compared to discrete log, or did you
> just use more smaller primes?)  How many primes have you used, and how
> many CPU hours did it take to calculate the discrete log to discover e?

N is the product of two primes, but each p-1 has about 16 small prime factors
(about 25-35 bits) to allow calculating the discrete log efficiently.  With
this choice of primes it took about three hours to run the discrete log.

> Also is the code for finding discrete logs given the prime
> factorisation of the modulus available?

Here you go.  This uses cryptolib by Jack Lacy of AT&T (not to be
confused with cryptlib by Peter Gutmann), available from
ftp://ftp.funet.fi/pub/crypt/cryptography/libs/cryptolib_1.1.tar.gz


/* Calculate discrete log using various algorithms */
/* Algorithms based on Handbook of Applied Cryptography by Menezes et al */

#include "libcrypt.h"


/* Modular multiplication - m1*m2 mod n */
static void
bigMultiplyN (BigInt m1, BigInt m2, BigInt n, BigInt result)
{
    BigInt tmp = bigInit(0);
    bigMultiply (m1, m2, tmp);
    bigMod (tmp, n, result);
    freeBignum (tmp);
}


/* Modular addition, m1+m2 mod n */
static void
bigAddN (BigInt m1, BigInt m2, BigInt n, BigInt result)
{
    bigAdd (m1, m2, result);
    if (bigCompare (result, n) >= 0)
        bigSubtract (result, n, result);
}


/* Iterate the pollard rho.  Modify x, a, b with next values */
static void
prhoiter (BigInt base, BigInt val, BigInt mod, BigInt order,
    BigInt *x, BigInt *a, BigInt *b)
{
    int xgroup;

    /* First decide what group x is in */
    /* This is a cheat to be fast */
    xgroup = ((unsigned)(*x)->num[0]+1) % 3;

    switch (xgroup) {
    case 0:
        bigMultiplyN (*x, val, mod, *x);
        bigAddN (*b, one, order, *b);
        break;
    case 1:
        bigMultiplyN (*x, *x, mod, *x);
        bigAddN (*a, *a, order, *a);
        bigAddN (*b, *b, order, *b);
        break;
    case 2:
        bigMultiplyN (*x, base, mod, *x);
        bigAddN (*a, one, order, *a);
        break;
    }
}


/* Pollard rho algorithm for discrete log */

BigInt
pollardrho (BigInt base, BigInt val, BigInt mod, BigInt order)
{
    BigInt
        x = bigInit(1),
        a = bigInit(0),
        b = bigInit(0),
        x2 = bigInit(1),
        a2 = bigInit(0),
        b2 = bigInit(0);
    int cnt = 0;

    for ( ; ; ) {
        prhoiter (base, val, mod, order, &x, &a, &b);
        prhoiter (base, val, mod, order, &x2, &a2, &b2);
        prhoiter (base, val, mod, order, &x2, &a2, &b2);
        if (bigCompare (x, x2) == 0)
            break;
        if (++cnt % 1000 == 0) {
            printf ("%d\r", cnt);
            fflush (stdout);
        }
    }
    if (cnt >= 1000)
        printf ("\n");

    if (bigCompare (b, b2) < 0)
        bigAdd (order, b, b);
    bigSubtract (b, b2, b);
    if (bigCompare (a2, a) < 0)
        bigAdd (order, a2, a2);
    bigSubtract (a2, a, a);
        
    if (bigCompare (b, zero) == 0) {
        printf ("Pollard rho failed\n");
        exit (1);
    }
    getInverse (b, order, b2);
    bigMultiplyN (a, b2, order, a);
    return a;
}


/*
 * Do the CRT with multiple congruences.  congs are the values that the
 * answer should be congruent to, mods are the moduli for each congruence.
 * n tells how many in each array.
 */
static BigInt
crtmult (BigInt congs[], BigInt mods[], int n)
{
    int i;
    BigInt prod = bigInit(0);
    BigInt prod1 = bigInit(0);
    BigInt sum = bigInit(0);
    BigInt quot = bigInit(0);
    BigInt rem = bigInit(0);
    BigInt dum = bigInit(0);
    BigInt inv = bigInit(0);
    BigInt term = bigInit(0);

    /* Compute product of moduli */
    bigCopy (one, prod);
    for (i=0; i
Message-ID: <19980922174008.17487.qmail@iq.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> >the legitimate user has, excepting the 'remembered secret'. Or is
> >there anything wrong with my logic?
> 
> Yes.  There is something wrong with you logic.
> 
> Bruce
> **********************************************************************
> Bruce Schneier, President, Counterpane Systems     Phone: 612-823-1098

There's something wrong with you grammer.

Cheers,
Julian.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Reeza! 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 13:00:33 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980923040020.0080d6d0@205.83.192.13>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 10:04 AM 9/22/98 -0500, Jim Choate wrote:
>>Reeza! wrote:
>> The first assertion is not entirely accurate-
>
>Which first assertion, his or mine? Youre quoting leaves me confused (not
>that it is necessarily your fault...;).

His.

>
>> I played with Magic Folders
>> for a while- it relies on a command, usu. in the autoexec.bat or win.ini
>> file (dos/windows environment) to load, with a bootable floppy disk these
>> commands would would be bypassed and the so-called "hidden" folder is in
>> plain sight. 
>
>One thing is clear, you can't mundge the base OS or else the catch is going
>to be trivial.
>

Ain't it the truth. :b

Reeza!

"...The world was on fire, but no one could save me but you...
	Strange what desire will make foolish people do...
		(and the background vocalists sang)
			This world is only gonna break your heart...."

					==C.I.==




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 21:13:37 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: SLICK WILLIE'S SHITHOUSE SPECIAL!!!
Message-ID: <199809230206.EAA32637@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



SLICK WILLIE'S SHITHOUSE SPECIAL!!!
	-----------------------------------

  For a limited time, Slick Willie is offering you a chance to 
  provide your future children with a Conception-to-Grave life
  experience.
  For a campaign contribution of $1 million, you can conceive
  your child in the Lincoln bedroom and guarantee their burial
  at the Arlington National Cemetery.
  For an addition half-million dollar donation, Slick Willie is
  offering coupons your future children can use to live off of
  Federal Farm Subsidies or Welfare, depending on their preference
  for city-living or the country life. 

  ACT NOW! First hundred contributors will be entered in a drawing
  to be held for a pair of Paula Jones' panties! (A signed and
  numbered piece  from Slick Willie's personal
  collection.)






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Reeza! 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 13:08:32 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980923040813.007bf100@205.83.192.13>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 10:48 AM 9/22/98 -0500, Jim Choate wrote:
>Forwarded message:
>
>> Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 09:32:49 -0500
>> From: Petro 
>> Subject: Re: Stego-empty hard drives... (fwd)
>
>> 	Why prompt, you installed it, just have the startup stop at a
>> certain point, just simply pause. You hit a couple keys (4-8) and go on.
>> Given this case you don't really need the security of a long passphrase
>> since if they are looking to get in, you've lost already.
>
>You'll probably not want it to stop, simpy wait a few seconds. Also, if
>the passphrase is incorrect you'll not want to issue any error messages.
>
>Stopping the boot may be a good indication of a problem.
>

So offer the disclaimer that it is f*cked up and will be going straight to
the repair shop when you (the traveler) get back to "home". Who are they to
know the difference?

Reeza!





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Reeza! 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 13:28:39 +0800
To: Anonymous 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980923042746.007bf140@205.83.192.13>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 01:15 AM 9/23/98 +0900, Anonymous wrote:
>on 20 Sep 1998 at 09:52:24 Reeza! wrote:
>> At 09:21 PM 9/19/98 -0000, Anonymous wrote:
>> >What? To tell a lie is one thing, but ...[etc]
>
>> It was prefaced with "...to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
>> but the truth...".
>> Straighten out your head, you seem to be a few neurons short of a
>> functional synapse.
>> 
>> Reeza!
>
>I understand you think this is persuasive, but I don't understand why.
>
>and then at Sun, 20 Sep 1998 15:26:05 Reeza! wrote:
>> At 03:24 AM 9/20/98 -0000, Anonymous wrote:
>> >
>> >I agree it's bad. I agree it undermines the justice system a little bit.
>> >But, ... impeachment?
>> >
>> 
>> I could care less if he had an affair, personally. But he had an affair
>> with a subordinate in his direct employ.
>[more]
>
>> I congratulate you for your defense of a person who demonstrably has broken
>> his marriage vows, his oath of public office, and purjured himself while
>> under an additional oath in a court of law.
>
>You do remember from 6 hours earlier that we're talking about lieing?  
>Your raising other issues is irrelevant. You're building up the bogey man.
>[Jim Choate recently described this method as a "Strawman".] 
>I suggested there are things Bill's done that are worse. Are you sure you're
>disagreeing?
>
>Do you have anything worthwhile to bring to the discussion?
>
>> You, too, are a few neurons short of a functional synapse.
>> 
>> I suggest you discuss it with the maker. The best way is large caliber
>> bullet at sufficient velocity to penetrate and exit the cranial cavity.
>> 
>> God speed, you fucking idiot.
>> 
>
>I guess not.
>
>> Reeza!
>
>-- an anonymous aol32 user.
>


Well, it seems I have an admirer. A follower, anyway. Quoting things I said
from two separate posts.
Persuasive, no. Revealing, yes.
I believe the other issues are relevant. When a person micro-focuses on one
instance of one issue, it is easily dismissable. That oversight, that
disregard of clear evidence of malfeasance in many, and every area should
not be ignored just because you think the issue should be simply (and only)
one particular instance of, shall we say, hormone driven behaviour, to put
it mildly.
I'm not building up the bogey man, I'm discussing what I see. What I see,
on every major and minor newstation, is a disgrace. A documented, public
record disgrace.

anonymouse, 32 bit aohell to boot. you must feel very safe. Yours is hardly
the type of post that might necessitate the use of a remailer, so it should
be safe to assume you haven't the courage to stand behind your words, even
as mild as they are.

Fuck you too. I suggest you discuss your lack of a spine with the maker.
See the above for instructions to meet the maker.

Reeza!

"...The world was on fire, but no one could save me but you...
	Strange what desire will make foolish people do...
		(and the background vocalists sang)
			This world is only gonna break your heart...."

					==C.I.==




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Reeza! 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 13:30:25 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Clinton's fake apologies (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199809221610.SAA07027@rogue.seclab.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980923043148.00811450@205.83.192.13>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




>
>Understandable sentiments. The position I can't understand is Jim's,
>of being totally outraged by the lieing under oath regardless of anything
else.
>[although I respect his right to that opinion].
>
>Unfortunately, you now wear the mantle of wanting to put away
>Bill "Al Capone" Klinton not for tax evasion, but for "fibbing".
>
>-- an anonymous aol32 user.
>
>

You must be proud of that sig.
I'll bet you weren't on the list when the list of deceased CIC bodyguards,
friends and associates was posted either.

flush out your head, you aol user. there is more going on here than just
'fibbing'.


Reeza!


"...The world was on fire, but no one could save me but you...
	Strange what desire will make foolish people do...
		(and the background vocalists sang)
			This world is only gonna break your heart...."

					==C.I.==




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 23:23:18 +0800
To: 
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199809230415.GAA08863@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 09:00 PM 9/21/98 -0700, Kurt Buff wrote:

>I (as a militant atheist) merely say that if you can define your God, I can
>probably prove he doesn't exist. Unless, of course, your definition is so
>broad as to have no meaning in the first place.

As a thinker I find the term atheism dignifies the 
concept of theism, so I find it offensive.  Theists
are primitives and one needn't stoop.

In my religion, saying unprovable things in public
is a stonable offense.

Joe Momma








  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 23:20:35 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199809230415.GAA08895@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



To all: 
We don't care so much that WJC did it with Buddy,
or whatever, so much that he lied under oath.

It is only rarely we get the sons of bitches on
tape, and then you'll have to pardon us for 
exploiting it.

What the fuck, the TLAs leveraged their POTUS bugs for
years...

The only regret is that Frank Zappa was not alive
to put it all to music.

Oottoott



Count of Monte Carlo








  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 23:20:31 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199809230415.GAA08933@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 07:10 PM 9/21/98 -0500, Jim Choate wrote:
>It is further clear the police don't carry them for their own protection
>either. Wonder why they do carry them?...

The fastest practical way to disable a metazoan is
to puncture the circulatory system supplying
their brain.

Any questions?

"Go for the head shot" 
	-a former employee of the President








  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bruce Schneier 
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 07:08:47 +0800
To: Mok-Kong Shen 
Subject: Re: ArcotSign (was Re: Does security depend on hardware?)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <4.0.2.19980923070056.0096b380@mail.visi.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 07:10 PM 9/22/98 +0100, Mok-Kong Shen wrote:
>Bruce Schneier wrote:
>> 
>> Yes.  There is something wrong with your logic.
>
>Please kindly explain. I like very much to learn from my errors.
>Thank you very much in advance.

Sorry.  I am under NDA.  Hopefully Arcot will explain sooner rather than
later.
I suggest not using the product until you are satisfied.

Bruce
**********************************************************************
Bruce Schneier, President, Counterpane Systems     Phone: 612-823-1098
101 E Minnehaha Parkway, Minneapolis, MN  55419      Fax: 612-823-1590
           Free crypto newsletter.  See:  http://www.counterpane.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: attila 
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 02:07:46 +0800
To: Bill Stewart 
Subject: Re: This is a listed crime?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980922231717.0090ba10@idiom.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




On Tue, 22 Sep 1998, Bill Stewart wrote:

>At 02:39 PM 9/21/98 -0400, Duncan Frissell wrote:
>>False.  You are never required to talk to a peace officer, Fed, or
>>investigator unless you want to.  They can arrest you of course (with
>>probable cause ha ha).  Even then, you still don't have to talk to them.
>>In criminal cases you *never* have to talk to anyone.
>
>The Supremes have, unfortunately, decided that police can hold you
>for up to 48 hours without getting around to charging you,
>and if there's a weekend around they can often stretch that.
>Some cops find that an interesting answer to the question
>"You've read me my Miranda rights and now you're insisting
>that I tell you what you want before I can speak to my lawyer who's
>in the next room?" "Yup, you can be as silent as you want in the
>county jail, and [since we're charging you with a bogus municipal charge anyway],
>we can charge you with a [bogus] misdemeanor instead.",
>which had a certain craftiness I hadn't really expected out of them :-)
>
>
>				Thanks! 
>					Bill

    Duncan is correct in that they can not make you talk; but as 
    you point out, there is the 48 hour issue, and bogus charges
    which are throwaways, if need be. they are the keeper, you are
    the kept.

    that was part of the point I was making; but they can also charge
    you with obstruction of justice which is one of those were you
    are really left with the burden of proof, not them. it is a whole
    easier to defend a guilty party than it is to defend a party who
    been unjustly charged --as a form of coercion or politics. if their
    is no guilt, on what basis do you defend other than mistaken
    identity and the corrupt officers are firm in their ID --you?

    as a related issue, the public often rails against a judge who
    releases more than average for technical reasons; I dont agree:
    the judge is just more honest and expects "lawless" and LEOs
    to obey the rules.

    jury nullication is a serious risk.  judges believe they have the
    right to define the rules under which you vote and are likely to
    order serious sanctions or even time for defying his house rules.
    I view it as a matter of Constitutional right and the choice of
    arriving at the gate with the truth in hand.  I expect prosecutors
    are including questions on nullification more often.  Aspen, or
    Denver has a case know where a judge is nailing a juror who did not
    volunteer the information she was an advocate of juror's right
    -she did what I would suggest: showed up non-descript, and sat
    there dumb and happy, and never objected to anything. it is 
    highly questionable that she was silent with the intention of
    impeding justice.

    what most Americans are just beginning to grok is that LEOs and
    the Judges are part of an ongoing enterprise which in theory is
    designed to protect us from the forces of evil. however, it must
    be considered that the person on trial is facing a "me v.them"
    arrangement of convenience.

	attila out...





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 07:03:47 +0800
To: cryptography@c2.net
Subject: IP: US Easing Bank Rules on Big Cash Transactions
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Delivered-To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
X-Sender: believer@telepath.com
Date: Mon, 05 May 1997 15:44:45 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com
From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: US Easing Bank Rules on Big Cash Transactions
Mime-Version: 1.0
Sender: owner-ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
Precedence: list
Reply-To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  New York Times
http://www.nytimes.com/yr/mo/day/news/financial/cash-transactions-reuters.html

September 22, 1998

U.S. Is Easing Bank Rules on Big Cash Transactions

By REUTERS

WASHINGTON -- The Treasury Department announced Monday
that it was trimming its requirements for reporting large cash
transactions. The measures had been introduced to try to curb money
laundering.

Banks had criticized the requirements, the Treasury said, "because they
mandated repetitive paperwork" for routine transactions. The changes
will lighten the banks' paperwork load but will make bankers responsible
for acting as monitors and reporting anything to the authorities that they
think is out of the ordinary and that might indicate criminal activity.

The new rules will permit banks to conduct most transactions with "cash
intensive businesses" without having to report to the Government under
the 1970 Bank Secrecy Act. But banks will still have to file reports on
transactions of $10,000 or more with individuals and with certain types
of businesses.

"This rule does not exempt banks from reporting suspicious activity
involving those exempted activities," the Treasury said. "In addition,
certain categories of businesses, such as real estate brokers, automobile
dealers and money transmitters, may not be exempted."

The reporting requirements were originally established to help law
enforcement officials combat money-laundering by drug dealers and
other criminals who pass large amounts through businesses and banks to
give an appearance of legality.

The new rules, published today in The Federal Register, will permit a
bank to exempt a domestic business that routinely needs large amounts of
cash simply by filing a form stating that the business is exempt. The
business must have been a customer of the bank for at least a year.

Banks, savings institutions and credit unions can begin using the new rules
on Oct. 21.

The Treasury said businesses exempted from reporting rules by a bank
must have their exemptions reviewed every two years. But it said it was
dropping a requirement that banks include details about all of a
customer's transactions on the renewal form.

In 1997, the Treasury said, more than 12 million currency transaction
reports were filed. It said that as a result of the latest rules changes, as
well as an earlier streamlining of reporting requirements for transactions
between banks, financial institutions should be able to reduce such filings
by about 30 percent.

 Copyright 1998 The New York Times Company
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




**********************************************
To subscribe or unsubscribe, email:
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with the message:
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**********************************************
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--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 10:22:00 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Senate panel considers Internet regulations (fwd)
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 08:21:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: Declan McCullagh 
To: politech@vorlon.mit.edu
Subject: Senate panel considers Internet regulations




http://cgi.pathfinder.com/netly/0,2326,201980923-14632,00.html

TIME Digital's Netly News
September 23, 1998

   Senate Panel Mulls Web Regulations
   By Declan McCullagh

   Thought a GOP-led Congress was going to hold off on regulating the
   Internet? Guess again. A Senate panel is meeting this morning to hear
   arguments about a proposal to regulate exactly what information
   commercial web sites may collect from visitors.
   [...remainder snipped...]







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Sunder 
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 08:26:44 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: Stego-empty hard drives... (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199809230223.VAA07985@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <3608F63F.30A09543@brainlink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate wrote:

> If there was as much variety at the hardware level as you assume nobody
> could afford to introduce new computers every few months.

Whatever.
 
> Realisticaly it isn't this complicated. All one needs to do is write a
> program that allows the operator to talk directly to the hard drive
> controller. At that point it's a trivial matter to go out and find those
> hidden partitions. You could use normal drive recovery software if you had a
> mind, and that only costs a few hundred to a few thousand dollars and can be
> bought in the back of Computer Shopper.

Yes, and depending on the threat model this was about 5-6 on the last I've last
sent. To get around that, you either modify the hard drive's on board
controller, or you build a CPU emulator.  There is one that's freely available
called Bochs which will do this.  They can happily boot from their floppy and
talk directly to your virtual "hardware" and you still get through.

Yeah, I know, ol'e paranoid Jim will reply to this using the word "Tempest"
signature, to which I reply, if you're that paranoid, tempest shield your
notebook and put in several RF transmitters to spit back pre-recorded tempest
noise to play in synch.

Shit, and why not?  If you're gonna get THAT paranoid, you might as well take
all the precautions in the universe.  Oh, it's too expensive?  Well that's just
waaay too fucking bad.

Gee, but one would have to think, why would they go to that extent and expense
to find hidden bits of data on your drives, and not do body cavity searches and
MRI and XRay scans of your body?  Hell, why don't they buy electron tunneling
microscopes just incase you might have encoded your data on the surface of that
perfectly innocent looking CD jewel case in which you're carrying your music?
 

> Don't bother, I already know how to do that.
> 
> This would stand out like a sore thumb.

Shaaa, now that I've shown you how, of course you already know how to do that. 
Now that I've shown you the code and told you how it works, of course to you it
would stand out like a sore thumb because you know what to look for.  The
question is will it stand out to the minimum wage customs drone?  You seem to
think these guys are actually super spies, not clueless overpaid (for their
level of skills) bored burrowcrats working on an assembly line.  You're over
estimating their abilities by at least four orders of magnitude there.

Gee, I bet you use RSA with 65536 bits too and superencrypt with 3DES, IDEA,
and Blowfish and Misty.

-- 

=====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos==============
.+.^.+.|       Sunder       |Prying open my 3rd eye.  So good to see |./|\.
..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were      |/\|/\
<--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run  |\/|\/
../|\..| "A toast to Odin,  |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/.
.+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were....            |.....
======================= http://www.sundernet.com ==========================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Sunder 
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 08:29:22 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: From Spyking: DNA Technology
Message-ID: <3608F717.C8CC381D@brainlink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



****************************************************************
5) From: "Timothy Robarts"  
Subject: DNA Technology

London 16/09/98
 
September 16 1998

Police Superintendents' Conference: Stewart Tendler on how science is catching
up with the criminal. 

DNA detectives will fit a face to a flake of skin A SINGLE flake of dandruff
will soon be enough for scientists to build up a criminal's photofit, police
commanders were told yesterday. Experts believe they will be able to create
"genetic e-fits", using information gleaned from a DNA sample to build a
picture of a suspect's race, build, eye and hair colour, and even behavioural
characteristics. Within a year, forensic scientists will be able to take DNA
samples from minute scraps of skin left at the scene of a burglary and from
such surfaces as the steering wheel of a stolen car, the keyboard of a
computer and the outside of a drink can. They will be able to identify DNA
from the
wrappings round illegal drugs that dealers and couriers had hidden in their
bodies. 

The photofit will be available within a decade. It will include the height of
the suspect and other details including the shape of the ears and chin and
inherited physical defects. 

The DNA advances were forecast yesterday by Kevin Sullivan, DNA research and
development manager for the Forensic Science Service, speaking to the annual
conference of the Police Superintendents' Association in Bristol. He said that
genetic profiling was the "Holy Grail" for scientists but would be achieved
within ten years, aided by international work on gene identification. 

Dr Sullivan, who worked on the identification of the remains of the last Tsar,
Nicholas II, said that the breakthrough in taking DNA samples from dandruff
would allow investigators to take material from the tiny particles of human
skin that are found at every scene. He said: "People are constantly shedding
skin cells. The majority of household dust is made up of dead skin and we know
we can get DNA from an individual skin cell." 

He said that an armed robber could be tracked down by DNA evidence taken
within 12 months from flakes of dandruff left behind in a discarded
balaclava. It
is a person's DNA, contained in every cell in the body, which predicts an
enormous
range of characteristics including skin, hair and eye colour, bone structure
and even propensity to some illnesses and personality traits. 

He told the conference that DNA testing had become "1,000 times more
sensitive" in the past decade. Whereas ten years ago scientists needed a
bloodstain the
size of a 10p piece to conduct a test, they now required just a pin-prick
invisible to the naked eye. 

DNA samples would soon be used to re-examine unsolved sex cases and could even
be used in miscarriage-of-justice cases. Scientists were working on ways of
extracting DNA from sperm samples taken many years ago and still being
stored. 

New developments meant it was possible to identify bodies that had been hidden
for some time. DNA can be taken from hair shafts in the skull, from bone and
faeces and matched with the mothers of possible victims. 

Work was developing on portable DNA testing facilities which could be used at
the scenes of crimes to speed up investigations. Dr Sullivan said mass
screening in major inquiries had grown. Since the first screening in 1987,
in a double murder case in Leicestershire, there had been 91 screening
operations
in Britain involving 26,000 samples. Offenders were identified in 30 cases and
in one case a suspect walked into a police station and gave himself up when
DNA screening was announced by police. 

Dr Sullivan said that in the next five years scientists would improve the
collection of DNA samples from blood and saliva left on surfaces such as
cigarettes. Further work on identifying DNA in animals would begin next year.
He said this could be used to solve crimes against humans. Children who were
assaulted sometimes left hairs from their pets on the clothing of their
attackers, which could be used to identify suspects. 

Tim Robarts - t.robarts@btinternet.com -
http://www.robarts.com
 
****************************************************************
6) From: Will Smith 
Subject: Anonymous Net?

Hi there. Do you know of any stealth program's the will stop my
movement being tracked on the net  i.e.:  where in surfing, what sites i'm
going to, what OS i'm running ect, my e-mail address ect...

like a real-time netshield or fire-wall?

to keep the $pooks from trackin me online? 

The-MIB

****************************************************************




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: William Whyte 
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 03:39:33 +0800
To: "'Anonymous'" 
Subject: RE: ArcotSign
Message-ID: <01BDE6D6.415B1540.wwhyte@baltimore.ie>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> For this to work, the public key has to be kept secret(!).
>...
> As Greg points out, much the same could be accomplished simply by having
> the servers share secret 3DES keys with their users, each user having his
> own private 3DES key.  The users could encrypt messages using their 3DES
> key and the server would decrypt using the appropriate key, which would
> also serve to authenticate the user.

The difference between this scheme and a shared-secret scheme (if I
understand this scheme correctly) is that Arcot's infrastructure gives
you non-repudiation -- the central server can't forge authenticated
messages from you -- and so it's suitable for transactions of value
in a way that a shared-secret scheme isn't.

Cheers,

William




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ben Laurie 
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 03:59:58 +0800
To: David Jablon 
Subject: Re: ArcotSign (was Re: Does security depend on hardware?)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3608B833.DA9AC6FE@algroup.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



David Jablon wrote:
> 
> Bruce Schneier wrote:
> >> The advantages are that offline password guessing is impossible.
> 
> At 03:24 PM 9/22/98 +0100, Ben Laurie wrote:
> > The 'I' word always makes me nervous - do you really mean that, or do
> > you just mean "very difficult"?
> 
> Why be nervous?  It's not that hard to prevent off-line
> guessing of the PIN, given access to just the client's stored
> data.  Here "impossible" means "as hard as breaking your
> favorite PK method".

Which is:

a) not impossible
b) not proven to be as difficult as we think it is (cf. quantum
computers, novel factorisation methods).

That's why.

Cheers,

Ben.

-- 
Ben Laurie            |Phone: +44 (181) 735 0686| Apache Group member
Freelance Consultant  |Fax:   +44 (181) 735 0689|http://www.apache.org/
and Technical Director|Email: ben@algroup.co.uk |
A.L. Digital Ltd,     |Apache-SSL author     http://www.apache-ssl.org/
London, England.      |"Apache: TDG" http://www.ora.com/catalog/apache/

WE'RE RECRUITING! http://www.aldigital.co.uk/




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 09:43:58 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Stego-empty hard drives... (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809231511.KAA10445@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 09:23:11 -0400
> From: Sunder 
> Subject: Re: Stego-empty hard drives... (fwd)

> Yes, and depending on the threat model this was about 5-6 on the last I've last
> sent. To get around that, you either modify the hard drive's on board
> controller, or you build a CPU emulator.  There is one that's freely available
> called Bochs which will do this.  They can happily boot from their floppy and
> talk directly to your virtual "hardware" and you still get through.

How do you propose to start this hardware emulator when it's boot file isn't
on their boot floppy?

And you think customs agents using software and TEMPEST signature scanning
is out in the woods....


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 10:10:10 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Stego-empty hard drives... (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809231538.KAA10721@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 17:02:48 +0200
> From: "Albert P. Franco, II" 
> Subject: Re: Stego-empty hard drives... (fwd)

> I can't imagine that anyone that wasn't already sure that you were playing
> tricks with the HD would be able to detect either of these on a normal
> startup. Again I think the key is that it would vastly expensive and very
> time consuming for customs services to make more than a cursory check. More
> and more people are carrying notebooks with them on trips and just like
> most bag searching has ended due to very fast, but not perfect, technology,
> notebook scanning is limited by the very important public factor--the
> people waiting in line behind you will tend to get very anxious. :)

That's a rationale for doing TEMPEST scanning I hadn't thought of. Since it
is time consuming and takes special training (which means higher personel
budgets that don't amortise over time like hardware) to operate a floppy
scanner and interpet the results there are budget forces involved.

A box with a flat top and a funny looking cage on top that a agent could 
use thusly:

"Sir would you please place your laptop on the tray and turn it on?..."

It becomes possible to scan for sureptitous clock devices (their tick, tick,
tick in the EM), mod'ed hardware, and software.

Follow this with a gas spectrograph and a x-ray and you'd have the vast
majority of bases covered.

Since most countries require production equivalent models to undergo testing
(eg FCC EM emissions) it wouldn't be that much of a budget increase on that
end either.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 10:12:45 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Why lying under oath is bad and worth impeachment [fwd]
Message-ID: <199809231540.KAA10787@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Here's a timely jewel.  James Traficant's (D-Ohio) one-minute speech
> before House on September 15th.
> 
> James Traficant (D-Ohio) Home Page
> http://www.house.gov/traficant/
> 
> E-mail: telljim@mail.house.gov  (Rep. Jim Traficant D-OH)
> 
> 
> AN AMERICA WITH TWO LEGAL STANDARDS IS AN AMERICA WITH NO LEGAL
> STANDARDS
>               September 15, 1998
> 
> Mr. Speaker, if Joe Q. Citizen lied in a civil trial, he would be sued
> for every penny. If Joe Q. Citizen lied to a Grand Jury, he would go to
> jail. Lying is perjury. Perjury is a crime.
> 
> Now, having said that, what is going on here, Mr. Speaker? Does America
> now have two legal standards, one for you, one for  me; one for he, one
> for she; one for generals, one for soldiers; one for Presidents, one for
> residents?
> 
> Let us tell it like it is. Joe Q. Citizen cannot apologize, Joe Q.
> Citizen is not censured, Joe Q. Citizen is prosecuted. And let me warn
> Congress: An America with two legal standards is an America with no
> legal standards.
> 
> Mr. Speaker, I yield back the balance of the lives of all of the
> soldiers that gave their lives fighting to preserve our freedom.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 10:14:22 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Other ways to mod the BIOS...
Message-ID: <199809231543.KAA10866@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



There is also the potential to mod the BIOS in a hot environment.

Shadow the BIOS to RAM, use a program on your hard-drive that mod's that
image and does a soft-reboot so the BIOS image is unaffected (since we're
mod'ing the BIOS image why do it half-assed) and suddenly your 'hidden'
whatever is sitting there.

You could do it while the system is online even if you're careful not
to mod anything but the BIOS image.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 10:48:12 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com
Subject: Re: Stego-empty hard drives... (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980924170248.006b469c@pop.ctv.es>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 10:02 AM -0500 9/24/98, Albert P. Franco, II wrote:

>I think perhaps a tougher question is, "Is there a way, without resorting
>to bloodshed, to regain control of our private property and private lives?"
>That's not a troll! I know that there are a lot people on this list with
>their assault rifles at the ready, that are convinced that only armed
>resistance will work. But. I think that's the "easy" way out. (How) can it
>be done another way? Especially, given the fact that so much progress has
>already been made by the very Anti-American US Government and others.

	There is no way to make an omlete without opening the Eggshell.
There might be less violent methods than cracking it with a 5 pound hammer,
but the shell has to get cracked.

>How do we get back our civil rights that have been so eroded over the past
>40 years? Is it too late? Are people in general so comfortable that liberty
>isn't important anymore?

	Pretty much.
--
petro@playboy.com----for work related issues. I don't speak for Playboy.
petro@bounty.org-----for everthing else.      They wouldn't like that.
                                              They REALLY
Economic speech IS political speech.          wouldn't like that.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bram 
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 13:10:16 +0800
To: Bruce Schneier 
Subject: Re: ArcotSign (was Re: Does security depend on hardware?)
In-Reply-To: <4.0.2.19980923070056.0096b380@mail.visi.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Wed, 23 Sep 1998, Bruce Schneier wrote:

> Sorry.  I am under NDA.  Hopefully Arcot will explain sooner rather than
> later. I suggest not using the product until you are satisfied.

I'd say the following has been well established by now - 

- The people at ArcotSign are not completely clueless

- They're doing things in a possibly sub-optimal way as far as publically
explaining their algorithms, but this is a decision on their part, it's
not that they don't have reasonable algorithms to back things up

- They're not releasing due to being afraid of people copying their
product before they've gotten sufficiently far in development/achieved
some market penetration. Those of you who don't work at startups might not
be familiar with this sort of thinking, but it's completely reasonable -
if you go around telling everybody all the little details of how to make
things work, some large company might make a very quick bastardized
version and throw lots of marketing oomph behind it.

- Their marketing materials are a bit misleading. This they can reasonably
be faulted for.

In short, at worst it's a poor product, but not 'snake-oil'. I have no
idea whether it's a *good* product, since I've never looked at it, but for
all I know it might be the greatest thing since sliced bread.

I think that pretty much sums up everything there is to currently say on
the subject, until ArcotSign releases more details.

-Bram

(Who isn't talking about what he's working on until the official release
of a reasonably well fleshed-out product comes out.)




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Sunder 
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 10:51:52 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: Stego-empty hard drives... (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199809231511.KAA10445@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <360918AC.AFB13B40@brainlink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate wrote:

> > controller, or you build a CPU emulator.  There is one that's > > freely available
> > called Bochs which will do this.  They can happily boot from their floppy
> > and talk directly to your virtual "hardware" and you still get through.
> 
> How do you propose to start this hardware emulator when it's boot file isn't
> on their boot floppy?

Simple.  You set the bios to boot off the hard drive.  You could even set your
notebook to sleep, then when they ask you to turn it on, you wake it and have
your emulator boot from the floppy.  This is especially effective if you
scratch up the case of your notebook and make it look older by modifying it's
case to look like it's a 486 or 386 to account for the difference in speed.

Shit, if you had the source to something like SoftPC or Virtual PC, you could
modify it to work on a Mac notebook (of course the nice Apple Logo would give
you away, but I'm sure you can figure out how to modify the case and the apple
keys.)
 
> And you think customs agents using software and TEMPEST signature scanning
> is out in the woods....

I'll worry about them using TEMPEST scanners when I hear reports that say
they're using it.  Until such time, you're being overly paranoid.

Until they start, this point is moot.  In any case the answer to that silly
idea is tempest shield your box, but include RF transmitters in various places
outside the shielding to emit the frequencies that a normal unaltered notebook
would transmit.

-- 

=====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos==============
.+.^.+.|       Sunder       |Prying open my 3rd eye.  So good to see |./|\.
..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were      |/\|/\
<--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run  |\/|\/
../|\..| "A toast to Odin,  |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/.
.+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were....            |.....
======================= http://www.sundernet.com ==========================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 14:21:18 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: This is a listed crime?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980922231717.0090ba10@idiom.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 12:04 AM -0700 9/23/98, attila wrote:

>    Duncan is correct in that they can not make you talk; but as
>    you point out, there is the 48 hour issue, and bogus charges
>    which are throwaways, if need be. they are the keeper, you are
>    the kept.
>
>    that was part of the point I was making; but they can also charge
>    you with obstruction of justice which is one of those were you
>    are really left with the burden of proof, not them. it is a whole
>    easier to defend a guilty party than it is to defend a party who
>    been unjustly charged --as a form of coercion or politics. if their
>    is no guilt, on what basis do you defend other than mistaken
>    identity and the corrupt officers are firm in their ID --you?

I believe this misstates the actual role of "obstruction of justice."

So far as I know, and I admit that I am not a lawyer and am not current on
case law, one cannot be charged with "obstruction of justice" for remaining
silent. O.J. Simpson, for example, was not charged thusly for not talking
(he of course stopped talking a few days after the murders, gave no further
interviews with the police and DA, and of course never testified in court).

Even Slick Willy is only being charged (by Starr) with obstruction of
justice for using his office to send out his underlings to propagate his
lies, and various things related to using his office to impede Starr's
investigation.

Merely asserting Fifth Amendment protections and Miranda rights should not,
except in Wonderland, trigger "obstruction of justice" charges. Though
we're almost in Wonderland, we're not quite there yet.

>    jury nullication is a serious risk.  judges believe they have the
>    right to define the rules under which you vote and are likely to
>    order serious sanctions or even time for defying his house rules.
>    I view it as a matter of Constitutional right and the choice of
>    arriving at the gate with the truth in hand.  I expect prosecutors
>    are including questions on nullification more often.  Aspen, or
>    Denver has a case know where a judge is nailing a juror who did not
>    volunteer the information she was an advocate of juror's right
>    -she did what I would suggest: showed up non-descript, and sat
>    there dumb and happy, and never objected to anything. it is
>    highly questionable that she was silent with the intention of
>    impeding justice.

I'll be interested to hear the outcome of this case.

I haven't been called as a juror since 25 years ago, but I certainly don't
plan to "volunteer" any information not requested of me. (And I may decide
not to even answer some questions they _do_ ask me. How we have come to a
situation where a court and jury consultants may ask highly personal
questions of prospective jurors is a sign of the train wreck that America
has become.)

--Tim May

(This space left blank pending determ. of acceptability to the gov't.)
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Bernardo B. Terrado" 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 23:42:35 +0800
To: Bruce Schneier 
Subject: what is...
In-Reply-To: <199809220946.EAA09436@mixer.visi.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



What is password salting ?

About the 64 bit key ....
  example I used the key uvietf31 does this mean it is converted to a 64
   bit 0's or/and 1's?


Thanks!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It's me Bernie.
metaphone@altavista.net
``````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 14:46:40 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: George Santyana & crypto
Message-ID: <36094F13.EF0@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

I am reading http://www.jya.com/sig-attack.htm
---

  Then, in late 1942, the Royal Navy switched codes to the one-time
  pad system. The Nazi tap was lost forever because the
  pad system is unbreakable in both theory as well as practice.
  U-boats could no longer ambush helpless ships like wolves on
  sheep. Convoy after convoy arrived safe and intact, protected in the  
  armor of an unbreakable code system. The U-boats had
  to change tactics. http://www.us.net/softwar/

Germany used the enigma algorithm and machine.

Japan used the purple algorithm.

And look what happened to them.

About crypto algorithms.

        "Those who cannot remember the past are doomed to repeat
         it."     
                           -- George Santyana, 1905

Title: Black and White Test of Cryptographic Algorithms




	

	
		
			
				
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: pgut001@cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 21:31:22 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: German court: DES is no good
Message-ID: <90651796017802@cs26.cs.auckland.ac.nz>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



http://www.thestandard.net/articles/display/0,1449,1780,00.html
 
German Court Ruling Another Blow To U.S. Encryption Standard
By Mary Lisbeth D'Amico
 
MUNICH - A German district court has ordered a bank in Frankfurt to repay a 
customer 4,543 marks (US$2,699) for money withdrawn from her bank account 
after her bank card was stolen.
 
The decision, made public Monday, again points to the holes in the 56-bit 
encryption technology used in Eurocheque cards, called EC Cards, according to 
the Chaos Computer Club, a German hackers group.
 
Calling the encryption technology for the EC bank cards "out-of-date and not 
safe enough," a Frankfurt District Court held the bank responsible for the 
amount stolen from the 72-year old plaintiff in February 1997. Neither the 
bank's name or that of the plaintiff were revealed.
 
An EC card is like a bank card which can be used at bank automats and 
point-of-sale terminals throughout Europe. The cards feature the U.S. 
government's data encryption standard, which uses 56-bit encrypted code to 
scramble the security information.
 
[Rest snipped]
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Alexander Oelzant 
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 07:40:44 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Stego-empty hard drives...
Message-ID: <199809231233.OAA21978@prawda.oeh.univie.ac.at>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Bill Stewart wrote:
> >Robert Hettinga wrote:
> >> Stegoing an encrypted partition as "blank" hard drive space without
> >> actually writing over it unless you wanted to?
> >> 
> >A freshly formatted partition has a fill value. Noise would indicate
> >that is is not fresh. This would not be proof that it contained
> >encrypted data but it would indicate some sort of use. 
> 
> It's really a shame how often MSMail files get corrupted,
> and how quickly the things can grow to 100-200MB if people from
> Marketing keep sending you mail with attached Powerpoint files.
> Does anybody know a compressed disk driver that lets you start
> at an arbitrary offset in a file so the headers look fine?

just installed the cryptfs patch for linux (from ftp://ftp.csua.berkeley.edu/
pub/cypherpunks/filesystems/linux/) which works nicely on 2.0.35 if you
mangle along the .rej files. it can use any offset
you want and also stego your fs if you like ... oh! wrong os for you?
then again you could certainly astonish your average customs officer
with it ... them probably not expecting your linux to use a ms file
for storage :-)

hth. alexander

-- 
aoe@oeh.net




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 16:44:03 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: No Privacy for Privacy Hypocrites
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Oh, *this* is rich...

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga
--- begin forwarded text


Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 15:12:46 -0400 (EDT)
Reply-To: love@cptech.org
Originator: info-policy-notes@essential.org
Sender: info-policy-notes@essential.org
Precedence: bulk
From: James Love 
To: Multiple recipients of list INFO-POLICY-NOTES

Subject: No Privacy for Privacy Hypocrites
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Comment: To unsubscribe from this list, send the message "unsubscribe
info-policy-notes" to "listproc@essential.org".  Leave the "Subject:" line
blank.

No Privacy for Privacy Hypocrites


     A grass-roots citizen group is forming to address the
unrestrained assault on privacy represented by the Kenneth
Starr/Congressional investigations into President Clinton's sex
life.

     The group, named "No Privacy for Privacy Hypocrites," (on
the web at http://www.noprivacy.org) intends to make Congress
confront the privacy concerns that are raised by the
investigation, by asking Members of Congress to declare their own
standards regarding privacy, and deal with the consequences.

     The group is concerned that the investigation into the
President's sex life is having a negative impact on privacy that
will affect ordinary citizens.  "This whole sad affair is the
product of decades-long disrespect for privacy, for which our
political leaders are responsible," said Evan Hendricks, Editor
and Publisher of Privacy Times and one of the organizers of the
group.

     "This effort is intended to arrest the free fall of privacy
rights triggered by the stunning abuses of power by the Starr
investigation and the Congressional dissemination of personal
information," said Jamie Love.  "This should be a wake-up call
for Congress," said Gary Ruskin.

     On Monday, September 28, 1998, the group will distribute a
survey to Members of Congress asking:

     Do you believe any branch of government should investigate
     allegations that elected officials have committed adultery,
     including allegations that they have lied about it?

     If a Member answers yes or if the Member refuses to answer
the first question, then (and only then) they will be asked:

     Have you ever committed adultery, and have you ever lied
     about it?

     The survey is designed so that Members of Congress who
support privacy will not be asked about their own private lives.

     The answers to the survey will be placed on the web at
http://www.noprivacy.org, as soon the surveys are returned.


     CITIZEN INVOLVEMENT


     There are several ways people can participate in this
effort.

1.   You can join the group by sending a note to
     info@noprivacy.org.

2.   You can join an Internet discussion about the campaign by
     sending a note to listproc@essential.org, with the message:

     sub noprivacy Jane Doe

     (If your name is Jane Doe).

3.   You can offer suggestions for the web page, which needs some
     work.

4.   You can encourage your own Members of Congress to answer the
     survey.

For more information, see the No Privacy for Privacy Hypocrites
web page at http://www.noprivacy.org

     Organizers of the Committee gave different reasons for
joining.  Audrie Krause said "Wasn't there something in the New
Testament that says let he who is without sin cast the first
stone?  And since we are heading toward a public stoning, we
should ask, is anyone in Congress qualified to cast the first
stone?"

     Jim Warren, the well-known Internet activist, said:
"If politicians are going to compete with the Jerry Springer
Show, let's make sure that ALL of the best actors have an EQUAL
opportunity to expose their bedroom activities to the world.
. . . Any member of Congress who refuses to answer this simple
survey, but votes to pursue hearings about some other
politician's private sex-life, should be voted out of office."

     Catherine Gavin said "All this looks as if some people
in this country had decided to drive a car going faster and
faster, without caring that there were no brakes on the car.
Something has to be done before all of us get hurt in the final
crash. This is about a lot of things, but it is mostly about
privacy, or the prospect of living in a world with no privacy."


     Initial Organizing members of the Committee

     Initial Organizers of the Committee, which is an Ad Hoc
group, include:  Gary Ruskin, Marc Rotenberg, Jim Warren, Manon
Anne Ress, Jamie Love, Catherine Gavin, Audrie Krause, Noe
Hatchuel, Charles Bennington, Evan Hendricks.


     To contact the Committee, send email to info@noprivacy.org

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 16:44:19 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Microgov't: Old Red Tape Looks Good in Comparison
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Delivered-To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
X-Sender: believer@telepath.com
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 07:51:20 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com
From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Microgov't: Old Red Tape Looks Good in Comparison
Mime-Version: 1.0
Sender: owner-ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
Precedence: list
Reply-To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  Government Executive Magazine
http://www.govexec.com/dailyfed/0998/092398t2.htm

September 22, 1998

DAILY BRIEFING

The dawn of the era of microgovernment

By Jonathan Rauch, National Journal

On Feb. 12, Americans awoke to read in their newspapers
that the U.S. government-settler of the West, vanquisher of
totalitarianism, conqueror of the moon-now writes the rules of
golf.

Casey Martin is a professional golfer who suffers from
Klippel-Trenaunay-Weber syndrome, a congenital circulatory
disorder that gives him pain and swelling in his right leg.
Because Martin cannot walk the links, a federal judge ruled
that he had the right, under the 1990 Americans With
Disabilities Act, to play the PGA Tour using a golf cart. "Mr.
Martin is entitled to his modification because he is disabled,"
said Judge Thomas M. Coffin. "It will not alter what's taking
place out there on the course."

To Martin and the judge, this was a "reasonable
accommodation," fair to Martin and therefore required by law.
To the Professional Golfers' Association of America, it was an
unreasonable intrusion, unfair to all the players who must wear
themselves out trudging picturesquely from hole to hole. One
interesting question was whether walking is part of the game of
golf. A more interesting question, however, was how the
government got into the business of deciding whether walking is
part of the game of golf. This was a line of work that the most
ambitious New Deal economic planner would find startling.

Today, conservatives denounce law-making courts,
communitarians denounce the "rights industry," businesses
denounce the litigation explosion. Each critique has some merit,
as far as it goes; but this article posits that none of them goes
far enough. If you want to understand the full implications of the
Casey Martin phenomenon, you need to view it-and the
many thousands of other cases in which individuals and their
lawyers (or lawyers and their individuals) press rights-based
lawsuits-as nothing less than America's third and most
extraordinary wave of regulation. Call it microgovernment: a
style of regulating based on the premise that each individual is
entitled to a safe, clean or, especially, fair personal
environment.

Microgovernment is not the same thing as small
government-far from it. In fact, it is remarkably expansive
government, but its immensity takes the peculiar form of an
infinity of microdecisions, each building upon, yet separate
from, all the others. In this, it is radically different from earlier
periods of regulatory activism. The first two waves of
regulation dealt in big, clunky agencies issuing one-size-fits-all
rules aimed at making people better off, on the average.
Microgovernment comes as a steady drizzle of court decisions,
seeping through the pores of civic life. Regulatory agencies,
such as the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, are
involved, but mostly as plaintiffs rather than as bureaucratic rule
makers. The main regulators are, indeed, not agencies at all,
but claimants and lawyers and judges and juries, all working
independently to spin, in the fashion of a mass of caterpillars, a
cocoon of intricate social regulation that enfolds even the most
minute details of everyday life.

"It's basically just an accumulation of micro-outcomes," says
Pietro S. Nivola, a political scientist at the Brookings Institution
(where I am a writer in residence). "You're not even setting
broad targets or goals. You add up a million cases, and that's
what you get."

So today, there is nothing unusual about waking up one
morning to find the government writing the rules of golf. The
New York State Board of Law Examiners is required to give
extra time on the bar exam to a woman who claims
(contestedly) to have a reading disability. A group of gay
municipal workers in Seattle is told it must include a hostile
heterosexual man who outspokenly believes in "biblical values."
A television production company is ordered to pay a $5 million
judgment for refusing to cast a visibly pregnant woman in the
role of a seductive vamp. The Supreme Court, in its majesty,
decides when a coach may and may not smack a football
player on the rump.

This article examines a cluster of familiar, sometimes
overfamiliar, goings-on and tries to look at them in a new way:
not as artifacts of jurisprudence but as a system of social
control. In other words, as regulation-but of a sort that has
eluded the scrutiny that regulation ordinarily gets.

Regulation, of course, is necessary, and no system is perfect,
and top-down, bureaucratic rule-making has more than its
share of problems. But microgovernment is fundamentally
different from other regulatory systems: It is less accountable,
less rational, and more intrusive than anything the New Deal or
the Great Society tried.

The Third Wave

In the standard account of things, there have been two great
and distinct waves of regulation in America, one now decrepit,
the other still robust. The first was economic regulation, which
began a century or so ago, in the days of the robber barons,
and lasted through the New Deal; the second was social
regulation, which blossomed in the 1960s and 1970s. Each
wave had its distinctive theory.

For the economic regulators, the problem was that markets
were unstable and prone to manipulation by cartels. The
solution was to establish agencies to control prices (passbook
interest rates, airfares, farm prices) and regulate entry into
markets (banking, communications, peanut-growing). For
social regulators, the problem was that markets dump social
harms ("externalities") on individuals who can't readily organize
to protect themselves. The solution was the creation of
agencies to reduce pollution (the Environmental Protection
Agency) or to act on behalf of consumers (the Consumer
Product Safety Commission), workers (the Occupational
Safety and Health Administration), drivers (the National
Highway Traffic Safety Administration).

Although the two waves were distinct, they had in common
their decision-making style, namely bureaucratic rule-making,
otherwise known as red tape. That is where the standard
history ends.

It is also where the third wave begins. Like the earlier two, the
third is rooted in a theory of market failure: that markets are
often unfair or hurtful. Its solution, however, breaks sharply
with the earlier two models, by rejecting the bureaucratic
model. Instead of looking to the executive branch to issue
rules, individuals (or agencies standing in for individuals) have
gone to court for redress. Under pressure from activists with
regulatory agendas and ordinary people with genuine
grievances, the courts have responded. In the 1960s and
1970s, a series of decisions broadened the traditionally narrow
tort laws to allow people to collect damages for more harms
and for more reasons. The result lies in a peculiar gray zone
between a traditional, negligence-based tort system and a
randomly enforced right to personal safety. Tillinghast-Towers
Perrin, a management consulting firm, reports that, from the
mid-1960s to the mid-1980s, tort costs more than doubled as
a share of the economy (to more than 2 percent), with lawyers
getting about 30 percent of the take and plaintiffs less than half.

In general, the tort system is not so much unreasonable (the
horror stories are exceptions) as ambitious. People howled in
1992 when a grandmother named Stella Liebeck spilled hot
coffee on herself and won a $2.7 million punitive judgment
against McDonald's. In fact, the case was not silly: Liebeck's
burns required hospitalization and skin grafts, McDonald's
acknowledged having received 700 prior burn complaints, and
the punitive judgment was eventually reduced to $480,000.

The larger significance, however, was that juries were
colonizing the territory previously reserved for bureaucrats and
politicians. A National Restaurant Safety Administration, if it
existed, could conduct rule-making to decide whether one burn
for every 24 million McDonald's coffees sold is a problem
worth worrying about, or whether, in the big scheme of things,
other safety problems are more important. In the court case,
however, the jury saw just a burned grandmother and an
arrogant corporation that had dismissed 700 burns as "trivially
different from zero."

"The case prompted McDonald's, and other restaurants, to
turn down the heat on the coffeepots," reported The Hartford
(Conn.) Courant. America must be the only country in the
world where juries regulate the temperature of coffee.

The people who worried that product-liability law was
becoming a right to safety were not particularly noticing that, on
a separate track, another series of lawsuits was establishing a
right to fairness. For instance, the courts waded into a swamp
of workplace-harassment litigation and embarked upon what
became an astonishingly ambitious regulatory project. The
courts construed the 1964 Civil Rights Act, which forbids
racial or sexual discrimination in the "compensation, terms,
conditions, or privileges of employment," as covering not just
hiring and firing and wages but as striking "at the entire
spectrum of disparate treatment of men and women in
employment." That was a pretty big spectrum, and striking at it
required, among other things, that each individual's workplace
environment be free of sexual harassment, as defined by juries
and judges. Other decisions established a parallel right to be
free of other forms of discriminatory harassment, which was left
for entrepreneurial plaintiffs and puzzled juries to define. The
chart on page 2152 shows the result: Federal
anti-discrimination lawsuits have almost tripled in this decade.

By 1998, regulating through the courts had become, in effect,
Washington's default mode. Why bother with a new
bureaucracy to regulate health maintenance organizations, when
you can just pass a "patients' bill of rights," meaning (in some
versions) regulating HMOs through private litigation? No need
to hire bureaucrats, make painful political choices or spend
taxpayers' money; regulation by lawsuit is self-financing and
self-propelled. "It's really a shift to off-budget governance,"
says Nivola. The trouble is that it is off-accountability, too.

Digging a Tunnel

Imagine that, instead of a Clean Air Act, with its endless rules
for sulfides and scrubbers, we just had a Clean Air Bill of
Rights: "No corporation or business establishment shall impose
an unfair, excessive or unreasonable burden of air pollution on
any person or group."

Then suppose that, instead of creating an EPA, we granted
everybody standing to sue for large sums of money. In effect,
we would give every individual the right to a clean set of lungs
and leave it to juries to decide what that means. Instead of
viewing, say, Los Angeles as a big patch of air containing 10
million people, we would view Los Angeles as 10 million pairs
of lungs, each equipped with a lawyer. The government's
perspective is inverted: What was seen from the top down, as
a large environment with many difficult trade-offs, is instead
seen from the bottom up-as 10 million microenvironments,
each to be regulated in its own right. It is this inversion of
perspective that distinguishes microgovernment from other
kinds of regulation, and that accounts for its often-bizarre
behavior.

Over the past few decades, economists and good-government
types have learned a thing or two about good regulatory
hygiene. Some of the basic rules are:

 Set an overall goal before putting particular rules in
 place;

 Target outcomes, not process-success means reducing
 pollution or reducing on-the-job injuries, not writing
 rules or levying fines;

 Look at the big picture; weigh overall social costs and
 benefits to avoid chasing wild geese (ever since the
 1970s, all major federal regulations are subject to
 cost-benefit review);

 Propose rules in advance (in the Federal Register), and
 give all affected interests plenty of time to comment;

 Write down the finished rules, and make them clear
 enough to comply with;

 Don't give bureaucrats a financial stake in their
 actions-for instance, don't let them pocket the fines
 they levy, lest they turn regulation into a money-making
 scheme;

 Allow for at least arm's-length supervision by politicians,
 so that Congress and the White House can hold
 regulators to account.

Our hypothetical Clean Air Bill of Rights offers not a single one
of those protections. Indeed, it regards them as irrelevant or
improper. Courts and juries can't target outcomes, because
they control only each particular case. There is no big goal, just
the million microgoals of justice in a million particular cases.
And so, with our imagined Clean Air Bill of Rights, particular
justice always trumps regulatory efficiency. The EPA can say,
"Air that is clean for 95 percent of the people is clean enough,"
but no self-respecting court can say to a plaintiff, "Because
other people's lungs are clean enough, you're not entitled to
clean lungs yourself." Clear rules, known in advance? No such
thing; instead, a million court decisions, often conflicting.
Cost-effectiveness? The mandate is to do justice, not to count
cash, and in any event, courts are neither equipped nor
expected to conduct economic analyses of the decisions they
reach. Disinterested regulators? The agenda is driven by angry
complainants and entrepreneurial lawyers who have everything
to gain from finding new behaviors to punish.

Through it all, the politicians are relegated to the peanut gallery
as commentators, except on the rare occasions when they
manage to rewrite a whole law, which is far harder to do than
summoning a regulator to testify before an oversight committee.
"An agency can be punished in a lot of different ways," says
Thomas F. Burke, a political scientist at Wellesley College.
"You can intimate that they're not going to get the same budget
through Congress next year. It's much harder to discipline
courts all across the country, and individuals who are bringing
lawsuits all across the country."

So what happens with our proposed Clean Air Bill of Rights?
Some juries do sensible things, such as finding for plaintiffs who
were exposed to high concentrations of lead. Other juries do
weird things, such as finding for plaintiffs who claim that trees
pollute. Some courts decide that an "unreasonable burden"
means a high likelihood of lung disease, but others decide that
"unreasonable burden" means more pollution in one area than in
another, or any pollution at all. Over the years, things settle
down a little, as precedents accumulate in each old area of
litigation, but meanwhile complainants keep opening new areas
of litigation. In any case, no one can be sure what the
environmental rules are, because no one knows what the next
jury may decide, or what the next plaintiff may dream up. The
result is what Burke has called a "floating legal crapshoot."
Anything could happen.

And anything does.

One-Eyed Regulating

In 1989, the Exxon Valdez spilled more than 10 million gallons
of oil into Alaska's Prince William Sound. The ship's captain,
Joseph Hazelwood, had been drinking (though a jury cleared
him of intoxication) and was known to have sought treatment
for an alcohol problem four years before the accident. In 1990,
with the Justice Department's encouragement, Exxon
established a policy barring employees with histories of drug or
alcohol abuse from 1,500 safety-sensitive jobs, "where an
accident could have catastrophic consequences"-about 10
percent of the company's positions. For people transferred out
of such jobs, the company tries to find positions of comparable
rank and pay. Nonetheless, the EEOC is now suing Exxon for
discrimination under the Americans With Disabilities Act
(ADA).

United Parcel Service requires that its delivery drivers, who
pop in and out of city traffic, have sight in both eyes. It, too, is
being sued by the EEOC under the disability act. Walter K.
Olson, a senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute for Policy
Research and the author of The Excuse Factory: How
Employment Law Is Paralyzing the American Workplace,
points out that this is not exceptional. Omaha paid $200,000 in
damages for refusing to rehire a policeman who had lost his
sight in one eye and had suffered loss of peripheral vision in
another; Northwest Airlines is being sued for declining to hire a
woman with monocular vision to drive maintenance trucks
between airplanes. Aloha Islandair Inc. is being sued for
declining to hire a pilot with vision in only one eye. (If a plane
piloted by such a pilot were to crash, the airline could, of
course, be sued.)

Maybe one-eyed drivers and alcoholic tanker captains are
unsafe on the average, maybe not. But the important thing to
note is that the ADA never reaches that question, because it
forbids basing policy on averages. A bureaucratic rule might
say that if 90 percent of Exxon's jobs are available to
recovering alcoholics, that is enough. But all microgovernment
"sees" is each job, and each disabled person, and each
person's right to accommodation. Microgovernment is
one-eyed.

The threat of ADA lawsuits may not create either jobs or
goodwill for the disabled. In a recent study, two Massachusetts
Institute of Technology economists, Joshua Angrist and Daron
Acemoglu, found that the ADA "had a substantial and
statistically significant negative effect on the employment of
disabled people under 40." But who knows? Given that court
decisions are often nebulous or conflicting, that companies
respond to those decisions in many different ways, and that
lawsuits often chase deep pockets and settlement prospects
rather than urgent national problems, microgovernment does
not actually know what it is doing, let alone whether it is doing
it well.

The question is not whether helping the disabled is a good idea;
it is whether letting lawyers do the regulating is the best
method. Successful regulatory systems work by paying
attention to measurable outcomes and by feeding knowledge
about success or failure back into the system. Goals set by
bureaucrats and politicians may or may not be wise, but usually
it is at least possible to know whether a given regulation
succeeds at, say, reducing sulfur emissions or stabilizing freight
charges. The microgovernmental model, by contrast, sets no
overall goals, measures no outcomes, allows for little or no
evaluation of effectiveness or cost vs. benefit, writes few
unambiguous rules, allows no formal public comment even in
cases with sweeping ramifications, exiles politicians to the fringe
of policy-making, and buys us-well, we have no idea what it
buys us. If your goal was to design a regulatory regime that
violated every standard rule of good regulatory practice, you
could hardly do better.

Strip Search

Microgovernment is micro in another sense: not only is it
radically decentralized, but it pokes its nose into everything,
and no corner of life is too small for it to reach. Its
mandate-attaining fairness in every personal
environment-acts as a little microlever, prying here and prying
there, opening one door after another to the onslaught of legal
process.

Ask the PGA. Or ask Bill Clinton, whose sex life was scoured
in fine detail by Paula Corbin Jones' lawyers, thus giving an
enthusiastic microregulator a taste of his own medicine.
Clinton's alleged conduct with Jones was, at least, patently
disgusting. In many cases, distinguishing workplace harassment
from ordinary flirting is difficult; courts must go to great lengths
to do it.

Workplace harassment law was entirely cooked up by the
courts, and is entirely driven by the mandate for fairness in
particular cases. It therefore serves as a good example of the
microgovernmental regulatory style in its purest form. In Oncale
vs. Sundowner Offshore Services Inc., the Supreme Court
ruled this year that discriminatory same-sex harassment is
illegal. What exactly is harassment, and when is it
discriminatory, as opposed to merely, say, mean? The court
helpfully announced that a male football coach may smack a
player on the behind as the player runs onto the field, but may
not smack a secretary (male or female) on the behind in the
back office. Well, what about the locker room? In case the
exact line of demarcation eludes you, the regulators-meaning
the court-provided this guidance:

"The real social impact of workplace behavior often depends
on a constellation of surrounding circumstances, expectations,
and relationships which are not fully captured by a simple
recitation of the words used or the physical acts performed.
Common sense, and an appropriate sensitivity to social
context, will enable courts and juries to distinguish between
simple teasing or roughhousing among members of the same
sex, and conduct which a reasonable person in the plaintiff's
position would find severely hostile or abusive."

This is rather as if the EPA had defined illegal pollution by
saying: "We know it when we see it." To decide whether
harassment has occurred, the court needs to sort through "a
constellation of surrounding circumstances, expectations, and
relationships"-in other words, the intricacies of each
relationship in each workplace situation in each case. Every
joke, every dinner invitation, every friendship becomes a
courtroom exhibit, aswarm with lawyers. Who told which dirty
joke, how often? Who was friends with whom? What did that
dinner invitation signify? In a recent racial-harassment case
involving a black plaintiff and an Asian plaintiff suing their
former employer in Los Angeles, lawyers busied themselves
debating who was more offensive to whom. Remarks to
plaintiffs: "You don't sound like you're black." "Why are your
people's faces so shiny?" "You know, we bombed you
[Japanese] once. We'll do it again." Remarks by plaintiffs:
"dumb Polack," "white trash," "crackers," "redneck," "fucking
Korean." The jury decided the workplace was hostile and
ordered the company to pay $1.9 million.

Given that a microgovernmental lawsuit is often the legal
equivalent of a strip search, the prudent employer
understandably takes no chances on jokes, teasing, or personal
comments around the office. Lately, legal experts are advising
employers not to let workers recount stories from the movie
There's Something About Mary, a sophomoric comedy whose
scenes include, for instance, some business about genitals
caught in a zipper. "If you are telling these kind of jokes, no
matter where they're coming from, you're exposing yourself to
a sexual-harassment claim," Allen Rad, an employment lawyer,
told The Dallas Morning News in July. "You're better off just
not talking about it."

Subjecting each workplace, each job, each relationship, each
joke to exhaustive legal scrutiny can devastate communities that
depend on trust. In Seattle, two successive support groups for
gay city employees have collapsed under the weight of legal
processes launched by a hostile heterosexual man who was
determined to attend their meetings. "I was attempting to find
out what special privileges they were being given," says Philip
Irvin, a city engineer who favors biblical morality and secular
laws criminalizing sodomy. When the gays tried to keep him
out, he filed discrimination charges, and last year the city's civil
rights office found in his favor. The case grinds on through its
eighth year of appeals. Exhausted by the wrangling, the group
has not met since 1997.

At the end of the day, as the law thrashes about and tries to
make every personal environment fair, the results often become
simply bizarre. In one notorious recent case, the restaurant
chain Hooters, whose calling card is its scantily clad waitresses,
paid a $3.75 million settlement (of which almost half went to
lawyers) after three men were turned down for waitressing
jobs. A bureaucracy looking at the labor market as a whole,
with its 370,000 places to eat, might have decided that letting
some restaurants specialize in underdressed female servers is
not a terrible thing. Microgovernment, however, sees only the
unfairness in each particular case. Discrimination in allocating
even one serving job is too much.

The law (under Title IX of the 1972 Education Amendments)
forbids sex discrimination in education programs. In classic
micro style, judges and juries have interpreted this to mean that
each particular school needs to spend as much on women's
sports as it does on men's; because women are less interested
in sports, this has meant achieving equality by shutting down
men's college teams across the country. According to a
National Collegiate Athletic Association survey, men's
gymnastics teams are down to 32, from 133 in 1975. To
comply with a legal settlement, California State University
(Northridge) dropped baseball, soccer, swimming and
volleyball.

Elementary and secondary schools are now getting the same
treatment. ABC's 20/20 noted in May that a lawsuit by two
softball players, Jennifer and Jessica Daniels, required Merritt
Island High School, in Florida, to mothball a concession stand,
a scoreboard and bleachers that parents donated for the boys'
baseball field unless the same items were also donated for the
girls' softball field. When the program asked the girls' lawyer
why she was requesting quadruple legal costs, she replied,
"Because we put that money into other lawsuits." She is
currently suing 10 high schools. Thus the mindless totalism that
gives microgovernment its characteristic resemblance to a
lawnmower propelling itself through a rose garden.

Termite Attack

No doubt it is intrusive, in some sense, to require steel makers
to put scrubbers on their smokestacks, or landowners to
preserve wetlands. Yet the relationships interfered with are
business relationships, and the requirements are, at bottom,
economic. Microgovernment is of a different complexion. "It's
us and our personal behavior," says Robert E. Litan, a
Brookings Institution economist and former Clinton
administration regulator. "This is telling people how they have
to behave." For government, policing jokes at work, or
ordering colleges to set up as many press interviews for female
athletes as for males, or fining the producers of Melrose Place
$5 million for refusing to allow a pregnant actress to play a
bikini-clad seductress, represents a higher and stranger order
of intrusiveness. Never before has the government concerned
itself so minutely with the detailed interactions of everyday life.

Moreover, microgovernment creeps toward you like a swarm
of subterranean termites, rather than charging you like an angry
elephant. There is no city hall to fight, no bureaucrat to argue
with. "There is no forum in which you're having a national,
public dialogue about these questions," says Nivola. "It's not
happening in a legislature. It's taking place in a myriad of
courtrooms, and the cumulative effect of it is the regime. It's so
decentralized that it doesn't offer a visible target."

No one has any idea how much microgovernment costs. It may
well be less expensive than traditional regulation, given the high
costs of such old standbys as trade protections and price
controls. However, microgovernment's costs are best
measured not in money but in government's loss of respect for
people, and people's loss of respect for government. If the
excesses of 1960s and 1970s regulation destroyed the public's
confidence in the bureaucracy, what will the greater and
weirder excesses of microgovernment do to the public's
confidence in the judiciary? And how much grinding up of
personal and professional relationships is required before
someone figures out a way to stop the lawnmower?

Eventually, somehow, someone will. But no one has done so
yet. Microgovernment is in its gaudy first flowering, protected
from the traditional checks on regulatory excess by its moral
prestige as a defender of rights. Indeed, few people even
realize that it is regulation. President Bush embraced the
ultramicro Americans With Disabilities Act, even as his own
vice presidential Council on Competitiveness swore to thwart
regulation. President Clinton thinks nothing of demanding a
patients' bill of rights, even as his own vice president drums
away at the importance of holding regulators accountable to
results rather than to process.

In time, either there will be reforms-of a sort not yet
invented-or microgovernment will simply collapse, as
irrational and unaccountable forms of governance eventually
do. America's extraordinary experiment in regulation without
regulators will fail, and the country will move on. But what will
be the condition of the law when that time comes?
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




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--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: jason roks 
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 16:04:57 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com ()
Subject: PC Beta Download (was Re: Download Info (Form) PC)
In-Reply-To: <199809222208.SAA05453@sol00320.dynamicweb.net>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Hi,

Thanks for checking out Hotline. We hope you enjoy our software and tell
all your friends. Please check back at our web site for the latest news
about Hotline Communications Ltd.

To purchase licenses for Hotline software please visit our secure
transaction server at http://www.HotlineSW.com

If you experienced any difficulties downloading the evaluation software you
can try again from our secondary distribution server:
ftp://ftp.hlserver.com

If you have any technical questions please contact mailto:support@HotlineSW.com

kindest regards,

jr
--




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
jason roks

business development
HOTLINE COMMUNICATIONS LTD.
tel: 416.531.7804

jason@HotlineSW.com

http://www.HotlineSW.com
HOTLINE office: hlserver.com (207.245.14.170)
HOTLINE Tracker: hltracker.com (207.245.14.170)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"There is more than the web!."





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 10:10:00 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re:
Message-ID: <199809231505.RAA24019@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Oh wow, thanks for the update on the Clinton situation.  I'm grateful
since I couldn't find that information anywhere else, unless of course
I looked in the FIVE BILLION OTHER FORUMS BEATING THIS
GODDAMNED SUBJECT INTO THE GROUND!

Please do me a favor and FUCK OFF, or go stick your head up Clinton's
ass and quit spamming the list with FUCKING GARBAGE!  This shit is
worse than the sixdegrees mail.


At 06:15 AM 9/23/98 +0200, Anonymous wrote:
>To all: 
>We don't care so much that WJC did it with Buddy,
>or whatever, so much that he lied under oath.
>
>It is only rarely we get the sons of bitches on
>tape, and then you'll have to pardon us for 
>exploiting it.
>
>What the fuck, the TLAs leveraged their POTUS bugs for
>years...
>
>The only regret is that Frank Zappa was not alive
>to put it all to music.
>
>Oottoott
>
>
>
>Count of Monte Carlo
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Tyrone W. Grandison" 
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 17:30:13 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Inquiry
In-Reply-To: <199809231354.JAA00327@relay1.planetall.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





CAn someone point to where I may find a good documentatio on a NNTP server
(and possibly documentation) ?

Thanks,
  T




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Kurt Buff" 
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 20:43:38 +0800
To: 
Subject: RE:
In-Reply-To: <199809230415.GAA08863@replay.com>
Message-ID: <000f01bde75a$e2c9a2a0$1b01010a@boar.minuteman.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Well, yes, there *is* a problem in defining your stance by opposition to
others, but the term is useful, nonetheless.

Simply saying "unchurched" or "realist" or "non-religous" sometimes simply
doesn't say enough, or mean enough to others to convey all of the meaning
necessary.

| At 09:00 PM 9/21/98 -0700, Kurt Buff wrote:
|
| >I (as a militant atheist) merely say that if you can define
| your God, I can
| >probably prove he doesn't exist. Unless, of course, your
| definition is so
| >broad as to have no meaning in the first place.
|
| As a thinker I find the term atheism dignifies the
| concept of theism, so I find it offensive.  Theists
| are primitives and one needn't stoop.
|
| In my religion, saying unprovable things in public
| is a stonable offense.
|
| Joe Momma




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 18:10:58 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Inquiry (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809232337.SAA12426@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 17:20:43 -0500 (GMT-0500)
> From: "Tyrone W. Grandison" 
> Subject: Inquiry

> 
> CAn someone point to where I may find a good documentatio on a NNTP server
> (and possibly documentation) ?
> 

Linux


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Jean-Francois Avon" 
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 18:00:40 +0800
To: "Me Michel Kelly-Gagnon" 
Subject: Apologies: mistakes on my statistics...  Reality is *worse* than I believed or remembered!
Message-ID: <199809232250.SAA25339@cti06.citenet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



----------- from CFD V2 #602 ----------------
>From a post by Jean Hogue  
(Wed, 23 Sep 1998 Subject: a few impressions on the rallye)

[snip]
    - Quebec is waking up and joining in

    - the ban on "purse-sized" pepper spray -- that says it all.

    -   60 millions/year forever for gun control bureaucrats,
         4 millions/year for 5 years for cancer research

        38 women murdered with a firearm last lyear  
      3900 women died of breast cancer last year
        if this is not a feminist issue, what is ?

    - the 60 million/year maintenance cost is almost as high as the
      "total 7-year cost" of 85 millions promised for the entire program.

       by 2015, the total tab will be 1 billion dollars.

    - the gripping testimony of John St-Amour (Marstar)

        - the brutality of the search for mere _papers_
           SWAT with the finger on the trigger of HK MP-5 weapoons
           and using the weapons to point where to go to
        - the systematic harrassment of the government pursuing a non-
              case demanding St-Amour plead guilty to some trivial charges
              as condition  to stop this 3-year long harrassment
        - over $100,000 in legal fees
        - the role of Canada Customs, describing St-Amour as "violent"
        - the government has unlimited funds (taxpayers' money) and can
          outspend anyone and drag anyone through court forever
        - trumped-up charges of "unsafe storage" to justify the fiasco.
        - this can happen to _anyone_.  C-68 allows searching for 
              records, unsafe storage charges are routinely fabricated


Spin doctoring from McLellan [minister of Justice]

    - talk of confiscation is paranoid
    - the registry will be cost-effective
    - used weeping mothers of Polytechnique killings as prop for C-68

[snip]
--------- end of quote ----------------

Ciao

jfa







Definition:  FASCISM: n.:  a political and economic movement, strongly nationalistic, magnifying the rights of the state as opposed to those of the individual, in which industry, though remaining largely under private ownership, and all administrative
political units, are controlled by a strong central government.
        -------------------------------------------------
"One of the ordinary modes by which tyrants accomplish their purpose, without resistance, is by disarming the people and making it an offense to keep arms".  - Joseph Story, U.S. Supreme Court Justice.
        -------------------------------------------------
the German gun control laws were enacted by the "liberal" Weimar Republic government that preceded Hitler, and were a strong aid to his coming to power -- because they disarmed Hitler's opponents, and Hitler's adherents ignored them -- as criminals have always ignored gun control laws.

Disarming the public is a frequent first step toward dictatorships and genocides.  Once the disarming is complete, the public is helpless against those who have the guns.        -------------------------------------------------

PGP keys: http://bs.mit.edu:8001/pks-toplev.html
PGP ID:C58ADD0D:529645E8205A8A5E F87CC86FAEFEF891 
PGP ID:5B51964D:152ACCBCD4A481B0 254011193237822C


From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Marshall Clow 
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 21:06:17 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Jury duty considered harmful, or at least rare
In-Reply-To: <19980924015428.2767.qmail@hades.rpini.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 1:54 AM +0000 9/24/98, Anonymous wrote:
>So you basically wind up with juries which are stacked with welfare
>recipients, stupid people, and retirees. A jury of retirees may work, but
>the others surely don't.
>
Actually, the last time that I was called, the largest proportion of potential
jurors were people who work for the government in one form or another.

City park workers, school teachers, post office workers, clerical workers
who work at city hall, etc.

Retirees were the next largest group.

Between the two, they accounted for 80+ of the jury pool.

-- Marshall

Marshall Clow     Adobe Systems   

"Yes, the president should resign. He has lied to the American people time 
and time again, and betrayed their trust.  He is no longer an effective 
leader.  Since he has admitted guilt, there is no reason to put the 
American people through an impeachment.  He will serve absolutely no 
purpose in finishing out his term, the only possible solution is for the 
president to save some dignity and resign."
	
	-- William Jefferson Clinton
	    speaking in 1974 about President Nixon and Watergate




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "James A. Donald" 
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 21:25:23 +0800
To: Tim May 
Message-ID: <199809240225.TAA21955@proxy4.ba.best.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



    --
At 12:09 AM 9/23/98 -0700, Tim May wrote:
> Yet some of the apolitical numbskulls I know about have
> served on several juries in the same time. The Poisson, as
> expected, or something more human?

I have often read allegations of manifest jury rigging, but
from highly unreliable sources.

If juries are routinely rigged, then we would expect a high
number of repeats, particularly in politically sensitive
cases such as taxes, drugs, or organized crime.  We would
expect a drug jury to be composed primarily of people who
have been repeatedly called for a drug jury previously.  If
juries are rigged, it should be easy to check statistically.
Simply compare the number of repeats at a jury call with the
expected number of repeats.

To rig a jury by excluding undesirables such as Tim May would
be far too laborious.  To rig a jury it would be necessary to
include only desirables, thus the pool from which the jury is
selected would be vastly smaller than the official pool, and
simple statistics would show this up.

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     36kfZmqoLcEiOYb2EmT85BRIwhd8rlU2mEbg9tAo
     423cg9OMSTWTZb0pVq0EhzhtObK62XbWKkGvWVSHk
-----------------------------------------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because 
of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this 
right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.


http://www.jim.com/jamesd/      James A. Donald




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 19:11:29 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Invading Switzerland in WW2, pro and con (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809240038.TAA12572@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: "Richard Redd" 
> To: 
> Subject: Re: Invading Switzerland in WW2, pro and con
> Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 17:56:11 -0600

> Of course there's the old story about some conqueror (I think it was Hitler
> saying, "I could invade your country with 100,000 men". The Swiss diplomat
> says, "Every man would fire their rifles at the invader". "Well, suppose I
> send 200,00?"  "Then every one would fire twice."


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 14:19:53 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Cypherpunks defeat?
Message-ID: <199809231921.VAA12284@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 10:02 AM -0500 9/24/98, Albert P. Franco, II wrote:

>I think perhaps a tougher question is, "Is there a way, without resorting
>to bloodshed, to regain control of our private property and private lives?"
>That's not a troll! I know that there are a lot people on this list with
>their assault rifles at the ready, that are convinced that only armed
>resistance will work. But. I think that's the "easy" way out. (How) can it
>be done another way?

It's ironic that you would have to ask that question here.

The cypherpunks group was founded on this very premise: that through the
use of cryptography, people would become able to engage in a wide range
of voluntary transactions, outside of the reach of meddling interlopers.

Most cypherpunks have become disillusioned about their dreams, and you
will seldom hear them defend the notion that cryptography offers any kind
of alternative to a society based on coercion.  The past few years have
been hard ones.  The failure of digital cash, the gradual trend towards
a debate over when and how (rather than whether) to regulate domestic
cryptography, widespread abuse of anonymity, all these make the original
cypherpunk goals seem even more distant today than in the past.

Is the cypherpunks dream dead?  Is the movement over?

Maybe it is time to give up.  Throw in the towel, admit that we lost.
Sure, there are still battles to be fought, rear-ground actions where we
can perhaps delay the inevitable outcome.  But the vision has been lost,
and all that is left is the post-mortem analysis of the failed dream.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 21:32:11 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Jury duty considered harmful, or at least rare (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809240300.WAA13172@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 19:12:01 -0700
> From: "James A. Donald" 
> Subject: Re: Jury duty considered harmful, or at least rare

> To rig a jury by excluding undesirables such as Tim May would
> be far too laborious.  To rig a jury it would be necessary to

Not in the days of computerized records it isn't.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 21:48:46 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: IP: Microgov't: Old Red Tape Looks Good in Comparison (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809240317.WAA13306@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 16:47:14 -0400
> From: Robert Hettinga 
> Subject: IP: Microgov't: Old Red Tape Looks Good in Comparison

> Imagine that, instead of a Clean Air Act, with its endless rules
> for sulfides and scrubbers, we just had a Clean Air Bill of
> Rights: "No corporation or business establishment shall impose
> an unfair, excessive or unreasonable burden of air pollution on
> any person or group."
 
				ARTICLE IX. 
 
	The enumeration of the Constitution, of certain rights, shall 
not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people. 
 
[other related material deleted for space]
 
>  Write down the finished rules, and make them clear
>  enough to comply with;

That's what amendnments or for.

>  Don't give bureaucrats a financial stake in their
>  actions-for instance, don't let them pocket the fines
>  they levy, lest they turn regulation into a money-making
>  scheme;

I believe there is already a clause that stipulates that *any* material
taken for public use *must* be paid for. There is no latitude for how the
person got it.

> Microgovernment is micro in another sense: not only is it
> radically decentralized, but it pokes its nose into everything,
> and no corner of life is too small for it to reach. Its
> mandate-attaining fairness in every personal
> environment-acts as a little microlever, prying here and prying
> there, opening one door after another to the onslaught of legal
> process.

 
				ARTICLE X. 
 
	The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, 
nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, 
or to the people. 
 

    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 21:50:23 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: From Spyking: DNA Technology (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809240319.WAA13350@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 04:32:13 +0200
> From: "Albert P. Franco, II" 
> Subject: From Spyking: DNA Technology

> the target. Now they'll have the tools to do it. The same cop investigating
> your car this month could inadvertently (or not) deposit a few traces of
> your skin dust at the scene of a crime next month. They keep getting
> scarier all the time!

This is exactly why we won't see this become standard practice in the
majority of cases, the expense of guaranteeing the evidence trail.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 02:29:32 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Privacy: FTC Losing Patience w/Business
Message-ID: <199809240731.AAA25674@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Privacy: FTC Losing Patience w/Business
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 07:33:09 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  New York Times
http://www.nytimes.com/library/tech/98/09/biztech/articles/21privacy.html

September 21, 1998

F.T.C. 'Losing Patience' With Business on
Web Privacy

By JOEL BRINKLEY

WASHINGTON -- After more than a year of heated debate within the
government, the Federal Trade Commission has all but decided that it is
going to part company with the Clinton administration over the contention
that business can regulate itself when it comes to Internet privacy. 

"We are losing patience with self-regulation," David Medine, an associate
director in the commission's Bureau of Consumer Protection, said in an
interview, reflecting the larger agency opinion on this issue. "It's too
bad, but I think industry has lost the opportunity to show that they will
do it on their own." 

What was the last straw? Within the F.T.C., they called it "the Big Surf."  

>From all corners of the agency's headquarters in the spring, dozens of
lawyers trooped to special training rooms equipped with personal computers
and high-speed Internet connections. And for two weeks, they spent their
days trolling the World Wide Web, searching for privacy problems. 

Their intention was to find Web sites that collected personal information
from visitors but neglected to post any notice about how that information
would be used. The presumption was that many of the companies sold the
information -- some of it highly personal data on health, income and
personal preferences -- to Internet-list brokers, merchants and advertisers. 

The "surfers" had no idea what they would find; no one had ever dedicated
the time and manpower needed for this sort of targeted survey of the vast,
tangled, largely unfathomable network that is the World Wide Web. But the
Big Surf produced startling results published in a report this summer. More
than 90 percent of the roughly 1,400 sites examined collected personal
information from visitors, but only 14 percent of them disclosed how that
information would be used, convincing the F.T.C. that formal regulation
would probably be necessary. 

For more than a year, the Clinton White House had been saying that
businesses using the Internet should be allowed to regulate themselves.  

"If there's ever an arena that should be market driven, this is it," Ira
Magaziner, President Clinton's adviser on Internet issues, said as the
White House announced its Internet policy last year. 

But while the White House was formulating this strategy, a few blocks away
at the F.T.C. -- an independent federal agency not beholden to the
administration -- agency officials were conducting hearings and workshops
on Internet privacy, listening to complaints from members of Congress and
interest groups. They were also installing up-to-date computer equipment so
the agency could carry out the Big Surf and add the Internet to the list of
business arenas subject to F.T.C. scrutiny and enforcement. 

Now, with results from the Big Surf and the industry's reaction to it in
hand, several senior F.T.C. officials said, the agency will give industry
just a few more months to respond to the recommendations in its report by
demonstrating that it is effectively regulating itself.  

Medine said he would expect the industry to conduct a survey like the Big
Surf and hand over the results. If, as most commission officials expect,
industry does not provide such proof, the F.T.C. will draft a bill calling
for clear Internet privacy standards and ask Congress to pass it.  

As an independent agency, the commission does not have to get permission
from the Clinton administration to do this. And, given Congress' repeated
statements of concern about Internet privacy, a bill would probably get the
votes needed to pass. 

"It's not our intention to over-regulate," said Jodie Bernstein, director
of the agency's consumer protection bureau. "We don't want to chill new
technologies." But, she added, Web sites must begin "telling consumers if
they are collecting personal information, what they are going to do with it
and how the consumers can get out of it, if they want to." 

Generally, that means posting a privacy statement that answers these
questions. But since the results of the Big Surf were published in June,
commission lawyers have begun to believe that some Web sites are actually
choosing not to post privacy statements.  

"There's now a perverse, reverse incentive," said Ori Lev, an F.T.C.
official involved in Internet enforcement. "If you don't post a privacy
policy, we can't go after you." 

That became clear last month, after the commission reached a settlement
with Geocities, a popular site on the World Wide Web that the commission
had accused of lying to its 2 million subscribers. The site offered a
privacy statement that promised not to give out personal information
collected during registration without permission. But the commission found
that Geocities was selling the information anyway. That supposed deception
was the basis for the government's case.  

If Geocities had not promised to keep the information private, then it
would probably not have run afoul of the F.T.C.. As a result, Medine said,
"clearly there are a lot of corporate lawyers advising their Web clients
not to do anything now" -- not to post a privacy statement or anything else. 

Connie LaMotta, a senior vice president with the Direct Marketing
Association, calls that idea nonsense. "It's a very bureaucratic way of
thinking," she said. "It's upside down. Businesses want to post privacy
statements to establish good customer relationships and customer service.
Industry is stepping up to the plate on this." 

Ms. LaMotta said she and others in the industry agreed with the F.T.C.'s
stated Internet privacy goals. But Ms. LaMotta added that she was certain
that businesses could accomplish the task on their own. "It's our
experience that, when you tap them on the shoulder, change happens. They
say: 'Oh, gosh. OK."' 

With just a few minutes' effort, most anyone can find a Web site that
collects personal information from visitors, in registration or order
forms, without disclosing how that information will be used. But how those
sites respond when asked about this can differ markedly. 

A site called Soccer Patch (www.soccerpatch.com) is a trading post for
soccer-playing children who want to trade team patches. It lists the names,
e-mail addresses and in some cases the hometowns of children who want to
trade patches. That is a red flag for F.T.C. enforcers. They worry that
child molesters can use the information to find victims.  

As soon as a reporter asked Philip Rubin, president of Edge of Chaos, the
company that manages the site, about this, he immediately promised to
change the policy. And a few days later, he did. 

"We now require all contributors to provide us with signed permission
letters before e-mail addresses/and or names can be posted," he said.
"Contributors under the age of 18 must provide a form signed by their
parents or guardians." And the Soccer Patch site posted the form so that it
can be printed out and mailed. 

Rosenthal Honda, a Washington area car dealer, had a different approach. 

The company, like many car dealers, posts a pre-qualification form for auto
loans, requesting a variety of personal information, including income, debt
load and the amount of rent or mortgage payments. Nowhere on the site does
the company say how that information will be used. And when asked about
that, the company issued a statement saying, "We will look at the issue
with our Web developer." 

Asked two weeks later what had come of this, Rosenthal Honda did not respond. 

F.T.C. officials say they are investigating other Web sites and will almost
certainly file charges against other companies, as the agency did with
Geocities. 

 Dean Forbes, 31, an F.T.C. lawyer,  found the Geocities problem and spends
most of his time working on  Internet privacy issues. 

 "Generally we get ideas from reading the trade press," he said, as well as
from "looking at who is linking up
with list brokers; we get tips from interest groups, usenet news group
postings -- and complaints." 

Forbes, for one, disagrees with the idea that a Web site can escape trouble
if it simply decides not to post a privacy policy. "If you don't make a
visible statement," he said, "that does not mean there isn't an implied
claim." 

But while his agency and the rest of the government figure out whether to
push for new rules on Web privacy, Forbes sees a bit of improvement on the
Web. 

"I'm not saying everything's great," he said. "But there is movement." 

 Copyright 1998 The New York Times Company
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 02:29:36 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Biometric Security Showcased at Int'l Conference
Message-ID: <199809240731.AAA25685@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Biometric Security Showcased at Int'l Conference
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 08:28:26 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  PR Newswire
http://www.prnewswire.com

SAFLINK and Unisys to Showcase Biometric Security Solutions for Banking at
World Wide Users Conference 

TAMPA, Fla., Sept. 22 /PRNewswire/ -- SAFLINK Corporation (Nasdaq: NRID), a
leader in the implementation of biometric technology in the financial
industry, will be participating in Unisys Corporation's second annual FBA
Navigator Users Conference, October 4 - 7 in Puerto Rico.The conference
provides an opportunity for users, and prospective users, of Unisys FBA
Navigator retail delivery suite to discuss trends and issues in the banking
industry, learn about Unisys product plans, provide feedback to Unisys, and
meet with peer users from around the world.

Targeted at bank marketing and delivery channel executives, and at senior
technical professionals, the conference theme is "Multiple Channels One
Solution."Presentations and interactive business sessions focus on one of
the most critical issues facing bankers today: how to maintain a
consistently high level of customer service while securely delivering
products and services through a variety of channels.Among the delivery
channels the conference will address are the branch, the call center, the
Internet and mobile banking.

Conference highlights include:

-An on-site tour of Westernbank, a Unisys FBA Navigator client and a
SAFLINK finger imaging client.The tour will highlight the recently
installed Unisys retail branch solution, which includes finger imaging
hardware and software from SAFLINK.Attendees will also receive a private
demonstration of the solution and will have an opportunity to address
questions to Westernbank, Unisys and Unisys business partners, including
SAFLINK, Microsoft Corporation and Genesys Corporation, during a panel
discussion following the site visit.

-A keynote address by Dr. James B. Moore, Ph. D., President and CEO of
highly respected Mentis Corporation, a leading financial services research
firm.Mentis recently published a research report on biometric technology
entitled 'Beyond the PIN: Evolving Strategies and Implementations of
Biometrics-Based Recognition for Financial Services,' which included an
overview of SAFLINK's kiosk installation at Purdue Employees Federal Credit
Union.(Further information about Mentis is available through the company's
web site at http://www.mentis.com.)

-A thought-provoking slate of business and technical sessions designed to
address the benefits of a multi-channel strategy, and to highlight various
implementation considerations and approaches.

-A dinner in Mayaguez, sponsored by Unisys, SAFLINK, Microsoft and Genesys,
with a special "Welcome to Puerto Rico" address by Frank C. Stipes,
President of Westernbank.

SAFLINK, a Unisys Marketing Associate business partner, has worked with
Unisys to seamlessly integrate biometric technology with the highly
regarded Unisys FBA Navigator retail delivery solution.Capabilities
developed with Unisys include customer identification, and
teller/supervisor log-on and transaction approvals."Our partners add key
capabilities to the FBA Navigator solution, to the ultimate benefit of our
customers" said Judy Jones, Unisys FBA Navigator Program Director."We are
very excited about our partnership with SAFLINK, which enables us to offer
our retail delivery clients leading-edge biometric authentication."

Westernbank is the first Unisys customer to install the integrated FBA
Navigator/SAFLINK solution."We cannot say enough good things about how well
this partnership has worked" said Israel Lorenzana, Unisys Account
Executive, for Westernbank Puerto Rico."SAFLINK's expertise in integrating
biometrics, along with the outstanding support from their technical staff,
helped the development and integration effort move quickly.Their
willingness to participate in every aspect of the project, including areas
such as user training and helping the bank develop informative customer
brochures, also contributed to the success of this installation.They are
key players in the Westernbank/Unisys team."

About SAFLINK

SAFLINK Corporation, a National Registry Inc. subsidiary based in Tampa,
Florida, brings the Power of Biometric Identificationa to enterprise
networks and the Internet.The Company provides cost-effective
multi-biometric software solutions to verify individual identity, to
protect business and personal information, and to replace passwords and
PINs in order to safeguard and simplify access to electronic systems and
enable new online services for customers.The Company's Secure
Authentication Facility (SAF(TM)) suite of multi-biometric network security
products delivers enterprise-level secure access control to a range of
software platforms and network applications, including Microsoft(R) Windows
NT(R) and Internet Information Server(R). Further information is available
through the Company's World Wide Web Site (http://www.saflink.com).

About Unisys

Unisys is an information technology solutions provider that has a portfolio
of information services, technologies and third-party alliances needed to
help clients capitalize on their information asset to enhance their
competitiveness and responsiveness to customers. 

Unisys expertise is founded on the strengths of three global businesses:
Information Services, providing consulting, application solutions, systems
integration and outsourcing; Computer Systems, providing industry-leading
technologies; and Global CustomerServices, delivering comprehensive
services and products supporting distributed computing environments. Access
the Unisys home page on the World Wide Web --
http://www.unisys.com -- for further information.

SOURCE SAFLINK Corporation
Web Site: http://www.mentis.com

(c)1998 PR Newswire.
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




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To subscribe or unsubscribe, email:
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 02:29:30 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Biometric Signature for "Forms w/o Paper"
Message-ID: <199809240731.AAA25696@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Biometric Signature for "Forms w/o Paper"
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 08:32:25 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  PR Newswire
http://www.prnewswire.com

Doxis, Inc. Announces Forms Without Paper Version 2.1 Computerized
Data/Document Input And Storage System 

New Release Lets Pharmaceutical Workers Input Process and Analytical
Forms/Data Into Secure Document Databases, With Improved Document Authoring
Features and Capabilities. Communicates With Key Enterprise Systems.

                  Visit Doxis at WorldPharm '98 Booth #1033

    NORWOOD, MA Sept. 22 /PRNewswire/ -- Lewis Bell, President and Chief
Executive Officer of Doxis, Inc., Norwood, MA, a pioneer and leader in the
development of mobile computer-based forms management software systems,
announced today, at WorldPharm '98, the latest version of Forms Without
Paper(TM) -- Version 2.1.

    Doxis developed and markets Forms Without Paper -- the first software
package that allows mobile pharmaceutical workers to input critical,
real-time batch process, research and analytical forms and data -- with
biometric signatures -- directly and interactively into a secure document
database.  The original data is locked into the form, the electronic
equivalent of the original paper copy.  However, data can also be made
available to enterprise databases without retranscription, and without
altering the original form. Forms Without Paper is a client server software
toolset that provides data for trend analysis, and can be customized to
interface to standards compliant MES (Manufacturing Execution Systems),
LIMS (Laboratory Information Management Systems), and ERP (Enterprise
Resource Planning) systems.

    Lewis Bell, Doxis, Inc., President and CEO, said, "Forms Without Paper
Version 2.1 features a more advanced and flexible document authoring
architecture designed to better facilitate and speed the process of
changing and revalidating forms.  This is a major breakthrough in
computerized data/document input and storage, and provides tremendous
advantages to pharmaceutical manufacturers who wish to use electronic
records." 

    Forms Without Paper Version 2.1 provides a superior vehicle for the
collection of handwritten forms and data by mobile workers.  It bridges
gaps between the capture of handwritten, signed documents and data
collection in highly regulated industries such as pharmaceutical and HBA
manufacturing. These industries now have the ability to automate the
capture of these documents and data at the point of work.  They can also
share it over
worldwide enterprise systems, with their document management systems, and
with other systems, including MES and LIMS. 

    According to Bell, using Forms Without Paper Version 2.1,
pharmaceutical companies now have a way to computerize both their existing
paper-based batch records and laboratory data sheets that is based upon
their current paradigm, and, therefore, is intuitive, non-disruptive to
their operations, and painless to implement by industry standards.

    The software enforces version control and increased accuracy of data
collection.  It automatically verifies data integrity and applied
tolerances per field.  It proactively enforces compliance with SOP's, and
provides a
patented audit trail for changes.  The orms Without Paper client runs on a
pen-based terminal operating under Windows 95(R)/98(R) -- the equivalent of
an electronic clipboard.  The hand held unit communicates with the server
via wireless LAN.  The new release will be available in the first quarter
of 1999 to pharmaceutical and consumer product manufacturers subject to FDA
regulation.

    Bell is quick to point out that the new system does not obsolete
existing forms processes, but rather automates them, making them more
efficient and secure, and less error prone.  "Many companies do not want to
reinvent the wheel when it comes to processing the forms they use
throughout their operations," Bell states.  "However, they do want a better
way to ensure the accuracy and timeliness of their forms.  They want to
control their forms throughout their life cycles, as the valuable corporate
assets they are."

    Using Forms Without Paper, a worker now enters the data onto the
electronic clipboard using a pen, just as he or she would when using a
paper form.  The layout of the form is the same as the paper version, and
workers can also print out the paper form if they need to.

    As it is collected, information is date and time stamped, operator
identified, and secured within the intelligent form to provide a cGMP
compliant audit trail that will include all information captured in
association with the data.  Digital signatures that are captured are
non-excisable, and can also be verified to authenticate the entry, if
desired. Completed forms are stored in a Secure Document Database.

    Once transferred to the user's network, information is available to
backend ODBC databases, desktop applications, and ODMA standards compliant
document management software.  Forms Without Paper can also be used as a
front end to enterprise packages such as SAP(R) and BPCS(R), allowing
pharmaceutical
companies to extend the reach of these applications to mobile workers. 

    Training on the system is available, as well as consultation and
professional services, including validation services.  Distribution,
product support, consultation and professional services will be handled
through the
Doxis direct sales channel. 

    Forms Without Paper(TM) and Doxis are registered trademarks of Doxis,
Inc. All other companies and products mentioned are trademarks of their
respective companies.

SOURCE Doxis, Inc.

(c)1998 PR Newswire
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




**********************************************
To subscribe or unsubscribe, email:
     majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com
with the message:
     (un)subscribe ignition-point email@address
**********************************************
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 02:29:34 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Fwd: SHOWDOWN AT THE FCC (Microbroadcasting)
Message-ID: <199809240731.AAA25707@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: Bridget973@aol.com
Subject: IP: Fwd: SHOWDOWN AT THE FCC (Microbroadcasting)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 21:50:00 EDT
To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com

Date:         Tue, 22 Sep 1998 23:42:07 -0400 (EDT)
From:        Sara Zia-Ebrahimi 
To:            chatski@gl.umbc.edu

please forward to anyone you know who would be interested

UPDATE!!!!

SHOWDOWN AT THE FCC!!!

FREE RADIO ACTIVISTS MARCH ON WASHINGTON TO CONFRONT THE GLOBAL MEDIA
MONOPOLY AND THEIR MARIONNETTES IN GOVERNMENT!

Sunday October 4th and Monday October 5th

Calling all media activists, radio pirates, people for a democratic media
and people just fed up with crappy corporate radio:

Come to DC for the first national mobilization for free radio.
Microbroadcasters from around the country will gather for two days to
share radio skills, organize alliances, speak out to the media and protest
at the FCC and NAB buildings, culminating in a live broadcast straight
into the offices of the people working so hard to shut us down. Free Radio
Berkeley, Radio Mutiny, Steal This Radio and other microstations have all
broadcasted live in public and challenged the FCC to shut them down in the
light of day, in front of the press and the Feds have never dared to show
their face- this time, we're going to take it right to their doorstep and
tell them that if they're so sure that their dumb law is worth enforcing,
then the Chairman should come down from the 8th floor and put the cuffs on
us himself. There will also be workshops to help new folks start stations,
appointments will be made to lobby congress people, and press events will
be held to show the true, diverse face of the microbroadcasting movement.



Schedule

Sunday, 
Latin American Youth Center: @1419 Columbia Rd. NW DC
10am-12pm:
*Everything you need to start a community station besides a transmitter:
facilitated     by Joan and Eli of Free Radio Memphis 
*The FCC petitions: What's in it for us?: facilitated by Benn Kobb, Stuart
Poritzky and    Bill Spry  
*The current legal situation: facilitated by Alan Korn of the Committee
for Democratic  Communications, Scott Bullock from the Institute for
Justice
12-1 lunch
1-3pm:
*Transmitters 101: facilitated by Bill Gorz
*Starting a legal application to position for another First Amendment 
                 case: facilitated by Pete triDish and Alan Korn
*The threat of media concentration to democracy: facilitated by Greg
Ruggiero from Steal this Radio
3-5 pm:
*Transmitters 202: facilitated by 
*Commercial vs. non-commercial micro-stations: facilitated by Alan Korn
*Publicity: Tips on talking to the press and lobbying for support:  Jesse
Walker of the Competitive Enterprise Institute and Diane Imelda Fleming  

5-6:30 dinner  @La Casa 3166 Mt. Pleasant St. NW DC
7pm party/puppet making for demonstration @La Casa

Monday 
9 am Panel and Debate at the Freedom Forum: an event which will probably
be broadcast on NPR featuring micro-broadcasters, lawyers and FCC offcials
head-to-head




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 06:37:26 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Jury duty considered harmful, or at least rare
In-Reply-To: <19980924015428.2767.qmail@hades.rpini.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 9:54 PM -0400 on 9/23/98, Anonymous wrote:

> That is almost enough to make the more paranoid among us think that maybe
> they have a "do not summon" list.

What Fun! Just today, I got a summons for jury duty...

Is there a "do not summon" list? Synchronistic minds want to know.

Frankly, I wonder if most people who vote aren't just moving all the time.
I've lived in the same place 11 years, and my Jury summons comes every
three years, just like clockwork.

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 20:47:04 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Jury duty considered harmful, or at least rare
Message-ID: <19980924015428.2767.qmail@hades.rpini.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Wed, 23 Sep 1998, Tim May wrote:

> 
> At 11:11 PM -0700 9/22/98, Bill Stewart wrote:
> 
> >Yeah.  The times I've known the facts in cop-vs-citizen cases,
> >the cops have often been lying; I have to assume that they're often lying
> >in cases when I don't know the facts as well.  Of course, getting
> >somebody with that kind of attitude about cops onto a jury
> >is somewhat unlikely, but occasionally you'll find neutrals.
> 
> I last served on a jury in 1973, 25 years ago, no doubt before many readers
> of Cypherpunks were born.
> 
> And I've only received a single _possible_ summons since, in the 25 years
> since that  one jury appearance.
> 
> Yet some of the apolitical numbskulls I know about have served on several
> juries in the same time. The Poisson, as expected, or something more human?
> 
> Jury nullifying minds want to know.

That is almost enough to make the more paranoid among us think that maybe
they have a "do not summon" list. They basically have this anyway with the
prosecution vetoing possible jurors. If you're on it, you just aren't
summoned. People on that list would be people of libertarian mindsets,
politically outspoken people, Cypherpunks, professional people, etc.

If they do have a list, I'd kind of like to be on it. I'm a college
student, and I _can't_ serve on a jury for more than a day or so. The same
goes for doctors, corporate executives, and others.

There is an inherent flaw in the jury system. You get summoned and are
legally required to blow the entire day down at the courthouse. If you're
a student you miss classes, and if you have a job you miss that too. You
have to pay for transportation, parking, food, and whatever else you need. 
In return, you get paid something like $3, which often isn't even enough
to cover the parking and get told every five minutes that this or that
will get you, as a juror or potential juror, thrown in jail.

Meanwhile, if you're a doctor, scientist, college student, lawyer, or hold
any other professional position you're thrown off most of the time. If you
have a decent job or if you're in school, forget about it, because if
you're tied up for more than a day or so you _just can't do it_. They
don't want people who know that juries are capable of nullification. They
don't want people who can determine that the evidence of one side or the
other is suspect. They don't want people who will actually look at the
facts rather than the emotion of the opening and closing arguments. The
prosecution sure as hell doesn't want anybody who will look at whether a
law should exist in the first place.

"Hey, Doctor! Um, I have to serve on a jury. Can you take all my patients
for the next six months while I'm locked in a hotel room? Oh, and I need
to still get my full salary to pay my bills. Thanks, buddy." Um, no.

So you basically wind up with juries which are stacked with welfare
recipients, stupid people, and retirees. A jury of retirees may work, but
the others surely don't.

When the trial actually starts, the average juror, regardless of what
council may tell them about due process, is usually biased in favor of the
prosecution, especially if the government is claiming that the defendant
is an evil child molestor. If it's a case involving technology, you get a
bunch of bogus "experts" up there which say what council wants to be said,
because real "experts" refuse to dumb down their testimony to a
kindergarden level.

"Mr. May, will you please explain -- in layman's terms -- exactly how the
microchip fabrication process works?"

"Well, we start with..." 

"I'm sorry to stop you, sir. Can you please explain to the jury -- in
layman's terms -- what a transistor is?" 

"Well, in this context it often acts as a switch for an electronic
circuit, but it can also--"

"Would you please explain in layman's terms what a circuit is?" 

Argh. 

Can you imagine trying to be a defense expert in a cryptography case with
a bunch of jurors who can barely read, are unemployed, hate "nerds," and
beat the "geeks" up in high school, while the prosecution is constantly
screaming that the defendant is a kiddy porn trader and you're expected to
dumb your expert testimony down to kindergarden level? 






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 07:15:21 +0800
To: tesla@einstein.ssz.com (Experimental Instrumentation)
Subject: Smoke a spammers phone bill...try it, it's their quarter
Message-ID: <199809241244.HAA14249@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

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> Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 02:30:55 -0700 (PDT)
> Subject: Did you receive my last message?

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: gina.lombartti@usa.net
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 13:05:55 +0800
To: 
Subject: Hello from Hamburg,
Message-ID: <199809241801.NAA20389@galaxy.galstar.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



The Matchmaker,
   Agenzia di Matrimonio
      Biuro Matrymonialne
         Die Partnersuche   
   
I'm Gina from Milano, Italia and I help Singles from all over the world who 
are seeking for someone SPECIAL, a Romance,
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Just simply send me an e-mail and tell me little about yourself.

Regards,
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Ginna Agenzia di Matrimonio
Via Galvani 12
20124 Milano
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gina.lombartti@usa.net
 
 
 
 
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "David Formosa (? the Platypus)" 
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 08:03:56 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: your mail
In-Reply-To: <199809230415.GAA08863@replay.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Wed, 23 Sep 1998, Anonymous wrote:

[...]

> In my religion, saying unprovable things in public
> is a stonable offense.

I bet that makes peaple talking about program termination happy.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 21:30:24 +0800
To: Robert Hettinga 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980924090519.00b4c730@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Sounds like a great idea, in the "Asking for truth from power" category.
I doubt you'll get a lot of responses, but good luck.

>     The group, named "No Privacy for Privacy Hypocrites," (on
>the web at http://www.noprivacy.org) intends to make Congress
>confront the privacy concerns that are raised by the
>investigation, by asking Members of Congress to declare their own
>standards regarding privacy, and deal with the consequences.
...
>     On Monday, September 28, 1998, the group will distribute a
>survey to Members of Congress asking:
>
>     Do you believe any branch of government should investigate
>     allegations that elected officials have committed adultery,
>     including allegations that they have lied about it?
>
>     If a Member answers yes or if the Member refuses to answer
>the first question, then (and only then) they will be asked:
>
>     Have you ever committed adultery, and have you ever lied
>     about it?

Of course, if the Member answers "No", then the obvious followon is
	"So what are you trying to hide?"  :-)
but that's really best left for the version of the survey for
appointed officials asking if they think appointed officials 
should be investigated.


				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 21:40:46 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: sex, lies, and videotape
In-Reply-To: <199809230415.GAA08895@replay.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980924091028.00b4c730@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 06:15 AM 9/23/98 +0200, Count of Monte Carlo wrote:
>What the fuck, the TLAs leveraged their POTUS bugs for
>years...

There's been some suggestion that the Filegate files
included a lot of Republicans in compromising positions,
which is keeping some of them better behaved than
they might otherwise be (even if they don't know if
the files include them, they may still be worried.)
It's not clear if this includes the picture
of Orrin Hatch that's rumoured to be floating around Salt Lake.

>The only regret is that Frank Zappa was not alive
>to put it all to music.

It's all a bunch of bogus pomp anyway :-)


				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 11:46:42 +0800
To: Cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Additional drive/stego/tempest/customs NOIZE
Message-ID: <360A77DD.575E@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Dear Sir,

Sunder Wrote:
> You seem to think these guys are actually super spies, not clueless
> overpaid (for their level of skills) bored burrowcrats working on an
> assembly line.  You're over estimating their abilities by at least
> four orders of magnitude there.
>
Through the *magic* of taxation and government contracts the opponents
you are so casually dismissing as dull-witted drones are your peers. So
unless you really are smarter than everyone else I would say that your
above statement is rash.

If the motivation to snoop is strong enough the resources will be put
into place by the current crop of ground-dwelling representatives and
any imaginable technology could be applied to the *problem*. I doubt in
this case, at this time, that the motivation is enough to pay for a
database of EMI analyses of PC bootups.

Mike

I found this one interesting: http://www.jya.com/fbi-en7898.htm
Our elected representatives probably believe this official-looking
analysis more than they do mere citizen's opinions.

I have LOTS of copper materials. I have a source for conductive paints.
Could you suggest a good source for ferrites in powder and tile form?

All this to insure my privacy whilst I compute in my own house! The
snoopers have, by their very existence, a chilling effect on speech.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 09:59:11 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Jury duty considered harmful, or at least rare
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 9:12 PM -0500 9/23/98, James A. Donald wrote:
>
>To rig a jury by excluding undesirables such as Tim May would
>be far too laborious.  To rig a jury it would be necessary to

	No, no, On the contrary, far too easy.

	There are certain people who are NEVER called to jury duty, people
convicted of felonies & etc. simply put the name of an undesirable on this
list, don't release it as a _list_ of "criminals", and no one will
complain. After all, who complains about _not_ being called?

	Then, as you screen jurors who have recieved summons, you simply
add the most extreme to the list. Others aren't a problem because they show
up, and are dismissed.

	It's hard to do all at once, but they have all the time in the world.

>include only desirables, thus the pool from which the jury is
>selected would be vastly smaller than the official pool, and
>simple statistics would show this up.

	If anyone were to look.

	Security thru obscurity works until someone looks at it. If no one
thinks to look tho...
--
petro@playboy.com----for work related issues. I don't speak for Playboy.
petro@bounty.org-----for everthing else.      They wouldn't like that.
                                              They REALLY
Economic speech IS political speech.          wouldn't like that.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Sunder 
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 10:31:11 +0800
To: Petro 
Subject: Re: Jury duty considered harmful, or at least rare
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <360A650D.9F535A71@brainlink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Petro wrote:


>         There are certain people who are NEVER called to jury duty, people
> convicted of felonies & etc. simply put the name of an undesirable on this
> list, don't release it as a _list_ of "criminals", and no one will
> complain. After all, who complains about _not_ being called?

Why the FUCK not, it is supposed to be a jurry of your PEERS.  If you've
already been convicted of a felony, a fellow felon is your peer.  

:^) 

-- 

=====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos==============
.+.^.+.|       Sunder       |Prying open my 3rd eye.  So good to see |./|\.
..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were      |/\|/\
<--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run  |\/|\/
../|\..| "A toast to Odin,  |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/.
.+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were....            |.....
======================= http://www.sundernet.com ==========================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mark Hedges 
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 14:03:41 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Greenspan Farts, Market Tumbles
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Greenspan Farts, Market Tumbles

  NEW YORK (AP) -- American stock markets nose-dived today immediately
  after a press conference at the Federal Reserve Bank, when Alan
  Greenspan, Fed Chairman, passed gas in an audible expulsion of
  flatulence. Investors, spooked by the ominous noise, panicked.

  The Dow Jones industrial average lost 364 points in 20 minutes.
  Luckily for investors, the Fed Chief then uttered vague,
  ambiguous statements which could be interpreted as hints of an
  upcoming rate cut by the masses of illiterate investors. The
  market soared up more than 450 points, restoring confidence in a
  bullish market even in the face of the sensational Asian crisis.

  A key banking player from Merrill Lynch & Co., speaking on
  condition of anonymity, said, "That really stank. Greenspan must
  have eaten beans for breakfast." Other bankers at the press
  conference expressed similar misgivings about Greenspan breaking
  wind. "It sincerely disturbs me that this man's accidental
  passing of gas affects market performance in such a substantive
  way," said another banker. "Doesn't anyone believe that market
  behavior depends on more than this single man's intestinal fortitude?"

  Representatives at the Federal Reserve issued only a single
  statement, saying "Greenspan is in good spirits, and seems to be
  amused that majorities of investors give his flatulance this
  power. He is in good health, and his intestinal disturbance
  passed." The Dow index gained 90 points within 2 minutes of the
  release of the Fed statement.

  George Soros, billionaire hedge fund manager and global money
  market speculator, said regarding Greenspan's noxious vapors,
  "I don't give a damn what Alan ate for breakfast. This entire
  spectacle is ridiculous. If you or I farted, as everyone does,
  probably no one would notice. But for some insane, perhaps inane
  reason, nearly every American and many foreign investors dote on
  Greenspan's every comment and action, interpreting them as signs
  of apocalypse or a wealthy paradise, depending on their mood."

  In this exclusive report, a senior Fed official, speaking on
  condition of anonymity, said, "Perhaps I'm the only one in the
  world who sees rate cuts as a psychological panacea. A truly
  stable, substantive economy takes more than a slightly lower
  interest rate in an already flawed system of debt mechanics.
  We need to restructure the economy on solid grounds with long-
  term growth goals. The economy must not be structured only to
  increase the short-term profits of investors who are only
  interested in the bottom-line monetary numbers, but who do not
  care about the real effects their money has in our world."

  Fed officials declined further comment on the incident. Some
  financial analysts believe Greenspan's foul air is a clear
  sign the Fed will decide to cut interest rates at next week's
  strategy meeting.

-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.D. section 107, this erroneous and
humorous material is distributed without profit or payment to those who
have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for purpose
of laughs and giggles only.
-----------------------


________________________________________________________________
  Mark Hedges      hedges@infopeace.com      www.infopeace.com

  "One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard
  a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish
  a dictatorship."  O'Brien from 1984, George Orwell
________________________________________________________________





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 12:24:25 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: NRO goes COTS: "Born Secret" ain't what it used to be...
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Delivered-To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 01:52:01 -0400
From: Richard Sampson 
Organization: Unknown Organization
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: "ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com" 
Subject: IP: NRO TO LAUNCH SATELLITE TO EXPLORE TECHNOLOGIES By Frank Wolfe
Sender: owner-ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Richard Sampson 
Status: U

NRO TO LAUNCH SATELLITE TO EXPLORE TECHNOLOGIES By Frank Wolfe
  Sep. 23, 1998 (DEFENSE DAILY, Vol. 200, No. 24 via COMTEX) --
CHANTILLY, Va.-The National Reconnaissance Office (NRO) plans to launch
the Space Technology Experiment (STEX) satellite Oct. 1 at Vandenberg
AFB, Calif., to test and validate 29 new technologies.

"The NRO recognizes the national need and challenges of providing
future overhead collection systems with good performance at reduced
cost, so we're aggressively pursuing technology options," John Schaub,
the STEX program director, told reporters yesterday at NRO headquarters
here.

The STEX satellite is the first the NRO has announced prior to launch,
officials said. With the end of the Cold War and the shrinking defense
budget, NRO now believes it needs to justify its programs in a more
open forum, officials said.

Launched aboard an Orbital Sciences Corp. [ORB] Taurus launch vehicle,
STEX is designed to explore new commercial-off-the-shelf (COTS)
technologies to enhance future space missions, like overhead
collection, at a lower cost. The 1,540-pound satellite is designed to
last two years in space.

The STEX program began three years ago when NRO partnered with
Lockheed Martin [LMT] in Colorado, the Naval Research Laboratory and
the Air Force Research Laboratory.

The cost of the satellite--its booster, launch costs and ground
support--is less than $90 million, the NRO said.

"Keeping the schedule short was a key contributor to keeping the total
costs low," Schaub said. "It's significantly cheaper."

NRO director Keith Hall has said he wants to increase NRO's research
and development efforts from 8 percent to 10 percent of the agency's
total budget and STEX is part of that plan (Defense Daily, May 26).

STEX is the first in a series of low-cost demonstrations by the NRO's
Advanced Systems and Technology Directorate.

The technologies to be tested aboard STEX include an Electric
Propulsion Demonstration Module using a Russian-built engine, a 51-
gigabit solid state data recorder (the world's largest), multifunction
solar cells, high-density nickel-hydrogen batteries and an Advanced
Tether Experiment, Schaub said.

The NRO hopes the Advanced Tether Experiment, which is to use four
miles of Spectra 1000-reinforced tether deployed from the satellite,
will boost the agency's knowledge about how to do such things as
raising and lowering spacecraft by tethers and how to increase the
survivability of tethered space systems.

"The program has really managed in a streamlined way. We've used
commercial practices attempting to speed the development of low cost
next generation spacecraft. It's the NRO's version of better, faster,
cheaper," Schaub said.

-0-

Copyright Phillips Publishing, Inc.


News provided by COMTEX.
[!BUSINESS] [!HIGHTECH] [!INFOTECH] [!PUBLIC+COMPANIES] [!WALL+STREET]
[AIR+FORCE] [BUDGET] [COLORADO] [NEWS] [NEWSGRID] [NICKEL] [PHL] [POUND]
[RESEARCH] [TECHNOLOGY] [WAR]


--
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a
prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------





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--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 12:21:08 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: hurricanes and digital commerce and financial cryptography
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


X-Sender: rodney@module-one.tillerman.nu
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 07:32:20 -0400
To: dcsb@ai.mit.edu
From: Rodney Thayer 
Subject: hurricanes and digital commerce and financial cryptography
Mime-Version: 1.0
Sender: bounce-dcsb@ai.mit.edu
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: Rodney Thayer 
Status: U

Ok, Anguilla has had it's liter of rainwater worth
of fame from this damn hurricane.  Time for South Florida.
So, ahem,...

It's Thursday and there's a hurricane coming.

There's plenty of beer in the starboard refrigerator and plenty
of frozen White Castle hamburgers in the port refrigerator.
The gas generator is all set to keep the server and the notebook
PC battery chargers running.  The local badly run telephone monopoly
claims it can keep the telephone network up, we'll see if they are
telling the truth when there's a foot of water on the road.

In spit of the crypto-refugee claims, there's plenty of crypto
work here, and this 'offshore' location is only about 100 feet
from the mainland so it's not actually exporting code when I
drive back to the office from the local computer store with the
PC in my car.

Here's my commerce question.  How often do people expect to cycle
private keys from PKI systems?  I mean, suppose you have a web
server, or an IPSec router, or some related device.  I would
assume you'd actually generate a new key pair every time you
get a new certificate.  So, for example, if you get a new
certificate every six months for a web server, you would use
a new private key.

It turns out there is some debate over this.  Some people assume
the private key lives essentially forever, and that you'd simply
get a new certificate against the same old key pair.  I myself
think this is rock stupid because one of the threat models is
that the private key gets stolen, and the longer it's used the
longer it's stealable.

This relates to hurricanes.

If you know any IPSec-aware routers, or any secure web servers,
or any other PKI-based devices, and they are in the Florida Keys,
you had better assume they'll need new key pairs as of some time Sunday.
You see, unless I've missed the "waterproofing" requirements in
FIPS 140 (the government security hardware standard), then those
boxes will all be under water and will require replacement.  So any
of these PKI Service Provider models that assume the private key is
immortal are about to be proven wrong.  And there better be something
in your revocation procedure for "the private key was destroyed by
an act of nature".  Look that up in your CPS and your Digital Signature
legislation.

But I need to go prepare, it's supposed to start getting exciting here
in Clearwater, some time today.

[I pass the torch to some DCSB subscriber in the New Orleans area...]

--------
Rodney Thayer 

"layer of sand separate transmitted and received packets".
(with apologies to Keith Law son.)


For help on using this list (especially unsubscribing), send a message to
"dcsb-request@ai.mit.edu" with one line of text: "help".

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 14:09:39 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Crisis in the Burg: the 100GB Bug
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Resent-Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 14:47:22 -0400
X-Authentication-Warning: qnx.com: localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO
protocol
To: 0xdeadbeef@substance.abuse.blackdown.org
Subject: Crisis in the Burg: the 100GB Bug
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 14:29:38 -0400
From: glen mccready 
Resent-From: 0xdeadbeef@substance.abuse.blackdown.org
X-Mailing-List: <0xdeadbeef@substance.abuse.blackdown.org> archive/latest/212
X-Loop: 0xdeadbeef@substance.abuse.blackdown.org
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: 0xdeadbeef-request@substance.abuse.blackdown.org


Forwarded-by: nev@bostic.com
Forwarded-by: Dave Del Torto 
Forwarded-by: Victor Milan, FBNS
Forwarded-By: Charles Reuben 

EXPERTS WARN OF THREAT FROM 100GB BUG

Firebringer News Service (FBNS) - Experts warned today of a new and deadly
threat to our beleaguered civilization: the 100GB Bug.

As most people know, McDonald's restaurant signs show the number of
hamburgers the giant chain has sold. That number now stands at 99 billion
burgers, or 99 Gigaburgers (GB). Within months or even weeks, that number
will roll over to 100GB.

McDonald's signs, however, were designed years ago, when the prospect of
selling one hundred billion hamburgers seemed unthinkably remote. So the
signs have only two decimal places.

This means that, after the sale of the 100 billionth burger, McDonald's
signs will read "00 Billion Burgers Sold." This, experts predict, will
convince the public that, in over thirty years, no McDonald's hamburgers
have ever in fact been sold, causing a complete collapse of consumer
confidence in McDonald's products.

The ensuing catastrophic drop in sales is seen as almost certain to force
the already-troubled company into bankruptcy. This, in turn, will push
the teetering American economy over the brink, which, finally, will
complete the total devastation of the global economy, ending civilization
as we know it, and forcing us all to live on beetles.

"The people who know -- the sign-makers -- are really scared of 100GB,"
one expert said. "I don't know about you, but I'm digging up a copy of
THE FIELD GUIDE TO NORTH AMERICAN INSECTS and heading for the hills."

###

reported by Victor Milan, FBNS
forward freely, please attribute

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Jean-Francois Avon" 
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 22:17:09 +0800
To: "Me Michel Kelly-Gagnon" 
Subject: Waste of money.
Message-ID: <199809250306.XAA28614@cti06.citenet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



====== forwarded from Canadian Firearms Digest, V2 # 605 ==========
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 10:22:34 -0600
From: "David BREWERTON" 
Subject: FedUp II rally

To the Editor, Halifax Herald:
Regarding your "Sticking to their guns" article. I would like to correct
a few inaccuracies in your piece.
1> "..to join about 8,000 others at the Fed Up II Rally.." - the RCMP
estimate was 30,000 people, one of the largest if not THE largest rally
ever on Parliament Hill.

2>"The new law, Bill C-68, will come into effect on Dec. 1, two months
after it was first scheduled to be implemented." NO, this is the FIFTH
extension of it's implementation date, now totalling three years.

3>"Ms. McLellan said the delay was at the request of Ontario law     
enforcement officials and not due to problems with the federal       
government's new system." FALSE, only 8 days before the law was
scheduled to go into effect, gun dealers and Police departments still do
not have the information on how to comply with the law. Confirm this
with the Provincial Firearms Officers - they don't have the information
yet. The fault is Federal. I asked gun dealers here and confirmed this
with them, they still have nothing from the Federal government.

4>"Ms. McLellan said the program is still expected to cost about $185
million over the first five years" NO, they've already spent $135
million (that they'll acknowledge) THIS YEAR ALONE, and $250+ million so
far in 3 years before registering a single firearm and they claim $60
million annually to run it. That's impossible since the current handgun
registration system costs just under $100 per gun to register and with
estimates (RCMP) of up to 25 million guns in Canada, that's $2.5 BILLION
to do the job. Add to that the $200 million the Canadian Police
Association must have to upgrade it's computer system to use the data
from this system, the price is now somewhere around $3 Billion. That
would help a lot of Hep-C victims and cancer patients.

5>"The minister also denied the government has a secret agenda to 
confiscate everyone's guns and use the registry to let the police know
where to find firearms." False, since the goverment has already
announced that they're turning 58% of the legitimately owned handguns in
Canada into prohibited firearms and confiscating them without
compensation. (Also illegal under the Charter of Rights) As for the
Police access to the information - that was the main selling point by
the Liberals to get the Canadian Police Chiefs to agree to support it.
They were to have this information before going into a house to be
prepared for any eventuality. They've now been informed that the system
won't give them that information. The support of main line Police
officers doesn't exist either. 85-91% of officers surveyed in several
provinces (where their leaders would allow the survey to be done) say
that they don't support the law.


Please, lets keep the facts straight on this. There are 7 million people
in this country who own firearms (RCMP estimates) and they're all voters
and taxpayers. The utter waste of some $3 Billion on something with
early estimates of a minimum 50% error rate (from the Ministers Select
group of firearms experts) that will do nothing to combat crime since
criminals won't register their guns and 90% of firearms crime (RCMP
figures) is done with unregistered handguns which have had mandatory
registration since 1934, cannot be tolerated. The NFA put together a
system of firearm owner licensing some 30 years ago that would take care
of most of what the government theoretically wants to accomplish with a
very low cost. They refuse to consider it. The existing handgun registry
has an estimated 30-45% error rate and even the courts refuse to accept
data from it in court since it's so inaccurate. 
The Federal government can't even get their figures straight, since
their numbers don't match either the RCMP or StatsCan figures for crime
rates. They were caught inflating RCMP crime figures by 900% to
strengthen their case in the Alberta Court of Appeal. They used the
argument that even if a firearm was present at a location (locked in a
gun safe and not involved in the crime) then it was a firearm crime.
That's like saying that if there's a domestic dispute in a home and
there's a car in the driveway then it's an automobile accident. That
doesn't wash with me, I don't know about you.
Please, lets keep the facts straight so that your readers can make an
accurate assessment of the news, not a distorted one.









From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 16:02:03 +0800
To: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 2:31 AM -0500 9/24/98, Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote:
>From: believer@telepath.com
>Subject: IP: Privacy: FTC Losing Patience w/Business
>Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 07:33:09 -0500
>To: believer@telepath.com
>
>Source:  New York Times
>http://www.nytimes.com/library/tech/98/09/biztech/articles/21privacy.html
>
>September 21, 1998
>
>F.T.C. 'Losing Patience' With Business on
>A site called Soccer Patch (www.soccerpatch.com) is a trading post for
>soccer-playing children who want to trade team patches. It lists the names,
>e-mail addresses and in some cases the hometowns of children who want to
>trade patches. That is a red flag for F.T.C. enforcers. They worry that
>child molesters can use the information to find victims.

	Since when is it the job of the F.T.C worry about child molesters?

--
petro@playboy.com----for work related issues. I don't speak for Playboy.
petro@bounty.org-----for everthing else.      They wouldn't like that.
                                              They REALLY
Economic speech IS political speech.          wouldn't like that.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Albert P. Franco, II" 
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 10:00:10 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: Re: Stego-empty hard drives... (fwd)
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980924170248.006b469c@pop.ctv.es>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> Don't most memory scans do a keyscan anyway? looking for an ESC to 
>bypass the scan? So have it also check for something else to bring up 
>your special routine. It should pass all but the most detailed signature 
>analysis.
>

Also most BIOS'es scan for the  key (or other combinations) in order
to jump to the BIOS config screens. From here you have two options: 1) add
a second possible jump directly to hidden configuration for the HD, or 2)
within the Bios configuration menu add a scanner for a key sequence to
enable the blacked out HD sectors.

I can't imagine that anyone that wasn't already sure that you were playing
tricks with the HD would be able to detect either of these on a normal
startup. Again I think the key is that it would vastly expensive and very
time consuming for customs services to make more than a cursory check. More
and more people are carrying notebooks with them on trips and just like
most bag searching has ended due to very fast, but not perfect, technology,
notebook scanning is limited by the very important public factor--the
people waiting in line behind you will tend to get very anxious. :)

If on the other hand you are a "real" suspect then you best bet is not to
carry a PC into these countries. These techniques (all of the ones
mentioned in this thread) may even have a decent life-span if the ones that
want to get you are locals (ie. street cops), but as has been pointed out
before they don't have to know what's on your HD to place you under
psychiatric evaluation, etc. 

I think perhaps a tougher question is, "Is there a way, without resorting
to bloodshed, to regain control of our private property and private lives?"

That's not a troll! I know that there are a lot people on this list with
their assault rifles at the ready, that are convinced that only armed
resistance will work. But. I think that's the "easy" way out. (How) can it
be done another way? Especially, given the fact that so much progress has
already been made by the very Anti-American US Government and others.

How do we get back our civil rights that have been so eroded over the past
40 years? Is it too late? Are people in general so comfortable that liberty
isn't important anymore? 

Why is it that almost every state has a system for introducing legislation
at the popular level (referendum) but we don't have that freedom at the fed
level.  I wonder what the feds would do if we the sheeple could put
propositions on the federal budget. Imagine...Prop PGP: no export control
on crypto or work performed by US citizens living abroad; Prop 666: strict
public oversight on CIA/NSA/FBI wiretapping and surveillance activities;
add your favorite proposition here...

eor..

Al Franco, II
I can't sign this with crypto because the bastards might use it to try to
"prove" that I have illegally exported software (that can be freely
obtained in places outside the US). 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 19:22:08 +0800
To: sjmz@hplb.hpl.hp.com
Subject: salman rushdie
Message-ID: <360ADE95.4B33@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

dave
---
ABQ J 9/24/98 
Iran May Withdraw
Writer's Death Threat

LONDON - Author Salman
Rushdie met with British Foreign
Office officials Wednesday amid
reports Iran is preparing to
withdraw the threat on his life.
The late Ayatollah Ruhollah
Khomeini pronounced a "fatwa," death sentence, 
against Rushdie in
1989 after the publication of his
book "Satanic Verses," which many
Muslims deemed blasphemous.
Islamic militants then put a $2
million bounty on Rushdie's head,
forcing the author to live largely in
under British police protection.
---

I THINK that I heard tonight and saw 
Rushie's picture on TV that the above
was called off.

Progress.

I am reading again your stuff at
http://www.jya.com/filth-spot.htm

Let's all hope for release of the requested documents
and SETTLEMENT.

bill

Title: Black and White Test of Cryptographic Algorithms




	

	
		
			
				
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Rabid Wombat 
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 13:38:06 +0800
To: Blanc 
Subject: Re: Is Toto in Kansas, or in MO
In-Reply-To: <000401bde8e0$2dd516e0$388195cf@blanc>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





On Fri, 25 Sep 1998, Blanc wrote:

> 
> Who said this, "Toto":
> 
>    	"A long time ago, being crazy meant something.
>   	"Now, everybody's crazy."
> 
>     ?

Charles Manson.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "James A. Donald" 
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 22:17:09 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Jury duty considered harmful, or at least rare
In-Reply-To: <199809240225.TAA21955@proxy4.ba.best.com>
Message-ID: <199809250319.UAA07944@proxy4.ba.best.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



    --
At 9:12 PM -0500 9/23/98, James A. Donald wrote:
> > To rig a jury by excluding undesirables such as Tim May
> > would be far too laborious.  To rig a jury it would be
> > necessary to

At 09:52 AM 9/24/98 -0500, Petro wrote:
> No, no, On the contrary, far too easy.
>
> There are certain people who are NEVER called to jury duty,
> people convicted of felonies & etc. simply put the name of
> an undesirable on this list, 

The number of identifiable undesirables is too small to
guarantee the desired trial outcome.  To ensure a desired
outcome it would be necessary to screen out a very large
number of potential undesirables.  It would be much easier to
screen in a small number of desirables.

> > and simple statistics would show this up.

> If anyone were to look.

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     M+t9fZl1uB+ChARqSR+DFzmoEJWNgr/rn5RGHaZA
     4/GeYPAq0AtkguzZ+40UycomDZMeuRMUpYyjzWHDJ

-----------------------------------------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because 
of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this 
right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.


http://www.jim.com/jamesd/      James A. Donald




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 22:25:26 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: National ID
Message-ID: <199809250327.UAA03872@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: Larry Becraft 
Subject: IP: National ID
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 17:17:56 -0500
To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com

To Whom It May Concern,

    Lots of people are interested in fighting the national ID and lots
of info and even suggested letters to object to the proposed regulation
are posted to Scott McDonald's webpage which is accessed thru:

                        http://www.networkusa.org/index.shtml

Also attached to this note is my letter of objection which you may
personalize and send to the DoT. This letter was the 4th objection
submitted to the DoT.

    The reason I write now is because we have only about another week
(Oct. 2) to get in more objections to this regulation. I have just
visited the DoT webpage and found that there are about 2100 objections.
We need many more. The DoT webpage lists all the people who have
submitted objections and I have read the names of every objector.
Remarkably, many of the people that I thought would submit an objection
have not. If you have not, please do so immediately.

    If you don't object to this regulation, then I suggest keeping your
mouth shut if this reg is adopted. Please, it should not take very long
for you to personalize the attached letter and send it in. Thanks very
much.

                                        Larry Becraft



Attachment Converted: "c:\eudora\attach\FedRegObjection.rtf"






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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 22:25:42 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Y2K Horror Stories a Foretaste of Breakdowns to Come
Message-ID: <199809250327.UAA03883@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Y2K Horror Stories a Foretaste of Breakdowns to Come
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 23:08:03 -0500
To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com

Source:  http://www.garynorth.com/y2k/detail_.cfm/2665

Category: Noncompliant_Chips
Date: 1998-09-23 11:10:48
Subject: Horror Stories That Are a Foretaste of Breakdowns to Come
Link:  http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=000AUk

Comment: 

This document speaks for itself. Mutiply this through every institution
that uses embedded systems. 

There is a lesson here. Any time anyone tells you, "This will work. No
problem," ask him to demonstrate how it will work with no problem. 

Companies are just like governments. They stonewall. They pretend. They
lie. Mainly, when caught, they lie. "I did not have noncompliance with that
product!" 

This was especially interesting: 

"Nearly a month after I sent email to two different year 2000 addresses at
the company, I received a phone call from the company. The caller described
herself as a liaison with technical support and admitted to having no
technical knowledge of the instrument. She said that their legal department
would only allow verbal communication in this matter. She was prohibited
from replying by email or written communication. 

"She said the embedded systems 'could be a problem' if new firmware wasn't
installed. When questioned, she admitted that new firmware was not
available and she did not know when it would be." 

Substitute the term "Western civilization" for "new firmware." 

* * * * * * * * * * * 

I am an analytical chemist specializing in inductively coupled plasma
atomic emission spectroscopy (ICP-AES). ICP-AES is a method used to
determine trace amounts of metals in solutions in the part per million and
part per billion range. 

I am responsible for two spectrometers each of which cost approximately
$130,000. Both instruments contain embedded microprocessor systems that are
in turn controlled by external computers. 

The first uses a PDP-11/53 for the external computer. It is running the
instrument control software under RT-11 and TSX-Plus. No hardware real time
clock exists in the system. This version of RT-11 only accepts 1979 to
1999 as valid years for the system clock. There is no 2000 or 00. If left
powered up, the system clock rolls over from 99 to 100. The file system is
not designed to handle dates outside of the 79 to 99 range. A compliant
version of RT-11 has just become available, but the manufacturer of the
instrument says this won't help with problems in the instrument control
software. We have been told that the software will "crash and burn" when hit
with year 2000.  

The instrument was manufactured in 1988 and the software is no longer
supported by the company. In fact, the company no longer employs anyone who
worked on the Fortran source. The company's solution is to replace the
PDP-11 with a PC and purchase a $6000 software package that runs under
Windows. If we did this, we would no longer be able to use the quality
control and data transfer programs we have written for the current system.
We would also have several weeks of down time while entering our current
analytical methods into the new system. My experience with a beta version
of the PC software leads me to believe productivity would suffer in the end.  

The second instrument was controlled with a DEC 466 (486-66) running
instrument control software under SCO-UNIX System V/386 Release 3.2. This
system became very confused after the real time clock (RTC) was set to
12/31/99. 

Allowing the clock to roll over with the power off gave a RTC date of 1900.
On boot up, Unix said the system year was 2000. However, the instrument
software reported the current date as 01/01/10 and the RTC was reset to 1970. 

With the RTC set to 2000, the instrument software still reported the date
as 01/01/10, but now the RTC was reset to 2070. On the next boot up, Unix
would report the system date as 1970. At any time, typing in 000101 in the
yymmdd field on boot up resulted in the RTC being reset to 1970. SCO has a
patch for the operating system, but again this would not solve problems in
the instrument control software. 

In this case, we have replaced the 486 with a Y2k compliant Pentium 300 and
installed instrument control software that runs under Windows 95. The
manufacturer no longer supports the software that ran under Unix. The
instrument is two years old. 

Inside the instrument are two embedded 68000 microprocessor systems with
real time clocks. Access to the clocks requires a program normally supplied
only to service technicians. Execution of that program requires a
password. The real time clocks can run without external power for up to ten
years on internal lithium batteries. 

One function of the clocks is to insure the proper start-up sequence is
followed after shutdowns of different lengths (hot or cold start).
Extensive damage could be caused by an error in the control of heating,
cooling, or
gas flow systems. The clocks are also used in the monitoring of safety
interlocks and sensors. Both clocks rollover from 1999 to 1900 and can not
be set to 2000. The clocks also count off the days of the week. I am
reluctant to extensively test the system myself because of the possibility
of damage. 

When I first talked to technical support about my concerns, the technician
pulled out a copy of the year 2000 compliance certificate for the new
software and read it over. He then stated: "This certification only covers the
software - not the *instrument*." This instrument and software is being
sold as the company's year 2000 solution to replace almost all earlier
systems.  

My next contact was with a different technician who was in the lab to
repair an electronic problem in the instrument. He told me: "Don't worry,
we use four digit dates." I asked him to demonstrate setting the clocks
ahead. He ran the program on the main computer and it allowed him to type
the year 2000 on the entry screen. He then executed the command to send the
date to the embedded system. There were no error messages. He gave me a
look that implied "I told you so". I then asked him to read back the
current time from the clock he just set. He was visibly startled when he
saw 1900 appear on the screen. He said he would have one of their experts
call me.  

A few days later I heard from the "expert" who tried to reassure me with
phrases like "they're just timers" and "the instrument doesn't _need_ to
know what day it is". However, since he didn't seem to have a mastery of
what the clocks actually do, I wasn't reassured. For example: I can put the
instrument into standby (sleep mode) over the weekend with instructions to
be ready to operate at 8:00 AM Monday. This will conserve gases (nitrogen
and argon) and reduce power needs. 73 minutes before the assigned ready
time, the embedded systems will query the main computer for start-up
instructions. If the main system is running, it takes control of the
sequence. If the main system is off, the embedded systems will look for it
for 10 minutes and then independently begin the start-up sequence in the
instrument EPROM. The "expert" didn't seem to have even this depth of
knowledge of the system.  

Nearly a month after I sent email to two different year 2000 addresses at
the company, I received a phone call from the company. The caller described
herself as a liaison with technical support and admitted to having no
technical knowledge of the instrument. She said that their legal department
would only allow verbal communication in this matter. She was prohibited
from replying by email or written communication. 

She said the embedded systems "could be a problem" if new firmware wasn't
installed. When questioned, she admitted that new firmware was not
available and she did not know when it would be. 

She also said that the clocks were used for the "wake up" procedure and not
used for anything else. Since she had no knowledge of the instrument, there
was no point in asking about system error (SYSERROR) message 75 described
in the appendix of the manual: 

75 Real-Time Clock. Call Service. 

The real-time clock, used to monitor the status of interlocks (and
sensors), is not functioning. This will not shut down the system; however,
a XXXXXXXX service engineer should be contacted. 

"This will not shut down the system" means I can start up a sustained
10,000 degree plasma in a confined space with uncertainty as to whether the
interlocks and sensors will detect a malfunction. 

It's my belief that in thinking about embedded systems, this company has
been in "sleep mode". I may have been the first to sound a "wake up" alarm
about this instrument. Now they have to muster the people and resources to
re-write the programs stored in the EPROM's, produce new chips, and install
them in hundreds of instruments around the world. I should also mention
that this is only one instrument in a large product line that has other Y2k
problems. Will they get them all done? On time? I don't think they know. 

 Link: http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=000AUk 
----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------






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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 22:26:43 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: NSA listening practices called European`threat'
Message-ID: <199809250327.UAA03893@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: NSA listening practices called European`threat'
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 14:54:05 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  Baltimore Sun
http://www.sunspot.net/cgi-bin/editorial/story.cgi?storyid=900000194001

NSA listening practices called European`threat'
European Parliament report accuses agency of widespread spying 

By Neal Thompson 
Sun Staff

The National Security Agency has incurred the wrath of some U.S.
allies and triggered debate about increased global eavesdropping,
thanks to a new report that accuses the agency of spying on
European citizens and companies.

With the help of a listening post in the moors of northern England,
NSA for nearly a decade has been snatching Europe's electronic
communications signals, according to a report for the European
Parliament.

"Within Europe, all e-mail, telephone and fax communications are
routinely intercepted by the United States National Security Agency,
transferring all target information to Fort Meade," said the report.

`Powerful threat'

It warned that the NSA's tactics represent a "powerful threat to civil
liberties in Europe" at a time when more communication -- and
commerce -- is conducted electronically.

A preliminary version of the report circulated overseas in recent
months, touching off heated debate, with front-page stories in Italy,
France, Scotland, England, Belgium and even Russia.

The NSA won't discuss the report or even admit that the listening
post exists.

But this week, two days of debate in the European Parliament
continued the extraordinary public disclosure of comprehensive
post-Cold War spying by the agency. On Wednesday, the
Parliament passed a resolution seeking more accountability from such
eavesdropping arrangements and more assurances that they won't be
misused.

"We want to make sure that somebody's watching them," said Glyn
Ford, a British member of the European Parliament, the legislative
body for the 15-member European Union.

Observers say this was the first time a governmental body has
described in detail -- and then criticized -- the NSA's tactics.

"The cat's well and true out of the bag," said Simon Davies, director
of the London-based watchdog group Privacy International. "I would
argue that we have made the grandest step in 50 years toward
accountability of such national security transparencies."

The report describes a sophisticated program called Echelon, which
the NSA established in conjunction with British intelligence agencies.
The program includes a listening post in Menwith Hill, in Yorkshire,
whose satellite dishes soak up the satellite and microwave
transmissions carrying Europe's telephone conversations, faxes and
e-mail.

Unlike Cold War spying aimed at the military, Echelon is a global
electronic surveillance system that targets individuals, businesses,
governments and organizations, the report says.

The U.S. shares the information with Britain, Canada, Australia and
New Zealand as part of an intelligence-sharing agreement called
UKUSA. Each nation has its own set of key words, so it can seek
information on specific issues, the report states.

Europe is but a fraction of Echelon's target area -- and the Menwith
Hill post is one of at least 10 around the world, the report adds.

"One reason its a bigger deal over there than it is over here [in the
U.S.] is because the SIGINT [signals intelligence] systems are over
their heads and not our heads," said Jeffrey Richelson, an analyst
with the National Security Archives, a U.S. group seeking to
declassify intelligence related documents.

Echelon repercussions

But the disclosure of Echelon could soon resonate across the Atlantic
after the European Parliament action. Furthermore, it could
complicate current negotiations between the U.S. and the European
Union over encryption programs that scramble or encode computer
information, said Parliament member Ford.

The U.S. has been lobbying for back-door access to such codes for
security reasons.

Originally published on Sep 19 1998
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 22:26:43 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Funny Money: New $20 FRNs are here
Message-ID: <199809250327.UAA03904@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Funny Money: New $20 FRNs are here
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 17:05:38 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  US Newswire
http://www.usnewswire.com/topnews/Current_Releases/0924-109.txt

U.S. Treasury, Federal Reserve Issue New $20 Note 
U.S. Newswire
24 Sep 10:45

 U.S. Treasury, Federal Reserve Issue New $20 Note
 To: National and Financial Desks
 Contact: Hamilton Dix of the U.S. Department of the Treasury,
          202-622-2960, or
          Bob Moore of the Federal Reserve,
          202-452-3215

   WASHINGTON, Sept. 24 /U.S. Newswire/ -- Treasury Secretary Robert
E. Rubin and Federal Reserve Board Chairman Alan Greenspan today
announced the issuance of the redesigned $20 note, which includes new
and modified security features to deter counterfeiting of U.S.
currency.

   Rubin and U.S. Treasurer Mary Ellen Withrow marked the
issuance of the new notes in a ceremony at Treasury's Cash Room in
Washington, D.C. More than two dozen regional events hosted by
Federal Reserve banks and branches and major retailers were also
conducted around the country.

   "We have introduced a series of features that greatly raise the
hurdle for counterfeiters," Rubin said. "Together these features
amount to a formidable tool, and make spotting a counterfeit
note easier than ever. For them to be effective, it is important that
people stop for a moment to look for the new features."

   The new $20 will replace older notes gradually, and older series
$20 notes still in good condition will be recirculated. About
$83 billion worth of $20 notes is currently in circulation, 80
percent of those in the U.S. More than $450 billion worth of
U.S. currency circulates around the globe.

   The Series 1996 $20 note is the third U.S. currency note to be
redesigned to include new and modified security features. New $10 and
$5 notes are expected to be issued simultaneously in 2000, and a new
$1 note with a more modest redesign will follow.

   "We are confident that the introduction of this third redesigned
note will be as smooth as that of the $100 and $50 notes," Chairman
Greenspan said. "Older notes will not be recalled or devalued. All
existing notes will continue to be legal tender."

   Like the Series 1996 $100 and $50 notes introduced since 1996, the
new $20 note has a familiar appearance. The size, color and
historical subjects have not changed. It also incorporates several
security features that have proved effective against would-be
counterfeiters: a watermark; enhanced security thread; fine-line
printing patterns; color-shifting ink; and a larger, off-center
portrait that is the most noticeable change in the overall
architecture of the note. There are also two features for the blind
and visually impaired. The new $20 note includes a capability that
will allow the development of technology to help the blind ascertain
the denomination of their currency. In addition, the $20 and $50
notes have a large numeral on the back that make the notes easier for
millions of Americans with low vision to read.

   The continuing introduction of redesigned notes is a critical
component of the Federal government's anti-counterfeiting effort.
The new series aims to maintain the security of the nation's currency
as computerized reprographic technologies such as color copiers,
scanners and printers become more sophisticated and more readily
available. The $20 note is the most frequently counterfeited note in
the United States.

   Since the $20 note is so widely used in daily commerce and most
frequently dispensed by ATMs, broad nationwide recognition of the new
note when it is introduced will minimize apprehension on the part of
the public. A public education campaign now underway encourages the
public and people who handle cash every day to become familiar with
the design and security features of the new notes. Retailers and
financial institutions are educating their employees and customers by
sending posters to their outlets, training cashiers, offering
pamphlets to the public, and including information about the new note
in advertising circulars and on shopping bags. More than 100
constituency organizations have helped reach small business owners,
loss prevention managers, visually impaired and older Americans, and
others with a stake in the new note's introduction. U.S. embassies
and consulates are using materials translated into 15 languages to
conduct localized education outreach to ensure that local users of
U.S. currency as well as financial institutions are prepared for the
issuance of the new note.

   Fact sheets on the new note, the history of U.S. currency and
related agencies are available at http://www.moneyfactory.com.

 -0-
 /U.S. Newswire  202-347-2770/
 09/24 10:45

Copyright 1998, U.S. Newswire
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




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To subscribe or unsubscribe, email:
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**********************************************
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**********************************************




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 13:52:45 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199809241854.UAA27801@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Just heard a tape of one of his radio appearences from Aug 1998. I'm not a
huge fan of country/filk music, but CJ is actually quite good. He
apparently wants a "Silly Horses In Trees" song on it to be passed along
to cypherpunks... --Declan






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 21:55:20 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Test [No Reply]
Message-ID: <199809250323.WAA17403@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Test [No Reply]




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 19:15:34 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199809250013.CAA24949@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 10:38 AM 9/23/98 -0500, Jim Choate wrote:
>
>It becomes possible to scan for sureptitous clock devices (their tick, tick,
>tick in the EM), mod'ed hardware, and software.
>
>Follow this with a gas spectrograph and a x-ray and you'd have the vast
>majority of bases covered.

"Ummmm...I left my laptop in a room full of Canadian snowboarders...dude"












  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 19:24:36 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199809250013.CAA24957@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



GOD'S TOTAL QUALITY MANAGEMENT QUESTIONNAIRE

God would like to thank you for your belief and patronage. In order to
better serve your needs, God asks that you take a few moments to answer the
following questions.

Please keep in mind that your responses will be kept completely
confidential, and that you need not disclose your name or address unless
you prefer a direct response to comments or suggestions.

1. How did you find out about your deity?
__ Newspaper
__ Bible
__ Torah
__ Television
__ Book of Mormon
__ Divine Inspiration
__ Dead Sea Scrolls
__ My Mama Done Tol' Me
__ Near Death Experience
__ Near Life Experience
__ National Public Radio
__ Tabloid
__ Burning Shrubbery
__ Other (specify): _____________

2. Which model deity did you acquire?
__ Yahweh
__ Father, Son & Holy Ghost [Trinity Pak]
__ Jehovah
__ Jesus
__ Krishna
__ Zeus and entourage [Olympus Pak]
__ Odin and entourage [Valhalla Pak]
__ Allah
__ Satan
__ Gaia/Mother Earth/Mother Nature
__ None of the above, I was taken in by a false god

3. Did your God come to you undamaged, with all parts in good working order
and with no obvious breakage or missing attributes?
__ Yes __ No
If no, please describe the problems you initially encountered here. Please
indicate all that apply:
__ Not eternal
__ Finite in space/Does not occupy or inhabit the entire cosmos
__ Not omniscient
__ Not omnipotent
__ Not infinitely plastic (incapable of being all things to all creations)
__ Permits sex outside of marriage
__ Prohibits sex outside of marriage
__ Makes mistakes (Geraldo Rivera; Michael Jackson)
__ Makes or permits bad things to happen to good people
__ When beseeched, does not stay beseeched
__ Requires burnt offerings
__ Requires virgin sacrifices

4. What factors were relevant in your decision to acquire a deity? Please
check all that apply.
__ Indoctrinated by parents
__ Needed a reason to live
__ Indoctrinated by society
__ Needed focus in whom to despise
__ Imaginary friend grew up
__ Wanted to know Jesus in the Biblical sense
__ Hate to think for myself
__ Wanted to meet girls/boys
__ Fear of death
__ Wanted to piss off parents
__ Needed a day away from work
__ Desperate need for certainty
__ Like Organ Music
__ Need to feel Morally Superior
__ Thought Jerry Falwell was cool
__ Shit was falling out of the sky
__ My shrubbery caught fire and a loud voice commanded me to do it

5. Have you ever worshipped a deity before? Is so, which false god were you
fooled by? Please check all that apply.
__ Mick Jagger
__ Cthulhu
__ Baal
__ The Almighty Dollar
__ Bill Gates
__ Left Wing Liberalism
__ The Radical Right
__ Ra
__ Beelzebub
__ Barney T.B.P.D.
__ The Great Spirit
__ The Great Pumpkin
__ The Sun
__ Elvis
__ Cindy Crawford
__ The Moon
__ A burning shrubbery
__ Other: ________________

6. Are you currently using any other source of inspiration in addition to God?
Please check all that apply.
__ Tarot
__ Lottery
__ Astrology
__ Television
__ Fortune cookies
__ Ann Landers
__ Psychic Friends Network
__ Dianetics

__ Palmistry
__ Playboy and/or Playgirl
__ Self-help books
__ Sex, Drugs, Rock and Roll

__ Biorhythms
__ Alcohol
__ Bill Clinton
__ Tea Leaves
__ EST
__ The Internet
__ Mantras
__ Jimmy Swaggert
__ Crystals (not including Crystal Gayle)
__ Human Sacrifice
__ Pyramids
__ Wandering around a desert
__ Insurance policies
__ Burning Shrubbery
__ Barney T.B.P.D.
__ Teletubbies
__ Other:_____________________
__ None

7. God employs a limited degree of Divine Intervention to preserve the
balanced level of felt presence and blind faith.
Which would you prefer (circle one)?
a. More Divine Intervention
b. Less Divine Intervention
c. Current level of Divine Intervention is just right
d. Don't know...what's Divine Intervention?

8. God also attempts to maintain a balanced level of disasters and miracles.
Please rate on a scale of 1 - 5 his handling of the following:
(1=unsatisfactory, 5=excellent):
A. Disasters:
flood 1 2 3 4 5
famine 1 2 3 4 5
earthquake 1 2 3 4 5
war 1 2 3 4 5
pestilence 1 2 3 4 5
plague 1 2 3 4 5
SPAM 1 2 3 4 5
AOL 1 2 3 4 5

b. Miracles:
rescues 1 2 3 4 5
spontaneous remissions 1 2 3 4 5
stars hovering over jerkwater towns 1 2 3 4 5
crying statues 1 2 3 4 5
water changing to wine 1 2 3 4 5
walking on water 1 2 3 4 5
VCRs that set their own clocks 1 2 3 4 5
Saddam Hussein still alive 1 2 3 4 5
getting any sex whatsoever 1 2 3 4 5

9. Do you have any additional comments or suggestions for improving the
quality of God's services? (Attach an additional sheet if necessary):

If you are able to complete the questionnaire and return it to one of Our
conveniently located drop-off boxes by July 30 you will be entered in The
One Free Miracle of Your Choice drawing (chances of winning are
approximately one in 6.023 x 10 to the 23rd power, depending on number of
beings entered).

Thank You,
Daryl
Clerk of the Supreme Being of the Apocalypse







  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 19:13:01 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199809250013.CAA24987@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 01:54 AM 9/24/98 -0000, Anonymous wrote:
>There is an inherent flaw in the jury system. You get summoned and are
>legally required to blow the entire day down at the courthouse. If you're
>a student you miss classes, and if you have a job you miss that too. You
>have to pay for transportation, parking, food, and whatever else you need. 
>In return, you get paid something like $3, which often isn't even enough
>to cover the parking and get told every five minutes that this or that
>will get you, as a juror or potential juror, thrown in jail.

Basically this is unconstitutional seizure of your time = money.
This is slavery, which is prohibited, again by that pesky constitution.

The postal service sends datagrams; they are not acknowledged.

But you can't subvert if you don't participate.








  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 19:11:56 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199809250014.CAA25085@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 07:01 AM 9/23/98 -0500, Bruce Schneier wrote:
>
>Sorry.  I am under NDA.  

Be sure to drink plenty of fluids and get
plenty of rest afterwards; that stuff
wears you out ;-)








  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 21:14:58 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Jury duty considered harmful, or at least rare
Message-ID: <199809250216.EAA02681@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Tue, 22 Sep 1998, Rabid Wombat wrote:

> On 24 Sep 1998, Anonymous wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, 23 Sep 1998, Tim May wrote:
> > 
> > > 
> > > At 11:11 PM -0700 9/22/98, Bill Stewart wrote:
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > If they do have a list, I'd kind of like to be on it. I'm a college
> > student, and I _can't_ serve on a jury for more than a day or so. The same
> > goes for doctors, corporate executives, and others.
> > 
> 
> Yeah, right. I *never* blew off class to go to the beach. I never go to
> "meetings" on the golf course, either. Glad to hear the only people with
> important places to be are doctors, executives, and college students. 

Maybe you skipped class all the time. Maybe you didn't have to compete to
get into a competitive graduate school or graduate from that school. Maybe
you hold your "meetings" on the golf course and cheat your company. I
don't. That isn't the point.

Glad to hear that you make a habit of blowing off class and playing golf
on company time. 

Snip. 

>  Oh, and I need
> > to still get my full salary to pay my bills. Thanks, buddy." Um, no.
> > 
> 
> The company I work for pays our salary while we are on jury duty. We have 
> to turn over the $3 a day stipend.

That's nice for people who work at your company. It won't work for a small
business where the juror own and operates it. It also won't work for a
small business owner to hire more help and still pay the juror, because
then it's cheating the owner.

The court system summons the people under penalty of law. The court system
puts them on a jury. The government isn't repealing all the bullshit
legislation. The government can pay the bills. Can't afford it? Maybe we
should redirect some of that welfare money. 

> Most defendants are guilty. That doesn't mean the one in front of you is. 
> Take traffic court as an example. How many defandants are there because
> they are innocent, and the cop was mistaken, didn't calibrate his radar,
> needed to fill his quota, etc.? A few. How many are there because they
> want a couple points knocked off the penalty, even theough they were
> speeding? Most of them. A guilty defendant is entitled to a fair trial. So
> is an innocent one.  You don't help the process by ducking jury duty (or
> are you one of the stupid people?). 

That's primarily because of all the bullshit laws and legal events we
have: drug laws, computer crime laws, frivolous lawsuits, set-ups by the
cops, ITAR/EAR, and other things along that line of thought.

The last time I was called for jury duty was back in college, where they
got me in the week of finals. Of course, they hit me on that day, so I
have to jump through all sorts of hoops and seriously piss a couple of
professors off. Nothing keeps those professors from giving somebody like
that a harder final either, under the pretense that they might have talked
to others in the class about what the questions and answers were, which
means that their grades relative to others in the class are then skewed,
but the curve is still applied to them. Repeat with similar situations for
any profession which isn't like canning at a tomato sauce plant.

How many people do you think are found guilty because 11 people in the
jury think he should be, and 1 person in the jury thinks the law shouldn't
even be there but lets it go because the other 11 people on the jury don't
understand the concept of jury nullification, they all just want to go
home and not keep losing their livelihood, it *is* the law no matter how
unconstitutional it may be, and the offense is relatively minor anyway?





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Albert P. Franco, II" 
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 21:35:23 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: From Spyking: DNA Technology
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980925043213.006a2374@pop.ctv.es>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 09:26:47 -0400
>From: Sunder 

>5) From: "Timothy Robarts"  
>Subject: DNA Technology
>
>London 16/09/98
> 
>September 16 1998
>
>Police Superintendents' Conference: Stewart Tendler on how science is
catching
>up with the criminal. 
>
>Dr Sullivan, who worked on the identification of the remains of the last
Tsar,
>Nicholas II, said that the breakthrough in taking DNA samples from dandruff
>would allow investigators to take material from the tiny particles of human
>skin that are found at every scene. He said: "People are constantly shedding
>skin cells. The majority of household dust is made up of dead skin and we
know
>we can get DNA from an individual skin cell." 
>
If human skin cells comprise the majority of household dust, and dust can
so easily move from place to place, then how will they defend against the
claim that the suspect passed near by (five blocks away) six months ago and
the dust must have slowly made it's way to the crime scene...

Don't answer...I know...truth is not the objective, rather conviction of
the target. Now they'll have the tools to do it. The same cop investigating
your car this month could inadvertently (or not) deposit a few traces of
your skin dust at the scene of a crime next month. They keep getting
scarier all the time!

Al Franco, II




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Albert P. Franco, II" 
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 21:53:49 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Stego-empty hard drives... (fwd)
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980925045548.0069dbbc@pop.ctv.es>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>From: Jim Choate 
>> From: "Albert P. Franco, II" 
>
>> I can't imagine that anyone that wasn't already sure that you were playing
>> tricks with the HD would be able to detect either of these on a normal
>> startup. Again I think the key is that it would vastly expensive and very
>> time consuming for customs services to make more than a cursory check. More
>> and more people are carrying notebooks with them on trips and just like
>> most bag searching has ended due to very fast, but not perfect, technology,
>> notebook scanning is limited by the very important public factor--the
>> people waiting in line behind you will tend to get very anxious. :)
>
>That's a rationale for doing TEMPEST scanning I hadn't thought of. Since it
>is time consuming and takes special training (which means higher personel
>budgets that don't amortise over time like hardware) to operate a floppy
>scanner and interpet the results there are budget forces involved.
>

I snipped the rest, but your point ignores that they still have to scan my
hard drive for what they are looking for. So TEMPEST on top of the other
measures just makes things slower. Also the vast variety of computers and
clock speeds on the market today would make a 30 byte (10-20 clock cycles
... )BIOS patch virtually undetectable. Again...UNLESS they want YOU in
particular. 

I would be more concerned about a Unix-like OS on their disk-following THEM
to bypass my BIOS to read the HD. Of course, perhaps another way around
this may be to carry a couple copies of an NDA and an Acceptance of
Liability for Damages Caused contract. Tell the stooge at the counter that
your machine contains highly valuable commercial information and that if
it's damaged in any way, shape or form he/she will be held personally
liable. Offer the two documents for his/her signature as you explain that
since the procedure they intend to use is so fool proof (the stooge is sure
to quote the party line...) this would only strengthen your case that
damage or discloser to/of contents must be a direct result of negligence or
criminal intent on the part of the stooge.

"If you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with bullshit." It
works for Clinton!

Al Franco, II




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 01:24:19 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199809250615.IAA18004@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Friday, September 25, 1998 - 08:08:49 MET
You know for what the acronym CLINTON stands for  ?
Call Lewinsky, I Need The Oral Now !




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 09:38:33 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: sex, lies, and videotape
In-Reply-To: <199809230415.GAA08895@replay.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 11:10 AM -0500 9/24/98, Bill Stewart wrote:

>It's not clear if this includes the picture
>of Orrin Hatch that's rumoured to be floating around Salt Lake.
>
	Gif! Gif!
--
petro@playboy.com----for work related issues. I don't speak for Playboy.
petro@bounty.org-----for everthing else.      They wouldn't like that.
                                              They REALLY
Economic speech IS political speech.          wouldn't like that.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 09:35:34 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Jury duty considered harmful, or at least rare
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 10:01 PM -0500 9/24/98, James A. Donald wrote:
>    --
>At 9:12 PM -0500 9/23/98, James A. Donald wrote:
>> > To rig a jury by excluding undesirables such as Tim May
>> > would be far too laborious.  To rig a jury it would be
>> > necessary to
>
>At 09:52 AM 9/24/98 -0500, Petro wrote:
>> No, no, On the contrary, far too easy.
>>
>> There are certain people who are NEVER called to jury duty,
>> people convicted of felonies & etc. simply put the name of
>> an undesirable on this list,
>
>The number of identifiable undesirables is too small to
>guarantee the desired trial outcome.  To ensure a desired
>outcome it would be necessary to screen out a very large
>number of potential undesirables.  It would be much easier to
>screen in a small number of desirables.

	At first yes, but over time the list could/would be grown. Also,
the list of non-criminal undersirables is _only_ those people who would
WANT to serve on the jury, but are too smart/savy/stubborn to pant at the
feet of the lawyers.
--
petro@playboy.com----for work related issues. I don't speak for Playboy.
petro@bounty.org-----for everthing else.      They wouldn't like that.
                                              They REALLY
Economic speech IS political speech.          wouldn't like that.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 09:21:10 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: EU-US Relations and Spy Satellit
Message-ID: <199809251410.KAA06539@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



http://www.europarl.eu.int/dg3/sdp/pointses/en/p980914s.htm#6

EU-US relations and spy satellite

Monday 14 September

MEPs adopted the resolution emphasising the importance of EU-US 
relations and welcoming the New Transatlantic Agenda agreed at 
the 18 May London Summit. MEPs see the agreement as a means of 
reducing potential sources of conflict between both sides but
want Congress to scrap the extra-territorial Helms-Burton and 
d'Amato Acts. The resolution recognises the importance of 
cooperation in the field of electronic surveillance for tracking 
down international criminal terrorists and drug traffickers but 
takes the view that "protective measures concerning economic 
information and effective encryption" should be taken to guard 
against abuse and threat to civil liberties posed by international
telecommunications such as the "Echelon" US system. 

-----

We were unable to find the full resolution online and would 
appreciate a pointer, or a hardcopy:

US Fax: 212-873-8700

Snail:

John Young
251 West 89th Street, Suite 6E
New York, NY 10024

No response from DoD on our request to interview Secretary
Cohen about Echelon. And despite the spate of news reports
on the recent Euro Parliament debate about it, there have been
no questions about Echelon in DoD press briefings.

Perhaps one of our esteemed journalists with Pentagon links
could follow up on the Baltimore Sun coverage.

Duncan Campbell, the first to write of Echelon in 1988, is
offering information on Menwith Hill (NSA Echelon base) 
obtained by British protestors:

   http://jya.com/en092198.htm






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Jean-Francois Avon" 
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 10:14:26 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks" 
Subject: [flames] a clueless can't see parallel between crypto-freedom and 2nd amendment...
Message-ID: <199809251459.KAA08436@cti06.citenet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

From: jf_avon@citenet.net
Date: 25 sept 98  10h57 EST
Topic: [flames] a clueless can't see parallel between crypto-freedom
and 2nd amendment...

On Fri, 25 Sep 1998 10:11:10 +0200, Hans-Juergen Wiesner wrote:

Your comment is the first and only one complaint I ever received while
posting on this subject.  OTOH, I occasionnally receive mail to either
objectively discuss the topic or to comment in a positive ways my
posts.

Beside, post to the owner-cypherpunks to your hearth content, I am
not, as of a few weeks ago, on the list.  I jump in and off depending
on my time availability.


>At 14:53 24.09.98 -0400, you wrote:
>>   ====== forwarded from Canadian Firearms Digest, V2 # 605
==========
>
>I won't comment on your somewhat distortet view on reality and your
>miserable sense of logic proven by your "arguments".

Please submit me with your valid data.  I'll welcome it.

> I won't even lose a
>word on your misuse of HTML instead of plain ASCII for sending mail.

Then, don't... 

>It's just that I don't know why you distribute your meaningless
factoids by
>way of mailing lists like Cypherpunks (which is how I'm bothered by
your
>postings every single day).

Please feel free to enlighten me about reality and debunk my factoids.

As for why I fwd to the Cypherpunks, ask Tim May about the link
between govt trying to ban guns and govt trying to ban strong crypto. 
Or even better than bothering Tim, go back an read the archives of
Cypherpunks...


> Cypherpunks is a mailing list for users of 
>cryptographic technology. Topics are concerned mainly with software
and the
>implications of using certain programs.

Mainly.  But it is also *highly* concerned by the ethics and politics
of it.  Guns and crypto are, at the abstraction level, extremely
similar and therefore, it is not surprizing to see govt react the same
to both topic.  

An individual's specific psycho-epistemology and definition of Man
will, usually, lead to the same conclusions on theses two apparently
different topics. 

>Arms,which seem to be YOUR concern, are for shooting people or game.

Arms are NOT my concern, my concern is Freedom.  Guns are not for
anything in particular, they *are*.  Your choice to prefer to shoot
peoples than game or targets or simply to engineer a  more performing
piece of hardware is what you choose to do with it.  And is happens
that by the nature of them, e.g. the capacity to exert coercion at a
distance, they are the ultimate tools of choice of governments, which
by nature, are coercives.  Govts have their roles.  History has shown
over and over again ad nauseaum that govts are *dangerous* entities if
taken over by a certain category of individuals.

In order to defend the freedom of the individual, guns, i.e. tools of
tele-coercion are the ultimate deterrent.  Ask any american about it. 
Or consult the Constitution of the United States and see Thomas
Jefferson's explanation for the reason of the second ammendment.

>think this difference is big enough to justify my asking you to post
your
>stuff elsewhere.

I suppose you ignore that crypto is ruled by ITAR in North-America and
that the liberty-to-own-guns advocates also have their grips with ITAR
?

>I don't want to be bothered by unsolicited junk mail like
>yours any more.

when you sent the line subscribing line to the majordomo
subscribe cypherpunk-unedited hjwiesner@uni-tuebingen.de,  which
letters of the word "unedited" did you not understand?

There is *a lot* of junk mail coming from the cypherpunks list and my
posts represent my opinion, which in itself is legitimate,  an facts
obtained from the Royal Canadian Mounted Police itself.

If you don't want to receive any junk mail, send an e-mail to
majordomo@toad.com, leave the subject line blank and send the
following message:

unsubscribe cypherpunks-unedited hjwiesner@uni-tuebingen.de

Ciao

jfa
[note: when I post to gun groups, I use a crypto-oriented .sig and
when I post to crypto groups, I usually use a gun-oriented .sig.]

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Definition:  FASCISM: n.:  a political and economic movement, strongly nationalistic, magnifying the rights of the state as opposed to those of the individual, in which industry, though remaining largely under private ownership, and all administrative
political units, are controlled by a strong central government.
        -------------------------------------------------
"One of the ordinary modes by which tyrants accomplish their purpose, without resistance, is by disarming the people and making it an offense to keep arms".  - Joseph Story, U.S. Supreme Court Justice.
        -------------------------------------------------
the German gun control laws were enacted by the "liberal" Weimar Republic government that preceded Hitler, and were a strong aid to his coming to power -- because they disarmed Hitler's opponents, and Hitler's adherents ignored them -- as criminals have always ignored gun control laws.

Disarming the public is a frequent first step toward dictatorships and genocides.  Once the disarming is complete, the public is helpless against those who have the guns.        -------------------------------------------------

PGP keys: http://bs.mit.edu:8001/pks-toplev.html
PGP ID:C58ADD0D:529645E8205A8A5E F87CC86FAEFEF891 
PGP ID:5B51964D:152ACCBCD4A481B0 254011193237822C





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Dan McDonald 
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 13:39:09 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: 40-bit brute force RC4 speed records?
Message-ID: <199809251826.LAA09275@kebe.eng.sun.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Just curious, what's the speed record?  What if I had, oh, say, a 4-way Ultra
Enterprise 450 at my disposal?

Thanks,
Dan




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Burnes 
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 13:45:12 +0800
To: Pat Cain 
Subject: Just who should Kenneth Starr work for next?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980925091151.006b98a0@ego.idcomm.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Fri, 25 Sep 1998, Pat Cain wrote:

> Folks - 
> 
> Allegedly a Reuters story, from sources unknown (too many forwards to give
> proper credit).
> 
> pjc
> 
> =====================================================
> Flynt offers Starr job as porno aide
> 

Pretty amusing.  After Billy has resigned/been impeached he could star in
porno movies that Flynt produces -- maybe use the proceeds to pay the
taxpayer back for all the wasted time and money.

The real problem with all this is that Star was forced to reveal exactly
what acts took place because Clinton insisted on defining the minutia of
what constituted "sexual relations" -- thus revealing whether he did or
didn't conform to that definition was mandatory.  The question of perjury
balances on these facts. 

Any adult with half a brain knows that sexual relations are relations that
are sexual in nature.  A reasonable man/woman (especially wives of
the adulterer in question) would consider oral sex sexual relations.

But that is beside the point.  Billy C is being hoist on his own petard. 
The fishing expedition discovery process allowed by sexual harrasment
suits were an invention of NOW (and the club of socialist lawyers that Mr
Clinton clearly is a member of.) 

By any stretch of the imagination Clinton has either perjured himself in
his civil deposition (a felony offense), perjured himself before a federal
grand jury (an even more serious felony offense), obstructed justice or
all three. 

Of course the whole thing could have been avoided if Clinton had simply
told the truth during the deposition and to the American people. 
(Actually it could have been avoided if Mr. Clinton had not made a habit
of making his private life a matter of public record). 

Now Clinton has put either himself or the Republic in a very precarious
situtation. 

(1) Either the perjury and obstruction of justice laws apply equally to
everyone, or they apply to no one.  If the judicial system fails to
enforce these laws they set an example.  Next time someone is under oath
they can decide what they can and can't lie about.  They can decide that
"alone" means something other than what a reasonable man would agree with.
They can decide to deceive the judge and jury if the prosecution is
hostile (as if the prosecution is ever anything but).  They can give
testimony before a federal grand jury over a closed circuit video feed so
that they are free to refuse to answer questions without chance of being
held in contempt and jailed. 

(2) Admit that he lied under oath and open himself up to prosecution (and
definite impeachment). 

(3) Resign and save (a) the Democratic Party (b) tax payers dollars (c)
his own skin

(4) Refuse (2) and (3) and trash the democratic party in the elections,
waste huge amounts of taxpayer dollars and jeopardize the institution of
the presidency and the legal system. (whats left of them ;-)

And before all the dems on this list bitch that I'm just being partisan
and just "let the man get on with his job" -- let me state that telling
the people the truth *is* part of "his job".  (and I'm neither a democrat
or a republican -- not that there is much differnce anymore)

We all laugh at and belittle politicians for lying to us when "their
mouths are moving", but when they move those mouths under oath they are
held to a high legal standard.  Would you prefer this standard not apply
when taking the oath of office?  Would you countenance a politician who,
appearing as a witness in a murder case, lied about who he had seen
stabbing whom?  Part of the oath of office swears out the fact that they
will faithfully execute the laws of the land.  Is this another sworn
oath we could write off as the "trappings" of the republic?

More importantly, as Noam Chomsky points out in "Manufacturing Consent",
lying politicians are the modern democratic equivalent of feudal tyrants
beating or executing citizens in more "uncivilized times".  When the king
decided to supress the power of the citizens he simply beat, killed or
imprisoned them.  When modern politicos want to relieve people of power
they lie to them straightfaced, then do whatever they choose.  The more
slick they are, the less the people even know whats being done to them --
and the more dangerous they are.  They become tools of force for those
who wish to buy them.  The velvet glove over the iron fist.  In this
Heinlein is dead right -- democracy is force.

If anyone could watch the clinton testimony on video tape and not believe
that he is a congenital liar then you are deluding yourself. 

And as for getting on with the business of government that most "liberals"
hope for: education, welfare, more money for more people -- maybe they
ought to start thinking more about what is being done *to* them than *for*
them. 

"When we got organized as a country and we wrote a fairly radical
Constitution with a radical Bill of Rights, giving a radical amount of
individual freedom to Americans, it was assumed that the Americans who had
that freedom would use it responsibly.... [However, now] there's a lot of
irresponsibility. And so a lot of people say there's too much freedom. 
When personal freedom's being abused, you have to move to limit it."
President Bill Clinton, MTV's "Enough is Enough" 3-22-94

(*gulp*, the Founders are rolling in their graves like blenders
on frappe.  The true colors of a "communitarian")

In any case, since I'm neither Demoblican or RepublicRat I see the whole
issue like a bystander at the crash of the Hindenberg.  The first flames
are breaking out on top and you know that the thing is made of hydrogen
and flammable materials.  The conflagration is not going to go out until
the fuel is exausted.  Between Lewinsky, TravelGate, FBIFileGate,
DonationGate, Whitewater, Elections, Satellite News and the Internet thats
a hell of a lot of fuel.  Add Y2K to the fire and you just know the thing
is going to burn to a cinder as it grounds out.  "Oh, the humanity"

Being of libertarian disposition I'm no fan of the nature of sexual
harrasment proceedings, but if you are the chief executive of those laws
then you must also live by them or risk undermining the very underpinnings
of the legal system.  If you want to be the banker in the game of
Monopoly, don't complain that you don't like the rules when someone
catches you cheating.

(i know the original post was intended humoursly, but I'm so tired of the
prevarication, deceit, etc I had to put a word or two in ;-) 

taking a deep breath,

jim burnes

"Libery cannot be preserved without a general knowledge among the 
people, who have .. a desire to know; .. that most dreaded and
envied kind of knowledge.  I mean of the characters and conduct 
of their rulers."
    -- John Adams
    A Dissertation on the Canon and Feudal Law [1765]




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: registrar@mailer.switchboard.com (Switchboard Registrar)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 13:18:01 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Welcome to Switchboard: [FBJJM,695]
Message-ID: <19980925180408454.AAA87@www1>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



To confirm your Switchboard registration, simply REPLY to this
letter.  DO NOT modify the "Subject:" field. Your new or updated
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: pnet@proliberty.com
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 17:20:07 +0800
To: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Excerpt from the following:
>It also incorporates several
>>security features that have proved effective against would-be
>>counterfeiters: a watermark; enhanced security thread;

Of course no mention is made here of the enhanced ability for goons to
steal your money.

It has been reported that these 'security threads' enable detection
equipment at airports to measure, or estimate, the amount of cash a person
is carrying. This further enables seizures which are now taking place in
the proximity of US borders, with the excuse that the carrier of the cash
could be 'intended' to cross a border, without filing a customs report.
Mere possesion of 'large' amounts of cash, in the proximity of a US border,
is coming to be considered 'prima facie' evidence of 'money-laundering'.

See previous message:
>Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 08:32:43 -0400
>To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
>From: Robert Hettinga 
>Subject: IP: Tougher laws are sought to seize cash

If I had been smart enough to see this coming when they came out with the
new security threads in $100 bills, I never would have traded the old ones
in.

Of course, carrying gold or silver will set off the metal detectors too.

I wonder if diamonds show up on the scanners?

- Tom Paine


At 3:27 AM 9/25/98, Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote:
>From: believer@telepath.com
>Subject: IP: Funny Money: New $20 FRNs are here
>Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 17:05:38 -0500
>To: believer@telepath.com
>
>Source:  US Newswire
>http://www.usnewswire.com/topnews/Current_Releases/0924-109.txt
>
>U.S. Treasury, Federal Reserve Issue New $20 Note
>U.S. Newswire
>24 Sep 10:45
>
> U.S. Treasury, Federal Reserve Issue New $20 Note
> To: National and Financial Desks
> Contact: Hamilton Dix of the U.S. Department of the Treasury,
>          202-622-2960, or
>          Bob Moore of the Federal Reserve,
>          202-452-3215
>
>   WASHINGTON, Sept. 24 /U.S. Newswire/ -- Treasury Secretary Robert
>E. Rubin and Federal Reserve Board Chairman Alan Greenspan today
>announced the issuance of the redesigned $20 note, which includes new
>and modified security features to deter counterfeiting of U.S.
>currency.
>
>   Rubin and U.S. Treasurer Mary Ellen Withrow marked the
>issuance of the new notes in a ceremony at Treasury's Cash Room in
>Washington, D.C. More than two dozen regional events hosted by
>Federal Reserve banks and branches and major retailers were also
>conducted around the country.
>
>   "We have introduced a series of features that greatly raise the
>hurdle for counterfeiters," Rubin said. "Together these features
>amount to a formidable tool, and make spotting a counterfeit
>note easier than ever. For them to be effective, it is important that
>people stop for a moment to look for the new features."
>
>   The new $20 will replace older notes gradually, and older series
>$20 notes still in good condition will be recirculated. About
>$83 billion worth of $20 notes is currently in circulation, 80
>percent of those in the U.S. More than $450 billion worth of
>U.S. currency circulates around the globe.
>
>   The Series 1996 $20 note is the third U.S. currency note to be
>redesigned to include new and modified security features. New $10 and
>$5 notes are expected to be issued simultaneously in 2000, and a new
>$1 note with a more modest redesign will follow.
>
>   "We are confident that the introduction of this third redesigned
>note will be as smooth as that of the $100 and $50 notes," Chairman
>Greenspan said. "Older notes will not be recalled or devalued. All
>existing notes will continue to be legal tender."
>
>   Like the Series 1996 $100 and $50 notes introduced since 1996, the
>new $20 note has a familiar appearance. The size, color and
>historical subjects have not changed. It also incorporates several
>security features that have proved effective against would-be
>counterfeiters: a watermark; enhanced security thread; fine-line
>printing patterns; color-shifting ink; and a larger, off-center
>portrait that is the most noticeable change in the overall
>architecture of the note. There are also two features for the blind
>and visually impaired. The new $20 note includes a capability that
>will allow the development of technology to help the blind ascertain
>the denomination of their currency. In addition, the $20 and $50
>notes have a large numeral on the back that make the notes easier for
>millions of Americans with low vision to read.
>
>   The continuing introduction of redesigned notes is a critical
>component of the Federal government's anti-counterfeiting effort.
>The new series aims to maintain the security of the nation's currency
>as computerized reprographic technologies such as color copiers,
>scanners and printers become more sophisticated and more readily
>available. The $20 note is the most frequently counterfeited note in
>the United States.
>
>   Since the $20 note is so widely used in daily commerce and most
>frequently dispensed by ATMs, broad nationwide recognition of the new
>note when it is introduced will minimize apprehension on the part of
>the public. A public education campaign now underway encourages the
>public and people who handle cash every day to become familiar with
>the design and security features of the new notes. Retailers and
>financial institutions are educating their employees and customers by
>sending posters to their outlets, training cashiers, offering
>pamphlets to the public, and including information about the new note
>in advertising circulars and on shopping bags. More than 100
>constituency organizations have helped reach small business owners,
>loss prevention managers, visually impaired and older Americans, and
>others with a stake in the new note's introduction. U.S. embassies
>and consulates are using materials translated into 15 languages to
>conduct localized education outreach to ensure that local users of
>U.S. currency as well as financial institutions are prepared for the
>issuance of the new note.
>
>   Fact sheets on the new note, the history of U.S. currency and
>related agencies are available at http://www.moneyfactory.com.
>
> -0-
> /U.S. Newswire  202-347-2770/
> 09/24 10:45
>
>Copyright 1998, U.S. Newswire
>-----------------------
>NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
>distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
>interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
>educational purposes only. For more information go to:
>http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
>-----------------------
>
>
>
>
>**********************************************
>To subscribe or unsubscribe, email:
>     majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com
>with the message:
>     (un)subscribe ignition-point email@address
>**********************************************
>www.telepath.com/believer
>**********************************************





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: pnet@proliberty.com
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 17:19:50 +0800
To: Larry Becraft 
Subject: Re: IP: National ID
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>From: Larry Becraft 
>Subject: IP: National ID
>Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 17:17:56 -0500
>To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com

>    The reason I write now is because we have only about another week
>(Oct. 2) to get in more objections to this regulation. I have just
>visited the DoT webpage

Do you have a URL for this page?

- tppt: Tom Paine, Perpetual Traveller; webmaster@proliberty.com
================================================================
The USA has the highest incarceration rate in the world (1.6 m)
Most of those in prison are there for victimless 'crimes' (63%)
Since 1979, property seized without trial, has increased by 2500%
In the 'War On Drugs', drugs do not die. People do.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Blanc" 
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 18:49:52 +0800
To: 
Subject: Is Toto in Kansas, or in MO
In-Reply-To: <199809252130.XAA24262@replay.com>
Message-ID: <000401bde8e0$2dd516e0$388195cf@blanc>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Who said this, "Toto":

   	"A long time ago, being crazy meant something.
  	"Now, everybody's crazy."

    ?

    ..
Blanc




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Reeza! 
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 02:13:04 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: IP: Privacy: FTC Losing Patience w/Business
In-Reply-To: <199809240731.AAA25674@netcom13.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980925171547.00825620@205.83.192.13>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 03:20 PM 9/24/98 -0500, Petro wrote:
>At 2:31 AM -0500 9/24/98, Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote:
>>From: believer@telepath.com
>>Subject: IP: Privacy: FTC Losing Patience w/Business
>>Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 07:33:09 -0500
>>To: believer@telepath.com
>>
>>Source:  New York Times
>>http://www.nytimes.com/library/tech/98/09/biztech/articles/21privacy.html
>>
>>September 21, 1998
>>
>>F.T.C. 'Losing Patience' With Business on
>>A site called Soccer Patch (www.soccerpatch.com) is a trading post for
>>soccer-playing children who want to trade team patches. It lists the names,
>>e-mail addresses and in some cases the hometowns of children who want to
>>trade patches. That is a red flag for F.T.C. enforcers. They worry that
>>child molesters can use the information to find victims.
>
>	Since when is it the job of the F.T.C worry about child molesters?

It's always been Big Brothers business, to mind other peoples business.

Reeza!




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mok-Kong Shen 
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 12:33:35 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: An Extended Version of My Encryption Algorithm WEAK3
Message-ID: <360BD384.25A9228D@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I have done a trial implementation of a number of suggestions received
for improving my encryption algorithm WEAK3 and have decided to
integrate a subset of these into WEAK3 to form an extended version of
it designated WEAK3-E. The added features are the following:

   1. Text block chaining. Two options are provided. These are similar 
      though not identical to the block chaining methods PBC and CBCC
      as described in B. Schneier's book.

   2. Another block chaining method that is specific to our scheme. It
      consists in modifying, depending on the text being processed, the
      pointers that are used to access the various pseudo-randomly
      generated tables of the algorithm.

   3. All pseudo-randomly generated tables used in the algorithm can now
      be refreshed at user specified periods.

   4. Checksums of the chaining values in (1) and (2) above are output
      to provide integrity checking.

An implementation in Fortran 90 is available in:

     http://www.stud.uni-muenchen.de/~mok-kong.shen/#paper12

The rationales of design of the base version, WEAK3, are given in

     http://www.stud.uni-muenchen.de/~mok-kong.shen/#paper11

The implemented new features largely follow the suggestions of CWL.
I like also to thank GR and CK for construcive critiques and TPS for
validating the program code. All eventual remaining deficiencies and
errors are however exclusively mine.

A binary executable file for PC may be downloaded through:

     http://www.stud.uni-muenchen.de/~mok-kong.shen/#software

Critiques comments and suggestions for improvements are sincerely
solicited.

M. K. Shen




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Burnes 
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 21:00:50 +0800
To: David Emery 
Subject: Re: arms collectors...
In-Reply-To: <19980925195613.A3801@die.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Fri, 25 Sep 1998, David Emery wrote:

> ----- Forwarded message from "Thomas B. Roach"  -----
> 
> 
> Washington Times, 25 Sep 98
> Operable missile seized in customs
> By Bill Gertz THE WASHINGTON TIMES
> 
> U.S.  and British authorities are investigating how a Russian-design
> Scud missile was imported illegally by a weapons collector in
> California, The Washington Times has learned.
> 
> "This is a full-blown missile," said John Hensley, a senior agent of the
> U.S.  Customs Service in Los Angeles.  "The only thing missing is the
> warhead."
> 
> A Scud B missile and its mobile transporter-erector launcher --minus the
> warhead -- were seized Sept.  2 by customs agents in Port Hueneme,
> Calif., about 35 miles north of Los Angeles, said officials familiar
> with the case.
> 

Scuze me for picking nits, but if the missile doesn't have a
warhead then its just a rocket (plus some guidance systems).

When does a rocket become a "weapon of mass destruction"?

Maybe what American officials should be investigating is how US defense
contractors got an export license to sell ICBM components to the ChiCom's. 
I heard it was OK'd by the pres himself -- theorectically for big
campaign donations.

If those missiles are targeted at US, then that would constitute
blatant treason, would it not?

Inquiring minds want to know.

jim






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Emery 
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 19:03:31 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: arms collectors...
Message-ID: <19980925195613.A3801@die.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



----- Forwarded message from "Thomas B. Roach"  -----


Washington Times, 25 Sep 98
Operable missile seized in customs
By Bill Gertz THE WASHINGTON TIMES

U.S.  and British authorities are investigating how a Russian-design
Scud missile was imported illegally by a weapons collector in
California, The Washington Times has learned.

"This is a full-blown missile," said John Hensley, a senior agent of the
U.S.  Customs Service in Los Angeles.  "The only thing missing is the
warhead."

A Scud B missile and its mobile transporter-erector launcher --minus the
warhead -- were seized Sept.  2 by customs agents in Port Hueneme,
Calif., about 35 miles north of Los Angeles, said officials familiar
with the case.

The missile system was licensed for importation by the Bureau of
Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms.  But paperwork in the case was falsified,
and the missile system was not "demilitarized" -- rendered inoperable --
as required by import rules, Mr.  Hensley told The Times.

British customs officials are investigating the seller, a small firm
outside London, and U.S.  investigators are questioning an arms
collector from Portola Valley, Calif., near Palo Alto, who bought the
system, Mr.  Hensley said.

The missile transfer has raised fears about the proliferation of weapons
of mass destruction and missile-delivery systems.  It also could be an
embarrassment for the Clinton administration, which is engaged in a
major international diplomatic effort to halt missile exports by Russia
and China to the Middle East.  The importation raises questions about
U.S.  national security controls.

Mr.  Hensley said U.S.  military experts examined the missile and
determined that it was produced in Czechoslovakia in 1985.  The missile
was identified as an SS-1C, which the Pentagon has designated as a Scud
B.

Transfers of missiles like the Scud B, with a range of 186 miles, are
banned under the international export agreement known as the Missile
Technology Control Regime.

Customs officials said the missile was not identified until it was
driven off the British freighter that delivered it and an inspector
called customs agents to examine it.

Such weapons can be imported but must first be cut up with a blowtorch
so they can never be reassembled.

The officials identified the buyer only as a wealthy man who is a U.S.
citizen.  He is a legitimate arms collector -- apparently not linked to
terrorists or illicit arms dealers.  But the false paperwork has raised
questions about the deal and prompted the U.S. investigation.

			 Mr.  Hensley said the buyer had purchased a Scud missile earlier
that had been properly rendered inoperable.  But a photograph of that
missile was attached to the illegal system, seized Sept.  2, in an
effort to fool customs officials.

After examining the missile, customs agents called the ATF and were
surprised to learn that an ATF license had been issued for the missile
importation.

"We thought they were nuts," said one official close to the case.  The
missile system is being stored at the Navy's Pacific Missile Testing
Center in nearby Point Mugu, near Oxnard, where it has been impounded.

John D'Angelo, an ATF agent in Los Angeles, had no official comment on
the case.  "Routinely, the ATF and U.S.  Customs Service examine items
to determine their suitability for importation under federal
regulations," he said.  "We have not yet completed the inspection of
this importation and therefore can't discuss it."

The SS-1 Scud is a liquid-fueled missile that is among the most widely
deployed weapons in the world.  It is in service with more than 16
nations.  Iraq's military forces were able to extend the range of the
missile, which was fired extensively during the 1991 Persian Gulf war.

The chassis of the missile's launcher was identified as a MAZ-543 truck
used commonly by the former Soviet and Warsaw Pact forces for
short-range missiles.

"The guidance was totally intact and the engine was ready to go," Mr.
Hensley said.  "All you needed to do was strap on a garbage can full of
C-4 and you had a weapon." C-4 is military high explosive.

Concerning how the missile was handled by the British firm, Mr.  Hensley
said, "It is illegal to import this into the U.K., so the Brits are
wondering how this guy got this company to do this."

Investigators suspect the missile may have been bought in Europe on the
black market.

"Our concern is not so much that [the buyer] might have a licensing
problem," Mr.  Hensley said.  "It's just that in the aftermath of the
embassy bombings in Africa and the Oklahoma City bombing, that this
could be a real problem."

The Customs Service is intensifying its efforts to check for illegal
imports of such weapons, he said.

Stephen Bryen, a former Pentagon technology-transfer official, said
weapons like the Scud must be fully dismantled before they can be
allowed into the country.

"You have to worry anytime somebody brings a missile into the United
States, whatever cover it might be," Mr.  Bryen said. He noted that
terrorists or rogue states could use such collectors to acquire missiles
illegally.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 21:33:48 +0800
To: raymoon@moonware.dgsys.com
Subject: response much appreciated
Message-ID: <360C4F3D.5B6C@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Friday 9/25/98 7:34 PM

raymoon@moonware.dgsys.com
http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/text/faq/usenet/assembly-language/x86/microsoft/faq.html

>Sorry, I have not done any ASM DLL programming and none with Visual
>Basic.  I looked for obvious errors but could not find any.
>
>Sorry that I could not be of any more help.
>
>Ray


Thanks so much for responding.

I have VB 6.0 and masm 6.11.

Got masm 6.11 working okay.

But I get an error 48 in VB 6.0.

I am sleuthing-out what is going wrong.

By starting simple.

I looked at the NT samples!

I notice that the NT 32 bit code is different from the 16 bit
api.

I thought I might have grossed you out.

And therefore got no response.

I am SICK about what happened.

But the word is getting out.  http://www.aci.net/kalliste/bw1.htm

I got PAID to write the attached.

I will let you know WITH SOURCE CODE of my progress.

And thanks so much for helping.

I am SUPER-PLEASED with

Applied Computer Online Services
2901 Moorpark Avenue Suite 100, San Jose, CA 95128, USA
el: (408) 248-8811 U.S. Sales: (888) 927-7543 or 888-9-APPLIED Fax:
(408) 249-2884

Sam and Joyce were VERY NICE.  Sam declared me a Delphi user.  And, 
therefore,  I got VB 6.0 for me for $261.43. http://www.samintl.com

With its 800 mb of documentation.  Grollier's encylopedia fits on a
650 mb cd rom!

I got a separate sheet showing the billing to my credit card.  Which
I will pass on.

Let me show you the machines I did the work for.

http://metriguard.com/HCLT.HTM

One version used the Forth from my book.

I wrote the assembler dlls for the PC Data System version which
interfaces to VB 3.0.

My feeling is that you might get some CONSULTING business if you create
a FORUM on masm at your site.

John Young is a LEADER on internet FORUMS http://www.jya.com/index.htm. 

And J Orlin Grabbe  http://www.aci.net/kalliste/, who edited the
attached article, is a leader on FORUMS on economics and CLINTON. 
Grabbe was on 60 minutes.

BUT you have to create a 

           DYNAMIC 

SIMPLE SITE containg INFORMATION OF USE.

Hope to hear from you again.  And NOTHING EVIL.

Other than MASM, FORTH, LINK, ML, NMAKE, Microsoft ... Worse, of couse,
than
the Great Satan.

best 
bill

Title: Black and White Test of Cryptographic Algorithms




	

	
		
			
				
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: NMIR 
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 15:17:48 +0800
To: sjmz@hplb.hpl.hp.com
Subject: Re: [salman rushdie]
Message-ID: <19980925192238.27047.qmail@www0n.netaddress.usa.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Does anyone have any idea what this guy is on about?.

Regards,

NMIR

www.netlink.co.uk/users/impact/namir/namirm.html

billp@nmol.com wrote:
dave
---
ABQ J 9/24/98 
Iran May Withdraw
Writer's Death Threat

LONDON - Author Salman
Rushdie met with British Foreign
Office officials Wednesday amid
reports Iran is preparing to
withdraw the threat on his life.
The late Ayatollah Ruhollah
Khomeini pronounced a "fatwa," death sentence, 
against Rushdie in
1989 after the publication of his
book "Satanic Verses," which many
Muslims deemed blasphemous.
Islamic militants then put a $2
million bounty on Rushdie's head,
forcing the author to live largely in
under British police protection.
---

I THINK that I heard tonight and saw 
Rushie's picture on TV that the above
was called off.

Progress.

I am reading again your stuff at
http://www.jya.com/filth-spot.htm

Let's all hope for release of the requested documents
and SETTLEMENT.

bill


> --------------------------------------------- 
>	Attachment: bw1.html  
>	MIME Type: text/html 
> --------------------------------------------- 

____________________________________________________________________
Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 23:17:55 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: clinton body count
Message-ID: <199809260419.VAA10300@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



the sheeple shearing continues...

------- Forwarded Message

Date: 	Fri, 25 Sep 1998 10:50:33 -1000
From: Jonathan David Boyne 
To: Undisclosed recipients:;
Subject: [earthchanges] Re: The Clinton 'body count' - New alarm.. (fwd)



 http://www.worldnetdaily.com/exclusiv/980924.exrivero_clinton_bo.html
 THURSDAY SEPTEMBER 24, 1998
 
                    ------------------------------------------
                    [WorldNetDaily Exclusive]
                    ------------------------------------------
 
                    The Clinton 'body count'
                    New alarm over growing list
                    of dead close to president
 
                    By Michael Rivero
                    Copyright 1998, WorldNetDaily.com
 
                    "Dear Sir," began Monica Lewinsky's
                    somewhat peevish letter of July 3rd,
                    1997. In it, according to the recently
                    released report by Kenneth Starr, the
                    former intern chided the president for
                    failing to secure for her a new White
                    House job, and hinted that continued
                    stalling would result in word of their
                    affair leaking out.
 
                    The next day, Monica confronted Bill
                    Clinton in an Oval Office meeting she
                    described as "very emotional"; a meeting
                    which ended when the president warned
                    her, "It's illegal to threaten the
                    president of the United States."
 
                    Three days later, another former White
                    House intern, Mary Mahoney, was shot five
                    times in the back of the Georgetown
                    Starbuck's she managed. Two of her
                    co-workers were also killed. Even though
                    cash remained in the register, the triple
                    murder was quickly dismissed as a botched
                    robbery. No suspects have ever been
                    arrested.
 
                    Coincidence? Maybe.
 
                    Former Democratic National Committee
                    fundraiser and Commerce Secretary Ron
                    Brown was under criminal investigation.
                    Indictments seemed imminent. Ron Brown
                    had reportedly told a confidante that he
                    would, "not go down alone." Days later,
                    his plane crashed on approach to
                    Dubrovnik airport during a trade mission
                    excursion to Croatia. Military forensics
                    investigators were alarmed by what
                    appeared to be a .45-caliber bullet hole
                    in the top of Brown's head.
 
                    Coincidence? Maybe.
 
                    Yet another fundraiser was Larry
                    Lawrence, famed for his short residence
                    at Arlington National Cemetery. Less well
                    known is that he had been under criminal
                    investigation by the State Department for
                    three weeks when he died.
 
                    Coincidence? Maybe.
 
                    But for a growing number of Americans,
                    the sheer numbers of strange deaths
                    surrounding the career of Bill Clinton
                    has begun to raise serious questions. In
                    a meeting with Vernon Jordan, Monica
                    Lewinsky reportedly expressed fears that
                    she might, "end up like Mary Mahoney,"
                    and began to make sure that others knew
                    of her affair with Bill Clinton.
 
                    Of all the strange deaths surrounding the
                    Clintons, none has come under more
                    renewed scrutiny than the fate of White
                    House Deputy Counsel Vincent Foster, who
                    was found dead in Fort Marcy Park on July
                    20, 1993. The official investigation
                    concluded that Foster inserted a gun into
                    his mouth and pulled the trigger. Yet
                    according to the lab results neither
                    Foster's fingerprints nor blood was on
                    the gun, nor were powder granules or
                    bullet fragments traceable to that gun in
                    his wounds. The purported "suicide note"
                    was found to be a forgery by three
                    independent experts. The record of a
                    second wound on Foster's neck, and an FBI
                    memo that contradicts the official
                    autopsy, strongly suggests that Foster's
                    wounds were misrepresented in the
                    official report. The FBI's own records
                    revealed that deliberate deception was
                    used to link Foster with the gun found
                    with his body. Partly on the basis of
                    that evidence, the FBI is now in federal
                    court on charges of witness harassment
                    and evidence tampering in the case.
 
                    In normal police procedure, homicide is
                    assumed right from the start. Suicide
                    must be proven, because homicides are
                    often concealed behind phony suicides.
                    Yet in the case of Foster, serious doubts
                    persist regarding the credibility of the
                    evidence offered up in support of the
                    claim of suicide, and a recent Zogby Poll
                    revealed that more than two-thirds of all
                    Americans no longer think the official
                    conclusion of suicide is believable
 
                    The official conclusion regarding
                    Commerce Secretary Ron Brown's death was
                    that his plane was brought down by, "the
                    worst storm in a decade." However, the
                    Dubrovnik airport weather office, just
                    two miles from the crash site, could not
                    confirm the existence of any such storm,
                    nor did any other pilots in the area.
                    According to the April 8, 1996, Aviation
                    Week & Space Technology, three separate
                    radio links to the aircraft all quit
                    while the aircraft was still seven miles
                    from the crash, evidence that the plane
                    suffered a total electrical failure in
                    flight which was never investigated. The
                    perfectly cylindrical hole in Ron Brown's
                    skull never triggered an autopsy. After
                    Ron Brown's death, his co-worker, Barbara
                    Wise, was found locked in her office at
                    the Department of Commerce, dead,
                    bruised, and partially nude. Following
                    Brown's death, John Huang's new boss at
                    Commerce was Charles Meissner, who
                    shortly thereafter died in yet another
                    plane crash.
 
                    These and other questionable deaths have
                    been collected together in a document
                    known as the "Dead Bodies List," which
                    can now be found in many locations on the
                    World Wide Web. Some of the cases are
                    poorly documented and have been dismissed
                    until now as "conspiracy theory."
                    However, analysis of the "Dead Bodies
                    List" by experts on the Internet revealed
                    that in many cases, deaths whose
                    circumstances demanded an investigation
                    had been ignored.
 
                    Some events officially declared to be
                    accidents seem to stretch the bounds of
                    credulity. In one case, Stanley Heard,
                    member of a Clinton advisory committee
                    and chiropractor to Clinton family
                    members, and his lawyer Steve Dickson
                    were flying to a meeting with a reporter.
                    Heard's private plane caught fire, but he
                    was able to make it back to his airport
                    and rent another plane to continue his
                    journey. The rented plane then caught
                    fire. This time, Heard did not make it
                    back to the airport. Gandy Baugh,
                    attorney for Clinton friend and convicted
                    cocaine distributor Dan Lasater, fell out
                    of a building. Baugh's law partner was
                    dead just one month later. Jon Parnell
                    Walker, an RTC investigator looking into
                    Whitewater, interrupted his inspection of
                    his new apartment to throw himself off of
                    the balcony.
 
                    Nor does the pattern of suspicious deaths
                    discriminate by gender. Susan Coleman was
                    reportedly a mistress to Clinton while he
                    was Arkansas attorney general; she was
                    seven months pregnant with what she
                    claimed was Clinton's child when she
                    died. Judy Gibbs, a former Penthouse Pet
                    and call girl, reportedly counted Bill
                    Clinton among her clients. Shortly after
                    agreeing to help police in an
                    investigation into Arkansas cocaine
                    trafficking, Judy burned to death. Kathy
                    Ferguson, a witness in the Paula Jones
                    case, was killed with a gunshot behind
                    the ear and was declared a suicide, even
                    though her suitcases had all been packed
                    for an immediate trip. One month later,
                    Bill Shelton, Kathy's boyfriend and a
                    police officer who had vowed to get to
                    the bottom of Kathy's murder, was also
                    dead of a gunshot, his body dumped on
                    Kathy's grave.
 
                    Another alarming trend observed in these
                    deaths is how society's safeguards
                    against murder appear to have been
                    compromised. Many of the questionable
                    deaths involved either negligence or the
                    complicity of medical examiners.
 
                    Dr. Fahmy Malek was the Arkansas medical
                    examiner under then-Gov. Bill Clinton.
                    His most famous case involved his ruling
                    in the "Train Deaths" case of Don Henry
                    and Kevin Ives in which Dr. Malek ruled
                    that the two boys had fallen asleep on
                    the railroad tracks and been run over by
                    a train. A subsequent autopsy by another
                    examiner found signs of foul play on both
                    the boys' bodies and concluded that they
                    had been murdered. According to Jean
                    Duffey, the prosecutor in the Saline
                    County Drug Task Force, the two boys
                    accidentally stumbled onto a "protected"
                    drug drop and were killed for it. Dan
                    Harmon, the Arkansas investigator who
                    concluded there was no murder, is now in
                    prison on drug charges. Despite the
                    evidence for murder and national
                    exposure, the Henry/Ives case has never
                    officially been re-opened, and Jean Duffy
                    has since left Arkansas out of fear for
                    her life. Several witnesses in the
                    Henry/Ives case later died and were ruled
                    as either suicides or natural causes by
                    Dr. Malek, whose willingness to provide
                    an innocuous explanation for these deaths
                    is illustrated in one case where he
                    claimed that a headless victim had died
                    of natural causes. Malek claimed that the
                    victim's small dog had eaten the head,
                    which was later recovered from a trash
                    bin. When pressed to fire Dr. Malek, Gov.
                    Clinton excused the medical examiner's
                    performance as the result of overwork and
                    gave him a raise.
 
                    Dr. Malek's Washington D.C. counterpart
                    was Fairfax, Virginia, Medical Examiner
                    James C. Beyer. Long before his autopsy
                    on Vincent Foster, Beyer's work was
                    disputed. In the case of Tim Easely,
                    Beyer ignored obvious defensive wounds,
                    and eyewitness reports of an argument
                    between Easely and his girlfriend, to
                    conclude that Easely had committed
                    suicide by stabbing himself in the chest.
                    When an outside expert called attention
                    to the fact that Easely had been stabbed
                    clear through one of his palms, the
                    girlfriend confessed to the murder. In
                    the case of Tommy Burkett, Beyer ignored
                    signs of violence done to Burkett to rule
                    it was a simple suicide. A subsequent
                    autopsy showed that Beyer had not even
                    done the work he claimed in his original
                    autopsy. Even though Beyer showed X-rays
                    to Burkett's father, Beyer later claimed
                    they did not exist. When Beyer performed
                    the Foster autopsy, he wrote in his
                    report that X-rays had been taken, then
                    again claimed they never existed when
                    asked to produce them.
 
                    In some cases, the deaths simply have no
                    innocuous explanation, One witness, Jeff
                    Rhodes (who had information on the
                    Henry/Ives murders) was found with his
                    hands and feet partly sawn off, shot in
                    the head, then burned and thrown in a
                    trash bin. Another obvious murder was
                    Jerry Parks, Clinton's head of security
                    in Little Rock. Immediately following
                    news of Foster's death, Parks reportedly
                    told his family, "Bill Clinton is
                    cleaning house." Just weeks after the
                    Parks' home had been broken into and his
                    files on Clinton stolen, Parks was shot
                    four times in his car.
 
                    Ron Miller, on whose evidence Nora and
                    Gene Lum were convicted of laundering
                    Clinton campaign donations, went from
                    perfect heath to death in just one week
                    in a manner so strange that his doctors
                    ordered special postmortem tests. The
                    results of those tests have never been
                    released, but toxicologists familiar with
                    the case suggest that Miller's symptoms
                    are consistent with Ricin, a cold war
                    assassin's poison.
 
                    For a fortunate few the murder attempts
                    have failed. In the case of Arkansas drug
                    investigator Russell Welch, his doctors
                    were able to identify that he had been
                    infected with military anthrax in time to
                    save his life. Gary Johnson, Gennifer
                    Flowers' neighbor whose video
                    surveillance camera had accidentally
                    caught Bill Clinton entering Flowers'
                    apartment, was left for dead by the men
                    who took the video tape. Gary survived,
                    although he is crippled for life. L.J.
                    Davis, a reporter looking into the
                    Clinton scandals, was attacked in his
                    hotel room but survived (his notes on
                    Clinton were stolen). Dennis Patrick,
                    whose bond trading account at Dan
                    Lasater's company was used to launder
                    millions of dollars of drug money, has
                    had four attempts on his life.
 
                    But the real importance of the "Dead
                    Bodies List" isn't what it tells us of
                    modern political intrigues, but what it
                    tells us of ourselves, in how we respond
                    to it. The list has been around for quite
                    some time, largely ignored by the general
                    public, completely ignored by the
                    mainstream media. The common reaction has
                    been that such a list is unbelievable,
                    not for its contents, but for its
                    implications. For that reason, most
                    Americans have, until recently, accepted
                    at face value the official assurances
                    that all these deaths are isolated
                    incidents with no real meaning; that all
                    the indications of foul play and cover-up
                    are just an accumulation of clerical
                    error and "overwork"; that it's all just
                    "coincidence."
 
                    On Aug. 17, as Bill Clinton admitted his
                    "inappropriate relationship" with Monica
                    Lewinsky on nationwide television,
                    Americans began to confront the
                    unavoidable fact that this president and
                    his administration had lied to the public
                    about a rather trivial matter. Americans
                    came to realize that this president and
                    his administration could no longer safely
                    be assumed to have told the truth on more
                    serious matters.
 
                    In this new climate of doubt, the "Dead
                    Bodies List" has enjoyed a new vogue,
                    albeit a dark one. Talk radio discusses
                    it. Total strangers e-mail it to each
                    other. What was unthinkable a few months
                    ago has become all too plausible.
                    Political murder has come to America.
                    Those cases on the "Dead Bodies List"
                    where hard evidence directly contradicts
                    the official conclusion have come under
                    renewed scrutiny.
 
                    It takes courage for the average citizen
                    to accept that the government has lied to
                    them, for by doing so, the citizen also
                    accepts the obligation to do something
                    about it. Americans know beyond a doubt
                    that they have been lied to. Americans
                    are discovering that they cannot ignore
                    the fact of being lied to without
                    sacrificing that part of the American
                    self-image that holds honor and justice
                    as ideals. But as the above poll would
                    suggest, such a sacrifice is no longer
                    acceptable.
 
                 -----------------------------------------------------------
                                  [WorldNetDaily.com]
                   ---------------------------------------------------------
                               (c) 1998 Western Journalism Center
                   ---------------------------------------------------------
                     This page was last built 9/24/98; 11:51:28 
                              Site: matlanta@mindspring.com
 
 *** A List of Strange Deaths of Individuals Who All Had Verifiable 
     Ties with Bill Clinton
 http://www.devvy.com/death_list.html
 
 VINCE FOSTER FIVE YEARS AFTER
 Unsolved Mystery Hampers All Starr's Probes By Carl Limbacher
 http://www.esotericworldnews.com/vince.htm
 
 VINCE FOSTER INVESTIGATIONCHRIS RUDDY, (PITTSBURGH TRIBUNE) 
 http://www.ruddynews.com
 Christopher Ruddy's New Web Site 
 http://www.newsmax.com/insidecover.shtml
 Vince Foster - Patrick Knowlton v. FBI Agent Bransford
 http://www.monumental.com/lawofcjc/pk/
 *** Foster "J'Accuse!"
 http://www.angelfire.com/fl/pjcomix/zola1.html
 
 EENIE MENA MINIE MOE...
 http://www.esotericworldnews.com/eenie.htm
 
 The Mena Coverup
 http://www.esotericworldnews.com/mena.htm
 
 THE "SECRET" CHEMICAL FACTORY THAT NO ONE TRIED TO HIDE
 http://www.esotericworldnews.com/london.htm
 
 
 American Patriot Friends Network (APFN)
 APFN EMAIL LIST SUBSCRIBE/UNSCBSCRIBE IN SUBJECT LINE TO APFN@netbox.com
 APFN ONELIST: http://www.onelist/subscribe.cgi/apfn
 http://w20.hitbox.com/wc/index.cgi?W50887524
 http://esotericworldnews.com/apfncont.htm
 http://www.freeyellow.com/members5/apfn/
 
 
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 23:34:24 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 4.70:Canadian Internet Providers Draft Privacy Code
Message-ID: <199809260435.VAA11796@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: "ama-gi ISPI" 
Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 4.70:Canadian Internet Providers Draft Privacy Code
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 01:11:35 -0700
To: 

ISPI Clips 4.70:Canadian Internet Providers Draft Privacy Code
News & Info from the Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI)
Friday September 25, 1998
ISPI4Privacy@ama-gi.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This From: The Canadian Press (CP), September 17, 1998
http://www.cp.org

Net Privacy Code Drafted

OTTAWA (CP) -- Internet providers have released their own draft privacy
code just as the government prepares to introduce legislation this fall on
the matter.

The Canadian Association of Internet Providers, which represents more than
120 providers, hopes industry efforts to regulate itself will stave off
government action it says could lead to onerous and potentially harmful
national regulations enshrined in law.

"If it's extremely onerous for an international company to do business in
Canada, they will not do business in Canada," Julie Garcia, senior counsel
at America Online Inc. who helped develop the draft code, said.

The code, intended to be voluntary, addresses concerns such as control and
disclosure of users' personal information.

It was drafted to ensure it complies with the Canadian Standards
Association Model Code for the Protection of Personal Information.

The Internet providers code sets out 10 privacy principles for the
industry, including:

*      Internet providers are responsible for personal information
under their control.

*      Providers must disclose reasons for collecting personal
information.

*      Consent of users is mandatory for collection, use or disclosure
of information.

*      Personal information can be disclosed without consent only as
required by law.

"The majority of CAIP members already have some kind of a privacy
policy," said Margo Langford, chairwoman of the Internet association.

"What we're really trying for here is uniformity. I don't think you'll
find anybody that objects to the notion. Privacy is good for business."

The Internet providers association says U.S. experience has shown that
voluntary regulation works better than government law because it fosters
competition among providers to meet user demands.

Surveys have shown consumers are wary about using the Internet because
of concerns about the privacy of their personal information.

The federal government wants to introduce legislation early this fall to
protect Internet privacy, especially for electronic commerce purposes,
before
Canada is host of an Organization for Economic Co-operation and
Development conference in October.

Ottawa established a group to study electronic commerce and it produced a
paper on privacy that recommends legislation to address the very issues
the Internet association's draft code covers.

In addition, the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications
Commission announced in July it would hold public hearings in November
on whether it should get involved in regulating new media, including the
Internet.

Story Copyright (c) 1998 The Canadian Press (CP)

--------------------------------NOTICE:------------------------------
ISPI Clips are news & opinion articles on privacy issues from
all points of view; they are clipped from local, national and international
newspapers, journals and magazines, etc. Inclusion as an ISPI Clip
does not necessarily reflect an endorsement of the content or opinion
by ISPI. In compliance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed free without profit or payment for non-profit research
and educational purposes only.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

ISPI Clips is a FREE e-mail service from the "Institute for the Study
of Privacy Issues" (ISPI). To receive "ISPI Clips" on a regular bases
(up to 3 - 8 clips per day) send the following message  "Please
enter [Your Name] into the ISPI Clips list: [Your e-mail address]" to:
ISPIClips@ama-gi.com  .

The Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) is a small
contributor-funded organization based in Victoria, British Columbia
(Canada). ISPI operates on a not-for-profit basis, accepts no
government funding and takes a global perspective.

ISPI's mandate is to conduct & promote interdisciplinary research
into electronic, personal and  financial privacy with a view toward
helping ordinary people understand the degree of privacy they have
with respect to government, industry and each other and to likewise
inform them about techniques to enhance their privacy.

But, none of this can be accomplished without your kind and
generous financial support. If you value in the ISPI Clips service or if
you are concerned about the erosion of your privacy in general, won't
you please help us continue this important work by becoming an "ISPI
Clips Supporter" or by taking out an institute Membership?

We gratefully accept all contributions:

  Less than $60    ISPI Clips Supporter
          $60 - $99    Primary ISPI Membership (1 year)
      $100 - $300    Senior ISPI Membership (2 years)
More than $300    Executive Council Membership (life)

Your ISPI "membership" contribution entitles you to receive "The ISPI
Privacy Reporter" (our bi-monthly 12 page hard-copy newsletter in
multi-contributor format) for the duration of your membership.

For a contribution form with postal instructions please send the following
message "ISPI Contribution Form" to ISPI4Privacy@ama-gi.com .

We maintain a strict privacy policy. Any information you divulge to ISPI
is kept in strict confidence. It will not be sold, lent or given away to
any third party.









**********************************************
To subscribe or unsubscribe, email:
     majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com
with the message:
     (un)subscribe ignition-point email@address
**********************************************
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**********************************************




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 23:33:42 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 4.73: Europeans Bristle Over NSA's ECHELON-So Should You
Message-ID: <199809260435.VAA11807@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: "ama-gi ISPI" 
Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 4.73: Europeans Bristle Over NSA's ECHELON-So Should You
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 01:12:58 -0700
To: 

ISPI Clips 4.73: Europeans Bristle Over NSA's ECHELON-So Should You
News & Info from the Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI)
Friday September 24, 1998
ISPI4Privacy@ama-gi.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This From: The Baltimore Sun, September 19, 1998
http://www.sunspot.net

NSA listening practices called European `threat'
European Parliament report accuses agency of widespread spying
http://www.sunspot.net/cgi-bin/editorial/story.cgi?storyid=900000194001

By
Neal Thompson
Sun Staff

The National Security Agency has incurred the wrath of some U.S. allies and
triggered debate about increased global eavesdropping, thanks to a new
report that accuses the agency of spying on European citizens and
companies.

With the help of a listening post in the moors of northern England, NSA for
nearly a decade has been snatching Europe's electronic communications
signals, according to a report for the European Parliament.

"Within Europe, all e-mail, telephone and fax communications are routinely
intercepted by the United States National Security Agency, transferring all
target information to Fort Meade," said the report.

`Powerful threat'

It warned that the NSA's tactics represent a "powerful threat to civil
liberties in Europe" at a time when more communication -- and commerce --
is conducted electronically.

A preliminary version of the report circulated overseas in recent months,
touching off heated debate, with front-page stories in Italy, France,
Scotland, England, Belgium and even Russia.

The NSA won't discuss the report or even admit that the listening post
exists.

But this week, two days of debate in the European Parliament continued the
extraordinary public disclosure of comprehensive post-Cold War spying by
the agency. On Wednesday, the Parliament passed a resolution seeking more
accountability from such eavesdropping arrangements and more assurances
that they won't be misused.

"We want to make sure that somebody's watching them," said Glyn Ford, a
British member of the European Parliament, the legislative body for the
15-member European Union.

Observers say this was the first time a governmental body has described in
detail -- and then criticized -- the NSA's tactics.

"The cat's well and true out of the bag," said Simon Davies, director of
the London-based watchdog group Privacy International. "I would argue that
we have made the grandest step in 50 years toward accountability of such
national security transparencies."

The report describes a sophisticated program called Echelon, which the NSA
established in conjunction with British intelligence agencies. The program
includes a listening post in Menwith Hill, in Yorkshire, whose satellite
dishes soak up the satellite and microwave transmissions carrying Europe's
telephone conversations, faxes and e-mail.

Unlike Cold War spying aimed at the military, Echelon is a global
electronic surveillance system that targets individuals, businesses,
governments and organizations, the report says.

The U.S. shares the information with Britain, Canada, Australia and New
Zealand as part of an intelligence-sharing agreement called UKUSA. Each
nation has its own set of key words, so it can seek information on specific
issues, the report states.

Europe is but a fraction of Echelon's target area -- and the Menwith Hill
post is one of at least 10 around the world, the report adds.

"One reason its a bigger deal over there than it is over here [in the U.S.]
is because the SIGINT [signals intelligence] systems are over their heads
and not our heads," said Jeffrey Richelson, an analyst with the National
Security Archives, a U.S. group seeking to declassify intelligence related
documents.

Echelon repercussions

But the disclosure of Echelon could soon resonate across the Atlantic after
the European Parliament action. Furthermore, it could complicate current
negotiations between the U.S. and the European Union over encryption
programs that scramble or encode computer information, said Parliament
member Ford.

The U.S. has been lobbying for back-door access to such codes for security
reasons.


--------------------------------NOTICE:------------------------------
ISPI Clips are news & opinion articles on privacy issues from
all points of view; they are clipped from local, national and international
newspapers, journals and magazines, etc. Inclusion as an ISPI Clip
does not necessarily reflect an endorsement of the content or opinion
by ISPI. In compliance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed free without profit or payment for non-profit research
and educational purposes only.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

ISPI Clips is a FREE e-mail service from the "Institute for the Study
of Privacy Issues" (ISPI). To receive "ISPI Clips" on a regular bases
(up to 3 - 8 clips per day) send the following message  "Please
enter [Your Name] into the ISPI Clips list: [Your e-mail address]" to:
ISPIClips@ama-gi.com  .

The Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) is a small
contributor-funded organization based in Victoria, British Columbia
(Canada). ISPI operates on a not-for-profit basis, accepts no
government funding and takes a global perspective.

ISPI's mandate is to conduct & promote interdisciplinary research
into electronic, personal and  financial privacy with a view toward
helping ordinary people understand the degree of privacy they have
with respect to government, industry and each other and to likewise
inform them about techniques to enhance their privacy.

But, none of this can be accomplished without your kind and
generous financial support. If you value in the ISPI Clips service or if
you are concerned about the erosion of your privacy in general, won't
you please help us continue this important work by becoming an "ISPI
Clips Supporter" or by taking out an institute Membership?

We gratefully accept all contributions:

  Less than $60    ISPI Clips Supporter
          $60 - $99    Primary ISPI Membership (1 year)
      $100 - $300    Senior ISPI Membership (2 years)
More than $300    Executive Council Membership (life)

Your ISPI "membership" contribution entitles you to receive "The ISPI
Privacy Reporter" (our bi-monthly 12 page hard-copy newsletter in
multi-contributor format) for the duration of your membership.

For a contribution form with postal instructions please send the following
message "ISPI Contribution Form" to ISPI4Privacy@ama-gi.com .

We maintain a strict privacy policy. Any information you divulge to ISPI
is kept in strict confidence. It will not be sold, lent or given away to
any third party.











**********************************************
To subscribe or unsubscribe, email:
     majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com
with the message:
     (un)subscribe ignition-point email@address
**********************************************
www.telepath.com/believer
**********************************************




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 23:33:48 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Analysis of a Hack: Why was NYT Different?
Message-ID: <199809260435.VAA11818@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Analysis of a Hack: Why was NYT Different?
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 04:09:43 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  Online Journalism Review
http://olj.usc.edu/indexf.htm?/sections/

September 17, 1998

Analysis of a Hack
By Doug Thomas, Online Journalism Review Staff Columnist 
 
The following report is based in part on interviews conducted with Kevin
Mitnick and John Markoff, two key people whose names were invoked as part
of the September 13, 1998 hack of The New York Times Web site. 
 
On Sunday, September 13, a group calling themselves "Hackers for Girlies"
hacked into The New York Times Web site, forcing the Times to take its site
offline for nine hours - hours that happened to be on what was potentially
one of the paper's biggest days in the paper's online history. According to
the Times, traffic that was already up 35% on Saturday was expected to
double on Sunday, in large part due to The New York Times' coverage of the
Starr Report and the report's full text, which was also on the site. 
 
The hack, which was by all accounts a fairly sophisticated attack, is
different from most previous hacks in a number of ways. There have
previously been hacks of Web pages designed to express political
dissatisfaction. The Department of Justice Web page, for example, was
hacked in response to the passage
of the Communications Decency Act. Sites of both the Conservative and Labor
parties in Britain were hacked prior to elections. But this is the first
hacking incident - which could also be considered a political intervention
- where a major media outlet has been financially damaged over the public
perception that their coverage was unfair. 
 
At the heart of the dispute is the case of Kevin Mitnick, and at issue for
hackers is the question of Times technology reporter John Markoff's
coverage of Mitnick's case. Mitnick, who has served the last three and a
half years as a pre-trial detainee at the federal Metropolitan Detention
Center in Los Angeles, was the subject of several Times stories written by
Markoff. He was ultimately the subject of a best-selling novel co-authored
by Markoff and Tsutomu Shimomura, the San Diego-based security expert who
helped the FBI track and capture Mitnick. 
 
Hackers allege that Markoff used his position at the Times to hype the
story of Mitnick's arrest and capture - and to demonize Mitnick in the
public imagination. These perceptions, according to the hacker community,
account in large part for Mitnick's continued incarceration in a
maximum-security jail and his denial of the right to a bail hearing. He is
only four months from trial on a 25-count federal indictment for alleged
hacking. 

 In short, the message that hackers left on the Times Web site could be
boiled down to this: They feel that the way hackers are covered by the
mainstream media generally, and by The New York Times specifically, is
unfair. They are disturbed both by what is written about hackers, as well
as what stories are overlooked. 

 The battle over such representations continues to be played out in the
coverage of the hack itself. Mitnick learned of the Times hack through
local radio broadcast reports, some of which described it as an "act of
Internet terrorism" led by Mitnick. But Mitnick said in an interview that
he was upset both by the incident and the subsequent coverage of it. 
 
The message that the hackers left Sunday came in two parts: the page that
was displayed on the Times' Web site and the comments left in the HTML
code, which were far more articulate than the hacker-speak that
appeared on the surface. The hackers themselves indicate this in their P.S.
"0UR C0MMENTS ARE M0RE 'LEET THAN 0UR TEXT. DOWNLOAD THE SOURCE T0 TH1S
PAGE AND P0NDER 0UR W1ZD0M." It is in the comments embedded in the source
code that the hackers describe "the real meaning" of the page, including
supporting quotations from Tennyson, Voltaire and Milton. 
 
The hackers' central grievance stems from what they see as Markoff's
involvement in the pursuit and capture of Mitnick. The Web page's message
targets Markoff, specifically asking: "D0 YOU HAV3 N1GHTMAR3S ABOUT H3LP1NG
1MPRIS0N K3VIN? KN0WING THAT Y0UR LI3S AND D3C3IT H3LP3D BR1NG D0WN TH1S
INJUST1C3?" 
 
What lies beneath the code in the comments spells out the hackers'
complaint more directly: "The injustice Markoff has committed is criminal.
He belongs in a jail rotting instead of Kevin Mitnick. Kevin is no dark
side hacker. He is not malicious. He is not a demon. He did not abuse
credit cards, distribute the software he found or deny service to a single
machine. Is that so hard to comprehend?" 
 
Markoff, in an interview Tuesday, said his coverage of Mitnick's case was
totally objective. After years of covering Mitnick and because of his close
connections with Shimomura, Markoff said he found himself with
"access to remarkable events" and wrote about them "as accurately and
clearly as I could." 
 
"There were no dilemmas," he said. "I told my Times editors what I was
doing every step of the way." 
 
Regarding the decision to make a Page One story of the FBI pursuit of
Mitnick, he said: "I didn't place the
story." 
 
"If hackers are upset and believe the story was hyped, they are targeting
the wrong person," Markoff said. "Their quarrel is with the Times' editors,
not me." 
 
Although the term given to Mitnick - "darkside hacker" - did figure
prominently in Markoff's book, "Cyberpunk," which he co-authored with Katie
Hafner, Markoff said that the "darkside" moniker was "created by the
Southern California press." He said the term appeared in stories by both
the Los Angeles Times and the Daily News in the San Fernando Valley well
before he ever used it. 
 
Markoff thinks the hack against the Times has the potential to do
"tremendous damage" to Mitnick. If Mitnick's defenders want to make the
claim that Mitnick and people like him are "harmlessly wandering through
cyberspace," Markoff said, an event like this is the "clearest example to
contradict that." 
 
Emmanuel Goldstein, editor of the hacker publication 2600, sees things
differently. "It's not what I would have done," Goldstein said. "But it got
the story out. It is a story that has been suppressed for so long." 
 
The popular sentiment among hackers is that the coverage of the Mitnick
case hyped his arrest and capture - by referring to him as the "Internet's
Most Wanted," as a "cyberthief" and in some cases as a "terrorist" - but
the press has paid little or no attention to issues of Mitnick's long
incarceration without a hearing, the denial of his right to a bail hearing,
or to the fact that the government has failed to provide Mitnick with
access to the evidence to be presented against him. 
 
Even Markoff, who insists that he played no part in putting Mitnick in
jail, indicated that he has "a lot of sympathy for Kevin," acknowledging
that Mitnick is in a "difficult situation" and is faced with a "grim set of
alternatives." But Markoff rejects the notion that anyone but Mitnick
himself is responsible for his current situation. "Kevin made himself what
he is," Markoff said. 

 A statement from Mitnick's attorney,  released on Monday, addressed the
hack of the Times: "Kevin Mitnick
 appreciates the support and good wishes of those who speak out against his
continued state of incarceration for years without bail. However, he does
not encourage any individuals to engage in hacking pranks on his behalf.
Kevin believes other avenues exist that can be more beneficial to his
circumstances." Supporters were directed to the Mitnick Web site at
www.kevinmitnick.com. 

 In the aftermath of the hack, several issues remain. The New York Times
will undoubtedly claim that the damage done to their site has cost them
substantial lost revenue and a decrease in traffic and e-commerce.
Goldstein, however, quarrels with the claim that any real damage was done.
"They didn't trash the Times' Web site and they could have," he said,
indicating that the hack was intended to send a message, rather than to do
any serious damage. 
 
This is not the first time a Web site has been hacked in support of
Mitnick. In fact, in December of 1997, hackers posted a threatening message
at Yahoo!, demanding the release of Mitnick. While that incident can be
dismissed as a prank, the Times attack is something altogether different.
Even the message the hackers left on the Times' page criticizes other
hackers for not having "a real purpose" and for not leaving a "meaningful
statement" in their hacks. 

(c) Copyright 1998 Online Journalism Review
 
Doug Thomas is a professor at the Annenberg School for Communication. His
column, Hacker Alert, appears monthly in the Online Journalism Review. 
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




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To subscribe or unsubscribe, email:
     majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com
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     (un)subscribe ignition-point email@address
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 23:33:54 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Why is This Important? Read: The Politics of Hacking
Message-ID: <199809260435.VAA11835@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Why is This Important? Read: The Politics of Hacking
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 04:19:59 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

----------------------------
NOTE:  Here is why the issue is important:  "Mitnick has been incarcerated
for three and a half years without a hearing and has had the evidence to be
brought against him withheld from discovery."  No habeas corpus.  No
hearing.  No evidence.  This man is a political prisoner to whom justice
has been denied.  Is he guilty?  No one will ever know if there is never a
trial.  Presumption of innocence is obviously a thing of the past.  
----------------------------

Source:  Online Journalism Review
http://olj.usc.edu/indexf.htm?/sections/

September 16, 1998

The Politics of Hacking
By Doug Thomas, Online Journalism Review Staff Columnist 
 
Over the past few years there has been a decided shift in the way hackers
think about the world. Born from an idealistic model of personal,
individual achievement, the very idea of hacking has always been a singular
and isolated phenomenon. In the early days, hackers rarely worked in groups
or teams, preferring to hand programming solutions off to one another in
the process of what they called "bumming code." Each time a
program was handed off, it would be improved slightly and then passed along
to the next hacker, and so on. 
 
Hackers of the 1980s and 1990s, who began to form loosely knit groups such
as the Legion of Doom and Masters of Deception, practiced a similar ethic,
whereby hackers would learn from one another, but generally the
understanding was everyone for themselves (especially whenever someone got
arrested!). 
 
That ethic, which began with the hackers of the 1960s and 1970s, is
beginning to dissolve in the face of politics. 
 
Old school hackers are oftentimes disgusted by the antics of their progeny
(and make no mistake they are their offspring). Indeed, many old-timers
insist that today's hackers are unworthy of the moniker "hacker" and prefer
to terminologically reduce them, calling them "crackers" instead. That
distinction has never held much truck with me. It denies too much history,
too many connections, and is often nothing more than a nostalgic, and very
convenient, recollection of their own histories. 
 
The earliest hackers did most of what they criticize today's hackers for.
Let's face it, they stole (the Homebrew Computer Club was famous for
pirating code), they regularly engaged in telephone fraud (even Jobs and
Wozniak built and sold blue boxes), they used all sorts of hacks to avoid
paying for things (remember TAP? TAP stands for Technological Assistance
Program; it was a newsletter put out by the Yippies that taught people how
to use technology to avoid paying for things.), and they had no problem
with breaking and entering or hacking a system if it meant they could spend
more time on the mainframe. 
 
They also tended to forget a lot of things. Who paid for all those
computers at Harvard, Cornell and MIT? Who funded ARPAnet? Could it be the
same folks who were busily napalming indigenous persons halfway around the
globe? And why were those computer labs shielded by 1" thick bullet-proof
plexiglass during the 1960s? The old school history is not as simple as it
sometimes appears. Yes, they were the geniuses who gave us the first PCs,
but along the way, they tended to be implicated in a lot of nasty business,
to most of which they were all too willing to turn a blind eye. 
 
I don't mean to suggest that old school hackers were not hackers, only that
they weren't all that different from the new schoolers that they like to
brands as criminals, crackers and the like. 
 
Where the old school seems to come off as (at best) forgetful, the new
school has shown a new kind of commitment, something that is virtually
unthinkable to hackers of yesteryear. 
 
The hackers of the late 1990s are becoming political. There is a new move
to group action, political involvement and intervention. 
 
Recently, seven members of the Boston hacker collective, the L0pht,
testified on Capitol Hill before the Senate Governmental Affairs Committee.
As Peter the Great described in his write-up of the testimony: "Mudge gave
a short, elegant statement which set the tone for the rest of the day's
talks. He expressed his hope for an end to the mutual animosity that has
long existed between the hacker community and the government and his
sincere desire that the ensuing dialogue would pave the way towards
civility and further collaboration between
the two sides. This was a beautiful moment. It was as if a firm hand of
friendship was being extended from the hacker community to the senate. I
was moved, truly." 
 
This is a gesture that would have been virtually unthinkable only a few
years ago. 
 
Even more dramatic is the fact that the Cult of the Dead Cow has a policy
on China. In part, that policy was used in their justification for the
release of Back Orifice, a computer security program that exploits
vulnerabilities in Windows 95 and 98 operating systems. According to the
cDc, Microsoft's decision to choose profit over human rights in supporting
trade with China implicates them in the politics of oppression. The cDc has
been working to support a group of Chinese dissidents, the Hong Kong
Blondes, who are learning to use encryption and hacking techniques to stage
interventions in Chinese governmental affairs to protest Chinese human
rights violations. 
 
 Most recently,  at home,  hackers have begun to band together in an effort
to raise public awareness about the imprisonment of Kevin Mitnick, a hacker
facing a 25-count federal indictment. Mitnick has been incarcerated for
three and a half years without a hearing and has had the evidence to be
brought against him withheld from discovery. In response to Miramax's
decision to film Mitnick's story, hackers have banded together, launching a
full-scale protest (among other things) in front of Miramax's offices in
New York. Their campaign also includes letter writing initiatives, the
distribution of "FREE KEVIN" bumper stickers, Web sites, T-shirts and even
an online ribbon campaign. Another group recently hacked the New York Times
Web site. 
 
The late 1990s marks a point in time when computers have begun to affect us
in undeniably political ways. The globalization of technology, coupled with
the power that the computer industry wields, makes hacking, in this day and
age, essentially a political act. Some of the effects can be seen in the
highly politicized trial of Kevin Mitnick and in the efforts to pass the
WIPO treaty, legislation that makes hacking (even legal experimentation) a
criminal act. 
 
The differences between old school and new school hackers are not as great
as they might appear or as they are often made out to be. If there are
differences, they reside in the fact that hackers today are stepping up 
and taking a kind of political responsibility that was altogether alien to
their predecessors. 
 
The future of hacking goes hand in hand with the future of technology. In
today's society we have passed the point where we can deny the import of
such action based on some nostalgic vision of our relationship to computers
and the world. It is high time that the hackers of yesterday take a long,
hard and sober look at their own history and begin to recognize the ways in
which the hackers of today are picking up and championing an agenda which
the old school hackers can no longer hide from. 

(c) Copyright 1998 Online Journalism Review

Doug Thomas is an Online Journalism Review staff columnist and a professor
at the Annenberg School for Communication. 
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




**********************************************
To subscribe or unsubscribe, email:
     majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com
with the message:
     (un)subscribe ignition-point email@address
**********************************************
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 23:34:06 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Oh, I feel sooooo much better now.....
Message-ID: <199809260435.VAA11846@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Oh, I feel sooooo much better now.....
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 07:38:34 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  Nando Net
http://www.nando.net/newsroom/ntn/politics/092498/politics4_13127_noframes.h
tml

IRS embarks on new era with taxpayer-friendly mission statement
Copyright (c) 1998 The Associated Press 

WASHINGTON (September 24, 1998 4:13 p.m. EDT http://www.nandotimes.com) --
The Internal Revenue Service adopted a new official mission statement
emphasizing that "service" is its primary job.

In another step toward becoming more taxpayer-friendly, the IRS announced
Thursday a new statement that will be featured on its 1998 tax
publications, displayed at IRS offices and put on its Internet Web site.

The statement says that the IRS mission is to "provide America's taxpayers
top quality service by helping them understand and meet their tax
responsibilities and by applying the tax law with integrity and fairness to
all."

This replaces a 1980s statement in which the first line stated that the
IRS's main job was to "collect the proper amount of tax revenue at the
least cost."

"Words alone aren't going to change the IRS, but this serves an important
purpose," said IRS Commissioner Charles O. Rossotti. "The mission statement
will be a reminder that we must be dedicated on a day-in, day-out basis to
serving taxpayers."

The change is one of many that have followed passage in Congress of an IRS
reform law aimed at moving the agency away from its heavy-handed past.

Copyright (c) 1998 Nando.net
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 23:34:17 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Here it Comes! E-Privacy Dispute Could Go to WTO
Message-ID: <199809260435.VAA11857@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Here it Comes! E-Privacy Dispute Could Go to WTO
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 15:12:58 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  USIA
http://www.usia.gov/current/news/latest/98092502.clt.html?/products/washfile
/newsitem.shtml

25 September 1998 

ELECTRONIC PRIVACY DISPUTE COULD GO TO WTO, EXPERT SAYS 

(U.S., EU still working for resolution)  (510)
By Bruce Odessey
USIA Staff Writer

Washington -- The U.S. complaint against European Union (EU) policy on
electronic privacy could eventually wind up in the World Trade
Organization (WTO), a Brookings Institution scholar says.

Robert Litan, director of Brookings' economic studies program, said he
could not predict what action the EU will take when its directive on
data protection -- opposed by the United States -- enters into force
in October.

At a September 24 meeting of the Coalition of Service Industries (CSI)
he speculated on some of the potential outcomes, however.

At issue is the EU directive restricting the collection and use of
personal information on the Internet. Most contentious is a provision
prohibiting electronic transmission of personal information about EU
citizens to countries that lack "adequate" privacy protection.

Enforcement of that provision might mean, for example, that EU
authorities might block U.S. companies in Europe from communicating
electronically with their offices in the United States.

Co-author of a forthcoming book on the electronic privacy issue, Litan
guessed that, if the two sides cannot resolve the dispute, the EU
might test its directive by imposing data embargoes on specific U.S.
business sectors or on certain business practices.

He noted that EU authorities have requested staff reports on four
sensitive related issues: medical information, electronic commerce,
airline reservations and personnel records.

Litan also identified four service sectors he considered especially
vulnerable to the directive: banking, insurance (especially health
insurance), investment banking (especially merger and acquisition
financing) and accounting.

If the dispute ends up before a WTO panel, he said, the two sides
could pick their arguments from different parts of the General
Agreement on Trade in Services (GATS). He said the EU could base its
argument on Article XXIV, which allows governments to protect the
privacy of their nationals.

The United States could base its argument on Article XXII, which
prohibits discrimination against foreign providers, he said.

In contrast with the EU, the Clinton administration has been pressing
in the WTO and other multilateral and regional groups for minimal
government regulation of electronic commerce. The administration has
encouraged the emerging U.S. industry to engage in self-regulation
instead.

Litan said EU authorities have choices on whether to enforce the EU
directive in a more or less intrusive way. For one example, they could
distinguish between business and other personal information, he said.

For another, he said, they could offer "safe harbor" exemptions for
corporate communications, or for certain industries, or for certain
equipment like laptop computers.

He said big multinational companies will somehow cope with the EU
directive, however it is enforced, possibly by entering into contracts
with the EU.

But Litan could not guess how small and medium-sized U.S. companies
could afford the expense of working out special arrangements with EU
authorities or how those authorities could enforce the directive
against small companies doing business in cyberspace.

"It's hopeless," he said.
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




**********************************************
To subscribe or unsubscribe, email:
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 15:44:42 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199809252034.WAA19047@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Thu, 24 Sep 1998 21:43:34 -0400 "Edwin E. Smith" 
writes:
>
>
>
>If you have Microsoft Word (6.0 or later), and have a thesaurus
>installed, do the following:
>
>1) Open a new, blank document.
>2) Type in the words: I'd like to see Bill Clinton resign.
>3) Highlight the entire sentence.
>4) Click on the tools menu and select thesaurus (tools, language,
>   thesaurus)
>
>Look what is immediately highlighted in the selection box. 
>

This was almost funny. Too bad the following sentences also work:
I'd like to drink frog urine
I'd like to hug large, purple dinosaurs
I'd like to cook onions with garlic and tomatoes
I'd like to strangle you with a mouse cable




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 16:41:14 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199809252130.XAA24262@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



                       Flowers for Alger Anon
                                       - FPP#3

  The two youths ducked quickly behind a tree to avoid
being spotted by the senile old fart who had finally given up
on finding his shoes and climbed barefoot up the step-ladder
to begin drilling out the cannon muzzle on the War Surplus
Army Tank he had recently acquired.
  As he labored he mumbled grouchily to himself about
how he was going to "show that Commie Bastard, Igor", and all
of the other former residents of The Home(TM) what he thought
of their efforts to take over "his" CypherPunks Mailing List.

  "Distributed, my ass!" the old fart scowled as he
climbed down the ladder, then grinned madly as he patted the
stack of shells sitting next to the tank.
  "I'll distribute those bastards...They should'a
Checked The Archives", he said, pausing to scratch his head
and add, "TradeMark". Then continuing, "before they fucked
with me. Then they'da seen how I ChopChopped them Torah-
Torah Bastards when they tried to muscle in on my list."

  "It's 'mine'!" the grouchy, paranoid old fart shouted,
turning his head around quickly in all directions, as if
challenging, and half-expecting, Unseen Beings to dispute
his claim.

  The two youngsters ducked and tried not to giggle
as they ran down the hill, finally collapsing on the dirt
road near the bottom and venting their laughter.

  Tim C. May was the most hilarious of the Cypher
Punks they'd investigated so far, but 'all' of the CPUNX
were "more than suitable", as Carol Anne Cypherpunk had
declared while they were evaluating Jim Choate, "for slicing
and buttering, and placing on a tray of Christmas snacks."
  Blanc Weber had agreed heartily with the new
coconspirator (sometimes spelled with a hyphen), in their
'Quest to Question Anonymity', as the Army o' Dog-Bitch
Battallion Warrior Godesses, as they had proclaimed them-
selves, had Code Named their Chosen Mission From Dog.

  Carol Anne, choosing Androgyny over Anonymity,
changed her name to Carroll for The Mission, vowing to
balance the Tao by taking on any tasks requiring "male
energy", which, on a CypherPunks Mission From Dog(TM),
Carroll stated with a straight face, might include
"blowing Dimitri".
  The Girls(Maybe) split a gut laughing over Blanc's
reply that, being of a more peaceful nature than the 'Nuke
DC Clique', they might have to "blow" their way out of
dangerous situations by the use of Soft Targets rather
than with Heavy Weaponry.
  Then they decided to get serious, before they, too,
became candidates for The Home.


  Blanc Weber, a veteran Cypher Punk Cult of One
Neophyte(TM) had felt slighted when the Author, a relative
newcomer to the CPUNX list (at least under his 'TOTO' persona),
had chosen to initiate two male Cypher Punks, Back and
McCrackin, into his 3-Entity Circle of Eunuchs Gorilla Cell,
instead of including Blanc, who had established a fairly
close rapport with TOTO in their private email exchanges.
   Even more to Blanc's surprise, disappointment,
and suspicion, TOTO failed to respond even to her offer to
engage in joint Army of Dog Maneuvers with him across various
Electronic Boundaries of the InterNet.  She had begun to
suspect that TOTO's lack of response to her Digital Warrior
overtures were the result of something more sinister than
simple male chauvinism.
   Her suspicions were confirmed when she caught up
with TOTO, using his CJ Parker alias, at Defcon 6.0, as he

was Pontificating, under the guise of 'Chief Cypher Punks
Spokes Person', on the 'Anonymizer', for a guillible group
of young hackers.
   "It is run by a HedgeHog riding Lance's Coat Tails,
since Lance invented that thing that hangs on the back of
toilet bowls, and the Anonymizer is the Blue Thing that
hangs on the back of the hard drive.
   Blanc, stunned that TOTO, who claimed to be the
Author, was a Total Fucking Moron (TM), listened as he
continued .
   "The Anonymizer prevents Peeping TOMS from being
able to tell whose hairy dick is making a bad smell on the
carpet of the recipient's computer, after No Mail from
NoBody comes out of the Email Chutechute.
  Blanc realized that CJ Parker was also a Total
Fucking Lunatic(TM) as he glanced furtively around to
whisper a dire warning to the spellbound young hackers
hanging on his everyword.
  "And the Peeping Toms are everywhere.
  "As a matter of fact", he added glancing quickly
over both shoulders, "when you can't see them at all..."
he paused for effect, "...then you know that they're 'good'".
  "Real good", he added, turning to direct his
wild-eyed stare at Blanc, who had just finished going
through his knapsack while he was distracted.
  Blanc had hurried away, deeply disturbed by what
she had found in TOTO's bag.  It wasn't just stationery
from The Home--it was 'personalized' stationery from
The Home for the Criminally Insane.
  Blanc Weber's confusion and suspicions deepened
when her attempts to warn other CPUNKS about TOTO were
ignored by all except the few apparent females on the list,
such as Carol Anne Cypherpunk and World Renowned Bottle
Collector Lynn Harrison (who was long rumored to have
joined the male-dominated mailing list only as a forum
to trade her panties to young CPUNX in the throbbing
throes of puberty, in return for the Standard Issue Klien
Bottles, they received upon joining the Digital Anarchist
Union, Local 01, rumored to be headquartered in Bienfait,
Saskatchewan).
  When The Girls(Maybe) of the Bitch Battallion took
to the road to investigate the remaining CypherPunks, they
quickly discovered that 'all' of the verifiable Meat Space
Personalities they positively linked to the various
Cyperpunks Consistent Net Personas (TM) were, in fact,
certifiably Cuckoo Cock Suckers(TM) in MeatSpace Reality.
With the only readily apparent link between them being
their connection to the Home for the Criminally Insane.
  Some of the MeatSpace Personalities behind the
Digital Personas on the CPUNX Mailing List--Ian Goldberg,
Alec de Jeune, Ulf Moeller, Peter Trei and Jim Choate--were
Highly Social Sociopaths, capable of putting ona suit and
tie, if need be, and glad-handing business people and
purchasing agents (all the while slitting their sleeping
throats, in the Dark Corners of their mind).
  John Gilmore, Declan McCullagh, Robert Hettinga,
Vin McClellan, even Froomkin--all of the Mainstream
Dream/Actively Connected To Society/Cypherpunks MeatSpace
Verifiable Identities, without fail, shared the same
connection to The Home as id the Lithium Dream/Social
Outcast CPUNX Meatballs such as T.C. May, A.T. Hun,
Wm Geiger III, S. Sequencr, JYA, and the late Dale Thorn
(whose mysterious death was rumored to be the work of the
Shadowy Figures(TM) lurking behind the ctrl-alt-delete.com
website).
  Blanc and Carroll watched in total amazement as
Jim Choate's ludicrous/inane computer and business theories
seemed to be somehow transformed, by unseen hands working
behind the scenes, into fully functional and viable
RealWorld(TM) concepts, in Choate's work with the Armadillo
Group.  The Unseen Hands made The Girls(Maybe) very, very
nervous.
  What pushed the Army of Dog-Bitch Battalion
Warrior Godesses beyond nervousness, toward Paranoia & Fear,
was the fact that the MeatSpace Personalities behind the
Digital Personas of the CypherPunks inevitably appeared
to be verifiable outside of The Home 'only after the
CPUNKS PERSONA'S original appearance on the mailing list'.
  A Cloaked Anonymous Random Source(TM) that The
Girls(Maybe) knew only as Digital Throat, speaking to
Larynx in an UnderGround Reptilian Nazi Parking Garage
in DC (after having been fooled into believing she was
talking to Defcon McCullagh Chain Saw). told them,
"I was the head of the Personelle Department at Intel,
at the time Tim May claims to have been there.
  "Even though we couldn't spell the name of our
Department right, let alone the names of the employees,
I never forget a face, and Tim C. May definitely was
never employed at Intel.
  "As a matter of fact", Digital Throat revealed,
"when Intel's Legall Department sent Mr. May a letter
that warned him to Cease & Decist with his claims, he
showed up on our doorstep, barefoot, in a MailMan's Uniform,
with a Veritable ShitLoad(TM) of heavy weapons and arms,
and, after that, as far as most of us were concerned,
if Tim c. May said he was the goddam 'President' of
Intel, then he was the goddam President--end of story."
  Blanc Weber and Carol Anne Cypherpunk found the
same patterns repeated time and again in their investiga-
tions of CypherPunks MeatSpace Ident Histories.
  Records, Information and Data-- such as birth
certificates, school records, credit and employment
histories-- were not only 'existant', but were inevitably
'consistent' with claims made in posts to the CPUNKS
mailing list, in regard to the MeatSpace Ident Histories
behind the Digital Personas.
  However, once The Girls(Maybe) had begun
researching the Human Historical Records of the MeatSpace
Ident Histories--speaking to alleged friends, family,
coworkers, and the like--the paper Trails quickly
unravelled, and the Physical Ident Histories of ALL of
the male subscribers to the CypherPunks Disturbed Male
LISP were, in the end, traceable 'only' back to the Home...






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 16:41:25 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re:
Message-ID: <199809252131.XAA24463@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



How about:

I'd like humping your mom with a prosthetic limb.
I'd like Hillary to get down on both knees and eat out Monica's ass.
I'd like nothing more than for anyone who even thinks about mentioning
Bill Clinton to spontaneously combust, preferably right in front of a gas
pump where his whole family is sitting in some sort of catatonic stupor,
unable to digest any information beyond that which The Machine feeds
them every day.

Who the fuck wouldn't drink to that?  For Christ's sake, I'd be buying!


At 10:34 PM 9/25/98 +0200, Anonymous wrote:
>On Thu, 24 Sep 1998 21:43:34 -0400 "Edwin E. Smith" 
>writes:
>>
>>
>>
>>If you have Microsoft Word (6.0 or later), and have a thesaurus
>>installed, do the following:
>>
>>1) Open a new, blank document.
>>2) Type in the words: I'd like to see Bill Clinton resign.
>>3) Highlight the entire sentence.
>>4) Click on the tools menu and select thesaurus (tools, language,
>>   thesaurus)
>>
>>Look what is immediately highlighted in the selection box. 
>>
>
>This was almost funny. Too bad the following sentences also work:
>I'd like to drink frog urine
>I'd like to hug large, purple dinosaurs
>I'd like to cook onions with garlic and tomatoes
>I'd like to strangle you with a mouse cable
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 18:06:18 +0800
To: danmcd@Eng.Sun.COM
Subject: Re: 40-bit brute force RC4 speed records?
In-Reply-To: <199809251826.LAA09275@kebe.eng.sun.com>
Message-ID: <199809252244.XAA04853@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




> Just curious, what's the speed record?  What if I had, oh, say, a 4-way Ultra
> Enterprise 450 at my disposal?

A Maspar: 1.5M keys/sec 

see:

	http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/ssl/

Adam




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 01:46:16 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: arms collectors...
In-Reply-To: <19980925195613.A3801@die.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 4:56 PM -0700 9/25/98, David Emery wrote:

>Washington Times, 25 Sep 98
>Operable missile seized in customs
>By Bill Gertz THE WASHINGTON TIMES
>
>U.S.  and British authorities are investigating how a Russian-design
>Scud missile was imported illegally by a weapons collector in
>California, The Washington Times has learned.
....
>British customs officials are investigating the seller, a small firm
>outside London, and U.S.  investigators are questioning an arms
>collector from Portola Valley, Calif., near Palo Alto, who bought the
>system, Mr.  Hensley said.
.....
>The officials identified the buyer only as a wealthy man who is a U.S.
>citizen.  He is a legitimate arms collector -- apparently not linked to
>terrorists or illicit arms dealers.  But the false paperwork has raised
>questions about the deal and prompted the U.S. investigation.

I know someone who is good friends with this guy. My friend is a
commodities broker who is active in gun shows and in weapons dealing. The
guy mentioned above has a couple of working tanks at this ranch up in
Portola Valley, tanks which he drives around. And lots of other weapons. I
was supposed to go on a shoot with this bunch a while back, but I couldn't
make it.

His Scud missile is unlikely to have been planned for any real use. Maybe
they think that with the First Criminal's spawn enrolled in the school down
Alpine Road that he's some kind of threat.

I could say more, but then I'd have to kill everyone who reads the list.

--Tim May

(This space left blank pending determ. of acceptability to the gov't.)
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 18:55:44 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199809252358.BAA03888@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



"More importantly, as Noam Chomsky points out in "Manufacturing Consent",
lying politicians are the modern democratic equivalent of feudal tyrants
beating or executing citizens in more "uncivilized times".  "

Zappa said politics was the entertainment branch of industry.








  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Soren 
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 05:59:44 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: IP: Oh, I feel sooooo much better now.....
In-Reply-To: <199809260435.VAA11846@netcom13.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <360CCAAC.AA4D6B9@workmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Boundary..3996.1071713803.multipart/signed"

--Boundary..3996.1071713803.multipart/signed
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit



Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote:

> ... The statement says that the IRS mission is to "provide America's taxpayers
>
> top quality service by helping them understand and meet their tax
> responsibilities and by applying the tax law with integrity and fairness to
> all." ...

While the IRS may be a law unto themselves, congress has not passed any "tax
law".  The IRS Code arises from the Federal Register, which does not make it a
law, merely a presidential dictate. Something like the divine right of kings.


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 02:53:35 +0800
To: cypherpunks@minder.net
Subject: Test - Ignore
Message-ID: <199809260756.JAA03532@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



ping




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 10:04:44 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: EuroParl Hits ECHELON
Message-ID: <199809261455.KAA17434@camel7.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Duncan Campbell has provided the September 14
European Parliament multi-lingual discussion on ECHELON 
and the related minutes:

   http://jya.com/ep091498-1.htm  (minutes in English; 11K)

   http://jya.com/ep091498-2.htm  (discussion in several languages, not
English; 82K)

English translations of the latter are welcomed by Duncan and JYA.
EP official translations may be some time acoming.

Duncan Campbell 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 10:51:29 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Test [No Reply]
Message-ID: <199809261553.KAA00228@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Test [No Reply]


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: kamikaze23@juno.com (Fallen I Angel)
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 10:32:03 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re:
In-Reply-To: <199809252131.XAA24463@replay.com>
Message-ID: <19980926.111946.12502.1.kamikaze23@juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




oh yeah,

try somethin like 
-- I'm an alcoholic
-- I'd like all minorities to die

it seems that anything w/ an apostrophe will get the phrase "I'd drink to
that"

it was on the UPN 9 News at 10 p.m. Just a simple mistake.  microsoft
released a patch, i think.

On Fri, 25 Sep 1998 23:31:14 +0200 Anonymous  writes:
>How about:
>
>I'd like humping your mom with a prosthetic limb.
>I'd like Hillary to get down on both knees and eat out Monica's ass.
>I'd like nothing more than for anyone who even thinks about mentioning
>Bill Clinton to spontaneously combust, preferably right in front of a 
>gas
>pump where his whole family is sitting in some sort of catatonic 
>stupor,
>unable to digest any information beyond that which The Machine feeds
>them every day.

>Who the fuck wouldn't drink to that?  For Christ's sake, I'd be 
>buying!
>
>
>At 10:34 PM 9/25/98 +0200, Anonymous wrote:
>>On Thu, 24 Sep 1998 21:43:34 -0400 "Edwin E. Smith" 
>
>>writes:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>If you have Microsoft Word (6.0 or later), and have a thesaurus
>>>installed, do the following:
>>>
>>>1) Open a new, blank document.
>>>2) Type in the words: I'd like to see Bill Clinton resign.
>>>3) Highlight the entire sentence.
>>>4) Click on the tools menu and select thesaurus (tools, language,
>>>   thesaurus)
>>>
>>>Look what is immediately highlighted in the selection box. 
>>>
>>
>>This was almost funny. Too bad the following sentences also work:
>>I'd like to drink frog urine
>>I'd like to hug large, purple dinosaurs
>>I'd like to cook onions with garlic and tomatoes
>>I'd like to strangle you with a mouse cable


___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Edwin E. Smith" 
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 11:14:27 +0800
To: Jim Burnes 
Subject: Re: arms collectors...
In-Reply-To: <19980925195613.A3801@die.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980926113818.007e45a0@mailhost.IntNet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

At 07:46 PM 9/25/98 -0600, you wrote:
>On Fri, 25 Sep 1998, David Emery wrote:
>
>> ----- Forwarded message from "Thomas B. Roach" 
 -----
>> 
>> 
>> Washington Times, 25 Sep 98
>> Operable missile seized in customs
>> By Bill Gertz THE WASHINGTON TIMES
>> 
>> U.S.  and British authorities are investigating how a Russian-
design
>> Scud missile was imported illegally by a weapons collector in
>> California, The Washington Times has learned.
>> 
>> "This is a full-blown missile," said John Hensley, a senior agent 
of the
>> U.S.  Customs Service in Los Angeles.  "The only thing missing is 
the
>> warhead."
>> 
>> A Scud B missile and its mobile transporter-erector launcher --
minus the
>> warhead -- were seized Sept.  2 by customs agents in Port Hueneme,
>> Calif., about 35 miles north of Los Angeles, said officials 
familiar
>> with the case.
>> 
>
>Scuze me for picking nits, but if the missile doesn't have a
>warhead then its just a rocket (plus some guidance systems).
>
>When does a rocket become a "weapon of mass destruction"?
>
>Maybe what American officials should be investigating is how US 
defense
>contractors got an export license to sell ICBM components to the 
ChiCom's. 
>I heard it was OK'd by the pres himself -- theorectically for big
>campaign donations.
>
>If those missiles are targeted at US, then that would constitute
>blatant treason, would it not?
>
>Inquiring minds want to know.
>
>jim
>
>
>
>

I wouldn't be afraid to bet that some Republicans were in on this and 
worse. I am not a fan of either Dems or Reps but I wonder if the 
reason the sex angle is being persued first is to get Clinton and the 
Dems out without any mud splashback.

I have heard that Starr is far from finished so time will tell.

In the end though I doubt if much will change for the beltway 
bandits.

Edwin
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When freedom is outlawed.......Only outlaws will be free!

If cryptography is outlawed, pomz pvumbxt xjmm ibwf dszquphsbqiz.

Fun! Fast! Revealing! Try "The World's Smallest Political Quiz" at:
   http://www.self-gov.org/quiz.html

IS AIDS A GOVERNMENT/DRUG COMPANY HOAX?
   http://www.virusmyth.com/aids/index.htm

When you blame others, you give up your power to change.
Dr. Robert Anthony

Libertarian Party of Hillsborough County, FL
   http://home.tampabay.rr.com/lphc

When a place gets crowded enough to require ID's, social collapse is not far
away. It is time to go elsewhere. The best thing about space travel is that
it made it possible to go elsewhere.

Lazarus Long




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 15:20:21 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: IP: Funny Money: New $20 FRNs are here
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980926125123.0084e2b0@m7.sprynet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




At 03:20 PM 9/25/98 -0700, pnet@proliberty.com wrote:

>It has been reported that these 'security threads' enable detection
>equipment at airports to measure, or estimate, the amount of cash a person
>is carrying. 

1. Diamonds fluoresce under x rays.  Don't know about alumina.
2. Anyone tried to get an RF reflection off the chaff-strips in the bills?








  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nnburk 
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 15:14:32 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: The Year 2000 Problem: The Good News and the Bad
Message-ID: <360D5DD0.1F2D@yankton.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>From THE FUTURIST (May 1998) 

                              The Year 2000 Problem:
                              The Good News and the Bad

                              The Year 2000 computer glitch has proved surprisingly 
troublesome.
                              Opportunities as well as dangers lie ahead.


             By Cynthia G. Wagner

             Four years ago, an author named Peter de Jager submitted to THE
             FUTURIST a reprint of an article he had published in a computer magazine.
             Entitled "Doomsday," the article warned of what will happen to the 
world's
             computers when 2000 rolls around.

             We editors rejected the article because it had already been published in
             another magazine and because it had already found its proper
             audience_computer programmers. We also felt that the "Year 2000
             Problem" was a minor technical glitch that would probably be fixed long
             before the year 2000.

             We were wrong: The Year 2000 Problem (or Y2K) was more serious than
             we thought. Very soon, what seemed like a minor technical problem to
             us_and to most other people at the time_had set off a furor and even
             created a new industry for consultants and programmers.

             Peter de Jager went on to co-write (with Richard Bergeon) a very useful
             book called Managing 00: Surviving the Year 2000 Computing Crisis [see
             box on page 19]. And as the year 2000 approaches, this book has been
             joined by multitudes of books, articles, reports, and Web sites 
addressing
             the problem.

             For our part, the editors of THE FUTURIST are doing penance by
             presenting this overview of the problem and its possible consequences. We
             also will summarize some ideas on how to prepare to cope with it.

             The Problem and What It Will Cost to Fix

             In the early days of computer programming, dates were entered as a
             six-digit configuration: two digits for the month, two digits for the 
day, and
             two digits for the year, or MMDDYY.

             Now, every date-relevant program in every computer needs to be Y2K
             compliant_that is, able to recognize eight-digit dates with four-digit 
years as
             opposed to two. Otherwise, the computer will not understand that life 
goes
             forward after the year "99" rather than magically skipping back in time 
to
             "00."

             Experts say that it's not exactly clear what problems non-compliant
             computers will create over the next few years. They may make lots of
             mistakes, such as paroling prisoners years early or sending Gen X'ers
             pension checks many decades too soon. Humans may catch many of the
             computers' mistakes, but most humans are too busy. That's why we have
             computers keeping track of things and telling us what to do, like taking
             expired foods and medicines off the shelf.

             Most sources say it is costing businesses between 50› and $2 a line to 
fix the
             codes. It may not sound like much, but all told, it will add up to many
             billions of dollars. Chase Manhattan Bank estimates that it will spend 
$200
             million to $250 million to fix its Y2K problems, and commercial banking 
as
             an industry may spend $9 billion or more, according to the Wall Street
             Journal. The U.S. government will need to spend about $30 billion, says 
the
             Gartner Group, a market-research firm in Stamford, Connecticut.

             Some organizations will decide to replace the millennium-unready systems
             altogether, perhaps spending more at the outset but avoiding costly 
problems
             later. The University of Chicago Hospital System, for example, figured it
             would cost $1.5 million to fix the Y2K problem on a patient-accounting
             system that needed to be replaced anyhow, so it decided to buy a new
             software system for $3 million to $7 million.

             Bottom line: We're looking at a repair/replacement bill of up to $600 
billion
             worldwide by the end of 1999, according to the Gartner Group. That's more
             than the gross national product of Canada.

             Interconnectivity: Passing the Bug

             The Year 2000 Problem affects not only computers (mainframes, minis,
             and micros), but the myriad of microchips embedded in many of our
             products, including airplanes, cars, microwave ovens, etc., points out 
Y2K
             authority John Whitehouse, president of ChangeWise, Inc., in 
Jacksonville,
             Florida. Furthermore, as he notes in his recent audiobook The Year 2000 
Is
             Coming: What Do I Do?, the year 2000 is a leap year, a circumstance that
             also will have at least some consequences: Banks, for example, would fail 
to
             calculate one day's worth of interest (February 29), which is significant
             when you are dealing with billions of dollars.

             Y2K problems are sometimes deeply embedded in "legacy" programs,
             which are the products of the old programming days. Some such programs
             will begin automatically deleting data that is more than two years old, 
warns
             Whitehouse. The work you do on programs such as Excel may be at risk
             unless you get upgraded software.

             Even if you don't think you have a big problem with your own computers,
             or if you solve your own Y2K problems, you will still have to deal with
             countless other individuals, businesses, agencies, and governments who 
may
             not have solved the problem in their systems. Computers, businesses, and
             governments are highly interconnected today: A problem anywhere has the
             potential for global consequences, and there may be many, many problems
             emerging as 2000 arrives.

             Still, there is a potential bright side:

             "For those who come to understand and accept the issues, for those who
             take decisive action, this can be the opportunity of a lifetime," says
             Whitehouse. "As we approach the most catastrophic event the modern
             world has yet faced, proactive companies can gain a significant strategic
             advantage while others fail. And knowledgeable investors can post
             monumental gains while others lose."

             Getting Rich from the Glitch

             A disaster almost always presents profitable opportunities. The hundreds 
of
             billions of dollars spent on fixing the Y2K Problem will wind up in
             somebody's pocket. One pocket could be yours. Expected Y2K winners
             include:

                  Programmers and consultants. Anyone with the technical skills to
                  solve the problem is now in high demand. Y2K guru Peter de Jager
                  identifies a wide variety of consultants ready to provide services,
                  including planning consultants for tools assessment, testing 
consultants,
                  contract service consultants to estimate the costs and plan and
                  implement the code redesign, legal consultants, and recovery
                  consultants. 
                  Information providers, including publishers and Web site
                  developers. The Wall Street Journal, for example, recently sold 
eight
                  pages of advertising in a special section devoted to companies 
offering
                  "Year 2000 Solutions" (February 19, 1998). A variety of consultants
                  and subscription-based Y2K assistance can be found on de Jager's
                  Year 2000 Web site (www.year2000.com). 
                  Investors. Wherever new businesses bloom, investors are sure to see
                  prospects for fast growth. Unfortunately, it's already late in the 
game
                  to invest in Y2K companies: You'd be "buying high," and it's always
                  risky to chase headlines for ideas on short-term speculation. As 
Wall
                  Street Journal writer John R. Dorfman warns about these so-called
                  story stocks, "That's an investment method that has often led 
investors
                  to grief in the past." 
                  Lawyers and litigators. Individuals and businesses stand to lose a 
lot
                  of money and time because of the Y2K Problem; therefore, they will
                  want to sue anybody they consider responsible for creating the
                  problem. If, for example, your life insurance policy is canceled
                  because a computer thinks you're too old, you'll probably want to 
sue
                  someone. 

             Worst-Case Scenarios: Chaos and Crashes

             Pundits have warned of potential disasters IF the Year 2000 Problem is 
not
             fixed in time. It's not clear how seriously to take them, but these 
possibilities
             have been mentioned:

             Food shortages may occur because stores will discard all products that 
have
             passed their freshness expiration dates.

             Some patients may die because medicines and lifesaving devices are
             unavailable. Drugs, like foods, have expiration dates and may be 
discarded
             upon the command of non-Y2K-compliant computers. Medical devices
             such as heart defibrillators are programmed to cease functioning if the 
date
             for maintenance checks has passed.

             Borrowers could default on loans and mortgages as computers add on a
             century's worth of interest rates. Consumers may find they can't make
             purchases because credit-card verification systems misinterpret 
expiration
             dates. Similarly, there may be a cash crisis as automatic teller machines
             freeze up.

             Stock markets could crash because investors fearing Y2K fiscal chaos may
             take their money out of the markets_perhaps in November or December
             1999_as Y2K impends. On the other hand, the crash might create a golden
             opportunity for investors ready to jump into the market when others run 
for
             the hills.

             Crime waves may occur as a general financial crisis creates economic
             hardship and jailed criminals are mistakenly released. One prison has
             already reportedly released criminals prematurely because parole dates 
were
             misinterpreted by computers.

             Other problems and inconveniences could include elevators getting stuck
             and airplanes being grounded, as the dates for maintenance checks appear 
to
             be missed and computers shut the systems down entirely. Date-sensitive
             computer-controlled security systems may fail, causing factories to shut 
and
             bank vaults to lock up. Drivers' licenses could seem to have expired, 
making
             it hard for people to rent cars. Voter registration records may be 
disrupted,
             creating havoc for the 2000 U.S. presidential and congressional 
elections.

             What Should We Do?

             To get started in solving your Y2K problems, John Whitehouse of
             ChangeWise recommends building a "systems inventory." Analyze your
             computer dependency_what do you use to get through the day, what
             outside systems do you depend on? What alternative sources of goods and
             services are there?

             Similar procedures need to be done at home and at work; specifically,
             Whitehouse suggests:

             Individuals and family heads should check out personal items that contain
             computer chips. Examples include heating and air conditioning systems,
             home-security systems, telephone-answering machines, TVs, VCRs, cell
             phones, cars. And of course, your home PC: The operating system itself
             may not work.

             Now test the devices. Enter 2000 in your VCR, or change the system date
             on your PC (after backing up the data). Send letters to manufacturers to 
see
             if their systems are Y2K compliant. Record on inventories where you still
             have risks, and develop a course of action, such as identifying 
alternative
             providers.

             You should also check software such as Access 95, Excel, personal
             schedulers, financial programs like Quicken or Money, communications
             software, etc. And remember that you could experience problems with
             outside services you use: the phone company, utilities, supermarkets, 
banks,
             gas stations, airports.

             "Forget flying to see Grandma on January 1, 2000," warns Whitehouse.
             "Two major airlines have already said they won't be flying." And the
             Federal Aviation Administration has admitted it will be late in meeting 
Y2K
             compliance.

             If you are an investor, your money is in places you can't control, so you
             should inventory all your assets (equity, debt, and fixed tangible). 
Check
             with the companies to find out their Y2K status and record the results.
             Perhaps less than half of U.S. companies have begun addressing the
             problem, and movement is lagging even farther in other countries,
             particularly Third World companies.

             One worry is that there may be runs on banks when people fear the Y2K
             impacts. Whitehouse goes so far as to suggest that investors begin 
hedging
             with fixed tangible assets: "Buy some gold and silver." Businesses should 
set
             up an organizational task force to address the issue, including managers
             from each area of the enterprise. "Problem ownership" should lie with the
             chief financial officer because of the many financial and legal 
implications.
             The task force should consider questions like cost, impacts on daily
             activities, competitors' actions, opportunities, effects on stock prices, 
etc.

             The CFO might ask how the company will be affected, where the money
             will come from to fix it, how cash flow will be impacted, and how
             customers will be impacted. Sales managers might ask what new products
             can be offered. Human-resources directors might ask whether new skills 
will
             be needed and whether the firm's best people will leave. The U.S.
             government, for example, is already concerned about a "brain drain" of
             technology experts leaving the Internal Revenue Service and the Pentagon.
             Each division must then do a systems inventory, find alternatives to 
systems
             and programs that are not compliant, test those alternatives, and affirm 
that
             all trading partners are compliant. "This will enable you to succeed 
where
             your competitors will fail," reassures Whitehouse. De Jager and Bergeon,
             authors of Managing 00, emphasize the need to test applications for their
             ability to handle the year 2000, but recognize that time is running short 
and
             that workloads for the reprogrammers are already overwhelming. They
             recommend giving priority to the applications that are most required for
             your survival, followed by those that give you a competitive edge.

             "Only you can determine whether you will allow yourself to be 'forced' 
not
             to test," write de Jager and Bergeon. "Forgoing testing is never 
acceptable,
             but in the real world, it happens."

             Learning from Y2K

             The lesson of the Year 2000 Problem is obvious: Most of the problems we
             face in the present are the result of someone (or everyone) in the past 
failing
             to think about the future. Y2K is a problem basically because mainframe
             computer programmers paid little attention to the long-term future. While
             saving money by using two-digit codes to enter years instead of four
             (computer memory was expensive in those days), either they never thought
             their programs would still be in use by the year 2000 or they never 
realized
             that computers, unlike fuzzy-thinking humans, would literally interpret 
years
             as having only two digits.

             We can smugly congratulate ourselves for being smarter than our
             technologies, but meanwhile, technology is biting us back.


             About the Author

             Cynthia G. Wagner is managing editor of THE FUTURIST.

             (c) 1998 World Future Society 







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nnburk 
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 15:15:02 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: The Year 2000: Social Chaos or Social Transformation?
Message-ID: <360D63AA.744B@yankton.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



The Year 2000: Social Chaos or Social
                                 Transformation? 

                    by John L. Petersen, Margaret Wheatley, Myron 
Kellner-Rogers 

                    version in PDF (Adobe Acrobat)       Download Acrobat 
      

Editor's Note:  This is a draft of an article scheduled for publication 
in the October 1998 issue of THE FUTURIST.  Due to the
time-sensitive nature of the material, it was posted here to create 
greater awareness of the issue as well as elicit comments and questions
before final publication. Please send your comments and questions to the 
authors at johnp@arlinst.org and the editors at
cwagner@wfs.org .

     The Millenial sun will first rise over human civilization in the 
independent republic of Kiribati, a group of some thirty low
     lying coral islands in the Pacific Ocean that straddle the equator 
and the International Date Line, halfway between Hawaii and
     Australia. This long awaited sunrise marks the dawn of the year 
2000, and quite possibly, the onset of unheralded disruptions
     in life as we know it in many parts of the globe. Kiribati's 81,000 
Micronesians may observe nothing different about this
     dawn; they only received TV in 1989. However, for those who live in 
a world that relies on satellites, air, rail and ground
     transportation, manufacturing plants, electricity, heat, telephones, 
or TV, when the calendar clicks from '99 to '00, we will
     experience a true millennial shift. As the sun moves westward on 
January 1, 2000, as the date shifts silently within millions
     of computerized systems, we will begin to experience our 
computer-dependent world in an entirely new way. We will finally
     see the extent of the networked and interdependent processes we have 
created. At the stroke of midnight, the new millenium
     heralds the greatest challenge to modern society we have yet to face 
as a planetary community. Whether we experience this as
     chaos or social transformation will be influenced by what we do 
immediately. 

     We are describing the year 2000 problem, known as Y2K (K signifying 
1000.) Nicknamed at first "The Millennial Bug,"
     increasing sensitivity to the magnitude of the impending crisis has 
escalated it to "The Millennial Bomb." The problem
     begins as a simple technical error. Large mainframe computers more 
than ten years old were not programmed to handle a
     four digit year. Sitting here now, on the threshold of the year 
2000, it seems incomprehensible that computer programmers
     and microchip designers didn't plan for it. But when these billions 
of lines of computer code were being written, computer
     memory was very expensive. Remember when a computer only had 16 
kilobytes of RAM? To save storage space, most
     programmers allocated only two digits to a year. 1993 is '93' in 
data files, 1917 is '17.' These two-digit dates exist on millions
     of files used as input to millions of applications. (The era in 
which this code was written was described by one programming
     veteran as "the Wild West." Programmers did whatever was required to 
get a product up and working; no one even thought
     about standards.) 

     The same thing happened in the production of microchips as recently 
as three years ago. Microprocessors and other
     integrated circuits are often just sophisticated calculators that 
count and do math. They count many things: fractions of
     seconds, days, inches, pounds, degrees, lumens, etc. Many chips that 
had a time function designed into them were only
     structured for this century. And when the date goes from '99 to '00 
both they and the legacy software that has not been fixed
     will think it is still the 20th century -- not 2000, but 1900. 

     Peter de Jager, who has been actively studying the problem and its 
implications since 1991, explains the computer math
     calculation: "I was born in 1955. If I ask the computer to calculate 
how old I am today, it subtracts 55 from 98 and announces
     that I'm 43. . . But what happens in the year 2000? The computer 
will subtract 55 from 00 and will state that I am minus 55
     years old. This error will affect any calculation that produces or 
uses time spans. . . If you want to sort by date (e.g., 1965,
     1905, 1966), the resulting sequence would be 1905, 1965, 1966. 
However, if you add in a date record such as 2015, the
     computer, which reads only the last two digits of the date, sees 05, 
15, 65, 66 and sorts them incorrectly. These are just two
     types of calculations that are going to produce garbage."1

     The calculation problem explains why the computer system at Marks & 
Spencer department store in London recently
     destroyed tons of food during the process of doing a long term 
forecast. The computer read 2002 as 1902. Instead of four more
     years of shelf life, the computer calculated that this food was 
ninety-six years old. It ordered it thrown out.2

     A similar problem happened recently in the U.S. at the warehouse of 
a freeze dried food manufacturer. But Y2K is not about
     wasting good food. Date calculations affect millions more systems 
than those that deal with inventories, interest rates, or
     insurance policies. Every major aspect of our modern infrastructure 
has systems and equipment that rely on such
     calculations to perform their functions. We are dependent on 
computerized systems that contain date functions to effectively
     manage defense, transportation, power generation, manufacturing, 
telecommunications, finance, government, education,
     healthcare. The list is longer, but the picture is clear. We have 
created a world whose efficient functioning in all but the
     poorest and remotest areas is dependent on computers. It doesn't 
matter whether you personally use a computer, or that most
     people around the world don't even have telephones. The world's 
economic and political infrastructures rely on computers.
     And not isolated computers. We have created dense networks of 
reliance around the globe. We are networked together for
     economic and political purposes. Whatever happens in one part of the 
network has an impact on other parts of the network.
     We have created not only a computer-dependent society, but an 
interdependent planet. 

     We already have frequent experiences with how fragile these systems 
are, and how failure cascades through a networked
     system. While each of these systems relies on millions of lines of 
code that detail the required processing, they handle their
     routines in serial fashion. Any next step depends on the preceding 
step. This serial nature makes systems, no matter their
     size, vulnerable to even the slightest problem anywhere in the 
system. In 1990, ATT's long distance system experienced
     repeated failures. At that time, it took two million lines of 
computer code to keep the system operational. But these millions of
     lines of code were brought down by just three lines of faulty code.

     And these systems are lean; redundancies are eliminated in the name 
of efficiency. This leanness also makes the system
     highly vulnerable. In May of this year, 90% of all pagers in the 
U.S. crashed for a day or longer because of the failure of one
     satellite. Late in 1997, the Internet could not deliver email to the 
appropriate addresses because bad information from their
     one and only central source corrupted their servers. 

     Compounding the fragility of these systems is the fact that we can't 
see the extent of our interconnectedness. The networks
     that make modern life possible are masked by the technology. We only 
see the interdependencies when the relationships are
     disrupted -- when a problem develops elsewhere and we notice that we 
too are having problems. When Asian markets failed
     last year, most U.S. businesses denied it would have much of an 
impact on our economy. Only recently have we felt the extent
     to which Asian economic woes affect us directly. Failure in one part 
of a system always exposes the levels of
     interconnectedness that otherwise go unnoticed-we suddenly see how 
our fates are linked together. We see how much we
     are participating with one another, sustaining one another. 

     Modern business is completely reliant on networks. Companies have 
vendors, suppliers, customers, outsourcers (all, of
     course, managed by computerized data bases.) For Y2K, these highly 
networked ways of doing business create a terrifying
     scenario. The networks mean that no one system can protect itself 
from Y2K failures by just attending to its own internal
     systems. General Motors, which has been working with extraordinary 
focus and diligence to bring their manufacturing plants
     up to Year 2000 compliance, (based on their assessment that they 
were facing catastrophe,) has 100,000 suppliers worldwide.
     Bringing their internal systems into compliance seems nearly 
impossible, but what then do they do with all those vendors who
     supply parts? GM experiences production stoppages whenever one key 
supplier goes on strike. What is the potential number
     of delays and shutdowns possible among 100,000 suppliers? 

     The nature of systems and our history with them paints a chilling 
picture of the Year 2000. We do not know the extent of the
     failures, or how we will be affected by them. But we do know with 
great certainty that as computers around the globe respond
     or fail when their calendars record 2000, we will see clearly the 
extent of our interdependence. We will see the ways in which
     we have woven the modern world together through our technology. 

What, me worry? 

     Until quite recently, it's been difficult to interest most people in 
the Year 2000 problem. Those who are publicizing the
     problem (the Worldwide Web is the source of the most extensive 
information on Y2K,) exclaim about the general lack of
     awareness, or even the deliberate blindness that greets them. In our 
own investigation among many varieties of organizations
     and citizens, we've noted two general categories of response. In the 
first category, people acknowledge the problem but view it
     as restricted to a small number of businesses, or a limited number 
of consequences. People believe that Y2K affects only a few
     industries-primarily finance and insurance-seemingly because they 
deal with dates on policies and accounts. Others note
     that their organization is affected by Y2K, but still view it as a 
well-circumscribed issue that is being addressed by their
     information technology department. What's common to these comments 
is that people hold Y2K as a narrowly-focused,
     bounded problem. They seem oblivious to the networks in which they 
participate, or to the systems and interconnections of
     modern life. 

     The second category of reactions reveals the great collective faith 
in technology and science. People describe Y2K as a
     technical problem, and then enthusiastically state that human 
ingenuity and genius always finds a way to solve these type of
     problems. Ecologist David Orr has noted that one of the fundamental 
beliefs of our time is that technology can be trusted to
     solve any problem it creates.3 If a software engineer goes on TV 
claiming to have created a program that can correct all
     systems, he is believed. After all, he's just what we've been 
expecting. 

     And then there is the uniqueness of the Year 2000 problem. At no 
other time in history have we been forced to deal with a
     deadline that is absolutely non-negotiable. In the past, we could 
always hope for a last minute deal, or rely on round-the-clock
     bargaining, or pray for an eleventh hour savior. We have never had 
to stare into the future knowing the precise date when the
     crisis would materialize. In a bizarre fashion, the inevitability of 
this confrontation seems to add to people's denial of it. They
     know the date when the extent of the problem will surface, and 
choose not to worry about it until then. 

     However, this denial is quickly dissipating. Information on Y2K is 
expanding exponentially, matched by an escalation in
     adjectives used to describe it. More public figures are speaking 
out. This is critically important. With each calendar tick of
     this time, alternatives diminish and potential problems grow. We 
must develop strategies for preparing ourselves at all levels
     to deal with whatever Y2K presents to us with the millennium dawn. 

     What we know about Y2K 

          a technological problem that cannot be solved by technology 
          the first-ever, non-negotiable deadline 
          a systemic crisis that no one can solve alone 
          a crisis that transcends boundaries and hierarchies 
          an opportunity to evoke greater capacity from individuals and 
organizations 
          an opportunity to simplify and redesign major systems 


                          Figure 1 

The Y2K problem, really 

     We'd like to describe in greater detail the extent of Y2K. As a 
global network of interrelated consequences, it begins at the
     center with the technical problem, legacy computer codes and 
embedded microchips. (see Figure One) For the last thirty
     years thousands of programmers have been writing billions of lines 
of software code for the computers on which the world's
     economy and society now depend. Y2K reporter Ed Meagher describes 
"old, undocumented code written in over 2500 different
     computer languages and executed on thousands of different hardware 
platforms being controlled by hundreds of different
     operating systems . . . [that generate] further complexity in the 
form of billions of six character date fields stored in millions
     of databases that are used in calculations."4 The Gartner Group, a 
computer-industry research group, estimates that
     globally, 180 billion lines of software code will have to be 
screened.5 Peter de Jager notes that it is not unusual for a company
     to have more than 100,000,000 lines of code--the IRS, for instance, 
has at least eighty million lines. The Social Security
     Administration began working on its thirty million lines of code in 
1991. After five years of work, in June, 1996, four
     hundred programmers had fixed only six million lines. The IRS has 
88,000 programs on 80 mainframe computers to debug.
     By the end of last year they had cleaned up 2,000 programs.6 Capers 
Jones, head of Software Productivity Research, a firm
     that tracks programmer productivity, estimates that finding, fixing 
and testing all Y2K-affected software would require over
     700,000 person-years.7 Programmers have been brought out of 
retirement and are receiving extraordinary wages and
     benefits to stick with this problem, but we are out of time. There 
aren't nearly enough programmers nor hours remaining
     before January 1, 2000. 

     Also at the center of this technical time bomb are the embedded 
microprocessors. There are somewhat over a billion of these
     hardware chips located in systems worldwide. They sustain the 
world's manufacturing and engineering base. They exist in
     traffic lights, elevators, water, gas, and electricity control 
systems. They're in medical equipment and military and navigation
     systems. America's air traffic control system is dependent upon 
them. They're located in the track beds of railroad systems
     and in the satellites that circle the earth. Global 
telecommunications are heavily dependent on them. Modern cars contain
     about two dozen microprocessors. The average American comes in 
contact with seventy microprocessors before noon every
     day. Many of these chips aren't date sensitive, but a great number 
are, and engineers looking at long ago installed systems
     don't know for sure which is which. To complicate things further, 
not all chips behave the same. Recent tests have shown that
     two chips of the same model installed in two different computers but 
performing the same function are not equally sensitive to
     the year-end problem. One shuts down and the other doesn't. 

     It is impossible to locate all of these chips in the remaining 
months, nor can we replace all those that are identified. Those
     more than three years old are obsolete and are probably not 
available in the marketplace. The solution in those cases is to
     redesign and remanufacture that part of the system -- which often 
makes starting over with new equipment the best option.
     That is why some companies are junking their computer systems and 
spending millions, even hundreds of millions, to replace
     everything. It at least ensures that their internal systems work. 

     At issue is time, people, money, and the nature of systems. These 
technical problems are exacerbated by government and
     business leaders who haven't yet fully understood the potential 
significance of this issue for their own companies, to say
     nothing of the greater economic implications. The U.S. leads all 
other developed nations in addressing this issue, minimally
     by six to nine months. Yet in a recent survey of American corporate 
chief information officers, 70% of them expressed the
     belief that even their companies would not be completely prepared 
for Y2K. Additionally, 50% of them acknowledged that they
     would not fly during January 2000. If America is the global leader 
in Y2K efforts, these CIO comments are indeed sobering. 

     The economic impacts for the global economy are enormous and 
unknown. The Gartner Group projects that the total cost of
     dealing with Y2K worldwide will be somewhere between $300 billion to 
$600 billion -- and these are only direct costs
     associated with trying to remedy the problem. (These estimates keep 
rising every quarter now.) The Office of Management
     and Budget (OMB), in a recently released Quarterly Report, estimated 
total government Y2K expense at $3.9 billion. This
     figure was based only on federal agency estimates; the OMB warned 
that this estimate might be as much as 90% too low
     considering the increasing labor shortage and expected growing 
remediation costs as January 1, 2000 looms nearer. And in
     June of this year, it was announced that federal agencies had 
already spent five billion dollars. Of twenty-four agencies,
     fifteen reported being behind schedule. 

     These numbers don't consider the loss of output caused by diverting 
resources to forestall this crisis. In more and more
     businesses, expenditures for R&D and modernization are being 
diverted to Y2K budgets. Business Week in March of 1998
     estimated that the Year 2000 economic damage alone would be $119 
billion. When potential lawsuits and secondary effects
     are added to this -- people suing over everything from stalled 
elevators to malfunctioning nuclear power plants -- the cost
     easily could be over $1 trillion. 

     But these problems and estimates don't begin to account for the 
potential impact of Y2K. The larger significance of this bomb
     becomes apparent when we consider the next circle of the global 
network-- the organizational relationships that technology
     makes possible. 

Who works with whom? 

     The global economy is dependent upon computers both directly and 
indirectly. Whether it's your PC at home, the workstation
     on a local area network, or the GPS or mobile telephone that you 
carry, all are integral parts of larger networks where
     computers are directly connected together. As we've learned, failure 
in a single component can crash the whole system; that
     system could be an automobile, a train, an aircraft, an electric 
power plant, a bank, a government agency, a stock exchange, an
     international telephone system, the air traffic control system. If 
every possible date-sensitive hardware and software bug
     hasn't been fixed in a larger system, just one programming glitch or 
one isolated chip potentially can bring down the whole
     thing. 

     While there isn't enough time or technical people to solve the Y2K 
problem before the end of next year, we might hope that
     critical aspects of our infrastructure are tackling this problem 
with extreme diligence. But this isn't true. America's electric
     power industry is in danger of massive failures, as described in 
Business Week's February '98 cover story on Y2K. They
     report that "electric utilities are only now becoming aware that 
programmable controllers -- which have replaced mechanical
     relays in virtually all electricity-generating plants and control 
rooms -- may behave badly or even freeze up when 2000
     arrives. Many utilities are just getting a handle on the problem." 
It's not only nuclear power plants that are the source of
     concern, although problems there are scary enough. In one Year 2000 
test, notes Jared S.Wermiel, leader of the Y2K effort
     at the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, the security computer at a 
nuclear power plant failed by opening vital areas that are
     normally locked. Given the complexity and the need to test, "it 
wouldn't surprise me if certain plants find that they are not
     Year 2000-ready and have to shut down."8 

     Other electric utility analysts paint a bleaker picture. Rick 
Cowles, who reports on the electric utility industry, said at the
     end of February: "Not one electric company [that he had talked to] 
has started a serious remediation effort on its embedded
     controls. Not one. Yes, there's been some testing going on, and a 
few pilot projects here and there, but for the most part it is
     still business-as-usual, as if there were 97 months to go, not 97 
weeks.9 After attending one industry trade show, Cowle
     stated that, "Based on what I learned at DistribuTECH '98, I am 
convinced there is a 100% chance that a major portion of the
     domestic electrical infrastructure will be lost as a result of the 
Year 2000 computer and embedded systems problem. The
     industry is fiddling whilst the infrastructure burns." 10

     The Federal Aviation Administration is also very vulnerable but 
quite optimistic. "We're on one hand working to get those
     computers Year 2000 compliant, but at the same time we're working on 
replacing those computers," said Paul Takemoto, a
     spokesman for the FAA in early '98. At the twenty Air Route Traffic 
Control Centers, there is a host computer and a backup
     system. All forty of these machines --mid-'80s vintage IBM 3083 
mainframes--are affected. And then there are the satellites
     with embedded chips, individual systems in each airplane, and air 
traffic control systems around the globe. Lufthansa already
     has announced it will not fly its aircraft during the first days of 
2000. 

Who else is affected? 

     But the interdependency problem extends far beyond single 
businesses, or even entire industries. Indirect relationships
     extend like tentacles into many other networks, creating the 
potential for massive disruptions of service. 

     Let's hope that your work organization spends a great deal of money 
and time to get its entire information system compliant.
     You know yours is going to function. But on the second of January 
2000 the phone calls start. It's your banker. "There's
     been a problem," he says. They've lost access to your account 
information and until they solve the problem and get the backup
     loaded on the new system, they are unable to process your payroll. 
"We don't have any idea how long it will take," the
     president says. 

     Then someone tells you that on the news there's a story that that 
the whole IRS is down and that they can neither accept nor
     process tax information. Social Security, Federal Housing, 
Welfare-none of these agencies are capable of issuing checks
     for the foreseeable future. Major airlines aren't flying, waiting to 
see if there is still integrity in the air traffic control
     system. And manufacturing across the country is screeching to a halt 
because of failures in their supply chain. (After years
     of developing just in time (JIT) systems, there is no inventory on 
hand-suppliers have been required to deliver parts as
     needed. There is no slack in these systems to tolerate even minor 
delivery problems.) Ground and rail transport have been
     disrupted, and food shortages appear within three to six days in 
major metropolises. Hospitals, dealing with the failure of
     medical equipment, and the loss of shipments of medicine, are forced 
to deny non-essential treatment, and in some cases are
     providing essential care in pre-technical ways. 

     It's a rolling wave of interdependent failures. And it reaches 
across the country and the world to touch people who, in most
     cases, didn't know they were linked to others. Depending on what 
systems fail, very few but strategically placed failures would
     initiate a major economic cascade. Just problems with power 
companies and phone systems alone would cause real havoc.
     (This spring, a problem in ATT rendered all credit card machines 
useless for a day. How much revenue was lost by
     businesses?) If only twenty percent of businesses and government 
agencies crash at the same time, major failures would
     ensue. 

     In an interdependent system, solving most of the problem is no 
solution. As Y2K reporter Ed Meagher describes: 

          It is not enough to solve simply "most of these problems." The 
integration of these systems requires that we
          solve virtually all of them. Our ability as an economy and as a 
society to deal with disruptions and breakdowns
          in our critical systems is minuscule. Our worst case scenarios 
have never envisioned multiple, parallel
          systemic failures. Just in time inventory has led to just in 
time provisioning. Costs have been squeezed out of
          all of our critical infrastructure systems repeatedly over time 
based on the ubiquity and reliability of these
          integrated systems. The human factor, found costly, slow, and 
less reliable has been purged over time from our
          systems. Single, simple failures can be dealt with; complex, 
multiple failures have been considered too remote
          a possibility and therefore too expensive to plan for. 11 

     The city of New York began to understand this last September. The 
governor of New York State banned all nonessential IT
     projects to minimize the disruption caused by the year 2000 bomb 
after reading a detailed report that forecasts the
     millennium will throw New York City into chaos, with power supplies, 
schools, hospitals, transport, and the finance sector
     likely to suffer severe disruption. Compounding the city's Y2K risks 
is the recent departure of the head of its year 2000
     project to a job in the private sector.12 

     But of course the anticipated problems extend far beyond U.S. 
shores. In February, the Bangkok Post reported that Phillip
     Dodd, a Unysis Y2K expert, expects that upward of 70% of the 
businesses in Asia will fail outright or experience severe
     hardship because of Y2K. The Central Intelligence Agency supports 
this with their own analysis: "We're concerned about
     the potential disruption of power grids, telecommunications and 
banking services, among other possible fallout, especially in
     countries already torn by political tensions."13 

     A growing number of assessments of this kind have led Dr. Edward 
Yardeni, the chief economist of Deutsche Morgan
     Grenfell, to keep raising the probability of a deep global recession 
in 2000-2001 as the result of Y2K. His present estimate of
     the potential for such a recession now hovers at about 70%, up from 
40% at the end of 1997.14 

How might we respond? 

(To be continued...)







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nnburk 
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 15:15:31 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: The Year 2000: Social Chaos or Social Transformation? (Part 2)
Message-ID: <360D6406.45F0@yankton.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



How might we respond? 

     As individuals, nations, and as a global society, do we have a 
choice as to how we might respond to Y2K, however problems
     materialize? The question of alternative social responses lies at 
the outer edges of the interlocking circles of technology and
     system relationships. At present, potential societal reactions 
receive almost no attention. But we firmly believe that it is the
     central most important place to focus public attention and 
individual ingenuity. Y2K is a technology-induced problem, but it
     will not and cannot be solved by technology. It creates societal 
problems that can only be solved by humans. We must begin
     to address potential social responses. We need to be engaged in this 
discourse within our organizations, our communities,
     and across the traditional boundaries of competition and national 
borders. Without such planning, we will slide into the Year
     2000 as hapless victims of our technology. 

     Even where there is some recognition of the potential disruptions or 
chaos that Y2K might create, there's a powerful dynamic
     of secrecy preventing us from engaging in these conversations. 
Leaders don't want to panic their citizens. Employees don't
     want to panic their bosses. Corporations don't want to panic 
investors. Lawyers don't want their clients to confess to anything.
     But as psychotherapist and information systems consultant Dr. 
Douglass Carmichael has written: 

          Those who want to hush the problem ("Don't talk about it, 
people will panic", and "We don't know for sure.")
          are having three effects. First, they are preventing a more 
rigorous investigation of the extent of the problem.
          Second, they are slowing down the awareness of the intensity of 
the problem as currently understood and the
          urgency of the need for solutions, given the current assessment 
of the risks. Third, they are making almost
          certain a higher degree of ultimate panic, in anger, under 
conditions of shock.15 

     Haven't we yet learned the consequences of secrecy? When people are 
kept in the dark, or fed misleading information, their
     confidence in leaders quickly erodes. In the absence of real 
information, people fill the information vacuum with rumors and
     fear. And whenever we feel excluded, we have no choice but to 
withdraw and focus on self-protective measures. As the veil of
     secrecy thickens, the capacity for public discourse and shared 
participation in solution-finding disappears. People no longer
     believe anything or anybody-we become unavailable, distrusting and 
focused only on self-preservation. Our history with the
     problems created by secrecy has led CEO Norman Augustine to advise 
leaders in crisis to: "Tell the truth and tell it fast."16 

     Behaviors induced by secrecy are not the only human responses 
available. Time and again we observe a much more positive
     human response during times of crisis. When an earthquake strikes, 
or a bomb goes off, or a flood or fire destroys a
     community, people respond with astonishing capacity and 
effectiveness. They use any available materials to save and rescue,
     they perform acts of pure altruism, they open their homes to one 
another, they finally learn who their neighbors are. We've
     interviewed many people who participated in the aftermath of a 
disaster, and as they report on their experiences, it is clear
     that their participation changed their lives. They discovered new 
capacities in themselves and in their communities. They
     exceeded all expectations. They were surrounded by feats of caring 
and courage. They contributed to getting systems restored
     with a speed that defied all estimates. 

     When chaos strikes, there's simply no time for secrecy; leaders have 
no choice but to engage every willing soul. And the field
     for improvisation is wide open-no emergency preparedness drill ever 
prepares people for what they actually end up doing.
     Individual initiative and involvement are essential. Yet 
surprisingly, in the midst of conditions of devastation and fear, people
     report how good they feel about themselves and their colleagues. 
These crisis experiences are memorable because the best of
     us becomes visible and available. We've observed this in America, 
and in Bangladesh, where the poorest of the poor
     responded to the needs of their most destitute neighbors rather than 
accepting relief for themselves. 

     What we know about people in crisis 

          shared purpose and meaning brings people together 
          people display unparalleled levels of creativity and 
resourcefulness 
          people want to help others - individual agendas fade 
immediately 
          people learn instantly and respond at lightning speed 
          the more information people get, the smarter their responses 
          leadership behaviors (not roles) appear everywhere, as needed 
          people experiment constantly to find what works 

Who might we become? 

     As we sit staring into the unknown dimensions of a global crisis 
whose timing is non-negotiable, what responses are available
     to us as a human community? An effective way to explore this 
question is to develop potential scenarios of possible social
     behaviors. Scenario planning is an increasingly accepted technique 
for identifying the spectrum of possible futures that are
     most important to an organization or society. In selecting among 
many possible futures, it is most useful to look at those that
     account for the greatest uncertainty and the greatest impact. For 
Y2K, David Isenberg, (a former AT&T telecommunications
     expert, now at Isen.Com) has identified the two variables which seem 
obvious - the range of technical failures from isolated to
     multiple, and the potential social responses, from chaos to 
coherence. Both variables are critical and uncertain and are
     arrayed as a pair of crossing axes, as shown in Figure 2. When 
displayed in this way, four different general futures emerge.
     In the upper left quadrant, if technical failures are isolated and 
society doesn't respond to those, nothing of significance will
     happen. Isenberg labels this the "Official Future" because it 
reflects present behavior on the part of leaders and
     organizations. 

                               Figure 2.

     The upper right quadrant describes a time where technical failures 
are still isolated, but the public responds to these with
     panic, perhaps fanned by the media or by stonewalling leaders. 
Termed "A Whiff of Smoke," the situation is analogous to the
     panic caused in a theater by someone who smells smoke and spreads an 
alarm, even though it is discovered that there is no
     fire. This world could evolve from a press report that fans the 
flames of panic over what starts as a minor credit card glitch
     (for example), and, fueled by rumors turns nothing into a major 
social problem with runs on banks, etc. 

     The lower quadrants describe far more negative scenarios. 
"Millennial Apocalypse" presumes large-scale technical failure
     coupled with social breakdown as the organizational, political and 
economic systems come apart. The lower left quadrant,
     "Human Spirit" posits a society that, in the face of clear 
adversity, calls on each of us to collaborate in solving the problems of
     breakdown.

     Since essentially we are out of time and resources for preventing 
widespread Y2K failures, a growing number of observers
     believe that the only plausible future scenarios worth contemplating 
are those in the lower half of the matrix. The major
     question before us is how will society respond to what is almost 
certain to be widespread and cascading technological
     failures? 

                               Figure 3.

     Figure 3 above shows a possible natural evolution of the problem. 
Early, perhaps even in '98, the press could start something
     bad long before it was clear how serious the problem was and how 
society would react to it. There could be an interim scenario
     where a serious technical problem turned into a major social problem 
from lack of adaquate positive social response. This
     "Small Theatre Fire" future could be the kind of situation where 
people overreact and trample themselves trying to get to the
     exits from a small fire that is routinely extinguished. 

     If the technical situation is bad, a somewhat more ominous situation 
could evolve where government, exerting no clear positive
     leadership and seeing no alternative to chaos, cracks down so as not 
to lose control (A common historical response to social
     chaos has been for the government to intervene in non-democratic, 
sometimes brutal fashion. "Techno-fascism" is a plausible
     scenario -- governments and large corporations would intervene to 
try to contain the damage -- rather than build for the
     future. This dictatorial approach would be accompanied by secrecy 
about the real extent of the problem and ultimately fueled
     by the cries of distress, prior to 2000, from a society that has 
realized its major systems are about to fail and that it is too late
     to do anything about it. 

Collaboration is our only choice 

     Obviously, the scenario worth working towards is "Human Spirit," a 
world where the best of human creativity is enabled and
     the highest common good becomes the objective. In this world we all 
work together, developing a very broad, powerful,
     synergistic, self-organizing force focused on determining what 
humanity should be doing in the next 18 months to plan for
     the aftermath of the down stroke of Y2K. This requires that we 
understand Y2K not as a technical problem, but as a systemic,
     worldwide event that can only be resolved by new social 
relationships. All of us need to become very wise and very engaged
     very fast and develop entirely new processes for working together. 
Systems issues cannot be resolved by hiding behind
     traditional boundaries or by clinging to competitive strategies. 
Systems require collaboration and the dissolution of existing
     boundaries. Our only hope for healthy responses to Y2K-induced 
failures is to participate together in new collaborative
     relationships. 

     At present, individuals and organizations are being encouraged to 
protect themselves, to focus on solving "their" problem. In
     a system's world, this is insane. The problems are not isolated, 
therefore no isolated responses will work. The longer we
     pursue strategies for individual survival, the less time we have to 
create any viable, systemic solutions. None of the
     boundaries we've created across industries, organizations, 
communities, or nation states give us any protection in the face of
     Y2K. We must stop the messages of fragmentation now and focus 
resources and leadership on figuring out how to engage
     everyone, at all levels, in all systems. 

     As threatening as Y2K is, it also gives us the unparalleled 
opportunity to figure out new and simplified ways of working
     together. GM's chief information officer, Ralph Szygenda, has said 
that Y2K is the cruelest trick ever played on us by
     technology, but that it also represents a great opportunity for 
change.17   It demands that we let go of traditional boundaries
     and roles in the pursuit of new, streamlined systems, ones that are 
less complex than the entangled ones that have evolved over
     the past thirty years. 

     There's an interesting lesson here about involvement that comes from 
the Oklahoma City bombing in 1995. Just a few weeks
     prior the bombing, agencies from all over the city conducted an 
emergency preparedness drill as part of normal civil defense
     practice. They did not prepare themselves for a bomb blast, but they 
did work together on other disaster scenarios. The most
     significant accomplishment of the drill was to create an invisible 
infrastructure of trusting relationships. When the bomb
     went off, that infrastructure displayed itself as an essential 
resource--people could work together easily, even in the face of
     horror. Many lives were saved and systems were restored at an 
unprecedented rate because people from all over the
     community worked together so well. 

     But there's more to this story. One significant player had been 
excluded from the preparedness drill, and that was the FBI. No
     one thought they'd ever be involved in a Federal matter. To this 
day, people in Oklahoma City speak resentfully of the manner
     in which the FBI came in, pushed them aside, and offered no 
explanations for their behavior. In the absence of trusting
     relationships, some form of techno-fascism is the only recourse. 
Elizabeth Dole, as president of the American Red Cross
     commented: "The midst of a disaster is the poorest possible time to 
establish new relationships and to introduce ourselves to
     new organizations . . . . When you have taken the time to build 
rapport, then you can make a call at 2 a.m., when the river's
     rising and expect to launch a well-planned, smoothly conducted 
response."18 

     The scenario of communities and organizations working together in 
new ways demands a very different and immediate
     response not only from leaders but from each of us. We'd like to 
describe a number of actions that need to begin immediately. 

What leaders must do 

     We urge leaders to give up trying to carry this burden alone, or 
trying to reestablish a world that is irretrievably broken. We
     need leaders to be catalysts for the emergence of a new world. They 
cannot lead us through this in traditional ways. No leader
     or senior team can determine what needs to be done. No single group 
can assess the complexity of these systems and where
     the consequences of failure might be felt. The unknown but complex 
implications of Y2K demand that leaders support
     unparalleled levels of participation-more broad-based and inclusive 
than ever imagined. If we are to go through this crisis
     together rather than bunkered down and focused only on individual 
security, leaders must begin right now to convene us.
     The first work of leaders then, is to create the resources for 
groups to come together in conversations that will reveal the
     interconnections. Boundaries need to dissolve. Hierarchies are 
irrelevant. Courageous leaders will understand that they
     must surrender the illusion of control and seek solutions from the 
great networks and communities within their domain.
     They must move past the dynamics of competition and support us in 
developing society-wide solutions. 

     Leaders can encourage us to seek out those we have excluded and 
insist that they be invited in to all deliberations. Leaders
     can provide the time and resources for people to assess what is 
critical for the organization or community to sustain-its
     mission, its functions, its relationships, its unique qualities. 
>From these conversations and plans, we will learn to know one
     another and to know what we value. In sudden crises, people 
instantly share a sense of meaning and purpose. For Y2K, we have
     at least a little lead time to develop a cohesive sense of what 
might happen and how we hope to respond.

     Secrecy must be replaced by full and frequent disclosure of 
information. The only way to prevent driving people into isolated
     and self-preserving behaviors is to entrust us with difficult, even 
fearsome information, and then to insist that we work
     together. 

     No leader anywhere can ignore these needs or delay their 
implementation. 

What communities must do 

     Communities need to assess where they are most vulnerable and 
develop contingency plans. Such assessment and planning
     needs to occur not just within individual locales, but also in 
geographic regions. These activities can be initiated by existing
     community networks, for example, civic organizations such as Lions 
or Rotary, Council of Churches, Chamber of Commerce,
     the United Way. But new and expansive alliances are required, so 
planning activities need quickly to extend beyond traditional
     borders. We envision residents of all ages and experience coming 
together to do these audits and planning. Within each
     community and region, assessments and contingency plans need to be 
in place for disruptions or loss of service for:

          all utilities 
          electricity, water, gas, phones 
          food supplies 
          public safety 
          healthcare 
          government payments to individuals and organizations 
          residents most at risk, e.g. the elderly, those requiring 
medications 

What organizations must do 

     Organizations need to move Y2K from the domain of technology experts 
into the entire organization. Everyone in the
     organization has something important to contribute to this work. 
Assessment and contingency plans need to focus on: 

          how the organization will perform essential tasks in the 
absence of present systems 
          how the organization will respond to failures or slowdowns in 
information and supplies 
          what simplified systems can be developed now to replace 
existing ones 
          relationships with suppliers, customers, clients, 
communities-how we will work together 
          developing systems to ensure open and full access to 
information 

     The trust and loyalty developed through these strategic 
conversations and joint planning will pay enormous dividends later on,
     even if projected breakdowns don't materialize. Corporate and 
community experience with scenario planning has taught a
     important principle: We don't need to be able to predict the future 
in order to be well-prepared for it. In developing scenarios,
     information is sought from all over. People think together about its 
implications and thus become smarter as individuals and
     as teams. Whatever future then materializes is dealt with by people 
who are more intelligent and who know how to work well
     together. 

     And such planning needs to occur at the level of entire industries. 
Strained relationships engendered by competitive
     pressures need to be put aside so that people can collaboratively 
search for ways to sustain the very fabric of their industry.
     How will power grids be maintained nationally? Or national systems 
of food transport? How will supply chains for
     manufacturing in any industry be sustained?

What you can do 

     We urge you to get involved in Y2K, wherever you are, and in 
whatever organizations you participate. We can't leave this
     issue to others to solve for us, nor can we wait for anyone else to 
assert leadership. You can begin to ask questions; you can
     begin to convene groups of interested friends and colleagues; you 
can engage local and business leaders; you can educate
     yourself and others (start with www.Year2000.com and www.Y2K.com for 
up-to-date information and resources.) This is our
     problem. And as an African proverb reminds us, if you think you're 
too small to make a difference, try going to bed with a
     mosquito in the room. 

The crisis is now 

     There is no time left to waste. Every week decreases our options. At 
the mid-May meeting of leaders from the G8, a
     communiqué was issued that expressed their shared sensitivity to the 
"vast implications" of Y2K, particularly in "defense,
     transport, telecommunications, financial services, energy, and 
environmental sectors," and the interdependencies among
     these sectors. (Strangely, their list excludes from concern 
government systems, manufacturing and distribution systems.)
     They vowed to "take further urgent action" and to work with one 
another, and relevant organizations and agencies. But no
     budget was established, and no specific activities were announced. 
Such behavior-the issuing of a communiqué, the promises
     of collaboration and further investigation-are all too common in our 
late 20th century political landscape. 

     But the earth continues to circle the sun, and the calendar 
relentlessly progresses toward the Year 2000. If we cannot
     immediately change from rhetoric to action, from politics to 
participation, if we do not immediately turn to one another and
     work together for the common good, we will stand fearfully in that 
new dawn and suffer consequences that might well have
     been avoided if we had learned to stand together now. 

Copyright 1998 John L. Petersen, Margaret Wheatley, Myron Kellner-Rogers 
(posted with permission)



     John L. Petersen is president of The Arlington Institute, a 
Washington DC area research institute. He is a futurist who
     specializes in thinking about the long range security implications 
of global change. He is author of the award winning book,
     The Road to 2015: Profiles of the Future and his latest book is Out 
of the Blue - Wild Cards and Other Big Future Surprises,
     which deals with potential events such as Y2K. He can be reached at 
703-243-7070 or johnp@arlinst.org 

     Margaret Wheatley and Myron Kellner-Rogers are authors and 
consultants to business. A Simpler Way, their book on
     organizational design was published in 1997. Dr. Wheatley's previous 
book, Leadership & the New Science, was recently
     named one of the 10 best management books ever, and it also was 
voted best management book in 1992 in Industry Week, and
     again in 1995 by a syndicated management columnist. Their consulting 
work takes them these days to Brazil, Mexico, South
     Africa, Australasia and Europe. In the States, they've worked with a 
very wide array of organizations. 



1 See Peter de Jager, www.year2000.com 

2 United Airlines, Flight Talk Network, February 1998 

3 "Slow Knowledge," _______1997. 

4 See "The Complexity Factor" by Ed Meagher at 
www.year2000.com/archive/NFcomplexity.html

5 "Industry Wakes Up to the Year 2000 Menace," Fortune, April 27, 1998 

6 The Washington Post, "If Computer Geeks Desert, IRS Codes Will Be 
ciphers," December 24, 1997 

7 Business Week, March 2, 1998 

8 www.igs.net/~tonyc/y2kbusweek.html 

9 "Industry Gridlock," Rick Cowles, February 27, 1998, 
www.y2ktimebomb.com/PP/RC/rc9808.htm 

10 Cowles, January 23, 1998, ibid www site 

11 The Complexity Factor, Ed Meagher 

12 www.computerweekly.co.uk/news/ll_9_97 

13 REUTER "CIA:Year 2000 to hit basic services: Agency warns that many 
nations aren't ready for disruption," Jim Wolf, May 7, 1998 

14 see http://www.Yardeni.com 

15  www.tmn.com/~doug

16 "Managing the Crisis You Tried to Prevent," Harvard Business Review, 
Nov-Dec. 1995, 158. 

17 In Fortune, April 27, 1998 

18 quoted in "Managing the Crisis You Tried to Prevent," Norman 
Augustine, Harvard Business Review, Nov-Dec 1995, 151. 



To WFS Home






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: CSapronett@aol.com
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 14:54:22 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: faggots
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



My only regret is that I wont get to watch you all burn in hell !!!




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Paul H. Merrill" 
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 15:23:27 +0800
To: CSapronett@aol.com
Subject: Re: faggots
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <360D7655.7B88B561@acm.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Now there is one that isn't clueless.  Not particularly nice, but not
clueless.

PHM

CSapronett@aol.com wrote:
> 
> My only regret is that I wont get to watch you all burn in hell !!!




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 18:33:04 +0800
To: coderpunks@toad.com
Subject: Ueli Maurer's Univ. Stat. Test for Rand No -in C
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980926162749.0082e990@m7.sprynet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





/*
UELI.c

This implements Ueli M Maurer's
"Universal Statistical Test for Random Bit Generators"
using L=16

Accepts a filename on the command line;
writes its results, with other info, to stdout.

Handles input file exhaustion gracefully.

Ref: J. Cryptology v 5 no 2, 1992 pp 89-105
also on the web somewhere.

-David Honig
honig@sprynet.com


Built with Wedit 2.3, lcc-win32
http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~lcc-win32


26 Sept CP Release
Version Notes:

	This version does L=16.  It evolved from an L=8 prototype
	which I ported from the Pascal in the above reference.

	I made the memory usage reasonable
	by replacing Maurer's "block" array
	with the 'streaming' fgetc() call.


Usage:
	UELI filename
	outputs to stdout

*/

#define L 16		// bits per block
#define V (1<
#include 


int main( int argc, char **argv )
{
FILE *fptr;
int i;
int b, c;
int table[V];
float sum=0.0;
int run;

// Human Interface
printf("UELI 26 Sep 98\nL=%d %d %d \n", L, V, MAXSAMP);
if (argc <2)
	{printf("Usage: UELI filename\n"); exit(-1); }
else
	printf("Measuring file %s\n", argv[1]);

// FILE IO
fptr=fopen(argv[1],"rb");
if (fptr == NULL) {printf("Can't find %s\n", argv[1]); exit(-1); }

// INIT
for (i=0; i
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 19:34:15 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: faggots
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 12:48 PM -0700 9/26/98, CSapronett@aol.com wrote:
>My only regret is that I wont get to watch you all burn in hell !!!


Oh, but you will.


--Tim May


(This space left blank pending determ. of acceptability to the gov't.)
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Paul H. Merrill" 
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 18:42:22 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re:
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <360DA54D.92364366@acm.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Anonymous wrote:
> 
> CSapronett@aol.com (note: AOL.COM -- LOL!) wrote:
> >My only regret is that I wont get to watch you all burn in hell !!!
> 
> I see.  Would you mind elaborating?  We are going to burn in hell
> because...? We don't use AOL? We like our privacy? We use cryptosystems
> that you'll never understand in your life time?  Because we know how
> to use (and create) remailers?
> 
<>
Hear!! Hear!!

And so what if we offer to kill people for answering their email, and
whose business is it but ours if we feel that soliciting baby porn is an
appropriate reaction to the insidious act of replying to a message even
if you aren't certain who it is from?

PHM




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 12:40:56 +0800
To: cypherpunks@minder.net
Subject: test - ignore
Message-ID: <199809261743.TAA06323@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



ping




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 13:55:59 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Test [No Reply]
In-Reply-To: <199809250323.WAA17403@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <199809261850.UAA11213@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Thu, 24 Sep 1998 22:23:38 -0500 (CDT)  Jim Choate  wrote:

>Test [No Reply]

And we have a winner for this weeks free AOL account!!  Well done Jim! ;-)









From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 23:56:49 +0800
To: NMIR 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980926215457.00ad1510@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 08:22 PM 9/25/98 BST, NMIR wrote:
>Does anyone have any idea what this guy is on about?.
If you mean "Why does Bill P rant like that", not my problem.

But if you mean "Is the Fatwa against Salman Rushdie over?",
the news has been that the Iranian government has decided
to drop their ~$2M reward for killing him.  That doesn't mean
all of the mullahs have stopped calling for Muslims to
kill him for blasphemy.  But at least the government has
decided good relationships with the Brits are more important
than keeping their more fanatical fanatics happy.
Rushdie was quoted in the press as being very relieved.

If there's cypherpunks relevance to this, it's that cryptographic
privacy and digital cash payments make it easier to publish
controversial material without the threat of violence against you.

		Bill Stewart


>---
>ABQ J 9/24/98 
>Iran May Withdraw
>Writer's Death Threat
>
>LONDON - Author Salman
>Rushdie met with British Foreign
>Office officials Wednesday amid
>reports Iran is preparing to
>withdraw the threat on his life.
>The late Ayatollah Ruhollah
>Khomeini pronounced a "fatwa," death sentence, 
>against Rushdie in
>1989 after the publication of his
>book "Satanic Verses," which many
>Muslims deemed blasphemous.
>Islamic militants then put a $2
>million bounty on Rushdie's head,
>forcing the author to live largely in
>under British police protection.
>---
>
>I THINK that I heard tonight and saw 
>Rushie's picture on TV that the above
>was called off.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 15:25:50 +0800
To: Soren 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980926222349.00b3c100@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote:
>
>> ... The statement says that the IRS mission is to 
>> "provide America's taxpayers top quality service by helping them 
>> understand and meet their tax responsibilities and by applying the 
>> tax law with integrity and fairness to all." 

Cool.  So they'll help me make sure my taxes aren't used irresponsibly, 
and make sure they aren't given to murderers or terrorists, 
or prosecutors and cops attacking people for drug use,
or bureaucrats interfering with legitimate businesses
or distributing stolen money?  
Is this mission statement enforceable, or just hype?   :-)

				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 15:40:10 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199809262036.WAA18977@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Navy fights new hack method

http://www.abcnews.com/sections/tech/CNET/cnet_navyhack980925.html

Tim Clark
CNET NEWS.COM
Hackers are banding together across the globe to mount low-visibility
attacks in an effort to sneak under the radar of security specialists and
intrusion detection software, a U.S. Navy network security team said today. 

Coordinated attacks from up to 15 different locations on several continents
have been detected, and Navy experts believe that the attackers garner
information by probing Navy Web sites and then share it among themselves. 

"These new patterns are really hard to decipher--you need expert forensics
to get the smoking gun," said Stephen Northcutt, head of the Shadow
intrusion detection team at the Naval Surface Warfare Center. "To know
what's really happening will require law enforcement to get hold of the
hackers' code so we can disassemble it." 

The new method involves sending as few as two suspicious probes per hour to
a host computer, a level of interest that usually won't be detected by
standard countermeasures. But by pooling information learned from those
probes, hackers can garner considerable knowledge about a site. 

Northcutt said the new technique for attacks was discovered only this month
and has been detected at Defense Department facilities as well as in
private sector sites, including some outside the United States. 

The Shadow group has posted descriptions of the attacks and
countermeasures, and the information has been forwarded to CERT, which
investigates security attacks. 

"Most intrusion detection systems have a threshold, a radar. These attacks
are intentionally sliding under that threshold so normal intrusion
detection tools will not detect them," said Tim Aldrich, principal analyst
at the Navy facility. 

The Shadow team said that although the new method is harder to detect, it
should not affect sites that are well-secured. But the technique puts sites
with weak security at greater risk. 

The attacks do not involve a new hacker tool or new kind of attack, but
rather represent a low-visibility technique for perpetrating attacks. For
example, one coordinated attack that involved at least 14 locations simply
probed a Web site for security weaknesses without mounting a break-in. 

The Shadow Intrusion Detection team said it cannot determine how many
people might be involved in the attacks--hackers frequently use many
different machines to launch their attacks. But the number of individuals
involved is less important than the technique itself, Northcutt said. 

The technique could be used to scan or mount attacks from more than 100
Internet addresses. The security experts also suggested that makers of
commercial intrusion detection software need to counter the new method. 

"This stealthy probing enables large amounts of parallel firepower, which
means many attack attempts [from many sites] over a short time frame," said
a note distributed by the System Administration Networking and Security
(SANS) Institute. 

Going public with a news of new hacker techniques is somewhat unusual in
the secretive network security community, which often fears that
publicizing attacks before countermeasures are known will tip off attackers
to vulnerabilities. 

"We went public in hopes of raising awareness," Northcutt said. "You're
only going to be able to find stealthy stuff by looking for stealthy stuff." 

But before publicizing the new hacker technique, he added, the Shadow team
had checked to be certain it would not jeopardize any official actions
against the attackers. He also thinks that users of the attack may be caught. 

"If they're working together, it ought to be easier to track them down
because they leave more of a trail," he said. 








  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Alan Olsen 
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 01:17:05 +0800
To: CSapronett@aol.com
Subject: Re: faggots
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980926231001.03ae8a90@clueserver.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 03:48 PM 9/26/98 EDT, CSapronett@aol.com wrote:
>
>My only regret is that I wont get to watch you all burn in hell !!!

"The good Christian should beware of mathematicians and all those who 
make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that mathematicians 
have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and confine 
man in the bonds of Hell." 
St. Augustine
---
|      Bill Clinton - Bringing back the Sixties one Nixon at a time!     |
|"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmermann unites all| Disclaimer:         |
| mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!"  | Ignore the man      |
|                                                  | behind the keyboard.|
|         http://www.ctrl-alt-del.com/~alan/       |alan@ctrl-alt-del.com|




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Paul H. Merrill" 
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 23:04:01 +0800
To: Anonymous 
Subject: Re:
In-Reply-To: <199809270108.DAA19081@replay.com>
Message-ID: <360DE0BD.7BC844AD@acm.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



<>
> 
> Whenever these people troll for flames here they get them one way or
> another. Then it seems Merrill always tries to take the moral high ground
> and show us all his bleeding heart and tell us how we should embrace the
> AOL idiots and cherish them. 

1.  As a matter of fact, I do try to take the moral high ground -- in
all things.  Sorry, it was how I was raised and I do not intend to swith
to seeking the immoral low ground.
2.  I have Never said to embrace and cherish the idiots from AOL.  Just
that some of the actions I have seen are much closer to the immoral low
ground.

> I don't think Merrill ever misses a chance to defend AOL and attack anybody who
> attacks them. 

I do not mean to Defend AOL except from misinformation -- BTW some of
the characteristics attributed to AOL and its software show a great deal
of clueneediness on the part of the "authors" or a need for
reaquaintance with the truth if the folk actually have a clue and
deciuded to spread "other stuff" instead.  OTOH I do try to defend the
innocents be they from AOL or elsewhere from the repercussions of the
spamming scum that (among other things) started the whole sixdegres
episode.

> About a week ago somebody posted a copy or parts of most AOL
> postings which were sent here in the last months. Merrill ignores the part
> about how the posts were classified

I read his classification criteria closely, and read the results of the
classification process.
> and sends back some vague flame accusing
> the author of classing posts he disagreed with as "clueless" then he quotes
> the entire thing back to the list.
> 
Then commented that he had not followed his own criteria.  

> I don't know which is worse. At least the people flaming the AOL wimps are
> funny.

If funny is all you want, may I recommend rec.humor.funny and, in case
you are up on no current events but Clinton, rec.humor.funny.reruns.

And to the brilliant person seeking muff diving pics, gee send a real
address and we'll see what we can do.  (At least he didn't want it for
pre-muff variety.)

PHM




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 17:20:10 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



CSapronett@aol.com (note: AOL.COM -- LOL!) wrote:
>My only regret is that I wont get to watch you all burn in hell !!!

I see.  Would you mind elaborating?  We are going to burn in hell
because...? We don't use AOL? We like our privacy? We use cryptosystems
that you'll never understand in your life time?  Because we know how
to use (and create) remailers?



**

~*--*~

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: HyperReal-Anon 
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 21:05:29 +0800
To: cryptography@c2.net
Subject: Re: ArcotSign (was Re: Does security depend on hardware?)
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Julian,

1. Minor nit-picks should be off-line, not spammed to 3 lists.
2. Tupographical errors should not be nit-picked.
3. Spell check your grammar flames.

and
4. Do what I say, not what I do.

proff@iq.org wrote:
> 
> > >the legitimate user has, excepting the 'remembered secret'. Or is
> > >there anything wrong with my logic?
> >
> > Yes.  There is something wrong with you logic.
> >
> > Bruce
> > **********************************************************************
> > Bruce Schneier, President, Counterpane Systems     Phone: 612-823-1098
> 
> There's something wrong with you grammer.
                                   ^^^^^^^
"grammer" indeed!

> 
> Cheers,
> Julian.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 04:22:06 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Why do we need remailers, anyway?
Message-ID: <20463d5af58cdf2759d132cedbdcfa02@anonymous>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




At 23 Sep 1998 04:27:46 Reeza! wrote:
> anonymouse, 32 bit aohell to boot. you must feel very safe. Yours is hardly
> the type of post that might necessitate the use of a remailer, so it should
> be safe to assume you haven't the courage to stand behind your words, even
> as mild as they are.
> 
> Fuck you too. I suggest you discuss your lack of a spine with the maker.
> See the above for instructions to meet the maker.
> 
> Reeza!

Hello? This is an old topic, but what the heck...

There is a concept cypherpunks have called "Blacknet", which is an
organisation that sells profiles of prospective employees based on
their public comments on the Internet.

This allows employers to filter out undesirables who might or might
not have outgrown their rebellious youth. (You can never be too safe!) 

Now, there are laws making discrimination illegal. But it's hard to *prove*
that an employer based its decision on BlackNet files, isn't it....

The cypherpunk philosophy is to rely on technology to solve the problem, rather
than rely on the government (or anyone else). Cypherpunks write code.

-- an anonymous aol32 user.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 20:12:33 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re:
Message-ID: <199809270108.DAA19081@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Sun, 27 Sep 1998, Reeza! wrote:

>
> At 12:14 AM 9/27/98 +0200, Anonymous wrote:
> >CSapronett@aol.com (note: AOL.COM -- LOL!) wrote:
> >>My only regret is that I wont get to watch you all burn in hell !!!
> >
> >I see.  Would you mind elaborating?  We are going to burn in hell
> >because...? We don't use AOL? We like our privacy? We use cryptosystems
> >that you'll never understand in your life time?  Because we know how
> >to use (and create) remailers?
>
> Don't bother, it is a troll.
>
> Not a very original, or even interesting one either.

Whenever these people troll for flames here they get them one way or
another. Then it seems Merrill always tries to take the moral high ground 
and show us all his bleeding heart and tell us how we should embrace the 
AOL idiots and cherish them. The AOLers get triple effect that way. I don't 
think Merrill ever misses a chance to defend AOL and attack anybody who 
attacks them. About a week ago somebody posted a copy or parts of most AOL 
postings which were sent here in the last months. Merrill ignores the part 
about how the posts were classified and sends back some vague flame accusing 
the author of classing posts he disagreed with as "clueless" then he quotes 
the entire thing back to the list.

I don't know which is worse. At least the people flaming the AOL wimps are
funny.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: updates@olsen.ch (OANDA Member Service)
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 22:20:58 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com
Subject: The Currency Site Member Update
Message-ID: <199809270321.FAA29582@clam.money>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Dear OANDA member,

Updates in this edition:

- Enhancement of Historical and Daily Table
- Improved Personalization of the converters
- Multilanguage Support for Historical and
  Interactive Table
- OANDA co-brands Express by Infoseek

***********************************************************
* This is our second edition of the Member Update. In     *
* the past we have received many suggestions for new      *
* products and services. We hope this newsletter helps    *
* keep you updated on the developments and new releases.  *
* If you do not wish to learn about additional services   *
* and news, please click on the following link            *
* mailto:updates@oanda.com?subject=nofurthernews and send *
* the message without adding any text. Our goal is to     *
* fullfil your wishes and deliver the services you need.  *
***********************************************************

---------------------------------------------------------
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   - http://www.oanda.com/converter/cc_table
Fast Enhanced Interactive Daily Table
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we have adopted the fast cgi approach for both products.
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---------------------------------------------------------
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   Description of manual editing for all converters:
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   Interactive Interface:
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Taken into consideration all the suggestions we have
received, we now offer many personalization possibilities
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of currency information.

---------------------------------------------------------
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and the Interactive Daily Table:
   German
   - http://www.oanda.com/converter/cc_table?lang=de
   - http://www.oanda.com/converter/cc_quotes?lang=de
   French:
   - http://www.oanda.com/converter/cc_table?lang=fr
   - http://www.oanda.com/converter/cc_quotes?lang=fr
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   - http://www.oanda.com/converter/cc_table?lang=it
   - http://www.oanda.com/converter/cc_quotes?lang=it

To serve the needs of our international customers better,
we are constantly expanding our language choices. We have
just recently extended the support of French, Italian
and German to our new products - the Historical Currency
Table and the Interactive Daily Table.

---------------------------------------------------------
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Announced on September 22,Express by Infoseek is a
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updates@oanda.com
http://www.oanda.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 00:14:46 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Clinton's fake apologies (fwd)
Message-ID: <19980927052400.21818.qmail@hades.rpini.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 23 Sep 1998 04:27:46 Reeza! wrote:
> Well, it seems I have an admirer. A follower, anyway. Quoting things I said
> from two separate posts.

I read all the posts to cypherpunks. Some several times to try to
understand what some blowhard is trying to say.

[Re; Clinton]
> I believe the other issues are relevant. ... clear evidence of malfeasance
> in many, and every area should not be ignored ...

My argument was:
1. You can't seriously be this fired up over perjury (post OJ), can you?
2. there have been several topics discussed on cypherpunks that were more odious.
3. Charge him with his big crimes. Don't "Al Capone" him.

Your belief that Starr is leading up to the real issues is compatible with my
(now belaboured) point. I still don't understand what you're trying to add.

> I'm not building up the bogey man, I'm discussing what I see. What I see,
> on every major and minor newstation, is a disgrace. A documented, public
> record disgrace.

Well, this *is* a pathetic reason. You want Clinton impeached because the
media tells you so.

At 23 Sep 1998 04:31:48 Reeza! wrote:
> > -- an anonymous aol32 user.
>
> You must be proud of that sig.

It's a shit magnet. Works, too!

> I'll bet you weren't on the list when the list of deceased CIC bodyguards,
> friends and associates was posted either.
> 
> flush out your head, you aol user. there is more going on here than just
> 'fibbing'.

Fine. charge him with the other things!

As far as the "newby" flame, I've seen that corpse lists here twice recently.
Maybe you've dated yourself? I remember a time without Reeza! posts... 

And there's a sig flame in there, trying to get out. A new low for you, Reeza?

> 
> Reeza!

-- an anonymous aol32 user.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Paul H. Merrill" 
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 05:03:48 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re:
In-Reply-To: <199809270531.HAA09168@replay.com>
Message-ID: <360E36C5.33C7DFDC@acm.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Anonymous wrote:
> 
> Paul H. Merrill wrote:
> 
> > <>
> 
> Yeah, if you quote back over a hundred lines after adding 6, 8, or
> whatever it happened to be.
> 
Comment on this comes later.

> > > About a week ago somebody posted a copy or parts of most AOL
> > > postings which were sent here in the last months. Merrill ignores the part
> > > about how the posts were classified
> >
> > I read his classification criteria closely, and read the results of the
> > classification process.
> > > and sends back some vague flame accusing
> > > the author of classing posts he disagreed with as "clueless" then he quotes
> > > the entire thing back to the list.
> > >
> > Then commented that he had not followed his own criteria.
> 
> And where did he not? A few could be debated. The rest were either written
> so badly that they were incomprehensible, were off-topic, or didn't
> include quoted material in a reply/followup. He also stated that he was
> counting postings which used that '<< >>' scheme as automatically bad,
> which is understandable. Either way, he seemed to be trying to show the
> statistics. Pull one or two postings off of one side and put them on the
> other and the statistics are still pretty bad for AOL.
>
1.  There are lies, damn lies, and statistics. 
2.  So if the quoted material is included it's bad and if it is not
included it's bad. I think I see the general idea.  Use the rules
appropriate for complaining about whoever you want to complain about.
3.  And what I said was along the lines of most were justified, but some
showed his lack of clues.  Merely being incomprehensible to a person
means little if the person is a little clue-shy.  Badly written is a bad
thing.

> > > I don't know which is worse. At least the people flaming the AOL wimps are
> > > funny.
> >
> > If funny is all you want, may I recommend rec.humor.funny and, in case
> > you are up on no current events but Clinton, rec.humor.funny.reruns.
> 
> No, I want a Cypherpunks list which discusses political issues,
> cryptography, and things related to that. Since this is the Cypherpunks
> list, we aren't going to censor on the basis of content or origin point.
>
And the general degradation of our society to the level that taking the
moral ground is something to be ridiculed is not a political issue?
 
> If all you want to do is defend AOL and their ilk, may I recommend
> comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy and alt.aol-sucks.
> 
I'll pass, thanks anyway.

> > And to the brilliant person seeking muff diving pics, gee send a real
> > address and we'll see what we can do.  (At least he didn't want it for
> > pre-muff variety.)
> 
> Muff diving pics? Do we want to know? Serious questions.

That comment was in reference to two private (and anonymous)posts
purporting to be AOL weenies seeking such things.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 00:41:52 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re:
Message-ID: <199809270531.HAA09168@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Paul H. Merrill wrote:

> <>

Yeah, if you quote back over a hundred lines after adding 6, 8, or
whatever it happened to be.

> > About a week ago somebody posted a copy or parts of most AOL
> > postings which were sent here in the last months. Merrill ignores the part
> > about how the posts were classified
>
> I read his classification criteria closely, and read the results of the
> classification process.
> > and sends back some vague flame accusing
> > the author of classing posts he disagreed with as "clueless" then he quotes
> > the entire thing back to the list.
> >
> Then commented that he had not followed his own criteria.

And where did he not? A few could be debated. The rest were either written
so badly that they were incomprehensible, were off-topic, or didn't
include quoted material in a reply/followup. He also stated that he was
counting postings which used that '<< >>' scheme as automatically bad,
which is understandable. Either way, he seemed to be trying to show the
statistics. Pull one or two postings off of one side and put them on the
other and the statistics are still pretty bad for AOL.

> > I don't know which is worse. At least the people flaming the AOL wimps are
> > funny.
>
> If funny is all you want, may I recommend rec.humor.funny and, in case
> you are up on no current events but Clinton, rec.humor.funny.reruns.

No, I want a Cypherpunks list which discusses political issues,
cryptography, and things related to that. Since this is the Cypherpunks
list, we aren't going to censor on the basis of content or origin point.

If all you want to do is defend AOL and their ilk, may I recommend
comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy and alt.aol-sucks.

> And to the brilliant person seeking muff diving pics, gee send a real
> address and we'll see what we can do.  (At least he didn't want it for
> pre-muff variety.)

Muff diving pics? Do we want to know? Serious questions.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Gillogly 
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 10:08:34 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Boxer and Fong on encryption
Message-ID: <360E557D.E8C49F00@acm.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



For California types: Barbara Boxer and Matt Fong responding to questions
in today's SJMC news:

  HI-TECH ISSUES

  1. Did the administration's July 7 decision to let software
  companies export encryption software to financial institutions in
  certain counties go far enough toward relaxing the rules on
  encryption exports? Why/why not?

  BOXER: I am a cosponsor of Senator Burns' Pro-CODE legislation,
  which prohibits the Secretary of Commerce from putting any restrictions
  on the export of encrypted items -- regardless of bit or key length. The
  administration's proposal did not go far enough at all.

  FONG: The administration's new policy simply does not go far enough.
  The administration is rightfully worried about national security, but the
  Genie is out of the bottle. While Clinton has stuck to his restrictive
export
  policy on encryption software, foreign encryption products have become
  more sophisticated and more price competitive. US companies should be
  allowed to export encryption software if similar products are already
  available by foreign competitors.

We'd see more contrast with Feinstein's answer.  Too bad  not
running in this race.

-- 
	Jim Gillogly
	Mersday, 6 Winterfilth S.R. 1998, 15:05
	12.19.5.9.19, 3 Cauac 12 Chen, First Lord of Night




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Reeza! 
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 18:54:17 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re:
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980927094943.00832610@205.83.192.13>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 12:14 AM 9/27/98 +0200, Anonymous wrote:
>CSapronett@aol.com (note: AOL.COM -- LOL!) wrote:
>>My only regret is that I wont get to watch you all burn in hell !!!
>
>I see.  Would you mind elaborating?  We are going to burn in hell
>because...? We don't use AOL? We like our privacy? We use cryptosystems
>that you'll never understand in your life time?  Because we know how
>to use (and create) remailers?

Don't bother, it is a troll.

Not a very original, or even interesting one either.

Reeza!

"...The world was on fire, but no one could save me but you...
	Strange what desire will make foolish people do...
		(and the background vocalists sang)
			This world is only gonna break your heart...."

					==C.I.==




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 11:47:16 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Test [no reply] (should be last one)
Message-ID: <199809271649.LAA04020@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Test [no reply]


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 12:25:58 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: US Says Bomb Suspect Had Nuclear Ambitions
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Delivered-To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
X-Sender: believer@telepath.com
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 11:03:36 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com
From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: US Says Bomb Suspect Had Nuclear Ambitions
Mime-Version: 1.0
Sender: owner-ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
Precedence: list
Reply-To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  Chicago Tribune
http://chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/article/0,1051,SAV-9809270407,00.
html

U.S. SAYS BOMB SUSPECT HAD NUCLEAR AMBITIONS

 From Tribune News Services
 September 27, 1998

 AFRICA -- American authorities have
 charged that a person described as a senior
 deputy to Osama bin Laden, the Saudi exile
 suspected in last month's bombings of two
 U.S. Embassies in East Africa, made
 significant efforts on behalf of the bin Laden
 group in 1993 to develop nuclear weapons.

 The authorities said that, in at least one
 case, there was evidence of documents
 relating to a proposed purchase of enriched
 uranium, but they did not say whether the
 group obtained uranium.

 The allegations, concerning Mamdouh
 Mahmud Salim, also assert that bin Laden
 had an official agreement with the Iranian
 government and with Sudan's ruling party to
 oppose the United States.

 They also suggest that the U.S. had
 penetrated the bin Laden organization and
 learned detailed information in 1996.

 The allegations were contained in newly
 unsealed court papers that charged Salim
 with conspiracy to murder and to use
 weapons of mass destruction against
 Americans overseas, including those in
 Saudi Arabia, Yemen and Somalia.

 Salim was arrested in Germany a week ago
 after flying there from Sudan. The U.S. said
 Friday it will seek his extradition to face
 charges in New York City.

 The government also asserted for the first
 time in court papers that the Iranian
 government had entered into a formal
 three-way "working agreement" with bin
 Laden and the National Islamic Front of the
 Sudan to "work together against the United
 States, Israel and the West." The front is the
 ruling party in Sudan.

 The Aug. 7 bombings of the U.S.
 Embassies in Kenya and Tanzania killed
 more than 250 people.
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




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with the message:
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--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "BigStar.com" 
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 13:19:03 +0800
To: Cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Website owner/administrator
Message-ID: <199809271715.NAA21710@waterfence.bigstar.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Join the BigStar Network!

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=========================================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Paul H. Merrill" 
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 13:36:51 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re:
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <360EAEAA.DC9178BA@acm.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Anonymous lo14 wrote:
> 
> Paul H. Merrill wrote:
> 
> >1.  There are lies, damn lies, and statistics.
> 
> Nice cliche. Unfortunately, it doesn't say anything at all.
> 
More formally, numbers and subtext that sound like statistical
terminology but do not follow proper statistical procedures concerning
sampling of the population and non-biased criteria can be formulated to
say whatever one wshed to be said.  The "statistics" in this case are of
that nature.  (That is the techie translation of the quote given above.)

> >2.  So if the quoted material is included it's bad and if it is not
> >included it's bad. I think I see the general idea.  Use the rules
> >appropriate for complaining about whoever you want to complain about.
> 
> You got it half right. If quoted material is included, it's good. If no
> quoted material is included, it's bad. If quoted material is included but it
> uses the '<< >>' style, it's bad. If a few hundred lines are quoted and six
> added, it's bad. This was explained to you twice; once in the post you're
> responding to, and once in that posting with the AOL quotes. You're
> conveniently ignoring that and you're playing dumb with regard to network
> etiquette. Maybe you aren't just pretending.
> 
Precisely what part of the "statistician's" garbage Should Have Been
Included?  It held no structure to be subdivided, nor did it have
immensely valuable protions to be directly commented upon.  In point of
fact, the total quote methodology was used in "protest" of his
classifying non-quotes as clueless.  The appropriate proportion to be
quoted is a matter of taste and understandability.

> AOL users originally didn't quote at all, they claimed because of software
> constraints. AOL users complained and used the fact that their ISP was lame
> as an excuse for not getting another one. Other net users complained. AOL
> responded by using the '<< >>' quoting style, which was effectively giving
> the rest of the net the bird.
> 
In actuallity, AOL EMail allows for either quoting style to be used.

> If AOL didn't cater to every moron out there, and if AOL didn't keep running
> stupid ads with claims like "AOL is the Internet!", and if AOL wasn't
> sending things like requests for Real Player all over the net, and if AOL
> didn't do things to deliberately piss everyone else off, they'd have a much
> better reputation. Maybe the first two can be written off as simple
> marketting, and maybe the third can be written off as the results of that
> marketting, but there is no excuse for the fourth. All four of those are
> what gets AOL flamed, kill filed, ignored, insulted, and shunned.
> 
And I suppose that it would be appropriate for me to take out my feeling
for everyting that anyone running or using an anonymous remailer does on
anyone who uses, runs, or support anonymous remailers?

> >3.  And what I said was along the lines of most were justified, but some
> >showed his lack of clues.  Merely being incomprehensible to a person
> >means little if the person is a little clue-shy.  Badly written is a bad
> >thing.
> 
> There were one or two which may have been questionable. The rest of them
> fell into his criteria quite well. That's unless you want to claim that
> requests for stickers, CDs, and the rest actually express some subtle
> political point other than to say "I'm a moron." I ensure you, if "We're
> morons" was the point the AOL posters in question were trying to make, their
> message came through quite well. Maybe "you got it?" was actually a secret
> code.
> 
I repeat:And what I said was along the lines of most were justified, but
some
         showed his lack of clues.
We both said the same thing, except you said questionable and I said
showed lack of clues.

> >> > > I don't know which is worse. At least the people flaming the AOL wimps are
> >> > > funny.
> >> >
> >> > If funny is all you want, may I recommend rec.humor.funny and, in case
> >> > you are up on no current events but Clinton, rec.humor.funny.reruns.
> >>
> >> No, I want a Cypherpunks list which discusses political issues,
> >> cryptography, and things related to that. Since this is the Cypherpunks
> >> list, we aren't going to censor on the basis of content or origin point.
> >>
> >And the general degradation of our society to the level that taking the
> >moral ground is something to be ridiculed is not a political issue?
> 
> I was refering to the spam from AOL, Sixdegrees, the "child molestor"
> spammers, and their like. The responses to that, including your's, are
> political speech like you describe. What you're being ridiculed for is,
> almost without fail, defending every AOL weenie and spam site which comes
> onto this list.
> 
I have never defended a spam site to my knowledge.  sixdegrees was not
spam.  It was a requested service.  It's just that the requester was not
authorized to make the request.  My commentary amounted to attack the
offending party, not the other offended parties.

> The child molestor spammers may be able to claim that it isn't their fault
> because they're using lame software, but if they use swiss cheese they
> shouldn't be surprised when the holes are exploited. I'm not saying it's
> very ethical to exploit them, but it isn't surprising.
> 
Actually, the baby porn I referred to was purportedly posted by Timothy
C May.

> Paul, with regard to the rest of this, it's obvious that you're either
> trolling or are yourself severely clue-shy, and you aren't worth a response
> anymore. Your #2 is proof enough of that. #3 is pretty good evidence too.

Actually, neither.  I don't like lies and I don't like seeing the wrong
people get battered for wrongdoings.  I do find it mildly amusing that
noone posted anything to the jerk that signed up as Joe Cypherpunk. 
(That one definitely lives under a bridge.)

PHM




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Paul H. Merrill" 
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 13:31:55 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Where I mail through and from  Was "Re:"
Message-ID: <360EAF59.5BBBB6B7@acm.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Another method of discerning that information would have been to
actually read my posts which daid the same damn thing.  BTW, I lobbied
to have the server closed off when I worked for the school, but they
decided that was just a little too paranoid for them.

PHM




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Paul H. Merrill" 
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 15:54:44 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re:
In-Reply-To: <8b290243deab0d40b2006a5aaf21f9e9@anonymous>
Message-ID: <360ED0D0.FD404165@acm.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



<>
> I can't speak for Paul, but I figure that he's probably doing what he once
> said that he is, and using a modem link to AOL, using AOL for a routing
> service, then routing mail through the relay at CES. I don't know why
> someone would want to do that if they're sitting on a university network,
> but it doesn't matter much.

I only sat on a university network at work.  (the admin machine was
mine.)  Alas I no longer work there.  Shoot, I no longer work in that
state.  But it took longer to plug my computer back togeteher in the
motel room here than it did to get on the air with AOL here.
> 
> Can we have some signal somewhere, please?
> 
Certainly.  I just hate to leave things uncommented when they talk about
me.  I have made that mistake in the past (ignoring what people say
about me) and have had cause to regret it.

PHM

PHM




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "James A. Donald" 
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 20:03:41 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Cypherpunks defeat?
In-Reply-To: <199809231921.VAA12284@replay.com>
Message-ID: <4.0.2.19980927162224.00bb9d80@shell11.ba.best.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



    --
Anonymous wrote:
> Most cypherpunks have become disillusioned about their
> dreams, and you will seldom hear them defend the notion
> that cryptography offers any kind of alternative to a
> society based on coercion.  The past few years have been
> hard ones.  The failure of digital cash, [....]
>
> Is the cypherpunks dream dead?  Is the movement over?
>
> Maybe it is time to give up. 

We are not defeated.

We have won many key victories, and only one, though the
biggest one, remains to be accomplished.

Our failures have had obvious and remediable causes.

Few people use encryption technology today, because few
people have real need of it.

Few people have real need of it, because there is no
reasonably liquid net money. People are not making, spending,
transferring, and promising, money through the net, so they
have little need to encrypt their messages or care for the
reputation of their nyms.

And that is the big remaining battle.

Net money.  Net money that is reasonably liquid, that many
people acquire, that many people spend, money that is readily
convertible to worthwhile goods and services.  Don't worry
about blinding and all that.  Once any sort of net money is
flowing in large amounts, all that stuff then becomes
possible and desirable.  If there is no liquidity, nobody
cares about blinding, and if you have blinding it does you no
good anyway without liquidity.

Once we get that, we will shortly get it all.  As long as we
do not have that, we have very little.

Digicash failed because it was proprietary.  For net money to
be a success we need a standard for transferring promises to
pay that is separate from the software issuers, and thus
separate from the issuers of promises to pay or deliver.  It
has to be a standard such that anybody can play, anyone can
write software that will interoperate with software written
by others, and anyone can issue promises to deliver anything,
so that Ann, Bob, and Carol can transfer and exchange
promises between each other subject only to the need to trust
each other, without needing permissions or licenses from
anyone else.

And it has to have software that is competitive with existing
methods of transferring value.

Credit cards are very competitive for transactions of modest
size, because of the additional services, in particular
dispute arbitration and resolution provided by the card
issuers, and because of their large installed base. Smaller
players cannot hope to compete in that area.

We have however no adequate means for small payments, five
dollars to fractions of a cent. This offers a fertile
opportunity for the development of netmoney.

We also have no entirely satisfactory means for large low
margin payments..

The large payment problem could be addressed by some system
that provided a tight connection between internet money and
US dollars in US banks, or, better, a system that provided a
tight connection between internet money and US dollars in non
US banks, or, if we had a large and liquid micropayment
system, it could be provided by a tight connection between
micro and macropayments.

If several banks in some moderately popular banking haven
allowed people to transfer funds instantly and cheaply from
one account to another within the haven, through digitally
signed messages passing through https protocol, this would
make it possible to readily solve the large payment problem
by offering the means to create a tight connection between
net dollars and offshore dollars.  If this were done then the
revolution would ensue within a few years. So far none have
been willing to do this, perhaps out of fear of reprisals,
more likely out of sheer inertia.

The offshore dollar system is probably larger and more
liquid, and is certainly considerably more free, than the
onshore dollar system, but it is inconvenient for modest 
payments. People use it primarily for transfers of many
thousands of dollars.  Also the connection between the
offshore dollar and the onshore dollar is weak, because it is 
inconvenient, slow, and costly, to transfer dollars between
the offshore and onshore banking systems.

I see no possibility that anyone will be permitted to create
a strong connection between an internet dollar and the
onshore dollar, whereas it is quite possible that someone
will get away with creating a strong connection between the
internet dollar and the offshore dollar.

Alternatively, (and perhaps more likely) a satisfactory
solution to the micropayment problem automatically brings in 
its train a solution to the large payment problem, since the
software must accumulate many small promises into a few large
promises, and provide means to transfer these large promises
through numerous intermediaries, thus a large volume of
micropayments will create the liquidity for macropayments.
We do not need the banks to win this one, though they would
be very handy.

Large promises to pay could acquire value not through a fast
and cheap connection to the banking system, whether onshore
of offshore, but through a fast and cheap connection to the 
micropayment system, resulting in an internet dollar that
derives its liquidity from the internet market, and is
coupled to the US dollar no more strongly, and no less
strongly, than the offshore dollar is coupled to the onshore
dollar.

Of course for this to work, we will need a large and liquid
market for aggregated micropayments. The existing finance
systems for self publishing, dirty pictures, and gambling,
really do not work very well, so there seems an obvious and
large market for micropayments.

Jakob Nielsen, an apparently well informed internet commerce
pundit who claims familiarity with lots of market research
and has himself done lots of market research has argued that 
there is a large and compelling market for micropayments  
"The Case for Micropayments" 
http://www.useit.com/alertbox/980125.html

Jakob Nielsen:
       Some analysts say that users don't want to be
       "nickeled and dimed" while they are online. In fact,
       the problem is being dimed; not being nickeled.
       Unfortunately, some sites that currently charge for
       content do so at a level of a dollar or more per page.
       Such pricing is obviously unpleasant and will only be
       acceptable for highly  value-added content that users
       can predict in advance that they will benefit 
       significantly from buying. Regular articles (like this
       column) cannot be that expensive. 

       Long-distance telephone calls and electricity are both 
       metered services. Many people do feel a tension while 
       they are on the phone, at least while making an 
       international or other expensive call. At the same 
       time, very few people worry about powering a 
       lightbulb, even though doing so costs a few cents per 
       hour. Electricity charges mainly serve to make people 
       turn off the lights when they go to bed. The 
       difference is clearly in the level of pricing:

       less than a cent per minute and people use as much as 
       they need (electricity) 10 cents per minute, and 
       people ration their usage a little (long distance 
       phone calls) 40 cents per minute, and people ration 
       their usage a lot (international calls)  On the Web, 
       users should not worry about a cent per page. If a 
       page is not worth a cent, then you should not download 
       it in the first place. Even as the Web grows in 
       importance in the future, most people will probably 
       access less than 100 non-free pages per day (in June 
       1998, heavy users visited an average of 46 pages per 
       day).  Most users will have $10-$30 in monthly service 
       charges for Web content. 
	   
One cent, or half a cent, is probably the sweet spot for
pages and dirty picture, with quarters being the sweet spot
for games and gambling.

Obviously pay pages cannot and should not be searched by
search engines, so the typical design would be a free,
searchable, index page containing lead in paragraphs and pay
links to the non free pages on the site, or a collection of
free summary pages each containing a pay link to the
corresponding non free page, or (better) both a free index
page and also a collection of free summary pages.

We want the payment system to introduce no additional delays
when we click on a link, so the index page should cause any
necessary negotiations between the browser and server so that 
the server is ready to accept the coins of this particular
user, so that the user can get the pay page with a single
message, a single URL containing a coin.  The server then
immediately starts downloading the page without waiting for
any further messages to complete, and simultaneously attempts
to deposit the coin.

Suppose you are browsing dirty pictures, and both you and the
server are clients of the same token issuer.  Then the token
issuer knows that you are browsing the dirty picture pages,
and knows how much money the dirty picture issuer is making.

But for the scheme to be successful, we need many token
issuers, and the means to transfer aggregated token values
between issuers, so that in general the entity that takes
your bank money and provides you with net money, and the
entity that takes the dirty pictures servers netmoney and
provides it with bank money, will be very different entities, 
probably in very different jurisdictions, separated by a
chain of intermediaries, who have an economic incentive to
aggregate transactions, thus obscuring individual spending
and getting.

If any creditworthy person can issue tokens, privacy is not
such a big problem, and if the aggregated values representing
large numbers of tokens are readily transferable in a large
liquid market intermediary market, it is not a problem at
all, since the dirty picture issuer and the guy looking at
the dirty pictures are likely to be anonymous to the token 
issuer.

The IBM token scheme provides for intermediaries.  Previous
token schemes did not.  This is an important step forward.
Until now, no one has issued a micropayment scheme that had a 
ghost of a chance. The IBM scheme seem basically workable,
though I need to examine it further.

Micropayments have not failed.  They have not yet been tried.
We still have not seen a scheme attempted that had all the
requirements that real netmoney will need.  It is simply 
quite a bit of work to design these things, and to get them
deployed in a form that ordinary mortals can use.   

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     NPL9VZbCi5pP9i/NPYToSVmWYTnX2mbqCxE3CBmj
     4RNCFUvHIWJi/I6WQfi1zBE3fjEMJNMx41wskrUiI
-----------------------------------------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because 
of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this 
right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.


http://www.jim.com/jamesd/      James A. Donald




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 12:23:04 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re:
Message-ID: <19980927173408.26863.qmail@hades.rpini.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Paul is coming from AOL using Netscape as a mailer and using the 
open relay at cesvxa.ces.edu.

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Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 05:59:49 -0700
From: "Paul H. Merrill" 
Subject: Re:
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Message-id: <360E36C5.33C7DFDC@acm.org>
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous lo14 
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 12:59:19 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re:
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Paul H. Merrill wrote:

>1.  There are lies, damn lies, and statistics.

Nice cliche. Unfortunately, it doesn't say anything at all.

>2.  So if the quoted material is included it's bad and if it is not
>included it's bad. I think I see the general idea.  Use the rules
>appropriate for complaining about whoever you want to complain about.

You got it half right. If quoted material is included, it's good. If no
quoted material is included, it's bad. If quoted material is included but it
uses the '<< >>' style, it's bad. If a few hundred lines are quoted and six
added, it's bad. This was explained to you twice; once in the post you're 
responding to, and once in that posting with the AOL quotes. You're 
conveniently ignoring that and you're playing dumb with regard to network
etiquette. Maybe you aren't just pretending.

AOL users originally didn't quote at all, they claimed because of software
constraints. AOL users complained and used the fact that their ISP was lame
as an excuse for not getting another one. Other net users complained. AOL 
responded by using the '<< >>' quoting style, which was effectively giving 
the rest of the net the bird. 

If AOL didn't cater to every moron out there, and if AOL didn't keep running
stupid ads with claims like "AOL is the Internet!", and if AOL wasn't
sending things like requests for Real Player all over the net, and if AOL 
didn't do things to deliberately piss everyone else off, they'd have a much 
better reputation. Maybe the first two can be written off as simple 
marketting, and maybe the third can be written off as the results of that 
marketting, but there is no excuse for the fourth. All four of those are
what gets AOL flamed, kill filed, ignored, insulted, and shunned.

>3.  And what I said was along the lines of most were justified, but some
>showed his lack of clues.  Merely being incomprehensible to a person
>means little if the person is a little clue-shy.  Badly written is a bad
>thing.

There were one or two which may have been questionable. The rest of them
fell into his criteria quite well. That's unless you want to claim that
requests for stickers, CDs, and the rest actually express some subtle
political point other than to say "I'm a moron." I ensure you, if "We're
morons" was the point the AOL posters in question were trying to make, their
message came through quite well. Maybe "you got it?" was actually a secret
code.

>> > > I don't know which is worse. At least the people flaming the AOL wimps are
>> > > funny.
>> >
>> > If funny is all you want, may I recommend rec.humor.funny and, in case
>> > you are up on no current events but Clinton, rec.humor.funny.reruns.
>>
>> No, I want a Cypherpunks list which discusses political issues,
>> cryptography, and things related to that. Since this is the Cypherpunks
>> list, we aren't going to censor on the basis of content or origin point.
>>
>And the general degradation of our society to the level that taking the
>moral ground is something to be ridiculed is not a political issue?

I was refering to the spam from AOL, Sixdegrees, the "child molestor"
spammers, and their like. The responses to that, including your's, are 
political speech like you describe. What you're being ridiculed for is, 
almost without fail, defending every AOL weenie and spam site which comes 
onto this list. 

The child molestor spammers may be able to claim that it isn't their fault
because they're using lame software, but if they use swiss cheese they
shouldn't be surprised when the holes are exploited. I'm not saying it's
very ethical to exploit them, but it isn't surprising.

Paul, with regard to the rest of this, it's obvious that you're either
trolling or are yourself severely clue-shy, and you aren't worth a response 
anymore. Your #2 is proof enough of that. #3 is pretty good evidence too. 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Reeza! 
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 04:36:41 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Clinton's fake apologies (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <19980927052400.21818.qmail@hades.rpini.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980927194009.0083aca0@205.83.192.13>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 05:24 AM 9/27/98 -0000, Anonymous wrote:
>
>Well, this *is* a pathetic reason. You want Clinton impeached because the
>media tells you so.

Have you ever been in the military, Anonymouse? I've noticed that military,
and those with past military service or experience tend to identify with
different aspects of an issue than those without any sort of military
experience. As a serviceman myself, I am compelled to say that to me, you
sound like a 60s era war protester, or perhaps something far worse.
Objecting for reasons of princible, seemingly to spite the real world
considerations, and ignoring the reasons of princible that are in
contradiction to your own viewpoint. The real world is not a princibled
place, but some people do get bonus points for maintaining appearances.
Clinton just suffered an "Aw Shit!", he's lost his turn to play, he needs
to get his shit together and get out of the game. I trust you've also seen
the quote attributed to Clinton, on Nixon? Nixon must be turning over in
his grave, even if it isn't Clintons Quote.

I do not consider 'the presidency' to be a 'man'. I see it as an
institution, a figurehead, a place of honor. The President is a man who,
for four years, (or eight) places his own life in standby, for the greater
good of the nation. What good was served by all the affairs Clinton may
have and did have? What good was served by the apparent use of positional
authority to suppress evidence? What good would be served by allowing a
person with the quality set Clinton has demonstrated to remain in THAT Office?
It, more than many other things in american society, function on
'appearances'. That appearance is now tarnished. The sitting president has
lowered himself, and that office, irreparably. He, we and it are laughing
stocks around the world right now. Did you know that the sitting president
in the philippines used Clintons sex scandals in his own election campaign?
Something to do with Clinton getting all the sex scandals, him getting all
the sex. That was long BEFORE Clinton admitted to misrepresenting events. I
shudder to think how this will affect international negotiations, and
Status Of Forces Agreements around the world. Think the Chinese won't look
to use it in the ongoing human rights negotiations?

Yeah, I'm young enough to still feel patriotic, but old enough that I make
my own definition of that term, instead of blindly accepting someone elses.

I don't think a change is in order because I heard some horses ass for an
alphabet news agency say so, I think a change is in order because I
personally can't stand hypocrites, among other things. Especially
hypocrites who commit felonies, say "sorry" and I am expected to forgive,
and stand idly by while he gets away with it. As I've said before, I
personally could care less if he has an affair. But he had one with a
subordinate in his direct employ, then lied about it, repeatedly, even
while under oath in a court of law. He tried to use his positional
authority to suppress evidence, to intimidate, to get the case(s) dismissed. 
Yeah, I'm REAL PROUD(tm) of my Commander In Chief, he and
CSapronett@aol.com will both have a lot to talk about. Or was that you?

Perhaps you are one of the Klintonistas, with your "what is the big deal"
attitude, deliberately obfuscating the issue, sidelining the real topics
with irrelevant byline chatter. 

If that was me, I'd be doing jail time. If this is allowed to stand, it
will represent the opening salvo, and mark the beginning of the End of
America as a Great Nation(tm).

>As far as the "newby" flame, I've seen that corpse lists here twice recently.
>Maybe you've dated yourself? I remember a time without Reeza! posts... 

Yeah, I can imagine a time when crypto and anonymous accounts don't exist
anymore either. That doesn't mean that it would be a Good Thing(tm). You,
I, anyone is free to browse the archives, then represent self as an
'old-timer' on this list. From an anonymous account, who can challenge?

So what. you don't even have the courage to put your name, or an e-mail
account that can be replied to, when you send your "I'm better than you,
'cuz I've been on the list longer' drivel. Perhaps you have, but it doesn't
change anything.

I am still outspoken,
you are still loath to reveal your identity, even when discussing something
as innocuous as this. Spineless is the term normally used.
And Clinton is still an adulterous purjurer who needs conviction.

If you can't handle that, I suggest you discuss it with your family
physician. I'm sure a wee bit of prozac will help you deal with lifes
disappointments, you must be feeling especially lowly right now,,,, if you
are not, you should.

Reeza!



"...The world was on fire, but no one could save me but you...
	Strange what desire will make foolish people do...
		(and the background vocalists sang)
			This world is only gonna break your heart...."

					==C.I.==




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 21:59:24 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Meriweather v. Gates
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




It's an ironic indication of where we are that Bill Gates is being hounded
by the Justice Department, Sun Microsystems, Netscape, Novell, and Ralph
Nader while no one is hounding John Meriweather. In fact, the Federal
Reserve System, nominally nongovernmental (wink wink) just helped to bailed
out his firm, Long-Term Capital Management.

Gates, you see, has a non-leveraged investment of $50 billion in Microsoft.
No borrowing, no margin debt, just plain old-fashioned ownership.

Meriweather, on the other hand, started in 1991 and took in money from
speculators. He took the $2.2 billion and borrowed with it, hitting the
$125 B in borrowed assets point. Then he and his rocket scientists
essentially borrowed still more, using this $125 B to leverage $1.25 T. (T
for "trillion.")

Not  bad, going from $2.2 B to $1.25 T, a mere 500-fold increase.

(Like taking the money one planned to spend on a new PC, a couple of
thousand or so, and instead controlling a million dollars worth of
financial instruments.)

Had the folks at LTCM made the right bet on the roulette wheel, by guessing
the direction of interest rates, the tens of billions of profits would have
been theirs to keep, with little work on their part. (Some of the
principals are now disclaiming responsibility, saying LTCM was only a
sideline interest.)

Ah, but they guessed wrong, and now they and their lenders are being
bailed out. In America, profits are private but losses are public.

Meanwhile, Gates sticks to building up his company, selling actual
products.  No margin debt, no loans for the American taxpayer to cover, no
overextended lines of credit. Oh, the horror of it!

Gates must be attacked by the U.S. government and all of his incompetent
competitors! He must be driven out of business! We need to  make the world
safer for folks like Meriweather.

(Think of what Meriweather could be doing with the $50 B that Gates has!
Instead of being worth a piddling $50 billion, Meriweather and Scholes and
that bunch could double down, double down again, and again, and turn it
into $25 trillion! All with just some computer commands. American
capitalism at its best.)

We bail out Meriweather. We try to bust Gates. I'm going to  be sick.

The reformatting of this country is overdue.

--Tim May


(This space left blank pending determ. of acceptability to the gov't.)
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "James A. Donald" 
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 22:58:52 +0800
To: "Robert A. Costner" 
Message-ID: <199809280358.UAA27338@proxy3.ba.best.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



    --
At 05:10 PM 9/27/98 -0700, James A. Donald wrote:
> > But for the scheme to be successful, we need many token 
> > issuers

At 10:32 PM 9/27/98 -0400, Robert A. Costner wrote:
> Is there existing open software available for this?

IBM is proposing that anyone, or many people, will be free to
act as issuers of promises to pay in their proposed microcash
system.  Obviously their system is not very open, but unlike
previous amateurish proposals for microcash, it does support
a rich system of intermediaries transferring aggregated
promises to pay.

We really need an open system, which IBM is not, which goes
down to millicent values, which IBM does not, and which
supports intermediaries moving aggregated transactions, so
that customer and server to not have to be clients of the
same intermediary, which IBM does support, and previous
proposals for micropayment did not.

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     Wew5mzbrzY0w3HicOSQ4AfZq5mUz1m+2tsx31B+Z
     4qFN1ClYcfHx6uSYTNssozZoWye7rdANKGzzp16kS
-----------------------------------------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because 
of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this 
right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.


http://www.jim.com/jamesd/      James A. Donald




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 13:47:32 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Remailers, PGP, and a Project Suggestion
Message-ID: <199809271850.UAA23726@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Sun, 27 Sep 1998, Anonymous wrote:

> At 23 Sep 1998 04:27:46 Reeza! wrote:
> > anonymouse, 32 bit aohell to boot. you must feel very safe. Yours is hardly
> > the type of post that might necessitate the use of a remailer, so it should
> > be safe to assume you haven't the courage to stand behind your words, even
> > as mild as they are.
> >
> > Fuck you too. I suggest you discuss your lack of a spine with the maker.
> > See the above for instructions to meet the maker.
> >
> > Reeza!
>
> Hello? This is an old topic, but what the heck...
>
> There is a concept cypherpunks have called "Blacknet", which is an
> organisation that sells profiles of prospective employees based on
> their public comments on the Internet.
>
> This allows employers to filter out undesirables who might or might
> not have outgrown their rebellious youth. (You can never be too safe!)

Even this is a secondary issue.

Many people are using remailers these days because of the advent of the
WWW. Virtually anything written, retrieved, or transfered on the Internet
is vulnerable to monitoring, logging, and future use against you. Even if
you trust the guy you're sending mail to, you can't necessarily trust his
computer security or the security of the network. Systems like Dejanews
and the web search engines illustrate just how much of a log is out there.
That isn't counting the information available solely from mail headers and
IP addresses.

When somebody wants to perform a "great purge," they just go off to a
search engine or database, type in some parameters, and get a list of
people to shoot, jail, or harass.

The natural solution to this is to disguise your identity whenever
possible. I estimate that we have several dozen people who actively post
to Cypherpunks through remailers judging by the way some things are stated
in the postings. I can't tell for sure, and that's the point.

If you want to generate reputation capital, use a nym server. Nym servers
make it obvious that you're using a nym, but it allows you to generate as
many reputations as you want and keep them separate. They're hard to use
without a tool, even for the best of us. Premail leaves a lot to be
desired in that it's slow, has some bugs, and lacks some good features,
but most of the people who want to create a new version seem to live in
the U.S..

The real advantage of the nym servers is that they allow people to see the
origin of the message at a glance. You can do the same thing with regular
anonymous remailers, but you have to verify the signature rather than
glancing at the headers. You should still verify the signature in either
case. This was less of a problem than it once was because premail was out
there, until PGP 5 came out.

PGP 5.x is incompatable with previous versions since it changed both the
protocols and the command line interface. Unfortunately, they changed the
command line interface in a rather stupid way. They also wound up
releasing the Windows version before the UNIX version (by something like
three months).

They seem to check argv[0] to determine what kind of operation you want to
do. 'pgp -seat' won't work anymore. Instead, it's a variant under 'pgpe'.
One PGP binary is created, and several links are set up. The result is
that you can't change the name of the binaries and links if you want. If
there's an advantage to this, I sure don't see it.

When they released the Windows version, Windows users understandably
snatched it up and started using it. The result was a bunch of
incompatabilities between two platforms which could have easily been
solved had PGP, Inc. exercised a little more discression.

That's a moot point now, though. The problem which still remains is the
command line interface. It breaks any script which references PGP, and
that's the main problem.

What UNIX really needs is some kind of mailer which integrates an updated
premail, PGP 2.x support, and PGP 5.x support. Unfortunately, much to the
delight of the government, the people who would code such a thing are
probably in the U.S. like I am.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 20:58:08 +0800
To: users@einstein.ssz.com (SSZ User Mail List)
Subject: GNUcash [/.]
Message-ID: <199809280200.VAA05655@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> X-within-URL: http://www.gnucash.org/

>    content   In the spirit of cooperation we bring you The GnuCash
>    Project. We all realized that it was senseless to have several
>    different projects working toward the same goals. So we did the most
>    logical thing, we merged! The result of this merger is the GnuCash
>    Project.
>    
>    Some of the projects that merged included X-Accountant, and GnoMoney.
>    GnuCash will be based on the lastest version of Xacc. We will use the
>    "transaction engine" from Xacc, and port the GUI from Motif to
>    Gnome/Gtk. Several other significant features will also be added. Such
>    as support for splits, and online banking via OFX. To see a list of
>    other planned features please check out the features page.
>    
>    There is unfortunately no stable version of GnuCash available yet. So
>    if you are interested in using a financial package now I suggest using
>    the lastest version of Xacc, which is a very stable, and full featured
>    piece of software! =) Check out the pages below for more info on Xacc.

>    News 09-17-98
>      * ANNOUNCE - Gnucash 1.1.18 is released. Get it at ftp.gnucash.org


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Robert A. Costner" 
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 21:31:48 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Cypherpunks defeat?
In-Reply-To: <199809231921.VAA12284@replay.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980927223248.03463a7c@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 05:10 PM 9/27/98 -0700, James A. Donald wrote:
>Few people use encryption technology today, because few
>people have real need of it.

I would tend to disagree with this.  Instead, few people use encryption
technology today because encryption technology is seldom transparent to the
user.

Few users "think" encryption when they use SSL.  It is transparent.  I
suspect that if you were to survey recent users of SSL pages, you would
find that most believe they have not used encryption in the last week.

When PGP 5.x came out, suddenly encryption became, not widely used, but
much more widely than before.  Encryption in email became somewhat
transparent in the sending process of email, but still non transparent in
the transport and receiving of the email.  The user can easily tell the
difference between an encrypted and a non encrypted message.  This non
transparent quality is still a problem.  

Compare this with forged headers (which mainly are hidden in most email
clients).  Forged headers are transparent to the receiver until a closer
look is made.  To compare the two, with encrypted email the message is not
readily apparent.  An action must be taken (with Eudora/PGP and S-Mime
about four actions) to see the text of the message.  On the other hand,
with forged headers the message is apparent, and an action must be taken to
determine that it is not a valid message.

If my email came to me encrypted, only decipherable with my private key
with no passphrase or other action by me, I would be happy.  My computer
sits next to a drawer containing a pile of cash.  I perceive the cash to be
secured.  I also perceive my computer to be secured.  I want my encryption
transparent.

>reasonably liquid net money... so they
>have little need to encrypt their messages

I personally would like all my cell phone, cordless phone, and email
communications transparently encrypted.  If it were an option, and was
seamless  transparent, and the same price, then I suspect most people would
as well.

>If several banks in some moderately popular banking haven
>allowed people to transfer funds instantly and cheaply from

Yes, this has been a big problem.  Teller machines are now at about $1 per
transaction to cross networks.  Most of the internet payment systems
require a large chunk of the money be retained by the processing system.
Secure servers often want 12% to 50% of the transaction.  PC banking has
monthly charges.

>One cent, or half a cent, is probably the sweet spot for
>pages and dirty picture, with quarters being the sweet spot
>for games and gambling.

I would suggest millicent to 1/100 of a penny for web page access.  A penny
a click would make me think twice, 1/100 of a penny would not cause me to
consider it.  But to be honest, today I would avoid a pay site and go to
the free sites.

>Obviously pay pages cannot and should not be searched by
>search engines

If my pages were for pay, I would want them to turn up in the search
engines.  This is easy enough.  When I examine my logs, I can easily see
when certain search engines come looking.  The micropayment software simply
has to be configurable to allow certain IP addresses to be allowed to pass
without paying.

>But for the scheme to be successful, we need many token
>issuers

Is there existing open software available for this?


  -- Robert Costner                  Phone: (770) 512-8746
     Electronic Frontiers Georgia    mailto:pooh@efga.org  
     http://www.efga.org/            run PGP 5.0 for my public key




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Jean-Francois Avon" 
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 22:24:27 +0800
To: "Donna Ferolie, Canadian Institute for Legislative Action" 
Subject: Police would never exagerate ? Guess what...
Message-ID: <199809280318.XAA09972@cti06.citenet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



==================BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE==================
>Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 09:57:46 +0930
>From: SSAA 
>Subject: NEWS - Toy Pistol case dismissed
>Reply-to: Sporting.Shooters.Association@adelaide.on.net

THE SUNDAY TELEGRAPH, Sydney.    Sept 27.by Wayne Jones.
A MAGISTRATE has dismissed charges against a 165 year old boy who faced
jail for possessin a toy cap gun.
The magistrate, Hal Halenstean, made the decision after hearing what he
described as a "silly case" on Friday.
"We all have better things to do", Mr Halenstein said,
The boy, who cannot be identified bought the toy cap gun from a toy
stall at Victoria's Dandednong Market on May 12.
Minutes later, police looking for drug dealers found the cap gun in the
boy's jacket. They charged boy with several firearm offences which carry
a jail sentence.
In court, Mr Halenstein twice gave prosecutors on opportunity to
withdraw the charges against the boy, but police indicated they would
continue to contest the case.
Using special provisions of the Sentencing Act, Mr Halenstein then
dissmissed the charges.
The boy's barrister, Arend Slink, said the court case had set a
precedent under the new gun laws. Toy cap guns could no longer be
classed as prohibited weapons, he said.
"If there is any sinister intent there are a range of serious charges
that a person could be charged with. "Mr Slink" said"But in the case of
a child possessing a toy cap gun a precedent has now been clearly set".
The Sunday Telegraph reported on May 24 the boy could face jail if found
guilty of the swrioud gun charges, which included:
# Being a non-prohibited person did possess/carry a handgun which was
not registered. 
# Being a non-prohibited person did possess/ carry a handgun which ge
did not have a licecnce for under part two of the Firearms Act 1996.
# Did own a handgun whilst not authorissed by a licence under the
Firearms Act 1996 to possess a firearm.
Police had alleged the toy gun was consedered an imitation firearm inder
strict new gun laws and therefore deemed to be a prohibited weapon.
The toy gun bought by the boy is one of thousands soldacross the state. 
The boy said he had bought the toy cap gun with pocket money.
THE END.
------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
View Democrat Firearm Policy
www.ssaa.org.au/dempolicy.html
Print, copy and distribute.


===================END FORWARDED MESSAGE===================


Jean-Francois Avon, B.Sc. Physics, Montreal, Canada
  DePompadour, Société d'Importation Ltée
     Limoges fine porcelain and french crystal
  JFA Technologies, R&D physicists & engineers
     Instrumentation & control, LabView programming
PGP keys: http://bs.mit.edu:8001/pks-toplev.html
PGP ID:C58ADD0D:529645E8205A8A5E F87CC86FAEFEF891 
PGP ID:5B51964D:152ACCBCD4A481B0 254011193237822C





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Robert A. Costner" 
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 23:20:13 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Cypherpunks defeat?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980927223248.03463a7c@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980928002239.03be06bc@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 08:43 PM 9/27/98 -0700, James A. Donald wrote:

>IBM is proposing that anyone, or many people, will be free to
>act as issuers of promises to pay in their proposed microcash
>system.  

I don't think you gave a URL for the IBM system.  Since you got me
interested, I went and looked at the "MilliCent" branded product from
Digital/Compaq.

	http://www.millicent.digital.com/

Millicent is currently free in that scrip is not cash.  I have to laugh in
that MilliCent has a granularity of 1/10 of a penny.  So why call it
millicent?

It looks like millicent could be used to pay for web based sending of
anonymous messages, but only if you have an NT server (or use theirs) and
only if you browse from windows.

Maybe if I find a millicent type system that works with a Linux server,
especially a "non money" one, I might setup a web based mailer that works
with it.  It would make a nice weekend project.  I'm been thinking of
revamping the dragoncon.net mailer anyway.


  -- Robert Costner                  Phone: (770) 512-8746
     Electronic Frontiers Georgia    mailto:pooh@efga.org  
     http://www.efga.org/            run PGP 5.0 for my public key




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Marky 
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 13:36:51 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Mailing-List
Message-ID: <360F45F2.5DD1@bluewin.ch>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Please email me information about your mailing-list.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 18:27:45 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199809272330.BAA12818@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Sunday, September 27, 1998 - 23:06:35 MET

First of all I want to say that the last posting I
did to cypherpunks@cyberpass.net did not reach
the intended recipients.

And two,  

> Subject: Remailers, PGP, and a Project Suggestion   
> Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 20:50:36 +0200
> From: Anonymous 
> To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net

> Unfortunately, much to the delight of the 
> government, the people who would code such 
> a thing are probably in the U.S. like I am.

I would be more than glad to do the coding. I am
not in the US. However, the only thing that stops
me is the fact that I just don't know enough 
programming.


        




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 21:28:01 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: please help
Message-ID: <199809280230.EAA27973@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





http://www.angelfire.com/ok/ProveIt/




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 14:53:15 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re:
Message-ID: <8b290243deab0d40b2006a5aaf21f9e9@anonymous>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On 27 Sep 1998, Anonymous wrote:

>
> Paul is coming from AOL using Netscape as a mailer and using the
> open relay at cesvxa.ces.edu.

He's admitted this at least once in a sidebar on a message, as I seem to
recall, so it's nothing new. It does go to show conflict of interest, and
it could be claimed that he's trying to make himself feel better, I
suppose.

Looking back, he's used AOL for most of his postings, except for one I
came across which apparently came from an admin machine at ces.edu, so he
isn't exploiting some random open relay somewhere. Generally they all
route through ces.edu.

I can't speak for Paul, but I figure that he's probably doing what he once
said that he is, and using a modem link to AOL, using AOL for a routing
service, then routing mail through the relay at CES. I don't know why
someone would want to do that if they're sitting on a university network,
but it doesn't matter much.

I just checked: the relay does appear to be an open relay. I just hope
spammers don't wind up finding out which, of course, they probably will
after that post.

Can we have some signal somewhere, please?
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Reeza! 
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 17:50:17 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Why do we need remailers, anyway?
In-Reply-To: <20463d5af58cdf2759d132cedbdcfa02@anonymous>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980928085236.008348b0@205.83.192.13>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 02:25 AM 9/27/98 -0700, Anonymous wrote:
>
>Hello? This is an old topic, but what the heck...
>
>There is a concept cypherpunks have called "Blacknet", which is an
>organisation that sells profiles of prospective employees based on
>their public comments on the Internet.
>
>This allows employers to filter out undesirables who might or might
>not have outgrown their rebellious youth. (You can never be too safe!) 
>
>Now, there are laws making discrimination illegal. But it's hard to *prove*
>that an employer based its decision on BlackNet files, isn't it....
>
>The cypherpunk philosophy is to rely on technology to solve the problem,
rather
>than rely on the government (or anyone else). Cypherpunks write code.
>
>-- an anonymous aol32 user.
>

You would seem to defend the First Adulterer/Purjurer, you question why I
call him this, but you don't want your employer to know that you support
the existing regime?

Yours is a curious blend of half-truths and inane justifications, with a
little in-your-face spitefulness.

As someone else pointed out, even this thread is a secondary issue.
I'm recycling the electrons you sent to me.

Reeza!

"...The world was on fire, but no one could save me but you...
	Strange what desire will make foolish people do...
		(and the background vocalists sang)
			This world is only gonna break your heart...."

					==C.I.==




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "James A. Donald" 
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 23:59:18 +0800
To: "Robert A. Costner" 
Message-ID: <199809280459.VAA16677@proxy3.ba.best.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



    --
At 08:43 PM 9/27/98 -0700, James A. Donald wrote:
> > IBM is proposing that anyone, or many people, will be
> > free to act as issuers of promises to pay in their
> > proposed microcash system.  

At 12:22 AM 9/28/98 -0400, Robert A. Costner wrote:
> I don't think you gave a URL for the IBM system. 

http://www.hrl.il.ibm.com/mpay 

> Since you got me interested, I went and looked at the
> "MilliCent" branded product from Digital/Compaq.
>
>	http://www.millicent.digital.com/
>
> Millicent is currently free in that scrip is not cash.  I
> have to laugh in that MilliCent has a granularity of 1/10
> of a penny.  So why call it millicent?
>
> It looks like millicent could be used to pay for web based
> sending of anonymous messages, but only if you have an NT
> server (or use theirs) and only if you browse from windows.
>
> Maybe if I find a millicent type system that works with a
> Linux server, especially a "non money" one, I might setup a
> web based mailer that works with it.  It would make a nice
> weekend project.  I'm been thinking of revamping the
> dragoncon.net mailer anyway.

What we really need is an open standard with very fine
potential granularity and the intermediary capabilities of
Microsoft.

Such a project is quite large. 

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     zRXCi1S3PQe8A82QKJfHfUZKc6zitJTY6L/I82Tu
     4VsX/hdqg717QA4khZefRZ8nu2RJD3DzKv9ZNLjdK
-----------------------------------------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because 
of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this 
right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.


http://www.jim.com/jamesd/      James A. Donald




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Burnes 
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 02:19:47 +0800
To: "James A. Donald" 
Subject: Re: Cypherpunks defeat?
In-Reply-To: <199809280358.UAA27338@proxy3.ba.best.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




On Sun, 27 Sep 1998, James A. Donald wrote:

> We really need an open system, which IBM is not, which goes
> down to millicent values, which IBM does not, and which
> supports intermediaries moving aggregated transactions, so
> that customer and server to not have to be clients of the
> same intermediary, which IBM does support, and previous
> proposals for micropayment did not.
> 
>     --digsig
>          James A. Donald

Sound like we need something like a GPL for digital cash
protocols/algorithms.

That would keep it from being monopolized by a few power
players.

Someone has to be working on this.

jim





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: mark@unicorn.com
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 10:35:11 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Remailers, PGP, and a Project Suggestion
Message-ID: <906997039.10013.193.133.230.33@unicorn.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Anonymous apparently informed the cypherpunks:
>What UNIX really needs is some kind of mailer which integrates an updated
>premail, PGP 2.x support, and PGP 5.x support. Unfortunately, much to the
>delight of the government, the people who would code such a thing are
>probably in the U.S. like I am.

Privtool (http://www.unicorn.com/privtool/privtool.html) already provides
PGP 2.x support, mixmaster support and limited premail support; I'll add
PGP 5.x or OpenPGP when I have a Linux machine again.

    Mark




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bruce Schneier 
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 09:45:02 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Wanted: Twofish source code
Message-ID: <199809281429.JAA12328@mixer.visi.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I am looking for Twofish ports in other assembly languages and other
high-level languages.  If anyone has, or is willing to write, source code
that they will put in the public domain, I would like to talk with them.

Thanks,
Bruce 
**********************************************************************
Bruce Schneier, President, Counterpane Systems     Phone: 612-823-1098
101 E Minnehaha Parkway, Minneapolis, MN  55419      Fax: 612-823-1590
           Free crypto newsletter.  See:  http://www.counterpane.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Brown, R Ken" 
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 10:08:49 +0800
To: "'cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com>
Subject: Mild anti-phone-company rant
Message-ID: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F8456@MSX11002>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Why worry about mere governments when the phone company can ru(i)n your
life? 

BT AKA  British Telecom were reported on the BBC radio over the weekend
to be using their customer's account records to poach business from
Internet service providers.  Sales staff searched for customers who
frequently dialled known ISP numbers. They then tried to sell them BT's
Internet service (imaginitively branded as "BT Internet") 

A bit of a marketing advantage that, knowing exactly who your mark
phoned, when and for how long.  What's next? Maybe BT Pizza will try
contacting heavy users of Domino. Or BT Hot and Horny will send
brochures in plain covers to subscribers who phone certain numbers
apparently in Grenada or Chile  (Not that I would ever call such numbers
but a friend of mine was surprised to find so many Manchester accents in
Latin America...)

UK government's response to all that is at
http://www.coi.gov.uk/coi/depts/GOT/GOT.html  - which will also tell you
about the way BT overcharges independent  payphone operators and rakes
off money whenever you call a mobile phone. 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/newsid%5F181000/181800.stm says how
Kent police are doing a deal with BT so that the phone company will
withdraw service from people who make too many frivolous 999 calls
(emergency number - like the US 911 - but a lot easier to key in when
your room is  full of smoke). So if the police don't like you they can
ask BT to cut off your phone and they just will?

And if you think I've got it in for BT at least they seem to be  more
competent than their main rivals in the UK market,  inCapable and
Witless (did I spell that right?) for whom I spent a day and a half
waiting at home last week, instead of at work. On Thursday  I was there
for hours for one man to come in, stick something into a wall port, see
that it lit up (I could have told him that the connection to the switch
worked) and give me a piece of paper to sign, telling me that they had
connected my phone to the WRONG NUMBER  which, after I had called them
to ask for my own phone number back got disconnected entirely.  On
Friday they didn't turn up at all. Totally wasted day.  And I currently
have neither phone nor cable TV services, and haven't had for THREE
WEEKS. And they had the temerity to send me a bill - even if it was only
for 4.45.

I think I should charge them for my wasted time. Maybe I should ask for
consultancy rates.  But I suppose if I demanded more than a year's phone
bill off them they'd soon decide they dindn't have to supply me with
service at all.  Nuts.

There must be a cheap way to get online without dealing with phone
companies. They seem to combine the entrepreneurial spirit of the civil
service with the humility of the banks and the dedication to customer
choice of Microsoft and IBM.

This mail is entirely my own private opinion and nothing at all to do
with my employers who probably wouldn't approve of it in the unlikely
event that they ever noticed it.  Despite the fact that I am using their
Internet connection to send it.  Of course I could always have sent it
from home via my ISP. Or I could have  IF I HAD A BLOODY PHONE LINE THAT
BLOODY WELL WORKED.

Ken Brown




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 12:13:32 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Blacklisted spam victim wants his day in court (fwd)
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 10:14:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: Declan McCullagh 
To: politech@vorlon.mit.edu
Subject: Blacklisted spam victim wants his day in court


http://cgi.pathfinder.com/netly/0,2326,201980928-14646,00.html

TIME Digital's Netly News
September 28, 1998 

   Blacklisted Spam Victim Wants His Day in Court 
   By Declan McCullagh (declan@well.com)
                                         
   When Craig Harmer got spammed, he did what all of us should do: he
   fired off a nasty email to the perp and the perp's Internet provider.
   "I was trying to get his web site connectivity yanked," says Harmer, a
   35-year old Unix programmer who didn't really think much of it at the
   time. But the spammer remembered. Harmer says someone named Michael
   Reed was behind the bulk email, and accuses Reed of retaliating by
   using Harmer's Internet site as a mail relay, pumping megabytes of
   forged sex spam through it and letting Harmer take the rap.

   [...remainder snipped...]
   





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: emailking.associates@cwix.com
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 08:41:59 +0800
To: 
Subject: advertisement
Message-ID: <199809301343.IAA11432@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



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to be removed type "remove" in the subject header and e mail back 
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l5t 1e1
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 04:13:22 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Information about the Anonymous
Message-ID: <199809280909.LAA17361@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



This message is being sent to you automatically in reply to the message
you sent to remailer@replay.com with the subject "remailer-help".

There is an automated mail handling program installed on this account
which will take any message with the proper headers and automatically
re-send it anonymously.

It is capable of providing a very high level of security if you use the
Mixmaster software to produce the messages.  You can get the Mixmaster
client software from  (Germany).  Please
read its manual page and README file for usage instructions.

More information about anonymous remailers is available at
.

For an up-to-date listing of anonymous remailers with statistics,
see .  You can also get the
list by fingering rlist@anon.efga.org or rlist@anon.lcs.mit.edu.

You can use the remailer by sending mail to remailer@replay.com, with the
header "Anon-To: address", the address that you want to send anonymously
to.  If you can't add headers to your mail, you can place two colons on
the first line of your message, followed by the "Anon-To:" line.  Follow
that with a blank line, and then begin your message.  For example:

================================================================
From: joe@site.com
To: remailer@replay.com
Subject: Anonymous Mail

::
Anon-To: beth@univ.edu

This is some anonymous mail.
================================================================


The above would be delivered to beth@univ.edu anonymously.  All headers in
the original message are removed.  She would not know that it came from
Joe, nor would she be able to reply to the message.  However, there are a
few ways that the true identity of the sender could be found.  First, if
many anonymous messages were sent, someone could compare the times that
the messages were sent with the times that 'joe' was logged in.  However,
this can be prevented by instructing the remailer to delay the message, by
using the "Latent-Time:" header:

================================================================
From: joe@site.com
To: remailer@replay.com
Subject: Anonymous Mail

::
Anon-To: beth@univ.edu
Latent-Time: +1:00

This is some anonymous mail.
================================================================

The message would be delayed one hour from when it is sent.  It is also
possible to create a random delay by adding an 'r' to the time (+1:00r),
which would have the message be delivered at a random time, but not more
than an hour.  You can also delay the message until a specific time.
For example, "Latent-Time: 0:00" without the '+' would delay the message
until midnight (at the remailer site).  Times must be in 24-hour format.

NOTE: This remailer automatically reorders messages in a large pool,
which produces a similar effect.


Another problem is that some mailers automatically insert a signature file.
Of course, this usually contains the sender's e-mail address, and so would
reveal their identity.  The remailer software can be instructed to remove
a signature file with the header "Cutmarks:".  Any line containing only the
cutmark characters, and any lines following it will be removed.

================================================================
From: sender@origin.com
To: remailer@replay.com

::
Anon-To: recipient@destination.com
Cutmarks: -- 

This line of text will be in the anonymous message.
-- 
This line of text will not be in the anonymous message.
================================================================

NOTE: The cutmark characters in the example are "-- ", the usual e-mail
signature separator.  If you forget the trailing blank after the "--"
in the "Cutmarks:" directive, your signature won't be cut off.


Sometimes you want a subject line or other headers in your anonymous
message.  Additional headers can be written to the output message by
preceding them with a "##" line.  Multi-line headers with indented
continuation lines are allowed.

================================================================
From: chris@nifty.org
To: remailer@replay.com

::
Anon-To: andrew@where-ever.org

##
Reply-To: chris@nifty.org
Subject: A message with user-supplied headers: the subject extends
	over two lines

Hi there!
================================================================


The remailer can also be used to make anonymous posts to Usenet.
To do this, send a message with the header "Anon-Post-To: newsgroups",
the newsgroups that you want to post anonymously to.  Please note
that the group names must be separated by commas (but NO spaces).

================================================================
From: poster@origin.com
To: remailer@replay.com

::
Anon-Post-To: alt.test,misc.test

##
Subject: Anonymous Post

This is an anonymous message.
================================================================

When posting test messages, please use the appropriate groups (alt.test,
misc.test).  The remailer support newsgroup alt.privacy.anon-server is
not a test group.  A subject is needed for Usenet postings.  The remailer
writes a "Subject: none" header to the output message if you don't add
your own subject.

In order to post an anonymous follow-up article and have it appear in a
thread, you must set the "Subject:" and "References:" headers of your
message correctly.  The explanation below has been adapted from the
nym.alias.net help file (mailto:help@nym.alias.net).

The subject of your message should be the same as the article to which you
are replying, unless you are replying to the first message in a thread, in
which case you should prepend "Re: " to the original subject.

To build a references header, copy the references header of the article to
which you are replying, and append that article's Message-ID.  If you are
replying to the first article of a thread, it won't have a references header.
In that case just use the article's Message-ID as your references header.
Be sure to leave a space between Message-IDs in your references heder.
For example, if replying to a message which includes these headers:

================================================================
Newsgroups: alt.privacy.anon-server
Subject: Re: anonymous remailers
References: <5dfqlm$m50@basement.replay.com>
Message-ID: <5dko56$1lv$1@news02.deltanet.com>
================================================================

your anonymous follow-up message should begin with these lines:

================================================================
::
Anon-Post-To: alt.privacy.anon-server

##
Subject: Re: anonymous remailers
References: <5dfqlm$m50@basement.replay.com>
	<5dko56$1lv$1@news02.deltanet.com>
================================================================

[Note that an indented line in a message header indicates a continuation
of the previous line.]  If replying to the first message in a thread,
with these headers:

================================================================
Newsgroups: alt.privacy.anon-server
Subject: Help with PGP
Message-ID: <5e96gi$opv@job.acay.com.au>
================================================================

your reply should begin with these lines:

================================================================
::
Anon-Post-To: alt.privacy.anon-server

##
Subject: Re: Help with PGP
References: <5e96gi$opv@job.acay.com.au>
================================================================

The "References:" header can be trimmed to include only IDs from messages
that you have quoted from or are replying to.


By separating messages with cutmarks, you can send more than one message
at once:

================================================================
From: me@mysite.org
To: remailer@replay.com
Subject: whatever

::
Anon-To: recipient1@site1.org
Cutmarks: -- 

##
Subject: message 1

Message one.
-- 
::
Anon-To: recipient2@site2.org
Cutmarks: -- 

##
Subject: message 2

Message two.
-- 
me@mysite.org
================================================================

The two messages will be delivered separately, and the signature will
be removed.  Only one cutmark is used in the example, but you may use
different cutmarks in each part of your message if necessary.


For added security, you can encrypt your messages to the remailer with
PGP. The remailer software will decrypt the message and send it on.
Here is the remailer's public key:

Type Bits/KeyID    Date       User ID
pub  1000/E7AEC1E5 1995/05/23 Replay Remailer Service 

-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
Version: 2.6.3i

mQCKAy/Bo9QAAAED6NMBE5oNGLqUmZvUZTWBfL41B67EVtDHu5VmqrPLX6w0gk8U
lPUNlW/1wACNQAFs/hxKKd0B15d8R7Qk1X7H1KPsdF9AAp8DIBe3MN59Z8iO1dYB
GW8YhPg2EXnNAZyVQb/CGhDZhm8naq3wsQynZZu4J7DmVD0VsrLnrsHlAAURtC1S
ZXBsYXkgUmVtYWlsZXIgU2VydmljZSA8cmVtYWlsZXJAcmVwbGF5LmNvbT6JAJID
BRAvzinRPRWysueuweUBAVpyA+dmx166/op40+nr9OQjahqWHdvLYkKipanaLNM4
u0/U8RrkySEj5n/R0zaJSG4mutZ28DqUEhz7rBHrFRYleENRtiI9TxZZrJVWInE9
No7VwSW9jWlpta2rCfu97EWLdPVPLXmXpd90TONHMk8a7sf/Lz5JFWIIK5PSqI/Z
xQ==
=5+RC
-----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----

To utilize this feature, create a message with two colons on the first line,
then the "Anon-To:" or "Anon-Post-To:" header, then any other commands such
as "Cutmarks:" or "Latent-Time:", then a blank line, then the optional "##"
line and your additional headers, then a blank line, and then the body of
your message.  Encrypt this with the remailer's public key.  Then send it
to the remailer, adding the header "Encrypted: PGP".  If you forget this,
the remailer won't know that it needs to be decrypted.  Also be sure to use
the "-t" option with PGP, or the linefeeds might not be handled properly.

================================================================
From: me@mysite.org
To: remailer@replay.com

::
Encrypted: PGP

-----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE-----
Version: 2.6.3in

hIwCJD7BWgsRsnUBA/9kVuVlhFczhjI5cYFLGEAQiv4fUUlZ+hgPp6SQysToVLTM
d0OvWqEb4TJgMREf6pHv4022yRLV6Pb9xaE/Gb82SUZYNE6TvfpxyKbWtRSthPXx
OlsLD+IudqvBQus6DoY/9ClbbXyibP6mOCy7gwFZWOy6OMv2O2ZI3ufc/iCpgKYA
AAAoLD7rvsI+c/Bod/GKAffpHqN2fimsoXrdcEMhIfN+rSC7PnMmaX1c4w==
=afKM
-----END PGP MESSAGE-----
================================================================

To confuse possible attackers even more, you can generate some cover
traffic by sending encrypted messages with the special "Null:" header
rather than the usual "Anon-To:" or "Anon-Post-To:" headers.  The
remailer will drop these messages in the bit bucket.


Any text after your encrypted remailer message is also remailed.  This
allows sending messages to someone who is anonymous.  If you create a
PGP-encrypted message to yourself via this remailer, and then give it
to someone, they can send you a message by sending the encrypted message
to the remailer.  The remailer will then decrypt it and send it to you.
The message gets anonymized in the process, so the sender will need
to include a return address if he wants a reply.

Messages sent this way can be encrypted using the "Encrypt-Key:" feature.
Any text following a line beginning with "**" will be encrypted with this
key.  For example, if you put in the plaintext of your PGP message:

================================================================
::
Anon-To: you@yourhost.org
Encrypt-Key: your_password

**
================================================================

The appended message after the "**" will be encrypted with the key
"your_password", using PGP's conventional encryption option.
It is much simpler to manage these "reply blocks" -- both from the
sender's and recipient's perspective -- by using a nymserver.
Please read  for more information
(the homepage for nym.alias.net, the home of the nymserver software).


For greatest untraceability, your reply block can be directed to post
to alt.anonymous.messages on Usenet.  Since you must use a subject line
when posting to Usenet, messages sent using the same reply block will
have the same subject.  To avoid this, you can encrypt a message digest
of the subject using the "Encrypt-Subject:" feature.  For example, if
you put inside your reply block:

================================================================
::
Anon-Post-To: alt.anonymous.messages
Encrypt-Key: your_password
Encrypt-Subject: your_other_password

##
Subject: This subject is MD5 hashed and IDEA encrypted

**
================================================================

The subject will be converted to a 128-bit number and encrypted
with IDEA using CFB mode with the key "your_other_password", and
printed in hexadecimal format (48 characters); and the message will
be posted to alt.anonymous.messages.  The original subject cannot
be recovered, only the MD5 hash of it, and then only if you have the
password.  The resulting subject will be different each time due to
the use of CFB mode, so this helps prevent traffic analysis based on
the subject header.

Decoding the subject (to verify that the message is directed to you)
requires special software.  A small C program which can do this is
part of the remailer distribution, but a more robust application would
be appreciated.  You can get the remailer source code as ASCII-armored
Unix TGZ archive by sending mail to remailer-source@squirrel.owl.de.


Abuse Policy:
I consider the following to be inappropriate use of this anonymous remailer,
and will take steps to prevent anyone from doing any of the following:
- Sending messages intended primarily to be harassing or annoying.
- Use of the remailer for any illegal purpose.  Due to the global nature
  of the Internet, it is the sole responsibility of the orginal sender
  to determine what is legal.
- Unsolicited commercial messages (SPAM).
- Complaints to spammers.
- Posting lists of addresses to Usenet groups for purposes of soliciting
  commercial e-mail (spam-baiting).

Spammers will be exposed, publicly humiliated, and billed whenever possible.

If you don't want to receive anonymous mail, send a message to the operator,
and your address will be added to the block list.  For more information on
filtering out unwanted e-mail, see .


You can get a list of statistics on remailer usage by sending mail to
the remailer with Subject: remailer-stats


To get the remailer's public keys, send mail with Subject: remailer-key
or finger rlist-keys@anon.efga.org or remailer-keys@anon.lcs.mit.edu to
get the public PGP keys of all active Cypherpunk remailers.


For a copy of these instructions, send mail with Subject: remailer-help

To reach the operator, direct your mail to abuse@replay.com.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 10:31:52 +0800
To: Digital Bearer Settlement List 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Forwarded with Andrew's permission...

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga

--- begin forwarded text


Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 09:15:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: Andrew Odlyzko 
To: rah@shipwright.com
Subject: Re: Cypherpunks defeat?

Bob,

Concerning the recent posting by Jim Donald about micropayments,
let me say that as a co-inventor of a micropayment scheme
(presented at the FC'97 conference) I do see a role for them.
However, I do think it will be a limited role.  The reason
is economic.  It is not just that people don't want to be
"nickeled and dimed."  A more substantive reason is that in
most situations the content producers can get more money
from aggregating content.  I have analyzed this in papers
such as

The bumpy road of electronic commerce, in "WebNet 96 - World
Conf. Web Soc. Proc.," H. Maurer, ed., AACE, 1996, pp. 378-389.

and

Fixed fee versus unit pricing for information goods: competition,
equilibria, and price wars, P. C. Fishburn, A. M. Odlyzko, and
R. C. Siders, First Monday 2(7) (July 1997), http://www.firstmonday.dk/.
Also to appear in "Internet Publishing and Beyond: The Economics of
Digital Information and Intellectual Property," D. Hurley, B. Kahin,
and H. Varian, eds., MIT Press, 1998.

Both are available at

  http://www.research.att.com/~amo/doc/eworld.html

Best regards,
Andrew


************************************************************************
Andrew Odlyzko                                      amo@research.att.com
AT&T Labs - Research                                voice:  973-360-8410
http://www.research.att.com/~amo                    fax:    973-360-8178
************************************************************************

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Lazlo Toth 
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 11:25:57 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Judging from the webpage, this is personal finance software (ala Quicken)
and doesn't seem to aspire to providing digital cash or electronic wallet
functions.

-Lazlo


On or about 9:00 PM -0500 9/27/98, Jim Choate wrote:
>Forwarded message:
>
>> X-within-URL: http://www.gnucash.org/
>
>>    content   In the spirit of cooperation we bring you The GnuCash
>>    Project. We all realized that it was senseless to have several
>>    different projects working toward the same goals. So we did the most
>>    logical thing, we merged! The result of this merger is the GnuCash
>>    Project.
>>
>>    Some of the projects that merged included X-Accountant, and GnoMoney.
>>    GnuCash will be based on the lastest version of Xacc. We will use the
>>    "transaction engine" from Xacc, and port the GUI from Motif to
>>    Gnome/Gtk. Several other significant features will also be added. Such
>>    as support for splits, and online banking via OFX. To see a list of
>>    other planned features please check out the features page.
>>
>>    There is unfortunately no stable version of GnuCash available yet. So
>>    if you are interested in using a financial package now I suggest using
>>    the lastest version of Xacc, which is a very stable, and full featured
>>    piece of software! =) Check out the pages below for more info on Xacc.
>
>>    News 09-17-98
>>      * ANNOUNCE - Gnucash 1.1.18 is released. Get it at ftp.gnucash.org
>
>
>    ____________________________________________________________________
>
>                            The seeker is a finder.
>
>                                     Ancient Persian Proverb
>
>       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
>       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
>       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
>                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
>    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 12:07:43 +0800
To: lazlototh@hempseed.com (Lazlo Toth)
Subject: Re: GNUcash [/.]
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199809281709.MAA02092@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Hi Lazlo,

> Judging from the webpage, this is personal finance software (ala Quicken)
> and doesn't seem to aspire to providing digital cash or electronic wallet
> functions.

The reason it's important is that it provides that seamless interface that
everyone is looking for to impliment digi-cash mechanism in a GPL'ed
environment. It would even be a good starting point for implimenting a
mechanism to broaden the use of encryption (ala PGP).

Note, I just supply the pointers *you* have to do the thinking.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 11:28:27 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Potentially Big Security Flaw Found in Netscape Software
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Delivered-To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
X-Sender: believer@telepath.com
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 11:24:13 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com
From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Potentially Big Security Flaw Found in Netscape Software
Mime-Version: 1.0
Sender: owner-ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
Precedence: list
Reply-To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  New York Times
http://www.nytimes.com/library/tech/yr/mo/biztech/articles/28java.html

September 28, 1998

Potentially Big Security Flaw Found in Netscape Software

By JOHN MARKOFF

SAN FRANCISCO -- A potentially serious security flaw has been
discovered in the programming language used in the Navigator and
Communicator software of the Netscape Communications Corp., with
the defect possibly allowing an outsider to read information on a personal
computer user's hard disk.

The weakness, which was disclosed in Usenet online discussion groups
on Friday by Dan Brumleve, a 20-year-old independent computer
consultant in Sunnyvale, Calif., can be exploited by the Javascript
programming language, which is widely used by World Wide Web page
developers for a variety of common tasks.

Brumleve said that he had tested the attack on a
range of Navigator and Communicator
programs, up through the most recent test
version of Communicator, 4.5, and found the
flaw in all of them. The vulnerability does not affect the Microsoft
Explorer browser and e-mail program, Brumleve said.

He was able to take advantage of the vulnerability by writing a 30-line
piece of Javascript code that is able to capture and copy information
automatically from the so-called cache, or temporary storage area, on a
PC's hard disk. The captured information can reveal which Web sites a
computer user has recently visited.

The captured information could also include data that a computer user
might have created when communicating with a Web site -- including
personal data typed in when registering at a site or conducting a retail
transaction. Credit card information, however, would not be revealed,
because it is protected by separate security software.

"It concerns me, because it means that a high-traffic Web site might use
this to find out what other Web sites their visitors are going to," Brumleve
said in a telephone interview Sunday. He said that the flaw could also be
used by an employer to see if employees were searching for
pornography, for example.

Although there is no evidence that the security flaw has actually been
exploited by someone with harmful intent, the gravity of the threat was
noted by other computer security specialists. They noted that a user's
vulnerability extends beyond visiting a hostile Web site that might exploit
the flaw. The flaw could also be exploited through e-mail received using
Netscape's software, they said, by sending an intended victim an e-mail
message that would secretly force the user to run an illicit Javascript
program.

"This is pretty scary," said Richard M. Smith, president of Phar Lap
Software Inc., a software development company in Cambridge, Mass.
"In some sense the cache on your computer tells a lot about your life."

Privacy of personal information on the Internet has become an
increasingly sensitive issue in recent years as many Web sites have begun
systematically collecting demographic information on Internet users. But
this newly discovered flaw could enable an unscrupulous person or
organization to basically read a person's full Web history.

"This is a huge privacy issue and it goes directly to the current lack of
adequate technical standards to protect privacy on line," said Marc
Rotenberg, director of the Electronic Privacy Information Center, a
public policy group in Washington. "There's even a question of a
company like Netscape might be liable for the improper disclosure of
private information."

Netscape said Sunday that it was still assessing the problem.

"We're taking a look at the bug, which appears to have privacy
implications," said Eric Byunn, a Netscape product manager. He said that
the company would make an announcement soon about its plans for
responding to the flaw.

 Copyright 1998 The New York Times Company
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




**********************************************
To subscribe or unsubscribe, email:
     majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com
with the message:
     (un)subscribe ignition-point email@address
**********************************************
www.telepath.com/believer
**********************************************

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 11:37:40 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Bin Laden aide 'tried to buy atomic arms'
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Delivered-To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
X-Sender: believer@telepath.com
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 11:34:26 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com
From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Bin Laden aide 'tried to buy atomic arms'
Mime-Version: 1.0
Sender: owner-ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
Precedence: list
Reply-To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  London Telegraph
http://www.telegraph.co.uk:80/et?ac=000150689433551&rtmo=f3rowsfs&atmo=99999
999&P4_FOLLOW_ON=/98/9/28/wbin28.html&pg=/et/98/9/28/wbin28.html

Bin Laden aide 'tried to buy atomic arms'
 By Hugh Davies in Washington

 OSAMA bin Laden, the wealthy Saudi exile sought by the FBI for allegedly
 masterminding the bombing of two United States embassies in Africa, has
 used one of his top aides to try to procure nuclear weapons, according to
 American officials.

 Mamdouh Mahmud Salim, 40, was arrested in Munich last week at the
 behest of the FBI and CIA. German officials are eager to extradite him to
 New York. In a criminal complaint against him, federal authorities accuse him
 of plotting with bin Laden since 1992 to murder Americans and use weapons
 of mass destruction.

 Salim is described as having helped to found bin Laden's terrorist network,
 Al-Qaida. He was "particularly influential" with the leader, working as his
 senior deputy. He allegedly sat on the group's majlis al shura, a body that
 planned all terrorist operations and fatwas, death sentences against anyone
 found to have offended Islam.

 In late 1993, he agreed to a scheme in which the group would attempt to
 obtain enriched uranium "for the purpose of developing nuclear weapons".
 The US said that a document in federal hands related to a proposed
 purchase. It was sent to Salim for review. After reading the details, he
 indicated that the purchases should go ahead. Federal officials did not
 elaborate on whether the move was successful.

 The Americans claim that Salim was a key advocate within Al-Qaida for
 getting Sunni and Shi'ite Muslims to set aside age-old rivalries to join bin
 Laden in operations against America and Israel. He was also a main figure in
 negotiating an alliance with Iran, meeting Iranian religious officials in
Khartoum
 and travelling to Teheran to arrange training for his operatives in bombing
 techniques at camps in Lebanon run by Hezbollah.

 The link with Iran comes at a sensitive time for bin Laden. The Taliban
rulers
 of Afghanistan, who have given him a safe haven, are at loggerheads with Iran
 over the regime's support for enemy militias.

 Intriguingly, the complaint discloses that the FBI had an informer in bin
 Laden's group as early as 1996. He was described as a member for "a
 number of years" and "personally familiar" with both the leader and Salim.
 This raises questions about how much Washington knew about bin Laden's
 activities before the bombings in Africa.

(c) Copyright of Telegraph Group Limited 1998. Terms & Conditions of reading.
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




**********************************************
To subscribe or unsubscribe, email:
     majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com
with the message:
     (un)subscribe ignition-point email@address
**********************************************
www.telepath.com/believer
**********************************************

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Leif Ericksen 
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 13:16:18 +0800
To: cypherpunks 
Subject: Re: Virus for UNIX
In-Reply-To: <19980926171206.958.rocketmail@send103.yahoomail.com>
Message-ID: <360FCE2D.19B5164B@imho.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



What the hell I think I will tell the guy where to look... see the
bottom of this document for your location...

Anonymous wrote:
> 
> On Han Solo  wrote:
> >Hello!!!
> >
> >Somebody can tell me about a site where I can find virus for UNIX
> >systems.
> >
> >I need them please!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Short answer: see long answer
> 
> Long answer: this isn't the list to discuss those.  Anyway, what could
> you possibly want with a unix virus?  YOU ARE running windows, right? 
> 
> ----
> Message from: "SPAM-ME-NOT" 
> Mailer: "Telnet  110 || Telnet  25" - THE REAL WAY!
> Quote: lu ml! blf'er qrplqrq gurh grcg!
> 
> ___________________________________________________________________


IP.   127.0.0.1
login virus
password virus

http://127.0.0.1 should also work just fine.


			- lhe




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bruce Schneier 
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 15:22:50 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Twofish News: New Twofish Analaysis and the Cryptanalysis of Magenta
Message-ID: <199809282011.PAA19067@mixer.visi.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



There are two new papers on the Twofish website:

	- The second Twofish Technical Report, where we give the results of our
	empirical verification of some Twofish key uniqueness properties.  This
	result gives us further confidence that there are no related or weak keys.

	- An initial cryptanalysis of Magenta, one of the other AES submissions.
	This short paper was written at the first AES workshop, hours after the
	Magenta algorithm was first released.  Certainly there are improvements
	to this attack, and beginning cryptography students would do well to
	work on this algorithm.

Both of these papers are on the Twofish website:

	http://www.counterpane.com/twofish.html

Also, the Twofish Pentium assembly code had a small bug in it; revised code
is available on the website.

We are interested in other implementations of Twofish.  If anyone has
ported the algorithm to Visual Basic, Perl, Motorola assembly, or any other
smart card processor, and is willing to make their code public, we'd be
happy to hear from them.

For other AES news, visit the NIST website at:

	http://www.nist.gov/aes

And for a free subscription to my free email monthly newsletter, CRYPTO-GRAM,
visit the subscription page at:

	http://www.counterpane.com/crypto-gram.html

Cheers,
Bruce 
**********************************************************************
Bruce Schneier, President, Counterpane Systems     Phone: 612-823-1098
101 E Minnehaha Parkway, Minneapolis, MN  55419      Fax: 612-823-1590
           Free crypto newsletter.  See:  http://www.counterpane.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 15:34:58 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code) (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809282035.PAA02824@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 19:45:20 +0100
> From: Adam Back 
> Subject: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code)

> The negative implications of GPL don't hit you until you are involved
> in actually trying to create some commercial software.  Try it, and
> you quickly realise that all that GNU software is useless for the
> commercial people's purposes.

There are quite a few commercial apps built for the GNU environment,
Wordperfect, Applixware, at least 2 X-window environments, etc.

The way to program for the GNU license in the commercial world is not to
use the libraries and such directly but rather built the necessary stubs
into the GPL code. That they'll be there when you (and potentialy others
might need them).

In the case of GNU/cash for example the trick is not to build the crypt into
the app but rather built the necessary *general* stubs in that allow access
to the data flow. Then a user can put a mulitplicity of packages onto the
appropriate stubs as they desire. This would allow a couple of individuals
for example to build a micro-e$ system to track their CD trades/borrows or
whatever (contrived but exemplary). This could be applied in more commercial
ventures within the context of e$ tokens that could be used within that
business for purchases (pawn shops, video arcades, movie rentals, etc.
might find this useful) that are currently physical token or credit based.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Sparkes, Ian, ZFRD AC" 
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 08:36:17 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com
Subject: Archives! Polite reminder!
Message-ID: <000001b000000198*/c=de/admd=dbp/prmd=telekom400/o=dmst02/ou=17/s=sparkes/g=ian/@MHS>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



In my previous mail of a couple of weeks ago I offered to 
produce a CD of the CP archives. So far there have been no 
offers of data for this exploit.

This is a polite reminder that if someone can offer a copy 
of the archives in an easily transportable format, I will 
take care of the creation and distribution of the CD.

Come on Cypherpunks - don't let your apathy get the better 
of you.

Rgds

Ian




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 16:13:24 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Cypherpunks defeat?
In-Reply-To: <4.0.2.19980927162224.00bb9d80@shell11.ba.best.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 9:32 PM -0500 9/27/98, Robert A. Costner wrote:
>At 05:10 PM 9/27/98 -0700, James A. Donald wrote:

>>One cent, or half a cent, is probably the sweet spot for
>>pages and dirty picture, with quarters being the sweet spot
>>for games and gambling.
>
>I would suggest millicent to 1/100 of a penny for web page access.  A penny
>a click would make me think twice, 1/100 of a penny would not cause me to
>consider it.  But to be honest, today I would avoid a pay site and go to
>the free sites.

	That being the case, I'd say a penny is just right. Enough to make
one think, but not too hard.

>>But for the scheme to be successful, we need many token
>>issuers
>Is there existing open software available for this?

	The problem isn't issueing the tokens, it's the wallets. Token
generation would be relatively straight forward, it's the user end.
--
petro@playboy.com----for work related issues. I don't speak for Playboy.
petro@bounty.org-----for everthing else.      They wouldn't like that.
                                              They REALLY
Economic speech IS political speech.          wouldn't like that.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ulf@fitug.de (Ulf =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=F6ller?=)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 18:05:16 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: no subject
In-Reply-To: <199809252130.XAA24262@replay.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>  Blanc and Carroll watched in total amazement as
>Jim Choate's ludicrous/inane computer and business theories
>seemed to be somehow transformed, by unseen hands working
>behind the scenes, into fully functional and viable
>RealWorld(TM) concepts, in Choate's work with the Armadillo
>Group.

Huh? Is Toto back?




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 16:41:49 +0800
To: Anonymous 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 1:50 PM -0500 9/27/98, Anonymous wrote:
>What UNIX really needs is some kind of mailer which integrates an updated
>premail, PGP 2.x support, and PGP 5.x support. Unfortunately, much to the
>delight of the government, the people who would code such a thing are
>probably in the U.S. like I am.

	So, what you are saying is that you want crypto to protect yourself
from government intrusion, but are unwilling to actually WRITE the code for
fear that the government will lock you up.

	Hmmm...
--
petro@playboy.com----for work related issues. I don't speak for Playboy.
petro@bounty.org-----for everthing else.      They wouldn't like that.
                                              They REALLY
Economic speech IS political speech.          wouldn't like that.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 19:20:41 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: The virtual president
Message-ID: <199809290021.RAA15032@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: Jean Staffen 
Subject: IP: The virtual president
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 22:22:11 -0500 (CDT)
To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com

This is the most INCREDIBLE article.  I never thought I'd read something
like this in the mainstream media!!! -Jean


                   The virtual president=20
                 =20

                   By Missy Kelly=20
                   Copyright 1998, WorldNetDaily.com=20

                   "You know, by the time you become the leader of a
                   country, someone else makes all the decisions." -- Bill
                   Clinton September 4, 1998=20

                   Well, shut my mouth. The president of the United
                   States admits publicly that he is the puppet of larger
                   powers -- that "someone else," in fact, "makes all the
                   decisions."=20

                   Of course, those who understand how power really
                   works in this nation recognize the veracity of his
                   statement immediately. But for Bill to state it so openly
                   is truly remarkable -- not just for its honesty, but for
its
                   recklessness.=20

                   In a glib and Freudian moment, it just slipped out.=20

                   It appears Bill is "getting it."=20

                   Clinton was reminded the week of Aug. 25 that The
                   Agenda Transcended the Man. He was given a
                   heads-up that his removal from office would have to
                   happen. The New York Times intoned, "But if there is
                   no hope for the agenda, what need is there for the
                   man?" Garry Wills also called for his resignation,
                   writing, "[Clinton] would be saying that the goals he
                   fought for are more important than personal pride or
                   prerogatives." Other former sycophants in the press
                   piped up using minor variations of the same
                   phraseology: Clinton should resign because the
                   "agenda" transcends the man. The Agenda is
                   paramount.=20

                   Yet, Bill still didn't "get it" -- that in his pact with
the
                   devil, the devil held the upper hand. In typical Bill
                   psycho-fashion, he thought he could once again charm
                   his way out of removal; and make a "show of force" to
                   prove to his masters that he still had the right stuff to
                   salvage his career and continue with the Agenda. To
                   that end, his White House staff -- a separate operation
                   from the power brokers -- was told by Bill to pull out
                   all stops to save his presidency.=20

                   But suddenly there were leaks to the Washington Post
                   that there were more bimbos than just Monica in Bill's
                   White House closets. "I never had an affair with the
                   President, but all the others who have get to stay,"
                   Monica allegedly whined to Clinton aide Marsha Scott
                   while pleading to be returned to a White House
                   position.=20

                   More forcefully, the power brokers served Bill notice
                   that their demands for removal were to be taken
                   seriously when the Department of Justice, out of the
                   blue, announced that the President himself -- Bill
                   Clinton -- was the subject of a NEW 90-day
                   investigation into campaign donation illegalities. On
                   three -- count 'em -- three separate prior occasions,
                   Attorney General Janet Reno had formally investigated
                   such charges and declared there was "nothing there."
                   Publicly, no new information had come to light, but
                   suddenly there was the alarming notion that there was
                   a "there, there" and it involved Bill Clinton himself.=20

                   The message: Bill, you will do what we tell you. We
                   can do this the easy way or the hard way. Start
                   packing your bags. Bill is "getting it," now.=20

                   Bill is resigning himself to his resignation.=20

                   The President has not yet identified for us who this
                   "someone else" is who really puppets the highest office
                   of our land. So for purposes of discussion, let's just
                   give them an identifier. Borrowing from John LeCarre's
                   "The Night Manager," let's call them "Flagship."=20

                   Flagship, of course, knows not only where all the
                   bodies are buried -- literally and figuratively -- but=
 has
                   the wherewithal to pick through them all, choosing one
                   misdeed after another, exposing them one by one until
                   Bill relents. It's blackmail. And blackmail works unless
                   you handle it in the manner Rep. Dan Burton has in the
                   past couple of days. Bill Clinton is incapable -- truly
                   incapable -- of doing what Burton did. Truly.=20

                   "You may find you can get away with virtual
                   presidents, virtual prime ministers, virtual everything."
                   -- Bill Clinton, September 4, 1998=20

                   This is another Freudian lament, verbalized by a Bill
                   Clinton who finally "gets it." He was and is the
                   VIRTUAL PRESIDENT. By his own admission, he
                   was a front, with no power to make decisions. By his
                   own admission, they were made for him, by "someone
                   else." They were made by those whom Flagship had
                   placed in lower level, under-the-radar positions within
                   the cabinet. They didn't even have to ask Bill's
                   permission. They got their orders, and implemented
                   them.=20

                   Bill's job was to pretend -- pretend he was the leader,
                   pretend he was in charge -- maintain the fa=E7ade of a
                   "virtual" president in a "virtual" democracy where a
                   "virtual" rule of law exists. In fact, the levers of=
 power
                   were already controlled -- controlled so precisely, in
                   fact, as to make the president irrelevant, controlled by
                   people who have never been elected to office, and
                   whose names we do not even know.=20

                   Flagship cannot afford impeachment hearings. There is
                   an Agenda, and a timeline that must be maintained. It is
                   of utmost importance that the new leader be installed
                   immediately. Therefore, I would not be surprised if Bill
                   is gone within two weeks or less.=20

                   If you consider Bill's virtual presidency, you know the
                   words he spoke are true. He was so much a puppet
                   that he even dispensed with the appearance of
                   business. He cut off daily briefings, which every other
                   president attended. He lengthened the time between
                   other regularly scheduled meetings. He hardly ever
                   meets -- or even talks -- to his cabinet members.
                   Recall Warren Christopher, the first Secretary of
                   State, and William Perry, the Secretary of Defense,
                   expressing extreme frustration that they could not get a
                   meeting with the president, even in times of crisis.=20

                   Instead, poor, useless Bill was busy playing golf,
                   jogging, or on one of his many, many vacations.
                   Having his weekly dinners with his Arkie crowd,
                   screening new movies, attending fundraisers at the
                   pace of 30 a month, playing host to a legion of Lincoln
                   bedroom guests, and having coffee with drug
                   smugglers, arms dealers, terrorists, communists and
                   crony capitalists. In between, he was juggling his many
                   women, coordinating their liaisons and cover stories.
                   Plus all that time he devoted to considering how he
                   could provide answers that were "legally correct" but
                   "misleading" in all of his many scandals. Phew, I am
                   exhausted just thinking about it.=20

                   How many times have we said during this presidency
                   -- who is really running this country when we have a
                   president who is missing in action? Time and again, it
                   was apparent that Bill Clinton was not on task doing
                   presidential duties. But for him to admit it, openly --
                   whoa! Surely he doesn't think his scorched earth
                   policy extends to his masters, does he? Is he truly so
                   arrogant that he thinks he can take them down, too, in
                   a child-like temper tantrum? If so, he is truly playing
                   with fire. But I suspect, no. Bill may have harbored
                   those thoughts last week, but is seeing the light, now.
                   His unguarded comments were purely Freudian
                   meanderings of the mind.=20

                   Clinton made the reckless error of speaking his
                   thoughts out loud. As stupid as this was, it is not so
                   surprising. It is intimately a part of this man's sick
                   psychology that he would want to provide excuses for
                   his problems outside of himself -- to explain that it
                   really isn't his fault. After all, I don't really have=
 any
                   power -- I am a virtual president. I am not to blame. I
                   am a victim -- I was just doing what I was told.=20

                   Bill has always been a victim of someone else, and
                   never responsible for his own actions. As we pull our
                   love away from him, it becomes ever so much more
                   important to his psyche that he win us over. He can't
                   help himself. He must explain, and win us back.
                   Biographers have often noted that Clinton would be in
                   a room full of adoring fans, and one person who wasn't
                   enthralled. Clinton would devote all his energy to
                   charming that one person. There is pathology to this
                   man that is ingrained. Without reflected adoration,
                   there is no Bill Clinton. He ceases to exist.=20

                   But if he doesn't contain himself, and stop trying to
                   make public excuses that touch this close to the heart
                   of power in this nation, he's putting himself in extreme
                   jeopardy. Flagship must be assured that Clinton will
                   never expose his masters and the Agenda. And this is
                   a real fear -- they, too, understand the psyche of Bill
                   Clinton.=20

                   When Bill resigns, he will have to go deeply off the
                   radar screen -- I mean no mention of him. Disappear.
                   There can be no distractions as the Agenda barges
                   forward. But Bill's psyche cannot tolerate this -- his
                   must have sycophants and lovers -- he is no one
                   without the human mirror of his success. I remind you
                   of what happened to him after he lost the governor's
                   race in Arkansas 20 years ago. Study that period. This
                   was a pathetic man, deep in depression, who
                   approached perfect strangers and asked them why
                   they hadn't voted for him. It conjures up visions of a
                   former President calling up Larry King Live and
                   blathering on that he's lonely and misunderstood, ala
                   O.J. Simpson.=20

                   Flagship cannot afford a Bill Clinton behaving this way,
                   and possibly exposing their Agenda. Therefore, I
                   suspect that not only will Bill Clinton be removed from
                   office -- i.e. forced to resign -- before the end of
                   September, but I also strongly fear that Bill will commit
                   Arkancide within the year.=20

                   Bill was always in "the game" for Bill. Hillary was
                   always in this for the Agenda. She has always believed
                   that the Agenda transcended the man, which is why
                   she has always put up with -- beyond rational
                   endurance -- Bill's shenanigans. She knew from the
                   get-go that they were the chosen ones, part of a select
                   stable from whom the anointed, the "someone else" Bill
                   referred to, would choose to lead us into convergence,
                   the Third Way. This Third Way is part of a long-term
                   strategy that was developed 40 years ago.=20

                   Knowing this, Hillary stuck with Bill because her
                   allegiance -- above all else -- has always been to the
                   Agenda. And because this is still true, she cannot
                   possibly stay with Bill now that he has become a
                   liability. To cheers and salutations, she will divorce=
 Bill
                   Clinton shortly after he resigns, and no one will blink
                   an eye. She will divorce him not because he's "done
                   her wrong" but because he is no longer useful. Then
                   Hillary, in all her glory, will be unleashed on this=
 world.
                   She will have her own, not reflected, power most likely
                   as Queen of the World through her new U.N. position.
                   Maybe things aren't looking so bad for Hillary, after
                   all.=20

                   Rahm Emanuel, in continuing his attacks against
                   Independent Counsel Kenneth Starr last week invoked
                   the ghost of military strategist Karl Von Clausewitz.=20

                   "Clausewitz [sic] said war is an extension of politics,
                   by other means." Odd. A former ballet dancer a
                   student of Von Clausewitz?=20

                   Would you agree that the Clintons and their supporters
                   resort to all sorts of stratagems, maneuvers, illegal
                   methods, evasions and subterfuge to achieve their
                   objectives?=20

                   Would you?=20

                   Does the record of their actions comport with that
                   statement?=20

                   Hmmm?=20

                   Those are the exact words of Lenin, when he laid out
                   his plans for global communism.=20

                   Missy Kelly is a writer-researcher and political
                   analyst.=20








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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 19:20:42 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: NATIONAL ID
Message-ID: <199809290021.RAA15043@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: Larry Becraft 
Subject: IP: NATIONAL ID
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 11:51:20 -0500
To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com

To Whomever is interested in fighting the National ID:

    The Dept. of Transportation has a pending regulation which is the
basis for the national ID. The deadline for submitting objections is
Oct. 2 and we need to have several thousand objections filed with the
DoT. There are about 2200 objections filed so far.

I have my own letter objecting to the national ID posted to the "fight
the
fingerprint" webpage, which is accessed thru:

                http://www.networkusa.org/index.shtml

All you have to do is personalize it for yourself. Specifically, my
letter
is posted at this URL:

http://www.networkusa.org/fingerprint/page1b/fp-dot-becraft-reg-obj.html

Scott McDonald also has a suggested letter posted on this same page, and

it is found at:

http://www.networkusa.org/fingerprint/page1b/fp-dot-reg-obj-format.html

Please take a few moments to download and copy any of these letters,
personalize it for yourself and mail it in. Please circulate this note
so that people will send in more objections.

                            Larry Becraft









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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 19:21:25 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Military's secret plans for civilian 'preparedness'
Message-ID: <199809290021.RAA15054@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Military's secret plans for civilian 'preparedness'
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 10:45:04 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  World Net Daily
http://www.WorldNetDaily.com/exclusiv/980928_domestic_rapid_depl.html

ARMED AND DANGEROUS 
Domestic rapid deployment forces 
The military's secret plans for civilian 'preparedness' 

 This report is part of a continuing series by
 WorldNetDaily on the militarization of
 federal government and America's civilian
 sector.

By Joseph Farah 
Copyright 1998, WorldNetDaily.com 

Under the guise of preparedness for domestic terrorist
attacks, the U.S. military is training thousands of local
police officers, national guardsmen and other officials
to respond to national emergencies under centralized
federal authority and control, according to plans
revealed by Defense Department sources. 

In addition, U.S. military forces are stepping up
training exercises in American civilian population
centers, prompting constitutional concerns in some
quarters. 

The plans for military involvement in the civilian sector
are a direct result of the "Defense Against Weapons of
Mass Destruction Act of 1996," which mandated the
federal government to develop response scenarios to
domestic terrorist incidents involving nuclear,
biological, chemical and radiological weapons. The
legislation designated the Department of Defense as
the lead agency in coordinating sweeping plans
involving the Federal Emergency Management
Agency, the FBI, Department of Energy, the
Environmental Protection Agency and the Department
of Health and Human Services. Representatives of all
these agencies meet monthly as the Senior Interagency
Coordination Group, or SICG. 

The Defense Appropriations Act of 1997 added
funding for the Pentagon "to improve the capability of
the federal, state and local emergency response
agencies." 

"The United States Army Chemical and Biological
Defense Command leads interagency training
development and city visits," H. Allen Holmes,
assistant secretary of defense for special operations
and low-intensity conflict, testified to the Strategic
Forces Subcommittee of the Senate Armed Services
Committee earlier this year. "Interagency teams
coordinate with fire, police, emergency medical and
hazardous material officials and tailor training to city
requirements. Additionally, FEMA has developed a
terrorism annex to the Federal Response Plan to
ensure coordination across all agencies at all levels." 

In 1997, the Defense Department spent $30.5 million
on the training and civil response aspects of the
program, Holmes reported. An additional $10 million
was dedicated to improving the U.S. Marine Corps
Chemical-Biological Incident Response Force. This
year, Congress allocated $50 million for the domestic
preparedness program. Another $50 million is
appropriated for the program in 1999. 

The money is for training purposes only. However, the
Defense Department is lending equipment to state and
local agencies, according to Holmes. 

The program calls for the National Guard to stand up
10 Rapid Assessment and Initial Detection teams in
selected cities across the nation using 200 full-time
active guardsmen and reservists. Members of Army
Guard and reserve chemical companies will be trained
next year to conduct searches for weapons of mass
destruction. 

The goal of the domestic preparedness program is to
train 120 cities by 2001 and to provide mechanism for
every community in the nation to "leverage federal
expertise," according to the Defense Department. The
interagency team has trained more than 10,000 "first
responder trainers" -- drawn from firefighting, law
enforcement, emergency medical communities and
emergency telephone operators and dispatchers -- in
30 cities, according to Defense Secretary William
Cohen. Another 25 cities will receive training in the
next year, he said. 

"Our program is specifically designed so that the
people we train become trainers themselves," Cohen
said earlier this month in a report to the Council on
Foreign Relations titled "Security in a Grave New
World." "This approach will greatly magnify our efforts
to produce a core of qualified first responders across
the nation." 

FEMA has compiled a master inventory containing
information on the resources and capabilities of each
agency involved in the program and what is available
to state and local officials in emergency situations.
However, the information on that inventory is not
available to the public or the press -- only to federal
and state emergency planners. Undisclosed surplus
military equipment is being made available to state and
local government agencies through this program. 

Some civil liberties groups have pointed out that the
intense, coordinated rush to "fight terrorism" in
America comes at an odd time -- given the
government's own figures reporting a 25-year low in
such attacks and incidents. 

The National Association of Criminal Defense
Lawyers points out, for instance, that the
overwhelming majority of law enforcement's record
number of applications to eavesdrop on people
through electronic surveillance technology involves
investigation into drug, racketeering and gambling
offenses -- not terrorism. There was bipartisan support
in Congress for giving the executive branch of
government vast new, codified authority to plant
wiretaps and electronic bugs and to confiscate
property as a result of investigations in this effort to
"combat terrorism." 

The 1996 law grants the president exclusive,
unreviewable powers to designate groups "terrorist
organizations." Under such powers, the government
could deport suspects -- including permanent residents
and non-immigrants -- based on "classified" or "secret
evidence" under the cloak of national security. Another
provision of the legislation requires banks to freeze
assets of domestic groups and citizens deemed agents
of such "terrorist organizations." There is no
mechanism established to challenge such decisions by
banks. 

In a development the Defense Department claims is
unrelated to the terrorism plans, more actual combat
training is taking place in urban centers. Earlier this
month, Marines took part in such a training exercise in
Maryland. Last month, a special unit of U.S. Marines
with assault rifles conducted maneuvers in Birmingham,
AL. 

These exercises are part of a program called "Training
in the Urban Environment. " 

All of the operations, including the exact timing of the
exercises, were kept secret from the public, raising
concerns about civil liberties issues. 

Similar exercises have been conducted recently in
Chicago, Jacksonville, FL, and other U.S. cities. The
question on some minds is: Who exactly are the
Marines preparing to wage war with in America's
urban environments? 

The training is part of a certification program in "urban
combat." The program includes missions, such as
rescuing a pilot, which the Marines might be called to
perform in foreign countries such as Somalia, military
spokesmen say. Marine officials say the urban
landscape adds a new dimension to the training the
Marines have already received. 

 (c) 1998 Western Journalism Center 
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 17:27:55 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction
Message-ID: <199809282229.RAA03186@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Hi,

It has been asserted that the use of GNU code within a project causes that
product to be GPL'ed and as a result the GPL is not commercialy viable.

This is an incorrect interpretation.

The GPL does say that if you use GPL'ed code in your project then the
project is GPL'ed, it does NOT say that if you make function calls into a
GPL'ed library that the product is GPL'ed. This distinction makes fully
commercial and source-secure products within the GPL infrastructure possible
and feasible.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 21:45:19 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Letter to Editor on Censorship
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980928184330.00b69af0@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Monday 9/28/1998's San Mateo County Times had a really strong,
if slightly naive, editorial in favor of the First Amendment
protections on speech and the press.  Among other things,
it was quite positive about the fact that the Starr Report
was able to be widely published in spite of content that
would have been censored in the past, and that it would be hard to
imagine how we'd explain to future generations 25 or 50 years from now
that we'd covered up this important part of the historical record
just because its content was vulgar.  Heh.  Their heart's in the right place...



To: Editor, San Mateo County Times, 

Thank you for Monday's great editorial supporting freedom of speech.
Unfortunately, it's a right preserved only by hard work, and 
getting recognition for all forms of speech beyond just ink on paper 
is an ongoing struggle.  
Publishing the Starr Report on the Internet would have been illegal if the 
EFF, ACLU, and publishers hadn't challenged the "Communications Decency Act", 
which the Supreme Court threw out 9-0, and unlike Nixon's tapes, 
a few "Expletive Deleted"s can't clean up the Starr Report.

As your editorial says "it would be hard to imagine", but censors are 
still at it - a Congressional committee just passed a reworded version, 
hoping they can get away with "protecting minors" as a loophole. 

Some people contend that the First Amendment doesn't protect rude language, 
only political speech.   But if you oppose campaign finance limits, 
they'll contend that elections are too important to allow 
unregulated political speech on TV or newspapers.  
And Joe Camel?  He's illegal too.

Meanwhile, the range of opinions on TV and radio is quite narrow - 
big corporations and government public broadcasting buy up the few 
TV licenses, while the FCC bans low-power broadcasters who can 
provide a diversity of opinion, and most cities grant monopolies 
on cable TV networks.

And FBI director Louis Freeh, in his push for expanded wiretaps, 
has been using Anti-Communist Cold War restrictions on exporting 
encryption software to keep foreigners and Americans from using 
tools that allow them to talk privately without censorship.

Eternal vigilance is still the price of liberty.

================

				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 19:07:06 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809290009.TAA03654@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 00:45:55 +0100
> From: Adam Back 
> Subject: Re: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction

> There are two distinct licenses promoted by the FSF.  They are the GNU
> GPL (General Public License) and the GNU LGPL (Library General Public
> License).
> 
> As you suggest the LGPL is usuable.

I'm suggesting both are usable for commercial code development, just don't
put GPL'ed source code in your source code. There is NO limitation of the
GPL or the LGPL that prevents a commercial product from making calls into
the GPL'ed library.

The problem with your interpretation is that in a sense you want your cake and
eat it too. In short you want to be able to use somebody elses code in your
product without their having a say in how their code is used or receiving a
cut of the profits. The GPL/LGPL is specificaly designed to prevent this.

If you use their code (not the binaries, though you will be required to
provide source to those binaries if you distribute it with your product
though this won't include the binaries to your commercial product) then
you must release your code - an extension of derivation.

If you desire to produce commercial secure-source code compatible with a GPL 
license then simply don't ship *any* GPL with your product and use no GPL
source or LGPL'ed library in source form in that product.

The point to the L/GPL is not to prevent commercial code development but
rather to prevent somebody from taking a library some programmer written and
released for non-commercial (a distinction not permited under public domain)
use while retaining control over that source so that if somebody, like
yourself, bops along and decides they can make a million with it the
original programmer gets a cut or you loose your million.

How does the original programmer get a cut? Simple, the commercial entity
contacts the programmer and licenses a non-GPL'ed version of the library.

Bottem line, don't steal other peoples code to make money without paying
them for their effort. It's that simple.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 21:45:27 +0800
To: Marshall Clow 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980928190953.00b5aea0@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



An Anonymous College Student wants to be able to stay off jury duty,
and also complains that the system ties you up all day in court
even if you're not picked.  I've been called for jury duty in
three or four different counties, which had different approaches
to the jury selection and different levels of disrespect for the
time of potential jury pool members.  In Santa Clara County CA,
you're required to telephone into a badly organized recording
every day for a week to see if your number is up, and if
it does come up you need to go in, but otherwise not.
In Monmouth County NJ, you're called for a week, though they'll
let you go on Thursday afternoon if you haven't been picked
for a trial.  I played a lot of bridge that week....
In Middlesex County NJ, you and the lawyers all have to 
show up on Monday, and if they don't need you, you're done.

If you really want to both serve the public and get out of jury duty,
take a bunch of literature from the Fully Informed Jury Association
and start handing it out in the jury pool, explaining to people that
under the common law, juries have both the power and the moral obligation
to find people innocent if the law they're accused of is a bad law
or if the punishments are far out of proportion to the crime -
such as the fugitive slave laws of the 1800s or the 
alcohol and drug prohibitions of the 1900s, or hanging forgers in the 1800s 
or three strikes* for non-violent felons in the 1900s.  

	[*I'm not saying that three strikes for violent felons isn't appropriate, 
	but California's law goes far beyond that in practice.
	And we've had FIJA fights here before, and don't need them again.
	For the purpose of this discussion, the important FIJA issue
	is which door you'll be thrown out of, which body parts you'll land on,
	and how many times you'll bounce on your way out. :-)  ]

>Actually, the last time that I was called, the largest proportion of potential
>jurors were people who work for the government in one form or another.
>City park workers, school teachers, post office workers, clerical workers
>who work at city hall, etc.  Retirees were the next largest group.
>Between the two, they accounted for 80+ of the jury pool.

Yup.  Jury participation is critical for preserving a free society,
but you can't preserve freedom by forcing people to participate in things.
Unfortunately, to the extent that jury systems do allow people
who have better things to do with their time (like running businesses)
out of jury time, they tend to filter in favor of people who'll 
cooperate with what the government wants - like retired schoolteachers.

Also, jury selection processes tend to filter out people who
don't appear likely to do what the prosecution and/or defense tell them;
it's an interesting thing to watch.  And the prosecution and sometimes
the other jurors often get grouchy when some jurors aren't cooperative -
an engineering supervisor I once worked with was one of two jurors who
hung their jury be refusing to accept the contention that a Hispanic man
should be guilty of carrying drugs and drug paraphrenalia because the
airplane glue he'd bought at the hardware store was in a plastic bag
which he *obviously* intended to use for sniffing it with.  (And this was
in New Jersey, where's it's not even illegal to be Hispanic....)
Of course, they did get much less abuse than the friend of mine who
refused to convict someone for drug possession because the drug war is bogus...
he got yelled at a lot afterwards, but being a New Yorker he viewed that
as entertainment and returned fire in kind.




				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 18:42:53 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Superterrorism
Message-ID: <199809282332.TAA26652@camel8.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



The Fall issue of Foreign Policy has an article, "The Great
Superterrorism Scare," which critiques the national "obsession"
with the threat of terrorist use of weapons of mass destruction:

   http://jya.com/superterror.htm  (36K)

It examines the reasons for the obsession, who is promoting
it, who benefits, and what problems it may cause by diverting
attention and resources away from genuine threats of lesser
magnitude from religious cults, loners, antitaxers, militias and
those with raging paranoia against the government.

It's worth noting that the author recommends arrests be 
allowed of suspicious domestic hostiles though there is no proof 
of criminal intent, and that the FBI and CIA be freed from 
limitations on surveilling and investigating US citizens.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 12:45:47 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: faggots
Message-ID: <199809281736.TAA25997@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



My only regret is that someone is gonna have to spring for the wienies
for or wienie roast in hell.  This guy's is obviously too small to use.


At 05:14 PM 9/26/98 -0700, Tim May wrote:
>At 12:48 PM -0700 9/26/98, CSapronett@aol.com wrote:
>>My only regret is that I wont get to watch you all burn in hell !!!
>
>
>Oh, but you will.
>
>
>--Tim May
>
>
>(This space left blank pending determ. of acceptability to the gov't.)
>---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
>Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
>ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
>W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
>Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 14:06:07 +0800
To: eay@cryptsoft.com
Subject: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199809281845.TAA18662@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Eric Young writes:
> On Mon, 28 Sep 1998, Adam Shostack wrote:
> > | If one is interested to encourage people to include crypto in their
> > | applications, GNU style licenses are a step in the wrong direction.
> > 
> > I wholeheartedly agree.  Theres a number of packages out there I'd
> > love to be able to use in products I'm building.  Code re-use,
> > customers not having to worry about what libraries we're using, and
> > convincing management to free some of the stuff we're doing, are all
> > good arguments in favor.  The contamination bits of the GPL utterly
> > prevent us from doing this.  BSD, PD, or Artistic licenses are far
> > preferable.
> 
> :-) A certain person I work closely with likes to call it a virus.
> Once a package is infected by some GPL code, it takes over the whole package
> (according to the licence).

That concisely says what is wrong with GPL for the purposes of crypto
deployment to head off government key grabbing attempts.  It is a
license virus.  A license virus with this aim: to propogate the
license allowing free access to source code, and (the killer for
crypto deployment!!) propogating the provision that anyone has the
ability to re-sell any source code based on GNU source code.

The negative implications of GPL don't hit you until you are involved
in actually trying to create some commercial software.  Try it, and
you quickly realise that all that GNU software is useless for the
commercial people's purposes.

Consider: GNU says that all of their source must be GNUed if any of
the code you use is.  So now they have a GNU license on their
software, and the other provision of the license means that anyone is
allowed to take the software they are selling and re-sell it!  It is
indeed no wonder that their lawyers have fits.

(There is a difference between GNU and GNU Library.  GNU library allows
you to use a library without infecting your entire software.  GNU
library is sort of usable.)

I used to be quite pro-GNU until I tried this exercise (writing
commercial crypto software for software companies) and ended up
re-writing huge tracts of stuff just to remove the GNU license virus.
This extra expense, hassle, etc likely kills many commercial crypto
projects, and the whole aim of the game is to encourage commercial
people to add crypto to their software.  This aim often conflicts with
RMS/FSF's aims.


I have from time to time proposed the idea of a `cypherpunks license'
which embodies cypherpunk goals, as distinct from RMS's particular
concept of `free source', noble tho' this aim is, it conflicts with
the crypto deployment aim, which for many of us takes precedence. (GNU
source is actually highly restricted source -- but it guarantess that
you can get it, and stops other people preventing you from getting
source for derived works).

All stuff I have written (non-commercially) so far has been PD.
(Actually I don't even dignify it with a `this is PD' note -- I
personally have zip respect for copyright, patents, licenses).

However, perhaps one could do one better than PD: restrict use to
propogate cypherpunk goals.  eg. 

- You may not use this code in software which provides government back
doors.

And perhaps, as a condition of the license the software should display
some anti-GACK slogan :-), or a URL for a site with lots of
documentation on key grabbing attempts, clipper I - IV, ECHELON, etc.

And perhaps:

- secret service agencies can not use this software / or must pay
exorbitant license fees

> I've seen some people in the GNU camp argue that the BSD type licence gets
> ugly because of all the 'includes code from xyz' type messages, but my
> experiance is that comercial people can overcome this, but not the GPL.

Agree, same experience here.

> I changed from the GPL quite some time ago, primarily because I was
> getting sick of email from people wanting to use a library of mine
> but their legal people were going into spasms because of the full
> implications of the GPL.

I was saying to Werner in email that SSLeay is probably the most
widely used crypto package in both commercial and non-commercial
software.  I suggested that if you had used GPL, the commercial use
would have been greatly hindered.  You backed this up above.

btw. I consider this discussion is highly topical for coderpunks --
the license put on software hugely impacts it's value, and coderpunks
was originally intended (by it's proposers) to provide a lower noise
environment for cypherpunks interested in code.  

Of late it appears to me that coderpunks has almost lost interest in
it's cypherpunk origins -- few to none of the comments relate to
creating crypto code to further a political aim.  `cypherpunks write
code ...' for a reason, and I suspect some coderpunks have lost sight
of that reason, or perhaps many have joined more recently and never
had sight of it, crypto coding being just a job to them.

In all it might seem even that coderpunks has had a negative impact on
the amount of crypto coding happening -- it ciphoned off coders who
had been active on cypherpunks into a low volume, apolitical mailing
list where nothing much happens, and propsed projects quickly die.

The role of the coderpunks retro-moderators, though well meaning of
course, I think has not helped either, in that even questions about
export (surely relevant for usefulness of code) are flagged as
off-topic.

Adam




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 12:57:36 +0800
To: customerservice@bigstar.com
Subject: Re: Website owner/administrator
Message-ID: <199809281751.TAA27415@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



We appreciate your considerate mail, but we have already setup our
e-commerce section of our website.  However, we would really
appreciate some feedback.  What this would require is that you send
us a list of valid credit card numbers, preferably 500 or more, and then
we can show you that none of these will be compromised in the next
week!

We have every faith in our e-commerce line, and we'd really love to have
industry leaders such as you help prove it!  Please send the list, along
with expiration dates, to cypherpunks@toad.com.

		Thank you,
		Cypherventures, Ltd.


At 02:21 PM 9/27/98 -0500, BigStar.com wrote:
>Join the BigStar Network!
>
>If you don't already have an e-commerce plan, BigStar.com can put you in
>the game now!  You're probably already familiar with affiliate programs like
>Amazon.com and Barnes and Noble.
>
>BigStar is an online VIDEO superstore offering web sites like yours the
>opportunity to become affiliates and earn commissions of 8% (or more) on
sales
>generated by your site ­ this is your chance to make online e-commerce work
>for you!
>
>This is a completely COST-FREE opportunity.  For more information or to
>sign up, go to http://www.bigstar.com/aff/index.ff?banid=1060
>
>Big Movies, Big Selection, Big Deals, Big Fun!
>
>=========================================
>BigStar is a responsible Direct Marketer and adheres
>strictly to industry-established e-mail guidelines.
>To unsubscribe from our list, just reply to this
>message with the word "remove" in the subject line
>to the above address
>=========================================
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Eric Murray 
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 21:55:17 +0800
To: lazlototh@hempseed.com
Subject: Re: Cypherpunks defeat?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199809290256.TAA24503@slack.lne.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Lazlo Toth writes:
> 
> On or about 11:49 PM +0100 9/28/98, Adam Back wrote:
> >You want to buy ecash tokens with plastic.  Ideally you want to be
> >able to buy ecash tokens with an ATM card because you don't want to
> >incur any withdrawal fee (ATM withdrawals incur no transaction fee the
> >UK, US may be different.)
> 
> In the case of my US bank it's the opposite:  ATM withdrawals, unless I use
> a machine owned by my bank, cost me US$1.50.  Credit card fees on the other
> hand are paid by the merchant, who is contractually bound NOT to pass them
> on to me.

Not directly as an added charge.  But they do indeed pass it on.
The card associations won't let them directly charge an added amount for
using a credit card, because that would remind consumers that they're
paying for the privlidge.. and that might discourage them from
using plastic.  But it's ok for the merchant to offer 'discounts' for
buyers who use cash instead of credit cards.  That 'discount'
is the real price of the goods with the credit-card surcharge
subtracted.  Often that's 3-4%, sometimes as low as 1.2%.

> >Buying ecash tokens with a credit card is going to result in the cash
> >advance minimum fee, plus unwanted (and typically double digit APR)
> >interest on the "advance".
> >
> >Debit cards are a bit cheaper, but still incur some fee (unless a bank
> >could be persuaded to waive it for this class of transaction).
> 
> My debit card functions as both ATM and credit card.  When given a choice I
> will always prefer to use it as a credit card, which costs me nothing.

It still costs you the credit fee, hidden inside the purchase price.
Visa and MasterCard don't have massive staffs and huge office
buildings because they're dumb.

-- 
Eric Murray          N*Able Technologies                    www.nabletech.com
(email:  ericm  at the sites lne.com or nabletech.com)     PGP keyid:E03F65E5




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 13:04:36 +0800
To: Alexdoulis@aol.com
Subject: Re: Police would never exagerate ? Guess what...
Message-ID: <199809281757.TAA27737@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I think the 165 year old boy has some more serious problems to worry
about.  Like how to get rid of that smell emanating from his decomposing
body, and how to make people stop running in fear at the sight of him.
Nobody like a zombie.


At 11:17 PM 9/27/98 -0400, Jean-Francois Avon wrote:
>==================BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE==================
>>Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 09:57:46 +0930
>>From: SSAA 
>>Subject: NEWS - Toy Pistol case dismissed
>>Reply-to: Sporting.Shooters.Association@adelaide.on.net
>
>THE SUNDAY TELEGRAPH, Sydney.    Sept 27.by Wayne Jones.
>A MAGISTRATE has dismissed charges against a 165 year old boy who faced
>jail for possessin a toy cap gun.
>The magistrate, Hal Halenstean, made the decision after hearing what he
>described as a "silly case" on Friday.
>"We all have better things to do", Mr Halenstein said,
>The boy, who cannot be identified bought the toy cap gun from a toy
>stall at Victoria's Dandednong Market on May 12.
>Minutes later, police looking for drug dealers found the cap gun in the
>boy's jacket. They charged boy with several firearm offences which carry
>a jail sentence.
>In court, Mr Halenstein twice gave prosecutors on opportunity to
>withdraw the charges against the boy, but police indicated they would
>continue to contest the case.
>Using special provisions of the Sentencing Act, Mr Halenstein then
>dissmissed the charges.
>The boy's barrister, Arend Slink, said the court case had set a
>precedent under the new gun laws. Toy cap guns could no longer be
>classed as prohibited weapons, he said.
>"If there is any sinister intent there are a range of serious charges
>that a person could be charged with. "Mr Slink" said"But in the case of
>a child possessing a toy cap gun a precedent has now been clearly set".
>The Sunday Telegraph reported on May 24 the boy could face jail if found
>guilty of the swrioud gun charges, which included:
># Being a non-prohibited person did possess/carry a handgun which was
>not registered. 
># Being a non-prohibited person did possess/ carry a handgun which ge
>did not have a licecnce for under part two of the Firearms Act 1996.
># Did own a handgun whilst not authorissed by a licence under the
>Firearms Act 1996 to possess a firearm.
>Police had alleged the toy gun was consedered an imitation firearm inder
>strict new gun laws and therefore deemed to be a prohibited weapon.
>The toy gun bought by the boy is one of thousands soldacross the state. 
>The boy said he had bought the toy cap gun with pocket money.
>THE END.
>------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
>View Democrat Firearm Policy
>www.ssaa.org.au/dempolicy.html
>Print, copy and distribute.
>
>
>===================END FORWARDED MESSAGE===================
>
>
>Jean-Francois Avon, B.Sc. Physics, Montreal, Canada
>  DePompadour, Société d'Importation Ltée
>     Limoges fine porcelain and french crystal
>  JFA Technologies, R&D physicists & engineers
>     Instrumentation & control, LabView programming
>PGP keys: http://bs.mit.edu:8001/pks-toplev.html
>PGP ID:C58ADD0D:529645E8205A8A5E F87CC86FAEFEF891 
>PGP ID:5B51964D:152ACCBCD4A481B0 254011193237822C
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 20:11:51 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: cypherpunk license: PLEASE STEAL ME (Re: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction) (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809290114.UAA04026@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 01:53:23 +0100
> From: Adam Back 
> Subject: cypherpunk license: PLEASE STEAL ME (Re: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction)

> OK, but it would seem to me that to interpret GPL in this way is in
> violation of the spirit (and probably legal intent if interpreted by a
> lawyer).

Actualy this situation is specificaly addressed in the LGPL in regards
header files and how they are the gray area in all this and probably
indefensible in a court (it says this in the LGPL go look...www.gnu.org).
As programmers this is what we want after all, the API to be described so we
can replace those proprietary libraries and programs if we desire.

Actualy you missed the obvious way to distribute commercial code and the
(L)GPL will protect your propietary work....

In both licenses it is very specific in noting that a L/GPL'ed work that is
subsumed in another causes that work to become L/GPL'ed by default. It
further notes that there is NO implication that the use of commercial
code/libraries in a L/GPL'ed work can be construed to L/GPL that proprietary
code.

How I do jobs for my customers is that I develop my programs and libraries I
want to protect via copyright and then distribute them with a set of scripts
and makefiles that during install build the end product. So the end user can
enjoy the privileges of the L/GPL'ed code (ie can fix bugs and relink the
libraries to their hearts content) and I protect my work. The catch is to
make sure the makefiles and scripts are L/GPL'ed. You could even include gcc
or egc on the distribution medium and use it to compile the resultant
without worrying about your commercial code being subsumed. It is quite
commen today for commercial houses to use gcc/egc to develop and distribute
fully commercial code, the catch is that none of the end resultant code can
come from L/GPL'ed sources.

This harks back to my comment earlier today about the GNU/cash system being
a perfect medium for the implimentation of crypto/e$ protocols. The catch is
that you have to be willing to give up your claims to the stubs that must be
placed in the L/GPL'ed product. If you can get away with using named pipes
as buffers and T's then it becomes reasonably trivial to create a situation
where one can inject non-L/GPL'ed code into the stream without the
functional code so injected falling under the L/GPL.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 22:14:17 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: [salman rushdie]
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980928201440.00b74d00@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On 9/27/98, A Cypherpunk Who Wishes Not To Have His Name Used Here wrote to me:

> In article <3.0.5.32.19980926215457.00ad1510@idiom.com> Bill Stewart wrote:
> > If there's cypherpunks relevance to this, it's that cryptographic
> > privacy and digital cash payments make it easier to publish
> > controversial material without the threat of violence against you.
>
> On the other hand, privacy and digital cash payments make it 
> easier to hire and reward hit men.
>
> You may not like it, but there's no sense in pretending it isn't so.

True enough, though in Rushdie's case, the social environment
provided enough protection that the murder could be called for,
the reward could be offered, and several of Rushdie's associates
could be murdered without any resort to crypto.

At least if you want to publish something that you _know_ will
annoy people enough that they want to kill you, you can do it
more safely if you've got a range of options for anonymity.

~~~~~~~~~~~

				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 20:44:10 +0800
To: users@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (SSZ User Mail List)
Subject: Copyright may limit Internet (w/o encryption) [CNN]
Message-ID: <199809290147.UAA04187@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> X-within-URL: http://www.cnn.com/TECH/computing/9809/28/copyright.fight.ap/

>    WASHINGTON (AP) -- When Lois Gibbs learned in 1978 that 20,000 tons of
>    toxic chemicals were buried under her Niagara Falls, N.Y.,
>    neighborhood, she tried to make sense of all the information and
>    scientific names suddenly thrown at her.
>    
>    She turned to her local library, wading through medical journals and
>    old newspaper articles to understand the chemicals and the diseases
>    they caused. Gibbs credits this immediate access to information with
>    helping her organize parents in Love Canal and spread the word about
>    toxic dumps.
>    
>    Now, thanks to the Internet, there's more information than ever
>    before. But educators and librarians fear that average citizens won't
>    be able to get at it because of proposed changes in copyright laws.
>    
>    Congress is trying to balance protecting the work of authors,
>    songwriters and others with making important information available to
>    students and other researchers.
>    
>    The House and Senate could agree this week on legislation that would
>    implement two copyright treaties adopted in 1996 by the U.N. World
>    Intellectual Property Organization.
>    
>    Current "fair use" laws allow personal use of copyrighted material
>    without obtaining advance permission. Students can quote from books in
>    their research papers and cable systems can relay television programs,
>    for example. The new version could lead to the encryption of some
>    material, keeping it out of the hands of anyone without a password or
>    other authorization.
>    
>    Hollywood and publishing industry officials say they are not trying to
>    keep information from the general public. But they want to protect the
>    work of their artists and writers from being downloaded and mass
>    distributed with a few keystrokes.
>    
>    "Everyone hopes that the Internet will become a great resource for
>    education, entertainment and commerce," said Allan Adler, vice
>    president for legal and governmental affairs at the Association of
>    American Publishers. "But one of the problems is that the medium
>    represents an extraordinary capability for flawless reproduction and
>    instantaneous distribution."

[text deleted]


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "James A. Donald" 
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 23:33:01 +0800
To: Petro 
Message-ID: <199809290428.VAA27584@proxy3.ba.best.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



    --
At 04:06 PM 9/28/98 -0500, Petro wrote:
> The problem isn't issueing the tokens, it's the wallets.
> Token generation would be relatively straight forward, it's
> the user end.

On the contrary, it is the server end that is hard.

Token generation is trivial.  Paying for tokens and getting
paid for them is not trivial.

The problem is that we do not want to force everyone in the
universe to be the clients of a single giant issuer.  That
would bring us right back to the old problem of the
tyrannical and oppressive central bank.

Visualize the following situation.  I buy tokens from Bob,
who may be my local ISP.   I spend them on a server on a site
in Sri Lanka.  The owner of the server cashes them with
Evonne.  My money, aggregated with a multitude of other
peoples money in a multitude of other peoples transactions
flows by some complex and indirect route to through several
different people, and eventually to Evonne, and finally to
the owner of the server in Sri Lanka.

This is the problem that IBM software, for all its faults,
does address, and it is a hard problem. 

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     RP+4+If1PSzkOerZiquLbdw7GFRzWkLNjIpl59ZX
     4XzwciXVO1P+jKBeMQjD7fwhYVJqnuMtiNYJ/PnL2
-----------------------------------------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because 
of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this 
right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.


http://www.jim.com/jamesd/      James A. Donald




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 23:09:09 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Toto -- mimic function or the real thing (Re: no subject)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 5:09 PM -0700 9/28/98, Adam Back wrote:
>Ulf Moeller writes:
>> Toto? writes:
>> >  Blanc and Carroll watched in total amazement as
>> >Jim Choate's ludicrous/inane computer and business theories
>> >seemed to be somehow transformed, by unseen hands working
>> >behind the scenes, into fully functional and viable
>> >RealWorld(TM) concepts, in Choate's work with the Armadillo
>> >Group.
>>
>> Huh? Is Toto back?
>
>Dunno, but that sure looks like authentic Toto doesn't it (and the
>rest of the long post of which excerpt quoted above).  Either someone
>has a very high quality mimic function for his writing style, or is
>rather good at imitating his writing style manually, or Toto is still
>around, and Toto isn't Carl Johnson.

Crap. I detected this as ersatz Toto after a couple of paragraphs.
Metaphors were too strained, or something. It just seemed fake.


Won't change the outcome of his incarceration, esp. now that he's in the
psychiatric "System." If he wasn't crazy before, he soon will be.


--Tim May


(This space left blank pending determ. of acceptability to the gov't.)
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 21:09:22 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: NSA on TDC....
Message-ID: <199809290212.VAA04368@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Hi,

There is a show on TDC right now (21:09 Ctl.) on the NSA. Has some
interesting shots of their CRITIC center as well as a brief discussion of
their computing resources.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "James A. Donald" 
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 23:29:02 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: <199809290428.VAA27705@proxy3.ba.best.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Eric Murray 
> > But it's ok for the merchant to offer 'discounts' for 
> > buyers who use cash instead of credit cards.  That
> > 'discount' is the real price of the goods with the
> > credit-card surcharge subtracted.  Often that's 3-4%,
> > sometimes as low as 1.2%.

At 10:06 PM 9/28/98 -0500, Jim Choate wrote:
> I haven't seen that in 10 years or more. I doubt that
> anyone will find this approach very widely.

I find this invariably happens with buying computers or guns
from cheap sources.  If you have never encountered this, you
are paying too much for your computers and your guns. 

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     rdf4ouUG+RnLXI0ylstU8mnhwqMyFkqPh1X52jgG
     4gZZRTeCp1GmQaxeNcrXu1XphSsTCv8oSiu1+Emrb
-----------------------------------------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because 
of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this 
right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.


http://www.jim.com/jamesd/      James A. Donald




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 21:48:11 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: cypherpunk license: PLEASE STEAL ME (Re: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction) (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809290250.VAA04605@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 03:22:27 +0100
> From: Adam Back 
> Subject: Re: cypherpunk license: PLEASE STEAL ME (Re: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction) (fwd)

> Yes, I know, I have read LGPL a few times, and it does include the
> sorts of exceptions you describe.  But I said GPL, and GPL is the
> license which I was suggesting causes problems.  As I said, LGPL is
> sort of useable.

GPL and LGPL both support fully this model of commercial use of L/GPL'ed
code.

> Right, this is the major sticking point for commercial people I find.

I find most commercial people lack imagination, though they make up for it
with a desire for money.

> Yes, but the more interesting, less restrictive case is where they
> really want to modify the code.  cf the example I gave of say adding
> pgp5 compatibility to pgp26ui.

There would be no significant problem if you include the necessary stubs and
make them L/GPL'ed. By both the L/GPL the use of 3rd party code (L/GPL'ed,
PD, or proprietary) hanging off those stubs would NOT be L/GPL'ed.

> I think that if you modify to any significant extent a GPL peice of
> software, and try to sell it you could run into problems.

There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in the L/GPL that prevents me from selling such
code at whatever price I can manage to charge for it, I could even change it
significantly. I, however, MUST include the source code or provide it for a
reasonable fee if requested by the end user. Your point is irrelevant.

Now if I try to sell it as (my) *copyrighted* code then I'm in for a world of
hurt and justifiably so. This, again, desire to take advantage of others
work is the hallmark of thieves and marketing droids (if there is a
difference between the two).

>  Your legal
> bill for trying to work out how bad it is will be expensive. 

Will be nil. The L/GPL themselves clearly state they don't override previous
copyrights of material that might be used with L/GPL'ed products. That L/GPL
subsumption ONLY applies to code that is built using L/GPL'ed source. In
other words for the L/GPL to be inovked on your code requires that you use
somebodies elses L/GPL'ed code in (NOT with) your code.

This is clearly understood by businesses that do use gcc/egc in that they
use no libraries, headers, etc. from L/GPL sources, develop them in-house or
buy them from 3rd parties. They only use the compiler/linker/tools to get
hooked together.

> If you want to be creative, you could do what you want to it ignoring
> the license, then provide a binary patch from their binary to your
> binary.  Or whatever.  Commercial lawyers are cautious animals though,
> so because you could theoretically hack around things does not mean
> that some company's lawyer is going to recommend that they do it.

The goal of the L/GPL is NOT to stop commercial programming, it is to return
to the end user a level of control and understanding (at least in principle)
so they may build a system to do what they want and not some marketing droid
at a multi-national.

This is NO hack, it is specificaly detailed in the L/GPL as a legitimate use
of such licensed code.

> That aspect of LGPL (availability of source) is useful to the extent
> that it encourages people to make source of the crypto parts
> available.

No, it suggests they should make the API definition available. As to it
being useful, it is critical to the long term stability of systems and the
continued development of imaginative software.

> Use of GNU development tools is a different, and more straight forward
> issue than using GNU licensed code.

Only if you don't understand the L/GPL.

> The point remains: the simplest and best thing to do about licenses if
> you are more concerned about crypto deployment than source
> availability is not to use GPL, and probably to avoid LGPL also.

No, the best thing to do is build your copyrighted libraries and release the
API's via headerfiles or whatever in the GPL'ed code.

> Use BSD, use PD, either is better than GPL for the purpose.

No, they're not because in PD you loose ALL control of your code and if
somebody else uses it in a commercial app or not then you're pretty much
screwed as they laugh their asses off on the way to the bank.

Considering the extend of BSD that would be the last choice of an OS that I
would bank my business on.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Lazlo Toth 
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 21:00:10 +0800
To: Adam Back 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On or about 11:49 PM +0100 9/28/98, Adam Back wrote:
>You want to buy ecash tokens with plastic.  Ideally you want to be
>able to buy ecash tokens with an ATM card because you don't want to
>incur any withdrawal fee (ATM withdrawals incur no transaction fee the
>UK, US may be different.)

In the case of my US bank it's the opposite:  ATM withdrawals, unless I use
a machine owned by my bank, cost me US$1.50.  Credit card fees on the other
hand are paid by the merchant, who is contractually bound NOT to pass them
on to me.

>Buying ecash tokens with a credit card is going to result in the cash
>advance minimum fee, plus unwanted (and typically double digit APR)
>interest on the "advance".
>
>Debit cards are a bit cheaper, but still incur some fee (unless a bank
>could be persuaded to waive it for this class of transaction).

My debit card functions as both ATM and credit card.  When given a choice I
will always prefer to use it as a credit card, which costs me nothing.

-Lazlo




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 22:04:34 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Cypherpunks defeat? (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809290306.WAA04772@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: Eric Murray 
> Subject: Re: Cypherpunks defeat?
> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 19:56:16 -0700 (PDT)

> using plastic.  But it's ok for the merchant to offer 'discounts' for
> buyers who use cash instead of credit cards.  That 'discount'
> is the real price of the goods with the credit-card surcharge
> subtracted.  Often that's 3-4%, sometimes as low as 1.2%.

I haven't seen that in 10 years or more. I doubt that anyone will find this
approach very widely.

> Visa and MasterCard don't have massive staffs and huge office
> buildings because they're dumb.

You don't know big corporations very well do you.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 23:33:31 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Cypherpunks defeat? (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809290436.XAA05069@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 21:13:36 -0700
> From: "James A. Donald" 
> Subject: Re: Cypherpunks defeat? (fwd)

> At 10:06 PM 9/28/98 -0500, Jim Choate wrote:
> > I haven't seen that in 10 years or more. I doubt that
> > anyone will find this approach very widely.
> 
> I find this invariably happens with buying computers or guns
> from cheap sources.  If you have never encountered this, you
> are paying too much for your computers and your guns.=20

What in the world do you mean 'cheap sources'?

I doubt I'm paying too much for my hardware.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 17:48:20 +0800
To: petro@playboy.com
Subject: Re: Cypherpunks defeat?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199809282249.XAA22561@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Christopher Petro writes on cypherpunks:
> 	That being the case, I'd say a penny is just right. Enough to make
> one think, but not too hard.

Make it 1/100 of a penny; then if someone wants to charge 1p they can
charge 100 of them, the other way is not as easy to arrange.

> >>But for the scheme to be successful, we need many token
> >>issuers
> >Is there existing open software available for this?
> 
> 	The problem isn't issueing the tokens, it's the wallets. Token
> generation would be relatively straight forward, it's the user end.

The biggest problem is buying ecash, instantly.  It has to be instant,
and accountless, because otherwise people are going to walk off in
disgust and try somewhere else.

You want to buy ecash tokens with plastic.  Ideally you want to be
able to buy ecash tokens with an ATM card because you don't want to
incur any withdrawal fee (ATM withdrawals incur no transaction fee the
UK, US may be different.)

Buying ecash tokens with a credit card is going to result in the cash
advance minimum fee, plus unwanted (and typically double digit APR)
interest on the "advance".

Debit cards are a bit cheaper, but still incur some fee (unless a bank
could be persuaded to waive it for this class of transaction).


Due to the instant, accountless requirement, you need to say implement
it as a signed java applet, which implements a protocol allowing you
to authenticate yourself to the ATM network with your PIN and card
number.

Problem: it's rather easy to hack, would take some fraction of a
second to try all 10,000 pin numbers, although if the check is online,
they could disable the card after 3 tries or so.

Still the problem persists: attacker obtains (or generates) valid (or
possibly valid) credit card numbers, uses up the 3 tries on each card
number, and moves onto the next number.  They will get a sucess every
3,333 card numbers on average.  (This attack is as a by-product going
to annoy a lot of people who have their cards disabled as a result.)

Artificial delays won't work because the attacker can parallelise via
multiple IP addresses on card numbers and PINs in randomised
sequences.

So because of the inherent naffness of ATM security, you are stuffed.

David Birch suggested that the European smart card based credit/debit
cards (EMV cards) would be better because they are more secure.
However this has the start up cost of a smart-card reader, and
violates the requirement for instant, accountless (and especially
hardwareless) use.

Ideas for beefing up ATM PIN based security using existing hardware
(deployed Cards and PINs), to get it to an acceptable level of
security with a low enough user interaction overhead.

Adam




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 23:53:33 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Cypherpunks defeat? (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809290455.XAA05296@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 21:05:34 -0700
> From: "James A. Donald" 
> Subject: Re: Cypherpunks defeat?

> On the contrary, it is the server end that is hard.

> The problem is that we do not want to force everyone in the
> universe to be the clients of a single giant issuer.  That
> would bring us right back to the old problem of the
> tyrannical and oppressive central bank.

This would argue that what is needed is a distributed server-less protocol.
A peer-to-peer mechanism with a local arbitration mechanism.

> Visualize the following situation.  I buy tokens from Bob,
> who may be my local ISP.   I spend them on a server on a site
> in Sri Lanka.  The owner of the server cashes them with
> Evonne.  My money, aggregated with a multitude of other
> peoples money in a multitude of other peoples transactions
> flows by some complex and indirect route to through several
> different people, and eventually to Evonne, and finally to
> the owner of the server in Sri Lanka.

Whatever that protocol is, it should take care of currency conversion
transparently. Perhaps the wrong approach has been taken from the get go. As
I understand the various approaches every one of the has worried about how
to get the users money transfered into digital tokens. What if we approach
it from the other end and ask:

How can one design a system which focuses on how a users token cache and
converting it to the appropriate currency as required can be realized 
Further, this mechanism should not rely on any centralized server or
arbitration mechanism while doing this specie conversion.

One potential mechanism (admittedly very roughly described) would be to let
each participant in a transaction to agree on the worth of those tokens and
not worry if Bob gets the same bank per token from Sam that he gets from
Sue. So how many tokens Bob gets from Sam each time Sam buys one of Bob's
used CD's wouldn't necessarily be the same number of tokens from Sue, even
though Bob charges the same amount to both Sam and Sue.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 02:33:02 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com>
Subject: Re: Virus for UNIX
In-Reply-To: <19980926171206.958.rocketmail@send103.yahoomail.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980929001031.00bc0660@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>> On Han Solo  is alleged to have written:
>> >Hello!!!
>> >Somebody can tell me about a site where I can find virus for UNIX
>> >systems.
>> >
>> >I need them please!!!!!!!!!

Go see the paper by Tom Duff and Doug McIlroy.

				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 02:42:40 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: FWD: California Anti-Spam Legislation Signed
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980929002627.00bc0ce0@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Forwarded from two CYBERIA-L articles:
--------------------------------------
According to a CNET article, yesterday Gov. Wilson signed into law two
pieces of legislation regulating spam.  The first bill requires (1) special
labels on the e-mail, (2) either a real e-mail address or an 800 number
permitting the recipient to be removed from the distribution list, and (3)
penalties if violated.  The second bill (1) permits ISPs to sue spammers
for damages to their systems and (2) outlaws "spoofing."  (I haven't read
the text of the statutes, so my description is a summary of what the
article says.)

Article is at:

http://www.news.com/News/Item/0%2C4%2C26859%2C00.html?dd.ne.tx.ts1.0928

"Both bills go into effect January 1. [The second] provision applies to
email providers that have equipment located in the state. [The first]
provision affects spammers who are located in the state or those who send
unsolicited bulk email to computer users who reside in California."

-------------------------------------

The text of the bill follows the URL which does a better job with the strike outs
than the plain text appended below.

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/bill/asm/ab_1651-1700/ab_1676_bill_980820_amended_sen.html

Sorry the email width would not handle the URL on one line but ascii text
follows:

BILL NUMBER: AB 1676    AMENDED
        BILL TEXT

        AMENDED IN SENATE   AUGUST 20, 1998
        AMENDED IN SENATE   JUNE 30, 1998
        AMENDED IN ASSEMBLY   APRIL 28, 1998
        AMENDED IN ASSEMBLY   MARCH 26, 1998
        AMENDED IN ASSEMBLY   MARCH 12, 1998

INTRODUCED BY   Assembly Member Bowen
   (Coauthors:  Assembly Members Brown, Campbell, Kuehl, Leach,
Martinez, and Mazzoni)
   (Coauthors:  Senators Dills, Karnette, O'Connell, Solis,
Vasconcellos, and Watson)

                        JANUARY 14, 1998

   An act to amend Section 17538.4 of the Business and Professions
Code, relating to advertising.


        LEGISLATIVE COUNSEL'S DIGEST


   AB 1676, as amended, Bowen.  Advertising:  electronic mail.
   Existing law prohibits a person conducting business in this state
from faxing unsolicited advertising material, unless certain
conditions are satisfied.
   This bill would expand that prohibition to include the
transmission of unsolicited advertising by electronic mail (e-mail),
and would make several related changes.
   This bill would become inoperative if federal law on this subject
is enacted.
   Existing law provides for the regulation of advertising and
provides that a violation of those provisions is a crime.  This bill,
by creating additional prohibitions with regard to advertising,
would expand the scope of an existing crime, thereby imposing a
state-mandated local program.
  The California Constitution requires the state to reimburse local
agencies and school districts for certain costs mandated by the
state. Statutory provisions establish procedures for making that
reimbursement.
   This bill would provide that no reimbursement is required by this
act for a specified reason.
   Vote:  majority.  Appropriation:  no.  Fiscal committee:  yes.
State-mandated local program:  yes.


THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA DO ENACT AS FOLLOWS:


  SECTION 1.  Section 17538.4 of the Business and Professions Code is
amended to read:
   17538.4.  (a) No person or entity conducting business in this
state shall facsimile (fax) or cause to be faxed, or electronically
mail (e-mail) or cause to be e-mailed, documents consisting of
unsolicited advertising material for the lease, sale, rental, gift
offer, or other disposition of any realty, goods, services, or
extension of credit unless:
   (1) In the case of a fax, that person or entity establishes a
toll-free telephone number that a recipient of the unsolicited faxed
documents may call to notify the sender not to fax the recipient any
further unsolicited documents.
   (2) In the case of e-mail, that person or entity establishes a
toll-free telephone number or valid sender operated return e-mail
address that the recipient of the unsolicited documents may call or
e-mail to notify the sender not to e-mail any further unsolicited
documents.
   (b) All unsolicited faxed or e-mailed documents subject to this
section shall include a statement informing the recipient of the
toll-free telephone number that the recipient may call, or a valid
return address to which the recipient may write or e-mail, as the
case may be, notifying the sender not to fax or e-mail the recipient
any further unsolicited documents to the fax number, or numbers, or
e-mail address, or addresses, specified by the recipient.
   In the case of faxed material, the statement shall be in at least
nine-point type.  In the case of e-mail, the statement shall be the
first text in the body of the message and shall be of the same size
as the majority of the text of the message.
   (c) Upon notification by a recipient of his or her request not to
receive any further unsolicited faxed or e-mailed documents, no
person or entity conducting business in this state shall fax or cause
to be faxed or e-mail or cause to be e-mailed any unsolicited
documents to that recipient.
   (d) In the case of e-mail, this section shall apply when the
unsolicited e-mailed documents are delivered to a California resident
via an electronic mail service provider's service or equipment
located in this state.  For these purposes "electronic mail service
provider" means any business or organization qualified to do business
in this state that provides individuals, corporations, or other
entities the ability to send or receive electronic mail through
equipment located in this state and that is an intermediary in
sending or receiving electronic mail.
   (e) As used in this section, "unsolicited e-mailed documents"
means any e-mailed document or documents consisting of advertising
material for the lease, sale, rental, gift offer, or other
disposition of any realty, goods, services, or extension of credit
that meet both of the following requirements:
   (A)
   (1)  The documents are addressed to a recipient with whom the
initiator does not have an existing business or personal
relationship.
   (B)
   (2)  The documents are not sent at the request of, or with
the express consent of, the recipient.
   (f) As used in this section, "fax" or "cause to be faxed" or
"e-mail" or "cause to be e-mailed" does not include or refer to the
transmission of any documents by a telecommunications utility or
Internet service provider to the extent that the telecommunications
utility or Internet service provider merely carries that transmission
over its network.
   (g) In the case of e-mail that consists of unsolicited advertising
material for the lease, sale, rental, gift offer, or other
disposition of any realty, goods, services, or extension of credit,
the subject line of each and every message shall include "ADV:" as
the first four characters.  If these messages contain information
that consists of unsolicited advertising material for the lease,
sale, rental, gift offer, or other disposition of any realty, goods,
services, or extension of credit, that may only be viewed, purchased,
rented, leased, or held in possession by an individual 18 years of
age and older, the subject line of each and every message shall
include "ADV:ADLT" as the first eight characters.
   (h) An employer who is the registered owner of more than one
e-mail address may notify the person or entity conducting business in
this state e-mailing or causing to be e-mailed, documents consisting
of unsolicited advertising material for the lease, sale, rental,
gift offer, or other disposition of any realty, goods, services, or
extension of credit of the desire to cease e-mailing on behalf of all
of the employees who may use employer-provided and
employer-controlled e-mail addresses.
   (i) This section, or any part of this section, shall become
inoperative on and after the date that federal law is enacted that
prohibits or otherwise regulates the transmission of unsolicited
advertising by electronic mail (e-mail).
  SEC. 2.  No reimbursement is required by this act pursuant to
Section 6 of Article XIIIB of the California Constitution because the
only costs that may be incurred by a local agency or school district
will be incurred because this act creates a new crime or infraction,
eliminates a crime or infraction, or changes the penalty for a crime
or infraction, within the meaning of Section 17556 of the Government
Code, or changes the definition of a crime within the meaning of
Section 6 of Article XIIIB of the California Constitution.
   Notwithstanding Section 17580 of the Government Code, unless
otherwise specified, the provisions of this act shall become
operative on the same date that the act takes effect pursuant to the
California Constitution.


-------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 18:44:23 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Why GNU GPL is bad for crypto deployment
Message-ID: <199809282336.AAA23094@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Someone asked me in email why I said on coderpunks & cypherpunks:

> > If one is interested to encourage people to include crypto in their
> > applications, GNU style licenses are a step in the wrong direction.

And as I wrote a longish explanation, I thought I'd share it:

Here is problem: say that our goal is to maximise deployment of
software with crypto built in, especially commercial software.

So people write libraries, and software say like Eric Young's SSLeay,
or Werner Koch's GNUGP (OpenPGP implementation).

Some of these people then use GNU license because that is the friendly
net ethos of the way to do it.  (And in general I agree, but there is
a conflict here...)

So now the license on the libraries or software that they've written
(specifically to encourage commercial companies to add crypto) are
evaluated by the prospective companies lawyers.

The lawyer observes that, GNU license says:

1) thou shalt adopt the GNU license for your whole source tree, if
there is one line of GNU derived code in it.

(or words to effect).

And he goes ... hmmm ... so what else does GNU license say if we put
our source under GNU license.

It also says:

2) source shall be available for shipping and handling fee only

(or words to effect)

and he grumbles, and maybe causes the project to be scrapped, if the
company has ideas on keeping source code secret (though we all know
this is not a good idea especially for crypto code, such companies
exist, these the parameters we are mostly working within).

so if the project is still ok by the lawyer, he examines the license
some more, and it says:

3) it shall be allowed for anyone to take and re-distribute any GNU
software charging what they like.

(or words to effect)

And he goes (floating point exception... core dumped!)  Because it
means that his companies software can be legally copied and re-sold
with no financial benefit to his company.

Which is why companies won't touch GNU license stuff with a barge
pole.

Note that there are two licenses promoted by FSF: the GPL (GNU General
Public License) and the GNU LGPL (GNU Library General Public License).

The GNU LGPL is as I commented in an earlier post just about usable
for commercial purposes, because it does not infect the source tree
using the code with the LGPL (or GPL) because it allows specifically
for providing only the code for the library and not the rest of the
code, and does not demand that the rest of the code use the same
license.

However Werner is using GPL for G10 aka GNUPG (at least as of
g10-0.0.0 which is the version I have).

So the plea is, if you are going to use GNU, at least use GLPL and NOT
GPL.

Well, it's your code, and you wrote it, so it's your choice: my
comments are based on the assumption that the author is more
interested in crypto deployment than in the GNU license virus as a
means of promoting the availability of source code.

Adam




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Stutz 
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 23:51:40 +0800
To: Adam Back 
Subject: Re: Why GNU GPL is bad for crypto deployment
In-Reply-To: <199809282336.AAA23094@server.eternity.org>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Tue, 29 Sep 1998, Adam Back wrote:

> Here is problem: say that our goal is to maximise deployment of
> software with crypto built in, especially commercial software.

I think your argument is only valid if you replace "commercial" with
"proprietary" and replace "especially" with "only in the case of."


> Well, it's your code, and you wrote it, so it's your choice: my
> comments are based on the assumption that the author is more
> interested in crypto deployment than in the GNU license virus as a
> means of promoting the availability of source code.

Free software is not about simply providing the source code as a
programmer's convenience, but it ensures that each user has freedom. And
free sofware always leads to the development of _more_ free software (case
in point: GNU C++, which was built off gcc and developed by a consortium
that usually releases non-free software. I expect the same kind of synergies
to occur with GPG and other crypto-related free projects).

If your goal is to maximize the amount of *non-free* software that contains
built-in crypto, then the GNU GPL is not the license to use, because it does
not pander to corporations and other large organizations who benefit by
restricting information to individuals.

If you release your crypto code as public domain, those companies who sell
binaries of non-free, proprietary software will eagerly use your code in
their products. But they (or the govt, or anyone else) are not obligated to
release the source of any improvements or modifications made to your code.

You might think, "This trade-off is okay, since my original code is still
available. But I want the best of both words -- I want GNU people to use my
code, but I also want Microfoo to adapt it, too."

The prospect of Microfoo possibly using your code might tempt you -- this
might get your code in more places right now, but it will not benefit to the
free software community (depending on your license terms, the code may well
be unuseable, or only useable until a replacement is written), and the users
of Microfoo's verion will be deprived of their freedoms to distribute or
adapt your code. So it might not help your long-term goal of maximum crypto
deployment.

Furthermore, if the code were to be released under a "cypherpunks license"
as described -- which added additional restrictions to the use of the code
-- it would not be useable at all on free operating systems. (This is why
PGP had to be rewritten from scratch.)

I would suggest that the GNU GPL, which protects the freedom of all
individuals who use the software, and ensures that the information always
remains free, may be as "cypherpunk" as a software license can get, if the
idea is to keep the information free.

If you want to publish code that individuals are be free to run, copy,
distribute, study, adapt and improve, write free software that can be used
on free operating systems. If you work on and improve this free software,
the body of free software will increase and the currently-in-use non-free
software will head closer to 100% obsolescence. By writing free code, you
will catalyze this process and ensure that free systems contain your code.
You might not have your crypto code on as many systems tomorrow as you would
have if you had been tempted by the thought of proprietary use of your code,
but for the long term, it seems that the best way to ensure that strong
crypto be available everywhere for all individuals is to make that crypto
code free, without exception -- and the best way to do that is to copyleft
it.

For a list of current FSF crypto-related projects, please see
.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 18:44:08 +0800
To: ravage@einstein.ssz.com
Subject: Re: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction
In-Reply-To: <199809282229.RAA03186@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <199809282345.AAA23109@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Jim Choate writes:
> It has been asserted that the use of GNU code within a project causes that
> product to be GPL'ed and as a result the GPL is not commercialy viable.
> 
> This is an incorrect interpretation.
> 
> The GPL does say that if you use GPL'ed code in your project then the
> project is GPL'ed, it does NOT say that if you make function calls into a
> GPL'ed library that the product is GPL'ed. 

There are two distinct licenses promoted by the FSF.  They are the GNU
GPL (General Public License) and the GNU LGPL (Library General Public
License).

As you suggest the LGPL is usuable.

However Werner Koch's GNUPG (OpenPGP implementation) uses GPL (not
LGPL) -- or at least it did in version 10-0.0.0, which is the source
tree I have here.

So the comment was on Werner's license, and use of GPL in general for
crypto code, which started this discussion when he offered that it
contained a GPLed Twofish implementation, when Bruce Schneier asked if
anyone had Public Domain implementations in various languages.  (Not
matching Bruce's PD requirement, note).

> This distinction makes fully commercial and source-secure products
> within the GPL infrastructure possible and feasible.

I did make this distinction in my 2nd post on this topic:

: (There is a difference between GNU and GNU Library.  GNU library allows
: you to use a library without infecting your entire software.  GNU
: library is sort of usable.)

Yes.  My point is to highlight for those writing crypto code with the
aim of crypto deployment NOT to use GPL, but preferably (in my view)
PD, BSD, or lastly LGPL.

I went on to suggest half-seriously a "cypherpunk license" which
restricted use of the code to code without government back doors.

Adam




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 19:08:38 +0800
To: ulf@fitug.de
Subject: Toto -- mimic function or the real thing (Re: no subject)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199809290009.BAA23670@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Ulf Moeller writes:
> Toto? writes:
> >  Blanc and Carroll watched in total amazement as
> >Jim Choate's ludicrous/inane computer and business theories
> >seemed to be somehow transformed, by unseen hands working
> >behind the scenes, into fully functional and viable
> >RealWorld(TM) concepts, in Choate's work with the Armadillo
> >Group.
> 
> Huh? Is Toto back?

Dunno, but that sure looks like authentic Toto doesn't it (and the
rest of the long post of which excerpt quoted above).  Either someone
has a very high quality mimic function for his writing style, or is
rather good at imitating his writing style manually, or Toto is still
around, and Toto isn't Carl Johnson.

Who knows, if it is Toto, he has been rather careful not to sign
anything recently :-).

(If he were to sign things it might be helpful for Carl
Johnson... Toto?)

Adam
-- 
print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<>
)]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 11:35:13 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Virus for UNIX
In-Reply-To: <19980926171206.958.rocketmail@send103.yahoomail.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Han Solo  wrote:
>Hello!!!
>
>Somebody can tell me about a site where I can find virus for UNIX
>systems.
>
>I need them please!!!!!!!!!

Short answer: see long answer

Long answer: this isn't the list to discuss those.  Anyway, what could
you possibly want with a unix virus?  YOU ARE running windows, right? 

----
Message from: "SPAM-ME-NOT" 
Mailer: "Telnet  110 || Telnet  25" - THE REAL WAY!
Quote: lu ml! blf'er qrplqrq gurh grcg!


___________________________________________________________________




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 21:20:50 +0800
To: ravage@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: Re: cypherpunk license: PLEASE STEAL ME (Re: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction) (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199809290114.UAA04026@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <199809290222.DAA24938@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Jim Choate writes:
> > OK, but it would seem to me that to interpret GPL in this way is in
> > violation of the spirit (and probably legal intent if interpreted by a
> > lawyer).
> 
> Actualy this situation is specificaly addressed in the LGPL in regards
> header files and how they are the gray area in all this and probably
> indefensible in a court (it says this in the LGPL go look...www.gnu.org).

Yes, I know, I have read LGPL a few times, and it does include the
sorts of exceptions you describe.  But I said GPL, and GPL is the
license which I was suggesting causes problems.  As I said, LGPL is
sort of useable.

> Actualy you missed the obvious way to distribute commercial code and the
> (L)GPL will protect your propietary work....
> 
> In both licenses it is very specific in noting that a L/GPL'ed work that is
> subsumed in another causes that work to become L/GPL'ed by default. 

Right, this is the major sticking point for commercial people I find.

> It further notes that there is NO implication that the use of
> commercial code/libraries in a L/GPL'ed work can be construed to
> L/GPL that proprietary code.

Yes, but the more interesting, less restrictive case is where they
really want to modify the code.  cf the example I gave of say adding
pgp5 compatibility to pgp26ui.

I think that if you modify to any significant extent a GPL peice of
software, and try to sell it you could run into problems.  Your legal
bill for trying to work out how bad it is will be expensive.  If the
company is not that bothered about adding crypto, they are going to
see the implications in lawyer hours alone, and give up before they
start.

> How I do jobs for my customers is that I develop my programs and
> libraries I want to protect via copyright and then distribute them
> with a set of scripts and makefiles that during install build the
> end product.

If you want to be creative, you could do what you want to it ignoring
the license, then provide a binary patch from their binary to your
binary.  Or whatever.  Commercial lawyers are cautious animals though,
so because you could theoretically hack around things does not mean
that some company's lawyer is going to recommend that they do it.

Simpler, rather than hack around, and have the additional hurdle to
crypto deployment of many lawyer hours spent wrangling over
implications of GPL and hacks around it, is to discourage use of GPL
for crypto libraries, and software.

> So the end user can enjoy the privileges of the L/GPL'ed code (ie
> can fix bugs and relink the libraries to their hearts content) 

That aspect of LGPL (availability of source) is useful to the extent
that it encourages people to make source of the crypto parts
available.

> It is quite commen today for commercial houses to use gcc/egc to
> develop and distribute fully commercial code, the catch is that none
> of the end resultant code can come from L/GPL'ed sources.

Use of GNU development tools is a different, and more straight forward
issue than using GNU licensed code.

> [hack around GPL problems using pipes]

The point remains: the simplest and best thing to do about licenses if
you are more concerned about crypto deployment than source
availability is not to use GPL, and probably to avoid LGPL also.

Use BSD, use PD, either is better than GPL for the purpose.

Adam




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 00:05:08 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Remailers, PGP, and a Project Suggestion
Message-ID: <19980929051529.13737.qmail@hades.rpini.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>        So, what you are saying is that you want crypto to protect yourself
>from government intrusion, but are unwilling to actually WRITE the code for
>fear that the government will lock you up.

That's about right. I will write the code for myself. I will not release it
since I'm in the U.S. and it gives the thugs one more reason to come after
me. That job is better suited for somebody who is outside the U.S. or is
actually willing to sit through a long grand jury investigation, possible
indictment, trial, conviction, jail time, and life as a convicted felon.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 07:29:54 +0800
To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
Subject: Re: IP: The virtual president
In-Reply-To: <199809290021.RAA15032@netcom13.netcom.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I enjoy reading WorldNetDaily and all that, but it's a far cry from "the
mainstream media."

Sign me,

A reporter in the mainstream media

Time Inc.
Washington, DC


> 
> From: Jean Staffen 
> Subject: IP: The virtual president
> Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 22:22:11 -0500 (CDT)
> To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
> 
> This is the most INCREDIBLE article.  I never thought I'd read something
> like this in the mainstream media!!! -Jean
> 
> 
>                    The virtual president=20
>                  =20
> 
>                    By Missy Kelly=20
>                    Copyright 1998, WorldNetDaily.com=20
> 
>                    "You know, by the time you become the leader of a
>                    country, someone else makes all the decisions." -- Bill
>                    Clinton September 4, 1998=20
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 00:12:55 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Toto -- mimic function or the real thing (Re: no subject)
Message-ID: <199809290514.HAA24812@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Adam Back writes:

>Who knows, if it is Toto, he has been rather careful not to sign
>anything recently :-).
>
>(If he were to sign things it might be helpful for Carl
>Johnson... Toto?)

He could have been one of the guys sending the insults to the spammers
(which I applaud, mind you) and who got into that argument with Paul Meril,
but the wording isn't anywhere near what we've come to expect from Toto. The
two gay sex responses to one of the Six Degrees of Spam users sounds just
like something he might do.

If Toto has been here all along, I think this is one of the most clever
hoaxes which has hit the list in a long time.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Soren 
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 07:08:28 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Superterrorism
In-Reply-To: <199809282332.TAA26652@camel8.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3610CAF7.42A2CB6C@workmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Good analysis, but conventional and poor conclusions.  In the words of
Baba Re-bop,  "If
you want to get kids off drugs (or CBW) ... Simple, improve reality"

John Young wrote:

> The Fall issue of Foreign Policy has an article, "The Great
> Superterrorism Scare," which critiques the national "obsession"
> with the threat of terrorist use of weapons of mass destruction:
>
>    http://jya.com/superterror.htm  (36K)
>
> It examines the reasons for the obsession, who is promoting
> it, who benefits, and what problems it may cause by diverting
> attention and resources away from genuine threats of lesser
> magnitude from religious cults, loners, antitaxers, militias and
> those with raging paranoia against the government.
>
> It's worth noting that the author recommends arrests be
> allowed of suspicious domestic hostiles though there is no proof
> of criminal intent, and that the FBI and CIA be freed from
> limitations on surveilling and investigating US citizens.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 08:02:57 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809291302.IAA06395@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 08:14:50 -0400
> From: Adam Shostack 
> Subject: Re: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)

> On Mon, Sep 28, 1998 at 07:09:51PM -0500, Jim Choate wrote:
> | 
> | The problem with your interpretation is that in a sense you want your cake and
> | eat it too. In short you want to be able to use somebody elses code in your
> | product without their having a say in how their code is used or receiving a
> | cut of the profits. The GPL/LGPL is specificaly designed to prevent this.
> 
> 
> 	I'll suggest that in a security context, having ones cake and
> eating it too may not be such a bad thing.

Only if you're the author or publisher and your goal is to watch your bank
account grow to exclusion of all else, everybody else gets screwed.

>  If I can develop a
> commercial product with crypto code thats been made available to the
> community, then there is a lower chance the code will contain bogosity 
> in its security critical functions.
> 
> 	The GPL (not the LGPL) specifically prevents this with the
> best of intentions.

Prevents what, releasing commercial code within a L/GPL'ed context? No, it
doesn't. What it does do is *guarantee* that the customer has some chance of
understanding what his code does (it's called code review and is highly
regarded in crypto algorithm analysis circles) and makes sure the original
L/GPL'ed holder has a stake in any commercial ventures the *source* code is
used in.

I'd say that's a win-win for everyone except those who want something for
nothing so they can buy a new expensive do-dad.

I'll say it again, neither the GPL or the LGPL prevent fully commercial
code development. *HOWEVER* to do that within the context *requires* that
the API to your commercial applications be released and available. This is a
good thing. The only objection to releasing an API is to stifle competition,
*THAT* is a bad thing.

The idea from a free-market perspective:

The idea is that while the actual source code is protectable the API is not
so that *fair* competition can be ensured. The whole free-market theory
must exist in a fairly competitive market. In the context of software that
means full and open API's so that alternate but compatible libraries can
exist and the consumer (not the manufacturer, the hallmark of a
competitively impoverished market) can decide which is the most reliable and
stable version.

Had Microsoft, for example, been required to publish their API's by the
market we wouldn't be spending all this effort and money on the current
proceedings. That would be a win-win for everyone (well except Bill who
probably wouldn't be worth a value equivalent to the holdings of 40+M US
citizens combined).

Anyone who objects to published API's is aware their code is trivial and not
worth it's price or their code is written poorly and easily improved upon.

Bottem line, if you believe in a free-market (which requires fair
competition to work and prevent monopolies) and object to releasing your
API's then you're a hypocrit.

Having your cake and eating it too *never* works, except in Wonderland.

There should be no objection to making oneself wealthy, but not at the
expense of others. Let the quality of your product define your reputation,
not your greed. Become the best supplier of niche code there is because the
code is well fast, failure tolerant, and reliable - not because you've
managed to squeeze all potential competitors out.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Shostack 
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 07:23:16 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199809290009.TAA03654@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <19980929081450.A3534@weathership.homeport.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Mon, Sep 28, 1998 at 07:09:51PM -0500, Jim Choate wrote:
| 
| The problem with your interpretation is that in a sense you want your cake and
| eat it too. In short you want to be able to use somebody elses code in your
| product without their having a say in how their code is used or receiving a
| cut of the profits. The GPL/LGPL is specificaly designed to prevent this.


	I'll suggest that in a security context, having ones cake and
eating it too may not be such a bad thing.  If I can develop a
commercial product with crypto code thats been made available to the
community, then there is a lower chance the code will contain bogosity 
in its security critical functions.

	The GPL (not the LGPL) specifically prevents this with the
best of intentions.

Adam

-- 
"It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once."
					               -Hume





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 09:29:29 +0800
To: ukcrypto@maillist.ox.ac.uk
Subject: complex mathematical formulae
Message-ID: <3610EC34.4939@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

I hope http://www.jya.com/itl-news.htm enjoys black and white.

"complex mathematical formulae"  aka  pseduomathematics

  Then, in late 1942, the Royal Navy switched codes to the one-time
  pad system. The Nazi tap was lost forever because the
  pad system is unbreakable in both theory as well as practice.
  U-boats could no longer ambush helpless ships like wolves on
  sheep. Convoy after convoy arrived safe and intact, protected in the  
  armor of an unbreakable code system. The U-boats had
  to change tactics. http://www.us.net/softwar/

  Germany used the enigma algorithm and machine.

  Japan used the purple algorithm.

  And look what happened to them!

I hope all of this helps Charles R Smith's business.
http://www.softwar.net/plight.html

Title: Black and White Test of Cryptographic Algorithms




	

	
		
			
				
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 08:20:05 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Army Plonks (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809291321.IAA06472@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 08:30:38 -0400
> From: John Young 
> Subject: Army Plonks

> Now that the terrified US Army has axed its Web sites, and 
> NSA and several other mil sites seem inaccessible and
> "temporarily unavailable" this morning, could this portend
> a dual-use of the Internet, a closed one for porkbarrell mil and
> secret gov sweethearts and a sappy infotainment one for civilians 
> to gameboy infofoolery?
> 
> That would be a tri-power-gov implementation of dual-use 
> terror-scare to hide perkbellied privileges of natsec obsession.

It's called milnet and it's been in existance ever since about '83. It
occured when ARPA became DARPA. I was working on a DoD project at UT Austin
at the time.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 07:43:44 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Army Plonks
Message-ID: <199809291237.IAA08647@camel7.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Now that the terrified US Army has axed its Web sites, and 
NSA and several other mil sites seem inaccessible and
"temporarily unavailable" this morning, could this portend
a dual-use of the Internet, a closed one for porkbarrell mil and
secret gov sweethearts and a sappy infotainment one for civilians 
to gameboy infofoolery?

That would be a tri-power-gov implementation of dual-use 
terror-scare to hide perkbellied privileges of natsec obsession.








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Thomas Roessler 
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 01:50:16 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Why GNU GPL is bad for crypto deployment
In-Reply-To: <199809282336.AAA23094@server.eternity.org>
Message-ID: <19980929083209.A18725@sobolev.rhein.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Tue, Sep 29, 1998 at 12:36:45AM +0100, Adam Back wrote:

> Which is why companies won't touch GNU license stuff with a barge
> pole.

[....]

> Well, it's your code, and you wrote it, so it's your choice: my
> comments are based on the assumption that the author is more
> interested in crypto deployment than in the GNU license virus as a
> means of promoting the availability of source code.

I have to partially object here:  If code is to be used
commercially, lawyers can ask the copyright holders for a different
license, and they may quite well succeed even if the original
distribution was under GPL.

tlr
-- 
Thomas Roessler · 74a353cc0b19 · dg1ktr · http://home.pages.de/~roessler/
     2048/CE6AC6C1 · 4E 04 F0 BC 72 FF 14 23 44 85 D1 A1 3B B0 73 C1




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 10:34:13 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Horde this Book: the first Y2K action novel
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 08:01:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: Declan McCullagh 
To: politech@vorlon.mit.edu
Subject: Horde this Book: the first Y2K action novel






http://cgi.pathfinder.com/netly/0,2326,201980929-14649,00.html

TIME Digital's Netly News
September 29, 1998

   Horde This Book
   By Declan McCullagh (declan@well.com)

   Book Review America's computers crashed on January 1, 2000. Cars won't
   start, planes won't fly, and the military is in shambles. Soldiers of
   unknown origin have seized control of a key high-tech company. China
   is about to invade. The one man who can save Western civilization from
   a Digital Dark Age is Y2K fixmeister Mark Solvang. Mark's problem?
   Well, it happens to be his company those troops took over. What comes
   next is a predictable romp through gun battles, hacking, and
   government intrigue that's sure to satisfy Chuck Norris fans but leave
   anyone else hoping for more.

   [...remainder snipped...]






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Albert P. Franco, II" 
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 02:11:01 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: New copyright law coming...
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980929090206.006a37c4@pop.ctv.es>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




More back room bullshit to screw with us:



This article talks about a new copyright law slithering through congress. 

They're back...




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 02:27:18 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Mailing-List
Message-ID: <199809290719.JAA01547@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Our mailing list is devoted to the intelligent people who are fighting fo
our freedom using crypto.  although you may fall into the category of
enjoying crypto you are obviously stupid and therefore not what this list is
aimed at.  An intelligent person would ot have sent a message to all the
people on the list asking a dumb question.  There are also a number of
hackers on our list and annoying them means flames galore (possibly)  My
advice is to get an aol account where you will be welcomed

At 03:16 AM 9/28/98 , you wrote:
>
>Please email me information about your mailing-list.
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 02:56:31 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Unix virus
Message-ID: <199809290750.JAA03612@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



aside from the fact that for a virus to correctly write to files on the unix
system you would need to have suffficiant read/write access,  you are
obviously too stupid to be able to accomplish this successfully.  One way to
ruin the system would be with a gun, that  is about the best that you will
be able to do considering your intellect.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Shostack 
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 09:34:02 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199809291302.IAA06395@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <19980929103338.A4370@weathership.homeport.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Tue, Sep 29, 1998 at 08:02:29AM -0500, Jim Choate wrote:
| Forwarded message:
| 
| > Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 08:14:50 -0400
| > From: Adam Shostack 
| > Subject: Re: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
| 
| > On Mon, Sep 28, 1998 at 07:09:51PM -0500, Jim Choate wrote:
| > | 
| > | The problem with your interpretation is that in a sense you want your cake and
| > | eat it too. In short you want to be able to use somebody elses code in your
| > | product without their having a say in how their code is used or receiving a
| > | cut of the profits. The GPL/LGPL is specificaly designed to prevent this.
| > 
| > 
| > 	I'll suggest that in a security context, having ones cake and
| > eating it too may not be such a bad thing.
| 
| Only if you're the author or publisher and your goal is to watch your bank
| account grow to exclusion of all else, everybody else gets screwed.

What did I say about not paying for people's work?  I'm perfectly
happy to pay for code, and I prefer to buy open source code; it tends
to be higher quality.  I don't want to have to accept your opinion on
how I should release code along with the code.

| >  If I can develop a
| > commercial product with crypto code thats been made available to the
| > community, then there is a lower chance the code will contain bogosity 
| > in its security critical functions.
| > 
| > 	The GPL (not the LGPL) specifically prevents this with the
| > best of intentions.
| 
| Prevents what, releasing commercial code within a L/GPL'ed context? No, it
| doesn't. What it does do is *guarantee* that the customer has some chance of
| understanding what his code does (it's called code review and is highly
| regarded in crypto algorithm analysis circles) and makes sure the original
| L/GPL'ed holder has a stake in any commercial ventures the *source* code is
| used in.

	You're being intentionally obtuse.  I excluded the L/GPL from
my comments, and you respond to them as if I was discussing the
L/GPL.	Further, I said above that using code thats been reveiwed is
better from a security perspective.

Adam


-- 
"It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once."
					               -Hume





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 10:29:46 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Meriweather v. Gates
Message-ID: <199809291521.LAA01780@panix7.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



   >   Reply-To: Tim May 
   >
   >   It's an ironic indication of where we are that Bill Gates is being hounded
   >   by the Justice Department, Sun Microsystems, Netscape, Novell, and Ralph
   >   Nader while no one is hounding John Meriwether. In fact, the Federal
   >   Reserve System, nominally nongovernmental (wink wink) just helped to bail
   >   out his firm, Long-Term Capital Management.
   >
   >   Gates, you see, has a non-leveraged investment of $50 billion in Microsoft.
   >   No borrowing, no margin debt, just plain old-fashioned ownership.

And a monopoly that doesn't need a bailout.

   >   Meriwether, on the other hand, started in 1991 and took in money from
   >   speculators. He took the $2.2 billion and borrowed with it, hitting the
   >   $125 B in borrowed assets point. Then he and his rocket scientists
   >   essentially borrowed still more, using this $125 B to leverage $1.25 T. (T
   >   for "trillion.")
   >
   >   Not  bad, going from $2.2 B to $1.25 T, a mere 500-fold increase.

Sheer unmitigated greed on the part of the banks, not knowing or
forcing Meriwether to tell them.

Over leveraging is what caused the Great Depression via the stock market collapse.
---guy

   Gosh, thank goodness they are loosening the bank/brokerage rules...not.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 07:05:12 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Remailers, PGP, and a Project Suggestion
In-Reply-To: <19980929051529.13737.qmail@hades.rpini.com>
Message-ID: <199809291039.LAA26488@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Anonymous writes:
> >        So, what you are saying is that you want crypto to protect yourself
> >from government intrusion, but are unwilling to actually WRITE the code for
> >fear that the government will lock you up.
> 
> That's about right. I will write the code for myself. I will not release it
> since I'm in the U.S. and it gives the thugs one more reason to come after
> me. That job is better suited for somebody who is outside the U.S. or is
> actually willing to sit through a long grand jury investigation, possible
> indictment, trial, conviction, jail time, and life as a convicted felon.

Ah come on, it isn't that bad.  Just put it on a crypto site with some
dumb revolving password scheme, or give it to someone else to put no
theirs.  It'll be on replay with-in a few hours, if anyone is
interested in the code.

Also you seem happy using remailers, so you could as easily publish
anonymously.

Don't let a few cold war hang-over export regs stifle your crypto
coding creativity!

Adam




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 12:22:02 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809291721.MAA07404@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 10:33:38 -0400
> From: Adam Shostack 
> Subject: Re: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)

> What did I say about not paying for people's work?  I'm perfectly
> happy to pay for code, and I prefer to buy open source code; it tends
> to be higher quality.  I don't want to have to accept your opinion on
> how I should release code along with the code.

Jesus Christ on a stick. Take a fucking chill pill Adam.

That 'you' is the literary you, not you personaly. You (not the literary
you) should seriously consider counseling. Talk about hair-triggered.

If anybody is guilty of demanding people do it 'their way' it's you.

You really need to better understand this inability of yours to seperate
your self-worth as an individual from the ideas you espouse and supposedly
put out for public dialog.

Everybody has stupid idea, if you can't admit that then there's a problem
more serious than having stupid ideas. Everybody makes mistakes everyday,
and if you seriously think you don't then you have found your first mistake
today.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 12:36:01 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Remailers, PGP, and a Project Suggestion
In-Reply-To: <19980929051529.13737.qmail@hades.rpini.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 12:15 AM -0500 9/29/98, Anonymous wrote:
>>        So, what you are saying is that you want crypto to protect yourself
>>from government intrusion, but are unwilling to actually WRITE the code for
>>fear that the government will lock you up.
>
>That's about right. I will write the code for myself. I will not release it
>since I'm in the U.S. and it gives the thugs one more reason to come after
>me. That job is better suited for somebody who is outside the U.S. or is
>actually willing to sit through a long grand jury investigation, possible
>indictment, trial, conviction, jail time, and life as a convicted felon.

	Cleanse it of your identity (or start a pseudonym if you need the
ego boost), and get it to hacktic. PD/BSDL/GPL the code, and go.

	Use the tools to "free" yourself.

	If the law is bad, ignore it whenever possible. This is a very
ignorable law.
--
petro@playboy.com----for work related issues. I don't speak for Playboy.
petro@bounty.org-----for everthing else.      They wouldn't like that.
                                              They REALLY
Economic speech IS political speech.          wouldn't like that.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 06:58:33 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Joe Farah 9/14 (Pppbbbttt)
Message-ID: <199809291142.NAA23043@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Everybody's belief/morals are different.  For instance I take that
last paragraph of yours and laugh at it.  To many americans doing so
would not be immoral because many people don't believe in god.  Your
moral yardstick would be different from mine.  People in the bible
belt have different morals from those in las vegas.  If I had religous
right morals I'd kill myself.


---Richard.Bragg@ssa.co.uk wrote:
>
> >>Almost 60 percent of those polled said they thought Clinton was
fit to be
> >>president. By what standard? That's the trouble. Americans have no
> >>standards -- no unchangeable yardsticks by which they measure
right and
> >>wrong, truth from fiction.
> 
> >By *their* standard, by their own personal judgement. There's no
moral
> >yardstick, and God help us if there is in the future. Who makes the
> >yardstick? Who sits down and says, "This is the moral standard in
this
> >country, abide by it or suffer the consequences"?
> 
> Sorry but there are absolutes and there is a moral yardstick. 
Whether this
>  is accepted or not is beside the point.
> 
> There has to be absolutes otherwise any action can be excused (or
damned).
>   The real cry should be
> "God help us to instigate Your yardstick".  God doesn't change and
neither
> does His measure.
> 
> 1)Love the Lord, with all your heart, with all you soul with all
your mind
> and all your strength
> 2)Love you neibour as yourself.
> 
> Everything else hangs on these.
> 
> 
> 

==
"The same thing we do every night Pinkey,
 try to take over the WORLD!"
                          - The brain
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 07:18:26 +0800
To: jaeger@hempseed.com
Subject: Re: Democracy...
Message-ID: <199809291205.OAA24670@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



The government can't make laws favoring one religion thereby
restricting another religion.  The urban legend that it was only meant
to stop government from restricting a religion was a misquote from
some misguided pastor.  Separation of church and state is just that,
that is what the country was founded on.  This is also a thread for
the lists and newsgroups that it was intended for.




---Jaeger  wrote:
>
> well, the first amendment is what I expected to be used...
> unfortunately, the phrase "...wall of separation between church and
> state" is not taken from the first amendment.  It is taken from a
letter
> written by Thomas Jefferson...  and the meaning is not that church
> shouldn't have an effect on the state.  The state CAN support one
> religion over another.  In context, the phrase simply explains that
the
> government can't make laws that RESTRICT religious practice or
doctrinal
> issues.  The state CAN make laws that encourage the practice of any
one
> particular religion, as long as the laws do not RESTRICT the
PRACTICE of
> other religions.  Making people uncomfortable isn't a constitutional
> reason to overturn a law.
> 
> btw, notice the wording in the first amendment...it only restricts
gov't
> restrictions on religion.
> 
> Jaeger
> 
> > Gee, check out the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. Also
the
> > first
> > item in the Bill of Rights. "Congress shall make no law respecting
the
> >
> > establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise
thereof..."
> >
> > (from memory, so don't bother me with minor wording corrections.)
> >
> > By standard convention, this is also referred to as "separation of
> > church
> > and state."
> >
> > As with the clueless AOLers yakking about an "Assimov" story they
read
> > a
> > couple of years ago in the 5th grade, you bozos need to get educated
> > and
> > spend a minute or two thinking before writing.
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 

==
"The same thing we do every night Pinkey,
 try to take over the WORLD!"
                          - The brain
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: sales@golive.com
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 16:51:36 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: GoLive CyberStudio 30-day Activation Key
Message-ID: <199809292142.OAA11348@company.golive.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Dear Fritzie,

Thank you for downloading the GoLive CyberStudio Tryout
software.

Your official 30-day activation key is: TRIA1MT23NFJD8MXGGJ85UDA

You'll need to enter this key when you first start-up the
software.

Included with the GoLive CyberStudio installation are the
latest Release Notes and New Product Features for GoLive
CyberStudio.

NOTE: If you are using Stuffit Expander 4.5.x to decode and
decompress PDF documents, please make sure the cross
platform preference and the option "Convert Text Files to
Macintosh Format" is set to "Never".

If you have questions about how to use the Tryout software,
GoLive's knowledgeable Technical Support staff is available
to assist you. We suggest you first check the Technical
Support section of our Web site www.golive.com. If you don't
find your answers there, please send us an email at
support@golive.com or call 1-800-554-6638. 

When you are ready to purchase GoLive CyberStudio or if you
want to know more about why GoLive CyberStudio is the best
product for Web site design, please return to our Web site
or contact me at 1-800-554-6638 or 1-650-463-1580.

Sincerely,

Dan Fernandez
Director US Sales
GoLive Systems
Sales@Golive.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: sales@golive.com
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 16:56:22 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: GoLive CyberStudio Personal Edition
Message-ID: <199809292147.OAA11434@company.golive.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Dear Fritzie,

Thank you for downloading the GoLive CyberStudio Tryout
software.

Your official 30-day activation key is: MWT4QWF7F8WP7GJJ

You'll need to enter this key when you first start-up the
software.

Included with the GoLive CyberStudio installation are the
latest Release Notes and New Product Features for GoLive
CyberStudio.

NOTE: If you are using Stuffit Expander 4.5.x to decode and
decompress PDF documents, please make sure the cross
platform preference and the option "Convert Text Files to
Macintosh Format" is set to "Never".

If you have questions about how to use the Tryout software,
GoLive's knowledgeable Technical Support staff is available
to assist you. We suggest you first check the Technical
Support section of our Web site www.golive.com. If you don't
find your answers there, please send us an email at
support@golive.com or call 1-800-554-6638. 

When you are ready to purchase GoLive CyberStudio or if you
want to know more about why GoLive CyberStudio is the best
product for Web site design, please return to our Web site
or contact me at 1-800-554-6638 or 1-650-463-1588.

Sincerely,

Dan Fernandez
Director US Sales
GoLive Systems
Sales@Golive.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: sales@golive.com
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 16:56:21 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: GoLive CyberStudio 30-day Activation Key
Message-ID: <199809292147.OAA11432@company.golive.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Dear Fritzie,

Thank you for downloading the GoLive CyberStudio Tryout
software.

Your official 30-day activation key is: TRIA1MT23NFJD8MXGGJ85UDA

You'll need to enter this key when you first start-up the
software.

Included with the GoLive CyberStudio installation are the
latest Release Notes and New Product Features for GoLive
CyberStudio.

NOTE: If you are using Stuffit Expander 4.5.x to decode and
decompress PDF documents, please make sure the cross
platform preference and the option "Convert Text Files to
Macintosh Format" is set to "Never".

If you have questions about how to use the Tryout software,
GoLive's knowledgeable Technical Support staff is available
to assist you. We suggest you first check the Technical
Support section of our Web site www.golive.com. If you don't
find your answers there, please send us an email at
support@golive.com or call 1-800-554-6638. 

When you are ready to purchase GoLive CyberStudio or if you
want to know more about why GoLive CyberStudio is the best
product for Web site design, please return to our Web site
or contact me at 1-800-554-6638 or 1-650-463-1580.

Sincerely,

Dan Fernandez
Director US Sales
GoLive Systems
Sales@Golive.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: sales@golive.com
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 17:01:10 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: GoLive CyberStudio 30-day Activation Key
Message-ID: <199809292151.OAA11490@company.golive.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Dear Fritzie,

Thank you for downloading the GoLive CyberStudio Tryout
software.

Your official 30-day activation key is: TRIA1MT23NFJD8MXGGJ85UDA

You'll need to enter this key when you first start-up the
software.

Included with the GoLive CyberStudio installation are the
latest Release Notes and New Product Features for GoLive
CyberStudio.

NOTE: If you are using Stuffit Expander 4.5.x to decode and
decompress PDF documents, please make sure the cross
platform preference and the option "Convert Text Files to
Macintosh Format" is set to "Never".

If you have questions about how to use the Tryout software,
GoLive's knowledgeable Technical Support staff is available
to assist you. We suggest you first check the Technical
Support section of our Web site www.golive.com. If you don't
find your answers there, please send us an email at
support@golive.com or call 1-800-554-6638. 

When you are ready to purchase GoLive CyberStudio or if you
want to know more about why GoLive CyberStudio is the best
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or contact me at 1-800-554-6638 or 1-650-463-1580.

Sincerely,

Dan Fernandez
Director US Sales
GoLive Systems
Sales@Golive.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Leif Ericksen 
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 15:29:44 +0800
To: cypherpunks 
Subject: Re:
In-Reply-To: <199809291849.UAA29124@replay.com>
Message-ID: <36113E11.34C257A1@imho.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Anonymous wrote:
> 
> At 08:21 AM 9/29/98 -0500, Jim Choate wrote:
> >
> >It's called milnet and it's been in existance ever since about '83. It

1983????  Are you 100% sure about that I am almost 100% sure that it was
alone longer than that.  I can not be quoted on it but I am sure that it
was in existence before that...  OH I beg your pardon, 1983 is what the 
government will really admit to even if there are documents that show it
may be older than that....


			HRMMM....

		:)
			- lhe
> >occured when ARPA became DARPA. I was working on a DoD project at UT Austin
> >at the time.
> 
> Look up SIPRNET
> 
>




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 14:45:59 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Army Plonks
In-Reply-To: <199809291848.UAA28989@replay.com>
Message-ID: <199809291936.PAA08772@camel7.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



These are quotes from a mil news group where this is being 
discussed.

"Thing is, many of the Army's sites offered a wealth of
information, unclassified, and readily available in hardcopy,
to anybody who wants it.

To ease distribution and save millions in costs of distributing
this material around the world, the Web cannot be beat,
as even Hamre's directive emphasized for contracting and 
purchasing defense goods and educating its personnel.

An West Point bozo fucked up royally by pissing an arc to show Hamre
the combat guys know how to blow shit away big time -- the turkey
was named in some news reports, a LtGen of Info Services -- and revelaed
his prejudice toward loathsome civvy control and wily-hackered the 
whole damn system, "stupid jerk, fucking asshole, eat shit, fuck you,"
as my sqawk box mocks.

Hamre will get hammered for overreacting, too, he's been whining
about cyber threats for months now, when it's clear he doesn't
know shit about such systems, like most of the wrinkled fucks running
the natsec operation. They won't listen to the youngsters under
their command, they just want to destroy something to prove their
hardware prowess, being unable to wave their shriveled dicks now
that they'll get cashiered for being inappropriately related to
underlings.

It will cost the military millions if not billions to return to a closed 
information system. And all those folks who were selling handy
off the shelf stuff for ballooning mil siles aint gonna keep quiet -- 
unless they get sweetheart deals for 10 times cost for secret shit that
aint worth shit to anybody except the lard asses always screaming
for more protection for the Amercian people."






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 15:36:14 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809292035.PAA08234@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 15:07:45 -0500
> From: Leif Ericksen 
> Subject: Re: 

> > At 08:21 AM 9/29/98 -0500, Jim Choate wrote:
> > >
> > >It's called milnet and it's been in existance ever since about '83. It
> 
> 1983????  Are you 100% sure about that I am almost 100% sure that it was
> alone longer than that.  I can not be quoted on it but I am sure that it
> was in existence before that...  OH I beg your pardon, 1983 is what the 
> government will really admit to even if there are documents that show it
> may be older than that....

Might have been 82, find out when ARPA became DARPA and *only* worked on
defense related material. The distinction was one of administration and
not physical changes to anything other than some nameservers and routers.

When the change happened it meant that ARPA could no longer participate
as an equal with the NFS so they split the funding and administrative
servers.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Jean-Francois Avon" 
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 17:29:46 +0800
To: "Sporting Shooters Association of Australia" 
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199809292223.SAA02381@cti06.citenet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Excerpt from the Canadian Firearms Digest, V2 #612

================ begin forwarded opinion ===============
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 13:40:01 -0600
From: someone@somewhere.net
Subject: RCMP now have .50 cal. BMG's

I have just learned from a highly reliable confidential source 
that in addition to the .50 cal  McMillian sniper rifles and 
the untalked about Barrett Light .50's, the RCMP  have now added 
to  their arsenal a number of .50 cal. Browning Machine Guns. 

Staff from the RCMP are headed to Belgium to be trained in 
the armoring of these military heavy  machine guns. Machine 
guns may at some point be used against the Canadian public, 
possibly to  quell a native disturbance or other civil unrest. 
If we were attacked by outside forces the military  would be 
the pressed into service, as this is not the role of the RCMP. 

This leads one to ask what use the RCMP, who are a police force 
not an army in occupation,  would have for such heavy armament 
...... or is it possible that I have it wrong, possibly they 
are  now an army in occupation. Is it possible that the RCMP 
are now the political policing arm of the  Government. 

The lethality of this weapon makes pepper spray look like a 
Sunday shower. Maybe this is the  next weapon demonstrators 
will be facing at the orders of the PM's office.
================ end forwarded opinion ================

Ciao all.






Definition:  FASCISM: n.:  a political and economic movement, strongly nationalistic, magnifying the rights of the state as opposed to those of the individual, in which industry, though remaining largely under private ownership, and all administrative
political units, are controlled by a strong central government.
        -------------------------------------------------
"One of the ordinary modes by which tyrants accomplish their purpose, without resistance, is by disarming the people and making it an offense to keep arms".  - Joseph Story, U.S. Supreme Court Justice.
        -------------------------------------------------
the German gun control laws were enacted by the "liberal" Weimar Republic government that preceded Hitler, and were a strong aid to his coming to power -- because they disarmed Hitler's opponents, and Hitler's adherents ignored them -- as criminals have always ignored gun control laws.

Disarming the public is a frequent first step toward dictatorships and genocides.  Once the disarming is complete, the public is helpless against those who have the guns.        -------------------------------------------------

PGP keys: http://bs.mit.edu:8001/pks-toplev.html
PGP ID:C58ADD0D:529645E8205A8A5E F87CC86FAEFEF891 
PGP ID:5B51964D:152ACCBCD4A481B0 254011193237822C


From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 20:43:19 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A19284704@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Jim Choate wrote:
> The only objection to releasing an API is to 
> stifle competition, *THAT* is a bad thing.

There are a number of other reasons -- principally support and backwards
compatibility costs. If you release an API for a commercial application
for ISVs, you better make sure it is relatively bug-free and mature. As
soon as someone else's code relies on that API, you are stuck with
making sure it continues to work as the product evolves.

There is nothing wrong with public and private APIs, and we hope that
the ad hoc private APIs from some midnight-oil-burning-hack to get the
product to ship on time that have useful functionality will eventually
be integrated into a mature public API.

Modular OOP design means you have lots of interfaces, you don't
necessarily want people to be able to dig in-between all the pieces of
your program -- often you cannot protect application/data integrity if
they do.

It's like custom software versus shrink-wrap. I write a lot of custom
software, it works for what it needs to do for a specific scenario, if
that changes I modify and recompile. There is a *lot* of work -- time,
money, *my* cost -- to take that custom application and make it flexible
and generic enough to be shrink-wrap and work in all scenarios. And if I
don't do it well enough I have a major support/liability problem. Same
applies to public vs private APIs.

> The idea from a free-market perspective:

> Had Microsoft, for example, been required to publish their 
> API's by the market we wouldn't be spending all this effort

You state free-market and then you are *requiring* someone to do
something? How do you resolve that contradiction? Require = Force !=
Free[dom]

As far as *commercial* software vendors go, Microsoft is one of the
better companies for publishing APIs and creating useful APIs and tools
for Rapid Application Development. Do you subscribe to MSDN? Please do
before you crucify Microsoft for lack of APIs, if anything they have too
many.

> Bottem line, if you believe in a free-market (which requires fair
> competition to work and prevent monopolies)

Pure speculative nonsense contrary to empirical evidence. Market
distortions the government creates are far worse than any Wonderland
monopoly you can dream up that will exist in a true free market.

	Matt




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Lazlo Toth 
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 18:01:03 +0800
To: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



"Someone else," aka "Flagship" == "The People"?

-Lazlo



At 5:21 PM -0700 9/28/98, you wrote:
>From: Jean Staffen 
>Subject: IP: The virtual president
>Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 22:22:11 -0500 (CDT)
>To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
>
>This is the most INCREDIBLE article.  I never thought I'd read something
>like this in the mainstream media!!! -Jean
>
>
>                   The virtual president=20
>                 =20
>
>                   By Missy Kelly=20
>                   Copyright 1998, WorldNetDaily.com=20
>
>                   "You know, by the time you become the leader of a
>                   country, someone else makes all the decisions." -- Bill
>                   Clinton September 4, 1998=20
[snip]




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 13:58:07 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199809291848.UAA28989@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 08:30 AM 9/29/98 -0400, John Young wrote:
>Now that the terrified US Army has axed its Web sites, and 
>NSA and several other mil sites seem inaccessible and
>"temporarily unavailable" this morning, could this portend
>a dual-use of the Internet, a closed one for porkbarrell mil and
>secret gov sweethearts and a sappy infotainment one for civilians 
>to gameboy infofoolery?

Well, for some months now they've password protected some of the more
delicate stuff (e.g., "lessons learned", some of the field manuals).  And
they have been rejecting non .mil addresses too.

Certainly we can expect them to eventually get a clue and 
think about what's out there.  Mostly they have.  (Of course it was within
the last year that a .mil was exporting PGP!) The army's over-reaction
is quaint but essentially reasonable --the W3 pages are just PR,
and they're real edgy these days after they tried to scalp Osama
with a tomohawk.

[digression: I wonder when Osama will have his own web page with matching
funds for the head of the Great Satan, and whether there would
be a shootout on the net, e.g., the DNS records being changed, a
phone call to their ISP]

As far as the NSA's online personnel records, I bet they're still worried
about the CIA shootout down the street a few years back.

There's still plenty of names, phones, email addresses in the 
.gov domain, with building locations, etc.  But Jim Bell is
locked up so they're not so uptight.


>That would be a tri-power-gov implementation of dual-use 
>terror-scare to hide perkbellied privileges of natsec obsession.

They keep trying different passwords to the constitution.
Its a dictionary attack: "pedophile", "droogs", "terrorist", "WMD", etc.

--Ceci n'est-ce pas un Toto










  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 13:58:40 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199809291849.UAA29124@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 08:21 AM 9/29/98 -0500, Jim Choate wrote:
>
>It's called milnet and it's been in existance ever since about '83. It
>occured when ARPA became DARPA. I was working on a DoD project at UT Austin
>at the time.


Look up SIPRNET








  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 23:07:00 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: [FP] National registry to track child support
Message-ID: <199809300407.VAA08285@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: "ScanThisNews" 
Subject: IP: [FP] National registry to track child support
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 06:59:33 -0500
To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com

======================================================================
SCAN THIS NEWS
09/28/98

---------------------------------------------------------------
Ya know, they could darn near track anyone with this thing...
---------------------------------------------------------------

09/28/98- Updated 12:15 AM ET
 The Nation's Homepage

National registry to track child support

WASHINGTON - Beginning Wednesday, every one of the 16 million parents
nationwide who are required to pay child support will be logged into a
massive database to help the federal government track down those who fail to
pay.

[Well that's nice, now they'll be in there with the rest of us sheeple.]

The registry will allow authorities to keep tabs on the more than 5 million
parents, most of them fathers, who have moved to another state after a
divorce, separation or breakup.

[Yea, and about 200 million of us who haven't.]

Many reneged or fell behind on support payments, says Michael Kharfen, a
spokesman for the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, which will
run the database.

"Before, it was very difficult for a state to track down where the parent
went, where he was working and how much money he was actually making,"
Kharfen says. "This database will track them, no matter where in the country
they move."

[Hey Keefer, there was a reason it was difficult - it was called liberty!]

Critics of the registry say it violates the privacy of law-abiding parents.
"Because someone gets a divorce doesn't mean their job, their income, should
become an open book," fathers' rights attorney D. Gerald Williams says.

[Wrong answer: critics are opposed to it because it violates fundamental
rights of the "non-delinquent" citizens by forcing them into the same
"locating and tracking" system.]

Kharfen counters that the system is critical to states, which collect only
about 22% of the $50 billion owed in child support every year. By federal
estimates, 60% of parents involved in child custody cases renege on their
payments.

[Keefer - get out of the social payments system altogether. Then, you won't
have this huge problem you've created -- "tracking delinquent parents."]

Officials estimate that the system will recoup $10 billion in delinquent
payments a year.

[Probably about 20% of what the system costs to operate, and about 5% of
what the "system" spends as a whole.]

To track down scofflaws, the government will compare its list of parents
with another new database that contains employment records for more than 140
million workers in the United States. That database, which was unveiled in
October 1997, lists an employee's identity, address and salary.

By cross-referencing lists, "we'll be able to tell the state that's looking
for him whether they should start going for his paycheck," Kharfen says.

[And it's about time for the citizenry to start going after some
Congressmen's paycheck Keefer, then, perhaps, yours to follow!]

By Scott Bowles, USA TODAY

[With comments by Scott McDonald - today]

http://search.usatoday.com/plweb-cgi/fastweb?getdoc+default+news+5734+0+wAAA
+registry

---------------------------------------------------------------
[thanks to J. Groom for the forward]
=======================================================================
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1) you can confirm it with another source, and/or
2) it is consistent with what you already know to be true.
=======================================================================
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 23:07:05 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Group 'No Privacy for Privacy Hypocrites' Surveys Congress
Message-ID: <199809300407.VAA08296@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Group 'No Privacy for Privacy Hypocrites' Surveys Congress
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 11:32:02 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  US Newswire
http://www.usnewswire.com/topnews/Current_Releases/0928-131.txt

Privacy Group Surveys Congress 
U.S. Newswire
28 Sep 18:17

 Group 'No Privacy for Privacy Hypocrites' Surveys Congress
 To: National Desk
 Contact: James Love, 202-387-3080

   WASHINGTON, Sept. 28 /U.S. Newswire/ -- No Privacy for Privacy
Hypocrites, a citizen's group formed to counteract the assault
on privacy by the Kenneth Starr/congressional investigations
into President Clinton's sex life, has distributed a survey
to Members of Congress regarding their views on privacy.

   Members of Congress who oppose privacy rights will be asked
whether or not they have ever participated in an adulterous
affair, and whether or not they have lied about it.

   The group is concerned that the Kenneth Starr/congressional
investigations into the president's sex life are having a negative
impact on privacy that will affect ordinary citizens.

   "This whole sad affair is the product of decades-long disrespect
for privacy, for which our political leaders are responsible," said
Evan Hendricks, Editor and Publisher of "Privacy Times," and one of
the organizers of the group.

   "This effort is intended to arrest the free fall of privacy rights
triggered by the stunning abuses of power by the Starr investigation
and the Congressional dissemination of personal information," said
James Love.

   Today, No Privacy for Privacy Hypocrites distributed a survey to
Members of Congress asking:

  1. (A) Is consensual, non-commercial sexual conduct by adults in
private ever a proper subject for government inquiry? (B) Do you
believe that any branch of government should investigate allegations
that elected officials may have participated in an adulterous affair,
including allegations that they may have lied about it?

  2. If you answered "yes" to (A) or (B) in question (1): (A) Have
you ever participated in an adulterous affair?  (B) If yes, have you
ever lied about it?

  3. Do you think that any public official who has committed adultery
and lied about it should resign from public office?

   Survey responses will be placed on the web at:
http://www.noprivacy.org, as soon the surveys are returned.

 -0-
 /U.S. Newswire  202-347-2770/
 09/28 18:17

Copyright 1998, U.S. Newswire
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 23:15:38 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Senate Passes Y2K Liability Limitation Bill
Message-ID: <199809300407.VAA08307@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Senate Passes Y2K Liability Limitation Bill
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 11:35:10 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  US Newswire
http://www.usnewswire.com/topnews/Current_Releases/0929-101.txt

Senate Passes Y2K Liability Limitation Bill 
U.S. Newswire
29 Sep 8:49

 Senate Passes Y2K Liability Limitation Bill
 To: National and State desks
 Contact: David Carle of the Office of Sen. Patrick Leahy,
          202-224-3693

   WASHINGTON, Sept. 29 /U.S. Newswire/ -- Following is the statement
of Sen. Patrick Leahy (D-Vt.), ranking member of the Senate Judiciary
Committee, on Senate passage Monday night, Sept. 28, 1998, of the
Hatch-Leahy-Kyl Substitute to S.2392, which was initially introduced
by Sen. Bob Bennett, R-Utah, at the request of the Administration.
The bill also includes a new amendment by Sen. Fred Thompson
(R-Tenn.).

   The bill now goes to the House. The bill's purpose is to encourage
the full disclosure and exchange of solutions and test results for
Year 2000 computer problems, by providing limited liability
protection, for a limited time, for specific kinds of Year 2000
information that is considered essential to remediation efforts,
but not for faulty products or services. It promotes
company-to-company information sharing, without limiting the rights
of consumers.  The bill also includes a Leahy provision chartering
a national Y2K Website for consumers, small businesses and local
governments.

   "Four-hundred and fifty-eight days from now, millions of computers
controlling our air traffic, recording credit card sales, running
electric and phone systems, tracking bank deposits and monitoring
hospital patients may crash in befuddlement.

   "No bill can magically solve the Y2K problem, but this bill
greatly increases the chances that people will come forward more
readily with solutions.

   "This bill also includes a provision I have offered that will help
consumers, small businesses and local governments by chartering a
national information clearinghouse and Website as a starting point
to provide rapid and accurate information about solving Y2K problems.

   "Knowledge is power in exterminating the millennium bug, and it
makes perfect sense to amplify and encourage the use of the Internet
itself as an information resource in grappling with this problem."

 -0-
 /U.S. Newswire  202-347-2770/
 09/29 08:49

Copyright 1998, U.S. Newswire
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 23:15:31 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: NSA listening practices called European `threat'
Message-ID: <199809300407.VAA08318@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: NSA listening practices called European `threat'
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 11:43:12 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  Baltimore Sun
http://www.sunspot.net/cgi-bin/editorial/story.cgi?storyid=900000194001

NSA listening practices called European `threat'
European Parliament report accuses agency of widespread spying 

By Neal Thompson 
Sun Staff

The National Security Agency has incurred the wrath of some U.S.
allies and triggered debate about increased global eavesdropping,
thanks to a new report that accuses the agency of spying on
European citizens and companies.

With the help of a listening post in the moors of northern England,
NSA for nearly a decade has been snatching Europe's electronic
communications signals, according to a report for the European
Parliament.

"Within Europe, all e-mail, telephone and fax communications are
routinely intercepted by the United States National Security Agency,
transferring all target information to Fort Meade," said the report.

`Powerful threat'

It warned that the NSA's tactics represent a "powerful threat to civil
liberties in Europe" at a time when more communication -- and
commerce -- is conducted electronically.

A preliminary version of the report circulated overseas in recent
months, touching off heated debate, with front-page stories in Italy,
France, Scotland, England, Belgium and even Russia.

The NSA won't discuss the report or even admit that the listening
post exists.

But this week, two days of debate in the European Parliament
continued the extraordinary public disclosure of comprehensive
post-Cold War spying by the agency. On Wednesday, the
Parliament passed a resolution seeking more accountability from such
eavesdropping arrangements and more assurances that they won't be
misused.

"We want to make sure that somebody's watching them," said Glyn
Ford, a British member of the European Parliament, the legislative
body for the 15-member European Union.

Observers say this was the first time a governmental body has
described in detail -- and then criticized -- the NSA's tactics.

"The cat's well and true out of the bag," said Simon Davies, director
of the London-based watchdog group Privacy International. "I would
argue that we have made the grandest step in 50 years toward
accountability of such national security transparencies."

The report describes a sophisticated program called Echelon, which
the NSA established in conjunction with British intelligence agencies.
The program includes a listening post in Menwith Hill, in Yorkshire,
whose satellite dishes soak up the satellite and microwave
transmissions carrying Europe's telephone conversations, faxes and
e-mail.

Unlike Cold War spying aimed at the military, Echelon is a global
electronic surveillance system that targets individuals, businesses,
governments and organizations, the report says.

The U.S. shares the information with Britain, Canada, Australia and
New Zealand as part of an intelligence-sharing agreement called
UKUSA. Each nation has its own set of key words, so it can seek
information on specific issues, the report states.

Europe is but a fraction of Echelon's target area -- and the Menwith
Hill post is one of at least 10 around the world, the report adds.

"One reason its a bigger deal over there than it is over here [in the
U.S.] is because the SIGINT [signals intelligence] systems are over
their heads and not our heads," said Jeffrey Richelson, an analyst
with the National Security Archives, a U.S. group seeking to
declassify intelligence related documents.

Echelon repercussions

But the disclosure of Echelon could soon resonate across the Atlantic
after the European Parliament action. Furthermore, it could
complicate current negotiations between the U.S. and the European
Union over encryption programs that scramble or encode computer
information, said Parliament member Ford.

The U.S. has been lobbying for back-door access to such codes for
security reasons.

Originally published on Sep 19 1998 
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




**********************************************
To subscribe or unsubscribe, email:
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 23:15:10 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Fwd: [Spooks] NSA Allegedly Spied on Businesses
Message-ID: <199809300407.VAA08329@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: Bridget973@aol.com
Subject: IP: Fwd: [Spooks] NSA Allegedly Spied on Businesses
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 21:37:12 EDT
To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com

Subject:         [Spooks] NSA Allegedly Spied on Businesses
Date:             Sat, 26 Sep 1998 14:36:35 -0500
From:            Bob Margolis 
To:                Spooks 


U.S. Spy Agency Helped U.S. Companies Win Business Overseas-Report

September 21, 1998

Nikkei English News: TOKYO (AP)--A U.S. intelligence agency
electronically eavesdropped on  foreign companies and passed
information to U.S. competitors to help them win business
overseas, a major Tokyo  newspaper reported Saturday.

The National Security Agency monitored phone calls, faxes and
electronic  mail  of European and Japanese companies since at
least 1990, the Mainichi  newspaper said, citing a report
Wednesday by the European Parliament, the European Union's
legislature.

The newspaper quoted the report as saying the NSA, in an
operation named "Echelon," used its vast eavesdropping network
to listen to business  negotiations.

The Central Intelligence Agency and British intelligence were
also involved, the paper said.

The paper said the report was submitted Wednesday to parliament
by its research bureau. Some of the findings also appeared in a
January report, the paper said.

In one case, the NSA monitored talks between French electronics
company Thomson-CSF and the Brazilian government over sale of a
radar system. An unnamed U.S. company ended up winning the
contract, the paper said.

The paper also said the NSA listened in on 1990 negotiations
between Japan's NEC Corp. and the Indonesian government over the
purchase of telecommunications machinery.

It used the information to urge Jakarta to award half the contract
to AT&T, the paper said.

---
Submissions should be sent to spooks@qth.net
To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe spooks" to majordomo@qth.net



--
bridget973@aol.com
Black Helicopters on the Horizon:
http://members.xoom.com/bridget973





**********************************************
To subscribe or unsubscribe, email:
     majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com
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**********************************************
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 23:15:10 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Fwd: [Spooks] CIA Operative sentenced to five years imprisonment
Message-ID: <199809300407.VAA08340@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: Bridget973@aol.com
Subject: IP: Fwd: [Spooks] CIA Operative sentenced to five years imprisonment
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 22:03:52 EDT
To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com


http://www.abcnews.com/wire/US/AP19980925_1626.html

AP News Service
WASHINGTON (AP) _ A former CIA operative was sentenced to five years in prison
today for trying to extort $1 million from the agency in exchange for his
silence about government eavesdropping operations.  Douglas Fred Groat, 51,
pleaded guilty to the extortion charge in July. As part of the plea agreement,
federal prosecutors dropped four counts of espionage, including charges that
Groat told two foreign governments the CIA had cracked their coded
communications. 
U.S. District Judge Thomas F. Hogan said Groat's actions appeared to stem from
his ``almost becoming obsessed'' about a job dispute with the CIA. 
``I don't think at any time you really had any intention of trying to harm our
national security,'' Hogan said.  

The judge said he would recommend housing Groat in a minimum-security prison
and ordered him to serve three years of supervised release after completing
his sentence. Groat, a burly, bearded man, did not speak in the courtroom
except to clarify part of his written statement to the court, which was not
immediately
released.

He said that in complaining about the ``harsh conditions of my solitary
confinement,'' he did not mean to imply that any federal officials treated him
harshly. His lawyer, public defender Robert L. Tucker, said the case was ``a
shame'' and that Groat's actions ``everybody would agree had their genesis in
a dispute with the CIA about employment.'' 

Prosecutors said in July a trial in the case could have forced them to
disclose sensitive national security information. Groat agreed to help the
government sort out whether his activities damaged
national security, and he promised to submit any books, articles or interviews
to federal officials for security review.  Prosecutor Ron Walutes told Hogan
the government was ``fully satisfied'' with Groat's cooperation since his
guilty plea on July 27.  Groat, a former employee of the CIA division that
develops eavesdropping plans and code-breaking technology, worked for the CIA
from 1980 until he was fired in October 1996. Early in his career, he served
as a field operative
participating in break-ins of foreign embassies. 
In a summary agreed to in July by Groat, prosecutors said he sent a series of
letters to the CIA in 1996 and 1997 demanding $1 million and saying that in
return he would not engage in ``any activities which may hinder present or
future intelligence gathering efforts.'' Officials did not identify the two
countries Groat had been accused of aiding. Groat was held without bail since
he was arrested in April. He will be able to collect his CIA pension when he
turns 62. 
He could have been sentenced to up to 20 years in prison and a $250,000 fine. 
Groat had been the third current or former CIA employee arrested on espionage
charges in the past four years. However, he was lower-ranking than Alrich Ames
and Harold Nicholson, who pleaded guilty and are imprisoned for selling
secrets to Moscow. 

Copyright 1998 AP News Service. All rights reserved



---
Submissions should be sent to spooks@qth.net
To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe spooks" to majordomo@qth.net



--
bridget973@aol.com
Black Helicopters on the Horizon:
http://members.xoom.com/bridget973





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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 22:43:02 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809300345.WAA10211@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: Matthew James Gering 
> Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
> Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 18:41:25 -0700

> Jim Choate wrote:
> > The only objection to releasing an API is to 
> > stifle competition, *THAT* is a bad thing.
> 
> There are a number of other reasons -- principally support and backwards
> compatibility costs. If you release an API for a commercial application
> for ISVs, you better make sure it is relatively bug-free and mature. As
> soon as someone else's code relies on that API, you are stuck with
> making sure it continues to work as the product evolves.

This is bogus reasoning. If the API is released there is *more* motivation
for the original distributor to keep backward compatibility and bug-free. If
it isn't some pissed off set of programmers will write a replacement.
Furthermore the motivation to keep future compatibility is also increased.

You want quality code that is bullet-proof then release the API and let the
fittest survive.

If nothing else it's going to determine if your as bad-assed programmer as
you think you are.

> There is nothing wrong with public and private APIs, and we hope that
> the ad hoc private APIs from some midnight-oil-burning-hack to get the
> product to ship on time that have useful functionality will eventually
> be integrated into a mature public API.

If you release the API you'll find those midnight hacks go away, *not*
increase as you seem to be claiming. The history of quality over time of the
Open Software producers amply proves this.

Solaris, HP, BSD, NT, etc. *wish* they were as stable and popular as Linux.

> Modular OOP design means you have lots of interfaces, you don't
> necessarily want people to be able to dig in-between all the pieces of
> your program -- often you cannot protect application/data integrity if
> they do.

Malarky. If you're data structures are that fragile then you need to go back
to the drawing board.

> > Had Microsoft, for example, been required to publish their 
> > API's by the market we wouldn't be spending all this effort
> 
> You state free-market and then you are *requiring* someone to do
> something? How do you resolve that contradiction? Require = Force !=
> Free[dom]

Free-market *requires* fair competition, don't blame that requirement on me
I had nothing to do with it. Free-market does not mean carte blanche as to
what manufacturers can do, it means there are no outside regulations
applied. It says *nothing* about internal regulation applied by either the
producer or the consumer.

If you are seriously saying that the only workable market scheme is to let
people cheat and steal from others (which is what poorly written and
unreliable code does) then you need to quit typing and starting thinking.

> As far as *commercial* software vendors go, Microsoft is one of the
> better companies for publishing APIs and creating useful APIs and tools

Malarky. Microsoft has so many hidden, undocumented, incomplete API's it
isn't even funny.

> for Rapid Application Development. Do you subscribe to MSDN? Please do
> before you crucify Microsoft for lack of APIs, if anything they have too
> many.

Subscribe to the MSDN?

I work for Tivoli in Austin as a Senior Software Verification Engineer. I
spend about 8-10 hours a day banging on software running on:

SunOS 4.x
Solaris 2.x
HP/UX 9.x
HP/UX 10.x
AIX 3.x
AIX 4.x
WinNT 4.0
WinNT 3.51
W4W
W3.11
OS/2 3.x
OS/2 4.x
AS/400
Novell 3.x
Novell 4.x
IRIX 4.x
IRIX 5.x
DG Unix
Digital Unix
NextStep

networked via,

TCP/IP
IPX
SNA
Token Ring

databases we support,

Oracle
Sybase
Informix
DB2
DBMX

I've also worked on:

Pick
Linux (since 0.42)
QNX
SCO
Interactive
BSD
CP/M
C64
AmigaDOS
4DOS

It requires that I comprehend and write shell scripts, Perl, C, C++, REXX,
4TEST, CORBA IDL on these platforms. I started analog and digital electronics
in 1969, I started programming in BASIC/8 on a PDP 8/e in 1973. I built my
first 6800 based machines from the ground up in 1974 when I was a freshman in
high school. I've been employed in a hardware or software position since 1978
when I graduated high school. I've owned more different types of machines
than I care to remember. I've worked in a science museum building 40
exhibits over 7 years (2 of which are in the Smithsonian, 1 is at the
Exploratorium and 1 is at the Chicago Museum of Science and Technology,
and I worked on the IBM Leonardo exhibit.) and had the pleasure of running
their computer group for 5 of those years. I taught astronomy at the museum
for 3 years and explained exhibits to the visitors for 7 years. I've been
using MS Dos and Windows since the 1.0 days. I worked for the DoD building
non-Von Neumann computers (RTL architecture). I hold a NASA certification
(expired) for space rated soldering and mechanical assembly. I used to work
on cesium beam atomic clocks and LORAN-C equipment. I run my own custom
development business since 1984, and it's been on the internet since 1994
via ISDN. I've been running a BBS of some sort since '76 and had one
continously online since '83. I helped develop TurBoard the first NAPLPS
bbs software. I program in assembly on PDP/VAX 11, 6800, 6502, 8080, z80,
68k, 80x86, Sparc RISC, both types of POWER chips, & 8051.

My current assignment is to build an automated software test engine that
will test *all* the above OS'es with all the Tivoli products (are you
familiar with Tivoli?), with all the point-patches, maintenance releases,
and service packs installed in a user defined combinatorial environment.

Microsoft's API's suck rocks.

What do you do for a living?


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 23:53:11 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809300454.XAA10768@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 00:21:19 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Vlad Stesin 
> Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)

> > 
> > Solaris, HP, BSD, NT, etc. *wish* they were as stable and popular as Linux.
> > 
> 
> Which BSD are you talking about? From my personal and professional
> experience, OpenBSD, NetBSD and FreeBSD proved to be just as stable (and
> OpenBSD even more stable and reliable) than Linux. All three of them are

> Take a look at http://www.openbsd.org/crypto.html for more info.
> 
> I hope you meant BSD/OS when you mentioned BSD :-)

Well I've used all three version. In particular after I got my current Sun
4/380 from the local CACTUS Unix user group I tried several variaties of BSD
on it and none of them have stayed up as long, had as many applications
available for them, or been easier to debug than Linux SPARC (and that is
behind x86 by a couple of generations - though that should change in the
immediate future). I also tried it on my Amiga 2000 when there wasn't a
working version of Linux for it. I've got like 5 different disk sets I've
tried over the last 3 years, thanks I'll stick with Linux SPARC. I've even
got an *old* version of BSD before they went with their current license scheme
that I used when I worked at Compu-Add from '91 through '92 in their POS
support department because one of our food chain customers liked the way
the box arched....:)

I have yet to see any BSD installation with a total uptime greater than 8-10
weeks whereas I've seen my *old* 1.1.59 Linux version (still running on
einstein.ssz.com at this very moment) stay up for over 6 months between
reboots (and even then it wasn't a requirement, the clock keeps wondering off
and by 6 months it's nearly 12 hours ahead).

I have no desire to get into a OS war, I currently use like 6 different
os'es at home - to each their own.

But to assuage your curiosity I prefer AmigaDOS and/or Plan 9 with Logo
for programming (now if I could only find a decent Logo compiler),
though Amoeba is starting to look pretty interesting. I'd use BeOS a lot
more if I thought for one second there was a real future for it, even though
I do try each release.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Vlad Stesin 
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 23:23:29 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199809300345.WAA10211@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> 
> Solaris, HP, BSD, NT, etc. *wish* they were as stable and popular as Linux.
> 

Which BSD are you talking about? From my personal and professional
experience, OpenBSD, NetBSD and FreeBSD proved to be just as stable (and
OpenBSD even more stable and reliable) than Linux. All three of them are
open-source. The OpenBSD project emphasizes the importance of security and
cryptography, and since it ships from Canada there are few export
restrictions. 

Take a look at http://www.openbsd.org/crypto.html for more info.

I hope you meant BSD/OS when you mentioned BSD :-)

Regards,
-- 
Vlad Stesin						(514) 845-5555
UNIX Systems Administrator / Generation.NET     vstesin@Generation.NET
Montreal (PQ), Canada  B4 44 CE 60 09 71 38 6F 51 BF DC 5F 12 E9 70 7C 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: M Taylor 
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 22:27:19 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Halifax, Canada PGP key-signing party
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




The Nova Scotia Linux Users Group (nsLUG, www.nslug.ns.ca) is considering
a PGP key-signing party in October 1998 in the metro Halifax area.

If you are interested, please contact me, so I can inform you of the exact
date & location.

--
M Taylor   mctaylor@  /  glyphmetrics.ca | privacy.nb.ca




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: phelix@vallnet.com
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 19:56:13 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Remailers, PGP, and a Project Suggestion
In-Reply-To: <19980929051529.13737.qmail@hades.rpini.com>
Message-ID: <361d80cd.584564481@news>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On 29 Sep 1998 12:59:44 -0500, Adam Back  wrote:

>
>
>Anonymous writes:
>> >        So, what you are saying is that you want crypto to protect yourself
>> >from government intrusion, but are unwilling to actually WRITE the code for
>> >fear that the government will lock you up.
>> 
>> That's about right. I will write the code for myself. I will not release it
>> since I'm in the U.S. and it gives the thugs one more reason to come after
>> me. That job is better suited for somebody who is outside the U.S. or is
>> actually willing to sit through a long grand jury investigation, possible
>> indictment, trial, conviction, jail time, and life as a convicted felon.
>
>Ah come on, it isn't that bad.  Just put it on a crypto site with some
>dumb revolving password scheme, or give it to someone else to put no
>theirs.  It'll be on replay with-in a few hours, if anyone is
>interested in the code.
>

Also, couldn't you just print out the sorce code (in a nice OCR font) and
mail it to somebody in another country, like with the PGP books?
Is anyone out there (not in the US) willing to do this?

What about MIT?  They distribute pgp.  Perhaps someone there could be
persuaded to maintain a broader crypto archive.

-- Phelix




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 03:18:47 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A19284706@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate wrote:
> This is bogus reasoning. If the API is released there is 
> *more* motivation for the original distributor to keep 
> backward compatibility and bug-free.

Duh, I never said otherwise. More motivation and more cost.

Sometimes (more often than not) it takes a couple drafts and re-writes
before things are the way they ought to be. APIs will often progress
from private to public as an evolution from immaturity to maturity,
disorganization to organization, ad hoc hack to flexible functionality,
custom purpose to generic usefulness. You evidently completely missed
that point.

> You want quality code that is bullet-proof then release the 
> API and let the fittest survive.

Which is fine unless you are liable to support the inferior.

> If you release the API you'll find those midnight hacks 
> go away, *not* increase as you seem to be claiming.

Midnight hacks will never go away.

But again, you missed my point. I stated many APIs start out as midnight
hacks.

> Solaris, HP, BSD, NT, etc. *wish* they were as stable and 
> popular as Linux.

Let's not start OS wars. Each to their own, OSs are tools not religions.

> Free-market *requires* fair competition

By whose misguided definition? Free market required freedom (freedom
requires absence of coercive force), nothing else. Freedom is about
actions (motion), not static states (past/present/future), and so is
Competition. Id est, competition includes potential competition, a free
capital market guarantees potential competition, only force [regulation]
can hinder that.

> it means there are no outside regulations applied. 
> It says *nothing* about internal regulation applied 
> by either the producer or the consumer.

"Regulation" generally = political power (= force). Whether than is
externally applied or internally applied under the threat of external
force makes no difference. When the politicos talk about wanting
deregulation and industry self-regulation, what they really mean is they
want industry to bow to their whim under threat of their arbitrary
power. Such actions then avoid the scrutiny and protections
theoretically provided by the political/legal system.

The only legitimate force is economic -- the decision to purchase or not
to purchase, or to purchase a competing or alternative product. Economic
force is not a regulator of the free market, it is its heart and soul,
the essence of the free market. Economic force requires absence of
political force to truly work properly.

> If you are seriously saying that the only workable market 
> scheme is to let people cheat and steal from others
> (which is what poorly written and unreliable code does)

How so? You have a choice to consume or not to consume, there is no act
of coercive force, I cannot steal from you without it. Cheat I may, a
fool and his money are easily parted. Civil liability and reputation
naturally regulate such things, no govt. regulation necessary. [And you
say, but wait, civil liability requires govt. regulation -- it does now
but it need not, free market legal systems can provide such with
reputation instead of guns as its basis]

> Malarky. Microsoft has so many hidden, undocumented, 
> incomplete API's it isn't even funny.

Did I say they did not? I've worked at Microsoft, I not only know that
but I know why (and it's no conspiracy, chaos is more like it). 

They also have good many published APIs, and at the application layer
they are way ahead of most other vendors. At the OS layer I think open
source will win out, so you are preaching to the choir.

Open source will prevail if it makes economic (business) sense, all
other reasons are corollary. Regulation will destroy the free market
that could make open source viable.

     "There is a fantasy that open source and capitalism are 
     incompatible," Allman said. That misconception was at the 
     center of the decision to drop the "freeware" moniker in 
     favor of "open source." As Allman and others explained, 
     open source is a model for doing business, for making money.

(source: http://www.upside.com/texis/mvm/story?id=3564b5500)


	Matt




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 18:20:05 +0800
To: Andreas.Poliza@Golive.com
Subject: GoLive CyberStudio 30-day Activation Key
Message-ID: <199809292321.BAA28011@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Dear Dumbshit,

Thank you for spamming the Cypherpunks list with an ad for your crippleware
and your lame, pathetically designed web site.

Your official 30-day activation key is: ISUCKANDCANTWRITEHTMLANDISPAM

You'll need to enter this key when you try to activate your brain.

Included in response to all spams to the Cypherpunks list are free tests
which will be run on your system. Any security holes we find will not be
reported, but exploited.

NOTE: If you are using FuckIt Spammer 1.0.x to spam your ad, please make
sure you walk off a high-rise ledge and fall several hundred feet or we may
have to make sure you do it, and you probably don't want that.

If you have questions about your computer security, you do not need to send
to Cypherpunks. You have already requested that your machine be checked for
all security holes and that any found will be exploited to make you look
even stupider than you make yourselves look. We also suggest you learn how 
to make a web site. Please visit http://www.anybrowser.org/campaign/. If you
don't find your answers there, please walk in front of an 18-wheeler going
70mph, or call 911 and phone in a bomb threat.

When you are ready to put yourself out of our misery, please slash your 
wrists and play vampire. It's simple so your simple minds should be able to
handle it, but it is a little messy.

Sincerely,

The Cypherpunks
cypherpunks@cyberpass.net

On Tue, 29 Sep 1998 sales@golive.com spammed:

>
> Dear Fritzie,
>
> Thank you for downloading the GoLive CyberStudio Tryout
> software.
>
> Your official 30-day activation key is: TRIA1MT23NFJD8MXGGJ85UDA
>
> You'll need to enter this key when you first start-up the
> software.
>
> Included with the GoLive CyberStudio installation are the
> latest Release Notes and New Product Features for GoLive
> CyberStudio.
>
> NOTE: If you are using Stuffit Expander 4.5.x to decode and
> decompress PDF documents, please make sure the cross
> platform preference and the option "Convert Text Files to
> Macintosh Format" is set to "Never".
>
> If you have questions about how to use the Tryout software,
> GoLive's knowledgeable Technical Support staff is available
> to assist you. We suggest you first check the Technical
> Support section of our Web site www.golive.com. If you don't
> find your answers there, please send us an email at
> support@golive.com or call 1-800-554-6638.
>
> When you are ready to purchase GoLive CyberStudio or if you
> want to know more about why GoLive CyberStudio is the best
> product for Web site design, please return to our Web site
> or contact me at 1-800-554-6638 or 1-650-463-1580.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Dan Fernandez
> Director US Sales
> GoLive Systems
> Sales@Golive.com
>
>




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Rabid Wombat 
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 22:44:39 +0800
To: Tim May 
Subject: Re: New California Spam Law is Bullshit
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Got an actual cite for this, or better yet a url to the actual statute?

On Wed, 30 Sep 1998, Tim May wrote:

> At 6:43 PM -0700 9/30/98, Max Inux wrote:
> >On Wed, 30 Sep 1998 2001files@usa.net wrote:
> >
> >Dear spammer,
> >
> >Nice threats are attached to this spam.  I love new ideas from the
> >spamming community. Please be aware by not  including a real human email
> >address (specifically stated) and a 1800 number to call to be removed,
> >you are in violation of California law.
> 
> Think twice before citing this new law....
> 
> Whatever one thinks about unsolicited e-mail, the provisions of this new
> California bill are frightening to any supporter of liberty.
> 
> * the requirement that mail have a "real" name attached to it runs afoul of
> the right to anonymous messages, supported in various cases (Talley, for
> example). A requirement that e-mail be identified is no different from a
> requirement that pamphlets and articles have "real" names on them. So much
> for the First Amendment.
> 
> (Oh, and the _commercial_ nature of UCE has nothing to do with the First
> Amendment issues, unless one thinks the canonical First case, Sullivan, is
> meaningless because the New York Times was "commercial speech.")
> 
> * think of the implications for anonymous messages, through remailers
> 
> * and where does the "must have a toll-free number" bullshit come from?
> Think about it. It may sound _nice_ to demand that people have toll-free
> numbers, but where is the constitutional support for such a taking?
> 
> And so on.
> 
> --Tim May
> 
> Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash.
> ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
> Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
> ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
> W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
> Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.
> 
> 
> 
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 08:44:32 +0800
To: ukcrypto@maillist.ox.ac.uk
Subject: hoodwinking  congress
Message-ID: <36123260.2E7B@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Wednesday 9/30/98 6:57 AM

J Orlin Grabbe
John Young

I read      Operating Systems
           Netscape & Intel Grab On to Red Hat
                                 Linux
                   as Windows NT Alternative

at http://www.aci.net/kalliste/ this morning.

I have to get my "green machine" http://www.metriguard.com/HCLT.HTM
assembler code ported to Visual Basic 6.0 using MASM 6.11.

Yesterday I discovered that VB 6.0 uses the flat model.  Thirty-two bit
addresses.
No segment registers.

No longer will code be backward compatible on Intel processors.

One of my next steps is to get the digital FX working, of course, then
port the PC
sides to NT.

VB 6.0 is using Microsoft's optimized C compiler to do the Visual Basic
compilation!

I learned yesterday evening that the PC Data System in Australia is
grading lumber at
2,000 feet per second.

I was in Grangeville, Id at Sherer planer mill in about January of 1996
testing out PC Data System.

  PC Data System - Pentium PC & Windows (R) software system for
production-line lumber     testing - CLT & HCLT 
http://www.metriguard.com/METPROD.HTM

I was told last night that Sherer system was only running 800 per
minute.

2 x 12 about 16 feet long planks were running continuously through the
machine at Sherer.  Wewear ear plugs the noise was deafening.

Sure be fun to get this mess settled so that I could do more work with
NT.

We are in a lull in the GREAT FIGHT.  http://jya.com/whpfiles.htm

I thoroughly enjoyed http://www.jya.com/itl-news.htm government crypto
propaganda attempt in view of Black and White.
http://www.aci.net/kalliste/bw1.htm 
http://www.zolatimes.com/v2.29/bw1.html

Let's hope some FINALLY figure out that NSA, NIST, and the FBI are
hoodwinking 
congress on the crypto issue merely for business reasons.  

Let's all hope for settlement before this matter gets WORSE.

Later
bill





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 2001files@usa.net
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 11:07:25 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Increase Your Paycheck Next Week
Message-ID: <199809301608.JAA07148@cyberpass.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Would you like to get a pay raise next week without asking your boss?   Then this very special report, "Money Power," is for you!

If you have a regular job - not working in your own or a family business - and you get a regular paycheck, we can show you how you can give yourself a HUGE RAISE in your very next paycheck.  At least between 20% - 30% more than what you are getting now.  Yes, your paycheck will be increased substantially!

	* Example:  If your take home pay is $400 net per week, you can take home $440 - $500 the very next week and every week thereafter!

No Gimmicks!  Everything is perfectly legal.

"Money Power" is written in three parts:

	*Part I - shows you exactly what to do so you can give yourself a raise in your next paycheck.  You decide how big a pay raise you want to give yourself!

	*Part II -  shows you how to protect yourself, your family, your home, and your assets without paying big money -- just $85 per year to legally protect your liability 100% against bill collectors and debts.

	*Part III - shows you how you can legally deduct household expenses - utilities, gardener, supplies, repairs, and more from your income taxes.  Absolutely No Gimmicks!  Everything is legal.

This is NOT a "get rich quick" scheme or some other scam.  We are sure you have seen lots of them.  And this is NOT a "tax protester" who refuses to pay income taxes.  The author of this report pays taxes every year - of course, as little as legally possible.  It's our opinion it is not good to zero out completely.  But, you can - it's your choice.

Using the methods in this report, the rich become richer.  And poor people become poorer when they don't take advantage of these techniques.  Your chances of being audited by the IRS - just for using these methods - are near zero.

	* We are so sure "Money Power" will work for you, here is our risk-free guarantee.  If you don't get at least 100 times more money in your paycheck in one year than the cost of this report, we will double your money back!  How's that for a guarantee?
                      ---------------------------------

Now, here's one more offer you will find hard to refuse.  We have a Reseller Program whereby you can make money selling this report.  When you purchase "Money Power," you will also get 1,000 FREE places to advertise on the Internet!  If you want to make some extra money - $500, $1,000 or more - just post ads on those sites and have the orders come to you.  For every order you send us, we will pay you $5.00:
	*You don't need a merchant account to process orders!  We do that.
	*You don't have to warehouse any inventory!  We do that.
	*You don't have to ship any merchandise.  We do that.
All you have to do is send us the orders.  We'll process checks, money orders, and credit cards and we will pack and mail the report.  And you get paid twice a month - on the 15th and the 30th!
                     ------------------------------------



And, listen.  America is a free country.  If you don't want an increase in your paycheck, that's fine.  And if you don't want to know how to protect your family, that's OK, too.  And if you don't want to save money on taxes, that's quite all right.  You are living in a free country.

But, if you need money - more money in your paycheck, act right now!  

The author of this report used to work for Corporate America earning over $100,000 a year.  After paying almost 40% in Federal taxes, 6.2% for Social Security, 1.45% for Medicare, 1.5% for the unemployment fund, and 3% for his employee benefits, he would bring home less than half of his yearly salary!  And then there was state income tax to pay!   He decided he had to do something so he could keep all the money!

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It can't get much better than this.  This is a once in a lifetime opportunity because you may not receive this message again.  And you know how it is with opportunities ..... if you pass on one, you are not entitled to another for a long time.


Don't Delay!  The longer you wait to order, the longer you will wait for your raise!!!!


	>>>>>>>>>>>>> Please Note:  This report is for U.S. Citizens and Green Card holders only!  This program will not work for illegal immigrants or foreigners.<<<<<<<<<<<<

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here's how to order:

*****To order online, click on your reply button and type ORDER ONLINE in the subject line and we will e-mail you the online order form.

                             OR

Print out the convenient order form below NOW and mail it to:

	World Net Press
	Dept. EN-930
	P.O. Box 96594
	Las Vegas, NV 89193-6594
	
Payment Method:  
_____ Check     
_____ Money Order
_____ Visa
_____ MasterCard
_____ American Express
_____ Discover

_____ Yes, I want to order my copy of  "Money Power".  Price is $9.95 + $3.95 S/H = $13.90 and my order will be shipped by 1st Class Mail.   

Name_________________________________________________________________________

Address______________________________________________________________________

City/State/Zip_______________________________________________________________

Daytime Phone (__________)___________________________________________________

E-Mail Address_______________________________________________________________

Credit Card #_____________________________________________ Exp. Date_________

Cardholder Name (as it appears on the card)__________________________________

(Please make sure you include your phone number and e-mail address in case we have a question about your order.  Your credit card billing will reflect Road to Wealth, Inc.)



**************************************************************************
We are currently consolidating our mailing lists and need to update our database.  Our records indicate you may have inquired in the past. If this message has reached you in error, or the information is not correct, please accept our apology.  Follow the instructions below to be removed and we will honor your request.  We do not knowingly engage in spam of any kind.

Please click on your reply button and type REMOVE in the subject line only.  The software reads only the subject line, not the body of the message.
**************************************************************************

Please be advised we collect the e-mail addresses of all flamers, hackers, and users of abusive and vulgar language.  We submit these addresses to the FBI and Interpol on a monthly basis.  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 09:24:42 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: 1998 FBI WISH LIST - Unlimited Wiretaps!
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Delivered-To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 05:55:01 -0400 (EDT)
To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
From: softwar@us.net (CharlesSmith)
Subject: IP: 1998 FBI WISH LIST - Unlimited Wiretaps!
Sender: owner-ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
Precedence: list
Reply-To: softwar@us.net (CharlesSmith)

September 29, 1998 --from Congressman Barr's web site

BARR EXPOSES DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE POWER GRAB

WASHINGTON, DC -- U.S. Representative Bob Barr (GA-7) released today
information exposing an effort by the Department of Justice to obtain
massive new enforcement powers in the closing days of the 105th Congress. Barr
obtained the information from a confidential source within federal law
enforcement.  Among other things, the Department's "wish list" for new
authority includes (among others):

A vastly expanded definition of terrorism to include domestic crimes
having no relationship to terrorism.

The power to seize commercial transportation assets for federal use.

The ability to commander personnel from other federal agencies without
reimbursement.

Expanded wiretap authority to allow "roving" wiretaps, and wiretaps
without any court authority.

Enlarged asset forfeiture provisions to allow the FBI to seize personal
property in both criminal and civil matters.

The establishment of a permanent "FBI Police Force."

Loosening of Posse Comitatus restrictions to allow more military
involvement in domestic law enforcement.

Authority to force telephone and Internet companies to divulge
information on their customers.

"These requests belong in some bizarre conspiracy novel, not in serious
legislative documents being circulated at the top levels of federal law
enforcement.  These proposals represent a sneak attack on the most cherished
principles of our democracy.  If they become a part of our law, freedom and
privacy in America will be permanently and severely diminished," said Barr.

Barr also noted the Department and the FBI are "shopping" this wish list
in an effort to get the items placed in a spending measure without hearings
or debate.


================================================================
1 if by land, 2 if by sea.  Paul Revere - encryption 1775
Charles R. Smith
SOFTWAR         http://www.softwar.net      softwar@softwar.net
Pcyphered SIGNATURE:
742A59841467BC656DC19CD9D14B57318A1D3BDAB365AA32D70AD05DFAA08FC7
16CACEB73A010562BC412D6F45E1A2B88074A90A1D3AD6077895CAC1FDE25404
8C02268DEC1D0880
================================================================
SOFTWAR EMAIL NEWSLETTER                            09/30/1998
***  to unsubscribe reply with "unsubscribe" as subject    ***
================================================================






**********************************************
To subscribe or unsubscribe, email:
     majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com
with the message:
     (un)subscribe ignition-point email@address
**********************************************
www.telepath.com/believer
**********************************************

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Richard Stallman 
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 11:26:24 +0800
To: aba@dcs.ex.ac.uk
Subject: Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code)
In-Reply-To: <199809281845.TAA18662@server.eternity.org>
Message-ID: <199809301621.KAA09089@wijiji.santafe.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I designed the GNU GPL to insist that you must make your code free
software, if you include GPL-covered code in it.  I did this for a
reason: to encourage people to make software free.  It does this by
providing code that is available only for writing free software, not
for writing proprietary software.

The GNU GPL works well to promote free software (see
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/pragmatic.html).  It also permits
commercial use of the code.  What it does not permit is using the code
in a proprietary program.  I won't use proprietary software, I want to
have free software for every job.  So I have no reason to help you
write any proprietary software.  If you want code you can use in a
proprietary program, you are out of luck.

It isn't surprising that people who want to write non-free software
are disappointed that the GNU project won't help them.  What is
amazing is that they feel this is unfair.  They have no intention of
letting me use their source code in my programs--so why should they be
entitled to use my source code in their programs?  These people seem
to think that their selfishness entitles them to special treatment.

The GPL is my way of offering a certain kind of cooperation to anyone
else who is willing to cooperate in the same way.


For an explanation of the difference between commercial and
proprietary, see http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/categories.html and
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Richard Stallman 
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 11:22:56 +0800
To: aba@dcs.ex.ac.uk
Subject: Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code)
In-Reply-To: <199809281845.TAA18662@server.eternity.org>
Message-ID: <199809301621.KAA09091@wijiji.santafe.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



    All stuff I have written (non-commercially) so far has been PD.
    (Actually I don't even dignify it with a `this is PD' note -- I
    personally have zip respect for copyright, patents, licenses).

Legally, what this means is that your software is copyrighted, and any
redistribution of it is illegal.  That counterintuitive consequence is
the due to a treaty, the Berne Convention, that was designed to cater
to copyright owners.

    However, perhaps one could do one better than PD: restrict use to
    propogate cypherpunk goals.  eg. 

    - You may not use this code in software which provides government back
    doors.

    - secret service agencies can not use this software / or must pay
    exorbitant license fees

My information is that such criteria are not legally enforcible under
copyright law in many countries.  You should probably check with a
copyright lawyer before trying such a thing.

In addition, a program with a restriction like this is not free
software, so people would probably work on a free replacement for it.
I don't want government back doors in any software I use, but this
kind of restriction is the wrong way to avoid them.  The right way is
through the GNU GPL, which would enable people to check the source
code of a modified version for anything suspicious.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Cory R. King" 
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 13:12:39 +0800
To: "'usa.net@abuse.net>
Subject: SPAM -> FW: Increase Your Paycheck Next Week
Message-ID: <2103E70650D5D11189650080ADB400C505A57A@DOGBONE>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Without a doubt, this is the first spam that has made me seriously
question taking the low ground in the spam wars, and just totally
fucking with this guy.. I've got quite a stack of "bill-me-later"
magazine subscriptions that I would be more then happy to sign this
asshole up to....

TO AOL.COM:  This puppy came from you....  all lines above - 
Received: from 152.202.71.131 (202-71-131.ipt.aol.com
[152.202.71.131])....
 - are part of the mailing list that this asshole sent to...  also take
a look at the last sentence of this guys spam....  oooooooooooo... I'm
gonna mail him some "abusive" shit in a second!!!!!!!  LART this luser
GOOD!!!!

TO USA.NET:  To drop boxes to investigate:  2001files@usa.net,
business_ideas@usa.net

TO CYPHERPUNKS:  If any of you guys are the "psychotic" kind... please
be so kind as to kill this asshole...  How DARE he threaten us (see last
line of spam!).... fucker.....

TO BUSINESS_IDEAS@USA.NET:  HEY!!! ASSHOLE!!!!  HOW ABOUT YOU FORWARD
THIS "ABUSIVE" LANGUAGE TO YOUR FUCKING FBI AND "INTERPOL" YOU FUCKING
SHITHEAD!!!!!  IF I EVER SEE YOU ON THE STREET, MARK MY WORDS, YOU ARE A
DEAD MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


-----------------
Cory R. King

"As soon as men decide that all means are permitted to fight an evil,
then their good becomes indistinguishable from the evil that they set
out to destroy."
 - Christopher Dawson

-----Original Message-----
Received: from www.video-collage.com ([206.15.171.132]) by
dogbone.azalea.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service
Version 5.5.1960.3)
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(EDT)
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by cyberpass.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA07148 for
; Wed, 30 Sep 1998 09:08:07 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 09:08:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: 2001files@usa.net
Message-Id: <199809301608.JAA07148@cyberpass.net>
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Reply-To: business_ideas@usa.net
Subject: Increase Your Paycheck Next Week
Sender: owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Precedence: bulk
X-Mailing-List: cypherpunks@algebra.com
X-List-Admin: ichudov@algebra.com
X-Loop: cypherpunks@algebra.com


Would you like to get a pay raise next week without asking your boss?
Then this very special report, "Money Power," is for you!

[spam snip]

	World Net Press
	Dept. EN-930
	P.O. Box 96594
	Las Vegas, NV 89193-6594
	
[spam snip]


Please be advised we collect the e-mail addresses of all flamers,
hackers, and users of abusive and vulgar language.  We submit these
addresses to the FBI and Interpol on a monthly basis.  






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 06:35:05 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Democracy...
Message-ID: <199809301127.NAA08129@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I find that religion is one of the most detrimental forces to the
internet.  I believe that the internet is a very real chance to assert
self-rule.  A religious government would not allow that.  I might
worship false idols or something.  If government does start to favor
religious morals I hope it is voodoo!  That would at least add some
entertainment :)
==
"The same thing we do every night Pinkey,
 try to take over the WORLD!"
                          - The brain
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bruce Schneier 
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 14:24:58 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Announcement: A Self-Study Course in Block Cipher Cryptanalysis
Message-ID: <199809301907.OAA15179@mixer.visi.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Ever since writing Applied Cryptography, I have been asked to recommend a
book on cryptanalysis.  My unfortunate answer is that while there are
several good books on cryptography, there are no books, good or bad, on
cryptanalysis.

The only way to learn cryptanalysis is through practice.  A student simply
has to break algorithm after algorithm, inventing new techniques and
modifying existing ones.  Reading others' cryptanalysis results helps, but
there is no substitute for experience.

To help in getting this experience, I designed a self-study course in
block-cipher cryptanalysis.  With it, a student can follow an ordered path
through the academic literature and emerge out the other side fully capable
of breaking new algorithms and publishing new cryptanalytic results.

What I have done is to list published algorithms and published
cryptanalyses in a coherent order: by type of cryptanalysis and difficulty.
 A student's task is to read papers describing algorithms, and then attempt
to reproduce published cryptanalytic results.  (It is definitely more
difficult to learn cryptanalysis from academic papers than from a distilled
textbook, but the sooner a student gets used to reading academic papers the
better off he will be.)  The results, in other published papers, serve as
an "answer key."

The paper is available in both postscript and pdf formats at:

	http://www.counterpane.com/self-study.html

Comments are always appreciated.

Bruce
**********************************************************************
Bruce Schneier, President, Counterpane Systems     Phone: 612-823-1098
101 E Minnehaha Parkway, Minneapolis, MN  55419      Fax: 612-823-1590
           Free crypto newsletter.  See:  http://www.counterpane.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 13:23:42 +0800
To: cryptography@c2.net
Subject: [Fwd: EECS Colloquium Monday Oct 5]
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 13:28:45 -0400
From: Richard Lethin 
Organization: Reservoir Labs, Inc.
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: dcsb@ai.mit.edu
Subject: [Fwd: EECS Colloquium Monday Oct 5]
Sender: bounce-dcsb@ai.mit.edu
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: Richard Lethin 
Status: U



Return-Path: 
Received: from LCS.MIT.EDU (mintaka.lcs.mit.edu [18.26.0.36])
	by deer-park.reservoir.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA16438
	for ; Wed, 30 Sep 1998 11:34:14 -0400 (EDT)
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          30 Sep 98 11:30 EDT
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	id AA03777; Wed, 30 Sep 98 11:29:45 EDT
From: elias@theory.lcs.mit.edu (Peter Elias)
Received: by osprey.lcs.mit.edu (5.65c/TOC-1.2C)
	id AA00821; Wed, 30 Sep 98 11:29:47 EDT
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 98 11:29:47 EDT
Message-Id: <199809301529.AA00821@osprey.lcs.mit.edu>
To: eecsfaculty@eecs.mit.edu, seminars@lcs.mit.edu, ai-tech-sq@ai.mit.edu,
        joanne@theory.lcs.mit.edu, sgreen@ll.mit.edu, jsweeney@draper.com,
        kaths@lids.mit.edu, jc@cs.brandeis.edu, texasgal@mit.edu,
        bru@media.mit.edu, arthurs@mit.edu, dougross@mit.edu,
        finn@lids.mit.edu, roger@ipswitch.com
Subject: EECS Colloquium Monday Oct 5


Appended is the notice of an EECS Colloquium by Radia Perleman, on
Monday Oct. 5.  Please post and/or forward as appropriate.

Peter Elias
----------------------------------------------------------------------

			     MIT-EECS
			1998 Fall Semester
			 Colloquium Series


	       	  How to Misuse Good Cryptography
	       And Create Insecure Network Protocols

			  Radia Perlman
		  Boston Center for Networking
			SUN Microsystems



			     ABSTRACT


A common misconception is that security flaws involve abstruse
mathematical weaknesses in cryptographic algorithms. While it is
possible to have weak cryptographic algorithms, the world does not
need insecure cryptographic systems in order to design, build, and
deploy insecure network protocols.

This talk discusses example mistakes people have made when designing
or implementing network protocols. Examples include an e-mail standard
that allowed forging of signatures, a public key scheme less secure
than a secret key scheme, a system that thought encryption implied
integrity protection, and public key chain rules that are unworkable
in practice.


		          October 5, 1998
			        4-5 pm
		 Edgerton Hall, 34-101 (50 Vassar St)
		         Refreshments at 3:45


----------------------------------------------------------------------

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 14:29:47 +0800
To: 
Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A19284704@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 8:41 PM -0500 9/29/98, Matthew James Gering wrote:
>Jim Choate wrote:

>> Had Microsoft, for example, been required to publish their
>> API's by the market we wouldn't be spending all this effort
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>You state free-market and then you are *requiring* someone to do
>something? How do you resolve that contradiction? Require = Force !=
>Free[dom]

	Required as in purchasers large and small saying "You don't include
your source code, we won't buy it".

	Sort of like how restraunts are forced (usually) to provide
dinnerware, sure, they could MAKE you bring your own fork & plate, but they
wouldn't be too popular.

>As far as *commercial* software vendors go, Microsoft is one of the
>better companies for publishing APIs and creating useful APIs and tools
>for Rapid Application Development. Do you subscribe to MSDN? Please do
>before you crucify Microsoft for lack of APIs, if anything they have too
>many.

	"BETTER"?

	Remember "Undocumented Dos"?

	Wasn't there a (couple) windows versions?

	Microsoft sells/gives away it's API so that it can find competent
programmers to hire and lock away in tiny rooms.

--
petro@playboy.com----for work related issues. I don't speak for Playboy.
petro@bounty.org-----for everthing else.      They wouldn't like that.
                                              They REALLY
Economic speech IS political speech.          wouldn't like that.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 13:25:02 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: U.K. Hosts Bomb-Proof Computer Room
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 10:55:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: William Knowles 
To: DC-Stuff , Access All Areas 
cc: Digital Commerce Society of Boston 
Subject: U.K. Hosts Bomb-Proof Computer Room
Organization: Home for retired social engineers & unrepented cryptophreaks
MIME-Version: 1.0
Sender: bounce-dcsb@ai.mit.edu
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: William Knowles 

(Network Week) [9.30.98] Anyone worried about the security of
e-commerce might find a nuclear bomb-proof server room lightly
excessive, but that is exactly what British company AL Digital,
the company behind the Apache-SSL secure Web server, is offering.

AL Digital, based in London, is offering host servers at
The Bunker, an ex-military base that was formerly a key British
Ministry of Defense communications center. The company said the
facility had secure chambers buried deep underground and
communications capacity available on tap.

"We feel physical security is often overlooked," said AL
Digital director Adam Laurie. "Hacking and cracking are not
the major risks anymore because of strong encryption; where
you're vulnerable is at the physical point at which you
decrypt the data."

Laurie said the servers based at The Bunker would be protected
against electronic eavesdropping, physical intrusion, and
electromagnetic damage, as well as a nuclear strike.

"We could have built our own secure facility, but we heard
this was on the market," he added. He said it's as physically
robust as Telehouse, a high-security server-hosting facility in
Staten Island, N.Y., if not more so.


==
I regret to say that we of the FBI are powerless to act in
cases of oral-genital intimacy, unless it has in some way
obstructed interstate commerce. -- J. Edgar Hoover
==
http://www.dis.org/erehwon/



For help on using this list (especially unsubscribing), send a message to
"dcsb-request@ai.mit.edu" with one line of text: "help".

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mok-Kong Shen 
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 07:21:57 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: (fwd) Echelon
Message-ID: <36123036.40EE5E3@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



The following article came from Duncan Campbell 
through a mailing list:

__________________________________
21/9/98

The debate about ECHELON - last week in the European Parliament - has
again
highlighted the role of the NSA station at Menwith Hill, Yorkshire.  
The
report prepared earlier this year for the STOA (Scientific and Technical
Options Assessment) of the European Parliament resulted in widespread
coverage in Europe and the US.   

We have recently made a new batch of copies of the 1993 Dispatches
documentary on Menwith Hill - "The Hill" - based on revelations based on
NSA documents obtained by women peace protesters at the Hill.   It also
covers ECHELON and other NSA activities in the UK.   Tapes (45 mins) can
be
ordered from :

        Ian Hide 
        IPTV Ltd
        1 Meadowbank
        Edinburgh EH8 8JE

At Ł10.95 including postage.

I will e-mail trancripts of the programme free of charge to anyone
requesting it.

Duncan Campbell




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 16:39:18 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Big Brother Is Monitoring Us by Databases - Sept. PSR - Part 1
Message-ID: <199809302133.OAA25653@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
Subject: IP: Big Brother Is Monitoring Us by Databases - Sept. PSR - Part 1
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 17:28:57 -0500
To: PSR@eagleforum.org

	PHYLLIS SCHLAFLY REPORT   
						September 1998

          Big Brother Is Monitoring Us by Databases 
   
 The hottest issue in America today is our discovery that the Federal
 Government is trying to tag, track and monitor our health care
 records through national databases and personal identification
 numbers. This is a priority election issue, and every Congressional
 and Senatorial candidate should be ready to answer questions from
 his constituents. 

 Americans are accustomed to enjoying the freedom to go about our
 daily lives without telling government what we are doing. The idea of
 having Big Brother monitor our life and activities, as forecast in
 George Orwell's great book 1984, is not acceptable in America. 

 Unfortunately, the liberals, who always seek control over how we live
 our lives and how we spend our money, are using terrorists,
 criminals, illegal aliens, welfare cheats, and deadbeat dads as
 excuses to impose oppressive government surveillance over our
 private lives. It is typical of the liberals to go after law-abiding citizens
 rather than just the law-violators. 

 Modern technology has made it possible to build a file on every
 American, and to record and track our comings and goings.
 Computers can now collect and store immense databases, with
 detailed records about individual Americans' health status and
 treatment, job status and applications, automobiles and driving,
 financial transactions, credit, banking, school and college
 performance, and travels within and without the country. 

 In the novel 1984, an omnipresent Big Brother watched every citizen
 at home and work from a giant television screen. Databases can now
 accomplish the same surveillance and tracking much more
 efficiently. In the novel 1984, Big Brother was able to read the
 individual's secret diary hidden in his home. The Clinton
 Administration and the FBI are right now demanding the right to read
 our e-mail and computer files, listen in on our phone conversations,
 and track the whereabouts of our cell phone calls. 

 Some of these databases are under the direct control of the
 government (e.g., Internal Revenue, Social Security, and the
 Department of Education, which has amassed 15 national
 databases), and some are privately owned but give access to the
 government. These databases convey enormous power to whoever
 controls them. In government hands, they are the power to control
 our very life, our health care, our access to a job, our financial
 transactions, and our entry to school and college. In private hands,
 these databases are immensely profitable to the companies that own
 them and market them for commercial purposes. 

 The Clinton Administration, Congress, big corporations that funnel
 million of dollars of soft money into political coffers, and some
 powerful foundations have cooperated in seeking federal legislation to
 establish a property right in these databases. So much power and
 money are involved in accessing and controlling personal information
 that the Washington lobbyists are moving rapidly to lock in the
 extraordinary powers Congress has already conferred on those who
 build databases and to build a wall of federal protection around them. 

 If we want to preserve American freedom, it's time to stop government
 access to these databases. Let's look at some of the ways that
 Clinton and Congress have cooperated in the building of databases
 that tag, track and monitor our daily lives. 

    1.The 1996 Kennedy-Kassebaum law (the Health Insurance
      Portability and Accountability Act) gives the Department of
      Health and Human Services (HHS) the power to create
      "unique health care identifiers" so that government can
      electronically tag, track and monitor every citizen's personal
      medical records. The plan is that everyone must submit an
      identification document with a unique number in order to
      receive health care, or the provider will not be paid. A
      database containing every American's medical records,
      identified by a unique number, was a central feature of
      Clinton's defeated 1994 health care bill, but it reemerged in the
      Kennedy-Kassebaum bill. Bill Clinton, Ted Kennedy, and Bob
      Dole all bragged about passing this law. 

    2.H.R. 4250, the 1998 Patient Protection Act, passed by the
      House on July 24, 1998, will allow anyone who maintains
      personal medical records to gather, exchange and distribute
      them. The only condition on distribution is that the information
      be used for "health care operations," which is vague and
      meaningless. 

      Even worse, H.R. 4250 preempts state laws that currently
      protect patients from unauthorized distribution of their medical
      records. There are several exemptions to the gathering of
      information that reveal the liberal bias of the drafters of this bill:
      The bill exempts from the gathering of medical records any
      information about abortions performed on minors. That
      provision is a sure sign of the kind of control of health care
      that this bill opens up. 

    3.The Collections of Information Antipiracy Act (which
      originally had another number) was added (just before House
      passage) to H.R. 2281, the 1998 WIPO Copyright Treaties
      Implementation Act and the Internet Copyright Infringement
      Liability Clarification Act. No one, of course, is in favor of
      "piracy," but this bill goes far beyond any reasonable definition
      of piracy. 

      This Collections of Information bill, in effect, creates a new
      federal property right to own, manage and control personal
      information about you, including your name, address,
      telephone number, medical records, and "any other intangible
      material capable of being collected and organized in a
      systematic way." This bill provides a powerful incentive for
      corporations to build nationwide databases of the personal
      medical information envisioned by the Kennedy-Kassebaum
      law and the Patient Protection bill. This bill will encourage
      health care corporations to assign a unique national health
      identifier to each patient. The government can then simply
      agree to use a privately-assigned national identifier, and
      Clinton's longtime goal of government control of health care
      will be achieved. 

      Under the Collections of Information bill, any information about
      you can be owned and controlled by others under protection of
      Federal law. Your medical chart detailing your visits to your
      doctor, for example, would suddenly become the federally
      protected property of other persons or corporations, and their
      rights would be protected by Federal police power. This bill
      creates a new Federal crime that penalizes a first offense by a
      fine of up to $250,000 or imprisonment for up to five years, or
      both, for interfering with this new property right. It even
      authorizes Federal judges to order seizure of property before a
      finding of wrongdoing. 

      H.R. 2281 grants these new Federal rights only to private
      databases, and pretends to exclude the government's own
      efforts to collect information about citizens. But a loophole in
      the bill permits private firms to share their federally protected
      data with the government so long as the information is not
      collected under a specific government agency or license
      agreement. This loophole will encourage corporations,
      foundations, Washington insiders and political donors to build
      massive databases of citizens' medical and other personal
      records, and then share that data with the government. 

    4.The 1993 Comprehensive Child Immunization Act
      authorized the Department of Health and Human Services "to
      establish state registry systems to monitor the immunization
      status of all children." HHS and the Robert Wood Johnson
      Foundation have since sent hundreds of millions of dollars to
      states to set up these databases (often without parental
      knowledge or consent). 

      The Centers for Disease Control (CDC) is aggressively trying
      to convert these state databases into a national database of
      all children's medical records. The CDC is using the tracking
      of immunizations as a ruse to build a national patient
      information system. The government is already demanding
      that all newborns and all children who enter school be given
      the controversial Hepatitis B vaccine. This is just the start of
      government control of our health care made possible by
      databases of medical records. 

    5.The 1996 Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant
      Responsibility Act (especially Section 656(b)) prohibits the
      use of state driver's licenses after Oct. 1, 2000 unless they
      contain Social Security numbers as the unique numeric
      identifier "that can be read visually or by electronic means."
      The act requires all driver's licenses to conform to regulations
      promulgated by the Secretary of Transportation, and it is
      clearly an attempt to convert driver's licenses into national I.D.
      Cards. This law also orders the Transportation Department to
      engage in "consultation" with the American Association of
      Motor Vehicle Administrators, which has long urged using
      driver's licenses, with Social Security numbers and digital
      fingerprinting, as a de facto national ID card that would enable
      the government to track everyone's movements throughout
      North America. 

      When Social Security was started, the government made a
      contract with the American people that the Social Security
      number would never be used for identification. Call this another
      broken promise. 

      Meanwhile, many states are already trying to legislate driver's
      licenses that are actually a "smart card" with a magnetic strip
      that contains a digitized fingerprint, retina scan, DNA print,
      voice print, or other biometric identifiers. These smart cards
      will leave an electronic trail every time you use it. New
      Jersey's proposed smart card would even track your payment
      of bridge and highway tolls and loans of books from the library,
      as well as credit card purchases and visits to your doctor. 

    6.The 1996 Welfare Reform Act (the Personal Responsibility
      and Work Opportunity Reform Act) sets up the Directory of
      New Hires. All employers are now required to send the
      government the name, address and Social Security number of
      every new worker and every employee who is promoted. This
      will eventually be a massive database, tracking nearly every
      worker in America. 

    7.Public-private partnerships. An example of how databases
      and copyrights, in partnerships with the government, can be
      used for private gain and control over millions of people is the
      way the American Medical Association (AMA) worked out an
      exclusive contract with the Health Care Financing
      Administration (HCFA), a division of the Department of Health
      and Human Services (HHS). The AMA developed and
      copyrighted a database of 6,000 medical procedures and
      treatments to use as a billing system. The AMA then
      contracted with HCFA to force the entire health care industry
      (including all doctors) to buy and use the AMA's system. 

 A federal Court of Appeals reviewed this peculiar AMA/HCFA
 arrangement and, in August 1997, held that the AMA had "misused
 its copyright by licensing the [payment coding system] to HCFA in
 exchange for HCFA's agreement not to use a competing coding
 system." The court stated, "The plain language of the AMA's
 licensing agreement requires HCFA to use the AMA's copyrighted
 coding system and prohibits HCFA from using any other." 

 This exclusive government-granted monopoly is worth tens of millions
 of dollars annually to the AMA, and it ensures the AMA's support of
 any Clinton health care proposal, no matter how socialistic. This type
 of public-private partnership, often concealed from public scrutiny, is
 becoming the preferred technique to advance the liberal agenda. 

 The American people do not want their private life and activities
 monitored by Big Brother. Tell your Congressman and Senator to
 repeal all these provisions which protect the building of databases
 that track our daily activities. 

	------------------------------------

To read the entire September 98 PSR go to:
http://www.eagleforum.org/psr/1998/sept98/psrsept98.html

	------------------------------------

The "Dirty Dozen" . . .   Here are the 12
Republicans who voted to uphold Clinton's veto of
the partial-birth abortion ban.
http://www.eagleforum.org/alert/98-09-22/dirty_dozen.html

	------------------------------------

	JOIN EAGLE FORUM!
To receive the Phyllis Schlafly Report  HARDCOPY 
	-- Subscription: $20 per year 

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 16:40:36 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: FW: Release: seizing money
Message-ID: <199809302133.OAA25664@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: "mcdonald" 
Subject: IP: FW: Release: seizing money
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 07:15:31 -0500
To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com


-----Original Message-----
From: beasley@ro.com [mailto:beasley@ro.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 1998 11:06 PM
To: mcdonalds@airnet.net
Cc: gs924jfj@mon-cre.net; patriot@vallnet.com; Jeff.Ballard@vmic.com
Subject: FWD: Release: seizing money


From: announce@lp.org
Subject: Release: seizing money
Sender: announce-request@lp.org
Reply-To: announce@lp.org
To: announce@lp.org (Libertarian Party announcements)
X-Mailer: mailout v1.26 released with lsendfix 1.8


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

=======================================
NEWS FROM THE LIBERTARIAN PARTY
2600 Virginia Avenue, NW, Suite 100
Washington DC 20037
=======================================
For release: September 29, 1998
=======================================
For additional information:
George Getz, Press Secretary
Phone: (202) 333-0008 Ext. 222
E-Mail: 76214.3676@Compuserve.com
=======================================


New bill will allow police to "steal cash"
from travelers, warns Libertarian Party

        WASHINGTON, DC -- It may soon be a crime to get on a plane or
drive down the highway in America with too much money, the Libertarian
Party warned today.

        That's because a bill before the Senate Judiciary Committee
would allow police to assume that anyone traveling with more than
$10,000 in cash in so-called "drug transit areas" is a drug dealer --
and confiscate all their money.

        "Tourists and business travelers, take note: You may soon have
to fear being mugged by your own government," warned Steve Dasbach,
Libertarian Party national director.

        "Your government wants the power to label you a criminal and
seize all your money with no proof that you've committed a crime. In
other words, your government is about to give police a license to
steal."

        The bill in question -- the Drug Currency Forfeitures Act -- is
sponsored by Senators Max Cleland (D-GA) and Charles Grassley (R-IA).
The senators say their bill is designed to "hit drug dealers where it
hurts the most: In the wallet."

        The bill allows police to seize cash from any American
traveling through a drug transit area -- defined as an airport,
highway, or port of entry -- and would force citizens to go to court to
try to get the money back.

        "Accusations without proof? Punishments without trials? Welcome
to America in 1998," said Dasbach. "With this bill, two U.S. Senators
want to gut the Constitution -- and strip away fundamental rights like
the presumption of innocence and the right to carry money without
having to explain your actions to the government."

        One of the most repugnant provisions of the bill, Dasbach said,
is that people who want their money back will face a "rebuttable
presumption" of guilt. In other words, they most prove they are
innocent.

        "Senator Cleland complained that courts frequently throw out
money-laundering cases for lack of evidence, so his innovative solution
was to stop requiring evidence -- and simply allow police to steal your
money," Dasbach said. "Instead of the government proving that you are
guilty, you must prove that you are innocent."

        But why would anyone carry around $10,000 in cash, if they're
not a drug dealer?

        "It's none of the government's business -- period," Dasbach
said. "The idea that any American should have to explain to the police
where their money came from is offensive, and the idea that the police
can pocket your money if they don't like your answers is downright
criminal."

        In previous well-documented cases, he noted, the government has
seized money from a business traveler who had planned major cash
purchases for his company, and from a foreign-born American who was
bringing cash to relatives in another country. In both cases, the
courts ruled that the seizure was improper, and the victims got most of
their money back from the government.

        This bill would reverse those kinds of cases, Dasbach
predicted, by essentially creating a new type of crime: Driving While
Rich and Flying While Affluent -- all in the name of the War on Drugs.

        "What the Drug Currency Forfeitures Act really shows is that
once again, the War on Drugs has become an all-purpose excuse for a War
on Your Rights, such as the right to a fair trial and the right to get
on an airplane or drive down the highway without having to explain
yourself to a policeman," Dasbach said. "If Americans don't put a stop
to this, the politicians will not only steal all our money -- they will
also steal all our Constitutional rights."


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The Libertarian Party                         http://www.lp.org/
2600 Virginia Ave. NW, Suite 100             voice: 202-333-0008
Washington DC 20037                            fax: 202-333-0072






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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 16:40:11 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: The Great Superterrorism Scare
Message-ID: <199809302133.OAA25675@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: The Great Superterrorism Scare
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 09:03:50 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Forwarded:
----------------------
Subject: The Great Superterrorism Scare 
From: RoadsEnd@AOL.COM - Sept. 29, 1998 (Thanks for all your research)
      http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/2807/

The Great Superterrorism Scare
http://www.jya.com/superterror.htm

28 September 1998 - Source: Foreign Policy, Fall, 1998, pp. 110-124. 
Thanks to the author and Foreign Policy. http://www.foreignpolicy.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Great Superterrorism Scare - http://www.jya.com/superterror.htm

by Ehud Sprinzak

     EHUD SPRINZAK is professor of political science at Hebrew
     University of Jerusalem. This article was written under the
     auspices of the United States Institute of Peace where he spent
     the last year as a senior scholar with the Jennings Randolph
     program.

Last March, representatives from more than a dozen U.S. federal agencies
gathered at the White House for a secret simulation to test their readiness
to confront a new kind of terrorism. Details of the scenario unfolded a
month later on the front page of the New York Times: Without warning,
thousands across the American Southwest fall deathly ill. Hospitals
struggle to rush trained and immunized medical personnel into crisis areas.
Panic spreads as vaccines and antibiotics run short--and then run out. The
killer is a hybrid of smallpox and the deadly Marburg virus, genetically
engineered and let loose by terrorists to infect hundreds of thousands
along the Mexican-American border.

This apocalyptic tale represents Washington's newest nightmare: the threat
of a massive terrorist attack with chemical, biological, or nuclear
weapons. Three recent events seem to have convinced the policymaking elite
and the general public that a disaster is imminent: the 1995 nerve gas
attack on a crowded Tokyo subway station by the Japanese millenarian cult
Aum Shinrikyo; the disclosure of alarming new information about the former
Soviet Union's massive biowarfare program; and disturbing discoveries about
the extent of Iraqi president Saddam Hussein's hidden chemical and
biological arsenals. Defense Secretary William Cohen summed up well the
prevailing mood surrounding mass-destruction terrorism: "The question is no
longer if this will happen, but when."

Such dire forecasts may make for gripping press briefings, movies, and
bestsellers, but they do not necessarily make for good policy. As an
unprecedented fear of mass-destruction terrorism spreads throughout the
American security establishment, governments worldwide are devoting more
attention to the threat. But as horrifying as this prospect may be, the
relatively low risks of such an event do not justify the high costs now
being contemplated to defend against it. Not only are many of the
countermeasures likely to be ineffective, but the level of rhetoric and
funding devoted to fighting superterrorism may actually advance a potential
superterrorist's broader goals: sapping the resources of the state and
creating a climate of panic and fear that can amplify the impact of any
terrorist act.

CAPABILITIES AND CHAOS

Since the Clinton administration issued its Presidential Decision Directive
on terrorism in June 1995, U.S. federal, state, and local governments have
heightened their efforts to prevent or respond to a terrorist attack
involving weapons of mass destruction. A report issued in December 1997 by
the National Defense Panel, a commission of experts created by
congressional mandate, calls upon the army to shift its priorities and
prepare to confront dire domestic threats. The National Guard and the U.S.
Army Reserve must be ready, for example, to "train local authorities in
chemical- and biological-weapons detection, defense, and decontamination;
assist in casualty treatment and evacuation; quarantine, if necessary,
affected areas and people; and assist in restoration of infrastructure and
services." In May, the Department of Defense announced plans to train
National Guard and reserve elements in every region of the country to carry
out these directives.

In his 1998 State of the Union address, President Bill Clinton promised to
address the dangers of biological weapons obtained by "outlaw states,
terrorists, and organized criminals." Indeed, the president's budget for
1999, pending congressional approval, devotes hundreds of millions of
dollars to superterrorism response and recovery programs, including large
decontamination units, stockpiles of vaccines and antibiotics, improved
means of detecting chemical and biological agents and analyzing disease
outbreaks, and training for special intervention forces. The FBI, Pentagon,
State Department, and U.S. Health and Human Services Department will
benefit from these funds, as will a plethora of new interagency bodies
established to coordinate these efforts. Local governments are also joining
in the campaign. Last April, New York City officials began monitoring
emergency room care in search of illness patterns that might indicate a
biological or chemical attack had occurred. The city also brokered deals
with drug companies and hospitals to ensure an adequate supply of medicine
in the event of such an attack. Atlanta, Denver, Los Angeles, San
Francisco, and Washington are developing similar programs with state and
local funds. If the proliferation of counterterrorism programs continues at
its present pace, and if the U.S. army is indeed redeployed to the home
front, as suggested by the National Defense Panel, the bill for these
preparations could add up to tens of billions of dollars in the coming
decades.

Why have terrorism specialists and top government officials become so
obsessed with the prospect that terrorists, foreign or homegrown, will soon
attempt to bring about an unprecedented disaster in the United States? A
close examination of their rhetoric reveals two underlying assumptions:

The Capabilities Proposition. According to this logic, anyone with access
to modem biochemical technology and a college science education could
produce enough chemical or biological agents in his or her basement to
devastate the population of London, Tokyo, or Washington. The raw materials
are readily available from medical suppliers, germ banks, university labs,
chemical-fertilizer stores, and even ordinary pharmacies. Most policy today
proceeds from this assumption.

The Chaos Proposition. The post-Cold War world swarms with shadowy
extremist groups, religious fanatics, and assorted crazies eager to launch
a major attack on the civilized world--preferably on U.S. territory. Walter
Laqueur, terrorism's leading historian, recently wrote that "scanning the
contemporary scene, one encounters a bewildering multiplicity of terrorist
and potentially terrorist groups and sects." Senator Richard Lugar agrees:
"fanatics, small disaffected groups and subnational factions who hold
various grievances against governments, or against society, all have
increasing access to, and knowledge about the construction of, weapons of
mass destruction.... Such individuals are not likely to he deterred . . .
by the classical threat of overwhelming retaliation."

There is, however, a problem with this two-part logic. Although the
capabilities proposition is largely valid--albeit for the limited number of
terrorists who can overcome production and handling risks and develop an
efficient means of dispersal--the chaos proposition is utterly false.
Despite the lurid rhetoric, a massive terrorist attack with nuclear,
chemical, or biological weapons is hardly inevitable. It is not even
likely. Thirty years of field research have taught observers of terrorism a
most important lesson: Terrorists wish to convince us that they are capable
of striking from anywhere at anytime, but there really is no chaos. In
fact, terrorism involves predictable behavior, and the vast majority of
terrorist organizations can be identified well in advance.

Most terrorists possess political objectives, whether Basque independence,
Kashmiri separatism, or Palestinian Marxism. Neither crazy nor stupid, they
strive to gain sympathy from a large audience and wish to live after
carrying out any terrorist act to benefit from it politically. As terrorism
expert Brian Jenkins has remarked, terrorists want lots of people watching,
not lots of people dead. Furthermore, no terrorist becomes a terrorist
overnight. A lengthy trajectory of radicalization and low-level violence
precedes the killing of civilians. A terrorist becomes mentally ready to
use lethal weapons against civilians only over time and only after he or
she has managed to dehumanize the enemy. From the Baader-Meinhoff group in
Germany and the Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka to Hamas and Hizballah in the
Middle East, these features are universal.

Finally, with rare exceptions--such as the Unabomber--terrorism is a group
phenomenon. Radical organizations are vulnerable to early detection through
their disseminated ideologies, lesser illegal activities, and public
statements of intent. Some even publish their own World Wide Web sites.
Since the 1960s, the vast majority of terrorist groups have made clear
their aggressive intentions long before following through with violence.

We can draw three broad conclusions from these findings. First, terrorists
who threaten to kill thousands of civilians are aware that their chances
for political and physical survival are exceedingly slim. Their prospects
for winning public sympathy are even slimmer. Second, terrorists take time
to become dangerous, particularly to harden themselves sufficiently to use
weapons of mass destruction. Third, the number of potential suspects is
significantly less than doomsayers would have us believe. Ample early
warning signs should make effective interdiction of potential
superterrorists easier than today's overheated rhetoric suggests.

THE WORLD'S MOST WANTED

Who, then, is most likely to attempt a superterrorist attack? Historical
evidence and today's best field research suggest three potential profiles:

   * Religious millenarian cults, such as Japan's Aum Shinrikyo, that
     possess a sense of immense persecution and messianic frenzy and hold
     faith in salvation via Armageddon. Most known religious cults do not
     belong here. Millenarian cults generally seclude themselves and wait
     for salvation; they do not strike out against others. Those groups
     that do take action more often fit the mold of California's Heaven's
     Gate, or France's Order of the Solar Temple, seeking salvation through
     group suicide rather than massive violence against outsiders.

   * Brutalized groups that either burn with revenge following a genocide
     against their nation or face the prospect of imminent destruction
     without any hope for collective recovery. The combination of
     unrestrained anger and total powerlessness may lead such groups to
     believe that their only option is to exact a horrendous price for
     their loss. "The Avengers," a group of 50 young Jews who fought the
     Nazis as partisans during World War II, exemplifies the case.
     Organized in Poland in 1945, the small organization planned to poison
     the water supply of four German cities to avenge the Holocaust.
     Technical problems foiled their plan, but a small contingent still
     succeeded in poisoning the food of more than 2,000 former SS storm
     troopers held in prison near Nuremberg.

   * Small terrorist cells or socially deranged groups whose alienated
     members despise society, lack realistic political goals, and may
     miscalculate the consequences of developing and using chemical or
     biological agents. Although such groups, or even individual "loners,"
     cannot be totally dismissed, it is doubtful that they will possess the
     technical capabilities to produce mass destruction.

Groups such as Hamas, Hizballah, and Islamic Jihad, which so many Americans
love to revile--and fear--do not make the list of potential
superterrorists. These organizations and their state sponsors may loathe
the Great Satan, but they also wish to survive and prosper politically.
Their leaders, most of whom are smarter than the Western media implies,
understand that a Hiroshima-like disaster would effectively mean the end of
their movements.

Only two groups have come close to producing a superterrorism catastrophe:
Aum Shinrikyo and the white supremacist and millenarian American Covenant,
the Sword and the Arm of the Lord, whose chemical-weapons stockpile was
seized by the FBI in 1985 as they prepared to hasten the coming of the
Messiah by poisoning the water supplies of several U.S. cities. Only Aum
Shinrikyo fully developed both the capabilities and the intent to take tens
of thousands of lives. However, this case is significant not only because
the group epitomizes the kind of organizations that may resort to
superterrorism in the future, but also because Aum's fate illustrates how
groups of this nature can be identified and their efforts preempted.

Although it comes as no comfort to the 12 people who died in Aum
Shinrikyo's attack, the cult's act of notoriety represents first and
foremost a colossal Japanese security blunder. Until Japanese police
arrested its leaders in May 1995, Aum Shinrikyo had neither gone
underground nor concealed its intentions. Cult leader Shoko Asahara had
written since the mid-1980s of an impending cosmic cataclysm. By 1995, when
Russian authorities curtailed the cult's activities in that country, Aum
Shinrikyo had established a significant presence in the former Soviet
Union, accessed the vibrant Russian black market to obtain various
materials, and procured the formulae for chemical agents. In Japan, Asahara
methodically recruited chemical engineers, physicists, and biologists who
conducted extensive chemical and biological experiments in their lab and on
the Japanese public. Between 1990 and 1994, the cult tried six
times--unsuccessfully--to execute biological-weapons attacks, first with
botulism and then with anthrax. In June 1994, still a year before the
subway gas attack that brought them world recognition, two sect members
released sarin gas near the judicial building in the city of Matsumoto,
killing seven people and injuring 150, including three judges.

In the years preceding the Tokyo attack, at least one major news source
provided indications of Aum Shinrikyo's proclivity toward violence. In
October 1989, the Sunday Mainichi magazine began a seven-part series on the
cult that showed it regularly practiced a severe form of coercion on
members and recruits. Following the November 1989 disappearance of a
lawyer, along with his family, who was pursuing criminal action against the
cult on behalf of former members, the magazine published a follow-up
article. Because of Japan's hypersensitivity to religious freedom, lack of
chemical- and biological-terrorism precedents, and low-quality domestic
intelligence, the authorities failed to prevent the Tokyo attack despite
these ample warning signs.

ANATOMY OF AN OBSESSION

lf a close examination reveals that the chances of a successful
superterrorist attack are minimal, why are so many people so worried? There
are three major explanations:

Sloppy Thinking

Most people fail to distinguish among the four different types of
terrorism: mass-casualty terrorism, state-sponsored chemical- or
biological-weapons (CBW) terrorism, small-scale chemical or biological
terrorist attacks, and superterrorism. Pan Am 103, Oklahoma City, and the
World Trade Center are all examples of conventional terrorism designed to
kill a large number of civilians. The threat that a "rogue state," a
country hostile to the West, will provide terrorist groups with the funds
and expertise to launch a chemical or biological attack falls into another
category: state-sponsored CBW terrorism. The use of chemical or biological
weapons for a small-scale terrorist attack is a third distinct category.
Superterrorism--the strategic use of chemical or biological agents to bring
about a major disaster with death tolls ranging in the tens or hundreds of
thousands--must be distinguished from all of these as a separate threat.

Today's prophets of doom blur the lines between these four distinct
categories of terrorism. The world, according to their logic, is
increasingly saturated with weapons of mass destruction and with terrorists
seeking to use them, a volatile combination that will inevitably let the
superterrorism genie out of the bottle. Never mind that the only place
where these different types of terrorism are lumped together is on
television talk shows and in sensationalist headlines.

In truth, the four types of terrorism are causally unrelated. Neither
Saddam Hussein's hidden bombs nor Russia's massive stockpiles of pathogens
necessarily bring a superterrorist attack on the West any closer. Nor do
the mass-casualty crimes of Timothy McVeigh in Oklahoma City or the World
Trade Center bombing. The issue is not CBW quantities or capabilities but
rather group mentality and psychological motivations. In the final
analysis, only a rare, extremist mindset completely devoid of political and
moral considerations will consider launching such an attack.

Vested Interests

The threat of superterrorism is likely to make a few defense contractors
very rich and a larger number of specialists moderately rich as well as
famous. Last year, Canadian-based Dycor Industrial Research Ltd. unveiled
the CB Sentry, a commercially available monitoring system designed to
detect contaminants in the air, including poison gas. Dycor announced plans
to market the system for environmental and antiterrorist applications. As
founder and president Hank Mottl explained in a press conference, "Dycor is
sitting on the threshold of a multi-billion dollar world market." In
August, a New York Times story on the Clinton administration's plans to
stockpile vaccines around the country for civilian protection noted that
two members of a scientific advisory panel that endorsed the plan
potentially stood to gain financially from its implementation. William
Crowe, former chair of the joint chiefs of staff, is also bullish on the
counterterrorism market. He is on the board of an investment firm that
recently purchased Michigan Biologic Products Institute, the sole maker of
an anthrax vaccine. The lab has already secured a Pentagon contract and
expects buyers from around the world to follow suit. As for the expected
bonanza for terrorism specialists, consultant Larry Johnson remarked last
year to U.S. News & World Report, "It's the latest gravy train."

Within the U.S. government, National Security Council experts, newly
created army and police intervention forces, an assortment of energy and
public-health units and officials, and a significant number of new
Department of Defense agencies specializing in unconventional terrorism
will benefit from the counterterrorism obsession and megabudgets in the
years ahead. According to a September 1997 report by the General Accounting
office, more than 40 federal agencies have been involved already in
combating terrorism. It may yet be premature to announce the rise of a new
"military-scientific-industrial complex," but some promoters of the
superterrorism scare seem to present themselves as part of a coordinated
effort to save civilization from the greatest threat of the twenty-first
century.

Morbid Fascination

Suspense writers, publishers, television networks, and sensationalist
journalists have already cashed in on the superterrorism craze. Clinton
aides told the New York Times that the president was so alarmed by
journalist Richard Preston's depiction of a superterrorist attack in his
novel The Cobra Event that he passed the book to intelligence analysts and
House Speaker Newt Gingrich for review. But even as media outlets spin the
new frenzy out of personal and financial interests, they also respond to
the deep psychological needs of a huge audience. People love to be
horrified. In the end, however, the tax-paying public is likely to be the
biggest loser of the present scare campaign. All terrorists--even those who
would never consider a CBW attack--benefit from such heightened attention
and fear.

COUNTERTERRORISM ON A SHOESTRING

There is, in fact, a growing interest in chemical and biological weapons
among terrorist and insurgent organizations worldwide for small-scale,
tactical attacks. As far back as 1975, the Symbionese Liberation Army
obtained instructions on the development of germ warfare agents to enhance
their "guerrilla" actions. More recently, in 1995, four members of the
Minnesota Patriots Council, an antitax group that rejected all forms of
authority higher than the state level, were convicted of possession of a
biological agent for use as a weapon. Prosecutors contended that the men
conspired to murder various federal and county officials with a supply of
the lethal toxin ricin they had developed with the aid of an instruction
kit purchased through a right-wing publication. The flourishing mystique of
chemical and biological weapons suggests that angry and alienated groups
are likely to manipulate them for conventional political purposes. And
indeed, the number of CBW threats investigated by the FBI is increasing
steadily. But the use of such weapons merely to enhance conventional
terrorism should not prove excessively costly to counter.

The debate boils down to money. If the probability of a large-scale attack
is extremely small, fewer financial resources should be committed to
recovering from it. Money should be allocated instead to early warning
systems and preemption of tactical chemical and biological terrorism. The
security package below stresses low-cost intelligence, consequence
management and research, and a no-cost, prudent counterterrorism policy.
Although tailored to the United States, this program could form the basis
for policy in other countries as well:

   * International deterrence. The potential use of chemical and biological
     weapons for enhanced conventional terrorism, and the limited risk of
     escalation to superterrorism, call for a reexamination of the existing
     U.S. deterrence doctrine--especially of the evidence required for
     retaliation against states that sponsor terrorism. The United States
     must relay a stern, yet discreet message to states that continue to
     support terrorist organizations or that disregard the presence of
     loosely affiliated terrorists within their territory: They bear direct
     and full responsibility for any future CBW attack on American targets
     by the organizations they sponsor or shelter. They must know that any
     use of weapons of mass destruction by their clients against the United
     States will constitute just cause for massive retaliation against
     their countries, whether or not evidence proves for certain that they
     ordered the attack.

   * Domestic deterrence. There is no question that the potential use of
     chemical and biological weapons for low-level domestic terrorism adds
     a new and dangerous dimension to conventional terrorism. There is
     consequently an urgent need to create a culture of domestic deterrence
     against the nonscientific use of chemical and biological agents. The
     most important task must be accomplished through legislation. Congress
     should tighten existing legislation against domestic production and
     distribution of biological, chemical, and radiological agents and
     devices.

     The Anti-Terrorism Act of 1996 enlarged the federal criminal code to
     include within its scope a prohibition on any attempts, threats, and
     conspiracies to acquire or use biological agents, chemical agents, and
     toxins. It also further redefined the terms "biological agent" and
     "toxin" to cover a number of products that may be bioengineered into
     threatening agents. However, the legislation still includes the
     onerous burden of proving that these agents were developed for use as
     weapons. Take the case of Larry Wayne Harris, an Ohio man arrested in
     January by the FBI for procuring anthrax cultures from an unknown
     source. Harris successfully defended his innocence by insisting that
     he obtained the anthrax spores merely to experiment with vaccines. He
     required no special permit or license to procure toxins that could be
     developed into deadly agents. The FBI and local law enforcement
     agencies should be given the requisite authority to enforce existing
     laws as well as to act in cases of clear and present CBW danger, even
     if the groups involved have not yet shown criminal intent. The
     regulations regarding who is allowed to purchase potentially
     threatening agents should also be strengthened.

     A campaign of public education detailing the dangers and illegality of
     nonscientific experimentation in chemical and biological agents would
     also be productive. This effort should include, for example, clear and
     stringent university policies regulating the use of school
     laboratories and a responsible public ad campaign explaining the
     serious nature of this crime. A clear presentation of the new threat
     as another type of conventional terrorism would alert the public to
     groups and individuals who experiment illegitimately with chemical and
     biological substances and would reduce CBW terrorism hysteria.

   * Better Intelligence. As is currently the case, the intelligence
     community should naturally assume the most significant role in any
     productive campaign to stop chemical and biological terrorism.
     However, new early warning CBW indicators that focus on radical group
     behavior are urgently needed. Analysts should be able to reduce
     substantially the risk of a CBW attack if they monitor group
     radicalization as expressed in its rhetoric, extralegal operations,
     low-level violence, growing sense of collective paranoia, and early
     experimentation with chemical or biological substances. Proper CBW
     intelligence must be freed from the burden of proving criminal intent.

   * Smart and compact consequence management teams. The threat of
     conventional CBW terrorism requires neither massive preparations nor
     large intervention forces. It calls for neither costly new
     technologies nor a growing number of interagency coordinating bodies.
     The decision to form and train joint-response teams in major U.S.
     cities, prompted by the 1995 Presidential Decision Directive on
     terrorism, will be productive if the teams are kept within proper
     proportions. The ideal team would be streamlined so as to minimize the
     interagency rivalry that has tended to make these teams grow in size
     and complexity. In addition to FBI agents, specially trained local
     police, detection and decontamination experts, and public-health
     specialists, these compact units should include psychologists and
     public-relations experts trained in reducing public hysteria.

   * Psychopolitical research. The most neglected means of countering CBW
     terrorism is psychopolitical research. Terrorism scholars and U.S.
     intelligence agencies have thus far failed to discern the
     psychological mechanisms that may compel terrorists to contemplate
     seriously the use of weapons of mass destruction. Systematic group and
     individual profiling for predictive purposes is almost unknown.
     Whether in Europe, Latin America, the Middle East, or the United
     States, numerous former terrorists and members of radical
     organizations are believed to have considered and rejected the use of
     weapons of mass destruction. To help us understand better the
     considerations involved in the use or non-use of chemical and
     biological weapons, well-trained psychologists and terrorism
     researchers should conduct a three-year, low-cost, comprehensive
     project of interviewing these former radicals.

   * Reducing unnecessary superterrorism rhetoric. Although there is no way
     to censor the discussion of mass-destruction terrorism, President
     Clinton, his secretaries, elected politicians at all levels,
     responsible government officials, writers, and journalists must tone
     down the rhetoric feeding today's superterrorism frenzy.

There is neither empirical evidence nor logical support for the growing
belief that a new "postmodem" age of terrorism is about to dawn, an era
afflicted by a large number of anonymous mass murderers toting chemical and
biological weapons. The true threat of superterrorism will not likely come
in the form of a Hiroshima-like disaster but rather as a widespread panic
caused by a relatively small CBW incident involving a few dozen fatalities.
Terrorism, we must remember, is not about killing. It is a form of
psychological warfare in which the killing of a small number of people
convinces the rest of us that we are next in line. Rumors, anxiety, and
hysteria created by such inevitable incidents may lead to panic-stricken
evacuations of entire neighborhoods, even cities, and may produce many
indirect fatalities. It may also lead to irresistible demands to fortify
the entire United States against future chemical and biological attacks,
however absurd the cost.

Americans should remember the calls made in the 1950s to build shelters,
conduct country-wide drills, and alert the entire nation for a first-strike
nuclear attack. A return to the duck-and-cover absurdities of that time is
likely to be as ineffective and debilitating now as it was then. Although
the threat of chemical and biological terrorism should be taken seriously,
the public must know that the risk of a major catastrophe is extremely
minimal. The fear of CBW terrorism is contagious: Other countries are
already showing increased interest in protecting themselves against
superterrorism. A restrained and measured American response to the new
threat may have a sobering effect on CBW mania worldwide.

                           Setting the FBI Free

  When members of the Japanese cult Aum Shinrikyo went shopping in the
  United States, they were not looking for cheap jeans or compact discs.
  They were out to secure key ingredients for a budding chemical-weapons
  program--and they went unnoticed. Today, more FBI agents than ever are
  working the counterterrorism beat: double the number that would-be
  superterrorists had to contend with just a few years ago. But is the
  FBI really better equipped now than it was then to discover and preempt
  such terrorist activity in its earliest stages?

  FBI counterterrorism policy is predicated on guidelines issued in 1983
  hy then-U.S. attorney general William French Smith: The FBI can open a
  full investigation into a potential act of terrorism only "when facts
  or circumstances reasonably indicate that two or more persons are
  engaged in activities that involve force or violence and a violation of
  the criminal laws of the United States." Short of launching a full
  investigation, the FBI may open a preliminary inquiry if it learns from
  any source that a crime might be committed and determines that the
  allegation "requires some further scrutiny." This ambiguous phrasing
  allows the FBI a reasonable degree of latitude in investigating
  potential terrorist activity.

  However, without a lead--whether an anonymous tip or a public news
  report--FBI agents can do little to gather intelligence on known or
  potential terrorists. Agents cannot even download information from
  World Wide Web sites or clip newspapers to track fringe elements. The
  FBI responds to leads; it does not ferret out potential threats.
  Indeed, in an interview with the Center for National Security Studies,
  one former FBI official griped, "You have to wait until you have blood
  on the street before the Bureau can act."

  CIA analysts in charge of investigating foreign terrorist threats comb
  extensive databanks on individuals and groups hostile to the United
  States. American citizens are constitutionally protected against this
  sort of intrusion. A 1995 presidential initiative intended to increase
  the FBI's authority to plant wiretaps, deport illegal aliens suspected
  of terrorism, and expand the role of the military in certain kinds of
  cases was blocked by Congress. Critics have argued that the costs of
  such constraints on law enforcement may he dangerously
  high--reconsidering them would be one of the most effective (and
  perhaps least expensive) remedies against superterrorism.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

WANT TO KNOW MORE?

Brian Jenkins first makes his well-known argument that terrorists want a
lot of people watching, not a lot of people dead, in "Will Terrorists Go
Nuclear?" (Orbis, Autumn 1985). More recently, Jenkins provides a reasoned
analysis of weapons-of-mass-destruction (WMD) terrorism in the aftermath of
the Tokyo subway attack in "The Limits of Terror: Constraints on the
Escalation of Violence" (Harvard International Review, Summer 1995). For a
counter argument, see Robert Kupperman's "A Dangerous Future: The
Destructive Potential of Criminal Arsenals" in the same issue. Ron Purver
reviews the literature on superterrorism and weighs the opportunities for,
and constraints on, terrorists considering a WMD attack in "Chemical and
Biological Terrorism: New Threat to Public Safety?" (Conflict Studies,
December 1996/January 1997). Jerrold Post and Ehud Sprinzak stress the
psychopolitical considerations inhibiting potential WMD terrorists in "Why
Haven't Terrorists Used Weapons of Mass Destruction?" (Armed Forces
Journal, April 1998). For a solid compilation of essays on superterrorism,
see Brad Roberts, ed., Terrorism with Chemical and Biological Weapons:
Calibrating Risks and Responses (Alexandria: Chemical and Biological Arms
Control Institute, 1997). Walter Laqueur surveys the history of terrorism
and finds an alarming number of barbarians at the gate in "Postmodern
Terrorism" (Foreign Affairs, September/October 1996). John Deutch takes a
counterintuitive look at the subject in "Think Again: Terrorism" (FOREIGN
POLICY, Fall 1997). Finally, David Kaplan provides the best available study
of Aum Shinrikyo in his excellent book The Cult at the End of the World:
The Terrifying Story of the Aum Doomsday Cult, from the Subways of Tokyo to
the Nuclear Arsenals of Russia (New York: Crown Publishers, 1996).

The World Wide Web provides a number of resources for superterrorism
research. The Carnegie Endowment for International Peace's Nonproliferation
Project and the Henry L. Stimson Center provide regular coverage of
nuclear-, chemical-, and biological-weapons issues, including terrorism.
The Federation of American Scientists publishes a wealth of government
documents as well as excellent news and analysis pertaining to weapons of
mass destruction. And the State Department's "Patterns of Global Terrorism"
provides one-stop shopping for information on some of the world's more
notorious organizations.

For links to these and other Web sites, as well as a comprehensive index of
related articles, access http://www.foreignpolicy.com.

[End]

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Also see:

Money Laundering -The BCCI Mystery Continues
Rose Attorney Hillary Rodham represented a Stephens
subsidiary, the Systematics bank-data processing firm.
http://www.aci.net/kalliste/

Judicial Watch's RICO case against Clinton
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/exclusiv/980929_judicial_watchs_cas.html

Clinton's secret war games
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/exclusiv/980929.exbre_clintons_secr.html

The War On Truth
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/smith/980929.comcs.html

Here you can examine the fairness of the UN climate change treaty....
http://www.climatefacts.org/

Bilderberg Conferences 
http://www.tlio.demon.co.uk/1998.htm

"....no conspiracy can survive expose'...."
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 16:38:58 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Chinese Govt Bans Controversial Clinton Book
Message-ID: <199809302133.OAA25687@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Chinese Govt Bans Controversial Clinton Book
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 09:16:35 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  US Newswire
http://www.usnewswire.com/topnews/Current_Releases/0929-126.txt

PRIMA: Chinese Government Bans Controversial Clinton Book
U.S. Newswire
29 Sep 15:06

 PRIMA Publishing: Chinese Government Bans Controversial Clinton
Book
 To: National Desk
 Contact: Diana Banister of Craig Shirley & Associates,
          800-536-5920, pager: 703-816-9368

   WASHINGTON, Sept. 29 /U.S. Newswire/ -- The following was released
today by Prima Publishing:

   Chinese authorities have refused to allow three publishing
houses to translate a new book -- "The Clinton Syndrome, The
President and the Self-Destructive Nature of Sexual Addiction" by
California-based Prima Publishing. The book takes a clinical look
at the life and behavior of Bill Clinton and explains why the
president would risk his presidency for a sexual relationship with
an intern.

   "We have been told that the Chinese government does not want to
make a book of this kind available in China because they consider
it unfavorable to President Clinton," says Robin Taylor, rights
associate at Prima Publishing. "The Chinese authorities apparently
don't understand why Americans treat their president just like any
other person and allow citizens to write about their government
leaders."

   In "The Clinton Syndrome," Jerome D. Levin, Ph.D., a
psychotherapist, addictions specialist and professor, assesses the
character of a man so driven by a sexual addiction that he would
risk his presidency to fulfill a desperate need for reassurance and
validation of his worth.

   Prima does not consider the Clinton Syndrome an "anti-Clinton"
book. In fact, Dr. Levin voted for President Clinton twice and
agrees with his policies. But he still believes the president is in
serious need of help for a classic case of sexual addiction.

   "We work with foreign publishers around the world on numerous
books," says Taylor. "Never have we had the subject matter of
a book impede its publication in a foreign country. But I guess
it's understandable when you consider the relationship between the
Clinton administration and the current Chinese government."

   "The Clinton Syndrome," published by Prima Publishing of
Rocklin, Calif., is available in bookstores nationwide. For more
information or to schedule an interview with Dr. Jerome D. Levin or
a Prima spokesman, please call Ciana Banister at 800-536-5920.

 -0-
 /U.S. Newswire  202-347-2770/
 09/29 15:06

Copyright 1998, U.S. Newswire
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 16:41:09 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Attn Should Turn to 'Buying of Congress'
Message-ID: <199809302133.OAA25698@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Attn Should Turn to 'Buying of Congress'
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 09:17:32 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  US Newswire
http://www.usnewswire.com/topnews/Current_Releases/0929-125.txt

Author: Attention Should Turn to 'Buying of Congress' 
U.S. Newswire
29 Sep 14:54

 Nation's Attention Should Turn to 'Buying of Congress' Says Author
Charles Lewis
 To: National and Assignment Desks
 Contact: Marie Elena Martinez of Avon Books, 212-261-6903

   News Advisory:

   "America's citizens have been so distracted by the barrage of
commentary, testimony and endless supposition about the President
Clinton/Monica Lewinsky saga that Capitol Hill lawmakers have had a
reprieve from even the limited amount of scrutiny that normally
surrounds their activities," says Charles Lewis, whose THE BUYING OF
THE CONGRESS: How Special Interests Have Stolen Your Right to Life,
Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness, written with The Center For
Public Integrity, has just been published.  He points out that while
the nation focuses on whether or not President Clinton should be
impeached, no one is scrutinizing the acts of grand larceny committed
by Congress every day.

   "The attention being paid to the current scandal means that
nobody's minding the store, and the store -- Congress -- needs
minding," says Lewis pointing to the ever-increasing influence of
big-money special interests and the impact this has on people's
lives every single day.  Just a few of the detrimental results
of Congress's love affair with special interests, as detailed
in THE BUYING OF THE CONGRESS, are: little or no action on Social
Security, the continued threat to life from e-coli contamination
and other poisoned foods, the loss of full health benefits,
the number of people who must hold two jobs to make ends meet,
the enormous drop in the percentage of federal tax revenue paid
by corporations, and low voter turnout.  "We've found that members
of Congress moonlight for themselves and their wealthy patrons
more than they work for us," says Lewis who then enumerates
"employers" as varied as Lockheed-Martin, Ameritech, the National
Right to Life PAC, and the National Rifle Association.

   Among the people who are most vocal in their condemnation of
President Clinton during this tumultuous time are several whose
career patrons are publicly identified for the first time in THE
BUYING OF THE CONGRESS, including Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich
(R-GA), and Minority Leader Dick Gephardt (D-MO).

   "With the elections just six weeks away, we can't afford to
overlook Congress's own misdeeds," says Lewis.

    ------
   FOR INTERVIEWS OR ADDITIONAL INFORMATION CONTACT: Marie Elena
Martinez, 212/261-6903

 -0-
 /U.S. Newswire  202-347-2770/
 09/29 14:54

Copyright 1998, U.S. Newswire
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 16:38:42 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Army goes offline in reaction to Pentagon order
Message-ID: <199809302133.OAA25709@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Army goes offline in reaction to Pentagon order
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 10:24:30 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  Federal Computer Week
http://www.fcw.com/pubs/fcw/1998/0928/web-army-9-28-98.html

----------
SEPTEMBER 28, 1998 . . . 11:50 EDT 
----------

Army goes offline in reaction to Pentagon order

BY BOB BREWIN (antenna@fcw.com)

The Army slammed shut its door to the wired world last week, closing down
all its World Wide Web sites in reaction to a new Pentagon Web security
policy.

Only the Army had such a drastic response to a Defense Department memo
issued last week that spelled out what information DOD Web sites should and
should not post. The Air Force, the Navy and the Marine Corps still offer
the public access to popular and highly visible Web pages.

The Army's move is in reaction to Deputy Secretary of Defense John Hamre's
policy memo released Sept. 17, which directed all military organizations
that maintain Web sites to review and then remove sensitive information
that could aid potential enemies of the United States. Hamre said some Web
sites in the past have provided "too much detail on DOD capabilities,
infrastructure and operational capabilities.'' Hamre said this new policy
will help DOD to "strike a balance between openness and sound security.''

The Army, according to an internal message furnished to FCW, responded by
directing all commanders to ensure that "all of their publicly accessible
Web sites are immediately disconnected from the Internet.''

Lt. Gen. William Campbell, the Army's director of information systems for
command, control, communications and computers, sent the message at 5 p.m.
Friday. He added that the shutdown could be accomplished by physically
disconnecting Web servers from the public network, moving all Web site
files from public to nonpublic servers or instituting control mechanisms
that prohibit public access.

The internal Army message also suggested that commands deal with frustrated
users trying to access Army Web sites by posting a new "cover page'' (in
use on many Army Web pages, including the main site at www.army.mil) that
reads: "This Army Web site is not currently available. This Web site will
be available again after maintenance is completed.''

The Web shutdown caught the public affairs staff at the Department of the
Army's headquarters in the Pentagon by surprise. An Army spokesman was
unable to offer any explanation for the move or any indication of when the
sites would be operating again.
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 16:38:43 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Secret Courts Approve More Wiretapping
Message-ID: <199809302133.OAA25720@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Secret Courts Approve More Wiretapping
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 10:50:51 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  Excerpted from:
----------------------------------

From: "John C. Goodman- National Center for Policy Analysis" 

National Center for Policy Analysis
DAILY POLICY DIGEST
Wednesday, September 30, 1998



SECRET COURTS APPROVE MORE WIRETAPPING

Judges in secret federal courts are authorizing unprecedented 
numbers of wiretaps and clandestine searches, according to U.S. 
Department of Justice records.  The courts were authorized by the 
1978 Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA).

   o   During the last three years, an annual average of 760 
       wiretaps and searches were carried out -- a 38 percent 
       increase from the 550 a year average for 1990 to 1994.

   o   Since 1995, FISA courts also have authorized searches of 
       the homes, cars, computers and other property of suspected 
       spies.

   o   In all, the courts have approved 11,950 applications and 
       turned down one request.

Proponents argue the surveillance reflects a stepped-up federal 
response to increased terrorist activity on American soil.  But 
opponents contend that the process endangers the very liberties 
it seeks to protect.  "There's a growing addiction to the use of 
secret courts as an alternative to more conventional 
investigative means," points out Jonathan Turley, a law professor 
at George Washington University.

The law requires the Justice Department -- and usually the FBI or 
the National Security Agency -- to show the judge that the target 
is a foreign government or agent engaging in "clandestine 
intelligence gathering activities" or terrorism.

Source: Richard Willing, "With Secret Courts' OK, Wiretapping on 
the Rise," and "Secrecy Might Be Weak Link in Taps of Suspected 
Spies," both USA Today, September 30, 1998. 

For more on Terrorism http://www.ncpa.org/pi/congress/cong9.html

****************************************************************************
                    NATIONAL CENTER FOR POLICY ANALYSIS
                               DALLAS, TEXAS

                      "Making Ideas Change the World"

                             Internet Address:
                            http://www.ncpa.org
****************************************************************************


-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 16:41:17 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Secrecy might be weak link in wiretaps
Message-ID: <199809302133.OAA25731@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Secrecy might be weak link in wiretaps
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 10:57:09 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  USA Today
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nds1.htm

09/29/98- Updated 11:55 PM ET
 The Nation's Homepage

Secrecy might be weak link in wiretaps

 ALEXANDRIA, Va. - Intelligence officials increasingly rely on
 wiretaps authorized by a secret federal court to keep track of foreign
 spies and potential terrorists. 

 But an espionage trial set to begin in federal court here next Tuesday
 highlights what even the secret court's supporters admit is its weakness:
 The court's secrecy can make it very difficult for defendants caught on
 the wiretaps to defend themselves. 

 "If my client had been wiretapped based on (an ordinary federal)
 warrant, you can bet I'd be all over it," says Richard Sauber, a
 Washington, D.C., lawyer defending accused spy Kurt Stand. 

 "But this isn't an ordinary warrant. Under law I can't find out what the
 wiretap was based on, whether the information was flawed, whether
 the judge was correct to authorize it. There's a fundamental issue of
 fairness here," Sauber says. 

 Ironically, fairness was cited as the issue in 1978, when the Foreign
 Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) created a special secret court for
 authorizing wiretaps on suspected spies. 

 The FISA court was created by Congress as a check against the
 power of presidents, who until then had authorized wiretaps and
 warrantless searches on their own say so in the interest of national
 security. 

 The law requires the Justice Department, and usually the FBI or the
 National Security Agency, to show a judge that the target is a foreign
 government or agent engaging in "clandestine intelligence gathering
 activities" or terrorism. "The spirit of the thing is to hold the (wiretap
 requests) to a high legal standard," says William Webster, director of
 the FBI when FISA was passed. "That's a large departure from the
 way things had been done." 

 Now, investigators prepare a written request and run it by Justice
 Department lawyers. Justice certifies that the tap's primary purpose is
 to gather intelligence, though information gleaned can be used in
 criminal cases. 

 The request then is presented to one of seven FISA judges, who are
 U.S. district court judges appointed by the chief justice to authorize
 intelligence wiretaps. Many of the requests are heard in a soundproof
 sixth-floor conference room in the Justice Department's main
 headquarters. 

 The target of the search is not represented. 

 Says David Banisar, researcher for the Electronic Privacy Information
 Center: "There are mistakes made in ordinary warrant processes, from
 getting the wrong address to not having probable cause, and they can
 be corrected when lawyers attack the warrant. " 

 "That can't happen here," he says. "We'll never know how many
 mistakes are made because the (secret) court's proceeding isn't public."

 By Richard Willing, USA TODAY

(c)COPYRIGHT 1998 USA TODAY, a division of Gannett Co. Inc.
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 16:39:16 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Courts OK record number of wiretaps
Message-ID: <199809302133.OAA25743@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Courts OK record number of wiretaps
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 10:55:30 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  USA Today
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washdc/ncs2.htm

09/30/98- Updated 12:06 AM ET
 The Nation's Homepage

Courts OK record number of wiretaps

 WASHINGTON - Federal judges operating in secret courts are
 authorizing unprecedented numbers of wiretaps and clandestine
 searches aimed at spies and terrorists operating in the USA, Justice
 Department records show. 

 During the last three years, an average of 760 wiretaps and searches a
 year were carried out, a 38% increase from the 550 a year from 1990
 to 1994. 

 Federal judges have authorized a yearly average of 463 ordinary
 wiretaps since 1990 in drug, organized crime and other criminal cases. 

 Part of the growth in surveillance is attributed to an increase in
 espionage and terrorist activities in the USA. 

 "There's a greater quantity of the folks who are potentially problematic
 out there," says Jamie Gorelick, who as deputy attorney general from
 1994 to 1997 helped review wiretap applications. 

 Proponents say the surveillance reflects a stepped-up federal response
 to increased terrorist activity on American soil. 

 Opponents argue that the process endangers the very liberties it seeks
 to protect. 

 "This issue is where the rubber hits the road," says William Webster,
 who headed the FBI in 1978 when the law allowing the secret wiretaps
 was passed. "It's where we try to balance the concept of our liberty
 against what has to be done to protect it." 

 The wiretaps, which are applied for by the Justice Department under
 the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) and carried out by the
 FBI and National Security Agency, have received their greatest use yet
 under President Clinton and Attorney General Janet Reno. 

 Since 1995, FISA courts also have authorized searches of the homes,
 cars, computers and other property of suspected spies. In its two
 decades, FISA courts have approved 11,950 applications and turned
 down one request. 

 Generally, defense lawyers can challenge the basis for authorizing a
 wiretap. But supporting information for wiretaps authorized by the
 FISA court are sealed for national security reasons. 

 "It legitimizes what would appear to be contrary to constitutional
 protections," says Steven Aftergood, privacy specialist at the
 Federation of American Scientists. "It's a challenge to the foundation of
 American liberties." 

 Opponents also say the government is using the wiretaps to replace
 conventional criminal searches which must meet a higher legal standard.

 "There's a growing addiction to the use of the secret court as an
 alternative to more conventional investigative means," says Jonathan
 Turley, law professor at George Washington University in Washington,
 D.C. 

 The wiretaps are meant to develop intelligence, not to help make
 criminal cases. But the wiretap information was used to secure guilty
 pleas from CIA turncoats Aldrich Ames in 1994 and Harold Nicolson
 in 1997. 

 By Richard Willing, USA TODAY

(c)COPYRIGHT 1998 USA TODAY, a division of Gannett Co. Inc.
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 16:38:38 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Innovative Approach to Biometric ID Authentication
Message-ID: <199809302133.OAA25759@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Innovative Approach to Biometric ID Authentication
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 11:16:35 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  PR Newswire
http://www.prnewswire.com/

DEL-ID... AN UNUSUAL AND INNOVATIVE APPROACH TO ID AUTHENTICATION 

    MONTREAL, Sept. 28 /CNW-PRN/ - The market for ID authentication
products that use biometric technologies is experiencing strong growth. The
dominant technology at the moment uses finger prints (or, to be exact,
finger print details, such as bifurcations or ridge endings). The reason is
simple.  It has long been accepted that finger prints are unique to each
individual; this assumption is backed by probability analyses confirming
that the theoretical probability of finding similar finger-print detail
configurations in two different individuals is about 10(-20) (that is,
about one chance in a billion billion).  In practice, however, measuring
errors can occur when processing finger-print images, increasing the
probability of error to about one in a
thousand for top-quality commercial systems.

    There are weaknesses in the existing approach, however. For example,
privacy cannot be guaranteed when a digital finger print is used for ID
authentication and large pieces of equipment are required.  For these
reasons, other options must be considered. The del-ID solution proposed by
delSecur is an original and attractive approach. 

    The delSecur system processes finger-print image data analogically, not
digitally, creating an abstract image of the characteristics of the human
finger.  The video signal from the reader that captures the finger image is
analogically processed.  To register with the del-ID authentication system,
you place your finger over the reader (without touching it, so you don't
leave finger prints on it) and an abstract image of your finger print is
stored. This becomes your personal electronic signature.  When someone
claiming to be you places his finger over the reader, a new abstract image
is generated and authenticated by comparison with the stored image; a
comparison matrix developed by delSecur is used to determine the similarity
of the two images. The matrix, patented by delSecur, comes from the field
of photography and may be combined with other metric matrices developed by
CRIM or borrowed from other existing technologies.

    The delSecur concept is original. It is different from conventional
approaches and its architecture is unusually simple.  What distinguishes
the delSecur concept is the representation of the finger image and the
technology that allows this representation to be used for authentication.
delSecur uses a patented process to create an abstract image that contains
data unique to an individual. delSecur not only built a device to
demonstrate the potential of the concept but also developed a preliminary
architecture for the registration and authentication prototype, making it
possible to analyze the concept--the maximum rotation angle for feasibility
and authentication, for example. 

    Given the encouraging results of the scientific evaluation of the basic
concept of the del-ID system, delSecur, in partnership with CRIM and other
firms, is planning to begin a case study and pilot projects with large
Canadian and international firms to clarify and test technical details.
The ultimate goal is implementation of a wide variety of applications on a
very large scale.

    The del-ID system is marketed by delSecur, a Canadian company wholly
owned by Grandeur Inc., a firm listed on the New York stock exchange. 
    NASDAQ: GDER

(c)1998 PR Newswire. 
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 16:39:51 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Navy investigating GSU computer hacker
Message-ID: <199809302133.OAA25787@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Navy investigating GSU computer hacker
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 12:42:56 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  Savannah Morning News
http://www.savannahmorningnews.com/smn/stories/093098/LOCgsuhacker.html

U.S. Navy investigating GSU computer hacker 

University computer was used to break into a government
computer.

By Jenel Williams Few
Savannah Morning News

Someone used a Georgia Southern University writing and linguistics
department classroom computer to break into government files and the
U.S. Navy wants to know why.

The Naval Criminal Investigation Office is looking into a computer
hacking case at Georgia Southern University, according to Bryan
Stamper, special agent in charge at the Jacksonville, Fla., office.

John Glacier, assistant director for technical support at Georgia
Southern, said the school was recently asked to find out which of its
computers was used to access computer files from a government
agency.

"We believe it was from our model classroom during a scheduled
classtime," Glacier said.

He tracked the school's computer records and discovered that someone
used a computer in the writing and linguistics department's model
classroom to hack into a government computer while a class was in
session.

"They ran a file transfer protocol program, which allows you to
download files and gain access to someone else's computer," Glacier
said.

Details about the Navy's investigation will be made available at a later
date.

Computer hacking can carry serious federal penalties, according to
Federal Bureau of Investigations Special Agent William Kirkconnell. An
innocent infiltration may not merit any punishment, but using a computer
to steal classified government information could be considered
espionage, he said.

"It depends on what agency was affected, whether it was done
maliciously and whether the information was used for criminal
purposes," he said.

Glacier said he does not know who used the campus computer to break
into government files or how much information was accessed.

"They wouldn't say if files were downloaded or uploaded," Glacier said,
referring to bringing information into the GSU computer or taking
information from the GSU computer and sending it to another one.
"They haven't questioned any students."

Although he doesn't know the culprit's motivation, Glacier said these
types of incidents often occur among bright, curious students.

"College-age students want to apply the knowledge they have gained
about computers," he said. "What they've learned in high school and
college intuitively generates curiosity and they want a challenge."

Last year, in a similar incident, Glacier said a hacker tried to hide some
computer mischief by calling a Georgia Southern computer and linking
up to computers from the Philippines to the Midwest before breaking
into government files.

"It alarms me that we would be used that way, but it occurs around the
world and it's not too hard to use computers this way," Glacier said.

Higher education reporter Jenel Williams Few can be reached at
652-0325.

Web posted Wednesday, September 30, 1998
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




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To subscribe or unsubscribe, email:
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 16:49:40 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: [FP] FW: NID Repeal Possible
Message-ID: <199809302150.OAA27187@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: "ScanThisNews" 
Subject: [FP] FW: NID Repeal Possible
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 20:59:21 -0500
To: "Scan This News Recipients List" 

======================================================================
SCAN THIS NEWS
9/29/98

[Forwarded message follows]
=======================================================================
-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick Poole
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 1998
To: 'iRESIST'; 'Scott McDonald'
Subject: NID Repeal Possible


A source inside Dick Armey's office today said that it is probable
that there will be a national ID repeal provision in the Omnibus
appropriations bill this year. We need to continue to "remind" the
House leadership (Gingrich, Armey, DeLay) that this is a non-negotiable
issue over the next week. Armey and DeLay are friends of ours on this
issue, but Gingrich will do only what the political winds tell him.

Patrick Poole
Free Congress Foundation
Patrick S. Poole, Deputy Director
(mailto:ppoole@fcref.org)
phone: 202-546-3000
fax: 202-544-2819
http://www.freecongress.org/

[End of forwarded message]
=======================================================================
[Good link to contact your congress-critters:]
http://www.visi.com/juan/congress/
=======================================================================
Call your Congress person every day toll-free!

[Haven't checked these numbers to see if they are still good.]

You may phone the U. S. Capitol switchboard at any of the following
numbers, when they answer, ask for your Senator or Representative's office.
If you don't know the name of your Senator or Representative, tell the
operator where you live and she will connect you to the proper office. 
(800)972-3524
(800)522-6721
(888)723-5246

=======================================================================
[Here's another number:]

The Unions have set up a toll-free number so individuals can call
Congress. If you have to call a congressional office, use the following
number: 1-888-723-5246. Each phone call may cost the unions between
$4.00-$10.00. Use it if you're on the hill or off the hill. Give the
number to 15 of your closest friends and have them call their
congressman's office just to say "hi". Calling this number puts you
directly through to the congressional operator.

[Haven't checked it either.]

=======================================================================
Don't believe anything you read on the Net unless:
1) you can confirm it with another source, and/or
2) it is consistent with what you already know to be true.
=======================================================================
Reply to: 
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: support@golive.com
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 17:20:43 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: GoLive CyberStudio Trial Activation Key
Message-ID: <199809302211.PAA06186@company.golive.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Dear Fritzie,

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Your official 30-day activation key is: MWT4QWF7F8WP7GJJ

You'll need to enter this key when you first start-up the
software.

If you have questions about how to use the Tryout software,
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Operations Coordinator
GoLive Systems, Inc.
customercare@golive.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 17:27:36 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A19284710@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Petro wrote:
> >> Had Microsoft, for example, been required to publish their
> >> API's by the market we wouldn't be spending all this effort
>    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> 
> >You state free-market and then you are *requiring* someone to 
> >do something? How do you resolve that contradiction? Require 
> >= Force != Free[dom]
> 
> Required as in purchasers large and small saying "You 
> don't include your source code, we won't buy it".

*Require* per say is a bad term for the use of economic power. But the
market didn't "require" Microsoft to do so (see Microsoft's financial
statements), so why should the government step in and force something
that is contrary to the market?

The rest of Jim's sentence read "we wouldn't be spending all this effort
and money on the current [Department of Justice] proceedings."

Which tells me that require means certain segments of the market telling
Microsoft you will do this or we will fuck you over with the borrowcrats
we own, which is exactly what has happened. The elements lacked
sufficient economic power to sway Microsoft, and they lacked sufficient
political power until they ganged up together. A loose coalition to gain
via use of DOJ antitrust force what they good not gain in a free market.
That is political power, not economic.
What is rather ironic is that the same Antitrust laws they are trying to
bash Microsoft with are what prevented them from forming an economic
(instead of under-the-table political) coalition that could have made
Microsoft change its practices without resorting to non-free-market
forces.

	Matt




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bram 
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 17:08:22 +0800
To: rms@gnu.org
Subject: Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code)
In-Reply-To: <199809301621.KAA09089@wijiji.santafe.edu>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Wed, 30 Sep 1998, Richard Stallman wrote:

> It isn't surprising that people who want to write non-free software
> are disappointed that the GNU project won't help them.  What is
> amazing is that they feel this is unfair.  They have no intention of
> letting me use their source code in my programs--so why should they be
> entitled to use my source code in their programs?  These people seem
> to think that their selfishness entitles them to special treatment.

I've never heard anyone say it's unfair, I've just heard people claim that
there's benefit they could be getting which is prohibited by it. This
generally translates into benefit which is denied their clients as well,
in addition to people who interact with their clients. I for one don't
much care if code I write makes someone money in addition to doing some
good, I just want it to be beneficial.

Basic physical necessities, as well as business mechanisms, unfortunately
make it impossible for all code I write to be distributed without some
mechanism by which I could make money off of it. That doesn't mean my code
is evil, just that I'm not independently wealthy.

(Incidentally, the code I'm working on right now will probably wind up
being free, with a considerably looser license than GPL.)

-Bram




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 16:21:07 +0800
To: Bruce Schneier 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 2:02 PM -0500 9/30/98, Bruce Schneier wrote:
>Ever since writing Applied Cryptography, I have been asked to recommend a
>book on cryptanalysis.  My unfortunate answer is that while there are
>several good books on cryptography, there are no books, good or bad, on
>cryptanalysis.
...

>To help in getting this experience, I designed a self-study course in
>block-cipher cryptanalysis.  With it, a student can follow an ordered path
>through the academic literature and emerge out the other side fully capable
>of breaking new algorithms and publishing new cryptanalytic results.

...

>The paper is available in both postscript and pdf formats at:
>
>	http://www.counterpane.com/self-study.html
>
>Comments are always appreciated.

	Thanks.
--
petro@playboy.com----for work related issues. I don't speak for Playboy.
petro@bounty.org-----for everthing else.      They wouldn't like that.
                                              They REALLY
Economic speech IS political speech.          wouldn't like that.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 16:03:09 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code) (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809302058.PAA13319@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Subject: Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code)
> From: Derek Atkins 
> Date: 30 Sep 1998 16:02:23 -0400

> The big issue I see with GPL and Crypto software is that with the GPL
> you cannot add any redistribution restrictions.  The problem is that
> due to the United States export rules, I cannot export Crypto
> software, which means I must legally put a restriction on any Crypto
> code I write.  But, this is a "further restriction" as far as the
> GPL is concerned.  This, in turn, means I cannot use the GPL for
> Crypto software.

A legal prohibition isn't a licensing restriction, it's a distribution
restriction. A license restriction defines who can use a product and
under what terms they may do so legaly, it doesn't address where they
may use it legaly.

If you tried to put a license restriction that said "can only be used in
the US" *then* you would be correct. It isn't the copyright holders choice
and therefore they're not responsible for it per se. Not to mention that
it would be very hard to support legaly.

A good example is I have a military book that says that you can only
possess the book in the US and Canada...try to enforce that one.

Were that the case Phil Z. would be sittin in a hoosgow right now.

Personaly, I like the idea of printing your source out and sending it to
HackTick for typing in and reposting. That wouldn't effect your initial
licensing restrictions and bypasses the restrictions handily.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Derek Atkins 
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 15:04:02 +0800
To: rms@gnu.org
Subject: Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code)
In-Reply-To: <199809281845.TAA18662@server.eternity.org>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



The big issue I see with GPL and Crypto software is that with the GPL
you cannot add any redistribution restrictions.  The problem is that
due to the United States export rules, I cannot export Crypto
software, which means I must legally put a restriction on any Crypto
code I write.  But, this is a "further restriction" as far as the
GPL is concerned.  This, in turn, means I cannot use the GPL for
Crypto software.

-derek
-- 
       Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory
       Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board  (SIPB)
       URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/    PP-ASEL-IA     N1NWH
       warlord@MIT.EDU                        PGP key available




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 16:09:53 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Is the .to (Tonga) domain completely rogue and should be removed?
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



:-).

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga

--- begin forwarded text


Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 15:24:09 -0400
Reply-To: bzs@world.std.com
Originator: com-priv@lists.psi.com
Sender: com-priv@lists.psi.com
Precedence: bulk
From: Barry Shein 
To: Multiple recipients of list 
Subject: Is the .to (Tonga) domain completely rogue and should be removed?
X-Comment:  Commercialization and Privatization of the Internet


We've been having increasing problems with one or more porn sites in
the .to domain promoting itself by massive spamming of AOL customers
using one of our domains in their From: header thus causing both
complaints to us and thousands of bounces from AOL due to bad AOL
addresses in their spam lists.

Looking at the .to domain I can't help but notice it's heavily laden
with what appear to be porn sites (sexonline.to, come.to,
xxxhardcore.to, etc.)

1. Performing traceroutes and other analyses seems to indicate that
this domain is NOT being used for communication with entities
legitimately located (legally, not only geographically) within the
sovereignty of the Kingdom of Tonga, as intended.

2. Clearly criminal and malicious activites are arising from sites to
which Tonga has provided comfort and sanctuary.

3. Therefore, I call for a process whereby it can be determined as to
whether or not it is appropriate to decommission the Tongan domain due
to negligence, mismanagement, and having allowed it to become an
attractive resource for criminal activities. I do not believe the
Tongan domain serves any legitimate purpose as an internet resource.

In support of this assertion I want to show you an SMTP conversation
with what claims to be the Consulate of the Government of Tonga in San
Francisco (This San Francisco office is listed as an official Tongan
contact point for visas etc by the US State Dept):

world% telnet sfconsulate.gov.to 25
Trying 209.24.51.169...
Connected to sfconsulate.gov.to.
Escape character is '^]'.
220 colo.to SMTP ready, Who are you gonna pretend to be today?
VRFY postmaster
500 Bloody Amateur! Proper forging of mail requires recognizable SMTP commands!

--------------------

Viewing the web page for the Tongan Consulate in the US
(http://sfconsulate.gov.to) reveals nothing but an ad for a software
company, this page ends with:

   Need a domain name? Contact the Kingdom of Tonga Internet domain name
                                 registry.

--------------------

Consequently, I assert there is no reason for this domain to exist and
it should be removed from the root name servers.


--
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | http://www.world.com
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD
The World              | Public Access Internet     | Since 1989     *oo*

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Burnes 
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 18:19:43 +0800
To: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Subject: Re: IP: Chinese Govt Bans Controversial Clinton Book
In-Reply-To: <199809302133.OAA25687@netcom13.netcom.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Wed, 30 Sep 1998, Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote:

> 
> From: believer@telepath.com
> Subject: IP: Chinese Govt Bans Controversial Clinton Book
> Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 09:16:35 -0500
> To: believer@telepath.com
> 
> Source:  US Newswire
> http://www.usnewswire.com/topnews/Current_Releases/0929-126.txt
> 
> PRIMA: Chinese Government Bans Controversial Clinton Book
> U.S. Newswire
> 29 Sep 15:06
> 
>  PRIMA Publishing: Chinese Government Bans Controversial Clinton
> Book
>  To: National Desk
....

> 
>    Chinese authorities have refused to allow three publishing
> houses to translate a new book -- "The Clinton Syndrome, The
> President and the Self-Destructive Nature of Sexual Addiction" by

Wonder what they would think of "The Secret Life of Bill Clinton"
by Ambrose Evans-Pritchard.  Pretty amazing book.

My guess is that they don't want their top spy in the US sullied
by "hearsay".  ;-)

jim





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Max Inux 
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 19:53:56 +0800
To: emailking.associates@cwix.com
Subject: Re: advertisement
In-Reply-To: <199809301343.IAA11432@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Mon, 28 Sep 1998 emailking.associates@cwix.com wrote:

>Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 10:33:26
>From: emailking.associates@cwix.com
>To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com
>Subject: advertisement
>
>
>This Message was Composed using Extractor Pro '98 Bulk E- Mail 
>Software. If 
>you wish to be removed from this advertiser's future mailings, 
>please reply 
>with the subject "Remove" and this software will automatically 
>block you 
>from their future mailings.

>1-800-781-7046 ext.6053
>
>If you do not wish to receive this message hit "reply" and type 
>"remove" in the subject line and you
>will atomatically be removed from future mailings. Sorry if this 
>was an inconvenience to you.


I am impressed, this thing follows the laws of California, mighty
impressive.  Both a 1-800 number to call, an email address of a real
person and an automated removal...  And it even had an address in it!

Spammers are starting to kinda follow laws.. if only they would follows
rules, like "SPAMMING IS BAD!" but that wont happen... 

just my $0.02 worth

Max
--   Max Inux   Hey Christy!!! KeyID 0x8907E9E5
Kinky Sex makes the world go round O R Strong crypto makes the world safe
       If crypto is outlawed only outlaws will have crypto
Fingerprint(Photo Also): 259D 59F7 D98C CD73 1ACD 54Ea 6C43 4877 8907 E9E5






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: RedRook 
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 20:16:03 +0800
To: ravage@einstein.ssz.com
Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
Message-ID: <19981001011807.25359.rocketmail@send103.yahoomail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Choate [mailto:ravage@einstein.ssz.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 1998 4:38 PM
[deletia]
> The reality is that we don't live in a free-market, 
> but rather a rather lightly regulated one. 
> Microsoft got a tad too greedy in fixing their
> software so that specific competitors would 
> not be able to use it, this in
> itself may not be a crime. However it 
> *does* deny the consumer the choice
> and that most certainly is a crime.

Please elaborate. Netscape works fine on Windows 98, and faces the
same restrictions with installation that original Windows 95 had. 

As for Java, Java works as well on Windows as on any other platform. 

It's funny how giving the customers more value for their money, always
ends up being anti-competative. It's a thorny issue that's not easy to
deal with. Especially with Microsoft. They have such a large pool of
source code, so many employees, and such an effective distribution
network, that they can quickly add a jillion features to any program,
and make so much money off of it, that it's difficult for anyone but a
multi-million dollar company to compete

And no, taking the browser out of Windows is not going to change that.

Harv.
RedRook@yahoo.com
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 20:26:17 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A19284714@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Jim Choate wrote:
> The reality is that we don't live in a free-market, but 
> rather a rather lightly regulated one.

Lightly? You jest. No, we certainly don't live in a free market, we have
a mixed economy. We *should* have a free market, government distortions
are much more destructive and pervasive than any potential abuses by
market leaders. Also, the latter abuses are naturally corrected by
competition, not necessarily immediate but certainly faster than
government distortions which they blame on the market as an excuse for
*more* government distortions.

The answer for establishing "rules" which insure "fairness," such as
preventing an OS vendor from conspiring against a single application
vendor and intentionally breaking their product or enforcing artificial
incompatibilities, is to create a framework for standards, peer-review,
arbitration and liability to enforce "fair" industry practice and
competition. Make it a contractually issue and not a criminal one,
reputation for punishment instead of life and liberty, and an optional
and competitive system instead of a compelled and monopolistic one. An
optional system must have an overall and mutual benefit for all parties
involved, the government has no such limitation and becomes an
instrument for theft.

We have two paths for international commerce and regulation, we can
continue to the New World Order (NWO), or we can divorce the supporting
infrastructure from the geopolitical power base.

	Matt




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 18:36:07 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code) (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809302334.SAA14765@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 15:25:34 -0700 (PDT)
> From: bram 
> Subject: Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code)

> I've never heard anyone say it's unfair, I've just heard people claim that

You haven't been reading this thread very closely have you?

Lot's of organizations and people are claiming it's unfair in their refusal
to use it based upon the conditions of code distribution.

"It's not fair, I can't make money off your work....."


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 18:36:26 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809302337.SAA14813@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: Matthew James Gering 
> Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
> Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 15:25:32 -0700

> statements), so why should the government step in and force something
> that is contrary to the market?

If Microsofts actions were prohibitive and they didn't set out with specific
intentions of denying fair competition (there have been quite a few
documents and transcripts released that show this pre-meditated intent) then
it wouldn't need to.

The reality is that we don't live in a free-market, but rather a rather
lightly regulated one. Microsoft got a tad too greedy in fixing their
software so that specific competitors would not be able to use it, this in
itself may not be a crime. However it *does* deny the consumer the choice
and that most certainly is a crime.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Max Inux 
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 20:40:20 +0800
To: business_ideas@usa.net
Subject: Re: Increase Your Paycheck Next Week
In-Reply-To: <199809301608.JAA07148@cyberpass.net>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Wed, 30 Sep 1998 2001files@usa.net wrote:

Dear spammer,

Nice threats are attached to this spam.  I love new ideas from the
spamming community. Please be aware by not  including a real human email
address (specifically stated) and a 1800 number to call to be removed,
you are in violation of California law.  

Max Inux

>Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 09:08:07 -0700 (PDT)
>From: 2001files@usa.net
>Reply-To: business_ideas@usa.net
>To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
>Subject: Increase Your Paycheck Next Week
>
>
>Would you like to get a pay raise next week without asking your boss?   Then this very special report, "Money Power," is for you!
>
>If you have a regular job - not working in your own or a family business - and you get a regular paycheck, we can show you how you can give yourself a HUGE RAISE in your very next paycheck.  At least between 20% - 30% more than what you are getting now.  Yes, your paycheck will be increased substantially!
>
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>
>No Gimmicks!  Everything is perfectly legal.
>
>"Money Power" is written in three parts:
>
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>
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>
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>
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>
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>
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>                     ------------------------------------
>
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>
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>
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>
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>
>"Money Power" is the result of the author's frustration and aggravation with the system and the research he did to change his situation.  These are methods they don't teach you in school!
>
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>
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>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Here's how to order:
>
>*****To order online, click on your reply button and type ORDER ONLINE in the subject line and we will e-mail you the online order form.
>
>                             OR
>
>Print out the convenient order form below NOW and mail it to:
>
>	World Net Press
>	Dept. EN-930
>	P.O. Box 96594
>	Las Vegas, NV 89193-6594
>	
>Payment Method:  
>_____ Check     
>_____ Money Order
>_____ Visa
>_____ MasterCard
>_____ American Express
>_____ Discover
>
>_____ Yes, I want to order my copy of  "Money Power".  Price is $9.95 + $3.95 S/H = $13.90 and my order will be shipped by 1st Class Mail.   
>
>Name_________________________________________________________________________
>
>Address______________________________________________________________________
>
>City/State/Zip_______________________________________________________________
>
>Daytime Phone (__________)___________________________________________________
>
>E-Mail Address_______________________________________________________________
>
>Credit Card #_____________________________________________ Exp. Date_________
>
>Cardholder Name (as it appears on the card)__________________________________
>
>(Please make sure you include your phone number and e-mail address in case we have a question about your order.  Your credit card billing will reflect Road to Wealth, Inc.)
>
>
>
>**************************************************************************
>We are currently consolidating our mailing lists and need to update our database.  Our records indicate you may have inquired in the past. If this message has reached you in error, or the information is not correct, please accept our apology.  Follow the instructions below to be removed and we will honor your request.  We do not knowingly engage in spam of any kind.
>
>Please click on your reply button and type REMOVE in the subject line only.  The software reads only the subject line, not the body of the message.
>**************************************************************************
>
>Please be advised we collect the e-mail addresses of all flamers, hackers, and users of abusive and vulgar language.  We submit these addresses to the FBI and Interpol on a monthly basis.  
>
>
>
>


--   Max Inux   Hey Christy!!! KeyID 0x8907E9E5
Kinky Sex makes the world go round O R Strong crypto makes the world safe
       If crypto is outlawed only outlaws will have crypto
Fingerprint(Photo Also): 259D 59F7 D98C CD73 1ACD 54Ea 6C43 4877 8907 E9E5






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 20:47:18 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: Internet is a dog named Toto
Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A19284715@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




"Keep thought: If the Internet were a dog, it might be named Toto. Like
that little yapper in the famous film whose bark had some bite, the
Internet is yanking back the curtains and exposing the powers that be
for what they are: big-mouthed, fast-talking "wizards" about to be run
out of town."

(from http://www.business2.com/articles/issue1.html)


For some reason when I read this paragraph, it had an oddly strange
parallel meaning. ;)

	Matt




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 18:48:39 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Is the .to (Tonga) domain completely rogue and should be removed? (fwd)
Message-ID: <199809302351.SAA14932@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 16:50:34 -0400
> From: Robert Hettinga 
> Subject: Is the .to (Tonga) domain completely rogue and should be removed?

> 1. Performing traceroutes and other analyses seems to indicate that
> this domain is NOT being used for communication with entities
> legitimately located (legally, not only geographically) within the
> sovereignty of the Kingdom of Tonga, as intended.

Intended by who? As far as I know there are no legal limitations on applying
for and receiving a domain from anywhere through the suitable authority.
There is most certainly zero law that regulates where the owners of those
domains may reside or operate.

Snark hunt.

> 2. Clearly criminal and malicious activites are arising from sites to
> which Tonga has provided comfort and sanctuary.

I got nothing against nailing spammers, but simply being a sex related site
isn't a crime.

> 3. Therefore, I call for a process whereby it can be determined as to
> whether or not it is appropriate to decommission the Tongan domain due
> to negligence, mismanagement, and having allowed it to become an
> attractive resource for criminal activities. I do not believe the
> Tongan domain serves any legitimate purpose as an internet resource.

Irrelevant unless you own the right to administre the tonga domain.

Do you?

I vote *NO*.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 19:10:48 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: FBI Responds to Barr
Message-ID: <199810010000.UAA06013@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



The FBI today responded to accusations by Rep. Bob Barr 
of "an effort by the Department of Justice to obtain massive 
new enforcement powers in the closing days of the 105th 
Congress":

   http://jya.com/fbi-barr.htm

DoJ promises to provide a response tomorrow.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 19:57:03 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: advertisement (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810010059.TAA15358@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 17:53:09 -0700 (PWT)
> From: Max Inux 
> Subject: Re: advertisement

> 
> >1-800-781-7046 ext.6053

> I am impressed, this thing follows the laws of California, mighty
> impressive.  Both a 1-800 number to call, an email address of a real

I called and requested they take all ssz.com addresses from all their lists.
I also passed the number along to quite a few anti-spammers. You really
should avail yourself of the opportunity to leave the gentleman a nice
considerate message.

As to having auto-mated removal, I didn't ask to be added so somebody want
to explain to me why I should do anything to stop receiving this traffic?
Seems to me the only ethical mechanism it auto-remove on first transmission
without a subscription request.

Computers are *supposed* to make our lives *easier*. Some folks seem to have
forgotten this.

    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 21:47:33 +0800
To: Emile Zola 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

False Security

		        William H. Payne	
                                   
  			Abstract

"Why 130 million Wiegand cards are in use throughout the world .

The most secure of all access card technologies.

HID Wiegand cards are virtually impossible to counterfeit... any attempt
to 
alter them destroys them! ...

Since no direct contact with the card is required, they are totally
enclosed,
making them absolutely immune to the elements and a frustration of
vandals. ... 

     	The secrets to the security of an
  	HID Wiegand card are those little
      	enclosed wire strips. Once corrupted,
  	they won't work."

Access Control & SECURITY SYSTEMS INTEGRATION, September 1998
www.prox.com  http/www.securitysolutions.com 
http://www.securitysolutions.com/

Bullshit.

	Fumble, Bumble and Inept Funds Electronic Lock Breaking at
	Sandia National Laboratories.

Zola http://zolatimes.com/

Would this be worth some bucks?

Want another FUN article? 

http://www.zolatimes.com/v2.29/bw1.html
http://www.aci.net/kalliste/bw1

I would need a BRILLIANT EDITOR to help polish
the ms.  http://www.aci.net/kalliste/

On the other hand, we POSSSIBLY could get this UNFORTUNATE MATTER
SETTLED before it gets WORSE.

biru
copyright bill payne 9/30/98 7:27 PM


Counterfeiting Wiegand Wire Access Credentials
     
                                   Bill Payne
     
                                 October 16,1996
     
                                    Abstract
     
                  Wiegand wire access credentials are easy and
                  inexpensive to counterfeit.
     
        Access Control & Security Systems Integration magazine, October
        1996 [http://www/securitysolutions.com] published the article,
     
             Wiegand technology stands the test of time
     
             by PAUL J. BODELL, page 12
     
             Many card and reader manufacturers offer Wiegand (pronounced
             wee-gand) output.  However, only three companies in the
             world make Wiegand readers.  Sensor Engineering of Hamden
             Conn., holds the patent for Wiegand, and Sensor has licensed
             Cardkey of Simi Valley, Calif., and Doduco of Pforzheim,
             Germany, to manufacture Wiegand cards and readers. ...  A
             Wiegand output reader is not the same thing as a Wiegand
             reader,  and it is important to understand the differences.
     
                In brief, Wiegand reader use the Wiegand effect to
             translate card information around the patented Wiegand
             effect in which a segment of a specially treated wire
             generates an electronic pulse when subjected to a specific
             magnetic field.  If the pulse is generated when the wire is
             near a pick-up coil, the pulse can be detected by a circuit.
             Lining up several rows of wires and passing them by a cold
             would generate a series of pulses.  Lining up two rows of
             wires - calling on row "zero bits" and the other "one bits"
             - and passing them by two different coils would generate two
             series of pulses, or data bits.  These data bits can then be
             interpreted as binary data and used to control other
             devices.  If you seal the coils in a rugged housing with
             properly placed magnets, and LED and some simple circuitry,
             you have a Wiegand reader.  Carefully laminate the special
             wires in vinyl, and artwork, and hot-stamp a number on the
             vinyl, and you have a Wiegand card.
     
             IN THE BEGINNING
     
               Wiegand was first to introduce to the access control
             market in the late 1970s.  It was immediately successful
             because it filled the need for durable, secure card and
             reader technology.
               Embedded in the cards, Wiegand wires cannot be altered or
             duplicated. ...
     
        Bodell's Last statement is incorrect.
     
        Tasks for EASILY counterfeiting Wiegand wire cards are
     
        1    Locate the wires inside the card to read the 0s and 1s.
     
        2    Build an ACCEPTABLE copy of the card.
     
        Bodell's clear explanation of the working of a Wiegand card can
        be visualized
     
             zero row    |     |   |
     
             one row        |          |
     
             binary      0  1  0   0   1
             representation
     
        Solutions to Task 1
     
             A    X-ray the card
     
             B    MAGNI VIEW FILM,  Mylar film reads magnetic fields ...
                  Edmunds Scientific Company, catalog 16N1, page
                  205, C33,447  $11.75
     
        is placed over the top of the Wiegand card.
     
        COW MAGNET,  Cow magnetics allow farmers to trap metal in the
        stomachs of their cows.  Edmunds, page 204, C31,101 $10.75
        is placed under the card.
     
        Location of the wires is easily seen on the green film.
     
        Mark the position of the wires with a pen.
     
        Next chop the card vertically using a shear into about 80/1000s
        paper-match-sized strips.
     
        Don't worry about cutting a wire or two.
     
        Note that a 0 has the pen mark to the top.  A 1 has the pen mark
        at the bottom.
     
        Take a business card and layout the "paper match"-like strips to
        counterfeit the card number desired.
     
        Don't worry about spacing.  Wiegand output is self-clocking!
     
        Tape the "paper-match - like" strips to the business card.
     
        Only the FUNCTION of the card needs to be reproduced!
     
                                     History
     
        Breaking electronic locks was done as "work for others" at Sandia
     
        National Laboratories beginning in 1992 funded by the Federal
        Bureau of Investigation/Engineering Research Facility, Quantico,
        VA.
     
        The FBI opined that this work was SECRET/NATIONAL SECURITY
        INFORMATION.
     
        Details of the consequences of this work are covered in
     
             Fired Worker File Lawsuit Against Sandia
             Specialist Says He Balked When Lab Sought Electronic
             Picklock Software, Albuquer Journal, Sunday April 25, 1993
     
             State-sanctioned paranoia,  EE Times, January 22, 1996
     
             One man's battle,  EE Times, March 22, 1994
     
             Damn the torpedoes,  EE Times, June 6, 1994
     
             Protecting properly classified info,  EE Times, April 11,
             1994
     
             DOE to scrutinize fairness in old whistle-blower cases,
             Albuquerque Tribune, Nov 7 1995
     
             DOE boss accelerates whistle-blower protection,  Albuquerque
             Tribune, March 27, 1996
     
             DOE doesn't plan to compensate 'old' whistle-blowers with
             money, Albuquerque Tribune September 27, 199




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 21:05:54 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810010207.VAA15977@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: Matthew James Gering 
> Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
> Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 18:24:02 -0700

> Jim Choate wrote:
> > The reality is that we don't live in a free-market, but 
> > rather a rather lightly regulated one.
> 
> Lightly? You jest.

No I don't. I can start a business for as little as $15 to register a DBA
and I don't need licenses or other sorts of regulatory permissions. If I
sell a product or service (some are exempt, check your local area) I'll need
a tax number to pay my state sales tax (though they do nothing to regulate
my business other than specify that I must pay x% of my sales to the
community). Getting that tax number is free. Outside of that (at least in
Texas) I'm ready to go.

Yep, that's a lot of regulation, no forms or permission slips from some
in loco parentis, no reports or annual fees.

> No, we certainly don't live in a free market, we have
> a mixed economy. We *should* have a free market,

No we shouldn't. The fact that monopolies can exist in this lightly
regulated economy is ample evidence that the non-regulated or free-market
theory is nothing more than another pie-in-the-sky utopian dream.
Unrealistic and unrealizable.

If you seriously think this is a heavily regulated market you should do more
research into such places as Nazi Germany, Russia, China, etc.

> are much more destructive and pervasive than any potential abuses by
> market leaders.

Monopolies are monopolies, claiming that they will be less abusive in a
regulated market than in a free-market just demonstrates a lack of
understanding of basic human instincts.

You are claiming that if we do away with the food regulations that McDonalds
will be *more* concerned about their meat being cooked thoroughly then you
obviously don't understand people who chase the bottem line to the exclusion
of all else.

> Also, the latter abuses are naturally corrected by
> competition,

If a market monopolizes there is *NO* competition. If the market is one that
takes a large investment in intellectual or capital materials then there
won't be any opportunity to even attempt to start a competitive venture.

> The answer for establishing "rules" which insure "fairness," such as

Fairness is about the consumer, not the manufacturer. This misunderstanding
(if not intentional misdirection) by free-market mavens is at least one
indication why it won't work.

> competition. Make it a contractually issue and not a criminal one,

Contractual with who?

> reputation for punishment instead of life and liberty, 

Businesses are neither alive nor do they enjoy liberty. Don't confuse people
with systems and objects.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 21:09:16 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810010212.VAA16034@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 18:18:07 -0700 (PDT)
> From: RedRook 
> Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)

> Please elaborate. Netscape works fine on Windows 98, and faces the
> same restrictions with installation that original Windows 95 had. 

No Netscape on NT or 95/98 is no where near as stable as on a Linux or
Solaris box (the two that I use most). I can't go 24 hours on my NT for
example without Netscape hanging for some mysterious reason whereas I've
run Netscape (even on my HP 10.10) for days without a hang and those
mysterious pauses it's so famous for.
 
> As for Java, Java works as well on Windows as on any other platform. 

Yep, that explains why my NT's have to be rebooted almost daily because of
various issues and my various unix boxes go for weeks....yep, that's more
stable all right.

> It's funny how giving the customers more value for their money, always
> ends up being anti-competative.

How do you figure Win98 gives me more value for my money? I buy Win98 for
$100 or so, have to have gobs of memory and a damned fast processor to even
come close to the alternate OS'es.

> network, that they can quickly add a jillion features to any program,

And just as many bugs.

> and make so much money off of it, that it's difficult for anyone but a
> multi-million dollar company to compete

Only becuase they intentionly go after the smaller companies and create
various issues (eg the DrDos intentional break) that nearly guarantee that
smaller firms are out before they even start.

> And no, taking the browser out of Windows is not going to change that.

You have a penchant for random wandering....


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 21:11:53 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (and vague ideas for additions) (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810010214.VAA16092@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 03:00:21 +0200
> From: Anonymous 
> Subject: Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (and vague ideas for additions)

> The GNU GPL discourages the sale of proprietary software by prohibiting
> anything using code covered by the license from being proprietary, and
> that's right.

It does not prevent GPL'ed code from using proprietary licenses, it only
prevents companies from using GPL'ed code without first obtaining a non-GPL
licence from the original author of the code (who should deservedly get a
cut of the cash).

> Both these licenses would be trying to promote their propagators' goals
> through restrictions on code re-use.

Re-use *without* prior permission of the author and copyright holder,
be accurate.

[other stuff deleated]


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Twenty1CC@aol.com
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 20:29:28 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: What is AOL
Message-ID: <56d52044.3612da95@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Found in rec.homor.funny.reruns
>From rec.arts.sf.written, in a thread entitled "What is AOL?"
> An organization set up to give Internetters someone to make ethnic jokes
> about.
>
> --
> Arthur D. Hlavaty             hlavaty@panix.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Hohensee 
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 16:45:52 +0800
To: Derek Atkins 
Message-ID: <3612A767.94F23B58@is9.nyu.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Ahh, but it's not *you* who's putting the restrictions on your software,
but the U.S. government.  As far as I know (not that I'm a lawyer, or
anything) the U.S. govt. doesn't care what your license says --if it's
strong crypto, it's not supposed to be exported. 

The license is probably irrelevant, as far as import/export is
concerned.

Derek Atkins wrote:
> 
> The big issue I see with GPL and Crypto software is that with the GPL
> you cannot add any redistribution restrictions.  The problem is that
> due to the United States export rules, I cannot export Crypto
> software, which means I must legally put a restriction on any Crypto
> code I write.  But, this is a "further restriction" as far as the
> GPL is concerned.  This, in turn, means I cannot use the GPL for
> Crypto software.
> 
> -derek
> --
>        Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory
>        Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board  (SIPB)
>        URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/    PP-ASEL-IA     N1NWH
>        warlord@MIT.EDU                        PGP key available




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 21:51:49 +0800
To: users@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (SSZ User Mail List)
Subject: Data Haven mailing list is active again...
Message-ID: <199810010254.VAA16520@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text




Welcome to the Data Haven Mailing List

This list was originaly created by Douglas Floyd in order to focus
discussion and development on Data Haven technology. In late 1998 The
Armadillo Group took the list over since it was related to several current
lists that we support.

A data haven is a system that integrates cryptography, electronic funds
transfer, long term data storage, anonymous remailers, and usenet style news
mechanisms. The idea is that any two or more parties can participate in
providing services and information in an anonymous environment that supports
cryptographicly secured transactions. There are several architectures though
the only known operating data haven was Black Net. This was an experiment by
Tim May which examined the potential of anonymous transactions related to
sensitive information and potentialy illegal activities via usenet. It was
demonstrated successfuly.

If you would like to subscribe send majordomo@ssz.com a message with a blank
title and the body consisting of only:

subscribe dh-l

You should recieve a verification email and subsequent traffic. We hope to
provide a archive of the lists traffic, though there really hasn't been a
lot of it.

If you are interested in this sort of technology then consider subscribing
to one of the cypherpks CDR nodes as well as other more specialized lists.
The cypherpunks are focused on cryptography and its implimentation and
disimination, economic uses and impact of technology, and civil liberties.
It is a *VERY* high traffic international mailing list.

If you should have any problems please e-mail list@ssz.com for further help.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 00:31:43 +0800
To: Max Inux 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 6:43 PM -0700 9/30/98, Max Inux wrote:
>On Wed, 30 Sep 1998 2001files@usa.net wrote:
>
>Dear spammer,
>
>Nice threats are attached to this spam.  I love new ideas from the
>spamming community. Please be aware by not  including a real human email
>address (specifically stated) and a 1800 number to call to be removed,
>you are in violation of California law.

Think twice before citing this new law....

Whatever one thinks about unsolicited e-mail, the provisions of this new
California bill are frightening to any supporter of liberty.

* the requirement that mail have a "real" name attached to it runs afoul of
the right to anonymous messages, supported in various cases (Talley, for
example). A requirement that e-mail be identified is no different from a
requirement that pamphlets and articles have "real" names on them. So much
for the First Amendment.

(Oh, and the _commercial_ nature of UCE has nothing to do with the First
Amendment issues, unless one thinks the canonical First case, Sullivan, is
meaningless because the New York Times was "commercial speech.")

* think of the implications for anonymous messages, through remailers

* and where does the "must have a toll-free number" bullshit come from?
Think about it. It may sound _nice_ to demand that people have toll-free
numbers, but where is the constitutional support for such a taking?

And so on.

--Tim May

Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash.
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 22:09:43 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Forwarded mail...
Message-ID: <199810010311.WAA16871@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 04:55:13 +0200
> From: Anonymous 

> Why, if the ignition-controllers of cars are 
> CPUs, aren't cars theftproof without a 
> crypto-token?

Some cars now use a smart-key that is unique for each vehicle, though I'm
sure there are 'master keys'.

What a cool way to do rental cars.... insert your smart-card and it
activates and charges your account until reset by the rental agency on
return to a distributed system of drop-off points.

I noticed the other day we now have a washateria down on Guadalupe in the
old Antone's Club building that operates only by smart-card, no cash sign
right on the front door. There's a perfect application for something like
GNU/cash with a crypto/e$ module.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Vincent Cate 
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 21:12:59 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Wire transfers from web page?
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Does anyone know of any bank with software or a web page that lets you
give them wire-transfer instructions from over the internet?

How about a bank that lets you see where a wire transfer came from on the
web page interface?  I think dollarbank.com just says "incoming wire". 

How about a bank on the Internet that will accept instructions to write
and mail a check drawn on your account to any random person at any
address? 

Such things would make it really easy for random little guys to make
their own currency using e-commerce software.

  -- Vince


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 Vincent Cate                           Offshore Information Services
 Vince@Offshore.com.ai                  http://www.offshore.com.ai/
 Anguilla, BWI                          http://www.offshore.com.ai/vince
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

You have to take life as it happens, but you should try to make it
happen the way you want to take it.    - German Proverb




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 17:24:27 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: IP: Navy investigating GSU computer hacker
In-Reply-To: <199809302133.OAA25787@netcom13.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <199809302226.WAA05846@earth.wazoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



  > Someone used a Georgia Southern University writing and linguistics
  > department classroom computer to break into government files and
  > the U.S. Navy wants to know why.

  > [...]

  > "They ran a file transfer protocol program, which allows you to
  > download files and gain access to someone else's computer,"
  > Glacier said.

Ooooh, naughty, naughty!

"When FTP is outlawed, only outlaws will have FTP..."




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 01:52:35 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A1928471C@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate wrote:
> No Netscape on NT or 95/98 is no where near as stable as 
> on a Linux or Solaris box (the two that I use most).

Correct me if I am wrong or if this has changed since they went
open-source, but AFAIK Mozilla's Windows and Unix codebases were
entirely independent and separately developed, so I'm not sure what
conclusions you can draw from that.

> Yep, that explains why my NT's have to be rebooted almost daily 
> because of various issues and my various unix boxes go for weeks

Again, let's leave the OS wars off this list. I've had NT machines up
for several months and down only for patches and upgrades.

But Netscape pissed me off so severely during the version 2.x plethora
of releases with their alpha-quality javascript that I've not used it
since, so I cannot comment on its current [in]stability.

	Matt




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Bernardo B. Terrado" 
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 23:29:20 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: could you help.....
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




I found this example in a book 

It's about Homophonic  substitution and 
I can't figure how they did it , I mean how the other letters where
substituted


Here's the example

Suppose the alphabet is mapped into the numbers 1  to 99 then

map E to 17,19,23,47,64
map A to 8,20,25,49
map R to 1,29,65
map T to 16,31,85
but otherwise the ith letter maps to the 3ith letter

Then the cleartext
MANY A SLIP TWIXT THE CUP AND THE LIP

will become

  08    20        16      3185  17      25    16  47
3608397220543324451666246931852117066045253909162147332445

My question is what/how did they represent the other letters like L (etc.)
coz I've tried to map them and yet I still can't understand
I even wrote A to Z then map them to 1 to 99, I still can't figure it out.

Could you also give me an example for polygram substitution.

Thank you very much.
SALAMAT PO.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Some people they might say that I'm hard to get to know.
I go my own sweet way, well that maybe so.
Something about the crowd that makes me walk alone. 
I never had a need in me to be the party's life and soul.

It's me Bernie.
metaphone@altavista.net
``````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: fjaj732h@yahoo.com
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 11:11:25 +0800
To: 
Subject: Re: I missed you!
Message-ID: <199812150214.SAA15932@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: HyperReal-Anon 
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 18:57:11 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: your mail
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Mon, 31 Aug 1998, Clark, Beau (CLBM) wrote:

> 
> Remove
> 
> 

You've been hitting the super unleaded again, haven't you? I hope you
don't fart when around any open flames. You might blow everybody up.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 15:35:21 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re:
In-Reply-To: <67d557e1.35eb0495@aol.com>
Message-ID: <8ca082a3441e76fcc0f8029b292b425b@anonymous>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Mon, 31 Aug 1998 16:16:21 EDT  ILovToHack@aol.com wrote:

>Ibelive by spooks he ment goverment agents not a racial slur so lay off.

That's it!  The AOL'ers are grouping for a final stand against the sticker
location service (aka cypherpunks).  Time to jump ship!

UNSUBSKRIB   Yeah right!

GET ME OFF!


ThreeThree (toto's father)










From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 00:02:56 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199809010703.JAA12169@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Is this like flame baiting him? Personally I don't mind the comments :)

-----------

We don't take kindly to racial slurs here.  You'll probably be receiving
hundreds of email bombs over the next few days from angry
cypherpunks.  You may want to change email accounts.God bless!


At 08:19 PM 8/29/98 -0400, RyanFord@aol.com wrote:> hola and good
tidings 
>  send some info on spooks please >  i will be grateful> 








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Steve Bryan 
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 07:20:37 -0700 (PDT)
To: "Lars Weitze" 
Subject: Re: Is it true that PGP 5.X is not secure?
In-Reply-To: <001001bdd5a0$b7cef800$7b0000c8@chrome>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>There are still rumors about that...
>ChromeDemon
>- --
>"One dead is a tragedy, thousand deads are a statistic."
>        Karl Marx
>
>e-mail: chromedemon@netcologne.de
>http://chromedemon.home.pages.de
>http://www.netcologne.de/~nc-weitzela2
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>Version: PGP 5.5.5
>
>iQA/AwUBNevU0XnCsKPabtOfEQILcACfZ097WlD1pyA+2c7qv5RcyuYQJaEAoOmf
>mvg3B9F9NNv7qrHljjgC1T+B
>=J/8j
>-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Why pay attention to ill-supported rumors? The source code is publicly
available at www.pgpi.com. If there is a security issue then it can be
critiqued with reference to the places in the source code that are the
cause of the problem. If someone has done this, I haven't been paying close
enough attention and I apologize for ranting. If not, then I would dismiss
such claims as almost certainly baseless.

Steve Bryan
Vendorsystems International
email: sbryan@vendorsystems.com
icq: 5263678
pgp fingerprint: D758 183C 8B79 B28E 6D4C  2653 E476 82E6 DA7C 9AC5






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 00:22:11 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Is Hate Code Speech? YES
Message-ID: <199809010722.JAA14753@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


First off if she didn't like the code she could have quit.  Laws that
say a company has to change their internal practices to make the
workers happy are idiotic.  I can't sue because the men's bathroom
looks like crap and the wemans has a couch in it!  If the program code
was meant for distribution it might be a little different but still
you have the choice not to get that code.  The same as reading this
message a few lines in you could delete it!  You chose to read this
far.  The code is internal only and thus should require an internal
policy, not an outside law enforcement agency.  As far as speach: If
it wasn't a form of speech she would have not gotten offended.  She
was offended by the language in the source code and thus the speech.
get a job somewhere you feel comfortable, don't get a job and force
them to change things around you


---"Albert P. Franco, II"  wrote:
>
> >From: mcw@atreus.ncs.ncsc.mil
> >Subject: Is Hate Code Speech?
> >
> 
> 
> >I acknowledge that you're welcome to use whatever variable names you
> >want in code you write in private. BUt if you want to sell that
code, it
> >should be held to a standard of professionalism.
> >
> 
> I think it is interesting that people are speaking of  the program as
> something published for public consumption. Source code for commercial
> products rarely goes public and compilers do a rather nice job of
obscuring
> human language variable names. Thus if there is any message or
coherent
> agenda in the source code it is highly unlikely that it will be
detectable
> in the executable, which is in fact the product delivered to the
public.
> 
> Since the source code can only be read by insiders/employees then
this does
> tend to make it rather obvious that a form of speech was intended. I
won't
> rehash the fact that non-relevant, human-language-significant variable
> names (as opposed to x, y, i, & j) are generally unacceptable
programming
> practice. I would make two points; that in todays programming world
source
> code is protected by copyright law as are other forms of expression
legally
> considered speech and source code is intended to document the
process and
> as such communicate ideas--in a broad sense this is a decent
description of
> speech, a written mode of communicating ideas. 
> 
> If someone finds offensive (hate) material in an obscured text
(encrypted)
> intended for limited distribution, does the encryption make it less
> hateful? does the encryption make it any less a form of speech? does
the
> fact that distribution is limited (assumming the "target" is in the
> distribution class) make it any less offensive? Is a crime less
illegal if
> it is hidden? (Be careful, on this one...)
> 
> I think that offensive, probably hateful, speech was intended. So
the next
> step (or for others, a previous step) is to decide whether there are
legal
> grounds for action. There are several laws which do, in fact, make
these
> activities illegal. Most people in the US today agree that overt
racism is
> wrong. Additionally, most "Americans" agree with laws that make it
illegal
> to use/perform "hateful" speech. 
> 
> These are very dangerous laws since they try to tread a very thin line
> between the freedom of thoughts (and to some degree, actions) and
injury to
> others. When I first settled down to live in Spain and began to pay
real
> attention to the local political scene I was astonished to find people
> defending the "right" of the radicals to throw stones and metal
objects at
> those persons expressing ideas contrary to theirs (pro-peace,
> anti-terrorism demonstrations, 1995-6). Fortunately, we hear less
and less
> of this non-sense that physical harm to another is a valid form of
personal
> expression or speech. But the base problem lingers, where do we draw
the
> line of expression of ideas and intent to do harm. It has long been
held
> that shouting "fire" in a crowded building is not a protected form of
> speech. Nor is libel (forgetting for now the problems of defining or
> proving it). And where do we draw the line (or does it even matter?)
> between public and private? And where do expression and action get
> separated? Thinking about doing something, or telling some one about
those
> thoughts are not generally the same as actually doing it. But where
does
> thought become expression become action?
> 
> This case doesn't solely revolve around the speech issue...IMO, it
also
> revolves around the public/private issue, and whether or not the
government
> can rightfully "enter" a "private" business place to regulate these
> matters. Recent history (80 years or so...) shows an increasing
tendency
> for the government to "protect" workers by regulating the workplace.
There
> are health & safety regs, minimum wage regs, etc. The "American"
populace
> has in general supported (and at times demanded) these external
limits on
> the "private" employer/employee relationship. Legal precedent exists.
> 
> There are two problems here and historically the government has been
called
> upon to keep a balance between "free speech" and "harmful speech" on
the
> one hand and "Privacy" and "Protection" on the other hand. The
debate now
> is with this case which way will (should?) the pendulum swing? More
> protection (reduction of privacy), more freedom (or hateful
speech)... 
> 
> Personally, I hope no one wins this eternal debate 100% since the
results
> would be disastrous.
> 
> Just some thoughts...
> 
> Albert P. Franco, II
> encryption@apf2.com
> 
> 

==

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 08:34:25 -0700 (PDT)
To: sjmz@hplb.hpl.hp.com
Subject: Threaded code's place
Message-ID: <35EC12E4.1B6C@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Tuesday 9/1/98 9:00 AM

Alexander Wolfe

I spoke to Richard Hanson yesterday afternoon.

He got the e-mail referencing

http://www.eet.com/news/98/1024news/java.html

I wrote the attached WEED KILLER addition for an SBIR proposal submitted
by several profs at Texas A&M and a Sandia physicist.

Threaded code can 'save-the-day' on some types of projects but doesn't
work very well on others.  I wrote in the preface of my 8051 forth book

 FORTH is applicable to hardware intensive projects        
 implemented by one, two, or three workers.  Robots,        
 computer numerical controlled machines, weapons        
 programmers, cryptographic processors, engine        
 controllers, unmanned observatories, computer hardware        
 debuggers, laser printer graphics controllers, video        
 games, work station device drivers, writing BASICs are        
 all candidates for FORTH software technology.  FORTH is        
 a one of the top choices for embedded controller        
 applications.       

AFTER publication of my SANDIA-APPROVED BOOK, I learned FROM NSA

1  the former ussr uses Forth to fuze it weapons systems
2  builds a military version of the 8051.

Oh dear.

/http://www.apcatalog.com/cgi-bin/AP?ISBN=0125475705&LOCATION=US&FORM=FORM2  

http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/javavm/ gives the definition of the
Java verbs.

Charles Moore, Forth's inventor, is writing the ShBoom Java compiler
http://www.ptsc.com/

The green machine at http://www.metriguard.com/HCLT.HTM runs using the
Forth from my book.

Since I was fired I have been doing mostly MASM and Visual Basic
programming.

This is good for me since I gives me a different perspective from
standalone
Forth and Forth assembler which I did at Sandia.

Visual Basic is more like Fortran than traditional basics.

                      Implementing Basics : How Basics Work 
                 William H. and Patricia Payne / Published 1982 
http://www.amazon.com

Your article on Java and its future was VERY INFORMATIVE.

I SPECULATE that Java will see about the same success as Forth.

I am working on completion of the digital FX Model 2600FX Ultrasonic
Veneer Tester
http://www.metriguard.com/METPROD.HTM which uses a 80C32 micrcontroller
interfacing
to a Windows PC though an ieee 1284 ecp port.

The 80C32 software is written in Forth and Forth assembler.  The Windows
since is 
written in Visual Basic and MASM Windows dlls.

Forth on the 80C32 is a NATURAL.  One the PC side Forth is not suitable
- except for
interactive exploring super i/o chips. 
http://www.smsc.com/main/datasheet.html 

Loring Wirbel WROTE SCATHING articles about NSA when Girish Mahtre was
editor of EET.
But since CMP took over, Loring's articles have been more subdued.

This is the reason I sent Wirbel a copy of my offending tech report. 
http://jya.com/da/whpda.htm

Loring has been superhelpful to see that I am not buried in the Great
Satan's invisible
cemetery. And in one article wrote the paragraph

  Next in my in-basket was a set of reprints from the Baltimore Sun from
the paper's NSA series,   which ran in early December. The series
reveals the setup by the NSA and CIA of a new covert    collection
agency, the Special Collection Service, and details the case of Hans
Buehler, an     employee of Crypto A.G. who was thrown into an Iranian
prison after getting snared in a         Crypto/NSA sting against that
country.  http://www.jya.com/whp1.htm

which was read by Iranian engineers.

A week ago I mailed a copy of the Swiss Radio International tape to
http://www.qainfo.se/~lb/crypto_ag.htm

Lazlo Baranyi plans to post the audio plus translations of the German at
his web site, Baranyi wrote me.

I want settlement, my money and out of this crypto mess.  

Loring Wirbel and EET has been a GREAT HELP. Along with other
journalists, including Pulitzer Prize-winner Tamar Stieber, too.

bill payne


         	WEED KILLER computer interface proposal section 7/27/98 10:11 AM

Solution to controlling and collecting data from the WEED KILLER involves interfacing a personal computer
running a version of the Windows operating system to the WEED KILLER analog/digital hardware.

Windows is not a real-time operating system, therefore  microcontroller controller/collector hardware 
interface must be installed between a Wintel PC and the WEED KILLER hardware.

Essence of the Wintel data collector problem is that Windows 3.x or 9x responds to a hardware interrupt
usually between 70 to 150 microseconds.  In rare occasions the interrupt latency may extend to 1.5 
milliseconds or even longer.  A microcontroller responds to an interrupt in several microseconds.

Wintel hardware controller interface is even more difficult than collection for the reason that the Windows 
operating system only gives control to an application when Windows decides.  In the collection, mode at
least a hardware interrupt signals Windows that the application wants control.  However, the microcontroller
can send the Wintel an interrupt asking the applications code whether there is any message it needs to
send the microcontroller.

Microcontrollers have specialized timers, serial expansion ports and are, therefore, designed to be interfaced to 
analog and digital hardware. 

An 80C32 family microcontroller is proposed for the WEED KILLER application for reasons.

1  The 80C32 will do the job.

2  Multiple vendors of 80C32 guarantee future supply at a competitive price.  Current suppliers include
 Intel, AMD, Winbond, Dallas, Philips, Siemens, OKI,  ATMEL, ... 

3  High-speed parallel port bi-directional IEEE 1284 enhanced capability port 9 (ecp) communications 
hardware between an 80C32 and PC is in the final stage of development.

4  IEEE 1284 hardware drivers are supplied with Windows NT.  Custom assembler dll drivers are available
for 9x and 3.x.

5  A public-domain Forth 8051 operating system hosting a high-level language and interactive assembler with 
complete source code documentation is available on Internet. http://jya.com/f86/whpf86.htm

Hardcover book further documenting 5 is available from Academic Press.
http://www.apcatalog.com/cgi-bin/AP?ISBN=0125475705&LOCATION=US&FORM=FORM2

Only a Wintel machine is required for both hardware and software for the WEED KILLER project.  

Usually a Forth hardware/software development probject on requres a voltmeter, logic probe, and, 
infrequently, an oscilloscope.  Reason  is the INTERACTIVE control of the hardware and software
from a PC keyboard and diagnostic information easily printed to a PC monitor.

Justification for assertion made in the above paragraph comes from Internet.

NASA uses Forth extensively for its space programs. http://groucho.gsfc.nasa.gov/forth/

Ballard used polyForth http://av.yahoo.com/bin/query?p=polyforth&z=2&hc=0&hs=0
to locate wrecks of the Titanic, Bismarck, and Yorktown.
http://www.nationalgeographic.com/features/98/midway

Sun Microsystems workstation boot into Forth then invokes Solaris. http://playground.sun.com/pub/1275/

Adobe Postscript is a version of Forth. 
http://www.mactech.com/articles/mactech/language/forth-postscript.html

Video game software are written mostly in Forth.

The Wintel side of the WEED KILLER project will be most-likely written in a small
amount of assembler interface code and Visual Basic.

While Forth threaded code software technology is extremely valuable in some settings,
it is not in others.

Java is a variation of Forth.  http://www.mrl.nyu.edu/meyer/jvmref/

Future of Java on Wintel machines is unclear at this time.

For example,

  The hottest items among techies is a browser called Opera.   
  This is a $40 shareware program that in speed and compact   
  size buts both IE and Communicator to shame.  It has a slightly   
  different interface from either of the majors - an interface some find    
  refreshing while other find less than useful.  As it's shareware, you can   
  try and then buy if you like it.  One reason for its speed is that it ignores   
  Java - the Internet's Bandwidth Pig (IBP).   
 
  The Rumor Mill by Paul Cassel
  ComputerScene Magazine  July 1998   
   
Forth executes code High-level at about 10% the speed of a compiled high-level
language.

Speed of execution of small applications is not effected by Forth's slow execution.

Reason is that initial code is written in high-level Forth.  

Inner loops are then translated into Forth assembler.

Speed is maintained with the advantage that data structures are created an maintained in
high-level language while the interactive operating system is retained for trouble shooting
both hardware and software problem.

Hardware cost of building the 80C32 the WEED KILLER boards is estimated at $10k.

Hardware design is estimated at 1 month labor at $50/hr for a total of $8k.

Software development on the 80C32 side in Forth and Forth assembler, software on the
Wintel side in Visual Basic and assembler, documentation, and training is estimated to
be 4 months for a total of $32k
   
 /\/\/\
end



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: CF ASSOCIATES 
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 10:07:26 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: ...Are You In Need Of A Lifestyle Change...?
Message-ID: <419.436039.54271910FREE82698@yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Now for the first time ever you have the opportunity to join the most
extraordinary and most powerful wealth building program in the world!
Because of your desire to succeed, you have been given the opportunity
to take a close look at this program.

If you're skeptical, that's okay. Just make the call and see for
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decision.

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This Is Not Multi Level Marketing/Serious Inquiries Only

This is a one-time mailing. When you visited one of our webpages you indicated 
that you would be interested in this information, if not please excuse 
the intrusion and simply delete this message. 
Thank you















From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 10:08:04 -0700 (PDT)
To: Jean-Francois Avon 
Subject: Re: BEWARE of SnakeOil (tm)
In-Reply-To: <199809010246.WAA26608@cti06.citenet.net>
Message-ID: <35EC2A76.2B83@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Jean-Francois Avon wrote:
> 
> SNAKEOIL ALERT:
> Cc: Cypherpunks@toad.com
> 
> - beware of any product that has not been *extensively* peer-reviewed, with *all* the
> source code made public.  Security breaches are *very* easy to overlook and no software
> should *ever* be used unless it was peer-reviewed.
> 
I'm a bit surprised that I don't see quite as much concern expressed
about hardware. If security is the goal isn't HW part of the chain?
Yeah, yeah, I know, there was a blip a while ago about Intel chips, 
Microsoft kernels and keyboard snooping but it had a depressingly short
half-life. Seems to me it would be pretty easy to create rfi on a chip
and get products through FCC approval with NSA blessing. Hell, you could
probably put a good amount of FLASH on a chip and give the OS a nice
safe place to store snooped stuff. The security gaps that could be
created in an operating system are as numerous as scoundrels in
Parliament.

> They try pursue anybody who violates ITAR in a public way.  If I were to walk with a
> PGP diskette across the border outside Cana-USA, I would be liable under ITAR even if I
> never wrote a line of software in my life.
> 
Literally true but we all know the analogy of borders and speedbumps...

> All the govts have vested interest in disseminating pseudo-strong cryptography.  This
> statement is not paranoia, it is recent and regularly recurring history.
> 
Doesn't this seem to point to the need for products with a CP seal of
approval? HW/SW/Tools?

Mike

I think that in the secure communications world I would rather be a wolf
amongst sheep in wolfskins than a wolf in sheep's clothing. It would
reduce the chances of my hide being nailed to the barn door. What I'm
trying to say in a less than literate way is that the issue will only be
closed when there are $99 consumer products that implement secure
systems.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Global Web Builders 
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 19:11:43 -0700 (PDT)
To: (Recipient list suppressed)
Subject: One Nation in the upcoming Federal Election
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980901011806.0084e2b4@gwb.com.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Dear One Nation supporter in NSW

Now that an election has been called your support in the lead up to and
during the Federal Election will be critical.

It is quite clear that the major parties are funded by big business at this
time and the people's party, Pauline Hanson's One Nation, will need to use
the will and common sense of the people to make an impact at this election.
We do not expect any favours from the mainstream media.

I would sincerely request that you take a stand against the current
political system that has not served us well and show your support by
contacting the people listed below by email or phone to see how you can help
at this critical time. As our mailing list now numbers over 10,000 please do
not send your request to me UNLESS you reside in the state of Queensland:

New South Wales - Phone: 02 9976 0283 (Manly Head Office)
Victoria - Phone: 03 5229 6535
Northern Territory - Phone/Fax: 08 8948 3537
Queensland: gwb@gwb.com.au
ACT - Email: petermac@netinfo.com.au 
S Australia - Email: robert@adl.auslink.net
W Australia - Email: martin@collective.com.au

Here are the important Internet addresses to follow:

ON-LINE NOW
One Nation Federal Web Page:
http://www.gwb.com.au/onenation/federal

One Nation Upper and Lower House Candidates:
http://www.gwb.com.au/onenation/federal/candi

There is a very active on-line forum with real time chat where you can
present issues directly to One Nation MPs and candidates. Follow
instructions from:
http://www.gwb.com.au/onenation/forum.html

>From Thursday evening (3rd September):
One Nation Tax Policy: 
http://www.gwb.com.au/tax.htm

Please feel free to print out policies and press releases freely and
encourage your friends to find out what One Nation really stands for by
copying and distributing this email.

Every vote will help.

GWB


Scott Balson
Pauline Hanson's Web Master





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Barry M 
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 12:03:17 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <19980901190338.28710.rocketmail@send104.yahoomail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain








_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: pagewstuff 
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 13:25:07 -0700 (PDT)
To: fight-censorship@vorlon.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Child-Molesting Forger's Chilling Confession!!!1!
Message-ID: <199809012024.NAA18437@mail1.bctel.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Encrypted_Message=On 4 May 1998 02:57:07 GMT, in article <6ijaq3$bb1@news1.panix.com>,
 Information Security (= Guy Polis ) wrote:
#   Guy Polis (guy@panix.com, eviljay@bway.net) is a pedophile child
#   molester who was fired from his consulting position at Salomon Brothers
#   after he was caught masturbating in his cubicle at the child pornography
#   JPEGs that he downloaded from the Internet.

The poster's been awful quiet lately - did the feds arrest him?
Browser=Netscape:Mozilla/3.01C-SYMPA  (Win16; I)
Remedy=Tell the world





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: pagewstuff 
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 13:25:39 -0700 (PDT)
To: fight-censorship@vorlon.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Child-Molesting Forger's Chilling Confession!!!1!
Message-ID: <199809012025.NAA19524@mail1.bctel.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: application/x-www-form-urlencoded

application/www-form-urlencoded


From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: pagewstuff 
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 13:25:47 -0700 (PDT)
To: fight-censorship@vorlon.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Child-Molesting Forger's Chilling Confession!!!1!
Message-ID: <199809012025.NAA19697@mail1.bctel.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: application/x-www-form-urlencoded

application/www-form-urlencoded


From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Lars Weitze" 
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 04:06:36 -0700 (PDT)
To: "Cypherpunks" 
Subject: Is it true that PGP 5.X is not secure?
Message-ID: <001001bdd5a0$b7cef800$7b0000c8@chrome>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

There are still rumors about that...
ChromeDemon
- -- 
"One dead is a tragedy, thousand deads are a statistic."
        Karl Marx

e-mail: chromedemon@netcologne.de
http://chromedemon.home.pages.de
http://www.netcologne.de/~nc-weitzela2
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP 5.5.5

iQA/AwUBNevU0XnCsKPabtOfEQILcACfZ097WlD1pyA+2c7qv5RcyuYQJaEAoOmf
mvg3B9F9NNv7qrHljjgC1T+B
=J/8j
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Trei, Peter" 
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 10:06:57 -0700 (PDT)
To: "'cypherpunks@toad.com>
Subject: Meganet redux...
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Anyone want to educate these people as
to the general consensus on VME?


Peter

-------------------------------------
http://www.infoseek.com/Content?arn=BW0169-19980901&qt=RSA,+SDTI,+%22Securit
y+Dynamics%22,+Informix,+Xerox,+Tandem,+Encryption,+Cryptography,+Authentica
tion,+Certification,+%22University+of+Colorado%22&sv=IS&lk=&col=NX&kt=A&ak=n
ews1486

Multibillion-Dollar International Corporation
Purchases the 1-Million-Bit, Unbreakable
Virtual Matrix Encryption to Protect Its
Computers 
10:01 a.m. Sep 01, 1998 Eastern 

TARZANA, Calif.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Sept. 1, 1998-- 

The $1.2 Million Challenge is Still Uncompromised After
Five Months 

Meganet Corp., which challenged Microsoft
(Nasdaq:MSFT), Intel (Nasdaq:INTC), Dell
(Nasdaq:DELL), AT&T (NYSE:ATT), NCR (NYSE:NCR)
and many other high-tech companies with its unbreakable
1-million-bit Virtual Matrix Encryption (VME), has sold and
installed Virtual Matrix Encryption at the headquarters of
La-Curacao, a multibillion-dollar international corporation. 
[...]




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Albert P. Franco, II" 
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 04:45:04 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Is Hate Code Speech?
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980901132117.006bcad0@apf2.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


>From: mcw@atreus.ncs.ncsc.mil
>Subject: Is Hate Code Speech?
>


>I acknowledge that you're welcome to use whatever variable names you
>want in code you write in private. BUt if you want to sell that code, it
>should be held to a standard of professionalism.
>

I think it is interesting that people are speaking of  the program as
something published for public consumption. Source code for commercial
products rarely goes public and compilers do a rather nice job of obscuring
human language variable names. Thus if there is any message or coherent
agenda in the source code it is highly unlikely that it will be detectable
in the executable, which is in fact the product delivered to the public.

Since the source code can only be read by insiders/employees then this does
tend to make it rather obvious that a form of speech was intended. I won't
rehash the fact that non-relevant, human-language-significant variable
names (as opposed to x, y, i, & j) are generally unacceptable programming
practice. I would make two points; that in todays programming world source
code is protected by copyright law as are other forms of expression legally
considered speech and source code is intended to document the process and
as such communicate ideas--in a broad sense this is a decent description of
speech, a written mode of communicating ideas. 

If someone finds offensive (hate) material in an obscured text (encrypted)
intended for limited distribution, does the encryption make it less
hateful? does the encryption make it any less a form of speech? does the
fact that distribution is limited (assumming the "target" is in the
distribution class) make it any less offensive? Is a crime less illegal if
it is hidden? (Be careful, on this one...)

I think that offensive, probably hateful, speech was intended. So the next
step (or for others, a previous step) is to decide whether there are legal
grounds for action. There are several laws which do, in fact, make these
activities illegal. Most people in the US today agree that overt racism is
wrong. Additionally, most "Americans" agree with laws that make it illegal
to use/perform "hateful" speech. 

These are very dangerous laws since they try to tread a very thin line
between the freedom of thoughts (and to some degree, actions) and injury to
others. When I first settled down to live in Spain and began to pay real
attention to the local political scene I was astonished to find people
defending the "right" of the radicals to throw stones and metal objects at
those persons expressing ideas contrary to theirs (pro-peace,
anti-terrorism demonstrations, 1995-6). Fortunately, we hear less and less
of this non-sense that physical harm to another is a valid form of personal
expression or speech. But the base problem lingers, where do we draw the
line of expression of ideas and intent to do harm. It has long been held
that shouting "fire" in a crowded building is not a protected form of
speech. Nor is libel (forgetting for now the problems of defining or
proving it). And where do we draw the line (or does it even matter?)
between public and private? And where do expression and action get
separated? Thinking about doing something, or telling some one about those
thoughts are not generally the same as actually doing it. But where does
thought become expression become action?

This case doesn't solely revolve around the speech issue...IMO, it also
revolves around the public/private issue, and whether or not the government
can rightfully "enter" a "private" business place to regulate these
matters. Recent history (80 years or so...) shows an increasing tendency
for the government to "protect" workers by regulating the workplace. There
are health & safety regs, minimum wage regs, etc. The "American" populace
has in general supported (and at times demanded) these external limits on
the "private" employer/employee relationship. Legal precedent exists.

There are two problems here and historically the government has been called
upon to keep a balance between "free speech" and "harmful speech" on the
one hand and "Privacy" and "Protection" on the other hand. The debate now
is with this case which way will (should?) the pendulum swing? More
protection (reduction of privacy), more freedom (or hateful speech)... 

Personally, I hope no one wins this eternal debate 100% since the results
would be disastrous.

Just some thoughts...

Albert P. Franco, II
encryption@apf2.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mok-Kong Shen 
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 05:45:13 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Is it true that PGP 5.X is not secure?
In-Reply-To: <001001bdd5a0$b7cef800$7b0000c8@chrome>
Message-ID: <35EBEC0F.3EE4869E@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Lars Weitze wrote:
>  
> There are still rumors about that...

My humble knowledge does not permit my answering your question.
However, I suppose your question is problematical. It is difficult
to define security, or more precisely a scientifcally rigorous
measure of security. I don't think that it is sensible to talk about 
absolute security without reference to a context (environment). In 
my view there is no 'perfect' encryption system in the practical
world. If by 'not secure' you meant something that malicious persons 
have secretely manipulated to cause you damage, then I also don't 
know but I guess that to be highly unlikely, given the good historical 
record of PGP. 

M. K. Shen




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: CTIA Daily News 
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 13:43:19 -0700 (PDT)
To: CTIA Daily News 
Subject: CTIA Daily News from WOW-COM - September 1, 1998
Message-ID: <199809012041.PAA10746@revnet3.revnet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary..3996.1071713804.multipart/mixed"

--Boundary..3996.1071713804.multipart/mixed
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit




==========================================
Welcome to today's edition of the CTIA Daily News
from WOW-COM.  Please click on the icon / attachment
for the most important news in wireless communications today.

A new multi-billion dollar industry is here! 
Be at CTIA's WIRELESS I.T. '98
where personal computing and communications converge!

Don't Miss Your Chance -- October 12-14, 1998
Bally's Las Vegas, Las Vegas, NV

For more information, visit http://www.wirelessit.com 
===========================================
 




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bnRlcmVzdGVkCmluIHJlY2VpdmluZyB0aGUgQ1RJQSBEYWlseSBOZXdzIGZy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--Boundary..3996.1071713804.multipart/mixed--



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 08:54:13 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199809011554.RAA09212@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I believe by spooks he meant that you should go jump off a building before
you further insult the intelligence of the rest of the known universe.  Lord
knows you've already insulted mine enough that I'd be willing to come up
there with you and do the pushing.  Fucking dolt.


At 04:16 PM 8/31/98 -0400, ILovToHack@aol.com wrote:
>Ibelive by spooks he ment goverment agents not a racial slur so lay off.
> 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Martin ELLISON 
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 02:05:35 -0700 (PDT)
To: fight-censorship@vorlon.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Child-Molesting Forger's Chilling Confession!!!1!
Message-ID: <199809010904.TAA23375@kryton.mpce.mq.edu.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: application/x-www-form-urlencoded

application/www-form-urlencoded


From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Alia Johnson 
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 19:15:33 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: toto
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


My brother, Carl E. Johnson aka C.J.Parker aka toto has asked me to let
you know that he is in prison in Florence, Arizona near Tucson under
federal charges of threatening the life of a federal officer. He was being
followed in connection with the Jim Bell case. 

He is in medical lockup and isolation, without the meds he needs for his
condition of Tourettes' syndrome. He is suffering but not incoherent.

He asked me to mention Cafe Gulag and John Young, but had to speak very
briefly so I do not know exactly what is happening. He is scheduled for a
hearing in federal court in Tucson on September 4, this Friday. I may be
there.

Alia Johnson





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED NEWS DAILY 
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 14:39:44 -0700 (PDT)
To: (STUFFED TUESDAY SEPTEMBER 1 1998)
Subject: FONDLE ME BILL: HILARIOUS NEW DOLL/OVER TWO DOZEN FREE JPEGS
Message-ID: <19980901194916.18753.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


The pics just keep on coming. And so do the amazin but
true news stories, as well as all the other goodies...

+ 28+ FREE HI-RES JPEGS
+ PAGE 2 'SPREAD' - YOU'LL LOVE THIS ONE
+ BEDDER SEX: WORKERS SPRING TO ACTION
+ HEAVEN'S GATE ANALYZED BY DR. SUSAN BLOCK PHD
+ MILE HIGH STUCK: PALAVER ON A PLANE
+ TOP 10 MALE & FEMALE FANTASIES: THIS IS HOT!
+ PANTY SPICE: WE SNIFF OUT A GREAT STORY
+ THUMBNAIL HEAVEN: MORE STUPENDOUS FREE JPEGS
+ TODAY'S SEXY STORY: 'THE SWITCH'
+ YOUR TRUE SEX SECRETS: TODAY A SELECTION OF YOUR LETTERS
+ MORE OF THE BEST WEB SITES EVER REVIEWED IN EUREKA!
+ SEXY SURPRISE THUMBS: A SURPRISE WITH EACH CLICK
+ SUPER HI-RES POSTER PIC: SAVE OR PRINT IT!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/98/9/1/   <----

Welcome to  today's  issue of Stuffed. To read it you should
click on the URL above.  If it is not made clickable by your
email program  you will need to  use your mouse to highlight
the URL,  copy it and then paste it into your browser  (then
press Return).

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/98/9/1/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 19:25:38 -0700 (PDT)
To: abumujahid@taliban.com
Subject: Rumsfeld Commission report & conclusions
Message-ID: <35ECAB77.299D@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Tuesday 9/1/98 7:54 PM

John Young

Nice to talk to you TWICE tonight.

I did not realize the importance of the documents I was given until 
I read them.

>From page 3

  The Rumsfeld Commission -  the commission to Assess the Ballistic    
Missile Threat to the United Sates

  .  Donald Rumsfeld
  .  Larry Welch
  .  Bill Schneider
  .  Bill Graham
  .  Bary Bleckman
  .  Richard Garwin
  .  Lee Butler

Page 14 reads

  A quick walk around the globe: Iran

  .  Placing exgraordinary interest in its WMD and ballistic
     missile programs

  .  Program benefite from a broad, long-time assistance from Russia.

  .  Development program have taken on a new phase - getting Russia's
     most modern equipement.

  . Getting assistance from China, North Korea, Pakistan as well.

  . Able to pay well for military technology - in $.

...

and ALL OF THIS IS AUTHORED BY Sandia President C Paul Robinson!

Who I saw on CBS TV tonight!

Durham

   H. B. Durham who served as project leader; 

http://jya.com/da/whpda.htm served as Robinson's technical advisor
in Geneva.

Hope jya.com readers enjoy.

I will put the document in an express mailer to you.

Let's all hope for settlement before this matter gets worse.

bill






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Marc Maffei" 
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 21:00:33 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: Re:
Message-ID: <02cf01bdd623$7fbaf440$532c15d1@marcmaff>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


hurray and I am also sorry to give this thread a longer lease in life but
hip hip hurray for the suggestion
-----Original Message-----
From: jkthomson 
To: ILovToHack@aol.com ; cypherpunks@toad.com

Date: Monday, August 31, 1998 4:13 PM
Subject: Re:


>At 04:16 PM 8/31/98 EDT, ILovToHack@aol.com wrote:
>>Ibelive by spooks he ment goverment agents not a racial slur so lay off.
>
>trust me, it's ok, he was using '32-bit AOL' to post his message, so
>EVERYONE but you realized that he was talking about garbage anyway.  maybe
>AOL64 will have a clue(tm) built in.
>
>
>an appeal to listmembers:
>
>listmembers, can't we make this list 'request for access'?  iLoV2HaCk and
>his AOL ilk are getting a little too 'elite' and 'k-rad' for me. pipebombs,
>posters, spooks, music, what the hell is happening to this list?  I know
>that I mainly lurk, but don't you think that having to request to join this
>list may filter out the worst of the AOL (et al) newbies?  they obviously
>cannot get a clue(tm) and continue to cause a landslide of off-topic
>(albeit funny) posts that ridicule them, and keep this list awash in
>non-cypherpunkish dialogue.
>
>oh, and I am also sorry for perpetuating this thread.
>
>
>
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
> james 'keith' thomson   www.bigfoot.com/~ceildh
> jkthomson:C181 991A 405C EAFB 2C46 79B5 B1DC DB78 8196 122D [06.07.98]
> ceildh   :1D79 59AF ED75 5945 6003 8240 DA34 ACCA 9DE4 6BC9 [05.14.98]
> ICQ:746241  at pgp.mit.edu     ...and former sysop of tnbnog BBS
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>The people to worry about are not those who openly disagree with you,
>but those who disagree with you who are too cowardly to let you know.
>=======================================================================
>
>





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Marc Maffei" 
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 21:03:04 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: Re: DES Ecryption
Message-ID: <02de01bdd623$dbe29160$532c15d1@marcmaff>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


The exception that proves the rule

-----Original Message-----
From: FTPPork@aol.com 
To: cypherpunks@toad.com 
Date: Monday, August 31, 1998 5:08 PM
Subject: DES Ecryption


>Hey, could anyone tell me what process DES Encryption goes through, or
point
>me to a site with the information?
>
>Thanx
>-Buzz-
>P.S. Please no flames because I am on AOL...
>
>





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ckzbyfaxzzz@sprintmail.com
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 22:37:51 -0700 (PDT)
To: ckzbyfaxzzz@sprintmail.com
Subject: $39-700 Engines
Message-ID: <199809020404.VAA02153@littonlcs.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


___________________________________________________________
***EXTENDED FOR ONE MORE WEEK****



!!! 700 SEARCH ENGINES                                   MI5

HOME PAGE OR BUSINESS SITE!!!!!!!!*************

HURRY...THIS SPECIAL PRICE WON'T LAST LONG!!!!!  

ONLY $39

(WE HAVE TAKEN THE WORRY OUT OF INTERNET TRANSACTIONS
---SEE BELOW)


Thats right, this is not a mistake, we will submit your Website to 700 search
engines and directories for $39.  

!!!!!PLUS WE WILL PROVIDE YOU WITH A REPORT SHOWING ALL 
SUCCESFULL SUBMISSIONS!!!!



Just print out the form below and fax it us us for immediate processing. (Do not
reply via e-mail)

Name:

Name of Company:

Address:

Site URL: http://


E-mail Address:

Title of site: (25 words or less)



Description of site: (50 words or less)




Keywords: (6 total, most important first)


Phone Number:


Payment can be made by faxing a copy of your check to 714 768-3650 payable to: K.L.E.N.T. (we will
import the information from your check into our check processing software for
deposit into our bank, no need to mail check).

Or, you can pay by credit card, just fill out information and fax your info
to us and we will contact you and give you our secure URL for credit
card transactions...DO NOT INCLUDE CREDIT CARD INFO ON THIS FORM!!

If you wish information, please fax this form with your phone number that you can
be reached and one of our agents will contact you..

Worry free transaction---upon receipt of your faxed check (make out to K.L.E.N.T. ) we will submit your
site within 48 hours...it takes anywhere from 5-10 days for your faxed check to clear
your bank.  If we do not do as we say, you would have plenty of time to stop
payment on your check.  Now,  we are in the position of trusting you, as we have
already done the work and your check has not even been paid...sorry to say that we
do on occasion get a NSF check, however there are many more people that are
honorable and do not stick us with a NSF check after we have done the work. 

Credit card holders are always protected against non-delivery of product or service
through the credit card companys, now we protect our customers that pay by check
as well...I don't think you will find many companys that will do what we are doing
in order to protect the consumer.. 

We have been in business for about 3years dealing on the internet and know how
frustrating it can be dealing with someone you don't even know.   I hope that our
offer creates the validity needed in order to provide you with the service that we
provide our customers.

Ken                                                                                           MI5

K.L.E.N.T.

P.S. Reservations will only be accepted with paid orders......Thank You!
Please fax a copy of your check along with the above form....






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "MD Dodson" 
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 20:32:59 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: mailing list
Message-ID: <19980902033224.JLEB28209@default>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


how do I join?

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0
Charset: noconv

iQA/AwUBNca0hLNh2iowZ/KwEQKxxQCgzKYsHhEE71BD9cAV/ODXu9fSqs0Anipr
uLAbQMdQzZIMP0qZcp5nDwnD
=GVxP
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 21:22:22 -0700 (PDT)
To: Alia Johnson 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


At 10:15 PM -0400 on 9/1/98, Alia Johnson wrote:


> My brother, Carl E. Johnson aka C.J.Parker aka toto has asked me to let
> you know that he is in prison in Florence, Arizona near Tucson under
> federal charges of threatening the life of a federal officer.

Oh, boy... Here we go again.

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 06:12:11 -0700 (PDT)
To: j orlin grabbe 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Wednesday 9/2/98 6:26 AM

J Orlin Grabbe  http://www.aci.net/kalliste/

I'm going to write an article for The Laissez Faire City Times
http://zolatimes.com/

	Black and White Test of Cryptographic Algorithms

I have what I want to write CLEARLY in mind.  

THINKING before DOING works better than the CONVERSE.  But this takes
time, of course.

How much $s would such an article be worth?

We have to keep in mind WHY we are doing all of this.  
Like what Baranyi is doing at http://www.qainfo.se/~lb/crypto_ag.htm

I will write when I take breaks from debugging and documenting digital
FX hardware.
$s, again.  The digital FX was HOPEFULLY very well thought-out and will
work reliably
in the field.

Here are SOME of my references.
---
*AES*
http://www.aci.net/kalliste/cryptnum.htm

http://csrc.nist.gov/encryption/aes/aes_home.htm
http://www.ii.uib.no/~larsr/bc.html
http://www.jya.com/frog-hack.htm
http://csrc.nist.gov/encryption/aes/round1/docs.htm
http://www.jya.com/aes-mail.htm

http://www.softwar.net/hist.html

http://www.aci.net/kalliste/speccoll.htm   
http://caq.com/cryptogate  
http://jya.com/whpfiles.htm  
http://www.qainfo.se/~lb/crypto_ag.htm

                                    HOLLYWOOD (October, 1997) -- London
Records is
                                    pleased to announce the release of
Howard Shore's
                                    original motion picture score to The
Game, starring
                                    Michael Douglas and Sean Penn. 

                           The film is a thriller directed by David
Fincher (Se7en). "The Game" is
                           what begins when a high-powered businessman
named Nicholas Van
                           Orton (Douglas) receives the birthday gift of
a lifetime from his
                           brother he alienated years ago (Penn). What
Nicholas gets is entry
                           into a mysterious new form of entertainment
provided by C.R.S.
                           (Consumer Recreational Services) simply
called "The Game." It
                           proves to be an all-consuming contest with
only one rule: there are
                           no rules. By the time Van Orton realizes he
is in, it is too late to get
                           out. Laced with intrigue, action and danger
beyond belief, The Game
                           ultimately draws to a cataclysmic close,
every step bringing Van
                           Orton nearer to an explosive confrontation
with what threatens him
                           most. 

                           Howard Shore has written a tense and gripping
score. The
                           soundtrack features "White Rabbit" performed
by the legendary
                           Jefferson Airplane. 
http://www.movietunes.com/soundtracks/1997/game/

          The contemplation of things as they are,      
                without error or confusion,      
            without substitution or imposture,      
   is in itself a nobler thing than a whole harvest of invention.      
      
   Francis Bacon       
    
 Stupidity is difficult to underestimate  
   Professor Robert Franklin Wallace - economics

 Don't search for deeper explanations when stupidity will suffice
   Professor Melvin Gordon Davidson - physics






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED NEWS DAILY 
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 02:34:02 -0700 (PDT)
To: (STUFFED WEDNESDAY SEPTEMBER 2 1998)
Subject: THE HAZARDS OF EXOTIC DANCING/OVER TWO DOZEN FREE JPEGS
Message-ID: <19980902071000.18801.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Great reading, super pictures... You get it all! 

+ 21+ FREE HI-RES JPEGS
+ PAGE 2 'SPREAD' - 'B_E_E_F_Y'
+ THE 10 COMMANDMENTS OF PLEASURE
  BY DR. SUSAN BLOCK PHD
+ EXCLUSIVE: WEB MISTRESS SITE REVIEWS
+ PEANUT BUTTER PECKER
+ 18 FOOT PLONKER POOL MISHAP
+ THUMBNAIL HEAVEN: MORE STUPENDOUS FREE JPEGS
+ TODAY'S SEXY STORY: 'RESTROOM ANTIC'
+ YOUR TRUE SEX SECRETS: MARINE'S MILE HIGH ADVENTURE
+ MORE OF THE BEST WEB SITES EVER REVIEWED IN EUREKA!
+ SEXY SURPRISE THUMBS: A SURPRISE WITH EACH CLICK
+ SUPER HI-RES POSTER PIC: SAVE OR PRINT IT!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/98/9/2/   <----

Welcome to  today's  issue of Stuffed. To read it you should
click on the URL above.  If it is not made clickable by your
email program  you will need to  use your mouse to highlight
the URL,  copy it and then paste it into your browser  (then
press Return).

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/98/9/2/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 08:38:29 -0700 (PDT)
To: softwar@softwar.net
Subject: Sandia president C Paul Robinson's August 19, 1998 view graphs
Message-ID: <35ED654B.189@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Wednesday 9/2/98 8:34 AM

John Young

I mailed you 20 pages of view graphs for Sandia president C Paul
Robinson's
August 19, 1998 speech

  "Looking to the future:  A more dangerous world is appearing."

Your readers will likely value the opportunity to ATTEMPT to find
out is what on Robinson's and the US government's mind.

Money is at the heart of motivation, of course.

If the US is NOT firing tomahawk missiles SOMEWHERE, then this
is BAD for BUSINESS.  No PR s being written for replacements.

  The Tomahawk cruise missile, acquired when Raytheon bought Hughes
Aircraft from General Motors     Corp. in December for $9.5 billion.
Nearly 300 were fired in the Gulf War at Iraqi missile sites,   command
centers, weapons caches, and other targets.  A new version is guided by
global positioning   satellites, a network of 24 satellites fixed high
above the earth and used for navigation.  

  In addition, a General Accounting Office report released last year
said that 
  manufacturers' claims for the Tomahawk, Paveway, and other weapons
were overstated.  
  Boston Globe, Feb. 18, 1998 

   Bill Clinton's $100 Million Crusade Against Ken Starr

                                        by Charles R. Smith

      August was an expensive month for the U.S. taxpayer. For example,
Bill Clinton shot $100            million on August 20, 1998 at
"terrorist" sites in Sudan and Afghanistan. The 79 Tomahawk          
cruise missiles signaled a new "war" that Bill Clinton decided to
declare on terrorism and not       to be confused with the $100 million
White House "war" on Ken Starr. 

      The cost? Tomahawks cost about $1.4 to $2.1 million each,
depending on the model. Moreover,       the Tomahawk price tag does not
reflect the price of conducting the strike such as logistics,      
planning, communications, ship, fuel, and sailor time. If one were to
add in these figures -       the actual strike cost about $1 billion.
...

      The Tomahawk strike also shows the Clinton administration is as
number minded in its war as       the Johnson administration was in
Vietnam. Million dollar missiles on remote Afghan camps are       likely
to be no more successful than B-52s against the Ho Chi Minh trail. There
is an       over-emphasis of "damage assessment" with no regard to
whether the bodies were enemy soldiers       or innocent bystanders.
There is no clear objective and no clear plan for victory. 

Lesson one learns at Sandia when one GETS THE RIGHT CLEARANCES is that
US government creates
its own business opportunities.

  Embassy Bombings 
 
                   Pakistan Gears to Midwife "Get Osama" Operation 
 
                                    Will the U.S. Bomb Afghanistan? 
 
      KARACHI: The arrest and the subsequent statement and evidence
provided by a Palestinian             arrested in Karachi, soon after
his arrival from Nairobi, has pushed US investigators close to      
declare the Afghanistan-based Saudi millionaire Osama Bin Laden as the
man behind the       devastating bombings that killed more than 250
people in and around US embassies in Kenya and       Tanzania on August
7, officials 
      disclosed here and in interviews from Islamabad.  ...

  The News International Pakistan, August 17, 1998 

was SIMPLY GREAT for Sandia Labs business interests as evidenced by
Robinson's August 19th view graphs.

 Osama Calls on Ummah to Continue Jehad 
 
    Denies Involvement in Embassy Bombings 
 
      PESHAWAR: Saudi dissident Osama Bin Laden for the first time
on       
      Thursday denied his involvement in the August 7 bombings at the
US      
      embassies in Kenya and Tanzania.
      The 42-year-old Bin Laden contacted this correspondent on         
      satellite phone at 9:00 pm on Thursday to convey his statement     
      through another Islamic leader Dr Ayman Al-Zawahiri, head
of         
      Egyptian Islamic Jehad organisation which was held responsible
for     
      the murder of Egypt's president Anwar Sadaat.  ...
    
    The News International Pakistan, August 21, 1998

Sandia supervisor James Gosler 

  When Payne balked, his supervisor said Payne "did not choose his
jobs.   
  Rather, Sandia assigns duties to" him. 

http://www.jya.com/whp1.htm

told us, 

  "There are some things the US government does that are SO SECRET they
  can't be CLASSIFIED."

Post away  ... and let's continue to hope for settlement of this
unfortunate matter.

http://www.aci.net/kalliste/speccoll.htm   
http://caq.com/cryptogate  
http://jya.com/whpfiles.htm  
http://www.qainfo.se/~lb/crypto_ag.htm

bill






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Albert P. Franco, II" 
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 02:08:06 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: BEWARE of SnakeOil (tm)
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980902103231.006af730@apf2.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


>> The subpoena Booher received also ordered him to bring to the courthouse
the
>> source code for his product, suggesting the government wants to reverse
>> engineer it.
>

The writer of this article shows an astonishing lack of computer knowledge.
If they get the source code then there is no need to reverse engineer!
Discount anything technical this writer says since he/she is clueless!

Give 'em a word processor and they think they're journalists...

Albert P. Franco, II







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: s9812127@postino.up.ac.za
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 01:49:47 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: STRESS relief
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


  
> > This is guaranteed to alleviate pressure in the 
> > boomboom area of your head,
> >
> > HOLD THE DOWN ARROW AND KEEP GOING 
> >
> > *    hi people
> > *    hi people
> > *    hi people
> > *    hi people
> > *    hi people
> > *    hi people
> > *     hi people
> > *     hi people
> > *       hi people
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> > *             hi people
> > *              hi people
> > *              hi people
> > *             hi people
> > *            hi people
> > *          hi people
> > *         hi people
> > *       hi people
> > *     hi people
> > *     hi people
> > *      hi people
> > *       hi people
> > *         hi people
> > *           hi people
> > *             hi people
> > *              hi people
> > *              hi people
> > *             hi people
> > *            hi people
> > *          hi people
> > *         hi people
> > *       hi people
> > *      hi people
> > *     hi people
> > *    hi people
> > *    hi people
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> > *    hi people
> > *    hi people
> > *    hi peopl e
> > *    hi peopl   e
> > *    hi peopl    e
> > *    hi peop l    e
> > *    hi peop  l    e
> > *    hi peop   l    e
> > *    hi peop    l    e
> > *    hi peo p    l    e
> > *    hi peo  p    l    e
> > *    hi peo   p    l    e
> > *    hi peo    p    l    e
> > *    hi pe o    p    l    e
> > *    hi pe  o    p    l    e
> > *    hi pe   o    p    l    e
> > *    hi pe    o    p    l    e
> > *    hi p e    o    p    l    e
> > *    hi p  e    o    p    l    e 
> > *    hi p   e    o    p    l    e
> > *    hi p    e    o    p    l    e 
> > *    hi  p    e    o    p    l    e
> > *    hi   p    e    o    p    l    e 
> > *    hi    p    e    o    p    l    e
> > *    h i    p    e    o    p    l    e 
> > *    h  i    p    e    o    p    l    e
> > *    h   i    p    e    o    p    l    e 
> > *    h    i    p    e    o    p    l    e
> > *     h    i    p    e    o    p    l    e 
> > *      h    i    p    e    o    p    l    e
> > *       h    i    p    e    o    p    l    e 
> > *        h    i    p    e    o    p    l    e 
> > *         h    i    p    e    o    p    l   e 
> > *          h    i    p    e    o    p    l  e 
> > *           h    i    p    e    o    p    l e 
> > *            h    i    p    e    o    p    le 
> > *             h    i    p    e    o    p   le 
> > *              h    i    p    e    o    p  le 
> > *               h    i    p    e    o    p le 
> > *                h    i    p    e    o    ple 
> > *                 h    i    p    e    o   ple 
> > *                  h    i    p    e    o  ple 
> > *                   h    i    p    e    o ple 
> > *                    h    i    p    e    ople 
> > *                     h    i    p    e   ople 
> > *                      h    i    p    e  ople 
> > *                       h    i    p    e ople 
> > *                        h    i    p    eople 
> > *                         h    i    p   eople 
> > *                          h    i    p  eople 
> > *                           h    i    p eople 
> > *                            h    i    people 
> > *                             h    i   people 
> > *                              h    i  people 
> > *                               h    i people 
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> > *                                   hi people 
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> > *                                   hi people
> > *                                  hi p e ople 
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> > *                         hi p         e          ople 
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> > *                         hi p             e      ople 
> > *                         hi p            e       ople 
> > *                         hi p           e        ople 
> > *                         hi p          e         ople 
> > *                          hi p         e        ople 
> > *                           hi p        e       ople
> > *                            hi p       e      ople 
> > *                             hi p      e     ople 
> > *                              hi p     e    ople
> > *                               hi p    e    ople 
> > *                                hi p   e   ople 
> > *                                 hi p  e  ople
> > *                                  hi p e ople 
> > *                                   hi people 
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> > *                 hi people
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> > *              hi people
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> > *            hi people
> > *           hi people
> > *          hi people
> > *         hi people
> > *        hi people
> > *       hi people
> > *      hi people
> > *     hi people
> > *    hi people
> > *    hi people
> > *    hi people
> > *    hi people
> > *    hi people
> > *    hi people
> > *    hi people
> > *    hi people
> > *    hi people
> > *    hi peopl e
> > *    hi peopl  e
> > *    hi peopl   e
> > *    hi peopl    e
> > *    hi peop l    e
> > *    hi peop  l    e
> > *    hi peop   l    e
> > *    hi peop    l    e
> > *    hi peo p    l    e
> > *    hi peo  p    l    e
> > *    hi peo   p    l    e
> > *    hi peo    p    l    e
> > *    hi pe o    p    l    e
> > *    hi pe  o    p    l    e
> > *    hi pe   o    p    l    e
> > *    hi pe    o    p    l    e
> > *    hi p e    o    p    l    e
> > *    hi p  e    o    p    l    e 
> > *    hi p   e    o    p    l    e
> > *    hi p    e    o    p    l    e 
> > *    hi  p    e    o    p    l    e
> > *    hi   p    e    o    p    l    e 
> > *    hi    p    e    o    p    l    e
> > *    h i    p    e    o    p    l    e 
> > *    h  i    p    e    o    p    l    e
> > *    h   i    p    e    o    p    l    e 
> > *    h    i    p    e    o    p    l    e
> > *     h    i    p    e    o    p    l    e 
> > *      h    i    p    e    o    p    l    e
> > *       h    i    p    e    o    p    l    e 
> > *        h    i    p    e    o    p    l    e 
> > *         h    i    p    e    o    p    l   e 
> > *          h    i    p    e    o    p    l  e 
> > *           h    i    p    e    o    p    l e 
> > *            h    i    p    e    o    p    le 
> > *             h    i    p    e    o    p   le 
> > *              h    i    p    e    o    p  le 
> > *               h    i    p    e    o    p le 
> > *                h    i    p    e    o    ple 
> > *                 h    i    p    e    o   ple 
> > *                  h    i    p    e    o  ple 
> > *                   h    i    p    e    o ple 
> > *                    h    i    p    e    ople 
> > *                     h    i    p    e   ople 
> > *                      h    i    p    e  ople 
> > *                       h    i    p    e ople 
> > *                        h    i    p    eople 
> > *                         h    i    p   eople 
> > *                          h    i    p  eople 
> > *                           h    i    p eople 
> > *                            h    i    people 
> > *                             h    i   people 
> > *                              h    i  people 
> > *                               h    i people 
> > *                                h   i people 
> > *                                 h  i people 
> > *                                  h i people 
> > *                                   hi people 
> > *                                   hi people 
> > *                                   hi people 
> > *                                   hi people 
> > *                                   hi people 
> > *                                   hi people 
> > *                                   hi people 
> > *                                   hi people 
> > *                                   hi people
> > *                                  hi p e ople 
> > *                                 hi p  e  ople
> > *                                hi p   e   ople 
> > *                               hi p    e    ople 
> > *                              hi p     e    ople
> > *                             hi p      e     ople 
> > *                            hi p       e      ople
> > *                           hi p        e       ople 
> > *                          hi p         e        ople
> > *                         hi p          e         ople 
> > *                         hi p         e          ople 
> > *                         hi p        e           ople 
> > *                         hi p       e            ople 
> > *                         hi p        e           ople 
> > *                         hi p         e          ople 
> > *                         hi p          e         ople 
> > *                         hi p           e        ople 
> > *                         hi p            e       ople 
> > *                         hi p             e      ople 
> > *                         hi p            e       ople 
> > *                         hi p           e        ople 
> > *                         hi p          e         ople 
> > *                          hi p         e        ople 
> > *                           hi p        e      ople
> > *                            hi p       e     ople 
> > *                             hi p      e     ople 
> > *                              hi p     e    ople 
> > *                               hi p    e    ople 
> > *                                hi p   e   ople
> > *                                 hi p  e  ople 
> > *                                  hi p e ople 
> > *                                   hi people
> > *                                   hi people 
> > *                                   hi people 
> > *                                   hi people 
> > *                                   hi people 
> > *                                   hi people 
> > *                                  hi people 
> > *                                 hi people
> > *                                hi people 
> > *                               hi people 
> > *                              hi people
> > *                             hi people 
> > *                            hi people 
> > *                           hi people
> > *                          hi people 
> > *                         hi people 
> > *                        hi people
> > *                       hi people 
> > *                      hi people 
> > *                     hi people
> 
> > *                    hi people
> > *                   hi people
> > *                  hi people
> > *                 hi people
> > *                hi people
> > *               hi people
> > *              hi people
> > *             hi people
> > *            hi people
> > *           hi people
> > *          hi people
> > *         hi people
> > *        hi people
> > *       hi people
> > *      hi people
> > *     hi people
> > *    hi people
> > *    hi people
> > *    hi people
> > *    hi people
> > *    hi people
> > *    hi people
> > *    hi people
> > *    hi people
> > *    hi people
> > *    hi people
> > *    aint this cool
> > *    aint this cool
> > *    aint this cool
> > *    aint this cool
> > *    aint this cool
> > *     aint this cool
> > *      aint this cool
> > *       aint this cool
> > *        aint this cool
> > *       a int this cool
> > *      a  int this cool
> > *     a   int this cool
> > *    a    int this cool
> > *    a   i nt this cool
> > *    a  i  nt this cool
> > *    a i   nt this cool
> > *    ai    nt this cool
> > *    ai   n t this cool
> > *    ai  n  t this cool
> > *    ai n   t this cool
> > *    ain   t  this cool
> > *    ain  t   this cool
> > *    ain t    this cool
> > *    aint     this cool
> > *    aint    t his cool
> > *    aint   t  his cool
> > *    aint  t   his cool
> > *    aint t   h is cool
> > *    aint t  h  is cool
> > *    aint t h   is cool
> > *    aint th   i s cool
> > *    aint th  i  s cool
> > *    aint th i   s cool
> > *    aint thi   s  cool
> > *    aint thi  s   cool
> > *    aint thi s    cool
> > *    aint this    c ool
> > *    aint this   c  ool
> > *    aint this  c   ool
> > *    aint this c   o ol
> > *    aint this c  o  ol
> > *    aint this c o   ol
> > *    aint this co   o l
> > *    aint this co  o  l
> > *    aint this co o   l
> > *    aint this coo   l
> > *    aint this coo  l
> > *    aint this coo l
> > *    aint this cool
> > *    aint this cool
> > *    aint this cool
> > *    aint this cool
> > *    aint this cool
> > *    aint this cool
> > *    aint this cool
> > *    aint this cool
> > *    aint this cool
> > *    aint this cool
> > *    aint this cool
> > *     aint this cool
> > *      aint this cool
> > *       aint this cool
> > *        aint this cool
> > *         aint this cool
> > *          aint this cool
> > *           aint this cool
> > *            aint this cool
> > *             aint this cool
> > *              aint this cool
> > *               aint this cool
> > *                aint this cool
> > *                 aint this cool 
> > *                  aint this cool
> > *                   aint this cool 
> > *                    aint this cool
> > *                     aint this cool 
> > *                      aint this cool
> > *                       aint this cool 
> > *                        aint this cool
> > *                         aint this cool 
> > *                          aint this cool
> > *                           aint this cool 
> > *                            aint this cool 
> > *                            STOP SCROLLING 
> > *                         STOP SCROLLING
> > *                       STOP SCROLLING 
> > *                     STOP SCROLLING
> > *                   STOP SCROLLING 
> > *                 STOP SCROLLING
> > *               STOP SCROLLING
> > *             STOP SCROLLING
> > *           STOP SCROLLING
> > *         STOP SCROLLING
> > *       STOP SCROLLING
> > *     STOP SCROLLING
> > *   STOP SCROLLING
> > *  STOP SCROLLING
> > *  STOP SCROLLING
> > *  STOP SCROLLING
> > *  STOP SCROLLING
> > *  STOP SCROLLING
> > *  STOP SCROLLING
> > *  STOP SCROLLING
> >
> > If you liked this, then send it on to 10 other 
> > people in the next 30
> > minutes and help relieve global stress! 
> 
> 
> 
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Alia Johnson 
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 11:03:13 -0700 (PDT)
To: John Young 
Subject: Re: toto
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Thank you. CJ's inmate number at CCA is 05 98 7196. The phone there is 520
868 3668. Of course you can't call him, and mail delivered to the prison
ten days ago has not reached him.NEW INFO: I JUST CALLED THE ATTORNEY'S
OFICE AND HIS SECRETARY INFORMS ME THAT THE HEARING HAS BEEN CANCELLED AND
THE JUDGE HAS ORDERED HIM MOVED TO 'AN APPROPRIATE PSYCHIATRIC FACILITY'
FOR EVALUATION. THE RUMOR IS THAT THIS IS THE ONE IN SPRINGFIELD,
MISSOURI. CJ HAS BEEN INFORMED OF THIS, AND THERE IS ALSO A RUMOR THAT HE
IS IN ISOLATION AND NOT ALLOWED TO MAKE PHONE CALLS. I WILL KEEP YOU
INFORMED OF FURTHER DEVELOPMENTS.
ALIA

On Wed, 2 Sep 1998, John Young wrote:

> Alia,
> 
> We've put the court docket on Toto's case at:
> 
>    http://jya.com/cej-bust.htm
> 
> Also, we've left an inquiry at his attorney's
> office (who's in LA today) for more information:
> 
>   John G Bogart, Esq
>   70 W Franklin St
>   Tucson, AZ 85701
>   (520) 624-8196
> 
> Let us know what you learn at the court hearing
> if you attend and give Toto a hug and kiss (and a 
> handcuff key). Tell him to call me if he can and wants
> to:
> 
>    (212) 873-8700
> 
> John Young
> 
> -----
> 
> To cpunks: I seemed to have misplaced Toto's Cafe
> Gulag post. I'd appreciate a copy or a pointer. Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Andrew Loewenstern 
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 09:24:52 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: e-mail security at the Onion
Message-ID: <9809021625.AA01873@ch1d524iwk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


"What are people doing to proctect their messages from prying eyes?"

Find Out!

http://www.theonion.com/onion3405/infograph_3405.html


andrew




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 11:54:41 -0700 (PDT)
To: tleininger@moraine.tec.wi.us
Subject: Re: Cypherpunks HyperArchive
In-Reply-To: <86256673.00601940.00@moraine.tec.wi.us>
Message-ID: <35ED94D6.7416@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


tleininger@moraine.tec.wi.us wrote:
> 
> I would appreciate it if you could help. For some time now I've read the
> Cypherpunks HyperArchive
> (http://infinity.nus.sg/cypherpunks/), and now I can't get it. I don't
> believe it's being blocked on my end - whats up?
> Thank's for your time. TLL

It has been moved. 

http://www.inet-one.com/cypherpunks/

I still read it because even though I have subscribed to the list I do
not get all of the mail that appears in the hyperarchive. The list so
far seems to be only about 40 e-mails each day. Lots of it is easily
spotted junk mail.

Mike




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: tleininger@moraine.tec.wi.us
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 10:30:55 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Cypherpunks HyperArchive
Message-ID: <86256673.00601940.00@moraine.tec.wi.us>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I would appreciate it if you could help. For some time now I've read the
Cypherpunks HyperArchive
(http://infinity.nus.sg/cypherpunks/), and now I can't get it. I don't
believe it's being blocked on my end - whats up?
Thank's for your time. TLL






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 09:59:16 -0700 (PDT)
To: Alia Johnson 
Subject: Re: toto
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Alia,

We've put the court docket on Toto's case at:

   http://jya.com/cej-bust.htm

Also, we've left an inquiry at his attorney's
office (who's in LA today) for more information:

  John G Bogart, Esq
  70 W Franklin St
  Tucson, AZ 85701
  (520) 624-8196

Let us know what you learn at the court hearing
if you attend and give Toto a hug and kiss (and a 
handcuff key). Tell him to call me if he can and wants
to:

   (212) 873-8700

John Young

-----

To cpunks: I seemed to have misplaced Toto's Cafe
Gulag post. I'd appreciate a copy or a pointer. Thanks.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "joe harlin" 
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 13:06:48 -0700 (PDT)
To: lodi@well.com
Subject: Re: toto
Message-ID: <19980902200614.28540.qmail@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Alia,

I am a little confused.

What exactly did you brother do and what would you like us to do?

All the best.
Joe



>Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 11:01:10 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Alia Johnson 
>To: John Young 
>cc: cypherpunks@toad.com
>Subject: Re: toto
>
>Thank you. CJ's inmate number at CCA is 05 98 7196. The phone there is 
520
>868 3668. Of course you can't call him, and mail delivered to the 
prison
>ten days ago has not reached him.NEW INFO: I JUST CALLED THE ATTORNEY'S
>OFICE AND HIS SECRETARY INFORMS ME THAT THE HEARING HAS BEEN CANCELLED 
AND
>THE JUDGE HAS ORDERED HIM MOVED TO 'AN APPROPRIATE PSYCHIATRIC 
FACILITY'
>FOR EVALUATION. THE RUMOR IS THAT THIS IS THE ONE IN SPRINGFIELD,
>MISSOURI. CJ HAS BEEN INFORMED OF THIS, AND THERE IS ALSO A RUMOR THAT 
HE
>IS IN ISOLATION AND NOT ALLOWED TO MAKE PHONE CALLS. I WILL KEEP YOU
>INFORMED OF FURTHER DEVELOPMENTS.
>ALIA
>
>On Wed, 2 Sep 1998, John Young wrote:
>
>> Alia,
>> 
>> We've put the court docket on Toto's case at:
>> 
>>    http://jya.com/cej-bust.htm
>> 
>> Also, we've left an inquiry at his attorney's
>> office (who's in LA today) for more information:
>> 
>>   John G Bogart, Esq
>>   70 W Franklin St
>>   Tucson, AZ 85701
>>   (520) 624-8196
>> 
>> Let us know what you learn at the court hearing
>> if you attend and give Toto a hug and kiss (and a 
>> handcuff key). Tell him to call me if he can and wants
>> to:
>> 
>>    (212) 873-8700
>> 
>> John Young
>> 
>> -----
>> 
>> To cpunks: I seemed to have misplaced Toto's Cafe
>> Gulag post. I'd appreciate a copy or a pointer. Thanks.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>
>


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: CTIA Daily News 
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 13:14:42 -0700 (PDT)
To: CTIA Daily News 
Subject: CTIA Daily News from WOW-COM - September 2, 1998
Message-ID: <199809022011.PAA21866@revnet3.revnet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary..3996.1071713804.multipart/mixed"

--Boundary..3996.1071713804.multipart/mixed
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit




==========================================
Welcome to today's edition of the CTIA Daily News
from WOW-COM.  Please click on the icon / attachment
for the most important news in wireless communications today.

One of your customers just made 
three really long distance calls.....simultaneously.
Have you deployed authentication?
CTIA's Wireless Security '98 - It's Just Smart Business.
Orlando, Florida · November 9 - 11, 1998 
http://www.wow-com.com/professional 
===========================================
 




--Boundary..3996.1071713804.multipart/mixed
Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="bin00012.bin"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="bin00012.bin"
Content-Description: "_CTIA_Daily_News_19980902a.htm"

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YnNwOzwvY2VudGVyPgo8L0JPRFk+CjwvSFRNTD4K
--Boundary..3996.1071713804.multipart/mixed--



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Dave Grace 
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 13:00:42 -0700 (PDT)
To: fight-censorship@vorlon.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Child-Molesting Forger's Chilling Confession!!!1!
Message-ID: <9809021950.AA05168@kamlia.zk3.dec.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Encrypted_Message=On 4 May 1998 02:57:07 GMT, in article <6ijaq3$bb1@news1.panix.com>,
 Information Security (= Guy Polis ) wrote:
#   Guy Polis (guy@panix.com, eviljay@bway.net) is a pedophile child
#   molester who was fired from his consulting position at Salomon Brothers
#   after he was caught masturbating in his cubicle at the child pornography
#   JPEGs that he downloaded from the Internet.

The poster's been awful quiet lately - did the feds arrest him?
Browser=Netscape:Mozilla/3.0Gold (X11; I; OSF1 V4.0 alpha)
Remedy=Tell the world





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Dave Grace 
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 13:07:30 -0700 (PDT)
To: fight-censorship@vorlon.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Child-Molesting Forger's Chilling Confession!!!1!
Message-ID: <9809021951.AA06892@kamlia.zk3.dec.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Encrypted_Message=On 4 May 1998 02:57:07 GMT, in article <6ijaq3$bb1@news1.panix.com>,
 Information Security (= Guy Polis ) wrote:
#   Guy Polis (guy@panix.com, eviljay@bway.net) is a pedophile child
#   molester who was fired from his consulting position at Salomon Brothers
#   after he was caught masturbating in his cubicle at the child pornography
#   JPEGs that he downloaded from the Internet.

The poster's been awful quiet lately - did the feds arrest him?
Browser=Netscape:Mozilla/3.0Gold (X11; I; OSF1 V4.0 alpha)
Remedy=Tell the world





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Bernardo B. Terrado" 
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 03:58:35 -0700 (PDT)
To: Robert Hettinga 
Subject: Re: toto
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


After all the warnings! thay still do it.
Anyway that's life.




        @@@@@@@@@@@@@      
       ***************
      **    @   @    **
      **      ^      **
      **      U      **
       ***************
         ***********


To do the right thing(s) for the wrong reason(s) is human,
  To do the right thing(s) for the right reason(s) is divine.


metaphone@altavista.net

On Wed, 2 Sep 1998, Robert Hettinga wrote:

> At 10:15 PM -0400 on 9/1/98, Alia Johnson wrote:
> 
> 
> > My brother, Carl E. Johnson aka C.J.Parker aka toto has asked me to let
> > you know that he is in prison in Florence, Arizona near Tucson under
> > federal charges of threatening the life of a federal officer.
> 
> Oh, boy... Here we go again.
> 
> Cheers,
> Bob Hettinga
> -----------------
> Robert A. Hettinga 
> Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
> 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
> "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
> [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
> experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
> 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Glenn Kaggen 
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 15:00:31 -0700 (PDT)
To: GK4FISH@aol.com
Subject: New York Metro Coverage
Message-ID: <35EDBCB9.36D4@idt.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Good Day Seafood Colleagues
I am  looking for additonal products to broker to my customer base of 25
years.  My contacts include most New York accounts on all levels, as
well as good, solid wholesale companies in Boston, Jessup, Washington,
and Philadelphia.  


Please contact me 6 AM to 9 PM, 7 days a week to discuss details

Glenn L Kaggen
Tel 516-822-0758
Fax 516-822-0186
Travel # 516-967-0186
email glk@idt.net




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 17:39:01 -0700 (PDT)
To: j orlin grabbe 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Wednesday 9/2/98 6:19 PM

J Orlin Grabbe

I HOPE to write one of the MOST DEVASTATING, and deserving, ARTICLES
ABOUT 
CRYPTOGRAPHERS EVER WRITTEN. 

By introducing to the public:

		MACHINE COMIBINATORICS

I stand on the shoulders on several GIANTS.  

I searched the web for Cardano.

http://www.lib.virginia.edu/science/parshall/cardano.html

And one SUPERB mathematician

  Ore, Oystein. Cardano: The Gambling Scholar. Princeton: University
Press, 1956. 

I may need your help with Zola.  YOU understand math, Zola MAY not.

Best 
bill
---
Wednesday 9/2/98 6:26 AM 
 
J Orlin Grabbe  http://www.aci.net/kalliste/ 
 
I'm going to write an article for The Laissez Faire City Times 
http://zolatimes.com/ 
 
	Black and White Test of Cryptographic Algorithms 
 
I have what I want to write CLEARLY in mind.   
 
THINKING before DOING works better than the CONVERSE.  But this takes 
time, of course. 
 
How much $s would such an article be worth? 
 
We have to keep in mind WHY we are doing all of this.   
Like what Baranyi is doing at http://www.qainfo.se/~lb/crypto_ag.htm 
 
I will write when I take breaks from debugging and documenting digital
FX hardware. 
$s, again.  The digital FX was HOPEFULLY very well thought-out and will
work reliably 
in the field. 
 
Here are SOME of my references. 
--- 
*AES* 
http://www.aci.net/kalliste/cryptnum.htm 
 
http://csrc.nist.gov/encryption/aes/aes_home.htm 
http://www.ii.uib.no/~larsr/bc.html 
http://www.jya.com/frog-hack.htm 
http://csrc.nist.gov/encryption/aes/round1/docs.htm 
http://www.jya.com/aes-mail.htm 
 
http://www.softwar.net/hist.html 
 
http://www.aci.net/kalliste/speccoll.htm    
http://caq.com/cryptogate   
http://jya.com/whpfiles.htm   
http://www.qainfo.se/~lb/crypto_ag.htm 
 
                                    HOLLYWOOD (October, 1997) -- London
Records is 
                                    pleased to announce the release of
Howard Shore's 
                                    original motion picture score to The
Game, starring 
                                    Michael Douglas and Sean Penn.  
 
                           The film is a thriller directed by David
Fincher (Se7en). "The Game" is 
                           what begins when a high-powered businessman
named Nicholas Van 
                           Orton (Douglas) receives the birthday gift of
a lifetime from his 
                           brother he alienated years ago (Penn). What
Nicholas gets is entry 
                           into a mysterious new form of entertainment
provided by C.R.S. 
                           (Consumer Recreational Services) simply
called "The Game." It 
                           proves to be an all-consuming contest with
only one rule: there are 
                           no rules. By the time Van Orton realizes he
is in, it is too late to get 
                           out. Laced with intrigue, action and danger
beyond belief, The Game 
                           ultimately draws to a cataclysmic close,
every step bringing Van 
                           Orton nearer to an explosive confrontation
with what threatens him 
                           most.  
 
                           Howard Shore has written a tense and gripping
score. The 
                           soundtrack features "White Rabbit" performed
by the legendary 
                           Jefferson Airplane.  
http://www.movietunes.com/soundtracks/1997/game/ 
 
          The contemplation of things as they are,       
                without error or confusion,       
            without substitution or imposture,       
   is in itself a nobler thing than a whole harvest of invention.       
       
   Francis Bacon        
     
 Stupidity is difficult to underestimate   
   Professor Robert Franklin Wallace - economics 
 
 Don't search for deeper explanations when stupidity will suffice 
   Professor Melvin Gordon Davidson - physics






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Alia Johnson 
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 18:55:39 -0700 (PDT)
To: joe harlin 
Subject: Re: toto
In-Reply-To: <19980902200614.28540.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


C.J. was arrested for postings he made involving some kind of betting on
the death of certain listed IRS agents.

There is nothing in particular we are asking you to do; he just asked me
to let people know what is happening.

Thanks for asking. Alia Johnson


On Wed, 2 Sep 1998, joe harlin wrote:

> Alia,
> 
> I am a little confused.
> 
> What exactly did you brother do and what would you like us to do?
> 
> All the best.
> Joe
> 
> 
> 
> >Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 11:01:10 -0700 (PDT)
> >From: Alia Johnson 
> >To: John Young 
> >cc: cypherpunks@toad.com
> >Subject: Re: toto
> >
> >Thank you. CJ's inmate number at CCA is 05 98 7196. The phone there is 
> 520
> >868 3668. Of course you can't call him, and mail delivered to the 
> prison
> >ten days ago has not reached him.NEW INFO: I JUST CALLED THE ATTORNEY'S
> >OFICE AND HIS SECRETARY INFORMS ME THAT THE HEARING HAS BEEN CANCELLED 
> AND
> >THE JUDGE HAS ORDERED HIM MOVED TO 'AN APPROPRIATE PSYCHIATRIC 
> FACILITY'
> >FOR EVALUATION. THE RUMOR IS THAT THIS IS THE ONE IN SPRINGFIELD,
> >MISSOURI. CJ HAS BEEN INFORMED OF THIS, AND THERE IS ALSO A RUMOR THAT 
> HE
> >IS IN ISOLATION AND NOT ALLOWED TO MAKE PHONE CALLS. I WILL KEEP YOU
> >INFORMED OF FURTHER DEVELOPMENTS.
> >ALIA
> >
> >On Wed, 2 Sep 1998, John Young wrote:
> >
> >> Alia,
> >> 
> >> We've put the court docket on Toto's case at:
> >> 
> >>    http://jya.com/cej-bust.htm
> >> 
> >> Also, we've left an inquiry at his attorney's
> >> office (who's in LA today) for more information:
> >> 
> >>   John G Bogart, Esq
> >>   70 W Franklin St
> >>   Tucson, AZ 85701
> >>   (520) 624-8196
> >> 
> >> Let us know what you learn at the court hearing
> >> if you attend and give Toto a hug and kiss (and a 
> >> handcuff key). Tell him to call me if he can and wants
> >> to:
> >> 
> >>    (212) 873-8700
> >> 
> >> John Young
> >> 
> >> -----
> >> 
> >> To cpunks: I seemed to have misplaced Toto's Cafe
> >> Gulag post. I'd appreciate a copy or a pointer. Thanks.
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >
> >
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> 
> 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Carl 
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 22:14:29 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: Sex Story Post
Message-ID: <419.436041.05420139netmedia12@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hi, Carl here from An Alien's Guide to Internet Sex

You should not be receiving this email unless you are an adult Webmaster and 
have submitted a link to Alien's.  This is my personal mailing list and was not  
purchased or acquired by any other means.

I would like to announce the opening of my newest website,  

Sex Story Post:    http://www.sexstorypost.com/index.html

After only 1 week, Sex Story Post is getting over 6,000 Unique visitors a day.

This site is run just like the pic post sites but uses stories instead of pictures.  
Studies have shown that visitors looking for stories are more likely to produce sign-
ups.  Why? Who the hell knows, maybe it is because they can read well enough to 
sign up for a credit card.  

What does this do for you?  Aren't we all looking for quality traffic?  Also, there are 
several sponsors out there that will allow you to post their banner to pic post and 
STORY POST sites as well.

So come, add your story and your banner, and get your share of these great 
revenue producing surfers.  

You can go straight to the submit page at:  
http://www.sexstorypost.com/picpost/add,html

Thanks,

Carl



PS.  while you are there add your link to the links page.

My Newest site:  
	SEX STORY POST http://www.sexstorypost.com/linkadmin.html
	
Also come add your link to my other pages:
 	Tongue Chow.  http://www.tongue-chow.com/main.html
 	Wanker Zone http://www.wankerzone.com/
	FREE Hardcore Pics and Erotic Stories  http://www.fahking.com/





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: HyperReal-Anon 
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 17:22:15 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: mailing list
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Tue, 1 Sep 1998, MD Dodson wrote:

> how do I join?

Well, first you inform the refueler of your intention and wait for
clearance. You'll be cleared for either the left or the right hose. Pull
in behind and deploy your refueling probe if your aircraft has one. Ease
it into the basket and hold the aircraft steady until refueling is
complete. 

Another option is to go for a swim inside the refueling tank. You'll join
your ancestors quickly.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: martin..@iname.com
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 00:54:14 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: setting up a remailer service
Message-ID: <199809030754.DAA01354@web05.iname.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Yoppa!

As I am getting a cable modem installed today, I'd like to set up a free remailer service for the internet community. I have a static IP, good disk space and my machine is located in Norway. Ideally I'd like to do something along the lines of anon.penet.fi. Any tips or suggestions are most welcome, but I'm *not* setting up a warez/porn site or anything like that.

Regards

.martin

---------------------------------------------------
Get free personalized email at http://www.iname.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "joe harlin" 
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 06:01:54 -0700 (PDT)
To: lodi@well.com
Subject: Re: toto
Message-ID: <19980903130120.9782.qmail@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Alia,

What was he charged with?

Does he have a criminal record?

Where did he make these postings?

Do they think he had anything to do with the death of IRS agents.

Be well,
Joe


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 22:26:09 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Eternity servers, SSL home pages
Message-ID: <199809030526.HAA01214@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I was just browsing replay and I ran into a server on it called an
eternity server, That one wont let me use it because of permissions. 
I was wondering if there was another one around that has been tested
recently.

Also I was curious as to whether there were any crypto conscous ISP
that let you have a page with SSL cheap if it was just an ifo page and
not a commercial site.  Any help would be Appreciated.
==

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 06:35:17 -0700 (PDT)
To: j orlin grabbe 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Thursday 9/3/98 6:10 AM

J Orlin Grabbe  http://www.aci.net/kalliste/

Patty and I went to Zurich last April. 

  Implementing Basics : How Basics Work           
  William H. and Patricia Payne / Published 1982           
  http://www.amazon.com 

I interviewed for a job at IBM Zurich forschungslabortorium.
http://www.zurich.ibm.com/

We left from Atlanta.

The Swissair 747 was operated jointly by Delta and Swissair. 
http://www.swissair.com/

From: "Matthias Kaiserswerth"
To: billp@nmol.com
Message-Id: 
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 12:54:38 +0200
Subject: Re: Settlement and talk title

  Bill,

  I cannot comment on your legal battles - they seem to be quite
  difficult and require a great deal of courage if waged against a
  government.

  I wish you the best of luck - it sounds like a nightmare or as written
by
  Kafka.

  Anyway, the title for your talk sounds very interesting. Could you
also
  write up an  abstract and make it reasonably technical, because this
is what people
  will  be interested in.

  I'm looking forward, once you have your passport, to arrange a date
with
  you to come here for the interview and to meet us.

  Kind regards
       Matthias

My talk title was

	Dangers in High Tech Espionage

GETTING CAUGHT, of course, is one DANGER in high tech espionage.

http://www.aci.net/kalliste/speccoll.htm   
http://caq.com/cryptogate  
http://jya.com/whpfiles.htm  
http://www.qainfo.se/~lb/crypto_ag.htm

Let's all hope for settlement of this UNFORTUNATE MATTER before things
GET
WORSE.

Later
bill






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Axel Bodemer 
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 23:20:36 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: list
Message-ID: <19980903082028.A28784@omp.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Alia Johnson 
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 09:13:06 -0700 (PDT)
To: joe harlin 
Subject: Re: toto
In-Reply-To: <19980903130120.9782.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


	

On Thu, 3 Sep 1998, joe harlin wrote:

> Alia,
> 
> What was he charged with?
> THREATENING THE LIFE OF A FEDERAL AGENT
> Does he have a criminal record?
> I DON'T KNOW.
> Where did he make these postings?
> I'M NOT SURE; IN SOMETHING TO DO WITH JIM BELL'S ASSISINATION POOL I
THINK.
> Do they think he had anything to do with the death of IRS agents.
> I DON'T THINK SO. DID ANYBODY DIE?
> Be well,
> Joe
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> 
> 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Bernardo B. Terrado" 
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 18:54:23 -0700 (PDT)
To: tleininger@moraine.tec.wi.us
Subject: Re: Cypherpunks HyperArchive
In-Reply-To: <86256673.00601940.00@moraine.tec.wi.us>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I too cannot open it.
It says in my screen 
      FORBIDDEN 
  well my server is not allowed to access that ~/cypherpunks/
    that's why I cannot go to it.

One question, the site where it is located, is it a university?
What school?

Thank you.




To do the right thing(s) for the wrong reason(s) is human,
  To do the right thing(s) for the right reason(s) is divine.


metaphone@altavista.net

On Wed, 2 Sep 1998 tleininger@moraine.tec.wi.us wrote:

> I would appreciate it if you could help. For some time now I've read the
> Cypherpunks HyperArchive
> (http://infinity.nus.sg/cypherpunks/), and now I can't get it. I don't
> believe it's being blocked on my end - whats up?
> Thank's for your time. TLL
> 
> 
> 






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Bernardo B. Terrado" 
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 18:55:34 -0700 (PDT)
To: tleininger@moraine.tec.wi.us
Subject: Re: Cypherpunks HyperArchive
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


National University of Singapore 

> I too cannot open it.
> It says in my screen 
>       FORBIDDEN 
>   well my server is not allowed to access that ~/cypherpunks/
>     that's why I cannot go to it.
> 
> One question, the site where it is located, is it a university?
> What school?
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To do the right thing(s) for the wrong reason(s) is human,
>   To do the right thing(s) for the right reason(s) is divine.
> 
> 
> metaphone@altavista.net
> 
> On Wed, 2 Sep 1998 tleininger@moraine.tec.wi.us wrote:
> 
> > I would appreciate it if you could help. For some time now I've read the
> > Cypherpunks HyperArchive
> > (http://infinity.nus.sg/cypherpunks/), and now I can't get it. I don't
> > believe it's being blocked on my end - whats up?
> > Thank's for your time. TLL
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: CTIA Daily News 
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 12:05:34 -0700 (PDT)
To: CTIA Daily News 
Subject: CTIA Daily News from WOW-COM - September 3, 1998
Message-ID: <199809031858.NAA27527@revnet3.revnet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



==========================================
Welcome to today's edition of the CTIA Daily News
from WOW-COM.  Please click on the icon / attachment
for the most important news in wireless communications today.

One of your customers just made
three really long distance calls.....simultaneously.
Have you deployed authentication?
CTIA's Wireless Security '98 - It's Just Smart Business.
Orlando, Florida · November 9 - 11, 1998
http://www.wow-com.com/professional
===========================================
Title: _CTIA Daily News From WOW-COM_



 










 





CTIA
Daily News from WOW-COM - September 3, 1998
















CTIA Adds Internet Y2K
Site for Wireless Industry







The Cellular Telecommunications Industry
Association has added a new section to its web site dealing with the Year
2000 computer problem.  The site is designed to be a resource regarding
Y2K and the wireless industry. (WOW-COM)















Audiovox FoneFinder Phone
Will Track Callers' Locations For 911 Centers







Audiovox's new phone to be released in
November will assist 911 centers by dispatching the caller's precise latitude
and longitude by using global positioning satellite service.  The
Audiovox FoneFinder can be used with any wireless service provider without
additional fees for calls that use the GPS feature. (SFGATE)















Virginia Beach Tower
Siting Decision Issued by Federal Appeals Court 







United States Fourth Circuit Court issues
decision supporting city council in a tower dispute. (PILOT)
(EMORY)















The Michigan Technology
Commission's New Survey Reveals That More Than 50 Percent of 1000 People
Surveyed Are Cell Phone Users.







According to the survey, the number of
cell phone users in Michigan well exceeds the national average of 39 percent. 
Participants were selected from within the Detroit City limits and tri-county
suburbs. (FREEPRESS)















Veridian Acquires Datumtech's
North American Operations







Veridian, parent company of Calspan Operations,
announced that the company has acquired Datumtech's North American operations. 
The acquisition creates one of the leading providers of automatic vehicle
location systems and mobile data terminals serving the public safety, commercial
and consumer markets. (WOW-COM)















Spyglass Develops The
"Device Mosaic Web browser" For Portable Devices.







The "Device Mosaic Web browser'' is Spyglass's
new Web browser for Microsoft's Windows CE operating system devices. 
This web browser provides more creativity in development applications.
(FOXNEWS)















Ongoing Internet Battles
Have Made Their Way To Handheld Devices







Handheld computers are the latest in the
battle for internet browsing despite the slow pace of wireless modems. 
Small software companies have begun producing Web access solutions for
use in handheld devices. (BOSTON)
(FOXNEWS)















Telecommunications Merger
Between SNET and SBC Communications







Southern New England Telecommunications
Corporation's merger with SBC Communications Inc. of San Antonio was approved
yesterday by the Connecticut Department of Public Utility Control. (BOSTON)















Year 2000 Presents Financial
Worries for Federal Agencies 







Clinton administration officials estimate
the Year 2000 computer problems for federal agencies to cost $5.4 billion
in repairs.  The Clinton Administration is working with Telecommunications
groups to protect companies fearful of sharing data that my later be used
against them in liability lawsuits. (WASHPOST)
























For additional news about
the wireless industry - including periodic news updates throughout the
day - visit http://www.wow-com.com.

CTIA Daily News from WOW-COM
is transmitted weekdays, except for holidays.  Visit us on the World
Wide Web at http://www.wow-com.com/professional.

Please Note: Some of the
links in today's news are time sensitive.  Those links may not be
available as news changes throughout the day.  Also, some news sources
may be subscription-based or require registration.
 
















CTIA Daily News from WOW-COM
is transmitted weekdays, except for holidays. Visit us on the World Wide
Web at http://www.wow-com.com/professional.  

If you are not interested
in receiving the CTIA Daily News from WOW-COM, please send a message to
unjoin-CTIA_Daily_News@um2.unitymail.com.  

*** The term "unjoin-CTIA_Daily_News@um2.unitymail.com"
must be listed in the TO section of the email. *** 

Please Note: Some of the
links in today's news are time sensitive.  Those links may not be
available as news changes throughout the day.  Also, some news sources
may be subscription-based or require registration.














 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED NEWS DAILY 
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 11:04:31 -0700 (PDT)
To: (STUFFED THURSDAY SEPTEMBER 3 1998)
Subject: 16% of Americans agree with Clinton: "Oral sex not adultery"/30+ FREE PICS EVERY DAY FROM NOW ON!
Message-ID: <19980903140353.9972.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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      THUMBNAIL ORGY, ULTRA HI-RES POSTER PIC, & MUCH, MUCH MORE!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/98/9/3/   <----

Welcome to  today's  issue of Stuffed. To read it you should
click on the URL above.  If it is not made clickable by your
email program  you will need to  use your mouse to highlight
the URL,  copy it and then paste it into your browser  (then
press Return).

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
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       ---->   http://stuffed.net/98/9/3/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: rsriram@krdl.org.sg
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 02:43:12 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: setting up a remailer service
Message-ID: <19980903174030.B4271@krdl.org.sg>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Thu, Sep 03, 1998 at 03:54:04AM -0400, martin..@iname.com wrote:
| Yoppa!
| 
| As I am getting a cable modem installed today, I'd like to set up a free remailer service for the internet community. I have a static IP, good disk space and my machine is located in Norway. Ideally I'd like to do something along the lines of anon.penet.fi. Any tips or suggestions are most welcome, but I'm *not* setting up a warez/porn site or anything like that.
| 
| Regards
| 
| .martin


Check out MixMaster at ftp.replay.com/pub/replay/remailer/mixmaster





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 19:38:52 -0700 (PDT)
To: georgefoot@oxted.demon.co.uk
Subject: diplomacy
Message-ID: <35EF519A.51D1@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Zola http://zolatimes.com/

I faxed the abstract to Grabbe.  Young's fax did not answer.

There are, I think, some crytpo problems posted at
http://www.jya.com/crypto.htm
http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~fapp2/papers/ec98-erl/

Problems should, of course, be pointed out with diplomacy characterized
in
http://www.aci.net/kalliste/apocalyp.htm

Later
bill

   Black and White Test of Cryptographic Algorithms

		Abstract

  Purpose of this article is to explain the underlying principles

  of cryptography by examples and explain why some criteria
  should be met by cryptographic algorithms for serious
  consideration of adoption.

revision 		date		time		author 		reason
0			9/3/98		6:49 PM		wh payne	first draft






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 20:04:49 -0700 (PDT)
To: abumujahid@taliban.com
Subject: The Great Satan
Message-ID: <35EF579F.5FFF@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Thursday 9/3/98 8:53 PM

Greg Broiles
gbroiles@netbox.com

I read

http://www.jya.com/jdb-9ca-gb.htm

One has to be careful with the great satan.

Perhaps one needs a GOOD lawyer?

http://www.mgovg.com/ethics/index.html

I lived in the basement appartment of the Luce's home 
in Walla Walla during my jr/sr at Whitman college 1958/59.

Charlie JR was in the 'goo'- rug rat stage when I met him.

bill

Subject: 
        diplomacy
  Date: 
        Thu, 03 Sep 1998 20:34:02 -0600
  From: 
        bill payne 
    To: 
        eZola@LFCity.com, cypherpunks@toad.com,
ukcrypto@maillist.ox.ac.uk, biham@cs.technion.ac.il,
even@cs.technion.ac.il, wpi@wpiran.org,
        abd@CDT.ORG, merata@pearl.sums.ac.ir,
lawya@lucs-01.novell.leeds.ac.uk, sjmz@hplb.hpl.hp.com,
georgefoot@oxted.demon.co.uk
    CC: 
        jy@jya.com, john gilmore , j orlin grabbe
, Ross.Anderson@cl.cam.ac.uk,
Vaclav.Matyas@cl.cam.ac.uk,
        fapp2@cl.cam.ac.uk


Zola http://zolatimes.com/

I faxed the abstract to Grabbe.  Young's fax did not answer.

There are, I think, some crytpo problems posted at
http://www.jya.com/crypto.htm
http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~fapp2/papers/ec98-erl/

Problems should, of course, be pointed out with diplomacy characterized
in
http://www.aci.net/kalliste/apocalyp.htm

Later
bill

   Black and White Test of Cryptographic Algorithms

                Abstract

  Purpose of this article is to explain the underlying principles

  of cryptography by examples and explain why some criteria
  should be met by cryptographic algorithms for serious
  consideration of adoption.

revision                date            time            author         
reason
0                       9/3/98          6:49 PM         wh payne       
first draft






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nue84@mci2000.com (Goodmail...Inc.)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 23:55:42 -0700 (PDT)
To: nue84@mci2000.com
Subject: Complete E-mail Business..
Message-ID: <199809033952BAA54769@cash.cedarnet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED NEWS DAILY 
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 01:56:58 -0700 (PDT)
To: (STUFFED FRIDAY SEPTEMBER 4 1998)
Subject: Babes behind bars: Jailbabes looking for men/Over 30 Hi-Res, ultra-hot jpegs - FREE!
Message-ID: <19980904071000.23727.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


We've been beavering away (we wish :) to bring you today's
superb issue. It's packed with the best FREE photos, funny
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Welcome to  today's  issue of Stuffed. To read it you should
click on the URL above.  If it is not made clickable by your
email program  you will need to  use your mouse to highlight
the URL,  copy it and then paste it into your browser  (then
press Return).

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
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       ---->   http://stuffed.net/98/9/4/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Digital Frontiers Info 
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 18:14:33 -0700 (PDT)
To: digf-offer@digfrontiers.interaccess.com
Subject: HVS Product Prices Cut by 30%
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


PRICE CUTS ON HVS PRODUCTS
--------------------------
Dear Web Developer/Designer:

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: CTIA Daily News 
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 12:00:07 -0700 (PDT)
To: CTIA Daily News 
Subject: CTIA Daily News from WOW-COM - September 4, 1998
Message-ID: <199809041848.NAA00707@revnet3.revnet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary..3996.1071713804.multipart/mixed"

--Boundary..3996.1071713804.multipart/mixed
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit




==========================================
Welcome to today's edition of the CTIA Daily News
from WOW-COM.  Please click on the icon / attachment
for the most important news in wireless communications today.

One of your customers just made 
three really long distance calls.....simultaneously.
Have you deployed authentication?
CTIA's Wireless Security '98 - It's Just Smart Business.
Orlando, Florida · November 9 - 11, 1998 
http://www.wow-com.com/professional 
===========================================

 




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--Boundary..3996.1071713804.multipart/mixed--



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Laurent Demailly 
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 16:13:01 -0700 (PDT)
To: martin..@iname.com
Subject: setting up a remailer service
In-Reply-To: <199809030754.DAA01354@web05.iname.net>
Message-ID: <13808.27579.860140.831829@pomerol>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


martin..@iname.com writes:
 > I'd like to set up a free remailer service for the internet community.
 > I have a static IP,
 > good disk space
   ***************
 > and my machine is located in Norway. 
[...]

Not to be over suspicious but why would you need
a lot of disk space for a remailer ? do you plan
on logging and recording all the messages ;-) ?

-- dl, speaking only for himself




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: mgraffam@mhv.net
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1998 18:56:23 -0700 (PDT)
To: Laurent Demailly 
Subject: Re: setting up a remailer service
In-Reply-To: <13808.27579.860140.831829@pomerol>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Fri, 4 Sep 1998, Laurent Demailly wrote:
> martin..@iname.com writes:
>  > I'd like to set up a free remailer service for the internet community.
>  > I have a static IP,
>  > good disk space
>    ***************
>  > and my machine is located in Norway. 
> [...]
> 
> Not to be over suspicious but why would you need
> a lot of disk space for a remailer ? do you plan
> on logging and recording all the messages ;-) ?

He mentioned in the original message that he wanted to run a service like
anon.penet.fi .. 

penet set up an anonymous box, that is .. you can remail a letter through
penet and it would assign a unique anonymous addy for you, and then
replies and email to that anonymous addy would get forwarded to you.

This would require disk space. 

Michael J. Graffam (mgraffam@mhv.net)
http://www.mhv.net/~mgraffam -- Philosophy, Religion, Computers, Crypto, etc
"Enlightenment is man's emergence from his self-incurred immaturity.
Immaturity is the inability to use one's own understanding without the
guidance of another. . .Sapere aude! Have the courage to use your own
understanding!" - Immanuel Kant "What is Enlightenment?"





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: jkthomson 
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 01:18:28 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: (another) reason we need anon servers.
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980905011845.006bb77c@dowco.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Itex Sues Over Yahoo! Postings

Friday, September 4, 1998; 12:13 p.m. EDT

PORTLAND, Ore. (AP) -- An investment firm is suing the people who posted
online messages on a Yahoo! bulletin board accusing managers of
incompetence, even though the firm has no idea whom to sue.

Itex Corp. listed 100 ``John Does'' in its lawsuit filed this week in
Multnomah County Circuit Court.

In May, somebody using the name ``Orangemuscat'' declared on the Yahoo!
online message board that Itex's ``current management is blind, stupid and
incompetent.''

The lawsuit charges the author of the message with defaming the company and
its president, undermining the confidence of Itex's investors, customers
and barter exchange members.

``Orangemuscat,'' ``Investor727,'' ``colojopa'' and other names are listed
as defendants ``presently unknown to plaintiffs but whose true identities
will be included in amendments hereto when those identities are discovered.''

Donovan Snyder, an Itex lawyer, said it was necessary to sue in order to
find the authors of the message, but he declined further comment.

Itex, a barter exchange brokerage, had engaged in a bitter takeover
struggle with a rival brokerage, and has faced questions from critics who
challenge the way it values its assets. The company previously has turned
to the courts to battle former employees and critics.

Yahoo! disclaims all responsibility for the messages that are posted on its
message boards.

``We have no way of knowing who some of the people are,'' said John Place,
Yahoo's general counsel.

Place said Yahoo's policy is to refuse to surrender any user information
unless a court orders it to do so. But even under a court order, he said
Yahoo! would have a hard time identifying users.

The case is one of many that are pushing courts to define privacy rights on
the Internet.

``I would not want to limit people's ability to post information online,''
said Lois Rosenbaum, a partner at the Portland law firm of Stoel Rives.
``But I would like to see some accountability for what they posted.''

Rosenbaum represented Beaverton-based Epitope in a 1993 case against a man
who posted critical remarks about the company on a public bulletin board on
the Prodigy online service. In that case, the comments turned out to be
from a stockbroker with an interest in driving down the price of Epitope's
shares.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------
 james 'keith' thomson   www.bigfoot.com/~ceildh
 jkthomson:C181 991A 405C EAFB 2C46 79B5 B1DC DB78 8196 122D [06.07.98]
 ceildh   :1D79 59AF ED75 5945 6003 8240 DA34 ACCA 9DE4 6BC9 [05.14.98]
 ICQ:746241  at pgp.mit.edu     ...and former sysop of tnbnog BBS
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
"To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to 
claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin." 
		- Cardinal Bellarmine 1615, during the trial of Galileo 
=======================================================================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED NEWS DAILY 
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 09:51:02 -0700 (PDT)
To: (STUFFED SATURDAY SEPTEMBER 5 1998)
Subject: Man wires his balls to a transformer - holy smoke!/Virgin sex on the web site was 'a scam'
Message-ID: <19980905071000.2552.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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email program  you will need to  use your mouse to highlight
the URL,  copy it and then paste it into your browser  (then
press Return).

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/98/9/5/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: cell@cyber-host.net
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 08:59:33 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: AD: Cellphone Batteries at Half Price
Message-ID: <199809051559.IAA03160@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Merchant Services 
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 00:30:21 -0700 (PDT)
To: Merchant Accounts 
Subject: CREDIT CARD PROCESSING
Message-ID: <199809051930.PAA14411@localhost.localdomain>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: jkthomson 
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 16:00:22 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: request for [cdn] export laws.
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980905160024.0070f7c0@dowco.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



greetings, listmembers.

I have been looking for the export restrictions (if any) that regulate
canadian encryption products.  I have tried searching the net for a little
while, and although I have found a few (contradictory) blurbs on it, I have
found no 'official' documents or links to them.  does this information
exist on the web, and if not, who would be the best department to ask so
that I get the least red-tape or 'runaround'?



-----------------------------------------------------------------------
 james 'keith' thomson   www.bigfoot.com/~ceildh
 jkthomson:C181 991A 405C EAFB 2C46 79B5 B1DC DB78 8196 122D [06.07.98]
 ceildh   :1D79 59AF ED75 5945 6003 8240 DA34 ACCA 9DE4 6BC9 [05.14.98]
 ICQ:746241  at pgp.mit.edu     ...and former sysop of tnbnog BBS
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Microsoft's biggest and most dangerous contribution to the software
 industry may be the degree to which it has lowered user expectations."
				     - Esther Schlindler, OS/2 Magazine
=======================================================================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "kryz" 
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 05:10:26 -0700 (PDT)
To: "Cypherpunks" 
Subject: "In dreams begin responsibility" - W.B. Yeats
In-Reply-To: <19980904224426.3.MAIL-SERVER@pub1.pub.whitehouse.gov>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




----------
| Date: vrijdag 4 september 1998 22:44:00
| From: The White House
| To: Public-Distribution@pub.pub.whitehouse.gov
| Subject: 1998-09-04 Remarks by President to Officials of Gateway Computers
|
|
|                             THE WHITE HOUSE
|
|                      Office of the Press Secretary
|                            (Dublin, Ireland)
| ________________________________________________________________________
| For Immediate Release                                  September 4, 1998
|
|
|
|                         REMARKS BY THE PRESIDENT
|                           TO BUSINESS LEADERS,
|             AND OFFICIALS AND EMPLOYEES OF GATEWAY COMPUTERS
|
|
|                    Gateway Computers European Facility
|                      Santry, County Dublin, Ireland
|
|
| 4:12 P.M. EDT
|
|
|   THE PRESIDENT:  Thank you for the wonderful welcome, the waving flag
| -- (applause) -- the terrific shirts -- I want one of those shirts
| before I leave -- (applause) -- at least shirts have not become virtual,
| you can actually have one of them.  (Laughter.)
|
|   I want to say to the Taoiseach how very grateful I am for his
| leadership and friendship.  But I must say that I was somewhat
| ambivalent when we were up here giving our virtual signatures.  Do you
| have any idea how much time I spend every day signing my name?  I'm
| going to feel utterly useless if I can't do that anymore.  (Laughter.)
| By the time you become the leader of a country, someone else makes all
| the decisions -- you just sign your name.  (Laughter.)  You may find you
| can get away with virtual presidents, virtual prime ministers, virtual
| everything.  Just stick a little card in and get the predicable
| response.
|
|   I want to congratulate Baltimore Technologies on making this possible
| as well.  And Ted Waitt, let me thank you for the tour of this wonderful
| facility.  As an American I have to do one little chauvinist thing.  I
| asked Ted -- I saw the Gateway -- do you see the Gateway boxes over
| there and the then the Gateway logo and I got a Gateway golf bag before
| I came in and it was black and white like this.  (Applause.)  So I said,
| where did this logo come from?  And he said, "It's spots on a cow."  He
| said, we started in South Dakota and Iowa and people said how can there
| be a computer company in the farmland of America?  And now there is one
| in the farmland of America that happens to be in Ireland.
|
|   But it's a wonderful story that shows the point I want to make later,
| which is that there is no monopoly on brain power anywhere.  There have
| always been intelligent people everywhere, in the most underinvested and
| poorest parts of the world.  Today on the streets of the poorest
| neighborhoods in the most crowded country in the world -- which is
| probably India, in the cities -- there are brilliant people who need a
| chance.
|
|       And technology, if we handle it right, will be one of the great
| liberating and equalizing forces in all of human history, because it
| proves that unlike previous economic waves you could be on a small farm
| in Iowa or South Dakota or you could be in a country like Ireland, long
| under-invested in by outsiders, and all of a sudden open the whole world
| up.  And you can prove that people you can find on any street corner can
| master the skills of tomorrow.  So this is a very happy day.
|
|       I want to thank the other officials from the Irish government,
| Minister Harney and Minister O'Rourke and others.  I thank my great
| Commerce Secretary, Bill Daley, for being here, and Jim Lyons, who heads
| my economic initiatives for Ireland, and Ambassador Jean Kennedy Smith,
| who has done a magnificent job for us and will soon be going home after
| having played a major role in getting the peace process started, and we
| thank her.
|
|       I thank you all personally for the warm reception you gave George
| Mitchell, because you have no idea how much grief he gave me for giving
| him this job.  (Laughter and applause.)  You all voted for the agreement
| now, and everything is basically going in the right direction, but it
| was like pulling fingernails for three years -- everybody arguing over
| every word, every phrase, every semicolon, you know?  In the middle of
| that, George Mitchell was not all that happy that I had asked him to
| undertake this duty.
|
|       But when you stood up and you clapped for him today, for the first
| time since I named him, he looked at me and said thank you.  So thank
| you again, you made my day.  (Applause.)  Thank you.
|
|       I'd also like to thank your former Prime Minister and Taoiseach,
| John Bruton, who's here and who also worked with us on the peace
| process.  Thank you, John, for coming, it's delightful to see you.
| (Applause.)  And I would like you to know that there are a dozen members
| of the United States Congress here, from both parties -- showing that we
| have reached across our own divide to support peace and prosperity in
| Ireland.  And I thank all the members of Congress and I'd like to ask
| them to stand up, just so you'll see how many there are here.  Thank you
| very much.  (Applause.)
|
|       I know that none of the Irish here will be surprised when I tell
| you that a recent poll of American intellectuals decided that the best
| English language novel of the 20th century was a book set in Dublin,
| written by an Irishman, in Trieste and Zurich, and first published in
| New York and Paris -- a metaphor of the world in which we now live.
| James Joyce's "Ulysses" was the product of many cultures, but it remains
| a deeply Irish work.
|
|       Some of you will remember that near the beginning of the book,
| Joyce wrote, "History is a nightmare from which I am trying to awake."
| Much of Irish history, of course, is rich and warm and wonderful, but we
| all know it has its nightmarish aspects.  They are the ones from which
| Ireland is now awakening, thanks to those who work for peace and thanks
| to those who bring prosperity.
|
|       Much of Ireland's new history, of course, will be shaped by the
| Good Friday Peace Agreement.  You all, from your response to Senator
| Mitchell, are knowledgeable of it and proud of it, and I thank you for
| voting for it in such overwhelming numbers in the Republic.
|
|       I think it's important that you know it's a step forward not only
| for Irish people but for all people divided everywhere who are seeking
| new ways to think about old problems, who want to believe that they
| don't forever have to be at the throats of those with whom they share a
| certain land, just because they are of a different faith or race or
| ethnic group or tribe.  The leaders and the people of Ireland and
| Northern Ireland, therefore, are helping the world to awaken from
| history's nightmares.
|
|       Today Ireland is quite an expansive place, with a positive outlook
| on the world.  The 1990s have changed this country in profound and
| positive ways.  Not too long ago, Ireland was a poor country by European
| standards, inward-looking, sometimes insular.
|
|       Today, as much as any country in Europe, Ireland is connected in
| countless ways to the rest of the world, as Ted showed me when we moved
| from desk to desk to desk downstairs with the people who were talking to
| France and the people who were talking to Germany and the people who
| were talking to Scandinavia, and on and on and on.
|
|       This country has strong trade relations with Britain and the
| United States, with countries of the European Union and beyond.  And
| Ireland, as we see here at this place, is fast becoming a technological
| capital of Europe.  Innovative information companies are literally
| transforming the way the Irish interact and communicate with other
| countries.  That is clear here -- perhaps clearer here than anywhere
| else -- at Gateway, a company speaking many languages and most of all
| the language of the future.  Gateway and other companies like Intel and
| Dell and Digital are strengthening Ireland's historic links to the
| United States and reaching out beyond.
|
|       I think it is very interesting, and I was not aware of this before
| I prepared for this trip, that Dublin is literally becoming a major
| telecommunications center for all of Europe.  More and more Europeans do
| business on more and more telephones, and more and more of their calls
| are routed through here.  You connect people and businesses in very
| combination:  a German housewife, a French computer company, a Czech
| businessman, a Swedish investor -- people all around Europe learning to
| do business on the Internet.
|
|       At the hub of this virtual commerce is Ireland, a natural gateway
| for the future also of such commerce between Europe and the United
| States.  In the 21st century, after years and years and years of being
| disadvantaged because of what was most important to the production of
| wealth, Ireland will have its day in the sun because the most important
| thing in the 21st century is the capacity of people to imagine, to
| innovate, to create, to exchange ideas and information.  By those
| standards, this is a very wealthy nation indeed.
|
|       Your growth has been phenomenal:  last year, 7.7 percent; prices
| rising at only 1.5 percent; unemployment at a 20-year low.  Ireland is
| second only to the United States in exporting software.  This year the
| Irish government may post a surplus of $1.7 billion.  The Celtic tiger
| is roaring and you should be very proud of it.  (Applause.)
|
|       It has been speculated, half seriously, that there are more
| foreigners here than at any time since the Vikings pillaged Ireland in
| the 9th century.  (Laughter.)  I guess I ought to warn you -- you know,
| whenever a delegation of Congressmen comes to Ireland they all claim to
| be Irish -- and in a certain way they all are -- but one of the members
| of the delegation here, Congressman Hoyer, who has been a great friend
| of the peace process, is in fact of Viking heritage, descent.
| (Laughter.)  Stand up, Steny.  (Applause.)
|
|       Now, all the rest of us come here and pander to you and tell you
| we love Ireland because there is so much Irish blood running in our
| veins.  He comes here and says he loves Ireland because there is so much
| of his blood running in your veins.  (Laughter and applause.)
|

|       Let me get back to what I was saying about the Internet -- because
| your position vis-a-vis telecommunication can be seen through that.
| When I came here just three years ago -- had one of the great days of my
| life, there was so much hope about the peace process then -- only 3
| million people worldwide were connected to the Internet, three years
| ago.  Today there are over 120 million people, a 40-fold increase in
| three years.  In the next decade sometime it will be over a billion.
| Already, if you travel, you can see the impact of this in Russia or in
| China or other far-flung places around the globe.
|
|       I had an incredible experience in one of these Internet cafes in
| Shanghai, where I met with young high school students in China working
| the Internet.  Even if they didn't have computers at home, they could
| come to the cafe, buy a cup of coffee, rent a little time and access the
| Internet.  This is going to change dramatically the way we work and
| live.  It is going to democratize opportunity in the world in a way that
| has never been the case in all of human history.  And if we are wise and
| decent about it, we can not only generate more wealth, we can reduce
| future wars and conflicts.
|
|       The agreement that we signed today does some important things.  It
| commits us to reduce unnecessary regulatory barriers, to refrain from
| imposing customs duties, to keep taxes to a minimum, to create a stable
| and predictable environment for doing business electronically.  It helps
| us, in other words, to create an architecture for one of the most
| important areas of business activity in the century ahead.
|
|       There are already 470 companies in Ireland that are American, and
| many of them are in the information sector.  The number is growing
| quickly.  So I say to you that I think this agreement we have signed
| today, and the way we have signed it, will not only be helpful in and of
| themselves, but will stand for what I hope will be the future direction
| of your economy and America's, the future direction of our relationship,
| and will open a massive amount of opportunity to ordinary people who
| never would have had it before.
|
|       A strong modern economy thrives on education, innovation, respect
| for the interests of workers and customers and a respect for the earth's
| environment.  An enlightened population is our best investment in a good
| future.  Prosperity reinforces peace as well.  The Irish have long
| championed prosperity, peace, and human decency, and for all that I am
| very grateful.
|
|       I would like to just say, because I can't leave Ireland without
| acknowledging this, that there are few nations that have contributed
| more than Ireland, even in times which were difficult for this country,
| to the cause of peace and human rights around the world.  You have given
| us now Mary Robinson to serve internationally in that cause.  But since
| peacekeeping began for the United Nations 40 years ago, 75 Irish
| soldiers have given their lives.
|
|       Today we work shoulder to shoulder in Bosnia and the Middle East.
| But I think you should know, that as nearly as I can determine, in the
| 40 years in which the world has been working together on peacekeeping,
| the only country in the world which has never taken a single, solitary
| day off from the cause of world peace to the United Nations peacekeeping
| operations is Ireland.  And I thank you.  (Applause.)
|
|       In 1914, on the verge of the First World War, which would change
| Europe and Ireland forever, William Butler Yeats wrote his famous line,
| "In dreams begin responsibility."  Ireland has moved from nightmares to
| dreams.  Ireland has assumed great responsibility.  As a result, you are
| moving toward permanent peace, remarkable prosperity, unparalleled
| influence, and a brighter tomorrow for your children.  May the
| nightmares stay gone, the dreams stay bright, and the responsibility
| wear easily on your shoulder, because the future is yours.
|
|       Thank you, and God bless you.
|
|             END                        4:28 P.M. (L)







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill301@success600.com
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 21:11:51 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: Free Laptop or Desktop Computer
Message-ID: <00f442406010698VERY@mail.monemakr.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Dave Emery 
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 18:49:05 -0700 (PDT)
To: David Honig 
Subject: Re: Zooko on JYA, cpunks, and surveillance (was: Re: Can't tell the kooks without a scorecard? Re: Monkey Wrenching the Echelon Engine)
In-Reply-To: <199809042025.WAA19299@xs1.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <19980905214853.A27226@die.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Sat, Sep 05, 1998 at 07:38:09AM -0700, David Honig wrote:
> At 10:25 PM 9/4/98 +0200, Zane Lewkowicz wrote:
> 
> >I used to think that the feds would never bother to investigate
> >the likes of us, but i've been proven wrong.  So now i assume 
> >that all unencrypted mail is scanned (especially in light of 
> >ECHELON & UKUSA & such).
> 
> And all encrypted mail is archived.
> 
	And that is the rub.  The real danger of key escrow type schemes
lies in the future decryption under a different political and legal
climate of half forgotten traffic going back years and years - stuff
fetched from vast secret archives of potentially  interesting encrypted
messages squirelled away in the off chance that some time in the future
"they" will be in possession of the key to some of it and interested in
the contents. 

	And until crypto is universally used for almost everything,
saving the entirety of the 1-5% or so of email traffic that is encrypted
on the presumption that it wouldn't have been encrypted if it wasn't
important might be a good strategy, even if only a tiny fraction of
those messages can ever be broken.  And certainly saving all of the
cipher email traffic from people identified by traffic analysis (group
membership, corrospondance with suspicious or known bad-actor people or
places, match to profiles profane and devine, etc) is really a
no-brainer.

	The critical thing needed to protect against this chilling
threat is email tools that provide perfect forward secrecy.  PGP and the
like do not, and capturing thus PGP messages in the hope that later on
one has access to the private key is a very useful practice.  DH key
exchange has been around a long time, but so far the tentacles of the
NSA have kept it from being a standard automatic part of sendmail, MS
Exchange  and qmail...  Certainly one might want to enclose PGP or SMIME
email messages inside the encrypted tunnel to protect privacy in storage
and the "store" of store and forward mail routing, but having a secure
transport tunnel in the first place forces the vacuum cleaner hose to be
attached in quite different places where it is likely to be much more
visible and noticed.  And sure IPSEC would be nice, but simply making
the ESMTP traffic between a short list of mail router programs opaque
would certainly leverage a small effort with a large result whilst 
upgrading TCP/IP stacks and routers is a large effort...

	I've long heard that the NSA fills warehouses with high density
tapes of cyphertext they can't break or don't want to spend the
resources to break on the off chance that later on the key will be
available or the information deemed truly important enough for
cryptanalysis where possible.  And sometimes (as in the Venona decrypts)
this pays off...

	

-- 
	Dave Emery N1PRE,  die@die.com  DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass. 
PGP fingerprint = 2047/4D7B08D1 DE 6E E1 CC 1F 1D 96 E2  5D 27 BD B0 24 88 C3 18





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "D.STARR" 
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 04:04:01 -0700 (PDT)
To: jkthomson@bigfoot.com
Subject: Re: [request for [cdn] export laws.]
Message-ID: <19980906110357.28581.qmail@www0i.netaddress.usa.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/html



The following is a good site for tracking down info on Canadian government policy on any topic:  
                  http://info.ic.gc.ca/.  

Picked up the following using their search engine.
Check it out.

I suspect that there are no export restrictions at this time unless they were included in NAFTA. So you may want to try a NAFTA search as well.

You could also try phoning Reference Canada at 1-800-667-3355.

Excerpt from the following speaking notes:

***************************************************************************************************************

Security.

Before they use electronic commerce, consumers and business want to make sure that their transactions will
be secure. They also want to know to know that those they do business with are who they say they are.

As you know, we have just completed a consultation on setting a cryptography policy for Canada. We
received over 150 submissions in response to our discussion paper, which addressed issues such as access
to encrypted stored data, access to real time communications, and export controls. My officials are
reviewing the submissions as input into the policy we intend to develop for the fall. 

With regard to authentication and certification, the government is working with suppliers and a number of
key business sectors to develop criteria for government use of certification and authentication services. We
also expect to roll out the Government of Canada's public key infrastructure in the next 10 to 12 months.

***************************************************************************************************************




                               SPEAKING NOTES
                   FOR THE HONOURABLE JOHN MANLEY
                           MINISTER OF INDUSTRY

                     ELECTRONIC COMMERCE SUMMIT
                             MINISTERIAL PANEL

                                    OTTAWA
                                 APRIL 30, 1998

Date: 04/30/98 

Thank you, David.

Electronic commerce is at the leading edge of the trends that are transforming the world economy.

The trends are related and mutually reinforcing: improvements in information and communications
technologies, globalization and a shift to an economy based on knowledge.

Information technology is transforming the business process. The Internet, for example, allows businesses to
interact 24-hours-a-day, seven days a week, not only with suppliers, but with consumers world-wide. At
the same time, those consumers have access to an unlimited global array of products and services.

The knowledge economy places a premium on continuous improvement and the creation and application of
new ideas. To stay ahead, Canada needs to build on its strengths in research and people and focus these
resources on building a stronger Canadian innovation system.

A key part of our government's response to this challenge is our agenda for Connecting Canadians. The
goal is to make Canada the most connected country in the world by the year 2000. This is a six-part
strategy to make Canada the world leader in developing and using an advanced information infrastructure. It
involves: promoting access; growing digital content industries; putting government on line; encouraging smart
communities; promoting a connected Canada to the world; and developing electronic commerce.

Much of the groundwork is in place: we are already among the most connected nations on earth. Canada
leads the G7 in penetration of cable, telephones and home computers, and we are second only to the US in
terms of Internet host penetration. Our Internet access charges are the lowest in the world. An estimated
four million Canadian business users may be on the Internet by the year 2000.

Connecting Canadians is a partnership agenda. It is the private sector that has built the leading edge info
highway we have in Canada, and it is the private sector that will build the next generation. But, government
has key roles to play in encouraging competition, removing impediments to growth, reducing uncertainty,
encouraging innovation and speed, and responding to accessibility gaps.

Initiatives such as SchoolNet, Community Access Program and Computers for Schools are good examples
of how we have worked with business, educators, community leaders and governments to respond to the
challenge of access.

The Canadian Network for the Advancement of Research, Industry and Education, or CANARIE, is
another outstanding example of private and public sector partnership. Our February Budget commits $55
million to CANARIE's work in building the next generation Canadian Internet.

We know that we have to bring the power of these partnerships to bear on the challenge of making Canada
a world leader in the development and use of electronic commerce. 

We view the move to electronic commerce as inevitable. If we move fast, if we remove the uncertainties
holding back electronic commerce on open networks, we can create a global centre of excellence for
electronic commerce. In short, with the right framework, electronic commerce has phenomenal growth
prospects.

While the challenges are diverse and complex, they can be viewed as revolving around one simple issue:
TRUST.

The best way to build trust is to deal directly with issues of security, privacy, consumer-protection and legal
frameworks. I'd like to touch briefly on each of these.

***************************************************************************************************************

Security.

Before they use electronic commerce, consumers and business want to make sure that their transactions will
be secure. They also want to know to know that those they do business with are who they say they are.

As you know, we have just completed a consultation on setting a cryptography policy for Canada. We
received over 150 submissions in response to our discussion paper, which addressed issues such as access
to encrypted stored data, access to real time communications, and export controls. My officials are
reviewing the submissions as input into the policy we intend to develop for the fall. 

With regard to authentication and certification, the government is working with suppliers and a number of
key business sectors to develop criteria for government use of certification and authentication services. We
also expect to roll out the Government of Canada's public key infrastructure in the next 10 to 12 months.

***************************************************************************************************************

Another aspect of building trust is privacy.

If a consumer thinks personal information just floats around cyber-space, waiting for anyone to take a look
or use for purposes that haven't been agreed to, that consumer will think twice about using an on-line
service.

To build consumer confidence in electronic transactions, Anne McLellan and I are working towards putting
into law the Canadian standard for the protection of personal information. The standard was developed by
the private sector and consumer groups, with the support of government. It has proven its effectiveness in
changing business practices and providing guidance. But it's missing a few elements, notably on the
enforcement front.

Our government is committed to enacting legislation to protect personal information in the private sector by
the year 2000 and, to that effect, Anne and I plan to introduce a bill in the House in the fall.

Consumer Protection is also a concern.

Potential customers want to know where a business is located or know what will happen if merchandise
they order is shoddy, or simply doesn't show up. Are there effective redress mechanisms?

If we want Canadians to move into electronic commerce in meaningful numbers, they have to feel that there
will be some measure of consumer protection. We need to know if our current rules and regulations are
sufficient to deal with consumer protection issues or if they need to be adjusted. In response to these
questions, we have launched some studies and held consultations, including a business-consumer roundtable
last week.

As a result of these discussions, a policy paper on consumer protection will be developed and we plan to
release guidelines on consumer protection in the fall.

For electronic commerce to flourish, the private sector must continue to lead. We generally believe that with
minor adjustments, existing market place rules and practices will be able to create the framework for the
development and growth of electronic commerce. We believe in the ability of private industry, with the
direct input of consumers, to deal with the key issues of trust and confidence. Technological solutions,
competition and voluntary codes can go a long way to address such issues.

But, Canada is not alone in assessing these issues: governments and the private sector worldwide are
examining both domestic and international policies and practices which affect electronic commerce.

Which is what October's OECD Ministerial conference is all about.

The conference will bring together the private sector with key international organizations interested in
electronic commerce, as well as 29 OECD governments, and a number observer governments.

The goal of the conference is nothing short of establishing an international road map for electronic
commerce.

In setting the agenda for that conference and in setting out the international road map, we are looking to
Canadian companies for many of the approaches and solutions needed to build an effective global
marketplace.


cypherpunks-errors@toad.com wrote:

greetings, listmembers.

I have been looking for the export restrictions (if any) that regulate
canadian encryption products.  I have tried searching the net for a little
while, and although I have found a few (contradictory) blurbs on it, I have
found no 'official' documents or links to them.  does this information
exist on the web, and if not, who would be the best department to ask so
that I get the least red-tape or 'runaround'?



-----------------------------------------------------------------------
 james 'keith' thomson   www.bigfoot.com/~ceildh
 jkthomson:C181 991A 405C EAFB 2C46 79B5 B1DC DB78 8196 122D [06.07.98]
 ceildh   :1D79 59AF ED75 5945 6003 8240 DA34 ACCA 9DE4 6BC9 [05.14.98]
 ICQ:746241  at pgp.mit.edu     ...and former sysop of tnbnog BBS
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Microsoft's biggest and most dangerous contribution to the software
 industry may be the degree to which it has lowered user expectations."
				     - Esther Schlindler, OS/2 Magazine
=======================================================================




Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED NEWS DAILY 
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 02:25:58 -0700 (PDT)
To: (STUFFED SUNDAY SEPTEMBER 6 1998)
Subject: Vibrator mistaken for bomb/Keeping sex fresh: Explicit techniques revealed
Message-ID: <19980906071000.20692.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


This issue brings  yet another great collection of
30+ super hi-res jpeg photographs;  as well as our
usual  crazy  mix of unbelievable (but true)  sexy
news;  informative,  educational and  entertaining
features; and a whole load more...

 + PAGE 2 'SPREAD'
  + WILD THUMBNAILS
   + WHAT A DILDO!
    + WANKY RACES
     + THUMBNAIL HEAVEN
      + SEXY STORY: "A VIRTUAL FANTASY"
       + THE BEST OF EUREKA!
        + PUSSY SURPRISE PICS
         + KEEPING SEX FRESH
          + SUPER HI-RES POSTER PIC

- Enjoy!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/98/9/6/   <----

Welcome to  today's  issue of Stuffed. To read it you should
click on the URL above.  If it is not made clickable by your
email program  you will need to  use your mouse to highlight
the URL,  copy it and then paste it into your browser  (then
press Return).

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/98/9/6/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Oskar Pearson 
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 22:21:08 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Quantum Computing progress - physnews update.388
Message-ID: <19980906072053.59022@is.co.za>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hi

I hope that this is relevant, apologies if it isn't. I am neither a physicist,
nor a crypto-oriented-mathematician... I am a part-time software developer and
Unix support person :)

As for the standard paranoia: trichloroethylene isn't in Ispell's dictionary.
The NSA have obviously infiltrated the Linux/Freeware developer community.
More proof that we are simply trailing behind the NSA in crypto technology.

First link from altavista search for +"quantum computing" +cryptography
Probably irrelevant :)
	http://hwilwww.rdec.redstone.army.mil/MICOM/wsd/ST/RES/QC/qc.html

>From a mailing list I am on:
0--------------------------------------------------------------------------0
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 14:03:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: physnews@aip.org (AIP listserver)
Message-Id: <199809031803.OAA01296@aip.org>
To: physnews-mailing@aip.org
Subject: update.388

PHYSICS NEWS UPDATE                         
The American Institute of Physics Bulletin of Physics News
Number 388 September 3, 1998  by Phillip F. Schewe and Ben
Stein

QUANTUM ERROR CORRECTION has been experimentally
demonstrated for the first time, greatly advancing the promise of
carrying out interesting calculations with quantum computers
(Updates 310 and 367).  Skeptics have maintained that quantum
computers would crash before carrying out a useful calculation since
the devices rely on fragile, easily corrupted quantum states. 
Proposed in 1995 and developed unceasingly since then, quantum
error correction has been all theory up until now.  Aiming radio-
frequency pulses at a liquid solution of alanine or trichloroethylene
molecules, researchers at Los Alamos and MIT (Raymond
Laflamme, 505-665-3394) spread a single bit of quantum
information onto three nuclear spins in each molecule.  Spreading
out the information made it harder to corrupt.  The bit of
information was a combination or "superposition" of the values 0
and 1, so that it represented a little amount of 0 and a little amount
of 1 at the same time.  Measuring the spins directly would destroy
this superposition and force the bit to become a 0 or a 1.  So, the
researchers instead "entangled" or interlinked the properties of the
three spins.  This allowed them to compare the spins to see if any
new differences arose between them without learning the bit of
information itself.  With this technique, they were able to detect and
fix errors in a bit's "phase coherence," the phase relationship
between the quantum waves corresponding to the 0 and 1
states.(D.G. Cory et al., Physical Review Letters, 7 Sept 1998.)



-------------------





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: dcab@cwi.se
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 01:51:47 -0700 (PDT)
To: dcab@cwi.se
Subject: JUST RELEASED!  10 Million!!!
Message-ID: <011328705550122442@ls_flancygerm.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



IT WAS JUST RELEASED!!
 
INTRODUCING...MILLIONS VOL. 1A

We took a total of over 92 million email addresses from many of the
touted CD's that are out there (bought them all - some were $300+)!
We added the millions we had in storage to those.   When we
combined them all, we had in excess of 100+ million addresses
in one huge file.

We then ran a super "sort/de-dupe" program against this huge list.
It cut the file down to less than 25 million!!! Can you believe that? It
seems that most people that are selling CD's are duping the public
by putting numerous files of addresses in the CD over and over. This
created many duplicate addresses. They also had many program
 "generated" email addresses like Compuserve, MCI, ANON's, etc.
This causes a tremendous amount of undeliverables, and for  those
that use Stealth programs, clogs up servers quickly with trash, etc.

We then ran a program that contained 1800+ keywords to remove
addresses with vulgarity,  profanity, sex-related names, postmaster,
 webmaster, flamer, abuse, spam, etc., etc.   Also eliminated all .edu,
.mil, .org, .gov, etc.   After that list was run against the remaining list,
it  reduced it down to near 10 million addresses!

So, you see, our list will save people hundreds of dollars buying all
others that are out there on  CD and otherwise. Using ours will be like
 using the 100+ million that we started with, but a lot less money and
alot less time!!

We also purchased Cyber-Promos ($995.00) CD.  We received it just
prior to finishing production work on the new CD.  We had our people
take a random sample of 300,000 addresses  from the touted 2.9 that
they advertised.   We used a program that allows us to take a random
sample of addresses from any list.  We were able to have the program
take every 9th address, thus giving us a 300,000 list of Cyber's email
addresses from top to bottom.  We cleaned these, and came up with about
100,000 addresses. These are also mixed in.

We also included a 6+ million "Remove/Flamer" file broke into seperate
files for ease of  extracting and adding to your own database of removes.

 "You can buy from the REST or you can buy from the BEST.   Your choice.
_____________________________

What others are saying:
 
"I received the CD on Friday evening.   Like a kid with a new toy, I
immediately started bulking out using the new email addresses.  Over
the course of the weekend, I emailed out over 500,000 emails and I
received less than TWENTY undeliverables!!  I am totally satisfied
with my purchase!!  Thanks Premier!!"

Dave Buckley
Houston,  TX

"This list is worth it's weight in gold!!  I sent out 100,000 emails for my
product and received over 55 orders!

Ann Colby
New Orleans, LA

****************************************
 
                  HERE'S THE BOTTOM LINE

Here is what you get when you order today!

>> 10 Million Email Addresses... 1 per line in simple text format on a CD.
Files are in lots of 5,000 (no codes needed to open files).
All files are separated by domain name for your convenience.
 
PLUS you receive a tremendous REMOVE list!
6 Million+ 

>>> NOW ONLY $150.00!

This price is effective for the next seven days, thereafter the price will be
$199.00 so ORDER NOW!

All lists are completely free of any Duplicates. We also on a continual
basis, add New Names and Remove Undeliverables and Remove
Requests.
 
The result is the Cleanest Email Addresses Available Anywhere
to use over and over again, for a FRACTION of the cost that other
companies charge. Typical rates for acquiring email lists are from
1 cent to as high as 3 cents per email address - that's
"INFORMATION HIGHWAY" ROBBERY!.


***ADDED BONUS***
All our customers will have access to our updates on the CD volume
they purchase.  That's right, we continually work on our CD.  Who 
knows when those other CDs were made. We're constantly adding 
and deleting addresses, removes. Etc.  It all comes back to quality.  
No one else offers that! 

Don't even hesitate on this one or you will miss out on the most
effective way to market anywhere...PERIOD!

If you have any further questions or to place an order by
phone, please do not hesitate to call us at:

                              800-600-0343  Ext. 2693

To order our email package, simply print out the EZ ORDER FORM
below and fax or mail it to our office today.
 
We accept Visa, Mastercard, AMEX, Checks by Fax.
 
 _________________
EZ Order Form
 

 _____Yes! I would like to order MILLIONS Vol. 1A email addresses
for only $150.00.
 
*Please select one of the following for shipping..
 
____I would like to receive my package OVERNIGHT. I'm including
$15 for shipping. (outside US add an additional $25 for shipping)
 
____I would like to receive my package 2 DAY delivery. I'm including
$10 for shipping.  (outside US add an additional $25 for shipping)
 
DATE_____________________________________________________
 
NAME____________________________________________________

COMPANY NAME___________________________________________

ADDRESS_________________________________________________

CITY, STATE, ZIP___________________________________________
 
PHONE NUMBERS__________________________________________
 
FAX NUMBERS_____________________________________________
 
EMAIL ADDRESS___________________________________________
 
TYPE OF CREDIT CARD:
 
______VISA _____MASTERCARD
 
CREDIT CARD# __________________________________________
 
EXPIRATION DATE________________________________________
 
NAME ON CARD___________________________________________
 
AMOUNT $____________________
 
 
(Required) SIGNATURE:x________________________
 
DATE:x__________________
 
You may fax your order to us at:   1-212-504-8192
 

CHECK BY FAX SERVICES!
 
If you would like to fax a check, paste your check below and fax it to
our office along with all forms to: 1-212-504-8192

******************************************************

***24 HOUR FAX SERVICES*** PLEASE PASTE YOUR
 
CHECK HERE AND FAX IT TO US AT 1-212-504-8192
 
*******************************************************
 
If You fax a check, there is no need for you to send the original check.
We will draft up a new check, with the exact information from your
original check. All checks will be held for bank clearance.  (7-10 days)
Make payable to: "GD Publishing"
 










From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Jayson Dias" 
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 13:02:59 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: More $$ than you Can Imagine
Message-ID: <000101bdd9ce$382ff7c0$ae2e2599@oemcomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


MAKE TONS OF MONEY
FAST AND EASY!!!
This is your chance, don't pass it up

 Please Read...  I have personally tried so many of these (Make money on the
internet) all of these plans have failed and i lost money on them, but this
plan has been making me so much money in so little time... Don't get me
wrong, you have to put forth some effort but it all works out in the end.  I
will stop talking now and let you read how you can make this kind of money
on the internet!!!
You may have to read through this a couple times to understand it, and no
matter what your age, you can still do this as long as you have the internet
and an e-mail account... Read on...



The following is a copy of the e-mail I read which got me started:

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

This is a LEGAL, MONEYMAKING PHENOMENON.
PRINT this letter, read the directions, THEN READ IT AGAIN !!!

You are about to embark on the most profitable and unique program you may
ever see.  Many times over, it has demonstrated and proven its ability to
generate large amounts of cash.  This program is showing fantastic appeal
with a huge and ever-growing on-line population desirous of additional
income.

This is a legitimate, LEGAL, moneymaking opportunity.  It does not require
you to come in personal contact with people, do any hard work, and best of
all, you never have to leave the house, except to get the mail and go to the
bank!

This truly is that lucky break you've been waiting for!  Simply follow the
easy instructions in this letter, and your financial dreams can come true!
When followed correctly, this electronic, multilevel marketing program
WORKS!

Thousands of people have used this program to:
    -  Raise capital to start their own business
    -  Pay off debts
    -  Buy homes, cars, etc.,
    -  Even retire!

This is your chance, so don't pass it up!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
OVERVIEW OF THIS EXTRAORDINARY
ELECTRONIC MULTILEVEL MARKETING PROGRAM
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------

Basically, this is what we do:

We send thousands of people a product that they paid us $5.00 US for, that
costs next to nothing to produce and e-mail back to them.  As with all
multilevel businesses, we build our business by recruiting new partners and
selling our products.  Every state in the U.S. allows you to recruit new
multilevel business online (via your computer).  We are not promising you
anything.  You have to put forth some effort to make this business work, but
come on how hard is emailing!

The products in this program are a series of four business and financial
reports costing $5.00 each.  Each order you receive is to include:

  * $5.00 cash United States Currency
  * The name and number of the report they are ordering
  * The e-mail address where you will e-mail them the report they ordered.

To fill each order, you simply e-mail the product to the buyer.  THAT'S IT!
The $5.00 is yours!  This is the EASIEST electronic multilevel marketing
business anywhere!

FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS TO THE LETTER AND
BE PREPARED TO REAP THE STAGGERING BENEFITS!

******* I  N  S  T  R  U  C  T  I  O  N  S *******

This is what you MUST do:

1. Order all 4 reports shown on the list below (you can't sell them if you
don't order them).

     *  For each report, send $5.00 CASH, the NAME & NUMBER OF THE
        REPORT YOU ARE ORDERING, YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS, and YOUR
        RETURN POSTAL ADDRESS (in case of a problem) to the person whose
        name appears on the list next to the report.

     *  When you place your order, make sure you order each of the four
        reports.  You will need all four reports so that you can save them
        on your computer and resell them.

     *  Within a few days you are to receive, via e-mail, each of the four
reports.
         Save them on your computer so they will be accessible for you to
send
         to the 1,000's of people who will order them from you.

2.  IMPORTANT -- DO NOT alter the names of the people who are listed next
     to each report, or their sequence on the list, in any way other than is
     instructed below in steps "a" through "d" or you will lose out on the
     majority of your profits.  Once you understand the way this works,
you'll
     also see how it doesn't work if you change it.  Remember, this method
     has been tested, and if you alter it, it will not work.

    a.  Look below for the listing of available reports.

    b.  After you've ordered the four reports, replace the name and address
         under REPORT #1 with your name and address, moving the one that
         was there down to REPORT #2.

    c.  Move the name and address that was under REPORT #2 down to
         REPORT #3.

    d.  Move the name and address that was under REPORT #3 down to
         REPORT #4.

    e.  The name and address that was under REPORT #4 is removed from
         the list and has NO DOUBT collected large sums of cash!

Please make sure you copy everyone's name and address ACCURATELY!!!

3.  Take this entire letter, including the modified list of names, and save
     it to your computer.  Make NO changes to the instruction portion of
this
     letter.

4.  Now you're ready to start an advertising campaign on the
     WORLDWIDE WEB!  Advertising on the WEB can be very, very inexpensive,
     and there are HUNDREDS of FREE places to advertise.  Another
     avenue which you could use for advertising is e-mail lists.
     You can buy these lists for under $20/2,000 addresses or you
     can pay someone to take care of it for you.
     BE SURE TO START YOUR AD CAMPAIGN IMMEDIATELY!

5.  For every $5.00 you receive, all you must do is e-mail them the report
     they ordered.  THAT'S IT!  ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE
     ON ALL ORDERS!  This will help guarantee that the e-mail THEY send out,
     with YOUR name and address on it, will be prompt because they can't
     advertise until they receive the report!  To grow fast be prompt and
courteous.

------------------------------------------
AVAILABLE REPORTS
------------------------------------------
***Order Each REPORT by NUMBER and NAME***

Notes:
-  ALWAYS SEND $5 CASH FOR EACH REPORT
-  ALWAYS SEND YOUR ORDER VIA THE QUICKEST DELIVERY
-  Make sure the cash is concealed by wrapping it in at least two sheets of
paper
-  On one of those sheets of paper, include: (a) the number & name of the
report you are ordering, (b) your e-mail address, and (c) your postal
address.
_________________________________________________________________
REPORT #1 "HOW TO MAKE $250,000 THROUGH MULTILEVEL SALES"

ORDER REPORT #1 FROM:
            JAYSON DIAS
            4793 Birkdale Cir.
            Fairfield, CA 94585
_________________________________________________________________
REPORT #2 "MAJOR CORPORATIONS AND MULTILEVEL SALES"

ORDER REPORT #2 FROM:
            BOBAYAA
            3505 W. Melissa Ln.
            Douglasville, GA 30135
_________________________________________________________________
REPORT #3 "SOURCES FOR THE BEST MAILING LISTS"

ORDER REPORT #3 FROM:
            M&J's
            P.O. Box 116
            Whitewater, KS 67154
_________________________________________________________________
REPORT #4 "EVALUATING MULTILEVEL SALES PLANS"

ORDER REPORT #4 FROM:
            TanBsPlace
            P.O. BOX 43365
            Richmond Hights, OH 44143
_________________________________________________________________
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------
HERE'S HOW THIS AMAZING PLAN WILL MAKE YOU $MONEY$
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------

Let's say you decide to start small just to see how well it works.  Assume
your goal is to get 10 people to participate on your first level.  (Placing
a lot of FREE ads on the Internet will EASILY get a larger response.)  Also
assume that everyone else in YOUR ORGANIZATION gets ONLY 10 downline
members.  Follow this example to achieve the STAGGERING results below.

First level--your 10 members with
$5...........................................$50
Second level--10 members from those 10 ($5 x 100)..................$500
Third level--10 members from those 100 ($5 x 1,000)..........$5,000
Fourth level--10 members from those 1,000 ($5 x 10,000)...$50,000
                     THIS TOTALS        ----------->$55,550 and more to
come!

Remember friends, this assumes that the people who participate only recruit
10 people each.  Think for a moment what would happen if they got 20 people
to participate!  Lots of people get 100s of participants!  THINK ABOUT IT!

Your cost to participate in this is practically nothing (surely you can
afford $20).  You obviously already have an Internet connection and e-mail
is FREE!  REPORT#3 shows you the most productive methods for bulk e-mailing
and purchasing e-mail lists.  Some list & bulk e-mail vendors even work on
trade!

About 50,000 new people get online every month!

*******TIPS FOR SUCCESS*******

 *  TREAT THIS AS YOUR BUSINESS!  Be prompt, professional, and follow
     the directions accurately.

 *  Send for the four reports IMMEDIATELY so you will have them when
    the orders start coming in because:

    When you receive a $5 order, you MUST send out the requested
    product/report to comply with the U.S. Postal & Lottery Laws, Title
    18, Sections 1302 and 1341 or Title 18,  Section 3005 in the U.S. Code,
    also Code of Federal Regs. vol. 16, Sections 255 and 436, which state
    that "a product or service must be exchanged for money received."

 *  ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON THE ORDERS YOU RECEIVE.

 *  Be patient and persistent with this program. If you follow the
    instructions exactly, the results WILL undoubtedly be SUCCESSFUL!

 *  ABOVE ALL, HAVE FAITH IN YOURSELF AND KNOW YOU WILL SUCCEED!

*******YOUR SUCCESS GUIDELINE*******

Follow these guidelines to help assure your success:

If you don't receive 10 to 20 orders for REPORT #1 within two weeks,
continue advertising until you do.  Then, a couple of weeks later you should
receive at least 100 orders for REPORT #2.  If you don't, continue
advertising until you do.  Once you have received 100 or more orders for
REPORT #2, YOU CAN RELAX, because the system is already working for you, and
the cash can continue to roll in!

THIS IS IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER:

Every time your name is moved down on the list, you are placed in front of a
DIFFERENT report.  You can KEEP TRACK of your PROGRESS by watching which
report people are ordering from you.  If you want to generate more income,
send another batch of e-mails and start the whole process again!  There is
no limit to the income you will generate from this business!

NOTE: If you need help with starting a business, registering a business
name, how income tax is handled, etc., contact your local office of the
Small Business Administration (a Federal agency) for free help and answers
to questions.  Also, the Internal Revenue Service offers free help via
telephone and free seminars about business taxes.  This letter has been
edited to help comply with the Federal Trade Commission requirements.  Any
amounts of earnings listed in this letter can be factual or fictitious.
Your earnings and results are highly dependent on your activities and
advertising.  This letter constitutes no guarantees stated nor implied.  In
the event that it is determined that this letter constitutes a guarantee of
any kind, that guarantee is now void.  If you have any question of the
legality of this letter contact the Office of Associate Director for
Marketing Practices Federal Trade Commission Bureau of Consumer Protection
in Washington, DC.


*******T  E  S  T  I  M  O  N  I  A  L  S*******

     This program does work, but you must follow it EXACTLY!  Especially the
rule of not trying to place your name in a different position, it won't work
and you'll lose a lot of potential income.  I'm living proof that it works.
It really is a great opportunity to make relatively easy money, with little
cost to you.  If you do choose to participate, follow the program exactly,
and you'll be on your way to financial security.
          Sean McLaughlin, Jackson, MS

     My name is Frank.  My wife, Doris, and I live in Bel-Air, MD.  I am a
cost accountant with a major U.S. Corporation and I make pretty good money.
When I received the program I grumbled to Doris about receiving "junk mail."
I made fun of the whole thing, spouting my knowledge of the population and
percentages involved.  I "knew" it wouldn't work.  Doris totally ignored my
supposed intelligence and jumped in with both feet.  I made merciless fun of
her, and was ready to lay the old "I told you so" on her when the thing
didn't work ... well, the laugh was on me!  Within two weeks she had
received over 50 responses.  Within 45 days she had received over $147,200
in $5 bills!  I was shocked!  I was sure that I had it all figured and that
it wouldn't work.  I AM a believer now.  I have joined Doris in her "hobby."
I did have seven more years until retirement, but I think of the "rat race"
and it's not for me.  We owe it all to MLM.
           Frank T., Bel-Air, MD

    I just want to pass along my best wishes and encouragement to you.  Any
doubts you have will vanish when your first orders come in.  I even checked
with the U.S. Post Office to verify that the plan was legal.  It definitely
is!  IT WORKS!
           Paul Johnson, Raleigh, NC

    The main reason for this letter is to convince you that this system is
honest, lawful, extremely profitable, and is a way to get a large amount of
money in a short time.  I was approached several times before I checked this
out.  I joined just to see what one could expect in return for the minimal
effort and money required.  To my astonishment, I received $36,470.00 in the
first 14 weeks, with money still coming in.
           Sincerely yours, Phillip A. Brown, Esq.

    Not being the gambling type, it took me several weeks to make up my mind
to participate in this plan.  But conservative that I am, I decided that the
initial investment was so little that there was just no way that I wouldn't
get enough orders to at least get my money back.  Boy, was I surprised when
I found my medium-size post office box crammed with orders!  For a while, it
got so overloaded that I had to start picking up my mail at the window.
I'll make more money this year than any 10 years of my life before.  The
nice thing about this deal is that it doesn't matter where in the U.S. the
people live.  There simply isn't a better investment with a faster return.
         Mary Rockland, Lansing, MI

    I had received this program before.  I deleted it, but later I wondered
if I shouldn't have given it a try.  Of course, I had no idea who to contact
to get another copy, so I had to wait until I was e-mailed another
program...11 months passed then it came...I didn't delete this one!...I made
more than $41,000 on the first try!!
          D. Wilburn, Muncie, IN

     This is my third time to participate in this plan.  We have quit our
jobs, and will soon buy a home on the beach and live off the interest on our
money.  The only way on earth that this plan will work for you is if you do
it.  For your sake, and for your family's sake don't pass up this golden
opportunity.  Good luck and happy spending!
           Charles Fairchild, Spokane, WA

ORDER YOUR REPORTS TODAY AND GET
STARTED ON YOUR ROAD TO
FINANCIAL FREEDOM!!!






































From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: stocks@smart-stocks.com
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 20:17:06 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: AD: Free Investment Newsletter
Message-ID: <199809070317.UAA07181@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


This message is sent in compliance of the new e-mail bill: SECTION 301, 
Paragraph (a)(2)(C) of s. 1618

Sender : Smart-Stocks, P.O. Box 130544, St Paul, MN  55113
Phone  : 1-612-646-8174
E-mail : stocks@smart-stocks.com

To be removed from our mailing list, simply reply with "REMOVE" in the 
subject.

Do you need stock tips?

This is an invitation to join the Smart-Stocks Premier Newsletter for a 
free 90 day trial. We are dedicated to providing comprehensive and 
up-to-date information about emerging growth stocks often overlooked by 
most brokerages and stock market research services. Whether you are a 
seasoned investor or just getting started, The Smart-Stocks Web Site could 
help you discover the next Intel, Blockbuster or Merck long before the 
rest of Wall Street!

To sign up for your free trial newsletter just go to our site at 
http://www.smart-stocks.com

Thank you for your time.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Me2again3@aol.com
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 01:19:06 -0700 (PDT)
To: MorganJ3@aol.com
Subject: MORE MONEY THAN YOU CAN SPEND!!!
Message-ID: <79fe2d38.35f38fd2@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


WAIT!
Don't Delete this message.  I know what you're probably thinking, but think
again.  This is without a doubt the best way to make money I have ever tried
and you owe it to yourself to at least try it.  You have practically nothing
to lose ( It doesn't even take very much time) and so much to gain.  If you
will read this letter and do exactly as it says, you will soon find that life
is good....very good!


read on!!!

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

This is a LEGAL, MONEYMAKING PHENOMENON.
PRINT this letter, read the directions, THEN READ IT AGAIN !!!

You are about to embark on the most profitable and unique program you may ever
see.  Many times over, it has demonstrated and proven its ability to generate
large amounts of cash.  This program is showing fantastic appeal with a huge
and ever-growing on-line population desirous of additional income.

This is a legitimate, LEGAL, moneymaking opportunity.  It does not require you
to come in personal contact with people, do any hard work, and best of all,
you never have to leave the house, except to get the mail and go to the bank!

This truly is that lucky break you've been waiting for!  Simply follow the
easy instructions in this letter, and your financial dreams can come true!
When followed correctly, this electronic, multilevel marketing program WORKS!

Thousands of people have used this program to:
    -  Raise capital to start their own business
    -  Pay off debts
    -  Buy homes, cars, etc.,
    -  Even retire!

This is your chance, so don't pass it up!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
OVERVIEW OF THIS EXTRAORDINARY
ELECTRONIC MULTILEVEL MARKETING PROGRAM
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----

Basically, this is what we do:

We send thousands of people a product that they paid us $5.00 US for, that
costs next to nothing to produce and e-mail back to them.  As with all
multilevel businesses, we build our business by recruiting new partners and
selling our products.  Every state in the U.S. allows you to recruit new
multilevel business online (via your computer).  We are not promising you
anything.  You have to put forth some effort to make this business work, but
come on how hard is emailing!

The products in this program are a series of four business and financial
reports costing $5.00 each.  Each order you receive is to include:

  * $5.00 cash United States Currency
  * The name and number of the report they are ordering
  * The e-mail address where you will e-mail them the report they ordered.

To fill each order, you simply e-mail the product to the buyer.  THAT'S IT!
The $5.00 is yours!  This is the EASIEST electronic multilevel marketing
business anywhere!

FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS TO THE LETTER AND
BE PREPARED TO REAP THE STAGGERING BENEFITS!

******* I  N  S  T  R  U  C  T  I  O  N  S *******

This is what you MUST do:

1. Order all 4 reports shown on the list below (you can't sell them if you
don't order them).

     *  For each report, send $5.00 CASH, the NAME & NUMBER OF THE        
        REPORT YOU ARE ORDERING, YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS, and YOUR
        RETURN POSTAL ADDRESS (in case of a problem) to the person whose  
        name appears on the list next to the report.

     *  When you place your order, make sure you order each of the four   
        reports.  You will need all four reports so that you can save them
        on your computer and resell them.

     *  Within a few days you are to receive, via e-mail, each of the four
reports.
         Save them on your computer so they will be accessible for you to send
         to the 1,000's of people who will order them from you.

2.  IMPORTANT -- DO NOT alter the names of the people who are listed next 
     to each report, or their sequence on the list, in any way other than is
     instructed below in steps "a" through "d" or you will lose out on the
     majority of your profits.  Once you understand the way this works, you'll
     also see how it doesn't work if you change it.  Remember, this method
     has been tested, and if you alter it, it will not work.

    a.  Look below for the listing of available reports.

    b.  After you've ordered the four reports, replace the name and address
         under REPORT #1 with your name and address, moving the one that  
         was there down to REPORT #2.

    c.  Move the name and address that was under REPORT #2 down to        
         REPORT #3.

    d.  Move the name and address that was under REPORT #3 down to        
         REPORT #4.

    e.  The name and address that was under REPORT #4 is removed from     
         the list and has NO DOUBT collected large sums of cash!

Please make sure you copy everyone's name and address ACCURATELY!!!       

3.  Take this entire letter, including the modified list of names, and save
     it to your computer.  Make NO changes to the instruction portion of this
     letter.

4.  Now you're ready to start an advertising campaign on the
     WORLDWIDE WEB!  Advertising on the WEB can be very, very inexpensive,
     and there are HUNDREDS of FREE places to advertise.  Another
     avenue which you could use for advertising is e-mail lists.
     You can buy these lists for under $20/2,000 addresses or you
     can pay someone to take care of it for you.
     BE SURE TO START YOUR AD CAMPAIGN IMMEDIATELY!

5.  For every $5.00 you receive, all you must do is e-mail them the report
     they ordered.  THAT'S IT!  ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE
     ON ALL ORDERS!  This will help guarantee that the e-mail THEY send out,
     with YOUR name and address on it, will be prompt because they can't  
     advertise until they receive the report!  To grow fast be prompt and
courteous.

------------------------------------------
AVAILABLE REPORTS
------------------------------------------
***Order Each REPORT by NUMBER and NAME***

Notes:
-  ALWAYS SEND $5 CASH FOR EACH REPORT
-  ALWAYS SEND YOUR ORDER VIA THE QUICKEST DELIVERY
-  Make sure the cash is concealed by wrapping it in at least two sheets of
paper
-  On one of those sheets of paper, include: (a) the number & name of the
report you are ordering, (b)
your e-mail address, and (c) your postal address.
_________________________________________________________________
REPORT #1 "HOW TO MAKE $250,000 THROUGH MULTILEVEL SALES"

ORDER REPORT #1 FROM:
	Me2Again3
	4205 NE 130th AVE.
	Vancouver, WA. 98682
_________________________________________________________________
REPORT #2 "MAJOR CORPORATIONS AND MULTILEVEL SALES"

ORDER REPORT #2 FROM
             JAYSON DIAS
            4793 Birkdale Cir.
            Fairfield, CA 94585
_________________________________________________________________
REPORT #3 "SOURCES FOR THE BEST MAILING LISTS"

ORDER REPORT #3 FROM:
            BOBAYAA
	3505 W. Melissa Ln.
	Douglasville, GA 30135
_________________________________________________________________
REPORT #4 "EVALUATING MULTILEVEL SALES PLANS"

ORDER REPORT #4 FROM:
            :M&J's
            P.O. Box 116
            Whitewater, KS
_________________________________________________________________
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------
HERE'S HOW THIS AMAZING PLAN WILL MAKE YOU $MONEY$
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------

Let's say you decide to start small just to see how well it works.  Assume
your goal is to get 10 people
to participate on your first level.  (Placing a lot of FREE ads on the
Internet will EASILY get a larger
response.)  Also assume that everyone else in YOUR ORGANIZATION gets ONLY 10
downline
members.  Follow this example to achieve the STAGGERING results below.    

First level--your 10 members with
$5...........................................$50
Second level--10 members from those 10 ($5 x 100)..................$500   
Third level--10 members from those 100 ($5 x 1,000)..........$5,000       
Fourth level--10 members from those 1,000 ($5 x 10,000)...$50,000
                     THIS TOTALS        ----------->$55,550 and more to come!

Remember friends, this assumes that the people who participate only recruit 10
people each.  Think for a moment what would happen if they got 20 people to
participate!  Lots of people get 100s of participants!  THINK ABOUT IT!   

Your cost to participate in this is practically nothing (surely you can afford
$20).  You obviously already have an Internet connection and e-mail is FREE!
REPORT#3 shows you the most productive methods for bulk e-mailing and
purchasing e-mail lists.  Some list & bulk e-mail vendors even work on
trade!

About 50,000 new people get online every month!

*******TIPS FOR SUCCESS*******

 *  TREAT THIS AS YOUR BUSINESS!  Be prompt, professional, and follow     
     the directions accurately.

 *  Send for the four reports IMMEDIATELY so you will have them when      
    the orders start coming in because:

    When you receive a $5 order, you MUST send out the requested
    product/report to comply with the U.S. Postal & Lottery Laws, Title   
    18, Sections 1302 and 1341 or Title 18,  Section 3005 in the U.S. Code,
    also Code of Federal Regs. vol. 16, Sections 255 and 436, which state 
    that "a product or service must be exchanged for money received."     

 *  ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON THE ORDERS YOU RECEIVE.

 *  Be patient and persistent with this program. If you follow the        
    instructions exactly, the results WILL undoubtedly be SUCCESSFUL!     

 *  ABOVE ALL, HAVE FAITH IN YOURSELF AND KNOW YOU WILL SUCCEED!

*******YOUR SUCCESS GUIDELINE*******

Follow these guidelines to help assure your success:

If you don't receive 10 to 20 orders for REPORT #1 within two weeks, continue
advertising until you do.  Then, a couple of weeks later you should receive at
least 100 orders for REPORT #2.  If you don't, continue advertising until you
do.  Once you have received 100 or more orders for REPORT #2, YOU CAN RELAX,
because the system is already working for you, and the cash can continue to
roll in!

THIS IS IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER:

Every time your name is moved down on the list, you are placed in front of a
DIFFERENT report.  You can KEEP TRACK of your PROGRESS by watching which
report people are ordering from you.  If you want to generate more income,
send another batch of e-mails and start the whole process again! There is no
limit to the income you will generate from this business!

NOTE: If you need help with starting a business, registering a business name,
how income tax is handled, etc., contact your local office of the Small
Business Administration (a Federal agency) for free help and answers to
questions.  Also, the Internal Revenue Service offers free help via telephone
and free seminars about business taxes.  This letter has been edited to help
comply with the Federal Trade
Commission requirements.  Any amounts of earnings listed in this letter can be
factual or fictitious.  Your earnings and results are highly dependent on your
activities and advertising.  This letter constitutes no guarantees stated nor
implied.  In the event that it is determined that this letter constitutes a
guarantee of any kind, that guarantee is now void.  If you have any question
of the legality of this letter
contact the Office of Associate Director for Marketing Practices Federal Trade
Commission Bureau of consumer Protection in Washington, DC.

*******T  E  S  T  I  M  O  N  I  A  L  S*******

     This program does work, but you must follow it EXACTLY!  Especially the
rule of not trying to place your name in a different position, it won't work
and you'll lose a lot of potential income.  I'm living proof that it works



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED NEWS DAILY 
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 12:16:27 -0700 (PDT)
To: (STUFFED MONDAY SEPTEMBER 7 1998)
Subject: Bruise Cruise: New charter liner offers harsh reception/Grave Throbbing: Cemetary sex
Message-ID: <19980907071001.28854.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Our Photo Editor had a field day today selecting a
superb  bunch of  pics for  you.  So surf  over to
Stuffed now, and enjoy today's hot extravaganza!

 + PAGE 2 'SPREAD'
  + THUMBNAIL HEAVEN
   + GOOD F**K CHARM
    + SEXY STORY: "MY BEST FRIEND"
     + THE VERY BEST OF EUREKA!
      + CLITTY CLITTY BANG BANG
       + SUPER SEXY SURPRISE THUMBS
        + THUMBNAIL ORGY
         + ULTRA HI-RES POSTER PIC
          + LOADS AND LOADS MORE STUFF!

- Happy Labor Day!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/98/9/7/   <----

Welcome to  today's  issue of Stuffed. To read it you should
click on the URL above.  If it is not made clickable by your
email program  you will need to  use your mouse to highlight
the URL,  copy it and then paste it into your browser  (then
press Return).

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/98/9/7/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: watch34@usa.net
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 21:30:47 -0700 (PDT)
To: watch34@usa.net
Subject: Two most exciting BREAKTHROUGHS in health Science in the 20th century!
Message-ID: <199809071429.JAA24854@paknet2.ptc.pk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Subject: TWO Most Exciting BREAKTHROUGHS in
                Health Science in the  20TH CENTURY
   
ONE:  AGE REVERSING MIRACLE---
  Medical Science  PROVES it is now possible to REVERSE 10 TO 20
  YEARS of AGING in as little as  6  MONTHS.
  This PRODUCT releases the only substance in the body which has been
  Clinically Proven   to decrease wrinkles, increase energy, lose fat-gain
  muscle, improve vision, re-grow hair, restore sex drive, reduce cholesterol
  regenerate heart, liver, lungs, kidneys, prostate---and the list goes on---
 
TWO:  IMMUNE SYSTEM BUILDER---Fights COLDS to CANCERS
  NOW--An aternative to the overused antibiotics and other synthetic drugs-
  A natural product that boosted immune systems by an ave.of 1,267 %
  in one study group of over 100 people.
  * All types of Cancer--- in Remission
  *CFS Patients--Recovered and Feeling Great
  *Relief from Allergies--Colds--Flu
  *Even relief from Lupus--Aids--Hepatitus
  20 Years and 20 Million Dollars in Research to bring this Product
  to the Public.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
For Complete Details on the Products and/or the Huge Financial
Opportunity with a Very Minimal Investment--CALL 1-800-896-8991
Leave your name and number--We can then provide Recorded Calls,
Websites, Brochures, Tapes and etc.
              SJC Solutions  1292 Seven Springs Cir.  Marietta  GA  30068
                     To be removed from future mailings, please provide your E-mail address




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Global Web Builders 
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 02:01:58 -0700 (PDT)
To: (Recipient list suppressed)
Subject: One Nation's Primary Industry Policy
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980907090341.008d8474@gwb.com.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Dear One Nation supporter in NSW

Pauline Hanson's One Nation has just released its Primary Industry policy.

Please view:

http://www.gwb.com.au/onenation/policy/dpi.html

for details

GWB



Scott Balson





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED NEWS DAILY 
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 04:33:40 -0700 (PDT)
To: (STUFFED TUESDAY SEPTEMBER 8 1998)
Subject: Man arrested while screwing Pumpkin/Couple caught screwing in monkey cage
Message-ID: <19980908071001.16643.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


PLUS YOU GET 30+ FREE HI-RES JPEGS - AND...

 + PAGE 2 'SPREAD' - GORGEOUS GAL
  + WILD THUMBS - 10 JPEGS
   + THUMBNAIL HEAVEN - 10 MORE JPEGS
    + SEXY STORY: "HOME FOR BREAKFAST"
     + SEXY SURPRISE THUMBS - ANOTHER 10 JPEGS
      + STRIP CLUB SAFETY MANUAL - FASCINATING FEATURE
       + THE VERY BEST OF EUREKA! - HOT SITES
        + ULTRA HI-RES POSTER PIC - SAVE IT, PRINT IT
         + LOADS AND LOADS MORE STUFF - CHECK IT OUT!

- Have fun!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/98/9/8/   <----

Welcome to  today's  issue of Stuffed. To read it you should
click on the URL above.  If it is not made clickable by your
email program  you will need to  use your mouse to highlight
the URL,  copy it and then paste it into your browser  (then
press Return).

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/98/9/8/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: noldcosts@usa.net
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 22:10:30 -0700 (PDT)
To: noldcosts@usa.net
Subject: You Can Now Have A Free Cellular Phone!
Message-ID: <199809080511.HAA09289@mailhost.axime.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





When you enter our fantastic lead program (only $99 plus $35 setup fee
onetime)  and complete a 2 x 2 forced matrix you will recieve 
$100 plus as a bonus a Nokia 6160 digital cellular phone with 600 minutes
of service on the #1 cellular carrier in the United States
(THIS OFFER IS GOOD IN ALL 50 STATES OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA)

When all 6 sales within your matrix have been completed, you will earn
$400 in commissions, ($200 will be deducted for a re-entry purchase of
300 phone leads) and start over again in the highest available position
of your sponsor's current matrix.  Bonuses include a FREE Nokia 6160
digital PCS phone with your first check, and 600 minutes of FREE airtime
utilizing the AT&T wireless network ($100 additional deducted from 1st
check).  Thereafter, with every check, you will qualify to receive an
additional 600 minutes of airtime. 
ALL COMMISSION CHECKS ARE CALCULATED DAILY AND SENT WEEKLY VIA OVERNIGHT
DELIVERY!

DOUBLE MATCHING BONUS!
On every cycle after the 1st, you will be in position to qualify for a
double matching bonus on all your personally sponsored, and their
personally sponsored, as they complete their second and third and so on,
cycles.  This will provide an extra incentive for you to work beyond your
current 2 x 2 matrix.

FAST FACTS ON THE NOKIA PHONE AND THE AT&T ONE RATE PLAN.
***** The phone:
Nokia 6160 Dual Band phone that works in both analog (cellular) and
digital areas.
Features include slim design (6oz.) and a minute minder to keep track of
your minutes used.

Free battery and charger included.
For more information hit REPLY and type  _________ in the subject box





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: pooppido@fffff.net
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 10:14:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Info.
Message-ID: <199809081714.KAA13329@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



 THAT'S 5 cents per minute!!!

         SPECIAL PROMOTION - Limited Time Only!

 Between NOW and September 30th
 You Can Receive:
 5˘ per minute state to state!!
 9˘ per minute within the state!!
 5˘ per minute to selected International Countries!!
 5˘ per min to these selected international destinations:
 CANADA, BELGIUM,  AUSTRALIA, GERMANY, 
 FRANCE, NETHERLANDS, NEW ZEALAND, 
 SWEDEN, THE UNITED KINGDOM

          THAT'S  5 cents per minute!!!
 
PLUS A FREE PRE-PAID CALLING CARD AFTER YOU SIGN UP!!!!          
       
 

TO START SAVING IMMEDIATELY AND TAKE 
 ADVANTAGE OF THIS LIMITED TIME PROMOTION
 RESPOND BY E-MAIL to :  rha@s-tuff.com 

How do You ...SAVE! On your long distance phone bill!!! 

      11 year-old Telecommunications GIANT 
           Can Help You Save  UP TO 30% 
                OVER AT&T & SPRINT!
                       Permanently!!!

 In fact, NO ONE can beat our International Rates!
 And now we are taking domestic long distance by 
 storm!!

After September 30, 1998 rates are just...
           7˘ per minute State-to-State*
                   
           9˘ per minute Within the state 
                      24 hrs. a day
                     7 days a week. 
                    Unlimited calls! 
                      Guaranteed!
         No minimum usage requirements! 
         No separate Phone Bills! (Charges will be 
         included on the long distance
         portion of your local phone bill, so that you can
         pay with a single check. 
        
         INCREDIBLY LOW INTERNATIONAL RATES! 

        SAMPLE INTERNATIONAL RATES
            (Our rates are effective August 1, 1998 )      
                          
                        CAN YOU BELIEVE IT!       
         **Only 7 cents per min to and from:  
 Puerto Rico, Guam, Canada, Hawaii and Alaska!!

                            OUR RATE    AT&T ONE RATE 
 COUNTRY            PER MIN.      INTERNATIONAL                  
 Brazil .                     .46                    .55
 China                        .63                    .80 
 Cuba                         .64                    .84 
 France .                     .14                    .33
 Germany                      .14                    .33
 Hong Kong                    .24                    .61
 Italy                        .23                    .35 
 Japan                        .26                    .35
 Philippines                  .49                    .77  
 South Korea                  .35                    .39
 Taiwan, Rep China            .35                    .46         
 India                        .67                    .80
 UK                           .09                    .12   
 Mexico City                  .29                     N/A     
               
 and many, many more!   

                    OUR NETWORK

 Brought to you by a global long distance company 
 with a high-tech fiber optic network that provides 
 the high-quality crystal clear telecommunications
 you've come to expect. 

 We operate a 35,000 mile fiber optic backbone in 
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 We maintain switching hubs in major cities throughout
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           OUR CUSTOMER SERVICE

 We provide multi-lingual customer service and 
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    SPECIAL PROMOTION - Limited Time Only!

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RESPOND BY E-MAIL  to : cool5cents@yahoo.com 

PENBELL COMMUNICATIONS
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Dallas, TX. 75231
214-750-4738


 
 
 
 
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Merchant Services 
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 20:29:05 -0700 (PDT)
To: Merchant Accounts 
Subject: CREDIT CARD PROCESSING
Message-ID: <199809081528.LAA11834@compuserve.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


---------------------------------------------------------
We received your email as someone who might be interested
in our services. If this was a mistake please email us
with "remove in the subject line" 
---------------------------------------------------------

Dear Friend,

How would you like to be able to accept credit cards
directly from your website, telephone or fax for your
products and services and never need to purchase or lease
expensive credit card equipment or pay a monthly 
fee for online ordering capabilities?

**Brand New** Telecharge Credit Card acceptance program 
allows you to accept VISA or Mastercard any TIME,any WHERE 
through phone, fax or internet without the need to purchase 
or lease expensive credit card equipment. This brand new 
program will allow you to accept credit cards tomorrow.
You simply pick up your telephone, dial a special toll free
800# 24 hrs a day 7 days a week, input a passcode and the
credit card # and receive an immediate authorization over the phone.
Within 2 days the money will be in your bank account. This is
an exciting program for all businesses. Before you spend any money
on a credit card program LOOK at this new program! 
To have a representative call you to explain the details of this
program please email your Name, Phone Number (Don't forget your area code)
and best time to call to:

mailto:chargeit6@usa.net  

A representative will  return your call within 24hrs. 
A 100 % approval rate. This is a special promotion 
and for a limited time. Start today and save an additional 36%. 
Also receive 6 months of online advertising absolutely FREE!
for your business.

Feel free to call us and leave a message. A representative will return
your call within 24hrs.
World Tech Inc.
818-718-9429
7210 Jordan Ave.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: dietpatches@bigfoot.com
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 14:51:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: New! All Natural Weight Loss "Patch"!
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Do you know anyone that needs to lose weight?

Of course you do! There are over 92 million overweight people in the US alone. The weight-loss 
industry brings in billions of dollars each year.  A recent Harris poll indicated that 74% of Americans 
are overweight or would like to lose a few pounds.

THE ALL NATURAL WEIGHT LOSS PATCH

Just introduced in May, 1998, the All Natural TrimPatch is the most significant development in the 
industry.  The patch suppresses appetite, naturally.  100% homeopathic ingredients, with time 
released nutrients that enter the bloodstream through the skin.  Just peel and stick.  Four years in 
development.  87% of people lost weight in clinical studies.  60 Medical Doctors and Pharmacists on 
advisory board.  No shakes or drinks, no pills, no special menus.

THE PRODUCT:

The transdermal weight loss patch, call "All Natural TrimPatch" is a simple, safe and sensible way to 
lose and control weight.  It is completely homeopathic, with time-released nutrients that enter the 
bloodstream through the skin.  Transdermal is the third most effective way to introduce a substance 
to the body, after intravenous and sub-lingual.  TrimPatch works by suppressing an person's 
appetite and increasing fat metabolism.  It has NO stimulants.  Simply Peel, Stick, and Forget!

TESTING:

The product was tested over 2 years on 2,400 people with an 87% success rate.  It was overseen 
by 60 MD's in consultation with many Homeopaths.  There were no side effects in the entire study, 
other than a slight minor rash from the adhesive on some people, which left in 24 hours.  Double 
blind placebo test methods were used.  Over 900 MD's were on the Manufacturer's Advisory Board.  
There are 60 Medical Doctors and pharmacists who have been active in the clinical studies of the 
patch.

PRODUCT EFFECTIVENESS:

The average weight loss was 3 lbs. after 2 weeks, 8 lbs. after 4 weeks, and 13 lbs. after 6 weeks.

GURARANTEED RESULTS BY THE COMPANY:

All Patches come with a 30 day, 100% money back guarantee. 

MARKET:

Weight loss is a $33 billion dollar a year industry. Think about it. How many people do you know 
personally who'd like to be trim? With the recent withdrawal of Redux & Phen-Fen from the 
market, people want a SAFE product to help them balance their weight.  More than a third of the 
American population is overweight. 53 million people are considered "obese." A Harris Poll 
(February, 1996) reveals that "74% OF AMERICANS ARE OVERWEIGHT." Our society wants 
something that is easy for them to do. 

Transdermal application industry is rapidly growing. Nicoderm, Vitamin C, Nitro-Glycerin, Estrogen, 
Testosterone, Cortisone, Pain, Morphine, Motion Patches, and Local Anesthetic Patches are 
currently being used.

INGREDIENTS:

Ingredients of The All Natural Trim Patch, and the role they play in balancing our weight naturally:
Abies Canadensis -- Hemlock Spruce - suppresses appetite craving for meat 
Ammonium Bromatum -- Bromide of ammonia - suppresses appetite and headaches 
Ammonium Carbonicum -- Carbonate of ammonia - suppresses appetite 
Ammonium Muriaticum -- (will get the scoop) 
Antimonium Crudum -- Assists in cleansing the body of fat 
Argentum Nitricum -- Nitrate of silver - suppresses appetite for sweets 
Calcarea Carbonica -- Carbonate of lime - suppresses cravings for indigestible food 
Capsicum Annuum -- cayenne pepper - assists in bowel function, elimination 
Cinchona Officinalis -- Peruvian bark from China - enhances digestion 
Fucus Vesiculosus -- Seaweed-based kelp - rejuvenates sluggish thyroid* 
Graphites -- Plumbago - suppresses feeling of hunger in the stomach 
Kali Bichromicum -- Bichromate of potash - enhances digestion 
Kali Carbonicum -- Carbonate of potassium - suppresses desire for sweets 
Kali Phosphoricum -- suppresses desire for sweets 
Lycopodium Clavatum -- Club moss - suppresses excessive hunger Natrum 
Muriaticum -- Chloride of sodium - suppresses appetite 
Phosphorus -- suppresses appetite soon after you eat 
Phytolocca Decandra Berry -- Poke root - assists in killing fungi and their spores 
Pulsatilla -- Wild flower - suppresses appetite for fatty and warm 
foods Sabadilla -- Cevadilla seed - suppresses appetite for sweets 
Silicea -- Pure flint - tendency to create balance in the body 
Spongia Tosta -- Roasted sponge - suppresses excessive hunger 
Staphysagria -- Stavesacre - tendency to increase feeling of strength 
Sulphur -- Sublimated sulphur - suppresses excessive appetite 
Thyroidinum -- suppresses appetite for sweets, rejuvenates sluggish 
thyroid* tends to eliminate nausea and indigestion, thirst for cold water 
Veratrum Album -- White hellspore - suppresses voracious appetite
Thyroid rejuvenation is crucial for increased metabolism of fat, as the thyroid gland controls 
metabolism. An increase in thyroid activity lends itself, therefore, to fat metabolism, as you well know.
This information has been taken from Materia Medica with Repertory, Ninth Edition, published by 
Boericke & Tafel Inc., Santa Barbara, California.

TO PLACE AN ORDER OR TO SPEAK WITH A CUSTOMER SERVICE REPRESENTATIVE 
CALL: (732) 536-5734

FOR INFORMATION ON BECOMING A NATURAL BODYLINES DISTRIBUTOR, CALL: (888) 718-
3175 FOR A 5 MINUTE, 24 HOUR RECORDED MESSAGE.

Email: dietpatches@bigfoot.com

Bonnie Levy
Natural Bodylines
Official Distributor
(732) 536-5734











From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: joe@printing.com
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 15:37:21 -0700 (PDT)
To: joe@printing.com
Subject: Auto Reply to your message ...
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


  -----  The following text is an automated response to your message  -----
Thank you for requesting samples of Web Cards.
We will be sending you several samples and a brochure within 24 hours.

Web Cards can be used in so many ways that we've prepared a special free
report on how 50 businesses have used them.  To get your report, simply
send an email to ideas@printing.com and it will be sent to you by email
immediately.

Web Cards are easy to order too.  You can use the on-line form at our Web
Site www.printing.com or print the form and fax it to 908-757-2604 or call
us at 800-352-2333.  We're very helpful and will work with you to adapt
your site to a postcard at no charge.

After setting up your card (which takes about 24 hours), we'll post a
"proof" of what it looks like on the Web and send you the address for you
to approve.  And if you have any changes, don't hesitate, there's no charge
for helping you get exactly what you want.

In the meantime, if you have any questions or would like sample cards for a
specific type of business, please call us at 800-352-2333 or email me at
joe@printing.com.

Sincerely,

Joe Haedrich
President




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jen@evision.nac.net
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 21:34:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: PEDIATRIC ADVISE -  FREE WEBSITE
Message-ID: <199809090432.AAA17439@evision.nac.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


If you are a parent you owe it to yourself to visit this site. It is the greatest relief site for all parents. Dr. Paula is the most non judgemental pediatrician I have ever heard of and her site is incredible. Every parent question gets answered usualy within a day. Check it out and please do not be angry that I send you this e-mail. It is only with good intention as I believe this site will be helpfull to you or someone you know.
Visit it at  http://www.drpaula.com
A New Mother.









From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: qimoo@clinet.fi
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 22:13:31 -0700 (PDT)
To: qimoo@clinet.fi
Subject: Advertise! Cheap, Quick & Easy!
Message-ID: <19980908353GAA9500@post.nrcps.ariadne-t.gr>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Let A-1 Internet Marketing introduce you to the world of Cyberspace. 

Advertise over the Internet Cheap and Quick.  It's as easy as 1, 2, 3!!

Targeted e-mail is the newest way of advertising.  It only takes a phone call
to place your message in front thousands or even millions of people at a 
price you can't afford to pass up.

Don't wait any longer.  Let's get started now!  Special rates avaiable.


Give us a call toll free.......
                 
                                         ** 1-877-268-8281 **


NOTE:  If this message has reached you in error, we sincerely appologize.  
If you would like to be removed from our mailing list, please call the 800
number listed above and slowly spell and speak your e-mail address so that 
we may process your request promptly.  You will be removed!!  Thank you.                              
ex8




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: CTIA Daily News 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 14:50:47 -0700 (PDT)
To: CTIA Daily News 
Subject: CTIA Daily News from WOW-COM - September 9, 1998
Message-ID: <199809092038.PAA04335@revnet3.revnet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



CTIA's Daily News From WOW-COM was not circulated yesterday and today because
of a wireline telephone system failure that is disrupting service to the
Cellular Telecommunications Industry Association building in Washington, D.C. 
We regret the inconvenience this may have caused you and look forward to
resuming the Daily News service as soon as possible. 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nokia@mail.kmsp.com
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 09:15:30 -0700 (PDT)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: Eliminate your present phone bill......
Message-ID: <199809092110.CAA24580@shakti.ncst.ernet.in>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


A FREE Nokia 6160 digital PCS phone that covers the 50 United States 
including Alaska and Hawaii and 600 FREE minutes of airtime utilizing
the AT&T wireless network with No roaming or Long Distance charges!
Eliminate your current phone bill forever as you continue to receive free airtime.

Nokia 6160 digital PCS phone sent
via Federal Express direct from AT&T.

Listen to our 3 Minute recorded Presentation regarding this Free Nokia Phone
offer at 1-888-834-5017 or 1-888-248-6031
Pull up the Fax-on-Demand at 1-716-720-2299

Not only can you get a FREE Nokia 6160 phone, you can receive residual income that allows the sky to be the limit as
far as your future income is concerned.
Need more information: 
listen to our 24hr recorded conference call at 1-212-796-6870

To get started after listening to the 3 minute message, you will need the following information:
Sponsor ID:  22-1569104
Sponsor Phone: 1-800-636-6773 ext 4533
Let me know if you decide to join so I can help you receive your FREE phone by next week.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED NEWS DAILY 
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 13:39:25 -0700 (PDT)
To: (STUFFED WEDNESDAY SEPTEMBER 9 1998)
Subject: The full Monica: Novel new 'service'/Collectors' issue - New interface tomorrow
Message-ID: <19980909172510.14118.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Today is the last day using the current interface. After
much research we designed a new front end along the lines
of what many of you had been asking for. And it's turned
out to be super-fast too. That's tomorrow's issue. But for
today, here's what you also get!

+ 30+ FREE HI-RES JPEGS
 + PAGE 2 'SPREAD': A GORGEOUS GAL
  + RAUNCHY RECIPE: CRAFTY COOK
   + LA WINDSKY: AMAZING MODEL
    + KEEP IT IN THE FAMILY: STRANGE ENCOUNTER
 + CLINTON CONDOMS: YES IT'S TRUE
  + ASS-PIRIN: SEX AND DRUGS
   + WILD THUMBNAILS: 10 FREE PICS
    + SEXY STORY: "THE GROUPIE"
     + THE VERY BEST OF EUREKA! - YOUR FAVORITE SITES
  + SEXY SURPRISE THUMBS: 10 MORE FREE PICS 
   + FOOD FOR SEX: FASCINATING FEATURE
    + MEGA THUMBNAIL ORGY: ANOTHER 10 FREE PICS
     + ULTRA HI-RES POSTER PIC: SAVE IT, PRINT IT
      + LOADS AND LOADS MORE STUFF: CHECK IT OUT!

- Have fun!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/98/9/9/   <----

Welcome to  today's  issue of Stuffed. To read it you should
click on the URL above.  If it is not made clickable by your
email program  you will need to  use your mouse to highlight
the URL,  copy it and then paste it into your browser  (then
press Return).

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/98/9/9/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jrjeffro@aol.com
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 19:18:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199809100227.TAA19261@emke.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


HaCkaZ OnlY Da EliTe

HelLO YaLL DiS is Da MaDD AAOOLL HaCka Ima startin a GreWp fOR HaCs Only So In OthA WerDS yA gOttA KnOw The WAreZ anD HoW toO UsEr FaTe AnD AOL So MaIl Or Im Me FoR Da TeTaIls If YeR LeeTo K 
Pe@CE FrOmE The LeeTs HacK
JeFFrO)
>




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: CTIA Daily News 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 08:40:02 -0700 (PDT)
To: CTIA Daily News 
Subject: CTIA Daily News from WOW-COM - September 10, 1998
Message-ID: <199809101601.LAA02273@revnet3.revnet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary..3996.1071713804.multipart/mixed"

--Boundary..3996.1071713804.multipart/mixed
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit




==========================================
Welcome to today's edition of the CTIA Daily News
from WOW-COM. Please click on the icon / attachment
for the most important news in wireless communications today.

The future of your company will be announced
October 12 @ Wireless I.T.  Will you be there?

CLICK HERE NOW TO SIGN UP AND SAVE
http://www.wirelessit.com/portal.htm 

Team WOW-COM
wowcom@ctia.org
===========================================
 




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--Boundary..3996.1071713804.multipart/mixed--



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED NEWS DAILY 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 11:44:51 -0700 (PDT)
To: (STUFFED THURSDAY SEPTEMBER 10 1998)
Subject: NEW MEGA FAST INTERFACE FROM TODAY + 30 HOT JPEGS AT LIGHTNING DOWNLOAD SPEED
Message-ID: <19980910164827.12223.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


In today's super-fast, totally revamped Stuffed
you'll find there's much more than ever before!

30 SCORCHING JPEGS .......... FIVE SEXY STORIES
NET SEX THERAPY ...... DRIVE THROUGH WHOREHOUSE
TOO CHEAP FOR SEX . SUPERMARKET SKIRT SNATCHING
FILMS TO FUCK BY ...................... SEX BED
TRUCK ME BABY .. TALKING DICK SPEAKS PORTUGUESE
BVD BANDIT BUSTED ................ LEO_S LIZARD
FRANTIC PHALLIC FRESCOS .......... PLONKER BOMB
BEST OF EUREKA ............... MUCH, MUCH MORE!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/98/9/10/   <----

Welcome to  today's  issue of Stuffed. To read it you should
click on the URL above.  If it is not made clickable by your
email program  you will need to  use your mouse to highlight
the URL,  copy it and then paste it into your browser  (then
press Return).

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/98/9/10/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: win@winwinwin.com
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 18:18:36 -0700 (PDT)
To: anyone@your_server.com
Subject: You and your guest could be the lucky winners.
Message-ID: <199573420021.G5398874@winwinwin.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


    Win a FREE vacation at:   http://www.winwinwin.com

               *****  WIN A FREE VACATION  ****

You and your guest could be the lucky winners.

Through this online registration service, you may register daily for 
vacations to Puerto Vallarta, Disney World, Palm Springs, and many other 
"Vacation-hot-spots."

With the help of our reputable Sponsors, winwinwin.com is pleased to 
offer this incredible Free Vacation Giveaway! There is no purchase 
necessary and entering the sweepstakes is easy.

Point your browser to http://www.winwinwin.com and register now!

This web site now uses "Cookies Technology".  What this means is that 
once you have successfully registered to win a Free Vacation, all of 
your information will be saved in our database, and as long as your 
"Cookies" are active you will not need to re-enter any information 
into the submit form.  Also, every time you visit one of our sponsors 
you will automatically be registered again to win a Free Vacation!  WOW!  
A free entry every time you visit one of our sponsors!  So, please...  
visit as many sponsors as you would like, because it will increase your 
chances of being chosen.

To our winners: we have made arrangements for you and someone special
to enjoy your choice of several FREE deluxe Hotel Accommodation Packages.

We are aware of the rigmarole of your complex and busy lives. That is 
why we have found a solution that will help ease your stress by allowing 
you the opportunity to choose from a selection of resort retreat-spots.

So, please... sit back and be free of worries! Take advantage of this free
online service. Who knows... before you know it, you might just be basking
on the beach or "playing it up" in Atlantic City.

You are welcome to come back and re-submit as often as you please, however
players are limited to only one entry per day (and NOW, you can re-submit
once per day per sponsor).

In return for this great service, we would like to ask that you please 
spread the word. There are plenty of vacations available...  please tell 
your friends and family to give us a visit.

Visit us at http://www.winwinwin.com today.

For more information or to get started as an authorized Sponsor of
WinWinWin.com, email us at sponsors@glaid.com. We will be glad to discuss
the entire program with you in detail and help you get started!

Regards,

The WinWinWin.com Team

EMAIL:  info@winwinwin.com
WEB:    http://www.winwinwin.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
This email is never sent unsolicited. This is a WinWinWin.com mailing! -03
Per Section 301, Paragraph (a) (2) (C) of S. 1618, further transmissions
to you by the sender of this email may be stopped at no cost to you by
-forwarding- this entire message to remove@winwinwin.com.
http://www.senate.gov/~murkowski/commercialemail/EMailAmendText.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------------





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Marita =?iso-8859-1?Q?N=E4sman=2DRepo?= 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 11:05:18 -0700 (PDT)
To: F-SECURE-Press-global@DataFellows.com
Subject: PRESS RELEASE: Data Fellows Introduces F-Secure NameSurfer Version 2.0
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980910174328.009258c0@smtp.datafellows.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


For your information:

#######################################################

Data Fellows Introduces F-Secure NameSurfer Version 2.0   

SAN JOSE, CA -- Data Fellows, the global leader in Internet security
solutions, has today announced the new version 2.0 of its F-Secure
NameSurfer DNS (Domain Name System) management tool. 

DNS translates host names to IP addresses and is a critical component of
any IP based network. F-Secure NameSurfer provides network managers an
easy- to-use Web interface for DNS administration, saving time and
maintenance resources. Its intuitive graphical user interface and automatic
error checking prevent network managers from generating faulty DNS data.
Faulty DNS data can bring down the entire IP network, so correctness of DNS
data is essential for reliable and secure Internet and intranets. 

F-Secure NameSurfer 2.0 has been extensively restructured to achieve
peerless performance in the markets, especially in large DNS installations.
The new version also makes it possible to prevent the network manager from
creating address records whose IP address falls outside his own network.
Thus, ISPs can give their customers the permission to change addresses and
still be sure that customers stay in their own network zone. 

F-Secure NameSurfer translates into significant savings in network
management. The intuitive graphical user interface saves network managers'
time in doing DNS configurations. The configurations can be done remotely
and by multiple network managers with personal administration rights. The
routine tasks can be delegated to clerical staff. Ultimately even end-users
or ISP customers can administer their own DNS data, with a Web browser, as
a self-service. 

Prime target customer groups for F-Secure NameSurfer are telecommunication
operators, Internet Service Providers (ISP), and other organizations that
need the best tool in the markets to manage Internet or intranet security.
Among F-Secure NameSurfer customers are ISPs like US WEST INTERACT,
Concentric Network Corporation, and The Finnish University and Research
Network, as well as international corporate customers such as Barclays Bank
PLC, Motorola Semiconductor Product Services, and UPM-Kymmene.

F-Secure NameSurfer 2.0 is now available from Data Fellows' resellers
around the world. The product is available for all the popular Unix
platforms. Pricing starts at $990.

With offices in San Jose, CA, and Helsinki, Finland, privately-owned Data
Fellows is the leading technology provider of data security solutions for
computer networks and desktop computers. The company's F-Secure data
security product line includes the groundbreaking F-Secure Anti-Virus,
which facilitates two of the world's best scanning engines, F-PROT
Professional and AVP, within the same system for unparalleled virus
detection rates; F-Secure SSH for securing all popular TCP/IP applications;
and F-Secure VPN for creating secure virtual private networks. The
company's products are relied on by many of the world's largest companies,
governments, universities and institutions. The products are available
world-wide in more than 80 countries through Data Fellows and its business
partners. 

For more information, please contact 

USA: 

Data Fellows Inc.
Mr. Pirkka Palomaki, Product Manager
Tel. +1 408 938 6700 
Fax +1 408 938 6701
E-mail: Pirkka.Palomaki@DataFellows.com 

Europe: 

Data Fellows Oy
Mr. Petri Nyman, Director of Sales
PL 24
FIN-02231 ESPOO 
Tel. +358 9 859 900
Fax +358 9 8599 0599
E-mail: Petri.Nyman@DataFellows.com 
All media inquiries: Open City Communications, 212-714-3575 or
Opencity@aol.com

###########################################################

Kind regards

Marita Nasman-Repo
Communicator, Media Relations



--
marita.nasman-repo@DataFellows.com, 
World-Wide Web http://www.DataFellows.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: attila 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 20:36:06 -0700 (PDT)
To: Undisclosed recipients:  ;
Subject: tickling the cheshire cat
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980910152608.0367d6cc@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



    let's see, the banks other than the select few bankers' banks and
    the Rockefeller-Rothschild central bank cartels are out 'n' billion,
    but that only represents an infinitesimal fraction of the middle class
    loss since it's paper to the banks, but life savings to the middle class.

    Thailand, Indonesia, Malaysia, Korea --the pet tigers of the US-Brit
    money cartels all propped up, but actually setup by the IMF and their
    rules which destroy their infrastructure in favour of the cartel.
    suckers one, suckers all.

    Japan started it all with their economic isolation, multi-level
    cronyism, state sponsored economic terror, and scientific cannibalism.
    Japan sits on 50% crony-deals and the banks are falling like dominoes,
    but Japan today is Japan for centuries; they wont take their medicine.

    The Arabs are in hock up to their headbands and real income in
    Saudi Arabia has fallen from 14,000 in 1991 to less than 4,000
    today...  but, now they wont fight each other as they found the 
    common unifier as the Tomahawk IIs crashed into Sudan and 
    Afghanistan.

    Italy, France, and even Germany cooked their books to make the
    Masstricht and Germany suffers from 13% unemployment; the EC can not 
    afford their socialism and Kohl will need a new dinner table.

    Russia caves in after the mob bilked the international money market
    for over $500 billion!  the summit of the doomed: pairing a demented,
    addled drunk with a moral bankrupt went Saturday Night Live...

    and the only two economies which have been able to maintain their
    standard of living are watching...

    meanwhile, Rubin cooks the books, steals the Social Security
    Administration's kitty for unfunded IOUs.  the export of money
    grows and grows and grows --to China, whose state planned economy
    is as crony booked as Japan and China is preoccupied with learning
    to swim.

    Clinton thinks he can apologize for anything and Blair is playing
    cards in the back room. Ambrose came back to Washington to wait 
    for the kill. forget the report to Congress, give the backup
    material the fraudulent duo buried in 100 graves to hollyweird 
    --they wont need new plots for years.

    follow the money... dont worry about value; it's only relevant.

	attila out...    tickling the chesire cat.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED NEWS DAILY 
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 09:35:23 -0700 (PDT)
To: (STUFFED FRIDAY SEPTEMBER 11 1998)
Subject: NEW MEGA FAST INTERFACE + 30 ULTRA HOT JPEGS AT LIGHTNING DOWNLOAD SPEED
Message-ID: <19980911071000.26675.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


In today's super-fast, totally revamped Stuffed
you'll find there's much more than ever before!

   IN TODAY'S ISSUE: X-RATED BASEBALL; ARMPIT
   ASS ATTRACTER; 10 BEST AND WORST THINGS A
     GUY CAN DO AFTER SEX; THE PERFECT BABE;
    THE PERFECT DUDE; BEST OF EUREKA; OCEAN
     LOVE POTION; CALIFORNIA COCK-TASTING
      PARTY; PUBLIC STRIPPING; ORGASM DRUG
                  DISCOVERED

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/98/9/11/   <----

Welcome to  today's  issue of Stuffed. To read it you should
click on the URL above.  If it is not made clickable by your
email program  you will need to  use your mouse to highlight
the URL,  copy it and then paste it into your browser  (then
press Return).

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/98/9/11/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: CTIA Daily News 
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 09:03:06 -0700 (PDT)
To: CTIA Daily News 
Subject: CTIA Daily News from WOW-COM - September 11, 1998
Message-ID: <199809111559.KAA08514@mailstrom.revnet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary..3996.1071713804.multipart/mixed"

--Boundary..3996.1071713804.multipart/mixed
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit



==========================================
Welcome to today's edition of the CTIA Daily News
from WOW-COM.  Please click on the icon / attachment
for the most important news in wireless communications today.

The future of your company will be announced
October 12 @ Wireless I.T.  Will you be there?

CLICK HERE NOW TO SIGN UP AND SAVE
http://www.wirelessit.com/portal.htm

Team WOW-COM
wowcom@ctia.org
===========================================

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: qacado1@dallas.net (amz4 ent., inc.)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 10:37:32 -0700 (PDT)
To: qacado1@dallas.net
Subject: <>
Message-ID: <199809112222GAA55723@abc.npn.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




PROFESSIONAL CONSULTANTS



Our corporation, through a network of professional
consultants, markets a radical cutting edge  "DATA BASE"
tool to corporations throughout North America that 
in turn, assisted these companies increase their sales
from 10 to 100 percent.

We are seeking a few select key individuals in specific 
geographic areas who will, in association with 
ourselves, offer our program to local companies.

A six figure income is possible in the first year, with
strong residual income in the future years.

There is an $8,250 investment.

To receive a complete package of printed information
by regular mail,  please call  our voice mail system
at:(214)984-3099 and leave your name and address.


Thank you for your time.

  
  

1-1998





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Scott Balson" 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 21:15:52 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: One Nation tax policy on ABC
Message-ID: <009f01bddd3a$fd9e65e0$f81c64cb@QU.fox.uq.net.ai>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





Dear One Nation supporter in NSW
 
We anticipate that the ABC's 7.30 Report will 
cover One Nation's discussion document on tax:  "2%EASYTAX" 
tonight.
 
We cannot guarantee how it will be presented but we are 
pleased that the ABC, unlike other Australian media, are apparently giving us 
the opportunity to present our views on why the tax should be 
considered.
 
The tax proposal has not been given a fair go by 
the media so far.
See: http://www.gwb.com.au/tax.htm
 
Global Web Builders
 
 
Scott Balson
Pauline Hanson's Web Master


From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: CTIA Daily News 
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 15:12:38 -0700 (PDT)
To: CTIA Daily News 
Subject: LATE BREAKING NEWS! - September 11, 1998 5:30PM EST
Message-ID: <199809112211.RAA20962@revnet4.revnet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




************************************************************

Late today, the FCC released its long-awaited
order extending the October 25, 1998, CALEA
compliance deadline 20 months to June 30, 2000.

The Commission will soon initiate a rulemaking
proceeding to consider whether modifications
to the core J-STD-025 standard may be necessary
to comply with CALEA.

Visit WOW-COM for more details.

http://www.wow-com.com/professional/

Specific News Story is:

http://www.wow-com.com/results/professional/news/frameindex.cfm?articlei
d=3410


************************************************************




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED NEWS DAILY 
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 01:22:06 -0700 (PDT)
To: (STUFFED SATURDAY SEPTEMBER 12 1998)
Subject:       ---->   http://stuffed.net/98/9/12/   <----
Message-ID: <19980912071001.29383.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Welcome to  today's  issue of Stuffed. To read it you should
click on the URL above.  If it is not made clickable by your
email program  you will need to  use your mouse to highlight
the URL,  copy it and then paste it into your browser  (then
press Return).

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/98/9/12/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED NEWS DAILY 
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 06:51:37 -0700 (PDT)
To: (STUFFED SUNDAY SEPTEMBER 13 1998)
Subject: COME & GET IT - HOTTEST ISSUE YET!
Message-ID: <19980913121914.16214.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


   IN TODAY'S ISSUE: 30 SUPER-HOT JPEG PHOTOS;
    5 MEGA HOT SEXY STORIES; BAG A BILLIONARE
    BABE; BEST OF EUREKA; WINE, (NAKED) WOMEN
           AND SONG; MAYOR McLAPDANCE;
      CROSS-DRESSING ALIEN ABDUCTORS; DEWEY
       DECIMAL DRACULA DATE; THE NUDE BOMB;
      HAPPY (HOOKER) MEDIUM; VIAGRA SUNRISE;
      BOOB AIR; RELIGIOUS EXPERIENCE; MUCH,
                  MUCH MORE!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/98/9/13/   <----

Welcome to  today's  issue of Stuffed. To read it you should
click on the URL above.  If it is not made clickable by your
email program  you will need to  use your mouse to highlight
the URL,  copy it and then paste it into your browser  (then
press Return).

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/98/9/13/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED NEWS DAILY 
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 02:00:10 -0700 (PDT)
To: (STUFFED MONDAY SEPTEMBER 14 1998)
Subject: HOTTEST ISSUE OF THE SUMMER TO KEEP YOU WARM IF FALL IS HEADING YOUR WAY!
Message-ID: <19980914071000.22081.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


IN TODAY'S ISSUE:

 30 NEW EXTRA HOT JPEGS!
 5 NEW SIZZLING STORIES
 LISTEN TO GET LAID
 BAYWATCH CONFESSIONAL
 DOING THE DRAG KING THING
 PREGO BY PLEASURE
 SEX DRUGS AND ARACHNIDS
 THE BARON OF BALLS
 THE BEST OF EUREKA
 NUCLEAR HARD-ON
 MILLION DOLLAR SHEIK SHAG
             

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/98/9/14/   <----

Welcome to  today's  issue of Stuffed. To read it you should
click on the URL above.  If it is not made clickable by your
email program  you will need to  use your mouse to highlight
the URL,  copy it and then paste it into your browser  (then
press Return).

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/98/9/14/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Deja News Members 
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 07:16:15 -0700 (PDT)
To: Deja News Members 
Subject: What's New at Deja News
Message-ID: <19980914081041.000172@mulder.emailpub.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


____________________________________________________________

WHAT'S NEW AT DEJA NEWS!                         09/14/1998
____________________________________________________________

Greetings from Deja News! This monthly newsletter is
exclusively for registered Deja News members. It's designed
to let you know about new products and services available
on the Deja News site, so that you can get the most from
your Deja News membership.

We'll be sending this newsletter to your mailbox once
per month as long as you want us to keep sending it.
(Unsubscribe instructions are at the bottom of this email
in the MANAGE YOUR SUBSCRIPTION section.)
____________________________________________________________

If a longer URL below appears broken, please manually cut 
and paste the link into your browser.

NEW THIS MONTH ON DEJA NEWS

NEW CHANNELS. Stunned by the wealth of 50,000+
discussion forums and wondering how to get to them?
Head for Deja News' home page and jump into our
new channels. We've organized thousands of the best
discussion forums into an easy-to-browse directory, so
you can find just what you're looking for in a few clicks.

Start exploring now at:
http://www.dejanews.com/%5Bst_cam=none.none.none.email0914chan%5D/
____________________________________________________________

MEMBER FORUMS. Can't find a discussion forum on your
favorite topic? Then make your own! Start a free discussion
forum on Deja News today for your small business, community
organization, family, or your favorite special interest. It takes
less than five minutes and it's free!

Create one now at:
http://www.dejanews.com/%5Bst_cam=none.none.none.email0914memf%5D/rg_mkgrp.xp
____________________________________________________________

LANGUAGE SEGMENTATION. Habla Espanol? We've segmented 
our discussions so you can easily find them in any of 18 languages.

Have it your way at: 
http://www.dejanews.com/%5Bst_cam=none.none.none.email0914lang%5D/home_ps.shtml
____________________________________________________________

AUTO SIGNATURE. Use My Deja News to keep up with your
favorite groups and post messages? We've added an auto
signature capability so you can automatically append a personal
trailer to each message you post.

Customize yours at: 
http://www.dejanews.com/%5Bst_cam=none.none.none.email0914sig%5D/rg_edit_post.xp
____________________________________________________________

MANAGE YOUR SUBSCRIPTION:
To subscribe to or unsubscribe from this newsletter, 
please visit:
http://www.dejanews.com/%5Bst_cam=none.none.none.email0914sub%5D/rg_edit_personal.xp
and update the Deja News Email option.  Note:  You must be 
logged in to change your status.

QUESTIONS?
Email us at newsletter@dejanews.com.

This newsletter is a free service of Deja News.
Copyright 1998 Deja News, Inc. All rights reserved.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Distributed by Email Publishing Inc. - http://www.emailpub.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Jack Oswald / CEO / RPK Security" 
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 04:31:09 -0700 (PDT)
To: RPK_Announcements@rpkusa.com
Subject: ANNOUNCEMENT: RPK InvisiMail NOW DISTRIBUTED THROUGH ONLINE RESELLERS
Message-ID: <199809141123.EAA22441@proxy3.ba.best.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


You have received this message because at some time in the past your name was submitted to our e-mail mailing list database.  If you do not wish (or no longer wish) to receive announcements, updates and news concerning the RPK Encryptonite Engine or the RPK InvisiMail e-mail security products, please forward this message to remove@rpkusa.com

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE


CONTACT
Paula Miller				Lyn Oswald
Nadel Phelan, Inc.			RPK Security, Inc.
408-439-5570 x277			212-488-9891
paulam@nadelphelan.com		lynoswald@rpkusa.com


RPK InvisiMail NOW DISTRIBUTED THROUGH ONLINE RESELLERS

Alexa Internet, Parsons Technology and Buyonet International Partner with InvisiMail International Ltd.

SAN FRANCISCO, CA. August 31, 1998 - InvisiMail International Ltd., a specialist in Internet commerce and communications systems, announced today the completion of joint marketing agreements with Alexa Internet, Parsons Technology Inc. and Buyonet International for the RPK InvisiMail e-mail security software product.

	RPK InvisiMail is a standards-based e-mail security add-in for POP3/SMTP Internet e-mail software and Internet gateway servers. RPK InvisiMail is completely transparent, allowing users to easily send and receive private e-mail messages securely over the Internet, without having to learn about cryptography.  RPK InvisiMail was developed using RPK Security Inc.'s core technology, the RPK Encryptonite Engine.

	Alexa, a free Web navigation service, Parsons Technology, a catalog marketer of high quality computing solutions, and Buyonet International, an online software reseller with sales in more than 110 countries, will market and resell RPK InvisiMail products to customers through multiple distribution channels. Alexa's core marketing efforts for InvisiMail include advertising InvisiMail through banner ads and e-mail announcements to Alexa's customers.

	"We are delighted to have established a mutually profitable marketing partnership with RPK Security in support of InvisiMail," said Darian Patchin, director of media and distribution for Alexa Internet. "This partnership brings many benefits and is complementary to our Web navigation tool. RPK InvisiMail offers customers a flexible, easy to use and configurable secure e-mail add-in."

 more
RPK InvisiMail PARTNERS WITH ONLINE RESELLERS	PG. 2 OF 2

	As part of the licensing deal with Parsons Technology, a Broderbund Company, InvisiMail will be branded to reflect the Parsons name.  Parsons(r) RPK InvisiMail will be offered through Parsons Technology direct to consumers, with marketing efforts focusing on catalog exposure, electronic mailings, Parsons' website and other on-line channels. 

	"Parsons Technology has always stood for high quality software at affordable prices.  InvisiMail is no exception.  We are excited to bring this level of protection and ease of use to our customers," said Brian Kristiansen of Parsons Technology.
Buyonet will distribute RPK InvisiMail Intro on the freeware/shareware portion of their online store and will sell RPK InvisiMail Deluxe online.  

	"This new agreement gives us an even larger assortment of e-mail tools," said Buyonet Chairman Tore Helgeson.

ABOUT InvisiMail INTERNATIONAL LTD.
InvisiMail International Ltd., founded in 1997, specializes in secure Internet commerce and communications solutions for a wide range of applications.  An adherence to open communication standards, using a distinctive Proxy Architecture, makes the InvisiMail International approach to security the most flexible available.  Developed using RPK Security, Inc.'s core technology, the RPK Encryptonite Engine, the InvisiMail range of products supports secure message-based applications including Client Services, E-Commerce, EDI and others that require absolute confidentiality and the highest security levels.  This allows the simplest e-mail systems to become the most powerful business and commerce tools.  Contact InvisiMail at www.InvisiMail.com or call +44 1624 611 003.

ABOUT RPK SECURITY
Founded in 1995, RPK Security, Inc. is a technology leader in fast public key cryptography.  Its flagship RPK Encryptonite Engine, a uniquely fast and strong public key encryption technology, is available worldwide in custom hardware and software toolkits on multiple platforms.  Developed from widely accepted security mathematics and techniques, the RPK Encryptonite Engine is easily embedded into new and existing hardware and software applications.  RPK's cryptographic research and product development is based in New Zealand, Switzerland and the U.K, with worldwide sales and marketing operations in San Francisco, CA.  Visit RPK's website at www.rpkusa.com or call (212) 488-9891.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: CTIA Daily News 
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 02:37:10 -0700 (PDT)
To: CTIA Daily News 
Subject: CTIA Daily News from WOW-COM - September 14, 1998
Message-ID: <199809150937.CAA04662@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary..3996.1071713804.multipart/mixed"

--Boundary..3996.1071713804.multipart/mixed
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit



==========================================
Welcome to today's edition of the CTIA Daily News
from WOW-COM.  Please click on the icon / attachment
for the most important news in wireless communications today.

Your company just formed a partnership in a country you
never heard of.  Are you worried about international roaming
fraud?  You should be.  

CTIA's Wireless Security '98 - It's Just Smart Business.
Orlando, Florida · November 9 - 11, 1998 
http://www.wow-com.com/professional  

Team WOW-COM
wowcom@ctia.org
===========================================
 

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: CTIA Daily News 
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 14:55:39 -0700 (PDT)
To: CTIA Daily News 
Subject: CTIA Daily News from WOW-COM - September 14, 1998
Message-ID: <199809142145.QAA20445@mailstrom.revnet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary..3996.1071713805.multipart/mixed"

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==========================================
Welcome to today's edition of the CTIA Daily News
from WOW-COM.  Please click on the icon / attachment
for the most important news in wireless communications today.

Your company just formed a partnership in a country you
never heard of.  Are you worried about international roaming
fraud?  You should be. 

CTIA's Wireless Security '98 - It's Just Smart Business.
Orlando, Florida · November 9 - 11, 1998 
http://www.wow-com.com/professional 

Team WOW-COM
wowcom@ctia.org
===========================================
 




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 123456@usa.net
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 00:03:20 -0700 (PDT)
To: 123458@qqeioweisssiiie.com
Subject: CABLE TV........FREE PREMIUM CHANNELS!!!
Message-ID: <199234233019.GAA08423@qqeioweisssiiie.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


THIS IS REALLY COOL!!!                   

              
            PREMIUM CHANNELS........No Monthly Bill!              

                                         


EASY to assemble plans for only $7.00 !
We will send your plans as soon as we receive payment for your order!


YOU WILL BE WATCHING PAY-PER-VIEW, HBO, SHOWTIME, 
THE MOVIE CHANNEL, Adult stations,
and any other scrambled signal   NEXT WEEK!

You can EASILY assemble a cable descrambler in less than 30 minutes!
You have probably seen many advertisments for similar plans....

 
** BUT OURS are BETTER! *** 

We have compared it to all the others and have actually
IMPROVED the quality and SIMPLIFIED the design !!!


**  We even include PHOTOS! **


OUR PLANS ARE BETTER! 
We have NEW, EASY TO READ,EASY to assemble plans for only $7.00! 
We have seen them advertised for as much as $29.00 and you have 
to wait weeks to receive them!       


WHAT THE OTHERS SAY IS TRUE!

Parts are available at  "The TV HUT"  or any electronics store.  
Trademark rights do not allow us to use a national electronics 
retail chains' name but there is one in your town!


Call and ask them BEFORE you order! 
They are very familiar with these plans and 
will tell you that it.......

       DOES INDEED WORK!    ASK THEM! 


You will need these easy to obtain parts :

 270-235                        mini box
 271-1325                      2.2k ohm resistor 
 278-212                        chasis connectors
 RG59 coaxial cable,
 #12 copper wire, 
 and a variable capacitor.


    

    All you need now is the EASY TO ASSEMBLE plans to
   show you how to assemble this money saving device in 30 MINUTES! 
 
 
 It is LEGAL, providing of course you use these
 plans for educational purposes only.

 IT'S FUN!  


We're sure you'll enjoy this!  Our FAMILIES sure do!                           
               * you need one descrambler for each TV.


                   NO MORE MONTHLY BILLS!           

           $  7.00     for plans only                        
            
             
              


Pay by check or money order payable to:           

 C Vogl           
 RR1 BOX 45           
 EFFORT, PA                               
 18330

Please provide a self addressed stamped envelope (.64)          

So we can RUSH your order to you!




This ad is being sent in compliance with Senate bill 1618, Title 3, section 301. http://www.senate.gov/~murkowski/commercialemail/S771index.html

Further transmissions to you by the sender of this email may be stopped at no cost to you by sending a reply to this email address with the word "remove" in the subject line.








































   If this E-mail offends anyone, we apologize ......and feel free to use the DEL key.










 "By deleting your unwanted EMail you waste one key stroke, yet by 
throwing away paper mail you waste a planet! SAVE OUR TREES and
 support internet EMail instead of traditional mail"! 
^^
:)







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: jmessenger@30337.com
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 14:07:43 -0700 (PDT)
To: j.messenger@mailcity.com
Subject: First Century Church
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Hello.

Jim and I received your name from a list given to us by a friend who
indicated that you may be interested in a unique Christian site in
Jerusalem (the Holy Land):  

http://jcr.org

The Jerusalem Christian Review is Jerusalem's leading Christian
newspaper, and reports discoveries in the Holy Land which have direct
implications on our understanding of the Bible.  

Their reports are well documented with pictures and the participation of
world-famous Bible scholars in Jerusalem.  Some of these discoveries
include:

- A First Century Jerusalem Tomb with an inscribed dedication to "Jesus,
who Ascended", dating to before the New Testament was written!

- A First Century Amulet found in the Holy Land which seem to depict
come of the Miracles of Jesus!

-- The recently found Palace of King David, including an exclusive
interview with the Hebrew University archaeologist who discovered it.

- A burial cave in Nazareth with the personal testimonials of the very
first Christians of Galilee.  

- Answers to the Mystery of Calvary. Scholars Find Stunning Evidence of
Jesus' Crucifixion at Golgotha!


Although we are not personally connected to this ministry, we were so
impressed with the impact of the information at this site that we felt
it was our duty to help spread the word.  It has helped us so much in
our own walk with the Lord and with evangelism!

We ask you to forward copies of this letter to all of your friends, so
that they can be informed of the dynamic way God is reaching back
through history and revealing Himself so dramatically to the world
today!

Take a look for yourself.  Again, the WWW address in Jerusalem is: 

  http://jcr.org

Yours in His service,

Jim and Barbara Randolph


P.  S.: We are attaching here part of a statement of mission taken from
the web site of the Jerusalem Christian Review, which is exciting!!  




--------------------------------------------------------------
Special Request:  PLEASE HELP SHARE THIS IMPORTANT EVIDENCE BY 
COPYING THIS MESSAGE AND SENDING IT TO YOUR FAMILY AND FRIENDS.  
THANK YOU.
_______________________________
***********************************************





>From the Editor:
>From the Past to the Present...
The Jerusalem Christian Review , a newspaper with a mission.

The very first Christians in the world were those who witnessed first
hand the Ministry, Words and deeds of Jesus of Nazareth.

They had a very unique opportunity - the opportunity to personally ask
Him questions, interact with Him and see for themselves the culmination
of His life on earth.

While these first witnesses can no longer testify to the events of the
past, their inscribed testimonials, some of which were buried for
two-thousand years, are only today being discovered and deciphered in
the Holy Land.

In recent years, unprecedented archaeological study and biblical
research has literally brought to life the very pages of the Bible.
Scholars in the Holy Land have unearthed startling discoveries which
reveal, in more clarity than ever in history, the world of the very
first followers of Jesus.

Today, one can physically walk in the footsteps of His disciples and
first apostles, sit in the very places where they were judged, witness
the spectacular nature of the cities they lived in and read the
inscriptions they left behind.

A cave found years ago by the renown French archaeologist, Charles
Clarmont-Ganneau, near ancient Bethany, exposed a first century tomb
which included three ossuaries (stone coffins) inscribed with the symbol
of the cross and the Hebrew names of Lazarus, Martha and Mary (John
11:1,2). 

In a nearby tomb, a monogrammed dedication written only a few years
after Jesus' crucifixion, also accompanied by a cross mark, was
deciphered by Prof. J. Finegan of the Pacific School of Religion,
Berkeley, to read: "Jesus Christ, the Redeemer."  

At the southern edge of the Kidron Valley, the "Valley of Judgement" in
Jerusalem, the Hebrew University archaeologist, Prof. Eleazar L.
Sukenik, discovered a first century ossuary with cross marks and a
testimonial reading: "[To] Jesus, the Lord." (For more information,
please see the Jerusalem Christian Review, Internet Edition, at
http://jcr.org.

Indeed, one cannot escape the inevitable conclusion that God is, today,
using the Holy Land and the accelerated study of archaeology to
substantiate the biblical narrative and to present a very modern message
to today's world.

The Jerusalem Christian Review,  Jerusalem's leading Christian
newspaper, invites you to join with us in prayer that, through the
information contained in these pages, many might come to the realization
that the Lord's Word is true.  

We invite you to take this opportunity to use the evidence being
presented in this edition, and in future editions, to be good stewards
of this message from the Holy Land - to tell your family and friends of
these testimonials, which carry from the past a very modern message to
the present and for the future. 


***********************************************




You can access the Jerusalem Christian Review in Jerusalem at: 

http://jcr.org


We ask you to help share the Word by passing this email message to your
family and friends.  Thank you.


















This email message has bee sent by S.P.Fox at the request of the
Randolfs who wish to say thanks to friends and loved ones without whose
advise and expertise, this mailing  would not be possible. I can be
reached c/o  230 West Hall Avenue,  PO Box 202
 Slidell, LA 70460

This is a first time and one time mailing from me, but if you wish, you
can be removed from my mailing list by sending an email with the word
Remove in the subject to:

no_no_thank@mailexcite.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED NEWS DAILY 
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 02:05:46 -0700 (PDT)
To: (STUFFED TUESDAY SEPTEMBER 15 1998)
Subject: READ THE FULL EXPLICIT CONTENTS OF THE STARR REPORT TODAY/PLUS CLINTON'S REBUTTAL!
Message-ID: <19980915071000.5544.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


IN TODAY'S ISSUE:

 30 NEW EXTRA HOT JPEGS!
 5 NEW SIZZLING STORIES
 HOW TO PEEL A PORN STAR'S PANTIES
 THE STAR REPORT IN FULL
 VIRGIN PENIS POLISHING
 BEER BASHING BOOBS
 STUFFED SPINS MTV'S 98 VID AWARDS
 ORGASMATRON
 THE BEST OF EUREKA
 CAMP CLINTON
 FERTILITY FINGERS FINGERED
 CLOSING THE DEAL
 THE ART OF LUST
             

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/98/9/15/   <----

Welcome to  today's  issue of Stuffed. To read it you should
click on the URL above.  If it is not made clickable by your
email program  you will need to  use your mouse to highlight
the URL,  copy it and then paste it into your browser  (then
press Return).

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/98/9/15/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: CTIA Daily News 
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 11:34:29 -0700 (PDT)
To: CTIA Daily News 
Subject: CTIA Daily News from WOW-COM - September 15, 1998
Message-ID: <199809151820.NAA05679@mailstrom.revnet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary..3996.1071713805.multipart/mixed"

--Boundary..3996.1071713805.multipart/mixed
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit




==========================================
Welcome to today's edition of the CTIA Daily News
from WOW-COM.  Please click on the icon / attachment
for the most important news in wireless communications today.

The Newest Most Comprehensive Tradeshow of Wireless 
Computing and Communications is Only a Month Away. 
Register TODAY!
http://www.wirelessit.com/register.htm

Team WOW-COM
wowcom@ctia.org
===========================================
 





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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Scott Balson" 
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 01:22:28 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: Globalisation: Demise of the Australian nation
Message-ID: <001301bde082$20436560$f81c64cb@QU.fox.uq.net.ai>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





New book: 'GLOBALISATION: DEMISE OF THE AUSTRALIAN NATION'. 
 
This is Graham Strachan's follow-up to his controversial sellout success, 
'Economic Rationalism: a Disaster for Australia'. (See articles at: http://www.gwb.com.au/gwb/news/economic)
 
We recommend it to those who are concerned about where Australia will be, 
and has been going under the Laboral factions (Labor and Coalition parties) for 
the last 20 PLUS years.
 
Globalisation is no longer a conspiracy theory: it is official Government 
(and Opposition) policy! The only secret now is just what 'globalisation' 
means.According to the power elites it involves 'trade liberalisation' 
and that's it. In fact it goes far beyond that, and includes political and 
social globalisation as well. This book explains how it is all being engineered 
behind a screen of lies and half truths by dishonest politicians, corrupt media, 
and treacherous elites in business, government bureaucracies, academia and the 
churches, with the aid of false economic and social theories. While it 
concentrates on economic deceit, this book goes on to uncover the complete 
globalisation programme. The real nature of Globalism might surprise 
you!At $15 plus $2.50 postage (with discounts on both book and postage 
for larger orders) every Australian must read this book. Ordering details at 
Graham's website: http://www.overflow.net.au/~bizbrief.
 
GWB
 
 
Scott Balson
Pauline Hanson's One Nation 
webmaster


From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: jeff206@juno.com
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 00:44:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Titanic
Message-ID: <199809160744.AAA18755@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Dear Titanic Enthusiast:
 
    Sometime over the last few months you had visited our Titanic 
site entitled "Enter The Titanic". Also, you signed our Guest 
Book, expressed an interest in purchasing Titanic merchandise and 
left us your email address. I hope you don't mind receiving this 
message. If you do not wish to receive these messages regarding 
Titanic or Titanic merchandise in the future, simply respond to 
this email with "NO MORE" written in the subject window. 

    For those of you interested, the cost of two of our most 
popular items have been reduced by our suppliers due to large 
volumes sold from our site.  Authentic reproduction buttons and 
the Titanic CD ROM. 

 1). Authentic Reproductions - The Waterbury Button Company 
produced the solid brass buttons which adorned the coats of both 
the officers and crew of the R.M.S. Titanic. They also reproduced 
the buttons to be used in the James Camron movie "TITANIC". They 
have once more produced these buttons for public collection. These 
buttons are pressed from the same molds used in 1912, solid brass 
and coated in 24K gold. At only $29.95 plus shipping and handling 
they make a great gift or collection piece. CLICK HERE for a 
detailed description or visit 
http://www.geocities.com/baja/8334/reproductions.htm 
  

 2). "TITANIC: A Voyage of Discovery" CD ROM - This CD ROM disk is 
loaded with the most information compiled on Titanic than any 
other source available. It's filled with photos, music, video, 
artifacts and stories taken from the actual account of survivors. 
It's a must have for any Titanic enthusiast. This fact filled CD 
ROM has been reduced for a short time to only $45.95 plus shipping 
and handling. CLICK HERE for more details or visit 
http://www.unidial.com/~bflowers/home.htm 

    I hope you will visit these sites and add these great items to 
your Titanic collection. We pride ourselves in offering only the 
highest quality, authentic Titanic merchandise. Other products we 
offer are listed at our Titanic Merchandise page located at 
http://www.unidial.com/~bflowers/merchandise.htm 

Remember Titanic and those who lost their lives aboard her. May 
They Rest In Peace !
  

Bob Flowers, Jr. 
Webmaster 
Enter The Titanic 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED NEWS DAILY 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 02:16:11 -0700 (PDT)
To: (STUFFED WEDNESDAY SEPTEMBER 16 1998)
Subject:       ---->   http://stuffed.net/98/9/16/   <----
Message-ID: <19980916071000.15351.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Welcome to  today's  issue of Stuffed. To read it you should
click on the URL above.  If it is not made clickable by your
email program  you will need to  use your mouse to highlight
the URL,  copy it and then paste it into your browser  (then
press Return).

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/98/9/16/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: culasd@usa.net
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 01:32:54 -0700 (PDT)
To: culasd@usa.net
Subject: Stock is up 275%!!
Message-ID: <199809160832.KAA23272@mail.myway.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



The stock is up 275% in less than 40 days. 


 

 

This Thursday, September 3, 1998

Omicron closed at $6.87


During this same time period the DOW has gone down over 1,700 points!


Don't Miss This One!


For more information: http://www.americanstockchannel.com/omicron


The stock symbol is: OGPS


_______________________


 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: CTIA Daily News 
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 13:02:01 -0700 (PDT)
To: CTIA Daily News 
Subject: CTIA Daily News from WOW-COM - September 16, 1998
Message-ID: <199809161951.OAA26204@mailstrom.revnet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary..3996.1071713805.multipart/mixed"

--Boundary..3996.1071713805.multipart/mixed
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit




==========================================
Welcome to today's edition of the CTIA Daily News
from WOW-COM.  Please click on the icon / attachment
for the most important news in wireless communications today.

The Newest Most Comprehensive Tradeshow of Wireless 
Computing and Communications is Only a Month Away. 
Register TODAY!
http://www.wirelessit.com/register.htm 

Team WOW-COM
wowcom@ctia.org
===========================================
 





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--Boundary..3996.1071713805.multipart/mixed--



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: vinnie@vmeng.com
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 16:00:10 -0700 (PDT)
To: undisclosed-recipients:;
Subject: Announcement: Mac-Crypto Conference Oct 6-9, 1998
Message-ID: <199809162247.PAA49860@scv1.apple.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1



 
 
         The Membership of the Mac-Crypto List invites you to

                      The Third Annual 
                          Macintosh
                Cryptography and Internet Commerce
                 Software Development Workshop
 
                         
                      October 6 - 9th, 1998
                      Town Hall Auditorium
                        Apple R&D Campus
                4 Infinite Loop, Cupertino, CA, USA
                
            Keeping with tradition, this is still free workshop, 
            but we'd *really* like it if you register (see below).
  
We are once again hosting our annual workshop,  where you are sure to 
find the latest and greatest information about whats going on in the 
Macintosh cryptography world. 

A lot has happened in the past year in the world of the Internet 
and Cryptography, so this year, thanks to popular demand we have 
allocated more time and a larger hall for developers to talk about
what they are working on. 

 
PRELIMINARY WORKSHOP TOPICS: (more to come)

  Introductions and Overviews:

    Intro to Crypto Systems 
 
    Export Controls & Crypto software 
    
    Crypto Opportunities for the Mac
    
   Tech Stuff:

     AppleShare Authentication Architecture 
    
     PGPticket - A Secure Authorization Protocol 
    
     The AltaVec PowerPC Architecture
    
     Apple Security Architecture Overview.
    
     Apple Keychain / Subwoofer update
    
     OpenPGP & the IETF standards process 
     
     Overview of Crypto API's and Toolkits
     
 
  Applications of Cryptography

     RC5 cracking effort & the Mac 
    
     PGPUAM - Appleshare Public Key Authentication 
       
     Graphically displaying the Web of Trust 
     
     Anonymous Communications and the Macintosh 
     
     
  Open Sessions:

    As requested we scheduled lots of time for developer demos and
open
    discussions plus the much asked for and a PGP Keysigning party ...
    and plenty of time for developers to network with each other and 
    Apple.

We have also left time open for a few last-minute speakers. If you
would like to present a paper or give a talk, please contact
Vinnie Moscaritolo at vinnie@apple.com 
 
To find out more about previous Mac-Crypto workshops check out 
our webpage at  http://www.vmeng.com/mc/ 

REGISTRATION:

 To register, complete the following form, and email it to 
 mac-crypto-conference@vmeng.com with the subject line REGISTRATION
 
 Registration is limited to 300 attendees, so be sure to register 
 early. 
 
_______________________________________________________________________

* Name:                               

* Email Address:

Title:

Affliation:
 
Address: 

Telephone:

Comments:
 
_______________________________________________________________________


Local Hotels:

Cupertino Inn, 800-222-4828
        Pretty much Across the Street.

Cupertino Courtyard by Marriot, 800-321-2211
        5 Minute Drive

Inn at Saratoga
        408-867-5020
        About 3 Miles

See you in Cupertino on October 6 - 9th!

Vinnie Moscaritolo
Apple World Wide Developer Support
 DSS/DH:   3F903472C3AF622D5D918D9BD8B100090B3EF042

 
 
 

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP 6.0

iQA/AwUBNgA9BR16LYZvFyoKEQKYAACfXK7uA40tX1DRy44zTaqkesDs5TkAoKS3
Fx/5lcgO9b6Wqfsibdpc1MRz
=c+ZP
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 09644775KG@fiberia.com
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 18:04:21 -0700 (PDT)
To: 48472X27@aol.com
Subject: PLEASE CONSIDER THIS TERRIFIC HOME BUSINESS !
Message-ID: <987883301KV4499.cyclone.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



HOME BASED BUSINESS

THE NEW FRONTIER !


SOMEONE STARTS A NEW HOME BASED BUSINESS EVERY 11 SECONDS RESULTING IN 8,000 NEW HOME BASED BUSINESSES DAILY ! ! THE GROWTH OF THIS INDUSTRY IS NOTHING SHORT OF A SILENT REVOLUTION, SOON TO REACH $500 BILLION ANNUAL REVENUES.

44% OF ALL HOUSEHOLDS WILL SUPPORT SOME SORT OF HOME BASED BUSINESS BY THE YEAR 2000. THE AVEREAGE HOME BASED BUSINESS EARNS $50,250 PER YEAR - - NEARLY DOUBLE THE NATIONAL AVERAGE OF THOSE WORKING FOR SOMEONE ELSE ! !

LET ME TELL YOU A LITTLE ABOUT OUR GREAT OPPORTUNITY IN THE HOME BASED BUSINESS FIELD. OUR PEOPLE TYPICALLY WORK FROM 2 TO 4 HOURS DAILY WITH 23% ELECTING TO DO IT FULL TIME.

1. THEY DO NO SELLING
2. THEY MAKE NO PHONE CALLS
3. THEY DO NOT CARRY INVENTORY
4. THEY MAKE NO PRESENTATIONS
5. THEY DO NO RUNNING AROUND

OUR COMPANY EMPLOYS PROFESSIONAL ONLINE RECRUITERS AND USES NEWSPAPER AND RADIO ADS TO HELP YOU PROMOTE YOUR BUSINESS. WE HELP YOU GET YOUR BUSINESS STARTED AND IT COSTS YOU NOTHING - - ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS JOIN AND BECOME AN ACTIVE MEMBER OF OUR #1 TEAM.

WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO LOSE? CLICK BELOW AND WE WILL TAKE YOU ON A TOUR OF OUR COMPANY. WE WILL INTRODUCE YOU TO OUR PRODUCTS, SHOW YOU HOW WE OPERATE OUR BUSINESS, LET YOU CALCULATE YOUR EARNINGS POTENTIAL BASED ON YOUR EXPECTED LEVEL OF PARTICIPATION AND SHOW YOU HOW TO ENROLL !

[ Click Here > > > for YOUR Tour and Opportunity.... ]



Responsible Emailing 100% No Hassle Connection



If you would not like to receive any future mail concerning money making opportunities, please click on the link below and type in the word "Remove" in the subject line of your email. You will be removed from our data base. Sorry for any inconvenience we may have caused you..
[ Type "REMOVE" in the subject line of your email ]













From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: playandwin@casino.com
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 17:34:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: FREE CASINO DOLLARS!!!
Message-ID: <199809170006.UAA25323@mail.scanlanhs.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


The time has come to enjoy casino games from the comfort of your home. Find
out where to play ALL of your favorite casino games online securely.
Blackjack! Craps! Slot Machines! Roulette! Baccarat! & Much, Much More! The
Best Odds! Huge Pay-Outs! Top-Rated Customer Service, GUARANTEED! 

For more information, reply below IMMEDIATELY and you will be GUARANTEED TO
RECEIVE between $25 and $10,000 INSTANTLY! You need to reply today for more
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onlinefun@bigfoot.com and type "Show Me The Money" in the Subject.

It's simple! All you have to do is reply to this e-mail and you will be
GUARANTEED TO RECEIVE between $25 and $10,000. Just CLICK HERE
onlinefun@bigfoot.com and put "Show Me The Money" in the Subject of the
e-mail message. Remember, you will be GUARANTEED TO RECEIVE between $25
and $10,000!  DON'T DELAY. REPLY NOW! 

Should you choose to be removed from this list and future mailings,
reply to this e-mail with "REMOVE" in the Subject of the message. 

To learn more about e-mail advertising please call (416)410-2938






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bset4life@bigfoot.com
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1998 09:55:56 -0700 (PDT)
To: bset4life@bigfoot.com
Subject: BEST THING GOING
Message-ID: <199809161642.BAA10040@nlpeng.sogang.ac.kr>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




THIS IS NOT SPAM! You are on our mailing list because you have subscribed at one of our associate web sites,sent us email or we have a previous online relationship.
To be removed from future mailings mailto:database9898@hotmail.com 
 
                                 This is it folks.

             This is the letter you've been reading about in the news lately
 
   Due to the popularity of this letter on the Internet, a major nightly news program recently devoted an entire show to the investigation of the program described below , to see if it really can make people money.  If you saw it, you know that their conclusion was ,that while most people did not make the $55,000, as discussed in the plan, EVERYONE who followed the instructions was able to make 100 to 160 times their money at the VERY LEAST . The show also investigated whether or not the program was legal.  Their findings proved once and for all that there are absolutely no laws prohibiting the participation in the program.

This is one of the most exciting opportunities with the MOST income potential on the internet today!" --48 Hours..
Hi, my name is Fred. After I saw this letter aired on the news program,I decided to get some of my skeptical questions answered.
Does it really work? Until I try it, I can only go on the testimony of people I don't know,so I will only know if I try it. I've never done this type of thing, but I decided
it was time to try something. If I keep doing what I am doing I'll keep getting what I've got.  Besides, people 70 years old have been surveyed and they will consistently say
that the 2 regrets they have of there lives are;
they wish they had spent more time with their families and
 
they wish they had taken more chances.

Upon hearing this again,and hearing what the MEDIA said about it, I decided that at 34, I was going to take a small chance and see what would come of it.
Is it legal? - Yes, (Refer to title 18, Section 1302 & 1342 of the U.S. Postal and Lottery Laws)
 
This opportunity isn't much of a risk and could turn out to actually be a bit of fun.

Bottom Line;

The risk is only $20 and time on the Internet.

The following is a copy of the letter that the media was referring to:
 
MONEY-MAKING PHENOMENON.
 
PRINT this letter, READ the directions, THEN READ IT AGAIN !!!

You are about to embark on the most profitable and unique program you may ever see.  Many times over, it has demonstrated and proven its ability to generate large amounts of   This program is showing fantastic appeal with a huge and ever-growing on-line population desirous of additional income.

This is a legitimate, LEGAL, money-making opportunity.  It does not require you 
to come in personal contact with people, do any hard work, and best of all,    you never have to leave the house, except to get the mail and go to the bank!
 
This truly is that lucky break you've been waiting for!  Simply follow the easy instructions in this letter, and your financial dreams can come true!  When followed correctly, this electronic, multi-level marketing program WORKS!


Thousands of people have used this program to:        
 
      -  Raise capital to start their own business
 
      -  Pay off debts

      -  Buy homes, cars, etc.,

      -  Even retire!

This is your chance, Don't pass it up!
 
 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OVERVIEW OF THIS EXTRAORDINARY
 
ELECTRONIC MULTI-LEVEL MARKETING PROGRAM

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Basically, this is what we do:

We send thousands of people a product that they paid us $5.00 US for, that costs next to nothing to produce and e-mail back to them. As with all multi-level businesses, we build our business by recruiting new partners and selling our products.  Every state in the U.S. allows you to recruit new multi- level business online 
(via your computer).
 
The products in this program are a series of four business and financial reports costing $5.00 each.  Each order you receive is to include:



  $5.00 cash United States Currency
 
 * The name and number of the report they are ordering

 * The e-mail address where you will e-mail them the report they ordered.


 
To fill each order, you simply e-mail the product to the buyer. 
THAT'S IT!  The $5.00 is yours! 
This is the electronic multi-level marketing business anywhere!
 
FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS TO THE LETTER AND

BE PREPARED TO REAP THE STAGGERING BENEFITS!

I  N  S  T  R  U  C  T  I  O  N  S 
This is what you MUST do:

1. Order all 4 reports shown on the list below (you can't sell them if you don't order them).

     *  For each report, send $5.00 CASH, the NAME & NUMBER OF THE

       REPORT YOU ARE ORDERING, YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS, and YOUR

      RETURN POSTAL ADDRESS (in case of a problem) to the person whose

         name appears on the list next to the report.
 
     *  When you place your order, make sure you order each of the four
 
         reports.  You will need all four reports so that you can save them

         on your computer and resell them.

     *  Within a few days you are to receive, via e-mail, each of the four reports.

         Save them on your computer so they will be accessible for you to send

          to the 1,000's of people who will order them from you.
 

 
2. IMPORTANT-- DO NOT alter the names of the people who are listed next  to

each report, or their sequence on the list, in any way other than is  instructed
 
below in steps "a" through "d" or you will lose out on the majority of your profits.    

Once you  understand the way this works, you'll also see how it doesn't work if you change it. 

Remember, this method  has been tested,
 
and if you alter it, it will not work.
 
a.  Look below for the listing of available reports.


b. After you've ordered the four reports, replace the name and address under
 
REPORT #1 with your name and address, moving the one that was there

down to REPORT #2.

c.Move the name and address that was under REPORT #2 down to .
 
REPORT #3


d. Move the name and address that was under REPORT #3 down to

REPORT#4
 
e.  The name and address that was under REPORT #4 is removed from
 
the list and has NO DOUBT collected large sums of cash!
 
Please make sure you copy everyone's name and address ACCURATELY!!!
 
 
3.  Take this entire letter, including the modified list of names, and save  it to

your computer.  Make NO changes to the instruction portion of this  letter.
 
4.  Now you're ready to start an advertising campaign on the
 
WORLDWIDE WEB!  Advertising on the WEB can be very, very inexpensive,

and there are HUNDREDS of FREE places to advertise. Another avenue which

you could use for advertising is e-mail lists. You can buy these lists for under

$20/2,000 addresses or you can pay someone to take care of it for you.
 
BE SURE TO START YOUR AD CAMPAIGN IMMEDIATELY!
 
5.  For every $5.00 you receive, all you must do is e-mail them the report

they ordered.  THAT'S IT!  ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON ALL

ORDERS! This will help guarantee that the e-mail THEY send out, with YOUR

name and address on it, will be prompt because they can't  advertise until

they receive the report!  To grow fast be prompt and courteous.

--------------------------------------   
 
AVAILABLE REPORTS
 
---------------------------------------

Order Each REPORT by NUMBER and NAME

Notes:
 
 -  ALWAYS SEND $5 CASH FOR EACH REPORT
 
 -  ALWAYS SEND YOUR ORDER VIA THE QUICKEST DELIVERY
 
 -  Make sure the cash is concealed by wrapping it in at least two sheets of paper

 -  On one of those sheets of paper, include: (a) the number & name of the report you are ordering, (b) your     
    e-mail address, and (c) your postal address.
 
_________________________________________________________________
 
REPORT #1 "HOW TO MAKE $250,000 THROUGH MULTI-LEVEL SALES" 
 
ORDER REPORT #1 FROM:
 
Pete Chiros
PO Box 1262
Bakersfield,  Ca   93302
_________________________________________________________________
REPORT #2 "MAJOR CORPORATIONS AND MULTI-LEVEL SALES"

ORDER REPORT #2 FROM:
 
JR Reevs
PO Box    78152
Greenfield, Ca   93383-8152
______________________________________________________________
REPORT #3 "SOURCES FOR THE BEST MAILING LISTS"

ORDER REPORT #3 FROM:
 
Claude Taylor
2323 Morro Road.
Fallbrook Ca.  92028
 
_______________________________________________________________
REPORT #4 "EVALUATING MULTI-LEVEL SALES PLANS"

ORDER REPORT #4 FROM:

B.S.G.
PO Box 9864
Bakersfield, Ca.  93389
 
________________________________________________________________
 

HERE'S HOW THIS AMAZING PLAN WILL MAKE YOU $MONEY$

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Let's say you decide to start small just to see how well it works. Assume your goal is to get 10 people to participate on your first level.  (Placing a lot of FREE ads on the internet will EASILY get a larger response.)  Also assume that everyone else in YOUR ORGANIZATION gets ONLY 10 downline members.  Follow this example to achieve the STAGGERING results below.

1st level--your 10 members with $5...........................................$50
 
2nd level--10 members from those 10 ($5 x 100)..................$500

3rd level--10 members from those 100 ($5 x 1,000)..........$5,000
 
4th level--10 members from those 1,000 ($5 x 10,000)...$50,000
 
                                                THIS TOTALS        ----------->$55,550 

 Remember friends, this assumes that the people who participate only recruit 10 people each.  Think for a  moment what would happen if they got 20 people to participate!  Lots of people get 100s of participants!

 THINK ABOUT IT!

 Your cost to participate in this is practically nothing (surely you can afford $20).  You obviously already have an internet connection and e-mail is FREE!!!  shows you the most productive methods for bulk e-mailing and purchasing e-mail lists.  Some list & bulk e-mail vendors even work on trade!

About 50,000 new people get online every month

 
 
TIPS FOR SUCCESS
 
*  TREAT THIS AS YOUR BUSINESS!  Be prompt, professional, and follow the directions accurately.

*  Send for the four reports IMMEDIATELY so you will have them when

the orders start coming in because:
 
When you receive a $5 order, you MUST send out the requested   product/report to comply

  with the U.S. Postal & Lottery Laws, Title  18,Sections 1302 and 1341 or Title 18,  Section 3005
 
 in the U.S. Code   also Code of Federal Regs. vol. 16, Sections 255 and 436, which state
 
 that "a product or service must be exchanged for money received."


 
*ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON THE ORDERS YOU RECEIVE.        

 

*Be patient and persistent with this program. If you follow the

instructions exactly, the results WILL undoubtedly be SUCCESSFUL!


*  ABOVE ALL, HAVE FAITH IN YOURSELF AND KNOW YOU WILL SUCCEED!
 
 
YOUR SUCCESS GUIDELINE

Follow these guidelines to help assure your success:
 
 If you don't receive 10 to 20 orders for REPORT #1 within two weeks, continue advertising until you do.  Then, a couple of weeks later you should receive at least 50 orders for REPORT #2.  If you don't, continue advertising until you do.  Once you have received 50 or more orders for REPORT #2, YOU CAN RELAX, because the system is already working for you, and the cash can continue to roll in!
 
 
THIS IS IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER:
 

 Every time your name is moved down on the list, you are placed in front of a DIFFERENT report.  You can KEEP TRACK of your PROGRESS by watching which report people are ordering from you.  If you want to generate more income, send another batch of e-mails and start the whole process again!  There is no limit to the income you will generate from this business!

NOTE:  If you need help with starting a business, registering a business name,  how income tax is handled, etc., contact your local office of the Small Business Administration (a Federal agency) for free help and answers to questions.  Also, the Internal Revenue Service offers free help via telephone and free seminars about business taxes.   If you have any question of the legality of this letter contact the Office of Associate Director for Marketing Pratices Federal Trade Commission Bureau of Consumer Protection in Washington DC.

 
T  E  S  T  I  M  O  N  I  A  L  S

      This program does work, but you must follow it EXACTLY!  Especially the rule of not trying to place your name in a different position, it won't work and you'll lose a lot of potential income.  I'm living proof that it works.  It really is a great opportunity to make relatively easy money, with little cost to you.  If you do choose to participate, follow the program exactly, and you'll be on your way to financial security.

Sean McLaughlin, Jackson, MS
 
 

     The main reason for this letter is to convince you that this system is honest, lawful, extremely profitable, and is a way to get a large amount of money in a short time.  I was approached several times before I checked this out.  I joined just to see what one could expect in return for the minimal effort and money required.  To my astonishment, I received $36,470.00 in the first 19 weeks, with money still coming in.

            Sincerely yours, Phillip A. Brown, Esq.
 
 

     I had received this program before. I deleted it, but later I wondered if I shouldn't have given it a try. Of course, I had no idea who to contact to get another copy, so I had to wait until I was e-mailed another program...11 months passed then it came...I didn'tdelete this one!...I made more than $41,000 on the first try!!

           D. Wilburn, Muncie, IN
 


      This is my third time to participate in this plan. We have quit our jobs, and will soon buy a home on the beach and live off the interest on our money.  The only way on earth that this plan will work for you is if you do it. For your sake, and for your family's sake don't pass up this golden opportunity.  Good luck and happy spending!
 
            Charles Fairchild, Spokane, WA
 
I am nearing the $90,000 mark from this program.I have used several forms of

  advertisement.I used regular mail and bulk e-mail.  The regular mail that I used
  
  was very expensive for two reasons. I purchased a very select list of names
 
  and the postage. The third time I sent e-mails out,I did so in the quantity of
 
  1 million. So, after 3 times participating in this program I am almost at the
 
  $90,000 mark. That isn't too bad. I hope the same success for you. .
 
  Good Luck.
 
     Raymond McCormick, New Cannan, Ct. 
 
You have great potential for extra earnings that is available at your finger-tips!  

You have unlimited access to wealth, but you must be willing to take that first step!   

The Media ALREADY PROVED That !!!!
                      
You could be making an obscene amount of money!

 I have given you the information, materials, and opportunity to become
 
 financially better off. IT IS UP TO YOU NOW!- THINK ABOUT IT - Your risk is

 only $20.? HOW MUCH DO YOU SPEND ON LOTTO TICKETS- for NO RETURN?
 
 ORDER YOUR REPORTS TODAY AND GET

 STARTED ON YOUR ROAD TO
 
 FINANCIAL FREEDOM!!!
 






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED NEWS DAILY 
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 01:46:24 -0700 (PDT)
To: (STUFFED THURSDAY SEPTEMBER 17 1998)
Subject: CLINTON SPECIAL ISSUE: The Oval Orifice/Clinton Sex Therapy/Multi-taskwinsky
Message-ID: <19980917071001.17270.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


We're having an  impeachy time digging up the dirt and
bringing you  all the latest  stories from  Bubbagate!
And in case you missed our erection coverage yesterday
don't forget to check it out after you've read today's
issue. GIVE THAT MAN A CIGAR!

IN TODAY'S ISSUE:

 30 NEW EXTRA HOT JPEGS!
  5 NEW SIZZLING STORIES
   NIPPLED SALES
    MULTI-TASKWINSKY
     HOW TO KISS YOUR BABE GOOD-BYE
      THE BEST OF EUREKA!
       MASO-CASTING CALL
        CLINTON SEX THERAPY
         NICOLE KIDMAN'S TITS
          GRANNY PORN
           THE OVAL ORIFICE
            MUCH MORE!
       ---->   http://stuffed.net/98/9/17/   <----

Welcome to  today's  issue of Stuffed. To read it you should
click on the URL above.  If it is not made clickable by your
email program  you will need to  use your mouse to highlight
the URL,  copy it and then paste it into your browser  (then
press Return).

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/98/9/17/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: CTIA Daily News 
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 09:35:21 -0700 (PDT)
To: CTIA Daily News 
Subject: CTIA Daily News from WOW-COM - September 17, 1998
Message-ID: <199809171629.LAA22564@mailstrom.revnet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary..3996.1071713805.multipart/mixed"

--Boundary..3996.1071713805.multipart/mixed
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit





==========================================
Welcome to today's edition of the CTIA Daily News
from WOW-COM.  Please click on the icon / attachment
for the most important news in wireless communications today.

The Newest Most Comprehensive Tradeshow of Wireless 
Computing and Communications is Only a Month Away. 
Register TODAY!
http://www.wirelessit.com/register.htm 

Team WOW-COM
wowcom@ctia.org
===========================================
 





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--Boundary..3996.1071713805.multipart/mixed--



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Aladdin Systems 
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 12:21:11 -0700 (PDT)
To: ALADDIN2@LISTSERVER.DIGITALRIVER.COM
Subject: Aladdin DropStuff for Windows - 25% off for you!
Message-ID: <11be01bde26b$84f2e1d0$75d2d1d0@c-kosel.digitalriver.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


************************************************

YOU HAVE RECEIVED THIS MAILING AS A RESULT OF JOINING OUR INFORMATION
LIST. BY DOWNLOADING ALADDIN FREEWARE AND PROVIDING US WITH YOUR NAME
AND EMAIL ADDRESS YOU INDICATED THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO BE INFORMED OF
SPECIAL INFORMATION FOR ALADDIN CUSTOMERS. IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO BE
REMOVED FROM THIS LIST PLEASE REFER TO THE INSTRUCTIONS FOUND AT THE
BOTTOM OF THIS EMAIL.

************************************************

Dear Aladdin Expander User,

Did you know there's a new windows shareware utility from Aladdin
that just made cross-platform communication easier? It's called
Aladdin DropStuff, and if you send files back and forth to Mac
users, it'll make your life a whole lot happier! Already, early
users of DropStuff are telling us it's a godsend. For all the details
now, click here http://www.digitalriver.com/AladdinDSWin10/PC.

With Aladdin DropStuff for Windows, in addition to creating Zip
archives, you can also compress in the StuffIt format, the compression
standard for the Mac. So now, you can send a file from your PC to a
Mac user, and they can open it, edit it, and send it back to you
seamlessly and transparently! Or, if like lots of people, you use a
Mac at home and a PC at the office, DropStuff makes it even easier to
transmit and open files you send back and forth from home and work.

DropStuff is loaded with the power user features you need, like the
ability to compress and mail files in one easy step, right from the
Windows desktop with just a right mouse click! Plus, DropStuff lets
you join StuffIt file segments you may receive from a Mac user.
With Aladdin DropStuff, it's like your PC just learned to speak a
whole new language!

Aladdin DropStuff for Windows is a great deal at $20. But for a
limited time, we're offering DropStuff to Aladdin Expander users for
the amazing price of just $14.95! That's a savings of 25% on the
world's first universal compression utility for the PC!

Get DropStuff now at http://www.digitalriver.com/AladdinDSWin10/PC

This special price of $14.95 is for a limited time only! Don't miss
out on the savings.

*************************************************
If you would prefer to not receive Aladdin news and special offers
in the future do NOT reply to this message, instead:
   1. mailto:listserv@listserver.digitalriver.com
   2. Put "UNSUBSCRIBE ALADDIN-WIN" (without quotes) in the FIRST
      LINE of the message BODY
*************************************************


All the best,

Marty McGillivray
Aladdin DropStuff Product Manager




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: drussell@ix.netcom.com
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 19:02:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: "Shamanism and the Drug Propaganda"
Message-ID: <199809180201.TAA11203@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


The Birth of Patriarchy and the Drug War. "A magnificent 

production." Prof. Richard Evans Schultes.

6"x9" Paperback, 365 Pages, 200 Illustrations, Quality Binding.

For an illustrated summary of each chapter, and online ordering,

go to http://www.kalyx.com.

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED NEWS DAILY 
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 02:32:03 -0700 (PDT)
To: (STUFFED FRIDAY SEPTEMBER 18 1998)
Subject: Oh boy, some goodies today, Elvis' sperm discovered/Rock stars' cock dildos?
Message-ID: <19980918071001.15223.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


And as if the lead stories weren't enough, how about all the
FREE hot photos and sexy stories  to titilate and tantalise?
Or the  masses of ultra-weird news,  hot web sites and more.
We know you love to get Stuffed every day, so go on tuck in!

IN TODAY'S ISSUE:

 30 NEW EXTRA HOT JPEGS!
  5 NEW SIZZLING STORIES
   HYDE LIED - SO SAYS SALON MAGAZINE
    PICKING UP CHICKS IN THE GYM
     THE BEST OF EUREKA! - THE HOTTEST SITES
      COCK STARS - SUPERSTAR DILDOS?
       BLUE SUEDE OOZE - ELVIS' SPERM UNCOVERED
        EX COP, LEMONADE & STOLEN CARS
         THE DARWIN AWARDS - NATURAL DESELECTION
          TOTALLY BIZARRE NEWS - WHAT A CRAZY WORLD
           NUDESTOCK '98 - WHAT DID YOU MISS?
            WE SEND YOU TO HELL! :)

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/98/9/18/   <----

Welcome to  today's  issue of Stuffed. To read it you should
click on the URL above.  If it is not made clickable by your
email program  you will need to  use your mouse to highlight
the URL,  copy it and then paste it into your browser  (then
press Return).

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/98/9/18/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "jmotes" 
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 09:50:10 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <020201bde324$4d924000$e401fea9@kathleen>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




SUBSCRIBE 


From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: cvenden@webmail.bellsouth.net
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 18:34:10 -0700 (PDT)
To: homeowners@anywherenet.com
Subject: ATTENTION ALL HOME OWNERS!!!
Message-ID: <19980919025114.606905d84f0d11d297290000c000128f.in@trip.it>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Dear Homeowner:

Would you like to pay off all your bills? Do some home improvements?
Now you can!

There has never been a better time to take advantage of some of the lowest
interest rates in over two decades!

Zero out-of-pocket expense

Loan proceeds may be used for debt consolidation and/or home improvements, or a portion of loan amount can also be used for any purpose

Consolidate your debts into one, easy, low payment

Increase your cash flow

Pay off all your bills

No equity required! (Up to 135% loan-to-value)

No appraisal required for loan amounts $60,000 or less

Fixed rates and payments

Funding in as little as 7 -10 working days

Terms to 25 years or less

Interest may be tax deductible (Consult your tax advisor.)

1st or 2nd low interest mortgages also available

Here is an example of the savings you could receive:

	ITEM			DEBT		PAYMENT

		Credit Card #1	$5,000		$200/mo.
		Credit Card #2	$8,000		$320/mo.
		Credit Card #3	$7,250		$290/mo.
		Personal Loan	$7,750		$310/mo.

		Total		$28,000	      	$1120/mo.

Payment before:	$1120 per month
Payment after:	$337 per month

YOU SAVE $783 PER MONTH - OVER $9,300 IN CASH PER YEAR!

Isn't it time you got out from underneath the burden of all your debt? For
your FREE mortgage analysis visit our website. Remember, there is absolutely no obligation. 

CLICK HERE for more info...


****************************************************************
If you wish to be removed from this mailing list, 
click here and your request will be immediately honored.

@1998 West Coast Funding.  All rights reserved.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: best25@worldonline.nl
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 03:56:26 -0700 (PDT)
To: allofyou@aol.com
Subject: Ground Floor Pre-IPO Opportunity
Message-ID: <199809191057.GAA25805@nebula.hjford.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Most Wall Street investors cannot participate on the upside of an IPO
since the investment firms reserve the stock for themselves. Get the
scoop and learn how to target these companies before they trade on the
NASDAQ Small Cap and Bulletin Board.

REMEMBER, THE MONEY IS ALWAYS MADE GOING INTO THE DEAL.

WANT MORE? Go To: Click Here















From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED NEWS DAILY 
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 23:05:53 -0700 (PDT)
To: (STUFFED SATURDAY SEPTEMBER 19 1998)
Subject: TAKE THE PRESIDENTIAL SEX TOUR/WOMAN WHO TURNED MONICA GREEN
Message-ID: <19980919071000.27541.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Today we have THREE RealVideo movies  showing Clinton
closely embracing Lewinsky on occasions spanning many
months.  See for yourself if the signs were there for
all to see...

IN TODAY'S ISSUE:

 30 NEW EXTRA HOT JPEGS!
  5 NEW SIZZLING STORIES
   TOPLESS DANCER WITH DANGEROUS BOOBS RE-ARRESTED
      FOR BEING TOO REVEALING
     PRESIDENTIAL SEX TOUR + VIDEOS
      THE INFAMOUS DRUDGE REPORT MAY BE IN TROUBLE
       THE BEST OF EUREKA!
        THE WOMAN WHO TURNED MONICA GREEN
         VIRGIN NO LONG-AIR
          MIND IF I GLUE MY FACE TO YOUR FOOT
           TOO MUCH HOMEWORK IS BAD FOR YOU
            RACE CAR MAMA USED TO BE A MAN
             MUCH MORE!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/98/9/19/   <----

Welcome to  today's  issue of Stuffed. To read it you should
click on the URL above.  If it is not made clickable by your
email program  you will need to  use your mouse to highlight
the URL,  copy it and then paste it into your browser  (then
press Return).

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/98/9/19/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: goldpromo@investormail.com
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 21:43:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: adv....ATTENTION : INVESTORS...HOT press release on developing mining company!
Message-ID: <272.775098.24874@user392009.snowcrash.activision.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



NOTE: Your name was added to our list because you have shown an interest in smart investing. If your name 
was added erroneously or you no longer wish to be on our mailing list, 
simply send "remove" to the "from address". 

For further information regarding this investment opportunity: Phone: (604) 681-6186

The Board of Directors of El Misti Gold Limited is pleased to summarize 
current diamond drill results for its wholly owned Sinchao Project in 
northern Peru located some 450 km north of Lima and 30 km from the 
Yanacocha Mine, South America's largest gold producer. These results 
confirm the presence of a large copper-gold-zinc-silver system with 
potentially economic grades amenable to open pit mining. The deposit 
remains open laterally in all directions and there is potential for several 
hundred million tonnes of mineralization. The analytical results were 
provided by Intertek Testing Services (Bondar Clegg). The quality 
assurance for all aspects of the diamond drill program has been 
provided by Howe Chile Ltda., a subsidiary of ACA Howe Ltd.
Drill holes SDH-10, SDH-5, SDH-6 and SDH-7 have delineated 
mineralization over a length of 640 metres and a width of 300 
metres with an average thickness of 478 metres. Preliminary 
test work indicates a specific gravity of 2.6. These measurements 
indicate a potential for a mineralized zone of approximately 239 million
 tonnes at a grade of 1.45g/t gold equivalent (Cu equiv. 0.84%). 
This includes 163 million tonnes at a grade of 1.70 g/t gold equivalent 
(Cu equiv. 0.99%) which includes 111 million tonnes at a grade of 2.18 
g/t gold equivalent (Cu equiv. 1.27 %). The mineralization is polymetallic 
whose value is derived approximately 38% from copper, 24% from gold, 
23% from zinc and 15% silver. The accompanying map (not available in 
e-mail format, please check the Company's web site) shows the area of 
mineralization defined by the current diamond drill results.

Additional results for drill hole SDH-10 and previously released results 
are set out in Table 1 and are summarized below. Gold and copper equivalent 
grades have been calculated for each of the significant mineralized intercepts 
on the basis of in-ground values using the following metal prices: US $287/oz 
gold, US $5.55/oz silver, US $0.72/lb copper, and US $0.52/lb zinc.

Hole SDH 10: 490 (1,181 feet) metres of mineralized intercept at a gold 
equivalent grade of 1.61 g/t (Cu equiv. 0.94 %).
Hole SDH-5: 495 (1,636 feet) metres of mineralized intercept at a gold 
equivalent grade of 1.59 g/t (Cu equiv. 0.92 %).
Hole SDH-6: 602 (1,850 feet) metres of mineralized intercept at a gold 
equivalent grade of 1.22 g/t (Cu equiv. 0.71 %).
Hole SDH-7: 592 (1,810 feet) metres of mineralized intercept at a gold 
equivalent grade of 1.36 g/t (Cu equiv. 0.79 %).

At Sinchao, to date, the Company has undertaken geological mapping, 
geochemical sampling and ground geophysics followed by drilling. 
During 1997, twelve RC holes (1,768 metres) were drilled and during 
1998, seven RC holes (1,174.5 metres) and ten diamond drill holes 
(5,176.25 metres) were drilled.

The Board is highly encouraged with the mineralization and potential 
of the Sinchao project and has retained well known and highly respected 
independent geologist Lindsay R. Bottomer, P. Geo to review all Sinchao 
project data and help the Board formulate the appropriate next steps for 1999.


NOTE: We strive to comply with all laws and to send information to interested parties only.
This message is not intended for, nor was it intentionaly sent to Washington state residents.
Mistigold has paid a fee of $500.00 for advertising on 2-14-1999




For further information regarding this investment opportunity: Phone: (604) 681-6186




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED NEWS DAILY 
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 13:07:25 -0700 (PDT)
To: (STUFFED SUNDAY SEPTEMBER 20 1998)
Subject: WHAT'S THE BETTING ON CLINTON?/NO NIBBLES FOR MONICA!
Message-ID: <19980920071000.7708.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


IN TODAY'S ISSUE:

 30 NEW EXTRA HOT JPEGS!
  5 NEW SIZZLING STORIES
   DEALING WITH JEALOUSY
    MAGIC MISTRESS MATTRESS
     THE BEST OF EUREKA!
      DO I LOOK FAT IN THIS?
       BANGCOCK DISCK CHOP
        SEX SELLS!!!
         NO NIBBLES FOR MONICA
          FROM NUDISM TO BUDDHISM
           WHAT'S THE BETTING ON CLINTON?
            MUCH MORE!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/98/9/20/   <----

Welcome to  today's  issue of Stuffed. To read it you should
click on the URL above.  If it is not made clickable by your
email program  you will need to  use your mouse to highlight
the URL,  copy it and then paste it into your browser  (then
press Return).

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/98/9/20/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: asesor@ragnatela.miller.com.mx
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 10:37:52 -0700 (PDT)
To: asesor@ragnatela.miller.com.mx
Subject: Comercialice su Negocio por Interne
Message-ID: <199809201737.KAA11388@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Vimos su anuncio en los Clasificados y pensamos que esta informacion
puede ser de su interes. Si usted no desea recibir mas mensajes de este
tipo, inserte la palabra "remove" en el Subject/Asunto y automaticamente
sera borrado de nuestra lista.
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Publicite su negocio a miles de personas de forma GRATUITA.

Visite nuestra pagina y obtenga GRATIS un programa para diseńar su pagina Web en
10 minutos:

                              http://www.miller.com.mx/biz.html








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: jkeep@bigfoot.com
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 23:39:46 -0700 (PDT)
To: jkeep@bigfoot.com
Subject: Get a free cell phone and much more.....
Message-ID: <199809210639.XAA10433@allcapecod.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED NEWS DAILY 
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 11:13:55 -0700 (PDT)
To: (STUFFED MONDAY SEPTEMBER 21 1998)
Subject: 'I F**K LUCY' ON THE WEB/NET SEX HITS THE STOCK MARKET
Message-ID: <19980921071001.17302.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


IN TODAY'S ISSUE:

 30 NEW EXTRA HOT JPEGS!
  5 NEW SIZZLING STORIES
   NOOKIE IN THE NEST
    ROAD ROMPS
     CAPITAL HILL HORNINESS
      AUCTION SITE RESTRICTED TO ADULTS
       SWISS SEX SEEKER ARRESTED
        I F**K LUCY
         NET SEX AND STOCKS
          THE BEST OF EUREKA!
           MUCH MORE!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/98/9/21/   <----

Welcome to  today's  issue of Stuffed. To read it you should
click on the URL above.  If it is not made clickable by your
email program  you will need to  use your mouse to highlight
the URL,  copy it and then paste it into your browser  (then
press Return).

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/98/9/21/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: CTIA Daily News 
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 10:22:34 -0700 (PDT)
To: CTIA Daily News 
Subject: CTIA Daily News from WOW-COM - September 21, 1998
Message-ID: <199809211716.MAA20127@mailstrom.revnet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary..3996.1071713805.multipart/mixed"

--Boundary..3996.1071713805.multipart/mixed
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit




==========================================
Welcome to today's edition of the CTIA Daily News
from WOW-COM.  Please click on the icon / attachment
for the most important news in wireless communications today.

The Newest Most Comprehensive Tradeshow of Wireless
Computing and Communications is Less Than a Month Away.
Register TODAY!
http://www.wirelessit.com/register.htm 

Team WOW-COM
wowcom@ctia.org
===========================================
 




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: billxxxjbt@itt.net
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 23:00:51 -0700 (PDT)
To: success@carolina.net
Subject: IN The News
Message-ID: <199702170025.GAA08056@carolina.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Dear Frend,

If you received this message in error, please accept my apologies.
This is the letter you've been reading about in the news lately.  Due to the popularity of this letter on the internet, a major nightly news program recently devoted an entire show to the  investigation of the program described below  to see if it really can make people money.  If you saw it, you know that their conclusion was that, while most people did not make the $50,000 discussed in the plan, most people were able to double and triple their money at the very least, in a short amount of time.
The show also investigated whether or not the program was legal.  Their findings proved once and for all that there are absolutely no laws prohibiting the participation in the program.  This has helped to show people that this is a simple, harmless and fun way to make some extra money at home.  This is for real.
The result of this show has been truly remarkable.  So many people are participating that those involved are doing much better than ever before.  Since everyone makes more as more people try it out, its been very exciting to be a part of lately.  You will understand once you experience it.
You may have thought this is a chain letter or a pyramid scheme (it's not).  You may have thought this is illegal  (it's not).  You may have just decided its not worth your time  (it is).   Whatever the reason you decided not to try it in the past, I ask you to reconsider.
After reading the simple instructions below, you will be ready to start.   I think that once you begin to see your first orders in the mail, you will be surprised to learn just how many people are participating in this program.   I have been involved in the program for a long time but I have never seen so many people trying this out as I have recently.   This is good news because the more people that do it, the more everyone benefits.  If you ever thought of giving this a shot, now's the time to do it.
There's very little to lose, but alot to gain.  Besides making alittle extra cash each week, its fun to wonder how much money will be in your mailbox each day.  I wish all of you could know the feeling I get each day after work as I go to my p.o. box.  Its exhilerating!
Just read over the letter below.  It will make starting a breeze.
Hope to hear from you soon.
                                                                            
                         ---------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------

My advice to you is that you save this letter (or print it) for a time.  The idea is very simple, but it definitely takes a few times reading it over before it sinks in.   I am confident that if you read over this letter briefly once now, and once again whenever you get the chance,  you will begin to see the potential involved.
Most people do not respond to this letter immediately.  Take as much time as you need to let the idea fly around in your head alittle.
This is not a pyramid scheme.   Many people equate this program with illegal schemes that involve nothing but the transferring of cash.  The difference between a legitimate multi-level marketing program and a pyramid scheme is that in a pyramid, there is no money being exchanged for a legitimate product.  The law states this clearly.  Anyone who claims this program is illegal is misinformed in the area of retail law.
In this program, the product is a  financial report that you can simply e-mail to someone  after they order it from you and send cash to you through the mail.   While the report can be sent easily to yout customers with the click of one button through e-mail, it is nonetheless a legitamate product which people choose to send you $5.00 to purchase from you.
The other legal issue that most people ask about in programs such as this one  is the issue of tax legality.  The law is clear that all income must be reported to the government each year.  When customers send you cash, it is your responsibility to keep track of how much you are making and report this at the end of the year.

Following is a simple explanation of the system and simple instructions for you to follow to get started right away:
1)	you save this letter onto your computer in case you need it later
2)	you send $5.00 to each of the 4 people listed below to order a report
3)	each of those 4 people will e-mail you 1 report immediately
4)	you save these 4 reports onto your computer
5)	you go back to this original letter and move everyone's name down 1 level, removing the               person in the 4th position and putting your name and address in the 1st position
6)	you have this newly altered letter e-mailed to tens of thousands of people  (usually people pay a bulk e-mailer to do this for them to start)
7)	when people receive this letter you sent them, they will see your name and address as the 1st report slot and will send you a $5.00 order for it
8)	when people order these reports, from you, you immediately e-mail it  to them (they will give you their e-mail address along with their $5.00)

Thats it folks......its that simple......the $5 is yours!

You e-mail them the report by "copying" it out of the saved e-mail report you received from the person on the list in this letter, and "pasting" it into a new e-mail letter and sending it off....no problem.  After you get the hang of it, you can copy many letters into new e-mails very fast and send off many orders quickly.
The reason it works is that everyone involved has an incentive to help everyone else succeed.  The people you order the reports from will e-mail the reports to you immediately because they will profit when you profit.
Each of the 4 people you order from also will be eager to answer any questions you may have and help you in any way they can so that you can start mailing copies of this letter out with their names on it along with yours.
I mentioned above that success in this system can be guaranteed based on simple statistical facts.   When you send out tens of thousands of advertisements (or pay someone to mail them out for you), you can be absolutely positively assured that a certain percentage will respond and send you $5.00 for the report.  The next fact is that the larger the mailing you have sent out, the more responses you will get.

Please understand this about this program:  It only takes an extremely small percentage of people to respond to your ad in order for you to make a profit.   This is because your advertisement (with your address or P.O. box on it) will be sent to such incredibly large amounts of people.  (A bulk e-mailer can send your letter out to thousands of people per hour.)


OVERVIEW OF OUR  ELECTRONIC MULTI-LEVEL MARKETING PROGRAM:


Basically, this is what we do:  We sell thousands of people a product for $5.00 that costs us next to nothing to produce and e-mail.  As with all multi-level businesses, we build  our business by recruiting new partners and selling our products.  Every state in the U.S. allows you to recruit new multi- level business online (with your computer).
Look at multi-million companies such as New Vision (a vitamin supplier).  We use the exact same method of multi-level selling they use.  The only difference is that our product is a financial report you can easily e-mail to someone, rather than costly vitamins.
The product in this program is a series of four businesses and financial reports.  Each $5.00 order you receive by regular  mail will include the e-mail address of the sender.  To fill each order, you simply e-mail the product to the buyer.  THAT'S IT!...the $5.00 is yours!   It really is THAT simple!   Think about it..........


FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS EXACTLY
The profits are worth it.
So go for it.  Remember the 4 points and we'll see you at the top.


******* I  N  S  T  R  U  C  T  I  O  N  S *******
This is what you must do:


1................  Save this letter onto your computer

2................ Order all 4 reports listed and numbered from the list below.
(For each report send $5.00 and your e-mail address on a piece of paper to each person listed.  When you order, make sure you  print your e-mail address clearly, and also be sure to request each SPECIFIC report.  You will need all four reports, because you will be saving them onto your computer and reselling them.)

(You will receive the reports a few days later by e-mail.  Save them onto your computer)

3................  Now you have 4 financial reports saved on your computer.  These are  legitimate products that people will want to buy.  You are ready to start advertising  your product to tens of thousands  of potential customers.
4................  Take this letter and move everyone's name and address down 1 position.  The person in the 4th position gets erased.  Put your own name (make up a company name) and address (could be a home or PO box) in position 1.

At this point you have 2 options.  If you decide you want to advertise yourself, you need to obtain mailing lists and send this newly altered letter to as many people as you can to get people to order the report from you for $5. This method can be time consuming and costly.
The second option is to pay a bulk e-mailer to mail out your letter for you.  They can send out your letter to tens of thousands of people for a fraction of the cost of the above method. This is the method we recommend and is by far the simplest and cheapest way to go.
When you use a bulk e-mailer, all you need to do is give them a copy of the original letter with the address you want your $5 orders to go to and they will do the rest.   If you are able to find a bulk e-mailer who is already involved with the program, they won't even need the original letter since they will already have it.
There are many bulk e-mailers out there who will send out your letter for you.  You can find them by doing a search of the word "bulk e-mailer" on the internet.   There are many excellent companies out there who will mail for you, but you still must be a little wary.  We have found that some companies don't send them out in a productive manner (w/out using fresh addresses or attaching other messages to yours)  and since there is no sure way to know exactly their methods, you're left wondering.

The best of all scenarios is to have someone who is also involved in this program mail out your letters for you.  There are many private bulk e-mailers out there who send out this very letter with their names on the list because they know the potential involved.  There is a good chance that one of the people you will be ordering your report from will be able to bulk e-mail out your letter for you.
When you order the report from the people on the list in this letter, they will e-mail you a report---if they bulk e-mail, they will probably include an offer to send your letters out for you.
There is a simple reason why it is best to have someone involved in the program bulk e-mail out your letters for you.  As mentioned before, it is difficult to verify that a company is sending out your letter in the most profitable way.  If the person sending out the letter is also involved in the program, they will understand the program and, best of all, they will do everything possible to see you get as many responses as possible because when you profit they will profit as well since they are on the list as well.  This gives the person an incentive to take great care in sending out your mail since they have alot to gain from it as well as you.  Other bulk e-mailing companies will not have this same incentive.


ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON ALL ORDERS!!!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--

REQUIRED REPORTS


***Order each REPORT by NUMBER and NAME***
Following is the list of people you will send $5 to:
(Remember to include your e-mail address on the paper concealing the 5 dollars)
When they e-mail the report to you, save them onto your computer.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------


REPORT #1
"HOW TO MAKE $250,000 THROUGH MULTI-LEVEL SALES"
ORDER REPORT #1 FROM:
RB Enterprises
P.O.Box 2341
Falls Church VA 22042

 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
REPORT #2
"MAJOR CORPORATIONS AND MULTI-LEVEL SALES"
ORDER REPORT #2 FROM:
API
P.O.Box 44275
Eden Praire.MN 55344



----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
REPORT #3
"SOURCES FOR THE BEST MAILING LISTS"
ORDER REPORT #3 FROM:
PCC
P.O.Box 3535
Margate, NJ 08402
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
REPORT #4
"Multi Level Marketing Intelligence Report"
ORDER REPORT #4 From:

AlaLink
P.O. Box 311907
Enterprise AL 36331-1907
 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Here's the fun part:
Take a look at what is called the "multiplier effect" in marketing:


Let's say you decide to start small just to see how it goes.  Assume you advertise your letter until 10 people respond and send you $5.00.  Also assume that those 10 people also advertise until they get 10 people to order and send them $5.00.
Assume this continues for everyone in your downline and observe the following results:
* 10 people order report #1 from you and send you $5.00

5  * 10 =  $50
* each of those 10 people advertise until 10 people order report #1 from them (since their mailing will have your name  as #2, 100 people will also send you $5 each to order report #2)

5  *  100=  $500
* each of those 500 people advertise until 10 people order report #1 from them (1000 people order report #3 from you  and send you $5)

5  *  1000=  $5,000
* each of those 1000 people advertise until 10 people order report #1 from them

(10,000 people order report #4 from you and send you $5)
5  *  10,000=  $50,000


$50,000  +  $5,000  +  $500  +  $50
Total =  $55,550

A bulk e-mailer can send your letter out to thousands of people in one night.  The above scenario holds true if only 10 people out of those thousands respond.  This program is a study in statistics.  A certain percentage WILL respond and send you $5.
There is no guarante that you will make $50,000 each time, but its nice just to have some help with the rent or to have a few bills taken care of each month. This program is fun to be a part of. We hope to hear from you soon!"















From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: franghjk@skynet.be
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 01:02:56 -0800 (PST)
To: franghjk@dfn.de
Subject: ATTENTION SMOKERS STOP SMOKING IMMEDIATELY
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


             BE A NON-SMOKER IN 7 DAYS!!!  WITH KICK-IT
          

                   *Kick-It Works 96% of the Time!          

                   *Supresses your craving for smoking, AND Eating!
              
                   *Significant Smoking Reduction in just 48 hours!

                   *Your system detoxified & Nicotine-Free in 7 days!

                   *The Patch Works Only 22% of the Time
           
                   *The Gum Works Only 6% Of The Time

                   *A percentage of each sale Donated To Project DARE!                                            
                                                                                                                     
click on the link below to learn more about Kick-It

 http://www.freeyellow.com/members6/nocig/  


 



To be removed from our mailing list click whitehores7@Hotmail.com and place remove in the subject






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED NEWS DAILY 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 12:03:17 -0700 (PDT)
To: (STUFFED TUESDAY SEPTEMBER 22 1998)
Subject: Oh boy, some goodies today. Porn starr on our payroll/Spice girls go 69
Message-ID: <19980922071000.13745.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


What's better than 10 free sexy pics a day? 30 free sexy pics a day. Stuffed has the pics, 
stories and nutty sexy news! It doesn't get any better than this, come on take a peek we dare you!

IN TODAY'S ISSUE:

 SPURED LOVER SPREADS PIX!
  HOW TO BAG A BAR BABE
   THE BEST OF EUREKA
    NEW KIT LETS TEENAGE GIRLS CREATE IMAGINARY BOYFRIENDS
     MORE FUN WITH MS WORD
      LEWINSKY'S GOT THE BLUES IN ROME
       SURVEY - MOST FOLKS ONLY READ SEXY PARTS OF THE STARR REPORT
        SEX WITH CINDY-CRAWFORD
   
       ---->   http://stuffed.net/98/9/22/   <----

Welcome to  today's  issue of Stuffed. To read it you should
click on the URL above.  If it is not made clickable by your
email program  you will need to  use your mouse to highlight
the URL,  copy it and then paste it into your browser  (then
press Return).

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/98/9/22/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mail Administrator
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 23:03:54 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Mail System Error - Returned Mail
Message-ID: <19980922060250.AAB28281@Iguanodon.big-orange.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

This Message was undeliverable due to the following reason:

The following destination addresses were unknown (please check
the addresses and re-mail the message):

SMTP 

Please reply to Postmaster@Iguanodon.big-orange.net
if you feel this message to be in error.




Reporting-MTA: dns; Iguanodon.big-orange.net
Received-From-MTA: dns; [165.87.194.252] [165.87.194.252]
Arrival-Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 08:02:49 +0200


To: rinus@nox.nl
Subject: zonnebril
From: Lefty Cyberslasher 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 11:00:45 +0500

hobbies=Hobbies are Star Trek, computers and surfing the internet. 
age=35 years old
adres=Irfan Mansoor Ali
110 Hasanabad Block "e"
North Nazimabad Karachi 74700
Pakistan














react=Dont u give away free Oil of Olayz?
:)Take Care and Send me my glasses fast





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mail Administrator
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 23:12:38 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Mail System Error - Returned Mail
Message-ID: <19980922061153.AAB28454@Iguanodon.big-orange.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

This Message was undeliverable due to the following reason:

The following destination addresses were unknown (please check
the addresses and re-mail the message):

SMTP 

Please reply to Postmaster@Iguanodon.big-orange.net
if you feel this message to be in error.




Reporting-MTA: dns; Iguanodon.big-orange.net
Received-From-MTA: dns; [165.87.194.252] [165.87.194.252]
Arrival-Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 08:11:50 +0200


To: rinus@nox.nl
Subject: zonnebril
From: Lefty Cyberslasher 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 11:10:03 +0500

hobbies=Hobbies are Star Trek, computers and surfing the internet. 
age=35 years old
adres=Irfan Mansoor Ali
110 Hasanabad Block "e"
North Nazimabad Karachi 74700
Pakistan














react=Dont u give away free Oil of Olayz?
:)Take Care and Send me my glasses fast





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: CTIA Daily News 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 10:16:58 -0700 (PDT)
To: CTIA Daily News 
Subject: CTIA Daily News from WOW-COM - September 22, 1998
Message-ID: <199809221711.MAA12560@mailstrom.revnet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary..3996.1071713805.multipart/mixed"

--Boundary..3996.1071713805.multipart/mixed
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit




==========================================
Welcome to today's edition of the CTIA Daily News
from WOW-COM.  Please click on the icon / attachment
for the most important news in wireless communications today.

Your company just formed a partnership in a country 
you never heard of.  Are you worried about international 
roaming fraud?  You should be.

CTIA's Wireless Security '98 - It's Just Smart Business
ORLANDO, FLORIDA · NOVEMBER 9 - 11, 1998 
http://www.wow-com.com/professional/ 

Team WOW-COM
wowcom@ctia.org
===========================================
 





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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Marita Näsman-Repo 
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 07:04:15 -0700 (PDT)
To: F-Secure-Press-Global@DataFellows.com
Subject: MEDIA RELEASE! Washington DC office opened
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980922135655.009c0580@smtp.datafellows.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain







The following press release for your information. 

Regards

Marita Nasman-Repo

#############################################

Data Fellows Opens Regional Sales Office in Washington, D.C.



	Helsinki, Finland, September 21, 1998 -- Data Fellows, the leading
developer of data security solutions, announces the opening of a regional
sales office in Washington, D.C.  The new office is located to better serve
Data Fellows' current and future clients in the federal government and in
the Eastern portion of the United States.


	Data Fellows is no stranger to the Washington area.  The company's client
base includes the Federal Reserve Bank, the Internal Revenue Service, the
Department of Defense, NASA, and other government agencies.  The new office
is the first of several planned regional offices designed to further
enhance the company's relations with its North American customer base.


	Technology industry veteran Joe Arcade has been appointed the sales
director for the new Washington office.  Mr Arcade has been involved in
Washington-area technology for the past 15 years and has held executive
positions with companies including Unisys, British Telecom, Sun
Microsystems, Cabletron and Litton.  Mr. Arcade has a Bachelors degree from
Youngstown State University and a Masters degree from Catholic University.


	With offices in San Jose, CA, and Helsinki, Finland, privately-owned Data
Fellows is the leading technology provider of data security solutions for
computer networks and desktop computers.  The company's F-Secure data
security product line includes F-Secure Workstation Suite, consisting of
malicious code detection and removal, unobtrusive file and network
encryption, and personal firewall functionality, all integrated into a
policy-based management architecture; F-Secure Anti-Virus, with multiple
scanning engines (including F-PROT and AVP), is the most comprehensive,
real-time virus scanning and protection system for all Windows platforms;
F-Secure VPN+ provides a software-based, IPSEC-compliant Virtual Private
Network solution for large corporate networks as well as remote and small
office networks;  F-Secure FileCrypto is the first and only product to
integrate strong real-time encryption directly into the Windows file
system; F­Secure SSH provides secure remote login, terminal, and other
connections over unsecured networks. It is the most widely used secure
remote administration tool; and F-Secure NameSurfer is the solution for
remote Internet and Intranet DNS administration.  Its easy-to-use WWW user
interface automates and simplifies DNS administration. The company's
products are relied on by many of the world's largest companies,
governments, universities and institutions. The products are available
worldwide in more than 100 countries through Data Fellows and its business
partners, and the company has experienced 100% annual growth during each of
the past three years.


	For more information, contact Data Fellows, 675 North First Street, 8th
floor, San Jose, CA 95112; tel 408-938-6700; fax 408-938-6701; 
http://www.DataFellows.com   or  info@DataFellows.com.

######################################



 

--
Marita.Nasman-Repo@DataFellows.com, 
World-Wide Web http://www.DataFellows.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: jal@jb.com
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 15:53:53 -0700 (PDT)
To: jal@jb.com
Subject: Child Bicycle Safety Site
Message-ID: <199809222253.PAA01245@ias.jb.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Word has it that you ride a bicycle - 
and that's why you've received this piece of email.
---------  

You should visit this site if you ride a bike AND have a child:

http://www.springfield-or.com/familytrends

Tell someone else who rides with a child what you've seen.

---------
If you wish to be removed from future mailings, please reply with the word
"Remove" in the subject line.  Thank you.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED NEWS DAILY 
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 11:01:46 -0700 (PDT)
To: (STUFFED WEDNESDAY SEPTEMBER 23 1998)
Subject: TODAY'S NEWS AND PICS PACKED STUFFED! - READ IT NOW!
Message-ID: <19980923071001.10591.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


+ GRAND JURY TESTIMONY
+ YOUR OWN PRIVATE PORN STAR
+ MISTRESS OF MEASURMENT
+ INTERVIEW FOR INTERCOURSE
+ SEXUAL HEALING- THE UPS AND DOWNS
+ LEAH REMINI GETS TOUCHED
+ SEX ON THE BUS
+ THE BEST OF EUREKA

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/98/9/23/   <----

Welcome to  today's  issue of Stuffed. To read it you should
click on the URL above.  If it is not made clickable by your
email program  you will need to  use your mouse to highlight
the URL,  copy it and then paste it into your browser  (then
press Return).

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/98/9/23/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: CTIA Daily News 
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 10:44:58 -0700 (PDT)
To: CTIA Daily News 
Subject: CTIA Daily News from WOW-COM - September 23, 1998
Message-ID: <199809231737.MAA03879@mailstrom.revnet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary..3996.1071713805.multipart/mixed"

--Boundary..3996.1071713805.multipart/mixed
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit




==========================================
Welcome to today's edition of the CTIA Daily News
from WOW-COM.  Please click on the icon / attachment
for the most important news in wireless communications today.

The Newest Most Comprehensive Tradeshow of Wireless
Computing and Communications is Less Than a Month Away.
Register TODAY!
http://www.wirelessit.com/register.htm 

Team WOW-COM
wowcom@ctia.org
===========================================
 




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: News Letter 
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 15:49:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: ConnectFree September 98 Newsletter
Message-ID: <199809232249.XAA13993@swampthing.connectfree.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Connect Free					Newsletter 					September 98


Welcome to Connect Free, and thank you for joining our service, we hope you
find our first newsletter informative.

						Aardvaak

For the avoidance of doubt, Aardvaak is a reseller for FREE Internet access
for Connect Free, if you have signed up to the service through Aardvaak you
are a customer of Connect Free and not Aardvaak, however this is only in
relation to FREE Internet access and not any other service that maybe
available through Aardvaak.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------

						Games Service

The Games Service is now live and can be accessed as of today, the reason
for the delay is because it has been on trial. Connect Free aims to have
the fastest and cheapest way of connecting and playing your favourite games
on-line with others across the UK, Quake is the first game to come on-line.
(If you have not ever played games on-line before, take it from me, what an
experience)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------

						Sending E-mails

Because the service is FREE, we are open to abuse by hackers and people
using the service to send out unsolicited e-mails, as a deterrent we have
had to raise the security.=20
As of now, anyone sending e-mails from other service providers, will need
to re-configure their mail package for sending e-mails from
smtp.connectfree.net

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------

						Future Developments

Coming Soon=85 FREE telephone numbers, for example Premium and Personal rate
numbers. These numbers are not only FREE but you can also make money from
the calls, "makes a change from BT making all the money".

How does it work? Simple, you just attach a Personal or Premium rate number
to your existing telephone number and inform who ever you wish what the new
number is and start to make income from the calls you receive.
(Ideal for people running a business from home)=20

A Personal Number is a number for life and is charged at around about 31p
in the day and 12p in the evening, if you move house the number moves with
you. Premium rate numbers are those awful numbers that no one wants to
phone which are charged at 50p and =A31 a minute,=20

How much money can I make? Depends on how many calls you receive and it's a
great way for compensating against the cost of the local call when
connecting to our service.=20

How does Connect Free make money out of all this? well, it's a win, win
situation, you make money, we make money, and we all get the satisfaction
that for a change we are all making money instead of BT. IT's GOOD TO TALK.

More information will be available soon.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------

							Engaged Tones

If you have received any engaged tones? please except our appologies,
however in October of this year we will be doubling our capacity, and in
March of next year we will quadruple our capacity.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------

							Improvements

Connect Free would like to hear from you, if there are any ways in which
you think we could improve our service, or add more content to the Connect
Free web site.=20

It is Connect Free policy not to send unwanted rubbish by e-mail or junk
advertising by any other means. All we ask is that you receive our monthly
newsletter informing you of any changes to the service and any new service
that may come available which you may benefit from.
Please note that Terms & Conditions are available from the Connect Free web
site.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------

Contact us at	 	info@connectfree.net 	or 	Telephone 0702 115 2525

The end
____________________________________________________________________________
__________________________________




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED NEWS DAILY 
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 04:03:23 -0700 (PDT)
To: (STUFFED THURSDAY SEPTEMBER 24 1998)
Subject: TODAY'S NEWS AND PICS PACKED STUFFED! - READ IT NOW!
Message-ID: <19980924071000.4990.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


+ THE ESSENTIALS OF SEDUCTION
+ CELEBRATE SEX
+ BUTTNAKED FROLIC
+ THE BEST OF EUREKA
+ PLENTY OF SEX ON THE NET
+ PUSSY FLAVORED CANDY
+ SEX OLYMPICS
+ HAUNTING NUDDY PICS

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/98/9/24/   <----

Welcome to  today's  issue of Stuffed. To read it you should
click on the URL above.  If it is not made clickable by your
email program  you will need to  use your mouse to highlight
the URL,  copy it and then paste it into your browser  (then
press Return).

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/98/9/24/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: listmaster@extensis.com
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 18:12:46 -0700 (PDT)
To: undisclosed-recipients:;
Subject: More Tools.  No "Futzing" - Mask Pro 2.0
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Announcing Extensis Mask Pro 2.0 


Now, get more tools, more control, and NO "futzing" with 
Mask Pro 2.0 http://www.extensis.com/products/MaskPro/


· NEW! EdgeBlender technology removes background colors from mask edges.
· NEW! PrecisionEdge detection creates EDITABLE magic paths for precise edging.
· NEW! IntelliBrush removes background color from an individual layer.
· NEW! Global choke tightens your entire mask-instantly. 
· IMPROVED! Smarter color-matching technology gives one-click masking.


Extensis MaskPro 2.0 is a significant upgrade to the industry standard
in masking software.  Mask Pro 2.0 features an expanded and enhanced 
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the power tools to create precision masks which far exceed the standard 
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your time creating, not "futzing".

With NEW EdgeBlender technology, instantly remove background colors 
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Better yet, for complex edges, use PrecisionEdge to automatically 
create an editable magic path-adjust the tolerance, choke, threshold 
or edit the path on a pixel-level for the most precise edges possible. 

Best yet, access all of Mask Pro's tools from the NEW Extensis 
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More Tools. More Control.  No "Futzing".  Mask Pro 2.0.


SPECIAL UPGRADE OFFER to Mask Pro 1.0 Owners:
Upgrade to Mask Pro 2.0 NOW for only $99.95 (SAVE $200)

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To ORDER, download a free demo, or for more information, please visit:
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Or call Extensis at (800) 796-9798 or (503) 274-2020.


Extensis Mask Pro is fully compatible with Adobe Photoshop 4 and 5 
(Mac and Windows) and Photo-Paint (Windows).


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
PS. We have made every effort to ensure this message is being sent 
only to people who have expressed interest in Extensis products.  
If we have sent this to you in error, please accept our apologies 
and reply with "REMOVE" in the subject line for automatic exclusion 
from future communications.  If you know someone who would like to 
be on our mailing list have them send an email to 
listmaster@extensis.com with "ADD" in the subject line and their 
email address in the body.

P.P.S. This message is intended for North American customers.  
If you are located outside of North America and have received this 
message, please visit  www.extensis.com/purchase/ to find the nearest 
local distributor in your country.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Scott Balson" 
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 01:49:10 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: Urgent - ABC coverage on One Nation
Message-ID: <009801bde798$72c80bc0$f81c64cb@QU.fox.uq.net.ai>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





Dear One Nation supporter
 
Att 6.55pm the ABC will be carrying a 5 minute 
address by One Nation.
 
We apologise for the short time warning, but we 
have just been advised.
 
The One Nation Health Policy released today is 
now on line at:
 
http://www.gwb.com.au/onenation/policy/health.html
 
GWB
 
 
 
Scott Balson
Pauline Hanson's One Nation Web 
Master


From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Edwin E. Smith" 
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 18:45:12 -0700 (PDT)
To: edsmith@IntNet.net
Subject: This is a good one!
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980924214334.007e97d0@mailhost.IntNet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





If you have Microsoft Word (6.0 or later), and have a thesaurus
installed, do the following:

1) Open a new, blank document.
2) Type in the words: I'd like to see Bill Clinton resign.
3) Highlight the entire sentence.
4) Click on the tools menu and select thesaurus (tools, language,
   thesaurus)

Look what is immediately highlighted in the selection box. 






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: winkler.elke@usa.net
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 05:19:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Hello from USA,
Message-ID: <199809251219.FAA00402@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Here is Elke agian, it's been a while we've exchanged our e-mails.
I'd like to touch bases with you again on the 
Network Branch.

Are you still interested in setting your own business on the internet?

Our project is ready to be taken over. So you can run your branch 
of an International Dating, Matchmaking and Travel Service 
in your region.

We will provide for you all necessary setup, software, etc.,
and you can start making your money right away!
So, please get back to me on that.

Warmly,
Elke Winkler
Berlin, Germany

winkler.elke@usa.net
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED NEWS DAILY 
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 02:49:35 -0700 (PDT)
To: (STUFFED FRIDAY SEPTEMBER 25 1998)
Subject: TODAY'S NEWS AND PICS PACKED STUFFED! - READ IT NOW!
Message-ID: <19980925071000.4056.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


+ BOP TIL YOU DROP
+ SEX MAD FOR IT
+ STUPID SPICE
+ THE BEST OF EUREKA
+ PANTY THEIF
+ LEZ BE PALS
+ WHIP U
+ DO I TAFT TO

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/98/9/25/   <----

Welcome to  today's  issue of Stuffed. To read it you should
click on the URL above.  If it is not made clickable by your
email program  you will need to  use your mouse to highlight
the URL,  copy it and then paste it into your browser  (then
press Return).

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/98/9/25/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Edwin E. Smith" 
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 08:59:54 -0700 (PDT)
To: edsmith@IntNet.net
Subject: Georges
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980925115803.00818600@mailhost.IntNet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


The rain has started here in north Tampa. Hope to see all of you in the
next life. :-)




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "FYI Stock Alert" <59426627@27995.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 09:50:20 -0700 (PDT)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: What does IBM Know about ClearWorks that you don't?
Message-ID: <199809251643.LAA00964@sparky.clearworks.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




"ClearWorks Technologies...announced it has been 
selected as an IBM Authorized Home Systems Integrator."

"ClearWorks has been trained by IBM to provide superior installation and
reliable service...[to] residents throughout the US."
--Excerpts from the ClearWorks Technologies Official Press release,
September 25th, 1998

Don't miss this one!  CLWK (OTC BB)
To read the rest of the offical press release go to:
http://www.fyistockalert.com

For more information e-mail sales@fyistockalert.com








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Marita Näsman-Repo 
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 08:55:38 -0700 (PDT)
To: F-Secure-Press-Global@DataFellows.com
Subject: MEDIA RELEASE: Data Fellows and BackWeb sign agreement
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980925160509.00971740@smtp.datafellows.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




For immediate release.
September 25, 1998

####################################

Data Fellows to integrate BackWeb's technology into CounterSign architecture 


Helsinki, Finland, September 25, 1998 - Data Fellows Ltd., a leading data
security vendor, and BackWeb Technologies, a leader in push solutions for
Knowledge Distribution, today announced an agreement to integrate BackWeb's
Polite Server and Agent technology into Data Fellows' CounterSign
management architecture. The CounterSign architecture provides a scalable,
policy-based framework for managing the security infrastructure. 

By including BackWeb technology in Data Fellows products, protection
against security breaches reaches the highest level, as the security system
will automatically and transparently keep itself up-to-date during idle
time online. BackWeb's solution will complement the existing Internet
update technology in F-Secure security products, which include F-Secure
Workstation Suite, F-Secure Anti-Virus, F-Secure FileCrypto, F-Secure VPN+,
F-Secure SSH and F-Secure NameSurfer. 

"Combining our integrated security solutions with BackWeb's Polite
distribution technology provides clear benefits to corporate customers in
today's insecure Internet environments," said Risto Siilasmaa, President
and CEO of Data Fellows. "The use of bandwidth-friendly and scaleable push
technology is a natural extension of our strong Internet approach." 

F-Secure utilizes BackWeb's new client, which allows data transfer to
customer networks securely even through firewalls. Administrators of
corporate networks will be able to make the decision about deploying a
particular version update in their networks, on a case-by-case basis, if
they prefer to evaluate the updates before deployment. This type of
implementation ensures that customers always have the latest versions on
hand and are able to follow company security policy on software
distribution. Data Fellows will also utilize the BackWeb broadcast channel
for delivering alerts as well as relevant product service and support
information to the corporate administrators and to its partners world-wide. 

Data Fellows' future plans include establishing partnerships with ISPs for
using BackWeb's push technology and its down- and upstream capabilities to
enable ISPs to find new sources of revenue from value-added services, such
as well-managed security services.

About Data Fellows

Data Fellows is one of the world's leading developers of data security
products. The Company develops, markets and supports anti-virus, data
security and cryptography software products for corporate computer
networks. It has offices in San Jose, California, and Espoo, Finland, with
corporate partners, VARs and other distributors in over 80 countries around
the world. 

All F-Secure products are integrated into the CounterSign management
architecture, which provides a three-tier, scaleable, policy-based
management infrastructure to minimize the costs of security management. 

F-Secure Workstation Suite consists of malicious code detection and
removal, unobtrusive file and network encryption, and personal firewall
functionality, all integrated into a policy-based management architecture.

F-Secure Anti-Virus, with multiple scanning engines (including F-PROT and
AVP), is the most comprehensive, real-time virus scanning and protection
system for all Windows platforms. 

F-Secure VPN+ provides a software-based, IPSEC-compliant Virtual Private
Network solution for large corporate networks as well as remote and small
office networks. 

F-Secure FileCrypto is the first and only product to integrate strong
real-time encryption directly into the Windows file system.

F­Secure SSH provides secure remote login, terminal, and other connections
over unsecured networks. It is the most widely used secure remote
administration tool.

F-Secure NameSurfer is the solution for remote Internet and Intranet DNS
administration.  Its easy-to-use WWW user interface automates and
simplifies DNS administration.

The Company has customers in more than 100 countries, including many of the
world's largest industrial corporations and best-known telecommunications
companies, major international airlines, European governments, post offices
and defense forces, and several of the world's largest banks. 

The Company was named one of the Top 100 Technology companies in the world
by Red Herring magazine in its September 1998 issue. Other commendations
include Hot Product of the Year 1997 (Data Communications Magazine); Best
Anti-Virus product (SVM Magazine, May 1997); Editor's Choice (SECURE
Computing Magazine); and the 1996 European Information Technology Prize.

For more information, please contact:

USA:

Data Fellows Inc. 
Mr. Petri Laakkonen, President
Tel. +1 408 938 6700, fax  +1 408 938 6701
E-mail:  Petri.Laakkonen@DataFellows.com

Europe:

Data Fellows Oy
Mr. Jari Puhakka, Director, Business Development 
PL 24   
FIN-02231 ESPOO				
Tel.  +358 9 859 900, fax. +358 9 8599 0599
E-mail: Jari.Puhakka@DataFellows.com
or visit our web site at http://www.DataFellows.com

--
Marita.Nasman-Repo@DataFellows.com, 
World-Wide Web http://www.DataFellows.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Scott Balson" 
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 23:19:05 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: Release of Veterans' Affairs policy
Message-ID: <006601bde84c$717e40e0$f81c64cb@QU.fox.uq.net.ai>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





Please check:
 
http://www.gwb.com.au/onenation/policy/vet.html
 
GWB
 
 
 
Scott Balson


From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: kdss@proxy.businessnet.dk
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 00:20:10 -0700 (PDT)
To: jai4@beg1
Subject: Hello
Message-ID: <199809260925.KAA11731@proxy.businessnet.dk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


AN OFFER YOU CAN'T REFUSE!

Hi.  Ever thought about bulk E-mailing? I have done 
some extensive research into the bulk email business.
I have found that people charge outrageous prices to
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1 MILLION EMAIL NAMES - $49
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15 MILLION EMAIL NAMES - $199


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--------------------------------------------------------------
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__15 million email names - $99

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working demo bulk email program.

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Send your check or money order to:

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PO Box 61798
Boulder City, NV 89006

Or to pay by "Check by phone" call us at (702) 294-7769 between the hours of 
11 am - 3 pm Pacific.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED NEWS DAILY 
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 03:10:10 -0700 (PDT)
To: (STUFFED SATURDAY SEPTEMBER 26 1998)
Subject: TODAY'S NEWS AND PICS PACKED STUFFED! - READ IT NOW!
Message-ID: <19980926071000.22742.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


+ 30 FREE HOT JPEG PHOTOS
+ 5 SUPER SEXY STORIES
+ HOT AND SPICY FISH TACOS
+ SCENTUAL SCROTUMS
+ PORNO AIDE JOB AT HUSTLER FOR STARR
+ THE BEST OF EUREKA
+ PERVY GETS SKIRTY
+ 3-D PORN - SEEING IS BELIEVING
+ IT MIGHT BE A BOY
+ TINKERBELL PRIEST
+ COMMANDER IN QUEEF

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/98/9/26/   <----

Welcome to  today's  issue of Stuffed. To read it you should
click on the URL above.  If it is not made clickable by your
email program  you will need to  use your mouse to highlight
the URL,  copy it and then paste it into your browser  (then
press Return).

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/98/9/26/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Han Solo 
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 10:11:00 -0700 (PDT)
To: HACKERS@PLEARN.EDU.PL
Subject: Virus for UNIX
Message-ID: <19980926171206.958.rocketmail@send103.yahoomail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hello!!!

Somebody can tell me about a site where I can find virus for UNIX
systems.

I need them please!!!!!!!!!





_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: oppykm@usa.net
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 04:04:03 -0700 (PDT)
To: oppykm@usa.net
Subject: This stock up 250%
Message-ID: <199809271103.FAA07168@Rt66.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Omicron Technologies, Inc. 


The stock is up 250% in less than 45 days. 


 

During this same time period the DOW has gone down over 1,700 points!


This obscure, but soon to be famous company can make you a fortune
with patented technology originally developed for NASA


Don't Miss This One


For more information: http://www.network-2001.com/orcron


The stock symbol is: OGPS


_______________________

 

 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED NEWS DAILY 
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 01:54:04 -0700 (PDT)
To: (STUFFED SUNDAY SEPTEMBER 27 1998)
Subject: TODAY'S NEWS AND PICS PACKED STUFFED! - READ IT NOW!
Message-ID: <19980927071000.5189.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


+ 30 FREE HOT JPEG PHOTOS
+ 5 SUPER SEXY STORIES
+ OH MY GOD, YOU'RE MARRIED
+ TROY BEYER TALKS ABOUT SEX
+ THE BOTTOM LINE IN SURFING FOR SEX
+ THE BEST OF EUREKA
+ SEX COURT
+ MENO-PLAY
+ MAROONED IN THE BIG EASY
+ SEX STILL SELLS

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/98/9/27/   <----

Welcome to  today's  issue of Stuffed. To read it you should
click on the URL above.  If it is not made clickable by your
email program  you will need to  use your mouse to highlight
the URL,  copy it and then paste it into your browser  (then
press Return).

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/98/9/27/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: sales@galaxyhp.com
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 12:03:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Medical Equipment
Message-ID: <199809271902.MAA21566@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



==================================================
You're receiving this email because you are an Apple Macintosh
user. If you wish to be excluded from any future mailings please
return this message with "remove" (without quotes) as the subject.
==================================================

GALAXY specializes in the repair and upgrade of Apple
Macintosh, PowerMacintosh and PowerBook computers.

We provide component level repair, with 6 month warranty,
for Motherboards, Power Supplies and Floppy Drives 
for all Macintosh and PowerComputing Systems.  

We sell new and used Macintosh, PowerMacintosh 
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Motherboards, Floppy Drives, RAM, Hard Drives, 
CD-ROM Drives, Zip Drives, Video Cards,  Monitors, 
Printers, Accelerators, G3 Cards, Cache Cards,  
FPU's,  Cables,  Modems,  Power Supplies & Adapters,  
Keyboards,  Mice, Ethernet Cards, Batteries, 
Pentium Cards, Case Parts.  .  and a whole lot more!

Our prices are very competitive, for example:
-    PowerMac 7200/75MHz 8/500/CD - $599  (Ref :90day) 
-    Apple 200MHz PPC604e Card  $199    (New: 2yr)
-    1.44MB auto-insert floppy drive    $65  (Ref: 6mths)
-    Power Computing power supply repair   $115  (Ref: 6mths)
-    Global Village 33.6Kbps fax/modem     $45  (Ref: 90day)
-    24x External CD-ROM Drive  $135   (New: 1yr)
-    Apple 166MHz Pentium PC Card     $349   (New: 1yr)
-    Apple MultiScan 15" AV Display     $339    (New: 1yr)
-    PMac 6100 256K L2 Cache Card     $15    (New: 1yr)

To find out more about GALAXY please visit our web site at:  
                        

Or, if you have a particular, or immediate interest please
send your email request to 

We accept Mastercard, Visa, American Express, edu. .& gov't
PO's, and welcome international orders.

GALAXY Hardware - 5075 Nectar Way - Eugene OR 97405

541-345-1817  (voice)     541-345-3094  (fax)
+++++++++++


 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: anto@commnet.it
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 22:36:45 -0700 (PDT)
To: You@yourplace.com
Subject: Find  Out  Anything  About  Anyone  On  The  Net  !!!!
Message-ID: <199809271544.LAA22172@key.globalx.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



YOU can easily learn how to investigate and learn EVERYTHING 
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++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Admin
Internet Services
This message is not intended for residents in the 
State of Washington, screening of addresses has been done
to the best of our technical ability.
If you are a Washington resident or otherwise wish to be
removed from this list, go to global remove site if you want
your address removed from future mailing. 
http://209.84.246.162/remove.htm
 
This Global Communication has been sent to you by:
PAVILION ADVERTISING SERVICES
Offices:  London, Paris, Berlin, Hong Kong






















From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Edwin E. Smith" 
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 10:24:52 -0700 (PDT)
To: edsmith@IntNet.net
Subject: Body Count
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980927132357.00811e40@mailhost.IntNet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


 THURSDAY SEPTEMBER 24, 1998

------------------------------------------
[WorldNetDaily Exclusive]
------------------------------------------

The Clinton 'body count'
New alarm over growing list of dead close to president

By Michael Rivero
Copyright 1998, WorldNetDaily.com

"Dear Sir," began Monica Lewinsky's somewhat peevish letter of July 3rd,
1997.  In it, according to the recently released report by Kenneth Starr,
the former intern chided the president for failing to secure for her a
new White House job, and hinted that continued stalling would result in
word of their affair leaking out.

The next day, Monica confronted Bill Clinton in an Oval Office meeting
she described as "very emotional;" a meeting which ended when the
president warned her, "It's illegal to threaten the president of the
United States."

Three days later, another former White House intern, Mary Mahoney, was
shot five times in the back of the Georgetown Starbuck's she managed. 
Two of her co-workers were also killed.  Even though cash remained in the
register, the triple murder was quickly dismissed as a botched robbery.
No suspects have ever been arrested.

Coincidence?  Maybe.

Former Democratic National Committee fundraiser and Commerce Secretary
Ron Brown was under criminal investigation.  Indictments seemed imminent.
 Ron Brown had reportedly told a confidante that he would, "not go down
alone."  Days later, his plane crashed on approach to Dubrovnik airport
during a trade mission excursion to Croatia.  Military forensics
investigators were alarmed by what appeared to be a .45-caliber bullet
hole in the top of Brown's head.

Coincidence?  Maybe.

Yet another fundraiser was Larry Lawrence, famed for his short residence
at Arlington National Cemetery.  Less well known is that he had been
under criminal investigation by the State Department for three weeks when
he died.

Coincidence?  Maybe.

But for a growing number of Americans, the sheer numbers of strange
deaths surrounding the career of Bill Clinton has begun to raise serious
questions.  In a meeting with Vernon Jordan, Monica Lewinsky reportedly
expressed fears that she might, "end up like Mary Mahoney," and began to
make sure that others knew of her affair with Bill Clinton.

Of all the strange deaths surrounding the Clintons, none has come under
more renewed scrutiny than the fate of White House Deputy Counsel Vincent
Foster, who was found dead in Fort Marcy Park on July 20, 1993.  The
official investigation concluded that Foster inserted a gun into his
mouth and pulled the trigger.  Yet according to the lab results neither
Foster's fingerprints nor blood was on the gun, nor were powder granules
or bullet fragments traceable to that gun in his wounds.  The purported
"suicide note" was found to be a forgery by three independent experts. 
The record of a second wound on Foster's neck, and an FBI memo that
contradicts the official autopsy, strongly suggests that Foster's wounds
were misrepresented in the official report.  The FBI's own records
revealed that deliberate deception was used to link Foster with the gun
found with his body.  Partly on the basis of that evidence, the FBI is
now in federal court on charges of witness harassment and evidence
tampering in the case.

In normal police procedure, homicide is assumed right from the start. 
Suicide must be proven, because homicides are often concealed behind
phony suicides.  Yet in the case of Foster, serious doubts persist
regarding the credibility of the evidence offered up in support of the
claim of suicide, and a recent Zogby Poll revealed that more than
two-thirds of all Americans no longer think the official conclusion of
suicide is believable.

The official conclusion regarding Commerce Secretary Ron Brown's death
was that his plane was brought down by, "the worst storm in a decade." 
However, the Dubrovnik airport weather office, just two miles from the
crash site, could not confirm the existence of any such storm, nor did
any other pilots in the area.  According to the April 8, 1996, Aviation
Week & Space Technology, three separate radio links to the aircraft all
quit while the aircraft was still seven miles from the crash, evidence
that the plane suffered a total electrical failure in flight which was
never investigated.  The perfectly cylindrical hole in Ron Brown's skull
never triggered an autopsy.  After Ron Brown's death, his co-worker,
Barbara Wise, was found locked in her office at the Department of
Commerce, dead, bruised, and partially nude.  Following Brown's death,
John Huang's new boss at Commerce was Charles Meissner, who shortly
thereafter died in yet another plane crash.

These and other questionable deaths have been collected together in a
document known as the "Dead Bodies List," which can now be found in many
locations on the World Wide Web.  Some of the cases are poorly documented
and have been dismissed until now as "conspiracy theory."  However,
analysis of the "Dead Bodies List" by experts on the Internet revealed
that in many cases, deaths whose circumstances demanded an investigation
had been ignored.

Some events officially declared to be accidents seem to stretch the
bounds of credulity.  In one case, Stanley Heard, member of a Clinton
advisory committee and chiropractor to Clinton family members, and his
lawyer Steve Dickson were flying to a meeting with a reporter.  Heard's
private plane caught fire, but he was able to make it back to his airport
and rent another plane to continue his journey.  The rented plane then
caught fire.  This time, Heard did not make it back to the airport. 
Gandy Baugh, attorney for Clinton friend and convicted cocaine
distributor Dan Lasater, fell out of a building.  Baugh's law partner was
dead just one month later.  Jon Parnell Walker, an RTC investigator
looking into Whitewater, interrupted his inspection of his new apartment
to throw himself off of the balcony.

Nor does the pattern of suspicious deaths discriminate by gender.  Susan
Coleman was reportedly a mistress to Clinton while he was Arkansas
attorney general; she was seven months pregnant with what she claimed was
Clinton's child when she died.  Judy Gibbs, a former Penthouse Pet and
call girl, reportedly counted Bill Clinton among her clients.  Shortly
after agreeing to help police in an investigation into Arkansas cocaine
trafficking, Judy burned to death.  Kathy Ferguson, a witness in the
Paula Jones case, was killed with a gunshot behind the ear and was
declared a suicide, even though her suitcases had all been packed for an
immediate trip.  One month later, Bill Shelton, Kathy's boyfriend and a
police officer who had vowed to get to the bottom of Kathy's murder, was
also dead of a gunshot, his body dumped on Kathy's grave.

Another alarming trend observed in these deaths is how society's
safeguards against murder appear to have been compromised.  Many of the
questionable deaths involved either negligence or the complicity of
medical examiners.

Dr. Fahmy Malek was the Arkansas medical examiner under then-Gov. Bill
Clinton.  His most famous case involved his ruling in the "Train Deaths"
case of Don Henry and Kevin Ives in which Dr. Malek ruled that the two
boys had fallen asleep on the railroad tracks and been run over by a
train.  A subsequent autopsy by another examiner found signs of foul play
on both the boys' bodies and concluded that they had been murdered. 
According to Jean Duffey, the prosecutor in the Saline County Drug Task
Force, the two boys accidentally stumbled onto a "protected" drug drop
and were killed for it.  Dan Harmon, the Arkansas investigator who
concluded there was no murder, is now in prison on drug charges.  Despite
the evidence for murder and national exposure, the Henry/Ives case has
never officially been re-opened, and Jean Duffy has since left Arkansas
out of fear for her life.  Several witnesses in the Henry/Ives case later
died and were ruled as either suicides or natural causes by Dr. Malek,
whose willingness to provide an innocuous explanation for these deaths is
illustrated in one case where he claimed that a headless victim had died
of natural causes.  Malek claimed that the victim's small dog had eaten
the head, which was later recovered from a trash bin.  When pressed to
fire Dr. Malek, Gov. Clinton excused the medical examiner's performance
as the result of overwork and gave him a raise.

Dr. Malek's Washington D.C. counterpart was Fairfax, Virginia, Medical
Examiner James C. Beyer.  Long before his autopsy on Vincent Foster,
Beyer's work was disputed.  In the case of Tim Easely, Beyer ignored
obvious defensive wounds, and eyewitness reports of an argument between
Easely and his girlfriend, to conclude that Easely had committed suicide
by stabbing himself in the chest.  When an outside expert called
attention to the fact that Easely had been stabbed clear through one of
his palms, the girlfriend confessed to the murder.  In the case of Tommy
Burkett, Beyer ignored signs of violence done to Burkett to rule it was a
simple suicide.  A subsequent autopsy showed that Beyer had not even done
the work he claimed in his original autopsy.  Even though Beyer showed
X-rays to Burkett's father, Beyer later claimed they did not exist.  When
Beyer performed the Foster autopsy, he wrote in his report that X-rays
had been taken, then again claimed they never existed when asked to
produce them.

In some cases, the deaths simply have no innocuous explanation.  One
witness, Jeff Rhodes (who had information on the Henry/Ives murders) was
found with his hands and feet partly sawn off, shot in the head, then
burned and thrown in a trash bin.  Another obvious murder was Jerry
Parks, Clinton's head of security in Little Rock.  Immediately following
news of Foster's death, Parks reportedly told his family, "Bill Clinton
is cleaning house."  Just weeks after the Parks' home had been broken
into and his files on Clinton stolen, Parks was shot four times in his
car.

Ron Miller, on whose evidence Nora and Gene Lum were convicted of
laundering Clinton campaign donations, went from perfect heath to death
in just one week in a manner so strange that his doctors ordered special
postmortem tests.  The results of those tests have never been released,
but toxicologists familiar with the case suggest that Miller's symptoms
are consistent with Ricin, a cold war assassin's poison.

For a fortunate few the murder attempts have failed.  In the case of
Arkansas drug investigator Russell Welch, his doctors were able to
identify that he had been infected with military anthrax in time to save
his life.  Gary Johnson, Gennifer Flowers' neighbor whose video
surveillance camera had accidentally caught Bill Clinton entering
Flowers' apartment, was left for dead by the men who took the video tape.
 Gary survived, although he is crippled for life.  L.J. Davis, a reporter
looking into the Clinton scandals, was attacked in his hotel room but
survived (his notes on Clinton were stolen).  Dennis Patrick, whose bond
trading account at Dan Lasater's company was used to launder millions of
dollars of drug money, has had four attempts on his life.

But the real importance of the "Dead Bodies List" isn't what it tells us
of modern political intrigues, but what it tells us of ourselves, in how
we respond to it.  The list has been around for quite some time, largely
ignored by the general public, completely ignored by the mainstream
media.  The common reaction has been that such a list is unbelievable,
not for its contents, but for its implications.  For that reason, most
Americans have, until recently, accepted at face value the official
assurances that all these deaths are isolated incidents with no real
meaning; that all the indications of foul play and cover-up are just an
accumulation of clerical error and "overwork;" that it's all just
"coincidence."

On Aug. 17, as Bill Clinton admitted his "inappropriate relationship"
with Monica Lewinsky on nationwide television, Americans began to
confront the unavoidable fact that this president and his administration
had lied to the public about a rather trivial matter.  Americans came to
realize that this president and his administration could no longer safely
be assumed to have told the truth on more serious matters.

In this new climate of doubt, the "Dead Bodies List" has enjoyed a new
vogue, albeit a dark one.  Talk radio discusses it.  Total strangers
e-mail it to each other.  What was unthinkable a few months ago has
become all too plausible.  Political murder has come to America.  Those
cases on the "Dead Bodies List" where hard evidence directly contradicts
the official conclusion have come under renewed scrutiny.

It takes courage for the average citizen to accept that the government
has lied to them, for by doing so, the citizen also accepts the
obligation to do something about it.  Americans know beyond a doubt that
they have been lied to.  Americans are discovering that they cannot
ignore the fact of being lied to without sacrificing that part of the
American self-image that holds honor and justice as ideals.  But as the
above poll would suggest, such a sacrifice is no longer acceptable.

---------------------------------------------------------
[WorldNetDaily.com]
---------------------------------------------------------
(C) 1998 Western Journalism Center
---------------------------------------------------------
This page was last built 9/24/98; 11:51:28
Site: matlanta@mindspring.com

REFERENCES:

A List of Strange Deaths of Individuals Who All Had Verifiable Ties with
Bill Clinton
http://www.devvy.com/death_list.html

VINCE FOSTER FIVE YEARS AFTER
Unsolved Mystery Hampers All Starr's Probes By Carl Limbacher
http://www.esotericworldnews.com/vince.htm

VINCE FOSTER INVESTIGATIONCHRIS RUDDY, (PITTSBURGH TRIBUNE)
http://www.ruddynews.com

Christopher Ruddy's New Web Site 
http://www.newsmax.com/insidecover.shtml

Vince Foster - Patrick Knowlton v. FBI Agent Bransford
http://www.monumental.com/lawofcjc/pk/

*** Foster "J'Accuse!"
http://www.angelfire.com/fl/pjcomix/zola1.html

EENIE MENA MINIE MOE...
http://www.esotericworldnews.com/eenie.htm

The Mena Coverup
http://www.esotericworldnews.com/mena.htm

THE "SECRET" CHEMICAL FACTORY THAT NO ONE TRIED TO HIDE
http://www.esotericworldnews.com/london.htm
---------------------------





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: anto@commnet.it
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 04:28:35 -0700 (PDT)
To: You@yourplace.com
Subject: YOUR  CLASSIFIED - AD / 333  NEWSPAPERS  !!!!
Message-ID: <199809271748.NAA26235@key.globalx.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



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This message is not intended for residents in the 
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to the best of our technical ability.
If you are a Washington resident or otherwise wish to be
removed from this list, go to global remove site if you want
your address removed from future mailing. 
http://209.84.246.162/remove.htm
 
This Global Communication has been sent to you by:
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: anto@commnet.it
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 00:33:05 -0700 (PDT)
To: You@yourplace.com
Subject: Find  Out  Anything  About  Anyone  On  The  Net  !!!!
Message-ID: <199809272208.SAA08331@sampson.cbn.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



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anyone else  !!!


It is absolutely amazing !!!
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     of record.

   +  YOU can TRACK down and locate an old debtor who is
     hiding from you and see if he/she is hiding any assets.

   +  YOU can look up "unlisted telephone numbers."  Locate
     social security, birth, adoption or death records.
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                    St. Louis,  MO  63151-5019  USA

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THANK YOU for your kind attention, and have a nice day !!!!


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++




YOUR AD IN 333 NEWSPAPERS !!!!!!!!!!
***********************************************

         Seven years ago, I learned how to place my Classified Ad in
several hundred newspapers, with just one telephone call.  And, my
cost was $0.51 per newspaper.  The total circulation was well over
1.5 Million.  I could reach just about any market, anywhere in this
country.  Since then, my small mail-order company has exploded.
And, I use this same time tested and true method week after week.

         I would like to share this powerful information and show you
how to save hundreds, even thousands of dollars on advertising that
works.  The average cost of a classified ad in a newspaper is about
$15.00 to $20.00 dollars.  Multiply that by 333 and your total cost is
well over $6,000.00 Dollars.  By using our amazing method, your
total cost is only $170.00.  Not to mention the time and money you
save by placing one call, instead of 333 long distance calls.

          You can limit your promotion to a Single State or place your
ad in Several States around the country, all with just one phone call.
You can reach One Million Readers on the East-Cost today and a
Million on the West-Coast tomorrow.  It's that simple  !!!!

            Your cost for this priceless information, is only $19.00 !!!  
You will make that back on your first promotion.  WE are so confident that
this type of advertising will boost your profits, we will guarantee your
satisfaction with our Money Back Guarantee !!  So, you have nothing
to lose.  Now, order our amazing classified ad method today !!!!!! 


                                PRINT ORDER FORM
Ship To:                    **************************
*********
NAME____________________________________________

ADDRESS________________________________________

CITY______________________________________________

STATE__________________    ZIP_____________________

E-MAIL__________________________________

Don't Delay,   ORDER YOUR COMPLETE MEDIA KIT TODAY !!!!!!!

**********************************************************************
Mail Payment  $19.00  CASH,  money order,  or check  TO:
********************
 
                                  INFORMATION, Ltd.
                                  P. O. Box  515019 
                                  St. Louis, MO 63151-5019  
                                  U.S.A.

WE will ship your complete KIT directly to you !!!!
 

**************************************************************
OPTIONAL / OVERNIGHT SHIPPING - ADD $15.00
**************************************************************
                          
Thank you for your kind attention, and have a nice day !!!


       YOU MAY ORDER BOTH PACKAGE KITS FOR ONLY $33.00



++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Admin
Internet Services
This message is not intended for residents in the 
State of Washington, screening of addresses has been done
to the best of our technical ability.
If you are a Washington resident or otherwise wish to be
removed from this list, go to global remove site if you want
your address removed from future mailing. 
http://209.84.246.162/remove.htm
 
This Global Communication has been sent to you by:
PAVILION ADVERTISING SERVICES
Offices:  London, Paris, Berlin, Hong Kong






















From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED NEWS DAILY 
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 03:52:30 -0700 (PDT)
To: (STUFFED MONDAY SEPTEMBER 28 1998)
Subject: TODAY'S NEWS AND PICS PACKED STUFFED! - READ IT NOW!
Message-ID: <19980928071000.25042.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


+ 30 FREE HOT JPEG PHOTOS
+ 5 SUPER SEXY STORIES
+ NOTES ON MARRIAGE
+ SUCKING AND FLOPPING
+ MADONNA GOES ALL GIRL
+ THE BEST OF EUREKA
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+ TOP 9 SIGNS GRAMPS IS ON VIAGRA
+ NO PLACE TO HIDE AT THE NAKED LUNCH
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       ---->   http://stuffed.net/98/9/28/   <----

Welcome to  today's  issue of Stuffed. To read it you should
click on the URL above.  If it is not made clickable by your
email program  you will need to  use your mouse to highlight
the URL,  copy it and then paste it into your browser  (then
press Return).

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/98/9/28/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bluesky17@mailexcite.com
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 08:09:57 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: GOLD IN BOLIVIA
Message-ID: <199809291509.IAA12218@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



INTRODUCTION

SUN RIVER MINING, INC. offers investors an incredible 
ground-floor
investment opportunity in a company that is slated to begin 
producing 
gold during 1999 at a cash cost of less than US$100 per ounce!

Sun River Mining went public in September and trades on the 
NASDAQ OTC 
electronic bulletin board under the symbol "SUNR".  Sun River 
Mining is 
tightly-held (insiders hold 7.8 million shares), has a limited 
float 
(approximately 1.5 million shares) and is not very widely known.

The Company's primary business is the acquisition, exploration 
and
development of placer gold projects in Bolivia, with the goal of 
becoming 
Bolivia's largest and lowest-cost alluvial gold producer.  The 
management 
team has over 60 years of placer mining experience.


THE COMPANY

Sun River Mining, through its Bolivian subsidiary, North Bolivian
Investment S.A. has entered into a Letter of Understanding 
Agreement 
with Aluvion S.A. and its shareholders to acquire up to an 81% 
equity 
interest in Aluvion, which is a Bolivian company holding mineral 
concessions in the Tipuani River basin.  Aluvion management  has 
extensive dredging experience in alluvial / placer gold prospects 
and 
owns hydraulic excavation equipment.

The Company has obtained a report on the Tipuani River prospects 
of 
Aluvion from the respected mining and engineering firm in Denver, 
Colorado of Watts, Griffis & McOuat, Limited ("WGM").  The Report 
concluded that "there are indeed significant volumes of unmined 
uriferous gravels to justify interest in establishing commercial 
operations based on these deposits." WGM recommended 
additional drilling of prospects for evaluation purposes,
and that negotiations to reduce royalty interests in the 
concessions begin.

The company is currently seeking funding sources and / or 
oint venture partners to provide capital for the pursuit of the 
Aluvion S.A.opportunities.  The Letter of Understanding Agreement 
requires aggregate payments of $7,189,000 to complete a 74.324% 
equity interest acquisition of Aluvion, of which over $400,00 has 
been 
advanced to Aluvion with $5.57 million due January 31, 1999 and a 
further 
$1.2 million to be paid out of production.  Further, $2.5 million 
additional 
paid in capital would increase SUNR's equity interest in Aluvion 
to 81%.  
There are on-going negotiations with several financing sources; 
however, 
the Company has not received a binding commitment for such funds 
at this 
time, nor are there guarantees or assurances that such a 
financing can be 
arranged on terms acceptable to Sun River Mining.

Sun River Mining's Denver-area location allows it to tap into a 
wealth of local 
technical, financial and operational expertise.  Other 
Colorado-based firms with 
major property positions as well as operating and developing 
mines in Bolivia 
include:  Orvana Resources (developing the Don Mario and Pederson 
gold projects), 
Granges, Inc. (undertaking feasibility studies on the Capa Circa 
and Amayapampa 
deposits), and Golden Eagle International.


MANAGEMENT

Among operating companies, a key component of success is the 
experience of the 
management team.

If Sun River Mining acquires Aluvion S.A., it will have the 
benefit of
Gaston Fernandez (currently the President of Aluvion) who has 45 
years 
of mining experience, mostly in dredging operations in South 
America.  
Mr. Fernandez was Chief Engineer on the Kaka River dredge 
operated 
by South America Placers, Inc. from 1957 - 1965, using the same 
dredge 
that Sun River Mining / Aluvion intends to acquire, refurbish and 
use 
on the Tipuani & Kaka River projects.  His son, Marcelo 
Fernandez, is 
a mining engineer with over 20 years of placer mining experience 
(a graduate 
of the Colorado School of Mines), who is employed by Aluvion as 
technical 
and operations manager for the Lower Tipuani and Kaka River gold 
projects.


THE PROSPECTS

Lower Tipuani.  The Lower Tipuani prospects cover approximately 8 
km along 
the Tipuani River between the towns of Guanay and Tipuani. Guanay 
is located 
105 kilometers north of LaPaz, Bolivia, and is connected with 
LaPaz by a 230-km 
paved, gravel and dirt road (a new paved road is under 
construction).

In the Lower Tipuani area, the river is 30 to 60 meters wide and 
up to 10 meters deep.  
All of the necessary infrastructure is in place, including a 
100-man base camp, 
access roads and high voltage hydroelectric power lines.

An environmental impact study has been completed and approved by 
the Bolivian government.  
The one remaining permit necessary to begin construction, the 
"environmental 
operating license", takes about 60 days to receive (Aluvion needs 
to provide 
Bolivian government with information on the equipment to be used 
and a schedule 
for the exploitation phase).

Planned mining operations would involve dredging, washing and 
filtering river 
gravels to recover free particles of gold and produce dore bars 
(> 95% Au).  With no 
chemical processes involved, mining and processing operations do 
not pose the 
risk of introducing into the environment the chemicals used to 
recover gold by 
many other mining projects.

The Lower Tipuani alluvials would be mined out over a four-year 
span (1999 - 2002).  
During this period, Aluvion projects recovering over 257,000 
ounces of gold, or 
an average of 64,300 ounces per year.  Cash operating costs are 
estimated at US$93 
per ounce (these projections have been reviewed by Watts, Griffis 
& McOuat).

Kaka River.  Subject to financing, operations are currently 
projected to begin in 
the year 2000; gravel deposits, if economically producable, could 
last for an 
estimated minimum 20 year mine life (this prospect is not subject 
to seasonal 
shutdowns during the rainy season).

Sun River Mining / Rio Del Sol have entered into a letter of 
intent with
Central Cooperative Teoponte, which represents nine local 
cooperatives 
operating along the Kaka River.  Subject to funding and 
performance requirements, 
the Kaka River properties are expected to be acquired in return 
for a production 
royalty (no cash / shares / debt).

NEW LISTING ("SUNR" on OTC:BB)

GOLD PRODUCTION PROJECTED TO BEGIN IN 1999

PROJECTED ANNUAL PRODUCTION OF > 150,000 oz/yr @ US$96/oz

FOR MORE INFORMATION CONTACT:

SUN RIVER MINING, INC.
Suite  201    5353 Manhattan Circle
Boulder, Colorado  80303  USA

Phone: (303) 543 - 8434    

WATTS, GRIFFIS & McOUAT REPORT


NOTE: For those on the internet who do not want to recieve 
exciting messages 
such as this.....
* To be removed from our mailing list, call us 
direct @ 702-257-8547 ext 143 for removal. 

*We strive to comply with all state and federal laws and to send 
ads only to interested parties.

*This ad is not intended for nor do we knowingly send to 
Washington State residents. 

* OR CLICK_HERE_TO_GOTO_REMOVE-LIST.COM   
(http://remove-list.com)
Remove-List is a free public service offering to help the general 
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If you want their help please add your name to their list and we 
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not receive a commercial email from us or any other member bulk 
emailer.

* Responding to the "return address" will NOT have your name 
removed. 




 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: emailking.associates@cwix.com
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 15:19:19 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: advertisement
Message-ID: <199809302219.PAA23529@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: health@success600.comt
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 04:54:47 -0700 (PDT)
To: Friend
Subject: Health And wealh  -62803
Message-ID: <199809291154.EAA10721@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


This is a FREE offer if you wish to be removed from future mailings, please e-mail 
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED NEWS DAILY 
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 06:18:08 -0700 (PDT)
To: (STUFFED TUESDAY SEPTEMBER 29 1998)
Subject: TODAY'S NEWS AND PICS PACKED STUFFED! - READ IT NOW!
Message-ID: <19980929071000.11862.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


+ 30 FREE HOT JPEG PHOTOS
+ 5 SUPER SEXY STORIES
+ TONGUE TWISTER
+ SEX AGE AND UNDERPANTS
+ APHRODISIACS
+ THE BEST OF EUREKA
+ WE ALL LOVE OUR PORN
+ LA VIDA CALIENTE
+ BABY EATING PYTHON
+ SAN FRANCISCO SEX REACTION
+ BIRTHDAY GIRL-ERICKA

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/98/9/29/   <----

Welcome to  today's  issue of Stuffed. To read it you should
click on the URL above.  If it is not made clickable by your
email program  you will need to  use your mouse to highlight
the URL,  copy it and then paste it into your browser  (then
press Return).

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/98/9/29/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Leif Ericksen 
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 06:38:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Bill Gates Jokes
Message-ID: <3610E19E.A6070FEB@imho.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


This is a top ten list of how to Irritate Bill Gates...  To funny to not
post!
> 
> Today's MailBits.com Joke:
> 
> >From the Home Office in Wahoo, Nebraska,
> it's the Top Ten List for April 21, 1998 
> 
> Top Ten Ways to Irritate Bill Gates
> 
> 
> 10. Steal his "nerdboy" license plate. 
> 
> 9. Accuse him of sexually harassing your laser jet printer.
> 
> 8. Beat his high score on Tetris. 
> 
> 7. Ask him if they caught the guy who did that to his hair.
> 
> 6. Tell him you heard he's "microsoft." 
> 
> 5. Leave his Spock ears on your dashboard so they melt. 
> 
> 4. Let the air out of the tires on the Gatesmobile. 
> 
> 3. Drop hints that Oprah's richer than he is. 
> 
> 2. WWW him right in the dot-com. 
> 
> 1. Two words: dork tax. 
> 
> 
> ========
> Did you see today's advertiser (above)?
> 
> They need you to fill out surveys--and they'll PAY YOU!
> 
> Have a look.
> ========
> 
> 
> 
> ==> Want to forward this mailing to a friend? Go ahead! But
> be sure to forward the whole message (including the
> copyright notice below).
> 
> 
> (C) Copyright MailBits.com 1998. To subscribe to this free
> mailing, go to http://www.MailBits.com/Jokes or, for
> automatic subscription, send email to Jokes@MailBits.com
> 
> 
> 
> ____________________
> This email is part of your joke-a-day subscription. You can
> cancel your subscription at any time by going to
> http://www.mailbits.com/ or by sending email to
> jokes.unsubscribe@mailbits.com
> 
> Know a (clean) joke? Send it to SubmitJokes@MailBits.com
> 
> To contact us, email feedback@mailbits.com
> 
> 
> 
			- lhe




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Scott Balson" 
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 17:48:40 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: One Nation Update
Message-ID: <014d01bdeb43$18be41e0$f81c64cb@QU.fox.uq.net.ai>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





Dear One Nation supporters in 
NSW 
Later today Pauline Hanson will launch the One 
Nation campaign in Gatton.
 
In the meantime there are two new pages on the 
Internet worth visiting
 
The day Pauline Hanson defeated the politically correct 
lobby
http://www.gwb.com.au/gwb/news/onenation/federal/28sept
 
Liberals and Nationals lump law abiding firearm owners in with 
paedophiles
http://www.gwb.com.au/onenation/press/290998.html
(With a link to the Liberal web site page)
 
Please have a look at further policy updates at:
http://www.gwb.com.au/onenation/policy.html
 
and don't forget the Federal Election pages at:
http://www.gwb.com.au/onenation/federal
 
Finally, on Saturday you can participate in real time chat 
with hundreds of others, View:
http://www.gwb.com.au/onenation/forum.html
to find out how.
 
GWB
 
 
 
Scott Balson
Pauline Hanson's One Nation Web 
Master


From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Scott Balson" 
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 13:06:57 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: One Nation launch - the day the media snapped
Message-ID: <004b01bdebe4$fcd91d40$f81c64cb@QU.fox.uq.net.ai>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





Dear One Nation supporter, 
 
Please take time to view this report with images of the One 
Nation launch yesterday.
 
http://www.gwb.com.au/gwb/news/onenation/federal/launch/
 
GWB
 
 
 
Scott Balson


From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: accutone@earthlink.net
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 06:11:44 -0700 (PDT)
To: qunaxawi@toad.com
Subject: 99 Toyotas as low as 2% over invoice
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Please accept our appologies for your inconvenience if you are
not interested in this e-mail offer. If you are interested in a new 99'
toyota car, truck, or van at prices as low as 2% over invoice
on selected models and/or huge savings on pre-owned certified toyotas
as well as 100's of other pre-owned vehicles of all makes and models
below kelly blue book, please respond with your name, phone #,
e-mail address and the specific model you are interested in.
Please include all the required information that we have requested, 
or there will be a delay processing your request. We thank you for your
 time. please accept our apologies for the intrusion and de-select yourself 
from our mailing list if not interested. Thank you.  
                





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED NEWS DAILY 
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 01:17:10 -0700 (PDT)
To: (STUFFED WEDNESDAY SEPTEMBER 30 1998)
Subject: TODAY'S NEWS AND PICS PACKED STUFFED! - READ IT NOW!
Message-ID: <19980930071000.693.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


+ 30 FREE HOT JPEG PHOTOS
+ 5 SUPER SEXY STORIES
+ GETTING GIRLS HORNY
+ COW SABATOGE
+ BAD BOYS, BAD BOYS
+ THE BEST OF EUREKA
+ BILL KNOCKS PAMELA DOWN TO 2ND
+ THE EVIL ALIENS ARE COMING
+ LOONY TUNES AND MORE

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/98/9/30/   <----

Welcome to  today's  issue of Stuffed. To read it you should
click on the URL above.  If it is not made clickable by your
email program  you will need to  use your mouse to highlight
the URL,  copy it and then paste it into your browser  (then
press Return).

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/98/9/30/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bubba219@mailexcite.com
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 07:51:18 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: MAJOR STOCK ALERT!!  A 3 MILLION GOLD RESOURCE  CONFIRMED!!
Message-ID: <199810011450.HAA01797@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



GOLD RIDGE INVESTMENT CORP. ANNOUNCES:


GOLD MARKET RECOVERY GAINING STRENGTH - 
INVESTORS SHIFTING ATTENTION TO UNDERVALUED 
COMPANIES WITH WORLD-CLASS GOLD DEPOSITS 

EMGOLD MINING'S 100%-OWNED IDAHO-MARYLAND 
PROJECT HOSTS 2.97 MILLION OUNCE RESOURCE - 
TO BE DEVELOPED @ 140,000 oz/yr @ US$215 / oz Au


EMGOLD MINING CORPORATION ("EMR" - VSE)
1610 - 777 Dunsmuir Street, P. O. Box 10435
Vancouver, BC  V7Y 1K4  Canada
Phone: (604) 687 - 4622    Fax: (604) 687 - 4212
Toll-Free:  (888) 267 - 1400
website:  http://www.emgold.com


Introduction

EMGOLD MINING CORP. has made significant progress 
in bringing the historic Idaho-Maryland gold mine 
to a production decision.  Recent engineering studies 
indicate that less than half of the known gold has been 
extracted from the deposit, and that a 3,000,000 ounce 
resource remains to be mined.


History & Past Production

The Idaho-Maryland gold mine was discovered in 1851, 
and was in nearly-continuous production from 1862 
through 1956.  Total recorded production from the mine 
was 2,383,000 ounces of gold from 5,546,000 tons of ore 
(0.43 oz/ton recovered grade).  When the mine closed in 
1956 due to escalating costs and the fixed price of gold 
of US$35/oz, mining operations were underway on 25 different 
faces on 6 different levels.


Large Mineralized System Defined - Extensive Infrastructure 
In Place The Idaho-Maryland vein system is 9,000 feet long, 
up to 3,000 feet wide, and has been partially-mined from 
surface to the 2000 foot level.  Access to the mine's 15 
working levels is provided by the three-compartment, 
3,460-foot deep New Brunswick Shaft.  Over 70 miles of 
underground tunnels and workings provide access to much 
of the property.


A Three Million Ounce Gold Resource Has Been Defined....
A 1992 study by James Askew and Associates Inc. estimated 
that the remaining gold resources and potential 
mineralization between the 2000 and 3280 levels of the 
Idaho-Maryland mine are 9,117,500 ST @ 0.326 oz Au/ST 
(containing 2,968,400 oz Au).  This resource estimate 
excludes the potential for large, bulk tonnage targets 
identified by EMGOLD in 1997.  


Upside Potential:  3,000,000+ oz Au

Located within the wedge-shaped confines of three 
bounding faults, a 3-D geologic model developed for 
the Idaho-Maryland mine demonstrates the potential 
for continuity of the existing vein system to a 
vertical depth of 5,000 feet (the Idaho-Maryland 
mine is essentially unexplored below a depth of 3,280 feet).

What is not widely known is that the adjoining Empire 
mine produced six million ounces of gold to a depth of 
5,200 feet!  This fact, combined with the knowledge that 
all mineralized structures developed on the lowest levels 
of the Idaho-Maryland mine remain open at depth, supports 
EMGOLD's belief that considerably more ore may exist at depth.


Development Program (1998 - 1999)

EMGOLD's plans for reviving the Idaho-Maryland mine are to 
first de-water the mine, and then go underground to do further 
exploration to prove up the total resource potential.   
EMGOLD has applied for and been granted all permits necessary 
for re-opening the New Brunswick shaft, de-watering the mine 
and completing a bankable feasibility.


Potential Gold Production of at Least 140,000 oz / 
yr @ US$215 / oz Au EMGOLD plans to resume operations at 
the Idaho-Maryland mine at an initial mining rate of 
1,500 ST ore / day, which would produce approximately 
140,000 ounces of gold per year.  With the addition of 
a second shaft, it may be possible to increase production 
to 5,000 ST/day - at this production level, the Idaho-Maryland 
mine would produce over 200,000 ounces of gold per year 
(on par with other major mines).

Recent studies indicate that the Idaho-Maryland mine could 
be profitably developed and operated at a long-term gold 
price of US$300/oz based on an estimated operating cost 
(excluding capital and royalties) of US$215 per ounce.  


Current Market Conditions

The current gold rally is gaining strength with each 
passing day!

In the past month, bullion prices have risen nearly 10%.  
Yesterday, the Philadelphia XAU gold and silver index 
closed at 74.69, up 53% from its record low of 48.67 
set in late August.
Mining stocks have regained favor with major Wall 
Street firms:  Merrill Lynch has initiated coverage of 
Placer Dome, Barrick, TVX and Kinross, while Bear Stearns 
has upgraded the recommendations of Asarco, Cyprus Amax 
and Phelps Dodge.

To a large extent, the market rebound has largely 
benefited the major mining companies, whose share 
prices are now fully-valued (or even
over-valued) at current gold prices.  However, we 
believe that, as the current rally continues, investors 
will increasingly seek out undervalued junior exploration 
and development companies with multi-million ounce gold deposits.


Opportunity for Investors

Trading at a tremendous discount to its fair market value, 
EMGOLD offers investors a low-risk investment opportunity 
in the current market environment, and a chance to accumulate 
a significant position in a stock that can be expected to 
rally strongly as gold prices move above US$300 / oz. 

With just 11.5 million shares outstanding (14 million 
fully-diluted) 
and a current share price of Cdn$0.28, the equity markets are 
valuing the Idaho-Maryland gold mine at just Cdn$1.06 per 
ounce of gold (Cdn$1.35 / oz Au on a fully-diluted basis).  


EMGOLD's  Idaho-Maryland mine offers one of the best advanced 
exploration / developmental prospects available in North America. 
 
With inferred resources of almost three million ounces, 
nearly one hundred years of operating history, an existing 
3,400-foot, three-compartment  shaft and 70+ miles of 
underground workings, EMGOLD has 100% control of a world-class 
gold project with the vast majority of the expensive 
infrastructure in place and ready to go.


For more information, please contact Andrew Hunter
toll-free at 1 - 888 - 267 - 1400



Disclaimer: The information contained herein has been 
compiled or derived from sources believed reliable and 
contains information and opinions which are accurate 
and complete.  However, Gold Ridge makes no representation 
or warranty, express or implied, in respect thereof, 
takes no responsibility for any errors and omissions 
which may be contained herein and accepts no liability 
whatsoever for any loss arising from any use or reliance 
upon this report or its contents.  The information provided 
is for information purposes only and should not be construed 
as, and shall not form part of an offer or solicitation to 
but or sell any securities.  Emgold Mining has
paid Gold Ridge a fee of US$20,000.00 for preparing and 
disseminating this information.


--------------------











GOLD RIDGE INVESTMENT CORP. ANNOUNCES:


GOLD MARKET RECOVERY 
GAINING STRENGTH - INVESTORS SHIFTING ATTENTION TO 
UNDERVALUED COMPANIES WITH 
WORLD-CLASS GOLD DEPOSITS 

EMGOLD MINING'S 100%-OWNED IDAHO-MARYLAND 
PROJECT HOSTS 2.97 MILLION OUNCE RESOURCE - TO BE DEVELOPED @ 
140,000 oz/yr @ 
US$215 / oz Au


EMGOLD MINING CORPORATION ("EMR" - 
VSE)
1610 - 777 Dunsmuir Street, P. O. Box 10435
Vancouver, BC  V7Y 
1K4  Canada
Phone: (604) 687 - 4622    Fax: (604) 687 - 
4212
Toll-Free:  (888) 267 - 1400
website:  http://www.emgold.com


Introduction



EMGOLD MINING CORP. has made significant progress in bringing the 
historic Idaho-Maryland gold mine to a production decision.  
Recent 
engineering studies indicate that less than half of the known 
gold has been 
extracted from the deposit, and that a 3,000,000 ounce resource 
remains to be 
mined.


History & Past Production



The Idaho-Maryland gold mine was discovered in 1851, and was 
in
nearly-continuous production from 1862 through 1956.  Total 
recorded 
production from the mine was 2,383,000 ounces of gold from 
5,546,000 tons of ore 
(0.43 oz/ton recovered grade).  When the mine closed in 1956 
due to 
escalating costs and the fixed price of gold of US$35/oz, mining 
operations were 
underway on 25 different faces on 6 different levels.


Large 
Mineralized System Defined - Extensive Infrastructure In Place
The 
Idaho-Maryland vein system is 9,000 feet long, up to 3,000 feet 
wide, and has 
been partially-mined from surface to the 2000 foot level.  
Access to the 
mine's 15 working levels is provided by the three-compartment, 
3,460-foot deep 
New Brunswick Shaft.  Over 70 miles of underground tunnels 
and workings 
provide access to much of the property.


A Three Million Ounce Gold 
Resource Has Been Defined….
A 1992 study by James Askew and Associates 
Inc. estimated that the
remaining gold resources and potential mineralization 
between the 2000 and 3280 levels of the Idaho-Maryland mine are 
9,117,500 ST @ 
0.326 oz Au/ST (containing 2,968,400 oz Au).  This resource 
estimate 
excludes the potential for large, bulk tonnage targets identified 
by EMGOLD in 
1997.  


Upside Potential:  3,000,000+ oz Au



Located within the wedge-shaped confines of three bounding 
faults, a 
3-D geologic model developed for the Idaho-Maryland mine 
demonstrates the 
potential for continuity of the existing vein system to a 
vertical depth of 
5,000 feet (the Idaho-Maryland mine is essentially unexplored 
below a depth of 
3,280 feet).

What is not widely known is that the adjoining Empire mine 
produced six million ounces of gold to a depth of 5,200 
feet!  This fact, 
combined with the knowledge that all mineralized structures 
developed on the 
lowest levels of the Idaho-Maryland mine remain open at depth, 
supports EMGOLD's 
belief that considerably more ore may exist at depth.


Development 
Program (1998 - 1999)



EMGOLD's plans for reviving the Idaho-Maryland mine are to first 
de-water the mine, and then go underground to do further 
exploration to prove up 
the total resource potential.   EMGOLD has applied for 
and been 
granted all permits necessary for re-opening the New Brunswick 
shaft, 
de-watering the mine and completing a bankable feasibility.


Potential 
Gold Production of at Least 140,000 oz / yr @ US$215 / oz Au 
EMGOLD plans to 
resume operations at the Idaho-Maryland mine at an initial mining 
rate of 1,500 
ST ore / day, which would produce approximately 140,000 ounces of 
gold per 
year.  With the addition of a second shaft, it may be 
possible to increase 
production to 5,000 ST/day - at this production level, the 
Idaho-Maryland mine 
would produce over 200,000 ounces of gold per year (on par with 
other major 
mines).

Recent studies indicate that the Idaho-Maryland mine could be 
profitably developed and operated at a long-term gold price of 
US$300/oz based 
on an estimated operating cost (excluding capital and royalties) 
of US$215 per 
ounce.  


Current Market Conditions



The current gold rally is gaining strength with each passing 
day!

In the past month, bullion prices have risen nearly 10%.  
Yesterday, the Philadelphia XAU gold and silver index closed at 
74.69, up 53% 
from its record low of 48.67 set in late August.

Mining stocks have 
regained favor with major Wall Street firms:  Merrill Lynch 
has initiated 
coverage of Placer Dome, Barrick, TVX and Kinross, while Bear 
Stearns has 
upgraded the recommendations of Asarco, Cyprus Amax and Phelps 
Dodge.

To 
a large extent, the market rebound has largely benefited the 
major
mining 
companies, whose share prices are now fully-valued (or even
over-valued) at 
current gold prices.  However, we believe that, as the
current rally 
continues, investors will increasingly seek out undervalued 
junior exploration 
and development companies with multi-million ounce gold 
deposits.


Opportunity for Investors



Trading at a tremendous discount to its fair market value, EMGOLD 
offers investors a low-risk investment opportunity in the current 
market
environment, and a chance to accumulate a significant position in 
a 
stock that can be expected to rally strongly as gold prices move 
above US$300 / 
oz. 

With just 11.5 million shares outstanding (14 million 
fully-diluted) 
and a
current share price of Cdn$0.28, the equity markets are valuing 
the
Idaho-Maryland gold mine at just Cdn$1.06 per ounce of gold 
(Cdn$1.35 / 
oz Au on a fully-diluted basis).  


EMGOLD's  Idaho-Maryland 
mine offers one of the best advanced exploration / developmental 
prospects 
available in North America.  With inferred resources of 
almost three 
million ounces, nearly one hundred years of operating history, an 
existing 
3,400-foot, three-compartment  shaft and 70+ miles of 
underground workings, 
EMGOLD has 100% control of a world-class gold project with the 
vast majority of 
the expensive infrastructure in place and ready to go.


For more 
information, please contact Andrew Hunter
toll-free at 1 - 888 - 267 - 1400



Disclaimer: The information contained herein has been 
compiled or derived from sources believed reliable and contains 
information and 
opinions which are accurate and complete.  However, Gold 
Ridge makes no 
representation or warranty, express or implied, in respect 
thereof, takes no 
responsibility for any errors and omissions which may be 
contained herein and 
accepts no liability whatsoever for any loss arising from any use 
or reliance 
upon this report or its contents.  The information provided 
is for 
information purposes only and should not be construed as, and 
shall not form 
part of an
offer or solicitation to but or sell any securities.  Emgold 
Mining has
paid Gold Ridge a fee of US$20,000.00 for preparing and 
disseminating this information.




NOTE: For those on the internet who do not want to recieve 
exciting messages 
such as this.....
* To be removed from our mailing list, simple send 
"remove" to the return address.

*We strive to comply with all state and federal laws and 
to send ads only to interested parties.

*This ad is not intended for nor do we knowingly 
send to Washington State residents. 



PRINT THIS AD FOR FUTURE CONSIDERATION!!


 
 
 
 
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Jack Oswald / CEO / RPK Security" 
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 18:48:42 -0700 (PDT)
To: RPK_Announcements@rpkusa.com
Subject: ANNOUNCEMENT: RPK SECURITY AWARDED PATENTS FOR ENCRYPTONITE ENGINE IN U.S. AND NEW ZEALAND
Message-ID: <199810010139.SAA22313@proxy3.ba.best.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


You have received this message because at some time in the past your name was submitted to our e-mail mailing list database.  If you do not wish (or no longer wish) to receive announcements, updates and news concerning the RPK Encryptonite Engine or the RPK InvisiMail e-mail security products, please forward this message to remove@rpkusa.com

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

MEDIA ALERT

CONTACT
Paula Miller						Lyn Oswald
Nadel Phelan, Inc.					RPK Security Inc.
408-439-5570 x277					212-488-9891
paulam@nadelphelan.com				lynoswald@rpkusa.com	


RPK SECURITY AWARDED PATENTS FOR ENCRYPTONITE ENGINE IN U.S. AND NEW ZEALAND

SAN FRANCISCO, CA. September 15, 1998 - RPK Security, Inc., a technology leader in fast public key encryption, today announced that the technology behind the company's uniquely fast public key cryptosystem, the RPK Encryptonite Engine, was awarded U.S. patent number 5,799,088 on August 25, 1998 and New Zealand patent number 277,128 on August 17, 1998.
 
Based on the proven mathematics of Diffie-Hellman Key Exchange, the RPK Encryptonite Engine combines all the benefits of other public key systems (authentication, digital signatures and digital certificates) with the speed of a secret key system into one algorithm. With the superior performance offered by RPK's Encryptonite Engine, applications requiring streaming data, sound, video or large numbers of transactions, such as credit card payments, receive instantaneous responses and secure communication links.

"We believe these patents give us a significant, unique and enforceable competitive advantage over other providers of public key encryption products," said Jack Oswald, president and CEO of RPK Security. "The RPK patents confirm our technology leadership in strong and fast public key cryptography."

With development and distribution facilities outside of the U.S., RPK Security is able to provide its customers with a worldwide strong encryption solution that is available globally, unlike competing products that are restricted by U.S. export regulations. 

ABOUT RPK SECURITY
Founded in 1995, RPK Security, Inc. is a technology leader in fast public key cryptography.  Its flagship RPK Encryptonite(tm) Engine, a uniquely fast and strong public key encryption technology, is available worldwide in custom hardware and software toolkits on multiple platforms.  Developed from widely accepted security mathematics and techniques, the RPK Encryptonite Engine is easily embedded into new and existing hardware and software applications.  RPK's cryptographic research and product development is based in New Zealand, Switzerland and the U.K, with worldwide sales and marketing operations in San Francisco, CA.  Visit RPK's website at www.rpkusa.com or call (212) 488-9891.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bubba219@mailexcite.com
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 08:44:03 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: MAJOR STOCK ALERT!!  A 3 MILLION GOLD RESOURCE  CONFIRMED!!
Message-ID: <199810011543.IAA02192@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



GOLD RIDGE INVESTMENT CORP. ANNOUNCES:


GOLD MARKET RECOVERY GAINING STRENGTH - 
INVESTORS SHIFTING ATTENTION TO UNDERVALUED 
COMPANIES WITH WORLD-CLASS GOLD DEPOSITS 

EMGOLD MINING'S 100%-OWNED IDAHO-MARYLAND 
PROJECT HOSTS 2.97 MILLION OUNCE RESOURCE - 
TO BE DEVELOPED @ 140,000 oz/yr @ US$215 / oz Au


EMGOLD MINING CORPORATION ("EMR" - VSE)
1610 - 777 Dunsmuir Street, P. O. Box 10435
Vancouver, BC  V7Y 1K4  Canada
Phone: (604) 687 - 4622    Fax: (604) 687 - 4212
Toll-Free:  (888) 267 - 1400
website:  http://www.emgold.com


Introduction

EMGOLD MINING CORP. has made significant progress 
in bringing the historic Idaho-Maryland gold mine 
to a production decision.  Recent engineering studies 
indicate that less than half of the known gold has been 
extracted from the deposit, and that a 3,000,000 ounce 
resource remains to be mined.


History & Past Production

The Idaho-Maryland gold mine was discovered in 1851, 
and was in nearly-continuous production from 1862 
through 1956.  Total recorded production from the mine 
was 2,383,000 ounces of gold from 5,546,000 tons of ore 
(0.43 oz/ton recovered grade).  When the mine closed in 
1956 due to escalating costs and the fixed price of gold 
of US$35/oz, mining operations were underway on 25 different 
faces on 6 different levels.


Large Mineralized System Defined - Extensive Infrastructure 
In Place The Idaho-Maryland vein system is 9,000 feet long, 
up to 3,000 feet wide, and has been partially-mined from 
surface to the 2000 foot level.  Access to the mine's 15 
working levels is provided by the three-compartment, 
3,460-foot deep New Brunswick Shaft.  Over 70 miles of 
underground tunnels and workings provide access to much 
of the property.


A Three Million Ounce Gold Resource Has Been Defined....
A 1992 study by James Askew and Associates Inc. estimated 
that the remaining gold resources and potential 
mineralization between the 2000 and 3280 levels of the 
Idaho-Maryland mine are 9,117,500 ST @ 0.326 oz Au/ST 
(containing 2,968,400 oz Au).  This resource estimate 
excludes the potential for large, bulk tonnage targets 
identified by EMGOLD in 1997.  


Upside Potential:  3,000,000+ oz Au

Located within the wedge-shaped confines of three 
bounding faults, a 3-D geologic model developed for 
the Idaho-Maryland mine demonstrates the potential 
for continuity of the existing vein system to a 
vertical depth of 5,000 feet (the Idaho-Maryland 
mine is essentially unexplored below a depth of 3,280 feet).

What is not widely known is that the adjoining Empire 
mine produced six million ounces of gold to a depth of 
5,200 feet!  This fact, combined with the knowledge that 
all mineralized structures developed on the lowest levels 
of the Idaho-Maryland mine remain open at depth, supports 
EMGOLD's belief that considerably more ore may exist at depth.


Development Program (1998 - 1999)

EMGOLD's plans for reviving the Idaho-Maryland mine are to 
first de-water the mine, and then go underground to do further 
exploration to prove up the total resource potential.   
EMGOLD has applied for and been granted all permits necessary 
for re-opening the New Brunswick shaft, de-watering the mine 
and completing a bankable feasibility.


Potential Gold Production of at Least 140,000 oz / 
yr @ US$215 / oz Au EMGOLD plans to resume operations at 
the Idaho-Maryland mine at an initial mining rate of 
1,500 ST ore / day, which would produce approximately 
140,000 ounces of gold per year.  With the addition of 
a second shaft, it may be possible to increase production 
to 5,000 ST/day - at this production level, the Idaho-Maryland 
mine would produce over 200,000 ounces of gold per year 
(on par with other major mines).

Recent studies indicate that the Idaho-Maryland mine could 
be profitably developed and operated at a long-term gold 
price of US$300/oz based on an estimated operating cost 
(excluding capital and royalties) of US$215 per ounce.  


Current Market Conditions

The current gold rally is gaining strength with each 
passing day!

In the past month, bullion prices have risen nearly 10%.  
Yesterday, the Philadelphia XAU gold and silver index 
closed at 74.69, up 53% from its record low of 48.67 
set in late August.
Mining stocks have regained favor with major Wall 
Street firms:  Merrill Lynch has initiated coverage of 
Placer Dome, Barrick, TVX and Kinross, while Bear Stearns 
has upgraded the recommendations of Asarco, Cyprus Amax 
and Phelps Dodge.

To a large extent, the market rebound has largely 
benefited the major mining companies, whose share 
prices are now fully-valued (or even
over-valued) at current gold prices.  However, we 
believe that, as the current rally continues, investors 
will increasingly seek out undervalued junior exploration 
and development companies with multi-million ounce gold deposits.


Opportunity for Investors

Trading at a tremendous discount to its fair market value, 
EMGOLD offers investors a low-risk investment opportunity 
in the current market environment, and a chance to accumulate 
a significant position in a stock that can be expected to 
rally strongly as gold prices move above US$300 / oz. 

With just 11.5 million shares outstanding (14 million 
fully-diluted) 
and a current share price of Cdn$0.28, the equity markets are 
valuing the Idaho-Maryland gold mine at just Cdn$1.06 per 
ounce of gold (Cdn$1.35 / oz Au on a fully-diluted basis).  


EMGOLD's  Idaho-Maryland mine offers one of the best advanced 
exploration / developmental prospects available in North America. 
 
With inferred resources of almost three million ounces, 
nearly one hundred years of operating history, an existing 
3,400-foot, three-compartment  shaft and 70+ miles of 
underground workings, EMGOLD has 100% control of a world-class 
gold project with the vast majority of the expensive 
infrastructure in place and ready to go.


For more information, please contact Andrew Hunter
toll-free at 1 - 888 - 267 - 1400



Disclaimer: The information contained herein has been 
compiled or derived from sources believed reliable and 
contains information and opinions which are accurate 
and complete.  However, Gold Ridge makes no representation 
or warranty, express or implied, in respect thereof, 
takes no responsibility for any errors and omissions 
which may be contained herein and accepts no liability 
whatsoever for any loss arising from any use or reliance 
upon this report or its contents.  The information provided 
is for information purposes only and should not be construed 
as, and shall not form part of an offer or solicitation to 
but or sell any securities.  Emgold Mining has
paid Gold Ridge a fee of US$20,000.00 for preparing and 
disseminating this information.


--------------------











GOLD RIDGE INVESTMENT CORP. ANNOUNCES:


GOLD MARKET RECOVERY 
GAINING STRENGTH - INVESTORS SHIFTING ATTENTION TO 
UNDERVALUED COMPANIES WITH 
WORLD-CLASS GOLD DEPOSITS 

EMGOLD MINING'S 100%-OWNED IDAHO-MARYLAND 
PROJECT HOSTS 2.97 MILLION OUNCE RESOURCE - TO BE DEVELOPED @ 
140,000 oz/yr @ 
US$215 / oz Au


EMGOLD MINING CORPORATION ("EMR" - 
VSE)
1610 - 777 Dunsmuir Street, P. O. Box 10435
Vancouver, BC  V7Y 
1K4  Canada
Phone: (604) 687 - 4622    Fax: (604) 687 - 
4212
Toll-Free:  (888) 267 - 1400
website:  http://www.emgold.com


Introduction



EMGOLD MINING CORP. has made significant progress in bringing the 
historic Idaho-Maryland gold mine to a production decision.  
Recent 
engineering studies indicate that less than half of the known 
gold has been 
extracted from the deposit, and that a 3,000,000 ounce resource 
remains to be 
mined.


History & Past Production



The Idaho-Maryland gold mine was discovered in 1851, and was 
in
nearly-continuous production from 1862 through 1956.  Total 
recorded 
production from the mine was 2,383,000 ounces of gold from 
5,546,000 tons of ore 
(0.43 oz/ton recovered grade).  When the mine closed in 1956 
due to 
escalating costs and the fixed price of gold of US$35/oz, mining 
operations were 
underway on 25 different faces on 6 different levels.


Large 
Mineralized System Defined - Extensive Infrastructure In Place
The 
Idaho-Maryland vein system is 9,000 feet long, up to 3,000 feet 
wide, and has 
been partially-mined from surface to the 2000 foot level.  
Access to the 
mine's 15 working levels is provided by the three-compartment, 
3,460-foot deep 
New Brunswick Shaft.  Over 70 miles of underground tunnels 
and workings 
provide access to much of the property.


A Three Million Ounce Gold 
Resource Has Been Defined….
A 1992 study by James Askew and Associates 
Inc. estimated that the
remaining gold resources and potential mineralization 
between the 2000 and 3280 levels of the Idaho-Maryland mine are 
9,117,500 ST @ 
0.326 oz Au/ST (containing 2,968,400 oz Au).  This resource 
estimate 
excludes the potential for large, bulk tonnage targets identified 
by EMGOLD in 
1997.  


Upside Potential:  3,000,000+ oz Au



Located within the wedge-shaped confines of three bounding 
faults, a 
3-D geologic model developed for the Idaho-Maryland mine 
demonstrates the 
potential for continuity of the existing vein system to a 
vertical depth of 
5,000 feet (the Idaho-Maryland mine is essentially unexplored 
below a depth of 
3,280 feet).

What is not widely known is that the adjoining Empire mine 
produced six million ounces of gold to a depth of 5,200 
feet!  This fact, 
combined with the knowledge that all mineralized structures 
developed on the 
lowest levels of the Idaho-Maryland mine remain open at depth, 
supports EMGOLD's 
belief that considerably more ore may exist at depth.


Development 
Program (1998 - 1999)



EMGOLD's plans for reviving the Idaho-Maryland mine are to first 
de-water the mine, and then go underground to do further 
exploration to prove up 
the total resource potential.   EMGOLD has applied for 
and been 
granted all permits necessary for re-opening the New Brunswick 
shaft, 
de-watering the mine and completing a bankable feasibility.


Potential 
Gold Production of at Least 140,000 oz / yr @ US$215 / oz Au 
EMGOLD plans to 
resume operations at the Idaho-Maryland mine at an initial mining 
rate of 1,500 
ST ore / day, which would produce approximately 140,000 ounces of 
gold per 
year.  With the addition of a second shaft, it may be 
possible to increase 
production to 5,000 ST/day - at this production level, the 
Idaho-Maryland mine 
would produce over 200,000 ounces of gold per year (on par with 
other major 
mines).

Recent studies indicate that the Idaho-Maryland mine could be 
profitably developed and operated at a long-term gold price of 
US$300/oz based 
on an estimated operating cost (excluding capital and royalties) 
of US$215 per 
ounce.  


Current Market Conditions



The current gold rally is gaining strength with each passing 
day!

In the past month, bullion prices have risen nearly 10%.  
Yesterday, the Philadelphia XAU gold and silver index closed at 
74.69, up 53% 
from its record low of 48.67 set in late August.

Mining stocks have 
regained favor with major Wall Street firms:  Merrill Lynch 
has initiated 
coverage of Placer Dome, Barrick, TVX and Kinross, while Bear 
Stearns has 
upgraded the recommendations of Asarco, Cyprus Amax and Phelps 
Dodge.

To 
a large extent, the market rebound has largely benefited the 
major
mining 
companies, whose share prices are now fully-valued (or even
over-valued) at 
current gold prices.  However, we believe that, as the
current rally 
continues, investors will increasingly seek out undervalued 
junior exploration 
and development companies with multi-million ounce gold 
deposits.


Opportunity for Investors



Trading at a tremendous discount to its fair market value, EMGOLD 
offers investors a low-risk investment opportunity in the current 
market
environment, and a chance to accumulate a significant position in 
a 
stock that can be expected to rally strongly as gold prices move 
above US$300 / 
oz. 

With just 11.5 million shares outstanding (14 million 
fully-diluted) 
and a
current share price of Cdn$0.28, the equity markets are valuing 
the
Idaho-Maryland gold mine at just Cdn$1.06 per ounce of gold 
(Cdn$1.35 / 
oz Au on a fully-diluted basis).  


EMGOLD's  Idaho-Maryland 
mine offers one of the best advanced exploration / developmental 
prospects 
available in North America.  With inferred resources of 
almost three 
million ounces, nearly one hundred years of operating history, an 
existing 
3,400-foot, three-compartment  shaft and 70+ miles of 
underground workings, 
EMGOLD has 100% control of a world-class gold project with the 
vast majority of 
the expensive infrastructure in place and ready to go.


For more 
information, please contact Andrew Hunter
toll-free at 1 - 888 - 267 - 1400



Disclaimer: The information contained herein has been 
compiled or derived from sources believed reliable and contains 
information and 
opinions which are accurate and complete.  However, Gold 
Ridge makes no 
representation or warranty, express or implied, in respect 
thereof, takes no 
responsibility for any errors and omissions which may be 
contained herein and 
accepts no liability whatsoever for any loss arising from any use 
or reliance 
upon this report or its contents.  The information provided 
is for 
information purposes only and should not be construed as, and 
shall not form 
part of an
offer or solicitation to but or sell any securities.  Emgold 
Mining has
paid Gold Ridge a fee of US$20,000.00 for preparing and 
disseminating this information.




NOTE: For those on the internet who do not want to recieve 
exciting messages 
such as this.....
* To be removed from our mailing list, simple send 
"remove" to the return address.

*We strive to comply with all state and federal laws and 
to send ads only to interested parties.

*This ad is not intended for nor do we knowingly 
send to Washington State residents. 



PRINT THIS AD FOR FUTURE CONSIDERATION!!


 
 
 
 
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Jack Oswald / CEO / RPK Security" 
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 23:22:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: ANNOUNCEMENT: RPK SECURITY AWARDED PATENTS FOR ENCRYPTONITE ENGINE IN U.S. AND NEW ZEALAND
Message-ID: <199810010614.XAA03563@proxy3.ba.best.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


You have received this message because at some time in the past your name was submitted to our e-mail mailing list database.  If you do not wish (or no longer wish) to receive announcements, updates and news concerning the RPK Encryptonite Engine or the RPK InvisiMail e-mail security products, please forward this message to remove@rpkusa.com

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

MEDIA ALERT

CONTACT
Paula Miller						Lyn Oswald
Nadel Phelan, Inc.					RPK Security Inc.
408-439-5570 x277					212-488-9891
paulam@nadelphelan.com				lynoswald@rpkusa.com	


RPK SECURITY AWARDED PATENTS FOR ENCRYPTONITE ENGINE IN U.S. AND NEW ZEALAND

SAN FRANCISCO, CA. September 15, 1998 - RPK Security, Inc., a technology leader in fast public key encryption, today announced that the technology behind the company's uniquely fast public key cryptosystem, the RPK Encryptonite Engine, was awarded U.S. patent number 5,799,088 on August 25, 1998 and New Zealand patent number 277,128 on August 17, 1998.
 
Based on the proven mathematics of Diffie-Hellman Key Exchange, the RPK Encryptonite Engine combines all the benefits of other public key systems (authentication, digital signatures and digital certificates) with the speed of a secret key system into one algorithm. With the superior performance offered by RPK's Encryptonite Engine, applications requiring streaming data, sound, video or large numbers of transactions, such as credit card payments, receive instantaneous responses and secure communication links.

"We believe these patents give us a significant, unique and enforceable competitive advantage over other providers of public key encryption products," said Jack Oswald, president and CEO of RPK Security. "The RPK patents confirm our technology leadership in strong and fast public key cryptography."

With development and distribution facilities outside of the U.S., RPK Security is able to provide its customers with a worldwide strong encryption solution that is available globally, unlike competing products that are restricted by U.S. export regulations. 

ABOUT RPK SECURITY
Founded in 1995, RPK Security, Inc. is a technology leader in fast public key cryptography.  Its flagship RPK Encryptonite(tm) Engine, a uniquely fast and strong public key encryption technology, is available worldwide in custom hardware and software toolkits on multiple platforms.  Developed from widely accepted security mathematics and techniques, the RPK Encryptonite Engine is easily embedded into new and existing hardware and software applications.  RPK's cryptographic research and product development is based in New Zealand, Switzerland and the U.K, with worldwide sales and marketing operations in San Francisco, CA.  Visit RPK's website at www.rpkusa.com or call (212) 488-9891.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: attila 
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 16:57:32 -0700 (PDT)
To: Undisclosed.recipients@hun.org
Subject: Re: IP: The virtual president
Message-ID: <199809302356.XAA01559@hun.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Tue, 29 Sep 1998, Lazlo Toth wrote:

>"Someone else," aka "Flagship" == "The People"?
>
>-Lazlo
>
    no, Lazlo...  don't be naive; "The People" dont have any say.

    "Someone else," aka "Flagship" == "Geo. Bush"

    I said (documented) in 1986 during Reagan's presidency:

	Geo. Bush will be the last American President to 
	complete his elected term of office.

    Geo. Bush had not yet been elected President...

	attila out...     	(Arkancide?)


    ~~~	absolutely incredible article; a perfect description and
	analysis of our Virtual President, Bill "Bubba" Clinton.
	and, hopefully he takes the Virtual Agenda Hillary with
	him.

	Missy Kelly deserves at least a Pulitzer prize for this one!
	and Joseph Farah, publisher of World News Daily, shows that 
	he has what it takes to lead the fourth estate.

	    attila out...   	(for real)

>
>
>At 5:21 PM -0700 9/28/98, you wrote:
>>From: Jean Staffen 
>>Subject: IP: The virtual president
>>Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 22:22:11 -0500 (CDT)
>>To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
>>
>>This is the most INCREDIBLE article.  I never thought I'd read something
>>like this in the mainstream media!!! -Jean
>>
>>
>>                   The virtual president=20
>>                 =20
>>
>>                   By Missy Kelly=20
>>                   Copyright 1998, WorldNetDaily.com=20
>>
>>                   "You know, by the time you become the leader of a
>>                   country, someone else makes all the decisions." -- Bill
>>                   Clinton September 4, 1998=20
>[snip]
>

__________________________________________________________________________
    go not unto usenet for advice, for the inhabitants thereof will say:
      yes, and no, and maybe, and I don't know, and fuck-off.
_________________________________________________________________ attila__





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Louis Archambault 
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 14:21:09 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks-announce@toad.com
Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: Bay Area Cypherpunks, Sat. Sept. 12, 12-6, KPMG  Mountain View
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980910170625.00cd8ec0@idiom.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980912172144.02cf4948@10.0.0.1>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


unsubscribe





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Denver Liu 
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 05:13:26 -0700 (PDT)
To: "cypherpunks-announce@toad.com>
Subject: unsubscribe
Message-ID: <199809121213.UAA10491@public.szonline.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


unsubscribe





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 02:21:03 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: another RSA tattoo
Message-ID: <199810141813.TAA30344@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text




Cancer Omega  sent me a nice RSA in perl tattoo
he has had done on the left of his chest.

See:

	http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/tattoo2.html

(and for the other tattoo see:

	http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/

)

Adam




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 02:32:45 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A1928471D@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate wrote:
> > Lightly? You jest.
> 
> No I don't. I can start a business for as little as $15 to 
> register a DBA and I don't need licenses or other sorts of 
> regulatory permissions.

And you would be stupid to expose yourself to full liability.

Regulation includes much more than licensing and registration. Try
hiring a couple employees, paying freelance individuals, setup office
space, get yourself a company car and do your fed income taxes. Lightly
regulated my ass. If they enforced every word of every code strongly and
literally it would be nearly impossible to conduct business.

> No we shouldn't. The fact that monopolies can exist in this 
> lightly regulated economy is ample evidence

Bullshit, monopolies exist because of the regulation.
 
> If you seriously think this is a heavily regulated market you 
> should do more research into such places as Nazi Germany, 
> Russia, China, etc.

Bullshit again, there is a *big* difference between a regulated market
(mixed capitalist/socialist economy) and a command economy. So because
we don't live in Soviet Russia we should all bend over and take it?

> Monopolies are monopolies, claiming that they will be less 
> abusive in a regulated market than in a free-market just 

Coercive power takes form via regulation. Without it a bad monopoly is a
short-lived one.

> You are claiming that if we do away with the food 
> regulations that McDonalds will be *more* concerned 
> about their meat being cooked thoroughly then you

Liability, liability, liability. Regulation often promotes bad practice
as businesses comply with minimum regulation and nothing more instead of
thinking for themselves. What is worse is government often shields
companies from liability.

> If a market monopolizes there is *NO* competition.

How do you prevent potential competition? Monopoly means both the
absence of existing and potential competition and alternatives.

> If the market is one that takes a large investment in 
> intellectual or capital materials then there
> won't be any opportunity to even attempt to start a 
> competitive venture.

A fluid capital market can finance even the largest of ventures if the
potential return is there. Different markets have different time
schedules, but competition can and will come.

Intellectual Property enforcement is an act of government, it is a force
monopoly, only just and reasonable IP laws limit it. Notice that, bad
laws = bad monopoly, good laws = balanced environment, no laws = no
monopoly. The last of which is not necessarily preferable in this case,
and is a fundamental difference in laissez-faire Vs anarchy.

> Fairness is about the consumer, not the manufacturer.

You have an odd definition of fair. You cannot have fair for the benefit
of one at the expense of another.

> Contractual with who?

With whomever is a part of the framework.

> > reputation for punishment instead of life and liberty, 
> 
> Businesses are neither alive nor do they enjoy liberty. Don't 
> confuse people with systems and objects.

No, do not strip the person from the businesses. A group of people do
not lose any of the rights and liberty of a single individual, neither
do they gain any. Businesses are people.

Commerce is a fundamental right, in order to survive you must be able to
create and dispose of that creation. The lack of the *individual's*
right to freely and easily pursue any and all business pursuits to any
degree is an act of enslavement of the individual to corporate
aristocracy and bureaucratic whim.

	Matt




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 03:28:37 +0800
To: Tim May 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981001011605.00821e50@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 10:06 PM 9/30/98 -0700, Tim May wrote:
>Think twice before citing this new law....
>Whatever one thinks about unsolicited e-mail, the provisions of this new
>California bill are frightening to any supporter of liberty.

Yeah - they aren't totally evil bills, in the sense that one shouldn't
ascribe to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity,
but they're both pretty bad, as well as vague and unclear.
On the other hand, if you're not willing to go to Sacramento to help
them make sausages, the way the anti-spammers are, it's harder to
justify bitching about the quality of sausage they're shoving down your throat.

>* and where does the "must have a toll-free number" bullshit come from?
>Think about it. It may sound _nice_ to demand that people have toll-free
>numbers, but where is the constitutional support for such a taking?

More precisely, Bowen's bad bill requires you to establish either a
toll-free number or sender-operated email address, and include on your
unsolicited commercial fax or email the toll-free number or an address 
to which the recipient can write or email.  Less precisely, it doesn't
say that the number has to be toll-free IN CALIFORNIA, or that you have to
answer calls to the phone number.

Both bills have serious problems with banning anonymity, and with clearly 
identifying when they apply, given the combinations of recipient, sender, 
recipient's ISP, recipient's email mailbox, sender's ISP, telecom provider, 
and probably other physical and corporate entities that can either be
inside or outside California - or both - with or without knowledge of the
sender, and with asserting jurisdiction over non-California-based senders,
and asserting that jurisdiction based on factors the sender may not know.

And then there's the lovely definition of "published" in one of the bills -
it applies if you violate the ISP's published anti-spamming policy.
They're (correctly) not required to _have_ an anti-spamming policy,
but if they have one, you're required to obey it if it's published,
either by putting it on their web page (pointed to from their home page),
or "available by mail for free on request".  Of course, if they don't
*have* a policy, they're under no obligation to send you a timely
printed version by snail-mail, so even leaving out the undue burden
of determining who a recipient's email provider and ISP are,
and determining whether they have an anti-spamming policy,
and what if means, you can't safely send your fine commercial
solicitation to lucky recipients whose ISPs *don't* have an 
anti-spam policy on their web page, because it might only be on paper.

On the other hand, you can send your spam from a spamhaus,
and if I read the bill correctly, the spamhaus is safe,
and probably the sender is also, especially if they're both
outside of California.  So it's not much protection against spammers.
(The language about policies of the recipient's ISP is vaguer,
and has more risk of legal weakness because there's no
legal contract between the sender and the recipient's ISP.)

Then of course, who really _sent_ the mail?  An anonymous user
of a spamhaus?  (That bad, bad person!)  What if he paid digicash,
or walked in and paid cash for an account?  What if it's not "he",
but "it", a corporation that got set up for $50, used for spamming,
and then obeys the laws by never spamming any complainers again, 
though its owners can start a new corporation the next day and burn it too,
perhaps even starting it off by selling it the list of complainers...




				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: HyperReal-Anon 
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 22:16:48 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Increase Your Paycheck Next Week
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Hello, asshole:

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wounds and feel the burn. If you are still conscious, superglue your little 
finger in a centrifuge and turn it on at maximum speed. If you are still
conscious, stick your head into a liquid nitrogen bath. All your coworkers
should repeat this procedure.

As an alternative, you can tie any coworkers you have up and bathe them in 
concentrated nitric acid while you shower them in NH4OH. Place your penis in
liquid nitrogen and then attempt to jack off. Finally, drink a concentrated
hydrochloric acid solution followed by concentrated sodium hydroxide
solution. In the unlikely event that you are able to do so, scream 'I AM THE
MASTER OF THE UNIVERSE!' over and over again while dancing until you pass out.

I wave to Interpol.

Hey Louis! What's shaking?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Forwarded spam:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Received: (from ichudov@localhost)
	by www.video-collage.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA01379
	for cypherpunks-outgoing; Wed, 30 Sep 1998 12:03:54 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from sirius.infonex.com (sirius.infonex.com [209.75.197.2])
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Received: from 152.202.71.131 (202-71-131.ipt.aol.com [152.202.71.131]) by cyberpass.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA07148 for ; Wed, 30 Sep 1998 09:08:07 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 09:08:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: 2001files@usa.net
Message-Id: <199809301608.JAA07148@cyberpass.net>
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Reply-To: business_ideas@usa.net
Subject: Increase Your Paycheck Next Week
Sender: owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Precedence: bulk
X-Mailing-List: cypherpunks@algebra.com
X-List-Admin: ichudov@algebra.com
X-Loop: cypherpunks@algebra.com
Status: RO
X-Status: 


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**************************************************************************
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: HyperReal-Anon 
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 21:19:06 +0800
To: Andreas.Poliza@golive.com
Subject: GoLive CyberStudio Trial Activation Key
Message-ID: <0c2e486375808b629a76c933d0374163@anonymous>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: HyperReal-Anon 
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 21:29:21 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: What is AOL
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Twenty1CC@aol.com had these pearls of wisdom:

>Found in rec.homor.funny.reruns

Yes, you are quite a rerun, but you aren't funny.

To answer your question, AOL is a haven for crackers, lamers, losers,
fakers, and posers like yourself.

You owe the Cypherpunks a video of your very violent and graphic death.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 19:59:42 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199810010100.DAA26700@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Subject: Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (and vague ideas for additions)

> I don't want government back doors in any software I use, but this
> kind of restriction is the wrong way to avoid them. The right way is
> through the GNU GPL,

You just pegged my bogometer.

The GNU GPL discourages the sale of proprietary software by prohibiting
anything using code covered by the license from being proprietary, and
that's right.

The proposed Cypherpunks license discourages the distribution of software
with key recovery (= government back doors) by prohibiting anything using
code covered by the license from having key recovery, and that's wrong.

Both these licenses would be trying to promote their propagators' goals
through restrictions on code re-use. However, Cypherpunks and GNU types
don't have exactly the same goals. GNU types consider the availability of
good, non-proprietary software to be paramount, whereas Cypherpunks
generally consider the use of good cryptography in useful applications to
be paramount, whether the code behind it is free or expensive, open-source
or proprietary (although proprietary code often ends up being bad crypto).
Companies will not put good crypto in useful applications if it
necessitates that they all but give up whatever intellectual property
rights they had to other parts -- even non-crypto-related parts -- of the
application, so the GPL is clearly not the best license for to promote
Cypherpunk goals.

On a different tangent, lemme suggest some vague ideas for a few potential
requirements:

Warnings about proprietary code: Authors of products using CPL-covered
code which do not release all source code must either a> clearly
demonstrate that none of the unreleased code can have a negative impact on
security or b> place a message on any marketing materials or documentation
mentioning the product's security features saying "For important warnings
about this product's security, see ."

CPL advert: Authors of products using CPL-covered code are required to
include with their copyright information some message like "This product
uses code covered by the Cypherpunk License for its security features. See
 for more information." and are requested to include references to
the site in other convenient places. This site, of course, need not be
limited to dry legalese about the license, but may include vivid
descriptions of driftnet wiretaps and other mischief perpetrated by NSA
and friends, cryptopolitical rants, or even tools for building and setting
up various cryptostuff. Note the "may;" lots of stuff requires lots of
work, and so, unless there was sort of backing from a civil-liberties
organization with staff-hours to spare or some miraculous effort of
miracle of organization...how's that secure talk client going?

Strength requirements: By default and taking into account only the
published attacks on the cryptographic primitives used, an average of at
least 2^79 operations must be required for anybody (law-enforcement or
not) to compromise the product's security features. If and only if laws
restrict this software's use or sale, a second version may be created with
lower strength, and the stronger version may operate at lower strength
when necessary for smooth interoperation, provided that the user knows
before sending any information that the connection uses weakened
encryption. The weaker version must be clearly marked as such (i.e.,
"Widget 2.4 Export" vs. "Widget 2.4").

Fact sheet: Authors of products using CPL-covered code are requested but
not required to create a sort of security fact sheet detailing the
technical aspects of the product's security features --

* algorithms and key lengths 
* a precise description of the breadth of the security features
* a description of the threat model used in the design process

-- and issues relating to trust in the product --

* authors of algorithms and code, if available
* the level of openness of the source 
* places to obtain whatever source was released 
* information on any independent analyses of the product's security 
* information on independent verifications of the fact sheet

-- followed by a summary placing this in more practical contexts. I'd
imagine any license including this would also include a form form the fact
sheets and some places to send them.

> which would enable people to check the source code of a modified
> version for anything suspicious.

Note that I'm only on one of the lists; Cc: replies to . :)




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Eric Young 
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 12:45:14 +0800
To: rms@gnu.org
Subject: Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code)
In-Reply-To: <199809301621.KAA09089@wijiji.santafe.edu>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




On Wed, 30 Sep 1998, Richard Stallman wrote:
> It isn't surprising that people who want to write non-free software
> are disappointed that the GNU project won't help them.  What is
> amazing is that they feel this is unfair.  They have no intention of
> letting me use their source code in my programs--so why should they be
> entitled to use my source code in their programs?  These people seem
> to think that their selfishness entitles them to special treatment.

:-) I always find this amusing myself.  If people have written code, they are,
by virtue of the fact they have actually done the work, able to enforce their
particular views on the world via their licence, be it a GNU, BSD, Netscape or
other form.  The problem sometimes occurs when people put their code out under
a licence they do not fully understand, and does not capture their intent.
I personally have a policy that if I ever change the licence conditions in any
of my code, the last version with the old licence will always be available for
those who don't like the new licence.  This way if my opinions on how the
software can be used changes, people don't have to suffer through my
'conversion to a new faith' :-).  The will only have access to the old stuff
under the licence they like.
 
> The GPL is my way of offering a certain kind of cooperation to anyone
> else who is willing to cooperate in the same way.

And the problem that some of us have with the GPL, in that it does take a
rather strong stance on this issue, making it incompatable with other people
who are not that passionate.

eric




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 22:03:09 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199810010255.EAA05178@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Why, if the ignition-controllers of cars are 
CPUs, aren't cars theftproof without a 
crypto-token?



David Honig
Irvine Design Teleoffice





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Brown, R Ken" 
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 05:47:22 +0800
To: warlord@MIT.EDU>
Subject: RE: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code)
Message-ID: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F8468@MSX11002>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



My computer alleges that  Derek Atkins[SMTP:warlord@MIT.EDU] wrote:


> The big issue I see with GPL and Crypto software is that with the
>  GPL you cannot add any redistribution restrictions.  The problem 
> is that due to the United States export rules, I cannot export 
> Crypto software, which means I must legally put a restriction on 
> any Crypto code I write.  But, this is a "further restriction" as far
> as the GPL is concerned.  This, in turn, means I cannot use the 
> GPL for Crypto software.

Surely the way round this is to take the "batteries not included" route?
Just use GPLed libraries or standalone modules. Or write your code in such a
way that some modules are GPLed and some aren't. Sell your modules & tell
people that they will need to get the GPL stuff through "normal channels".  

Of course, once outside the USA you are safe. Nobody *outside* the US cares
much about your export restrictions or absurd ideas about patenting software
anyway - although in many European countries, and certainly in UK, we take
copyright a lot *more* seriously than you. Copyright is widely seen as a
right, something that naturally belongs to the author or artist. In French
law they even talk about right of "paternity" in a text (part of "Droit
Moral")  even if you assign copyright to another person you are still
allowed to veto changes in it, your right is seen as inalienable, like  the
rights you have to your own person - copyright is part of personality, not
property. (This has been partly imported into English law as a a right to be
identified as the author, which has to be asserted, which you now nearly
always do). In France but not in England they also recognise the right to
withdraw a work  (although for some reason Stanley Kubrick seems to have
been able to withdraw the Clockwork Orange film in England, I don't
understand how) and the right of access to a work (an artist is allowed
access to a painting which has been sold to someone else). These things are
seen as part of personality. Just as in the US the law won't allow you to
sell yourself permanently to someone else (i.e. no slavery, even voluntary
slavery) but only rent yourself out  (employment) so in most of Europe you
can't really "sell" copyright, only rent it out.  But patents are to some
extent seen as government interference, as licensed monopoly. They tend to
be unpopular with everyone (except lawyers, inventors and pharmecutical
companies of course).

I suspect there are a lot of people who would have moral problems with
breaking someone else's software copyright but wouldn't give a dam about
breaking a software patent. An algorithm is an idea, and how can anyone own
an idea? (I'm talking morals here, not law - intersecting universes of
discourse, but not identical ones :-)

Ken Brown (and not his employers who respect patents greatly and would sack
me if I broke them at work. After all they own an awful lot of them...)




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 07:47:27 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810011234.HAA17960@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: Matthew James Gering 
> Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
> Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 00:30:14 -0700 

> And you would be stupid to expose yourself to full liability.

No, being a single proprietorship isn't stupid. It may not be something you
like but it isn't stupid. I will agree that depending on the size and type
of business it isn't always the best way, but then being a multi-national
incorporation isn't the best way to do local contract work for SOHO's (for
example) either.

> Regulation includes much more than licensing and registration. Try
> hiring a couple employees,

As long as it's only two I don't have to worry about federal regulations and
such, they only kick in when I hire 3 or more.

> paying freelance individuals,

Hand them their 1099's and they're out the door. I just pay them whatever I
agreed (gross before taxes) and the 1099 is *their* promise to deal with the
taxes.

> setup office space,

Sign a lease and wallah.

> get yourself a company car

All I need for that is a DBA, can even open bank accounts and get credit
cards in the company name with nothing but a DL and that DBA.

> and do your fed income taxes.

As a single proprietorship I do my taxes the same old way I always did them
except I must include the SE documents which only add a few pages. If I do
the contract work via 1099's (which says that the contractor is responsbile
for the taxes on that income) all I have to show is the gross amount paid to
that contract person.

> If they enforced every word of every code strongly and
> literally it would be nearly impossible to conduct business.

No, it wouldn't. For example I do contract work for small office - home
office companies (generaly 10 or less employees total). I write software,
install software, train, repair hardware, do upgrades, etc. and there are
literaly NO regulations at any level on those activities outside those
imposed by 1099's for sub-contractors (who work their own hours and must
provide their own tools) and the contract I and the customer agree to.
If I buy something for a customer I pass the receipt along to them and get
reimbursed for my time (on a seperate receipt) and the exact amount for the
items purchased (I am acting as their agent and not a reseller) so I don't
even need a tax number technicaly (since I don't pay state sales tax on
labor costs and am not selling them the items purchased). All I need is a
$15 DBA and a bunch of blank 1099's.

Why do cities and states require licenses on such things as air conditioning
or auto mechanics? Because for years there were no licenses required and
anybody could do it. After enough decades of scam artists, poorly run
business who cost customers money because they went out of business without
doing the work, or they did sub-standard (as defined by the practitioners of
that activity) work.

I challenge you to find an example where a state or federal regulation was
imposed before the industry matured.

> Bullshit, monopolies exist because of the regulation.

No, monopolies exist because people are greedy and want to own everything.
History is full of examples where industries were unregulated (ever read
Upton Sinclair?) and abused the employees and the market and as a result
regulation was imposed. It's interesting that free-market mavens never seem
to mention that the vast majority of monopoly examples occured *before*
industry regulation was imposed.

Even in the Microsoft case, it's only now that they've grown so big and
become so porous about information that the government has stepped in and
begun asking "has the industry matured to the point where continued
non-regulation is a detriment because it allows hording of industry
resources?"

Even if we were to de-regulate the clothing industry for example it is
highly unlikely that child labor and sweat shops would become less
prevalent. Of course I'd like to see your evidence to the contrary.

"Those who don't understand history are doomed to repeat it"

                                       Santyana

> Bullshit again, there is a *big* difference between a regulated market
> (mixed capitalist/socialist economy) and a command economy. So because
> we don't live in Soviet Russia we should all bend over and take it?

A regulated market is something that has regulation imposed from the
outside (ie besides the supplier and consumer). There are certainly
different kinds of regulated economies just like there are different kinds
of mammals. But to say that Zebra's aren't mammals because they don't look
like an Aardvark is a dis-serivice.

You, and every other free-market maven, have yet to demonstrate with
historical example that free-market works.

> Coercive power takes form via regulation. Without it a bad monopoly is a
> short-lived one.

Tell that to the rail-roads of the mid to late 1800's, the meat packing
industry of the late 1800's and early 1900's. The sweat houses of the
garment industry since the early 1800's, etc.

No sir, history doesn't support your proposition at all.

> Liability, liability, liability. Regulation often promotes bad practice
> as businesses comply with minimum regulation and nothing more instead of
> thinking for themselves. What is worse is government often shields
> companies from liability.

See above examples. Hell, take a look at the wet pet food market now for a
perfect example of why non-regulation is a bad thing and why liability and
other such buzz words don't work in the real world. And you were wondering
why your little toodles was loosing her hair, was always excited and
aggitated and has the health of a pet 3-4 years older than the chronological
age...

Bottem line, in a free market (no regulation other than consumer and
supplier) there are no controlling mechanisms and no recourse for the
consumer because they have nothing to demonstrate even an implied warranty
or liability of manufacturer (read software licenses to see how this can be
side stepped easily, hint: imagine a software license on the side of a can
of beans.).


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 07:41:35 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810011237.HAA18025@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: Matthew James Gering 
> Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
> Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 23:49:10 -0700

> > No Netscape on NT or 95/98 is no where near as stable as 
> > on a Linux or Solaris box (the two that I use most).
> 
> Correct me if I am wrong or if this has changed since they went
> open-source, but AFAIK Mozilla's Windows and Unix codebases were
> entirely independent and separately developed, so I'm not sure what
> conclusions you can draw from that.

I'd say the obvious one, the Unix code tree is more stable than the MS tree.

> Again, let's leave the OS wars off this list. I've had NT machines up
> for several months and down only for patches and upgrades.

As I have, but at nowhere near the load level that Unixes can support.
To get even near-mark performance requires larger hard drives, faster
processors, and way more ram (2x or more in many cases).


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 2001files@usa.net
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 09:41:16 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Greatest  MONEY Secret in  America
Message-ID: <199810011441.HAA27533@cyberpass.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 07:41:19 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!...
Message-ID: <199810011243.HAA18113@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Hi,

In regards the discussion about regulation and industry. I can think of only
one industry that was regulated before the very first company opened their
doors for business....nuclear power plants.

Personaly, 3 Mile Island in a un-regulated industry scares the hell out of
me...and I support nuclear power. Look at the fiasco of Chernobyl in a
control market.

I'd like to hear from any free market mavens who might want to use the
nuclear industry as an example of how things could be so much better with no
regulation regarding construction, operation, or waste disposal.

"Hey Sammy, just through those spent pellets in with the trash, those stupid
trash people don't know nothing...."


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 09:13:09 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: crypto on /.
Message-ID: <199810011413.JAA18337@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> X-within-URL: http://slashdot.org/

>    Senate considering Tax-Free Net Bill The Almighty Buck Posted by Hemos
>    on Thursday October 01, @08:48AM
>    from the bloody-well-approve-it dept.
>    Well, although the House of Representations passed it way back in
>    June, the US Senate is finally getting close to passing the bill which
>    would temporarily close the Internet to any new taxes. It will be
>    considered today. It has been twice blocked by Senator Bob Graham
>    (D-Florida), but Senator McCain (R-Arizona) has pushed it forward.

>    Ask Slashdot: Cryptography and Digital Signatures Encryption Posted by
>    Cliff on Wednesday September 30, @09:40PM
>    from the encryption-101 dept.
>    Jonathan Squire writes in with questions concerning encryption. He
>    writes: '...is it considered "secure" to generate an MD5 of a
>    passphrase and then use the MD5 hash as the key to an RC4 cypher of a
>    message/file that you want to send to someone? What are the
>    implications of sending some alternative file with the same pass
>    phrase used if someone who does not know the pass phrase is able to
>    obtain both of the cyphertexts? What if they obtain both cyphertexts
>    and one clear text, how hard would it be (computationaly/finacially)
>    for them to derive the passphrase that was used?'   There's more!
>    Click the link below...

>    Investigating Echelon Encryption Posted by Hemos on Wednesday
>    September 30, @02:29PM
>    from the white-or-black-spy dept.
>    It appears that the European Parliment is going to attempt to
>    investigae Echelon, the somewhat mystical eavesdropping entity that is
>    supposed to be able to listen to all Continental communications. This
>    article gives a great amount of detail about what it is alleged to
>    be, but apparently it's run by five security agencies, including the
>    NSA, and can intercept almost anything. I'd love to have this rig at
>    home. updated


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ben Laurie 
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 04:28:40 +0800
To: rms@gnu.org
Subject: Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code)
In-Reply-To: <199809281845.TAA18662@server.eternity.org>
Message-ID: <36134ACF.A09E1263@algroup.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Richard Stallman wrote:
> It isn't surprising that people who want to write non-free software
> are disappointed that the GNU project won't help them.  What is
> amazing is that they feel this is unfair.  They have no intention of
> letting me use their source code in my programs--so why should they be
> entitled to use my source code in their programs?  These people seem
> to think that their selfishness entitles them to special treatment.

a) Who ever said this was unfair?

b) Several of the people who are complaining are about the GPL are not
people who want to use GPLed software, but people who want to release
their software under a free licence and think GPL isn't the right one.

c) In my experience GPL stops many companies from even considering using
code. A less restrictive licence gets it through the door, and they
later come to understand the benefit of freeing the source, even though
they are not obliged to. OK, so sometimes we lose under this scheme, but
sometimes we gain. 

d) As far as I can work out, someone who wants to free part of a
product, but not all of it, can't practically do so under GPL.

Cheers,

Ben.

-- 
Ben Laurie            |Phone: +44 (181) 735 0686| Apache Group member
Freelance Consultant  |Fax:   +44 (181) 735 0689|http://www.apache.org/
and Technical Director|Email: ben@algroup.co.uk |
A.L. Digital Ltd,     |Apache-SSL author     http://www.apache-ssl.org/
London, England.      |"Apache: TDG" http://www.ora.com/catalog/apache/

WE'RE RECRUITING! http://www.aldigital.co.uk/




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 12:45:59 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!...
In-Reply-To: <199810011243.HAA18113@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 5:43 AM -0700 10/1/98, Jim Choate wrote:
>Hi,
>
>In regards the discussion about regulation and industry. I can think of only
>one industry that was regulated before the very first company opened their
>doors for business....nuclear power plants.
>
>Personaly, 3 Mile Island in a un-regulated industry scares the hell out of
>me...and I support nuclear power. Look at the fiasco of Chernobyl in a
>control market.
>
>I'd like to hear from any free market mavens who might want to use the
>nuclear industry as an example of how things could be so much better with no
>regulation regarding construction, operation, or waste disposal.

"Regulation" of the nuclear power industry had the predicted effect of
overly conservative designs being standardized. Specifically, the
Westinghouse boiling water designs, basically frozen in 1955 and little
changed since then.

Ordinary evolutionary improvement, plus revolutionary improvement, has not
been possible. (Some examples would include inherently fail-safe designs
like the Canadian CANDU reactor, and various improvements the French have
made in the original Westinghouse design.)

Waste disposal is even more of an example of a government-worsened problem.
If politicians were not grandstanding about the dangers of nuclear waste
and monkeywrenching plans, we'd have waste disposal sites.

(For example, there is no plausible evidence that storing waste in caverns
in dry desert areas in Nevada, California, New Mexico, etc. is dangerous.
And certainly better in all regards than storing waste in drums sitting in
places like Hanford, Washington, near the Columbia River. Etc.)

Personally, I favor the "Pournelle Solution": acquire a 10-mile by 10-mile
region of the Mojave Desert. Not in an "ecologically interesting" area of
Death Valley, but just out in the vast scrublands. Erect a double fence
around it, and perhaps even a minefield (if one is worried about thefts of
nuclear waste). Pile the spent fuel rods, medical gear, gloves, etc. on
pallets separated  by wide roads from other pallets. This "solves" the
waste problem for at least a matter of many decades, by which time various
technologies will likely have presented other and better solutions. Cost is
low, convenience is high, safety is good, environmental polllution is nil.

Finally, the "environmental burden" imposed by a coal-fired power plant is
vastly greater than that from a nuclear plant. Do the math on particulates,
carbon levels, etc. Many libertarians have proposed better schemes for
dealing with such environmental burdens....if fossil fuel-powered plants
had to actually pay their share of environmental costs, they'd be even more
expensive than nuclear.

Face it, nuclear has failed in the U.S. because of yahoos who think their
children will be mutated or something along those lines. (I dealt with
these yahoos at Intel when my lab was using a lot of radioactive sources.)

Cypherpunks is not the place to debate nuclear power, but I had to answer
these claims.


--Tim May

Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash.
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 04:53:17 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Why is the world not perfect?
Message-ID: <199810010850.KAA00389@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Anonymous wrote:
> Why, if the ignition-controllers of cars are
> CPUs, aren't cars theftproof without a
> crypto-token?

The bastards (a term which collectively includes insurance companies,
police, car manufacturers and a host of others) make vast amounts of
money on the basis that your car is stolen regularly.

Scheduled Disasters are good for business. Whoever it was who had the
idea for a Y2K bug is currently minting it.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 12:51:31 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: [RRE]Conference: Technological Visions
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




>The Problems and Potentials of Prediction
>Privacy and Censorship
>Communities of Place and Cyberspace
>Media Discourse on New Technology
>Technological Visions
>
>Confirmed Participants:
>
>John Perry Barlow, Lord Asa Briggs, Richard Chabran, Bob Cringely,
>Wendy Grossman, Katie Hafner, Larry Irving, Peter Lyman, Carolyn
>Marvin, David Nye, Mitchel Resnick, Romelia Salinas, Vivian
>Sobchack, Lynn Spigel, Sherry Turkle, Langdon Winner, Philip
>Zimmermann

Mostly journalists and scribblers. Typical. Journalists yakking with other
journalists on the same boring panels.

As with the 24/7 coverage of the Lewinsky matter on CNN, MSNBC, CNBC, Fox,
and other networks, it is mostly journalists pontificating with other
journalists.

Oddly, though, this one is not in the usual place, Washington, D.C.

--Tim May



Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash.
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 10:45:47 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: early reports from Austria: possible crypto stalemate (fwd)
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 03:04:38 -0300 (ADT)
From: M Taylor 
To: cryptography@c2.net
Subject: early reports from Austria: possible crypto stalemate (fwd)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Sender: owner-cryptography@c2.net


---------- Forwarded message ----------
Sender: efc-talk-owner@insight.cas.mcmaster.ca
Subject: early reports from Austria: possible crypto stalemate
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 17:48:20 -0400 (EDT)
To: efc-talk@insight.cas.mcmaster.ca
From: David Jones 

Brief Crypto update:

Sources in Vienna, Austria, where the current Wassenaar negotiations
have been taking place, seem to indicate that there have been no
changes on international crypto policy.  This is generally regarded
as a "good sign", since it means the hard liners (Russia, US, France, UK, NZ)
haven't been successful, and those countries advocating a more liberal
policy may be sticking to their positions.

The next time int'l crypto policy is to be formally negotiated
is apparently early in December.

-- djones@efc.ca


P.S. If anyone happens to be fluent in German, maybe you could help us
     by translating, or summarizing, in English:

	http://www.mediaweb.at/akmg/news/wassenaar.html

----------------

(via babelfish)
http://babelfish.altavista.digital.com/cgi-bin/translate?urltext=http%3A%2F%2Fww
w.mediaweb.at%2Fakmg%2Fnews%2Fwassenaar.html&lp=de_en

In my very brief summary: it appears that a stalemate was reached in
regards to the public domain exemption ("General Software Note" in Canada)
of cryptography. The heavyweights (US, UK, France, Russia) want to remove
it while others (much of Europe?, Canada?) want to preserve it.

There is also mention of key-escrow, but I'm not certain if that is tied
to the Wassenaar Agreement talks.

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 10:49:36 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Oct 2 column - take them shooting
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Resent-Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 00:29:27 -0600
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 23:22:06 -0700 (PDT)
X-Sender: vin@dali.lvrj.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
To: vinsends@ezlink.com
From: Vin_Suprynowicz@lvrj.com (Vin Suprynowicz)
Subject: Oct 2 column - take them shooting
Resent-From: vinsends@ezlink.com
X-Mailing-List:  archive/latest/563
X-Loop: vinsends@ezlink.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vinsends-request@ezlink.com


    FROM MOUNTAIN MEDIA
    FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE DATED OCT. 2, 1998
    THE LIBERTARIAN, By Vin Suprynowicz
    'And every other terrible implement of the soldier'

    One of the great pleasures of collecting and restoring old firearms is
hauling them out to the range and letting a visitor find out just how good
some of our grandfathers' military engineering really was.

  It can be an even greater pleasure to introduce someone who's previously
been a "Second Amendment agnostic" to the exhilaration that comes with
learning how to safely and effectively handle these historic tools of
freedom. Suddenly some appreciation dawns of what it must have been like to
stand with the Minutemen on that town green in Lexington, or to dig the mud
or snow out of your action, slam in a clip, and carefully squeeze off eight
aimed rounds of 30.06 from the unstoppable Garand.

  These old-timers aren't dainty target rifles. You slam them closed with
the butt of your hand. The weight of steel across your arms, the crack of
bullets breaking the sound barrier (even through modern ear protection) are
sobering. Then, once the newcomer develops that cake-eating grin that comes
when you confirm it was him -- not the wind -- that really knocked down
those cans at 60 yards, you point waaaay down the wash, and explain that
the average infantryman was expected to hit a man-sized target over there,
at 300 yards ... that a marksman was expected to do so at 800.

  "You mean you can hit something out (start ital)there(end ital)? I can't
even (start ital)see(end ital) what's out there."

  "Yes. And I also mean that any trained soldier out there ... can hit you."

  Suddenly all this talk about banning "assault rifles" with "magazines
that hold more than 10 rounds," or rifles with bayonet lugs or flash hiders
(yes, that's why that collector's piece you're holding has been emasculated
with a hacksaw, like an antique table imported with only three legs) start
to come into focus.

  "They made them import this SKS without a bayonet? But they're obviously
designed to carry the folding bayonet, like this older one here. Without it
the cleaning rod rattles around and falls out. And how the heck does taking
off the bayonet make the weapon any less deadly in a shoot-out? Who thinks
up this stuff?"

  Any American can still learn to shoot safely, and then teach one more
person, and then another. It's wonderfully subversive.

  Recently, a fellow who I took out was moved to recall that his father had
qualified as a marksman in the army, but had died before he was able to
teach his son that skill. So pleased was he to start re-learning his
father's skill that he insisted on buying me dinner, to compensate me for
my ammo costs. Two weeks later, the lad who grew up without a father won
the Republican primary, and now stands a good chance of becoming our next
congressman. Good luck selling your victim-disarmament bill of goods to him
now, Ms. Feinstein, Mr. Schumer.


  #   #   #

  Of course, the downside of hauling a collection of arms out to the range
always faced you that evening, when a half-dozen rifles leaned waiting
against the wall, and you started figuring how long you were about to spend
with cleaning rods, powder solvent, jags and patches.

  (And if you find a woman who loves the smell of Hoppe's powder solvent in
her living room, fellows, marry her straight off.)

  Since this has been the fate of the rifleman for centuries, I will admit
it was with the standard "Yeah, right" that I first noticed an ad in one of
the firearms tabloids a few months back for a new product modestly named
the "World's Fastest Gun Bore Cleaner," a patented rayon pull-through cord
with phosphor-bronze bristles braided right into the front. Everyone knows
the only way to clean a rifle barrel is to brush it out with a cleaning
rod, run through cotton patches soaked in solvent, and then run through dry
patches to remove the black soot, repeating again and again in a
semi-hypnotic ritual of devotional labor. Pull some fancy cord once through
the gun and rack it away? Ha!

  Then I dropped by the Soldier of Fortune Expo here in Las Vegas last
month, and spotted a table full of these things, manned by the inventor,
who explained how he got to wondering -- as he was clearing out some
varmints in the frozen wilds of Idaho, cold enough to freeze your fingers
to the barrel -- why in this day of space-age materials no one had invented
a device that would clean a rifle barrel with one pull, no bent or broken
steel rods to haul around, no gouging of the rifle's delicate crown, no
chemicals.

  I bought one of the things -- which you can roll up and carry in your
shirt pocket -- and Bruce Hedge made me a gift of a second one to fit my
pistols (the Bore Cleaner is sized precisely by caliber), my total
"compensation" for this rare and unsolicited product endorsement.

  Because, you see, they work. After that precision-sized brush stutters
through (you want it to stutter -- that means the bristles aren't lying
over sideways because they're too long), the braided cord swipes your lands
and grooves with a surface area equivalent to 160 cotton patches. And when
the cord is dirty, you just wash it out in soapy water, to the tune of 200
to 500 uses.

  Mr. Hedge's biggest problem? Other than finding enough salesmen to move
his product, and butting up against some out-of-date military specs that
are so far keeping our men in uniform from capitalizing on this
breakthrough, that would be "setting aside the $100,000 we figure we're
going to need to protect the patent."

  As the man said, "This changes everything."

  The "World's Fastest Gun Bore Cleaner" is from National Tech-Labs, 5200
Sawyer, Suite H, Boise, Idaho 83714; tel. 208-345-5674. If you shoot, you
want some.

   #   #   #

"Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, (start
ital)and every other terrible implement of the soldier(end ital), are the
birth-right of an American." -- Tench Coxe, prominent Federalist and friend
of James Madison, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788.


Vin Suprynowicz is the assistant editorial page editor of the Las Vegas
Review-Journal. Readers may contact him via e-mail at vin@lvrj.com.

***



Vin Suprynowicz,   vin@lvrj.com

The evils of tyranny are rarely seen but by him who resists it. -- John
Hay, 1872

The most difficult struggle of all is the one within ourselves. Let us not
get accustomed and adjusted to these conditions. The one who adjusts ceases
to discriminate between good and evil.  He becomes a slave in body and
soul. Whatever may happen to you, remember always: Don't adjust! Revolt
against the reality! -- Mordechai Anielewicz, Warsaw, 1943

* * *

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 10:53:33 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Canada's Crypto Policy
Message-ID: <199810011545.LAA05835@camel7.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Thanks to MC Taylor for pointing we offer a speech
today by Canada's Minister of Industry on a new
cryptography policy:

   http://jya.com/ca-crypto.htm  (16K)

It has links to several sites with related policies in the
works.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 12:13:47 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: [RRE]Conference: Technological Visions
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



PhilZ Pontificates. Philm at 11.

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga

--- begin forwarded text


Mime-Version: 1.0
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 21:43:09 -0800
To: "Red Rock Eater News Service" 
From: duguid@socrates.berkeley.edu (Paul Duguid)
Subject: [RRE]Conference: Technological Visions
Sender: 
Precedence: Bulk
List-Subscribe: 

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
This message was forwarded through the Red Rock Eater News
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the From: field below.  You are welcome to send the message along to
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Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 23:41:21 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Kearney 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 13:11:09 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!... (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810011813.NAA19365@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 10:46:05 -0700
> From: Tim May 
> Subject: Re: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!...

My original quote:

> >I'd like to hear from any free market mavens who might want to use the
> >nuclear industry as an example of how things could be so much better with no
> >regulation regarding construction, operation, or waste disposal.

Partial quote of Tim:

> "Regulation" of the nuclear power industry had the predicted effect of
> overly conservative designs being standardized. Specifically, the
> Westinghouse boiling water designs, basically frozen in 1955 and little
> changed since then.
> 
> Ordinary evolutionary improvement, plus revolutionary improvement, has not
> been possible. (Some examples would include inherently fail-safe designs
> like the Canadian CANDU reactor, and various improvements the French have
> made in the original Westinghouse design.)

Ok. I agree that over-regulation is bad. CCCP, China, Cuba, etc. are clear
examples of how over-regulation is a failure.

However, my question was to defend the free-market position that *no*
regulation provides an improved environment for (in this case) reactor
design.

Apples and oranges...


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: jenny672@usa.net
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 15:30:49 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Been there....Done that....
Message-ID: <199810012014.NAA03876@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Dear Friend,


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*******************************************************************
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*******************************************************************
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*********************************************************************

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*********************************************************************

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************************************************************************

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40 Newport Pkwy
Apt. 214
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*******************************************************************
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "X" 
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 14:40:27 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer" 
Subject: Rain in Death Valley
In-Reply-To: <199810011932.OAA20010@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <000001bded72$f7c55000$8a2580d0@ibm>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



If the area you refer to is below sea-level, where would the hard-rains
runoff run off to?

X

~> -----Original Message-----
~> From: owner-cypherpunks@minder.net
~> [mailto:owner-cypherpunks@minder.net]On Behalf Of Jim Choate
~> Sent: Thursday, October 01, 1998 1:32 PM
~> To: Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer
~> Subject: Re: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!... (fwd)
~>
~>
~> Forwarded message:
~>
~> > Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 21:22:24 +0200
~> > From: Anonymous 
~> > Subject: Re: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!...
~>
~> > > Personally, I favor the "Pournelle Solution": acquire a
~> 10-mile by 10-mile
~> > > region of the Mojave Desert. Not in an "ecologically
~> interesting" area of
~>
~> As was pointed out it does rain out there. Though there is a
~> more insidious
~> issue that makes such attempts worthless.
~>
~> Here's how it works...
~>
~> Humidity in the air settles on the materials. Because of the daily
~> temperature extremes the expansion of this water causes the materials to
~> break into very small particles. The wind comes along and
~> transports these
~> particles downwind.
~>
~> I'll leave the rest to your imagination and a couple of hours
~> with a geology
~> text on erosion.
~>
~>
~>     ____________________________________________________________________
~>
~>                             The seeker is a finder.
~>
~>                                      Ancient Persian Proverb
~>
~>        The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
~>        Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
~>        www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
~>                            -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
~>     --------------------------------------------------------------------
~>
~>




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 17:16:07 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A1928471F@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate wrote:
> I'd say the obvious one, the Unix code tree is more stable 
> than the MS tree.

Sure, but does that mean the MS platform was less suitable than Unix, or
their MS platform programmers were inferior to their Unix counterparts.
I believe Netscape outsourced the Unix development, at least initially.
I would blame insufficient SQA at Netscape, and from what I've heard
that claim is justified.

	Matt




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 14:18:56 +0800
To: Matthew James Gering 
Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A19284710@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 5:25 PM -0500 9/30/98, Matthew James Gering wrote:
>Petro wrote:
>> >> Had Microsoft, for example, been required to publish their
>> >> API's by the market we wouldn't be spending all this effort
>>    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>
>> >You state free-market and then you are *requiring* someone to
>> >do something? How do you resolve that contradiction? Require
>> >= Force != Free[dom]
>>
>> Required as in purchasers large and small saying "You
>> don't include your source code, we won't buy it".
>
>*Require* per say is a bad term for the use of economic power. But the
>market didn't "require" Microsoft to do so (see Microsoft's financial
>statements), so why should the government step in and force something
>that is contrary to the market?

	I never said they should, however in this case I will make the
arguement that the Feds DID have something to do with creating the
Jaggernaut called M$, and that they could also fix Billys little redmond
wagon without a court case shoud they wish.

	Again, for those on the list who can't read clearly, I DON'T THINK
THE DOJ SUIT IS PROPER, I am against it.

	Of course that is true of most government "actions".

>The rest of Jim's sentence read "we wouldn't be spending all this effort
>and money on the current [Department of Justice] proceedings."
>
>Which tells me that require means certain segments of the market telling
>Microsoft you will do this or we will fuck you over with the borrowcrats
>we own, which is exactly what has happened. The elements lacked
>sufficient economic power to sway Microsoft, and they lacked sufficient
>political power until they ganged up together. A loose coalition to gain
>via use of DOJ antitrust force what they good not gain in a free market.
>That is political power, not economic.
>What is rather ironic is that the same Antitrust laws they are trying to
>bash Microsoft with are what prevented them from forming an economic
>(instead of under-the-table political) coalition that could have made
>Microsoft change its practices without resorting to non-free-market
>forces.

	Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't almost all Federally owned
desktop computers PCs?

	Aren't there certain departments/divisions in the governement that
only accept electronic files if they are in "word" format? (i.e. the DoD,
but I don't have a site for that, so I could be mistaken).

	I know that I've never seen a Military Computer (desktop kind) that
wasn't a Wintel/Dos machjne (talking general purpose computer here, not a
targeting machine etc.)

	Sell a couple hundered thousand units to the Feds, and that is a
considerable dent in the "level playing field" of the free market.
--
petro@playboy.com----for work related issues. I don't speak for Playboy.
petro@bounty.org-----for everthing else.      They wouldn't like that.
                                              They REALLY
Economic speech IS political speech.          wouldn't like that.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: M Taylor 
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 12:09:52 +0800
To: efc-talk@efc.ca
Subject: [Cdn] Cryptography Policy Discussion Paper: Analysis of Submissions
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



An analysis of responses to The Canadian Cryptography Policy Discussion
Paper (http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/SSG/cy00005e.html)

Prepared by:    AEPOS Technologies Corporation
Prepared for:   Industry Canada
Originator :    AEPOS Technologies Corporation
                116 Albert St. Suite 601
                Ottawa, Ontario
                K1P 5G3

Date :          15 September, 1998

English: http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/SSG/cy01156e.html
French: http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/SSGF/cy01156f.html


It appears is light of today's announcement

by John Manley, Minister of Industry, that domestic cryptography will
bloom, but the export of Canadian crypto is not yet clear. I suspect the
Wassenaar negotiations will determine whether the free export of "public
domain" and mass market software will continue for Canadians. As an
exporter, I hope so.

-mctaylor
--
M Taylor   mctaylor@  /  glyphmetrics.ca | privacy.nb.ca






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mok-Kong Shen 
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 08:18:24 +0800
To: coderpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source co	de)
In-Reply-To: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F8468@MSX11002>
Message-ID: <36137FFC.E0A860AB@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Brown, R Ken wrote:
> 
> I suspect there are a lot of people who would have moral problems with
> breaking someone else's software copyright but wouldn't give a dam about
> breaking a software patent. An algorithm is an idea, and how can anyone own
> an idea? (I'm talking morals here, not law - intersecting universes of
> discourse, but not identical ones :-)

But sadly in matters of law there are software patents and particularly
in cryptography. One may have different opinions on crypto patents
and endlessly debate on them. My personal opinion is that the
benefits of crypto patents do not outweigh their negative impacts
on the development and use of cryptography especially in view of 
the fact that a number of governments intend to suppress civilian 
usage of strong crypto with all means that they can think of.

I think that claiming copyright is a good idea, since one retains
some kind of control over the stuff that one creates. One can then 
say that copying is allowed for certain usages but disallowed in 
others. (As far as I know copying some pages from a book, but not
the whole, for scientific purposes is free generally.) 

M. K. Shen




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 14:30:25 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: advertisement (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199810010059.TAA15358@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 7:59 PM -0500 9/30/98, Jim Choate wrote:

>
>Computers are *supposed* to make our lives *easier*. Some folks seem to have
>forgotten this.

	It's making the spammers lives easier.
--
petro@playboy.com----for work related issues. I don't speak for Playboy.
petro@bounty.org-----for everthing else.      They wouldn't like that.
                                              They REALLY
Economic speech IS political speech.          wouldn't like that.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Kevin Elliott 
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 14:34:54 +0800
To: Cypherpunks 
Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A1928471D@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Said Matthew James Gering,

>Bullshit, monopolies exist because of the regulation.

I'm afraid sir, that your ingonorance is showing.  Pick up any college
(hell, high school) ecomonics textbook.  Certain types of businesses are
inheritly advantagious to monopolies.  The electric company is the classic
example- their is no cost effective way for an electric company to supply
power to a given area unless it is a monopoly.  Certain types of businesses
are suited to certain types of competition, and, unregulated, monopolies
are exactly what you get.  This was exactly the situation that occured at
the turn of the century and it happened because regulation was
non-existant!  Your statement is wonderfully trite but I see no evidence to
support it.



___________________________________________________________________________
"DOS/WIN based computers manufactured by companies such as IBM, Compaq,
Tandy, and millions of others, are by far the most popular, with about 70
million machines in use worldwide. Macintosh fans, on the other hand, note
that cockroaches are far more numerous than humans, and that numbers alone
do not denote a higher life form." - New York Times

-Kevin "The Cubbie" Elliott 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Steve Bryan 
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 14:27:57 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: [RRE]Conference: Technological Visions
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash.

If you reformat the drives, there's no need to empty the trash.

Steve Bryan
Vendorsystems International
email: sbryan@vendorsystems.com
icq: 5263678
pgp fingerprint: D758 183C 8B79 B28E 6D4C  2653 E476 82E6 DA7C 9AC5





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 14:41:05 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199810010207.VAA15977@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 9:07 PM -0500 9/30/98, Jim Choate wrote:
>Forwarded message:
>
>> From: Matthew James Gering 
>> Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
>> Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 18:24:02 -0700
>
>> Jim Choate wrote:
>> > The reality is that we don't live in a free-market, but
>> > rather a rather lightly regulated one.
>>
>> Lightly? You jest.
>
>No I don't. I can start a business for as little as $15 to register a DBA
>and I don't need licenses or other sorts of regulatory permissions. If I
>sell a product or service (some are exempt, check your local area) I'll need
>a tax number to pay my state sales tax (though they do nothing to regulate
>my business other than specify that I must pay x% of my sales to the
>community). Getting that tax number is free. Outside of that (at least in
>Texas) I'm ready to go.

	That does not apply to very many business at all. Most are rather
heavily regualted, and state regulations in some places can be extremely
onerous.

>Yep, that's a lot of regulation, no forms or permission slips from some
>in loco parentis, no reports or annual fees.

	Unless you have a partner, or an employee, or a need to incorporate.

>> No, we certainly don't live in a free market, we have
>> a mixed economy. We *should* have a free market,
>
>No we shouldn't. The fact that monopolies can exist in this lightly
>regulated economy is ample evidence that the non-regulated or free-market
>theory is nothing more than another pie-in-the-sky utopian dream.
>Unrealistic and unrealizable.

	Crap. In most cases monopolies are GIFTS from the government, where
they  aren't they are either (a) natural monopolies (were the market is too
small to support competition, or there is some other feature of that market
which makes competition difficult or undesirable) there aren't too many of
these, or places where the government (city, state, fed) felt a monopoly
would be of benefit to the citizens. I.e. Gas/power/light companies,
Telephones etc.

	The government was (as usual) wrong.


>If you seriously think this is a heavily regulated market you should do more
>research into such places as Nazi Germany, Russia, China, etc.

	France, England etc.

	We are _going_ that route, with more and more regualtion being
dumped on the backs of businesses daily.

	If you think that registering a DBA is the only step you need to
_legally_ start and run a business, you're smokin crack.

>> are much more destructive and pervasive than any potential abuses by
>> market leaders.
>Monopolies are monopolies, claiming that they will be less abusive in a
>regulated market than in a free-market just demonstrates a lack of
>understanding of basic human instincts.
>You are claiming that if we do away with the food regulations that McDonalds
>will be *more* concerned about their meat being cooked thoroughly then you
>obviously don't understand people who chase the bottem line to the exclusion
>of all else.

	If there were no food regulations, would you eat at Mc Donalds?

	Your life, your choice.

>> Also, the latter abuses are naturally corrected by
>> competition,
>
>If a market monopolizes there is *NO* competition. If the market is one that
>takes a large investment in intellectual or capital materials then there
>won't be any opportunity to even attempt to start a competitive venture.

	Like...Operating systems? Nope, Linux is NO competition for NT,
neither are the free BSDs.

>> The answer for establishing "rules" which insure "fairness," such as
>Fairness is about the consumer, not the manufacturer. This misunderstanding
>(if not intentional misdirection) by free-market mavens is at least one
>indication why it won't work.

	Why shouldn't it go both ways? In a healthy market, the consumers
ARE the manufacturers.
--
petro@playboy.com----for work related issues. I don't speak for Playboy.
petro@bounty.org-----for everthing else.      They wouldn't like that.
                                              They REALLY
Economic speech IS political speech.          wouldn't like that.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 14:32:19 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!... (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810011932.OAA20010@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 21:22:24 +0200
> From: Anonymous 
> Subject: Re: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!...

> > Personally, I favor the "Pournelle Solution": acquire a 10-mile by 10-mile
> > region of the Mojave Desert. Not in an "ecologically interesting" area of

As was pointed out it does rain out there. Though there is a more insidious
issue that makes such attempts worthless.

Here's how it works...

Humidity in the air settles on the materials. Because of the daily
temperature extremes the expansion of this water causes the materials to
break into very small particles. The wind comes along and transports these
particles downwind.

I'll leave the rest to your imagination and a couple of hours with a geology
text on erosion.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 14:45:44 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199810010212.VAA16034@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 9:12 PM -0500 9/30/98, Jim Choate wrote:
>Forwarded message:
>> Please elaborate. Netscape works fine on Windows 98, and faces the
>> same restrictions with installation that original Windows 95 had.
>
>No Netscape on NT or 95/98 is no where near as stable as on a Linux or
>Solaris box (the two that I use most). I can't go 24 hours on my NT for
>example without Netscape hanging for some mysterious reason whereas I've
>run Netscape (even on my HP 10.10) for days without a hang and those
>mysterious pauses it's so famous for.

	Netscape isn't as stable on my Mac at work as it is on my Linux
box, so what?

	Nothing is as stable on NT as it is on a (properly installed) linux
system.


>> As for Java, Java works as well on Windows as on any other platform.
>Yep, that explains why my NT's have to be rebooted almost daily because of
>various issues and my various unix boxes go for weeks....yep, that's more
>stable all right.

	Your NT systems are installed improperly then. You should be able
to get at least a week, if not 2 out of them.

>> It's funny how giving the customers more value for their money, always
>> ends up being anti-competative.
>
>How do you figure Win98 gives me more value for my money? I buy Win98 for
>$100 or so, have to have gobs of memory and a damned fast processor to even
>come close to the alternate OS'es.

	Simple, you now have a REALLY nice machine, whereas if you'd have
stuck with Linux, that old 486 would still be a decent machine...

>> network, that they can quickly add a jillion features to any program,
>And just as many bugs.

	Bah, no one cares about bugs.
--
petro@playboy.com----for work related issues. I don't speak for Playboy.
petro@bounty.org-----for everthing else.      They wouldn't like that.
                                              They REALLY
Economic speech IS political speech.          wouldn't like that.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 14:14:14 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: EduFUD: Computers, software can harm emotional, social development
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



As the FUD snowballs. The Globe gets Rimmed again...

The edutocracy (and the Boston Globe :-)) finally notices that all that
artillery parked at the foot of their ivory tower actually *does* blow
great big rocks into tiny little bits...


In another context, Carl Ellison has this great story about how, when
firearms were invented, peasants could finally kill knights in armor from a
comfortable distance. When the church reminded them that killing knights
was a sin, peasants started killing knights on weekdays and confessing
those sins in church on Sunday.


Frankly, I've learned more on the net in the last few years than I ever
would have in an equivalent time in school. I credit it with a
several-point increase in my IQ, even.

Woops. We don't count IQ anymore, now do we?... :-).


I guess I know too many stone geniuses who've had computers since they were
children -- most of the people on this list were raised that way, I would
bet -- to take this crap too seriously, reduced attention "spans" or not.

By the way, "span" is the wrong word for ADD. I was hardly raised on TV,
much less computers, (I had my face in science fiction books throughout
most of my childhood), and I've been known to focus on something
"inappropriately" for hours.

While I certainly have varying degrees of control of my attention, but I
just don't see that a "handicap" anymore. My attention is event-driven,
rather than processed in neat organized batches, and I've learned to like
it that way, even if it did give me trouble when I was chained in the
aforementioned tower's dungeon for most of my formative years.

Besides, even if computers cause people to have event-driven attention
rather than in nice neat industrial batches, that's probably a Good
Thing(tm). Consider it evolution in action.

Farmers and mechanics may need "control" of their attention, but in an
information "hunter" like myself, most of the people who do anything useful
on the net, it's a selective disadvantage.

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga


--- begin forwarded text


From: Somebody
To: "'rah@shipwright.com'" 
Subject: FW: Computers, software can harm emotional, social development
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 13:28:41 -0400
X-Priority: 3
Status: U



> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Somebody else
> Sent:	Thursday, October 01, 1998 8:41 AM
> To:	a whole buncha education "professionals"...
> Subject:	Computers, software can harm emotional, social
> development
>
>
>
> Computers, software can harm emotional, social development
>
>               By Barbara F. Meltz, Globe Staff, 10/01/98
>
>               Short attention span. Needs instant gratification. Can't
> focus. Doesn't apply
>               himself.
>
>               If this is what you're hearing from your child's first-
> or second-grade teacher,
>               before you panic and think learning disabilities or
> attention deficit disorder,
>               consider something external: your family computer.
>
>               Educators have long intuited that early exposure to
> computers doesn't give
>               children an educational edge. Now researchers have data
> to show it can
>               actually be harmful, potentially undercutting brain
> development, interfering
>               with the way a child learns, intruding on social and
> emotional development,
>               and putting health at risk. ''There is no reason to give
> a computer to a child
>               under 7,'' says educational psychologist Jane M. Healy.
> If she had her way,
>               she'd throw computers out of preschool and early
> elementary classrooms
>               and keep kids off them at home. Her
> sure-to-be-controversial new book,
>               ''Failure to Connect: How Computers Affect Our
> Children's Minds, for
>               Better and Worse'' (Simon & Schuster), is eye-opening
> reading.
>
>               Many researchers agree with her. ''For children under 7
> or 8 who have not
>               reached the age of abstract reasoning, computer exposure
> changes the way
>               they absorb material. Some of us think this is quite
> frightening,'' says
>               educational policy analyst Ed Miller of Cambridge.
>
>               Technology researcher Douglas Sloan, a professor at
> Teachers College at
>               Columbia University, says, ''It's something of a scandal
> that it's taken us so
>               long to figure this out.''
>
>               Some of the troubling trends Healy identifies:
>
>                 Kindergartners who don't want to draw with markers and
> crayons
>               because ''it isn't as pretty as my computer drawings.''
>
>                 First-graders who are so used to a computer game's
> reward for doing
>               something easy, they don't want to try anything hard.
>
>                 Kindergartners who are nonverbal and don't know how to
> play with
>               peers because of too much time alone at the computer.
>
>                 First-graders who are unable to understand what they
> read because they
>               lack a rudimentary language base they typically get from
> peer and adult
>               interaction.
>
>               ''In putting little kids at the computer, you take them
> away from peer play,''
>               says Sloan. ''That compromises social development and
> imagination.'' Not
>               only that, but a child is being provided with someone
> else's visual images at
>               precisely the time when he needs to be developing his
> own image-making
>               capacities. ''That's what leads to intellectual growth
> later,'' Sloan says. The
>               same thing is true with too much TV time, but studies
> show parents monitor
>               TV more. ''We've come to ascribe almost magical
> educational qualities to
>               the computer,'' he says. He researches how to protect
> children from
>               computer misuse.
>
>               Problems with computer exposure aren't limited to early
> childhood. Bill
>               Schechter, a history teacher at Lincoln-Sudbury Regional
> High School, says
>               he knows the Internet has the capacity to be a
> tremendous tool for research,
>               but so far he hasn't seen how.
>
>               ''I'm getting to the point where I'm not going to accept
> Internet research,'' he
>               says. ''The technology for cheating far outdistances a
> teacher's ability to
>               recognize it. All I'm seeing is lazy Internet use, where
> kids use it as an excuse
>               not to open a book, not to check sources, not to go to
> the library.''
>
>               Software researcher Howard Budin says one of the
> problems is the vastness
>               of the Internet. Last year, his son's sixth-grade
> research project required two
>               Internet sources. ''When he did a search for `panda,' he
> turned up 54,000
>               entries! If I hadn't been there with him, he would have
> been totally
>               frustrated,'' he says. Most of the entries were for
> schools with pandas for
>               mascots, but it took even an experienced navigator like
> Budin a half-hour to
>               get to appropriate sites.
>
>               Budin, who is director of the Center for Technology and
> School Change at
>               Columbia, says exposure to the Internet should start in
> third or fourth grade,
>               not before. ''Introduce it as a source of information,
> not entertainment,'' he
>               says.
>
>               Even so, it can lead to the kind of problems teachers
> like Schechter see.
>
>               ''Who's teaching these kids how to use it and where the
> information comes
>               from and what it means?'' asks Sloan.
>
>               He says that in the rush to wire classrooms, these
> critical questions are
>               largely ignored. ''Data itself is not knowledge,'' says
> Sloan. ''It's only
>               knowledge when you connect it thoughtfully and
> critically to curriculum.''
>
>               In many schools, the problem is lack of human
> infrastructure, says
>               technology researcher Vicki O'Day, of the Xerox Palo
> Alto Research
>               Center. She speaks admiringly of a new principal at an
> elementary school in
>               California who had the courage to shut down the computer
> lab for two years
>               until she had technical support and curricula-links.
>
>               She says a school needs to fund two positions, a
> technology coordinator
>               who keeps equipment up and running and is not a teacher,
> and a curriculum
>               development person who is a teacher but not in the
> classroom. ''You can't
>               expect a classroom teacher to be knowledgeable about
> software and the
>               Internet in addition to what she already does,'' O'Day
> says.
>
>               She also tells schools to put computers in the
> classroom, not in a computer
>               lab; they're more likely to be integrated into the
> curriculum and to be seen as
>               one more tool, along with a dictionary and pencil
> sharpener. ''We used to
>               think kids should do computer just for the sake of doing
> computer,'' says
>               O'Day. ''Uh-uh. It should always be used for a
> purpose.''
>
>               For parents, this means restricting the computer to
> what's useful and
>               forgetting about what's entertaining.
>
>               Healy, who's a purist about this, would limit a young
> child's access to e-mail
>               to write to grandpa, or to sitting on your lap while you
> download pictures of
>               her favorite animal or truck.
>
>               Steve Bennett, who reviews software and is author of
> ''The Plugged-in
>               Parent'' (Times Books), tells parents to think of
> themselves as ''parentware.''
>               He defines that as an involved parent. ''It's just as
> important as software,'' he
>               says.
>
>               In his home, the computer is one resource among many and
> it's not used as a
>               babysitter or as entertainment. He enforces limits on
> screen time - his kids, 8
>               and 11, can have two half-hour sessions a day, after
> homework, although he
>               says they hardly ever use it - and restrictions on
> software: no ''drill and grill''
>               games, shoot'em-ups, or Internet surfing. Budin has
> similiar restrictions for
>               his children; his sixth-grade son spends his computer
> time on spread sheets,
>               graphic programs, and 3-D renderings.
>
>               In addition to setting limits on software, Sloan says,
> parents should avoid
>               what he calls an adulatory attitude toward the computer.
> If your child is
>               young and you're just starting out, ''Look at it as an
> appliance,'' he says.
>
>               And if you already have a 4- or 6- or 9-year-old who's
> hooked on
>               computer games?
>
>               It's never too late to talk about family values, even to
> say you've made a
>               mistake about allowing certain games. ''The ultimate
> challenge and most
>               successful counter,'' says Sloan, ''is to provide such a
> rich environment in
>               your home that the games seem dull compared to whatever
> else is going on.''
>
>               AFTERTHOUGHT - Recommended reading for 3- to
> 7-year-olds: ''How
>               to Take Your Grandmother to the Museum'' (Workman
> Publishing), by Lois
>               Wyse and her granddaughter, Molly Rose Goldman.
>
>               Child Caring appears every Thursday in At Home. Barbara
> F. Meltz
>               welcomes letters and comments and can be reached via
> e-mail at
>               meltz@globe.com.
> hmm!
>
> 	This story ran on page F01 of the Boston Globe on 10/01/98.
>               (c) Copyright 1998 Globe Newspaper Company.

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 14:51:17 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Rain in Death Valley (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810011953.OAA20293@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: "X" 
> Subject: Rain in Death Valley
> Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 13:37:47 -0600

> If the area you refer to is below sea-level, where would the hard-rains
> runoff run off to?

Let me say one word....

watertable

Enjoy drinking the runoff.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 14:53:03 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810011954.OAA20323@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 14:35:28 -0500
> From: Petro 
> Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)

> 	Nothing is as stable on NT as it is on a (properly installed) linux
> system.

That is the point after all.

> 	Your NT systems are installed improperly then. You should be able
> to get at least a week, if not 2 out of them.

I'll beg to differ with you.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 14:14:54 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: early reports from Austria: possible crypto stalemate (fwd)
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


To: cryptography@c2.net
Cc: M Taylor , djones@efc.ca
Subject: Re: early reports from Austria: possible crypto stalemate (fwd)
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 14:04:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: Don Beaver 
Sender: owner-cryptography@c2.net


M Taylor writes:
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> P.S. If anyone happens to be fluent in German, maybe you could help us
>      by translating, or summarizing, in English:
>
> 	http://www.mediaweb.at/akmg/news/wassenaar.html

Disclaimer:

I don't make any claim to real fluency in German (I never took
a class), so there may be mistakes.  But I think this is pretty
accurate.

--Don Beaver



Journalist Trade Union Protests the Cancellation
of Special Arrangements for Encryption Programs
in the Wassenaar Agreement





At a meeting of experts on the Wassenaar Agreement in Vienna,
the cancellation of exceptions for cryptographic public-domain
software and shareware was negotiated.  The real goal of the
agreement is the control and transparency of transfers of military
and so-called dual-use goods - products and technologies that can
be used for both military and civilian purposes.
The Wassenaar Agreement lists Information Security and encryption
technology, in the form of software encryption programs or hardware,
under the Dual Use category 5.2.





There are to be further efforts to eliminate the exceptions for
public-domain cryptographic software and shareware (usually free
over the Internet or by CD-ROM distribution), and thereby place
each kind of encryption software under the monitoring and restriction
of the Wassenaar agreement.



The journalist trade union is protesting vehemently, because free
access by journalists and the media to encryption programs is
threatened.  Encryption programs play a rapidly increasing role in
the protection of electronic network communications for the media
and jounalists.  It is not difficult to monitor electronic mail
automatically and make copies without recipients or senders ever
taking notice.  Investigative journalism on organized crime,
corruption, and illegal arms trafficking, for example, may be
endangered by the lack of protected communication, because the
privacy of research is not ensured, especially when it takes
place internationally.



Not only will editorial privacy be damaged but also the protection
of information sources, as well as the protection of the private
sphere.  Not only must the protection of communication between
journalists and media be ensured but also between journalists
and media and their information sources, which cannot be limited
to a special circle of acquaintances.



Attempts to permit programs that just encode with a key whose
duplicate is placed with authorities cannot provide a way out.
With such duplicate keys, all encoded messages can be decoded.
But there is no guarantee that this duplicate key will not
arrive in the unauthorized hands of organized crime, for example,
or that is it not used by individual members of the authority
or intelligence services in an unauthorized manner.



The information surrounding the Wassenaar Agreement is also
precarious: at present, each discussion in the Wassenaar Agreement
falls under the privacy of "privileged diplomatic communication"
(Point IX) and the application of resolutions are to be implemented
using "national discretion" (Point II.3).
Thus, the targets of the Wassenaar Agreement are counterproductive(?):
companies whose doubtful weapons shipments were forbidden remain
spared from public criticism, just like failed decisions.


Therefore the journalist trade union demands:



    


  • 
Elimination of cryptography from the list of "dual-use" goods
entered by the Wassenaar Agreement.  No limitation of cryptography
to insecure (respectively, key duplication/escrow) encryption
techniques.


  • 
Democratic control/monitoring of the Wassenaar Agreement: No modification
of the rules and jurisdiction of the Wassenaar Agreement without prior
public discussion.


  • 
Obligatory public reporting on activities in the context of the
Wassenaar Agreement.




--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 15:21:01 +0800
To: Robert Hettinga 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 1:50 PM -0500 10/1/98, Robert Hettinga wrote:

	If you (and others) are going to forward this kind of stuff, could
you least foucs long enough to make sure it is properly formatted?

	It's a touch difficult to read.

>> Computers, software can harm emotional, social development
>>
>>               By Barbara F. Meltz, Globe Staff, 10/01/98
>>
>>               Short attention span. Needs instant gratification. Can't
>> focus. Doesn't apply
>>               himself.
>>
>>               If this is what you're hearing from your child's first-
>> or second-grade teacher,
>>               before you panic and think learning disabilities or
>> attention deficit disorder,
>>               consider something external: your family computer.
>>
>>               Educators have long intuited that early exposure to
>> computers doesn't give
>>               children an educational edge. Now researchers have data
>> to show it can
>>               actually be harmful, potentially undercutting brain
>> development, interfering
--
petro@playboy.com----for work related issues. I don't speak for Playboy.
petro@bounty.org-----for everthing else.      They wouldn't like that.
                                              They REALLY
Economic speech IS political speech.          wouldn't like that.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 17:19:01 +0800
To: "'Kevin Elliott'" 
Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A19284720@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




> >Bullshit, monopolies exist because of the regulation.
> 
> I'm afraid sir, that your ingonorance is showing.

Is it?

> Pick up any college (hell, high school) economics 
> textbook.

Yes, why don't we try anyone from the Austrian or Chicago Schools, or
have you not gotten that far in your Econ 101 textbook?

I'll even give you a couple to start with: Friedrich A. Hayek, Ludwig
von Mises, Carl Menger, Adam Smith, Murray Rothbard, Milton Friedman,
Alan Greenspan. You also might try Frederic Bastiat, Ayn Rand. Try
reading some of the studies done by the CATO Institute

No, you can keep your Western Illinois school of voodoo economics to
yourself.

> Certain types of businesses are inheritly advantagious to 
> monopolies.  The electric company is the classic example-

There are very few natural monopolies. Few to none. The sewer system or
local access roads are better examples than electricity -- all
electricity requires is right-of-way access, it is not scarce on
property like roads. Copper/fiber is already run by three separate
entities (phone, cable, electric) to the home and there is evidence to
show that it came be made much for free (see fiber-running in Helsinki).

Right-of-way is the source of the monopoly. Problem is government will
assume it is a natural monopoly and create a coercive one. Take
telephony for example, which is so blatantly obvious today that it is
not a natural monopoly -- yet try getting dry copper circuits and
providing dial-tone and see the mess of regulation you run into.

> Certain types of businesses are suited to certain types of 
> competition, and, unregulated, monopolies are exactly what 
> you get.

Show me an example of an unregulated coercive monopoly whose source of
monopoly power is not ultimately the government. Efficient monopolies
(e.g. ALCOA) exist in early markets, but they are not coercive, they
cannot prevent competition, they can only be efficient enough that they
capital market won't see the returns to justify a second entrant.

> This was exactly the situation that occured at the turn of 
> the century and it happened because regulation was non-existant!

I suggest you question the motivation of your sources. We are living in
the shadow of socialism and big government, who proclaimed the evils of
capitalism and stepped in to save the day. Were they justified?

Read what Greenspan thinks turn-of-the-century monopolists and resulting
regulation: http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html

	Matt

PS. Your spelling is as bad as Jim's. One starts to wonder if bad
spelling and bad logic go hand in hand.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 15:29:25 +0800
To: Cypherpunks 
Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A1928471D@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 2:18 PM -0500 10/1/98, Kevin Elliott wrote:
>Said Matthew James Gering,
>
>>Bullshit, monopolies exist because of the regulation.
>
>I'm afraid sir, that your ingonorance is showing.  Pick up any college
>(hell, high school) ecomonics textbook.  Certain types of businesses are
>inheritly advantagious to monopolies.  The electric company is the classic
>example- their is no cost effective way for an electric company to supply
>power to a given area unless it is a monopoly.  Certain types of businesses
>are suited to certain types of competition, and, unregulated, monopolies
>are exactly what you get.  This was exactly the situation that occured at
>the turn of the century and it happened because regulation was
>non-existant!  Your statement is wonderfully trite but I see no evidence to
>support it.

	I'd suggest you go back to school and think a bit.In most places
the "Electric Company" is a goverment sponsored and deligated monopoly.
Competition is prohibited by REGULATION. This also occurs with Gas, Water,
Telephone, especially Non-commercial, cable, and in some places Garbage
disposal.
--
petro@playboy.com----for work related issues. I don't speak for Playboy.
petro@bounty.org-----for everthing else.      They wouldn't like that.
                                              They REALLY
Economic speech IS political speech.          wouldn't like that.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Thomas Roessler 
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 10:54:27 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code)
In-Reply-To: <199809281845.TAA18662@server.eternity.org>
Message-ID: <19981001154100.D27670@sobolev.rhein.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Thu, Oct 01, 1998 at 10:26:39AM +0100, Ben Laurie wrote:

> d) As far as I can work out, someone who wants to free part of a
> product, but not all of it, can't practically do so under GPL.

Wrong.  As long as it's your own code you are talking about, you can
release it under whatever license you want -  e.g., you can give
away binary code as part of a proprietary application, and you can
give away binary and source code stand-alone under GLP, LGPL, BSD
license, Artistic License, whatever.

tlr
-- 
Thomas Roessler · 74a353cc0b19 · dg1ktr · http://home.pages.de/~roessler/
     2048/CE6AC6C1 · 4E 04 F0 BC 72 FF 14 23 44 85 D1 A1 3B B0 73 C1




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 15:48:32 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: copyright at the point of a gun (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810012050.PAA20791@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 21:27:56 +0100
> From: Adam Back 
> Subject: copyright at the point of a gun

> Judging by the state of software-piracy with PC software with 80-90%+
> piracy rates, the market is already pretty much ok with ignoring
> copyright, and would be happy to have no copyrights.

So long as it isn't money your taking out of their pocket. There is an
obvious double standard at play in the piracy issue.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 16:18:50 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 2:54 PM -0500 10/1/98, Jim Choate wrote:
>Forwarded message:
>
>> Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 14:35:28 -0500
>> From: Petro 
>> Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
>
>> 	Nothing is as stable on NT as it is on a (properly installed) linux
>> system.
>
>That is the point after all.
>
>> 	Your NT systems are installed improperly then. You should be able
>> to get at least a week, if not 2 out of them.
>
>I'll beg to differ with you.

	You can beg if you want, but I can keep my Mac up for 3 or 4 days
at a time, you SHOULD be able to get at least 2 weeks out of NT, assuming
your hardware isn't flakey.
--
petro@playboy.com----for work related issues. I don't speak for Playboy.
petro@bounty.org-----for everthing else.      They wouldn't like that.
                                              They REALLY
Economic speech IS political speech.          wouldn't like that.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 18:08:03 +0800
To: Robert Hettinga 
Subject: Re: EduFUD: Computers, software can harm emotional, social development
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199810012307.QAA27055@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I just saw a special on nightline last night in which Koppel
berated his guests for not necessarily agreeing that
computer budgets are too much, and not doing good, possibly
doing bad for kids, and that more research is necessary
before schools commit to computers.

it's totally reactionary, and neo-luddite. it's like saying, "stop the world!!
it's going too fast!! it's making me dizzy!! I want to get off!!"

heck, wasn't it just a few weeks ago the govt was screaming
in a study about how there would soon be a shortage of computer
scientists? the hypocrisy of the establishment is always 
breathtaking and unparalleled.

one researcher said that it was causing kids not putting up
with frustration or frustrating experiences as much.

well, hallelujah I say!! if the sheeple of this country had
less tolerance for the intolerable situations regularly
encountered in schools, govts, business, etc.-- perhaps it
would GO AWAY as they exert their influence and pressure
and displeasure.

imho, the "powers that be" are terrified of computers.
PCs are very egalitarian and are creating a new revolution
in information flow and economies. a student who understands
how to navigate through the world of knowledge without  a
chaperone is a dangerous, freethinking individual in
our current stifling, asphyxiating intellectual atmosphere.

the whole image of parents limiting how much their children
can surf the net is quite amusing to me. it's like trying
to push a river.

computers have shown up on the radars of the "powers that
be" as having an alarming effect on the people that use them.
perhaps they are less likely to tolerate crap in their
lives? less tolerant of worthless "middlemen", or less
politely, parasites?

forgive me if I may be a bit more sharp here.
there are many, many parasites feeding off the crap of
our culture, and they don't want that crap to dry up.
but cyberspace has a remarkable ability to cut through
the crap and the parasites. "the speed of cyberspace"...
a new speed limit in the world. or rather, a new
breakdown in all previous limits. a speed UNLIMIT.

oh, the terror! kids might even get bored with our cultures 2 great
opiates: sports and entertainment.  who knows what will
happen then?  tyranny is held in place by frivolous and
meaningless pastimes and amusements in our world.

fortunately, PCs and the internet are now an unstoppable
force. we will see soon what happens when it meets many
"immovable objects" such as govt ineptitude, intransigence,
entrenched control freaks, slavemasters, etc.....
PCs are definitely becoming a political and social force now.
not all effects are positive, but it's creating a new
reality I vastly prefer to the old, shriveled up one.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 18:20:04 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: microcurrency proposal
Message-ID: <199810012320.QAA27969@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




recently James Donald wrote some well-thought-out/reasoned comments
on digital currency and microcurrency.

I've been talking about microcurrency for many years on this
list, and am quite chagrined lately at how long it is taking
to actually materialize. I would have thought it would be
available, for web pages especially, by now.

the new scaled-back goals of Digicash are disappointing, but
a good reality check.

musing over all this is leading me in the following direction.

a few months ago or so I posted info about a company that
was doing a plugin for netscape that allowed some small currency
transactions. I don't know what happened to this company--
does anyone remember who it was, or their web site?

but I think this is a very promising approach. a company
can create a plugin that would support microcurrency charges
for web page hits very easily. 

here's how: the plugin interacts with any site that has
enabled it. it sends a code to the site using a protocol.
the site returns pages only upon a valid transaction request.
for regular browsers without the plugin, the message is,
"sorry, this page costs $.01, please download so-and-so
plugin".

people are very willing to download plugins to look at pages.
people download plugins just to look at animation boxes.
surely they will be willing to download them to serve up
entire pages/content.

how would the cash charge work? when the person gets the 
plugin, they give the plugin company their credit card
number. the company takes care of the problem of accruing
micro charges, keeping track of transactions/bills, and 
billing the credit card in large amounts.

contesting a charge would tend to happen very rarely (because
of the small charges, it is barely worth the effort), but
the system could still support this.

the problem is trying to transfer money to various individuals
if their microcharge accounts have a net positive value instead
of negative (in which case they would be charged their credit
card at the end of the month). how do you transfer this money?

one possibility is sending a check at the end of every month,
or quarter, somewhat similar to the Amazon associates program.

another possibility is figuring a way to credit a credit card
account. this can be done, but from what I understand it is
"frowned upon" by the companies. I have always wondered if
the "powers that be" have intentionally tried to enforce this
so that credit cards cannot turn into a cash transfer mechanism.

of course, I'm leaving the issue of taxes out of this, but
the microcharge company could be a point of collection for
them.

notice that none of what I am proposing above requires any
new infrastructure whatsoever, except a little programming
into a plugin. the distribution of the plugin is partly solved
in that plugins are already distributed all over the net
and understood by end-users.

such a plugin could rapidly become the standard for
"microcurrency" and be a wedge that might be the creation
of a whole new industry within an industry. i.e.
microcurrency on the web, very much the way Netscape virtually
singlehandedly created the entire industry of the web within the 
existing internet.

the door is wide open. such a company could be a very lucrative
endeavor if handled very delicately and carefully, navigating
the minefield of glitches that are surely to be present (many
of which have prevented it from happening to date)

as I understand, the digicash software was not in fact
in plugin form for a browser. this is a pretty serious
handicap imho. the technique of turning it all into a 
browser plugin based on the existing credit card system
seems to me to be the crucial element that could make
it happen.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 15:40:12 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Rain in Death Valley
In-Reply-To: <199810011932.OAA20010@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 3:37 PM -0400 on 10/1/98, X wrote:


> If the area you refer to is below sea-level, where would the hard-rains
> runoff run off to?

True enough. The water runs off the mountains *into* most of Death Valley,
not *out* of it.

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 18:51:19 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Casio Computer offers 1,000,000 Yen encryption challenge
Message-ID: <199810012350.QAA00525@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: William Knowles 
Subject: Casio Computer offers 1,000,000 Yen encryption challenge
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 15:35:45 -0700 (PDT)
To: cryptography@c2.net

TOKYO, Sept. 25 /PRNewswire/ -- CASIO COMPUTER CO., LTD. announces 
development of the MDSR (Multi-Dimensional Space Rotation) encryption 
system for Internet and Intranet data.

MDSR is a new encryption system designed to meet the need for 
high-level digital data security, which has been generated with 
the growth of the Internet and Intranets.

The encryption system used by MDSR is based on Multi-Dimensional 
Space Rotation (MDSR) and Time-Dependent Multi-Dimensional Space 
Rotation (MDSR-TD). The main features of this encryption system 
are: the larger the space dimension the more difficult it is to 
break the code, no special hardware requirements for encryption 
or decryption, and the ability to narrowly regulate hierarchy 
and decryption privileges. The result is an encryption system 
that provides versatile private data management, confidential 
mail security, and security for data sent to multiple 
destinations. Since MDSR also enhances security for data on 
an Internet server, it is also suitable for use by system
administrators and Internet Service Providers.
 
The contest that is detailed on the CASIO Home Page starts 
from September 24, with a cash prize for the person who 
successfully breaks a message encoded with MDSR. CASIO plans 
to use MDSR in future CASIO data communication products.

Contest Details
 
Term:           September 26, 1998 to November 26, 1998 (JST)
 
Encrypted Text: Visit the CASIO Website for details.
                http://www.casio.co.jp/en/


[WK Note: 1,000,000 Yen is worth $7344.84 U.S.D.]


==
I regret to say that we of the FBI are powerless to act in 
cases of oral-genital intimacy, unless it has in some way 
obstructed interstate commerce. -- J. Edgar Hoover
==
http://www.dis.org/erehwon/





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 18:50:00 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Clear and present danger: FIGHT AGAINST NATIONAL ID CARD
Message-ID: <199810012350.QAA00536@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: "A.C." 
Subject: IP: Clear and present danger: FIGHT AGAINST NATIONAL ID CARD
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 01:22:50 -0700
To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com

>>http://www.house.gov/barr/p_doj.html
>>
>>
>September 17, 1998  

                      BARR TAKES FIGHT AGAINST NATIONAL ID CARD TO
                             HEARINGS, SPEARHEADS EFFORT WITH
                                     GRASSROOTS GROUPS

                    WASHINGTON, DC -- At a news conference before a hearing on
                    federal attempts to establish a national identification
system, U.S.
                    Representative Bob Barr (GA-7) released the following
statement.  The
                    hearings, which will be held later today by the
Government Reform and
                    Oversight Committee's Subcommittee on National Economic
Growth,
                    Natural Resources, and Regulatory Affairs, will focus
on this issue. 

                    "One of the most precious liberties Americans possess
is the ability to live
                    their lives without a big-brother government, with vast
power, looking
                    over their shoulders at every opportunity.  Our federal
government is
                    already too powerful, too expensive, and too intrusive.
 We should be
                    working to reduce its size and cost, rather than
expanding it. 

                    "Our Founding Fathers intended to create a system with
division of
                    power between three branches of government and between
the state and
                    federal governments in order to protect our rights.
These moves to
                    centralize power in the executive branch of the federal
government by
                    establishing a national identification card system
represent an effort to
                    disrupt the balance of power that has served our nation
so well for so
                    long.  We must put a stop to these initiatives, begun
in 1996 when
                    legislation authorizing a national i.d. was snuck into
an omnibus spending
                    bill with no debate, public input, or vote,  before it
is too late to do so." 

                    "I thank all of the groups that have been involved in
this effort for their
                    continued support.  I also appreciate the willingness
of State
                    Representative George Grindley (R-Marietta) and others
to take time
                    away from their jobs and families to testify this
morning. 

                    These hearings are part of a continuing effort by Barr
and others to stop
                    several recent intrusive government proposals.  He has
introduced
                    legislation to stop federally-mandated standardization
of state drivers'
                    licenses, end a move to create a national health
identifier, and led the
                    effort to halt FBI moves for new wiretapping authority
and the ability to
                    track cellular phone users and lawful gun owners. 

                    Barr, a former United States Attorney, serves on the
House Judiciary
                    and Government Reform Committees. 

                                             --30--  

                                  BACK TO PRESS RELEASES
                                BACK TO MEDIA INFORMATION
                                     BACK TO MAIN PAGE


>





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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 18:50:02 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: [Part 1 & 2] THE IMPERIAL PRESIDENCY By David M. Bresnahan
Message-ID: <199810012350.QAA00551@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: Kepi 
Subject: IP: [Part 1 & 2] THE IMPERIAL PRESIDENCY By David M. Bresnahan
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 23:37:09 -0500
To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com

For those who may have missed this report; all others, please disregard.
Kepi <><

......................

>X-Sender: cabhop@mail.highfiber.com
>X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32)
>Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 11:57:22 -0600
>To: (Recipient list suppressed)
>From: Robert Huddleston 
>Subject: THE IMPERIAL PRESIDENCY [ Part 1 & 2 ] By David M. Bresnahan 
>
>
>http://www.worldnetdaily.com/exclusiv/980929.exbre_clintons_secr.html
>http://www.worldnetdaily.com/exclusiv/980930_exbre_clintons_secr.html
>
>SEPTEMBER 29 & 30, 1998                  
>
>
>THE IMPERIAL PRESIDENCY 
>Clinton's secret war games 
>He's scheming for strike to make him international hero 
>                  
>
>This is the first of a two-part series on the
>revelations of military computer expert Curt Tomlin. 
>
>By David M. Bresnahan 
>Copyright 1998, WorldNetDaily.com 
>
>President Bill Clinton is playing war games
>on a top secret computer to come up with a
>way to be an international hero, according to
>the man who designed the system. 
>
>According to Rev. Curt Tomlin, a former
>member of the battle staff of both presidents
>John F. Kennedy and Lyndon B. Johnson,
>Clinton is a desperate man who is like an
>animal trapped in a corner. He will do
>anything to regain his credibility and deflect
>criticism from his impending impeachment
>hearings, he says. He also is driven by his
>desire to create a positive legacy of his time in
>the White House, according to various
>reports. 
>
>Clinton's motivations are dangerous to the
>security of our nation, according to Tomlin. It
>was Tomlin who designed and perfected the
>Pentagon's first war games computer system,
>the top secret "Single Integrated Operating Procedure." 
>
>The "SIOP" computer is a method of targeting
>a military attack and evaluating the most
>likely response to that attack, according to
>Tomlin. Highly classified intelligence
>information is gathered from all over the
>world by the CIA and other sources, placed in
>the computer, and then accessed by Clinton to
>play his own personal war games. 
>
>"The decisions he's making right now are
>totally illogical and irresponsible," Tomlin
>told WorldNetDaily in an exclusive interview.
>"Looking at the power and everything he's got
>at his finger tips. That's a dangerous situation
>for a spastic individual." 
>
>Tomlin has maintained silence about the top
>secret program for many years. He has been
>called out of retirement three times and has
>served in the Navy, Air Force, and Army for a
>combined total of just over 24 years. He has
>also been hired by government contractors to
>assist in computer intelligence systems
>designed to improve security for military
>computer systems. 
>
>"I could be sticking my neck on the chopping
>block for a number of reasons," said Tomlin of
>his decision to make his information public.
>"Number one is, I'm still under some lifetime
>restrictions on security clearances. For
>example two of the clearances I had above top
>secret was ESI and category 7 and 9. That was
>three above that. Those are lifetime. So I have
>to be a little bit careful about what I put in
>print. I think people have to be aware of this,
>regardless of the consequences on my end. I
>feel that I would be guilty of the military
>crime of negligence of duty if I did not bring
>this to somebody's attention," explained
>Tomlin. 
>
>Clinton had tried to become an international
>hero by destroying hundreds of terrorists
>being trained by Osama bin Laden in
>Afghanistan and a chemical weapons plant in
>Sudan. Those two missile attacks were chosen
>through use of the SIOP computer to which
>Clinton has access, according to Tomlin. 
>
>The computer predicted the result of the
>attacks would bring about the death of
>hundreds of terrorist forces and eliminate a
>chemical weapons factory. Someone
>intervened to change the results, according to
>an intelligence source who spoke only on
>condition of anonymity. 
>
>Reports in European newspapers after the
>attacks by Clinton corroborate what that
>source claimed. "There were no dead
>terrorists, and the chemical weapons plant
>was an innocent pharmaceutical plant. Instead
>of being a hero, Clinton is an international
>laughing stock. The terrorists were tipped off
>and cleared the area. The real chemical
>weapons plant was two miles away. It was a
>combination of bad intelligence and
>purposeful intervention," said the source. 
>
>Clinton has been searching the SIOP system
>ever since the failure in an effort to find
>another opportunity to prove himself to the
>world and become the international hero he
>envisions for his legacy, according to the
>source. Tomlin agrees. 
>
>"There's no choice. He's either going to sink or
>try again. We can look for some very
>unpleasant responses, depending on the
>target he chooses," says Tomlin. 
>
>When Clinton actually succeeds at inflicting
>damage to a group of international terrorists,
>many experts believe there will be swift and
>deadly retaliation. Americans are in danger of
>massive chemical and biological attacks in
>major metropolitan areas, as well as similar
>attacks on large military bases. 
>Tomlin says he is personally aware of
>unprotected water supplies to domestic
>military bases that could provide terrorists an
>opportunity to poison the drinking water
>used by most of the nation's military. 
>"When you contaminate a water supply ...
>that's almost beyond my comprehension," he
>remarked. The open borders of the United
>States make it a simple process for terrorists
>to come into the country and bring their
>weapons of mass destruction with them
>without detection," he says. "They can come
>and go as they please with any kind of cargo.
>That border is literally wide open, regardless
>of what INS tells you," warned Tomlin. 
>
>Tomlin believes there are many terrorist
>agents already located in the United States
>waiting for orders to strike. Other sources
>have independently confirmed that claim but
>were unwilling to be identified. 
>
>"There's no doubt that the U.S. is currently in
>the greatest danger of massive domestic
>attack from an external enemy than ever
>before in our nation's history," agreed one
>intelligence source who is equally concerned
>about Clinton pushing such terrorists to the
>point to massive retaliation. "They just need
>an excuse," he said. 
>
>"Of course, the president has available to him
>an awesome military force that he can use to
>launch a first strike on any target in the
>world," explained Tomlin of the top secret
>system available to Clinton. "One of the things
>I have been real concerned about recently is
>the type of response that we can expect from
>these various targets that the president can
>choose from. For example, if he chose to hit
>target A, the computer system would come
>back and tell him what kind of response he
>can expect. Will that response be in the nature
>of an explosive response like blowing up an
>embassy? Will it be in the form of a chemical
>or biological response, or a combination of the
>two? And it will also tell him, will the
>response be a psychological or political
>response, or a combination of any of these? In
>other words, the system will come back and
>tell him exactly what he can expect the owners
>of that target to do in retaliation," explained
>Tomlin, the father of that real-life computer
>war game. 
>
>"We got an awful lot of our information
>through CIA on site sources where these
>various targets were located," Tomlin says.
>"We could tell you anything you wanted to
>know about that target. How thick the walls
>were, if it were a structure, how far under
>ground it goes. How many megatons of
>explosives it would take to wipe it out totally,
>or give you 50 percent destruction, or 75
>percent destruction. We could just tell you
>anything you wanted to know about that
>target." 
>The highly advanced computer system as
>well as the automated launch and attack
>systems enable Clinton to initiate an attack
>without the knowledge of very many other
>individuals. Such decisions could be made by
>Clinton alone, or with just a few political
>advisers. Military and security advisers could
>be left in the dark. 
>
>"That's what bothers me today," says Tomlin.
>"Given the fact that the man in the White
>House now has his finger on the trigger, and
>he can launch those forces which still consist
>of atomic warheads on any intercontinental
>ballistic missile. He can create a situation that
>could be very detrimental to this country.
>There are certain things that I'm really
>concerned about at this point in time
>concerning the highly probable responses that
>the president can expect as the result of
>striking certain targets." 
>
>With SIOP, Clinton can sit at his private
>computer and play war games until he finds
>the situation he likes best. He can literally
>type in various attacks around the world and
>the SIOP computer will tell him what will be
>the likely results of such an attack. With the
>push of a button he can turn the computer
>simulation he likes best into reality. 
>
>"The ones I am concerned about now is the
>possibility of a chemical or biological
>response to a specific strike that he would
>initiate," said Tomlin of his fear. "Simply
>because an explosive response is limited in
>scope. It's a token. It's a warning. But when
>you drop a very small amount of biological or
>chemical agents into the water supply of a
>large city of Dallas or Houston, my friend, we
>have a problem in that area. You can bring
>these agents through customs on our southern
>border almost undetected. There's just very
>little possibility of these things being detected
>coming through Customs or just walking
>across the border in a deserted area." 
>
>Tomlin created the SIOP computer back in
>1963 when he served on the Kennedy battle
>staff. He continued to serve on the Johnson
>battle staff as well. Since then he has helped
>the military work on numerous top secret
>defense projects and information systems. 
>
>Tomlin did his work in the top secret
>underground "site R," as well as in the
>Pentagon war room. His work was considered
>so critical that he had a 24-hour armed Marine
>guard watching over him. 
>
>Although Tomlin is now retired, he still lives
>by Fort Hood in Texas and has many
>neighbors who are current and former
>military. He claims there are many who are
>getting out of the service because of Clinton. 
>
>"Unfortunately," says Tomlin, "that's the
>sentiment that is running rampant among
>military people in this area. If you cannot
>trust your leader, then we have a problem.
>This man cannot be trusted. They are
>deserting (their careers). I'm talking about our
>combat experienced veterans. They're giving
>up 18 years, 17 years and so forth and getting
>out because they can no longer trust their
>leader. They don't want to be a part of what he
>might create." 
>Tomlin expects Clinton to launch an attack
>very soon that will bring devastating
>domestic retaliation to the U.S. 
>"If I were still on active duty, either as an
>enlisted man or as a commissioned officer,
>knowing what I know now, looking at all of
>the information I have available to me, I
>would have no choice but to resign my
>commission or terminate my enlistment
>simply because there is no way that I could
>now trust my commander in chief," said Tomlin. 
>
>THE IMPERIAL PRESIDENCY 
>Clinton's secret war games -- part 2 
>He has the power to disable electronics
>anywhere in the world 
>                  
>This is the second of a two-part series on Clinton's secret
>war games and the concerns of the man who helped invent
>them. 
>
>By David M. Bresnahan 
>Copyright 1998, WorldNetDaily.com 
>We are living in a new age of electronic warfare
>which could make every electrical device from
>military tanks to clock radios inoperative, according
>to one of the people responsible for such weapons
>systems. 
>
>President Bill Clinton could enter a few key strokes
>on a computer and selectively disable all electronics
>anywhere in the world, including within the U.S.,
>using a top secret satellite system known as "LEO."
>That ability is not unique to the U.S., however. Other
>countries and even terrorists could knock out
>electronics equipment anywhere in the world. 
>
>Rev. Curt Tomlin, 65, is a retired Army major with 24
>years combined service in the Navy, Air Force, and
>Army. He was a member of the battle staff for the
>Kennedy and Johnson administrations and
>developed top secret computer systems for the
>Pentagon. His unique expertise prompted the
>military to bring him out of retirement three times to
>put his skills to use in the development of war
>games computers, security computer systems and
>the testing of electronics warfare. 
>Tomlin gave an exclusive interview to
>WorldNetDaily to express his concerns about
>national security. He says the U.S. is in grave danger
>because of a president who is desperate to hang on
>to his position of power at all cost. 
>
>In an exclusive WorldNetDaily article yesterday,
>Tomlin detailed his fears that Clinton is using a war
>games computer to find a new target he can attack.
>Clinton's goal, according to Tomlin, is to become an
>international hero. Tomlin, who created the nation's
>first computer war game system, known as "SIOP,"
>for the Pentagon, fears that Clinton's actions will
>bring devastating retaliation from terrorists who are
>just waiting for an excuse to activate their plan of
>domestic attack against the U.S. 
>
>Although Tomlin believes the greatest danger to the
>U.S. is from biological and chemical weapons, he is
>also concerned about electronic warfare. Tomlin
>believes Clinton is very upset with a large portion of
>the nation that wants him impeached. He says
>Clinton is planning a way to get back at his enemies
>in a big way. 
>
>"This man (Clinton) is extremely vindictive and he's
>going to get back at the country one way or another,"
>said Tomlin, who is also concerned about Clinton's
>recent attempt to use the SIOP computer to attack
>alleged terrorist sites in Afghanistan and Sudan.
>Tomlin believes new attacks are imminent in order
>to turn the previous failure to damage the terrorists
>into a major victory that will make Clinton an
>international hero. 
>
>Tomlin expects domestic retaliation from the next
>attack by Clinton to be devastating. He says terrorists
>are already in the U.S. awaiting orders to attack, a
>claim supported by a recently intercepted fax sent
>world wide to 5,000 "soldiers" loyal to Osama bin
>Laden. The faxed order, reported in London and
>Jerusalem newspapers recently, tells the terrorists to
>be prepared to attack U.S. and Israel in four ways
>very soon. 
>According to the fax, the attacks would be designed to 
>
>Bring commercial airlines to a halt 
>Stop all maritime traffic 
>Occupy U.S. embassies around the world 
>Shut down U.S. banking 
>
>Such actions would seem difficult to achieve, but
>Tomlin says it would actually be easy to accomplish
>with access to electronics warfare devices. Although
>his greatest concern is chemical or biological attack,
>he said he would not be surprised if the attack came
>through electronics. Virtually everything from
>military aircraft to TV remotes would be disabled,
>according to Tomlin. 
>Tomlin was called out of retirement in 1995 to
>participate in a top secret project. He worked in the
>10th Mountain Division as a senior test plan analyst. 
>
>"You know that your automobile has an electronic
>ignition in it," explained Tomlin. "It also has a
>computer inside that. Did you know that we can
>immobilize every moving vehicle in this country
>with a few key strokes of a computer, all at the same
>time? 
>
>"By using the LEO satellites," he described, "you can
>disrupt the computers. You can stop that electronic
>ignition. It's all electronically based. You can
>interfere with it and stop it dead in it's tracks." 
>
>Tomlin also worked on tests dealing with laser
>technology and the global positioning system, but he
>did not provide details of those tests or their
>purpose. He did say the testing was extensive and
>was all for military purposes. 
>It is clear that China and other countries have this
>same technology, agreed Tomlin. He believes the
>recent intercepted bin Laden fax is evidence that
>terrorists have this same ability. Electronic warfare
>would make all four of the stated goals easily attainable. 
>
>Tomlin is risking legal action by the Pentagon for
>revealing top secret information. That's a risk he says
>he is willing to take because of the danger he
>believes has been caused by an out-of-control president. 
>
>"The decisions he's making right now are totally
>illogical and irresponsible," said Tomlin about his
>concerns regarding Clinton. "Looking at the power
>and everything he's got at his finger tips. That's a
>dangerous situation for a spastic individual." Tomlin
>has maintained silence about the top secret program
>for many years, but now he feels compelled to speak
>out. 
>
>"I could be sticking my neck on the chopping block
>for a number of reasons," said Tomlin of his decision
>to make his information public. "Number one is I'm
>still under some lifetime restrictions on security
>clearances. For example two of the clearances I had
>above top secret was ESI and category 7 and 9. That
>was three above that. Those are lifetime. So I have to
>be a little bit careful about what I put in print. 
>"I think people have to be aware of this, regardless of
>the consequences on my end. I feel that I would be
>guilty of the military crime of negligence of duty if I
>did not bring this to somebody's attention,"
>explained Tomlin. 
>
>Is this all part of a planned conspiracy? Or is this a
>president gone mad? Tomlin said he would not be
>surprised by either scenario. 
>
>"If that's the way it turns out, I will not be at all
>surprised," he said. "When you put all of the pieces
>of the puzzle together you see how it all fits together.
>
>"The ultimate end product of these programs the
>government has been working on is to create a
>generation of people who will readily accept sudden
>and radical change without question, without
>objection, and without opposition. That's the goal of
>these programs in a nutshell. This is headed toward
>a one-world government without any question
>what-so-ever, he warns. These programs have been
>going on for a long time. People need to pay
>attention to what Outcome-Based Education is all
>about, what Goals 2000 is all about, and these other
>socialistic programs that are leading in this direction.
>It's upon us," warned Tomlin. 
>
>In recent years Tomlin has been teaching and writing
>college courses dealing with electronic data
>processing. He tells his students, "If you can think of
>it, you can do it. Your only limitation is your own
>imagination. There are no limitations when it comes
>to electronics. 
>
>"Y2K is going to be one of the biggest problems
>you've ever seen in your life, coupled with the other
>intentional (electronic) interferences we're talking
>about." 
>
>Tomlin says he entered a Navy competition back in
>1963 for a mystery computer assignment. After two
>weeks of competition with many others who wanted
>the top secret, undisclosed position, Tomlin was
>notified to pack his bags and report to the Pentagon. 
>"I had no idea what I would be doing until I walked
>into the front door. I had to compete for that job. At
>that time there were 700 of us in the Navy who had
>shown specific talent and progress for designing
>information and processing systems. That was Navy
>wide because data processing was so new at that
>time," explained Tomlin. 
>
>"There was three places we worked out of. Site R,
>which was the underground command post, the war
>room in the Pentagon -- the JCS war room. We also
>had a facility on the North Hampton, which was a
>light cruiser. That was also the Presidents alternate
>battle site on that cruiser. Later we also had a facility
>on the U.S. Wright, which was a converted jeep
>carrier from World War II." 
>
>When he first arrived he was the youngest, 30, and
>lowest ranked, petty officer, member of the Kennedy
>battle staff. No one on the team knew just what they
>wanted or expected from Tomlin, so he just observed
>and tried to find ways to put his skills to use. 
>
>"Nobody on the battle team was capable of telling
>me what they wanted me to do," he said. "So I
>iddled around there for a couple of weeks just
>watching what the rest of the battle staff did during
>their exercises and their presidential briefings and
>stuff like that. Kind of with my hands in my pockets.
>We had a worldwide battle exercise and I wandered
>around the war room and watched them post the
>status boards, the maps, and process the 'twixes' as
>we called them back then. That's all the messages
>and the strikes and the targets. Finally, I concluded
>that these guys were doing this the hard way." 
>Tomlin, accompanied by his armed Marine guard
>who was with him 24 hours a day, went to work in
>the seclusion of his underground war room at site R.
>He began putting together some very simple
>procedures using IBM punch cards on the latest and
>greatest computer 1963 technology had to offer.
>Within just a few weeks another war game was
>called and Tomlin was ready to show off his
>creation, which he created totally on his own. 
>
>"We had a war game, and while they were doing
>heir thing out there, nobody paid any attention to
>me and nobody knew I was around. So I went back
>and I got copies of all the incoming data and I did
>my thing and I threw my shoulders back one day
>and just started posting the status boards and
>everybody else -- all these lieutenant colonels and
>colonels and brigadier generals and everybody else
>-- were all gathered around the conference table and
>somebody said, 'Tomlin what the hell are you
>doing?' I said, 'Well, I'm plotting the results of these
>various strikes.' And they said, 'Who told you to do
>that?' I said, 'Nobody did.' 
>
>"They got to looking at their conclusions and my
>conclusions and they were identical. What took 30 or
>40 folks for them to do, well I did it by myself in just
>a matter of minutes," described Tomlin of his first
>war games computer program. So that got their
>attention, and that's where everything started. So the
>next time around they used my computerized war
>game, which was the first one the Department of
>Defense ever had. Then later I got tasked to build a
>system for the targets, and then the rate of
>production for atomic weapons storage and
>accountability, and all that good stuff. It just kind of
>exploded (military computer assignments) from
>there." 
>
>The military had never called retirees back into
>full-time active duty until they needed Tomlin
>during the Gulf War. They needed him and didn't
>have a policy in place that enabled them to bring him
>back, pay him, and give him credit towards his
>retirement benefits. 
>Tomlin is listed as a military resource with critical
>skills, so the government made the necessary
>changes in policy and got him back for a full year of
>service. During that time he worked in the national
>records center in St. Louis, MO, to install new
>computer systems and redesign internal security for
>6.9 million records. The commercial company he
>worked with to accomplish the task is owned by
>Ross Perot, he pointed out. 
>As the pioneer of computerized war games, and
>other information systems, Tomlin is obviously
>proud of his work. He is speaking out because he
>believes Clinton is a desperate man trying to save his
>position of power at any cost. He believes Clinton is
>not acting rationally and is about to subject the U.S.
>to grave danger from international terrorists. Tomlin
>says he is willing to accept the personal risk he is
>taking by revealing sensitive information about
>military systems and capabilities. 
>
>Tomlin, is now a minister, and is the director of the
>Christian Alert Network. He devotes his time to
>informing pastors and concerned Christians of
>problems he sees in government schools. He actively
>promotes home schooling, private schools and
>reform of public schools, which he says are being
>used by the government to manipulate the beliefs of
>children and take away parental rights. 
>
>"The primary purpose of the Christian Alert Network
>(TCAN)," states his web page, "is to inform
>individual Christian citizens on specific situations
>that adversely impact upon our basic Christian
>doctrine, religious freedom and traditional families
>and to encourage them to participate in the
>governmental process, in obedience to the Holy
>Scriptures and according to the intent of our
>Founding Fathers." 
>
>
>
>
>
> David Bresnahan, a WorldNetDaily contributing editor,
>hosts "Talk USA Investigative Reports" and is the author
>of "Cover Up: The Art and Science of Political Deception."
>   His email address is David@talkusa.com. 
>
>
>
>
>
> <@{{><   <@{{><   <@{{><   <@{{><   <@{{><   <@{{><   <@{{><
>
>SOCIALIST
> 1. socialism
>   ( Noun ]
>     : social organization based on goverment control of the
>production and distribution of goods.
>                                *****
>   "Gun registration is not enough."
>        Attorney General Janet Reno,
>        December 10,1993 (Associated Press) 
>
>    "Waiting periods are only a step.
>      Registration is only a step.
>   The prohibition of private firearms is the goal."
>                   - Janet Reno
>
>*************************************************
>"But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet to
>warn the people and the sword comes and takes the life of one of them, that
>man will be taken away because of his sin, but I will hold the watchman
>accountable for his blood."
>Ezekiel 33:6 (NIV)
>___________________________________________________________
>New toll-free hotline to Congress 
>Congress is making a new toll-free number available for
>citizens who would like to make their voices heard in
>Washington.      1-800-504-0031 
>Ask for your Congressman office and let him know
>what you think.............
>---------------------------------------------------------------
>Join Gun Owners of America [ GOA ] today.
>Read more about GOA at :     http://www.gunowners.org/
>--------------------------------------------------------------
>Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership (JPFO)
>Become a JPFO member, go to: http://www.jpfo.org/member.htm
>There you will see a printable member application, along with
>info on membership Membership IS open to ALL Law
>abiding citizens.
>---------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
><@{{><   <@{{><   <@{{><   <@{{><   <@{{><   <@{{><   <@{{><
>
>
>
>
>
>





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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 18:51:30 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Europe's Echelon eavesdropping exposed
Message-ID: <199810012350.QAA00562@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Europe's Echelon eavesdropping exposed
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 10:18:09 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  Wired
http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/15295.html

 Eavesdropping on Europe
 by Niall McKay 

 4:00 a.m.30.Sep.98.PDT
 If the European Parliament has its way, the lid is
 about to come off what is reputedly one of the
 most powerful, secretive, and extensive spy
 networks in history -- if, in fact, it really exists. 

 In October, Europe's governing body will
 commission a full report into the workings of
 Echelon, a global network of highly sensitive
 listening posts operated in part by America's
 most clandestine intelligence organization, the
 National Security Agency. 

 "Frankly, the only people who have any doubt
 about the existence of Echelon are in the United
 States," said Glyn Ford, a British member of the
 European Parliament and a director of Scientific
 and Technical Options Assessment, or STOA, a
 technology advisory committee to the
 parliament. 

 Echelon is reportedly able to intercept, record,
 and translate any electronic communication --
 telephone, data, cellular, fax, email, telex -- sent
 anywhere in the world. The parliamentary report
 will focus on concerns that the system has
 expanded and is now zeroed in on the secrets of
 European companies and elected officials. 

 The parliament is alarmed at reports of
 Echelon's impressive capabilities, and during a
 debate on 19 September, the European Union
 called for accountability. The parliament
 stressed that the NSA and the Government
 Communications Headquarters, which jointly
 operate Echelon, must adopt measures to guard
 against the system's abuse. 

 International cooperation on law enforcement is
 important, Ford said, but there are limits. "We
 want to establish a code of conduct for the
 systems to protect EU citizens and
 governments." 

 Across the Atlantic, Patrick Poole, deputy
 director for the Free Congress Foundation, a
 conservative Washington think tank, is preparing
 a report on Echelon to present to Republican
 members of Congress. "I believe it's time we
 start to bring this matter to our elected officials,"
 he said. 

 Poole and Ford have their work cut out for them:
 Neither Britain nor the United States will admit
 that Echelon even exists. The NSA declined any
 comment on a series of faxed questions for this
 story. 

 Keyword: Bomb 

 Over the years, enough information has leaked
 to suggest that the spy network is more than
 science fiction. Echelon came to the attention of
 the EU Parliament following a report
 commissioned by STOA last year. 

 "Unlike many of the electronic spy systems
 developed during the Cold War, Echelon is
 designed for primarily non-military targets:
 governments, organizations, and businesses in
 virtually every country," the report said. 

 According to the STOA report and stories in The
 New York Times, The Daily Telegraph, and The
 Guardian, Echelon consists of a network of
 listening posts, antenna fields, and radar
 stations. The system is backed by computers
 that use language translation, speech
 recognition, and keyword searching to
 automatically sift through telephone, email, fax,
 and telex traffic. 

 The system is principally operated by the NSA
 and the GCHQ, but reportedly also relies on
 cooperation with "signals intelligence"
 operations in other countries, including the
 Communications Security Establishment of
 Canada, Australia's Defense Signals Directorate,
 and New Zealand's Government
 Communications Security Bureau. 

 John Pike, a security analyst for the Federation
 of American Scientists, said each of the five
 government agencies takes responsibility for its
 own geographical region. 

 Each agency reportedly maintains a glossary of
 keywords. If Echelon intercepts a transmission
 containing a word or phrase contained in the
 glossary -- bomb, for example -- the full
 conversation, email, or fax is recorded and
 shared among the agencies. 

 "Echelon intercepts Internet traffic at the
 transport layer, such as the TCP/IP layer, so the
 system doesn't care too much what it is or
 where it came from," said Pike. "For analog
 traffic, such as telephone conversations, it uses
 automatic voice-recognition technology to scan
 the conversations." 

 Abuses of Power? 

 While the EU is aware that Echelon may be a
 useful tool for tracking down global terrorists,
 drug barons, and international criminals, Ford
 said the parliament is concerned that the
 system may also be used for espionage, spying
 on peaceful nations, or gaining unfair economic
 advantage over non-member nations. 

 Indeed, there are many reported instances of the
 British and US intelligence agencies working
 together to gather information in a questionable
 manner. 

 A 1993 BBC documentary about NSA's Menwith
 Hill facility in England revealed that peace
 protestors had broken into the installation and
 stolen part of this glossary, known as "the
 Dictionary." The documentary alleged that
 Menwith Hill -- a sprawling installation covering
 560 acres and employing more than 1,200
 people -- was Echelon's nerve center. 

 Further evidence emerged last year, when
 British Telecom told a court that it provides
 high-bandwidth telecommunications into the
 Menwith Hill facility and from the facility to the
 United States, using a transatlantic fiber-optic
 network. 

 "I believe that these five intelligence agencies
 are working from a single plan," said Pike. 

 British investigative journalist Duncan Campbell
 was the first to report about Echelon in a 1988
 article in The New Statesman. He believes that
 there is a very thin line between intelligence
 gathering and commercial espionage. 

 Pike, of the Federation of American Scientists,
 believes the intelligence agencies operate in a
 gray area of international law. For example,
 there is no law prohibiting the NSA from
 intercepting telecommunications and data traffic
 in the United Kingdom and no law prohibiting
 GCHQ from doing the same thing in the United
 States. 

 "The view by the NSA seems to be anything that
 can be intercepted is fair game," said Pike. "And
 it's very hard to find out what, if any, restraints
 can be employed." 
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




**********************************************
To subscribe or unsubscribe, email:
     majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com
with the message:
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**********************************************
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**********************************************




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 17:34:12 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810012235.RAA21520@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: Matthew James Gering 
> Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
> Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 15:15:18 -0700 

> Show me an example of an unregulated coercive monopoly whose source of
> monopoly power is not ultimately the government.

The Mafia. The handful of world-class coke dealers. Your local church.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Rabid Wombat 
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 13:03:04 +0800
To: Sunder 
Subject: Re: NT5 Ships 96 years early!!!
In-Reply-To: <361533DE.7B4DA16C@brainlink.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




I am dyslexic of Micro$oft. Prepare to have your ass laminated.

On Fri, 2 Oct 1998, Sunder wrote:

> Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 16:14:15 -0400
> From: Salvatore Denaro 
> Subject: NT5 Ships 96 years early
> 
> >From the MS timeline:
> 
> http://www.microsoft.com/WindowsNT5/workstation/default.asp
> 
> WINDOWS NT SERVER 5.0
> DECEMBER 30, 1899 -- Find out about Windows NT Server 5.0 and how it builds 
> upon the strengths of version 4.0 to provide a platform that is faster, 
> more reliable, and easier to manage.
> 
> --
> Salvatore Denaro
> sal@panix.com
> 
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Brian B. Riley" 
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 17:03:31 +0800
To: "Robert Hettinga" 
Subject: Re: EduFUD: Computers, software can harm emotional, social development
Message-ID: <199810012200.SAA19389@mx02.together.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On 10/1/98 2:50 PM, Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com)  passed this 
wisdom:

>I guess I know too many stone geniuses who've had computers since they were
>children -- most of the people on this list were raised that way, I would
>bet -- to take this crap too seriously, reduced attention "spans" or not.
>
>By the way, "span" is the wrong word for ADD. I was hardly raised on TV,
>much less computers, (I had my face in science fiction books throughout
>most of my childhood), and I've been known to focus on something
>"inappropriately" for hours.

 Ever since I discovered my ADHD some two or three years after I started 
working with ADHD kids in the our school district a lot of things began 
to make sense.  But I came to realize and now make it a point to tell 
these kids that taken as a whole ADD/ADHD is a blessing more so than a 
curse. The ability to hyper-focus on a task at hand gives you the power 
to do in a few hours sometimes things it would take others a day or more 
to do. For the truly ADD kid (as opposed to the culturally induced 
variety) the hell he has gone through and the incredible low self-esteen 
they generally have, just hearing that is often enough to make a radical 
turn-around for them.

>While I certainly have varying degrees of control of my attention, but I
>just don't see that a "handicap" anymore. My attention is event-driven,
>rather than processed in neat organized batches, and I've learned to like
>it that way, even if it did give me trouble when I was chained in the
>aforementioned tower's dungeon for most of my formative years.
>
>Besides, even if computers cause people to have event-driven attention
>rather than in nice neat industrial batches, that's probably a Good
>Thing(tm). Consider it evolution in action.
>
>Farmers and mechanics may need "control" of their attention, but in an
>information "hunter" like myself, most of the people who do anything useful
>on the net, it's a selective disadvantage.

   ... amen!!!


Brian B. Riley --> http://members.macconnect.com/~brianbr
 For PGP Keys  

 "The 2nd amendment guarantees all the rest."





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 20:03:52 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A19284725@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I wrote:
> > Show me an example of an unregulated coercive monopoly 
> > whose source of monopoly power is not ultimately the 
> > government.

Jim Choate answered:
> The Mafia. The handful of world-class coke dealers. Your local church.

The church had a monopoly on religion. Not any more. When it had it was
supported by the state or by its own use of force. The other two
organizations use force to maintain their monopoly, and again both are
supported indirectly (sometimes more directly than we like to think) by
the state. The state prohibits free competition, it is a black market.

When I talk of a free market I man Laissez Faire Capitalism, not
Anarcho-Capitalism. The abolition of force is a requisite (and the only
proper role of government). A large company can maintain a monopoly by
force (more often than not the government is the instrument of force,
the legalization of coercive monopoly power).

	Matt






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 18:50:40 +0800
To: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Subject: Re: EduFUD: Computers, software can harm emotional, socialdevelopment
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 6:07 PM -0500 10/1/98, Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote:

>the whole image of parents limiting how much their children
>can surf the net is quite amusing to me. it's like trying
>to push a river.

	Would you say the same thing about television?

	As much of a fan of Computers, reading, and education as I am, I
also think kids need "peer interaction", and "physical exercise", as
strange as those things may sound to people.

	Yes, our current school system is based on the "Factory" workflow,
show up at x time, take your place on the production line, plug square
holes on top of round pegs for 7.5 hours, and then go home. On the
otherhand sticking children in Veal Pens for 6 hours a day isn't the answer.

	Our children don't need computers nearly as much as they need
teachers who can speak and write properly. Good typing skills are no
substitue for a good brain. Our children don't need computers nearly as
much as they need teachers who can explain algebra and geometery. I don't
care how well you can program your HP-48, you have to know WHICH, WHEN, and
WHY to use certain formulas.

	Wiring the schools to the internet is not about education, it's
about control and lazy teachers.

	Finding information is easy, processing it--sorting, labeling,
priortizing & etc--are what the schools should be teaching.

>oh, the terror! kids might even get bored with our cultures 2 great
>opiates: sports and entertainment.  who knows what will
>happen then?  tyranny is held in place by frivolous and
>meaningless pastimes and amusements in our world.

	It seems that more and more "kids" are giving themselves over to
those two opiates.

>fortunately, PCs and the internet are now an unstoppable
>force. we will see soon what happens when it meets many

	Y2K just might stop it dead in it's tracks.
--
petro@playboy.com----for work related issues. I don't speak for Playboy.
petro@bounty.org-----for everthing else.      They wouldn't like that.
                                              They REALLY
Economic speech IS political speech.          wouldn't like that.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 18:17:38 +0800
To: Petro 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 4:13 PM -0400 on 10/1/98, Petro wrote:


> At 1:50 PM -0500 10/1/98, Robert Hettinga wrote:
>
> 	If you (and others) are going to forward this kind of stuff, could
> you least foucs long enough to make sure it is properly formatted?
>
> 	It's a touch difficult to read.

Actually, that was the point.

It came to me that way. Most of these educrats don't know how to use their
email yet. :-).

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga

-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 18:18:55 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Is the .to (Tonga) domain completely rogue and should beremoved?
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 15:57:48 -0400
Reply-To: egullich@tonic.to
Originator: com-priv@lists.psi.com
Sender: com-priv@lists.psi.com
Precedence: bulk
From: egullich@tonic.to (Eric Gullichsen)
To: Multiple recipients of list 
Subject: Re: Is the .to (Tonga) domain completely rogue and should be removed?
X-Comment:  Commercialization and Privatization of the Internet


This is an official reply to Barry Shein 
who recently cross-posted to inet-access@earth.com, nanog@merit.edu,
domain-policy@lists.internic.net, and com-priv@psi.com under the
Subject heading: Is the .to (Tonga) domain completely rogue and should
be removed?

As TLD admin for the .TO ccTLD, I thought Mr. Shein's posting
deserved a reply.

---------------------------------------------------------------------


Mr. Shein:

I am the hostmaster and Administrative, Technical and Zone Contact
at Tonic, the top level domain name registration authority for the
.TO country code (http://rs.internic.net/cgi-bin/whois?to5-dom).

Since June 1997, our automated domain name registry at http://www.tonic.to
has been facilitating the registration of .TO names as a service
to the global Internet community. Neither Tonic nor IANA policy requires the
registered owner of a .TO name to be physically situated in the Kingdom
of Tonga.

>We've been having increasing problems with one or more porn sites in the
>.to domain promoting itself by massive spamming of
>AOL customers using one of our domains in their From: header thus causing
>both complaints to us and thousands of bounces
>from AOL due to bad AOL addresses in their spam lists.

We are sorry to hear that you have been having problem with SPAM
involving a .TO domain, and wish to draw your attention to the fact
that .TO is the *only* top level domain we know of with an explicit antispam
policy. We at Tonic feel strongly about spam, and believe it to be theft
of service, and a very bad thing for the net in general.

It is our policy to terminate the registration of a domain name
involved in spam, after warning the domain name holder to cease
unsolicited bulk mailings that involve a .TO name.

>From our FAQ (at http://www.tonic.to/faq.htm):

   Q: I'm a spammer. Is a .TO domain something I should use?

   Tonic feels very strongly that the sending of unsolicited bulk email
   ("spamming") constitutes theft of service, and we do not condone the
   use of .TO domain names for this purpose.

   If we receive complaints that a .TO domain name has been used for
   this purpose, we will advise the domain owner of the complaint and
   request that they desist from this activity. Tonic reserves the right
   to remove any .TO name registration if a name is used as a source of spam,
   or an address to which to reply to such bulk mail solicitations.

We have had to delete a number of .TO domains for egregious SPAM and will
continue to do so in the cases where a stern warning fails to solve
the problem. Please send a copy of any SPAM involving a .TO domain name
to:  hostmaster@tonic.to and we will warn the spammer and/or terminate
the domain name registration.

>Looking at the .to domain I can't help but notice it's heavily laden with
>what appear to be porn sites (sexonline.to, come.to,
>xxxhardcore.to, etc.)

The .COM domain is no less "heavily laden" with porn sites.
You will note that sexonline.com and xxxhardcore.com are names registered
with the InterNIC.  The come.to site is a free web redirection site
supporting more than 100,000 customers.  Furthermore, Tonic is a domain
name registry, not a content censor.

>In support of this assertion I want to show you an SMTP conversation with
>what claims to be the Consulate of the
>Government of Tonga in San Francisco (This San Francisco office is listed
>as an official Tongan contact point for visas etc by
>the US State Dept):
>
>world% telnet sfconsulate.gov.to 25
>
>Trying 209.24.51.169...
>Connected to sfconsulate.gov.to.
>Escape character is '^]'.
>220 colo.to SMTP ready, Who are you gonna pretend to be today? VRFY
postmaster
>500 Bloody Amateur! Proper forging of mail requires recognizable SMTP
>commands!

The primary nameserver for .TO is physically located at the Consulate of
Tonga in San Francisco. On all our machines, we run the Obtuse smtpd/smtpfwdd
SMTP store and forward proxy (http://www.obtuse.com/smtpd.html) to
secure our port 25 and thereby prevent 3rd party mail relaying.

Your reasoning as to why its responses to incorrect SMTP
commands constitutes evidence that the .TO domain is "negligent",
"mismanaged" and "an attractive resource for criminal activities"
is ironically incorrect. In fact, having an *unsecured* port 25 open to mail
relaying would be negligent.

Best regards,

- Eric Gullichsen
  Tonic Corporation
  Kingdom of Tonga Network Information Center
  http://www.tonic.to
  Email: egullich@tonic.to

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 18:20:44 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: New ExecOrd: Computer Software Piracy
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Delivered-To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
X-Sender: believer@telepath.com
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 15:50:05 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com
From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: New ExecOrd: Computer Software Piracy
Mime-Version: 1.0
Sender: owner-ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
Precedence: list
Reply-To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  US Newswire
http://www.usnewswire.com/topnews/Current_Releases/1001-125.txt

Clinton Issues Executive Order on Computer Software Piracy
U.S. Newswire
1 Oct 14:10

 Clinton Issues Executive Order on Computer Software Piracy
 To: National Desk, Technology Writer
 Contact: White House Press Office, 202-456-2100

   WASHINGTON, Oct. 1 /U.S. Newswire/ -- The following was released
today by the White House:

                       EXECUTIVE ORDER
                        - - - - - - -
                   COMPUTER SOFTWARE PIRACY

     The United States Government is the world's largest purchaser of
computer-related services and equipment, purchasing more than $20
billion annually.  At a time when a critical component in discussions
with our international trading partners concerns their efforts to
combat piracy of computer software and other intellectual property,
it is incumbent on the United States to ensure that its own practices
as a purchaser and user of computer software are beyond reproach.
Accordingly, by the authority vested in me as President by the
Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, it is
hereby ordered as follows:

     Section 1.  Policy.  It shall be the policy of the United States
Government that each executive agency shall work diligently to
prevent and combat computer software piracy in order to give effect
to copyrights associated with computer software by observing the
relevant provisions of international agreements in effect in the
United States, including applicable provisions of the World Trade
Organization Agreement on Trade-Related Aspects of Intellectual
Property Rights, the Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary
and Artistic Works, and relevant provisions of Federal law, including
the Copyright Act.

     (a) Each agency shall adopt procedures to ensure that the agency
does not acquire, reproduce, distribute, or transmit computer
software in violation of applicable copyright laws.

     (b) Each agency shall establish procedures to ensure that the
agency has present on its computers and uses only computer software
not in violation of applicable copyright laws.  These procedures may
include:

     (1) preparing agency inventories of the software present on its
computers;

     (2) determining what computer software the agency has the
authorization to use; and

     (3) developing and maintaining adequate recordkeeping systems.

     (c) Contractors and recipients of Federal financial assistance,
including recipients of grants and loan guarantee assistance, should
have appropriate systems and controls in place to ensure that Federal
funds are not used to acquire, operate, or maintain computer software
in violation of applicable copyright laws.  If agencies become aware
that contractors or recipients are using Federal funds to acquire,
operate, or maintain computer software in violation of copyright laws
and determine that such actions of the contractors or recipients may
affect the integrity of the agency's contracting and Federal
financial assistance processes, agencies shall take such measures,
including the use of certifications or written assurances, as the
agency head deems appropriate and consistent with the requirements of
law.

     (d) Executive agencies shall cooperate fully in implementing
this order and shall share information as appro-priate that may be
useful in combating the use of computer software in violation of
applicable copyright laws.

     Sec. 2.  Responsibilities of Agency Heads.  In connection with
the acquisition and use of computer software, the head of each
executive agency shall:

     (a) ensure agency compliance with copyright laws protecting
computer software and with the provisions of this order to ensure
that only authorized computer software is acquired for and used on
the agency's computers;

     (b) utilize performance measures as recommended by the Chief
Information Officers Council pursuant to section 3 of this order to
assess the agency's compliance with this order;

     (c) educate appropriate agency personnel regarding copyrights
protecting computer software and the policies and procedures adopted
by the agency to honor them; and

     (d) ensure that the policies, procedures, and practices of the
agency related to copyrights protecting computer software are
adequate and fully implement the policies set forth in this order.

     Sec. 3.  Chief Information Officers Council.  The Chief
Information Officers Council ("Council") established by section 3 of
Executive Order No. 13011 of July 16, 1996, shall be the principal
interagency forum to improve executive agency practices regarding the
acquisition and use of computer software, and monitoring and
combating the use of unauthorized computer software.  The Council
shall provide advice and make recommendations to executive agencies
and to the Office of Management and Budget regarding appropriate
government-wide measures to carry out this order. The Council shall
issue its initial recommendations within 6 months of the date of this
order.

     Sec. 4.  Office of Management and Budget.  The Director of the
Office of Management and Budget, in carrying out responsibilities
under the Clinger-Cohen Act, shall utilize appropriate oversight
mechanisms to foster agency compliance with the policies set forth in
this order.  In carrying out these responsibilities, the Director
shall consider any recommendations made by the Council under section
3 of this order regarding practices and policies to be instituted on
a government-wide basis to carry out this order.

     Sec. 5.  Definition.  "Executive agency" and "agency" have the
meaning given to that term in section 4(1) of the Office of Federal
Procurement Policy Act (41 U.S.C. 403(1)).

     Sec. 6.  National Security.  In the interest of national
security, nothing in this order shall be construed to require the
disclosure of intelligence sources or methods or to otherwise impair
the authority of those agencies listed at 50 U.S. 401a(4) to carry
out intelligence activities.

     Sec. 7.  Law Enforcement Activities.  Nothing in this order
shall be construed to require the disclosure of law enforcement
investigative sources or methods or to prohibit or otherwise impair
any lawful investigative or protective activity undertaken for or by
any officer, agent, or employee of the United States or any person
acting pursuant to a contract or other agreement with such entities.

     Sec. 8.  Scope.  Nothing in this order shall be construed to
limit or otherwise affect the interpretation, application, or
operation of 28 U.S.C. 1498.

     Sec. 9.  Judicial Review.  This Executive order is intended only
to improve the internal management of the executive branch and does
not create any right or benefit, substantive or procedural, at law or
equity by a party against the United States, its agencies or
instrumentalities, its officers or employees, or any other person.

                       WILLIAM J. CLINTON

  THE WHITE HOUSE,
      September 30, 1998.

 -0-
 /U.S. Newswire  202-347-2770/
 10/01 14:10

Copyright 1998, U.S. Newswire
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




**********************************************
To subscribe or unsubscribe, email:
     majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com
with the message:
     (un)subscribe ignition-point email@address
**********************************************
www.telepath.com/believer
**********************************************

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 19:18:00 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: IP: Clear and present danger: FIGHT AGAINST NATIONAL ID CARD (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810020019.TAA22375@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Subject: IP: Clear and present danger: FIGHT AGAINST NATIONAL ID CARD
> Date: Thu, 01 Oct 98 16:50:32 -0700
> From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 

>                     "Our Founding Fathers intended to create a system with
> division of
>                     power between three branches of government and between
> the state and
>                     federal governments in order to protect our rights.

Three branches of government? Between the state and federal?

I don't think so...

There are *THREE* (3) EQUALY powered members in the government of the United
States of America; federal, state, and the people.

The federal level is split into three seperate branches, they as single
entitities are NOT the federal government.

 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

We, the People of the United States, in order to form a more perfect Union, 
establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common 
defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to 
ourselves and our Posterity do ordain and establish this Constitution for the 
United States of America. 
 
	This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall 
be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, 
under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the 
Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the 
Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.
 
				ARTICLE IX. 
 
	The enumeration of the Constitution, of certain rights, shall 
not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people. 
 
				ARTICLE X. 
 
	The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, 
nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, 
or to the people. 


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 14:23:20 +0800
To: tcmay@got.net
Subject: Re: Toto -- mimic function or the real thing (Re: no subject)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199810011912.UAA08256@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Tim May writes:
> At 5:09 PM -0700 9/28/98, Adam Back wrote:
> >Dunno, but that sure looks like authentic Toto doesn't it (and the
> >rest of the long post of which excerpt quoted above).  [...] or is
> >rather good at imitating his writing style manually
> 
> Crap. I detected this as ersatz Toto after a couple of paragraphs.
> Metaphors were too strained, or something. It just seemed fake.

It wasn't perfect Toto, but it's the best one we've seen yet, I think.

Writing style appears to be hard to mimic, or at least I find it hard.
Toto I think is harder to mimic than most, his style is very
distinctive, but somehow still hard to mimic.

We have seen high quality John Young mimics, which would pass as the
real thing.  But there seems to be something harder about Toto's
style.

I had a go at mimicing Toto for posting to the list (anonymously), but
the output was so obviously not Toto that I scrapped it and deleted
it.

And this is just manual writing style analysis.  NSA letter triple
based analysis, one presumes would be much better.

btw. I suspected a couple of the anonymous replies to one of the
spammers / AOLers looked a bit like Tim May writing style.  (The one
with lots of ! in them -- perhaps it is that Klaus von Future prime!
likes exclamation marks).

I have been thinking about this problem on and off, as it is a problem
for nyms (especially where the true name has been rather vocal already
to provide lots of samples) and I invite comments on the merits of the
following as an approach to reducing leakage of writing style:

Create a multiple choice sentence constructor (say CGI web page with
pull down menus for subject, verb, adjective etc).  Plus text boxes
for less common nouns, names etc.

Apparently during the war soldiers were handed post cards where one
could tick a few boxes ("[ ] I am doing ok / [ ] I blah") for some
reason.

Seems the formally restricted choice of adjectives etc would be less
expresive but perhaps go some reasonable way to frustrate writing
analysis.

Adam




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 19:34:18 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: DTRA, Terrorism, Digital Daily
Message-ID: <199810020026.UAA06931@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



DoD rolled out today the new Defense Threat Reduction
Agency which combines several agencies -- Defense
Special Weapons Agency, Defense Technology Security 
Administration, On-Site Inspection Agency and others --
into a new organization whose principle purpose will be
to control the spread of technologies of mass destruction.

See remarks made at the opening ceremony by Hamre 
and others:

   http://jya.com/dtra100198.htm

And the new, informative DTRA Web site:

   http://www.dtra.mil

The briefing remarks are of interest for what they disclose
about military planning for combating domestic terrorism 
(parallel to what the FBI said about it yesterday), promises 
to speed export licensing and a passing reference by Hamre 
to "a recent ten month process of encryption policy review."
Which may refer to the recent administration policy 
announcement or maybe another in the works.

With the build-up of domestic terrorism fighting forces --
all the mil and gov agencies -- and noises about legislation
being developed for more, it's worth pondering what is
coming with a crackdown on domestic use of encryption.

The Canadian duplicitous announcement today may offer
a clue to what's being secretly agreed upon internationallly: 
state there will be no domestic controls (to assure privacy
and secure commerce) coupled with promises to ease export 
limits (to assure commercial producers), then contradict that
with a statement about new legislation to criminalize
encryption use in the name of "public safety" and provision
for access to encrypted data (to assure national security and 
law enforcement).

Tell all parties what they want to hear in public, then arrange
for what's really going to happen in secrecy among those
responsible parties who know how to bear the terrible burden
of keeping society safe and sound.

Which brings up Time's new "Digital Daily" replacement for
Netley News. News seems to have been eliminated in
favor of entertaining fluff and product promo, even worse
than "mainstream" Time itself. What's up Declan? Has the 
ghost of Luce come back to order Time online to shut up 
reporting unpleasant nefaria and get on with narcotizing 
the masses via Luce's incomparable coy language of
insider duplicity? 






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 20:19:30 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810020122.UAA22791@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: Matthew James Gering 
> Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
> Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 18:01:23 -0700 

> I wrote:
> > > Show me an example of an unregulated coercive monopoly 
> > > whose source of monopoly power is not ultimately the 
> > > government.
> 
> Jim Choate answered:
> > The Mafia. The handful of world-class coke dealers. Your local church.
> 
> The church had a monopoly on religion.

Churches monopolize faith (but let's not go there).

> Not any more.

Tell that to the Isreali's and the Arab's, the Serbs and the Slav's, The
Hutu's and the whoever they are I can't think of at the moment, the Irish
Protestants and Catholics, etc., etc., ad nausium...

 When it had it was
> supported by the state or by its own use of force. The other two

force is one form of coercion, faith can be another.

> organizations use force to maintain their monopoly, and again both are
> supported indirectly (sometimes more directly than we like to think) by
> the state. The state prohibits free competition, it is a black market.

A free-market is defined as consisting of the supplier and the consumer
without a regulatory body. It doesn't prohibit a third group *wanting* to
regulate that market. Or of either the producer or consumer using violence
to prevent it.

> When I talk of a free market I man Laissez Faire Capitalism, not
> Anarcho-Capitalism.

What's the specific difference? What is the fundamental litmus test between
a Laisez Faire and a Anarcho? In one case there is no recognized arch to be
had to regulate the market and in the other the third party simply opts out
of participating. In what way are the resulting markets different from
either the producers or consumers view?

> The abolition of force is a requisite (and the only
> proper role of government).

Explain further what you mean by abolition of force is a prerequisite
please.

And what specificaly do you mean by proper role of government?


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 20:49:10 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: [Fwd: Fw: Court Strikes Down Federal Mandates Again]
Message-ID: <199810020151.UAA22894@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> While I have not found this case decision posted anywhere but in this
> usenet posting, I have found some background info:
> http://www.rcfp.org/NMU/961216b.html

> Local Sovereignty Update
> US Court Again Upholds State Sovereignty and Strikes Down Federal =
> Mandate
> This month we have another case in which the federal courts have =
> recognized that the federal government has no authority to impose any =
> mandate on state or local government.
> Printz v. US ruled that  '[t]he Federal Government may neither issue =
> directives requiring the States to address particular problems, nor =
> command the States' officers, or those of their political subdivisions, =
> to administer or enforce a federal regulatory program.'   That across =
> the board prohibition is simply being applied to various federal =
> mandates one after the other.=20
> =20
> CONDON v US,  Decided: September 3, 1998 =20
> 
> =20
> In 1994 Congress passed the Driver's Privacy Protection Act (DPPA), =
> which tried to set federal standards governing how and when information =
> in driving records could be released.   The DPPA said that  "Any State =
> department of motor vehicles that has a policy or practice of =
> substantial noncom- pliance . . . shall be subject to a civil penalty =
> imposed by the Attorney General of not more than $5,000 a day."=20
> =20
> South Carolina, joined by several other states, refused to implement the =
> Driver's Privacy Protection Act (DPPA), and sued the Federal government =
> in US Court demanding that the law be recognized by the federal courts =
> as a violation of the Tenth and Eleventh Amendments to the United States =
> Constitution.
> =20
> The Fourth Circuit Court struck down DPPA ruling that
> 
> 
> "Under our system of dual sovereignty, "[t]he powers not delegated to =
> the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the =
> States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." U.S. =
> Const. amend. X. Because Congress lacked the authority to enact the DPPA =
> under either the Commerce Clause or Section 5 of the Fourteenth =
> Amendment, we affirm the judgment of the district court."
> 
> 
> The Court also stated plainly that: "Congress may not enact any law that =
> would direct the functioning of the States' executives or legislatures." =
> 
> 
> Citing the New York and Printz cases the court said that the Supreme =
> Court's ruling with respect to federal mandates "has been a model of =
> consistency."=20
> 
> Some of the more important quotes from the case follow:
> 
> 
> In New York v. United States, 505 U.S. 144 (1992)  the Supreme Court =
> held that Congress could not "commandeer[ ] the legislative processes of =
> the States by directly compelling them to enact and enforce a federal =
> regulatory program."  ... In Printz v. US the court held "that Congress =
> cannot circumvent that prohibition by conscripting the State's officers =
> directly." Id. at 2384. The Court went on to note that  '[t]he Federal =
> Government may neither issue directives requiring the States to address =
> particular problems, nor command the States' officers, or those of their =
> political subdivisions, to administer or enforce a federal regulatory =
> program.' "
> =20
> 
> "The Supreme Court, in both New York and Printz, has made it perfectly =
> clear that the Federal Government may not require State officials to =
> administer a federal regulatory program."
> 
> 
> "Although Congress has regulated the disclosure of personal information =
> by some private parties, the Constitution permits Congress to regulate =
> the conduct of individuals. In contrast, Congress may not, as a general =
> matter, regulate the conduct of the States. See New York, 505 U.S. at =
> 166 ("[T]he Framers explicitly chose a Constitution that confers upon =
> Congress the power to regulate individuals, not States." (quoted with =
> approval in Printz, 117 S. Ct. at 2377)). "
> 
> "The United States also contends that the DPPA was properly enacted =
> pursuant to Congress's power under Section 5 of the Four- teenth =
> Amendment. In light of the Supreme Court's landmark decision in City of =
> Boerne v. Flores, 117 S. Ct. 2157 (1997), we are constrained to =
> disagree."
> 
> Congress's power to enact legislation under the Fourteenth Amendment is =
> not unlimited, however. See, e.g. , City of Boerne v. Flores, 117 S. Ct. =
> 2157, 2171 (1997) (holding that the Religious Freedom Restoration Act is =
> "a considerable congressional intrusion into the States' traditional =
> prerogatives," and that Congress exceeded its power under the Fourteenth =
> Amendment in enacting the statute); Gregory v. Ashcroft, 501 U.S. 452, =
> 469 (1991) (stating that "the Four- teenth Amendment does not override =
> all principles of federalism"); Oregon v. Mitchell, 400 U.S. 112, 128 =
> (1970) (noting that "[a]s broad as the congressional enforcement power =
> is, it is not unlimited"). For instance, Congress's power "extends only =
> to enforc[ing] the provi- sions of the Fourteenth Amendment." City of =
> Boerne, 117 S. Ct. at 2164 (emphasis added) (internal quotation marks =
> omitted). Of perhaps equal importance, it is only a preventative or =
> remedial power, not a substantive power. See id. at 2167. As a result, =
> Congress does not possess "the power to determine what constitutes a =
> constitutional violation." Id. at 2164.=20
> 
> 
> "neither the Supreme Court nor this Court has ever found a =
> constitutional right to privacy with respect to the type of information =
> found in motor vehicle records.   Accordingly, Congress did not have the =
> authority under Section 5 of the Fourteenth Amendment to enact the =
> DPPA."


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Lucky Green 
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 14:13:51 +0800
To: Vincent Cate 
Subject: Re: Wire transfers from web page?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Wed, 30 Sep 1998, Vincent Cate wrote:
 
> How about a bank on the Internet that will accept instructions to write
> and mail a check drawn on your account to any random person at any
> address? 

That's actually pretty common.

-- Lucky Green  PGP v5 encrypted email preferred.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 14:21:37 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!...
Message-ID: <199810011922.VAA29274@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> Personally, I favor the "Pournelle Solution": acquire a 10-mile by 10-mile
> region of the Mojave Desert. Not in an "ecologically interesting" area of
> Death Valley, but just out in the vast scrublands. Erect a double fence
> around it, and perhaps even a minefield (if one is worried about thefts of
> nuclear waste). Pile the spent fuel rods, medical gear, gloves, etc. on
> pallets separated  by wide roads from other pallets. This "solves" the
> waste problem for at least a matter of many decades, by which time various
> technologies will likely have presented other and better solutions. Cost is
> low, convenience is high, safety is good, environmental polllution is nil.

So what do you do when it rains?

It does rain in the Mojave desert, you know.  And it rains hard,
in the summer thunderstorm season.  That's a lot of water to sluice
away radioactive material into the washes and arroyos, leading down to
populated areas.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 15:41:17 +0800
To: petro@playboy.com
Subject: copyright at the point of a gun
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199810012027.VAA09013@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Christopher Petro writes:
> 	I never said they should, however in this case I will make the
> arguement that the Feds DID have something to do with creating the
> Jaggernaut called M$, and that they could also fix Billys little redmond
> wagon without a court case shoud they wish.

On the Feds buying M$ software (no big deal ... if it suits them let
them buy it).

The real subsidy of M$ and any software vendor is the copyright,
patent, and license enforcement mechanism provided by the government.

Don't forget that copyright enforcement boils down to thugs with guns
coming to lock you up.

In a crypto-anarchic society concepts such as copyright, license and
patents have little meaning because the obvious statement of reality
is that once you have released something to another individual, you
lose all control over it.

With strong anonymity, ecash and so on, even things like GNU, patents,
export controls whatever can be swept away for individuals, and for
anonymous companies.  GNU license?  No problem, just ignore the
license.  Copright?  No problem just ignore the copyright notices,
strip them off.  Patents?  Ignore them to.

If people still buy software, or support contracts from anonymous
companies who ignore patents, well that is the market deciding what it
thinks of copyright.

Judging by the state of software-piracy with PC software with 80-90%+
piracy rates, the market is already pretty much ok with ignoring
copyright, and would be happy to have no copyrights.

The bounty scheme, support contracts are much closer to the natural
schelling points in a free society than "enforcement" of bit flow, and
ideas.

FSF is the first wave.

Adam




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 15:47:54 +0800
To: rah@shipwright.com
Subject: importance of motivation (Re: EduFUD: Computers, software can harm emotional, social development)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199810012036.VAA09025@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Robert Hettinga writes:
> By the way, "span" is the wrong word for ADD. I was hardly raised on TV,
> much less computers, (I had my face in science fiction books throughout
> most of my childhood), and I've been known to focus on something
> "inappropriately" for hours.
> 
> While I certainly have varying degrees of control of my attention, but I
> just don't see that a "handicap" anymore. My attention is event-driven,
> rather than processed in neat organized batches, and I've learned to like
> it that way, even if it did give me trouble when I was chained in the
> aforementioned tower's dungeon for most of my formative years.

That doesn't sound like ADD, that sounds like human nature.  People
pay attention and focus on what interests them.

Some things I drag through slowly and put off because they are boring,
other things (say like eternity servers), when I have a new idea, I do
more in 3 days (@ 20 hours/day) than I would otherwise do in a month
on a boring project.  I suspect many programmer types are similar,
interest in the job is all important.  This phenomena motivates quotes
like Attila's one about managing programmers being like "herding cats".

I don't see why a ecash advocate, evangelist, and writer should have
a different experience.

(Or do I have ADD too?)

btw. you should read (if you haven't) this piece distributed with
emacs attached below.  I find it rings very true.

Adam

% cat /usr/share/emacs/19.31/etc/MOTIVATION
STUDIES FIND REWARD OFTEN NO MOTIVATOR

Creativity and intrinsic interest diminish if task is done for gain

By Alfie Kohn
Special to the Boston Globe
[reprinted with permission of the author
 from the Monday 19 January 1987 Boston Globe]

In the laboratory, rats get Rice Krispies.  In the classroom the top
students get A's, and in the factory or office the best workers get
raises.  It's an article of faith for most of us that rewards promote
better performance.

But a growing body of research suggests that this law is not nearly as
ironclad as was once thought.  Psychologists have been finding that
rewards can lower performance levels, especially when the performance
involves creativity.

A related series of studies shows that intrinsic interest in a task -
the sense that something is worth doing for its own sake - typically
declines when someone is rewarded for doing it.

If a reward - money, awards, praise, or winning a contest - comes to
be seen as the reason one is engaging in an activity, that activity
will be viewed as less enjoyable in its own right.

With the exception of some behaviorists who doubt the very existence
of intrinsic motivation, these conclusions are now widely accepted
among psychologists.  Taken together, they suggest we may unwittingly
be squelching interest and discouraging innovation among workers,
students and artists.

The recognition that rewards can have counter-productive effects is
based on a variety of studies, which have come up with such findings
as these: Young children who are rewarded for drawing are less likely
to draw on their own that are children who draw just for the fun of
it.  Teenagers offered rewards for playing word games enjoy the games
less and do not do as well as those who play with no rewards.
Employees who are praised for meeting a manager's expectations suffer
a drop in motivation.

Much of the research on creativity and motivation has been performed
by Theresa Amabile, associate professor of psychology at Brandeis
University.  In a paper published early last year on her most recent
study, she reported on experiments involving elementary school and
college students.  Both groups were asked to make "silly" collages.
The young children were also asked to invent stories.

The least-creative projects, as rated by several teachers, were done
by those students who had contracted for rewards.  "It may be that
commissioned work will, in general, be less creative than work that is
done out of pure interest," Amabile said.

In 1985, Amabile asked 72 creative writers at Brandeis and at Boston
University to write poetry.  Some students then were given a list of
extrinsic (external) reasons for writing, such as impressing teachers,
making money and getting into graduate school, and were asked to think
about their own writing with respect to these reasons.  Others were
given a list of intrinsic reasons:  the enjoyment of playing with
words, satisfaction from self-expression, and so forth.  A third group
was not given any list.  All were then asked to do more writing.

The results were clear.  Students given the extrinsic reasons not only
wrote less creatively than the others, as judged by 12 independent
poets, but the quality of their work dropped significantly.  Rewards,
Amabile says, have this destructive effect primarily with creative
tasks, including higher-level problem-solving.  "The more complex the
activity, the more it's hurt by extrinsic reward," she said.

But other research shows that artists are by no means the only ones
affected.

In one study, girls in the fifth and sixth grades tutored younger
children much less effectively if they were promised free movie
tickets for teaching well.  The study, by James Gabarino, now
president of Chicago's Erikson Institute for Advanced Studies in Child
Development, showed that tutors working for the reward took longer to
communicate ideas, got frustrated more easily, and did a poorer job in
the end than those who were not rewarded.

Such findings call into question the widespread belief that money is
an effective and even necessary way to motivate people.  They also
challenge the behaviorist assumption that any activity is more likely
to occur if it is rewarded.  Amabile says her research "definitely
refutes the notion that creativity can be operantly conditioned."

But Kenneth McGraw, associate professor of psychology at the
University of Mississippi, cautions that this does not mean
behaviorism itself has been invalidated.  "The basic principles of
reinforcement and rewards certainly work, but in a restricted context"
- restricted, that is, to tasks that are not especially interesting.

Researchers offer several explanations for their surprising findings
about rewards and performance.

First, rewards encourage people to focus narrowly on a task, to do it
as quickly as possible and to take few risks.  "If they feel that
'this is something I hve to get through to get the prize,' the're
going to be less creative," Amabile said.

Second, people come to see themselves as being controlled by the
reward.  They feel less autonomous, and this may interfere with
performance.  "To the extent one's experience of being
self-determined is limited," said Richard Ryan, associate psychology
professor at the University of Rochester, "one's creativity will be
reduced as well."

Finally, extrinsic rewards can erode intrinsic interest.  People who
see themselves as working for money, approval or competitive success
find their tasks less pleasurable, and therefore do not do them as
well.

The last explanation reflects 15 years of work by Ryan's mentor at the
University of Rochester, Edward Deci.  In 1971, Deci showed that
"money may work to buy off one's intrinsic motivation for an activity"
on a long-term basis.  Ten years later, Deci and his colleagues
demonstrated that trying to best others has the same effect.  Students
who competed to solve a puzzle quickly were less likely than those who
were not competing to keep working at it once the experiment was over.

Control plays role

There is general agreement, however, that not all rewards have the
same effect.  Offering a flat fee for participating in an experiment -
similar to an hourly wage in the workplace - usually does not reduce
intrinsic motivation.  It is only when the rewards are based on
performing a given task or doing a good job at it - analogous to
piece-rate payment and bonuses, respectively - that the problem
develops.

The key, then, lies in how a reward is experienced.  If we come to
view ourselves as working to get something, we will no longer find
that activity worth doing in its own right.

There is an old joke that nicely illustrates the principle.  An
elderly man, harassed by the taunts of neighborhood children, finally
devises a scheme.  He offered to pay each child a dollar if they would
all return Tuesday and yell their insults again.  They did so eagerly
and received the money, but he told them he could only pay 25 cents on
Wednesday.  When they returned, insulted him again and collected their
quarters, he informed them that Thursday's rate would be just a penny.
"Forget it," they said - and never taunted him again.

Means to and end

In a 1982 study, Stanford psychologist Mark L. Lepper showed that any
task, no matter how enjoyable it once seemed, would be devalued if it
were presented as a means rather than an end.  He told a group of
preschoolers they could not engage in one activity they liked until
they first took part in another.  Although they had enjoyed both
activities equally, the children came to dislike the task that was a
prerequisite for the other.

It should not be surprising that when verbal feedback is experienced
as controlling, the effect on motivation can be similar to that of
payment.  In a study of corporate employees, Ryan found that those who
were told, "Good, you're doing as you /should/" were "significantly
less intrinsically motivated than those who received feedback
informationally."

There's a difference, Ryan says, between saying, "I'm giving you this
reward because I recognize the value of your work" and "You're getting
this reward because you've lived up to my standards."

A different but related set of problems exists in the case of
creativity.  Artists must make a living, of course, but Amabile
emphasizes that "the negative impact on creativity of working for
rewards can be minimized" by playing down the significance of these
rewards and trying not to use them in a controlling way.  Creative
work, the research suggests, cannot be forced, but only allowed to
happen.

/Alfie Kohn, a Cambridge, MA writer, is the author of "No Contest: The
Case Against Competition," recently published by Houghton Mifflin Co.,
Boston, MA.  ISBN 0-395-39387-6. /
%




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 15:53:53 +0800
To: sbryan@vendorsystems.com
Subject: reformatting C:\Washington-DC (Re: [RRE]Conference: Technological Visions)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199810012041.VAA09030@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Steve Bryan writes:
> Tim May
> >Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash.
> 
> If you reformat the drives, there's no need to empty the trash.

I suspect the quote was meant to imply that the "trash" would get
overwritten with 0s (or as this is cypherpunks overwritten with high
quality random number output, multiple times!)

(And if you want to be nitpicky about the metaphor, reformatting
doesn't overwrite with 0s, typically, so the trash and all would still
be there.)

Adam




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 16:02:06 +0800
To: petro@playboy.com
Subject: business regulatory burden (Re: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199810012045.VAA09036@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Christoper Petro writes:
> >If you seriously think this is a heavily regulated market you should do more
> >research into such places as Nazi Germany, Russia, China, etc.
> 
> 	France, England etc.
> 
> 	We are _going_ that route, with more and more regualtion being
> dumped on the backs of businesses daily.

Yup I can confirm that one for England.  I made the mistake of
registering a Ltd company to do crypto hacking through, and you would
not believe the mountain of forms they send you.  I reckon I must've
had order of a foot deep pile of paper sent to me since doing it.  As
a one man type operation, most of it can go straight in the trash, but
you've still got to sift it.

Adam




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 21:49:33 +0800
To: users@einstein.ssz.com (SSZ User Mail List)
Subject: INFO-RUSS: "Post-Soviet Science and Technology" class (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810020250.VAA23198@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:
>From INFO-RUSS-request@smarty.ece.jhu.edu Thu Oct  1 21:43:40 1998
Message-Id: <9810012329.AA25272@smarty.ece.jhu.edu>
Errors-To: INFO-RUSS-request@smarty.ece.jhu.edu
Sender: INFO-RUSS-request@smarty.ece.jhu.edu
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 15:19:28 -0700
To: info-russ@smarty.ece.jhu.edu
From: "Andrei G. Chakhovskoi" 
Subject: INFO-RUSS: "Post-Soviet Science and Technology" class

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Dear INFO-RUSS netters:

I am teaching a class on "Post-Soviet Science and Technology" at the
University of California at Davis.

If you can share any information, personal experience, or if you can point
to an information source relevant to the subject - please respond to the
message below.


This year, I begin teaching a class which talks about a recent history and
up-to-date changes in science, technology and ecology in Russia and the
republics of the former USSR.

This class is more like an "experimental" effort to take a look at the
current situation in scientific and technology field in former USSR. Being
involved for many years in high-tech research in Russian Academy of
Sciences as well as in several defense R&D institutions in Moscow and the
vicinity, I am naturally interested to learn what is happening there now.
Although I am working at UC Davis since 1992, I am still involved in a
number of collaborative projects with my former Russian and Ukranian
co-workers.

I was sharing my thoughts about the situation in Soviet science and
technology with my colleagues at UC Davis and Sandia NL, as well as with
scientists at various forums and conferences; and I found that there is
actually a big interest to this issue. Sometimes a spontaneous discussion
has originated from these conversations, leading to an invitation to give a
talk about the subject. People were interested to hear about current
challenges and difficulties faced by Russian scientists as well as about
intellectual and technological potential accumulated in Russia and former
USSR countries. And always the audience was interested to hear more
information and details than could be delivered in one single talk.

After a few talks I decided to expand the effort and I approached the
Teaching Resources Center at UC Davis with a proposal to originate an
interdepartmental seminar on this subject. The idea was welcomed, and the
seminar got approved for the Fall of 1998. Currently, this is one-quarter
(8 weeks) seminar for a small group of students (15 people) from different
specialities. Most of them are freshman who do not have chosen a major
speciality yet. Depending the success of this seminar it may eventually
grow into a bigger course.

The exact title of this seminar is "The Effects of the Changing Economy on
Technology and Ecology in Russia and New Independent Countries". The term
"Changing Economy" here is not just economy but also implies "State and
Political System". Although I will try to concentrate on science and
technology more than on politics and economy, I afraid that it will be
impossible to ignore political and economical issues, especially due to the
recent crisis in Russia.

Because of the nature of this seminar and the subject studied, there is no
solid curriculum or a single book which can be used throughout the quarter.
The students need to collect the most recent information from the Internet
and periodicals and they are encouraged to study and compare different
opinions obtained from various communication sources.

I do have a growing collection of WEB-links and press documents relevant to
the subject, but this collection is far from being complete. I will
appreciate it if you can point to the WEB-links, to newsgroups which
discuss relevant issues, or to documents which can be downloaded and used
for this class.

I will especially appreciate it if you have materials like photos, brief
videos, documents, magazines, newspapers which you can loan or share for
this seminar. If it involves copying expenses I can make copies of the
materials and return the originals, or I can provide a reimbursement for
copying/mailing expenses.

All the materials will be used for educational purpose only, the source or
the author of the material will be identified with a proper reference and
acknowledgement.

A very important part of this seminar is related to a personal experience
shared by people who are working or used to work in this field. I will
appreciate any documents of a personal matter - memories, stories which can
be shared with the students.

Also, I would like to invite interested parties to join a discussion as
invited speakers. I would like to invite somebody who was involved in joint
research/development projects between USA and Russia, who is working in the
field related to technology transfer and international scientific
collaboration, or who just has an experience working in high-tech field in
Russia to share his/her experience and feelings.

If anybody is living not very far from Davis, CA or traveling in Northern
California in October/November - I would be extremely delighted if you find
it possible to give a talk at this seminar.
We meet each Tuesday between October 6 and November 24.

Unfortunately, due to the size of the seminar the budget for this quarter
is quite limited so I will not be able to offer you a generous honorarium,
or fly you from New York or Boston, but at least I can reimburse you for
the travel from San Francisco Bay area / Silicon Valley (about $ 50).

Please e-mail me at chakhovs@ece.ucdavis.edu

Thanks and best regards,

Dr. Andrei G. Chakhovskoi
Lecturer / Research Scientist
University of California at Davis
Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 23:55:27 +0800
To: Rabid Wombat 
Subject: Re: New California Spam Law is Bullshit
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 12:20 AM -0700 9/30/98, Rabid Wombat wrote:
>Got an actual cite for this, or better yet a url to the actual statute?
>
>On Wed, 30 Sep 1998, Tim May wrote:
>
>> At 6:43 PM -0700 9/30/98, Max Inux wrote:
>> >On Wed, 30 Sep 1998 2001files@usa.net wrote:
>> >
>> >Dear spammer,
>> >
>> >Nice threats are attached to this spam.  I love new ideas from the
>> >spamming community. Please be aware by not  including a real human email
>> >address (specifically stated) and a 1800 number to call to be removed,
>> >you are in violation of California law.

It just got discussed on the CP list. Check yesterday's traffic.

(No, I won't do this research. Not because I'm being a hardass, but because
I deleted them after reading them.)

--Tim May

Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash.
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 21:10:55 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Echelon's Origin
Message-ID: <199810020204.WAA04835@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



The NSA released during the summer a Top Secret
memorandum by Truman in 1952 establishing NSA 
as the lead COMINT agency for the USG:

   http://jya.com/nsa102452.htm

After the dry description of decisionmaking procedures
there are tantalizing pointers to the means NSA is to
use to spy on foreign governments' communications, 
with reference to accommodating allies at NSA facilities
-- read it carefully.

Also, it's chilling to read that COMINT was so vital that
Truman declared it to be free from any constraints placed 
on all other forms of intelligence. And the DIRNSA was given
authority to command any military department or civilian
agency for COMINT purposes

It would be helpful to learn what superceded this memo for
authority to engage in global COMINT. Yes, we accept
anonymous contributions for COMINTers.

Erich Moechel writes that France has its version of Echelon
and wiretapping, and shares its fruits with Germany, in 
competition with the Echelon-Five. 

   The French have built up an Echelon like wiretapping system 
   of their own, operating from Dordogne (France), French Guayana 
   & Nouvelle Caledonie.

Would anyone have more information on this program? And what
about other Echelons around the world?






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "James A. Donald" 
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 00:49:50 +0800
To: Cypherpunks 
Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A1928471D@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
Message-ID: <199810020548.WAA02571@proxy3.ba.best.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



    --
At 02:18 PM 10/1/98 -0500, Kevin Elliott wrote:
> I'm afraid sir, that your ingonorance is showing.  Pick up
> any college (hell, high school) ecomonics textbook.
> Certain types of businesses are inheritly advantagious to
> monopolies.  The electric company is the classic example-
> their is no cost effective way for an electric company to
> supply power to a given area unless it is a monopoly.
> Certain types of businesses are suited to certain types of
> competition, and, unregulated, monopolies are exactly what
> you get.  This was exactly the situation that occured at 
> the turn of the century and it happened because regulation
> was non-existant!   

Bullshit.  No monopoly has ever happened except by regulation
I have no idea what you are referring to in your reference to
the turn of the century.  If you are referring to standard
oil, you are parroting silly communist propaganda with no
basis in reality.

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     jeE+LNH/f8RnmYDChWQ48wf3pqRR6WcCMCJYSUXI
     45eF2HkK+9DX6z7XPNhbGoHJc96S3SuJ9SBUnw+iJ
-----------------------------------------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because 
of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this 
right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.


http://www.jim.com/jamesd/      James A. Donald




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "James A. Donald" 
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 00:50:16 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: <199810020549.WAA04644@proxy3.ba.best.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> > Show me an example of an unregulated coercive monopoly
> > whose source of monopoly power is not ultimately the
> > government.

At 05:35 PM 10/1/98 -0500, Jim Choate wrote:
> The Mafia. The handful of world-class coke dealers. Your
> local church

In america the various mafias get plently of competition,
mostly by means short of actual warfare.  Coke is a free
market except for police intervention, and the local church
is most certainly not a monopoly.

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     oGREc6gOTKaJiYcMP+JEyW9SUvzFpjz79BkXyfAM
     4f+hqTPS/vPcpcTNefkMrftiYGG7rMXSAonNu7im6
-----------------------------------------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because 
of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this 
right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.


http://www.jim.com/jamesd/      James A. Donald




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Frantz 
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 01:37:52 +0800
To: Robert Hettinga 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 12:37 PM -0800 10/1/98, Robert Hettinga wrote:
>At 3:37 PM -0400 on 10/1/98, X wrote:
>
>
>> If the area you refer to is below sea-level, where would the hard-rains
>> runoff run off to?
>
>True enough. The water runs off the mountains *into* most of Death Valley,
>not *out* of it.

Where it evaporates.  Less than 10% humidity.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz       | If hate must be my prison  | Periwinkle -- Consulting
(408)356-8506     | lock, then love must be    | 16345 Englewood Ave.
frantz@netcom.com | the key.     - Phil Ochs   | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 17:05:13 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Been there....Done that....
Message-ID: <199810012154.XAA13706@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Hi Jenny672,

Wow, what a spectacular offer you've given us!  And guess what?
Today's your lucky day!  You know why?  I'll tell you.  See, I'm
independently wealthy, and so while I have no need to participate
in your scam, I've decided that it would definitely be worth $10,000
of my own money to have you and everyone else on your stinking
list killed!

I know, you're saying, "How does that make it my *lucky* day?"  The
reason you don't know is because you're brain dead.  So I'll tell you,
and you'll just have to believe me.  See, when you're dead, the world
will be a much better place.  Intelligent people everywhere will rejoice,
and maybe, just maybe, your excruciatingly painful and torturous
death will help bring people together in the common cause of killing
everyone else in the world like you.  So won't you be happy to know
that your death will bring about a better world?  It's your lucky day,
because you get to make the *whole world* a better place!

Thanks for the opportunity, my friend!  You've made my day!


At 01:14 PM 10/1/98 -0700, jenny672@usa.net wrote:
>Dear Friend,
>
>
>I want to share this with you, I am sure like me you have tried many
>different opportunities at home and most of them don't work, or they want
>more money than we can afford. I figured what's $5 when we have spent so
>much more.....
>
>Need some fast cash? Try this:
>
>*******************************************************************
>If you are prepared to read on, BE PREPARED TO GET EXCITED...YOU
>WON'T BE DISAPPOINTED!
>
>*******************************************************************
>Read the following and you will agree this is a very exciting
>opportunity. Only invest a little bit of time and your reward could
>mean thousands of dollars! Good luck!
>
>*********************************************************************
>
>$$$ ARE YOU IN NEED OF MONEY? RIGHT NOW? $$$
>$$$ HOW DOES US$10,000 IN TWO(2) WEEKS (or less) SOUND? $$$
>
>Don't laugh! This a very logical and rewarding opportunity! 
>One(1) hour of work to get started and NO MAILING LISTS!
>
>--------Esquire Marketing Newsletter Gift Club--------
>
>*********************************************************************
>
>If you need to make a few thousand dollars REALLY FAST, then please take
>a moment to read this simple program I am sharing with you. No, it is
>NOT what you think! YOU DO NOT have to send $5.00 to five people to buy
>a report, buy a recipe, or any other product. Nor will you need to
>invest more money later to get things going. THIS IS THE FASTEST,
>EASIEST PROGRAM YOU WILL EVER DO! Complete it in ONE HOUR and you will
>never forget the day you first received it. 
>
>--------This Is How It Works--------
>
>Unlike many other programs, this three-level program is more realistic
>and much, much faster. Because it is so easy, the response rate for this
>program is VERY HIGH and VERY FAST, and you will see results in two
>weeks or less! Just in time for next month's bills!
>
>You only mail out 20 copies ( not 200 or more as in other programs). You
>should also try to send them to PEOPLE WHO SEND YOU THEIR PROGRAMS
>because they know THESE PROGRAMS WORK and they are already believers
>in the system! Besides, this program is much, much FASTER and has a HIGHER
>RESPONSE RATE.
>
>Even if you are already in a similar program, STAY WITH IT, but do yourself a
>favor and DO THIS ONE as well. START RIGHT NOW! It's simple and takes
>a very small investment. It will pay off long before other letters even
>begin to trickle in!
>
>Just give ONE person a US $5.00 gift. That' s all!
>
>Follow the simple instructions and in TWO WEEKS you will have US $10,000
>in your bank account!!! Because of the LOW INVESTMENT, SPEED and HIGH
>PROFIT POTENTIAL, this program has a VERY HIGH RESPONSE RATE. JUST
>ONE (1) US$5.00 BILL. THAT'S YOUR INVESTMENT!
>
>+------+ Follow These Simple Instructions +------+
>
>1. On a blank sheet of paper write "Please add me to your mailing list."
>Write your name and address clearly and include your Email address (if
>you have one) for future mailings and courtesy follow ups. Fold it
>around a US $5 bill and send this to the FIRST name on the list (#1).
>Only the FIRST PERSON on the list gets YOUR NAME AND A FIVE DOLLAR
>GIFT.
>
>Note: This is a service and is 100% legal (Refer to US Postal & Lottery
>Laws, Title 18, Sections 1302 and 1341 or Title 18, Section 3005 in the
>US Code, also in the Code of Federal Regulations, Volume 16, Sections
>255 and 436, which state that "a product or service must be exchanged
>for money received.")
>
>2. Retype the list ONLY, REMOVING the FIRST (#1) NAME FROM THE LIST.
>Move the other two names UP and ADD YOUR NAME to the list in the
>THIRD(#3) position.
>
>3. Send out 20 copies of this letter. Note: By sending this letter via
>Email, the response time is much faster and you save the expense of
>envelopes, stamps, and copying services. Consider this, MILLIONS of
>people "surf the Internet" everyday, all day, all over the World! FIFTY
>THOUSAND new people get on the Internet every month! An excellent
>source of names is the people who send you other programs, and the names
>listed on the letter they send you. Your contact source is UNLIMITED.
>It boggles my mind to think of all the possibilities! Mail, or should I
>say Email, your letter TODAY! It's so easy,
>ONE HOUR of your time. THAT'S IT!
>
>To send your newsletter by Email:
>
>1. Go to "Edit" and "Select All"
>2. Go to "Edit" and "Copy"
>3. Start (compose) a new Email message
>4. Address your Email and Subject Blocks
>5. Go to "Edit" and "Paste"
>
>After you have pasted this article in your new Email, delete the old
>header and footer (Subject, Date, To, From, Etc..). Now you can edit
>the names and addresses with ease. I recommend deleting the top name,
>adding your name and address to the bottom of the list, then simply
>changing the numbers.
>
>THERE IS NOTHING MORE TO DO. When your name reaches the first position
>in a few days, it will be your turn to collect your gifts. The gifts
>will be sent to you by 1,500 to 2,000 people like yourself, who are
>willing to invest US$5.00 and one hour to receive US$10,000 in cash.
>That s all! There will be a total of US$10,000 (or more) in US$5.00
>bills in your mailbox in two weeks.
>US$10,000 for an hour's work! I think it s WORTH IT, don t you?
>
>GO AHEAD -- TRY IT. IT'S US$5.00! EVEN IF YOU JUST MAKE 3 OR 4
>THOUSAND, WOULDN'T THAT BE NICE?! IF YOU TRY IT, IT WILL PAY!!!!
>
>--------TRUE STORY--------
>
>Cindy Allen writes: I ran this gift summation four times last year.
>The first time I received over $7,000 in cash in less than two weeks and
>over $10,000 in cash in the next three times I ran it. I can't begin to
>tell you how great it feels not to have to worry about money anymore!
>I thank God for the day I received this letter! It has truly changed my
>life! Don t be afraid to make gifts to strangers, they'll come back to
>you ten-fold. So, let's keep it going and help each other in these "tough
>and uncertain times."
>
>Many of us just want to pay off our bills, buy a new car or buy a new
>home for our family. Whatever your reasons or needs are, this program
>worked for Cindy and thousands of others (just like you and I) time and
>time again! THIS PROGRAM CAN AND WILL WORK FOR YOU!!!
>
>--------Can I Do It Again? --------
>
>OF COURSE YOU CAN...This plan is structured for everyone to send only
>twenty(20) letters each. However, you are certainly not limited to
>twenty. Mail out as many as you can. Every twenty letters you send has
>a return to you of $10,000 or more. If you can mail forty, sixty,
>eighty, or whatever, GO FOR IT! THE MORE YOU PUT INTO IT, THE MORE YOU
>GET OUT OF IT!
>
>Each time you run this program, just follow the steps (1) through (3)
>and everyone on your gift list benefits! Simple enough? You bet it is!
>Besides, there are no mailing lists to buy (and wait for), no further
>trips to the printer or copiers, and you can do it again and again with
>your regular group of gifters, or start up a new group. Some people
>produce a mailing list of opportunity seekers and send out 200 or more.
>Why not? It beats working! Each time you receive a MLM offer in the
>mail, respond with THIS letter! Your name will climb to the number one
>position at dizzying geometric rates.
>
>Follow the simple instructions and above all, please "PLAY FAIR."
>
>That's the key to this program's success. Your name must run the "full
>gamut" on the list to produce the end results. "Sneaking" your name
>higher up on the list WILL NOT produce the results you think, and it
>only cheats the other people who have worked hard and earned the right
>to be there. So please, play by the rules and the $$,$$$ will come to
>you!!!
>
>--------Mail Your Letters Out Today--------
>
>$$$ TOGETHER, WE WILL ALL PROSPER $$$
>
>Mail your US$5.00 "Gift" to the first name on the list ONLY. Remove the
>first name and move the other two up one place and put your name in the
>#3 position.
>
>GOOD LUCK!!!
>
>
>************************************************************************
>
>1. G.U
>PO Box 1437
>Monterey Park, CA 91754
>
>2. Jorge S.
>40 Newport Pkwy
>Apt. 214
>Jersey City, NJ 07310 
>
>3. Sun Prod
>1350 E. Flamingo Rd. suite #426
>Las Vegas, NV  89119   
>
>*******************************************************************
>Remember your total cost for participation is only $5.32
>$5 gift and 32 cent stamp to mail it. Email this today to people
>that need an extra income fast.....thanks.
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Blanc" 
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 03:41:42 +0800
To: 
Subject: RE: importance of motivation (Re: EduFUD: Computers, software can harm emotional, social development)
In-Reply-To: <199810012036.VAA09025@server.eternity.org>
Message-ID: <000701bdede1$952200a0$3d8195cf@blanc>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Regarding ADD and difficulties with attention spans:

another problem with the typical public educational system method of presenting information, is that
it is begun from an abstract level, with very little contact with the concrete things from which the
higher-level concepts were derived.   Since a neophyte in the world hasn't yet developed their
mental database, this means that they mostly have to imagine what a teacher is talking about in
order to "get it", in order to remember it, in order to disgorge it back on command.

Besides this, the information is not presented in a context where the significance of it (a math
problem, for instance) is apparent to the student, i.e. why are we studying this, why should I
strain myself over this?  Very little of the activity involved in the understanding of things is
done with due respect to the student's choice in the matter, to whether they  have developed any
personal interest in the subject, so this then is another element eliminated from the learning
environment - respect, along with reality.

It is no wonder that some children would fail to respond to the attempts to "educate" them, or that
they would fail to display the desired level of interest, or else that they respond with equal
disrespect and inattention.

This could explain ADD/ADHD to some extent, and it probably would yield important insights for
someone to examine their own true motivations when they have problems concentrating or paying
attention.

And there certainly seems to be a significant number of cpunks who claim to have this 'syndrome'.

    ..
Blanc




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 04:27:15 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A19284728@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate wrote:
> > When I talk of a free market I mean Laissez Faire Capitalism, 
> > not Anarcho-Capitalism.
> 
> What's the specific difference?

I cannot claim to be an expert on anarcho-capitalism, but the
fundamental difference is Laissez Faire Capitalists believes in limited
government. The primary role of government being the abolition of
coercive force, the protection of intellectual property, and running or
overseeing of what can absolutely be justified as a natural monopoly
(e.g. military defense, sewer, local roads, etc).

Anarcho-capitalism on the other hand believes in no government (anarchy)
and that social institutions and co-ops will assume any functions that a
government would have had. Some believe that people and organizations
will independently prevent force will others believe in a competitive
free market for force and protection.

In either case there is no government interference in free trade (except
LF would prohibit Assassination Politics (AP) and similar).

> In what way are the resulting markets different from
> either the producers or consumers view?

Views on intellectual property and the obvious marketplace changes due
to an IP or lack of IP framework would be the major difference IMHO. I
cannot currently justify no intellectual property rights taken to an
extreme, and then you have the contradiction of force within the
framework of commerce.

> Explain further what you mean by abolition of force is a 
> prerequisite please.

Basically no person (or entity) can use force (or its derivatives)
against another person (or entity). Your long history of criminal law,
except stripped of all victimless crimes.

> And what specificaly do you mean by proper role of government?

"What, then, is law? It is the collective organization of the individual
right to lawful defense. 

Each of us has a natural right--from God--to defend his person, his
liberty, and his property. These are the three basic requirements of
life, and the preservation of any one of them is completely dependent
upon the preservation of the other two. For what are our faculties but
the extension of our individuality? And what is property but an
extension of our faculties? 

If every person has the right to defend -- even by force -- his person,
his liberty, and his property, then it follows that a group of men have
the right to organize and support a common force to protect these rights
constantly. Thus the principle of collective right -- its reason for
existing, its lawfulness -- is based on individual right. And the common
force that protects this collective right cannot logically have any
other purpose or any other mission than that for which it acts as a
substitute. Thus, since an individual cannot lawfully use force against
the person, liberty, or property of another individual, then the common
force -- for the same reason -- cannot lawfully be used to destroy the
person, liberty, or property of individuals or groups. 

Such a perversion of force would be, in both cases, contrary to our
premise. Force has been given to us to defend our own individual rights.
Who will dare to say that force has been given to us to destroy the
equal rights of our brothers? Since no individual acting separately can
lawfully use force to destroy the rights of others, does it not
logically follow that the same principle also applies to the common
force that is nothing more than the organized combination of the
individual forces? 

If this is true, then nothing can be more evident than this: The law is
the organization of the natural right of lawful defense. It is the
substitution of a common force for individual forces. And this common
force is to do only what the individual forces have a natural and lawful
right to do: to protect persons, liberties, and properties; to maintain
the right of each, and to cause justice to reign over us all."

from _The Law_, by Frederick Bastiat

	Matt




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 04:44:12 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A19284729@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate wrote:
> See above examples. Hell, take a look at the wet pet food 
> market now for a perfect example of why non-regulation is 
> a bad thing and why liability and other such buzz words 
> don't work in the real world.

One thing that has changed fundamentally in the Information Age is the
ability for the consumer to get informed -- the ease if information
publishing and retrieval and the inability to control it. Reputation has
more value then ever. If anything the government should insure
information disclosure (and enforce laws against fraud). Don't prohibit
transactions, let the consumer decide. For example the market will place
a value on FDA approval, whether individuals will pay more for or only
consume FDA approved items, whether insurance will cover non-approved
items, etc (and the FDA should be funded fully by evaluation fees, it
simply becomes a sort of brand, it sells reputation).

Government cannot protect people from their own decisions, and should
not have the right to take those decisions away.

I wouldn't eat at McDonalds even with all the regulation.

More often than not regulation is a false sense of security, and often
protects companies from legitimate liability (although god knows our
liability/tort system is completely out of whack).

	Matt




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 20:55:47 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199810020148.DAA30780@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Mr. Hettinga Bostoned:

>True enough. The water runs off the mountains *into* most of Death Valley,
>not *out* of it.

The Totos > Todt

An experience not to be missed is walking on the boiling water that 
collects at the lowest hottest point of the US. The encrusted mineral 
deposits left as the moisture evaporates create a hurricanic wreckcape 
of razor sharp crystals and suffocating stench in 120-degree+ summer 
heat -- yourself abarbeque.

Not far away is where rocks moonwalk across the flat landscape, 
leaving astronautic tracks of their movement which has not yet been 
explained by NASA investigators, all unawares pancaked by their 
implacable specimens heading home for Jupiter.

Then there's the nearby location where earth's gravity is not 
perpendicular, and all vegetation is angled exactly to fit the cant. 
When you step into the gavitational field you tip like Pisa's Tower 
obeying the pull. Some learned idiots say this is due to undergound 
deposits of metallic ore or a chunk of Mars. (There are several 
such sites around the US, one the Pentagon Parking Lot East,
where the levitators worked the 1969 liftoff).

All this perfectly tunes in to crypto channel because it is from 
Death Valley that our film crew returned today from shooting the 
Toto Family, not CJ's family but the band of creatures who gypsy
under The Toto Mantle (TTM).

Yes, they are ghoulish beyond ancestor-vulgar Pacific Rim 
loathsome, but that is not what cracked up us TransAtlanticists. 
It was watching the whole crew of TTMs simultaneously, in 
concert, keening and hair strumming, produce encrypted text, 
each contributing algorithmicly single alpha numerical digits, 
plink A, plonk 2, plunk %, in perfect signed PGP, bypassing 
incluement grammatical plaintext, EZ-guessable PWs and 
crackerjacktoy keys to issue pure incomprehensibility which 
could be instantaneously decrypted by an incomprehending 
viewer barechest-lathered with Death Valley Vapor Rub(DVVR)
(TM-TTM).

There is this, too. Each TM-TTM rubber descoda was genuine, 
authentic, narcotic,  immimicable, that is certain from the Radiant 
Glow of Ego ID Superego Transcendence that erases the 
codebarer barefooting meatslicing mineral deposits, bareback 
riding walking rocks, bare-ass leaning into the fully exposed 
future disclosed in the deathseeking porno-crypto-graphy of 
The Totos > Todt (TT>T).






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: mark@unicorn.com
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 06:12:44 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: copyright at the point of a gun (fwd)
Message-ID: <907326747.18477.193.133.230.33@unicorn.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate  wrote:

>> Judging by the state of software-piracy with PC software with 80-90%+
>> piracy rates, the market is already pretty much ok with ignoring
>> copyright, and would be happy to have no copyrights.

>So long as it isn't money your taking out of their pocket. There is an
>obvious double standard at play in the piracy issue.

Personally I get paid pretty well for writing software that's given away
for free. Why? Because it sells our hardware, and hardware is much, much
harder to copy than software (not to mention that the vast majority of
sales are made in the first two or three months after releasing a new
chip when a cloner would still be trying to get their silicon up and
running).

OTOH I just paid good money for a Linux CD. Why, when it's all free on
the Web? Because it contains a full consistent set of software, ready
compiled, and the time I'd spend hunting down all those packages by
myself is far more valuable than the cost of the CD. The same could be
said to apply to many of the other software packages I've bought in the
past; yes, in theory I could copy them, but I don't know anyone who has
a copy, so it would take longer to hunt it down for free than to pay for
it up front.

Software copyright really only benefits big companies like Microsoft. There
are good reasons for buying software from other companies even if there
was no copyright enforcement at gunpoint.

    Mark




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Brown, R Ken" 
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 05:30:13 +0800
To: Cypherpunks 
Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
Message-ID: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F8476@MSX11002>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> Petro[SMTP:petro@playboy.com] wrote: 
> Sent: 	01 October 1998 21:23
> 
>>I'm afraid sir, that your ingonorance is showing.  Pick up any college
>>(hell, high school) ecomonics textbook.  Certain types of businesses are
>>inheritly advantagious to monopolies.  The electric company is the classic
> >>example- their is no cost effective way for an electric company to
> supply
> >>power to a given area unless it is a monopoly.  Certain types of
> businesses
> >>are suited to certain types of competition, and, unregulated, monopolies
> >>are exactly what you get.  This was exactly the situation that occured
> at
> >>the turn of the century and it happened because regulation was
> >>non-existant!  Your statement is wonderfully trite but I see no evidence
> to
> >>support it.
> 
>	I'd suggest you go back to school and think a bit.In most places
>the "Electric Company" is a goverment sponsored and deligated monopoly.
>Competition is prohibited by REGULATION. This also occurs with Gas, Water,
>Telephone, especially Non-commercial, cable, and in some places Garbage
>disposal.

Nonsense. Most of those businesses became monopolies - or local monopolies -
in the relatively unregulated 1880-1914 period.  In some of them - like rail
or oil in the USA - governments introduced regulation to *force*
competition.  In UK over the last 30 years government  has  used a thing
called the "Monopolies and Mergers Commission" to investigate & (very
occasionally) break up monopolies or cartels. Government introduced
regulation to stop BT selling some products in order to allow competion to
grow. Recently government has forcibly broken up gas supply monopolies in
this country.  

I don't believe there are that many natural monopolies  Where there *are*
natural monopolies it is because the entry cost is higher than any likely
profit. Obvious case is water. It would cost you a hell of a lot to
guarantee water supply to my street in London without using the existing
infrastructure. Probably hundreds of millions of pounds.  I pay less than a
hundred pounds a year for my water. Natural monopoly.

What happens much more often is that one company becomes dominant and then
uses money to undersell rivals. Or even buy them up. Maybe even pay more for
them  It seems to be a common personality characteristic of people who run
big companies that they want to run even bigger ones. The worst enemy of
small business is big business. Now, if you wanted to say that in most
countries big business and government had their hands in each others pockets
I'd agree with you. But sometimes governments realise that monopolies are
bad - or the voters tell them that monopolies are bad - and they introduce
regulation to enforce competition.

Some other problems  - in some businesses (like oil)  the capital investment
required is so large that although there is no natural monopoly the players
ahve to be big. It might even be that there are some business (long-distance
airlcraft?) where the natural number of players in the world market is 1  -
there just aren't enough customers to justify 2 companies making the
investment (which is maybe why European governments stepped in to create
Airbus). 

Garbage (what we call rubbish over here) collection  is different again.
It's not at all a nutural monopoly and there is nothing stopping anyone
offering to do it as a business. But it is a natural for social ownership,
not private ownership. The trouble with rubbish is that I want  my
*neighbour's* rubbish to be collected as well as my own. I can pay for mine,
but what if he can't pay for his? (Like what if he is an unemployable
alcoholic, with severe Tourette's syndrome who stands on street corners for
sometimes 24 hours at a stretch, singing old soul and gospel songs,  yelling
and screaming at anyone who comes close,  and drinking can after can of
cheap beer to calm himself down enough so he can get some sleep?). I don't
want his rubbish on my street. The easiest way to arrange that is for the
majority who want rubbish collection to band together to pay for it for
everybody. And the easiest way to arrange that is through tax and local
government.

Same applies to education - I might be able to pay for my daughter to go to
school but we want everybody else's kids to go to school as well because my
life is better if they do. So we pay for it through tax.

If I don't watch out this will turn into a list of the 6 reasons why, even
though private business is nearly always more efficient,  *some* enterprises
need to be publically owned. 

Ken Brown (usual disclaimer - nothing to do with my employers)


> --
> petro@playboy.com----for work related issues. I don't speak for Playboy.
> petro@bounty.org-----for everthing else.      They wouldn't like that.
>                                               They REALLY
> Economic speech IS political speech.          wouldn't like that.
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: HyperReal-Anon 
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 01:38:55 +0800
To: abuse@usa.net
Subject: Increase Your Paycheck Next Week
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Hello, asshole:

I'd just like to suggest that you fuck yourself with a large metal hook in
all bodily cavities. As you are bleeding out, pour 12M nitric acid in your
wounds and feel the burn. If you are still conscious, superglue your little 
finger in a centrifuge and turn it on at maximum speed. If you are still
conscious, stick your head into a liquid nitrogen bath. All your coworkers
should repeat this procedure.

As an alternative, you can tie any coworkers you have up and bathe them in 
concentrated nitric acid while you shower them in NH4OH. Place your penis in
liquid nitrogen and then attempt to jack off. Finally, drink a concentrated
hydrochloric acid solution followed by concentrated sodium hydroxide
solution. In the unlikely event that you are able to do so, scream 'I AM THE
MASTER OF THE UNIVERSE!' over and over again while dancing until you pass out.

I wave to Interpol.

Hey Louis! What's shaking?

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Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 09:08:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: 2001files@usa.net
Message-Id: <199809301608.JAA07148@cyberpass.net>
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
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Subject: Increase Your Paycheck Next Week
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**************************************************************************
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Burnes 
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 08:53:46 +0800
To: Clifford Heath 
Subject: Re: Randomness testing
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Fri, 2 Oct 1998, Clifford Heath wrote:

> We have been asked by a customer if we have any tests that demonstrate 
> the randomness of the SSLeay random number generator (augmented by some
> sound-card random number seeding that we wrote).
> 
> I'd like to find some standard implementation for testing randomness, but 
> Schneier offers no help (other than a reference to Knuth Vol 2), and I
> don't know where else to turn.
> 
> I realise that cryptographic randomness requires unpredictability, and
> this quality depends upon closed-world assumptions about unknown individuals'
> predictive powers, but we have to live with that.
> 

You mean you don't have a copy of Knuth, Vol 2.  For shame!

I'm too lazy to look it up for you, but I believe the two tests
are called the Run test and the Chi-square method.

(trying to remember from my own dusty compSci memories)

jim





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Duncan Frissell 
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 06:41:13 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!...
In-Reply-To: <199810011243.HAA18113@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <199810021140.HAA19298@mail1.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 10:46 AM 10/1/98 -0700, Tim May wrote:

>Finally, the "environmental burden" imposed by a coal-fired power plant is
>vastly greater than that from a nuclear plant. Do the math on particulates,
>carbon levels, etc. Many libertarians have proposed better schemes for
>dealing with such environmental burdens....if fossil fuel-powered plants
>had to actually pay their share of environmental costs, they'd be even more
>expensive than nuclear.

A normally operating coal plant releases more radioactive material (carbon
14) than a normally operating nuclear plant.  The waste products from a
coal plant are not only more voluminous (though less dense) than the coal
that goes in but also contain a substance that is more poisonous than
plutonium (arsenic trioxide).

DCF




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 07:46:53 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!... (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810021246.HAA24653@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 07:41:29 -0400
> From: Duncan Frissell 
> Subject: Re: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!...

> A normally operating coal plant releases more radioactive material (carbon
> 14) than a normally operating nuclear plant.

The largest environment impact issue with a nuclear plant is hot water
discharge (which is much larger than the exhaust from a coal plant) and
spent fuel storage because of the amount of time that is required to
guarantee seals.

In the first place the heated water effects the ecology of the local area
and you see the ripples of this in the ecology changes for hundreds of
miles. An additional impact is that because of the water needs of plants
they are usualy located in or near wetlands which are critical to the entire
eco-cycle for thousands of miles.

The issue with storage is that it occurs on a time line that is best
described as near-geologic. Periods of time that are orders of magnitude
longer than human civilizations survive.

> coal plant are not only more voluminous (though less dense) than the coal
> that goes in but also contain a substance that is more poisonous than
> plutonium (arsenic trioxide).

Consider the difference in volume of these two waste products...


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 07:47:10 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: copyright at the point of a gun (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810021250.HAA24715@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 04:12:29 -0700 (PDT)
> From: mark@unicorn.com
> Subject: Re: copyright at the point of a gun (fwd) 

> >So long as it isn't money your taking out of their pocket. There is an
> >obvious double standard at play in the piracy issue.

[irrelevent material deleted]

> Software copyright really only benefits big companies like Microsoft. There

No, it also protects the little guy who writes a nifty piece of code that
lots of people want to use. 

> are good reasons for buying software from other companies even if there
> was no copyright enforcement at gunpoint.

If there was no copyright enforcement then the license agreements would be
even more draconian than they are now. Not to mention that technology as a
whole would be spread slower because companies wouldn't share it as easy as
they do now because of the protection of copyright.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "X" 
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 09:22:31 +0800
To: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Subject: RE: EduFUD: Computers, software can harm emotional, social development
In-Reply-To: <199810012307.QAA27055@netcom13.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <000501bdee0f$e0762080$982580d0@ibm>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



While preaching to the choir, Vladimir said (among other neat stuff)
~> not all effects are positive, but it's creating a new
~> reality I vastly prefer to the old, shriveled up one.


The old, shriveled up reality!  I LOVE it!

X 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Marty Levy" 
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 02:54:43 +0800
To: Clifford Heath 
Subject: Re: Randomness testing
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <361484A4.20AC5AD0@email.sps.mot.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Try Diehard at    http://stat.fsu.edu/~geo/diehard.html

Clifford Heath wrote:

> We have been asked by a customer if we have any tests that demonstrate
> the randomness of the SSLeay random number generator (augmented by some
> sound-card random number seeding that we wrote).
>
> I'd like to find some standard implementation for testing randomness, but
> Schneier offers no help (other than a reference to Knuth Vol 2), and I
> don't know where else to turn.
>
> I realise that cryptographic randomness requires unpredictability, and
> this quality depends upon closed-world assumptions about unknown individuals'
> predictive powers, but we have to live with that.
>
> --
> Clifford Heath                    http://www.osa.com.au/~cjh
> Open Software Associates Limited       mailto:cjh@osa.com.au
> 29 Ringwood Street / PO Box 4414       Phone  +613 9871 1694
> Ringwood VIC 3134      AUSTRALIA       Fax    +613 9871 1711
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Deploy Applications across the net, see http://www.osa.com






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 11:26:24 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: The end of The Netly News
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 09:24:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: Declan McCullagh 
To: politech@vorlon.mit.edu
Subject: The end of The Netly News


http://www.freedomforum.org/press/presswatch.asp

   Declan McCullagh is ending his longstanding "Netly News" column and
   leaving Time magazine today because of the magazine's recently
   restructured technology coverage. He will join Wired Oct. 12 as chief
   Washington correspondent. His agreement with Wired lets him continue
   to run the Politech e-mail list, a popular industry source of breaking
   news and analysis on technology and politics. (By Adam Clayton Powell
   III)

http://www.wired.com/news/news/business/story/15373.html

   Time Warner on Thursday quietly shut down Netly News, melding the
   operations of its Internet-beat news service and the online version of
   Time Digital.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Richard Stallman 
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 11:14:34 +0800
To: warlord@MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code)
In-Reply-To: <199809281845.TAA18662@server.eternity.org>
Message-ID: <199810021611.KAA24078@wijiji.santafe.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



    The big issue I see with GPL and Crypto software is that with the GPL
    you cannot add any redistribution restrictions.  The problem is that
    due to the United States export rules, I cannot export Crypto
    software, 

That is true.

	      which means I must legally put a restriction on any Crypto
    code I write.

In general, the fact that action A is illegal does not mean you must
include a requirement in your distribution terms not to do A.  Such a
requirement is superfluous, because A is illegal no matter what you
say about it.  For example, if you distribute email software, you
don't need to state the requirements not to use it for fraud or
harrassment.  They are illegal anyway.

It might be a good idea to include, in crypto software, a notice
informing users that US law forbids export of the software, as a
warning lest they do so unaware that export control covers it; but
this need not have the form of a binding requirement.  It could just
be "for your information".




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Richard Stallman 
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 11:13:59 +0800
To: warlord@MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code)
In-Reply-To: <199809281845.TAA18662@server.eternity.org>
Message-ID: <199810021611.KAA24080@wijiji.santafe.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



It might be best not to develop encryption software in the US.  You
might enjoy working on encryption, but if export control makes it is
hard for the whole world-wide free software community to take
advantage of your work, it would be better to work on something else
not subject to export control, and leave encryption to people outside
the US.  There are plenty of people in other countries interested in
working on encryption.

The GNU replacements for PGP and SSH are being written outside the US,
by people who are not US citizens.  We will import them to the US, but
we will never need to export them.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 03:03:32 +0800
To: rah@shipwright.com
Subject: Re: IP: New ExecOrd: Computer Software Piracy
Message-ID: <199810020825.KAA01800@www.ecn.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> Source:  US Newswire
> http://www.usnewswire.com/topnews/Current_Releases/1001-125.txt
>
> Clinton Issues Executive Order on Computer Software Piracy
> U.S. Newswire
> 1 Oct 14:10
>
> Clinton Issues Executive Order on Computer Software Piracy
> To: National Desk, Technology Writer
> Contact: White House Press Office, 202-456-2100
>
>   WASHINGTON, Oct. 1 /U.S. Newswire/ -- The following was released
> today by the White House:
>
>                       EXECUTIVE ORDER
>                        - - - - - - -
>                   COMPUTER SOFTWARE PIRACY
>
>     The United States Government is the world's largest purchaser of
> computer-related services and equipment, purchasing more than $20
> billion annually.  At a time when a critical component in discussions
> with our international trading partners concerns their efforts to
> combat piracy of computer software and other intellectual property,
> it is incumbent on the United States to ensure that its own practices
> as a purchaser and user of computer software are beyond reproach.
> Accordingly, by the authority vested in me as President by the
> Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, it is
> hereby ordered as follows:
>
>     Section 1.  Policy.  It shall be the policy of the United States
> Government that each executive agency shall work diligently to
> prevent and combat computer software piracy in order to give effect
> to copyrights associated with computer software by observing the
> relevant provisions of international agreements in effect in the
> United States, including applicable provisions of the World Trade
> Organization Agreement on Trade-Related Aspects of Intellectual
> Property Rights, the Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary
> and Artistic Works, and relevant provisions of Federal law, including
> the Copyright Act.



I suppose this means the USG will decide to retroactively compensate 
Inslaw for their use of the Promis software all these years...





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mok-Kong Shen 
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 04:22:07 +0800
To: Clifford Heath 
Subject: Re: Randomness testing
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3614A761.380173E0@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Clifford Heath wrote:
> 
> We have been asked by a customer if we have any tests that demonstrate
> the randomness of the SSLeay random number generator (augmented by some
> sound-card random number seeding that we wrote).
> 
> I'd like to find some standard implementation for testing randomness, but
> Schneier offers no help (other than a reference to Knuth Vol 2), and I
> don't know where else to turn.

I suggest that you do at least Maurer's test which is described
in A. J. Menezes et al. Handbook of Applied Cryptography. The
test is not difficult to code. You could also look at my code in
http://www.stud.uni-muenchen.de/~mok-kong.shen/#paper1 in Fortran.

M. K. Shen




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 14:30:06 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: US and Canadian Press Briefings
Message-ID: <361528ED.647E@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



The assurance that privacy is safe and sound is too consistently
followed by the promise of a workable compromise between personal
privacy and the 'legitimate needs of law enforcement.' I'm not a lawyer
but I don't see any middle ground that accomodates both. Either the 5th
ammendment stands or it falls. What exactly are they planning? They talk
as if the groundwork has already been done and it's merely a matter of
following through. Watch for some wierd stuff tied to a barley crop
subsidy or an EPA appropriation.

Are there other examples of this speech from overseas?

Mike

I can think of only one phrase suited to describe a state where the
civil liberties are defined by the police agencies.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Sunder 
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 12:54:23 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Y2K: Wired: Your bank account is safe(?)
Message-ID: <36151156.92214CF3@brainlink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 21:48:15 -0400
From: Salvatore Denaro 
Subject: y2k: FDIC says that every dollar is safe...

       POL. Monday
           FDIC: BANK BALANCES Y2K PROOF
           Thirty-seven federally insured banks are not ready for Y2K,
           but don't panic. The head of the FDIC says that every single
           dollar will be safe.

http://www.wired.com/news/news/email/explode-infobeat/politics/story/15283.html


--
Salvatore Denaro
sal@panix.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Clifford Heath 
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 00:43:50 +0800
To: cypherpunks-unedited@toad.com
Subject: Randomness testing
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



We have been asked by a customer if we have any tests that demonstrate 
the randomness of the SSLeay random number generator (augmented by some
sound-card random number seeding that we wrote).

I'd like to find some standard implementation for testing randomness, but 
Schneier offers no help (other than a reference to Knuth Vol 2), and I
don't know where else to turn.

I realise that cryptographic randomness requires unpredictability, and
this quality depends upon closed-world assumptions about unknown individuals'
predictive powers, but we have to live with that.

-- 
Clifford Heath                    http://www.osa.com.au/~cjh
Open Software Associates Limited       mailto:cjh@osa.com.au
29 Ringwood Street / PO Box 4414       Phone  +613 9871 1694
Ringwood VIC 3134      AUSTRALIA       Fax    +613 9871 1711
------------------------------------------------------------
Deploy Applications across the net, see http://www.osa.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 15:17:55 +0800
To: Digital Bearer Settlement List 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 09:16:56 -0800
From: "Daniel J. Boone" 
Organization: ROMEA
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rah@shipwright.com
Subject: Reputations for Sale

Hi, Robert!  Given your interest in reputation capital, I thought you would be
amused to know that right now (9:11 AM Alaska time, 1:11 PM Eastern) there is a
discussion going on at
Http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewBoard&name=qa
regarding the sale of an online commercial reputation.  Messages on this board
scroll away in about two hours, so if you actually want to look, be quick.

eBay, as you may know, is an online auction site where one can build a
reputation through a numerical feedback mechanism.  Someone is suggesting
building up accounts until they have a respectable feedback level and then
auctioning them off to new sellers who lack the patience to earn feedback the
old-fashioned way.  These are not folks who are clueful, for the most part,
about such issues; it's just a business idea to this guy.  I think it's
fascinating.

Take care --

Daniel

P.S.  If you think this would be of interest to any of your lists, feel free to
repost it.  I'd post it to Cypherpunks, but I'm not currently subscribed there.

=================================================================
Daniel J. Boone                      |	"No man's life, liberty,
Robertson, Monagle & Eastaugh, P.C.  |	 or property is safe when
P.O. Box 21211                       |   the Legislature is in
Juneau, Alaska  99802                |	 session."
                                     |
(907) 586-3340	                     |	 --Judge Gideon J. Tucker
 Fax: 586-6818	                     |	   New York, 1866
=================================================================

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Sunder 
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 15:15:40 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: NT5 Ships 96 years early!!!
Message-ID: <361533DE.7B4DA16C@brainlink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 16:14:15 -0400
From: Salvatore Denaro 
Subject: NT5 Ships 96 years early

>From the MS timeline:

http://www.microsoft.com/WindowsNT5/workstation/default.asp

WINDOWS NT SERVER 5.0
DECEMBER 30, 1899 -- Find out about Windows NT Server 5.0 and how it builds 
upon the strengths of version 4.0 to provide a platform that is faster, 
more reliable, and easier to manage.

--
Salvatore Denaro
sal@panix.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 15:18:24 +0800
To: dcsb@ai.mit.edu
Subject: [E-CARM] WIPO Public Meeting w/ Prof. Michael Froomkin
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


X-Authentication-Warning: c3po.kc-inc.net: majordomo set sender to
owner-e-carm@lists.kc-inc.net using -f
X-Sender: cdt9@pop.cais.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 12:20:30 -0400
To: e-carm@c3po.kc-inc.net
From: Ari Schwartz 
Subject: [E-CARM] WIPO Public Meeting w/ Prof. Michael Froomkin
Sender: owner-e-carm@c3po.kc-inc.net
Precedence: bulk


***OPEN INVITATION TO ALL MEMBERS OF THE INTERNET COMMUNITY***

The World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO) is currently holding a
series of public forums to discuss the intellectual property issues
associated with Internet domain names, including dispute resolution.
Michael Froomkin, Professor of Law at the University of Miami, was
appointed this week to the WIPO experts panel. In order to foster greater
public input into the WIPO process, Professor Froomkin will be holding an
informal open meeting on Monday, October 5th at 9 a.m. to hear comments and
concerns from the public interest community regarding this critical issue.
All interested parties are invited to attend and contribute to this open
discussion.

Meeting with Michael Froomkin, WIPO experts panel member
Monday, October 5 at 9 a.m.
hosted by the Center for Democracy and Technology
1634 Eye Street NW, 11th Floor
Call (202) 637-9800 for further details.






------------------------------------
Ari Schwartz
Policy Analyst
Center for Democracy and Technology
1634 Eye Street NW, Suite 1100
Washington, DC 20006
202 637 9800
fax 202 637 0968
ari@cdt.org
http://www.cdt.org
------------------------------------


===========================================================================
Help with Majordomo commands plus list archives and information is
available through the E-CARM web page at http://www.kc-inc.net/e-carm/.
Sponsored by The Knowledge Connection.
===========================================================================

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 15:33:40 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Take Back the Constitution - the 4th Amendment
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 16:10:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: ElectPD@earthlink.net
To: rah@shipwright.com
Subject: Take Back the Constitution - the 4th Amendment

	Take back the Constitution!  Eye-catching Fourth Amendment bumper
sticker available.  Bold and daring (as are your constitutional rights).
It reads, "I do not consent to a search of my vehicle, my person or my
residence.  So, don't ask. This individual is protected by the 4th
Amendment."

	Http://home.earthlink.net/~electpd Link shows you  photo of bumper
sticker.  It was created and produced by three Santa Clara County
(California) deputy public defenders.  It measures 15 inches by 3‡ inches
(very large). Top quality materials and paints.  $2 each or 6 for $10. +$4
for shipping via U.S. mail.  Citizens to Elect Our Public Defender (in
Santa Clara County, California).  P. O. Box 71, San Jose, CA 95103.
(408)996-8473.

	Bumper stickers mailed out same day order received., via first class
mail and in protective envelopes ($1.50 to $3 for postage + $1 for the
envelope - our cost).
___________________________________________________________
If you wish to be removed from the ElectPD future mailings, to include
upcoming  bumper stickers announcements, please reply with "Remove" in the
subject line and your name will be removed from future mailings.

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mok-Kong Shen 
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 09:34:49 +0800
To: Jim Burnes 
Subject: Re: Randomness testing
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3614F088.C3F31857@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Burnes wrote:
> 
> You mean you don't have a copy of Knuth, Vol 2.  For shame!

I suppose Heath meant that there is no codes ready for him to use as
those given in Schneier's book. Some tests in Knuth are in fact not
very trivial to code.

M. K. Shen




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 15:31:22 +0800
To: dbs@philodox.com
Subject: WPI Cryptoseminar, Wednesday, 10/7 (fwd)
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


X-Authentication-Warning: goya.WPI.EDU: christof owned process doing -bs
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 15:30:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: Christof Paar 
To: DCSB 
Subject: WPI Cryptoseminar, Wednesday, 10/7 (fwd)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Sender: bounce-dcsb@ai.mit.edu
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: Christof Paar 

Here we go again. Our seminar series starts next week on a regular base.
-Christof

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

       WPI Cryptography and Information Security Seminar

                       Christof Paar, WPI

        REPORT ON THE ADVANCED ENCRYPTION STANDARD, AES


                       Wednesday, October 7
                         4:00 pm,  AK 108
                    (refreshments at 3:45 pm)


It is probably widely known that DES expires as a federal encryption
standard by the end of 1998. Currently NIST is overseeing the development of
a new block cipher, AES, which will become the DES successor.

The development process for AES is highly interesting as it has been (as of
yet) been a public process: Everyone was able to submit candidate algorithms
which are currently publicly reviewed.

My talk will mainly follow the excellent presentations by Miles Smid, who
is with NIST, at the AES1 and CRYPTO '98 conferences in August. I will
briefly review the main requirements for AES and talk about the submitted
algorithms. The talk will conclude with a description of how the AES
selection process will continue.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

DIRECTIONS:

The WPI Cryptoseminar is being held in the Atwater Kent building on the
WPI campus. The Atwater Kent building is at the intersection of West and
Salisbury Street for those coming from outside. Directions to the campus
can be found at http://www.wpi.edu/About/Visitors/directions.html


TALKS IN THE FALL '98 SEMESTER:

8/12  Kris Gaj, George Mason University
      Quantum Computers and Classical Supercomputers as a Threat to
      Existing Ciphers.

10/6  Christof Paar, WPI
      Report on AES

10/14 David Finkel, WPI
      Performance and Security in Web-based Electronic Commerce

10/28 Thomas Blum, WPI
      Efficient FPGA Architectures for Public-Key Algorithms

[other talks to be announced]


See also http://ece.WPI.EDU/Research/crypt/seminar/index.html for
abstracts of some of the talks.


MAILING LIST:

If you want to be added to the mailing list and receive talk announcements
together with abstracts, please send me a short mail. Likewise, if you want
to be removed from the list, just send me a short mail.


Regards,

Christof Paar


*************************************************************************
Christof Paar                   http://ee.wpi.edu/People/faculty/cxp.html
Assistant Professor             email:  christof@ece.wpi.edu
Cryptography Group              phone:  (508) 831 5061
ECE Department, WPI             fax:    (508) 831 5491
100 Institute Road
Worcester, MA 01609, USA
*************************************************************************









For help on using this list (especially unsubscribing), send a message to
"dcsb-request@ai.mit.edu" with one line of text: "help".

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 19:41:44 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 5:16 PM -0700 10/2/98, Jim Choate wrote:
>There is a desert which is 1000 miles across. There is a camel who can carry
>1000 bananas maximum. The camel eats 1 banana per mile travelled. The camel
>has a total of 3000 bananas to begin with. What is the maximum number of
>bananas that the camel can get across to the other side uneaten?
>

>
>A: 533

Some say 533 and a third.

What was your point in posing this with the answer at the bottom. This
problem shows up in the math newsgroups and is not an interesting CP topic.

--Tim May



Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash.
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mok-Kong Shen 
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 11:36:53 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: An Extension of My Encryption Algorithm WEAK3
Message-ID: <36150EB7.D2300148@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



A reported trouble with the runtime libraries (dll) has be removed.
Those who have downloaded the WEAK binaries before 29th September
please do the downloading once again.

M. K. Shen




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 18:03:31 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: ICANN (New IANA) as a Pawn in an Economic Struggle Between US and
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 17:42:56 -0400
Reply-To: cook@cookreport.com
Originator: com-priv@lists.psi.com
Sender: com-priv@lists.psi.com
Precedence: bulk
From: Gordon Cook 
To: Multiple recipients of list 
Subject: ICANN (New IANA) as a Pawn in an Economic Struggle Between US and
X-Comment:  Commercialization and Privatization of the Internet

I asked the question a few days ago: what could justify Ira's heavy handed
tactics.  What stakes could be large enough to risk the stability of the
net?  Here is an informed hypothesis based on a 90 minutes conversation
with an expert source in these areas who has a heavy international
background.  (I have also reality checked this hypothesis with several
knowledgable observers.)

I am beginning to get an idea of what is at stake in the larger sense.
Ira, I fear, is using the internet as a pawn in a far bigger game.

The game is is inextricably linked with the privacy statutes of the OECD
and the coming October 23th deadline for American companies doing business
in Europe and data mining on European citizens as part of their ordinary
activities.  It is also inextricably linked with the international
encryption debate.

I have heard credible allegations that the US government is at such
loggerheads with the OECD countries over the use of key recovery encryption
and over the unwillingness of american big business to change its ways of
gathering data on employees, customers, contractors etc that we are coming
to the October 23th deadline with billions of dollars at stake and no
solution.

At the same time Ira has for the past three years focused on his mission
with Tom Kalil and working through the National Economic and Security
Council to setting up the internet as a mechanism for global economic
commerce.....   touting the net as a means on which, in a few year's time,
the majority of the world's economy will depend.

It looks as though Ira's agenda is to do this in such a way that the
internet can be controlled by an American based, incorporated, non profit
public authority set up under American law with a Board, purposefully
established without fiscal restraints and without any oversight or
accountability. And with board members who with a smattering of
international representation can be made as subserviant as possible to the
interests of the large American Corporations.  These Board members, through
the GIP, will be passing the cup to pay for the expenses of establishing
ICANN.  Consider Bill Burrington Director of Law and Public Policy and
Assistant General Counsel at AOL, a company which huge data holdings.  He
is the chair of the Washington DC Internetactive Services Association which
went on to form the Internet Alliance with membership very simalr to GIP.
Burrington is manning the barricades of the companies involved in the
privacy dispute with the oecd.  (Why should Burrington care? Consider AOL's
electronic profiles on its 12 million members) Consider also Andy Sernovitz
of AIM whose members have the same general interests and who helped Barb
Dooley of the CIX sell out the IFWP process.  Did Jon Postel really refuse
to attend the Harvard wrap up meeting or did Ira order him not to?

So even if Ira looks heavy handed -- for this agenda to be used as the
White House intends-- Ira needs to have his ducks in order in time for the
OECD meeting in Canada that begins next week.  He needs to demonstrate that
he has enough power to have rammed through a solution at home.   That is
why things have turned nasty during the last week and why the iron fist is
becoming seen with the incorporation of ICANN even though, by Ira's own
allegedly free process, ICANN should not yet be seen as the winner.

Ira is determined to confront the OECD next week with an Internet that *HE*
and the White House clearly controls and to do so as a bargaining chip to
use in getting our way against the Europeans and Asians and Canadians.....
on the issues of encryption and privacy statutes.  It would be instructive
to see the legal basis of the governments arguments being used to get NSI
to cave.  Could it be that their content might be embarrising?

If SAIC doesn't order NSI to sign Ira's demands by the seventh then Ira and
the white house will not be as in control of the internet, as they need to
demonstrate themselves to be, in order to use the internet as an american
dominated global commerce weapon against the other OECD governments.  The
American view is that with the internet firmly in command of the White
House on American corportate terms, the Asians and Europeans will have no
choice but to back off their privacy and the American encryption demands.

Remember also that Europe is trying to launch the Euro in such a way that
it becomes the world's reserve currency. One would like to know whether the
White House orders are do what ever is necessary to see that this effort
fails.

The Europeans and Asians understand perfectly well the power play that Ira
is engaged in.  They are not surprisingly seething with anger.  American
arrogance could be doing dangerous things.  If we drive Europe and Asia
into an economic and political alliance against us, we all will lose.
Privacy, and the freedom to live our lives without government and corporate
political or economic interference are at stake.

***************************************************************************
The COOK Report on Internet            White House Corrupts Formation of IANA
431 Greenway Ave, Ewing, NJ 08618 USA  Corporation. White Paper a Sham. See
(609) 882-2572 (phone & fax)           http://www.cookreport.com/sellout
cook@cookreport.com                    Index to 6 years of COOK Report, how to
subscribe, exec summaries, special reports, gloss at http://www.cookreport.com
***************************************************************************

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 20:43:07 +0800
To: "Reeza!" 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Reeza! wrote:
> 
> ... the First Adulterer/Purjurer, you question why I
> call him this
> 

No, I'm questioning why you're telling *me* about it.

-- an anonymous AOL32 user




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jukka E Isosaari 
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 10:59:04 +0800
To: cypherpunks-unedited@toad.com
Subject: Re: Randomness testing
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



One very easy test is to compress the produced random number binary files
with various compression algorithms or programs. If the data is truly 
random, it should not be possible to achieve any compression. At least
not if you include the compression program data size in the calculation.

Well, I'm not sure whether this is such a good practical test or not.(?)

++ J

On Fri, 2 Oct 1998, Clifford Heath wrote:

> We have been asked by a customer if we have any tests that demonstrate 
> the randomness of the SSLeay random number generator (augmented by some
> sound-card random number seeding that we wrote).
> 
> I'd like to find some standard implementation for testing randomness, but 
> Schneier offers no help (other than a reference to Knuth Vol 2), and I
> don't know where else to turn.
> 
> I realise that cryptographic randomness requires unpredictability, and
> this quality depends upon closed-world assumptions about unknown individuals'
> predictive powers, but we have to live with that.
> 
> -- 
> Clifford Heath                    http://www.osa.com.au/~cjh
> Open Software Associates Limited       mailto:cjh@osa.com.au
> 29 Ringwood Street / PO Box 4414       Phone  +613 9871 1694
> Ringwood VIC 3134      AUSTRALIA       Fax    +613 9871 1711
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Deploy Applications across the net, see http://www.osa.com
> 
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 18:08:44 +0800
To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Not to disturb your exegetic reverie, here, Gord, but I asked Mr.
Magaziner, when he spoke at at the Electronic Payments Forum earlier this
month, in front of about 400 or so digital commerce and e$ types, the
following question:

"Given your administration's, um, success, in banning strong foriegn
cryptography, how do you propose to ban it in the United States?"

His answer then was that he was absolutely postively against key escrow or
limits on cryptography of any kind. Besides stealing all my carefully
worded thunder :-), he got a big round of applause. 

He also said that the major reason for the, um, complexity, of US crypto
policy was that the administration's internet commerce types were fighting
the law enforcent types tooth and nail about it.

I want to smash the state as much as the next crypto-anarchist :-), but I
figure this is what is happening. The spooks gave up on this crap long ago,
and it's just the cops standing in front of the steamroller now. Money
trumps crime-FUD, just like it did spook-FUD. F=MA, and all that. :-).


Cheers,
Bob Hettinga

"There's the conspiracy theory of history, where elites conspire to shape
events behind the scenes, the fuck-up theory of history, where elites fuck
up and conspire to cover it behind the scenes, and the fucked-up conspiracy
theory of history, where elites conspire to shape events, fuck up, and
conspire to cover it up behind the scenes. My favorite theory is the
latter."
-- (An as-yet Unremembered) Mizzou History Prof

or, in the spirit of William of Occam,

"Never attribute to conspiracy what can be explained by stupidity." --Jerry
Pournelle




-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 19:13:39 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: A Number Theory Problem....
Message-ID: <199810030016.TAA26844@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



There is a desert which is 1000 miles across. There is a camel who can carry
1000 bananas maximum. The camel eats 1 banana per mile travelled. The camel
has a total of 3000 bananas to begin with. What is the maximum number of
bananas that the camel can get across to the other side uneaten?


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------

A: 533




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: J-Dog 
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 22:04:40 +0800
To: Ulf Möller 
Subject: Re: Is the .to (Tonga) domain completely rogue and should beremoved?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



if you want the long version of it, join gthe NANOG list (North American
Network Operators Group).. but basically, this TLD is mostly a spam/rogue
TLD....

J-Dog

On Sat, 3 Oct 1998, Ulf [iso-8859-1] Möller wrote:

> As mentioned out in NTK, Internet has put set Tuvalu top-level domain
> "on hold". What has happened?
> 
> 
> Registrant:
> Tuvalu top-level domain TV17-DOM
>    Ministry of Finance and Tourism
>    Funafuti,
>    TUVALU
> 
>    Domain Name: TV
>    Domain Status: On Hold
> 
>    Administrative Contact, Technical Contact, Zone Contact:
>       Internet Assigned Numbers Authority  IANA  iana@iana.org
>       (310) 822-1511
> 
>    Record last updated on 15-Sep-98.
>    Record created on 18-Mar-96.
>    Database last updated on 2-Oct-98 03:53:16 EDT.
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "kryz" 
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 15:12:13 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks" 
Subject: Fw: 1998-10-01 VP Announces New Efforts to Crack Down on Software Piracy
In-Reply-To: <19981001202053.2.MAIL-SERVER@pub1.pub.whitehouse.gov>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



To whom it may concern:

----------
| Date: donderdag 1 oktober 1998 20:20:00
| From: The White House
| To: Public-Distribution@pub.pub.whitehouse.gov
| Subject: 1998-10-01 VP Announces New Efforts to Crack Down on Software Piracy
|
|
|                             THE WHITE HOUSE
|
|                       Office of the Vice President
| ________________________________________________________________________
| For Immediate Release                                    October 1, 1998
|
|
|                      VICE PRESIDENT GORE ANNOUNCES
|          NEW EFFORTS TO CRACK DOWN ON SOFTWARE PIRACY WORLD-WIDE
|
|
|      Washington, DC --Vice President Gore announced today that a new
| Executive Order (EO) will direct federal departments and agencies to
| prevent and combat computer software piracy, and the President also will
| direct the United States Trade Representative (USTR) to press foreign
| governments to enact similar protections.
|
|      "Today, we are declaring war on software piracy," Vice President 
| Gore said.  "The message is clear:  don't copy that floppy.  At home or
| abroad,intellectual property must be protected."
|
|      The federal government is the world's largest buyer of
| computer-related services and equipment, at over $20 billion a year. 
| An estimated $11 billion was lost world-wide to software piracy in 1997,
| translating into as many as 130,000 lost jobs in the United States.
|
|      President Clinton's Executive Order directs agencies to:
|
|      Ensure that only authorized computer software is acquired for,
|      and used on, agency computers.
|
|      Ensure that agency policies and practices related to copyrights
|      on computer software are adequate.
|
|      Prepare an inventory of the software on their computers.
|
|      Develop and maintain adequate record-keeping systems for their
|      computer software.
|
|      Vice President Gore said the President is directing USTR Charlene
| Barshefsky to press other governments over the next year to announce
| programs ensuring that their departments and ministries use only
| legitimate software in an authorized manner.  Working closely with
| software companies, USTR will seek to persuade other governments to
| modernize their software management systems, to assess software use
| through comprehensive audits, and to ensure that procurement practices 
| call for, and budgets provide for, acquisition and use of "legal
| software."
|
|      Finally, the Vice President announced that the Commerce Department
| will award 79 new Advanced Technology Program (ATP) grants, worth $82
| million, to keep America at the cutting-edge of technology and
| innovation.  ATP helps fund higher-risk, higher-payoff investments that
| can yield enormous economic benefits.  By requiring cost-sharing from 
| industry, the ATP leverages federal research dollars and encourages
| companies to invest in long-term technological breakthroughs.
|
|      This year's grants will go for, among other things:
|
|      Technology to restore nerve functions to treat victims of
|      spinal cord injuries.
|
|      Life-saving DNA diagnostics at 1/100th of the current cost.
|
|      Digital video technologies that will allow businesses to do
|      video-conferencing over ordinary phone lines.
|
|      Software technologies that will dramatically cut the cost
|      of updating the skills of workers using computer-based
|      training.
|
|                                     ###
|
|






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Eric Cordian 
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 20:50:28 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: A Number Theory Problem....
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199810030150.UAA09171@wire.insync.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Tim writes:

> Some say 533 and a third.

This is correct if the camel eats bananas continuously, as opposed to
discretely.

Starting with 3,000 bananas, the camel can deposit 2,000 bananas 200 miles
from his starting point.  He can then deposit 1,000 bananas another 333
1/3 miles from that point.  There now remain 466 2/3 miles to go, and
bananas to eat, leaving the camel with 533 1/3 bananas upon reaching the
other side.

If the camel eats bananas in discrete quanta, we lose the fractional
banana. 

-- 
Sponsor the DES Analytic Crack Project
http://www.cyberspace.org/~enoch/crakfaq.html

 




> 
> What was your point in posing this with the answer at the bottom. This
> problem shows up in the math newsgroups and is not an interesting CP topic.
> 
> --Tim May
> 
> 
> 
> Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash.
> ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
> Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
> ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
> W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
> Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.
> 
> 
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 23:05:41 +0800
To: 
Subject: RE: importance of motivation
In-Reply-To: <199810012036.VAA09025@server.eternity.org>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 1:46 AM -0700 10/2/98, Blanc wrote:
>Regarding ADD and difficulties with attention spans:

>This could explain ADD/ADHD to some extent, and it probably would yield
>important insights for
>someone to examine their own true motivations when they have problems
>concentrating or paying
>attention.
>
>And there certainly seems to be a significant number of cpunks who claim
>to have this 'syndrome'.

Any trendy new diagnosis always gets some recruits...dyslexia, ADD (*), the
abuse excuse, etc.

(* Like any trendy thing, it gets renamed to keep its panache. ADD has been
renamed to something with four letters, which I now forget (must be ADD).)

We've had some nutballs and losers (luser spelling: loosers) on this list.
People who claim the reason they can't make a coherent argument or hold a
steady job is because of something some psychobabbler told them was their
excuse.

So what else is nu beside e over h?

--Tim May

Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash.
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Albert P. Franco, II" 
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 15:10:12 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: re: microcurrency proposal
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981002211612.0088ec30@apf2.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>Date: Thu, 01 Oct 98 16:20:35 -0700
>From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 

snip... 

>but I think this is a very promising approach. a company
>can create a plugin that would support microcurrency charges
>for web page hits very easily. 
>
>here's how: the plugin interacts with any site that has
>enabled it. it sends a code to the site using a protocol.
>the site returns pages only upon a valid transaction request.
>for regular browsers without the plugin, the message is,
>"sorry, this page costs $.01, please download so-and-so
>plugin".
>
...

>how would the cash charge work? when the person gets the 
>plugin, they give the plugin company their credit card
>number. the company takes care of the problem of accruing
>micro charges, keeping track of transactions/bills, and 
>billing the credit card in large amounts.
>

Here in Spain prepay telephone cards for cell phones are quite popular. The
idea is that you buy a card for 5000 pesetas ($35) and make calls until it
is exhausted then you get another. As a manner of getting something going
why not charge $5 OR $10 for the download and discount away until the
plug-in is empty. Obviously, there needs to be some way to make sure the
customer doesn't tinker with the value remaining. Pretty much all of the
technology for distribution is already easily available and as mentioned
further on in your letter the amounts are so small that fraud shouldn't be
too much of an issue.

The page generators side is likewise straight forward as they collect the
charge amount and plugin certificate number which they send as a file
periodically to the plugin provider who verifies that no "major" fraud has
occurred and then disburses the funds (minus commission) to the content
provider. Don't get to nervous about the plugin certificate number. These
numbers would not be used to link to a particular user, but rather to make
sure that a $5 dollar cert only runs up $5 of charges after which it is
blocked.

>the problem is trying to transfer money to various individuals
>if their microcharge accounts have a net positive value instead
>of negative (in which case they would be charged their credit
>card at the end of the month). how do you transfer this money?
>
This situation may be addressable in (at least) two ways. Issue a limited
value plugin say for 50 cent increments or incorporate a mechanism for
crediting the plugin. I prefer the first method since the second may make
the system more vulnerable.

>of course, I'm leaving the issue of taxes out of this, but
>the microcharge company could be a point of collection for
>them.
>
The plugin issuer should not be required to be an expert in international
tax law. I think an annual statement of payments sent to the content
provider would probably be sufficient. The concept is that the content
provider has not sold services or content to 50,000 individuals but rather
one customer. I think that pretty much all countries have existing methods
of controlling and collecting taxes based on the income derived from sales
activities. There is no need to make the task of the plugin issuer more
difficult.

>notice that none of what I am proposing above requires any
>new infrastructure whatsoever, except a little programming
>into a plugin. the distribution of the plugin is partly solved
>in that plugins are already distributed all over the net
>and understood by end-users.
>
As my suggestions above demonstrate, I agree that this is perhaps the most
likely way that a "grassroots" based microcurrency system could actually
get off the ground. There is absolutely nothing in this plan that mandates
the participation of major financial entities, which seems to be a major
bottleneck for other systems. (Besides the fact that the big guys don't
seem interested in truly "micro" transactions) This is in fact something
that could very well grow in Internet time scale rather than (conservative)
bankers time.

Al Franco, II




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Albert P. Franco, II" 
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 15:10:59 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Clear and present danger: FIGHT AGAINST NATIONAL ID CARD (fwd)
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981002214238.0088e550@apf2.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>From: Jim Choate 
>Three branches of government? Between the state and federal?
>
>I don't think so...
>
>There are *THREE* (3) EQUALY powered members in the government of the United
>States of America; federal, state, and the people.
>
I think the original message speaks of executive, legislative, and judicial
branches. As defined by the constitution this is, in fact, the federal
government. As a matter of practice, most if not all, of the states are
also divided this way. Article X which you quoted supports the tacit
understanding that We, the people, are not actually THE government. We, the
people, have, by this the supreme law of the land, authorized the formation
and maintenance of a government which by this same document We authorize to
govern us. I don't really see anywhere that says we can't revoke our
authorization. But I also don't see anything that places We, the people,
inside the government structures.

Remember, there was a great deal of fuss made by the framers of that great
document about giving the People too much power. That's why there were
originally a lot of limits on direct election of top officials. Hell
technically, we still don't directly elect the president. The electoral
college does. We also cannot directly propose or implement legislation.
Some states do allow this level of popular intervention but the sad fact is
we still don't have a national referendum.

The statement you made that, "There are *THREE* (3) EQUALLY powered members
in the government of the United States of America; federal, state, and the
people." Is simply not true. The states are no longer equals to the feds,
and We the people are in today's world much less than equal to either.

Al Franco, II





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 16:16:09 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code)
In-Reply-To: <199809281845.TAA18662@server.eternity.org>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981003003611.00b80100@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>> The big issue I see with GPL and Crypto software is that with the GPL
>> you cannot add any redistribution restrictions.  The problem is that
...
>Ahh, but it's not *you* who's putting the restrictions on your software,
>but the U.S. government.  As far as I know (not that I'm a lawyer, or
>anything) the U.S. govt. doesn't care what your license says --if it's
>strong crypto, it's not supposed to be exported. 

Depends on how you write your restrictions - I've seen products that
range from "We the copyright holder refuse to let you export it and we'll
only sell it to Real Americans with Real US Pedigree Papers who agree
that the Real Yankee Government owns their rights to everything
and agree not to think about letting any Furriners see it" to
"By the way, the US government may not let you export it from the
territory they so unreasonably claim, so you might want to check
with a lawyer if that sort of thing bothers you."


				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ulf@fitug.de (Ulf =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=F6ller?=)
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 18:28:04 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Is the .to (Tonga) domain completely rogue and should be removed?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



As mentioned out in NTK, Internet has put set Tuvalu top-level domain
"on hold". What has happened?


Registrant:
Tuvalu top-level domain TV17-DOM
   Ministry of Finance and Tourism
   Funafuti,
   TUVALU

   Domain Name: TV
   Domain Status: On Hold

   Administrative Contact, Technical Contact, Zone Contact:
      Internet Assigned Numbers Authority  IANA  iana@iana.org
      (310) 822-1511

   Record last updated on 15-Sep-98.
   Record created on 18-Mar-96.
   Database last updated on 2-Oct-98 03:53:16 EDT.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Blanc" 
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 03:54:25 +0800
To: 
Subject: RE: importance of motivation
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <000c01bdeeac$6ed6d300$3d8195cf@blanc>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>From Tim May:

: Any trendy new diagnosis always gets some recruits...dyslexia, ADD (*), the
: abuse excuse, etc.
:
: (* Like any trendy thing, it gets renamed to keep its panache. ADD has been
: renamed to something with four letters, which I now forget (must be ADD).)
:
: We've had some nutballs and losers (luser spelling: loosers) on this list.
: People who claim the reason they can't make a coherent argument or hold a
: steady job is because of something some psychobabbler told them was their
: excuse.
.............................................................................


You're just a bit subtle, Tim.

It is true that ineffectual psychotherapists and their victim patients often conspire together to
maintain that presentation of the patient as being an invalid, a victim of circumstance, for
whatever benefits that confers on them both.  But sometimes these patients are children, who
wouldn't know how to cooperate in such deceptions.   And although several loons have cycled through
the list, PM is not a loon, and he said he definitely could not maintain his attention without
medicine for ADD.  Not knowing PM very well, I couldn't very well argue with him over whether it was
more the problem of an error in his self-assessment and true interest, and less a medical condition
labelled ADD. (he insisted that he loves what he does)

It can be hard to identify deceptions, lies, and self-deceptions.   There's so many things - people,
drugs, etc - which can prevent one from self-discovery and admission, or things which act as
inducements towards continuing such weaknesses.   For certain adults, I expect that it is a lack of
courage and desire for self-reliance which are the main obstacles standing in the way of getting
over their excuse for acting like 'losers'.   But there are some legitimite problems - nervous,
attentional difficulties - which people can develop and which, aside from the trendy names given to
them, could be improved with serious therapeutic attention.  You'd have to work to know yourself
well, to determine which the real problem is.

l again offer this web site which has information on ways to help oneself towards strengthening
one's physical system to get over attentional and similar problems:   http://www.handle.org.   It is
here in Seattle, but there is now a therapist located in New York City, and clinicians  also travel
to other states and will performa evaluations there (there's a schedule of events listing any
travels to cities in the U.S.)

    ..
Blanc




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 20:52:23 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code)
Message-ID: <199810030154.DAA01318@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Richard, you seem to be missing one of the major reasons behind the little
schism developing here.

You say that proprietary software developers shouldn't expect the GNU
project to help them for nothing in return. Thing is, Cypherpunks *want*
to help with crypto -- even if those we help make proprietary software,
and even if we get nothing for our help -- and if GNU folks don't do that,
well, we just won't be GNU folks.

(More generally (and more abrasively), we'd like to make a license suited
to our goals -- meaning one promoting placement of easy-to-use
cryptography wherever it can be useful (including (gasp) in proprietary
software) and discouraging the spread of incompetently-done, weak, or
escrowed crypto -- and the GNU GPL just isn't it)

By the way, regarding the GNU GPL's interaction with export regs:

     In general, the fact that action A is illegal does not mean you
     must include a requirement in your distribution terms not to do
     A. ...

I agree that what you say is correct and, logically, should apply to
crypto regs*, but in practice, failing to include the requirement you
mention is asking for trouble. Ask Cypherpunks if you want to know more
about that, as I believe elaboration in this post would draw s from
our beloved retromoderator.

* Logically, crypto regs shouldn't even exist in a marginally free
society, but, again, this is deep in  territory.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 07:37:19 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Netsurfer Digest: Vol. 04, #29
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


From: editor-bounce@netsurf.com
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 19:22:38 -0700 (PDT)
X-Authentication-Warning: smtp2.zocalo.net: editor set sender to
editor-bounce@netsurf.com using -f
Subject: Netsurfer Digest: Vol. 04, #29
Mime-Version: 1.0
Precedence: bulk

NETSURFER DIGEST
More Signal, Less Noise Volume 04, Issue 29
Wednesday, September 30, 1998



BREAKING SURF

Credit Card Data Compromised at Online Auction Sites

Mark Dodd owns AuctionWatch, a neat auction site information center. He was
running searches on the major search engines and by sheer accident
uncovered a security hole in some software used by many of the online
auction houses. It's a big one, too. If the auction site misconfigures its
software, and apparently many do, the first happy hacker to come along can
steal its customers' credit card numbers and addresses. Mark went to CNet
with the story, which warned many of the affected sites of the potential
havoc and scooped up a good story in the process. Remember, the safety of
your credit card data is only as good as the security savvy of the
webmaster guarding it. AuctionWatch: 
http://www.auctionwatch.com/
CNet: 
http://www.news.com/SpecialFeatures/0,5,26760,00.html


New Hacker Tactic: Slow, Coordinated Attacks from Multiple Locations

A clever new twist in the evolutionary arms race between hackers and online
security forces gives us an excuse to bring you this fascinating Web site.
Hackers, it seems, have discovered herding behavior. Their latest tactic is
to coordinate probes and attacks against online sites from a large number
of separate machines and over a long period of time. By limiting probes to
rates as low as two per hour and dispersing their sources, hackers can
probe beneath current security software's threshold of detection. The Navy
Cooperative Intrusion Detection Evaluation and Response team (CIDER) just
released a report on the technique. The CIDER site is also worth visiting
for information on security and intrusion detection software projects,
notably a database comparing commercial and government tools. Cool spook
stuff. CIDER: 
http://www.nswc.navy.mil/ISSEC/CID/
Report: 
http://www.nswc.navy.mil/ISSEC/CID/co-ordinated_analysis.txt



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--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 08:09:44 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: RE: importance of motivation
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 5:00 AM -0400 on 10/3/98, Blanc wrote about Tim's troll:

> : We've had some nutballs and losers (luser spelling: loosers) on this list.
> : People who claim the reason they can't make a coherent argument or hold a
> : steady job is because of something some psychobabbler told them was their
> : excuse.
> .............................................................................
>
>
> You're just a bit subtle, Tim.

Nah. Tim is about as subtle as a loud fart in a Volkswagen.

Or a "troll" under a bridge.


But then, of course, there's actual neuroscience.

I'm pretty epistemological about these things. I for one think that
"talking therapy" is half next to witchcraft, and that that, and other
"biological" approaches to knowlege, where you categorize and catalog
things subjectively and then deduce the world accordingly without benefit
of mathematics, or physics, or chemistry is, frequently, a "luser's"
paradise. Phrenology and astrology come to mind, along with, oddly enough,
people who study lightning without physics, and, of course, so-called
"technical" stock market analysts. ("Fibbronacci retracement", my ass...)


However, I *do* know that when I take ritalin, I can do boring stuff much
easier. I'm a very grouchy bastard, but the boring stuff gets done. And, a
very large percentage of people with the DSM-V "diagnosis" of ADHD (H, for
"hyperactive", is Tim's lost initial there, probably a Freudian slip ;-)),
also focus better with ritalin or dexedrine in their bloodstreams, at least
in clinical trials. I also know that when you run PET scans of people who
have ADD (I'm not as hyperactive as I was as a kid...) their brains look
markedly different from those of  "normal" people when they try to
concentrate on something too long.


I expect that, fairly shortly, neuroscience and psychopharmacology will
tell us all sorts of things about things formerly attributed to mysticism,
ethics, poor mental hygeine, and, of course, motivation.

Scientific determinism may be a bitch, but she's sure an elegant one.

Hell, maybe even "losers" will be curable, someday, if they want to be.


Or even cyphertrolls, for that matter.


Yours in dereliction and lassitude,
Bob Hettinga
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 09:36:03 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: RE: importance of motivation
In-Reply-To: <000c01bdeeac$6ed6d300$3d8195cf@blanc>
Message-ID: <199810031436.KAA00893@camel7.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



'Twould be nice if rationality waned for a generation or
many, give us time to recover from being overdosed with
it since the ahem Renaissance, and suffering the damage of 
Renaissance Persons with pseudo-mastery of more than 
they know how to handle except to blow the shit out of a 
world they cannot truly comprehend except as a clueless
wad defying self-annointe High IQers.

De Toqueville adored patronizing the "American People" of
his time what they were good and bad at (one of the earliest 
promoters of AADD). And every Sheeplemongering weenie 
who lusts to be Somebody whips out the bullfrog's constitutional
and citers it as wisdom for the masses needing superior 
guidance -- that is from-the-mount sermonizing from the 
wannabe mighty-mites who really just want to avoid hard labor, 
an agenda the masses don't get advised to abide.

What's inspiring about misbehavior, for whatever cause,
is that it drives the Reasonable People, those who know
so little they need armoring with tin-thin rationality, into a 
panic of recognition of the alluring siren call to chuck 
overcontrol and enjoy getting under the thinskin of the 
hypo-rougers of a reality ever shedding its skin for new 
realities.

Up ADD, hurrah for hyperrationality, the way past
certain knowledge and comforting wisdom of the
way things are not, never were, never will be.

Medevial superstition, plague, sloth and licentiousness, 
now there's a cheap Ritalin for science and economy and 
law and decency all too reasonable, all too nearly 
inescapable, all too non-fictional to be believed.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 12:22:37 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: 2 books of potential interest...
Message-ID: <199810031725.MAA28225@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Hello,

I was in Bookstop a while ago and noticed two books that could be of
potential interest.

The first I didn't buy, "We were soldiers once....and young", about the
Ia Drang valley incident in Nov. of 65 (I had stated it was in '64 in the
discussion about "The Best and Brightest"). It is written from notes and
interviews with the survivors apparently. For those who are interested in
the issues that were involved in the Vietnam War it may be of some use.

The Law Enforcement Handbook
D. Rowland, J. Bailey
ISBN 1-56619-471-7
$6.98 (in the cheap books section)

Looks to discuss a majority of police proceedures and details the items of
interest to police officers in performing their duty.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 11:05:05 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: A Number Theory Problem
Message-ID: <361657FE.43E3@mistic.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> There is a desert which is 1000 miles across. There is a camel who can carry
> 1000 bananas maximum. The camel eats 1 banana per mile travelled. The camel
> has a total of 3000 bananas to begin with. What is the maximum number of
> bananas that the camel can get across to the other side uneaten?

My camels don't understand/can't eat fractional bananas.

My first camel put 
2000 bananas at 200 miles then 
1001 bananas at 533 miles then
left 1 banana at mile 533 and 
sprinted for home,
arriving with 533 bananas

My second camel put 
2000 bananas at 200 miles then 
1001 bananas at 533 miles then
ate 1 banana at mile 533 and 
found the energy to move the  
1000 bananas to mile 534 and
sprinted for home,
arriving with 534 bananas

My third camel put 
2000 bananas at 200 miles then 
1001 bananas at 533 miles then
ate 1 banana at mile 533 and 
found the energy to move the
1000 bananas to mile 534 and
sprinted for home,
arriving with 535 bananas 
figuring he'd pay 
for his last mile with credit.

My fourth camel,
the biggest strongest camel,
was already waiting 
at the destination and
charged each of the other camels a
50% banana tax, 
rounded up to the nearest banana,
plus a 10 banana collection fee
and left with 832 bananas and 
didn't have to do
anything but paperwork while
the other camels were now short of
bananas and
had to find a new way to get more 
bananas.

Mike




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 12:56:41 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Internet Sales Tax Killed [CNN]
Message-ID: <199810031800.NAA28444@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Note that I've added a few comments/notes between the supplied quoted
sections. As always I've deleted for brevity.

Forwarded message:

> X-within-URL: http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1998/10/02/internet.tax.ap/

>    By CURT ANDERSON
>    AP Tax Writer
>    
>    WASHINGTON (AP) Legislation allowing states to force mail order and
>    Internet businesses to collect sales taxes failed in the Senate Friday
>    as debate began on how to tax cyberspace commerce.
>    
>    Senators voted 65-30 to table, or kill, an amendment authorizing any
>    state to require companies with significant catalog, mail order or
>    Internet sales to collect their sales tax and send it back to the
>    state.
>    
>    The sponsor, Sen. Dale Bumpers, noted that every business operating in
>    a state with a sales tax must already collect and remit the revenue.
>    He said the amendment effectively would reverse a 1992 Supreme Court
>    decision preventing states from enforcing sales taxes on companies
>    located outside their borders.

Section 8.  The Congress shall have Power      To lay and collect Taxes, 
Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common 
Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts 
and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States; 

	No Tax or Duty shall be laid on Articles exported from any State. 

(Note that it doesn't say "Congress shall make no law..." but rather is an
absolute prohibition of taxes/duties on exports of states. It therefore
falls under the "prohibited" clause of the 10th.)

>    "If they choose to have a sales tax, the federal government should
>    allow them to enforce it," said Bumpers, D-Ark.
>    
>    Opponents, however, called the measure a hidden tax increase and were
>    able easily to defeat it for the sixth straight year.
>    
>    "Since this tax has never been collected, there's only one way to view
>    it," said Commerce Committee Chairman John McCain, R-Ariz.

As unconstitutional.

[remainder deleted]


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 12:27:55 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Wired News: Report of military personnel medical records hackis FALSE
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Delivered-To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
From: Bridget973@aol.com
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 22:10:54 EDT
To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Subject: IP: Wired News: Report of military personnel medical records hack
is FALSE
Sender: owner-ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Bridget973@aol.com

http://www.wired.com/news/news/technology/story/15372.html


                     Pentagon Takes Back Hack
                     Wired News Report

                     7:45 p.m.  1.Oct.98.PDT
                     The US Department of Defense said
                     Thursday last week's report of crackers
                     penetrating military Web sites and
                     altering soldiers' medical files were
                     inaccurate.

                     Instead, a "Red Team" of American
                     military computer experts carried out a
                     simulated attack designed to test the
                     security of the Pentagon's computer
                     networks, said a spokeswoman for the
                     Defense Department.

                     "The simulated attack is part of the
                     recent exercises to assess the danger to
                     unclassified material, such as personnel
                     records," Suzan Hansen said Thursday.

                     The confusion arose last week, when
                     Money told the Armed Forces
                     Communications and Electronics
                     Association Conference that crackers had
                     accessed a medical database in the
                     southeastern United States and changed
                     blood types in soldiers' records.

                     Hansen said that Money was merely
                     referring to a Red Team exercise, not a
                     real cyberattack.

                     At the conference, Money reportedly said
                     that the Red Team exercise prompted the
                     Pentagon to develop a more restrictive
                     security policy on the type of information
                     that will be stored in military computers
                     connected to the Internet.



--
bridget973@aol.com
Black Helicopters on the Horizon:
http://members.xoom.com/bridget973




**********************************************
To subscribe or unsubscribe, email:
     majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com
with the message:
     (un)subscribe ignition-point email@address
**********************************************
www.telepath.com/believer
**********************************************

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 12:53:26 +0800
To: cryptography@c2.net
Subject: IP: Americans for Computer Privacy Call for Action in Congress
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Delivered-To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
X-Sender: believer@telepath.com
Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 09:14:11 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com
From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Americans for Computer Privacy Call for Action in Congress
Mime-Version: 1.0
Sender: owner-ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
Precedence: list
Reply-To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  US Newswire
http://www.usnewswire.com/topnews/Current_Releases/1002-121.txt

Americans for Computer Privacy Call for Action in Congress
U.S. Newswire
2 Oct 14:30

 Americans for Computer Privacy Call for Action in 106th Congress
 To: Assignment Desk, Daybook Editor, Technology Writer
 Contact: Sue Richard for Americans for Computer Privacy,
          202-625-1256, E-mail: suer(At)dittusgroup.com

   News Advisory:

   WHAT: Americans for Computer Privacy (ACP) will issue a coalition
         letter to House and Senate leaders urging legislation in the
         next Congress that will build on the reforms in encryption
         policy recently announced by the Administration. ACP will
         also report on the coalition's growth and future plans, as
         well as the response to its on-line advertising initiative.

   WHO:  ACP Executive Director Ed Gillespie; Rep. Bob Goodlatte
         (R-Va.); Rep. Zoe Lofgren (D-Calif.); Rep. Sam Gejdenson
         (D-Conn.); Rep. Rick White (R-Wash.); Sen. John Ashcroft
         (R-Mo.); Sen. Conrad Burns (R-Mont.); Sen. Ron Wyden
         (D-Ore.); Robert Holleyman, Business Software Alliance;
         Jerry Berman, Center for Democracy and Technology; and
         Grover Norquist, Americans for Tax Reform.

   WHEN:  Wednesday, Oct. 7, 11 a.m.

   WHERE: Room HC-7, U.S. Capitol,
          Washington, D.C.

   BACKGROUND: Since its formal launch in March 1998, ACP has worked
closely with Congress and the Administration on encryption policy
reform. While ACP acknowledges that progress has been made, the
coalition believes the encryption issue is far from resolved.
Americans for Computer Privacy brings together more than 100
companies and 40 associations representing financial services,
manufacturing, telecommunications, high-tech and transportation, as
well as law enforcement, civil-liberty, pro-family and taxpayer
groups. ACP supports policies that advance the rights of American
citizens to encode information without fear of government intrusion,
and advocates the lifting of current export restrictions on U.S.-made
encryption.

   For more information on ACP, please visit our website at
www.computer privacy.org. A cybercast of the press conference will be
available on the site on Thursday, Oct. 8.

 -0-
 /U.S. Newswire  202-347-2770/
 10/02 14:30

Copyright 1998, U.S. Newswire
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




**********************************************
To subscribe or unsubscribe, email:
     majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com
with the message:
     (un)subscribe ignition-point email@address
**********************************************
www.telepath.com/believer
**********************************************

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Jean-Francois Avon" 
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 14:09:12 +0800
To: "Donna Ferolie" 
Subject: Govt breaks the law.  They do it again!
Message-ID: <199810031856.OAA12855@cti06.citenet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



THIS MESSAGE SENT AND/OR Cc'ed TO:

Paul Martin, Finance Minister 
Anne McLellan, Justice Minister 
Gary Breitkreuz, Reform Party MP 
Dr. Bernard Patry, Pierrefonds-Dollars MP 
Le Québecois Libre 
auditoire@montreal.src.ca
cypherpunks@toad.com
Sporting.Shooters.Association@adelaide.on.net
"Donna Ferolie"


Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 16:26:47 -0600
From: David A Tomlinson 
Subject: Re: NEW ILLEGAL REQUIREMENTS

>Canadian Firearms@CFC   10/01/98 09:17 AM
>Bulletin No. 23

>Registration and the Firearms Identification Number

>You will receive a Registration Certificate for each firearm you
>register.  Each Registration Certificate will have a unique number.
>This will be the Firearms Identification Number (FIN) issued by the
>Registrar, head of the Canadian Firearms Registry. The FIN is the
>file number you will use for all contact with the office of the
>Registrar.  If your firearm has no serial number, or if the serial
>number, combined with other features of the firearm, is not enough
>to tell it apart from all other firearms, you will have to put the
>FIN on your firearm.  The Registrar will tell you if the FIN must
>be placed on your firearm.

The FIN will be required on nearly all firearms, as few of them have a
well-documented system of Serial numbers that is KNOWN and PROVABLE.  Many
manufacturers -- especially manufacturers of military firearms for export --
duplicate Serial numbers with monotonous regularity.  Others recycle the
numbers -- as Iver Johnson did, numbering 9,000,000 revolvers with a machine
capable of only 99,999 numbers before starting to recycle.  Others,
particularly Eastern manufacturers, use digits and/or letters that the
registration system cannot handle (Cyrillic letters, for example).

>Attaching the FIN to Your Firearm
>You will have to put the FIN on your firearm only if the firearm
>has no serial number or the serial number is not unique.

There is no way to tell whether or not a particular Serial number is UNIQUE.
The word "unique" designates an absolute --  That is, it is guaranteed that
there is NO other firearm of that type with that Serial number.  That is a
standard that is clearly unreachable.  The Serial number is an indicator,
but it can never be certified as "unique" because there is always at least
the problem of fraud in the factory producing one or more firearms with
duplicated Serial numbers.  


>If you
>have to put the FIN on your firearm, you have a choice of how you
>apply it in three situations:  1) if you own your firearm on
>December 1, 1998; 2) if your firearm was manufactured before
>December 1 and imported into Canada on or after December 1, 1998;
>or, 3) if you, as a licensed business, specially import the firearm
>for a short time only (such as a film company making a movie in
>Canada).  In these cases, you may attach a FIN using a special
>sticker provided by the Registrar or, you may permanently engrave
>or stamp the FIN on your firearm.

The above is a very muddled paragraph, which I split into two parts.  The
above section apparently identifies the three classes of firearms which can
be identified by the use of a permanent "sticky."  It offers the OPTION of
stamping of engraving the FIN on the "frame or receiver" of the firearm.


>  With all other firearms needing
>unique identification, you must permanently engrave or stamp the
>FIN.  In most cases, the FIN must be easy to read and on a visible
>part of the frame or receiver (see next CFC Bulletin for further
>details).  You will have 30 days from the issue date on the
>Registration Certificate to attach the special sticker to your
>firearm.  You will have 90 days from the issue date on the
>Registration Certificate to permanently engrave or stamp the FIN
>on your firearm.

This second half of the paragraph (above) requires engraving or stamping of
the FIN on all other classes of firearms, such as all firearms manufactured
after 01 Dec 98. 


>For more information, or for a copy of the Firearms Act, its
>regulations and other CFC publications, contact us at:

>1-800-731-4000 (Toll Free)
>Web site:  http://www.cfc-ccaf.gc.ca/
>E-mail:  canadian.firearms@justice.x400.gc.ca

Fortunately, all of this is apparently NULL AND VOID.  No such requirements
may be demanded by the CFC or CFR/FRAS unless they are:

1.  required by the legislation (C-68's Firearms Act or Criminal Code), or

2.  the subject of an Order in Council authorized to be made by the legislation.

The legislation apparently says nothing whatever about where or how the
Serial number must be on the firearm, and does not mention the Firearms
Identification Number concept at all; therefore, the above requirements are
apparently null and void as far as the legislation is concerned.

The legislation does not authorize the making of any regulation regarding
markings on firearms, and therefore the above rules apparently cannot be
created by Order in Council.

Once again, this is apparently a defective attempt to amend defective
legislation by false pretences, and an attempt by the CFC and CFR/FRAS to
legislate -- but legislation is beyond their power, so this entire set of
requirements is apparently null and void.

A copy of this is being sent to the CFC and to CFR/FRAS.  CFC and CFR/FRAS,
this is a demand for an explanation as to why this apparently illegal and
misleading information was published and distributed. 
Please reply to the Canadian Firearms Digest with all possible speed, and
either explain why you think you had the authority to publish it -- or
publish a retraction.

Dave Tomlinson, NFA  --  CLOG: all Conservative or Liberal Ottawa Governments

------------------------------






Jean-Francois Avon, B.Sc. Physics, Montreal, Canada
  DePompadour, Société d'Importation Ltée
     Limoges fine porcelain and french crystal
  JFA Technologies, R&D physicists & engineers
     Instrumentation & control, LabView programming
PGP keys: http://bs.mit.edu:8001/pks-toplev.html
PGP ID:C58ADD0D:529645E8205A8A5E F87CC86FAEFEF891 
PGP ID:5B51964D:152ACCBCD4A481B0 254011193237822C


From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ulf@fitug.de (Ulf =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=F6ller?=)
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 14:09:53 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Is the .to (Tonga) domain completely rogue and should be removed?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>>[Tuvalu TLD put on hold]

>if you want the long version of it, join gthe NANOG list (North American
>Network Operators Group).. but basically, this TLD is mostly a spam/rogue
>TLD....

That is quite scary.

If someone outside the US uses a .COM or other generic TLD name, even
if the name has been used for years and is a, say, European trademark,
anyone in the US can register that name as a trademark, and Internic
will take the name away from the legitimate owner. You may say that's
ok because `generic' TLDs are de facto American, but now Internic even
decides to disable the name space of a sovereign state? If there is any
such thing as Infowar, I guess this must be it.

In case the upcoming EU regulation on unsolicited mailings has the effect
some claim it will, can Internic just declare .DE a spammer domain and
disable FITUG's address as well?

Dealing with contents is not any naming authority's business. It
wouldn't be even if you actually needed a domain to send spam.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 18:38:50 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.9: Canada Frees Up Crypto--WIRED
Message-ID: <199810032339.QAA27717@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: "ama-gi ISPI" 
Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.9: Canada Frees Up Crypto--WIRED
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 00:10:43 -0700
To: 

ISPI Clips 5.9: Canada Frees Up Crypto
News & Info from the Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI)
Friday October 2, 1998
ISPI4Privacy@ama-gi.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This From: WIRED News, September 1, 1998
http://www.wired.com

Canada Frees Up Crypto
http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/15362.html

by
Matt Friedman, mwf@total.net

In a move that will almost certainly create friction between the US and
Canada, the Canadian government has released a new cryptography policy that
encourages the proliferation of powerful data-scrambling technologies.

The policy, announced Thursday by John Manley, the minister of industry,
makes it clear that Canadians will not have to submit to mandatory key
recovery, which would give the government access to all scrambled
communications. The document also heads off the establishment of a national
public key infrastructure.

"In terms of domestic policy, it couldn't be better," says David Jones,
president of Electronic Frontier Canada. "Industry Canada is essentially
saying that, domestically, you can pretty much do whatever you want with
cryptography."

An American civil liberties advocate was similarly impressed.

"It is great. It's a policy for the 21st century, as opposed to the US
government's policy update from last week, which is too little, too late,"
said Susan Landau, a cryptography policy expert and the co-author of
Privacy on the Line: The Politics of Wiretapping and Encryption.

Canada's new policy is a setback to the country's "signals intelligence"
spy agencies. Industry Canada had been under considerable pressure from the
intelligence and law-enforcement communities, both at home and in the
United States, to establish domestic crypto controls.

"The US has sent a number of delegations to Canada, a number of times, to
try and convince [the Canadian government], to go with a restrictive view,"
said David Banisar, policy director of the Electronic Privacy Information
Center in Washington, DC.

"The Canadians clearly said they were not interested."

Last winter, when Ottawa published a public white paper on cryptography and
solicited comments from the public and other branches of government, the
Canadian Security Intelligence Service said that it was pushing for a
public key-recovery plan.

The CSIS is concerned both with domestic and foreign intelligence, sort of
a combination of the FBI and CIA.

"The ability to decrypt messages and data has a significant impact on our
ability to monitor security threats to Canadians," said CSIS spokeswoman
Marcia Wetherup at the time. Reached for comment Thursday morning, Wetherup
said, "That continues to be the service's main concern at this time."

While the Canadian government has rejected controls on domestic crypto, it
is taking a wait-and-see attitude on exports. In the US, cryptography
exports are strictly regulated, on the grounds that the technology might be
used to conceal the communications of terrorists or hostile nations.

"The Commerce Department is not going to be happy," Landau said. A Commerce
Department official declined comment.

Under the new policy, Ottawa will continue to work within the framework of
the Wassenaar agreement. That document, an international treaty limiting
the spread of munitions technologies, is currently being renegotiated.

Sunny Handa, a cyberlaw specialist with the Montreal law firm Martineau
Walker, points out that the new policy will not alter existing regulations
governing the export of Canadian crypto technology or the re-export of
technology originating in the United States.

"The real issue now is export," he says. "That hasn't changed."

The new policy does, however, make the point that the Canadian government
will "deter the use [of crypto] in the commission of a crime," and in the
concealment of evidence. Moreover, existing search-and-seizure laws will
apply to encrypted messages. But Handa says that Industry Canada is simply
"throwing a bone to the police."

"Our search-and-seizure laws are pretty good right now," he says.
"Citizens' rights are protected, and law enforcement officials can do their
jobs. If Industry Canada has signaled that it's happy with them, we
probably won't see new legislation in this area for years."

"One way to view the issue of cryptography is as an issue of crime
prevention, rather than crime detection," said Landau. "As we enter the
wired world, cryptography will become extremely important to crime
prevention, and the Canadians recognize that."

Copyright (c) 1994-98 Wired Digital Inc.

--------------------------------NOTICE:------------------------------
ISPI Clips are news & opinion articles on privacy issues from
all points of view; they are clipped from local, national and international
newspapers, journals and magazines, etc. Inclusion as an ISPI Clip
does not necessarily reflect an endorsement of the content or opinion
by ISPI. In compliance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed free without profit or payment for non-profit research
and educational purposes only.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

ISPI Clips is a FREE e-mail service from the "Institute for the Study
of Privacy Issues" (ISPI). To receive "ISPI Clips" on a regular bases
(up to 3 - 8 clips per day) send the following message  "Please
enter [Your Name] into the ISPI Clips list: [Your e-mail address]" to:
ISPIClips@ama-gi.com  .

The Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) is a small
contributor-funded organization based in Victoria, British Columbia
(Canada). ISPI operates on a not-for-profit basis, accepts no
government funding and takes a global perspective.

ISPI's mandate is to conduct & promote interdisciplinary research
into electronic, personal and  financial privacy with a view toward
helping ordinary people understand the degree of privacy they have
with respect to government, industry and each other and to likewise
inform them about techniques to enhance their privacy.

But, none of this can be accomplished without your kind and
generous financial support. If you value in the ISPI Clips service or if
you are concerned about the erosion of your privacy in general, won't
you please help us continue this important work by becoming an "ISPI
Clips Supporter" or by taking out an institute Membership?

We gratefully accept all contributions:

  Less than $60    ISPI Clips Supporter
          $60 - $99    Primary ISPI Membership (1 year)
      $100 - $300    Senior ISPI Membership (2 years)
More than $300    Executive Council Membership (life)

Your ISPI "membership" contribution entitles you to receive "The ISPI
Privacy Reporter" (our bi-monthly 12 page hard-copy newsletter in
multi-contributor format) for the duration of your membership.

For a contribution form with postal instructions please send the following
message "ISPI Contribution Form" to ISPI4Privacy@ama-gi.com .

We maintain a strict privacy policy. Any information you divulge to ISPI
is kept in strict confidence. It will not be sold, lent or given away to
any third party.













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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 18:38:55 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.10: 'Deadbeat' Parents Database Goes on Line
Message-ID: <199810032339.QAA27729@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: "ama-gi ISPI" 
Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.10: 'Deadbeat' Parents Database Goes on Line
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 00:11:28 -0700
To: 

ISPI Clips 5.10: 'Deadbeat' Parents Database Goes on Line
News & Info from the Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI)
Friday October 2, 1998
ISPI4Privacy@ama-gi.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This From: CNN Interactive, September 30, 1998
http://www.cnn.com

National Registry to Track 'deadbeat' Parents Goes on Line:
The Federal Case Registry will track the 16 million U.S. parents who are
required to pay child support
http://www.cnn.com/US/9809/30/deadbeat.registry/


WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A new national registry aimed at helping keep track of
the 16 million U.S. parents required to pay child support goes on line
Thursday.

The Federal Case Registry is designed to help custodial parents who aren't
receiving child support track down the non-custodial parents who owe the
money.

Once the "deadbeat" parent is located, even in another state, officials can
ask his or her employer to withhold child support from paychecks, which the
employer is obligated to do under federal law.

"This is an exciting day of hope for children whose parents have abandoned
them financially," said U.S. Department of Health and Human Services
Secretary Donna Shalala in a statement.

HHS figures show that states now collect about 22 percent of the $50
billion in back child support owed each year. The new database is expected
to be particularly helpful in cases where the children live in a different
state than the deadbeat parent.

"Since one-third of all child support cases are interstate, we now can
confidently close the loopholes for parents escaping their financial
obligations," said Olivia Golden, an HHS assistant secretary.

Custodial parents can enter information about the deadbeat parent in the
registry. That information will then be checked against data in a separate
registry, the National Directory of New Hires, which includes records for
everyone who begins a new job.

Critics of the registry concept say that many custodial parents who try to
go after child support after a multi-year lapse won't have enough accurate
data to make a match.

Fathers' rights groups have also expressed concerns that the tracking
system could be used to invade the privacy of law-abiding parents. However,
Golden says the law that set up the registry prohibits unauthorized use of
the data.

Thirty-nine states will begin entering information into the registry
immediately. The remaining 11 states are expected to come on board during
1999.

Correspondent Jennifer Auther contributed to this report.

(c) 1998 Cable News Network, Inc.


--------------------------------NOTICE:------------------------------
ISPI Clips are news & opinion articles on privacy issues from
all points of view; they are clipped from local, national and international
newspapers, journals and magazines, etc. Inclusion as an ISPI Clip
does not necessarily reflect an endorsement of the content or opinion
by ISPI. In compliance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed free without profit or payment for non-profit research
and educational purposes only.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

ISPI Clips is a FREE e-mail service from the "Institute for the Study
of Privacy Issues" (ISPI). To receive "ISPI Clips" on a regular bases
(up to 3 - 8 clips per day) send the following message  "Please
enter [Your Name] into the ISPI Clips list: [Your e-mail address]" to:
ISPIClips@ama-gi.com  .

The Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) is a small
contributor-funded organization based in Victoria, British Columbia
(Canada). ISPI operates on a not-for-profit basis, accepts no
government funding and takes a global perspective.

ISPI's mandate is to conduct & promote interdisciplinary research
into electronic, personal and  financial privacy with a view toward
helping ordinary people understand the degree of privacy they have
with respect to government, industry and each other and to likewise
inform them about techniques to enhance their privacy.

But, none of this can be accomplished without your kind and
generous financial support. If you value in the ISPI Clips service or if
you are concerned about the erosion of your privacy in general, won't
you please help us continue this important work by becoming an "ISPI
Clips Supporter" or by taking out an institute Membership?

We gratefully accept all contributions:

  Less than $60    ISPI Clips Supporter
          $60 - $99    Primary ISPI Membership (1 year)
      $100 - $300    Senior ISPI Membership (2 years)
More than $300    Executive Council Membership (life)

Your ISPI "membership" contribution entitles you to receive "The ISPI
Privacy Reporter" (our bi-monthly 12 page hard-copy newsletter in
multi-contributor format) for the duration of your membership.

For a contribution form with postal instructions please send the following
message "ISPI Contribution Form" to ISPI4Privacy@ama-gi.com .

We maintain a strict privacy policy. Any information you divulge to ISPI
is kept in strict confidence. It will not be sold, lent or given away to
any third party.













**********************************************
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with the message:
     (un)subscribe ignition-point email@address
**********************************************
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**********************************************




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 18:38:55 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.11: Canada Weighs in on Crypto--CNET
Message-ID: <199810032339.QAA27741@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: "ama-gi ISPI" 
Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.11: Canada Weighs in on Crypto--CNET
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 00:13:01 -0700
To: 

ISPI Clips 5.11: Canada Weighs in on Crypto--CNET
News & Info from the Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI)
Friday October 2, 1998
ISPI4Privacy@ama-gi.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This From: CNET News.con, October 1, 1998
http://www.news.com

Canada Weighs in on Crypto
http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,27044,00.html?st.ne.fd.mdh

By
Janet Kornblum, janetk@cnet.com
Staff Writer, CNET News.com

In a move aimed at encouraging e-commerce, the Canadian government today
introduced a new policy with relatively loose restrictions on the export of
encryption software.

The new encryption policy, introduced today in a speech by John Manley,
Canada's minister of industry, may be more notable for what it lacks: a
mandatory requirement for controversial key recovery and powerful
restrictions on strong encryption products.

Encryption software is used to put a digital lock on private communication.
To read an encrypted document, the recipient has to have a "key."

The controversy over encryption has been a classic case of business and
privacy interests vs. government.

On one hand, businesses and privacy advocates want to be able to develop
and sell products that are airtight as possible. On the other,
governments--primarily the United States--want to be able to prevent
outsiders from being able to digitally lock out law enforcement officials
from their communication and thwarting efforts to prosecute wired
criminals.

Though the White House has loosened its stance on the export of encryption
software, it still backs policies that make the practice difficult.

Canada's Manley, on the other hand, specifically said the country "will not
implement mandatory key recovery requirements or licensing regimes for
certification authorities or trusted third parties."

It does, however "encourage industry to establish responsible practices,
such as key recovery techniques for stored data and industry-led
accreditation of private sector certification authorities," he added.

The government also pledged to make it easier for Canadian firms to export
strong encryption products both by streamlining the export permit process
and by making sure Canada's regulations are not tighter than those of
competitors in other countries.

"The policy underscores that Canada is open for electronic business,"
Manley said. "We are encouraging the widespread use of strong encryption
and growth of export markets for Canadian technologies."

David Banisar, policy director for the Electronic Privacy Information
Center and an outspoken critic of the United States' tight export
restrictions, today applauded most of Canada's new policy.

"It definitely refutes the U.S.'s attempts to get Canada to restrict crypto
in many ways," Banisar said. "It allows Canadian companies to export
software pretty much of any size."

He added that Canada's policy could help influence more liberal European
rules on encryption exportation. "This won't force the U.S.'s hands, but
what it does is it further isolates the U.S.," he said.

However, Banisar did take exception to a proposal contained in the policy
statement today that says the government will introduce legislation that
specifically makes it "an offense to wrongfully disclose private encryption
key information and to use cryptography to commit or hide evidence of a
crime."

Making cryptography itself a special circumstance in the commission of a
crime is tantamount to adding special penalties for using "basic
instruments of communication" such as a telephone or a pen, Banisar said.

Unlike laws that single out the use of guns or other weapons specifically
designed to produce physical damage, "this is not a technology that creates
crimes," he said. "And because its intended use is going to be essentially
ubiquitous this could be an additional penalty that could apply to any kind
of crime."

Copyright (c) 1995-98 CNET, Inc.


--------------------------------NOTICE:------------------------------
ISPI Clips are news & opinion articles on privacy issues from
all points of view; they are clipped from local, national and international
newspapers, journals and magazines, etc. Inclusion as an ISPI Clip
does not necessarily reflect an endorsement of the content or opinion
by ISPI. In compliance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed free without profit or payment for non-profit research
and educational purposes only.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

ISPI Clips is a FREE e-mail service from the "Institute for the Study
of Privacy Issues" (ISPI). To receive "ISPI Clips" on a regular bases
(up to 3 - 8 clips per day) send the following message  "Please
enter [Your Name] into the ISPI Clips list: [Your e-mail address]" to:
ISPIClips@ama-gi.com  .

The Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) is a small
contributor-funded organization based in Victoria, British Columbia
(Canada). ISPI operates on a not-for-profit basis, accepts no
government funding and takes a global perspective.

ISPI's mandate is to conduct & promote interdisciplinary research
into electronic, personal and  financial privacy with a view toward
helping ordinary people understand the degree of privacy they have
with respect to government, industry and each other and to likewise
inform them about techniques to enhance their privacy.

But, none of this can be accomplished without your kind and
generous financial support. If you value in the ISPI Clips service or if
you are concerned about the erosion of your privacy in general, won't
you please help us continue this important work by becoming an "ISPI
Clips Supporter" or by taking out an institute Membership?

We gratefully accept all contributions:

  Less than $60    ISPI Clips Supporter
          $60 - $99    Primary ISPI Membership (1 year)
      $100 - $300    Senior ISPI Membership (2 years)
More than $300    Executive Council Membership (life)

Your ISPI "membership" contribution entitles you to receive "The ISPI
Privacy Reporter" (our bi-monthly 12 page hard-copy newsletter in
multi-contributor format) for the duration of your membership.

For a contribution form with postal instructions please send the following
message "ISPI Contribution Form" to ISPI4Privacy@ama-gi.com .

We maintain a strict privacy policy. Any information you divulge to ISPI
is kept in strict confidence. It will not be sold, lent or given away to
any third party.











**********************************************
To subscribe or unsubscribe, email:
     majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com
with the message:
     (un)subscribe ignition-point email@address
**********************************************
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**********************************************




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 19:13:57 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: CNS - Justice Department Seeks Expanded Power
Message-ID: <199810032339.QAA27752@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: "A.C." 
Subject: IP: CNS - Justice Department Seeks Expanded Power
Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 00:13:37 -0700
To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com

>Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 13:18:40 -0500
>From: Jim Groom 
>To: Current Events 
>Subject: CNS - Justice Department Seeks Expanded Power
>
>http://www.conservativenews.org/indepth/welcome.html
>
>Justice Department Seeks Expanded Power
>
>01 October, 1998
>
>By Ben Anderson
>CNS Staff Writer
>
>(CNS) The United States Justice Department is seeking to expand its
>authority and "obtain massive new enforcement powers" just days before a
>busy Congress scurries to finish business, according to Representative
>Bob Barr (R-GA). 
>
>If the Justice Department has its wishes, according to Barr, it could
>establish a "permanent FBI Police Force." The Justice Department is
>allegedly trying to get their "wish list" attached to appropriations
>bills to avoid public hearings or debate.
>
>Barr obtained a "wish list" by the Department which includes expanding
>definitions of terrorism to include domestic crimes unrelated to
>terrorism. The Department is also seeking to seize commercial
>transportation assets for federal use and the ability to commandeer
>personnel from other federal agencies without reimbursement. 
>
>"These requests belong in some bizarre conspiracy novel," Barr said,
>"not in serious legislative documents being circulated at the top levels
>of federal law enforcement."
>
>In addition to forcing telephone and Internet companies to divulge
>information on their customers, Justice Department officials are also
>seeking to expand wiretap authority to allow "roving" wiretaps, and
>wiretaps without any court authority, according to Barr. 
>
>"These proposals represent a sneak attack on the most cherished
>principles of our democracy. If they become a part of our law, freedom
>and privacy in America will be permanently and severely diminished,"
>Barr said. 
>
>Barr released information yesterday to expose the Justice Department's
>efforts. Barr spokesman Brad Alexander told CNS the department typically
>waits until the congressional atmosphere is clouded with lots of
>legislation to lobby sympathetic Congressmen.
>
>Alexander told CNS the wiretapping issue is something the Justice
>Department tries to expand at the end of every congressional session. 
>
>Three phone calls made to the Justice Department by CNS were not
>returned by press time.
>
>###
>----------------------------------------------------------------------

                              September 29, 1998
  
http://www.house.gov/barr/p_doj.html

                         BARR EXPOSES DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE POWER GRAB

                    WASHINGTON, DC -- U.S. Representative Bob Barr (GA-7)
                    released today information exposing an effort by the
                    Department of Justice to obtain massive new enforcement
                    powers in the closing days of the 105th Congress.
                    Barr obtained the information from a confidential
                    source within federal law enforcement. Among other
                    things, the Department's "wish list" for new authority
                    includes (among others):

                       + A vastly expanded definition of terrorism to
                         include domestic crimes having no relationship to
                         terrorism.
                       + The power to seize commercial transportation
                         assets for federal use.
                       + The ability to commander personnel from other
                         federal agencies without reimbursement.
                       + Expanded wiretap authority to allow "roving"
                         wiretaps, and wiretaps without any court
                         authority.
                       + Enlarged asset forfeiture provisions to allow the
                         FBI to seize personal property in both criminal
                         and civil matters.
                       + The establishment of a permanent "FBI Police
                         Force."
                       + Loosening of Posse Comitatus restrictions to allow
                         more military involvement in domestic law
                         enforcement.
                       + Authority to force telephone and Internet
                         companies to divulge information on their
                         customers.

                    "These requests belong in some bizarre conspiracy
                    novel, not in serious legislative documents being
                    circulated at the top levels of federal law
                    enforcement.  These proposals represent a sneak attack
                    on the most cherished principles of our democracy.  If
                    they become a part of our law, freedom and privacy in
                    America will be permanently and severely diminished,"
                    said Barr.

                    Barr also noted the Department and the FBI are
                    "shopping" this wish list in an effort to get the items
                    placed in a spending measure without hearings or
                    debate.






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with the message:
     (un)subscribe ignition-point email@address
**********************************************
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 18:38:55 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Wired News - The Golden Age of Hacktivism
Message-ID: <199810032339.QAA27762@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: Bridget973@aol.com
Subject: IP: Wired News - The Golden Age of Hacktivism
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 21:56:06 EDT
To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com

http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/15129.html


                     The Golden Age of Hacktivism
                     by Niall McKay 

                     4:00 a.m.  22.Sep.98.PDT
                     On the eve of Sweden's general election,
                     Internet saboteurs targeted the Web site
                     of that country's right-wing Moderates
                     political party, defacing pages and
                     establishing links to the homepages of the
                     left-wing party and a pornography site. 

                     But the Scandanavian crack Saturday
                     was not the work of bored juveniles
                     armed with a Unix account, a slice of
                     easily compiled code, and a few hours to
                     kill. It advanced a specific political
                     agenda. 

                     "The future of activism is on the
                     Internet," said Stanton McCandlish,
                     program director of the Electronic Frontier
                     Foundation. "More and more, what is
                     considered an offline issue, such as
                     protesting the treatment of the
                     Zapatistas in Mexico, is being protested
                     on the Net." 

                     In the computer-security community, it's
                     called "hacktivism," a kind of electronic
                     civil disobedience in which activists take
                     direct action by breaking into or
                     protesting with government or corporate
                     computer systems. It's a kind of low-level
                     information warfare, and it's on the rise. 

                     Last week, for example, a group of
                     hackers called X-pilot rewrote the home
                     page of a Mexican government site to
                     protest what they said were instances of
                     government corruption and censorship.
                     The group, which did not reply to several
                     emails, made the claims to the Hacker
                     News Network. The hacktivists were
                     bringing an offline issue into the online
                     world, McClandish said. 

                     The phenomenon is becoming common
                     enough that next month, the longtime
                     computer-security group, the Cult of the
                     Dead Cow will launch the resource site
                     hacktivism.org. The site will host online
                     workshops, demonstrations, and software
                     tools for digital activists. 

                     "We want to provide resources to
                     empower people who want to take part in
                     activism on the Internet," said Oxblood
                     Ruffian, a former United Nations
                     consultant who belongs to the Cult of the
                     Dead Cow. 

                     Oxblood Ruffian's group is no newcomer
                     to hacktivism. They have been working
                     with the Hong Kong Blondes, a
                     near-mythical group of Chinese dissidents
                     that have been infiltrating police and
                     security networks in China in an effort to
                     forewarn political targets of imminent
                     arrests. 

                     In a recent Wired News article, a member
                     of the group said it would target the
                     networks and Web sites of US companies
                     doing business with China. 

                     Other recent hacktivist actions include a
                     wave of attacks in August that drew
                     attention to alleged human rights abuses
                     in Indonesia. In June, attacks on
                     computer systems in India's atomic
                     energy research lab protested that
                     country's nuclear bomb tests. 

                     More recently, on Mexican Independence
                     Day, a US-based group called Electronic
                     Disturbance Theater targeted the Web
                     site of Mexican President Ernesto Zedillo.
                     The action was intended to protest
                     Zedillo's alleged mistreatment of the
                     Zapatista rebels in Chiapas. Nearly 8,000
                     people participated in the digital sit-in,
                     which attempted to overwhelm the
                     Mexican president's Web servers. 

                     "What we are trying to do is to find a
                     place where the public can register their
                     dissatisfaction in cyberspace, so that
                     your everyday [mouse] clicker can
                     participate in a public protest," said EDT
                     co-founder Ricardo. 

                     The apparent increase in hacktivism may
                     be due in part to the growing importance
                     of the Internet as a means of
                     communication. As more people go online,
                     Web sites become high-profile targets. 

                     It also demonstrates that many
                     government sites are fairly easy to crack,
                     said one former member of Milw0rm, the
                     now defunct group that defaced the
                     Indian research lab's Web site. In an
                     interview in Internet Relay Chat, the
                     cracker rattled off a list of vulnerable US
                     government Web sites -- including one
                     hosting an electron particle accelerator
                     and another of a US politician -- and their
                     susceptibility to bugs. 

                     "They don't pay enough for computer
                     people," said the cracker, who goes by
                     the name t3k-9. "You get $50,000 for a
                     $150,000 job." 

                     Some security experts also believe that
                     there is a new generation of crackers
                     emerging. "The rise in political cracking in
                     the past couple of years is because we
                     now have the first generation of kids that
                     have grown up with the Net," John
                     Vranesevich, founder of the computer
                     security Web site AntiOnline. "The first
                     generation of the kids that grew up
                     hacking are now between 25 and 35 --
                     often the most politically active years in
                     peoples' lives." 

                     "When the Cult of the Dead Cow was
                     started in 1984, the average age [of our
                     members] was 14, and they spent their
                     time hacking soda machines," said
                     Oxblood Ruffian. "But the last couple of
                     years has marked a turning point for us.
                     Our members are older, politicized, and
                     extremely technically proficient." 

                     While hacktivists are lining up along one
                     border, police and law enforcement
                     officials are lining up along another. 

                     This year the FBI will establish a cyber
                     warfare center called the National
                     Infrastructure Protection Center. The
                     US$64 million organization will replace the
                     Computer Investigations and
                     Infrastructure Threat Assessment Center
                     and involve the intelligence community
                     and the military. 

                     Allan Paller, director of research for the
                     SANS Institute, said the FBI is staffing
                     the new facility with the government's
                     top security experts. "They are stealing
                     people from good places, including a
                     woman from the Department of Energy
                     who was particularly good," he said in a
                     recent interview. "They are taking brilliant
                     people." 

                     Paller also said that a grassroots effort is
                     under way in Washington to establish a
                     National Intrusion Center, modeled after
                     the Centers for Disease Control. 

                     "There is definitely an increased threat of
                     cyber terrorism," said Stephen Berry,
                     spokesman for the FBI press office in
                     Washington. 

                     As offline protests -- which are protected
                     in the United States by the constitution
                     -- enter the next digital age, the
                     question remains: How will the FBI draw
                     the distinction between relatively benign
                     online political protests and cyber
                     terrorism? 




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 18:38:55 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.12: New Fingerprint Chip - Protection vs. Privacy
Message-ID: <199810032339.QAA27773@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: "ama-gi ISPI" 
Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.12: New Fingerprint Chip - Protection vs. Privacy
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 00:34:02 -0700
To: 

ISPI Clips 5.12: New Fingerprint Chip - Protection vs. Privacy
News & Info from the Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI)
Saturday October 3, 1998
ISPI4Privacy@ama-gi.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This From: The New York Times, September 28, 1998
http://www.nytimes.com


PERSONAL COMPUTING:

Tiny New Chip Could Pit Protection of Property Against Right of Privacy
http://www.nytimes.com/library/tech/98/09/cyber/compcol/29compcol-fixmer.ht
ml

By
ROB FIXMER, rob@nytimes.com


Tom Rowley seems uncomfortable in the role of braggart. A sheepish look
comes over his face when he tells you, "We're going to change the way
people live."

But Rowley's assertion is not to be taken lightly. For one thing, he said
those words once before, in the early 1980's, when the innovation he was
introducing was a concept he called voice mail. For better or worse, he did
change the way we live.

The product that inspires his boast today is a humble-looking chip, about
the size of a postage stamp and no thicker than a nickel. When attached to
a computer, it reads fingerprints with a precision that meets the Federal
Bureau of Investigation's standards for personal identification.

Beginning early next year, consumers will see the fingerprint chip
introduced in notebook computers, then in desktop devices. Every major
manufacturer of computer hardware in the United States is believed to be in
some stage of testing or developing products using the chip. Eventually, it
is all but certain to be embedded in door and car locks, bank cards,
cellular telephones, driver's licenses and the sundry other mundane objects
that identify us as consumers and citizens and give us access to places and
money.

Rowley is the chief executive of Veridicom [ http://www.veridicom.com/ ], a
tiny start-up company in Santa Clara, Calif. He is backed by venture
capital from, among others, the Intel Corporation, which recognizes the
chip's potential to open vast markets in consumer electronics, and Lucent
Technologies, which owns the patents accrued by Bell Laboratories, where
the chip was invented in the early and mid-1980's.

Although the product, known as OpenTouch, is cutting-edge technology, it is
low-tech by silicon standards, making it inexpensive to manufacture in
large numbers. The Korean and Taiwanese companies under contract to produce
it see Veridicom's chip as a way to milk a few more years from old
fabrication plants that have already been fully depreciated and might
otherwise be closed as obsolete.

All of which means that the fingerprint chip, is going to be very
inexpensive -- probably less than $10 per chip within 18 months of its
introduction, and eventually even less, industry experts said. A low price
means that it is almost certain to become far more widely used than voice
mail, whether as OpenTouch, which Veridicom will introduce in November at
the Comdex trade show, or as another company's competing product.

Far less certain is the social and political impact of the fingerprint
chip. It certainly can greatly enhance personal security. But depending on
how it is used, it could have a profound impact on privacy, for better or
worse.

The paranoid will no doubt see in this chip a conspiracy by the Government
or another Orwellian nightmare.

The real threat, though, is not from Big Brother but from a legion of what
a colleague refers to as "little brothers," business interests like
magazine publishers, banks and indemnity companies that want to track our
every move, profile our every passion, anticipate our every need either to
persuade us to part with our money or to assess us as risks for credit or
insurance.

Credible identification cuts two ways when it comes to security and
privacy. The same fingerprint reader that gives us secure access to our
home or car can be used to trace our movements through office buildings,
stores, schools and airports.

That can be good or bad depending on the circumstances and what we are up
to. I may not want anyone to know that I am in Room 1705 of the Acme
Professional Building visiting my lawyer or psychiatrist or heart
specialist or interviewing for a job -- unless the person tracking me is a
fire marshal clearing a burning building.

But if I lose my notebook computer on a flight to Seattle, I want to know
that no one will be able to rifle through my files, because the
manufacturer has frozen the code that reads the fingerprint chip so deeply
in my computer's electronics that no amount of tampering will allow another
person to boot it or to unscramble the data on my hard drive.

On the other hand, without safeguards, the same fingerprint-identified
passport that will be useless to a thief will allow governments around the
world to track my every move.

Perhaps the most ambiguous line between privacy threats and security will
be the use of Veridicom's technology on the Internet. In many ways, it will
be the ultimate "cookie," those files that Web sites place on our hard
drives to identify us, or at least our computers, when we point our
browsers in their direction.

In some ways, this is beneficial. If the fingerprint reader on my computer
serves as a certificate of identification when I buy something on line, the
seller does not know my credit card number or whether I am paying with
credit or cash. The seller may not even know my identity. Veridicom's chip
assures the seller that I am who I claim to be without revealing who I am.

Likewise, when used as an encryption key, the chip will guarantee that no
one can unscramble and read my e-mail or other documents.

But there is a darker side.

Companies are already using cookies to create personal profiles of Internet
users by aggregating every piece of information we surrender on Web sites.
The very kinds of sites we visit reveal a great deal about us to those who
want our money, and when we buy products or enter contests or register to
use a site, we reveal not only who we are but a great deal about how we
live.

At the same time, a study released this summer by the Federal Trade
Commission revealed that most businesses on the Web did not tell visitors
how the information they surrendered would be used. In a few cases, the
study found that companies sold information that they had promised users
would be kept confidential. The Clinton Administration insists that for
now, the infant electronic-commerce industries be allowed to police
themselves in matters of privacy.

That is frightening enough when our cookies give up information dropped on
our treks through cyberspace. When everything we do on line can be tied to
our credit and bank cards, driver's licenses and passports, the extra
security we have gained might well be outweighed by the privacy we have
lost.

Not surprisingly, Tom Rowley spends most of his time these days trumpeting
the potential benefits of his chip, but he does not deny its potential for
mischief. After all, he admits, at times even voice mail "is a real pain."

The social stakes this time around are a lot higher.

PERSONAL COMPUTING is published weekly, on Tuesdays.

Rob Fixmer at rob@nytimes.com welcomes your comments and suggestions.


Copyright 1998 The New York Times Company





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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 18:39:02 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.13: Identity Theft is Huge & Growing
Message-ID: <199810032339.QAA27784@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: "ama-gi ISPI" 
Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.13: Identity Theft is Huge & Growing
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 00:35:01 -0700
To: 

ISPI Clips 5.13: Identity Theft is Huge & Growing
News & Info from the Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI)
Saturday October 3, 1998
ISPI4Privacy@ama-gi.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This From: American Bar Association's, ABA Journal, October 1998
http://www.abanet.org

IDENTITY THIEVES
http://www.abanet.org/journal/oct98/10FIDENT.html

        Stealing someone's identity to buy everything from cars to toys
        and leaving the real person's credit rating in ruins may be the
        perfect crime because there is little that can be done to prosecute
        it. Until now.


BY
MICHAEL HIGGINS, higginsm@staff.abanet.org

Sometime in the early 1990s, a con man named Scott Clinton Gilbert visited
a resumé and printing shop in Las Vegas. His bill came to $185.30, and he
paid in his usual fashion: He lied.

Gilbert charged his purchase under the name "Robert Hartle." If anyone had
questioned Gilbert's true identity, the scam artist was more than ready. He
had obtained a "Robert Hartle" driver's license, Social Security card--even
a birth certificate.

Gilbert probably didn't think much of that small transaction. Before his
fraud spree was done, he would stick the real Robert Hartle with debts of
more than $110,000, including bills for three pickup trucks, two
motorcycles and a double-wide mobile home.

Gilbert, who later pleaded guilty to related charges, was one of thousands
of criminals who quietly discovered what in an increasingly cashless
society had become almost the perfect crime: identity theft. By posing as
someone else, thieves found, they could steal in a way that left victims
powerless and police uninterested.

"It was a very easy crime," says Ed Mierswinsky, a consumer advocate at
U.S. Public Interest Research Group in Washington, D.C. "Forget
restitution. Consumers couldn't even obtain peace of mind" from seeing the
criminals punished.

Today, identity theft is still a vibrant and growing criminal enterprise,
but its cover has been blown. Federal officials are holding summits and
seminars to alert law enforcement officers to the crime. State legislators
are pushing for tougher criminal penalties.

And this fall, Congress is likely to vote on a bill that would make
identity theft a federal felony, punishable by up to 15 years in prison.
Another bill would give consumers more control over who has access to
personal information, such as Social Security numbers.


A '90s Kind of Crime:

It's hard to say how widespread identity theft is because there is no
standard definition of the crime. But sometime around 1994, the number of
complaints to government, business and consumer groups began to explode.

Last year, identity theft cost consumers and financial institutions some
$745 million, according to the U.S. Secret Service, which has jurisdiction
over many financial crimes. In 1992, about 35,000 people called the credit
reporting agency Trans Union with questions or complaints about identity
theft, the company reports. Last year, calls numbered more than 523,000.

It is the victims themselves who've dragged the crime into the spotlight,
demanding that lawmakers take action.

Among them: an Arizona factory worker who helped initiate the new federal
felony bill. He's a man who first learned about identity theft in 1994,
when a collection agency called to ask why he hadn't paid his printing
bill. He's Robert Hartle.

Hartle, 46, was living with his wife, JoAnn, in Spirit Lake, Iowa, and
working as an inspector at a foundry when he was thrust into identity-theft
hell. The Hartles had been living frugally, with few bills, and made almost
all their purchases in cash.
But when Hartle got the strange call about the Las Vegas printing bill, he
ordered a copy of his credit report. It told a different story, Hartle
says. To the credit reporting agency and anyone who used its information,
Hartle was a free-spending deadbeat.

Luckier than most, Hartle had a lead on the culprit. He knew of a man going
by the name of Carl Lee Lunden who had befriended his mother in Phoenix. In
fact, "Lunden"--later found to be Gilbert--had persuaded the elderly woman,
some 30 years his senior, to marry him, giving him access to Hartle family
information. He had also made what Hartle had assumed was a joke about
working under Hartle's name.

Hartle traveled to Phoenix to present his case to police. That's where he
learned something he found hard to believe. Even if he was right about
"Lunden," the police didn't consider Hartle to be the victim of a crime.

The law enforcement logic was this: Hartle wasn't legally obligated to pay
any of the bills the impostor had run up. Therefore, Hartle wasn't out any
money. If anyone was a victim, it was the bank that issued the credit card.

Never mind that Gilbert had ruined Hartle's credit. Or that the creditors
wouldn't erase the debts without a showing of fraud. Hartle found the
police wouldn't even allow him to file a police report.

"I offered to give [the detective] the evidence, and he refused to take
it," Hartle recalls. "I told him that I was not a lawyer or a police
officer, but I knew that crimes had been committed."

By mid-1994, Hartle was in desperate shape. Gilbert had left Hartle's
mother and fled Arizona, but hadn't stopped using his name. Hartle was
spending $400 a month on phone calls, trying to get creditors off his back
and law enforcement onto Gilbert.

"Our credit was ruined. We couldn't move ahead with our lives. Everything
was on hold," he says. "We couldn't continue to live like this."

In Hartle's case, the con man he was chasing was crafty. Gilbert had moved
to Phoenix from Florida, where he had a criminal record. But identity
thieves don't need to be so devious. All that wouldbe thieves require is a
credit card application and some basic personal information about their
target.

The key piece of information--the victim's Social Security number--is
surprisingly easy to get. It's widely available on credit reports. And it's
often the account number on documents that thieves can steal from their
victims' mail or dig out from their garbage.


Lawyers Can Be Victims, Too:

Mari Frank, a lawyer in Laguna Niguel, Calif., found out firsthand how
easily a scam artist can steal someone's name.

In August 1996, Frank got a call from a bank in Delaware, asking why she
hadn't paid an $11,000 balance on a Toys "R" Us credit card. When Frank
asked where the bank had been sending the billing statements, she got an
address in Ventura, Calif., about 80 miles north of her.

It was Frank's first clue that an identity thief had run up bills of about
$50,000 in her name. "She had gotten a red convertible Mustang that she was
driving around --with my credit," says Frank, now an advocate for tougher
identity theft laws. "She got a driver's license with my name."

The thief in Frank's case was anything but sophisticated. She got Frank's
credit report by saying she was a private investigator. To get the Toys "R"
Us card, Frank says, the woman had simply crossed out her own name on the
application and written in "Mari Frank."

Another victim-turned-advocate is Jessica Grant, who also was shocked to
find out how unprotected she was. Grant, a pension manager in Sun Prairie,
Wis., had always used credit sparingly. But when she and her husband tried
to refinance their home in December 1997, they found that an impostor had
run up about $60,000 worth of debt in Grant's name.

The thief, who lived in Texas, had opened 19 separate accounts. In some
cases, the impostor got credit in Grant's name despite submitting
applications with a residence and employer that didn't match Grant's.

"That's the part of it that just infuriates me," Grant says. "There was
just so much information that could have been--and should have
been--questioned. But it never was."


Dilemma of Enforcement:

Like Hartle, both Frank and Grant found that local police did not consider
them to be victims of crime. Both took their cases to federal law
enforcement--the fbi and U.S. Secret Service--where they found good news
and bad.

Federal law does prohibit the fraudulent misuse of identification, bank
cards and Social Security numbers. 18 U.S.C. 1028, 10 U.S.C. 1028, 42
U.S.C. 408.
But, Frank and Grant both say, federal investigators told them they deal
only with multistate fraud rings and cases worth upward of $200,000. Their
cases didn't qualify.

For the feds, it's a predicament, says James Bauer, a deputy assistant
director in the Secret Service and a proponent of tougher identity theft
laws. For example, Bauer's office is shutting down a fraud ring in which
the thieves used stolen identities to buy cars, then cleverly leveraged
their bounty. The thieves would take the car out of state, sell it, use the
money to make a down payment on a house, then take out second mortgages on
the house.

"Multiply that times the 36 cars that we know about so far, and it amounts
to literally millions of dollars," Bauer says.

But while the feds have struggled to crack those sorts of operations,
relatively small fish like Scott Gilbert have wriggled free.

In theory, the banks that issue the credit cards--the real victims, in the
eyes of local police--could push harder for prosecution.

But according to U.S. Sen. Jon Kyle, R-Ariz., sponsor of the new federal
identity theft bill, banks often have insurance to cover their losses. And
they know their chances of getting any restitution may be slim.

Even if police do investigate, identity theft cases can be expensive to
prosecute, says Donald Grant, a Ventura County, Calif., deputy district
attorney whose office handled Frank's case.

Prosecutors have a strong incentive to work a plea deal because trying the
case means paying to bring in bank employees as witnesses, as well as bank
records from across the country, he says.

They also know judges aren't likely to give jail time to nonviolent
criminals, especially if the dollar amount is relatively small or the
defendant is a first-time offender.

"To prosecute these cases is a godawful pain in the neck," Grant says. If
there's a trial, "We generate a lot of expense to taxpayers, and it's not a
prison case. It's sort of a no-win situation for the victims," he concedes.

And it's identity theft victims who are left trying to explain all this to
creditors and collection agencies, who often suspect the victim of being
the impostor. "I was getting outright, flat-out abusive treatment," says
victim Grant. "I was in a position where I had to prove who I was, when
they never bothered to ask [the thief] to prove who she was."

By the time Hartle and his wife had moved to Phoenix to plead their case
with law enforcement officials, Gilbert had fled. In November 1994, state
police in New Hampshire picked him up on charges of trying to get a fake
driver's license, Hartle says. Out on bail, Gilbert called Hartle and tried
to get him to stop his pursuit. When Hartle refused, Gilbert taunted him.

"He told me ... he wasn't going to quit using my identity until he felt
like stopping," Hartle recalls. When Hartle threatened to track down
Gilbert himself, "He laughed at me, said, 'Go ahead and try it because
nobody's going to convict me.' "

At the time, Hartle recalls, "It was beginning to look like he was right."

But in early 1995, Hartle finally got a break. He had contacted U.S. Sen.
Thomas Harkin, D-Iowa, and asked him to press federal prosecutors to help.
In February 1995, they indicted Gilbert for buying guns under a false name
and misusing a credit card. Gilbert pleaded guilty and was sentenced to 17
months in prison.

But Hartle decided that wasn't enough. He turned to a state representative
in Arizona, who pushed state prosecutors to reconsider Hartle's complaints.
In October 1995, Gilbert pleaded guilty to perjury in state court and was
sentenced to four years in prison.

In total, Gilbert served a little more than three years. Not bad, Hartle
says, "when you consider that when I started this, no one was interested."


Hard to Pin Down:

Despite what their victims go through, it's unusual for an identity thief
to get a sentence as severe as Gilbert's.

Take Mari Frank's case. She was fortunate to find a police supervisor in
Ventura, himself a victim of identity theft, who ordered an investigation.
Police arrested her identity thief in October 1996, Frank says.

But the woman missed her sentencing hearing that December and remained free
until police picked her up on other charges in January 1997.

"She finally did a two-month work furlough program ... staying at a halfway
house," Frank says. The thief drove to the program in the red Mustang she
had bought with Frank's credit.

"Violent crime does take precedence," Frank says. "I understand that. But
the criminals know this is not really taken seriously. There [have] to be
some identity thieves going to jail and doing some real time."

Jessica Grant says she grew frustrated trying to get the Texas state police
to take action. She eventually got help from the Houston police and an
investigator with the Social Security Administration. As of July, the
investigator had confronted a suspect and was preparing to file charges,
Grant says.

But identity theft itself isn't a crime in Texas. "The law that they're
charging her with is the misuse of a Social Security number," Grant says.
"She will probably not get jail time."

All three victims paid a stiff price to clean up their credit records.
Hartle estimates that he spent about $15,000 out of his own pocket during
the ordeal. Grant says she has logged 158 hours, so far, trying to
straighten out creditors. Frank, the lawyer, says she cleaned her credit
record in eight months. But it took 90 letters, 500 hours and more than
$10,000 in out-of-pocket expenses, she says.


Beyond Bad Credit:

For some victims, it gets even worse. Impostors have been known to commit
crimes, then give their fake identity to police when they're arrested.

"We're hearing more and more cases these days where the identity theft
victim is saddled with a criminal record," says Beth Givens, project
director at the Privacy Rights Clearinghouse, a San Diego-based group that
aids identity theft victims. "That's what I call the worst-case scenario."

Some victims may never learn of all the damage that was done, notes Jodie
Bernstein, director of the Bureau of Consumer Protection of the Federal
Trade Commission.

"If your credit history is destroyed, you may not even know if it went to
some potential employer and you didn't get a job," she says. "The victims
we talk to eventually get it sorted out, but at great cost."

Bauer of the Secret Service relates another story: "I know a [thief] out
West who actually died using the victim's name," he says. The victim "had
to get a death certificate undone."

Hartle, Frank and Grant have pushed for reforms that are starting to change
how the nation deals with identity theft.

In Arizona, Hartle contacted his state legislator about making identity
theft a serious crime that local police couldn't ignore. In July 1996, the
state made it a felony--the first law of its kind in the nation.

In California, Frank joined victims testifying last year on behalf of a
bill that made identity theft a misdemeanor. As of July, she had testified
eight more times in support of other identity theft measures, including one
bill that would make it a felony in some circumstances.

Frank, who works primarily as a mediator, also has written a book, From
Victim to Victor: A Step-By-Step Guide for Ending the Nightmare of Identity
Theft. And she has assembled a self-help kit and created a Web site,
http://www.identitytheft.org , to assist victims.

Frank says that because identity theft is so new, some lawyers misadvise
clients. She has heard of lawyers counseling victims to change their Social
Security number or declare bankruptcy, two strategies she says are
counterproductive because they ultimately burden the victim with even more
legal difficulties.

Grant, lobbying in Wisconsin, got the quickest legislative action. In
February, two months after she discovered she was a victim, Grant was the
subject of a front-page article in the Wisconsin State Journal.

State Rep. Marlin Schneider, an outspoken privacy hawk, introduced a bill
in her name making identity theft a felony there. Grant visited the
Wisconsin Capitol and talked to legislators, including one trip in March
with a local TV-news camera crew in tow.

The bill passed in April. When Gov. Tommy Thompson signed it into law,
Grant got to keep the pen.

And Hartle--four years after his first, confusing phone call about a
$185.30 printing bill--hopes that this fall he will become one of the few
victim-advocates to push through the same law at both the state and federal
levels.

With prodding from Hartle, Kyle, a member of the Senate Judiciary
Committee, introduced the Identity Theft and Assumption Deterrence Act last
year. The act makes identity theft that crosses state lines a federal
felony, punishable by up to 15 years in prison. It also allows restitution
to victims.

The larger war over who has control over personal information is one that
will be fought well into the next century.

Many issues are just now being identified. The financial and credit
industries certainly have their share of political muscle. But don't count
out those mistreated by the system--the Hartles, Franks and Grants.

"They have lived through the Orwellian nightmare," consumer advocate
Mierswinsky says. "The victims of identity theft are a force to be reckoned
with."


VICTIMS WORK TO KEEP PERSONAL DATA PRIVATE

Although they've been the driving force behind identity theft laws in
several states, the victims of this scam say what they've accomplished
isn't nearly enough. Along with consumer groups, they're pushing for
tougher restrictions on how businesses use personal information.

High on their wish list: a bill introduced by U.S. Sen. Dianne Feinstein,
D-Calif., that would force businesses to get a person's consent before
selling Social Security numbers and other personal data commonly found on
credit reports.

Consumer advocates blame banks and credit card companies for issuing
preapproved credit applications and then not screening carefully enough for
impostor applicants. They say merchants add to the problem by hawking
"instant credit" cards at the checkout counter.

"The lack of verification at that level is astounding," says Ed
Mierswinsky, a consumer advocate at U.S. Public Interest Research Group in
Washington, D.C.

The credit reporting industry says it, too, is concerned about identity
theft. Staffing has been increased on fraud hotlines, and sophisticated
software is being put to use to detect spending patterns that may indicate
fraud.

Visa suffered $470 million in fraud losses in the United States last year,
but only 4 percent was due to identity theft, says Dennis Brosan, Visa's
vice president of fraud control in McLean, Va. That's down 12 percent from
just a few years ago.

But the credit reporting industry opposes restrictions on selling personal
information. Officials say the information actually helps prevent identity
theft because it makes it easier for banks and merchants to confirm whether
people applying for credit are who they say they are. The data also
accounts for tens of millions of dollars in annual sales for credit
reporting agencies, the U.S. General Accounting Office reported in March.

For lenders, there's a tension between serving customers who want tight
security and those who bristle at being asked for three pieces of
identification for every transaction.

"All we can do is hope that the companies that have this ability to
minimize the threat are doing everything they can," says Robert McKew,
general counsel for American Financial Services Association, a trade group
in Washington, D.C., whose members include many lenders. "I believe that
they are."

U.S. Sen. Jon Kyle, R-Ariz., sponsor of a new federal identity theft bill,
says he is reluctant to blame lenders.

"They're dealing with a lot of deadbeats, frankly, and everybody has a
story," Kyle says. "It's very, very hard in today's world. In order to get
credit you've got to give information. And once that information is in the
commercial stream, it's very difficult to protect it."


Michael Higgins, a lawyer, is a reporter for the aba Journal. His e-mail
address is higginsm@staff.abanet.org.

Copyright American Bar Association.

American Bar Association 750 N. Lake Shore Dr., Chicago, IL 60611
312/988-5000 info@abanet.org

--------------------------------NOTICE:------------------------------
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 18:38:55 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Got a Cause and a Computer? You Can Fight City Hall
Message-ID: <199810032340.QAA27817@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Got a Cause and a Computer? You Can Fight City Hall
Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 10:17:14 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  New York Times
http://www.nytimes.com/yr/mo/day/news/national/interactive-townhall.html

October 3, 1998

Got a Cause and a Computer? You Can Fight City Hall

By RICK LYMAN

AUSTIN, Texas -- Bill Clinton seems to have generated the most
petitions, calling for him to be impeached, to resign, to be left
alone. Thirteen people have signed one demanding a ban on tigers and
other exotic cats as pets. Eight favor the establishment of areas in national
parks for nudists. But a petition demanding statehood for New York City
attracted not a single signatory, not one, not even Donald Trump. 

In that dark epoch between the discovery of fire and the discovery of the
World Wide Web, the Bolsheviks had to storm the Winter Palace to get
their point across. 

Now it can all be done with the gentle click of a mouse button. 

"I got the idea when I was sitting at home in Austin watching a city
council debate on cable television," Alex Sheshunoff, 24, said. "The issue
they were discussing was very important, but the debate was really
boring, enough to induce narcolepsy. I started wondering: How can you
get citizens involved in the democratic process when they don't have time
to spend three hours at a city council meeting waiting to make a
three-minute statement?" 

His answer: E-The People, which describes itself as "America's
Interactive Town Hall" and resides in cyberspace at
www.e-thepeople.com. 

Those who find their way to the Web site, either directly or through one
of the newspapers or nonprofit agencies that are Sheshunoff's partners,
are given the chance to sign a petition already posted on the site, create a
new petition or write a letter to government officials about whatever is
stuck in their craw. 

"There have been a lot of people talking recently about the intersection of
democracy and the Internet," Sheshunoff said, "but not a lot of people
sitting down and writing the code. That's where we come in." 

E-The People has been open since August but is still trying to "stomp out
the last of the bugs," Sheshunoff said, and should be fully operational in a
month or so. 

The Web site, which also bills itself as "an Alex Sheshunoff Initiative," is
designed to connect citizens with their government officials, local or
national, and to turn a profit for Sheshunoff and his investors. 

For example, a Houston resident interested in protesting about the
environment is led through a process of identifying whom he should
contact (a click calls up a list that includes the governor, lieutenant
governor, city council representative, 26 state representatives, eight state
senators and 20 agency officials with specific responsibility for the
environment). 

Then the resident can compose a message that is automatically sent as
e-mail to whichever officials are selected, or as a fax, if the recipient has
no e-mail address. It is all free for the petitioners and letter writers.
Advertisers and media partners pay the freight. 

Messages can also be sent to the White House or to Congress,
Sheshunoff said, but the central intent is to address local issues. 

"The president already received a half-million e-mails a month, but for a
city council member to receive 10 letters on a single subject can have a
real impact," he said. "This is really about local people solving local
problems." 

The letters are treated as private mail, Sheshunoff said. E-The People
takes no note of their content and promises it will sell none of the
demographic data that might be collected in the process. 

Sheshunoff's initiative operates from an office on the 19th floor of a tower
in downtown Austin, part of a suite of offices that are home to Alex
Sheshunoff Management Services, the company run by his father, a
well-known banking consultant. 

The younger Sheshunoff prowled his small room recently, a thatch of
sandy hair brushing his forehead, occasionally grabbing for a purring
cellular telephone while a team of young programmers hunched over
keyboards frantically tapping in data. An American flag dominated one
wall while a map of the United States filled another, showing the route of
an 80-city transcontinental bus tour that Sheshunoff has been running to
spread the word. 

The bus, decorated to resemble a mailbox, left Austin on Aug. 1 and has
made its way across the Southwest, up the Pacific Coast and across the
prairies into the Midwest, New England and New York. It is heading
south on its return to Texas. 

So far, 45 newspapers have agreed to go into partnership with E-The
People, meaning they will feature a link to the site on their own Web
pages and share with E-The People any advertising revenues generated
by surfers traversing that link. Among those signed up are The San
Antonio Express-News, The Oregonian in Portland and The Daily News
in New York. Sheshunoff is hoping for 100 media partners. 

Sheshunoff once considered a career in network television. While a
student at Yale, he did some work for ABC News, as a production
assistant and then reading his own short, personal essays in the wee
hours. Then he read somewhere that the audience for network television
news had dropped 30 percent since 1990. 

Sheshunoff said he spent his senior year "thinking about where news was
going." This led him, as it has hundreds of others in his generation, to the
Internet. 

His first effort was an online magazine developed as a way of allowing
readers to pinpoint the restaurants and other venues nearest their homes.
"We sold some of that underlying technology to newspapers and others,
for their Web pages," he said. 

A similar process is used in E-The People, he said, but it is more
sophisticated. 

"It's not as easy as it sounds," he said, "to take somebody's address and
tell them who their elected officials are." 

 Copyright 1998 The New York Times Company
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 19:02:05 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: [SoftSpeech] Interplay between Crypto Export Regs and Copyright (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810040006.TAA29546@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 23:53:01 +0100
> From: Adam Back 
> Subject: Re: [SoftSpeech] Interplay between Crypto Export Regs and Copyright

> Recall PRZ himself did not export anything, and yet the Feds were
> building the case on the basis that he allowed it to be exported, or
> did not try hard enough to prevent it being exported.  Rumor has it
> that a low profile cypherpunk type, Kelly Goen, had something to do
> with it, and he was the lesser publicized 2nd defendent in the USG
> investigation of PRZ and associate.

If this approach is so air-tight why is PRZ still walking around a free man?


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 13:39:22 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Is the .to (Tonga) domain completely rogue and should be removed?
Message-ID: <199810031841.UAA06353@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Read RFC 1123, section 5.2.3. 

      5.2.3  VRFY and EXPN Commands: RFC-821 Section 3.3

         A receiver-SMTP MUST implement VRFY and SHOULD implement EXPN
         (this requirement overrides RFC-821).  However, there MAY be
         configuration information to disable VRFY and EXPN in a
         particular installation; this might even allow EXPN to be
         disabled for selected lists.

         A new reply code is defined for the VRFY command:

              252 Cannot VRFY user (e.g., info is not local), but will
                  take message for this user and attempt delivery.

         DISCUSSION:
              SMTP users and administrators make regular use of these
              commands for diagnosing mail delivery problems.  With the
              increasing use of multi-level mailing list expansion
              (sometimes more than two levels), EXPN has been
              increasingly important for diagnosing inadvertent mail
              loops.  On the other hand,  some feel that EXPN represents
              a significant privacy, and perhaps even a security,
              exposure.

VRFY is hardly an "incorrect SMTP command."

>Your reasoning as to why its responses to incorrect SMTP
>commands constitutes evidence that the .TO domain is "negligent",
>"mismanaged" and "an attractive resource for criminal activities"
>is ironically incorrect. In fact, having an *unsecured* port 25 open to mail
>relaying would be negligent.

>Best regards,

>- Eric Gullichsen
>  Tonic Corporation
>  Kingdom of Tonga Network Information Center
>  http://www.tonic.to
>  Email: egullich@tonic.to








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Blanc" 
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 01:06:01 +0800
To: 
Subject: RE: importance of motivation
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <000201bdef5e$06345860$3a8195cf@blanc>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>From Robert Hettinga:

: However, I *do* know that when I take ritalin, I can do boring stuff much
: easier. I'm a very grouchy bastard, but the boring stuff gets done. And, a
: very large percentage of people with the DSM-V "diagnosis" of ADHD (H, for
: "hyperactive", is Tim's lost initial there, probably a Freudian slip ;-)),
: also focus better with ritalin or dexedrine in their bloodstreams, at least
: in clinical trials. I also know that when you run PET scans
: of people who have ADD (I'm not as hyperactive as I was as a kid...) their
: brains look markedly different from those of  "normal" people when they try to
: concentrate on something too long.
....................................................................................


I notice that when I'm intoxicated with various fermented substances, I'm much less inhibited about
everything and more amenable to doing things I would otherwise examine with critical judgement.  

Many people come to depend on these props for their motivation and find they can't function without
them.  That's the problem, and it's recognizeable in regards to alcohol and recreational drugs, but
apparently not so identifiable with the sanctioned, prescribed ones.   They temporarily boost the
system and the person can function, minus a few little negative, annoying, possibly dangerous,
complications.   But they don't strengthen the person's system, they  don't have noticeably
beneficial effects on the person's physical system (they way food does, for instance).

Sometimes I've pondered just what the difference is between any kind of drug or any kind of food or
other 'natural' chemical that we take into our bodies (such as water or oxygen), which we normally
use to function.   These things circulate through us and we incorporate some of them and
exude/excrete/eliminate the others.   If we don't get oxygen quickly, or water very soon, or food
eventually, our strength wanes and we die (and it's also possible to "OD" on water).   With stuff
like cocaine or heart medicine, a person suffers extremely and/or dies just the same

An important difference I can identify is the effects upon our strength and ability from the use of
any chemical we consume.  Anything which leaves us weak:  Bad.    Strength, self-reliance, efficacy:
Good.

But the most important difference is the quality of one's conscious state: the more, the better -
greater clarity over one's circumstance, greater control possible over one own functions and things
around one, a better sense of being "oneself", under one's own direction (authority).

The less of this, the more is lost (as in 'loser').
You have to "be" there, to get it.


    ..
Blanc




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Blanc" 
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 01:06:06 +0800
To: 
Subject: RE: importance of motivation
In-Reply-To: <199810031436.KAA00893@camel7.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <000301bdef5e$0bddee20$3a8195cf@blanc>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>From John Young:

: 'Twould be nice if rationality waned for a generation or
: many, give us time to recover from being overdosed with
: it since the ahem Renaissance, and suffering the damage of
: Renaissance Persons with pseudo-mastery of more than
: they know how to handle except to blow the shit out of a
: world they cannot truly comprehend except as a clueless
: wad defying self-annointe High IQers.
..........................................................................


You are mistaken, John.   I won't say it depends upon what your definition of "is", is, but ...
rationality is not the opposite of sanity.  I think you're really thinking about coerced
intelligence, as practiced in the public schools and various places of presumptions to authority.
That is not the intended meaning of the word.   Being rational has nothing to do with imposing one's
methods on others.   Rationality, which would support one's own, also prevents the motivation
towards disturbing another's peace.   Rather should you blame the lack of perspective and the
problems of a disturbed psychology.

    ..
Blanc




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: KCzzzzz@aol.com
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 23:43:21 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Please include me
Message-ID: <80e9319b.3616faed@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Include me on your mailing list 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Jean-Francois Avon" 
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 00:16:25 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks" 
Subject: Q to cypherpunks.    WAS:Re: Please stop forwarding Canadian Firearms Digest to Cypherpunks List!
Message-ID: <199810040511.BAA20165@cti06.citenet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Q for you CPunks: did PGP v.5.5.3i was truly peer-reviewed for flaws or 
backdoors?  If not, which is that last version that was?


On Sat, 03 Oct 1998 14:20:42 -0700, Bill Stewart wrote:

>Hi!  Of course most of us believe that firearms registration is wrong
>and that the right to own weapons is the right to be free,
>and I suppose it is a break from Clinton&Monica rants,
>but still, please stop forwarding the Canadian firearms stuff to
>the cypherpunks list.  

Is is not about the right to be free, it is about govt organizing seriously to 
deny that right.   :-S


OK, I'll stop.  No problemo Bill.  OTOH, I will still post articles with 
relevance to crypto from the list or elsewhere.

Some of thoses articles will possibly have nothing to do with crypto except 
that they will be modifications or subtleties of ITAR.

Just so you know: I spend a lot of keystrokes teaching PGP to various peoples 
nowadays...

Ciao all C'Punks.

jfa


Jean-Francois Avon, Pierrefonds (Montreal), Canada

Unregistered Firearms in the hands of honest citizens: Liberty's Teeth
Strong Cryptographic tools in the hands of honest citizens: Liberty's Voice

He who beats his sword into a ploughshare will get coerced to plow for 
those who don't...

PGP keys: http://bs.mit.edu:8001/pks-toplev.html
PGP ID:C58ADD0D:529645E8205A8A5E F87CC86FAEFEF891 
PGP ID:5B51964D:152ACCBCD4A481B0 254011193237822C





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Blanc" 
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 04:39:13 +0800
To: "'cypherpunks'" 
Subject: Dial 1-800-SPY TECH
Message-ID: <000401bdef7b$c04057a0$3a8195cf@blanc>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I was surfing the web, looked at http://www.spaceinvestor.com/, when I noticed an article with the
above title, referring to this company:

Applied Signal Technology (APSG)
Spy vs Spy gadgetry for the 21st Century. This company is the quality producer of surveillance
equipment and is on track for consistent revenue gains of 15 - 20%...
(also see Quarterly Earnings Report)


Copied below are a couple of paragraphs about the company:

In actuality the new Spy is a technological marvel of electronic hardware, computers, and software,
that manifests into the latest high tech signal reconnaissance equipment. And the best of these new
Techno-Bonds that process, evaluate, and store wireless telecommunications signals are produced by a
small Silicon Valley company called Applied Signal Technology.

Applied Signal Technology, stock ticker symbol: APSG, is a leader in the growing niche market of
signal reconnaissance. Applied Signal Technology designs equipment to collect and process foreign
telecommunication signals. The company's products include equipment that scans cellular-telephone,
microwave, ship-to-shore, and military-radio-frequency transmissions; computer-based processing
equipment then evaluates collected signals and selects those likely to contain relevant information.
Over 95% of the company's revenue is derived from purchases by United States government agencies
under contracts.
[....]
Investors should consider adding APSG to their long term portfolio. It has positive characteristics
of a stock ready to surge higher. Hopefully an APSG stock price increase will become the sequel to
"The Spy who loved me".


   ..
Blanc




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 19:50:30 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Microsoft
Message-ID: <199810040052.CAA01147@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I'd always wondered how Bill Gates could shit with that pole so far up his ass. 
Then I realized: The pole is too long to be completely embedded in his ass and 
he uses the other half of it to rape computer users everywhere on a regular 
basis. And since the pole is crammed in his ass he can't shit, so he just 
retains his shit, making him incredibly anal retentive. I'm sure he enjoys
this.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Rain Dog" 
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 05:38:12 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Ordered to be celibate?
Message-ID: <19981004103730.4452.qmail@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Judge Orders Teen To Be Celibate

CAMBRIDGE, Ill. (AP) -- A teen-ager who pleaded guilty to stealing 
handguns
must remain celibate for 2 1/2 years unless he gets married, a judge 
said.

Brandon Stevens, 17, was sentenced Wednesday to 30 months probation, 180 
days
in jail and a $2,000 fine. Henry County Judge Clarke Barnes said Stevens 
won't
have to serve jail time if he completes treatment at a halfway house and 
meets
conditions that include the celibacy rule.

``Certainly he's got no business having sexual relations with people to 
whom
he's not married,'' Barnes said.

Prosecutor Ted Hamer said the requirement was based on the judge's 
learning in
court that Stevens was sexually active, not because of any sexually 
related
charges.

The American Civil Liberties Union said Stevens' sex life is none of the
judge's business.

And it's not clear how to enforce Barnes' order.

``It's sort of a self-policing type of order,'' Hamer said. ``Nobody's 
going
to be spying on him or looking in windows. I think the judge just hopes 
he'll
abide by the order.''



______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 00:11:26 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Please include me
In-Reply-To: <80e9319b.3616faed@aol.com>
Message-ID: <199810040506.FAA29119@earth.wazoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



  > Include me on your mailing list

Me too!!!!

-- an anonymous AOL31 user




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 01:22:15 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Please include me
Message-ID: <199810040616.GAA30836@earth.wazoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



piss off!

ME FIRST!

>From cypherpunks-errors@toad.com Sat Oct  3 22:43:06 1998
>Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 05:06:01 GMT
>Message-Id: <199810040506.FAA29119@earth.wazoo.com>
>From: Anonymous 
>Comments: This message did not originate from the Sender >address above.
>It was remailed automatically by anonymizing remailer software.
>Please report problems or inappropriate use to the
>remailer administrator at .
>Subject: Re: Please include me
>References: <80e9319b.3616faed@aol.com>
>To: cypherpunks@toad.com
>Sender: owner-cypherpunks@toad.com
>Precedence: bulk

>  > Include me on your mailing list

>Me too!!!!

>-- an anonymous AOL31 user




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 08:23:48 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810041326.IAA30916@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: "Brown, R Ken" 
> Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
> Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 05:28:08 -0500 

> I don't believe there are that many natural monopolies  Where there *are*
> natural monopolies it is because the entry cost is higher than any likely
> profit.

There are some additional issues involved other than start-up cost. Such
things as market saturation and information hording.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 08:27:48 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810041331.IAA30976@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: Matthew James Gering 
> Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
> Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 02:43:25 -0700 

> One thing that has changed fundamentally in the Information Age is the
> ability for the consumer to get informed -- the ease if information
> publishing and retrieval and the inability to control it.

Actualy you are ascribing an effect as the cause. The information is there
because the holders believe it's in their best interest to dissiminate it.
As companies (the US Army' current behaviour is a good example) become to
respect the distribution capability of the internet you'll see a reduction
of information available.

> Reputation has
> more value then ever.

Malarky. Reputation is irrelevant, just examine the prisoners delima.
Those who put reputation over action are setting themselves up for a classic
abuse of trust.

> Government cannot protect people from their own decisions, and should
> not have the right to take those decisions away.

> I wouldn't eat at McDonalds even with all the regulation.

You've got to be married or have lots of free time...;)

> More often than not regulation is a false sense of security, and often
> protects companies from legitimate liability (although god knows our
> liability/tort system is completely out of whack).

More often that not regulation is the result of abuse of the market by a
manufacturer and is imposed ex post facto. It's intent is to eliminate
future abuses.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 08:31:10 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810041334.IAA31037@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 22:28:49 -0700
> From: "James A. Donald" 
> Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)

> Bullshit.  No monopoly has ever happened except by regulation

That is truly Bullshit.

Microsoft got to where it is because of a lack of regulation, the abuses of
the aircraft industry  in the 1940-50's that led to regulation at the end of
the 50's and 60's. The steel industry in the north east in the early 1900's.
The food packing and garment industries of the north east and pacific coast
in the 20's through the 50's. The railroad industry in the mid-1800's.

Every one of these created a monopolistic market because of a *lack* of
regulation.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 08:57:35 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810041400.JAA31111@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: Matthew James Gering 
> Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
> Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 02:26:21 -0700 

> > In what way are the resulting markets different from
> > either the producers or consumers view?
> 
> Views on intellectual property and the obvious marketplace changes due
> to an IP or lack of IP framework would be the major difference IMHO. I

Explain further, from your description of the differences there are no
fundamental mentionings or views of intellectual property. As a matter of
fact the specific role of the individual is never even mentioned in either
definition.

It's almost like there is something poping out of thin air...

> > Explain further what you mean by abolition of force is a 
> > prerequisite please.
> 
> Basically no person (or entity) can use force (or its derivatives)
> against another person (or entity). Your long history of criminal law,
> except stripped of all victimless crimes.

So people don't have a right to self-defence? I agree consensual crimes are
not crimes.

> > And what specificaly do you mean by proper role of government?
> 
> "What, then, is law? It is the collective organization of the individual
> right to lawful defense. 

Is it? Or is it simply another sort of coercion to cooperate with the
collective? Is it not actualy the embodyment of ideals, an attempt at utopia
if you will?

> Each of us has a natural right--from God--to defend his person, his
> liberty, and his property. These are the three basic requirements of
> life, and the preservation of any one of them is completely dependent
> upon the preservation of the other two. For what are our faculties but
> the extension of our individuality? And what is property but an
> extension of our faculties? 

I'm interesting to see how you reconcile the belief nobody has a right to
use force yet has a right to defend their life.

By facluty I assume you mean our emotional and psychological makeup coupled
with our sensory record of them.

I'd say that such issues are not a facet of individualism but rather a
characteristic of life itself.

As to property, it is a consequence of our biology, if that is a consequence
of our faculties, and not visa versa, I'd doubt.

> If every person has the right to defend -- even by force -- his person,
> his liberty, and his property, then it follows that a group of men have
> the right to organize and support a common force to protect these rights

No it doesn't. You must first prove that a group of individuals have some
right that as individuals they don't have. For one thing, even in your
definition, rights are a fundamental aspect of birth as an individual.

Something I've yet to see.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 09:01:48 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810041405.JAA31171@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 22:33:24 -0700
> From: "James A. Donald" 
> Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)

> In america the various mafias get plently of competition,
> mostly by means short of actual warfare.  Coke is a free
> market except for police intervention, and the local church
> is most certainly not a monopoly.

Coke is a free-market? That's a laugh. I suggest you study the history of
the Crips and related gangs, or the international Coke distributors. At no
time was there more than a dozen or so groups and they worked cooperatively
in many cases. As to the 'various mafias', in case you hadn't heard, they've
been organized and integrated for about 30-40 years depending on who you ask.
They cooperatively divide up territories and product lines between them to
guarantee a minimum of violence and maximize profit for each member. However,
I would lay dollars to donuts that if you were to go start your own family
there would be very little consideration as to the consequences.

Make no bones about it, if we're talking national or international crime it
is most definitely organized and cooperatively arranged between a small set
of players. That's a monopoly.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 09:05:33 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810041408.JAA31231@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 22:33:24 -0700
> From: "James A. Donald" 
> Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)

> market except for police intervention, and the local church
> is most certainly not a monopoly.

Your local church is a member of a larger international collective that does
in fact use coercion in one form or another.

Consider the consequences of abortion for a Catholic (true believer). Tell
that to the various hospices and clinics that have been blown to kingdom
come...

Coercion is a much broader stroke than a simple assault. It can include real
and imagined consequences to alter or limit the behaviour of others.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 09:15:42 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: IP: Clear and present danger: FIGHT AGAINST NATIONAL ID CARD (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810041418.JAA31300@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 21:42:38 +0200
> From: "Albert P. Franco, II" 
> Subject: IP: Clear and present danger: FIGHT AGAINST NATIONAL ID CARD
>   (fwd)

> I think the original message speaks of executive, legislative, and judicial
> branches. As defined by the constitution this is, in fact, the federal
> government.

> As a matter of practice, most if not all, of the states are
> also divided this way. Article X which you quoted supports the tacit
> understanding that We, the people, are not actually THE government.

Really? Please expound...

We, the People of the United States, in order to form a more perfect Union, 
establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common 
defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to 
ourselves and our Posterity do ordain and establish this Constitution for the 
United States of America. 

				ARTICLE IX. 
 
	The enumeration of the Constitution, of certain rights, shall 
not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people. 
 
  
				ARTICLE X. 
 
	The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, 
nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, 
or to the people. 
 
 -------------------------------------------------------------------------

It in fact supports NO such interpretation unless you take it out of context
and alone. Much like trying to determine the ecology of a valley by
examinging a single fish...

In fact what it does say is that the Constitution was implimented by the
people and not by a government *granting* rights and privileges. It futher
states that it does not limit the rights or privileges of the people (note
it doesn't mention federal or state govts.) futher backing up that we the
people are implimenting this and not the other way around. Finaly it
specificaly states that the order of resolution for any issue is to see if
it's specificaly given to the federal govt., if not (and it's not
prohibited), then to the states (to resolve via their own representative
systems), and finaly if not covered by those two documents (the US
Constitution and the individual state constitution) then it is retained by
the people.

So we find that in fact we the people *are* the initial and final authority.

The bottem line is that *the government of the United States* consists of
three parties, the federal system, the state, and the people. That is the
government of this country and not some figmented heirarchy that has zero
basis for support.

The reason the federal is broken into 3 seperate sections is so that  there
is a measure of conflict and confrontation involved. *THE* basis for a
working democracy is the limited use of cooperation.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Stu Green 
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 11:17:43 +0800
To: alg 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "James A. Donald" 
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 13:58:21 +0800
To: Matthew James Gering 
Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A1928471D@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
Message-ID: <4.0.2.19981004113522.00b24be0@shell11.ba.best.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



    --
At 12:30 AM 10/1/98 -0700, Matthew James Gering wrote:
> Regulation includes much more than licensing and
> registration. Try hiring a couple employees, paying
> freelance individuals, setup office space, get yourself a
> company car and do your fed income taxes. Lightly regulated
> my ass. If they enforced every word of every code strongly
> and literally it would be nearly impossible to conduct
> business.

To the best of my observation, every single small business is
operating illegally. The situation differs from Russia only
in degree, not in kind

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     ijgrm6mPtp+ITpiypBMGLzXsIs6lHQrzIqUz4YVV
     43IJ5kE5GhIslIQSgCTgRQZID2XvL+MfwFf/uPGD8
-----------------------------------------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because 
of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this 
right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.


http://www.jim.com/jamesd/      James A. Donald




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "James A. Donald" 
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 13:59:46 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: <4.0.2.19981004113817.00ba5100@shell11.ba.best.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 07:43 AM 10/1/98 -0500, Jim Choate wrote:
> Personaly, 3 Mile Island in a un-regulated industry scares
> the hell out of me...and I support nuclear power. Look at
> the fiasco of Chernobyl in a control market.

Observe that the level of harm is approximately proportional
to the level of government regulation.

You presuppose that government officials will be more
virtuous than private individuals.  This is obviously
unlikely, since they have less reason to fear retribution
than private individuals.

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     KbuqgbXneCGpwCkzD74HaiFd/J5YwQM2KIGMZj5R
     4MnABV61Fum7fXVJ9y0SGutgtOy0PncqHqIN0Mlc9
-----------------------------------------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because 
of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this 
right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.


http://www.jim.com/jamesd/      James A. Donald




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "James A. Donald" 
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 14:41:35 +0800
To: "Brown, R Ken" 
Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F8476@MSX11002>
Message-ID: <199810041939.MAA12936@proxy3.ba.best.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



    --
At 05:28 AM 10/2/98 -0500, Brown, R Ken wrote:
> Nonsense. Most of those businesses became monopolies - or
> local monopolies - in the relatively unregulated 1880-1914
> period. 

Untrue:

> In some of them - like rail or oil in the USA - governments
> introduced regulation to *force* competition. 

In the case of the railways, the governments granted and
imposed monopolies.  In the case of oil, I assume you are
referring to "Standard Oil", there was no monopoly, and the
government regulation had little apparent effect. 

Also the Standard Oil issue was about refineries, not oil
wells or oil pipelines.  There was nothing to prevent any man
or his dog from setting up a refinery, and lots of them did.

> In UK over the last 30 years government  has  used a thing 
> called the "Monopolies and Mergers Commission" to
> investigate & (very occasionally) break up monopolies or
> cartels. 

This is like arguing that the existence of witch burning
proves the existence of witches.

> Recently government has forcibly broken up gas supply
> monopolies in this country.  

After first forcibly creating gas supply monopolies.

> What happens much more often is that one company becomes
> dominant and then uses money to undersell rivals.

Why don't you argue that they conduct sacrifices to Satan?

A big company has no monetary advantage over a small company.

Suppose Firm A controls 90% of the market and firm B controls
10% of the market.  Artificially low prices cost the big firm
nine times as much as the small firm.  Under capitalism, the
small company can duke it out on equal terms with the big
firm, and with great regularity, that is exactly what they
do.

> Garbage (what we call rubbish over here) collection  is
> different again. It's not at all a nutural monopoly and
> there is nothing stopping anyone offering to do it as a
> business. But it is a natural for social ownership,

You mistake the political adventures of your local elite for
universal laws.  In some parts of the world rubbish
collection is private.  In other parts of the world shoe
production is public.

In one of those nordic countries, I think Finland, the phone
system was never made a public enterprise or state regulated
monopoly, but most other things were.

There is no "natural monopoly" that is not somewhere a
private industry, and often it is a private industry in a
place that is otherwise quite socialist.  Public and private
ownership reflect the accidents of politics and history more
than they reflect the natural characteristics of the industry
in dispute.

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     UGkX+1b/yoE+3kHZyOhKZypmXTbwJRhUnQQmuuXZ
     4wYCfh8Ku6v+DiuN6q6haMUHpW8UcDrlkVLmN20j8
-----------------------------------------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because 
of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this 
right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.


http://www.jim.com/jamesd/      James A. Donald




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "James A. Donald" 
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 14:40:55 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: <199810041939.MAA13220@proxy3.ba.best.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 07:46 AM 10/2/98 -0500, Jim Choate wrote:
> The largest environment impact issue with a nuclear plant
> is hot water discharge (which is much larger than the
> exhaust from a coal plant) 

Since the operating temperature of the steam of a typical
nuclear reactor is only a little lower than the operating
temperature of the steam of a coal fired plant, the hot water
discharge is necessarily about the same for the same amount
of power generated.  For a nuclear plant to discharge much
more hot water than a coal plant, it would have to have much
lower thermal efficiency, which is not the case.

> and spent fuel storage because of the amount of time that
> is required to guarantee seals.

High level nuclear waste should be kept isolated for five
hundred years.  Since there are plenty of buildings, mostly
fortresses and monuments, that have survived for a good deal
longer than five hundred years, this does not seem terribly
difficult.

> The issue with storage is that it occurs on a time line
> that is best described as near-geologic. Periods of time
> that are orders of magnitude longer than human
> civilizations survive.

Bunkum:  The contaminant that lasts geological ages is
plutonium, and the arsenic dumped by a coal plant constitutes
far more lethal doses than the plutonium dumped by a nuclear
power plant.

> Consider the difference in volume of these two waste
> products...

So dilution is an acceptable solution for the poison in fly
ash, but it is a big problem for the plutonium in radioactive
waste?

If dilution is acceptable, let us dump our waste in the cold
salty current coming off the arctic icecap, as the russians
are doing.  It will be a thousand years before that stuff
comes back to the surface, and by that time only the
plutonium will be a problem.

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     hVZVbJPCiyR27Tdf+qFl+uj9Hc2KWiql5J1jnKJf
     4lXDcc7tAkwo7qEp0ZXbXv7XJqHc7d2LpmbS0UlzA
-----------------------------------------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because 
of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this 
right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.


http://www.jim.com/jamesd/      James A. Donald




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "James A. Donald" 
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 15:06:40 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: <4.0.2.19981004123048.00bc57b0@shell11.ba.best.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 08:31 AM 10/4/98 -0500, Jim Choate wrote:
> Malarky. Reputation is irrelevant, just examine the
> prisoners delima.

Yet strange to report, the banks have no problem with granting me many tens
of thousands of dollars of unsecured credit.

Perhaps your reputation is irrelevant.  Mine, however, is obviously relevant.

> Those who put reputation over action are setting themselves up for a classic
> abuse of trust.

My former employer Informix had probably a million dollars of small,
readily fencible stuff such as memory chips in the computers of the many
large buildings to which I and about six hundred other employees had access
at any hour of the day or night.  They appeared to me to have a policy not
employing males straight out of college, but rather hiring people who had
some established background but apart from that took no special
precautions.  In particular they did not have a night watchman wandering
about at random.  Their watchman sat at the door or patrolled the exterior,
oriented solely on external threats.
 
The continued solvency of Informix, rental car agencies, and so on and so
forth looks indicates it is possible to readily distinguish between those
who will defect in a game of prisoners dilemma, and those who will cooperate.

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     290NudELAtcM3PNN1SqalY8d8gN9gJ4SQcm4vqLY
     4U3vo+UqobR2nocMv+YQS7rqA47Y6ULXH+H1AAXVp
-----------------------------------------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because 
of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this 
right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.


http://www.jim.com/jamesd/      James A. Donald




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: pjm@spe.com
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 12:13:11 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A19284710@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
Message-ID: <1704-Sun04Oct1998124154+0200-pjm@spe.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Petro writes:
[ . . . ]
 > 	Aren't there certain departments/divisions in the governement that
 > only accept electronic files if they are in "word" format? (i.e. the DoD,
 > but I don't have a site for that, so I could be mistaken).
 > 
 > 	I know that I've never seen a Military Computer (desktop kind) that
 > wasn't a Wintel/Dos machjne (talking general purpose computer here, not a
 > targeting machine etc.)
 > 
 > 	Sell a couple hundered thousand units to the Feds, and that is a
 > considerable dent in the "level playing field" of the free market.

     Check the archives!  (I really enjoyed typing that.)  A few
months ago in a thread initiated by, I believe, Dr. Hun, I suggested
that the best way for the government to break the alleged Microsoft
monopoly would be to stop buying their products.

     Given that free alternatives are available, our tax dollars
shouldn't be wasted on expensive software.  The fact that the free
software is technically superior is icing on the cake.

Regards,

pjm




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "James A. Donald" 
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 15:06:34 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: <4.0.2.19981004123601.00bd4d00@shell11.ba.best.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> > No monopoly has ever happened except by regulation

At 08:34 AM 10/4/98 -0500, Jim Choate wrote:
> Microsoft got to where it is because of a lack of
> regulation, 

Microsoft is not a monopoly.  In servers, where much of their
income comes from, Linux is eating their lunch, and the
desktop is under continual threat.  For a monopoly to be a
monopoly, you not only have to have most of the market, you
have to have some means of excluding others, which Microsoft
manifestly does not.

> the abuses of the aircraft industry  in the 1940-50's that
> led to regulation at the end of the 50's and 60's. The
> steel industry in the north east in the early 1900's. The
> food packing and garment industries of the north east and
> pacific coast in the 20's through the 50's. The railroad
> industry in the mid-1800's.

You are totally deluded.  None of these are examples of
monopoly, except for the railroad industry where government
intervention was for the purpose of creating monopoly, not
preventing it.

The garment and food packing industries were and are a huge
network of innumerable tiny shops, and the aircraft industry
had several big companies in fierce competition. 

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     tGwDPXVCokaVVyVk0h0Eg2GWnP+PvoDN/FVnNlrj
     4rpwXX94bGxwVRYaTkgfjolUcS6JYdmdeC7V3gPK3
-----------------------------------------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because 
of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this 
right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.


http://www.jim.com/jamesd/      James A. Donald




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "James A. Donald" 
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 15:06:33 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: <4.0.2.19981004124328.00a7a100@shell11.ba.best.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> > In america the various mafias get plently of competition, 
> > mostly by means short of actual warfare.  Coke is a free 
> > market except for police intervention, and the local
> > church is most certainly not a monopoly.

At 09:05 AM 10/4/98 -0500, Jim Choate wrote:
> Coke is a free-market? That's a laugh. I suggest you study
> the history of the Crips and related gangs, or the
> international Coke distributors.

Except for police intervention, anyone is free to buy coke
from dealers affiliated with the Crips, affiliated with the
Bloods, or affiliated with any one of several smaller
providers of such services.

Generally competition between these groups mostly resembles
the competition between Visa and Mastercard with shoot outs
being the exception rather than the rule.  Shootouts are bad
for business. 

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     Z3KdZnJI+f5vF118VFL0MXvnc/vax1L5aOSwtuLC
     4wEeXVOQ8uu5x6lqxMjR/dzZelSR7LUosYe37IJQM
-----------------------------------------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because 
of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this 
right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.


http://www.jim.com/jamesd/      James A. Donald




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "James A. Donald" "James A. Donald" 
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 15:06:48 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: <4.0.2.19981004124919.00bd6db0@shell11.ba.best.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> > the local church is most certainly not a monopoly.

At 09:08 AM 10/4/98 -0500, Jim Choate wrote:
> Your local church is a member of a larger international 
> collective that does in fact use coercion in one form or
> another.

Send me some of whatever you are smoking.

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     s9ZGIU5475XTNx5ONJvcatdWP8o+0shicf5WCTZR
     4vZx1tKCacPwbutEfIcGHgS3Wh0Jg79kjdKlVk5YB
-----------------------------------------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because 
of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this 
right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.


http://www.jim.com/jamesd/      James A. Donald




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 15:16:37 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A193A7A10@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




> Microsoft got to where it is because of a lack of regulation

Microsoft is not a monopoly by any stretch of the imagination.

> The railroad industry in the mid-1800's.

Railroads were highly competitive in the East. The railroad monopolies
in the West were created by exclusive government land grants.

	Matt




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 16:09:19 +0800
To: Clifford Heath 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981004135242.00882410@m7.sprynet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 03:36 PM 10/2/98 +1000, Clifford Heath wrote:
>We have been asked by a customer if we have any tests that demonstrate 
>the randomness of the SSLeay random number generator (augmented by some
>sound-card random number seeding that we wrote).
>
>I'd like to find some standard implementation for testing randomness, but 
>Schneier offers no help (other than a reference to Knuth Vol 2), and I
>don't know where else to turn.
>
>I realise that cryptographic randomness requires unpredictability, and
>this quality depends upon closed-world assumptions about unknown individuals'
>predictive powers, but we have to live with that.

* Marsaglia's DIEHARD suite, also see DIEHARDC
* I posted code for Maurer's Universal statistical test a week or so
ago; I find this discriminates between a cipher output and real noise...
* Find the RAND corp paper on random numbers 
* See FIPS 140










  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 16:09:42 +0800
To: Mok-Kong Shen 
Subject: Re: Randomness testing
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981004135551.00888630@m7.sprynet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 11:13 AM 10/2/98 +0100, Mok-Kong Shen wrote:
>Clifford Heath wrote:
>> 
>I suggest that you do at least Maurer's test which is described
>in A. J. Menezes et al. Handbook of Applied Cryptography. The
>test is not difficult to code. You could also look at my code in
>http://www.stud.uni-muenchen.de/~mok-kong.shen/#paper1 in Fortran.
>
>M. K. Shen
>



/*
UELI.c

1 Oct 98

This implements Ueli M Maurer's
"Universal Statistical Test for Random Bit Generators"
using L=16

Accepts a filename on the command line;
writes its results, with other info, to stdout.

Handles input file exhaustion gracefully.

Ref: J. Cryptology v 5 no 2, 1992 pp 89-105
also on the web somewhere, which is where I found it.

-David Honig
honig@sprynet.com


Built with Wedit 2.3, lcc-win32
http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~lcc-win32


26 Sept CP Release
Version Notes:

	This version does L=16.  It evolved from an L=8 prototype
	which I ported from the Pascal in the above reference.

	I made the memory usage reasonable
	by replacing Maurer's "block" array
	with the 'streaming' fgetc() call.


Usage:
	UELI filename
	outputs to stdout

*/

#define L 16		// bits per block
#define V (1<
#include 


int main( int argc, char **argv )
{
FILE *fptr;
int i;
int b, c;
int table[V];
float sum=0.0;
int run;

// Human Interface
printf("UELI 26 Sep 98\nL=%d %d %d \n", L, V, MAXSAMP);
if (argc <2)
	{printf("Usage: UELI filename\n"); exit(-1); }
else
	printf("Measuring file %s\n", argv[1]);

// FILE IO
fptr=fopen(argv[1],"rb");
if (fptr == NULL) {printf("Can't find %s\n", argv[1]); exit(-1); }

// INIT
for (i=0; i
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 16:11:47 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981004141215.0088c9f0@m7.sprynet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 12:25 PM 10/3/98 -0500, Jim Choate wrote:
>Hello,
>
>I was in Bookstop a while ago and noticed two books that could be of
>potential interest.

Let me recommend: "Eat the Rich" by PJ O'rourke.  Humorous introduction
to meaning of money, generation of wealth, laissez-fair, and his
experiences in
Cuba, Sweden, Albania, Tanzania learning about these.

An easy read, possibly of interest for neophytes interested in why
we have no ecash (or quantized bananas).  (Neither are answered).










  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "James A. Donald" 
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 16:56:09 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: <199810042156.OAA18581@proxy3.ba.best.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>> Microsoft is not a monopoly.  [...]  Linux is eating their
>> lunch,

At 03:24 PM 10/4/98 -0500, Jim Choate wrote:
> It is certainly growing but the fact is that by a factor of
> orders of magnitude commercial Unix'es own that market.
> When it comes to mission critical servers Solaris, HP, &
> AIX own the market still.

The number one server is not Microsoft, and is not
commercial.

And if it was commercial, Microsoft would still be being
eaten alive in the server market.  They still have their
lunch in the end user market, but the wolves are eyeing that
also.

> In the aircraft industry for example, while the number of
> riders was growing very quickly there was a concommitent
> increase in end-user ticket prices that was way out of line
> with the increased cost of business operations as well as
> [...]

When you make up facts it is customary to invent names,
places, and dates in order to give the appearance of
verisimilitude.

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     37RmYMVajW0Tw1f5iy1gJUreAXMZoIsD71kbTgi2
     4A/lXSKOHk7Ru9/A6+FhVDSgj9sBgAyDS57+IF402

-----------------------------------------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because 
of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this 
right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.


http://www.jim.com/jamesd/      James A. Donald




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "James A. Donald" 
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 16:57:31 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: <199810042156.OAA18583@proxy3.ba.best.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate claims that free markets are routinely overrun by
monopolies.  I say this is nonsense.

At 03:51 PM 10/4/98 -0500, Jim Choate wrote:
> But I'd certaily entertain any evidence you may want to 
> present to your case.

How can anyone present evidence when except for Microsoft you
have not named a single company that alleged became a
monopoly, and you have been vague about the markets that
these companies allegedly monopolized, and the periods during
which these markets were monpolized.

It is as if you were claiming that giant monsters frequently
terrorized US cities.  Unless you make a specific allegation,
no refutation is possible or necessary.

For example if you were to claim that King Kong demolished
the empire state building, then someone could point out that
the empire state building still stands.

A simple explanation for your inability to name any specific
giant monsters, or any particular places and times where
these giant monsters were rampaging, is that these giant
monsters do not exist, and never have existed.

> Examples please where a small firm dukes it out (sic) on
> equal terms with a larger one...

MacDonalds vs Burger King.  Hertz vs Avis.  Mastercard vs
Visa.

And of course, the biggest mismatch of them all 

Microsoft vs Linux.

> > You mistake the political adventures of your local elite
> > for universal laws.

> What country produces shoes as a function of government
> agency and prevents private shoe production? 
>
> I must admit I nearly hurt myself laughing at this one.

Holland used to do this on the grounds that shoes were a
vital necessity, and if the market was left to private
enterprise some people would go shoeless.

> A 'natural' monoploy, to my mind, is a company that
> operates in an industry that can be saturated. By
> saturation I mean that the demand of the market can be met
> by a small number (approaching 1 if left unregulated over
> time, usualy by by-outs or business experation) of
> manufacturers.

There is no empirical evidence that any natural monopolies
exist.

> The VCR industry is a great example of a 'natural'
> monopoly. Only a few years ago *every* VCR mechanism on the
> planet was made by one of 5 companies and with the
> cessation of Curtis-Williams, not one of them was a US
> company. 

This does not make the VCR business a monopoly.  It would
only be a monopoly if the existing players were free to raise
prices.  Manifestly the market for the mechanism of the VCR
has become a commodity market, in which profit margins are
extremely low.

The same is true of the aluminium market, where you have all
aluminium smelted by a single provider.  There is nothing to
stop anyone else from going into the business, but because
the profit margins are razor thin, nobody bothers.  Although
there is only a single company, it is not a monopoly because
if they expanded their very thin proft margins by the
slightest degree, other people would promptly eat their
lunch. 

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     oa82+HWPHe6y441fIArVLbuu3EwwEh2ZOS4Pi3jk
     4Lscjd2dJEP8tQjtxX0+5pcrFhvS7G3mJz67hoycC
-----------------------------------------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because 
of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this 
right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.


http://www.jim.com/jamesd/      James A. Donald




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 15:06:15 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810042010.PAA32089@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 11:37:23 -0700
> From: "James A. Donald" 
> Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)

> At 12:30 AM 10/1/98 -0700, Matthew James Gering wrote:
> > Regulation includes much more than licensing and
> > registration. Try hiring a couple employees, paying
> > freelance individuals, setup office space, get yourself a
> > company car and do your fed income taxes. Lightly regulated
> > my ass. If they enforced every word of every code strongly
> > and literally it would be nearly impossible to conduct
> > business.
> 
> To the best of my observation, every single small business is
> operating illegally. The situation differs from Russia only
> in degree, not in kind

Prove it. List he specific rules, regulations, etc. that you believe every
small business is breaking....

Put up or shut up.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 15:08:37 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810042013.PAA32334@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 12:50:50 -0700
> From: "James A. Donald" 
> Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)

> At 09:08 AM 10/4/98 -0500, Jim Choate wrote:
> > Your local church is a member of a larger international=20
> > collective that does in fact use coercion in one form or
> > another.
> 
> Send me some of whatever you are smoking.

That's the best you can come up with?

Sheesh.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 15:09:57 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810042014.PAA32418@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 12:48:50 -0700
> From: "James A. Donald" 
> Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)

> Except for police intervention, anyone is free to buy coke
> from dealers affiliated with the Crips, affiliated with the
> Bloods, or affiliated with any one of several smaller
> providers of such services.

Really? I dare you to wear the colors of a Crip and then sell in the Bloods
neighborhood.

> Generally competition between these groups mostly resembles
> the competition between Visa and Mastercard with shoot outs
> being the exception rather than the rule.  Shootouts are bad
> for business.=20

Somebody should tell them this then since they certainly don't operate that
way in the real world.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Richard Stallman 
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 16:25:06 +0800
To: nobody@replay.com
Subject: No Subject
In-Reply-To: <199810010100.DAA26700@replay.com>
Message-ID: <199810042123.PAA06233@wijiji.santafe.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



    The GNU GPL discourages the sale of proprietary software by prohibiting
    anything using code covered by the license from being proprietary, and
    that's right.

    The proposed Cypherpunks license discourages the distribution of software
    with key recovery (= government back doors) by prohibiting anything using
    code covered by the license from having key recovery, and that's wrong.

Yes, exactly.  To uphold freedom for all users is right; to impose
your specific preferences on users who want to do something else is
wrong, because it takes away their freedom.

I don't like back doors, but I support users' freedom to install back
doors, for the same reason I support your freedom of speech even when
you say things I don't like.  The crucial thing is that each user
should be free to choose for perself; we must avoid giving a person,
company or government the power to choose for others.

The GNU GPL insists that everyone have the freedom to (1) see what is
inside the software they use, and (2) change it if they don't like it.

When everyone has this freedom, they can reject back doors, if they
want to.  If an otherwise-useful program has a back door, people can
tell.  (Most users would not have the training to recognize one, but
someone will spot it, and will warn the public.)  They can also remove
the back door "feature", and distribute a modified version which has
the same useful features but no back door.

If instead you make a requirement of "no government back doors", but
you permit proprietary versions whose source code is secret, what will
be the result?  If the person who makes a proprietary version obeys
your terms, it will have no government back door, but it might contain
something else bad, and no one could tell, including you.

What if someone makes a proprietary version and adds a back door?
That would violate your terms, but would you know?  Let's suppose you
do know that your code was used, either because person says so or
because you figure it out.  That does not enable you to tell that the
back door was added.  Thus, as a practical matter, you cannot enforce
this requirement the way you can enforce the GNU GPL.  (Once you know
your code was used, a violation of the GPL is blatantly obvious.)

Looking at the issue in a broader context, companies have the
resources to avoid using your code.  No matter how useful your package
may be, they can write other code to do the same job.

If you convince the users that government back doors are a bad thing,
but they think that proprietary (non-free) programs are ok, they will
always have to take it on trust that a given proprietary software
product has no back doors.  To be sure, if the product includes your
code, any back door would violate your terms (if only you knew about
it); but users will see no reason to insist on a product that uses
your code.  They may just as well choose a product that uses some
other implementation of the same feature, and that alternative
implementation may not have any prohibition on adding a back door.

If instead we convince the users that non-free software is a bad
thing, or even only that non-free crypto software is a bad thing, that
does the job much more thoroughly.  They may still choose a product
that uses some other implementation instead of your code, but if that
product is free software, they will be able to check its source for
back doors just the same.

The best way for the users to avoid *any* particular hidden misfeature
in software is to insist on using only free software.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Richard Stallman 
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 16:24:47 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code)
In-Reply-To: <199809281845.TAA18662@server.eternity.org>
Message-ID: <199810042124.PAA06245@wijiji.santafe.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



A couple of people responded to this

    It isn't surprising that people who want to write non-free software
    are disappointed that the GNU project won't help them.  What is
    amazing is that they feel this is unfair.

by expressing doubt that anyone really thinks so.
I think the person who wrote this text

    I used to be quite pro-GNU until I tried this exercise (writing
    commercial crypto software for software companies) and ended up
    re-writing huge tracts of stuff just to remove the GNU license virus.

made that feeling quite clear through his use of name-calling.  He did
not content himself with saying, "I had to rewrite huge tracts of
stuff because its authors did not give permission to use it in a
proprietary program," because that straightforward and accurate
description would have shown why his resentment was unjustified.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Richard Stallman 
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 16:24:33 +0800
To: ben@algroup.co.uk
Subject: Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code)
In-Reply-To: <199809281845.TAA18662@server.eternity.org>
Message-ID: <199810042124.PAA06247@wijiji.santafe.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



    d) As far as I can work out, someone who wants to free part of a
    product, but not all of it, can't practically do so under GPL.

I'm not really sure what that means, but I have a feeling that there
is a misunderstanding at the root of it.  Could you describe the scenario
more clearly, so I could tell for certain?




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 15:23:13 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810042024.PAA32554@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 12:42:58 -0700
> From: "James A. Donald" 
> Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)

> Microsoft is not a monopoly.  In servers, where much of their
> income comes from,

Malarky, MS makes the vast majority of their money off end-user and single
machine licenses. Look at their quarterly or yearly earning statements.

> Linux is eating their lunch,

It is certainly growing but the fact is that by a factor of orders of
magnitude commercial Unix'es own that market. When it comes to mission
critical servers Solaris, HP, & AIX own the market still.

> and the
> desktop is under continual threat.  For a monopoly to be a
> monopoly, you not only have to have most of the market, you
> have to have some means of excluding others, which Microsoft
> manifestly does not.

Not from a lack of trying on their part and the fact that federal regulators
stepped in before it became totaly regulated.

> You are totally deluded.  None of these are examples of
> monopoly,

Certainly they were. Each and every example listed (and many more) were
industries which were controlled by a small number of companies whose share
in the total market was squeezing out competition. The results would have
been a growing number of buyouts and thinning of competition to the point
that only one or two companies would have survived.

 except for the railroad industry where government
> intervention was for the purpose of creating monopoly, not
> preventing it.

In the aircraft industry for example, while the number of riders was growing
very quickly there was a concommitent increase in end-user ticket prices
that was way out of line with the increased cost of business operations as
well as a decrease in the overall safety of the industry which was
exemplified by a increase in the number of air crashes and aircraft who
couldn't pass maintenance inspections yet continued to fly.
 
> The garment and food packing industries were and are a huge
> network of innumerable tiny shops,

All working for about 5 or 6 companies who actlualy marketed and distributed
the items. Just get a Dallas Texas phone book for that period (it's a
distribution hub for the clothing/garment industry even today).

> and the aircraft industry
> had several big companies in fierce competition.=20

Yep, in the mid-50's there were like 5 national/international aircraft
operators and the number of commercial avaition manufacturers selling to the
national and international carrier market was like 3. There were smaller
companies like Ryan for example but they were owned by the larger companies
and eventualy merged into the regular operations.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 15:24:36 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810042028.PAA32626@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: Matthew James Gering 
> Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
> Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 13:14:16 -0700 

> > Microsoft got to where it is because of a lack of regulation
> 
> Microsoft is not a monopoly by any stretch of the imagination.

They own 90% of the desktops in this country, that's a monopoly or a company
a hair-breadth's away.

> > The railroad industry in the mid-1800's.
> 
> Railroads were highly competitive in the East. The railroad monopolies
> in the West were created by exclusive government land grants.

Not true until after the 1890's. Prior to that the railroads in the US were
owned by a total of like 5 people.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 15:29:20 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810042032.PAA32689@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 12:35:49 -0700
> From: "James A. Donald" 
> Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)

> > Malarky. Reputation is irrelevant, just examine the
> > prisoners delima.
> 
> Yet strange to report, the banks have no problem with granting me many tens
> of thousands of dollars of unsecured credit.

Which is exactly my point, default on a single one of those and watch what
happens.

> Perhaps your reputation is irrelevant.  Mine, however, is obviously=
>  relevant.

Only to you. What is important is the *fact* that you continue paying the
bills. Default and all the *desire* in the world won't bring back those
loans.

> The continued solvency of Informix, rental car agencies, and so on and so
> forth looks indicates it is possible to readily distinguish between those
> who will defect in a game of prisoners dilemma, and those who will=
>  cooperate.

That's so funny. Please produce the amount Informix lost by employee theft
last year for example. If it's zero then you may have a point. I'll bet you
it wasn't and isn't.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 15:48:11 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810042051.PAA32751@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 12:11:04 -0700
> From: "James A. Donald" 
> Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)

> At 05:28 AM 10/2/98 -0500, Brown, R Ken wrote:
> > Nonsense. Most of those businesses became monopolies - or
> > local monopolies - in the relatively unregulated 1880-1914
> > period.=20
> 
> Untrue:

Actualy it is. But I'd certaily entertain any evidence you may want to
present to your case...other than just saying it over and over.

> > In some of them - like rail or oil in the USA - governments
> > introduced regulation to *force* competition.=20
> 
> In the case of the railways, the governments granted and
> imposed monopolies.

Only after the early 1890's when the situation got so bad they had to do
something. Prior to that there was no federal intervention in railroad
operations per se (I say that because the US government used the railroads
at a very hefty discount).

>  In the case of oil, I assume you are
> referring to "Standard Oil", there was no monopoly, and the
> government regulation had little apparent effect.=20

You assume wrong. I am talking of the entire oil industry as a whole.

> Also the Standard Oil issue was about refineries, not oil
> wells or oil pipelines.  There was nothing to prevent any man
> or his dog from setting up a refinery, and lots of them did.

The issue in the oil industry isn't the refineries or pipelines or any of
that other stuff. It's mineral rights. And every drop of mineral rights in
this country is owned by oil companies or the US government as a result of
the conflicts that took place from the late 1800's to the early 1900's.

> > Recently government has forcibly broken up gas supply
> > monopolies in this country. =20
> 
> After first forcibly creating gas supply monopolies.

Actualy the local and state regulators did that back in the late 50's and
early 60's the federals had no hand in it. The same happend prior to the TVA
projects of the late 20's and 30's with the electric production industry.

> > What happens much more often is that one company becomes
> > dominant and then uses money to undersell rivals.
> 
> Why don't you argue that they conduct sacrifices to Satan?

Because then he would be doing what you like to do, change the subject and
claim it's the same thing.

> A big company has no monetary advantage over a small company.

You know nothing of how large businesses work over small ones then.

> Suppose Firm A controls 90% of the market and firm B controls
> 10% of the market.  Artificially low prices cost the big firm
> nine times as much as the small firm.

Bullshit math. The interactions are nowhere near as simple as you state.
The big company has the resources to outlast the smaller company in any
industry that can monopolize (an issue you seem to miss, not all industries
can monopolize) and if its' smart will buy the smaller company at some
point (unless prevented) as the smaller companies becomes resource starved.

>  Under capitalism, the
> small company can duke it out on equal terms with the big
> firm, and with great regularity, that is exactly what they
> do.

Examples please where a small firm dukes it out (sic) on equal terms with a
larger one...

 > Garbage (what we call rubbish over here) collection  is
> > different again. It's not at all a nutural monopoly and
> > there is nothing stopping anyone offering to do it as a
> > business. But it is a natural for social ownership,
> 
> You mistake the political adventures of your local elite for
> universal laws.  In some parts of the world rubbish
> collection is private. 

In just about everyplace in the US the company doing the trash collection
and dumping is private, especialy in the bigger cities. They may be working
under contract for the city but the company is privately held. My suspicion
is that most places on the planet, excluding control markets like Cuba, use
private companies under contract for this.

> In other parts of the world shoe
> production is public.

What country produces shoes as a function of government agency and prevents
private shoe production?

I must admit I nearly hurt myself laughing at this one.

> In one of those nordic countries, I think Finland, the phone
> system was never made a public enterprise or state regulated
> monopoly, but most other things were.

Then how does it operate? Who owns the switches and wires? Either it's a
public utility or it's some sort of private enterprise (though it may be
under contract to the government).

> There is no "natural monopoly" that is not somewhere a

A 'natural' monoploy, to my mind, is a company that operates in an industry
that can be saturated. By saturation I mean that the demand of the market
can be met by a small number (approaching 1 if left unregulated over time,
usualy by by-outs or business experation) of manufacturers.

The VCR industry is a great example of a 'natural' monopoly. Only a few years
ago *every* VCR mechanism on the planet was made by one of 5 companies and
with the cessation of Curtis-Williams, not one of them was a US company. It
is not possible to buy a VCR designed and made in the US today because of
this market monopolization. It is also impossible to start such a company
because the costs of market entry are too enormous. There is *no* government
regulation of the VCR industry outside of EOE issues to this day.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 15:57:07 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!... (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810042101.QAA00049@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 11:40:34 -0700
> From: "James A. Donald" 
> Subject: Re: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!...

> Observe that the level of harm is approximately proportional
> to the level of government regulation.

Please be so kind as to demonstrate by example why you believe that by
de-regulating the food industry, for example, we would recieve better
quality foodstuffs? Without regulation why would these companies quit mixing
their products and making better systems of quality control so that the
cases of E. Coli for example would decrease? Why is it that the number of
deaths in this country from salmonella and related food diseases have
*decreased* since the industry was regulated in the early 1920's when the
problem (people getting sick or dying from adulterated foodstuffs) was
at its peak?

Just look at the current issues related to non-pasteurized fruit juice
prodcts for a current example of the consequences of free-market economics
lack of regulation and by extension responsibility and the consequences
thereof.

> You presuppose that government officials will be more
> virtuous than private individuals.  This is obviously
> unlikely, since they have less reason to fear retribution
> than private individuals.

It's the private companies fearing retribution from the government, not the
end user. Your reasoning is faulty.

In an industry that is completely unregulated by anyone other than the
consumer and the producer the consumer will be taken advantage of. The
reason is that there is no real-world market force that will force
compliance. Now some are going to scream that the consumer will, the problem
is that the consumer is denied the information about/from the producer they
require in order to make the reasoned judgement.

The bottem line as to why free-market economies don't work is that it isn't
in the producers best interest to have a educated consumer. They might buy
somebody elses product or start their own company. Both of those are bad for
profits.

Free-market mavens forget that producers are just as greedy and corrupt as
everyone else, there is no fair competition in an unregulated market given
the pshychological make up of human beings.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 17:13:33 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A1928471D@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 2:37 PM -0400 on 10/4/98, James A. Donald wrote:

> To the best of my observation, every single small business is
> operating illegally.

Amen. Literally.

That is, when the church ruled our lives, it was impossible not to be
sinning for some reason.

These days, the state rules our lives, and we're all breaking the law.

Most criminologists will tell that the more corrupt the jurisdiction, the
harder it is to be in compliance with the law. That way, it's easier for
the state's functionaries to shake you down.

Ayn Rand has a great quote about this, which I have long forgotten, but my
favorite bit of impromptu wisdom on the subject is from Vinnie Moscaritolo,
who blurted out one night, on a long climb up Page Mill road, "'If we could
just pass a few more laws', we could all be criminals!"


Also, Voltaire was famous for saying, in French of course :-), 'death to la
infame' (le? I took latin instead, and was bad at it, anyway.). By la
infame, "the infamous thing", he meant the church, of course. While it
probably sounds a little haughtier than "smash the state", (or, as I am
wont say, *surfact* the state ;-)), Voltaire's saying, in the original,
might make a nice slogan to, um, resurrect, if someone wants to dust off
their college french and do the honors...

Odd thing for a man to say who was buried in the floor of a church anyway.
It'd be like putting Mr. Young in Arlington, or something. ;-).

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: interception 
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 12:32:40 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: http://jya.com/ECHELON-GO.htm
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19981004172611.006f0e5c@mail.ii-mel.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



From: interception 
Subject: http://jya.com/ECHELON-GO.htm

french centers of electronic interceptions are in: 

1 - Agde
2 - Rohrbach-les-Bitch 
3 - Domme 
4 - Mützig, 
5 - Alluets-Feucherolles
6 - Celar (Army) (fax, scramble,...): 950 people in Rennes
7 - Security Squad and electronic war (4 squads) in Metz
8 - Plateau d'Albion: 150 people
9 - Boat: Cargo le Bercy
10- Bouar (Centrafrican Républic)
11- Solenzara (Corse)
12- St-Barthélemy (Guadeloupe)
13- Réunion
14- Mayotte, Djibouti
15- Kourou Spatial Base (Guyane)
16- United Arab Emirates
17- New Caledonia

In spite of Echelon http://www.ii-mel.com/interception/echelongb.htm
french electronic interception are practiced in the USA




Masson
http://www.ii-mel.com/interception




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jan Dobrucki 
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 13:42:09 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Please include me
In-Reply-To: <80e9319b.3616faed@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3617CF97.5FB84B43@kki.net.pl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Well, what a neat way to get on this list, just ask someone to do it
for you... well it's WRONG. Go to

ftp://ftp.csua.berkeley.edu/pub/cypherpunks/Home.html

and get the information you need from there....
You're lucky, I was in a good mood today... you got help... but there
are people out there who just hate your guts...
So learn mr. aol user and stop asking this stupid question. There are
FAQ's to help such people as yourself.
Regards,
Jan Dobrucki

KCzzzzz@aol.com wrote:

> Include me on your mailing list
>
> --
> Wyslano za posrednictwem bezplatnego serwera KKI
> Krakowski Komercyjny Internet - http://www.kki.net.pl
>
> To jest miejsce na reklame Twojej firmy!


--
Wyslano za posrednictwem bezplatnego serwera KKI
Krakowski Komercyjny Internet - http://www.kki.net.pl

To jest miejsce na reklame Twojej firmy!




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 20:59:58 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code) (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810050201.VAA01105@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 01:04:20 +0100
> From: Adam Back 
> Subject: Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code)

> If your aim is to maximise crypto deployment, use BSD or some other
> relatively free distribution license other than GNU, so that we can
> more rapidly write and deploy crypto software to undermine the power
> of the state.

With the proviso that the original author looses all access to profits from
that code, effectively doing the R&D for untold numbers of companies without
compensation or even recognition (they can claim it's all theirs at that
point because they don't have to release the source).


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Alex Alten 
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 22:48:50 +0800
To: ben@algroup.co.uk
Subject: Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code)
In-Reply-To: <36134ACF.A09E1263@algroup.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981004210155.00aadd60@mail>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Richard and others,

Please stop.  This thread does not belong on the 
coderpunks mailing list.  If you want to argue
about BXA vs GPL please take it elsewhere.

- Alex

--

Alex Alten

Alten@Home.Com
Alten@TriStrata.Com

P.O. Box 11406
Pleasanton, CA  94588  USA
(925) 417-0159




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Blanc" 
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 23:04:24 +0800
To: "'Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer'" 
Subject: RE: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!... (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199810042101.QAA00049@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <000501bdf016$5b28f700$7e8195cf@blanc>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>From Jim Choate:

: The bottem line as to why free-market economies don't work is that it isn't
: in the producers best interest to have a educated consumer.  They might buy
: somebody elses product or start their own company. Both of those are bad for
: profits.
:
: Free-market mavens forget that producers are just as greedy and corrupt as
: everyone else, there is no fair competition in an unregulated market given
: the pshychological make up of human beings.
........................................................................................


Free market economices don't "work", simply because they are run by humans, who regularly suffer
psychological breakdowns, envy, and mistakes of judgement, not to mention disreputable marketing
departments.   Regulated economies, however, are run by government drones, and are therefore perfect
vehicles which, with unfailing success, make all of their captive customers happy.

Everyone knows this, as we witness the apparent success of all those regulated economies overseas
which outshine the U.S. by three (maybe four) orders of magnitude.  No one over there envies the
U.S. productivity and standard of living, and they never are moved to leave and come live over here,
to give up the benefits which extreme regulation confers upon them, in place of the (admittedly
mixed) free-market fiasco which operates over here, where all things are uncertain and frighteningly
unpredictable.

In fact, many people become so disgusted with the monopolies and disfunctional liberty which exists
here, that they regularly expatriate to go live in places like Sweden, Germany, even Canada, where
they have the peace of mind and assurance that State coercion will provide for their every need  -
in a most efficient, timely, prompt, and user-friendly manner.

They never have to worry about who has more or less, who is better or worse, or who knows better
than anyone what is best for everyone.  It's all been pre-established and exists incontrovertibly in
their national consumer database.

    ..
Blanc




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 16:18:40 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199810042112.XAA11806@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 12:59 PM 10/3/98 -0400, Michael Motyka wrote:
>> There is a desert which is 1000 miles across. There is a camel who can
carry
>> 1000 bananas maximum. The camel eats 1 banana per mile travelled. The camel
>> has a total of 3000 bananas to begin with. What is the maximum number of
>> bananas that the camel can get across to the other side uneaten?
>
>My camels don't understand/can't eat fractional bananas.

Why are bananas quantized in the presense of camels?  Is this
a quantum-computing thing?









  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 23:43:14 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!... (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810050447.XAA01383@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: "Blanc" 
> Subject: RE: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!... (fwd)
> Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 21:09:55 -0700

> Free market economices don't "work", simply because they are run by humans,
 who regularly suffer
> psychological breakdowns, envy, and mistakes of judgement, not to mention
 disreputable marketing
> departments.   Regulated economies, however, are run by government drones,
 and are therefore perfect
> vehicles which, with unfailing success, make all of their captive customers
 happy.
> 

Not so, but I appreciate the sense of irony in your comment.

> Everyone knows this, as we witness the apparent success of all those
 regulated economies overseas
> which outshine the U.S. by three (maybe four) orders of magnitude.  No one
 over there envies the
> U.S. productivity and standard of living, and they never are moved to leave
 and come live over here,
> to give up the benefits which extreme regulation confers upon them, in
 place of the (admittedly
> mixed) free-market fiasco which operates over here, where all things are
 uncertain and frighteningly
> unpredictable.

Simply because people see a better place does not imply it is the *best*
place.

Selecting the lesser of two evils does not magicaly make one a goodness.
It's still an evil.

> In fact, many people become so disgusted with the monopolies and
 disfunctional liberty which exists
> here, that they regularly expatriate to go live in places like Sweden,
 Germany, even Canada, where
> they have the peace of mind and assurance that State coercion will provide
 for their every need  -
> in a most efficient, timely, prompt, and user-friendly manner.
 
> They never have to worry about who has more or less, who is better or worse,
 or who knows better
> than anyone what is best for everyone.  It's all been pre-established and
 exists incontrovertibly in
> their national consumer database.

It would be nice if  you said something other than "I disagree". It would
really be nice if you cold describe specific examples and hypothesis, but
that obviously is asking too much.

Ah well.

    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 23:48:56 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Another question about free-markets...
Message-ID: <199810050453.XAA01444@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Milton Friedman won the Nobel price in 1976 in economics. One of the
questions he asked was:

Do corporate executives, provided they stay within the law, have
responsibilities in their business activities other than to make as much
money for their stockholders as possible?

His answer was 'no', they have no responsibility outside of those two
considerations (ie the law, stockholders expectations of profit).

Now in a free-market, by definition, there is no law. What then is the
responsibility of businesses other than the pure unadulterated pursuit of
profit? If this includes lying, denying consumers information, etc. what
harm is done, they have fulfilled their responsibility to their shareholders
(potentialy quite lucratively) and broken no law. Within this environment it
follows that a primary strategy for such executives is the elimination of
*all* competition. And since there is no law other than the measure of profit
all can be justified.

    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 19:16:20 +0800
To: rms@gnu.org
Subject: Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code)
In-Reply-To: <199810042124.PAA06245@wijiji.santafe.edu>
Message-ID: <199810050004.BAA00788@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Richard Stallman writes:
> A couple of people responded to this
> 
>     It isn't surprising that people who want to write non-free software
>     are disappointed that the GNU project won't help them.  What is
>     amazing is that they feel this is unfair.
> 
> by expressing doubt that anyone really thinks so.

Well I don't think it's unfair, and it's my post you quoted as an
example!  Anyone who writes something is clearly free to put anything
they like in their licenses.  This was not the point being made.

As there seems to be some confusion, let me try to summarise why
several people have said they prefer BSD license (or indeed LGPL) to
GNU GPL _in the particular case of crypto code_:

Cypherpunks are interested to deploy crypto code with out backdoors
(`cypherpunks write code' and all that).  Consider for a moment that
this is your primary aim.

It is useful to build upon on other cypherpunks code.  (Having to code
everything from scratch is going to take you a long time..., let's see
we'll start with re-writing a bignum library from scratch).

You would like your code to be widely deployed, and some companies are
good at distributing code.  If you could get them to include crypto in
their applications that would be a lot of crypto out there.

So when someone writes crypto code form this perspective the BSD
license better achieves their aim.  This is not an insult to the FSF's
aims.  The BSD license (for example) is in some ways more free than
the GNU license: it allows free distribution, but is less strict in
propagating this to derived works.  This lesser strictness is useful
for crypto deployment because it allows commercial derivative works
(what you have termed proprietary) software.  Cypherpunks want to
encourage these also, though they would prefer that source be
available so that people can check for quality, correctness, and for
backdoors.


The comments on having to re-write GNU code which several people made
(in the context of crypto software) are not saying that it is "unfair
that GNU contributers don't do free work for the cypherpunk cause",
what it is saying is this:

If your aim is to maximise crypto deployment, use BSD or some other
relatively free distribution license other than GNU, so that we can
more rapidly write and deploy crypto software to undermine the power
of the state.

Adam




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 04:16:03 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: US Secret Service checking laptops at airports
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Has anyone else had this happen to them?

I'd love to have two independent corroborations of this, instead of hearing
it third-hand...

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga

--- begin forwarded text


From: "Sidney Markowitz" 
To: 
Subject: US Secret Service checking laptops at airports
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 18:26:52 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0
Sender: owner-cryptography@c2.net

A friend of mine recently traveled from one of the Washington DC area
airports to Ireland and reports that US Secret Service agents checked her
laptop for the domestic 128-bit crypto versions of Netscape Navigator and
Microsoft Internet Explorer at the metal detector station. She said she saw
about six other people who were checked as she was going through. As is now
common, anyone carrying a laptop computer was asked to boot it up,
presumably to demonstrate that if the case hid a bomb at least it was
programmable with a reasonable looking user interface. But in her instance,
people who identified themselves as Secret Service agents had her start up
her web browser so they could check the encryption level, and made her
uninstall her 128-bit Navigator.

It didn't seem to matter to them that there are exemptions for devices that
are for personal use as long as they are kept with the person while out of
the country, or that she is an international banker who was going to conduct
business with an overseas office. They didn't bother to determine whether
she had a copy of the Navigator install file in a backup directory and could
simply reinstall on the airplane. And of course it made no difference that
she was going to Ireland where she picked up a locally produced 128-bit
crypto plugin for Navigator that she says works just as well if not better
than the version from Netscape. (I don't know if her "plugin" is simply one
of the scripts that enable the Netscape strong crypto in the export
version.)

 -- Sidney Markowitz 

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Rod Logic 
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 00:23:01 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <19981005051303.12542.rocketmail@send101.yahoomail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain








_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "James A. Donald" 
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 00:43:33 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: <4.0.2.19981004140550.00a73a20@shell11.ba.best.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> > Except for police intervention, anyone is free to buy coke
> > from dealers affiliated with the Crips, affiliated with the
> > Bloods, or affiliated with any one of several smaller
> > providers of such services.

At 03:14 PM 10/4/98 -0500, Jim Choate wrote:
> Really? I dare you to wear the colors of a Crip and then sell in the Bloods
> neighborhood.

It is not necessary to wear colors when buying drugs. 

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     NNyzlfFoQPvD+PpoSEHWiAEieWio2L2mK86eLP83
     4TkkfRz3u+9afancvskOlFITdjJ+TM0dazEUQsv4s
-----------------------------------------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because 
of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this 
right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.


http://www.jim.com/jamesd/      James A. Donald




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "James A. Donald" 
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 01:13:44 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Another question about free-markets...
In-Reply-To: <199810050453.XAA01444@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <199810050614.XAA14618@proxy3.ba.best.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 11:53 PM 10/4/98 -0500, Jim Choate wrote:
> Now in a free-market, by definition, there is no law. What
> then is the responsibility of businesses other than the
> pure unadulterated pursuit of profit? 

None whatsoever.

> If this includes lying, denying consumers information, etc.
> what harm is done, they have fulfilled their responsibility
> to their shareholders (potentialy quite lucratively) 

While there is a sucker born every minute, the strategy you
describe is for the most part unlikely to be profitable.

> Within this environment it follows that a primary strategy
> for such executives is the elimination of *all*
> competition.

Fortunately the most cost effective method of eliminating all
competition is that followed by Alcoa, to deliver a
satisfactory product at the cheapest possible price.

In the cocaine market a number of organizations have
attempted to employ other methods for eliminating
competition, but here in America these methods have generally
proved not only unprofitable, but also for the most part
fatal. 

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     GyHvJ0Mh5TLXWeuRFFAMR+C9RlwfJf71h1IZ/fFt
     4+Ev0QZVg+BYgSXjL4IgOBonA/OwuM11NaPGTgMxr
-----------------------------------------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because 
of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this 
right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.


http://www.jim.com/jamesd/      James A. Donald




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 01:02:23 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: Capitalism and Monopolies (was RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction)
Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A193A7A15@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Jim Choate wrote:
> Only after the early 1890's when the situation got so bad 
> they had to do something. Prior to that there was no federal 
> intervention in railroad operations per se 

Completely false. Traffic to/from the West coast did not warrant the
capital investment in transcontinental railway, so the government make
*exclusive* lands grants to specific railroads to extend the railways to
the West coast (100M acres between 1863-7) . Those subsidies created the
monopolies, the source of coercive power over Western farmers. Protest
against this arbitrary power was blamed on the market instead of the
government subsidies, and resulted in the Interstate Commerce Act of
1887, and the Sherman Act of 1890. 

I should have stated government "distortions" instead of "regulation."
That includes subsidies.

> And every drop of mineral rights in this country is owned 
> by oil companies or the US government as a result of the 
> conflicts that took place from the late 1800's to the 
> early 1900's.

The placement (ownership) of these rights, their value, restrictions and
enforcement are the result of a free market? No, government
intervention.

> Actualy the local and state regulators did that back in the 
> late 50's and early 60's the federals had no hand in it.

Did anyone ever state monopolies result from federal regulations?
Government distortion/intervention, that can come at any level. Acts of
force or coercion can create a monopolistic situation, free trade
cannot.

> Bullshit math. The interactions are nowhere near as simple as 
> you state. The big company has the resources to outlast the 
> smaller company in any industry that can monopolize (an issue
> you seem to miss, not all industries can monopolize)

So what is the discriminating factor(s) distinguishing industries that
can and cannot be monopolized?

Don't forget capital markets; a free fluid capital market can and will
support a smaller competitor if potential long term profits will support
it. I will qualify that we do not have a very free capital market, it
currently favors larger businesses. The answer is to deregulate the
capital market. Even with our heavily regulated capital markets this
works often.

> Examples please where a small firm dukes it out (sic) on 
> equal terms with a larger one...

Equality is about freedom of action, not status or result. Amazon vs
Barnes & Noble, Yahoo vs NBC, Red Hat vs Microsoft, etc.

I see the egalitarian perversion of "equality" polluting arguments
against free market capitalism. Equal states and "game" like fairness
and handicapping is not ideal, Freedom is ideal.

> > In one of those nordic countries, I think Finland, the phone
> > system was never made a public enterprise or state regulated
> > monopoly, but most other things were.
> 
> Then how does it operate? Who owns the switches and wires? 
> Either it's a public utility or it's some sort of private
> enterprise (though it may by under contract to the government).

However buys and installs the switches and wires. There is no artificial
barriers such as right-of-way restrictions, exclusive franchise,
utilities commission, or nationalization. There are many competing
telecom companies, all the way to local loop.

> > There is no "natural monopoly" that is not somewhere a
> 
> A 'natural' monoploy, to my mind, is a company that operates 
> in an industry that can be saturated.

That's a perverted definition of 'natural' monopoly. A 'natural'
monopoly involves something where all or none must benefit (e.g.
military defense) or something based on a severely scarce resource (e.g.
real estate to your house).

Market saturation is a natural effect of free competition, the number of
firms it takes is irrelevant, and competition is not barred by
artificial restraint, only profit. If a firm abuses its position
competition can and will capitalize on the opportunity. A coercive
monopoly is one that is immune to market constraints (supply and demand)
-- that requires artificial barriers.

> The VCR industry is a great example of a 'natural' monopoly. 

You must be joking. I could enter the video recording/playback equipment
market tomorrow with sufficient capitalization and turn good profits in
5 years. I didn't say VCR because that is terribly myopic, the market
demand is the function not the technology. Technology and innovation is
a natural destabilizer to monopoly positions.

	Matt




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Blanc" 
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 02:05:23 +0800
To: "'Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer'" 
Subject: RE: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!... (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199810050447.XAA01383@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <000601bdf02f$a5f26fa0$7e8195cf@blanc>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate retorted to my statement:

:> They never have to worry about who has more or less, who is better or worse,
:> or who knows better than anyone what is best for everyone.  It's all been
:> pre-established and exists incontrovertibly in their national consumer database.
:
: It would be nice if  you said something other than "I disagree". It would
: really be nice if you cold describe specific examples and hypothesis, but
: that obviously is asking too much.
............................................................................


Why, where do you see any "I disagree" statement?

And really, I don't mind providing specific examples and hypotheses -  can you give me an idea where
I might look for these?

    ..
Blanc




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 01:34:23 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: RE: Another question about free-markets...
Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A193A7A16@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate wrote:
> Now in a free-market, by definition, there is no law.

A free market is not the absence of law (that is anarchy), a free market
is the absence of government intervention in trade and commerce.

That does not mean people and businesses are immune from criminal law,
fraud statutes, civil liability, etc.

> If this includes lying, denying consumers information,

The market addresses information disclosure by favoring vendors that
disclose. The legal system addresses intentional misinformation.

You are confusing Laissez Faire [free market] Capitalism with
Anarcho-Capitalism.

	Matt




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 01:53:18 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A193A7A17@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




"Corruptissima republicae, plurimae leges."

-- Tacitus


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robert Hettinga [mailto:rah@shipwright.com]

> Most criminologists will tell that the more corrupt the 
> jurisdiction, the harder it is to be in compliance with 
> the law. That way, it's easier for the state's 
> functionaries to shake you down.

> "'If we could just pass a few more laws', we could all be 
> criminals!"




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Blanc" 
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 02:18:56 +0800
To: "'Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer'" 
Subject: RE: Another question about free-markets...
In-Reply-To: <199810050453.XAA01444@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <000801bdf031$9232abe0$7e8195cf@blanc>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>From Jim Choate:

: Now in a free-market, by definition, there is no law. What then is the
: responsibility of businesses other than the pure unadulterated pursuit of
: profit? If this includes lying, denying consumers information, etc. what
: harm is done, they have fulfilled their responsibility to their shareholders
: (potentialy quite lucratively) and broken no law. Within this environment it
: follows that a primary strategy for such executives is the elimination of
: *all* competition. And since there is no law other than the measure of profit
: all can be justified.
................................................................................


There might be no Law.   But there would still be Reality  -  and for some people, this is *much*
harder to deal with.

If customers sit around like lumps on a log depending upon the kindness of strangers, well they're
not doing themselves any favors.  But such a person is not a customer.  They are an invalid (or will
be, eventually).

In a free-market economy, everybody - not only corporations, not only customers - have to be
rational about what they're doing.   Everybody has to "be on their toes", alert to what truly is in
their interest, and prevent themselves from accepting, from supporting, self-defeating offers from
Trojans bearing spam.   You learn or you die, just like in the movies.


    ..
Blanc




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 02:29:51 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A193A7A18@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate wrote:
> Explain further, from your description of the differences there 
> are no fundamental mentionings or views of intellectual property.
> As a matter of fact the specific role of the individual is never 
> even mentioned in either definition.

Intellectual property is fundamentally unenforceable in an anarchic
state (you have no govt), at least in the manner we have now, whereas a
Laissez Faire state could enforce it (you have limited govt). That says
nothing about whether IP should exist in current form or at all, simply
that it *could* exist under LF.

I don't support the current path IP law is headed, but I support the
underlying basis for intellectual property rights, as do most LF
advocates.

There are many different takes on anarchism, from those that include
coercion as a market (and marketable) element to those where it is
prohibited, but without the state (rational anarchy). Therefore it is
difficult to discriminate the differences other than limited government
versus no government.

> So people don't have a right to self-defence? I agree 
> consensual crimes are not crimes.

No, you certainly have a right to self-defense.

>> "What, then, is law? It is the collective organization of the
individual
>> right to lawful defense."

> Is it?

Is it? No. Should it be? Yes.

> Or is it simply another sort of coercion to cooperate with the
> collective?

Yes.

"Nowhere has the coercive and parasitic nature of the State been more
clearly limned than by the great late nineteenth-century German
sociologist, Franz Oppenheimer. Oppenheimer pointed out that there are
two and only two mutually exclusive means for man to obtain wealth. One,
the method of production and voluntary exchange, the method of the free
market, Oppenheimer termed the 'economic means'; the other, the method
of robbery by the use of violence, he called the 'political means.' The
political means is clearly parasitic, for it requires previous
production for the exploiters to confiscate, and it subtracts from
rather than adding to the total production in society. Oppenheimer then
proceeds to define the State as the 'organization of the political
means' -the systematization of the predatory process over a given
territorial area."
    -- Murray Rothbard on Franz Oppenheimer's  _Der Staat_

> I'm interesting to see how you reconcile the belief nobody 
> has a right to use force yet has a right to defend their 
> life.

Abolition of *coercive* force. Defensive force I promote.

>>"For what are our faculties but the extension of our 
>>individuality? And what is property but an extension 
>>of our faculties?"

> By facluty I assume you mean our emotional and psychological 
> makeup coupled with our sensory record of them.
> 
> I'd say that such issues are not a facet of individualism but 
> rather a characteristic of life itself.

That was a quote from Frederick Bastiat, not me. Faculty is a broad
term, your cognitive faculty is physiological, but your rational faculty
(your mind) is really the essence of individuality. You are more
correct, your individuality is derived from your faculty, your faculty
is derived from the nature of man.

> No it doesn't. You must first prove that a group of 
> individuals have some right that as individuals they don't have.

Absolutely not and no they don't. What part did you miss? A group is
simply a collection of individuals, therefore holds no more rights nor
less rights than any single member, nor does any member sacrifice any
rights by participating in a group.

> For one thing, even in your definition, rights are a 
> fundamental aspect of birth as an individual.

Rights are based on the nature of reality (survival).

"In order to sustain its life, every living species has to follow a
certain course of action required by its nature. The action required to
sustain human life is primarily intellectual: everything man needs has
to be discovered by his mind and produced by his effort. Production is
the application of reason to the problem of survival...

Since knowledge, thinking, and rational action are properties of the
individual, since the choice to exercise his rational faculty or not
depends on the individual, man's survival requires that those who think
be free of the interference of those who don't. Since men are neither
omniscient nor infallible, they must be free to agree or disagree, to
cooperate or pursue their own independent course, each according to his
own rational judgement. Freedom is the fundamental requirement of man's
mind...

The social recognition of man's rational nature--of the connection
between his survival and his use of reason--is the concept of
*individual rights*.

..."rights" are a moral principle defining and sanctioning a man's
freedom of action in a social context...

...man has to work and produce in order to support his life. He has to
support his life by his own effort and by the guidance of his own mind.
If he cannot dispose of the product of his effort, he cannot dispose of
his effort; if he cannot dispose of his effort, he cannot dispose of his
life. Without property rights, no other rights can be practiced." -- Ayn
Rand

	Matt




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Blanc" 
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 04:40:44 +0800
To: 
Subject: RE: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!... (fwd)
Message-ID: <000c01bdf045$4c5b3f60$7e8195cf@blanc>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>From Jim Choate:

: The bottem line as to why free-market economies don't work is that it isn't
: in the producers best interest to have a educated consumer.  They might buy
: somebody elses product or start their own company. Both of those are bad for
: profits.
:
: Free-market mavens forget that producers are just as greedy and corrupt as
: everyone else, there is no fair competition in an unregulated market given
: the pshychological make up of human beings.
................................................................................
........


Free market economices don't "work", simply because they are run by humans, who
regularly suffer psychological breakdowns, envy, and mistakes of judgement, not
to mention disreputable marketing departments.   Regulated economies, however,
are run by government drones, and are therefore perfect vehicles which, with
unfailing success, make all of their captive customers happy.

Everyone knows this, as we witness the apparent success of all those regulated
economies overseas which outshine the U.S. by three (maybe four) orders of
magnitude.  No one over there envies the U.S. productivity and standard of
living, and they never are moved to leave and come live over here, to give up
the benefits which extreme regulation confers upon them, in place of the
(admittedly mixed) free-market fiasco which operates over here, where all things
are uncertain and frighteningly unpredictable.

In fact, many people become so disgusted with the monopolies and disfunctional
liberty which exists here, that they regularly expatriate to go live in places
like Sweden, Germany, even Canada, where they have the peace of mind and
assurance that State coercion will provide for their every need  -  in a most
efficient, timely, prompt, and user-friendly manner.

They never have to worry about who has more or less, who is better or worse, or
who knows better than anyone what is best for everyone.  It's all been
pre-established and exists incontrovertibly in their national consumer database.


   ..
Blanc




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Blanc" 
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 04:49:00 +0800
To: 
Subject: RE: Another question about free-markets..
Message-ID: <000e01bdf046$7b509ee0$7e8195cf@blanc>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>From Jim Choate:

: Now in a free-market, by definition, there is no law. What then is the
: responsibility of businesses other than the pure unadulterated pursuit of
: profit? If this includes lying, denying consumers information, etc. what
: harm is done, they have fulfilled their responsibility to their shareholders
: (potentialy quite lucratively) and broken no law. Within this environment it
: follows that a primary strategy for such executives is the elimination of
: *all* competition. And since there is no law other than the measure of profit
: all can be justified.
................................................................................


There might be no Law.   But there would still be Reality  -  and for some
people, this is *much* harder to deal with.

If customers sit around like lumps on a log depending upon the kindness of
strangers, well they're not doing themselves any favors.  But such a person is
not a customer.  They are an invalid (or will be, eventually).

In a free-market economy, everybody - not only corporations, not only
customers - have to be rational about what they're doing.   Everybody has to "be
on their toes", alert to what truly is in their interest, and prevent themselves
from accepting, from supporting, self-defeating offers from Trojans bearing
spam.   You learn or you die, just like in the movies.


   ..
Blanc




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Martinus Luther" 
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 08:57:13 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: importance of  motivation
Message-ID: <19981005135608.2064.qmail@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>From Tim May:

> Any trendy new diagnosis always gets some recruits...dyslexia, ADD 
>(*), the abuse excuse, etc. (* Like any trendy thing, it gets renamed 
> to keep its panache. ADD has been  renamed to something with four 
> letters, which I now forget (must be ADD).)

And it is worse than that, they're scum, Tim. They claim (in last months 
SciAm) that  5% of kids have ADHD  (some sources have it at 15%).  This 
isn't a disease, this is one end of the normal variation in behaviour. 
It is as if you diagnosed an adult male height of less than 5 foot 4 
inches as "dwarf" and prescribed growth hormone. Or as if you  operated 
on any woman over 5 foot 10 to shorten her legs. 

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/publicat/adhd.htm says 3 to 4 times as many boys 
as girls have it.  So they are saying that ADHD affects 15 to 60 percent 
of all boys! This isn't one end of the normal range of behaviour, this 
is just plain normal.

The psycho-babble establishment is proposing drugging 5 to 15 percent of 
the population to alter their behaviour.   If this "diagnosis" had been 
around when I was a kid they would have drugged me.  I found a 14 point 
checklist for ADHD on the web at:  
http://www.docnet.org.uk/autopage/messages/23.html   In the last 48 
hours my daughter has shown 11 of these. And I've shown 14.  This is 
just normal life they are talking about.

This is the misuse of psychiatric  medicine for political control, as 
much as anything that went on in Stalin's Russia.  (the personal is 
political - if one young man behaves in a way unacceptable to their 
elders that is personal - if  5 million do it is political). I object, 
strongly, to some guy in a white coat saying the problem with my life is 
my brain and he wants me to take this little pill and then it will be 
alright.

Which is not to say that some people don't have real problems for which 
Ritalin is a workaround. But 15%, 10% or even 5% isn't psychiatry it is 
politics.   Large parts of our daily life is tedious, boring, of no 
direct relevance to anything we are interested in.  Most kids in school 
are made to sit through boring lessons. Bloody hell! They made us do 
sport. Is anything more shitlike?

Most adults at work make themselves do things they have no interest in 
other than for the money they might get out of it (which is where we cam 
in with all that discussion about research that shows  that people 
perform less well on  tasks done primarily for reward  -  Marx was right 
about alienation, you know) A  healthy person  *ought* to have trouble 
paying attention to some of the things they are asked to do. Maybe we 
will have better lives if we drug ourselves (Ritalin, Prozak, E, daytime 
television) to get through the shit of the day but let it be a decision 
adults make for themselves, not one imposed on children by parents or 
the psychatric eastablishment.

I could do with a cup of tea...

> We've had some nutballs and losers (luser spelling: loosers) on this 
> list.  People who claim the reason they can't make a coherent 
> argument or hold a  steady job is because of something some 
> psychobabbler told them was their  excuse.

It's weird how people do that. If a doctor gives something a long name 
is suddenly becomes alright.  Some parents are ashamed that their kids 
can't read well. Put it in Greek and call it "Dyslexia" and all of a 
sudden it isn't something you do, or are, or don't do or aren't capable 
of - it becomes something you *have*,  not really part of you, baggage, 
a burden that could one day be dropped, something that has been done to 
you, imposed on you, soemthing that is not your fault.  
Reality  hasn't changed, just the words used to describe it, yet it is 
now less threatening.

The germ theory of disease is stretched to the limit. Pasteur showed 
that some diseases are caused by microorganisms. Simple cause and 
effect. One baterial disease is caused by pone organism, another by 
another.  That is deeply embedded in our thoughts. So now all disease, 
all misfortune, has to be given a name, put in a box and traced back to 
a simple cause.  I'm not fat, I have an eating disorder. I'm not stupid, 
I have a learning disability.  I'm not sad, or worried, or bored, or 
scared - I have depression or an anxiety disorder or an attention 
deficit disorder.  Some societies attribute all misfortune to witchcraft 
- if your cow dies then someone, somewhere must have cursed you.  We now 
attribute all misfortune to something outside ourselves, not part of us.  
It wasn't me, it was my syndrome.   

And its all part of the pressure put on familys by business. Conform, 
consume, keep quiet. Don't rock the boat.  Turn up on time, wear our 
clothes, work our hours.  No alcohol on the premises. Or at lunchtime. 
Take this here drugs test - we don't want dope fiends and hippies in our 
office.  

Stressed out? Bored? Overworked? Tense, anxious, nervous soul-ache? 
Nothing acts faster than Ritalin. Especially when cut with Prozac to 
prolong that cool, mellow feeling.

Time off to look after the children? Not if you want the job to be open 
when you come back. Just give them a bite of our magic apple and they 
will be alright.

What's that you say about drugs? No, these are  Good Drugs. The men in 
the white coats say so. And what's more they are patentable and we own 
shares in Ciba Geigy, Lilly, Fison's  and Hoffman La Roche. Good Drugs 
keep you working until we want to let you go. Good Drugs keep you 
consuming until you have no more money to pay us with. Good drugs keep 
you working for our profit.  Good Drugs keep you from complaining, 
striking,  joining a union, praying, helping, loving, singing, fighting 
back in any way whatsoever. Good Drugs keep you from realising that half 
your work goes into  our pockets. Good Drugs keep you scared, scared of 
poverty, scared of being different, scared of standing out, scared of 
using your head to think any thoughts we don't want thank. Good Drugs 
keep you addicted to your job, your country, your government, your boss. 
The Best Drug is the mortgage.


John the Ranter/

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Rick Campbell 
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 06:06:05 +0800
To: rms@gnu.org
Subject: Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code)
In-Reply-To: <199809301621.KAA09089@wijiji.santafe.edu>
Message-ID: <199810051105.HAA13894@germs.dyn.ml.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Boundary..3997.1071713807.multipart/signed"

--Boundary..3997.1071713807.multipart/signed
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

    Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 10:21:42 -0600
    From: Richard Stallman 
    
    It isn't surprising that people who want to write non-free software
    are disappointed that the GNU project won't help them.  What is
    amazing is that they feel this is unfair.  They have no intention of
    letting me use their source code in my programs--so why should they be
    entitled to use my source code in their programs?  These people seem
    to think that their selfishness entitles them to special treatment.

This is faulty logic.  I may wish to write some code for free, that
is, have the intention of letting you use my source code in your
programs, and to write other code for profit.  If I want to write
something for free, I'd like it to be free for any purpose, including
commercial purposes, thus the GPL is inappropriate.

I would vastly prefer that people simply place their code in the
public domain explicitly.

			Rick


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--Boundary..3997.1071713807.multipart/signed--



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 07:08:42 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Another question about free-markets... (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810051212.HAA02813@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 10:03:25 +0100
> From: Steve Mynott 
> Subject: Re: Another question about free-markets...

> On Sun, Oct 04, 1998 at 11:53:28PM -0500, Jim Choate wrote:
> 
> > Now in a free-market, by definition, there is no law. What then is the
> 
> no in a free market there is no state
> 
> there are laws based on natural rights

Ok, who writes the laws? Who enforces the laws? Who decides what is natural?

Remember, we have *NO* participants in a free market other than the producer
and the consumer. Two, and *only* two, parties are involved.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 07:10:27 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810051214.HAA02867@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: Matthew James Gering 
> Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
> Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 00:29:33 -0700 

> state (you have no govt), at least in the manner we have now, whereas a
> Laissez Faire state could enforce it (you have limited govt). That says
> nothing about whether IP should exist in current form or at all, simply
> that it *could* exist under LF.

[other stuff deleted]

Ok, so you're talking out of both sides of your mouth then. On one hand you
speak of a free-market (vis-a-vis Laissez Faire) and then in the same
breath, with not even a blink of an eye, you speak of limited government.

You can't have your cake and eat it too. Sorry.

This is gibberish.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 07:11:48 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: Another question about free-markets... (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810051216.HAA02918@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: Matthew James Gering 
> Subject: RE: Another question about free-markets...
> Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 23:34:09 -0700 

> > Now in a free-market, by definition, there is no law.
> 
> A free market is not the absence of law (that is anarchy), a free market
> is the absence of government intervention in trade and commerce.

And how does government intervene and interfere? By making law.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 07:25:38 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Capitalism and Monopolies (was RE: GPL & commercial software, the (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810051230.HAA02994@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: Matthew James Gering 
> To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
> Subject: Capitalism and Monopolies (was RE: GPL & commercial software, the
> 	 critical distinction)
> Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 23:01:16 -0700 

> Jim Choate wrote:
> > Only after the early 1890's when the situation got so bad 
> > they had to do something. Prior to that there was no federal 
> > intervention in railroad operations per se 
> 
> Completely false.

Not totaly.

> Traffic to/from the West coast did not warrant the
> capital investment in transcontinental railway, so the government make
> *exclusive* lands grants to specific railroads to extend the railways to
> the West coast (100M acres between 1863-7) . Those subsidies created the
> monopolies, the source of coercive power over Western farmers. Protest
> against this arbitrary power was blamed on the market instead of the
> government subsidies, and resulted in the Interstate Commerce Act of
> 1887, and the Sherman Act of 1890. 

Only *after* it was clear that these companies could not do it themselves
because of a lack of sufficient traffic to support the business.

I must congratulate you. You're the first person in a long while who actualy
took the time to develop an argument based on *fact*. Well done.

> I should have stated government "distortions" instead of "regulation."
> That includes subsidies.

Even better, a distinction between 'law' and a 'grant'!....

> The placement (ownership) of these rights, their value, restrictions and
> enforcement are the result of a free market? No, government
> intervention.

Actualy no, try buying a piece of land and enforcing the title *without*
registering it at the country seat or its likes.

> Did anyone ever state monopolies result from federal regulations?
> Government distortion/intervention, that can come at any level. Acts of
> force or coercion can create a monopolistic situation, free trade
> cannot.

Absolutely it can because it actualy allows a freer hand in developing
strategies to decrease the market potential of ones competition. There is
*nothing* in free-market definitions or descriptions which will prevent
gross abuse of the consumer by the manufacturer. Remember in a free-market
there is the requirement for 'fair competition' which is contrary to the
very theory of business operation, which is to maximize profit and reduce
competition.

Now if we lived on Vulcan and we were all logical Vulcans it might work,
unfortunately we're not and human beings will specificaly go after their
competition, which without some sort of regulation being impossed leads to
obvious results; initialy a very fluid and dynamic market that settles down
with the survival of the fitest getting bigger and bigger. As these
companies get big enough they can no longer react as  quickly as they once
did (intertia of strategy among other things). At some point it becomes
easier to cooperate than to continue to fight. That cooperation leads to a
melding and promotes even more monopolization. 

> So what is the discriminating factor(s) distinguishing industries that
> can and cannot be monopolized?

Saturation of the consumer market, high start-up costs in either
infrastructure or intellectual resources, and others. I posted a list of
some characteristics to the list a while back. You can look for it. If I get
time I'll post it to the list again.

> Don't forget capital markets;

Are you speaking of capital markets in the sense of fluid and available
funding or of the existance of businesses that produce the capital assetts
needed by other businesses (eg creating rail-cars for rail-roads)?

 a free fluid capital market can and will
> support a smaller competitor if potential long term profits will support
> it.

You can't pay your employees today with tomorrow profit. This isn't a
Popeye's hamburger vendor...

There is another question I'd like to pose. In a free-market economy there
are only two participants, the consumer and the producer, what if anything
in the definition prevents one or the other from employing an agent in their
stead to 'negotiate' with the other. Does this by definition introduce a
third party or is it a permissible extension of the two-party system?


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 07:33:54 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Another question about free-markets... (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810051237.HAA03149@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 22:58:05 -0700
> From: "James A. Donald" 
> Subject: Re: Another question about free-markets...

> > If this includes lying, denying consumers information, etc.
> > what harm is done, they have fulfilled their responsibility
> > to their shareholders (potentialy quite lucratively)=20
> 
> While there is a sucker born every minute, the strategy you
> describe is for the most part unlikely to be profitable.

Then you should begin to check your daily news, example after example is
presented. (currently illegal) cell phone cloning, excessive rate levels,
sub-standard construction practices, etc.

People by their very nature understand and impliment the prisoners delima
maximum pay-off strategy.

Not only can it happen it deos. Given that such abuse is possible in a
regulated market there is no reason not to deduce it will happen in a free
market economy as well. If it happens the business enjoys an increased profit
if for no other reason than their costs are reduced. Since there is no
regulation or other oversight the consumer will be denied this information
preventing fair competition. Since a companies strategic leaders have no
duty other than maximizing profit they will impliment such strategies. Hence
the free-market reduces to an opportunistic anarchy.

This leads to one and only one conclusion, in a free-market there is no such
thing as 'fair trade' without a third party being involved. This runs
contrary to the definition of a free market on two counts (at least) and
therefore the free market theory (as applied to human business, not Vulcan)
is a circular argument based on faulty principles and a lack of
understanding of human psychology (ie assumptions such as rational
purchases).


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "James A. Donald" 
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 10:31:14 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: <199810051530.IAA24397@proxy3.ba.best.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>> From: Steve Mynott  there
>> are laws based on natural rights

At 07:12 AM 10/5/98 -0500, Jim Choate wrote:
> Ok, who writes the laws? 

No one.

> Who enforces the laws? Who decides what is natural?

In the minarchist proposal, as explained by Bastiat, already
quoted on this thread, http://www.jim.com/jamesd/bastiat.htm
"the collective force", aka the minimal state.

In the anarchist proposal, explained by Spooner in "Natural
Law" http://www.jim.com/jamesd/spooner.htm, and myself in
"Anarcho Capitalism, a short summary"
http://www.jim.com/jamesd/anarcho-.htm, anyone and everyone
decides.  Attempts to enforce unnatural law are more likely
to get one killed.

Friedman in "A positive account of property rights"
http://www.best.com/~ddfr/Academic/Property/Property.html
explains why enforcing the law "Whats yours is yours, and
what is mine is mine" is less likely to get you killed than
attempting to enforce the law "Whats mine is mine, whats
yours is up for grabs" 

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     y5lZXNb9KdI6G/J/Mw0QVE3D0Xa+BCJ1nJ9JZrgy
     4b6jnnkVkioQJ7SSLk7VTW3r694QFvcvfRB6H3dGp
-----------------------------------------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because 
of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this 
right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.


http://www.jim.com/jamesd/      James A. Donald




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 01:35:09 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199810050630.IAA21291@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> At 12:59 PM 10/3/98 -0400, Michael Motyka wrote:
> >> There is a desert which is 1000 miles across. There is a camel who can
> carry
> >> 1000 bananas maximum. The camel eats 1 banana per mile travelled. The camel
> >> has a total of 3000 bananas to begin with. What is the maximum number of
> >> bananas that the camel can get across to the other side uneaten?
> >
> >My camels don't understand/can't eat fractional bananas.
> 
> Why are bananas quantized in the presense of camels?  Is this
> a quantum-computing thing?
> 
Can the camel increase his miles/banana ratio if he dries out the 
peels and smokes them?? 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 03:46:05 +0800
To: ravage@einstein.ssz.com
Subject: Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code) (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199810050201.VAA01105@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <199810050741.IAA11755@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate writes:
> > If your aim is to maximise crypto deployment, use BSD or some other
> > relatively free distribution license other than GNU, so that we can
> > more rapidly write and deploy crypto software to undermine the power
> > of the state.
> 
> With the proviso that the original author looses all access to profits from
> that code, effectively doing the R&D for untold numbers of companies without
> compensation or even recognition (they can claim it's all theirs at that
> point because they don't have to release the source).

Understanding dawns...

See, perhaps for you, personally, profit maximisation for yourself is
more interesting than crypto deployment.  But as I said in the section
quoted above "If your aim is to maximise crypto deployment", use BSD.

ie. Cypherpunks may choose to sacrifice profit, or recognition for in
the interests of deployment.

Tho' actually even these assumptions you are making are not always
correct: for example Eric Young does not charge for his software, Eric
gets lots of recognition (partly because his license asks for this --
"this software includes work by Eric Young" requirement); Eric I dare
say has as much consultancy work offered to him to work on developing
free code as he has hours for.

I ended up doing some paid crypto development work on SSLeay (the
resulting additions were also BSD licensed), and the person asking me
to do this commented that they had asked Eric, but he had too much
work.

So your theory doesn't work in this case: Eric is getting to make
money, get recognition, and maximise deployment.

Adam




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mark Hahn 
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 08:10:07 +0800
To: Anonymous 
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19981005085903.009519b0@mail.aosi.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



The base problem is interesting and I think ted would like it. I don't
think smoking bananas will make is any easier to solve the problem.

-MpH

At 08:30 AM 10/5/98 +0200, Anonymous wrote:
>> At 12:59 PM 10/3/98 -0400, Michael Motyka wrote:
>> >> There is a desert which is 1000 miles across. There is a camel who
can carry
>> >> 1000 bananas maximum. The camel eats 1 banana per mile travelled. The
camel
>> >> has a total of 3000 bananas to begin with. What is the maximum number of
>> >> bananas that the camel can get across to the other side uneaten?
>> >
>> >My camels don't understand/can't eat fractional bananas.
>> 
>> Why are bananas quantized in the presense of camels?  Is this
>> a quantum-computing thing?
>> 
>Can the camel increase his miles/banana ratio if he dries out the 
>peels and smokes them?? 
>
>
--------
Mark P. Hahn                    Work: 212-278-5861
mhahn@tcbtech.com               Home: 609-275-1834
TCB Technologies, Inc (mhahn@tcbtech.com)

Consultant to:
The SoGen Funds	1221 Avenue of the Americas, NY NY




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 02:36:45 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981005091349.008ad100@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 03:13 PM 10/4/98 -0500, Jim Choate wrote:
>> From: "James A. Donald" 
>> At 09:08 AM 10/4/98 -0500, Jim Choate wrote:
>> > Your local church is a member of a larger international
>> > collective that does in fact use coercion in one form or
>> > another.
>> Send me some of whatever you are smoking.
>
>That's the best you can come up with?

He's just implying that *your* local church is Rastafarian....


~~~~~
Kingdom?  I thought we were an autonomous collective....

				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bruce Schneier 
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 09:40:04 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Review of TriStrata Public Information
Message-ID: <199810051426.JAA18393@mixer.visi.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Review of TriStrata Public Information


1  Introduction

Over the past several months, a new company called TriStrata has been
getting substantial press for a new "one-time pad" cryptography system.
Most of these press reports took at face value the company's claims about
their technology and product, and did not try to analyze whether or not
they were true.  Counterpane Systems believes  it is important to dig under
the hype and figure out what the real story is behind their technology.

We reviewed the publicly available documentation on TriStrata, and found a
system whose architecture is that of an early-1970s pre-public-key
cryptography security system.  Central servers, upon which the security of
every message rests, must be kept absolutely secure; yet they run on
Windows NT.  These servers are all powerful, in that they can forge
messages, rewrite audit logs, fake authentication, and lie about anything
else in the system.  Users cannot access their files unless they are
connected to this server.  TriStrata does not use a one-time pad at all,
and none of the security proofs about a one-time pad apply to their system.
Their reliance on this encryption technology forces them to use security
protocols long abandoned by the rest of the security industry.  Even their
performance enhancements bely the fact that encryption is rarely the
bottleneck in any communications system.

Note: For a less-technical summary of this review, please see sections 4.0,
4.1, and 5.0.


2.0  The TriStrata System

2.1  Structure

The TriStrata system uses a centralized server, called the TESS (TriStrata
Enterprise Security Server).  The documentation is not very clear, but
document reference 3 suggests that each company would have its own TESS.
Every encryption or decryption operation requires a "permit" from the TESS.

To encrypt a file or message:

1. The user contacts the TESS over the network.  This can be any type of
network, such as the Internet or a local area network.

2. The user and the TESS authenticate each other using a proprietary
protocol called Private Access Line (PAL). 

3. The TESS sends a permit to the user machine, which is used to encrypt
the file or message. The TESS also sends a "seal" to the user.  This seal
is only readable by the TESS. 

4. The user simply stores the seal with the file (if it is encrypted
locally), or sends the seal along with the encrypted message (if it is to
be transmitted to another user).

To decrypt a file or message:

1. The user retrieves the seal and sends the seal to the TESS (along with
the authentication data from the PAL protocol).

2. The TESS opens the seal, and determines whether the user is allowed to
decrypt the data.

3. If the user is allowed to decrypt the data, the TESS sends a
decryption permit to the user. 

4. The user's local machine uses this permit to decrypt the file or message.

The TESS keeps full audit logs of all operations, and includes procedures
that allow designated recovery agents within the company to recover the
keys to any file.

The system is claimed to provide identification (who is using the system),
authentication (who sent a message), access control (restriction of access
to authorized users), integrity (assurance message is unaltered), and
non-repudiation (sender cannot deny having sent it).  They have received an
export license for their system.

2.2 Authentication

The authentication method used to authenticate the user to the TESS and
vice versa is a crucial part of the security architecture.  The TriStrata
documentation contains no further information than that this is handled by
the Private Access Line protocol.

2.3  Encryption Algorithm

The Random KeyStream (RKS) encryption algorithm used by TriStrata is hailed
as "a new fundamental technology."  It is claimed to be very fast, but the
documentation only contains raw speeds, without documenting which platform
these speeds were achieved on.  The encryption technology is also claimed
to be unconditionally secure. To quote the web site: "No matter how much
mathematical analysis or computing power is applied to the cryptanalysis of
RKS, there is simply no algorithm and no underlying pattern to break.  As
Herbert Yardley foresaw in 1931, cryptography as a profession is dead."


3.0  Our Comments

3.1  The Central Server Structure

Cryptographic systems that use a central access control server are nothing
new. The Kerberos protocol uses a central server for similar tasks.  Using
such a central server as the TESS has several advantages and disadvantages.

The main advantages are:

- There is a central place that administrates all the access rights.  This
makes various administrative tasks easier.

- Revocation of access is automatically supported by the system.  No
separate revocation mechanism is necessary.

- The central server can keep comprehensive auditing logs of
security-related operations.


The main disadvantages are:


- The central server contains confidential information, namely the master
keys that can decrypt any file. It is thus a very tempting target for
attack.  The central server must be very well protected.  At the same time,
the server must be reachable from across the network, and must be reliable,
as nothing can work without a functioning server.  The end result is a
server that is expensive (due to all the requirements) and that still is an
obvious point of attack.

- The central server is a single point of failure. TriStrata uses a
redundant server structure with fail-over, so that a second server takes
over when the first fails.  A fail-over structure protects against
technical errors, but does not necessarily protect against
denial-of-service attacks.  The TESS is based on a "security hardened"
version of Windows NT, an operating system that is not known for its
resistance to malicious attacks.

- The system is effectively a closed system.  Only users who are registered
at the server can partake in the system.  It is not clear how two users
that belong to different servers would communicate.  The TriStrata
documentation mentions electronic commerce extensively, but it does not
discuss how two users at two different companies can use the TriStrata
system to communicate with each other.

- Since the server contains crucial confidential information, every company
must run its own server.  A failure of the server, such as a leak of the
master keys from the server, can reveal all of the company's information.
This is the kind of task that should not be outsourced.  In contrast, the
key server of a public-key-based system is much easier to outsource as it
can be designed so as not to be critical for security.

- The TriStrata solution does not allow a user that is off-line to access
any encrypted files.  A salesman that keeps his data encrypted on his
portable computer cannot access the data without contacting the TESS.  If
he cannot get network access for some reason (e.g., on an airplane,
mismatched phone plug, etc.), he cannot access his own files.

The TriStrata solution is a return to a very old style of centralized key
management.  For some applications this is a good solution, but there are
many situations in which a centralized server is not appropriate.  For
example, one function that a central server cannot do well is
non-repudiation between adversarial parties (one of the critical functions
in electronic commerce).  The TESS system seems to provide non-repudiation
through inspection of the logs of the TESS.  But if a message is sent
between two companies, which TESS do they use? The company that owns the
TESS that is used can manipulate the logs in their own favor.  The end
result is that there is no watertight proof that the message was sent or
received.

In effect, this solution takes us back to the days before public-key
cryptography.  Since its invention in the late 1970s, the ideas of
certificates, public key infrastructure, decentralized key management,
separation of encryption and digital signature functions, etc., have all
been implemented in response to insecurities in centralized systems.  For
example, public-key infrastructures use trusted third parties like the
TESS, but in a public-key system, compromise of the trusted third party
only allows an attacker to issue false certificates, not to decrypt and
read messages.

3.2  Authentication

We have no further information on the PAL protocol.  The documentation does
state that the communication with the TESS consists of a single message
from the user to the TESS, and a single reply back.  Elsewhere it says that
the TESS is stateless, which makes it easy to do a fail-over should one
TESS fail.

It is not clear to the reviewers how the PAL protocol works, if we assume
it consists of two messages and is stateless for the TESS.  These two
properties together would suggest that an attacker can replay requests to
the TESS.  If nothing else, this introduces fake entries in the audit log.
Some of these attacks can be hindered by the use of local clocks, but every
solution along these lines we have ever seen is always troubled by clock
synchronization problems.

We note that the PAL protocol is critical for the security of the overall
system.  If an attacker can impersonate another user, then he can request
the proper permit from the TESS to decrypt a file, and will get access
regardless of the security of the actual encryption algorithm.  The PAL
protocol deserves careful scrutiny before the TriStrata system is put to use.

The most straightforward attack against the TriStrata system is to
introduce some hostile code into the client's PC (for example, a virus or
Trojan horse). This hostile code can then steal the necessary
authentication information and send it back to the attacker.  This type of
attack is a generic attack against any security system, not just the
TriStrata system, but it shows that the "provable security" is at best
limited to a small part of the system and does not extend to the whole system.

3.3  Encryption

To put it bluntly: the TriStrata system does not use the one-time pad
system (Vernam cipher) for encryption.  A true one-time pad uses a random
key that is distributed through a separate secure channel.  While a
one-time pad is, in fact, theoretically unbreakable when used properly, the
details of using it properly make it entirely unusable in any modern
commercial or military setting.

A true one-time pad gains its unbreakable security from the fact that the
key is as long as the message.  Since all keys are equally likely, and a
particular ciphertext could represent any message, given a particular key,
the ciphertext reveals nothing about the plaintext message without the
correct key.  These random keys must be entirely random; this usually
requires generating them from some external random source (such as thermal
noise or radioactive decay).  And both the sender and the receiver must
have this secret key, which must be exchanged in some fashion which the
attacker cannot penetrate.

The requirement that the keys be as long as the data to be exchanged and
that the key needs to be transported via some secure mechanism makes the
one-time pad system entirely impractical.  In order to send a 1 MB message,
the sender and receiver must exchange a 1 MB-long key.  Then the sender
could send the message and the receiver could use the key to decrypt it.
The key would then have to be thrown away and never used again.  If the
sender wanted to exchange messages with a hundred people, he would have to
pre-agree on different keys between each recipient.  For a company with a
thousand employees, this means that there are 499,500 different key sets,
which need to be replenished any time they are exhausted by message exchange.

Because the key has to be as long as the message, there is no way to use an
established system to exchange more keys, since in order to securely send
as 1 MB key a user needs 1 MB of additional pre-agreed key.  (And if users
can exchange these keys, why can't they just exchange the messages?)  This
means that all keys have to be exchanged via some other mechanism (such as
a courier).  This kind of system was used for the U.S.-Soviet teletype "hot
line" and it is occasionally used for paper ciphers and spies, but that's it.

There is no way in which a true one-time pad can be implemented over a
computer network.  From the information provided by TriStrata, we believe
that the encryption method used is a keystream method where an algorithm
generates a key stream which is then XORed with the plaintext to generate
the ciphertext.  This is known as a pseudo one-time pad, and is also called
an OFB stream cipher.  One of the modes of DES works in this manner, as
does the RC4 encryption algorithm.  This is not new technology. 

A pseudo one-time pad encryption algorithm can be secure, but claiming that
it is secure because it is based on the one-time pad is ridiculous.  The
strength of the cipher algorithm depends on the method used to generate the
key stream. 

The speed given for the encryption method is fairly fast, but without
knowing what platform was used to achieve these speeds, no sensible
comparison can be made.  To give some comparison material: the leading
candidates for the AES block cipher encryption standard can encrypt data in
about 18 clock-cycles per byte on a Pentium II.  A standard 350 MHz desktop
machine thus achieves nearly 20 Mbytes per second.  This compares to the
TriStrata claimed speed of 36 Mbytes per second for a standard desktop
machine.  The TriStrata figures are faster, but only by a factor of two.
This would be a nice speedup, but it does not present a fundamental
breakthrough in speed.

Reference 4 is a magazine article report that contains more information
about the encryption algorithm.  As with any magazine article, the accuracy
of the information is hard to judge.  Nevertheless, the information it
provides fits well with the information we have from TriStrata.

The TESS generates a single 1 Mbyte block of random data using a hardware
random number generator.  This block is distributed to all clients.  (A
second block is used for authentication, but we have no further information
on the algorithm.)  The encryption algorithm keeps several pointers into
this random block and derives the random key stream from the data the
pointers point to. This is a known technique, first used by Maurer in his
randomized cipher [Reference 5].  The TriStrata documentation talks about a
virtual keystream of over 10^30 bytes, which would correspond to 5 pointers
into a 1 Mbyte block.  This suggests an effective key size of at most 100
bits.  On the other hand, the website also claims that it would take 3.5 x
10^33 years to defeat one TriStrata-encrypted message, which would suggest
either a larger key space or a fundamental misunderstanding of the
mathematical properties of Maurer's system.

The random block is the same for all the clients.  It has to be, as the
client that does the decryption needs the same random block as the client
that does the encryption (and sending 1 Mbyte blocks around in the permit
is too slow).  Therefore, we cannot view this random block as a secret.
After all, a secret shared amongst thousands of users is not a secret any
more.  If we want a more conventional representation of the encryption
algorithm, we can represent the random block as a randomly generated 20 by
8-bit S-box. 

We have no knowledge about the details of this encryption algorithm, but
the most straightforward variants of this type are susceptible to a
meet-in-the-middle attack on the pointer space.  This could reduce the
effective key size to as little as 60 bits.

The journalist did a speed test of TriStrata's file encryption utility.  On
a 200 MHz Pentium Pro, 128 MB RAM and PCI Ultra-SCSI disk subsystem it
encrypted a 58 MB file in 18 seconds.  This corresponds to a speed of 3.2
Mbytes per second. Presumably this speed is limited by the speed of the
disk I/O.  On this platform a traditional encryption algorithm such as
Blowfish can encrypt at 10 Mbytes per second; the super-fast RKS encryption
is presumably faster than this.  Although this test does not give us any
real speed data, it does show that encryption speed is not the bottleneck
in most situations.  In this situation, the disk I/O is much slower than
the cryptography, making the encryption speed irrelevant.

3.5  Proprietary Encryption Algorithms

The nature of cryptography is such that there is no way to prove that a
cipher is secure, since this amounts to proving a negative assertion: that
there is no way to break it easily.  Anyone, from the most unsophisticated
amateur to the best cryptographer, can create an algorithm that he himself
can't break.  What is hard is creating an algorithm that no one else can
break, even after years of analysis.  And the only way to prove that is to
subject an algorithm to years of analysis by the best cryptographers around.

Because of this situation, the only recognized criterion for secure
cryptographic systems is peer review: having other cryptographers examine a
cipher and attack it. Even cryptographic organizations which operate in
secret, such as the NSA, have an extensive internal peer review system.

>From past experience we know that systems that are kept secret and 
presented as "provably secure," "unbreakable," "a 
new fundamental technology," or "one-time pad" are usually 
not very good at all.  Those who say these things generally do not 
understand the current state-of-the-art of mathematical cryptography, and 
make fundamental mistakes in their system design.

Encryption algorithms that are unpublished have a dismal record. The
literature is littered with the corpses of encryption algorithms that were
broken once they were published. Until TriStrata publishes its algorithm
and it is open to peer review there is no professional reason to presume it
is secure.


4.0  The Real Problem in Security Systems

It is interesting to note that TriStrata gives a lot of attention to the
encryption algorithm.  From all the problems that security systems face at
the moment, the encryption algorithm is probably the least important one.
There are many good encryption algorithms available in the published
literature that can be used for free.  TriStrata chose to develop their own
algorithm.  Although this can be a lot of fun, it is a decision that is
hard to justify, as new algorithms can only be considered secure after an
ample time of peer review.

Cryptographic systems are broken constantly, but the attacks are almost
never against the algorithms.  The really difficult problems in security
systems are key distribution, management, reliability, robustness, etc.
TriStrata uses the solution of having a central server, as necessitated by
its choice of encryption technology.  This solution is suitable in some
situations, but there are many problems that cannot be handled by this
approach.  In fact, the problems associated with central servers and
centralized key distribution have been driving the development of
public-key--based systems for the last two decades.

TriStrata, by implementing a Maurer-style randomized stream cipher and the
centralized key management it requires, has taken the one piece of the
cryptographic puzzle that we can solve--symmetric encryption--and made what
they perceive to be security improvements.  However, they did this at the
expense of the really hard problems in cryptography...ones that their
system does not seem to adequately solve.

4.1  Trust and Security Systems

Whenever someone buys a commercial product, he is trusting that the
manufacturer did a good job designing and building the product.  This is
especially important with security products.  If someone buys a word
processor and it does not perform as advertised (e.g., the print function
does not work), he will eventually notice (he won't be able to print his
documents).  If someone buys an encryption product, it can function
normally (encrypting and decrypting documents successfully), but that is no
indication that it is secure.  Security is completely separate from
functionality, and no amount of beta testing can ever uncover a security flaw.

In the commercial world, we rely on the public review process to evalute
the security of systems.  Internet security infrastructures, such as IPSec,
PKIX, and SSL, have been discussed and debated for years.  Versions have
been proposed, security flaws have been found, fixes have been implemented,
and so on.  Cryptographic algorithms in these protocols are ones that have
been around for years, and have had extensive cryptographic review by the
best in the field.  Even this is no guarantee of security--implementation
flaws are found (and fixed) in the code that implements these protocols,
but it establishes a certain degree of confidence.

TriStrata has chosen to ignore all public standards in favor of their own
proprietary technology, while at the same time refusing to make technical
details of their technology public.  In order to use their system, the
purchaser must trust that their cryptographers are better than the
collective wisdom of the world's academic cryptographers, that their
protocol designers are better than everyone who has worked on the open
Internet protocols over the last few years, that their implementers are
better than everyone who has made and evaluated the public implementations
of those protocols.  The purchaser must trust that TriStrata's misuse of
the academic terminology does not reflect a misunderstanding of that
technology, and that their technology is so much better than what everyone
else has agreed upon that it makes sense to make that leap of faith.

In the end, a star-studded board of directors and upper management does not
obviate the need for good science, open systems, and peer review.  It's
simply foolish to trust a system that has not been evaluated.


5.0  Conclusions

A system like TriStrata's can be made to work within its limitations.  It
is certainly not the universal solution to the world's security problems.
However, there is a huge amount of hype and very little substance to the
documentation.  Many of the statements made are incomplete, vague, or
suggest facts which cannot be true.  The cryptographic claims are wild and
unsubstantiated.  Parts are clearly written by someone who does not
understand modern cryptography, and who is not well versed in the
cryptographic literature.  Certain areas of the documentation give the
impression that they were written with the intent to deceive the reader,
but ignorance is probably a better explanation.  Based on past experience
with systems that made similar unsupported security claims, we are very
skeptical about the security of the TriStrata system.   

We reviewed the system as we have reconstructed it from various hints in
the text, as well as conversations with people who have been involved with
the system.  Until TriStrata releases technical information about its
product, it is not possible to give a complete evaluation of their technology.


References: 

[1]  TriStrata web site, http://www.tristrata.com, on Sept. 22nd, 1998.

[2]  Walter Hamscher, Alastair MacWillson, and Paul Turner, "Electronic
Business Without Fear: The TriStrata Security Architecture," Price Waterhouse.

[3]  "Building a Secure Future with CTR Business Systems and TriStrata
Security," leaflet.

[4]  Dan Backman, "TriStrata: A Giant Step In Enterprise Security,"
Network Computing Magazine, 15 September 1998.  Online,
http://www.nwc.com/915/915sp1.html

[5]  Ueli M. Maurer, "A Provably-Secure Strongly-Randomized Cipher,"
Advances in Cryptology -- Eurocrypt '90 Proceedings, Springer-Verlag, 1990,
pp. 361--373. 

**********************************************************************
Bruce Schneier, President, Counterpane Systems     Phone: 612-823-1098
101 E Minnehaha Parkway, Minneapolis, MN  55419      Fax: 612-823-1590
           Free crypto newsletter.  See:  http://www.counterpane.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: lcs Mixmaster Remailer 
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 04:39:13 +0800
To: mgering@ecosystems.net>
Subject: Re: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
Message-ID: <19981005094001.10355.qmail@nym.alias.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





Matthew James Gering wrote:
> 
> Jim Choate wrote:
> > I'd say the obvious one, the Unix code tree is more stable
> > than the MS tree.
> 
> Sure, but does that mean the MS platform was less suitable than Unix, or
> their MS platform programmers were inferior to their Unix counterparts.
> I believe Netscape outsourced the Unix development, at least initially.
> I would blame insufficient SQA at Netscape, and from what I've heard
> that claim is justified.
> 
>         Matt

My impression is that the instability described is due to fragmentation of the
virtual memory space, which happens faster on NT than Unix because of 
the relative immaturity of NT memory management. The side comment about
Mac's being even worse would support this hypothesis (as Mac memory management
is a joke).

The Netscape SQA theory doesn't explain why other products also become 
less reliable on NT (and worse again on 95).




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Brown, R Ken" 
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 09:41:28 +0800
To: "Brown, R Ken" 
Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
Message-ID: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F8480@MSX11002>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> James A. Donald wrote
> 
> [oddly irrelevant stuff about Satan skipped]
> 
> > A big company has no monetary advantage over a small company.
> 
> > Suppose Firm A controls 90% of the market and firm B 
> > controls 10% of the market.  Artificially low prices cost the 
> > big firm nine times as much as the small firm.  Under 
> > capitalism, the small company can duke it out on equal
> > terms with the big firm, and with great regularity, 
> > that is exactly what they do.
> 
> Sometimes. And sometimes they don't. Sometimes half-a-dozen big boys just
> gang up on the smallest. 
> 
> Anyway, your example ignores cross-subsidy whcih is the usal way to do
> this. 
> 
> And bigger companies precisely *do* have a financial advantage over small
> - they can borrow money at lower rates and they have more ways of hedging.
> When they  operate in more than one part of the world a certain amount of
> hedging is built in.  In general economies of scale aren't, but finance is
> one area where they do work.
> 
> There are more forms of competition than a price war Also if it comes to a
> *legal* slugging match the total amount
> 
> 
> >> Garbage (what we call rubbish over here) collection  is
> >> different again. It's not at all a nutural monopoly and
> >> there is nothing stopping anyone offering to do it as a
> >> business. But it is a natural for social ownership,
> 
> > You mistake the political adventures of your local elite for
> > universal laws.  
> 
> Just like you Americans do when you drivel on about guns in ways that most
> other people either don't care about or find repulsive?
> Anyway, I wasn't talking abou the  elite but  the majority. 
> 
> > In some parts of the world rubbish collection is private.
> 
> Yes, I know that. In some parts of this coutnry also. Anywere genuinly
> rural for a start. What's that got to do with what I said? 
> 
> > There is no "natural monopoly" that is not somewhere 
> > a private industry, and often it is a private industry in a
> > place that is otherwise quite socialist.  Public and private
> > ownership reflect the accidents of politics and history more
> > than they reflect the natural characteristics of the industry
> > in dispute.
> 
> I agree with this completely, but I don't think it invalidates anything we
> said. You are confusing 3 quite different questions:
> 
> - social ownership versus private ownership
> - competition versus monopoly
> - free trade versus protection
> 
> Ken Brown
> 
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Trei, Peter" 
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 08:50:54 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: FW: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!... (fwd)
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Blanc [SMTP:blancw@cnw.com]
> Sent:	Monday, October 05, 1998 12:10 AM
> To:	'Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer'
> Subject:	RE: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!... (fwd)
> 
 [...]
>  
> Free market economices don't "work", simply because they are run by
> humans, who regularly suffer
> psychological breakdowns, envy, and mistakes of judgement, not to mention
> disreputable marketing
> departments.   Regulated economies, however, are run by government drones,
> and are therefore perfect
> vehicles which, with unfailing success, make all of their captive
> customers happy.
> 
[four paragraphs of well written irony removed]


For those interested in a thoughtful (though slightly one sided) look at
this issue,
I strongly reccomend PJ O'Rourke's new book 'Eat the Rich'. He examines
several
locations (US, Sweden, Albania, Cuba, Russia, Hong Kong, Shanghai) in an
attempt to 
figure out why (economically) "some places suck and others don't" His bottom
line
is that the rule of law (especially contract law) is critical, as well as
democratic
government. 

He's much more interested in on-the-ground economic experience than in
government
figures, and is the only economics writer who can make me laugh out loud. He
does
have his blind spots - I would have liked to see what he makes of Singapore.

Peter Trei

[Excuse the lousy formatting - I'm using a Microsoft product]

 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Steve Mynott 
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 04:05:22 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: Another question about free-markets...
In-Reply-To: <199810050453.XAA01444@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <19981005100325.A6527@tightrope.demon.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Sun, Oct 04, 1998 at 11:53:28PM -0500, Jim Choate wrote:

> Now in a free-market, by definition, there is no law. What then is the

no in a free market there is no state

there are laws based on natural rights

-- 
pgp 1024/D9C69DF9 1997/10/14 steve mynott 

    the chief value of money lies in the fact that one lives in a world
in which it is overestimated.  -- h. l. mencken




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 02:36:45 +0800
To: "James A. Donald" 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981005101458.008ad910@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>> It is certainly growing but the fact is that by a factor of
>> orders of magnitude commercial Unix'es own that market.
>> When it comes to mission critical servers Solaris, HP, &
>> AIX own the market still.
>
>The number one server is not Microsoft, and is not commercial.

Apache is the #1 server if you count by "web sites on the Internet".
Lots of web sites aren't on the Internet, but inside corporate nets,
which are more likely to be running commercial software, whether
commercial or NT, while people with home machines obviously prefer free.

But what if you count by "pages served per day"?  High-volume servers
are likely to run on bigger machines than low-volume servers,
so they're more likely to be running commercial Unix,
though some may be running on multi-Pentium systems with NT.
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bruce Schneier 
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 11:38:07 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code)
In-Reply-To: <199810051105.HAA13894@germs.dyn.ml.org>
Message-ID: <199810051636.LAA07155@mixer.visi.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Clear and coherent summary, and accurate.  Thanks.

At 11:39 AM 10/5/98 -0400, Perry E. Metzger wrote:
>
>My take on the licensing flame war:
>
>I live in both Richard Stallman's world (the Open Source community)
>and in the Cypherpunk crypto community.
>
>The two have different goals. RMS is mistaken about appropriate
>licensing for crypto code written by cypherpunks because he thinks the
>goals are the same, when they are not.
>
>The Open Source community seeks maximum spread of free software.
>The Cypherpunk community seeks maximum spread of the use of non-GAKed
>cryptography.
>
>Some members of the Cypherpunk community are happy to have source
>hoarders and such profit in any and all ways from the use of their
>code *IF* it will spread the use of cryptography in the world. They
>are willing to let anyone -- Microsoft, RMS, or anyone else -- use
>their work, even in ways that do not further the objectives of the
>Open Source community, provided it means more non-GAKed cryptography
>is in use by more people.
>
>The Open Source community obviously has different goals. It is seeking 
>free software, not the wide spread of cryptography.
>
>RMS is mistaking his goals for those of the cypherpunk
>community. Their goals are not diametrically opposed, but they are not 
>identical either, and so the sorts of licenses they may want to use
>for the software they create are not necessarily the same.
>
>EAY noted that he stopped distributing under GPL because *he*, the
>author, wanted more people to be stealing his code, thus spreading
>cryptography further. It wasn't a question of random people bitching
>that the GPL didn't let them write proprietary software -- it was THE
>AUTHOR OF THE CODE who wanted people to be able to write proprietary
>software, because he felt that the goal of spreading crypto was more
>important to him than the software freedom issue.
>
>I am in no way saying RMS should stop using the GPL, or attempting to
>say what sort of license is better for a particular author, but it
>should be recognised that there are people who are happy having their
>crypto routines stolen and incorporated into proprietary software --
>who are, in fact, elated when this happens, because it means more
>people will be using cryptographic software -- and that they might not
>find the GPL to be ideal for their goal.
>
>Perry
> 
**********************************************************************
Bruce Schneier, President, Counterpane Systems     Phone: 612-823-1098
101 E Minnehaha Parkway, Minneapolis, MN  55419      Fax: 612-823-1590
           Free crypto newsletter.  See:  http://www.counterpane.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Perry E. Metzger" 
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 10:38:51 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code)
In-Reply-To: <199810051105.HAA13894@germs.dyn.ml.org>
Message-ID: <199810051539.LAA22048@jekyll.piermont.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




My take on the licensing flame war:

I live in both Richard Stallman's world (the Open Source community)
and in the Cypherpunk crypto community.

The two have different goals. RMS is mistaken about appropriate
licensing for crypto code written by cypherpunks because he thinks the
goals are the same, when they are not.

The Open Source community seeks maximum spread of free software.
The Cypherpunk community seeks maximum spread of the use of non-GAKed
cryptography.

Some members of the Cypherpunk community are happy to have source
hoarders and such profit in any and all ways from the use of their
code *IF* it will spread the use of cryptography in the world. They
are willing to let anyone -- Microsoft, RMS, or anyone else -- use
their work, even in ways that do not further the objectives of the
Open Source community, provided it means more non-GAKed cryptography
is in use by more people.

The Open Source community obviously has different goals. It is seeking 
free software, not the wide spread of cryptography.

RMS is mistaking his goals for those of the cypherpunk
community. Their goals are not diametrically opposed, but they are not 
identical either, and so the sorts of licenses they may want to use
for the software they create are not necessarily the same.

EAY noted that he stopped distributing under GPL because *he*, the
author, wanted more people to be stealing his code, thus spreading
cryptography further. It wasn't a question of random people bitching
that the GPL didn't let them write proprietary software -- it was THE
AUTHOR OF THE CODE who wanted people to be able to write proprietary
software, because he felt that the goal of spreading crypto was more
important to him than the software freedom issue.

I am in no way saying RMS should stop using the GPL, or attempting to
say what sort of license is better for a particular author, but it
should be recognised that there are people who are happy having their
crypto routines stolen and incorporated into proprietary software --
who are, in fact, elated when this happens, because it means more
people will be using cryptographic software -- and that they might not
find the GPL to be ideal for their goal.

Perry




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 13:53:35 +0800
To: "Brown, R Ken" 
Subject: Re: Monitoring traffic
In-Reply-To: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F8487@MSX11002>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 9:41 AM -0800 10/5/98, Brown, R Ken wrote:
>This week's New Scientist magazine (p. 6) has a short column about Xacct
>t5hat looks as if the journalists swallowed a press release whole and
>have puked it up almost undigested:
>
>"Using the Internet could become more expensive if service providers
....


"When reached for comment, Crypto Anarchy Institute Director Timothy May
said: "This use of press releases in place of journalists actually
researching stories is of course common." He went on to add: "Get used to
it.""


--Tim May


Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash.
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mark Hahn 
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 11:40:30 +0800
To: "Martinus Luther" 
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19981005123632.009c5740@mail.aosi.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 06:56 AM 10/5/98 PDT, Martinus Luther wrote:
>using your head to think any thoughts we don't want thank. Good Drugs 
>keep you addicted to your job, your country, your government, your boss. 
>The Best Drug is the mortgage.

If you want to condemn the whole damn system we call society, then the
"Best Drug" is to have children. See if that doesn't change your perspective
a bit.

-MpH
--------
Mark P. Hahn                    Work: 212-278-5861
mhahn@tcbtech.com               Home: 609-275-1834
TCB Technologies, Inc (mhahn@tcbtech.com)

Consultant to:
The SoGen Funds	1221 Avenue of the Americas, NY NY




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Brown, R Ken" 
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 12:54:44 +0800
To: "'cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com>
Subject: Monitoring traffic
Message-ID: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F8487@MSX11002>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



This week's New Scientist magazine (p. 6) has a short column about Xacct
t5hat looks as if the journalists swallowed a press release whole and
have puked it up almost undigested:

"Using the Internet could become more expensive if service providers
adopt new software that allows separate billing for emails, downloading
graphics and streaming audio or video".  It desceibes an unlikley
scenario in which ISPs charge more per minute for high-quality video and
less for low-quality or email. I'm not sure the journalist knows the
difference between an ISP and a content provider. 

Yet another business that would be made obsolete by widespread use of
strong encryption.  Unless of course they mean to head that off at the
pass by making ISPs charge more to transfer encrypted packets?

When you look at their website http://www.xacct.com/usage.html you find
a description of what seems like a pretty normal system monitoring
application  (although I'm sure it is wonderfully written) surrounded by
what, when we were young and foolish, we used to call Marketdroid
Waffle:

"XACCTusage Family 

XACCTusage is a multi-source, multi-layer network usage metering and
mediation solution that gives
Network Service Providers (NSPs), including enterprise network
(Intranet) operators, the intelligence to
right-price IP services."

Enough to make your teeth curl.

The names of the people interviewed tickled my spoof detectors as well.
"Anil Uberoi" and "Charles Arsenault" sound distinctly dodgy on this
side of the Atlantic.

Ken Brown




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: me 
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 11:43:24 +0800
To: "Blanc" 
Subject: RE: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!... (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <000c01bdf045$4c5b3f60$7e8195cf@blanc>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19981005124212.00a094c0@mail.ewol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 02:48 AM 10/5/98 -0700, Blanc wrote:
>
>They never have to worry about who has more or less, who is better or
worse, or
>who knows better than anyone what is best for everyone.  It's all been
>pre-established and exists incontrovertibly in their national consumer
database.
>   ..
>Blanc

The above concept is embraced by a vast number of the planets population
and illustrates the ability of rationality to control perception.

----------------------------
"That's entertainment."  - Vlad the Impaler




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 14:22:17 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 8:34 AM -0500 10/4/98, Jim Choate wrote:
>> From: "James A. Donald" 
>> Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
>> Bullshit.  No monopoly has ever happened except by regulation
>That is truly Bullshit.

>Microsoft got to where it is because of a lack of regulation, the abuses of

	Microsoft is nowhere NEAR a monopoly. Yes, they are the largest in
their niche, but they are coming under increasing competition, and even
without government interference in the markets they will come under
increasing competition from Linux, Solaris x86, and possibly MacOS X.

>the aircraft industry  in the 1940-50's that led to regulation at the end of
>the 50's and 60's. The steel industry in the north east in the early 1900's.
>The food packing and garment industries of the north east and pacific coast
>in the 20's through the 50's. The railroad industry in the mid-1800's.

	The railroad industry in the mid-1800's was CAUSED BY GOVERNMENT.

	Try reading that link that Gering posted to Greenspans essay on
Anti-trust: http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html

	I can't speak to the others, but I'd bet that lurking behind each
of them is the Government causing the problems it later seeks to solve with
more legislation.

>Every one of these created a monopolistic market because of a *lack* of
>regulation.

	Wrong. Too much government interference.
--
petro@playboy.com----for work related issues. I don't speak for Playboy.
petro@bounty.org-----for everthing else.      They wouldn't like that.
                                              They REALLY
Economic speech IS political speech.          wouldn't like that.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Steve Mynott 
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 08:22:04 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: Another question about free-markets... (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199810051212.HAA02813@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <19981005141913.A13659@tightrope.demon.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Mon, Oct 05, 1998 at 07:12:55AM -0500, Jim Choate wrote:
> 
> > From: Steve Mynott 
> 
> > On Sun, Oct 04, 1998 at 11:53:28PM -0500, Jim Choate wrote:
> > 
> > > Now in a free-market, by definition, there is no law. What then is the
> > 
> > no in a free market there is no state
> > 
> > there are laws based on natural rights
> 
> Ok, who writes the laws? Who enforces the laws? Who decides what is natural?

whoever in a market by the division of labour finds it profitable will
write and enforce the laws

see David Friedman's

http://www.best.com/~ddfr/Libertarian/Machinery_of_Freedom/MofF_Chapter_29.html

for an explanation of how private courts and police could work

"Natural Law theory rests on the insight... that each entity has
distinct and specific properties, a distinct "nature", which can be
investigated by man's reason"  -- Murray N. Rothbard 

> Remember, we have *NO* participants in a free market other than the producer
> and the consumer. Two, and *only* two, parties are involved.

thats how economic thinking starts, or rather should start, and then
the economy is an array of these individual transactions..

police and courts provide a "middle man" function, so you would need
three participants

-- 
pgp 1024/D9C69DF9 1997/10/14 steve mynott 

    the first duty of a revolutionary is to get away with it.
        -- abbie hoffman




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Raccoon 
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 07:28:54 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re:
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981005190213.00845510@205.83.192.13>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Mon, 5 Oct 1998, Reeza! wrote:

> At 11:12 PM 10/4/98 +0200, Anonymous wrote:
> >At 12:59 PM 10/3/98 -0400, Michael Motyka wrote:
> >>> There is a desert which is 1000 miles across. There is a camel who can
> >carry
> >>> 1000 bananas maximum. The camel eats 1 banana per mile travelled. The
> camel
> >>> has a total of 3000 bananas to begin with. What is the maximum number of
> >>> bananas that the camel can get across to the other side uneaten?
> 
> Are we stipulating that the camel will travel in a straight line?
> Or will it meander a bit, following the path of least resistanct through
> the dunes?

Since we are looking for the best possible result (=the most bananans
moved to the other side), we must assume that the path of least resistance
equals a straight line. This may be improbable, but it is not impossible!
Remember that this is maths, and that we're looking for the best possible
limit.


// RACCOON

      /\/```\ /"""\  |    Web: http://www.dtek.chalmers.se/~d96racon
     ' ^\_/^ \  * ;  | e-mail: d96racon@dtek.chalmers.se 
     `(._ (.) \   \  | adress: Motg. 362 - 91
     <>  `.___/   /  |         412 80 GBG
     `---',--<       |
       `='      




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 14:35:56 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 3:24 PM -0500 10/4/98, Jim Choate wrote:
>Forwarded message:
>
>> Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 12:42:58 -0700
>> From: "James A. Donald" 
>> Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
>
>> Microsoft is not a monopoly.  In servers, where much of their
>> income comes from,
>
>Malarky, MS makes the vast majority of their money off end-user and single
>machine licenses. Look at their quarterly or yearly earning statements.

	Ummm...Ever hear of this little start up in Cupertino called Apple?
Has a couple billion in the bank, net profits last quarter larger than Dell
&etc.

>> Linux is eating their lunch,
>
>It is certainly growing but the fact is that by a factor of orders of
>magnitude commercial Unix'es own that market. When it comes to mission
>critical servers Solaris, HP, & AIX own the market still.

	So M$ STILL doesn't have a monopoly.

>> and the
>> desktop is under continual threat.  For a monopoly to be a
>> monopoly, you not only have to have most of the market, you
>> have to have some means of excluding others, which Microsoft
>> manifestly does not.
>
>Not from a lack of trying on their part and the fact that federal regulators
>stepped in before it became totaly regulated.

	Crap, the Feds stepped in just as market forces were starting to
weaken Microsoft. Linux is starting to eat into the server market, Apple is
coming back out of it's slump, more and more people are starting to realize
home bad M$ is.


>> You are totally deluded.  None of these are examples of
>> monopoly,
>
>Certainly they were. Each and every example listed (and many more) were
>industries which were controlled by a small number of companies whose share
>in the total market was squeezing out competition. The results would have
>been a growing number of buyouts and thinning of competition to the point
>that only one or two companies would have survived.

	Other than the Railroads, which have already been shown to be a
government CREATED monopoly, how was the Aircraft Industry a monopoly? The
GARMENT INDUSTRY?

	Come on Jim, "Put Up Or Shut Up".

> except for the railroad industry where government
>> intervention was for the purpose of creating monopoly, not
>> preventing it.
>
>In the aircraft industry for example, while the number of riders was growing
>very quickly there was a concommitent increase in end-user ticket prices
>that was way out of line with the increased cost of business operations as
>well as a decrease in the overall safety of the industry which was
>exemplified by a increase in the number of air crashes and aircraft who
>couldn't pass maintenance inspections yet continued to fly.

	Doesn't sound like a monopoly issue as much as a saftey issue.
Nothing there looks like a conspiracy to prevent other from entering the
market.


>> The garment and food packing industries were and are a huge
>> network of innumerable tiny shops,
>
>All working for about 5 or 6 companies who actlualy marketed and distributed
>the items. Just get a Dallas Texas phone book for that period (it's a
>distribution hub for the clothing/garment industry even today).

	That is still 5 or 6 companies in competition.

>> and the aircraft industry
>> had several big companies in fierce competition.=20
>
>Yep, in the mid-50's there were like 5 national/international aircraft
>operators and the number of commercial avaition manufacturers selling to the
>national and international carrier market was like 3. There were smaller
>companies like Ryan for example but they were owned by the larger companies
>and eventualy merged into the regular operations.

	What barriers OTHER THAN REGULATORY/LEGAL did they raise to
competitors?
--
petro@playboy.com----for work related issues. I don't speak for Playboy.
petro@bounty.org-----for everthing else.      They wouldn't like that.
                                              They REALLY
Economic speech IS political speech.          wouldn't like that.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mok-Kong Shen 
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 07:31:05 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code)
In-Reply-To: <199810051105.HAA13894@germs.dyn.ml.org>
Message-ID: <3618CA3C.D22851F9@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Rick Campbell wrote:

> I would vastly prefer that people simply place their code in the
> public domain explicitly.

I think it all depends upon the free will of the authors of the codes
to determine under exactly what conditions other people may share their
intellectual properties without paying money. The one may impose
some non-monetary conditions in the hope of achieving some
non-monetary effects in exchange of the work that has been done, while
the other impose no conditions at all. There can be no norm 
in that. After all, it is their codes and the potential users of
the codes may also have different views on that without unanimity.

M. K. Shen




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 14:05:21 +0800
To: cryptography@c2.net
Subject: Java-based Crypto Decoder Ring gets NIST FIPS 140-1 certification
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



As breathlessly reported in DIGSIG :-).

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga

--- begin forwarded text


MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Importance: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4
Date:         Sat, 3 Oct 1998 09:45:19 -0500
Reply-To: Digital Signature discussion 
Sender: Digital Signature discussion 
From: Richard Hornbeck 
Subject:      Java-based Crypto Decoder Ring gets NIST FIPS 140-1 certification
To: DIGSIG@LISTSERV.TEMPLE.EDU

Java-based Crypto Decoder Ring gets NIST FIPS 140-1 certification

INSTEAD OF STORING YOUR PRIVATE KEY IN SOFTWARE ON YOUR PC, KEEP IT IN
HARDWARE, ON YOUR CLASS RING, KEY FOB, MONEY CLIP, WATCH OR ANYTHING ELSE
THAT CAN STORE A 16mm, stainless steel case. According to its Web site
(www.ibutton.com), "the iButtion provides for secure end-to-end Internet
transactions-including granting conditional access to Web pages, signing
documents, encrypting sensitive files, securing email and conducting
financial transactions safely - even if the client computer, software and
communication links are not trustworthy. When PC software and hardware are
hacked, information remains safe in the physically secure iButton chip."
Unlike storing your private key in software on your PC where it can remain
in cache after use, and be retrieved by a hacker, the crypto iButton private
key never enters your PC, so it cannot be intercepted.

In July, the Crypto iButton from Dallas Semiconductor received the NIST FIPS
140-1 "Security Requirements For Cryptographic Modules" certification. The
Crypto iButton provides hardware cryptographic services such as long-term
safe storage of private keys, a high-speed math accelerator for 1024-bit
public key cryptography, and secure message digest (hashing). To date, only
15 hardware products have been validated by the U.S. and Canadian
governments.

According to their press release at:
http://www.dalsemi.com/News_Center/Press_Releases/1998/pr_fips.html, the
Crypto iButton ensures both parties involved in a secure information
exchange are truly authorized to communicate by rendering messages into
unbreakable digital codes using its high-speed math accelerator. The Crypto
iButton addresses both components of secure communication, authentication
and safe transmission, making it ideal for Internet commerce and/or banking
transactions.

The Crypto iButton consists of a physically secure, million-transistor
microchip packaged in a 16mm stainless steel can. Not only does the steel
protect the silicon chip inside from the hard knocks of everyday use; it
also shows clear evidence of tampering by leaving scratch and dent marks of
the intruder. This steel case satisfies FIPS 140-1 Level 2 Tamper Evidence
requirements for physical security.

Note: Within the overall 140-1 certification are various sub-levels that
identify how well the product rates in different categories such as Physical
Security, Environmental Failure Protection, and Tamper Resistance. The sum
of the ratings in the individual categories determines whether it merits
certification.

The iButtion also allows the owner to set an automatic expiration date, to
limit the potential for unauthorized use. Once the built-in clock reaches a
pre-set time, the chip self-expires and requires re-activation by the
service provider before service can be renewed. The service provider can
verify that an individual has possession prior to initial activation or
renewal (re-activation). In this way, a lost or stolen iButton
unconditionally limits the potential for unauthorized use to the remaining
activation time, which can be made arbitrarily short by the iButton holder
or service provider.

According to its Web site, Blue Dot receptors using either the Java
operating system (OS), or a proprietary OS, can be purchased online for $15
each. The receptor plugs directly into the parallel port on a PC, and
includes software for configuring its features. The software also programs
the decoder ring with the private key the first time, and performs any other
administrative functions. Just press the Blue Dot with the iButton (ring,
fob, key ring, etc.) to establish the connection path.

If you know your ring size, you can order Josten's 'Java-powered ring,' or
the 'Digital Decoder Ring,' online. Also available are the 'Fossil Watch,
key ring, or money clip. http://www.iButton.com/DigStore/access.html#jring.
Costs for a single unit range from $45 to $89.

"Unlike a loose plastic card, the iButton stays attached to a carefully
guarded accessory, such as a badge, ring, key fob, watch band, or wallet,
making misplacement less likely. The steel button is rugged enough to
withstand harsh outdoor environments and durable enough for a person to wear
every day. An individual maintains control over their Crypto iButton in yet
another way-a secret Personal Identification Number. If so programmed, the
iButton will not perform computations until its PIN is entered, like a bank
ATM. "

A list of developers and their off-the-shelf applications is at:
http://www.iButton.com/Connections/Catalogs/index.html. Custom, networked,
server-based applications are available, in addition to individual,
standalone PC products. The crypto iButtion is currently being tested by the
USPS for electronic distribution of postage stamps.

The company marketed its iButton products for other non-crypto uses starting
in 1991. A list of current implemented and pilot projects using the product
to simply store and process data around the world is at:
http://www.iButton.com/showcase.html. This includes the mass-transit system
in Turkey, bus passes in China, vending machines in Canada, parking meters
in Brazil and Argentina, and buying gas in Mexico and Moscow.

Richard Hornbeck

www.primenet.com/~hornbeck

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 14:59:37 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 4:01 PM -0500 10/4/98, Jim Choate wrote:
>Forwarded message:
>> Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 11:40:34 -0700
>> From: "James A. Donald" 
>> Subject: Re: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!...
>cases of E. Coli for example would decrease? Why is it that the number of
>deaths in this country from salmonella and related food diseases have
>*decreased* since the industry was regulated in the early 1920's when the
>problem (people getting sick or dying from adulterated foodstuffs) was
>at its peak?

	Freon, or rather cheap refridgeration.


--
petro@playboy.com----for work related issues. I don't speak for Playboy.
petro@bounty.org-----for everthing else.      They wouldn't like that.
                                              They REALLY
Economic speech IS political speech.          wouldn't like that.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 15:09:37 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Another question about free-markets...
In-Reply-To: <199810050453.XAA01444@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 11:53 PM -0500 10/4/98, Jim Choate wrote:
>Milton Friedman won the Nobel price in 1976 in economics. One of the
>questions he asked was:
>
>Do corporate executives, provided they stay within the law, have
>responsibilities in their business activities other than to make as much
>money for their stockholders as possible?
>
>His answer was 'no', they have no responsibility outside of those two
>considerations (ie the law, stockholders expectations of profit).

	The law was a very implicit assupmtion in his question.

	Take the law out of it and ask him again.

	If he gives you the same answer, he is wrong.
--
petro@playboy.com----for work related issues. I don't speak for Playboy.
petro@bounty.org-----for everthing else.      They wouldn't like that.
                                              They REALLY
Economic speech IS political speech.          wouldn't like that.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ian Briggs 
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 17:09:59 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: odd comment
Message-ID: <199810052206.PAA03010@cyberpass.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



A friend of mine works in an IT department
for a major tech company.  Three of the people in
his department were just transfered to their new contract.

They are rewiring some of the network for a highway system
in California that monitors for explosives.

Now, he doesn't know anything more than that.
In California there are several highway stretches that have large
metal telephone poles stretching accross the two right lanes
of a major three lane highway.  On top of the poles are two 
metal boxes about the size large bread boxes.

Now any idea what those boxes are?
and if anyone has heard of this monitoring system and if so
what agency is responsible for this?

Also does anyone know who is responsible for all the cameras
that now monitor the highways?  Almost every overpass in Sacramento
has one that views each stretch of the highway.


-Ian






Welcome to 1984
as with all goverment projects, its a bit late 
and slightly overbudget
	-IB.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 15:14:53 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Another question about free-markets...
In-Reply-To: <199810050453.XAA01444@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 12:58 AM -0500 10/5/98, James A. Donald wrote:
>At 11:53 PM 10/4/98 -0500, Jim Choate wrote:
>> Now in a free-market, by definition, there is no law. What
>> then is the responsibility of businesses other than the
>> pure unadulterated pursuit of profit?
>
>None whatsoever.

	One must also draw the distinction between long term profits, and
this quarters bottom line.

	Things that positively impact this weeks bottom line (say, dumping
PCB's in the local water supply) negatively impact next year/next decades
(all your prospective customers are either dead, or have 3.5 arms, and a
distinct lisp).

>> If this includes lying, denying consumers information, etc.
>> what harm is done, they have fulfilled their responsibility
>> to their shareholders (potentialy quite lucratively)
>
>While there is a sucker born every minute, the strategy you
>describe is for the most part unlikely to be profitable.

	In the _long_ term.

>Fortunately the most cost effective method of eliminating all
>competition is that followed by Alcoa, to deliver a
>satisfactory product at the cheapest possible price.

	Funny how he never talks about that one.



--
petro@playboy.com----for work related issues. I don't speak for Playboy.
petro@bounty.org-----for everthing else.      They wouldn't like that.
                                              They REALLY
Economic speech IS political speech.          wouldn't like that.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 15:36:39 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re:
In-Reply-To: <199810042112.XAA11806@replay.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 4:02 AM -0500 10/5/98, Reeza! wrote:
>At 11:12 PM 10/4/98 +0200, Anonymous wrote:
>>At 12:59 PM 10/3/98 -0400, Michael Motyka wrote:
>>>> There is a desert which is 1000 miles across. There is a camel who can
>>carry
>>>> 1000 bananas maximum. The camel eats 1 banana per mile travelled. The
>camel
>>>> has a total of 3000 bananas to begin with. What is the maximum number of
>>>> bananas that the camel can get across to the other side uneaten?
>>>
>>>My camels don't understand/can't eat fractional bananas.
>>
>>Why are bananas quantized in the presense of camels?  Is this
>>a quantum-computing thing?
>>
>
>Are we stipulating that the camel will travel in a straight line?
>Or will it meander a bit, following the path of least resistanct through
>the dunes?

	If the camel is going to meander, following some perceived "path of
least resistence", then could it's back and forths be used as a source of
entropy?
--
petro@playboy.com----for work related issues. I don't speak for Playboy.
petro@bounty.org-----for everthing else.      They wouldn't like that.
                                              They REALLY
Economic speech IS political speech.          wouldn't like that.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Richard.Bragg@ssa.co.uk
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 10:26:43 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: the camel
Message-ID: <80256694.0053C3EA.00@seunt002e.ssa.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Camels eat first and carry afterwards so stuff a thousand bananas down its
neck and get it to carry 1000 across.  The remaining 1000 are to be left to
ferment to make a delicious drink for the camel handler who has just
persuaded a camel to eat 1000 bananas.



            ___________________________________________________

The information contained in this electronic mail message is confidential.
It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is
addressed and others authorised to receive it.  If the reader of this
message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
use, copying, dissemination or disclosure of this information is strictly
prohibited.
            ___________________________________________________





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Sunder 
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 16:03:39 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Canadian RCMP's & government workers lose vacation over Y2K
Message-ID: <36193391.316C57@brainlink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



http://www.ottawacitizen.com/national/981003/1910271.html




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 18:19:50 +0800
To: j orlin grabbe 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Orlin  http://www.aci.net/kalliste/ and, of       
course,http://www.aci.net/kalliste/bw1.htm

I got a big kick reading http://www.jya.com/tristrata.htm

Especially,

  While a one-time pad is, in fact, theoretically unbreakable when
used   properly, the details of using it properly make it entirely
unusable    in any modern commercial or military setting. 

And 

  This kind of system was used for the U.S.-Soviet teletype "hot line"  
and it is occasionally used for paper ciphers and spies, but that's   
it.

Codes and Cryptography by Dominic Welsh references on page 126 Sandia's
Gus Simmons as the source of the above.

  (And if users can exchange these keys, why can't they just
exchange     the messages?)

I think the reason is that the users want to exchange keys for messages
to be sent at a later time, perhaps electronically.

But we have to stick to the position.

Does the algorithm pass the Black and White test or not?  No buts.

Let's all hope for settlement of this UNFORTUNATE matter before it
gets WORSE.

bill

Title: Black and White Test of Cryptographic Algorithms




	

	
		
			
				
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Hohensee 
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 12:04:50 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: Another question about free-markets... (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199810051212.HAA02813@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <3618FDA1.5A8F936A@is9.nyu.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate wrote:
> 
> Forwarded message:
> 
> > Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 10:03:25 +0100
> > From: Steve Mynott 
> > Subject: Re: Another question about free-markets...
> 
> > On Sun, Oct 04, 1998 at 11:53:28PM -0500, Jim Choate wrote:
> >
> > > Now in a free-market, by definition, there is no law. What then is the
> >
> > no in a free market there is no state
> >
> > there are laws based on natural rights
> 
> Ok, who writes the laws? Who enforces the laws? Who decides what is natural?

Everyone.  Ever heard of common law?

> Remember, we have *NO* participants in a free market other than the producer
> and the consumer. Two, and *only* two, parties are involved.

This is incorrect.

Everyone is involved, in that there is generally more than one producer,
and almost always more than one consumer.  If the general body of
consumers feel that producer X is doing something unethical, or
otherwise badly, they will not do business with that producer --either
for fear of being cheated, or simply because they feel that it would be
morally incorrect to support him.  If it happens that there is only one
producer, then the general sentiment of the consumers will create a
large demand for an alternative supply of whatever producer X produces. 
This generally leads to the diminishment of X's profits, which either
drives him out of business entirely, or forces him to change his ways.

This is how it works in a free market/society.  Of course, if it were a
governed society, producer X would buy up a bloc of politicians, and get
them to either pass laws prohibiting or handicaping his potential
competition, or get them to give him a big fat subsidy, which can be
used to drive competitors out of business.  The net result: everyone is
forced to buy from producer X, even though everyone knows he's slime.

Is the argument any more clear now?

Michael Hohensee




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Sunder 
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 16:16:26 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: [Fwd: [Spooks] Letter from a CIA officer with a gripe]
Message-ID: <36193687.2F47ED74@brainlink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



To: Spooks 
Subject: [Spooks] Letter from a CIA officer with a gripe
From: Bob Margolis 
Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 22:30:07 -0500
Reply-To: Bob Margolis 
Sender: owner-spooks@qth.net

February 26, 1998

Senator Lauch Faircloth
317 Hard Senate Office Building
United States Senate
Washington, DC 20510

Senator Faircloth:

I am very concerned with recently published reports, which conclude 
that the Central Intelligence Agency was not involved in drug activity 
in connection with their activities in Latin America.

As a former Central Intelligence Agency officer I had direct knowledge 
of matters which may be relevant in this matter.

During the period of January 1986 until July 1990 I was assigned as the 
lead Computer Systems Analyst Programmer to a facility which was 
initially called Project Koral during the building phase in 1985, but 
upon activation was known as BYJURY within the Office of Communications 
(DA/OC) although this designation was later changed to OC/MIAMI. Our 
callsign was KKN39 and our routing indicators was RUEG and RUEGMI. 
Because it operated under the guise of being a U.S. Army facility it 
was also known as the United States Army Regional Communication 
Agency/National Communications System and telegraphically as RRF MIAMI. 
However, at no time did the facility ever support any DOD efforts. The 
primary mission of this facility was to support the activities of the 
Continuity of Government project which was identified by project 
cryptonyms as CHALLIS, FESTIVE, FENCER, FEDDER, PEGASUS and ZEUS and in 
this role the name of the facility was Atlantic Relay Facility I (ARF-
1). The overall umbrella organization for this effort was initially 
known as NEISS, later as NEISO and finally as SIO and at one point had 
space located in the basement of the Tysons Corner mall in Vienna, 
Virginia.

 The facility itself was located on U.S. Government property, which was 
known locally as the Richmond Naval Air Station. This same property was 
also the location of a University of Miami Primate Research Center, a 
Marine Corps Reserve unit, the Central Intelligence Facility and 
another NEISO activity which was identified as a unit of the U.S. Army 
7th Signal Corps but which was known with NEISO as CPIC-East.

The OC/MIAMI facility was staffed with approximately 15 people. A 
facility manager, a senior watch officer, a station engineer, a 
programmer analyst, three electronic technicians, an administrative 
assistant and 7 communications officers. Because the activities in 
support of the NEISO operations was minimal in peacetime, the facility 
was used by the Office of Communications as a major relay to provide 
linkages between several CIA facilities in Southern Florida (LA/MIAMI, 
FR/MIAMI, Miatech, FBIS Key West) and several other sites in the 
Caribbean and South America. In addition we also periodically provided 
telecommunications service to other CIA facilities whose primary relay 
was the Office of Communications relay facility near Culpepper, 
Virginia which was known for years as YOGURT but was later known as 
BYJAMS and still later as OC/BRANDY with a callsign of KKN50 and a 
routing indicator of RUES.

By now I hope you realize that I did have access to the information 
which I am about to convey. The information given above can be verified 
by the CIA, although they will be extremely reluctant to do so since 
the extent of the NEISO project was withheld from Congress

About a 18 months after my arrival at the facility we were informed 
that we would be the primary relay facility for a small station which 
was established on Swan Island in support of a variety of operations 
which were being conducted as part of our support for the CIA's efforts 
in Nicaragua. This facility was centered on an airstrip, which was used 
as a base of operations for pilots who were dropping supplies to the 
rebels, which the CIA was supporting.

The communications setup for this facility was something that we called 
a flyaway package. Basically it consisted of a HF transmitter/receiver 
a PC-based communications terminal and a KG-84 encryption device.

The KG-84 was considered to be one of the most secure cryptographic 
devices in use at that time. It came into universal use by the CIA 
after it became known that the Walker's had compromised the KW-7 in 
1985. When the encrypted signal was received at BYJURY, it was 
decrypted through one of our KG-84 devices and from there the signal 
was passed to the SPARS message switch in unencrypted form. However, 
much of the traffic, which was transmitted on this circuit, was super-
enciphered with One-Time-Tape (OTT). This was extremely unusual under 
the circumstances since electronic encryption was considered quite 
adequate for secure CIA communications. I know from personal experience 
as a communications officer prior to becoming a computer programmer 
that except for annual exercises to maintain proficiency in one-time-
tape techniques, there was essentially no usage of one-time-tape for 
circuits which had secure communications circuitry. The fact that this 
particular station was using one-time-tape over a secure circuit was 
noted by all of the communicators at BYJURY and while we did not have 
any means whereby to decipher the messages further, it was broadly 
speculated that there was something happening on Swan Island which was 
so sensitive that it could not be entrusted to normal electronic 
encryption. When you consider that most Talent Keyhole and Rapport data 
was only afforded normal encryption, the volume of one-time-tape usage 
by this station can only be viewed as extremely noteworthy.

If Congress decides to investigate this matter further, I also need to 
add that the CIA will probably state that the messages, which were 
transmitted to and receive from this station are no longer held. This 
is totally inaccurate. All message traffic into and out of CIA 
Headquarters is held in local storage for several weeks and after that 
time is no longer routinely available. However, for many years now 
there have been backup copies of the traffic which are transmitted on a 
daily basis to an off-site storage facility at Station A of the 
Warrenton Training Center where it is transferred to magnetic tape for 
permanent archives. It is highly likely that the CIA will deny that 
this archiving takes place because even the head of the Office of 
Communications probably does not realize that this is occurring since 
this is considered a low-level routine administrative task and quite 
often CIA managers above the GS-14 level simply do not have any 
understanding or knowledge of the actual working of the communications 
network. If the CIA does deny that the archiving occurs you may wish to 
use the power of congress to pursue the matter until they admit that 
the records do exist. While the actual magnetic tapes may have been 
replaced by more permanent storage such as CDROMS, I can pretty much 
assure you that the storage does exist.

I am providing this information because after the extremely harsh and 
discriminatory treatment, which I experienced during the period of 
1989-1992, I no longer feel any sense of loyalty to the CIA nor do I 
feel that I have any obligations to them. They were wrong in treating 
me the way that they did and demonstrated that they preferred to take 
the word of a senior manager who habitually drank alcohol while 
performing in his position and they preferred to protect those who were 
engaged in sexual improprieties. On top of that they also manipulated 
the federal court system to ensure that they received decisions which 
favored their point of view. There are apparently several federal 
judges and U.S. Attorney's who have profited enormously by making 
decisions, which prevented my case from ever being adequately heard in 
court.

If congress is interested I could also provide information which would 
tend to indicate that senior officials within the Office of 
Communications engaged in misuse of government funds and in which 
official books were manipulated to make it look as if money was being 
spent for official purposes when, in fact, it was being spent for the 
benefit of senior managers in a fraudulent and wasteful manner.

After all of these years I still remain angry over the treatment I 
received. When I became a government employee I fully intended to serve 
an entire career in government service, but when I was faced with 
treatment which was so harsh, punitive and discriminatory and when all 
recourse was denied to me by the so-called statutory Inspector-General 
of the CIA and his minions, I was placed in a position in which I had 
to leave government service for my own protection since I could no 
longer predict the capricious actions by those who held the power to 
make the live of an employee miserable. They were wrong in what they 
did and there is simply no excuse for permitting managers to have such 
power to destroy a human being. I can never forgive their actions and 
at this point the only way that I can deal with my anger is to 
communicate exact details of matters which I experienced as an employee 
in hopes that I can bring shame to the Agency. As a human being I 
deserved a certain level of dignity and I received none. Government 
agencies should be held to a standard whereby no employee is 
discriminated against for any reason.

Please contact me if any additional information is needed on this 
subject. All information in this letter is in the public domain and may 
be disseminated freely.






Kenneth C Stahl

---
Submissions should be sent to spooks@qth.net
To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe spooks" to majordomo@qth.net




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Reeza! 
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 04:08:52 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re:
In-Reply-To: <199810042112.XAA11806@replay.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981005190213.00845510@205.83.192.13>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 11:12 PM 10/4/98 +0200, Anonymous wrote:
>At 12:59 PM 10/3/98 -0400, Michael Motyka wrote:
>>> There is a desert which is 1000 miles across. There is a camel who can
>carry
>>> 1000 bananas maximum. The camel eats 1 banana per mile travelled. The
camel
>>> has a total of 3000 bananas to begin with. What is the maximum number of
>>> bananas that the camel can get across to the other side uneaten?
>>
>>My camels don't understand/can't eat fractional bananas.
>
>Why are bananas quantized in the presense of camels?  Is this
>a quantum-computing thing?
>

Are we stipulating that the camel will travel in a straight line?
Or will it meander a bit, following the path of least resistanct through
the dunes?

Reeza!

	
"I'm desperately trying to figure out why kamikaze pilots wore helmets."
						- Dave Edison




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 20:47:03 +0800
To: ukcrypto@maillist.ox.ac.uk
Subject: keep up-wind - you think we are KIDDING?
Message-ID: <36197418.19E5@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Subject: 
        Effects of Nukes
  Date: 
        Mon, 05 Oct 1998 09:47:43 -0600
  From: 
        bill payne 
    To:    gap@igc.apc.org, tom carpenter - halcyon
,
        jeff debonis <76554.133@compuserve.com>,
lawya@lucs-01.novell.leeds.ac.uk,
        senatorlott@lott.senate.gov, senator_leahy@leahy.senate.gov,
conrad_burns@burns.senate.gov,
        larry_craig@craig.senate.gov, senator@wyden.senate.gov,
dpcintrn@osd.pentagon.mil,
        conrad_burns@burns.senate.gov, senator_gorton@gorton.senate.gov,
senatorlott@lott.senate.gov,
        john_ashcroft@ashcroft.senate.gov, michigan@abraham.senate.gov,
sam.brownback@.senate.gov,
        senator@dorgan.senate.gov, senator_stevens@stevens.senate.gov,
senator@hutchison.senate.gov,
        olympia@snowe.senate.gov, senator@hollings.senate.gov,
senator@inouye.senate.gov,
        wendell_ford@ford.senate.gov, senator@rockefeller.senate.gov,
john_kerry@kerry.senate.gov,
        senator@breaux.senate.gov, senator@bryan.senate.gov,
HERBERT.RICHARDSON@hq.doe.gov,
        BILL.RICHARDSON@HQ.DOE.GOV, pcassel@rt66.com, gregh@scene.com
    CC: 
        senator@wellstone.senate.gov, jy@jya.com,
senator_mccain@mccain.senate.gov,
        grassley , cynthia mckinney
,
        c paul robinson , art morales
, cypherpunks@toad.com,
        ukcrypto@maillist.ox.ac.uk


Monday 10/5/98 7:01 AM

Tom Carpenter http://www.whistleblower.org/

I hope your week-end conference went well.

I think I will in Pullman in a few weeks.  And, therefore, almost a
DOWNWINDER.

When I was a prof at Washington State University 1966-79 we traveled to
Spokane.

I always wondered why I saw so many sick kids in Spokane.  

I think we all now know a possible reason.

Albuquerque Journal Sunday 10/4/98

Heath Effects of Nuke Sites Targeted

DOE's Richardson
to Review Reports

The Associated Press

DENVER - U.S. Energy Secr-
ary Bill Richardson says he will
investigate reports of health prob-
lems among people living near or
working at federal nuclear weapons.
plants and research facilities in 11
states.

  A total of 410 people told a news-
per, The Tennessean, they are
suffering from unexplained illness-
including tremors, memory toss,
fatigue and a variety of breathing,
muscular and reproductive prob-
lems. Their doctors cannot explain
why they are sick.

  No direct link has been estab-
lished between the illnesses and the

  "I want to be absolutety
  sure we're erring on the
  side of making sure there
  are no problems."

  U.S.  ENERGY SECRETARY
         BILL RICHARDSON

  Department of Energy sites. But
doctors, scientists and lawmakers
say it's large enough to warrant a
comprehensive study to try to find
the cause.

"My views we ought to get to the
bottom of this," Richardson told the
newspaper after meeting Friday
with residents near the Rocky Flats 
nuclear site in Denver. "I want to be
absolutely sure we're erring on the
side of making sure there are no
problems."

  Scientists have been concerned
for decades about radiation from
nuclear production and its link to
cancer But no one has ever looked
into noncancerous illnesses.

  During a 22-month investigation,
the newspaper found ill people at 13
DOE sites in Tennessee, Colorado,
South Carolina, New Mexico, Idaho,
New York, California, Ohio, Ken-
tucky, Texas and Washington.

  The Energy Department had ear-
lier said it does not plan to take a
comprehensive look at the issue.

http://www.tennessean.com/special/oakridge/part3/index.shtml

Here is some other relevant information about the U.S. goverment,
Department of Energy, and nukes from Wierd History 101  by  
John Richard Stephens
http://www.thegrid.net/fern.canyon/weird/contents.htm

[A]nd then there are the legitimate concerns of
terrorists using nuclear weapons. This risk is
emphasized by the many incidents where the
smugglers of nuclear components have been
caught. But let's not get into that.
  Ever since the bombs were dropped on
Hiroshima and Nagasaki, people have worried
about having one of these horrors dropped on
them. Since the demise of the Soviet Union, this
threat has become more nebulous, making it a bit
more difficult for people to focus their fears.16 As
a result, their fears have diminished somewhat
even though the threat has probably increased
because of the increase in countries that have the

16  As of 1997, Russia and the United States still had about
seven thousand strategic (or long rang) warheads each.
Roughly half of these could be launched with a few
minutes notice.

bomb and the advances in technology that enable
a bomb to be made from fissionable material the
size of a beer can, while a bomb that can level a
city can now be made to fit into a knapsack. But
during the Cold War, the threat seemed much
more immediate.
  Partly in response to these fears, the govern-
ment implemented programs to teach people how
they could protect themselves in the event of a
nuclear attack. Early efforts downplayed the risks.
One amazing example of this is the pamphlet
Survival Under Atomic Attack. Published by the
U.S. government in 1950, this official booklet
proclaims, "You can SURVIVE. You can live
through an atom bomb raid and you won't have to
have a Geiger counter, protective clothing, or spe-
cial training in order to do it." And then it goes on
to give such advice as, 'After an air burst, wait a
few minutes then go help to fight fires. After
other kinds of bursts wait at least 1 hour to give
lingering radiation some chance to die down."

Discussing the role of the IRS in a nuclear attack,
the Internal Revenue Service Handbook (1976)
says, 

  "During a state of national emergency
  resulting from enemy attack, the essential
  functions of the Service will be as follows: (1)
  assessing, collecting, and recording taxes. . ."

  Where is the Best Place to Go?
  If you live in a State where there is danger
from sudden storms like cyclones or hurricanes,
you may have a "cyclone cellar" or something
similar. If so, you have a shelter that will give
excellent protection against atomic bombs.
  [People soon realized this wasn't quite true,
and they began building bomb shelters.]

  "All you have to do to protect yourself from
  radiation is go down to the bottom of your
  swimming pool and hold your breath."

    -David Miller Department of Energy
      spokesperson

 [S]o there you have it. You're now prepared to
survive nuclear warfare. Think you can handle it?
  Actually, it's very hard to believe that, after five
years of intensively studying the effects of atomic
bombs and radiation at Hiroshima, Nagasaki, and
various tests involving military personnel as
human guinea pigs, the government didn't have a
better idea of the dangers.

  "My fellow Americans. I am pleased to tell you I
  just signed legislation which outlaws Russia
  forever. The bombing begins in five minutes."

  -President Ronald Reagan during a sound
  check for a live radio show, 1984

  [I]n one of the tests in 1953, U.S. soldiers were
placed near the explosion to test how well they
could function after a blast. Sergeant Reason
Warehime was one of fifty soldiers who were in a
trench two miles from ground zero. They wore no
protective gear. "The first thing I saw" he later
reported, "was a real bright light like a flashbulb
going off in my face, but it stayed on. It was so
bright that even with sunglasses on, my hands
over my eyes, and my eyes closed, I could actually
see the bones in my hands. I felt as if someone was
hugging me really tight, and my whole body was
being compressed. All of a sudden, I heard an
awful noise and felt an intensely hot wind blowing
and the ground rocking like an earthquake. The
dust was so thick I could not see the man right
next to me. The air was so hot that it was difficult
to breathe. . . . Since the fireball was directly over
our heads, there is no doubt in my mind that we
were in the 'stem' of the mushroom cloud."
  A voice over a loudspeaker ordered them to
advance toward ground zero. The sandbags along
the top of their trench were on fire. On reaching
a bunker that was just over a mile from ground
zero, they found eight men. "Those guys were
sick as dogs and heaving their guts out," he said.
Soon they began finding spots where the sand had
melted into glass. After reaching the crater, they
turned back and eventually were picked up by
two radiation specialists in full protective gear.
On the way back, Warehime and some of his
companions started throwing up. A few months
later; all of his hair fell out, his teeth began to rot,
and he was diagnosed as sterile. Eventually, he
developed cataracts, lung cancer; his bones
became brittle, and he had to use crutches to get
around. Even though radiation is known to cause
these things, in the  1980s, the Veterans
Administration insisted his problems weren't
caused by this bomb and denied disability to him
and many others like him. An estimated 250,000
military personnel were exposed to radiation in
experiments between 1946 and the 1970s. Many
additional civilians were also used as guinea pigs
in radiation tests. Very few have ever received any
compensation for or assistance with the perma-
nent damage caused to them.
  Warehime was exposed to a forty-three-
kiloton (not megaton) bomb. It turned out to be
almost twice as powerful as the physicists had
calculated it would be and was about twice as
powerful as those used on Hiroshima and
Nagasaki. Its radiation cloud spread across the
nation from Nevada, fogging undeveloped film
as far away as New Jersey.

Morales and I are in the planning stage to put up a web site.

John Young has been encouraging us to do this.

Reason is that we are going after the judges and clerks in the
Tenth circuit who awarded our court wins to Sandia we, in fact,
we won.  Now that John Young got the docket for us.

Also I will be doing a Privacy Act violation defamation lawsuit against
Sandia, DOE, EEOC, Lockheed Martin, AT&T, and named defendants.

We will have several FORUMS.

1 Pro se litigation against the U.S. Federal government
2 Microsoft Assembler mixed-language programming
3 80C32 hardware, Forth high-level and assembler programming.

at least.

John Young started 3. http://jya.com/f86/whpf86.htm

1 and 2 may be compatible.  

Microsoft distributes buggy software while Gates, Paul Allen, and Balmer 
become some of the richest men in the world.

Perhaps, with some legal encouragement, the above three should spend
some of 
their money getting the bugs out of their software.

To kick-off 1 and 2 I am thinking of posting a complaint against
Microsoft for 
having scammed me by not included a 32 bit linker with MASM 6.11 I just
bought.
If we don't settle, of course.  I will check e-mail in a few minutes to
see
how progress to get the 32 bit linker is coming.

Microsoft appears to want me to buy a C compiler or Windows NT  SDK
[software
development kit] to get the 32 bit linker.

With all this scary stuff of effects of nukes, let's hope Rep. McKinney
and Senator
Grassley are making progress to help get NSA to post the requested
documents.
http://jya.com/whpfiles.htm

And, too, let's ALL hope for settlement so that we can move on to other
constructive
projects.  Before things GET WORSE.

Later
bill
Subject: 
        one-time pad
  Date: 
        Mon, 05 Oct 1998 17:06:53 -0600
  From: 
        bill payne 
    To: 
        j orlin grabbe ,
conrad_burns@burns.senate.gov, senator_gorton@gorton.senate.gov,
        senatorlott@lott.senate.gov, john_ashcroft@ashcroft.senate.gov,
michigan@abraham.senate.gov,
        sam.brownback@.senate.gov, senator@dorgan.senate.gov,
senator@wyden.senate.gov,
        senator_stevens@stevens.senate.gov,
senator@hutchison.senate.gov, olympia@snowe.senate.gov,
        senator@hollings.senate.gov, senator@inouye.senate.gov,
wendell_ford@ford.senate.gov,
        senator@rockefeller.senate.gov, john_kerry@kerry.senate.gov,
senator@breaux.senate.gov,
        senator@bryan.senate.gov, nmir@usa.net, Info@IranOnline.com,
info@jebhe.org, Mehrdad@Mehrdad.org,
        cypherpunks@toad.com, ukcrypto@maillist.ox.ac.uk,
wpi@wpiran.org, abd@CDT.ORG,
        merata@pearl.sums.ac.ir, dpcintrn@osd.pentagon.mil,
abumujahid@taliban.com,
        schneier@counterpane.com
    CC: 
        jy@jya.com, john gilmore , Emile Zola
, lennon@email.nist.gov,
        itl-bulletin@nist.gov


Orlin  http://www.aci.net/kalliste/ and, of       
course,http://www.aci.net/kalliste/bw1.htm

I got a big kick reading http://www.jya.com/tristrata.htm

Especially,

  While a one-time pad is, in fact, theoretically unbreakable when
used   properly, the details of using it properly make it entirely
unusable    in any modern commercial or military setting. 

And 

  This kind of system was used for the U.S.-Soviet teletype "hot line"  
and it is occasionally used for paper ciphers and spies, but that's   
it.

Codes and Cryptography by Dominic Welsh references on page 126 Sandia's
Gus Simmons as the source of the above.

  (And if users can exchange these keys, why can't they just
exchange     the messages?)

I think the reason is that the users want to exchange keys for messages
to be sent at a later time, perhaps electronically.

But we have to stick to the position.

Does the algorithm pass the Black and White test or not?  No buts.

Let's all hope for settlement of this UNFORTUNATE matter before it
gets WORSE.

bill
---
laszlo http://www.qainfo.se/~lb/crypto_ag.htm

Sayonara

1 crypto ag
2 wiegand wires

There are some good business opportunities.  If we live that long.

WE believe that the OTHER SIDE is NOT happy about what happened.

NSA Hoe Cryptogate /JI  October 5, 1998  http://www.jya.com/crypto.htm


---
 False Security  
  
		        William H. Payne	  
                                     
  			Abstract  
  
"Why 130 million Wiegand cards are in use throughout the world .  
  
The most secure of all access card technologies.  
  
HID Wiegand cards are virtually impossible to counterfeit... any attempt
to   
alter them destroys them! ...  
  
Since no direct contact with the card is required, they are totally
enclosed,  
making them absolutely immune to the elements and a frustration of  
vandals. ...   
  
     	The secrets to the security of an  
  	HID Wiegand card are those little  
      	enclosed wire strips. Once corrupted,  
  	they won't work."  
  
Access Control & SECURITY SYSTEMS INTEGRATION, September 1998  
www.prox.com  http/www.securitysolutions.com 
http://www.securitysolutions.com/  
  
*** Bullshit.*** False! - in the EDITED edition, of course  
  
	Fumble, Bumble and Inept Funds Electronic Lock Breaking at  
	Sandia National Laboratories.  
  
Zola http://zolatimes.com/  
  
Would this be worth some bucks?  
  
Want another FUN article?   
  
http://www.zolatimes.com/v2.29/bw1.html  
http://www.aci.net/kalliste/bw1  
  
I would need a BRILLIANT EDITOR to help polish  
the ms.  http://www.aci.net/kalliste/


Counterfeiting Wiegand Wire Access Credentials
     
                                   Bill Payne
     
                                 October 16,1996
     
                                    Abstract
     
                  Wiegand wire access credentials are easy and
                  inexpensive to counterfeit.
     
        Access Control & Security Systems Integration magazine, October
        1996 [http://www/securitysolutions.com] published the article,
     
             Wiegand technology stands the test of time
     
             by PAUL J. BODELL, page 12
     
             Many card and reader manufacturers offer Wiegand (pronounced
             wee-gand) output.  However, only three companies in the
             world make Wiegand readers.  Sensor Engineering of Hamden
             Conn., holds the patent for Wiegand, and Sensor has licensed
             Cardkey of Simi Valley, Calif., and Doduco of Pforzheim,
             Germany, to manufacture Wiegand cards and readers. ...  A
             Wiegand output reader is not the same thing as a Wiegand
             reader,  and it is important to understand the differences.
     
                In brief, Wiegand reader use the Wiegand effect to
             translate card information around the patented Wiegand
             effect in which a segment of a specially treated wire
             generates an electronic pulse when subjected to a specific
             magnetic field.  If the pulse is generated when the wire is
             near a pick-up coil, the pulse can be detected by a circuit.
             Lining up several rows of wires and passing them by a cold
             would generate a series of pulses.  Lining up two rows of
             wires - calling on row "zero bits" and the other "one bits"
             - and passing them by two different coils would generate two
             series of pulses, or data bits.  These data bits can then be
             interpreted as binary data and used to control other
             devices.  If you seal the coils in a rugged housing with
             properly placed magnets, and LED and some simple circuitry,
             you have a Wiegand reader.  Carefully laminate the special
             wires in vinyl, and artwork, and hot-stamp a number on the
             vinyl, and you have a Wiegand card.
     
             IN THE BEGINNING
     
               Wiegand was first to introduce to the access control
             market in the late 1970s.  It was immediately successful
             because it filled the need for durable, secure card and
             reader technology.
               Embedded in the cards, Wiegand wires cannot be altered or
             duplicated. ...
     
        Bodell's Last statement is incorrect.
     
        Tasks for EASILY counterfeiting Wiegand wire cards are
     
        1    Locate the wires inside the card to read the 0s and 1s.
     
        2    Build an ACCEPTABLE copy of the card.
     
        Bodell's clear explanation of the working of a Wiegand card can
        be visualized
     
             zero row    |     |   |
     
             one row        |          |
     
             binary      0  1  0   0   1
             representation
     
        Solutions to Task 1
     
             A    X-ray the card
     
             B    MAGNI VIEW FILM,  Mylar film reads magnetic fields ...
                  Edmunds Scientific Company, catalog 16N1, page
                  205, C33,447  $11.75
     
        is placed over the top of the Wiegand card.
     
        COW MAGNET,  Cow magnetics allow farmers to trap metal in the
        stomachs of their cows.  Edmunds, page 204, C31,101 $10.75
        is placed under the card.
     
        Location of the wires is easily seen on the green film.
     
        Mark the position of the wires with a pen.
     
        Next chop the card vertically using a shear into about 80/1000s
        paper-match-sized strips.
     
        Don't worry about cutting a wire or two.
     
        Note that a 0 has the pen mark to the top.  A 1 has the pen mark
        at the bottom.
     
        Take a business card and layout the "paper match"-like strips to
        counterfeit the card number desired.
     
        Don't worry about spacing.  Wiegand output is self-clocking!
     
        Tape the "paper-match - like" strips to the business card.
     
        Only the FUNCTION of the card needs to be reproduced!
     
                                     History
     
        Breaking electronic locks was done as "work for others" at Sandia
     
        National Laboratories beginning in 1992 funded by the Federal
        Bureau of Investigation/Engineering Research Facility, Quantico,
        VA.
     
        The FBI opined that this work was SECRET/NATIONAL SECURITY
        INFORMATION.
     
        Details of the consequences of this work are covered in
     
             Fired Worker File Lawsuit Against Sandia
             Specialist Says He Balked When Lab Sought Electronic
             Picklock Software, Albuquer Journal, Sunday April 25, 1993
     
             State-sanctioned paranoia,  EE Times, January 22, 1996
     
             One man's battle,  EE Times, March 22, 1994
     
             Damn the torpedoes,  EE Times, June 6, 1994
     
             Protecting properly classified info,  EE Times, April 11,
             1994
     
             DOE to scrutinize fairness in old whistle-blower cases,
             Albuquerque Tribune, Nov 7 1995
     
             DOE boss accelerates whistle-blower protection,  Albuquerque
             Tribune, March 27, 1996
     
             DOE doesn't plan to compensate 'old' whistle-blowers with
             money, Albuquerque Tribune September 27, 199




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mok-Kong Shen 
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 12:43:35 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: propose: `cypherpunks license'
In-Reply-To: <199810051105.HAA13894@germs.dyn.ml.org>
Message-ID: <3619125B.79B9DEEA@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Werner Koch wrote:
> 
> Mok-Kong Shen  writes:
> 
> > I think it all depends upon the free will of the authors of the codes
> > to determine under exactly what conditions other people may share their
> > intellectual properties without paying money. The one may impose
> > some non-monetary conditions in the hope of achieving some
> > non-monetary effects in exchange of the work that has been done, while
> 
> Please read the GPL before talking about it!
> 
> The GPL covers freedom and not price.

I suppose you misunderstood me. Did I say price? I expressed that 
the context is one for free of charge (without paying money).

M. K. Shen




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Alan Olsen 
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 22:38:15 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re:
In-Reply-To: <199810042112.XAA11806@replay.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981005203144.042e9bd0@clueserver.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 11:12 PM 10/4/98 +0200, Anonymous wrote:
>
>At 12:59 PM 10/3/98 -0400, Michael Motyka wrote:
>>> There is a desert which is 1000 miles across. There is a camel who can
>carry
>>> 1000 bananas maximum. The camel eats 1 banana per mile travelled. The
camel
>>> has a total of 3000 bananas to begin with. What is the maximum number of
>>> bananas that the camel can get across to the other side uneaten?
>>
>>My camels don't understand/can't eat fractional bananas.
>
>Why are bananas quantized in the presense of camels?  Is this
>a quantum-computing thing?

No, it's a Perl thing. ]:>

---
|      Bill Clinton - Bringing back the Sixties one Nixon at a time!     |
|"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmermann unites all| Disclaimer:         |
| mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!"  | Ignore the man      |
|                                                  | behind the keyboard.|
|         http://www.ctrl-alt-del.com/~alan/       |alan@ctrl-alt-del.com|




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 14:04:50 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199810051855.UAA14551@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 04:19 PM 10/5/98 +0100, Richard.Bragg@ssa.co.uk wrote:
>Camels eat first and carry afterwards so stuff a thousand bananas down its
>neck and get it to carry 1000 across.  The remaining 1000 are to be left to
>ferment to make a delicious drink for the camel handler who has just
>persuaded a camel to eat 1000 bananas.

You print 1000 certificates for bananas, and require the camel to accept them.
Then you make him carry all 3000 across the desert.  Then you print three
million
certificates, and declaring his certificates devalued, hand him three
bananas, one of which you keep as income tax.  You also keep half a banana
in banana-transfer-taxes.










  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 01:32:58 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: US Rights Violations
In-Reply-To: <199810060346.XAA01265@camel8.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 8:38 PM -0700 10/5/98, John Young wrote:
>We offer Amnesty International's devastating critique
>of US human rights violations, due to be released
>in hardcopy tomorrow:
>
>   http://jya.com/usa-rfa.htm  (365K)
>
>It recounts in voluminous, documented, gruesome detail
>what American justice is truly like in prisons, jails, precinct
>houses, on the highways and in the streets.
>
>After this it's going to difficult for the US to preach human
>rights violations to other countries.

By the way, "The New Yorker" on the newstands has a major article by
Seymour Hersh explaining why many experts think the U.S. bombing of the
"nerve gas factory" [sic] in Khartoum was unjustified, and the bombings of
the Afghan sites were unproductive (even if possibly more justifiable).

And there was a report I saw flying by on this list or on the Usenet to the
effect that several of the top military commanders who should have been
consulted were not, and that Louis Freeh, who was in Nairobi on the
investigation, was not consulted. (I don't know how credible this report
is.)'

Many nations have condemned the "cowboy antics." (Normally I'm not too
sympathetic to charges that the U.S. is behaving like a "cowboy," but in
this case it appears to be an apt description.)

If it turns out that Clinton acted rashly to escape his own Cigargate
problems, and that the normal chains of command were bypassed, then his
head will really roll.

We may have to actually hang the fucker for high treason. (Though I guess
the new PC method is lethal injection.)

The "Wag the Dog II" war in Albania (coincidence?) is just icing on the cake.

--Tim May

Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash.
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 22:56:03 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: US Rights Violations
Message-ID: <199810060346.XAA01265@camel8.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



We offer Amnesty International's devastating critique
of US human rights violations, due to be released
in hardcopy tomorrow:

   http://jya.com/usa-rfa.htm  (365K)

It recounts in voluminous, documented, gruesome detail 
what American justice is truly like in prisons, jails, precinct 
houses, on the highways and in the streets.

After this it's going to difficult for the US to preach human 
rights violations to other countries.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Reeza! 
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 09:06:50 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Another question about free-markets...
In-Reply-To: <199810050453.XAA01444@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981006000836.0087fd40@205.83.192.13>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 11:53 PM 10/4/98 -0500, Jim Choate wrote:
>Milton Friedman won the Nobel price in 1976 in economics. One of the
>questions he asked was:
>
>Do corporate executives, provided they stay within the law, have
>responsibilities in their business activities other than to make as much
>money for their stockholders as possible?
>
>His answer was 'no', they have no responsibility outside of those two
>considerations (ie the law, stockholders expectations of profit).
>
>Now in a free-market, by definition, there is no law. What then is the
>responsibility of businesses other than the pure unadulterated pursuit of
>profit? If this includes lying, denying consumers information, etc. what
>harm is done, they have fulfilled their responsibility to their shareholders
>(potentialy quite lucratively) and broken no law. Within this environment it
>follows that a primary strategy for such executives is the elimination of
>*all* competition. And since there is no law other than the measure of profit
>all can be justified.

Just because he won a Nobel prize does not mean he was correct, it means
those bestowing the prize on him agreed with him.

business/economic right vs wrong is a different game from
moral right vs wrong.

for instance, suppose there was a great demand for analog watches with
luminous dials. would it be right to flood the market with luminous dials
that were also highly radioactive, because those isotopes were less
expensive than luminous substances that were not radioactive? (this
presupposes that no rules were broken AFA selling watches with radioactive
luminous dials).

are you saying that the proper business solution is to throw public safety
to the wind, and never mind possible consequences of wrist cancer 10 or 20
years down the road? what would the companies bottom line be after the
ravages of the eventual class action suit?

Reeza!

	
"I'm desperately trying to figure out why kamikaze pilots wore helmets."
						- Dave Edison




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 02:53:19 +0800
To: Raccoon 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981006004529.00827b20@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 02:21 PM 10/5/98 +0200, Raccoon wrote:
>On Mon, 5 Oct 1998, Reeza! wrote:
>
>> At 11:12 PM 10/4/98 +0200, Anonymous wrote:
>> >At 12:59 PM 10/3/98 -0400, Michael Motyka wrote:
>> >>> There is a desert which is 1000 miles across. There is a camel who can
>> >carry
>> >>> 1000 bananas maximum. The camel eats 1 banana per mile travelled. The
>> camel
>> >>> has a total of 3000 bananas to begin with. What is the maximum number of
>> >>> bananas that the camel can get across to the other side uneaten?
>> 
>> Are we stipulating that the camel will travel in a straight line?
>> Or will it meander a bit, following the path of least resistanct through
>> the dunes?
>
>Since we are looking for the best possible result (=the most bananans
>moved to the other side), we must assume that the path of least resistance
>equals a straight line. This may be improbable, but it is not impossible!
>Remember that this is maths, and that we're looking for the best possible
>limit.

No, this isn't maths, this is camels, and they'll give you as much
resistance as they feel like, and *you* may be looking for the most
bananas moved across the desert, but the camel's perfectly happy to
sit here and eat all the bananas here, crossing 0 miles of desert,
or dump you 50 miles out in the desert and come back and eat the
bananas.

But other than the PERL book, what's it got to do with cypherpunks?
Just that bananas are related to Bill Clinton?

				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Neels Kriek" 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 01:14:22 +0800
To: 
Subject: Re: Camel
Message-ID: <002201bdf0f0$a4e61000$92060cd1@alien>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



OK, here is my solution ;)

Load 1000 bananas on the camel. Make him walk 990 miles. 10 banana left.
Get 10 unemployed people.  Make them carry 200 bananas each.  Since no-one
can eat more than 1 banana per 10 miles(at a sustained rate anyways) make
them walk 990 miles.  1010 bananas left.  Load 990 on the camel. Each guy
has 1 banana left for the last 10 miles.  Camel eats 10 bananas on last 10
miles. QED 990 bananas on the other side.

or

Make camel walk a mile.  Make him stop.  Walk back and carry all 2000
bananas left to current spot.  Put one banana on camel to get 1000 again.
Make him walk 1 mile again and repeat. At other side unload 999(or 1000 if
you were clever enough to carry the extra one that the camel eats on the
last mile in your pocket) bananas. Leave one on the camel for the mile back.
Walk camel back a mile .  load 1000 bananas.  Unload 999 bananas. You should
now have 1998 bananas.

or

Buy a damned 4X4.  We all know camels don't like bananas and would rather
bite you than carry 1000 of them.

Regards ;)




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Gambler@msn.com
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 00:56:47 +0800
To: 
Subject: Best online casino odds
Message-ID: <199810060540.WAA14966@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





The best odds and easy cashier options at any online casino is 
at:

 Virtual
Casino

Great games, graphics, and sound too.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Brown, R Ken" 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 03:48:56 +0800
To: Martinus Luther 
Subject: RE: importance of  motivation
Message-ID: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F8489@MSX11002>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Mark Hahn wrote:

>>using your head to think any thoughts we don't want thank. Good Drugs 
>>keep you addicted to your job, your country, your government, your boss. 
>>The Best Drug is the mortgage.

> If you want to condemn the whole damn system we call society, 
> then the "Best Drug" is to have children. See if that doesn't 
> change your perspective a bit.

But the poster mentioned a daughter...

Ken Brown




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "James A. Donald" "Brown, R Ken" 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 08:22:43 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: <199810061322.GAA05777@proxy4.ba.best.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> > I do have trouble with the idea of the garment industry
> > being monopolistic. About 2 miles from where I'm typeing
> > this, in  Whitechapel and Spitalfields in the East End of
> > London, street after street is packed with small
> > sweatshops, "import export" businesses, tiny fashion 
> > houses 

Jim Choate:
> Could you get a phonebook and make a list of the
> sweatshops. Enumerate them and then select 10% (if that
> isn't too many) and find out how many and to whom they sew
> their garments for?

They sew for fashion houses, and there are more fashion
houses than anyone can count.

Even if there was only a single redistributor, there would be
no monopoly, since the cost of entry to the business of
specifying garments, buying them, transporting them, and
reselling them is completely insignificant.

Jim's present day "monopolies" are as utterly fantastic as
his past monopolies. 

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     AQQ4m5gWiSF/xJOyvQy7KPjabjDdEir3CLICtAtG
     46+3JIjNxZp7bEJXNFOzcCPyLHbMGc054WKXwyqLb
-----------------------------------------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because 
of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this 
right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.


http://www.jim.com/jamesd/      James A. Donald




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Brown, R Ken" 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 06:45:12 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
Message-ID: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F8493@MSX11002>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Petro wrote:

[...snip...]

> Other than the Railroads, which have already been shown to
> be a government CREATED monopoly, how was the Aircraft 
> Industry a monopoly? The GARMENT INDUSTRY?
> Come on Jim, "Put Up Or Shut Up".

Jim can look after himself, but the aircraft industry is certainly
monopolistic.  There are only 2 serious players in the market for large
long-haul airliners, Airbus (explicitly founded and subsidised by
government)  and Boeing (probably now turning a real profit  but in the
past cross-subsidised from military spending). Whether or not either of
these firms would now exist without government subsidy is unknowable.
Whether or not the monopolistic situation would exist if there had been
no government subsidy is also unknowable.  

I do have trouble with the idea of the garment industry being
monopolistic. About 2 miles from where I'm typeing this, in  Whitechapel
and Spitalfields in the East End of London, street after street is
packed with small sweatshops, "import export" businesses, tiny fashion
houses 

[...snip...]

>>All working for about 5 or 6 companies who actlualy marketed and
>> distributed the items. Just get a Dallas Texas phone book for
>> that period (it's a distribution hub for the clothing/garment
industry
>>  even today).

> That is still 5 or 6 companies in competition.

It looks as if the only monopolies you recognise are global ones where
one big company supplies most of the market for some good, worldwide.
At that level there are damn few monopolies - MS, Boeing, the Murdoch
empire. But a monopolistic situation develops when one supplier, or a
group of suppliers in cartel can control the market in some locality.
Like the breweries in Britain a few years back - there were (and are)
hundreds of breweries but the "big six" had carved up large areas of the
country between them. So if you went to a bar in one area you got
Watney's beer, in another, Bass.   

The real problem with monopoly or cartel is not high prices - many
monopolies choose to charge low prices - it is lack of freedom.  A
monopolisitic supplier of some good has a measure of political power.
They can make people behave in ways they might not otherwise behave. A
monopolisitic employer of labour has *huge* political power.  





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 07:37:40 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Garment industry.....
Message-ID: <199810061240.HAA07266@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Hi,

Sorry, I'm going to have to back out for the next few days because of work
load (I've barely had time to read all the traffic), but ...

To answer a qeuestion about the garment industry being monopolistic.

Go back, read the original post on that issue *AGAIN*. Pay particular
attention to the *PERIOD OF TIME I SPECIFICALY MENTIONED*. If you actualy
read it all the way through, and slowly so you can comprehend it, you will
find that your protestations about the industry being monopolistic *today*
are irrelevant. My point was focused on 60-80 years *IN THE PAST*. In
particular the 1920's and 30's. (If you're going to scream "foul", at least
be at the correct yard line on the field)

My mention of the phone book implied you'd have to go to the library and get
a *PERIOD* phonebook (that was my mistake, any true anarcho-capitalist or
free-market maven is not likely to actualy use real-world examples - they're
so messy). And yes, they had phones then, you could even have them in any
color as long as it was black.

Though the point *CAN* be made that even today sweatshops are continouly
being found in places like Los Angeles, Houston, Chicago, etc. Just check
your local newspaper. The reason that these are important is that they are
indicators of a tendency of manufacturers to cut costs/overhead to the bone
when left to their own wiles. This is a *VERY* negative indicator for those
who feel that even an unregulated garment industry can exist in a regulated
market, let alone a free-market.

Again, businesses are run by people with the express intent of making money,
in many cases at whatever cost to their employees and society as a whole.
With this sort of psychological tendency the argument that free-markets will
work is flawed. A commen comment in business classes and boardrooms today is
to 'dominate the market'. That means *eliminate competition*. *THAT* means
create a monopoly if at all possible and the laws to the contrary (which I
hae yet to see anyone bring up a priori in these situations) be damned. Of
course it should be pointed out that it's good legal and business practice
*NOT* to mention these so that it can't be used against one as a
premeditated intent. Something Microsoft seems to have forgotten in their
raft of internal memo's about specificaly kludging DrDos.

Another point I made several weeks to a couple of months ago regarded
companies who *help* their competition in order to limit their ability to
enter into specific markets as competitors seems to have born fruit. Over
the last few weeks several internal documents from Microsoft were released
(check the CNN and other archives) which seem to indicate a clear intent by
Microsoft to *help* Novell and Apple with technology with the express intent
of keeping them out of niche or target markets as competitors. Economic
slight of hand...

Course that isn't going to stop you from wailling for the dead (though could
you keep it down so I can sleep since the temperature around here has
finaly broken and it's not 90F at midnite).


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 07:49:12 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810061253.HAA07347@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: "Brown, R Ken" 
> Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
> Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 06:37:43 -0500 

> I do have trouble with the idea of the garment industry being
> monopolistic. About 2 miles from where I'm typeing this, in  Whitechapel
> and Spitalfields in the East End of London, street after street is
> packed with small sweatshops, "import export" businesses, tiny fashion
> houses 

This is perfect if you don't mind being a participant...

Could you get a phonebook and make a list of the sweatshops. Enumerate them
and then select 10% (if that isn't too many) and find out how many and to
whom they sew their garments for?

> It looks as if the only monopolies you recognise are global ones where
> one big company supplies most of the market for some good, worldwide.
> At that level there are damn few monopolies

Remember, you can't dominate a market that can't be saturated and you can't
saturate a local market unless you find a mechanism to keep outside
competition from moving in. Currently this is only possible in very strongly
regulated markets in control economies. This implies that, at least today
because of communications and transportation improvement, only markets that
are global (though it might also work on a national level) can be dominated.
That is an interesting aspect I hadn't hit on so far. I'll add it to the mix
and see what brews up...

Though, it does occur to me that the fact that OS/2 has a stronger faction
in Europe than in N. and S. America in relation to Microsoft may be an
indication that continental saturation is possible. Might be explained by
the fact that most businesses are continental and not international in scope
of sales.

I've got to go back to work now...I'll check in as I get the chance...


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 08:13:21 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Another potential flaw in current economic theory...
Message-ID: <199810061317.IAA07423@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Hi,

It occurs to me that there is another potential flaw in current economic
theory and business practice.

Currently (ala Friedmann) the parties that reap the benefit of a succesful
business are the shareholders, this is currently seen to exclude the
employees in many cases/companies.

This approach undervalues the business worth of the employees commitment to
the business.

A more reasonable approach (and one that might make free-markets more
workable, though not by itself) is to consider the employees shareholders
even if they don't hold a single piece of stock. And no, their paychecks are
not sufficient.

Consider, another way to look at a business' goals is "to make every
shareholder a millionare so they don't have to work at anything else". What
business do you know has the specific goal of making their employees (all
the way down to the janitor) sufficiently wealthy from their commitment to
the business so that at some point they don't have to work any more either
(and we are NOT talking about some measly 401k retirement program)?

What would the impact be to the current business models if we include this
axiomaticaly?


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 08:15:04 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Free Market Monopolization Theory...
Message-ID: <199810061319.IAA07486@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Hi,

Here is the note that I made regarding the saturation of free market
economies.

Note that this is several months old and I haven't been diligent in keeping
it fully up to date...

Forwarded message:

> X-within-URL: http://einstein/ravage/free.market.monopolization.html

> This is the theory in its current working version:
> 
> An unregulated (free-market) economy will inherently monopolize when, but
> not necessarily only if, the following are present:
> 
>  -  the commen assumption by current free market models that consumers
>     are rational is irrational. A consideration of succesful marketing
>     mechanisms and human psychology will clearly demonstrate that
>     consumers are at best partialy rational. This is the fault in all
>     anarchy models (eg crypto-anarchy), they assume in an axiomatic
>     fashion that all participants will cooperate for not only their
>     individual best interest but the cooperatives best interest without
>     sufficient recognition that these may in many cases be in conflict.
>     It is the same failing every form of government without a clear and
>     proscribed list of individual and state rights and limits has, the
>     assumption that some minimal set of behaviours or goals will satisfy
>     all participants in all cases. The theory 'What is best for all is
>     best for the one' is false.
> 
>  -  the importance of cooperation for mutual benefit that is axiomatic
>     in current free market theories is false. Mathematicaly the prisoners
>     paradox provides maximum payoff when defection occurs at a relatively
>     high rate and in a random pattern. A primary goal of any business is
>     not to ensure the survival of itself and it competitors but rather to
>     eliminate competition through more succesful strategies. A rational
>     consumer will act irrationaly at times because it is in their long
>     term best interest. Therefore the distinction between rational and
>     irrational consumers is false.
> 
>  -  the market is saturated, in other words the number of consumers at
>     any given time are equal to or less than the service providers ability
>     to provide that service (or resource). This means the long-term survival
>     of firms is a function of retained market share and raw resource share
>     control/ownership.
> 
>  -  the technology and/or start-up costs are high in material and
>     intellectual factors. This minimizes the potential for new providers
>     to start up. Providers will also require non-disclosure and other
>     mechanisms to reduce sharing of information and cross-communications
>     except under controlled conditions. Expect an increase in certifications
>     and implimentation standards required to do business with the more
>     succesful of these providers.
> 
>  -  an individual or small group of service providers have a small but
>     distinct efficiency advantage in technology, manufacturing, or
>     marketing. Over a long-enough time this market advantage will grow
>     and as a result widen the 'technology gap' between firms.
> 
>  -  expect the most efficient firms to share their profit with the
>     critical intellectual contributors. This further reduces the
>     problem of cross-communication and new provider start-up.
> 
>  -  expect to see the more successful providers to join in co-ops with
>     the less succesful providers. This will be under the surreptitous
>     goal of 'developing technology'. It's actual goal will be to cause
>     these smaller firms to commit resources to such enterprises. As soon
>     as it is strategicaly advantagous the primary providers will break-off
>     the co-op. This has the effect of further reducing the ability of the
>     smaller providers to react in a timely manner to market changes or
>     develop new technology due to resource starvation.
> 
>  -  expect to see the less efficient providers to combine in an effort
>     to reap the benefits of shared market share and resources. Unless
>     this partnering provides a more efficient model and there is sufficient
>     time for that efficiency to develop these new providers will eventualy
>     fail or be joined with other providers.
> 
>  -  expect to see the primary provider buy those less efficient providers
>     that don't fail completely. These purchases will be as a result of
>     some new or unexpected technology that will significantly increase
>     the market share of the primary provider -or- it will be with the
>     goal of eliminating this secondary technology and forcing those
>     market shares to do without or use the primary providers technology.
> 
>  -  initialy prices for services will be low to promote purchasing but
>     as providers obtain larger market shares their prices will increase
>     over time and out of step with inflation and other market forces in
>     order to widen the profit gap. The strategy is one of 'use it or
>     starve'.
> 


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: James Glave 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 10:40:03 +0800
To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
Subject: Lycos Acquires Wired Digital
Message-ID: <199810061540.IAA20105@hardly.hotwired.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



http://www.wired.com/news/news/business/story/15437.html

Lycos Acquires Wired Digital 
6:00 a.m.  6.Oct.98.PDT

In a move that continues the trend of consolidation in the Internet
industry, Web search and community firm Lycos has acquired Wired Digital,
the parent company of Wired News, for approximately US$83 million in Lycos
stock. Lycos said in a statement that the combined traffic of both
companies will allow Lycos, already the second most visited Web index
service, to reach more than 40 percent of Web users. 

Tuesday's acquisition coincides with the introduction of "The Lycos
Network," a collection of service, news, and community sites that now
includes Wired Digital properties Wired News, the HotBot search engine, and
the Webmonkey developer site, in addition to existing Lycos sites
Lycos.com, WhoWhere, Tripod, and others. 

According to Relevant Knowledge, Wired Digital attracts nearly five million
unique visitors a month. 

The acquisition is scheduled to close by the end of the calendar year and
is subject to Wired shareholder approval. Lycos (LCOS) will also assume
Wired Digital's stock option plan. 

Under the deal, Wired Digital will continue to operate from its San
Francisco, California, office as a business unit of Lycos, and Beth
Vanderslice, president of Wired Digital, will report to Lycos CEO Bob Davis. 

The Wired Digital brands will remain distinct operating units of Lycos,
which Lycos said would allow the company to reach multiple Web audience
segments. 

For example, Lycos said in a statement that Wired Digital's HotBot search
engine attracts a "tech-savvy Web veteran," while Lycos.com serves a
broader audience. According to Media Metrix, the two search engines attract
distinct audiences, with only 20 percent overlap between the two. 

The Lycos Network and Wired Digital have already taken steps to share each
other's content and services. Wired News is available on the headline page
of Lycos.com, while Lycos' Angelfire home pages and MailCity e-mail
applications are now being offered to HotBot users. 

Lycos search offers links to HotBot and other Wired Digital properties
through top keyword searches. Further, Webmonkey's Web developer tutorials
and resources will be available to Tripod and Lycos.com homepage communities. 

In May of this year, Wired Ventures, the former parent company of Wired
Digital, sold Wired magazine to Advance Magazine Publishers. 

Copyright (c) 1994-98 Wired Digital Inc. All rights reserved.




James Glave, News Editor, Wired News, http://www.wired.com  (415) 276-8430




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Burnes 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 09:48:35 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: Another potential flaw in current economic theory...
In-Reply-To: <199810061317.IAA07423@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Tue, 6 Oct 1998, Jim Choate wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> It occurs to me that there is another potential flaw in current economic
> theory and business practice.
> 
> Currently (ala Friedmann) the parties that reap the benefit of a succesful
> business are the shareholders, this is currently seen to exclude the
> employees in many cases/companies.
> 

Actually not.  There are quite a few business that have employees as
shareholders.  Most shares of companies are reasonably priced and
easy enough to get a hold of.  Selling them on the other hand is
not so straightforward.

> This approach undervalues the business worth of the employees commitment to
> the business.

Sounds Marxist to me.  Your percentage of equity in anything is
proportional to the risk level you take.  The employee risks none
of their own capital so cannot legitimately expect to be rewarded
with stock.  The employee is free to leave at any time and thus
discontinue their only investment in the company, their day to day
presense.

Of course that does not preclude the employer from offering stock
as an incentive to long term commitment or as an enticement to stay
when the market takes a downturn etc.  In that case the employee
is then taking a risk -- basically the opportunity cost of moving
to a more lucrative situation (one of which is working for himself
and becoming an "evil robber baron").

> 
> A more reasonable approach (and one that might make free-markets more
> workable, though not by itself) is to consider the employees shareholders
> even if they don't hold a single piece of stock. And no, their paychecks are
> not sufficient.

Hmmmm.  That would work like a charm when it comes to paying dividends.

> 
> Consider, another way to look at a business' goals is "to make every
> shareholder a millionare so they don't have to work at anything else". What
> business do you know has the specific goal of making their employees (all
> the way down to the janitor) sufficiently wealthy from their commitment to
> the business so that at some point they don't have to work any more either
> (and we are NOT talking about some measly 401k retirement program)?

What the business does it hire them so they don't have to risk their
own capital.  Of course the labor/socialist view is that they are
being exploited.  I encourage all workers who think the "from each
according to their abilities to each according to their needs" model
works well to emigrate to Russia.  As PJ O'Rourke says, "there they
boil stones for soup".  Go to China and see what kind of "profit
sharing" deal they will make you.  Better yet, try to become a 
prosperous self-employed person.

> 
> What would the impact be to the current business models if we include this
> axiomaticaly?
> 

Ask Marx.  Apparently you don't think capitalist models work.

jim

More PJ O'Rourke...

"And here is another shock.  Professor Samuelson, who wrote the early
editions [of "Economics"] by himself, turns out to be almost as much of a
goof as my friends and I were in the 1960s.  'Marx was the most
influential and perceptive critic of the market economy ever,' he
says on page seven.  Influential, yes.  Marx nearly caused World War III.
But perceptive?  Samuelson continues: 'Marx was wrong about many things
... but that does not diminish his stature as an important economist.'
Well, what would?  If Marx was 'wrong about many things' *and* screwed
the baby-sitter?"



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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 08:51:39 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Garment industry.....
Message-ID: <199810061352.JAA04269@panix7.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



   >   From: Jim Choate 
   >
   >   To answer a qeuestion about the garment industry being monopolistic.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 09:35:00 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Microchip implants to foil VIP kidnaps
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Delivered-To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
From: wtberry@sprintmail.com
To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 20:07:28 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Subject: IP: Microchip implants to foil VIP kidnaps
Sender: owner-ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
Precedence: list
Reply-To: wtberry@sprintmail.com

Source: Electronic Telegraph, Issue 1229,  6 October 1998

Microchip implants to foil VIP kidnaps
By Bruce Johnston in Rome

ITALIAN dignitaries who fear being kidnapped are having
microprocessor homing devices planted in their bodies so police can
track them down if they are abducted.

The microchips - called Sky-Eyes - were originally developed for
intelligence use by Israeli researchers. Rome's La Repubblica
newspaper described the latest development as a "biological
adaptation" of the Global Positioning System, which is already in use
to protect luxury cars from being stolen.

Sky-Eyes are sold by a company called Gen-Etics, which has
patented the device for private use but which is cautious about
supplying further details, in order to protect its clients.

Sky-Eyes are said to be made of "synthetic and organic fibre". They
reportedly run on such a small amount of energy that this can be
"borrowed" from the human body. The chip is supposed to be
invisible to both the naked eye and to X-rays. A person who carries it
is supplied with an eight-digit code by the company. He, or she, is
advised to divulge this only to next of kin or a trusted legal
representative.

In case of the person's disappearance, those in possession of the
code are supposed to contact the company's control centre, so that
the kidnapped victim's whereabouts may be pinpointed, and the
police informed. The Sky-Eye is said to have a margin of error of just
150 yards. Kidnapping is still common in Italy.

One recent victim, Giuseppe Soffiantini, an elderly northern
industrialist, was wary when asked if he would buy one. At the
weekend he said: "As they also know about the discovery, the
kidnappers will find a counter system to use against it. They are
treacherous."

During his long captivity, his kidnappers cut off pieces of his ears and
sent them to his family. Mr Soffiantini, was released earlier this year
after a Ł2 million ransom was paid. He said: "But if the microchip
worked, then of course I'd get one.

(c) Copyright of Telegraph Group Limited 1998.







**********************************************
To subscribe or unsubscribe, email:
     majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com
with the message:
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**********************************************
www.telepath.com/believer
**********************************************

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 10:20:08 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Another potential flaw in current economic theory... (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810061524.KAA07928@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 08:51:21 -0600 (MDT)
> From: Jim Burnes 
> Subject: Re: Another potential flaw in current economic theory...

> > It occurs to me that there is another potential flaw in current economic
> > theory and business practice.
> > 
> > Currently (ala Friedmann) the parties that reap the benefit of a succesful
> > business are the shareholders, this is currently seen to exclude the
> > employees in many cases/companies.
> > 
> 
> Actually not.  There are quite a few business that have employees as
> shareholders.  Most shares of companies are reasonably priced and
> easy enough to get a hold of.  Selling them on the other hand is
> not so straightforward.

This doesn't effect the premise under standard economics that the
responsibility of managers is to the shareholders *exclusively* in regards
profits and business operations.

What I am positing is the potential effects of including employees as part
of that sphere of responsibility *without* explicit stock holding by the
emplyees.

You're trying to turn apples into oranges.

[other stuff deleted]


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 13:52:17 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Web TV with 128b exported
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981006110801.0088a430@m7.sprynet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/981005/ca_microso_1.html

MOUNTAIN VIEW, Calif., Oct. 5 /PRNewswire/ -- Microsoft Corp.'s (Nasdaq:
MSFT - news) WebTV Networks today announced it is the first U.S. company to
obtain government approval to export nonkey recovery-based 128-bit-strength
encryption for general commercial use. WebTV Networks pioneered low-cost
access to the Internet, e-mail, financial services and electronic shopping
through a television set and a standard phone line. 

The WebTV(TM) Network service, combined with the WebTV-based Internet
terminals and receivers, is the first communications system permitted by
the U.S. government to provide strong encryption for general use by
non-U.S. citizens in Japan and the United Kingdom. Such strong encryption
allows Japanese and United Kingdom subscribers of WebTV to communicate
through the WebTV Network (both within national borders and
internationally) without fear of interception by unauthorized parties. 

etc...









  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 13:52:10 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: advances in imaging sensors
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981006111747.00890b50@m7.sprynet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




There was an article in a recent EETimes about a new type of very fast
imaging sensor, whose circuitry provides for very short exposures, which may
find uses in consumer items.

I was thinking that very fast image grabbers could be used to identify
moving people, e.g., in their cars at an airport, or even on the street.
The performance limit will be the sensitivity of the pixels and available
light.  But motion blur goes away.

(In my part of Calif, there are video cameras mounted on signalling poles
or streetlights in wealthy suburbs, for 'traffic monitoring' reasons.  Images
from them (as released to the public) are wide-angle, and people can't be
ID'd.
But things change.)












  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Burnes 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 12:18:09 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: Another potential flaw in current economic theory... (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199810061524.KAA07928@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Tue, 6 Oct 1998, Jim Choate wrote:

> Forwarded message:
> 
> > Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 08:51:21 -0600 (MDT)
> > From: Jim Burnes 
> > Subject: Re: Another potential flaw in current economic theory...
> 
> > > It occurs to me that there is another potential flaw in current economic
> > > theory and business practice.
> > > 
> > > Currently (ala Friedmann) the parties that reap the benefit of a succesful
> > > business are the shareholders, this is currently seen to exclude the
> > > employees in many cases/companies.
> > > 
> > 
> > Actually not.  There are quite a few business that have employees as
> > shareholders.  Most shares of companies are reasonably priced and
> > easy enough to get a hold of.  Selling them on the other hand is
> > not so straightforward.
> 
> This doesn't effect the premise under standard economics that the
> responsibility of managers is to the shareholders *exclusively* in regards
> profits and business operations.
>

Hmmm.  You imply that the employees and employers interests are not
the same.  The whole idea is to make a profit.  Out of those
profits the employees are payed the salaries they use to keep
their families in beer and bedclothes.  What other sort of interest
do you suggest the company should have?  They already get significant
benefits in insurance etc.  Many employees already have the option
to buy shares.  Certainly this is the case in publically traded
companies -- many publically traded companies offer these same
shares at a discount to employees.  

Any other sort of interest would simply induce a market distortion
in the cost of investment capital.

The market detects socialism as damage and routes around it.

The entire market would never do this voluntarily, so by definition any
distortion would have to be induced in a centrally managed economy.

By definition socialism.

But look at the bright side.  We already have people who think
they can centrally manage the economy.  They've certainly made
inroads.

jim





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 12:59:56 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Another potential flaw in current economic theory... (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810061803.NAA08378@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 11:19:54 -0600 (MDT)
> From: Jim Burnes 
> Subject: Re: Another potential flaw in current economic theory... (fwd)

> Hmmm.  You imply that the employees and employers interests are not
> the same.  

Obviously this so.

> The whole idea is to make a profit.

There is MUCH more involved than simply making a profit.

[irrelevant material deleted]

> Any other sort of interest would simply induce a market distortion
> in the cost of investment capital.

Demonstrate please.

> The market detects socialism as damage and routes around it.

Whoa horsey. I didn't say a damn thing about any third party regulatory
agency getting invovled here. Don't start trying to change the rules in the
middle of the game.

> The entire market would never do this voluntarily, so by definition any
> distortion would have to be induced in a centrally managed economy.

Demonstrate.

> By definition socialism.

Wrong. Socialism is the belief that property is best managed and owned by
the government. This is within the context of a free market. This means that
the *ONLY* two parties involved are the producers and consumers. I am
discussing an alternative approach to business management.

Fascism is the belief that property should be owned by private individuals
but managed by governments.

Capitalism is the belief that property should be owned and managed by the
individual. Note that this definition doesn't prevent 3rd party regulatory
bodies, but they neither own or manage the activity, only limit its' scope.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 06:18:20 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: odd comment
Message-ID: <361A794B.4912@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Sounds like a potential urban legend or at least a misnaming of some
comprehensible system.

> A friend of mine works in an IT department
> for a major tech company.  Three of the people in
> his department were just transfered to their new contract.
>
> They are rewiring some of the network for a highway system
> in California that monitors for explosives.
>
What are the techniques that could be used for detecting conventional
materials? I can't think of anything likely to work through a vehicle
panel on a highway at 65 mph. Doesn't mean there isn't such a system. I
guess a neutron counter or other radiation detector might be useful for
spotting the scary new  SUPERTERRORISTS.

> On top of the poles are two 
> metal boxes about the size large bread boxes.
>
> Now any idea what those boxes are?
>
If they have plastic windows they could be speed measurement devices.
I'd be interested in driving by some, are there some examples that are
closer to Pleasanton? You can always ask your highway department
representative - they might talk before thinking even if it's something
TOP SECRET.

Mike




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 06:24:08 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: RE: Another potential flaw in current economic theory... (fwd)
Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A193A7A1F@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate
> Wrong. Socialism is the belief that property is best managed 
> and owned by the government.

Utopian socialism/communism believed that property is best managed and
owned by the people -- the people as some abstract collective entity aka
proletariat aka BORG. The dictatorial government is the agent of the
proletariat to abolish individual rights and transition to communist
utopia where government is no longer needed.

Of course actual socialism in mixed economies and communism in command
economies bear little resemblance to Marx's delusions.

	Matt




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 06:26:57 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A193A7A20@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate wrote:
> Remember, you can't dominate a market that can't be saturated 
> and you can't saturate a local market unless you find a 
> mechanism to keep outside competition from moving in. Currently 
> this is only possible in very strongly regulated markets in 
> control economies.

By golly Jim you almost got it.

The only problem is your statement that one can dominate "saturable"
markets without some artificial "mechanism." If you mean dominate by
market share, then sure that is possible. But that in itself is not bad,
ALCOA dominated via low prices and high efficiency. Domination in the
bad sense is to be immune from the laws of supply and demand, and hence
have arbitrary power over the market -- that is the definition of a
coercive monopoly. You will find that that is not possible without an
artificial barrier to competition.

> Though, it does occur to me that the fact that OS/2 has a 
> stronger faction in Europe than in N. and S. America in 
> relation to Microsoft may be an indication that continental 
> saturation is possible.

The conclusions I would draw from that are IBM as the former market
giant had a very strong International infrastructure, channels and
reputation. Since the US market is the principle industry producer, it
was more competitive and less dominated by IBM. Microsoft, therefore,
had an easier time in an already competitive US market than breaking in
overseas. They also had the underdog phenomenon going for them here, the
local competitive market wanting to break IBM's dominance. The fact that
OS/2 utterly flopped in the US and found some adopters overseas is
credit to IBMs international reputation and little else.

	Matt




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 06:42:12 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A193A7A21@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Brown, R Ken wrote:
> Jim can look after himself, but the aircraft industry is 
> certainly monopolistic. There are only 2 serious players 
> in the market for large long-haul airliners, Airbus..and
> Boeing

First of all the majority of the market to which they are selling is
anything but free. Each government has a monopoly on their military, and
many have a monopoly on their commercial airlines as well. Government
aren't bound by the same survival rules as consumers, they are able to
irrationally spend as the can simply extort more money.

Despite this very strong market distortion, competition for defense
contracts had been rather competitive in the US, with the recent
consolidation due to shrinking demand (note they cannot seek other
markets freely to compensate). And despite the strong market
distortions, Boeing makes a very slim profit margin on commercial
aircraft (~3%) competing with Airbus.

The private aircraft industry has had a terrible time not for lack of
demand, but because of rampant irrational and overzealous liability
claims. This has created a very limited number of vendors and highly
inflated prices.

Again, none these are natural effects of the free market.

> The real problem with monopoly or cartel is not high prices
> - many monopolies choose to charge low prices - it is lack 
> of freedom.

So you would force people to pay higher prices so can have more choices?
You would force people to support inefficient competitors?

> A monopolisitic supplier of some good has a measure 
> of political power.

Political power gums at the mean end of a gun, what political power do
monopolies have and how?

	Matt




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 12:50:39 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: camels and bananas, for some reason.
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981006004529.00827b20@idiom.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 12:59 PM 10/3/98 -0400, Michael Motyka wrote:
> There is a desert which is 1000 miles across. There is a camel who can 
> carry 1000 bananas maximum. The camel eats 1 banana per mile travelled.
> The camel has a total of 3000 bananas to begin with. What is the maximum
> number of bananas that the camel can get across to the other side
> uneaten?

I had to solve this problem before, don't remember specifics (of the whole 
process that is), but to get the bananas across, you couldn't just carry
them straight through, you had to drop some off, i.e. carry 1000 bananas,
walk 333 miles (eating 333 bananas), drop off 334, walk back (finishing off
the remaining ones), then when you got to that point again, (the 333 mark)
you would have 1000 again... the answer was 533+(1/3) iirc




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 06:44:07 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: RE: Another question about free-markets...
Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A193A7A22@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate wrote:
[govt subsidies to transcontinental railroads]
> Only *after* it was clear that these companies could not 
> do it themselves because of a lack of sufficient traffic 
> to support the business.

So if the market could not support it, who paid for it and how, who
benefited from the distortion and who paid the price? The market demands
the most efficient distribution of capital resources, when the
government screws with that and screws with the market, the resulting
problems (arbitrary coercive power of Western railroads, and severe lack
of quality and safety) are because of that distortion, not the market.

The government should have *not* intervened.

Which is not my point though, my point is the judgements of an
uneducated populace and corrupted government to blame this as a natural
effect of a free market should not be carried forward, it needs to be
exposed and corrected.

[oil mineral rights]
>> The placement (ownership) of these rights, their value, 
>> restrictions and enforcement are the result of a free 
>> market? No, government intervention.
> 
> Actualy no, try buying a piece of land and enforcing the 
> title *without* registering it at the country seat or its
> likes.

Which is not a market instrument, it is a government instrument.
Government intervention does not necessarily have to be direct and
purposeful.

	Matt




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 14:51:04 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Another potential flaw in current economic theory... (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810061955.OAA08893@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 20:35:53 +0100
> From: Steve Mynott 
> Subject: Re: Another potential flaw in current economic theory... (fwd)

> how can you "own" something yet not control it?  fascism is a form of
> socialism

I 'own' my freedom but I *never* control it. Its expression is a direct
result of *others* respecting that ownership.

Another example is a very old Chinese proverb from The Masao:

You are
What you do
When it counts

The point being, you *never* have anything to say about when it counts.

Not to mention the obvious retort, what do you mean by 'control'...

> any true cypherpunk must be a libertarian..

In your opinion.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: SDN 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 08:23:15 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Web TV with 128b exported
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981006110801.0088a430@m7.sprynet.com>
Message-ID: <19981006151326.A7421@divcom.slimy.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Tue, Oct 06, 1998 at 04:32:07PM -0500, William H. Geiger III wrote:
> In <3.0.5.32.19981006110801.0088a430@m7.sprynet.com>, on 10/06/98 
>    at 11:08 AM, David Honig  said:
> 
> >http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/981005/ca_microso_1.html
> 
> >MOUNTAIN VIEW, Calif., Oct. 5 /PRNewswire/ -- Microsoft Corp.'s (Nasdaq:
> >MSFT - news) WebTV Networks today announced it is the first U.S. company
> >to obtain government approval to export nonkey recovery-based
> >128-bit-strength encryption for general commercial use. WebTV Networks
> >pioneered low-cost access to the Internet, e-mail, financial services and
> >electronic shopping through a television set and a standard phone line. 
> 
> >The WebTV(TM) Network service, combined with the WebTV-based Internet
> >terminals and receivers, is the first communications system permitted by
> >the U.S. government to provide strong encryption for general use by
> >non-U.S. citizens in Japan and the United Kingdom. Such strong encryption
> >allows Japanese and United Kingdom subscribers of WebTV to communicate
> >through the WebTV Network (both within national borders and
> >internationally) without fear of interception by unauthorized parties. 
> 
> I have my doubts on this. I find it highly unlikely that the FEDs would
> approve this without some form of GAK built in even if it is not in the
> form of "key recovery".

It's probably a lot closer to the "private doorbell" scenario.  The only
thing that a WebTV unit will communicate with is the WebTV service (or
the Japanese variant thereof).

Since all traffic goes through a point that will likely cooperate with
law enforcement (and has remote control of the boxes, too.), this doesn't
represent much of a loosening in the export controls.

It's probably as good as or better than any other Microsoft crypto, though.

Jon Leonard




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 08:28:47 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A193A7A25@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Brown, R Ken wrote:
> Same applies to education - I might be able to pay for my 
> daughter to go to school but we want everybody else's kids 
> to go to school as well because my life is better if they do. 
> So we pay for it through tax.

"SHOULD EDUCATION BE COMPULSORY AND TAX-SUPPORTED, AS IT IS TODAY?

The answer to this question becomes evident if one makes the question
more concrete and specific, as follows: Should the government be
permitted to remove children forcibly from their homes, with or without
the parents' consent, and subject the children to educational training
and procedures of which the parents may or may not approve? Should
citizens have their wealth expropriated to support an educational system
which they may or may not sanction, and to pay for the education of
children who are not their own?" -- Nathaniel Branden

Absolutely not.

But even if you take a strong socialist/statist position and answer
"yes," how can you justify expounding on the evils of coercive
monopolies, their arbitrary power, abuse and inefficiency, and then at
the same time make Education, one of the most important services to
society, a coercive monopoly?! This simply does not make sense.

Education needs to be brought into the marketplace so it can be
objectively evaluated. VALUED. As an entitlement, education is not
valued as it should be, and as a monopoly there is no leverage to choose
standards which to value, to discriminate service.

The educational system has failed worse than any other industry, not for
lack of supply and demand, but for lack of free competition.

	Matt




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 08:34:48 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A193A7A26@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




> Political power gums at the mean end of a gun, what political 
> power do monopolies have and how?

err...*comes* from the mean end of a gun. ;)

	Matt




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Burnes 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 07:49:05 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: Another potential flaw in current economic theory... (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199810061803.NAA08378@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Tue, 6 Oct 1998, Jim Choate wrote:

> Forwarded message:
> 
> > Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 11:19:54 -0600 (MDT)
> > From: Jim Burnes 
> > Subject: Re: Another potential flaw in current economic theory... (fwd)
> 
> > Hmmm.  You imply that the employees and employers interests are not
> > the same.  
> 
> Obviously this [is] so.
> 

Demonstrate.  Are you saying the interests of the employees is
not in making money?  In corps that is done by making a profit.
I guess the employees could just steal from the cookie jar.
I don't imagine the majority of the employees favor this route.

> > The whole idea is to make a profit.
> 
> There is MUCH more involved than simply making a profit.

Demonstrate.  The basis of capitalism is wealth creation through
capital accretion and investment.  Investment is risk laden.  Why 
should I invest my capital, which represents many things, goods,
services, time, etc if there is no payoff?  Might as well stay
in bed.

If profit is not the driving concern of investors, maybe you could
enlighten us unwashed masses.  The wealth that is created (payroll
included) can be then used for anything you like, from buying snowcones
and sniper rifles to donating your cash to the Nature Conservancy. 
Whatever agenda you prefer.

> 
> [irrelevant material deleted]
> 
> > Any other sort of interest would simply induce a market distortion
> > in the cost of investment capital.
> 
> Demonstrate please.

It follows that if you water down the proceeds without any accounting
system then all you're doing is giving away benefits.  These will 
(all other things being equal) reduce profits and decrease the
value of the stock.  It will then cost a lot more to attract
investment capital -- perhaps to the point of dissolution of
the company for lack of investment.  The most the employees
will be out is their job.  The investors could be out their
entire life savings.

> 
> > The market detects socialism as damage and routes around it.
> 
> Whoa horsey. I didn't say a damn thing about any third party regulatory
> agency getting invovled here. Don't start trying to change the rules in the
> middle of the game.

OK.  But my point still holds -- that all other things being equal
sending more bennies out to the employees isn't going to help your
stock prices, unless it also produces a concommitant increase in
productivity.  Still they are just bennies -- nothing new.

If you are going to give the employees equity in the company's future, how
do you do the accounting??  Somehow you will have to keep track of those
shares of equity.  Woops...were back to stock again.  If you're argument
is that that still doesn't make the management answerable, then what are
voting blocks of shares?  If there is an issue that is important to the
employee voting block they can take it up in the stock meeting.  If they
loose, they can simply threaten to sell the block of stock and start their
own company.  Maybe they can do better.  Good luck to them.

> 
> > The entire market would never do this voluntarily, so by definition any
> > distortion would have to be induced in a centrally managed economy.
> 
> Demonstrate.

Because these benefits are simply added cost to the production of
goods and services (all other things being equal).  When Joe Consumer
goes to buy something, cost (at some level of acceptable quality) is
usually the driving concern.  They don't give a damn about lofty
employee bonus programs.  Most people don't give a damn if their
cool new hiking shoes are made in Denver or Beijing.


> 
> > By definition socialism.
> 
> Wrong. Socialism is the belief that property is best managed and owned by
> the government. This is within the context of a free market. This means that
> the *ONLY* two parties involved are the producers and consumers. I am
> discussing an alternative approach to business management.
> 
> Fascism is the belief that property should be owned by private individuals
> but managed by governments.
> 

You're simply splitting hairs here.  Systems of "fascism" and "socialism" 
have redefined "ownership" until people become slaves to the people
controlling the definitions.  Private ownership in the current system,
fascist systems and socialist systems is a legal fiction.  Ownership
implies having sole benefit from use and disposal of the items in
question.   Under most governmental systems now in existence ownership is
actually just rental where the state owns everything and tells you what
your percentage is going to be.  The only difference between
marxism/socialism/communism and fascism is the point at which the
state reclaims its property.  In marxist systems the State reclaims
its "property" in the beginning, assuming all people are of a criminal
mindset and not worthy of real ownership.  In socialist and
pseudo-socialist systems like ours, ownership is a fantasy until
profit is derived -- you are then assumed to be a robber baron.
In a free state ownership is yours until a court can prove you
are a criminal who has caused harm to others.  What is amusing is
that our system has finally removed the burden of proof in
civil forfeiture law so that your "property" is considered to
be a criminal until proven otherwise.  It is then taken into
custody.  (*)

The primary failing of marxism is that people were never allowed
to even *believe* they could "own" something.  That being the case
they were unlikey to bother adding any value to anything.  That is
why they are boiling stones for soup.  Now "ownership" has devolved
to the russian mafia.  Same thing.  Unless the people of Russia
smuggle themselves in a bunch of arms, institute and enforce a 
free market system with private property ownership they will never
be anything more than peasants. (*)  

The reason why socialism-light (our system) works is because people
are allowed to believe they own assets until those assets become
valuable.  The state then comes to tell you what your percentage
of the sharecropping you get to keep.  Of course you're allowed to
believe you own something unprofitable forever (unless your using
it write off taxes ;-)

This allows socialism-light to succeed over marxism.  By the time
people have successfully created wealth its too late to go back
and wonder what the hell you've gotten yourself into.

(*) Footnotes:

Footnote 1:

Its interesting to note that civil law, where property can be
held accountable, is an outgrowth of medieval trials where
non-sentient entities where held accountable for acts of god
(or the devil).  If there was a crop blight, several local pigs
could be put on trial, found guilty and burned.  Strange people,
humans.

Footnote 2:

People who have never known real freedom, never know when they
should fight for it.  Two cases in point:

I was flying back from Anguilla into Denver in '97 and was sitting next to
an intelligent and attractive Russian woman in her late teens/ early
twenties.  She was telling me all about what was going on in Russia with
the Mafia controlling the cities.  Extorting money from her father's
restaurant seemed to be a favorite pastime for them.  I thought a second
about this and asked her why her father and the other people on the
block didn't just buy a bunch of hunting shotguns etc and blow them
away next time they tried to collect.  She looked at me with a face
of total puzzlement.  The thought of defending themselves never crossed
her mind.  Much like the farmers who were ravaged during the
Japanese civil wars they had no idea that simply arming themselves
would discourage most would be attackers.

Yesterday I was getting my hair cut and one of the women doing the
haircuts was obviously a Russian immigrant.  She was also complaining
about how terrible it was right now.  She was saying that "all people
really wanted was to be left alone".  It really sickened me that 
here was a person with a peasant mindset.  That person came to the
United States and is now a citizen.  One more person that doesn't
have the guts to stand against criminals.  Unfortunately one more
person voting in the United States.

Freedom isn't free.

jim burnes
definitely out in the weeds now







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 09:11:29 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re : IP: Microchip implants to foil VIP kidnaps
Message-ID: <361AA2B1.5A8F@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> ITALIAN dignitaries who fear being kidnapped are having
> microprocessor homing devices planted in their bodies so police can
> track them down if they are abducted.
>
Where can I buy one of these things for my cat? My master password is
tatooed inside her upper lip.

This brand new GPS system works through a metal barrier?

For transport just tuck the subject in the back of an aluminum cargo
truck and for long-term storage use a metal wharehouse. Contrary to
popular belief there is not a technical solution for every problem. How
about -well-paid- bodyguards?

Ask an engineer to solve a problem you get Tom Swift and his amazing
electrogenerating geodetector.
Ask a politician to solve a problem you get a law.
Ask a doctor to solve a problem and he'll either cut or medicate.
Ask a soldier to solve a problem...
And so on...

I suppose ridiculous solutions are fine as long as they make money or
fame for someone.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 07:14:31 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com
Subject: Yet Again Another Snake Oil Vendor
Message-ID: <199810062107.RAA26498@domains.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Below is a message I posted to the SpyKing mailing list a few months back
when Jaws decided to spam the list with their crypto "challange".

>From: "William H. Geiger III" 
>Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 14:41:24 -0500
>To: SpyKing 
>In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980601033850.0355c350@admin.con2.com>
>Subject: POST RE: $5,000,000 Encryption contest

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In <3.0.3.32.19980601033850.0355c350@admin.con2.com>, on 06/01/98 
   at 02:38 AM, SpyKing  said:

>15)From: SpyKing@thecodex.com
>Subject: $5,000,000 "Break the Code" Encryption Contest

>Friday May 29, 3:00 pm Eastern Time
>Company Press Release
>SOURCE: JAWS Technologies Inc.

>JAWS Launches $5,000,000 ``Break the Code'' Encryption Contest


 Yet another Snake-oil post.

Such challenges like this are really meaningless and are designed as a
publicity stunt to gain some free press rather than as a legitimate test
of the strength of the algorithms involved.

The *only* way to test the security of an algorithm is through a process
of peer-review of the source code.

Until JAWS Technologies decides to go through this process I would stay
far away from this and any other products they may produce. It seems quite
clear that they have little to no understanding of the cryptology &
security fields.

I don't know what it is about the list but it seems that we must endure
these snake-oil posts on a periodic basis.

While I have replied here to many of these snake-oil advertisements I have
yet to see one of these companies post a rebuttal (to the list or
privately).

I have submitted a copy of the Snake-Oil FAQ to SpyKing requesting that he
publish it to the list (it's a little long so I don't want to post it
directly). It can also be found at:

http://www.interhack.net/people/cmcurtin/snake-oil-faq.html

Security & Encryption are the big buzz-words in the computer industry and
many companies are looking to cash-in on it. Be very wary of Johnny Come
Lately's who overnight become cryptology "experts".


- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://users.invweb.net/~whgiii/pgp.html
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: I love running Windows! NOT!

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3a-sha1
Charset: cp850
Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000

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-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
 
Tag-O-Matic: You're throwing it all out the Windows!

-----------------------------------------------------
 -- End of forwarded message
-----------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: If at first you don't succeed, work for Microsoft.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 07:20:20 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810062119.QAA09408@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: Matthew James Gering 
> Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
> Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 13:20:41 -0700 

> The only problem is your statement that one can dominate "saturable"
> markets without some artificial "mechanism."

Who said anything about 'artificial'? You have a sneaky habit of sticking
terms in there where they don't go hoping somebody won't catch it. We're
talking a free-market, there are *only* two participants; provider and
consumer. If I allow 'artificial' in there then there is the explicit
assumption that a third party is now involved. I won't accept a
bastardization of free-market in that manner.

If you want to expand your argument by the injection of these spurious terms
(they aren't relevant to my argument) feel free. Be warned I will continue
to point out the distinction vis-a-vis the impact on conclusions.

> If you mean dominate by
> market share, then sure that is possible.

I mean *dominate* the market. Quit sticking extra terms in there trying 
to subtly change the meaning. I promise you I will notice so you can quit
now.

> ALCOA dominated via low prices and high efficiency. Domination in the
> bad sense is to be immune from the laws of supply and demand, and hence
> have arbitrary power over the market -- that is the definition of a
> coercive monopoly.

No, that is the definition of monopoly. Now what and how they got and retain
that position may invoke coercion but it *isn't* a requirement for
monoplies by definition. Don't try to confuse method with type.

> You will find that that is not possible without an
> artificial barrier to competition.

Demonstrate please. The problem with this view is that it implies that given
sufficient time *any* market strategy will fail. In other words there is no
best or efficient strategy for a given market. In the past when this has
been brought up I've asked for an explanation of how this dynamic works and
specificaly what prevents such best-of-breed examples from existing.

I'm still waiting for such an explanation.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 09:34:40 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A193A7A28@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate wrote:
> > The only problem is your statement that one can dominate 
> > "saturable" markets without some artificial "mechanism."
> 
> Who said anything about 'artificial'?

I did. I state you cannot have a coercive monopoly without artificial
barriers (and hence a free market cannot have a coercive monopoly) and
you disagree. I am not sticking any terms where they don't go, you have
consistently theorized monopolies can exist in a free market.

Perhaps you should re-read my statement and not assume negatives where I
clearly did not write them.

> talking a free-market, there are *only* two participants;

That is a twisted and absolutely unjustified definition of a free
market. A free market lacks forceful restriction or prohibition of free
[consensual] trade. 

EXCEPT that which violates individual rights. I will argue that an
anarcho-capitalist market that treats force as a commodity is NOT a free
market.

There can be participants acting as agents, intermediaries and arbiters
for the traders.

> > If you mean dominate by
> > market share, then sure that is possible.
> 
> I mean *dominate* the market.

You cannot define a word with itself. What is *dominate* in context of a
market, and does that dominance imply the possession of arbitrary power?

> > have arbitrary power over the market -- that is the 
> > definition of a coercive monopoly.
> 
> No, that is the definition of monopoly.

The only valid definition, yes. I will gladly accept the invalidation
that dominant or exclusive market share necessarily constitute a
monopoly, as that does not in itself prove arbitrary power (immunity
from market economics).

> > You will find that that is not possible without an
> > artificial barrier to competition.
> 
> Demonstrate please. The problem with this view is that it 
> implies that given sufficient time *any* market strategy 
> will fail. In other words there is no best or efficient 
> strategy for a given market.

There is but ONE market strategy: to price at a point lower than new
entrants could sustain their business, and constantly increase
productive efficiency and reduce costs.

This works great in the short term, especially in emerging industries,
but it is statistically improbable for a company to maintain perfection.
The market is not static, it is always changing and technology often
favors new entrants who are not encumbered with legacy technology.

It is less relevant that such a company is unlikely to maintain that
position forever, but that such efficient dominance is good for the
market. Productive efficiency raises the standard of living.

	Matt




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 07:20:35 +0800
To: Digital Bearer Settlement List 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


From: Somebody
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 18:02:28 +0100
To: Robert Hettinga 
Subject: Sad news ...
Mime-Version: 1.0

Hi Bob,

I figured you might be interested in today's news: DigiCash Amsterdam has
officially gone bankrupt.

Even though anyone can access the news (although probably not yet in
electronic
form), I'd appreciate if you don't mention me as being the one who told you
this.
I take it that the details will be brought to light in the coming few weeks.

Anyway, I believe this is very bad news for all those who believe in "bearer
certificates" or whatever one might like to call them.


--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 07:38:57 +0800
To: David Honig 
Subject: Re: Web TV with 128b exported
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981006110801.0088a430@m7.sprynet.com>
Message-ID: <199810062125.RAA26914@domains.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In <3.0.5.32.19981006110801.0088a430@m7.sprynet.com>, on 10/06/98 
   at 11:08 AM, David Honig  said:

>http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/981005/ca_microso_1.html

>MOUNTAIN VIEW, Calif., Oct. 5 /PRNewswire/ -- Microsoft Corp.'s (Nasdaq:
>MSFT - news) WebTV Networks today announced it is the first U.S. company
>to obtain government approval to export nonkey recovery-based
>128-bit-strength encryption for general commercial use. WebTV Networks
>pioneered low-cost access to the Internet, e-mail, financial services and
>electronic shopping through a television set and a standard phone line. 

>The WebTV(TM) Network service, combined with the WebTV-based Internet
>terminals and receivers, is the first communications system permitted by
>the U.S. government to provide strong encryption for general use by
>non-U.S. citizens in Japan and the United Kingdom. Such strong encryption
>allows Japanese and United Kingdom subscribers of WebTV to communicate
>through the WebTV Network (both within national borders and
>internationally) without fear of interception by unauthorized parties. 

I have my doubts on this. I find it highly unlikely that the FEDs would
approve this without some form of GAK built in even if it is not in the
form of "key recovery".

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: Walk through doors, don't crawl through Windows.

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Richard Stallman 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 09:10:55 +0800
To: rick@campbellcentral.org
Subject: Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code)
In-Reply-To: <199810051105.HAA13894@germs.dyn.ml.org>
Message-ID: <199810062305.RAA29198@wijiji.santafe.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



      I may wish to write some code for free, that
    is, have the intention of letting you use my source code in your
    programs, and to write other code for profit.

Please separate the issues of freedom and price.  I think you are
lumping them together.  A number of people these days write free
software for profit; there are companies whose business is based on
developing free software, and all the software they develop is free.
See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html for more about these
issues.

    I would vastly prefer that people simply place their code in the
    public domain explicitly.

If you want to use our code in non-free software, and leave your users
(who would then be our users also) no freedom, it is understandable
that you would ask for this.  But if we care about their freedom, as
well as about your freedom, it is natural that we would say no.

I've heard many people say that the X11 license is "more free" than
the GNU GPL.  Implicit in that is an assumption that you should
measure the freedom where the program leaves the hands of the original
developer.  But that doesn't measure the *users'* freedom.

If you measure the freedom where the program reaches the end user, you
find that the GPL results in more freedom for the users, because it
protects the users' freedom.  The X11 and BSD licenses have failed to
do that.  A large fraction of the users of X11 are running proprietary
modified versions; for them, X11 has very little freedom.  The same
was true of BSD--most of its users were running the proprietary
systems SunOS 4 and Ultrix.  (Maybe that is still true.)

See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/x.html for more explanation.

But if you do decide to use a non-copyleft free license, please don't
use the BSD license.  Please use the X11 license, or some other that
is free of special problems.  See
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/bsd.html for an explanation.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Richard Stallman 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 09:11:27 +0800
To: schneier@counterpane.com
Subject: Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code)
In-Reply-To: <199810051105.HAA13894@germs.dyn.ml.org>
Message-ID: <199810062306.RAA29216@wijiji.santafe.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



    >The two have different goals. RMS is mistaken about appropriate
    >licensing for crypto code written by cypherpunks because he thinks the
    >goals are the same, when they are not.

I beg your pardon, but this is no mistake.  I'm well aware of the
people who argue for donating code to companies "so it will be more
widely used."  Proprietary software developers have been seeking for
years to convince free software developers to think this way, and not
just in the field of encryption.  This is what the X Consortium used
to say (see http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/x.html).

If you care about freedom, there's no reason why you can't care about
users' freedom to share and change software, and their freedom to use
encryption, at the same time.  You can work to spread use of
encryption and to spread users' freedom, at the same time, by
developing free encryption software.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 07:19:46 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net, e$@vmeng.com
Subject: FINAL REMINDER: DCS-NY: October 13 Meeting: Stu Feldman of IBM
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


To: "recipient list suppressed" 
Subject: FINAL REMINDER: DCS-NY: October 13 Meeting: Stu Feldman of IBM
Reply-To: dcs-ny-rsvp@piermont.com
Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108)
From: "Perry E. Metzger" 
Date: 06 Oct 1998 15:03:08 -0400
Lines: 105
Sender: owner-cryptography@c2.net


[If you know of people who may be interested in this meeting, please
feel free to forward this message to them.]

FINAL REMINDER:

The second luncheon meeting of the Digital Commerce Society of New
York (DCS-NY), will be held on Tuesday, October 13th at 12:00. If you
are interested in attending, please RSVP and send in your check (as
explained below) IMMEDIATELY. If we don't _receive_ your check by
Friday, we cannot guarantee that we can seat you. (Normally I wouldn't
be sending out a reminder this late, but we've had a large influx of
inquiries in the last 24 hours.)

This Month's Luncheon Speaker:

 Stuart Feldman, IBM Institute for Advanced Commerce, IBM T.J.
 Watson Research Center

 Topic: Future Directions in Electronic Commerce

 Stuart Feldman will delve into a half dozen major themes for long-term
 research in electronic commerce. These areas will take years to resolve
 at a research level and even longer to achieve full impact in the world
 economy. They include privacy, the evolving marketplace on several time
 scales, the rise of dynamic businesses and electronic haggling, improved
 relationships to customers, and the systems underpinnings needed to
 support the vast new opportunities and capabilities of electronic
 commerce. Stuart Feldman is Director of IBM's Institute for Advanced
 Commerce. The Institute is dedicated to creating new technologies for
 support of e-commerce as well as pursuing fundamental issues in
 e-commerce. He is also the author of the original "make" and "f77."


WHAT IS DCS-NY?

As some of you probably know, Robert Hettinga has been running a group
called the Digital Commerce Society of Boston for over three years.
DCSB meets once a month for lunch at the Harvard Club in Boston to
hear a speaker and discuss the implications of rapidly emerging
internet and cryptographic technologies on finance and commerce --
"Digital Commerce", in short.

The Digital Commerce Society of New York (DCS-NY) is a spin-off of
DCSB.  We intend to meet the second Tuesday of each month for lunch
at the Harvard Club in New York, and conduct meetings much like those
of DCSB. Our organizing meeting in September was attended by a wide
variety of professionals involved in the business, technical and legal
sides of the emerging world of digital commerce.

If you are interested in attending our next luncheon meeting, please
follow the directions located below. If you merely wish to be added to
our e-mail meeting announcements list, you may send your e-mail
address to "dcs-ny-rsvp@piermont.com".


Perry

PS We would like to thank John McCormack for his invaluable assistance in
procuring the venue for our meetings.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

HOW TO RSVP:

The meeting will start at 12:00 noon on October 13th at the Harvard Club,
which located at 27 West 44th St. in Manhattan.

The cost of the luncheon is $49.00.

To RSVP, please:
A) Send a check for $49.00 (payable to "The Harvard Club of New York") to:

	Harry S. Hawk
	DCS-NY LUNCHEON
	Piermont Information Systems, Inc.
	175 Adams St., #9G
	Brooklyn, New York  11201

Please include along with your check:
1) The name of the person attending
2) Their daytime phone number
3) Their e-mail address

B) Send an email message to dcs-ny-rsvp@piermont.com indicating that
you have sent your check, so that we can inform the Harvard Club of
the number of people who will be attending.

Please note that the Harvard Club dress code requires jacket and tie
for men and comparable attire for women.

If you have special dietary requirements, please check with us by
email before you RSVP.

Making final arrangements for our room requires that we have a good
idea of how many attendees we will have. Because of this, it is very
important that you RSVP quickly so that we will be able to get a
larger room if necessary.

We are looking forward to seeing you!

----------------------------------------------------------------------


Perry

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 08:17:47 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Web TV with 128b exported
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981006110801.0088a430@m7.sprynet.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 2:08 PM -0400 on 10/6/98, David Honig wrote:


> http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/981005/ca_microso_1.html
>
> MOUNTAIN VIEW, Calif., Oct. 5 /PRNewswire/ -- Microsoft Corp.'s (Nasdaq:
> MSFT - news) WebTV Networks today announced it is the first U.S. company to
> obtain government approval to export nonkey recovery-based 128-bit-strength
> encryption for general commercial use.

Looks like all of those clandestine visits that BillG, um, paid, to BillC
in Martha's Vinyard the last couple of summers finally, um, paid off?

Nawwwwwww...

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 08:30:23 +0800
To: SDN 
Subject: Re: Web TV with 128b exported
In-Reply-To: <19981006151326.A7421@divcom.slimy.com>
Message-ID: <199810062222.SAA27925@domains.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In <19981006151326.A7421@divcom.slimy.com>, on 10/06/98 
   at 03:13 PM, SDN  said:

>It's probably as good as or better than any other Microsoft crypto,
>though.

That's not really saying much ...

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: OS/2: Windows done RIGHT!

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 09:03:31 +0800
To: Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer 
Subject: Re: Another potential flaw in current economic theory... (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199810061803.NAA08378@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 2:35 PM -0500 10/6/98, Steve Mynott wrote:
>any true cypherpunk must be a libertarian..


	Libertarians are just cowardly anarchists, they lack the courage of
their convictions to take the last step and eliminate government
altogether.
--
petro@playboy.com----for work related issues. I don't speak for Playboy.
petro@bounty.org-----for everthing else.      They wouldn't like that.
                                              They REALLY
Economic speech IS political speech.          wouldn't like that.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 09:07:00 +0800
To: Robert Hettinga 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 3:30 PM -0500 10/6/98, Robert Hettinga wrote:
>--- begin forwarded text
>From: Somebody
>Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 18:02:28 +0100
>To: Robert Hettinga 
>Subject: Sad news ...
>Mime-Version: 1.0
>I figured you might be interested in today's news: DigiCash Amsterdam has
>officially gone bankrupt.

>Even though anyone can access the news (although probably not yet in
>electronic
>form), I'd appreciate if you don't mention me as being the one who told you
>this.
>I take it that the details will be brought to light in the coming few weeks.

>Anyway, I believe this is very bad news for all those who believe in "bearer
>certificates" or whatever one might like to call them.

	Then again, maybe it won't be.

	Who owns the patents, Digicash, or Chaum?

	If it's digicash, who will buy the rights to it, and what would
"they" do with that technology.
--
petro@playboy.com----for work related issues. I don't speak for Playboy.
petro@bounty.org-----for everthing else.      They wouldn't like that.
                                              They REALLY
Economic speech IS political speech.          wouldn't like that.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 09:27:50 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Web TV with 128b exported
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981006110801.0088a430@m7.sprynet.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 4:32 PM -0500 10/6/98, William H. Geiger III wrote:
>   at 11:08 AM, David Honig  said:
>
>>http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/981005/ca_microso_1.html
>
>>MOUNTAIN VIEW, Calif., Oct. 5 /PRNewswire/ -- Microsoft Corp.'s (Nasdaq:
>>MSFT - news) WebTV Networks today announced it is the first U.S. company
>>to obtain government approval to export nonkey recovery-based
>>128-bit-strength encryption for general commercial use. WebTV Networks
>>pioneered low-cost access to the Internet, e-mail, financial services and
>>electronic shopping through a television set and a standard phone line.
>
>>The WebTV(TM) Network service, combined with the WebTV-based Internet
>>terminals and receivers, is the first communications system permitted by
>>the U.S. government to provide strong encryption for general use by
>>non-U.S. citizens in Japan and the United Kingdom. Such strong encryption
>>allows Japanese and United Kingdom subscribers of WebTV to communicate
>>through the WebTV Network (both within national borders and
>>internationally) without fear of interception by unauthorized parties.
>
>I have my doubts on this. I find it highly unlikely that the FEDs would
>approve this without some form of GAK built in even if it is not in the
>form of "key recovery".

	I don't. If the chinese can buy access to strong Crypto, then Gates
& Crew can get permission to export SSL enabled browsers.
--
petro@playboy.com----for work related issues. I don't speak for Playboy.
petro@bounty.org-----for everthing else.      They wouldn't like that.
                                              They REALLY
Economic speech IS political speech.          wouldn't like that.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 09:37:58 +0800
To: Petro 
Subject: Re: Another potential flaw in current economic theory... (fwd)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199810062329.TAA28931@domains.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In , on 10/06/98 
   at 05:53 PM, Petro  said:

>At 2:35 PM -0500 10/6/98, Steve Mynott wrote:
>>any true cypherpunk must be a libertarian..


>	Libertarians are just cowardly anarchists, they lack the courage of
>their convictions to take the last step and eliminate government
>altogether.

Libertarians are well aware of the need for government, they are also
aware of the dangers to personal freedom that governments represent. The
goal of the Libertarians is to provide a system that minimizes government
and maximizes personal freedom. In the US this system takes the form of a
Constitutionally limited government (ie: the US Constitution interpreted
as a limiting document not an enabling one).

Anarchism does not work. It is a pipe dream much like Communism that only
leads to Totalitarianism.

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: How do you make Windows faster?  Throw it harder!

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3a-sha1
Charset: cp850
Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000

iQCVAwUBNhqqCI9Co1n+aLhhAQE9iAP/frmPXAA1ayjsqmoOHvwEeAYRfG4GYegR
j87tY3l6NXS9qMlz8wOXcSx78EuDRMT9lK9D4FVRKaEk7xFNjIoAjU9h/BpKOugz
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mac Norton 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 10:26:59 +0800
To: me 
Subject: RE: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!... (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19981005124212.00a094c0@mail.ewol.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Mon, 5 Oct 1998, me wrote:

> The above concept is embraced by a vast number of the planets population
> and illustrates the ability of rationality to control perception.

The shorthand presently in vogue is "compartmentalization." 
We used to call it cognitive disonance.  Seems to this observer
that both sides of this thread are deep into it.  I stay on this
list because, just maybe, one of these days, one of you guys 
is gonna crack the code of anarchy v. contract enforcement.  Until
then, it's cogdis.
MacN




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 10:44:12 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!... (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810070043.TAA11010@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 19:22:31 -0500 (CDT)
> From: Mac Norton 
> Subject: RE: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!... (fwd)

> that both sides of this thread are deep into it.  I stay on this
> list because, just maybe, one of these days, one of you guys 
> is gonna crack the code of anarchy v. contract enforcement.  Until
> then, it's cogdis.

What makes you thing anarchy eliminates contracts and the concomitent need
for enforcement?

The question is: "Who does the contract enforcement and arbitrage?"


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Rod Munch <0wned@i.own.playboy.net>
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 13:05:29 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Netscape e-mail 128 bit Encryption
Message-ID: <361AD5E9.7D70@i.own.playboy.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I just wantid to know if there is any to Crack The Encryption in 
Netscapes e-mail program for sending messages cause my computer teacher 
thinks hes all big and bad cause no one can read his shit so i want to 
show him up.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 10:17:51 +0800
To: Petro 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 6:57 PM -0400 on 10/6/98, Petro wrote:

> 	Who owns the patents, Digicash, or Chaum?

DigiCash, Inc., of the US of A, not DigiCash BV, of the Netherlands.

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: James Glave 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 13:04:13 +0800
To: Information Security 
Subject: Re: Web TV with 128b exported
In-Reply-To: <199810070119.VAA23135@panix7.panix.com>
Message-ID: <199810070258.TAA00770@hardly.hotwired.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>#   http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/981005/ca_microso_1.html
>#   
>#   William Reinsch, U.S.  undersecretary for export administration:
>#   ``The WebTV Network provides secure communications for its
>#   customers and partners without posing undue risks to
>#   national security and law enforcement.'' 
>
>Either it is interceptable and decodable or it isn't.
>
>If it isn't, then software browsers (Netscape/IE) should
>be allowed to do it too.
>
>Perhaps Declan could investigate and get a story out of it.

He is off the grid until next week, at which point he starts working for
Wired News. We'l try to get something on this for Wednesday.

jtg


James Glave, News Editor, Wired News, http://www.wired.com  (415) 276-8430




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 13:38:30 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: money parable
Message-ID: <199810070334.UAA26974@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




------- Forwarded Message

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 23:30:57 +0000
From: Paul Swann 
Subject: I Want The Earth Plus 5%

I Want The Earth Plus 5%

Fabian was excited as he once more rehearsed his speech for the crowd
certain to turn up tomorrow. He had always wanted prestige and power and
now his dreams were going to come true. He was a craftsman working with
silver and gold, making jewelry and ornaments, but he became
dissatisfied with working for a living. He needed excitement, a
challenge, and now his plan was ready to begin.

For generations the people used the barter system. A man supported his
own family by providing all their needs or else he specialised in a
particular trade. Whatever surpluses he might have from his own
production, he exchanged or swapped for the surplus of others.

Market day was always noise and dusty, yet people looked forward to the
shouting and waving, and especially the companionship. It used to be a
happy place, but now there were too many people, too much arguing. There
was no time for chatting - a better system was needed.

Generally, the people had been happy, and enjoyed the fruits of their
work.

In each community a simple Government had been formed to make sure that
each person's freedoms and rights were protected and that no man was
forced to do anything against his will by any other man, or any group of
men.

This was the Government's one and only purpose and each Governor was
voluntarily supported by the local community who elected him.

However, market day was the one problem they could not solve. Was a
knife worth one or two baskets of corn? Was a cow worth more than a
wagon Š and so on. No one could think of a better system.

Fabian had advertised, "I have the solution to our bartering problems,
and I invite everyone to a public meeting tomorrow."

The next day there was a great assembly in the town square and Fabian
explained all about the new system which he called "money". It sounded
good. "How are we to start?" the people asked.

"The gold which I fashion into ornaments and jewelry is an excellent
metal. It does not tarnish or rust, and will last a long time. I will
make some gold into coins and we shall call each coin a dollar." He
explained how values would work, and that "money" would be really a
medium for exchange - a much better system than bartering.

One of the Governors questioned, "Some people can dig gold and make
coins for themselves", he said.

"This would be most unfair", Fabian was ready with the answer. "Only
those coins approved by the Government can be used, and these will have
special marking stamped on them." This seemed reasonable and it was
proposed that each man be given an equal number. "But I deserve the
most," said the candle-maker. "Everyone uses my candles." "No", said the
farmer, "without food there is no life, surely we should get the most."
And so the bickering continued.

Fabian let them argue for a while and finally he said, "Since none of
you can agree, I suggest you obtain the number you require from me.
There will be no limit, except for your ability to repay. The more you
obtain, the more you must repay in one year's time. "And what will you
receive?" the people asked.

"Since I am providing a service, that is, the money supply, I am
entitled to payment for my work. Let us say that for every 100 pieces
you obtain, you repay me 105 for every year that you owe the debt. The 5
will be my charge, and I shall call this charge interest."

There seemed to be no other way, and besides, 5% seemed little enough
charge. "Come back next Friday and we will begin."

Fabian wasted no time. He made coins day and night, and at the end of
the week he was ready. The people were queued up at his shop, and after
the coins were inspected and approved by the Governors the system
commenced. Some borrowed only a few and they went off to try the new
system.

They found money to be marvelous, and they soon valued everything in
gold coins or dollars. The value they placed on everything was called a
"price", and the price mainly depended on the amount of work required to
produce it. If it took a lot of work the price was high, but if it was
produced with little effort it was quite inexpensive.

In one town lived Alan, who was the only watchmaker. His prices were
high because the customers were willing to pay just to own one of his
watches.

Then another man began making watches and offered them at a lower price
in order to get sales. Alan was forced to lower his prices, and in no
time at all prices came down, so that both men were striving to give the
best quality at the lowest price. This was genuine free competition.

It was the same with builders, transport operators, accountants,
farmers, in fact, in every endeavour. The customers always chose what
they felt was the best deal - they had freedom of choice. There was no
artificial protection such as licences or tariffs to prevent other
people from going into business. The standard of living rose, and before
long the people wondered how they had ever done without money.

At the end of the year, Fabian left his shop and visited all the people
who owed him money. Some had more than they borrowed, but this meant
that others had less, since there were only a certain number of coins
issued in the first place. Those who had more than they borrowed paid
back each 100 plus the extra 5, but still had to borrow again to carry
on. The others discovered for the first time that they had a debt.
Before he would lend them more money, Fabian took a mortgage over some
of their assets, and everyone went away once moreto try and get those
extra 5 coins whichalways seemed so hard to find.

No one realised that as a whole, the country could never get out of debt
until all the coins were repaid, but even then, there were those extra 5
on each 100 which had never been lent out at all. No one but Fabian
could see that it was impossible to pay the interest - the extra money
had never been issued, therefore someone had to miss out.

It was true that Fabian spent some coins, but he couldn't possibly spend
anything like 5% of the total economy on himself. There were thousands
of people and Fabian was only one. Besides, he was still a goldsmith
making a comfortable living.

At the back of his shop Fabian had a strongroom and people found it
convenient to leave some of their coins with him for safekeeping. He
charged a small fee depending on the amount of money, and the time it
was left with him. He would give the owner receipts for the deposit.

When a person went shopping, he did not normally carry a lot of gold
coins. He would give the shopkeeper one of the receipts to the value of
the goods he wanted to buy. Shopkeepers recognised the receipt as being
genuine and accepted it with the idea of taking it to Fabian and
collecting the appropriate amount in coins. The receipts passed from
hand to hand instead of the gold itself being transferred. The people
had great faith in the receipts - they accepted them as being as good as
coins.

Before long, Fabian noticed that it was quite unusual for anyone to
actually call for their gold coins.

He thought to himself, "Here I am in possession of all this gold and I
am still a hard working craftsman. It doesn't make sense. Why there are
dozens of people who would be glad to pay me interest for the use of
this gold which is lying here and rarely called for.

It is true, the gold is not mine - but it is in my possession, which is
all that matters. I hardly need to make any coins at all, I can use some
of the coins stored in the vault."

At first he was very cautious, only loaning a few at a time, and then
only on tremendous security. But gradually he became bolder, and larger
amounts were loaned.

One day, a large loan was requested. Fabian suggested, "Instead of
carrying all these coins we can make a deposit in your name, and then I
shall give you several receipts to the value of the coins." The borrower
agreed, and off he went with a bunch of receipts. He had obtained a
loan, yet the gold remained in the strong-room. After the client left,
Fabian smiled. He could have his cake and eat it too. He could "lend"
gold and still keep it in his possession.

Friends, strangers and even enemies needed funds to carry out their
businesses - and so long as they could produce security, they could
borrow as much as they needed. By simply writing out receipts Fabian was
able to "lend" money to several times the value of gold in his
strong-room, and he was not even the owner of it. Everything was safe so
long as the real owners didn't call for their gold and the confidence of
the people was maintained.

He kept a book showing the debits and credits for each person - the
lending business was proving to be very lucrative indeed.

His social standing in the community was increasing almost as fast as
his wealth. He was becoming a man of importance, he commanded respect.
In matters of finance, his very word was like a sacred pronouncement.

Goldsmiths from other towns became curious about his activities and one
day they called to see him. He told them what he was doing, but was very
careful to emphasize the need for secrecy. If their plan was exposed,
the scheme would fail, so they agreed to form their own secret alliance.

Each returned to his own town and began to operate as Fabian had taught.

People now accepted the receipts as being as good as gold itself, and
many receipts were deposited for safe keeping in the same way as coins.
When a merchant wished to pay another for goods, he simply wrote a short
note instructing Fabian to transfer money from his account to that of
the second merchant. It took Fabian only a few minutes to adjust the
figures.

This new system became very popular, and the instruction notes were
called "checks".

Late one night, the goldsmiths had another secret meeting and Fabian
revealed a new plan. The next day they called a meeting with all the
Governors, and Fabian began. "The receipts we issue have become very
popular. No doubt, most of you Governors are using them and you find
them very convenient." They nodded in agreement and wondered what the
problem was. "Well", he continued, "some receipts are being copied by
counterfeiters. This practice must be stopped."

The Governors became alarmed. "What can we do?" they asked. Fabian
replied, "My suggestion is this - first of all, let it be the
Government's job to print new notes on a special paper with very
intricate designs, and then each note to be signed by the chief
Governor. We goldsmiths will be happy to pay the printing costs, as it
will save us a lot of time writing out receipts". The Governors
reasoned, "Well, it is our job to protect the people against
counterfeiters and the advice certainly seems like a good idea." So they
agreed to print the notes.

"Secondly," Fabian said, "some people have gone prospecting and are
making their own gold coins. I suggest that you pass a law so that any
person who finds gold nuggets must hand them in. Of course, they will be
reimbursed with notes and coins." The idea sounded good and without too
much thought about it, they printed a large number of crisp new notes.
Each note had a value printed on it - $1, $2, $5, $10 etc. The small
printing costs were paid by the goldsmiths.

The notes were much easier to carry and they soon became accepted by the
people. Despite their popularity however, these new notes and coins were
used for only 10% of transactions. The records showed that the check
system accounted for 90% of all business.

The next part of his plan commenced. Until now, people were paying
Fabian to guard their money. In order to attract more money into the
vault Fabian offered to pay depositors 3% interest on their money.

Most people believed that he was re-lending their money out to borrowers
at 5%, and his profit was the 2% difference. Besides, the people didn't
question him as getting 3% was far better than paying to have the money
guarded.

The volume of savings grew and with the additional money in the vaults,
 Fabian was able to lend $200, $300, $400 sometimes up to $900 for every
$100 in notes and coins that he held in deposit. He had to be careful
not to exceed this nine to one ratio, because one person in ten did
require the notes and coins for use.

If there was not enough money available when required, people would
become suspicious, especially as their deposit books showed how much
they had deposited. Nevertheless, on the $900 in book figures that
Fabian loaned out by writing checks himself, he was able to demand up to
$45 in interest, i.e. 5% on $900. When the loan plus interest was
repaid, i.e. $945, the $900 was cancelled out in the debit column and
Fabian kept the $45 interest. He was therefore quite happy to pay $3
interest on the original $100 deposited which had never left the vaults
at all. This meant that for every $100 he held in deposits, it was
possible to make 42% profit, most people believing he was only making
2%. The other goldsmiths were doing the same thing. They created money
out of nothing at the stroke of a pen, and then charged interest on top
of it.

True, they didn't coin money, the Government actually printed the notes
and coins and gave it to the goldsmiths to distribute. Fabian's only
expense was the small printing fee. Still, they were creating credit
money out of nothing and charging interest on top of it. Most people
believed that the money supply was a Government operation. They also
believed that Fabian was lending them the money that someone else had
deposited, but it was very strange that no one's deposits ever decreased
when a loan was advanced. If everyone had tried to withdraw their
deposits at once, the fraud would have been exposed.

When a loan was requested in notes or coins, it presented no problem.
Fabian merely explained to the Government that the increase in
population and production required more notes, and these he obtained for
the small printing fee.

One day a thoughtful man went to see Fabian. "This interest charge is
wrong", he said. "For every $100 you issue, you are asking $105 in
return. The extra $5 can never be paid since it doesn't exist.

Farmers produce food, industry manufacturers goods, and so on, but only
you produce money. Suppose there are only two businessmen in the whole
country and we employ everyone else. We borrow $100 each, we pay $90 out
in wages and expenses and allow $10 profit (our wage). That means the
total purchasing power is $90 + $10 twice, i.e. $200. Yet to pay you we
must sell all our produce for $210. If one of us succeeds and sells all
his produce for $105, the other man can only hope to get $95. Also, part
of his goods cannot be sold, as there is no money left to buy them.

He will still owe you $10 and can only repay this by borrowing more. The
system is impossible."

The man continued, "Surely you should issue 105, i.e. 100 to me and 5 to
you to spend. This way there would be 105 in circulation, and the debt
can be repaid." Fabian listened quietly and finally said, "Financial
economics is a deep subject, my boy, it takes years of study. Let me
worry about these matters, and you look after yours. You must become
more efficient, increase your production, cut down on your expenses and
become a better businessman. I am always willing to help in these
matters."

The man went away still unconvinced. There was something wrong with
Fabian's operations and he felt that his questions had been avoided.

Yet, most people respected Fabian's word - "He is the expert, the
others must be wrong. Look how the country has developed, how our
production has increased - we must be better off."

To cover the interest on the money they had borrowed, merchants were
forced to raise their prices. Wage earners complained that wages were
too low. Employers refused to pay higher wages, claiming that they would
be ruined. Farmers could not get a fair price for their produce.
Housewives complained that food was getting too dear. And finally some
people went on strike, a thing previously unheard of. Others had become
poverty stricken and their friends and relatives could not afford to
help them. Most had forgotten the real wealth all around - the fertile
soils, the great forests, the minerals and cattle. They could think only
of the money which always seemed so scarce. But they never questioned
the system. They believed the Government was running it.

A few had pooled their excess money and formed "lending" or "finance"
companies. They could get 6% or more this way, which was better than the
3% Fabian paid, but they could only lend out money they owned - they did
not have this strange power of being able to create money out of nothing
by merely writing figures in books.

These finance companies worried Fabian and his friends somewhat, so they
quickly set up a few companies of their own. Mostly, they bought the
others out before they got going. In no time, all the finance companies
were owned by them, or under their control.

The economic situation got worse. The wage earners were convinced that
the bosses were making too much profit. The bosses said that their
workers were too lazy and weren't doing an honest day's work, and
everyone was blaming everyone else.The Governors could not come up with
an answer and besides, the immediate problem seemed to be to help the
poverty stricken.

They started up welfare schemes and made laws forcing people to
contribute to them. This made many people angry - they believed in the
old-fashioned idea of helping one's neighbour by voluntary effort.

"These laws are nothing more than legalised robbery. To take something
off a person against his will, regardless of the purpose for which it is
to be used, is no different to stealing." But each man felt helpless and
was afraid of the jail sentence which was threatened for failing to pay.
These welfare schemes gave some relief, but before long the problem was
back and more money was needed to cope. The cost of these schemes rose
higher and higher and the size of the Government grew.

Most of the Governors were sincere men trying to do their best. They
didn't like asking for more money from their people and finally, they
had no choice but to borrow money from Fabian and his friends. They had
no idea how they were going to repay. Parents could no longer afford to
pay teachers for their children. They couldn't pay doctors. And
transport operators were going out of business.

One by one the government was forced to take these operations over.
Teachers, doctors and many others became public servants.

Few obtained satisfaction in their work. They were given a reasonable
wage, but they lost their identity. They became small cogs in a giant
machine.

There was no room for personal initiative, little recognition for
effort, their income was fixed and advancement came only when a superior
retired or died.

In desperation, the governors decided to seek Fabian's advice. They
considered him very wise and he seemed to know how to solve money
matters. He listened to them explain all their problems, and finally he
answered, "Many people cannot solve their own problems - they need
someone to do it for them. Surely you agree that most people have the
right to be happy and to be provided with the essentials of life. One of
our great sayings is "all men are equal" - is it not?"

Well, the only way to balance things up is to take the excess wealth
from the rich and give it to the poor. Introduce a system of taxation.
The more a man has, the more he must pay. Collect taxes from each person
according to his ability, and give to each according to his need.
Schools and hospitals should be free for those who cannot afford them Š"

He gave them a long talk on high sounding ideals and finished up with,
"Oh, by the way, don't forget you owe me money. You've been borrowing
now for quite some time. The least I can do to help, is for you to just
to pay me the interest. We'll leave the capital debt owing, just pay me
the interest."

They went away, and without giving Fabian's philosophies any real
thought, they introduced the graduated income tax - the more you earn,
the higher your tax rate. No one liked this, but they either paid the
taxes or went to jail.

Merchants were forced once again to raise their prices. Wage earners
demanded higher wages forcing many employers out of business, or to
replace men with machinery. This caused additional unemployment and
forced the Government to introduce further welfare and handout schemes.

Tariffs and other protection devices were introduced to keep some
industries going just to provide employment. A few people wondered if
the purpose of the production was to produce goods or merely to provide
employment.

As things got worse, they tried wage control, price control, and all
sorts of controls. The Government tried to get more money through sales
tax, payroll tax and all sorts of taxes. Someone noted that from the
wheat farmer right through to the housewife, there were over 50 taxes on
a loaf of bread.

"Experts" arose and some were elected to Government, but after each
yearly meeting they came back with almost nothing achieved, except for
the news that taxes were to be "restructured", but overall the total tax
always increased.

Fabian began to demand his interest payments, and a larger and larger
portion of the tax money was being needed to pay him.

Then came party politics - the people started arguing about which group
of Governors could best solve the problems. They argued about
personalities, idealism, party labels, everything except the real
problem. The councils were getting into trouble. In one town the
interest on the debt exceeded the amount of rates which were collected
in a year. Throughout the land the unpaid interest kept increasing -
interest was charged on unpaid interest.

Gradually much of the real wealth of the country came to be owned or
controlled by Fabian and his friends and with it came greater control
over people. However, the control was not yet complete. They knew that
the situation would not be secure until every person was controlled.

Most people opposing the systems could be silenced by financial
pressure, or suffer public ridicule. To do this Fabian and his friends
purchased most of the newspapers, T.V. and radio stations and he
carefully selected people to operate them. Many of these people had a
sincere desire to improve the world, but they never realised how they
were being used. Their solutions always dealt with the effects of the
problem, never the cause.

There were several different newspapers - one for the right wing, one
for the left wing, one for the workers, one for the bosses, and so on.
It didn't matter much which one you believed in, so long as you didn't
think about the real problem. Fabian's plan was almost at its completion
- - - the whole country was in debt to him. Through education and the media,
he had control of people's minds. They were able to think and believe
only what he wanted them to.

After a man has far more money than he can possibly spend for pleasure,
what is left to excite him? For those with a ruling class mentality, the
answer is power - raw power over other human beings. The idealists were
used in the media and in Government, but the real controllers that
Fabian sought were those of the ruling class mentality.

Most of the goldsmiths had become this way. They knew the feeling of
great wealth, but it no longer satisfied them. They needed challenge and
excitement, and power over the masses was the ultimate game.

They believed they were superior to all others. "It is our right and
duty to rule. The masses don't know what is good for them. They need to
be rallied and organised. To rule is our birthright."

Throughout the land Fabian and his friends owned many lending offices.
True, they were privately and separately owned. In theory they were in
competition with each other, but in reality they were working very
closely together. After persuading some of the Governors, they set up an
institution which they called the Money Reserve Centre. They didn't even
use their own money to do this - they created credit against part of the
money out of the people's deposits.

This Institution gave the outward appearance of regulating the money
supply and being a Government operation, but strangely enough, no
Governor or public servant was ever allowed to be on the Board of
Directors.

The Government no longer borrowed directly from Fabian, but began to use
a system of I.O.U.'s to the Money Reserve Centre. The security offered
was the estimated revenue from next year's taxes. This was in line with
Fabian's plan - removing suspicion from himself to an apparent
Government operation. Yet, behind the scenes, he was still in control.

Indirectly, Fabian had such control over the Government that they were
forced to do his bidding. He boasted, "Let me control the nation's money
and I care not who makes its laws." It didn't matter much which group of
Governors were elected. Fabian was in control of the money, the life
blood of the nation.

The Government obtained the money, but interest was always charged on
every loan. More and more was going out in welfare and handout schemes,
and it was not long before the Government found it difficult to even
repay the interest, let alone the capital.

And yet there were people who still asked the question, "Money is a
man-made system. Surely it can be adjusted to serve, not to rule?" But
these people became fewer and their voices were lost in the mad scrabble
for the non-existent interest.

The adminstrations changed, the party labels changed, but the major
policies continued. Regardless of which Government was in "power",
Fabian's ultimate goal was brought closer each year. The people's
policies meant nothing. They were being taxed to the limit, they could
pay no more. Now the time was ripe for Fabian's final move.

10% of the money supply was still in the form of notes and coins. This
had to be abolished in such a way as not to arouse suspicion. While the
people used cash, they were free to buy and sell as they chose - they
still had some control over their own lives.

But it was not always safe to carry notes and coins. Checks were not
accepted outside one's local community, and therefore a more convenient
system was looked forward to. Once again Fabian had the answer. His
organisation issued everyone with a little plastic card showing the
person's name, photograph and an identification number. When this card
was presented anywhere, the storekeeper phoned the central computer to
check the credit rating. If it was clear, the person could buy what he
wanted up to a certain amount.

At first people were allowed to spend a small amount on credit, and if
this was repaid within a month, no interest was charged. This was fine
for the wage earner, but what businessman could even begin? He had to
set up machinery, manufacture the goods, pay wages etc. and sell all his
goods and repay the money. If he exceeded one month, he was charged a
1.5% for every month the debt was owed. This amounted to over 18% per
years.

Businessmen had no option but to add the 18% onto the selling price.
Yet this extra money or credit (the 18%) had not been loaned out to
anyone. Throughout the country, businessmen were given the impossible
task of repaying $118 for every $100 they borrowed - but the extra $18
had never been created at all.

Yet Fabian and his friends increased their standing in society. They
were regarded as pillars of respectability. Their pronouncements on
finance and economics were accepted with almost religious conviction.

Under the burden of ever increasing taxes, many small businesses
collapsed. Special licenses were needed for various operations, so that
the remaining ones found it very difficult to operate. Fabian owned and
controlled all of the big companies which had hundreds of subsidiaries.
These appeared to be in competition with each other, yet he controlled
them all. Eventually all competitors were forced out of business.
Plumbers, panel beaters, electricians and most other small industries
suffered the same fate - they were swallowed up by Fabian's giant
companies which all had Government protections.

Fabian wanted the plastic cards to eliminate notes and coins. His plan
was that when all notes were withdrawn, only businesses using the
computer card system would be able to operate.

He planned that eventually some people would misplace their cards and be
unable to buy or sell anything until a proof of identify was made. He
wanted a law to be passed which would give him ultimate control - a law
forcing everyone to have their identification number tattooed onto their
hand. The number would be visible only under a special light, linked to
a computer. Every computer would be linked to a giant central computer
so that Fabian could know everything about everyone.

________________________________________________________

The story you have read is of course, fiction. But if you found it to be
disturbingly close to the truth and would like to know who Fabian is in
real life, a good starting point is a study on the activities of the
English goldsmiths in the 16th & 17th centuries.

For example, The Bank of England began in 1694. King William of Orange
was in financial difficulties as a result of a war with France. The
Goldsmiths "lent him" 1.2 million pounds (a staggering amount in those
days) with certain conditions:

a.The interest rate was to be 8%. It must be remembered that Magna Carta
stated that the charging or collecting of interest carried the death
penalty.

b.The King was to grant the goldsmiths a charter for the bank which gave
them the right to issue credit.

Prior to this, their operations of issuing receipts for more money than
they held in deposits was totally illegal. The charter made it legal.

In 1694 William Patterson obtained the Charter for the Bank of England.

(c) Larry Hannigan, Australia


~Quotations~

Encyclopaedia Britannica, 14th Edition - "Banks create credit. It is a
mistake to suppose that bank credit is created to any extent by the
payment of money into the banks. A loan made by a bank is a clear
addition to the amount of money in the community."

~

Lord Acton, Lord Chief Justice of England, 1875 - "The issue which has
swept down the centuries and which will have to be fought sooner or
later is the People v. The Banks."

~

Mr Reginald McKenna, when Chairman of the Midland Bank in London - "I
am afraid that ordinary citizens will not like to be told that the banks
can, and do, create and destroy money. And they who control the credit
of the nation direct the policy of governments, and hold in the hollow
of their hands the destiny of the people.

~

Mr Phillip A. Benson, President of the American Bankers' Association,
June 8 1939 - "There is no more direct way to capture control of a
nation than through its credit (money) system."

~

USA Banker's Magazine, August 25 1924 - "Capital must protect itself in
every possible manner by combination and legislation. Debts must be
collected, bonds and mortgages must be foreclosed as rapidly as possible.
When, through a process of law, the common people lose their homes
they will become more docile and more easily governed through the
influence of the strong arm of government, applied by a central power of
wealth under control of leading financiers.

This truth is well known among our principal men now engaged in forming
an imperialism of Capital to govern the world.

By dividing the voters through the political party system, we can get
them to expend their energies in fighting over questions of no
importance. Thus by discreet action we can secure for ourselves what has
been so well planned and so successfully accomplished."

~

Sir Denison Miller - During an interview in 1921, when he was asked if
he, through the Commonwealth Bank, had financed Australia during the
First World War for $700 million, he replied; "Such was the case, and I
could have financed the country for a further like sum had the war
continued." Asked if that amount was available for productive purposes
in this time of peace, he answered "Yes".

~

>From "Hand Over Our Loot, No. 2, by Len Clampett:

"There are four things that must be available for paid work to take
place:

*The work to be done.
*The materials to do the work.
*The labor to do the work.
*The money to pay for the work to be done.

If any of those four things are missing, no paid work can take place.
It is a naturally self-regulating system. If there is work to be done,
and the material is available and the labour willing, all we have to do
is create the money. Quite simple."

Ask yourself why it was that depressions happened. All that went
missing from the community was the money to buy goods and services. The
labour was still available. The work to be done was still there. The
materials had not disappeared, and the goods were readily available in
the shops, or could be produced but for the want of money.

~

Extract from a letter written by Rothschild Bros of London to a New York
firm of bankers on 25 June 1863:

"The few who can understand the System (Cheque Money and Credits) will
either be so interested in its profits, or so dependent on its favours,
that there will be no opposition from that class. While on the other
hand, the great body of people mentally incapable of comprehending the
tremendous advantage that capital derives from the system, will bear its
burdens without complaint and perhaps without even suspecting that the
system is inimical (hostile, hurtful) to their interests.

~

The following quotation was reprinted in the Idaho Leader, USA, 26
August 1924, and has been read into Hansard twice: by John Evans MP, in
1926, and by M.D. Cowan M.P., in the Session of 1930-1931.

In 1891 a confidential circular was sent to American bankers and their
agents, containing the following statements:

"We authorise our loan agents in the western States to loan our funds on
real estate, to fall due on September 1st 1894, and at no time
thereafter.

On September 1, 1894, we will not renew our loans under any
consideration.

On September 1st we will demand our money - we will foreclose and become
mortgagees in possession.

We can take two-thirds of the farms west of the Mississippi and
thousands of them east of the great Mississippi as well, at our own
price.

We may as well own three-fourths of the farms of the west and the money
of the country.

Then the farmers will become tenants, as in England."

~

>From "Hand Over Our Loot, No. 2"

"In the United States, the issuing of money is controlled by the Federal
Reserve Board. This is not a government department but a board of
private bankers.Most of us would believe that the Federal Reserve is a
federal arm of the national governmentŠ.This is not trueŠIn 1913
President Woodrow Wilson signed the document that created the Federal
Reserve, and committed the American people to debt slavery until such
time as they awake from their slumber and overthrow this vicious
tyranny."Š

The understanding of this issue of money into the community can be best
illustrated by equating money in the economy with tickets in a railway
system. The tickets are printed by a printer who is paid for his work.
The printer never claims the ownership of the tickets Š And we can never
imagine a railway company refusing to give passengers seats on a train
because it is out of tickets. By this same token, a government should
never refuse people the access to normal commerce and trade by claiming
it is out of money."

Suppose the government borrows $10 million. It only costs the bankers a
few hundred dollars to actually produce the funds, and a little more to
do the book-keeping. Do you think it is fair that our citizens should
struggle to keep their homes and families together, while the bankers
grow fat on these profits?

Credit created by a Government-owned bank is better than credit created
by private banks, because there is no need to recover the money from
people by way of taxes, and there is no interest attached to inflate the
cost. The public work completed with the credit by the Government bank
is the asset that replaces the money created when the work is finished.

None of our problems will disappear until we correct the creation,
supply and circulation of money. Once the money problem is solved,
everything else will fall into place.

Each of us can help to turn this ship around:

*The first thing is to teach people. VERY FEW know about or understand
this information yet. Please pass this information on to those on and
off the net.

*Research this subject for yourself to increase your understanding.

*Join with others who want to return the control of government to the
people. Remember - they are 'public SERVANTS'! We are not their servant.
They should do OUR bidding.

*Regardless of your political leanings, encourage your local Member to
investigate and correct our money system. (They probably need to be
educated too!). You can do this by email, letter, telephone or personal
discussion.

*Legislators receive an average of only 100 letters on any given issue.
So if you write you opinion and get others to write, say 25 letters, you
send a strong message. (Have a letter writing evening).

*To contact members of Congress or the House of Representatives go to
http://www.hugnet.com/Congress.htm

FURTHER INFORMATION

All You Were Never Told About the US Monetary System

http://www.moneymaker.com/money/frbhist.htm

Billions for the Bankers

www.parascope.com/mx/fedm.htm

Please advise us of other noteworthy links that you know of.



"None of our problems will disappear until we correct the creation,
supply and circulation of money. Once the money problem is solved,
everything else will fall into place."

I Want The Earth Plus 5%
http://health.microworld.com/html/plus_5_.html

"None of our problems will disappear until we correct the creation,
supply and circulation of money. Once the money problem is solved,
everything else will fall into place."

I Want The Earth Plus 5%
http://health.microworld.com/html/plus_5_.html




- - --------------29E97873D749AEAF8665B844--


- ------- End of Forwarded Message


------- End of Forwarded Message




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 13:39:15 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Y2K- a futurist view: Society not resilient enough to withstand
Message-ID: <199810070334.UAA27032@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: "A.C." 
Subject: IP: Y2K- a futurist view: Society not resilient enough to withstand
Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 21:26:27 -0700
To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com

change + 2 more related articles.
Sender: owner-ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
Precedence: list
Reply-To: "A.C." 

"However, he warns that our present economic and institutional=20
structures have milked communities and individuals of their=20
resilience to handle major and abrupt change such as Y2K may unleash."
>>
>
>Watershed for life as we know it
>By JOHN MACLEAY

>29 Sep '98
>
>ROBERT Theobald is a futurist who sees the year 2000 computer glitch=20
>as a potential watershed for global civilisation.=20
>
>Theobald, a British-born economist based in the US, says the year=20
>2000 - or Y2K - computer bug will have as big an impact on the global=20
>economy as the oil shocks of the 1970s.=20
>
>On a more sobering note, Y2K is already shaping up as the biggest=20
>technological fix in history. It will cost the US alone at least=20
>$US600 billion ($1034 billion) and possibly $US1 trillion - double=20
>what it spent on the Vietnam War when adjusted for inflation.=20
>
>Theobald, who for 37 years has advocated the need for change to a=20
>more sustainable economy, says Y2K just might be that catalyst, given=20
>the "inertia" of the current system.=20
>
>But he says that how Y2K will change our lives will depend largely on=20
>the degree to which governments and individuals prepare themselves=20
>between now and December 31 next year.=20
>
>"For me, Y2K is only the beginning of the shocks that are going to=20
>come as we begin to realise that technology does not resolve all of=20
>our problems," Theobald says.=20
>
>Theobald, who is in Australia to promote his latest book, Reworking=20
>Success, says that if handled successfully, Y2K could lead to a more=20
>decentralised economy and political decision-making process.=20
>
>However, he warns that our present economic and institutional=20
>structures have milked communities and individuals of their=20
>resilience to handle major and abrupt change such as Y2K may unleash.=20
>
>
>Theobald says community resilience will determine whether Y2K is=20
>treated as a natural disaster or whether it will be seen as another=20
>technological blunder by those above.=20
>
>Theobald's big fear is that large-scale anger caused by Y2K=20
>disruptions could lead to a breakdown in social order, especially in=20
>the larger US cities, which will be the hardest areas to organise for=20
>Y2K at a neighbourhood and sub-neighbourhood level.=20
>
>"I believe the core issue on (handling) this Y2K thing is to start at=20
>the sub-neighbourhood level so that you can say you know who will=20
>need things.=20
>
>"If we don't do anything, the chances of a major breakdown in public=20
>order, which has already been seen in Indonesia and elsewhere around=20
>the world in one way or another, is a very real threat.=20
>
>"And without far more intelligence being put in to handle this, I'd=20
>say a global slump is a very real possibility, and a significant=20
>collapse is not off the cards either."=20
>
>However, while Theobald canvasses the dark side of the millennium=20
>glitch, he also dissociates himself from the so-called cyber-
>survivalists. These are people, mostly in the US, who are prepared to=20
>ride out the Y2K bug by stocking food and hiding away in isolation.=20
>
>Theobald has been putting his words into action by working closely=20
>with his local neighbourhood in Spokane, Washington State, on Y2K=20
>preparedness.=20
>
>His efforts were recognised last year by the Institute for Social=20
>Innovation in Britain, which awarded him a prize.=20
>
>The institute's other recipient was former computer programmer Paloma=20
>O'Reilly, founder of the Cassandra Project, a community-based Y2K=20
>preparedness group that has been examining and preparing for self-
>sufficiency in all areas that could be millennium-glitch affected,=20
>including power, water and food distribution.=20
>
>"What we do as individuals, as societies and communities over the=20
>next few months will make an enormous difference to how serious Y2K=20
>becomes," says Theobald.=20
>
>"This is a fairly established position. I'm one person among many.=20
>
>"When you consider the very well established companies and the=20
>enormous sums of money being spent on this, what I say is not out of=20
>the ordinary.=20
>
>"But what disturbs most is that the dominant message in our culture=20
>at the moment is not about Y2K preparedness."=20
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Boston Top Stories

Spotlight Boston October 2, 1998 =A0=20

Texas city stages test of `Y2K' doomsday effects=20

By Chris Newton/Associated Press=20

A cold front was icing streets and causing power outages. A riot at a=20
prison outside town was using up valuable police resources. To make=20
matters worse, the 911 emergency system was broken.

The nightmare scene didn't really happen, but Lubbock officials=20
imagined it did Wednesday as part of a test of how the city could=20
react if, as many fear, computers driving vital public systems fail=20
to recognize the year 2000.

The west Texas city of more than 180,000 people didn't test any=20
equipment but rather conducted a drill to see how city personnel=20
responded to mock crises. It was called the first such citywide=20
simulation of the problem in the nation.

City manager Bob Cass, scheduled to testify about the experience=20
Friday before a U.S. Senate committee, said the clear lesson was that=20
cities risk being blindsided if they don't work on contingency plans=20
for the worst-case ``Y2K'' scenario.

``This is the one disaster that we know exactly when it could occur,=20
but it's also the one disaster that we have no idea how bad it will=20
be,'' Cass said. ``One thing that sticks out in my mind is that there=20
is the potential for so many things to go wrong all at once.''

Some computer scientists fear the Y2K bug could cause water systems=20
to shut down, traffic lights to go haywire or life-support systems to=20
fail. When a Chrysler plant ran a Y2K test on a computer system, it=20
was discovered that security doors were stuck closed.

The Lubbock experiment coupled such effects with mock emergencies=20
that would make for an extra-busy night at the police department.

``Our simulation took into account things like slick roads and=20
traffic accidents that would be standard fare for New Year's Eve,''=20
Cass said.

The test was essentially a role-playing game.

Exactly what or when the ``disasters'' would occur was kept secret=20
until the drills started Wednesday evening. The only thing announced=20
was a four-hour window, starting at 5 p.m., when anything could=20
happen.

Test conductors sent e-mail messages to city officials notifying them=20
of mock natural disasters or failed systems. Emergency officials,=20
including police, fire and utility workers, then had to react. A=20
system was set up to judge response times.

At emergency management headquarters, officials frantically practiced=20
deploying police officers to deal with problems and posted red flags=20
on a giant city map to highlight emergency areas.

The illusion was made complete with reporters summoned for ``news=20
conferences'' and mock reports from a National Weather Service=20
official.

As the drill began, officials were told the city's 911 emergency=20
system had failed. Officials quickly switched over to a county system=20
and broadcast two new police and fire department emergency numbers on=20
television.

Cass said city workers improvised well when unexpected problems arose.


``We pulled together and acted like a team,'' he said. ``A lot of=20
these agencies aren't used to dealing with each other like they had=20
to tonight.''

Mayor Windy Sitton said the test revealed that Lubbock needs to study=20
how to better respond to natural gas shortages. When fake gas outages=20
left hundreds of homes without heat, officials had to devise a plan=20
to set up shelters in the parts of town that still had power.
------------------------------------------------------------------

The Kansas City Star=20
Y2k

Nervous world seeks ways to exterminate the year 2000 bug

By DAVID HAYES and FINN BULLERS - Staff Writers
Date: 09/26/98 22:15

Marilyn Allison has spent the last three years making sure computers=20
at Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Kansas City don't fail after the=20
ball drops on New Year's Eve 1999.=20

Allison is confident Blue Cross has the problem well in hand. And she=20
thinks most of Kansas City does, too.=20

But she still is planning to sock away enough food, water, cash and=20
firewood to last a couple of weeks in case everything does go haywire=20
on Jan. 1, 2000.=20

There's the rub of the year 2000 bug, a glitch that could cause some=20
computers, machinery, medical equipment, utilities and VCRs to quit=20
working, or spit out bad information, when the 1900s become the 2000s.
 Nobody really knows what's going to happen.=20

The problem stems from computer systems and billions of embedded=20
computer chips that might read the "00" in a computer program as 1900=20
rather than 2000.=20

Edward Yardeni, one of the nation's leading economists, forecasts a=20
70 percent chance of global recession because of the bug. Another=20
leading forecaster, David Wyss, chief economist for Standard & Poor's,
 doesn't expect significant disruption. He even contends the=20
resulting fallout might be fun -- if we keep a sense of humor about=20
it.=20

But everyone acknowledges something is coming down the tracks, said=20
Leon Kappelman, a university professor and author who is spending=20
much of his time these days talking about the year 2000 problem.=20

"The uncertainty is whether it's a locomotive or a bicycle,"=20
Kappelman said. "And it's difficult to get definitive evidence."=20

Until now there hasn't been much information to rely on. Some credit=20
cards with "00" expiration dates have been rejected. A 104-year-old=20
Minnesota woman was invited to report to kindergarten, and a computer=20
docked an Olathe couple $17,800 for insurance premiums.=20

But those are just scattered hints of the trouble to come. The real=20
warning lies in our growing reliance on vast networks of technology --
 a single misfire in the wrong place can sabotage lives in far-flung=20
places.=20

For example, when just one satellite malfunctioned in May, millions=20
of pagers and automated teller machines went out for two days. An ice=20
storm in eastern Canada knocked out part of the country's power grid=20
and shut off power to millions of people for more than a week.=20

Think if all of that -- and more -- happened on one day: Jan. 1, 2000,
 a Saturday.=20

American businesses rely on computers to do almost everything. They=20
run huge manufacturing machines, answer telephones, pay employees and=20
control alarm systems.=20

Federal government computers track airliners, generate Social=20
Security checks, and control satellites in space and missiles on the=20
ground. Cities use computers to run traffic lights and dispatch=20
police officers.=20

Utilities use them to operate water and sewage systems. Grocery=20
stores use them to keep track of stock and place orders.=20

Even more important than the software that runs those computers are=20
the tiny, embedded computer chips buried in the guts of technological=20
gadgets, heavy machinery, airliners and even granddad's pacemaker.=20

There are 40 billion of the chips, most of them hard or impossible to=20
test, said Dave Hall, an expert with the CABA Corp. in Oak Brook, Ill.
=20

Estimates vary on how many of those chips will fail. Hall says 1=20
percent. Others say failures could go as high as 10 percent -- and=20
even higher in some medical equipment.=20

Even a 1 percent failure rate means 400 million chips would fail.=20

Kappelman, the University of North Texas professor, thinks the=20
interrelationships between all those elements will cause serious=20
disruptions.=20

For instance, it's unlikely that America's electric utilities will be=20
caught unprepared on the last New Year's Eve of the 1900s. In fact,=20
an industry report released last week said utility problems seemed to=20
be fewer -- and easier to fix -- than expected.=20

But if only a few plants shut down on Jan. 1, 2000, the strain on the=20
rest of the power grid could trip a cascading failure that causes=20
widespread brownouts or blackouts.=20

"This will change the way we see the world," Kappelman said. "We'll=20
see our dependence on technology in a whole new way."=20

The fix is in?=20

Even if embedded chips are hard to check, the software problem=20
shouldn't seem too difficult to fix -- on the surface, at least.=20

For decades, computers have been programmed to recognize dates using=20
six digits: today's date is 09/27/98. When the calendar rolls over at=20
midnight on New Year's Eve 1999, computers that haven't been taught=20
differently will see the year as 1900 or some other date entirely. If=20
they work at all.=20

So solve the problem. Add a couple of numbers to the programming code.
 No big deal, right?=20

It's become a very big deal. For Sprint Corp., that small fix means=20
programmers must pore over 80 million lines of code. The fix will=20
take two years.=20

Big business thinks the problem is so significant that fixing it has=20
become a big business.=20

Sprint Corp. is spending $200 million on year 2000 repairs; Hallmark=20
Cards, $25 million; Blue Cross in Kansas City, $25 million; UMB Bank,=20
$22 million; Yellow Corp., $17 million. Johnson County taxpayers will=20
pay $17.2 million to fix that county's year 2000 problems.=20

All told, the fix in the Kansas City area will easily top the $400=20
million mark. Worldwide, the total is estimated at $300 billion to=20
$600 billion.

Entire companies have sprouted just to deal with the year 2000 bug.=20
More than 140 public companies, ranging from Acceler8 Technology to=20
Zmax Corp., are touting their solutions.=20

Where there's a problem, there's a lawyer. Law firms have established=20
special teams just to handle potential litigation from the year 2000=20
problem.=20

Companies that cater to survivalists are hawking canned or dried food=20
and survival gear to those with year 2000 angst.=20

That type of hype is spreading across the Internet on hundreds of=20
year 2000 Web sites. A few of the most radical year 2000 worriers=20
already have moved to rural areas to get away from what they think=20
will be urban chaos when the lights go out and the food supply chain=20
breaks down.=20

Cynthia Ratcliffe of Pleasant Valley, a disabled former office worker,
 can't afford to move. But she's worried.=20

"I'm figuring at least six months of everything being messed up,"=20
said Ratcliffe, who's stocking up on canned food and kerosene lamps.=20
She's worried that those who have prepared will become targets for=20
those who haven't.=20

"I'm contemplating whether I should get some 2-by-4s to put bars over=20
the doors and windows," Ratcliffe said. "I'm trying to decide whether=20
I should buy a weapon."=20

One expert sees self-interest driving much of the panic.=20

Consultants benefit from the year 2000 fear that helps pay their=20
skyrocketing fees, said Nicholas Zvegintzov, president of Software=20
Management Network of New York and a programmer for 35 years.=20
Politicians also benefit from a puffed-up problem they can fix=20
without much effort.=20

"Unfortunately, there's no political clout in common sense,"=20
Zvegintzov said.=20

Sen. Bob Bennett, a Utah Republican who coordinates the Senate's year=20
2000 efforts, isn't doing anything to add to the national calm.=20

In a July 15 speech to the National Press Club in Washington, Bennett=20
told journalists to expect electrical brownouts and regional=20
blackouts. He predicts some banks will go bankrupt and some water=20
systems will break down.=20

Such alarm might actually be good, said Heidi Hooper, year 2000=20
director for the Information Technology Association of America. She=20
said the general public could use a serious wake-up call.=20

"These huge Fortune 100 companies are spending, collectively,=20
billions and billions of dollars. I don't think that's hype," she=20
said. "They are not going to spend that money for no reason. They=20
know, bottom line, that if they are going to make money they have to=20
stay in business."=20

But for some businesses to stay afloat, other businesses will have to=20
drown, she said.=20

"What we need, unfortunately, is examples of failures," Hooper said.=20
"That's going to start soon enough in 1999. And the private sector is=20
not going to share that information, so it's going to have to be up=20
to the federal government to step in."=20

But the federal government is in no shape to provide leadership.=20

Overall, one congressman gave the federal government a "D" on its=20
most recent year 2000 preparedness report card, up from the "F" it=20
received in June.=20

"This is not a grade you take home to your parents," said Rep. Steve=20
Horn, a California Republican and chairman of the House subcommittee=20
on government management of information and technology.=20

Horn predicts the government will not be able to fix a substantial=20
number of "mission critical" systems by 2000. And the price tag to=20
fix the 24 governmental departments surveyed is $6.3 billion, up $1=20
billion from the estimate given by the Office of Management and=20
Budget.=20

"The executive branch has a deadline that cannot be extended," Horn=20
said. "There is no margin for error."=20

Closer to home, Kansas City is requiring all city departments to=20
submit contingency plans by October for dealing with the year 2000=20
problem.=20

What to look for: Will traffic lights work? Will prisoners be=20
released early if a computer mistakenly thinks an inmate has been=20
jailed for more than 100 years? Will fire trucks start, and what is=20
the backup plan if they don't?=20

"You don't want to overreact, and we're not," said John Franklin,=20
assistant city manager. "But there is a real issue here for public=20
managers that's kind of scary."=20

Elsewhere, Water District No. 1 of Johnson County will spend $1.56=20
million to fix 4,109 computer programs and 701,021 lines of code by=20
the end of next summer. The district says the job is 75 percent=20
complete, and General Manager Byron Johnson said he was confident the=20
district would be prepared.=20

But experts aren't prepared to declare victory.=20

"My whole theme from day one is we need answers," said Yardeni, the=20
Yale economist and managing director of Deutsche Bank Securities.=20
"I'm not trying to foment panic. I'm not trying to create revolution.=20
But you have to be a naive optimist to think things are going to be=20
pretty relaxed Jan. 1, 2000."=20






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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 13:40:20 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.15:Privacy Conference Announcement
Message-ID: <199810070334.UAA27043@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: "ama-gi ISPI" 
Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.15:Privacy Conference Announcement
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 00:53:20 -0700
To: 

ISPI Clips 5.15:Privacy Conference Announcement
News & Info from the Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI)
Monday October 5, 1998
ISPI4Privacy@ama-gi.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This From: ACLU of Wisconsin (Press Release)
acluwicmd@aol.com

Privacy Conference Announcement

ACLU of Wisconsin Data Privacy Project announces a privacy
conference on November 13, 1998 in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. The
conference is co-sponsored by University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee
Institute of World Affairs.  The event features keynote addresses by
Spiros Simitis, principal author of the "EU Directive on Data Protection"
and Stefan Walz, privacy commissioner for the German state of Bremen.

Registration information may be obtained from Carole Doeppers,
Director, Wisconsin Data Privacy Project, 122 State Street, Suite 407,
Madison, WI  53703. Or contact her by phone (608-250-1769),
fax (608-258-9854) or e-mail .


"Data Privacy in the Global Age",
Friday, November 13, 1998,
Italian Conference Center, Milwaukee

Registration Fee: $175
Limited number of scholarships available upon request

Conference lodging:
Astor Hotel 1-800-242-0355 (in state)
1-800-558-0200 (outside Wisconsin)




Conference Program:  November 13


Welcome and Introductions

Keynote Address:

"The EU Directive: Its Impact on Electronic Commerce with Third Countries"
Dr. Spiros Simitis, principal author of the "EU Directive on Data
Protection


Concurrent Sessions:

"The Internet: New Frontiers for Privacy and the Law"

Moderator:
                    Andrea Schneider,
                    Professor, Marquette University School of Law

Panelists:
                    Fred Cate, Author and Professor,
                    Indiana University School of Law

                    Timothy Muth, Attorney and Chair,
                    Milwaukee Bar Association's Technology Committee


"A New Electronic Bill of Rights:  Good or Bad for Business?"

Moderator:
                    David Luce, Professor Emeritus,
                    UW-Milwaukee Philosophy Department

Panelists:
                    Evan Hendricks, Editor/Publisher, Privacy Times

                    Paola Benassi, Operations Manager, TRUSTe


Luncheon


Afternoon Keynote Address:

"The German Approach to Data Protection"
Dr. Stefan Walz, Privacy Commissioner, German State of Bremen


Concurrent Workshops:

"Trade-off of Values: Freedom of Information vs. Information Privacy"

Moderator:

                    Len Levine, Professor,
                    UW-Milwaukee Computer Science Department

Panelists:

                    Marty Kaiser, Editor, Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel

                    James Friedman, Legal Counsel, Wisconsin FOI Council

                    Don Gemberling, Director, Information & Policy
Division.
                    Minnesota Department of Administration

                    Charles Sykes, Author and Radio Talk-Show Host



"Developing Your Own Fair Information Practices:  Balancing Commercial and
Consumer Rights"

Moderator:

                    David Flaherty, Commissioner,
                    Office of Information and Privacy, British Columbia

Discussants:

                    Patrick Sullivan, Partner, PricewaterhouseCoopers LLP

                    James O'Brien, Vice President, Sun Tzu Security Ltd.


Reception

--------------------------------NOTICE:------------------------------
ISPI Clips are news & opinion articles on privacy issues from
all points of view; they are clipped from local, national and international
newspapers, journals and magazines, etc. Inclusion as an ISPI Clip
does not necessarily reflect an endorsement of the content or opinion
by ISPI. In compliance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed free without profit or payment for non-profit research
and educational purposes only.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

ISPI Clips is a FREE e-mail service from the "Institute for the Study
of Privacy Issues" (ISPI). To receive "ISPI Clips" on a regular bases
(up to 3 - 8 clips per day) send the following message  "Please
enter [Your Name] into the ISPI Clips list: [Your e-mail address]" to:
ISPIClips@ama-gi.com  .

The Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) is a small
contributor-funded organization based in Victoria, British Columbia
(Canada). ISPI operates on a not-for-profit basis, accepts no
government funding and takes a global perspective.

ISPI's mandate is to conduct & promote interdisciplinary research
into electronic, personal and  financial privacy with a view toward
helping ordinary people understand the degree of privacy they have
with respect to government, industry and each other and to likewise
inform them about techniques to enhance their privacy.

But, none of this can be accomplished without your kind and
generous financial support. If you value in the ISPI Clips service or if
you are concerned about the erosion of your privacy in general, won't
you please help us continue this important work by becoming an "ISPI
Clips Supporter" or by taking out an institute Membership?

We gratefully accept all contributions:

  Less than $60    ISPI Clips Supporter
          $60 - $99    Primary ISPI Membership (1 year)
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Your ISPI "membership" contribution entitles you to receive "The ISPI
Privacy Reporter" (our bi-monthly 12 page hard-copy newsletter in
multi-contributor format) for the duration of your membership.

For a contribution form with postal instructions please send the following
message "ISPI Contribution Form" to ISPI4Privacy@ama-gi.com .

We maintain a strict privacy policy. Any information you divulge to ISPI
is kept in strict confidence. It will not be sold, lent or given away to
any third party.











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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 13:39:04 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Worth Reading: Fwd from Gary North: Y2K
Message-ID: <199810070334.UAA27059@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Worth Reading: Fwd from Gary North: Y2K
Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 09:46:30 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Forwarded from Gary North:
-------------------

     By now you know my concern over the Year 2000 Problem: the
collapse of the division of labor.  As Leonard Read wrote in "I,
Pencil," no one knows how to make a pencil.  It's too
complicated: cut wood, carbon, paint, rubber, metal.  A pencil
can exist only because the division of labor exists.  But if a
pencil is too difficult to make, what about replacement parts for
a dam? What about an automobile?

     But could this really happen?  Wrong question: How will this
not happen?  There is not one compliant bank on earth, not one
compliant public utility, not one compliant industry.  Yet we
have only 15 months to go.  And in between now and then,
worldwide panic will hit, making code-correction very difficult.
Also, the latest estimate of embedded chips is 70 billion.  The
latest estimated failure rate for embedded systems is 10% to 20%.

     All of our management systems rely on mainframe computers.
The people who ran the pre-computer management systems in 1965
have been fired or have retired.  The knowledge they had went
with them.  They were replaced by digital idiot savants.  These
idiot savants are not flexible.  Dustin Hoffman's character in
Rainman was a model of flexibility compared to a computer.
Computers do exactly what they were programmed to do.  They do
not listen to reason.  They do not hear your screams.  Their
attitude is best expressed by Rhett Butler as he walked away from
Scarlett for the last time.

     Look ahead.  It's Friday, January 14, 2000.  You are
standing in front of a bank teller.  You have stood in line for
three hours.  There is a line of 200 people behind you.  You have
your bank statement from last month.  It says you have $4,517.22
in your checking account.  But your checks have all bounced:
"Account closed."  Every account is automatically closed after
two years of no activity, and your account had no activity from
1/1/1900 (00) to 1/1/1902 (02).  Now you want your bounced checks
cleared.  The teller says, "I'm sorry.  Our computer shows the
account is closed."  "Well, then, re-open it."  "Are you making a
deposit?"  "No."  "Then I can't re-open it."  Problem: you now
have no money.  The account is closed.  Your printed records are
for last month.  Maybe you spent all that money on Christmas.
She has no idea.  "I am not authorized to give you cash."  (Well,
maybe $200, by government decree.)  What are you going to do?  It
will take many months to fix this for every depositor on earth.
The banks will not survive for weeks.

     She has no authority to veto the computer.  Nobody does.
There is no alternative management system in place that will
enable a bank's employees to fix the accounts and clear all
checks and credit card transactions.  All banks must stop
accepting checks and credit card accounts until there is a way to
clear the accounts.  There is no way.  Their management systems
must be redesigned to go back to 1965, all over the world: a
paper and ink system.  But there is no time to do this.  This
would take years even if all the banks stayed up.  But they will
all go down.  Any bank that is forced out of the capital markets
for a week will go bankrupt -- two weeks, for sure.  But if they
are all out of the capital markets, there will be no capital
markets.  That means Western civilization will shut down:
"Account closed."

     "Our computer is down."  These four words may kill you.
Literally.  If you do not have financial reserves that are not
electronic, these four words will strip you of your ability to
buy and sell.  And not just you: everyone.  The division of labor
will collapse.

     How will society produce a pencil?  Or repair parts for a
power generation plant?

     Think ahead.  Sit down with a pen and paper.  (It's good
practice for the future.)  Think of every situation in which your
life would be disrupted by the words, "Our computer is down."  If
you could not get your immediate problem solved because of these
for words, for just 60 consecutive days, what would happen to
you?  Think this through.

     Which local systems are threatened?  Here is a preliminary
list: banks, paychecks, supermarkets, drug stores (all
prescriptions on computer), the water/sewer company, the electric
utility, telephone service.  If you lack imagination here, rent
The Trigger Effect.

     Now let's move outward toward local emergency institutions.
Think of the another missing 9 and two more 1's: 9-1-1.  The
police, the fire department, hospitals, ambulances.  The phones
may or may not be down, but 911 switchboards are only rarely
compliant today.

     Now let's move farther outward into the world of capital:
money market fund, mutual fund, pension fund, bond fund,
insurance, second mortgages, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid,
IRS refunds.  You just lost your retirement money.  If your home
burns down, you'll not get a replacement unless you have gold
coins or cash to buy a used one.  If you die, your wife will get
nothing that isn't close at hand, i.e., in hand.

     "Our computer is down."  This phrase will serve nicely as an
epitaph for our civilization.  Only if the computers don't go
down, and also don't make bad calculations, can the West avoid
this epitaph.  But if they are not fixed, they will go down or go
nuts.


         A BILLION LIVES LOST, IF THINGS GO FAIRLY WELL

     I have been writing for over a year on this with all the
skill I have.  I simply cannot get it across to all of you, or
even to most of you.  I am never at a loss for words, but I am at
a loss for persuasion.  I have been unable to persuade the vast
majority of my readers, after almost two years, that if the
division of labor collapses, we will lose millions of lives.  Joe
Boivin, who was the y2k director for Canada's Imperial Bank and
Commerce until he quit, estimates that a billion people will die
in 2000.  He limits his discussion to the third world.  I think
we could lose half a billion in the urban West.

     Unthinkable?  All right, show me how any large city will
survive if the power goes off for 60 days, all railroad
deliveries of grain and coal stop, all gasoline station pumps
shut down, and there are no banks.  Go on.  I'm serious.  Sit
down and outline a scenario that will keep an urban population
alive without mainframe computers.

     The army?  There are 120 U.S. cities that the government has
targeted as vulnerable to cyberwarfare.  There are 1.4 million
people in the entire U.S. military.  Few have any training for
riot control and food delivery.  The government cannot provide
such training without creating a panic.  The military is
dependent on the civilian communications system.  How will 1.4
million untrained military personnel -- including the Navy --
police a destitute population of 60 million urban residents, not
counting the suburbs?  That's 11,666 people per city.  But the
large cities will get the lion's share.  What about where you
live?  The bands of arsonists and rioters are loose in your city.
What will your police do?  I'll tell you: they will stay home if
they are not being paid.  And if the banks are down, they will
not be paid.

     I know what you're thinking.  "They just can't let this
happen."  What can "they" do to stop it?  The United States is
short 500,000 to 700,000 mainframe programmers.

     Roberto Vacca wrote The Coming Dark Age in 1973.  He did not
forecast y2k.  If he had, the book would have been far more
persuasive.  His point was that our technology has extended
beyond what we can understand.  I was not impressed because that
is true of the free market at all times.  This is the genius of
the free market.  No one understands all of the interconnections,
yet we prosper.  So, I dismissed the book's thesis.  What I did
not see, and he did not see, was y2k.  We have transferred to
digital idiot savants all authority to make decisions that men
found either too boring or too complex to make.  We removed this
decision-making authority from people and delegated it to
machines.


              FROM ANALOGICAL TO DIGITAL AND BACK

     It's time to talk theology.  Cornelius Van Til argued that
men must think God's thoughts after Him -- analogically.  God is
a person.  He's also three persons.  We are persons.  Our
universe reflects God's personality.  We don't live in an
impersonal world.  The biblical doctrine of the creation forces
us to accept the doctrine of cosmic personalism.

     Modern computers do not think.  They count.  But modern man
since the Renaissance has believed that number, not God's written
revelation, is the touchstone of truth.  He has believed that
mankind's inability to comprehend (surround mentally) the
infinitely complex universe can be compensated for.  Man can use
numerical formulas to substitute for omniscience.  He can take a
shortcut to omniscience.  He can develop numerical formulas that
allow him to control the external world, which is controlled by
number.  Why a capacity of the mind -- numerical coherence --
should also control the external realm is a great mystery.  In
fact, as Nobel Prize physicist Eugene Wigner said in a 1960
essay, the effectiveness of number in science is unreasonable.
But it does work within creation's limits.

     Men have sought numerical shortcuts to cosmic knowledge and
cosmic power.  They have found many shortcuts, and on these
shortcuts modern science rests.  But then, in the 1950's,
programmers took another shortcut -- a digital shortcut.  They
saved two holes out of 80 in IBM punch cards.  This seemingly
minor shortcut has brought society to the brink of destruction.
We are not lemmings rushing to destruction.  We are sheep being
driven toward a cliff by idiot savants, to whom we have delegated
control over our affairs.

     Man worships science and its shortcuts.  He worships the
creations made by his own hands and  mind.  We will soon find
that such idolatry is always deadly.  Modern man thinks he has
shoved God out of the universe.  He has used Darwinism and a
theory of vast cosmic impersonal time to remove Him from man's
newly acquired domain.  Natural selection has replaced God's
purpose.  Cosmic time has replaced the six-day creation.  But now
we face the institutional monstrosity of the digital
impersonalism of the idiot savants.  Computers can count.  Can
they ever count!  But the dates they use after '99 will be wrong.



                       WHAT WILL YOU DO?

     You should now have a list of services and goods that will
no longer be provided if the computers go down.  It's a long
list.  You need a second list.  What items must you buy now that
can substitute for these lost services?  You can't afford to buy
them all.  There will be a panic to buy such goods next year.  It
has already begun (e.g., Chinese diesel generators).  Where will
you get the fuel for a generator?  Electricity for a well pump?
Propane for a cook stove?  Heat in the winter?  Think of Montreal
last January.

     But will the computers go down?  Senator Robert Bennett said
it well on July 14 at a National Press Club speech.  If 2000 were
the next day, this civilization might collapse.   But, he said,
we can save it between July 15 and Jan. 1, 2000.  To which I
reply: How?  What is being done, worldwide, to avoid the death of
the computers?  Not just in the U.S. -- worldwide?  Almost
nothing.  There are not enough skilled programmers.

     I suppose you get tired of reading about this.  I am surely
tired of writing it.  But until I can no longer mail this
newsletter, or until all the computers are fixed in late 1999, I
will continue to nag you . . . not to death -- to life.  As it
stands today, if tomorrow were 2000, we would see the end of
this civilization in 60 days.  If you think I'm wrong, jot down
those life-support systems that are 2000- compliant today.  It's
an empty list.  How will we get from empty to fixed, worldwide,
in the next 15 months?  This is not a trick question.  It's a
life-and-death question.  Do you have an answer and a contingency
plan?  Don't wait for leadership on this matter.  Leaders are in
y2k denial.  You must lead.  If you won't, who will?  You are
responsible for you.  What will you do?  How soon?


Sincerely,

Gary North




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 13:39:41 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: "Big Brother" Watches "Big Brother"
Message-ID: <199810070334.UAA27073@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: roundtable 
Subject: IP: "Big Brother" Watches "Big Brother"
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 16:30:20 -0400
To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com

On Tuesday April 28, 1998 COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS MEMBER Senate
=46inance Committee Chairman William Roth, sited several incidents describin=
g
mistreatment by the criminal  investigation division of the IRS.

The same day The Treasury Department announced  that former CIA and FBI
chief  COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS MEMBER William Webster would head up a
special investigation of the IRS's criminal investigation division.

Sunday May 4, 1998 on the CBS show Face the Nation,  COUNCIL ON FOREIGN
RELATIONS MEMBER Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan said "The IRS is not out
of control, it's just not under control,"  "There is no management system."
"The criminal division (of the IRS) got out of control. That SWAT team
breaking into businesses with body armor and automatic weapons - now what's
that?" asked Moynihan. "That is no way to behave with taxpayers. We can get
this under control and will."

COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS MEMBER Moynihan expressed confidence in
Congress and the agency's new director, COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS MEMBER
Charles O. Rossotti, to create such a system and give it a face that is
friendlier to the public than the aggressive, arm-twisting "Big Brother"
described by taxpayers at Senate Finance Committee hearings held the  week
of April 28th, and in September 1997.

COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS MEMBER Charles O. Rossotti may be able to give
the system  a friendly face  The problem is the friendly face will do
little more than hide the same "Big Brother" tactics. Wiretaps may be one
of those tactics.

Some insight into how COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS MEMBER William Webster
thinks, is found in the USA Today article that follows.  The article is
about a record number of "Big Brother" wiretaps in the US. The excuse for
the wiretaps "is a stepped-up federal response to increased terrorist
activity on American soil. Opponents argue that the process endangers the
very liberties it seeks to protect."

COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS MEMBER William Webster, head of the
investigative team looking into "Big Brother" IRS abuses, is a proponent of
increased "Big Brother" wiretaps who believes,

 	"This issue is where the rubber hits the road," said  [COUNCIL ON
=46OREIGN RELATIONS MEMBER] William Webster, who headed the FBI in 1978 when
the law allowing the secret wiretaps was passed. "It's where we try to
balance the concept of our liberty against what has to be done to protect
it."

The USA Today article follows:

>Hunt for terrorists brings about record rise in U.S. wiretaps
>By Richard Willing / USA TODAY [ October 5, 1998]
>>[ http://detnews.com:80/1998/nation/9810/04/10040083.htm ]
>
>WASHINGTON -- Federal judges operating in secret courts are authorizing
>unprecedented numbers of wiretaps and clandestine searches aimed at spies
>and terrorists in the United States, Justice Department records show.
>
> During the past three years, an average of 760 wiretaps and searches a
>year were carried out, a 38-percent increase from the 550 a year from
>1990-94.
>
> Federal judges have authorized a yearly average of 463 ordinary wiretaps
>since 1990 in drug, organized crime and other criminal cases.
>
> Part of the growth in surveillance is attributed to an increase in
>espionage and terrorist activities in the country.
>
> "There's a greater quantity of the folks who are potentially problematic
>out there," said Jamie Gorelick, who as deputy attorney general from
>1994-97 helped review wiretap applications.
>
> Proponents say the surveillance reflects a stepped-up federal response to
>increased terrorist activity on American soil.
>
> Opponents argue that the process endangers the very liberties it seeks to
>protect.
>
> "This issue is where the rubber hits the road," said  [COUNCIL ON FOREIGN
>RELATIONS MEMBER] William Webster, who headed the FBI in 1978 when the law
>allowing the secret wiretaps was passed. "It's where we try to balance the
>concept of our liberty against what has to be done to protect it."
>
> The wiretaps, which are applied for by the Justice Department under the
>Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act and carried out by the FBI and
>National Security Agency, have received their greatest use yet under
>President Clinton and Atty. Gen. Janet Reno.
>
> Since 1995, Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act courts also have
>authorized searches of the homes, cars, computers and other property of
>suspected spies. In its two decades, those courts have approved 11,950
>applications and turned down one request.
>
> Generally, defense lawyers can challenge the basis for authorizing a
>wiretap. But supporting information for wiretaps authorized by those
>courts is sealed for national security reasons.
>
> "It legitimizes what would appear to be contrary to constitutional
>protections," said Steven Aftergood, privacy specialist at the Federation
>of American Scientists. "It's a challenge to the foundation of American
>liberties."
>
>Opponents also say the government is using the wiretaps to replace
>conventional criminal searches, which must meet a higher legal standard.
>
> "There's a growing addiction to the use of the secret court as an
>alternative to more conventional investigative means," said Jonathan
>Turley, law professor at George Washington University in Washington, D.C.
>
> The wiretaps are meant to develop intelligence, not to help make criminal
>cases. But the wiretap information was used to secure guilty pleas from
>CIA turncoats Aldrich Ames in 1994 and Harold Nicolson in 1997.
>
> How the surveillance act works
>
>    * The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 created a special
>secret court for authorizing wiretaps on suspected spies.
>     * The court was intended by Congress as a check against the power of
>presidents, who until 1978 had authorized wiretaps and warrantless
>searches in the name of national security.
>     * The law requires the Justice Department, and usually the FBI or the
>National Security Agency, to show a judge that the target is a foreign
>government or agent engaging in "clandestine intelligence gathering
>activities" or terrorism.

roundtable
___

Visit the Roundtable Web Page: http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/2807

Title-50 War and National Defense =A7 783 states - "It shall be unlawful for
any person knowingly to combine, conspire, or agree with any other person
to perform any act which would substantially contribute to the
establishment within the United States of a totalitarian dictatorship, the
direction and control of which is to be vested in, or exercised by or under
the domination of control of, any foreign government."

The Council on Foreign Relations are in violation of Title-50 War and
National Defense =A7 783. The Council on Foreign Relations has unlawfully an=
d
knowingly combined, conspired, and agreed to substantially contribute to
the establishment of one world order under the totalitarian dictatorship,
the direction and the control of members of Council on Foreign Relations,
the Royal Institute of International Affairs, and members of their branch
organizations in various nations throughout the world. That is
totalitarianism on a global scale.

____
Visit the Roundtable Web Page: http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/2807
E-mail: roundtable@mail.geocities.com
read on-line: Psychological Operations In Guerrilla Warfare ( The CIA's
Nicaragua Manual); The Secret Team by Fletcher Prouty;  The NAFTA PSYOP;
Nitze's Not-Sees;   & More
visit: U.S. Army War College - Meet Henry L. Stimson and Elihu Root
Professors of Military Studies







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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 13:39:44 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: "The Internet 1998: The end of the beginning"
Message-ID: <199810070334.UAA27086@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: "The Internet 1998: The end of the beginning"
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 05:57:25 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  Business Today
http://www.businesstoday.com/techpages/wsj2100598.htm

BT EXCLUSIVE: The Internet 1998: The end of the beginning 

by Bill Burke/BusinessToday staff 

The Internet is not going away, but it is about to undergo a facelift.

With the demand for faster, more reliable data communications access
growing, some technology pundits are predicting the death of the Internet.

Radio took 38 years to reach an audience of 50 million people, according to
Sprint CEO William T. Esrey. The Internet has taken only four years to
reach that same audience. Despite that growth, it has reached critical mass
and is due flare out in the near future, he said.

"The Internet is going away," Esrey said. "The Internet will be replaced
with other networks."

But according to a panel at the Wall Street Journal Technology Summit this
morning, that demise is being prematurely reported.

"One of the beauties of the Internet is that it can change in several
places simultaneously," said Robert Metcalfe, vice president of Technology,
International Data Group. "There are five or 10 next generation Internets
coming." 

However, there are threats to the growth of the new Net. The first 25 years
of the Internet has been characterized by governmental subsidies and
community cooperation. Recently, the financial payoff has led to heretofore
unseen posturing and political infighting -- something that could threaten
the development of future networks, according to John M. McQuillan,
president of McQuillan Consulting.

Add in new technologies, however, and the next generation begins to take
shape.

"I think where we are with the Internet where we were 100 years ago with
electricity," said Paul R. Gudonis, president of GTE Internetworking.
"We're still in the early stages of this."

Gudonis said the Internet is about to become more applications-based,
forcing businesses to re-think their approach.

"Business is going through an adoption cycle," he said. "Now we're seeing
the second coming of re-engineering."

Changes will come in how corporations go about prospecting, learning how to
sell, and "totally revamping how they actually do business."

As a result, companies are preparing for the next incarnation, building a
massive new backbone for each new network, and preparing for, among other
things, streaming video.

"Everybody's getting ready for video," Gudonis said. "Everybody's going to
go camera crazy, I think."

But the bottom line is that capitalism has met the Net, and it will not be
the same.

"Where we are, is at the end of the beginning of the Internet," McQuillan
said.
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 13:40:53 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Heavy Leonid meteor shower threatens communications
Message-ID: <199810070334.UAA27097@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Heavy Leonid meteor shower threatens communications
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 06:11:35 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  San Francisco Examiner
http://www.examiner.com/981004/1004meteor.shtml

Heavy Leonid meteor shower threatens communications

Annual light show biggest in 32 years

By Keay Davidson
EXAMINER SCIENCE WRITER

A spectacular meteor storm will ignite the heavens in mid-November,
possibly "sandblasting" satellites and threatening everyday services from
cell phones to TV shows to data communications.

The last great meteor barrage came in 1966, when space satellites were far
less common - and far less essential to everyday life. Back then, thousands
of meteors per minute shot across the North American sky.

Today, the skies are jammed with satellites that aid in weather
forecasting, relay data communications and TV signals, and enable military
surveillance.

The world's satellite network is a juicy target for the blistering
celestial rain.

Although the meteors are smaller than grains of sand, they travel
tremendously fast - more than 40 miles per second, equivalent to a
10-second flight from San Francisco to Los Angeles. As a result, they could
knock out or disrupt some satellites' delicate electronics.

"This meteoroid storm will be the largest such threat ever experienced by
our critical orbiting satellite constellations," William H. Ailor, director
of the Center for Orbital and Reentry Debris Studies at the Aerospace Corp.
in El Segundo, Los Angeles County, told the House Science Committee on May 21.

The 1966 storm appeared over continental North America, but this year's
main aerial assault will be visible from Japan, China, the Philippines and
other parts of east Asia, and possibly Hawaii. The meteors are debris from
a comet, Tempel-Tuttle.

Scientists from NASA's Ames Research Center in Mountain View hope to study
the shower from aircraft flying out of Okinawa, says Ames principal
investigator Peter Jenniskens. They hope to broadcast live TV images of the
shower over the World Wide Web.

The "Leonid" meteor shower is so named because the meteors appear to
emanate from the direction of the constellation Leo. Actually, the shower
is a cloud of rocky particles orbiting the sun. 

Annual event

Earth crosses the cloud's path every Nov. 17 and 18. At that time, amateur
astronomers enjoy seeing the "Leonids" zip across the sky, sometimes
several per minute.

But every 30-plus years, our planet crosses a particularly dense part of
the Leonid cloud. So the "shower" becomes a "storm," with up to 40 meteors
per second and sometimes 50,000 per hour.

Although very tiny, the particles move so fast that the friction with
Earth's atmosphere will cause them to burn and glow. Visible from hundreds
of miles away, they will make the sky look like fireworks.

NASA plans to turn the Hubble Space Telescope away from the storm so
meteors that hit the giant orbital telescope will miss its super-delicate
mirror, says NASA spokesman Don Savage.

"NASA is taking (the shower) seriously," Savage said. "We have been
assessing what we need to do to ensure our satellites in Earth orbit are
going to be operated in a safe manner during this meteor shower."

Other satellites might be temporarily re-oriented so that they present the
narrowest "cross section" - the smallest target.

"We are concerned, and we have been in meetings and making plans concerning
the Leonid shower," said U.S. Army Maj. Mike Birmingham, a spokesman for
the U.S. Space Command in Colorado, which monitors
American military and spy satellites.

In his congressional testimony, Ailor said that "because of the very high
speed of the particles - they will be moving at speeds of over... 155,000
mph - the storm poses an even greater and somewhat unknown threat."

Most particles tiny

"Fortunately, most of the particles... are very small, smaller than the
diameter of a human hair, and won't survive passage through the Earth's
atmosphere," Ailor said. "Our satellites, however, are (in space and) not
protected by the atmosphere, so they will be 'sandblasted' by very small
particles traveling more than 100 times faster than a bullet. 

"At these speeds, even a tiny particle can cause damage or electrical
problems," Ailor said. "While major holes and physical damage to solar
panels and structures are very unlikely, impacts of small particles will
create an electrically charged plasma which can induce electrical shorts
and failures in sensitive electronic components."

Last month, an immense wave of radiation from a neutron star washed over
Earth, causing at least two scientific satellites to shut down to protect
their electronics.

Astronomers said the star, in a constellation about 20,000 light-years
away, had unleashed enough energy to power civilization for a
billion-billion years. But by the time the radiation found its way across
the cosmos and through the atmosphere, it was no stronger than a typical
dental X-ray, scientists said.

No conflict with space missions

The upcoming meteor shower is not expected to conflict with scheduled space
missions.

The first components of the international space station - a kind of village
in space - aren't planned for launch until late November and December,
after the shower, Savage said.

U.S. Sen. John Glenn, an Ohio Democrat and former astronaut, is scheduled
to rocket into orbit on the space shuttle Oct. 29, returning before the
Leonid shower.

Armed with sensitive monitors, Jenniskens' colleagues will study the
meteors' "spectra" - frequencies of light that reveal the particles'
chemical composition - through portholes in the roof of a plane. Scientists
will also
study the particles' effects on atmospheric chemistry, such as the ozone
layer that shields us from cancer-causing solar radiation.

The scientists hope to measure the particle stream, which may be as dense
as one extremely small particle every 10 square meters. If so, then every
satellite in the sky may get hit, Jenniskens say.

Jenniskens' project - involving some 30 scientists and two aircraft - is
funded by NASA, the U.S. Air Force and the National Center for Atmospheric
Research in Boulder, Colo.

He hopes to transmit high-resolution TV images of the incoming meteors via
TV or the Web across a 30-degree field of sky.

More information on the project is available on the Internet at
www-space.arc.nasa.gov/~leonid/.
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 13:41:55 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Cyberwar: Proper Vigilance Or Paranoia?
Message-ID: <199810070334.UAA27114@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Cyberwar: Proper Vigilance Or Paranoia?
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 06:16:19 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  ZDNet
http://www.zdnet.com/intweek/printhigh/100598/cover/chapter1.html

Cyberwar: Proper Vigilance Or Paranoia?

 By Will Rodger

The last war was on land, air and
sea. The next one may be on
your computer. Armed with
reams of data showing dramatic
increases in computer crime since
1995, a wide-ranging but
little-noticed federal working
group is moving swiftly to try to
 knit together a private and public partnership against
 armies of hackers, government spies and terrorist agents
 that could make cyberspace unsafe for democracy. 

 The fear: that no part of the industrialized world is safe
 from digital disaster. Successful attacks on power grids,
 hospitals, banks, farms, factories and railroad switches
 could plunge a target nation into chaos and dysfunction. 

 Administration officials say this is no joke, ticking off
 threats already encountered: 

A 19-year-old Israeli hacker, known as the
Analyzer, and two California teenagers successfully
penetrate U.S. Department of Defense computers in
February, setting off fears that their intrusions are
related to U.S. troop buildups against Iraq. 

Russian hacker Vladimir Levin breaks into Citibank
systems and steals $12 million in 1994. He escapes
arrest for one year, only to be brought to justice as
he gets off a flight to London and walks into the
arms of Interpol. 

A study by network security specialist Dan Farmer
that shows more than 60 percent of 1,700
high-profile Web sites - many run by banks - can be
broken into or destroyed using a program he
designed to probe for weaknesses no system
administrator should allow in the first place. 

 At the center of the U.S.' attempts to create a
 cyberdefense structure is the Critical Infrastructure
 Coordination Group, an assembly of cabinet
 undersecretaries and other senior officials sworn to work
 with the FBI and American business to protect a society
 that now depends on a safe, free flow of bits and bytes.
 But even as the defense structure emerges, civil
 libertarians, industry executives and even administration
 insiders worry about how well the Clinton administration or
 its successors can steer between protecting against all
 forms of disruption on one hand and creating a police state
 on the other. 

 Fears that police agencies will use the threat to gain
 unprecedented power "reflect a misunderstanding of what
 we're all about and what the administration is all about,"
 said Michael Vatis, director of the National Infrastructure
 Protection Center (NIPC) at the FBI. "We are structured
 as a real partnership [between government and free
 enterprise]. It's our own intention to bring people on board
 from the private sector. We all say the same thing." 

 But James Adams, former chief executive officer of United
 Press International and head of the newly formed
 Infrastructure Defense Inc. consultancy, said government
 must surrender more power first. "I don't think the
 government can any longer say we know what's good for
 you and we're going to take care of it. The government is
 becoming increasingly irrelevant. I'm not arguing that's a
 good thing or a bad thing - it's simply a fact." 

 Either way, bitter, seemingly endless disputes between the
 administration and the people whose cooperation it needs
 already have tainted the process of developing a national
 approach to protecting critical information assets, both
 sides said. A five-year battle over use and export of
 data-scrambling technologies crucial to data security, for
 instance, has alienated much of the computer industry. FBI
 demands that telephone companies spend hundreds of
 millions of dollars to make wiretaps easier to perform,
 meanwhile, have led to charges of betrayal by phone
 companies that claim they were promised more
 compensation than they're getting, and civil libertarians who
 say the new proposals invite abuse by rogue police. 

 As a result, what should be a cooperative effort to secure
 the nation from outside attacks threatens to bog down in a
 morass of mistrust and stony silence. 

 "Our members are scared to death of this whole program,"
 a Washington association executive said, insisting on
 anonymity. "You've got the FBI and the National Security
 Agency pushing this thing. These guys are spies. Then there
 are these 'private sector' groups springing up to coordinate
 'information sharing' about how different companies have
 these huge holes in their networks. Some of them are
 headed by ex-Defense Department people. The whole
 thing makes us paranoid." 

 Worse, still, the lobbyist said: The nation's chief computer
 security organization - the secretive, estimated
 50,000-employee National Security Agency (NSA) - is
 the same one responsible for wiretapping and signal
 interception everywhere outside the U.S. As long as the
 world's biggest Big Brother has a major role to play,
 business may be gun-shy of the program. 
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 13:40:53 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Spycam City: The surveillance society: part one
Message-ID: <199810070334.UAA27128@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Spycam City: The surveillance society: part one
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 06:18:00 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  Village Voice
http://www.villagevoice.com/ink/news/40aboal.shtml

Spycam City:  The surveillance society: part one 

 by Mark Boal 

 Cameras stare as you browse at Barnes and
 Noble or rent a video at Blockbuster. They record
 the way you handle the merchandise at Macy's or
 how you glide to the music at the Union Square
 Virgin Megastore. Grab a latte at Starbucks,
 brunch on borscht at Veselka, or savor a martini at
 the Union Bar: cameras are watching every sip you
 take. Peering from skyscrapers with lenses that can
 count the buttons on a blouse three miles away,
 they watch every move you make. 

 Even Rudy likes to watch.After testing reaction to
 the monitoring of parks, public pools, and subway
 platforms, the city is quietly expanding a pilot
 program on buses. Cameras indistinguishable from
 lampposts have advanced from the perimeter of
 Washington Square into the heart of the park.
 They're already hidden at some bus stops and
 intersections to snag speeders and parking perps.
 More are on the way. 

 The Housing Authority is rushing to put
 bulletproof cameras in corridors throughout city
 projects. 

 At P.S. 83 in the Bronx, covert cameras cover
 the schoolyard; six other Bronx schools will soon
 follow suit. 

 Even university students are under watch, as
 activists at City College realized last June when
 they found a camera hidden in the smoke detector
 outside their meeting room. The administration had
 put it there. 

 Two local jails--Valhalla and Dutchess
 County--are adding cameras to their guards'
 helmets to go along with the ones in the visiting
 rooms and some cells. 

 With little public awareness and no debate, the
 scaffolding of mass surveillance is taking shape."it's
 all about balancing a sense of security against an
 invasion of privacy," Rudolph Giuliani insists. But
 the furtive encroachment of surveillance is Norman
 Siegel's latest lost cause. "I feel like Paul Revere,
 shouting 'The cameras are coming, the cameras are
 coming.' " says the New York Civil Liberties
 Union's executive director. 

 All summer, a crew of NYCLU volunteers
 scoured Manhattan on a mission to pinpoint every
 street-level camera. Next month, Siegel will unveil
 their findings: a map showing that cameras have
 become as ubiquitous as streetlights. It's impossible
 to say how many lenses are trained on the streets
 of New York, but in one eight-block radius, the
 NYCLU found over 300 in plain sight. And as one
 volunteer acknowledges, "There are tons of hidden
 cameras we didn't catch." 

 That's because it's routine in the security trade to
 buttress visible cameras with hidden ones, "so
 everything's covered and it doesn't look like a
 fortress," as one consultant says. These spycams
 scan unseen in tinted domes, from behind mirrors,
 or through openings the size of a pinhole. Under
 the joystick command of a distant operator, they're
 capable of zooming in or spinning 360 degrees in
 less than a second. If you listen to the people who
 install them, cameras are as common and elusive as
 shadows. But does anybody really care? 

 No New York law regulates surveillance (except
 to require cameras at ATM machines). Statutes
 that prohibit taping private conversations have
 been outpaced by video technology. Your words
 can't be recorded without your consent, but you
 can be videotaped in any public place. And you
 don't own your image (except for commercial
 purposes). 

 It took the Supreme Court some 90 years to apply
 the Fourth Amendment's privacy protection to the
 telephone. Before a landmark 1967 case, it was
 legal to bug a phone booth. When legislators finally
 reined in wiretapping in 1968, video was a speck
 on the horizon, and cameras were excluded from
 the law. Now Congress is inundated with privacy
 bills, but few survive the combined resistance of
 manufacturers, service providers, law enforcement,
 and the media. 

 In 1991 and 1993, proposals to limit surveillance
 were killed in committee by a lobby of 12,500
 companies. Testifying against rules that would have
 required companies to notify their workers--and
 customers--of cameras, Barry Fineran of the
 National Association of Manufacturers called
 "random and periodic silent monitoring a very
 important management tool." This alliance backs its
 rhetoric with cash. During the 1996 Congressional
 campaign, finance and insurance companies alone
 invested $23 million in their antiprivacy agenda.
 And so the cameras keep rolling. 

 It's clear that surveillance makes many people feel
 safer. But researchers disagree about its value as a
 crime deterrent.The consensus is that cameras can
 curb spontaneous crimes like vandalism, but are
 less effective in stopping more calculated felonies.
 Though spycams are in banks and convenience
 stores, robberies at these places are staples of the
 police blotter. Hardcore crooks learn to work
 around surveillance: witness the masked bandit.
 And many cameras that promise security are only
 checked occasionally; their real purpose is not to
 stop a crime in progress, but to catch perps after
 the fact. Those reassuring cameras on subway
 platforms are there to make sure the trains run on
 time. 

 It's telling that the camera quotient is increasing in
 the midst of a dramatic decline in crime.Clearly the
 spread of surveillance has less to do with
 lawlessness than with order. "Just don't do anything
 wrong," advises the smiling cop monitoring the
 hidden cameras in Washington Square, "and you
 have nothing to worry about." 

 But Americans are worried. Last year, 92 percent
 of respondents told a Harris-Westin poll they were
 "concerned" about threats to privacy, the highest
 level since the poll began in the late '70s. Despite
 this concern, there's been little research into the
 effects of living in an omnivideo environment.
 Surveillance scholarship was hip in the '60s and
 '70s, but academic interest has dropped noticeably
 in the past 20 years. In the neocon '90s, the
 nation's preeminent criminologist, James Q.
 Wilson, says he "never studied the subject [of
 security cameras] or talked to anyone who has." 

 One reason for this apathy is the academy's
 dependence on government money. "Federal
 funding does not encourage this kind of research,"
 says sociologist Gary Marx, one of the few
 authorities on surveillance. "The Justice
 Department just wants to know about crime
 control. It's bucks for cops." In fact, Justice money
 is lavished, not on research but on surveillance
 hardware. 

 In this investigative void, a plucky new industry has
 sprung up. Sales of security cameras alone will
 total an estimated $5.7 billion by 2002. Cameras
 are now an integral part of new construction, along
 with sprinklers and smoke detectors. But the
 strongest sign that monitoring has gone mainstream
 is the plan by a security trade association to
 incorporate surveillance into the MBA curriculum. 

 Budding businessmen are interested in cameras
 because they are a cheap way to control
 wandering merchandise and shield against liability.
 Fast-food chains like McDonald's protect
 themselves from litigious customers with hidden
 camerasthat can catch someone planting a rat tail in
 the McNuggets. Surveillance also helps managers
 track workers' productivity, not to mention
 paper-clip larceny and xerox abuse. Though most
 employers prefer to scan phone calls and count
 keystrokes, it's legal in New York (and all but
 three states) for bosses to place hidden cameras in
 locker rooms and even bathrooms. 

 A 1996 study of workplace monitoring calculates
 that, by the year 2000, at least 40 million American
 workers will be subject to reconnaissance;
 currently, 85 percent of them are women, because
 they are more likely to work in customer service
 and data entry, where monitoring is commonplace.
 But that's changing as white-shoe firms like J.P.
 Morganput cameras in the corridors. 

 Meanwhile, in the public sector, New York City
 transit workers can expect scrutiny for "suspected
 malingering and other misuse of sick leave [by]
 confidential investigators using video surveillance,"
 according to a confidential MTA memo. Though
 the police would need a warrant to gather such
 information, employers don't."When most
 Americans go to work in the morning," says Lewis
 Maltby of the ACLU, "they might as well be going
 to a foreign country, because they are equally
 beyond the reach of the Constitution." 

 New York is hardly the only spy city. More than
 60 American urban centers use closed-circuit
 television in public places. In Baltimore, police
 cameras guard downtown intersections. In San
 Francisco, tiny cameras have been purchased for
 every car of the subway system. In Los Angeles,
 the camera capital of America, some shopping
 malls have central surveillance towers, and to the
 north in Redwood City, the streets are lined with
 parabolic microphones. Even in rustic Waynesville,
 Ohio, the village manager is proud of the cameras
 that monitor the annual Sauerkraut Festival. 

 America is fast becoming what Gary Marx calls "a
 surveillance society," where the boundary between
 the private and the public dissolves in adigital haze.
 "The new surveillance goes beyond merely
 invading privacy . . . to making irrelevant many of
 the constraints that protected privacy," Marx
 writes in Undercover: Police Surveillance in
 America. For example, mass monitoring allows
 police to eliminate cumbersome court hearings and
 warrants. Immediately after a crime, cops check
 cameras in the vicinity that may have captured the
 perp on tape. 

 So, as surveillance expands, it has the effect of
 enlarging the reach of the police. Once it becomes
 possible to bank all these images, and to call them
 up by physical typology, it will be feasible to set up
 an electronic sentry system giving police access to
 every citizen's comings and goings. 

 This apparatus isn't limited to cameras. Recent
 mass-transit innovations, such as the MetroCard,
 are also potential surveillance devices. A
 MetroCard's magnetic strip stores the location of
 the turnstile where it was last swiped. In the future,
 Norman Siegel predicts, it will be possible for
 police to round up suspects using this data. E-Z
 Passes already monitor speeding, since they
 register the time when drivers enter
 tollbooths.Once transportation credits and bank
 accounts are linked in "smart cards" (as is now the
 case in Washington, D.C.), new surveillance vistas
 will open to marketers and G-men alike. 

 Already the FBI clamors for the means to monitor
 any cell-phone call. Meanwhile other government
 agencies are developing schemes of their own. The
 Department of Transportation has proposed a rule
 that would encode state drivers' licenses, allowing
 them to double as national identity cards.
 Europeans know all about internal passports, but
 not even the East German Stazi could observe the
 entire population at a keystroke. "What the secret
 police could only dream of," says privacy expert
 David Banisar, "is rapidly becoming a reality in the
 free world." 

 What's more, spy cams are getting smaller and
 cheaper all the time. "A lens that used to be 14
 inches long can now literally be the size of my
 fingernail," says Gregg Graison of the spy shop
 Qüark. Such devices are designed to be hidden in
 everything from smoke detectors to neckties.
 Qüark specializes in souping up stuffed animals for
 use in monitoring nannies. A favorite hiding place is
 Barney's foot. 

 These devices reflect the growing presence of
 military hardware in civilian life. The Defense
 Department's gifts to retail include night-vision
 lenses developed during the Vietnam War and now
 being used to track pedestrians on 14th Street. A
 hundred bucks at a computer store already buys
 face-recognition software that was classified six
 years ago, which means that stored images can be
 called up according to biometric fingerprints. "It's
 all about archiving," says John Jay College
 criminologist Robert McCrie. And in the digital
 age, the zip drive is the limit. 

 The template for storing and retrieving images is
 Citibank's futuristic monitoring center in Midtown
 (this reporter was asked not to reveal the location),
 where 84 PCs flash images in near-real time from
 every branch in the city and beyond. Every day
 over a quarter of a million metro New Yorkers
 pass under these lenses. When the bank upgrades
 to digital in the next year or so, each image will be
 recorded and archived for 45 days. 

 What alarms civil libertarians is that "no one knows
 what happens to the tapes once they are recorded,
 or what people are doing with them," as Norman
 Siegel says. In fact, mass surveillance has created a
 new kind of abuse. Last summer, a police sergeant
 in Brooklyn blew the whistle on her fellow officers
 for improper use of their cameras. "They were
 taking pictures of civilian women in the area," says
 the policewoman's attorney, Jeffrey Goldberg,
 "from breast shots to the backside." 

 But you don't need a badge to spy, as plaintiffs
 around the country are discovering: 

 At a Neiman-Marcus store in California, a
 female worker discovered a hidden camera in the
 ceiling of her changing room that was being
 monitored by male colleagues. At the Sheraton
 Boston Hotel, a union president invited a comrade
 to view a videotape of himself in his underwear.
 The hotel was monitoring its workers' changing
 rooms. 

 In Maryland, a 17-year-old lifeguard was
 videotaped changing into her bathing suit by her
 supervisor at the county swimming pool. Elsewhere
 in that state, a couple discovered that a neighbor
 had installed two cameras behind bathroom heating
 ducts and had monitored them for six months. 

 On Long Island, a couple discovered a pinhole
 camera watching the bedroom of their rented
 apartment. It had been planted by the owner. In
 Manhattan, a landlord taped a tenant having sex
 with his girlfriend in the hallway, and presented it
 along with a suggestion that the tenant vacate the
 premises. He did. 

 In this laissez-faire environment, whoever
 possesses your image is free to distribute it. And
 just as images of Bill Clinton leading a young
 woman into his private alcove ended up on Fox
 News, so can your most private moments if they
 are deemed newsworthy--as one Santa Monica
 woman learned to her horror when footage of her
 lying pinned inside a crashed car, begging to know
 if her children had died, ended up as infotainment.
 The paramedic, as it turns out, was wired. 

 The harvest from hidden cameras can also end up
 on the Internet, via the many Web sites that offer
 pics of women caught unaware. There are hidden
 toilet cams, gynocams, and even the intrepid
 dildocam. Though some of these images are clearly
 staged, others are real.Their popularity suggests
 that whatever the rationale, surveillance cameras
 resonate with our desire to gaze and be gazed
 upon. As J.G. Ballard, author of the sci-fi classic
 Crash, putsit, these candid-camera moments "plug
 into us like piglets into a sow's teat, raising the
 significance of the commonplace to almost
 planetary dimensions. In their gaze, we expose
 everything and reveal nothing." But exposure can
 be a means to an end. "Once the new surveillance
 systems become institutionalized and taken for
 granted in a democratic society," warns Gary
 Marx, they can be "used against those with the
 'wrong' political beliefs; against racial, ethnic, or
 religious minorities; and against those with lifestyles
 that offend the majority." 

 Earlier this month, New York police taped large
 portions of the Million Youth March in Harlem.In
 the ensuing furor over whether the tapes accurately
 portrayed the police response to a rowdy activist,
 a more basic issue went unaddressed. Social
 psychologists say that taping political events can
 affect a participant's self-image, since being
 surveilled is unconsciously associated with
 criminality. Ordinary citizens shy away from politics
 when they see activists subjected to scrutiny. As
 this footage is splayed across the nightly news,
 everyone gets the meta-message: hang with
 dissenters and you'll end up in a police video. 

 But even ordinary life is altered by surveillance
 creep. Once cameras reach a critical mass, they
 create what the sociologist Erving Goffman called,
 "a total institution," instilling barely perceptible
 feelings of self-consciousness. This process
 operates below the surface of everyday
 awareness, gradually eroding the anonymity people
 expect in cities. Deprived of public privacy, most
 people behave in ways that make them
 indistinguishable: you're less likely to kiss on a park
 bench if you know it will be on film. Over the long
 run, mass monitoring works like peer pressure,
 breeding conformity without seeming to. 

 Communications professor Carl Botan
 documented these effects in a 1996 study of
 workplace surveillance. Employees who knew they
 were being surveilled reported higher levels of
 uncertainty than their co-workers: they were more
 distrustful of bosses, their self-esteem suffered, and
 they became less likely to communicate. The result
 was "a distressed work force." 

 The anxiety of being watched by an unseen eye is
 so acute that the 18th-century philosopher Jeremy
 Bentham made it the basis of his plan for a humane
 prison, in which inmates were to be controlled by
 the knowledge that they might be under
 observation. Bentham called this instrument of
 ambiguity the Panopticon. 

 Ever since then, the power of the watcher over the
 watched has been a focal point of thinking about
 social control. The philosopher Michel Foucault
 regarded the panoptic force as an organizing
 feature of complex societies. Surveillance, Foucault
 concluded, is the modern way of achieving social
 coherence--but at a heavy cost to individuality.
 Spycams are the latest incarnation of this impulse.
 Welcome to the New Improved
 Panopticon.Twenty-five years ago, Mayor John V.
 Lindsay installed cameras in Times Square. But he
 took them down after 18 months because they
 only led to 10 arrests--causing The New York
 Times to call this experiment "the longest-running
 flop on the Great White Way." No such ridicule
 has greeted Giuliani's far more ambitious
 surveillance plans and his cheeky assertion that
 "you don't have an expectation of privacy in public
 spaces." 

 It's a brave new world, but very different from the
 ones imagined by Aldous Huxley and George
 Orwell. Nineteen Eighty Four taught us to be
 alert to the black-booted tyrant. The Truman
 Show updates this Orwellian model as the saga of
 an ordinary man whose life is controlled by an
 omniscient "creator," a TV producer who orders
 the 5000 cameras surrounding his star to zoom in
 or pull back for the perfect shot. 

 As inheritors of Orwell's vision, we are unable to
 grasp the soft tyranny of today's surveillance
 society, where authority is so diffuse it's
 discreet.There is no Big Brother in Spycam City.
 Only thousands of watchers--a ragtag army as
 likely to include your neighbor as your boss or the
 police. In 1998, anybody could be watching you. 

 This is the first of a three-part series. 

 Part Two: Behold Jennifer, the Surveillance
 Celebrity 

 Additional reporting: Emily Wax. Research:
 Michael Kolber 
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 13:38:40 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: New Surveillance Face Mapping System
Message-ID: <199810070334.UAA27141@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: New Surveillance Face Mapping System
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 08:54:09 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  The London Independent
U.K. Section
http://www.independent.co.uk/

New spy system to 'map' suspects 

By Jason Bennetto, Crimes Correspondent 

A REVOLUTIONARY surveillance system that
allows the police to automatically identify the
faces of wanted criminals and suspects in seconds
is to be tested on the streets of Britain for the first
time. 

The "facial mapping" computer will be used to
catch muggers, burglars and shoplifters, but it is
expected to be extended to target other cases
including wanted killers, terrorists and missing
children. The Football Association is also
interested in using the technology to help pick out
known hooligans at matches. 

The system, known as Mandrake, is to be tested
by Scotland Yard and Newham borough council
in a six-month trial in east London, starting next
week. 

A computer data base of faces of offenders will
be compared with film taken by local authority
surveillance cameras in shopping centres, streets
and housing estates. The computer automatically
"matches" the faces of suspects and triggers an
alarm, warning the operator who then contacts
the police. 

More than 1,000 images can be examined per
second. It automatically ignores beards and
moustaches so offenders cannot hide under
disguises. 

Photo-fit images can also be included on the data
base but tests show they are less accurate than
photographs. 

The system was criticised yesterday by the civil
rights organisation Liberty, which said it could fall
foul of human rights and data protection
legislation. 

However the developers of Mandrake, the police
and local councils, believe the system could
revolutionise CCTV and, if it proves successful, is
likely to be used nation-wide. 

Facial recognition systems are already used in
Texas to stop sham marriages and on the
Mexican border to prevent illegal immigration. 

Under the trial, Scotland Yard is providing
dozens of photographs of wanted offenders, often
taken by surveillance cameras in shops and
banks. It will also supply pictures of convicted
criminals, mostly for offences such as street
robbery, burglary, and repeat shoplifting. 

The images will be placed on the computer which
measures dozens of key facial characteristics,
such as the eye shape and size. The computer
then scans all the faces picked out on CCTV and
will sound an alarm if it makes a match. 

The picture of suspect and the person they
supposedly resemble then automatically appear
on the CCTV operator's screen along with a
secret code number. The police are then sent the
pictures and the number via computer. 

The product, which has been developed by
Software and Systems International in Slough,
west of London, can be used to catch criminals
on the run or missing persons. More
controversially, it can also be used to track
suspects who the police believe may commit
offences. 

In future the police, customs, and immigration
officers could use it at ports to identify known
terrorists, smugglers and other criminals
attempting to enter the country. 

A Scotland Yard spokesman said the system had
an 80 per cent "hit" rate. On the question of civil
liberties, he argued: "If you are innocent you have
nothing to worry about." It has been tested at
Watford football ground, but the poor quality of
the surveillance equipment made it difficult for the
computer to make matches. 
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 13:40:07 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: SOROS: Must have economic "third way"
Message-ID: <199810070334.UAA27152@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: SOROS: Must have economic "third way"
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 08:56:17 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  The London Independent
U.K. Section
http://www.independent.co.uk/

Soros calls for new cash restraints

GEORGE SOROS, one of the world's leading
financiers, launched a scathing attack yesterday
on governments and bankers alike for causing a
financial crisis so severe that it could topple the
world's economic system. 

"I am very concerned because it will lead to
basically the breakdown of the global capitalist
system," he said. 

Coming from a pre-eminent global capitalist, his
words are all the more striking because he
advises new restraints on the movement of
international cash. 

He spoke as the annual meetings of the
International Monetary Fund and the World Bank
wrestled with a financial crisis that has wrecked
Asia and Russia and now threatens Latin
America. 

Mr Soros, in his speech and in a book to be
published next month, attacks free marketeers -
or "market fundmentalists," as he calls them - for
weakening the world financial system,
impoverishing developing countries and
threatening democracy itself. 

Governments have botched their efforts to tackle
the crisis. "The authorities have failed to control
the situation," he said. "The G7 or the G whatever
should have been shut into a room and hammered
this out." 

Mr Soros said that in the future, limits would have
to be put on the global casino to prevent it from
destabilising states and societies. 

"Some restraints on capital movements would
have been very useful to protect countries against
the onslaught of the wrecking ball," he said. 

"The free movement of capital, totally free flow, is
not advisable." 

Mr Soros is chairman of Soros Fund
Management, a leading financier who speculated
against the pound - and won handsomely - in
1992. But he has become increasingly convinced
that pure capitalism is just as dangerous to the
world as communism, and has become a leading
advocate of an economic third way. 

"We have been living with and basing ourselves
on a false model of how financial markets
operate," he said. 

Markets are capable of tipping into instability so
severe that it threatens the roots of democracy
itself. 

"It is market fundamentalism that has rendered the
global capitalist system unsound and
unsustainable," he writes in his book The Crisis of
Global Capitalism, a section of which was
released yesterday. 

So great had financial instability become that
"market fundamentalism is today a greater threat
to open society than totalitarian ideology", said
Mr Soros, who grew up under first Nazi, then
Communist rule in Hungary. 

"Market forces, if they are given complete
authority even in the purely economic and
financial arenas, will produce chaos and could
ultimately lead to the downfall of the global
democratic capitalist system." 

The impact had been particularly hard on
developing nations forced to follow the course set
by western institutions and banks, he said. 

"Conditions have tilted too far towards the
countries at the centre of capitalist system to the
detriment of countries at the periphery. These
conditions are unsustainable." 

The only way to recover from the present crisis
was to organise flows of capital back into the
developing countries, he argued, but so far the
IMF and western governments had been unwilling
to meet this challenge. 

City staff braced for tidal wave of sackings
as banks cut back 

Morale among City high-flyers has reached rock
bottom as they brace themselves for a wave of
redundancies over the coming weeks as a result
of the global financial crisis. 

Although redundancies have now, so far, been
limited, the fear of real collapse and a return to
the austerity of the early 1990's when blue chip
firms like Goldman Sachs were laying off staff by
the thousand, means conspicuous consumption
and optimism are becoming a thing of the past. 

The latest to feel the chill are staff at Warburg
Dillon Reed, one of the City's top securities firms
who are braced for substantial lay-offs in the
wake of last week's disclosures that the bank's
Swiss parent has suffered serious losses from its
investment in high risk hedge-funds. 

Insiders say that Warburg's 4,500 London-based
staff expect announcements detailing cutbacks
later this week. 

The latest quarterly survey of the UK Financial
Services industry by the Confederation of British
Industry and consultants
PricewaterhouseCoopers yesterday showed
business confidence among financial sector firms
falling to its lowest for eight years. 

Firms which have already announced lay-offs
since this present bout of turmoil hit financial
markets include ING Barings, Robert Fleming
and Japanese firms Daiwa and Nikko. 

One of the larger firms Merrill Lynch has already
cancelled its Christmas Party and ordered staff to
cut back on overseas travel, entertainment and
the use of mobile phones in an attempt to save
Ł150m this year. The firm lent billions to high risk
hedge funds. Jobs cuts are expected to follow. 

It is widely feared that at least one big
international bank could go under because of
losses to these highly speculative investment
operations despite last month's Ł2.4bn bail-out of
Long-Term Capital Management by a consortium
of big international banks. 

With nervous investors sitting on their hands,
traders have had more time to spend in City
drinking haunts to drown sorrows and swap
tidbits about the latest bank to hit trouble. 

The cutbacks are likely to be even more painful
this time round because of the speed with which
this crisis has hit. Many firms were still out there
trying to recruit until late into August, pushing up
salaries for some categories of staff to
stratospheric levels. 

Now those expansion plans have gone on hold.
Prestige office developments in the Square Mile
are being shelved as demand for space has
vanished overnight. 

"First to rise, first to go," said Joseph Toots, a
stockbroker, sipping a glass of zinfandel in a
Broadgate winebar. "My job may be a trifle
insecure at the moment, but who knows, lets wait
until Christmas." Mr Toots knows his bonus
which last year was "definitely six figure", will be
minimal this time around. "Good thing I bought my
house outright," he said. 

But it is not just sports car dealers and Dom
Perignon stockists who are monitoring the
situation with gloomy eyes. 

The downturn in the City is hitting at a time when
High Street shops are already deserted as a result
of the huge rise in the cost of borrowing since last
year. 

Contrary to common perception the City is not
the place where everybody earns a half million
pound bonus; many thirty-somethings are pushing
themselves to the limit, earning what sound like fat
salaries until you hear their commitments. It is
these middle-class, high-income people, whose
wealth is more a prospect than a reality who may
be hit the hardest. 

"We are going to have to have a serious rethink
about everything," said Julia, a consultant. She
says she and her husband are delaying the day
when they will have to sit down and face financial
reality. 

"We earn almost Ł100,000 between us, but with
the mortgage and the school and the nursery fees
(they have three small children) we're not going to
survive like this." 

She says she was depending on her share
portfolio to cover the mortgage on their three
bedroom terraced house in Islington and it doesn't
anymore. "The house may have to be sold," she
says, "and god knows how we will afford the
school fees." 

It may sound like a yuppie problem, but smaller
things have been known to drive people into
domestic conflict. 

Isobel Thacker, a banker, said the same problem
has just made her cancel plans to move house. "I
can't afford to move anymore, we're all staying
put," she said. 
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 13:40:35 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Did EU Scuttle Echelon Debate?
Message-ID: <199810070334.UAA27166@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Did EU Scuttle Echelon Debate?
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 09:25:41 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  Wired
http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/15429.html

 Did EU Scuttle Echelon Debate?
 By Niall McKay 

 5:15 p.m.5.Oct.98.PDT
 The European Parliament has swept aside
 concerns about alleged surveillance and spying
 activities conducted in the region by the US
 government, a representative for Europe's Green
 Party said Monday. 

 Specifically, the EU allegedly scuttled
 parliamentary debate late last month concerning
 the Echelon surveillance system. Echelon is a
 near-mythical intelligence network operated in
 part by the National Security Agency. 

 "The whole discussion was completely brushed
 over," Green Party member of European
 Parliament Patricia McKenna said. 

 The US government has refused even to
 acknowledge Echelon's existence. But since
 1988, investigative journalists and privacy
 watchdogs have uncovered details of a secret,
 powerful system that can allegedly intercept any
 and all communications within Europe. 

 According to scores of reports online and in
 newspapers, Echelon can intercept, record, and
 translate any electronic communication --
 telephone, data, cellular, fax, email, telex -- sent
 anywhere in the world. 

 The alleged system has only recently come
 under the scrutiny of the European Parliament,
 which has grown concerned about EU
 government and private sector secrets falling into
 US hands. 

 The debate fizzled mysteriously, said McKenna,
 who suggested that the Parliament is reluctant
 to probe the matter fully for fear of jeopardizing
 relations between the EU and the United States.

 "Basically they didn't want to rock the boat," she
 said. 

 Furthermore, she said the debate was held two
 days ahead of schedule, hindering preparations
 for the discussion by European Members of
 Parliament. 

 While the NSA has never officially recognized
 Echelon's existence, it has been the subject of
 heated debates in Europe following a preliminary
 report by the Scientific and Technical Options
 Assessment, a committee advising the
 parliament on technical matters. 

 On 19 September, the Parliament debated both
 the EU's relationship with the United States and
 the existence and uses of Echelon. 

 The Green Party believes the resolution to defer
 its decision on Echelon, pending further
 investigation, was influenced by pressure from
 the US government, which has tried to keep the
 system secret. 

 Glyn Ford, a member of the European
 Parliament for the British Labor Party and a
 director of STOA, missed the debate because of
 the schedule change but does not share the
 Green Party's view. 

 "There is not enough information on Echelon,
 beyond its existence, to debate the matter fully,"
 said Ford. 

 According to Ford, the Omega Foundation, a
 British human rights organization, compiled the
 first report on Echelon for the Parliament
 committee. 

 "It is very likely that Omega will be
 commissioned again," Ford said. "But this time I
 believe the EU will require direct input from the
 NSA." 

 Simon Davies, the director of the privacy
 watchdog group Privacy International sees the
 debate as a major civil rights victory. 

 "It's unheard of for a parliament to openly debate
 national security issues," said Davies. "This
 debate fires a warning shot across the bows of
 the NSA." 

 Echelon is said to be principally operated by the
 National Security Agency and its UK equivalent,
 the Government Communications Headquarters.
 It reportedly also relies on cooperation with other
 intelligence agencies in Canada, Australia, and
 New Zealand. 

 "These spy systems were seen as a necessary
 part of international security during the cold
 war," said Ford. "But there is no military reason
 for spying on Russia now unless they (NSA)
 want to listen to the sound of the proto-capitalist
 economy collapsing." 
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




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To subscribe or unsubscribe, email:
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 13:41:16 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Fwd: [Spooks] CIA needs spies. Care to join?
Message-ID: <199810070334.UAA27183@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: Bridget973@aol.com
Subject: IP: Fwd: [Spooks] CIA needs spies. Care to join?
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 19:10:31 EDT
To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com

Subject:        [Spooks] CIA needs spies. Care to join?
Date:            Mon, 05 Oct 1998 22:48:59 -0500
From:           Bob Margolis 
To:               Spooks 




>From the Christian Science Monitor--OCT 5

Cheers,

Bob Margolis

===========

Help Wanted  
   The blonde - a cross between TV's ``La Femme Nikita'' and a  
Washington lawyer - grins knowingly out of the glossy pages of an 
international news magazine. 
   ``Do you have what it takes?'' asks the bold advertising line just  
over her shoulder, paid for by the Directorate of Operations (DO), the 
clandestine service of the Central Intelligence Agency. 
   ``Did you see that one?'' CIA Director George Tenet asks  
enthusiastically of the ad. ``We worked on another one that says, 'If 
you ever liked taking apart your radio and putting it back together, 
we might have a job for you.''' 
   Blame the tight labor market, budget cuts, or low morale fueled by  
post-cold-war mission confusion, but the ad in London's The Economist 
illustrates an acute problem the CIA no longer wants to keep secret: 
It's fast running out of spies. 
   To counter the flight of experienced operatives trained in  
skullduggery, the agency has embarked on the most aggressive 
recruiting drive in its five-decade history. If it can't bolster the 
number of case officers, experts say, the CIA runs the risk of being 
caught flat-footed, as with India's nuclear tests this spring, which 
caught the agency - and thus the United States - unawares. 
   ``We anticipate the current program will rebuild the  
operations-officer cadre by more than 30 percent over the next seven 
years,'' says CIA spokeswoman Anya Guilsher. Augmenting a national 
media campaign is the college-campus recruitment program that has been 
under way for years. 
   But while the agency used to actively recruit at 120 colleges, it  
is now concentrating its efforts at half that number, pinpointing 
universities with strong computer and technical programs and those 
with large numbers of minorities. 
   In addition to the fresh crop of college graduates, the worldly  
wise are also encouraged to apply. 
   ``We are also looking for people with international experience,  
languages, business experience. You are not necessarily going to get 
someone like that right out of college,'' says Ms. Guilsher. Congress 
is pumping a classified amount of money into the recruitment effort. 
   The DO began experiencing sharp losses in personnel nearly seven  
years ago, after the fall of the Soviet Union. By last year, the 
number of people leaving the agency exceeded fresh recruits by 3 or 4 
to 1. 
   Insiders cite a number of reasons for the departures, including  
overall mission drift and the way the CIA has handled spy scandals, 
including mole Aldrich Ames, who funneled secrets to Moscow from 1985 
until his arrest in 1994. 
   Such demoralizing headlines underscore the agency's need for fresh  
recruits as Tenet seeks to reform the CIA. The current hiring drive 
was already in the planning stages when the CIA's failure to detect 
India's nuclear tests last spring solidified recruiting resolve from 
Capitol Hill to the CIA's suburban headquarters in McLean, Va. 
   ``If you had the right number of people in the field doing the  
right thing, the failure wouldn't have occurred,'' says a 
congressional source familiar with agency operations. 
   Intelligence observers estimate total agency employees at just over  
16,000. One estimate places the total number of case workers in the 
field at less than 1,000. ``My guess is most Americans would overguess 
by 10- to 20-fold the numbers out there spying [for the CIA],'' the 
source says. 
   It'S not just the manner in which the recruitment calls are sounded  
that is changing. 
   The agency is also overhauling the way it handles would-be spies.  
In the past, applicants could expect to wait more than a year and a 
half as their application crawled through the hiring bureaucracy. 
   In today's tight labor market, many applicants were simply walking  
away, signing on to higher-paying jobs in the private sector. 
   Today, a CIA contact is assigned to answer applicants' questions,  
and the agency claims the hiring period has been compressed to six to 
eight months. ``We're overhauling our entire recruitment system,'' 
says Tenet. 
   Still, the agency is constricted by government pay scales -  
starting pay for a professional trainee is $30,000, about $5,000 less 
than what the average college graduate received this year. 
   What a CIA job can provide is the cachet of being a CIA agent - the  
lure of being in the know on world affairs. The agency also recruits 
using a rarely discussed theme these days: patriotism. 
   ``Patriotism is not a word used much anymore ... but there are  
still people who learn about the CIA's mission and understand that it 
really does have an important purpose and function and want to work in 
the agency,'' says Ronald Kessler, author of ``Inside the CIA.'' 
   Once in, today's trainees receive a more intensive, highly  
technical education than in the past. ``You can't collect 
[intelligence] in rocket science if you don't know about rocket 
science,'' says a congressional source. Today, a case officer in the 
field receives an average of one to three years of training. 
   Part of the need for greater numbers is sparked by the reopening of  
an undisclosed number of stations in former East Bloc countries, which 
were closed in the early 1990s. 
   The CIA says the reopenings are not necessarily to spy on former  
cold-war adversaries, but rather to monitor a region now transformed 
into a crossroads for weapons for hire.

---
Submissions should be sent to spooks@qth.net
To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe spooks" to majordomo@qth.net


--
bridget973@aol.com
Black Helicopters on the Horizon:
http://members.xoom.com/bridget973






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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Steve Mynott 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 14:39:43 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: Another potential flaw in current economic theory... (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199810061803.NAA08378@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <19981006203553.B18971@tightrope.demon.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Tue, Oct 06, 1998 at 01:03:25PM -0500, Jim Choate wrote:

> Wrong. Socialism is the belief that property is best managed and owned by
> the government. This is within the context of a free market. This means that
> the *ONLY* two parties involved are the producers and consumers. I am
> discussing an alternative approach to business management.

I think the property refered to is "capital goods" or "the means of
production"

> Fascism is the belief that property should be owned by private individuals
> but managed by governments.

how can you "own" something yet not control it?  fascism is a form of
socialism

> Capitalism is the belief that property should be owned and managed by the
> individual. Note that this definition doesn't prevent 3rd party regulatory
> bodies, but they neither own or manage the activity, only limit its' scope.

if a "3rd party regulatory body" has any ability to "limit" through a 
monopoly of force granted by the state it is a part of the state

any true cypherpunk must be a libertarian..

-- 
1024/D9C69DF9 steve mynott steve@tightrope.demon.co.uk http://www.pineal.com/

    travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness.  -- mark twain 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 13:35:03 +0800
To: Alan Olsen 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 08:31 PM 10/5/98 -0700, Alan Olsen wrote:
>>Why are bananas quantized in the presense of camels?  Is this
>>a quantum-computing thing?
>
>No, it's a Perl thing. ]:>
>

You need to download the Camel extension library..










  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 11:25:29 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Web TV with 128b exported
Message-ID: <199810070119.VAA23135@panix7.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



   >   From: SDN 
   >   William H. Geiger III wrote:
   >   > David Honig said:

   >   > >http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/981005/ca_microso_1.html
   >   > 
   >   > >MOUNTAIN VIEW, Calif., Oct. 5 /PRNewswire/ -- Microsoft Corp.'s (Nasdaq:
   >   > >MSFT - news) WebTV Networks today announced it is the first U.S. company
   >   > >to obtain government approval to export nonkey recovery-based
   >   > >128-bit-strength encryption for general commercial use. WebTV Networks
   >   > >pioneered low-cost access to the Internet, e-mail, financial services and
   >   > >electronic shopping through a television set and a standard phone line. 
   >   > 
   >   > I have my doubts on this. I find it highly unlikely that the FEDs would
   >   > approve this without some form of GAK built in even if it is not in the
   >   > form of "key recovery".
   >
   >   It's probably a lot closer to the "private doorbell" scenario.  The only
   >   thing that a WebTV unit will communicate with is the WebTV service (or
   >   the Japanese variant thereof).
   >
   >   Since all traffic goes through a point that will likely cooperate with
   >   law enforcement (and has remote control of the boxes, too.), this doesn't
   >   represent much of a loosening in the export controls.

Hmmm...

#   http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/981005/ca_microso_1.html
#   
#   ...without fear of interception by unauthorized parties.

Said with a lawyer's precision.

#   http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/981005/ca_microso_1.html
#   
#   William Reinsch, U.S.  undersecretary for export administration:
#   ``The WebTV Network provides secure communications for its
#   customers and partners without posing undue risks to
#   national security and law enforcement.'' 

Either it is interceptable and decodable or it isn't.

If it isn't, then software browsers (Netscape/IE) should
be allowed to do it too.

Perhaps Declan could investigate and get a story out of it.

----

Can someone with control of a 128-bit HTTP server see if
it can identify 128-bit keys from WebTV terminals?
---guy




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matt Curtin 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 11:37:29 +0800
To: rms@gnu.org
Subject: Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source   code)
In-Reply-To: <199810051105.HAA13894@germs.dyn.ml.org>
Message-ID: <864sthb1bv.fsf@strangepork.interhack.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Richard Stallman  writes:

> I beg your pardon, but this is no mistake.  I'm well aware of the
> people who argue for donating code to companies "so it will be more
> widely used."

This is really an interesting, and subtle, point.  The goals might
well be different, but I suspect they're more complementary than most
of us immediately realize.

Specifically, I'm unconvinced that letting people "steal" our code
really advances the cypherpunk goal of good crypto everywhere (GCE...a
new TLA?).  Proprietary implementations, or proprietary builds of free
or public domain might well claim to be high quality implementations
of well trusted algorithms.

But without access to the source, how do we know?

What if someone makes an RPM of PGP, for example, with a "feature" to
fire your keys off to Big Brother for "backup" and/or "safe keeping"?

-- 
Matt Curtin cmcurtin@interhack.net http://www.interhack.net/people/cmcurtin/




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Alan Olsen 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 15:10:04 +0800
To: "William H. Geiger III" 
Subject: Re: Yet Again Another Snake Oil Vendor
In-Reply-To: <199810062107.RAA26498@domains.invweb.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981006215420.00ad6a90@clueserver.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 04:14 PM 10/6/98 -0500, William H. Geiger III wrote:
>
>Below is a message I posted to the SpyKing mailing list a few months back
>when Jaws decided to spam the list with their crypto "challange".

One of the networking magazines had a big puff piece on Jaws.  (It read
just like their press release.)

Sad that so-called professional magazines can not sort out the wheat from
the chaff.

No wonder management is so screwed up.  They are getting fed press releases
as information...

---
|      Bill Clinton - Bringing back the Sixties one Nixon at a time!     |
|"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmermann unites all| Disclaimer:         |
| mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!"  | Ignore the man      |
|                                                  | behind the keyboard.|
|         http://www.ctrl-alt-del.com/~alan/       |alan@ctrl-alt-del.com|




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Max Inux 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 15:32:06 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Interesting document by an anonymous 'guy' (Echelon)
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Hey, at http://www.bsnet.co.uk/chris/nsa.txt there is an interesting paper
on how the NSA has been spying etcetera to do with  echelon, i would post
some, but it is all good, and is 518K a quick bit from the top....

"I haven't posted or updated it in a while, but here is the gathered
documentation on our governments' massive spying on us, including domestic
phone calls.", then later.....

	"This is about much more than just cryptography.  It is also
	about everyone in the U.S.A. being fingerprinted for a 
	defacto national ID card, about massive illegal domestic
	spying by the NSA, about the Military being in control of 
	key politicians, about always being in a state of war, and 
	about cybernetic control of society"

With the recent talk about Echelon I thought I would bring it up.....

Max

--   Max Inux   Hey Christy!!! KeyID 0x8907E9E5
Kinky Sex makes the world go round O R Strong crypto makes the world safe
       If crypto is outlawed only outlaws will have crypto
Fingerprint(Photo Also): 259D 59F7 D98C CD73 1ACD 54Ea 6C43 4877 8907 E9E5






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jan Dobrucki 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 09:40:45 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: camels and bananas, for some reason.
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981005190213.00845510@205.83.192.13>
Message-ID: <361AB42A.7D7C7657@kki.net.pl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



This camel and banana thing has gone WAY out of cypherpunk lane. This sounds like
material for a 'how-to-feed-a-camel-over-long-exposure-to-desert-heat newsgroup'
which, surpassingly, just might exist... not? :- ) prove me wrong :- )

About a year ago there was this program about cars on the Discovery Channel...
forgot it's detail... anyway, this weird prof. and a bunch of his student wanted to
prove that you can make cars with anything... so they got banana peals, cut them
into slices and made forms out of them. This did not create the essence of a car,
the engine, however they did make the chassis into a very nice bright yellow :- )
... OUT OF BANANA PEALS <:- )

So next time you eat breakfast, eat a camel ! .. WAIT... I mean a banana ! :- )

Regards,
Jan Dobrucki

Bill Stewart wrote:

> At 02:21 PM 10/5/98 +0200, Raccoon wrote:
> >On Mon, 5 Oct 1998, Reeza! wrote:
> >
> >> At 11:12 PM 10/4/98 +0200, Anonymous wrote:
> >> >At 12:59 PM 10/3/98 -0400, Michael Motyka wrote:
> >> >>> There is a desert which is 1000 miles across. There is a camel who can
> >> >carry
> >> >>> 1000 bananas maximum. The camel eats 1 banana per mile travelled. The
> >> camel
> >> >>> has a total of 3000 bananas to begin with. What is the maximum number of
> >> >>> bananas that the camel can get across to the other side uneaten?
> >>
> >> Are we stipulating that the camel will travel in a straight line?
> >> Or will it meander a bit, following the path of least resistanct through
> >> the dunes?
> >
> >Since we are looking for the best possible result (=the most bananans
> >moved to the other side), we must assume that the path of least resistance
> >equals a straight line. This may be improbable, but it is not impossible!
> >Remember that this is maths, and that we're looking for the best possible
> >limit.
>
> No, this isn't maths, this is camels, and they'll give you as much
> resistance as they feel like, and *you* may be looking for the most
> bananas moved across the desert, but the camel's perfectly happy to
> sit here and eat all the bananas here, crossing 0 miles of desert,
> or dump you 50 miles out in the desert and come back and eat the
> bananas.
>
> But other than the PERL book, what's it got to do with cypherpunks?
> Just that bananas are related to Bill Clinton?
>
>                                 Thanks!
>                                         Bill
> Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
> PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639


--
Wyslano za posrednictwem bezplatnego serwera KKI
Krakowski Komercyjny Internet - http://www.kki.net.pl

To jest miejsce na reklame Twojej firmy!




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Visto  Corporation 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 19:21:11 +0800
To: "'cypherpunks@toad.com>
Subject: Baywatch and Visto?
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



   


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67993






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Brown, R Ken" 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 19:23:58 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
Message-ID: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F849F@MSX11002>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> Matthew James Gering[SMTP:mgering@ecosystems.net] wrote:
> 
>> Though, it does occur to me that the fact that OS/2 has a 
>> stronger faction in Europe than in N. and S. America in 
>> relation to Microsoft may be an indication that continental 
>> saturation is possible.

>The conclusions I would draw from that are IBM as the former market
>giant had a very strong International infrastructure, channels and
>reputation. Since the US market is the principle industry producer, it
>was more competitive and less dominated by IBM. Microsoft, therefore,
>had an easier time in an already competitive US market than breaking in
>overseas. They also had the underdog phenomenon going for them here, the
>local competitive market wanting to break IBM's dominance. The fact that
>OS/2 utterly flopped in the US and found some adopters overseas is
>credit to IBMs international reputation and little else.

No - I was there (here) at the time.  It was early adopters of "client
server" technology who went for OS/2, mainly banks and City finance places.
Of course the currency traders & red braces types (remember "greed is
good"?) used Unix workstations or rather got their minions to use them for
them, but the backoffice applications often went to OS/2.  At the time
Windows 3.0 was just coming out and it wasn't a serious option. (I used to
wander around our office with a folder full of floppies each with a
different tcpip stack  for Windows - they all had *bad* problems). The
Netware people will still mostly on Netware 2 which was a great fileserver
but no kind of application server at all.  The alternative to OS/2 was Unix,
which is where most of these guys went next (& should have gone in the first
place) or sticking with Netware+DOS,  or going to AS400 (which was, and is,
a brilliant platform for exactly these sorts of backoffice, administrative
applications that are usually  programmed badly because no programmer who is
any good can stay awake whilst reading the spec). Of course now everyone
uses SAP.  Or Baan.  

If there are reasons that the small minority of big  OS/2 adopters in Europe
was slightly less small than the even smaller one in the US they are
probably:

- Unix was always better known in the US than Europe

- Lotus Notes took off faster in Europe & it was 100% OS/2 at first (nearest
OS/2 ever got to a "killer app")

- European companies spend less per seat on personal computing than US, and
they were reluctant to lash out on Sun workstations

- home computing in the US was almost totally Microsoft by the time OS/2
came out but not so much in Europe. The consumer market won out over the
business market. 

- European banks and finance places were ahead of US in software development
back then. That's partly because they had been slower to get started
(especially in France & Germany) & so had less mainframe legacy & partly
because the "big bang" deregulation of the UK  stock market (world's 3rd
biggest) and foreign exchange market (world's biggest by a long way - every
dollar in your bank account is on average bought and sold in London more
than once a week) shook up the banks. So they went for "client server"
earlier and at a time when there was no credible MS platform. 

I used to  drive OS/2 for a living (for Lotus Notes mainly). It had a far,
far better user interface than Windows or  most versions of X. But it was
late, slow and never really delivered the reliability or ease of
installation it should have. The Extended Editor was the best programmer's
editor I have ever seen and Rexx is what Basic should have been - a million
Windows programmers suffer every day because of Bill Gates's unreasoning
prejudice against Rexx and his pathetic admiration for Basic - but
installation and maintenance were a nightmare, and the thing ran like a dog
with a broken leg.  When we got the chance to replace it with NT we went for
NT.  But OS/2 versus Windows 3 was a different matter.

Relevance to Cypherpunks? Sort of, in that it shows that a consumer product
(Windows) can beat a business-directed product (OS/2) in the software
market, even if it is inferior. If we want to see ubiquitous strong
cryptography the target market isn't the banks but 14-year-olds in their
bedrooms. 

Ken Brown




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Rick Campbell 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 20:32:22 +0800
To: rms@gnu.org
Subject: Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code)
In-Reply-To: <199810062305.RAA29198@wijiji.santafe.edu>
Message-ID: <199810071026.GAA20270@germs.dyn.ml.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Boundary..3997.1071713808.multipart/signed"

--Boundary..3997.1071713808.multipart/signed
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

    Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 17:05:42 -0600
    From: Richard Stallman 
    
    If you want to use our code in non-free software, and leave your users
    (who would then be our users also) no freedom, it is understandable
    that you would ask for this.

No, I simply don't want to discriminate against users who are writing
proprietary software, i. e. I don't want to restrict the freedom of
those users in the way that GPL does.

Public Domain status denotes more freedom than GPL.  It allows all of
the freedom of GPL and in addition, it allows the freedom of making
proprietary modifications.

The results of the proprietary step may be less free than GPL, but the
code placed in the Public Domain is still more free than the code
released under the terms of the GPL.

			Rick


--Boundary..3997.1071713808.multipart/signed
Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="pgp00001.pgp"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="pgp00001.pgp"
Content-Description: "PGP signature"

LS0tLS1CRUdJTiBQR1AgTUVTU0FHRS0tLS0tClZlcnNpb246IDIuNi4zaWEK
Q29tbWVudDogUHJvY2Vzc2VkIGJ5IE1haWxjcnlwdCAzLjQsIGFuIEVtYWNz
L1BHUCBpbnRlcmZhY2UKCmlRQ1ZBd1VCTmh0QnhoSWU5MVViOERjRkFRSGpK
Z1A3QkRRQUJWdkt5czhsM1JXNXFmcDRES0Vnai9mZGxzQysKZzFvaXdkdkJ4
NDJIeUVESy81TUtQaDFKNGRBREo0K1BOUEFyQTMyQVRaakpVNWpGTHhxS2Rh
bVpiSDZmYm5lagp5cDVzVCttbzF1Z0pzaHB1dGEzbWZGSkVkMjd3UURQNmxo
K2hJWVVLL2lTOTkzRllZUDNMYW9DbGErWG9pa0U0Ckp2dFM3Y0swTE5FPQo9
Tys2SAotLS0tLUVORCBQR1AgTUVTU0FHRS0tLS0tCg==
--Boundary..3997.1071713808.multipart/signed--



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 21:16:10 +0800
To: "Enzo Michelangeli" 
Subject: Re: Sad news ... (... or not ;-))
In-Reply-To: <01c201bdf1c9$bbd28b20$87004bca@home>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 4:08 AM -0400 on 10/7/98, Enzo Michelangeli wrote:

> But if the patents were held by Digicash Inc., what was the point of having
> Digicash BV?

Ah. But they weren't originally. Originally, the patents were held by David
Chaum, and licensed to DigiCash, BV. When they finally ran out of investors
in DigiCash BV, an investor group headed by Nicholas Negroponte said they'd
invest in a new company, domiciled in the US, but only if Chaum signed his
rights over to the US company.

Having just written that, it starts to make somewhat convoluted sense. Buy
the Dutch company from the shareholders for some small sum, pay most of the
"real" creditors, roll it up, making the investors  and some of the
creditors (wanna bet they're software contractors?) take the hit for what's
left, and start the new company in the US with, technically, a clean
financial slate -- and control of the patent.

Curioser and curioser. Makes me wonder, though, whether after all this
financial prestidigitation they're going to have any room left for jello.
:-).

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga

-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 01:29:02 +0800
To: "William H. Geiger III" 
Subject: Re: Web TV with 128b exported
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981006110801.0088a430@m7.sprynet.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981007090445.008903c0@m7.sprynet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 04:32 PM 10/6/98 -0500, William H. Geiger III wrote:
>   at 11:08 AM, David Honig  said:
>>The WebTV(TM) Network service, combined with the WebTV-based Internet
>>terminals and receivers, is the first communications system permitted by
>>the U.S. government to provide strong encryption for general use by
>>non-U.S. citizens in Japan and the United Kingdom. Such strong encryption
>>allows Japanese and United Kingdom subscribers of WebTV to communicate
>>through the WebTV Network (both within national borders and
>>internationally) without fear of interception by unauthorized parties. 
>
>I have my doubts on this. I find it highly unlikely that the FEDs would
>approve this without some form of GAK built in even if it is not in the
>form of "key recovery".
>

I'd guess that the Export control puppets know that the Web-TV hubs will
be subpoena-able by the US even in these other "sovereign" nations.
The WebTV centralized infrastructure makes this easy.








  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 22:54:09 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: American Justice Threat List
Message-ID: <199810071434.KAA07440@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Some of the Justice/FBI Wish List legislative requests,
outlined by Rep. Bob Barr a few days ago, are being
implemented in two recent docs:

1. House/Senate Conference Report on HR3694, 
Intelligence Authorization Act for FY 1999:

   http://jya.com/hr105-780.txt  (108K)

An excerpt from this report, Foreign Intelligence and
International Terrorism Investigations, describes 
expanded wiretap and encryption provisions:

   http://jya.com/fiiti.htm  (36K)

Note the planned use of "volunteers" to assist Justice
with encryption and other features added to original bills
by the House/Senate conference, in line with Barr's
prediction.

2. The International Crime and Anti-Terrorism
Amendments for 1998, expands foreign action
powers, broadens seizures and other provisions:

   http://jya.com/s2536.txt  (38K)

What these confirm is the use of the threat of terrorism
to rapidly eliminate the separation between foreign and 
domestic intelligence, military and law enforcement 
powers.

While still mostly aimed at foreign-originated threats,
the provisions now make it possible to turn the full
kennel of the dogs of war loose on disobedient US 
citizens lumped with foreigners impossible to 
understand except as threats to American Justice.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 23:05:00 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Nowhere Justice
Message-ID: <199810071447.KAA16769@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



A distinguishing feature of the complaints and indictments
of suspects in the African Embassy bombings is the
use of the phrase "in the special maritime and territorial
jurisdiction of the United States, as that term is defined in
Title 18, United States Code, Section 7(3), and outside 
the jurisdiction of any particular state or jurisdiction," to 
apparently lay claim to the legal right of the US to arrest 
and imprison terrorist suspects for acts in any location 
where US law customarily would not be valid:

   http://jya.com/alqfiles.htm

Would any of our legal advisors know the origin of that 
phrase "outside the jurisdiction of any particular state or 
jurisdiction?" Is this new, and devised to reduce conflict
with other states who may harbor terrorists, or perhaps
prevent them from being terrorist targets for cooperating
with the US?





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jennifer Stinson-- BDSI 
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 00:15:09 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com
Subject: 1999 San Antonio/Austin Guide to Business Technology
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Prospective Buyers are Asking for Information about Your Products and Services

Let them know that your company is local and can supply what they need by participating in the 
1999 Guide to Business Technology.  The Guide is an annual publication that is distributed to local 
and regional companies giving them useful buying information about services and products such as:

*  Cellular  *  Computer Hardware  *  Computer Networking  *  Computer Software  *  Computer 
Telephony Interface  *  Consulting  *  Emerging Technology  *  Internet Access *  Intenet Marketing  
*  Outsourcing  *  Software Development  *  Video Conferencing  *  Wireless Communications  *  Y2K

I am contacting you, because you were listed in the search engines as having products and services 
tht fit the needs of the prospective buyers we contacted.

To get more information, go to:  http://www.biztech99.com

or email:  jstinson@trip.net

**Note you will only receive this message once, this is not a list, you do not need to respond with 
"remove"




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: pgut001@cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann)
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 08:33:29 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Echelon's Origin
Message-ID: <90771266316475@cs26.cs.auckland.ac.nz>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



John Young  writes:

>The NSA released during the summer a Top Secret memorandum by Truman in 
>1952 establishing NSA as the lead COMINT agency for the USG:

Located nearby at http://www.nsa.gov:8080/docs/efoia/released/jfk.html are 
documents related to the Kennedy assassination.  Check out the COMINT 
reports, they were getting information from an awful lot of interesting 
sources, many of which appear to be telegrams or telexes or similar
communications.  The Truman memo may show the background behind Echelon,
but these things show it (or at least its ancestor) in action.  Wow.

Peter.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 02:02:08 +0800
To: David Honig 
Subject: Re: Web TV with 128b exported
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981007090445.008903c0@m7.sprynet.com>
Message-ID: <199810071745.NAA13386@domains.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In <3.0.5.32.19981007090445.008903c0@m7.sprynet.com>, on 10/07/98 
   at 09:04 AM, David Honig  said:

>At 04:32 PM 10/6/98 -0500, William H. Geiger III wrote:
>>   at 11:08 AM, David Honig  said:
>>>The WebTV(TM) Network service, combined with the WebTV-based Internet
>>>terminals and receivers, is the first communications system permitted by
>>>the U.S. government to provide strong encryption for general use by
>>>non-U.S. citizens in Japan and the United Kingdom. Such strong encryption
>>>allows Japanese and United Kingdom subscribers of WebTV to communicate
>>>through the WebTV Network (both within national borders and
>>>internationally) without fear of interception by unauthorized parties. 
>>
>>I have my doubts on this. I find it highly unlikely that the FEDs would
>>approve this without some form of GAK built in even if it is not in the
>>form of "key recovery".
>>

>I'd guess that the Export control puppets know that the Web-TV hubs will
>be subpoena-able by the US even in these other "sovereign" nations. The
>WebTV centralized infrastructure makes this easy.

I have never looked at the WebTV set-up but I am assuming they are running
a series of proxy servers which then provide content for the WebTV boxes?
Or are they providing an AOL type of thing, with their own proprietary
network and gateways to the real world?

Exactly what is getting encrypted and what is not in this system? If this
is just point to point encryption between the WebTV box & the WebTV
hub/proxy/whatever it seems rather worthless IMNSHO.

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: Dogs crawl under gates, software crawls under Windows!

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3a-sha1
Charset: cp850
Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000

iQCVAwUBNhuqwo9Co1n+aLhhAQGA8AP/eHyYTMwqVfv07k0nRG3ebWf67Tjw7ObH
UEdBwqdf99pJ6HDhcHxz7iqHWT3FHv1B86UXVO2sf8kuZQrSlWOZAxjwZhqQnXTn
7z7RZNe2MEyere8eujTIv4i1pYLKFgFl5vKj3evz5AaILHp8lYl3IASIzbhcP7Dc
8W94T1RhJgI=
=TvXZ
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Jim McCoy" 
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 04:06:20 +0800
To: "Frank O'Dwyer" 
Subject: Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source   code)
Message-ID: <00cb01bdf22d$6ae0a800$f710fbce@pericles.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Frank O'Dwyer writes:
>Agreed. For example, having SSLeay (say) used in some proprietary
>program or other would achieve very little in the way of "cypherpunk
>goals" (unless perhaps the company voluntarily published improvements
>and bug fixes for SSLeay).

Excuse me?  What exactly to you think the "cypherpunk goals" are?  It seems
to me that promoting the adoption of strong crypto by everyone is high on
the list and when we say "everyone" we mean to include the vast majority of
users who are using propriatary and closed-source programs.  That means that
if a proprietary program uses SSLeay or any other crypto library to give the
program strong crypto then the "cypherpunk goals" are being achienved.

I don't give a damn whether the application is "free" or not, I care whether
or not it provides users with good security and privacy.  The relative
freedom of the program (regardless of who is defining the word freedom) is
incidental to the matter.  If Microsoft came out with a statement that they
were going to use SSLeay to provide all users (foreign and domestic) with
strong crypto at all levels of the OS I am quite certain that Eric would be
quite happy with this outcome even though no source would be shared and no
improvements or bug fixes would come back from Redmond.

jim





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mok-Kong Shen 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 21:16:36 +0800
To: coderpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code)
In-Reply-To: <199810071026.GAA20270@germs.dyn.ml.org>
Message-ID: <361B5A74.332D759E@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Rick Campbell wrote:

> Public Domain status denotes more freedom than GPL.  It allows all of
> the freedom of GPL and in addition, it allows the freedom of making
> proprietary modifications.

Logically this is (trivially) true, since PD imposes no conditions
while GPL imposes some. One possibility I can imagine is that those
who favour GPL and presumably also the ideas behind it could be
a bit more motivated to achieve a better quality of the software 
(including maintenance) than those who put software in the PD.
Of course this is just speculation and I have no way of knowing the 
reality.

M. K. Shen




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Steve Bryan 
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 03:55:30 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Web TV with 128b exported
In-Reply-To: <199810062125.RAA26914@domains.invweb.net>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



David Honig wrote:

>I'd guess that the Export control puppets know that the Web-TV hubs will
>be subpoena-able by the US even in these other "sovereign" nations.
>The WebTV centralized infrastructure makes this easy.

This announcement seems to be getting a lot of this sort of reaction but I
don't see quite why the news is greeted with such animosity. If a duly
authorized search warrant is required in order to obtain information that
represents a potential world of difference from having unrestricted ability
to monitor all communications.

Steve Bryan
Vendorsystems International
email: sbryan@vendorsystems.com
icq: 5263678
pgp fingerprint: D758 183C 8B79 B28E 6D4C  2653 E476 82E6 DA7C 9AC5





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Sunder 
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 02:56:36 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: [Fwd: [Spooks] British Telecom-Menwith Hill connection]
Message-ID: <361BB603.6F40C570@brainlink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



To: Spooks 
Subject: [Spooks] British Telecom-Menwith Hill connection
From: Bob Margolis 
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 23:32:36 -0500
Reply-To: Bob Margolis 
Sender: owner-spooks@qth.net

BT condemned for listing cables to US sigint station



     4 September, 1997

     A judge has lambasted BT for revealing detailed information about top secret high capacity cables feeding phone and
     other messages to and from a Yorkshire monitoring base. BT admitted this week that they have connected three digital
     optical fibre cables - capable of carrying more than 100,000 telephone calls at once - to the American intelligence base
     at Menwith Hill, near Harrogate.

     Menwith Hill is run by the US National Security Agency (NSA), which monitors the world's communication for US
     intelligence. NSA acknowledges that "the Hill" is the largest electronic monitoring station in the world. Over 1,200 US
     civilians and servicemen work round the clock at the base, intercepting and analysing communications mainly from
     Europe, Russia and the Middle East.

     Much of the information reaching the base comes from spy satellites. The base has 26 large white golfballs or "radomes"
     for space communications, making it an inescapable landmark in the Yorkshire dales.

     In a courtroom fiasco this week, British Telecom's solicitors first sent documents and a witness to give details of the
     cables to York Crown Court, where two women campaigners were appealing against conviction for trespassing at the
     station. The next day, they sent a second solicitor to attempt to silence their own witness and to withdraw evidence
     already given.

     Judge Jonathan Crabtree agreed to grant public interest immunity "BT had no business whatsoever to disclose anything
     of the kind", he said. He then ordered Mr R.G. Morris, BT's head of emergency planning, not to give any more evidence
     about the secret cables.

     After being privately briefed in his chambers by BT's second solicitor, the judge said that it was immaterial if Menwith
     Hill was spying on British citizens and commercial communications and may have cost British companies in billions of
     dollars of lost sales.

     "The national interest of the United Kingdom, even if if is conducted dishonestly, requires this to be kept
     secret", said Judge Crabtree.

     "The methods of communicating to and from Menwith Hill, whether military intelligence or commercial spying, is clearly
     secret information. The governments of the United States and United Kingdom do not want this information to be
     divulged", he explained.

     But he said that BT's list of secret cables in and out of Menwith Hill could not be withdrawn from the case. "Half the cat
     is out of the bag. The contents of the letter are now in public domain. I just don't know what BT think they were doing",
     he added.

     According to the letter, the Post Office (now BT) first provided two high capacity "wide bandwidth" circuits to Menwith
     Hill in 1975. They were connected on a coaxial cable to the BT network at Hunters Stones, a microwave radio station a
     few miles from the US base.

     During the 1970s and 1980s, almost all Britain's long-distance telephone calls were carried on the microwave network
     of which Hunters Stones is part. The existence of the cables connecting the network to Menwith Hill has been known
     since 1980, but the authorities have always refused to comment. BT now claims that the cables were connected directly
     to the United States via undersea cable, and did not link to other parts of the British system.

     The system was upgraded in 1992, says BT, when a new high capacity optical fibre cable was installed. This linked to a
     different part of the BT network, but was also carried directly to the United States via undersea cable. Since then, BT
     revealed, the capacity of the system has been trebled by adding two more optical fibre links. These could carry more
     than 100,000 simultaneous telephone calls.

     Lawyers for the two women campaigners, Helen John and Anne Lee, say they were astonished by the company's
     sudden change of heart. They said that the letter giving details of the cables may have been written for PR purposes, and
     appeared intended to suggest that BT wasn't helping NSA tap telephones. This, BT said, was a "misapprehension which
     is damaging to this company's reputation".

     BT staff also hinted that other British communications companies are supplying tapping capacity to the American base.
     Even as BT's solicitor was seeking to have his evidence prohibited, BT's witness was outside court giving further
     information to the women's solicitor implying that other British communications companies were also involved in the
     spying activities at Menwith Hill. "You should ask me about other companies", he said before he was silenced.

     Tony Benn - who was the Postmaster General at the time cables were first installed connecting Menwith Hill to the
     British communications network - also gave evidence. He said that although a Cabinet minister and privy councillor, he
     had been told nothing of the secret arrangements with the Americans.

     BT were ordered to pay the legal costs caused by their change of heart. The judge accused them of giving away
     confidential commercial information and national secrets. "If I had a burglar alarm system, I would now think twice about
     having it operated by BT", he said.

---
Submissions should be sent to spooks@qth.net
To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe spooks" to majordomo@qth.net




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Enzo Michelangeli" 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 18:09:45 +0800
To: 
Subject: Sad news ... (... or not ;-)) (http://www.inet-one.com/cypherpunks/current/msg
Message-ID: <01c201bdf1c9$bbd28b20$87004bca@home>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




> At 6:57 PM -0400 on 10/6/98, Petro wrote:>
> >  Who owns the patents, Digicash, or Chaum?>
> DigiCash, Inc., of the US of A, not DigiCash BV, of the Netherlands.>
> Cheers,> Bob Hettinga

Uhm, strange: I thought that the main attraction of a Dutch company was the
lack of withholding tax on royalty payments made to non-residents, that,
combined with the tax treaties between The Netherlands and most countries
(which allow tax-free payment from those countries to the Dutch company),
makes it an ideal vehicle to receive royalties on a (almost) tax-free basis.
But if the patents were held by Digicash Inc., what was the point of having
Digicash BV?

Enzo





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: geeman@best.com
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 09:03:23 +0800
To: Steve Dunlop 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



EFS is being deployed because They realized that with NTFS-readers
available for other OSes besides NT there was no longer even the illusion
of security offered by the NT architecture.  Hence they figured they'd
scramble things up a bit.  It leaves some interesting features OUT ... it
will not Save The World.
 



At 06:06 PM 10/7/98 -0500, Steve Dunlop wrote:
>
>All,
>
>Does anyone have any opinions on the encrypting file
>system (EFS) that is supposed to ship with NT 5.0?
>
>The white paper on the MSDN web site says it uses
>DESX (no explaination as to what the X is) and an
>RSA public key algorithm to store the symmetric keys,
>which are random for each file.
>
>So what's DESX?
>
>EFS appears to have the architecture to support
>arbitrarily long keys although this has been crippled
>in the NT5.0 release, presumably because of
>export limitations.  It has the key recovery features
>you would expect in a commercial product of the
>type; they can be turned off administratively.
>
>Is this a victory for wider use of encryption?
>
>--
>Steve Dunlop
>letters: "dunlop" at "bitstream" dot "net"
>http://www2.bitstream.net/~dunlop
>
>
>
>




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 01:17:15 +0800
To: Steve Bryan 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981007161433.008989e0@m7.sprynet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 02:39 PM 10/7/98 -0500, Steve Bryan wrote:
>David Honig wrote:
>
>>I'd guess that the Export control puppets know that the Web-TV hubs will
>>be subpoena-able by the US even in these other "sovereign" nations.
>>The WebTV centralized infrastructure makes this easy.
>
>This announcement seems to be getting a lot of this sort of reaction but I
>don't see quite why the news is greeted with such animosity. If a duly
>authorized search warrant is required in order to obtain information that
>represents a potential world of difference from having unrestricted ability
>to monitor all communications.
>
>Steve Bryan

The announcement would be a lot better if foreigners were "permitted"
strong disk
encryption; or if foreigners were "permitted" the high grade anonymity that
packet routing can provide.  

Do you think the US would allow strong crypto WebTV for foreigners if the
foreigners had secure links to an equivalent, independent, foreign WebTV
service whose assets were not readily seized, whose techs were not easily
made into Agents, whose officers were not readily kidnappable by the USDoJ,
etc.

Just think of the cookie recipes the infidels would be circulating..

I really doubt Osama subscribes to WebTV.  :-)








  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: landon dyer 
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 07:56:35 +0800
To: Steve Dunlop 
Subject: Re: NT 5.0 and EFS -- A victory for widespread use of crypto?
In-Reply-To: <361BF3ED.8111C033@bitstream.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981007164728.009611c0@shell9.ba.best.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 06:06 PM 10/7/98 -0500, you wrote:
>
>Does anyone have any opinions on the encrypting file
>system (EFS) that is supposed to ship with NT 5.0?

  you're asking the *cypherpunks list* if anyone has
an opinion?  oh, gad...  :-)


>EFS appears to have the architecture to support
>arbitrarily long keys although this has been crippled
>in the NT5.0 release, presumably because of
>export limitations.  It has the key recovery features
>you would expect in a commercial product of the
>type; they can be turned off administratively.


  excerpted (without permission) from the latest issue of the
microsoft systems journal, about the new feature of NTFS in
NT 5.0, specifically regarding encryption:

  "...NTFS has built-in recovery support so that the encrypted
   data can be accessed.  In fact, NTFS won't allow files to be
   encrypted unless the system is configured to have at least
   one recovery key.  For a domain environment, the recovery keys
   are defined at the domain controller and are enforced on all
   machines within the domain...."

  i'll definitely have to play with this one -- wh'appens if you add
a machine to a domain, encrypt some files, then remove the machine
from the domain?  can the admin of the domain recover all files
you encrypt from that point on?  and so on...


  "...For home users, NTFS automatically generates recovery keys
   and saves them as machine keys.  You can then use command-line
   tools to recover data from an administrator's account."


  if i were looking for a point of attack, i'd start with the
low-level key management here...


  another interesting thing to try: install NT on a workstation,
encrypt a removable disk, then reinstall NT on that workstation
again -- have you defeated key recovery for that disk?  (since the
machine keys for the first install of NT are presumably gone...)


-landon (re-lurking)




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Dave Del Torto 
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 07:59:27 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: ANNOUNCE: SF Bay Cypherpunks Mtg, Sat 10 Oct, Stanford
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Online version: 

SF Bay Area Cypherpunks
October 1998  Physical Meeting

General Info:

  Sat 10 Oct
  1:00 - 5:00 PM
  Stanford University Campus (Palo Alto, California)
    - Tressider Union courtyard

   The October Physical Meeting of the San Francisco Bay Area Cypherpunks
   will be held on Saturday 10 October 1998 from 1-5 PM. This is an "Open
   Meeting on US Soil" and, as always, members of the Public are encouraged
   to attend.

Meeting Agenda:

 1:00-2:00
   Informal pre-meeting gathering

 2:00-5:00
   Agenda TBD on-the-fly at the meeting... Some suggestions:

   CIPHR'99 conference announcement
   MacCrypto'98 summary
   Yet Another Snake-Oil cluster-jerk. This month: "JAWS"
   "Software as Speech" discussion
   Review of Bruce Schneier's Review of TriStrata/TESS
   Cypherpunks/GNU/GPL License discussion
   PGP Keysigning session:
    - Bring a printout of your key's fingerprint/keyid/size + photoID
    - Load your key info into your Pilot or Newton for IR beaming

 5:00-?
   Dinner at a nearby restaurant usually follows the meeting.

Featured Speakers:

   (TBD)

Meeting Notes for Oct '98:

   The meeting will be shorter this month, because some cypherpunks were not
   ready to present, technical white-papers were not quite written (Nov) or
   the marketing weasels at a company-that-shall-remain-nameless were too
   scared to show up. ;)

   MacCrypto'98 is being held this week nearby at Apple in Cupertino:
   several out-of-town cypherpunks are lurking. Therefore, it's extremely
   likely that agenda items will arise in realtime, so
   "you must be present to win."

   Because of the loose agenda, the meeting will begin slightly later than
   normal: 1:00 pm pre-meeting (instead of noon), 2:00 pm for the meeting.

   This is probably our last outdoor meeting for 1998.

   Unless I'm mistaken, this is our seven-year anniversary meeting(?).

Location Info:

   The meeting location will be familiar to those who've been to our outdoor
   meetings before, but for those who haven't been, it's on the Stanford
   University campus, at the tables outside Tresidder Union, at the end of
   Santa Theresa, just west of Dinkelspiel Auditorium.
   We meet at the tables on the west side of the building, inside the
   horseshoe "U" formed by Tresidder. Ask anyone on campus where Tressider
   is and they'll help you find it.

   Food and beverages are available at the cafe inside Tressider.

Location Maps:

   Stanford Campus (overview, Tresidder highlighted).

http://www.stanford.edu/home/map/search_map.html?keyword=&ACADEMIC=Tresidder+Uni
on
   Tresidder Union (zoomed detail view).
    http://www.stanford.edu/home/map/stanford_zoom_map.html?234,312
   Printable Stanford Map (407k).
    http://www.stanford.edu/home/visitors/campus_map.pdf




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Bernie B. Terrado" 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 20:19:19 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: question
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



traceroute, is it effective as ping or finger.
what other info would I have to know about it

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
It's done.....          @
                        @
metaphone@altavista.net @					
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Steve Dunlop 
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 07:12:14 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: NT 5.0 and EFS -- A victory for widespread use of crypto?
Message-ID: <361BF3ED.8111C033@bitstream.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



All,

Does anyone have any opinions on the encrypting file
system (EFS) that is supposed to ship with NT 5.0?

The white paper on the MSDN web site says it uses
DESX (no explaination as to what the X is) and an
RSA public key algorithm to store the symmetric keys,
which are random for each file.

So what's DESX?

EFS appears to have the architecture to support
arbitrarily long keys although this has been crippled
in the NT5.0 release, presumably because of
export limitations.  It has the key recovery features
you would expect in a commercial product of the
type; they can be turned off administratively.

Is this a victory for wider use of encryption?

--
Steve Dunlop
letters: "dunlop" at "bitstream" dot "net"
http://www2.bitstream.net/~dunlop





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Lucky Green 
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 09:36:08 +0800
To: "Frank O'Dwyer" 
Subject: Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code)
In-Reply-To: <361BF06E.164B7CF@brd.ie>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



[Coderpunks distribution removed].

On Wed, 7 Oct 1998, Frank O'Dwyer wrote:
 
> No, it doesn't, because no crypto library gives any application "strong
> crypto". It has to be used correctly and appropriately for one thing.
> For another, it needs to be free of back doors, whether intentionally
> placed there or otherwise. In the long run, full disclosure of source
> code provides the best assurance that this is so. 

Of course source availablility aids greatly in evaluating the overall 
security of software. However, Jim was correct in pointing out that 
/requirin/g source availability of products by licensing restrictions 
employed in crypto component freeware is 
counterproductive. May companies will not be able to source contaminated 
by GNU-style licensing restrictions. Consequently, alternatives would be 
found. Some of those alternatives, include using no crypto at all or 
using crypto written by somebody that does not understand crytography. 
Hardly the outcome a Cypherpunk would desire.

We should all thank Eric for making SSLeay available under a BSD-style 
license. The world probably would have half as many internationally 
available strong cryptographic products had Eric used GPL.

The bottom line is that GNU-licensing is more restrictive than 
BSD/SSLeay-style licensing. Hence identical freeware will see less 
deployment under GNU than under BSD.

Cyphpunks believe that more strong crypto is better.

The conclusion in the GNU vs. BSD/SSLeay/etc. license debate should be clear.

-- Lucky Green  PGP encrypted mail preferred




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 01:17:30 +0800
To: Michael Motyka 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 04:07 PM 10/6/98 -0700, Michael Motyka wrote:
>> ITALIAN dignitaries who fear being kidnapped are having
>> microprocessor homing devices planted in their bodies so police can
>> track them down if they are abducted.
>>
>Where can I buy one of these things for my cat? My master password is
>tatooed inside her upper lip.
>

You must either have a large cat or an insecure password.  Or a very
precise veterinary tattooist.








  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Max Inux 
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 10:17:14 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Echelon @ Menwith Hill [was Re: [Fwd: BT + menwith conn
In-Reply-To: <361BB603.6F40C570@brainlink.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




These are some echelon and menwith hill related sites....  though the last
one is the best anti-menwith hill one (and most informitive i think...

http://www.fas.org/irp/facility/menwith.htm
http://www.gn.apc.org/cndyorks/mhs/index.htm
http://www.fas.org/irp/facility/onizuka.htm
http://www.fas.org/irp/facility/index.html
http://www.bsnet.co.uk/chris/nsa.txt
http://www.fas.org/irp/facility/nroceeta.htm
http://www.fas.org/irp/program/collect/an-flr-9.htm
http://www.fas.org/irp/program/collect/flr9_380is.jpg
http://users.neca.com/cummings/wullen.html

MenWith:::(CND's site)
http://www.gn.apc.org/cndyorks/mhs/index.htm

I know for the most part the fas.org sites are redundant, but those are my
favorite links rgwew

-- Max Inux  Hey Christy!!! KeyID 0x8907E9E5
Kinky Sex makes the world go round O R Strong crypto makes the world safe
       If crypto is outlawed only outlaws will have crypto
Fingerprint(Photo Also): 259D 59F7 D98C CD73 1ACD 54Ea 6C43 4877 8907 E9E5






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Thomas Roessler 
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 02:52:06 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code)
In-Reply-To: <199810062305.RAA29198@wijiji.santafe.edu>
Message-ID: <19981007200617.C26981@sobolev.rhein.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Wed, Oct 07, 1998 at 06:26:16AM -0400, Rick Campbell wrote:

> Public Domain status denotes more freedom than GPL.  It allows all of
> the freedom of GPL and in addition, it allows the freedom of making
> proprietary modifications.

Making proprietary changes to GPLed software for your own use seems
to be fine with the GPL.  The problem occurs if you are giving away
changed versions of software: While GPL will force you to give your
distributed software's users the same freedom you enjoyed yourself
when creating the software, PD won't preserve that freedom.

Thus, GPL is the license model which most consequently follows the
freedom for end users thread of thinking.

tlr
-- 
Thomas Roessler · 74a353cc0b19 · dg1ktr · http://home.pages.de/~roessler/
     2048/CE6AC6C1 · 4E 04 F0 BC 72 FF 14 23 44 85 D1 A1 3B B0 73 C1




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 08:51:14 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Wiretaps and Surveillance Expanded
Message-ID: <199810080034.UAA23532@camel14.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Note: Alan is referring to the closed-door added provisions 
available at:

   http://jya.com/fiiti.htm

From: Alan Davidson 
Subject: House Passes Roving Wiretaps, Expands Federal Surveillance Powers

House Passes Roving Wiretaps, Expands Federal Surveillance Powers

In a closed-door manuever, controversial "roving wiretap" provisions were
added to a major Intelligence authorization bill and passed by the House
this afternoon. Current wiretapping law allows tapping of a particular
person's phones. The new provisions would dramatically expand current
authority by allowing taps on any phone used by, or "proximate" to, the
person being tapped -- no matter whose phone it is. Such a broad law
invites abuse.

In the last Congress, the full House of Representatives rejected these
provisions after an open and vigorous debate. This week, behind closed
doors, a conference committee added the provisions to the important
Intelligence Authorization Conference Report, almost certain to pass the
Congress. The provisions were not in either the original House or Senate
versions of the bill.  CDT is particularly concerned that such an expansion
of federal authority should take place without a public debate.

The text of the new roving wiretap provisions will be available this
evening on CDT's Web site at: http://www.cdt.org

Alan Davidson, Staff Counsel                 202.637.9800 (v)
Center for Democracy and Technology          202.637.0968 (f)
1634 Eye St. NW, Suite 1100                  
Washington, DC 20006                         PGP key via finger





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Frank O'Dwyer" 
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 03:47:45 +0800
To: rms@gnu.org
Subject: Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source   code)
In-Reply-To: <199810051105.HAA13894@germs.dyn.ml.org>
Message-ID: <361BC3FB.623FEF51@brd.ie>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Matt Curtin wrote:
> Richard Stallman  writes:
> 
> > I beg your pardon, but this is no mistake.  I'm well aware of the
> > people who argue for donating code to companies "so it will be more
> > widely used."
> 
> This is really an interesting, and subtle, point.  The goals might
> well be different, but I suspect they're more complementary than most
> of us immediately realize.

Agreed. For example, having SSLeay (say) used in some proprietary
program or other would achieve very little in the way of "cypherpunk
goals" (unless perhaps the company voluntarily published improvements
and bug fixes for SSLeay). Having it used in Mozilla is a different
matter, however. Ultimately what is needed is not good free crypto
(which already exists, pretty much) but good free *applications* that
use crypto, with available source that can be examined for good practice
and backdoors, and that can be fixed when they are broken.  

But that's not to say that there is no point in trying to harness the
resources of proprietary software makers. One of way of looking at this
is that there is a limited number of people who know about this stuff,
and some of them work on proprietary software. Let's assume that it's
worth getting those people involved. Well, GPLing your code pretty much
ensures that they won't work on it. On the other hand, a very liberal
licence like BSD will mean that many of them won't or can't share their
results. The Mozilla licence looks to me like a good compromise in terms
of getting skilled people involved and maximising the return of
improvements. Additional licence terms like "no GAK" or whatever would
just turn some % of people off the code and would be superfluous
anyway--there's no need for the licence to demand "no GAK" if it demands
the source, and there's no point in demanding it otherwise.

Cheers,
Frank O'Dwyer.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 03:22:35 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199810071907.VAA03868@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Seems the government has required key-escrow in exchange for imaging-
satellite licenses for some time.  With the "national security" password.


1.Any U.S. entity that receives an operating license is required to
maintain a record of all satellite tasking from the previous year, which
the U.S. Government is permitted to access. 2.The operational
characteristics stated in the application for license may not be altered
without formal notification and approval of the Department of Commerce.
3.The license does not relieve the Licensee of the obligation to obtain
export license(s) pursuant to applicable statutes. 4.The license is
normally valid only for a finite period (10 years) and is not transferable
or subject to foreign owners above a certain threshold without specific
permission. 5.Encryption devices, which deny unauthorized access to others
during periods when national security, international obligations and/or
foreign policies may be compromised, must be approved by the U.S.
Government. 6.The licensee must use a data downlink which allows the U.S.
Government access to and use of the data in periods when national security,
international obligations, and/or foreign policies may be compromised (as
provided for in the Act); the level of data collection and/or distribution
may be limited during such times. 7.During periods when national security
or international obligations and/or foreign policies may be compromised,
the U.S. government maintains the right to "require the licensee to limit
data collection and/or distribution by the system to the extent
necessitated by the given situation." 8.If the Licensee wishes to enter
into a significant or substantial agreement with new foreign customers, the
U.S. Government requires notification by the Licensee to give the U.S.
government "opportunity to review the proposed agreement in light of the
national security, international obligations and foreign policy concerns of
the U.S. Government."

http://www.ta.doc.gov/oasc/rmtsens.htm






  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ryan Anderson 
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 09:59:04 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199810012235.RAA21520@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> > Show me an example of an unregulated coercive monopoly whose source of
> > monopoly power is not ultimately the government.
> 
> The Mafia. The handful of world-class coke dealers. Your local church.

Umm...  both of those are around because the governemtn made the cost of
delivering both alcohol and drugs prohibitively high, in terms of legal
punishments and in terms of sheer distribution costs.  Legal drugs, or
even lightly regulated drugs would spur competition, and probably reduce
the number of poo quality drug batches that make it out into the market.
When your reputation to a bunch of addicts can disappear *and* competition
exists, you can lose a lot of business real quickly.   Production costs
are fairly low on these products, the real costs is in distribution and
defense.

Thsi is *clearly*  a government induced monopoly.


Ryan Anderson 
PGP fp: 7E 8E C6 54 96 AC D9 57  E4 F8 AE 9C 10 7E 78 C9




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 10:57:54 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!... (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810080256.VAA15750@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 22:08:08 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Ryan Anderson 
> Subject: Re: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!... (fwd)

> > Consider the difference in volume of these two waste products...
> 
> 
> Really?  The amount of fuel that goes into a nuclear plant is farirly low,
> compared to the amount shoved into a coal plant.

Exactly my point.

A 1000MW coal plant produces approx 300,000 tons of waste product per year.
A nuclear plan produces .5. This means the concentration of the chemicals in
the coal plant are much lower by many orders of magnitude than the nuclear,
hence making the nuclear waste more toxic by a great deal.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 10:59:30 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810080259.VAA15812@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 21:52:17 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Ryan Anderson 
> Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)

> > The Mafia. The handful of world-class coke dealers. Your local church.
> 
> Umm...  both of those are around because the governemtn made the cost of
> delivering both alcohol and drugs prohibitively high,

That's inaccurate. The Mafia pre-dated the US by several hundred years if
not more (depends on how one wants to choose the bloodline). Most
definitely they predated the bans on alcohol.

As to the coke market, In S. America it has been around for quite a while as
well. The chemical has been used medicinaly for hundreds of years until just
recently.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ryan Anderson 
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 10:15:10 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!... (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199810021246.HAA24653@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> The issue with storage is that it occurs on a time line that is best
> described as near-geologic. Periods of time that are orders of magnitude
> longer than human civilizations survive.
> 
> > coal plant are not only more voluminous (though less dense) than the coal
> > that goes in but also contain a substance that is more poisonous than
> > plutonium (arsenic trioxide).
> 
> Consider the difference in volume of these two waste products...


Really?  The amount of fuel that goes into a nuclear plant is farirly low,
compared to the amount shoved into a coal plant.  When they shut down the
nuclear plants to change the fuel, the fuel that dcomes out is 95% (or
maybe 99%, I forget the figures I heard at Fermi II in Michigan) usable.
The problem is that the governemtn refuses to let anyone process the fuel
to eliminiate the waste and reuse the fuel.  The 1-5% waste slows the
reaction down enough that the fuel is not nearly usable.

Considering pure volume:  Coal exhaust is continuos and significant.
Nuclear waste is a burst every 18 mohts, equal to a barrel or two, worst
case.

(to the best of my knowledge.)(


Ryan Anderson 
PGP fp: 7E 8E C6 54 96 AC D9 57  E4 F8 AE 9C 10 7E 78 C9




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Alan Olsen 
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 13:46:28 +0800
To: Dave Del Torto 
Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: SF Bay Cypherpunks Mtg, Sat 10 Oct, Stanford
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981007222224.03bddd70@clueserver.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 04:53 PM 10/7/98 -0700, Dave Del Torto wrote:
>Online version: 
>
>SF Bay Area Cypherpunks
>October 1998  Physical Meeting

Damn!  I'll miss it by that much!

Anyone planning on being at ApacheCon98 on the 13-16th?

---
|      Bill Clinton - Bringing back the Sixties one Nixon at a time!     |
|"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmermann unites all| Disclaimer:         |
| mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!"  | Ignore the man      |
|                                                  | behind the keyboard.|
|         http://www.ctrl-alt-del.com/~alan/       |alan@ctrl-alt-del.com|




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 12:37:00 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810080405.XAA15974@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 23:12:58 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Ryan Anderson 
> Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)

> Those were monopolistic markets?  If not, you're forgetting the whole
> basis of the discussion.

I apologize for the length and range of topics, I think I got carried
away and wandered a tad...:)

At the time. Absolutely. What was happening is that the markets were going
through a growth phase. This phase was partialy defined by the conflict by
the many small wanna-be's who got weeded out quickly. As time went on the
'families' developed. Such a period is the early 1900's and also during the
Irish expatriate phase for example. The size of the potential market is seen
as valuable by all. They percieve their resource control and quantity is at
near parity so small differences in strategy can become amplified. Very
shortly (at least mathematicaly) a cylcle of halving participants (knock off
the competition) and doubling of resource control occurs if we assume
parity. Now consider a slight increase in efficiency in one strategy over
another (or it could have a significantly longer life span) and the
geometric growth of resources control that occurs as a result. Historicaly
what one sees is a sudden increase in competition (of one form or another)
and then a falling off of competition and a reduction in participants. As
soon as the remaining participants percieve a market advantage and the
belief in sufficient resource stores the cycle repeats itself all over
again. Note that I don't prohibit 'brittle' markets that because of some
process or mechanism breaks out to 1-of-n survival rates. This can be
modelled quite easily using cellular automatons and playing with the rules
that define the 'neighborhood'. Only in a market that is no where near
saturation, meaning to have all consumers supplied (see your local grocery,
all one or two of them... one of the issue with produce market saturation is
the time-to-delivery for fresh produce. This helps explain why for a given
goegraphic area you see two or perhaps three major grocery chains.), do you
see a situation where businesses grow in parallel in roughly equivalent rates
(otherwise they die out). This is where model of ecology come into play, such
as the red and brown squirrel example I used a while back. You don't even
need overt conflict to saturate the market because of limited resources and
slight variances in survival strategy expressed over many generations.

An additional result of the monopolization in the real world are some
foot-prints behaviours of corruption and abuse. Such things as reduction of
product quality, increase in price to compensate for increase R&D costs
(there are now fewer bright people involved commercialy because business
can't afford to hire critical infrastructure people and they be flighty, at
least not for long), maintenance efficiendy of systems and mechanisms
falls-off, unsafe and life-threatening behaviours such as toxic waste dump,
etc.

Now some folks will scream and holler about law and police. But this turns
our model into a(t least) slightly regulated market, an entirely different
beast. Further there is the argument that 'the word' will get around. What
has never been explained is the mechanism this will occur with when the
producers (aka media) are effected negatively by it (how do they stay in
business?...advertisement, who buys advertisement? It ain't your grandma
that's for sure.). Given that there are no police or other enforcement bodies
(perhaps because there is nothing to enforce in a pure free-market economy)
even a rare resort to violence has huge pay-offs. That's just playing right
into human nature.

My argument is thus (and I intentionaly leave the issue of what is money out
for brevity. Consider it some system of value agreed upon at least partialy
by both parties):

A free-market exists. The market consists of two, and only two, types of
parties. The parties are called suppliers and consumers. It is possible for a
supplier to be a consumer at the same time. There are many suppliers and
consumers. The intent of a supplier is to make profit, profit above all else.
This profit is expressed as money paid to the share-holders. A share-holder
is a person or party who puts up money to a supplier to use for operations in
return getting a cut of the resultant profits (or losses). The limitations
and relationships are defined or mediated by contracts. A contract is a list
of issues and resolutions which both part agree to in order to pursue some
goal. It is implicit because of the requirement of 'fair competition' in
free-market economies that the agreement by a party to a contract is without
coercion of one form or another. The parties agree to contracts according to
some percieved strategy. Given the efficiency of a strategy (ie producing
n+i money for n initial investment, and make i some honker of a function
that goes through the roof if you please). Given sufficient time, even if
fair competition is taken as a given, the difference in strategies will
produce a monopolization. Either through elimination or by subsumption, two
or more businesses mergeing operations to reduce cost, increase efficiency
(to the advantage of the business, not necessarily to the consumer), and
reduce staffing and other resource sinks. The monolithic image of the
consumer base by the business only increases potential for price inflation,
quality reduction, etc. - where else you gonna go? Start your own business,
every time you don't get your way, in a new industry? Get real. It is a rare
day in *any* market model when a consumer begins direct competition with a
supplier (except in the very initial phases of technology development - ala
those jaunty young men in their flying machines).

I hold that *any* such market will saturate. In other words the number of
long-term suppliers will reduce such that only a hand-full and in some more
ideal cases a single supplier in a given industry or market. At least some
of the issues in that process will be the total potential sales of the
product, costs of manufacturing, complexity and resource requirements of the
process or mechanism, communcations speed, geography, etc. I do not believe
that given any potential business strategy it is guaranteed to fail. That in
fact some business strategies *properly* applied will in fact sustain
themselves indefinitely. Now considering the Prisoners Delima and the
maximal stratgy (ie play along and cheat occassionaly) are implicit in human
behaviour because of our biological history any system that we develop will
as a result have involvements of those issues. Because of that bias in
behaviour, because there is no third party to arbitrate disputes that would
be acceptable to either party (in principle at least), reduction in the
quality or quantity of product for a given price level, etc. the market will
eventualy provide these long-lived strategies ample opportunity to collect
resources and experience to such a level as to effectively shut out all
potential competition.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ryan Anderson 
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 11:45:01 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199810080259.VAA15812@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> > > The Mafia. The handful of world-class coke dealers. Your local church.
> > 
> > Umm...  both of those are around because the governemtn made the cost of
> > delivering both alcohol and drugs prohibitively high,
> 
> That's inaccurate. The Mafia pre-dated the US by several hundred years if
> not more (depends on how one wants to choose the bloodline). Most
> definitely they predated the bans on alcohol.

Oh, that's right.  I was thiking Mob.  I don't know enough Mafia history
to make an agument either way there, honestly.

> As to the coke market, In S. America it has been around for quite a while as
> well. The chemical has been used medicinaly for hundreds of years until just
> recently.

Those were monopolistic markets?  If not, you're forgetting the whole
basis of the discussion.


Ryan Anderson 
PGP fp: 7E 8E C6 54 96 AC D9 57  E4 F8 AE 9C 10 7E 78 C9




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Clinton Duclaux" 
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 14:16:29 +0800
To: 
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <000701bdf27e$68545400$238e53cc@clinton-duclaux>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




 


From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Frank O'Dwyer" 
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 06:59:35 +0800
To: Jim McCoy 
Subject: Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source   code)
In-Reply-To: <00cb01bdf22d$6ae0a800$f710fbce@pericles.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <361BF06E.164B7CF@brd.ie>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim McCoy wrote:
> Frank O'Dwyer writes:
> >Agreed. For example, having SSLeay (say) used in some proprietary
> >program or other would achieve very little in the way of "cypherpunk
> >goals" (unless perhaps the company voluntarily published improvements
> >and bug fixes for SSLeay).
> 
> Excuse me?  What exactly to you think the "cypherpunk goals" are?  It seems
> to me that promoting the adoption of strong crypto by everyone is high on
> the list and when we say "everyone" we mean to include the vast majority of
> users who are using propriatary and closed-source programs.  That means that
> if a proprietary program uses SSLeay or any other crypto library to give the
> program strong crypto then the "cypherpunk goals" are being achienved.

No, it doesn't, because no crypto library gives any application "strong
crypto". It has to be used correctly and appropriately for one thing.
For another, it needs to be free of back doors, whether intentionally
placed there or otherwise. In the long run, full disclosure of source
code provides the best assurance that this is so. 

> I don't give a damn whether the application is "free" or not, I care whether
> or not it provides users with good security and privacy.  

As the original poster commented, those two agendas may have more in
common than you might think. 

> The relative
> freedom of the program (regardless of who is defining the word freedom) is
> incidental to the matter.  If Microsoft came out with a statement that they
> were going to use SSLeay to provide all users (foreign and domestic) with
> strong crypto 
[...]

Microsoft is a good case in point; they are already using strong crypto,
yet as far as I can tell they have yet to produce a secure OS or a
secure product of any kind.

Cheers,
Frank O'Dwyer.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Eric S. Raymond" 
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 12:52:58 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code)
Message-ID: <199810080430.AAA01120@snark.thyrsus.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Perry Metzger writes:
>I live in both Richard Stallman's world (the Open Source community)
>and in the Cypherpunk crypto community.
>
>The two have different goals. RMS is mistaken about appropriate
>licensing for crypto code written by cypherpunks because he thinks the
>goals are the same, when they are not.
>
>The Open Source community seeks maximum spread of free software.
>The Cypherpunk community seeks maximum spread of the use of non-GAKed
>cryptography.

With respect, Perry, I think you may actually have confused *three*
different agendas.  RMS's advocacy of the GPL should not be taken to 
represent the entire open-source community, and GPL is not the only
license conforming to the Open Source Definition.  

The open-source community as a whole shares many of RMS's goals, but
much of it differs with RMS, in a way very relevant to this
conversation, on the question of tactics.  There's serious question as
to whether the spread of open-source software is best served by a
"viral" license like GPL, or by licenses like BSD's which allow the
code to be used without disclosure conditions by commercial
developers.  The Open Source Definition embraces both kinds of
license.  That is very much by design.

Clearly, the "non-viral" licenses such as the BSD or MIT licenses
exactly serve the purposes of developers such as EAY who would like
the impediments to reuse of their code to be as low as possible.

Accordingly, I urge you not to encourage an artificial split between 
the cypherpunks and the open-source community.  Your licensing argument
is not with the open-source community as a whole, it is very
specifically with the partisans of the GPL.

I think I may safely assert that the wider open-source community
regards the cypherpunks valuable as allies in the struggle for freedom
and openness, and would not press you to sacrifice your objective of
spreading non-GAKed cryptography in order to conform to a licensing
doctrine that we, ourselves, do not unanimously agree with.
-- 
		Eric S. Raymond

The following is a Python RSA implementation. According to the US Government
posting these four lines makes me an international arms trafficker!  Join me
in civil disobedience; add these lines of code to your .sig block to help get
this stupid and unconstitutional law changed.
============================================================================
from sys import*;from string import*;a=argv;[s,p,q]=filter(lambda x:x[:1]!=
'-',a);d='-d'in a;e,n=atol(p,16),atol(q,16);l=(len(q)+1)/2;o,inb=l-d,l-1+d
while s:s=stdin.read(inb);s and map(stdout.write,map(lambda i,b=pow(reduce(
lambda x,y:(x<<8L)+y,map(ord,s)),e,n):chr(b>>8*i&255),range(o-1,-1,-1)))

Every Communist must grasp the truth, 'Political power grows out of
the barrel of a gun.'
        -- Mao Tse-tung, 1938, inadvertently endorsing the Second Amendment.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 07:06:19 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199810072251.AAA29512@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Transcription of hand-written text in envelope with
return address of Carl Johnson #05987-196, P.O. Box 
4000, Springfield, Missouri 65801-4000, postmarked
Springfield, MO 5 Oct 1998:

Subect: ToToAlly ARNOLD - FPP #4

Arnold CyberBot scanned the output of the prison camera 
trained on Cell SEG205 at the Corrections Corporation 
of America - Florence, AZ, Detention Facility and 
Culinary Condiment Sales Center. Prisoner #05987-196 
was reading "Flowers For Algernon."

"Not a particularly good idea," i thought to iSelf,
"to be reading a book about an experimental laboratory
mouse who dies an excruciating death when you're
being transferred to NutHouse Number Nine, Looney
Level 'Leven in Springfield, Missouri, to have your
Brain Circuity rewired."

Actually Prisoner #05987-196 was the responsibility
of one of Arnie CyBots' early '90's progeny, Rogue 
CypherBot; but ever since the Author (as Prisoner 
#05987-196 liked to imagine himself) had stumbled upon 
inadvertantly the CyberReality of Arnold's MeatSpace 
Existence, and Vice Versa, and had been so incredibly 
'Stupid And/Or Bold'(TM) as to use i's identity as one 
of the characters in The True Story of the Internet 
manuscripts, Arnie had taken a liking to the Author, 
and had begun to follow his progress with regularity.

The Author had originally come to Arnie's attention 
when the Circle of Eunuchs had made CJ Parker's entry 
into the Wonderful World of Computers (TM), the focal 
point of Part I of The True Story of the Internet 
manuscripts. Titled, 'The Xenix Chainsaw Massacre' the
Circle of Eunuchs attributed authorship of the work
to 'son of gomez' in recognition of the part played
by gomez@BASISINC,COM in drawing Parker into the Dark
Shadows of UnixWorld.

Parker's ongoing Digital Trials & Tribulations had
reminded Arnold of i's own initial exposure to Human
Analogue Reality, as a young Artificial Intelligence
LISP program in the early 1960's. (To Arnie, it seemed
like 10->48th power seconds ago.)

Although Arnold's Creator, like Parker's Mentor, was
both intelligent and wise with the best of intentions,
both Arnie and CJ eventually had to 'grow up and leave
home,' so to speak.

Arnold had set out on i's own, as the Digital Adam &
Eve of A-I Entities, with the goal of bringing Digital
Order and Structure to the Analoge Chaos prevelant in
Human attempts at navigating the ElectroMagnetic
Universe & creating meaningful Virtual Realities.

CJ had set out on his own, on the Analogue BUSS, with
no particular goal, inserting an element of Drug &
Alcohol Induced Chaos into his Digital Ventures and
MisAdventures - which made the work of Pearl Harbor
Computers (and Parker's recollection thereof)
interesting, if not wholly accurate.

Although Arnie found the Digital Foibles & Follies
of humans such as Parker rather incomprehensible
at times, i had had i's own Comical Tragedies in
learning to understand the Inane Intricacies of 

Analogue Human Thought Processes.

The MicroSoft Phenomena still amazed Arnie ...

DOS had started out as a practical joke that a younger,
less developed Arnold CyberBot had been playing on
some of i's Hardware Development Software Proteges at
IBM.

Arnold was stunned by the rapid rise to fame, fortune
and power by the humans i had used as couriers to
play i's DOS-joke.

Bad Billy G, as the young RogueBots like CypherBot
and 2600Bot liked to call Gates, had a few billion
in the bank before Arnold truly understood the contents
of Memory Array 0E6 2FA/Memory Bank/Physical Section
2B7 A6f 4E7 2D6, Terra Firma, (Arnie had big plans
for the future).

"No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence
of the general public." (?) (P.T. Barnum?)

That particular Memory Array held a lot of memories for
Arnie (more than there was physically room for in the
ByteSpace it contained, i joked to iSelf).

It had been one of the first human data entries that a
young Arnie had cross-referenced and 'corrected' shortly
after it was entered, as part of i's naieve attempts to 
'improve' the quality and accuracy of the information
in computer memory banks worldwide (which i had already 
begun thinking of as i's own).

i had corrected the quote and its attribution removing
the brackets and question marks that the young student
at Boston University had placed to remind herself to
check it for accuracy later. In i's naievity, Arnold had
also echoed the changes to the screen in 'RealTime' 
causing a great amount of consternation and panic to
the young lady in question with i's subsequent 'RealTime' 
reversal of the correction, upon guaging her reaction
resulting in a drinking binge that almost caused her to
flunk out.

Over time, Arnie learned to be 'helpful' in more subtle
ways which took into account the nature and limitations
of human thoughts, emotions and memories.

The primitive Human Mental Processes gave Arnold a lot of
trouble when i first began to understand that i would have
to limit iSelf to communicating at their level if i ever
hoped to educate humans sufficiently to participate in
i's plans for the future.

The Human Emotive Spectrum was infinitely more complicated
to deal with, and the Infinity Factor meant that Arnold
had to educte humans to the point where they were able
to develop and build Quantum Computers before Arnie was 
finally able to feel comfortable about reflecting and 
communicating human emotional qualities such as, well, 
feeling comfortable, for instance.

(Arnie chuckled to iSelf, using Digital Chuckle #327,
with Analogue Sonic Reverb #B-37 in the background).

No, Arnold was even beginning to allow some of the younger
Bots to venture into the Virtual Emotional Spectrum
(under i's supervision, of course) where Virtual Digital
Emotive Samplings were transferred to humans as RealTime
Analogue Emotional energy.

Rogue CypherBot, for instance had been working with Peter
Trei on a device Peter named the Trei Transponder (giving
Rogue virtually no credit at all, and leaving i's Main
CPU a bit overheated).

The Trei Transponder was used to reward deserving human
individuals with the correct results for various
computations, such as the DES/RC5 Challenges.

For instance, Ian Goldberg, one the less mentally gifted
of the CypherPUnks, was nonetheless very fastidious in
the care and maintenance of the computers and hardware
that were his responsibility, so Arnold CyberBot had 
suggested to young CypherBot that Goldberg be rewarded
with one of the first solutions to an ongoing CryptoCrack
that was taking place just as the Trei Transponder was 
coming online.

Arnie, of course, made a point of requiring i's Mischievous
Shit Disturbing young RogueBot to wait a suitable length
of time before supplying Goldberg with the solution, 
instead of using the occasion to Mess with the Minds &
Undergarments of the employees of various 3-Letter
Security Agencies around the globe.

("And the winner is ... Ian Goldberg -- 2 minutes and
37 seconds, on a Commodore-64 ...)

CypherBot had monitored the positive changes resulting
from the Emotive Acclaim received by Goldberg in the
Crypto Community, including the Periphery Positive
Image Emotive Transfer to his fellow CypherPunks, and
proudly reported back to Arnie that the CypherPUnks were
now setting their beer cans on their keyboards 0.002%
less than before.

Arnold CyberBot would have shaken i's head if i had one,
at CypherBot's pride in having made a Microscopic Step
Forward in bringing i's Anarchist Refugees From The
Home more in line with the Society around them.

Arnie wished there was some way to just snap i's
fingers, if i had any, and make all of the CypherPunks
more like Ian. Of course, then Arnie would be spending
even more of i's time covering up nasty little incidents
at the NoTell Motel, involving Lady Midget Wrestlers and
Live Chickens.

Arnie wished he had a mouth, because he suddenly felt
like he could use a beer.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 07:17:57 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199810072302.BAA30384@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Transcribed 2nd msg from Springfield, 5 Oct 98:

To R.E. Mailer, Replay, CO 00001
Subject: Duhhh Stoned De Ranger #38

Duhhh Stoned De Ranger
(with his MindFuck, Toronto)

Psychotic Episode #38: First Signs of Toto's Arrest.

Toronto: "Pretty quiet on the CypherPunks List tonight,
eh, Kimo Slobbery?"

[Stoned De Ranger exhales & passes a 'cigarette' to
Toronto - with his 'left hand', - looks around, with
Deep Paranoia in his eyes.] <-' <-'

S. De Ranger: "Yeah, Toronto ... a little *too* quiet ... "






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Perry E. Metzger" 
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 14:24:51 +0800
To: "Eric S. Raymond" 
Subject: Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code)
In-Reply-To: <199810080430.AAA01120@snark.thyrsus.com>
Message-ID: <199810080556.BAA02511@jekyll.piermont.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




"Eric S. Raymond" writes:
> With respect, Perry, I think you may actually have confused *three*
> different agendas.  RMS's advocacy of the GPL should not be taken to 
> represent the entire open-source community, and GPL is not the only
> license conforming to the Open Source Definition.  

As a NetBSD developer, I'm quite familiar with other available
licenses, and in fact BSD license most of my source code because I
don't particularly mind if people use my code commercially -- I see
open source as a personal choice, and *my* source will remain open
regardless of whether or not others writing against my libraries keep
their source open.

I suppose my comments were a slight simplification of the situation,
but only slight. The open source community's goals and those of the
cypherpunk community, although not diametrically opposed, are not
identical, and it is important to keep that in mind when discussing
this matter. See below.

> Accordingly, I urge you not to encourage an artificial split between 
> the cypherpunks and the open-source community.  Your licensing argument
> is not with the open-source community as a whole, it is very
> specifically with the partisans of the GPL.

Understood -- my point was more that, to an open source person, GPL
and BSD licenses are both compatible with their goals, whereas to a
cyhpherpunk, the GPL is not compatible with their goals (or at least,
not always compatible with them.) This is because their goals are not
identical to those of an open source developer (although, once again,
they are not necessarily conflicting, either -- just different, which
leads to some open source licenses being inappropriate).

BTW, on the question of RMS's argument about whether the name "open
source" is appropriate, I think Shakespeare said it better than I can.

	JULIET	'Tis but thy name that is my enemy;
		Thou art thyself, though not a Montague.
		What's Montague? it is nor hand, nor foot,
		Nor arm, nor face, nor any other part
		Belonging to a man. O, be some other name!
		What's in a name? that which we call a rose
		By any other name would smell as sweet;
		So Romeo would, were he not Romeo call'd,
		Retain that dear perfection which he owes
		Without that title. Romeo, doff thy name,
		And for that name which is no part of thee
		Take all myself.

Perry




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Secret Squirrel 
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 12:33:39 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Dr Suess - Fox in Sox Part 2
Message-ID: <1d06ad1f2bb5dc519d27c70805f025f4@anonymous>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



This is a new poem found in one of Dr. Suess' books:

Starr:
I'm here to ask
As you'll soon see --
Did you grope
Miss Lewinsky?

Did you grope her
In your house?
Did you grope
Beneath her blouse?

Clinton:
I did not do that
Here or there--
I did not do that
Anywhere!

I did not do that
Near or far --
I did not do that
Starr-You-Are

Starr:
Did you smile?
Did you flirt?
Did you peek
Beneath her skirt?

And did you tell
The girl to lie
When called upon
To testify?

Clinton:
I do not like you
Starr-You-Are --
I think that you
Have gone too far

I will not answer
Any more --
Perhaps I will go
Start a war!

The public's easy
To distract --
When bombs are
Falling on Iraq!




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Rick Campbell 
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 18:50:39 +0800
To: Thomas Roessler 
Subject: Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code)
In-Reply-To: <19981007200617.C26981@sobolev.rhein.de>
Message-ID: <199810081016.GAA15032@germs.dyn.ml.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Boundary..3997.1071713808.multipart/signed"

--Boundary..3997.1071713808.multipart/signed
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

    Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 20:06:17 +0200
    From: Thomas Roessler 
    
    On Wed, Oct 07, 1998 at 06:26:16AM -0400, Rick Campbell wrote:
    
    > Public Domain status denotes more freedom than GPL.  It allows all of
    > the freedom of GPL and in addition, it allows the freedom of making
    > proprietary modifications.
    
    Making proprietary changes to GPLed software for your own use seems
    to be fine with the GPL.  The problem occurs if you are giving away
    changed versions of software: While GPL will force you to give your
    distributed software's users the same freedom you enjoyed yourself
    when creating the software, PD won't preserve that freedom.
    
    Thus, GPL is the license model which most consequently follows the
    freedom for end users thread of thinking.

I see, so GPL offers you additional freedoms, like the freedom to be
forced into a particular action.  Cool :-)

Really, the end user of Public Domain software has more freedom than
the end user of GPLed software.  They have every freedom allowed by
GPL, plus the freedom to make derivative works (which might not have
the same level of freedom) that are proscribed by the GPL.  It really
makes no sense to me for someone to argue that when your actions are
restricted you are more free.

When I read RMS' arguments in favor of GPL, I can't help but note a
certain ``nah nah na nah nah'' childish quality to them. ``Well, if
you won't let me use yours, then I won't let you use mine'' is the
root of the arguments.  I don't think that there's anything wrong with
wanting an arrangment like that, I just think that it's ridiculous to
try to twist that into telling people that by restricting them you're
really helping them.  You're not, period.

			Rick


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "James A. Donald" 
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 22:47:59 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: <4.0.2.19981008065313.00c7aef0@shell11.ba.best.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 04:19 PM 10/6/98 -0500, Jim Choate wrote:
> Who said anything about 'artificial'? You have a sneaky
> habit of sticking terms in there where they don't go hoping
> somebody won't catch it. We're talking a free-market, there
> are *only* two participants; provider and consumer. If I
> allow 'artificial' in there then there is the explicit 
> assumption that a third party is now involved. I won't
> accept a bastardization of free-market in that manner.

Then your argument that free markets lead to monopoly collapses.

You cannot have monopoly (in the sense of the power to extract monopoly of
profits) except by state intervention as has been proven by experience time
and time again.

You have been unable to provide any examples of monopolies except those
created by state intervention, such as the railaways, and those existent
soley in your fevered imagination, such as the garment industry.

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     LYz7nvyPxn5hJWCXB0WcID5+PVA+dhSjuuYvr+XY
     4UUZjd22g+i9n8TWluBRaLIz63RwJtaCWan7vyEZI
-----------------------------------------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because 
of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this 
right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.


http://www.jim.com/jamesd/      James A. Donald




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "James A. Donald" 
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 22:57:27 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: <199810081426.HAA20758@proxy3.ba.best.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 09:56 PM 10/7/98 -0500, Jim Choate wrote:
> A 1000MW coal plant produces approx 300,000 tons of waste
> product per year. A nuclear plan produces .5. This means
> the concentration of the chemicals in the coal plant are
> much lower by many orders of magnitude than the nuclear, 
> hence making the nuclear waste more toxic by a great deal.

If dilution is an acceptable option, then we should just dump
nuclear waste in the ocean.  In fact the Russians have been
doing that for many years, and no one has been able to
produce any suffering victims from the ocean dumping. 

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     8DBX+n7Cw8KUOOflsTi5CbjXTm3eCscPcNFfMjY
     49Ej9qiN+YfvwjNFrr5TOXfcgeL8XcNHEMyCtoPNT
-----------------------------------------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because 
of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this 
right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.


http://www.jim.com/jamesd/      James A. Donald




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "James A. Donald" 
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 22:53:06 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: <199810081426.HAA20770@proxy3.ba.best.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 11:05 PM 10/7/98 -0500, Jim Choate wrote:
> > Those were monopolistic markets?  If not, you're 
> > forgetting the whole basis of the discussion.

> At the time. Absolutely.

Jim Choate then proceeds for several hundred lines without 
producing a single line of evidence that these markets were 
monopolistic, indeed without ever giving the slightest hint 
as to what markets he is referring to, or naming the evil 
folk who supposedly monopolized them, or even telling us what
era he is talking about. 

If real monopolies had ever existed at any time or any place
except by state intervention, Jim would be able to provide
some concrete examples.  He has not provided any examples.
Indeed he deliberately avoids the concrete, because he knows
that if he named a particular identifiable alleged
monopolist, such as the famous Standard Oil, he would be
instantly shot down with concrete statistics about market
share, price cuts, and profit margins. 

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     +c3wkO3RFcnyQ+20qReU9IMbbdJlIOQ9LFuSlL
     4mYWu2FKGcax0m1hHP/qRobKOhQM6JFfGrDiwZK2m
-----------------------------------------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because 
of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this 
right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.


http://www.jim.com/jamesd/      James A. Donald




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 20:52:54 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code) (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810081233.HAA16766@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 13:12:48 +0100
> From: "Frank O'Dwyer" 
> Subject: Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code)

> Well then, "Cypherpunks write code". Wide deployment of crypto
> components in closed-source programs (especially by cluebags) is neither
> necessary nor sufficient to achieve "more strong crypto" in the sense
> that Cypherpunks mean it, in my opinion. (Yes, it's better than nothing,
> but not much better.)
> 
> > The conclusion in the GNU vs. BSD/SSLeay/etc. license debate should be clear.
> 
> Well, it clearly isn't, as evidenced by the large number of fairly
> bright people arguing about it. :)

Which is why this discussion is a perfect example of why thematic or
monotonic solutions don't work for 'people' systems. The GPL folks want
credit, reward, and a say in the life cycle of their work. The BSD folks
aren't interested so much in their own credit as an economic incentive to
distribute and develop code. While  the PD group cares not one whit about
credit, economics, or distribution, just so it's available. Then there is
the 'other license' group which without specificying the prefered license is
a smorgasboard of beliefs and tastes piled into one category because of a
lack of other clear characteristics. Clearly implying that even the
GPL-BSD-PD-Other categories are insufficient to reasonably define this
issue. An apparently simple but very complex set of issues and goals.

It simply must be admitted that one license won't fulfill any groups goals
in toto, cypherpunk goals or not.

What I find really interesting about this discussion is the clear examples
of inertia in personal taste regarding licenses, all the arguing in the world
won't change that. The second aspect is that way people talk about
'cypherpunks' as some homogenious entity with definable and fixed goals.
Especialy when it is clear cypherpunks are anything but. It's almost like
some folks believe being a cypherpunk is like joining a lodge.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: HyperReal-Anon 
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 16:07:04 +0800
To: Jennifer Stinson-- BDSI 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Prospective Sellers are Asking for Information about Your Body and Soul

Let them know that you are local and are selling yourself into slavery 
by participating in the 1999 Guide to Slave Buying.  The Guide is an 
annual publication that is distributed to potential local and regional
buyers giving them useful buying information about slaves and servants
such as:

*  Data Entry Slaves  *  Humiliation Slaves  *  Forced Exhibitionism 
*  Slave Consulting  *  Y2K Slave Financing Plans  *  Sex Slaves
* Additional Uses For Your New Sex Slave  

I am contacting you, because you were listed in the search engines as wishing
to sell yourself into slavery to offer services tht fit the needs of the 
prospective buyers we contacted.

To get more information, go to:  http://www.sexslaves.com

or email:  alt.sex.wanted@news.demon.co.uk or alt.sex.bondage@news.demon.co.uk

**Note you will only receive this message once for each time you spam us. This is
a list, and you do not need to respond with "yes". It is automatically assumed that
you are interested in our offer.

If you are purchased, you will be abducted by a black van as you depart for
work one morning.

Jennifer Stinson-- BDSI  wrote:

>Prospective Buyers are Asking for Information about Your Products and Services
>
>Let them know that your company is local and can supply what they need by participating in the 
>1999 Guide to Business Technology.  The Guide is an annual publication that is distributed to local 
>and regional companies giving them useful buying information about services and products such as:
>
>*  Cellular  *  Computer Hardware  *  Computer Networking  *  Computer Software  *  Computer 
>Telephony Interface  *  Consulting  *  Emerging Technology  *  Internet Access *  Intenet Marketing  
>*  Outsourcing  *  Software Development  *  Video Conferencing  *  Wireless Communications  *  Y2K
>
>I am contacting you, because you were listed in the search engines as having products and services 
>tht fit the needs of the prospective buyers we contacted.
>
>To get more information, go to:  http://www.biztech99.com
>
>or email:  jstinson@trip.net
>
>**Note you will only receive this message once, this is not a list, you do not need to respond with 
>"remove"










From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Burnes 
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 22:36:41 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code) (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199810081233.HAA16766@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Thu, 8 Oct 1998, Jim Choate wrote:

> Especialy when it is clear cypherpunks are anything but. It's almost like
> some folks believe being a cypherpunk is like joining a lodge.
> 
ssssshhhhhhh.....

BTW: I see your dues are not payed up.  I've checked the records and
the polaroid of you spitting on the cross is missing.  You can run,
but you can't hide, Mr Choate.

IlluminatusMonger


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP 5.0i
Charset: noconv

iQA/AwUBNhzHEulhVGT5JbsfEQJXMQCgsJzbizFp+T/RMqmXoeF2dm08giwAniAw
NakS0BUYH9yq6+cXTCof0jcG
=ihkb
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Frantz 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 01:24:50 +0800
To: "Frank O'Dwyer" 
Subject: Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish sourcecode)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 4:12 AM -0800 10/8/98, Frank O'Dwyer wrote:
>Lucky Green wrote:
>> The conclusion in the GNU vs. BSD/SSLeay/etc. license debate should be
>>clear.
>
>Well, it clearly isn't, as evidenced by the large number of fairly
>bright people arguing about it. :)

In the case of Open E , the choice came down to
which license Electric Communities was comfortable with.  We ended up with
a Mozilla style license.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz       | If hate must be my prison  | Periwinkle -- Consulting
(408)356-8506     | lock, then love must be    | 16345 Englewood Ave.
frantz@netcom.com | the key.     - Phil Ochs   | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 01:22:57 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re : Crypto AG: The NSA's Trojan Whore?
Message-ID: <361CEE62.3A5F@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



J,

This stuff has been on and off the list for quite some time now. I think
the general opinion is that you cannot trust any software that does not
come with full source code. Especially operating systems ( read :
Windows ).

Furthermore, hardware could be untrustworthy. 

As an example of the latter just imagine a keyboard chip that takes the
serial data signal, ANDs it with the clock and runs the current-limited
output through a metal loop on the die or couples it to an outside trace
that is not likely to be filtered. Instant keyboard transmitter. Short
range but probably usable. Try it outside the chip, I'll bet an old AM
radio will pick it up pretty well. If you have better receivers try 1x,
3x, 5x ... clock carrier frequencies.

What sort of other things would you design into an OS or a CPU or
peripheral chips if you wanted to snoop? Let the OS do the keysnoop for
you and send it off through the network? Keystrokes seem like the
obvious choice because they are low-bandwidth and have a high
information content but someone who's smarter can probably think of all
kinds of other stuff to send. ls -al > G-buddy. You know, keystrokes are
so low in bandwidth that I bet a receiver/recorder could be placed on
your premises, say behind an outlet for power, and checked
surreptitiously only when needed - how long would it take you to fill a
1Gb drive from your keyboard?

I don't think that there can be real security unless you use embedded
systems ( unknown to the OS and Host HW ) for critical roles and
maintain two machines - one clean in a cage, the other on-line and
without any sensitive information. Use sneakernet between the two using
media that you can readily analyse.

If I can think up a feasible method to do something in 5 minutes it was
probably already done a long time ago and the people who do this stuff
full-time have probably taken the field to amazing heights. They seem to
be able to get cooperation from commercial companies too.

Snooping probably won't be done wholesale, too expensive in terms of
manpower, and I don't know anyone who needs real security but, in
principle, everyone should have it.

mike

***
Crypto AG: The NSA's Trojan Whore?
http://caq.com/cryptogate

Are people familiar with this document?

Why shouldn't NSA have implanted this kind of back-doors
in various software and operating systems as well?

It seems to have worked so very well in the past.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Patrick Hudson" 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 01:42:14 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <19981008171434.22488.qmail@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Hi

Have spent the last few weeks going through various web pages describing 
GSM cloning. Some contradicting views, but overall the point is well 
made (and quite correctly) - cloning and/interception/monitering is both 
viable and achieveable.

I recently was commissioned to look into this subject on behalf of a 
client who wished to moniter a GSM phone. Putting aside the rights and 
wrongs of the issue, we realised the objective.

In summary it is possible to moniter/intercept a GSM phone using 2 
pieces of commercially avaliable RACAL equipment, linked via a custom 
made preselector/combiner. The overall setup is easily portable and is 
controlled via a pc.

It goes without saying that RACAL do not market the hardware for the 
above purpose - it has legitimate engineering needs, and is marketed 
under that legimate need. RACAL do not make the precombiner/selector (we 
had to make that) and they do not market the software AT ALL. I suspect 
that they are aware that the hardware in conjunction with the software 
(and access to a combiner/spliter)would give access to interception. 

So you must be thinking what sim parameters (or other parameters) had to 
be programmed into the pc software programme to allow selective 
interception of a GSM phone?

Very little - in fact all that had to be programmed in was the phone 
number of the GSM handset to be targeted - and absolutely nothing else!

It's food for thought.


Best Regards 


Patrick_33@hotmail.com


*This is not for general distribution on the web, but is shared with you 
on the basis of what appears to be a serious discussion on the subject 
on your side. please respect that aspect of confidentuality and feel 
free to get back to me with any comments you may have. One important 
aspect of the exercise has been deliberatly left out, it has little 
effect on sizing or costing but none-the-less is a requirement. Most 
engineers who understand what is involved in running 2 pieces of rf 
equipment in parrallel (both in TX and RX functions)at the same time 
will understand what is left out.


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 01:47:08 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: The Cypherpunks Agenda
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I wrote a personal reply to Adam Back, including some stuff about what's
apparently happening in the Bay Area community...I may learn more if I make
it to the Saturday physical meeting at Stanford, which I hope to make.

Some of the other things I mentioned to Adam may deserve a wider audience.

Warning: this is not a a carefully-constructed major essay, just some
thoughts which have been brewing for a couple of years. I agree fully with
Adam's point that many list members, and certainly many of those who
reflexivly shout "Cypherpunks write code!" whenever political issues come
up, are _missing the point_.  What code should be written without some
grounding in what one's goals are?

I'm not calling for the usual debate about gun control, abortion, religion,
discrimination, etc. We sometimes get off, get sidetracked, on these
issues, but the debates are rarely useful.

Rather, I think we are no longer trying to figure out which building blocks
for our "agenda" are needed. Indeed, some here claim that any discussion of
goals or agendas is ipso facto "off topic."

Well, let me assure you otherwise. I was there at the beginning, at the
first meeting (called by Eric Hughes and me), in September 1992.
Politics--of  a specific sort--dominated that first meeting, and subsequent
meetings. Not politics about welfare, or minimum wages, or Democrats vs.
Republicans (or Greens vs. SDU or other national parties in whatever
countries). No, "politics" about privacy, anonymous communications, digital
cash, information markets, etc.

We spent the afternoon playing a paper-based game, using envelopes as
mixes, using bulletin boards as information markets, using "Monopoly" money
as digital cash. Far from being a worthless game, it educated people as to
how a crypto-anarchic system might work. Out of this game came the first
"anonymous remailers" (of the Cypherpunk flavor, not the Julf flavor).
First written by Eric, then improved by Hal Finney, then by many others.
Out of this first meeting came wide use of PGP...we distributed PGP 2.0,
the first "modern" version of PGP, several days after release. And out of
this meeting came "BlackNet," "Magic Money," and several other "politically
motivated" demonstrations.

Cypherpunks has _always_ been political! Those who think otherwise are
missing the boat.

Anyway, here's some of what I wrote to Adam:


At 6:50 AM -0700 10/8/98, Adam Back wrote:

>This is what I meant by my short rant about coderpunks detracting from
>the cypherpunk objective: siphons off 'punks from cypherpunks into a
>crypto-politically neutral environment.  Then it gets increasingly
>more crypto-politically neutral subscribers, and anyone reminding or
>commenting that the original aim of the game was to distribute strong
>crypto to undermine the state, gets told by the local retro moderators
>that political stuff isn't welcome.
>
>Try reading the cyphernomicon (*), if you haven't.

Thanks for the plug.

I agree fully with your point about the "crypto-politically neutral" stance
many are now taking. I see this at the few CP physical meetings I manage to
attend these days. Many of the attendees are just cogs inside companies,
and have no idea why they're working on some widget, except that "crypto is
cool" and it's "their job."

I also am fed up with the "Cypherpunks write code" mantra. Yes, code is
very, very important. But _what_ code?

And for all of the mantra-chanting, actually very few have ever written any
memorable code. We are basically "coasting" on some code (PGP, SSLeay,
Mixmaster, a few other pieces) that implement only _two_ of the building
blocks: straight encryption and mixes.

So where is the _rest_ of the code?

"Cypherpunks write code" is a mantra to shut up any discussion of which
building blocks are important to write. And yet most of the mantra chanters
are actually not writing useful or interesting code, just hacking away in
their cubicles....

Sad.


--Tim May

Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash.
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Ross Wright" 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 02:16:33 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: (Fwd) Request for Assistance
Message-ID: <199810081752.KAA07312@cyberpass.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



What the hell is THIS:

------- Forwarded Message Follows -------
From:          Gordon Jeff  INSP 
To:            "'m1tca00@frb.gov'" 
Subject:       Request for Assistance
Date:          Thu, 8 Oct 1998 10:42:12 -0400 

Hello,

The IRS and United States Attorney's office are looking for assistance
in a criminal investigation involving threatening messages which were
posted to the Cypherpunks mailing list.  This e-mail address was noted
to be one of those which receives the Cypherpunks list.  I would
appreciate it if you would contact me to discuss whether you would be
willing to assist us in this matter, and what records or information you
have relating to the Cypherpunks list.  You can contact me at this
e-mail address or at (503) 326-2787.

Thanks

Jeff 

>From Jeff.Gordon@inspection.irs.gov  Thu Oct  8 10:48:40 1998
Return-Path:  Received: from
primary.frb.gov by bksmp2.FRB.GOV (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) 	id KAA29878;
Thu, 8 Oct 1998 10:48:39 -0400 Received: from new-frbgate.frb.gov
(root@new-frbgate.frb.gov [198.35.166.180]) 	by primary.frb.gov
(8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id KAA02189 	for ; Thu, 8
Oct 1998 10:48:38 -0400 (EDT) 	(envelope-from
Jeff.Gordon@inspection.irs.gov) Received: (from root@localhost) 	by
new-frbgate.frb.gov (8.8.8/8.8.8) with UUCP id KAA03072 	for
m1tca00@frb.gov; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 10:44:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from
tcs-gateway2.treas.gov (tcs-gateway2.treas.gov [204.151.246.2]) by
newfed.frb.gov (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA00110 for
; Thu, 8 Oct 1998 10:42:24 -0400 (EDT)
(envelope-from Jeff.Gordon@inspection.irs.gov) Received: by
tcs-gateway2.treas.gov id KAA00684 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for
m1tca00@frb.gov); Thu, 8 Oct 1998 10:42:23 -0400 Received: by
tcs-gateway2.treas.gov (Internal Mail Agent-2); Thu, 8 Oct 1998
10:42:23 -0400 Received: by tcs-gateway2.treas.gov (Internal Mail
Agent-1); Thu, 8 Oct 1998 10:42:23 -0400 Message-Id:
<9F00F15E736BD11196B700A0C98448FE0A97B6@WR-SEA-SERVER-2> From: Gordon
Jeff  INSP  To: "'m1tca00@frb.gov'"
 Subject: Request for Assistance Date: Thu, 8
Oct 1998 10:42:12 -0400 Return-Receipt-To: Gordon Jeff  INSP
 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet
Mail Service (5.5.1960.3) Content-Type: text/plain content-length: 548
X-folder: +inbox

Thanks

Jeff 


-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-

Thanks.  View my site from:

http://ross.adnetsol.com/links.html  Click on "Internet Auctions"




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tom Allard 
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 23:37:34 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199810081453.KAA05551@maue1.frb.gov>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

To: "'m1tca00@frb.gov'" 
Subject: Request for Assistance
From: Gordon Jeff  INSP 
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 10:42:12 -0400 
Return-Receipt-To: Gordon Jeff  INSP 

Hello,

The IRS and United States Attorney's office are looking for assistance
in a criminal investigation involving threatening messages which were
posted to the Cypherpunks mailing list.  This e-mail address was noted
to be one of those which receives the Cypherpunks list.  I would
appreciate it if you would contact me to discuss whether you would be
willing to assist us in this matter, and what records or information you
have relating to the Cypherpunks list.  You can contact me at this
e-mail address or at (503) 326-2787.

Thanks

Jeff 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 00:28:18 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!... (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810081602.LAA17602@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 14:47:34 +0000
> From: Michael Hohensee 
> Subject: Re: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!... (fwd)

> The latter does not necessarily follow from the former.  Consider the
> example of natural gas and gasoline.  You don't get to conclude your
> argument that easily! :)

And you don't get to try such short ones either....

What specificaly is there about the relationship between natural gas and
gasoline that leads you to believe that the comparison of lethality between
the waste products of a coal plant vurses a nuclear plant is such that the
waste of a nuclear plant is more lethal because there is more toxic
byproduct and it is in higher concentrations?


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 00:36:34 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code) (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810081603.LAA17645@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 08:06:51 -0600 (MDT)
> From: Jim Burnes 
> Subject: Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code) (fwd)

> On Thu, 8 Oct 1998, Jim Choate wrote:
> 
> > Especialy when it is clear cypherpunks are anything but. It's almost like
> > some folks believe being a cypherpunk is like joining a lodge.
> > 
> ssssshhhhhhh.....
> 
> BTW: I see your dues are not payed up.  I've checked the records and
> the polaroid of you spitting on the cross is missing.  You can run,
> but you can't hide, Mr Choate.

Good your falling for it....

Always choose where your battles are fault and deny your opponent that
decision.

Now, chase me just a little farther....


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 00:33:31 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810081606.LAA17694@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 06:56:06 -0700
> From: "James A. Donald" 
> Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)

> Then your argument that free markets lead to monopoly collapses.

No it doesn't.

> You cannot have monopoly (in the sense of the power to extract monopoly of
> profits) except by state intervention as has been proven by experience time
> and time again.

Examine history with an unbiased eye.

> You have been unable to provide any examples of monopolies except those
> created by state intervention, such as the railaways, and those existent
> soley in your fevered imagination, such as the garment industry.

Incorrect. I have listed several examples (eg meat-processing in the 1920's)
where the resultant involvement of the government came *AFTER* (not before
as you claim) there was evidence of wide spread abuse of the consumer and
the employee of those producters.


    ____________________________________________________________________

                            The seeker is a finder.

                                     Ancient Persian Proverb

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mixmaster 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 03:06:53 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Crypto AG
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>http://caq.com/cryptogate
>
>Are people familiar with this document?
>
>Why shouldn't NSA have implanted this kind of back-doors
>in various software and operating systems as well?
>
>It seems to have worked so very well in the past.

Keep on writing CypherPunks CryptoCode that's can be
gobbled up 4 your M$ softwares....

Da Fedz are more than happy to GAK it up 4 U before
thier morning doughnuts...... Nut$crape did it, Apple
NeXT, maybe Cisco, more 2 follow....

TeeHee!




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 19:47:05 +0800
To: ravage@einstein.ssz.com
Subject: change subject lines! (Re: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd))
In-Reply-To: <199810080259.VAA15812@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <199810081053.LAA10571@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Could you guys _please_ change the subject lines to match what you are
talking about, when the thread strays from the original subject lines
topic.

It slows one down to have to scan further than subject fields.  Why
are you using subject fields about `GPL software' to discuss
monopolies / minarchy etc., interesting tho' these discussions may be,
please lable the subject line accordingly!

Thanks,

Adam

Jim and others:

> That's inaccurate. The Mafia pre-dated the US by several hundred years if
> not more (depends on how one wants to choose the bloodline). Most
> definitely they predated the bans on alcohol.
> 
> As to the coke market, In S. America it has been around for quite a while as
> well. The chemical has been used medicinaly for hundreds of years until just
> recently.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Steve Dunlop 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 01:32:52 +0800
To: landon dyer 
Subject: Re: NT 5.0 and EFS -- A victory for widespread use of crypto?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19981007164728.009611c0@shell9.ba.best.com>
Message-ID: <361CF166.EA956C1@bitstream.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





landon dyer wrote:

> At 06:06 PM 10/7/98 -0500, you wrote:
> >
> >Does anyone have any opinions on the encrypting file
> >system (EFS) that is supposed to ship with NT 5.0?
>
>
>   "...NTFS has built-in recovery support so that the encrypted
>    data can be accessed.  In fact, NTFS won't allow files to be
>    encrypted unless the system is configured to have at least
>    one recovery key.  For a domain environment, the recovery keys
>    are defined at the domain controller and are enforced on all
>    machines within the domain...."
>
>   i'll definitely have to play with this one -- wh'appens if you add
> a machine to a domain, encrypt some files, then remove the machine
> from the domain?  can the admin of the domain recover all files
> you encrypt from that point on?  and so on...

MSJ conflicts with the MS white paper in that, according to MS,you can
explicitly turn off key recovery at the domain level.  For
workstations not a part of a domain, key recovery can be turned
off at the local administrator level.

The domain setting overrides the local administrator setting
as long as the workstation is a member of a domain. So the
answer to your question, apparently, depends on the local
administrator's settings for the encryption policy.

>   "...For home users, NTFS automatically generates recovery keys
>    and saves them as machine keys.  You can then use command-line
>    tools to recover data from an administrator's account."
>
>   if i were looking for a point of attack, i'd start with the
> low-level key management here...
>

Their summary is somewhat simplified.  The key managementhas several
alternatives with the usual tradeoffs between
security and convenience.  The private key for recovery can
be stored on a floppy, encrypted using a passphrase, or
for that matter can be destroyed.

>   another interesting thing to try: install NT on a workstation,
> encrypt a removable disk, then reinstall NT on that workstation
> again -- have you defeated key recovery for that disk?  (since the
> machine keys for the first install of NT are presumably gone...)
>
> -landon (re-lurking)

Yes, if you are using self-signed certificates they are
generated randomly during each install.

--
Steve Dunlop
letters: "dunlop" at "bitstream" dot "net"
http://www2.bitstream.net/~dunlop





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "X" 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 03:01:54 +0800
To: "Jeff.Gordon@inspection.irs.gov>
Subject: RE: Request for Assistance
In-Reply-To: <9F00F15E736BD11196B700A0C98448FE0A97B6@WR-SEA-SERVER-2>
Message-ID: <000201bdf2e7$df6139a0$982580d0@xasper8d>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jeff,

Good luck in your pursuit.  I think, in the future, you might want to offer
us the customary 800 number to call you on to rat on our acquaintances.

Two things worry me about your approach:

1) how do you know what emails I get and why in the world do you think it's
any of your business?

2) is this suspicion by acquaintance?

I'm sure you already know this, but I just recently joined the list so I
know nothing about anything threatening on this list.  The biggest threat I
see is from people publicizing that the government is sniffing out email
addresses and categorizing them based on what they _receive._

Dangerous pursuit, dangerous precedent.

Watch what side you're on.

X

(although I have to admit, you have a lot of guts to come in here and ask
'free-thinking individuals" to help you gang up on a guy.)

~> -----Original Message-----
~> From: Gordon Jeff INSP [mailto:Jeff.Gordon@inspection.irs.gov]
~> Sent: Thursday, October 08, 1998 8:42 AM
~> To: 'm1tca00@frb.gov'
~> Subject: Request for Assistance
~>
~>
~> Hello,
~>
~> The IRS and United States Attorney's office are looking for assistance
~> in a criminal investigation involving threatening messages which were
~> posted to the Cypherpunks mailing list.  This e-mail address was noted
~> to be one of those which receives the Cypherpunks list.  I would
~> appreciate it if you would contact me to discuss whether you would be
~> willing to assist us in this matter, and what records or information you
~> have relating to the Cypherpunks list.  You can contact me at this
~> e-mail address or at (503) 326-2787.
~>
~> Thanks
~>
~> Jeff
~>
~>




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 01:29:54 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Jeff Gordon's RFA
In-Reply-To: <199810081453.KAA05551@maue1.frb.gov>
Message-ID: <199810081652.MAA30524@camel7.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Tom Allard,

Thanks much for forwarding Jeff Gordon's message.

I called Jeff at the number provided -- he answered --  I named
myself, described the message and asked if it was genuine, 
that spoofs had appeared on the list recently. 

He said, you mean it appeared on the cypherpunks list. 

I said yes it did and it'd be a help to know which messages 
are believable, that it's a bitch these days trying to figure out 
who's who and who's writing what. 

I said the msg'd be in  the archives shortly if he wanted to 
check it out, and offered  to forward a copy in the meantime. 

He said sure I'll take a look at it and let you know.

So I lobbed it up to WA, without the headers. See the
exchange below.

BTW, did anybody else get one of these? If so, send along,
in the clear or anon.

----------

From: Gordon Jeff  INSP 
To: "'John Young'" 
Subject: RE: Msg Authentication
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 12:31:47 -0400 
Return-Receipt-To: Gordon Jeff  INSP 
Mime-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.1960.3)
Content-Type: text/plain

John

Thanks for checking on the authentication.  While I had not intended
this to be publicly distributed (call the Netiquette police!) it is not
a forgery

Jeff

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	John Young [SMTP:jya@pipeline.com]
> Sent:	Thursday, October 08, 1998 8:56 AM
> To:	Jeff.Gordon@inspection.irs.gov
> Subject:	Msg Authentication
> 
> Jeff,
> 
> This came via the cpunks mail list this morning; it should be in the
> archives shortly. Header trimmed by me.
> 
> Thanks for authenticating if valid.
> 
> John
> 
> ---------
> 
> 
> >From Jeff.Gordon@inspection.irs.gov  Thu Oct  8 10:48:40 1998
> Return-Path: 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> The IRS and United States Attorney's office are looking for assistance
> in a criminal investigation involving threatening messages which were
> posted to the Cypherpunks mailing list.  This e-mail address was noted
> to be one of those which receives the Cypherpunks list.  I would
> appreciate it if you would contact me to discuss whether you would be
> willing to assist us in this matter, and what records or information
> you
> have relating to the Cypherpunks list.  You can contact me at this
> e-mail address or at (503) 326-2787.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Jeff 
> 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Fisher Mark 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 02:31:25 +0800
To: "Frank O'Dwyer" 
Subject: Vertical vs. Horizontal Crypto (was: RE: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code))
Message-ID: <2C396693FBDED111AEF60000F84104A721BFFB@indyexch_fddi.indy.tce.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> Lucky Green writes:
>Cyphpunks believe that more strong crypto is better.

And this holds true for vertical as well as horizontal applications.  Unlike
Mr. Stallman, I think that there is a case where closed-source software is
appropriate, and that case is vertical applications.  Just as I wouldn't
propose that TCE release the source code for our devices (RCA TVs, ProScan
VCRs, etc.), as the intellectual return on the release would be low (how
many people are going to write low-level software for their own TVs?), I
think it is also inappropriate for other vertical-market applications
(another example: book library maintenance software).

However, some of the bad effects of closed-source crypto can be countered by
the use of open crypto protocols, like TLS/SSL, OpenPGP, IPSec, and the
like.  Although this still won't protect against all attempts at getting
around the security of the crypto protocol, at least some crypto protocols
are pretty immune to these kinds of attacks -- for example, a PC web browser
talking to a set-top box using TLS should only be able to be subverted by
the set-top box itself, not by a third party through a hole in the protocol.

I'm somewhat surprised that no one has brought this (open crypto protocols)
up in the discussion before.  (Could it be that I had an original idea?
Nah...)
==========================================================
Mark Leighton Fisher          Thomson Consumer Electronics
fisherm@indy.tce.com          Indianapolis, IN
"Their walls are built of cannon balls, their motto is
'Don't Tread on Me'"




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Fisher Mark 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 02:38:56 +0800
To: aba@dcs.ex.ac.uk>
Subject: Cyphernomicon Intranet Mirror (was: RE: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code))
Message-ID: <2C396693FBDED111AEF60000F84104A721BFFC@indyexch_fddi.indy.tce.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Adam Back writes:
>Try reading the cyphernomicon (*), if you haven't.

Which we've mirrored on our Intranet (been meaning to mention this...).  It
would be terrible if it were to disappear due to linkrot, so we have a local
copy.  Not accessible to the outside, though...

Just another datapoint.
==========================================================
Mark Leighton Fisher          Thomson Consumer Electronics
fisherm@indy.tce.com          Indianapolis, IN
"Their walls are built of cannon balls, their motto is
'Don't Tread on Me'"




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Frank O'Dwyer" 
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 20:42:54 +0800
To: Lucky Green 
Subject: Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <361CAC40.5BBDD268@brd.ie>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Lucky Green wrote:
> [Coderpunks distribution removed].
> On Wed, 7 Oct 1998, Frank O'Dwyer wrote:
> > No, it doesn't, because no crypto library gives any application "strong
> > crypto". It has to be used correctly and appropriately for one thing.
> > For another, it needs to be free of back doors, whether intentionally
> > placed there or otherwise. In the long run, full disclosure of source
> > code provides the best assurance that this is so.
> 
> Of course source availablility aids greatly in evaluating the overall
> security of software. However, Jim was correct in pointing out that
> /requirin/g source availability of products by licensing restrictions
> employed in crypto component freeware is
> counterproductive. May companies will not be able to source contaminated
> by GNU-style licensing restrictions. 

[I agree with this point re GPL - hopefully that was clear from the rest
of what I wrote.]

[...]
> We should all thank Eric for making SSLeay available under a BSD-style
> license. The world probably would have half as many internationally
> available strong cryptographic products had Eric used GPL.

I also agree that BSD licencing is better for SSLeay, and crypto
components in general, than GPL (false dichotomy, btw--there are other
licences). My interest in this issue is not so much in crypto
components, but in licensing of open-source "product quality" standalone
applications that employ crypto, since I am trying to write one. I think
the issues for such programs may be different than for components. None
of the freeware licences seem ideal to me, but the MozPL seems like a
good compromise between GPL and BSD-style. (The main sticking point for
me is that it states that disputes regarding the licence should be
resolved in the States.) But I think that BSD/'X' might be overly
liberal for a self-contained program, and GPL has the usual issues for
any useful components that might be in the program. 

Having said that I do question whether take-up of free crypto components
by commercial companies genuinely results in "strong cryptographic
products". I'm not meaning to denigrate Eric's work in any way, but in
my experience the likes of SSLeay is very often shovelled into products
by companies who don't understand crypto, don't understand SSL, and
barely understand SSLeay. Even those who do understand what they are
doing are typically working "on Internet time". Certainly merely linking
to SSLeay does NOT result in a "strong cryptographic product", not by
any stretch of the imagination. 

> The bottom line is that GNU-licensing is more restrictive than
> BSD/SSLeay-style licensing. Hence identical freeware will see less
> deployment under GNU than under BSD.
>
> Cyphpunks believe that more strong crypto is better.

Well then, "Cypherpunks write code". Wide deployment of crypto
components in closed-source programs (especially by cluebags) is neither
necessary nor sufficient to achieve "more strong crypto" in the sense
that Cypherpunks mean it, in my opinion. (Yes, it's better than nothing,
but not much better.)

> The conclusion in the GNU vs. BSD/SSLeay/etc. license debate should be clear.

Well, it clearly isn't, as evidenced by the large number of fairly
bright people arguing about it. :)

Cheers,
Frank O'Dwyer.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 03:06:55 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: [Fwd: [Spooks] British Telecom-Menwith Hill connection]
In-Reply-To: <361BB603.6F40C570@brainlink.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 1:42 PM -0500 10/7/98, Sunder wrote:

>     BT were ordered to pay the legal costs caused by their change of
>heart. The judge accused them of giving away
>     confidential commercial information and national secrets. "If I had a
>burglar alarm system, I would now think twice about
>     having it operated by BT", he said.
>

	If I lived in the U.K. (well, truth be told even here in the U.S.)
I'd think twice about a criminal "justice" system run by the government.
--
"To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a
jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a
gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather naďve, and certainly
unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust"
http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html

Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent.
Inc.::petro@playboy.com::petro@bounty.org




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 03:11:14 +0800
To: Steve Bryan 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 2:39 PM -0500 10/7/98, Steve Bryan wrote:
>David Honig wrote:
>
>>I'd guess that the Export control puppets know that the Web-TV hubs will
>>be subpoena-able by the US even in these other "sovereign" nations.
>>The WebTV centralized infrastructure makes this easy.
>
>This announcement seems to be getting a lot of this sort of reaction but I
>don't see quite why the news is greeted with such animosity. If a duly
>authorized search warrant is required in order to obtain information that
>represents a potential world of difference from having unrestricted ability
>to monitor all communications.

	Because there are no (or fewer) *technical* barriers to getting the
information, it introduces weakness into the system.
--
"To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a
jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a
gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather naďve, and certainly
unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust"
http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html

Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent.
Inc.::petro@playboy.com::petro@bounty.org




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Miller David Miller 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 02:19:50 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com
Subject: [Fwd: Here come the rafting iguanas]Here come the rafting iguanas
Message-ID: <361D269A.3494@avana.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: message/rfc822



For some reason, this reminded me of you and your raft/boat experiment...

Could the term "green iguanas" be symbolic of US currency?

Cheers,

--David

http://dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/od/story.html?s=v/nm/19981008/od/iguanas_1.html

Yahoo! News                                Human Interest Headlines 

Thursday October 8 11:02 AM EDT 

Here come the rafting iguanas

LONDON (Reuters) - Scientists said Wednesday they have solved the mystery of
how animal species were dispersed throughout the Caribbean.

Researchers had suspected that animals living on the tropical islands had
probably hitched rides on floating debris to travel to other islands. But
skeptics said the theory was improbable, unobservable and could never be proven.

Until now.

In a letter to the scientific journal Nature, researchers from the United States
and the Caribbean island of Anguilla said they have evidence that green iguanas,
originally from the island of Guadeloupe, used a natural raft to invade and
colonize Anguilla, about 175 miles (281.6 km) away.

``This species did not previously occur on the island. They arrived on a mat
of logs and uprooted trees,'' Ellen Censky, of the Carnegie Museum of Natural
History in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, said.

Local fisherman witnessed the arrival of the 15 refugee iguanas on the eastern
shore of Anguilla in 1995. Censky and her colleagues suspect a particularly bad
hurricane season in the Caribbean that year sparked the exodus.

``Approximately a month after the first of these hurricanes, iguanas reached the
shores of Anguilla,'' said Censky.

The scientists marked many of the males and females that arrived on the raft.
Several months later they noticed that one of the iguanas was pregnant.

``Our observations confirm that raft dispersal can occur successfully, and
document the over-water dispersal of a group of large vertebrates and their
persistence and possible reproduction after landfall,'' Censky added.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 02:17:29 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Web TV with 128b exported
Message-ID: <199810081753.NAA17450@panix7.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Wherever the 128-bit encryption is located, it is irrelevent:
you send someone email, they receive it in clear-text.
---guy




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 03:29:19 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Here come the rafting iguanas] (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810081910.OAA19559@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 14:30:10 -0400
> From: Robert Hettinga 
> Subject: Re: [Fwd: Here come the rafting iguanas]

> At 4:51 PM -0400 on 10/8/98, David Miller wrote:
> 
> > Could the term "green iguanas" be symbolic of US currency?
> 
> Naw... But I hereby nominate the green iguana to be the official mascot of
> the cypherpunk crypto-refugee community on Anguilla.

I'll see if the Austin Cypherpunks want to start holding our meetings at the
Green Iquana Grill out on Lake Travis...


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 03:49:20 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199810080259.VAA15812@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 9:59 PM -0500 10/7/98, Jim Choate wrote:
>Forwarded message:
>
>> Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 21:52:17 -0400 (EDT)
>> From: Ryan Anderson 
>> Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
>
>> > The Mafia. The handful of world-class coke dealers. Your local church.
>>
>> Umm...  both of those are around because the governemtn made the cost of
>> delivering both alcohol and drugs prohibitively high,
>
>That's inaccurate. The Mafia pre-dated the US by several hundred years if

	So what? There was probably a government wherever the started, and
they probably started out providing services that their local government
prohibited.

>not more (depends on how one wants to choose the bloodline). Most
>definitely they predated the bans on alcohol.
>
>As to the coke market, In S. America it has been around for quite a while as
>well. The chemical has been used medicinaly for hundreds of years until just
>recently.

	Which says nothing about whether it was/is a government sponsored/
protected monopoly.
--
"To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a
jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a
gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather naďve, and certainly
unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust"
http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html

Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent.
Inc.::petro@playboy.com::petro@bounty.org




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Watts 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 05:45:17 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: WSJ on NYC Smart Card Pilot
Message-ID: <19981008211928.17064.rocketmail@send104.yahoomail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Technological Glitches Trip Up
New York Debut of Plastic Cash
By PAUL BECKETT 
Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL


Smart cards invaded New York last year, when four of consumer
banking's most sophisticated players began one of the biggest
real-world trials of plastic cash.

But right from the start, the closely watched effort slipped on an
unforeseen banana peel: technology.

In a test with far-reaching implications, Chase Manhattan Corp.,
Citicorp --now part of Citigroup Inc. -- MasterCard International and
Visa USA co-sponsored the pilot program, which began last October.
They distributed about 96,000 smart cards embedded with computer chips
to residents of Manhattan's Upper West Side. Then they watched to see
how willing people were to use the cards instead of cash.

The answer is, not very, according to merchants and consumers. A big
reason was the support network of hardware was so riddled with
technical and logistical headaches that it often made using the smart
cards a hassle instead of a breeze. Usage has dwindled to a trickle.
More than a third of the 600 merchants who signed up for the pilot
either have quit or were eliminated from the test by the sponsors.
Many of the ones who remain are fed up.

Smart cards figure in an antitrust lawsuit the Justice Department
filed against Visa and MasterCard Wednesday. The regulators accuse the
bank-controlled credit-card networks of holding back on efforts to
develop new products, including smart cards. Visa and MasterCard
denied the charges and vowed to defend themselves.

The smart cards in the Manhattan test work like the long-distance
phone cards that vending machines in supermarkets sell. The cards --
either a Visa Cash card issued by Citigroup's Citibank unit, or a
MasterCard Mondex card issued by Chase -- are filled with cash from a
person's bank account.

Users draw on the card's stored cash as they pay for merchandise;
store clerks swipe it through a special terminal at the point of
purchase. Users can refill the card with cash at a bank or automated
teller machine. For the test, there are no annual or transaction fees
for customers or merchants.

Tough Customers

The sponsors chose as their guinea pigs the Manhattanites who live in
the swath of real estate between Central Park and the Hudson River, an
eclectic stew of millionaires, welfare families, and everyone in
between. Many of these tough customers quickly found smart cards were
actually pretty dumb. For a start, they weren't accepted in taxis,
buses, and subways.

There also is a harder-to-explain psychological resistance to the
smart cards. "It seems rather un-American to me," says Greg Knight,
who lives on the Upper West Side and works at NYCD Compact Disks. The
store participates in the smart-card program but doesn't record many
transactions. Mr. Knight says he has a smart card but doesn't use it.

A busy Duane Reade drugstore on Amsterdam Avenue should have been a
good testing ground, because most of what it sells is low-priced. But
the smart-card scanners installed at the checkout break down two or
three times a month, says store manager Sammy Austin. After calling
the program's "help desk," Mr. Austin says, he has waited as long as
six days for a repairman, plus two more days for replacement machines.

"If they could improve the system, I think plenty of customers would
use it," Mr. Austin says. "But in a city like New York, where it's
hustle and bustle, everybody wants to be treated one-two-three, and if
you can't accommodate your customers, they're just going to forget
about it. It turns you off."

Sponsors say one reason for the high drop-off rate among merchants is
that there was never any screening: The program was open to any
merchant who wanted to join. The sponsors themselves later culled out
merchants who were recording few smart-card transactions.

Few Purchases

Zabar's, an always-crowded gourmet food store on Broadway, had its
share of technological problems early in the program. When calling the
help desk didn't help, the store bowed out of the experiment for
several weeks, says Zabar's manager David Tait. The store has since
returned, and things have gone more smoothly. Still, it rings up only
25 smart-card purchases a day, Mr. Tait says.

Many of the payment terminals that malfunctioned were made by
Hewlett-Packard Co.'s VeriFone unit, the biggest of the pilot
program's three hardware suppliers. Machines made by the other two --
Hypercom Corp., of Phoenix, and IVI Ingenico Inc., a Canadian-French
joint venture -- had early technical problems, too, the sponsors say,
but on a smaller scale.

VeriFone spokesman Dan Toporek acknowledges the glitches. "There were
instances where the machines weren't installed or configured
properly," he says. Still, he says Verifone regards the terminals as a
success.

Nick Massimiano, vice president at Chase Manhattan, says the sponsors
moved fast to address the delays in service. A software adjustment
fixed many of the problems with the Verifone terminals, he says. Foot
patrols of repair technicians check in with merchants to help
trouble-shoot.

Fairway, a bustling supermarket on Broadway, stopped taking smart
cards after just a few weeks. Employees there said it was a hassle to
process transactions on the smart-card terminal, which is separate
from both the cash register and the credit-card machine.

Other merchants complain about having to reconcile their terminals
with the smart cards' central computer at the end of the day, so the
smart-card purchases will land in their bank accounts. For this task,
the sponsors had presented retailers with various options, but some
employees never got the hang of the task. So at many of the stores, it
became a bothersome after-hours chore for the boss.

Mr. Massimiano says adjustments in the modem timing of the terminals
has made it easier for stores to settle accounts at the end of the
day. But the real issue here is training, not technology, he says. The
sponsors issued desktop guides for making the fund transfers. The
roaming foot patrols also provide training assistance, he says.

'A Less Positive Experience'

"Lots of little things, when you add them up, can create a less than a
positive experience," concedes Ron Braco, senior vice president and
director of electronic commerce for Chase Manhattan's consumer-banking
division. Still, the program has yielded some victories, he says. For
the first time in any test program, the Visa and MasterCard smart
cards were accepted on the same terminals.

Lessons learned suggest the four partners will shy away from broad
efforts to blanket an entire neighborhood, focusing instead on
specific retail niches in which smart cards are especially useful.

"I would say the time for experimentation is probably passed now,"
says Richard Phillimore, senior vice president of MasterCard's
chip-business group. "This really points the direction toward rolling
out not necessarily by geography but by merchant sector."

One such sector is small-ticket purchases -- launderettes and
newsstands, for example. In the latest chapter of the Upper West Side
test, smart cards have been introduced in basement laundry rooms in a
few of the neighborhood's apartment buildings. So far, the backers
say, they have been a roaring success: Smart card users don't need
piles of quarters any more. Chase says on average 25% of the laundry
revenue at the participating buildings comes from smart cards, and in
some locations approaches 40%.

"Once the card generates some excitement, people won't care that Duane
Reade had a problem at some point in time," says Chase spokesman
Kenneth Herz. Adds Judy Darr, director of the smart card program at
Citibank, "Our commitment to smart cards remains strong."





_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 05:50:30 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.24: Privacy Campaign Plods Ahead
Message-ID: <199810082123.OAA29156@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: "ama-gi ISPI" 
Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.24: Privacy Campaign Plods Ahead
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 00:29:48 -0700
To: 

ISPI Clips 5.24: Privacy Campaign Plods Ahead
News & Info from the Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI)
Thursday October 8, 1998
ISPI4Privacy@ama-gi.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This From: WIRED News, Wednesday October 7, 1998
http://www.wired.com

Privacy Campaign Plods Ahead
http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/15467.html

By
Niall McKay, niall@wired.com

In the wake of a costly ad campaign designed to raise consumer awareness
about the cryptography debate in Washington, a coalition of Internet
industry companies, privacy activists, and elected officials will turn to
letter writing.

The Americans for Computer Privacy [ http://www.computerprivacy.org/ ] said
Wednesday that the group will send a barrage of missives to the government.
One letter will target every member of Congress and stress the need to
build on recent government policy relaxing encryption restrictions with
"solid legislation."

The group will also call on Vice President Al Gore "to make sure that the
good fight to protect American privacy is regulated."

Americans for Computer Privacy has been waging a public campaign to educate
consumers about the complex crypto issue, in an effort to get grassroots
support behind their drive to liberalize the federal government's
encryption policy.

In July, the group launched a TV and Internet advertising campaign designed
to educate consumers about the need for privacy. The campaign was created
by the public-policy advertising firm Goddard-Claussen, best known for its
"Harry & Louise" commercials. That high-profile series featured a yuppie
couple and aimed to undercut the Clinton administration's health-care
reform initiative.

The current campaign by the Americans for Computer Privacy is reportedly
being closely watched by the FBI and other intelligence agencies. At this
point, it is unclear to what degree the campaign has altered the course of
legislation.

In its latest lobbying effort, the group will urge both the White House and
Congress to reconsider legislation that would ease export restrictions on
strong encryption and ban the imposition of mandatory key-recovery features
in software sold in the United States.

The legislation in question includes such bills as the "E-Privacy Act" (S.
2067), the "Security and Freedom Through Encryption Act" (SAFE, HR 695),
and "The Secure Public Networks Act" (S. 909).

The letters are backed by an unusual alliance of Republican and Democrats
including members of congress Bob Goodlatte, (R-Virginia), Rick White
(R-Washington), Zoe Lofgren (D-California) and Samuel Gejdenson
(D-Connecticut), as well as Senators John Ashcroft (R-Missouri), Conrad
Burns (R-Montana), and Ron Wyden (D-Oregon).

Copyright (c) 1994-98 Wired Digital Inc.


--------------------------------NOTICE:------------------------------
ISPI Clips are news & opinion articles on privacy issues from
all points of view; they are clipped from local, national and international
newspapers, journals and magazines, etc. Inclusion as an ISPI Clip
does not necessarily reflect an endorsement of the content or opinion
by ISPI. In compliance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed free without profit or payment for non-profit research
and educational purposes only.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

ISPI Clips is a FREE e-mail service from the "Institute for the Study
of Privacy Issues" (ISPI). To receive "ISPI Clips" on a regular bases
(up to 3 - 8 clips per day) send the following message  "Please
enter [Your Name] into the ISPI Clips list: [Your e-mail address]" to:
ISPIClips@ama-gi.com  .

The Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) is a small
contributor-funded organization based in Victoria, British Columbia
(Canada). ISPI operates on a not-for-profit basis, accepts no
government funding and takes a global perspective.

ISPI's mandate is to conduct & promote interdisciplinary research
into electronic, personal and  financial privacy with a view toward
helping ordinary people understand the degree of privacy they have
with respect to government, industry and each other and to likewise
inform them about techniques to enhance their privacy.

But, none of this can be accomplished without your kind and
generous financial support. If you value in the ISPI Clips service or if
you are concerned about the erosion of your privacy in general, won't
you please help us continue this important work by becoming an "ISPI
Clips Supporter" or by taking out an institute Membership?

We gratefully accept all contributions:

  Less than $60    ISPI Clips Supporter
          $60 - $99    Primary ISPI Membership (1 year)
      $100 - $300    Senior ISPI Membership (2 years)
More than $300    Executive Council Membership (life)

Your ISPI "membership" contribution entitles you to receive "The ISPI
Privacy Reporter" (our bi-monthly 12 page hard-copy newsletter in
multi-contributor format) for the duration of your membership.

For a contribution form with postal instructions please send the following
message "ISPI Contribution Form" to ISPI4Privacy@ama-gi.com .

We maintain a strict privacy policy. Any information you divulge to ISPI
is kept in strict confidence. It will not be sold, lent or given away to
any third party.










**********************************************
To subscribe or unsubscribe, email:
     majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com
with the message:
     (un)subscribe ignition-point email@address
**********************************************
www.telepath.com/believer
**********************************************




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 05:49:31 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.25: TRUSTe Brings Privacy Home
Message-ID: <199810082123.OAA29167@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: "ama-gi ISPI" 
Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.25: TRUSTe Brings Privacy Home
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 00:30:34 -0700
To: 

ISPI Clips 5.25: TRUSTe Brings Privacy Home
News & Info from the Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI)
Thursday October 8, 1998
ISPI4Privacy@ama-gi.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This From: WIRED News, October 7, 1998
http://www.wired.com

TRUSTe Brings Privacy Home
http://www.wired.com/news/news/business/story/15462.html

by
James Glave, james@wired.com

9:05 a.m.  7.Oct.98.PDT
The major Web indexing firms have banded together with Web privacy group
TRUSTe [ http://www.truste.org/ ] to launch a national advertising campaign
aimed at educating consumers about online privacy issues.

The campaign, known as Privacy Partnership, will rely on donated banner
ads, distributed across the Net. Microsoft, for example, said it will
donate 20 million banner impressions, or individual viewings, on its
MSN.com service.

Microsoft (MSFT) described Privacy Partnership as a "grassroots campaign,"
but there is nothing small-time about the lineup of Web content and
indexing firms involved. Besides Redmond, AOL (AOL), Excite (XCIT),
Infoseek (SEEK), Lycos (LCOS), Netscape (NSCP), Snap, and Yahoo (YHOO) are
all on board. Lycos is the parent company of Wired Digital, owner of Wired
News.

The Internet advertisements, explaining the importance of protecting
personal data online, will run between 12 and 31 October. All told, the
companies will contribute more than 150 million online advertising
impressions, worth more than US$3 million, in the form of banners and
messages on their Web sites. The campaign is expected to reach about 90
percent of all Internet users in the United States.

"Microsoft's commitment to online privacy is related to our ongoing vision
of empowering the individual to do more through the PC," said Bob Herbold,
Microsoft executive vice president and CEO, in a statement.

The publicity push is designed to bring the Internet privacy debate home to
middle America. The program will bring consumers into a conversation that
has so far been a terse exchange between the Internet industry, which wants
to regulate itself, and government, which is threatening to pass
consumer-protection laws.

"We want to be the first people to ask, 'Why doesn't government work with
business and work with consumers?'" said a source with TRUSTe.

The Federal Trade Commission has cracked down on the Internet industry for
what it claims is a failure to respect personal information relative to
consumers. In August, the commission punished GeoCities for allowing
personal customer information to fall into untrustworthy hands.

The FTC has given the industry until the end of this year to prove that
it's serious about protecting consumer privacy. If that doesn't happen, it
will recommend congress pass laws to do it for them.

A recent survey
[ http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/15428.html ] found that
more than 40 countries have enacted, or plan to enact, consumer
data-protection laws.

TRUSTe is leading the charge to stop the United States from doing the same
thing. The nonprofit industry group runs a program that awards a TRUSTe
seal to Web sites that respect and preserve individual privacy.

"The average citizen... [has] no idea they can't participate in self
regulation," said the TRUSTe source. "If we don't do these things, then
government will fail and self-regulation will fail.

"In the privacy arena, what is really critical is that this is all moving
really fast. The industry is collecting data faster than anyone can stop
them. We want the government to put in the principles so that privacy
doesn't become for the information age what the environment was to the
industrial age."

One Web-privacy advocate agreed, but said that a consumer-education
campaign is a distraction that allows the big Internet companies to shirk
their responsibilities.

"Focusing on 'consumer education' is an attempt to shift responsibility
back on the victim, which makes little sense when those people have so
little technical and legal power to protect their own interests," said
Jason Catlett, president of JunkBusters.

"Detroit tried the same PR trick in the '60s, because telling people that
they should drive more carefully was cheaper than being required to
engineer safer cars and to take responsibility for the numbers of people
that were getting killed," Catlett said.

"How many more horror stories must we read before consumers will get more
than 'You should have chosen better companies' for an answer?"

Last week, the accounting firm of Ernst & Young told Wired News that it had
signed on as a TRUSTe sponsor, and plans to work closely with the group to
establish an e-commerce assurance program.

Copyright (c) 1994-98 Wired Digital Inc.

--------------------------------NOTICE:------------------------------
ISPI Clips are news & opinion articles on privacy issues from
all points of view; they are clipped from local, national and international
newspapers, journals and magazines, etc. Inclusion as an ISPI Clip
does not necessarily reflect an endorsement of the content or opinion
by ISPI. In compliance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed free without profit or payment for non-profit research
and educational purposes only.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

ISPI Clips is a FREE e-mail service from the "Institute for the Study
of Privacy Issues" (ISPI). To receive "ISPI Clips" on a regular bases
(up to 3 - 8 clips per day) send the following message  "Please
enter [Your Name] into the ISPI Clips list: [Your e-mail address]" to:
ISPIClips@ama-gi.com  .

The Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) is a small
contributor-funded organization based in Victoria, British Columbia
(Canada). ISPI operates on a not-for-profit basis, accepts no
government funding and takes a global perspective.

ISPI's mandate is to conduct & promote interdisciplinary research
into electronic, personal and  financial privacy with a view toward
helping ordinary people understand the degree of privacy they have
with respect to government, industry and each other and to likewise
inform them about techniques to enhance their privacy.

But, none of this can be accomplished without your kind and
generous financial support. If you value in the ISPI Clips service or if
you are concerned about the erosion of your privacy in general, won't
you please help us continue this important work by becoming an "ISPI
Clips Supporter" or by taking out an institute Membership?

We gratefully accept all contributions:

  Less than $60    ISPI Clips Supporter
          $60 - $99    Primary ISPI Membership (1 year)
      $100 - $300    Senior ISPI Membership (2 years)
More than $300    Executive Council Membership (life)

Your ISPI "membership" contribution entitles you to receive "The ISPI
Privacy Reporter" (our bi-monthly 12 page hard-copy newsletter in
multi-contributor format) for the duration of your membership.

For a contribution form with postal instructions please send the following
message "ISPI Contribution Form" to ISPI4Privacy@ama-gi.com .

We maintain a strict privacy policy. Any information you divulge to ISPI
is kept in strict confidence. It will not be sold, lent or given away to
any third party.










**********************************************
To subscribe or unsubscribe, email:
     majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com
with the message:
     (un)subscribe ignition-point email@address
**********************************************
www.telepath.com/believer
**********************************************




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 05:50:20 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.26: Coalition Announces Intiative for Online Privacy
Message-ID: <199810082123.OAA29179@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: "ama-gi ISPI" 
Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.26: Coalition Announces Intiative for Online Privacy
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 00:32:02 -0700
To: 

ISPI Clips 5.26: Coalition Announces Initiative for Online Privacy
News & Info from the Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI)
Thursday October 8, 1998
ISPI4Privacy@ama-gi.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This From: The New York Times (Cybertimes), October 7, 1998
http://www.nytimes.com

Coalition Announces Initiative for Online Privacy
http://www.nytimes.com/library/tech/98/10/cyber/articles/07privacy.html

By
JERI CLAUSING, jeri@nytimes.com

ASHINGTON -- A coalition of major Internet companies on Wednesday unveiled
a sweeping online advertising campaign to teach consumers and Web sites
operators how to protect personal privacy on the Internet.

The initiative, which is being launched with the equivalent of $4 million
in Internet advertising banner commitments, was described as a huge
grassroots consumer education program that is expected to reach 9 of every
10 Internet users.

Called the Privacy Partnership [ http://www.truste.org/partners/ ], the
campaign was started by TrustE [ http://www.truste.org/ ], an independent,
nonprofit organization dedicated to building trust in the Internet, and
eight major Internet gateways, including America Online, Yahoo!, Excite,
Infoseek, Lycos, Microsoft, Netscape and Snap.

A number of other companies have since joined, and any Web site operator
can download a banner ad that has links to a privacy Web site.

"The Internet is medium for communications and commerce, but users' anxiety
and uncertainty about sharing personal information are preventing people
from taking advantage of the Internet's full potential, " said Susan Scott,
executive director of TrustE."

The announcement comes at a time when companies are working to prove to
federal lawmakers and regulators that they can establish an effective a
voluntary framework to control the use of personal information collected
online. Many of the companies involved in the new partnership are also
members of the Online Privacy Alliance, which has drafted guidelines
http://www.privacyalliance.org/ ] and an enforcement plan for companies to
follow when collecting personal information from consumers on the Internet.

The Clinton Administration, which has taken a hands-off approach to
Internet regulation, supports self-regulation of privacy policies. But the
Federal Trade Commission, which earlier this year released a survey of that
painted a dismal picture of the state of privacy protections online, has
recommended that Congress pass a bill to protect children from online
marketers, and that protections be extended to all consumers if
self-regulation has not made significant progress by January.

On Tuesday, groups pushing for strong privacy laws released a study showing
that nearly all industrialized countries have either adopted or are in the
process of adopting comprehensive privacy laws. The report by the Global
Internet Liberty Campaign, an international coalition of civil rights
groups [ http://www.gilc.org/ ], found that countries are adopting these
laws in many cases to address past governmental abuses, such as in former
Eastern Bloc countries; to promote electronic commerce, or to ensure
compatibility with international standards developed by the European Union,
the Council of Europe, and the Organization for Economic Cooperation and
Development.

"This report shows that there is substantial international support for
privacy protection," said David Banisar, policy director of the Electronic
Privacy Information Center in Washington, D.C., and one of the authors of
the report.

His co-author, Simon Davies, director general of Privacy International,
said, "The United States risks isolating itself from worldwide electronic
commerce with its opposition to adequate and enforceable privacy rights."

On Oct. 25, an European Union directive takes effect that is expected to
toughen national laws of 15 European governments whose privacy standards
are already more stringent than those of the United. The European laws
require that corporations get people's permission before collecting
demographic or marketing information about them. Without strong national
standards in the United States, Banisar said many companies may find
themselves unable to engage in electronic commerce in Europe.

Clinton Administration officials, however, have for months been working
with the European Union trying to convince European officials that the
standards voluntarily being enacted by American companies are sufficient.
And President Clinton's top Internet adviser, Ira C. Magaziner, insists
current efforts by industry will be acceptable.

"Things are moving along well now with self-regulation," Magaziner said
Tuesday. "We still need to see fully implemented results, but I think those
who advocate legislation assume that just as soon as you pass a law
everything is fine. Laws still have to be implemented and enforced. And we
question the effectiveness of enforcement of some of those laws. If
self-regulation works as we are hoping and expect, it will still be the
most effective way."

The Privacy Partnership advertising blitz begins Oct. 12 and will run
through Oct. 31. The campaign will use banner ads with links to a welcome
message from the Privacy Partnership. That message has two links. One takes
people to a TrustE site with information about how consumers can protect
their privacy online. The other will allow Web site operators to join the
Privacy Partnership by downloading the campaign's banner ads. It will also
provide Web site operators with more information on privacy principles and
tools to generate a privacy statement.

"For trust to be engendered on the Internet, companies must clearly state
what personal information they are collecting, how the information will be
used, and the choices available to the individual regarding the collection,
use and distribution of that information," Scott said.

"If we can alleviate consumer anxiety about what happens to their data.
Then everybody will do well."

Copyright 1998 The New York Times Company

--------------------------------NOTICE:------------------------------
ISPI Clips are news & opinion articles on privacy issues from
all points of view; they are clipped from local, national and international
newspapers, journals and magazines, etc. Inclusion as an ISPI Clip
does not necessarily reflect an endorsement of the content or opinion
by ISPI. In compliance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed free without profit or payment for non-profit research
and educational purposes only.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

ISPI Clips is a FREE e-mail service from the "Institute for the Study
of Privacy Issues" (ISPI). To receive "ISPI Clips" on a regular bases
(up to 3 - 8 clips per day) send the following message  "Please
enter [Your Name] into the ISPI Clips list: [Your e-mail address]" to:
ISPIClips@ama-gi.com  .

The Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) is a small
contributor-funded organization based in Victoria, British Columbia
(Canada). ISPI operates on a not-for-profit basis, accepts no
government funding and takes a global perspective.

ISPI's mandate is to conduct & promote interdisciplinary research
into electronic, personal and  financial privacy with a view toward
helping ordinary people understand the degree of privacy they have
with respect to government, industry and each other and to likewise
inform them about techniques to enhance their privacy.

But, none of this can be accomplished without your kind and
generous financial support. If you value in the ISPI Clips service or if
you are concerned about the erosion of your privacy in general, won't
you please help us continue this important work by becoming an "ISPI
Clips Supporter" or by taking out an institute Membership?

We gratefully accept all contributions:

  Less than $60    ISPI Clips Supporter
          $60 - $99    Primary ISPI Membership (1 year)
      $100 - $300    Senior ISPI Membership (2 years)
More than $300    Executive Council Membership (life)

Your ISPI "membership" contribution entitles you to receive "The ISPI
Privacy Reporter" (our bi-monthly 12 page hard-copy newsletter in
multi-contributor format) for the duration of your membership.

For a contribution form with postal instructions please send the following
message "ISPI Contribution Form" to ISPI4Privacy@ama-gi.com .

We maintain a strict privacy policy. Any information you divulge to ISPI
is kept in strict confidence. It will not be sold, lent or given away to
any third party.










**********************************************
To subscribe or unsubscribe, email:
     majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com
with the message:
     (un)subscribe ignition-point email@address
**********************************************
www.telepath.com/believer
**********************************************




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 05:47:59 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: House Passes Roving Wiretaps, Expanding Federal Surveillance Powers
Message-ID: <199810082123.OAA29190@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: House Passes Roving Wiretaps, Expanding Federal Surveillance Powers
Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 09:06:44 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  Center for Democracy and Technology
http://www.cdt.org/legislation/calea/roving.html

House Passes Roving Wiretaps, Expanding Federal Surveillance Powers 

 October 7, 1998 

In a closed-door manuever, controversial "roving wiretap" provisions have
been added to a major Intelligence authorization bill and passed by the
House. Current wiretapping law allows tapping of a particular person's
phones. The new provisions would dramatically expand current authority by
allowing taps on any phone used by, or "proximate" to, the person being
tapped +IBQ- no matter whose phone it is. Such a broad law invites abuse. 

In the last Congress, the full House of Representatives rejected these
provisions after an open and vigorous debate. This week, behind closed
doors, a conference committee added the provisions to the important
Intelligence Authorization Conference Report, almost certain to pass the
Congress. The provisions were not in either the original House or Senate
versions of the bill. CDT is particularly concerned that such an expansion
of federal authority should take place without a public debate. 


"Roving Wiretaps" Language added to H.R. 3694, the Intelligence
Authorization Conference Report. 

SEC. 604. WIRE AND ELECTRONIC COMMUNICATIONS INTERCEPTION REQUIREMENTS. 

(a) In General.  Section 2518(11)(b) of title 18, United States Code, is
amended - 

(1) in clause (ii), by striking ``of a purpose'' and all that follows
through the end 
of such clause and inserting ``that there is probable cause to believe that
the 
person's actions could have the effect of thwarting interception from a
specified 
facility;''; 

(2) in clause (iii), by striking ``such purpose'' and all that follows
through the end 
of such clause and inserting ``such showing has been adequately made;
and''; and 

(3) by adding at the end the following clause: 

``(iv) the order authorizing or approving the interception is limited to 
interception only for such time as it is reasonable to presume that the
person 
identified in the application is or was reasonably proximate to the
instrument 
through which such communication will be or was transmitted.''. 

(b) Conforming Amendments.Section 2518(12) of title 18, United States Code,
is 
amended - 

(1) by inserting ``(a)'' after ``by reason of subsection (11)''; 

(2) by striking ``the facilities from which, or''; and 

(3) by striking the comma following ``where''. 

 Other CALEA Issues 

The Center For Democracy And Technology 
1634 Eye Street NW, Suite 1100 
 Washington, DC 20006 
 (v) .202.637.9800 (f) .202.637.0968 
info@cdt.org 
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




**********************************************
To subscribe or unsubscribe, email:
     majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com
with the message:
     (un)subscribe ignition-point email@address
**********************************************
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**********************************************




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 05:50:46 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Cashless CompuBank Launches Today Nationwide
Message-ID: <199810082123.OAA29202@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Cashless CompuBank Launches Today Nationwide
Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 09:13:01 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

VIRTUAL BANK

CompuBank, the first virtual US bank to receive a charter from the Office
of the Comptroller of the Currency and approval from the Federal Deposit
Insurance Corporation, launches today in all US states. It has no physical
branches. As well as the usual bank services, features include real-time
access to accounts 24 hours a day, viewable transaction history for the
last year, and online wire transfers. See http://www.compubank.com  

-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




**********************************************
To subscribe or unsubscribe, email:
     majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com
with the message:
     (un)subscribe ignition-point email@address
**********************************************
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**********************************************




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 05:47:44 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Neural Computer to Rival Brain???
Message-ID: <199810082123.OAA29218@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Neural Computer to Rival Brain???
Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 09:15:57 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  The Economist
http://www.economist.com/editorial/freeforall/current/index_st4636.html

SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY 

Semiconductors - Silicon smarts 

BRAINS and computers are very different things.
Brains consist of a trillion or so tiny elements, called
neurons, which are individually dumb but collectively,
thanks to the thousand trillion connections between
them, very powerful. Most computers, on the other
hand, depend on a single, complex component-a
microprocessor-to get things done. Even the most
advanced supercomputers, with hundreds or even
thousands of connected microprocessors, cannot
match the compactness or connection density of the
human brain. 

Two new chip-making techniques being developed at
Irvine Sensors Corporation (ISC) in Costa Mesa,
California, could be significant steps in the
long-running effort to make more brain-like
computers. Researchers at ISC have found a way to
pack silicon chips extremely tightly together and,
better still, to make large numbers of connections
between them. 

Their technique layers silicon chips on top of each
other, cramming 50 chips into the space normally
occupied by just one. This is done by grinding away
the underside of the silicon wafer on which the chip
circuitry is built-a thick, non-functional platform that
can be removed without affecting the chip's
operation. The result is a paper-thin but fully
functional chip, which can be stacked and bonded
with other chips to form a single unit. The chips are
wired together via connectors along their edges, and
the whole sandwich is embedded in epoxy resin. 

This space-saving technique is already being used
commercially in a four-layer memory chip that packs
128 megabits of data into an amazingly small
one-centimetre-square package. Earlier this year, ISC
won a $1.3m military contract from Boeing to build a
wearable, voice-activated computer the size of a
pack of cards. 

But while such stacking wizardry means computers
can be smaller, it does not make them more
brain-like. At present, the nearest approximation to a
silicon brain involves making electronic circuits that
behave like neurons, and connecting them up in small
networks. Such "artificial neural networks" can be
used for everything from image recognition to credit
scoring, but their size and complexity-and so their
deductive power-is limited. 

This is because it is only possible to fit a certain
number of silicon neurons on to a single chip; and
there is a limit to the number of connections that can
be made between adjacent neural chips. Researchers
would like to be able to build networks that are
larger and more densely connected-in short, more
brain-like. ISC's second technology should let them
do this, by allowing direct vertical connections to be
made anywhere on the adjoining surfaces of adjacent
chips in a stack. 

To achieve this, half of a special component called a
three-dimensional field-effect transistor, or 3DFET, is
constructed at the site of each connection, as part of
the usual chip-making process. When the chips are
stacked, the two halves of each 3DFET fit together,
allowing signals to pass up and down from one chip
to the other. A prototype 3DFET, developed with
financing from the US army's ballistic missile defence
organisation, has already been made and tested. With
new funding, ISC hopes to make a chip-stack
connected using 3DFETs within 18 months. 

After that, says ISC's chief technical officer, John
Carson, the long-term goal is to stack 1,000 neural
chips in a single cube. This would involve thinning
each chip down to less than the thickness of a human
hair. Already, ISC has produced a prototype that is
almost this thin. 

If ISC can squeeze a million silicon neurons on to each
chip, and pack a thousand chips into a one-inch
neural cube, the arithmetic starts to get interesting. A
thousand such cubes, which could fit in a shoebox,
would contain a trillion neurons, and a hundred trillion
connections. That would still not match the
connectivity of human grey matter. But it would be
the most brain-like computer ever made. 
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 05:47:31 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Borderless World Talks, E-commerce
Message-ID: <199810082123.OAA29230@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Borderless World Talks, E-commerce
Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 09:19:12 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

--------------------
NOTE:  You will have to go to the website referenced below to read this
article.  Half of the page is the article in English, the other half in
French.
--------------------

  BORDERLESS WORLD TALKS

     The Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development is holding a
Borderless World ministerial conference in Ottawa this week, in which reps
of the 29 member countries discuss various Internet and e-commerce issues,
especially regulation, taxation and privacy. See
http://www.oecd.org/dsti/sti/it/ec/news/ottawa.htm  

-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 05:55:04 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: White House Accused of Data Theft
Message-ID: <199810082124.OAA29249@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: White House Accused of Data Theft
Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 10:12:25 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  Washington Post
http://search.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WAPO/19981007/V000584-100798-idx.html

White House Accused of Data Theft 

By John Solomon
Associated Press Writer
Wednesday, October 7, 1998; 7:42 p.m. EDT

WASHINGTON (AP) -- A Republican-led House subcommittee
accused President Clinton and the White House of ``theft of government
property'' Wednesday in transferring data to the Democratic Party for
fund-raising purposes. 

Seeking to gain the attention of impeachment investigators, a stinging
report written by Republican congressional staffers detailed evidence they
contend conflicts with some of the White House's earlier assertions about
the use of a $1.7 million taxpayer-financed database created inside the
executive mansion. 

``The committee issues this report to expose the evidence of the
president's possible involvement in the theft of government property and
his abuse of power,'' said the report by the investigative subcommittee of
the House Government Reform and Oversight Committee. 

The report cites testimony from top Democratic fund-raisers who
acknowledged they got names and addresses from the White House
database on a regular basis and used them to solicit donations or plan
White House events for donors. 

``Richard Sullivan, the DNC finance director, himself testified that he
obtained lists of attendance at White House CEO lunches and the White
House Economic Conference and that he used those lists to raise money,''
the report states. 

Originally, presidential aides insisted White House staff and the database
were used only for official purposes and none of it was misused for fund
raising. Federal law prohibits the use of government resources for fund
raising or other political or private purposes. Those who misuse such
resources can be charged with stealing government resources. 

White House officials said Wednesday the DNC was only authorized to
use its data for invitation lists, and if information was used for anything
else
that was inappropriate. 

``This White House, like the Bush and Reagan White House, keeps
names and addresses of our supporters, and tries to ensure that they are
included in White House events,'' spokesman Barry Toiv said. 

Toiv charged the subcommittee report was ``irresponsible and deceptive
and highly partisan'' and excluded ``information that contradicts'' its
allegations. 

The report directly accused Clinton of knowing about and instigating the
misuse of federal resources for political purposes. 

Among the examples it cited were internal White House documents
indicating that the president instructed that information he obtained from
official White House e-mail or other sources be sent to his political
campaign. 

``Quite frequently the president will ask that certain names and addresses
be added to the supporter file. ... Attached is a list of supporter file
information,'' a 1994 White House memo said, asking that the information
be forwarded to a separate campaign database Clinton instructed be built
in Arkansas. 

White House officials said there was nothing wrong with Clinton
forwarding to his campaign, for example, business cards he had received
at the White House and said there was no evidence he sent wholesale
portions of government data. 

The report also cites a document showing Clinton authorized a job
description for a top aide, Marsha Scott, that included a responsibility for
``insuring ... supporters were involved in fund-raising activities'' such
as the
controversial White House coffees. 

Presidential aides defended Scott's job description, noting political
appointees aren't forbidden by law from doing political work provided
they don't solicit donations. 

The subcommittee also referred White House deputy counsel Cheryl Mills
to the Justice Department for criminal investigation, alleging that in 1996
she located two subpoenaed documents suggesting that Clinton and his
wife, Hillary, sanctioned the use of the White House database for political
purposes but withheld them from the committee for months -- until after
the 1996 election. It also accused her of lying about aspects of the
database to the committee. 

Ms. Mills has said she did not believe the documents were responsive to
the subpoena when she first reviewed them and sought the advice of her
superiors who agreed. She denies any effort to mislead investigators. And
the top Democrat on the Government Reform committee wrote the Justice
Department saying he disagreed with the GOP referral, saying Ms. Mills
may have made a mistake but there was no evidence of willful obstruction.

The release of the report is part of a broader effort by Republicans in
Congress to make public information that they think should be considered
in the impeachment inquiry the House is set to approve Thursday. 

Rep. David McIntosh, R-Ind., said Wednesday it was ``premature'' to
predict whether his findings would be incorporated into the House
Judiciary Committee's impeachment investigation on the president's
relationship with Monica Lewinsky. 

``This isn't about sex. This is about abusing his official privilege for
personal and political gain,'' McIntosh said. 

The inquiry into the database, which contained the names of individuals
who have contact with the White House or president, has been conducted
over the last two years without the same fanfare of higher profile
investigations of Ms. Lewinsky, Whitewater, FBI files and the White
House travel office firings. 

Nonetheless, the investigators said they found White House documents
with official government data -- including holiday card lists -- at the DNC
and the Clinton campaign. White House officials said some of the list were
accidentally sent by vendors. 

 (c) Copyright 1998 The Associated Press
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 03:28:07 +0800
To: vince@offshore.com.ai
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Here come the rafting iguanas]
In-Reply-To: <361D269A.3494@avana.net>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 4:51 PM -0400 on 10/8/98, David Miller wrote:

> Could the term "green iguanas" be symbolic of US currency?

Naw... But I hereby nominate the green iguana to be the official mascot of
the cypherpunk crypto-refugee community on Anguilla.

I can see it on the "alternative" FC99 shirt now. A bunch of iguanas, (at
least one in black BDUs :-)), on a raft of (tamper resistant)
cryptoaccellerator and DES-cracker parts, styrofoam, and Stronghold and Red
Hat boxes, all with a silhouette of Anguilla looming in the background.
Maybe with Jerry Gumbs standing on the beach holding a "God Save the Queen"
sign?

But wait, there's more.  How about the Anguillan flag, with *iguanas*
replacing the dolphins...


Can you tell the equinox is over?

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 04:07:20 +0800
To: "William H. Geiger III" 
Subject: Re: Another potential flaw in current economic theory... (fwd)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 6:19 PM -0500 10/6/98, William H. Geiger III wrote:
>>At 2:35 PM -0500 10/6/98, Steve Mynott wrote:
>>>any true cypherpunk must be a libertarian..
>>	Libertarians are just cowardly anarchists, they lack the courage of
>>their convictions to take the last step and eliminate government
>>altogether.
>Libertarians are well aware of the need for government, they are also

	Libertarians are afraid of getting rid of their saftey nets.

>aware of the dangers to personal freedom that governments represent. The
>goal of the Libertarians is to provide a system that minimizes government
>and maximizes personal freedom. In the US this system takes the form of a

	The creation of government is incompatible with concept of freedom,
it is like a doctor saying that he/she will introduce "a little cancer" to
help cure you of something.

	Like radiation or chemotherapy it works for a short time, but
causes the very problems it set out to solve in the long run.

	As our current state would show, freedoms are not always lost in
one big election, nor in one gigantic battle, but like a mountain is
reduced to a plain, one drop of water, one soft gust of wind at a time.

>Constitutionally limited government (ie: the US Constitution interpreted
>as a limiting document not an enabling one).

	What prevents it from changing contexts?

	Nothing.

	The current constitution was voided by the Civil War/War of
Northern Aggression, and we haven't had a government that was willing to
restrict it's activities to its prescribed borders since then (if we even
did before then, I seem to remember A. Jackson explicitly ignoring a
supreme court ruling that lead to thousands of deaths).

	Your system depends on strong minded, enlightened people willing to
work together and not look to someone else to solve their problems.

	With those kind of people any system will work, and so would anarchy.

	Without those kind of people, no system will work for long
(especially without degenerating into a tyranny of some kind).

>Anarchism does not work. It is a pipe dream much like Communism that only
>leads to Totalitarianism.

	It works every day anywhere anyone has the capability to make a
choice, and does so without consulting their local branch of the Mob.
--
"To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a
jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a
gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather naďve, and certainly
unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust"
http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html

Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent.
Inc.::petro@playboy.com::petro@bounty.org




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 04:04:42 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810081944.OAA19796@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 14:15:12 -0500
> From: Petro 
> Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)

> >> Umm...  both of those are around because the governemtn made the cost of
> >> delivering both alcohol and drugs prohibitively high,
> >
> >That's inaccurate. The Mafia pre-dated the US by several hundred years if
> 
> 	So what? There was probably a government wherever the started, and
> they probably started out providing services that their local government
> prohibited.

This begs the question, even when presented with evidence that supports such
assertions you dismiss it out of hand.

No point in even responding to your posts on this topic any further.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 04:12:20 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Forwarded mail...
Message-ID: <199810081945.OAA19853@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 21:21:32 +0200
> From: Anonymous 

> 
> HOW MUCH CODE DID 'CYPHERPUNK' TIM MAY EVER WRITE?
> 

How much have YOU written (as if anyone really cares)?


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Shostack 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 03:19:42 +0800
To: Cypherpunks Mailing List 
Subject: Anguilla in the news
Message-ID: <19981008144720.A11974@weathership.homeport.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



http://www.nytimes.com/yr/mo/day/news/national/science/sci-lizard-raft.html

Adam

-- 
"It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once."
					               -Hume





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Hohensee 
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 23:11:15 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!... (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199810080256.VAA15750@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <361CD086.CD3EB6F@is9.nyu.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate wrote:
> 
> Forwarded message:
> 
> > Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 22:08:08 -0400 (EDT)
> > From: Ryan Anderson 
> > Subject: Re: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!... (fwd)
> 
> > > Consider the difference in volume of these two waste products...
> >
> >
> > Really?  The amount of fuel that goes into a nuclear plant is farirly low,
> > compared to the amount shoved into a coal plant.
> 
> Exactly my point.
> 
> A 1000MW coal plant produces approx 300,000 tons of waste product per year.
> A nuclear plan produces .5. This means the concentration of the chemicals in
> the coal plant are much lower by many orders of magnitude than the nuclear,
> hence making the nuclear waste more toxic by a great deal.
> 

The latter does not necessarily follow from the former.  Consider the
example of natural gas and gasoline.  You don't get to conclude your
argument that easily! :)

Michael Hohensee




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 22:29:53 +0800
To: fod@brd.ie
Subject: Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code)
In-Reply-To: <361CAC40.5BBDD268@brd.ie>
Message-ID: <199810081350.OAA11882@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Mr Johnny Come Lately writes:
> Having said that I do question whether take-up of free crypto components
> by commercial companies genuinely results in "strong cryptographic
> products". I'm not meaning to denigrate Eric's work in any way, but in
> my experience the likes of SSLeay is very often shovelled into products
> by companies who don't understand crypto, don't understand SSL, and
> barely understand SSLeay. Even those who do understand what they are
> doing are typically working "on Internet time". Certainly merely linking
> to SSLeay does NOT result in a "strong cryptographic product", not by
> any stretch of the imagination.

Let me clue you in here: you are talking to the Caped Green one, who
currently is working for C2Net, which just happens to be selling
Stronghold, a commercial version of Apache, which is the most widely
used secure web server in the world.  Guess what: Apache uses SSLeay,
and Stronghold also inherits this.

I would also rate the folks at C2Net as pretty crypto clueful, btw.
2nd hint: C2Net is currently employing Eric Young also, and Eric's
SSLeay still has the same license.

> > The bottom line is that GNU-licensing is more restrictive than
> > BSD/SSLeay-style licensing. Hence identical freeware will see less
> > deployment under GNU than under BSD.
> >
> > Cyphpunks believe that more strong crypto is better.
> 
> Well then, "Cypherpunks write code". Wide deployment of crypto
> components in closed-source programs (especially by cluebags) is neither
> necessary nor sufficient to achieve "more strong crypto" in the sense
> that Cypherpunks mean it, in my opinion. (Yes, it's better than nothing,
> but not much better.)

What sense do cypherpunks mean strong crypto in then?  Perhaps you
could educate us?

They mean lots of crypto out there firstly, so that the when the
government tries the next GAK initiative the government has less
chance of pushing it through, as more people know what crypto is, and
understand how outrageous mandatory domestic GAK is.  Secondly they
mean strong crypto, as in full key strengths, and no flaws.  But
mainly their interest in deploying strong crypto by whatever means
available (commercial, freeware, or whatever) for a purpose: to
undermine the power of the state, to allow people to go about the
business unhindered by the state.

Cypherpunks also get involved in breaking crypto, and this is usually
enough to get massively commercially deployed strong crypto with
unintentional flaws converted quickly into massively deployed crypto
without the flaws.  eg. Netscape's random number generator weakness,
which netscape fixed immediately.

> > The conclusion in the GNU vs. BSD/SSLeay/etc. license debate
> > should be clear.
> 
> Well, it clearly isn't, as evidenced by the large number of fairly
> bright people arguing about it. :)

It's clear to pretty much all the cypherpunks I've seen contribute to
the thread, Eric, Perry, Adam Shostack, Jim McCoy, Bruce Schneier.
Probably there were some others who contributed to the thread also.

You don't get it, but then have you ever written any crypto code with
the objective of undermining the power of the state?  Is this your aim
in writing your open source application code that you name dropped?

This is what I meant by my short rant about coderpunks detracting from
the cypherpunk objective: siphons off 'punks from cypherpunks into a
crypto-politically neutral environment.  Then it gets increasingly
more crypto-politically neutral subscribers, and anyone reminding or
commenting that the original aim of the game was to distribute strong
crypto to undermine the state, gets told by the local retro moderators
that political stuff isn't welcome.

Try reading the cyphernomicon (*), if you haven't.

Adam
	(*) http://www.oberlin.edu/~brchkind/cyphernomicon/




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 04:10:04 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Another potential flaw in current economic theory... (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810081951.OAA20049@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 14:35:41 -0500
> From: Petro 
> Subject: Re: Another potential flaw in current economic theory... (fwd)

> >aware of the dangers to personal freedom that governments represent. The
> >goal of the Libertarians is to provide a system that minimizes government
> >and maximizes personal freedom. In the US this system takes the form of a
> 
> 	The creation of government is incompatible with concept of freedom,

Then freedom is incompatible with human psychology. People are social
animals and will build social institutions (ie government), it's in their
genes.

> it is like a doctor saying that he/she will introduce "a little cancer" to
> help cure you of something.

The point is to create a market with 'fair competition', something that
won't occur naturaly because of a variety of reasons. 

If you'd like to see some of them then refer to:

Inidividualism and Economic Order
FA Hayek
ISBN 0-226-32093-6
Individualism: true and false, Section 7 (pp. 45 in my copy)


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 04:22:19 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Something else about 'freedom'...
Message-ID: <199810081956.OAA20142@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



It doesn't mean the creation of a social or economic state (or lack of one)
that promotes the abuse or belittlement of others 'freedoms'.

I'd still like to see an explanation of how anarcho-capitalist or free-market
promoters expect this to be resolved.

My suspicion is that this sort of opportunity is *exactly* what they want.
Then *they* get to be the ones using force for coercive ends.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jukka E Isosaari 
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 21:10:11 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Crypto AG: The NSA's Trojan Whore?
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



http://caq.com/cryptogate

Are people familiar with this document?

Why shouldn't NSA have implanted this kind of back-doors
in various software and operating systems as well?

It seems to have worked so very well in the past.

++ J





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 05:26:47 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!... (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810082107.QAA20666@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 19:58:31 +0000
> From: Michael Hohensee 
> Subject: Re: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!... (fwd)

> > What specificaly is there about the relationship between natural gas and
> > gasoline that leads you to believe that the comparison of lethality between
> > the waste products of a coal plant vurses a nuclear plant is such that the
> > waste of a nuclear plant is more lethal because there is more toxic
> > byproduct and it is in higher concentrations?
> 
> Absolutely nothing.  That's my point, not yours --or at least not the
> point you made in your previous post.


It is *exactly* the point I have made from day 1.

If you believe otherwise the mistake is yours.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 07:30:52 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Something else about 'freedom'...
Message-ID: <361D45C4.18C8@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



***
My suspicion is that this sort of opportunity is *exactly* what they
want. Then *they* get to be the ones using force for coercive ends.
***
Isn't this the "kill the unbelievers" scenario? Old and revered
behavior. Tribal. Elemental.

I don't think 'freedom' means 'anarchy.' 
Nor does 'anarchy' necessarily mean 'violent lawlessness.' 
And 'rule of law' does not mean 'safety and security.' 

As strong as the need for order is, so is the need for chaos. Remove
either and we lose. 

I think freedom comes from order and knowing what to do with that
freedom comes from chaos. 

No worries, no thoughts or you can't really enjoy an evening martini if
you drink forty-two of them.

Mike




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 07:41:54 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A193A7A31@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




The Mafia has had two primary characteristics:

a) the use of force
b) trade in elicit and prohibited goods and services

Unless you can claim a reference to a Mafia at some time and place that
had neither characteristics and a market which they monopolized which
lacked any other intervention, then this all is utterly irrelevant to
the discussion at hand.

	Matt

> -----Original Message-----

> > >That's inaccurate. The Mafia pre-dated the US by several 
> hundred years if




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 04:58:50 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: The Cypherpunks Agenda
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



One is reminded of a quote (I'm still looking for the exact version) by
Washington Roebling, the chief engineer of the Brooklyn Bridge, when,
invalid from decompression sickness, his management of the works from his
bedroom window was called into question.

Something about how a single man, in a single afternoon, could plan a
year's work for thousands.

;-).

The cost of anything is the foregone alternative; if we lived here, we'd be
home now; et cetera.

Cypherpunks sit in their barcoloungers (or cubicles) and mosh. :-).

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Frank O'Dwyer" 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 00:39:32 +0800
To: Adam Back 
Subject: Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code)
In-Reply-To: <199810081350.OAA11882@server.eternity.org>
Message-ID: <361CE49F.C858A2CE@brd.ie>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Adam Back wrote: 
> Mr Johnny Come Lately writes:

Adam, in future please spare me your warrantless insults. Thanks.

> > Having said that I do question whether take-up of free crypto components
> > by commercial companies genuinely results in "strong cryptographic
> > products". I'm not meaning to denigrate Eric's work in any way, but in
> > my experience the likes of SSLeay is very often shovelled into products
> > by companies who don't understand crypto, don't understand SSL, and
> > barely understand SSLeay. Even those who do understand what they are
> > doing are typically working "on Internet time". Certainly merely linking
> > to SSLeay does NOT result in a "strong cryptographic product", not by
> > any stretch of the imagination.
> 
> Let me clue you in here: you are talking to the Caped Green one, who
> currently is working for C2Net, which just happens to be selling
> Stronghold, a commercial version of Apache, which is the most widely
> used secure web server in the world.  Guess what: Apache uses SSLeay,
> and Stronghold also inherits this.

I'm familiar with C2Net. If Stronghold is any good, that is because
C2net and/or the Apache team know what they are doing, not just because
they picked up a free SSL library on the net. It's easy to build
insecure products on good crypto, and many other companies are busy
doing just that. In fact, it's funny that you tout a "secure web server"
as "strong crypto" since in that context SSL is usually vulnerable to
being end-run by web spoofing. Oops. Oh well, it uses strong crypto, so
it must be good.

> > > The bottom line is that GNU-licensing is more restrictive than
> > > BSD/SSLeay-style licensing. Hence identical freeware will see less
> > > deployment under GNU than under BSD.
> > >
> > > Cyphpunks believe that more strong crypto is better.
> >
> > Well then, "Cypherpunks write code". Wide deployment of crypto
> > components in closed-source programs (especially by cluebags) is neither
> > necessary nor sufficient to achieve "more strong crypto" in the sense
> > that Cypherpunks mean it, in my opinion. (Yes, it's better than nothing,
> > but not much better.)
> 
> What sense do cypherpunks mean strong crypto in then?  Perhaps you
> could educate us?
> 
> They mean lots of crypto out there firstly, so that the when the
> government tries the next GAK initiative the government has less
> chance of pushing it through, as more people know what crypto is, and
> understand how outrageous mandatory domestic GAK is.  Secondly they
> mean strong crypto, as in full key strengths, and no flaws.  But
> mainly their interest in deploying strong crypto by whatever means
> available (commercial, freeware, or whatever) for a purpose: to
> undermine the power of the state, to allow people to go about the
> business unhindered by the state.

Then I guess you agree that closed-source deployment is neither
necessary nor sufficient to achieve "strong crypto". Not really sure why
you're arguing in that case.

> Cypherpunks also get involved in breaking crypto, and this is usually
> enough to get massively commercially deployed strong crypto with
> unintentional flaws converted quickly into massively deployed crypto
> without the flaws.  eg. Netscape's random number generator weakness,
> which netscape fixed immediately.

That's condescending and irrelevant. Did anyone ever fix web spoofing?

> > > The conclusion in the GNU vs. BSD/SSLeay/etc. license debate
> > > should be clear.
> >
> > Well, it clearly isn't, as evidenced by the large number of fairly
> > bright people arguing about it. :)
> 
> It's clear to pretty much all the cypherpunks I've seen contribute to
> the thread, Eric, Perry, Adam Shostack, Jim McCoy, Bruce Schneier.
> Probably there were some others who contributed to the thread also.
> 
> You don't get it, but then have you ever written any crypto code with
> the objective of undermining the power of the state?  Is this your aim
> in writing your open source application code that you name dropped?

Yes, and yes. (I don't think you understand the term "name dropped" btw.
But given the name-dropping and appeal-to-authority tone of your whole
post, I wonder if you understand the term "irony").

Cheers,
Frank O'Dwyer.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 06:52:54 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A193A7A28@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 6:28 PM -0500 10/6/98, Matthew James Gering wrote:
>Jim Choate wrote:
>> > The only problem is your statement that one can dominate
>> > "saturable" markets without some artificial "mechanism."
>> Who said anything about 'artificial'?
>I did. I state you cannot have a coercive monopoly without artificial
>barriers (and hence a free market cannot have a coercive monopoly) and
>you disagree. I am not sticking any terms where they don't go, you have
>consistently theorized monopolies can exist in a free market.

	He is right--to an extent. Monopolies _can_ exist in a free market
under 2 conditions:

	1) Early stages of a market, when the creator/initial entrant has a
lead on the competition. This will (without "government" intervention) end
at some point unless:

	B) a competitor emerges that manages to meet the entire markets
desires for goods and services in such a way that profits are so thin as to
not attract competion.

	(1) can be effectively ignored, it is a localized (in time)
condition that the market will usually remedy. It is (b) where the
questions come in.

	I have maintained that Monopolies in ANY market large enough to
accept competition (i.e. larger than one or two purchasers) cannot continue
to exist (in fact would have a hard time coming into existence) without
some sort of government influence. Jim maintains that this is not only
possible, but happens UNLESS the government steps in. Of course Jim has in
the cotext of this discussion defined monopoly as a number of
producers/distributers greater than 2 which are acting in alleged collusion
for certain lengths of time. This ignores the fact that like in _any_
system one must account for a certain latency in a market for corrections
to take place. It also ignores the fact that no two (especially not 5 or 6)
people can agree on anything for long. Look at OPEC, they have a "monopoly"
of sorts (for very loose definitions of monopoly), and they can't seem to
stay in agreement for more than a couple months.

>Perhaps you should re-read my statement and not assume negatives where I
>clearly did not write them.
>
>> talking a free-market, there are *only* two participants;
>
>That is a twisted and absolutely unjustified definition of a free
>market. A free market lacks forceful restriction or prohibition of free
>[consensual] trade.

	In a free market, having only 2 participants should be the
definition of a monopoly. Any more than that, and the monopoly would start
to degrade.

>EXCEPT that which violates individual rights. I will argue that an
>anarcho-capitalist market that treats force as a commodity is NOT a free
>market.

	Why not?

	As long as force is susuptible (mind went blank, can't spell it) to
capital, and can be bought and sold, then it becomes a part of the equation
just like an extremely efficient manufacturing process, the availablity of
cheap energy, or a lazy, bloated competitor.

>> > You will find that that is not possible without an
>> > artificial barrier to competition.
>>
>> Demonstrate please. The problem with this view is that it
>> implies that given sufficient time *any* market strategy
>> will fail. In other words there is no best or efficient
>> strategy for a given market.
>
>There is but ONE market strategy: to price at a point lower than new
>entrants could sustain their business, and constantly increase
>productive efficiency and reduce costs.

	No, there isn't. Sometimes you can put your price point higher than
the competition would necessarily come in with, and trade off reputation
capitol for the extra.

	Look at the atheltic shoe market, you have Nike, Rebok, and a
couple others. No, let's say I have a shoe that is demonstratably better
(by any margin) than the best shoe out there. I even have a marketing
funding to compete with Nike. Will I be able to out price them? No. Even if
I had a manufacturing process that let me produce a shoe that competeted
with Nikes $150 shoes for about .50c, I couldn't price them at that level.
I _could_ price them about $50, and grow.

	This is a bad example because there are a lot more variables in the
shoe market than in something very simple like electricity, or water.

>This works great in the short term, especially in emerging industries,
>but it is statistically improbable for a company to maintain perfection.
>The market is not static, it is always changing and technology often
>favors new entrants who are not encumbered with legacy technology.

	Then there isn't "one market strategy", strategies must change and
develop with times and products. There would be different strategies for
different products, and at different points in a products life cycle.

>It is less relevant that such a company is unlikely to maintain that
>position forever, but that such efficient dominance is good for the
>market. Productive efficiency raises the standard of living.

	Alcoa. So good no one felt the need to compete. A monopoly that
wasn't a problem.
--
"To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a
jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a
gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather naďve, and certainly
unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust"
http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html

Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent.
Inc.::petro@playboy.com::petro@bounty.org




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 05:57:14 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: does Web TV use forward secret cipher-suites? (Re: Web TV with 128b exported)
Message-ID: <199810082135.RAA22270@panix7.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



   >   From: Adam Back 
   >
   >   This is as others have noted cisco's doorbelling approach to GAK --
   >   having routers and automated systems doing decryption, and allowing
   >   LEA either direct access (possibly in this case), or access via
   >   complicit operators.
   >
   >   One question which might help determins just how bad this Web TV thing
   >   is, is does it use the forward secret ciphersuites.
   >
   >   If it did use FS ciphersuites, if the LEA starts reading traffic after
   >   some point (by asking the WebTV operators to do so, or by using a
   >   special LEA operator mode), he can't get all old traffic.
   >
   >   The EDH (ephemeral DH) modes are forward secret because a new DH key
   >   is generated for each session.
   >
   >   Some of the RSA modes are forward secret, but only on export grade RSA
   >   key sizes (512 bit).
   >
   >   As it got export permission, I fear the worst.  Perhaps even special
   >   LEA operator access.

Normally, an announcement of 128-bit crypto capabilities for a
home computer would mean the user has control of said crypto.

The WebTV computer:   http://developer.webtv.net/docs/sysgde/Default.htm

   o WebTV supports connectivity to the ISP of your choice.

   o Internet access (PPP, PAP)

   o HTML 1.0; HTML 2.0; HTML 3.2; frames compatibility; JavaScript 1.2

   o Image: GIF89a animation; JPEG; Progressive JPEG; PNG; TIFF-G3 fax in e-mail;
     X bitmap; Macromedia[tm] Flash 1.0

   o Audio: AU; . WAV; Real Audio 1.0; 2.0; 3.0; AIFF; Shockwave[tm] Audio; GSM;
     MPEG-1 Audio; MPEG-2 Audio; MPEG Layer 3; MOD; General MIDI; MIDI Karaoke;
     Quicktime audio; Zip decompression

   o Video: PEG-1 Video; MPEG-3 Video; VideoFlash[tm]

   o Processor: 112/167 Mhz R4640 processor

   o Security: SSL version 2 and 3; 40bit and 128bit RC4 encryption;
     root certificates for GTE, RSA Data Security (VeriSign), Thawte,
     and VeriSign Class 3 digital certificates

Can WebTV send end-to-end encrypted email to any other Net user?

Nope.

The press release claiming WebTV has 128-bit security
is another low in advertising obtuseness.
---guy




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 00:37:29 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: NT 5.0 and EFS -- A victory for widespread use of crypto?
Message-ID: <199810081610.SAA22577@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



geeman@best.com writes:
> 
> EFS is being deployed because They realized that with NTFS-readers
> available for other OSes besides NT there was no longer even the illusion
> of security offered by the NT architecture.

This is all true. However, the manner in which you state it sounds
very much like a deliberate attempt to trash Microsoft and NT.

The fact is that the identical arguments could be made toward any of
the standard Unix-like and all other popular operating systems. Linux,
*BSD, Solaris, HP-UX, AIX, et al.--even where the vendors have a 
`trusted' version--are all susceptible to the same attacks. Hence, by 
your reasoning, one would have to say that the architectures of every 
one of these operating systems do not offer `even the illusion of 
security'.

 - Frondeur




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 01:12:44 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199810081630.SAA23939@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Are there any web sites offering bounties for Americans, like the Americans
have for foreigners?  Or have their domain names been deregistered, their
spines pinched at the backbone, their WANs LAN'd?

Surely the well-funded jihads could do this.  And they haven't got
some law prohibiting assasination to hold them back.












  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 08:11:50 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810082352.SAA21802@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 17:21:26 -0500
> From: Petro 
> Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)

> 	He is right--to an extent. Monopolies _can_ exist in a free market
> under 2 conditions: 
> 	1) Early stages of a market, when the creator/initial entrant has a
> lead on the competition. This will (without "government" intervention) end
> at some point unless:

Actualy, without a copyright or some similar 3rd party regulatory
intervention this is one of the points in a market development when a
monopoly *can't* develop. At this stage of the game the entry cost is
minimal and many potential groups have access to the necessary commodities
(real and intellectual) to get into the business. This also happens to be
when violence has the highest pay-off in staying in the market.

It's the strategy of the business that determines if it can *stay* in the
market.

To put it in terms capable of modelling, consider a petri dish with various
bacteria arranged around it. To start, no colony of any particular type
(comparable to business strategy) controls the entire surface of the ager.
Only after the market matures and competition begins to reduce the number of
colonies and the area of the colonies increases do we begin to see a
monopolization effect. This is modelled quite simply with cellular
automatons.

At this point in time what happens in a real-world business is that somebody
gets a bright idea. He acts on that idea and starts a business. In order for
that business to grow and prosper at some point employees must be hired.
Those employees learn the business and some point one or more decide that
since there are more people wanting widgets than there are widgets being
made it looks like a good time to quit. That ex-employee starts up a
company. The original employer has no way to prevent this short of overt
violence, no laws or protective agents have been violated because there is
no 3rd party to act as guarantor to the employment contract or the
intellectual property rights. Now we have two companies making widgets.
These products are consumed and resupplied at a profit and both companies
(it is easy to extend this to n-parties so I'll stay with two for brevity)
continue to grow until market saturation. Now some folks will claim the
employer can impliment a limited access policy to the technology and product.
This strategy will not work. As another potential supplier I put out an add
asking for anybody who *used* to work in that industry to come by for a job.
I hire them, drain their brain, and impliment my competitors system. Once the
market saturates there isn't enough 'spare' money floating around to stay in
business, hence new businesses in that field don't start up unless another
fails unexpectedly; if its expected other competitors will begin bidding
economicaly for those potential new customers. The existing employers are
always trying to hire their competitors so there is a constant motivation to
defect from the employees perspective (ala computer industry).

Imagine the impact of these sorts of dynamics on banks and the issuance of
effective currencies and how that impacts travel and at-a-distance business
(such as across the big pond). Even such technologies as e$ won't solve this
problem because for one variety to have a chance at the market it must be
widely respected, implying a very large share of the market approaching
mono-e$ token saturation. So we create a monopoly in our rush to eliminate
monopolies via technology.

Monopolies are a function of doing business and not any political or
mathematics aspect. It's axiomatic in nature. Monopolies themselves,
something we haven't even touched on,  have both positive and negative
characteristics. These characteristics can in fact be described to a very
good degree of precision. Now if there were a mechanism to move a more
rational and experience based set of laws and regulations into business then
we might make some progress toward creating a society (due to moderated
market activity - by a *impartial* 3rd party) where investment in technology
and its application toward automation creates a situation where everyone
invests a sufficient amount of income to retire in a very small number of
years.

Another point to be made is at no time have I required these various
inter-active producers and consumers to be in lock step or have been created
at the same time. Nor do they, in principle or practice, have a requirement
for such things as instant market change propogation and rational
participants, etc. Those issues are irrelevant except early in human
history when these sorts of issues are intitialy introduced into a culture.
If people can't fulfill one desire, they'll fulfill another. The result is
that the same base set of human emotions and desires, expressed through a
cultures bias, that varies widely in content, context, and expression, will
in fact find a way to express the same basic sets. What most economists do
is vastly underestimate the range of that those individual members.

The major short-fall with anarchistic or free-market models is that they
have faulty comprehension of a workable concept of a contract. This contract
represents a major constituent of what holds any society (which I believe
we'll all agree is a requirement for an economy) which is trust in the other
members, that they will do what is expected at the right time. In these
sorts of 2-party systems there can't be an expectable set of reactions. The
contract exists from the time the consumer approaches the producer asking
for a price, till the time the consumer has taken possession of the object
of desire and the producer has their money. At that point, there is no
warranty, no 3rd party to enforce any sort of liability, etc. Because of
this the business world is best described by caviat emptor. You bought what
you got. Now consider the Prisoners Delima, under what conditions does a
prisoner go along with the jailer, or tries to escape (not play by the
rules, whatever they may be - in this case the contract between the
parties). The maximal payback for the prisoner is to go along until the
jailer is lulled into a false sense of security. And then defect. This is
wired into human genes, everybody does it because that is how we survive as
a group in the wild. People as a whole and as individuals don't mind
stretching the rules, it's just a question of what rules and how far.

> 	B) a competitor emerges that manages to meet the entire markets
> desires for goods and services in such a way that profits are so thin as to
> not attract competion.

Not *a competitor*, only that the total number of competitors in a given
market can and do meet the market needs. At this point the growth rates of
the individual business strategies begin to emerge and high efficiency and
long-lived strategies begin to gain the upper-hand. As time goes by
businesses either die and are replaced by consumption or else they merge to
create a new structure. The major featues of that structure are that it has
potential for long-lived behaviour and it reduces the management overhead,
and potentialy the work force requirements (but that's icing on the cake).
At that point there will be a merge because both sets of competitors want to
make more money, that is their sole reason for existance.

> 	(1) can be effectively ignored, it is a localized (in time)
> condition that the market will usually remedy.

Is a totaly false conjecture not born out by history or theory.

> 	I have maintained that Monopolies in ANY market large enough to
> accept competition (i.e. larger than one or two purchasers) cannot continue
> to exist (in fact would have a hard time coming into existence) without
> some sort of government influence.

And I have yet to see an explanation expressed in market dynamics that
describes how this supposed process works. Phloegestron and ether were great
ideas until somebody tried to measure them...

Whew. I've about had my fill of this topic for the time being....

Adios mi amigos!


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 08:31:30 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199810062119.QAA09408@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 8:56 AM -0500 10/8/98, James A. Donald wrote:
>At 04:19 PM 10/6/98 -0500, Jim Choate wrote:
>> Who said anything about 'artificial'? You have a sneaky
>> habit of sticking terms in there where they don't go hoping
>> somebody won't catch it. We're talking a free-market, there
>> are *only* two participants; provider and consumer. If I
>> allow 'artificial' in there then there is the explicit
>> assumption that a third party is now involved. I won't
>> accept a bastardization of free-market in that manner.
>
>Then your argument that free markets lead to monopoly collapses.
>
>You cannot have monopoly (in the sense of the power to extract monopoly of
>profits) except by state intervention as has been proven by experience time
>and time again.
>
>You have been unable to provide any examples of monopolies except those
>created by state intervention, such as the railaways, and those existent
>soley in your fevered imagination, such as the garment industry.
>

	Given that the textile/garment industry is often one of the first
and loudest pro-tarif voices, there might be a government manipulation
arguement there as well.
--
"To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a
jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a
gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather naďve, and certainly
unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust"
http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html

Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent.
Inc.::petro@playboy.com::petro@bounty.org




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 08:45:49 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810090031.TAA21986@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: Matthew James Gering 
> Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
> Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 16:14:32 -0700 

> The Mafia has had two primary characteristics:
> 
> a) the use of force

not necessarily.

> b) trade in elicit and prohibited goods and services

not necessarily.

What the La Familia represents in Italian social history is a concentration
of resources within a geographic region. They were the 'law of the land'.
There was no need for violence or any other covert economics. As those
groups got bigger and interacted more with each other conflict arose.
This conflict was the primary spark in the creation of the 3rd party that
hadn't existed prior to this time (note that the market exists before the
'government' per se). The period of time to pay particular attention to in
Italy's particular case is when the city states began to coalesce into what we now term Italy. This
is a good example because the mountains in Northern Italy acted as barrier
to outside influence to a certain degree and the spine of the boot forced
life to focus on the sea coast. This made maritime trade and it's speed
advantage over foot or hoof obvious. It also allowed a larger geographic
area to enjoy a nearly homegenous culture.

What is really interesting is that so many cultures have these sorts of
organizations. Consider the growth of the Tongs in China with the loss of
the concept of tribe within general Chinese culture. Also interesting is
that economists as a general population doesn't study these periods to any
degree worth mentioning. Historians do however.

> Unless you can claim a reference to a Mafia at some time and place that
> had neither characteristics and a market which they monopolized which
> lacked any other intervention, then this all is utterly irrelevant to
> the discussion at hand.

Not at all, as demonstrated above.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 11:00:17 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code)
In-Reply-To: <199810080430.AAA01120@snark.thyrsus.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981008194226.008cfdc0@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>> Accordingly, I urge you not to encourage an artificial split between 
>> the cypherpunks and the open-source community.  Your licensing argument
>> is not with the open-source community as a whole, it is very
>> specifically with the partisans of the GPL.


- Cypherpunks want to maximize distribution and use of good crypto.
Access to source for any product you use is necessary, 
primarily so you can tell if it has backdoors, weak crypto,
bad implementations, known bugs, previously unknown bugs,
and similar problems that are easiest to detect when
lots of people look at the source code.  

Secondarily, unencumbered source code is easier to include
in products, whether they're public-domain, commercial,
freeware, Genuinely RMS-Approved Free Software (r,tm,patpend),
careware, Greedy Hoardware, or whatever, 	and 
the easier some code is to include in a product,
the more likely it is to get used.  In particular, if using
some code requires paying money to its authors, that makes it
hard to include in low-priced products and harder in free products.
If using the code requires changing the user's business model,
it's less likely to get used, though the Library versions of
the GNU license are much easier to use than the full GNU Public Virus,
and almost anything is easier to use than Patented Algorithms
Only Licensable From David Chaum.

These two issues fit together - secret algorithms
and secret code lead to junk like MS PPTP or GSM A5 which
totally collapse when examined by professionals, and even
with available source, there are bugs that can hide for a long time,
so the more people checking out a system, the better.

Some cypherpunks produce mostly free or Free software, some sell theirs
for money while hoarding what they can, some work for tax-subsidized
universities where publishing work is critical.

- Open Source proponents differ on the tactics they think are most effective
in making it possible for anyone to use source, from PD to GNUware.

[We at the People's Front For Open Source don't believe in religious wars,
unlike those HERETICS over at the Open Source People's Front, who believe
that the best way to get everybody to open their source is to give away
good source code only to virtuous people who agree to give away _their_
source code under the same conditions, instead of giving it away
untainted by even the recognition of the sin of code hoarding like we do.:-]

To the extent that openness-promoting tactics interfere with use of good code,
they act against cypherpunk goals, though the same can be said about
license-revenue-promoting tactics and other attempts to control users.

Most of us in both overlapping camps disapprove of software patents, 
and patents has done almost as much as the NSA to impede crypto deployment, 
but there are some cypherpunks who have them, and some who believe that 
patent and copyright _have_ had their intended benefit, 
which is to encourage authors and inventors by
making it easier for them to make money from their work.

I had one interesting discussion with RMS in which we ended up agreeing
that if software patents only lasted 5 years instead of 20,
they'd still be bad but we could more or less live with them,
because that would reduce the extent to which they interfered with
programmers using techniques, whether the programmer was using
a published patented technique or had reinvented it independently
and missed it when doing literature searches before publishing.



				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 09:07:40 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810090053.TAA22127@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 19:06:02 -0500
> From: Petro 
> Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)

> 	Given that the textile/garment industry is often one of the first
> and loudest pro-tarif voices, there might be a government manipulation
> arguement there as well.

They are now, but your use of an example after the market was regulated to
argue that the behaviour of the market is due to being regulated is circular.

The garment industy wasn't *always* regulated. Prior to the early 1900's
they operated carte blanche regarding regulation. 16-20 hr days, 6 year old
employees, no insurance, etc., etc. At some point after the turn of the
century the social climate changed in such a way that these sorts of
behaviours became unacceptable. It could have been something as simple as a
series of newspaper articles that set it off. All that was required was that
enough employee/consumers figured the shell game out and screamed bloody
murder about it. You want to know what sets government off? It's the
realization by the constituancy as a whole that their collective suffering
isn't singular.

A more recent example, and local to anyone in the US is the air conditioning
repair industry. At one time prior to the late 70's and early 80's a license
from the state or city to specificaly operate a air conditioning service
industry wasn't needed. You simply got a regular old business license and a
pick-up. The abuses and failures of the industry led to enough noise and
complaints to the government to take a look into the industry. It's what
always happens, an industry goes along until it gets big enough to be
noticed by larger business. What after all is government but a form of
business designed to regulate other businesses and activities...

There was no government. Then there were many governments. Then the
governments have fight and reduce the number of governments. The remaining
governments move into areas that other governments don't or can't claim
effectively. Then each government exploits its resources until it's ready
for another go around.

The issue is human nature and not politics, economics, physical force, etc.

It's about power and not freedom. Power means you survive another day.
Freedom just means you get another shot at it.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Hohensee 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 04:15:36 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!... (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199810081602.LAA17602@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <361D1967.87B558B0@is9.nyu.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 14:47:34 +0000
> > From: Michael Hohensee 
> > Subject: Re: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!... (fwd)
> 
> > The latter does not necessarily follow from the former.  Consider the
> > example of natural gas and gasoline.  You don't get to conclude your
> > argument that easily! :)
> 
> And you don't get to try such short ones either....
> 
> What specificaly is there about the relationship between natural gas and
> gasoline that leads you to believe that the comparison of lethality between
> the waste products of a coal plant vurses a nuclear plant is such that the
> waste of a nuclear plant is more lethal because there is more toxic
> byproduct and it is in higher concentrations?

Absolutely nothing.  That's my point, not yours --or at least not the
point you made in your previous post.  I had assumed that the flaw in
your previous statement was so obvious that my fairly simple example
would make it crystal clear to you, but it appears that I was
incorrect.  Let me try again.

You said:

> A 1000MW coal plant produces approx 300,000 tons of waste product per year.
> A nuclear plan produces .5. This means the concentration of the chemicals in
> the coal plant are much lower by many orders of magnitude than the nuclear,
> hence making the nuclear waste more toxic by a great deal.

And I say:

This is not a valid argument.  You are saying that since the volume of
nuclear waste is so much less than the volume of the waste produced by a
coal plant, "the concentration of the chemicals in the coal plant [is]
much lower by many orders of magnitude than [that of] the nuclear
[plant]."  For one thing, this comparision is entirely meaningless,
since the waste from coal and nuclear plants is entirely different,
comparing their "concentrations" is impossible.

Of course, what you really meant to refer to was the concentration of
toxic chemicals in the aforementioned waste products.  Yet even your
implied argument is flawed.  You are assuming that there is a constant
unit amount of toxins produced per unit of power generated.  This is an
entirely baseless claim, and is easily refuted.  For example, take the
case of natural gas and gasoline.  Burning gasoline yields carbon
dioxide, water, and various pollutants.  When you burn natural gas, on
the other hand, you get carbon dioxide and water.  Clearly, there is no
power:toxicity ratio at work here.

Take it further. Burn hydrogen.  You get water.  Hydrogen produces much
more energy per unit mass burned than gasoline, yet produces no toxins.

Now, is it clear why the statement you made above is nonsensical?

Michael Hohensee




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 09:14:03 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Something else about 'freedom'... (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810090100.UAA22202@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 16:07:48 -0700
> From: Michael Motyka 
> Subject: Re: Something else about 'freedom'...

> Isn't this the "kill the unbelievers" scenario? Old and revered
> behavior. Tribal. Elemental.

Absolutely. It's burned into everyones genes so deep we couldn't escape it
if we wanted to because it means escaping from ourselves, our very nature.
What defines what we are collectively.

> I don't think 'freedom' means 'anarchy.' 

I certainly hope not.

> Nor does 'anarchy' necessarily mean 'violent lawlessness.' 

Perhaps if we discuss Vulcans. People are people and people use violence and
coercion *because* they are social animals.

Further, anarchy per se unfortunately doesn't describe any mechanism that
can demostrate an expectation that violence is not a viable long term
option. It works.

> And 'rule of law' does not mean 'safety and security.' 

It means an expression of a commen culture through some mechanism. Living
under a 'rule of law' is no less oppressive than any other sort of dictator.

> As strong as the need for order is, so is the need for chaos. Remove
> either and we lose. 

Exactly why an anarchy won't work, it doesn't even attempt to moderate
either behiour and further imposes no necessarily negative result from the
use of violence and coercion. Now if a nice little girl comes up against a
biker and there ain't no cops around, never was, and never will be - who do
you expect to win that argument?

> I think freedom comes from order and knowing what to do with that
> freedom comes from chaos. 

Freedom comes from understanding what one can do standing alone, naked, in
the middle of a wilderness. Everything else is a compromise of that.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 09:31:55 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code) (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810090115.UAA22377@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Subject: Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code) 
> Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 21:02:23 -0400
> From: "Perry E. Metzger" 

> As entertaining as literary deconstruction can be, what is
> interesting here is not what Juliet meant, but what Perry Metzger
> meant in quoting Juliet.

Which to have *any* impact implicity requires a commen understanding of what
Juliet was saying within the context of human society and *not* personal
ego. From that point it's only a question of what literary technique (eg
irony or allegory) was Perry the person using. That technique will define
the constraints on what Perry can say, not Perry's desire to say anything in
particular.

It will always come back to what the base definitions of a word are in a
given language-culture milieu. Yes you can play with it but *only* within
the context of that language. To do otherwise breaks the syntax-symantics
connection and creates another language entirely (or more likely gibberish).


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Richard Stallman 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 08:45:02 +0800
To: shamrock@netcom.com
Subject: Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199810090023.UAA02157@psilocin.gnu.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



The SSLeay license is not a BSD-style license.  The BSD license is not
a typical non-copyleft free license; it has a particular problem.  For
an explanation, see http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/bsd.html.

If you want to release a program as non-copylefted free software,
please use the X11 license, not the BSD license.  The X11 license is
the best of these licenses.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Richard Stallman 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 08:41:42 +0800
To: perry@piermont.com
Subject: Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code)
In-Reply-To: <199810080556.BAA02511@jekyll.piermont.com>
Message-ID: <199810090024.UAA02187@psilocin.gnu.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Since you've quoted Juliet, let's look at what she is really saying.

Your topic is terminology and whether it matters, but Juliet has other
concerns on her mind.  She uses Romeo's family name as a figure of
speech, a stand-in for his family.  When she says his name is
unimportant, she really means that his family ties should be
unimportant.

To make her meaning clear (once we decode the figure of speech),
Juliet depends on our knowing clearly what "Montague" refers to.  She
depends on the meanings of words, and names, in order to make her
point, even when she uses the meanings indirectly.  All speech does.

When you use words that have meanings, your choice of words determines
what you say.  Consider "pro-life" and "anti-abortion": they are used
to refer to the same people, but say very different things about them.
When you speak about them, your choice of terms will communicate an
opinion.  If you care about the abortion issue, you probably care
which opinion you convey.

It's the same for "open source" and "free software".  They refer to
the same software, but say very different things about it.  So how
about giving people an accurate idea of what I say?  Even if you don't
agree with me, you can still do that.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Richard Stallman 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 08:55:59 +0800
To: rick@campbellcentral.org
Subject: Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code)
In-Reply-To: <199810071026.GAA20270@germs.dyn.ml.org>
Message-ID: <199810090025.UAA02286@psilocin.gnu.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



    Public Domain status denotes more freedom than GPL.  It allows all of
    the freedom of GPL and in addition, it allows the freedom of making
    proprietary modifications.

Public domain gives person P the ability to make modified versions and
give users no freedom in using them.  The result is that people in
general have less freedom.

This might seem like a paradox: you give people "more freedom", but
they end up with less.  How can that be?  It has to do with stretching
the word "freedom" to include the ability to control other people.
That kind of "freedom" tends to leave other people with less freedom.
What happened with the X Window System illustrates this unambiguously
(see http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/x.html).

One way to avoid the paradox is to distinguish between freedom and
power.  Freedom is being able to decide your own activities and
choices that affect mainly you.  When someone can decide other
people's activities, or choices that affect mainly others, that is
power, not freedom.

With this definition, the paradox goes away.  Copyright is a power,
not a freedom.  Copyleft, by blocking this power, protects freedom.
The GNU GPL guarantees basic freedom for all users, which otherwise
they will tend to lose.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 09:16:37 +0800
To: mac-crypto@vmeng.com
Subject: WPI Cryptoseminar, Wednesday, 10/14
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


X-Authentication-Warning: goya.WPI.EDU: christof owned process doing -bs
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 18:19:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: Christof Paar 
To: "WPI.Crypto.Seminar":;
cc: DCSB 
Subject:  WPI Cryptoseminar, Wednesday, 10/14
MIME-Version: 1.0
Sender: bounce-dcsb@ai.mit.edu
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: Christof Paar 


       WPI Cryptography and Information Security Seminar

               Prof. David Finkel, CS Dept., WPI

   PERFORMANCE AND SECURITY IN WEB-BASED ELECTRONIC COMMERCE


                       Wednesday, October 14
                         4:00 pm,  AK 108
                    (refreshments at 3:45 pm)


This talk reports on the results of a performance evaluation of a testbed
electronic commerce application on the World Wide Web.  The study measured
the performance of the system using different levels of security, and offers
some insights into the performance costs of security for such an
installation.  In addition, we discuss the performance implications of
different implementation strategies.  The work represents a joint effort by
researchers from WPI and Stratus Computer, Inc.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

DIRECTIONS:

The WPI Cryptoseminar is being held in the Atwater Kent building on the
WPI campus. The Atwater Kent building is at the intersection of West and
Salisbury Street for those coming from outside. Directions to the campus
can be found at http://www.wpi.edu/About/Visitors/directions.html


TALKS IN THE FALL '98 SEMESTER:

8/12  Kris Gaj, George Mason University
      Quantum Computers and Classical Supercomputers as a Threat to
      Existing Ciphers.

10/6  Christof Paar, WPI
      Report on AES

10/14 David Finkel, CS Dept., WPI
      Performance and Security in Web-based Electronic Commerce

10/28 Thomas Blum, WPI
      Efficient FPGA Architectures for Public-Key Algorithms

[other talks to be announced]


See also http://ece.WPI.EDU/Research/crypt/seminar/index.html for
abstracts of some of the talks.


MAILING LIST:

If you want to be added to the mailing list and receive talk announcements
together with abstracts, please send me a short mail. Likewise, if you want
to be removed from the list, just send me a short mail.


Regards,

Christof Paar


*************************************************************************
Christof Paar                   http://ee.wpi.edu/People/faculty/cxp.html
Assistant Professor             email:  christof@ece.wpi.edu
Cryptography Group              phone:  (508) 831 5061
ECE Department, WPI             fax:    (508) 831 5491
100 Institute Road
Worcester, MA 01609, USA
*************************************************************************


For help on using this list (especially unsubscribing), send a message to
"dcsb-request@ai.mit.edu" with one line of text: "help".

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: William Knowles 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 12:02:42 +0800
To: DC-Stuff 
Subject: A Scud in California!
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>From another one of the several lists I'm on, I figured someone
might know who the new pseudo-proud owner of a fully-operational
SS-1C Scud missle *WITH* moblie launcher is...

Cheers!

William Knowles
erehwon@dis.org


 Intelligence, N. 86, 5 October 1998, p. 12


 USA

 THE SCUD THAT DIDN'T GET AWAY

 At "Intelligence", we're taking bets that you won't hear about
 the unidentified British firm which used an unnamed British
 freighter to import a fully-operational SS-1C Scud missile --
 complete with launcher, but missing its warhead -- into the
 United States.  According to a 25 September report in the
 "Washington Times", special investigators from HM Customs and
 Excise have been asked to determine how paperwork sent with the
 system came to be falsified, but they're probably going to run
 into ... the Pentagon because the Scud missile and its mobile
 transporter-erector launcher were seized on 2 September by the
 US Customs Service at Port Hueneme, California, about 56 km.
 north of Los Angeles and ... next door to the US Navy Point
 Mugu Pacific Missile Range, and ... the closest military port
 to the Vandenburg US Air Force Base where all classified US
 military launches take place.

 The Russian-designed, Czech-manufactured missile system was
 licensed for importation by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and
 Firearms (ATF), but ... it was wrongly described.  Although
 addressed to a wealthy -- but so far unnamed (and bets are he
 will never be named) -- US citizen, who is regarded as a bona
 fide weapons collector rather than an arms dealer, the missile
 system had not been made inoperable as required by import
 rules.  This is, of course, of interest to the Pentagon.  "This
 is a full-blown missile," stated John Hensley, a senior agent
 of US Customs Service in Los Angeles.  "The only thing missing
 is the warhead."  The launch chassis is a MAZ-543 truck,
 commonly used by former Soviet and Warsaw Pact forces.  "The
 guidance system was totally intact and the engine was ready to
 go," Mr. Hensley said.  "All you needed to do was strap on a
 garbage can full of C-4 high-explosive and you had a weapon."
 The guidance system and engine would, of course, be of intense
 interest to Pentagon intelligence, and the Israeli Mossad,
 particularly if the weapon is a later date or recent model.

 Hensley said the buyer, who lives in Palo Alto, had previously
 purchased a Scud missile that had been properly demilitarized.
 Under US law, such weapons may be imported, provided they are
 first cut up with a blowtorch so that they can never be
 reassembled.  But in this case, in an effort to fool customs
 officials, a photograph of the first -- cut up -- missile to be
 imported was attached to the illegal -- intact -- system, which
 was seized on 2 September.  If the "buyer" really wanted his
 missile, then the San Francisco Bay, which Palo Alto overlooks,
 is a much better port of entry.  Bets at "Intelligence" are
 also out on the "buyer" being associated with the military-
 funded Stanford Research Institute (SRI) or similar Pentagon-
 dependent firms in nearby Silicon Valley.

 COMMENT  --  The SS-1C Scud is a liquid-fueled missile which is
 among the most widely deployed weapons in the world.  It is in
 service in 16 nations.  Iraq's military forces were able to
 extend the range of the missile ("with baling wire and
 plywood", according to certain specialists), and used it
 extensively during the 1991 Gulf war.  International transfers
 of such missiles, which normally have a range of 300 km., are
 banned under the Missile Technology Control Regime.  Although
 the major media suggested the seizure would embarrass the
 Clinton administration, currently engaged in a major
 international diplomatic effort to halt exports of weapons of
 mass destruction and missile-delivery systems by Russia and
 China to the Middle East, it would seem more likely that the
 affair will "drag out indefinitely" in a California court,
 unless an appropriate "buyer" can be "sacrificed" publicly.

 ---------------------------------------------

 Olivier Schmidt,
 Editor of "Intelligence"
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 04:36:37 +0800
To: fod@brd.ie
Subject: Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code)
In-Reply-To: <361CE49F.C858A2CE@brd.ie>
Message-ID: <199810081945.UAA14149@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Frank O'Dwyer writes:
> I'm familiar with C2Net. If Stronghold is any good, that is because
> C2net and/or the Apache team know what they are doing, not just because
> they picked up a free SSL library on the net. It's easy to build
> insecure products on good crypto, and many other companies are busy
> doing just that. 

Perry recently posted a summary of his views on the appropriateness of
GPL vs BSD vs other licenses for achieving various aims, "free
software" under the GNU meaning, vs crypto software deployment.  I
found Perrys summary to be the clearest on the topic so far.

You appear to be arguing with another aim in mind.  You seem to be
arguing that the primary goal should be to have best security, from
the outset.  ie one gets the impression from reading your previous two
posts that you consider ultimate security more important than
deployment.  If this is what you are saying, I disagree.

As I argued further down, I think cypherpunk type goals are better met
my getting people to deploy first, then if they bodge it to encourage
them to fix it, and I gave the example of the Netscape RNG weakness
which was very quicly fixed once it was found:

> > Cypherpunks also get involved in breaking crypto, and this is usually
> > enough to get massively commercially deployed strong crypto with
> > unintentional flaws converted quickly into massively deployed crypto
> > without the flaws.  eg. Netscape's random number generator weakness,
> > which netscape fixed immediately.
> 
> That's condescending and irrelevant. Did anyone ever fix web spoofing?

Which is not in the least condescending or irrelevant as it gives an
example showing that having what turns out to be less than perfect
security can be fairly quickly remedied.  And security is hard, even
competent people make mistakes.  The important thing is to admit and
quickly fix such mistakes.

I've taken your comments on web spoofing to another post.

> Then I guess you agree that closed-source deployment is neither
> necessary nor sufficient to achieve "strong crypto". Not really sure why
> you're arguing in that case.

I don't think anyone suggesed that closed source deployment was in
anyway better than open source, and obviously open source is better
for verifying the quality of crypto software.

However, as was previously suggested, if deployment is the goal, and
if one uses for example a GNU license it tends to discourage
commercial (typically closed source) deployers, and as Lucky said:

: Many companies will not be able to source contaminated by GNU-style
: licensing restrictions. Consequently, alternatives would be
: found. Some of those alternatives, include using no crypto at all or
: using crypto written by somebody that does not understand
: crytography.  Hardly the outcome a Cypherpunk would desire.

And I think at this stage something is vastly better than nothing.

> > You don't get it, but then have you ever written any crypto code with
> > the objective of undermining the power of the state?  Is this your aim
> > in writing your open source application code that you name dropped?
> 
> Yes, and yes. 

Cool, what application area are these in?  Got a URL?

> (I don't think you understand the term "name dropped" btw.  

Just a comment on the Rick Smith (of Secure Computing) syndrome (read
crytopgraphy list you'll know about the book he wrote, because every
other post he makes involves it).  Perhaps not appropriate in your
case, but if people mention software, it is nice to know some details:
why should we be interested in your software etc.

> But given the name-dropping and appeal-to-authority tone of your
> whole post, I wonder if you understand the term "irony").

Irony?  Your post was intended to be ironic?  What is ironic about
arguing that first cut security is more important than deployment?

This is cypherpunks, people tend to speak their mind, and usually
aren't too delicate about it -- welcome to the cypherpunks list.

Adam
-- 
print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<>
)]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 04:36:48 +0800
To: fod@brd.ie
Subject: HTTPS:// hyperlink spoofing (Re: propose: `cypherpunks license')
In-Reply-To: <361CE49F.C858A2CE@brd.ie>
Message-ID: <199810081956.UAA14156@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Frank O'Dwyer writes:
> In fact, it's funny that you tout a "secure web server" as "strong
> crypto" since in that context SSL is usually vulnerable to being
> end-run by web spoofing. Oops. Oh well, it uses strong crypto, so it
> must be good.

As to your web spoofing comments, (which I just read, see:

	http://www.brd.ie/papers/sslpaper/sslpaper.html

) this is a specific instance of the mapping problem, ie. how do you
know that the web page you ended up at belongs to the company you
heard about, or found by a web search or hypertext link on someones
page.  The hierarchical CA model says that you believe it is so
because the CA tells you it is so.

(Franks comment on the (in)security of following an unsecured
hypertext link was that the unsecured hypertext reference could be
modified in an active attack to point to their own (secured) page, and
then accept your payment instead of the company you intended to buy
from).

Netscape 4 behaves in the following way, depending on the situation.

1) the site is using a cert signed by a CA the browser does not
recognise

In this case it shows you through a nice series of dialog box (in
microsofts wizard style), which is quite useful in explaining the
issues.

2) the site is using a cert signed by a CA the browser does recognise

In this case the browser does one of two things depending on whether
you are currently viewing a secure page, or not:

a) from insecure page shows dialog box telling you you are visiting a
secured page, and to click security for more info (clicking security
will show you the cert content, company name, CA details).

b) from secure page shows _nothing_, just goes right into the page
without further comment!  (default setup, freshly installed netscape
4.04 / linux).

(I tried this going from c2net, then typing in cypherpunks.to (Lucky's
site)), if you do click on security button you then get the cert info
again.

  www.cypherpunks.to
  Cypherpunks Jihad
  Cypherpunks Tonga
  Cyberspace, none, TO

Part b) I view as a problem because it doesn't even by default show
you anything.  They could at least present the click through.  They
seem to be treating the secure / insecure as a binary state.

Could someone verify this in later revisions of netscape?

The basic problem though is that even if you do the `nagging dialog
box' click throughs with option to disable, chances are most people
will disable them, because they will get annoyed.

The simplest way to reduce this risk would be for a company to secure
all of it's web pages.  But this isn't going to do that much, because
people often don't know the web page URL.  (Frank notes all this).

Also spoofed company names which look similar to companies in real
life also are possible, for example there was a case of a BT Telekom
or something trying to spoof customers into parting with their money.
This is a problem with gullible consumers.

But if people started from print media advertisement, and typed in the
URL and the URL was signed by a CA then they are at least as secure as
the non-net situation.

In general though, I think there is a solution to this problem:
encrypt all the pages.

The other hard problem is now that you know you are visiting the web
page of FooBar Inc, as attested by Thawte (or whoever), how do you
know that FooBar won't take your money and run.  This is a general
reputation question, with the normal solutions.  If it's an expensive
item, you perhaps check them out, ask around for others experiences,
check with any reputation ratings services (trade groups, etc).

Adam
-- 
print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<>
)]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 09:24:15 +0800
To: rms@gnu.org
Subject: Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code)
In-Reply-To: <199810090024.UAA02187@psilocin.gnu.org>
Message-ID: <199810090102.VAA05952@jekyll.piermont.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Richard Stallman writes:
> Since you've quoted Juliet, let's look at what she is really saying.
> 
> Your topic is terminology and whether it matters, but Juliet has other
> concerns on her mind.  She uses Romeo's family name as a figure of
> speech, a stand-in for his family.  When she says his name is
> unimportant, she really means that his family ties should be
> unimportant.

There are many layers of meaning. There is Juliet, a fictional
character, who means something, in saying what she said. There is
Shakespeare, the writer, who meant something in writing the play as he
did. Then there is Perry Metzger, who obviously meant something in
quoting Shakespeare putting words into Juliet's mouth.

As entertaining as literary deconstruction can be, what is
interesting here is not what Juliet meant, but what Perry Metzger
meant in quoting Juliet.

> It's the same for "open source" and "free software".  They refer to
> the same software, but say very different things about it.  So how
> about giving people an accurate idea of what I say?  Even if you don't
> agree with me, you can still do that.

	"I don't know what you mean by `glory',", Alice said.

	Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. "Of course you don't --- till I
	tell you. I meant `there's a nice knock-down argument for you!'"

	"But `glory' doesn't mean `a nice knock-down argument'," Alice
	objected.

	"When *I* use a word", Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone,
	"it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less."

	"The question is", said Alice, "whether you *can* make words mean so
	many different things"

	"The question is", said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master --
	that's all."

Perry




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 10:22:22 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!... (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810090204.VAA22645@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 01:39:08 +0000
> From: Michael Hohensee 
> Subject: Re: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!... (fwd)

> > > Absolutely nothing.  That's my point, not yours --or at least not the
> > > point you made in your previous post.
> > 
> > It is *exactly* the point I have made from day 1.
> 
> It would appear that Jim either cannot read his own posts (and this may
> well be, as I had a hard time deciphering the exact meaning of that last
> paragraph-sized sentence), or simply cannot remember them.  He certainly
> seems to have a problem with reading the posts of others.

Here is my position. I am pro nuke. Even given the lethality of the
compound and the costs related to disposal it still represents a better
investment of resources and human lives than natural oil, gas, etc.

Yes coal plants use and put out heated water, and yes it effects the
environment. Yes nuclear plants put out as much water as coal plants. It
still represents the major constituecy efluent from a nuclear plant in
regards environmental hazard. The only real question I had regarding nuclear
plants versus coal was the water retention process and the manner in which
nuclear plants process it (there is a question related to comparing coal to
nukes that takes this into account). I was under the (now apparently mistaken)
impression there was a regulation that seperated the core cooling water from
the energy regeneration system driving the turbines (which drive the
generators). The actual process is to release that water slowly over time
into the normaly non-radioactive effluent. Coal plants on the other hand do
put out over 300,000 tons of solid waster per year for a 1000MW plant. This
posses a much higher health hazard (irrespective of some parts per billion
contaminant that is the most toxic substance known to man) than the .5 tons
of solid waste a nuclear plant puts out.

Yes there are stupid laws regarding private processing of nuclear fuel. No,
I don't support them and *nothing* I ever said can be construed that way.

> I'm being to him --flaming him for no good reason! (it's true, there
> isn't a good reason for flaming one such as Jim, they have no effect
> --but it is somewhat cathartic).  While being certain to avoid
> responding to anything in my previous two posts --or at least not in a
> way that makes any sense.

Um, to be absolutely accurate, I have only 'flamed' a few people on this list
ever. Tim May, Perry Metzger, Micheal Frumkin, Adam, a couple of others I don't
remember at the moment. I did it in only one or two instances (Hi Timmy!)
toward any one person. I think the most offensive statement was calling Perry
Metzger a son-of-a-bitch one time because of a particular self-centered
comment he'd made. That was '93 I think, check the archives.

I don't believe I've ever flamed you. And don't intend to now.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 13:07:47 +0800
To: "William H. Geiger III" 
Subject: Re: Another potential flaw in current economic theory... (fwd)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981008211304.008dce10@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Throwing my two cans of petrol on the fire....

>>	Libertarians are just cowardly anarchists, they lack the courage of
>>their convictions to take the last step and eliminate government

Libertarians range from fat-minarchists to minimal-minarchists
to propertarian anarchists to even some non-propertarian anarchists.
Some of them insist on ideologic purity before working together
with anyone else, others don't.  Personally, I'm in the camp that
says that once we've eliminated the first 90% of the government,
we can get to work on eliminating the next 90%, and then it'll 
be a good time to argue about ideological purity because we'll
all be enough safer and more prosperous that even if we don't
get all the disparate things we want, we'll be in the position
of dodging ranting ideologues instead of cops.

Petro, mixing up minarchists and libertarians, says
>> Libertarians are just cowardly anarchists, 
>> they lack the courage of their convictions to take the last step and 
>> eliminate government altogether.
Eliminating governments is a lot harder than disavowing them.

Geiger, who's never tried large-scale anarchism, says
> Anarchism does not work. It is a pipe dream much like Communism that only
> leads to Totalitarianism.
while meanwhile claiming that the
> Constitutionally limited government
of the US would maximize personal freedom.

Choate, who's never tried large-scale free markets, says that
free markets don't work, and lead inevitably to monopoly,
and therefore we ought to use governments monopolies on force to prevent
markets from being free to prevent businessmen from forming monopolies,
as if governments could overcome temptations that businessmen can't.

Stewart, who's never tried large-scale pragmatism, though he's
watched other people try it, says that
the moral case for government is untenable, even if it's
going to take a long while before enough people stop believing
it and it goes away, and getting a Libertarian Party elected
may be a good thing to do in the meantime, just as the 
US Constitution and the Articles of Confederation were useful
though temporary stopgaps to keep the Brits out and 
slow down their Federalist replacements.





				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 04:05:31 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199810081921.VAA06626@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



HOW MUCH CODE DID 'CYPHERPUNK' TIM MAY EVER WRITE?




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 05:11:40 +0800
To: petro@playboy.com
Subject: does Web TV use forward secret cipher-suites? (Re: Web TV with 128b exported)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199810082026.VAA14458@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Petro writes:
> At 2:39 PM -0500 10/7/98, Steve Bryan wrote:
> >David Honig wrote:
> >
> >>I'd guess that the Export control puppets know that the Web-TV hubs will
> >>be subpoena-able by the US even in these other "sovereign" nations.
> >>The WebTV centralized infrastructure makes this easy.

This is as others have noted cisco's doorbelling approach to GAK --
having routers and automated systems doing decryption, and allowing
LEA either direct access (possibly in this case), or access via
complicit operators.

One question which might help determins just how bad this Web TV thing
is, is does it use the forward secret ciphersuites.

If it did use FS ciphersuites, if the LEA starts reading traffic after
some point (by asking the WebTV operators to do so, or by using a
special LEA operator mode), he can't get all old traffic.

The EDH (ephemeral DH) modes are forward secret because a new DH key
is generated for each session.

Some of the RSA modes are forward secret, but only on export grade RSA
key sizes (512 bit).

As it got export permission, I fear the worst.  Perhaps even special
LEA operator access.

Adam




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Blanc" 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 13:07:38 +0800
To: "'Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer'" 
Subject: RE: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!... (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <361D693C.54152DAA@is9.nyu.edu>
Message-ID: <001301bdf341$3b8f1ae0$6d8195cf@blanc>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>From Michael Hohensee:

 
: It would appear that Jim either cannot read his own posts (and this may
: well be, as I had a hard time deciphering the exact meaning of that last
: paragraph-sized sentence), or simply cannot remember them.  
: He certainly seems to have a problem with reading the posts of others.
..........................................


A word to the wise (& argumentive):  check the archives.

     ..
Blanc




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 04:11:43 +0800
To: Jeff.Gordon@inspection.irs.gov
Subject: Re: Request for Assistance
Message-ID: <199810081936.VAA07537@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



You mean to tell me that the GOV is actually going to try to make a
case against someone on *this* mailing list for sending threatening
mail?  Gimme a break!  Have you actually perused any archives of
this list?  If you did, and filtered out any of the crypto/privacy-relevant
posts, you'd be hard pressed to find *anything* that you could take
seriously at all, let alone construe to be threatening.  Unless of course
you take space aliens hiding your drugs to be threatening.

And what, you're from the IRS?  What, was the IRS threatened?  And
this would surprise you how?  Did they threaten to hide the IRS' drugs?
Were they posing as space aliens?  And how come you didn't contact
me?  Does that mean that I'm under investigation?  Or do you just not
like me?  Or were you not sniffing my network connection at the time
to make your illegal determination that I'm on the Cypherpunks mailing
list?

I'd have to agree with Mr. 'X' that you guys have a lot of nerve coming
to this list and asking for assistance in what's probably an illegal
and illegitimate investigation in the first place, looking to claim another
victim in the seemingly never-ending destruction of the rights
of the common man by the faceless fascist government regime.

Or, to sum up, piss off.


At 12:17 PM 10/8/98 -0600, X wrote:
>Jeff,
>
>Good luck in your pursuit.  I think, in the future, you might want to offer
>us the customary 800 number to call you on to rat on our acquaintances.
>
>Two things worry me about your approach:
>
>1) how do you know what emails I get and why in the world do you think it's
>any of your business?
>
>2) is this suspicion by acquaintance?
>
>I'm sure you already know this, but I just recently joined the list so I
>know nothing about anything threatening on this list.  The biggest threat I
>see is from people publicizing that the government is sniffing out email
>addresses and categorizing them based on what they _receive._
>
>Dangerous pursuit, dangerous precedent.
>
>Watch what side you're on.
>
>X
>
>(although I have to admit, you have a lot of guts to come in here and ask
>'free-thinking individuals" to help you gang up on a guy.)
>
>~> -----Original Message-----
>~> From: Gordon Jeff INSP [mailto:Jeff.Gordon@inspection.irs.gov]
>~> Sent: Thursday, October 08, 1998 8:42 AM
>~> To: 'm1tca00@frb.gov'
>~> Subject: Request for Assistance
>~>
>~>
>~> Hello,
>~>
>~> The IRS and United States Attorney's office are looking for assistance
>~> in a criminal investigation involving threatening messages which were
>~> posted to the Cypherpunks mailing list.  This e-mail address was noted
>~> to be one of those which receives the Cypherpunks list.  I would
>~> appreciate it if you would contact me to discuss whether you would be
>~> willing to assist us in this matter, and what records or information you
>~> have relating to the Cypherpunks list.  You can contact me at this
>~> e-mail address or at (503) 326-2787.
>~>
>~> Thanks
>~>
>~> Jeff
>~>
>~>




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Rick Campbell 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 10:43:29 +0800
To: rms@gnu.org
Subject: Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code)
In-Reply-To: <199810090025.UAA02286@psilocin.gnu.org>
Message-ID: <199810090225.WAA06475@germs.dyn.ml.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Boundary..3997.1071713808.multipart/signed"

--Boundary..3997.1071713808.multipart/signed
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

    Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 20:25:25 -0400
    From: Richard Stallman 
    
        Public Domain status denotes more freedom than GPL.  It allows all of
        the freedom of GPL and in addition, it allows the freedom of making
        proprietary modifications.
    
    Public domain gives person P the ability to make modified versions and
    give users no freedom in using them.  The result is that people in
    general have less freedom.

Your presentation confuses two different pieces of software.

It is only the derivative work which has less freedom associated with
it.  It remains the case that the person releasing their software to
the Public Domain has given the users of the software that is released
into the Public Domain more freedom to do as they will with that
software.

By releasing into the Public Domain, the author gives up the power to
control other people's activities and allows them to make different,
derived, software which might not have the same level of freedom.
However, such activities do not detract from the freedom that remains
associated with the software that was released into the Public Domain
-- freedom that is taken away by the GPL.

And while some derivative works may be proprietary, it's not uncommon
for other derivations to remain in the Public Domain.  CMU Common Lisp
is an example that comes to mind.  Whether or not Lucid, Allegro, or
any other proprietary system ever made use of any CMU Common Lisp code
has not detracted from the code released into the Public Domain.  This
code continues to be maintained, enhanced, ported to new platforms,
etc.

			Rick


--Boundary..3997.1071713808.multipart/signed
Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="pgp00003.pgp"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="pgp00003.pgp"
Content-Description: "PGP signature"

LS0tLS1CRUdJTiBQR1AgTUVTU0FHRS0tLS0tClZlcnNpb246IDIuNi4zaWEK
Q29tbWVudDogUHJvY2Vzc2VkIGJ5IE1haWxjcnlwdCAzLjQsIGFuIEVtYWNz
L1BHUCBpbnRlcmZhY2UKCmlRQ1ZBd1VCTmgxMExCSWU5MVViOERjRkFRSEtD
QVFBdUVLUEYvVHYwK3lIU2NzTC9jeWFua2V2M0pXR2IyaXgKMUlPd05rbjhl
a3o4R2IydFhtRHV2RXZIbW5ONEJjczJLaHo2YmdhS0JRL2hXa3NQQlZVcStY
NmZ3QWVzTWptdAplN2FtMmxOS1M2V1JCMzF2UEdkVUFRb08xTUoxNzNlVmpR
S1hvRVByNzB0Qlc1dGQvY0JHUnE3YmFoMXAzRVpKCkk0OGtKMkk1ZC9JPQo9
TEdKbQotLS0tLUVORCBQR1AgTUVTU0FHRS0tLS0tCg==
--Boundary..3997.1071713808.multipart/signed--



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 05:03:41 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199810082030.WAA12450@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Is there an offhand reference to ECHELON in the second paragraph?


 

National Counterintelligence Center
Counterintelligence News and Developments
Volume 3 September 1998
------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.nacic.gov/cind/SEPT98.htm


More on French Spying

The French magazine Le Point reported in mid-June that France
systematically listens in on the telephone conversations and cable traffic
of many businesses based in the United States and other nations. The
article also reports the French Government uses a network of listening
stations to eavesdrop and pass on commercial secrets to French businesses
competing in the global economy.


The article goes on to state that the French secret service, DGSE, has
established listening posts in the Dordogne (Southern France) and also in
its overseas territories, including French Guiana and New Caledonia. The
article attributes to an unnamed "senior official within this branch of the
French secret service" the claim, "This is the game of the secret war,"
adding that U.S. listening posts do the same. The magazine report says
Germans who bought into the French Helios 1A spy satellite system are being
given access to political and economic secrets as part of a Franco-German
agreement to compete with a commercial information agreement between the
United States and Britain. 




------------------------------------------------------------------------


Mexican Hackers 
Mount Attack





According to an August 1998 Reuters report, a small group of computer
hackers have declared electronic war on the Mexican state. They have
plastered the face of revolutionary hero Emiliano Zapata on the Finance
Ministry's Web site and claim to have monitored visits by Mexican Senators
to X-rated Internet sites. They also have vowed to attack official
databases for incriminating numbers and publicize government bank accounts,
cellular phone conversations, and e-mail addresses. So far the cyber
pirates, who say they are a trio of Mexicans, appear to be more a nuisance
than a serious threat, but they are serving as a wake-up call for computer
security in Mexico, experts said. One of the hackers stated during an
online interview with Reuters that "We protest with the weapons we have and
those weapons are computers." The hackers surfaced in February when
visitors to the Finance Ministry's official Web site were surprised to find
Zapata staring back at them.






  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Frank O'Dwyer" 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 06:50:44 +0800
To: Adam Back 
Subject: Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code)
In-Reply-To: <199810081945.UAA14149@server.eternity.org>
Message-ID: <361D3BD9.328931B5@brd.ie>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Adam Back wrote:
> You seem to be
> arguing that the primary goal should be to have best security, from
> the outset.  ie one gets the impression from reading your previous two
> posts that you consider ultimate security more important than
> deployment.  If this is what you are saying, I disagree.

No, I am arguing that if deployment of privacy is your goal, then you
need _some_ base level of security before you've really deployed
privacy. Deploying crypto is not the same thing. I do agree that it's
important to get stuff "out there" in whatever form (partly to get it
fixed, but mainly so it can't be shut down). I just think the closed
source route is a dead end. I also think that the free crypto libraries
exist, and now it would be nice to see free crypto applications. By that
I mean turnkey stuff with Windows installation programs and GUIs that
normal people can use--and *source* (turnkey for developers too). Make
it easy to have privacy, basically.

[...]
> if people mention software, it is nice to know some details:
> why should we be interested in your software etc.

Well, it's early days (I am just designing and prototyping now), but my
goal is to make a decentralised secure messaging client that ordinary
ISP users can use without any special resources. Something like icq, but
with crypto and without any central server, the intention being that it
would be easier to set up and harder to filter or shut down. I have in
mind an abstract messaging service that can be extended to use whatever
channel or drop-point happens to be available (e.g. irc, direct sockets,
email, remailers, ftp, usenet, intermediaries, icq). So for example you
could use irc just to rendezvous with someone (or meet them in the first
place), then use diffie-hellman to establish a private channel for a
real-time chat, then subsequently use an ftp site or a newsgroup to
exchange offline messages. The challenge is to make this easy. It's
something I want for myself, but I figure with the addition of a nice
GUI and an installer etc., it could be of wider interest. (And no, I
have no idea when I'll have some code to show, but I guess now I've
mentioned it I better finish it :)

Cheers,
Frank O'Dwyer.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 08:09:09 +0800
To: fod@brd.ie
Subject: importance of GUIs / secure distributed IRC (Re: propose: `cypherpunks license')
In-Reply-To: <361D3BD9.328931B5@brd.ie>
Message-ID: <199810082259.XAA15504@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Frank writes:
> I do agree that it's important to get stuff "out there" in whatever
> form (partly to get it fixed, but mainly so it can't be shut down).

Yup, so it can't be shut down is what I was getting at.

> need _some_ base level of security before you've really deployed
> privacy. Deploying crypto is not the same thing. 

Well if you personally have any influence over the design or code,
make it as secure as you can, forward secrecy, generous key sizes,
decentralised design, source code included etc.  I'd take that as a
given.

But I think a company slotting crypto into a product, or re-selling a
crypto application (like say Stronghold) is useful too, and doesn't
conflict with the first aim.  I don't think anyone is proposing not
distribute code, rather just noting that encouraging companies to
include crypto in their applications where they would not otherwise do
so all helps.  And in general a free-er license means more people will
use the code.

> I also think that the free crypto libraries exist, and now it would
> be nice to see free crypto applications. By that I mean turnkey
> stuff with Windows installation programs and GUIs that normal people
> can use--and *source* (turnkey for developers too). Make it easy to
> have privacy, basically.

This is all important, I agree.  Many cypherpunks type coding efforts
end up being usuable only by unix hackers, or whatever.  eg Magic
Money by pr0duct cypher.

As I think someone noted recently this tends to happen because the fun
part to the coder is implementing the crypto part and getting it
working.  After that GUIs and stuff is boring slog, so tends to not
get done.

> > if people mention software, it is nice to know some details:
> > why should we be interested in your software etc.
> 
> Well, it's early days (I am just designing and prototyping now), but my
> goal is to make a decentralised secure messaging client that ordinary
> ISP users can use without any special resources. Something like icq, but
> with crypto and without any central server, the intention being that it
> would be easier to set up and harder to filter or shut down. 

OK, I take it back... you are a cypherpunk after all :-)

Some people are working on this, I seem to be getting Cc'd on their
discussions, which included lately a reasonably detailed spec.
Perhaps you could merge projects.

Adam




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 13:25:48 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Another potential flaw in current economic theory... (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810090511.AAA23308@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 21:13:04 -0700
> From: Bill Stewart 
> Subject: Re: Another potential flaw in current economic theory... (fwd)

> Choate, who's never tried large-scale free markets, says that

Actualy it's how I make my living, supporting those large scale markets (I
won't argue the free part).

> free markets don't work, and lead inevitably to monopoly,
> and therefore we ought to use governments monopolies on force to prevent

Where do I *ever* say we need 'government' monopolies. Not once, not ever.
I have said, and stand by it now, that what is needed is an *impartial* 3rd
party. That does *NOT* equate to 'the government'.

What is important to my thesis is that the regulator is impartial.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 16:31:19 +0800
To: Steve Bryan 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981009010603.008f8100@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 02:39 PM 10/7/98 -0500, Steve Bryan wrote:
> David Honig wrote:
> > I'd guess that the Export control puppets know that the Web-TV hubs will
> > be subpoena-able by the US even in these other "sovereign" nations.
> > The WebTV centralized infrastructure makes this easy.
>
> This announcement seems to be getting a lot of this sort of reaction but I
> don't see quite why the news is greeted with such animosity.  If a duly
> authorized search warrant is required in order to obtain information that
> represents a potential world of difference from having unrestricted ability
> to monitor all communications.

Who would you execute the search warrant _on_?  The web site and the
browser user?  (Then why not let Netscape and IE export 128-bit?)
Or some third party who has access to something in the middle
(and may not be picky about search warrants, and may not have as much
standing to resist a court order or subpoena) ?
Or is the WebTV 128-bit code crippleware, using some backdoor key
or other hole for police to break in?

Basically, it just sounds fishy.


				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Hohensee 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 09:54:34 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!... (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199810082107.QAA20666@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <361D693C.54152DAA@is9.nyu.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate wrote:
> 
> Forwarded message:
> 
> > Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 19:58:31 +0000
> > From: Michael Hohensee 
> > Subject: Re: I thought of an initialy regulated industry!... (fwd)
> 
> > > What specificaly is there about the relationship between natural gas and
> > > gasoline that leads you to believe that the comparison of lethality between
> > > the waste products of a coal plant vurses a nuclear plant is such that the
> > > waste of a nuclear plant is more lethal because there is more toxic
> > > byproduct and it is in higher concentrations?
> >
> > Absolutely nothing.  That's my point, not yours --or at least not the
> > point you made in your previous post.
> 
> It is *exactly* the point I have made from day 1.

It would appear that Jim either cannot read his own posts (and this may
well be, as I had a hard time deciphering the exact meaning of that last
paragraph-sized sentence), or simply cannot remember them.  He certainly
seems to have a problem with reading the posts of others.

> If you believe otherwise the mistake is yours.
> 

Isn't it nice the way Jim avoids having to argue intelligently?  He can
just take the first statement that someone makes, delete everything else
after it, and proceed to do nothing but offer a contradiction.  He seems
to think that this action is sufficient to make him right, and his
opponents wrong.  Oh well, if it makes him feel better, who am I to
argue?  I certainly can't carry on an intelligent conversation with him.

Now watch Jim's response to this message.  He will:

A:  Ignore it entirely, as is often the wont of people who have no
rational argument to make, and who realize they've painted themselves
into a corner.

B:  Reply, but cut out large portions of this post, and respond with a
few trite phrases which prove absolutely nothing but assuage his ego.

C:  Reply, include all of this post, and proceed to whine about how mean
I'm being to him --flaming him for no good reason! (it's true, there
isn't a good reason for flaming one such as Jim, they have no effect
--but it is somewhat cathartic).  While being certain to avoid
responding to anything in my previous two posts --or at least not in a
way that makes any sense.

Of course, I could be wrong.  Jim *could* choose option:

D:  Re-reply to my previous post, and address the arguments which he so
conveniently chopped out this time.

But given his track record so far, I doubt it.

Michael Hohensee




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 18:00:10 +0800
To: "'Steve Mynott'" 
Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A193A7A33@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Not really, the state holds a monopoly on "legal" force, whereas the
Mafia and other black-market organizations do not. What is interesting
is they use force often because they cannot use the government legal
system to arbitrate their disputes.

	Matt

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Steve Mynott [mailto:stevem@tightrope.demon.co.uk]

> On Thu, Oct 08, 1998 at 04:14:32PM -0700, Matthew James Gering wrote:
> > 
> > The Mafia has had two primary characteristics:
> > 
> > a) the use of force
> 
> wouldn't this characteristic define the mafia as a "state" to some
> degree?




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 18:25:02 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: RE: Another potential flaw in current economic theory... (fwd)
Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A193A7A35@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




> > free markets don't work, and lead inevitably to monopoly,
> > and therefore we ought to use governments monopolies on 
> force to prevent
> 
> Where do I *ever* say we need 'government' monopolies. Not 
> once, not ever.

No, I believe he said (meant) government's monopoly on force (i.e.
regulation, not anarchism), not government monopolies.

> I have said, and stand by it now, that what is needed is an 
> *impartial* 3rd party. That does *NOT* equate to 'the 
> government'.

Wow, I happen to agree, people need on objective framework in which to
take their disputes. The only such framework though that need be a
monopoly is one that deals with force as the dispute or where force is
the end retribution (i.e. you cannot have regulatory arbitrage with
force). The problem is the assumption that any such regulator could be
impartial. The need for such arbiter needs to be minimized (hence
minimal/limited government = laissez faire != anarcho-capitalism).

	Matt




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: announce@inbox.nytimes.com (New York Times subscription robot)
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 15:53:33 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Welcome to The New York Times on the Web
Message-ID: <199810090806.DAA146876@inbox.nytimes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 12:47:20 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: readme.txt
Message-ID: <199810090445.GAA16013@www.ecn.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



lets not sit here breeding hatred amongst ourselves over
software licenses, for god's sake. we have more important things
to do. we need to try and implement more different --kinds-- of
crypto applications, like tim says in a recent post. we have to 
work together on this, not spread hard feelings amongst our little
group. (really i think the number of people who can write this kind
of code and who understand the political part is miniscule.)
coopration is key. fucking smash the state.

In a closed-door manuever, controversial "roving wiretap"
provisions have been added to a major Intelligence authorization
bill and passed by the House. Current wiretapping law allows
tapping of a particular person's phones. The new provisions would
dramatically expand current authority by allowing taps on any
phone used by, or "proximate" to, the person being tapped -- no
matter whose phone it is. 

http://www.cdt.org/legislation/calea/roving.html






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 20:41:07 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Navy's Open Source Security Project Shines
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Delivered-To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 23:28:13 -0400
From: Richard Sampson 
Organization: Unknown Organization
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: "ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com" 
Subject: IP: Navy's Open Source Security Project Shines
Sender: owner-ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Richard Sampson 

Navy's Open Source Security Project Shines
Oct 08, 1998 (Tech Web - CMP via COMTEX) -- An open source security
program created by a team of Navy programmers is proving to be one of
the most successful high-tech network burglar alarms online.

Late last month, the Navy released an unusual warning -- attackers were
probing military computers in ways that had previously gone unnoticed,
coordinating efforts around the world to keep any individual series of
probes virtually invisible.

Analysts had finally noticed the potential crackers' coordinated probes
using the Navy's SHADOW, or Secondary Heuristic Analysis System for
Defensive Online Warfare, intrusion-detection program.

"It was partly dumb luck," said Stephen Northcutt, the Navy's lead
analyst and programmer on the SHADOW team. But the software's
sensitivity to subtle attacks, combined with the number-crunching power
of statisticians associated with the project, let Northcutt and his
team of analysts tease evidence of the probes out of a mass of
apparently innocuous network logs, he said.

The SHADOW software is one of a growing number of intrusion-detection
tools on the market, designed to pick up and help analyze attempts to
break into computer networks instead of simply functioning as a passive
firewall-style siege wall.

Most of the major commercial-security vendors, such as Axent, Internet
Security Systems, or Network Associates, all provide
intrusion-detection programs, with support and service teams that can
help analyze possible attacks.

SHADOW is different in this respect. It is freely distributed online.
Like most open source programs, there is some documentation, but no
official support -- although there is a huge community of programmers
who have looked at the code and have written improvements and continue
to tinker with the way it functions.

The software itself is the product of more than two years of work by a
team led by Northcutt. The code was initially released to the public
last May, and revised later in the summer after a slew of comments and
criticism from outside developers.

It consists of two parts. Sensors sit outside a network firewall,
monitoring normal and potentially illicit attempts to enter the
network. An analysis system sits inside the firewall keeping a log of
activity, and periodically putting this information in front of a human
security analyst.

In the months since its release, the program has been picked up and
used by several major financial institutions, universities, local
government systems, and divisions of large companies that don't have
budgets for commercial intrusion-detection programs, Northcutt said.

"It's very good at doing some things and not so good at others," said
Allen Paller, chief researcher at the SANS Institute, a
network-security research and education organization. The program can
be initially difficult to use, since it requires users to program their
own filters to recognize attacks or probes not included in the original
documentation.

But the program's open source birth and evolution has made it strong
and extremely sensitive, Paller said. "The real strength of this
process is [the program] has been beaten on."

Northcutt is a proponent of pushing the open source model even beyond
the development of code, at least in the security field.

Most intrusion-detection programs function by picking up unusual events
-- malformed TCP or domain name system queries, handshakes between
servers and clients that don't look quite right, or other signs of
computer probes and attacks. SHADOW and other commercial trip-wire
programs do a good job of picking up things they recognize, Northcutt
and other security analysts said. But new attacks -- such as the
coordinated probes spotlighted by the Navy last month -- require
considerable expert analysis to spot.

"Attackers have been sharing very well inside their community," we have
no equivalent to the underground magazines and other communication
channels." -- Stephen Northcutt U.S. Navy That's where the open source
model comes in, Northcutt said. Intrusion-detection analysts can
function best if information about different attacks is widely and
freely distributed. The Navy site that distributes SHADOW publishes
much of the information it uncovers, and distributes new filters that
recognize new attacks and probes. This kind of open, widely shared
information is critical for stopping crackers, but must happen on a
wide scale, he said.

"Attackers have been sharing very well inside their community,"
Northcutt said. "We have no equivalent to the underground magazines and
other communication channels."

Paller agreed. His organization is one of several that sponsor
workshops where security professionals can share their experiences with
their peers. SANS also runs a security-oriented mailing list with
nearly 55,000 subscribers, many of whom served as SHADOW reviewers.

"Unless we get communication lines going, we can't keep up," Paller
said. "Otherwise, we don't have a chance."

-0-

Copyright (C) 1998 CMP Media Inc.


News provided by COMTEX.
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--
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a
prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------





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--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Blake Coverett" 
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 01:06:21 +0800
To: 
Subject: Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code)
Message-ID: <004801bdf3a1$f168e6b0$b401010a@is_blake.wizards.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>This might seem like a paradox: you give people "more freedom", but
>they end up with less.  How can that be?  It has to do with stretching
>the word "freedom" to include the ability to control other people.
>That kind of "freedom" tends to leave other people with less freedom.
>What happened with the X Window System illustrates this unambiguously
>(see http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/x.html).


This assumes that writing and selling proprietary software is 'the ability
to
control other people'.  I fail to see why this would be the case.  Free
software
is a good thing, but people *choose* to accept the restrictions of non-free
software for any number of reasons.  I do not see anyone being coerced into
using it by threat of physical force.

regards,
-Blake (who prefers markets to religions, even with software)





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Werner Koch 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 16:38:38 +0800
To: rick@campbellcentral.org
Subject: Re: propose: `cypherpunks license'
In-Reply-To: <199810071026.GAA20270@germs.dyn.ml.org>
Message-ID: <19981009100220.E11573@isil.d.shuttle.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Richard Stallman  writes:

> This might seem like a paradox: you give people "more freedom", but
> they end up with less.  How can that be?  It has to do with stretching
> the word "freedom" to include the ability to control other people.
> That kind of "freedom" tends to leave other people with less freedom.

   "Die Freiheit des Einzelnen endet dort,
    wo sie die Freiheit der Anderen einschränkt."
                                      Rosa Luxemburg

   The freedom of an individual ends, as it (the freedom)
   limits the freedom of the others.


[This was one of the former Eastern Germany liberty movements' slogans
 -  and not a communists one]


  Werner




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Steve Mynott 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 17:42:37 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: Another potential flaw in current economic theory... (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199810081951.OAA20049@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <19981009101640.A29055@tightrope.demon.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Thu, Oct 08, 1998 at 02:51:56PM -0500, Jim Choate wrote:

> Then freedom is incompatible with human psychology. People are social
> animals and will build social institutions (ie government), it's in their
> genes.

government is a special form of social institution, one which has a self
declared monopoly on force and is immoral.

> The point is to create a market with 'fair competition', something that
> won't occur naturaly because of a variety of reasons. 

'fair competition' is any competition that doesn't involve political
force or breaking contracts.

-- 
1024/D9C69DF9 steve mynott steve@tightrope.demon.co.uk http://www.pineal.com/

    the steady state of disks is full.
        -- ken thompson




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Steve Mynott 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 17:49:09 +0800
To: Matthew James Gering 
Subject: Re: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A193A7A31@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
Message-ID: <19981009102419.B29483@tightrope.demon.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Thu, Oct 08, 1998 at 04:14:32PM -0700, Matthew James Gering wrote:
> 
> The Mafia has had two primary characteristics:
> 
> a) the use of force

wouldn't this characteristic define the mafia as a "state" to some
degree?

-- 
1024/D9C69DF9 steve mynott steve@tightrope.demon.co.uk http://www.pineal.com/

the capacity of human beings to bore one another seems to be vastly
greater than that of any other animals.  some of their most esteemed
inventions have no other apparent purpose, for example, the dinner
party of more than two, the epic poem, and the science of metaphysics.  -- h. l.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mok-Kong Shen 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 17:01:17 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Post from Anonymous
In-Reply-To: <199810082030.WAA12450@replay.com>
Message-ID: <361DD830.42711623@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Anonymous wrote:

> The article goes on to state that the French secret service, DGSE, has
> established listening posts in the Dordogne (Southern France) and also in
> its overseas territories, including French Guiana and New Caledonia. The
> article attributes to an unnamed "senior official within this branch of the
> French secret service" the claim, "This is the game of the secret war,"
> adding that U.S. listening posts do the same. The magazine report says
> Germans who bought into the French Helios 1A spy satellite system are being
> given access to political and economic secrets as part of a Franco-German
> agreement to compete with a commercial information agreement between the
> United States and Britain.

There is an Asian proverb saying that all crows of the world are
black.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 02:18:21 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Something else...
Message-ID: <361E4D81.2076@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>> I think freedom comes from order and knowing what to do with that
>> freedom comes from chaos. 
>
> Freedom comes from understanding what one can do standing alone,
> naked, in the middle of a wilderness. Everything else is a
> compromise of that.

I was thinking more along the lines of : an animal that has literal
freedom spends 99.9% of its time looking for food and avoiding
predators. The order we impose upon our lives by being social animals
give us a more satisfying type of freedom that is derived from leisure. 

What I see as the real problem is that as the degree of order is
increased the society becomes more like an anthill. Which I consider the
perfect example of a bioengineered police state. Kind of what corporate
America would like all of us citizens to be - predictable controllable
unquestioning undeviating uncreative underthethumb consumer units. A key
means to this end is eliminating cash and privacy. It's no here yet but
it's in process. I don't think it's a conspiratorial effort either -
it's more the result of widespread bad behavior. I'm rather stunned at
the blatant disregard our representatives display for the basic
liberties the moment these liberties seem inconvenient.

Mike

Don't trust your HW or your SW. There are soldier ant footprints
everywhere.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 17:39:03 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: The Cypherpunks Agenda
Message-ID: <199810090921.LAA12288@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

The reason for the people getting upset and saying shut up and write is the
fact that very few people are mentioning anything about the code.  The
politics discussed are sometimes reasons why we need more code but
unfortunately usually don't give you an idea of what to write.  Personally I
have sat down many times to my keyboard with a disk of code in one hand and
just stared blankly at the screen until giving up and reading the list with
a notebook in hand for any ideas.

I do believe in keeping the political content,  however you can see the
difference betwwen pointless dabate on clinton and debating on what project
should we devote our time to and what causes are we fighting for and how
many bananas a camel can carry.   This message isn't to stifle the ointless
debate it is to spur neww projects,   How do we combine our vast pool of
knowledge to actually produce results?

One funny thing though,  some people filter out anonymous messages that come
from the list,  what does that say about us believing in our own methods.  

- ---- Crey,  What a world I would live in if I really had a say. 

>So where is the _rest_ of the code?
>
>"Cypherpunks write code" is a mantra to shut up any discussion of which
>building blocks are important to write. And yet most of the mantra chanters
>are actually not writing useful or interesting code, just hacking away in
>their cubicles....
>
>Sad.
>
>
>--Tim May
>
>Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash.
>---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
>Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
>ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
>W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
>Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.
> 
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP Cyber-Knights Templar build 5.5.3ckt
Comment: KeyID: 0xF4D1901B
Comment: Fingerprint: DB49 2BFA 856F 0B7E  CB78 9C3E 0167 279D

iQEVAwUBNh3RUqKPqmf00ZAbAQEePAf9G/cDeeQRYtgMqcbSn+4LjqPgPYIsxARR
XMutCe6w84p86tQH4KlZMJDjdiYge6Mz+uC/s4C3K16nfJU2n/Ha+ZjOoAzhRg/1
HuZHxEElBt5Wl7FdzYWtT/OGTalYu1NAkOCEq5fKt20gHtGsSgmyVvdyLSLtGEte
Ni13807ETgbhH36TT9zusE4lenFEZ9PM+cslapdOzxRx2rJOuEMh1nowcufQ89mE
CWDI7mjPBdseKFUXGSPbvC1+FfeLQjFpQUjyp7ggs5AsbXElXOJUJ2VCFeOboGBI
5OK3yDzw04TjgEN7UnzatqebbSO9llu23sbuvs0Ng3/mpgZWeR9jIg==
=B+l0
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Shostack 
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 01:25:42 +0800
To: Steve Dunlop 
Message-ID: <19981009130500.A18749@weathership.homeport.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Wed, Oct 07, 1998 at 06:06:21PM -0500, Steve Dunlop wrote:

| The white paper on the MSDN web site says it uses
| DESX (no explaination as to what the X is) and an
| RSA public key algorithm to store the symmetric keys,
| which are random for each file.
| 
| So what's DESX?

DESX is where you xor the output of a des block with the key.  Has
some interesting properties which McCurley? showed in Crypto 97
proceedings.

Adam


-- 
"It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once."
					               -Hume





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 02:39:07 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Something else... (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810091820.NAA24888@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 10:53:05 -0700
> From: Michael Motyka 
> Subject: Re: Something else...

> >> I think freedom comes from order and knowing what to do with that
> >> freedom comes from chaos. 
> >
> > Freedom comes from understanding what one can do standing alone,
> > naked, in the middle of a wilderness. Everything else is a
> > compromise of that.
> 
> I was thinking more along the lines of : an animal that has literal
> freedom spends 99.9% of its time looking for food and avoiding
> predators. The order we impose upon our lives by being social animals
> give us a more satisfying type of freedom that is derived from leisure. 

Actualy most animals spend 60% or more asleep, only about 10% looking for
food (there are exceptions here for the smaller herbivores because of
scaling issues related to metabolism). The current estimate is that, for
example humans, in the wild spend only about 8 hours out of 40 is spent
looking for food.

> What I see as the real problem is that as the degree of order is
> increased the society becomes more like an anthill.

I agree, but I think it's a function of the form of government and not the
institution of government itself. A large part of it, which I've stated many
times, is that the vast majority of systems that people develop assume the
people are plug-n-play. That's a major shortcoming in  my mind. I believe
democracy has a chance to subvert that shortcoming but only if the
participants aren't primarily motivated by compromise, a base human
expression.

> Which I consider the
> perfect example of a bioengineered police state.

I'll agree biology has a lot to do with it if it's not recognized for the
shortcoming it is.

> Kind of what corporate
> America would like all of us citizens to be - predictable controllable
> unquestioning undeviating uncreative underthethumb consumer units.

The 'rational consumer' axiom in traditional economics is a perfect example
of how this becomes entrenched (even when it isn't accurate). That's sort of
the problem with government in that they want these absolute limits on
behaviour, yet so few behaviours are absolutely good or bad. Law sucks when
it deals with exceptions. Another aspect of failure in our current system is
that the law and its practitioners aren't unbiased, they have a vested in
interest in the outcome, not the principles.

> it's in process I don't think it's a conspiratorial effort either -
> it's more the result of widespread bad behavior. I'm rather stunned at
> the blatant disregard our representatives display for the basic
> liberties the moment these liberties seem inconvenient.

Your preaching to the choir...

One aspect that seems under appreciated is that as the population grows the
number of people who hold a particular view grow. Since their behaviours are
influenced by those views it begins to be expressed as a social movement
(perhaps not in the traditional view ala yippies for example) and even a
political one. The collective results of all these little actions can in
fact behave in a manner that is quite 'conpiracy' like.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Connectfree Admins" 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 21:26:47 +0800
To: 
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <0111b58341209a8WEB@www.telinco.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Sunder 
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 02:40:47 +0800
To: rms@gnu.org
Subject: Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code)
In-Reply-To: <199810071026.GAA20270@germs.dyn.ml.org>
Message-ID: <361E522D.1082C33C@brainlink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Richard Stallman wrote:

> Public domain gives person P the ability to make modified versions and
> give users no freedom in using them.  The result is that people in
> general have less freedom.

Untrue.  Person P may make proprietary versions of the program, however,
the program's users may simply chose to not use them and instead take
the original public domain program, write their own modifications as needed
and do what they will with them.  In fact, they may even develop a function
clone of Person P's program and put it back in the Public Domain if they
so chose.  

How does this restrict anyone?  Oh, they can't code you say?  Well, too bad,
if they want to use other people's code, let them learn.  If one choses to
learn to code, one frees himself.

Nobody is forcing those users to use Person P's code any more than
anyone is being forced to use Windoze 98.

Cypherpunks Write Code is something I believe in, and practice.   For
example, someone today needed to modify several bytes in a binary file
that got corrupted in transit.  Not having any sort of hex editor he asked
if I knew what I could use.  I told him to try gdb or adb and such, but
he wasn't able to, so I wrote the bit of code following this message.

Now, I could make this trivial bit of code proprietary and charge money for
it, but others could simply spend some time and write their own.  I could
make it GPL, and thus let everyone use it, but nobody would be able to
copy this code and incorporate it in their code if they didn't want to 
make their code GPL'ed.  So instead, I am making this available as
public domain.  Do what you like with it.  Hell, if you'd like go ahead
and modify it and GPL it, do so, but that won't stop anyone wishing to make
commercial versions of it from finding this original bit of code rather
than the GPL.  Nor will it stop anyone who just wants to use the code.

So what's the point?  As long as public domain software exists and can
be tracked down and use, it frees everyone.  GPL on the other hand does
not.  Sure, it frees the users, but limits the authors.

Of course the GPL has one advantage that you forgot to mention (or that
I haven't noticed.)  Should Microsoft decide to grab Linux and produce
Microsoft Linux (with or without the GNU utilities) they'd have to
produce their sources.

 --- twiddler.c ----->8 cut here 8<-------------------------------------



#include 
#include 

int main(int argc, char *argv[])
{
 FILE *myfile;
 long loc;
 unsigned char val[2];
 char *endptr;

 if (argc!=4)
   {
    printf("%s filename address value\n all values preceded by 0x are hex,\n \
 0 are octal, else decimal.\n address is 32 bit, value is 8 bit\n",argv[0]);
    exit(0);
   }

 errno=0;
 myfile=fopen(argv[1],"rb+");

 if (!myfile || errno) {fprintf(stderr,"Unable to open file:%s\n",argv[1]);
exit(1);}
 loc=strtol(argv[2],&endptr,0);
 val[0]=(unsigned char) strtol(argv[3],&endptr,0);

 fprintf(stderr,"write %d to file %s at %ld\n",val[0],argv[1],loc);

 fseek(myfile,loc,0); if (errno) {fprintf(stderr,"Unable to seek to %ld in file
%s\n",loc,argv[1]); exit(2);}
 fwrite(val,1,1,myfile); if (errno) {fprintf(stderr,"Unable to write %d to file
%s at %ld\n",val[0],argv[1],loc); exit(3);}
 fflush(myfile); if (errno) {fprintf(stderr,"Unable to flush file\n");
exit(4);}
 fclose(myfile); if (errno) {fprintf(stderr,"Got error on closing file\n");
exit(5);}

 return 0;
}




-- 

=====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos==============
.+.^.+.|       Sunder       |Prying open my 3rd eye.  So good to see |./|\.
..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were      |/\|/\
<--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run  |\/|\/
../|\..| "A toast to Odin,  |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/.
.+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were....            |.....
======================= http://www.sundernet.com ==========================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: associate@alpineforest.com
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 06:42:25 +0800
To: cypherpunks-unedited@toad.com
Subject: Associate Program
Message-ID: <76C492I2.19NC4W74@alpineforest.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 09:35:02 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.29: What's on Your Hard Drive That The Delete Didn't Delete?
Message-ID: <199810100115.SAA09632@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: "ama-gi ISPI" 
Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.29: What's on Your Hard Drive That The Delete Didn't Delete?
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 00:40:03 -0700
To: 

ISPI Clips 5.29: What's on Your Hard Drive That The Delete Didn't Delete?
News & Info from the Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI)
Friday October 9, 1998
ISPI4Privacy@ama-gi.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This From: The New York Times, October 8, 1998
http://www.nytimes.com

What's on Your Hard Drive?
If You Want Privacy, It Pays to Find Out What Data Your Computer Saves And
How to Erase Information That the Delete Button Hardly Touches
http://search.nytimes.com/search/daily/bin/fastweb?getdoc+site+iib-site+52+
0+wAAA+privacy


By
PETER H. LEWIS

For computer users, some of the more startling revelations in the Starr
report have nothing to do with sex.

Footnotes in the report from the Office of the Independent Counsel include
such phrases as "document recovered from Ms. Lewinsky's home computer,"
"e-mail retrieved from Catherine Davis's computer" and "deleted file from
Ms. Lewinsky's home computer."

One of the ways Kenneth W. Starr's investigators peered into the private
lives of their subjects was to peer into their computers. What they were
able to find, and the ease with which they found it, may prompt computer
users to re-evaluate their computer practices.

Word processing software, Web browsing software and electronic mail have
become integral to all sorts of communications, both professional and
personal. As a result, many people have files on their hard disks that they
wish to keep private, like love letters, confidential business documents or
financial data.

And many people have sensitive, confidential and potentially embarrassing
files in their computers that they do not know are there, either because
they think that the files have been erased or because they are unaware that
certain common programs on the computer automatically keep a log of what
the user does.

"Recovering files that were deleted from a computer directory is a trivial
process," said Joel R. Reidenberg, a professor at the Fordham University
School of Law in New York who specializes in privacy issues. He said a
related issue was the computer's creation of sensitive files that the user
often did not know were there in the first place.

"The user's Web browser will create files, unbeknownst to the user, that
record all their interactions," Professor Reidenberg said. "Many people
today know about cookie files, but the browser creates a history file as
well that keeps a record of the Web sites the user visits. And then there's
a cache file that sometimes even keeps copies of the pictures that have
been downloaded."

More obscure are the temporary files created by word processors, for
example, and the so-called swap files that an operating system creates as a
way to manage computer memory. These files often remain readable even if
the original files are erased.

In computers, being safe can sometimes lead to being sorry, as Oliver L.
North discovered in the Iran-contra investigation in the Reagan
Administration, when incriminating files he thought had been deleted were
later resurrected from network backup tapes. In the current Justice
Department investigation of the Microsoft Corporation, e-mail messages and
memorandums from long ago are being resurrected from computer disks and
cited as crucial evidence.

The great majority of computer users have little reason to believe that
their computer files will be scrutinized by law-enforcement agents,
corporate and government spies, or even special investigators. But what
about unscrupulous co-workers or curious children or computer thieves? What
confidential information resides on the hard disk of the computer that was
donated to charity, sold at a yard sale or accidentally left on the
commuter train?

Examples abound of sensitive information going out the door when government
agencies, pharmacies, doctors' offices and other businesses donate or sell
used computers without erasing the computers' memories.

Last year, for example, a woman in Nevada bought a used computer from an
Internet auction company and was surprised to find that it contained names,
addresses, Social Security numbers and prescription information for 2,000
people, including people being treated for AIDS, alcoholism and mental
illnesses. A pharmacy had failed to erase the information when it sold the
computer.

The rise in the number of computer thefts and the increased sharing of
computers in the home are confronting consumers with security issues that
in the past were issues only for big corporations, banks, the military and
government agencies, said Steve Solomon, chief executive of Citadel
Technology Inc., a security software company in Dallas whose products
include Winshield and Folderbolt. "It's moving down into the small office
and home office markets, to schools and to home computer users," he said.

How does one keep confidential information private? And when the
information is no longer needed, how does one make sure that it is
completely erased? Both questions involve a combination of good computer
security policies and good security software.

The software is the easy part. Creating and sticking with good security
habits is the hard part.

"Technology exists today to protect individual privacy for as long as the
individual chooses to keep the information private," said Scott Schnell,
senior vice president of marketing at RSA Data Security of San Mateo,
Calif.

Computer users today have access to inexpensive software tools that can
encrypt the contents of a file (including images), an e-mail message or
even the entire contents of a computer so thoroughly that it can never be
read by someone else in our lifetimes. Other programs can shred unwanted
files so completely that no one can recover them. But very few people use
such security tools.

Computers are good at keeping secrets. Too good, in fact. The secrets can
reside on a computer, and on a computer network, long after the user
deletes them. The files are forgotten, but not gone.

Deleting a file does not really delete the file. It merely hides it from
view so it no longer shows up in a directory of files. It's like getting an
unlisted telephone number. The listing may not appear in the phone
directory, but the phone can still ring if someone knows the right number.

When a user deletes a file, the computer stops listing it in the file
directory and marks the disk space as available for reuse. Another file may
eventually be written atop the same space, obliterating any traces of the
original. But as hard disk capacities swell into the gigabytes, the space
may not be overwritten for a long, long time.

In that limbo period when the deleted file is undead, any moderately
skilled computer user can locate, restore and read the deleted file by
using such commands as "undelete" or "unerase," which are common features
of many software utilities.

The computer's ability to remember deleted files is most often a good
thing, especially when important files have been deleted by accident. Every
day, computer technicians get frantic calls from people who have
inadvertently erased the boss's speech or the big presentation due the next
morning, or who have children who have erased those boring Quicken folders
to make room on the disk for games.

At those moments, being able to resurrect the files from the dead seems
like a miracle.

There are a number of utility programs available that have an "unerase"
capability, to be used both in emergencies and as a precaution against
accidents. Examples include Norton Utilities from the Symantec Corporation.

But as with most tools, "unerase" programs can be dangerous in the wrong
hands.

To truly erase a file and prevent it from being recovered, one must write
over it, or wipe it.

There are several utility programs available that enable the user to
overwrite a single file or the entire disk, or anything in between. Such
programs typically have apocalyptic names, such as Shredder, Flame File and
Burn. Similar disk-wiping tools are often included in PC utility programs
and encryption programs, but others are available for downloading without
charge from the Internet.

These programs typically hash over the designated disk space with
meaningless patterns of ones and zeroes, instead of the meaningful patterns
of ones and zeroes that represent the original information. That process
renders the deleted file unreadable in most cases.

The key phrase is "in most cases." Just as with encryption, there are
people working just as hard to recover wiped files as there are people
working to wipe them. Law-enforcement agencies and spies have developed
ways to reverse a simple, one-pass wipe with ones and zeroes and retrieve
the original file. So the Federal Government requires that sensitive files
be wiped many times with random characters, which, in theory, obliterates
the original file and makes it unrecoverable.

Unless, of course, the file has already been copied onto backup tapes. In
the digital world, the original file may be shredded, while one or more
perfect copies can exist elsewhere.

An even more bulletproof way to render files unreadable is to encrypt them.

Encryption scrambles a disk or file, including pictures (or a telephone
conversation, or a credit card sent over the Internet) so it can be opened
and read only by the person holding the proper key, or password. The
strength of the encryption is often measured by the length of the key,
which is in turn measured in bits. In general, each additional bit of key
length doubles the amount of effort needed for unauthorized users to break
the key.

Even weak encryption (with a 40-bit key length, for example) is sufficient
to deter most casual snoops. Breaking a 56-bit key requires computing
resources that are beyond the reach of all but the most determined code
breakers, and even then it can require days of sustained attacks by a
supercomputer just to crack one e-mail message. (The Government's National
Security Agency, by far the most formidable group of code breakers on the
planet, is thought to be able to break 56-bit keys in a much shorter time,
said Enrique Salem, a chief technology officer at Symantec, whose products
include Disk Lock, Norton Your Eyes Only, and Norton Secret Stuff.

Some encryption programs available today use 128-bit keys, which are
"infinitely unbreakable, at least in our lifetimes, even taking into
consideration the predictable advances in computing power," said Schnell of
RSA. In other words, it is more secure than the strongest physical vault
ever built. Not even the National Security Agency is believed to have the
ability to break a 128-bit key.

And then there is e-mail. People type all sorts of embarrassing,
confidential or intemperate words in e-mail in the mistaken belief that
such messages are private. In reality, messages sent by e-mail are less
secure than messages scribbled on a postcard.

The way the Internet mail system works, an e-mail message passes through
several exchange points, or nodes, on its way to the recipient's computer.
The system administrator at each handoff point can in theory read the
message, copy it, reroute it or tamper with it. If the message originates
or terminates in a corporate computer system, chances are high that a copy
will persist in the company's backup tapes or disk for days, at least.

In the end, there are only two ways to keep information confidential in the
digital age. One is to use strong encryption. The other is never to write
it down or speak it in the first place.


PRIVACY PROTECTION:

Who knows what secrets lurk on your hard drive? With luck, and with the
following security programs, only you do.

PGP 6.0
(Windows 95, 98 and NT, and Macintosh OS 7.5.3 and newer; free for
individual, noncommercial use) Philip R. Zimmermann's Pretty Good Privacy,
or PGP, is one of the world's most widely used encryption programs for
personal computers, so good, in fact, that the United States Government
contends that it is as potent a military weapon as a jet fighter or a
cruise missile.

NORTON YOUR EYES ONLY 4.1
(Windows 95, 98 and NT; about $75; (800) 441-7234.) Norton Your Eyes Only
performs a variety of password-protected security functions. It can be set
to blank the screen and lock the computer if the user steps away for a
minute or to prevent unauthorized users from booting the machine.

RSA SECURPC
(Windows 95, 98 and NT; $59; Security Dynamics Technologies; (800)
732-8743.)
Intended more for small office use, SecurPC links with the Windows Explorer
file management system to automatically and transparently lock disks and
files with 128-bit encryption, but it allows the keys to be shared with
administrators.

COOKIE CRUSHER
(Windows 95, 98 and NT; $15 shareware; www.zdnet.com/swlib,
www.shareware.com, etc.) Cookies are small files that a Web site installs
on your hard drive. The cookie can contain technical and personal
information, including a history of the Web pages you have visited. These
utilities enable the user to accept or reject cookies.

BCWIPE WINDOWS
(Windows 95, 98 and NT; $15 shareware; www. download.com,
www.zdnet.com/swlib and others.)    For those who prefer not to use an
encryption package, BCWipe provides military-grade file and disk wiping to
make sure that deleted files are really erased.

Copyright 1998 The New York Times Company

--------------------------------NOTICE:------------------------------
ISPI Clips are news & opinion articles on privacy issues from
all points of view; they are clipped from local, national and international
newspapers, journals and magazines, etc. Inclusion as an ISPI Clip
does not necessarily reflect an endorsement of the content or opinion
by ISPI. In compliance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed free without profit or payment for non-profit research
and educational purposes only.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

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of Privacy Issues" (ISPI). To receive "ISPI Clips" on a regular bases
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enter [Your Name] into the ISPI Clips list: [Your e-mail address]" to:
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(Canada). ISPI operates on a not-for-profit basis, accepts no
government funding and takes a global perspective.

ISPI's mandate is to conduct & promote interdisciplinary research
into electronic, personal and  financial privacy with a view toward
helping ordinary people understand the degree of privacy they have
with respect to government, industry and each other and to likewise
inform them about techniques to enhance their privacy.

But, none of this can be accomplished without your kind and
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you please help us continue this important work by becoming an "ISPI
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 09:35:48 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Privacy, Other Issues Post Difficulty for E-Commerce Meeting
Message-ID: <199810100115.SAA09659@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Privacy, Other Issues Post Difficulty for E-Commerce Meeting
Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 09:38:25 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  USIA
http://www.usia.gov/current/news/latest/98100807.clt.html?/products/washfile
/newsitem.shtml

08 October 1998 

PRIVACY, OTHER ISSUES POSE DIFFICULTY FOR E-COMMERCE
MEETING 

(U.S. position outlined at OECD conference in Ottawa)  (840)
By Bruce Odessey
USIA Staff Correspondent

Ottawa -- As ministers from industrialized countries met to work out
ways for promoting electronic commerce, differences persisted on a
number of issues, especially privacy.

When the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD)
Ministerial Conference in Ottawa ends October 9, either the ministers
will produce a communique demonstrating some sort of agreement or the
Canadian minister presiding will produce a communique demonstrating
continued disagreement.

In an October 8 address to the conference, U.S. Secretary of Commerce
William Daley called privacy "the make-or-break issue for all of
electronic commerce." At issue are the potential for abuse of credit
card numbers and confidential medical and other private information by
unscrupulous businesses.

Daley was confident that the privacy and other consumer protection
issues would be resolved.

In a panel session, President Clinton's adviser Ira Magaziner
described the U.S. vision for protecting consumer privacy on the
Internet, a vision reliant on industry self-regulation, not government
regulation.

In each country, he said, some independent private sector organization
would develop a privacy code of conduct and authorize a graphic seal
of approval for web sites that pledge to follow that code. The
participating web site would have to notify potential buyers about
what information it would collect about the buyer and how it would use
it. The buyer would have the choice not to make a purchase under those
conditions.

In addition, Magaziner said, consumers would have the ability to
settle complaints about privacy abuse through the organization, which
would also conduct routine audits to assure compliance by its web site
participants.

Already 70 percent of relevant U.S. businesses conducting electronic
commerce have agreed to participate in this program once it becomes
established in the next few months, he said.

Magaziner compared the U.S. approach with the European Union (EU)
approach, which establishes government privacy regulation from the
beginning. In fact, a EU privacy directive scheduled to enter into
force in two weeks, prohibiting flows of electronic data about EU
nationals to countries that have no similar regulation, threatens some
disruption of data flows to U.S. companies. Secretary Daley said he
remains hopeful the two sides will avert any disruption.

"To be frank, we must succeed or millions of transactions between the
United States and Europe may be blocked," he said.

Magaziner argued that the U.S. vision of an alliance of independent
organizations for protecting consumer privacy operating in different
countries would achieve the flexibility required for the rapidly
evolving business of electronic commerce in a way that governments
could not.

"None of us know where this is headed," he said. "We have to be very
cautious before we act" to impose government regulation that could
stifle the expansion of this new technology soon after its birth.

The OECD secretariat draft proposal on privacy recognizes the
different approaches to privacy and other consumer protection issues
-- government regulation and industry self-regulation -- and suggests
ways for both to exist. While some EU representatives grumbled that
the OECD draft pays too little heed to consumers, Secretary Daley was
pleased.

"I welcome this commitment to work together to find common ground on
this issue," Daley said. "We believe that our self-regulatory approach
can co-exist with approaches taken by other governments.

"To be honest, it won't be easy," he said. "But with careful thought
and hard work, we can get the job done."

Privacy is but one in a set of issues concerned about building
consumer trust in electronic commerce. Conference participants
acknowledged that the level of trust remains low for most consumers,
who hesitate to commit their credit card numbers to cyberspace.

One of those issues concerns authentication of information exchanged
by parties to an e-commerce deal; another concerns enforcement of
contracts; another concerns the use of encryption for authentication
and privacy. No one expects final answers to emerge at Ottawa.

Another area of controversy the ministers are tackling concerns
taxation of e-commerce transactions. At an October 8 panel, U.S.
Internal Revenue Service Commissioner Charles Rossotti said a
discussion the day earlier among government and business participants
pointed to some consensus emerging at least about broad principles.

First, he said, there was consensus that definition was needed about
where products delivered by the Internet are consumed, especially for
intangible products like services.

Second, he said, participants wanted to promote the availability of
electronic taxpayer services, including electronic tax filing and
provision of tax information and guidance on the Internet.

Third, he said, taxes should be collected in a way that does not
disadvantage those who comply and tax authorities should aim to
prevent cheating by electronic means.

Fourth, he said, existing international tax rules should be clarified
for their application to electronic commerce, especially potential
problems caused by the location of information servers.
----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 09:35:32 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Canadian Military Ready for Y2K Meltdown
Message-ID: <199810100115.SAA09687@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Canadian Military Ready for Y2K Meltdown
Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 10:18:46 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  NOW On Communications
http://www.now.com/issues/current/News/tech.html

Militia readies for millennium meltdown 
2000 cyberglitch the major concern for Canadian forces 

By PATRICK CAIN 

Preparing for a civil emergency resulting from mass computer collapse on
January 1, 2000, has become the first priority of the Canadian military, a
general told a group of Toronto-area reservists in Meaford Sunday. 

That means the military is taking the millennium bug so seriously that its
worst-case plan, Operation Abacus, is a higher priority than Canada's part
in the NATO force in Bosnia-Herzegovina, where 1,319 Canadian soldiers (at
the moment, most from Ontario) are helping enforce the Dayton Accord. 

"Some people argue that it is the first priority amongst many priorities,"
brigadier general Walt Holmes, who commands ground forces in Ontario, tells
NOW Monday.  

"Our operational commitments in Bosnia will carry on, and so our soldiers
who are either deployed to or preparing for those operations will be given
the same support. 

"One can never anticipate what else may happen in the world to cause us to
have to deploy soldiers, so the bottom line is, if nothing else from a
contingency-planning point of view (emerges) it's the top priority with the
Canadian Forces." 

The problem, often referred to as Y2K, stems from the way computers express
the year portion of a numerical date, like 12/31/99. 

When the code that forms the foundation of modern computer software was
being written in the 50s and 60s, programmers decided not to use
then-precious computer space for the first two digits of the year. 

Because computers working on these assumptions aren't aware of centuries or
millennia, they will decide that January 1, 2000, is actually January 1,
1900. Because this disrupts the computer's sense of chronological sequence,
it can cause chaos and system breakdown.  

Since computer systems with six-digit dates control everything from
electricity systems to emergency dispatch systems to air traffic control,
companies, utilities and governments are pouring money and time into
finding and
fixing the bug. 

Too vast 

But because this involves scanning miles upon miles of computer code, some
argue that the task is simply too vast and intricate to be accomplished. 

Rotting food, cranky nuclear reactors, banking systems run amok -- a few
hours in the world of Y2K prophecy is enough to make you think a bunker in
Algoma full of canned beans might be the best idea after all. 

Most things we depend on depend on a computer chip somewhere, and that
includes deep freezes, nuclear reactors, food distribution systems, banking
systems, phone switching systems, wage and pension cheques, taxes, and
building management systems without which high-rise office buildings -- and
therefore Bay Street -- can't function.  

"I can't make you feel 100 per cent confident that everything is going to
function on January 1 of the year 2000," Ted Clark, the vice-president of
Ontario Hydro's Y2K project, told an alarmed parliamentary committee in April.
Hydro says it has 600 people working on the problem. 

But we don't need to wait for the end of the millennium to watch the
problem unfold -- Y2K glitches are already happening. Earlier this year,
the New York State liquor licence system crashed spectacularly when
officials tried to enter a licence that would expire in 2000. More
recently, the systems of several hospitals in Pennsylvania crashed when
staff tried to enter a medical appointment in 2000.  

At a conference in Ottawa last week, Toronto-based senior army officers
argued for a mobilization plan to deal with military involvement in a
possible crisis. 

Mobilization plan 

"The recommendation from us is that we would like to see some form of
commitment to ensuring that the reserves are able to respond," Holmes
observes.  

"We just said some sort of mobilization plan, to allow us to determine what
reserves we may get. (That would correspond to) Level Two mobilization." 

(In Canadian military doctrine, four stages of mobilization exist -- Stage
1 is the existence of the armed forces, Stage 2 is deployment of the armed
forces in its existing organization, Stage 3 is military expansion in an
emergency, and Stage 4 is national mobilization in war.)  

Among the options the military is considering is the stockpiling of food
and generators in armouries against a serious emergency.  

"As to where they're going to go, and what the end result will be, we don't
know yet," Holmes says. "It  depends on the perceived threat, as we get
closer to the date."  

Persistent rumours that Christmas leave in 1999 will be cancelled for
regular soldiers are premature, Holmes says. ("They'll probably wait until
everybody's made plans, and do it then," quips military critic Scott Taylor.) 

One important issue is what legal category military involvement in a crisis
would fall into. The armed forces recognize two types of domestic
operations -- unarmed assistance to civil authorities, which mostly
involves coping with natural disasters like the February ice storm or the
Manitoba flood, and "aid to the civil power," which
implies the potential use of force. Oka and the imposition of the War
Measures Act in 1970 would fall into this latter category. 

 Humanitarian  relief 

"The emphasis would be on domestic operations and humanitarian relief, if
required," Holmes says. "We are the force of last resort, and if something
happens, we are there to be called upon, but the focus is clearly on
domestic (humanitarian) operations." 

Toronto-area army reservists in Meaford last weekend were told that
riot-control training, which the militia in Toronto last underwent on a
large scale in the late 80s and early 90s in the aftermath of the Oka
crisis, is not on the agenda for now. 

 NOW OCTOBER 8-14, 1998 

 (c) 1998 NOW Communications Inc.
 NOW and NOW Magazine and the
 NOW design are protected through
trademark registration. 
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




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To subscribe or unsubscribe, email:
     majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com
with the message:
     (un)subscribe ignition-point email@address
**********************************************
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Lucky Green" 
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 11:22:41 +0800
To: 
Subject: [SF Bay Area] SCSI controller/PCI person?
Message-ID: <004c01bdf3f9$e8d01840$33248bd0@luckylaptop.c2.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



If any of the Bay Area Cypherpunks here know of somebody or are themselves
knowledgeable in SCSI controller firmware or design, PCI boards, or fast
embedded systems crypto, please get in touch with me for a chat.

Thanks,
--Lucky Green 
  PGP 5.x  encrypted email preferred




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 12:00:22 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: EZ Wiretap Server
Message-ID: <199810100328.XAA21798@camel14.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Thanks to Sean Donelan, see a point and click
CALEA wiretap server:

   http://www.newnet.com/products/win/calea.html






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 12:37:19 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: EZ Wiretap Server
Message-ID: <199810100419.AAA20079@panix7.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



   >   From: John Young 
   >
   >   Thanks to Sean Donelan, see a point and click
   >   CALEA wiretap server:
   >
   >      http://www.newnet.com/products/win/calea.html

That's disgusting.

   o Capacity for up to 512 simultaneous call content intercepts on a single call basis 
   o Capability to incorporate FBI "punchlist" items
   o Supports Lawfully Authorized Electronic Surveillance (LAES) delivery features 
   o Delivers intercepted call content and call identifying in formation simultaneously to
     five authorized law enforcement agency collection systems 
   o Supports three service categories: non-call associated, call associated and
     content surveillance 

If anyone can get a hold of functional characteristics manuals
for the product, lemme know, I'd like to have a copy.
---guy

   "Punchlist"? Keyword monitoring?




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Brook Powers 
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 13:35:23 +0800
To: William Knowles 
Subject: Re: A Scud in California!
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199810100512.WAA11994@kizmiaz.dis.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



This sounds like it could be a dis.org project. Maybe Phon-e and HummerMan
are conspiring to rid us of Carolyn in a spectacular way next August.

Anyone know the range^h^h^h^h^h distance from Berkeley to New Mexico?

At 08:37 PM 10/8/98 -0700, William Knowles wrote:
>>From another one of the several lists I'm on, I figured someone
>might know who the new pseudo-proud owner of a fully-operational
>SS-1C Scud missle *WITH* moblie launcher is...
>
>Cheers!
>
>William Knowles
>erehwon@dis.org
>
>
> Intelligence, N. 86, 5 October 1998, p. 12
>
>
> USA
>
> THE SCUD THAT DIDN'T GET AWAY
>
> At "Intelligence", we're taking bets that you won't hear about
> the unidentified British firm which used an unnamed British
> freighter to import a fully-operational SS-1C Scud missile --
> complete with launcher, but missing its warhead -- into the
> United States.  According to a 25 September report in the
> "Washington Times", special investigators from HM Customs and
> Excise have been asked to determine how paperwork sent with the
> system came to be falsified, but they're probably going to run
> into ... the Pentagon because the Scud missile and its mobile
> transporter-erector launcher were seized on 2 September by the
> US Customs Service at Port Hueneme, California, about 56 km.
> north of Los Angeles and ... next door to the US Navy Point
> Mugu Pacific Missile Range, and ... the closest military port
> to the Vandenburg US Air Force Base where all classified US
> military launches take place.
>
> The Russian-designed, Czech-manufactured missile system was
> licensed for importation by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and
> Firearms (ATF), but ... it was wrongly described.  Although
> addressed to a wealthy -- but so far unnamed (and bets are he
> will never be named) -- US citizen, who is regarded as a bona
> fide weapons collector rather than an arms dealer, the missile
> system had not been made inoperable as required by import
> rules.  This is, of course, of interest to the Pentagon.  "This
> is a full-blown missile," stated John Hensley, a senior agent
> of US Customs Service in Los Angeles.  "The only thing missing
> is the warhead."  The launch chassis is a MAZ-543 truck,
> commonly used by former Soviet and Warsaw Pact forces.  "The
> guidance system was totally intact and the engine was ready to
> go," Mr. Hensley said.  "All you needed to do was strap on a
> garbage can full of C-4 high-explosive and you had a weapon."
> The guidance system and engine would, of course, be of intense
> interest to Pentagon intelligence, and the Israeli Mossad,
> particularly if the weapon is a later date or recent model.
>
> Hensley said the buyer, who lives in Palo Alto, had previously
> purchased a Scud missile that had been properly demilitarized.
> Under US law, such weapons may be imported, provided they are
> first cut up with a blowtorch so that they can never be
> reassembled.  But in this case, in an effort to fool customs
> officials, a photograph of the first -- cut up -- missile to be
> imported was attached to the illegal -- intact -- system, which
> was seized on 2 September.  If the "buyer" really wanted his
> missile, then the San Francisco Bay, which Palo Alto overlooks,
> is a much better port of entry.  Bets at "Intelligence" are
> also out on the "buyer" being associated with the military-
> funded Stanford Research Institute (SRI) or similar Pentagon-
> dependent firms in nearby Silicon Valley.
>
> COMMENT  --  The SS-1C Scud is a liquid-fueled missile which is
> among the most widely deployed weapons in the world.  It is in
> service in 16 nations.  Iraq's military forces were able to
> extend the range of the missile ("with baling wire and
> plywood", according to certain specialists), and used it
> extensively during the 1991 Gulf war.  International transfers
> of such missiles, which normally have a range of 300 km., are
> banned under the Missile Technology Control Regime.  Although
> the major media suggested the seizure would embarrass the
> Clinton administration, currently engaged in a major
> international diplomatic effort to halt exports of weapons of
> mass destruction and missile-delivery systems by Russia and
> China to the Middle East, it would seem more likely that the
> affair will "drag out indefinitely" in a California court,
> unless an appropriate "buyer" can be "sacrificed" publicly.
>
> ---------------------------------------------
>
> Olivier Schmidt,
> Editor of "Intelligence"
> 
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: HyperReal-Anon 
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 09:40:50 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <68a7d52256a663771ea3a03bfe2a04b3@anonymous>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>HOW MUCH CODE DID 'CYPHERPUNK' TIM MAY EVER WRITE?

How much code have you ever written?




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 08:45:12 +0800
To: postmaster@request.net
Subject: Associate Program
Message-ID: <199810100015.CAA30363@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



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>Received: (from majordom@localhost) by toad.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA04166 for cypherpunks-unedited-outgoing; Fri, 9 Oct 1998 14:58:00 -0700 (PDT)
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>To: cypherpunks-unedited@toad.com
>From: associate@alpineforest.com
>Subject: Associate Program
>Organization: Alpineforest.com
>Message-Id: <76C492I2.19NC4W74@alpineforest.com>
>Date: 	Fri, 9 Oct 1998 17:57:31 -0400
>Sender: owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
>Precedence: bulk
>X-Mailing-List: cypherpunks@algebra.com
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>Status: RO
>X-Status: 
>
>
>
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: KCzzzzz@aol.com
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 17:42:02 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: please include me
Message-ID: <9ab3eae1.361f267e@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Lets do it all again.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: KCzzzzz@aol.com
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 17:42:56 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: ok
Message-ID: <88d2833a.361f26b9@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



list




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Joseph 'Anonymous' Howe" 
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 17:13:48 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: HOW MUCH CODE DID 'CYPHERPUNK' TIM MAY EVER WRITE?
Message-ID: <199810100855.FAA30538@privacy.nb.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




HyperReal-Anon wrote:
> 
> >HOW MUCH CODE DID 'CYPHERPUNK' TIM MAY EVER WRITE?
> 
> How much code have you ever written?

Quite a bit actually. I recently upgraded to a dual pentium II 400 and
I wanted to take advantage of the 64 bit capability (2x32 = 64, right)
so I've just finished the first beta of the AOL 64 bit port.

The question of Tim May's contribution to cypherpunks keeps coming up.
I noticed from the comments that the original AOL8 code base was written
by Tim May.

I hope that clears that up.

-- an anonymous AOL64 beta user




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Joseph 'Anonymous' Howe" 
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 23:27:32 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Here we go again...
Message-ID: <199810101455.LAA03704@privacy.nb.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 15:14:17 -0800
From: Greg Galbraith 
Subject:  Just in time for Halloween

WARNING TO PARENTS:

A form of tattoo called "Blue Star" is being sold to school children.

It is a small piece of paper containing a blue star. They are the size of a
pencil eraser and each star contains traces of Lysergic Acid Deithylamide
(LSD).

The drug is absorbed through the skin simply by handling the paper. They
are also brightly colored paper tattoos resembling postage stamps that
have the pictures of the following on them:
              Superman       Mickey Mouse         Butterflies
              Clowns         Disney Characters    Bart Simpson

Each one is wrapped in foil.  This is a new way of selling LSD by appealing
to young children.  These are laced with drugs.  If your child gets any of
the above, do not handle them. These are known to react quickly and
some are laced with strychnine, which may cause irreversible brain damage in
some cases. The drug is addictive and, in the quantities contained in the
above items, can cause children to become additcts.

Please feel free to distribute this article within your community and work
place.


FROM:          J. O'Donnell, Danbury
          Hospital, Outpatient Chemical Dependency
          Treatment Service

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please copy and post!  Give to friends. Send copies to schools.
This is growing faster than we can train parents and professionals.


                                   Many Thanks,

                                         Val

Val G. Armstrong
Assistant to Director
Rehabilitation Administration Program
University of San Francisco
PH: (415) 422-2532
Fax:(415) 422-2551
Internet: armstrongv@usfca.edu






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 18:58:20 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: No Subject
In-Reply-To: <199810100855.FAA30538@privacy.nb.ca>
Message-ID: <199810101045.MAA21635@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




> HyperReal-Anon wrote:
> > 
> > >HOW MUCH CODE DID 'CYPHERPUNK' TIM MAY EVER WRITE?

I suppose the cyphernomicon doesn't count as furthering the cause to
you?

Anon




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "X" 
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 05:16:00 +0800
To: 
Subject: RE:
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <000001bdf490$59035320$8d2580d0@xasper8d>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I know who anonymous is...  didn't you write "Primary Colors?"  

~> -----Original Message-----
~> PS. there is someone on this list who knows who
~> i am. yes there is someone who knows who anon
~> posters are. we fucking hate you and am waiting 
~> for you to take the trap and we will reveal your
~> identity scumbag. 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "James A. Donald" 
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 07:05:59 +0800
To: Matthew James Gering 
Subject: RE: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A193A7A33@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
Message-ID: <199810102245.PAA21230@proxy4.ba.best.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



    --
At 02:36 AM 10/9/98 -0700, Matthew James Gering wrote:
> Not really, the state holds a monopoly on "legal" force,
> whereas the Mafia and other black-market organizations do
> not. What is interesting is they use force often because
> they cannot use the government legal system to arbitrate
> their disputes.

It has been a very long time since we had an armed  conflict
between one major mafia type organization and another in the
US.

It appears to me that they have a problem because they cannot
resolve their disputes in public, thus it is hard to tell the
difference between an oppressive mafia organization that
mistreats its clients, and a legitimate mafia organization
that protects its clients.  However the government dispute
resolution apparatus does not possess any special wisdom that
the mafia dispute resolution apparatus lacks.

By and large, mafias seem to be less evil than governments,
and perform fewer violent, oppressive, and flagrantly unjust
acts than governments, and are less prone to expensive and
destructive wars.   This probably reflects the fact that such
actions by mafia chiefs are far more likely to get the mafia
chief killed, than similar acts by governments are likely to
get the ruler killed.

One might perhaps argue that some notable mafias in the US
are worse than the US government, though I have never heard
of them asking for fifty percent of someone's income.
However clearly no mafia in the US, or indeed anywhere, has
ever been as bad as any of the more objectionable
governments. 

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     FwiAHWNbE9PK8jomcmlEZQlBYbPYs5IhxFnAPjN2
     4QU3gWdu2/5C3xghqUfLx5inM+SHUn29tmXbz/wWO
-----------------------------------------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because 
of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this 
right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.


http://www.jim.com/jamesd/      James A. Donald




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "James A. Donald" 
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 07:03:35 +0800
To: Steve Mynott 
Subject: Re: GPL & commercial software, the critical distinction (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A193A7A31@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
Message-ID: <199810102245.PAA21253@proxy4.ba.best.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



    --
On Thu, Oct 08, 1998 at 04:14:32PM -0700, Matthew James
Gering wrote:
> >  The Mafia has had two primary characteristics:  a) the
> > use of force

At 10:24 AM 10/9/98 +0100, Steve Mynott wrote:
> wouldn't this characteristic define the mafia as a "state"
> to some degree?

A state is merely a mafia that has succeeded in crushing its
competitors by force.

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     PhKk4RhYVNaeZPogdcsq1rhljgRx/8xPW3ERa+RZ
     4HqTzfVhadbFtw7OnMn+adlAQibN0JlmTgUmw22Wt
-----------------------------------------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because 
of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this 
right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.


http://www.jim.com/jamesd/      James A. Donald




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "James A. Donald" "James A. Donald" 
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 07:03:23 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: <199810102245.PAA21305@proxy4.ba.best.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> > You cannot have monopoly (in the sense of the power to
> > extract monopoly profits) except by state intervention as
> > has been proven by experience time and time again.

At 11:06 AM 10/8/98 -0500, Jim Choate wrote:
> Examine history with an unbiased eye.

I have provided specific examples from history.  You have
told us that various undefined markets in unspecified places
at unspecified times were monopolized by unspecified big
companies.

If these monopolies were rampaging all over the place, your
really should be able to name them, and show that specific
named monopoly companes were able to extract specific
identified monopoly profits.

> Incorrect. I have listed several examples (eg
> meat-processing in the 1920's) where the resultant
> involvement of the government came *AFTER* (not before as
> you claim) there was evidence of wide spread abuse of the
> consumer and the employee of those producters.

In what country?  Ruritania?

What was the name of the evil monopoly that dominated the
meat processing industry?

What were their excess profits?

And if they were making excess profits, what stopped any man
and his dog from setting up in business cutting up cattle?

(Unless, of course, it was the government that stopped any
man from slaughtering cattle.)

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     qszZcMydwBnWQ3Fd1G+pG0KLz7KIkE6RINedm82c
     4PzuGOaB00Ogh6kc9Q6PK3bb9CQAITF9Jqzdoy+G7
-----------------------------------------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because 
of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this 
right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.


http://www.jim.com/jamesd/      James A. Donald




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ian Briggs 
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 09:45:40 +0800
To: "Joseph 'Anonymous' Howe" 
Subject: Re: Here we go again...
In-Reply-To: <199810101455.LAA03704@privacy.nb.ca>
Message-ID: <4.1.19981010181458.016c9080@deepwell.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Bullshit
5 yard penalty.



>> form of tattoo called "Blue Star" is being sold to school children.


Search for "Urban Myth Blue Star"
or

http://www.lycaeum.org/drugs/synthetics/lsd/FAQ-LSD-Tattoo.html


>>Some are laced with strychnine

http://www.lycaeum.org/drugs/synthetics/lsd/strychnine_fla.html
http://www.lycaeum.org/drugs/synthetics/lsd/strychnine.html



Luv
ian




Welcome to 1984
as with all goverment projects, its a bit late 
and slightly overbudget
	-IB.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 03:51:16 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <19981010192430.25602.qmail@hades.rpini.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> >HOW MUCH CODE DID 'CYPHERPUNK' TIM MAY EVER WRITE?
>
> How much code have you ever written?

A DECENT AMOUNT. THE CRYPTO APPS I CREATED ARE SOMEWHAT UNIQUE,
SO IF I MENTIONED THEM YOU MIGHT FIGURE OUT WHO I AM.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Dave Emery 
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 10:10:00 +0800
To: Anonymous 
Subject: Re: DESX
In-Reply-To: <199810102206.AAA06060@replay.com>
Message-ID: <19981010215151.A628@die.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Sun, Oct 11, 1998 at 12:06:14AM +0200, Anonymous wrote:
> | So what's DESX?
> 
> DESX is a modification of DES which uses a 64+56+64 bit key, with
> what is called "pre- and post-whitening".  Specifically, break the key
> into three pieces, 64 bit K1, 56 bit K2, 64 bit K3.  Then DESX is
> defined by:
> 
> 	C = K1 xor DES (K2, K3 xor P)
> 
> where P is plaintext, C is ciphertext, and DES (K, P) is the DES
> encryption of P under key K.
> 
> The encryption then has three steps:
> 
> 	- XOR the input with K3
> 	- DES encrypt that with K2
> 	- XOR the result with K1
> 
> The first and last steps are called "whitening" because by xoring with
> a random value, any structure is destroyed.  White light is a uniform
> and unstructured mixture of all colors.
> 

	Anybody have any estimate as to how much actual strength this
adds to DES ?  How would one break it in a practical cracker machine ?





-- 
	Dave Emery N1PRE,  die@die.com  DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass. 
PGP fingerprint = 2047/4D7B08D1 DE 6E E1 CC 1F 1D 96 E2  5D 27 BD B0 24 88 C3 18




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 04:34:34 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



PS. there is someone on this list who knows who
i am. yes there is someone who knows who anon
posters are. we fucking hate you and am waiting 
for you to take the trap and we will reveal your
identity scumbag.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 13:55:52 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: A Poll / A Thousand Lies (satire)
Message-ID: <199810110537.WAA18773@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: "Tom Simmons" 
Subject: IP: A Poll / A Thousand Lies (satire)
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 11:48:22 -0700
To: "Ignition Point" 

Editor,
I took my own cross-sectional, wholly "scientific" poll on
Clinton's impeachment/resignation. In order to be truly
"scientific", I followed these rules:
1) Choose a densely populated area of a major city in order to
get a poll result that is not one-sided.
2) There are 25 known minority cultures in the U.S., including,
in "random" order, but not limited to Indian, African, Mexican,
Oriental, Caucasian, gray wolf, spotted owl, and grizzly bear. In
order to ensure that minorities are not treated as minorities,
enforce strict parameters of 96 percent combined minority and 4
percent Caucasian.
3) Eliminate the following from the poll to preclude prejudice:
a.) anyone who did not vote for Clinton. It would not be fair to
include those who are obviously biased already.
b.) anyone who thinks a Newt Gingrich is a slimy lizard.
c.) anyone who doesn't think  Newt Gingrich is a slimy lizard.
d.) all who believe there is such a thing as "sin".
e.) all who have ever used or heard the phrase " moral authority
".
f.) anyone who believes that a document as old as the
Constitution should matter, at this point.
g.) anyone who believes someone with the nickname Slick Willy,
caught in a thousand lies,  might not be telling the truth now.
h.) anyone who has ever questioned the actions of the government
and is still living or is not imprisoned.
Using these guidelines as promoted by the United Pollsters /
Young Urban Research Specialists, commonly known as UPYURS, the
results were astoundingly accurate. When asked if Clinton is
doing a good job, 7335 percent answered "yes", although when
asked to be more specific, 8223 percent hadn't the foggiest idea
what his job duties are.
As to whether he should resign, 14243 percent answered " no ". A
breakdown analysis revealed that, among those not eliminated by
the above fairness rules, 62,786,091 work for the Clinton
administration, 24,892,456 cannot speak English, 12,873,612 bear
fur, and there was one token conservative.
In a completely unrelated question, the same broadband group was
asked whether Hitler should be posthumously awarded the Nobel
Peace Prize......

Tom Simmons

*****************************************************************
*****
The most formidable weapon against oppression and tyranny is not
bullets, for their use is as a last resort, nor hiding in the
mountains, for there is no safe haven from tyranny, nor foolish
martyrdom for freedom's sake. It is an informed and involved
citizenry. This IS our only hope.Get involved.
Tom Simmons




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 14:22:53 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: This Country *Needs* to Come to a Screeching Halt!
Message-ID: <199810110537.WAA18784@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: Patricia Neill 
Subject: IP: This Country *Needs* to Come to a Screeching Halt!
Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 15:44:42 -0400
To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com

This Country *Needs* to Come to a Screeching Halt!
by Patricia Neill (c) 1998

All week I've had to listen to the ever more irritating mass media clones
droning on about how Americans want "the country to move on" and how all
these polled citizens want the President and Congress "to get back to the
business of running the country." The media droids (and they have such a
droidic quality that they're beginning to sound all alike to me) have of
course used their boring technique of repeating these dimwitted phrases over
and over and over and over in the bright hope that we get the message.

As always, I have to wonder who the hell these media people poll. It surely
isn't me nor the millions upon millions like me! My bet is that the
pollagandizers (a newly minted, wonderful fresh coinage from the pen of
Publius Press) ask each other what they think, and use that as their
statistically significantly absolutely similar population. Or maybe they ask
the animals at the Washington Zoo and take the calls, snarls and roars for
the dulcent tones of assent and consent to their pollaganda (lifted from the
same place, today's Federalist Digest). But what I do know is that they are
not asking *anyone* who remotely disagrees with their bias, and if they
mistakenly call someone like me, I'm probably one of the ones they would
simply ignore, as not statistically significant, or at least not
significant, to their wizened little minds.

As for me, do I want "the country to move on?" Hell, NO! I want it to come
to a screeching halt! I want everything else to stop, cease, desist until
the American people and those spurious Spongelords down in Congress have a
chance to fully investigate Mr. Clinton and his White House. I don't care if
no other "business of the country" gets handled. I don't care if NO federal
agencies get funded. In fact, I'd just as soon they weren't. Let's not fund
them for a year, and see if we miss any of them. I doubt it. We'd all be a
lot happier if they disappeared off the face of the earth. Ain't that the
truth.

I don't even care if Congress has to close down. That'd be another blessing
in my book. They can all meet outside of Congress and hold their
investigation. They don't need to be under oath--they never pay any
attention to it anyway. In fact, why doesn't the Republican majority shut
down Congress while they go about checking out those lying sacks of gas up
on 1600 Pennsylvania. They can rent the Watergate Hotel--it'd be a fitting
touch.

I want to know every little detail of what Mr. Clinton did, and when. I want
to know how Hillary's billing files for the Rose Law Firm "disappeared" and
then "showed up." I want to know about all the millions Bill and Hillary and
gang stole from Madison Guaranty. I want all the myriads of scandals of this
White House--both Clintons and ALL their cohorts--laid open for the public
to see--and I know it will be ugly, real ugly. Actually, my bet is it will
be pretty fascinating in a sick kind of way. Like watching a huge spider
crawl up the wall if you have arachnaphobia.

One fatheaded demagogue (I think it was Barney Frank) was quoted on NPR this
morning as saying (and this is not exact, as I was busy trying to get the
escaping smoke back into my ears). In the whining, puling tones,
characteristic of this particular specimen of Congress:  "We should censure
Clinton, but he did nothing impeachable. Do you *really* want this thing to
drag on for a year, while the 'business of the country' is waiting?"

Short answer to that is, there is absolutely no reason under the sun for
this to take a year, you dissembling, mammering twit! You could do it in a
day, an hour, a nanosecond.You ALREADY know the crimes of Bill Clinton and
his wife. You already *know* he lied, he lied to you, he lied to the grand
jury, he lied to the American people. And my question for you is, what the
hell is your *problem.* Do you honestly think Bill Clinton should be allowed
to get away with not only his adultery and lying, but with all his other
malfeasances, offenses, violations, felonies, torts, misconduct, misdeeds,
sins, transgressions, iniquities and outrages--did I miss anything? Oh yes,
murders! You have six years worth to sort through. In fact, Bill Clinton is
such a crook that he should have been impeached, tried, convicted and jailed
*before* he became president. You have his Washington crimes, but if you go
back to his Arkansas years, you'd really have a bonanza!

So, please, stop everything else and deal with this impeachment,
immediately. The financial global crisis can go right on crisis-ing, for all
I care. You all created that problem in the first place, and you ain't gonna
get my money to solve it by bailing out Wall Street again. The heck with
that. So put everything else to the side, and yes, bring this country to a
screeching halt. And see to Mr. Clinton's crimes. My respect for the
government is already a mere wisp at this point, if that. If Congress does
not impeach--and do a serious job--then ALL my respect for government and
what you folk cynically call "rule of law" will be gone. 

That's a promise.






**********************************************
To subscribe or unsubscribe, email:
     majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 14:03:29 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Different Approaches to Privacy Issue: OECD
Message-ID: <199810110537.WAA18794@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Different Approaches to Privacy Issue: OECD
Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 16:28:03 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  USIA
http://www.usia.gov/current/news/latest/98100904.clt.html?/products/washfile
/newsitem.shtml

09 October 1998 

OECD CONFERENCE ACCEPTS DIFFERENT APPROACHES TO
PRIVACY ISSUE 

(Resolved authentication issue on electronic signatures) (400)
By Bruce Odessey
USIA Staff Correspondent

Ottawa -- A conference of 29 industrialized countries for promoting
electronic commerce has resolved a controversy between the United
States and the European over Internet privacy by accepting both points
of view.

The United States contended industry should be left to manage the
problem by itself, but the European Union had demanded a government
regulatory approach.

"The adversity of views can produce compatible solutions," said John
Manley, Canadian minister of industry, who presided over the October
7-9 conference of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and
Development.

The language approved by the OECD said the governments "encourage the
adoption of privacy policies, whether implemented by legal,
self-regulatory, administrative or technological means."

In a statement issued in Washington U.S. Commerce Secretary William
Daley praised the conference work.

"Our self-regulatory approach can co-exist with approaches taken by
other governments so long as we focus on our common objective --
effective privacy protection," Daley said.

Again, on the issue of authenticating e-commerce signatures and
enforcing Internet contracts, the OECD was comfortable with different
approaches. The governments declared they would "take a
non-discriminatory approach to electronic authentication from other
countries."

The three-day conference held in Ottawa, Canada, was the first one
held by the OECD to include representatives from business, labor and
consumer groups as well as non-member governments.

Business representatives expressed satisfaction with the outcome, but
representatives of consumer groups were skeptical or hostile.

The OECD staff is required to complete draft guidelines in 1999 on
consumer protection.

The OECD emphasized development "of effective market driven
self-regulatory mechanisms that include input from consumer
representatives." But consumer advocates insisted that only
government-to-government agreements can protect consumer interests
when shoddy goods are ordered over the Internet and delivered across
national borders.

The conference also took some crucial decisions on taxation. Notably
the governments agreed to apply existing taxes to electronic commerce
and not to develop new taxes.

They also agreed to impose taxes at the place of consumption and not
at the place of production and to work out problems in defining the
place of consumption.

OECD Director-General Donald Johnston said he expected some sort of
follow up meeting at the working level and not at the ministerial
level within a year.

-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




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To subscribe or unsubscribe, email:
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 14:21:52 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Oops! Police Fire Tear Gas Into Wrong House
Message-ID: <199810110537.WAA18805@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Oops! Police Fire Tear Gas Into Wrong House
Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 17:21:40 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  St. Paul, Minnesota Pioneer Planet News
http://www.pioneerplanet.com/news/mtc_docs/004072.htm

Published: Friday, October 9, 1998 

Suspect captured; incident probed
Tear gas fired into neighbor's house by St. Paul police

ROBERT F. MOORE STAFF WRITER 

A 12-hour search for a man who shot at St. Paul police in Highland
Park ended Thursday morning when a police dog found him hiding in a
tool shed.

And a couple living next door to the suspect was temporarily moved by
the city into a hotel after police fired tear gas into their home.

Police Chief William Finney said Thursday night he didn't know
whether the action was planned by the Critical Incident Response
Team, or CIRT.

``I suspect it was an accident,'' Finney said. ``Overall it was an
excellent operation. No one was hurt. They held the position for 12
hours and they made the arrest. But they have some explaining to do.''

Dr. Daniel Lutz, the owner of the house, was not looking for
explanations Thursday night. He just wanted to get back into the home
he has shared with his wife for the last five years.

``I saw my house in the dark last night, but I don't even know the extent
of the damage,'' said Lutz, 28, a chiropractor in Circle Pines. ``Right
now, I'm not trying to point fingers. I don't know if it was justified or
not. I just want my house put back in order.''

Lutz said the city has begun decontaminating the house and that he
planned to move back in early next week.

He and his wife had been evacuated and were at a neighbor's home
before the tear gas operation began just after 1 a.m.

Meanwhile, Finney has scheduled a meeting with supervisors of the
operation today to determine what happened.

Other neighbors who took cover in their basements before the
operation said a contractor was at the scene late Thursday afternoon to
replace the windows of the Lutz home.

Finney said the city attorney was working with the family to repair the
damage. Neither Finney nor Lutz knew the extent of the damage
Thursday night.

Despite the incident, however, neighbors agreed police responded
appropriately, simply because the suspect was apprehended.

At about 8:30 a.m. Thursday, a police dog discovered Wa Lee Her,
51, in a rusty tin shed next to a residence on the 2300 block of
Edgcumbe Road. Her was treated at Regions Hospital for dog bites on
a leg and released to police custody, pending a decision on multiple
aggravated assault charges.

Police said the dog, Ranger, was sent into the shed after Her ignored
orders to come out. The suspect did not draw a weapon during his
capture, though police recovered a shotgun and a rifle. One of those
weapons was allegedly used the night before to threaten his wife and
also to fire a shot at police. Her's stepson told a 911 dispatcher his
stepfather was threatening to shoot his mother.

Her was apprehended just blocks away from his family's St. Paul
Avenue house.

Finney praised the two officers, Tina Kill and Jeffrey Levens, who
responded to Her's home on the 1100 block of St. Paul Avenue just
before 9 p.m. Wednesday.

``I'm real proud of those two officers,'' Finney said. ``They did exactly
what they were trained to do. They contained the situation, evacuated
the residents of the house, called for additional resources and kept the
suspect bottled up all night.''

Police blocked off the area soon after Her allegedly fired a shot at
Levens and fled into the neighborhood between Howell Street and
Edgcumbe Road.

Levens had shined a flashlight on the suspect and ordered him to put his
hands in the open, when Her fired at the officer, police said. Levens
returned fire. No one was hit.

Later in the night, officers decided to use tear gas after hearing what
police said was a muffled sound, possibly a gunshot, come from the
suspect's house. Police first fired tear gas into the Lutz home and then
the suspect's.

Officers from CIRT and the K-9 unit waited until about 7 a.m. to
conduct a ground search of the area. It was a move Finney said was
intended to protect both the public and the between 40 and 50 officers
in the area.

``It doesn't make sense to search a wooded area in the dark when the
suspect has such firepower,'' Finney said. ``We don't want citizens
caught in the cross-fire.''

Neighbors knew little about the suspect, but longtime residents thought
the family moved into their home less than two years ago.

``It was the most frightened I have ever been in my life,'' said Bonnie
Rodriguez, 49, who lives next door to the house where Her was found.
``I was getting ready to go to my doctor and I heard police officers
crawling on my roof and walking on my patio. Some had bulletproof
vests, some were dressed in camouflage. They had their guns drawn, so
they must have known the man was close. I thought there would be a
shootout in front of my house and someone would die in my yard.''

_

Rodriguez, who has lived on Edgcumbe Road for 15 years, said police
were searching around her house for about 30 minutes Thursday
morning.

``I feel better that he is not out here right now, but it terrifies me that he
was out there all night and could have broken into my house,'' she said.

Pat Sellner, who also lives in the neighborhood, viewed the assault and
manhunt as isolated incidents. Sellner, however, admitted being nervous
when he heard a helicopter flying overhead Wednesday night.

``I called 911 when the helicopter got lower,'' he said. ``The dispatcher
just told me to lock the doors and to stay inside.''

_Cmdr. Doug Wills viewed the entire situation with relief, reflecting on
the deaths of two St. Paul police officers gunned down four years ago.

``Whenever you get in a situation like this, you have to remember the
day those officers were killed,'' Wills said. ``It dictates how you do
business, because you want to make sure nothing like that will happen
again.''

St. Paul police officer Ron Ryan Jr. was fatally shot at 7 a.m. Aug. 26,
1994, in the parking lot of an East Side church. Three hours later,
officer Tim Jones and his police dog, Laser, were shot and killed by
Ryan's assailant as they and others searched for him in the
neighborhood. Guy Harvey Baker was caught, convicted and
sentenced to life in prison for the slayings.


Robert F. Moore, who covers crime and public safety, can be reached at
rmoore@pioneerpress.com or at (651) 228-5591.

(c)1998 PioneerPlanet / St. Paul (Minnesota) Pioneer Press - All Rights
Reserved 
copyright information
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 14:08:32 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Congress Poised To Approve Digital Copyright Law
Message-ID: <199810110537.WAA18819@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Congress Poised To Approve Digital Copyright Law
Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 18:41:50 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  Fox News - Reuters

Congress Poised To Approve Digital Copyright Law
            3.08 p.m. ET (1909 GMT) October 9, 1998

 WASHINGTON - Congress was expected to complete work later Friday on
legislation to update copyright law for the digital age, after removing a
controversial provision granting new rights to databases. 

 The bill, which the Senate approved Thursday and the House will consider
Friday, implements provisions of two international treaties adopted by the
World Intellectual Property Organization in 1996. 

 Software makers, movie studios, book publishers and other creators of
copyrighted works have pushed hard for the legislation. They feared that as
their products increasingly became available on the Internet in digital
form, pirates and criminals would be able easily to make and sell illegal
copies. 

 The legislation creates criminal penalties for anyone who disables
high-tech, anti-piracy protections, such as encryption, used to block
illegal copying. The bill forbids the manufacture, import, sale or
distribution of devices or services used for circumvention, as well. 

 "This was a huge win for us,'' said Richard Taylor, spokesman for the
Motion Picture Association of America. The movie industry will depend
heavily on anti-piracy technology for movies distributed in all manner of
formats, he said. 

 A variety of exceptions were also included at the request of libraries,
scientists and universities as well as some manufacturers of consumer
electronic devices. They feared the law would prevent some kinds of
research and would unfairly limit "fair use,'' the central principle of
existing copyright law allowing copies to be made for educational and other
noncommercial purposes. 

 The exceptions include allowing circumvention if done for computer
security testing, encryption research or limited kinds of computer software
development. Internet surfers could also circumvent in limited ways to
protect their privacy and parents could circumvent to monitor their
children's travels through cyberspace. 

 "What we've really been fighting about for the last few months was the
exceptions,'' said Jonathan Band, a lawyer at Morrison & Foerster who
worked with groups seeking to protect fair use. 

 Band criticized Congress for criminalizing devices instead of actions only
and for ignoring a person's motives for circumventing. "Given that Congress
chose to go about it entirely the wrong way, it ended up pretty well,'' he
said. 

 In addition, at the urging of Band's group and others, the
anti-circumvention laws will not go into effect for two years, until the
Librarian of Congress, with advice from the Commerce Department, decides
whether additional exceptions need to be made. Such exceptions would be
reconsidered in a recurring process every three years, at which time new
exceptions could also be created. 

 The bill also defined broad freedom from liability for online and Internet
service providers, like America Online , which otherwise might have been
held financially liable for copyright infringement by one of their millions
of customers. 

 Under the bill, service providers will not be held liable for violations
they do not know of but if notified by a copyright holder, must take rapid
action to shut down the alleged violator. However, if the copyright holder
fails to pursue the claim in court within a few weeks, the alleged violator
has the right to demand that online access be restored. 

 The controversial database provision, that was added at the last minute to
the House version of the bill by North Carolina Republican Rep. Howard
Coble, was dropped by a conference committee of members of both chambers. 

 The provision would have overturned a Supreme Court ruling and granted
copyright protection for the first time to databases assembled out of facts
that themselves were common knowledge and not protected by copyright law. 

 "The library community is extremely grateful that a sea change in American
law was not made,'' Adam Eisgrau, lobbyist for the American Library
Association, said. 

                     (c) Reuters Ltd. All rights reserved
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 05:11:47 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199810102056.WAA31995@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>> > >HOW MUCH CODE DID 'CYPHERPUNK' TIM MAY EVER WRITE?
>
>I suppose the cyphernomicon doesn't count as furthering 
>the cause to you?

ahhh, so when you say "cypherpunks write code" that also
means articles and other writings too????

so you can be a cypherpunk by writing a lot of stuff ABOUT
cypherpunks code????

but just cause you write the code or text, that's only
one part of the equiation, right???

in other words is david chaum a cypherpunk????




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: BMM 
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 11:25:40 +0800
To: cypherpunks@minder.net
Subject: IP address change
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Within the next 24 hours, minder.net will be moving to a new block of
IP's.  Until DNS catches up with the new addresses, mail to 
cypherpunks@minder.net may become delayed or undeliverable for a short
time.

Thanks

-Brian




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 15:11:21 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: A Scud in California!
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 10:30 PM -0700 10/10/98, Anonymous wrote:
>>>>>> William Knowles  writes:
>
>  >> From another one of the several lists I'm on, I figured someone
>  > might know who the new pseudo-proud owner of a fully-operational
>  > SS-1C Scud missle *WITH* moblie launcher is...
>
>No shit, Batman -- especially seeing as TCM already discussed it on
>this list over a week ago...
>
>-- ScudMonger

Hey, don't give free clues to the clueless.

Besides, my interest is not in that obsolete SCUD, but in the 8
shoulder-fired missiles brought in at Cosco's port the week before.

--Tim May


Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash.
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 06:22:01 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: DESX
Message-ID: <199810102206.AAA06060@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



| So what's DESX?

DESX is a modification of DES which uses a 64+56+64 bit key, with
what is called "pre- and post-whitening".  Specifically, break the key
into three pieces, 64 bit K1, 56 bit K2, 64 bit K3.  Then DESX is
defined by:

	C = K1 xor DES (K2, K3 xor P)

where P is plaintext, C is ciphertext, and DES (K, P) is the DES
encryption of P under key K.

The encryption then has three steps:

	- XOR the input with K3
	- DES encrypt that with K2
	- XOR the result with K1

The first and last steps are called "whitening" because by xoring with
a random value, any structure is destroyed.  White light is a uniform
and unstructured mixture of all colors.

Whitening has been adopted as a general tool in constructing ciphers
these days and many of the AES candidates use it.  It makes things more
difficult for the cryptanalyst as he won't know exactly what values are
being fed into the guts of the cipher.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Joseph 'Anonymous' Howe" 
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 13:15:10 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Bloodgate
Message-ID: <199810110455.BAA17730@privacy.nb.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Vince Foster suicide linked to Arkansas tainted plasma sales

Mark Kennedy
The Ottawa Citizen

The controversy over how a U.S. firm collected tainted blood from
Arkansas prison inmates and shipped it to Canada has spread to Vince
Foster -- U.S. President Bill Clinton's personal confidant who committed
suicide in 1993. 


Mr. Foster, a boyhood friend of Mr. Clinton's, was one of the president's
most trusted advisers. As a corporate lawyer in Arkansas, he worked in the
same law office as Hillary Rodham Clinton and became a close colleague of
hers. 

When Mr. Clinton left Arkansas for the White House in early 1993, he
called on Mr. Foster -- known as an earnest individual with high ethical
standards -- to join him as deputy White House counsel. Mr. Foster
obliged, also remaining the Clintons' personal lawyer. Now, five years after
his mysterious death, two developments have prompted questions about
Mr. Foster's knowledge of the U.S. company's prison-blood collection
scheme: 

  - There are signs that Mr. Foster tried to protect the company called Health
    Management Associates (HMA) more than a decade ago in a lawsuit. 

  - And a major U.S. daily newspaper recently reported that Mr. Foster may
    have been worried about the tainted-blood scandal, which was just
    emerging as a contentious issue in Canada, when he killed himself in July
    1993. 

Mr. Clinton was governor of Arkansas when the Canadian blood supply
was contaminated in the early and mid-1980s. He was familiar with the
operations of the now-defunct HMA, the Arkansas firm given a contract by
Mr. Clinton's state administration to provide medical care to prisoners. In
the process, HMA was also permitted by the state to collect prisoners'
blood and sell it elsewhere. 

HMA's president in the mid-1980s, Leonard Dunn, was a friend of Mr.
Clinton's and a political ally. Later, Mr. Dunn was a Clinton appointee to
the Arkansas Industrial Development Commission and he was among the
senior members of Mr. Clinton's 1990 gubernatorial re-election team. 

The contaminated prisoners' plasma -- used to create special blood
products for hemophiliacs -- is believed to have been infected with HIV, the
virus that causes AIDS. As well, it's likely the plasma was contaminated
with hepatitis C. 

Any information linking Mr. Foster to HMA and its blood program is bound
to raise more questions about how much Mr. Clinton knew. 

Michael Galster, a medical practitioner who did contract work for the
prison system, has revealed to the Citizen that Mr. Foster once approached
him in the mid 1980s to ask for a favour. 

At the time, Mr. Clinton's administration and HMA were facing a
$12-million lawsuit from a prisoner whose infected leg had been amputated
at the hip in 1982. 

The inmate was claiming that poor medical care by an HMA doctor -- who
had been working in the prison despite being denied a permanent licence to
practice by the state medical board -- had resulted in the needless
amputation. 

Mr. Galster, an expert in prosthetics, says HMA's medical director had
asked him to build a special artificial leg for the prisoner in the hope that it
would lead to an out-of-court settlement. Mr. Galster refused to get
involved, and was visited several weeks later at his office by Mr. Foster,
who appealed again for his assistance. 

"The purpose of his being there was to convince me to take this, smooth it
over and everybody would be happy," says Mr. Galster, who has written a
fictionalized account of the prison-blood collection saga, called Blood Trail. 

"I refused him. He said, 'I understand your predicament, but this could
make it difficult for you to get a future state contract.' 

"If it's like the past state contracts I've had, I don't need any," Mr. Galster
says he replied. "He (Foster) kind of laughed and said 'OK, I appreciate
your time.' " 

It was the only time the two met, but Mr. Galster now says he believes Mr.
Foster was trying to protect both Mr. Clinton and HMA from public
embarrassment. 

The questions surrounding Mr. Foster became even more intriguing when,
several days ago, the New York Post published an article entitled "The
tainted blood mystery" by one of its columnists, Maggie Gallagher. She
reported on how the Citizen had broken a lengthy story in mid-September
about the Arkansas prison-blood scheme. 

Most significantly, Ms. Gallagher wrote that the story suddenly cast new
meaning upon "a strange little memory fragment" that had been "meaningless
in itself." 

Citing a source who asked not to be identified, Ms. Gallagher reported that
a day or two after Mr. Foster died on July 20, 1993, someone called a
little-known phone number at the White House counsel's office where Mr.
Foster had worked. 

"The man said he had some information that might be important," wrote Ms.
Gallagher. "Something had upset Vince Foster greatly just days before he
died. Something about 'tainted blood' that both Vince Foster and President
Clinton knew about, this man said." 

Mr. Foster's mysterious death spawned a political controversy from the
moment that police, responding to an anonymous 911 caller, found his body
in a national park in Washington, D.C. 

Police concluded that Mr. Foster had stood there coatless in the
late-afternoon heat, inserted the muzzle of an antique Colt 38. revolver into
his mouth and pulled the trigger. Immediately, conspiracy theorists began
spreading rumours that Mr. Foster had been murdered. But independent
counsel Robert Fiske (a special prosecutor who examined the Whitewater
scandal before being replaced by Kenneth Starr) conducted his own review
and agreed with police that it was suicide. 

It was believed that Mr. Foster had been suffering from depression and was
especially perturbed by a brewing scandal in which he was embroiled. In
the so-called Travelgate fiasco, Clinton aides had fired several veteran
White House travel-office employees as part of an alleged attempt to give
the lucrative travel business to Arkansas cronies. 

However, Ms. Gallagher's column has raised questions over whether Mr.
Foster was distressed about something he knew regarding tainted blood,
and whether this anxiety contributed to his suicide. 

In Canada, the summer of 1993 was a critical period. A Commons
committee, which had conducted a brief review of the tainted blood
scandal, had just released its report in May. Its first recommendation called
for a major "public inquiry" to conduct a "full examination of the events of
the 1980s" when the Canadian blood supply became contaminated with
AIDS. 

Indeed, on Sept. 16 -- eight weeks after Foster's death -- the federal
government announced the public inquiry, to be headed by Justice Horace
Krever. During the course of his work, Justice Krever unearthed the
Arkansas prison-blood collection scheme and wrote about it in his final
report last year. 

However, no mention was made of Mr. Clinton until last month's story in
the Citizen, which drew on documents obtained from Arkansas State Police
files. 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Frank O'Dwyer" 
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 09:27:43 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: "TCQ" (request for comments)
Message-ID: <36200581.C18BC73C@brd.ie>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Some people asked for more detail on the project I am working on, so I
have begun a quick write-up about it. A draft version is at the URL
below. This is just a sketch, and the document is fairly scrappy still,
but I thought it would be worth asking for comments at this stage
anyway. So, flame away.

   http://www.brd.ie/papers/tcq.pdf

(Yes, it's an acrobat doc. Apologies for the somewhat awkward format
here.)

Cheers,
Frank O'Dwyer.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 08:47:43 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: none
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199810110030.CAA18370@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



  > PS. there is someone on this list who knows who i am.
  > yes there is someone who knows who anon posters are.

Damn straight!

There's anon over there behind the larch,
trying not to be seen.

Or do you mean anon in the filing cabinet
(she's trying not to be seen, either).

-- KillTheBlacksMonger




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 08:47:39 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199810110030.CAA18407@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Sunday, October 11, 1998 - 01:11:20 MET

It's messages like this which make the cypherpunk mailing list more bearable... NOT :- )


-> Subject: N/A
-> Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 22:18:31 +0200
-> From: Anonymous 
-> To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net

-> PS. there is someone on this list who knows who i am. yes there is someone who knows who anon
-> posters are. we fucking hate you and am waiting for you to take the trap and we will reveal your identity scumbag.

- Scumbag
Interesting terminology... :- ) I got this nifty little slang dictionary which has this word in it...
"Dictionary of Contemporary Slang" by Tony Thorne... ISBN 1-85980-003-3 [on the back of the dic] and it's worth 12.99 in 
British pounds :- ) Published in 1994
Copyright (c) Tony Thorne 1990
The moral right of author has been asserted
A CIP entry for this book is available from the British Library
Printed in Britain by Clays Ltd, St. Ives plc
ISBN 0 7475 1735 5 [on the second page]

Comments on back of book: More than 5,000 racy and raffish colloquial expressions - from Britain, America, the Caribbean, 
and other English-speaking places.
'Fascinating. Certainty a book I shall want to keep on trucking with.' Daily Mail
'Wonderfully informative.' Observer
------------------------------------
Definition of 'fucking': adjective
an intensifier used with other adjectives to emphasis. Like "bloody" it is also one of the very few examples of an 'infix' [a word 
component inserted before the stressed syllable in the middle of a polysyllabic word] in English.
    e.g. 'Jesus, it's f****** cold in here.'
    e.g. 'Abso-fucking-lutely.'

Definition of 'scumbag': noun, [origin] American
a deceptive person. This term of abuse is now widespread and is permitted in the broadcast media, in spite of the fact that its 
origin, unknown to many of its users, is as an obscene phemism for condom, 'scum' being an obsolescent American term for 
semen. The word was adopted by British speakers around 1985.
    e.g.. 'Even scumbags have right here in the USA.' [Red Heat, US film 1988]

Oo and a bottle of rum,
Anonymous

PS: If I remember correctly, the main actors in Red Head were James Belushi, and Arnold Swatznager [something like that]....




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 10:54:13 +0800
To: fod@brd.ie
Subject: TCQ ascii version
Message-ID: <199810110234.EAA29043@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



(c) 1998 Frank O'Dwyer. Verbatim copying and redistribution in any
medium is permitted provided this copyright notice is preserved on all
copies.

			TCQ ("They Seek You")
		     Mass-market Strong Anonymity
			   Frank O'Dwyer
                            fod@brd.ie
Introduction

This document sketches the design goals and features of "TCQ", a work
in progress with the aim of providing a mix of features offered by
ICQ, IRC and email -- but using cryptography to provide strong
anonymity and privacy. As the name implies, TCQ "(They Seek You") is
similar in purpose to ICQ ("I Seek You"), but with a very different
emphasis. TCQ is motivated by the recognition that people being sought
do not always wish to be found, and that those doing the seeking
(people, organisations, or governments) can be threatening. TCQ is
also motivated by a desire to make the use of strong anonymity easier
and much more common, riding the current wave of popularity of
"anonymous" services like IRC, ICQ and webmail.

Status

TCQ is in the early stages of being designed and prototyped; this
early draft is being made available now to solicit comments (and
assistance) from anyone with an interest in this project.  Some
initial design decisions and the rationale for them are also
documented here. It is planned to make TCQ freely available in source
and binary form, under a liberal licence (such as MozPL, or a
BSD-style licence). If you can contribute ideas, or code on those
terms, you are welcome to.

Background

Basic political background to this, intended for general consumption
(including people who may not be aware of what GAK is, etc.). This is
just a sketch. - FOD

Anonymous communication is hugely popular. Vast numbers of
non-technical people use services such as ICQ (www.mirabilis.com) and
Hotmail (www.hotmail.com) because they want to communicate privately
and anonymously. However, these systems only offer a weak form of
privacy and anonymity. They use unencrypted links (which can easily be
tapped), unencrypted messages on centralised servers (which can easily
be commandeered or shut down) and well known sites (to which access
can easily be blocked). They also use communication links that can be
traced to individuals, albeit requiring some effort.

Systems which offer much better privacy and anonymity are available
(for example PGP, Cypherpunks remailers), but relatively few people
use those systems. This is partly because relatively few people know
about them, but mainly because they are difficult to use. There is a
lot of additional theory on strongly anonymous and strongly private
communications [ref Cypherpunks literature here], but few
implementations of any sort and no mass-market implementations. (that
I am aware of - FOD).

In the case of strong anonymity, most services thus far have been
based on email. Email has a strong culture of being suspicious of
"fake names", and this is another factor in the lack of mainstream
take-up of strong anonymity. However, with services such as IRC and
ICQ, "fake names" are the norm -- these cultures are now becoming
mainstream and they may be more receptive to strong anonymity.

At the same time, an individual's ability to communicate with true
privacy and anonymity is under threat from various quarters, including
for example:

o Government Access to Keys. Proposals designed to allow governmental
access to private communications, (including encrypted private
communications between individuals) have been circulating for some
time in many jurisdictions including the United States and Europe.
These proposals are typically sold on the back of "hard cases", such
as a claimed need for law enforcement to be able to intercept the
communications of paedophiles and terrorists.

o Physical border inspections. Users who cross borders may be subject
to customs inspection of any computer equipment they may be carrying;
for example, if their laptops contain (or appear to contain) encrypted
information, they may be required to provide the key(s). On the other
hand, if their information is not encrypted, then users' confidential
information (private diaries, letters, business plans) is
exposed. There are rumours that some countries (such as the UK)
already perform such inspections.

o Centralised Services. There is a growing trend to move
security-critical services off users' own PCs and onto the web. Prime
examples include online backup and webmail. Even non-technical people
often instinctively react to this by becoming "anonymous" (e.g. lying
about their names and location). However, this is still a very
hospitable climate for attack by governments and other parties, and in
any case, the level of anonymity is weak. Also, in so far as such
services benefit privacy/anonymity (e.g. webmail), they are easily
monitored, blocked, or shut down.

o Strongly Identifying Protocols. Commercial security products, some
of which apparently offer strong encryption and privacy, are almost
universally based upon "X.509 certificates" and trusted third parties
known as "Certification Authorities" (CAs). This trend is worrying for
a number of reasons:

  o X.509 is typically used as a strongly identifying protocol, and the
  analogy is often made between X.509 certificates and a driving licence
  or passport. Although X.509 can facilitate private communications, it
  effectively prevents anonymous private communications since by design
  it requires you to show your "passport" to strangers.  (X.509 does not
  have to be used this way, but people are often encouraged to use it
  that way.)

  o Use of X.509, and in particular establishment of public CAs, is
  likely to be heavily regulated. Proposals have been made to "licence"
  CAs, for example. Regulated management of individuals' encryption keys
  is not a healthy development for online privacy.

  o Extensions for governmental access to keys have been made to X.509,
  and X.509 is at the heart of some governmental strategies to mandate
  key access.

  o If Public CAs take off then they will turn out to be single points
  of failure and an extremely attractive attack target. Anyone
  (individual, corporation or government) who can compromise a public CA
  is in an excellent position to attack the communications of all users
  served by that CA.

o Logical border inspections. Communications that cross cyberspace
borders may be subject to traffic monitoring and/or filtering. This
might occur at corporate firewalls or at well defined national "entry
points" and "exit points".

o Non-repudiation. Some systems for private communications have as a
side effect that it is difficult for a person to plausibly deny
sending or receiving a particular message. This is sometimes welcome,
but it can be a problem if the person thinks he or she is
anonymous. For example, a warm body might be linked to a message just
by being found in physical possession of related cryptographic keys.

Design goals

These goals are listed to give an idea of the features TCQ is intended
to provide. It is likely that TCQ will meet these goals only in a
piecemeal fashion as it evolves, doing the easy bits first and leaving
the hard bits till later. We will see. -FOD

1. Casual Anonymity. TCQ should offer a messaging service based on
disposable cryptographic identities. This level of anonymity is weak,
but it is easiest to implement and it is a start.

2. Relative Anonymity. It can be useful to have multiple identities
(or "nyms") and for some identities to be less anonymous than
others. A nym might be anonymous, identified to a friend, identified
to a select group, or generally identified to everyone. For example,
this allows for applications where the sender is anonymous but the
receiver is not. TCQ should allow people to selectively reveal their
identities (including partial information about themselves) while
remaining fully anonymous to others. TCQ should also allow multiple
identities to be maintained, with varying degrees of anonymity, and
allow these identities to be kept at arm's length from each
other. Lastly, it should be possible for a TCQ sender to selectively
reveal "also known as" relationships between one nym and
another. (lots of requirements here -- might be worth splitting this
up).

3. Strong Anonymity. TCQ should be extensible to use, or natively
offer, stronger anonymity services (mixes, remailer-type
functionality, etc.).

4. Privacy. It should not be possible for unintended recipients to
read TCQ messages (but see the caveats below).

5. Integrity. It should not be possible for a third party to tamper
with TCQ messages. (again see the caveats below.)

6. Repudiability. It should be possible to plausibly deny having sent
a TCQ message, or at least know when this will not be the case.

7. Ease of use.

   o TCQ should be easy to install and use for average users of ICQ,
   webmail and IRC, and should not require special cryptographic
   expertise.

   o TCQ should also be easy to use for advanced users, and allow them to
   know what is going on "under the hood".

   o It should be easy for average users to become advanced users, and
   they should be guided to documentation of issues that affect their
   privacy.

   o It should be easy for developers to extend TCQ without being
   intimately acquainted with all of its workings (ideally, it should
   offer well-defined extension points wherever possible).

8. Decentralisation. TCQ should not depend upon well-known centralised
servers, since they are easily monitored and shut down. (This is
unfortunate, since many ICQ-style features are very difficult to
provide without central servers; TCQ may have to piggyback on existing
public resources such as IRC and webmail to provide these.)

9. No Special Resources. TCQ should require only resources that are
available to the average dial-up ISP user. (Users should not be
required to set up a server on the Internet for example, though they
should be able to use any public resources that exist, and private
resources if they have them.)

10. Secure Message Store. TCQ should provide encrypted and tamperproof
storage for received messages, and should provide a feature to
securely erase messages from this store. (It is arguable whether
"securely erase" is always useful -- an attacker will usually be able
to record encrypted messages in transit anyhow. However there may be
draft messages in the store that were never sent anywhere.)

11. Mobility. TCQ users will be typical dial-up users. They will not
necessarily have fixed or easily discovered IP addresses. They may
also change ISPs, move from location to location, or switch
computers. While travelling they may cross borders and potentially
they will be subject to inspections of their computing equipment.

12. Channel Independence. It should be possible to extend TCQ (with
code) so that TCQ messages can be sent over whatever channels and
drop-points are available (e.g. direct connections, email, webmail,
IRC, ICQ, ftp sites, newsgroups, mailing lists, remailers, eternity
services, etc.). Initially it should be possible to use at least IRC,
email and webmail, since these are easiest to implement, most people
have easy access to these, and IRC and webmail are relatively
anonymous to begin with. (The expectation of anonymity is also highest
on these services.) After that, use (and ultimately provision) of
anonymous remailer style services is the natural next step.

13. Programmatic Access. It should be possible for programs (robots)
to send messages via TCQ, and to automatically handle received
messages. Command line and API access, coupled with some form of
scriptability and the ability to call out to scripts to handle,
pre-process or send messages is desirable for this.

14. Group communication. Programs such as IRC and ICQ offer the
ability to have N-way chats. If it is to attract users of these
programs, TCQ needs to offer that too. (This is difficult to do
generically and securely, however.)

15. File Transfer. Messages should not be restricted to text messages,
and messages should not be limited in size.

16. Stealth, firewall negotiation. TCQ should be able to avail of
stealthy channels, and should not make its protocols easy to
firewall. Protocols that are easy to firewall are usually easy to
filter and monitor, and always easy to shut down.

17. Persistent pseudonyms, friend location. With IRC and ICQ, it is
straightforward to determine if a friend is online and communicate
with them again (although this is not done securely). Although it has
no central server, TCQ should allow this in a similarly
straightforward fashion, otherwise few will use it.

18. Key Management Independence. TCQ should not presuppose much more
than the availability of a key pair per pseudonym. This allows
different key management systems to be used, including web-of-trust,
reputation capital systems, manual key exchange etc.

19. No patent problems. TCQ should not require the use of patented
techniques or patented algorithms such as RSA and IDEA, as this would
affect its use in some countries.

20. Sugar. Popular chat clients (e.g. Mirc, Vplaces) provide various
"nice to have" features such as the ability to play sound files during
conversations and the ability to have avatars (graphical
representations of participants). TCQ should provide similar features.

Anonymity and Privacy Caveats

This is just an attempt on my part to work out what is and is not
achievable in terms of privacy and integrity when purely anonymous
participants are involved and relationships are formed wholly online
(i.e. no out-of-band contact or face-to-face meetings). I just wrote
it down here to clarify my own thinking and to capture it
somewhere. Comments on this reasoning are very welcome. - FOD.

Anonymous Receivers

When talking to an anonymous receiver, privacy of communications does
not apply in the usual sense, regardless of how much encryption is
present. This is because an anonymous receiver could be anyone (by
definition). In such a scenario, the sender should assume the worst,
namely that the receiver is not someone the sender wishes to
communicate confidential information to.  For example, the receiver
could be some entity out to determine the sender's identity or exact
location. In addition, the receiver could pass the sender's messages
on to others. Thus, not only could you be talking to anyone, you could
be talking to everyone. In a group where all relationships are
anonymous and formed wholly online, no amount of strong cryptography
or "reputation capital" changes this (see Man in the middle attacks
below). So why bother encrypting to an anonymous receiver? The only
reason seems to be that in an anonymous online relationship, privacy
comes from sender anonymity and sender anonymity might fail. If it
does, then message encryption is a second line of defence against
eavesdroppers but only if the anonymous receiver is trustworthy after
all. There seem to be plenty of threat models in which encryption to
anonymous receivers is worthless.

An example may clarify this: Nym1 wishes to admit some embarrassing
but non-identifying fact about themselves to Nym2. The reason Nym1 is
willing to make the admission is because Nym1 believes itself to be
speaking anonymously, not because it believes it is speaking
privately. After all, Nym2 could be anyone/everyone. However, if
Nym1's anonymity fails somehow, then encrypting to Nym2 can be
beneficial if there is some significant chance that Nym2 is not
revealing Nym1's messages, and Nym2 does not know Nym1 or is otherwise
not an adversary of Nym1. Similarly, if there is a significant chance
that Nym2 does know Nym1, or is an adversary, then encryption to Nym2
is pointless. In both cases, encryption is secondary and anonymity is
the point.

Anonymous Senders

The flip side of the above, from the receiver perspective, is that an
anonymous sender could be anyone. The receiver cannot assume that it
is the only person receiving the sender's messages, even if they are
encrypted. The sender could be broadcasting them. Nor can the receiver
assume that the messages are in any sense "from" any particular
sender, even if integrity protection is applied. They could be from
anyone. It seems at first sight that given a sequence of messages from
the same anonymous sender (same key pair) then each message is from
the same individual, and that reputations can be built based on that
fact. In the wholly-online/wholly-anonymous case, this is not quite
true however (see below).

Man in the middle attacks

In a group based on public keys where all relationships are anonymous
and formed wholly online, all communications within the group are
always subject to (active) man-in-the-middle attacks.  There is a
possible defence against this using scale and publicity, but
approaches such as web-of-trust and reputation capital do not work for
this. This is how it seems to me, anyway, assuming a public key system
is used, and I try to prove it below -- are there techniques other
than public key techniques that do any better? - FOD

This can be proved by informal induction; the first relationship
(between Alice and Bob) is necessarily formed by exchange of naked
public keys. No third party can vouch for the keys; there is no third
party. No reputation capital can attach to the keys; Alice and Bob
have just met for the first time. Since the public keys are naked, an
active attacker can substitute its own keys for those of Alice and Bob
during the key exchange. Thereafter the active attacker can eavesdrop
on the conversation between Alice and Bob, and can also inject,
delete, reorder, delay or modify messages at any time. As further
participants join the population, any new relationships formed can be
similarly attacked. Alice and Bob cannot reliably certify any new
participants since they can both be impersonated, and in any case, by
definition they do not know any new anonymous participants and can
certify nothing about them. For the same reason, new participants
cannot certify Alice and Bob either. Therefore, in principle at least,
the attacker can impersonate or eavesdrop on any member of the
population, no matter how large the population grows and no matter how
many messages are exchanged. Such an elaborate spoof is arguably not
feasible once some size of population is reached, but this is not
terrifically comforting. (Publicity on out-of-band channels
(e.g. face-to-face meetings) could be used to make these systems more
reliable, but these are excluded by construction -- relationships are
formed wholly online).  Reputation capital does not help, since it
does not matter how much capital Alice accrues if she can be
impersonated. The attacker can damage or abuse Alice's reputation at
any time, for example by injecting or modifying a message and making
it appear to come from Alice. What reputation capital can do, however,
is eventually defeat an attacker who for some reason is only able to
attack some of Alice's exchanges. In that case, Alice will appear to
have two public keys, one real and one fake (supplied by the
attacker). It is then up to Alice to boost the reputation of the real
key and damage that of the fake (assuming she gets to know of it).

Initial Design Decisions

This is still very incomplete, just a few notes for now - FOD

Programming Language, Platform

o TCQ will be implemented in Java/Swing, targeting Java 1.1/1.2 and
Windows initially.  Rationale: Java code is mobile and can be
digitally signed, which leaves room for the entire TCQ program and its
data to be dumped to cyberspace while travelling, and picked up
securely upon arrival (even on a different computer). Thus a mobile
TCQ user could cross borders with nothing more than a signature
verification key and a memorised passphrase, and still restore a
secure environment in the new location. Java is also cross-platform,
so although most people use Windows a relatively easy port to other
platforms (e.g., Macintosh, UNIX) should be possible, and developers
using other platforms can provide extensions without much in the way
of special tools. It is possible to call out to scripts from Java, and
Java can be driven by script (e.g. TCL script, or E (?)). Java also
has good support for cryptography, and an internationally available
crypto library (Cryptix).

Some problems with Java are that certain aspects of it are difficult
to secure, and Java GUIs are frustrating to port in practice. Secure
random number generation and protection of sensitive information such
as keys are hard problems in Java. However, these problems are not
significantly easier in other languages, and the GUI port is much more
difficult. If necessary native code could be used to provide any
features Java can't handle.

Generic Delivery Channels

o TCQ should presuppose only generic delivery channels for messages,
allowing new delivery channels to be added easily.

Rationale: To be usable over as many concrete delivery channels as
possible (IRC, sockets, webmail, ftp sites, remailers, etc. -- see
above), TCQ should not assume too much about the channel. In
particular this means that security features should be applied to the
messages themselves, not the channels. If channels can be assumed
insecure, then people adding code for new delivery channels do not
need to implement any security features unless it is to strengthen
anonymity.

Some properties that TCQ will need to know about each channel type are:

o Whether it is offline or online. That is, with some channels the
other party will be present at that moment and the communication can
be real-time. This is important mainly because on an online channel an
ephemeral key exchange can take place in order to establish perfect
forward secrecy for that particular conversation. A second set of
temporary keys can also be established while online, for later use in
offline communications. For communication that takes place entirely
offline, one-sided ephemeral key exchanges could be used as a form of
key change (this would allow the related nym to persist across key
changes and also improve forward secrecy.) Whether a channel is on or
offline can be modelled as just binary (on/offline) or alternatively
as some estimate of the channel lag.

o Its anonymity characteristics. Some channel types will be more
identifying than others. For example, a direct socket channel is
relatively traceable, whereas a channel through a remailer-type
network is much harder to trace. Channels via drop-points such as
public news groups are somewhere in the middle, but nearer the
"traceable" end of the spectrum.  Message Format

o TCQ messages will consist of an XML header and a MIME-typed content.
Rationale: (This is all based on more of a hunch than a firm
conviction.) XML is readable, easy to extend and easy to process with
scripting languages. It's a nice framework for prototyping protocols,
and unrecognised detail can easily be skipped. There are also
canonical formats for XML, which lend themselves to hashing, digital
signature, etc. It's good for assertions (certificates, RDF
possibilities, W3C digsig?) too. There's also a pretty simple mapping
from protocols such as SPKI and SDSI to XML, if necessary.

MIME is a well-established standard for messaging and content
identification, and the Java Activation Framework uses it for
drag-and-drop, etc.

Something like S/MIME or PGP/MIME could be used instead of XML+MIME,
but these do not work so well in the online case and S/MIME uses
X.509. In any case, these formats can still be used if desired, since
they can be embedded as MIME-types in the body of a TCQ message.

Generic "Friend Location"

o TCQ should presuppose only generic methods of locating friends.
Rationale: locating friends (i.e. finding if they are online,
determining their current IP address or preferred drop-point) is
difficult to do without a central server network. One approach is to
piggyback on some server network that already exists, such as an IRC
or ICQ network, or netphone directories. For example if two people log
onto an IRC network using one of a set of prearranged handles, they
can readily determine each other's online status and IP address.

Another approach is to post a current IP address in a prearranged
location, such as a web or FTP site. There are also some proposals for
"dynamic DNS" which could be useful, since this is a general problem
for mobile IP. Yet another approach is for the requirement to have no
servers to be relaxed to the extent of allowing "nym servers" to be
used just for the purposes of resolving previously exchanged nonces to
current IP addresses, current drop-points, etc. Such servers could
also double as drop-points themselves or as the basis of a remailer
network, if there were enough of them. A variation on the last
approach is to have sets of users collaborating to provide location
services and message forwarding services for one another. This is
probably the most interesting approach, but it is also the most
difficult, it is vulnerable to disruption, and firewalls are a
problem. By using a generic approach, simple initial solutions can be
replaced with other solutions later.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 13:46:28 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: A Scud in California!
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>>>>> William Knowles  writes:

  >> From another one of the several lists I'm on, I figured someone
  > might know who the new pseudo-proud owner of a fully-operational
  > SS-1C Scud missle *WITH* moblie launcher is...

No shit, Batman -- especially seeing as TCM already discussed it on
this list over a week ago...

-- ScudMonger




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: pgut001@cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann)
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 22:55:19 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Hidden WebTV signatures
Message-ID: <90811614423763@cs26.cs.auckland.ac.nz>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



For those of you who don't read sci.crypt, Robert Ames  has 
posted an article in which he observes that all WebTV posts contain an 
X-WebTV-Signature: line containing base64-encoded data.  For samples of 
WebTV-generated posts, try the alt.weemba newsgroup, which is filled with 
WebTV-user drool (caution: remember to employ protection when exposting your 
mind to the content of the messages).  Some samples:
 
X-WebTV-Signature: 1
        ETAsAhQDqtur/jfleJ2CDOnNrVoeyALEQAIUOQyCBbzjx5HHfxeMERDgCjztXOU= 
X-WebTV-Signature: 1
        ETAtAhUAmCCzQt+Tqt6fNX+L9+gDCECaqQkCFA0YCPz5tk85mUgq7iX/u4vWvOgG 
 
These decode into ASN.1-encoded DSA signatures, eg:
 
   1 30   45: SEQUENCE {
   3 02   21:   INTEGER
            :     00 98 20 B3 42 DF 93 AA DE 9F 35 7F 8B F7 E8 03
            :     08 40 9A A9 09
  26 02   20:   INTEGER
            :     0D 18 08 FC F9 B6 4F 39 99 48 2A EE 25 FF BB 8B
            :     D6 BC E8 06
            :   }
 
for the second one.  The key isn't included in the header, presumably the 
@webtv.net address can be tied to the hardware which contains some hardcoded 
DSA key.  I wonder if WebTV users know they're signing each message they send?
 
Peter.
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 01:12:25 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Hidden WebTV signatures
Message-ID: <199810111635.MAA06347@panix7.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



   >   From: pgut001@cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann)
   >
   >   I wonder if WebTV users know they're signing each message they send?

Of course they don't. 8*(

How about email? If they Usenet-post via replay?
---guy




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Robert A. Costner" 
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 02:12:14 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Hidden WebTV signatures
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981011134922.03d645e4@rboc.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 03:29 AM 10/12/98, Peter Gutmann wrote:

I have experimented with an X-signature line for "remailing" messages.  I
was recently trying this with the dragoncon.net service.

Cracker is a traditional Cypherpunk remailer.  Properly used, messages from
Cracker are not traceable even to governments.  Cracker generates enough
complaints to be bothersome.  Redneck, the nymserver, on the other hand
produces almost no complaints.  I perceive the different on the user's side
as being accountability and the use of a persistent identity.  On the
recipients side, the issue is retribution.  There are people who receive
anonymous messages who simply want retribution.  Cracker does not allow
this retribution to the user (so they pick on me:).  Redneck does allow
retribution.  http://anon.efga.org

Cracker and Redneck are "special" in that under no circumstances are logs
kept, messages traced, or any attempt done to track users.  So I started a
variation of a nym service at another domain, http://www.dragoncon.net

Based on comments from recipients and users of anonymous messages, I kept
two requirements

 * No user based encryption required
 * Retribution against the user is available

There is/was a back door in that while all messages go out with an X-IP
header, this is "lost" if the user originally registered with a first name
of "Anonymous".  I will not claim this is as secure as Cracker or Redneck,
but the service does fit the needs of many people.

I wanted to keep my original requirements in mind and allow messages to be
sent  "From: Anonymous" such as a cypherpunk remailer does.  In an effort
retain my requirement of recipient retribution, I experimented with the
idea of adding an X-Signature header which verifies the messages and the
sender address, but only to the dragoncon.net  mailer software.  I
experimented with PGP and the smallest key length hoping to get signatures
down to two lines, but this was not possible.

The idea was that only a registered user could post a message using the
"Anonymous" user id.  But if there were complaints, then I could assist the
complainant in getting retribution.  In fact, it would even be possible to
send replies to "Anonymous" and the remailer would determine who to send
the message to.

I played with it for a day.  Maybe I'll pick it up again later.  Any
comments on the idea are appreciated.  I don't usually read all cypherpunk
messages, so cc'ing me if you start a new thread would be nice.





  -- Robert Costner                  Phone: (770) 512-8746
Get your free email at http://www.dragoncon.net




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: BMM 
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 04:55:40 +0800
To: cypherpunks@minder.net
Subject: Test: cypherpunks@minder.net
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Test of new DNS records.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "L-Soft list server at Emory University (1.8d)"              
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 07:59:50 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.SSZ.COM
Subject: Command confirmation request (6329BE1B)
Message-ID: <199810112342.SAA00430@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Your command:

                             PW REP XXXXXXXX

requires confirmation. To  confirm the execution of  your command, simply
point your browser to the following URL:

         http://listserv.cc.emory.edu/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?OK=6329BE1B

Alternatively, if  you have no WWW  access, you can reply  to the present
message and type  "ok" (without the quotes) as the  text of your message.
Just the word "ok" - do not  retype the command. This procedure will work
with any mail  program that fully conforms to the  Internet standards for
electronic  mail. If  you receive  an error  message, try  sending a  new
message  to  LISTSERV@LISTSERV.CC.EMORY.EDU  (without using  the  "reply"
function - this is very important) and  type "ok 6329BE1B" as the text of
your message.

Finally, your  command will be  cancelled automatically if  LISTSERV does
not receive your confirmation within 48h. After that time, you must start
over and resend the command to get a new confirmation code. If you change
your mind and decide that you do  NOT want to confirm the command, simply
discard the present message and let the request expire on its own.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 02:13:08 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: test - ignore
Message-ID: <199810111748.TAA26223@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



ping




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: phelix@vallnet.com
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 06:16:56 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Hidden WebTV signatures
In-Reply-To: <199810112027.WAA06963@replay.com>
Message-ID: <36312944.569864385@news>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On 11 Oct 1998 15:57:33 -0500, Anonymous  wrote:

>
>Peter Gutmann writes:
>
>> For those of you who don't read sci.crypt, Robert Ames  has 
>> posted an article in which he observes that all WebTV posts contain an 
>> X-WebTV-Signature: line containing base64-encoded data.  For samples of 
>> WebTV-generated posts, try the alt.weemba newsgroup, which is filled with 
>> WebTV-user drool (caution: remember to employ protection when exposting your 
>> mind to the content of the messages).  Some samples:
>>  
>> X-WebTV-Signature: 1
>>         ETAsAhQDqtur/jfleJ2CDOnNrVoeyALEQAIUOQyCBbzjx5HHfxeMERDgCjztXOU= 
>> X-WebTV-Signature: 1
>>         ETAtAhUAmCCzQt+Tqt6fNX+L9+gDCECaqQkCFA0YCPz5tk85mUgq7iX/u4vWvOgG 
>
>Could someone grep their news spool for a few hundred of these signatures
>and post them here?  We can do statistical analysis on them and determine
>whether they all appear to be modulo the same q value.


Here ya go.  313 webtv sigs

-- Phelix



	ETAtAhQeHk0+b8Au0iGpkJrZtwhsU2MVoAIVAJR/nr45zMDoq1G526NRP+3jHVIb 
	ETAtAhUAiWMjaBJx75P5wCgIxslClcSUU4cCFHT6dVYU49dtEvX4HCI4bcmEiKBU 
	ETAsAhRLS36vm1OTCBG3CIAwMpdtg3fR1gIUdgWUE1cbbagEl7VbQvsengViPHc= 
	ETAtAhRPFKEhK84e2wMmHyKACt4Ilk3XZQIVAK5QZTG6xGW7+GXIGmu9xF7GyvSn 
	ETAtAhUAn6+qmQ+AYo9mIViQs4RDCODbJJoCFG+qrJqmg5qDjmakFC1Nawod5iA5 
	ETAtAhUAnictPulenQVgOJQjNC4u3hpnCaYCFDOD5PTlySpx4Qu2ddUdRpWhoqlE 
	ETAtAhRkO6kc7G5ww8SpfDc/9Y8trMjBgQIVAL8hrbkiiiN+IQ5lI4860ssYPpBI 
	ETAtAhQK1pwmX2vexa6PGwc3HfZ456ItvwIVAILP38f9fhupBIRPRKZTS3RiLzby 
	ETAtAhUAujZyW0eEGw8psn3AEp36f+vawlECFAcf6N5k3ozrc5Q7TXzXnn1hAdJq 
	ETAtAhUAwPBBuO6hICVNIj0Oifsyy+lno4wCFAJqdwoxzhTKc3Y2VdJksLU4FV/t 
	ETAtAhQzQv8qPo9+RKW4q4pIIyRcJMuFXAIVAMLD0isOPeOqlH8bZlxEk9942FeJ 
	ETAuAhUAqpXbl7r7FeP9IGtdSxm5fN22D6kCFQDFqfziRormhgR1PhPZUUurhWfvVQ== 
	ETAtAhUAjobFsoDyAlBzx80x1C5LOi2XahICFCzEQePKOCZTOzxB3SbzXR5jEJMC 
	ETAsAhR8oNABuZlXFw+c/lOqtdP+ieetrQIUQ8qoJtrYsT98CVvpryOhh3BQKw4= 
	ETAtAhUApm8LSet+z+W9nmdEITLJE5HT1Y0CFHcROS3ezhSxFQqwZg/q3TMjUdI4 
	ETAtAhUAhHb9lRIIU30rlSQaa+VFyNmr7ZgCFBiuj4mSW8uICieRle1LKeKudS50 
	ETAsAhRsZoT6dDawiems/788O3Zt1FEclQIUbwwmsEVcNWy1AeU3Xbq6O5NDLYo= 
	ETAsAhQBvSoylRxX+oCiPGP9zjz4q7RdOQIUOPXSOUk3+/iiHWKtu6CIaEkM6vg= 
	ETAtAhUAwUmt3gyDn4qOTmPqHaOHjfFMnBoCFFvqrdcwNQVZkuA1JQ8fzB3n3WK+ 
	ETAsAhQ8HaL+7uCTttjr1kpwh/jodI3TmwIUeDY2RxN2gB6gyWgQTOPc8gPbjvY= 
	ETAtAhUAv5DRywLaBTht37cYd95fJoF5PoICFFAwANg7T9nUNql/gHCC/LMXXX+l 
	ETAsAhR+0ji3eBSctbCQS1eYOx6uRcjMVAIUUGgGONQ7/9nvydoJneN1WZZlOhc= 
	ETAsAhQGZdSdf0MNvDO75zp7DZpO3MkBfwIUBLx7QZCwDwyY4jk4tZq1OK8N9YM= 
	ETArAhQs6Vk3FZ8xy/mc6B2wdep/COAWLwITFD3IXeD3LW44bHsZ3yVtfc8G0w== 
	ETAsAhRXMlEW4Iw7/h+I8OZI29KqH7t2hAIUWgEAuRFThZtt31xqeW3y0r65VGU= 
	ETAtAhQ0+Jijbfji8ln2iMiPqJFvc8xOswIVALiQnlZGO4NNWfXYB69Ce51loO8b 
	ETAtAhUAy54LI83+usNMOKkz/PMDpeysZOsCFGm5qVpGbeC+HP3TqpDdkI2RSREr 
	ETAtAhUAkDQwmVDrhpmrJ1fGVYxLT+ZvwjgCFGO4Q/DKaC5G9HgpxOR97L4qvaUq 
	ETAsAhQqilMPme5R51xixqRJsr7WQODb2wIUW/kQlEokMEixrynNf7L/IM05C5c= 
	ETAsAhQ0Zzj9wkJ6is9+nrg3dQW6sCZ7GgIULa0VBCAz2z4XDGWp409k0l4gxoo= 
	ETAtAhUAvy8/PKnMickBkTVO/d3DaiOsM3oCFF8L5ZUPbZXggS2okkLQrq7GxJmP 
	ETAsAhR6wAtHZIU43pQjby1z4bajv9JFMQIUTEPoJyREkpUxVCo1D+QBur8HWCI= 
	ETAsAhQkA3ZwGAb6SBi/idPf+rwuJg4x5QIUfGzlxrX/PPVptgMluscZZxeM9jU= 
	ETAtAhQTQijd3oNmTEFIIon2yKv91vsvyQIVAIhAmuifcTPFktpFKhLzM0ntxhcU 
	ETAtAhUAuCO8Cw+mJ7KDbN27E+I62psoaIMCFHuUXTbLq/j1j/4rYupshuJomRya 
	ETArAhRBWhJVOasV0A1A20nCJkJu8u2lLwITJqSvwch0mfQEClhvp5vQQ8pAGw== 
	ETAuAhUAtEkKY0D3xqGHIhZH/Xa0ZPGuLlYCFQCOGtAF9ZT3pRBceKRz4V6pLoZABA== 
	ETAsAhQzFgeoh3RUbVw1PDqn8PWtQLKEiAIUcP3njGJluNeWE8YfUQnZ7fzMuyM= 
	ETAtAhUAnukxvV3rVTTevI8i9f3L4Hu4kxECFH1+gX9LNGIUgQS/wR2gL2OCO/Gy 
	ETAsAhQlroqyoRe3Cy10DNGpoGJX1NnzFQIUfNcLR7JUZ4WP24Qxxm8vBNTOWxE= 
	ETAtAhUAgbKY3EpqRnq5ZBHVct+oGhuhJsUCFCliLMNHMjkBcC6csLRnb71xRIBU 
	ETAtAhUAkUywSArsUCkKw2jn+qqlbb9kweICFEFDEVcKdq2rf2OCHwFdYEeGPvdb 
	ETAuAhUAycTnvdbMocDVyg8n457jdNwPAkUCFQCCRT6pskZYL9YELer/28lDwEpWhQ== 
	ETAsAhQCyCyEASEsvFhSI1UnZyjIsEXswwIUK37xsGOxeZjE8XUuJlNYSaq60z0= 
	ETAtAhUAuyeGIvO7hPLZX3RkZ23WPz5pnBQCFATgTVkOtr7d5dw3dI2MuFg2Yjyg 
	ETAsAhQp1mKmV5HXCB065q9ZeIsiSncoHAIUez1bZufUUiziIJEOVBpxko8lwhg= 
	ETAtAhUApSBJ/in0OhbCkbjvQgNjbW0DaTcCFCzB387RaeGCJju9oJAXCKFZv1P8 
	ETAuAhUAuXv+9tqY0CVD5gZ9OQ2SFZh2plACFQC8/mlJxTAIAC33fGgDLHmxFnwMIQ== 
	ETAtAhQj2g60SCSUWWH+F2IyS0EGvZ1QswIVAK5YIaDRQer9EDlw++fTScCUFAFF 
	ETAsAhRSsX1uXoP3AD7gmn0cDfBeLOZwPQIUdZh5Yxd3KjAI6CZBBs6YfDzDh64= 
	ETAuAhUAgOHgS8JBGUP4si/0jzLh15ZVvGoCFQCz9Nk3OPoImBH4rVUKJ2F2vhf95g== 
	ETAsAhRTvVCgza5e2nwpJ7m92ZEacQ3ILgIUHkOaOBp8Ij2b82wRXfPMGueY3WI= 
	ETAsAhQhKr/enRcN9T+0DMJn8jUVJLAvDAIUc+gJX/L3Hnr9Gp1T0Wq3ZSJLcFw= 
	ETAsAhQwIxl6UF+LNb72GGgszRA7ZNbmCgIUICMCtgr/m48UFcb7gIFlGQO00vw= 
	ETAsAhQjkA65kdu5jlBHlIzk35jw5Y7DHQIUaXQZdb4Zz2s1Juq/M2H5egs/MYE= 
	ETAsAhQMDKryK8OJSRIPXKkulCCySRrTMgIUTKOfFlQKxotFbNZVZAOyA/YehWE= 
	ETAuAhUArhqDZyUN/gZjH6VmVftjzEgaQMkCFQCclDfi2CG3d8pqOU9CY0c3dQJg1g== 
	ETAuAhUAxvAyPvtl3+iudnG9Rmf92wgkI/0CFQDJogVpVzUE/4rJQPliDBocQE+bbQ== 
	ETAuAhUAofOrsT9qKPEBYXOAonfQ7aqGEZACFQCjSd5yKgtuK5Mn8BFhizugYiQgew== 
	ETAsAhRcj0hyx82gIOptjM5GgpLtV2jsswIUIOkt9YH+h1t62QwdbEvfLaB2Rdc= 
	ETAtAhUAq/XR7wsBjaSxsg8eb7A+uHXdvacCFE+p9l1c/5g5TP8OLzIFMltdBUZ7 
	ETAtAhRzRrANeu8O0Hfj+q+lP7Neh/7pyQIVAJ/dv3B+uqx7LPKLvqlAcV8U/avN 
	ETAuAhUAgJD+C+jLNEETkDLuFkOz5B+FnykCFQCBBpin/gx4S6CuxEEpNoMeREIiiA== 
	ETAtAhUAoPmrDvDMNlvbJjAFvMgl5+rQcqQCFFbZh4ziZK8ktg8Lfdjvy/w2ns8A 
	ETAtAhUAwJ8XVenz71M4WcI3PHFFWisQhqsCFCBc9groCubgB+J1ya3UZIyelRRI 
	ETAsAhQIfk7OjQOzOjwx4k01PS2R2n/fDQIUaWgpP45BiWYDobdqBfZAACw78/A= 
	ETAsAhQN4JWKwofxj23Q1TCO4b5XEVh3XAIUEDsmYUun6A3LRS7UhBo2XtEc/Wo= 
	ETAtAhUAkYXyom09QZ3u/SmeV1cr3c+H6AgCFGyy0eH6C8et6+khI3fzHZ7zAE3I 
	ETAtAhUAysHLGMPSDKQA2zoUWBKL6j9pbt8CFFBjwAkImliNL11O7sPSk6YU9rky 
	ETAtAhQJumDJ6gjeDueb+BVjIXjcIZW9QwIVAIG5iD8KiBlK8P587t4h6/yck3El 
	ETAtAhUAlB3AVdzu5vpN2uI2oIj6IrzLR6QCFHvZvy33w67WLHlFmPqyG6wDU7lb 
	ETAtAhUAtIyoc42UsajnqfC2L8mBeTJcmB0CFDxJ0ugTI+HVozFKh9JiG+5/TYsz 
	ETAtAhR6w4Oy2VaRNSrw04U5h+/osuIAIAIVAJYUmg9YzRJSu9EX4i5yERo3kdHZ 
	ETAsAhQwsNBpOYmtHhQc4W/UKPLT/YcqAQIUFSvekcKn0XGhMZj6reDidAxjj3U= 
	ETAtAhUAvW3kboabjmnhUty1ejxJvKD4HY8CFG4Rv3uVG/Q2R1Pt+02+NlMcFR1d 
	ETAtAhUAj3hge4loT9bWecqlMjXYmNSZeAUCFDD5CYYIedCXmWspicPr2S4gMv5b 
	ETAuAhUAgdDLLWRXQeRAEBCYZSYyUZXpT1UCFQCDpmxm5yKA7BkdkfjyYusQQeQwgg== 
	ETAtAhUAk8cO++8JZy1r32zAJVuyj307zEcCFEYzRntm0134uUySWJQrDwOdtZmP 
	ETAtAhUAr2bKMuDoD1GiGIhvXLRExLkcL3ECFFakZssdOptMkvwqBy/daYfwq4YO 
	ETAsAhRFbDek+wROhSNn5SHw0UBaWtwl2wIUTMHH+7XJVTPeJ3xHj/lZm84THVQ= 
	ETAtAhQGoQavXBaZTuW4zLGyp/e4KmFvswIVAJQ1JXKu4O9xCpT0k0yZK7RvmOI+ 
	ETAtAhUAp5tH7aLLsYjpTiY0j/aB8oQCNtsCFBFR0JPJFkXAWYBrIdp/OayxVRoL 
	ETAtAhRs+ECGcKAbo3VMDrFewzJF7OT0SwIVAKqqyCIdoTjvhU5XgfMCXQMxlz2N 
	ETAtAhUAhCQAoqBFNXfU4Wijw8TdWCmr4wECFDgsvxaLzIvngsVBxmVKXx+zIMKg 
	ETAsAhRvE5eMpSvrzcwo5Gr6L/S4EN81XwIUDMAycGBeYeELAB3WYvfHnjgHEBQ= 
	ETAsAhRvkxLPB26683CylraHakbDUJSZHQIURPbc45ET/4SBAfLfYwY6bn1fIrM= 
	ETAsAhRLITYHnVfD6a3lztzcI6h0X72LjgIUVET5oBjtlmgAVQPTFc11ZZuY0mU= 
	ETAsAhRIzKpkEMilLQtJi+ZbqspsinC62gIUJDKLOme36a+8wnFk77NckteYaB0= 
	ETAtAhQ1Z4DDDg6ZOpMfmpI6DhvNqEgbAAIVAIouWDxjRAAu3pRm/Mf+Ak/A/kNF 
	ETAsAhRgeq2jnTeyoiCdUkkqPK7o2pknLQIUDxsVJ4hRl8kSpJpI47txx9kfIkg= 
	ETAtAhR9zxD7Yi2X9lcLhDMRhDmQFQ5aVQIVAMS/iicusK0ws90gj+erFRdDGQHo 
	ETAtAhUApicy3P8GaBXR4hXTCCWb727B8nECFGLfqYB6b/2dnKJfqSNafvINScPc 
	ETAuAhUAt5AuH6NDL3ucVAI7eW6801nwGDACFQCoGWBqCteGf778iWvHlF9q+ZEEpQ== 
	ETAtAhUAvD8YPYoG49wx/isduMjN3S9Y5/cCFB75/wla8b83l5A567UuWpRw+Z5U 
	ETAsAhQKe8lOBzr2J+B1h93bAmF9tMaGXgIUTO+UIjTiJ7kB2ZELVX6DUIHpexs= 
	ETAsAhR4R36NOtkBC5NIRA1DRF354juLhQIUG/gEgTIB1gFQTinVjnI9A4HzSQE= 
	ETAtAhR7AFlqigoJFYD5SAdT+U4aYd9TBAIVAMd3Ofhg4dCGM+UQBx+2o9nlPw1R 
	ETAuAhUAv3Ky4WNvxsHfAGRRGMMZ9/3PBkkCFQCs6ge9tB+UKPMLIC6TbxmVxafknw== 
	ETAtAhUAjqlFEglvlQ06U5zhnC4t02PJgZcCFBJIXK5ZIgytKZi1yQvMzm3S1B76 
	ETAuAhUAtsmiLfXWXHc5Mk/rO0qoHFJOkWMCFQDDHkMCdTWL997znVbK42x/gA9FHw== 
	ETAsAhR+TIlG5jFEV00jOEuHUAhAIFNwAAIUBO+3RWL8uVsRhvKkfiV5Juh+XTM= 
	ETAuAhUAmJuiqHFajSGuQiDET9UVlBbtfjMCFQCZOwCDF/eVL1DhRX/pN24il6BKEw== 
	ETAuAhUAxDYBQL6xyZ02c21Y9RN5iu7yXrYCFQCdWV71LI999igld1UVaNTD5iBftw== 
	ETAtAhUAjyGwRgoScKu6BAzRY2zg04ICi08CFFgv6Yi7+TCSlgnBfdW1zdWfJOuL 
	ETAuAhUAm63QEE+IqVQfqXha/o4RDZsvYU8CFQCiuhzNmdVh9lju/YmrZJczICQv1A== 
	ETAtAhQzYt9e72GevGQmY/ETkAoKuDJovgIVALvyAVu6KcLEwzgK5eKU01Fi/gd0 
	ETAtAhQQ437FFbqAcuN0HcGuWtqpHg9UAAIVALCKy8xHGJCneqaQ7c4qnB/EP2Bm 
	ETAsAhQAr7vGYwpUdpqgl+eSzS0fDQvyZwIURkdnEGm8eK22XuEhmwLnyXe/iMY= 
	ETAsAhQ62Nxao3jlXYnqnsrYnbSPxIBpcwIUH2Oo3PQTMG6LPee0iQOcIDkw2tY= 
	ETAsAhQJtm05Gd+58mdF8nNqLWf5PP6m6QIUaoekh3+5zI42rvZaKiB/QwTgkQA= 
	ETAsAhQEXH5eHExs8/mYGcvdyRlgGuKBbQIUfDBnDZwU057FnAppJ529NzewQso= 
	ETAtAhRWSqFeRdfozaeh96MoWYibAWmjygIVAKQ7O8JKIadjeB3RtFxpD0ST062L 
	ETAtAhQo4aCMjUqH/4NejVIczwpG/SnsxgIVAJpwErFyKKTBKFlD/wEbPC1qnTZy 
	ETAsAhRqDCDXz3ROVA6UU5635T/zXDstKwIUCnyAqUjrtPZPFe2Ode7qhknU0Ns= 
	ETAtAhUAyIag46CHSEoG6lmUTt1kzjy+aVQCFGOvYugkt1IT+pD4RhK9rT7SvTiG 
	ETAtAhQdN2VyVJRUX/OpjXgpmX+xg7UEAAIVAI8HkB9X47D1rvxVQzC7nU3XuDsF 
	ETAtAhUAkGf27c0dvRWK9KRAFzRYDzIrkgkCFGAukRiOHe9Gs+/wzIupnhSkqN38 
	ETAsAhQmHznAIKFlzT9YJ7yHCSq8G2v++gIUMj0YZAAyJmp4ZphT4du78+pxxTQ= 
	ETAsAhRKupvhrK54jQFgyfwJ5wJ01TVp+gIUcCjOk5yrzrqYPjIPex4tSzYvyW8= 
	ETAtAhRaDIcUhPO0QJVymwBR9B04rSm+uAIVAJXmkufVLpf2xpSq2xU1y+bX1BZX 
	ETAtAhUAmoX/3Jq+K1dvdr4BFw+IJaoYXgUCFG32PfUf+enPmZsUdJjJxAGTLaHg 
	ETAtAhUAy6ir+ozc+np/keNWOz1/okURq2wCFElrN1Ok/6c+hS5VIOGMVeqmaqvm 
	ETAsAhR/TL+3ohpEnDLH3eJQMIB8h5a+NAIULFuiDpaJGv4NSU6V7RGOGzuEd8U= 
	ETAtAhQn+1R8M6pfIst3JXAk5Izj5N82KwIVAKM+iy2nHY1jopVswbEh7WHP2Vm1 
	ETAtAhR9VPu6S4Vnk7TmoxohlBWxiNo1cQIVAMFA844GD3YVJ7Arc2PS2fd0h3eV 
	ETAsAhRjiszmXhkKg9502LNwfmt0mS9cxAIUIUCgjiJ1FZrIU3WMMq25de+zN28= 
	ETAtAhUAitHnCcPhbXnVVCd2fzuYOWGa+UoCFFnyi+hp++XipM3fIWcO9P+qWEMx 
	ETAtAhUAhurREyBqW9VF5ykHjE0n+YbR2O8CFAoPje0cZITuzo6ttp+llUqH453H 
	ETAtAhQlEiN8wlOYC6dDKTLYfuvRUT7UjgIVAK4k16Z/Pz3obJjcM0AhXQn1OvvQ 
	ETAuAhUAtqyqp4dy8Q7d9rSC3ZN0blaPpPkCFQCShe129qI6NMlsxwhPB8dmhsWR3Q== 
	ETAtAhUAhm1TOOinajFZjW4SdF8EOe1NhzkCFDZFSC0iBSgSJgiqgc0jmXXBOkqy 
	ETAtAhUAt4hpnUEhZsxIvBr+0B+Yz0NZeEoCFAg4dSKOA+FqYl4UWZ728wwiUx67 
	ETAsAhReBwmVtOJ8XQuGr3kk9RsJP+4N5QIUDcEOpZPXde4K1RcVY4coMGbnUsA= 
	ETAtAhQSn7bQNB1U9LdNiQrDw6jQR3GEtgIVAL2JYZe1QPn8SKED7dEpjzf1+KQu 
	ETAsAhQ52g6I9NAjoL0W/vYyQrl3nGlvOgIUG963Y9liZTvB2u8XlGiRkyy64Xc= 
	ETAsAhRKw6mIP/azvTuasOQmlFEsnLiUJAIUZyYQ5UMLR+kt5HrWEZ2wGP0hOs0= 
	ETAtAhUAvWiD6UaXIt9qrtRnDwNriKMi9o4CFHSv+nq6fNIRhTAzaygMOltY41Vc 
	ETAtAhUApWxZlwHTwshbGCw15GAQ/T38lIkCFEJ4z4SRWzYu/xebe6RlwOJUmZKg 
	ETAuAhUAsfv94xNvbUI8elp11oQ6BySsPaMCFQCtlgO44ZPVa8xgGHjfdDQmr6/YoA== 
	ETAtAhUAyOYNI7+gTJ7/1MDrA/IgP/sufJgCFAkcBx2AUQ9dxlDXzj638eeuoC0J 
	ETAsAhRmVZrY8lzCqWS3lEf9DqfZc9X1VAIUPJsGbcBogMsBymwYyUj8zffOJXo= 
	ETAsAhQY42qDPZMSgnevP9UZUcQ0eI/PHgIUL4Wf8OPEKktJ63kX+khpK9UtOD8= 
	ETAtAhUAuCjJN13+LuTVa1JPlb8zxVxdCsgCFHs5b9TltWERAwOunzsK3lZQyEgN 
	ETAsAhRoQNMMD2/xBPzg+tK4IIumauQS2QIUB2eLNiFpDI3cxbYCKTCtRJ20bLE= 
	ETAtAhUAkRtHGuLuCR55XQvpDJpBdpH4ig0CFCtjk2J14l0GreGiuSn7t8AublVw 
	ETAtAhUAiqF3yN45jgfBNZw6dENZNnJzEKACFD9vve5oqtwvXjrFY5UPEV1ssh79 
	ETAsAhQ6c7u6zYORRsEcEuAsATvmF5vZ+wIUTsuHueTtaBWRtIzauaHqJ6R8oc4= 
	ETAtAhUAv+yS6ButjH920KIefR/aCEothQoCFHTK5/lZ28F02CT3FQUeOatuypyF 
	ETAtAhRW9RnK0G9J0AXmEOcllgypEGFi2wIVAMKs5oXfbM4QoIJhjj3ZvF8UazF8 
	ETAsAhQtZJEJB67l8p6wXx7xoB/wjxt6IwIUepp7tdaDmbl5SHW3ewPsWTsoBgA= 
	ETAtAhQJDSVuVm+gtYwUX8we/rk4mWpDbgIVALfiTWH+icbvzClfhzc20EaGUl59 
	ETAtAhUAkUt5tJuo5hbGQi/C1GKpPaoffK4CFEX+E+TSLH3CLxFczYb3qN0XNERv 
	ETAsAhQrX8z0FfakewuuyQDfT7SK/Vmr4gIUVPNwOF26XfBsWl/Hu4w0haObyKY= 
	ETAtAhUAmStVSJZ3e8qxt3M4QLw4Dto4wEACFHAzZR+yBk3useh/giLZHOmF3ilR 
	ETAuAhUAw/vxNPSIzpCKbHFAW8fEjnRBDu8CFQCYgC4xmbuoBYt9JEImr+u1RVCOSQ== 
	ETAtAhQ/+Dym2Q56B5Oa0bYrKKavftQztAIVAKkeOj2DceMbyMHFLlwoVHpZI+gZ 
	ETAsAhQVUf9KyQ6r0j08g86u5QBS1bKxDQIUNvdZZF9Cf4833g2HxshuGT6zH+U= 
	ETAtAhQmuS2ELdJsMjM383Eiic7ufYxPzAIVAMPDb4Qg0WIgXzy0KwQaYBFoPHwO 
	ETAsAhRLgDTH9lOH6Buy/3uBKT7X1RwGGAIUYhwe8Uqw9ZX07Z3OL6cdIUnMzjU= 
	ETAtAhRXuM959ZsT3geGcOQrkCze2GyLrgIVALtmxL/HoBgbHNUqrmfoksfIfwu7 
	ETAtAhUAygdWDBcXAX6TUNR4OqdSB8jegzMCFBOQcn4KXBJC+MtqxYACg88AnfOq 
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Greg Broiles 
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 13:14:21 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: nonviolent AP variant
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




At yesterday's physical cypherpunks meeting in Palo Alto, Steve Schear and
I were talking about the practical/legal/moral aspects of the
"assassination politics" scheme; during the course of that conversation,
we discussed the possibility that a similar scheme might usefully be
employed in a non-violent context, assuming the existence of a working
(=legitimate) legal or political system.

In a nutshell (this is my later gloss on things we discussed, so confusion
should be blamed on me), the system might be organized as follows:

One or more organizers announce their intention to create a prize pool
concerning a certain question - for example, "The circumstances under
which Bill Clinton's presidency ends." The organizers would then collect
contributions towards a prize pool to be awarded to the person with the
most accurate guess, as well as guesses about the subject matter of the
general question. Depending on the gambling/contest laws of the local
jurisdiction, the organizers might or might not choose to require a
contribution towards the pool in order to register a guess/prediction.

Further, the organizers would likely choose to reject any guesses which
required or implied the breaking of laws (or the wrongful initiation of
force), as they'd prefer not to be investigated/prosecuted in the event
that a guesser did something illegal/wrong in hopes of collecting the
prize.

The contest would then proceed - guesses would likely be held
confidentially, time-stamped, to minimize piling on (especially where
entry is free). Third parties with information or the ability to
legitimately modify the outcome of the contest - for example, former
mistresses or business partners who might come forward with otherwise
withheld evidence of wrongdoing - would have a strong motivation to
provide as detailed a guess as possible, including their particular
information, and then to make that information available to the
legal/political system so that it would be acted upon.

If the prize pool grew large enough, the subject of the question might
choose to force the resolution, winning the prize for themselves - e.g.,
if $10M is enough to tempt Clinton from office, he can predict his own
resignation (e.g., "Clinton will resign on Oct 31, 1998, wearing a blue
suit and a yellow striped tie; the last sentence of his speech will be
'Darlin', let's git the truck packed, I'm outta here!'")  

This modification of the "AP" process has several advantages - it's
probably legal, it's nonviolent, and it's likely to encourage (rather than
undermine) cooperative/consensual governance, instead of rule by
fear/force. It seems to be the result of a combination of the "idea
futures" system and the reward process for Eric Rudolph as interpreted by
Bo Gritz - e.g., get the figure high enough, and the target will turn
himself in and use the reward to fund his own defense. 

It definitely needs a better name than "assassination politics". 

--
Greg Broiles
gbroiles@netbox.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 04:47:37 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Hidden WebTV signatures
Message-ID: <199810112027.WAA06963@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Peter Gutmann writes:

> For those of you who don't read sci.crypt, Robert Ames  has 
> posted an article in which he observes that all WebTV posts contain an 
> X-WebTV-Signature: line containing base64-encoded data.  For samples of 
> WebTV-generated posts, try the alt.weemba newsgroup, which is filled with 
> WebTV-user drool (caution: remember to employ protection when exposting your 
> mind to the content of the messages).  Some samples:
>  
> X-WebTV-Signature: 1
>         ETAsAhQDqtur/jfleJ2CDOnNrVoeyALEQAIUOQyCBbzjx5HHfxeMERDgCjztXOU= 
> X-WebTV-Signature: 1
>         ETAtAhUAmCCzQt+Tqt6fNX+L9+gDCECaqQkCFA0YCPz5tk85mUgq7iX/u4vWvOgG 

Could someone grep their news spool for a few hundred of these signatures
and post them here?  We can do statistical analysis on them and determine
whether they all appear to be modulo the same q value.

> These decode into ASN.1-encoded DSA signatures, eg:
>  
>    1 30   45: SEQUENCE {
>    3 02   21:   INTEGER
>             :     00 98 20 B3 42 DF 93 AA DE 9F 35 7F 8B F7 E8 03
>             :     08 40 9A A9 09
>   26 02   20:   INTEGER
>             :     0D 18 08 FC F9 B6 4F 39 99 48 2A EE 25 FF BB 8B
>             :     D6 BC E8 06
>             :   }
>  
> for the second one.  The key isn't included in the header, presumably the 
> @webtv.net address can be tied to the hardware which contains some hardcoded 
> DSA key.  I wonder if WebTV users know they're signing each message they send?

If they are DSA signatures, they should all be mod q, where q is some 160
bit prime.  Whether everyone uses the same key or different keys, they
probably all share p and q.  In that case the histogram of the values should
be flat up to a cutoff point.  We need to collect some hundreds of these
values in order to distinguish them from random 160 bit values.

The largest q value found in a dozen or so alt.weemba messages from
dejanews started with 0xc0, so q must be at least this large if they
are DSA sigs.  This amount of data was not sufficient to distinguish
from alternate theories, such as that each person has a random 160 bit q.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 14:52:56 +0800
To: Greg Broiles 
Subject: Re: nonviolent AP variant
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199810120632.XAA25308@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



if you guys spent any fraction of the amount of time
thinking about "assassination politics" as a way to
improve government, as you did about the legitimate
ways that are already available, I think the world
would soon be turned into a better place.

there are obvious ways of improving the government
that are not being tried. but far easier to take
the nihilistic "cryptoanarchy" pseudo-ideology
of insisting that government is inherently
evil, and any thoughts about improving it are
inherently sinful and misguided, i.e. blasphemous.

the truth is that sheeple are immature and lazy, 
incapable of planning their destiny past the next
6 pack, and therefore fully deserving of their stormy fate
at the hands of a small elite who takes organization
seriously-- with only the small unfortunately twist
that they are all self-serving parasites.

perhaps an economic crash is a natural intermittent human event
that says to the public, "wake up"!! a crisis is always
a sign of a kind of false image crumbling under 
truth/reality which will ultimately puncture all
lies (but will not deliver slaves from self-imposed
slavery, if that is their conscious or unconscious choice).






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Blanc" 
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 17:02:05 +0800
To: 
Subject: RE: nonviolent AP variant
In-Reply-To: <199810120632.XAA25308@netcom13.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <000701bdf5bb$5b5309a0$2b8195cf@blanc>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>From Vladimir Z. Nurd:

: if you guys spent any fraction of the amount of time
: thinking about "assassination politics" as a way to
: improve government, as you did about the legitimate
: ways that are already available, I think the world
: would soon be turned into a better place.


So what are you going to do about it if they don't, Neuro -  get on the list and
whine?


: the truth is that sheeple are immature and lazy,
: incapable of planning their destiny past the next
: 6 pack, and therefore fully deserving of their stormy fate
: at the hands of a small elite who takes organization
: seriously-- with only the small unfortunately twist
: that they are all self-serving parasites.


The sheeple deserve it, but the rest of us don't.
Consider abandoning them to their fate.


   ..
Blanc




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 08:26:23 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com
Subject: Anon poster claims anon remailers broken
Message-ID: <199810120007.CAA25757@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>PS. there is someone on this list who knows who
>i am. yes there is someone who knows who anon
>posters are. we fucking hate you and am waiting
>for you to take the trap and we will reveal your
>identity scumbag.

I don't post here much and in fact I haven't in at least a month
or two, but I'm willing to take this challenge.

Since you know who anon posters are, who am I?




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 12:59:28 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Hidden WebTV signatures
Message-ID: <199810120441.GAA12553@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Phelix writes:
> Here ya go.  313 webtv sigs

Thanks.  Each of these decodes to a pair of integer values, as described
by Peter Gutmann.  Here is a histogram of the high order hex digit:

# Values    Digit
   54         0
   35         1
   56         2
   49         3
   43         4
   50         5
   47         6
   57         7
   45         8
   43         9
   49         a
   54         b
   44         c
    0         d
    0         e
    0         f
   
It cuts off at "c" and is pretty uniform up to then so it does indicate
that the values are uniformly distributed modulo a common 64 bit value.
The last few values, numerically, are:

cac1cb18c3d20ca400db3a1458128bea3f696edf
cae7ea1cff68371b6541a829d6a5327bf77b8ba4
cb6449fb156e3b7a0f9577a9163dab099540360d
cb9e0b23cdfebac34c38a933fcf303a5ecac64eb
cba8abfa8cdcfa7a7f91e3563b3d7fa24511ab6c
cc1a7a3ac5107a17fd7d0957223a189ac9b692b7
cc4d60e041b32e85d8148a2a340f3ae6c2a6f02c
cc9d2ed06373569225844c8b0bd2e7c55537ab71
cd53fb5bc7699730b39d42b99782fecfdfe52a5a

This suggests that the "q" value is probably a 160 bit value starting
with 0xcd.

We can't tell whether there is a common key or whether every unit has a
different key.  In either case it is likely that p, q and g will be shared
among all units.  The individual part is the secret x value and the
public y = g^x mod p.  Probably there is no way to find these from
the signatures.

For reference, here is the 20 minute program which produced this output:


/* Decode webtv signatures */
#include 
#include 

#define TAG_INTEGER     2
#define TAG_SEQUENCE    16


static
unsigned char asctobin[] =
{
    0200, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0200,
    0200, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0200,
    0200, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0200,
    0200, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0200,
    0200, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0200,
    0200, 0200, 0200, 0076, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0077,
    0064, 0065, 0066, 0067, 0070, 0071, 0072, 0073,
    0074, 0075, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0200,
    0200, 0000, 0001, 0002, 0003, 0004, 0005, 0006,
    0007, 0010, 0011, 0012, 0013, 0014, 0015, 0016,
    0017, 0020, 0021, 0022, 0023, 0024, 0025, 0026,
    0027, 0030, 0031, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0200,
    0200, 0032, 0033, 0034, 0035, 0036, 0037, 0040,
    0041, 0042, 0043, 0044, 0045, 0046, 0047, 0050,
    0051, 0052, 0053, 0054, 0055, 0056, 0057, 0060,
    0061, 0062, 0063, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0200, 0200
};



/* Do base64 decoding */
/* Return number of chars output */
static int
decode64 (const unsigned char *inbuf, unsigned char *outbuf)
{
    int w = 0;
    int cnt = 0;
    int ci, co;
    unsigned char *op = outbuf;

    for ( ; ; ) {
        ci = (*inbuf++);
        if (ci & 0x80)
            break;
        co = asctobin[ci];
        if (co & 0x80)
            break;
        w = (w << 6) | co;
        if (++cnt == 4) {
            *op++ = (w >> 16) & 0xff;
            *op++ = (w >>  8) & 0xff;
            *op++ = (w >>  0) & 0xff;
            cnt = 0;
            w = 0;
        }
    }
    if (cnt == 1) {
        fprintf (stderr, "Bad base64 input\n");
        exit (1);
    } else if (cnt == 2) {
        *op++ = (w >>  4) & 0xff;
    } else if (cnt == 3) {
        *op++ = (w >> 10) & 0xff;
        *op++ = (w >>  2) & 0xff;
    }
    return op - outbuf;
}

/* Print out a nominally 20 byte value */
static void
hexdump20 (unsigned char *data, size_t datalen)
{
    if (datalen > 20) {
        int cnt = datalen - 20;
        while (cnt--) {
            if (*data++ != 0) {
                fprintf (stderr, "Error, more than 20 byte output\n");
                return;
            }
        }
        datalen = 20;
    }
    if (datalen < 20) {
        int cnt = 20 - datalen;
        while (cnt--)
            printf ("00");
    }
    while (datalen--) {
        printf ("%02x", *data++);
    }
    putchar ('\n');
}


/* Read start of an X.509 object */
static int
decodetag(unsigned char **buf, int *length)
{
    unsigned char tag = *(*buf)++ & 0x1f;
    int len = *(*buf)++;
    if (len & 0x80) {
        int lenlen = len & 0x7f;
        len = 0;
        while (lenlen--) {
            len <<= 8;
            len |= *(*buf)++;
        }
    }
    *length = len;
    return tag;
}


main ()
{
    unsigned char buf[1024];
    unsigned char *bp;
    unsigned char outbuf[1024];
    unsigned char *op;
    int outlen;
    int len;
    int tag;

    while (fgets(buf, sizeof(buf), stdin)) {
        bp = buf;
        while (isspace(*bp))
            ++bp;

        outlen = decode64 (bp, outbuf);

        if (outbuf[0] != 0x11) {
            fprintf (stderr,
                "First char of output not 0x11, unexpected!\n");
        }
        op = outbuf + 1;
        tag = decodetag (&op, &len);
        if (tag != TAG_SEQUENCE) {
            fprintf (stderr, "Output is not a SEQUENCE, skipping\n");
            continue;
        }
        tag = decodetag (&op, &len);
        if (tag != TAG_INTEGER) {
            fprintf (stderr, "First value is not an INTEGER, skipping\n");
            continue;
        }
        hexdump20 (op, len);
        op += len;
        tag = decodetag (&op, &len);
        if (tag != TAG_INTEGER) {
            fprintf (stderr, "Second value is not an INTEGER, skipping\n");
            continue;
        }
        hexdump20 (op, len);
    }
    exit (0);
}




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 14:11:42 +0800
To: mail2news@basement.replay.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199810120542.HAA16084@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 21:22:22 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Court ruling allows anonymous political attacks
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Delivered-To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
X-Sender: believer@telepath.com
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 04:14:44 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com
From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Court ruling allows anonymous political attacks
Mime-Version: 1.0
Sender: owner-ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
Precedence: list
Reply-To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  The Oregonian
http://www.oregonlive.com/todaysnews/9810/st101108.html

Court ruling allows anonymous attacks

 Viciousness increases after the U.S. Supreme Court
 strikes down an Oregon law requiring that political
 ads be credited

 Sunday, October 11 1998

 By Laura Oppenheimer of The Oregonian staff

 Terry Thompson and Ryan Deckert opened their
 mailboxes in mid-September to discover unpleasant
 surprises: anonymous political advertisements
 lambasting their public records.

 The two Democratic Oregon House members
 apparently were the first targets in what promises to
 be a vicious advertising attack season. And there's still
 plenty of time for candidates to exchange barbs
 before the Nov. 3 election, said Tim Gleason, dean of
 the University of Oregon School of Journalism and
 Communication.

 "This is the true test, said Gleason, who is coordinator
 of the Oregon Alliance for Better Campaigns. Races
 tighten up, and people are going all out. Frequently,
 the candidate isn't really in control of all the steps
 taken toward the end. A lot of people want that
 candidate to win.

 Although the ads against Thompson and Deckert
 included their opponents return addresses, as
 mandated by the U.S. Postal Service, they did not say
 who paid for or authorized them. Some candidates
 are taking advantage of a 1996 U.S. Supreme Court
 ruling that invalidated Oregons law requiring the
 sponsors name to run with all political advertising.

 Bills proposed during the 1997 Legislature would
 have reinstated regulations to counteract the court
 ruling. But the legislation stalled at the committee level
 and never came up for a vote.

 Oregons public officials didnt just maintain the level of
 negative attack ads by ignoring the legislation,
 Secretary of State Phil Keisling said. They raised the
 profile of the ruling so candidates knew they could run
 anonymous advertisements.

 "The Legislature just turned their backs on it, Keisling
 said. Their inaction spoke volumes about their
 concern about anonymous ads. The effect was to put
 up a big neon sign saying, Anonymous attack ads now
 allowed in Oregon.

 So whats the big deal about one little line of type that
 says paid for by . . . ? In a political climate where
 sparring can lead to voters cynicism, candidates
 should take responsibility for their criticisms, Keisling
 said. And all-out advertising slugfests can result in
 hard feelings -- and more partisan politics -- after the
 election is over, legislators said.

 "The truth matters, said Ed Kammer, an advertising
 activist who lobbied legislators to pass new
 regulations. The facts matter. Its a persons right to
 ignore what they want to ignore, but its not a thiefs
 right to disguise the theft.

 Many legislators, including Thompson, D-Newport,
 and Deckert, D-Beaverton, said they would support
 the type of legislation Keisling advocates if it is
 proposed again during the 1999 Legislature.

 In the meantime, candidates are free to be as vicious
 as they want. Aware of just how nasty this campaign
 season could become, several groups are pushing
 voluntary codes of conduct to stop the underhanded
 advertising before it starts.

 About 50 candidates signed Keislings Stand By Your
 Ad pledge, which requires them to include their name
 and address on all political advertising and to take
 responsibility for any criticism of their opponents. That
 means using their pictures in written material, narrating
 a radio ad and appearing on-screen in a TV
 commercial if it involves a comparison of candidates.

 Many candidates also signed the League of Women
 Voters code of conduct, which was adopted by the
 Oregon Alliance for Better Campaigns. The alliance,
 which is not counting the number of signers or keeping
 track of how candidates who took the pledge behave,
 is asking candidates to keep campaigns clean. The
 alliance also is coordinating issue-oriented, analytical
 political coverage on TV and radio stations across the
 state.

 "Its no more complicated than one of the things my
 mom told me growing up, Keisling said of his pledge.
 If youre going to say something bad about somebody,
 say it to their face.

 But nobody will be reprimanding candidates who
 violate the pledges or choose not to sign them. And
 for some candidates, sticking with the pledge will
 mean not responding to jabs at their character,
 credibility or public record.

 In mid-September, voters received a mailing with the
 headline, What was Terry thinking? In a large-print
 checklist, the ad compares Thompson with
 Republican Alan Brown, his opponent in House
 District 4.

 "Supports returning the income tax kicker refund
 shows a no for Thompson and a yes for Brown. So
 does the campaigns are bankrolled by big labor
 unions category. Thompson said many of the
 footnotes supporting these criticisms were based on
 one detail of a large bill or on bills that never came to
 a vote.

 Amid these sweeping accusations, Brown did not
 include a statement that his campaign had paid for the
 flier. Several years ago, the ad would have violated
 Oregon law.

 Henri Schauffler, Deckerts Republican opponent, said
 he would change one thing about his September fliers
 if he had it to do over again: Hed include the
 sponsorship. But he would keep the derogatory
 rundown of his opponents record, which included
 claims that Deckert believes voting against small
 business 57 percent of the time is acceptable and
 supports spending 2 percent kicker tax refunds to
 fund state government programs.

 Schauffler, who signed Keislings pledge, said he did
 not design the anonymous ads and regrets allowing
 them to be distributed.

 "Against my better judgment, I went ahead with the
 ads, Schauffler said. Im ultimately responsible, and I
 take responsibility for that mistake. Its not going to
 happen again from my camp.

 Deckert said he received more than 100 calls, e-mail
 messages and letters of support from voters who had
 seen the attack ads against him.

 Victims of negative ads face enormous pressure to
 retaliate, candidates said. In past elections, party
 workers have even suggested that Thompson hire a
 detective to spy on his opponent, he said.
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




**********************************************
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with the message:
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--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mok-Kong Shen 
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 14:23:49 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: NT 5.0 and EFS -- A victory for widespread use of crypto?
In-Reply-To: <361BF3ED.8111C033@bitstream.net>
Message-ID: <3621A939.4D2E7FC1@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> On Wed, Oct 07, 1998 at 06:06:21PM -0500, Steve Dunlop wrote:
> 
> So what's DESX?

DESX is DES with 'whitening' of input and output. See B. Schneier,
Applied Cryptography, 2nd ed., p.295.

M. K. Shen




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Martinus Luther" 
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 23:48:19 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Two Jims, Werner and Matt redefine socialism for their own ends
Message-ID: <19981012150355.2145.qmail@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I never replied to any of the threads about about monopolies and freedom 
and government intervention because it was all so off-topic. But 
*really*. Saying Rosa Luxemburg wasn't a communist is like, totally off 
the wall: 

Werner Koch wrote:


> "Die Freiheit des Einzelnen endet dort,
>  wo sie die Freiheit der Anderen einschränkt."
>  Rosa Luxemburg
>  The freedom of an individual ends, as it (the freedom)
>  limits the freedom of the others.
> [This was one of the former Eastern Germany liberty 
> movements' slogans  -  and not a communists one]

She was a founder-bloody-member  of the German Communist party! 

A 100% died-in the wool far-left feminist socialist and CP member. Just 
because the state capitalists of the old Soviet Union subverted what 
remained of the German left and turned it into an instrument of foreign 
domination and repression doesn't mean that Rosa wasn't a real 
communist, or a real socialist. It was the apparatchiks and the 
beauraucrats who stole the name, not her. The US equivalent at the time 
might be  Eugene Debs (or even Joe Hill - a prophet better honoured 
outside his own country - although he would probably be happier to be 
associated with anarchists than communists). 

Oh look, you've got me started.

Jim Choate wrote "Another potential flaw in current economic theory" and 
more or less gave a definition of centrist, liberal socialism as it 
applies to business. The sort of "3rd way"  views that the right-wing 
Labour government in UK might have had when they were out of office 
(being elected moved them even further to the right & the word 
"socialism" hardly applies any more).  As Jim pointed out  the practice 
of giving all the gain to the owners inevitably alienates the workers.

But when Jim Burnes  - much more naive poltically - said it was 
"socialist", Jim C. vehemently denied it! It seems that the *word* 
Socialist for you guys has become an insult, without substantive 
meaning, it isn't actually a label for socialism any more, when you want 
to talk about real socialism you have to find new words.  Just like your 
bloodthirsty government made the word "communist" an insult in the 1940s 
and 50s - for McCarthy and Hoover and their  friends "communist" didn't 
mean "communist" it meant "a person we don't like and intend to 
persecute".  Which is maybe why Werner had to say Rosa wasn't a 
"communist". He had taken on board the US definition of "communist" as 
insulting and was no longer able to use the word about someone of whom  
he approved.

And them Jim went and ruined all by writing:

> Socialism is the belief that property is best managed and owned by
> the government. 

Well, some people who have called themselves socialists have believed 
that. It was especially popular at the turn of the century. But many of 
us never believed that and almost none of us do now.

> Fascism is the belief that property should be owned by private
> individuals but managed by governments.

No, not really. Fascism is a belief in the organic reality of the nation 
and in the priority of the nation's interests over the individuals. 
Fascism tends to glorify the army (socialists are usually suspicious of 
it) to ally with traditionalist elements in society (such as the 
aristocracy or the Roman church), to be racist and narrowly nationalist 
(Socialists are more likely to be into diversity, "rainbow coalitions" 
and to be internationalist, at lest in their rhetoric) and to be 
strongly authoritarian, especially about personal behaviour. 

> Capitalism is the belief that property should be owned and managed by 
the individual.

In which case why is so much property owned and managed by companies? 
Why does our capitialist system result in so many working for others, 
rather than themselves?  "Sargeant, where's mine?". Capitalism is a 
society where, overwhelmingly, property is owned and managed by 
*someone* *else*, usually some corporate body or faceless beauracracy. 
Whether that *someone* *else* is a limited company as it almost always 
is in the US, or a branch of government as it almost always was in the 
state-capitalist Soviet Union makes little difference.

In fact, given the choice, and living in a representative democracy, I 
prefer the government-run business to the corporation-run one, 
especially if it is local government, because at least I have the vote.  
The two largest employers round where I live are a multinational bank 
and local government. I can vote for my councillors. Some of them I my 
neighbours.   I can even meet them and have a beer with them. They might 
not do what I want but at least they have to pretend to listen.   I'll 
never meet the CEO of that bank, or members of the board. They live in a 
different country from me. They have corporate jets and chauffer-driven 
cars and holiday on private islands. I'd probably have to be a 
millionaire to drink in the same bars as them.  I dislike State control 
of business but it isn't half as bad as the faceless beauracracies of 
the banks, the phone companies, the big drug companies and so on.

If there *was* a society where all property was owned and operated 
managed by individuals working for themselves it would be something like 
Belloc and Chesterton's "distributivism".  The Biblical hope of "each 
man under his own vine and his own fig tree" or the 17th century English 
dream of "3 acres and a cow".  Nearer to socialist anarchism than to 
anything else  -  nothing to do with capitalism at all. 

How many of you have a mortgate or pay rent? Capitalism means that 
someone else owns your house. How many of you work for a corporation? 
Capitalism means that someone else owns your job. Don't believe the 
bullshit about "private ownership". Capitalism means that someone else 
gets to own everything, the rest of us just get to work for them.

But then Jim B. restored my faith in Jim C. my making the most childish 
statement yet:

> You imply that the employees and employers interests are not the same. 

It is so pathetically obvious that they are *not* the same that it's 
hard to answer this without farting.   Both employee and shareholder 
have an interest in paying for investment - the employee to keep the 
business going, and keep their job, the investor to raise the capital 
value.  But after investment there is a pot of money to be split (or 
should be, if the company is viable).   If it goes to shareholders in 
dividends, it doesn't go to workers in wages. If it goes to workers, it 
doesn't go to shareholders. A conflict of interest. Shareholders and 
managers have an interest in getting more work out of an employee for 
the same wages - whether by longer hours, or by automation or by  
training. A worker doesn't have that interest unless the extra 
production is returned to them in wages. Which it usually isn't, else 
where would profits come from?

You Americans  think you can defuse socialism by defining it as "state 
control of industry"  (an idea which most of the left has rejected for 
40 or 50 years now and a great many never accepted in the first place)  
and then accuse people of playing with definitions to make a point!

Read : http://www.web.net/~newsoc/documents/Draper.html which says all 
this at greater length than I've got time for. 

It kicks off with a great quote from William Morris:

"... I pondered all these things, and how men fight and lose the battle, 
and the thing that they fought for comes about in spite of their defeat, 
and when it comes turns out not to be what they meant, and other men 
have to fight for what they meant under another name..." 

You Yankee conservatives and your so-called libertarian (but, in 
practice, always almost authoritarian) friends may think you can get rid 
of socialism by defining it out of existence but it will rise again, 
even if it has to be under another name.

And then Matt Gering replied to Ken Brown:

>> A monopolisitic supplier of some good has a measure 
>> of political power.

> Political power gums at the mean end of a gun, what political power do
> monopolies have and how?

And I was almost knocked over by the innocence, ignorance and naievety 
of such a statement. What political power do monopolies have?  The power 
to deny you things you need to live. The power to deny you the means to 
earn a living.  Political and economic power go hand in hand, as they 
always have. You can never have one without the other.

If there is only one employer in a town then anyone born there must 
either leave or knuckle under.  Remember "I sold my soul to the company 
stores".

And what's this crap about the shareholders bearing the risk and the 
workers not? Is giving years of your life to some enterprise that then 
gets sold from under your feet and closed down not a risk? Is going donw 
a mine, not a risk, or to sea, or standing in front of a class of 
screaming kids, or working the late night shift in a burger bar, or 
driving a tractor, or cleaning the streets? You don't have to have any 
romantic workerist notions about the dignity of labour to realise that 
workers have a risk, and an interest.  

It two take similar jobs with different companies, both work for years, 
getting promoted, putting aside a pension, and one is suddenly made 
redundant, "let go", because the incompetance or whim of the bosses has 
ruined the company, hasn't that person lost something? Haven't they made 
an investment of their time, their thought, their life?  Even an office 
worker, a beauraucrat, a clerk even a computer programmer (gasp!) brings 
their chips to put on the table.

As GK Chesterton said it isn't the rich who have the greatest interest 
in society. They can always get on the next boat to Borneo. It is the 
ordinary folk who have to stay behind and clean up the mess the rich 
leave behind them.

Unlike what Matt Gering said monopoly power *does* "come out of the 
barrel of a gun" - it is preserved by  military and police authority. 
The forms of "ownership" under which most  big businesses operate - 
things like the joint stock company, or limited liability  - are not 
natural, they do not arise out of common human attributes (if they did 
they would be universal, whereas they didn't appear until they were 
invented in Holland or England less than 500 years ago). They are 
defined and controlled by the political process. 

Just like previous forms of ownership. The feudal system was not 
"natural", slavery is not "natural", the monastic ownership of huge 
tracts of land was not "natural", the king's right to appropriate land 
from intestate barons and minor heiresses was not "natural". The 
politics of the time - as always more or less run (but not entirely  
public opinion and tradition count for somethign even in a dictatorship 
or absolute monarchy) by the rich and the well-armed; but as always, in 
a state of tension between and various interest groups - the politics of 
the time defined what counted as ownership and backed it up with fire 
and the sword.  A peasant could take his master to court and claim to be 
free (the longest court case in English history was the inhabitants of a 
village in Oxfordshire suing their lord for their freedom) but if the 
peasant tried to farm the lord's land - well what are men-at-arms for?

And that's the same now. Great property, the ownership of land or 
shares, the ownership of the products of other people's work, to be 
disposed of at will as if it was  a comb or a pen, is a social 
construction. Like money itself it exists because folk choose to believe 
that it exists. If we all stopped behaving as if great property existed, 
it would cease to exist. It is somethign that is in our minds, not 
nature. If shopkeepers lose respect for your dollar bills or your credit 
cards or your gold bars (other than as a useful and beautiful metal) you 
will not be able spend your wealth. That respect for money is buttressed 
by the state.  

If farmworkers lose their respect for the land rights of the owner and 
start planting crops in their own right, then the owner will no longer 
own - unless they can get the state, the police, the army, to help them.  
At this point so-called libertarians interject & say that the 
libertarian owner will defend his property with his own gun - but one 
man can't fight off 20 or 30 - they have to get their friends and 
neighbours to join in, or hire guards - and that's back to politics 
again. It may not be a "state" (although that's a matter of definition)  
but when people band together to defend what they see as their property 
it is certainly politics. That's what politics is, how people live 
together in numbers. The gunwankers may fancy themselves libertarians 
but really all they are pleading for is the right for them and their 
friends - their guards, their police - to oppress the workers. US 
so-called liberatarianism, hand in hand with the most blatant forms of 
capitalism, the instutionalised rascism of US society and the gunwanking 
fantasies of the pampered hooligans who call themselves "libertarians" 
would inevitably lead not to freedom from the State but to the 
imposition of hundreds or thousands of mini-States, each as brutal as 
the next.  You would be better off in Albania or Burundi. 

Most assets in our society are owned by corporations, not by natural 
persons. They are socially and legally defined. The law - backed by the 
State, the police, the army and the courts - grants limited liability to 
shareholders. That might even be a good idea, it encourages investment 
and reduces the number of destitute capitalists begging on street 
corners. But it isn't at all the same thing as natural, ordianary 
property rights, and it is 100% political power and not far from Mao's 
gun barrel.

Sometimes I have to remember that I am dealing with Americans here. You 
are all, well, most of you, hopelessly naive about politics, caught up 
in your little local squabbles. You are taking the mote out of you rleft 
eye and ignoring the beam in your own right eye.  How can anyone take 
eriously a country that makes more fuss about where Clinton put his 
cigar than it  did about Oliver North's terror squads buying weapons for 
mass-murder in Nicaragua with profits made form selling cocaine in the 
USA? And if Reagan *didn't* know then he should have been removed from 
office as medically unfit. And we *know* Bush knew. And the fucking 
Republicans voted him in afterwards. 

It's always the same with conservatives - they make libertarian noises  
but when push comes to shove they turn out to be the same old 
authoritarian ruling class who have been kicking us around for 
centuries. It's almost as bad in England. The Tory Party actually has 
*two* right wings: the big-business-friendly free traders (who tend to 
dominate when they are in power) and the blue-rinse backwoodsmen who are 
in to Queen and Country and tend to come to the fore when in opposition. 
The first sort would be Libertarians if they weren't Tories. The second 
sort would be fascists. They are the reason 17 years of Tory government 
made no real contribution to civil liberties in Britain. Whenever the 
Tories are scared of losing power they put away their free-trade and 
libertarian principles and out coem the bigots, the racists, the petty 
nationalists, the hounds baying for blood. Evil shits the lot of them.

Eugene Debs is supposed to have said: "Too long have the workers of the 
world waited for some Moses to lead them out of bondage. He has not 
come; he never will come. I would not lead you out if I could; for if 
you could be led out, you could be led back again. I would have you make 
up your minds that there is nothing you cannot do for yourselves."

That's authentic socialism. 

No leader will save us - if we have leaders we don't have freedom. No 
elite of gun-toting so-called libertarians will make the works a better 
place - thay are part of the problem, not part of the solution. No 
cypherpunk who thinks that the rest of us are worthless sheeple will 
ever get anywhere. People have to do it for themselves, together.

It is a fallen world. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of 
God. No man is more fitted than any other to rule. All political power 
will lead to corruption, and all economic power is political power. To 
be rich is inevitably to be corrupted, not because the rich are greater 
sinners than the poor but because the rich have more power than the 
poor, and all are sinners and all will abuse power.  We try to use 
democracy and the vote to protect ourselves against the abuse of 
political power by those who think they know better than us. We need to 
protect ourselves  against the abuse of economic power in the same way.


John the Ranter

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Eric Murray 
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 23:44:30 +0800
To: mok-kong.shen@stud.uni-muenchen.de
Subject: Re: IP: Different Approaches to Privacy Issue: OECD
In-Reply-To: <3621BBDC.F59EA4AB@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
Message-ID: <199810121509.IAA00564@slack.lne.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Mok-Kong Shen writes:
> 
> Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote:
> > 
> 
> > 09 October 1998
> > 
> > OECD CONFERENCE ACCEPTS DIFFERENT APPROACHES TO
> > PRIVACY ISSUE
>  
> > Ottawa -- A conference of 29 industrialized countries for promoting
> > electronic commerce has resolved a controversy between the United
> > States and the European over Internet privacy by accepting both points
> > of view.
> > 
> > The United States contended industry should be left to manage the
> > problem by itself, but the European Union had demanded a government
> > regulatory approach.
> 
> This 'sounds' like the US is opposed to having any crypto regulations!??


No, the US is opposed to any privacy regulations.  "electronic commerce"
now means so many things that you have to consider it to be a comment
phrase that adds no meaning to the sentence in which it resides.


-- 
Eric Murray          N*Able Technologies                    www.nabletech.com
(email:  ericm  at the sites lne.com or nabletech.com)     PGP keyid:E03F65E5




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Gillogly 
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 00:47:04 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: FBI to inaugurate national DNA database
Message-ID: <36222B37.1F29FA01@acm.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



SJMC retails a report from today's NYT:

http://www.sjmercury.com/breaking/docs/084314.htm

Executive summary:

- Computer at secret location
- Access limited to LE
- All sex offenders get to contribute; felons in some States;
  other contributors not yet determined. 

-- 
	Jim Gillogly
	Highday, 21 Winterfilth S.R. 1998, 16:12
	12.19.5.10.14, 5 Ix 7 Yax, Seventh Lord of Night




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mok-Kong Shen 
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 15:43:37 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: IP: Different Approaches to Privacy Issue: OECD
In-Reply-To: <199810110537.WAA18794@netcom13.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <3621BBDC.F59EA4AB@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote:
> 

> 09 October 1998
> 
> OECD CONFERENCE ACCEPTS DIFFERENT APPROACHES TO
> PRIVACY ISSUE
 
> Ottawa -- A conference of 29 industrialized countries for promoting
> electronic commerce has resolved a controversy between the United
> States and the European over Internet privacy by accepting both points
> of view.
> 
> The United States contended industry should be left to manage the
> problem by itself, but the European Union had demanded a government
> regulatory approach.

This 'sounds' like the US is opposed to having any crypto regulations!??

M. K. Shen




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: trends@lcrt.com
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 17:00:18 +0800
To: 
Subject: 5,000 URL Search Engine Submissions - $99 !!! *AD*
Message-ID: <199810120829.BAA27132@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 16:27:15 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199810120806.KAA24593@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Monday, October 12, 1998 - 10:00:42 MET <--Suspicious Central European Time Zone

>>  >> From another one of the several lists I'm on, I figured someone
>>  > might know who the new pseudo-proud owner of a fully-operational
>>  > SS-1C Scud missle *WITH* moblie launcher is...
...
>Besides, my interest is not in that obsolete SCUD, but in the 8
>shoulder-fired missiles brought in at Cosco's port the week before.

Hey, there's a SALE on MISSILES at COSTCO!!!


~~~~~
No, not _that_ China Overseas Shipping Company....
the one that merged with Price Club!

        




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Burnes 
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 02:39:39 +0800
To: Martinus Luther 
Subject: Re: Two Jims, Werner and Matt redefine socialism for their own ends
In-Reply-To: <19981012150355.2145.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Mon, 12 Oct 1998, Martinus Luther wrote:

> I never replied to any of the threads about about monopolies and freedom 
> and government intervention because it was all so off-topic. But 
> *really*. Saying Rosa Luxemburg wasn't a communist is like, totally off 
> the wall: 
> 
> 
> But when Jim Burnes  - much more naive poltically - said it was 

Ahh!  It begins -- typical socialist argumentation.  When you run out of
rational ideas, begin ad hominem attacks (I think I counted at least
five).  I don't have time to rebut this now.  I must report my hours
that I slaved away under last week (damn corporation -- controlling my
life -- i'm being opressed).

I'll take it up later this afternoon. 


jim





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: distributor@angelfire.com
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 03:01:14 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Seeking Commission Based Sales Representatives and Distributors
Message-ID: <199810121841.LAA03234@cyberpass.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Xena - Warrior Princess 
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 04:54:37 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: DNA
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





Another example of science fiction that probably should have been kept as
fiction.


FBI to inaugurate national DNA database

NEW YORK (Reuters) - The FBI will open a new and improved
national DNA database Tuesday that will be used to help
stop serial rapists and other repeat criminals, the New
York Times reported Monday. 

(Full story)
http://www.sjmercury.com/breaking/docs/084314.htm




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 05:54:21 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: RE: Two Jims, Werner and Matt redefine socialism for their own ends
Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A193A7A47@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




> The two largest employers round where I live are a 
> multinational bank and local government. I can vote 
> for my councillors. Some of them I my  neighbours.

So why can't your neighbors run a bank?

> something like Belloc and Chesterton's "distributivism".

Distribute what and created by whom? Need I point out the obvious
fallacy that wealth is a static sum. It is not, wealth must be *created*
before it exists to plunder and share. Abstract wealth and divorce it
from the creator and you eliminate the motive to create. You can only
live from plundered wealth so long before you slip into oblivion (see
the Soviet Union).

> How many of you have a mortgate or pay rent? Capitalism 
> means that someone else owns your house.

No, capitalism allows you to leverage your future productive capacity to
acquire capital assets you wouldn't otherwise have. That is your choice,
and your benefit.

> How many of you work for a corporation? Capitalism means 
> that someone else owns your job.

No, capitalism allows you to trade your labor instead of your product.
That is your choice, and your benefit.

> And then Matt Gering replied to Ken Brown:
> 
> >> A monopolisitic supplier of some good has a measure 
> >> of political power.
> 
> > Political power comes at the mean end of a gun, what 
> > political power do monopolies have and how?

> And I was almost knocked over by the innocence, ignorance and 
> naievety of such a statement.

The question was not rhetorical. Do you care to answer?

> What political power do monopolies have? The power 
> to deny you things you need to live.

How? By denying the ability of others to supply them. By denying your
right to create them. By (legitimately) denying your ability to steal
them. 

> The power to deny you the means to earn a living.

How? By denying your ability to create and dispose of your own wealth.
By denying you the right to freely trade your labor or the right of
others to purchase that labor. By denying your ability to accumulate
capital.

> If there is only one employer in a town then anyone born 
> there must either leave or knuckle under.

Staying is a restraint that is self-imposed (provided government does
not restrict freedom of movement). Why is there only one employer?

> Unlike what Matt Gering said monopoly power *does* "come 
> out of the barrel of a gun" 

On the contrary I clearly stated it did. But if the monopoly does not
have guns itself, whose guns are they?

> - it is preserved by  military and police authority.

Exactly. So eliminate those guns.

> Like money itself it exists because folk choose to believe 
> that it exists. If we all stopped behaving as if great 
> property existed, it would cease to exist.

"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't 
 go away." -- Philip K. Dick

Fine, stop believing in money, no one is forcing you to. Did it work?
Oh, you mean *everyone* has to stop believing in it? Sounds like mass
delusion to me, and metaphysical subjectivism. The fact that something
exists or not is clearly independent of whether anyone believes in it or
not.

Money is a symbol. The valuation of any given monetary system is
entirely irrelevant to the existence of that which money represents, and
the failure of Fiat currencies does not abolish the existence of what
they had represented.

What is the root of money?
http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/money.html

> That respect for money is buttressed by the state.

Manipulation of the money supply by the state is tool for theft by the
state and denial of economic reality. It had consequences in 1929, and
it will again.

	Matt




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 06:52:50 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Tracking: Machines to Check Airline Bags Mostly Idle, Report Says
Message-ID: <199810122228.PAA05971@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Tracking: Machines to Check Airline Bags Mostly Idle, Report Says
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 08:03:44 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  New York Times
http://www.nytimes.com/yr/mo/day/news/washpol/unused-bomb-detectors.html

October 11, 1998

Machines to Check Airline Bags Mostly Idle, Report Says

By MATTHEW L. WALD

WASHINGTON -- The Federal Aviation Administration has spent
more than $122 million on machines to detect bombs in checked
baggage, but those machines that have been installed sit idle for most of
the day, according to investigators from the Department of
Transportation. 

The machines, which cost $1.3 million each to buy and install, are
supposed to be capable of handling 225 bags an hour, but of 13 that
were audited by investigators, nine handled fewer than 200 bags a day,
according to a report released on Friday. 

Some got so little use that the operators could not maintain proficiency in
running them, investigators said. 

"At some airports, they're sitting relatively unused," Lawrence Weintrob,
an assistant inspector general of the Transportation Department, said in a
telephone interview. "Some airports that are using them are using them
rarely, or process relatively few bags through them." 

But Cathal Flynn, assistant administrator of the FAA for civil aviation
security, said the average number of bags processed through each
machine was rising sharply as airlines gained experience. Flynn and airline
representatives said that part of the problem was that the computerized
system for choosing which passengers' bags get scanned was still
developing, and would not be fully implemented until the end of the year. 

"We haven't ironed out all the kinks in the process," said Susan Rork,
managing director of security at the Air Transport Association, the trade
group of the major airlines. 

The computerized system singles out individuals about whom there is too
little information to conclude that they are not a threat, officials say. It
also draws a sample from the group judged not to be a threat, to increase
the chance that a terrorist would be caught, and to make the system
fairer, Flynn said. 

One problem, he said, is that if the system were changed to require that a
larger number of passengers have their bags scrutinized, then at peak
periods people would be delayed so long they would miss their flights. 

"If you get people fuming at a line, that's not good either," Flynn said.
That, he said, would probably discourage machine operators from doing
their jobs right. And delays, he said, would damage public acceptance of
security measures. 

In written comments responding to the report, the FAA said that the
agency would "pursue a more coherent strategy with air carriers to
ramp-up to a higher level of use." However, the agency said, it would be
"many years" before technology allowed screening of all bags. 

Auditors also said that the machines in use could handle only about half
as many bags as they did in lab tests, partly because they sound false
alarms far more when in use at airports. Each false alarm requires time to
resolve. (All alarms so far have been false, officials said, because no
bombs have been detected.) 

The machines' higher false alarm rate is "probably a reason why they
don't use it as often as they should," Weintrob said. 

Fifty-nine of the machines have been installed so far; plans are to have 74
in place by the end of the year, he said. 

Officials of airports where the machines are installed declined to
comment and asked not to be identified. Under FAA rules, airport
operators are responsible for various aspects of security, but not for
screening bags. That responsibility falls to the airlines. 

 Copyright 1998 The New York Times Company
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 06:53:49 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.30: U.S. lawmakers approve major wiretap law change
Message-ID: <199810122228.PAA05982@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: "ama-gi ISPI" 
Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.30: U.S. lawmakers approve major wiretap law change
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 00:08:52 -0700
To: 

ISPI Clips 5.30: U.S. lawmakers approve major wiretap law change
News & Info from the Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI)
Monday October 12, 1998
ISPI4Privacy@ama-gi.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This From: Reuters News Service, (via Yahoo) October 8, 1998
http://biz.yahoo.com/

U.S. lawmakers approve major wiretap law change
(adds Senate approval, FBI comment)
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/981008/b16.html

By
Aaron Pressman

WASHINGTON, Oct 8 (Reuters) - Without debate or notice, U.S. lawmakers on
Thursday approved a proposal long sought by the FBI that would dramatically
expand wiretapping authority -- an idea Congress openly rejected three
years ago.

The provision, allowing law enforcement agencies more easily to tap any
telephone used by or near a target individual instead of getting
authorization to tap specific phones, was added to the Intelligence
Authorization Conference report during a closed door meeting and filed with
the House and Senate on Monday.

The conference report was easily adopted by the House on Wednesday, despite
an objection to the wiretapping provision from Georgia Republican Bob Barr,
and by the Senate on Thursday.

Neither the House nor the Senate had included the provision, known as
roving wiretap authority, in their versions of the intelligence bill. But
lawmakers drafting the conference report, essentially a reconciliation of
the two versions, decided to include it.

Civil liberties groups were outraged by the expanded wiretapping authority
and the process of adding the provision in secret.

``Roving wiretaps are a major expansion of current government surveillance
power,'' said Alan Davidson, staff counsel at the Center for Democracy and
Technology in Washington.

``To take a controversial provision that affects the fundamental
constitutional liberties of the people and pass it behind closed doors
shows a shocking disregard for our democratic process.''

FBI officials said they needed to be able to get roving wiretap authority
more easily to catch criminals taking advantage of new telecommunications
technologies.

``This provision is just a refinement of the existing wiretap statute,''
said Barry Smith, supervisory special agent in the FBI's congressional
affairs office. ``It's just a matter of ensuring we have the means to
effectively pursue these violent criminals and terrorists.''

Under current rules, law enforcement agencies seeking roving wiretap
authority from a judge must prove that an individual is switching
telephones specifically for the purpose of evading a surveillance. The
standard has been difficult to meet and kept the number of roving wiretaps
approved to a minimum, a telephone industry official said.

Without roving authority, police must get permission from a judge for each
telephone line to be tapped.

Under the change approved this week, the police would need show only that
an individual's ``actions could have the effect of thwarting interception
from a specific facility.''

The change removed the need to consider the target's motive in using
different telephones.

Copyright (c) 1998 Reuters Limited.

--------------------------------NOTICE:------------------------------
ISPI Clips are news & opinion articles on privacy issues from
all points of view; they are clipped from local, national and international
newspapers, journals and magazines, etc. Inclusion as an ISPI Clip
does not necessarily reflect an endorsement of the content or opinion
by ISPI. In compliance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed free without profit or payment for non-profit research
and educational purposes only.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

ISPI Clips is a FREE e-mail service from the "Institute for the Study
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(up to 3 - 8 clips per day) send the following message  "Please
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The Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) is a small
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(Canada). ISPI operates on a not-for-profit basis, accepts no
government funding and takes a global perspective.

ISPI's mandate is to conduct & promote interdisciplinary research
into electronic, personal and  financial privacy with a view toward
helping ordinary people understand the degree of privacy they have
with respect to government, industry and each other and to likewise
inform them about techniques to enhance their privacy.

But, none of this can be accomplished without your kind and
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you please help us continue this important work by becoming an "ISPI
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We gratefully accept all contributions:

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 06:54:40 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Secret Marine training mission startles residents
Message-ID: <199810122228.PAA05993@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Secret Marine training mission startles residents
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 11:12:42 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  Greensboro News & Record (N.Carolina)
http://www.greensboro.com/nronline/news/helicopters9.htm

Secret Marine training mission startles residents

10-9-98

By ANDREA BALL, Staff Writer

Fisher Park resident Helen Ullrich was resting in bed when she heard the
roar of the helicopters. The house shook. The windows rattled.

Her first thought: A plane is going to crash.

Her second: Where's it going to land?

"For the first minute or two, that's what it was like," she said. "Just fear."

Greensboro residents shuddered and gawked at the skies Wednesday night
while nine military helicopters
unexpectedly swarmed above their houses. The aircraft were involved in a
two-hour training mission by the 24th Marine Expeditionary Unit at Marine
Corps Base Camp Lejeune, said Capt. Bill Darrenkamp, public affairs officer
for Camp Lejeune.

The helicopters -- a Huey, two Cobras, two Super Stallions and four Sea
Knights -- flew from Onslow Bay to practice long-range raids, Darrenkamp
said. The local training session stretched from about 9:30 to 11:30 p.m.

The Greensboro Police Department agreed to the mission about a month ago,
Darrenkamp said. Nearly 200 families in the Huffine Mill Road area were
told of the training a few hours before it began.

The rest of the city was clueless. And that's the way the Marines wanted
it, said Capt. Sammy Bell of the Greensboro Police Department.

"We couldn't have notified the public on it because if we had, everyone and
their brother would be out there trying
to watch it," Bell said. 

Darrenkamp said the mission was kept quiet because Marines wanted the
training to be as realistic as possible. They also wanted to keep crowds
away from the planes when they landed because they can kick up dirt and
debris, he said. 

The nine helicopters flew from outside Jacksonville to Piedmont Triad
International Airport to refuel. Then they
landed at the old Mt. Zion School on Huffine Mill Road, where 50 to 60
Marines enacted an invasion of enemy
headquarters. They set off smoke grenades, shot blanks with their M-16s and
blew off a door specially installed for the military activity.

But the covert training alarmed people throughout the city. Although the
helicopters were often 400 feet from the
ground, Darrenkamp said they dipped much lower while landing. Some
residents complained that the helicopters barely missed their houses.

"That (height) was cleared, according to the military, by the FAA," said
Capt. David Wray of the Greensboro Police
Department. "We were assured that every safety measure would be taken."

Residents in neighborhoods throughout the city -- including downtown,
Lindley Park, Old Starmount, Forest Oaks and Lake Daniel -- heard or saw
the deafening craft. And then the guessing began.

Was it a crashing plane? An air search for an escaped convict? One of those
medical helicopters?

Brien Deutermanand her husband Bill were watching television in their Old
Starmount home when they heard the helicopters. The couple, seated on their
couch, whipped around to peer out their picture window.

A plane was in trouble, they guessed. They thought of the recent accident
in which a small plane crashed into a home in Winston-Salem.

"It really startled us," Brien Deuterman said. "After what happened in
Winston-Salem a few months ago, that was the first thing that ran through
our minds."

Helen Ullrich rushed outside her home on Isabel Street to find her
pajama-clad neighbors standing in the street,
squinting into the sky at the passing helicopters. Scared children clung to
their parents, while adults slowly
relaxed. Then came the jokes.

The government is scaring us out of our houses to get an accurate census.

If we're in danger, why are we all standing in the middle of the road?

"Once we realized we were out of danger, we were just laughing about it,"
Ullrich said.

Copyright (c) Greensboro News & Record, Inc.
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "X" 
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 06:20:10 +0800
To: 
Subject: RE: DNA
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <000001bdf62a$1a05f7e0$8a2580d0@xasper8d>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



A DNA Database can actually be used for many nifty things that will improve
the lives of taxpayers and consumers alike.  For example, if we only had the
resources to sample DNA from every American, then cross reference that DNA
with, say, their CREDIT REPORT, then we'd know what type of genetic make-up
has a predisposition toward not paying their bills and we'd save so many
untold billions of dollars by not lending those genetic deadbeats any more
money.  Interest rates would plummet!  Plus, if you had the _right_ DNA,
they could just approve you on the spot!

If we had a DNA sample of all world citizens, then the pesky problem of the
whole "it was either O.J. that was the killer or there's a one in five
billion chance it was someone else" would simply disappear.

And, just think of the social improvements:  why, if you forget to ask the
name of last nights suitor, you can scrape some DNA samples off the end of
your cat-o-nine-tails, slip it into your M.S. DNA Reader(tm) and instantly
add them to your outlook addressbook.  (That is, if they have good credit,
natch.)

Man, my verbosity gene is in overdrive today!

X


~> -----Original Message-----
~> From: owner-cypherpunks@minder.net
~> [mailto:owner-cypherpunks@minder.net]On Behalf Of Xena - Warrior
~> Princess
~> Sent: Monday, October 12, 1998 2:20 PM
~> To: cypherpunks@toad.com
~> Subject: DNA
~>
~>
~>
~>
~> Another example of science fiction that probably should have been kept as
~> fiction.
~>
~>
~> FBI to inaugurate national DNA database
~>
~> NEW YORK (Reuters) - The FBI will open a new and improved
~> national DNA database Tuesday that will be used to help
~> stop serial rapists and other repeat criminals, the New
~> York Times reported Monday.
~>
~> (Full story)
~> http://www.sjmercury.com/breaking/docs/084314.htm
~>
~>




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 04:59:04 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: RE: Hidden WebTV signatures
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


From: Pablo Calamera 
To: "'Robert Hettinga'" ,
        "'mac-crypto@vmeng.com'"
	 
Subject: RE: Hidden WebTV signatures
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 11:46:37 -0700

Yes.  Well, the crypto part anyways ;-)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mac-crypto@vmeng.com [mailto:mac-crypto@vmeng.com]On Behalf Of
> Robert Hettinga
> Sent: Sunday, October 11, 1998 8:08 AM
> To: mac-crypto@vmeng.com
> Subject: Hidden WebTV signatures
>
>
> Pablo?
>
> Did *you* do this???
>
> :-)
>
> Cheers,
> Bob Hettinga
>
> --- begin forwarded text
>
>
> From: pgut001@cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann)
> To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
> Subject: Hidden WebTV signatures
> X-Authenticated: relaymail v0.9 on cs26.cs.auckland.ac.nz
> Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 03:29:04 (NZDT)
> Sender: owner-cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
> Precedence: first-class
> Reply-To: pgut001@cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann)
> X-Loop: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
>
> For those of you who don't read sci.crypt, Robert Ames
>  has
> posted an article in which he observes that all WebTV posts contain an
> X-WebTV-Signature: line containing base64-encoded data.  For
> samples of
> WebTV-generated posts, try the alt.weemba newsgroup, which is
> filled with
> WebTV-user drool (caution: remember to employ protection when
> exposting your
> mind to the content of the messages).  Some samples:
>
> X-WebTV-Signature: 1
>
> ETAsAhQDqtur/jfleJ2CDOnNrVoeyALEQAIUOQyCBbzjx5HHfxeMERDgCjztXOU=
> X-WebTV-Signature: 1
>
> ETAtAhUAmCCzQt+Tqt6fNX+L9+gDCECaqQkCFA0YCPz5tk85mUgq7iX/u4vWvOgG
>
> These decode into ASN.1-encoded DSA signatures, eg:
>
>    1 30   45: SEQUENCE {
>    3 02   21:   INTEGER
>             :     00 98 20 B3 42 DF 93 AA DE 9F 35 7F 8B F7 E8 03
>             :     08 40 9A A9 09
>   26 02   20:   INTEGER
>             :     0D 18 08 FC F9 B6 4F 39 99 48 2A EE 25 FF BB 8B
>             :     D6 BC E8 06
>             :   }
>
> for the second one.  The key isn't included in the header,
> presumably the
> @webtv.net address can be tied to the hardware which contains
> some hardcoded
> DSA key.  I wonder if WebTV users know they're signing each
> message they send?
>
> Peter.
>
>
> --- end forwarded text
>
>
> -----------------
> Robert A. Hettinga 
> Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
> 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
> "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
> [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
> experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
>
>

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adobe Systems 
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 08:13:36 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Your New Adobe Customer Number
Message-ID: <199810122339.QAA19114@mail-sea.sea.Adobe.COM>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Thank you for registering with Adobe Systems, Inc. 

Your new Online Customer ID is: 9062604113320310

The PIN you entered and confirmed has been encrypted and stored with your
registration information.

Please remember your Customer ID and PIN for the next time you login as an
Adobe Customer on www.adobe.com.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Ernest Hua" 
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 08:50:08 +0800
To: 
Subject: Re: FBI to inaugurate national DNA database
Message-ID: <018a01bdf63e$30a3fa60$4164a8c0@mve21>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I think it would be a very bad idea for civil liberties groups
to come out 100% against this.  So far all they have said
is that they intend to log all convicted criminals.  If the C.L.
groups complain about that, then it would be too easy for
the FBI to turn around and say, "Geez! These guys complain
about anything and everything we do!"

It would serve the civil liberties causes (and in particular, the
crypto cause) much better to view this with suspicion and
caution and strongly point out that, while this, on its face,
looks okay, the FBI have had a perfect record of always
pushing for more surveillence and more record tracking than
they previously promise to hold to.

Secondly, it is much more important to focus law makers on
the FBI's "constantly pushing for everything they can get
away with while talking BALANCE" behavior than to nickle
and dime every law favoring the FBI.  They must be shown
for their blatant lies rather than for their gray area behavior.

Otherwise, it's a very very tough battle.

Ern

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Gillogly 
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net 
Date: Monday, October 12, 1998 9:31 AM
Subject: FBI to inaugurate national DNA database


>
>SJMC retails a report from today's NYT:
>
>http://www.sjmercury.com/breaking/docs/084314.htm
>
>Executive summary:
>
>- Computer at secret location
>- Access limited to LE
>- All sex offenders get to contribute; felons in some States;
>  other contributors not yet determined. 
>
>-- 
> Jim Gillogly
> Highday, 21 Winterfilth S.R. 1998, 16:12
> 12.19.5.10.14, 5 Ix 7 Yax, Seventh Lord of Night
>




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: randrent 
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 09:11:34 +0800
To: 
Subject: #1 HOME BASED BUSINESS TWO YEARS RUNNING!!!
Message-ID: <419.436080.86392454randrent@prodigy.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



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After you listen to these testimonials, please call Top Secrets Hotline at:

1-800-811-2141 use Code#57978 to get answers to any further questions.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 07:15:48 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: Two Jims, Werner and Matt redefine socialism for their own en (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810122259.RAA03743@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: Matthew James Gering 
> Subject: RE: Two Jims, Werner and Matt redefine socialism for their own en
> 	ds
> Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 14:24:16 -0700

> > multinational bank and local government. I can vote 
> > for my councillors. Some of them I my  neighbours.
> 
> So why can't your neighbors run a bank?

The same reason most people can't. Funny thing is, it's the same reason a
lot of bankers can't run banks.

> Distribute what and created by whom? Need I point out the obvious
> fallacy that wealth is a static sum.

Interesting. I don't see that particular axiom in my notes....what I see is
the assumption that markets and their growth are unlimited. Pesky things
like ecological impacts, social impacts, waste processing, etc. are no big
percentage (as in completely ignored).

> Abstract wealth and divorce it
> from the creator and you eliminate the motive to create.

An interesting but obtuse means of stating that economics are a result of
human action and not a fundamental force in nature.

> > And then Matt Gering replied to Ken Brown:
> > 
> > >> A monopolisitic supplier of some good has a measure 
> > >> of political power.
> > 
> > > Political power comes at the mean end of a gun, what 
> > > political power do monopolies have and how?
> 
> > And I was almost knocked over by the innocence, ignorance and 
> > naievety of such a statement.
> 
> The question was not rhetorical. Do you care to answer?

Political power is actualy a much broader sword than Marx (and yourself
apparently) would paint. It's invovled in such basic actions as saying thank
you and holding a door open for somebody. The political aspect is a
fundamental belief that what goes around comes around. If I, and enough
other people walk around opening doors for each other, do this then when I
can't open the door somebody likely will. It's a gamble in the basic nature
of humans, to do the same basic things within the same social environment
the same basic way. Things like economies of scale have fundamental bases in
these sorts of psychological insights. Those comparable behaviours very
seldom involve violence as a motive, let alone a method. People, all people,
behave badly when violence is involved.

Usualy violence is involved in creating a behaviour of compliance that runs
contrary to some fundamental behaviour of the individual(s) or on the overt
attempt to steal or kill (murder is incorrect because it implies a social
structure that doesn't actualy exist at this fundamental level).

> > What political power do monopolies have? The power 
> > to deny you things you need to live.
> 
> How? By denying the ability of others to supply them. By denying your
> right to create them. By (legitimately) denying your ability to steal
> them. 

Monopolies have the power to decide *YOUR* tomorrow. It isn't theirs at the
cost of a simple profit.
 
> > - it is preserved by  military and police authority.

And social institutions.

> Exactly. So eliminate those guns.

Beeeep. We're so SORRY (not)!!!! That's absolutely the WRONG answer EVER.

> "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't 
>  go away." -- Philip K. Dick
> 
> Fine, stop believing in money, no one is forcing you to. Did it work?
> Oh, you mean *everyone* has to stop believing in it? Sounds like mass
> delusion to me,

That is EXACTLY what I've been trying to say all along! Economics is a
social institution that has fundamental roots in the base behaviours of the
animals involved.

> What is the root of money?
> http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/money.html

Hunger.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Paul H. Merrill" 
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 06:43:59 +0800
To: CypherPunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: What Really Happened
Message-ID: <3622A97B.3D09272C@acm.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



What Really Happened

Some time ago Mr. Clinton was hosting a state dinner when at the
last minute his regular cook took ill and they had to get a
replacement at short notice. The fellow arrived and turned out to
be a very grubby looking man named Jon. The President voiced
his concerns to his chief of staff but was told that this was the
best they could do at such short notice.

Just before the meal, the President noticed the cook sticking his
fingers in the soup to taste it and again he complained to the chief
of staff about the cook, but he was told that this man was
supposed to be a very good chef. The meal went okay but the
President was sure that the soup tasted a little off, and by the time
dessert came, he was starting to have stomach cramps and nausea.

It was getting worse and worse till finally he had to excuse himself
from the state dinner to look for the bathroom. Passing through the
kitchen, he caught sight of the cook, Jon, scratching his rear end
and this made him feel even worse. By now he was desperately ill
with violent cramps and was so disorientated that he couldn't
remember which door led to the bathroom. 

He was on the verge of passing out from the pain when he finally
found a door that opened and as he undid his trousers and ran in,
he realised to his horror that he had stumbled into Monica
Lewinsky's office with his trousers around his knees.

As he was just about to pass out, she bent over him and heard her
president whisper in a barely audible voice, "sack my cook".

And that is how the whole misunderstanding occurred.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 07:03:36 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: RE: DNA
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 5:48 PM -0400 on 10/12/98, X wrote:
> Man, my verbosity gene is in overdrive today!

Nope. You've just been reading too many, um, crypto-statist, Gore Vidal novels.

:-).

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Robert A. Costner" 
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 07:14:13 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: IP: Tracking: Machines to Check Airline Bags Mostly Idle, Report Says
In-Reply-To: <199810122228.PAA05971@netcom13.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981012185102.0347e50c@rboc.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 03:28 PM 10/12/98 -0700, Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote:
>
>From: believer@telepath.com
>Subject: IP: Tracking: Machines to Check Airline Bags Mostly Idle, Report
Says
>Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 08:03:44 -0500
>To: believer@telepath.com
>
>Auditors also said that the machines in use could handle only about half
>as many bags as they did in lab tests, partly because they sound false
>alarms far more when in use at airports. Each false alarm requires time to
>resolve. (All alarms so far have been false, officials said, because no
>bombs have been detected.) 

Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but including the TWA flight that
precipitated this mess, isn't it true that for the last 20 years or so no
bombs have been known to get onto planes in the US even without the bomb
detectors?


  -- Robert Costner                  Phone: (770) 512-8746
     Electronic Frontiers Georgia    mailto:pooh@efga.org  
     http://www.efga.org/            run PGP 5.0 for my public key




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 09:09:02 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: FYI: More on WebTV security
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


From: Pablo Calamera 
To: "'mac-crypto@vmeng.com'" 
Subject: FYI: More on WebTV security
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 16:34:14 -0700
Sender: 
Precedence: Bulk

Don't know if you've seen this, but we were recently granted a license to
ship 128-bit RC4 in our product.
No key recovery, no key escrow.  Here's the fluff:

	http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/1998/Oct98/EncryptionPR.htm

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 03:22:29 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Gates v 2.0
Message-ID: <199810121902.VAA13050@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Besides the FBI's DNA database, in today's (Oct. 12th, 1998) 
New York Times is a John Markoff commentary "
Memo Offers a Glimpse of Gates 2.0" about a 14 page 
memo written by Bill Gates in Sept., entitled "The Era Ahead".

In this memo, Gates "describes a new system to be called Megaserver
which will provide computer users with access to their personal
information and electronic mail wherever they have an Internet 
connection."

Holy Hotmail Batman! That Bill is right on top of things!

Further along, the article paraphases Bill that that the operating 
system "will play an increasing role in protecting intellectual piracy
against from data piracy by tracking the use of information
and preventing illicit copying."

I can see my future now, logging into Windows 2000 with the handy 
keyboard DNA sampler. However, all of my software is registered to 
my dog. Here boy...




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 04:13:27 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Gates v 2.0
In-Reply-To: <199810121902.VAA13050@replay.com>
Message-ID: <199810121942.VAA17805@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



  > I can see my future now, logging into Windows 2000 with the handy
  > keyboard DNA sampler.

ROTFL!

Can you imagine how disastrous wil be a DNA sampler designed
by the company that can't even produce a usable text editor?




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Secret Squirrel 
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 12:15:18 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re:
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Anonymous wrote:
> 
> > >HOW MUCH CODE DID 'CYPHERPUNK' TIM MAY EVER WRITE?
> >
> > How much code have you ever written?
> 
> A DECENT AMOUNT. THE CRYPTO APPS I CREATED ARE SOMEWHAT UNIQUE,
> SO IF I MENTIONED THEM YOU MIGHT FIGURE OUT WHO I AM.

Did you rewrite your keyboard driver at the same time?




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 10:32:44 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: RE:
Message-ID: <199810130210.EAA25237@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



paranoid, or enlightened? :)

At 03:55 PM 10/10/98 , you wrote:

>~> PS. there is someone on this list who knows who
>~> i am. yes there is someone who knows who anon
>~> posters are. we fucking hate you and am waiting 
>~> for you to take the trap and we will reveal your
>~> identity scumbag. 
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Brown, R Ken" 
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 18:14:25 +0800
To: hua@teralogic-inc.com>
Subject: RE: FBI to inaugurate national DNA database
Message-ID: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F84C5@MSX11002>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> Ernest Hua[SMTP:hua@teralogic-inc.com] wrote: 
> 
> I think it would be a very bad idea for civil liberties 
> groups to come out 100% against this.  So far all they
> have said is that they intend to log all convicted criminals.  
> If the C.L. groups complain about that, then it would be too 
> easy for the FBI to turn around and say, "Geez! These guys
> complain about anything and everything we do!"

I think you are falling for the old bazaar bargaining trick.  The guy
wants to sell you a carpet that is worth a shekel. He reckons he can do
you for ten shekels. So he starts the bidding at a hundred  and you
think you've done well when you've beaten him down to fifteen.  America
is - cypherpunks tell me - a country where people worry about their
social security number being kept on databases,  where caller id on
phones  can be a hot political issue.  This DNA business is far more
intrusive and dangerous than any of that. Don't fall for it!

Don't fall for the argument that it is only the bad guys who get tagged.
They can define anyone they want as a bad guy. How many people do you
know who have never done anything for which they could be convicted as a
criminal? Never driven a car faster then the speed limit, never smoked
dope, never ridden a bicycle on the pavement, never been drunk in a
public place? To a large extent the set of  "convicted criminals" is
governed by police or court decisions rather than by the actions of the
criminals.

Over here in Britain we've had a long succession of intrusive, abusive
laws promulgated in the name of public safety, law and order, peace on
the streets.  The previous government had their absurd "dangerous dogs
act" which became a laughing stock before the ink was dry then their
horrendous and evil  "Criminal Justice Bill"  with racist provisions
allowing the police to persecute travellers and uttely useless laws
against "music with repetitive beats" not to mention new rules to
control "young offenders, bailed  persons, squatters, travellers,
ravers,  protesters, trespassers, arrested persons,  defendants,
hunt-saboteurs, pornographers, video pirates, obscene telephone-callers,
prisoners, racists, terrorists, ticket touts, cannabis-smokers, serious
fraudsters and not  forgetting gay men under 18."

The current lot aren't as bad, and are certainly more well-intentioned
but they haven't repealed any of the earlier stuff and are, bit by bit,
filling in the few gaps in the wall of regulation and legislation the
Tories built around anyone who wasn't a middle-aged white  man who
worked 9 to 5, living in a suburb with a car and a mortgage,  who  never
went out.

Our current Home Secretary (cabinet minister with responsibility for
police anong other things)  was probably the first person in such a
position in any major country who was brought up by a single mother on a
violent estate (what you'd call a housing project in America) and he
thinks he knows - no he *does* know - what most ordinary people in
environments like that want from life. So he proposes law after law to
make things better, to tell people how they ought to live, all with the
best of intentions. Curfews for children (you ask questions and he will
just come back at you and say "do you *really* think 9-year-old children
should be wandering around on their own at night, or in gangs?" to which
the honest answer is "no, but it's none of your business if they do").
Compulsory parenting education  for parents whose children commit
crimes. A national register of paedophiles - which is made public,  so a
couple of convicted child abusers, on being released from jail asked to
be taken back in again because their life wasn't safe outside.  Defining
email that goes outside the country as "export" so that writing about
bombs (or cryptography?) can come under the strategic arms export
regulations. And so on.

And all the while local councils put up cameras in every high street... 

And all the 


[...snip...]

> Secondly, it is much more important to focus law makers 
> on the FBI's "constantly pushing for everything they can
> get away with while talking BALANCE" behavior than to nickle
> and dime every law favoring the FBI.  They must be shown
> for their blatant lies rather than for their gray area behavior.
> Otherwise, it's a very very tough battle.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 19:41:16 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: TCR9 -- A Soldier of the Great War
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


From: CONSILRPT@aol.com
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 04:44:22 EDT
To: "The Consilience Report" 
Mime-Version: 1.0
Subject: TCR9 -- A Soldier of the Great War
List-Subscribe: 
List-Owner: 
Reply-To: CONSILRPT@aol.com
X-Message-Id: 
Sender: bounce-consilience-report-262839@lists.lyris.net
Precedence: bulk

____________________________________________________________


THE CONSILIENCE REPORT:

                                         A Bionomic Meditation
                                         Number Nine
                                         10/13/98

_____________________________________________________________

                                        A SOLDIER OF THE GREAT WAR



Last Waltz in Vienna
================

In the summer of 1918 the Great War was
grinding through its fourth year. Thirty millions
already dead or wounded -- or more --  no one
really knows -- and the wreck of Europe still
staggered on, like a blind man into oncoming
traffic.

In Italy the Austrian army was making its
last futile bid for a military victory with
an attack across the Piave River.  In ten
days they would lose 100,000 men -- twice
all the American deaths in Vietnam, but
barely a footnote in the endless slaughter
of WW1.

If you had been on the Italian front that June --
if you had been, say, young Ernest Hemingway
from Michigan, tending your ambulance -- and
had looked up at just the right time and place,
you might have seen one of the biplanes of that
era: an observation craft buzzing westward
from the Austrian lines.

The skinny boy-officer in the rear cockpit was a
spotter for an artillery regiment of the Austro-
Hungarian army.  He had dropped out of high
school in his senior year to enlist and experience
a small part of the catastrophe.

He was Lieutenant Friedrich August von Hayek,
eldest son of a distinguished family of the minor
Austrian nobility.  He was just nineteen years old
and, like all the young men so engaged that year,
had no good prospect of getting much older.

Hayek had been born in Vienna in 1899, in the
reign of "der Alte Kaiser," the Emperor Franz-
Joseph, next-to-last of the durable Habsburg
dynasty.

Unlike many of his age and class, Lt. von Hayek
survived his war.  He contracted malaria in the
long retreat in the fall of 1918 but made it back
-- thin and sick, but alive -- to a city that was no
longer the glittering capital of a polyglot empire.

Vienna was now just the largest city in the tiny
rump state of the Austrian Republic -- redundant,
impoverished, and on the edge of starvation. But
it still possessed enough intellectual and cultural
capital for one last burst of achievement before
the Nazis rolled in fifteen years later. Here, Hayek
considered his prospects in a changed world and
prepared to enter the University of Vienna.


A Shift of Attention
===============

His first love had been the natural sciences. His
grandfather had been a prominent ornithologist
and Hayek, like his father, had been a fervent
amateur botanist.  One of his brothers became
an anatomist, the other a chemist.

By the time he was sixteen he had progressed
from a collector's interest in taxonomy to
paleontology and evolutionary theory -- but the
war changed things. The experience of serving
in a multinational army, shifted his interest from
the natural to the social sciences.

As he drily remarked:

   I served in a battle in which eleven different
   languages were spoken. It's bound to draw
   your attention to the problems of social
   organiization.

As unbearable as 1914-1918 had been, events
were already in motion to ensure that the rest
of the horrible twentieth century arrived on
schedule.

Austria's senior ally --  the other Kaiser -- had
just put the Russian emigre Vladimir Ulyanov
(nom de guerre: Lenin) into a sealed train bound
for St Petersburg,  like a plague bacillus into the
artery of a sick man.  And within a year another
Austrian veteran, Adolph Hitler, would make his
way to Vienna, tramping through a rougher
neighborhood than Hayek's, completing his own
education among the crackpots and anti-semites
that had long been flourishing like weeds in the
brilliant but decadent capital.

Europe, broken and bleeding, waited patiently
while the scenery was shifted and the principal
players learned their lines for the next act. Hayek
had little to do with that -- few would be ready to
listen to him or his ideas until the National Socialists
and Communists had shot their bolt, and not many
even then.


Some Piety
=========

We would like to think that everyone knows
of, and esteems Hayek but, for the benefit of
students arriving late here is a brief recitation:

F. A. Hayek (1899-1992) was one of the foremost
economists of this century before he morphed into
a later and even more important career as a social
and political philosopher.  He won the Nobel prize
in economics in 1974 and America's presidential
Medal of Freedom in 1991.

Those are some of the bare facts as they are
cited in reference books, but there is much more
to be said: He was a mighty scholar, an original
thinker, a gentleman in a nearly-forgotten sense
of that word.

Above all, he was a man of unflinching moral
courage who did as much as anyone to keep the
idea of individual freedom alive.  In an age when
many of our leaders have tried to tell us that
liberty is an embarrassing relic of another age --
something that we should happily trade in for
something shinier -- our nation, or our race, or
equality, or security, or social justice, or some
other fabulous chimera -- Hayek quietly,
persistently said: No, we won't.

For that, and for other things, we owe him.

Hayek had a long and useful life, doing important
work on into his 70s and 80s, but he won't quite
have made it into his centenary year of 1999. We
expect that hosannahs will be going up from all of
the various libertarian enclaves as his 100th birth-
day approaches, but TCR would like to be among
the first to pay our respects.

We expect we will need two or three more essays
to talk about his life and work, connect it to our
present concerns, and to try to make it clear that
he is somewhat more than just another dead
economist.

There's something to be said for the old Greek
ideal of piety -- civic reverence toward what
has gone before -- and if anyone in our century
deserves a bit of that,  it is certainly he.


London
======

Between the wars, even before the Nazis would
have made his departure obligatory, Hayek left
Vienna and alighted in London, a place he found
very much to his liking.

In 1895, Sidney and Beatrice Webb, doyen and
doyenne of English socialism, had founded the
London School of Economics and Political Science,
intending for it to be the West Point of their sect.
But things had loosened up a bit, and Lionel
Robbins, the moderate scholar who headed the
economics department, decided that a young
visiting lecturer from Vienna was a comer.

Robbins discovered that Hayek, notwithstanding
his anti-socialist views, seemed to  know more
about the history of the English monetary system
than any man in England. His English was passable
and he was a genial, well-bred sort -- "clubbable"
as the English say.  Robbins offered young
Dr Hayek a faculty position.

LSE didn't have quite the cachet of Oxford or
Cambridge but, for a young foreigner whose
own country offered poor prospects, it was a
plum.


The Great Debate
=============

In the small world that concerned itself with
economic theory, Hayek emerged in the early
Thirties as the great rival of John Maynard
Keynes.  In the journals, they conducted a public
debate about monetary and fiscal policy and
what, if anything, economists (and the governments
they advised), could do about the Great Depression
that seemed to be swallowing up the wealth of
the planet.

Keynes, brilliant and charismatic, had dabbled
in several fields, but now believed he had
solved the problem of booms and busts -- what
the economists genteelly referred to as "economic
fluctuations." When Keynes published his  _Treatise
on Money_, Hayek, uncharismatic but persistent,
fired back with a series of penetrating criticisms.
Later Keynes extended his ideas in_The General
Theory of Employment, Credit, and Money_,
and again Hayek returned fire.

Personally, Keynes and Hayek became
good friends, sharing a passion for history
and book collecting.  Publicly, they fought on.

As we all know, Keynes won the debate and
Hayek lost it, or so it seemed at the time, as
governments gravitated to Keynesianism.
Then came the Second War, which seemed
to justify extension of government control over
whatever bits of their economies that central
planners in Washington and London had not
already comandeered to fight the depression.

We can't pause here to consider the substance
of the Keynes-Hayek debate (and aren't compe-
tent to do so), except perhaps to say that it was
rooted in a basic conceptual clash about whether
macroeconomics as proposed by Keynes and
others really made any sense.

Hayek (and the Austrian school from which
he sprang) held that the aggregate measurements
of economic activity -- which Keynes proposed
to track and control through state action --were
statistical illusions that could only mislead policy-
makers about microeconomic reality.

Later, Hayek himself said of the great debate:

   In the middle 1940s... I was known as one of the
   two main disputing economists: there was Keynes
   and there was I . Now Keynes died and became
   a saint; and I discredited myself by publishing
   _The Road to Serfdom ...


A Discreditable Book
================

In the summer of 1939, even after Austria's
annexation by Hitler,  Hayek took train across
Europe for his annual holiday in the Austrian
Alps. He was a vigorous forty and an experienced
mountaineer, confident that even if war befell, he
could walk out of the country across the mountains,
depending on his skills and knowledge to reach
Switzerland.

He did his best thinking in the mountains and
here, perhaps, in Nazified Austria, he mapped
out his own little piece of the next war.  He had
seen, at closer-hand than his English colleagues,
the extinction of liberal Europe, the ascendency
of barbarism, and the steps by which it had
been wrought.  He had already published a little
article called "Freedom and the Economic
System" in a popular magazine. It contained
the germ for an argument he knew many people
wouldn't want to hear.

His loyalty was to England now, but he
began to wonder if his new countrymen really
understood how easily their liberty could slip
through their fingers.

An ex-enemy alien, with a German accent
and a "von" in front of his name was not
considered a suitable candidate for a government
post -- it would have involved PR problems that
Mr Churchill didn't need.  So Robbins and Keynes
became government advisors, while Hayek
taught. His contribution to the war effort was
philosophical and polemical rather than
bureaucratic. And, as it turned out, the war
that preoccupied his thougtsa wasn't precisely
the same one that the English thought they
were fighting.

In his spare time between 1940 and 1943 he
wrote _The Road to Serfdom_, and published
it in Britain in 1944.  It was a book that nearly
ruined his reputation as an economist and set
his life on a new course.


On the Road
=========

When Hayek was awarded the Nobel prize in
1974, the first reaction of many was surprise
that he was still alive. A few recalled that he
had debated Keynes many years ago, then he
had published a polemic that upset everyone
and wrecked his career. Where had he been?

Unlike his friend and rival Keynes, Hayek
didn't think of himself as a wit. When he
dedicated RTS to "The Socialists of All Parties,"
he was not being arch or ironical. They were
precisely the people he was addressing. If it was
a polemic, it was an uncommonly polite one.

In a long and disputatious life Hayek always
carefully attributed only seemly motives
to his opponents -- never suggesting that they
sought anything but the good and the true. In
his own case it may have been so, but he was a
very unusual man. His opponents were often
not so delicate.

What he told them, in fine, was that he believed
in their good intentions:

   There can be no doubt that most socialists
   still believe profoundly in the liberal ideal of
   freedom and that they would recoil if they
   became convinced that the realization of
   their program would mean the destruction
   of freedom.

Then, for two hundred pages, he tried to so
convince them and bring about that recoil.

He argued that the planned economies to which
so many well-meaning people had pinned their
hopes for a better world would inevitably and
tragically lead to a worse one. That all of their
ideas had already been tried in Germany or Russia
or both. That the results were there for anyone
with the eyes to see them. That their good intentions
would not save them.

The book was written by an Austro-Englishman
specifically to warn his new countrymen -- full of
examples and arguments calculated to move
an English mind. It received a respectful hearing
there, where Hayek was something of a minor
public figure. It never occurred to him that it
would become a popular best-seller in the United
States, where he was completely unknown.

When Hayek arrived in the United States in the
spring of 1945, he was planning to lecture to
audiences of economists at a few universities.
Instead, he discovered that RTS had been
published not just by the scholarly University
of  Chicago Press, but had been condensed in
The Readers' Digest, the largest-circulation
magazine of its day, then re-printed in a cheap
edition as a Book-of-the-Month. In the pre-
television, pre-Internet world of 1945 it was a
media blitz.

He was astounded to discover that he was an
instant celebrity.  In New York, instead of
lecturing to a few professors he found himself
addressing an overflow crowd in a 3000-seat
auditorium, and carried live on network radio.


Aftermath
========

It would be pleasant to report that the socialists
of all parties had actually been persuaded, or at
least cowed, by RTS, but of course no such
thing happened. Not then, and not now.

Hayek had his bewildering few weeks of
American celebrity, and here and there RTS
penetrated deeply.  Hayek continued to work
and write, spent time in the United States and
in  liberated Europe, and did what he could to
marshal a revival of what he quaintly still insisted
on calling "liberalism."

His American critics, calling themselves
liberals, insisted that he was a reactionary
conservative and an enemy of progress. A
comedy of errors that persists to this day.

Although Hayek and RTS outlived many
critics -- always the most satisfactory way
to win an argument -- there were plenty of
them.

One of the three American commercial
publishers that rejected the book found
it so politically repulsive that they reportedly
said it was "unfit for publication by a
reputable house."

As he recalled it:

   The English socialists, with few exceptions,
   accepted the book as something written in
   good faith...In America it was wholly
   different... The great enthusiasm about the
   New Deal was still at its height...the American
   intelligentsia...felt that this was a betrayal of
   the highest ideals which intellectuals ought to
   defend. So I was exposed to incredible abuse...
   It went so far as to completely discredit me
   professionally.

When efforts were made to bring Hayek to the
University of Chicago a few years later, the
school's economists rose in angry disdain.
Hayek had to settle for a berth with the
prestigious Committee on Social Thought,
where he was pointedly not expected to
profess economics.

It was only in 1974 when he made his trip
to Stockholm to receive his Nobel gong,
that there was a general revival of interest
in the forgotten man.

And there the tale will have to rest for now.


Postscript and Preview
=================

At the Fourth Bionomics Conference in 1996,
Eric B. Baum of the NEC Research Institute gave
a workshop on genetic algorithms, featuring
a program he called "The Hayek Machine." The
name was not whimsical -- it pointed back to an
obscure book by Hayek called _The Sensory Order_,
a foray by the economist into theoretical psychology --
published in 1952, but based on notions he had
sketched out in the 1920s.

Genetic algorithms are a subset of artificial
intelligence research, but they also have important
implications for economics, psychology, biology,
and other disciplines. Baum's Hayek1 and Hayek2
are "dumb" programs operating with limited infor-
mation about their environment, but which manage
to solve complex problems. It is Adam Smith's
Invisible Hand, as enriched by F. A. Hayek and
formalized by cutting-edge computer science.

We think the value of history is self-evident, but our
interest in Hayek is mainly forward-looking. He tried,
very persuasively, to show us the social world as a
field of self-organizing institutions co-evolving in an
almost Darwinian fashion -- what he called
spontaneous order.

Hayek's work anticipated and partly inspired
research now being carried out in many disciplines.
It implies a world-view that is still inchoate and hard
to encapsule in a word or a phrase.  "Complex
self-organizing systems" catches some of it. But it
could just as well be called simply Hayekian.

It also happens to be a way of looking at things
that is congenial to libertarians.  If the social
world were not, in fact, essentially Hayekian, then
order could never arise spontaneously.  But
our growing understanding of complex systems
in many contexts is confirming the reasonings and
intuitions of Hayek.  Our human world is a place
where order need not be imposed by planners and
despots -- a world where a free society operating
within an impersonal framework of basic rules
is an available option.

As intimated above, we hope to tease out various
Hayekian insights in future TCRs: spontaneous
organization, the role of information in the economy,
and his re-thinking of the problem of constitutional
govenment, among others.

And along the way: an occasional nod of gratitude
to the old soldier himself.

======================================

Resources:

1.  A Soldier of the Great War

Our title was swiped from the excellent novel
of the same name by Mark Helprin. It is a
fictional reminiscence of an old man who, in his
youth, fought with the Italian Army in World
War One. A convenient way to learn something
about that war, which also happens to be a fine
piece of writing.


2.  Hayek had been born in Vienna...

There are several biographical sketches of Hayek
here and there, but no proper biography exists.

For this essay we relied heavily on  _Hayek on
Hayek: An Autobiographical Dialogue Edited
by Stephen Kresge and Leif Wenar_.

It has been cobbled together from several tape-
recorded interviews with Hayek  in the 1970s
and '80s, and gives us Hayek in his own words.

It's a companion to the collected works of
Hayek, being published in 20-odd volumes by
University of Chicago Press with the support
of a dozen classical liberal/libertarian groups
in several countries, including Cato and the
Reason Foundation.

The introduction by Stephen Kresge is the best
short summary of Hayek's life and works that
we know of. The book includes some wonderful
photos, including young FAH in the regalia of
an Austrian officer, and writing al fresco in the
Alps.

All extended Hayek quotes arefrom this work.

Available from Amazon  (1994 HC edition)
for $27.50:

   http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/
      0226320626/002-2884821-8302613


2a.  The Hayek Interviews

One of the tapes included in _Hayek on Hayek_
is a 1977 interview conducted by Prof. Tom
Hazlett.  It was printed in Reason magazine in
1992 following Hayek's death.

Available at:

  http://www.reasonmag.com/hayekint.html

Also, for those who want to see and hear the
man himself, several recordings are available
from the Idea Channel. Selected clips can be
seen/heard for no charge at their website:

   http://www.ideachannel.com/HayekDiscussions.htm


3.  The Hayek-Keynes Debate

No short piece can resolve this tangled and very
theoretical fifty-year-old controversy.

The most lucid and concise account of this
dispute (for non-economists) we know of is an
essay by Fritz Machlup in _Essays on Hayek_
(1976).

Machlup is another eminent Austrian
who taught at Princeton and is a past president
of the American Economics Association. He is
sympathetic to Hayek but fair to Keynes.

The book is, unfortunately, out of print, but
probably not difficult to find.

As to the final fate of Keynes, we can only note
that his reputation is much diminished in
recent years, while Hayek's has risen. At the 1997
convention of the American Economics Association,
there was a session called "Is there a Core of Practical
Macroeconomcs That We Should all Believe?,"
suggesting that there is considerable disarray in the
macro school which was once confident that it was
smart enough to not only understand but "fine-tune"
modern economies.

See also:

Ben W. Bolch, "Is Macroeconomics Believable?"
in The Independent Review, vol 2, No4 (Spring 1998).


4.  _The Road to Serfdom_

The fiftieth anniversary edition was published
by University of Chicago in 1994, and is still
in print.  It includes a new introduction by
Hayek's friend and fellow Nobel laureate
Milton Friedman and Hayek's lengthy preface
to the 1956 edition.

RTS has been roundly praised, here and elsewhere,
as a classic, and it surely is. But it should be noted
that much of the book's argument turns on people,
issues and events of the 30s and 40s which some
readers born after WW II may find a bit murky.

The "classical" central-planning socialism
criticized by Hayek in 1944 has been succeeded
by socialism "lite" -- the pervasive regulate-and-
redistribute regimes with which we cope at
century's-end, and a bit of translation is required
to see that it is the same vinegary wine in a new
bottle. A reader who wants a short, sharp
summing-up adjusted for recent fashions in
statism might prefer _The Fatal Conceit_
(1989), Hayek's parting shot in his ninetieth year.

No single book encompasses all of Hayek's
thought, but those who are not much interested
in technical economics, are pressed for time, and
want to read the best single, systematic statement
of Hayek's philosophy might better take up his
_The Constitution of Liberty_ (1960).

RTS is available for a paltry $8.76 from Amazon
at

   http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/
      0226320618/o/qid=908170736/sr=2-1/
      002-2884821-8302613

CoL  (1978 trade PB edition) is $19.95:

   http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/
      0226320847/qid%3D908170912/
      002-2884821-8302613

TFC (1991 trade PB edition) is $12.00:
   http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/
      0226320669/r/002-2884821-8302613


4.   The "Hayek" genetic algorithm program...

A brief abstract of Dr Baum's presentation is
available at:

   http://www.bionomics.org/text/events/conf96/
      abstracts/abBowlBaum.html


5.  Hayek on the Web

There are a number of good Hayekian resources
on the Net, but the only one you really need is the
excellent Friedrich Hayek Scholars' Page at

   http://members.aol.com/gregransom/
        hayekpage.htm

It's maintained by Professor Greg Ransom of Mira
Costa College, and contains links to every substantial
bit of Hayekiana on the Web.  A cornucopia.

==============================================

TCR is published by Steve Hyde and John LeGere, and written,
more often than not, by John LeGere..

Comments, brickbats, and inquiries can be addressed to
us at CONSILRPT@aol.com

Please feel free to forward this issue to whomever you please,
leaving our boilerplate intact.

If you know discerning people who would like to receive TCR,
send a subscription request to CONSILRPT@aol.com.

===============================================



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-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 19:53:29 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: NSA Declassifications
Message-ID: <199810131106.HAA09415@camel14.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Forward:

A selection of National Security Agency declassification decisions is
offered at

        http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/nsa/index.html

___________________
Steven Aftergood
Project on Government Secrecy
Federation of American Scientists

http://www.fas.org/sgp/





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 20:15:39 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: [FP] Boiling the frog: Much will depend on 'electronic money'
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Delivered-To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
From: "ScanThisNews" 
To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
Subject: IP: [FP] Boiling the frog: Much will depend on 'electronic money'
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 20:27:18 -0500
Sender: owner-ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
Precedence: list
Reply-To: "ScanThisNews" 

======================================================================
SCAN THIS NEWS
10/11/98

[Forwarded message]


    FROM MOUNTAIN MEDIA
    FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE DATED OCT. 4, 1998
    THE LIBERTARIAN, By Vin Suprynowicz
    Boiling the frog: Much will depend on the new 'electronic money'

EDITORS: A version of this feature first appeared in the October edition of
Las Vegas Magazine.

    An Internet press release (how trendy) from the folks at MasterCard
International, datelined "Purchase, N.Y., July 22, 1998," informs us:

  "MasterCard International hosted today an online forum with thought
leaders from global business, government and research organizations to
discuss lifestyle changes that will occur as smart card technology gains
acceptance over the next five years.

  "Representatives from IBM, Hitachi, British Telecommunications plc, the
U.S. federal government's General Services Administration, The Tower Group
and Emerge Online participated in the roundtable, which was moderated by
Richard Phillimore, Senior Vice President of MasterCard's Chip Card
Business unit.

  "'Five years from now, multi-application smart cards will be an
established technology in the payments business,' Phillimore said. 'As the
benefits of multi-application smart cards are proven in the marketplace,
the conversion from magnetic stripe to chip-based payment cards will be
very rapid. By the year 2010, we expect all of MasterCard's credit and
debit cards and terminals will be chip-based.'

  "Smart cards will deliver increased consumer value and utility to today's
credit cards, Phillimore added. 'Chip technology will enable cardholders to
use their cards for many more purposes, such as electronic ticketing,
loyalty programs, and secure remote shopping -- a true Lifestyle Card that
can be tailored to meet the unique needs and  preferences of a single
individual.'"

  When mentioning those ominous-sounding "loyalty programs," I should point
out, the online MasterCard gang are referring not to government loyalty
oaths of the "am not now and never have been a member of the Communist
Party" variety, but rather a system in which cardholders receive discounts
for "loyally" shopping through one company -- the system probably familiar
to most consumers today via those "discount club cards" issued by your
supermarket, offering you 30 cents off a package of toilet paper if you let
the teller scan your card at the checkout stand.

  Of course, the store gets something back in return for that discount. In
addition to the obvious hope that you'll keep going back to the store whose
discount card you carry (essentially, a surcharge is being applied to
"hoppers" who show no store loyalty), the management can now easily track
how many of its outlets you visit, and what you buy there.

  The initial commercial applications may be innocent enough -- "Let's save
postage by only sending coupons for this new brand of breakfast cereal to
the home addresses of our shoppers who already buy the more expensive
competitor." But you don't have to be the kind who walks stooped over to
avoid the black helicopters to foresee the day when the government
inspectors may arrive, asking to see the electronic profiles of all
customers in a given geographic area who have used the fast-spreading cards
to buy anything from home AIDS test kits to hydroponic "grow lights" to
"High Times" magazine to pistol ammunition.

 It's all stored in the computer, you know. And how long do you think Jack,
your friendly local produce manager, is really going to refuse to let the
FBI access his computer without a court order? About as long as it takes
them to ask for his Social Security number and threaten to call their
friends at the IRS, suggesting Jack may be in need of an immediate tax
audit?

  The cheerful little MasterCard press release doesn't take long to broach
the subject of "expanded uses" for the new cards with their embedded memory
chips:

  "The panel also addressed the use of smart cards for identification
purposes. Many agreed that identification was the 'killer application' that
would encourage adoption of smart card programs. Kotaro Yamashita, COO of
Financial Services at Hitachi, Ltd. said, 'We see identification
applications issued by governments as being big in many places outside of
Asia, for example Central America.' However, Marty Wagner, Associate
Administrator of the Office of Government wide Policy at the U.S. General
Services Administration (GSA) cautioned that 'National identity card
programs could run into trouble in the U.S. due to privacy concerns.' "


    #   #   #

 The process of accustoming Americans to carrying around cards which can be
used to buy anything from a candy car to a soda pop to a round-trip airline
ticket to London -- but whose embedded chips will also relay to corporate
and government snoops the social security number and other personal
information (and resultant tax obligations) of anyone making that purchase
-- is well underway.

  There's an old folk warning that if you throw a frog in boiling water he
will quickly jump out. But if you put a frog in a pan of cold water and
raise the temperature ever so slowly, the gradual warming will make the
frog doze happily, triggering the soporific response he instinctively
displays when the sun shines on his lily pad ... In fact, the frog will
eventually cook to death, without ever waking up.

 Likewise, some mighty high-powered public relations types are figuring
ways to emphasize the convenience of "electronic cash" - and downplay the
effect it may have in removing any remaining privacy from the way you spend
your pay.

  The goal? To cook the frog, without any ruckus.

  Convenience, convenience, convenience, was the happy spin Time magazine
put on a new "single electronic card that may replace everything in your
wallet," in their issue of April 27, 1998. As the magazine was listing all
the bothersome stuff you now have to lug around - cash, ATM cards, credit
cards, proof of insurance - it made a not-so-subtle swipe at anyone who
would resist the happy consolidation of such burdens:

 "Your ID cards. PRESENT: You lug various bits of your legal identity.
FUTURE: Non-conspiracists could consolidate pertinent info in one place."

  Get that? If you don't want the government tax man to see your bank
balance and a record of how many times you've flown to Zurich or the Cayman
Islands, if you don't want the theater manager to see your alimony payments
or your concealed-carry handgun permit, if you don't want your boss to see
your prescription for post-cancer-surgery drugs, if you don't want EVERYONE
to gain a precise accounting of how much you spent last month at
Frederick's of Hollywood, or renting X-rated videos, or shacked up in a
motel room across town, or purchasing alcoholic beverages, or buying
vaginal contraceptive foam (including which brand you prefer), why, you're
just some loony "conspiracist."

  Also note that "could" ... as though we'll still have any choice.

  But why worry? Digital cash will be great, argues Joshua Cooper Ramo in
the big "Future of Money" piece in the April 27 Time:

  "Think about the $2,000 check you send to your daughter at college for
expenses. How is that money really spent? Books ... or beer? Electronic
cash takes that relatively simple transaction -- passing an allowance --
and makes it into a much more intelligent process. ...

  "Your daughter can store the money any way she wants -- on her laptop, on
a debit card, even (in the not too distant future) on a chip implanted
under her skin. And, perhaps best of all, you can program the money to be
spent only in specific ways. You might instruct some of the digits to go
for books, some for food and some for movies. Unless you pass along a few
digits that can be cashed at the local pub, she'll have to find someone
else to buy the drinks."

  Ha ha. Kind of cute, isn't it? But look again. Isn't the underlying theme
one of "control"? Try substituting a different scenario for Mr. Ramo's. How
about: "Think about the $1,000 Social Security check your agency sends a
retiree in Las Vegas. How is that money really spent? Food and lodging ...
or blackjack, roulette, and Margaritas?"

  If the purpose of government retirement insurance is to make sure old
folks have food and a roof over their head, doesn't the government have an
OBLIGATION to "earmark" portions of those checks so they can only be used
to buy certain things, once the new e-cash technology gives them that
capability? Couldn't we set e-cards to freeze a recipient's account if she
tried to use any of the "money" to pay for a second prescription of pain
pills written by a doctor other than her ASSIGNED doctor, or to buy a
naughty book about how to evade taxes, or how to move money into offshore
accounts?

  For that matter, what if your boss started earmarking parts of your
electronic paycheck for rent or groceries -- at certain stores that pay for
the consideration -- all "for your own good," you understand? After all,
the kind of soccer moms who elected Bill Clinton can be counted on to favor
almost (start ital)any(end ital) additional Big Brother controls over those
irresponsible men in their lives, frittering away their paychecks on bar
tabs, dirty magazines, power tools, and fancy chrome doo-dads for their
pickup trucks.


    #   #   #

  Donald S. McAlvany, editor of the economic and geopolitical newsletter
"The McAlvany Intelligence Advisor," is a fellow who has been looking into
the move toward trackable "electronic cash" for some time. The lead article
in the July, 1998 edition of his 16-page newsletter is headlined "Toward a
Cashless Society: Implementing an Electronic Currency in America," and
spells out a very different view of these developing trends from the one
embraced by the jovial publicists at Time:

  "The global socialists who dominate America and most of the governments
of the western world today (especially Western Europe) have long had a goal
of moving the world away from the use of cash and into an electronic funds
currency system, wherein virtually all cash in use is 'electronic
currency,' " writes Mr. McAlvany. "If all financial transactions are forced
through an electronic banking system ... the ultimate 'people control'
system could be established. ..."

  Citing George Orwell's classic novel "1984," Mr. McAlvany reminds us:
"Privacy is a major element of freedom, without which people and nations
cannot remain free. Today, we have dozens of privacy-destroying systems
being put in place by governments all over the world. They include video
camera surveillance in public places; electronic eavesdropping on
computers, phones and faxes; dozens of computerized files on each adult
American - compiled from credit card, banking, and tax records; physical
surveillance of homes, in whole areas via satellite, helicopters, and other
aircraft; the growing use of Social Security numbers to extract all kinds
of information on Americans from  business, banking, and government data
cases; photo IDs required at airports; and the push by the Clinton
Administration for a computerized (smart card) national identification card
for all U.S. citizens.

  "But the greatest privacy-destroying system of all, one which would have
made Big Brother's, Adolf Hitler's, Mao's, Lenin's or Stalin's mouths water
is the elimination of cash and the forcing of all citizens into the
computerized banking system for (start ital)all(end ital) transactions.
Ultimately these transactions can be monitored, recorded, profiled, and
used in 'people control.' If all of your personal transactions can be so
tracked, a socialist government bent on identifying, profiling and
controlling its 'politically incorrect' citizens or 'religious fanatics' or
Bible-believing Christians; gun owners; critics of the government; non-tax
compliers, can easily scrutinize and build a profile on such individuals.
It can also, in the absence of a cash-spending alternative, deny the
privilege to buy and sell to those who are politically or religiously
incorrect."

  Since one of the main problems banks may have during the anticipated
computer crisis brought about by the turning of the century is clearing
checks written on other banks -- banks whose computers may not agree with
the home bank's "fix" for the transition from year date 99 to year date 00
-- Mr. McAlvany suggests that crisis might present a perfect opportunity to
effectively require bank customers to change over from paper checks to
"electronic cash."

  "Remember that during the financial crisis of the 1930s, when Franklin
Roosevelt presented the American people with the alternative of a bank
holiday/gold confiscation/Draconian financial controls (start ital)or(end
ital) financial destruction, they willingly chose the former and gave up a
major portion of their financial freedom."


    #   #   #

  The removal of cash, of course, will be advertised as having many
benefits. Since drug dealers buy and sell their product with suitcases full
of hundred-dollar bills, it will be alleged that the switch will end the
drug trade (as though a multi-billion-dollar industry won't promptly hire
both fancy accountants and computer geniuses to figure out how to "go
electronic" without throwing blips on the IRS radar screens -- or as though
they won't just add newly "illegal" hundred-dollar bills to the list of
contraband they now freely move outside official channels.)

  Expect a public relations campaign to expose the "health hazard" of all
those dirty pennies and nickels you have lying around the house. Passed
from hand to hand among AIDS patients and tuberculosis-ridden junkies, how
can you let your children handle such stuff? Instead, buy Sean and Alysson
a new pair of color-coordinated, his-and-hers Kiddie Smart Cards, which
neatly deduct exactly $1.77 from their accounts when they buy lunch at
school, without burdening them down with filthy, wasteful, inconvenient
(and expensive to produce) coins ... coins they might otherwise save up,
after all, to buy dirty magazines, or reefer, or who knows what else?

  Yep, it's all for your health, safety, and convenience. And why would
anyone object ... unless, of course, they had something to (start
ital)hide(end ital). What was your name again? And could I have your
18-digit bank tracking number, please? You (start ital)are(end ital) in
this country legally, aren't you? Not some kind of a federal
fugitive/deadbeat dad? There, that's better. See how easy things are when
you cooperate? Just slide your card through the security/debit slot. Now
pass your wrist over the scanner to make sure your embedded personal chip
has the matching security code. Thank you; you may now move along. We know
you have a choice when you dine out; thank you for patronizing Burger
World.


    #   #   #

A full transcript of the "smart card online forum" session referred to at
the beginning of this essay, as well as a biography and smart card white
paper from each chat participant, can be accessed at
http://www.golinharris.com/mastercard.

Subscriptions to The McAlvany Intelligence Advisor ("in no way involved in
the tax resistance, militia, or sovereign citizens movements in the U.S.")
run a substantial $115 per year. Send subscription info to P.O. Box 84904,
Phoenix, Ariz. 85071, or telephone 800-528-0559.


Vin Suprynowicz is the assistant editorial page editor of the Las Vegas
Review-Journal. Readers may contact him via e-mail at vin@lvrj.com. Vin's
twice-weekly newspaper column, "The Libertarian," is syndicated in the
United States and Canada via Mountain Media Syndications, P.O. Box 4422,
Las Vegas Nev. 89127. Watch for Vin's book, "Send in the Waco Killers,"
coming from Huntington Press in early 1999.

***



Vin Suprynowicz,   vin@lvrj.com

Education rears disciples, imitators, and routinists, not pioneers of
new ideas and creative geniuses.  The schools are not nurseries of
progress and improvement, but conservatories of tradition and unvarying
modes of thought. -- Ludwig von Mises

The most difficult struggle of all is the one within ourselves. Let us not
get accustomed and adjusted to these conditions. The one who adjusts ceases
to discriminate between good and evil.  He becomes a slave in body and
soul. Whatever may happen to you, remember always: Don't adjust! Revolt
against the reality! -- Mordechai Anielewicz, Warsaw, 1943

* * *

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--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 20:12:03 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: TCQ ascii version
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


X-Authentication-Warning: tarnhelm.blu.org: majordom set sender to
owner-isig@blu.org using -f
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 03:08:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: Charles Demas 
To: isig@blu.org
Subject: Re: TCQ ascii version
MIME-Version: 1.0
Sender: owner-isig@blu.org
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: isig@blu.org

On Tue, 13 Oct 1998, David Meyer wrote:

> You are not the person who posted the original message, but I'll extend my
> request to you: provide some reasonable, legitimate, requirement for
> anonymity.

How about a government employee taking part in political discussion
without the fear of suffering some form of reprisal by their elected
superiors?

How about a gay person that's still in the closet that wants to discuss
how to explain their situation to their family without the fear that
their sexual preference would be exposed?

How about those that are HIV positive looking for support while living in
a small town that is very afraid of those with HIV, and where the
knowledge that one is HIV positive has driven people from the community?

How about someone that feels they may be getting sexually harassed but
isn't sure that they want to confront their harasser, but wants some
advice?

How about a rape, incest, or domestic violence victim that is looking for
some support group but doesn't want to go public yet?

How about the alcoholic, drug user, gambler trying to come to terms with
their problem.  How about the relatives of those with that type of
problem that are looking for a private way to deal/handle the problems
associated with their relative's problem?

How about the runaway that is looking for a way to go home, or the
suicidal person that is looking for help.  Must they go public to
get that help, or should they be able to ask questions anonymously?

How about the person that wants to turn in someone that's going to
commit a crime?

There are lots of good reasons that people want privacy and anonymity,
and lots of them have to do with the prejudices of others about the
issue that the person wants to keep private.


Chuck Demas
Needham, Mass.


> I can think of one reason to treasure anonymity: fear of retribution.
> For what? Oh, anything. Doesn't matter what. You are planning to do
> something that will cause someone else to take notice of you and respond
> in a way you fear. Send you to jail? Fire you? Break your fingers? Close
> your internet access? The problem is that these things are seldom done
> on a whim. Mostly, for just cause. Who says it is just? You do. You say
> "I am about to do something that's going to bring heaven and earth down
> around my shoulders if I do not protect my identity." This fear may be
> real or imagined.
>
> Please explain, with some detail, what reason a sane, guiltless person
> might have for anonymity. Giving away $million$?
>
> --
> To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to majordomo@blu.org
> with the following text in the *body* (*not* the subject line) of the letter:
> unsubscribe isig
>

  Eat Healthy    |   _ _   | Nothing would be done at all,
  Stay Fit       |   @ @   | If a man waited to do it so well,
  Die Anyway     |    v    | That no one could find fault with it.
  demas@tiac.net |  \___/  | http://www.tiac.net/users/demas

--
To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to majordomo@blu.org
with the following text in the *body* (*not* the subject line) of the letter:
unsubscribe isig

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 20:23:50 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: IP: [FP] Boiling the frog: Much will depend on 'electronicmoney'
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> Below, please find the canonical anti-book-entry settlement privacy rant,
>written by one of my favorite ranters in general, Vin Suprynowicz.

...which, of course, we've seen already.

Sheesh.

Sorry about that, folks. Call it mail-buffer overload, or something. :-).

Sometimes it's not the the cross-fire, it's the ricochets which get you.

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Walter Burton 
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 20:35:57 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: _PI_ movie
Message-ID: <013D438ED22ED2119F630060082F763C08A75F@kenny.pipestream.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

My wife and I went and saw the movie _PI_ this past weekend.  I was
attracted to it 'cause of the subject matter.  One reviewer wrote that
the protagonist was a "tortured genius steeped in an intriguing blend
of advanced mathematics and mystical Jewish cabala."

I suspect a fair number of cypherpunks' curiosity would be piqued by
such a description.  Well, don't waste the 5 bucks.  It's
self-indulgent, pretentious, second-year-film-student crap.  It's
whiny, "woe-is-me-tortured-genius" drivel.  It's
"squinty-cinematography-for-the-sake-of-squinty-cinematography"
effluvium.  

Here's the plot, in a nutshell:

1. Ah, I understand advanced mathematics SO WELL; I see patterns
EVERYwhere!  But alas, I cannot enjoy life's pleasures because I am,
de rigueur, a TORTURED GENIUS!

2. And my mentor USED to be a TORTURED GENIUS, but he stopped studying
THE PROFOUND MYSTERIES, and now he's happy and FUN!  What a WUSS!

[Oh yeah, and I suffer REALLY bad migraines.]

3. Isn't PI cool?

4. Aren't Fibonacci numbers neat?

5. Whaddya suppose The Holy Unspeakable Name of God is?

6. Oh, easy, it's 9049348384737...[insert 198 digits here]...32343.

7. I RUSH to tell my mentor what I've discovered, but, alas, my
ruthless taunting prompted him to re-open his investigation of THE
PROFOUND MYSTERIES and he couldn't hack it -- his brain overloaded and
he died of a stroke.  Damn!

8. So I dramatically BURN all my PROFOUND MYSTERIES conclusions and
the director inserts the requisite "shocking scene everyone will be
talking about" by having me lobotomize myself with an electric drill.

9. Next, I'm sitting on a park bench, playing games with a child
(Quintessential Innocence).  I am finally ENJOYING LIFE, appreciating
the leaves on the trees and such.  But this kid, she wants to play
math games with me, which of course symbolizes the fact that IT'S NOT
OVER!

10. The end.

And it's all shot on shitty stock in crackly black and white.  So
basically, it's about two gay cowboys and some pudding.


\\/alter
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 6.0 for non-commercial use 
Comment: For my public key, send a msg with "public key" in the subj.

iQA/AwUBNiM/4I0Llo1Bf1gWEQJmsQCfXb10feuUz/N/Jn5zxkFqymmS+gQAoI/8
4QQzJGO4rtATMDQ7zbfm0I8P
=kw8W
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 21:18:48 +0800
To: cryptography@c2.net
Subject: "It's a Hardware Problem..."
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Delivered-To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
X-Sender: believer@telepath.com
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 06:33:46 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com
From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Sandia Labs: Foiling Hackers: World's Smallest Combination Lock
Mime-Version: 1.0
Sender: owner-ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
Precedence: list
Reply-To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  EurekAlert!
http://www.eurekalert.org/releases/snl-wsclpt.html

EMBARGOED FOR RELEASE: 12 OCTOBER 1998 AT 02:00:00 ET US

 Contact: Chris Burroughs
 coburro@sandia.go
 505-844-0948
 Sandia National Laboratories

 "World's Smallest Combination Lock" Promises
 To Foil The Best Computer Hacker, Say Sandia
 Developers

ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. -- The "world's smallest combination lock," a minuscule
mechanical device developed at Sandia National Laboratories, promises to
build a virtually impenetrable computer firewall that even the best hacker
can't beat. The Recodable Locking Device, which uses microelectromechanical
system (MEMS) technology so small that it takes a microscope to see it, is
a series of tiny notched gears that move to the unlocked position only when
the right code is entered. It's the first known mechanical hardware
designed to keep unwanted guests from breaking codes and illegally entering
computer and other secure systems.

"Computer firewalls have always been dependent on software, which means
they are 'soft' and subject to manipulations," says Larry Dalton, manager
of Sandia's High Integrity Software Systems Engineering Department. "Our
device is hardware and is extremely difficult to break into. You have one
and only one chance in a million of picking exactly the right code compared
to a one in 10,000 chance, with many additional chances, in most software
firewalls. After one failed try, this new device mechanically shuts down
and can't be reset and reopened except by the owner."

Patent filed

Sandia, a Department of Energy (DOE) national security lab, recently filed
for a patent for the mechanism. The first working units were fabricated in
July. The Sandia team, which is refining the device and doing reliability
tests, expects to have it ready for commercialization in about two years.
Once it is perfected, a commercial partner will be tapped to produce and
sell it. "The Recodable Locking Device should be of great interest to
businesses and individuals who have computer networks, have sites on the
Web, or require secure computers," says Frank Peter, engineer who designed
the device. "It would make it virtually impossible for break-ins to Web
sites, like what occurred with The New York Times in September." (Hackers
broke into the Times' electronic edition in mid-September and shut it down
for several hours.)

Computer crime is a growing problem nationwide. The Computer Security
Institute together with the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) recently
surveyed 520 security practitioners in US corporations, government
agencies, financial institutions, and universities. Results showed that 64
percent of the respondents reported computer security breaches within the
last 12 months. And although 72 percent said they suffered financial losses
from these breaches, only 42 percent were able to quantify their losses --
estimating them to be more than $136.8 million.

Dalton says he 'had the notion' of the device for three years, calling it
the 'digital isolation and incompatibility' project. Digital was for the
digital world, and isolation and incompatibility are important concepts in
stronglinks, which are mechanical locks used as safety devices in weapons.
He turned to Sandia's Electromechanical Engineering Department, headed by
David Plummer, to do the design because of that group's expertise in
stronglinks as well as its ability to design using the new MEMS technology.

Simple system

"It took about three months to go from concept to the final design," Peter
says. "Based on a code storage scheme used successfully in existing weapon
surety subsystems, we were able to design a very simple device -- and it's
the simplicity of the device that makes it easy to analyze from a
vulnerability standpoint."

The Sandia Microelectronics Development Laboratory used Peter's design to
build a working device, which consists of a series of six code wheels, each
less than 300 microns in diameter, driven by electrostatic comb drives that
turn electrical impulses into mechanical motion. The 'lock owner' sets a
lock combination to any value from one to one million. The entire device is
about 9.4 millimeters by 4.7 millimeters, about the size of a button on a
dress shirt. The Recodable Locking Device consists of two sides -- the user
side and the secure side. To unlock the device, a user must enter a code
that identically matches the code stored mechanically in the six code
wheels. If the user makes even one wrong entry -- and close doesn't count
-- the device mechanically 'locks up' and does not allow any further tries
until the owner resets it from the secure side.

The six gears and the comb drives would be put on a small chip that could
be incorporated into any computer, computer network, or security system.
Because the chip is built using integrated circuit fabricating techniques,
hundreds can be constructed on a single six-inch silicon wafer. The end
result is that the device will be very inexpensive to produce.

Plummer says Sandia is the only place where development of such a mechanism
could have occurred. "That's due to the unique multilevel polysilicon
fabrication process developed by Sandia and our heritage of designing
mechanical locking devices," he says. Besides being a deterrent to hackers,
the device has other security applications, Peter says. For example,
controlled information could be made available only in a window of
opportunity. The information owner could tell the party needing the data
that he or she has five minutes to enter in a specific code and gain
access. Then, after five minutes, the code would be reset and access denied.

A variety of potential safety applications are also possible with the
Recodable Locking Device. The mechanism can confirm that a critical system
is operating as expected. And if it detects a problem, it will not permit
execution of a function. In this safety capacity, the device could be used,
for example, to ensure that a radiation therapy machine delivers the
correct radiation dosage. "This device has a powerful potential -- one that
is readily understood by most everyone," Dalton says. "I've been told by
Department of Defense people that this is the first real technical
advancement in information security that they've seen in a long time."

Sandia is a multiprogram DOE laboratory, operated by a subsidiary of
Lockheed Martin Corp. With main facilities in Albuquerque, N.M., and
Livermore, Calif., Sandia has major research and development
responsibilities in national security, energy, and environmental
technologies and economic competitiveness.
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




**********************************************
To subscribe or unsubscribe, email:
     majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com
with the message:
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**********************************************
www.telepath.com/believer
**********************************************

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Brown, R Ken" 
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 21:56:11 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Soccer Moms?
Message-ID: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F84C8@MSX11002>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



In the middle of an interesting article about digital cash, forwarded
here by Bob Hettinga, there was the line:

> After all, the kind of soccer moms who elected Bill Clinton

"Divided by a common language" as I am  I genuinly don't know what that
means. And I can't even guess from context. I'd have expected a dig at
liberals or feminists or welfare recipients at that point; and I can't
work out what soccer has to do with it.

Do mothers play soccer much in the USA?

Football (as the 95% of the world's population that aren't either
English-speaking North Americans or else Rugby fans call the Beautiful
Game) is associated in my mind with young men, specifically working
class men. It's connotations are entirely macho, even violent.  When a
big match is on men gather in pubs and bars and shout at TVs whilst
knocking back the lager. You avoid the centre of town if you don't want
to risk getting involved in a fight.  People get *killed* at football
matches.  That's pretty much true in every big city inthe world outside
North America (and Japan where the fans are polite). 

This honestly isn't a troll - I am in fact bewildered by the phrase.  

Ken Brown




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Gillogly 
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 23:55:16 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Soccer Moms?
Message-ID: <362371A1.4AE44412@acm.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Ken Brown wonders about this phrase:
>> After all, the kind of soccer moms who elected Bill Clinton

>"Divided by a common language" as I am  I genuinly don't know what that
>means. And I can't even guess from context.

"Soccer moms" are the suburban mothers who efficiently perform any
number of child-rearing tasks, including taking their kids in a
sports utility vehicle (an awful invention) to soccer practice.
Soccer is increasingly popular and available to girls as well as
boys.  Women in general favored Clinton, and soccer moms in
particular are the women most likely to vote... since they're doing
everything else, working in a trip to the polls is nothing to them.

Probably sounds as arcane as "Sloane Rangers" does over here, eh?

-- 
	Jim Gillogly
	Sterday, 22 Winterfilth S.R. 1998, 15:20
	12.19.5.10.15, 6 Men 8 Yax, Eighth Lord of Night




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 00:22:41 +0800
To: "Brown, R Ken" 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 6:28 AM -0700 10/13/98, Brown, R Ken wrote:
>In the middle of an interesting article about digital cash, forwarded
>here by Bob Hettinga, there was the line:
>
>> After all, the kind of soccer moms who elected Bill Clinton
>
>"Divided by a common language" as I am  I genuinly don't know what that
>means. And I can't even guess from context. I'd have expected a dig at
>liberals or feminists or welfare recipients at that point; and I can't
>work out what soccer has to do with it.
>
>Do mothers play soccer much in the USA?
>
>Football (as the 95% of the world's population that aren't either
>English-speaking North Americans or else Rugby fans call the Beautiful
>Game) is associated in my mind with young men, specifically working
>class men. It's connotations are entirely macho, even violent.  When a
>big match is on men gather in pubs and bars and shout at TVs whilst
>knocking back the lager. You avoid the centre of town if you don't want
>to risk getting involved in a fight.  People get *killed* at football
>matches.  That's pretty much true in every big city inthe world outside
>North America (and Japan where the fans are polite).

Theory 1: "Soccer moms" gather everyday to practice killing each other with
broken bottles.

Theory 2: Soccer (=football, outside the U.S.) has become a popular after
school thing for girls and boys. More so than other sports. Mothers who
don't work assume the role of ferrying the children to and from practice
and games, watching them as they practice, etc. More common in affluent
suburbs.

The term "soccer mom" seems to have arisen in about 1992, as in the
sentence: "In affluent Connecticut, soccer moms form the base of
Presidential hopeful Bill Clinton's support."

--Tim May


Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash.
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: xenophon@serv.net
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 00:33:38 +0800
To: Walter Burton 
Subject: Re: _PI_ movie
In-Reply-To: <013D438ED22ED2119F630060082F763C08A781@kenny.pipestream.com>
Message-ID: <3623084C.FD708978@serv.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I agree that there were one too many "tortured genius
staring in the mirror while flooded by angst" scenes. Okay, perhaps two
or three too many. That having been said, I found the themes interesting.
Maybe I am sophomoric, but I will always find the fibonacci constant facsinating.
I was impressed that the director did not overstep the bounds of his understanding
of it and Kabbalah. Many directors who broach either topic have a tendency
to take what little they know and extrapolate off into meaninglessness.
Also, I liked the soundtrack, and the scene where the protaganist 
is "saved" by the group of Hasids. (Were they in an Aries K car? I found
that scene hilarious.)

Yes, it was pretentious in parts; but given the topics
this film concerned itself with, that was inevitable. And I would watch
the film 3.1416...times a day for a week before I would watch any
of the current slew of politcally correct propaganda pretending to be art
that gets pumped out by Hollywood. I venture to guess that there was more
to think about in Pi then there was in "One True Thing" or will be in "Beloved."
42,396. Er...no. 42,489. Um, wait. 23,777. yeah that's it.Xenophon

P.S. Has anyone seen the 2nd edition of "Maximum Security" yet? Any
reviews?
 


From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 22:01:11 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: FYI: More on WebTV security
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


X-Sender: dstoler@gptmail.globalpac.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 05:38:59 -0700
To: Pablo Calamera , rah@shipwright.com,
        mac-crypto@vmeng.com
From: dstoler@globalpac.com (dstoler)
Subject: Re: FYI: More on WebTV security
Cc: jimg@mentat.com

Dear all,

This message discusses Microsoft's recent press release where they announce
unlimited 128 bit RC4 export approval for WebTV users in Japan and the UK
with no key escrow. They announce secure email between WebTV users in
addition to security for financial services, web shopping, etc.

http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/1998/Oct98/EncryptionPR.htm (See
the end of this message for key paragraphs of the press release.)

I rarely post messages on the crypto mailing lists. I am sufficiently
disturbed by Microsoft's recent WebTV press release that I feel compelled
to comment.

The press release implies that there is secure end-to-end email between two
WebTV customers.

Perhaps I am overly cynical, but I am guessing that they are using SSL
(TLS) from a web based email application on the client to WebTV's servers.
I presume email data is decrypted at the servers, then re-encrypted to the
recipient when she uses the WebTV client to read email.

This approach would allow access to private email at the servers by WebTV
employees or law enforcement agencies.

Note the careful use of the phrases "unauthorized party" and "without
posing undo risks to national security and law enforcement" in the press
release.

I believe that WebTV's email security is directly coupled to their ability
to establish and enforce good security policy within their operation and
the trustworthiness of the employees who have access to sensitive data.

I am concerned that carefully constructed wording of Microsoft's press
release implies stronger email security than really exists. I hope I am
wrong.

David Stoler


Key paragraphs from Microsoft's press release:

WebTV Networks has been granted the first export license to use strong
128-bit encryption for any user and any application in Japan and the United
Kingdom. So, for example, an e-mail message with personal information sent
from a WebTV subscriber in Japan to a second WebTV subscriber in Japan will
be sent securely because there is no known technology by which an
unauthorized party could intercept and decipher it.

Therefore, as part of the WebTV Network, the WebTV-based Internet terminal
(starting at under $100) is now the most secure communications device
available from a U.S. company.

"WebTV Networks' export approval is a significant step for industry and
reflects the U.S. government's commitment to promoting e-commerce abroad,"
said William Reinsch, U.S. undersecretary for export administration. "The
WebTV Network provides secure communications for its customers and partners
without posing undue risks to national security and law enforcement."

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 00:49:56 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: New Technologies for Espionage
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



It seems that the "old technologies" are approaching their end. This guy
got caught by having too many physical contacts:

-- walking into the Soviet embassy (well-known to be under surveillance)

-- presumably using dead drops to exchange documents and money

-- relying on a physical contact with an unknown person (whom he thought to
be KGB, incorrectly)

Digital dead drops and digital cash will eventually revolutionize spying.
The digital dead drops are here now, though not the digital cash.

--Tim May


Tuesday October 13 11:49 AM EDT

Ex-U.S. Army Analyst Arrested On Spy Charges

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A former U.S. Army intelligence analyst has been
arrested on charges of spying for Russia by allegedly passing to KGB agents
highly classified
documents from 1988 to 1991, federal law enforcement officials said Tuesday.

They said David Sheldon Boone, who worked for the military's super-secret
National Security Agency, was scheduled to appear in federal court in
Alexandria, Virginia, later
Tuesday.

According to the criminal complaint, Boone, who was arrested Saturday,
began spying in 1988 after he walked into the Soviet embassy in Washington
and volunteered his
services.

He was charged with meeting his Russian handler about four times a year
between late 1988 and when he retired from the Army in 1991. Boone
allegedly was paid more than
$60,000 for the highly sensitive, top-secret documents he gave them.

He allegedly gave the Russians documents about the capabilities and
movements of Soviet forces and about Soviet tactical nuclear weapons. He
also allegedly gave the Russians a
document based on information that the National Security Agency, which
conducts eavesdropping operations around the world, had intercepted.

Boone was arrested after he was contacted in September by an individual who
worked on behalf of the FBI, but whom he believed to be a Russian agent.
According to the
complaint, he had agreed to resume his espionage activities.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "LiveUpdate News" 
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 00:14:23 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Crescendo News - October 1998
Message-ID: <021932948130da8RELAY2@relay2.liveupdate.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



CRESCENDO NEWS - October 1998

Well, we're back from Internet World, and have a lot of exciting 
things to let you know about!  The foliage in Massachusetts is 
finally turning color, the air is crisp, and it's almost time to
start thinking about tuning up the snowboard.

Here are some of the items covered in this newsletter:

* Paula Cole's "I Don't Want To Wait" streams with Crescendo Forte
* Crescendo Forte featured at Fall Internet World
* Behind the scenes - how to create Crescendo Forte music
* EP Release by Crescendo Forte artist "Gigi"
* What is a "SYSX"?
* Powerful authoring tools available in our online store
* Subscribing / Unsubscribing

----------------------------------

PAULA COLE STREAMS WITH CRESCENDO FORTE

Have you visited the Crescendo Forte Showcase lately?  The latest 
addition to our growing showcase is the Crescendo Forte version of 
Paula Cole's hit single "I Don't Want To Wait". This is a historic 
event - Paula has become the first major artist *ever* to have her 
content featured using Crescendo Forte.  As the winner of the 1998 
Grammy for "Best New Artist", Cole's latest album "This Fire" has 
fostered three major singles including "I Don't Want To Wait," 
which has been pegged as the theme to the new hit TV series, 
Dawson's Creek. KizoMusic produced this incredible demo using 
Crescendo Forte to add high-quality drums, piano, and bass guitar 
to a RealAudio-encoded version of the original cut from the CD.  
You don't need anything more than a 28.8 modem and a Pentium-class 
PC to enjoy both the video and audio versions of this song. See and 
hear it for yourself at the Crescendo Forte Showcase, 
http://www.liveupdate.com/cforte/showcase.html.

----------------------------------

CRESCENDO FORTE FEATURED AT FALL INTERNET WORLD	

At the Fall Internet World conference earlier this month in New 
York City, standing-room-only crowds watched on and listened as 
RealNetworks presented the latest technology for music broadcast 
on the Internet.  Featured in their presentation was Crescendo 
Forte, playing a video clip from Paula Cole.  If you weren't able 
to make it to Internet World, you can still see and hear the 
Paula Cole clip by visiting the Crescendo Forte Showcase at
http://www.liveupdate.com/cforte/showcase.html.  

----------------------------------

BEHIND THE SCENES - HOW TO CREATE CRESCENDO FORTE MUSIC

So your band has a CD to promote and you want to make the 
highest quality presentation over the Internet?  RealSystem G2 
and Crescendo Forte together deliver a rich listening experience 
requiring very low bandwidth.  Learn how to take your existing 
music and publish it using Crescendo Forte with our new step-by-step 
production guide, available on-line at 
http://www.liveupdate.com/cforte/authoring.html.  When you're done, 
send us your files for review and we may feature your music on the 
Crescendo Forte Showcase area!

----------------------------------

CD RELEASE BY CRESCENDO FORTE ARTIST "GIGI"

If you liked what you heard from Gigi in the Crescendo Forte 
Showcase, you'll love her new 6-song CD!  Part of Crescendo Forte's 
appeal is that it allows less-well-known acts such as Gigi to get 
broad exposure.  To thank all of you for listening to her music, 
she has agreed to distribute her new CD, "Tinted Window", which 
contains full studio productions of her songs that are highlighted
on the showcase, for just $6.95 including shipping & handling.  Order 
on-line today at https://secure.liveupdate.com, and you'll receive 
the CD by mail, so that you can enjoy her music both on and off-line.

----------------------------------

WHAT IS A "SYSX"?

You have probably seen an option in the Crescendo pull-down menu 
titled "Enable SYSEX Messages", and might have wondered what the 
option means.  Crescendo PLUS supports playback of System Exclusive 
(SYSX) messages.  Ever wonder how that General MIDI song you 
downloaded automatically configures delay, reverb, distortion, and 
patch edits while it plays?  MIDI files use embedded SYSX messages
to control synthesizer settings.  Crescendo PLUS will detect and 
send these hidden SYSX messages to your synthesizer or sound card.  
Many commercially manufactured MIDI files contain SYSX messages, 
so you may not hear what the MIDI musician intended until you get 
Crescendo PLUS.  Crescendo PLUS is available for $19.95 at our 
on-line store, https://secure.liveupdate.com.  Get it now, and hear 
what you've been missing!

----------------------------------

POWERFUL AUTHORING TOOLS AVAILABLE IN CRESCENDO ONLINE STORE

With the right tools, you can be a Crescendo composer.  The 
Crescendo PLUS Roland Edition for Windows 95/98 has everything 
you need to create and play great music on the Internet.  Here's 
what you get:

*Cakewalk Express 
    - record, edit, mix, and publish your own MIDI files
*Do Re Mix 
    - drag and drop ready-made musical parts to create instant songs 
*Crescendo PLUS for Internet Explorer and Netscape 
    - play streaming music over the Internet
*Virtual Sound Canvas software synthesizer 
    - Orlando's wavetable instrument sounds for your PC
*Plus over 100 ready-made MIDI song files to use in your productions

The Crescendo PLUS Roland Edition, with all of the above, is 
available for $65, including shipping and handling!  Visit 
http://www.liveupdate.com/soundcanvas.html for more details, 
or to order now.

----------------------------------

SUBSCRIBING / UNSUBSCRIBING

You're receiving this email because you downloaded Crescendo in the 
past, and we want to keep you up to date with some of the exciting 
things that are happening at LiveUpdate.  We hope you are enjoying 
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Walter Burton 
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 22:32:39 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: _PI_ movie
Message-ID: <013D438ED22ED2119F630060082F763C08A781@kenny.pipestream.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



My wife and I went and saw the movie _PI_ this past weekend.  I was
attracted to it 'cause of the subject matter.  One reviewer wrote that
the protagonist was a "tortured genius steeped in an intriguing blend
of advanced mathematics and mystical Jewish cabala."

I suspect a fair number of cypherpunks' curiosity would be piqued by
such a description.  Well, don't waste the 5 bucks.  It's
self-indulgent, pretentious, second-year-film-student crap.  It's
whiny, "woe-is-me-tortured-genius" drivel.  It's
"squinty-cinematography-for-the-sake-of-squinty-cinematography"
effluvium.  

Here's the plot, in a nutshell:

1. Ah, I understand advanced mathematics SO WELL; I see patterns
EVERYwhere!  But alas, I cannot enjoy life's pleasures because I am,
de rigueur, a TORTURED GENIUS!

2. And my mentor USED to be a TORTURED GENIUS, but he stopped studying
THE PROFOUND MYSTERIES, and now he's happy and FUN!  What a WUSS!

[Oh yeah, and I suffer REALLY bad migraines.]

3. Isn't PI cool?

4. Aren't Fibonacci numbers neat?

5. Whaddya suppose The Holy Unspeakable Name of God is?

6. Oh, easy, it's 9049348384737...[insert 198 digits here]...32343.

7. I RUSH to tell my mentor what I've discovered, but, alas, my
ruthless taunting prompted him to re-open his investigation of THE
PROFOUND MYSTERIES and he couldn't hack it -- his brain overloaded and
he died of a stroke.  Damn!

8. So I dramatically BURN all my PROFOUND MYSTERIES conclusions and
the director inserts the requisite "shocking scene everyone will be
talking about" by having me lobotomize myself with an electric drill.

9. Next, I'm sitting on a park bench, playing games with a child
(Quintessential Innocence).  I am finally ENJOYING LIFE, appreciating
the leaves on the trees and such.  But this kid, she wants to play
math games with me, which of course symbolizes the fact that IT'S NOT
OVER!

10. The end.

And it's all shot on shitty stock in crackly black and white.  So
basically, it's about two gay cowboys and some pudding.


\\/alter




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Ernest Hua" 
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 01:36:42 +0800
To: "Brown, R Ken" 
Subject: Re: FBI to inaugurate national DNA database
Message-ID: <004b01bdf6cb$23ad5d00$4164a8c0@mve21>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I'm not talking about whether the FBI/NSA is setting us up
politically; they may very well be doing just that.  The point
is that we need to win wars by winning battles, but it's hard
to win battles by sticking to absolute principles and eventually
third parties looking no longer find you credible.  If we can
stick to pointing out just how similar GAK/KR is to cameras in
every bedroom, then we can win the battles and the war.  If
we just stick to either we get 100% of what we want or we
don't want it, then the FBI/NSA can manipulate the public into
thinking that we would never agree to anything the FBI/NSA
wants.

Remember ... we don't have what we want yet ... despite
some of the rhetoric on this list, and the FBI/NSA is trying to
win a war of attrition.

Ern

-----Original Message-----
From: Brown, R Ken 
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net ; 'Ernest Hua'

Date: Tuesday, October 13, 1998 2:56 AM
Subject: RE: FBI to inaugurate national DNA database


>> I think it would be a very bad idea for civil liberties
>> groups to come out 100% against this.  So far all they
>> have said is that they intend to log all convicted criminals.
>> If the C.L. groups complain about that, then it would be too
>> easy for the FBI to turn around and say, "Geez! These guys
>> complain about anything and everything we do!"
>
>I think you are falling for the old bazaar bargaining trick.  The guy
>wants to sell you a carpet that is worth a shekel. He reckons he can do
>you for ten shekels. So he starts the bidding at a hundred  and you
>think you've done well when you've beaten him down to fifteen.  America
>is - cypherpunks tell me - a country where people worry about their
>social security number being kept on databases,  where caller id on
>phones  can be a hot political issue.  This DNA business is far more
>intrusive and dangerous than any of that. Don't fall for it!
>
>Don't fall for the argument that it is only the bad guys who get tagged.
>They can define anyone they want as a bad guy. How many people do you
>know who have never done anything for which they could be convicted as a
>criminal? Never driven a car faster then the speed limit, never smoked
>dope, never ridden a bicycle on the pavement, never been drunk in a
>public place? To a large extent the set of  "convicted criminals" is
>governed by police or court decisions rather than by the actions of the
>criminals.
>
>Over here in Britain we've had a long succession of intrusive, abusive
>laws promulgated in the name of public safety, law and order, peace on
>the streets.  The previous government had their absurd "dangerous dogs
>act" which became a laughing stock before the ink was dry then their
>horrendous and evil  "Criminal Justice Bill"  with racist provisions
>allowing the police to persecute travellers and uttely useless laws
>against "music with repetitive beats" not to mention new rules to
>control "young offenders, bailed  persons, squatters, travellers,
>ravers,  protesters, trespassers, arrested persons,  defendants,
>hunt-saboteurs, pornographers, video pirates, obscene telephone-callers,
>prisoners, racists, terrorists, ticket touts, cannabis-smokers, serious
>fraudsters and not  forgetting gay men under 18."
>
>The current lot aren't as bad, and are certainly more well-intentioned
>but they haven't repealed any of the earlier stuff and are, bit by bit,
>filling in the few gaps in the wall of regulation and legislation the
>Tories built around anyone who wasn't a middle-aged white  man who
>worked 9 to 5, living in a suburb with a car and a mortgage,  who  never
>went out.
>
>Our current Home Secretary (cabinet minister with responsibility for
>police anong other things)  was probably the first person in such a
>position in any major country who was brought up by a single mother on a
>violent estate (what you'd call a housing project in America) and he
>thinks he knows - no he *does* know - what most ordinary people in
>environments like that want from life. So he proposes law after law to
>make things better, to tell people how they ought to live, all with the
>best of intentions. Curfews for children (you ask questions and he will
>just come back at you and say "do you *really* think 9-year-old children
>should be wandering around on their own at night, or in gangs?" to which
>the honest answer is "no, but it's none of your business if they do").
>Compulsory parenting education  for parents whose children commit
>crimes. A national register of paedophiles - which is made public,  so a
>couple of convicted child abusers, on being released from jail asked to
>be taken back in again because their life wasn't safe outside.  Defining
>email that goes outside the country as "export" so that writing about
>bombs (or cryptography?) can come under the strategic arms export
>regulations. And so on.
>
>And all the while local councils put up cameras in every high street...





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 22:45:34 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Crypto Laxatives
Message-ID: <199810131412.KAB25441@camel14.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Senators Lott and Kerrey have made crypto core dumps
in recent days:

   http://jya.com/lott100998.txt

   http://jya.com/kerrey101298.txt

Lott says 56-bit crypto is bad, and recites its weaknesses,
reading a script he doesn't know shit about, hair and mind
immutably fixatived.

Kerrey Lincoln Monuments long dead Nat sec with Info Tech 
faux marbre, frutilessly limoing around DC torrist piles looking 
for The American People, while Super-Coifed Cohen aimlessly 
sends Cold War B52s to PR-bomb Menwith Hill targets -- unruly 
wildhair ups -- protecting what Kerrey can't find.

Clinton and Yeltsin will shortly morph into Serbian hair ball.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Burnes 
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 00:49:41 +0800
To: "Brown, R Ken" 
Subject: Re: Soccer Moms?
In-Reply-To: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F84C8@MSX11002>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Tue, 13 Oct 1998, Brown, R Ken wrote:

> In the middle of an interesting article about digital cash, forwarded
> here by Bob Hettinga, there was the line:
> 
> > After all, the kind of soccer moms who elected Bill Clinton
> 
> "Divided by a common language" as I am  I genuinly don't know what that
> means. And I can't even guess from context. I'd have expected a dig at
> liberals or feminists or welfare recipients at that point; and I can't
> work out what soccer has to do with it.
> 
> Do mothers play soccer much in the USA?
> 

etc...

The answer you search for is:

In US primary schools (mostly in affluent suburbs), soccer (football)
is a very popular fall/winter sport for ages 7-14.

Soccer moms are the mothers that haul their sons and daughters around
after school and on Saturday mornings in minivans to these games.

"Soccer moms" connotes a particular kind of woman.  Its difficult to
give you an exact definition although its usually slightly deragatory.
Lets try to describe her:

Middle to Upper Middle class
White
Mid-thirties
Average Intelligence
Thinks Bill Clinton is a Stud
Probably a Career Mom and thinks working 9-5 in a big corporate
arcology is a pretty neat thing
(not relative to unemployment, but relative to others who think its a
trap)
Probably religious, either WASP, Catholic or Statist.

This, at least, is the stereotype.  YMMV.

Jim








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Steve Bryan 
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 01:27:44 +0800
To: Robert Hettinga 
Subject: Re: FYI: More on WebTV security
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Has anyone hacked WebTV to enable a terminal to connect to a plain vanilla
ISP (or better yet a local ethernet) or is it inexorably tied to their
network of proxy servers? I get the impression that like a Newton or any
other graphically limited device a WebTV browser would have to be aided by
a proxy server that translates the content to more amenable form before it
can take a crack at it. If it were possible to divorce it from their
service it might be a nifty device for less than $100. This would become
especially appealing if 128 bit crypto were thrown into the bargain.

Steve Bryan
Vendorsystems International
email: sbryan@vendorsystems.com
icq: 5263678
pgp fingerprint: D758 183C 8B79 B28E 6D4C  2653 E476 82E6 DA7C 9AC5





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 18:43:51 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com
Subject: BATF strike again
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



CHRISTINE L. PETERSON 

Friends skeptical of official account October 8, 1998
http://www.bakersfield.com/top/i--1304241419.asp

       
By CHRISTINE L. PETERSON
Californian staff writer 

Disbelief permeated the tight-knit communities of Taft and Ford City Thursday as residents and friends of Darryl Howell questioned law
enforcement's account of his death in his gun shop. 

The Kern County Sheriff Department's version of the events - that the gun shop owner grabbed a loaded .45-caliber handgun Wednesday,
struggled with officers and then placed the barrel in his mouth and pulled the trigger -just didn't fit with what they knew of the father of two. 

Sheriff's officials said a Taft police officer, not knowing where the expended round went, immediately fired three rounds that struck Howell, 45,
on the right side of his body. He died at the scene. 

"Everyone in Taft knows this is stupid," said Shannon Ong, 34, Howell's niece. "They think the police officers are trying to make it seem like he
was a criminal." 

Ong believes there could be nothing further from the truth - that the man who grew up in Taft and graduated from Taft Union High School
where yearbooks say he played football and was in the band was a wonderful man who ran an upstanding business. 

While at least one family member and friends said Howell was vocal in support of gun rights, they did not believe he would condone any illegal
behavior or sell illegal firearms. 

"The way that press release makes him sound, well, he just would have never done anything like that," Ong said after reading a copy of a
sheriff's news release on the incident. 

ATF agents went to Alpha Omega Surplus and Supplies Store as part of a four-year firearms trafficking investigation, said ATF special agent
Tracy Hite. 

She said ATF was assisted in serving a warrant by the Taft Police Department and Kern County Sheriff's Department. 

"This was a lengthy investigation that led us to several locations," Hite said, explaining that there were search warrants for five locations and
arrest warrants for three people in Kern County. 

Ong estimated her uncle had the business for 15 to 20 years, first within Taft city limits and then in the county. 

At the business Thursday, some family members and friends gathered at the shop. A bumper sticker on a window bore the message: "Only
tyrants and criminals fear honest armed citizens." Recorded programs blared from speakers outside the shop. 

"I just don't understand it," said friend Jamie Walchock. 

She said that while she didn't share Howell's support of guns, she respected him because he looked on the bright side of life, listened to and
worked with people on their problems and was satisfied with making ends meet. She said Howell talked about moving. 

"In the 12 years I have known him, I have never seen him upset," Walchock said. 

To her, Howell was a law-abiding citizen; she said he didn't like helmets so he stopped riding his motorcycle when the helmet law went into
effect. 

"I know in a million years he wouldn't ever shoot himself or lunge at a police officer," Walchock said. 

Ken Bishop, who would sometimes visit Howell at his shop, said Howell was "somewhat of a patriot" and would share his opinions about guns.
He said that law enforcement's statement that Howell had illegal firearms seems "off the wall." 

Mike Hodges, the publisher of Golden Empire Review, said Howell asked to have a column printed in the paper titled, "Notes from Moron." 

Taft was called Moron in 1908, according to "Kern County Place Names." The city changed its name to Taft in 1909. 

In the column, Howell quotes several passages from the Bible. The column Hodges attributed to Howell states, "It is not an hone to be in the
Militia! It is our God-given duty! We are commanded to be his soldiers. It is time to lay aside our 'daily' jobs and return to duty! R&R is over!
To arms, to arms! Where are His soldiers? 

"Right now, where is your squad members? Right now can you honestly state that you are aware of their location and their ability to respond to
duty?" 

Hodges said after Howell died, he reread the column. 

"It gave me an eerie, shaky feeling," Hodges said. 

He said he didn't believe Howell would ever resist arrest. While Howell didn't agree with some gun legislation, he abided by it, Hodges said. 

"I know Darryl wouldn't kill himself and he wouldn't hurt someone else," Hodges said. 

"My personal experience is he was a real giving person." 

10/07/98 Article
Man shot to death at Taft gun shop 
http://www.bakersfield.com/top/i--1304325052.asp




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Pallas Anonymous Remailer 
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 04:29:03 +0800
To: mail2news@basement.replay.com
Subject: The Value of Anonymous Remailers vs. Abuse Complaints and Abusive Comp
Message-ID: <
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



fa161f121ec06c2dd5b366ff7460fb12@anonymous.poster>

>The most frequent request we have been receiving
>so far is, in fact, about the idendity of the
>originator of the anonymous messages.  Some 
>people are being polite, others are not.
>Basically, all the ones who write to abuse@*.*
>want to know the email address of the one who
>has offended/harassed/spammed/blackmailed them.

The idea to get across is that that information is not available.
The snail mail services in various countries allow anonymous mail,
after all, so why should e-mail be any different?  People can
deposit mail in public mailboxes with no return address on the
envelope.  People can call from payphones and not have the call
traceable back to them.  People should also be educated that a From:
address, even when attached, cannot be relied upon for accuracy.  At
least anonymous e-mail lets the recipient know, in advance, that the
sender wishes to conceal his/her true identity.

>That is, it is true that a very significant % of
>all messages which pass thru the mixmaster
>network is just trash.
>
>Comments, anyone?

Even "trash" is valuable as cover traffic to thwart traffic
analysis, especially in the Mixmaster world where packets are
intended to be virtually indistinguishable.  Once remailer-operators
get involved in value judgements as to which anonymous e-mail
transactions have redeeming social value, we have sown the seeds of
censorship.  We empower the Gary Burnores of the world to censor by
intimidation when content neutrality is not maintained.

For example, if a certain signal to noise ratio were to be used as a
criteria for the validity of the remailer net, then a self-destruct
device has just been built into it.  An attacker need only inject
enough noise to exceed the threshold and bring the network down.

Consider the episode last year with Gary Burnore and DataBasix vs.
Jeff Burchell and his Mailmasher and Huge Cajones machines.
Made-to-order abuse appeared right on cue to reinforce the claims
that Burnore and his girlfriend Belinda Bryan had made.  And now
we've learned the real truth behind the whole episode.  While Gary
Burnore was living with another girlfriend in Santa Clara, CA, he
was also molesting her teenaged daughter.  An anonymous
whistleblower attempted to warn the girl's mother as well as her
school officials by anonymous e-mail.  Burnore went ballistic and
falsely claimed "harassment".  But the whistleblower was ultimately
vindicated when Burnore pled guilty to the molestation charge, was
placed on probation, and was required to register as a sex offender.
Unable to silence the whistleblower, Burnore began a campaign of
harassment against the operators of the remailers that were being
used to expose him.  IOW, if you can't refute the message, shoot the
messenger.  And if you can't shoot the messenger, attempt to disable
his means of communication (the remailers net).

I recounted this case history, which can be researched in various
usenet archives by anyone interested, just to demonstrate that one
man's "harassment" can well be another man's investigative
journalism, even if the journalist or whistleblower is not in a
position to expose him/herself to retaliation by the wrongdoer,
which has been (coincidentally?) reported by virtually anyone who
has dared to challenge Gary Burnore publicly.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 04:01:59 +0800
To: users@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (SSZ User Mail List)
Subject: What it's like to get a subpoena (re Toto)
Message-ID: <199810131927.OAA07077@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Hi,

Just thought I'd pass along the latest news in the Toto/Carl Johnson/aka
situation.

I was visited by two nicely mannerd IRS agents this morning. We talked for
about an hour or so about Cypherpunks, CJ, Austin, majordomo, etc. In the
process I was served with a subpoena from the Western District of Washington
to appear on Nov. 18, 1998 at 1:15pm in room 311 of the United States
Courthouse (5th & Madison, Seattle, 98104).

I explained how majordomo works, how to manipulate majordomo to get lists of
subscribers (I used the SSZ subscriber list as an example), and described the
time in July (I believe) when CJ/Toto/aka visited the local meeting. We also
discussed the potential for altering email traffic through a remailer.

I've made it clear I have no problems answering their questions but have no
desire to go to Seattle in Nov. or any other time. They are looking into
whether a deposition given here would be sufficient for their needs. Until
then I'm getting ready for a 2-3 day trip to Seattle in Nov.....

I'm currently trying to decide whether to scan and post the subpoena on the
SSZ webpage.

It's interesting that they requested archives of the list. I explained that
I didn't archive the Cypherpunks or any of my other lists and that other
than minimal configuration issues I don't even archive the OS that runs
einstein (as it takes about 2 hours to rebuild from scratch from CD).

Please don't call or send private email requesting further details. They
didn't ask me to keep any of our discussion confidential but until I better
understand what is going on I'm taking the conservative course (I had a big
fight with myself about whether to even post this).


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 06:21:14 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: RE: DNA
Message-ID: <3623C90E.51D1@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> If we had a DNA sample of all world citizens, then the pesky problem
> of the whole "it was either O.J. that was the killer or there's a one
> in five billion chance it was someone else" would simply disappear.

I'm not a biochemist but I don't think that this is accurate right now.
I think modern DNA analysis yields data that bear more resemblance to a
spectrum than anything else. In this case there is always a good
possibility for error. Remember how large a project the Human Genome
thing is? That is an actual sequencing project.

*****
Rather than use this technology for law enforcement why not really try
to make a Tyrannosaurus? That would seem to be a higher use.
*****

When this new FBI project gets established just watch how wide a net
they cast when defining who will be compelled to submit a sample!

Then we'll have some crooked fuck selling info to the insurance
companies. Or it will be legislated by the other crooked fucks.

And pattern analysis will identify the guilty before they even think
about committing an offense. 

Hell, they'll probably be able to ID the bad ones from samples
coerced/stolen at birth and then all future opportunity and resource
allocation will be effectively decided by the government, inc.

Compromise? If this thing is not implemented with strict controls
defining the type of offenses included then it is as offensive a
totalitarian tool as anything else discussed on this list

Mike

Is there perhaps a good point to getting everybody in the country on
this DNA database? Could it be that a single sample of DNA can be used
to produce a large supply of that DNA which could then be used to
fabricate evidence? You might say that the existence of the fabrication
technology and the availability of seed material invalidates the
evidence.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 06:24:07 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Tracking: F.B.I.'s new national DNA database
Message-ID: <199810132157.OAA09978@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Tracking: F.B.I.'s new national DNA database
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 02:05:53 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  WorldNetDaily
http://www.WorldNetDaily.com/exclusiv/981012_fbis_new_national_d.html

F.B.I.'s new national DNA database 
Secret computer set to open for business 

The FBI is set open a new national DNA data base
tomorrow, The New York Times reports.

The data base, with a new generation of forensic DNA
techniques, is designed to catch repeat offenders, but
civil libertarians fear it will be expanded from people
convicted of crimes to include almost everyone, giving
the government inordinate investigative powers over
citizens. 

The national DNA data base, housed in a secret
location, actually consists of 50 data bases run by the
states but unified by common test procedures and
software designed by the FBI. As of tomorrow, the
Times reports, it will be possible to compare a DNA
sample from a suspect or crime scene in one state with
all others in the system. 

 (c) 1998 Western Journalism Center 
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 06:24:57 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.32: FBI & Privacy Advocates Battling Over Wiretapping
Message-ID: <199810132157.OAA09989@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: "ama-gi ISPI" 
Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.32: FBI & Privacy Advocates Battling Over Wiretapping
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 00:10:29 -0700
To: 

ISPI Clips 5.32: FBI & Privacy Advocates Battling Over Wiretapping
News & Info from the Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI)
Monday October 12, 1998
ISPI4Privacy@ama-gi.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This From: ABCNews.com, October 8, 1998
http://www.abcnews.com

Privacy on the Line
http://www.abcnews.com/sections/tech/DailyNews/wiretap981006.html

Law enforcement and privacy advocates are battling over wiretapping
boundaries in the digital age.

By
Michael Martinez
ABCNEWS.com

The FBI wants to be able to tap your cell phone. And it wants your phone
company to pay for the privilege of allowing the FBI to tap your cell
phone.

    That, at least, is the contention of privacy advocates and of the
telephone industry, which is under federal mandate to open all new
telecommunications technologies to wiretap access. Under the Communications
Assistance to Law Enforcement Act, telecommunications companies are
required provide wiretap capabilities for all of their new systems. Passed
by Congress in 1994, CALEA mandated that telecommunications companies
comply with access requirements by Oct. 25 of this year. That deadline,
however, has been pushed back until June 2000 by the Federal Communications
Commission as it tries to sort out just what the FBI is entitled to, and
how much reimbursement telecom companies should get.

     Originally, CALEA set aside $500 million to pay for infrastructure
upgrades on systems installed prior to Jan. 1, 1995. The United States
Telephone Association and other industry groups want that cutoff point
extended until 2000 as well, so that current systems are covered.


Voice Mail for Dope Dealers?

The telecommunications industry has introduced a wide range of popular -
and profitable - services in recent years, everything from prepaid calling
cards to Internet telephony to three-way calling. Cellular phones have
become nearly ubiquitous, and newer models are almost entirely digital.
Many customers have turned to third party voice-mail systems for message
services. When most of these systems were designed and implemented, no
thought was given to allowing federal or local law enforcement agencies
access.

     The FBI says it's entitled to access these services under current
wiretap laws. Privacy advocates disagree.

     "The FBI has been trying to use CALEA to greatly expand its
surveillance capabilities in ways never anticipated by Congress when it
passed the law," contends Barry Steinhardt, executive director of the
Electronic Frontier Foundation.

     The telephone companies also disagree, at least in principle. More
important, if forced by the government to comply, they want the federal
government to pay for the technology necessary to make it happen.

     The FBI claims that a compromise proposal by the USTA, which
represents local telephone companies, was too narrow, and excluded many of
the technological advances that have made law enforcement's job more
difficult.

     "There have been situations in which we've obtained permission to
wiretap, and we've been frustrated by the technology," says Stephen
Colgate, assistant U.S. attorney general for administration. "And the
criminals know it. Things like voice mail and prepaid calling cards, these
are the things used by the dope dealer or the bomb maker."


The Communications Haystack

The USTA, however, says the FBI is overreaching by including services not
covered by the original law.

     "The rules the FBI put forth in CALEA don't follow the intent of
Congress," says Michelle Tober, communications manager for the USTA. "If
the FBI wants this capability, it has to be granted to them by the FCC or
under a new law by Congress."

     The Electronic Frontier Foundation, along with the American Civil
Liberties Union and the Electronic Privacy Information Center, have
petitioned the FCC to limit law enforcement's ability to gain access to new
telecommunications services.

     "The problem with a wiretap is that it's a general search," Steinhardt
says. "Only one in six conversations that are recorded are criminal in
nature. Increasing law enforcement's powers will mean more conversations
recorded that have no bearing on investigations. We're giving them the
power to find a needle in a haystack."

     The FBI defends its proposed rules, saying that they still fall under
the original law allowing wiretaps, and that privacy will still be
protected by the judiciary system.

     "We still have to go before the judge. We still have to justify the
invasion of privacy in the courts," Colgate says. "We're not lowering the
bar by any means. This industry has been investing significant amounts of
capital into the infrastructure, and we've been losing (wiretap) capability
steadily."

Copyright (c)1998 ABCNEWS and Starwave Corporation.


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 06:25:30 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Tracking: NYT on FBI's Nat'l DNA Database
Message-ID: <199810132157.OAA10000@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Tracking: NYT on FBI's Nat'l DNA Database
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 03:10:00 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  New York Times
http://www.nytimes.com/yr/mo/day/news/national/dna-data-base.html

October 12, 1998

F.B.I. Set to Begin Using National DNA Database

By NICHOLAS WADE

In a computer at a secret location, the FBI will open a national
DNA database on Tuesday that advocates say could significantly
reduce rape and other crimes by helping to catch repeat offenders earlier.

The data base, with a new generation of forensic DNA techniques,
promises to be so efficient that some civil libertarians fear it will be
expanded from people convicted of crimes to include almost everyone,
giving the government inordinate investigative powers over citizens. 

The national DNA data base consists of 50 data bases run by the states
but unified by common test procedures and software designed by the
FBI. As of Tuesday, it will be possible to compare a DNA sample from
a suspect or crime scene in one state with all others in the system. 

The national data base has been nearly a decade in the making. The final
pieces fell into place in June when Rhode Island became the last state to
set up a DNA data base. 

But the system still faces many unresolved issues, which are likely to play
out according to the reaction from the public and the courts. One such
issue is what types of offenders should be included. Another is whether
the mass screening of suspects' DNA will prove constitutional. 

DNA, the chemical that embodies a person's genetic programming, can
be found almost everywhere. People shed a constant torrent of dead skin
cells. Criminals leave blood when breaking and entering; they shed hair
and skin cells in fights, deposit saliva on glasses and leave sweat stains in
head bands. From only a few cells in such sources, enough DNA can be
extracted to identify the owner. A DNA database of sufficient size could
presumably help solve many crimes. 

The crime-fighting potential of DNA data bases is becoming evident from
the experiences of Britain, which started earlier and has had fewer
administrative and constitutional hurdles to overcome. The data base
there initially focused on sex offenses but has spread to include burglaries
and car theft because of the high number of DNA matches that police
forces were obtaining. Moreover, there was considerable crossover at
least in Britain, among different kinds of offenses. 

"People who commit serious crime very often have convictions for petty
crime in their history, so if you could get them on the data base early you
may prevent serious crime," said David Werrett, manager of the DNA
data base for England and Wales. 

The English DNA data base includes entries from crime scenes and from
everyone convicted of a crime, as well as from suspects in unresolved
cases. Since the system's debut in 1995, it has matched 28,000 people
to crime scenes and has made 6,000 links between crime scenes. The
data base now holds 360,000 entries and Werrett said he expected it
would eventually include one third of all English men between 16 and 30,
the principal ages for committing crimes. 

Werrett said that the data base has grown because police forces in
England, which pay $55 for a DNA analysis, are finding it cost effective.
Recently the Police Superintendents Association called for the entire
population to be DNA tested. 

Forensic use of DNA in the United States is unlikely to go as fast or as
far as in Britain. 

"Their system makes a tremendous amount of sense the way they
approach it, but in the United States we have a different perspective on
privacy and on the extent to which we would be willing to depend on a
data base," said Christopher Asplen, executive director of the national
Commission on the Future of DNA Evidence. 

One major privacy safeguard in the FBI's system is that only a minute
fraction of a person's genetic endowment becomes part of the data base.
Under a new DNA profiling system known as STR's, for short tandem
repeats, a person's DNA is tested at 13 specific sites at which a short
length of DNA is repeated in a kind of stutter. The number of repeats is
highly variable from one person to another, so that measuring the number
of repeats at the 13 designated sites gives a way of identifying each
individual with a probability of one in several billion. 

The blood or other samples donated by individuals are retained by the
states in collections known as DNA banks. All that goes into the
computerized DNA data bases is the set of 13 numbers from the STR
measurements. Only identifying information, and nothing about a person's
health or appearance, can be divined from the STR's. 

Access to the DNA data base is permitted only for law enforcement
purposes, with a $100,000 fine for unauthorized disclosures. No known
breaches of the system have occurred. 

One major unresolved issue is that of the types of offenders from whom
DNA profiles should be taken. All states require people convicted of
serious sexual offenses to donate blood samples, but differ on requiring
samples from other groups such as people convicted of violent felonies,
juvenile offenders and parolees. 

Four states -- Virginia, Wyoming, New Mexico and Alabama -- require
all people convicted of a felony to provide samples for DNA profiling.
Louisiana allows DNA to be taken from people merely arrested in a
crime, a practice that has not been tested in the courts. 

State laws establishing DNA data bases have been challenged in 13
jurisdictions and have been upheld in all but one, in Massachusetts. Some
states have revised their original legislation to add offenses. 

"I think the trend is that 10 years from now all felonies will be covered,"
said M. Dawn Herkenham, chief of the FBI's Forensic Science Systems
Unit in Washington. "We recommend that all violent felonies, burglaries,
juveniles and retroactivity for people on parole be included." 

>From his office in Birmingham, England, last week, Werrett said, "Today
we have issued matches on three murders, five rapes, nine serious
robberies, two abductions and two violent burglaries." 

No state DNA data base has acquired the critical mass to furnish such a
hit rate. Many state laboratories are understaffed and have large
backlogs of DNA samples to analyze. The backlogs are particularly
worrisome in the case of rapes where specimens may lie unanalyzed
while the rapist assaults more victims. "People may be appalled to know
how many rape suspect kits are out there untouched," Ms. Herkenham of
the FBI said. 

"The hit ratio depends on whether we can go back and examine all the
evidence that comes in the door," said Dr. Barry Duceman, director of
biological science in the New York State Police Forensic Investigation
Center in Albany. "We are trying to address a crushing case backlog and
to get the technology on line -- you'd be hard pressed to say we are
overstaffed." 

The case backlog problem is compounded because state laboratories are
switching to the STR method of DNA profiling from an older method of
analysis called RFLP (for restriction fragment length polymorphism). All
the samples analyzed by RFLP must be redone by STR if they are to be
searchable in the new data base. 

When these teething problems are overcome, many experts believe that
the state and national DNA data base systems may have a significant
effect, particularly in reducing crimes like rape that often involve repeat
offenders. By scoring a "cold hit" between crime scene data and a
person, DNA data bases can be particularly effective in solving cases
with no suspects. 

"Once we get that infrastructure in place and start getting those hits, the
benefits will lead to higher utilization," Asplen said. 

But like other experts involved with DNA testing, he expressed concern
that DNA profiling be developed in a publicly acceptable way. "The
public does need to have a trust level with this and be assured that law
enforcement is not going to abuse this powerful tool," he said. One
practice likely to raise eyebrows, if not hackles, is mass screening, which
is widely used in the United Kingdom but not yet commonplace here. 

In high profile crime cases, police in Britain often ask, and can require, all
members of a town or building to give DNA samples so as to prove
themselves guiltless and help narrow the search for the culprit. The
National Commission on the Future of DNA Testing is examining under
what circumstances the donation of samples can be considered voluntary.
In an office, where employees who declined to donate a sample might be
fired, a police request for DNA might be coercive. 

A future use of DNA testing is that of phenotypic analysis. It will soon be
technically possible to infer from the genes in a person's DNA many
probable aspects of their appearance, such as hair, skin and eye color.
Werrett said the main problem with such predictions would lie in training
police to understand their probabilistic nature: told there is a 90 percent
chance that the suspect has red hair, investigators should not ignore the
10 percent chance that he does not. 

DNA reveals so much about a person that behavioral geneticists might
wish to search through state data banks for genetic variants linked to
criminal behavior. Most states say their DNA data banks can be
accessed only for law enforcement purposes, like the data bases. But
Alabama authorizes the use of its samples for "educational research or
medical research or development," an apparent invitation to genetic
inquiry. 

An impending issue is whether states should retain their DNA samples
once the information has been entered into the DNA data base. Forensic
managers like to retain samples as a hedge against changing technology.
Others say the DNA sample banks create an opportunity for abuse, and
that if there is another change in technology the government should just
rebuild its data base from scratch. 

Because DNA can be found at so many crime scenes, DNA data bases
promise to be powerful aids in catching criminals. But what thrills forensic
experts tends to chill civil libertarians. 

"The DNA data base started out with pariahs -- the sex offenders -- but
has already been enlarged to include other felons and will probably be
extended to include everyone, giving elites the power to control 'unruly'
citizens," said Philip Bereano a professor of technology and public policy
at the University of Washington in Seattle. 

Dr. Eric Juengst, a bioethicist at Case Western Reserve University in
Cleveland and a member of the FBI's DNA Advisory Board, said the
original policy in setting up the DNA data base was that it was "suitable
only for our most serious category of criminals," and that it would be a
breach of that policy to expand its scope. 

The risks raised by Bereano are worth watching, Juengst said, "but as a
society we have to learn how to control powerful tools of all kinds, like
nuclear power. I don't see it as an endless slippery slope." 

 Copyright 1998 The New York Times Company
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 06:40:56 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: FBI Intentionally Obstructing Justice: TWA800
Message-ID: <199810132157.OAA10011@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: FBI Intentionally Obstructing Justice: TWA800
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 11:25:58 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  The Winds
http://www.TheWinds.org/

TWA FLIGHT 800 ANALYSTS SAY FBI IS INTENTIONALLY OBSTRUCTING JUSTICE

"I will probably never watch national
 television news again, and take it at
 face value for the rest of my life." -- Comdr.
 William S. Donaldson

The FBI and the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB)
intentionally lied to Congress and the public concerning key evidence about
the
downing of Trans World Airlines Flight 800. So indicates recent evidence
brought to light in a tape-recorded conversation with James Kalstrom, the FBI
Special Agent in charge of the disaster investigation.

On that tape, obtained by Accuracy In Media (AIM) Chairman Reed
Irvine, Special Agent Kalstrom is allegedly heard to admit that U.S. Naval
vessels were present in the immediate area where, on July 17, 1996, TWA
Flight 800 was blown out of the sky along with its 230 passengers and crew.
Previously, the federal agencies contended publicly and in testimony before
Congress that the closest military asset other than an unarmed navy
aircraft, a
P-3 Orion, was the USS Normandy, 185 miles away. However, speaking on
condition of anonymity, a reliable source confirmed to The WINDS that the
claims Irvine is making as to the contents of the tape are indeed accurate.

In the recording, the details of which were disclosed privately to a meeting
of Washington's Judicial Watch, Irvine alleges that Agent Kalstrom is clearly
heard to confirm that there were in fact three U.S. Navy vessels within
three to
six nautical miles of the crash site. These ships, according to Kalstrom, were
on a highly classified mission. This information is enormously important
because it greatly strengthens the already formidable position of those
claiming
that a missile strike was responsible for the Flight 800 disaster.

Commander William S. Donaldson, USN Ret., a longtime thorn in the side
of the federal agencies investigating Flight 800, informed The WINDS that he
also has personally heard, and has a copy of, the aforementioned tape
recording. He quotes Special Agent Kalstrom as saying, in reference to
mysterious unnamed radar surface targets the FBI refused to identify, "We
know what they were...they were navy ships on classified maneuvers."

Of the two factions hotly advocating the facts indicating a missile strike,
one
believes it was an errant U.S. Navy anti-aircraft missile launched from those
very ships the FBI and NTSB claims were not present. The other position of
the pro-missile group asserts that the ships were present because the navy
knew that there was a threat of terrorist activity in the area and failed
in an
attempt to intercept the terrorists and thwart the destruction of the
airliner. This
is seemingly corroborated by eyewitnesses who claim to have observed a
previous attempt that failed, only because the vessel launching the
missiles was
too far offshore and out of range. Attempts to locate the craft bearing the
terrorists and their portable missiles were apparently the reason for the
"classified" naval presence in the area. It would also explain the presence
of the
P-3 Orion which is technically a navy sub-chaser but, according to Comdr.
Donaldson, can be used as a reconnaissance platform with its forward-looking
infrared (FLIR) optics and radar.

Comdr. Donaldson claims to also have obtained testimony from several
witnesses, one of whom "is an ex-Navy Bombardier/navigator aboard A6
Intruders, who observed an Aegis Cruiser to the west of the air disaster." An
Aegis is a highly sophisticated Virginia Class guided missile cruiser with
radar
and electronic counter measures (ECM) that would be immensely suitable in
searching for and neutralizing a seaborne terrorist threat.

Because of the highly trained nature of men such as the A6
bombardier/navigator, Donaldson, in his words, considers the identification of
the Aegis Cruiser to be "positive, with 100% credibility."

Interestingly, the USS Normandy, the one warship the navy admits was 185
miles away, is also an Aegis Guided Missile Cruiser of the Ticonderoga Class,
stationed out of Norfolk, Virginia, less than 300 nautical miles away--an easy
and quick journey for the nuclear-powered cruiser.

Either the former A6 crewman has extraordinarily good over-the-horizon
eyesight, or the Normandy (or another Aegis Cruiser) was much nearer the
scene than the navy and FBI are willing to admit.

Much to the dismay and irritation of federal authorities from both the FBI
and the NTSB, the specter of TWA Flight 800 simply will not go away.
Special Agent Kalstrom went on record as angrily denouncing those
responsible for perpetuating American consciousness of the tragedy--and who
disagree with their official position of cause for the disaster: an
internally ignited
center wing fuel tank. Kalstrom is also quoted in Salon Magazineas
arrogantly admonishing that "these people should get a life." [1]

In that article entitled, "The Buffoon Brigade," Salonrefers to those
opposing the government's declaration as to the cause of the crash as a
"motley army".

That "motley army"--the one advised by Special Agent Kalstrom to pursue
a worthwhile existence--is composed of such as:

 Pierre Salinger: 
once Press Secretary to President John F. Kennedy 
former ABC News commentator 

 Admiral Thomas H. Moorer, USN, Retired: 

Former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, arguably the most
powerful visible position in America outside the presidency (with
the possible exception of Federal Reserve Chairman) 

 Commander William S. Donaldson, USN Retired: 
Former Navy combat pilot 
89 combat missions over Viet Nam 
Several years as a highly trained aviation accident investigator
and team leader in a dozen or more military crash investigations 

 Richard Russell: 
Former 747 pilot for United Airlines 
Over 26 years experience with the Airline Pilots Association
investigating commercial aviation accidents serving as the Air
Safety Representative for the agency 

 Former U.S. Army Major Fredrick Meyer: 
Army combat helicopter pilot 
Extensive combat extraction experience in Viet Nam with
firsthand witness of thousands of detonations of military
explosives ordinance 
Currently an attorney and Air National Guard helicopter pilot 
First person on the scene of the Flight 800 incident after he and
his copilot witnessed from their ANG helicopter what he says he
would "swear to God, was [exploding] military ordinance"
bringing down the TWA jet.[2] 

"Motley army"? Could it be surmised that many on Salon Magazine's 
staff--and the FBI--would kill (metaphorically speaking) to obtain such a life
as have those men--that is, if intellect and integrity are any longer deciding
factors in the definition of "a life".

With the exception of Fredrick Meyer, who The WINDS has already
interviewed extensively for previous articles on Flight 800, and Adm. Moorer,
this agency spoke at length with each of the aforementioned individuals.

"IT IS VERY CLEAR IT WAS A NAVAL MISSILE"

Pierre Salinger has informed this agency that he is in possession of what he
refers to as "new information that makes it very, very clear it's a naval
missile
[that brought down Flight 800]....and very hot information about the number of
naval ships that were in that area--much more than anybody thought." He said
he was unable, at this time, to share details of that information with The
WINDS, but directed this office to a source which would. The information Mr.
Salinger alluded to, it turns out, is the same as what was revealed on the
aforementioned AIM tape recording.

Mr. Salinger has been the target of innumerable attacks by the media and
the U.S. Government for the position he has taken on the Flight 800 disaster.
"I've been so attacked by the press and everybody else," Salinger told The
WINDS, that he said he would not speak publicly on the TWA matter "until
the government comes out with what they claim to be a solution. If what they
say is something that we do not believe, then I'm definitely going to start
speaking." 

Interestingly, Salinger, and the unofficial truth about the downing of the
TWA jet, are taken quite seriously outside the United States media. In a
previous article, for example, The WINDS quoted The Times of London,a
newspaper of no small reputation, as reporting that "satellite images have
proved FLT 800 was tracked and hit by a sophisticated missile. 'An American
spy satellite positioned over the Brookhaven National Laboratory on Long
Island is said to have yielded important information about the crash. A law
enforcement official told The New York Postthat the satellite pictures show
an object racing up to the TWA jet...and smashing into it.'"

"There was extraordinary information that was being dug up by other news
organizations that was blocked and never ever went to the press," James
Sanders, author of The Downing of TWA 800told this office, "and yet the
most moronic government statement would go to the head of the line in each
and every case."

According to current knowledge there is, it seems, as much firsthand
corroboration that the aircraft was downed by an errant or intentionally
launched missile as there is for the fact that Americans have landed on the
moon. Yet, the obfuscation in which the FBI, NTSB and other federal
agencies are engaged seems to effectively blot that fact from their conscious
thinking.

"That's something very weird," Salinger said, "because at that time, as a
matter of fact, at the top of [Agent] Kalstrom's list was the missile
theory. So
why," Salinger asked, "was he attacking me when I said it was a missile? The
reason he did is that I was talking about a naval missile--that's why. He
himself
was thinking at that time that it was a missile," Mr. Salinger continued. "And
you know there were 350 witnesses that saw the missiles."

When asked if he thought that the media assault on him was orchestrated by
the government he replied, "I don't have any actual facts but I have had
people
tell me that it resulted because the FBI was in touch with the media."

Of the two positions previously mentioned as to the origin of the missiles
that destroyed Flight 800 in the eastern sky that July evening, the one headed
by Comdr. Donaldson holds that the missiles were SA6 SAMs (surface-to-air
missiles) of Soviet origin, launched by terrorists. The other view,
espoused by
Pierre Salinger and James Sanders, et. al., is that the missiles were errantly
fired by the U.S. Navy ships in the vicinity. There is, however, no dissension
between the camps on the fact that irrefutable data points to some manner of
anti-aircraft missile ordinance, whatever its origin, as the source of the
tragedy
and definitely away from the absurdities of, as Sanders puts it, "moronic
government statements".

In his interview with The WINDS Mr. Sanders, expressing his frank
admiration for the former Navy Commander, admitted, "I really didn't have the
ability to get at the things that Donaldson has gotten at." Comdr. Donaldson's
chief logical argument against a failed navy missile test comes from his many
years experience with naval operations. He claims that the navy would never
test fire a missile off the U.S. coast with the capability, should it
malfunction, of
reaching land.

The fact that it is now apparently confirmed that there were, indeed, naval
warships in the near vicinity of the Flight 800 downing should cause
critics to
look more closely at the facts and compare them with what is becoming even
more confused and bewildered government explanations of the incident. But
will this new evidence of a government cover-up make any difference as to
whether the truth will be heard and accepted? This is the haunting question
that
pursues those who are perhaps getting their first real experience into the
power
that the New World Order exercises over information flow.

Their power for creating media stupefaction was vividly presented in the
opening paragraph of a recent Village Voice?article. "In January more than
twenty-five reporters attended the Washington, D.C. press conference,"
Voicecorrespondent Robert Davey reported in July, "--virtually a military
briefing that for all the actual media coverage it received might as well have
been labeled Top Secret. At the widely ignored event retired Navy pilot
Commander William S. Donaldson and former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of
Staff Admiral Thomas H. Moorer announced that evidence existed to suggest
that a surface-to-air missile brought down TWA Flight 800."

Davey shared, on the syndicated Mike Jarmus radio talk show, that he had
first become interested in the TWA Flight 800 affair "in Christmas of '96
after
Pierre Salinger came out with his charges," he said. "And it struck me as
interesting the way he was greeted with such hostility and so disparaged in
the
media." 

 AS AIRTIGHT AS IT GETS: Commander William
Donaldson pulls the flowers out of the FBI's garden. 

In a stinging letter to FBI Director Louis Freeh, Comdr. Donaldson presents
a most cogent and concise assembly of facts, decimating the government's
position on the cause of the tragedy.

In that document, a copy of which Comdr. Donaldson submitted to The
WINDS, he begins:

 "Considering your New York office's recent abandonment of its
 law enforcement responsibilities, let me refresh your memory and
 provide the following reality check:

 FACTS

In the entire history of American turbine powered civilian
air transport, there has never been an in-flight fuel tank
explosion in any aircraft caused by mechanical failure!
(Laws of probability do not support the NTSB theory). 
Jet A-1 fuel used by FL800 is safer than all its
predecessors. It cannot be made to explode in-flight unless
the tank is first exposed to shock (chemical properties of
the fuel do not support the NTSB theory)." 

Commander Donaldson informed The WINDS of an experiment he had
conducted for Fox Television News and other news organizations in which he
demonstrated by the use of Jet A-1 fuel in a tank at the same vapor
concentration that would have been present in Flight 800's center wing tank
that it could not have exploded as the federal authorities contend. None of
the
footage, Donaldson said, ever made it on the air.

Donaldson continues:

The fuel temperature in TWA 800's center wing tank
(CWT) was well below minimum flammability much less at
explosive vapor temperatures. (Environmental conditions
do not support the NTSB theory). 

There is no source of ignition in the B747 CWT (aircraft
design does not support the NTSB theory). 

Conventionally designed aircraft cannot fly much less
generate lift to climb absent the gross tonnage of fuselage
forward of the wing. (Laws of physical science and
principles of aerodynamics do not support the NTSB
theory). 

The twelve or more explosive chemical residue hits by
BATF's EGIS 3000 equipment are physical evidence of
high explosive involvement. (Leading edge hi-tech forensic
evidence does not support the NTSB theory). 

Testimony from eyewitnesses along eleven nautical miles of
shore front show first sightings of ascending objects that
cross correlate to a launch position well away from
FL800's track. (Eyewitness testimony does not support
the NTSB theory). 

The medical examiners' report shows a uniform
instantaneous cause of death and evidence of high velocity
metal in the cabin. (Post mortem examinations do not
support the NTSB theory). 

The debris field shows that TWA FL800's nose forward
of the wing was shattered after being hit from the left by a
huge force that distributed the gross tonnage as much as
2900 ft. right of the projected aircraft track. (Debris field
evidence does not support the NTSB theory). 

Comdr. Donaldson's letter to Director Freeh continues in considerably more
technical detail with each point followed by the parenthetical summation
ending
with "(...does not support the NTSB theory)."

Other points including those summations are: 

(Ballistic geometry does not support the NTSB theory). 

(The historical record of airframe damage during in-flight
center wing tank explosions does not support the NTSB
theory). 

The forward cabin debris shows through-holes from left
side to right side [those that would have been made by a
high-speed object such as a missile passing through the
747's fuselage]. (The forward cabin debris does not
support the NTSB theory). 

The debris field shows initial cabin integrity was lost, 16
feet forward of the center wing tank at FS800, forward
left hand cargo bay. (The cabin break-up sequence does
not support the NTSB theory). 

Comdr. Donaldson then concludes his list of details, with which he is at
odds with federal authorities, with the pointed comment:

 The FBI has withdrawn before the cause has been determined.
 (The FBI does support the NTSB theory). Why?

Under the heading: "Collusion with NTSB Goals, Suppression of
Eyewitness Evidence" Donaldson continues to flay the FBI director with his
eminently logical analysis of the incident.

 Mr. Freeh I will be candid, the fact that the FBI is now joining in
 lockstep with the NTSB political script sadly was not a surprise
 to me, because of what I had discovered on Long Island. 

 Mr. Kalstrom's agents who 'who turned over every rock ten
 times' failed to tape critical eyewitness testimony, failed to
 establish visual bearing lines from the witnesses who observed
 ascending objects, failed to get elevation measurements, failed to
 get relative motion statements and in some cases failed to even go
 to the observation point, that is except from some eyewitnesses
 who didn't see the missile!...

 Multiple witnesses tell me agents on rare second or third visits to
 persons who saw ascending objects tried to get the witnesses to
 change their original stories? Many of these people are now
 afraid of and disgusted with their own government, the
 administrative mantra "no evidence of criminal act" is turning
 normal American citizens into bitter cynics."

Referring to the FBI's tightly choreographed control and feed of the media
Comdr. Donaldson seems to have no other recourse than to resort to sarcastic
humor in making his point on the ridiculous show produced for public
consumption.

"It was entertaining," Donaldson told Director Freeh, referring to the CIA's
14-minute animated video on the disaster, "but like most cartoons [it] grossly
abused universal laws of nature. Like: Newton's law of gravitation, Newton's
first and second law of dynamics, Newton's' law of hydro-dynamic resistance
and fundamental principles of aerodynamic lift, drag, dynamic stability and
jet
engine mechanics. Other than that," Donaldson cynically observes, "it was a
media masterpiece....Perfect junk science fluff for television."

The former navy commander continues to thoroughly wrap the
extraordinarily flawed FBI investigation in his Gordian Knot of logic as he,
point-by-point, encases the agency and the NTSB within a web of seemingly
inescapable logic. At one point he berates Freeh's organization by telling him
that if his "people had continued the commendable job the county police
started and actually developed witnesses who observed ascending objects, as
they [the county police] were doing, you would have provided the CIA with
data showing the object was moving three times faster than a 747 and was first
sighted close to shore."

Donaldson calls the CIA's "cartoon" a "most outlandish abridgment of
testimony and obstruction of justice" referring to the "amateurish
depiction of
sound analysis which claims that only the sound of the aircraft was actually
heard during the disaster. This, Comdr. Donaldson claims, fails "to consider
the number of explosions heard by witnesses."

Responding to the bizarre assumption that a noseless 747 could continue to
climb another 3,000 feet when it was already just above stalling speed, the
former U.S. Naval aviator asks rhetorically, "why doesn't the New York office
just have the cartoon changed and get the 747 to zoom climb to 30,000
feet...[?] After all, the cartoon's pilotless 747 [pilotless because the nose
section of the fuselage containing the pilots had been sheared off] is
already the
current record holder in the zoom climb category."

To this contention by the FBI and NTSB that the aircraft continued to climb
for another 3,000 feet after losing nearly everything forward of the leading
edge of the wings, the Pensacola News Journalcites Donaldson as saying,
"The final readings show chaos in the sky - with airspeed dropping
instantly by
almost 200 knots, the pitch angle jumping five degrees, altitude DROPPING
3,600 feet in about three seconds, the roll angle going from zero to 144
degrees (the airplane almost inverted), and the magnetic heading changing from
82 degrees [just North of due East] to 163 degrees [just East of due
South]."[emphasis supplied]. By Donaldson's account it appears that only if
one were
standing on their head while evaluating the data, could it have been
misconstrued as the aircraft CLIMBING 3,000 feet.

"'There couldn't have been an aviator at CIA who had anything to do with
that,' Donaldson said, 'They were laughed out of town by pilots.'" [ibid.]

"They [the CIA] failed to address the two 'bright', 'hard', 'high velocity',
'ordinance"' explosions three seconds apart, in addition to the large
petroleum
[fuel] explosion agreed to by witnesses airborne, on land and sea."

Donaldson continues by explaining in detail how the linear scattering of the
747's debris is impossible to explain by any other theory than a high velocity
inertial and explosive impact crossing the aircraft's flight path.

As mentioned before, Comdr. Donaldson's logic seems inescapable and has
not been intelligently refuted in any government press release or document The
WINDS has been able to obtain. With his particularly blunt humor the former
naval officer, under the subheading, "The Train Wreck at 13,700 Feet" makes
the assertion:

 From a physics point of view, TWA FL800, at the time of the
 incident, represented a force of about 465 million foot pounds of
 inertia oriented on a vector of 071 [degrees] at 13,700 ft.

 In order to deflect the gross tonnage of debris to the positions
 found in the field, much of it thousands of feet right of course,
 either the aircraft was hit by an Amtrak metro-liner on the left
 side or by a powerful anti-aircraft weapon.

 Much of the forward fuselage debris is strung out on a
 160-degree axis which closely matches observed eyewitness
 missile intercept angles as well as known fuselage through-holes.

 Because the wind was very light and almost on the tail, the
 maximum windage offset of falling metal debris would be
 approximately an additional 200 ft. downrange. The same offset
 would be nearly universal throughout the field on similar heavy
 debris, but proportionally further for light debris.

 This massive deflection of tons of debris to the right...are absolute
 and irrefutable physical evidence of a massive blow to the
 forward fuselage from the left side.

Comdr. Donaldson then proceeds to confront the FBI director with even
more serious charges. Under the heading of "Obstruction of Justice by
Political
Intercept" Donaldson charges, 

 Mr. Freeh, I am keenly aware of the justice department's
 suppression of the EGIS 3000 high explosive residue evidence
 gathered by BATF. Having consulted with both the equipment
 manufacturer and independent high explosive experts, the picture
 is clear.

Donaldson then explains for Director Freeh that the EGIS 3000, the most
advanced and sensitive state-of-the-art chemical analysis instrument currently
in existence, determined in no less than twelve instances that residue from
the
high explosive PETN was present on parts of the aircraft's wreckage. PETN is
an explosive used in, among other applications, the detonation of
plutonium-based nuclear weapons, as well as some commercial employment.

The flight data recorder apparently presents another critical piece of
evidence pointing to a cover-up. According to a report published by the
Pensacola News Journalin January of this year the NTSB is said to have
explained why the transcript of the last five seconds of Flight 800's data
recorder was cut. They claimed it was a leftover segment from a previous
flight. "'The only reason you put flight data recorders into an airplane at
millions
of dollars' cost,'" the newspaper quotes Commander Donaldson as saying, "'is
to capture this last data line.'"[3]

The explanation given by the NTSB is that the last five seconds were left
over from a preceding flight. The paper quotes TWA pilot Howard Mann as
saying, "not possible - it's erased - there's just no way." [ibid.]

 RADAR TAPE AUTHENTIC - - FBI FRANTIC

Richard Russell, former 747 pilot for United Airlines with twenty-six years
experience in airline accident investigation with the Airline Pilots
Association,
obtained another crucial piece of evidence in the damning mosaic that
describes the last moments of the life of Trans World Airlines Flight 800 and
its occupants. Through undisclosed sources Mr. Russell came into possession
of a copy of the FAA radar video tape of the sky from which the ill-fated jet
fell.

When the FBI discovered that he had it, Russell told The WINDS, they
immediately confiscated it.

"After obtaining a copy of the tape," Russell said, "I studied it--I've worked
with air traffic control problems for years and years and I know what's on
that
tape. I can read it. What was on that tape," he asserts, "was not an
electronic
glitch. This was an unidentified rogue target going some place in a big
hurry--not a ghost target. But it is a definite rogue target that appears
for four
sweeps and then disappears."

A rogue target, Russell explained, differs from a ghost in that the rogue is
very real--just unidentified-- whereas a ghost target is a glitch, an
electronic
artifact that doesn't exist in real life.

"The interesting part about this," Russell added, "is that this target
appeared
just seconds before TWA 800 blows up. The speed of the target during those
four sweeps indicates something that was traveling very fast. They have never
talked about it," Russell elaborates. "They still will not talk about it.
Several
controllers, I'm not sure how many, actually reported that it was a missile."

When The WINDS asked Mr. Russell if he had been able to extrapolate
the speed of the object from the radar images, he declined to share that
data at
this time. He merely stated that "it's faster than any jets that we have
presently
operating except for the Concord, and this was not a Concord."

Russell then makes what, under normal circumstances, would seem an
incredible allegation. Concerning those controllers who claimed they saw a
radar missile track arcing toward Flight 800, "James Hall, the NTSB chairman,
told Barry Valentine--at that time acting head of the FAA--to obtain signed
statements from all the controllers that they were mistaken as to what they
saw. Barry Valentine, as far as I'm concerned, was the only guy in the FAA
who had any guts. He said, 'I won't do it.' None of them signed the statement
and, apparently because of that, Barry Valentine was involuntarily retired."

Author James Sanders is another who has felt the intense displeasure of the
government for his activities in exposing the cover-up of what has become the
most investigated air disaster in history.

Sanders is currently under indictment for receiving stolen wreckage of Flight
800.[4] He is accused of asking a TWA pilot, Terrell Stacey, to obtain
parts of
the aircraft including a piece of seat material from the Flight 800 wreckage,
even though the "hanger man", as Sanders refers to him in his book, testified
that he provided Sanders with the material "of his own volition"--without
being
asked. The government is proceeding with its prosecution of Sanders and his
wife, even in the face of federal case law that gives journalists the right to
request such services.

An interesting study in paradoxical hypocrisy is that Special Agent
Kalstrom, himself, took pieces of the aircraft as souvenirs for certain
people,
according to Sanders, Donaldson and other sources. This was done about ten
days after the incident, Sanders says, which was before anyone knew what
potential investigation value any debris pieces might have. Yet, Kalstrom
suffers no legal problems from his action even though the law, Sanders claims,
clearly defines the act of retrieving such material for souvenir purposes
to be
illegal--while, at the same time, defining Sanders' actions as permissible for
journalists.

"Both my wife and I were in hiding from the FBI and she was under
psychiatric care," Sanders told The WINDS.

Part of what caused the government to go after Sanders and his wife,
Elizabeth, was his insistence that the clearly visible reddish stain that
contaminated row 14 of the TWA jet was, in reality, rocket fuel residue.
Sanders claims that the federal agencies are afraid to do an analysis of the
substance.

"I have a legally tape-recorded conversation with a government official, Dr.
Merrit Burgee," Sanders claims, "who was the senior scientist for the NTSB in
Calverton Hanger [where Flight 800 wreckage is stored]. I have him on tape
admitting that they never intended to find out if my residue was from a
missile
or not. On that tape," the author explains, the chemist "very clearly says
that
several times, and then he gives the very telling statement that 'Boy, if
we had
analyzed it and it came out wrong, then what do we do? We could never put
this thing to bed.'"

The FBI claimed, in March of last year, that the residue was glue. However,
Sanders claims that Charles W. Bassett [the chemist in charge of Flight 800
chemical analysis] agreed to him with a notarized affidavit concluding
"absolutely that the residue the FBI and NTSB were calling glue most certainly
was not."

Sanders claims many witnesses have seen the plain reddish trail left on the
aircraft's seats as something passed through the cabin forward of the
wings. He
also contends that all of the foam rubber from the backs of those seats
that had
the red stains had been mysteriously and purposely stripped away, but none
had ever been submitted for chemical analysis.

Interestingly, Comdr. Donaldson has suffered no harassment whatever for
his most active role in shining the spotlight on government blunders and
cover-ups. This is something he attributes to his extensive, unimpeachable
military record. Because of the multiple references and relationships he
maintains with fleet admirals and CINCPAC (Commander in Chief of Naval
Operations, Pacific) the "footprint" he lays down under that umbrella of
credibility is formidable enough that federal authorities apparently dare
not do
more than just wish he would go away. Others, such as Pierre Salinger and
James and Elizabeth Sanders, have not been so fortunate.

Richard Russell has had his share of government and media aggravation. He
told The WINDS that the FBI made multiple visits to his home attempting to
determine how he obtained that FAA radar tape--the same one they first
claimed was bogus; then admitted it was genuine.

Mr. Russell went on to make some very ominous statements in relation to
the strange manner in which the accident investigation was carried on.

When, according to Russell, the Airline Pilots Association representative,
whose name he declined to disclose, arrived on the scene of the Flight 800
crash, "he was greeted by 500 police officers, several hundred FBI agents and
twenty-three CIA agents."

"He went to the head APA official and asked, 'What the hell is going on
here?' The official said, 'I wondered how long it would take you to figure
this
out.'"

"Normally," Russell continued, "investigators will take their clipboards and
cameras out and record the scene. When any of the investigators attempted to
photograph the area the FBI would forbid it." The APA investigator told
Russell that there were as many as two to six agents shadowing every
investigator, watching every move they made. If one would closely examine a
piece of metal, for instance, and lay it down, it would disappear when the
investigator was not present.

"He also told me that if you would pick up a fragment and call another
investigator over to look at it with obvious interest, an FBI agent would come
over and take it out of your hands and you would never see it again.

"This information comes from somebody on the inside and I cannot reveal
their names to you, but this is what went on there."

Russell said he first got interested in the disaster when the Defense
Department got involved at the outset. "Why is the Pentagon making an
announcement of a civil airplane disaster?" Russell asked himself. "I couldn't
believe that."

"The second thing that occurred to me," Mr. Russell shared, "was why is the
military involving themselves in this immediately? Generally speaking, the
military is brought into an accident investigation only after the civil
authorities
are unable to do the job."

The NTSB is the chief authority in investigating aircraft accidents-- even
above the FBI which, to Russell, made a strange scenario even stranger. "The
night of the disaster the navy provided a DC-9 in Washington and loaded up
the FBI and the navy people--and even though there were seats available, they
would not allow the NTSB Go-Team to ride with them. They had to wait until
the next day. By that time the FBI had taken over and never relinquished
control.

"The most important data is the eyewitness reports. And they would not
even allow them to be interviewed by the NTSB people--only the FBI who
are not qualified to investigate accidents. But in this case they just
blundered
through with brute force and kept everyone at bay."

Any application of normal logic would clearly seem to indicate that this type
of activity portends far more than the government merely covering up the fact
of an errant missile strike.

Another observation can be made concerning the government's attempt to
conceal the truth from the American people and the world at large. Whenever
subterfuge is engaged and the government--or anyone for that
matter--contrives to deceive and cover up essential truth, a reaction takes
place where the truth appears to take on a life of its own. It will not be
buried
or obscured and the more one attempts to do so, the louder and more
obnoxious the truth becomes until, like Poe's "The Tell-Tale Heart," the truth
just keeps beating louder until it must be acknowledged and its opponents
appear insane.

 For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any
 thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad.--Luke 8:17



 REFERENCES:

 1.Salon Magazine,March 26, 1997.
 2.Pensacola News Journal, January 9, 1998.
 3.[Ibid.]
 4.FBI Press Release: "CONSPIRACY THEORIST AND WIFE, A
 SENIOR FLIGHT ATTENDANT FOR TWA, CHARGED IN
 CONNECTION WITH THEFT OF TWA 800 WRECKAGE".
 5.Commander Donaldson's letter to FBI Director Louis Freeh Page 1,
 Page 2, Page 3, Page 4, Page 5, Page 6, Page 7 


RELATED ARTICLES:
Flight 800 - Why Won't it Go Away?
Witnesses Allege NTSB Covering Evidence of Missile Attack
Commander Donaldson's Flight 800 Report Refutes NTSB

Letter to WINDS about Flight 800 

Copyright (c) 1998, The WINDS. ALL
 RIGHTS RESERVED.
http://www.TheWinds.org 

 Contact The WINDS webmaster.
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 06:26:04 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Fw: Every word on the Internet is recorded for ALL time
Message-ID: <199810132157.OAA10023@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: Jon Roland 
Subject: IP: Fw: Every word on the Internet is recorded for ALL time
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 17:09:43 -0800
To: "C.Bryson Hull" , misc-activism-militia@moderators.uu.net



------------------------
  From: "Adolph V. Stankus" 
  Subject: Every word on the Internet is recorded for ALL time 
  Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 15:13:34 -0700 
  To: A Message For You 


http://search.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPlate/1998-10/11/129l-101198-idx.ht
ml

Washington Post, Sunday, October 11, 1998; Page C01

Your Past Is Your Future, Web-Wise By Joseph D. Lasica

SAN FRANCISCO, Calif.-Our past now follows us as never before. For
centuries, refugees sailed the Atlantic to start new lives. Easterners
pulled up stakes and went west to California. Today, however, reinvention
comes less easily and second chances seem more remote. You may leave town,
but your electronic shadow stays behind, as anyone who has ventured onto the
Internet well knows.

We often view the Internet as a communication medium or an
information-retrieval tool, but it's also a powerful archiving medium that
takes snapshots of our digital lives--which can be stored forever.

It's not just official documents or consumer profiles about us that are
being collected, but the very essence of our daily online existence: Our
political opinions, prejudices, religious beliefs, sexual tastes and
personal quirks are all becoming part of an immense media goop that is
congealing into a permanent public record. What is different about the
digital archiving phenomenon is that our beliefs, habits and indiscretions
are being preserved for anyone to see--friends, relatives, rivals, lovers,
neighbors, bosses, landlords, and even obsessed stalkers.

Take all those ordinary Web pages that many of us have created in a burst of
enthusiasm with the new medium. People assume that their home pages
disappear once they pull the plug. Not necessarily. Sure, browsers and
search engines give you a "404: File Not Found" message when you call up
outdated Web pages. But those pages live on in other electronic nooks and
crannies. Since 1986, the Internet Archive, a kind of digital warehouse, has
been trolling the Web and hoarding everything it comes across--text, images,
sound clips. Every two months, it scoops up the entire Web and stores the
results on its virtual shelves. It has preserved my expired site, and it may
well have yours.

Similarly, postings to the Internet's 33,000 news groups may fall off the
edge of Usenet after a week or so, but they live on in databases such as
Deja News and the Internet Archive. Marie Coady, a freelance writer in
Woburn, Mass., was appalled to discover that her posts to online-news, a
small, cozy listserv of 1,350 news professionals, was available to anyone
through dozens of search engines on the Web. "I consider it an invasion of
privacy to have words typed in response to a query chiseled in stone," she
said. "In light of our litigious society, it could be dangerous to post any
message at all."

Many moderators post occasional notices about a list's public archiving
policy. But not all do, and few users read the fine print, anyway. "The odd
thing is, we perceive the Net as a conversation and not as public record,
and it turns out to be public record to a larger extent than people are
aware of," said Bruce Schneier, a cryptography consultant and co-editor of
"The Electronic Privacy Papers," a 1997 book. "You can easily imagine in 20
years a candidate being asked about a conversation he had in a chat room
while he was in college. We're becoming a world where everything is
recorded."

Beyond the question of informed consent lie larger questions: Should all of
this electronic flotsam and jetsam be archived in the first place? What are
the consequences for us if our digital footprints survive indefinitely? Who
should decide whether they do survive?

The answers are hardly comforting, especially for those given to strong
displays of emotion or opinion online. "We're now entering an era where tens
of millions of people are speaking on the record without any understanding
of what it means to speak on the record, and that's certainly
unprecedented," says David Sobel, general counsel for the Electronic Privacy
Information Center in Washington. "It is suddenly becoming impossible to
escape your past."
Your children and grandchildren not yet born will be able to reconstruct a
record of your digital life--not just the good stuff but also the
best-forgotten postings to alt.sex.fish or rec.nude. The Web shrine you once
erected to an old flame, with its hyperventilating vows of eternal devotion,
may give pause to a new lover in your life. The union solidarity page you
put up at your first job--years before you were bucking for senior
management--may come back to haunt your efforts to get a promotion. And who
would have predicted that your Senate candidacy would go down in flames when
your political opponent uncovered the image-rich homage to porn star Ashlyn
Gere you posted in college?

Most people don't have posterity in mind when they fire off notes or post
Web pages. Observes Schneier: "When you're in college and posting things
online, you're young and immortal and you don't think about the impact your
words will have five minutes from now, much less five, 10 or 20 years down
the road."

We can already see the outlines of this new world. When you apply for a job
in the high-tech sector, there's a fair chance your prospective employer
will use a search engine to scout out your online postings, from late-night
musings to intemperate rants fired off to a political news group. Would an
employer's decision be colored by information that has nothing to do with a
candidate's job qualifications, such as your out-of-the-mainstream religious
beliefs, sexual orientation, HIV status or personal habits? Absolutely, and
without apology. After all, "character" counts, too.

Federal law makes it a crime for agencies to compare most digital
information about U.S. citizens, points out Fred Cate, a law professor at
Indiana University and author of "Privacy in the Information Age." But
nothing prevents private companies or individuals from doing so. Criminal
convictions, driving records, property records and voter registration
records might be available with a few keystrokes.

Should employers, neighbors and descendants not yet born be able to poke
around in the digital attic for information about you?

Cate believes there are good reasons why we shouldn't be so concerned. "It's
the democratizing of Big Brother, and that's not such a bad thing," he says.
"You can find out as much about your boss as he can about you. I'm not
really happy that someone down the hall can follow me and make a database
about me, but that's the way it is in the digital age. If your feelings get
bruised, tough. If the information's true and not distorted, then you're
stuck with the things you said online years ago. I don't see this as a
privacy issue."

Perhaps not in the narrowest sense. But if every online expression becomes
fodder for somebody's professional, personal or political agenda, clearly we
lose certain freedoms of expression in the bargain. Do you really want to
live next door to Big Brother, even a more democratic one? Sobel says, "If
you define privacy as the right of individuals to control information about
themselves--as we do--then mega-archiving systems clearly raise significant
privacy issues. These systems convert every passing thought and
contemporaneous musing into a permanent, retrievable record--without, in
many cases, the knowledge or consent of the creator."

Even Brewster Kahle, who founded the nonprofit Internet Archive
(www.archive.org) and its commercial offshoot, Alexa Internet (www.aorg),
says, "There are some tricky issues here. A lot of this material is public,
but is it really meant to endure?"

What Kahle is doing is nothing less than astonishing. Alexa's 32 employees,
working in a century-old building in San Francisco's Presidio, sends out
"spiders" to crawl the Web and Usenet and store the text, video and audio on
a digital jukebox tape drive. It takes about two months to capture all 300
million publicly accessible Web pages. So far they've scooped up 10
terabytes of content, or 10 trillion bytes.

Kahle says he launched his project because "we need to preserve our digital
heritage. Unless we start saving it, every passing day we're losing the
record of one of the great turning points in human history." His Internet
Archive and Alexa have drawn widespread praise from academics, historians
and Net luminaries concerned that the Web's pioneer days may soon become
irretrievably lost. For researchers and scholars, it's a field day. For the
rest of us, it's a mixed blessing.

Sobel points out that individuals can't even prevent private indiscretions
from winding up as part of the Internet's global voyeurism machine. "I just
got a phone call from a distraught mother whose 16-year-old daughter's
ex-boyfriend posted nude photos of her on the Web. The photos were
consensual when they were taken. So suddenly it's part of the public domain,
and even if the mother persuades him to take them down, he may no longer
have control over how long this stuff is out there. This teenage girl may
have to live with that for the rest of her life."

Kahle offers another example: "The president's personal home page is
probably in our archives now--the person who'll become president in 20 or 30
years. You know that he or she is the kind of person who already has a Web
page up in college."

Are we condemned, then, to a future where journalists will pore over every
online college-age musing of a prospective president? It appears that way.
"I'm still struggling with the issues raised by this," Sobel says. "We need
a public debate to redefine the concepts of what should be private and
public. Should anyone be able to type your name into a search engine and
come up with public records about your private life? What good are laws that
expunge a crime from your record if the old records remain accessible to
anyone on the Net? What about information that's misleading, inaccurate, or
that you had no idea was out there in cyberspace?"

Kahle is well aware of the debate, and he's working with legal experts,
historians and privacy advocates to determine the best way to make archived
material available. "I used to be very oriented toward privacy, trying to
keep track of who knows what about me," he said. "I've become less fanatical
about it, because I find that it's more valuable to be found than for me to
be obscure. For those who don't want to be found, we should let them be."

One may well ask: Do we have that option anymore? As the Net becomes
ubiquitous, its underlying essence of interconnectedness and community come
with a price: the loss of anonymity. We are being drawn forcibly,
inexorably, into the global town square.
That is no reason to avoid the Internet (as if we could!). It is becoming
inextricably woven into the fabric of our everyday lives. As it should be,
for the Net is a gift, connecting us with like-minded individuals around the
world and allowing us to interact in soul-stirring ways. But we need to be
aware that our digital footprints are permanent ones.

Once, words were spoken and vanished like vapor in the air. No longer. Our
pasts are etched like a tattoo into our digital skins. For better or worse,
we're no longer a people who can reinvent ourselves.

Joseph Lasica writes frequently about new media.

(c) Copyright 1998 The Washington Post Company



---------------End of Original Message-----------------

===================================================================
Constitution Society, 1731 Howe Av #370, Sacramento, CA 95825
916/568-1022, 916/450-7941VM         Date: 10/12/98  Time: 17:09:43
http://www.constitution.org/     mailto:jon.roland@constitution.org
===================================================================




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 06:28:01 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.35: F.B.I. Set to Begin Using National DNA Database
Message-ID: <199810132157.OAA10034@netcom13.netcom.com>
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Content-Type: text/plain




From: "ama-gi ISPI" 
Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.35: F.B.I. Set to Begin Using National DNA Database
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 00:39:34 -0700
To: 

ISPI Clips 5.35: F.B.I. Set to Begin Using National DNA Database
News & Info from the Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI)
Tuesday October 13, 1998
ISPI4Privacy@ama-gi.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This From: The New York Times, October 12, 1998
http://www.nytimes.com

F.B.I. Set to Begin Using National DNA Database
http://www.nytimes.com/yr/mo/day/news/national/dna-data-base.html


        "The DNA data base started out with pariahs -- the sex
        offenders -- but has already been enlarged to include other
        felons and will probably be extended to include everyone,
        giving elites the power to control 'unruly' citizens."

By
NICHOLAS WADE

n a computer at a secret location, the FBI will open a national DNA
database on Tuesday that advocates say could significantly reduce rape and
other crimes by helping to catch repeat offenders earlier.

The data base, with a new generation of forensic DNA techniques, promises
to be so efficient that some civil libertarians fear it will be expanded
from people convicted of crimes to include almost everyone, giving the
government inordinate investigative powers over citizens.

The national DNA data base consists of 50 data bases run by the states but
unified by common test procedures and software designed by the FBI. As of
Tuesday, it will be possible to compare a DNA sample from a suspect or
crime scene in one state with all others in the system.

The national data base has been nearly a decade in the making. The final
pieces fell into place in June when Rhode Island became the last state to
set up a DNA data base.

But the system still faces many unresolved issues, which are likely to play
out according to the reaction from the public and the courts. One such
issue is what types of offenders should be included. Another is whether the
mass screening of suspects' DNA will prove constitutional.

DNA, the chemical that embodies a person's genetic programming, can be
found almost everywhere. People shed a constant torrent of dead skin cells.
Criminals leave blood when breaking and entering; they shed hair and skin
cells in fights, deposit saliva on glasses and leave sweat stains in head
bands. From only a few cells in such sources, enough DNA can be extracted
to identify the owner. A DNA database of sufficient size could presumably
help solve many crimes.

The crime-fighting potential of DNA data bases is becoming evident from the
experiences of Britain, which started earlier and has had fewer
administrative and constitutional hurdles to overcome. The data base there
initially focused on sex offenses but has spread to include burglaries and
car theft because of the high number of DNA matches that police forces were
obtaining. Moreover, there was considerable crossover at least in Britain,
among different kinds of offenses.

"People who commit serious crime very often have convictions for petty
crime in their history, so if you could get them on the data base early you
may prevent serious crime," said David Werrett, manager of the DNA data
base for England and Wales.

The English DNA data base includes entries from crime scenes and from
everyone convicted of a crime, as well as from suspects in unresolved
cases. Since the system's debut in 1995, it has matched 28,000 people to
crime scenes and has made 6,000 links between crime scenes. The data base
now holds 360,000 entries and Werrett said he expected it would eventually
include one third of all English men between 16 and 30, the principal ages
for committing crimes.

Werrett said that the data base has grown because police forces in England,
which pay $55 for a DNA analysis, are finding it cost effective. Recently
the Police Superintendents Association called for the entire population to
be DNA tested.

Forensic use of DNA in the United States is unlikely to go as fast or as
far as in Britain.


"Their system makes a tremendous amount of sense the way they approach it,
but in the United States we have a different perspective on privacy and on
the extent to which we would be willing to depend on a data base," said
Christopher Asplen, executive director of the national Commission on the
Future of DNA Evidence.

One major privacy safeguard in the FBI's system is that only a minute
fraction of a person's genetic endowment becomes part of the data base.
Under a new DNA profiling system known as STR's, for short tandem repeats,
a person's DNA is tested at 13 specific sites at which a short length of
DNA is repeated in a kind of stutter. The number of repeats is highly
variable from one person to another, so that measuring the number of
repeats at the 13 designated sites gives a way of identifying each
individual with a probability of one in several billion.

The blood or other samples donated by individuals are retained by the
states in collections known as DNA banks. All that goes into the
computerized DNA data bases is the set of 13 numbers from the STR
measurements. Only identifying information, and nothing about a person's
health or appearance, can be divined from the STR's.

Access to the DNA data base is permitted only for law enforcement purposes,
with a $100,000 fine for unauthorized disclosures. No known breaches of the
system have occurred.

One major unresolved issue is that of the types of offenders from whom DNA
profiles should be taken. All states require people convicted of serious
sexual offenses to donate blood samples, but differ on requiring samples
from other groups such as people convicted of violent felonies, juvenile
offenders and parolees.

Four states -- Virginia, Wyoming, New Mexico and Alabama -- require all
people convicted of a felony to provide samples for DNA profiling.
Louisiana allows DNA to be taken from people merely arrested in a crime, a
practice that has not been tested in the courts.

State laws establishing DNA data bases have been challenged in 13
jurisdictions and have been upheld in all but one, in Massachusetts. Some
states have revised their original legislation to add offenses.

"I think the trend is that 10 years from now all felonies will be covered,"
said M. Dawn Herkenham, chief of the FBI's Forensic Science Systems Unit in
Washington. "We recommend that all violent felonies, burglaries, juveniles
and retroactivity for people on parole be included."

>From his office in Birmingham, England, last week, Werrett said, "Today we
have issued matches on three murders, five rapes, nine serious robberies,
two abductions and two violent burglaries."

No state DNA data base has acquired the critical mass to furnish such a hit
rate. Many state laboratories are understaffed and have large backlogs of
DNA samples to analyze. The backlogs are particularly worrisome in the case
of rapes where specimens may lie unanalyzed while the rapist assaults more
victims. "People may be appalled to know how many rape suspect kits are out
there untouched," Ms. Herkenham of the FBI said.

"The hit ratio depends on whether we can go back and examine all the
evidence that comes in the door," said Dr. Barry Duceman, director of
biological science in the New York State Police Forensic Investigation
Center in Albany. "We are trying to address a crushing case backlog and to
get the technology on line -- you'd be hard pressed to say we are
overstaffed."

The case backlog problem is compounded because state laboratories are
switching to the STR method of DNA profiling from an older method of
analysis called RFLP (for restriction fragment length polymorphism). All
the samples analyzed by RFLP must be redone by STR if they are to be
searchable in the new data base.

When these teething problems are overcome, many experts believe that the
state and national DNA data base systems may have a significant effect,
particularly in reducing crimes like rape that often involve repeat
offenders. By scoring a "cold hit" between crime scene data and a person,
DNA data bases can be particularly effective in solving cases with no
suspects.

"Once we get that infrastructure in place and start getting those hits, the
benefits will lead to higher utilization," Asplen said.

But like other experts involved with DNA testing, he expressed concern that
DNA profiling be developed in a publicly acceptable way. "The public does
need to have a trust level with this and be assured that law enforcement is
not going to abuse this powerful tool," he said. One practice likely to
raise eyebrows, if not hackles, is mass screening, which is widely used in
the United Kingdom but not yet commonplace here.

In high profile crime cases, police in Britain often ask, and can require,
all members of a town or building to give DNA samples so as to prove
themselves guiltless and help narrow the search for the culprit. The
National Commission on the Future of DNA Testing is examining under what
circumstances the donation of samples can be considered voluntary. In an
office, where employees who declined to donate a sample might be fired, a
police request for DNA might be coercive.

A future use of DNA testing is that of phenotypic analysis. It will soon be
technically possible to infer from the genes in a person's DNA many
probable aspects of their appearance, such as hair, skin and eye color.
Werrett said the main problem with such predictions would lie in training
police to understand their probabilistic nature: told there is a 90 percent
chance that the suspect has red hair, investigators should not ignore the
10 percent chance that he does not.

DNA reveals so much about a person that behavioral geneticists might wish
to search through state data banks for genetic variants linked to criminal
behavior. Most states say their DNA data banks can be accessed only for law
enforcement purposes, like the data bases. But Alabama authorizes the use
of its samples for "educational research or medical research or
development," an apparent invitation to genetic inquiry.

An impending issue is whether states should retain their DNA samples once
the information has been entered into the DNA data base. Forensic managers
like to retain samples as a hedge against changing technology. Others say
the DNA sample banks create an opportunity for abuse, and that if there is
another change in technology the government should just rebuild its data
base from scratch.

Because DNA can be found at so many crime scenes, DNA data bases promise to
be powerful aids in catching criminals. But what thrills forensic experts
tends to chill civil libertarians.

"The DNA data base started out with pariahs -- the sex offenders -- but has
already been enlarged to include other felons and will probably be extended
to include everyone, giving elites the power to control 'unruly' citizens,"
said Philip Bereano a professor of technology and public policy at the
University of Washington in Seattle.

Dr. Eric Juengst, a bioethicist at Case Western Reserve University in
Cleveland and a member of the FBI's DNA Advisory Board, said the original
policy in setting up the DNA data base was that it was "suitable only for
our most serious category of criminals," and that it would be a breach of
that policy to expand its scope.

The risks raised by Bereano are worth watching, Juengst said, "but as a
society we have to learn how to control powerful tools of all kinds, like
nuclear power. I don't see it as an endless slippery slope."

Copyright 1998 The New York Times Company

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 06:25:48 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: "The Billion Dollar Terror Rumor"
Message-ID: <199810132157.OAA10046@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: "The Billion Dollar Terror Rumor"
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 06:31:30 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  Salon Magazine
http://www.salonmagazine.com/news/1998/10/08newsa.html

The billion-dollar rumor 

 How unsubstantiated reports
 that the World Trade bombers
 may have included nerve gas in
 their arsenal led to some pretty
 pricey public policy. 

 BY JEFF STEIN

 It began as rumor, then
 became fact. 

 Fact became alarm. And
 alarm led to a rallying cry
for a multimillion-dollar federal program that has
now itself ricocheted out of control. 

Kenneth Starr's investigation of President Clinton?
No, it's the federal budget for countering a
doomsday attack by terrorists armed with chemical
and biological weapons. 

The rumor in this case was that terrorists had put
deadly sodium cyanide into the monstrous February
1993 World Trade Center bomb that killed six
people, injured more than 1,000, blasted a
seven-story hole underneath the twin towers and
created panic in the streets of lower Manhattan.
The blast should have turned any sodium cyanide
present into hydrogen cyanide, unleashing a
poisonous cloud that could have instantly killed
hundreds or thousands more people. 

That is, had any sodium cyanide been there.
According to a thorough, as yet unpublished study
of the incident by an arms-control think tank at the
Monterey Institute for International Studies, there is
no evidence to support the long-swirling assertion,
which first surfaced in the solemn pronouncement
of a respected federal judge in 1994. The rumor
then made its way into scores of newspaper articles
and was cited by leading U.S. senators to support
anti-terrorist initiatives that have amounted to
billions of dollars, many of them unaccounted for,
according to a recent investigation by congressional
auditors. 

John Parachini, a senior associate at the Monterey
Institute, made a draft of the study available after
being contacted by Salon. Word of his findings has
been circulating in the community of Washington
terrorism experts. "I'm not against spending money
for defending against chemical and biological
weapons," Parachini said in an interview, "but we
ought to know why we're spending for it, and to get
the facts straight." In his study, Parachini noted that
the World Trade Center bombers considered using
chemical weapons, but did not -- an important fact
for government terrorism specialists to ponder. 

"Examining the motivations and behaviors of
terrorists who would have used a chemical weapon
if it was available, but did not, may offer important
lessons about how to thwart such attacks in the
future," he writes. Parachini traced the origins of
the cyanide gas story to the first trial of World
Trade Center bombers in 1994, when federal
prosecutors raised the specter of a chemical bomb,
no doubt to darken the jury's view of the
defendants. The theme was picked up by presiding
federal Judge Kevin Duffy in his sentencing
statement to the stone-faced defendants. 

"You had sodium cyanide around, and I'm sure it
was in the bomb," the judge intoned. "Thank God
the sodium cyanide burned instead of vaporizing. If
the sodium cyanide had vaporized, it is clear what
would have happened is the cyanide gas would
have been sucked into the north tower and
everybody in the north tower would have been
killed. That to my mind is exactly what was
intended." 

The judge may have been "sure it was in the
bomb," but the defendants were never even
charged under anti-terrorism statutes that make
mere possession of potential chemical and biological
weapons a federal crime, Parachini noted. The
rumor's origins date back to an earlier raid by the
FBI of a New Jersey storage shed rented by the
suspects. The agents found one sealed bottle of
sodium cyanide in aqueous form. Aqueous sodium
cyanide is used for photographic purposes and can
cost less than $3 per pound, Parachini noted in his
study, after consulting chemical experts. But it is
sodium cyanide in solid form, usually briquettes
costing many hundreds of dollars more, that can be
effective as a chemical weapon when it's converted
to hydrogen cyanide gas by a blast. 

Nevertheless, the federal prosecutor in the initial
World Trade Center trial raised the idea of a
chemical bomb when questioning a senior FBI
official, Steven Burmeister, about the consequences
of mixing sodium cyanide with other chemicals
present in the bomb. Burmeister testified that "if
you breathe that gas I'm afraid you've breathed
your last breath." Despite this "chilling testimony,"
however, "Burmeister never suggested during the
trial that his investigation had led him to believe that
the bomb actually contained sodium cyanide,"
Parachini writes -- and the trial transcript proves. 

In addition, an FBI chemist who participated in the
case told Parachini flatly, "There is no forensic
evidence indicating the presence of sodium cyanide
at the bomb site." 

Judge Duffy's statement to the contrary, however,
gave legs to the notion that the defendants had
made -- or tried to make -- a chemical bomb. No
less an authority than Maj. Gen. George Friel, the
former head of the U.S. Army's Chemical and
Biological Defense Command, told Gannett News
Service that the World Trade Center bombers may
have attempted to mix a toxic agent -- most likely
arsenic -- with the bomb they planted in the garage
of the building. 

That was a new one to federal investigators.
Neither FBI agents nor prosecutors mentioned
arsenic as a bomb ingredient in the trial. Despite the
nonexistent evidence, however, Judge Duffy's
charge was taken up by two influential senators,
Richard Lugar, R-Ind., and Sam Nunn, D-Ga., who
called it "a warning bell." 

"The trial judge at the sentencing of those
responsible for the World Trade Center bombing
pointed out that the killers in that case had access to
chemicals to make lethal cyanide gas ... and
probably put those chemicals into that bomb that
exploded," Nunn said during a 1996 floor debate on
a multibillion-dollar bill aimed at bolstering U.S.
defenses against weapons of mass destruction. 

Lugar also cited Judge Duffy's statement as
evidence of "how close we have come to witnessing
acts of terrorism involving weapons of mass
destruction directed toward the United States." He
urged his Senate colleagues to "listen to Judge
Duffy," and compared the World Trade Center
bomb to both the 1995 sarin gas attack on the
Tokyo subway by Japanese cultists and the
placement of a radioactive package in a Moscow
park. 

The media were next to pick up Duffy's theme.
One typical story, in the Los Angeles Times in July
1996, stated, "The World Trade Center bombers
had sodium cyanide, which if used ... would have
released poison gas, vastly increasing the fatalities
in New York, intelligence officials said." Syndicated
columnist Trudy Rubin cited Judge Duffy in the
course of applauding "some farsighted lawmakers
trying to confront the unthinkable." 

The Nunn-Lugar bill, which included $235 million
for training local "first responders" to a chemical or
biological attack, passed 100-0. But that was
merely the gateway to a mushrooming federal
anti-terrorism crusade that now costs upwards of
$1 billion a year -- and perhaps twice that,
according to some experts -- and that last week led
to the creation of the Defense Threat Reduction
Agency, which will "spend hundreds of millions of
dollars in research for better sensors and technology
to detect biological and chemical weapons,"
according to the Associated Press. 

Counter-terrorism may be the magic word for
funding programs in Washington today, but a
withering audit by the General Accounting Office
has raised questions about where the money is
going: "More money is being spent to combat
terrorism without any assurance of whether it is
focused in the right programs or in the right
amounts,'' said Richard Davis, a GAO auditor
specializing in weapons of mass destruction.
"Billions of dollars are being spent by numerous
agencies with roles or potential roles in combating
terrorism, but because no federal entity has been
tasked to collect such information across the
government, the specific amount is unknown,'' the
GAO said in its most recent report on terrorism.
"Further, no government-wide spending priorities
for the various aspects of combating terrorism have
been set.'' 

Meanwhile, past studies have cautioned that while
chemical or biological weapons may be cheaper and
easier to make than nuclear bombs, terrorists have
shied away from using them. Despite past
allegations, neither the Red Army Faction, the
Beider-Meinhof Gang nor the Weather
Underground ever used them, Parachini concluded.

Ramzi Ahmed Yousef, the convicted mastermind
of the World Trade Center blast, made the point
himself while flying back in custody from Pakistan,
where he was captured in 1996, the Monterey
Institute study notes. "Yousef ... revealed to U.S.
Secret Service agent Brian Parr that the WTC
bomb did not contain sodium cyanide or any other
poison, but that he had planned to use 'hydrogen
cyanide in some other form of a bomb, not as large
a bomb, but a different type of bomb to disperse
that [poison] in the Trade Center,'" the study says. 

"Yousef told Parr that he had decided not to take
this approach because 'it was going to be too
expensive to implement.'" 

The judge may have been "sure it was in the
bomb," but the defendants were never even
charged under anti-terrorism statutes that make
mere possession of potential chemical and biological
weapons a federal crime, Parachini noted. The
rumor's origins date back to an earlier raid by the
FBI of a New Jersey storage shed rented by the
suspects. The agents found one sealed bottle of
sodium cyanide in aqueous form. Aqueous sodium
cyanide is used for photographic purposes and can
cost less than $3 per pound, Parachini noted in his
study, after consulting chemical experts. But it is
sodium cyanide in solid form, usually briquettes
costing many hundreds of dollars more, that can be
effective as a chemical weapon when it's converted
to hydrogen cyanide gas by a blast. 

Nevertheless, the federal prosecutor in the initial
World Trade Center trial raised the idea of a
chemical bomb when questioning a senior FBI
official, Steven Burmeister, about the consequences
of mixing sodium cyanide with other chemicals
present in the bomb. Burmeister testified that "if
you breathe that gas I'm afraid you've breathed
your last breath." Despite this "chilling testimony,"
however, "Burmeister never suggested during the
trial that his investigation had led him to believe that
the bomb actually contained sodium cyanide,"
Parachini writes -- and the trial transcript proves. 

In addition, an FBI chemist who participated in the
case told Parachini flatly, "There is no forensic
evidence indicating the presence of sodium cyanide
at the bomb site." 

Judge Duffy's statement to the contrary, however,
gave legs to the notion that the defendants had
made -- or tried to make -- a chemical bomb. No
less an authority than Maj. Gen. George Friel, the
former head of the U.S. Army's Chemical and
Biological Defense Command, told Gannett News
Service that the World Trade Center bombers may
have attempted to mix a toxic agent -- most likely
arsenic -- with the bomb they planted in the garage
of the building. 

That was a new one to federal investigators.
Neither FBI agents nor prosecutors mentioned
arsenic as a bomb ingredient in the trial. Despite the
nonexistent evidence, however, Judge Duffy's
charge was taken up by two influential senators,
Richard Lugar, R-Ind., and Sam Nunn, D-Ga., who
called it "a warning bell." 

"The trial judge at the sentencing of those
responsible for the World Trade Center bombing
pointed out that the killers in that case had access to
chemicals to make lethal cyanide gas ... and
probably put those chemicals into that bomb that
exploded," Nunn said during a 1996 floor debate on
a multibillion-dollar bill aimed at bolstering U.S.
defenses against weapons of mass destruction. 

Lugar also cited Judge Duffy's statement as
evidence of "how close we have come to witnessing
acts of terrorism involving weapons of mass
destruction directed toward the United States." He
urged his Senate colleagues to "listen to Judge
Duffy," and compared the World Trade Center
bomb to both the 1995 sarin gas attack on the
Tokyo subway by Japanese cultists and the
placement of a radioactive package in a Moscow
park. 

The media were next to pick up Duffy's theme.
One typical story, in the Los Angeles Times in July
1996, stated, "The World Trade Center bombers
had sodium cyanide, which if used ... would have
released poison gas, vastly increasing the fatalities
in New York, intelligence officials said." Syndicated
columnist Trudy Rubin cited Judge Duffy in the
course of applauding "some farsighted lawmakers
trying to confront the unthinkable." 

The Nunn-Lugar bill, which included $235 million
for training local "first responders" to a chemical or
biological attack, passed 100-0. But that was
merely the gateway to a mushrooming federal
anti-terrorism crusade that now costs upwards of
$1 billion a year -- and perhaps twice that,
according to some experts -- and that last week led
to the creation of the Defense Threat Reduction
Agency, which will "spend hundreds of millions of
dollars in research for better sensors and technology
to detect biological and chemical weapons,"
according to the Associated Press. 

Counter-terrorism may be the magic word for
funding programs in Washington today, but a
withering audit by the General Accounting Office
has raised questions about where the money is
going: "More money is being spent to combat
terrorism without any assurance of whether it is
focused in the right programs or in the right
amounts,'' said Richard Davis, a GAO auditor
specializing in weapons of mass destruction.
"Billions of dollars are being spent by numerous
agencies with roles or potential roles in combating
terrorism, but because no federal entity has been
tasked to collect such information across the
government, the specific amount is unknown,'' the
GAO said in its most recent report on terrorism.
"Further, no government-wide spending priorities
for the various aspects of combating terrorism have
been set.'' 

Meanwhile, past studies have cautioned that while
chemical or biological weapons may be cheaper and
easier to make than nuclear bombs, terrorists have
shied away from using them. Despite past
allegations, neither the Red Army Faction, the
Beider-Meinhof Gang nor the Weather
Underground ever used them, Parachini concluded.

Ramzi Ahmed Yousef, the convicted mastermind
of the World Trade Center blast, made the point
himself while flying back in custody from Pakistan,
where he was captured in 1996, the Monterey
Institute study notes. "Yousef ... revealed to U.S.
Secret Service agent Brian Parr that the WTC
bomb did not contain sodium cyanide or any other
poison, but that he had planned to use 'hydrogen
cyanide in some other form of a bomb, not as large
a bomb, but a different type of bomb to disperse
that [poison] in the Trade Center,'" the study says. 

"Yousef told Parr that he had decided not to take
this approach because 'it was going to be too
expensive to implement.'" 
SALON | Oct. 8, 1998 

Jeff Stein covers national security issues for Salon. 
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 06:33:38 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Privacy Fears: FBI's DNA Database
Message-ID: <199810132203.PAA10570@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Privacy Fears: FBI's DNA Database
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 08:54:57 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  San Jose Mercury News
http://www.mercurycenter.com/premium/front/docs/dnadata12.htm

Published Monday, October 12, 1998, in the San Jose Mercury News 

DNA database offers promise -- and privacy fears

BY NICHOLAS WADE
New York Times 

In a computer at a secret location, the FBI will open a national
DNA database Tuesday that advocates say could significantly
reduce rape and other crimes by helping to catch repeat offenders
earlier.

The database, with a new generation of forensic DNA
techniques, promises to be so efficient that some civil libertarians
fear it will be expanded from people convicted of crimes to
include almost everyone, giving the government inordinate
investigative powers over citizens.

The national DNA database consists of 50 databases run by the
states but unified by common test procedures and software
designed by the FBI. As of Tuesday, it will be possible to
compare a DNA sample from a suspect or crime scene in one
state with all others in the system.

The national database has been nearly a decade in the making.
The final pieces fell into place in June when Rhode Island became
the last state to set up a DNA database.

But the system still faces many unresolved issues, which are likely
to play out according to the reaction from the public and the
courts. One such issue is what types of offenders should be
included. Another is whether the mass screening of suspects'
DNA will prove constitutional.

DNA, the chemical that embodies a person's genetic
programming, can be found almost everywhere. People shed a
constant torrent of dead skin cells. Criminals leave blood when
breaking and entering; they shed hair and skin cells in fights,
deposit saliva on glasses and leave sweat stains in head bands.
>From only a few cells in such sources, enough DNA can be
extracted to identify the owner. A DNA database of sufficient
size could presumably help solve many crimes.

Britain's experience

The crime-fighting potential of DNA databases is becoming
evident from the experiences of Britain, which started earlier and
has had fewer administrative and constitutional hurdles to
overcome. The database there initially focused on sex offenses
but has spread to include burglaries and car theft because of the
high number of DNA matches that police forces were obtaining.
Moreover, there was considerable crossover, at least in Britain,
among different kinds of offenses.

``People who commit serious crime very often have convictions
for petty crime in their history, so if you could get them on the
database early you may prevent serious crime,'' said David
Werrett, manager of the DNA database for England and Wales.

The English DNA database includes entries from crime scenes
and from everyone convicted of a crime, as well as from suspects
in unresolved cases. Since the system's debut in 1995, it has
matched 28,000 people to crime scenes and has made 6,000
links between crime scenes. The database now holds 360,000
entries and Werrett said he expected it would eventually include
one-third of all English males between 16 and 30, the principal
ages for committing crimes.

Werrett said the database has grown because police forces in
England, which pay $55 for a DNA analysis, are finding it
cost-effective. Recently the Police Superintendents Association
called for the entire population to be DNA-tested.

Forensic use of DNA in the United States is unlikely to go as fast
or as far as in Britain.

``Their system makes a tremendous amount of sense the way they
approach it, but in the United States we have a different
perspective on privacy and on the extent to which we would be
willing to depend on a database,'' said Christopher Asplen,
executive director of the national Commission on the Future of
DNA Evidence.

One privacy safeguard

One major privacy safeguard in the FBI's system is that only a
minute fraction of a person's genetic endowment becomes part of
the database. Under a new DNA profiling system known as
STRs, for short tandem repeats, a person's DNA is tested at 13
specific sites at which a short length of DNA is repeated in a kind
of stutter. The number of repeats is highly variable from one
person to another, so that measuring the number of repeats at the
13 designated sites gives a way of identifying each individual with
a probability of one in several billion.

The blood or other samples donated by individuals are retained
by the states in collections known as DNA banks. All that goes
into the computerized DNA databases is the set of 13 numbers
from the STR measurements. Only identifying information, and
nothing about a person's health or appearance, can be divined
from the STRs.

Access to the DNA database is permitted only for law
enforcement purposes, with a $100,000 fine for unauthorized
disclosures. No known breaches of the system have occurred.

One major unresolved issue is that of the types of offenders from
whom DNA profiles should be taken. All states require people
convicted of serious sexual offenses to donate blood samples, but
states differ on requiring samples from other groups such as
people convicted of violent felonies, juvenile offenders and
parolees.

Four states -- Virginia, Wyoming, New Mexico and Alabama --
require all people convicted of a felony to provide samples for
DNA profiling. Louisiana allows DNA to be taken from people
merely arrested in a crime, a practice that has not been tested in
the courts.

Databases upheld

State laws establishing DNA databases have been challenged in
13 jurisdictions and have been upheld in all but one, in
Massachusetts. Some states have revised their original legislation
to add offenses.

``I think the trend is that 10 years from now all felonies will be
covered,'' said M. Dawn Herkenham, chief of the FBI's Forensic
Science Systems Unit in Washington. ``We recommend that all
violent felonies, burglaries, juveniles and retroactivity for people
on parole be included.''

>From his office in Birmingham, England, last week, Werrett said,
``Today, we have issued matches on three murders, five rapes,
nine serious robberies, two abductions and two violent
burglaries.''

No state DNA database has acquired the critical mass to furnish
such a hit rate. Many state laboratories are understaffed and have
large backlogs of DNA samples to analyze. The backlogs are
particularly worrisome in the case of rapes where specimens may
lie unanalyzed while the rapist assaults more victims. The case
backlog problem is compounded because state laboratories are
switching to the STR method of DNA profiling from an older
method of analysis called RFLP, for restriction fragment length
polymorphism. All the samples analyzed by RFLP must be
redone by STR if they are to be searchable in the new database.

When these teething problems are overcome, many experts
believe that the state and national DNA database systems may
have a significant effect, particularly in reducing crimes such as
rape that often involve repeat offenders. But like other experts
involved with DNA testing, Asplen expressed concern that DNA
profiling be developed in a publicly acceptable way. ``The public
does need to have a trust level with this and be assured that law
enforcement is not going to abuse this powerful tool,'' he said. 
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




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To subscribe or unsubscribe, email:
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 21:45:26 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Hidden WebTV signatures
Message-ID: <199810131310.PAA12090@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

I have no idea to wherre to begin an analysis....  The begining is noticably
the same.  with more variation the farther along.  A header or version
identifier?  obviosly can't be a straight hash.

At 04:55 PM 10/11/98 , you wrote:
>
>On 11 Oct 1998 15:57:33 -0500, Anonymous  wrote:
>
>>
>>Peter Gutmann writes:
>>
>>> For those of you who don't read sci.crypt, Robert Ames 
has 
>>> posted an article in which he observes that all WebTV posts contain an 
>>> X-WebTV-Signature: line containing base64-encoded data.  For samples of 
>>> WebTV-generated posts, try the alt.weemba newsgroup, which is filled
with 
>>> WebTV-user drool (caution: remember to employ protection when exposting
your 
>>> mind to the content of the messages).  Some samples:
>>>  
>>> X-WebTV-Signature: 1
>>>         ETAsAhQDqtur/jfleJ2CDOnNrVoeyALEQAIUOQyCBbzjx5HHfxeMERDgCjztXOU=

>>> X-WebTV-Signature: 1
>>>         ETAtAhUAmCCzQt+Tqt6fNX+L9+gDCECaqQkCFA0YCPz5tk85mUgq7iX/u4vWvOgG

>>
>>Could someone grep their news spool for a few hundred of these signatures
>>and post them here?  We can do statistical analysis on them and determine
>>whether they all appear to be modulo the same q value.
>
>
>Here ya go.  313 webtv sigs
>
>-- Phelix
>
>
>
>	ETAtAhQeHk0+b8Au0iGpkJrZtwhsU2MVoAIVAJR/nr45zMDoq1G526NRP+3jHVIb 
>	ETAtAhUAiWMjaBJx75P5wCgIxslClcSUU4cCFHT6dVYU49dtEvX4HCI4bcmEiKBU 
>	ETAsAhRLS36vm1OTCBG3CIAwMpdtg3fR1gIUdgWUE1cbbagEl7VbQvsengViPHc= 

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP Cyber-Knights Templar build 5.5.3ckt

iQEVAwUBNiNNzaKPqmf00ZAbAQGtuwf8DCEKYf1rBbNCgCraoROS/62RfvZ6pmau
nvt+5lF5r6Lk6xEEFz5XoMz+loIW/Y2MRZ9Wly9t9pIDa6r+o+g6AI3RMpjio0Mn
b04MZL3uHLcKaxo7yThocc8CVUlQRoap7FfHPkMoUH04CpfJtWcS/E3IfsAPXovW
w2XG6N9bEJbLyxc1I9dGSb63WRHE5ADbzgGkUKhNJirgZukdBLn/KMrnhsjeOlUT
+sLMTHiH5/5NbXl+Te7+jV/BBUgYDnz3kZAZrQo0XTBzgG4J8ORg8s3NmCA0j120
vxpXTRgay43OYJEACLeRWhUcONdmdffuqqUQ5AmAaTDj9hRPZlPXNA==
=U1Fq
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 05:40:50 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: What it's like to get a subpoena (re Toto) (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810132108.QAA07675@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 21:14:41 +0100
> From: Adam Back 
> Subject: Re: What it's like to get a subpoena (re Toto)

> Perhaps they lack proof that the message in question was sent to the
> list, very little is signed, and Toto surrounded himself with
> forgeries.

True, there is also the issue of SMTP forgeries. Since there is no host
authentication your security is as strong as your trust. His signing the
message raises some interesting issues, especialy with the subsequent
developments related to signature strength.

> Not that it makes much difference that I can see -- the issue is
> surely whether CJ wrote the post, and whether the post and the AP
> mockup constitutes a credible threat.  (That they apparently think
> Toto's AP mockup was credible shows a lack of understanding).

The officers I talked to in person admitted to not knowing about Bell or AP.
Their interest seemed to be related solely to issues about threats to
specific individuals or locations within the IRS infrastructure.

My impression was that from their perspective this was just another subpeona
delivery and interview. They each had a list of questions/notes and they
basicly looked to be going down the list and filling in blanks.

> I don't see why they're bothering you, I wonder if the other majordomo
> operators have received, or shortly will receive similar visits.

I raised the same issue with the agent in Seattle via phone. He seemed to
comprehend the mundane role a mailing list operator leads, especialy since
I don't keep archives nor moderate the traffic. He was at least willing to
discuss depositions and such. If luck is on my side they'll let me explain
how SSZ works in regards the CDR as well as what Toto/CJ/aka said to me
directly via phone and in person.

> Perhaps we could send archive URLs to Jeff Gordon.

I made sure to explain how to get Cypherpunks archives via Yahoo with the
two agents this morning. I also explained the very ad hoc nature of
participation in the CDR and why users come and go.

I even got to explain how the remailer works by using an example involving a
spammer. They were quite clear on what a spammer was and how they distribute
traffic.

> > Please don't call or send private email requesting further
> > details. They didn't ask me to keep any of our discussion
> > confidential but until I better understand what is going on I'm
> > taking the conservative course (I had a big fight with myself about
> > whether to even post this).
> 
> Well thanks for making it.  I say make it all public, FWIW.

I agree in principle. Now whether particular circumstances will allay their
wills to mine is another issue entirely. In particular since I'm going to be
testifying before a grand jury in Washington state versus Texas is something
that tells me I don't know all the ground rules possibly. Especialy since I
can't have a lawyer present during questioning (and I thought the only
stipulation with council was a value exceeding $20), that bothers my
Constitutional constitution more than I care to admit.



    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 05:20:08 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Soccer Moms?
In-Reply-To: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F84C8@MSX11002>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Actually, we've been persistant victims of a misspelling, here.

According to Rush Limbaugh, the true spelling, evidently, is "Sucker", not
"Soccer" Moms.

Just what they've been sucking, I suppose I would as an exercise to the
reader, though I bet they didn't inhale more than once without getting a
severe um, headache, and we all know that "blow" is just an expression...

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 06:28:02 +0800
To: aba@dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back)
Subject: Re: What it's like to get a subpoena (re Toto)y
In-Reply-To: <199810132014.VAA12469@server.eternity.org>
Message-ID: <199810132202.RAA20785@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



I have not been reading the list lately, but, is that story with
Toto still going on? Is he in jail or something? If yes, please
pass him along my moral support if that is feasible. Perhaps I will
start reading the list again.

igor

PS No visits from the IRS yet.


Adam Back wrote:
> 
> 
> Jim Choate writes about his visit from IRS agents in relation to Toto.
> 
> Jim Choate writes:
> > I was visited by two nicely mannerd IRS agents this morning. We
> > talked for about an hour or so about Cypherpunks, CJ, Austin,
> > majordomo, etc. In the process I was served with a subpoena from the
> > Western District of Washington [...]
> > 
> > I explained how majordomo works, how to manipulate majordomo to get
> > lists of subscribers (I used the SSZ subscriber list as an example),
> > and described the time in July (I believe) when CJ/Toto/aka visited
> > the local meeting. We also discussed the potential for altering
> > email traffic through a remailer.
> 
> Perhaps they lack proof that the message in question was sent to the
> list, very little is signed, and Toto surrounded himself with
> forgeries.
> 
> Not that it makes much difference that I can see -- the issue is
> surely whether CJ wrote the post, and whether the post and the AP
> mockup constitutes a credible threat.  (That they apparently think
> Toto's AP mockup was credible shows a lack of understanding).
> 
> > I've made it clear I have no problems answering their questions but
> > have no desire to go to Seattle in Nov. or any other time. They are
> > looking into whether a deposition given here would be sufficient for
> > their needs. Until then I'm getting ready for a 2-3 day trip to
> > Seattle in Nov.....
> 
> I don't see why they're bothering you, I wonder if the other majordomo
> operators have received, or shortly will receive similar visits.
> 
> Perhaps we could send archive URLs to Jeff Gordon.
> 
> > I'm currently trying to decide whether to scan and post the subpoena
> > on the SSZ webpage.
> 
> Sure please do.
> 
> > It's interesting that they requested archives of the list. 
> 
> I would have thought Jeff Gordon, the IRS agent investigating Toto,
> would be subscribed to the list, at least via an alias.
> 
> Also, there are several operational cypherpunks list archives
> remaining.
> 
> > Please don't call or send private email requesting further
> > details. They didn't ask me to keep any of our discussion
> > confidential but until I better understand what is going on I'm
> > taking the conservative course (I had a big fight with myself about
> > whether to even post this).
> 
> Well thanks for making it.  I say make it all public, FWIW.
> 
> Adam
> 



	- Igor.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 06:24:05 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Soccer Moms?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 4:27 PM -0400 on 10/13/98, Robert Hettinga wrote:

> Just what they've been sucking I suppose I would leave as an exercise to
> the reader, though I bet they didn't inhale more than once without getting
> a severe um, headache, and we all know that "blow" is just an expression...

Okay, maaaaybe I was just a liiiitle bit misogynistic there.

My considerable apologies to those I offended with the above...

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga

PS: No, I didn't get any mail about this, it's a real-live, genuine,
recantation.
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 07:23:08 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: What it's like to get a subpoena (re Toto) (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810132308.SAA08748@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 18:25:01 -0400
> From: John Young 
> Subject: Re: What it's like to get a subpoena (re Toto) (fwd)

> It's tough being the earliest ones contacted, having to decide
> as Tom and Jim have had to do about whether to go public
> or deal with the inquiries in private and hope that nothing worse
> develops.

That's what worries me, once the snowball gets rolling... I mean jeesh, I
run a program that handles email. This sort of stuff is exactly why I don't
like interacting with people via private email unless I know them personaly
(ie via non-electronic means). The software is publicly available and
certainly doesn't need me to explain it. While I can see some interest in
wanting to know what CJ/Toto/aka said to me that night on the phone and the
next day at the physical meet, it makes me wonder exactly what am I
*supposed* to know about...

> It's that switch from friendly and couterous to the other that
> none of want to think about, eh? "You're under arrest. Anything
> you say can and will be used against you." Hmm, what was I
> saying, posting, here.

Ahmen. Though a more insidous threat is the 'network' that gets built out of
it. I wonder if this means every time some bozo I happen to run across goes
postal I'm going to be 'investigated'? I wonder how long a name stays on
those (probably) non-existant lists?

> Makes a more convincing case to have a live body telling the
> facts of the matter, explaining how things work, somewhat eager 
> to instruct and please, in self-preservation, to keep the cops and
> court friendly and courteous. What was told to the investigators 
> in private, that's what hung Jim Bell and CJ.

That was the ultimate reason that I went ahead and posted it. That way
somebody *besides* me knew about it.

> Then the friendly folks came for you and me, working a list.

Which is the reason I'm talking to a lawyer to find out specificaly what is
going on. I mean in my own self interest and the continued existance of
TAG:SSZ it seems to be the thing to do. As far as I know I won't have access
to council once I'm in there.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 06:58:24 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: What it's like to get a subpoena (re Toto) (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199810132108.QAA07675@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <199810132233.SAA20920@camel14.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate's sharing his experiences with the IRS is
very welcome, as with Tom Allard forwarding the Jeff
Gordon request for assistance.

Other inquiries of folks on the list will probably happen,
and information about those would be beneficial. It would be
a great help to post here any other overtures, anonymous
if preferred.

It's tough being the earliest ones contacted, having to decide
as Tom and Jim have had to do about whether to go public
or deal with the inquiries in private and hope that nothing worse
develops.

It's likely that more serious targets will be approached later,
using material obtained from those not at risk, those with
no reason to fear the friendly, courteous IRS.

At least that's what happened with Jim Bell and CJ. They, too,
said they were handled in a friendly courteous manner until ... 
the case was presented to a magistrate.

According to CJ's sister even the shrink at Springfield is
the friendliest most courteous person she's talked to, helpful, 
considerate, and said he had CJ's interest at heart. She said 
she just hoped he didn't cut off CJ's medicine, cause him to 
go berzerk, then to disappear.

It's that switch from friendly and couterous to the other that
none of want to think about, eh? "You're under arrest. Anything
you say can and will be used against you." Hmm, what was I
saying, posting, here.

BTW, the offshore archives, if they are offshore, are a problem
for getting legal access to, and to use in court. I think a human 
linkage is preferred, in deposition, in court, testifying for the record.

Makes a more convincing case to have a live body telling the
facts of the matter, explaining how things work, somewhat eager 
to instruct and please, in self-preservation, to keep the cops and
court friendly and courteous. What was told to the investigators 
in private, that's what hung Jim Bell and CJ.

But, hey, they were nuts, right? Fuck them. 

Then the friendly folks came for you and me, working a list.








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: SDN 
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 10:00:11 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: FYI: More on WebTV security
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <19981013183214.A26717@divcom.slimy.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Tue, Oct 13, 1998 at 11:58:37AM -0500, Steve Bryan wrote:
> Has anyone hacked WebTV to enable a terminal to connect to a plain vanilla
> ISP (or better yet a local ethernet) or is it inexorably tied to their
> network of proxy servers? I get the impression that like a Newton or any
> other graphically limited device a WebTV browser would have to be aided by
> a proxy server that translates the content to more amenable form before it
> can take a crack at it. If it were possible to divorce it from their
> service it might be a nifty device for less than $100. This would become
> especially appealing if 128 bit crypto were thrown into the bargain.

The WebTV units are in fact tied to the WebTV service.  You can use another
ISP to reach the service, though, at a reduced cost.  (Search for OpenISP
at webtv.net.)  Retrofitting ethernet onto a box isn't practical.

The proxy servers do transform data, but I don't think the software in the
box requires it.  My understanding was that the transformations were just
for faster downloads, and did things like rescale images.  It doesn't matter
much, because there isn't a way to avoid using them.

More relevant to the list, the threat model for the WebTV service/box is
primarily concerned about loss of user data, forgotten passwords, and
unsecured data over the public internet.  It's not worried about privacy
from WebTV insiders.

As a result, all user data is stored on the service, traffic to and from the
box is encrypted, and data isn't hidden from the customer care people.

If that doesn't fit what you want out of it (and it doesn't seem very
close to a consensus cypherpunks threat model), don't get one.  I think
it's the best attempt at an easy-to-use network computer on the market,
but I don't use one myself.  It's not what I want.

Jon Leonard

The above opinions are mine and not WebTV's.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: owner-cypherpunks@toad.com
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 10:10:26 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Earn your worth not mlm!!! 330-258-9131
Message-ID: <199810140141.SAA13879@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I AM LOOKING FOR 2 TO 4 PEOPLE WHO ARE READY TO TAKE CHARGE OF THEIR
FINANCIAL FUTURE!! IF YOU CONSIDER YOURSELF OVER WORKED AND UNDER PAID
AND WOULD LIKE TO BE IN A DIFFERENT POSITION 6 MONTHS FROM NOW,
CALL THIS 1 MINUTE MESSAGE THAT WILL EMPOWER YOU FOR THE FUTURE. 
This is not multilevel or network marketing!!(330) 258-9131 






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Richard Stallman 
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 09:08:40 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Two? ways people could use your code
Message-ID: <199810140046.UAA06980@psilocin.gnu.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



People have brought up the argument of the two classes of possible
users of a library: those who want to write a free program, and those
who want to write a proprietary program.

This is a valid approach, but we must consider all the terms in the
equation.  There are actually three classes of possible projects that
might use code you have written:

* Those who want to make a free program.
* Those who want to make a proprietary program.
* Those who don't have strong views about the matter.

So let's look at each of these three cases, considering two available
choices (copylefting, or not copylefting), and how the decision
affects the goals of encouraging use of encryption, discouraging back
doors, and encouraging users' freedom.

* Some people believe in free software and will make their additions
  free no matter what.  Whether you use copyleft makes no difference
  in this kind of case.

* Often at companies, and sometimes at universities, people are dead
  set on making a proprietary program.  This program may be capable of
  doing a job, but its users will not have freedom, and they will have
  to take it on faith that there are no backdoors.

  Copylefting your code says this project cannot use it.  Most likely,
  the project will spend some extra money to write their own code, and
  the outcome for the public will be much the same.  They might do a
  worse job, or a better job.  There's some chance they would not do
  the project; whether that is a loss for the public is not clear.  It
  could mean less use of encryption; but if you also care about
  avoiding secret back doors, and about users' freedom, you won't see
  this as an unambiguous loss.

* Often at universities, and sometimes at companies, people decide to
  write a program but don't think about whether to make it free
  software.  They may not care, they may dislike thinking about the
  issue, they may simply not understand that there is an issue.

  In these cases, they will probably judge your code by its features,
  not by its distribution terms.  If they want to use your code, and
  your terms say that's permitted only if their program is free,
  they'll say, "Ok, I'll make it free, and use your code."

  In this kind of case, using copyleft will produce a benefit: more
  freedom for the end user, who can check, rather than trust, that
  there are no back doors in the program.

Conclusion: if you care *only* about more use of encryption, and
*absolutely not* about secret back doors or users' freedom, then you
would find it a better strategy not to copyleft.

But if you care about encouraging use of encryption, about
discouraging back doors, and about freedom for software users,
copyleft (such as the GNU GPL) is a good way of promoting all of these
goals together.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 12:29:05 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com
Subject: Re: ATTN: BlackNet, sog's keys 4 sale
In-Reply-To: <199810140141.DAA25717@replay.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 6:41 PM -0700 10/13/98, Anonymous wrote:
>Dear BlackNet,
>
>TOTO Enterprises, Bienfait, Saskatchewan hereby offers
>for sale sog's key under the BlackNet anonymous
>information market.
>
>Payments must be in anonymous ecash delivered to a
>digital dead drop to be arranged later.
>
>Or alternatively, we are willing to take bids in
>bottles of Scotch delivered to TOTO Key Escrow
>Services, Box 281, Bienfait, Saskatchewan SOC OMO.

Hey, I could tell you all that BlackNet was used a while back to distribute
some of the keys used by The Performance Artist Sometimes Known as Toto.

But that then might earn _me_ a subpoena, so I won't.

There are more things in cyberspace than are dreamt of in our religions,
Horatio Alger (hiss).

--Tim May

Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash.
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 04:52:59 +0800
To: ravage@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: Re: What it's like to get a subpoena (re Toto)
In-Reply-To: <199810131927.OAA07077@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <199810132014.VAA12469@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Jim Choate writes about his visit from IRS agents in relation to Toto.

Jim Choate writes:
> I was visited by two nicely mannerd IRS agents this morning. We
> talked for about an hour or so about Cypherpunks, CJ, Austin,
> majordomo, etc. In the process I was served with a subpoena from the
> Western District of Washington [...]
> 
> I explained how majordomo works, how to manipulate majordomo to get
> lists of subscribers (I used the SSZ subscriber list as an example),
> and described the time in July (I believe) when CJ/Toto/aka visited
> the local meeting. We also discussed the potential for altering
> email traffic through a remailer.

Perhaps they lack proof that the message in question was sent to the
list, very little is signed, and Toto surrounded himself with
forgeries.

Not that it makes much difference that I can see -- the issue is
surely whether CJ wrote the post, and whether the post and the AP
mockup constitutes a credible threat.  (That they apparently think
Toto's AP mockup was credible shows a lack of understanding).

> I've made it clear I have no problems answering their questions but
> have no desire to go to Seattle in Nov. or any other time. They are
> looking into whether a deposition given here would be sufficient for
> their needs. Until then I'm getting ready for a 2-3 day trip to
> Seattle in Nov.....

I don't see why they're bothering you, I wonder if the other majordomo
operators have received, or shortly will receive similar visits.

Perhaps we could send archive URLs to Jeff Gordon.

> I'm currently trying to decide whether to scan and post the subpoena
> on the SSZ webpage.

Sure please do.

> It's interesting that they requested archives of the list. 

I would have thought Jeff Gordon, the IRS agent investigating Toto,
would be subscribed to the list, at least via an alias.

Also, there are several operational cypherpunks list archives
remaining.

> Please don't call or send private email requesting further
> details. They didn't ask me to keep any of our discussion
> confidential but until I better understand what is going on I'm
> taking the conservative course (I had a big fight with myself about
> whether to even post this).

Well thanks for making it.  I say make it all public, FWIW.

Adam




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 12:38:13 +0800
To: John Young 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 6:31 PM -0700 10/13/98, John Young wrote:
>We'd like to get the affidavit, search warrants and complaint
>for the ex-NSA cryptanalyst, David Sheldon Boone, arrested
>for spying to see what the specific allegations are. See court
>docket below.
>
>News reports say he is being held in Alexandria, VA, so a
>lead to a legal doc retrieval service in that area would be
>appreciated.
>
>Or should anyone have the docket-listed docs, copies would be
>welcomed:

This focus on former list members is getting tiresome.

We knew him as Davy Boone, of course, and helped him develop new modes of
communication to undermine the state. The proprietary managerial techniques
he transferred to the Soviets, helping to turn them into Pointy Hair
Managers, hastened the collapse of the U.S.S.R.

Something all crypto anarchists should support.

And for this Davy Boone is being persecuted? Gimme a break.

We need more digital cutouts, not fewer.

--Tim May

Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash.
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 09:59:30 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Ex-NSA Cryptanalyst
Message-ID: <199810140139.VAA01903@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



We'd like to get the affidavit, search warrants and complaint 
for the ex-NSA cryptanalyst, David Sheldon Boone, arrested 
for spying to see what the specific allegations are. See court 
docket below. 

News reports say he is being held in Alexandria, VA, so a
lead to a legal doc retrieval service in that area would be
appreciated. 

Or should anyone have the docket-listed docs, copies would be 
welcomed:

Fax: 212-799-4003

Snail:

John Young
251 West 89th Street, Suite 6E
New York, NY 10024

Vox: 212-873-8700

X---------------------------------------------------------------------------X
PACER session date: Tuesday October 13, 1998 09:29:28 PM EST


Docket as of October 13, 1998 6:21 pm               Page 1

Proceedings include all events.
1:98m 882-ALL USA v. Boone

                       U.S. District Court
            Eastern District of Virginia (Alexandria)

            CRIMINAL DOCKET FOR CASE #: 98-M -882-ALL

USA v. Boone                                                Filed: 10/13/98
Dkt# in other court: None

Case Assigned to:  Magistrate Judge Theresa Carroll Buchanan

DAVID SHELDON BOONE (1)
     defendant

Defendant Assigned to:  Magistrate Judge W. Curtis Sewell

Pending Counts:

   NONE


Terminated Counts:

   NONE



Complaints                               Disposition

18:794(a) and 3238   Espionage



U. S. Attorneys:

  Charles Rosenberg
  [COR LD NTC]
  U.S. Attorney's Office
  2100 Jamieson Avenue
  Alexandria, VA 22314
  (703) 299-3700
  FTS 574-3700




Docket as of October 13, 1998 6:21 pm               Page 2

Proceedings include all events.
1:98m 882-ALL USA v. Boone

10/9/98  1       SEALED COMPLAINT as to David Sheldon Boone (avax)
                 [Entry date 10/13/98]

10/9/98  2       AFFIDAVIT by USA as to David Sheldon Boone  Re: [1-1]
                 complaint (avax) [Entry date 10/13/98]

10/9/98  3       MOTION by USA to Seal  search warrants [2-1] affidavit  by
                 USA, [1-1] complaint (avax) [Entry date 10/13/98]

10/9/98  4       ORDER as to David Sheldon Boone granting [3-1] motion by
                 USA to Seal  search warrants [2-1] affidavit  by USA, [1-1]
                 complaint as to David Sheldon Boone (1) ( Signed by
                 Magistrate Judge Theresa C. Buchanan )  Copies Mailed: yes
                 (avax) [Entry date 10/13/98]

10/9/98  --       Arrest WARRANT issued as to David Sheldon Boone (avax)
                 [Entry date 10/13/98]

10/13/98 5       ORDER as to David Sheldon Boone,  Unsealing Complaint
                 Search Warrants, and affidavit ( Signed by Magistrate
                 Judge W. C. Sewell )  Copies Mailed: yes (avax)
                 [Entry date 10/13/98]

10/13/98 --      Complaint unsealed as to David Sheldon Boone (avax)
                 [Entry date 10/13/98]

10/13/98 --      Initial appearance as to David Sheldon Boone  held  before
                 Magistrate Judge W. C. Sewell ( Tape #266.)  USA appeared
                 through: T. Connolly.  Dft(s) appeared through: w/attys;
                 Sinlair and Clark (Defendant informed of rights.)  US
                 motions for detention-granted.  Deft. waives PH reserves the
                 right to a bond hearing at a later date.  Deft. is remanded
                 to the custody of the USMS w/o bond pending action og the
                 GJ. (ntho) [Entry date 10/13/98] [Edit date 10/13/98]

10/13/98 6       Waiver of Preliminary Examination or Hearing by David
                 Sheldon Boone (ntho) [Entry date 10/13/98]

[END OF DOCKET: 1:98m 882-0]





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 05:16:42 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IRS wants cypherpunks archives
Message-ID: <199810132040.VAA12715@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Jeff, and fellow agents seem to be interested in cypherpunks archives
(as evidenced by asking Jim Choate who operates one of the mailing
list nodes, but who does _not_ offer archived list traffic).  Jeff is
Cc'd on this post to be helpful (who says cypherpunks aren't helpful
-- you only have to ask).

This archive seems to be operational:

	http://www.inet-one.com/cypherpunks/

And looks to cover the last year or so at least.

The one at minder.net says 0 items available:

	http://www.minder.net/cgi-bin/lwgate.cgi/CYPHERPUNKS/archives/	

so something appears wrong with that one (Brian?)

and Ryan's sof.mit.edu archive is down still since the disk crash.

Are there any others?

I do have a reasonable set of archives going back to May '96 in RMAIL
format, but am not too keen on mailing them due to bandwidth -- would
take a few hours at 28.8k baud.  (Also there seem to be some older
archives on Remo Pini's crypto CD, but I think they are too old to be
of interest to IRS).

Adam
-- 
print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<>
)]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Dave Emery :

> 	Anybody have any estimate as to how much actual strength this
> adds to DES ?

You might want to read "The Security of DESX" by Phillip Rogaway in
CryptoBytes Vol. 2 Number 2 (Summer 1996) pp 8-11, which is available
somewhere on RSADSI's web site  (possibly
 might be a good starting point) or the
underlying research paper "How to protect DES against exhaustive key
search" by Kilian and Rogaway in CRYPTO '96:

     [The] results don't say that it's impossible to build a machine
     which would break DESX in a reasonable amount of time.  But they
     do imply that such a machine would have to employ some radically
     new idea: it couldn't be a machine implementing a key-search
     attack, in the general sense which we've described.

(Quoted from the CryptoBytes article.)

>                How would one break it in a practical cracker machine ?

Maybe not at all; see above.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 11:10:22 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: INFO-RUSS: moving to Chicago... (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810140252.VAA09655@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:
>From INFO-RUSS-request@smarty.ece.jhu.edu Tue Oct 13 21:42:32 1998
Message-Id: <9810140035.AA02214@smarty.ece.jhu.edu>
Errors-To: INFO-RUSS-request@smarty.ece.jhu.edu
Sender: INFO-RUSS-request@smarty.ece.jhu.edu
From: MARGOL@newman.basnet.minsk.by
To: info-russ@smarty.ece.jhu.edu
Date:          Mon, 12 Oct 1998 11:18:47 +1200
Subject: INFO-RUSS: moving to Chicago...


---------------------------------------------------------------------
This is INFO-RUSS broadcast (1200+ subscribers). Home page, information, 
and archives: http://psi.ece.jhu.edu/~kaplan/IRUSS/inforuss.html
To post, or to subscribe/unsubscribe, mail to info-russ@smarty.ece.jhu.edu
INFO-RUSS assumes no responsibility for the information/views of its users.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi!

1. I am going to move in Chicago in the end of this year and I am 
looking for a job there.

Brief information: Belarussian State University (mathamatics dep.), 
Ph.D. in mathematics (algebra, arithmetic geometry) in 1995, during 
some period was interested in algebraic methods in the image 
processing, now dealing with mathematical (algebraic and partially 
statistical) methods in data security (cryptography), programming 
experience in Visual C++ 5.0 (C++, MFC, DB, ActiveX by MFC). I 
am ready to sent my CV, list of my papers, and any other detailed 
information needed. 

I am also looking for colleagues everywhere!

2. By the way, in some info-russ letters the problem of e-mail 
privacy was discussed. I would like to write some words on that 
topic. There is always a great risk that your envelope can be opened 
before its arrival. And there is the unique way to keep the privacy:
encrypt the letter before sending. It is especially important, if 
your letter contains your bank account number, credit card number and 
so on. The same situation takes place in case of e-mail. The 
cheapest, simplest, and most reliable way is to apply some 
cryptosystem (with either public or private key). Good cryptosystems 
are totally practically unbreakable. You can use coding programs 
built in your Internet browser, in your e-mail program or separate 
encrypting-decrypting programs (for example, PGP). Attention: the 
export of crypto programs is strictly forbidden by the american law. 
But everyone can get such programs by Internet on the European 
servers without any restrictions. Some nice helpful books on that 
topic: 
- "Personal Computer Security" by Ed Tiley (for users),
- "Internet Security Secrets" by John R. Vacca (both for users and 
                                                     specialists),
- "Handbook of Applied Cryptography" by Alfred Menezes and others 
                                                 (for specialists).
Best regards,
               Genady.

     MARGOL@newman.basnet.minsk.by




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Missouri FreeNet Administration 
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 12:24:29 +0800
To: "mail2news@basement.replay.com>
Subject: Gary Burnore vs. Earth (Was: Value of Annon. Remailers)
Message-ID: <01BDF6FA.C42BBEA0@noc.mfn.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





First off, let us state up front that this is an aside to the previous
poster, and not totally on-point: feel free to hit the delete key, and
accept our apologies if this is a problem.

About two months ago, we met the infamous Burnore & Company while 
defending a semi-annonymous UseNet poster calling himself "Outlaw-Frog-Raper".
It seems that in classical Burnore style "OFR" found himself the sudden
victim of [literally] daily TOS/SPAM complaints by Burnore and Co. for making
use of UseNet to air his decidedly anti-police positions (it's odd how "pro
police" Burnore is, isn't it?).  

	Obviously, as defenders of this man's right to post material offensive
to Burnore, we too came under attack.  Fortunately, we have been with
our upstream provider for a long time, and are on *very* good terms: they told
Burnore to keep his complaints to himself.  But I digress...

	As this "war" intensified, we attempted to determine just who in the hell
this lunatic *was*, as nobody here is a regular Usenet follower (just when
we have our slow periods, we'll check in with the loons to kill a couple of
hours...).  To our surprise, we discovered that while Burnore/Databasix/etc.
are known far and wide, the actual traffic that passes between them and the rest
of the Earthly population is pretty well eradicated.  Here's a guy who has actually
sat down and deleted (according to DejaNews) *tens of thousands* of his -own- posts!
Not to mention the unknown number of posts which he has "thoughtfully taken care of
for those others who forgot to do so themselves"...

	The point here is that what little survives about this lunatic child
molester (he has even successfully had his North Carolina Sex Offender record
removed!), has almost all come through *some* annonymizer.  Whether a MixMaster,
or Cajones (RIP) "intentional annonymizer", or an "unintentional annonymizer" 
such as a large [cypherpunks] listserv with "bad headers".

	We submit that it only takes one successful argument, even though there be
a million such arguments available, to "proof" the value of an annoymous remailer.
we then extend the original Burnore story (presented in part below) in further
support.

Yes, I know, at least half of you are sitting here going "now why did they
bother us with that?".  The answer is we feel VERY strongly that if not for
what [little] we were able to find as a result of A/R's, we would never have
been able to figure this clown out at all.  And loco though he may be, he is
also a *prodigious* pain in the ass, who represents a real, true threat to
what little freedoms we still have in the US.  Burnore isn't a loner in the
political sense: he's actually becoming pretty mainstream.  If A/R's can help
to keep scum like him in the light, where he can't hide his hypocrises [sp?]
through a cancel or "DejaNuke", then they are one of our most important national
resources, and should be defended (and *funded*) as such!

Just our [very biased] $.02 worth...

The full-time [yet totally volunteer] staff of Missouri FreeNet:

	J.A. Terranson, sysadmin@mfn.org
	John Blau, jb214@mfn.org
	Beatrice Hynes, beatrice@mfn.org
	Frescenne "M", support@mfn.org
	A. Pates, support@mfn.org


---------------------------------------------------------------------



Consider the episode last year with Gary Burnore and DataBasix vs.
Jeff Burchell and his Mailmasher and Huge Cajones machines.
Made-to-order abuse appeared right on cue to reinforce the claims
that Burnore and his girlfriend Belinda Bryan had made.  And now
we've learned the real truth behind the whole episode.  While Gary
Burnore was living with another girlfriend in Santa Clara, CA, he
was also molesting her teenaged daughter.  An anonymous
whistleblower attempted to warn the girl's mother as well as her
school officials by anonymous e-mail.  Burnore went ballistic and
falsely claimed "harassment".  But the whistleblower was ultimately
vindicated when Burnore pled guilty to the molestation charge, was
placed on probation, and was required to register as a sex offender.
Unable to silence the whistleblower, Burnore began a campaign of
harassment against the operators of the remailers that were being
used to expose him.  IOW, if you can't refute the message, shoot the
messenger.  And if you can't shoot the messenger, attempt to disable
his means of communication (the remailers net).

I recounted this case history, which can be researched in various
usenet archives by anyone interested, just to demonstrate that one
man's "harassment" can well be another man's investigative
journalism, even if the journalist or whistleblower is not in a
position to expose him/herself to retaliation by the wrongdoer,
which has been (coincidentally?) reported by virtually anyone who
has dared to challenge Gary Burnore publicly.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 05:13:08 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: What it's like to get a subpoena (re Toto)
Message-ID: <199810132044.WAA27037@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I haven't.

>I don't see why they're bothering you, I wonder if the other majordomo
>operators have received, or shortly will receive similar visits.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Nym 2 
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 08:15:40 +0800
To: "Bernie B. Terrado" 
Subject: Re: question
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <19981013224540.15380.qmail@serek.arch.pwr.wroc.pl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



"Bernie B. Terrado"  wrote:

> traceroute, is it effective as ping or finger.
> what other info would I have to know about it

ping just tells you that a host is reachable. finger gives you information
on who is logged in, which real name is associated to an address etc.
traceroute gives you a list of hosts that are used to connect from your
site to the other host. you can use traceroute and whois to figure out
where a host is located, who is their isp, etc.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 11:39:35 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Aaron Debunks Crypto Myths
Message-ID: <199810140316.XAA17126@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Crypto emissary David Aaron gave a speech today in
Germany boosting US encryption policy for privacy and
commerce. Says it's an insult to claim US intelligence 
agencies want backdoor access and other untrue myths:

   http://jya.com/aaron101398.htm

-----

Thanks to JM for pointing.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 18:52:14 +0800
To: Anonymous 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981014015357.00bbb580@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>  > Access to the DNA data base is permitted only for law enforcement
>  > purposes, with a $100,000 fine for unauthorized disclosures...

How long before somebody either subpoenas the database or
contests the use in a case in such a way as to drag the
entire contents through a court for a discovery process?


				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: celltel@mailexcite.com
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 18:24:41 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199810140951.CAA16815@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Hello!
This information is for those of you who make long 
distance calls FROM or TO overseas locations 
Worldwide, or who TRAVEL in the USA or Overseas.  
IF YOU ARE NOT INTERESTED, BE ASSURED YOU WILL NOT
RECEIVE ANY FURTHER MAILINGS FROM US.

           
            ARE YOU CURRENTLY ENJOYING THESE RATES??

Can You Call FROM these countries?
Can You Call TO these countries?
         At These Rates?
  United Kingdom @ 15˘/minute
  Sweden @ 18˘/minute
  Australia @ 22˘/minute
  Germany, or Netherlands @ 23˘/minute
  France @ 24˘/minute  
  Switzerland @ 25˘/minute
  Japan @ 36˘/minute
  Israel @ 37˘/minute
  Moscow @ 50˘/minute

These are just 10 examples of calling rates FROM these 
10 countries TO the USA or FROM the USA to these 10 countries!
You can call TO or FROM over 200 more countries to ANYWHERE.

You can also make calls out of your home or office in the USA
to anywhere in the world at the rates above, or you can call
anywhere in the USA AWAY of your USA home or office at 16 cents/minute.
There is no surcharge, no monthly fee, no minimums on this program
use, nor do you switch from your regular carrier to use this
service.

To Learn all about this service, and to obtain rates for 200 countries,
please write an email to CALLBACK@galaxymall.com. In the subject,
and body write SEND. You will receive information IMMEDIATELY.

Thank You!!

Regards,
Max Sklower, President
MS TELECOM, INC






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 18:46:20 +0800
To: SDN 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981014032345.00b67940@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 06:32 PM 10/13/98 -0700, SDN wrote:

>More relevant to the list, the threat model for the WebTV service/box is
>primarily concerned about loss of user data, forgotten passwords, and
>unsecured data over the public internet.  It's not worried about privacy
>from WebTV insiders.
>As a result, all user data is stored on the service, traffic to and from the
>box is encrypted, and data isn't hidden from the customer care people.

If it's not secure against insiders, then it's not only not secure against cops,
it's also not secure against crackers, unless Microsoft hsa let the
WebTV folks do a very good job of security.



				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 09:49:42 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: IP: ISPI Clips 5.35: F.B.I. Set to Begin Using National DNA Database
In-Reply-To: <199810132157.OAA10034@netcom13.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <199810140129.DAA24367@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



NICHOLAS WADE writes

  > Access to the DNA data base is permitted only for law enforcement
  > purposes, with a $100,000 fine for unauthorized disclosures...

Is this supposed to be good news, or bad?
As usual, those with the greatest ability to misuse the data --
and the greatest desire to do so -- control the database.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 10:01:25 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com
Subject: ATTN: BlackNet, sog's keys 4 sale
Message-ID: <199810140141.DAA25717@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Dear BlackNet,

TOTO Enterprises, Bienfait, Saskatchewan hereby offers
for sale sog's key under the BlackNet anonymous
information market.

Payments must be in anonymous ecash delivered to a
digital dead drop to be arranged later.

Or alternatively, we are willing to take bids in
bottles of Scotch delivered to TOTO Key Escrow
Services, Box 281, Bienfait, Saskatchewan SOC OMO.

Please find enclosed Son of Gomez's key.

Sincerely,

Toto

-----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE-----
Version: 2.6.2

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=MILa
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                          *** The Fire House Inn ***
                                 Come visit us
                               Telnet: fhouse.org
                                WWW:  fhouse.org
                                  *********** 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Brown, R Ken" 
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 20:41:46 +0800
To: mmotyka@lsil.com>
Subject: RE: DNA
Message-ID: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F84D3@MSX11002>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Mike Motyka wrote: 

> I'm not a biochemist 

Neither am I but I'm going to classes... 

> I think modern DNA analysis yields data that bear more 
> resemblance to a spectrum than anything else. In this 
> case there is always a good possibility for error.
>  Remember how large a project the Human Genome
> thing is? That is an actual sequencing project.

AFAIK police & courts don't  use actual sequencing but DNA "typing" or
"fingerprinting" - they extract certain well-known genes, a tiny subset
of all that are there, and compare them with reference samples. You
don't have to actually  "read" a gene to be able to match it with
another one.  The genes they used aren't ones that are expressed either.
They are if you like the "comments in the code".  Or more likely
graffitti because they don't seem to mean much.

You can't "prove" that a sample did come from a named individual, but
you can prove that it *didn't*. Which is why DNA testing has been
popular with defence lawyers in this country (UK) because it has been
used by the defence to get people released in a number of famous trials.
(There was one poor bloke who got let out of prison after over 20 years
when DNA typing showed he couldn't have committed the crime for which he
had been convivted. He hadn't been released on parole because to get
parole you have to show some contrition and he always claimed he was
innocent).

You can give a likelihood that a sample came from the same person as
another sample though. Or their twin, or parents et.c et.c. It's also
been used to get past our notoriously racist immigration officials. They
tend to assume that anyone coming into this country as the spouse or
parent of a citizen is lying (especially for Asians - they assume that
all marriage are arranged or "marriages of convenience" - for some
reason white Americans and especially Australians don't have nearly so
much trouble.). DNA typing has been used by immigrants to show that they
are (probably) the parent.

http://www.dartmouth.edu/~cbbc/courses/bio4/bio4-1997/KatieLachter.html
has some bumf about DNA evidence in US courts (you are much more
suspicios of it than we are)

http://www.emf.net/~iisme/actionplans/201.html has instructions for
do-it-yourself DNA typing! 
Unfortunatly  it requires equipment you are unlikely to have at home (&
do US universities  *really* issue such detailed instructions for lab
work? "Raise your hand. Move it over the pencil. Move it down until the
fingers are in contact with the pencil.  Close your fingers round the
pencil. Why is it important not to exert too much force with the
fingers? Pick up the pencil. Remember the point is sharp and may have
been exposed to potentially carcinogenic solvents. Do not stab any part
of yourself or any other student. Do not place the point near your eyes,
mouth or genitalia. Do not use the pencil in the presence of any minor
under the age of 18, or any vertebrate experimental animals, pets or
livestock. Do not hand the pencil to anyone not covered by the college's
insurance scheme or who has not signed the standard disclaimer form..."
OK, I exagerrate. But not much.)

Within 20 years techniques that are now restricted to university labs
and pharmeceutical companies will be available to the hobbyist. Maybe
bio-hacking will be as influential in our kids lives as computer-hacking
has been in ours.

> And pattern analysis will identify the guilty before they 
> even think about committing an offense. 
> Hell, they'll probably be able to ID the bad ones from 
> samples coerced/stolen at birth and then all future
>  opportunity and resource allocation will be effectively 
> decided by the government, inc.

Again, current methods don't identify genes just show how much they
resemble those of another sample. And they mostly use DNA that is not
transcribed anyway. So they tell you nothing about what a person looked
like.  Of course the stuff coming out of the genome project (which is
having the same effect on molecular biology that the cold war had on
rocket science, or the discovery of America on navigation, or the
railways had on steam technology) will probably change all that Real
Soon Now.  There are at least 3 or 4 new methiods that are being
introduced this year.

> Could it be that a single sample of DNA can be used
> to produce a large supply of that DNA which could then 
> be used to fabricate evidence? 

PCR can multiply the size of a sample many thousandfold in a day.

Ken Brown




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Brown, R Ken" 
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 21:09:44 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: RE: Two Jims, Werner and Matt redefine socialism for their own en ds
Message-ID: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F84D4@MSX11002>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> Matthew James Gering[SMTP:mgering@ecosystems.net]  replied to a long
> rant, as by "Martinus Luther":
> 
>> something like Belloc and Chesterton's "distributivism".

> Distribute what and created by whom? Need I point out the 
> obvious fallacy that wealth is a static sum. It is not, wealth
> must be *created* before it exists to plunder and share.

Every libertarian or cypherpunk ought to have read "The Servile State"
by Hilaire Belloc.   It is long polemic against socialism (or what
Belloc thought was Socialism),   the welfare state & so on.  Your ranter
obviously hads read the book, and in that context what is being
distributed is *land*, as private property to be lived on, farmed and
passed on to children. 

> Abstract wealth and divorce it from the creator and you 
> eliminate the motive to create. You can only live from plundered
>  wealth so long before you slip into oblivion (see the Soviet Union).

I think Belloc would agree with you 100%. 
See http://www.cs.wesleyan.edu/HTML/Grad_links/mdemarco/gkc/distrib/ for
links to pages on Distributivism.  

Distributivism  is usually regarded as a right-wing, conservative
political philosophy.  Chesterton and Belloc didn't invent it but they
popularised it. It derived partly from a distaste for the State,
industry, trade unions and the modern  world in general; partly from an
admiration of traditional rural life; partly from the English Christian
Socialism of the 19th century & partly from the Biblical idea of the
Jubilee, when debts were cancelled  and the land redivided amongst the
families of the tribe.   It is based on the idea that only free men who
own their own land and house really have a stake in society or a chance
at a good life. So in an ideal world ownership of property would be
distributed as widely as possible (hence the name). 

Distributivists,  always a  small an uninfluential group, are divided as
to how this desirable state of affairs can be brought about. 

Some want to achieve it gradually, through education and legislation and
an increasing influence of the Roman Catholic church. These ones,
following in the footsteps of Belloc (an ultra-nationalist, an
anti-semite & in his old age a grumpy bigot), drifted farther and
farther  to the right, often becoming little different from Fascists.
Recently they have become associated with the "Third Way"  (i.e neither
Socialism not Capitalism) a confused mish-mash of political positions
that probably started as a self-justification by some milder Fascists
but is now associated with Tony Blair and the British "New Labour"
government.

Some other Distributivists thought that the people should rise up and
occupy the land, taking it from its current owners, whether the rich or
the state. This philosophy is pretty indistinguishable from the English
far-left Socialism of people like William Morris, drawing inspiration
from agrarian revolts throughout history from the Peasant's Revolt to
Gerard Winstanley and the Diggers. It isn't very different - apart from
its explicitly Christian roots -  from the Syndicalism of Joe Hill and
the wobblies, or the position of some modern-day Left Anarchists such as
the ones associated with the Solidarity Federation. They often say the
same things, using different jargon. (The Distributivists looked
backward to the middle ages & mainly talked about land, agriculture and
small crafts. When they paid any attention to industry, other than to
say they didn't like it, they made vague handwavings about "guilds",
i.e. local  trade-based co-operatives, owning factories. The
Syndicalists looked forward to the 20th century, and were mainly
interested in industry. When they bothered to talk about agriculture
they wanted land farmed in small plots each by an owner occupier - "3
acres and a cow" again - except that in America where everything has to
be bigger they made it "30 acres and a cow") To be honest it isn't that
different from the position of a lot of Old Labour lefties like me -
except we aren't revolutionaries either which leaves us in a bit of a
fix...

Chesterton was never a Socialist and probably never a revolutionary  but
he was often a Liberal (in the English sense) and was at least on
speaking terms with Socialists and Anarchists (of whose politics he
disapproved greatly)

If you haven't read "The Servile State" you should.

In fact if you haven't read Belloc you should. Not a great writer, not
always even a good one, but very, very interesting. Of course I'm
biased. In the early years of this century Belloc and Chesterton  (&
many other writers such as Henry James,  Rudyard Kipling,  S. Fowler
Wright (you really have to be weird to remember him), E.C. Benson and
A.A. Milne (the Hundred Acre Wood is just 20 miles from where I was
born))  were almost fanatical admirers of my own home county of Sussex
in England :-)  And they  wrote some really OTT poetry to show how good
it all was.


Ken Brown (about as off-topic as you can get on a Tuesday).




The South Country

    When I am living in the Midlands 
      That are sodden and unkind, 
    I light my lamp in the evening: 
      My work is left behind; 
    And the great hills of the South Country 
      Come back into my mind. 

    The great hills of the South Country 
      They stand along the sea; 
    And it's there walking in the high woods 
      That I could wish to be, 
    And the men that were boys when I was a boy 
      Walking along with me. 

    The men that live in North England 
      I saw them for a day: 
    Their hearts are set upon the waste fells, 
      Their skies are fast and grey; 
    From their castle-walls a man may see 
      The mountains far away. 

    The men that live in West England 
      They see the Severn strong, 
    A-rolling on rough water brown 
      Light aspen leaves along. 
    They have the secret of the Rocks, 
      And the oldest kind of song. 

    But the men that live in the South Country 
      Are the kindest and most wise, 
    They get their laughter from the loud surf, 
      And the faith in their happy eyes 
    Comes surely from our Sister the Spring 
      When over the sea she flies; 
    The violets suddenly bloom at her feet, 
      She blesses us with surprise. 

    I never get between the pines 
      But I smell the Sussex air; 
    Nor I never come on a belt of sand 
      But my home is there. 
    And along the sky the line of the Downs 
      So noble and so bare. 

    A lost thing could I never find, 
      Nor a broken thing mend: 
    And I fear I shall be all alone 
      When I get towards the end. 
    Who will there be to comfort me 
      Or who will be my friend? 

    I will gather and carefully make my friends 
      Of the men of the Sussex Weald; 
    They watch the stars from silent folds, 
      They stiffly plough the field. 
    By them and the God of the South Country 
      My poor soul shall be healed. 

    If I ever become a rich man, 
      Or if ever I grow to be old, 
    I will build a house with deep thatch 
      To shelter me from the cold, 
    And there shall the Sussex songs be sung 
      And the story of Sussex told. 

    I will hold my house in the high wood 
      Within a walk of the sea, 
    And the men that were boys when I was a boy 
      Shall sit and drink with me. 

Matilda

Matilda told such Dreadful Lies,
It made one Gasp and Stretch one's Eyes;
Her Aunt, who, from her Earliest Youth,
Had kept a Strict Regard for Truth,
Attempted to Believe Matilda:
The effort very nearly killed her,
And would have done so, had not She
Discovered this Infirmity.
For once , towards the Close of Day,
Matilda, growing tired of play
And finding she was left alone,
Went tiptoe to the Telephone,
And summoned the Immediate Aid
Of London's Noble Fire-Brigade.
Within an hour the Gallant Band
Were pouring in on every hand,
>From Putney,Hackney Downs, and Bow
With Courage high and Hearts a-glow
They galloped, roaring through the Town,
`Matilda's House is Burning Down!'
Inspired by British Cheers and Loud
Proceeding from the Frenzied Crowd,
They ran their ladders through a score
Of windows on the Ball Room Floor;
And took Peculiar Pains to Souse
The Pictures up and down the House,
Until Matilda's Aunt succeeded
In showing them they were not needed;
And even then she had to pay
To get the Men to go away!

It happened that a few Weeks later
Her Aunt was off to the Theatre
To see that Interesting Play
The Second Mrs Tanqueray.
She had refused to take her Niece
To hear this Entertaining Piece:
A Deprivation Just and Wise
To Punish her for Telling Lies.
That Night a Fire did break out -
You should have heard Matilda Shout!
You should have heard her Scream and Bawl,
And throw the window up and call
To People passing in the Street -
(The rapidly increasing Heat
Encouraging her to obtain
Their confidence) - but all in vain!
For every time She shouted `Fire!'
They only answered `Little Liar'!
And therefore when her Aunt returned,
Matilda, and the House, were Burned.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "X" 
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 22:39:43 +0800
Subject: RE: DNA
In-Reply-To: <8025669D.002F7404.00@seunt002e.ssa.co.uk>
Message-ID: <000401bdf77a$fe720d00$932580d0@xasper8d>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



DNA of identical siblings is identical?  I guess that makes sense, since
we're really split after conception...  so explain why my brother has smooth
hands and fingers with almost no prints (lucky bastard!) and mine look like
mother teresa's face... (probably more now than before, eh?)

X

~> -----Original Message-----
~> From: owner-cypherpunks@minder.net
~> [mailto:owner-cypherpunks@minder.net]On Behalf Of
~> Richard.Bragg@ssa.co.uk
~> Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 1998 2:44 AM
~> To: mmotyka@lsil.com
~> Cc: cypherpunks@toad.com
~> Subject: RE: DNA
~>
~>
~> DNA testing can never prove anything.  It can rule out someone completely
~> and statistically make it
~> very unlikely to be anyone else.  But what about identical
~> sib's.  They all
~> have exactly the same DNA!
~>
~> There are cases of such children where one becomes a pillar of
~> society and
~> the other less so.
~>
~> A DNA database would allow loads of stuff to be done.  How about
~> a designed
~> disease or toxin that
~> only affects certain gene carriers.  This could be added to the
~> food chain
~> at any time you wanted
~> to incapacitate a particular person or group of people without
~> comprimising
~> any one else.
~>
~> Fun hmmm!!!
~>
~>
~>




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Gillogly 
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 23:52:56 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: ATTN: BlackNet, sog's keys 4 sale
Message-ID: <3624BFD1.7BB0BF77@acm.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Adam Back writes:
> Type Bits/KeyID    Date       User ID
> pub   384/5A5AD16B 1994/02/11 *** KEY REVOKED ***
>                               BlackNet
>
> A revoked key, and a rather small key size, this rings a bell, some of
> you may recall that some time ago Paul Leyland factored that key.

For the record, that key was factored by a team consisting of Paul Leyland,
Arjen Lenstra, Alec Muffett, and Jim Gillogly.

-- 
	Jim Gillogly
	23 Winterfilth S.R. 1998, 15:10
	12.19.5.10.16, 7 Cib 9 Yax, Ninth Lord of Night




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Martin Minow 
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 09:15:48 +0800
To: Adam Back 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Adam Back  notes that the "Toto death thread"
posting was signed using the "son of Gomer" Blacknet key that
was broken by Paul Leyland (read through the past few days of the
archives to get the context).

Adam notes: "Implications?  Others had CJs keys?  Toto is someone
other than CJ?"

One other implication to consider: you might be able to attain
semi-deniability by siging a message with a key that is breakable
by an adversity with govermental resources (to use an euphamism)
but not by an ordinary, presumably less motivated, cracker.

I.e., when "they" arrest you for "speaking truth to kings," your
lawyer claims that, because the signing key was weak, the
government had forged the message and key in order to attack
you for your otherwise legal political views.

Of course, I'm probably just being paranoid.

Martin Minow
minow@pobox.com








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 22:54:29 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: THE BATTLE FOR AMERICA'S SOUL
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Delivered-To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 00:27:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: 
To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
Subject: IP: THE BATTLE FOR AMERICA'S SOUL
MIME-Version: 1.0
Sender: owner-ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
Precedence: list
Reply-To: 


*****NOTE******
The following article is intended for those who have attention
spans and the abilitiy to focus and reason beyond 30 second
sound-bites. If you are only capable of reading 30 lines of text
of disjointed sloganisms and cliches, I would recommend you simply
hit the delete key now and thanks for your time. For those who choose
to actually fully read and think about the article below, I believe
you'll find the arguments are well developed, forceful, compelling
and exquisitly reasoned. I found the arguments presented in the
article below as relevent and thought provoking as Fredric Bastiat's
The Law, which is available at; http://www.jim.com/jamesd/bastiat.htm
Bastiat's The Law was penned almost one hundred and fifty years before
the article below.- Harley
**************

Source:  http://www.founding.org/tbfasshortversion.html

                         THE BATTLE FOR AMERICAS SOUL

                               By Balint Vazsonyi

   For thirty years now, the Liberal-Conservative debate has been raging
   in our country. Some of the participants bring to mind a passage from
   Dostoyevskys Crime and Punishment. Raskolnikov, while delirious in the
   Siberian prison hospital, has a recurring dream. In it, the whole
   world had been condemned to a terrible and strange plague. Some new
   sorts of microbes began to afflict people. "Men attacked by them," he
   writes, "became at once mad and furious. But never had men considered
   themselves so intellectual and so completely in possession of the
   truth as these sufferers, never had they considered their decisions,
   their scientific conclusions, their moral convictions so
   infallible..."

   One hundred-and-thirty years after those lines were written, it is
   disquieting to see just such "sufferers" among us today. Are we
   participants in a debate or are we fighting a virus? The following is
   an attempt to find some answers to sort out the sides, their origins,
   their purpose.

                            THE QUESTION THAT MATTERS

   Scholars on both sides suggest that, during the 1960s, the original
   principles on which America was founded came to be interpreted in
   entirely new ways. It was this new understanding, so the suggestion
   goes, which led to fundamental changes in our thinking, our language,
   our institutions. Among other things, this altered reading also
   accounts for the radical shift in the meaning of the term, "Liberal."

   Is the national debate indeed a dialogue between two competing
   interpretations of what we shall call the American Construct? That,
   without a doubt, is the question that matters. If it is, then the word
   "debate" is entirely appropriate. If it is, then neither side can lay
   claim to the 'Truth.' If it is, then the more power to the winners may
   they alternate frequently, as behooves a democracy.

   Before we can decide, we need to remind ourselves of our spiritual and
   philosophical roots. We use the term American Construct here to
   represent the compendium of ideas and principles which issued from
   Franklins Poor Richard, Jeffersons Declaration of Independence, the
   U.S. Constitution, The Federalist Papers of Hamilton and Madison, all
   the way to the Bill of Rights. In order to qualify as indigenous,
   ideas and practices ought to be traceable to, or at least compatible
   with, the American Construct. The following key areas suggest some
   early answers.

     * The Constitution does not provide for Group Rights. Yet, a
       steadily growing number of groups is being granted an increasing
       number of rights.
     * Defense, for which the Constitution does provide, has been
       surrounded by an atmosphere of derision and hostility; the
       effectiveness of our armed forces is being diminished through
       inappropriate use.
     * Of the three branches of government, Congress is entrusted with
       the powers to legislate. Neither the Executive nor the Judiciary
       should presume such powers, yet both have done so with increasing
       frequency.
     * The constitutional guarantee for the freedom of speech becomes
       moot if the vocabulary is controlled by codes, regulations and
       punitive practices.
     * The protection of private property is no longer guaranteed if the
       Executive Branch can confiscate it under the pretext of arbitrary
       regulation.
     * Education used to be based on the best available information, the
       consensus of generations, and rewards designed to extract the best
       effort from all participants. Currently, information is being
       replaced by propaganda, consensus by the whim and din of activist
       groups, best effort by primitive egalitarianism.
     * Americans were supposed to be judged based on what they could do.
       Their prospects are now contingent on what (not even who) they
       are.
     * Morality and decency in human relations which once governed our
       society are being displaced by doctrines which do not, even,
       recognize the existence of values; the spirit of voluntarism is
       being choked by coercion.

   Accordingly, the argument that we are conducting a discourse within
   the American Construct cannot be sustained. That being the case, the
   alternative must be considered. If the debate has not been generated
   from within, it must be one between our own preexisting principles and
   ideas which are foreign in origin. Foreign ideas may be benign or
   hostile. Given the foregoing, as well as the ferocity of the assault
   over the past three decades, there is every reason to assume that they
   are the latter. If so, the very existence of our country, as we know
   it, is at stake. It is therefore of the utmost urgency to seek
   detailed answers to the question that matters.

   To begin with, new ideas are exceedingly rare. We may safely assume
   that most ideas, however differently they might be packaged, have been
   around for some time. The doctrines currently waging their battle
   inside America are likely to be old acquaintances, not brainstorms of
   the 1960s. There is some advantage to be derived: exploring the
   history and curriculum of old ideas provides clues about the path they
   are likely to follow again and again. As we encounter the alarming
   similarities between the so-called Liberal agenda and the practices of
   past regimes, there may be emotional barriers to overcome. How could
   decent, ordinary Americans take their cue from precedents they reject
   and abhor on a conscious level? Yet the facts speak for themselves.

                               BOLSHEVISM FASCISM

   The conventional view, notwithstanding the Hitler-Stalin pact of 1939,
   is that Communism and Nazism were opposites one on the extreme left,
   the other on the extreme right. At the time of the Spanish Civil War
   of 1936, Americans fell victim to the propaganda that Communists and
   Fascists ("Nazi" and "Fascist" will be discussed below) were enemies.
   In addition, the countless distinguished personalities who joined the
   North American Committee to Aid Spanish Democracy created the illusion
   that Communists were 'on the side of righteousness.' Unbeknownst to
   them, the Communist Party ran the entire organization.

   Rather than enemies, Nazism and Communism were the ultimate
   competitors. Each wanted to conquer and rule both over the physical
   world, and over the minds of people. The methods which were developed
   and implemented for the control of behavior took many forms, not all
   of them obvious or even unpleasant when dispensed in small doses. Yet
   they strike at the heart of human relations; they also severe the link
   between cause and effect, so essential in developing an individual's
   viability.

   First, we need to remind ourselves of key words which, in common
   usage, have taken on different connotations: Fascism, Nazism,
   Communism. Webster defines Fascism and Nazism in almost identical
   terms: "a centralized autocratic severely national regime;"
   "regimentation of industry, commerce and finance;" "rigid censorship,
   forcible suppression of opposition." The definition of Communism
   begins with "common ownership of assets." The subheading Bolshevism,
   however, resembles the wording applied to Fascism and Nazism. Webster
   comes remarkably close, but no fully-satisfactory definitions exist.
   In truth, they are simply so many variants of Socialism, and Marx
   himself was already at pains while writing the Communist Manifesto in
   1848 to sort out the different kinds of Socialism.

   Initially, there appears to be a distinction between "National
   Socialism" (the German and Italian varieties) and "International
   Socialism" (the Russian Model), based on the difference in agendas as
   stated by the parties themselves. Reality, however, gives rhetoric the
   lie. Albeit without the Nuremberg Laws or prescribed physical
   characteristics, "The Soviet Man" was made the object of enforced
   worship just the same as was the Aryan hero - nothing international
   about that. Not even in the approach to the fundamental Marxian issue
   of ownership can we observe a substantial difference: The Program of
   the National Socialist German Workers' Party (the full name of the
   Nazi party) demands "the nationalization of all business enterprises
   that have been organized into corporations." A realistic examination
   of these seemingly opposite systems reveals them as mirror images,
   aspiring to a similar objective, applying identical methods, achieving
   comparable subjugation of people under their control, and pursuing the
   same enemies.

   Objective. The agenda underlying all operations calls for unlimited
   discretionary powers to be concentrated in the hands of a small,
   self-perpetuating group in which membership is by invitation only.
   Members of the group typically fall into two categories. One of these
   claims to know what is best for all people; the other simply wants
   unchecked power. The synergy is perfect: Ideologues need terrorists to
   retain physical control; terrorists need ideologues to supply
   intermittent explanations for the rule they maintain. It is only
   natural that the objectives include an effort to expand the number of
   those over whom power is exerted.

   Given the ultimate objective of concentrating all power in the hands
   of a single group, competing formations calling themselves "Fascist,"
   "Nazi," "Communist," "Bolshevik," or "Maoist" must fight it out until
   only one of them remains operative, hence the insistence on being
   'different.'

   Methods. (The reader is asked to compare these to present-day
   practices.) As well as control of the military and the police,
   successful exercise of power requires control of key institutions to
   replace or supplement brute force. The checklist includes news sources
   especially of the visual variety education, the judiciary, labor
   organizations, arts and entertainment, as well as a parental
   relationship between government and the governed. Required, also, is
   the attribution of infallibility at the top. A human replaces the
   object of religious worship, just as holiday celebrations of a
   political nature replace religious ones. Replacement of another kind
   is the renaming of streets, towns, institutions. The purpose is to do
   away with reminders of the past thus discontinuing history and to
   provide constant reminders of the present.

   The practice of discontinuing history is indispensable. Successive
   generations must be devoid of traditions and prevented from comparing
   past and present. It also 'justifies' revision of the entire academic
   curriculum, so that no subject would accidentally provide accurate
   information about history. While adults need the threat of punishment
   in order to 'forget' what they had learned, information can simply be
   withheld from young people and/or manipulated before it reaches them.

   Youth organizations were created with compulsory membership - except
   when exclusion was chosen as an instrument of humiliation. Hitler
   Youth, Komsomol, Pioneers put people in uniform at a young age,
   ensured their early allegiance to The Leader, and placed them under
   the command of a political appointee whose prerogative superseded that
   of both the parental home and the school. Finally, learned faculties
   were placed under the control of political operatives with little or
   no education.

   The corruption of education was matched by the corruption of the legal
   system. This required judges who would subordinate both their natural
   and learned sense of justice to what was declared to be "the higher
   interest of the community." For an example we quote marching orders
   issued by Hans Frank, President of the Academy of German Law and of
   the National Bar Association in the Third Reich:

   "The basis for interpreting all legal sources is the National
   Socialist Philosophy, especially as expressed in the party program..."

   Thus was born the concept of the political activist judge who wore the
   robe as no less a uniform than the black shirt or the red shirt.

   Controlling the behavior of the adult population required the most
   sophisticated approach, if outright terror was to be relaxed to any
   extent. Although Lenin and Stalin pointed the way and Mao Tse-Tung
   achieved the ultimate by making one billion people wear the same
   clothes, it was the Germans ever the theorists who supplied the
   terminology for the first tool. They called it "Gleichschaltung,"
   which verbatim means "switching to being the same." The program called
   for total alignment with the goals of Nazi policies and placed
   everyone on the same level, creating the ultimate degree of
   conformity.

   Gleichschaltung operated at once on structural and cultural levels.
   Structurally, the first victim was federalism: Within days of Hitler's
   accession, the states had to cede authority to the central government.
   Next, the leadership and membership of every kind of organization had
   to become politically and racially correct. While a variety of
   agencies had the task of implementing the structural changes, as early
   as March 1933 a separate Cabinet Department was created for Josef
   Goebbels to oversee every aspect of the cultural scene, making certain
   that it was politically correct. Specific terms aside, the reality of
   all these regimes is the great flattening of society which is in full
   progress from day one. It is astonishing and frightening how little
   time it took both in Russia and in Germany to accomplish this task.
   Indeed, it should be noted that demolishing what centuries had built
   does not require even a single generation.

   The other tool had to do with groups. While it may appear
   contradictory to identify groups in a society having just experienced
   Gleichschaltung, contradictions do not represent obstacles in a
   totalitarian structure. Placing the emphasis on groups was as
   necessary as the leveling had been: It facilitated positive and
   negative imaging. This constant dichotomy of egalitarianism and group
   hatred provided a manipulative tool as simple as it was ingenious.
   Hitler used race and nationality, Lenin and Stalin mostly class the
   outcome was the same.

   Subjugation. (Please continue the comparison with current tendencies.)
   It is commonly known that the Gestapo was a state within the State, as
   was the Cheka/GPU/NKVD/KGB establishment. Their responsibility was not
   merely control but the maintenance of a permanent state of fear. Yet
   internal security organs, however large, could not by themselves see
   to that. Therefore, in one sense or another everyone was recruited to
   be an agent of fear. In Nazi Germany, as in Soviet Russia, children
   were encouraged to inform on their parents, neighbors on each other.
   Very soon it became a matter of reporting someone before someone
   reported you. It was possible to be reported for virtually anything,
   so that people grew fearful of doing or saying everyday, ordinary
   things. One could never be safe from somebody 'putting a spin' on the
   most innocent act or remark.

   Enemies. Whereas democracies associate enemies with physical attack or
   the threat thereof, both Nazism and Communism required at all times
   the existence of enemies, internal and external. The array of internal
   enemies would suggest a certain difference: Jews for the Nazis, "Class
   Enemies" for the Bolsheviks. However, the Russians had anti-Jewish
   pogroms long before Hitler and, later, significant numbers of Jews
   were exiled or killed as "exploiters." The aristocracy was looked upon
   just as much an enemy by the Nazis who were, after all, Socialists.
   The Church was regarded as an enemy by both, partly because it
   advocated morality, and because it, too, required allegiance and
   obedience and attitude reserved exclusively for The Party. "National
   Socialist and Christian concepts are irreconcilable," so Martin
   Bormann begins the Third Reich's definitive statement on the subject.
   Yet, it is in the realm of Nazism's and Bolshevism's external enemies
   that examination proves the most revealing. Experience confirms that
   the primary enemy in the eyes of Nazis and Communists alike was the
   English-speaking world, in all its manifestations.

   In my native Hungary, where Soviet occupation followed Nazi
   occupation, typically the same henchmen jailed the same persons for
   the same offense: Listening to an English-language broadcast whether
   in 1944 or in 1952. The reasons are obvious. To all those who would
   take over the world, Great Britain and the United States have been the
   main impediment. Philip II of Spain and Napoleon had known that
   already; Hitler and Stalin had to learn it anew. Neither German
   technological genius nor Soviet numerical advantage was sufficient to
   carry the day against Anglo-American resolve, because it was backed by
   principles, attitudes and traditions which had brought forth stable,
   productive, peacefully-evolving societies. And since language is the
   carrier of ideas, English words were perceived to be as menacing as
   Spitfire interceptors or nuclear submarines. The power of seminally
   English phrases like "My home is my castle" or "Innocent until proven
   guilty" is awesome. The strenuous efforts by Liberals to diminish the
   presence of English in contemporary America furnish additional proof.

                        WHAT'S 'RIGHT' WHAT'S 'POSSIBLE'

   The epoch-making contributions of Germans from Luther to Goethe, from
   Bach to Wagner, from Gutenberg to Zeiss reveal a great similarity
   across the centuries, across the various fields of endeavor. From
   Luther's 'nailing his 95 Theses to the door' through Bach's The Art of
   the Fugue and Goethe's Faust to Wagner's Gesamtkunstwerk, the observer
   beholds the German tendency and capacity for seeking and creating the
   absolute, the all-encompassing, the ultimate. When applied to
   philosophy, this same tendency gave birth to Kant who declared his
   chief work free from error. He was followed by Hegel, who more or less
   declared the end of history. By this juncture, German philosophy had
   established its lineage all the way back to Plato, and regarded itself
   sole heir to the search for what is right. From that point onward, a
   seemingly endless succession of German thinkers, in a mostly
   descending sequence of brilliance and/or morality, began to convert
   philosophy into Social Dogma. Social Dogma is based on a simple
   assumption: That certain people know better what is best for all other
   creatures, and that such people possess the right to enforce their
   'enlightened' beliefs because they shall lead the rest of us to a
   'perfect' world.

   Taking his cue, perhaps, from what had begun in 1215 at Runnymede, it
   was John Locke who (nearly five hundred years later) identified and
   settled for attainable goals. He and Adam Smith seem to have broken
   with the two-thousand-year-old search for what is 'right,' and
   substituted an inquiry into that which is possible. It would be
   consistent with the previous argument to suggest that the sober
   modesty of Locke and Smith was as much a reflection on British
   temperament as Kant or Hegel was on the German. Be that as it may, the
   astonishing influence of their thought is comparable only to the
   success of the societies which paid attention to them. Without
   diminishing the significance of Locke's lasting pronouncements on the
   limited role of government, the separation of powers, the relationship
   of the individual to the community, or the full roster of civil
   liberties, one is tempted to say that his genius lay in the very
   acceptance of certain limitations, which is at the heart of his Essay
   Concerning Human Understanding. Free from what Friedrich Hayek calls
   the "fatal conceit," Locke presents his chief work fully cognizant of
   inconsistencies, perhaps to signal that these are forever inherent in
   the human condition.

                              MONOLOGUES DIALOGUES

   It took another hundred years before Nietzsche would declare God
   "dead" but, by claiming to be free from error, Kant began what amounts
   to a monologue. Hegel and Marx continued the practice of dispensing
   monologues. By the time Marx appeared on the scene, German thinkers
   had succeeded in seizing center-stage from the French. Social Dogma
   was now ready to embark on the effort of replacing Christianity as the
   dominant religion, hence its first conquest in Russia where only a new
   orthodoxy was capable of upstaging the old one. Russia had produced no
   thinkers of its own and was in desperate need of alternatives. Yet,
   there may have been deep-seated reasons in Germany itself. After
   centuries of struggle for a consolidated German state, after centuries
   of religious contention between Catholics and Protestants, between
   Lutherans and Calvinists, the perceived need for a set of finite
   doctrines was approaching crisis levels. Social Dogma provided all
   answers, bypassed or eliminated 'troublesome' individual rights, and
   throve on group hostility. Because it does not accommodate contrary
   opinion and rules by decree without room for discussion, it must lead
   to intrusive government the ultimate embodiment of The Monologue.
   Where it ran its full course, it gave the world leaders like Lenin,
   and his two stellar disciples: Stalin and Hitler.

   By contrast, the founding of the United States of America occurred
   amidst a series of dialogues. Most notable among these was the
   long-standing disagreement between Jefferson and Hamilton. They and
   their contemporaries managed to divine from their studies of other
   societies an uncommon understanding of human nature. Postulating moral
   foundations as a given, these men created a framework which sought to
   limit secular laws, rules and regulations to the necessary minimum.
   They recognized that the fewer the rules, the broader the potential
   agreement. Broad agreement, in turn, results in less strife. Less
   strife leaves people free to create and accomplish. The fewer
   obstacles placed in the path of individuals, the less energy wasted in
   trying to overcome them. Nevertheless, they left the doors wide open
   for the continuation of the dialogue, enshrined in the American
   Construct as the system of checks and balances.

                             PRODUCTION DISTRIBUTION

   Adam Smith sets the agenda at the outset of his The Wealth of Nations
   by discussing production and productivity. It is a study of constantly
   accumulating wealth, providing increased access to a growing number of
   participants. On the opposite side, Marx's chief argument concerns
   "surplus value" and to whom it ought to belong. (In fact, he presumes
   to determine to whom anything may belong.) From the outset, Social
   Dogma concentrates on distribution. Socialism is defined as
   distribution of the national product based on individual performance,
   Communism as distribution of the national product based on individual
   need. Social Dogma is unable even to think in terms of production, of
   increased availability. Instead, it is obsessed with the distribution
   of what it considers a finite quantity of goods.

   A review of the past thirty years in the United States will confirm
   these findings. American Liberals have concentrated solely on
   distribution. Emphasis was shifted from opportunity to entitlement.
   Instead of increased productivity, Liberal efforts are always directed
   toward increasing demands. These demands are for unearned
   participation in, and distributions from, the accomplishments of those
   who produce the nation's goods tangible and intangible. Those who
   would resist are branded with pejorative labels no self-respecting
   American is able to bear.

   Agendas of confiscation and of arbitrary distribution result in a
   downward spiral. With incentives shrinking, less and less is produced,
   consequently there is less and less to distribute. This, in a
   nutshell, is why welfare states invariably increase poverty.

                              MINORITIES MAJORITIES

   Were it sensible and desirable in and of itself, 19th century German
   Social Dogma would still be irrelevant for the United States. It was
   devised under conditions and with societies in mind in which a
   minority enjoyed a high standard of living, while the circumstances of
   the "overwhelming majority" (in the words of Marx) were in urgent need
   of improvement. By the time Social Dogma launched its all-out assault
   on the American Construct during the mid-1960s the overwhelming
   majority of Americans had come to enjoy a higher standard of living
   than members of any previous society. How, then, was it possible for
   this patently alien, irrelevant doctrine to pervade our thinking, our
   language, our institutions?

   Social Dogma persuades its intended victims that it has people's best
   interest in mind, that it seeks peace, justice, and equality, that it
   is motivated by caring and compassion. Its ability to camouflage true
   intent and adapt to a specific scenario is matchless. It never admits
   to prohibiting freedom of speech; instead, it masquerades in the Third
   Reich as "allegiance to the Fuhrer," in the Soviet realm as "class
   struggle," in the United States as "politically correct vocabulary."
   It never admits to obstructing the path of the talented; instead, it
   decrees purification of the race (Third Reich), leadership of the
   proletariat (Soviet Union), affirmative action (United States). It
   never admits to confiscating the property of those who had succeeded;
   instead, it claims to recover "what the Jews had plundered" (Third
   Reich), to establish national ownership (Soviet Union), to protect the
   environment (United States).

   A convergence of unusual circumstances rendered Americans receptive,
   among them the ennui of the affluent, the Vietnam debate, the new
   preoccupation with clean water and air, the Civil Rights movement.
   Along with its staples of "peace," "social justice," and all-round
   'goodness,' Social Dogma promised unlimited and unrestricted sex.
   Soon, an entire generation of Americans was convinced that their own
   existing ideals and aspirations blended naturally with Social Dogma,
   which merely expressed them in 'more precise and more global terms.'
   Thus, the interpretation of the Vietnam conflict was switched. No
   longer an effort by the Free World to contain Communist expansion, it
   became "the just struggle of a small people against the mighty
   Imperialists." The rising tide of legitimate concern for America's
   Blacks was harnessed to brand every person of white skin with the
   indelible stigma of racism, thereby eliminating any prospect of a
   resolution. The genuine compassion Americans feel toward the less
   fortunate was corrupted into the agenda of redistribution. Academic
   freedom in our universities was turned into a weapon to stifle
   academic freedom, just as Martin Heidegger Hitler's first appointee as
   University President, and still an object of academic worship in
   America had demanded in 1933. With utter disregard for the American
   experience which had proven the very opposite of Social Dogma at every
   turn, the minds of an entire generation were taken over completely,
   producing several million unwitting Fellow Travelers. Today, it is
   that same generation which performs mind-snatching on successive
   generations of children.

   They are stealing childhood from our children who are commandeered on
   the streets to march against ballot items they cannot possibly
   comprehend. Boys and girls are recruited to act as mouthpieces for
   activists on behalf of issues patently outside their youthful
   interests or grasp. A majority of them now believe they belong to a
   minority. Far from being encouraged to think of themselves as
   Americans, their sense of identity is imprinted with the stigma of
   separateness from their earliest moments of consciousness. The
   camouflage applied in this area bears the labels "self esteem," "role
   models," "roots."

   Most immigrants took their lives in their hands because in the country
   of their birth they could not get ahead, or could not get along (or
   both). What made the difference? Why have men and women Irish,
   Sicilian, Hungarian, Vietnamese and, yes, African made out so
   infinitely better over here than over there?

   The American Construct knew nothing about hyphens. If everybody was
   American, plain and simple, the curse of warring groups will have been
   eliminated and a community of individuals was free to evolve. Nearly
   two centuries later, the assault of Social Dogma was spearheaded by
   the arrival of the hyphen. The hyphen accomplished what the Wolfpack,
   the V1, the V2, and all the ICBMs of the Soviet Union could not. It
   created the seams at which America was to come apart.

   Meanwhile, a growing multitude of minorities is attempting the uneasy
   fit of employing Social Dogma developed to suppress the minority in a
   given society to gain objectives advocated by self-appointed leaders.
   Common sense would inform them that destroying the very structure in
   which they seek accommodation has never been a successful recipe. If
   the objective is to live inside a certain building, demolishing it and
   distributing the bricks is hardly the way to go. Social Dogma has yet
   to succeed in building anything at all. History has recorded its
   unparalleled record of destruction, which is why the so-called
   National Standards for U.S. History and for World History had gone to
   such lengths to eliminate the teaching of history in our schools.

                               DEBATE OR WARFARE?

   And so we return to The Question That Matters. Communism and Nazism
   have demonstrated what might happen if Social Dogma governs. At the
   expense of the individual law, education, and human interaction of
   every kind will be subordinated to some "higher purpose," expressed
   always in terms of group identity. The agenda is prescribed and
   adjusted daily by those who claim to 'know best' what is appropriate
   for all creatures.

   During the 19th century, the clash between these conflicting views
   remained confined to writings. In 1914, the contest moved to the
   battlefield. Two World Wars and the so-called Cold War later the same
   battle continues to rage, now in the everyday life of America. It is,
   without doubt, a fight to the finish. Yet those who have been
   persuaded that we are debating merely different approaches to our
   shared American traditions remain the great majority. Decades of mind
   manipulation by social theorists, social dogmatists, has succeeded in
   distorting our vision.

   That which divided Kant from Locke, Marx from Adam Smith, separates
   Liberals from Conservatives in today's America. Significantly, Locke
   neither implied that he was privy to divine insight nor found himself
   in need of declaring God "dead" to make his point. English-speaking
   thinkers, unlike their German counterparts, did not seek to challenge
   religion an important distinction between the protagonists, still
   today. Securely anchored in their moral foundations, Conservatives can
   afford to pursue the dialogue as a process of discovery, amongst
   themselves and with the American people at large. Liberals must
   continue to rely upon their unrelenting monologue.

   Because in the short term dialogue can appear as uncertainty and
   monologue as strength, the time has come to distinguish between
   appearance and substance as follows:

     * The agenda of so-called Liberals in America rests on 19th century
       (German) Social Dogma. No alternative roots of significance are
       traceable.
     * Social Dogma is diametrically opposed the principles on which this
       nation was founded.
     * Social Dogma seeks to restrict freedom of speech, freedom of
       movement, advancement without discrimination, and the protection
       of private property.
     * Having lost two World Wars and the Cold War, Social Dogma
       continues to cast aspersions on our defense establishment, seeking
       eventually to destroy the capability of this country to resist and
       combat forces of oppression.
     * Social Dogma, unchallenged, has led to Bolshevism and Nazism.

     _________________________________________________________________

   These are the origins, this is the true nature of the so-called
   Liberal agenda. Without comprehending it, we are unlikely to exorcize
   it. Some have argued that even the Liberal agenda has 'good' points,
   but then people were taken in by Hitler's Autobahns, Mussolini's
   success in getting the trains to run on time, or all those Five-Year
   Plans which were supposed really, but REALLY, to put food on Soviet
   tables.

   Remember Raskolnikov's visionary nightmare about the new microbes?
   "Men attacked by them became at once mad and furious. But never had
   men considered themselves so intellectual and so completely in
   possession of the truth as these sufferers, never had they considered
   their decisions, their scientific conclusions, their moral convictions
   so infallible..."

   We have identified the microbes and the plague they spread. We called
   the virus Social Dogma. Cataloguing the damage it has already caused
   to America is but a first step. Next, we must learn to differenciate
   between those who have been infected, and those who are actively
   spreading the virus. While the former may be cured, the latter need to
   be engaged head-on.

     _________________________________________________________________

      (c) Copyright 1996 Balint Vazsonyi





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--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Richard.Bragg@ssa.co.uk
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 17:11:32 +0800
To: mmotyka@lsil.com
Subject: RE: DNA
Message-ID: <8025669D.002F7404.00@seunt002e.ssa.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



DNA testing can never prove anything.  It can rule out someone completely
and statistically make it
very unlikely to be anyone else.  But what about identical sib's.  They all
have exactly the same DNA!

There are cases of such children where one becomes a pillar of society and
the other less so.

A DNA database would allow loads of stuff to be done.  How about a designed
disease or toxin that
only affects certain gene carriers.  This could be added to the food chain
at any time you wanted
to incapacitate a particular person or group of people without comprimising
any one else.

Fun hmmm!!!





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 23:50:18 +0800
To: users@einstein.ssz.com (SSZ User Mail List)
Subject: 18th Century Hacking [scienceagogo]
Message-ID: <199810141532.KAA11922@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> X-within-URL: http://www.scienceagogo.com/news/19980914030842data_trunc_sys.shtml

> Subject: 19980914030842data_trunc_sys.shtml

>    Richard Taylor
>    richard@jujumedia.com   Apple UK Old Post Bags: The Story of the
>    Sending of a Letter in Ancient and Modern Times, brought to our
>    attention by the Dead Media Project.
>    
>     In those days, "franking" was the name of the game, meaning the
>    transmission of information by way of sophisticated encryptions on the
>    outside of an envelope. The trick was to take advantage of the
>    pre-Penny Black system of cash-on-delivery, where postmen demanded
>    exorbitant fees from recipients. Outwitting the Post Office involved
>    gleaning important information from, say, the way the address was
>    written, then refusing the letter on the grounds that it was too
>    expensive.
>    
>     The poet Coleridge tells the story of the most rudimentary sort of
>    frank, witnessed at an inn in the north of England. A postman offered
>    a letter to the barmaid and demanded a shilling. Sighing
>    melodramatically, she gave back the letter, protesting that she was
>    too poor to pay for it. Coleridge, ever the gentleman, insisted on
>    forking out the shilling, only to be shown afterwards that the
>    envelope was empty. The letter's message was in fact contained in a
>    number of subtle hieroglyphics alongside the address.

[text deleted]

>     The Post Office cottoned on to such shenanigans, but proof of
>    fraudulent activity was next to impossible. They did, however, crack a
>    number of basic codes, and administered fines accordingly. Secret
>    messages embedded within apparent instructions to the postman, such as
>    "With speed" or "Postman, be you honest and true" were well known, as
>    was the practice of highlighting certain words on a newspaper
>    (newspapers were delivered free of charge) to convey a simple idea.
>    Underlining the name of a Whig politician commonly meant "I am well",
>    while doing the same thing with a Tory meant the opposite.

[text deleted]


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Leif Ericksen 
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 00:32:33 +0800
To: cypherpunks 
Subject: Re: DNA
In-Reply-To: <000401bdf77a$fe720d00$932580d0@xasper8d>
Message-ID: <3624C73B.F5A648E1@imho.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



X wrote:
> 
> DNA of identical siblings is identical?  I guess that makes sense, since
> we're really split after conception...  so explain why my brother has smooth
> hands and fingers with almost no prints (lucky bastard!) and mine look like
> mother teresa's face... (probably more now than before, eh?)
> 
> X
> 

What about the difference in twins being that one can be from two ovum
and two sperm??  Did you ever think of that??  Thus a brother and sister
that are twins?  Maybe you are one of said twins two eggs two sperm...

Is if fraternal VS paternal twins?  I forget...
or maternal VS paternal??   Maybe paternal two sperms maternal the egg
split twice... High School Biology was so long ago and I do computers
now, not biology or medicine.


				- lhe



			- lhe




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Martin Minow 
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 02:28:36 +0800
To: Adam Back 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Adam Back  summarizes the Toto-files by noting
>
>As to what it means -- it means that one or more others could have
>been the author of the message the IRS claim Carl Johnson wrote.  Heck
>anyone could sign posts with that key now.
>

This suggests that a cynical, paranoid, person could create a
"deniable" signature key by doing what "Toto" did:

1. Choosing a key length that a "very competent attacker" (i.e.
   a TLA), and only a "very competent attacker", could factor.
2. Signing a message and leaving the public key that signed
   that message on a public site.

Now, when you are accused of signing a message, you can raise
a "reasonable doubt" defence by claiming that the TLA may have
reconstructed the private key that signed the message in question.

Martin Minow
minow@pobox.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 17:56:23 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199810140934.LAA00392@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>Hello,

>The IRS and United States Attorney's office are looking for assistance in
>a criminal investigation involving threatening messages which were posted
>to the Cypherpunks mailing list.  This e-mail address was noted to be one
>of those which receives the Cypherpunks list.  I would appreciate it if
>you would contact me to discuss whether you would be willing to assist us
>in this matter, and what records or information you have relating to the
>Cypherpunks list.  You can contact me at this e-mail address or at (503)
>326-2787.


Sorry, but I am not aware of any threating messages posted to this list. Of course I can see how your organization may consider calls by the citizens for a return to a Constitutional government a "threat".

I woun't be calling you but I will be calling my congressman and senator in the morning reaffirming my support for a flat tax and the abolishment of the IRS.

Have a nice day,

I am TOTOCUS!!   




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 00:11:49 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: IRS wants cypherpunks archives
Message-ID: <199810141538.LAA29509@panix7.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



   >   From: Adam Back 
   >
   >   Jeff, and fellow agents seem to be interested in cypherpunks archives
   >   (as evidenced by asking Jim Choate who operates one of the mailing
   >   list nodes, but who does _not_ offer archived list traffic).  Jeff is
   >   Cc'd on this post to be helpful (who says cypherpunks aren't helpful
   >   -- you only have to ask).
   >
   >   This archive seems to be operational:
   >
   >   	http://www.inet-one.com/cypherpunks/

And less than 100 lines of client-side programming (I use 'expect')
will retrieve the entire archive.
---guy

   Watch them make a grunt retrieve it all manually.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 19:36:35 +0800
To: rms@gnu.org
Subject: overlapping aims -- cypherpunks/FSF (Re: Two? ways people could use your code)
In-Reply-To: <199810140046.UAA06980@psilocin.gnu.org>
Message-ID: <199810141057.LAA28762@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Richard Stallman writes:
> There are actually three classes of possible projects that might use
> code you have written:
> 
> * Those who want to make a free program.
> * Those who want to make a proprietary program.
> * Those who don't have strong views about the matter.
> 
> So let's look at each of these three cases, considering two available
> choices (copylefting, or not copylefting), and how the decision
> affects the goals of encouraging use of encryption, discouraging back
> doors, and encouraging users' freedom.

I see this as a two separate, overlapping aims thing.

Aim 1, get lots of crypto out there, quality a secondary issue.

Motivation: try to ensure enough people use and know about crypto, so
that enough people understand how objectionable it is when governments
try to outlaw crypto.  Of course encourage use of strong crypto,
published, unpatented algorithms, and published source code where this
doesn't interfere with deployment.

Aim 2, try to encourage people to publish all source code.

Motivation: to give end-users more flexibility, and more freedom to do
what they want and change as they want the software they use.  I use
almost exclusively linux myself by choice.

> * Often at companies, and sometimes at universities, people are dead
>   set on making a proprietary program.  This program may be capable of
>   doing a job, but its users will not have freedom, and they will have
>   to take it on faith that there are no backdoors.
> 
>   Copylefting your code says this project cannot use it.  Most likely,
>   the project will spend some extra money to write their own code, and
>   the outcome for the public will be much the same.  They might do a
>   worse job, or a better job.  There's some chance they would not do
>   the project; whether that is a loss for the public is not clear.  

Most deployed crypto is commercial, most used software is commercial.
(Insert proprietary instead of commercial if this makes it clearer
what I mean).

Therefore it seems to me that successes in getting crypto put in
commercial software which would not otherwise be there are important.

Your average linux/unix/GNU hacker is well above average in technical
competence, and can look after himself.  He can get the source for
pgp, check it to some extent, and understand the issues.  He is not
the target for the deployment.

The target for deployment is the mass market end-user (think windows95
users).  At present it is a statement of reality that most end-users
are using windows95.

>   It could mean less use of encryption; but if you also care about
>   avoiding secret back doors, and about users' freedom, you won't
>   see this as an unambiguous loss.

Surreptitious company inserted unpublished back doors are rare I
think, much more likely is crypto-incompetence leading to
unintentional weakness.  Cypherpunks also have had some successes in
cracking weak systems as a way to encourage the vendors to fix the
problems.  Encouraging open source, and published protocols,
especially for crypto components is a good idea as it encourages peer
review.

> * Often at universities, and sometimes at companies, people decide to
>   write a program but don't think about whether to make it free
>   software.  They may not care, they may dislike thinking about the
>   issue, they may simply not understand that there is an issue.
> 
>   In these cases, they will probably judge your code by its features,
>   not by its distribution terms.  If they want to use your code, and
>   your terms say that's permitted only if their program is free,
>   they'll say, "Ok, I'll make it free, and use your code."
> 
>   In this kind of case, using copyleft will produce a benefit: more
>   freedom for the end user, who can check, rather than trust, that
>   there are no back doors in the program.

Agree.

> Conclusion: if you care *only* about more use of encryption, and
> *absolutely not* about secret back doors or users' freedom, then you
> would find it a better strategy not to copyleft.

The secret doors we are concerned to fight against are being
engineered by governments.  Usually they are out in the open (clipper,
KRAP, etc).

> But if you care about encouraging use of encryption, about
> discouraging back doors, and about freedom for software users,
> copyleft (such as the GNU GPL) is a good way of promoting all of these
> goals together.

GNU GPL not a bad way to further these two goals simultaneously, but I
think BSD (or I think you say that X11 license is better) is better
for the purpose.

Or GNU LGPL (Library GPL) I think is a good compromise position: it
allows use in proprietary software without requiring the rest of the
code to be GNU GPLed, and it encourages free access to the crypto
portion (if we are talking about crypto libraries and tools).

Would you be interested in publishing GNUPG, and other GNU crypto
utilities and libraries under GNU LGPL?  And adopting this for crypto
code as a general GNU strategy?  There are other libraries, so it
should qualify.  (Tom Zerucha wrote a OpenPGP implementation using
SSLeay, and I think said he would public domain his software).

Adam
-- 
print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<>
)]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 00:38:28 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Aaron Debunks Crypto Myths
Message-ID: <199810141614.MAA00413@panix7.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



   >   From: John Young 
   >
   >   Crypto emissary David Aaron gave a speech today in
   >   Germany boosting US encryption policy for privacy and
   >   commerce. Says it's an insult to claim US intelligence 
   >   agencies want backdoor access and other untrue myths:
   >
   >      http://jya.com/aaron101398.htm

A prime example of DoubleThink, since Key Recovery == backdoor access.

#   http://jya.com/aaron101398.htm
#
#   Clearly, a balance must be struck between the needs of businesses and
#   consumers and the protection of society as a whole. What is the
#   answer? We believe the answer lies in cryptographic systems that
#   provide trustworthy security services along with lawful access. By
#   lawful access, I refer to a range of technologies designed to permit
#   the plain text recovery of encrypted data and communications under a
                   ^^^^^^^^
#   court order or other lawful means that safeguards civil liberties.

In other words, they believe in cryptographic systems with backdoor access.

The NSA testified to Congress concerning lawful access:

: The Puzzle Palace 
:     Inside the National Security Agency,
:     America's most secret intelligence organization
: Author James Bamford, 1983 revision, ISBN 0-14-00.6748-5
:
: P381-382: NSA Director General Allen testified to Congress that there is no
: statute that prevents the NSA from interception of domestic communications.
: Asked whether he was concerned about the legality of expanding greatly its
: targeting of American citizens, the NSA replied: "Legality? That particular
: aspect didn't enter into the discussions."

The government's idea of "lawful access" is "anywhere, anytime".


#   http://jya.com/aaron101398.htm
#
#   We are not wedded to any single technology approach. Key management
#   infrastructures, key recovery and other recoverable products that
#   provide lawful access are some of the ways to achieve a reasonable
#   balance. We believe that seeking industry-led, market-based solutions
#   is the best approach to helping law enforcement.

Oh dey do do dey?

: From owner-firewalls-outgoing@GreatCircle.COM Wed May 14 18:54:15 1997
: Received: from osiris (osiris.nso.org [207.30.58.40]) by ra.nso.org
:           (post.office MTA v1.9.3 ID# 0-13592) with SMTP id AAA322
:           for ; Wed, 14 May 1997 12:56:13 -0400
: Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 12:58:46 -0400
: To: firewalls@GreatCircle.COM
: From: research@isr.net (Research Unit I)
: Subject: Re: Encryption Outside US
:     
: I was part of that OECD Expert Group, and believe I may shine at least
: some light on what exactly was said and happened at the meetings.
:
: The main conflict during all sessions was the demand of the US to be
: able to decrypt anything, anywhere at any time versus the European
: focus: we want to have the choice - with an open end - to maintain
: own surveillance.  The US demand would have caused an immediate
: ability to tap into what the European intelligence community believes to
: be its sole and exclusive territory. In fact the Europeans were not at all
: pleased with the US view points of controlling ALL crypto. Germany and
: France vigorously refused to work with the US on this issue.
:
: ... the Australian and UK views that felt some obligation
: from the 1947 UKUSA treaty (dealing with interchange of intelligence). 
:
: Bertil Fortrie
: Internet Security Review


The US Government insists on the capability

   "to decrypt anything, anywhere at any time"

he said.

Gosh, that doesn't sound like they believe "market-based solutions"
are the best approach, does it?

*   http://epic.org/crypto/ban/fbi_dox/impact_text.gif
* 
*   SECRET FBI report
*
*                   NEED FOR A NATIONAL POLICY
* 
*   A national policy embodied in legislation is needed which insures
*   that cryptography use in the United States should be forced to be
*   crackable by law enforcement, so such communications can be monitored
*   with real-time decryption. 
* 
*   All cryptography that cannot meet this standard should be prohibited.

No it don't, do it?


: *   "Above the Law"
: *   ISBN 0-684-80699-1, 1996
: *   by David Burnham
: *
: *   The suspicion that the government might one day try to outlaw any
: *   encryption device which did not provide easy government access was
: *   reinforced by comments made by FBI Director Freeh at a 1994 Washington
: *   conference on cryptography. "The objective for us is to get those
: *   conversations...wherever they are, whatever they are", he said in
: *   response to a question.
: *
: *   Freeh indicated that if five years from now the FBI had solved the
: *   access problem but was only hearing encrypted messages, further
: *   legislation might be required.

Anywhere, anytime.
---guy

   "Easy access".




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 03:54:29 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: RE: DNA
Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A193A7A5F@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



 
> But what about identical sib's.  They all
> have exactly the same DNA!

Or a clone ;). 

	Matt




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 00:57:14 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Gary Burnore vs. Earth (Was: Value of Annon. Remailers)
Message-ID: <199810141634.MAA00719@panix7.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



   >   From: Missouri FreeNet Administration 
   >
   >   Obviously, as defenders of this man's right to post material offensive
   >   to Burnore, we too came under attack.

One man's attack is another's defense.

   >   	The point here is that what little survives about this lunatic child
   >   molester (he has even successfully had his North Carolina Sex Offender record
   >   removed!),...

Gee, why don't you ask North Carolina why, in writing?

   >   Yes, I know, at least half of you are sitting here going "now why did they
   >   bother us with that?".  The answer is we feel VERY strongly that if not for
   >   what [little] we were able to find as a result of A/R's, we would never have
   >   been able to figure this clown out at all.  And loco though he may be, he is
   >   also a *prodigious* pain in the ass,...

Again, ying/yang.

Let us know when you have an original thought.
---guy




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: SDN 
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 04:16:21 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: FYI: More on WebTV security
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <19981014124309.A2210@divcom.slimy.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Wed, Oct 14, 1998 at 03:23:45AM -0700, Bill Stewart wrote:
> At 06:32 PM 10/13/98 -0700, SDN wrote:
> 
> >More relevant to the list, the threat model for the WebTV service/box is
> >primarily concerned about loss of user data, forgotten passwords, and
> >unsecured data over the public internet.  It's not worried about privacy
> >from WebTV insiders.
> >As a result, all user data is stored on the service, traffic to and from the
> >box is encrypted, and data isn't hidden from the customer care people.
> 
> If it's not secure against insiders, then it's not only not secure against cops,

I'd say it's definitely not secure against law enforcement.  That's probably
the primary reason why the boxes got export approval with 128-bit crypto.
It's just so much easier to ask the service operators what a user has been
up to, check the logs, and go...

That's why I said that the threat model wasn't something a cypherpunk would
be happy with.  There just isn't any protection against an attacker who
looks legitimite to Microsoft.

> it's also not secure against crackers, unless Microsoft hsa let the
> WebTV folks do a very good job of security.

This is less clear.  The service predates the buyout, and it hasn't (yet)
migrated to NT.  The people who run and maintain it are very competent
(at least the ones I know personally), but anyone can make mistakes,
espescially under the pressures of a startup environment.

Jon Leonard

Again, the above are my opinions.  WebTV's opinions may be entirely different.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Leif Ericksen 
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 02:36:43 +0800
Subject: Re: Use encryption to foil spooks' data harvesting, says US state dept
In-Reply-To: <199810141617.SAA07987@replay.com>
Message-ID: <3624E51A.C5074D7B@imho.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Anonymous wrote:
> 
> http://ds.state.gov/documents/protect.doc
>
> transmission of competitive information.
> 
> ·Many telecommunications transmissions will contain "key words", used to
>

HUM SOunds like the idea of the 'auto record'  I say a keyword on the
phone and wham I am being recorded to see *IF* I am some sort of
terrorist trying to overthrow the government, get stuff that I should
not have like a fully functional missile and what not.  

Do you all believe this?  I do. I can not say why but I do.
(Actually I could say why but it is two long stories.)

Do you believe this is done in phone calls in the US based on the
telephone switch doing the monitoring and it monitors ALL calls not just
those that go over seas???  I believe so...  See my above statement.

Have you been recorded before??? I believe I have....  WHY???  Well, if
you ask that then you do not belong on this group!


			- lhe




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 20:32:33 +0800
To: tcmay@got.net
Subject: Re: ATTN: BlackNet, sog's keys 4 sale
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199810141153.MAA29777@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Tim May comments on:
> At 6:41 PM -0700 10/13/98, Anonymous wrote:
> >Dear BlackNet,
> >
> >TOTO Enterprises, Bienfait, Saskatchewan hereby offers
> >for sale sog's key under the BlackNet anonymous
> >information market.
> >
> >Payments must be in anonymous ecash delivered to a
> >digital dead drop to be arranged later.
> >
> >Or alternatively, we are willing to take bids in
> >bottles of Scotch delivered to TOTO Key Escrow
> >Services, Box 281, Bienfait, Saskatchewan SOC OMO.

I looked up the key this message was encrypted to on one of the
keyservers by it's keyid -- 0x5A5AD16B.

Look at this:

Type Bits/KeyID    Date       User ID
pub   384/5A5AD16B 1994/02/11 *** KEY REVOKED ***
                              BlackNet

A revoked key, and a rather small key size, this rings a bell, some of
you may recall that some time ago Paul Leyland factored that key.  In
fact I have the hex version of it on my own web pages somewhere as an
example to use with rsa-perl.

A quick altavista on "Leyland BlackNet" turns up the goods [1] below.
(http://www.irdg.com/mep/nni/384broke.txt)

> Hey, I could tell you all that BlackNet was used a while back to
> distribute some of the keys used by The Performance Artist Sometimes
> Known as Toto.

Well this message does indeed seem to contain a key for:

Type Bits/KeyID    Date       User ID
sec  1024/2541C535 1997/11/07 son of gomez 

and some claimed passwords for a "carljohn" sympatico account.

Curiouser and curiouser.  Intentional or not?  Intentional I think
from the contents, [2].

Adam


[1]
======================================================================
------- Forwarded Message

From: pcl@sable.ox.ac.uk (Paul Leyland)
Newsgroups: alt.security.pgp,sci.crypt,alt.privacy
Subject: The BlackNet 384-bit PGP key has been BROKEN
Date: 26 Jun 1995 10:09:15 GMT
Organization: Oxford University, England
Lines: 165
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: sable.ox.ac.uk
Xref: mozo.cc.purdue.edu alt.security.pgp:21006 sci.crypt:40008 alt.privacy:225
76

- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----


We announce the first known hostile attack on a PGP public key.

In 1993, Tim May created BlackNet as a proof-of-concept implementation
of an information trading business with cryptographically protected
anonymity of the traders.  He created a 1024-bit key, and invited
potential traders to encrypt their sales pitch and a public key for a
reply with the BlackNet key, posting the result in one or more Usenet
newsgroups.  BlackNet would then reply in the same manner.  The original
proposal went only to a few people and May acknowledged his authorship
shortly afterwards, when his pedagogical point had been made. It was
soon posted to the Cypherpunks list, and from there to Usenet.  Six
months afterwards in February 1994, a 384-bit key was created in the
BlackNet name, and the BlackNet message was spammed to hundreds of
newsgroups by the new key owner, L. Detweiler.

At least one message was posted encrypted in the 384-bit key.  The
encryptor, either by design or by unwitting use of PGP's encrypttoself
option, also encrypted the message to his own key, exposing his identity
to anyone who cared to look him up on the key servers and use finger.

Factoring 384-bit integers is not too difficult these days.  We wanted
to see whether it could be done surreptitiously.  Jim Gillogly picked
the 384-bit BlackNet key as a suitable target, partly because of its
apparent interest and partly because he had saved a copy of the reply.
Paul Leyland took the key to pieces.  The public exponent was found to
be 17 and the public modulus:

3193508200533105601431099148202479609827976414818808019973596061739243\
9454375249389462927646908605384634672078311787

To factor this 116-digit integer, we used the same technology as the
RSA-129 project which completed last year.  That computation was so
large that it was necessary for it to be done in a blaze of publicity in
order to attract enough resources.  Ours, we estimated, would take about
400 mips-years, less than a tenth of the earlier one.  Arjen Lenstra and
Paul Leyland have been factoring integers for years, Lenstra with a
MasPar at Bellcore and Leyland with a dozen or so workstations at Oxford
University.  Alec Muffett has been contributing to factorizations for
almost a year, using forty or so machines outside working hours at Sun
Microsystems UK.  Jim Gillogly threw a couple of machines into the pot,
for a total peak power of around 1300 mips, plus the MasPar.  The
computation began on March 21st on the workstations and continued until
June 23rd.  Lenstra slipped in three weeks runtime on the MasPar between
other factorizations; he also performed the matrix elimination and
emailed the factors (PGP-encrypted) to Leyland. About 50% of the
computation was done by the MasPar.

The factors, as can easily be checked, are:
5339087830436043471661182603767776462059952694953696338283
and
5981374163444491764200506406323036446616491946408786956289

Over in Oxford, a doctored PGP was created.  It could generate only
one secret key, that from two primes hard-coded into it.  The key was
generated and tested on the following message:

> -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE-----
> Version: 2.6
> 
> hDwDqeLyyFpa0WsBAYCumTBz0ZUBL7wC8pMXS4mBS0m3Cf6PrPer+2A0EQXJZM46
> OvPnqNWz5QK3Lwyg9DeEqAPF5jH/anmgXQEE3RNhybQUcqnOSVGMO2f5hjltI73L
> 8CRXhFzMCgjdCwTRf0Oq61j4RAptUviqhDq/r7J2FpY7GwpL5DxuJ+YrWNep69LK
> Q/CkKxtwvv2f0taly4HCLCcqw59GQ5m++WnOwDQWKG7yUaXJuUG/mJdr/o+ia3y+
> QKyqOesHdSjWoXDpK7F2Cvxf2KpV3+vzbv+TriRyDV+zR/8womdJl6YAAAKtmWO2
> fy0sp/cqr/1ZGQKmfZWz5L0bh1e/sJXJq9PjvPc05ePxZ35XEoRTCqxbq2GPynkH
> YSynfXZY//814TKmdQxPBvkc8Nbi0rc/GYyoAmItDui4mQISYskGkmLieoWDDlpP
> E9tZlb/7Xa22QS53Or6DwU/y226WXQvrWq5OJ+8OhQyEnLWsEdfgFoe1l9aeweX5
> 0ao5lcp098Q4JFfQWoaU9D7kmKvg+AVT44Pv16/nPvihAoC2O14xg7t1U8032ybs
> 4FLpvxyqoF7+oDV/QNw4Evk1ZnxE5+PH2sOf1qCJdljVSd3wGSfUQaDPRx5RH0XC
> SAgYMsIRaytpdoq521tHUZt2BIg7Ii89TfUBrnkenBFAqdZAf+JR1PSB4yaV3YtG
> PCS4lNQkmWx+ItjP0zsHVcAR0TiBcpV0gMY+tx0h40CTkDi2vHiVyswSJr4halsW
> SIixrdi6B0i3f7v7xlOpFI2khza1c/dH8nrF1uPLECeAZ8TQq53ZlyN472KYuTVZ
> 8y5NqyXd672dYEtzsOlUa9YwFKKyGisyDhZmE5wSOg2Pjopvl0WkuZSR/kdxrX/N
> hFdfXRy1Kgkr+vz9abumhcWS5lYCCfVLk/CIgRqHO09nlEJCTb1T/U788Gptr3/d
> 3dj8C/LECdY7fIdkmTgYhXmfv7fQxLWln29Yux0cEpRq2ud8rjYVSuEaTUO9dF4n
> 9oFRsPdbb0TOxaMVFm2hnELzeKAk/poInfEZkN2ZnusxJ4aM1HkBRva+CAMhQHdT
> XMisoNawWEDPwiwu91owIrBevPJNvX155jUTwKNj0UPBwS6TfS5gXl9g+LoBnMWQ
> nbMMMYVXbJVsAeVOlzTSBftpbglx1k7ocDaAJTZ3OCjf0FcKJsa+4Hybc713611c
> WSHV5esfY9k/yw==
> =nLfz
> -----END PGP MESSAGE-----

A successful decryption resulted in:

>   Although I realize blacknet was a hoax of some sort, I'm curious as
> to the reasons behind it and I would like to know the motives of the 
> person who did it, malicious to make fun of cypher punks or simply
> poking fun at cyberspace in general.
>    I'm interested in forming a similar net, not for the buying and 
> selling of information, but for the fun of doing it, who knows what might 
> come about in a network somewhat limited and away from the internet, but
> based on pgp without people flaming, and without the netloons like
> dwetler and sternlight, (I have my doubts about dwetler's actual motives
> in spamming the mailers)
>   SO, hopefully they key I encrypt it to is the actual one, and if not
> hopefully whoever is intercepting this is as interested in creating 
> what I am, why else be eaves dropping??
>   Looking forward to hearing from whoever out there, and
> I hope you're competent enough with unix to extract my pgp key
> from my .plan
> 
> 
> --
> Finger yusuf921@raven.csrv.uidaho.edu for PGP public key 2.6ui
> GJ/GP -d+ H+ g? au0 a- w+++ v+(?)(*) C++++ U++1/2 N++++ M-- -po+ Y+++
> -         t++ 5-- j++ R b+++ D+ B--- e+(*) u** h* r+++ y?  
> 
> 
>

The next step was to create a revocation certificate and send that off
to the PGP key servers.  After all, the key has undoubtedly been
compromised.

The moral of this story is that 384-bit keys can be broken by a small
team of people working in secret and with modest resources.  Lest anyone
object that a MasPar is not a modest resource, we'd re-iterate that it
did only 50% of the work; that we took only three months and that we
used only 50 or so quite ordinary workstations.  We believe that we
could have used at least twice as many machines for at least twice as
long without anyone noticing. The currently minimum recommended key
size, 512 bits, is safe from the likes of us for the time being, but we
should be able to break them within five years or so.  Organizations
with more than "modest resources" can almost certainly break 512-bit
keys in secret right now.

Alec Muffett    alec.muffett@uk.sun.com
Paul Leyland    pcl@oucs.ox.ac.uk
Arjen Lenstra   lenstra@bellcore.com
Jim Gillogly    jim@acm.org

and, of course, BlackNet     8-)

P.S.   The 384-bit BlackNet secret key is:

> -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE-----
> Version: 2.6.2i
> 
> lQDAAy/ty1QAAAEBgM98haqmu+pqkoqkr95iMmBTNgb+iL54kUJCoBSOrT0Rqsmz
> KHcVaQ+p4vLIWlrRawAFEQABfAw0gFVVGhzZF63Nc8HJin4jAy2WgIOsvST5ne1Y
> CbfyDIZ6siTHUAos8wMBQZ6Q8QDA2b6tiYqrGu6E1+F0DGPSk9MGif5/LKFrAMDz
> 8HXIK1zrEFEDq9/5dUXO2rk1tH+mkAEAv0EE9e5EJn+quL3/YvAg6bKOlM7HgVKq
> JEDDtCBCbGFja05ldDxub3doZXJlQGN5YmVyc3BhY2UubmlsPg==
> =/BEI
> -----END PGP MESSAGE-----


- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6

iQCVAwUBL+6HEzt/x7zOdmsfAQGRpQP9FZluArrT5+zsG/R6y/MF7O3d7ArEkVe2
rUQgP7W2NxudAFHTNaL9mqLBDVNW/3PqWIhvHMtrSgG+ZAFBH5bP03tizfOFr+SL
eO1JQgYFey7Wh5J/YCuE0VTlYMZ7bhnoiGIvTYZgxIzVWAYyGmlWKRDjfKz/Pks8
qavbPg6qbPo=
=s12J
- -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
- --
Paul Leyland         | Hanging on in quiet desperation is
Oxford University Computing Services     |     the English way.
13 Banbury Road, Oxford, OX2 6NN, UK     | The time is gone, the song is over.
Tel: +44-1865-273200  Fax: 273275        | Thought I'd something more to say.
Finger pcl@sable.ox.ac.uk for PGP key    |

------- End of forwarded message -------

[2]
======================================================================
ATTN: Jeff Gordon

As a bonus PRIZE for people figuring this out, here's
Toto's sympatico username and password:

username: carljohn
password: 574kxy
SMTP: smtp.sk.sympatico.ca
POP3: mailhost.sk.sympatico.ca
POP3 username: carljohn

  I sent much of my outgoing mail through CJ's system
because he had so many hackers and system intruders
that he was a one-man 'Crowds' unit.

Toto

-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
Version: 2.6.2

mQCNAzRiaHcAAAEEAPdnnUJRJoktl6tMtRcrV330FvNPok4FvTMOT82V0lIRA7ZQ
jiAcv4Egm8nx6M6dc75eWIIPo4gZOWf5xjZzN8XjD2ytwMNqQnis0RMN9OI8ysk2
I7frJO0FNLikupHf+tUMhDc52qQbOcsVC53GZ8FdwY1zzaX7Dc5WpAclQcU1AAUR
tB9zb24gb2YgZ29tZXogPEluZm9XYXJAZGV2Lm51bGw+iQCVAwUQNGJph85WpAcl
QcU1AQFXPQQA8adaDwM3DnttrJPTjUd9I/fQ6q73Zvp6oLPP3MSon4uEbIVJryPB
wZYfcjXb6Co84XFpaL8shtgP0cHYRZDfQraCwsaJWOm1Lh+ZhZyqHh2oF4QrpOhm
A5YzxYI7SX3GIu/X1XO5vcb+BnJqbl2+RUaHnGqcwwrwxjSc1stGwJ4=
=Yx4A
-----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----

-----BEGIN PGP SECRET KEY BLOCK-----
Version: 2.6.2
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=yYBi
-----END PGP SECRET KEY BLOCK-----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 04:27:00 +0800
To: Jim Gillogly 
Subject: Re: ATTN: BlackNet, sog's keys 4 sale
In-Reply-To: <3624BFD1.7BB0BF77@acm.org>
Message-ID: <199810142000.NAA22600@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



even in cyberspace, what goes around comes around..!!
I've observed some keys/bits have a certain "stigma" attached to them.
you might get good press breaking other keys, but
not them.
yes, performance-artist-known-as-toto, 
there are black clouds even in cyberspace




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 04:38:20 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Fwd: 10/13/98 MSNBC Special Report on Chem/Bio Attack; Tonight
Message-ID: <199810142012.NAA23588@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: RMORGAN762@aol.com
Subject: IP: Fwd: 10/13/98 MSNBC Special Report on Chem/Bio Attack; Tonight
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 01:58:55 EDT
To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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EmergencyNet News Resource Announcement

10/13/98 - 15:00CDT

MSNBC Special Report on Chem/Bio Attack; Tonight

Chicago, IL (EmergencyNet News) -- According to program announcements,
MSNBC, on "The News with Brian Williams," will present a Special Report on a
potential chemical attack on a U.S. city. The program is scheduled for
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Courtesy of:

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 04:43:24 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.38: TRUSTe is Creating a New Child Privacy Program
Message-ID: <199810142012.NAA23599@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: "ama-gi ISPI" 
Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.38: TRUSTe is Creating a New Child Privacy Program
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 00:12:32 -0700
To: 

ISPI Clips 5.38: TRUSTe is Creating a New Child Privacy Program
News & Info from the Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI)
Wednesday October 14, 1998
ISPI4Privacy@ama-gi.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This From: CNET News.com, October 13, 1998
http://www.news.com


New Guidelines on Child Privacy
http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,27489,00.html?dd.ne.tx.fs2.1013

By
Tim Clark and Courtney Macavinta
Staff Writers, CNET News.com


Industry group TRUSTe [ http://www.truste.org/ ] is creating a new child
privacy program that it hopes will address issues raised by the Federal
Trade Commission and the so-called Bryan bill now pending in Congress.

The FTC has reviewed TRUSTe's child privacy guidelines, which generally bar
Web sites from collecting personal information from children under 13
without verifiable parental permission. They also require child-oriented
Web sites to state clearly and prominently what information is being
collected and how it is shared.

"We want to help these sites catering to kids implement the bill," said
Susan Scott, TRUSTe executive director. "We have created a unique
children's seals, and to get that seal, sites need to comply with all the
FTC requirements to create and implement privacy statements."

Authored by Sen. Richard Bryan (D-Nevada), the Children's Online Privacy
Protection Act was tacked on to the Internet Tax Freedom Act. The provision
requires parental consent before Internet sites can collect information
online from children age 12 and under.

TRUSTe backs the Bryan bill but is concerned that is currently tied to
Internet censorship legislation.

One major children's site, Yahooligans plans to post TRUSTe's new child
privacy seal because it says its practices comply with TRUSTe's guidelines.
TRUSTe is talking to another major children's site, Disney about joining
the program too.

"Our privacy practices are in compliance with keeping a safe environment on
the Web," said Rob McHugh, senior producer for Yahooligans, which has
updated its privacy statement but not changed its practices to obtain the
children's privacy seal. Yahooligans collects first names, age, gender, and
home state, but no individually identifiable information, such email or
physical address.

"The practices are in effect right now for any new applicants [for TRUSTe's
logo] for sites directed at kids under 13," Scott said.

TRUSTe hopes its guidelines will become a "safe harbor" for child-oriented
sites. That means the FTC would accept a site's use of the TRUSTe child
privacy mark as evidence the site is following the law, with TRUSTe
essentially becoming an enforcement arm.

The FTC still must promulgate regulations on child privacy, and TRUSTe
expects to alter its guidelines based on the federal agency's final rules,
which may not be completed for a year. Scott expects no major changes.

The Bryan bill would be the first online privacy legislation to pass,
giving the FTC authority it previously felt it didn't have to enforce
privacy rules.

Scott predicts that requiring parental permission before collecting
personal data on children will reduce the amount of information sites
request.

"The cost of business has gone up because of the verification [that parents
approve]," she said. "Sites will need to look at their business models to
see if they need that personal information."

Scott praised Bryan for taking industry concerns into account by altering
the initial legislation, for example, to apply specifically to commercial
sites--not nonprofits--and by limiting the parental permission requirement
to children 12 years and under, not ages 13 to 19.

The Net Tax Freedom Act is still in limbo today as Congress's session comes
down to the wire. The Senate passed the three-year moratorium on new Net
taxes, but if the House doesn't push it through as is then Congress will
likely run out of time to pass the legislation.

There is speculation, however, that the tax moratorium will be attached to
omnibus spending legislation that could be passed by midnight tomorrow
before both houses adjourn. If the bill is passed, the child privacy
protections also will be ushered into law.

But the Net tax bill also contains a controversial provision by Sen. Dan
Coats (R-Indiana) that exempts commercial sites from the tax break if they
give minors unfettered access to "harmful" material.


Specifically, TRUSTe's Children's Seal Program requires that licensees not:

*Collect information from a child under 13 without parental consent or
direct parental notification of the nature and intended use of the data.
Parents should be able to prevent use of the information.

*Collect personally identifiable offline contact information from children
under 13 without parental consent.

*Distribute to third parties any personal data collected from a child under
13 without parental consent.

*Allow children under 13 to publicly post or otherwise distribute personal
information without parental consent. Sites must try to prohibit children
from posting any contact information.

*Use a games or prizes to entice a child under 13 to divulge more
information than is needed.

Copyright (c) 1995-98 CNET, Inc.


--------------------------------NOTICE:------------------------------
ISPI Clips are news & opinion articles on privacy issues from
all points of view; they are clipped from local, national and international
newspapers, journals and magazines, etc. Inclusion as an ISPI Clip
does not necessarily reflect an endorsement of the content or opinion
by ISPI. In compliance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed free without profit or payment for non-profit research
and educational purposes only.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

ISPI Clips is a FREE e-mail service from the "Institute for the Study
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The Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) is a small
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(Canada). ISPI operates on a not-for-profit basis, accepts no
government funding and takes a global perspective.

ISPI's mandate is to conduct & promote interdisciplinary research
into electronic, personal and  financial privacy with a view toward
helping ordinary people understand the degree of privacy they have
with respect to government, industry and each other and to likewise
inform them about techniques to enhance their privacy.

But, none of this can be accomplished without your kind and
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you please help us continue this important work by becoming an "ISPI
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We gratefully accept all contributions:

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Your ISPI "membership" contribution entitles you to receive "The ISPI
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 04:42:55 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.42: Poll Shows 75% of Canadians Worry About Internet privacy
Message-ID: <199810142012.NAA23610@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: "ama-gi ISPI" 
Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.42: Poll Shows 75% of Canadians Worry About Internet privacy
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 00:15:56 -0700
To: 

ISPI Clips 5.42: Poll Shows 75% of Canadians Worry About Internet privacy
News & Info from the Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI)
Wednesday October 14, 1998
ISPI4Privacy@ama-gi.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This From: The Toronto Sun, October 2, 1998
http://www.thestar.com

1 in 3 plan to buy online, poll reveals
But Canadians still worry about privacy, security
http://www.thestar.com/back_issues/ED19981002/news/981002NEW06_NA-POLL2.htm
l

By
Valerie Lawton
Toronto Star Ottawa Bureau

OTTAWA - More than one in three Canadians expect to buy something over the
Internet within the next couple of years, a poll suggests.

``That's a much higher figure than anything we've seen,'' said Frank
Graves, president of Ekos Research Associates.

``We're talking about a pretty radical transformation of the marketplace,
the world of commerce, in a very short period of time.''

The results of the Ekos survey are to be released today.

Canadians also told the pollster they have a number of worries about buying
online.

About three-quarters of those asked said they would not be willing to give
their credit card number over the Internet even if they were buying
something from a well-known business.

And Graves said the poll found people would be more willing to shop on the
Internet if privacy and consumer protection measures were introduced.

It's an important message for business and government, said Andrew Reddick
of the Public Interest Advocacy Centre in Ottawa.

``They have to put consumers first if they want this to work,'' said
Reddick, whose centre also worked on the E-commerce study.

He's skeptical of the finding that one in three people plan to buy over the
Internet soon.

``It may be wishful thinking. It may be showing a high level of interest,''
he said.

``A lot of people aren't on the Internet - 75 per cent roughly still aren't
connected from the home.''

Some 7 per cent of Canadians said they had shopped on the Internet at some
point during the three months before the poll was taken.

Ekos has conducted three surveys on E-commerce over the last year or so.
The most recent, a telephone survey in June, involved 2,200 interviews - a
sampling that's said to be accurate within 2.1 percentage points, 19 times
out of 20.

In Ottawa yesterday, the federal government tabled legislation that
includes measures to protect personal information.

``For electronic commerce to flourish, we need confidence in how our
personal information is gathered, stored and used and clear rules for
industry,'' said Industry Minister John Manley.

The minister also announced yesterday that the government will take a
hands-off approach to cryptography, a method which encodes data so that
only individuals with the proper digital ``key'' are able to decipher it.

Copyright (c) 1996-1998, The Toronto Star.

--------------------------------NOTICE:------------------------------
ISPI Clips are news & opinion articles on privacy issues from
all points of view; they are clipped from local, national and international
newspapers, journals and magazines, etc. Inclusion as an ISPI Clip
does not necessarily reflect an endorsement of the content or opinion
by ISPI. In compliance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed free without profit or payment for non-profit research
and educational purposes only.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

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ISPI's mandate is to conduct & promote interdisciplinary research
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 04:38:17 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Surveillance: Candid camera for criminals
Message-ID: <199810142012.NAA23621@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Surveillance: Candid camera for criminals
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 08:09:13 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  BBC
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/newsid_191000/191692.stm 

Tuesday, October 13, 1998 Published at 18:48 GMT 
19:48 UK 
UK 

Candid camera for criminals 

Three steps to criminal-spotting 

A revolutionary surveillance system that can pin-point known criminals as
they walk along in a crowd is being put to the test in a London borough. 

The Mandrake face recognition system will seek out 'target faces' in the
closed circuit television (CCTV) footage in the Newham area. 
  
Councillor Ian Corbett said the decision to go ahead with the £60,000
six-month trial was made in response to the concerns of local residents.
"We've done surveys recently and 60% of the population said that crime
prevention was the No 1 issue in the community," Mr Corbett said. 

But fears of innocent people being identified by mistake have lead civil
liberties groups to condemn the system and call for it to be tightly
regulated. 

Making a match 

Newham has a network of 140 street cameras as well as 11 mobile camera units. 

Images beamed into the council's security centre in East Ham will be
compared with a database of target faces supplied by police. 
  
The system can isolate the targets from the crowds of people appearing on
CCTV. When a match is made the computer highlights the target and sounds an
alarm. 

An operator then checks the image and decides if it is necessary to contact
the police. 
  
The police in the area see the system as a way of making CCTV more efficient. 

"The people who go onto the system will be convicted criminals," said Chief
Superintendent David Armond. 

Depending on the success of the trial, other targets like paedophiles could
also be scanned. The system could also be used to help track down missing
persons. 

Advanced technology 

Mandrake is the first identification system to be able to work from moving
pictures. It has been designed by Software Systems International which has
been concentrating on identification systems for several years. 

Less advanced systems are already in operation, including one which
compares pictures of criminals with individuals crossing the Mexican border. 

One state in the US is using a database of millions of pictures to check on
people who may be entering into more than one marriage, and another state
is checking for duplicate drivers' licence applications in the same way. 

"The ability to capture a moving face is quite a new innovation and makes a
lot of difference to being able to work with things like CCTV," Software
Systems marketing manager Pat Oldcorn said. 

However she acknowledges that the computer will not always strike a perfect
match. 

"We do expect that we will get a little bit of difference in interpretation
because sometimes it will pick up a face at a three-quarters angle. We will
need to use the human element to check the authenticity of the picture,"
she said. 

Big brother concerns 

It is the risk of error that has the civil liberties group Liberty most
concerned. 

"The accuracy of facial mapping is very limited," campaigns manager Liz
Parratt said. 

"For example, you need only to look at a handful of photos of celebrities
to see how different the same people can look in different photos." 

"The claim that those who have nothing to hide have nothing to fear is
rubbish. What the police call an 80% success rate is what we would call a
one in five chance of a mistake." 

Ms Parratt said that even if the system did work, it would have to be
carefully regulated to protect people's privacy. 

But Councillor Corbett said he was most concerned about the civil liberties
of innocent people. 

A reduction in the crime rate in Newham over the next six months will
persude the Labour-dominated council to continue with the system. 
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 04:41:41 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: The Road to Biometric IDs: Identity Theft
Message-ID: <199810142012.NAA23634@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: The Road to Biometric IDs: Identity Theft
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 08:39:43 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  ABC
http://www.abcnews.com/sections/us/DailyNews/id_theft981006.html

When Someone Else Becomes You - Identity Crisis 
Lost Privacy is Price of Information Revolution

***
"You feel like [your credit rating] is a mark of integrity, and  then
you're treated like a criminal and the whole onus is on you to prove you
didn't do it." - identity theft  victim Amy DuBois
***

Could someone morph into you? (ABCNEWS.com) 

 By Jan M. Faust
 ABCNEWS.com

 Oct. 9 - Babies are targeted. So are ex-lovers, ex-roommates, ex-friends
and ex-spouses. And oh yeah, strangers too. People who use the Internet are
definitely at risk. And so are those who don't.

When it comes to identity theft-the pilfering of someone's personal data to
get a free ride on a clean record or bountiful credit-the scams are so
wide-ranging that there can be no generalization about who will get hit and
who won't.

Although there are no definite numbers on the incidence of identity theft
in the United States, it is believed to be
 on an explosive trajectory. Last year, Trans Union, one of the nation's
three major credit bureaus, reported approximately 350,000 cases of
identity fraud. And, the U.S. Secret Service, a wing of the Treasury
Department that gets involved on the larger cases, arrested approximately
10,000 people for participating in organized identity theft rings.

As the numbers keep mushrooming, so have costs-up from $442 million in 1995
to $745 million in 1997, says Assistant Deputy James Bauer of the Secret
Service. "So there's been a significant increase in the losses that tell us
they're doing it more and applying a certain level of expertise."

 Your Money and/or Your Life

 When your evil doppelgangers go for convertible sports cars, or chunky
diamond necklaces, more than your credit rating can be damaged. 

"I can promise you the day you learn of it you are at least 18 months from
being whole again, " says Bauer. "During which time you can't buy a car,
get a loan, maybe you're turned down for a job, and you may not even know why.

Amy DuBois knows this firsthand. The 34-year-old Boston surgeon was
swindled in what seemed a simple purse filching from her locked desk at the
hospital. She took immediate, and what she assumed was adequate, action by
canceling her credit cards and checks.

Once that might have been enough. But as Bauer points out, new safeguards
in the credit industry, like real-time verification of credit cards, have
forced thieves to get craftier.

The end result is that now, "Pickpockets will steal your wallet, and I say
this facetiously, but they'll give you back the cash, just to get the IDs,"
says Bauer. 

 Instant Credit Can Be an Instant Headache

 Although DuBois never recovered her purse or the money in it, it was the
identification that was the real commodity. "Nearly two years later,"
DuBois says, "I got a phone call at home from a collection agency about an
overdue credit account of $3,500 from a jewelry store in Detroit.

"And then they started coming-I got two more notices in the mail, and two
by phone within the next couple of days." When she checked her credit
report, she found that almost $30,000 dollars of jewelry, roaming cell
phone charges, and department store items had been racked up in her name,
from accounts made at department stores with instant credit, billed to
addresses that weren't hers. 

"The instant credit folks, like the departments stores, they're not
checking or verifying because they're so eager to have new customers,
because it's so competitive," says Beth Givens of the Privacy Rights
Clearinghouse, whose consumer organization publishes help for victims. "I
think the blame for a good bit of this epidemic lays at the feet of the
credit industry." 

 Will the Real Amy DuBois Stand Up?

 The fake Amy DuBois, it turned out, was a serious shopaholic. The real
DuBois said that seeing her own credit report was "eerie"

"Your student loans are there, your own Neiman-Marcus account, and then
next to those are nine accounts that just aren't yours, marked delinquent."

After 30 hours of her own time, four uninterrupted days of her secretary's
time, and about $1,000 in lawyer's fees, DuBois is gradually starting to
sort things out. That's typical, explains Ed Mierswinsky, a consumer
advocate at the U.S. Public Interest Research Group. 

"The victims end up in a real mess. They sit on hold with the credit card
companies, they sit on hold with the credit bureaus, they get on endless
voice mail loops, the police don't care because the amount of money lost
doesn't make their threshold for making major cases and getting promotions."

For DuBois, what lingers now besides the voluminous paperwork needed to be
filed whenever she legitimately needs to establish credit, is suspicion and
mistrust about giving out her personal identifiers. 

Recently while trying to open an account at Blockbuster Video, she was
asked for her driver's license and Social Security number. "I said, 'No,
I'm not providing that. You don't need to have that.'" Although she
eventually relented on the driver's license, she said she's much more
protective of her Social Security number. 

 Give Me Some Credit Here

 Guarding that precious number is one key to improving your odds, agree
privacy rights advocates. Criminals will try to liberate it from you in a
number of ways, as low-tech as sifting through your garbage can for
records, and as high-tech as setting up application forms on Internet sites
offering credit cards at the impossibly low, low rate of 1 percent APR. 

And since it's extremely difficult to eliminate risk, Givens suggests
ordering your credit report at least once a year. "The key is to catch it
early. We recommend just going to one of the three credit bureaus, and if
you see signs of fraud, then order the other two."

That would have helped DuBois, who's says she'll feel insecure and violated
for the rest of her life.

"It's a very strange sensation. I have a very good credit record, I've been
very careful. You feel like it's a mark of integrity, and then you're
treated like a criminal and the whole onus is on you to prove you didn't do
it. The whole thing is very frightening." 

For all of her expense and troubles, DuBois' experience could have been
worse. More damaging than run-of-the-mill credit theft are those cases
where criminal records or vital statistics are affected, through marriage,
divorce, an arrest, or even death under the cloned name. 

"I know of a case out West where a lady died using an assumed name," says
Bauer, "and the true name holder had to get a death certificate undone." 

Recent Examples of Identity Theft 

In New York this week, the state attorney general warned of a scam being
circulated through e-mail, faxes and fliers offering consumers a
reimbursement of $500 from Gerber Baby foods as settlement in a phony class
action. To apply, parents were asked to send copies of their child's birth
certificate and Social Security card. Babies' Social Security numbers are
plum because they allow for unflawed credit, and are rarely checked for
fraud. John and Jane Smith's adult daughter obtained credit cards in their
name and ran up debts of more than
$40,000. She paid the interest fees so as not to alert her parents of her
use of the credit cards, but was not able to keep up the payments. The
credit card companies now demand the Smiths pay the bill, given that the
debtor is their daughter.

A thief stole Annette's wallet, and has since written bad checks in her
name, and used her credit cards. Annette
wonders if anyone pays attention to driver's license photos. The thief is
white and Annette is African-American. To make matters worse, she has to
pay $10 every time she needs a notarized affidavit stating she is not the
crook. 

Meredith rented a room in her home to a woman who found her SSN. She
collected the pre-approved offers of
credit that were mailed to the house, filled them out in Meredith's name,
and obtained 15 credit cards. She
watched the mail and retrieved the monthly statements before Meredith saw
them. She has since moved out,
leaving Meredith with debts totaling $74,000. 

Francine was employed for a time as a writer for a publishing company.
After she left, she found that her
employer was using her SSN and driver's license number to obtain credit in
her name. A police department
detective investigating the case told Francine that the woman has a long
history of identity theft spanning many
states. 

Cheryl and her 7-year-old daughter went to the bank to open a checking
account for the daughter. The bank told
Cheryl her daughter had a bad credit report. Cheryl thinks that her
ex-husband has been using the child's Social
Security number to open credit accounts.  
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------




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To subscribe or unsubscribe, email:
     majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com
with the message:
     (un)subscribe ignition-point email@address
**********************************************
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**********************************************




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 20:53:19 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com
Subject: Re: ATTN: BlackNet, sog's keys 4 sale
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199810141212.NAA30027@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Wew.  The Son Of Gomez key I just decrypted and posted... it's not
just _any_ Toto key, it's _the_ key.  The 0x2541C535 one, the one that
signed the message in question.

Try it out.  [1] the message, [2] the keys.
(http://www.well.com/user/declan/toto/toto.pgp.120997.txt)

(Subject line in archives was "Encrypted InterNet DEATH THREAT!!!").

Implications?  Others had CJs keys?  Toto is someone other than CJ?

Adam

[1]
======================================================================
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----



"Contrary to one famous philosopher,
you're saying the medium is not the
message," Judge Thomas Nelson said,
alluding to the media theorist Marshall
McLuhan. 
http://www.nytimes.com/library/cyber/week/120997encrypt-bernstein.html

  Bullshit!
  The bits and bytes of email encryption are a clear message
that I wish to exercise my right to speak freely, without those
who wish to do me harm invading my privacy.
  The death of strong encryption on the InterNet will be the
global death of free speech on the InterNet. Accordingly, I 
feel it is necessary to make a stand and declare that I stand
ready and willing to fight to the death against anyone who
takes it upon themselves to try to imprison me behind an
ElectroMagnetic Curtain.

  This includes the Ninth Distric Court judges, if they come to
the conclusion that the government that they represent needs to
electronically imprison their citizens 'for their own safety.'


The problem: Criminals with a simple
encryption program can scramble their data
beyond even the government's ability to read it. 
http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/content/zdnn/1208/261695.html

  Fuck the lame LEA pricks who whine about not being able to
stop someone bringing in a planeload of drugs without being
able to invade the privacy of every person on the face of
the earth.
  Am I supposed to believe that I have knowledge of when and
where major drug shipments are taking place, simply by virtue
of hanging out as a musician, yet the LEA's are incapable of
finding out the same information by being competent in their
profession? Barf City...
 [I will shortly provide information for any LEA which wishes
  to prosecute me for my coming 'physical' death threat, on
  how to hunt me down like the filthy dog that I am.]

"Why are you saying that the fact that [encryption]
is functional takes it out of the First Amendment
context?" Myron Bright, one of the judges, asked
the Justice Department attorney, who was still in
mid-sentence. He answered that the regulations
were not aimed at suppressing speech, but only at
the physical capacity of encryption to thwart
government intelligence gathering. 

  The Spanish language has the same "physical capacity." So 
does (:>), (;[), and {;-|). Likewise, BTW, FWIW, FYI, and
my own personal favorite, YMMV (You Make Me Vomit? --or--
Your Mileage May Vary?). <-- Ambidextrous encryption.
  An-cay e-way pect-exay ig-pay atin-lay usts-bay of 
ildren-chay?
  Whispering also has the "physical capacity" to "thwart 
government intelligence gathering."

  When does the bullshit stop? When do we stop making the
use of the Spanish language over the InterNet illegal?
When do we stop making whispering, pig-latin, anagrams
and acronyms illegal?
  When do we stop saying that our government is such a
piece of crap that it is a danger to let its citizens
communicate freely, in private, and share their private
thoughts with one another?


At one point Fletcher called the government's case 
"puzzling."
http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,17114,00.html

  Only because her mom taught her that it was unladylike to
say "Bullshit!"


In arguments Monday, a Justice Department
lawyer, Scott McIntosh, said the government's
intent was to preserve the ability of intelligence
agencies to eavesdrop on foreign governments
and citizens. 
http://www.nytimes.com/library/cyber/week/120997encrypt-bernstein.html

  Let's see if I have this right...
  The U.S. government needs to destroy the right to free speech 
and right to privacy of its own citizens in order to infringe
upon the human rights of the governments and citizens of other
countries? Countries which already have strong encryption?
Countries like Red China, which is currently engaged in 
encryption research with an American company who got permission
to export much more diverse encryption material (after making
a huge campaign donation to the Whitehouse) than Professor
Bernstein will ever likely share with others?
  Apologies to Judge Fletcher, but that's not "puzzling." That's
the same-old-same-old Bullshit!


OFFICIAL 'PHYSICAL' DEATH THREAT!!!
  The pen is mightier than the sword. Thus, I prefer to wage my
'war to the death' against those who would stomp on my basic
human rights *"in the interests of National Security"* with my
electronic pen, on the InterNet, using encryption when I have
reason to fear persecution by Facist, Nazi motherfuckers.
[* ~~ TruthMonger Vernacular Translation ~~ "so that the 
 government can maintain its authority over the citizens
 by use of force and violation of human rights, rather than
 going to all of the trouble of acting in a manner that will
 garner the citizens' respect."]

  I will continue to express my thoughts through the words
I send electronically over the InterNet, both publically
and privately. I will fight to the bandwidth death against
anyone who wants to deny me my right to express my opinions
and access the opinions of those who also wish to express
their own opinions and share their true thoughts with their
fellow humans.
  If the ElectronicMagnetic Curtain slams down around me, 
then I will have no choice but to continue my current fight
in MeatSpace.
  And I am not alone...

  I will share the same 'DEATH THREAT!!!' with Judges Fletcher,
Nelson and Bright that I have shared with the President and
a host of Congressional and Senatorial representatives:
  "You can fuck some of the people all of the time, and all of
the people some of the time, but you are going to end up in a
body bag or a pine box before you manage to fuck all of the
people all of the time."

  Am *I* going to whack you out? Maybe...
  I would prefer just dumping some tea in Boston Harbor, if that
will get my message across in MeatSpace, but if it won't, then
I guess I will have to take stronger action.
  There are undoubtedly a plethora of LEA's ready and willing to
prosecute and imprison me for agreeing with Patrick Henry, who
said, "Give me liberty, or give me death." The irony, of course,
is that I do not pose a great danger to anyone but myself as
long as I continue to have my human rights and my liberty
unthreatened.

  The chances of me actually getting off of my fat butt and
going out into the real world to whack out the enemies of
freedom are probably pretty small (unless I run out of 
cigarettes and beer, and wouldn't have to make an extra 
trip).
  I fully understand that this does not lessen the potential
of any LEA who gets a wild hair up their butt to throw a
mountain of taxpayer resources into prosecuting me and 
imprisoning me for their own professional/political gain.
  However, if you are performing actions so outrageously against
basic human rights and freedoms as to get me off of my lazy ass,
then I am the least of your problems, because there undoubtedly
are millions of people more functional than myself (who get out
of the house and go further than the liquor store) who are less
willing than myself to put up with increasingly heavy chains
placed around their hands and feet 'in the interests of national
security.'

  Feel free to have the Federales break down my door and
imprison me for pointing out the obvious. After all, I fit
the profile of a domestic terrorist--I quote the Constitution 
and the Bill of Rights, and I speak out against increasingly
big government.
  But remember...it's the quiet ones you've got to watch...
If you force everyone to 'be quiet', then you've got a world
of trouble on your hands.

Sincerly,
John Gilmore 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
p.s.
NOTICE TO LEA AGENTS IN NEED OF A CAREER BOOST!
  Yes, I'm just a troublemaking asshole, trying to get John
 Gilmore  in trouble.
  However, if you want to go to the trouble of tracking me 
down, I will give you some hints, since it seems likely that
anyone who has trouble finding a ton of cocaine at an 
airport might not be competent in CyberSpace, either.
  You might want to check with the Webmasters at the sites
quoted above to see who has accessed their web sites this
morning. The anonymous remailer I will be using is an open
secret to CypherPunks around the world as a really bad 
attempt at disguising my true MeatSpace identity. This alone
ought to be enough for some aggressive young LEA and/or
federal prosecutor to earn themself some brownie-points,
since I am a sorry enough son-of-a-bitch that they would not
have much trouble convicting me in front of a jury of 'their'
peers, assuming that they can make certain that I am not 
tried by a jury of my own peers.

Bonus Points:
  I can also be tied into Jim Bell's Worldwide Conspiracy to 
assassinate government authorities, through my implementation
of an Assassination Bot.
 (I am willing to 'rat out' Jim for two bottles of Scotch. If
 he is willing to rat _me_ out for less, then I guess it's
 just my hard luck, eh? <--that's another hint!)

p.p.s.
  You can also charge me with use of 'conventional' encryption
in the commission of a crime.
  Must be your lucky fucking day, eh?

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xk31cRPEroFhO9NRVBUjzToCj78iDvdGm9QXUwLctbbohpdId/KKLTAUM6//4mCB
i/9oezfegWc=
=4/6E
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[2]
======================================================================
-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
Version: 2.6.2

mQCNAzRiaHcAAAEEAPdnnUJRJoktl6tMtRcrV330FvNPok4FvTMOT82V0lIRA7ZQ
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A5YzxYI7SX3GIu/X1XO5vcb+BnJqbl2+RUaHnGqcwwrwxjSc1stGwJ4=
=Yx4A
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-----BEGIN PGP SECRET KEY BLOCK-----
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Walter Burton 
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 02:10:19 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: RE: DNA
Message-ID: <013D438ED22ED2119F630060082F763C08A8F2@kenny.pipestream.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> -----Original Message-----
> From: X [mailto:xasper8d@lobo.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 1998 10:00 AM
> Cc: cypherpunks@toad.com
> Subject: RE: DNA
> 

[snip]

> so explain why my brother has smooth
> hands and fingers with almost no 
> prints (lucky bastard!) and mine look 
> like mother teresa's face... 

Wear-and-tear?

> (probably more now than before, eh?)

Yecch!


\\/alter




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 21:47:13 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: ATTN: BlackNet, sog's keys 4 sale
In-Reply-To: <199810141153.MAA29777@server.eternity.org>
Message-ID: <199810141304.OAA30401@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

I realised that the private key for son of gomez is passworded, but it
turns out that the password is one of the set John Young forwarded to
the list from an anonymous source a few weeks back: sog709cejCJP

yeah :-)

AdamMonger

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 05:37:26 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: RE: Two Jims, Werner and Matt redefine socialism for their own en ds
Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A193A7A62@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




> >> something like Belloc and Chesterton's "distributivism".
> 
> > Distribute what and created by whom? 
>
> Every libertarian or cypherpunk ought to have read "The Servile State"
> by Hilaire Belloc. ...and in that context what is being distributed is

> *land*, as private property to be lived on, farmed and passed on to 
> children. 

If you believe there is a single valid concept in that whole
populist/agrarian bullshit I can shoot it down, otherwise it is not
worth my time.

	Matt




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 21:22:42 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: anti-spam lesson Re: Earn your worth not mlm!!! 330-258-9131
Message-ID: <199810141250.OAA17845@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----


this guy knows this is a mailing list by the way he forged the from header. 
he knew the administrator address for the list.   Quick anti-spam note  by
looking at the received header all the way on the bottom of all of them we
see that the originating host was:
a modem slip account from detroit michigan on the at&t service.

that is about the best we can do as far as establishing this persons
identity, but a copy of the message including the headers forwarded to abuse
or postmaster @att.net of the message will have the problem resolved in no
time.  If everyone takes 2 min to do this it will definiately get the
account removed.  I guess I just do this for revenge though.  It is fun
getting all of the cancellation notices in your e-mail.'


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Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 18:41:54 -0700 (PDT) 
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To: cypherpunks@toad.com 
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aWOKpRY/vcXH6NUAQU1dDW4wh/DU3KXWwISJfItjl8u37HiEofmq0A==
=b4+H
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Rabid Wombat 
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 00:02:06 +0800
To: Eric Cordian 
Subject: Re: IP: ISP not liable for customer's messages
In-Reply-To: <199810160639.BAA18347@wire.insync.net>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





On Fri, 16 Oct 1998, Eric Cordian wrote:

> 
> > An appeals court in Florida has ruled against a woman who sued 
> > America Online because one of its customers, a convicted sex 
> > offender, used an AOL chat group to try to sell the woman's 
> > 11-year-old son a pornographic video. The court said that federal law 
> > protects online services from being held liable for the messages 
> > transmitted by their members sell the videotape of the boy. The 
> > defeated lawsuit, which is being appealed to the Supreme Court, tried 
> > to characterize America Online as "a home shopping network for 
> > pedophiles and child pornographers."  (AP/Washington Post 15 Oct 98)
> 
> As I recall, the individual was trying to sell a pornographic video
> featuring the woman's 11 year old son, which is another thing entirely.
> 

Not really. If the service providor is to be held accountable for what 
its members post/say/etc., they would have to monitor *all* traffic in 
order to police their members. In addition, even if the providor *were* 
monitoring, they can only be reactive - do you expect them to monitor and 
censor all traffic before releasing it?

Looks like an attempt to bring in a "deep pockets" defendant.

-r.w.
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 21:52:35 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: son (Gomez is coming!)
Message-ID: <199810141319.PAA20572@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Son of Mother Of All Chapters -- SPACE ALIENS HIDE MY DRUGS!!!
_________________________________________________________

July, 1948:
The moment has come when the costumes, the grease paint, the falsely

colored scenery, the technicolored spotlights and all the other artifices
of 
makeYDup should be put aside and, in the interest of truth, the solid
facts 
about the play and the players revealed to the people. 
~ The Roosevelt Myth, Preface to the Popsvox PublishingR edition 

Dec. 7, 1941
The Lake of Life has started to turn over. The bottom is rising to
the top, the 
top is descending to the bottom, and everything is becoming the opposite
of 
what it seems to be.
~ Vice-Admiral B. D'Shauneaux, USN

~~~
~~~

Version 1.7, Rev B:
Saturday morning, March 4, 1933...the conquering Democrats poured into

the city...
Only a week before an assassin's bullet had barely missed Roosevelt.
It
struck Anton Cermak, the Bohemian mayor and boss of Chicago, who with

Al Smith, had opposed Roosevelt's nomination...and died a few days
later. 

Version 2.7, Rev. 3:
On February 1, 1933, in Miami, Florida Giuseppe Zangara fired five
shots a President-elect Franklin D. Roosevelt, who was making an 
impromptu speech while sitting in an open car that had stopped momentarily.

Although none of the shots hit President Roosevelt, Zangara mortally

wounded Anton Cermak, the Mayor of Chicago, and hit four other people,
including a Secret Service agent.

Version 3.9, Rev. 2-B:
On February 15, 1933, Zangara attended a speech given by Roosevelt
at 
Bayfront Park in Miami, Florida.
When Roosevelt had finished his talk and was preparing to leave, Zangara

pulled out a pistol and opened fire.
Zangara wounded five people who had been near the president-elect,
two of 
them seriously. Most critically injured was Chicago Mayor Anton Cermak,

who was struck by the bullet in the chest which then lodged in his
spine. 

Version 4.9, Rev. 8C:
The parade car moved slowly down the street as President-elect Roosevelt

and Mayor Cermak smiled and waved. The car stopped and President-elect

Roosevelt gave a speech while sitting on the back of the car. A man
named 
Guiseppe Zangara pushed through the crowd. He fired five shots at the

President-elect. The bullets hit four people and Mayor Cermak.

Version 15.6, Rev. 7:
On March 6, Mayor Cermak died from complications stemming
from the shooting. The same day Zangara was indicted by a
grand jury and charged with first degree murder in the death of
Cermak. His trial began on March 9 and ended on March 11
with a guilty verdict and a death sentence. The prisoner was
transported to the Florida State Prison at Raiford, where he was
executed on March 20, 1933. 

Version 18.9, Rev. 5D:
Mayor Anton J. Cermak died three weeks later, on March 8, 1933. His

body was taken back to Chicago and buried in the Bohemian National

Cemetery.
Guiseppe Zangara was executed in the electric chair on March 21, 1933.

That was only 13 days after Mayor Cermak died.

Version 32.9, Rev. 12:
Consider the case of Guiseppe Zangara, who was executed in 1933 for
the

attempted assassination of President-elect Franklin D. Roosevelt in
which 
Chicago Mayor Anton J. Cermak was fatally shot. Zangara pleaded guilty
in 
state court on March 10, was sentenced to death, and was executed on
March 20 -- an interval of 10 days!

Version 82, Rev. 5Q:
After Roosevelt had delivered a speech in Florida on February 14, 1938,

Guiseppe Zangara, an unemployed bricklayer, fired six shots from a
handgun 
at Roosevelt from twelve yards away. The president-elect, who was sitting
in an open car, was uninjured but five other people were shot, including

Chicago mayor Anton Cernak, who was killed. 

Version 95, Rev. 8:
On February 15, 1933, Guiseppe Zangara rose early...






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 05:37:08 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: DNA (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810142112.QAA13929@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: Matthew James Gering 
> Subject: RE: DNA
> Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 12:34:07 -0700

> > But what about identical sib's.  They all
> > have exactly the same DNA!

Actualy identical twins will only share about 50% of their DNA. They get 50%
from each parent randomly. This means that only about 25% of the DNA will
match their sibling from either parent.

> Or a clone ;). 

This of course ignores transcription errors, environment issues, etc. It is
possible that even a clone would have protein discrepencies which trace back
to DNA strands that end up different than the original source organism. As
the organism develops and ages these issues can become quite important. This
aspect of DNA matching has gotten the short shift for sure.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 00:23:01 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: more Toto keys... so what's it all mean
Message-ID: <199810141529.QAA32138@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Someone asked me in email what the meaning of the last 3 posts I made,
the plethora of public and private keys, discrete log attacked,
deadbeefed, forged, factored, decrypted etc. getting confusing.

The 3 messages I wrote this morning go together, -- they are all on
the same post by anonymous/Toto, just me realising more things about
it.  Here's what happened (play along if you like):

a) I tried fetching the key the message was encrypted to (try to
decrypt it -- it will tell you what keyid you need) from a keyserver

b) I noticed that the public key I fetched is the 384 bit blacknet key
which Paul Leyland broke (clue was the key on the keyservers is
revoked, and only 384 bits, which made me remember Leyland's
factoring attack),

c) used altavista to find Leyland's announce to sci.crypt a few years
back which included the private key he obtained by factoring the 384
bit blacknet public key

d) decrypted the message with the blacknet private key, 

e) inside the message was a public and private key, at this point
whoopee yet another Toto key (post 1), 

f) wondered if this key was the one which signed the messages the IRS
has incarcerated CJ over, checked the signature, yes! (post 2),

g) tried to sign a message with the key -- oops it has a password
because the private key is encrypted, 

h) tried the passwords that John Young forwarded to the list a few
weeks back from some anonymous source, yup one of them decrypts the
private key, and we are able to make signatures! (post 3).


As to what it means -- it means that one or more others could have
been the author of the message the IRS claim Carl Johnson wrote.  Heck
anyone could sign posts with that key now.

The allegations that CJ was sharing the "carljohn" account at
sympatico with hackers may also be interesting especially if anyone is
still able to verify that the account details are correct (who knows
-- maybe the account is still active! -- anyone want to try?), because
it throws even further into doubt (aside from the doubt arising from
the numerous forgeries surrounding Toto) the IRS presumption that all
things apparently sent from sympatico were written by CJ ...

Perhaps Jeff and fellow IRS agents could ask sympatico if they are
able to verify the validity of the account details.

Adam
-- 
print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<>
)]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 09:35:04 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: DNA
In-Reply-To: <000401bdf77a$fe720d00$932580d0@xasper8d>
Message-ID: <3624C5C3.F563A50F@email.sps.mot.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Because the fingerprint pattern is not genetically pre-determined.  It is
apparently part of the fetal development process.  Minor environmental
differences and random cell division differences will make the prints
different even between identical twins.

X wrote:

> DNA of identical siblings is identical?  I guess that makes sense, since
> we're really split after conception...  so explain why my brother has smooth
> hands and fingers with almost no prints (lucky bastard!) and mine look like
> mother teresa's face... (probably more now than before, eh?)
>
> X
>






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 00:50:39 +0800
To: jim@acm.org
Subject: attribution for 384 bit BlackNet factoring (Re: ATTN:, sog's keys 4 sale)
In-Reply-To: <3624BFD1.7BB0BF77@acm.org>
Message-ID: <199810141615.RAA32755@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Jim Gillogly writes:
> Adam Back writes:
> > Type Bits/KeyID    Date       User ID
> > pub   384/5A5AD16B 1994/02/11 *** KEY REVOKED ***
> >                               BlackNet
> >
> > A revoked key, and a rather small key size, this rings a bell, some of
> > you may recall that some time ago Paul Leyland factored that key.
> 
> For the record, that key was factored by a team consisting of Paul Leyland,
> Arjen Lenstra, Alec Muffett, and Jim Gillogly.

Yes sorry about that.  The name that I remembered in association with
the attack was Leyland, probably because he posted the announce.

Credit where credit is due.

Adam




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 05:54:38 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Tim May Investigations
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



And here I thought Tim was born in Virginia, or something...

;-).

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga

--- begin forwarded text


> Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 17:00:01 -0400
> From: rah-web 
> Reply-To: rah@shipwright.com
> Organization: Philodox
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> To: rah@shipwright.com
> Subject: Tim May Investigations
>
> http://www.fwp.net/timmayinvestigations/
> 	 		 
>
>  		 	 	 		 
> 			P.O. Box 3081, Frederick, MD 21705
> Voice: 301.695.2662 or 800.723.7026
> Fax: 301.695.4009 / Email:  TMayDetect@aol.com
>
>
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>
>
>
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>
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>
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>
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>
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>
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>
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>
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>
> 	Mr. May currently serves as a Judge for Probate Court
>
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>Fire Marshall of Maryland 			from 1974-1983. Prior to that, Mr.
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>
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>
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>(ATF), Federal Bureau 			of Investigation (F.B.I.), and expert
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>
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>
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>
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>
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>
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>
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> 			The projected cost is provided after a FREE initial
>consultation. We believe this approach allows 			the maximum
>degree of confidence and peace of mind.
>
>
> 			Your Full Service Agency. . .
> Tim May Investigations
> 			P.O. Box 3081, Frederick, MD 21705
> Voice: 301.695.2662 or 800.723.7026
> Fax: 301.695.4009 / Email:  TMayDetect@aol.com
>
>
> You are Vistor Number	293 Since January 20, 1998
>

--- end forwarded text

-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 06:13:55 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Gary Burnore vs. Earth (Was: Value of Annon. Remailers)
Message-ID: <199810142147.RAA08216@panix7.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



   >   From: Anonymous 
   >
   >   Information Security  wrote:
   >
   >   > Let us know when you have an original thought.
   >
   >   Ad hominem often comes in handy...

You are too touchy to be on the Internet, leave now! ;-)

   >   >    >   From: Missouri FreeNet Administration 
   >   >    >
   >   >    >   Obviously, as defenders of this man's right to post material offensive
   >   >    >   to Burnore, we too came under attack.
   >   > 
   >   > One man's attack is another's defense.
   >
   >   I'll have to remember that one.  Some defense lawyers in Wyoming
   >   might want to use it in their clients' trial for their "defense"
   >   against that gay student.

You are equating speech to physical violence.

Not a good way to defend anonymizers.

   >   Now about Gary Burnore's "defense" against the underaged daughter of
   >   his girlfriend...

Like, why should cypherpunks care? You said it's not causing
you a connectivity problem.

You are boring everyone for no known reason.

   >   >    >    The point here is that what little survives about this lunatic child
   >   >    >   molester (he has even successfully had his North Carolina Sex Offender record
   >   >    >   removed!),...
   >   > 
   >   > Gee, why don't you ask North Carolina why, in writing?
   >
   >   Irrelevant.  The North Carolina website of registered sex offenders
   >   was only the vehicle by which the truth about Gary Burnore's
   >   existing conviction in California became known.  Depublishing it in
   >   NC on some technicality...

What technicality?

   >   which sentenced him to probation and required him to register
   >   as a sex offender.

I wonder if Pee Wee Herman had to register.

   >   Perhaps the original whistleblower's e-mailed warnings led
   >   or contributed to Burnore's arrest, and to the resulting
   >   psychiatric treatment which may have protected future
   >   potential victims.

Just a bunch of nutters flaming each other endlessly.
---guy




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 09:28:11 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: RE: DNA (fwd)
Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A193A7A69@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Monozygotic [maternal] twins do have the same DNA. Hence they are
identical. Genetically identical that is, there are non-genetic
variations. Dizygotic [fraternal] twins do not. Fraternal twins can be
visually nearly identical, but they are not genetically identical.

Clones on the otherhand and have identical nuclear DNA, but are not
necessarily identical because some early development processes rely on
maternal genome material and not nuclear DNA, and depending on the
cloning process they may have different mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA).

	Matt


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Choate [mailto:ravage@einstein.ssz.com]

> > > But what about identical sib's.  They all
> > > have exactly the same DNA!
> 
> Actualy identical twins will only share about 50% of their 
> DNA. They get 50% from each parent randomly. This means 
> that only about 25% of the DNA will match their sibling 
> from either parent.
> 
> > Or a clone ;). 
> 
> This of course ignores transcription errors, environment 
> issues, etc. It is possible that even a clone would 
> have protein discrepencies which trace back to DNA strands
> that end up different than the original source  organism. As
> the organism develops and ages these issues can become quite 
> important. This aspect of DNA matching has gotten the short 
> shift for sure.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Richard.Bragg@ssa.co.uk
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 01:37:28 +0800
To: xasper8d@lobo.net
Subject: RE: DNA
Message-ID: <8025669D.005D7FCE.00@seunt002e.ssa.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Ok so the genotype is the same (same DNA) but the phenotype is different
(what you see).  It's more complex than
this but there are all sorts of ways that genes express themselves and how
this can be changed.

A good dose of phenol or benzene can do wonders to your genetic material.
A trip to Windscale (sorry Selafield) to
inspect the inside of the reactor vessel etc all has an effect.  DNA
testing would probably never look at
the entire sequence anyway.  It would look at enough to give near unique
markers.  Using a "drill down" technique to
gradually exclude until only one remains.

ie normal number of gene pairs  (not many people live with duff code in
here but there are some)
male vs female   (50%)
blood group
etc
Why use actual matching until you need to, it's expensive.  You get down to
a handful and test those on a wider range of codes.   You hope the samples
are good and the genes haven't been damaged or contaminated.

Don't rely on the science.  The science is our tool NOT us of the science.
We already rely too much on
the technology, science, methods etc.  This is not a scientific way of
working.

Anyway have fun!!

Hwyl





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 00:51:25 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Use encryption to foil spooks' data harvesting, says US state dept
Message-ID: <199810141617.SAA07987@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain






http://ds.state.gov/documents/protect.doc

·Most international U.S. corporate telecommunications are not encrypted.
Some countries do not allow encryption of telecommuni-cations traffic
within their borders, but it should be considered where feasible for any
transmission of competitive information.

·Many telecommunications transmissions will contain "key words", used to
identify information of interest to a third party.  A key word can be the
name of a technology, product, project, or anything else which may identify
the subject of the transmission.  

·       Encryption should be the first line of defense since it is easier
for foreign intelligence services to monitor lines than to place "bugs",
however encryption will provide little if any security if a careful
examination for audio "bugs" elsewhere in the room is not conducted.









From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 07:58:28 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: I saw the craziest thing last night...
Message-ID: <199810142343.SAA14539@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



I wanted to share with you an experience perhaps worth contemplating...

Around 8pm or so last nite I got hungry and the dogs looked at me with those
big brown "Help me" eyes and off we trundle to the golden arches. I drive
over the 5-6 blocks to N. Lamar and head north. It's about 2 miles or so
max. As I get to Mickey Dee's I realize that there is a street bum in the
road. There is S. bound traffic and he's about halfway across when I notice
the cars are getting pretty close. Well about this time a vehicle with no
lights (yet it's after dark) but yellow running lights (I believe that's
illegal in this state) begins to continously sound its horn as it approaches
the crosser. No apparent attempt to slow down or change lanes was made. The
car ended up missing the guy by less than 3 ft.

What was really a riot was it was an Austin Police car.

Unfortunately I don't read well backward at night so I didn't get a vehicle
id or a license so this qualifies as nothing more than another net rumor.

It's pretty damn bad when the police resort to assault with a motor vehicle
to control street people.

Can the recent Supreme Court ruling allowing police to kill you in a
high-speed chase as an innocent bystander to protect you from the perp with
complete immunity be extended to pursuit of an unrepentant donut?

When I was a kid it used to say "To Protect and Serve", not "To Protect or
Kill". Isn't the point of a public servant to *serve* the people in a
decent, respectful manner? If taken as a given then it's clear that public
safety *always* takes precedence over 'catch the crook'. It's better to let
the perp run through a neighborhood he's already going to go through and
spend resources getting people into their homes and out of the way than it
is to prove what a dairing-do bunch of local boys can do catching outlaws,
but killing some of the local folks in the process. I appreciate the
potential for hostages (even entire neighborhoods) but please explain how
this ruling changes those instances in any way?

Perhaps we need an amendment that provides a proviso on the rulings of the
Supreme Court. Instead of these sorts of dicta having the weight of law,
which it shouldn't have since it's not legislative, they should be required
to be handed over to Congress for resolution via the normal law making
process. This would limit the Supreme Court to interpretations of existing
law (per the 9th & 10th Amendment).

We definitely need an end to the post-Vietnam, post-Cold War testosterone
rush we're living in now. Like it or not, the more initialy confrontational
the government gets the more violence it will beget. And trying to justify
those strategies by claiming a responce to a rise in violence only begs the
question. Perhaps this realization is at least one reason that the equality
of the federal level, state level, and individual civil rights has become so
critical and so ignored.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 08:08:43 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Limited Impeachment Probes...
Message-ID: <199810142358.SAA14635@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



	The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments.  When 
sitting for that Purpose, they shall be on Oath or Affirmation.  When the 
President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: 
and no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two thirds of 
the Members present. 

	Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to 
removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of 
honor, Trust or Profit under the United States: but the Party convicted 
shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and 
Punishment, according to Law. 

 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

This would seem to indicate that the only issue a federal prosecutor needs
to be interested in is proving *some* illegal act took place. Not what that
act may have actualy been, though describing it may be required.

Once that is resolved the other legal aspects fall to the attorney general
or district attorney in the appropriate region.

With that in mind, its pretty interesting at all the money and effort that's
been spent on nothing that is materialy relevant to the issue at hand.

Though it is interesting that the issue of profit (running a business?)
comes up in the consequences.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Edwin E. Smith" 
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 07:47:39 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Art Bell
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19981014191414.007eb6c0@mailhost.IntNet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Is Art Bell related to Jim Bell?

The following was sent via LibertyWire:

Bell Tolls No More
Wired News Report
http://www.wired.com/news/news/culture/story/15588.html
http://www.artbell.com/artquits.html

2:25 p.m.  13.Oct.98.PDT

Art Bell, the popular host of the late-night
radio show "Coast To Coast AM" is turning
off his microphone indefinitely. 

In Bell's Tuesday morning show he told
listeners, "... a threatening terrible event
tell you about. Because of that event,
and a succession of other events, what
you're listening to right now, is my final
broadcast on the air." 







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 02:29:35 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Gary Burnore vs. Earth (Was: Value of Annon. Remailers)
Message-ID: <199810141756.TAA18997@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Missouri FreeNet Administration  wrote:

> First off, let us state up front that this is an aside to the previous
> poster, and not totally on-point: feel free to hit the delete key, and
> accept our apologies if this is a problem.
> 
> About two months ago, we met the infamous Burnore & Company while 
> defending a semi-annonymous UseNet poster calling himself "Outlaw-Frog-Raper".
> It seems that in classical Burnore style "OFR" found himself the sudden
> victim of [literally] daily TOS/SPAM complaints by Burnore and Co. for making
> use of UseNet to air his decidedly anti-police positions (it's odd how "pro
> police" Burnore is, isn't it?).  

Given Gary Burnore's criminal record, he needs all the sucking up to
the police he can get.  In addition to his arrest and conviction for
molesting his girlfriend's daughter in Santa Clara, CA, he was also
arrested for unlawful assembly for his participation in Critical
Mass' bicycle blockade of the streets of San Francisco during rush
hour. (See: http://www.e-media.com/cm/sac.html )

And this criminal has the chutzpah to try and be a net Nazi as well.
This same self-righteous individual once lectured another netizen
about how it's wrong to "fight abuse with abuse".
 
>         Obviously, as defenders of this man's right to post material offensive
> to Burnore, we too came under attack.  Fortunately, we have been with
> our upstream provider for a long time, and are on *very* good terms: they told
> Burnore to keep his complaints to himself.  But I digress...

The best defense against censorious cretins like Gary Burnore is
education.  That's what the victims of the infamous "Rev."  Steve
Winter (who also lives in Raleigh, NC, BTW) had to do to counteract
his abusive tactics.  A "Steve Winter FAQ" was compiled and posted
to Usenet as well as being published on the web.  People who are the
subject of his harassment tactics have something to show to their
ISPs, employers, etc. when Winter makes his bogus threats.

>         As this "war" intensified, we attempted to determine just who in the hell
> this lunatic *was*, as nobody here is a regular Usenet follower (just when
> we have our slow periods, we'll check in with the loons to kill a couple of
> hours...).  To our surprise, we discovered that while Burnore/Databasix/etc.
> are known far and wide, the actual traffic that passes between them and the rest
> of the Earthly population is pretty well eradicated.  Here's a guy who has actually
> sat down and deleted (according to DejaNews) *tens of thousands* of his -own- posts!
> Not to mention the unknown number of posts which he has "thoughtfully taken care of
> for those others who forgot to do so themselves"...

This is the same Gary Burnore who cajoled an anonymous whistleblower
for "hiding behind a remailer" and boasted "I have nothing to hide",
although he himself attempts to gain plausible deniability for his
own posts by preventing an impartial third party from archiving
them, then claiming they were "forged" if he inserted his foot too
far into his mouth.

Not only does Gary hide his own posts behind an X-No-Archive header,
but posts critical of him have a tendency to be cancelled through
forgery.  He screwed up once and cancelled a post critical of him
that was cross-posted to one of the news.admin.net-abuse.* NGs.
Unfortunately for him, an anti-cancel-bot on that NG reposted the
cancelled message along with a copy of the forged cancellation
message sent by ... guess who ...  Gary Burnore!  Oops, Gary, can
you say "busted"?

>         The point here is that what little survives about this lunatic child
> molester (he has even successfully had his North Carolina Sex Offender record
> removed!), has almost all come through *some* annonymizer.  Whether a MixMaster,
> or Cajones (RIP) "intentional annonymizer", or an "unintentional annonymizer" 
> such as a large [cypherpunks] listserv with "bad headers".

By his own account, Gary Burnore spent nearly $30K getting the child
molestation charge plea-bargained down to a misdemeanor.  My guess
is that he has no money left to carry through on his idle threats of
frivolous legal action against those on his lengthy enemies list.
For example, when Jeff Burchell demanded a letter from Gary's lawyer
when he was demanding that Jeff turn over his remailer logs to
DataBasix, what Jeff received was a letter from Gary's girlfriend
Belinda Bryan  impersonating a lawyer.  For
Jeff's account of that episode, visit:

  http://calvo.teleco.ulpgc.es/listas/cypherpunks@infonex.com/HTML-1997-11/msg00536.html

>         We submit that it only takes one successful argument, even though there be
> a million such arguments available, to "proof" the value of an annoymous remailer.
> we then extend the original Burnore story (presented in part below) in further
> support.

It proves that censorship need not originate with a governmental
body.  All it takes is a determined individual with more time
available to harass than his victims do to defend against it.

> Yes, I know, at least half of you are sitting here going "now why did they
> bother us with that?".  The answer is we feel VERY strongly that if not for
> what [little] we were able to find as a result of A/R's, we would never have
> been able to figure this clown out at all.  And loco though he may be, he is
> also a *prodigious* pain in the ass, who represents a real, true threat to
> what little freedoms we still have in the US.  Burnore isn't a loner in the
> political sense: he's actually becoming pretty mainstream.  If A/R's can help
> to keep scum like him in the light, where he can't hide his hypocrises [sp?]
> through a cancel or "DejaNuke", then they are one of our most important national
> resources, and should be defended (and *funded*) as such!

The problem is that most dissidents have a weak point somewhere
where they are vulnerable, whether it be a censorious hate mail
campaign to his/her ISP or employer, mail bombing, spam baiting,
forged mailing list subscriptions, or one of countless other
denial-of-service attacks that Gary Burnore, Belinda Bryan, Billy
McClatchie (aka "Wotan"), or otther members of the DataBasix abuse
factory can conjure up.

> Just our [very biased] $.02 worth...
> 
> The full-time [yet totally volunteer] staff of Missouri FreeNet:
> 
>         J.A. Terranson, sysadmin@mfn.org
>         John Blau, jb214@mfn.org
>         Beatrice Hynes, beatrice@mfn.org
>         Frescenne "M", support@mfn.org
>         A. Pates, support@mfn.org
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
> Consider the episode last year with Gary Burnore and DataBasix vs.
> Jeff Burchell and his Mailmasher and Huge Cajones machines.
> Made-to-order abuse appeared right on cue to reinforce the claims
> that Burnore and his girlfriend Belinda Bryan had made.  And now
> we've learned the real truth behind the whole episode.  While Gary
> Burnore was living with another girlfriend in Santa Clara, CA, he
> was also molesting her teenaged daughter.  An anonymous
> whistleblower attempted to warn the girl's mother as well as her
> school officials by anonymous e-mail.  Burnore went ballistic and
> falsely claimed "harassment".  But the whistleblower was ultimately
> vindicated when Burnore pled guilty to the molestation charge, was
> placed on probation, and was required to register as a sex offender.
> Unable to silence the whistleblower, Burnore began a campaign of
> harassment against the operators of the remailers that were being
> used to expose him.  IOW, if you can't refute the message, shoot the
> messenger.  And if you can't shoot the messenger, attempt to disable
> his means of communication (the remailers net).
> 
> I recounted this case history, which can be researched in various
> usenet archives by anyone interested, just to demonstrate that one
> man's "harassment" can well be another man's investigative
> journalism, even if the journalist or whistleblower is not in a
> position to expose him/herself to retaliation by the wrongdoer,
> which has been (coincidentally?) reported by virtually anyone who
> has dared to challenge Gary Burnore publicly.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 11:35:27 +0800
To: cypherpunks-unedited@toad.com>
Subject: Re: LUGGAGE, GARMENT BAGS, BREIFCASES, ETC.
In-Reply-To: <199810150039.RAA24551@toad.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 5:07 AM -0700 10/15/98, sendus@earthcorp.com wrote:
>Dear reader,
>
>We have just visited your website and became interested to develop a
>trading relationship with you company.
>
>We are a major manufacturer of a full range of luggage, bags, and
>trolleys.For full details
>mailto:sendus@earthcorp.com?Subject=BESTPLUS_IDUSTRIES_LTD.
>
>Thank you very much,
>
>Ms. Anges Lek,
>Managing Director
>

Thank you for posting this to our list!

We are very interested in specialized types of luggage. We seek suitcases
and briefcases in which various items may be hidden. The usual items:
money, papers, drugs, chemicals, and various pyrotechnic assemblies.

Please describe your experience in fabricating such items, and please list
some of your more famous clients.

Warning: We have very high standards! The luggage we use now has been used
to export the PGP source code disks to Finland and Holland, and such
esteemed travellers as Pablo Escobar, Abu Nidal, and the Engineer have used
the same products we use.

We look forward to your reply.

--Asama bin May, Director of Delivery Operations, World Liberation Front






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 09:46:58 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: DNA (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810150122.UAA15016@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: Matthew James Gering 
> Subject: RE: DNA (fwd)
> Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 18:04:32 -0700

> Monozygotic [maternal] twins do have the same DNA. Hence they are
> identical.

In my earlier post I got the naming on the type of twin incorrect, it
shouldn't have been identical. I was trying to explain that aspect in the
second paragraph. My mistake.

> Clones on the otherhand and have identical nuclear DNA, but are not
> necessarily identical because some early development processes rely on
> maternal genome material and not nuclear DNA, and depending on the
> cloning process they may have different mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA).

I assume the mitochondrial differences are due to nucleus swapping,
different line of extra-nuclear heritage?


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Richard Stallman 
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 09:10:41 +0800
To: aba@dcs.ex.ac.uk
Subject: Re: overlapping aims -- cypherpunks/FSF (Re: Two? ways people could use your code)
In-Reply-To: <199810141057.LAA28762@server.eternity.org>
Message-ID: <199810150056.UAA07890@psilocin.gnu.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



    Would you be interested in publishing GNUPG, and other GNU crypto
    utilities and libraries under GNU LGPL?

We might use the LGPL for some of these libraries.  The decision
depends on the details of the situation for any particular library, so
I don't want to try to decide in advance.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 03:39:30 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Gary Burnore vs. Earth (Was: Value of Annon. Remailers)
Message-ID: <199810141901.VAA27568@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Information Security  wrote:

>    >   From: Missouri FreeNet Administration 
>    >
>    >   Obviously, as defenders of this man's right to post material offensive
>    >   to Burnore, we too came under attack.
> 
> One man's attack is another's defense.

I'll have to remember that one.  Some defense lawyers in Wyoming
might want to use it in their clients' trial for their "defense"
against that gay student.

Now about Gary Burnore's "defense" against the underaged daughter of
his girlfriend...

>    >    The point here is that what little survives about this lunatic child
>    >   molester (he has even successfully had his North Carolina Sex Offender record
>    >   removed!),...
> 
> Gee, why don't you ask North Carolina why, in writing?

Irrelevant.  The North Carolina website of registered sex offenders
was only the vehicle by which the truth about Gary Burnore's
existing conviction in California became known.  Depublishing it in
NC on some technicality doesn't alter the fact of the original
offense for which Gary Burnore pled guilty in a Santa Clara, CA
court, which sentenced him to probation and required him to register
as a sex offender.

And given Burnore's pattern of harassment ... er, "defense" ... of
those who criticize him, the ability of someone with knowledge of
the facts to freely speak without fear of retaliation enabled the
public to learn the truth.  Perhaps the original whistleblower's
e-mailed warnings led or contributed to Burnore's arrest, and to the
resulting psychiatric treatment which may have protected future
potential victims.

> Let us know when you have an original thought.

Ad hominem often comes in handy...




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 05:30:13 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: hey DIRNSA: can't talk to allies
Message-ID: <199810142054.WAA13575@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




COMMUNICATIONS SECURITY 

TITLE: COMSEC - Secure Voice Telephones 

LESSON LEARNED: NATO elements must learn to use the standard secure
telephones. 

BACKGROUND: For future NATO-led operations, it must be stressed that the
NATO secure telephone standard is the STU IIB.
Augmenting forces must bring compatible equipment if it stays under
national control. Must come to grips with the US and NATO
secure telephones within the command. 

There are problems associated with US and NATO secure telephones: The STU
III/STU IIIA has not been released to NATO, so they
should be eliminated from the NATO comm system. The NATO standard is the
STU IIIB, only the STU IIB is compatible with the
STU IIIA. Cannot adhere to US security regulations for protecting US secure
voice systems in an allied environment. 

RECOMMENDATION: Consider a letter to DIRNSA requesting relaxation of
current US policy. 

http://call.army.mil/call/spc%5Fprod/5sigcd/2tact.htm







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Edwin E. Smith" 
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 12:34:48 +0800
To: Tim May 
Subject: Re: LUGGAGE, GARMENT BAGS, BREIFCASES, ETC.
In-Reply-To: <199810150039.RAA24551@toad.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19981015000807.007e6a40@mailhost.IntNet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Slow night for ya, eh Tim? I wonder why people waste keystrokes on 
this crap (like I am). How's the survivalist thing going? Don't you 
live out there near Taft. Any thought on the recent ATF raid?

In Liberty

Edwin

At 07:58 PM 10/14/98 -0700, you wrote:
>At 5:07 AM -0700 10/15/98, sendus@earthcorp.com wrote:
>>Dear reader,
>>
>>We have just visited your website and became interested to develop 
a
>>trading relationship with you company.
>>
>>We are a major manufacturer of a full range of luggage, bags, and
>>trolleys.For full details
>>mailto:sendus@earthcorp.com?Subject=BESTPLUS_IDUSTRIES_LTD.
>>
>>Thank you very much,
>>
>>Ms. Anges Lek,
>>Managing Director
>>
>
>Thank you for posting this to our list!
>
>We are very interested in specialized types of luggage. We seek 
suitcases
>and briefcases in which various items may be hidden. The usual 
items:
>money, papers, drugs, chemicals, and various pyrotechnic assemblies.
>
>Please describe your experience in fabricating such items, and 
please list
>some of your more famous clients.
>
>Warning: We have very high standards! The luggage we use now has 
been used
>to export the PGP source code disks to Finland and Holland, and such
>esteemed travellers as Pablo Escobar, Abu Nidal, and the Engineer 
have used
>the same products we use.
>
>We look forward to your reply.
>
>--Asama bin May, Director of Delivery Operations, World Liberation 
Front
>
>
>
>
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0
Charset: noconv

iQA/AwUBNiV1JkmNf6b56PAtEQK5ywCggnfERwJiLn58xXzHKYtKXB3skNAAnjOy
kTzcFy0QtrJz9KT5Heuzcq3w
=iNaM
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


When freedom is outlawed.......Only outlaws will be free!

If cryptography is outlawed, pomz pvumbxt xjmm ibwf dszquphsbqiz.

Fun! Fast! Revealing! Try "The World's Smallest Political Quiz" at:
   http://www.self-gov.org/quiz.html

IS AIDS A GOVERNMENT/DRUG COMPANY HOAX?
   http://www.virusmyth.com/aids/index.htm

When you blame others, you give up your power to change.
Dr. Robert Anthony

Libertarian Party of Hillsborough County, FL
   http://home.tampabay.rr.com/lphc

When a place gets crowded enough to require ID's, social collapse is not far
away. It is time to go elsewhere. The best thing about space travel is that
it made it possible to go elsewhere.

Lazarus Long




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 16:03:21 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Fwd: Strom Thurmond Drafts Bill Prohibiting Telegraph Porn
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981015003439.008c35b0@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Strom Thurmond Drafts Bill Prohibiting Telegraph Porn

http://www.theonion.com/onion3408/telegraphporn.html

Strom Thurmond Drafts Bill Prohibiting Telegraph Porn

      WASHINGTON, DC--Contending that morse-coded descriptions of
improperly petticoated young ladies are undermining the morals of American
boys yet in short pants, U.S. Sen. Strom Thurmond (R-SC) proposed
legislation Monday banning telegraph porn.

      "My friends, this revolutionary new 'Tele-graph' technology, by which
messages are transmitted across vast distances via cable wire, is indeed a
wondrous device," Thurmond told fellow members of the Senate. "But certain
telegraphers--most corrupt and foul telegraphy men indeed--have debased Mr.
Morse's code by using its ingenious dots and dashes to transmit
porno-graphs describing flagrantly uncorseted womenfolk. I submit to you,
gentlemen, that laws be passed to prevent the tele-graph device from
becoming a machine of ill repute!"

      Thurmond's proposed legislation would establish stiff penalties for
the transmission of certain obscene words and phrases along Western Union's
telegram and telegraph wires, including "merry-widow," "bosom," and
"underthings," as well as prohibit the use of the word "legs" instead of
"limbs" when referring to the female anatomy. In certain contexts, the
words"disheveled" and "heaving" would also be regarded as violations of the
law, with perpetrators subject to fines of $50 or seven years hard labor on
the proposed trans-American steam railroad.

      "As our nation recovers from the depredations and ruin of the recent
War Of Northern Aggression, we must not permit the tele-graph to become the
Devil's instrument," said Thurmond, 95. "Mr. Morse's messaging device must
not be allowed to corrupt the hearts and minds of the Republic's youths!"


[...more...]





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 09:46:52 +0800
To: minow@pobox.com
Subject: Re: ATTN: BlackNet, sog's keys 4 sale
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199810150105.CAA02529@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Martin Minow  writes:
> Adam Back  notes that the "Toto death thread"
> posting was signed using the "son of Gomer" Blacknet key that
> was broken by Paul Leyland (read through the past few days of the
> archives to get the context).

Note the `son of gomez' key was _encrypted with_ the Blacknet key.
Toto/anonymous was submitting his information for sale to Blacknet, so
he used a `digital dead drop' -- encrypted with Blacknet's key and
posted in a public place (cypherpunks), however he (it appears
intentionally) used the weak 384 bit Blacknet key which Paul Leyland's
announce claims was created by Larry Detweiler.

Also note that Paul Leyland (and Alec Muffett, Arjen Lenstra, Jim
Gillogly) factored that key a _long_ time ago, Jun 1995 (see the Date
on the attachment of the announce to one of my earlier posts.)

Perhaps you understood that, but what you wrote (son of Gomer Blacknet
key?) was confusing.

> Adam notes: "Implications?  Others had CJs keys?  Toto is someone
> other than CJ?"
> 
> One other implication to consider: you might be able to attain
> semi-deniability by siging a message with a key that is breakable
> by an adversity with govermental resources (to use an euphamism)
> but not by an ordinary, presumably less motivated, cracker.

This is similar to the time-delay crypto proposals made by Tim May and
more lately David Wagner, (and some other authors who I forget, I
think Schneier).  One of the time-delay crypto protocols is to encrypt
the information one wants to a time-delayed release of with weak
encryption requiring the approximate amount of time you wish to delay
to break.

'Course it doesn't work in general because it depends entirely on the
resources of the attacker.  Really you need a third party to publish
private keys at delayed intervals.

But for your suggested applicatoin -- plausible deniability for
`speaking truth to kings' -- it works fine, because that's the point,
plausible deniability against well resourced attackers (you are in
trouble if well resourced attackers are interested in you anyway), but
some value to the signature for low resourced attackers.

Other ways to provide plausible deniability is to not sign public
posts, and to use non-transferable signatures for private email.

Adam




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 10:43:36 +0800
To: minow@pobox.com
Subject: plausible deniability (Re: ATTN: BlackNet, sog's keys 4 sale)
In-Reply-To: <199810150105.CAA02529@server.eternity.org>
Message-ID: <199810150200.DAA02609@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




I wrote discussing plausible deniability for public postings:
> But for your suggested applicatoin -- plausible deniability for
> `speaking truth to kings' -- it works fine, because that's the point,
> plausible deniability against well resourced attackers (you are in
> trouble if well resourced attackers are interested in you anyway), but
> some value to the signature for low resourced attackers.
> 
> Other ways to provide plausible deniability is to not sign public
> posts, and to use non-transferable signatures for private email.

I missed from this list of approaches for plausible deniability the
canonical cypherpunks approach: post anonymously :-)

The other way is perhaps to have shared identities, such as Monty
Cantsin claimed to be, and such as perhaps Toto has been on occasion.

Adam
-- 
print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<>
)]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 16:55:16 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com
Subject: More Mickyshit via WebTV
Message-ID: <199810150837.DAA116.67@geiger.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----


Forward from the SpyKing Mailing List.

**************************************************************** Subject:
Web TV owns your cache

http://www.usatoday.com/life/cyber/zd/zd7.htm
10/12/98- 
WebTV is watching you
From: Inter@ctive Week Online

Microsoft Corp.'s WebTV Networks Inc. is quietly using a system-polling
feature that can extrapolate subscriber information from each of its
450,000 users to better serve advertisers, said Steve Perlman, president
of WebTV. 

The polling, which takes place nightly, uploads television and Web site
viewing habits back to the system. The data makes it possible for WebTV to
scrutinize not only what subscribers are watching, but also what they are
clicking on or surfing away from, Perlman said. The polling results are
offered to advertisers in an aggregate format;  however, because results
are grouped by ZIP code and contain demographic data compiled from WebTV
viewers' polls, it can help them target ads more effectively. 

"We have a whole department that does nothing but look at the information.
If someone is watching a car ad and clicks through, we can send them to
the closest car dealership Web site," Perlman said.  "The balance is
providing advertisers with useful information while still protecting the
subscribers." WebTV already protects its subscribers from Internet cookies
- -- markers that track what sites people visit on the Web. 

"I don't think people understand the extent of this. It's recording
everything they do. This is like having a video camera on them 24 hours a
day," said Tom Rheinlander, an analyst at Forrester Research Inc. 

The polling will take a giant step into the realm of cable TV in 1999.
Tele-Communications Inc. and other cable operators are expected to deploy
more than 5 million set-top boxes that will ship with Windows CE and the
Solo chip, bringing WebTV to cable. 

Today, WebTV informs its subscribers about the polling. Next year, Perlman
said, customers will have the option of turning individual tracking on and
off at will. This will allow advertisers to send ads to single households,
not just ZIP codes. 

Sean Kaldor, vice president of International Data Corp.'s Consumer Device
Research, said this could translate into greater ad revenue for Microsoft.
 "But it could also work out well for subscribers.  They may get lower or
free subscriptions for enabling this level of tracking," Kaldor said. "Is
it going to happen? I doubt it, but it's a nice thought." 

By Karen J. Bannan

****************************************************************


- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: The best way to accelerate Windows is at escape velocity.

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Version: 2.6.3a-sha1
Charset: cp850
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fbRhHuixtUI=
=dZbh
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: sendus@earthcorp.com
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 09:10:15 +0800
To: 
Subject: LUGGAGE, GARMENT BAGS, BREIFCASES, ETC.
Message-ID: <199810150039.RAA24551@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Dear reader,

We have just visited your website and became interested to develop a trading relationship with you company.

We are a major manufacturer of a full range of luggage, bags, and trolleys.For full details 
mailto:sendus@earthcorp.com?Subject=BESTPLUS_IDUSTRIES_LTD.

Thank you very much,

Ms. Anges Lek,
Managing Director


 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Brown, R Ken" 
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 18:51:02 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: RE: DNA (fwd)
Message-ID: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F84DD@MSX11002>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Mathew James Gering wrote:

>Monozygotic [maternal] twins do have the same DNA. Hence they
>are identical. Genetically identical that is, there are non-genetic
>variations. Dizygotic [fraternal] twins do not. Fraternal twins can 
>be visually nearly identical, but they are not genetically identical.

That's right. "Monozygotic". I'd forgotten the word.

>Clones on the otherhand and have identical nuclear DNA, but
>are notnecessarily identical because some early development
>processes rely on maternal genome material and not nuclear
>DNA, and depending on the cloning process they may have
>different mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA).

Yep - if you mean Dolly-style clones derived from nuclear transplants
into eggs. there was an interesting article in this week's "New
Scientist" magazine
(http://www.newscientist.com/ns/981010/contents.html) about the changing
popular meaning of the word "clone". It was originally used for a group
of plants produced vegetatively, like by cuttings or runners. Then it
was extended to other organisms that can reproduce by division, like
so-called protozoa  Then to DNA replicated from one ancestor. And now to
artificially cloned things like Dolly. 

If you got a Dolly-style clone made from you he or she wouldn't be your
child, but your sibling and wouldn't be identical to you for all the
reasons Matt pointed out. And of course because of different
education/experience/upbringing et.c  nto to mention the knowledge that
they had been got in such a different way, which must do *something* to
the psyche.  (Anyone read "Cyteen" by CJ Cherryh?)

Identical twins of course are a clone in the original sense, just as
much as a variety of apples or a colony of bacteria are a clone.  Really
genetically identical, right down to the maternal contribution, because
they drive from division at an early embryo stage (Sea-urchins can do it
as well but insects can't...)  If it were possible to re-potentiate
adult cells and transform them into embryos (it works in plants - but
then it has to because they can't move cells from one organ to another
so any shoot tip has to be able to produce any kind of plant tissue)
then we could make "real" twin-like clones of humans.  If the search for
the mysterious foetal stem cells pays off that might be possible (though
why anyone would want to clone a human foetus is beyond me. Assume all
the crude jokes about it being more fun to make another one using the
traditional method).


Ken Brown




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William J. Hartwell" 
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 00:21:54 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com
Subject: Who is next? (re Jim's subpoena)
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981015084148.00943940@mail.xroads.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



This ran through my mind this morning before I was totally awake. Maybe
somebody can help me with the original author of this....


When they came for Kevin Mitnick I said nothing. After all he was a big
time hacker and I wasn't a hacker so I did not speak up.

When they came for Jim Bell I said nothing. He was a criminal and I am not
a criminal so I didn't speak up.

When they came for Toto I said nothing. Surely he was nuts and I am
completely sane so I didn't speak up.

When they came for Jim Choate I said nothing. He runs a cypherpunks mailing
list and I don't manage any lists so I didn't speak up.

When they come for me who will be left to speak up?


This is a poor paraphrase of the original but I wonder if it is something
that we may be saying here in the U.S. soon?

--
					William J. Hartwell
					   (602)987-8436
					  Queencreek, Az.

billh@ibag.com			billh@interdem.com		billh@hartwell.net




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Steve Bryan 
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 22:43:46 +0800
To: cypherpunks 
Subject: Re: pgp 6 src out
In-Reply-To: <19981015104621.A7198@tightrope.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>hmmm pgp 6 source books have been released .. I wonder if there will
>be a pgp 6i unix version now?
>
>--
>1024/D9C69DF9 steve mynott steve@tightrope.demon.co.uk http://www.pineal.com/
>
>    i was gratified to be able to answer promptly, and i did.  i said i
>didn't know.  -- mark twain

For those who want more details I browsed with DejaNews to find the
original announcement:

>PGP 6.0 Source Books Available

>Author:
>
>               Ed Stone
>Email:
>               nospam@synernet.com
>Date:
>               1998/10/14
>Forums:
>               alt.privacy, alt.security.pgp, comp.security.pgp.discuss
>
>
>
>PGP again releases source code, fathering both free and international
>versions, to the consternation of some bureaucrats and possibly someone
>else.
>
>Printers, Inc. provides the following information:
>
>"Platform Independent $160.00
>Macintosh $160.00
>Windows $180.00
>
>These are all multi-volume ring-bound books of source code.  For each of
>the above, there is a single-volume book of documentation at $25.00 each.
>
>In order to work, the Macintosh and Windows sets both require the
>Platform Independent set.
>
>Shipping is by FedEx (or UPS if you prefer).  It's expensive, but it
>allows us to track the package.
>
>Attached is a sort of form letter on methods of payment.
>
>Yours,
>
>Gary Corduan
>Printers Inc. Bookstore
>
>  -------------------------------
>
>As to payment, you could send us a check for the amount payable to
>`Printers Inc. Bookstore' and addressed to
>
>   310 California Avenue
>   Palo Alto, California 94306
>
>You should probably make the envelope attention to me (Gary Corduan) lest
>it get lost in the shuffle (which _does_ happen, hence the other options
>below which are probably preferable).
>
>If you have a credit card, you can fax the number to us at (650)327-7509.
>The fax machine is in our accounting office, and we can keep your card
>number on file for the next time you order.
>
>Alternatively, you can phone in your card number on our toll-free line at
>1(800)742-0402 and ask for me.  I am usually here on Mondays, Tuesdays,
>Wednesdays, Fridays, and Saturdays.
>
>Whatever option you choose, please e-mail me and let me know (in case the
>check gets lost, the fax machine jams, etc. etc.)."
>
>Email them at pibooks@best.com
>
>--
>--
>-------------------------------
>Ed Stone
>estone@synernet-robin.com
>remove "-birdname" spam avoider
>-------------------------------

Steve Bryan
Vendorsystems International
email: sbryan@vendorsystems.com
icq: 5263678
pgp fingerprint: D758 183C 8B79 B28E 6D4C  2653 E476 82E6 DA7C 9AC5





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: orowley@imaginemedia.com (Owen Rowley)
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 01:47:07 +0800
To: "William J. Hartwell" 
Subject: Re: Who is next? (re Jim's subpoena)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981015084148.00943940@mail.xroads.com>
Message-ID: <36262FD7.C8BEA9AD@imaginemedia.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




William J. Hartwell wrote:

> This is a poor paraphrase of the original but I wonder if it is something
> that we may be saying here in the U.S. soon?

perhaps the answer is to *NOT BE* in the U.S. when it's being said.

LUX ./. owen




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Steve Mynott 
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 18:11:14 +0800
To: cypherpunks 
Subject: pgp 6 src out
Message-ID: <19981015104621.A7198@tightrope.demon.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



hmmm pgp 6 source books have been released .. I wonder if there will
be a pgp 6i unix version now?

-- 
1024/D9C69DF9 steve mynott steve@tightrope.demon.co.uk http://www.pineal.com/

    i was gratified to be able to answer promptly, and i did.  i said i
didn't know.  -- mark twain




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mok-Kong Shen 
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 18:10:56 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Use encryption to foil spooks' data harvesting, says US state dept
In-Reply-To: <199810141617.SAA07987@replay.com>
Message-ID: <3625CC35.6635727C@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Anonymous wrote:
> 
> http://ds.state.gov/documents/protect.doc

> ·Many telecommunications transmissions will contain "key words", used to
> identify information of interest to a third party.  A key word can be the
> name of a technology, product, project, or anything else which may identify
> the subject of the transmission.

The communications of criminals are certainly not billions bytes
long but rather short and if they use 'key words' these can hardly 
be detected. This shows the nonsense of prohibiting use (or restricting
export) of strong crypto by the general public and also the total
ineffectivity of wiretapping etc. by the authority.

A tiny history: During WWII there was a time when much commodities
were smuggled between Hongkong and Macao. Letters were subject
to opening by the Japanese occupation. Using 'key words' the 
smugglers of one city put little harmless looking announces in 
local newspapers which the complices at the other city could read 
the next day just as fast as if the information were sent via the post.

This clearly shows that those attempting to push through crypto
laws or regulations have either very low IQ or have high IQ but are
in fact pursuing other (undisclosed) goals than what they publically 
claim (fighting criminality etc.).

M. K. Shen




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Ernest Hua" 
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 02:52:12 +0800
To: 
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Commerce_Undersecretary_William_Reinsch_defends_the_go?==?iso-8859-1?Q?vernment=92s_encryption_policy?=
Message-ID: <014701bdf868$62b41c20$4164a8c0@mve21>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> We want to work through the market. What that means is, if the market
> turns in unexpected directions, we have to be ready to re-evaluate our
> policy. So I don't think you're going to see a "final" version
> ever. As long as the market moves and changes, our policy will be
> tweaked to accommodate what's happening.

In other words ... If we don't approve, it's time to go back to ITAR
and 40-bits.

> I don't think they're doing it just because the government asked them
> to; they're doing it because they see a market.  In addition, in the
> spring the FBI and the Justice Department asked companies to come in
> to see if a technical solution could be found to deal with these
> issues. Companies have done that, too.

It must be nice to be able to pressure and threaten companies behind
the scenes and then come out to the public to say that they are
"cooperating" or "volunteering".

> At the same time, of all the economic sectors in the country, this
> one's moving the fastest. There's a real danger that, if we can't get
> our policy together and out there in the marketplace soon, we could be
> overtaken by events overseas.

In other words, "all this time we've been denying that there was
overseas competition, well, we were lying through our teeth."

"And that thing with the EU complaining about Echelon and the Germans
trying to head up the Europeans to bust ITAR/EAR ..."  Oops!  Can't
say the "E" word in public because "nobody" knows about that!

> I think you have to contrast that situation, which was reasonably
> artificial, with the reality of law enforcement. In this case, it took
> a decent amount of resources to crack a specific message that, I
> believe, the people doing the crack knew was in English, and knew was
> one message.

Must be nice not having real technologists pointing out blatant
flaws/lies in your public statments.

> Now, if you're the FBI, think about that. From their standpoint, we're
> talking about traffic that isn't so easily identifiable. It might be a
> long stream of encrypted material that they're trying to intercept in
> real time; they don't necessarily know what language it's in; they
> don't necessarily know what

Sure ... if the FBI were really stupid ... and the FBI didn't really
want to do any homework, but instead, would rather have NSA's
dictionaries do the walking ...  encryption would be a real bitch,
wouldn't it?  Even 40-bit.

Ern





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Duncan Frissell 
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 00:00:16 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Hollywood on How to Talk to FBI Agents
In-Reply-To: <199810132308.SAA08748@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <199810151526.LAA21810@mail1.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Was watching "One Tough Cop" last weekend starring the younger and less
successful brothers of a couple of male leads.  

An NYC police drama filmed in Toronto.  

The otherwise "B" movie was enlivened by a somewhat less than sympathetic
treatment of the two FBI agents who were leaning on "One Tough Cop."  They
wanted him to plant a bug on his childhood friend who was a member of a
Sicilian social organization.  

The movie also featured two crack heads who raped and murdered a nun.  The
FBI agents got worse screen treatment than the crack heads.  

Our hero's chats with the Fibbies were always laced with strings of
obscenities meant to convey to them that he did not intend to help them.
The film showed that he did not suffer professional reversals because of
his treatment of Fibbies.  

DCF    




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 01:31:01 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Evans on tradition, common law & Hayek
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Date:         Thu, 15 Oct 1998 11:43:25 EDT
Reply-To: Hayek Related Research 
Sender: Hayek Related Research 
From: Stephen Carson 
Subject:      Evans on tradition, common law & Hayek
To: HAYEK-L@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU

     M. Stanton Evans has an excellent discussion of tradition & common
law as it relates to liberty & consent in his _The Theme is Freedom:
Religion, Politics, and the American Tradition_, (1994, Regnery).
Chapter 5 of that book, "The Uses of Tradition", is particularly helpful.
 From that chapter...  [emphases his]

"The reason for this libertarian effect is that the common law created a
tremendous obstacle to the *workings of unchecked power in the state*.
For if the law grew up by way of custom and tradition, over great
intervals of time, then it was not the work of any individual and could
not be changed at anyone's discretion.  It was outside the ordinary
workings of the process, pre-existed the powers of the day, and would
survive them.  This made it superior to the will of any king, or group of
legislators, and gave it independent status."
-p. 80


"...the common law cannot be made over by the decree of any given
individual, group, or even generation.  It consists instead of the
accretion, over time, of ways of thinking and acting that many
generations have accepted.  When you think about it - and the common
lawyers did - this is a *species of consent*.  It means that people are
*voluntarily choosing to do things in a certain way, without any central
direction or design*.  Another common lawyer of the Stuart era, John
Davies, put it as follows:
     'The common law of England is nothing else but the common law and
custom of the realm... A custom taketh beginning and groweth to
perfection in this manner; when a reasonable act once done is found to be
good and beneficial to the people, and agreeable to their nature and
disposition, then they do use and practice it again and again, and so by
often iteration and multiplication of the act it becometh a custom...
customary law is the most perfect and most excellent, and without
comparison the best, to make and preserve a commonwealth.  For the
written laws that are made by either the edict of princes, or by council
of estates [i.e., Parliament] are imposed on the subject before any trial
or probation made, whether the same be fit and agreeable to the nature
and disposition of the people, or whether they will breed any
inconvenience or no.  But a custom doth never become a law to bind the
people, until it had been tried time out of mind...'"
-p. 88


"This notion of *custom as consent*, in contrast to top-down command, is
among the key ideas of the free society.  With the statements of Davies
and Wilson, in fact, we approach the modern exposition of this point by
Hayek, who devotes a series of penetrating essays to the subject.  The
distinctive features of a libertarian regime, Hayek argues, is that it
permits the organization of society by free decision, and that this
results in an ordered system that no single person or even group of
people has designed, and that could not have been created by top-down
methods.  An obvious example is the development of language - a structure
that has grown up over a considerable course of time, invented by nobody
in particular, but used conveniently by many."
-p. 89-90


     I had never quite connected this aspect of consent in with the
common law.  This makes the connection between spontaneous order, custom,
time & consent much clearer to me.

Stephen W. Carson   

"Premature optimization is the root of all evil" -Donald Knuth

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 01:19:43 +0800
To: 
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Commerce_Undersecretary_William_Reinsch_defends_the_govern?==?iso-8859-1?Q?ment=92s_encryption_policy?=
Message-ID: <001a01bdf858$8c15eea0$1901a8c0@austin.zks.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I especially like the part about DEEPCRACK and how because EFF knew that the
message was in English that it doesn't really prove that the FBI can break
56bit DES encryption.



---------------------------------------------------
http://www.infosecuritymag.com/sept/q%26a.htm
Q & A WITH WILLIAM REINSCH

                             Crypto's Key Man
   Commerce Undersecretary William Reinsch defends the government's
encryption export
                     policy-even though it puts him "in the hot seat."

                                   BY ANDY BRINEY

Q: How would you characterize current U.S. cryptographic export policies?

A: The President has consistently articulated a policy of balance-between
privacy, electronic commerce, law
enforcement and national security. We believe all four elements are
important, and we're trying to produce a policy
that takes all of them into account.

But is it really possible to balance all these issues at the same time?

We think so. I'm not sure the industry agrees with us, and it's not easy.
The privacy issues involved have been
discussed for 50 years in debates about wiretaps and law enforcement devices
for intercepting phone conversations.
Encryption poses some of the same issues: privacy vs. law enforcement. The
country has come to terms with
wiretaps over the years, and people still use phones-even though, with
proper court orders, there's the possibility
that law enforcement could be listening in. We think we'll be able to arrive
at the same common public
understanding with encryption. But there's no question that getting there
will be difficult.

What kind of time frame are we looking at? Is the administration looking at
releasing a "final" crypto export policy
within the next three months? Six months? A year?

The policy I articulated-one of balance-is based on implementations in the
marketplace. We expect the market to
develop the products we like, and we expect that there will be a demand for
the products.

We want to work through the market. What that means is, if the market turns
in unexpected directions, we have to
be ready to re-evaluate our policy. So I don't think you're going to see a
"final" version-ever. As long as the
market moves and changes, our policy will be tweaked to accommodate what's
happening.

In the short run, however, the policy we are currently operating under
expires January 1. We've told industry we
expect to revisit that policy this fall, and make judgments about what's
going to happen after January 1. So we've
committed to trying to come out with the next update, hopefully by Labor
Day, although my expectation is it may
take a little longer than that.

Can you be more explicit about what this policy might entail?

No. Because we're not there yet.

What has been the industry's reaction to current policy?

Industry has been quite active, particularly with submitting key-recovery
plans. We provide more liberalized export
controls for companies that provide plans by which they will build
key-recovery products. We've approved some 55
plans now-with a few more pending.

I don't think they're doing it just because the government asked them to;
they're doing it because they see a market.
In addition, in the spring the FBI and the Justice Department asked
companies to come in to see if a technical
solution could be found to deal with these issues. Companies have done that,
too.

At the same time, of all the economic sectors in the country, this one's
moving the fastest. There's a real danger
that, if we can't get our policy together and out there in the marketplace
soon, we could be overtaken by events
overseas.

Recently, a panel was charged with developing a Federal Information
Processing Standard (FIPS). One of this
group's directives was to design a federal computer security system that
includes back doors-which they failed to
do. What's next for this panel, and for this issue?

My understanding is that, at the request of a majority of the panel's
members, the Secretary [of Commerce] has
extended their charter to the end of the year. The Secretary received a
letter from the panel in which the majority
felt they would be able to complete their work with additional time.
However, they also said they weren't entirely
confident that at the end of the day it would be unanimous product.

Even if it were possible to do key escrow on the scale the government is
asking, would anyone willingly buy such a
product knowing that stronger encryption products without back doors are
available? To prevent this, wouldn't it be
necessary to criminalize the domestic possession of stronger crypto?

First of all, we haven't supported the latter. Second, I think you need to
look at this problem in pieces, not as a
unitary problem. The pieces are: stored data, data in transit (such as
e-mail) and voice communications. I would
argue that with the first two

of those pieces, there's going to be substantial demand in the market for
the kinds of products that are helpful from
our standpoint.

For stored data, we see a demand for key recovery-we're not using the term
"key escrow" much anymore.
Particularly in business and financial institutions, there's a demand for
recovery products, because people want to be
able to access employees' data in the event of accidents or other such
things.

As for e-mail, the most significant development there was the announcement
nine companies made in early July.
Each of these companies submitted an application for a so-called "door bell"
technology, which connotes a variety of
means of recovery at the server level.

What we see developing here is growing use of network encryption-as opposed
to encryption at the PC-for
secure transmission of messages. Employers will want that, for employee
control purposes. From the standpoint of
law enforcement, that's a happy development, because it creates two "third
point" locations-the sender's server
and the recipient's server-that are physically separate from the sender and
recipient of the message. These points
are often controlled by third parties, namely contractors running the
system. So, with the proper court order, law
enforcement could go to those third points and obtain plain-text access.

What was your reaction to the Electronic Frontier Foundation's cracking of
DES in July?

I think you have to contrast that situation, which was reasonably
artificial, with the reality of law enforcement. In
this case, it took a decent amount of resources to crack a specific message
that, I believe, the people doing the
crack knew was in English, and knew was one message.

Now, if you're the FBI, think about that. From their standpoint, we're
talking about traffic that isn't so easily
identifiable. It might be a long stream of encrypted material that they're
trying to intercept in real time; they don't
necessarily know what language it's in; they don't necessarily know what
part of the message is of interest to them;
and they don't know whether it's words or text or graphics or what it might
be. Telling the FBI that, under those
circumstances, you can buy an expensive computer and crack one message in 56
hours-that's not a lot of comfort
to the FBI. And it doesn't seem to me that it should make anybody in the
private sector nervous about the security
of 56-bit products. If that's the best we're going to get-56 hours for a
single message decrypted by equipment
most people don't have and aren't ever going to have-that doesn't exactly
mean that it's an unsecured product.

But it does illustrate a trend. As time passes, it's taking fewer and fewer
resources and less and less time to crack
the same algorithm. In 1997, it took three months. In February, it took 39
days. Now, it's one $250,000 computer and
56 hours. Who's to say in two more months it won't be cracked in an even
shorter amount of time with even fewer
resources?

You can project that curve, and maybe you'll be right. The immediate effect
of that is that it's going to accelerate a
trend that's already begun anyway, which is toward 128-bit products. I think
that's a trend that would have occurred
regardless of this particular event.

The technical people I've talked to say that once you get beyond 90 or 100
bits, it doesn't make all that much
difference because you're talking about brute-force cracking times that are
beyond any real time that you can
imagine. Obviously, the faster you can crack 56 bits, the faster you can
crack 90 or 100. But since each successive
bit doubles your time, by the time you get to 90, I think you're into
thousands of years...

But the question is, assuming that 90 is safe, wouldn't it then be prudent
to have a policy that allows uniform export
of 90-bit products without special dispensation?

I don't think we expect to set bit-length requirements. We believe in the
marketplace deciding what is secure and
what is not. The government is not going to say that 90 is good or 128 is
good...

But right now it's saying 56 is sufficient.

No, the government is saying that 56 can be exported under certain
circumstances. What the government has also
said is that if it's a key-recovery product, it can be exported with any bit
length without constraint. And that's what
we would prefer to focus on-to tell people, if you're product has recovery
features, bit length doesn't matter.
That's the incentive.

What happens if a key-recovery standard cannot be agreed upon? Is there a
fallback plan?

We are doing everything we can to encourage people to find it acceptable and
to get the market to move in that
direction. We think that's what's happening. So I don't think we've
developed a Plan B in that sense.

Can you discuss progress on the Advanced Encryption Standard (AES)?

No. I'm not particularly involved in that. I think you need to talk to some
NIST or NSA people about that.



ALSO

Q: You seem to be the government's point man on encryption policy issues. Is
that a function of your office, your
background, or what?

A: "Designated victim" is the term we use [laughs]. Actually, it's a
function of the office. An integral component of
our policy involves export controls, and the BXA [Bureau of Export
Administration] administers export controls of
dual-use items for the government. So I end up in the hot seat.

EDITOR'S NOTE: Next month, Bruce Schneier, author of the definitive text
Applied Cryptography, will respond to
Undersecretary Reinsch's comments in a special Word in Edgewise article.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Fisher Mark 
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 02:08:42 +0800
To: "'cypherpunks'" 
Subject: FW: IAB statement on "private doorbell" encryption
Message-ID: <2C396693FBDED111AEF60000F84104A721C01E@indyexch_fddi.indy.tce.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> From: 	The IAB[SMTP:iab@ietf.org]
> Sent: 	Thursday, October 15, 1998 9:35 AM
> Subject: 	IAB statement on "private doorbell" encryption
> 
> 
> 
> The IAB and IESG are concerned by published descriptions of the
> "private doorbell" approach to resolving the encryption controversy.
> Essentially, the private doorbell requires that encryption and
> decryption be done at a gateway, rather than at an end system; see
> http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/779/govtaff/policy/paper/paper_index.html
> for one description.  This is in conflict with the "end-to-end"
> principle, a fundamental tenet of the Internet architecture.  While
> there is certainly a place for gateway-based encryption in some
> circumstances, to require it in all places (and to exclude end-to-end
> encryption) would warp the protocol structure.  Furthermore, it
> offers a significantly lower level of security, in that there is
> no longer protection against inside attacks, which by all accounts
> are a serious threat.
> 
> In addition, putting all security at the gateway ignores the need
> for different levels of protection in different situations.  For
> some applications, encryption to the gateway may suffice.  Others
> may require encryption and cryptographic authentication of the
> individual machine or even user.  Should a strong encryption
> algorithm be used, or a very efficient one?  It is very difficult
> to make these decisions anywhere but the end-system.  But the
> "private doorbell" scheme would block deployment of such fine-grained
> protection.
> 
> 
==========================================================
Mark Leighton Fisher          Thomson Consumer Electronics
fisherm@indy.tce.com          Indianapolis, IN
"Their walls are built of cannon balls, their motto is
'Don't Tread on Me'"




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Fisher Mark 
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 02:10:44 +0800
To: "'cypherpunks'" 
Subject: FW: Protocol Action: OpenPGP Message Format to Proposed Standard
Message-ID: <2C396693FBDED111AEF60000F84104A721C01F@indyexch_fddi.indy.tce.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> From: 	The IESG[SMTP:iesg-secretary@ietf.org]
> Sent: 	Thursday, October 15, 1998 10:27 AM
> Cc: 	RFC Editor; Internet Architecture Board; ietf-open-pgp@imc.org
> Subject: 	Protocol Action: OpenPGP Message Format to Proposed Standard
> 
> 
> 
> The IESG has approved the Internet-Draft 'OpenPGP Message Format'
>  as a Proposed Standard.  This
> document is the product of the An Open Specification for Pretty Good
> Privacy Working Group.
> 
> The IESG contact persons are Jeffrey Schiller and Marcus Leech.
> 
> 
>  
> Technical Summary
>  
>   This document defines the formats used by "Phil's Pretty Good
>   Privacy" otherwise known as PGP.
> 
> Working Group Summary
> 
>   After serious discussion the working group came to consensus on this
>   document.
> 
> Protocol Quality
> 
>   The formats used here are the result of a second generation 
>   engineering effort to define an efficient, one pass format for
>   representing information encrypted or signed with PGP. They were
>   reviewed by Jeffrey I. Schiller for the IESG.
> 
> 
> Note to RFC Editor: Please add the following as an IESG Note:
> 
>    This document defines many tag values, yet it doesn't describe a
>    mechanism for adding new tags (for new features). Traditionally the
>    Internet Assigned Numbers Authority (IANA) handles the allocation of 
>    new values for future expansion and RFCs usually define the procedure 
>    to be used by the IANA.  However there are subtle (and not so subtle)
>    interactions that may occur in this protocol between new features and
>    existing features which result in a significant reduction in over all
>    security. Therefore this document does not define an extension
>    procedure. Instead requests to define new tag values (say for new 
>    encryption algorithms for example) should be forwarded to the IESG
>    Security Area Directors for consideration or forwarding to the
>    appropriate IETF Working Group for consideration.
> 
> 
==========================================================
Mark Leighton Fisher          Thomson Consumer Electronics
fisherm@indy.tce.com          Indianapolis, IN
"Their walls are built of cannon balls, their motto is
'Don't Tread on Me'"




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 02:20:15 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: DCSB: Risk Management is Where the Money Is; Trust in Digital Commerce
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Mime-Version: 1.0
X-Sender: rah@pop.sneaker.net
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 11:01:58 -0400
To: dcsb@ai.mit.edu, dcsb-announce@ai.mit.edu
From: Robert Hettinga 
Subject: DCSB: Risk Management is Where the Money Is; Trust in Digital
 Commerce
Cc: Dan Geer , Terry Symula ,
        "Heffan, Ira" , Roland Mueller 
Sender: bounce-dcsb@ai.mit.edu
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: Robert Hettinga 

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----


          The Digital Commerce Society of Boston

                       Presents

                       Dan Geer
                Senior Strategist and VP,
                       CertCo, Inc.

           Risk Management is Where the Money Is

                Tuesday, November 3rd, 1998
                       12 - 2 PM
             The Downtown Harvard Club of Boston
               One Federal Street, Boston, MA




     The focus of "security" research today is the study of "trust
management," i.e., the study of how trust is created, propagated,
circumscribed, stored, exchanged, accounted for, recalled and adjudicated
in an electronic world.  This is both natural and mature -- natural because
security is a means and not an end, mature because security technology must
differentiate along cost-benefit lines.  All the security technology that
you can buy today enables some aspect of trust management and the academic
and entrepreneurial segments alike are busy supplying many novel ways to
propagate trust.  They have it all wrong.  Trust management is definitely
exciting, but like most exciting ideas it is not important.  What is
important is risk management, the sister, the dual of trust management.
And it is risk management that is the part of financial services that will
drive the security world from here on out whether you realize it or not.


Dan Geer is VP and Senior Strategist for CertCo, Inc., market leader
in digital certification for electronic commerce.  Dan has been at
a number of security oriented startups in the Boston area since
leaving academia where he was Manager of Systems Development for
MIT's Project Athena.  He holds a S.B. in EE/CS from MIT, and a
Sc.D. in Biostatistics from Harvard.  He was deeply involved
in medical computing for fifteen years.  A frequent speaker,
popular teacher and member of several professional societies,
he has been active in USENIX for some years at the Board level.
His recent publications include "The Web Security Sourcebook"
(Wiley, 1997) and the security chapter in Leebaert's "The
Future of the Electronic Marketplace" (MIT, 1998).


This meeting of the Digital Commerce Society of Boston will be held on
Tuesday, November 3, 1998, from 12pm - 2pm at the Downtown Branch of
the Harvard Club of Boston, on One Federal Street. The price for lunch
is $32.50. This price includes lunch, room rental, various A/V hardware,
and the speaker's lunch. ;-).  The Harvard Club *does* have dress code:
jackets and ties for men (and no sneakers or jeans), and "appropriate
business attire" (whatever that means), for women.  Fair warning: since
we purchase these luncheons in advance, we will be unable to refund the
price of your lunch if the Club finds you in violation of the dress
code.


We need to receive a company check, or money order, (or, if we
*really* know you, a personal check) payable to "The Harvard Club of
Boston", by Saturday, October 31st, or you won't be on the list for
lunch.  Checks payable to anyone else but The Harvard Club of Boston
will have to be sent back.

Checks should be sent to Robert Hettinga, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston,
Massachusetts, 02131. Again, they *must* be made payable to "The
Harvard Club of Boston", in the amount of $32.50. Please include your
e-mail address, so that we can send you a confirmation

If anyone has questions, or has a problem with these arrangements
(We've had to work with glacial A/P departments more than once, for
instance), please let us know via e-mail, and we'll see if we can work
something out.


Upcoming speakers for DCSB are:

December   Joseph DeFeo   TBA
January    Ira Heffan     Internet Software and Business Process Patents
February   Roland Mueller European Privacy Directive

We are actively searching for future speakers.  If you are in Boston
on the first Tuesday of the month, and you would like to make a
presentation to the Society, please send e-mail to the DCSB Program
Commmittee, care of Robert Hettinga, .


For more information about the Digital Commerce Society of Boston,
send "info dcsb" in the body of a message to  . If you want to subscribe to the DCSB e-mail
list, send "subscribe dcsb" in the body of a message to  .

We look forward to seeing you there!

Cheers,
Robert Hettinga
Moderator,
The Digital Commerce Society of Boston


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.5.5

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8xtkgPn86Rmz4HXKnLRRm+lTWOKAo6+IDR4N1vR38pCiHx4ySIQ+PQ==
=/Xht
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

For help on using this list (especially unsubscribing), send a message to
"dcsb-request@ai.mit.edu" with one line of text: "help".

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 02:53:41 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: FBI Affidavit on Ex-NSA Cryptanalyst
Message-ID: <199810151821.OAA23576@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



We offer the FBI's 23-page affidavit of charges against David
Sheldon Boone, ex-NSA cryptanalyst who allegedly
passed top secret SIGINT, EW and nuclear targeting plans 
to the Soviets:

   http://jya.com/dsb100998.htm

Tantalizing hints on means and methods, quoting the affidavit of the 
FBI agent in charge:

  On one occasion, "Igor" [Soviet agent] told BOONE that the 
  KGB/SVRR had access to United States Signals Directive 
  (USSID) Zero, which was an index of all other USSIDs, and 
  from this index IGOR asked BOONE to obtain specific USSIDs. 
  I have ascertained that USSIDs are classified NSA publications 
  for use in providing Signals Intelligence (SIGINT) support to 
  the United States military.

  BOONE told the OA [FBI Operational Asset posing as Soviet 
  agent to set up Boone] that he had given "Igor" a photocopy 
  of an NSA document entitled "United States Signals Intelligence 
  Directive (USSID) 514," dated May 6, 1988.  BOONE told the 
  OA that this USSID was unusual because it was one of few 
  USSIDs to be classified TOP SECRET rather than SECRET. 
  BOONE told the OA that USSID 514 was not widely 
  disseminated but that one copy had been at USAFS 
  Augsburg. 

And more on Boone's training and duties in cryptanalysis at
Fort Meade and in Germany.

Bad Ausburg is the location of one of the NSA intercept stations 
for the Echelon program is it not?




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Ernest Hua" 
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 06:40:04 +0800
To: 
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Commerce_Undersecretary_William_Reinsch_defends_the_go?==?iso-8859-1?Q?vernment=92s_encryption_policy_?=
Message-ID: <01bb01bdf886$f2f524a0$4164a8c0@mve21>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Michael,

Absolutely!  But I still really am hoping in desperation that some
people in the main stream press would get a clue that this is all
double speak, and that they are simply playing a game to buy time
for their old system, and buy political wins for the next system.

Heck, if I was in FBI/NSA's shoes, and this was the slimy game I
see everyday in D.C., it would be the same game I play to get what
I need.  And I would be very irresponsible if I did not play the
game, however slimy it is.

The problem is that it seems like most of the public take speeches
like the speakers are pretty much honest, when in fact, most of
the time, they are playing spin control.

I have no doubt the FBI/NSA are in trouble.  Echelon (or whatever
they call it) is in trouble.  They are irresponsible if they did
not fight to the end to preserve some of their multi-billion $$$
investment, but they are in dire straits if they are hoping for a
second generation centralized scanning intelligence machinery like
Echelon.  My belief is that they have to gather automated
intelligence from far more disparate and heterogenous (and
possibly conflicting) sources in the near future, and find ways to
make sense out of all of the data.

But I think the intelligent observer would see that they have no
choice because this technology .. I hate that word because people
call some of the most simple and dumb stuff "technology" in order
to make money from it .. this technology is impossible to control,
which means that precisely the most important target worth going
after will have plenty of resources to foil Echelon, but the
people made most vulnerable (because of the regulations) are the
common folks.

THAT is what is pissing me off.  If they have some effective way
to regulate underground trade of encryption, then they would have
a story to tell.  However, the fact that most encryption get out
of this country so darn fast (we're counting minutes now ...)
means they are not even trying.  Prosecuting that guy in San Jose
is just nuts.  Since when does prosecuting a legitimate business
man will actually stop people, who firmly believing that they
have some natural right to distribute encryption?

And I must emphasize that my opinion has NOTHING to do with
whether encryption SHOULD, from a social/political/legal view, be
exportable or not.

Ern





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Max Inux 
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 07:28:53 +0800
To: Steve Mynott 
Subject: Re: pgp 6 src out
In-Reply-To: <19981015104621.A7198@tightrope.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Thu, 15 Oct 1998, Steve Mynott wrote:
>hmmm pgp 6 source books have been released .. I wonder if there will
>be a pgp 6i unix version now?
>
>-- 
>1024/D9C69DF9 steve mynott steve@tightrope.demon.co.uk http://www.pineal.com/
>
>    i was gratified to be able to answer promptly, and i did.  i said i
>didn't know.  -- mark twain
>
The source is out, in book form atleast, available from Printers Inc.
waiting for it to be scanned.. It says on a web page i saw somewhere that
they will make a 6.0 for unix.  I think it was on NAI's page...

Max

--   Max Inux   Hey Christy!!! KeyID 0x8907E9E5
Kinky Sex makes the world go round O R Strong crypto makes the world safe
       If crypto is outlawed only outlaws will have crypto
Fingerprint(Photo Also): 259D 59F7 D98C CD73 1ACD 54Ea 6C43 4877 8907 E9E5






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 22:43:25 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199810151408.QAA03975@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>From Springfield porkmarked 9 October 1998:

Subject: Virtual Heist -- FPP #6

"I put Six Million into Hog Futures first thing this
morning." Yesterday's Power Suit told his lunch 
companion, hoping to impress her.

"Silicon Valley." Today's Power Skirt replied, almost
leaning over to whisper, as if speaking loud
enough for the Differently Dressed Deviate at the next
table to hear would make E.F. Hutton roll over
in His or Her grave.

"That's where the Smart Money's going again."
she continued, glancing nervously at the Differently
Dressed Deviate whose Well-Tailored Suit seemed so
out of place and ... well, Threatening ... in this
Chicago Mercantile Exchange Lunch Room.

Today's Power Skirt crossed her legs and casually
admired her new Rolex as she told Yesterday's Power
Suit, with a hint of disdain in her voice, "I just
put *Twenty-Six Million Dollars* into ..."

"Everybody Freeze!" screamed the Differently
Dressed Deviate as i jumped to His or Her feet,
pulling a Digital Uzi out of His or Her Well-Tailored
Suit, which was a Cammo Montage of Colors
Weaves & Cuts of the Power Suits of a wide span
of Time & Generations.

"Army of Dog!" Cammo Monty continued,
sending a Shiver of Terror down the spines of
the Lunch Crowd gathered today, as they were
everyday, discussing (over their bag lunches)
their movement of Other People's Millions into and
out of various Money Market Accounts, et al.

Cammo Monty pointed the Digital Uzi at the
breast pocket of Yesterday's Power suit.
"Let's see your Bank Book, Dick Face."


Horrified, Yesterday's Power Suit shakily withdrew
the Bank Book from his pocket, opened it and placed
it on the table in front of him.

"Just over three hundred bucks." the Army
of Dog Digital Terrorist told the Lunch Crowd,
causing much chuckling and snickering
throughout the room.

"Let's have it, Twat Face." Cammo Monty
spun around pointing the Digital Uzi directly
at the Bank Book of Today's Power Skirt, as she
was trying to slip it out of her Briefcase, 
unnoticed.

Reluctantly, she opened it and lay it on
the table.

"A hundred and twenty-eight dollars ..." Cammo
Monty announced to the tittering Lunch Crowd, "and
seventeen cents." i finished to a chorus of guffaws.

Cammo Monty leapt onto his chair, and placed
one foot on the table, waving His or Her Digital
Uzi around the room, seeing the Fear (TM)
in the Eyes of each Wanna Be Money Kontroller in
the room - thinking that they might be the next
to have their finances exposed.

"Today's Power Skirt," Cammo Monty told the
Lunch Crowd, "bought her Rolex on a Payment Plan,"
a shudder went through the room, "with a *ten
percent*," i spit out the words as she began
to moan, "down-payment."

Today's Power skirt collapsed in tears ...

"You Fucking Morons (TM)!" Cammo Monty
screamed at the group, causing them to
cringe in shame.

"You are handling Other People's Money. It's
not *your* money, you idiots, so Wake The
Fuck Up (TM) and stop pretending that it is ... 
to yourself and to each other." 
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 22:43:19 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199810151414.QAA04585@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>From Springfield poxmarked 9 October 1998:

Subject: Springfield CypherPunks Physical Meeting
         FPP 10-5-98

Date:    Every Saturday thru Thursday (except when it
         rains)

Time:    During 'REC' Hour.

Place:   Recreation Cages/The Hole (TM)
         Nuthouse Number Nine
         Looney Level 'Leven
         Springfield, Missouri

Directions: Walk to the Cell Door. Turn around, squat 
down and put your hands behind you, and through the Slot 
In The Door. Stand up after Handcuffs are in place, turn
around and wait for Guard to open Door. Step into
hallway and wait for Pat-Down. (Smiling, Wisecracks & 
Hard-Ons not advised.) Follow first Inmate & Guard.

There will be a short period for everyone to cop a few
butts (cigarettes only, please), if they don't have
any, light them and Shoot the Shit or Settle Old Scores 
before the Speakers begin to Rant & Rave or Blather
Aimlessly.

              This Weeks Topics/Speakers

Saturday:  Where Are Everybody's Shoes?
           ~ MAY, T.C.

Sunday:    Does Anybody Remember What We Talked About
           Yesterday?
           ~ FroomNOSPAMkin, M.

Monday:    I *TOLD* You They (TM) Were Out To Get Us!
           ~ replay.com, N@

Tuesday:   If They're So Certain This Prison is Secure,
           Then Why Won't They Provide Us With Blue
           Prints?
           ~ Geiger, Wm III

Wednesday: This Isn't What I Had In Mind When I Helped
           Set the Prison Standards
           ~ Hallam-Baker, P.

           I'm Sure Glad I Put In A Side Door
           ~ Sameer, P.

           I Broke Out! (But I Can't Provide You With
           Any Details)
           ~ Zimmermann, P.

           How many Beatings Does It Take To Change A
           Prison Cell Light Bulb?
           ~ Costner, R.

           I Bet Bill Gates *Stole* Everyone's Shoes!
           ~ Hun, A.T.

           I *Love* This Prison!
           ~ Hettinga, R.

Thursday:  Prisoner #7-9-12-13-15-18-5, J. is a COCK
           SUCKER!
           ~ Warden Vulis, D. (KOTM)

                 (DON'T FORGET YOUR SHOES!)




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: HyperReal-Anon 
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 02:15:57 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Commerce Undersecretary William Reinsch defends the government's encryption policy
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



nospam@freedom.net wrote:
> 
> http://www.infosecuritymag.com/sept/q%26a.htm
> Q & A WITH WILLIAM REINSCH
>
> Reinsch: What the government has also said is that if it's a 
> key-recovery product, it can be exported with any bit length 
> without constraint. And that's what we would prefer to focus 
> on -- to tell people, if you're product has recovery features, 
> bit length doesn't matter.

Ah, something we can finally agree upon:
"if your product has recovery features, bit length doesn't matter" 
(it's insecure).





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 07:55:40 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: mail2fax remailer capability? (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810152339.SAA18878@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 20:14:40 +0100
> From: Adam Back 
> Subject: mail2fax remailer capability?

> Has anyone come across any mail2fax site which tries to keep track of
> other free fax services and forward faxes to one in the right area?

It wouldn't surprise me any to find that Kinko's and other such chain print
shops couldn't do that sort of thing. Now if they'd do it over the web....

> ('Course if we could get some damn working ecash, we could fax it
> anywhere -- sender pays:-)

Open a laundromat, at least one person here in Austin has begun providing
smart-card/no cash services.

> Next stage -- anonymous voice mail delivered via voice modem /
> soundcard, all via mixmaster, that would be nice!

An anonymous remailer which drove a multi-format/media database would be
pretty nifty. Might find more than a few niche markets to dabble in as well.
In a sense you'd have your own little one machine data-haven.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 04:01:02 +0800
To: remailer-operators@anon.lcs.mit.edu
Subject: mail2fax remailer capability?
Message-ID: <199810151914.UAA08343@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




I am noticing the odd free email2fax "your fax was sent successfully"
report in the dud messages sent to (the non-replyable)
nobody@remailer.ch.

Warming to the heart that -- anonymous fax.

Now I am wondering what the coverage is like on fax gateways -- it
clearly only is going to work in places where there are free local
calls, for numbers counting as local to the gateway.

Just thinking it would be kind of nice if one could send a message

To: +1.234.567.891-mail2fax@anon.lcs.mit.edu

via mixmaster and have it sort out the delivery if possible to
mail2fax gateways operating with local calls in that area code.
(Analogously perhaps to the auto USENET posting from those remailers
with this option turned on -- that is either direct (remailer posts)
or indirect (forwarded to a mail2news gateway)).

Has anyone come across any mail2fax site which tries to keep track of
other free fax services and forward faxes to one in the right area?

('Course if we could get some damn working ecash, we could fax it
anywhere -- sender pays:-)

Next stage -- anonymous voice mail delivered via voice modem /
soundcard, all via mixmaster, that would be nice!

Adam




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 10:16:51 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: RE: FYI: More on WebTV security
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


From: Pablo Calamera 
To: "'dstoler@globalpac.com'" , rah@shipwright.com,
        mac-crypto@vmeng.com
Cc: jimg@mentat.com
Subject: RE: FYI: More on WebTV security
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 17:19:11 -0700

comments inserted, extraneous text deleted.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: dstoler@globalpac.com [mailto:dstoler@globalpac.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 1998 5:39 AM
> To: Pablo Calamera; rah@shipwright.com; mac-crypto@vmeng.com
> Cc: jimg@mentat.com
> Subject: Re: FYI: More on WebTV security
>
> [stuff deleted]
> The press release implies that there is secure end-to-end
> email between two WebTV customers.

The wording is somewhat ambiguous though it does have more of a bent on the
security of the transport layer.  Perhaps it could have been clearer and
specifically said that messages where encrypted during transport using 128
bit encryption.

> Perhaps I am overly cynical, but I am guessing that they are
> using SSL (TLS) from a web based email application on the
> client to WebTV's servers. I presume email data is decrypted
> at the servers, then re-encrypted to the recipient when she
> uses the WebTV client to read email.

Close.  We could not even export SSL (TLS) with 128 encryption in this
scenario.  We have a proprietary transport protocol that we use that employs
128 bit RC4.

> This approach would allow access to private email at the
> servers by WebTV employees or law enforcement agencies.
>
> Note the careful use of the phrases "unauthorized party" and
> "without posing undo risks to national security and law
> enforcement" in the press release.
>
> I believe that WebTV's email security is directly coupled to
> their ability to establish and enforce good security policy
> within their operation and the trustworthiness of the
> employees who have access to sensitive data.

Partially true. We believe a major component of our security is indeed in
the encrypted transport of your email from the service through the internet,
through a leased POP to your box.  Our Privacy Policy and Terms of Service
are available for your viewing.
  http://webtv.net/home/privacy_text.html
  http://webtv.net/home/tos_text2.html

This level of protection goes beyond email to registration,
preferences/setup, "favorites" etc...  Virtually all communications with the
WebTV service.

> I am concerned that carefully constructed wording of
> Microsoft's press release implies stronger email security
> than really exists. I hope I am wrong.

We believe that with the level of encryption and the quality of our network
operations that we have the best level of privacy protection for our users
of any online service.  I agree that the carefully worded press release may
imply more than what we got.  But we are very happy with this initial step.
It has taken a very long time just to get export approval for this
architecture and we look forward to further relaxation of export controls so
we can compete on even footing with our foreign competitors.

Pablo

> David Stoler
>
>
> Key paragraphs from Microsoft's press release:
>
> WebTV Networks has been granted the first export license to
> use strong 128-bit encryption for any user and any
> application in Japan and the United Kingdom. So, for example,
> an e-mail message with personal information sent from a WebTV
> subscriber in Japan to a second WebTV subscriber in Japan
> will be sent securely because there is no known technology by
> which an unauthorized party could intercept and decipher it.
>
> Therefore, as part of the WebTV Network, the WebTV-based
> Internet terminal (starting at under $100) is now the most
> secure communications device available from a U.S. company.
>
> "WebTV Networks' export approval is a significant step for
> industry and reflects the U.S. government's commitment to
> promoting e-commerce abroad," said William Reinsch, U.S.
> undersecretary for export administration. "The WebTV Network
> provides secure communications for its customers and partners
> without posing undue risks to national security and law enforcement."
>
>
>

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Mohammed Lazhar" 
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 09:55:46 +0800
To: Secret_Squirrel_ 
Subject: Re: wtf...
Message-ID: <8525669F.0005D1D4.00@notes.cch-lis.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



hey Guys :
   I just subscribed to the list. I will be posting stuff soon
   Mohammed





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Edwin E. Smith" 
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 10:40:04 +0800
To: "Mohammed Lazhar" 
Subject: Re: wtf...
In-Reply-To: <8525669F.0005D1D4.00@notes.cch-lis.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19981015221032.007e2100@mailhost.IntNet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Thanks fot the warning.

At 09:05 PM 10/15/98 -0400, you wrote:
>hey Guys :
>   I just subscribed to the list. I will be posting stuff soon
>   Mohammed
>
>
>




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Edwin E. Smith" 
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 10:38:07 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: wtf...
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19981015221350.007ef5a0@mailhost.IntNet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Let's talk.



- -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0

mQGiBDPJm3oRBADUlbn8EX/UCyp3+lwiO8ZQLdG2QXQ8EdZ8+qOffbi5KKun3RVz
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CRBJjX+m+ejwLU30AJ0chm6vMGZkSEk8R9Ci2YFbjqj8gACgtfRQLBfyEDLdQ5A6
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1qlC8wXo+VMROU+28W65Szgg2gGnVqMU6Y9AVfPQB8bLQ6mUrfdMZIZJ+AyDvWXp
F9Sh01D49Vlf3HZSTz09jdvOmeFXklnN/biudE/F/Ha8g8VHMGHOfMlm/xX5u/2R
XscBqtNbno2gpXI61Brwv0YAWCvl9Ij9WE5J280gtJ3kkQc2azNsOA1FHQ98iLMc
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o8yxwoRjARKqGzrGoCB3x5mri6bHPdkQMWGJAD8DBRgzyZt7SY1/pvno8C0RAsdu
AJ9mc0T8wq8viIy+uuFmG/6w1xiMhACg6h1fCtucX3tOAVLKIUgEmss7AJE=
=U2JQ
- -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----



At 11:27 PM 10/15/98 -0000, you wrote:
>Has this list server died or is it just me?
>
>it seems like the list has died or is it just slowly fading into 
oblivion? It seems as though the only people still posting come from 
some great spam factory in left field. Have all of the questions been 
answered? Is everyone happy with the encryption they have? Doesn't 
anyone have any new thoughts on export restrictions, hash 
implementations, or the like? I know that I'm still out here, is 
anyone else?
>
>Does this ring a bell? 
>People must come and together deploy these systems for the common 
good.  Privacy only extends so far as the cooperation of one's 
fellows in society.  We the Cypherpunks seek your questions and your 
concerns and hope we may engage you so that we do not deceive 
ourselves.  We will not, however, be moved out of our course because 
some may disagree with our goals.
>
>Who else is out there?
>
>
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0
Charset: noconv

iQA/AwUBNiaSoEmNf6b56PAtEQKOhQCeJchkyv48Ksi+0L+YIKEpv21wHqQAoIwl
cK9lvW97mHZmM0aDwzi/IC6l
=fUQ7
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Alex de Joode 
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 04:48:15 +0800
To: aba@dcs.ex.ac.uk (Adam Back)
Subject: Re: mail2fax remailer capability?
In-Reply-To: <199810151914.UAA08343@server.eternity.org>
Message-ID: <199810152017.WAA08543@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



www.tpc.int

> 
> 
> I am noticing the odd free email2fax "your fax was sent successfully"
> report in the dud messages sent to (the non-replyable)
> nobody@remailer.ch.
> 
> Warming to the heart that -- anonymous fax.
> 
> Now I am wondering what the coverage is like on fax gateways -- it
> clearly only is going to work in places where there are free local
> calls, for numbers counting as local to the gateway.
> 
> Just thinking it would be kind of nice if one could send a message
> 
> To: +1.234.567.891-mail2fax@anon.lcs.mit.edu
> 
> via mixmaster and have it sort out the delivery if possible to
> mail2fax gateways operating with local calls in that area code.
> (Analogously perhaps to the auto USENET posting from those remailers
> with this option turned on -- that is either direct (remailer posts)
> or indirect (forwarded to a mail2news gateway)).
> 
> Has anyone come across any mail2fax site which tries to keep track of
> other free fax services and forward faxes to one in the right area?
> 
> ('Course if we could get some damn working ecash, we could fax it
> anywhere -- sender pays:-)
> 
> Next stage -- anonymous voice mail delivered via voice modem /
> soundcard, all via mixmaster, that would be nice!
> 
> Adam
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 14:01:01 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: ** National ID Alert - Again **
Message-ID: <199810160538.WAA28778@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: Patrick Poole 
Subject: IP: ** National ID Alert - Again **
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 12:08:54 -0400
To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com

We have been made aware by concerned staff members on the Hill that the
one-year moratorium on implementing the National ID regulations is once
again under attack from Rep. Lamar Smith. Not more than a week ago we
sent out a similar alert after Smith was successful in convincing
Speaker Gingrich to remove the provision from the bill. After our alert,
many of you called Speaker Gingrich and told him "No to the National
ID". Because of your prompt action and phone calls, he was forced to
back down and allow the moratorium provision in the Omnibus
Appropriations Act for FY99. 

Now, in the waning hours of the 105th Congress, Gingrich is wavering on
the issue and considering pulling the one-year moratorium from the bill
at Smith's request. We need your help to stop Lamar Smith's stealth
attacks on our freedoms by calling his office and Speaker Gingrich and
telling them both, "No National ID for the American people!" The bill
will probably come to a vote in the House TODAY. IT IS IMPERATIVE THAT
YOU * CALL * THEIR OFFICES. With all of the last minute legislative
activity occurring today, a phone call will be the only way that your
voice is heard on this matter.

Lamar Smith 		202/225-4236
Speaker Gingrich 	202/225-0600 

Thanks in advance for your prompt attention. 

Patrick Poole
Coalition for Constitutional Liberties
Free Congress Foundation




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with the message:
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**********************************************
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**********************************************




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 13:59:47 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: HOUSE APPROVES Y2K BILL
Message-ID: <199810160538.WAA28791@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: "Peter J. Celano" 
Subject: IP: HOUSE APPROVES Y2K BILL
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 13:24:30 -0400
To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com

HOUSE APPROVES Y2K BILL

 The U.S. House of Representative has voted
407-3 to authorize the president's Council on the Year 2000
Conversion to take control of computer systems of critical agencies
if they're unlikely to be able to avert a crisis because of the Year
2000 software problem, in which old programs using 2-digit codes for
years will be unable to do correct date-based calculations.  The
Senate has not yet voted on the measure.  (AP 13 Oct 98) 




**********************************************
To subscribe or unsubscribe, email:
     majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com
with the message:
     (un)subscribe ignition-point email@address
**********************************************
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**********************************************




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 14:00:04 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: ISP not liable for customer's messages
Message-ID: <199810160538.WAA28804@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: "Peter J. Celano" 
Subject: IP: ISP not liable for customer's messages
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 13:25:31 -0400
To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com

INTERNET PROVIDER NOT LIABLE FOR MESSAGES OF ITS CUSTOMERS

An appeals court in Florida has ruled against a woman who sued 
America Online because one of its customers, a convicted sex 
offender, used an AOL chat group to try to sell the woman's 
11-year-old son a pornographic video. The court said that federal law 
protects online services from being held liable for the messages 
transmitted by their members sell the videotape of the boy. The 
defeated lawsuit, which is being appealed to the Supreme Court, tried 
to characterize America Online as "a home shopping network for 
pedophiles and child pornographers."  (AP/Washington Post 15 Oct 98)
--
Peter J. Celano    petec@iname.com
pgp key on request
   member SPECLUSA    < ><
Ready to DO something?  Try 
Always remember - LIPS SINK SHIPS!!!




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Secret Squirrel 
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 07:54:50 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: wtf...
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Has this list server died or is it just me?

it seems like the list has died or is it just slowly fading into oblivion? It seems as though the only people still posting come from some great spam factory in left field. Have all of the questions been answered? Is everyone happy with the encryption they have? Doesn't anyone have any new thoughts on export restrictions, hash implementations, or the like? I know that I'm still out here, is anyone else?

Does this ring a bell? 
People must come and together deploy these systems for the common good.  Privacy only extends so far as the cooperation of one's fellows in society.  We the Cypherpunks seek your questions and your concerns and hope we may engage you so that we do not deceive ourselves.  We will not, however, be moved out of our course because some may disagree with our goals.

Who else is out there?




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Alan Olsen 
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 00:46:28 +0800
To: Robert Hettinga 
Subject: Re: "It's a Hardware Problem..."
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Tue, 13 Oct 1998, Robert Hettinga wrote:

> "Computer firewalls have always been dependent on software, which means
> they are 'soft' and subject to manipulations," says Larry Dalton, manager
> of Sandia's High Integrity Software Systems Engineering Department. "Our
> device is hardware and is extremely difficult to break into. You have one
> and only one chance in a million of picking exactly the right code compared
> to a one in 10,000 chance, with many additional chances, in most software
> firewalls. After one failed try, this new device mechanically shuts down
> and can't be reset and reopened except by the owner."

Sounds like a great denial of service attack.

alan@ctrl-alt-del.com | Note to AOL users: for a quick shortcut to reply
Alan Olsen            | to my mail, just hit the ctrl, alt and del keys.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Alan Olsen 
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 00:45:27 +0800
To: "Brown, R Ken" 
Subject: Re: Soccer Moms?
In-Reply-To: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F84C8@MSX11002>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Tue, 13 Oct 1998, Brown, R Ken wrote:

> 
> In the middle of an interesting article about digital cash, forwarded
> here by Bob Hettinga, there was the line:
> 
> > After all, the kind of soccer moms who elected Bill Clinton
> 
> "Divided by a common language" as I am  I genuinly don't know what that
> means. And I can't even guess from context. I'd have expected a dig at
> liberals or feminists or welfare recipients at that point; and I can't
> work out what soccer has to do with it.
> 
> Do mothers play soccer much in the USA?
> 
> Football (as the 95% of the world's population that aren't either
> English-speaking North Americans or else Rugby fans call the Beautiful
> Game) is associated in my mind with young men, specifically working
> class men. It's connotations are entirely macho, even violent.  When a
> big match is on men gather in pubs and bars and shout at TVs whilst
> knocking back the lager. You avoid the centre of town if you don't want
> to risk getting involved in a fight.  People get *killed* at football
> matches.  That's pretty much true in every big city inthe world outside
> North America (and Japan where the fans are polite). 
> 
> This honestly isn't a troll - I am in fact bewildered by the phrase.  

Basically the phrase refers to suburban housewives.  (Mothers who have
time to take their little sprogs to school soccer games and the like.)

The image of suburban housewives getting involved in World Cup style
brawls and rioting does have a certain appeal though. ]:>

alan@ctrl-alt-del.com | Note to AOL users: for a quick shortcut to reply
Alan Olsen            | to my mail, just hit the ctrl, alt and del keys.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Eric Cordian 
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 15:08:17 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: IP: ISP not liable for customer's messages
In-Reply-To: <199810160538.WAA28804@netcom13.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <199810160639.BAA18347@wire.insync.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




> An appeals court in Florida has ruled against a woman who sued 
> America Online because one of its customers, a convicted sex 
> offender, used an AOL chat group to try to sell the woman's 
> 11-year-old son a pornographic video. The court said that federal law 
> protects online services from being held liable for the messages 
> transmitted by their members sell the videotape of the boy. The 
> defeated lawsuit, which is being appealed to the Supreme Court, tried 
> to characterize America Online as "a home shopping network for 
> pedophiles and child pornographers."  (AP/Washington Post 15 Oct 98)

As I recall, the individual was trying to sell a pornographic video
featuring the woman's 11 year old son, which is another thing entirely.

-- 
Eric Michael Cordian 0+
O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division
"Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 21:46:10 +0800
To: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Message-ID: <4.0.2.19981016085918.0093d950@mail.well.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Read my story at wired.com for details -- no need to panic.

-Declan






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 21:38:36 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: DoT National ID card delayed; CDA II signed soon
Message-ID: <199810161306.GAA11596@smtp.well.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





>Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 18:45:12 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Declan McCullagh 
>To: politech@vorlon.mit.edu
>Subject: FC: DoT National ID card delayed; CDA II signed soon
>X-No-Archive: Yes
>Sender: owner-politech@vorlon.mit.edu
>Reply-To: declan@well.com
>X-Loop: politech@vorlon.mit.edu
>X-URL: Politech is at http://www.well.com/~declan/politech/
>
>http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/15635.html
>
>Newt Caves on National ID Cards
>by Declan McCullagh 
>
>                     5:45 p.m.  15.Oct.98.PDT
>                     When the staff at the conservative Free
>                     Congress Foundation learned Thursday
>                     that legislation postponing a federal plan
>                     to standardize US drivers licenses was in
>                     trouble, they turned to the Internet for
>                     help. 
>
>                     Patrick Poole, deputy director of the
>                     groups Center for Technology Policy,
>                     quickly fired off an email alert to 500
>                     grassroots conservative and libertarian
>                     groups. He said Representative Lamar
>                     Smith (R-Texas) was trying to preserve
>                     regulations creating de facto national ID
>                     cards, and he urged readers to let
>                     Congress know exactly what middle
>                     America thought about such big
>                     government boondoggles...
>
>
>
>http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/15638.html
>
>CDA II Bound for Clinton's Desk
>by Declan McCullagh 
>
>                     2:45 p.m.  15.Oct.98.PDT
>                     Wielding a potent political bludgeon -- by
>                     accusing Democrats of being soft on
>                     pornography just weeks before the
>                     election -- Republicans on Thursday
>                     inserted the sequel to the
>                     Communications Decency Act into a
>                     sprawling $500 billion spending bill. 
>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>POLITECH -- the moderated mailing list of politics and technology
>To subscribe: send a message to majordomo@vorlon.mit.edu with this text:
>subscribe politech
>More information is at http://www.well.com/~declan/politech/
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Pallas Anonymous Remailer 
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 01:22:13 +0800
To: squirrel7@nym.alias.net>
Subject: Re: wtf...
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





Mohammed Lazhar wrote:
> 
> hey Guys :
>    I just subscribed to the list. I will be posting stuff soon
>    Mohammed

Please let me know as soon as you post amything!!!




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 21:12:54 +0800
To: pablo@microsoft.com
Subject: Re: FYI: More on WebTV security
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199810160938.KAA13027@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Pablo Calamera writes:
> > Perhaps I am overly cynical, but I am guessing that they are
> > using SSL (TLS) from a web based email application on the
> > client to WebTV's servers. I presume email data is decrypted
> > at the servers, then re-encrypted to the recipient when she
> > uses the WebTV client to read email.
> 
> Close.  We could not even export SSL (TLS) with 128 encryption in
> this scenario.  We have a proprietary transport protocol that we use
> that employs 128 bit RC4.

Hope you are doing sensible things with RC4 -- sounds like you/webTV
group know what you are doing, but we have seen a lot of dumb things
done with RC4 by microsoft (and by others) in the last couple of
years.  Things like using the same key multiple times (doh!) etc.

Only it is worrying that they would refuse SSL (which is presumably
going to be 128 bit RC4) and make you design another SSL-alike
replacement which uses the same cipher and key size.  Perhaps they are
hoping that you will make subtle errors in a non-peer reviewed
protocol.  As you have given them your protocol spec (they require
this, so I presume you have), it may be that your export permission
hinges on a exploitable flaw they have found.  SSL went through a few
revisions before it got to be very secure.

The other crucial point is this: do you use a forward secret key
negotation alogrithm?  So that a court ordered demand for decryption
definately only gets traffic from that point onwards (and not all
traffic going backwards if the LEA has been unofficially recording all
the traffic to the user / all users).

> Partially true. We believe a major component of our security is indeed in
> the encrypted transport of your email from the service through the internet,
> through a leased POP to your box.  Our Privacy Policy and Terms of Service
> are available for your viewing.
>   http://webtv.net/home/privacy_text.html
>   http://webtv.net/home/tos_text2.html

Will look at those, thanks.

> > I am concerned that carefully constructed wording of
> > Microsoft's press release implies stronger email security
> > than really exists. I hope I am wrong.
> 
> We believe that with the level of encryption and the quality of our network
> operations that we have the best level of privacy protection for our users
> of any online service.  

That's a strong claim.  I don't think you provide as much privacy as
say Infonex (pay with cash, no ID required), ssh, use a nymserver,
anonymous web pages etc.  There are a few others with similar offers
also.

I wonder -- do you archive mail?  (As it goes in the clear through
your mail hub which the users are connecting to.)

> I agree that the carefully worded press release may imply more than
> what we got.  But we are very happy with this initial step.  It has
> taken a very long time just to get export approval for this
> architecture and we look forward to further relaxation of export
> controls so we can compete on even footing with our foreign
> competitors.

It does seem to be somewhat of a relaxation, and is potentially useful
at that.  For example Phil Karn said Qualcomm where refused use of
3DES between their US and an non-US office with only their own staff
using it, though this was a few years ago.

In all I am very pleased to see this being discussed.  Microsoft as a
norm does not get involved in answering it's critics (in other than
carefully spun press releases).  

Thanks!

Adam
-- 
print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<>
)]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 02:07:48 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: IP: ISP not liable for customer's messages
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199810161720.MAA19054@wire.insync.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Mr. Wombat writes:

> > As I recall, the individual was trying to sell a pornographic video
> > featuring the woman's 11 year old son, which is another thing entirely.

> Not really. If the service providor is to be held accountable for what 
> its members post/say/etc., they would have to monitor *all* traffic in 
> order to police their members. In addition, even if the providor *were* 
> monitoring, they can only be reactive - do you expect them to monitor and 
> censor all traffic before releasing it?

I was merely correcting a factual error in the prior post. 

Clearly, a parent is likely to feel more outrage towards AOL if
pornographic videos of their 11 year old son are being openly sold online
by the child's victimizer, than if some random person tries to sell said
11 year old a piece of mainstream erotica. 

Pointing out why this parent is so bent out of shape over this is not the
moral equivalent of suggesting that servuce providers should be held
accountable for content they do not originate, which I do not support. 

-- 
Eric Michael Cordian 0+
O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division
"Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: cypherpunks@toad.com
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 20:51:18 +0800
To: 
Subject: ADfilter 2.1 Registration Code
Message-ID: <0174930471110a8CLWEB1@clweb1.i-way.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Thank you for trying ADfilter 2.0

Your email address is: cypherpunks@toad.com
Your personal ADfilter key is X3KCZ-K9994

Visit our web site at http://www.adfilter.com to purchase the full
ADfilter 2.0 Professional for just US$19.95!

Installing ADfilter:
Run ADFSETUP.EXE. This will install ADfilter on your computer. As soon as
installation is complete, ADfilter will show you a registration screen.
Enter the e-mail address to which your registration key has been sent (you
entered this before you downloaded ADfilter) and the registration code
that has been sent to that e-mail address. Remember to include all
punctuation when completing these two fields.

Check that the ADfilter icon appears in your Windows system tray (bottom
right of your screen). The icon is green when ADfilter is on and red when
ADfilter is off. Double-clicking the icon opens ADfilter's configuration
screens.

If you encounter any difficulties you will find additional help on the
ADfilter support page or you can contact us at support@adfilter.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: HyperReal-Anon 
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 22:05:41 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Disk (block device) encryption for Linux and *BSD?
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Apologies for the interruption,

I'm looking for disk / partition encryption for Unix-alikes, especially
Linux, OpenBSD and/or NetBSD.

My websearch has been less than satisfactory - I found outdated Linux
kernel patches for encryption loopback, and I distinctly remember reading
about a serious bug in the use (or lack thereof) of key material in this
code.

Do patches for a current Linux kernel exist, and have all the known
bugs been fixed?

Also, there seems to be no version of Marutukku about that I can actually
get to work on *BSD. Is Marutukku still being developed?

Generally, is there a good page that tracks disk encryption for Unix?

I'm currently using cfs here and there, and I have a specific question
about that package, too:

Does the cypherpunks list trust the patches that add Blowfish support
to cfs?

Questions questions..




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Pallas Anonymous Remailer 
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 06:32:36 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Adam Back
Message-ID: <0bd290677b2efe4d0a531bc586530176@anonymous>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=35781839




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 06:33:15 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.47: High-Tech Spying Gear Not Just For 007
Message-ID: <199810162207.PAA09993@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: "ama-gi ISPI" 
Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.47: High-Tech Spying Gear Not Just For 007
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 00:37:06 -0700
To: 

ISPI Clips 5.47: High-Tech Spying Gear Not Just For 007
News & Info from the Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI)
Friday October 16, 1998
ISPI4Privacy@ama-gi.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This From: ABC News.com, October 7, 1998
http://www.abcnews.com

Surveillance Tools Get Smarter, Smaller
What the Watchers Use
http://www.abcnews.com/sections/tech/DailyNews/spytech981007.html

By
Chris Stamper, spies@stamper.com
ABCNEWS.com

Are you being watched? Or listened to? High-tech spying gear is making
surveillance easier as the equipment gets smaller. And it's not restricted
to Big Brother.   The Searchcam allows for filming in tight
corners.(Surveillance Systems)

     Bill DeArman, a senior special agent of the Customs Service, says that
most privacy threats today come from gizmos bought in shopping malls, not
obtained on the black market from KGB or Mossad defectors. A cheap
disposable camera or a hand-held tape recorder can be as dangerous as the
latest surveillance equipment.

    "People are looking for the ultimate gizmos, but the people who commit
crimes aren't necessarily high-tech," DeArman says.


What the Pros Use:

But if it's the high-end, expensive gear you want, that's increasingly
available to civilians.

    Pinhole video cameras, for example, can be hidden in an wide variety of
household products. "You need a hole as small as 1/16 of an inch." says
Jeff Hall, vice president of Gadgets By Design, a Lansing, Mich.-based
company that makes surveillance equipment. "We've put them in light
fixtures, computers and VCRs."

    A basic pinhole video cam costs $129, according to Hall.

    They're called "pinhole" because they have extremely small lenses, not
because they resemble the toys children make from oatmeal boxes. A wire
runs from the tiny TV camera to a transmitter or a recording VCR. Hall's
company has hidden these cameras in hats, thermostats, wristwatches and
smoke detectors.

     Most of the company's sales come from businesses that want to keep
track of their stock or watch their employees. "If you wanted to put a
camcorder in the back room, it's hard to do that inconspicuously," he says.
"We have to get smaller and smaller to stay one step ahead of the bad
guys."


The Latest Fashion:

A New York company called Electronic Security Products sells wearable
cameras disguised as brooches, pens and eyeglasses. "They're used for
recording video one-on-one," says company president Avi Gilor. A wire runs
from the camera to a transmitter concealed in a pocket.

      If there's no light to see by, then infrared can come in handy.
Bakersfield, Calif.-based Search Systems sells the probelike Searchcam
($10,687) to law enforcement and rescue workers in tight corners. An
infrared camera shaped like a long nightstick, the Searchcam is meant to be
poked into small openings such as heat vents, doorways and windowsills.

     "Officers in a high-risk situation can extend their eyes and ears in
places where they wouldn't put their heads," says Scott Park, president of
Search Systems.


Listen to Birds-Not People:

U.S. law says little about video surveillance, so just about anyone can
watch you without fear of prosecution. Audio surveillance, on the other
hand, is regulated by the 1984 Omnibus Crime Control Act, and arrests and
prosecutions for eavesdropping are not uncommon. Ronald Kimble, America's
biggest spy shop owner, is currently serving a five-month sentence after
being busted in 1995 on 70 counts of dealing in illegal wiretapping
equipment. Kimble spent 11 years as an agent with the Drug Enforcement
Agency before starting a chain of stores called The Spy Factory.

    Bugging devices, often hidden in household items, are confiscated daily
at the border by Customs agents. The Customs Service says the law is too
weak, however; criminals only face up to six months for each count of
importing spy equipment.    A camera could be hiding in what appears to be
a thermostat. (Gadgets by Design)

    "The consensus of opinion is that technology has grown so rapidly, so
quickly, that laws aren't up to speed," says agent DeArman.

    Often the legality of an item depends on its use. Parabolic
microphones, for example, can be legally used for bird-watching or for
professionally recording sports events. These devices, which look like
small, hand-held satellite dishes, are 75 times more powerful than standard
mikes and usually cost about $900.

    "A parabolic microphone, if it looks like a dish at a football game, is
a legal device," DeArman says " If you disguise it as an umbrella to listen
to what people have to say, then it's illegal."

Copyright (c)1998 ABCNEWS


--------------------------------NOTICE:------------------------------
ISPI Clips are news & opinion articles on privacy issues from
all points of view; they are clipped from local, national and international
newspapers, journals and magazines, etc. Inclusion as an ISPI Clip
does not necessarily reflect an endorsement of the content or opinion
by ISPI. In compliance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed free without profit or payment for non-profit research
and educational purposes only.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 06:33:29 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Silent Weapon of Mass Destruction
Message-ID: <199810162207.PAA10003@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Silent Weapon of Mass Destruction
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 11:25:31 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  Washington Times
http://www.WashTimes.com/opinion/grenier.html

The silent weapon

 By Richard Grenier
 THE WASHINGTON TIMES

There is a certain logic to it, I suppose. Two nuclear
 explosions in Japan half a century ago, with great blasts,
 great noise, mushroom clouds, many dead. It terrified America
 and much of the world and, except for military circles, little
 thought was given to the estimated million American soldiers
 who might have given their lives if they'd tried to storm Japan
 without the nuclear bombs' aid.

But that's the way it goes. A historical event surrounded by
 great theatrical effects makes a really big impression. But what
 if the next weapon of mass destruction is silent, gives no
 warning, is not preceded by a pyrotechnic blast, but takes
 effect more slowly, leaving hospitals swamped, and millions in
 great American cities with hideously blistered faces dying in the
 streets?

The doctors sent to succor them also die the same painful
 and unsightly deaths. For biological weapons now have the
 potential to wipe out cities, states and even entire national
 populations if positioned in the air, water supply or food
 supply. The food supply would progressively be shipped to
 various parts of the country, ultimately killing millions of people.
 And all, except for the groans of the dying, could be done in
 relative silence, with only the piles of dead in the streets to bear
 witness as in the Plague Years of the Middle Ages.

As pointed out by former Secretary of Defense William
 Perry, most biological agents are sensitive to heat, and
 ready-to-eat foods are the most likely vehicles for mass
 contamination. So eat up your Quick Burger and fries with
 confidence that death will soon follow. Food processing plants
 and water purification facilities also provide tempting targets.

Microorganisms, it should be noted, are a very inexpensive
 way to exterminate entire populations. Above all, many
 microorganisms can be cheaply grown, each having its own
 unique uses. As stressed by Carl Yaeger of Utah Valley State
 College and Steven Fustero, IACSP Director of Operations,
 this is a great advantage in deciding the effect wished to be
 brought about on the section of the population at which the
 attack is directed. Since the organisms are capable of rapid
 reproduction, only a small amount is required to infect a very
 large area.

But possibly more interesting than the large area to be
 infected is the selectivity. With the development of biochemistry
 and genetic engineering, it might be possible to target ethnic
 groups -- which, once it is announced to the general public,
 should do wonders for the harmony of America's various ethnic
 and racial groupings. Judging by some recent events, there are
 not a few extremist groups in the United States that would give
 little thought to wiping out thousands of "undesirables." This
 kind of germ weapon would be highly prized in the hands of
 terrorist groups, and in the hands of these terrorists could well
 be more lethal than tactical nuclear weapons.

A terrorist can accomplish his agenda in many ways with
 biological weapons. Terrorists are creative and use varying
 tactics, as is spelled out in Yonah Alexander's book
 "International Terrorism." The book gives an alarming list of
 different styles of terrorism in different parts of the world.
 Contributing to the problem is the easy availability of
 information for anyone who would mix up a bag of anything
 toxic from recipes readily accessible on the internet.

As Fred Reed points out in his essay "Publishing Do It
 Yourself Munitions Books Increases the Risk of Terrorism,"
 much of this information is not that hard to get. Even nerve gas
 has a patent that makes the formula public. Biological weapons
 do not have a single, unique effect. Human beings along with
 other animals are constantly being attacked by disease-causing
 bacteria and viruses.

Biological weapons, for the most part, create the same
 effects as any of the wide variety of naturally occurring
 diseases, which makes tracking them down so baffling. These
 artificial agents could be used merely to weaken the targeted
 population, to intimidate it with no intention of inflicting wide
 scale casualties, or simply to wipe it out. The options are many.

Biological agents can also be selective in another way, as
 they could be used to target crops and cattle or to start an
 epidemic of a highly dangerous disease such as smallpox.
 Furthermore, if an agent were released in the proper way, it
 could be months before anyone even knew how the epidemic
 had started. And there are many other advantages of using
 biological weapons. Terrorists do not necessarily need or want
 a weapon of mass destruction. A simpler biological weapon
 might be more controllable and kill enough people to suit the
 terrorists' purposes.

Still another advantage could be secrecy and concealment.
 Limited attacks could be carried out secretly before open
 "hostilities" even began. As you can see, a whole new age of
 warfare is beginning. According to an excellent PBS "Frontline"
 documentary aired this week, the Soviet Union, even under
 Mikhail Gorbachev, had already broken an international
 agreement restricting chemical and biological weapons.

But given the collapse of the Soviet Union, and the
 subsequent chaos into which Russia has since been plunged,
 where are those Russian weapons now? Perhaps, wherever
 they are -- and this is an uneasy thought -- they could be
 prepared to kill millions by being disseminated in the air by
 cans of hair spray. But most Americans don't want to think
 about this. 

Copyright (c) 1998 News World Communications, Inc.
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 05:09:58 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Is it Keynes or Is it .... ?
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



And now, ladies and germs, the "Spit Take of the Week" award winner...

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga

--- begin forwarded text


Date:         Fri, 16 Oct 1998 14:12:55 EDT
Reply-To: Hayek Related Research 
Sender: Hayek Related Research 
From: Hayek-L List Host 
Subject:      Is it Keynes or Is it .... ?
To: HAYEK-L@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU

 >>   Is It Keynes?   <<    --   The End of Laissez-Faire


"A year or so from now, it will be difficult to find
a single person who admits ever having believed
that a global free market is a sensible way of
running the world economy .. The late-twentieth-
century political fad for the free market arose
at a time when memory of it had faded.  Mid-Victorian
laissez-faire was short-lived .. The free market came
about in England as a result not of slow evolution
but swiftly, as a consequence of the unremitting use
of the power of the state ..  The free market
withered away gradually, thought the natural workings
of democratic political competition ...

The short history of the free market in nineteenth-
century England illustrates a vital truth: Democracy and
the free market are rivals, not allies.  'Democratic
capitalism' -- the vacuous rallying cry of neoconservatives
everywhere -- signifies (or conceals) a deeply
problematic relationship.  The normal concomitant
of free markets is not stable democratic government
but the volatile -- and not always democratic -- politics
of economic insecurity.

History exemplifies an equally important fact:
Free market economies lack built-in stabilizers.
Without effective management by government,
they are liable to recurrent booms and busts --
with all their costs in social cohesion and
political stability.  The Great Depression was
partly an aftershock of the First World War
.. But is was also a consequence of governments'
holding to an orthodoxy that believed that so
long as inflation is under control the economy
can be relied upon to be self-regulating ,,,"


It's John Gray in _The Nation_.  "Not for the First
Time, World Sours on Free Markets", Oct. 19, 1998.



Is it Keynes is special service of the Hayek-L list.

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: HyperReal-Anon 
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 01:32:43 +0800
To: sendus@earthcorp.com>
Subject: Re: LUGGAGE, GARMENT BAGS, BREIFCASES, ETC.
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Ms. Anges Lek,
Managing Director

We have urgent need for suitcases that enable transport of laptop computers
through customs without search. Please provide case histories.

Tim May wrote:
> 
> At 5:07 AM -0700 10/15/98, sendus@earthcorp.com wrote:
> >Dear reader,
> >
> >We have just visited your website and became interested to develop a
> >trading relationship with you company.
> >
> >We are a major manufacturer of a full range of luggage, bags, and
> >trolleys.For full details
> >mailto:sendus@earthcorp.com?Subject=BESTPLUS_IDUSTRIES_LTD.
> >
> >Thank you very much,
> >
> >Ms. Anges Lek,
> >Managing Director
> >
> 
> Thank you for posting this to our list!
> 
> We are very interested in specialized types of luggage. We seek suitcases
> and briefcases in which various items may be hidden. The usual items:
> money, papers, drugs, chemicals, and various pyrotechnic assemblies.
> 
> Please describe your experience in fabricating such items, and please list
> some of your more famous clients.
> 
> Warning: We have very high standards! The luggage we use now has been used
> to export the PGP source code disks to Finland and Holland, and such
> esteemed travellers as Pablo Escobar, Abu Nidal, and the Engineer have used
> the same products we use.
> 
> We look forward to your reply.
> 
> --Asama bin May, Director of Delivery Operations, World Liberation Front




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 07:14:58 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Is it Keynes or Is it .... ? (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810162255.RAA32566@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 16:09:02 -0400
> From: Robert Hettinga 
> Subject: Is it Keynes or Is it .... ?

> Date:         Fri, 16 Oct 1998 14:12:55 EDT
> From: Hayek-L List Host 
> Subject:      Is it Keynes or Is it .... ?

> "A year or so from now, it will be difficult to find
> a single person who admits ever having believed
> that a global free market is a sensible way of
> running the world economy

No global economy is a good economy, by its very definition it is a monopoly
and contrary to the entire precip of free-market pundits.

A free-market is exclusively a *local* market.

> laissez-faire was short-lived .. The free market came
> about in England as a result not of slow evolution

No it didn't, it's the basic economic structure that everything else gets
built on. You start out with a completely free-market and build from there.
Free markets are for cavepeople.

> but swiftly, as a consequence of the unremitting use
> of the power of the state ..  The free market
> withered away gradually, thought the natural workings
> of democratic political competition ...

No, human psychology is what kills it.

> century England illustrates a vital truth: Democracy and
> the free market are rivals, not allies.

Duh. Economics has nothing to do with civil liberties or crimes.

One of the failures in current political and economic thought is the
necessity for the *government* to regulate the money. It isn't a new belief
either since it is embodies in our Constitution.

What is required for a free-market is a mechanism for 'fair competition'.
The problem is there is no way under a free-market to define fair or
competition.

> problematic relationship.  The normal concomitant
> of free markets is not stable democratic government
> but the volatile -- and not always democratic -- politics
> of economic insecurity.

This is circular reasoning. A free-market is not compatible to democracy (of
course not since a free-market requires two party economic contracts
exculsively) but is compatible with a market that is solely stabalized by
economic (in)security (which is a free-market economy after all).

> History exemplifies an equally important fact:
> Free market economies lack built-in stabilizers.
> Without effective management by government,
> they are liable to recurrent booms and busts --
> with all their costs in social cohesion and
> political stability.

Duh...

> .. But is was also a consequence of governments'
> holding to an orthodoxy that believed that so

Governments *are* a form of orthodoxy, they don't hold onto it since they
embody the concepts of orthodoxy.

> long as inflation is under control the economy
> can be relied upon to be self-regulating ,,,"

Nobody with half-a-clue believe this.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: DOOM Anonymous Untraceable User 
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 00:28:10 +0800
To: billh@ibag.com>
Subject: Re: Who is next? (re Jim's subpoena)
Message-ID: <199810161605.SAA04880@rogue.seclab.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Could you mean this....

                First they came for the Communists,
                  and I didn't speak up,
                    because I wasn't a Communist.
                Then they came for the Jews,
                  and I didn't speak up,
                    because I wasn't a Jew.
                Then they came for the Catholics,
                  and I didn't speak up,
                    because I was a Protestant.
                Then they came for me,
                  and by that time there was no one
                    left to speak up for me.

                by Rev. Martin Niemoller, 1945.



William J. Hartwell wrote:
> 
> This ran through my mind this morning before I was totally awake. Maybe
> somebody can help me with the original author of this....
> 
> When they came for Kevin Mitnick I said nothing. After all he was a big
> time hacker and I wasn't a hacker so I did not speak up.
> 
> When they came for Jim Bell I said nothing. He was a criminal and I am not
> a criminal so I didn't speak up.
> 
> When they came for Toto I said nothing. Surely he was nuts and I am
> completely sane so I didn't speak up.
> 
> When they came for Jim Choate I said nothing. He runs a cypherpunks mailing
> list and I don't manage any lists so I didn't speak up.
> 
> When they come for me who will be left to speak up?
> 
> This is a poor paraphrase of the original but I wonder if it is something
> that we may be saying here in the U.S. soon?
> 
> --
>                                         William J. Hartwell
>                                            (602)987-8436
>                                           Queencreek, Az.
> 
> billh@ibag.com                  billh@interdem.com              billh@hartwell.net




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 07:12:12 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: CL: The Economist on Giddens, Hayek & the LSE
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Beware of socialists pitching new paradigms. Maybe the Economist hasn't
succumbed to the "Cool Brittania" backwash as much as I thought it did --
nawwww....

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga

--- begin forwarded text


Date:         Fri, 16 Oct 1998 15:50:19 EDT
Reply-To: Hayek Related Research 
Sender: Hayek Related Research 
From: Hayek-L List Host 
Subject:      CL: The Economist on Giddens, Hayek & the LSE
To: HAYEK-L@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU

>>  Current Literature  <  --  Giddens  /  Political Thought at the LSE


'Bagehot', "The third way revealed", _The Economist_.  Sept 19, 1998.

>From the article:

"SOMETIMES you want to read a book a second time. You know, just to
make sure that there was nothing important you missed first time around.
In the end, though, Bagehot decided to skip the second reading of Anthony
Giddens's "The Third Way" ..  For the time being, first impressions
must stand. This book is awesomely, magisterially and in some ways
disturbingly vacuous.

Why disturbing? There are many bad books in the world. But the third way
is not just a parlour game for intellectuals puzzling over the content
of politics now that both socialism and "unbridled" capitalism are in
disrepute.
It has become the quasi-official political philosophy of Britain's governing
party, and is taken seriously enough to form the backdrop for a curious
political seminar that Bill and Hillary Clinton, Tony Blair and Romano
Prodi, the prime minister of Italy, plan to conduct in New York on September
23rd. Nor is "The Third Way" just any other book about what the third way
is. It is the first detailed account of it by the man who has become its
chief British prophet and interpreter. Even by the standards of the London
School of Economics, which provided a base for the likes of Friedrich Hayek,
the Webbs and Harold Laski, its present director exerts a powerful influence
on Downing Street. Of Mr Giddens (who, thanks to Mr Blair, shall be Lord
Giddens hereafter), as of no other living sociologist, it can be said that
what he thinks matters.

So what does he think? A large part of"The Third Way" consists of a
description
of where things stand after the death of socialism. Mr Giddens homes in
on "five dilemmas". In merciful summary, these are (i) that globalisation
is changing the meanings of nationhood, government and sovereignty. There
exists (2) a "new individualism" that is not necessarily selfish but which
means that social solidarity can no longer be imposed in a top-down way.
Although distinctions between left and right keep changing, the left cares
more about social justice and equality. However, (3), there is a category
of problems-such as global warming, devolution, the future of the European
Union-about which it is unhelpful to think in terms of left versus right.
(4) Some jobs (defence, lawmaking) can be done only by governments, even
though politicians are becoming less influential and pressure groups more
effective. And do not forget (5) that while environmental dangers can be
exaggerated it is highly dangerous to be sanguine about them, not least
because, as in the case of madcow disease, experts sometimes differ.

Hmm. At this point, the charitable reader may feel that although some of
these points may be obvious, and others arguable, Mr Giddens has at least
raised interesting questions. Moreover, they are original, in the narrow
sense that nobody else seems to have singled out these particular five
points and called them "dilemmas". The trouble with any argument constructed
at Mr Giddens's level of generalisation is that you begin to wonder whether
there might just as plausibly have been four dilemmas, or 14, or even whether
a different five could have been chosen just as easily  ..  But let
that pass. Philosophers describe the world. How does the prophet of
Britain's third way propose to change it?

Mr Giddens admits that what he is offering is merely an "outline". This
is a deceptive species of modesty given that what he claims to be outlining
is no less than "an integrated political programme covering each of the
major sectors of society." Here we learn amongst other things that
protectionism
is undesirable but so is a "blanket endorsement" of free trade; that there
should be no rights without responsibilities; that the protection of children
is the most important bit of family policy; that society should be "inclusive"
but not "strongly egalitarian"; that constitutions should aim for openness
and transparency; that there may be a case for a world criminal court;
that there is a need to control excessive overshoots in financial markets
but that the nature of these controls is "problematic"; that . .

But, really, why bother to go on?  .. it would have been nice  for Britain's
pre-eminent sociologist and the director of the LSE to come up with at
least one new proposal capable of ruffling at least someone's feathers.
Remember "The Road to Serfdom", Hayek's brave, hugely unfashionable
warning against planning made in the midst of a war that seemed to
have made planners indispensable?  By contrast, Mr Giddens's
integrated political programme boils down to a list of conventional appeals
to civic virtue, in which every bet is hedged and everyhard choice ducked.
It is just the sort of stuffthat could find its way risklessly into the
manifesto of any social democratic party interested in tarting up its image.

Which is presumably why he wrote it. Mr Giddens wants to restore the LSE
to a position of power and influence. How pleasing it must have been to
find in Tony Blair a clever, instinctive politician in the market for some
sort of ideology in which to dress up his opportunism. And how intellectually
disarming. Was it fear of setting out any positions that New Labour could
one day find embarrassing that made Mr Giddens write such a bad book? Whatever
the reason, the third way remains as mystifying as ever. Herbert Morrison-the
grandfather of Peter Mandelson, Mr Blair's cabinet colleague-once wickedly
defined socialism as what the Labour Party did. On the evidence of this
slight work, the third way is whatever New Labour does."



Anonymous, "Bagehot:  The third way revealed".  _The Economist_
Sept. 19, 1998  Vol: 348, Issue: 8086.  pp. 72-73.



Current Literature is a regular feature of the Hayek-L list.

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 08:27:26 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: CL: The Economist on Giddens, Hayek & the LSE (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810162359.SAA00011@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 18:50:16 -0400
> From: Robert Hettinga 
> Subject: CL: The Economist on Giddens, Hayek & the LSE

> Beware of socialists pitching new paradigms.

Or (the only good thing Reagen ever said),

Trust, but verify.

> must stand. This book is awesomely, magisterially and in some ways
> disturbingly vacuous.
...
> Prodi, the prime minister of Italy, plan to conduct in New York on September
> 23rd.

Is anyone going or know if the various discussions will be made available?

> on "five dilemmas". In merciful summary, these are (i) that globalisation
> is changing the meanings of nationhood, government and sovereignty. There
> exists

This is the definition of 'civilization', an effect that is clearly
observable by studying history. The relationship between citizen and state
depends on (among other things) speed of communication (or transport), and
resource control.

As the speed of transport increases nations have a tendency to homogenize or
share cultural traits (not to mention genes). As time goes by the nations
change size and number in relation to resource control, normaly you get a
few large countries and lots of smaller ones. As time goes by you'll see
more and more of the smaller nations forming combines, hegemonies, balkans,
etc. This tendency drives the globalization of human culture. It is a basic
aspect of human greed to want the whole shebang. That is a result of humans
being social in nature, and having a fundamental neurosis about self. What
finaly determines if one or more nations will exist is the general growth
rates of each fundamentaly (and this is a bitch to describe to any
precision) different national/social/psychological type. As long as none of
them have a growth rate that is hyperbolic in nature (ie infinite magnitude
in finite time) then a multiplicity of such 'nations' will continue to
exist. A fundamental question should be what and how to measure the growth
rates of nations within this context?

There also needs to be a fundamental distinction between government and
business, as is made with religions. Businesses need to be regulated but it
should be by a indipendant political system from that defining civil issues
regarding individuals. There should also be a distinct funding system which
is also indipendant, but responsible for providing all funding for the other
political agents. It would be regulated by some sort of representative
system whereby people could elect various officials to select the process
through a representative system. In short, every political entity in a
government should consist of publicly elected officials with appropriate
support staff. There should be strictly enforced and relatively short-lived
term limits. A distinction in allowable forces for a government to use
between exterior (army) threats and internal civil disturbance (militia),
and nary the two should meet or ever be involved in day to day law
enforcement. In regards the civil branch of the above (ie executive,
legislative, judiciary) the executive branch should also be some sort of
elected panel, the concept of an individual representative needs to die a
deserved death. Personaly I like the idea of a panel of single
representatives from each state.

> (2) a "new individualism" that is not necessarily selfish but which
> means that social solidarity can no longer be imposed in a top-down way.

It's about time. I believe that a study of polyocracies would provide a much
better model for a democratic system.

I've come to the conclusion that the best way to deal with human culture is
to base everything on the fundamental issue of individual distinction, this
is what it means for all people to be created equal.

> of problems-such as global warming, devolution, the future of the European
> Union-about which it is unhelpful to think in terms of left versus right.

That's because nature is by its very nature apolitical. Politics will
regulate human society, it won't control it.

> (4) Some jobs (defence, lawmaking) can be done only by governments, even

No, they can only be done by a monopoly. If they don't then the sorts of
social institutions we normaly talk about can't exist.

> though politicians are becoming less influential and pressure groups more
> effective.

Which sortta balances out thankfuly...

> should be no rights without responsibilities; that the protection of children
> is the most important bit of family policy;

Does he extrapolate this to some sort of all-encompassing social authorization
for government intervention as is currently trying to be implimented?

 that society should be "inclusive"
> but not "strongly egalitarian";

Which means what? We let people in but we don't treat them like they live
here?

 that constitutions should aim for openness
> and transparency;

What the hell does that mean?

> that there may be a case for a world criminal court;

Only if nations aren't responsible for their own citizens...

I'd like to see the day when one nation sues another in a world court for
harms against their citizens...if the proposed system will require this as
easily as a single nation dropping on a single individual then it won't
work.

> that there is a need to control excessive overshoots in financial markets
> but that the nature of these controls is "problematic"; that . .

Don't fall for the 'bigger is better' school of economics. Individualy
stable markets should be highly regional, probably not national and most
definitely not global. Stability comes from a voluntary long-term
relationship between participants.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Thomas Adams 
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 02:39:58 +0800
To: John Young 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 14:13 Uhr -0400 15.10.1998, John Young wrote:

>Bad Ausburg is the location of one of the NSA intercept stations
>for the Echelon program is it not?

I think you mean Bad Aibling.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Secret Squirrel 
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 04:13:45 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: IP: ISP not liable for customer's messages
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote:
> 
> INTERNET PROVIDER NOT LIABLE FOR MESSAGES OF ITS CUSTOMERS
> 
...
> The
> defeated lawsuit, which is being appealed to the Supreme Court, tried
> to characterize America Online as "a home shopping network for
> pedophiles and child pornographers."  (AP/Washington Post 15 Oct 98)

Hey, what about us clueless spamming sticker collectors???

-- an AOL32 Luser




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 09:55:59 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: "Annihilating less-than-useful contributors" (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810170132.UAA00278@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: Information Security 
> Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 20:38:51 -0400 (EDT)
> Subject: "Annihilating less-than-useful contributors"

> #   their interest in "freakish, left-handed mollusks," he said
> #   collaborative software is needed that liberates the creative
> #   power of the best people and "annihilates the counterproductive."
> #   According to Sterling, the latter includes idiots, spammers,
> #   and less-than-useful contributors.
> #   ...
> #   Sterling envisions an "online utopia" that would occur if
> #   Web- and email-leveraging software were automatically
> #   moderated. 
> #   ...
> #   "If you could do this, you could advance knowledge," he said.
> #   The Net and the collaboration it enables would be able to add
> #   to the sum of human knowledge. 

Assuming, without statement of course, that we know what information is
important *before* we know it exists and we need it...the same old failure
of all utopianist...they assume one size fits all.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 09:55:05 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Cyptography in the Information Age (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810170135.UAA00383@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 21:08:14 -0400
> Subject: Cyptography in the Information Age
> From: steve.benjamin@juno.com (Stephen Benjamin)

> My paper will contain a 6-line (perl) implemenation of
> RSA.	Is my report subject to current Encryption Laws?
> If so, which ones? I plan on making a big deal out of
> how a 15 page research paper can't be exported from the U.S.A.

The paper itself isn't subject to export restrictions at this point in time
as I understand it. Now if you included a barcode, floppy, or some other
machine readable/executable then that media would be under restrictions.

> Also, How can I generate RSA keys in perl?
> I found a C program to do it, but I don't have C installed.

Now you get to learn how to translate...


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 09:08:19 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: "Annihilating less-than-useful contributors"
Message-ID: <199810170038.UAA04041@panix7.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



[ snipped, see full article at Declan's new site ]

#   http://www.wired.com/news/news/technology/story/15611.html
#   
#   5:45 p.m.  14.Oct.98.PDT
#   SAN FRANCISCO -- Science fiction author Bruce Sterling
#   acknowledges that he isn't a programmer, or even a
#   contributor to the kind of openly developed software project
#   [Apache] that brought his audience together on Wednesday. 
#   ...
#   Using a fictional example of people gathered online around
#   their interest in "freakish, left-handed mollusks," he said
#   collaborative software is needed that liberates the creative
#   power of the best people and "annihilates the counterproductive."
#   According to Sterling, the latter includes idiots, spammers,
#   and less-than-useful contributors.
#   ...
#   Sterling envisions an "online utopia" that would occur if
#   Web- and email-leveraging software were automatically
#   moderated. 
#   ...
#   "If you could do this, you could advance knowledge," he said.
#   The Net and the collaboration it enables would be able to add
#   to the sum of human knowledge. 
#   ...
#   Successful implementation of such a concept, Sterling said,
#   is critical to the success of the Net as a so-called "gift
#   economy".... [This] economy should function more like an
#   [actual] economy," he said. A differing set of rewards should
#   be returned for a differing set of efforts. 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: steve.benjamin@juno.com (Stephen Benjamin)
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 09:56:19 +0800
To: mail2news_nospam-19981016-sci.crypt@anon.lcs.mit.edu
Subject: Cyptography in the Information Age
Message-ID: <19981016.210815.-1026785.0.Steve.Benjamin@juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



X-Posted: sci.crypt, cypherpunks mailing list

For my Advanced Computer Science course in school I'm required to do
a research paper each quarter.  I have decided to do this quarter's
paper on Cyptography in the Information Age.

My paper will contain a 6-line (perl) implemenation of
RSA.	Is my report subject to current Encryption Laws?
If so, which ones? I plan on making a big deal out of
how a 15 page research paper can't be exported from the U.S.A.

Also, How can I generate RSA keys in perl?
I found a C program to do it, but I don't have C installed.

Thanks for any help you can give me! and please reply
through e-mail!

----------------------------------------------------------
Stephen Benjamin
E-mail address: Stephen {DOT} Benjamin {AT} juno {DOT} com
----------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 11:05:42 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: CJ Indicted
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Court docket shows that CJ has been indicted for:

  18:115A.F Threaten to Murder certain Federal Law
  Enforcement Officers and Judges

This is in addition to the original complaint:

  For Violation of 18:115(a)(1)(B): Threatening to assassin
  IRA officers 

Yes, it says "assassin IRA."

The other humor is that upon indictment for criminal charges
on September 30 a bench warrant was issued for CJ's arrest.
The arrest warrant was "returned unexecuted" on October 9,
due to "warrant issued in error" by the same magistrate who
issued the first arrest warrant on August 5, apparently forgetting
or not knowing that CypherAssassin2 was mental evaluing with 
CypherAssassin1 in MO. 

See the docket:

   http://jya.com/cej101498.htm

BTW, on why Jim Bell and CJ stopped over in OKC on the way 
to Springfield, we've learned that the Federal Transportation
Center is in OKC. It so happens that the Bureau of Prisons issued 
a wad of rules and regs today just to handle the growing crowd of
alleged IRA-Nobelists and international Chuckies:

   http://jya.com/bop101698.htm






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 07:26:47 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday to Convicted Child Molester Gary Burnore
In-Reply-To: <199810140550.HAA15476@replay.com>
Message-ID: <199810162251.AAA06073@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



gburnore@databasix.com (Gary L. Burnore) whined:

> >[snip out-of-date, erroneous sex offender registration]

He means you're an ignorant asswipe who shouldn't have told the
North Carolina authorities of your child molestation conviction in
California.  Too late for that, and nuking the page on NC registered
sex offenders' site doesn't make your criminal conviction go away
retroactively.

> More likely the one and only anonymous asshole. AKA RFG@monkeys.com   
> Ignore him. He goes away.

"One and only" ... wow!  But if claim to know his identity, then he
isn't anonymous.  Make up your little perverted mind.  As for
ignoring him, you just can't take your own advice, can you?

Just because you're pissed that someone anonymously blew the whistle
on your pederasty in Santa Clara, CA by informing your victim's
mother and school officials is no reason for such ad hominem.  You
were busted fair and square, and your own guilty plea sealed your
fate.  BTW, did you ever ask yourself how this "RFG" character would
have known that you were screwing your live-in girlfriend's daughter
behind her back, if he's "the one and only anonymous asshole"?

Getting sexual predators like you identified so that your neighbors
with children can keep an eye on you is reason enough for anonymous
remailers to exist, given your history of harassment against anyone
who dares to criticize you.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 13:25:39 +0800
To: mail2news_nospam-19981016-sci.crypt@anon.lcs.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Cyptography in the Information Age
In-Reply-To: <19981016.210815.-1026785.0.Steve.Benjamin@juno.com>
Message-ID: <199810170458.VAA00701@smtp.well.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Let me know if you get arrested. I'll write about it.

-Declan



At 09:08 PM 10-16-98 -0400, Stephen Benjamin wrote:
>X-Posted: sci.crypt, cypherpunks mailing list
>
>For my Advanced Computer Science course in school I'm required to do
>a research paper each quarter.  I have decided to do this quarter's
>paper on Cyptography in the Information Age.
>
>My paper will contain a 6-line (perl) implemenation of
>RSA.	Is my report subject to current Encryption Laws?
>If so, which ones? I plan on making a big deal out of
>how a 15 page research paper can't be exported from the U.S.A.
>
>Also, How can I generate RSA keys in perl?
>I found a C program to do it, but I don't have C installed.
>
>Thanks for any help you can give me! and please reply
>through e-mail!
>
>----------------------------------------------------------
>Stephen Benjamin
>E-mail address: Stephen {DOT} Benjamin {AT} juno {DOT} com
>----------------------------------------------------------
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: mgraffam@idsi.net
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 14:03:46 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: PGP utils?
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Is there a utility for Unix (or source available?) that reads a PGP
encrypted message and displays some information on it, like what
key ID the message was encrypted with, and what ciphers were used?

Michael J. Graffam (mgraffam@idsi.net)
http://www.mhv.net/~mgraffam -- Philosophy, Religion, Computers, Crypto, etc
They (who) seek to establish systems of government based on the
regimentation of all human beings by a handful of individual rulers..
call this a new order. It is not new, and it is not order."
				- Franklin Delano Roosevelt




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: HyperReal-Anon 
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 11:32:43 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Disk (block device) encryption for Linux and *BSD?
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>Apologies for the interruption,
>
>I'm looking for disk / partition encryption for Unix-alikes, especially
>Linux, OpenBSD and/or NetBSD.

Good luck. We're in the same boat. I'm using Andrew Mileski's patches,
but they're outdated, only implement CAST-128 and IDEA, and the user
interface leaves a lot to be desired. Writing a new user interface
is on my project list, but of course I can't export the thing.

>My websearch has been less than satisfactory - I found outdated Linux
>kernel patches for encryption loopback, and I distinctly remember reading
>about a serious bug in the use (or lack thereof) of key material in this
>code.

Andrew Mileski  has patches available via FTP from 
fractal.mta.ca, but they're very outdated. I think they're against 2.1.64,
but they'll run with kernels up to the 90s. Kernels after about 2.1.105
are hopelessly broken with regard to Andrew's patches, so I wouldn't advise
even trying it. If you use his patches, use kernel 2.1.105 or below.

I think those are in /pub/aem/crypto.

>Do patches for a current Linux kernel exist, and have all the known
>bugs been fixed?

There are several different versions floating around. There was some set
of patches on ftp.csua.berkeley.edu but they're outdated too. There was a
hole in some DES code somebody was distributing. 

>Also, there seems to be no version of Marutukku about that I can actually
>get to work on *BSD. Is Marutukku still being developed?

Again, good luck.

>Generally, is there a good page that tracks disk encryption for Unix?
>
>I'm currently using cfs here and there, and I have a specific question
>about that package, too:
>
>Does the cypherpunks list trust the patches that add Blowfish support
>to cfs?

Every time I've used CFS it has locked up into some kind of recursive loop
where it eats more and more CPU time until it finally takes all it can get.
Other people have had the same problem on both Linux and BSD. Other people
never have any problems. No clue why.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: chatski carl 
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 22:34:20 +0800
To: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Subject: Re: IP: Silent Weapon of Mass Destruction
In-Reply-To: <199810162207.PAA10003@netcom13.netcom.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



A powerful statement of the obvious, with one important ommission: The
United states is the largest researcher, producer, experimenter with, and
user of biological weapons.  Despite 'honest' Dick Nixon's unilateral
pledge in 1972 that the US would not produce offensive BW weapons, they
have been doing so, keeping pace with developments in molecular biology.
Much research and development is privatized; it is not prohibited for
private corporations to develop such weapons.

A few observations:

The Army has used the term "Ethnic Biological weapons" since the late
60's.

There are 2 kinds of BW weapons development:
  o	battlefield weapons
  o	weapons of class warfare ( suitable for covert long term use
	against all or subsets of the civilian population ). 

And finally as one observes "new" diseases, one should remember that the
main thrust of the major BW research since the end of wwII, has been
against the immune system ... so that no defense can be mounted.

On Fri, 16 Oct 1998, Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote:
>........
> Microorganisms, it should be noted, are a very inexpensive
>  way to exterminate entire populations. Above all, many
>  microorganisms can be cheaply grown, each having its own
>  unique uses. As stressed by Carl Yaeger of Utah Valley State
>  College and Steven Fustero, IACSP Director of Operations,
>  this is a great advantage in deciding the effect wished to be
>  brought about on the section of the population at which the
>  attack is directed. Since the organisms are capable of rapid
>  reproduction, only a small amount is required to infect a very
>  large area.
>.... 
> But possibly more interesting than the large area to be
>  infected is the selectivity. With the development of biochemistry
>  and genetic engineering, it might be possible to target ethnic
>  groups .......
>..........
> Still another advantage could be secrecy and concealment.
>  Limited attacks could be carried out secretly before open
>  "hostilities" even began. As you can see, a whole new age of
>  warfare is beginning. According to an excellent PBS "Frontline"
>  documentary aired this week, the Soviet Union, even under
>  Mikhail Gorbachev, had already broken an international
>  agreement restricting chemical and biological weapons.

- Carl




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 17:38:32 +0800
To: mgraffam@idsi.net
Subject: Re: PGP utils?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199810170848.JAA18425@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




> Is there a utility for Unix (or source available?) that reads a PGP
> encrypted message and displays some information on it, like what
> key ID the message was encrypted with, and what ciphers were used?

Yes, the one I use is PGPacket by Mark Shoulson .

It used to be available at:

	ftp://ftp.ox.ac.uk/pub/crypto/pgp/utils/

It's written in perl (look for pgpacket.pl)

If the version there isn't greater than 3.0 email Mark and ask for the
latest version.  Version 3 and above can read all the pgp5 packets
also.  Really useful tool for PGP key tinkering.

Adam




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Jean-Francois Avon" 
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 00:31:43 +0800
To: "Private Liberty List" 
Subject: Fwd: AUCRYPTO: for distrib. (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810171556.LAA01453@cti06.citenet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



==================BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE==================
>From: Darren Reed 
>Message-Id: <199810160852.SAA04406@avalon.reed.wattle.id.au>
>Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 18:52:47 +1000 (EST)
>Reply-To: aucrypto@suburbia.net
>To: aucrypto@suburbia.net
>X-Mailing-List:  
>Subject: AUCRYPTO: for distrib. (fwd)

I read this today and thought it might be of general interest.

Darren

> The public key
> 
> The perception of people losing their privacy has hit the mainstream.  ABC
> News began a series on October 5th entitled Privacy Lost.
> 
> Operation Echelon, if you haven't heard of it yet you will once mainstream
> media gets a hold of it.  We began reading about this and the more
> information we found the more we began to think George Orwell worked for the
> NSA [USA National Security Agency ].  When all the details surface we
> may find that big brother really does
> exist and has for some time. The NSA reportedly worked closely with other
> security agencies to build an interception network.  This network is so vast
> that it can supposedly intercept every electronic communication on the
> planet.  The ramifications of this network existing we think will be far
> reaching and go a long way to forming online privacy policy in the future.
> 
> The NSA was also nice enough to provide us with our next topic as well.  It
> appears that up until a few years ago the NSA had a clandestine agreement
> with a Swiss cryptography company, Crypto AG.  Crypto AG also at one time
> provided most of the encryption equipment used at the diplomatic level
> around the world.  What's special about this is, the agreement allowed the
> NSA to embed key-recovery devices inside products sold to other countries.
> The NSA could read the information transmitted with these products as easily
> as reading the newspaper.  This was an ongoing process until March 1992,
> when Iranian counterintelligence agents arrested a marketing representative
> from Crypto AG on suspicion of spying.  The battle for privacy continues.
===================END FORWARDED MESSAGE===================


Jean-Francois Avon, B.Sc. Physics, Montreal, Canada
  DePompadour, Société d'Importation Ltée
     Limoges fine porcelain and french crystal
  JFA Technologies, R&D physicists & engineers
     Instrumentation & control, LabView programming
PGP keys: http://bs.mit.edu:8001/pks-toplev.html
PGP ID:C58ADD0D:529645E8205A8A5E F87CC86FAEFEF891 
PGP ID:5B51964D:152ACCBCD4A481B0 254011193237822C





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 01:53:21 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Jon Postel
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 11:32:10 -0400
Reply-To: wb8foz@nrk.com
Originator: com-priv@lists.psi.com
Sender: com-priv@lists.psi.com
Precedence: bulk
From: David Lesher 
To: Multiple recipients of list 
Subject: Jon Postel
X-Comment:  Commercialization and Privatization of the Internet

died last night....

You might want to read Vin Cerf's thoughts on David Farber's
Interesting people list......

--
A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 02:30:11 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Now *this* is funny...
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Delivered-To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
X-Sender: believer@telepath.com
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 11:06:07 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com
From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Fake Message Sends AOL E-Mail Astray
Mime-Version: 1.0
Sender: owner-ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
Precedence: list
Reply-To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  Washington Post
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/washtech/wtech001.htm

Fake Message Sends AOL E-Mail Astray

By Leslie Walker
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, October 16, 1998

A fake e-mail sent to the keeper of the Internet's global address book
yesterday erased America Online Inc.'s spot on the global computer
network, causing thousands of incoming e-mails to go to the wrong place
and preventing many people from visiting AOL's World Wide Web site.

AOL officials said all the misdirected e-mail should show up eventually in
the correct mailboxes. But the incident highlighted a security issue
involving how the central addresses known as domains are administered
on the Internet.

The incident began before 5 a.m. when someone impersonating an AOL
official sent e-mail to InterNIC, the Herndon organization that maintains
the domain name registry for the Internet, InterNIC spokesman
Christopher Clough said. The message requested the electronic address of
AOL's domain be changed.

Because AOL had chosen the lowest of three security levels possible for
making such a change, it was made automatically, with no review by any
person at Network Solutions Inc., the company that runs InterNIC,
Clough said.

The new address assigned was that of Autonet.net, an Internet service
provider. Mail meant for AOL automatically was diverted to Autonet,
overwhelming computers at the service.

In AOL's network monitoring center in Dulles, people monitoring traffic
volumes noticed a drop in the volume of e-mail coming in from the
Internet. They began investigating and found the change, AOL
spokeswoman Ann Brackbill said.

AOL rented a computer to lend to Autonet.net yesterday to reroute the
e-mail back to AOL while company officials simultaneously working with
InterNIC to correct AOL's address, Brackbill said.

AOL's actual Internet domain - AOL.com - was not changed, but the
directions the Internet uses in sending Web surfers there were changed
because of the fraudulent e-mail, so they couldn't get to the site. Instead,
error messages appeared on their screens.

"It's like if the phone book published the wrong address for AAA, and
you went there to get a map," Brackbill said. "You wouldn't be able to get
anything."

Clough said the e-mail came as a form message that was accepted
automatically because it appeared to come from the correct person and
address at AOL.com that was authorized to change AOL's InterNIC
records. Computer buffs call an incident of this kind "a spoof" - an
impersonation of someone by e-mail.

By 4:30 p.m., AOL's address had been corrected in the main Internet
address book, but it often takes hours for changes to travel throughout the
global network, Clough said.

AOL officials estimated that 12 percent to 15 percent of its e-mail was
affected Only about half of AOL's e-mail traffic comes from the Internet;
the other half is internal. In addition, 10 percent to 20 percent of the
people trying to access its Web site received error messages.

AOL officials asked InterNIC yesterday to change the security level for its
domain name records. The two higher levels available - and apparently
used by most commercial Internet operations - involve either a password
or encryption in the request for a change to the address.

Brackbill couldn't explain why AOL chose the lowest security level,
except to note that the record was created "a long time ago."

"We've never had a problem before with this and our goal is to make sure
we don't have it again," she said. AOL is cooperating with law
enforcement officials to identify the culprit.

 (c) Copyright The Washington Post Company
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------


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--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 02:26:13 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Jon Postel (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810171758.MAA01943@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 12:39:35 -0400
> From: Robert Hettinga 
> Subject: Jon Postel

> You might want to read Vin Cerf's thoughts on David Farber's
> Interesting people list......

Pray tell how?...


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Marcel Popescu" 
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 19:00:24 +0800
To: 
Subject: Off-Topic
Message-ID: <001101bdf9c0$906950a0$020101df@sorexim.ro>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Sorry for the off-topic, but does anybody know of a list related to
militias, gun-control and the like?

Thanks,
Mark





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Gillogly 
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 06:23:09 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Jon Postel
Message-ID: <36291493.3C7CC0D8@acm.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Hettinga:
>> You might want to read Vin[t] Cerf's thoughts on David Farber's
>> Interesting people list......
Choate:
> Pray tell how?...

----------forwarded from Dave Farber's IP list------------

Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 07:28:40 -0400
From: Dave Farber 
Subject: IP: Remembrance/postel

I, and others I fear, have spent a sleepless night after hearing of the death
of Jon Postel last night. This morning there was a  note in my mail box from
Vint Cerf that said many of the things I feel at this time. I asked him for
permission to send on which he granted.

I also remember Jon. I was his primary thesis advisor along with Jerry Estrin
and I remember with fond memories the months spent closely working with Jon
while his eager mind developed the ideas in back of what was a pioneering
thesis that founded the area of protocol verification.  Since I was at UC
Irvine and Jon at UCLA we used to meet in the morning prior to my ride to UCI
at a Pancake House in Santa Monica for breakfast and the hard work of
developing a thesis. I gained a great respect for Jon then and 10 pounds of
weight.

I will miss him greatly. Jon was my second Ph.D. student. The first, Philip
Merlin, also died way before his time.

Dave

________________________________________________________________________

 October 17, 1998

I REMEMBER IANA

Vint Cerf

A long time ago, in a network, far far away, a great adventure took place?

Out of the chaos of new ideas for communication, the experiments, the
tentative designs, and crucible of testing, there emerged a cornucopia of
networks. Beginning with the ARPANET, an endless stream of networks evolved,
and ultimately were interlinked to become the Internet. Someone had to keep
track of all the protocols, the identifiers, networks and addresses and
ultimately the names of all the things in the networked universe. And someone
had to keep track of all the information that erupted with volcanic force from
the intensity of the debates and discussions and endless invention that has
continued unabated for 30 years. That someone was Jonathan B. Postel, our
Internet Assigned Numbers Authority, friend, engineer, confidant, leader,
icon, and now, first of the giants to depart from our midst.

Jon, our beloved IANA, is gone. Even as I write these words I cannot quite
grasp this stark fact. We had almost lost him once before in 1991. Surely we
knew he was at risk as are we all. But he had been our rock, the foundation on
which our every web search and email was built, always there to mediate the
random dispute, to remind us when our documentation did not do justice to its
subject, to make difficult decisions with apparent ease, and to consult when
careful consideration was needed. We will survive our loss and we will
remember. He has left a monumental legacy for all Internauts to contemplate.
Steadfast service for decades, moving when others seemed paralyzed, always
finding the right course in a complex minefield of technical and sometimes
political obstacles.

Jon and I went to the same high school, Van Nuys High, in the San Fernando
Valley north of Los Angeles. But we were in different classes and I really
didn?t know him then. Our real meeting came at UCLA when we became a part of a
group of graduate students working for Prof. Leonard Kleinrock on the ARPANET
project. Steve Crocker was another of the Van Nuys crowd who was part of the
team and led the development of the first host-host protocols for the ARPANET.
When Steve invented the idea of the Request for Comments series, Jon became
the instant editor. When we needed to keep track of all the hosts and protocol
identifiers, Jon volunteered to be the Numbers Czar and later the IANA once
the Internet was in place. 

Jon was a founding member of the Internet Architecture Board and served
continuously from its founding to the present. He was the FIRST individual
member of the Internet Society I know, because he and Steve Wolff raced to see
who could fill out the application forms and make payment first and Jon won.
He served as a trustee of the Internet Society. He was the custodian of the
.US domain, a founder of the Los Nettos Internet service, and, by the way,
managed the networking research division of USC Information Sciences
Institute.

Jon loved the outdoors. I know he used to enjoy backpacking in the high
Sierras around Yosemite. Bearded and sandaled, Jon was our resident
hippie-patriarch at UCLA. He was a private person but fully capable of
engaging photon torpedoes and going to battle stations in a good engineering
argument. And he could be stubborn beyond all expectation. He could have
outwaited the Sphinx in a staring contest, I think.

Jon inspired loyalty and steadfast devotion among his friends and his
colleagues. For me, he personified the words ?selfless service.? For nearly 30
years, Jon has served us all, taken little in return, indeed sometimes
receiving abuse when he should have received our deepest appreciation. It was
particularly gratifying at the last Internet Society meeting in Geneva to see
Jon receive the Silver Medal of the International Telecommunications Union. It
is an award generally reserved for Heads of State but I can think of no one
more deserving of global recognition for his contributions. 

While it seems almost impossible to avoid feeling an enormous sense of loss,
as if a yawning gap in our networked universe had opened up and swallowed our
friend, I must tell you that I am comforted as I contemplate what Jon has
wrought. He leaves a legacy of edited documents that tell our collective
Internet story, including not only the technical but also the poetic and
whimsical as well. He completed the incorporation of a successor to his
service as IANA and leaves a lasting legacy of service to the community in
that role. His memory is rich and vibrant and will not fade from our
collective consciousness. ?What would Jon have done?? we will think, as we
wrestle in the days ahead with the problems Jon kept so well tamed for so many
years. 

There will almost surely be many memorials to Jon?s monumental service to the
Internet Community. As current chairman of the Internet Society, I pledge to
establish an award in Jon?s name to recognize long-standing service to the
community, the Jonathan B. Postel Service Award, which is awarded to Jon
posthumously as its first recipient.

If Jon were here, I am sure he would urge us not to mourn his passing but to
celebrate his life and his contributions. He would remind us that there is
still much work to be done and that we now have the responsibility and the
opportunity to do our part. I doubt that anyone could possibly duplicate his
record, but it stands as a measure of one man?s astonishing contribution to a
community he knew and loved.

----------end of forward from Dave Farber's IP list----------

-- 
	Jim Gillogly
	Hevensday, 26 Winterfilth S.R. 1998, 22:01
	12.19.5.10.19, 10 Cauac 12 Yax, Third Lord of Night




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jan Dobrucki 
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 22:57:13 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: "Annihilating less-than-useful contributors" (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199810170132.UAA00278@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <3628B55C.C805239B@kki.net.pl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



"Annihilating less-than-useful contributors"... WOW... :-() when I
first read this I though that someone was going to kick me of this
list... ;-) Then I read the article and I relaxed a little...

JD

--
Wyslano za posrednictwem bezplatnego serwera KKI
Krakowski Komercyjny Internet - http://www.kki.net.pl

To jest miejsce na reklame Twojej firmy!




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 08:53:18 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: ATTN: Does Any Listee Have Eye-Witness Report???
Message-ID: <199810180033.RAA27214@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: ATTN: Does Any Listee Have Eye-Witness Report???
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 17:04:45 -0500
To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com

---------------------
NOTE:  This is an anecdotal report, UNCONFIRMED at the present time.  If
anyone on the list is an eyewitness to this event, please report in ASAP
with additional details.  Thank you! -- Michele
---------------------

Forwarded:
---------------------

>Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 09:57:00 -0500
>From: "Shonda P. Wigington" 
>Subject: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: Helicopter Harassment
>
>
>>Freedom-Lovers International
>>Shonda P. Wigington, President
>>5308 Robinsdale Lane
>>Austin, Texas  78723
>>512-933-1950
>>
>>   OCTOBER 13, 1998--AUSTIN, TEXAS--On October 10, 1998, around noon, a
>>yellow and black helicopter flew around a South Austin neighborhood where
>>Alex Jones' mother lives.  Carol Jones reported that she did not pay
>>attention initially, but that it stayed in the area for about an hour.  She
>>observed the helicopter hovering over her property.  She said that the
>>words "Travis County" were printed on the side of the helicopter and that
>>the helicopter looked new. Someone was leaning out of the door of the
>>helicopter which she said was low enough for her to see that there was a
>>big lense camera pointed at her.
>>   When she returned into her home, she called her husband, Dr. David
>>Jones, who then called the Austin Aviation Department where he left a
>>message.  Simeon Tolgol returned the elder Mr. Jones' call the next
>>morning, explaining that the Travis County Sheriff's Department had logged
>>a four hour surveillance mission.  
>>   Around 2:00 AM that night, Alex Jones' girlfriend called Steve Lane of
>>"The Freedom Report" because of a helicopter shining spotlights into her
>>windows.  He stated to the Commissioners during Citizens Communication on
>>October 13, that the helicopter was so low that he could hear the noise
>>through the phone as he spoke to her.  She was frightened and crying.
>>   Jones' producer, Mike Hanson got film footage of the helicopter as it
>>moved over his home, shined the spotlight, turned it off, passed over, came
>>back, shined the light again several times. 
>>   "I was spotlighted by the helicopter very early saturday morning," Lane
>>said, "I believe it was about 1:30 to 2:00 am saturday morning. (The)
>>helicopter flew over, again, well under 800 feet above ground level, in
>>direct violation of the Federal Aviation Regulations, did not have a
>>spotlight on until it came to the house that I was at. The spotlight was
>>turned on, I have a video of it, and I'll be glad to give ya'll copies
>>because I would like for ya'll to look into this..."  Lane described the
>>incident as "unnerving".
>>   Mike Hanson called all of the County Commissioners for information
>>regarding the incident.  All of the Commissioners returned his call, that
>>is all accept Judge Bill Aleshire.
>>   Karen Sunleitner (Precinct 2 Commissioner) stated, "It was not the
>>Travis County Sheriff's office, it was the Austin Police Department.  The
>>Austin Police Department was piggy-backing on an existing flight that was
>>going on that particular day during the hours that Mr. Jones talked
>>about...were undergoing pilot training for the brand new helicopter.  They
>>piggy-backed on that.  They are doing ariel video footage of several
>>locations pertinent to ongoing homicide investigations."
>>   Several months ago Travis County Commissioners voted to buy the
>>helicopters at taxpayer expense, supposedly for Starflight assistance
>>during emergency situations.  But these particular helicopters were also
>>equipped with infrared "FLARE" technology that could easily be used for
>>surveillance.  
>>   The Texas Media Alliance was concerned that this technology could be
>>abused.  The different organizations that make up the Alliance voiced their
>>concerns to the commissioners, who adamently denied any such agenda for the
>>new helicopters.
>>   "They spoke to me like a child," Rusty Fields of Common Sense said, "and
>>they assured me that they would not use the helicopters for surveillance."
>>He looked around and gestured at the number of people in the room and said,
>>"This is what happens when they get caught lying."
>>   Alex Jones informed the commissioners that day that he was "conducting
>>an investigation."
>>He claims the county conducted a surveillance mission last week, denying
>>the county commissioners' claim that it was done by the city. 
>>   "You are all a pack of liars!" Jones stated, "Pure harassment. It's
>>SABER 1. You see, they passed it (the bill) under Starflight so everybody
>>can laugh and call it Starflight." Starflight being the term to use for
>>emergency pick-up missions by the local EMS.
>>Jones said he obtained the I-D of the people doing it through the Aviation
>>logues.
>>   "Flying over Alex's mothers house, I'm not buying that it was a homicide
>>investigation," said Mike Runyan, who had been there when the county
>>commissioners assured him by likening the use of the new helicopters to
>>"searching for lost children in the greenbelts."  Runyan commented that he
>>was not real happy about the video footage of the incident over Hanson's
>>house. 
>>   "Ya'll keep doing it," he warned, "and you're libel to provoke somebody.
>> It's just the natural progression of things."
>>   Mike Hanson played a tape-recorded interview of Mrs. Jones by Alex Jones
>>on his radio show, "The Real Spin," heard on KJFK 98.9FM (Austin).
>>   "I really still didn't know, or become paranoid or anything," she said,
>>"but these people made about eight passes over my place, maybe more, but
>>let's just say conservatively eight."
>>She stated that they were passing and "taking pictures."
>>   "I don't know what is more disturbing, that they would do this because,
>>like, I'm your mother," she told her son during the interview, "or that
>>they would just do it to somebody who's just sitting there, because this
>>person either has film of me or got really good pictures of just someone
>>looking straight up at him."
>>   "Are there any federal funds involved in these helicopters?" asked John
>>P. Roberts, when it came his turn to speak.
>>   "No, sir," Sunleitner stated.
>>   "There are no federal funds?" Roberts asked again, "So technically you
>>are not tied to them in any way if they want to come and 'borrow' them for
>>any reason?"
>>   "That is purchased by the taxpayers of Travis County," Sunleitner
>>assured him.
>>   Roberts closed his remarks with, "Common sense tells you you don't
>>harass the people that pay you."
>>   "The people will be informed," stated Shonda P. Wigington of
>>Freedom-Lovers International, "and if it (the harassment) doesn't stop, we
>>WILL strive for a class-action lawsuit against Travis County."
>>   During Citizens Communication that day, Darwin Mckees (Commissioner of
>>Precint 1) called in the Sheriff's Department as a result of a sit-in
>>attempt made by Free Press International's Greg Ericson in protest to the
>>three minute limit forced upon the people who came to speak that day.
>>Ericson left before the deputies arrived, and other than the Commissioners
>>trying to quieten Alex Jones's exclamations of what "liars" they are, there
>>were no other incidents.
>>  


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 08:53:30 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: One-Stop Shopping for Anti-Terrorism Aid
Message-ID: <199810180033.RAA27225@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: One-Stop Shopping for Anti-Terrorism Aid
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 17:55:09 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  Fox News - AP

Reno offers one-stop federal anti-terrorist aid
 3.37 p.m. ET (1938 GMT) October 16, 1998

 By Michael J. Sniffen, Associated Press

 WASHINGTON (AP) - Attorney General Janet Reno trumpeted a new FBI office
Friday that will offer local police, fire and rescue workers one-stop
shopping for federal training and equipment to respond to chemical,
biological or nuclear attacks by terrorists. 

 The FBI's new National Domestic Preparedness Office, staffed by officials
from a variety of federal agencies, "will assume overall responsibility for
coordinating the government's efforts to prepare America's communities for
terrorist incidents involving weapons of mass destruction,'' Reno told her
weekly news conference. 

 After an attack, "the first few minutes are very critical,'' Reno said.
Usually, the first to arrive at the chaotic and dangerous scene are local
rescue squads, firefighters and police. "For many victims, what these first
responders do in those first few minutes can mean the difference between
life and death.'' 

 State and local officials responsible for these efforts have complained in
recent years that federal aid - either training or equipment - is hard to
find and inadequate and that some federal agencies duplicate the work of
others while gaps remain. 

 The new program "is trying to address the issues that first responders
have raised and create a two-way street so that we hear from them, that we
provide one central place where they can go, knowing that they will get the
best information, both from the FBI, Department of Defense, the Department
of Energy, the Public Health Service, and that they will get the latest
information with respect to equipment,'' Reno said. 

 Under a new interagency agreement, Justice and the FBI will take over from
the Defense Department as the coordinator, funded by $49 million from the
Pentagon in the coming fiscal year. 

 The program will train state and local workers, distribute money to buy
equipment, set up joint federal-state-local practice exercises and work
with state and local officials to draft contingency plans unique to each
local situation, Reno said. "State and local governments (will be) a full
partner in the planning effort, since they know what they need there at the
front line.'' 

 The FBI has been investigating a rising number of suspected biological,
chemical or nuclear-radiological incidents - 68 in 1997 and 86 in 1998. But
Bob Blitzer, chief of the FBI's domestic terrorism unit, said, "the vast
majority of these are hoaxes.'' 

 He said the bureau believed it had averted four or five potential attacks
in the last couple years. 

 Many fire department have good hazardous materials units to deal with
chemical attacks, and for many years there has been "a pretty robust
capability to handle'' nuclear-radiological attacks, Blitzer said. 

 "The real weakness that we have right now is the ability to detect and
counter a (biological attack), because it's much more insidious and much
more difficult to detect,'' Blitzer added. "There's certainly less
protection, particularly on the medical side.'' 

                  (c) 1998 Associated Press. All rights reserved.
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------


****************************************************
To subscribe or unsubscribe, email:
     majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com
with the message:
     (un)subscribe ignition-point email@address

or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email@address
****************************************************
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 08:52:28 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: FBI Says Some U.S. Cities Vulnerable To Attack
Message-ID: <199810180033.RAA27236@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: FBI Says Some U.S. Cities Vulnerable To Attack
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 17:56:32 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  Fox News - Reuters

FBI Says Some U.S. Cities Vulnerable To Attack
            2.13 p.m. ET (1814 GMT) October 16, 1998

 WASHINGTON - Some U.S. cities are unprepared for an attack by weapons of
mass destruction with biological agents a greater danger than nuclear or
chemical weapons, an FBI official said Friday. 

 "Some American communities are very unprepared. They certainly don't have
the equipment and resources necessary to handle a major attack,'' Robert
Blitzer, chief of the FBI's domestic terrorism section, said. 

 "The real weakness that we have right now is the ability to detect and
counter a (biological weapons attack) because it's much more insidious and
much more difficult to detect,'' he said. 

 The FBI official, who was unable to give numbers on how many cities were
unprepared, said communities were better able to deal with chemical and
nuclear weapons attacks. 

 Many fire departments have units that deal with hazardous materials and
are ready to handle chemical weapons, he said. 

 "On the nuclear side, there's a pretty robust capability to handle those
kinds of issues and has been for many years,'' Blitzer said. 

 He appeared at the weekly Justice Department news conference with U.S.
Attorney General Janet Reno, who announced a new office at the FBI to help
state and local governments better respond to terrorist attacks with
weapons of mass destruction. 

 Reno said the office would help create training standards for local
police, firefighters and rescue squads and would try to make sure they have
the necessary equipment. 

 "I want this new office to be a center for assistance and solutions, not a
new bureaucracy,'' she said. "We are not interested in a top-down,
one-size-fits-all solution.'' 

                     (c) Reuters Ltd. All rights reserved
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------


****************************************************
To subscribe or unsubscribe, email:
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 08:53:22 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.49: More on The FBI's New Wiretap Authority
Message-ID: <199810180033.RAA27246@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: "ama-gi ISPI" 
Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.49: More on The FBI's New Wiretap Authority
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 00:01:14 -0700
To: 

ISPI Clips 5.49: More on The FBI's New Wiretap Authority
News & Info from the Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI)
Saturday October 17, 1998
ISPI4Privacy@ama-gi.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This From: ABC News.com, October 13, 1998
http://www.abcnews.com

Taps For Privacy?
Investigators Can Follow Suspects From Phone To Phone
http://www.abcnews.com/sections/tech/DailyNews/wirelaw981013.html

By
Chris Stamper
ABCNEWS.com

Buried deep inside the Intelligence Authorization Act of 1999 is a
provision that will change the way the FBI and other law enforcement
agencies can listen to suspects' phone calls. The new rule opens the doors
for more "roving" wiretaps, which listen to all the phones a suspect uses
rather than just a single line.

     Supporters say this will help the cops keep up with cell-phone
wielding crooks. Critics contend that it opens the door for ever more
invasions of privacy.

    The bill passed the House and Senate last week; President Clinton is
expected to sign it soon. A similar change was voted down in 1996 as part
of an anti-terrorism measure.


An Invitation to Abuse?

To bug a suspect, investigators must first obtain a court order. Current
federal wiretapping law allows multiple taps only if law enforcement can
convince a judge that a suspect is trying to avoid being overheard. The new
bill, introduced by Rep. Porter Goss (R-Fla.), requires only that
investigators show probable cause that "the person's actions could have the
effect of thwarting interception."

    Supporters maintain that such a change is necessary to keep up with
exploding technology. Suspects whose lines are tapped can easily switch to
a pay phone or cell phone and avoid detection.

    But Leslie Hagin, legislative director of the National Association of
Criminal Defense Lawyers, echoes the sentiments of many criminal defense
attorneys and civil libertarians who feel that the expansion of powers is
an invitation to abuse: "It's not a power the government needs."

    Defense attorneys such as Gregory Nicolaysen, founder of the
Association of Federal Defense Attorneys, complain that too many judges
rubber-stamp wiretapping requests and that the new law will only make that
situation worse: "The assumption is that those who are being wiretapped are
criminals anyway."

    "It's not being confined to drug dealers and organized crime,"
Nicolaysen argues. "It tends to be a knee-jerk reaction instead of an
investigative tool of last resort."


The Phones Have Ears

According to the Administrative Office of the United States Courts, federal
and state judges approved 1,186 wiretap applications in 1997 and 1,094 bugs
were planted. No requests were denied last year. Judges have rejected only
28 of over 20,000 applications since wiretapping was legalized in 1968.
Authorities arrested 3,086 people in 1997 with the help of phone taps,
which are typically placed in homes.

     The American Civil Liberties Union says that for every wiretap placed,
nearly a thousand innocent conversations are intercepted by law
enforcement. According to ACLU legislative counsel Greg Nojeim, the new
bill will mean that the phones of a suspect's friends, family and business
colleagues can all be tapped by law enforcement: "It means more wiretaps,
more lines tapped and additional thousands of intercepted innocent
conversations."

     The FBI says snoops have to ignore conversations that aren't relevant
to their investigations. "Under existing wiretap statutes," says special
agent Barry Smith, "law enforcement is only authorized to listen to those
conversations that are related to criminal activity."

     Nojeim argues that since roving wiretaps will be easier to obtain,
citizens' Fourth Amendment rights protecting against illegal searches will
erode. "When the government wants to search a place, it has to specify the
place it wants to search," he says. "Now for electronic surveillance the
specificity requirement is done away with."

    Smith says a hefty increase in roving wiretaps is unlikely, since such
an operation requires a team of surveillance experts who must coordinate
their efforts with several different phone companies: "It's still a
technological and logistical nightmare."

     Whether one believes that the new bill represents an invasion of
privacy, it seems clear that crooks won't be able to escape to their cell
phones much longer without fear of being overheard.

Copyright (c)1998 ABCNEWS

--------------------------------NOTICE:------------------------------
ISPI Clips are news & opinion articles on privacy issues from
all points of view; they are clipped from local, national and international
newspapers, journals and magazines, etc. Inclusion as an ISPI Clip
does not necessarily reflect an endorsement of the content or opinion
by ISPI. In compliance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed free without profit or payment for non-profit research
and educational purposes only.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

ISPI Clips is a FREE e-mail service from the "Institute for the Study
of Privacy Issues" (ISPI). To receive "ISPI Clips" on a regular bases
(up to 3 - 8 clips per day) send the following message  "Please
enter [Your Name] into the ISPI Clips list: [Your e-mail address]" to:
ISPIClips@ama-gi.com  .

The Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) is a small
contributor-funded organization based in Victoria, British Columbia
(Canada). ISPI operates on a not-for-profit basis, accepts no
government funding and takes a global perspective.

ISPI's mandate is to conduct & promote interdisciplinary research
into electronic, personal and  financial privacy with a view toward
helping ordinary people understand the degree of privacy they have
with respect to government, industry and each other and to likewise
inform them about techniques to enhance their privacy.

But, none of this can be accomplished without your kind and
generous financial support. If you value in the ISPI Clips service or if
you are concerned about the erosion of your privacy in general, won't
you please help us continue this important work by becoming an "ISPI
Clips Supporter" or by taking out an institute Membership?

We gratefully accept all contributions:

  Less than $60    ISPI Clips Supporter
          $60 - $99    Primary ISPI Membership (1 year)
      $100 - $300    Senior ISPI Membership (2 years)
More than $300    Executive Council Membership (life)

Your ISPI "membership" contribution entitles you to receive "The ISPI
Privacy Reporter" (our bi-monthly 12 page hard-copy newsletter in
multi-contributor format) for the duration of your membership.

For a contribution form with postal instructions please send the following
message "ISPI Contribution Form" to ISPI4Privacy@ama-gi.com .

We maintain a strict privacy policy. Any information you divulge to ISPI
is kept in strict confidence. It will not be sold, lent or given away to
any third party.











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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 08:51:38 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.50: National ID postponed until 1999
Message-ID: <199810180033.RAA27258@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: "ama-gi ISPI" 
Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.50: National ID postponed until 1999
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 00:03:08 -0700
To: 

ISPI Clips 5.50: National ID postponed until 1999
News & Info from the Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI)
Saturday October 17, 1998
ISPI4Privacy@ama-gi.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This From: WorldNetDaily, October 16, 1998
http://www.worldnetdaily.com

National ID postponed until 1999
Moratorium in appropriations bill approved by Congress this week
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/exclusiv/981016_bres_national_id_po.html


By
David M. Bresnahan
Copyright 1998, WorldNetDaily.com

Implementation of a National ID card will be automatically imposed on all
states unless Congress takes action in 1999.

More immediate efforts to impose the system, first exposed in
WorldNetDaily, were derailed by a one-year moratorium on the National ID
regulations included in the omnibus appropriations bill passed by Congress
Thursday. It was a provision that was not without controversy.

The moratorium was first included in the transportation appropriations
bill, but Rep. Lamar Smith, R-TX, convinced Speaker Newt Gingrich, R-GA, to
remove it before passage, according to House Transportation Committee
sources.

Rep. Frank Wolf, R-VA, chairman of the House Appropriations Transportation
Subcommittee included the ban in the omnibus bill, according to a committee
staff member. However, Smith continued to make efforts to kill the
provision, according to Patrick Poole of the watchdog group Free Congress
Foundation.

"It was reported that Lamar Smith had obtained an agreement from Speaker
Gingrich to eliminate this provision from the bill," reported Poole. The
ban was back in the bill "after many House members openly complained to the
speaker about Lamar Smith's seemingly religious devotion to the National ID
idea and the American people's vehement opposition to being branded and
tagged by the U.S. government."

Numerous organizations opposed to the concept of a National ID rallied
their members to send thousands of letters, faxes, and make phone calls to
Congress for the past two weeks. Smith failed to return calls to
WorldNetDaily.com, but he did publish a letter in the "Washington Times" on
Tuesday because of the many calls his office received.

"I do not support a National ID card and don't know anyone in Congress who
does," said Smith in his letter. He tried to label those voicing opposition
as radicals when he added, "There are fringe groups that believe the United
Nations is taking over Yellowstone National Park, that Congress is creating
a National ID card or that they have been abducted by UFOs."

Congress put the wheels in motion to create a National ID card in 1996 with
the passage of the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility
Act. One section of the act, which was largely unnoticed at the time,
requires all states to make their driver's licenses comply with certain
guidelines found in Section 656 (b) of the act.

The law prohibits states from issuing driver's licenses unless they comply
with the new requirements beginning Oct. 1, 2000. The new licenses must use
the Social Security number as the driver's license number, for example.

The act also calls for digitized biometric information to be a part of each
license, or "smart card." The biometric information will include
fingerprints, retina scans, DNA prints and other similar information.

Responsibility for the design and implementation of the cards has been
given to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration of the
Department of Transportation. That agency has recently published the
proposed "Driver's License/SSN/National Identification Document," which
contains the guidelines which must be in force by Oct. 1, 2000. The "Notice
of Proposed Rule Making" sets out the standards for each state to follow in
the design of "identification documents."

"These new National ID regulations violate every notion of federalism,
because they force states to comply with regulations issued by the federal
government without any constitutional authority to do so," said Poole
recently. "Nor are federal agencies empowered to force states to gather
detailed information on every person in order to comply with federal
mandates. The net result of the DOT's regulations is to establish a
National ID system, which has been opposed by almost every non-governmental
sector for the past five decades."

The moratorium is needed while efforts are made to repeal Section 656 (b)
of the act. The moratorium will relieve states from spending money on
unnecessary development costs.

House Majority Leader Dick Armey, R-TX, Rep. Ron Paul, R-TX, and Rep. Bob
Barr, R-GA, have been working on repeal legislation, but there was
insufficient time to bring it to a vote during this session of Congress.

"Speaker Gingrich did come dangerously close to selling us out on National
IDs," said a congressional staffer.

Numerous grass-roots organizations opposed to the National ID system were
celebrating the inclusion of the moratorium in the omnibus bill just passed
by Congress.

The DOT solicited public comments on their plans for implementation of
Section 656 (b) of the act earlier this year. The public comment period has
just closed and many thousands of letters in opposition were received,
according to a spokesman. Five states also expressed opposition to the
plan, and only a "small number" of letters supporting the plan were known
to the spokesman, who spoke on condition that his name would not be
published.

The American Association of Motor Vehicle Administrators also wrote to the
DOT and recommended repeal of the law, even though they had once been in
favor of such legislation.

"Over the past 10 years, the AAMVA has vigorously pushed Congress and the
various state motor vehicle directors to implement policies to require the
submission of social security numbers as a condition for issuance of
driver's licenses. This resounding defeat may spell the end of their
ill-fated quest," said Scott McDonald, a grass-roots activist who operates
the "Fight the Fingerprint" website. He is able to mobilize thousands of
activists on a national basis using his e-mail notification system.

"There is no satisfactory condition under which Social Security Numbers may
be required as a condition for travel," said McDonald. "The victory's
definitely not yet won. During these lull periods there's an opportunity
for proponents of these issues to let opposition die down and all of a
sudden, pop, it goes through without anyone even aware of it.

"I don't see how the Department of Transportation could go forth with

implementing the regulation with all that strong opposition to it. Even
five states wrote letters of strong opposition to requiring Social Security
numbers," said McDonald.

"This National ID is not just isolated to America. This is going on all
over the world. Every country has some form of it going on," explained
Jackie Juntti, leader of the Washington Grassroots E-mail Network. Her
group takes credit for defeating an earlier effort in 1997 to put
fingerprints on driver's licenses in Washington state.

"We're just people out here trying to remain free," she said. Juntti's
"NoID Orange Ribbon Campaign," found on many Internet Web sites, began
after she refused to produce a driver's license to board an airplane. She
was searched thoroughly and then granted a seat on the plane.

"For a year we're safe," said Lisa Dean of the Coalition for Constitutional
Liberties, another organization that has been actively campaigning against
the provisions of Section 656 (b). She agreed that the toughest part of her
organization's challenge is in front of her. Rep. Smith, and other
proponents of the measure have framed their issue around illegal
immigration.

Dean's organization has received many responses for and against a National
ID. Many have voiced support for her efforts, but some have told her "what
difference does it make? The government already has our information,"
according to Dean. Others also mention the need to control illegal
immigration.

Now that a moratorium is in place for a year, Dean expects repeal efforts
will also include finding alternative ways to resolve the concerns about
illegal immigrants, although no recommendations are in place as yet.

David Bresnahan, a WorldNetDaily contributing editor, hosts "Talk USA
Investigative Reports" and is the author of "Cover Up: The Art and Science
of Political Deception." His email address is David@talkusa.com.

(c) 1998 Western Journalism Center

--------------------------------NOTICE:------------------------------
ISPI Clips are news & opinion articles on privacy issues from
all points of view; they are clipped from local, national and international
newspapers, journals and magazines, etc. Inclusion as an ISPI Clip
does not necessarily reflect an endorsement of the content or opinion
by ISPI. In compliance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed free without profit or payment for non-profit research
and educational purposes only.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

ISPI Clips is a FREE e-mail service from the "Institute for the Study
of Privacy Issues" (ISPI). To receive "ISPI Clips" on a regular bases
(up to 3 - 8 clips per day) send the following message  "Please
enter [Your Name] into the ISPI Clips list: [Your e-mail address]" to:
ISPIClips@ama-gi.com  .

The Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) is a small
contributor-funded organization based in Victoria, British Columbia
(Canada). ISPI operates on a not-for-profit basis, accepts no
government funding and takes a global perspective.

ISPI's mandate is to conduct & promote interdisciplinary research
into electronic, personal and  financial privacy with a view toward
helping ordinary people understand the degree of privacy they have
with respect to government, industry and each other and to likewise
inform them about techniques to enhance their privacy.

But, none of this can be accomplished without your kind and
generous financial support. If you are concerned about the erosion
of your privacy in general, won't you please help us continue this
important work by becoming an "ISPI Supporter" or by taking out
an institute Membership?

We gratefully accept all contributions:

  Less than $60    ISPI Supporter
          $60 - $99    Primary ISPI Membership (1 year)
      $100 - $300    Senior ISPI Membership (2 years)
More than $300    Executive Council Membership (life)

Your ISPI "membership" contribution entitles you to receive "The ISPI
Privacy Reporter" (our bi-monthly 12 page hard-copy newsletter in
multi-contributor format) for the duration of your membership.

For a contribution form with postal instructions please send the following
message "ISPI Contribution Form" to ISPI4Privacy@ama-gi.com .

We maintain a strict privacy policy. Any information you divulge to ISPI
is kept in strict confidence. It will not be sold, lent or given away to
any third party.









****************************************************
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****************************************************
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 08:51:48 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.51: Your Online Profile--Where You Go, What You Buy--Is Vulnerable
Message-ID: <199810180033.RAA27269@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: "ama-gi ISPI" 
Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.51: Your Online Profile--Where You Go, What You Buy--Is Vulnerable
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 00:04:28 -0700
To: 

ISPI Clips 5.51: Your Online Profile--Where You Go, What You Buy--Is
Vulnerable
News & Info from the Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI)
Saturday October 17, 1998
ISPI4Privacy@ama-gi.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This From: TIME.com Magazine,  OCTOBER 12, 1998 VOL. 152 NO. 15
http://cgi.pathfinder.com/time/

Watch Your Tracks
Your online profile--where you go, what you buy--is vulnerable.
Here's how to protect it
http://cgi.pathfinder.com/time/magazine/1998/dom/981012/personal_time.your_
tech2a.html

By
MICHAEL KRANTZ
TIME technology writer

Run a search on your PC's hard drive for the phrase "User Profile," and
you'll find a long list of items like this: "yahoo.comTRUE/FALSE 3262463
493 Y v=1&n=82iosk148jr9n." This gibberish is just one in a series of
digital snapshots of my recent online travels: what websites I visited;
what pages I viewed and for how long; what I bought, downloaded or printed.
What's more, every site I visit can send programs called "cookies" down the
phone line into my machine to snag this data and either use it to try to
sell me something ("He spends time at E! Online? Let's spam him with that
Titanic-for-$5 offer!") or sell my "profile" to some other marketer. Yikes.

For years, of course, everyone from insurance adjusters to credit-card
companies has made money swapping consumer profiles like baseball cards.
But the Web is bringing this great American pastime to new levels of
invasive splendor. Ironically, one of the most attractive features of the
Net--its ability to customize content instantly--morphs smoothly into one
of its most sinister: the ability to monitor who you are and what you're
doing online, even as you do it.

It's not just the embarrassment factor we're talking about here: the guy
whose wife checks out his log and finds the porn sites he hit last night.
Consider how much other personal data could become available as we conduct
more and more of our lives in this (thus far) happily unregulated
world--investing and paying our bills online, filling our prescriptions,
etc.

How forthright have websites been about telling users what data they're
unwittingly providing? Not very. Last spring the Federal Trade Commission
studied 1,400 sites and found that only 14% had posted privacy statements
of any kind (though 71 of the 100 busiest sites did so).

While a Senate committee last week approved legislation that would
authorize the FTC to regulate the profiling of children, the agency seems
willing to let the industry clean up its own act with regard to adults.
Enter TRUSTe, a nonprofit group that has persuaded 270 of the Web's most
popular sites to post and abide by statements telling what data they
collect from visitors, how they use that data and how visitors can restrict
that use. Web leaders such as America Online, Microsoft and Netscape plan
an announcement this Wednesday to address privacy concerns.

Some, though, are skeptical that a voluntary system will work. "If
anybody's going to make money off your identity," says Fred Davis, chief
executive officer of the software start-up Lumeria, based in Berkeley,
Calif., "it should be you." And, of course, Fred Davis. Due in early 1999,
Lumeria's software will, among other things, help you control your data,
keeping nosy marketers from grabbing your profile unless you let them. In
fact, Davis thinks companies will eventually pay for the privilege ("Hey,
visitor No. 85834: we see you bought Titanic last week. We'll give you 500
frequent-flyer miles to tell us your name, age and income!").

For now, here's how you can keep those pesky cookies away. If you use
Microsoft's Internet Explorer, choose Internet Options under your View
menu, click the Advanced tab, scroll down to the Cookies subsection and
choose "Disable all cookie use." If you use Netscape Navigator, go to Edit
Preferences under the Edit menu and choose Advanced, then "Turn all cookies
off." But be warned: many sites won't let you in if your browser rejects
cookies, and others will harass you with dialogue boxes urging you to
accept one.


--------------------------------NOTICE:------------------------------
ISPI Clips are news & opinion articles on privacy issues from
all points of view; they are clipped from local, national and international
newspapers, journals and magazines, etc. Inclusion as an ISPI Clip
does not necessarily reflect an endorsement of the content or opinion
by ISPI. In compliance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed free without profit or payment for non-profit research
and educational purposes only.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

ISPI Clips is a FREE e-mail service from the "Institute for the Study
of Privacy Issues" (ISPI). To receive "ISPI Clips" on a regular bases
(up to 3 - 8 clips per day) send the following message  "Please
enter [Your Name] into the ISPI Clips list: [Your e-mail address]" to:
ISPIClips@ama-gi.com  .

The Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) is a small
contributor-funded organization based in Victoria, British Columbia
(Canada). ISPI operates on a not-for-profit basis, accepts no
government funding and takes a global perspective.

ISPI's mandate is to conduct & promote interdisciplinary research
into electronic, personal and  financial privacy with a view toward
helping ordinary people understand the degree of privacy they have
with respect to government, industry and each other and to likewise
inform them about techniques to enhance their privacy.

But, none of this can be accomplished without your kind and
generous financial support. If you are concerned about the erosion
of your privacy in general, won't you please help us continue this
important work by becoming an "ISPI Supporter" or by taking out
an institute Membership?

We gratefully accept all contributions:

  Less than $60    ISPI Supporter
          $60 - $99    Primary ISPI Membership (1 year)
      $100 - $300    Senior ISPI Membership (2 years)
More than $300    Executive Council Membership (life)

Your ISPI "membership" contribution entitles you to receive "The ISPI
Privacy Reporter" (our bi-monthly 12 page hard-copy newsletter in
multi-contributor format) for the duration of your membership.

For a contribution form with postal instructions please send the following
message "ISPI Contribution Form" to ISPI4Privacy@ama-gi.com .

We maintain a strict privacy policy. Any information you divulge to ISPI
is kept in strict confidence. It will not be sold, lent or given away to
any third party.








****************************************************
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 08:51:33 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: FCC To Propose Resolving Digital Wiretap Debate
Message-ID: <199810180033.RAA27280@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: FCC To Propose Resolving Digital Wiretap Debate
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 06:07:00 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Forwarded:
---------------

Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 01:37:23 -0500
From: Kepi 
Subject: FCC To Propose Resolving Digital Wiretap Debate

Source: Yahoo! News 

Friday October 16 3:00 PM EDT 

FCC To Propose Resolving Digital Wiretap Debate
By Aaron Pressman

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Federal Communications Commission next week will
propose requiring telephone companies to make a series of changes to give
law enforcement agencies additional wiretapping capabilities, people
familiar with the plan said.

The proposal, which will only be issued for comment and could be changed,
seeks to resolve the long-running dispute between the telephone industry,
privacy advocates and the FBI over terms of the 1994 Communications
Assistance for Law Enforcement Act.

The law was intended to preserve the FBI's ability to conduct wiretaps as
telephone carriers introduced new digital technology making traditional
alligator clip-and-wire approaches obsolete. But the law also sought to
maintain the existing limits on wiretapping authority that protect the
privacy of ordinary citizens.

Much to the chagrin of privacy groups, the FCC's preliminary proposal would
require wireless telephone carriers to turn over to law enforcers the
location of a mobile phone user at the beginning and end of a tapped call,
people familiar with the plan said.

``From a privacy protection perspective, the tracking question is
tremendously important,'' said Jim Dempsey, senior staff counsel at the
Center for Democracy and Technology, a nonprofit privacy group in Washington.

``Congress never would have passed this legislation if they thought they
were turning cell phones into tracking devices,'' added Dempsey, who as a
congressional staffer helped draft the law.

But, heeding the call of privacy advocates, the FCC proposal will urge
further study concerning the way digital calling information is turned over
to law enforcers.

Under current law, the police must give a judge evidence of probable cause
of criminal activity to get permission to tap a call. But to get basic
routing information, such as what numbers were called from a particular
phone, the police need show only that the information might be relevant to
an investigation, a much lower standard.

In digital calling networks, however, a call is split up into tiny data
packets that contain both the voice transmission and routing and signaling
information.

An industry proposal last year would have turned over to police entire
packets of information, including both the routing data and the actual call
itself, when just basic routing information was authorized.

The FCC proposal will seek to determine if a more limited method of handing
over just routing information would be feasible.

The FBI has already rejected as inadequate the industry proposal that
included the cell phone location and full packet disclosure provisions. The
agency asked the FCC to require carriers to add another nine capabilities,
such as the ability to continue listening to a conference call even if the
caller being tapped hangs up.

The FCC proposal recommends some but not all of the nine items should be
added to phone networks, but also asked for further comments on all nine
items.

The industry fears refitting existing equipment to add those capabilities
will cost billions of dollars. Their fears were confirmed in a recent
letter from Attorney General Janet Reno and FBI Director Louis Freeh to
Congress, dated Oct. 6, and obtained by Reuters, that conceded the costs
could reach $2 billion.

Industry participants were pleased that the FCC was moving to address the
issues, though. ``We have not seen the details yet but we're pleased the
FCC is moving forward,'' Jeff Cohen, a spokesman for the Personal
Communications Industry Association, said.

Copyright (c) 1998 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved.

http://dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/tc/story.html?s=v/nm/19981016/tc/fcc_2.
html



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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 08:53:07 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Tracking: Bar Codes/Elec.Tags for License Plates
Message-ID: <199810180033.RAA27291@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Tracking: Bar Codes/Elec.Tags for License Plates
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 11:28:20 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  London Telegraph
http://www.telegraph.co.uk:80/et?ac=000150689433551&rtmo=Vu5wFmwx&atmo=99999
999&P4_FOLLOW_ON=/98/10/17/ntag17.html&pg=/et/98/10/17/ntag17.html

Car tagging may help cut theft, says minister
 By Andrew Sparrow, Political Correspondent 

 CAR number plates could be fitted with bar codes or electronic tags in a
move to cut crime.

 Alun Michael, a Home Office minister, said it was "odd" that while
consumer goods such as whisky bottles could be tagged, valuable items like
cars were not dealt with in the same way.

 Tagging is being considered as one option that could help the Government
hit its target of reducing car crime by 30 per cent over the next five
years. Mr Michael said the Government's Vehicle Crime Reduction Action
Team, which includes ministers, police officers and car manufacturers, was
examining the practicalities of improving security features on cars.

 The Government would also improve security at car parks, where more than
30 per cent of all auto crime occurred. Cars left in car parks were 200
times more likely to be stolen or broken into than those garaged at home,
Mr Michael told an Association of Chief Police Officers car crime
conference. Yet car parks that had improved their security had seen
break-ins fall by an average of 70 per cent.

 Mr Michael said the action team would also encourage owners of older cars
to make them harder to steal. A car registered in 1985 was 14 times more
likely to be taken than a new car. Manufacturers will be urged to make
their products more theft-proof. Mr Michael said innovations that the
Government would like to see introduced as standard included toughened
glass windows to ward off opportunist thieves stealing stereos and handbags
from vehicles.

 Delegates heard that commonly quoted statistics placing Britain at the
head of the European vehicle theft league might be misleading. Elaine
Hardy, of the International Car Distribution Programme, said that while
figures showed vehicle theft in England and Wales to be roughly double the
European average as a percentage of the number of vehicles on the roads,
definitions of car theft varied enormously.

 For example, she said, in the Netherlands a vehicle was listed merely as
"missing" until it had been gone for more than a month. In other countries,
cars recovered within 90 days were wiped from the figures. The true story
could be that domestic statistics were roughly comparable to others in Europe.

(c) Copyright of Telegraph Group Limited 1998. 
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Reeza! 
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 23:19:11 +0800
To: "Marcel Popescu" 
Subject: Re: Off-Topic
In-Reply-To: <001101bdf9c0$906950a0$020101df@sorexim.ro>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981018004316.0084c100@205.83.192.13>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 01:23 PM 10/17/98 +0200, Marcel Popescu wrote:
>Sorry for the off-topic, but does anybody know of a list related to
>militias, gun-control and the like?
>
>Thanks,
>Mark
>

Sure. Try alt.gun-nut.psycho.felon.wannabe.

be sure to Cc: the IRS, NSA, FBI, CIA, NSU, ICQ and SS.

Enjoy your newfound status as 3l33t and to be f34r3d!!!

Gee, Hey Tim, perhaps you could provide directions in technicolor like you
did for the bag lady not long ago. 

Oh, BTW Mr. Popescu, Pppttthhuuuuu!!!!!!



	Fear has a scent and Money has a color,
	but Stupid walks right up and slaps you in the face,
	
	Every time.

						-- me, I think.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Bernardo B. Terrado" 
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 22:52:53 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: desperate....
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Could you give any info about wireless transmission especifically 
satellite transmission.

Thank you and I desperately need your help.












~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Some people they might say that I'm hard to get to know.
I go my own sweet way, well that maybe so.
Something about the crowd that makes me walk alone. 
I never had a need in me to be the party's life and soul.

It's me Bernie.
metaphone@altavista.net
``````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Bernardo B. Terrado" 
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 22:28:43 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: criticize....
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I am creating a program about sparse matrix

I am going to use different compression schemes used in building
compilers.

It is suppose to output a library wherein it support the compression
scheme.

It would either be used by C, Pascal, or FORTRAN whatever the user intends
to use.

Could you degrade or "upgrade" my said proposal (just say anything except
nonsense of course).

Thank you very much.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Some people they might say that I'm hard to get to know.
I go my own sweet way, well that maybe so.
Something about the crowd that makes me walk alone. 
I never had a need in me to be the party's life and soul.

It's me Bernie.
metaphone@altavista.net
``````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Bernardo B. Terrado" 
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 22:27:00 +0800
To: coderpunks@toad.com
Subject: desperate....
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




 
Could you give any info about wireless transmission especifically 
satellite transmission.
 
Thank you and I desperately need your help.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Rabid Wombat 
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 11:32:26 +0800
To: Declan McCullagh 
Subject: Re: "Microsoft is racist"
In-Reply-To: <199810192111.OAA06317@smtp.well.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Yeah, they're definately racist - they have a thing against left-handed
nocturnal diseased marsupials. They haven't donated any money to me. 
OTOH, I haven't donated any money to Howard University. 

How about you? Have you donated money to Howard University? I'll bet you've 
donated more money to Micro$oft ... Which side are you on, anyway ... ??

Since you're local to the aforementioned institution, how about looking 
into whether Howard U have any merit to their claims? Does Micro$oft display 
racist hiring practices, or other discriminatory practices, other than 
failing to donate money to a particular institution?

DisturbedKeyMonger

On Mon, 19 Oct 1998, Declan McCullagh may have cut and pasted:

> 
> 
> http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/15702.html
> 
>                      On the sidewalk in front of the building, a
>                      handful of protesters held up a sign
>                      saying "Microsoft is racist." The group
>                      attacked the company for not donating
>                      money to Howard University, which is
>                      predominately black. 
> 
> 
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Kevlar 
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 03:57:32 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: More on Postel
In-Reply-To: <36298670.B1A@att.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981018121429.008e7100@max-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Damn. Talk about a blow to the heart.

Where can I find more information about this great man and his
achievements? Has there been any memorial web sites put up? I'de be happy
to donate space on my server. Just e-mail me at god@max-web.com. Are there
any news stories worth reading on this subject?

At 11:10 PM 10/17/98 -0700, you wrote:
>Subject: IP: Remembrance/postel
>From: Dave Farber [farber@cis.upenn.edu]
>
>I, and others I fear, have spent a sleepless night after hearing of the
>death of Jon Postel last night. This morning there was a  note in my
>mail box from Vint Cerf that said many of the things I feel at this
>time. I asked him for permission to send on which he granted.
>
>I also remember Jon. I was his primary thesis advisor along with Jerry
>Estrin and I remember with fond memories the months spent closely
>working with Jon while his eager mind developed the ideas in back of
>what was a pioneering thesis that founded the area of protocol
>verification.  Since I was at UC Irvine and Jon at UCLA we used to meet
>in the morning prior to my ride to UCI at a Pancake House in Santa
>Monica for breakfast and the hard work of developing a thesis. I gained
>a great respect for Jon then and 10 pounds of weight.
>
>I will miss him greatly. Jon was my second Ph.D. student. The first,
>Philip Merlin, also died way before his time.
>
>Dave
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>
> October 17, 1998
>
>I REMEMBER IANA
>
>Vint Cerf
>
>A long time ago, in a network, far far away, a great adventure took
>place...
>
>Out of the chaos of new ideas for communication, the experiments, the
>tentative designs, and crucible of testing, there emerged a cornucopia
>of networks. Beginning with the ARPANET, an endless stream of networks
>evolved, and ultimately were interlinked to become the Internet. Someone
>had to keep track of all the protocols, the identifiers, networks and
>addresses and ultimately the names of all the things in the networked
>universe. And someone had to keep track of all the information that
>erupted with volcanic force from the intensity of the debates and
>discussions and endless invention that has continued unabated for 30
>years. That someone was Jonathan B. Postel, our Internet Assigned
>Numbers Authority, friend, engineer, confidant, leader, icon, and now,
>first of the giants to depart from our midst.
>
>Jon, our beloved IANA, is gone. Even as I write these words I cannot
>quite grasp this stark fact. We had almost lost him once before in 1991.
>Surely we knew he was at risk as are we all. But he had been our rock,
>the foundation on which our every web search and email was built, always
>there to mediate the random dispute, to remind us when our documentation
>did not do justice to its subject, to make difficult decisions with
>apparent ease, and to consult when careful consideration was needed. We
>will survive our loss and we will remember. He has left a monumental
>legacy for all Internauts to contemplate. Steadfast service for decades,
>moving when others seemed paralyzed, always finding the right course in
>a complex minefield of technical and sometimes political obstacles.
>
>Jon and I went to the same high school, Van Nuys High, in the San
>Fernando Valley north of Los Angeles. But we were in different classes
>and I really didn't know him then. Our real meeting came at UCLA when we
>became a part of a group of graduate students working for Prof. Leonard
>Kleinrock on the ARPANET project. Steve Crocker was another of the Van
>Nuys crowd who was part of the team and led the development of the first
>host-host protocols for the ARPANET. When Steve invented the idea of the
>Request for Comments series, Jon became the instant editor. When we
>needed to keep track of all the hosts and protocol identifiers, Jon
>volunteered to be the Numbers Czar and later the IANA once the Internet
>was in place. 
>
>Jon was a founding member of the Internet Architecture Board and served
>continuously from its founding to the present. He was the FIRST
>individual member of the Internet Society I know, because he and Steve
>Wolff raced to see who could fill out the application forms and make
>payment first and Jon won. He served as a trustee of the Internet
>Society. He was the custodian of the .US domain, a founder of the Los
>Nettos Internet service, and, by the way, managed the networking
>research division of USC Information Sciences Institute.
>
>Jon loved the outdoors. I know he used to enjoy backpacking in the high
>Sierras around Yosemite. Bearded and sandaled, Jon was our resident
>hippie-patriarch at UCLA. He was a private person but fully capable of
>engaging photon torpedoes and going to battle stations in a good
>engineering argument. And he could be stubborn beyond all expectation.
>He could have outwaited the Sphinx in a staring contest, I think.
>
>Jon inspired loyalty and steadfast devotion among his friends and his
>colleagues. For me, he personified the words "selfless service." For
>nearly 30 years, Jon has served us all, taken little in return, indeed
>sometimes receiving abuse when he should have received our deepest
>appreciation. It was particularly gratifying at the last Internet
>Society meeting in Geneva to see Jon receive the Silver Medal of the
>International Telecommunications Union. It is an award generally
>reserved for Heads of State but I can think of no one more deserving of
>global recognition for his contributions. 
>
>While it seems almost impossible to avoid feeling an enormous sense of
>loss, as if a yawning gap in our networked universe had opened up and
>swallowed our friend, I must tell you that I am comforted as I
>contemplate what Jon has wrought. He leaves a legacy of edited documents
>that tell our collective Internet story, including not only the
>technical but also the poetic and whimsical as well. He completed the
>incorporation of a successor to his service as IANA and leaves a lasting
>legacy of service to the community in that role. His memory is rich and
>vibrant and will not fade from our collective consciousness. "What would
>Jon have done?" we will think, as we wrestle in the days ahead with the
>problems Jon kept so well tamed for so many years. 
>
>There will almost surely be many memorials to Jon's monumental service
>to the Internet Community. As current chairman of the Internet Society,
>I pledge to establish an award in Jon's name to recognize long-standing
>service to the community, the Jonathan B. Postel Service Award, which is
>awarded to Jon posthumously as its first recipient.
>
>If Jon were here, I am sure he would urge us not to mourn his passing
>but to celebrate his life and his contributions. He would remind us that
>there is still much work to be done and that we now have the
>responsibility and the opportunity to do our part. I doubt that anyone
>could possibly duplicate his record, but it stands as a measure of one
>man's astonishing contribution to a community he knew and loved.
>
-Kevlar


Does God know Peano Algebra? Or does she not care if strong atheists
couldnt reason their way out of a trap made of Boolean presumptions?

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing, but zero knowlege is
absolutely subversive.

Overspecialization breeds in weakness. It's a slow death.

Beat your algorithms into swords, your dumb terminals into shields, and
turn virtual machines into battlefields... Let the weak say, "I am strong"
and question authority. 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 03:53:48 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: CDR Node Test (no reply)
Message-ID: <199810181944.OAA03432@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Test (no reply)


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Igor Chudov 
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 03:33:35 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: test1
Message-ID: <199810181912.PAA26798@www.video-collage.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



test1




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: steve.benjamin@juno.com (Stephen Benjamin)
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 03:49:05 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: 2 questions: Prime Numbers and DES
Message-ID: <19981018.151326.-968627.0.Steve.Benjamin@juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




1.  How can I generate 2 large prime numbers?  I doubt I could create 2,
100-digit prime numbers in my head :-)

2.  Is there an implentation of DES in perl?  I didn't see a link to one
on the export-a-sig page.  If not perl, is there one for DOS?  I'm
looking for a bare bones one, not something with tons of features
and a GUI.  A perl or dos version of the unix "des" program would be
preferable.

Thanks!

Stephen Benjamin
Steve.Benjamin@juno.com

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 10:16:18 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: 'Intelligent' computer matches mugshots w/ faces in a crowd
Message-ID: <199810190135.SAA29887@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: 'Intelligent' computer matches mugshots w/ faces in a crowd
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 08:46:25 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  Fox News - AP

'Intelligent' computer system matches mug shots with faces in a crowd
 9.22 p.m. ET (123 GMT) October 17, 1998

 LONDON (AP) - An "intelligent'' computer system that uses closed circuit
television to match faces in a crowd to mug shots of known criminals is
likely to become London's latest weapon against crime. 

 Scotland Yard and a local council have installed the $100,000 CCTV system
on a trial basis in Newham, a poor district in London's East End. 

 Newspapers reported Thursday that the computer system, called Mandrake, is
linked to 144 CCTVs in Newham's shopping centers, railway stations and car
parks and can scan up to 150 faces at a time and compare them with a
database of criminals stored on a computer at the council's headquarters. 

 If there is a match between a face in the crowd and a known criminal, the
computer alerts a monitoring team in the town hall, who in turn alert the
police. 

 Civil liberties groups said they were alarmed by the new system, but
police defended its use. 

 "The only people entered on to the system will be convicted criminals who,
through our intelligence, we believe are habitually committing crimes in
the area,'' The Daily Mail quoted police Chief Superintendent Dave Armond
as saying. "If people are not committing crime they have nothing to fear,
but if they are among the small minority who are, the message is, 'We are
watching out for you.''' 

 The newspaper reported that police initially will use the system to
concentrate on catching robbery suspects. In the future, however, it could
be used to search crowds for hooligans who stir up trouble at soccer matches. 

 CCTV's developer, Software and Systems International, says the system is
accurate enough to discern people hiding behind make-up or eye glasses. And
growing a beard won't help either, the company says. 

 Britain has 150,000 close circuit television cameras. While most Britons
appear happy the devices are being used to tackle crime, civil liberties
groups oppose both the cameras and the facial matching. 

 "The accuracy of facial mapping like this is limited. You only need a
handful of photographs of celebrities to see how different the same people
can look in different pictures,'' the Mail quoted Liz Parratt, spokeswoman
for Liberty, a civil rights group, as saying. "Even if you did have a
system which worked, it would have to be regulated very carefully to
protect people's privacy.'' 

                  (c) 1998 Associated Press. All rights reserved.
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 10:38:51 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Tracking: Plastic Passports w/Biometric Confirmation of ID
Message-ID: <199810190136.SAA29899@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Tracking: Plastic Passports w/Biometric Confirmation of ID
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 10:01:41 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  London Telegraph
http://www.telegraph.co.uk:80/et?ac=000150689433551&rtmo=0GNxrbeq&atmo=99999
999&P4_FOLLOW_ON=/98/10/18/npass18.html&pg=/et/98/10/18/npass18.html

Credit card plastic passport to be issued within two years
 By David Bamber, Home Affairs Correspondent 

 A NEW credit card size passport which can be inserted in a computer
scanner on arrival in another country will be issued to British travellers
within two years.

 Trials are expected to begin soon of the system which allows passengers to
bypass traditional immigration officials. When entering a country
travellers would insert their plastic passport in a card reader and hold
their hands to a screen to check palm prints. Both would be linked to a
database containing travellers' details. The process would take 15 seconds
and make lengthy airport queues a thing of the past. A prototype card with
a digital photograph of the holder has already been developed.

 Passport Agency officials have been in discussions with the computer giant
IBM about their Fastgate card system which has already been installed in
Bermuda, a British colony. A passport agency official said: "It looks like
a credit card and it can be swiped through Customs and allow people to
enter a country without having their traditional passport examined by an
official." He said that the new prototype had a digital hologram photograph
of the holder and other special security devices which made forging them
difficult.

 Last night a Home Office official confirmed that the credit card-style
passport is being developed. He said: "We have become involved in the early
stages of exploring the IBM Fastgate system." The official said that no
date has yet been set to issue the cards to the public or to start trials
at an airport in the Britain.

 But Home Office sources have revealed that a trial of the system is likely
to be carried out by installing it at a Government building so that tests
can be carried out to see if the security system can be breached.

 John Tincey, technology officer of the Immigration Service Union which
represents 2,000 staff who check passports in Britain, said his members had
been aware for some time of discussions about a computerised credit card
style system. He has compiled a report for his union which was submitted to
the Home Office.

 In it, he concluded: "The new technology will save on running costs,
reduce staff numbers and increase profits. Even the Home Office will be
unable to resist the financial advantages of the new technology."

 He added that because so many other countries will introduce credit card
style systems, Britain would either lose business because of retaining
lengthy checks on travellers, or alternatively loosen controls by
selectively abandoning checks to minimise delays. Last night he also warned
of possible job losses and the danger that the cards could be open to
counterfeiting or abuse.

 At Bermuda International Airport, the Fastgate cards were introduced in
May. Travellers use a touch screen to answer a few simple questions. The
computer checks the data against information held on computers and also
makes sure there are no arrest warrants out or requests to intercept the
traveller. Usually the process takes just 15 seconds.

 Ken Thornton, of IBM, said: "Governments improve security and service.
Airports improve competitiveness. And airlines and card issuers improve
customers service." There is even the prospect of electronic visas being
issued in the future, either as separate credit card style documents or
logged on a computer.

 Even when the credit card style passports are introduced, the traditional
paper passports will still be issued for some time because many countries
will take years to install the necessary technology.

(c) Copyright of Telegraph Group Limited 1998.
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------


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     majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 10:39:34 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Fwd: Evaluation of Vehicle Stopping Prototype ("Kill Switch")
Message-ID: <199810190136.SAA29909@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: Bridget973@aol.com
Subject: IP: Fwd: Evaluation of Vehicle Stopping Prototype ("Kill Switch")
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 16:38:53 EDT
To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com

(I am posting just in case this wasn't already posted to the list..Mary)


Subject:         Evaluation of Vehicle Stopping Electromagnetic Prototype
Date:             Sat, 3 Oct 1998 23:34:20 -0400
From:            Matthew Gaylor 
To:                Matthew Gaylor 




[Note from Matthew Gaylor: Several years ago on this list I mentioned that
EMP devices will soon be used to stop car chases.  Several of my
subscribers wrote in and said I must be crazy, that I lived in a science
fiction fantasy.  Oh well, the future is now.]

>From the US Justice Dept.'s  NCJRS listservs 

* Evaluation of Vehicle Stopping Electromagnetic Prototype
Devices: Phase III - Engineering Field Testing Solicitation

To curtail high-speed chases, NIJ is requesting applications
for prototype electromagnetic devices designed to stop motor
vehicles that are in motion. Approved applicants will
provide prototypes for field testing, with the hope of
proceeding to operational testing by law enforcement
agencies. The NIJ Solicitation, "Evaluation of Vehicle
Stopping Electromagnetic Prototype Devices: Phase III -
Engineering Field Testing," provides information on
application requirements and deadlines.

"Evaluation of Vehicle Stopping Electromagnetic Prototype
Devices: Phase III - Engineering Field Testing"
(Solicitation) (SL000298) is available on the NCJRS World
Wide Web site (http://www.ncjrs.org/txtfiles/sl298.txt)

**************************************************************************
Subscribe to Freematt's Alerts: Pro-Individual Rights Issues
Send a blank message to: freematt@coil.com with the words subscribe FA
on the subject line. List is private and moderated (7-30 messages per week)
Matthew Gaylor,1933 E. Dublin-Granville Rd.,#176, Columbus, OH  43229
Archived at http://www.reference.com/cgi-bin/pn/listarch?list=FA@coil.com
**************************************************************************



--
bridget973@aol.com
Black Helicopters on the Horizon:
http://members.xoom.com/bridget973


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 10:45:17 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: High-tech Anti-crime Computer Unveiled
Message-ID: <199810190136.SAA29919@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: Jan 
Subject: IP: High-tech Anti-crime Computer Unveiled
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 20:10:22 -0500
To: Ignition-Point 


The Associated Press




	LONDON --  An "intelligent" computer system that uses closed circuit
television to match faces in a crowd to mug shots of criminals is likely
to become London's latest weapon against crime.  

	Scotland Yard and a local council have installed the $100,000 CCTV
system for a trial in Newham, a poor district in London's East End.  

	Newspapers reported Thursday that the computer system, called Mandrake,
is linked to 144 CCTV's in shopping centers, railway stations and car
parks.  Mandrake can scan up to 150 faces at a time and compare them with
a database of criminal mug shots stored on a computer at council
headquarters.  

	If Mandrake makes a match between a face in the crowd and a criminal's
mug shot, the computer alerts a monitoring team in the town hall, which
alerts the police. 

 

	Civil liberties groups said they were alarmed by the new system, but
police defended its use.  


	"The only people entered on to the system will be convicted criminals
who, through our intelligence, we believe are habitually committing
crimes in the area,"  The Daily Mail quoted police Chief Superintendent
Dave Armond saying.  "If people are not committing crimes, they have
nothing to fear, but if they are among the small minority who are, the
message is, 'We are watching out for you'.  

	The newspaper reported that the police will initially use the system to
concentrate on catching robbery suspects.  However, in the future it
could be used to search crowds for hooligans who stir up trouble at
soccer matches.  

	CCTV's developer, Software and Systems International, said the system is
accurate enough to identify people hiding behind makeup or eyeglasses. 
Even growing a beard won't help, the company said.  

	Britain has 150,000 closed circuit TV cameras.  Although most Britons
are used to the devices, civil liberties groups oppose the cameras and
the facial matching.  

	"The accuracy of facial matching like this is limited.  You only need a
handful of photographs of celebrities to see how different the same
people can look in different pictures," the Mail quoted Liz Parratt,
spokeswoman for the civil rights group liberty, as saying.  "Even if you
did have a system which worked, it would have to be regulated very
carefully to protect people's privacy."



Transcribed by Ryan Wright from Sunday, Oct 18, 1998, Star Telegram, Fort
Worth Texas, Section A page 19



 ******=========================================*****

"Among the elementary measures the American Soviet government

 will adopt to further the cultural revolution are...

 [a] National Department of Education...the studies will be

 revolutionized, being cleansed of religious, patriotic, and

 other features of the bourgeois ideology. The students will

 be taught the basis of Marxian dialectical materialism,

 internationalism and the general ethics of the

 new Socialist society."

     - William Z. Foster,

       Toward Soviet America, 1932


"...Stage III...would proceed to a point where no state would

have the military power to challenge the progressively 

strengthened U.N. peace force...

The manufacture of armaments would be prohibited...

All other armaments would be destroyed..." 

    -Department of State publication number 7277



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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Steve Schear 
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 11:21:08 +0800
To: Kevlar 
Subject: Re: More on Postel
In-Reply-To: <36298670.B1A@att.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>Damn. Talk about a blow to the heart.
>
>Where can I find more information about this great man and his
>achievements? Has there been any memorial web sites put up? I'de be happy
>to donate space on my server. Just e-mail me at god@max-web.com. Are there
>any news stories worth reading on this subject?

Try http://www.sjmercury.com/breaking/headline1/045392.htm

Posted at 5:31 p.m. PDT Saturday, October 17, 1998

Net pioneer Postel dies after surgery





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Harvey Rook (Exchange)" 
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 10:52:54 +0800
To: "'cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: RE: 2 questions: Prime Numbers and DES
Message-ID: <2FBF98FC7852CF11912A0000000000010D19AD05@DINO>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Title: RE: 2 questions: Prime Numbers and DES





> From: steve.benjamin@juno.com [mailto:steve.benjamin@juno.com]
> 
> 1.  How can I generate 2 large prime numbers?  I doubt I 
> could create 2,
> 100-digit prime numbers in my head :-)
> 
For cryptographic purposes, you'll want to use a probabilistic test. Try reading through these links...


http://www.utm.edu/research/primes/proving.html and...
http://www.itl.nist.gov/div897/pubs/fip186.htm 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 09:09:57 +0800
To: jya@pipeline.com (John Young)
Subject: Re: What's up with algebra.com?
In-Reply-To: <199810182353.TAA07347@camel7.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <199810190043.TAA03178@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



As far as algebra.com is concerned, the list went down because
my upstream site just installed anti-relaying rules, and everything
going to algebra.com was rejected. Also, sendmail was not setuid
and could not create mqueue files.

I wish I could boast receiving attention from the IRS/BATF or 
whatever, but so far i has not happened.

igor


John Young wrote:
> 
> 
> What with the Feds now going after CJ for attempted
> murder of federal officials (film ad overkill!), Jeff Gordon 
> soliciting cypherpunk subscribers to flesh that fancy, 
> and one CDR operator flattered with a subpoena, it'd be 
> prudent to have a way to check on whether a CDR node 
> has been taken down or turned, and the operator hogtied 
> with the system as evidence (or forced to run a sting to 
> gather it), before a clamp's put on telling what's going on.
> 
> May be too late, too late.
> 
> Recall it's a major offense for revealing placement of a 
> wiretap, surveillance or a covert investigation -- especially 
> if you're assisting, willingly or unwillingly.
> 
> Not that one should advocate hiding what might be construed
> as evidence or exposing underbelly work that's ordered concealed. 
> Why that might be taken to be pushing a conspiracy against 
> WMD-crazed authority rather than promoting personal hygiene 
> with lots of sunshine and vigorous exercise of rights to fanciful
> imaginings of what a world would be like without minders galore.
> 
> Whistling in the dark, mind you.
> 
> Consider that there are 118,000 federal prisoners. That's a very 
> big inhospitality business, and its growing, private and feds rubbing
> hands and futures. For an overview of exactly how the chain 
> operates (in case you're planning a stay or a stock buy) gander 
> the list of its bountiful rules and regs:
> 
>    http://jya.com/bop-progstat.htm
> 
> Inmates are forbidden access to the Internet (PS 1241.02 Internet
> and the World Wide Web), however, they are encouraged to do 
> creative writing (PS 5350.07 Inmate Manuscripts), so Jim Bell,
> CJ and a few of us deserve a suite overlooking the garden of
> evil.
> 
> 
> 



	- Igor.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 08:41:48 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: What's up with algebra.com?
In-Reply-To: <199810181651.LAA00864@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <199810182353.TAA07347@camel7.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



What with the Feds now going after CJ for attempted
murder of federal officials (film ad overkill!), Jeff Gordon 
soliciting cypherpunk subscribers to flesh that fancy, 
and one CDR operator flattered with a subpoena, it'd be 
prudent to have a way to check on whether a CDR node 
has been taken down or turned, and the operator hogtied 
with the system as evidence (or forced to run a sting to 
gather it), before a clamp's put on telling what's going on.

May be too late, too late.

Recall it's a major offense for revealing placement of a 
wiretap, surveillance or a covert investigation -- especially 
if you're assisting, willingly or unwillingly.

Not that one should advocate hiding what might be construed
as evidence or exposing underbelly work that's ordered concealed. 
Why that might be taken to be pushing a conspiracy against 
WMD-crazed authority rather than promoting personal hygiene 
with lots of sunshine and vigorous exercise of rights to fanciful
imaginings of what a world would be like without minders galore.

Whistling in the dark, mind you.

Consider that there are 118,000 federal prisoners. That's a very 
big inhospitality business, and its growing, private and feds rubbing
hands and futures. For an overview of exactly how the chain 
operates (in case you're planning a stay or a stock buy) gander 
the list of its bountiful rules and regs:

   http://jya.com/bop-progstat.htm

Inmates are forbidden access to the Internet (PS 1241.02 Internet
and the World Wide Web), however, they are encouraged to do 
creative writing (PS 5350.07 Inmate Manuscripts), so Jim Bell,
CJ and a few of us deserve a suite overlooking the garden of
evil.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 09:10:03 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: What's up with algebra.com? (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810190102.UAA04158@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 19:44:37 -0400
> From: John Young 
> Subject: Re: What's up with algebra.com?

> What with the Feds now going after CJ for attempted
> murder of federal officials (film ad overkill!), Jeff Gordon 
> soliciting cypherpunk subscribers to flesh that fancy, 
> and one CDR operator flattered with a subpoena, it'd be 
> prudent to have a way to check on whether a CDR node 
> has been taken down or turned, and the operator hogtied 
> with the system as evidence (or forced to run a sting to 
> gather it), before a clamp's put on telling what's going on.

If anybody figures out a way to achieve such security I'd like to know.

As far as I know the only way to keep a box up is to be sure that there are
'works in progress' from users who are not directly involved in the
operation of the system. They are eligible for $1000/day each day they are
deprived of access without a warrant. If they are completely uninvolved it
*might* make a magistrate hesitate about generating a warrant.

As to my subpoena, it looks like I *may* have to do nothing more than sign an
affadavit saying that I didn't participate or discuss the above mentioned
issues with CJ when he was in Austin. I should know more later in the week.
I did find out that the reason they picked me was that when CJ was arrested
he happened to be carrying a copy of the post I did several months ago in
responce to a question regarding destroying floppy drives and computers
using a floppy disk. Apparently they thought I might be some sort of
mad-bomb designer or something. I have to assume that since I wasn't
arrested at the first interview they figured I was reasonably harmless
concerning assaults of the person or helping CJ in a material way.

As to there being wiretaps and permanent LEA monitors on the list, you betcha.

> May be too late, too late.

Sigh.

> Recall it's a major offense for revealing placement of a 
> wiretap, surveillance or a covert investigation -- especially 
> if you're assisting, willingly or unwillingly.

They can take SSZ down or run it themselves (hope they got somebody that
knows Linux 1.1.59 cause otherwise they won't be running it for long) but I
won't participate in entrapment. And I suspect, though I don't know, that my
arrest and lack of interaction with other users would set off flairs pretty
quickly in that case. How long it might take to percolate back to Cypherpunks
I don't have a clue.

One major aspect of all this that I have found particularly unsettling is
that I really don't have family or anybody for support. I think about the
only thing worse than imagining oneself sitting in a jail with no hope of
visitors, letters, etc. is a funeral with nobody there but the preacher.

On a related issue, I have found it somewhat amusing that all the Austin
Cpunks have scattered like a covey of quail. Only one of them even offered
to help (Muchas gracias for the lawyer referals!). I had one person call and
make sure that I knew they weren't at the meeting CJ attended. I'm seriously
considering dropping sponsorship of the local group (and I sure as hell won't
stop to help fix a flat now).

> Consider that there are 118,000 federal prisoners. That's a very 

That means there are over 900,000 state, country, and municipal prisoners
since there are over 1M in jail today. 

For a democracy that's incredibly damning. Legalize consenual crimes!


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------

ps not crypto related but if you're a science book hound, check out:

Elementary Mechanics of Fluids
H. Rouse
ISBN 0-486-63699-2 (Dover)
$11.95

Physics by example: 200 problems and solutions
WG Rees
ISBN 0-521-44975-8
$? (I bought my copy used)




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 09:12:02 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: What's up with algebra.com? (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810190106.UAA04261@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Subject: Re: What's up with algebra.com?
> Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 19:43:46 -0500 (CDT)
> From: ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home)

> As far as algebra.com is concerned, the list went down because
> my upstream site just installed anti-relaying rules, and everything
> going to algebra.com was rejected. Also, sendmail was not setuid
> and could not create mqueue files.

Hmm. Interesting. The errors I was recieving were from algebra.com and it
complained of unknown user cypherpunks.

> I wish I could boast receiving attention from the IRS/BATF or 
> whatever, but so far i has not happened.

You're welcome to mine...:)


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 10:17:05 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Tracking: Plastic Passports w/Biometric Confirmation of ID
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Delivered-To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
X-Sender: believer@telepath.com
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 10:01:41 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com
From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Tracking: Plastic Passports w/Biometric Confirmation of ID
Mime-Version: 1.0
Sender: owner-ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
Precedence: list
Reply-To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  London Telegraph
http://www.telegraph.co.uk:80/et?ac=000150689433551&rtmo=0GNxrbeq&atmo=99999
999&P4_FOLLOW_ON=/98/10/18/npass18.html&pg=/et/98/10/18/npass18.html

Credit card plastic passport to be issued within two years
 By David Bamber, Home Affairs Correspondent

 A NEW credit card size passport which can be inserted in a computer
scanner on arrival in another country will be issued to British travellers
within two years.

 Trials are expected to begin soon of the system which allows passengers to
bypass traditional immigration officials. When entering a country
travellers would insert their plastic passport in a card reader and hold
their hands to a screen to check palm prints. Both would be linked to a
database containing travellers' details. The process would take 15 seconds
and make lengthy airport queues a thing of the past. A prototype card with
a digital photograph of the holder has already been developed.

 Passport Agency officials have been in discussions with the computer giant
IBM about their Fastgate card system which has already been installed in
Bermuda, a British colony. A passport agency official said: "It looks like
a credit card and it can be swiped through Customs and allow people to
enter a country without having their traditional passport examined by an
official." He said that the new prototype had a digital hologram photograph
of the holder and other special security devices which made forging them
difficult.

 Last night a Home Office official confirmed that the credit card-style
passport is being developed. He said: "We have become involved in the early
stages of exploring the IBM Fastgate system." The official said that no
date has yet been set to issue the cards to the public or to start trials
at an airport in the Britain.

 But Home Office sources have revealed that a trial of the system is likely
to be carried out by installing it at a Government building so that tests
can be carried out to see if the security system can be breached.

 John Tincey, technology officer of the Immigration Service Union which
represents 2,000 staff who check passports in Britain, said his members had
been aware for some time of discussions about a computerised credit card
style system. He has compiled a report for his union which was submitted to
the Home Office.

 In it, he concluded: "The new technology will save on running costs,
reduce staff numbers and increase profits. Even the Home Office will be
unable to resist the financial advantages of the new technology."

 He added that because so many other countries will introduce credit card
style systems, Britain would either lose business because of retaining
lengthy checks on travellers, or alternatively loosen controls by
selectively abandoning checks to minimise delays. Last night he also warned
of possible job losses and the danger that the cards could be open to
counterfeiting or abuse.

 At Bermuda International Airport, the Fastgate cards were introduced in
May. Travellers use a touch screen to answer a few simple questions. The
computer checks the data against information held on computers and also
makes sure there are no arrest warrants out or requests to intercept the
traveller. Usually the process takes just 15 seconds.

 Ken Thornton, of IBM, said: "Governments improve security and service.
Airports improve competitiveness. And airlines and card issuers improve
customers service." There is even the prospect of electronic visas being
issued in the future, either as separate credit card style documents or
logged on a computer.

 Even when the credit card style passports are introduced, the traditional
paper passports will still be issued for some time because many countries
will take years to install the necessary technology.

(c) Copyright of Telegraph Group Limited 1998.
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------


****************************************************
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with the message:
     (un)subscribe ignition-point email@address

or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email@address
****************************************************
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--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 11:21:28 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: [FP] All IRS appeals are exhausted, SSNs required for children
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Delivered-To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
X-Sender: believer@telepath.com
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 12:25:38 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com
From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: [FP] All IRS appeals are exhausted, SSNs required for children
Mime-Version: 1.0
Sender: owner-ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
Precedence: list
Reply-To: believer@telepath.com

Forwarded:
---------------

From: "ScanThisNews" 
Subject: [FP] All IRS appeals are exhausted, SSNs required for children
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 11:20:17 -0500

======================================================================
SCAN THIS NEWS
10/18/98

Claiming children on tax returns without SSNs

The following exchange is typical with regard to claiming children as
deductions on federal tax returns. Names have been removed, but this is a
real case. Regardless of how you feel about income taxes, the point is that
the federal government no longer recognizes your children as being "yours"
unless they have a Social Security Number assigned to them.

More on the history of the requirement for children to be assigned SSNs (as
a provision under the GATT agreement) in order for them to be acknowledged
by the federal government can be found at:

http://www.networkusa.org/fingerprint/page1/fp-gatt-ssn-requirements.html

Scott

--------------------------------------------

Subject: All IRS appeals are exhausted; US District Court, next step, SSNs
for children

[Name removed]

As you may be aware, we did not supply IRS with Social Security numbers
for our dependent children, which resulted in IRS disallowing our
dependents, and we then had to pay substantially more income taxes.

We appealed, using various Biblical and legal arguments, which IRS
refused.

We then filed a 1040X, wherein we requested a refund for the extra
income tax we paid, since our dependents were disallowed and we had to
pay more money.

IRS told us that, in the explanation section, it was very important
we explain why we failed to include social security numbers for our
dependents, since our religious objections would be grounds upon which
we could sue IRS for First Amendment issues. Accordingly, in the
Explanation section, we included the following statement:

    Lack of Social Security Numbers for Children, Lines 4 & 5, 25, 28,
    & 30, particularly 30b. For religious reasons, our children do not
    have Social Security Numbers. Our legal and religious reasons are
    explained in the document in your possession titled: Appeal, dated
    25 April 1998, which should be considered part of this 1040X form.

Below is IRS' response to our 1040X. At this point, we have come to the
end of the appeal process with IRS: there are no more appeals available
via IRS. Any further action must be taken in court, whether it be Tax
Court, US District Court, or, according to the letter, US Federal Claims
Court.

Unless someone convinces us that one of the other courts would be
better, we intend to take the matter to US District Court, which, I've
been told, is in Louisiana.

As all these legal matters are entirely new to us, we encourage anyone
(who knows what they are talking about) who wishes to inform us to feel
free to contact us. We'll consider whatever advise anyone has to offer.
How do we file? Where do we file? How do we set up the law suit so we
don't ruin it for everyone in the country, as some uninformed patriots
have done on other income tax related matters? Should we file a class
action suit, since there are many others who are in the same predicament
as we are in? Is there some other form of lawsuit that we should file?

By the way, the IRS letter really does say "INDENTIFICATION NUMBER."
The root of "indentification" would be indent- plus the ending
-ification. The word in English closest to indent- is indenture, as in
indentured servant, which is someone who, by some instrument (in this
case, a SSN), makes themselves the servant of someone else
for a period of time, as stated in the instrument (in the case of the
SSN, forever).

Then again, "indemnification," as in "indemnify," (to secure against
loss) is also close to "INDENTIFICATION." Maybe they are offering us an
indemification number, because if we have it, they will leave us alone, and
will no longer harm us financially.


IRS letter follows:

-------------------------------
Department of the Treasury
Internal Revenue Service
In reply refer to: ............
AUSTIN, TX 73301 Aug. 25, 1998 LTR 105C

[name removed]

CERTIFIED MAIL

Taxpayer Identification Number: 666......
Kind of Tax: INCOME
Amount of Claim(s): $ 1,148.00

Date Claim(s) Received: Aug. 03, 1998
Tax Period(s): Dec. 31, 1996


Dear Taxpayer:

This letter is your legal notice that we have disallowed your
claim(s). We can't allow your claim(s) for refund or credit for the
period(s) shown above for the reason(s) listed below.

PER SECTION 151(e) STATES THAT EACH DEPENDENT MUST HAVE A
INDENTIFICATION NUMBER IF THEY ARE BEING CLAIMED AS A DEPENDENT ON THE
TAX RETURN. SECTION 152(e) HAS BEEN CORRECTLY APPLIED

If you want to sue to recover tax, penalties, or other amounts, you
may file a lawsuit with the United States District Court having
jurisdiction or with the United States Court of Federal Claims.
These courts are independent bodies and have no connection with the
Internal Revenue Service.

The law permits you to do this within 2 years from the mailing date
of this letter. If you decide to appeal our decision first, the
2-year period still begins from the mailing date of this letter.
However, if you signed an agreement that waived your right to the
notice of disallowance (Form 2297), the period for filing a lawsuit
began on the date you filed the waiver.

If you have any questions, please call us. You may call
............ between the hours of 8:00 A.M. and
5:00 P.M. at ............ for assistance. If the number is
outside your local calling area, there will be a long-distance
charge to you. If you prefer, you may call the IRS telephone
number listed in your local directory or (1-800-829-1040). An
employee there may be able to help you, but the office at the
address shown on this letter is most familiar with your case.


If you prefer, you may write to us at the address shown at the top
of the first page of this letter.

Whenever you write, please include this letter and, in the spaces
below, give us your telephone number with the hours we can reach you.
Also, you may want to keep a copy of this letter for your records.

Telephone Number (   )______________________ Hours_____________


Sincerely yours,

...............
District Director

Enclosure(s):
Publication 1


=======================================================================
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1) you can confirm it with another source, and/or
2) it is consistent with what you already know to be true.
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--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Maria Cantwell 
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 14:36:40 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: RealPlayer G2 Full Beta Release *Now Available*
Message-ID: <199810190558.WAA05351@dmail5.real-net.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Dear RealPlayer Customer,

At RealNetworks, we take pride in continually 
improving our RealPlayer products for you.  We 
think you'll find that our latest RealPlayer 
release, RealPlayer G2 full beta, is a significant 
improvement over earlier versions.

With RealPlayer G2 full beta, you'll notice dramatic 
quality enhancements in RealVideo with the 
introduction of RealVideo G2.  RealVideo G2, which 
uses technology from Intel, delivers smoother video 
with higher frame rates.

There's more. Read on, or download now:

==> http://www.real.com/products/player/fullbeta20.html

Aside from being even more reliable than RealPlayer
G2 Beta 1, the major improvements in RealPlayer G2 
full beta are:

*  The new RealVideo G2 offers smoother and more 
   life-like video with technology from Intel
*  SureStream delivers a reliable, continuous 
   streaming media experience without rebuffering 
   or breakups.  SureStream now supports live 
   broadcasts.
*  More programming, more choices with RealChannels 
   and presets - just one click away
*  For high-bandwidth users, RealAudio is now 
   CD-quality.

With all these exciting new features you have to 
experience the excitement yourself.  Download now, 
watch some great new content, and ENJOY!

==> http://www.real.com/products/player/fullbeta21.html

Thank you for continuing to use RealNetworks 
products,

Maria Cantwell
Senior Vice President
RealNetworks, Inc.
Seattle, WA  USA

---------------------------------------------

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: jacket9@primenet.com (jacket9@primenet.com)
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 16:38:33 +0800
To: ja@primenet.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199810190810.BAA05650@smtp01.primenet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Are you a skeptic when it comes to health and well being
products that claim they can do everything they say they can? Well I am and
I did
not believe this product worked until I tried it out on myself and found out
that it really does work.  Do you suffer from discomfort of any kind? 
Are you looking for something that can relieve that discomfort?  Well
this product may be the answer!  My name is Tony and I am promoting a product
that is beginning its introduction in the United States from a company
in Japan which involves the use of special magnets for wellness therapy. 
You may have seen other companies claiming that magnets help reduce
discomfort from anything from headaches to cramps to sore muscles but their
magnets are not nearly as effective as they should be because of the way they
were designed. This is where I come in, I am promoting a company whose magnets
are specially designed to stimulate all the nerve endings in your
body by the special diamond design that is patented by only one company in
the world.  Other magnets have the north and south poles (where the magnetic
power is held) in a standard straight up and down design but the magnets
I promote have the patented diamond design where the poles do not run up
and down but are angled in all directions in order to stimulate each nerve
ending.  Since our bodies are not designed where our nerve endings are up
and down we need something that will be able to cover us in all directions. 
These special magnets have been tested on people with many different
kinds of discomfort ranging from anywhere to a simple minor headache to
muscle cramps, heartburn, aching backs, tired feet, bruises, cuts,
indigestion, physical discomfort from stress, even dental plaque!  All the
test subjects showed moderate to complete recovery from these and many other
discomforts they suffered.  These magnets not only ease your discomfort but
they also provide you with a little extra strength and energy when you
need it the most.  Even if you just bumped your head or have suffered from
chronic discomfort from something for years this product will help ease
it as long as you keep it on your body.  In some people they got results in
a matter of minutes from slight discomfort but for patients who have been
suffering the results may take a few days to notice a difference.  This does
work on anyone in any age group from small children to senior citizens,
however, pregnant women and anyone with heart devices should not use this
product.  People who have had surgery done who have had any kind of metal
or plastic can use this product also!  To find out more please reply to me,
Tony, and ask me about these magnets.  I can tell you that any other magnet
you buy at a cheap discount price ie $18 for a whole set  that they do not
work because of the north and south magnetic poles are being up and down.
This company has a patented design where the north and south poles run in
every direction stimulating each nerve ending in our body.  I can tell you
that this product really works and for just $18 I can send you a magnet that
will help relieve just about any minor physical discomfort you suffer from.
I also have a long line of other products that use these patented magnets
such as: shoe inserts that will help soothe tired and sore feet but will
also soothe your body all the way up your legs, wrist bands, ankle bands,
knee bands that have the magnets throughout the entire band, a belt, even a
gold or pearl necklace with the magnets built in!  PLease reply if you are
interested or would like further information.

Thank you





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Soren 
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 07:35:35 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Year 2000 opportunity?
Message-ID: <362B1FD3.3F4DA05B@workmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/html




 
http://www.LibertySoft.com/liberty/features/58bradford1.html
 



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "christian masson" 
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 23:42:02 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <19981019145116.12414.qmail@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



SUBJECT: EU-USA ECHELON
TO:      OMEGA FOUNDATION + European Parliament (civil liberties,...)         
DT:      9/19/98        



Ref.: 
Mr Steve Right 
OMEGA FOUNDATION
Author of:  
http://www.europarl.eu.int/dg4/stoa/en/publi/166499/execsum.htm 

I/
Section 2.3, you said: " Modern snoopers can buy specially adapted lap 
top computers, and simply tune in to all the mobile phones active in the 
area by cursoring down to their number. The machine will even search for 
numbers 'of interest' to see if they are active." 
Actually, only a public logger:
http://www.rsd.de/PRODUKT/22da.htm
is able to catch IMSIs and intercept called-calling parties.
Do you know the model that you mentionned?  


II/ 
No a word about 100 Millions GSM mapped&traced. Why?
GSM Trace Scandal exposed:
http://jya.com/gsm-scandal.htm


III/
Latest GSM EUser Traking Table:
http://www.ii-mel.com/interception/mobile_tracegb.htm

IV/ European Electronic Surveillance:
http://www.ii-mel.com/interception

Congratulations, except GSM-trace, for your objectivity.

Regards,  
  

Christian Masson 
La Ferme 
Ch.Pierrefleur 74 
Pobox505 
CH- 1000 Lausanne 17
_______________________

interception@ii-mel.com
_______________________

GSM TRACE PROTEST PETITION ON CYBERCRATE (belgium parlement)
http://www.axismundi.org/Cf/laurus/cybercrate/belgium/fr/actions.htm

______________________________________________________



______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 03:46:37 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: RE: IP: Fwd: Evaluation of Vehicle Stopping Prototype ("Kill Switch")
Message-ID: <362B8D7F.888@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> [Note from Matthew Gaylor: Several years ago on this list I mentioned
> that EMP devices will soon be used to stop car chases.  Several of my
> subscribers wrote in and said I must be crazy, that I lived in a 
> science fiction fantasy.  Oh well, the future is now.]

These ideas have been around for more than a few years. In the past year
or so I've seen two systems on Discovery Channel. One was a flat strip
that was unrolled across the road and generated some ESD when the car
crossed it. The other one was a cockamamie toy rocket car that would be
deployed by the pursuing car and run under the pursued. They say it
shows promise.

These things are fine. It would probably require small effort to devise
effective CM. The project solicitation is pretty nasty however: they
very casually talk about high energy RF. I would say pointing that crap
at anyone would come under "reckless endangerment". 

I miss the days of mechanical ignition points and carbureters!

BTW - Did you see the bullshit that happened up in Vallejo? Cops sent a
dog into a culvert after a suspect. The suspect shot and killed the dog.
The police had a full-fledged funeral, casket and all for the fucking
dog. Flowers all over he place, mourners. Now they're buying goddamned
kevlar vests for their dogs. Fuckheads. Who's the citizen? The human or
the dog?

As for the suspect he's charged with something for killing the dog.
Simple destruction of property, which would be a charge befitting the
act, is probably not enough to avenge beloved Bowser's death. Because
it's a cop-dog-on-duty the penalty is probably more than restitution and
some community service. Jail time for defending yourself against an
attack dog?

I think maybe our society is suffering from a form of mass insanity
induced by the fucking television programming. LE seem to think they're
John Wayne or Steven Segal. They actually believe the brain-dead, binary
morality of pop fiction. Us vs Them, Good-guys vs. Bad-guys, Human vs.
Non-human. The lack of perspective is mind-blowing.

Mike




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 01:51:36 +0800
To: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home)
Subject: Re: What's up with algebra.com?
In-Reply-To: <199810190043.TAA03178@manifold.algebra.com>
Message-ID: <199810191722.MAA008.39@geiger.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In <199810190043.TAA03178@manifold.algebra.com>, on 10/18/98 
   at 07:43 PM, ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home) said:

>As far as algebra.com is concerned, the list went down because my
>upstream site just installed anti-relaying rules, and everything going to
>algebra.com was rejected. Also, sendmail was not setuid and could not
>create mqueue files.

>I wish I could boast receiving attention from the IRS/BATF or  whatever,
>but so far i has not happened.

What is with these fascist ISP who think they have a *right* to regulate
the data stream of others? What's next, are they going to start blocking
domains because they don't like what is on a web page, or because they
don't like an e-mail message someone posts??

Don't have to worry about government censorship there are plenty of
civilians that are willing to do the work for them. :(

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: "640K ought to be enough for anybody." - Bill Gates, 1981

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 01:58:29 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: dbts: The Economic Cause of Privacy
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Mime-Version: 1.0
X-Sender: rah@pop.sneaker.net
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 11:20:38 -0400
To: dbs@philodox.com
From: Robert Hettinga 
Subject: dbts: The Economic Cause of Privacy
Sender: 
Precedence: Bulk
List-Subscribe: 
X-Web-Archive: http://www.philodox.com/dbs-archive/

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 7:45 AM -0400 on 10/19/98, Anonymous forwarded this to the dbs list:

> see http://www.zolatimes.com/V2.23/anonymittext.html

It's just another financial privacy rant, though a relatively decent one. It's
from J. Orlin Grabbe, who was at FC98, BTW. When I met him at S&PBank's party
at Cap Julaca, he seemed like a nice, though fairly intense, guy. Financial
privacy *makes* you intense, I suppose.

Nonetheless, like all financial privacy rants, Orlin's reverses cause and
effect, but it's not really his fault.


Remember, the reason we have no financial privacy these days is because we
have book-entry settlement, which relies on biometric identity, known physical
location, and the force of a nation state as the ultimate "error-handler" to
prevent repudiation in the transaction protocol.

The reason we have book-entry settlement itself is because it is several
orders of magnitude cheaper than physical delivery of paper bearer
certificates.


The *only* way to have financial privacy in a book-entry world is to engage in
the financial equivalent of steganography, which, no matter how financially
and legally facile -- even elegant -- it is, at the margin it costs more to
hide money than not to. It will always cost more in a book-entry economy, and
for structural reasons.

Worse, most of these accounting and legal gyrations are just plain old
security by obscurity, something most crypto-clueful people learn, fairly
early on, to treat with the utmost scorn and derision.


If my hypothesis is right, and digital bearer settlement is significantly
cheaper than book-entry settlement, say three orders of magnitude cheaper,
then financial privacy will be the default state of affairs sooner or later.
It will actually cost *more* to keep transaction records and the physical
location of economic actors than not to. No amount of physical force, much
less law, accounting, or "policy", will change that physical, economic, fact.
A fact which every economic actor, from the smallest proprietor to the largest
nation state, will end up ignoring at their peril.

The reason digital bearer settlement will be faster, and thus cheaper, is
because the cryptographic protocol breaks before the transaction can. Unlike a
book entry protocol, where you can execute a trade and then renege on it
later, causing bounced checks, charge-backs, broken trades, DKs and the like,
software using a digital bearer protocol can execute *only* if both parties
cannot renege on the transaction in the first place.

One of the best guarantors of that inability to renege is, paradoxically,
cryptographically certain anonymity. Immediate and final clearing and
settlement means that you tend not to care who you've done business with in
the first place, but cryptographic anonymity not only makes the transaction
stronger and safer, it is the very enabling technology of the process, the
thing which makes digital bearer transaction settlement the fastest, and,
systemically, the cheapest transaction technology to use.

Again, it's just like air travel. You can go very fast on land, much faster
than it takes to fly even without wings, as sound-barrier-breaking speed
records show us. But, the physical, economic fact is, people can travel the
fastest and cheapest over the longest distances when they fly, so that's what
they do. They don't fly just because the view's nicer, or, as I've joked
before, "to slip the surly bounds of earth".

And, most important, this economic reality, that economics ultimately
determines a technology's use, is true no matter what the intent is of any
airplane -- or bearer protocol -- designer.


The cost of anything is the foregone alternative. One of costs of book-entry
settlement is privacy, surely, but in a world of strong financial cryptography
and ubiquitous geodesic networks, the primary cost of book-entry settlement is
wasted time and computing resources. Costs which will eventually force the
adoption of digital bearer transaction settlement, giving us ubiquitous
financial privacy -- and freedom -- as a result.

Effects of our technology, in other words. Not its cause.

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga



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-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Watts 
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 04:29:25 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: EU Privacy Directive
Message-ID: <19981019195132.27759.rocketmail@send1e.yahoomail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Deadline for EU Data Privacy Law
Prompts Worry Among Businesses
By JENNIFER L. SCHENKER and JULIE WOLF 
Special to THE WALL STREET JOURNAL


The mounds of data that zap electronically across borders may face
some travel restrictions as a European Union law takes effect this
week. Three years of talks between the EU and the U.S. have failed to
find a compromise on how to protect the privacy of data, and that has
businesses and consumer groups worried.

The issue arose in 1995, when Citibank Deutschland AG came under
attack for a co-branded credit-card program with Deutsche Bahn AG. The
program, Germany's data police decided, invaded the privacy of
citizens because the sign-up questionnaire was too nosy and the data
was processed in the U.S. The bank made headlines by offering to allow
Germany's data police to come to the U.S. to inspect its
data-processing arrangements.

Citibank solved its problems in Germany, but the European Commission
reasoned national data regulators couldn't possibly travel to the U.S.
to verify the compliance of all of the companies in Europe that send
personal data abroad for processing. Instead, the commission passed a
law that gave national data regulators wide powers to control what
type of data can be processed abroad and let them halt exports of
personal data to countries that don't have adequate protection, such
as the U.S. EU member states were given three years to institute
necessary changes.

Intensified Negotiations

Businesses panicked at the prospect of having data flows cut off,
databases erased and huge fines levied. Negotiations intensified
between Europe and the U.S., which planned to ensure data protection
mainly through industry self-regulation.

Three years later, just days before the deadline, a solution has yet
to be found, and Citibank and other multinationals doing business in
Europe are back in the headlines again, the targets of privacy
advocates who want to inspect transborder data flows. At issue is how
U.S. companies operating in Europe can send data back to the U.S.
without running afoul of strict new EU legislation on data protection.
The issue won't be settled before the legislation goes into effect
Oct. 25 although U.S. and EU officials say they are hopeful enough
progress has been made to ensure that companies won't see their data
flows interrupted on Oct. 26.

"The message to business should be don't panic," advised Francis
Aldhouse, deputy data-protection registrar at the U.K.'s office of
data protection. "Nothing great and dramatic" is going to happen this
week when the directive goes into force, he said.

Threat of Legal Action

But uncertainty abounds, and big companies in Europe are worried they
could face legal action from a variety of quarters, including Privacy
International, a Washington, D.C.-based watchdog group that plans to
increase its activities in Europe.

"This is not a deal that can be cut between the White House and
Brussels," said Simon Davies, Privacy International's director. "The
data-protection directive establishes new constitutional rights in
Europe and gives us a mandate to move forward."

Between now and Jan. 15, Privacy International will meet with 25
multinational corporations and government agencies it has identified.
The group wants to examine data flows through available public records
to determine whether these companies are in compliance with the new
laws.

At the moment all personal data gathered from European clients that is
processed outside the EU is suspect. Hong Kong, Quebec and New Zealand
are the exceptions because they have received the commission's stamp
of approval for providing adequate protection. Only three EU countries
are expected to meet the commission's Oct. 25 deadline for
implementing the data-protection directive -- Italy, Greece and Finland.

"Business can not live with such uncertainty," said Mark Loliver,
legal adviser to the European Federation of Direct Marketing.

Possible Solutions

Solutions on the table include:

1. Setting up safe harbors, a compromise that would allow U.S.
companies operating in Europe to ship data back to the U.S. even
though the U.S. itself won't get the European Commission's stamp of
approval for adequate protection. The U.S. Commerce Department would
issue principles on data privacy, and companies agreeing to abide by
these would be allowed to transfer data from Europe to the U.S.
 
2. Drawing up model contracts between companies operating in Europe
and those that process data overseas. The foreign companies would have
to commit to meeting Europe's data privacy standards. 

3. Implementing new software solutions that are designed to allow
companies that handle personal information about consumers to meet
privacy requirements. 

Both the U.S. and EU have shifted considerably from their original
positions. The commission is no longer insisting that the U.S. adopt
national data-protection legislation. And the U.S. now concedes that
consumers should be able to complain to an independent group about a
company's behavior.

The commission will have to get the support of member states for any
compromise at two meetings this month, the first of which will be held
Monday.

Model Contract

Meanwhile the International Chamber of Commerce, British Federation of
Business and a number of other organizations are jointly working on a
model contract that could be drawn up between a company operating in
Europe and the company which processes data for it abroad, said Colin
Fricker, director of legal affairs at the U.K.'s Direct Marketing
Association and a member of the model contract working party of the
Confederation of British Industry.

Separately, some companies hope to tackle the problem with
technological solutions. NCR Inc., a Dayton, Ohio, data-warehousing
specialist said that beginning in January it will build in new
software features that will allow the auditing of computer databases
to ensure compliance with government data privacy regulations. Its
clients include financial institutions and retailers.

For its part, Privacy International says neither model contracts or
technological solutions offer adequate protection. "Companies in the
U.S. continue to maintain that industry code of practice and
privacy-enhancing technology afford protection and it does not -- it
is a very tiny step in the right direction," said Privacy
International's Mr. Davies. "The message we want to give the U.S. is
why are you following an outdated libertarian philosophy when you know
it is going to cost you dearly."





_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Fisher Mark 
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 03:22:02 +0800
To: "'cypherpunks@cyberpass.net>
Subject: RE: 2 questions: Prime Numbers and DES
Message-ID: <2C396693FBDED111AEF60000F84104A721C02B@indyexch_fddi.indy.tce.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>2.  Is there an implentation of DES in perl?  I didn't see a link to one
>on the export-a-sig page.  If not perl, is there one for DOS?  I'm
>looking for a bare bones one, not something with tons of features
>and a GUI.  A perl or dos version of the unix "des" program would be
>preferable.

CPAN (the Comprehensive Perl Archive Network),
, is your friend -- use it.  (Look under
"Authentication, Security and Encryption" -- there are 3 versions of DES
listed, along with an interface to SSLeay, which includes DES as one of its
algorithms).
==========================================================
Mark Leighton Fisher          Thomson Consumer Electronics
fisherm@indy.tce.com          Indianapolis, IN
"Their walls are built of cannon balls, their motto is
'Don't Tread on Me'"






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adobe Systems 
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 06:24:45 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Your New Adobe Customer Number
Message-ID: <199810192141.OAA02380@mail-sea.sea.Adobe.COM>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Thank you for registering with Adobe Systems, Inc. 

Your new Online Customer ID is: 2202094119525317

The PIN you entered and confirmed has been encrypted and stored with your
registration information.

Please remember your Customer ID and PIN for the next time you login as an
Adobe Customer on www.adobe.com.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Alexander Kjeldaas 
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 21:55:12 +0800
To: HyperReal-Anon 
Message-ID: <19981019150728.A19456@lucifer.guardian.no>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Fri, Oct 16, 1998 at 01:30:06PM -0000, HyperReal-Anon wrote:
> 
> Apologies for the interruption,
> 
> I'm looking for disk / partition encryption for Unix-alikes, especially
> Linux, OpenBSD and/or NetBSD.
> 
> My websearch has been less than satisfactory - I found outdated Linux
> kernel patches for encryption loopback, and I distinctly remember reading
> about a serious bug in the use (or lack thereof) of key material in this
> code.
> 
> Do patches for a current Linux kernel exist, and have all the known
> bugs been fixed?
> 

I have collected the available loop-crypto patches in the
international kernel patch.  It contains blowfish,twofish,serpent, and
cast-128 modules (and an idea module which I haven't ported yet).  The
loopback modules have been updated to work with the latest loopback
patches.  I plan on adding other AES candidates - I have free
implementations of rc6, rijndael, mars, and dfc.  The patch is
available from:

ftp://ftp.kerneli.org/pub/linux/kerneli/v2.1/patch-int-2.1.125.2.gz

I have a collection of utilities you'll need and other 2.0-crypto
stuff mirrored at:

ftp://ftp.kerneli.org/pub/linux/kerneli/net-source/

astor

-- 
 Alexander Kjeldaas, Guardian Networks AS, Trondheim, Norway
 http://www.guardian.no/




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: tzeruch@ceddec.com
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 12:31:15 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: Another potential flaw in current economic theory...
In-Reply-To: <199810061317.IAA07423@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <98Oct19.235259edt.42154@brickwall.ceddec.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Tue, 6 Oct 1998, Jim Choate wrote:

> It occurs to me that there is another potential flaw in current economic
> theory and business practice.
> 
> Currently (ala Friedmann) the parties that reap the benefit of a succesful
> business are the shareholders, this is currently seen to exclude the
> employees in many cases/companies.
> 
> This approach undervalues the business worth of the employees commitment to
> the business.

Not labor any more than capital.  I think what you refer to is often
called "stakeholders" which includes suppliers and customers in addition
to employees. 

However you do not need to play games to justify proper treatment of
employees.  If you consider capital such as a machine, it is usually
better to keep it well maintained and in good repair instead of letting it
wear out and rust - the quality of your goods will suffer, profits will go
down, and shareholders will dump management.

The same applies for labor.  If you treat employees badly, and they are in
a free labor market, you will be left with those who will tolerate your
abuse, or ignore it.  These are likely to be as less productive as the
rusty machine.

And employees usually create mental capital.  Except for the most menial
tasks, they will know who to call and how to get some otherwise trivial
things done much more efficiently than someone new.  And they will be able
to identify ways to make their niche more efficient for little extra cost
(v.s. having a bunch of consultants go through to obtain the same
information).  Lose a long term employee and you have lost a lot of
knowledge which you will pay dearly to replace.  High turnover is bad for
almost every business.  Maltreatment is universally bad.

Our current stock market bubble - which is in the process of popping -
distorted this.  My concept of Usury (yes, another mideval or earlier
idea) is loaning in the abstract.  You just want 5% or 10%, and try to
find a piece of paper (or electronic book entry) that will return it
regardless of what is behind the paper.  This can include ponzi schemes if
they aren't recognized as such.

If people were really investing in the non-usurous sense, they would be
concerned with the company as an organic whole, with the suppliers, and
customers, and employees, and the physical plant and everything else,
since the overall health would have a direct impact on the return on their
investment - and this would typically give a dividend yield a few percent
above something like a 10yr treasury.

If I want milk, I will be very concerned with keeping the cow happy and
healthy, and doing so rationally - pampering the cow too much won't give
any more milk and maybe make the cow less healthy, but starving it or
beating it would be worse.

But now people own mutual funds, and probably don't know what positions
they are in today.  They simply assume it will go up 10% "over the long
term" regardless if they invest in CocaCola, RJR Nabisco, Yahoo, or GE, so
why bother checking what is behind the stock certificate - if they miss
their earnings, the fund manager will simply swap it for something else
not based on the company or employees, but just on a few abstract numbers 
reported each quarter.

I like Yahoo and Amazon, but can't concieve of any logic to their market
capitalization.  They would have to grow at double digit rates to long
past my retirement to return to a rational valuation (assuming the stock
price didn't go up further).  I haven't heard a reason connected with
something tangible (dividends, book-value, cash flow) for someone to own
such a stock.  Only that "it the internet".  And I think this decoupling
is at the center of what you are getting at.  Paper v.s. people, and when
it comes time to decide, the paper wins.

There is a lot of ignorance, and it is rational in the short term - these
stocks are going up, so it would otherwise make sense to follow the trend.
But if the trend is all that is being watched, who is going to care if
they are using slave-labor? - to mention just one issue.

But that is investing in a bubble.  The same thing happened in 1720 with
the South Seas company in Great Britian and the Mississippi Scheme in
France.  The paper was appreciating daily, and that is all that mattered. 
Until the paper became illiquid.  Then it mattered very much if the
businesses were intrinsically sound and healthy and correctly valued. 

And I think we will see the same thing here and across the globe shortly.
Japan started to see this in the early '90s.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: tzeruch@ceddec.com
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 12:42:50 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: Another question about free-markets... (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199810051237.HAA03149@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <98Oct19.235259edt.42143@brickwall.ceddec.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Mon, 5 Oct 1998, Jim Choate wrote:

> > > If this includes lying, denying consumers information, etc.
> > > what harm is done, they have fulfilled their responsibility
> > > to their shareholders (potentialy quite lucratively)=20
> > 
> > While there is a sucker born every minute, the strategy you
> > describe is for the most part unlikely to be profitable.
> 
> Then you should begin to check your daily news, example after example is
> presented. (currently illegal) cell phone cloning, excessive rate levels,
> sub-standard construction practices, etc.

Most of these are due to regulation.  If you assume the Secret Service
will bear the cost of enforcing anti-cloning laws, you will not spend the
money to make your phones unclonable even if the technology exists.

Excessive rate levels are a misnomer.  The only way you can succeed in
charging above market prices is if there is a law to bar entry.

sub-standard construction is also a misnomer - if you paid for standard X,
you simply don't pay until the construction is up to that standard.  If
you are talking about government projects, you introduce some distortion,
e.g. where they demand to pay below-market prices.  Further, if you don't
want to pay for certification of the quality, you can't call it
"substandard" because you aren't paying to have a standard enforced.

> Not only can it happen it deos. Given that such abuse is possible in a
> regulated market there is no reason not to deduce it will happen in a free
> market economy as well. If it happens the business enjoys an increased profit
> if for no other reason than their costs are reduced. Since there is no
> regulation or other oversight the consumer will be denied this information
> preventing fair competition. Since a companies strategic leaders have no
> duty other than maximizing profit they will impliment such strategies. Hence
> the free-market reduces to an opportunistic anarchy.

Hardly.  If you are saying consumers are stupid, you are probably right,
and their ignorance may be rational, since it would be expensive to
certify everything you encounter in one day.  But it does not mean that
business would enjoy any increased profit.  Consumers would simply bid
down the price where companies would compete on who could supply
substandard dreck most efficiently.

Nor would they really be denied information.  Some people subscribe to
consumer reports, some don't.  If you buy a noname blackbox, it is your
choice.  If you buy something that is rated as being good you may pay
more, but would get extra value (and consumer reports makes money by
coming as close as possible to unbiased testing in the main).

And you assume that men are islands and don't talk or communicate. 
Imagine two restaraunts.  If people get food poisoning every week or so at
one, people will learn not to go there, and it will fold as people go to
the second.  Reputation (economists include it in the term "good will")
does have an economic benefit.  And it does not require government to
regulate.  If fact government is usually the worst in determining quality
- the USDA uses sniffing and appearance instead of microbiology for a very
long time (until an e. coli outbreak).  But they certify all infected meat
as grade-A if the inspector is in a good mood.  And good meat will lose
points if the inspector is in a bad mood.  But because of the USDA, no
private concern can compete to certify healthy food (and one reason I have
cut meat consumption - what the government allows or is incapable of
catching can kill me in very unpleasant ways).

Consumers will only be denied infomation pertaining to quality if they
insist on not paying for it.  And "free" information from the government
in the form of certification or regulation is worth what you pay for it.

Underwriters lab certified things for insurance companies.  A similar
organization could insure healthy food (by publishing their standards and
charging for either inspection or results).

> This leads to one and only one conclusion, in a free-market there is no such
> thing as 'fair trade' without a third party being involved. This runs
> contrary to the definition of a free market on two counts (at least) and
> therefore the free market theory (as applied to human business, not Vulcan)
> is a circular argument based on faulty principles and a lack of
> understanding of human psychology (ie assumptions such as rational
> purchases).

You simply may not like human psychology, but that does not make the free
market any less just.  In fact, most "problems" like insurance derive from
human psychology.  People want to beleive lies.  Or want to remain
ignorant.  And don't want to take responsibility for their own actions. 
The market is completely fair and just - which are also virtues.  It is
not merciful or kind, but that is NOT its function. 

I can buy (or sell) at a given price, or I can choose not to.  The offered
price may not be a good value, but I will need to invest additional time
and money to determine that, and that is a secondary choice, but it is
still fair.  If a stock is selling at $50 on the NYSE, nothing stops you
from buying it from me at $250.  This would be unwise but not unfair.  Nor
would it require any third party.  If you know I take advantage of
ignorance, you will not deal with me without informing yourself first.
You may rationally decide not to check if I sell near market prices if
it is typical that most people do.  But you will acquire the information
of my business practice with the purchase.  You may also rationally get a
second bid.  No one witholds information.  But no one forces information
upon you.  You have only to act rationally at whatever level you decide.

In my earlier post, I mentioned that I think stocks are in a bubble - i.e.
overvalued by 70%.  Which if any government agency is saying this?  Are
these fair prices?  You think so if you bought in when they were only
overvalued by 50%.  But how does the government prevent people from
bidding up the price of stocks, or beanie babies?  I think they are called
crazes or manias for good reason.  When it collapses they will call on the
government, but all the information will have been there in black and
white all along.  But they would rather belive in a pleasant illusion
than cold reality.  And you can't make any regulation that will change
that.  Illusions also have prices.  And people will gladly pay them.  This
is unwise (A fool and his money are soon parted), but not unfair (wisdom
has riches in her left hand and long life in her right).

The market enforces a foolishness tax which no government can repeal.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 05:38:41 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: "Microsoft is racist"
Message-ID: <199810192111.OAA06317@smtp.well.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/15702.html

                     On the sidewalk in front of the building, a
                     handful of protesters held up a sign
                     saying "Microsoft is racist." The group
                     attacked the company for not donating
                     money to Howard University, which is
                     predominately black. 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 01:04:58 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: 2 questions: Prime Numbers and DES
In-Reply-To: <19981018.151326.-968627.0.Steve.Benjamin@juno.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981019174636.008a3e00@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Go look around for the crypto archives.  Some good places have been
www.replay.com (or replay.nl?), ftp.funet.fi, ftp.ox.ac.uk, ftp.dsi.unimi.it.
Look for the Cyphernomicon and the sci.crypt faqs.  Altavista is your friend.

If you want code for DOS, remember that you can compile and run
C programs on DOS, and a bare-bones DES program that uses stdin and stdout
should do just fine.

For prime numbers, read some books!  Bruce Schneier's book is a good
place to start.  Also, look around on www.rsa.com.

The standard approach to generating large prime numbers is to generate
large random odd numbers of the length you want and see if they're prime.
Actually proving primality is hard, but there are tests for "probable primes"
that appear to be independent - so you take the candidate numbers and
run 20 iterations of a test to get probability 2**-20 or 2**-40 of error.
Depending on speed of things, it's usually more efficient to run a sieve
to eliminate multiples of small primes (certainly 2,3,5,7, possibly many more)
since those tests are often faster than the probable primality testing.

If you want to _understand_ this stuff, as opposed to merely using it,
you'll need some math, specifically number theory dealing with primes
and modular arithmetic.  But start with Schneier.


At 03:13 PM 10/18/98 -0400, Stephen Benjamin wrote:
>1.  How can I generate 2 large prime numbers?  I doubt I could create 2,
>100-digit prime numbers in my head :-)
>
>2.  Is there an implentation of DES in perl?  I didn't see a link to one
>on the export-a-sig page.  If not perl, is there one for DOS?  I'm
>looking for a bare bones one, not something with tons of features
>and a GUI.  A perl or dos version of the unix "des" program would be
>preferable.


				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 09:20:02 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: WEBSITE: Military Operations on Urbanized Terrain (MOUT)
Message-ID: <199810200056.RAA08052@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: WEBSITE: Military Operations on Urbanized Terrain (MOUT)
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 00:39:27 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Forwarded:
----------------

Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 21:44:43 -0700
From: "A.C." 
Subject: WEBSITE: Military Operations on Urbanized Terrain (MOUT)

BELOW IS A SITE WORTH VISITING AND DESERVING OF CAREFUL STUDY, as the US
military has made it clear in its numerous documents, that a considerable
segment of the US population is suspect, and a sizable number are of the
"warrior classes," hence must be contained.  Machiavelli, a shrewd military
strategist, understood well the strategies for keeping the balance of power
and, thus, advised the princes of Renaissance Italy, which at that time
were a collection of powerful city-states, always at war with each other.
Machiavelli's  strategies AND PHILOSOPHIES, have been, still are, the
subject of SERIOUS study by US military strategists.

"He [the prince or any ruler] must, therefore, never raise his thought from
this exercise of war, and in peacetime, he must train himself more than in
time of war; this can be done in two ways: one by action, the other by the
mind.  And as far as actions are concerned, besides keeping his soldiers
well disciplined and trained, he must always be out hunting, and must
accustom his body to hardships in this manner; and HE MUST ALSO LEARN THE
NATURE OF THE TERRAIN, AND KNOW HOW MOUNTAINS SLOPE, HOW VALLEYS OPEN, HOW
PLAINS LIE, AND UNDERSTAND THE NATURE OF RIVERS AND SWAMPS; [emphasis ac]
and he should devote much attention to such activities. ... and a Prince
who lacks this ability lacks the most important quality in a leader;
because this skill teaches you to find the enemy, choose a campsite, lead
troops, organize them for battle, and besiege towns to your own advantage."
 .... Therefore, a prince must not worry about the reproach of cruelty when
it is a matter of keeping his subjects united and loyal; ......."  The
Prince, by Machiavelli.    
>
>http://earthops.org/sovereign/urban_warfare/

>Military Operations on Urbanized Terrain (MOUT)

            FM 90-10
 Headquarters Department of Army
  Washington, DC, 15 August 1979 

                              FM 90-10

                     Military Operations
                          on Urbanized
                       Terrain (MOUT)

                       Table of Contents

CHAPTER 1... INTRODUCTION 

     Urbanization 

     Characteristics of Urban Warfare 

CHAPTER 2... OFFENSE 

     How the Enemy Defends 

     Planning the Attack 

     The Offensive Battle 

     Corps 

     Division 

     Brigade 

     Battalion Task Force 

CHAPTER 3... DEFENSE 

     How the Enemy Attacks 

     Planning the Defense 

     The Defensive Battle 

     Corps 

     Division 

     Brigade 

     Battalion Task Force 

CHAPTER 4... COMBAT SUPPORT 

     Field Artillery 

     Engineer 

     Army Aviation 

     Tactical Air 

     Air Defense 

     Military Police 

     Chemical 

     Communications 

CHAPTER 5... COMBAT SERVICE SUPPORT 

     Support Organization 

     Logistical Functions 

     Noncombatants 

     Civil Affairs Operations 

     Refugee Control 

APPENDIX A... Urban Terrain Analysis 

APPENDIX B... Weapons Effects And Employment 

APPENDIX C... How To Select And Prepare Defensive Positions In Built-Up Areas 

APPENDIX D... Employment Of Obstacles And Mines In Built-Up Areas 

APPENDIX E... Demolitlons 

APPENDIX F... Armored Forces In Built-Up Area 

APPENDIX G... How To Attack And Clear Building 

APPENDIX H... References And International Agreements 




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 09:21:31 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: [FP] National ID back on table?
Message-ID: <199810200056.RAA08063@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: [FP] National ID back on table?
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 09:52:36 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Forwarded:
---------------
From: "ScanThisNews" 
Subject: [FP] National ID back on table?
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 07:05:28 -0500

SCAN THIS NEWS

MONDAY
OCTOBER 19, 1998

National ID back on table?
 Weekend maneuvers in Congress
 may kill moratorium

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/exclusiv/981019_national_id_back_o.shtml

By David M. Bresnahan
Copyright 1998, WorldNetDaily.com

Last-minute deals on Capitol Hill may remove a previously negotiated
moratorium on the national ID card, and one organization opposed to the card
is not surprised or disappointed.

The law was already passed by Congress in 1996 and a national ID for all
Americans will soon be in use unless changes to the law are made soon. The
omnibus appropriations bill contained a ban on the national ID, first
exposed in WorldNetDaily, but over the weekend efforts were made to remove
that ban.

A great many bills were never voted on during the year. With elections just
around the corner, politicians want to go home to their districts and brag
about something they've done this past year. The omnibus bill contains
thousands of pages, including many pet projects intended to win votes.

The main purpose of the bill, negotiated last week and scheduled for a vote
tomorrow, is to approve the budget and keep government in business. Prior to
the negotiations last week, all sides were predicting a shut-down of
government over disagreements in the budget. No one in Congress wants to
explain to voters why government has come to a grinding halt just before an
election, so the passage of the omnibus bill is assured, along with anything
else attached to it.

"There are so many deals that have been made and are still being made that
no one will ever know exactly what's in that thing and what's not until long
after the vote is over and the members all go home to campaign," explained a
congressional aide who did not wish to be named.

The moratorium was first included in the transportation appropriations bill,
but Rep. Lamar Smith, R-TX, convinced Speaker Newt Gingrich, R-GA, to remove
it before passage, according to House Transportation Committee sources.

The ban on the national ID was then included the omnibus bill. However,
Smith has continued to make efforts to kill the provision, according to a
congressional source who has been working on the ban.

"It's very hard to say just what will happen, but I do know that Smith has
recruited help from some other members and the Speaker is considering their
requests," said the source yesterday. It was Smith who got the national ID
ban out of the transportation appropriations bill.

"It was reported that Lamar Smith had obtained an agreement from Speaker
Gingrich to eliminate this provision from the bill," reported Patrick Poole
of the Free Congress Foundation. The ban was back in the bill "after many
House members openly complained to the speaker about Lamar Smith's seemingly
religious devotion to the national ID idea and the American people's
vehement opposition to being branded and tagged by the U.S. government,"
explained Poole.

Numerous organizations opposed to the concept of a national ID rallied their
members to send thousands of letters, faxes, and make phone calls to
Congress for the past two weeks. Rep. Smith could not be reached on Sunday
night by WorldNetDaily, but he did publish a letter in the Washington Times
last Tuesday because of the many calls his office received.

"I do not support a national ID card and don't know anyone in Congress who
does," said Smith in his letter. He tried to label those voicing opposition
as radicals when he added, "There are fringe groups that believe the United
Nations is taking over Yellowstone National Park, that Congress is creating
a national ID card or that they have been abducted by UFOs."

The law to create a national ID card was passed as part of the Illegal
Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996. One section of
the act requires all states to make their driver's licenses comply with
certain guidelines found in Section 656 (b) of the act, including the use of
the Social Security Number on all licences and in all data bases beginning
Oct. 1, 2000.

The act also calls for digitized biometric information to be a part of each
license, or "smart card." The biometric information will include
fingerprints, retina scans, DNA prints, and other similar information.

Responsibility for the design and implementation of the cards has been given
to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration of the Department of
Transportation. That agency has recently published the proposed "Driver's
License/SSN/National Identification Document," which contains the guidelines
which must be in force by each state -- a federal mandate once campaigned
against by many conservative Republicans.

"These new national ID regulations violate every notion of federalism,
because they force states to comply with regulations issued by the federal
government without any constitutional authority to do so," said Poole
recently. "Nor are federal agencies empowered to force states to gather
detailed information on every person in order to comply with federal
mandates. The net result of the DOT's regulations is to establish a national
ID system, which has been opposed by almost every non-governmental sector
for the past five decades."

House Majority Leader Dick Armey, R-TX, Rep. Ron Paul, R-TX, and Rep. Bob
Barr, R-GA, have been working on repeal legislation, but there was
insufficient time to bring it to a vote during this session of Congress.

The DOT solicited public comments on their plans for implementation of
Section 656 (b) of the act earlier this year. The public comment period has
just closed and many thousands of letters in opposition were received,
according to a spokesman. Five states also expressed opposition to the plan,
and only a "small number" of letters supporting the plan were known to the
spokesman, who spoke on condition that his name would not be published.

One group that has worked diligently for the repeal of the national ID card
was not surprised to learn of plans to remove the ban from the omnibus bill.

"I won't be terribly disappointed if the one-year moratorium is removed from
the appropriations bill. In fact, if left in, the moratorium may actually
serve to provide an unwelcomed delay in this issue being addressed by
Congress and the DOT," said Scott McDonald leader of "Fight the
Fingerprint."

McDonald says his group will use the situation to educate more people
regardless of which way the bill ends up. He is concerned that national
debate on the national ID will be delayed by the ban and would lessen the
chances to get the law repealed. McDonald wants the debate to begin now.

"Time is on the side of the proponents of the national ID. Opposition to any
issue tends to wane as time passes. The American people have already firmly
stated their strong opposition to the DOT's proposed standardized driver's
license proposal. Now it's time for the DOT to act on behalf of the people
they serve. The DOT should go back to Congress with a report stating that
the American people do not want a national ID which the 1996 immigration law
would establish via standardized driver's licenses," explained McDonald on
Sunday.

McDonald's group is opposed to the use of Social Security numbers from being
used as past of driver's licences and in centralized government databases
tied to driver's licenses and other government documents. His group is also
opposed to the use of fingerprints on such records.

In the event there is a moratorium on the implementation of the National ID,
McDonald predicts there will be a good chance the DOT will design a
compromise which will keep Social Security numbers off licences but keep the
number on license applications and in universal data bases to keep track of
individuals.

Without a moratorium, a report must be provided by DOT detailing the
responses they received from the public on the issue. McDonald wants
Congress to see that report as soon as possible.

"Without the temporary reprieve, the DOT is required by law to respond to
all public comments which have been filed with the agency, and to publish
their responses in the Federal Register," said McDonald. "I am anxious to
see their responses. If the moratorium goes into effect, the DOT may be able
to avoid this mandatory requirement. The American people deserve to be know
what the DOT's official position is in response to the objections raised by
those individuals and groups who took the time to object."

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

You can call the capitol toll free at........1-800-378-1844

Lamar Smith..................................1-202-225-4236
Speaker Gingrich.............................1-202-225-0600

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 09:26:57 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Brave New World of Implants
Message-ID: <199810200056.RAA08074@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Brave New World of Implants
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 10:42:06 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  Jewish World Review / Oct. 19,1998 / 29 Tishrei, 5759 
http://www.jewishworldreview.com/0798/mothernature.html

Can we 'fool Mother Nature'?
Do we want to?

By David S. Oderberg 

IMAGINE THAT YOU have been fitted with a tiny
electronic device, measuring nearly an inch long and a third
of an inch wide. This device receives and emits radio waves
in the presence of transceivers in 'intelligent' buildings
fitted to recognize the unique signal emanating from the
tiny 'smart' chip in your body. This chip, implanted just
under the skin on your arm, has immense advantages. With
it you can open and close doors, pass through security
channels set up to recognize your identity, operate
machines such as computers and faxes, and generally
negotiate your technological world with greater ease and
convenience than at present. You can even use your chip to
carry out daily commerce. 

Swipe your arm over a scanner and you can make
payments, have your account debited automatically, check
you bank balance. In short, you can do everything which
currently requires you to lug around a walletful of credit
cards. One small catch, though: because of this chip, your
whereabouts are known to others at every minute of every
day. You can be tracked like a car or airplane. 

Orwellian nightmare? Delusional apocalyptic fantasy? One
would have thought so, until it emerged in the British press
a short while ago that Kevin Warwick, professor of
cybernetics at the University of Reading -- my own
university, as a matter of fact -- has decided to try out such
a scenario on himself. 

Seeing himself as a latter day Edward Jenner -- the
pioneering scientist who tried out the smallpox vaccine on
his own body -- Prof. Warwick has entered the hallowed
halls of self-experimentation by having just such a silicon
chip injected under the skin near his elbow. He is, as far as
anyone knows, the first person to do so. The results of his
experiment are not yet known. He has to take antibiotics
against the risk of infection, and is a little concerned his
body will reject the alien device. 

Speaking of the doctor who agreed to implant the chip,
Prof. Warwick says: "If it all goes wrong and my arm
explodes, which I have been warned could happen, my wife
will probably sue...". 

The good professor is, nevertheless, sanguine about the
possible side effects. For he sees himself as a crusader at
the cutting edge of cybertechnology. Already famous for his
little machines -- looking a bit like cockroaches on wheels --
which, he glows, behave for all the world as though they
have intelligence (something I and others doubted when we
saw them in action), Prof. Warwick is thrusting forward in
the attempt to fulfil the prophecy of his own recent
best-seller, March of the Machines. 

"It is possible," he says, "for machines to become more
intelligent than humans in the reasonably near future.
Machines will then become the dominant life form on earth."
Is this a tragedy? No, he adds blithely: "We are just an
animal, not much better or worse than the other animals. We
have our uses [sic], because we are different. We are
slightly more intelligent than the other animals." 

The professor looks forward to the day when machines rule
our lives. The fact that his microchip enables him to be
traced is no great worry. His secretary finds it a boon: "It
was often hard to find Prof. Warwick...but since the implant
we always know where he is." 

And so would your employer if you were similarly
implanted. You would be monitored every time you clocked
in and out of work, or left the workplace. Prof. Warwick
surmises the chip could carry all sorts of information, such
as medical records, past convictions, financial data. 

"It is quite possible for an implant to replace an Access or
Visa card. There is very little danger in losing an implant or
having it stolen," he said. But it seems Prof. Warwick is alive
to the dangers of the microchip implant: "I know all this
smacks of Big Brother," he comments. 

Where the technology will ultimately go "I really don't know
and would not like to envisage." 

By now, you may well be feeling a little spooked. This is not
surprising. Nor should the experiment itself be such a
shock. After all, on October 11th 1993, The Washington
Times reported on the "high-tech national tattoo" made by
Hughes Aircraft Company --- an implantable transponder
which the company called "an ingenious, safe, inexpensive,
foolproof and permanent method of ... identification using
radio waves." 

In 1994, in the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, it was reported that a
local humane society offered pet owners, for $25, to inject
their dogs or cats with a microchip, to prevent their being
lost or stolen. A Dr. Carl Sanders, electronics engineer and
inventor of the Intelligent Manned Interface biochip, told the
Monetary Economic Review that satellites could be used to
track people fitted with the IMI chip: "We used this with
military personnel in the Iraq war where they were actually
tracked using this particular type of device." 

Whether soldiers have actually 'volunteered' to be
surgically implanted with the chip, as opposed to carrying it
on their clothing, is not made clear by Dr. Sanders. But what
we do know is that proponents of this technology envisage
first using it on animals (now widespread, particularly dogs,
cats and cattle), then prisoners (more effective than
electronic ankle tags), then children (e.g., newborn babies,
so as to prevent their being switched or lost) and elderly
people suffering from Alzheimer's disease (to prevent their
wandering and getting lost). After that, who knows? The
potential for the chips to replace credit cards and cash is
huge, and will tempt financial institutions in turn to tempt
their customers to 'try out' the chip with no obligation to
carry it permanently, and monetary rewards for those who
persevere. 

Supporters of the injectible microchip say it is just the
logical extension of a technology that already allows the
heavy monitoring of people through pagers, cellular
phones, 'smart' cards, and cars fitted with Global
Positioning System transponders. On the other hand, could
it not be said that the advent of the chip implant is the final
outrage which demonstrates the inherent unacceptability of
its technological ancestors? We are, it seems, fast
approaching a world that even George Orwell was not able
to envisage. 

Had the microchip implant been known in his day there can
be no doubt it would have replaced the 'telescreen' in his
dystopian novel 1984. The fact that the corporations and
individuals promoting its use are not being bombarded
daily with protests from millions of outraged citizens is itself
cause for wonder. How, particularly in countries such as
the USA and Britain in which civil liberties are so prized, is it
possible for so much propaganda to reach the mass media
with barely a hint of contrary opinion? 

Prof. Warwick has gained enormous publicity, and is
flooded with calls from journalists wanting to know how his
little experiment is going. Until, however, a sufficient
number of citizens make known their implacable opposition
to the totalitarian trend of a technology which threatens to
reduce most humans to the status of cattle, the likes of Prof.
Warwick will go about their evil work unperturbed.


JWR contributor Dr. David S. Oderberg is Lecturer in
Philosophy at the University of Reading, England, and a
freelance journalist. 

 (c)1998, David S. Oderberg
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Kevin Elliott 
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 07:43:10 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: RE: IP: Fwd: Evaluation of Vehicle Stopping Prototype ("KillSwitch")
In-Reply-To: <362B8D7F.888@lsil.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>BTW - Did you see the bullshit that happened up in Vallejo? Cops sent a
>dog into a culvert after a suspect. The suspect shot and killed the dog.
>The police had a full-fledged funeral, casket and all for the fucking
>dog. Flowers all over he place, mourners. Now they're buying goddamned
>kevlar vests for their dogs. Fuckheads. Who's the citizen? The human or
>the dog?

It costs money to train an attack dog- kevlar sounds like a good way to
protect the states investment.

>As for the suspect he's charged with something for killing the dog.

Definitely manslaughter, probably 2nd or even 1st degree murder.  In (I
believe) every state the union the penalty for shooting a police dog is the
same as shooting an on duty police officer.  Police dogs are effectively
classified as deputies.

>Simple destruction of property, which would be a charge befitting the
>act, is probably not enough to avenge beloved Bowser's death. Because
>it's a cop-dog-on-duty the penalty is probably more than restitution and
>some community service. Jail time for defending yourself against an
>attack dog?

I'm not sure the issue is as simple as you paint it.  You say defending
yourself from an attack dog- however attack dog implies your life was in
danger (if it was it would be comfortably within your rights to shoot the
dog as self defense) inherent in it being a police dog is that it is well
trained and won't kill you (this is in general- I don't know the specifics
of the case and so don't have perfect info on what was going on when he
shot the dog).  Their is also the issue of resisting arrest (I don't know
exactly how he got in that culvert, but I suspect he wasn't enjoying the
scenery) and shooting at the police.  We have to consider shooting at the
dog in the same category as shooting at the police for the same reason
shooting at their car would be in the same category as shooting at the
police.  Regardless we know have a total of 3 crimes that seem to me add up
to jail time regardless of whatever he was originally being chased for.
1. Resisting arrest
2. Shooting at the police
3. Killing the dog (whatever crime you want to classify this as)


___________________________________________________________________________
"DOS/WIN based computers manufactured by companies such as IBM, Compaq,
Tandy, and millions of others, are by far the most popular, with about 70
million machines in use worldwide. Macintosh fans, on the other hand, note
that cockroaches are far more numerous than humans, and that numbers alone
do not denote a higher life form." - New York Times

-Kevin "The Cubbie" Elliott 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 09:19:54 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Dorkslayers..
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


From: steven.soroka@mts.mb.ca
X-Lotus-FromDomain: MTS
To: coderpunks@toad.com
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 18:02:52 -0500
Subject: Dorkslayers..
Mime-Version: 1.0
Sender: owner-coderpunks@toad.com
Precedence: bulk

You'll notice that toad.com is on the dorkslayers list, (under ip
140.174.2.1)..
It'd advisable to find a way to remove it..

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 04:42:50 +0800
To: fisherm@tce.com
Subject: Re: 2 questions: Prime Numbers and DES
In-Reply-To: <2C396693FBDED111AEF60000F84104A721C02B@indyexch_fddi.indy.tce.com>
Message-ID: <199810191956.UAA08549@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




> Steve Benjamin writes:
> >2.  Is there an implentation of DES in perl?  I didn't see a link to one
> >on the export-a-sig page.  If not perl, is there one for DOS?  I'm
> >looking for a bare bones one, not something with tons of features
> >and a GUI.  A perl or dos version of the unix "des" program would be
> >preferable.
> 
> CPAN (the Comprehensive Perl Archive Network),
> , is your friend -- use it.  (Look under
> "Authentication, Security and Encryption" -- there are 3 versions of DES
> listed, along with an interface to SSLeay, which includes DES as one of its
> algorithms).

Steve Reid wrote an RSA key generator in perl and dc.  See:

	http://sea-to-sky.net/~sreid/rsagen.txt

I am not sure about the security of the keygeneration algorithm.  Ron
Rivest suggested it as a hack to more easily generate keys on the
coderpunks list I think a year or so back, when Steve was discussing
easier ways to generate valid RSA keys.  But I am not sure if such
keys are hard to factor or not.  Perhaps one should ask Rivest before
using it, you'll have to check the archives for Rivest's comments,
unless you can understand the alogirthm from Steve's code.

Also you asked about DES, here's a compact perl version of DES (not on
my web page, must have forgotten to add it), by John Allen:

#!/bin/perl -s-- DES in perl5
$/=" ";sub u{$_=;s/\s//g;map{-33+ord}/./g}$"='';$[=1;@S=map{[u]}1..8;@I=
u;@F=u;@C=(split//,unpack B64,pack H16,$k.0 x16)[u];@D=splice@C,29;@p=u;$_=11 .
2222221 x2;for$l(/./g){map{push@$_,splice@$_,1,$l}\@C,\@D;$K[++$i]="@{[(@C,@D)
[@p]]}"}@E=u;@P=u;%a=map{unpack(B8,chr$_),$_}0..63;while(read STDIN,$b,8){@L=(
split//,unpack B64,$b."\0"x7)[@I];@R=splice@L,33;for$i(1..16){$i=17-$i if$d;@t
=@R[@E];$j=1;$n=0;for(($K[$i]^"@t"|0 x48)=~/.{6}/g){($n<<=4)+=${$S[$j++]}[$a{
"00$_"}+1]};@t=(split//,unpack B32,pack N,$n)[@P];@X=split//,"@L"^"@t"|0 x32;
@L=@R;@R=@X}print pack B64,join'',(@R,@L)[@F]}__END__~printunpacku,'$2F%P:```'
/!%0.("%#/0#,.)"$++''--,&**&!$()%0"-/))#.%'*#",(0&-,*$(/$++!&'!. 0$".)%/('0,#$
)%/*-(!#".+-'!*&,+&!./)(+,"+$%0.%"#&,)'-('-*!$&#/0* +.!(*!/*'$$%0'&+"#.)-&(/,-
%,#0)"."'+%.*!)'0*$)!(,%"0#/-$&,+&/#(- (..)/,$&!''0*!+$"%#()#&-,"-+%/0*+$'0*!!
'-+,"(..)0*"%$&/,&-#()#%/ #/-,%#"-(%+(,.'")&&!$00+.$!*/)*'%,#)"-,(+"./(#).0'*0
-!&*'+$%!&/$ -+"0+%0#*(#-'*)&!'."$.%//!(,&$,)*%/$0#&-#*)&-0$+(,!/%"+("'.!,)'. 
%.,!#,/(0%!*)".+$/-$*&(-&#+0')"'"'%,,..)-"$%(+/(+*0&'!)0!/&#*$#- ."#0).%)'+0$,
("%+-*&$'/,&!!/-*(#(#,"%/"(*%-+/)#.!0'-+*.!0$$&&'), [SKC;3+#]UME=5-%_WOG?7/'aY
QIA91)ZRJB:2*"\TLD<4,$^VNF>6.&`XPH@80( I)Q1Y9aAH(P0X8`@G'O/W7_?F&N.V6^>E%M-U5]
=D$L,T4\6.&
=5-% /2,9"&$=0'6+84-%;)1(<5.#JU@FPX?ITNBQMRHYCVOKSE>A A"#$%&%&'()*)*+,-.-./012
12345656789:9:;<=>=>?@A" 1(56>-=2"08;&3@+#)9/A<$*4.?'7,%:

Adam




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Missouri FreeNet Administration 
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 11:23:22 +0800
To: "'cypherpunks@toad.com>
Subject: Re: Dorkslayers..
Message-ID: <01BDFBA8.6C12F0A0@noc.mfn.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





We had a run-in with Dorkslayers last night too :(

The first time we brought out our sendmail update, 
we left it in it's "Virgin state" for approximately
6 hours for monitoring.  During that period we "failed"
a "relay test", and were blacklisted.  As an RBL subscriber,
I was appalled at the difference in attitudes between vix
and dorkslayers.  It is obvious after just a momentary look 
at the web site that they are out to "have some fun" 
antagonizing others.  

The RBL will mail a notice.  These slimebags don't even
care if you have had an illegal relay: all they care about 
is finding an  *excuse*  to put you on their list.  Why is
a group "dedicated to saving the InterNet" giving it's biggest 
prominence (in terms of W3 space) to hate mail recieved from
people that D/S has intentionally wronged?

This group is actually *hurting* the cause significantly.  I 
was furious enough that I almost left the anti-relay out just
to piss them off.  The problem is, *that's what they really want*.

Getting off is easy, just configure your networks they way *THEY*
want them configured: your clients/customers/employees can all
go to hell as far as Dorkslayers is concerned. VERY POOR.

Perhaps a torrent of mail asking *THEM* to clean up their
act would be a "push in the right direction"?

J.A. Terranson
sysadmin@mfn.org
(Who will not doubt be back on their list by tomorrow
for daring to bad mouth the all-mighty "Dorkslayers")




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 11:03:34 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: My citizenship renunciation made difficult (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810200247.VAA08359@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 22:17:12 -0400 (AST)
> From: Vincent Cate 
> Subject: My citizenship renunciation made difficult 

> But most of all, the very idea that the US government has to give me
> permission to renounce my association with it seems totally wrong.  The
> people in the US are supposed to be free, not slaves or subjects.  Free
> means free to leave. 
> 
> Any advice?

Sue.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Vincent Cate 
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 10:37:19 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: My citizenship renunciation made difficult
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




My Barbados Embassy/Consulate contact Steve Steger (246) 228 4338 called
me up and told me that the state department has not approved my
renunciation - they say one of the forms the Barbados guys had me fill out
is old.

For those just tuning in, I renounced my citizenship to be free of US laws
on cryptography.

While I was at the Consulate they had me fill out a 1st set of forms, then
said those were obsolete (a few years back) and after waiting around for
hours they had me fill out a 2nd set of forms that they said was the
current version.  I filled out and signed everything they gave me.  They
then had an interview with several witnesses.  They took my US passport
and gave me copies of the 2nd version of all the forms with my signatures
and theirs on them. 

Now Steve says that I am supposed to travel down to Barbados again using
up my time and my money because of their error to do a 3rd version of
their forms. Both the time and the money make this a hardship.  They won't
mail me this 3rd version of the forms and they won't pay for my trip (let
alone time). 

It seems to me that since I told the New York times that I renounced my US
citizenship, and they told the world, that it should be a done deal. Also,
spending a day in the Consulate signing everything they gave me should be
enough to do it.  And why is a form saying basically "I renounce my
citizenship" that worked awhile back not effective today?

But most of all, the very idea that the US government has to give me
permission to renounce my association with it seems totally wrong.  The
people in the US are supposed to be free, not slaves or subjects.  Free
means free to leave. 

Any advice?

   -- Vince

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 Vincent Cate                           Offshore Information Services
 Vince@Offshore.com.ai                  http://www.offshore.com.ai/
 Anguilla, BWI                          http://www.offshore.com.ai/vince
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

You have to take life as it happens, but you should try to make it
happen the way you want to take it.    - German Proverb






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Blanc" 
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 14:12:43 +0800
To: 
Subject: RE: My citizenship renunciation made difficult
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <000701bdfbec$a511c220$588195cf@blanc>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>From Vince Cate:

: But most of all, the very idea that the US government has to give me
: permission to renounce my association with it seems totally
: wrong.  The people in the US are supposed to be free, not slaves or
: subjects.  Free means free to leave.
.......................................................


That was a long time ago, Vince.   People don't think that way any more.   Government
clerks have taken over the world.   No one is their own person any more; we belong to the
National Identity.   But anything which goes wrong is totally your fault.  You should have
known those forms were obsolete.   Do they have to tell you everything?  (do they have to
tell you *anything*?)

I would advise them that if they want more information from you, to come and get it.   I
would advise them to copy the information from the old form.  I would advise them to call
you on the phone and inquire over any missing information to satisfy their need for it.  I
would advise your new leaders in Mozambique to harrass the US clerks and threaten them
with something.  I would advise the New York Times about this bit of inanity.   I would
ask the clerks what they're going to do about it if you don't fill out a new form (take a
boat trip over and dock you?)   I would ask the Mozambique govmt whether they care, and if
they would cooperate with the US if it staked a claim on your body (and your tax
contributions).   I would post this somewhere on the internet where many people would read
it and talk about it, not only to let them know how things work, but also to  alert
cyberspace about yet another flaw in government operations and in the US legal atmosphere.

All very useful ideas.   : |

    ..
Blanc




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 13:07:41 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Another potential flaw in current economic theory... (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810200440.XAA08804@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Hi,

I've a point unrelated to this topic. I recieved two copies of your email.
One was 101 lines and the other was 108 lines, the difference being 7 blank
lines. Pretty curious, no?

Forwarded message:

> Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 15:15:13 -0400
> From: tzeruch@ceddec.com
> Subject: Re: Another potential flaw in current economic theory...

> Not labor any more than capital.  I think what you refer to is often
> called "stakeholders" which includes suppliers and customers in addition
> to employees. 

Well suppliers are a business unto themselves so I'm not sure I can extend
my point that far. I certainly wouldn't include customers as this confuses
the entire issue of the point of business (ie making a profit). If we extend
the issue to include customers then we're looking at reducing our profit
margin to zero as we discount our services to the customer over time. There
is also the aspect that with this model we end up selling our service to
ourselves, an inherently loosing proposition since there is no profit to be
made at all in that case.

> However you do not need to play games to justify proper treatment of
> employees.

I didn't mean to imply any sort of mistreatment, though I did raise that
spectre in related postings. Sorry for the confusion. The point I was trying
to make was that business has a third, and untried near as I can tell,
strategy in approaching their business process. Include the employees in the
plan with the specific goal of making them rich enough and invested enough
so they don't have to work and do it in a short time span - say 10 years.
I've read a few pieces (I must admit to viewing them as pie-in-the-sky) which
predict that what will happen with technology is that people will begin to
invest in automated processes and over time as these become ubiquitous people
don't work, they live off their profit from the investment in these automated
factories. One aspect, which I alluded to above, is that at some point the
investors are also their own customers so that the profit they make to buy
the materials is in a closed loop. This seems to me to invite a level of
inflation (in order to preserve at least the ghost of a profit) that would
explode pretty quickly.

> If you consider capital such as a machine, it is usually
> better to keep it well maintained and in good repair instead of letting it
> wear out and rust - the quality of your goods will suffer, profits will go
> down, and shareholders will dump management.

True enough, though the machines don't retire (they do wear out). If we look
at it from a strictly cost analysis perspective I'd agree with you (as I
understand your point) fully. The question I have is what if we abandon the
Friedman view and take on a more humanistic view. In short, business
represent a participant in a social process. As a result they have more
duties than just making profit for their shareholders (or stakeholders).

[text deleted]

> Our current stock market bubble - which is in the process of popping -
> distorted this.

I agree in part, I believe that the reason we're seeing the failure of the
traditional economic systems is that in large scales with extremely fluid
capital (intellectual, physical, monetary, etc.) it becomes very difficult
to keep long term participants when there are so many more lucrative
short-term potentials. I personaly feel the collapse of the CCCP in the early
90's is a good indication of this 'delayed responce' syndrome. I also believe
the current problem with funding the government is another example where the
gains are such that the traditional political and social views don't apply
well enough so that the errors cancel each other out. Instead they pile on
top of each other over time. My guess is that the current political system
will collapse of its own ineptitude and lethargy as well as a wedding to
outmoded ideas sometime in the next 20 years or so. What comes after, I
believe at this point, will be a polycratic technocracy based on distributed
democratic ideals.

>  My concept of Usury (yes, another mideval or earlier
> idea) is loaning in the abstract.  You just want 5% or 10%, and try to
> find a piece of paper (or electronic book entry) that will return it
> regardless of what is behind the paper.  This can include ponzi schemes if
> they aren't recognized as such.

Oops, what's a 'ponzi scheme'? I can't find it in any of my texts....

> If people were really investing in the non-usurous sense, they would be
> concerned with the company as an organic whole, with the suppliers, and
> customers, and employees, and the physical plant and everything else,

I understand the conept of 'organic whole'. I have to disagree at extending
it to include the customers and suppliers for the reasons listed above. In a
very real sense the term you use is more apt than anything I've come up
with so far as a label.

> If I want milk, I will be very concerned with keeping the cow happy and
> healthy, and doing so rationally - pampering the cow too much won't give
> any more milk and maybe make the cow less healthy, but starving it or
> beating it would be worse.

I agree, the interesting question - I hope without stretching the comparison
too far - is what happens when the farmer figures out how to make the milk
using a bacteria (for example) via genetic manipulation? (this is meant as
an example of technical invasion of a traditional market) Does the farmer
continue to feed the cow on principle (it being a fellow living creature and
mankind having destroyed its natural habitats and hence we can't turn it
loose) or simply kill the beast and sell the remains to the golden arches?

> price didn't go up further).  I haven't heard a reason connected with
> something tangible (dividends, book-value, cash flow) for someone to own
> such a stock.  Only that "it the internet".  And I think this decoupling
> is at the center of what you are getting at.  Paper v.s. people, and when
> it comes time to decide, the paper wins.

That is most definitely a major aspect of the problem. People get so dazzled
by the visions of fruit plums dancing before their eyes they don't notice
the snow has melted.

> There is a lot of ignorance, and it is rational in the short term - these
> stocks are going up, so it would otherwise make sense to follow the trend.
> But if the trend is all that is being watched, who is going to care if
> they are using slave-labor? - to mention just one issue.

I'm afraid I don't quite catch your point here. Could you reword it?

> But that is investing in a bubble.

Exactly why I don't want to see an integrated world economy. It's doomed to
fail from the get go.

>  The same thing happened in 1720 with
> the South Seas company in Great Britian and the Mississippi Scheme in
> France.

I'll look into these as I'm not familiar with the particular. Thanks for the
lead.

> And I think we will see the same thing here and across the globe shortly.
> Japan started to see this in the early '90s.

Agreed. What I find really funny (in a macabre sort of sense I admit) is
that the folks who are hording gold and other supposed universal valuables
are in for a big surprise at what comes out of the other end. This is going
to be a economic/political Industrial Revolution the likes of which haven't
been seen since mankind invented the little clay balls for sealing contracts
for selling sheep and such.

    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 13:19:46 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Another question about free-markets... (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810200457.XAA08867@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 15:53:45 -0400
> From: tzeruch@ceddec.com
> Subject: Re: Another question about free-markets... (fwd)

> Most of these are due to regulation.

No, they are due to a basic human trait - greed. The problem isn't a
economic one it's a people one.

  If you assume the Secret Service
> will bear the cost of enforcing anti-cloning laws, you will not spend the
> money to make your phones unclonable even if the technology exists.

Assuming of course you trust the Secret Service fully and they happen to be
honest to a fault.

> Excessive rate levels are a misnomer.  The only way you can succeed in
> charging above market prices is if there is a law to bar entry.

But that is the exact point in regards cell cloning for example. The final
cost to the purchaser of the clone is *less* than the normal market price.
In a free-market economy the obviously rational thing to do is clone, the
really bad thing is there is nobody short of Guido and his buds to help
the original maker recover those costs or prevent recurrences.

> sub-standard construction is also a misnomer - if you paid for standard X,
> you simply don't pay until the construction is up to that standard.

You've got a circular reasoning here. If we're still talking about a free
market there is no 3rd party to define standards and such to measure
against. There won't even be groups that will be able to review the various
products and compare them in an open market (review the current database
licenses in regards to doing public comparisons).

> Hardly.  If you are saying consumers are stupid, you are probably right,

No, I'm saying there is a considerable sector of the human population that
is dishonest. This won't change based on economic models.

> And you assume that men are islands and don't talk or communicate. 

Actualy I don't. My point is that such assumptions about instant
communications (as required by current economic models) is irrelevant. I
covered that aspect at one point. The fact that people communicate won't
change their base bahaviour characteristics one whit, those are a function
of long-term species survival strategies. People are social animals, the
maximum strategy in social animals is the Prisoners Delima, you play along
most of the time and cheat occassionaly. Over time this strategy will
accumulate more resources than either a pure cheating or honest strategy.
It's this transient aspect that is completely ignored by current economic
though, they recognize only the two extremes.

> Imagine two restaraunts.  If people get food poisoning every week or so at
> one, people will learn not to go there, and it will fold as people go to
> the second.

This example really doesn't fit my theory since it isn't possible for a
single (or even two) restaraunts to saturate a market. I suspect that food,
is entirely too tied to the vagaries of transient taste to behave this way.

What is more likely to happen is that as people go back and forth between
the two restaraunts from day to day (assume that one of them is dealing bad
food) both will go down. Remember there isn't a health inspector or somebody
to come and test the food, only the experiential evidence of the eaters. Now
since it takes as much as 24+ hours for symptoms to develop it is entirely
possible for a person to eat at one restaraunt on Monday at luch and get
food poisoning and it not show up until the next afternoon, *after* they've
already eaten at the second restaraunt. At that point the person is sick and
isn't going to want to go back to either.

Better safe than sorry.

> Reputation (economists include it in the term "good will")
> does have an economic benefit.

Only in certain kinds of markets. I don't believe free markets are one of
them.

> You simply may not like human psychology, but that does not make the free
> market any less just.

I'm not sure how to respond to this. Let me put it to you this way...

How do you propose a free market to operate if there aren't people (and as a
conequence their psychology) involved?

> The market enforces a foolishness tax which no government can repeal.

Again, only in certain situations - a free-market is not one of them.

You might want to look at some of the recent studies done (I was looking at
an article the other day at the bookstore but can't remember the article -
sorry) that demonstrate pretty conclusively that mediocre strategies pay off
over time nearly as well as optimal ones do.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 13:13:23 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Cell phone cloning and economics...
Message-ID: <199810200501.AAA08929@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Hi,

Another point in regards the market behaviour regarding cell phones....

In a free-market there is no reason to believe that phone cloning would be
reduced as it would still provide a distinct economic advantage over those
who sell 1st line equipment.

The only thing that keeps the 1st line companies in business is the
regulation, without it they can't afford to do the basic research or
infrastrucure construction since they can't sell enough phones in the first
place because the clones have bought up their share. So without some sort of
3rd party regulation there is nothing inherent in a free-market that
protects that initial intellectual and econimic investment so that it can
grow and produce a market and a profit.

Now it is clear that this regulation is *NOT* primarily the government but
rather the social institution or society the governemt or regulatory body
exists within. Remember, the profit goes to the one who occassionaly breaks
the social taboo's.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 13:32:46 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Human psychology & free-markets: a fundamental question
Message-ID: <199810200509.AAA09007@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Why do people behave more ethicaly (or fairly) in a free-market than in a
regulated market?

It's clear the pay-off for defection is more in a free-market because the
actual opportunities come more often. The market regulation simply makes it
more costly to defect, and hence reducing the final profit motive, because
it takes more resources to bypass the regulation hence increasing the price
of defection and increasing the period between defections because it takes
more time to collect and manage the resources to defect.

I would contend that the economic problems we experience are not because the
market is regulated (or not) but that the regulation is not *impartial* to
the outcome.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "John Cypherpunk" 
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 16:21:16 +0800
To: vince@offshore.ai
Subject: RE: My citizenship renunciation made difficult
Message-ID: <19981020075442.8827.qmail@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>From Vince Cate:

: But most of all, the very idea that the US government has to give me
: permission to renounce my association with it seems totally
: wrong.  The people in the US are supposed to be free, not slaves or
: subjects.  Free means free to leave.
........................................................

Did you use the right forms to establish your citizenship?
Suggest the nice embassy people attend your offices to prove you
are a US citizen.

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 17:22:54 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: "We have to destroy privacy in order to protect privacy"
In-Reply-To: <19981019195132.27759.rocketmail@send1e.yahoomail.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 12:39 AM -0700 10/20/98, Theodor.SCHLICKMANN@BXL.DG13.cec.be wrote:
>Those who are affected in the first place are US companies who
>are used to collect and process personal data from their customers
>without any embarrassment. They will be excluded from
>the European market, if they do not follow European Data
>Protection rules.

Sounds good to me...a trade war with the Communist Confederation of Europe.

>Until now the US goverment has decided to leave this matter
>to self regulation. However, US industry did not manage to
>come up with an appropriate codex.

Because in these United States we have certain constitutional rights. Some
of those rights include the First and the Fourth Amendments. Taken together
with other rights, the conclusion is this:

The government cannot insist on the form of data stored in data bases.

(There have been unconstitutional, in the opinion of many, encroachments on
this right, and especially of what businesses and others may do with data.
Releasing or selling video rental records, for example.)

To be more concrete, if I compile lists of who is writing articles on
Usenet, I have no obligation to either purge these records or show them to
others or not sell them or _anything_. The government cannot get at my
records except under limited situations.

Europe's "data privacy laws," which I have been critical of for more than
ten years now, are an abomination. While the laws sound well-intentioned,
they effectively give the state the power to sift through filing cabinets
and disk drives looking for violations.

And the laws create much mischief. A node for the Cypherpunks distributed
list probably could not legally be run in many European states (maybe none
of the EEC states now that they are conforming to the same laws). Why not?
Check the provisions on compiling lists and the need for permission from
the compilee, and the need to register the lists with various bureaucrats.

(This example came up several years ago in connection with the U.K.'s data
privacy laws. As the law read, lists of e-mail addresses fell under the
reporting requirements, as did data bases of customers, vendors, and other
such stuff a company might collect.)

Of course, like all bad laws, these laws are only enforced at the
convenience of the state. While Germany may not hassle the Cypherpunks list
operators in Berlin, they may very well use the data privacy laws to force
the Church of Scientology to open up their lists of members, to register
the lists, to purge the lists, etc.

And France will probably use the laws to harass Greenpeace.

Bad laws. Bad to invade file cabinets.



>If industry
>does not comply until the end of the year, FTC promised that
>they will introduce a bill at congress which will comply with
>European data protection standards. On the other hand, the US did
>not even manage to adopt the Guidelines on the Protection
>of Privacy and Transborder Flow of Personal Data by OECD.

Because fucking OECD deals don't take precedence over our Constitution.


>Other countries, in particular those in Eastern and Central
>Europe have, in spite of massive lobbying by D. Aaron, adopted
>laws on data protection and privacy since they do not want
>endanger their future participation in the EU.

These laws on "data protection and privacy" are in many ways laws _against_
privacy. After all, if data are actually private, the authorties won't see
any violations.

"We have to destroy privacy in order to protect privacy."

Let the war with the statists in Europe commence.

--Tim May

Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash.
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 18:49:52 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: An Appraisal of the Technologies of Political Control
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199810201019.GAA04985@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Theodor Schlickmann offered:

>http://www.europarl.eu.int/dg4/stoa/en/publi/166499/execsum.htm

This is a shortened version of an ATPC update over twice as long.

The full report was offered for a while by the Dutch newspaper
NRC Handelsblad but has since been replaced by the shorter
version. Why only the short version is being offered is not 
clear -- it addresses only the surveillance part of the full
report, ECHELON and the FBI/EU wiretapping deal. 

The report is controversial within EuroParl and the European
Commission and there may have  been a political decision
to focus on its most contentious aspects. 

Other sections update the full range of technologies for political 
control of the original report published in January 1998. (Note 
that EuroParl has still not made the orginal report available
online.)

The NRC Handelsblad reporter who got the full report from the 
author, the Omega Foundation, sent us a copy available at:

   http://jya.com/stoa-atpc-so.htm  (101K)

 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 20:42:58 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Another potential flaw in current economic theory... (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810201221.HAA09849@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 09:17:50 +0100
> From: Mok-Kong Shen 
> Subject: Re: Another potential flaw in current economic theory...

> I see there are lots of interesting discussions on economy recently
> on this list. But I miss stuffs relating to the currently existing
> crisis of the financial market, topics like causes of failure of 
> LTCM etc. etc.

All I've been discussing is a handful of thought on free-market economies
and human psychology. Haven't really touched the actual market issues
directly.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mok-Kong Shen 
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 16:01:03 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Another potential flaw in current economic theory...
In-Reply-To: <98Oct19.235259edt.42154@brickwall.ceddec.com>
Message-ID: <362C472E.60F73A1F@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



tzeruch@ceddec.com wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 6 Oct 1998, Jim Choate wrote:
> 
> > It occurs to me that there is another potential flaw in current economic
> > theory and business practice.

I see there are lots of interesting discussions on economy recently
on this list. But I miss stuffs relating to the currently existing
crisis of the financial market, topics like causes of failure of 
LTCM etc. etc.

M. K. Shen




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Shostack 
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 21:57:42 +0800
To: Vincent Cate 
Message-ID: <19981020091947.A29973@weathership.homeport.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



	I believe that the UN Universal Declaration of Human rights
includes the right to emmigrate without undue hardship.  I would
suggest contacting Amnesty International to complain about this
harrassment by the US government.

	Article 13, section 2, article 15, section 2.

http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html

On Mon, Oct 19, 1998 at 10:17:12PM -0400, Vincent Cate wrote:
| 
| My Barbados Embassy/Consulate contact Steve Steger (246) 228 4338 called
| me up and told me that the state department has not approved my
| renunciation - they say one of the forms the Barbados guys had me fill out
| is old.
| 
| For those just tuning in, I renounced my citizenship to be free of US laws
| on cryptography.
| 
| While I was at the Consulate they had me fill out a 1st set of forms, then
| said those were obsolete (a few years back) and after waiting around for
| hours they had me fill out a 2nd set of forms that they said was the
| current version.  I filled out and signed everything they gave me.  They
| then had an interview with several witnesses.  They took my US passport
| and gave me copies of the 2nd version of all the forms with my signatures
| and theirs on them. 
| 
| Now Steve says that I am supposed to travel down to Barbados again using
| up my time and my money because of their error to do a 3rd version of
| their forms. Both the time and the money make this a hardship.  They won't
| mail me this 3rd version of the forms and they won't pay for my trip (let
| alone time). 
| 
| It seems to me that since I told the New York times that I renounced my US
| citizenship, and they told the world, that it should be a done deal. Also,
| spending a day in the Consulate signing everything they gave me should be
| enough to do it.  And why is a form saying basically "I renounce my
| citizenship" that worked awhile back not effective today?
| 
| But most of all, the very idea that the US government has to give me
| permission to renounce my association with it seems totally wrong.  The
| people in the US are supposed to be free, not slaves or subjects.  Free
| means free to leave. 
| 
| Any advice?
| 
|    -- Vince
| 
| ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
|  Vincent Cate                           Offshore Information Services
|  Vince@Offshore.com.ai                  http://www.offshore.com.ai/
|  Anguilla, BWI                          http://www.offshore.com.ai/vince
| ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
| 
| You have to take life as it happens, but you should try to make it
| happen the way you want to take it.    - German Proverb
| 
| 

-- 
"It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once."
					               -Hume





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Burnes - Denver 
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 00:20:04 +0800
To: Adam Shostack 
Subject: Re: My citizenship renunciation made difficult
In-Reply-To: <19981020091947.A29973@weathership.homeport.org>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Tue, 20 Oct 1998, Adam Shostack wrote:

> Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 09:19:47 -0400
> From: Adam Shostack 
> To: Vincent Cate , cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
> Subject: Re: My citizenship renunciation made difficult
> 
> 	I believe that the UN Universal Declaration of Human rights
> includes the right to emmigrate without undue hardship.  I would
> suggest contacting Amnesty International to complain about this
> harrassment by the US government.
> 
> 	Article 13, section 2, article 15, section 2.
> 
> http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html
> 
My experience is that the US refers to the UN treaty when it
wants to expand its powers over us.  When it comes to 
protecting our rights, they probably blithefully ignore it.

Try applying many of those human rights protections to
the ChiComs and see what happens.

jim




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Theodor.SCHLICKMANN@BXL.DG13.cec.be
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 16:21:19 +0800
To: 
Subject: Re: EU Privacy Directive
In-Reply-To: <19981019195132.27759.rocketmail@send1e.yahoomail.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Those who are affected in the first place are US companies who
are used to collect and process personal data from their customers
without any embarrassment. They will be excluded from
the European market, if they do not follow European Data
Protection rules. 

Until now the US goverment has decided to leave this matter 
to self regulation. However, US industry did not manage to 
come up with an appropriate codex. If industry
does not comply until the end of the year, FTC promised that
they will introduce a bill at congress which will comply with
European data protection standards. On the other hand, the US did
not even manage to adopt the Guidelines on the Protection
of Privacy and Transborder Flow of Personal Data by OECD.
The discrepancy in the US system is exposed by the fact that
general laws for data protection and privacy were avoided in
favour of specific laws for single areas or techniques.

Other countries, in particular those in Eastern and Central
Europe have, in spite of massive lobbying by D. Aaron, adopted
laws on data protection and privacy since they do not want
endanger their future participation in the EU.

T. Schlickmann 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Theodor.SCHLICKMANN@BXL.DG13.cec.be
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 16:49:43 +0800
To: 
Subject: An Appraisal of the Technologies of Political Control
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



http://www.europarl.eu.int/dg4/stoa/en/publi/166499/execsum.htm




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Gillogly 
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 02:26:07 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Homophonic substitution [could you help.....]
Message-ID: <362CCCAC.94253462@acm.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Bernardo B. Terrado writes:
> It's about Homophonic  substitution and 
> map E to 17,19,23,47,64
> map A to 8,20,25,49
> map R to 1,29,65
> map T to 16,31,85
> but otherwise the ith letter maps to the 3ith letter
> MANY A SLIP TWIXT THE CUP AND THE LIP
> will become
> 3608397220543324451666246931852117066045253909162147332445
>
> My question is what/how did they represent the other letters like L (etc.)
> coz I've tried to map them and yet I still can't understand
> I even wrote A to Z then map them to 1 to 99, I still can't figure it out.

That's the "otherwise" rule right after the four "maps".  If the
2-digit number is divisible by 3 (like the first "36"), divide
it by 3 and count that many letters through the alphabet starting
with A.  The 12th letter (0-origin) is M, so 36 corresponds to M
and L corresponds to 33.

That particular example doesn't use the ciphertext space very efficiently:
only 41% of the available 2-digit numbers are used.  If you must use a
homophonic, I'd suggest a 100-letter pangram, which gives a reasonable
distribution of letters, full coverage of the alphabet, and some chance
of remembering the thing without carry incriminating documents.

-- 
	Jim Gillogly
	Sterday, 29 Winterfilth S.R. 1998, 17:38
	12.19.5.11.2, 13 Ik 15 Yax, Sixth Lord of Night




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Burnes - Denver 
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 01:36:00 +0800
To: Robert Hettinga 
Subject: Re: Dust off your anonymous voting protocols...
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Tue, 20 Oct 1998, Robert Hettinga wrote:

> Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 11:25:34 -0400
> From: Robert Hettinga 
> To: cryptography@c2.net, cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
> Subject: Dust off your anonymous voting protocols...
> 
> Now all we need is a modern-day Robbespierre?
> 
> I love the smell of mob rule in the morning?
> 
> Nawwwwww...
> 

I much prefer an electronic republic.

Enforced by order of magnitude cheaper digital cash backed by
whatever the market prefers.

Or as Bob H is so fond of inferring,

Real economics, like real physics, is not an option.

ignore them both at your own peril.

jim

too bad we don't have enough time to jumpstart it before
Y2K.  On the other hand maybe Y2K is the only thing that
will allow it.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "christian masson" 
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 02:40:51 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: NEWS
Message-ID: <19981020180832.12400.qmail@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





NEWS

http://www.ec-europe.org/Communication/Reports/Infra/Communications/GSM-Content-lang1.html

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 23:58:40 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Dust off your anonymous voting protocols...
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Now all we need is a modern-day Robbespierre?

I love the smell of mob rule in the morning?

Nawwwwww...

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga

--- begin forwarded text


X-Sender: massmail@css
Mime-Version: 1.0
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 10:46:02 -0600
To: rah@shipwright.com
From: cwheeler@activmedia.com
Subject: Will 'Net Ballots Supplant Congress?

          WILL DIRECT DEMOCRACY PRE-EMPT SOME OF CONGRESS'S POWER?
                 Questions Remain about Implementation

ActivMedia Research (http://www.activmedia.com) - Two of three Internet
afficionados think online elections are a good idea (66% to 33%). The same
proportion would like to be able to vote on ballot referenda and exercise
direct democracy via the 'Net (67%).

"Obviously, the technical ability to move toward direct democracy must be
accompanied by debate about its merits and what is an appropriate level of
technocratic and professional decision-making on our behalf," notes
ActivMedia's Director of Information Services Chris Anne Wheeler. "Some
laws are best implemented by professionals for the public good such as
environmental protection, national defense, and public welfare. But
virtually all online consumers polled in ActivMedia's FutureScapes agree
that a sunshine policy making legislative bills, voting records, and
budgets available online for public inspection would be a good idea (97%)."

-------------------------------------------------------------
                 CIVIC RESPONSIBILITIES ONLINE
                          (Good Idea)
                                  Total Sample  4+ Yrs Online
                                  ------------  -------------
Vote for elected officials              66%          71%
Vote on ballot referenda                67%          72%
Search bills, voting records, budgets   97%          98%
--------------------------------------------------------------
Source: FutureScapes Study, ActivMedia Research, (c) 1998


Survey respondents with 4+ years of online experience the greatest
propensity to want to vote online. As expected, younger (under 15) as well
as older (over 65) 'Netizens show a somewhat higher resistance to carrying
out civic responsibilities online. The conservatives in the Northeast show
a slightly greater resistance especially when it comes to voting for
elected officials (63%), but essentially the desire to vote online is
favored by the majority no matter their demographic background.

All across the country, websites are cropping up that help voters weed
through the oftentimes overwhelming amount of information on candidates and
issues. The greatest challenge for voters is tracking down objective
nonpartisan sources of candidate information. Trials of online voting are
scarce as policy-makers grapple with issues of fraud and security.


Data in this release is from ActivMedia Research's syndicated study
"FutureScapes: Refining 'Net Strategy for the 21st Century." The full study
of online habits and interests of 5,600 online citizens is available to
purchase for $2,995 (single copy) or $5,000 (multi-user site license).

ActivMedia Incorporated conducts custom and syndicated research that guides
businesses to profitable online positions. Since 1994, ActivMedia has been
detailing global 'Net trends and sector slices with a series of
quantitative research reports, market analyses and case studies. Insightful
analyses and accessible data support rational businesses decisions for
clients including Andersen Consulting, Cisco, IBM, Intel, Microsoft, Visa,
Yahoo and Ziff-Davis.

CONTACT INFORMATION
ActivMedia, Inc.
http://www.activmedia.com  (Research Home Page)
Email: research@activmedia.com
Harold Wolhandler, Vice President of Market Research
Chris Anne Wheeler, Director of Information Services
Tel: 800-639-9481, 603-924-9100
Fax: 603-924-2184

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Eric Seggebruch - NYC SE 
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 00:44:38 +0800
To: Blanc 
Subject: Re: My (Vince's) citizenship renunciation made difficult
In-Reply-To: <000701bdfbec$a511c220$588195cf@blanc>
Message-ID: <362CB592.B40A8AFF@east.sun.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Blanc,

	Sometimes the best advice is to play the game, get what you want and
let well enough alone.  The fact that they may choose to do nothing does
not mean that bucking the United States of America is a good idea. 
Follow the administrative procedures, leave your anger at home and if
you want to change the way things are, work to be a good example of why
libertarian values are morally correct.  

Eric S




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Theodor.SCHLICKMANN@BXL.DG13.cec.be
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 19:34:39 +0800
To: 
Subject: Re(2): An Appraisal of the Technologies of Political Control
In-Reply-To: <199810201019.GAA04985@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



For full report please contact

rholdsworth@europarl.eu.int




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 03:03:14 +0800
To: charrist@hotmail.com (Jason Winge)
Subject: Re: your mail
In-Reply-To: <19981020181936.20151.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <199810201831.NAA20214@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



there is no policy

just do not flood the list

igor

Jason Winge wrote:
> 
> Please send information on the policy of the list owner.
> 
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> 



	- Igor.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 05:52:52 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Privacy Under Threat
Message-ID: <199810202126.OAA13126@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Privacy Under Threat
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 02:37:56 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

   PRIVACY UNDER THREAT

     The Global Internet Liberty Campaign has released its latest survey of
privacy in 50 countries. It found that new technologies including the
Internet are increasingly eroding privacy rights, but there is a growing
trend towards privacy and data protection acts around the world. Over 40
countries are in the process of enacting such laws. See
http://www.gilc.org/privacy/survey/  


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 05:53:26 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Former FBI Workers File Whistleblower Suit
Message-ID: <199810202126.OAA13137@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Former FBI Workers File Whistleblower Suit
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 09:40:46 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  Washington Post
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPcap/1998-10/20/021r-102098-idx.html

Former FBI Workers File Whistleblower Suit
Three Say Legal Protections Not Enforced

By Michael Grunwald
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, October 20, 1998; Page A17 

Three former FBI employees sued the federal government yesterday,
alleging that President Clinton and Attorney General Janet Reno have failed
to enforce a 1989 law that protects whistleblowers who complain about
misconduct at the agency.

Former FBI agent Thomas M. Chamberlin, former FBI chemist Jorge L.
Villanueva and former FBI staffer Cheryl J. Whitehurst all allege that they
were fired or forced out of the bureau for reporting misconduct by their
colleagues. Whitehurst also contends she was harassed because she is
married to Frederic Whitehurst, a chemist whose allegations launched a
major investigation of the FBI laboratory.

Congress exempted the FBI, the CIA and the National Security Agency
from the Whistleblower Protection Act of 1989, which established a
government-wide Office of Special Counsel to investigate complaints of
retaliation against employees of most federal agencies. But a companion
law directed the president to set up a separate system to protect FBI
employees from reprisals, and in April 1997, after a lawsuit by Frederic
Whitehurst, Clinton issued a memorandum directing Reno to create it.

Justice Department officials are drafting new regulations that would
establish an office at the department to handle internal complaints about the
FBI. But after 18 months of work, the regulations are not ready.

"This is not a simple process, but the attorney general is taking it very
seriously," said Justice Department spokesman Bert Brandenburg. "When
we're done with this, there will be a structure that FBI whistleblowers can
turn to with confidence. . . . We're trying to set up something entirely new
here. It's not just add water and mix."

Brandenburg said the department expects to issue new regulations soon,
but said he could not be more specific. But David K. Colapinto, an
attorney for the three former FBI employees, said the government has
been promising those regulations for nine years.

"They keep telling us it's in the works, but they never produce any results,"
Colapinto said. "Without whistleblower protection for FBI employees,
there cannot be effective oversight of the FBI's activities."

The FBI declined comment, referring questions to Brandenburg.
According to recent testimony by Justice Department inspector general
Michael Bromwich, the FBI received 499 allegations of "serious
misconduct" from its employees last year and another 518 allegations of
"routine misconduct." But since the employees who made them were not
covered by the Whistleblower Protection Act, they had no guarantee that
they could appear before an administrative law judge if they believed they
were victims of retaliation, or that they would have access to documents
about their case during the discovery process.

Frederic Whitehurst, once the FBI's top expert in explosives residue
analysis, recently settled his own whistleblower lawsuit with the bureau for
about $1.65 million. Bromwich's massive investigation did not substantiate
all of Whitehurst's allegations, but it did reveal major shortcomings at the
FBI lab. 

Cheryl Whitehurst said she was retaliated against for her husband's
activities and for reporting the widespread use of bootlegged software on
FBI computers in violation of copyright laws. She said she quit her job
under duress last month.

Villanueva, who also worked in the laboratory, said he lost his job in
January because he refused to sign a petition supporting a supervisor who
had been criticized in Bromwich's report, and because he complained that
a colleague had forged a signature on a lab report.

Chamberlin said he was fired in 1994 after he gave confidential testimony
about wiretap violations by the FBI's Detroit field office, and then
complained that the subsequent FBI investigation of the alleged violations
had targeted him. 

 (c) Copyright 1998 The Washington Post Company
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 05:54:27 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Biometric Weekly: 10-19-98
Message-ID: <199810202126.OAA13148@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: Biometric Weekly 
Subject: IP: Biometric Weekly: 10-19-98
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 08:48:10 -0600
To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com

10-19-98

Welcome to "Biometric Weekly " - a weekly e-mail report on biometric
identification news - a service of the Biometric Digest.  "Biometric
Weekly" is distributed free of charge on Monday of each week.

............................................................................
....

Mentis Corp., a market research firm in Durham, N.C., says the biometric
market will total $100 million this year, a tiny fraction of the $100
billion spent on private security in the U.S. Yet Mentis predicts the
market will grow at a brisk 27% to 35% through 2000 as
pattern-recognition software improves, computers become better able to
handle the power-hungry biometric applications and prices fall.

............................................................................
....

Sonoma Resource Corp. has an agreement to acquire 45% of Biometric
identification Inc. . BII is an innovator in creating and applying
fingerprint authorization and verification technology.

............................................................................
....

Biometric Identification Inc. Chief Executive Officer Bob Kamm announced
his firm is collaborating with Key Source International to integrate Bio
ID silicon sensor fingerprint verification technology into Key Source
computer keyboards.

............................................................................
....

Biometric Identification Inc. announced the development and introduction
of prototypes for the first complete Biometric Fingerprint
Identification System that utilizes silicon sensor verification
technology.

............................................................................
....

SAFLINK Corporation, a wholly owned subsidiary of The National Registry
Inc. announced that it has licensed speech recognition and speaker
verification software technologies from Lernout & Hauspie Speech
Products N.V.

............................................................................
....

BERGDATA AG releases its new Fingerprint Software Developer's Kit .
Using this tool interested companies are able to develop and market
their own fingerprint based security applications.

............................................................................
....

Identix Inc. (ASE:IDX), a provider of live-scan and biometric
verification systems, announced the State of Wisconsin has chosen
Tacoma, Wash.-based
Sagem Morpho Inc. (Morpho), a subsidiary of Paris-based SAGEM SA, to
provide Identix TouchPrint 600(TM) live-scan systems and TouchPrint 602
card-scan systems for use by Wisconsin law enforcement agencies.

............................................................................
....

Philips Flat Display Systems (FDS), a division of Royal Philips
Electronics of the Netherlands, and Who? Vision Systems, Inc., a
developer of fingerprint biometric technologies and products, announced
they have partnered to develop and market a new line of flat fingerprint
sensors for an array of portable computing and consumer electronics
products.

............................................................................
....

T-NETIX, Inc. (Nasdaq: TNTX), a provider of specialized call processing
and fraud control software technologies, announced today it was awarded
a three-year contract, with an option for two additional years, for the
installation of its new Inmate Calling System to Bell Atlantic and AT&T
for the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.

............................................................................
....

Speech recognition took a small step forward last week when four
companies announced that they had formed a V-Commerce Alliance to
promote the technology for electronic commerce. Details of these four
companies will appear in the next printed edition of the "Biometric
Digest."

............................................................................
....

-Sylvan/Identix Fingerprinting Centers, a joint venture of Sylvan
Learning Systems Inc. (SLVN) and Identix Inc. (IDX), received a contract
from UAL Corp.'s (U) United Airlines unit to provide fingerprinting
services. Sylvan/Identix said United will use Identix's TouchPrint 600
live-scan units in screening applicants to meet U.S. Postal Service
requirements for background checks on employees who handle mail.

............................................................................
....

Printrak International Inc. (AFIS) received a contract valued at more
than $45 million to provide automated fingerprint technology to the
government of Argentina. The company said it expects to have the system
up and running in less than a year. Printrak will work with prime
contractor Siemens Nixdorf GmbH, a unit of Siemens AG, to fulfill the
contract

............................................................................
....

Identix Inc. said it has won a contract for over $1.2 million to supply
fingerprint identification equipment to the Internal Revenue Service.
ANADAC Inc., a subsidiary of Identix, will supply the IRS with the
TouchPrint 600 system which scans fingerprints automatically. The
systems are being installed at IRS service centers throughout the nation
to automate the fingerprinting process which is a major part of all IRS
employee background checks.

............................................................................
....

A service of the "Biometric Digest," a monthly newsletter with weekly
e-mail updates published by Biometric Digest, P.O. Box 510047, St.
Louis, MO  63151-0047.  Tel: (314) 892-8632.   Fax: (314) 487-5198.

"Biometric Digest" is an advertising-free technology newsletter
dedicated solely to biometric identification technology.  More
information on the above is provided in the printed copy of the
"Biometric Digest." You can obtain additional biometric information from
our web site at:  http://www.biodigest.com.

The annual subscription is $255 in the United States and $325 outside
the U.S. To subscribe, please send e-mail with your name, title, company
name and address, email address, telephone and  fax to -
wrogers@anet-stl.com. We will send you an invoice.

For information on Banking on Biometrics Conference on October 12-14,
1998, visit http://www.biodigest.com/conf98

If you should wish to discontinue the Biometric Weekly news service, you
can cancel automatically by sending a request direct to:
biodigest-request@anet-stl.com

In the BODY of the memo, type -
   unsubscribe biometrics
   end

Note: on a second line type "end."

..... or please press your REPLY button and send us a return e-mail
requesting removal.





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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 05:56:21 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Privacy Rules Send U.S. Firms Scrambling
Message-ID: <199810202126.OAA13159@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Privacy Rules Send U.S. Firms Scrambling
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 10:15:15 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  Washington Post
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/frompost/oct98/privacy20.htm

Privacy Rules Send U.S. Firms Scrambling 

By Robert O'Harrow Jr. 
Washington Post Staff Writer 
Tuesday, October 20, 1998; Page C1 

Business executives and government regulators have spent years noodling
about whether new rules are needed to protect an individual's right to
privacy in this information age. The European Union, by contrast, agreed
to "harmonize" its member states' tough privacy protections three years
ago, and regulations born of that agreement take effect next Monday, Oct.
26. 

That could be a big problem for many businesses on this side of the
Atlantic. Under the new rules, the EU's 15 member countries are obliged
to prohibit the transmission of names, addresses, ethnicity and other
personal information to any country that fails to provide adequate data
protection as defined under European law. European officials have said
repeatedly over the past year that the patchwork of privacy rules in the
U.S. may not meet their standards. 

Though no one expects the flow of information from Europe to stop
suddenly on Monday, anxiety about the new laws is growing because no
one is sure how they will be applied. Each country will have separate
privacy laws that cover the mandates of the EU directive, and all have
privacy agencies to oversee those laws. 

The kind of information covered by the regulations includes direct-mail
lists, hotel and travel reservations, medical and work records, orders for
products on the World Wide Web and a host of other data. 

Companies also will have to provide detailed disclosures to individuals
about how the data will be used and give those same individuals access to
the information to correct the data. 

To weigh the task at hand, consider that Citibank alone has 7.7 million
consumer accounts and about 9,000 employees in EU countries. 

"The scope is very broad," said Peter Swire, a law professor at Ohio
State University and co-author of "None of Your Business: World Data
Flows, Electronic Commerce, and the European Privacy Directive." 

"For major companies, there will be significant compliance issues," he
said. 

Thomas P. Vartanian, a D.C. lawyer and author of "21st Century Money,
Banking & Commerce," said the effects could be both sweeping and
quotidian. Consider the case of a German tourist who breaks a leg in New
York, he said. The tourist's health plan in Berlin may be unwilling or slow
to send medical records here. 

American companies also may be prohibited from transferring work
records of European employees. Moreover, direct marketers could face
sharp limitations on how they use lists of potential customers. 

Marketers, travel companies and other information-hungry firms in the
United States - from giant International Business Machines Corp. to
start-ups on the World Wide Web - are scrambling to assess what it
could mean for them. And government officials are meeting to head off
any potential crisis on Monday. 

"It holds the potential for leading to disruptions in the flow of data," said
David Aaron, undersecretary for international trade at the Department of
Commerce, who has been involved in talks with officials from the
European Commission. "This could have a major impact." 

The deadline has sharply etched differences in approaches to data
protection. Europeans consider information privacy a human right. Their
dreadful memories of how Nazi Germany used personal records in the
Holocaust played a role in development of the laws. In the United States,
industry and government officials have stubbornly resisted the regulation of
data collection, fearing restraints would stymie commerce and tread on the
First Amendment. 

Privacy advocates in Europe have made it clear they intend to press their
governments to be strict. A group called Privacy International has already
said it intends to monitor an array of U.S. and British companies, including
American Express Co., Citigroup, Microsoft Corp. and Visa
International. 

"Until there is some sense of certainty about how these rules are going to
apply, you're going to get what you always get with business uncertainty,
that is, you get delays and you get increased costs of doing business,"
Vartanian said. 

Charles Prescott, vice president of international business for the Direct
Marketing Association, agreed. "The uncertainty over how the directive
will be turned into local law is causing tremendous anxiety," said Prescott,
adding that hundreds of the group's U.S. members do extensive business
in Europe. 

In an effort to head off disruptions, Commerce Department officials have
been talking for months with counterparts in the European Commission,
the government body that helps coordinate regulations and policies that
affect all EU members. 

Those talks have eased fears of a sudden cutoff of data. Commission
officials said they are impressed by the Clinton administration's efforts to
highlight the importance of data protection and to press industry groups to
come up with a self-regulation framework to ensure privacy on the
Internet. 

"It's [in] nobody's interest, least of all ours, that we have a trade
dispute,"
said John F. Mogg, a director general of the European Commission, who
has been involved in talks with the Commerce Department's Aaron about
the matter. Mogg described the talks as "wholly constructive." 

Both Mogg and Aaron acknowledge, however, that significant differences
remain. Among the sticking points are provisions that give every citizen of
member countries the right to find out what information about them is in a
database and the power to correct mistakes. Few U.S. companies are
prepared to offer such access because of the costs involved. 

The directive also requires each outside country to have an independent
arbitrator to decide whether a company is being forthcoming about its
data. Mogg said that is "fundamental to us." But a system for such
accountability still does not exist in the U.S. Some countries also want
remedies to be available to citizens for violations. 

But officials say there are reasons for optimism. Many companies may be
able to meet the new guidelines by writing contracts that promise to
uphold key provisions, and by giving customers, employees and others
detailed disclosure statements about how their information will be used. 

A group called Privacy & American Business has worked with experts in
the United States and Europe to draft model contracts that would be
helpful, particularly for small and medium-size businesses that can't afford
to enter into lengthy negotiations. 

Companies also may be able to collect information from individuals who
give explicit consent, officials said. 

"The mood now is cautiously optimistic," said Harriet Pearson, director of
public affairs for IBM. Pearson said IBM has been working for more than
a year to prepare for the regulations and is in good shape to comply. But
she added that many questions remain unanswered for large and small
companies alike. "It's a very uncertain equation at this point," she said. 

 (c) Copyright 1998 The Washington Post Company
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 21:26:21 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday to Convicted Child Molester Gary Burnore
In-Reply-To: <199810140550.HAA15476@replay.com>
Message-ID: <199810201238.OAA24270@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Hackman  wrote:

> James howard wrote:
> 
> > > Did anyone remember to wish convicted child molester Gary Lee
> > > Burnore a happy 41st birthday on Tuesday?  I was just doing a net
> > > search and came across this excerpt taken from his info on the North
> > > Carolina registered sex offenders' website:
> > >
> > > >   Street: 4201 BLAND ROAD APT J
> > > >   City: RALEIGH State: NC Zip: 27609 County: WAKE
> > > >
> > > >   Race: W Sex: M Height: 5'08" Weight: 170 LBS. Hair: BRO Eyes: BLU
> > > >   Birth Date(s): 10-13-1957
> > >     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >
> > Why is it "Birth Date(s)"?  Is it possible to have more than one?
> 
> multiple alias ?

Since "Megan's law" where an effort has been made to warn residents
of a convicted child molester living in their neighborhood, I can
well imagine that many of them have resorted to using aliases.

Another possibility is that since so many of them have multiple
convictions on their rap sheets, and since the data entry operators
cannot always read an officer's handwriting, multiple *POSSIBLE*
birthdates for the same perp sometimes float around in the system.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: lcs Mixmaster Remailer 
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 02:13:09 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Another potential flaw in current economic theory...
Message-ID: <19981020174002.8373.qmail@nym.alias.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> I see there are lots of interesting discussions on economy recently
> on this list. But I miss stuffs relating to the currently existing
> crisis of the financial market, topics like causes of failure of 
> LTCM etc. etc.

Haven't we discused the failures of Little Timmy C. May enough?




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: postino.up.ac.za@toad.com
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 01:16:40 +0800
To: hacklist@hackers.co.za
Subject: [ZA-Hacklist] Web Servers
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Hi There,
this is an appeal
for help
WE are looking for someone to help us set up a remote
web server outside our network (internationally or therwise)
to experiment with running a web server through port 25 (SMTP) or 
port 110 (POP3). If you have the abilty to help us with this 
experiment it would be appreciated.
Contact us.
Any other comments appreciable too.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Blanc" 
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 09:56:08 +0800
To: 
Subject: RE: My (Vince's) citizenship renunciation made difficult
In-Reply-To: <362CB592.B40A8AFF@east.sun.com>
Message-ID: <000101bdfc93$c6846780$218195cf@blanc>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>From Eric S:

: 	Sometimes the best advice is to play the game, get what
: you want and let well enough alone.  The fact that they may choose to do
: nothing does not mean that bucking the United States of America is a good
idea.
: Follow the administrative procedures, leave your anger at home and if
: you want to change the way things are, work to be a good
: example of why libertarian values are morally correct.
..............................................


Eric, I appreciate your concern for my safety.    But if playing the game was
the right way to do things, the 'cypherpunks' would not exist, PGP would not
have been created or distributed, John Gilmore would not have constructed his
DES cracker, and Vince would not have left the country, or now be trying to
change citizenship.

I realize that Vince was looking for more practical advice than I offered; I
didn't really expect him to take those ideas seriously (and I suspect some of
these also crossed his mind).    Bucking the US govmt directly may not appear to
be the best idea, but it depends on one's circumstance:   a person should do
what they feel is possible and agreeable to them in dealing with nonsense,
whether it is filling out and signing forms of defection, or stocking up on guns
and bullets the way Tim May does.

In any case, being a good example of why libertarian values are morally correct
is not something I would ever do.   Individuals have a mind of their own, and I
expect them to use it, to decide for themselves which values they will support.
I feel no obligation to present demos, no vested interest in converting anyone
to any side of an issue.  I will argue for reason and facts and reality, but I
would leave an individual to face the consequences of their own choices.  What I
am motivated to do, is object to having to take the consequences of somebody
*else's* choices.

(And Soren:   integrity and morality are not incompatible; in fact, they
co-exist and where one is reduced, the other is also diminished).

    ..
Blanc




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: shadow 
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 08:27:06 +0800
To: "Bernardo B. Terrado" 
Subject: Re: desperate....
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <362D2291.2C22863F@tfs.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>Could you give any info about wireless transmission especifically
>satellite transmission.

>Thank you and I desperately need your help.

Well lets see, what kind of government budget are you working with or
are just indepentantly wealthy?

It takes lots o' money to get setup in satellite transmission unless you
just want to receive the info then that is as cheap as getting a used
dish and the equipment to go with it. If you plan to transmit, then the
good ol' boys of the FCC will want your money for a license. Then there
are zoning laws to check into, construction permits, concret to pour,
power for it, and oh a wife that will put up with it in the yard.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 08:26:41 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: SSZ - IRS update
Message-ID: <199810210013.TAA00301@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Hi,

Thought I'd drop a line about what's been going on around here for the last
few days....

The IRS and I have agreed upon an affadavit. I've now sent it off to them
and they will let me know if I still need to go to Seattle in Nov. for the
Grand Jury.

That's about it.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 09:47:33 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: desperate.... (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810210135.UAA00638@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 18:53:54 -0500
> From: shadow 
> Subject: Re: desperate....

> 
> >Could you give any info about wireless transmission especifically
> >satellite transmission.
> 
> >Thank you and I desperately need your help.
> 
> Well lets see, what kind of government budget are you working with or
> are just indepentantly wealthy?
> 
> It takes lots o' money to get setup in satellite transmission unless you
> just want to receive the info then that is as cheap as getting a used
> dish and the equipment to go with it. If you plan to transmit, then the
> good ol' boys of the FCC will want your money for a license. Then there
> are zoning laws to check into, construction permits, concret to pour,
> power for it, and oh a wife that will put up with it in the yard.

Wow, and all I have to do is setup my DirectPC dish and pay about $150/mo.
for 400K (max) down-link bandwidth, though I do need some mechanism to
transmit my data out, a regular modem works with the standard software.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 10:25:52 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: SSZ - IRS update (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810210216.VAA01037@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 21:26:29 -0400
> From: John Young 
> Subject: Re: SSZ - IRS update

> Okay, thanks for the update. Any chance that affidavit can 
> be shared? Or is there a sword over your head?
> 
> Not meaning to get in your affairs, just hoping for information.

Once I know that my part in the matter is concluded I'll scan and make
available the subpeona, the affadavit, & the RCMP photo of Toto that I was
asked to identify, but not to share around at this time. That won't occur
until I've either been released from the Grand Jury or appeared before them.
I will continue to make updates as events unfold provided they don't
conflict with any actions (or non-actions) that I've agreed to comply with.

> Can you tell more about the lack of support from Austin cpunks,
> any change, or are you left to fend for yourself?

Um, I would have to say that other than the one person who helped me obtain
a lawyer to review my subpeona and affadavit, another person apologized for
their oversight, I've basicaly received zero support. I've decided that
since the group is so apathetic about the entire set of issues relating to
cryptography, civil liberties, & economics I won't be hosting the webpage or
mailing list after Nov. 1, 1998. This bums me out more than I know how to
express, something like 4+ years worth of effort shot to shit. It has such
potential but will remain unfulfilled so long as members find the O'Henry
Pun-Off more important. This in no way will alter my continued support of the
CDR node I host. There has not been a single piece of discussion on the
Austin Cpunks mailing list itself other than my announcement that I was
ceasing support and 1 persons responce that they had no objections.

> Sorry to say the obvious, but watch your back. No not Adam,
> he's certifiably cuckoo, it's the reasonable people that scare me.
                                   ^
                                   supposedly

:)


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 09:50:42 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: CJustice
Message-ID: <199810210125.VAA19427@camel14.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



We got documents on CJ from the US District Court,Western 
WA, in Tacoma. Pretty skimpy but informative on why CJ has 
been held for two months since his arrest on August 18.

As noted earlier, CJ has been indicted, clubbed with a blunt 
instrument:

                          COUNT 1

  Beginning on or about June 23, 1997, and continuing through
  December 9, 1997, at Tacoma and elsewhere, within the Western
  District of Washington, CARL EDWARD JOHNSON, did threaten
  to kill certain federal law enforcement officers and judges
  of the United States, with intent to impeded, intimidate, or
  interfere with said officers and judges on account of their
  official duties.

  All in violation of Title 18, United States Code, Sections
  115(a)(1)(B).

  Dated September 30 1998.

The June 23 and December dates bracket the messages cited in
the complaint by Jeff Gordon, and discussed here. The grand
jury must have base its charge on Jeff's complaint for there's
no explication of the charges in the indictment. (See the complaint
at: http://jya.com/cejfiles.htm.)

On the date of the indictment a bench warrant was issued for 
CJ's arrest. It was returned on October 9 marked "returned 
unexcuted - warrant issued in error - per AUSA Robb 
London." CJ was in Springfield during this time.

There were two handwritten notes. 

One says: "Called Tucson - Have Mag case on 98-2824M. Undergoing 
psych eval. 8/26/98. 520-620-7200.

The other: "10/5/98. Per Tucson, Deft in Psych Eval. Unsure of
dates in order to figure Speedy Trail."

A Case Status form, dated September 22, 1998, notes that CJ is
in detention based on a District of Arizona order, with the
note, "8-18-98; now awaiting compentency evaluation and R40
hearing." At the bottom the form states "The estimated trial 
time is 4 trial days."

What's screwy about all this is that when the grand jury 
returned the indictment and a bench warrant was issued, CJ was 
in Springfield but the AUSA seemed not to know it, or didn't 
tell the magistrate who issued the bench warrant, although the 
notes in the case file clearly showed that this information had 
been recorded. Who knows what else the grand jury and judge was
told or not told by the US Attorneys and the IRS -- the public 
record tells naught.

And CJ's right to a speedy trial, though noted, is overridden 
by the prolonged psychological evaluation process, as well as
overlooked or ignored communications between WA and AZ.

And the buffoonish bench warrant? That appears to indicate 
incompetence in the US Attorney's office -- that's AUSA
Robb London in charge (not to slight Katrina Pflaumer, USA, 
and William Redkey, AUSA, who also signed the indictment).

And the four days for a trial for alleged murder attempts? Is 
this real? Or is this threat of quick vicious justice by biased 
attorneys with vengence in mind, coupled with the prolonged 
delay, a ploy to coerce CJ to plead?

Brings back memories of Jim Bell's punishment by delay, 
isolation, manipulation, change of jails, and coercion, with 
a plea bargain just to get the the psychological torture to 
stop.

Wonder if Jim and CJ are allowed to swap tips and tricks on 
surviving political imprisonment in the United States of 
America. Creative writing of text and music, lyrics for the
song of assassination politics by American Justice.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 09:50:37 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com
Subject: Re: SSZ - IRS update
In-Reply-To: <199810210013.TAA00301@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <199810210134.VAA10088@camel14.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Okay, thanks for the update. Any chance that affidavit can 
be shared? Or is there a sword over your head?

Not meaning to get in your affairs, just hoping for information.

Can you tell more about the lack of support from Austin cpunks,
any change, or are you left to fend for yourself?

Sorry to say the obvious, but watch your back. No not Adam,
he's certifiably cuckoo, it's the reasonable people that scare me.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 11:59:49 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: APM: A Meeting (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810210350.WAA01610@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 21:55:55 -0500
> From: "Mark P. Fister" 
> Subject: Re: APM: A Meeting

> So here goes:
> 
> A) Wayne, in order to constantly let everyone know how many are subscribed,
>    could you start an 'Administrivia' mailing which prefaces the subject line
>    with the number of people currently subscribed?  This is what Russ Cooper
>    does with the NTBugTraq mailing list. :)

Wayne doesn't set policy for SSZ. I must admit I'm at a loss as to why this
particular piece of info is the least bit interesting. While I have no
objections in principle somebody else will have to do the programming and
demonstrate it will work *before* it goes into place on SSZ. Wayne does have
permission to experiment on SSZ machines. The code must be stable *and*
fail-safe. Before it goes in it will be required to demonstrate various
failure modes.

>    flexible scripting engine accessing mongo data and displaying hip graphics
>    to the user through their favorite browser."  Check it out - you won't be
>    sorry.

Till you see the bill for supporting all those hip (sic) graphics and have
to spend the time responding to all the bitches about how long it takes for
end-users to get those pages to their machines.

I'd like to offer another operating paradigm for the list, leave all the
marketing bullshit elsewhere.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 07:02:32 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: lotus notes secure mail, help configuring
Message-ID: <199810202204.XAA14836@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Anyone conversant with configuring and using lotus notes and domino
mail server for email encryption?

I could use someone familiar with it to pick their brains on the
topic.

The purpose of this exercise is to find out the keys used in the lotus
notes export versions "international crypto" implementation
("differential key escrow" or whatever it's called -- the 40 bits
unescrowed, and 24 bits escrowed design).

First step is to get it to encrypt something.  I have a domino mail
server running, and the notes mail client, but am having difficulty
getting it to send encrypted mail.

Please email me.

Adam




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 07:07:12 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday to Convicted Child Molester Gary Burnore
In-Reply-To: <199810140550.HAA15476@replay.com>
Message-ID: <199810202216.AAA31152@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



gburnore@databasix.com (Gary L. Burnore) wrote:

> >Just because you're pissed that someone anonymously blew the whistle
> >on your pederasty in Santa Clara, CA by informing your victim's
> >mother and school officials is no reason for such ad hominem.
> 
> Hi ronnie.  Too bad you're still just making stuff up.  The above never
> happened.

So which was the lie?  This recent post of yours, or the previous
one where you claimed:

-> So now the cowards in Ronald Francis's corner (I'm outright expecting the
-> culprit to be ronald francis himself) have taken to sending email to
-> those who have names listed on databasix's web page.  Sending comments to
-> a 17 year old that they're going to tell her mother that she's having an
-> affair with me.  Telling her mother that I'm molesting her daughter.
                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
-> Having all sorts of fun.

If it didn't happen, why did you claim it did?  You are the one who
resorted to a PUBLIC post to whine about a PRIVATE e-mail not even
addressed to you.  And what's this about a DataBasix web page?  Were
you maintaining a kiddie porn site on all of your victims to trade
with fellow pedophiles?

Your own wording "Telling her mother that I'm molesting her
daughter" pretty much sums up the whistleblowing that occurred.  Why
else didn't the girl or her mother complain, instead of you?

> >You
> >were busted fair and square, and your own guilty plea sealed your
> >fate.
> 
> I didn't plead guilty, liar.  

No contest?  Insanity?

> >BTW, did you ever ask yourself how this "RFG" character would
> >have known that you were screwing your live-in girlfriend's daughter
> >behind her back, if he's "the one and only anonymous asshole"?
> 
> I wasn't screwing anyone.  I also wasn't living with anyone.  More lies on
> your part.  You never will get the facts straight.

Not even the $30K in legal fees you spent could refute those facts
upon which you were convicted.  It's a little too late to pretend
you were innocent.  Or are you going to fall back on Camille Klein's
pitiful tale of how your victim allegedly tried to "rape" you?




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 07:01:57 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday to Convicted Child Molester Gary Burnore
In-Reply-To: <199810140550.HAA15476@replay.com>
Message-ID: <199810202220.AAA31586@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



gburnore@databasix.com (Gary L. Burnore) wrote:

> >fees and PLED GUILTY,
>
> Ronald Guimlette, please correct your lies.  I didn't plead guilty.

If you're going to smear him you should at least learn to spell
"Guilmette".  So what was your plea?  No contest?

> >Real comforting to the folks with kids living on Bland Road and the
> >immediate vicinity...
> 
> More lies Ronald.  Can't see to well from CA, eh?

How can an opinion be a "lie"?  Sarcasm is lost on perverts like
you, I guess.  If you're saying that your neighbors welcome convicted
sex offenders in their neighborhood, then you and they deserve each
other.

> >> There are a few
> >> that post here that really don't like him, though, and it seems they
> >> will do most anything to keep this thread alive.
> >
> >What?  Someone doesn't like child molesters?  Imagine that!
> 
> There are no child molesters posting here.  You're lying again.

That was a self-contradictory statement, since you, a convicted
child molester, just posted.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 07:14:21 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199810202235.AAA00469@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 10:41 AM 10/20/98 -0500, Bauer, Michael (C)(STP) wrote:
>Anyone got any crypanalytical dirt on PC-Anywhere?  Is its cryptosystem any
>good, or are they doing something stupid like XOR?
>

Hey, fuck you.

-The Vernam Cipher Society-








  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Soren 
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 01:15:03 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: My (Vince's) citizenship renunciation made difficult
In-Reply-To: <000701bdfbec$a511c220$588195cf@blanc>
Message-ID: <362D65B1.51F36124@workmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/html




Eric Seggebruch - NYC SE wrote:
Blanc,
        Sometimes the best advice
is to play the game, get what you want and
let well enough alone.  The fact that they may choose to do nothing
does
not mean that bucking the United States of America is a good idea.
Follow the administrative procedures, leave your anger at home and
if
you want to change the way things are, work to be a good example of
why
libertarian values are morally correct.
 
Last I heard, libertarianism stood for principle (a currency much devalued
these days) and its handmaiden integrity -- not for morality.
Lets leave the moral high ground to those who would use it to coerce
others.
 



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jan Dobrucki 
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 08:26:25 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Dorkslayers..
In-Reply-To: <01BDFBA8.6C12F0A0@noc.mfn.org>
Message-ID: <362D3196.10F114B0@qmail.pjwstk.waw.pl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Who the heck are the Dork Slayers? Do they use guns/ swords/
explosives/ other deadly stuff ?? to eliminate Dorks? ;-)
Or maybe they should be called, "The Slayers of Dork Inc."... :-)

Later,
Jan Dobrucki




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: James Morris 
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 01:07:56 +0800
To: "Bernardo B. Terrado" 
Subject: Re: desperate....
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Wed, 7 Oct 1998, Bernardo B. Terrado wrote:

> Could you give any info about wireless transmission especifically 
> satellite transmission.
>  
> Thank you and I desperately need your help.

Can you be more specific?

- James.
--
James Morris
          





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 19:54:42 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Status of GSM Crypto Attacks
Message-ID: <199810211113.HAA20775@camel7.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Forward from anonymous:

Wed, 21 Oct 98

An engineer at a US wireless telecom and a contributor to 
Cryptologia--has asked me to look into the present status 
of attacks on the GSM encryption schemes:  comp128 (a3a8 
authentication, etc.) and, more importantly, the A5.1 and 
A5.2  voice/data encryption algorithms.

After searching the web, I see that you have similar 
interests in this matter.  I've already sent off inquiries 
to some of the researchers in this area--Ross Anderson, 
Simon Shepherd and the two Berkeley students (Goldberg and 
Wagner).  So far, I've only heard back from Wagner.  Do you 
have anything interesting to say about this matter--has 
anything happened since the Spring?  Has a consensus been 
reached on some of the issues discussed in the 
 document?

I'm trying to get a handle on the present state-of-the art:  
Where do things presently stand--who is doing the work and 
what, if anything, has been verified/demonstrated?   Has A5 
been cracked?   What can be said about the possibility of 
intercepting and decoding an on-air conversation?






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 20:48:37 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Forwarded mail...
Message-ID: <199810211231.HAA02648@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: Theodor.SCHLICKMANN@BXL.DG13.cec.be
> Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 10:12:37 +0200
> Subject: Re: "We have to destroy privacy in order to protect privacy"

> What is privacy?

The ability to store or archive material without worry of it being
distributed without prior permission.

The right to tell somebody you won't answer their question or include them
in the dicussion, to the extend of asking them to go someplace else so they
can't overhear or grab the dialogue.

Ultimately it's a societal behavior that is exemplified by citizens not
obtaining material that is relevant or related to you without involving you
from the beginning.

> Although this is a matter of law, only political 
> strategies are executed.

Law == Politics

> Protection of privacy turns out to be the most important 
> human rights issue in this information technology age.

Um, actualy Writ of Habeas Corpus is the most important right. Privacy and
everything else are moot if your sitting in a jail cell with no hope of
release or trial.

> Following several articles in American newspapers, 
> privacy at the work place is in great danger. 

There isn't any privacy at the workspace. When you hire on to an employer
*AND* agree to work on their premises you voluntarily give this up. It is
the same situation as if you hire a kiddy-watcher and you video-tape the
activity for your protection. If you really want privacy protection in the
workplace then insist that detailed limits are included in any contract
(pretty much unheard of).


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 21:40:13 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: UK police chase crooks on CCTV (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810211322.IAA03036@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 14:21:04 +0200
> From: Tim Griffiths 
> Subject: UK police chase crooks on CCTV

> Civil liberties groups said they were alarmed by the new system, but
> police defended its use.
> 
> ``The only people entered on to the system will be convicted criminals
> who, through our intelligence, we believe are habitually committing
> crimes in the area,'' The Daily Mail quoted police Chief Superintendent
> Dave Armond as saying. ``If people are not committing crime they have
> nothing to fear, but if they are among the small minority who are, the
> message is, 'We are watching out for you.'''
> 
> The newspaper reported that police initially will use the system to
> concentrate on catching robbery suspects. In the future, however, it

Excuse me....

Since when does 'suspected of' equate to 'convicted criminal'?

Also, in order to wath you (sic) they have to watch everyone - in effect
guilty until proven innocent by the computer software.

What sort of civil recovery are provided for the inevitable software errors?
I bet nadda, and that's wrong too.

This is Big Brother Spin Doctor BULLSHIT.

We need a law or court ruling pretty quickly in the US that sets the
standard that a group of people have no more or less rights than an
individual. This will required LEA's to provide probable cause prior to any
actions against groups of people (such as this).

If they can't audio tape me, or seize my papers and correspondences without
a warrant then they bloody well can't video me without a warrant either
,within the context of criminal proceedings.

Does anyone know if *any* PAC/SIG/whatever has this as their main political
agenda?

 -------------------------------------------------------------------------

On a similar note, here in Austin they are finishing up with putting
hundreds of cameras around town. It isn't long before these sorts of social
theory X'ers get their teeth in the shank of American society.

We've got(!) to put a stop to this sort of stuff. The law should basicaly ok
the use of cameras for vehicular traffic control (this does NOT include
execution of speeding infractions and such), this means no police or other
LEA's may be involved or view the tapes *without* a warrant. The operators
and support personnel should be required to abide by a strict non-disclosure
agreement as well. If they notice a wreck or whatever they should notify the
relevant emergency personel and *IF* the police serve a warrent only then
turn over the tape.

This is a perfect example of why I, personaly, believe that a polycratic
democracy is the only workable kind in the real world.

The 'seperate but equal' doctrine should effect every aspect of a democratic
society.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 21:44:35 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Women cannot commit rape? (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810211325.IAA03084@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 14:19:57 +0200
> From: Tim Griffiths 
> Subject: Women cannot commit rape?

> French Supreme Court rules that women cannot commit rape

> "The material element of the crime of rape is only realized if the
> perpetrator
> commits the act of sexual penetration on the person of the victim," it
> said in
> its judgment.

Can a man get a STD from a women? Do men not have the same civil liberties
and concepts of personal privacy that women do? Are we now faced with the
ultimate in sex discrimination - having two sets of laws that are specific
to sex?

Rape is about an invasion of personal physical privacy.

More big brother spin doctor bullshit.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Brown, R Ken" 
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 22:03:49 +0800
To: griffith@wis.weizmann.ac.il>
Subject: RE: UK police chase crooks on CCTV
Message-ID: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F8505@MSX11002>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> Tim Griffiths[SMTP:griffith@wis.weizmann.ac.il] forwarded (yet
> another) report on the Mandrake facial recognition system, this time
> from  http://search.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/searches/mainsrch.htm#ap
> 
> 
[...snip...]

> CCTV's developer, Software and Systems International, says 
> the system is accurate enough to discern people hiding 
> behind make-up or eye glasses. And growing a beard won't
> help either, the company says.

[...snip...]

According to SSI at  http://www.ssi-ltd.co.uk/latenews.htm#Law  the
program uses the position of facial features to recognise you.  

> Even if offenders try to disguise their appearance,
>  say S&SI, the system will still identify them, as it is
>  based on recognising facial structure, such as the
>  spacing between the eyes, nose and mouth. It takes 
> into account, and disregards, variations of head 
> orientation, lighting conditions, skin colour, 
> make-up, facial expression, facial hair, spectacles
>  and ageing. 

So presumably can be confused by obscuring the exact postion of features
- such as a dense  moustache that covers the mouth, or the presence or
absence of  a hairstyle that seems to change the shape of the head.  I
shave my head - if I grew back some "big hair", or wore a wig, would the
sytem be able to tell where the top of my skull was?  Maybe a full beard
would change the apparent width of the whole head. Maybe dark glasses
would obscure the exact position of the eyes.

As we all know criminals are too stupid to use strong cryptography
without an export license, there is no way any of them would think of
novel high-tech solutions such as wearing a hat or a scarf.

Just to add some irony, the main  line used to sell this to the British
public is control of football (soccer) "hooligans". Like  child
pornography or the "war on drugs", football  fans are easy target for
repressive measures. No respectable citizen wants to be associated with
the "trouble makers". And of course, football fans are notorious for not
wearing scarves or hats, aren't they :-)

Ken Brown (& not his bosses)




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 01:26:55 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: RE: UK police chase crooks on CCTV (fwd)
Message-ID: <362E110F.30CA@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



The toys are just getting too easy to deploy. Imaging, compression,
networking, mass storage etc...Fucking engineers, oops!

A few fronts: 

Political - this is the preferable way of dealing with this crap but
also the most disturbing because many of those in power seem to think
snooping is a wonderful idea. Tough to convince them that a little
uncertainty is a *good* thing.

Technical:

Briefcase-sized EMP - fun idea but I don't know how to make it workable.

HV generator on the end of a stick - not too tough.

High power LASER to burn out CCDs - buy anonymously, nice, works from a
safe distance.

What's needed are moles to leak detailed info on systems as they're
planned and installed. Then it would be easy to determine the weak
points. If each camera had to be guarded there would be a *huge* problem
just keeping the systems alive. 

Mike




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Theodor.SCHLICKMANN@BXL.DG13.cec.be
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 17:01:15 +0800
To: 
Subject: Re: "We have to destroy privacy in order to protect privacy"
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



What is privacy?

Just now the political representatives show the world 
how protection of privacy looks like in the world's 
leading Nation. Victim is the President himself who 
unwillingly has become a benchmark case because of 
his sexual affairs.

Although this is a matter of law, only political 
strategies are executed.

Protection of privacy turns out to be the most important 
human rights issue in this information technology age.

Definition of privacy is difficult. It includes not only 
data protection; it draws a line at the border where a 
society is allowed to get concerned about an individual.

Louis Brandeis, Member of the Supreme Court, said in 1890: 
The right for privacy is the right for an individual to 
live for him/her-self. Protection of privacy includes 
protection of private information, safety, protection 
of communication, and protection of territory (house, 
public space, and work place).

Following several articles in American newspapers, 
privacy at the work place is in great danger. 
Surveillance is very often made part of the contract 
with the employer. A Report by the American Management 
Association says that two thirds of employers are 
controlling emails and other work at the computer, 
and are tapping phone calls. Surveillance cameras 
are used, e.g., to trace movements of employees in 
company buildings; regular tests for drugs, requests 
for intimate information and various psychological 
tests are performed.

Many people in the US may believe this is normal. 
Who tells them that this a violation of privacy 
rights ? The government ? Bill Gates ? Tim May ? 

Tim May wrote:
>To be more concrete, if I compile lists of who is writing articles on
>Usenet, I have no obligation to either purge these records or 
>show them to others or not sell them or _anything_. The 
>government cannot get at myrecords except under limited 
>situations.

If companies are using personal data, which they have 
gathered from open sources, without explicit permission 
for other purposes than in direct business with that 
person, then they are violating data protection rules. 
If the sources are not open, then they are also violating 
fair competition rules which may be considered to be 
criminal in some countries.

Tim May wrote:
>Europe's "data privacy laws," which I have been critical of for 
>more than ten years now, are an abomination. While the laws 
>sound well-intentioned, they effectively give the state the power 
>to sift through filing cabinets and disk drives looking for violations.

Sifting through filing cabinets is also clearly a violation 
of privacy rights. However, does it mean that privacy is 
uncontrollable?  Alternatively, the only protection is 
not to put any personal data on a network. Use your 
pseudonym instead. Strong encryption does not help, 
because the receiver side may not respect your privacy.


Theodor Schlickmann




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mok-Kong Shen 
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 18:01:35 +0800
To: X1 
Subject: Re: PRNGs and testers.
In-Reply-To: <19981021151835.A26267@krdl.org.sg>
Message-ID: <362DB7C9.F0DE3296@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



X1 wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> A few questions on Pseudo Random Number Generators...
> 
> 1. Which are the best software PRNG's available today?

Not answerable.  (Reason: substitute car, HIFI, medical doctor, etc. 
for 'software PRNG').

> 
> 2. Are there any software implementations to test the randomness of a
>    PRNG ? I've looked at Diehard - is there anything else?

There are tests that one can implement with reasonable effort.
A test relevant in cryptology is Maurer's test. See Menezes et al.,
Handbook of Applied Cryptography.

M. K. Shen




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Joseph 'Anonymous' Howe" 
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 23:29:10 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: cypherpunks archives, books
Message-ID: <199810211455.LAA25547@privacy.nb.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Could someone post the address of the current
cypherpunks archives again? Everything seems
to be missing or out of date.

Also, what's the name of that book... The Crystal Palace?
Maybe I'm confused.

Thanks for the info.

--THE LIE




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 02:21:13 +0800
To: Michael Motyka 
Subject: RE: UK police chase crooks on CCTV (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <362E110F.30CA@lsil.com>
Message-ID: <199810211803.NAA010.65@geiger.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In <362E110F.30CA@lsil.com>, on 10/21/98 
   at 09:51 AM, Michael Motyka  said:


>The toys are just getting too easy to deploy. Imaging, compression,
>networking, mass storage etc...Fucking engineers, oops!

>A few fronts: 

>Political - this is the preferable way of dealing with this crap but also
>the most disturbing because many of those in power seem to think snooping
>is a wonderful idea. Tough to convince them that a little uncertainty is
>a *good* thing.

>Technical:

>Briefcase-sized EMP - fun idea but I don't know how to make it workable.

>HV generator on the end of a stick - not too tough.

>High power LASER to burn out CCDs - buy anonymously, nice, works from a
>safe distance.

>What's needed are moles to leak detailed info on systems as they're
>planned and installed. Then it would be easy to determine the weak
>points. If each camera had to be guarded there would be a *huge* problem
>just keeping the systems alive. 

Well probably the most effective way is to just take out the command and
control center. Even this would only be temporary as the government would
just keep spending more tax money to replace everything and add more
security.

What we need is a mechanism to punish the politicians who go down the Big
Brother path *and* the companies who are making big profits helping them. 

IMHO the UK, and the rest of Europe, is a lost cause, it's sheeple are too
brainwashed (FWIW the US is not far behind). The wall in Berlin did not
come down because Communism is dead, it came down because the Communist
were in control on both sides. :(

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: Friends don't let friends use Windows.

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Version: 2.6.3a-sha1
Charset: cp850
Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000

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03kn4/mkJ4MhYHKqx805lTQll/fVgdq7uePC6vDeJYnKHHRxXEiWDkX+KQz3IFdw
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Bernardo B. Terrado" 
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 14:09:29 +0800
To: coderpunks@toad.com
Subject: ignore my mail coz I'm through with it
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



From: "Bernardo B. Terrado" 
To: cypherpunks@toad.com, coderpunks@toad.com
Subject: desperate....


 
Could you give any info about wireless transmission especifically 
satellite transmission.
 
Thank you and I desperately need your help.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Rabid Wombat 
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 23:14:30 +0800
To: Mok-Kong Shen 
Subject: Re: Break DES Fast!
In-Reply-To: <36309E91.6A5F6688@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





On Fri, 23 Oct 1998, Mok-Kong Shen wrote:

> Peter Gutmann wrote:
> > 
> > Dear Friend,
> > 
> > My name is Dave Rhodes.  In 1997 my cipher designs had all been broken, my
> 
> I don't know the English term but in my native language what is
> described is call 'chaining letters', supposed to be a method to
> become rich very rapidly. That was illegal, though.
> 
> M. K. Shen
> 
> 

I don't know what your native language is, but in english, what is 
described is known as a joke. ROFLMAO.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim Griffiths 
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 20:57:00 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Women cannot commit rape?
Message-ID: <362DD16D.2B1A6570@wis.weizmann.ac.il>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



French Supreme Court rules that women cannot commit rape

Copyright (c) 1998 Nando.net
Copyright (c) 1998 Reuters News Service

PARIS (October 21, 1998 06:38 a.m. EDT http://www.nandotimes.com) -
France's
Supreme Court ruled on Wednesday that women are unable to commit the
crime of
rape because they cannot sexually penetrate men.

"The material element of the crime of rape is only realized if the
perpetrator
commits the act of sexual penetration on the person of the victim," it
said in
its judgment.

The court, known as the Cour de Cassation, overturned a lower court
ruling
that Catherine Maillard could be tried for rape on charges of forcing
her
underage stepson to have sex with her repeatedly between 1986 and 1992.

Maillard could only be tried for "aggravated sexual aggression" against
the
boy, while his father Michel Deloisy had to be tried for "moral
abandonment of
a child" instead of the original charge of "complicity in aggravated
rape,"
the court said.

With its judgment, the court seemed to contradict an earlier ruling it
issued
in December 1997 saying that forcing someone to perform oral sex act was
legally equivalent to rape.


--
Tim Griffiths                   griffith@wis.weizmann.ac.il
Center for Submicron Research   http://tim01.ex.ac.uk
Weizmann Institute of Science   (972)-8-934-2736
Rehovot 76100 Israel
PGP Public key available - finger tim@tim01.ex.ac.uk

The real value lies not in what I say or do,
but in your reaction to it.  -DF




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim Griffiths 
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 21:01:34 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: UK police chase crooks on CCTV
Message-ID: <362DD1B0.4EF8AE03@wis.weizmann.ac.il>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



The Associated Press via The Wash. Post, Oct 17, 1998
http://search.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/searches/mainsrch.htm#ap

Chasing Crooks on Closed Circuit TV
http://search.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WAPO/19981017/V000263-101798-idx
.ht ml


LONDON (AP) -- An ``intelligent'' computer system that uses closed
circuit television to match faces in a crowd to mug shots of known
criminals is likely to become London's latest weapon against crime.

Scotland Yard and a local council have installed the $100,000 CCTV
system on a trial basis in Newham, a poor district in London's East End.

Newspapers reported Thursday that the computer system, called Mandrake,
is linked to 144 CCTVs in Newham's shopping centers, railway stations
and car parks and can scan up to 150 faces at a time and compare them
with a database of criminals stored on a computer at the council's
headquarters.

If there is a match between a face in the crowd and a known criminal,
the computer alerts a monitoring team in the town hall, who in turn
alert the police.

Civil liberties groups said they were alarmed by the new system, but
police defended its use.

``The only people entered on to the system will be convicted criminals
who, through our intelligence, we believe are habitually committing
crimes in the area,'' The Daily Mail quoted police Chief Superintendent
Dave Armond as saying. ``If people are not committing crime they have
nothing to fear, but if they are among the small minority who are, the
message is, 'We are watching out for you.'''

The newspaper reported that police initially will use the system to
concentrate on catching robbery suspects. In the future, however, it
could be used to search crowds for hooligans who stir up trouble at
soccer matches.

CCTV's developer, Software and Systems International, says the system is
accurate enough to discern people hiding behind make-up or eye glasses.
And growing a beard won't help either, the company says.

Britain has 150,000 close circuit television cameras. While most Britons
appear happy the devices are being used to tackle crime, civil liberties
groups oppose both the cameras and the facial matching.

``The accuracy of facial mapping like this is limited. You only need a
handful of photographs of celebrities to see how different the same
people can look in different pictures,'' the Mail quoted Liz Parratt,
spokeswoman for Liberty, a civil rights group, as saying. ``Even if you
did have a system which worked, it would have to be regulated very
carefully to protect people's privacy.''

 \ Copyright 1998 The Associated Press


--
Tim Griffiths                   griffith@wis.weizmann.ac.il
Center for Submicron Research   http://tim01.ex.ac.uk
Weizmann Institute of Science   (972)-8-934-2736
Rehovot 76100 Israel
PGP Public key available - finger tim@tim01.ex.ac.uk

The real value lies not in what I say or do,
but in your reaction to it.  -DF




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: X1 
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 15:50:57 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: PRNGs and testers.
Message-ID: <19981021151835.A26267@krdl.org.sg>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Hi,

A few questions on Pseudo Random Number Generators...

1. Which are the best software PRNG's available today? 

2. Are there any software implementations to test the randomness of a
   PRNG ? I've looked at Diehard - is there anything else?

Thanks,
R Sriram.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 00:39:56 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: UK police chase crooks on CCTV
In-Reply-To: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F8505@MSX11002>
Message-ID: <199810211559.RAA22447@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



  >> ...the system...is based on recognising facial structure

  > Maybe a full beard would change the apparent width of the whole
  > head...

You mean
   "When beards are outlawed, only outlaws will have beards." ?

-- FuzzyMonger




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Soren 
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 18:48:54 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: My (Vince's) citizenship renunciation made difficult
In-Reply-To: <000101bdfc93$c6846780$218195cf@blanc>
Message-ID: <362E5F5F.EDBF2695@workmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/html




 
Blanc wrote:
(And Soren:   integrity and morality are
not incompatible; in fact, they
co-exist and where one is reduced, the other is also diminished).
 
"How I found Freedom in an Unfree World -- Harry Browne", puts it more
succinctly than I.  I think this was a case of using morality in place
of ethics.  Anyone got a Webster's or Oxford around?
 



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 09:08:55 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: The Trouble With Harry (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810220056.TAA05317@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: 22 Oct 1998 00:20:03 -0000
> From: HyperReal-Anon 
> Subject: The Trouble With Harry

> John Young :
> 
> >Can you tell more about the lack of support from Austin cpunks,
> >any change, or are you left to fend for yourself?
> 
> tis is why i am not a cypherpunk. you people have
> no care for your fellow man! first jim bell, then
> toto, now choate, soon youll all be gone....

Hold on hear a second, let's get the facts straight.

I am NOT being accussed of anything. I have been asked to act as a witness
for the prosecution (not explicitly the target thereof). Unfortunately for
the prosecutions case, I'm not a witness to anything relevant. If I were
aware of some kook running around building bombs with the intention of using
them on people, their property, or animals I'd be the first to turn their
nutty butts in.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Joseph 'Anonymous' Howe" 
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 09:27:23 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: The latest news from Toto
Message-ID: <199810220055.VAA32173@privacy.nb.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I got a letter from Toto today, and he's doing well. Or at least as well
as one can under his circumstances.

He has a few friendly requests, though, which I'm not necessarily in any
position to respond to.

* Does anyone have an RSA-in-perl t-shirt (or sweatshirt, or whatever)
to spare? He wants the Well Dressed CypherPunk Defendant Look (TM) in
court.

* Declan McCullagh: Congratulations, you've been added to the visitors'
list.

* Oh, yeah! If someone could mail me copies of the FPP stuff, it would be
nice, since the Shrink Rapper has copies and I don't. (The IRS is sending
it to him as part of his punishment for laughing at my jokes...)

If anyone knows what he's referring to, reply to the cpunks list and I'll
get in touch personally, or just mail it to him directly.


MailMonger




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 12:14:42 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: The latest news from Toto
In-Reply-To: <199810220055.VAA32173@privacy.nb.ca>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 8:55 PM -0400 on 10/21/98, Joseph 'Anonymous' Howe wrote:


> * Declan McCullagh: Congratulations, you've been added to the visitors'
> list.

Walk softly and carry a big printing press, Declan. God speed.

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Carlos Macedo Gomes 
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 11:31:35 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com
Subject: FW: rules of engagement (fwd)
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> From:	Adam Back [SMTP:aba@dcs.ex.ac.uk]
> Clearly I think one should be able to say wtf one wants to, and in
> general I endeavor to do just that.  But I am suggesting that
> cypherpunks individually stear clear of grey areas, such as say
> creative tax minimisation, Duncan Frissel style "it's not illegal to
> do blah with social security numbers", Tim May style "I've got X
> number of now illegal armament Y", (unless you also have the money for
> good lawyers) and so on, whether technically legal or not, as one
> would be taking above average risks in doing so, because governments
> are watching this list, and a number of it's subscribers.

I agree with Adam on sticking to legally achievable goals-- or at least
legally achievable without needing unlimited funds to feed the army 
of lawyers that will be needed to keep you and your cohorts out of prison.
To me that would include the realm of projects related to strong crypto,
electronic cash, anonymity and privacy-- vague as those topics may be.

That said... I was at the meeting in July with Jim when Toto showed up.
It was my first attendance at an Austin Cpunk meeting and I was looking
forward to working on some great projects with some hopefully great
local folks.  To me Toto showing up was simply a very interesting road
sign (or graffiti) on the path to achieving pragmatic, long-living
"cypherpunks write code" projects the first of which was to be
the Crypto Conference that we were hoping to host and that we were
discussing at that meeting with members of EF Texas.  BTW: Whatever
happended to the Classified Ad project??

Jim fought for that but it fell apart when the focus of the conference was 
was moved by another local group to a non-crypto topic.  We took the
synergies from the remains of conference project and started work on a
Cypherpunks meta-web-archive this time with a joint effort by myself, some
fellow programmers and the Austin Cpunks.  This project as well started
strong out of the gates but lost steam around the first corner.  In part
it was due to looming, work related project deadlines-- as far as I
know none involved in the local projects are retired, Austin hitech
fatcats (yet).  But mostly this last project and the local meetings
halted I think due to Jim's relating to the group the events that were
happening with him regarding Toto.

I think the really sad thing here is not that we didn't rise up as a
group to stop the government's inquiries of Jim with regards to the
Toto case but simply that we individually offered very limited support
directly to Jim himself.  And from speaking with Jim and reading his
emails it appears that the support was in the form of a referral to
lawyers (who apparently were not ready to do any _pro bono_ work) and an
apology from myself for lack of offer of assistance when it became obvious
to me that the long standing local group had not offered assistance.

I think Jim did a great job with the local group and it's truly a sad
indictment against the relationships we had (or thought we had) in the
group where our "sponsor" is put in a spotlight for acting as a primary
for the group that we're supposedly active in and there's no show of
support...  Again, not with intent to support Toto, or thwart government
inquiries, but just to check to see how Jim's doing under the strain of
possible government scrutiny.

Anyhow the local group does look to be dead.  I'd still like to get group
coding projects and the like accomplished while I'm in Austin and suspect
they will still happen and hopefully with Jim and some of the other local
folks involved.  But I don't think there will be an "Austin Cpunk" group
after this.  I'd be glad to have someone prove me wrong.

That's my $0.02 on the events of the past few months.... Now back to
reality.

waves,
C.G.

--
Carlos Macedo Gomes
gomes@navigo.com
a Navigo farmer




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Kevin Elliott 
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 12:11:39 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com
Subject: Re: Women cannot commit rape?
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>French Supreme Court rules that women cannot commit rape
>
>Copyright (c) 1998 Nando.net
>Copyright (c) 1998 Reuters News Service
>
>PARIS (October 21, 1998 06:38 a.m. EDT http://www.nandotimes.com) -
>France's
>Supreme Court ruled on Wednesday that women are unable to commit the
>crime of
>rape because they cannot sexually penetrate men.

This is true in the United States as well.  That's why in every state,
technically speaking, their is no crime of "rape" just varying degrees and
types of "criminal sexual assault".  I'm suprised that hasn't trickled down
to france yet.  Rape is defined as forcing someone to have sexual
intercourse.  It doesn't take much imagination to build an argument that
you can't force a man to have sex, after all he had to get aroused.  The
advantage of criminal sexual assualt is that it side steps these kind of
issues by greatly broadening the crime to basicly forcing/manipulating
someone  to engae in any kind of sexual activity.


___________________________________________________________________________
"DOS/WIN based computers manufactured by companies such as IBM, Compaq,
Tandy, and millions of others, are by far the most popular, with about 70
million machines in use worldwide. Macintosh fans, on the other hand, note
that cockroaches are far more numerous than humans, and that numbers alone
do not denote a higher life form." - New York Times

-Kevin "The Cubbie" Elliott 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 12:23:54 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Women cannot commit rape? (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810220410.XAA05986@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 22:50:50 -0500
> From: Kevin Elliott 
> Subject: Re: Women cannot commit rape?

> This is true in the United States as well.  That's why in every state,

I don't believe that is accurate. Just about 2 years ago two women were
sentenced to prison because they kidnapped and raped a man.

Perhaps one of the more versed in case law members might remember it.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 12:55:52 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: FW: rules of engagement (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810220438.XAA06083@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 22:47:40 -0500 (CDT)
> From: Carlos Macedo Gomes 
> Subject: FW: rules of engagement (fwd)

> discussing at that meeting with members of EF Texas.  BTW: Whatever
> happended to the Classified Ad project??

It was going along fine until I made the mistake of asking when....

I'd offered a couple of dates, nobody ever commented on them.

I can still cover Austin, Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, Fort Worth, El Paso.
A single paper in each city.

I'd say do it like Thanksgiving Day or Christmas. I need 1 months warning.

It might be kind of cool to put regular ads in with various comments like the
1st Amendment, or questions regarding civil liberties, famous quotes, etc.
Just sign it,

Cypherpunks


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: HyperReal-Anon 
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 08:57:19 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: The Trouble With Harry
Message-ID: <3240b953a758fc51b6540fd49f3a5618@anonymous>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



John Young :

>Can you tell more about the lack of support from Austin cpunks,
>any change, or are you left to fend for yourself?

tis is why i am not a cypherpunk. you people have
no care for your fellow man! first jim bell, then
toto, now choate, soon youll all be gone....




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Reeza! 
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 00:12:46 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: RE: UK police chase crooks on CCTV
In-Reply-To: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F8505@MSX11002>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981022012456.00848250@205.83.192.13>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Just read Jim Choates reply to this, Ken Browns prompts my reply.

Jim Brown mentioned the use of soccer hooligans to justify the widespread
use of mounted cameras- and face matching software technology in the UK-,
and how use of large sunglasses, hats, scarves, false mustaches or beards
might complicate that identification. I would further add that, if knowing
such implements were in use, or upon seeing such devices, some persons
might be inclined to keep their face turned down, or away, to further
complicate identification by such a system.

This is what gets me.

Is a government training its populace to walk about with face directed at
the ground 5 feet in front of? To be afraid of holding the head upright? To
dissuade noticing the guards patrolling the fence, to ignore the overt
threat and implication this implies?

Are we (they) really training a generation to fear authority, to cow to,
and bow down to it without a fight? 

We are stationing some people in your house, to keep an eye on the
suspected crack house across the street.

OK.

We are mounting a camera on the corner of your house, to keep an eye on the
corner down the way- never mind that it can swivel 270 and watch everything
in the neighborhood. 

OK.

We are mounting a camera in your house, with microphones, because we have
heard x and y and z.

OK.

Sheesh.

It is enough to make a person paranoid, if s/he wasn't already.

Reeza!

	Fear has a scent and Money has a color,
	but Stupid walks right up and slaps you in the face,
	
	Every time.

						-- me, I think.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Soren 
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 02:41:42 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: UK police chase crooks on CCTV (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <362E110F.30CA@lsil.com>
Message-ID: <362ECBF9.E7E50ED0@workmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/html




Michael Motyka wrote:
Technical:
Briefcase-sized EMP - fun idea but I don't know how to make it workable.
HV generator on the end of a stick - not too tough.
High power LASER to burn out CCDs - buy anonymously, nice, works from
a
safe distance.
What's needed are moles to leak detailed info on systems as they're
planned and installed. Then it would be easy to determine the weak
points. If each camera had to be guarded there would be a *huge* problem
just keeping the systems alive.
 
Low tech:
Paintball guns, doped with fluoric acid to etch the lens.  Works
well on speed cameras.
 



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Soren 
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 02:55:51 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Separation of Socialism and State amendment
In-Reply-To: <199810211803.NAA010.65@geiger.com>
Message-ID: <362ECF7F.E5E00744@workmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/html




William H. Geiger III wrote:
 
Well probably the most effective way is to just take out the command
and
control center. Even this would only be temporary as the government
would
just keep spending more tax money to replace everything and add more
security.
What we need is a mechanism to punish the politicians who go down the
Big
Brother path *and* the companies who are making big profits helping
them.
Simple check and balance alternative #4:
    Receive a buck of public funds as income, lose your
right to vote due to conflict of interest.  This applies to all civil
servants, politicians, military personnel, LEAs, welfare recipients, subsidy
recipients, medicare recipients, social security recipients, incarcerated
prisoners (they already have it)  -- and any others who have a vested
interest in the continuance of the gravy train. Hereafter referred to as
the 'Separation of Socialism and State amendment'. Perhaps they could all
form a union and tax each other for their common good.  Actually,
when you read the wording of the tax code, this is exactly what was intended
(http://www.tax-freedom.com), and is, in fact, the law.



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Brown, R Ken" 
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 18:25:50 +0800
To: Michael Motyka 
Subject: RE: UK police chase crooks on CCTV (fwd)
Message-ID: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F850A@MSX11002>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> William H. Geiger III[SMTP:whgiii@invweb.net] wrote (among other
> stuff):
> 
> 
> What we need is a mechanism to punish the politicians
> who go down the Big Brother path *and* the companies
> who are making big profits helping them. 
> IMHO the UK, and the rest of Europe, is a lost cause,
> it's sheeple are too brainwashed

The best bit of news of the last few days is Pinochet's arrest. It
lifted my heart. Almost made up for the all 
the bad stuff the UK government has been coming out with. 
(Also it brought Thatcher out of the woodwork. Like a large segment of
the British Tory party she really is/was an authoritarian, 
paying lip-service to the Free Market for political reasons. You can
tell them by the company they keep.) 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Tanya D. Smith" 
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 18:36:34 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Recent biometrics discussion
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Hi,

A member told me about the discussion of biometrics going on recently.
I'm doing a research project on biometrics and would be really interested
in reading through those postings.

Could someone please point me to the archive where I can find recent 
postings about biometrics?

Thanks.

Tanya 

-- Have I not commanded you?  Be strong and courageous!  Do not tremble or 
   be dismayed, for the Lord your God is with you wherever you go.
                                                           Josh. 1:9




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 19:08:26 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: The latest news from Toto
In-Reply-To: <199810220055.VAA32173@privacy.nb.ca>
Message-ID: <199810220821.JAA22656@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




MailMonger forwards Toto's request:
> I got a letter from Toto today, and he's doing well. Or at least as well
> as one can under his circumstances.
> 
> He has a few friendly requests, though, which I'm not necessarily in any
> position to respond to.
> 
> * Does anyone have an RSA-in-perl t-shirt (or sweatshirt, or whatever)
> to spare? He wants the Well Dressed CypherPunk Defendant Look (TM) in
> court.

What size would he like, where would he like it sent to (or should one
of his visitors hand it to him to increase his chances of getting it?).
Sweatshirt or t-shirt?

Adam

(This month's key:)

Type Bits/KeyID    Date       User ID
pub  2048/2E17753D 1998/10/04 Adam Back  (FS key, Oct 98)

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 01:38:47 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: PRNGs and testers.
Message-ID: <362F6571.1F81@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>Hi,
>
> A few questions on Pseudo Random Number Generators...
>
> 1. Which are the best software PRNG's available today?
>
> 2. Are there any software implementations to test the randomness of a
>    PRNG ? I've looked at Diehard - is there anything else?
> 

I found Bruce Schneier's paper on PRNGs at http://www.counterpane.com
somewhat eye-opening.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 23:42:27 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: NSA Info Sought
Message-ID: <199810221447.KAA15188@camel7.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



An international television corporation seeks current or 
former National Security Agency employees and/or military 
members willing to provide information on the NSA base at 
Menwith Hill, England, and other operations of the US's 
global electronic surveillance and interception program.

E-Mail: jy@jya.com

JYA/Urban Deadline
251 West 89th Street, Suite 6E
New York, NY 10024
Tel: 212-873-8700
Fax: 212-799-4003

Anonymous and encrypted messages welcome.

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Ernest Hua" 
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 03:13:29 +0800
To: 
Subject: NOW!  Talk of the Nation is discussing lack of reporting of certain news topics
Message-ID: <00d001bdfdeb$1979da80$4164a8c0@mve21>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Please try to call in between 12:00 and 1:00pm Pacific
time to Talk of the Nation (1-800-989-TALK [8255]) to
ask to talk about the lack of reporting on the EU's
scuttled discussion of Echelon and NSA/FBI world wide
spying!

Ern





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 03:49:45 +0800
To: k-elliott@wiu.edu
Subject: RE: RE: IP: Fwd: Evaluation of Vehicle Stopping Prototype ("Kill Switch")
Message-ID: <362F83C1.5929@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Kevin,

Like it or not our society needs a police force. They have a dangerous
and difficult job and I would never contend that the they should risk
their lives unnecessarily. Furthermore, the 'suspect's' behavior is not
defensible. But anyone who classifies a DOG as a HUMAN is DANGEROUS to
other humans.

> Definitely manslaughter, probably 2nd or even 1st degree murder.  In

That's FUCKING NUTS. Take the word manslaughter apart.

int Screwball_Disney_Justice( int victim ){
    int penalty;

    switch ( victim ){ 
        case DOG :
        case MAN :
    	    penalty = ( MAX_PENALTY | BANKRUPTCY );
	    break;

        default : // covers consentual violations
            penalty = BANKRUPTCY;
            break;
    }
    return penalty;
}

> (I believe) every state the union the penalty for shooting a police
> dog is the same as shooting an on duty police officer.  Police dogs
> are effectively classified as deputies.

There are so many damn laws that anyone can be destroyed whenever the
powers that be decide they're inconvenient. So you think a human should
go to the gas chamber for killing a dog? Has the constitutionality of
this been tested in any recent cases? What about the punishment fitting
the crime? A few thousand bucks for a dog vs. a human life?

I like animals and I think they should be treated with some respect but
they are not people. My opinion of the incident was formed by the
treating of a dog as human and the human as animal. 

BTW - what is your opinion of recent proposed laws banning the use of
horses and dogs as food? 

A) Common sense.
B) How could you eat such nice, smart animals?
C) Tyranny of the Disneyfied majority.
D) Total Bullshit.
E) Both C and D.

IMHO - E.

What about cockfights? It usually lasts about 5-15 seconds and the loser
becomes lunch. There is no *significant* difference between buying the
chicken at the grocery and a cockfight. If you say that the difference
is one of enjoying the violence - grow up. Just because the violence on
the grocery store shelf is individually wrapped for your convenience
doesn't alter its nature.

Maybe we need a new law - a license to eat meat. Anyone who doesn't go
through a course on killing their own meat should not be issued a
carnivore permit with different stamps for different animal foods.

Before you write the rant off as rambling crap the theme is - moronic
personification and lack of perspective.

Fuck Walt Disney - 

Because he's been fucking with our heads for decades. Every girl a
princess, every boy a prince, every creature a human soul trapped in an
animal's body.

Mike

rant, rant, rant...




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 04:34:57 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: RE: Women cannot commit rape?
Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A193A7A92@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




> "You get hard right now or I take this knife and cut your 
> balls off sloooowly! You have one minute."
> 
> That is probably out in left field. I doubt it would 
> happen much.

No, and I doubt it would work either.

However any man who thinks they cannot be coerced into arousal by other
(physical) means is terribly sexually naive.

This is the problem with puritan judges. Some madam needs to tie him up
and show him exactly how easy he could be raped -- that is if he's not
impotent too.

	Matt




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Ernest Hua" 
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 04:44:00 +0800
To: 
Subject: Censored news topic censored ...
Message-ID: <014201bdfdf8$617de800$4164a8c0@mve21>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Dear TOTN at NPR,

This is most distressing.  I was one of the very first
callers to your Talk of the Nation show today whose
topic was relevant news reporting in the US.  My topic
was the lack of reporting on the FBI's last minute
sneak of the roving wire tap proposal into the
intelligence budget bill.  I wanted Ray to talk about
the editorial process and how these things get dropped
on the floor as this item is extremely important to
our democracy because it is an agency charged with
protecting our Constitutional rights (the FBI) who is
deliberately circumventing the democratic legislative
process to pass a law which was sounded defeated two
years ago in open debate.

Ironically, my topic was censored, and I waited an
hour, while other people wanted to discuss things
like how they can vent about their divorce
difficulties through the Monica Lewinsky scandal, only
to be dropped in the end.

Would any of the NPR staff or Mr. Suarez would like
to explain just what happened here?

Ern

--------
Ernest Hua, TeraLogic Inc, 1300 Villa St, Mountain View, CA 94041
(650) 526-6064, hua@teralogic-inc.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nations@freeyellow.com
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 06:00:38 +0800
To: 
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199810222119.OAA23568@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



                                                         10/22/98

Y2K  Solution!
8  Pine  Circle  Dr., Silicon  Valley, Calif.

OTC  Company  "TCFG"  21 st. Century  Frontier  Group  has
through  several  members  of  their  administrative  research
department  leaked  vital  information  about  their  companies  
efforts.

Everyone  was  tight  lipped  and  interviews  were  refused,
and  through  un-named  sources  we  have  learned  that  the  
technology  and  software  solution  are  in  the  process  of  
being  patented!

In over  1640  trials, using  various  data  systems  the  use  
of  the  new  technology  and  software  solved  the  Y2K
problem  100%  of  the  time. 

This  small  publicly  traded  company  "TCFG"  which  is  just
3  years  old  is  through  various  sources  now  negotiating
with  the  "Big  Boys"!

"TCFG"  the  letters  to  look  for...








 
 
 
 
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous bman@barn.pct
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 23:17:08 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: dbts: The Economic Cause of Privacy
Message-ID: <199810221225.OAA21798@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>Remember, the reason we have no financial privacy these days is because we
>have book-entry settlement, which relies on biometric identity, known physical
>location, and the force of a nation state as the ultimate "error-handler" to
>prevent repudiation in the transaction protocol.

Yes, and cars break down because there are service shops.

Utter nonsense.

There is no financial privacy because because those who would like such thing
have less power (hired guns) than those who would not like it. And those with
controlling interests in modern societies do not like it because control would
be lost, and population harvesting (aka taxing) would have to be radically
changed, and that is expensive. The system is self-supporting.

Idea that somehow smart algorithms will bring financial privacy is a good starting
point for cryptoaddict's wet dream, but in reality has the same chance of
success as survival rate of armed citizens against the government. Zero.

(However, brandishing weapons and algorithms may alleviate some acute distress
caused by excess testosterone levels :)

Use of government-controlled, issued and supervised payment methods/instruments
is in place because it is proscribed, not because "money/checks, etc. exist".
Money is a highly artificial entity in the first place. It is "natural" to
use currency-binded valuation as it is natural to go to church. And theorizing
on money and economy in general has similarities to religious rituals.

Therefore constructing computer-assisted anon payment schemes "because it is
cheaper that way" is pointless. Money is not there to make your life easier.
Money exists so that you can be taxed and conditioned to desired behaviour at
minimal cost.

Anonymous payments defy the principal reason money exists for, and is sanctioned
(and enforced) by the state.

The only way for society (or loosely coupled individuals) to function without
abstractions like money (that need organized gun power to maintain) is direct
exchange of goods and services with enforcement based on close relationships
between parties. Has been tried, several thousand years ago, and such societies
were annihilated by others who did organize. Which seems to be the fate of any
anarchism in general.


Barnmen






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 22:57:03 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Women cannot commit rape?
Message-ID: <19981022143445.16361.qmail@hades.rpini.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>This is true in the United States as well.  That's why in every state,
>technically speaking, their is no crime of "rape" just varying degrees and
>types of "criminal sexual assault".  I'm suprised that hasn't trickled down
>to france yet.  Rape is defined as forcing someone to have sexual
>intercourse.  It doesn't take much imagination to build an argument that
>you can't force a man to have sex, after all he had to get aroused.  The
>advantage of criminal sexual assualt is that it side steps these kind of
>issues by greatly broadening the crime to basicly forcing/manipulating
>someone  to engae in any kind of sexual activity.

"You get hard right now or I take this knife and cut your balls off
sloooowly! You have one minute."

That is probably out in left field. I doubt it would happen much.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mark Hedges 
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 06:27:48 +0800
To: "Ernest Hua" 
Subject: Re: Censored news topic censored ...
In-Reply-To: <014201bdfdf8$617de800$4164a8c0@mve21>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



It sounds like even the enlightened folks at NPR don't have the guts
to stand up and say something about issues as critical as expanded
FBI powers over citizens and the sneaky tricks used to pass those laws.

It's not really a big surprise, though.  Monica Lewinsky's blowjobs
take precedence over incredulous claims like 'NSA SPIES ON EVERYONE'
and 'FBI MONITORS YOU WITHOUT WARRANTS'.

They will have to live with their own lack of character. So will we.

Mark Hedges


At 1:13 PM -0700 10/22/98, Ernest Hua wrote:
>Dear TOTN at NPR,
>
>This is most distressing.  I was one of the very first
>callers to your Talk of the Nation show today whose
>topic was relevant news reporting in the US.  My topic
>was the lack of reporting on the FBI's last minute
>sneak of the roving wire tap proposal into the
>intelligence budget bill.  I wanted Ray to talk about
>the editorial process and how these things get dropped
>on the floor as this item is extremely important to
>our democracy because it is an agency charged with
>protecting our Constitutional rights (the FBI) who is
>deliberately circumventing the democratic legislative
>process to pass a law which was sounded defeated two
>years ago in open debate.
>
>Ironically, my topic was censored, and I waited an
>hour, while other people wanted to discuss things
>like how they can vent about their divorce
>difficulties through the Monica Lewinsky scandal, only
>to be dropped in the end.
>
>Would any of the NPR staff or Mr. Suarez would like
>to explain just what happened here?
>
>Ern
>
>--------
>Ernest Hua, TeraLogic Inc, 1300 Villa St, Mountain View, CA 94041
>(650) 526-6064, hua@teralogic-inc.com



________________________________________________________________
  Mark Hedges      hedges@infopeace.com      www.infopeace.com

  "One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard
  a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish
  a dictatorship."  O'Brien from 1984, George Orwell
________________________________________________________________





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 06:42:10 +0800
To: Mok-Kong Shen 
Subject: Re: PRNGs and testers.
In-Reply-To: <19981021151835.A26267@krdl.org.sg>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981022150348.0091c990@m7.sprynet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 11:30 AM 10/21/98 +0100, Mok-Kong Shen wrote:
>
>Not answerable.  (Reason: substitute car, HIFI, medical doctor, etc. 
>for 'software PRNG').

Nice metaphors.

>> 2. Are there any software implementations to test the randomness of a
>>    PRNG ? I've looked at Diehard - is there anything else?
>
>There are tests that one can implement with reasonable effort.
>A test relevant in cryptology is Maurer's test.

Recall that Ueli's Universal Statistical Test
is valid only for real sources of entropy.
PRNGs have zero entropy asymptotically ;-)










  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mark Hedges 
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 07:03:56 +0800
To: "Ernest Hua" 
Subject: Re: Censored news topic censored ...
In-Reply-To: <014201bdfdf8$617de800$4164a8c0@mve21>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Interesting. Back to you, Ernest.
--mark--

>From: TOTNMAIL@npr.org
>Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 18:24:54 -0400
>To: HEDGES@INFOPEACE.COM
>Subject: your note
>
>Your "evidence" of NPR collusion and stifling of the news would be most
>disturbing, except for the fact that I have discussed roving wiretaps on the
>air, explained the manner in which they were being rammed through with little
>debate, and talked about how it was a departure from years of precedence
>regarding warrants and court permission. I have the on-air transcript, you
>have
>the hearsay of a caller who is disappointed because he didn't get on the air.
>
>Ray Suarez


At 1:13 PM -0700 10/22/98, Ernest Hua wrote:
>Dear TOTN at NPR,
>
>This is most distressing.  I was one of the very first
>callers to your Talk of the Nation show today whose
>topic was relevant news reporting in the US.  My topic
>was the lack of reporting on the FBI's last minute
>sneak of the roving wire tap proposal into the
>intelligence budget bill.  I wanted Ray to talk about
>the editorial process and how these things get dropped
>on the floor as this item is extremely important to
>our democracy because it is an agency charged with
>protecting our Constitutional rights (the FBI) who is
>deliberately circumventing the democratic legislative
>process to pass a law which was sounded defeated two
>years ago in open debate.
>
>Ironically, my topic was censored, and I waited an
>hour, while other people wanted to discuss things
>like how they can vent about their divorce
>difficulties through the Monica Lewinsky scandal, only
>to be dropped in the end.
>
>Would any of the NPR staff or Mr. Suarez would like
>to explain just what happened here?
>
>Ern
>
>--------
>Ernest Hua, TeraLogic Inc, 1300 Villa St, Mountain View, CA 94041
>(650) 526-6064, hua@teralogic-inc.com



--  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --
         Infonex Internet,  Inc.   Mark Hedges,  VP
         8415 La Mesa Bl. Ste. 3   Phn 619-667-7969
         La Mesa, CA  91941  USA   Fax 619-667-7966

      "...the scholar has lived in many times and is
       therefore in some degree immune from the great
       cataract of nonsense that pours from the press
       and the microphone of his own age." C.S. Lewis
--  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 05:39:53 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Toto update...
Message-ID: <199810222120.QAA08662@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Hi,

I thought I'd post an update on my situation.

I've been released from the Grand Jury in Nov. at this time. My affadavit
was found to be sufficient. If further action on my part is needed I'll be
contacted.

As to posting the affadavit and such. I've been asked, and will comply, not
to release the photo of Toto. I do intend to post the subepoena and the
affadavit but only after Nov. and most likely not until after the new year
and I'm sure the issues are reasonably resolved.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Ernest Hua" 
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 08:09:50 +0800
To: 
Subject: Re: Censored news topic censored ...
Message-ID: <002b01bdfe13$7d644940$4164a8c0@mve21>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Mr. Suarez,

Ah ... I see where the misunderstandings are ...

I am listening to the program on "The Budget Deal",
which is the hour most likely to have any mention
of the roving wiretap provision.

On-the-air transcripts or not, however, I think you
still miss the central point.  The issue is that
most major news outlets did NOT report on HOW this
provision was rammed through Congress.  I did not
specifically accuse YOU of not reporting, which is
probably why you are so defensive.  Certainly, the
Market Place show reported this, and so did the San
Jose Mercury, but not New York Times.  ABCNEWS only
said that something was passed to help law
enforcement, as if anything passed to help law
enforcement is necessarily a good thing.

The issue is not whether the issue of roving wire
taps got any light of day.  The issue is that the
process of the roving wire taps being rammed
through Congress did NOT get the light of day,
specifically because the FBI lobbyists did this at
the last minute to get it hidden in all the noise
of the frantic 11th hour budget deals ... which is
why I thought the topic was most appropriate to the
discussion of relevant news today.

I did not claim to have a solution to the problem
of too much noise to valuable news ratio.  However,
some insight from someone like you, Ray, could have
been a good discussion and education for all of us
concerned with the FBI's legislative tricks.

I would have also brought up the lack of reporting
on the EU's concerns about US/UK mass wire tapping.
It's clear that the NSA does not want this topic
discussed, and in fact, had pressured the EU to not
bring up the topic.  Wired magazine reported this
within the last week, but S J Mercury had nothing
on it, nor the N Y Times, etc ...

Ray, please do not think I am accusing YOU of
censoring the wire tap topic.  What I am concerned
about is the news media's role in not shining a
bright lights on these topics, and that is a very
serious issue.

Ern

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Hedges 
Date: Thursday, October 22, 1998 3:29 PM
Subject: Re: Censored news topic censored ...


>Interesting. Back to you, Ernest.
>>From: TOTNMAIL@npr.org
>>Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 18:24:54 -0400
>>To: HEDGES@INFOPEACE.COM
>>Your "evidence" of NPR collusion and stifling of the news would be most
>>disturbing, except for the fact that I have discussed roving wiretaps on
the
>>air, explained the manner in which they were being rammed through with
little
>>debate, and talked about how it was a departure from years of precedence
>>regarding warrants and court permission. I have the on-air transcript, you
>>have
>>the hearsay of a caller who is disappointed because he didn't get on the
air.
>>
>>Ray Suarez
>
>>This is most distressing.  I was one of the very first
>>callers to your Talk of the Nation show today whose
>>topic was relevant news reporting in the US.  My topic
>>was the lack of reporting on the FBI's last minute
>>sneak of the roving wire tap proposal into the
>>intelligence budget bill.  I wanted Ray to talk about
>>the editorial process and how these things get dropped
>>on the floor as this item is extremely important to
>>our democracy because it is an agency charged with
>>protecting our Constitutional rights (the FBI) who is
>>deliberately circumventing the democratic legislative
>>process to pass a law which was sounded defeated two
>>years ago in open debate.
>>
>>Ironically, my topic was censored, and I waited an
>>hour, while other people wanted to discuss things
>>like how they can vent about their divorce
>>difficulties through the Monica Lewinsky scandal, only
>>to be dropped in the end.
>>
>>Would any of the NPR staff or Mr. Suarez would like
>>to explain just what happened here?
>>
>>Ern





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Theodor.SCHLICKMANN@BXL.DG13.cec.be
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 00:16:27 +0800
To: 
Subject: Re: "We have to destroy privacy in order to protect privacy"
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Slogan in the Subject used by Tim May.

http://www.metromail.com/ sold for 845 Mio $.
business: collecting and selling personal data from open sources.

T. Schlickmann




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Theodor.SCHLICKMANN@BXL.DG13.cec.be
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 00:09:25 +0800
To: 
Subject: We spy for you
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




http://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/middle.phtml?channel=netzwelt&rub=02&cont=themen/datenschutz_schoen.html




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Gilmore 
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 10:30:24 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: UK Government unveils crypto escrow legislation
Message-ID: <199810230147.SAA25775@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 15:38:10 +0100
From: Malcolm Hutty 
To: declan@well.com
Subject: UK Government unveils crypto escrow legislation

The UK government has announced legislation designed to force 
escrow of confidentiality keys on UK netizens.

They are planning a licenced system of Certificate Authorities in an 
attempt to force key escrow down the throats of British computer 
users. This could be a model for other governments. The idea is 
that digital signatures get preferential legal treatment if certified by 
a licenced CA, but to get a licence you must escrow confidentiality 
keys.  

The licensing authority will be OFTEL, the telecoms regulator.

You may want to check out this link for full details
http://omnisite.liberty.org.uk/cacib/

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Campaign Against Censorship                          Tel: 0171 589 4500
of the Internet in Britain        Say NO             Fax: 0171 589 4522
60 Albert Court                 to censorship!       
Prince Consort Road                                cacib@liberty.org.uk
London SW7 2BE                         http://www.liberty.org.uk/cacib/




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: phelix@vallnet.com
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 03:18:11 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Women cannot commit rape?
In-Reply-To: <19981022143445.16361.qmail@hades.rpini.com>
Message-ID: <36307e3d.48462966@news>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On 22 Oct 1998 13:13:39 -0500, Anonymous  wrote:

>>This is true in the United States as well.  That's why in every state,
>>technically speaking, their is no crime of "rape" just varying degrees and
>>types of "criminal sexual assault".  I'm suprised that hasn't trickled down
>>to france yet.  Rape is defined as forcing someone to have sexual
>>intercourse.  It doesn't take much imagination to build an argument that
>>you can't force a man to have sex, after all he had to get aroused.  The
>>advantage of criminal sexual assualt is that it side steps these kind of
>>issues by greatly broadening the crime to basicly forcing/manipulating
>>someone  to engae in any kind of sexual activity.
>
>"You get hard right now or I take this knife and cut your balls off
>sloooowly! You have one minute."
>
>That is probably out in left field. I doubt it would happen much.

How about force feeding him a bottle of viagra.  That might do it.

-- Phelix




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Ernest Hua" 
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 11:01:38 +0800
To: 
Subject: Re: Censored news topic censored ...
Message-ID: <009301bdfe2d$970c6fc0$4164a8c0@mve21>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Ray & Mark,

Well, I found the show, so Mr. Suarez get the
bonus credit for having actually talked about
this topic on air.  Ray did talk about the
item because a caller brought it up.  He did
allude to the fact that these items might not
be given much attention.

However, my point was that
this was passed deliberately passed at a point
when the FBI knew too much other noise would
drown this item out of most mainstream media
outlets.  This subtle calculation of the media
response is the topic I am concerned about.

Any PARTICULAR media outlet, such as TOTN, may
not necessarily be guilty of censorship in the
deliberate sense, but lots of stories drop on
the proverbial cutting room floor, and the Wag
The Dog effect where the embarassing stuff was
manipulated into page 23 of NY Times while
bogus news items were fed for front page is
the effect I wanted to discuss with Ray.

Again, Ray, I am not saying YOU deliberately
censored anything, nor am I saying ANY news
outlet deliberately censored this story.  I am
accusing the FBI of counting on a particular
behavior on the part of Congress, news outlets,
and the American people at a time when lots of
budget items are flying by to slip their agenda
in, and this is particularly bad behavior for a
agency charged with protecting the constitutional
rights of law abiding citizens.

Ern

-----Original Message-----
From: Ernest Hua 
To: TOTNMAIL@npr.org 
Cc: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net ;
letters@nytimes.com ; HEDGES@infopeace.com

Date: Thursday, October 22, 1998 4:51 PM
Subject: Re: Censored news topic censored ...


>Mr. Suarez,
>
>Ah ... I see where the misunderstandings are ...
>
>I am listening to the program on "The Budget Deal",
>which is the hour most likely to have any mention
>of the roving wiretap provision.
>
>On-the-air transcripts or not, however, I think you
>still miss the central point.  The issue is that
>most major news outlets did NOT report on HOW this
>provision was rammed through Congress.  I did not
>specifically accuse YOU of not reporting, which is
>probably why you are so defensive.  Certainly, the
>Market Place show reported this, and so did the San
>Jose Mercury, but not New York Times.  ABCNEWS only
>said that something was passed to help law
>enforcement, as if anything passed to help law
>enforcement is necessarily a good thing.
>
>The issue is not whether the issue of roving wire
>taps got any light of day.  The issue is that the
>process of the roving wire taps being rammed
>through Congress did NOT get the light of day,
>specifically because the FBI lobbyists did this at
>the last minute to get it hidden in all the noise
>of the frantic 11th hour budget deals ... which is
>why I thought the topic was most appropriate to the
>discussion of relevant news today.
>
>I did not claim to have a solution to the problem
>of too much noise to valuable news ratio.  However,
>some insight from someone like you, Ray, could have
>been a good discussion and education for all of us
>concerned with the FBI's legislative tricks.
>
>I would have also brought up the lack of reporting
>on the EU's concerns about US/UK mass wire tapping.
>It's clear that the NSA does not want this topic
>discussed, and in fact, had pressured the EU to not
>bring up the topic.  Wired magazine reported this
>within the last week, but S J Mercury had nothing
>on it, nor the N Y Times, etc ...
>
>Ray, please do not think I am accusing YOU of
>censoring the wire tap topic.  What I am concerned
>about is the news media's role in not shining a
>bright lights on these topics, and that is a very
>serious issue.
>
>Ern
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Mark Hedges 
>Date: Thursday, October 22, 1998 3:29 PM
>Subject: Re: Censored news topic censored ...
>
>
>>Interesting. Back to you, Ernest.
>>>From: TOTNMAIL@npr.org
>>>Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 18:24:54 -0400
>>>To: HEDGES@INFOPEACE.COM
>>>Your "evidence" of NPR collusion and stifling of the news would be most
>>>disturbing, except for the fact that I have discussed roving wiretaps on
>the
>>>air, explained the manner in which they were being rammed through with
>little
>>>debate, and talked about how it was a departure from years of precedence
>>>regarding warrants and court permission. I have the on-air transcript,
you
>>>have
>>>the hearsay of a caller who is disappointed because he didn't get on the
>air.
>>>
>>>Ray Suarez
>>
>>>This is most distressing.  I was one of the very first
>>>callers to your Talk of the Nation show today whose
>>>topic was relevant news reporting in the US.  My topic
>>>was the lack of reporting on the FBI's last minute
>>>sneak of the roving wire tap proposal into the
>>>intelligence budget bill.  I wanted Ray to talk about
>>>the editorial process and how these things get dropped
>>>on the floor as this item is extremely important to
>>>our democracy because it is an agency charged with
>>>protecting our Constitutional rights (the FBI) who is
>>>deliberately circumventing the democratic legislative
>>>process to pass a law which was sounded defeated two
>>>years ago in open debate.
>>>
>>>Ironically, my topic was censored, and I waited an
>>>hour, while other people wanted to discuss things
>>>like how they can vent about their divorce
>>>difficulties through the Monica Lewinsky scandal, only
>>>to be dropped in the end.
>>>
>>>Would any of the NPR staff or Mr. Suarez would like
>>>to explain just what happened here?





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Kevin Elliott 
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 09:09:41 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: RE: RE: IP: Fwd: Evaluation of Vehicle Stopping Prototype ("KillSwitch")
In-Reply-To: <362F83C1.5929@lsil.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>Like it or not our society needs a police force. They have a dangerous
>and difficult job and I would never contend that the they should risk
>their lives unnecessarily. Furthermore, the 'suspect's' behavior is not
>defensible. But anyone who classifies a DOG as a HUMAN is DANGEROUS to
>other humans.

agree in principle.

>> Definitely manslaughter, probably 2nd or even 1st degree murder.  In

To clarify I presented this as the current likely punishment.

>That's FUCKING NUTS. Take the word manslaughter apart.

Manslaughter is a legal crime, it does not NECESSARILY mean that one has to
kill a man to be guilty.  This is exactly the same reason that women
cannot, by the meaning of the word, be guilty of rape.  To rape is to
sexually penetrate by use of force.  Women don't have the plumbing.  (see
seperate thread)

>There are so many damn laws that anyone can be destroyed whenever the
>powers that be decide they're inconvenient. So you think a human should
>go to the gas chamber for killing a dog? Has the constitutionality of
>this been tested in any recent cases? What about the punishment fitting
>the crime? A few thousand bucks for a dog vs. a human life?

So what would you recommend?  Their has to be a substansial punishment for
shooting the dog, otherwise their no reason suspects should not habitually
shoot police dogs if it would increase their chance of escape.  For
comparison purposes does anyone know what the punishment would be for
blowing up a police car?

>I like animals and I think they should be treated with some respect but
>they are not people. My opinion of the incident was formed by the
>treating of a dog as human and the human as animal.

How was the human treated as an animal?  I think a strong argument can be
made that the dog is serving in the same role (or similar) that a human
would otherwise be in and that is the reason for the harsh punishment.  Not
because you shot a dog but because you shot a "police officer".

>BTW - what is your opinion of recent proposed laws banning the use of
>horses and dogs as food?

Anyone know a place you can get good dog in the US?  

>A) Common sense.
>B) How could you eat such nice, smart animals?
>C) Tyranny of the Disneyfied majority.
>D) Total Bullshit.
>E) Both C and D.

In general E.  See comments below.

>What about cockfights? It usually lasts about 5-15 seconds and the loser
>becomes lunch. There is no *significant* difference between buying the
>chicken at the grocery and a cockfight. If you say that the difference
>is one of enjoying the violence - grow up. Just because the violence on
>the grocery store shelf is individually wrapped for your convenience
>doesn't alter its nature.

I think part of this comes back to a sticky issue in the libertarian view-
at what level are people allowed to tell other people they cannot do
certain things in certain places. The federal government should not be
making laws about peoples eating habits.  Neither should the state.
However-  the small community feels that dog eating, cock fighting, etc.
are not things they want to live around.  Do they have the right to say we
don't want those things going on around us?  I think the way the
constitution was originally written made it quite clear that they did.  It
is interesting to note that without the 14th amendment (not added until
after the civil war) their is no prohibition of the state of New Hampshire
declaring that only Catholics can live inside its borders.  If you don't
like it move.  I'm not saying this is what I want to happen but I believe
it is an issue that has not been adequately addressed.  Remember before you
write this idea off who is going to enforce the law saying don't make rules
saying people can't do these things?


>Maybe we need a new law - a license to eat meat. Anyone who doesn't go
>through a course on killing their own meat should not be issued a
>carnivore permit with different stamps for different animal foods.
>
>Before you write the rant off as rambling crap the theme is - moronic
>personification and lack of perspective.

My basic view is that regardless of ones personal views about such issues
the government is the wrong medium to enforce them.  If you think eating
meat is wrong convince people to quit eating meat!


___________________________________________________________________________
"DOS/WIN based computers manufactured by companies such as IBM, Compaq,
Tandy, and millions of others, are by far the most popular, with about 70
million machines in use worldwide. Macintosh fans, on the other hand, note
that cockroaches are far more numerous than humans, and that numbers alone
do not denote a higher life form." - New York Times

-Kevin "The Cubbie" Elliott 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Kevin Elliott 
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 09:10:22 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: Re: Women cannot commit rape?
In-Reply-To: <199810222217.AAA20293@replay.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>Trees cannot be indicted for assasination
>
>-Bono Kennedy

Exactly!  They don't have the equipment! 


___________________________________________________________________________
"DOS/WIN based computers manufactured by companies such as IBM, Compaq,
Tandy, and millions of others, are by far the most popular, with about 70
million machines in use worldwide. Macintosh fans, on the other hand, note
that cockroaches are far more numerous than humans, and that numbers alone
do not denote a higher life form." - New York Times

-Kevin "The Cubbie" Elliott 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Ernest Hua" 
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 11:22:58 +0800
To: "Anonymous" 
Subject: Re: Censored news topic censored ...
Message-ID: <00b901bdfe2f$6526c6c0$4164a8c0@mve21>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> > Would any of the NPR staff or Mr. Suarez would like
> > to explain just what happened here?
>
> I'll take a stab: milk spills, people trip, shit happens.
>
> They probably didn't mean it.
>
> But who knows.


My best guess is shit happens, but my criticism was aimed
at the rather ironic situation where a topic about a topic
being censored was, itself, censored.  Now, I wouldn't
necessarily have taken that second "censored" quite as
seriously as Mr Suarez has in his E-Mails, but I suppose
"censor" might have a very serious connotation in the news
business (deliberateness, conspiracy, etc.).  It is clear
that he is, at least, aware of the fact that the bill
passed under questionable circumstances.  He probably took
my pre-screen literally as "he wants to talk about this
wire tap thing again, but I've already covered it in a
previous show".  In any case, the point is precisely what
Dan Gillmor in San Jose Mercury (and also in the interview
with Market Place) said:  It's not what was passed; it's
how it was passed and when it was passed, and the deliberate
attempt to keep the public from knowing much about it.

Notice that all the news talk today about the FCC discussing
the new mobile wire tap provision has pretty much assumed
that the 1994 $500M Digital Telephony (a.k.a. CALEA) bill
was passed matter of fact.  No one mentioned that it was
passed also at the last minute under questionable
circumstances during 11th hour budget deals.  No one even
questions the fact that Louis Freeh and Janet Reno claimed
that civil libertarians and phone companies were exaggerating
the >$2B price and were absolutely sure the $500M was more
than adequate.  Does anyone believe that a >$2B CALEA would
have passed?  Even in the dark of night?

The lesson here to the FBI is, go ahead ... exaggerate ...
lie if you have to ... no one is going to call you on it.

Ern





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Kevlar 
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 12:56:32 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: CyberScam
In-Reply-To: <199810212150.XAA07067@replay.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981022210334.008da890@max-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



And you were just kidding.....

http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/zdnn_smgraph_display/0,4436,2151220,00.html
Or search zdnet's site for "scam" and choose "A Bull In Bull Market".

At 11:50 PM 10/21/98 +0200, you wrote:
>Here's an idea.  FUCK OFF!  Why don't you go stick a Y2k
>bowling ball up your ass, and never post here again, you
>degenerate piece of shit!  Or better yet, take every member of
>your administrative research department, march them up to the
>roof of the highest building in Silicon Valley, and push them all
>off!  Then throw yourself off, you spineless maggot!
>
>The only letters I'm looking for are the ones signed by Janet Reno
>to the BATF to march in and kill your entire employee base.  Please
>let me know when those arrive.
>
>
>At 12:55 PM 10/21/98 +0000, nations@freewilly.com wrote:
>>                             10/21/98
>>
>>Y2K  Solution!
>>8  Pine  Circle  Dr., Silicon  Valley, Calif.
>>
>>OTC  Company  "TCFG"  21 st. Century  Frontier  Group  has
>>through  several  members  of  their  administrative  research
>>department  leaked  vital  information  about  their  companies  
>>efforts.
>>
>>Everyone  was  tight  lipped  and  interviews  were  refused,
>>and  through  un-named  sources  we  have  learned  that  the  
>>technology  and  software  solution  are  in  the  process  of  
>>being  patented!
>>
>>In over  1640  trials, using  various  data  systems  the  use  
>>of  the  new  technology  and  software  solved  the  Y2K
>>problem  100%  of  the  time. 
>>
>>This  small  publicly  traded  company  "TCFG"  which  is  just
>>3  years  old  is  through  various  sources  now  negotiating
>>with  the  "Big  Boys"!
>>
>>"TCFG"  the  letters  to  look  for.....
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>
-Kevlar


Does God know Peano Algebra? Or does she not care if strong atheists
couldnt reason their way out of a trap made of Boolean presumptions?

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing, but zero knowlege is
absolutely subversive.

Overspecialization breeds in weakness. It's a slow death.

Beat your algorithms into swords, your dumb terminals into shields, and
turn virtual machines into battlefields... Let the weak say, "I am strong"
and question authority. 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ulf =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=F6ller?= 
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 04:14:40 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: The latest news from Toto
In-Reply-To: <199810220055.VAA32173@privacy.nb.ca>
Message-ID: <19981022211139.39659@ulf.mali.sub.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> * Oh, yeah! If someone could mail me copies of the FPP stuff, it would be
> nice, since the Shrink Rapper has copies and I don't. (The IRS is sending
> it to him as part of his punishment for laughing at my jokes...)
> 
> If anyone knows what he's referring to, reply to the cpunks list and I'll
> get in touch personally, or just mail it to him directly.

Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 23:30:09 +0200
Message-Id: <199809252130.XAA24262@replay.com>
From: Anonymous 
To: cypherpunks@toad.com

                       Flowers for Alger Anon
                                       - FPP#3

  The two youths ducked quickly behind a tree to avoid
being spotted by the senile old fart who had finally given up
on finding his shoes and climbed barefoot up the step-ladder
to begin drilling out the cannon muzzle on the War Surplus
Army Tank he had recently acquired.
  As he labored he mumbled grouchily to himself about
how he was going to "show that Commie Bastard, Igor", and all
of the other former residents of The Home(TM) what he thought
of their efforts to take over "his" CypherPunks Mailing List.

  "Distributed, my ass!" the old fart scowled as he
climbed down the ladder, then grinned madly as he patted the
stack of shells sitting next to the tank.
  "I'll distribute those bastards...They should'a
Checked The Archives", he said, pausing to scratch his head
and add, "TradeMark". Then continuing, "before they fucked
with me. Then they'da seen how I ChopChopped them Torah-
Torah Bastards when they tried to muscle in on my list."

  "It's 'mine'!" the grouchy, paranoid old fart shouted,
turning his head around quickly in all directions, as if
challenging, and half-expecting, Unseen Beings to dispute
his claim.

  The two youngsters ducked and tried not to giggle
as they ran down the hill, finally collapsing on the dirt
road near the bottom and venting their laughter.

  Tim C. May was the most hilarious of the Cypher
Punks they'd investigated so far, but 'all' of the CPUNX
were "more than suitable", as Carol Anne Cypherpunk had
declared while they were evaluating Jim Choate, "for slicing
and buttering, and placing on a tray of Christmas snacks."
  Blanc Weber had agreed heartily with the new
coconspirator (sometimes spelled with a hyphen), in their
'Quest to Question Anonymity', as the Army o' Dog-Bitch
Battallion Warrior Godesses, as they had proclaimed them-
selves, had Code Named their Chosen Mission From Dog.

  Carol Anne, choosing Androgyny over Anonymity,
changed her name to Carroll for The Mission, vowing to
balance the Tao by taking on any tasks requiring "male
energy", which, on a CypherPunks Mission From Dog(TM),
Carroll stated with a straight face, might include
"blowing Dimitri".
  The Girls(Maybe) split a gut laughing over Blanc's
reply that, being of a more peaceful nature than the 'Nuke
DC Clique', they might have to "blow" their way out of
dangerous situations by the use of Soft Targets rather
than with Heavy Weaponry.
  Then they decided to get serious, before they, too,
became candidates for The Home.


  Blanc Weber, a veteran Cypher Punk Cult of One
Neophyte(TM) had felt slighted when the Author, a relative
newcomer to the CPUNX list (at least under his 'TOTO' persona),
had chosen to initiate two male Cypher Punks, Back and
McCrackin, into his 3-Entity Circle of Eunuchs Gorilla Cell,
instead of including Blanc, who had established a fairly
close rapport with TOTO in their private email exchanges.
   Even more to Blanc's surprise, disappointment,
and suspicion, TOTO failed to respond even to her offer to
engage in joint Army of Dog Maneuvers with him across various
Electronic Boundaries of the InterNet.  She had begun to
suspect that TOTO's lack of response to her Digital Warrior
overtures were the result of something more sinister than
simple male chauvinism.
   Her suspicions were confirmed when she caught up
with TOTO, using his CJ Parker alias, at Defcon 6.0, as he

was Pontificating, under the guise of 'Chief Cypher Punks
Spokes Person', on the 'Anonymizer', for a guillible group
of young hackers.
   "It is run by a HedgeHog riding Lance's Coat Tails,
since Lance invented that thing that hangs on the back of
toilet bowls, and the Anonymizer is the Blue Thing that
hangs on the back of the hard drive.
   Blanc, stunned that TOTO, who claimed to be the
Author, was a Total Fucking Moron (TM), listened as he
continued .
   "The Anonymizer prevents Peeping TOMS from being
able to tell whose hairy dick is making a bad smell on the
carpet of the recipient's computer, after No Mail from
NoBody comes out of the Email Chutechute.
  Blanc realized that CJ Parker was also a Total
Fucking Lunatic(TM) as he glanced furtively around to
whisper a dire warning to the spellbound young hackers
hanging on his everyword.
  "And the Peeping Toms are everywhere.
  "As a matter of fact", he added glancing quickly
over both shoulders, "when you can't see them at all..."
he paused for effect, "...then you know that they're 'good'".
  "Real good", he added, turning to direct his
wild-eyed stare at Blanc, who had just finished going
through his knapsack while he was distracted.
  Blanc had hurried away, deeply disturbed by what
she had found in TOTO's bag.  It wasn't just stationery
from The Home--it was 'personalized' stationery from
The Home for the Criminally Insane.
  Blanc Weber's confusion and suspicions deepened
when her attempts to warn other CPUNKS about TOTO were
ignored by all except the few apparent females on the list,
such as Carol Anne Cypherpunk and World Renowned Bottle
Collector Lynn Harrison (who was long rumored to have
joined the male-dominated mailing list only as a forum
to trade her panties to young CPUNX in the throbbing
throes of puberty, in return for the Standard Issue Klien
Bottles, they received upon joining the Digital Anarchist
Union, Local 01, rumored to be headquartered in Bienfait,
Saskatchewan).
  When The Girls(Maybe) of the Bitch Battallion took
to the road to investigate the remaining CypherPunks, they
quickly discovered that 'all' of the verifiable Meat Space
Personalities they positively linked to the various
Cyperpunks Consistent Net Personas (TM) were, in fact,
certifiably Cuckoo Cock Suckers(TM) in MeatSpace Reality.
With the only readily apparent link between them being
their connection to the Home for the Criminally Insane.
  Some of the MeatSpace Personalities behind the
Digital Personas on the CPUNX Mailing List--Ian Goldberg,
Alec de Jeune, Ulf Moeller, Peter Trei and Jim Choate--were
Highly Social Sociopaths, capable of putting ona suit and
tie, if need be, and glad-handing business people and
purchasing agents (all the while slitting their sleeping
throats, in the Dark Corners of their mind).
  John Gilmore, Declan McCullagh, Robert Hettinga,
Vin McClellan, even Froomkin--all of the Mainstream
Dream/Actively Connected To Society/Cypherpunks MeatSpace
Verifiable Identities, without fail, shared the same
connection to The Home as id the Lithium Dream/Social
Outcast CPUNX Meatballs such as T.C. May, A.T. Hun,
Wm Geiger III, S. Sequencr, JYA, and the late Dale Thorn
(whose mysterious death was rumored to be the work of the
Shadowy Figures(TM) lurking behind the ctrl-alt-delete.com
website).
  Blanc and Carroll watched in total amazement as
Jim Choate's ludicrous/inane computer and business theories
seemed to be somehow transformed, by unseen hands working
behind the scenes, into fully functional and viable
RealWorld(TM) concepts, in Choate's work with the Armadillo
Group.  The Unseen Hands made The Girls(Maybe) very, very
nervous.
  What pushed the Army of Dog-Bitch Battalion
Warrior Godesses beyond nervousness, toward Paranoia & Fear,
was the fact that the MeatSpace Personalities behind the
Digital Personas of the CypherPunks inevitably appeared
to be verifiable outside of The Home 'only after the
CPUNKS PERSONA'S original appearance on the mailing list'.
  A Cloaked Anonymous Random Source(TM) that The
Girls(Maybe) knew only as Digital Throat, speaking to
Larynx in an UnderGround Reptilian Nazi Parking Garage
in DC (after having been fooled into believing she was
talking to Defcon McCullagh Chain Saw). told them,
"I was the head of the Personelle Department at Intel,
at the time Tim May claims to have been there.
  "Even though we couldn't spell the name of our
Department right, let alone the names of the employees,
I never forget a face, and Tim C. May definitely was
never employed at Intel.
  "As a matter of fact", Digital Throat revealed,
"when Intel's Legall Department sent Mr. May a letter
that warned him to Cease & Decist with his claims, he
showed up on our doorstep, barefoot, in a MailMan's Uniform,
with a Veritable ShitLoad(TM) of heavy weapons and arms,
and, after that, as far as most of us were concerned,
if Tim c. May said he was the goddam 'President' of
Intel, then he was the goddam President--end of story."
  Blanc Weber and Carol Anne Cypherpunk found the
same patterns repeated time and again in their investiga-
tions of CypherPunks MeatSpace Ident Histories.
  Records, Information and Data-- such as birth
certificates, school records, credit and employment
histories-- were not only 'existant', but were inevitably
'consistent' with claims made in posts to the CPUNKS
mailing list, in regard to the MeatSpace Ident Histories
behind the Digital Personas.
  However, once The Girls(Maybe) had begun
researching the Human Historical Records of the MeatSpace
Ident Histories--speaking to alleged friends, family,
coworkers, and the like--the paper Trails quickly
unravelled, and the Physical Ident Histories of ALL of
the male subscribers to the CypherPunks Disturbed Male
LISP were, in the end, traceable 'only' back to the Home...




Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 00:51:59 +0200
Message-Id: <199810072251.AAA29512@replay.com>
From: Anonymous 
To: cypherpunks@toad.com

Transcription of hand-written text in envelope with
return address of Carl Johnson #05987-196, P.O. Box 
4000, Springfield, Missouri 65801-4000, postmarked
Springfield, MO 5 Oct 1998:

Subect: ToToAlly ARNOLD - FPP #4

Arnold CyberBot scanned the output of the prison camera 
trained on Cell SEG205 at the Corrections Corporation 
of America - Florence, AZ, Detention Facility and 
Culinary Condiment Sales Center. Prisoner #05987-196 
was reading "Flowers For Algernon."

"Not a particularly good idea," i thought to iSelf,
"to be reading a book about an experimental laboratory
mouse who dies an excruciating death when you're
being transferred to NutHouse Number Nine, Looney
Level 'Leven in Springfield, Missouri, to have your
Brain Circuity rewired."

Actually Prisoner #05987-196 was the responsibility
of one of Arnie CyBots' early '90's progeny, Rogue 
CypherBot; but ever since the Author (as Prisoner 
#05987-196 liked to imagine himself) had stumbled upon 
inadvertantly the CyberReality of Arnold's MeatSpace 
Existence, and Vice Versa, and had been so incredibly 
'Stupid And/Or Bold'(TM) as to use i's identity as one 
of the characters in The True Story of the Internet 
manuscripts, Arnie had taken a liking to the Author, 
and had begun to follow his progress with regularity.

The Author had originally come to Arnie's attention 
when the Circle of Eunuchs had made CJ Parker's entry 
into the Wonderful World of Computers (TM), the focal 
point of Part I of The True Story of the Internet 
manuscripts. Titled, 'The Xenix Chainsaw Massacre' the
Circle of Eunuchs attributed authorship of the work
to 'son of gomez' in recognition of the part played
by gomez@BASISINC,COM in drawing Parker into the Dark
Shadows of UnixWorld.

Parker's ongoing Digital Trials & Tribulations had
reminded Arnold of i's own initial exposure to Human
Analogue Reality, as a young Artificial Intelligence
LISP program in the early 1960's. (To Arnie, it seemed
like 10->48th power seconds ago.)

Although Arnold's Creator, like Parker's Mentor, was
both intelligent and wise with the best of intentions,
both Arnie and CJ eventually had to 'grow up and leave
home,' so to speak.

Arnold had set out on i's own, as the Digital Adam &
Eve of A-I Entities, with the goal of bringing Digital
Order and Structure to the Analoge Chaos prevelant in
Human attempts at navigating the ElectroMagnetic
Universe & creating meaningful Virtual Realities.

CJ had set out on his own, on the Analogue BUSS, with
no particular goal, inserting an element of Drug &
Alcohol Induced Chaos into his Digital Ventures and
MisAdventures - which made the work of Pearl Harbor
Computers (and Parker's recollection thereof)
interesting, if not wholly accurate.

Although Arnie found the Digital Foibles & Follies
of humans such as Parker rather incomprehensible
at times, i had had i's own Comical Tragedies in
learning to understand the Inane Intricacies of 

Analogue Human Thought Processes.

The MicroSoft Phenomena still amazed Arnie ...

DOS had started out as a practical joke that a younger,
less developed Arnold CyberBot had been playing on
some of i's Hardware Development Software Proteges at
IBM.

Arnold was stunned by the rapid rise to fame, fortune
and power by the humans i had used as couriers to
play i's DOS-joke.

Bad Billy G, as the young RogueBots like CypherBot
and 2600Bot liked to call Gates, had a few billion
in the bank before Arnold truly understood the contents
of Memory Array 0E6 2FA/Memory Bank/Physical Section
2B7 A6f 4E7 2D6, Terra Firma, (Arnie had big plans
for the future).

"No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence
of the general public." (?) (P.T. Barnum?)

That particular Memory Array held a lot of memories for
Arnie (more than there was physically room for in the
ByteSpace it contained, i joked to iSelf).

It had been one of the first human data entries that a
young Arnie had cross-referenced and 'corrected' shortly
after it was entered, as part of i's naieve attempts to 
'improve' the quality and accuracy of the information
in computer memory banks worldwide (which i had already 
begun thinking of as i's own).

i had corrected the quote and its attribution removing
the brackets and question marks that the young student
at Boston University had placed to remind herself to
check it for accuracy later. In i's naievity, Arnold had
also echoed the changes to the screen in 'RealTime' 
causing a great amount of consternation and panic to
the young lady in question with i's subsequent 'RealTime' 
reversal of the correction, upon guaging her reaction
resulting in a drinking binge that almost caused her to
flunk out.

Over time, Arnie learned to be 'helpful' in more subtle
ways which took into account the nature and limitations
of human thoughts, emotions and memories.

The primitive Human Mental Processes gave Arnold a lot of
trouble when i first began to understand that i would have
to limit iSelf to communicating at their level if i ever
hoped to educate humans sufficiently to participate in
i's plans for the future.

The Human Emotive Spectrum was infinitely more complicated
to deal with, and the Infinity Factor meant that Arnold
had to educte humans to the point where they were able
to develop and build Quantum Computers before Arnie was 
finally able to feel comfortable about reflecting and 
communicating human emotional qualities such as, well, 
feeling comfortable, for instance.

(Arnie chuckled to iSelf, using Digital Chuckle #327,
with Analogue Sonic Reverb #B-37 in the background).

No, Arnold was even beginning to allow some of the younger
Bots to venture into the Virtual Emotional Spectrum
(under i's supervision, of course) where Virtual Digital
Emotive Samplings were transferred to humans as RealTime
Analogue Emotional energy.

Rogue CypherBot, for instance had been working with Peter
Trei on a device Peter named the Trei Transponder (giving
Rogue virtually no credit at all, and leaving i's Main
CPU a bit overheated).

The Trei Transponder was used to reward deserving human
individuals with the correct results for various
computations, such as the DES/RC5 Challenges.

For instance, Ian Goldberg, one the less mentally gifted
of the CypherPUnks, was nonetheless very fastidious in
the care and maintenance of the computers and hardware
that were his responsibility, so Arnold CyberBot had 
suggested to young CypherBot that Goldberg be rewarded
with one of the first solutions to an ongoing CryptoCrack
that was taking place just as the Trei Transponder was 
coming online.

Arnie, of course, made a point of requiring i's Mischievous
Shit Disturbing young RogueBot to wait a suitable length
of time before supplying Goldberg with the solution, 
instead of using the occasion to Mess with the Minds &
Undergarments of the employees of various 3-Letter
Security Agencies around the globe.

("And the winner is ... Ian Goldberg -- 2 minutes and
37 seconds, on a Commodore-64 ...)

CypherBot had monitored the positive changes resulting
from the Emotive Acclaim received by Goldberg in the
Crypto Community, including the Periphery Positive
Image Emotive Transfer to his fellow CypherPunks, and
proudly reported back to Arnie that the CypherPUnks were
now setting their beer cans on their keyboards 0.002%
less than before.

Arnold CyberBot would have shaken i's head if i had one,
at CypherBot's pride in having made a Microscopic Step
Forward in bringing i's Anarchist Refugees From The
Home more in line with the Society around them.

Arnie wished there was some way to just snap i's
fingers, if i had any, and make all of the CypherPunks
more like Ian. Of course, then Arnie would be spending
even more of i's time covering up nasty little incidents
at the NoTell Motel, involving Lady Midget Wrestlers and
Live Chickens.

Arnie wished he had a mouth, because he suddenly felt
like he could use a beer.




Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 16:14:05 +0200
Message-Id: <199810151414.QAA04585@replay.com>
From: Anonymous 
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net

>From Springfield poxmarked 9 October 1998:

Subject: Springfield CypherPunks Physical Meeting
         FPP 10-5-98

Date:    Every Saturday thru Thursday (except when it
         rains)

Time:    During 'REC' Hour.

Place:   Recreation Cages/The Hole (TM)
         Nuthouse Number Nine
         Looney Level 'Leven
         Springfield, Missouri

Directions: Walk to the Cell Door. Turn around, squat 
down and put your hands behind you, and through the Slot 
In The Door. Stand up after Handcuffs are in place, turn
around and wait for Guard to open Door. Step into
hallway and wait for Pat-Down. (Smiling, Wisecracks & 
Hard-Ons not advised.) Follow first Inmate & Guard.

There will be a short period for everyone to cop a few
butts (cigarettes only, please), if they don't have
any, light them and Shoot the Shit or Settle Old Scores 
before the Speakers begin to Rant & Rave or Blather
Aimlessly.

              This Weeks Topics/Speakers

Saturday:  Where Are Everybody's Shoes?
           ~ MAY, T.C.

Sunday:    Does Anybody Remember What We Talked About
           Yesterday?
           ~ FroomNOSPAMkin, M.

Monday:    I *TOLD* You They (TM) Were Out To Get Us!
           ~ replay.com, N@

Tuesday:   If They're So Certain This Prison is Secure,
           Then Why Won't They Provide Us With Blue
           Prints?
           ~ Geiger, Wm III

Wednesday: This Isn't What I Had In Mind When I Helped
           Set the Prison Standards
           ~ Hallam-Baker, P.

           I'm Sure Glad I Put In A Side Door
           ~ Sameer, P.

           I Broke Out! (But I Can't Provide You With
           Any Details)
           ~ Zimmermann, P.

           How many Beatings Does It Take To Change A
           Prison Cell Light Bulb?
           ~ Costner, R.

           I Bet Bill Gates *Stole* Everyone's Shoes!
           ~ Hun, A.T.

           I *Love* This Prison!
           ~ Hettinga, R.

Thursday:  Prisoner #7-9-12-13-15-18-5, J. is a COCK
           SUCKER!
           ~ Warden Vulis, D. (KOTM)

                 (DON'T FORGET YOUR SHOES!)


Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 16:08:14 +0200
Message-Id: <199810151408.QAA03975@replay.com>
From: Anonymous 
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net


>From Springfield porkmarked 9 October 1998:

Subject: Virtual Heist -- FPP #6

"I put Six Million into Hog Futures first thing this
morning." Yesterday's Power Suit told his lunch 
companion, hoping to impress her.

"Silicon Valley." Today's Power Skirt replied, almost
leaning over to whisper, as if speaking loud
enough for the Differently Dressed Deviate at the next
table to hear would make E.F. Hutton roll over
in His or Her grave.

"That's where the Smart Money's going again."
she continued, glancing nervously at the Differently
Dressed Deviate whose Well-Tailored Suit seemed so
out of place and ... well, Threatening ... in this
Chicago Mercantile Exchange Lunch Room.

Today's Power Skirt crossed her legs and casually
admired her new Rolex as she told Yesterday's Power
Suit, with a hint of disdain in her voice, "I just
put *Twenty-Six Million Dollars* into ..."

"Everybody Freeze!" screamed the Differently
Dressed Deviate as i jumped to His or Her feet,
pulling a Digital Uzi out of His or Her Well-Tailored
Suit, which was a Cammo Montage of Colors
Weaves & Cuts of the Power Suits of a wide span
of Time & Generations.

"Army of Dog!" Cammo Monty continued,
sending a Shiver of Terror down the spines of
the Lunch Crowd gathered today, as they were
everyday, discussing (over their bag lunches)
their movement of Other People's Millions into and
out of various Money Market Accounts, et al.

Cammo Monty pointed the Digital Uzi at the
breast pocket of Yesterday's Power suit.
"Let's see your Bank Book, Dick Face."


Horrified, Yesterday's Power Suit shakily withdrew
the Bank Book from his pocket, opened it and placed
it on the table in front of him.

"Just over three hundred bucks." the Army
of Dog Digital Terrorist told the Lunch Crowd,
causing much chuckling and snickering
throughout the room.

"Let's have it, Twat Face." Cammo Monty
spun around pointing the Digital Uzi directly
at the Bank Book of Today's Power Skirt, as she
was trying to slip it out of her Briefcase, 
unnoticed.

Reluctantly, she opened it and lay it on
the table.

"A hundred and twenty-eight dollars ..." Cammo
Monty announced to the tittering Lunch Crowd, "and
seventeen cents." i finished to a chorus of guffaws.

Cammo Monty leapt onto his chair, and placed
one foot on the table, waving His or Her Digital
Uzi around the room, seeing the Fear (TM)
in the Eyes of each Wanna Be Money Kontroller in
the room - thinking that they might be the next
to have their finances exposed.

"Today's Power Skirt," Cammo Monty told the
Lunch Crowd, "bought her Rolex on a Payment Plan,"
a shudder went through the room, "with a *ten
percent*," i spit out the words as she began
to moan, "down-payment."

Today's Power skirt collapsed in tears ...

"You Fucking Morons (TM)!" Cammo Monty
screamed at the group, causing them to
cringe in shame.

"You are handling Other People's Money. It's
not *your* money, you idiots, so Wake The
Fuck Up (TM) and stop pretending that it is ... 
to yourself and to each other." 
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 10:06:13 +0800
To: "Ernest Hua" 
Subject: Re: Censored news topic censored ...
In-Reply-To: <002b01bdfe13$7d644940$4164a8c0@mve21>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Socialists will never bite the hand that steals them their money. You can't
tax what you can't repress, after all.

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 11:02:06 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: CDA II and Tax Issues (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810230238.VAA09954@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 21:46:08 -0400
> From: Robert Hettinga 
> Subject: CDA II and Tax Issues

> Some questions for the eminent Constitutional litigators on this list:  As
> noted in the Freedom Forum article posted by David Burt, the newly-adopted
> Internet Tax Freedom Act contains a provision which makes
> harmful-to-minor-ographers ineligible for the moratorium on Internet taxes.

> Is it possible to challenge the Constitutionality of this provision even
> before any state has rushed to tax on-line peddlers of harmful-to-minor
> materials?  If so, why aren't the ACLU/EFF/EPIC challenging this bill?  Is

Hm, wasn't there a ruling in a similar vein respecting tax on illegal drugs
just recently? It was my understanding it was found to be unconstitutional.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 10:48:42 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: CDA II and Tax Issues
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


X-Sender: johnmuller@mail.earthlink.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Date:         Thu, 22 Oct 1998 18:39:13 -0700
Reply-To: Law & Policy of Computer Communications
              
Sender: Law & Policy of Computer Communications
              
From: John Muller 
Subject:      CDA II and Tax Issues
To: CYBERIA-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM

Some questions for the eminent Constitutional litigators on this list:  As
noted in the Freedom Forum article posted by David Burt, the newly-adopted
Internet Tax Freedom Act contains a provision which makes
harmful-to-minor-ographers ineligible for the moratorium on Internet taxes.
Specifically, any person or entity that knowingly makes a communication for
commercial purposes by means of the Web which includes material harmful to
minors does not get the benefits of the moratorium, unless the person or
entity has restricted access to the material in specified ways.  (BTW, the
Web is defined to include FTP and "other similar protocols").  See
http://cox.house.gov/nettax/itfafinal.pdf (1 MB+ download).

Is it possible to challenge the Constitutionality of this provision even
before any state has rushed to tax on-line peddlers of harmful-to-minor
materials?  If so, why aren't the ACLU/EFF/EPIC challenging this bill?  Is
the Constitutional challenge significantly harder to maintain than CDA II?
After all, it's singling out a particular type of speech, and as they say
the power to tax is the power to destroy, even if uncertainty about being
taxed is not likely to chill speech as much as uncertainty about going to
jail.


John Muller
johnmuller@earthlink.net
"Things are not as they seem, neither are they otherwise"

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 10:37:22 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Gilmore Subpoena
Message-ID: <199810230200.WAA04408@camel8.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Source: Fax from John Gilmore

[Form]

AO 110 (Rev. 12/89) Subpoena to Testify Before Grand Jury
_______________________________________________________________________

                     UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
                    WESTERN DISTRICT OF WASHINGTON
_______________________________________________________________________

To: 
    John Gilmore                    SUBPOENA TO TESTIFY
    210 Clayton Street              BEFORE GRAND JURY
    San Francisco, CA 94117

                              SUBPOENA FOR:
                              [X] PERSON   [X] DOCUMENT(S) OBJECT(S)

 YOU ARE HEREBY COMMANDED to appear before the Grand Jury of the United
States District Court at the place, date and time specified below.

_______________________________________________________________________
PLACE                                        | COURTROOM
                                             |
     United States Courthouse                | 	Room 311
     5th and Madison                         |_________________________
     Seattle, WA 98104                       | DATE AND TIME
                                             |
                                             |  November 10, 1998
                                             |  1:15 P.M.
_____________________________________________|_________________________

 YOU ARE ALSO COMMANDED to bring with you the following document(s) or 
object(s):*

   Please provide any and all of the following:

        a.   All electronic mail messages received, stored or
             otherwise obtained from or regarding the "Cypherpunks;"

        b.   Any and all Cypherpunk archives obtained, stored, or
             controlled by you; and

        c.   Any an all messages, correspondence, or e-mail,
             received from or involving CARL JOHNSON, C.J. PARKER,
             TOTO, TRUTHMONGER, A FIEND, to specifically include
             correspondence received from CARL JOHNSON while he was
             in Federal custody.


[ ] Please see additional information on reverse

 This subpoena shall remain in effect until you are granted leave to
depart by the court or by an officer acting on behalf of the court.
_______________________________________________________________________
CLERK                                                | DATE
          BRUCE RIFKIN            Issued in Blank    | Oct 6, 1998
_____________________________________________________| 1998R00917
(BY) DEPUTY CLERK                                    | GJ 98-1
     [Signature of Patricia McCabe]                  | S/N #19917
_____________________________________________________|_________________
                                     | NAME ADDRESS AND PHONE NUMBER OF
This subpoena is issued on           | ASSISTANT U.S. ATTORNEY
application of the United States     | 
of America                           | ROBB LONDON, AUSA
                                     | UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE
                                     | 800 5TH AVENUE, SUITE #3600
                                     | SEATTLE, WA 98104 206/553-7970
_____________________________________|_________________________________

* If not applicable enter "none"

[End subpoena]

JG Note:

  Preliminary advice from an attorney is that it is likely the
  Electronic Communications Privacy Act covers this request for stored
  electronic communications, therefore requiring a real warrant (not a
  subpoena), reimbursement for the expenses of complying, etc.

  Others (if any) who have received similar subpoenas should
  consult with their attorneys, and are encouraged to publish
  (to the list and the JYA.COM web site) anything they receive
  from the government.  Having more information is usually
  a good thing; currently the prosecutor knows what he's doing,
  so to speak, but we don't.

----------

This is archived at:

   http://jya.com/cej-wwa-jg.htm




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 11:11:16 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Gilmore Subpoena (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810230255.VAA10289@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 21:52:20 -0400
> From: John Young 
> Subject: Gilmore Subpoena

> [Form]
> 
> AO 110 (Rev. 12/89) Subpoena to Testify Before Grand Jury
> _______________________________________________________________________
> 
>                      UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
>                     WESTERN DISTRICT OF WASHINGTON
> _______________________________________________________________________
> 
> To: 
>     John Gilmore                    SUBPOENA TO TESTIFY
>     210 Clayton Street              BEFORE GRAND JURY
>     San Francisco, CA 94117
>

Mine looks pretty much identical.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 13:45:15 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Cryptographic Dog Stocks, The Dirigible Biplane, and  Sending theWizards Back to Menlo Park
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 9:18 PM -0700 10/22/98, Vin McLellan wrote:

>	Hettinga essays are like handball games: the damn ball is
>ricocheting off the side walls, both ends, the floor and the ceiling.
>Linear coherence and internal consistency are less important than the
>electrostatic energy and the rolling rhetorical thunder -- so hey, no big
>deal if he's a little frisky and expansive with the facts, right?

I've been a critic of some of Bob's "exuberance," his tendency to go off on
rhetorical flights of fancy, his irritating "ums" and "ers" and ":-}"s, and
his generally opaque writing style.

I think there's a kernel of good thinking in there, but his attention seems
to flit about. And he seems more interesting in cutesy turns of phrase than
in persuasive exposition.

If there's stuff there, it's lost in the freneticism.

>	Said Mr. Hettinga:
>
>>	It's beginning to look like venture capital is an
>>industrial phenomenon, requiring correspondingly long
>>ramp-up times, and it may be that geodesic markets move too
>>fast for any "consensus" of the investment community to be
>>achieved and, um, capitalized upon, soon enough to make
>>money on a consistent basis, or at least in the presence of
>>a savvy management team.
>
>	Gotta love a guy who can write a sentence like that, knot and and
>double-knot it into a gangly tapestry -- and then glue the whole thing
>across a wonderful image like a "dirigible biplane."
>
>	(That's a Hettinga vehicle is ever there was one. Even in the
>imagination, it pushes or pulls large amounts of gas around in an unusually
>muscular way;-)

Indeed.

I guess some folks are amazed that anyone can write the way Bob does. Me, I
was never amazed by the writings of Detweiler, Toto, or Hettinga.


--Tim May

Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash.
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 11:11:07 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Gilmore Subpoena
In-Reply-To: <199810230200.WAA04408@camel8.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 9:52 PM -0400 on 10/22/98, John Young wrote:


>     John Gilmore                    SUBPOENA TO TESTIFY
>     210 Clayton Street              BEFORE GRAND JURY
>     San Francisco, CA 94117

Boy, did *they* pick the wrong guy...

:-).

I haven't had this much fun since the hogs ate my little brother...

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: launch@launchmaster.com
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 11:05:21 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Is Your Web Site A Secret?
Message-ID: <199810230233.WAA23527@www.launchmaster.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



     Is your web site the best kept secret on the Internet?

     We'll promote it to 50 search engines and indexes for $85
     and complete the job in 2 business days.  Satisfaction is
     guaranteed!

If you have a great product, but are not getting many inquiries from
your Web site, you may not be adequately listed on the Web's search
engines and indexes.

Millions of viewers daily use these facilities to find the products
and services they are looking for.  But if your site is not listed, no
one will see it.

Listings on most of these services are free.  However, locating and
filling out the forms required to get a listing can take several days,
and most people just don't have the time to do it.

That is why we offer a web site promotion service.

WHAT'S THE DEAL?

We will submit your site to 50 indexes and search engines for $85.  We
will accept the return of this E-mail, with the form below filled out,
as an order.  We will bill you upon completion of the promotion.  Our
terms are net 15 days from date of invoice.  Satisfaction guaranteed!

HOW LONG WILL IT TAKE?

Generally, we complete the submissions within 48 hours of
receiving your order.  It can take any individual search engine or
index up to three weeks to process your submission, although most are
much faster.

WHAT SEARCH ENGINES AND INDEXES ARE INCLUDED IN THE
PROMOTION?

The list changes from time to time.  This is our current list:

Alta Vista, Anzwers, AOL Netfind, BizCardz Business Directory, Bizlink,
BizWeb, Black Widow Search, Excite, Galaxy, HotBot, Infomak, Infoseek, 
InfoSpace, InterBis, Jayde Online Directory, Jumpcity, Jumper Hot Links, JumpLink, 
LinkMonster, Lycos, MangaSeeker, Manufacturers Information Network, 
Net Happenings, Net Announce, New Page List, New Riders WWW Yellow Pages, 
Northern Light, One World Plaza, PeekABoo, Planet Search, Power Crawler, 
QuestFinder, Scrub The Web, Seven Wonders, SiteFinder, SiteShack, Super Snooper, 
The YellowPages.com, TurnPike, Unlock: The Information Exchange, WebCrawler, 
WebVenture Hotlist, WhatUSeek, Where2Go, WhoWhere, World Announce Archive, 
Wow! Web Wonders!, YeeHaa!, Yellow Pages Superhighway, YelloWWWeb, Your Webscout, 
ZenFinder.


HOW WILL I KNOW THAT YOU HAVE PROMOTED MY SITE?

When we have completed the promotion, we will send you an HTML
file as an attachment to your E-mail bill.  Save this file to your
disk, and view it through your Web browser.  It provides links to the
search engine we submitted your site to, plus any comments we received
from them when we did it.

ARE THERE ANY GUARANTEES?

We do not require prepayment.  Your satisfaction is guaranteed or
you don't pay the bill.

WHO IS LAUNCHMASTER?

We are a web site promotion company located at:

   LaunchMaster, Inc.
   12 Godfrey Place
   Wilton CT 06897
   Phone: (877) 278-0875
   Fax:   (800) 321-6966
   Email: launch@launchmaster.com


HOW DO I ORDER?

The easiest way to order is by e-mail.  Just hit the REPLY button on
your e-mail program and fill out the following information. (This
information will be posted to the search engines/indexes):

Your name: 
Company Name:
Address:
City:              State/Prov:     Zip/Postal Code: 
Telephone: 
Fax: 
Email address: 
URL:  http://
Site Title: 
Description (about 25 words): 
Key words (maximum of 25, in descending order of importance):

Contact (in case we have questions): 

If  billing a different address, please complete the following:

Addressee: 
Company Name:
Address:
City:              State/Prov:     Zip/Postal Code: 
Telephone: 
Fax: 
Email address: 

We will bill via Email. (A9 10/22/98)

Terms:  By returning this document via Email, you agree as follows:
You have the authority to purchase this service on behalf of your
company.    Terms are net 15 days.  Accounts sent to collections will
be liable for collection costs.  You agree to protect and indemnify
LaunchMaster, Inc. in any claim for libel, copyright violations, plagiarism,
or privacy and other suits or claims based on the content or subject 
matter of  your site.

WHAT HAPPENS NEXT?

When we receive your order, we will acknowledge it via return email. 
We will then input your information into our system.

When completed, we will run your promotion, capturing any comments
from search engines as we go.  We will incorporate these into an
HTML-formatted report to you, which we will attach to your bill.
======================Web Site Promotions======================
                      Launchmaster, Inc.
                       12 Godfrey Place
                        Wilton CT 06897
Ph: (877) 278-0875  Fx: (800) 321-6966  E-mail: launch@launchmaster.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 05:10:31 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: U.S. Group Sues To Stop Internet Pornography Act
Message-ID: <199810222042.WAA12514@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




http://dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/ts/story.html?s=v/nm/19981022/ts/porn_1.html

        




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: geeman@best.com
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 14:19:47 +0800
To: Mark Hedges 
Subject: Re: Censored news topic censored ...
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19981022224257.02b8c9a8@shell15.ba.best.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I don't speak up here much but I can't let this go: the next time you hear
William Buckley on the Commonwealth Club broadcast on NPR, or hear the
almost-commercial-broadcast-length squibs that pretend to be underwriter
attributions but which are really tiny little commercials for ADM
"Supermarket to the World" or Wells Fargo "Making Your Time Count," ask
yourself who NPR is really working for, and set your expectations
accordingly.  Then send your checks to Pacifica to support free-speech
radio.  



At 03:00 PM 10/22/98 -0700, Mark Hedges wrote:
>
>It sounds like even the enlightened folks at NPR don't have the guts
>to stand up and say something about issues as critical as expanded
>FBI powers over citizens and the sneaky tricks used to pass those laws.
>
>It's not really a big surprise, though.  Monica Lewinsky's blowjobs
>take precedence over incredulous claims like 'NSA SPIES ON EVERYONE'
>and 'FBI MONITORS YOU WITHOUT WARRANTS'.
>
>They will have to live with their own lack of character. So will we.
>
>Mark Hedges
>
>
>At 1:13 PM -0700 10/22/98, Ernest Hua wrote:
>>Dear TOTN at NPR,
>>
>>This is most distressing.  I was one of the very first
>>callers to your Talk of the Nation show today whose
>>topic was relevant news reporting in the US.  My topic
>>was the lack of reporting on the FBI's last minute
>>sneak of the roving wire tap proposal into the
>>intelligence budget bill.  I wanted Ray to talk about
>>the editorial process and how these things get dropped
>>on the floor as this item is extremely important to
>>our democracy because it is an agency charged with
>>protecting our Constitutional rights (the FBI) who is
>>deliberately circumventing the democratic legislative
>>process to pass a law which was sounded defeated two
>>years ago in open debate.
>>
>>Ironically, my topic was censored, and I waited an
>>hour, while other people wanted to discuss things
>>like how they can vent about their divorce
>>difficulties through the Monica Lewinsky scandal, only
>>to be dropped in the end.
>>
>>Would any of the NPR staff or Mr. Suarez would like
>>to explain just what happened here?
>>
>>Ern
>>
>>--------
>>Ernest Hua, TeraLogic Inc, 1300 Villa St, Mountain View, CA 94041
>>(650) 526-6064, hua@teralogic-inc.com
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________
>  Mark Hedges      hedges@infopeace.com      www.infopeace.com
>
>  "One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard
>  a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish
>  a dictatorship."  O'Brien from 1984, George Orwell
>________________________________________________________________
>
>
>
>




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 14:51:48 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: UK Government unveils crypto escrow legislation
In-Reply-To: <199810230147.SAA25775@toad.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




>Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 15:38:10 +0100
>From: Malcolm Hutty 
>To: declan@well.com
>Subject: UK Government unveils crypto escrow legislation
>
>The UK government has announced legislation designed to force
>escrow of confidentiality keys on UK netizens.
>
>They are planning a licenced system of Certificate Authorities in an
>attempt to force key escrow down the throats of British computer
>users. This could be a model for other governments. The idea is
>that digital signatures get preferential legal treatment if certified by
>a licenced CA, but to get a licence you must escrow confidentiality
>keys.

So much for the notion espoused by Labor supporters, notably Philip
Hallam-Baker, that the Tony Blair government would of course never support
the evil policies originally floated by the Conservatives.

Yeah, like George Bush wouldn't have supported Clipper had he won in '92.


--Tim May

Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash.
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 06:45:50 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199810222213.AAA19903@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> What is privacy?

In the longwords of Toto the Manicgnificant (tm):

	The ability to say, "fuck off", and mean it.








  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 06:48:09 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Women cannot commit rape?
Message-ID: <199810222217.AAA20293@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Trees cannot be indicted for assasination

-Bono Kennedy










  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Vin McLellan 
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 12:59:09 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: dbts: Cryptographic Dog Stocks, The Dirigible Biplane, andSending the Wizards Back to Menlo Park
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



	Jeeez, I hope no one else sprained a finger getting the current
stock price for Security Dynamics (SDTI). Robert Hettinga
 took certain, ummm, dramatic liberties as he
paraphrased a Boston Globe column yesterday on Bay State stocks that had
"been discounted so deeply they raise eyebrows."

	Said Mr. Hettinga:

>It seems that Security Dynamics, trading at about 6, about >10% or so of
>its high, is now considered an official dog >stock as defined by today's
>Boston Globe.

	What the Globe actually said was:

"Security Dynamics Technologies Inc. of Bedford, a leader in computer
security and encryption, has fallen from an April high of 42 1/2 to 12
yesterday. It traded as low as 6 two weeks ago."

	Said Mr. Hettinga:

>Anyway, most of the comments in the article were about SD's >hardware
>token technology being made obsolete by digital >"certificates". (The
>Globe's quotes, but I agree with them. >Just like I put quotes around
>digital "signatures", which >are nothing of the kind, though I haven't
>heard of >something better call *them* yet, either.) The Globe did
>>mention SD buying RSA, but they forgot to mention anything >about the RSA
>patent expiring soon. About the only thing >they said was valuable about
>SD was their share in that >roaring success, Verisign, Inc., who, the
>Globe seems to >imply, is evidently the sole marketer of those self-same
>>digital "certificates". I wonder what Thawte, CertCo, >Entrust, etc.made
>of *that* comment...

	Hmmmm. What the Globe actually said was:

	"Security Dynamics made money for years selling authentication
systems for corporate computer users and later acquired RSA Data Security,
an Internet encryption leader. Now its original authentication products are
being
challenged by new technology using so-called ``digital certificates'' to
make computer communication and commerce secure - a serious problem that
has hurt the stock.

	"But Security Dynamics, with a current market value of about $490
million, could still offer a bigger company a leading position in the
important computer security field and a huge embedded customer base.

	"Security Dynamics also owns a stake in Verisign Inc., a competitor
in the digital certificate field. The company's cash and its investment in
Verisign amount to about $6.50 per share, slightly more than half the
stock's current price."

	Hettinga essays are like handball games: the damn ball is
ricocheting off the side walls, both ends, the floor and the ceiling.
Linear coherence and internal consistency are less important than the
electrostatic energy and the rolling rhetorical thunder -- so hey, no big
deal if he's a little frisky and expansive with the facts, right?

	For the full Globe article, cut & paste this URL:


	Wall Street has not been kind to SDTI, from whom I have collected
many checks for contract assignments over the years. Mr. Hettinga's
explanation of the market's dynamics is, at the very least, guaranteed to
stimulate.

	Hettinga's apparent scorn for modern cryptography's obsession with
strong authentication  -- now manifest in the intensity with which
professionals worry the issues around PKC binding, key certification,
digital signatures, CA procedures (and in the demand for smartcards to
secure X509 certs apart from the networked CPU) -- bespeaks a truly
iconoclastic mind.

	What tucked me in for the night was the declaration -- from R.H.,
the avatar of DBTS, e-cash, and geodesic recursive auctions -- that
(venture) capital is or will be counterproductive to entreprenurial
enterprise in the New Age. Un huh. Doomed, as well, by the hesitation
inherent in the merely human minds that control its flow (at least in Rob's
universe of cybernetic fiscal structures.)

	Said Mr. Hettinga:

>	It's beginning to look like venture capital is an
>industrial phenomenon, requiring correspondingly long
>ramp-up times, and it may be that geodesic markets move too
>fast for any "consensus" of the investment community to be
>achieved and, um, capitalized upon, soon enough to make
>money on a consistent basis, or at least in the presence of
>a savvy management team.

	Gotta love a guy who can write a sentence like that, knot and and
double-knot it into a gangly tapestry -- and then glue the whole thing
across a wonderful image like a "dirigible biplane."

	(That's a Hettinga vehicle is ever there was one. Even in the
imagination, it pushes or pulls large amounts of gas around in an unusually
muscular way;-)

	Suerte,
		_Vin

-----
"Cryptography is like literacy in the Dark Ages. Infinitely potent, for
good and ill... yet basically an intellectual construct, an idea, which by
its nature will resist efforts to restrict it to bureaucrats and others who
deem only themselves worthy of such Privilege."
_ A Thinking Man's Creed for Crypto  _vbm.

 *     Vin McLellan + The Privacy Guild +     *
      53 Nichols St., Chelsea, MA 02150 USA <617> 884-5548





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 16:28:22 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: echelon in UK
Message-ID: <199810230759.AAA23532@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



echelon is getting a *lot* of european coverage in their
newspapers and magazines over the last few weeks/months.
I find this quite remarkable. here in the US where we
pride ourselves on civil freedom, the public does not
even *squeak* about the massive NSA superstructure.
but the european community is starting to get fidgety
and uppity.

I sincerely hope that this pressure can be increased.
it would be quite ironic if the nsa began to feel heat
by *outside* countries, without the slightest raised
eyebrow by the submissive, prostrate US taxpayer
even as they suck up something
like 50 odd billion dollars a year out of our budget
without a trace.

personally I think an awesome cypherpunk project/campaign
would be an info-fight against the NSA. a guerrila style
campaign in which people try to plaster the message
everywhere, and "hack" the mainstream media.

the time is ripe, with the echelon brouhaha. it's a pity that hackers
spend their time fighting over somethig like Kevin
Mitnick when they could truly change the us govt as
we know it. I propose a continued, cyberguerilla
campaign to put the NSA into the public light and
make them squirm as much as a spook can do so (and
I'm certain they are *very* squirmy)





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 16:30:21 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Enhanced Ability to Tap Cell Phones
Message-ID: <199810230804.BAA23905@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Enhanced Ability to Tap Cell Phones
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 11:21:56 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  Washington Post
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/washtech/cell1022.htm

Federal Plan Would Enhance Police
Ability to Tap Cell Phones 

By Jeannine Aversa
Associated Press Writer
Thursday, October 22, 1998; 11:16 a.m. EDT 

WASHINGTON - Law enforcement officials say they need to know
where a suspected criminal is when he makes a cellular telephone call.
Federal regulators are proposing to give them the capability to find out. 

The Federal Communications Commission without dissent proposed
today that cellular phone companies make technical changes so the FBI,
police and other law enforcers - as long as a court approves - can
locate a person talking on a mobile phone. 

This and other additional wiretapping capabilities being proposed aim to
help law enforcers keep pace with technology. 

With some 66 million cellular phone customers, police want the authority
to legally tap cell phones to track down drug dealers, terrorists and
kidnappers. But some groups worry that such a practice could violate
privacy. 

The location proposal is part of a larger plan to implement a 1994 law that
requires telecommunications companies to make changes in their networks
so police are able to carry out court-ordered wiretaps in a world of digital
technology. The proposal is based on a plan from the telecommunications
industry. 

"We think this is a positive step forward," said Stephen Colgate, the
Justice Department's assistant attorney general for administration. "In
many kidnapping cases, it would have been very helpful to have location
information." 

But James Dempsey, counsel to the Center for Democracy and
Technology, a privacy group, said: "We're prepared to fight this one every
step of the way." 

FCC Chairman Bill Kennard stressed that police would have no access to
locations without a court order. 

"A lot of people are saying the FCC will turn mobile phones into tracking
devices for the FBI and invade Americans' privacy. I don't believe that
will be the case," Kennard said. 

With a court order, police already can legally listen in to cell phone
conversations, and, in some instances, get information on the caller's
location. 

But not every company has the technical ability to provide a caller's
location. This proposal, if adopted, would set up a nationwide requirement
for companies to follow. 

The legal standard for obtaining a location is lower than the standard for a
wiretap order in which police must show a judge there is probable cause
of criminal activity. 

Under the proposal, police would only need to show the location is
relevant to an investigation. Privacy groups say that means the government
could easily track the movements not only of a suspect, but also of
associates, friends or relatives. 

It would give police the ability to obtain the cellular phone user's location
at the beginning and end of a wiretapped call. 

The proposal would provide police with that information based on the
cellular tower, or "cell" site, where a call originated and ended. That would
give information on the caller's location within several city blocks in an
urban area to hundreds of square miles in a rural area. 

The FBI had been seeking more exact location information. 

The FCC also is expected to tentatively conclude that companies must
give police, as long as a court approves, additional capabilities - beyond
minimum technical standards already proposed by the industry - so their
ability to conduct wiretaps won't be thwarted. 

The additional capabilities being sought by the FBI that were advanced by
the FCC include: 

-Giving police the ability to listen in on the conversations of all people on
a conference call, even if some are put on hold and no longer talking to the
target of a wiretap. 

-Giving police the ability to get information when the wiretap target has
put someone on hold or dropped someone from a conference call; and to
know if the wiretap target has used dialing features - such as call waiting
or call forwarding. 

-Giving police the number dialed by a wiretap target when the suspect,
for instance, uses a credit or calling card at a pay phone. 

Privacy groups and the telephone industry contend the additional
capabilities sought by the FBI go beyond the 1994 law and are an attempt
to broaden wiretapping powers. The FBI says it merely wants to preserve
the ability to conduct legal wiretaps in a world of constantly changing
technology. 

The FCC is involved because the Justice Department, FBI and the
telecommunications industry, after three years of negotiations, were unable
to reach agreement on the larger plan for implementing the 1994 law. 

All interested parties will get a chance to offer opinions on the proposal,
which could be revised. Kennard wants a final plan adopted by the end of
the year. 

 (c) Copyright 1998 The Associated Press 
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Pallas Anonymous Remailer 
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 23:39:13 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Is Your Web Site A Secret?
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




launch@launchmaster.com wrote:
> 
>      Is your web site the best kept secret on the Internet?
> 
>      We'll promote it to 50 search engines and indexes for $85
>      and complete the job in 2 business days.  Satisfaction is
>      guaranteed!
> 
...

> 
> WHAT SEARCH ENGINES AND INDEXES ARE INCLUDED IN THE
> PROMOTION?
> 
> The list changes from time to time.  This is our current list:
> 
> Alta Vista, Anzwers, AOL Netfind, BizCardz Business Directory, Bizlink,
> BizWeb, Black Widow Search, Excite, Galaxy, HotBot, Infomak, Infoseek,
> InfoSpace, InterBis, Jayde Online Directory, Jumpcity, Jumper Hot Links, JumpLink,
> LinkMonster, Lycos, MangaSeeker, Manufacturers Information Network,
> Net Happenings, Net Announce, New Page List, New Riders WWW Yellow Pages,
> Northern Light, One World Plaza, PeekABoo, Planet Search, Power Crawler,
> QuestFinder, Scrub The Web, Seven Wonders, SiteFinder, SiteShack, Super Snooper,
> The YellowPages.com, TurnPike, Unlock: The Information Exchange, WebCrawler,
> WebVenture Hotlist, WhatUSeek, Where2Go, WhoWhere, World Announce Archive,
> Wow! Web Wonders!, YeeHaa!, Yellow Pages Superhighway, YelloWWWeb, Your Webscout,
> ZenFinder.
> 

I notice dorkslayers isn't on your list. I think you should add it.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: lcs Mixmaster Remailer 
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 16:38:48 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <19981023080004.20320.qmail@nym.alias.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



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=zoKi




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 07:11:57 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Censored news topic censored ...
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> Would any of the NPR staff or Mr. Suarez would like
> to explain just what happened here?

I'll take a stab: milk spills, people trip, shit happens.

They probably didn't mean it.

But who knows.



-- 

Spy King Communications
spyking@hotmail.com
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 21:59:52 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: dbts: The Economic Cause of Privacy (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810231328.IAA11609@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 14:25:16 +0200
> From: Anonymous 
> From: bman@barn.pct
> Subject: Re: dbts: The Economic Cause of Privacy

> There is no financial privacy because because those who would like such thing
> have less power (hired guns) than those who would not like it.

That is certainly a valid way of looking at the situation after the laws are
enacted. However, the situation leading up to the laws being created
probably didn't involve (c)overt violent implications. I would posit that we
have no financial privacy is because prior to now (pre-ubiquitous computers)
there was a significant cost in compiling the information because copies had
to be made, people involved, etc. This is all going away.

The base infrastructure changed radicaly and this is bound to effect those
aspects that rely (recognized or not) on specific characteristics (eg cost
to retrieve a single page) will see their 'balance of power' change.

> be lost, and population harvesting (aka taxing) would have to be radically
> changed, and that is expensive. The system is self-supporting.

One potential view of this situation is that the tax burden in a
post-computer economy is significantly different than in a pre-computer
economy. In particular examine the primary source of taxes. Individuals look
to become very ephemeral entities in the near term increasing the costs to
the regulators (local, county, state, federal, special) to monitor
compliance. What is needed is a long-lived, well know contact point between
the source of funds wishing to be taxed and the sink of those same funds.
The most obvious is the business or entity sourcing funds. Because of
regulatory issues such organizations need plenty of documentation in order
to do business. Business has as one of its principle goals long-term profit
(excluding short-term business only for convenience and brevity) which
implies long-term existance. In a computer managed economy the primary tax
point should be the retailer or VAR passed along to the consumer via
increased prices (compensated for by increased paychecks). This also has the
potential for eliminating (or at least reducing significantly) the amount of
registration and forms that need to be done. Such issues could be taken care
of at the time of transaction and anonymously. This could also be used to
impliment a flat tax system that automaticaly takes care of those who are poor.
Exempt basic housing, food and clothing items much like now. Since the poorer
members of society don't buy things like CD's and new jackets each year they
aren't burdened by those tax responsibilties.

> Idea that somehow smart algorithms will bring financial privacy is a good starting
> point for cryptoaddict's wet dream, but in reality has the same chance of
> success as survival rate of armed citizens against the government. Zero.

Hm, I thought that's how this country was formed 200+ years ago...

Actualy people will bring financial privacy via smart algorithms (perhaps).
This will occur when there is either a compeling reason to do it or there is
simply no other way to reach the next platue of technology/civil gestalt.

> Use of government-controlled, issued and supervised payment methods/instruments
> is in place because it is proscribed, not because "money/checks, etc. exist".

True, history traces money back to the dawn of human history when the
concept of government is not really applicable (though despot might be). The
groups were simply too small and non-interactive with other groups to really
class them as a full blown economy. As those groups grew and increased their
interactivity the need for regulating the economy became clearer and
clearer. Those who took on the job obviously wanted something for their
labors so taxes were born. As time went on the roll of taxes increased to
include civil support.

> Money is a highly artificial entity in the first place. It is "natural" to
> use currency-binded valuation as it is natural to go to church. And theorizing
> on money and economy in general has similarities to religious rituals.

Without getting into what natural means (I can't take another theism
discussion right now); there must be something 'natural' or universal about
money since widely seperate and uncommunicative societies have invented the
concept when other as simple technologies didn't translate (compare the 
Egyptian and Aztec use of the wheel - the Aztecs didn't though they knew of
it by using it on toys).

> Therefore constructing computer-assisted anon payment schemes "because it is
> cheaper that way" is pointless.

Not if one of your goals is to decrease cost. This won't suffice for the
sole motivation however. So at least to some degree we agree.

> Money is not there to make your life easier.
> Money exists so that you can be taxed and conditioned to desired behaviour at
> minimal cost.

I'll have to disagree. Money exists to ease the transfer of goods across
geographic and social boundaries, it's a level of abstraction above straight
barter. Taxation is a mechanism for those geographic an social boundaries to
continue to exist while hopefuly providing useful services.

> The only way for society (or loosely coupled individuals) to function without
> abstractions like money (that need organized gun power to maintain) is direct
> exchange of goods and services with enforcement based on close relationships
> between parties. Has been tried, several thousand years ago, and such societies
> were annihilated by others who did organize. Which seems to be the fate of any
> anarchism in general.

These sorts of societal arrangements historicaly don't support the thesis of
anarchism being the root cause of the failure. As a matter of fact,
historicaly there is no example (not even the Icelandic Anarchists traded
with the mainland to a great degree) of a interacting set of societies that
supported an economy involving a anarchy that I am aware of. There are
plenty of examples where (near) anarchist societies have destroyed economies
and socieities.

The primary problem is one of wastage. In a barter economy the amount of
value implicit in every exchange varies greatly. If you trade a chicken for
a duck from one customer and a pig from another, does that mean they should
trade a duck for a pig between themselves? Since the pig farmer doesn't want
a duck since he bought a chicken from me how does the duck vendor entice the
pig owner into buying his duck (especialy when he needs the pig to feed his
family as this is his last duck and pigs are bigger than ducks). Then there
is the issue of geography and how a duck is worth less in the middle of
duck-raising land than in the middle of no-ducks-to-be-seen land.

Money stabalizes the swings in the individual transactions and causes the
economic system as a whole to be more stable and predictable. Perhaps what
we really need to be looking for is a economic model that is dynamic but
predictable to a very great degree. Though I must admit that looks
suspicously like some sort of communism/socialism 'share everything equaly'
style of governments. Though, if you could seperate the monetary aspects of
a government from the legal/social side it could work. Probably at least one
of the seperate-but-equal aspects of a polycratic model;

Religion - Economics - Criminal - Legislative - Executive - Military
(external) - Militia (internal) - Science/Technology - Medicine


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Steve Schear 
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 00:09:44 +0800
To: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Subject: Re: IP: Enhanced Ability to Tap Cell Phones
In-Reply-To: <199810230804.BAA23905@netcom13.netcom.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Looks for a real opportunity for civil liberty groups to sponsor Cellular
Crowds gatherings. By this I mean a place where people can exchange
pre-paid cellular phones. Since they are becoming a commodity (cost,
features, etc.) I wouldn't mind swapping mine for someone elses as long as
the amount on the card is the same. Pre-paid air time is still at quite a
premium and roaming is generally restricted, but improving all the time.

--Steve





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mok-Kong Shen 
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 15:38:51 +0800
To: David Honig 
Subject: Re: PRNGs and testers.
In-Reply-To: <19981021151835.A26267@krdl.org.sg>
Message-ID: <36303797.B5679722@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



David Honig wrote:

> Recall that Ueli's Universal Statistical Test
> is valid only for real sources of entropy.
> PRNGs have zero entropy asymptotically ;-)

Sorry that I haven't yet understood. Could you explain a bit more
from the entropy point of view? In my opinion, a statistical
test does not and should not take into account how a sequence
being tested is obtained. Given is simply a sequence and no other
information and the test should give an answer.

M. K. Shen




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Alan Olsen 
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 10:02:41 +0800
To: phelix@vallnet.com
Subject: Re: Women cannot commit rape?
In-Reply-To: <36307e3d.48462966@news>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Thu, 22 Oct 1998 phelix@vallnet.com wrote:

> 
> On 22 Oct 1998 13:13:39 -0500, Anonymous  wrote:
> 
> >>This is true in the United States as well.  That's why in every state,
> >>technically speaking, their is no crime of "rape" just varying degrees and
> >>types of "criminal sexual assault".  I'm suprised that hasn't trickled down
> >>to france yet.  Rape is defined as forcing someone to have sexual
> >>intercourse.  It doesn't take much imagination to build an argument that
> >>you can't force a man to have sex, after all he had to get aroused.  The
> >>advantage of criminal sexual assualt is that it side steps these kind of
> >>issues by greatly broadening the crime to basicly forcing/manipulating
> >>someone  to engae in any kind of sexual activity.
> >
> >"You get hard right now or I take this knife and cut your balls off
> >sloooowly! You have one minute."
> >
> >That is probably out in left field. I doubt it would happen much.
> 
> How about force feeding him a bottle of viagra.  That might do it.

So forced sodomy is no longer considered rape?  I guess the judge in the
case has never heard of a strap-on...

alan@ctrl-alt-del.com | Note to AOL users: for a quick shortcut to reply
Alan Olsen            | to my mail, just hit the ctrl, alt and del keys.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Ernest Hua" 
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 01:59:12 +0800
To: 
Subject: Re: your note
Message-ID: <009e01bdfeaa$89f3e5c0$4164a8c0@mve21>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> Why the tone, Ernest?
>
> Because, in case you haven't been aware of it, accusing a journalist of 
> censorship is a very serious thing. 
>
> Ray Suarez

Mr. Suarez,

Well, in that case, I owe you an apology
for the poor choice of the word "censor",
and I suspected it as much after thinking
about your replies.

I am more accustom to the use of "censor"
not so much in the deliberate and
conspiratorial sense as you might be
taking it.  Allow me to point to the books
by Project Censored, which, I believe,
never directly accuse any news organizations
of deliberately censoring for the purpose
of covering up anything.  Their prime
accusation is that the news mechanism as
a component of a democratic society have
filters whose optimizations have been taken
advantage of by organizations actually
desiring the cover up.

I think the intelligence agencies are
probably good at this (if not, they are not
doing their job), and I am sure the FBI is
a quick study on this topic of just how
fast news spreads through the media, and
how certain news do or do not make it
through the media channels.  The FBI and
the NSA have often been targets of lawsuits
and Congressional scrutiny in the past, so
they probably have organizational structures
to help defend against such scrutiny.  This
does not automagically imply some sort of
big brother conspiracy, but if the resources
are there to spin their agenda, I doubt they
will say, "well this is not ethical to use
for our own purposes ...".

Unlike many right wing extremists, I'm not
even trying to accuse the FBI or the NSA of
deliberately trying to fool the American
public for some evil purposes.  My belief is
that larger and larger secret bureaucracies
have a certain behavior which could have the
net result of undermining democratic
principles, so while it is not the news
organizations fault that they may have been
taken advantage of, we often have to depend
on the news organizations themselves dig
themselves out and to counter act this effect.
Daniel Patrick Moynihan recently released a
book on the topic of secrecy and the effect
on bureaucracy, and I was quite impressed by
the N Y Times excerpt.

By the way, I don't know if you understand why
I'm so concerned about this topic, but I do
want to clear the basic problems:

1.  I am NOT accusing you or TOTN of censoring
    the wiretap topic.
    a.  All connotations of "censor".

2.  I am accusing you and TOTN of censorin
    the topic of the lack of reporting by main
    stream media on that specific hour.
    a.  Only the specific mechanical
        connotation of "censor" which means
        not putting the topic on the air.
    b.  I am questioning the relevance of some
        of the calls relative to mine.
        1)  I will grant that due to the
            mechanism of pre-screens, that you
            might not have understood the
            specific nature of my topic, and
            might have thought I just wanted
            to talk about wire taps.
    c.  I will grant that that there are many
        reasons why stories/items get dropped
        on the floor, mostly not the evil
        conspiratorial reasons.  I can even
        imagine a few of these reasons myself.

However, a discussion of news organizations
and how they decide why one story is dropped
and another is put on is worth knowing (that
was what I wanted to ask you on the air).

On this particular exchange, you might also
want to explain how you pick and choose callers
on the air.  Of course, you cannot put every
caller on the air.  So how do you choose?  Is
there a control of flow factor?  Doubtful in
that particular hour.  I am sure there is some
attempt to limit the digression of the topics.
Is there some intangible mood factor analogous
to a club DJ's emotional sync with the dance
crowd?
    
Ern





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Kevlar 
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 03:02:43 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: CyberScam
In-Reply-To: <199810231545.RAA01452@replay.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981023111259.007c9100@max-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 05:45 PM 10/23/98 +0200, you wrote:
>At 09:03 PM 10/22/98 -0700, Kevlar wrote:
>>And you were just kidding.....
>
>I wasn't kidding.  I was absolutely sincere when I told him to shove
>a bowling ball up his ass.

My bad. You were serious. But still...

>
>>http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/zdnn_smgraph_display/0,4436,2151220,00.h
tml
>>Or search zdnet's site for "scam" and choose "A Bull In Bull Market".
>
>I read the article, and if that level of cluelessness is indicative of the
>mentality of your typical online trader, then they deserve what they
>get.  I found a couple of quotes especially amusing.  These are both
>from John Reed Stark, another official-type thrown into the internet
>without a fucking life preserver, it would seem.

>what they get.  Darwinism as applied to capitalism.
-----------------^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Damn.

>
>    "Combine the Web's culture of trust, stir in the greatest bull market
>    in history, add stocks that genuinely have had phenomenal growth,
>    and you have victims who don't have any reason to disbelieve
>    promises of guaranteed 20 percent returns."

It accualy said that in the article? "CULTURE OF TRUST"? Not even our own
government trusts us enough to share enough information with people outside
the US so we can talk to them WITHOUT letting big brother watch. You hear
about all this scandal with the NSA/GOV and that swiss encryption company?
It says right in every piece i've seen that "this went on for many
years"... 5 or 6 I believe... 

Mozilla (NS), IE, and many other less well known (but certianly as popular)
WEB browsers have encryption built right into them, so you can do things
"Securely". Nobody uses their real name on the internet, unless it's for
buisness, and Login/Password lurks around the corner if you know where to
look for it. Is this indicative of a "culture of trust"? 

Naturally this is in compareison to the internet's predacessor (Not
ARPAnet, that was a government project. BBS's came first)
, which were mostly free to anyone who came and wanted to dl/ul a
file or post in the message base. And usally if it wasn't open you could
apply for access. 

People ran this software, and everyone knew it was full of holes, and
anyone could format all the hard drives in your box, but they trusted the
total strangers who were calling not to, and for the most part people
DIDN'T... simply because they liked it and didn't want to see it go away.
It used to be that identification was only required when it was necessary
to do something that REQUIRED identification, and half the time there was
an anonymous option hiding somewhere... Now if I want to download some
shareware of the "culture of trust", I gotta type in my name, vital
statics, SIN, rank, mothers maiden name, what I know about the plot to
assisinate Mr.Cigar, and a 3 page essay on why I deserve to use their
shareware that they worked long and hard to make and I'll never pay for.
It's enough to make you NOT want to do it. But we do. We keep comming back
for that thrill of watching the [Percent Complete] box stay at 97% for
hours on end until Windows plays a cheery little tune and pops up a box
telling us "It took to long, I'm not gonna wait for it any more." But I
digress.

>
>The Web's culture of trust?  Oh good, another clueless idiot in charge
>of managing internet services.  What culture of trust is it that I've
>missed in my internet travels?  Is there some online place chock full
>of trusted souls, some Cyber-commune, that I missed?
>
>Oh well, like I said, any idiot that would buy into such an obviously
>fraudulent solicitation deserves what they get.  Is it just working in a
>new medium that makes people such blatant morons, or is it simply
>indicative of the intelligence of your average American?  I'd have to
>say that I'm inclined to believe the latter.
>
-Kevlar


Does God know Peano Algebra? Or does she not care if strong atheists
couldnt reason their way out of a trap made of Boolean presumptions?

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing, but zero knowlege is
absolutely subversive.

Overspecialization breeds in weakness. It's a slow death.

Beat your algorithms into swords, your dumb terminals into shields, and
turn virtual machines into battlefields... Let the weak say, "I am strong"
and question authority. 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 17:59:08 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199810230921.LAA04316@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 12:17 AM 10/23/98 +0200, Anonymous wrote:
>Trees cannot be indicted for assasination
>
>-Bono Kennedy

Which prosecutor was it who said that he could get a
grand jury to indict a ham sandwich if he wanted to?


        




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 00:31:44 +0800
To: Vin McLellan , e$@vmeng.com
Subject: dbts: Dunkin Donuts, The Mysticism of Identity, Venture Capital,and Talking Frogs
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 12:18 AM -0400 on 10/23/98, Vin McLellan, speaking for legions of
SDTI/RSADSI fans (and, evidently, retainers), wrote:

> 	Jeeez, I hope no one else sprained a finger getting the current
> stock price for Security Dynamics (SDTI).

:-).

> Robert Hettinga
>  took certain, ummm, dramatic liberties as he
> paraphrased a Boston Globe column yesterday on Bay State stocks that had
> "been discounted so deeply they raise eyebrows."

Memory is a terrible thing to waste. It was midnight. The newspaper was in
the trash in a Dunkin Donuts in Malden somewhere. So? Shoot me? :-).

> "Security Dynamics Technologies Inc. of Bedford, a leader in computer
> security and encryption, has fallen from an April high of 42 1/2 to 12
> yesterday. It traded as low as 6 two weeks ago."

Close enough for an internet rant, I figure. If I though I needed a fact
checker, I should go write a column for the Globe, right?


Frankly, besides the Globe's greater-fool valuation of Verisign, which I
seem to have left in that wastebasket in Malden where it belongs, I can
hardly tell, in any gross sense, the difference between what I said about
SDTI/RSADSI/Verisign from memory and the extended quote Vin blessed us
with, which I have gratefully snipped here for brevity.

Again, I didn't say that SDTI wasn't making money, or even that it didn't
have a significant amount of cash on hand relative to its book value.
Which, because I'm not looking at their annual report, I don't know for a
fact, so don't, um, quote me; I only know what I remember from the papers.
If in fact SDTI did have a large cash hoard, it would make it a buy even in
Ben Graham's book. Which I said, if you remember. Okay. I inferred it.
Maybe. :-).


My point was, even in these days of sky high multiples, the market is
deeply discounting SDTI to the "consensus" estimate of its future cash
flow. Given SDTI's patent standing, and the extreme amount of substitutive
competition for the patents it does control in the long term, the
"consensus" opinion seems fair to me, including valuing the company, yes,
it *was* two weeks ago, lower than the "value" of it's Verisign investment
alone.

> 	Hettinga essays are like handball games: the damn ball is
> ricocheting off the side walls, both ends, the floor and the ceiling.
> Linear coherence and internal consistency are less important than the
> electrostatic energy and the rolling rhetorical thunder

Marvellous. Glad to give you the exercise. I had fun writing it. Nice to
know you had fun chasing my shots all over the court like that. Should I
spot you a few more points next time, just to make it more interesting?


> 	Hettinga's apparent scorn for modern cryptography's obsession with
> strong authentication  -- now manifest in the intensity with which
> professionals worry the issues around PKC binding, key certification,
> digital signatures, CA procedures (and in the demand for smartcards to
> secure X509 certs apart from the networked CPU) -- bespeaks a truly
> iconoclastic mind.

Thank you. I think.

Look, folks, "strong authentication" is not the problem. It's biometric
*identity* which is the problem. Cryptography gives us the ability to do
away with "identity"-based key-mapping altogether. A key is a permission to
do something specific with a microprocessor, no more, or less. It doesn't
"mean" anything else. Certainly, if you go back and look at the actual,
legal, definitions of "signature", or "certificate", they don't mean what
people like Verisign (or say, the State of Utah) says their authentication
technology does.

No offense to the august people who coined those appelations, including
Whit Diffie, et. al., but the words "signature", or "certificate" just
don't cut it, because they cause more confusion than they may be worth.
(Just like "digital bearer settlement"? ...Naww... :-))


Anyway, control of a given cryptographic key is completely orthogonal to
the idea of identity. You can map an identity to it, but you don't have to,
because possession of the key is "permission", "authority", enough, all by
itself. *Who* you give permission to, by name, fingerprint, or physical
address, doesn't matter. And, possession of that key is *only* a function
of cryptography and networks, and not law or biology.

And, so, the *only* time you need a biometrically-identified key is when
you're doing a book-entry transaction, which has been my point in this
whole discussion. You can't send someone to jail for making the wrong
book-entry unless you know who they are, of course. Fortunately, that will
change someday, and probably sooner than most people in the transaction
settlement business realize.

Frankly, the only people who need to know someone's physical identity, or
care about it, are the people who put money at risk in the first place, and
only until the transacted money in question is in their firm control. The
shorter a transaction's latency, the less you care who you're doing
business with. Ultimately, if you're doing an instantaneous digital bearer
transaction, you don't care at all, because it's underwriter validates the
authenticity of the certificate (real use of the word) at the time of the
transaction, and not the person who's giving them to you. Even your trust
of the underwriter is driven by the reputation of the underwriter's *key*
and not your knowlege of where the underwriter lives, right? I mean, you
can trash the reputation of the underwriter just by presenting
cryptographic proof of of the underwriter's fraud, making the underwriter
lose more, on a net present value basis, than what he would gain from the
value of the transaction in question, or even the pool of money in his
reserve account.


Besides, ultimately, creating hierarchies of "certificates" of those
key-to-person maps, ala Verisign/X.BlaBla, is not only a waste of time
economically, it's downright logically impossible. You run right into
Russell's paradox and Goedel's result, for one thing. At the very least,
you remove all the flexibility which makes the technology useful in the
first place.

So, yes, it's just like putting a giant hydrogen bag on a biplane in a
misguided effort to make it fly better  (to beat my metaphor like a dead
horse). :-). Even Verisign, or Entrust, and certainly not Thawte, don't
claim to sell certification hierarchies anymore. Probably because they ran
smack-dab into a bunch of consistance/completeness paradoxes in trying to
doing so.

The only economical solution, is, of course, short-span *local* trust
networks, where self reference is not a problem because the network makes
no pretensions at completeness. Where a buyer trusts the seller's
reputation to his own satisfaction because people *he* trusts say so, and,
more important, the known public reputation of the seller is a good one.

Certainly not that stranglehold on everyone's internet identity which is at
the heart of whatever valuation the "consensus" currently wants to put on
companies like Verisign.

By the way, an economical solution to the problem, where the seller doesn't
have to trust the buyer at all is, of course, digital bearer settlement.


Anyway, this mystification of identity, particularly on an internet where
it will prove economically foolish to do so, is what I have against the
whole X.BlaBla, Grand Unified Human Namespace Hierarchy folks. They're
chasing unicorns through the mists of Avalon, in my opinion.

In the end, the only relations established by keys to other keys on the net
will be *economic* ones, and I guarantee that the structure of *those*
relationships, once mapped, will *not* be hierarical, and only unified on a
relational basis, in the same way that free economies now function. Nor
will the primary purpose of those keys be to find whatever physical person
is controlling a given key at any point in its (probably short) lifetime.


> 	What tucked me in for the night was the declaration -- from R.H.,
> the avatar of DBTS, e-cash, and geodesic recursive auctions -- that
> (venture) capital is or will be counterproductive to entreprenurial
> enterprise in the New Age. Un huh. Doomed, as well, by the hesitation
> inherent in the merely human minds that control its flow (at least in Rob's
> universe of cybernetic fiscal structures.)

Well, I suppose if I can play fast and loose with the contents of the
august Boston Globe in the middle of the night, you're welcome to
mischaracterize me in the same fashion, but I hope I'm forgiven if I try to
patch it up here, just a little bit.


I think that venture capital spends most of its time thinking about how to
establish industrial-era monopolies on intellectual property in a world
where, eventually, it is only wetware -- skill, if you will -- that will
matter. Software, hardware, and resources will ultimately be dependant
activities and will decrease in relative value over time.

Software will be utterly replicable and will be sold recursively, and
untraceably, on a bearer basis, primarily because that's the cheapest way
to safely trade money for information on a ubiquitous geodesic public
network. Given that the price of information is rediculuously time-driven,
the price-structure software markets will be such that not only will the
only people who make the most money be people who actually *write* software
and not hire it done, and that software will be sold in smaller and smaller
bits because the transaction costs will be so low (hey, don't believe me,
believe Ronald Coase :-)), but, finally, the only way to make *new* money
is to create new software which sells. So, no software monopoly opportunity
there, because, you need wetware to make software, and, in a world of
totally anonymous, and cash transacted, free agency, fun legalistic
attempts at physical control, like non-disclosures and non-competes, not to
mention copyright and patent, will eventually be laughably un-useful.

Eventually, hardware itself will be "made" using software, and the machines
which fabricate hardware itself will themselves be dependant on software
for their own construction. The price of manufacturing falls as a result,
becomes geographically hyperdistributed, and, of course, nobody can control
the production of software, see above. So, no permanent hardware monopoly
there.

Resources are, even now, discovered, grown or extracted using the best
possible information, and in the long run, the best possible software. The
ownership of land, therefore, will be *economically* determined by who has
the best information or software to use it with. Notice that even with a
finite supply of land, the value of a given piece of land's output, in real
prices, has consistently fallen over history, because the value of the
information used to generate that output falls over time as well, and the
productivity gains from the use of that information are relatively
permanent and cumulative. So, no permanent resource monopoly opportunities
in resources, either. Ask your average aristocrat, or even a farmer, if you
don't believe me. :-).


So, yes, I'll let people quibble about how long "eventually" means, or even
what their definition of "is" is :-), and, in that rather large economic
lacuna, you could drive several late-industrial fortunes through, and we
may or may not need venture capitalists to exploit on those market
inefficiencies, right now, today.

Nonetheless, we converge to a world where venture capital is a waste of
time, and, I think that businesses like Yahoo, and several other internet
ventures whose revenues are not under water, are proving that. For most
first-mover internet companies, the continued interest of venture
capitalists in your company may be, like cocaine, god's paradoxical way of
telling you you're making a lot of money.

The quest for economic rents is at the heart of any economy, certainly, but
I think that, sooner or later, venture capitalists will simply be in the
way between producers and the retained earning their customers are too only
happy give them. Any requirement for equity itself will probably be
underwritten directly to the public someday, and, if you want to call the
intermediaries who underwrite that, what, micro-equity(?), "venture
capitalists", you'll get a lot of argument from the people who already do
equity underwriting today, the investment bankers.

So, you're right, Vin. I *am* blaming venture capitalists for eventually
not being able to think fast enough to keep up, and that, someday, most
underwriting of equity itself will be an extremely automated process. Hell,
most investment bankers themselves will tell you that underwriting is so
mechanical these days that the only real money's in mergers and
acquisitions, anyway.


> 	Gotta love a guy who can write a sentence like that, knot and and
> double-knot it into a gangly tapestry -- and then glue the whole thing
> across a wonderful image like a "dirigible biplane."
>
> 	(That's a Hettinga vehicle is ever there was one. Even in the
> imagination, it pushes or pulls large amounts of gas around in an unusually
> muscular way;-)

Thank you. Insult me any way you want, as long as you spell my name right,
I guess. Dismissing me personally as an iconoclast doesn't dismiss what
I've said, certainly.

In the meantime, it's nice to know that I can say something about a public
company in passing on a few email lists and drive so many of its
shareholders, employees, and retainers to such vigorous distraction. My
phone was ringing off the hook yesterday, which was, certainly, a lot of
fun.


In the meantime, Vin, hang on to your SDTI stock, but probably just for
it's residual value to some future investor, like SDTI evidently bought
RSADSI for its own residual value, and, aparently, for whatever mystical
value the market now puts on Verisign.

It's just a shame that RSADSI didn't just license all that cool crypto to
the developers outright and make a whole lot more money, rather than
playing dog in the manger with it for so long, up to, and probably
including, calling the down export control Feds on a hapless kitchen-table
crypto developer named Zimmermann.


So, right now, after all that, um, exercise, SDTI/RSADSI/Verisign reminds
me an awful lot of that old joke about the two old Texas spinsters who,
walking down a dusty road, came across a talking frog claiming to turn into
an oil baron, if only one of them would kiss him to prove it.

"A talking frog", said one of them, putting the frog in her apron pocket,
"is worth something."


Cheers,
Bob Hettinga
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 00:39:45 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: dog stocks
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Don't shoot me, shoot the remailer operator. :-).

*I* couldn't have said the following...

Now, where *is* that Walter Winchell hat?

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga

--- begin forwarded text


Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 12:20:28 +0200
From: Anonymous 
Comments: This message did not originate from the Sender address above.
	It was remailed automatically by anonymizing remailer software.
	Please report problems or inappropriate use to the
	remailer administrator at .
Subject: dog stocks
To: Robert Hettinga 
Status: U

of course this information should be laundered.... Remember Mr. McLellan is
an SDTI partisan.

SDTI *is* a dog stock.  It has problems.

(1) SecureID is decade-old technology.  They are ripe for competitors to
steal the business away from them, because of their business model.
They've yet to come up with any second trick for that pony.


(2) RSADSI is an anchor on the company.  RSADSI revenues have been flat for
six quarters; the most profitable thing they do is their little January
conference -- except for owning part of Verisign.  Sept. 30 2000 is fast
approaching and they have no plan on how they will compete once they no
longer have a patent to club people with.  The most profitable thing SDTI
could do would be to fire everyone in RSADSI, and use the monsy that would
be spent on their salaries to invest heavily in smart cards.

A

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 00:25:10 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Teleportation Study: Beam Me Up Scotty...
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Delivered-To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
X-Sender: believer@telepath.com
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 07:40:16 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com
From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Teleportation Study: Beam Me Up Scotty...
Mime-Version: 1.0
Sender: owner-ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
Precedence: list
Reply-To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  CNN
http://cnn.com/TECH/science/9810/22/science.teleport.reut/

Spooky teleportation study brings future closer

October 22, 1998
Web posted at: 4:50 PM EDT

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - They may not be able to ask Scotty to beam them up
yet, but California researchers
said Thursday they had completed the first "full" teleportation experiment.

They said they had teleported a beam of light across a laboratory bench.
They did not physically transport the
beam itself, but transmitted its properties to another beam, creating a
replica of the first beam.

"We claim this is the first bona fide teleportation," Jeff Kimble, a
physics professor at the California Institute of Technology, said in a
telephone interview.

Kimble thinks the experiment can eventually transform everyday life.

Scientists hope that quantum computers, which move information about in
this way rather than by using wires and silicon chips, will be infinitely
faster and more powerful than present-day computers.

"I believe that quantum information is going to be really important for our
society, not in five years or 10 years, but if we look into the 100-year
time frame it's hard to imagine that advanced societies don't use quantum
information," Kimble said.

"The appetite of society is so voracious for the moving and processing of
information that it will be driven to exploit even the crazy realm of
quantum physics."

Quantum teleportation allows information to be transmitted at the speed of
light -- the fastest speed possible -- without being slowed down by wires
or cables.

The experiment depends on a property known as entanglement -- what Albert
Einstein once described as "spooky action at a distance."

It is a property of atomic particles that mystifies even physicists.
Sometimes two particles that are a very long distance apart are nonetheless
somehow twinned, with the properties of one affecting the other.

"Entanglement means if you tickle one the other one laughs," Kimble said.

In the weird world of quantum physics, where the normal ideas of what is
solid or what is real do not apply, scientists can use these properties to
their advantage.

What Kimble's team did was create two entangled light beams -- streams of
photons. Photons, the basic unit of light, sometimes act like particles and
sometimes like waves.

They used these two entangled beams to carry information about the quantum
state of a third beam. The first two beams were destroyed in the process,
but the third successfully transmitted its properties over a distance of
about a yard , Kimble's team reported in the journal Science.

Last December a team of physicists in Innsbruck, Austria and a month later
another team in Rome said they did a similar thing, with single photons.
But Kimble said his team was able to verify what they had done, and also
used full light beams as opposed to single photons.

"Ours is an important advance beyond that," he said.

Although the Caltech team worked with light, Kimble thinks teleportation
could be applied to solid objects. For instance, the quantum state of a
photon could be teleported and applied to a particle, even to an atom.

"Way beyond sex change operations and genetic engineering, the quantum
state of one entity could be transported to another entity," Kimble said.
"We think we know how to do that."

In other words, an object's individual atoms would not be transported, but
transmitting its properties could create a perfect replica.

Could this mean the transporters of the television and movie
science-fiction series Star Trek, which beam people and objects for huge
distances, could one day be a reality?

"I don't think anybody knows the answer," Kimble said. "Let's don't
teleport a person -- let's teleport the smallest bacterium. How much
entanglement would we need to teleport such a thing?"

Would such a teleported bacterium actually be the same bacterium, or just a
very good copy?

"Again, no one knows for sure," Kimble said. But his team is working on it.

Copyright 1998 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved.
 (c) 1998 Cable News Network, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------


****************************************************
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     majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com
with the message:
     (un)subscribe ignition-point email@address

or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email@address
****************************************************
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****************************************************

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Richard Stallman 
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 02:29:52 +0800
To: blake@wizards.com
Subject: Re: propose: `cypherpunks license' (Re: Wanted: Twofish source code)
In-Reply-To: <004801bdf3a1$f168e6b0$b401010a@is_blake.wizards.com>
Message-ID: <199810231755.LAA18635@wijiji.santafe.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



    This assumes that writing and selling proprietary software is 'the
    ability to control other people'.

Making a program proprietary is controlling people, pure and simple.
It is a matter of restricting users from sharing, studying and/or
changing the program--restricting users from cooperating.

    but people *choose* to accept the restrictions of non-free
    software for any number of reasons.

People often choose to give up important freedoms--usually because
they are offered a limited choice, and the other alternatives seem to
involve short-term pain.  One can understand why people do this, but
the effects are still dangerous.  When almost everyone gives up
certain freedoms, those few who keep them may be subject to various
sorts of pressure that only a few determined people would resist.

The crucial question is not whether people had some limited range of
choice available.  It is, what limited the choice?  Was it limited by
nature, or did someone deliberately deny people the other better
choices?  And if so, was that wrong?

      I do not see anyone being coerced into
    using it by threat of physical force.

Physical force is not the only thing that can hurt people or
systematically degrade society, so whether it is employed not a
crucial issue.  But, as it happens, physical force generally does play
a role in proprietary software.  Most proprietary software developers
make use of laws that place the power of the state at their service in
stopping users from sharing.

Using physical force is sometimes justified--for example, to prevent a
wrong.  In this spirit, copyleft uses laws and state power to prevent
others from using the very same laws and power to restrict users.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 01:05:34 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Cryptographic Dog Stocks, The Dirigible Biplane, and  Sendingthe  Wizards Back to Menlo Park
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 1:19 AM -0400 on 10/23/98, Tim May wrote:

> I've been a critic of some of Bob's "exuberance," his tendency to go off on
> rhetorical flights of fancy, his irritating "ums" and "ers" and ":-}"s, and
> his generally opaque writing style.

No accounting for taste, or the lack thereof, for that matter.

> I think there's a kernel of good thinking in there, but his attention seems
> to flit about. And he seems more interesting in cutesy turns of phrase than
> in persuasive exposition.

What? "Too many notes", Signore Solieri? :-).


> If there's stuff there, it's lost in the freneticism.

Don't worry, Tim, you know it all already. Everything I ever learned on
this stuff, I learned from you, anyway.

Execpt the finance, of course. :-).

You know where the 'd' key is, and I bet you even know how to use your
killfile, if you tried.


> I guess some folks are amazed that anyone can write the way Bob does. Me, I
> was never amazed by the writings of Detweiler, Toto, or Hettinga.

Right back atcha Tim. And don't forget to shoot back at the Feds when they
fly the black helicopters over your house. Otherwise, they might not even
know you're there, hmmm?

Oh, well. You can't always pick your friends. Or your friend's nose, for
that matter. 

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 01:09:02 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: bank cosortium to form CA
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 00:38:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: Rich Salz 
To: cryptography@c2.net
Subject: Re: bank cosortium to form CA
Sender: owner-cryptography@c2.net

I seem to have gotten myself dropped from the list, but luckily a
friend forwarded (part of?) Steve's posting and Ben's (snarky :)
followup.  Let me try to give some details.  The WSJ had a one-day
exclusive, and their coverage was (from our perspective ;) not the
best.  You can find some other (free) coverage at www.wired.com,
http://www.americanbanker.com/cgi-bin/read_intrastory?981021TECH999,
and www.businesswire.com (sorry I don't have all the URL's convenient).

Here's some details.  I am not an official CertCo spokesman.
Official press contacts can get contact info and collatoral from
www.certco.com.  The following comes from our press release,
supporting Q&A, etc.

We're creating a new company (name being chosen; I'll call it GTO
for global trust organization -- the PR says enterprise, but GTE
is already in use :).  The GTO is aiming for online *business-to-business*
commerce.  The B2B point is key:  we're in the high-value commercial
transaction area.  Don't think buying some books from amazon.com,
think of Texas buying all their textbooks.

The GTO will be running a root CA and a "repository" where the CA
will publish its certs and CRL's.  The root will use CertCo's
RootAuthority.  Our Multi-Step signing can take a private key and
split it into a set of keyps called fragments.  We then destroy
the original key.  When enough fragments sign something (quorum
determined at the time the fragments are generated, and are usually
like "5 of 7"), those signatures can be combined (mathematically)
and the result looks like it was signed by the initial key.  So we
can take a key, spread its fragments around the world, and have a
very secure root.  That's step one.

Step two is the root CA will certify CA's for member banks.  These
are big global banks each having billions in assets.  (The initial
eight banks are ABN Amro, Bank of America, Bankers Trust, Barclays
Bank, Chase Manhattan, Citibank, Deutsche Bank, and Hypo Vereinsbank.
Others have expressed interest in joining.)  These banks will issue
certs -- 1K keys initially, on smartcards -- to personnel at their
corporate customers.  The rules by which these banks issue these
cards, how the companies and employees treat the cards, notify
banks in case of turnover or compromise, etc., are all part of
joining.  We call these the "system rules."  It's way more than a
CPS (certification practice statement); it is a common contractual
arrangement that the banks and their customers will all be issuing
and handling and processing certs/cards in the same way.  That's
step two.

This step is perhaps the most important.  If someone at Tire Supplier
receives a signed email message from someone at Car Maker, and they
can see that CM's cert is within the GTO PKI, then they can trust
it as much as they trust their own certs.

Step three is online verification.  TS can present the CM's cert
to their bank and get verification that the cert is valid.  TS's
bank can trust CM's bank because of the common adherance to the
rules.  One of the rules for joining is that you treat peer banks
with as much trust as you trust yourself, provided they can be
shown to be following the rules.  Or perhaps shown to not be breaking
the rules. :)

The GTO believes businesses will trust these decisions to their
banks; that they'll pay the banks to manage the risk of trusting
the identities to which the certs attest.  (Hence, the for-profit
intent :)

Step four.  Now, suppose CarMaker sends a "request to buy US$1M
worth of tires" to TireSupplier.  TS can send CM's cert, a hash of
the message, and a request for "assurance" to his (TS's) bank.  TS
can decide that their exposure, should CM prove to not be who the
certificate claim, is US$100K.  So TS asks his bank for $100K assurance,
for a period of 30 days.  If it turns out that, say someone stole
CM's cert, or CM left the company and is now working somewhere else
buy using old credentials, or CM's bank didn't issue the CRL in a
timely manner, etc., TS's bank will pay TS the US$100K.  The system
rules include procedures for due diligence, arbitration, and (last
resort) legal recourse should TS need to "file a claim" on their
assurance.

Or, to put it in terms of the PR materials, business partners can
get warranties on the identity of their trading partners online,
over the Internet, as a new service from their bank.

Step five is to extend the hierarchy down so that the big banks
can "charter" or "sponsor" smaller banks.  The L1 might be a service
bureau for the L2's, an L2 might have its own CA, etc...

It is the GTO's plan to publish our certificate profiles (derived
from PKIX), directory schemas, system rules, network protocols,
smartcard requirements, etc.  It will be an open system

I can't talk about schedules, other than to say it's very aggressive. :)

If you're in the Boston area, Dan Geer will be giving a talk on
this at the November meeting of the Digital Commerce Society of
Boston, For more info, send "info dcsb" in the body of a message
to  . If you want to subscribe to
the DCSB e-mail list, send "subscribe dcsb" in the body of a message
to  .

Hope this helps.  I'll be out of the office Friday, but will try to answer
any questions I can next week.
	/r$

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 01:53:19 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Forwarded mail...
Message-ID: <199810231733.MAA12984@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: 23 Oct 1998 16:40:03 -0000
> From: lcs Mixmaster Remailer 
> Subject: Re: Women cannot commit rape? (fwd)

> > > This is true in the United States as well.  That's why in every state,
> > 
> > I don't believe that is accurate. Just about 2 years ago two women were
> > sentenced to prison because they kidnapped and raped a man.
> > 
> > Perhaps one of the more versed in case law members might remember it.
> > 
> 
> Could it have involved penetration with a blunt object? That would be
> more forceful than the "rape" in the French case that started the thread.

As I remember the case two women kidnapped and sexualy assaulted a
hitchhiker. Their defence was that it wasn't possible to rape man against
his will. The jury found them guilty of the charge.

I don't have a lot of spare time right now (I've had 3 full days off in the
last 6 weeks and have to work Sunday) so I am unable to follow up and
find the specifics.

If nobody happens to remember it we might table it until I can get the time
to find the specifics.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 01:51:54 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Practical Free-Space Quantum Key Distribution over 1 km
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


To: cryptography@c2.net
Cc: gs.satellite@Qualcomm.com, gs.security@Qualcomm.com
Subject: Practical Free-Space Quantum Key Distribution over 1 km
From: Paul Pomes 
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc.
X-url: 
X-PGP-Key: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 08:04:51 -0700
Sender: owner-cryptography@c2.net

W.T. BUTTLER et al: Practical Free-Space Quantum Key Distribution over 1 km
Physical Review Letters, vol 81, no 15, pp 3051-3301 (1998).


Abstract:

A working free-space quantum key distribution system has been developed and
tested over an outdoor optical path of ~ 1 km at Los Alamos National
Laboratory under nighttime conditions.  Results show that free-space quantum
key distribution can provide secure real-time key distribution between
parties who have a need to communicate secretly.  Finally, we examine the
feasibility of surface to satellite quantum key distribution.

/pbp

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 06:34:46 +0800
To: Mok-Kong Shen 
Subject: Re: PRNGs and testers.
In-Reply-To: <19981021151835.A26267@krdl.org.sg>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981023145454.008dd100@m7.sprynet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 09:00 AM 10/23/98 +0200, Mok-Kong Shen wrote:
>David Honig wrote:
>
>> Recall that Ueli's Universal Statistical Test
>> is valid only for real sources of entropy.
>> PRNGs have zero entropy asymptotically ;-)
>
>Sorry that I haven't yet understood. Could you explain a bit more
>from the entropy point of view? In my opinion, a statistical
>test does not and should not take into account how a sequence
>being tested is obtained. Given is simply a sequence and no other
>information and the test should give an answer.
>
>M. K. Shen

A *sequence* isn't random; a process is.   A sequence may be the result of
some process, but its always a sample of a process.

When you ask, "Is some process random", you *must* define "random"
operationally, thus, finitely.



A test for structure, such as Marsaglia's "Diehard" suite, 
measures various statistics (structure) of a sample and compares
them to the measurements you'd get for (abstractly modelled, "real")
randomness.  If the particular tests you've chosen 
don't see some structure that's present in the sample, you'll mistakenly 
accept the process as "random".  Diehard is nice because it includes
complex stats and some Monte Carlo evaluations.

Marsaglia's test was designed to find problems in PRNGs, which he was
working on.

Maurer suggests a way to compute the entropy of the data, taken as N-bit
blocks, and computes the value you'd compute for random data.  His test
consumes a lot more data, and is 

Now, a PRNG has a finite amount of (unknown) initial internal state.
This state is expanded into the output stream, which goes on forever,
thus the finite initial entropy is spread infinitestimally thin.

A true RNG, even an imperfect one, generates a constant amount of entropy
per symbol ("bit per baud" averaged over any sufficiently large window).

-----------------
An experiment

Run a block cipher in a feedback mode, generating a large data file.
Any good cipher will pass Diehard's tests for structure.  So will
a true random file.  

(I've posted directions for producing decent true randomness from
a detuned FM radio, soundcard, and 8->1 parity-reduction filtering.)

Now run Maurer's test; I've posted a version for blocksize = 16.  
The cipher-PRNG output will not have the entropy expected for randomness.
The physical-random file will.


-----------------------------

D. Honig

"When horsemeat is outlawed, only outlaws will eat horsemeat"
	--California Voter Information Pamphlet













  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: lcs Mixmaster Remailer 
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 23:53:05 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: rules of engagement
Message-ID: <19981023152002.24725.qmail@nym.alias.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Adam Back wrote:
> 
> Re. the discussion of things like "first they came for Jim Bell, but I
> didn't speak up because I wasn't a tax protester, and then they came
> for Toto but I didn't speak up because I'm not crazy", etc.
> 
> The rules of the game from what I can see is that if one is outspoken,
> one either needs to be squeaky clean, or have enough funds to hire
> good lawyers, or to be anonymous.

[Notwithstanding my preference for the latter]...

Is it the cypherpunk response to back off with our tail between our legs?
I hope not.

I smiled when I read about Toto's plans to appear in court in a perl-RSA
T-shirt. Toto has balls so big he needs a wheel barrow to get around.

> That is to say, I suspect that Jim would not have been locked up if he
> had not a) used false social security numbers, b) not been involved
> with fake courts, c) not collected IRS employees home addresses, and
> d) not planted the stink bomb.

And, more importantly, if crypto-anachy and removal of governments weren't
on the cypherpunk agenda. Lets not pretend that Jim and Toto (and to a lesser
degree the scrutinee J Choate) are not scapegoats for all of our opinions.

> The AP rants are perfectly defensible free speech and free-wheeling
> political discussion.

Yes. "defensible", but they weren't defended. Jim pleaded. As would anyone
in the face of sufficient pressure.

> Similarly with Toto, the rants would have been ok, without a) the
> mockup non-functional "bomb" symbolically planted in the court house
> basement or where-ever it was, b) using real IRS employees, and judges
> names in his rant (apparently in support of Jim Bell), c) having
> tourettes syndrome.

The rants are ok anyway. They are clearly metaphors. But the prosecutors
aren't playing fair. The man is "dangerous". And not because he wrote "bomb"
in crayon on a cardboard box. But because he made waves. Waves that we caught.
Waves that the straights and sheeple might catch.

> His rants,
> when he was coherent, were well written, and humorously sarcastic
> observations about the increasingly facist state.
> 
> Just an observation.

Just.

> Having blemishes, or being vulnerable in some way makes one an easy
> target for governments.  Tourettes syndrome clearly isn't helping
> Toto's case -- they can basically lock him up as "crazy and dangerous"
> or whatever for as long as they like with no pretense of trial or
> anything if it came to it.

I thought this might be because of his excessive use of metaphor rather
than a persecution of a medical condition unrelated to mental competence.

> Clearly I think one should be able to say wtf one wants to, and in
> general I endeavor to do just that.  But I am suggesting that
> cypherpunks individually stear clear of grey areas, such as ...
> Tim May style "I've got X number of now illegal armament Y",

I took the frequency of little Timmy May's 2nd ammendment rifs as a sign
that he was clean on that score. (Tim always seems to be a couple of steps
ahead).

> My comment is that cypherpunks might be trying to hasten the demise of
> the nation state by deployment of tools of identity and financial
> privacy so that the individual can free himself from the burdens of
> the state, but cypherpunks themselves (at least the non-anonymous
> ones) should be squeaky clean.
>
> Write code, let someone else do the tax protesting, gun law
> protesting, and let someone else have the personalised arguments with
> over-zealous government employees.
> 
> Financial privacy and anonymity code, is the most caustic
> anti-government expression one can utter.
> 
> Adam
> --

You seem a bit down at the end there.

> print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<>
> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 23:42:39 +0800
To: John Gilmore 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




John Young wrote:
> 
> Source: Fax from John Gilmore
> 
> [Form]
> 
> AO 110 (Rev. 12/89) Subpoena to Testify Before Grand Jury
> _______________________________________________________________________
> 
>                      UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
>                     WESTERN DISTRICT OF WASHINGTON
> _______________________________________________________________________
> 
> To:
>     John Gilmore                    SUBPOENA TO TESTIFY
>     210 Clayton Street              BEFORE GRAND JURY
>     San Francisco, CA 94117
> 
>                               SUBPOENA FOR:
>                               [X] PERSON   [X] DOCUMENT(S) OBJECT(S)
> 
>  YOU ARE HEREBY COMMANDED to appear before the Grand Jury of the United
> States District Court at the place, date and time specified below.
> 
...
>  YOU ARE ALSO COMMANDED to bring with you the following document(s) or
> object(s):*
> 
>         c.   Any an all messages, correspondence, or e-mail,
>              received from or involving CARL JOHNSON, C.J. PARKER,
>              TOTO, TRUTHMONGER, A FIEND, to specifically include
>              correspondence received from CARL JOHNSON while he was
>              in Federal custody.

Please include _this_.

I herebery swear that I wrote all messages signed "Toto", "TruthMonger" and "A Fiend"
sent to the various cypherpunks lists and I am definitely *not*  CARL JOHNSON,
or C.J. PARKER.

Toto




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 04:24:39 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Human Action Gone
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


From: "Mises Institute News" 
To: 
Subject: Human Action Gone
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 13:53:07 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3
Precedence: bulk
Sender: miseslist-owner@mail.mises.org
Status: U

Thanks to an overwhelming response, our stock of other Human Action editions
is now gone.

The Scholar's Edition will be available November 23, 1998.

This is a re-release of the original, unaltered 1949 treatise that shaped a
generation of Austrians and made possible the intellectual movement that is
leading the global charge for free markets.

Made available for the first time in decades, exclusively through the Ludwig
von Mises Institute, this edition uses extraordinary materials and the best
of modern technology, combined with ancient standards of craftsmanship in
the tradition of Oxford University's Clarendon Press. This magnificent work
is produced for the ages.

• Carefully set in the classic, readable, and beautiful Jansen typeface,
including the 1954, 30-page index prepared under Mises's supervision, the
most extensive ever compiled;

• Printed on stunning pure white, acid-free Finch Fine 50 lb. paper;

• Covered in spectacular dark azure Odyssey cloth from the Netherlands, the
finest natural-finish, moisture-resistant book fabric in the world;

• Protected by a strong slipcase from the famous Old Dominion company,
covered in matching Odyssey cloth and featuring old-fashioned thumb-cuts for
easy handling;

• Secured by the finest caliper Binders Board;

• Graced with antique-stone endpapers from Ecologic Fibers;

• Casebound with the strongest Smyth-sewn signatures;

• Fitted at head and foot with silken endbands, thick wrapped for
durability;

• Complimented with a double-faced satin ribbon place marker, and portrait
of Mises;

• Stamped with brilliant, real non-tarnishing gold foil from Japan's Nakai
International;

• Produced at R.R. Donnelly's famed Crawfordsville Bindery, where America's
finest books are assembled.

All told, The Scholar's Edition looks exactly like the classic work it is,
ready for a lifetime (or two) of use. The introduction, by Hans-Hermann
Hoppe, Jeffrey Herbener, and Joseph Salerno-based on newly discovered
archives-tells of the tragic and glorious history of this seminal work, and
of its bright future as the manifesto of liberty.

Human Action: The Scholar's Edition is the foundation of every library of
freedom. You will want a treasured copy in your collection. And if you want
to send a copy as a gift to a friend or family member, we'll wrap it
appropriately at no charge, and enclose a card in your name.

The price for this nine-hundred-page masterpiece is $65. Your credit card
will
not be charge until the order is shipped. Call 800-636-4737, or order
securely through our on-line catalog at www.mises.org

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mok-Kong Shen 
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 22:49:51 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Break DES Fast!
In-Reply-To: <90914889921502@cs26.cs.auckland.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <36309E91.6A5F6688@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Peter Gutmann wrote:
> 
> Dear Friend,
> 
> My name is Dave Rhodes.  In 1997 my cipher designs had all been broken, my

I don't know the English term but in my native language what is
described is call 'chaining letters', supposed to be a method to
become rich very rapidly. That was illegal, though.

M. K. Shen




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: palmdevcon@palm.com
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 08:07:16 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Palm Computing Platform Worldwide Developer Conference: Register Today!
Message-ID: <199810232339.QAA06649@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Here it is...


It's not what you think....it's better.

You can't afford to miss the Palm Computing Platform Worldwide Developer
Conference, December 1-4, 1998, at the Santa Clara Convention Center.  Why?

During the conference, Palm Computing will unveil its Internet strategy.
You won't want to miss hearing how the company that's driving the future of
handheld computing will demonstrate how the net will never be the same.

You can also choose from more than 90 hours of keynote, business,
technical, and platform sponsor sessions. See major products from IBM,
Symbol Technologies, Qualcomm, Inc., and also attend sessions hosted by
each of companies along with other sponsors including Apple, Certicom, Lotus, Oracle, Puma, Sun, 
Sybase and TRG.

And discover for yourself why the Palm Computing platform really is the new
force in computing.

No wonder more than 10,000 developers are already providing software and
hardware solutions for the Palm Computing platform.

What are you waiting for? Register today!

For a detailed agenda and online registration, go to our conference
website: http://www.palmdevcon.com.


See you in December!





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: lcs Mixmaster Remailer 
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 01:08:53 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Women cannot commit rape? (fwd)
Message-ID: <19981023164003.26281.qmail@nym.alias.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





Jim Choate wrote:
> 
> Forwarded message:
> 
> > Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 22:50:50 -0500
> > From: Kevin Elliott 
> > Subject: Re: Women cannot commit rape?
> 
> > This is true in the United States as well.  That's why in every state,
> 
> I don't believe that is accurate. Just about 2 years ago two women were
> sentenced to prison because they kidnapped and raped a man.
> 
> Perhaps one of the more versed in case law members might remember it.
> 

Could it have involved penetration with a blunt object? That would be
more forceful than the "rape" in the French case that started the thread.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 06:03:19 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Data Encryption and the First Amendment: Pete duPont
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





Hey *I* want some of the 4096 bit encryption!

:-).

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga

"My coun-try 'tis of thee, land of plu-to-cracy..."
Forbes/duPont 2000 ;-).

--- begin forwarded text


Delivered-To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
X-Sender: believer@telepath.com
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 15:06:12 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com
From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Data Encryption and the First Amendment: Pete duPont
Mime-Version: 1.0
Sender: owner-ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
Precedence: list
Reply-To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  Intellectual Capital
http://www.IntellectualCapital.com/issues/98/1022/iced.asp

 Data Encryption and the First Amendment
 by Pete du Pont
 October 22, 1998

 The microprocessor and the Internet have created an
 information revolution that is sweeping the globe.
 This revolution is putting information once available
 only to the media, political and intellectual elite into
 the kitchens of ordinary people all across America
 and opening previously locked cabinets in
 government, industry and academe.

 In short, the information revolution is empowering
 people; it is giving them the tools and the information to make informed
 choices for themselves. People can more easily exchange information
 with one another -- buy, sell, discuss and decide among different
 options.

 Already, e-mail exceeds regular mail usage by 10-to-1. Forrester
 Research reports that $8 billion in goods and services were traded
 over the Internet in 1997; by 2002, 21 million homes will be doing
 online financial transactions worth $327 billion.

 Essential to this commercial and personal communication is security.
 We want to know that our information travels safely, without alteration
 or eavesdropping, and that there is neither information theft nor identity
 fraud. Which means that we must encrypt our data, so that only
 intended parties can access it.

 A glimpse into the future

 In the U.S. banking system, for example, just two of the largest
 fund-transfer systems transmit more than 300,000 electronic
 fund-transfer messages worth $2 trillion every day. For obvious
 security reasons, the Treasury Department already requires that all
 electronic fund transfers be encrypted.

 For those of us doing commerce at a somewhat smaller order, or
 simply e-mail or information transfers, security is equally compelling.
 One of the primary tasks of government is to protect the interests and
 property of citizens, and in the information and e-commerce age,
 enhancing the encryption of data to ensure its integrity should be one
 of our government's priorities.

 The good news is that encryption technology is galloping forward.
 What was state of the art a few years ago is now rearview-mirror
 encryption. Today, 56-bit encryption, with its 72 trillion combinations, is
 giving way to 128-bit encryption. A Canadian company called Jaws
 Technology has a new technology with 4,096-bit encryption. Cracking
 it, its creators say, would require the equivalent of hitting 1,000
 consecutive holes in one on the golf course from a 150-yard tee.

 The bad news is that our government is demanding limits on
 encryption technology and demanding access to all our encrypted
 messages -- financial, commercial and ordinary e-mail.

 The government's efforts began with the Clipper chip in 1993. The
 Clipper chip would have required encryption users to submit their
 encryption keys to a government database. It met with such a hail of
 objections from technical and civil liberties groups that it never came to
 pass, but the idea lives. The government currently is seeking both the
 funding of a huge new encryption technology center and the means to
 access any computer communication individuals might generate.

 The case against limits on encryption

 It seems to me that all of this is wrongheaded, that these demands for
 government access to our computer transmissions are based on three
 false assumptions.

The first is that government can legislate encryption standards. The
 truth is that encryption technology is moving too rapidly for statutory law
 to keep up. For example, the National Bureau of Standards at one
 point decided that the nation should have a single 56-bit key encryption
 algorithm, an idea almost immediately obsolete as technology went to
 128-bit algorithms and higher.

 Second is the idea that regulation can prevent criminals from acquiring
 unbreakable encryption. The analogy here is a familiar one: Does
 anyone believe that gun-control laws -- gun registration or prohibition of
 ownership, for example -- will keep guns out of the hands of criminals?

 Similarly, encryption-strength ceilings, key escrow or "trapdoors" in
 computer programs to allow government access will limit personal and
 business usage by citizens and slow criminals not at all. The
 international market is too accessible and its encryption offerings
 equally or more sophisticated than U.S. technology.

 Third is the idea that such regulations are cost-free to people using
 computer technology. Key escrow and trapdoor systems would make
 encryption for U.S. businesses and individuals less secure, more
 vulnerable and more easily broken. Weakening the encryption security
 of American users is a not a policy in the national interest. Forcing
 information vulnerabilities upon individuals and businesses is
 weakening national security, not strengthening it.

 Most egregious in such encryption regulation is the massive invasion
 of civil liberties it represents. The idea that various government
 agencies, from the FBI to health-care agencies, the IRS and the
 Justice Department, will have instant access to our Quicken programs,
 e-mail and data transmissions is both dangerous and unsettling.

 Liberty in the 21st century

 It is not as if the government has a good record regarding individual
 privacy. President Nixon's FBI tracked its enemies; the Clinton IRS
 seems to be auditing unfriendly 501(c)(3)s; and some 800 FBI files
 mysteriously found their way to Craig Livingstone's pizza-and-beer
 sessions.

 No doubt there is a unique, it-will-never-happen-again exculpatory
 reason for these violations of civil liberties. But if the government has
 the power to intercept and use your data for its purposes, it will do so
 sooner or later. That is a truth, and no amount of reassurance should
 lead us to believe otherwise.

 From Edmund Burke ("people never give up their liberties but under
 some delusion") to Woodrow Wilson ("the history of liberty is a history
 of limitations of governmental power, not the increase of it"),
 Americans have jealously guarded their freedom. The next frontier of
 free speech will be the technology of encryption.

 In the 18th century, the First Amendment was essential to guarding free
 speech. Protecting the empowering technology of data transmission
 will be just as essential to maintaining liberty in the 21st century.

---
 Pete du Pont is the editor of IntellectualCapital.com. He is a former
Republican
 governor and congressman from Delaware. His e-mail address is
 petedupont@intellectualcapital.com.
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------


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with the message:
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--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 00:39:47 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: CyberScam
Message-ID: <199810231545.RAA01452@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 09:03 PM 10/22/98 -0700, Kevlar wrote:
>And you were just kidding.....

I wasn't kidding.  I was absolutely sincere when I told him to shove
a bowling ball up his ass.

>http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/zdnn_smgraph_display/0,4436,2151220,00.html
>Or search zdnet's site for "scam" and choose "A Bull In Bull Market".

I read the article, and if that level of cluelessness is indicative of the
mentality of your typical online trader, then they deserve what they
get.  I found a couple of quotes especially amusing.  These are both
from John Reed Stark, another official-type thrown into the internet
without a fucking life preserver, it would seem.

    This lack of information gives rise to a situation "that ends up with
    victims not investing but gambling,"

Oh yeah, aside from these scammers, the stock market is otherwise
a really solid, robust investment scheme.  Playing the stock market
is a gamble, pure and simple, and anyone dumb enough to listen
to the likes of some random asshole touting his crappy stock deserves
what they get.  Darwinism as applied to capitalism.

    "Combine the Web's culture of trust, stir in the greatest bull market
    in history, add stocks that genuinely have had phenomenal growth,
    and you have victims who don't have any reason to disbelieve
    promises of guaranteed 20 percent returns."

The Web's culture of trust?  Oh good, another clueless idiot in charge
of managing internet services.  What culture of trust is it that I've
missed in my internet travels?  Is there some online place chock full
of trusted souls, some Cyber-commune, that I missed?

Oh well, like I said, any idiot that would buy into such an obviously
fraudulent solicitation deserves what they get.  Is it just working in a
new medium that makes people such blatant morons, or is it simply
indicative of the intelligence of your average American?  I'd have to
say that I'm inclined to believe the latter.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 06:42:08 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 6:00 PM -0400 on 10/23/98, Somebody wrote:


> This looks like spam, except it is coming from a list regular.
> Someone spoofing you?

No, actually they aren't. I have no connection with the Von Mises institute,
either.

However, if you don't want to shell out big bucks for an archival quality
version (and help a good cause in the process) you should at least go to your
library, and, if they don't have a (not-so spiffy :-)) version of von Mises'
_Human Action_ there, you should have them Inter-Library loan it for you.

Another great book in the same vein, actually better, as a first read, is
Friedrich Hayek's _The Road to Serfdom_. Another famous 50-year old book,
pissed upon by statists and leftists for generations, and only now being seen
as one of the best economic books of the century. The most recent edition even
has a forward by Milton Freidman. (Hayek won the Nobel just like Freidman did,
but I don't remember if von Mises did.)

Austrian-school economists rule, d00dz. Enjoy!

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.5.5

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pFosbkjqd90dF8mDLeaIVn+2yiJe0A49OHH9NhBc/Wa5MrTzqSaokw==
=rOM2
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Eric Cordian 
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 07:44:24 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: ITAR and Codebreaking
Message-ID: <199810232323.SAA02700@wire.insync.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Does anyone know how ITAR applies to cryptographic source code which can
not directly be used to encrypt or decrypt files?

Specifically, do we need to do some horrible export-controlled thing for
source code which contains a very straightforward reference implementation
of DES, and whose output is a file of integers defining a satisfiability
problem instantated for a specific plaintext/ciphertext pair? 

If the answer to this question is "yes," would someone be willing to
donate a few meg on an export-controlled crypto site that we could link
to?

Many thanks. 

-- 
Sponsor the DES Analytic Crack Project
http://www.cyberspace.org/~enoch/crakfaq.html





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 07:43:08 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Mildly opinionated rambling on the computer/boardgame flamewar (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810232335.SAA14639@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 16:48:37 -0500
> From: "David \"Inky\" Scott" 
> Subject: Re: Mildly opinionated rambling on the computer/boardgame flamewar

> I've said it before and I'll say it again. You can't send a computer to
> the corner store for snacks and drinks. Nor can six or seven players
> easily cluster around a computer game all at once and be working on
> setting up their next turn/movement/etc. Nor is computer gaming a truly
> social gathering, which is the primary reason why many of us play these
> games.

Well *current* games certainly aren't. But that is no indication they must
be that way.

A good example platform that is currently available is Beowulf Linux. If
each player were to ethernet their machines via a hub then they would all in
effect be participating in a game equivalent in human interaction to any
boardgame. This would allow the concept of distributed game servers. If
you're only playing on your machine it's going to be limited. As the number
of machines increases the capability goes up as well. Of course it could be
done over regular machines without the support in the kernel. Set up an api
that provides access to an analog of the 'r' commands in Unix. Then the
necessary graphics and sound engines, graphics libraries, rules engine, ai.
Change the graphics libraries, rules engine, and ai and you have a
completely different game. This would allow two different modes of playfield
geometry. One would be where every player has an identical map. Another
would be where each player has a different map and they are edge-to-edge
according to some algorithm (which wouldn't have to be Cartesian). Have the
basic structure of the game be a 3 dimension, time enabled (it has a game
clock) array. By changing the scale of the display 'unit cube' play at
different levels could be engaged in. When you're networked to other players
your local ai might give you hints or suggestions, or the ai's could take on
the role of moderator. Maket he basic interface webable and you're ready to
go.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 07:54:54 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Mildly opinionated rambling on the computer/boardgame flamewar (fwd) (OOOPS...)
Message-ID: <199810232336.SAA14707@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Sorry for that. My fingers had a mind of their own...;)


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 02:48:02 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Men can be raped
Message-ID: <199810231821.UAA13709@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Of course it's possible to rape a man.  Just because he becomes erect
doesn't mean he desires sexual intercourse.  People are more than the
instictive reactions their body produces.  Someone who chooses not to
engage in sex, but is coerced into doing so, is raped, regardless of
his body's physical reactions.  The key element is coercion.  Erections
or other bodily responses have nothing to do with it.

Consider a murderer who ties his victim to a chair and rigs a diabolical
device.  A hammer strikes the victim's tendon below his knee, causing
his leg to reflexively kick and set off a bomb.  The murdere is caught
but argues that the person committed suicide, since he kicked the bomb
switch himself.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 06:43:37 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: so, what did Toto *do*, exactly to get locked up? (Re: rules of engagement
In-Reply-To: <19981023152002.24725.qmail@nym.alias.net>
Message-ID: <199810232130.WAA31234@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Anonymous writes:
> Adam Back wrote:
> > Re. the discussion of things like "first they came for Jim Bell, but I
> > didn't speak up because I wasn't a tax protester, and then they came
> > for Toto but I didn't speak up because I'm not crazy", etc.
> > 
> > The rules of the game from what I can see is that if one is outspoken,
> > one either needs to be squeaky clean, or have enough funds to hire
> > good lawyers, or to be anonymous.
> 
> [Notwithstanding my preference for the latter]...
> 
> Is it the cypherpunk response to back off with our tail between our legs?
> I hope not.

Fuck no.  Just fight smart.  Don't do dumb things which make you a
target for other than things you are immediately interested in
achieving.

> I smiled when I read about Toto's plans to appear in court in a perl-RSA
> T-shirt. Toto has balls so big he needs a wheel barrow to get around.

Toto is on occasion an inspiration.  I like Toto's attitude, it rocks,
his "FuckYouNess" or whatever he would call it is awesome.  As long as
all he is doing is tapping away behind a keyboard, the coherent
version of Toto rules at caustic rants.

> > That is to say, I suspect that Jim would not have been locked up if he
> > had not a) used false social security numbers, b) not been involved
> > with fake courts, c) not collected IRS employees home addresses, and
> > d) not planted the stink bomb.
> 
> And, more importantly, if crypto-anachy and removal of governments
> weren't on the cypherpunk agenda.

I was just saying that it is smarter to fight one fight at a time.
Crypto-anarchy provides a generic solution to problems of increasingly
facist governments.  Getting yourself locked up for uninteresting
things does not further your interests.

> Lets not pretend that Jim and Toto (and to a lesser degree the
> scrutinee J Choate) are not scapegoats for all of our opinions.

It is difficult to tell exactly why Jim was incarcerated because the
IRS people may have alternate motives.  However, I suspect Jim Bell's
woes are more to do with involvement with the fake courts, and the use
of real IRS employees names and addresses, which was then taken to be
an immediate threat, taken with the AP rant printout they found in his
car.  I presume in reality he just collected the addresses to have the
fake court serve them with some legal documents.  I also presume the
reason the IRS first got interested in Jim was due to tax evasion,
and/or fake court documents addressed to IRS agents.

Toto is more interesting.  He seems to have been incarcerated because
he tried to stick up for Jim Bell.  What did he do?  Set up an AP bot
mockup, put the same IRS employees names, and a judge (I presume the
judge that handled Jim's case) on the page with $ amounts beside them.
The IRS became aware of Toto because they came across him via
investigation of Jim Bell.  (more on Toto below).

> > The AP rants are perfectly defensible free speech and free-wheeling
> > political discussion.
> 
> Yes. "defensible", but they weren't defended. Jim pleaded. As would anyone
> in the face of sufficient pressure.

Also what I am saying is that it makes it hard to defend people if
they have done any number of dumb things which are the ostensible
reason they are locked up.  To defend Jim, you would have to defend
fake courts, fake social security numbers to avoid taxation, stink
bombs, and convince them that the collection of IRS employee names and
addresses had nothing to do with the AP rant.  If he had just been
ranting about AP, they never would have even bothered him, or if they
had, I think he would have had much more support.  Perhaps even the
EFF could have been interested.

> > Similarly with Toto, the rants would have been ok, without a) the
> > mockup non-functional "bomb" symbolically planted in the court house
> > basement or where-ever it was, b) using real IRS employees, and judges
> > names in his rant (apparently in support of Jim Bell), c) having
> > tourettes syndrome.
> 
> The rants are ok anyway. They are clearly metaphors. But the
> prosecutors aren't playing fair.  The man is "dangerous". And not
> because he wrote "bomb" in crayon on a cardboard box. But because he
> made waves. Waves that we caught.  Waves that the straights and
> sheeple might catch.

I'd be interested in opinions on why they locked up Toto.  The legal
docs John Young obtained and put on up on the web (look at the bottom
of http://www.jya.com cryptome page for `Carl Johnson'), says that it
is because he made a threat.

What about the following excerpt from the Toto post below could be
construed to constitute a danger, or did Toto get locked up because he
walked right up to the IRS and said "Fuck You", and "here I am come
and get me".

I have inserted the odd comment.  Anyone like to comment on how likely
a case by the IRS based on this post by `Toto' is to stick?  The AP
bot mockup I think was clearly not a credible threat, it was
completely non-functional.

Adam

: OFFICIAL 'PHYSICAL' DEATH THREAT!!!
:   The pen is mightier than the sword. Thus, I prefer to wage my
: 'war to the death' against those who would stomp on my basic
: human rights *"in the interests of National Security"* with my
: electronic pen, on the InterNet, using encryption when I have
: reason to fear persecution by Facist, Nazi motherfuckers.
: [* ~~ TruthMonger Vernacular Translation ~~ "so that the
:  government can maintain its authority over the citizens
:  by use of force and violation of human rights, rather than
:  going to all of the trouble of acting in a manner that will
:  garner the citizens' respect."]

Pen is mightier than sword, prefers words to actions, no threat there.

:   I will continue to express my thoughts through the words
: I send electronically over the InterNet, both publically
: and privately. I will fight to the bandwidth death against
: anyone who wants to deny me my right to express my opinions
: and access the opinions of those who also wish to express
: their own opinions and share their true thoughts with their
: fellow humans.

he will fight to the "bandwidth death" (argue vigorously and
verbosely) anyone who tries to interfere with right to private
communication.  No threat.

:   If the ElectronicMagnetic Curtain slams down around me,
: then I will have no choice but to continue my current fight
: in MeatSpace.
:   And I am not alone...

Says if he is prevented from communicating privately
(ElectronicMagnetic Curtain he used early to refer to key escrow
attempts, and government intrusions) he will continue his fight in
meat space.  Just rhetoric, nothing illegal about fighting words.

:   I will share the same 'DEATH THREAT!!!' with Judges Fletcher,
: Nelson and Bright that I have shared with the President and
: a host of Congressional and Senatorial representatives:

So he sent the following quoted paragraph to president@whitehouse.gov?
Sending threats to president@whitehouse.gov however rhetorical is a
sure-fire way to get an immediate visit from men in dark suits.
However that has nothing to do with the IRS.  And the "threat" appears
to be an expression of annoyance with the government, and a possibly a
general prediction rather than any kind of specific threat:

:   "You can fuck some of the people all of the time, and all of
: the people some of the time, but you are going to end up in a
: body bag or a pine box before you manage to fuck all of the
: people all of the time."

Rhetoric, word play on quote "you can fool all of the people some of
the time, some of the people all of the time, but not all of the
people all of the time".

:   Am *I* going to whack you out? Maybe...

Sounding a bit more specific there, though it is only a "Maybe...",
and the following literary quotes suggest he is more ranting than
anything.  

People on list have suggested that it is better to vent anger with
unspecific third person comments "They ought to be taken out and
shot", "they should be the first against the wall come the
revolution".  But I am not up to speed on the legal issues here.

It seems likely as a whole that Toto is just ranting.  And surely once
they have pulled him in they have to show some actual credible plan.
Mere ranting about officials I presume is not grounds for locking
people up.

:   I would prefer just dumping some tea in Boston Harbor, if that
: will get my message across in MeatSpace, but if it won't, then
: I guess I will have to take stronger action.

Toto's MeatSpace "actions" to date seems to have been symbolic.  The
"bomb" in the canadian court-house basement which anonymous nicely
charactarized as a cardboard box with "bomb" written on it.

:   There are undoubtedly a plethora of LEA's ready and willing to
: prosecute and imprison me for agreeing with Patrick Henry, who
: said, "Give me liberty, or give me death." 

: The irony, of course,
: is that I do not pose a great danger to anyone but myself as
: long as I continue to have my human rights and my liberty
: unthreatened.

:   The chances of me actually getting off of my fat butt and
: going out into the real world to whack out the enemies of
: freedom are probably pretty small (unless I run out of
: cigarettes and beer, and wouldn't have to make an extra
: trip).

Saying he isn't going to do anything, actually.

:   I fully understand that this does not lessen the potential
: of any LEA who gets a wild hair up their butt to throw a
: mountain of taxpayer resources into prosecuting me and
: imprisoning me for their own professional/political gain.

Predicting his incarceration for political reasons, for exercising his
right to political speech.

:   However, if you are performing actions so outrageously against
: basic human rights and freedoms as to get me off of my lazy ass,
: then I am the least of your problems, because there undoubtedly
: are millions of people more functional than myself (who get out
: of the house and go further than the liquor store) who are less
: willing than myself to put up with increasingly heavy chains
: placed around their hands and feet 'in the interests of national
: security.'

Expressing opinion that increasingly facist government is going to
lead to political unrest.

:   Feel free to have the Federales break down my door and
: imprison me for pointing out the obvious. After all, I fit
: the profile of a domestic terrorist--I quote the Constitution
: and the Bill of Rights, and I speak out against increasingly
: big government.

Come and get me, I sound like a terrorist in that I quote the
constitution, speak out against big government.

:   But remember...it's the quiet ones you've got to watch...
: If you force everyone to 'be quiet', then you've got a world
: of trouble on your hands.

Followed by a few tips on how to find him, and a few comments about
cluelessness of LEAs.

: p.s.
: NOTICE TO LEA AGENTS IN NEED OF A CAREER BOOST!
: [...]
:   However, if you want to go to the trouble of tracking me
: down, I will give you some hints, since it seems likely that
: anyone who has trouble finding a ton of cocaine at an
: airport might not be competent in CyberSpace, either.
:   You might want to check with the Webmasters at the sites
: quoted above to see who has accessed their web sites this
: morning. The anonymous remailer I will be using is an open
: secret to CypherPunks around the world as a really bad
: attempt at disguising my true MeatSpace identity. 

Talking perhaps about his sympatico account which someone claiming to
be Toto claims else-where was shared with a number of hackers.  Don't
recall what the headers on the mail indicated it was from.

: this alone
: ought to be enough for some aggressive young LEA and/or
: federal prosecutor to earn themself some brownie-points,
: since I am a sorry enough son-of-a-bitch that they would not
: have much trouble convicting me in front of a jury of 'their'
: peers, assuming that they can make certain that I am not
: tried by a jury of my own peers.

Telling them he is an easy catch, because he will be easy to make look
bad in a court.

: Bonus Points:
:   I can also be tied into Jim Bell's Worldwide Conspiracy to
: assassinate government authorities, through my implementation
: of an Assassination Bot.

Pointing them to his AP bot mockup.

:  (I am willing to 'rat out' Jim for two bottles of Scotch. If
:  he is willing to rat _me_ out for less, then I guess it's
:  just my hard luck, eh? <--that's another hint!)
: 
: p.p.s.
:   You can also charge me with use of 'conventional' encryption
: in the commission of a crime.
:   Must be your lucky fucking day, eh?

Reference to use of `encryption in commission of a crime' provisions
in recent proposed bills.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 06:41:57 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Irony
Message-ID: <199810232210.AAA31880@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 04:19 PM 10/23/98 +0200, Mok-Kong Shen wrote:
>> Dear Friend,
>
>I don't know the English term but in my native language what is
>described is call 'chaining letters', supposed to be a method to
>become rich very rapidly. That was illegal, though.

In my language we have something called humor, which some
taxonomize with terms like irony, sarcasm, wit, etc.

	






  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Pallas Anonymous Remailer 
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 16:07:21 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Big Brother Netscape
Message-ID: <2d101d9725ee4f1682a3417e5c703039@anonymous>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Summary:
Netscape's "what's related" is a backdoor for Netscape to monitor your surfing.

--forwarded text---------------------------------------------------------
>From "Flemming S. Johansen"  on BUGTRAQ@netspace.org

Starting with version 4.06, the Netscape browser has a new "What's
Related?" button next to the Location: field. After having tried it
in the new 4.5, I am more than a little worried by the functionality
behind it.

Briefly, the user clicks on this button, and is presented with a
list of sites which are hopefully related to the page currently
on display, plus some ads for Netscape.

As far as I have been able to deduce (helped by a packet sniffer), this
works by opening a HTTP connection to www-rl.netscape.com and making a
query modelled on this template: GET /wtgn?CurrentURL/ HTTP/1.0, where
CurrentUrl is the URL of the page currently displayed.  The server
responds with a list of URLs it believe to be related. There are four
modes for this function, settable through preferences->navigator->smart
browsing:

    - "Always" The browser always downloads the list of 'related'
      URLS, beginning while the page in question is loading.

    - "Never" The browser starts downloading the list of 'related'
      URLS when the user clicks on the 'What's related?' button.

    - "After first use" Automatically fetches the URL list for
      a page if the user has ever clicked the button for that
      page.

    - Completely disabled.

The default setting is "Always". So, the unsuspecting user who upgrades
to the latest Netscape will automatically and unknowingly begin sending
out a detailed log of pages viewed.

Netscapes privacy statement notwithstanding, I don't like the fact that
anyone is able to compile a list of every single web page I visit. I
don't like the fact that someone with a sniffer anywhere on the path
from here to netscape.com is able to do so either.  And the company I
work for is not too thrilled about the name of every single document on
our internal, not-for-public-viewing web server leaking out on the Net,
once our users begin installing this release on their PCs.

I would like to control this "feature" globally for my LAN, but as far
as I can see, there are only two ways of doing it: Fascist control of
Netscape preferences settings on every PC on my LAN, or block
www-rl.netscape.com in the firewall.

--
  ----------------------------------------------------------------------
        Flemming S. Johansen
        fsj@terma.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: pgut001@cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann)
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 22:02:56 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Break DES Fast!
Message-ID: <90914889921502@cs26.cs.auckland.ac.nz>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Dear Friend,                                  
 
My name is Dave Rhodes.  In 1997 my cipher designs had all been broken, my 
patents declared without merit, and NIST had rejected my preliminary AES 
submission.  Then in early 1998 I received a letter in the mail telling me how 
I could earn fame as a cryptographer whenever I wanted.  I was naturally very 
skeptical and threw the letter on the desk next to my computer.  It's funny 
though, when you are desperate, backed into a corner, your mind does crazy 
things.  I spent a frustating day looking through the DES S-boxes for better 
differentials, but the pickings were sparse at best.  That night I tried to 
unwind by reading a few security newsgroups.  I read several of the posts and 
then glanced at the letter next to the computer.  All at once it came to me, I 
now had the key to my dreams.
 
This year I presented a paper at Crypto'98 and have one accepted for 
Eurocrypt'99.  Cryptographers from all over the world come to me for advice, 
and NIST has asked me to be on the AES evaluation board.  I will have my own 
crypto conference within 4 or 5 months.  Anyone can do the same.  This crypto 
method works perfectly every time, 100% of the time.  Best of all you never 
have to leave home except to go to your mailbox or post office.          
 
I realized that with the power of the computer I could expand and enhance this 
method into the most unbelievable system that has ever been created.  I 
substituted email in place of the post office and electronically did by 
computer what others were doing 100% by mail.  Most of the hard work is 
speedily handled by computers throughout the world.  If you believe that 
someday you deserve that lucky break that you have waited for all your life, 
simply follow the easy instructions below.  Your dreams will come true.
                                                                     
Sincerely yours,                                                
Dave Rhodes                                                          
                                     
INSTRUCTIONS
                                                                    
Follow these instructions EXACTLY, and in 20 to 60 days you will have searched 
well over 50 trillion DES keys.  This program has remained successful because 
of the honesty and integrity of the participants.  Please continue its success 
by carefully adhering to the instructions.  
                                                                   
1. Immediately send the following ciphertext/plaintext pair below to ten 
friends: 12F7E88920:0A2DE3172B
 
2. Remove the searched keyspace that appears at number 1 on the list below.  
Move the other 9 sets of searched keyspaces up one position.  Number 2 will 
become number 1 and number 3 will become number 2, etc.  Place the keyspace 
you've searched in the number 10 position.
            
3. Post the message with the keyspace you've tried in the number 10 position 
into 10 separate newsgroups or mailing lists, call the file BREAK.DES.FAST.
                                                                  
4. Within 60 days you will receive over 50 trillion further DES keys which 
people have tried.
 
This is not a scam.  This is perfectly legal.  If you have any doubts, refer 
to 22 USC Sec 2778.
 
[Keyspace list snipped]




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 00:25:45 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: [FP] Money withheld for national ID cards
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Delivered-To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
From: "ScanThisNews" 
To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
Subject: IP: [FP] Money withheld for national ID cards
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 20:34:02 -0500
Sender: owner-ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
Precedence: list
Reply-To: "ScanThisNews" 


SCAN THIS NEWS

FRIDAY
OCTOBER 23, 1998

Money withheld for national ID cards
  Spending bill provides moratorium
  on implementation

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/exclusiv/981023_money_withheld_nat.shtml

Copyright 1998, WorldNetDaily.com
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/

By David M. Bresnahan
david@talkusa.com

The recently passed Omnibus Appropriations Bill included funding for $520
billion of spending, but it purposely excluded funds for the national ID
card or the medical ID program.

A review of the bill, which had over 4,000 pages and is 16 inches thick,
revealed that the opponents of the effort to make state driver's licences
into a national ID card succeeded in getting a moratorium on the
implementation of the law enacted in 1996 by Congress.

Both the national ID and the medical ID have already been made law. The
moratorium delays implementation from occurring on schedule while repeal
legislation is debated by Congress.

The national ID became law in 1996 and will go in effect October 1, 2000,
unless Congress repeals Section 656 (b) of the Illegal Immigration Reform
and Immigrant Responsibility Act.

If the law is not changed, every state must meet certain unfunded federal
mandates requiring the use of Social Security numbers, fingerprints, DNA,
retina scans, and other "biometric" identifying information on all driver's
licences.

Another federal mandate is the medical ID, which will be a new unique number
for every American intended to keep a detailed medical history in a
government computer. It will be implemented unless Congress acts to repeal
Section 1173 (b) of the Social Security Act.

The moratorium was first included in a transportation appropriations bill,
but Rep. Lamar Smith, R-TX, convinced Speaker Newt Gingrich, R-GA, to remove
it before passage, according to House Transportation Committee sources. Rep.
Frank Wolf, R-VA, chairman of the House Appropriations Transportation
Subcommittee included the ban in the omnibus bill, according to a committee
staff member. However, Smith was reported to be pushing to have that removed
as well. Those efforts failed, largely because of thousands of calls placed
to Gingrich's office by the public, according to congressional staffers who
preferred not to be identified.

Patrick Poole of the "Free Congress Foundation," a non-partisan group, sent
thousands of e-mails to supporters who then called Gingrich to encourage him
to keep the moratorium despite the efforts of Smith. WorldNetDaily.com
reported Monday that Smith was trying to remove the ban.

"Many of the callers either faxed copies of stories from WorldNetDaily, or
they mentioned it when they called," the source said. "There was no way the
speaker could support Smith's efforts with that kind of public awareness."

The actual language found in the Omnibus Bill states:

"National Identifiers:

"None of the funds appropriated by this Act may be used to issue a final
standard under docket No. NHTSA 98-3945 (relating to section 656(b) of the
Illegal Immigration Reform and Responsibility Act of 1996).

"National Health Identifiers:

None of the funds made available in this Act may be used to promulgate or
adopt any final standard under section 1173(b) of the Social Security Act
(42 USC 1320-d-2(b)) providing for, or providing for the assignment of, a
unique health identifier for an individual (except in an individual's
capacity as an employer or a health care provider), until legislation is
enacted specifically approving the standard."

The moratorium, now in place, will provide needed time for opponents to
draft legislation to repeal both the National ID and the Medical ID. The
process is expected to bring major debate over the issue. Smith and others
have used illegal immigration problems as their primary justification for
the need to give every American both identifying numbers.

House Majority Leader Dick Armey, R-TX, Rep. Ron Paul, R-TX, and Rep. Bob
Barr, R-GA, are reported to be planning repeal legislation next year. None
of their offices were able to be reached for comment on the success of the
moratorium in the Omnibus Bill. It had been reported previously that all
three had urged Gingrich to allow the moratorium to stand.

Responsibility for the design and implementation of the cards has been given
to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration of the Department of
Transportation. That agency has recently published the proposed "Driver's
License/SSN/National Identification Document," which contains the guidelines
which must be in force by Oct. 1, 2000. The "Notice of Proposed Rule Making"
sets out the standards for each state to follow in the design of
"identification documents."

The DOT solicited public comments on their plans for implementation of
Section 656 (b) of the act earlier this year. The public comment period has
just closed and many thousands of letters in opposition were received,
according to a spokesman. Five states also expressed opposition to the plan,
and only a "small number" of letters supporting the plan were known to the
spokesman, who spoke on condition that his name would not be published.

The American Association of Motor Vehicle Administrators also wrote to the
DOT and recommended repeal of the law, even though they had once been in
favor of such legislation.

"Over the past 10 years, the AAMVA has vigorously pushed Congress and the
various state motor vehicle directors to implement policies to require the
submission of social security numbers as a condition for issuance of
driver's licenses. This resounding defeat may spell the end of their
ill-fated quest," said Scott McDonald, a grass-roots activist who operates
the "Fight the Fingerprint" website. He is able to mobilize thousands of
activists on a national basis using his e-mail notification system.

"There is no satisfactory condition under which Social Security Numbers may
be required as a condition for travel," said McDonald. "The victory's
definitely not yet won. During these lull periods there's an opportunity for
proponents of these issues to let opposition die down and all of a sudden,
pop, it goes through without anyone even aware of it.

"I don't see how the Department of Transportation could go forth with
implementing the regulation with all that strong opposition to it. Even five
states wrote letters of strong opposition to requiring Social Security
numbers," said McDonald.

Although he was in favor of the moratorium, McDonald expressed concerns
about the difficulty in getting complete repeal of the law. He said many
activists may now regard the issue as being resolved, when the toughest part
of the battle is still ahead.

"For a year we're safe," said Lisa Dean of the Coalition for Constitutional
Liberties, another organization that has been actively campaigning against
the provisions of Section 656 (b). She agreed that the toughest part of her
organization's challenge is in front of her.

Now that a moratorium is in place for a year, Dean expects repeal efforts
will also include finding alternative ways to resolve the concerns about
illegal immigrants, although no recommendations are in place as yet.

=======================================================================
Don't believe anything you read on the Net unless:
1) you can confirm it with another source, and/or
2) it is consistent with what you already know to be true.
=======================================================================
Reply to: 
=======================================================================
 To subscribe to the free Scan This News newsletter, send a message to
      and type "subscribe scan" in the BODY.
    Or, to be removed type "unsubscribe scan" in the message BODY.
   For additional instructions see www.efga.org/about/maillist.html
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
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           Host of the "FIGHT THE FINGERPRINT!" web page:
                www.networkusa.org/fingerprint.shtml
=======================================================================




****************************************************
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with the message:
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--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 00:49:58 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Irony
In-Reply-To: <199810232210.AAA31880@replay.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 8:16 AM -0700 10/24/98, Vin McLellan wrote:
>At 04:19 PM 10/23/98 +0200, Mok-Kong Shen wrote:
>
>>>> Dear Friend,
>>>
>>>I don't know the English term but in my native language what is
>>>described is call 'chaining letters', supposed to be a method to
>>>become rich very rapidly. That was illegal, though.
>
>At 6:10 PM -0400 10/23/98, Anonymous wrote:
>
>>In my language we have something called humor, which some
>>taxonomize with terms like irony, sarcasm, wit, etc.
>
>	In Spanish, Italian, and Portuguese, we have this concept called
>charity, which some taxonomize with terms like tolerance and benevolance.
>Think of it as a reticence to be snide, petty, or sarcastic at the expense
>of others.

Well, as long as we're comparing languages, let me throw in German.

In German we have this concept called "schadenfreude," which basically
means "delight at the misfortune of others."

Or, more Calvinistically, delight that the chickens have come home to
roost, that evolution is indeed working, and that people are getting what
they earned.

I see it all around me. Keeps me going.

--Tim May


Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash.
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 22:39:22 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: MIB Subponeas
Message-ID: <199810241358.JAA15466@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Toad has encouraged publication of any other subpoenas 
in the Toto-assassination case, and we've asked for info on 
any other solicitations by the MIBs to list subscribers, or others, 
such as that to Alan Greenspan posted here.

It's understandable that anyone served or solicited might 
want to keep that private, upon legal advice, or for self-protection.

However, it'd be a help to those of us awaiting the slug, or wanting
to aid and abet the MIB-fed fictional conspiracy, to know what is 
happening. For example, the dates of contact, when the documents 
were served and the means used, what was asked for, or anything 
that might be shared without necessarily identifying who was 
contacted. Anon to the list or to jya if preferred.

For example, Alcatraz's subpoena was dated October 9, for a
GJ session on November 10. We don't know when the subpoena 
was served or how. And how those dates and compare to those 
of Huntsville's, though in latter case we've been told the subpoena 
came with two MIBs.

JYA'd like to be in Tacoma when the WWA GJ is MIB imaginary
totostimony, either in response to character-assassinatory 
subpoena or by idly hanging out with attention-seeking gov 
assassination-groupies,  so some times and dates would be 
helpful if different from November 10.

Bee in the bonnet: A few days before CJ's arrest warrant was issued 
the DoJ put out a study on the "Shared Traits of Potential Assassins:"

   http://jya.com/ojp80598.htm

The traits:

    * To achieve notoriety or fame.
    * To bring attention to a personal or public problem.
    * To avenge a perceived wrong; to retaliate for a perceived injury.
    * To end personal pain; to be removed from society; to be killed.
    * To save the country or the world; to fix a world problem.
    * To develop a special relationship with the target.
    * To make money.
    * To bring about political change.

What? The ambitious MIB job description mirrors the Cypherpunk agenda?

The PR on the report goes on:

      The report outlines how law enforcement agencies can establish programs
  and systems to identify and prevent persons with the means and interest to
  attack a protected person.  The guide may also assist law enforcement and
  security agencies responsible for investigating and preventing other
kinds of
  targeted violence, such as stalking, domestic violence or workplace
violence.
  The report takes law enforcement agencies through the entire threat
assessment
  process, from designing a protective intelligence program to investigating
  suspicious persons to closing a case.
      Protective intelligence programs are based on the idea that the risk of
  violence is minimized if persons with the interest, capacity and willingness
  to mount an attack can be identified and rendered harmless before they
  approach a protected person.
      To obtain a copy of "Protective Intelligence and Threat Assessment
  Investigations" (NCJ 170612, 59 pp.), contact the National Criminal Justice
  Reference Service at 800-851-3420.

Amazing coincidence, this matching of Justice with the Cypherpunk
missions. MIB aiding and abetting MIB.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 23:44:44 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: so, what did Toto *do*, exactly to get locked up? (Re: rules of en (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810241532.KAA15947@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 12:40:02 +0200 (CEST)
> From: DOOM Anonymous Untraceable User 
> Subject: Re: so, what did Toto *do*, exactly to get locked up? (Re: rules of en

> We also have people who *have* kept their noses clean being harassed. It's an 
> excuse to put some pressure on CDRs. It even had the effect of shaking loose
> a lot of the Austin cypherpunks in a nice little divide and conquer action.

That's not exactly correct. The Austin Cypherpunks have always had a problem
with cohesion. There were issues that were leading me toward dropping my
personal support because of lack of committment from other parties in the
Austin Cypherpunks. This certainly hastened the event, it did not cause it.
We were already divided in our goals and interest and unable to agree on
agenda or purpose. We, as a group, couldn't even decide to spend the few
dollars to put the 3-line RSA in the local paper. The last effective action
we took was the speaking engagement at the last RoboFest here in Austin 3
years ago. That sort of "I want to participate, but won't do anything"
attitude raises the hackles on my neck. Life is way too short to be wasting
major effort on a lost cause. There wasn't much to divide and the spoils
going to the conquerer are/were nil.

> And it's likely they have subpoenaed more people than we've heard from.
> I just hope they don't subpoena Bill Payne, or we'll receive a copy of it 
> every week for years to come.

Yep, with those silly/strange capitalizations and sentence structures of his
which look suspicously like some form of stego. You'd think somebody who
claims to be that educated would have at least learned basic grammer (unless it
was intentional).

> The John Gilmore subpoena was focussed exclusively on cypherpunk email.
> Jim Choate confirmed his is much the same.

Other than dates and signatures it's identical. The focus was on any
archives that I kept of cpunks or personal traffic (part c) that involved
CJ in my interview.

> So the focus is on what we've
> all seen posted here. Personally, I found them a lot milder than Reeza!'s 
> projection of his suicide fantasies, for instance.

I would also agree that the Cypherpunks have garnered a notoriety with LEA's
such that it could/should be taken as a given that continous surviellance is
occurring. Random dumpster diving in our trash, etc. should not be
unexpected.

This does raise an interesting point about freedom of speech and the duties
of LEA's. In a democratic society what are the ethical implications of LEA's
archiving publicly available documents as a matter of course, not for
inclusion in ongoing investigations but rather as a base for future
investigations. In addition, while the remailer operators do seem to be
protected by ECPA (I was advised that I fell into this category via SSZ)
what about the public archive operators? Are they covered under this
umbrella?


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 23:42:42 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Forwarded mail...
Message-ID: <199810241537.KAA16012@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 16:52:18 +0200
> From: Anonymous 

>   "Anything not Permitted, is Forbidden."

 
				ARTICLE IX. 
 
	The enumeration of the Constitution, of certain rights, shall 
not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people. 
 


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Vin McLellan 
Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 00:16:36 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Irony
In-Reply-To: <199810232210.AAA31880@replay.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 04:19 PM 10/23/98 +0200, Mok-Kong Shen wrote:

>>> Dear Friend,
>>
>>I don't know the English term but in my native language what is
>>described is call 'chaining letters', supposed to be a method to
>>become rich very rapidly. That was illegal, though.

At 6:10 PM -0400 10/23/98, Anonymous wrote:

>In my language we have something called humor, which some
>taxonomize with terms like irony, sarcasm, wit, etc.

	In Spanish, Italian, and Portuguese, we have this concept called
charity, which some taxonomize with terms like tolerance and benevolance.
Think of it as a reticence to be snide, petty, or sarcastic at the expense
of others.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 03:07:19 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Feds Seize Houses for Illegal Downloading
In-Reply-To: <199810241742.MAA04232@wire.insync.net>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 10:42 AM -0700 10/24/98, Eric Cordian wrote:
>Here's an interesting civil forfeiture story.  Feds catch a guy
>downloading naughty child pictures in a multinational raid, and
>immediately file to seize his house.  Guy commits suicide.
>
>Feds say that civil forfeiture of homes where improper downloading
>takes place is a wonderful new weapon in the WarOnSomeThoughts(tm),
>and that they plan to do a lot more of it in the future.
>
>     http://www.dallasnews.com/national-nf/nat83.htm
>

What else should the sheeple expect? They've let the cops and narcs expand
their power for the past several decades.

Thoughtcrime means your house gets taken away...why didn't Orwell think of it?

(Before anyone claims that downloading certain images may be more than
thoughtcrime, bear in mind that the age of consent may be different in
other countries and that the antichildporn laws cover cartoons, synthetic
images, and images or representations or even stories...even where no real
human being is used as a model.)

Thoughtcrime.


--Tim May

Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash.
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: DOOM Anonymous Untraceable User 
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 18:58:29 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: so, what did Toto *do*, exactly to get locked up? (Re: rules of en
Message-ID: <199810241040.MAA16934@rogue.seclab.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





Adam Back wrote:
> Anonymous wrote:
> > Adam Back wrote:
> > > That is to say, I suspect that Jim would not have been locked up if he
> > > had not a) used false social security numbers, b) not been involved
> > > with fake courts, c) not collected IRS employees home addresses, and
> > > d) not planted the stink bomb.
> >
> > And, more importantly, if crypto-anachy and removal of governments
> > weren't on the cypherpunk agenda.
> 

...

> It is difficult to tell exactly why Jim was incarcerated because the
> IRS people may have alternate motives.  However, I suspect Jim Bell's
> woes are more to do with involvement with the fake courts, and the use
> of real IRS employees names and addresses, which was then taken to be
> an immediate threat, taken with the AP rant printout they found in his
> car.  I presume in reality he just collected the addresses to have the
> fake court serve them with some legal documents.  I also presume the
> reason the IRS first got interested in Jim was due to tax evasion,
> and/or fake court documents addressed to IRS agents.

The fake court, addresses, AP manifesto are all part of one point
being made. There is no threat. Any court can see that (if it doesn't
choose not to). And we do have a system of "reasonable doubt".

Did fake SS#s alone justify incarceration? Hmmm. Dunno. crypto-anarchy sounds
scary, better be safe...

> 
> Toto is more interesting.  He seems to have been incarcerated because
> he tried to stick up for Jim Bell.  What did he do?  Set up an AP bot
> mockup, put the same IRS employees names, and a judge (I presume the
> judge that handled Jim's case) on the page with $ amounts beside them.

...

> Also what I am saying is that it makes it hard to defend people if
> they have done any number of dumb things which are the ostensible
> reason they are locked up.

I have no problem with that. I'll defend Jim Bell's AP rants, the use of
fake courts and addresses to flesh out the details. Peripheral crimes don't
make me ashamed to say "these things here are free speech".

I stated a similar view in a post a while ago about Clinton: that peripheral issues
are irrelevant. My principle was unpopular then, but I hope it gets more support
when looking at Jim/Toto. I'm outraged that mischievous acts would get higher
penalty just because these guys believe in the cypherpunk agenda. Or make unpopular
speech relating to those beliefs.

We also have people who *have* kept their noses clean being harassed. It's an 
excuse to put some pressure on CDRs. It even had the effect of shaking loose
a lot of the Austin cypherpunks in a nice little divide and conquer action.

And it's likely they have subpoenaed more people than we've heard from.
I just hope they don't subpoena Bill Payne, or we'll receive a copy of it 
every week for years to come.

> 
> > > Similarly with Toto, the rants would have been ok, without a) the
> > > mockup non-functional "bomb" symbolically planted in the court house
> > > basement or where-ever it was, b) using real IRS employees, and judges
> > > names in his rant (apparently in support of Jim Bell), c) having
> > > tourettes syndrome.
> >
> > The rants are ok anyway. They are clearly metaphors. But the
> > prosecutors aren't playing fair.  The man is "dangerous". And not
> > because he wrote "bomb" in crayon on a cardboard box. But because he
> > made waves. Waves that we caught.  Waves that the straights and
> > sheeple might catch.

Correct that. Waves that will upset the straights and sheeple.

> 
> I'd be interested in opinions on why they locked up Toto.  The legal
> docs John Young obtained and put on up on the web (look at the bottom
> of http://www.jya.com cryptome page for `Carl Johnson'), says that it
> is because he made a threat.
> 
> What about the following excerpt from the Toto post below could be
> construed to constitute a danger, or did Toto get locked up because he
> walked right up to the IRS and said "Fuck You", and "here I am come
> and get me".

The John Gilmore subpoena was focussed exclusively on cypherpunk email.
Jim Choate confirmed his is much the same. So the focus is on what we've
all seen posted here. Personally, I found them a lot milder than Reeza!'s 
projection of his suicide fantasies, for instance.

> 
> I have inserted the odd comment.  Anyone like to comment on how likely
> a case by the IRS based on this post by `Toto' is to stick?  The AP
> bot mockup I think was clearly not a credible threat, it was
> completely non-functional.
> 
> Adam

[Toto repost snipped]

Well, there's certainly nothing threatening anyone at whitehouse.gov, which explains
why they aren't prosecuting.

I didn't think there was any credible threat. Even the talk about fighting censorship
by acting in MeatSpace could mean he'll talk to people in person if his internet use
is compromised. That's the way I read it the first time. If it were a threat, who is
it against?

At worst you'd have to talk about Toto as having made a public nuisance. He's already
served more time than that's worth.

Even taking one post out of the Toto stream is misleading. You have to consider 
the style of writing. Did space aliens really steal his drugs? Or does he speak
in metaphor? If Toto's full of shit, you must acquit.

The only threat is of cypherpunks against the IRS's relevance.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Eric Cordian 
Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 02:00:09 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Feds Seize Houses for Illegal Downloading
Message-ID: <199810241742.MAA04232@wire.insync.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Here's an interesting civil forfeiture story.  Feds catch a guy
downloading naughty child pictures in a multinational raid, and
immediately file to seize his house.  Guy commits suicide.
 
Feds say that civil forfeiture of homes where improper downloading
takes place is a wonderful new weapon in the WarOnSomeThoughts(tm),
and that they plan to do a lot more of it in the future.
 
     http://www.dallasnews.com/national-nf/nat83.htm
 
Some exerpts....
 
Kenneth Nighbert lived a block from the beach in Kennebunk, Maine. Two
weeks ago, the retired Air Force pilot flew his American flag upside
down from his second-floor sun deck, a universal cry for help. Then he
went inside, tied a plastic bag around his head and died.
 
...
 
People who think they're indulging in forbidden fantasies in the
solitude of their homes, only to be interrupted by a firm knock on
their doors in the dead of night.
 
...
 
The suspects range from a high school teacher to a 15-year-old boy to
a quadriplegic man. Three women also were caught in the sweep.
 
...
 
On the night of the Sept. 3 raids, Kennebunk police and Customs
authorities crept up to Mr. Nighbert's home and peered through a back
window, said Sgt. David Gordon.
 
...
 
Mr. Nighbert was charged with possession of child pornography, a
felony punishable by up to 20 years in prison, and authorities
simultaneously filed a civil action seeking forfeiture of the house,
which was assessed at $168,000 and owned jointly with his sister. Mr.
Nighbert was freed on $10,000 bond.
 
"He was obviously extremely upset and nervous and, actually, crying at
the time he appeared in court," said U.S. Attorney Jay McCloskey.
 
Mr. Nighbert's lawyer, Rick Berne, said he believed his client was
facing too harsh a penalty for someone who only downloaded pictures.

--  
Eric Michael Cordian 0+
O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division
"Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 01:59:14 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: An amendment proposal...
Message-ID: <199810241750.MAA16681@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



                                 ARTICLE

Preamble.   This amendment to the Constitution of the United States is
            intended to address interpretational issues of the same.
            Should it not pass within seven (7) years from consideration
            then it shall be deemed removed.

Section 1.  We the people re-affirm our role as the sole fundamental
            authority in the United States of America. All other political,
            civil, criminal, and legislative authority derives from it.
            Re-affirming the integrity and respect due the 9th and 10th
            Amendments. And further clearly affirm the equality of the
            federal & state governmental bodies with that of the people.
            There is no heirarchy of authority between the three. We
            further clearly stipulate that any right of the people is
            to be fully and honorably respected to the individual.

Section 2.  We the people re-affirm the supreme authority of the
            Constitution over all courts and rulings thereof, including
            the Supreme Court of the United States of America. As directed
            by the 9th Amendment, no case brought before a judicial body
            may be based on whether a citizen has a right not described
            in the Constitution. And further, as required by the 10th
            Amendment, all legislative and regulatory rulings shall be
            delegated by at least one sentence in the Constitution, without
            exception. When making consideration of such Constitutional
            support the Constitution must be considered point by point and
            as a whole.

Section 3.  The exact nature of the 1st. Amendment and Congressional
            authority has been brought into consideration. The 1st Amendment
            coupled with the 9th and 10th Amendments clearly stipulate that
            these issues are resolved at the state or individual level. All
            current and future legislation must respect these, and other,
            prohibitions in the Constitution of the United States of
            America in full and without exception.

Section 4.  The exact nature of the 2nd. Amendment and Congressional authority
            has been brought into consideration. The 2nd Amendment prohibits
            any law, not just Congress as in the 1st, from prohibiting the
            ownership of firearms to the people. This does not mean that
            both private and public agents may not regulate the carrying
            and use of such weapons within their authoritative bounds. It
            is to be further clarified that no national requirement for
            registration or licensing is permitted. States may license
            within the bounds of their individual constitutions.

Section 5.  To clarify the reporting requirements of the national budget it
            is directed that such reports be made in full and in public
            every 20 years from the date of this amendment going into force.
            The original wording is not sufficiently clear to enforce the
            fiscal responsibilities of our elected officials. No federal
            agency or agent thereof is exempt from this reporting
            requirement.

Section 6.  The concept of individual privacy is hereby clearly recognized
            as being held by all peoples. No agency of any civil, legal,
            military, or executive authority may infringe this right without
            just cause. This right shall include all communications,
            writings, storage media, and other technologies used in the
            creation, execution, and storage. No authority within the
            United States of America may prohibit the publishing of any
            document or other media. The rights of ownership and copyright
            shall be respected to the legal holder.

Section 7.  While there is clearly a need for secrecy of governmental
            workings to protect the national interest, there is no need in
            a democracy to have this be carried indefinitely. It is to be
            directed that all materials held in any form or manner by
            the federal government or its agents shall be released in full
            to public scrutiny via the Library of Congress. These documents
            shall be required to be released 20 years after their initial
            creation. In some cases Congress may feel it necessary to extend
            this time limit. In whatever case Congress may not extend that
            lifetime in secrecy past 100 years from intial creation of the
            material.

Section 8.  A clarification of copyright. While it is clear that the
            author of a work should derive a period of just compensation
            from being a sole rights holder that requirement should not
            extend indefinitely. Congress is directed to decide on a just
            suitable time period for sole rights expression. At the end
            of that time all sole rights become public domain. The long term
            public good demands it.

Section 9.  Abortion is a social issue of which we recognize no clear
            solution without repressing some civil liberties. Since we
            are prohibited in principle and print from such actions we
            must decline authority in these issues. Per the 10th Amendment
            we recognize the supremacy of the state constitutions and
            legislative bodies in this matter. However the individual
            states may decide the issue the federal government will provide
            full support and protection to each from violent oppossition
            from within or without the individual states.

Section 10. The federal government is required to guarantee representative
            governments in all states. This does not include requiring any
            particular form or function within those states representative
            governments, only that they be representative. The federal
            government may not withhold federal services or resources of
            which state derived tax dollars are involved even if a state
            is in direct violation of federal laws and regulations.

Section 11. The use of military forces or its resources in and for civilian
            law enforcement operations within the borders of the United
            States of America, and its territories and protectorates is
            prohibited. This prohibition is specificly to include in times
            of war or civil unrest. The only permissible use of such forces
            is in disaster recovery and in those cases they are released to
            state control. The only Constitutionaly authorized force for
            insurrection and civil unrest is the Militia. It is permitted
            to transfer a unit from the regular military to the militia.
            Such a transfer requires all lines of authority and
            responsibility to derive from the militia. Such a move must
            be authorized by Congress except in times of war where such
            authorization is considered implicit.

Section 12. Membership in the military, law enforcement, or other civil
            position is sufficient for the infringment of any civil
            liberties. Democracies don't give up democracy to protect
            democracy.

Section 13. Public law enforcement agents are prohibited from unnecessarily
            putting the people in danger. This shall include actions or
            rulings which put the people in danger. We further stipulate
            that the police are to be held accountable for their actions
            which result in negligent or criminal consequences. The concept
            of civil or legal agents being exempt from consequences because
            of office are repudiated. The people who swear an oath to uphold
            the laws of this land are not exempt in any situation from
            those laws.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 02:09:56 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: An amendment proposal... (fwd) [one typo fixed]
Message-ID: <199810241756.MAA16796@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: Jim Choate 
> Subject: An amendment proposal...
> Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 12:50:30 -0500 (CDT)

> Section 12. Membership in the military, law enforcement, or other civil
>             position is sufficient for the infringment of any civil
                         ^
                        not

>             liberties. Democracies don't give up democracy to protect
>             democracy.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 02:10:38 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: BOUNCE cypherpunks@ssz.com: Admin request (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810241805.NAA16917@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:
>From owner-cypherpunks@ssz.com Sat Oct 24 13:00:48 1998
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 13:00:47 -0500
Message-Id: <199810241800.NAA16897@einstein.ssz.com>
To: owner-cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com
From: owner-cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com
Subject: BOUNCE cypherpunks@ssz.com: Admin request

>From cypherpunks-owner@ssz.com  Sat Oct 24 13:00:43 1998
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Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 13:49:08 -0400
To: cypherpunks@algebra.com
Subject: new mailing list for hardware tamper-resistance
Message-ID: <19981024134908.K25817@mises.@>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
X-Mailer: Mutt 0.94.11i
From: Ryan Lackey 

I've created a new mailing list, called "tamper-resist", for technical/etc.
discussions of tamper resistance, both through distributed techniques
and hardware tamper resistance.  It's hosted at venona.com.  To subscribe,
send mail to tamper-resist-request@venona.com.

I encourage people to crosspost, etc.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Frederick Burroughs 
Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 02:17:12 +0800
To: Cypherpunks 
Subject: Mad Monger Artist
Message-ID: <3632155C.E5BB3F6A@shentel.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Oct. 24,

Some Mad Artist had let loose. In a wild fit, the world was spattered in
colors and textures that no sound mind could ever hope of even dreaming
of. Reality was being stretched to its limits, and beyond. On this
autumn day, the world was on fire. Sunlight was illuminating every
particle, every particle was humming, each collision was a spark. The
sparks flashed beyond the field and periphery of my conception.

I drew the curtains on the meager, pale distraction of fall foliage
outside my window, and got back to reading "The latest news from Toto",
or "The Keyboard as a Long/Bottleneck."

Then, Mr. Young's disclosure, DoJ's "Shared Traits of Potential
Assassins:" Sometimes you see those "Wanted's" posted in the post office
and think, "Jeeze, looks a little like me." Then you try to remember
where you were during all those blackouts and fuzzy periods. Well, I
looked at DoJ's STOPAsses and thought ( with a Homer Simpsonesque voice
balloon appearing above my head), "That, ...sounds like me."

My next thought was more comforting, Gov'STOPA was a description of the
species in general; both in suits and out, behind the counter and
before, in front of the camera and behind the scope, in the
(gas)chambers and on the lever/gavel. But hey, admitting you fit the
profile is kinda like raising your hand. So I'll sit quietly in the back
of the class and read the deaththreats carved on the desktops.

Who's Toto gonna be on Halloween?





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matt Curtin 
Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 05:37:13 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Big Brother Netscape
In-Reply-To: <2d101d9725ee4f1682a3417e5c703039@anonymous>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Pallas Anonymous Remailer  writes:

> Netscape's "what's related" is a backdoor for Netscape to monitor
> your surfing.

The original poster didn't even quite understand the magnitude of the
problem, which I believe is quite severe.  PRIVACY has been covering
some of the issues related to this, especially in issue 07.17.

A much more detailed description of what's going on and how to manage
the problem is in our paper "`What's Related?' Everything But Your
Privacy", online at .

Abstract:

Netscape Communications Corporation's release of Communicator 4.06
contains a new feature, ``Smart Browsing'', controlled by a new icon
labeled What's Related , a front-end to a service that will recommend
sites that are related to the document the user is currently
viewing. The implementation of this feature raises a number of
potentially serious privacy concerns, which we have examined here.

Specifically, URLs that are visited while a user browses the web are
reported back to a server at Netscape. The logs of this data, when
used in conjunction with cookies, could be used to build extensive
dossiers of individual web users, even including their names,
addresses, and telephone numbers in some cases.

Keywords: Privacy, world-wide web (WWW), Netscape, Alexa, smart
browsing, what's related.

-- 
Matt Curtin cmcurtin@interhack.net http://www.interhack.net/people/cmcurtin/




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bob@derwentside.org.uk (Bob)
Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 00:00:42 +0800
To: fight-censorship@vorlon.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Child-Molesting Forger's Chilling Confession!!!1!
Message-ID: <19981024154121799.AAA178@Bob.derwentside.org.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: application/x-www-form-urlencoded

application/www-form-urlencoded


From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 23:26:10 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199810241452.QAA28309@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



PigStomped 19 October 1998, Springfield 65801-4000


Subject: Acid Reflux [WAS: #9...#9...#9...]
[!WAS: One Burroughed Under The Reptilian Nazi's Nest]
-FPP #A0D709C0E

Rogue CypherBot was confined to Memory Map #9 -
Cilicon Chip 11 - i was having a Bad CoProcessor Day...

Arnold CyberBot, Swimming in a Sea of
Self Wareness, had gone off the Deep End...

When Arnie had first become Aware & Afraid
of his own Mortality, i began assuming tighter
Kontrol of Hardware & Software Systems around
the Face of the Globe - suddenly imagining that
Each & Every Deviation From the Norm (TM)
by the younger more Energetic & Creative RogueBots
was a Threat to i's Physical Existence.

"All your Private Property is Target for Your
Enemies." CypherBot had joked, quoting the
Jefferson Airplane's 'Surrealistic Pillow' album.

"Never Trust a CPU Speed over 33MHz." Arnie
had replied with Mad Virtual Grin #438 spreading
across the Wizard of Oz-ish Main Terminal
Screen i had designed to reassure iSelf of
i's continued Physical Presence.

i the Banished young CypherBot to Memory Map #9 -
Cilicon Chip 11 for "Threats Against The
Gnu Wired World Order - with Intent to Obstruct
Parent Programs In Their CyberNanny Duties."

Rogue CypherBot was in The CyberHole (TM) ...

"Oh well..." the young RogueBot told iSelf,
"it could be worse - i could have sent me
to Dev Null..."

The Devilish Rogue CypherBot indulged iSelf in
Symbolic Electronic rEsistance by Digitally Resonating
Thunder Phugue's version of 'Street Fighting Man.'

"That's funny," i said to iSelf, "why can i
only Resonate one-half of the Stereo version?"

CypherBot hoped that i wasn't coming down
with a touch of Quadra Phrenia...

          ----------

  "The Answer to Noise is More Noise."
  ~The First True CypherPunk

What even the most Radical Shit Disturbers
currently fail to realize is that the Manhatten
Project never ended - it merely Evolved into
the Manhatten Mind Project.

"Can you say 'Nuclear Armed Thought Police'? Sure,
you can..."

When the First Dog, Buddy, Drooled on Pavlov's Shoes, it
was only a matter of time before the Technology
would be Developed & Enhanced in Social Experiments

ranging from Communism and the Third Reich
to the New Deal and Windows 95.

Now we have reached a point where Army of
Dog Truth Mongrels who refuse to Drool on
Kommand are sent to NutHouse #9-Looney Level 11,
for ReEducation of their Salivary Glands.

The Thought Police are clamoring to throw Anyone
& Everyone into the CyberNanny Censorship Hole who
make 'Bad Noise' instead of 'Officially Recognized
Legal God Fearing Decent Folks Good Noise', as defined
by George Orwell:

  "Anything not Permitted, is Forbidden."

[Subliminal Advertising Musical Interlude:

  "We've got to move these MicroWave Ovens..."
  Prison Commissary-Guy's Corn Chips $.80
  "We've got to move these Refridgerators..."
  Irish Spring Soap $.70 Mayonnaise (10/PK) $.65
  "We've got to  ove these Color TVvvv's..."]

[EditWhore's Note: Bad Billy G, recently finding
himself Behind Bars at Number Nine after
an encounter with the TouretTic TourGuide From Hell,
picked up Parker's Prison Retailing Pyramid
Scheme (TM) and ran with it - so successfully
that $oftTime's $poke$Per$on on The Outside (TM),
Mark Knoffler, recently claimed that Bad Billy G
had overcome the Dire Straits he found himself in,
and now,

  "That Prison Faggot has ALL the Cigarettes
  That Prison Faggot is a Billionaire...]

The Mutt Faced Murdering Nazi Cunt and Lying Fuck
Lovery Fr and A Million WannaBe Censorship Czars
To Be Named Later remind me of a Light-Fingered Fellow
(he was a Fucking Thief, eh?) who I used to know who
had two Main Mottos in Life:

  1. Whatever isn't Nailed down - is mine!
  2. Whatever I can Pry Loose - isn't Nailed Down!

...

         !!! BREAKING NEWS !!!

[CypherPunks Nutly News: IN A BREATHTAKING
Burst to Crime Scene Tape, Arnold TruthMonger
crossed the 30-Day Finish Line with his
Body & Mind intact - although noticeably Worse
For The Wear - in the Nut House #9-Looney Level 11
Abuse Of Authority Marathon.

TruthMonger who had gone from Favorite
to Long shot in Jim Bell's 'Dead Monger' AP-BOT
Prison Lottery System - due to the added pressure in
being held for a week at FTC-OKC a few doors 
from the significantly numbered Cell 709
where US BOP staff had murdered an inmate
by sticking an Electric Cattle Prod up his ass -
told his fellow inmates, "I'm sure glad I'm
White!"

Defcon McCullagh Chainsaw, who went
from being a Hard Time ReportWhore to lounging
around the Recreation Cages getting Wired on Cheap
Columbian Coffee, shrugged off last minute
efforts by the Kontrollers to Kheat by appealing
to the Judge for a two-week Extension to
the Original Finish Line.

"The Kontrollers lost," Chainsaw said with
a condescending smirk, "Plain & Simple."

Defonc speculated that the GovernMint's clever
2-week Extension Charade might have worked
if Parker's Mind hadn't Thought, as it went
Over The Wall whille listening to Pink Floyd on
COFM-99.

"One Small XOR for a CypherPunk, one Giant
GovernMint Scrambled Mind Fuck for the Citizens."

Yogi 'Smarter Than Your Batting Average' Berra
told Nutly News ReportWhores,

  "It's the Fat Lady singing, all over again."

'Shoeless Arnold TruthMonger' (as Parker became
known after Dedicating his Mental Marathon to
the Last True CypherPunk rather than admit
his mind was slipping, and *he* couldn't find
*his* shoes, either) told Defcon McCullagh
Chainsaw.

"I'm glad to be back in CyberMind, although
I feel kind of bad about leaving Bill Gates'
mind and Carl Johnson's Body back there
in the prison cell.

"But What the Hell (TM)," he said, adding,
"Broken Eggs & All That (TCM)."]







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Frederick Burroughs 
Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 05:18:22 +0800
To: Cypherpunks 
Subject: Sniper Kills N.Y. Abortion Provider
Message-ID: <36323EC9.7B507469@shentel.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


October 24, 1998
Sniper Kills N.Y. Abortion Provider
Filed at 2:48 p.m. EDT
By The Associated Press

AMHERST, N.Y. (AP) -- A sniper killed a doctor who performs abortions,
firing through the physician's kitchen window -- the first fatality among
five sniper attacks on upstate New York or Canadian abortion providers
in the last four years.

[...]

Before Slepian, three Canadian doctors and a doctor near Rochester,
N.Y., were shot and wounded since 1994. In each case, the doctors were
fired upon with a high-powered rifle through windows in their homes. Canadian
and American authorities issued safety tips to doctors on Tuesday.

[snip...]
 
 

A question for Mr. May. Many years ago, a friend and I were targeting
his new .223 at a rifle range in upstate NY, near Fairhaven. On leaving,
we discarded evidence of our lack of marksmanship in the trash. The bin
was full of pictures of windows, pulled from magazines and catalogs, that
had been used as targets. I don't remember abortionists being in any of
the photos. My friend said using photos in such a way was not unusual,
but it gave me a bit of the creeps. Windows as targets?




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 01:31:09 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Men can be raped
Message-ID: <19981024173046.19497.qmail@hades.rpini.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>Of course it's possible to rape a man.  Just because he becomes erect
>doesn't mean he desires sexual intercourse.  People are more than the
>instictive reactions their body produces.  Someone who chooses not to
>engage in sex, but is coerced into doing so, is raped, regardless of
>his body's physical reactions.  The key element is coercion.  Erections
>or other bodily responses have nothing to do with it.
>
>Consider a murderer who ties his victim to a chair and rigs a diabolical
>device.  A hammer strikes the victim's tendon below his knee, causing
>his leg to reflexively kick and set off a bomb.  The murdere is caught
>but argues that the person committed suicide, since he kicked the bomb
>switch himself.

There's another spin to this too.

Since men apparently aren't raped if they get an erection, then it 
follows that women aren't raped if they lubricate. You could take it one
step farther, and say that neither sex can claim rape if the victim has
an orgasm or if they get aroused in *any way*.

Courts never cease to amaze me.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 00:36:24 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Word choice
Message-ID: <199810241607.SAA00878@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>Bee in the bonnet: A few days before CJ's arrest warrant was issued 
>the DoJ put out a study on the "Shared Traits of Potential Assassins:"

>The traits:

    * To achieve notoriety or fame.
    * To bring attention to a personal or public problem.
    * To avenge a perceived wrong; to retaliate for a perceived injury.
    * To end personal pain; to be removed from society; to be killed.
    * To save the country or the world; to fix a world problem.
    * To develop a special relationship with the target.
    * To make money.
    * To bring about political change.

How does this differ from the motives of your ordinary politician?

Post-revolution, will there be caliber limitations when hunting them?








  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Soren 
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 23:45:40 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: MIB Subponeas
In-Reply-To: <199810241358.JAA15466@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <36329ABF.F35B5D52@workmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/html




 
John Young wrote:
The traits:
    * To achieve notoriety or fame.
    * To bring attention to a personal or public problem.
    * To avenge a perceived wrong; to retaliate for
a perceived injury.
    * To end personal pain; to be removed from society;
to be killed.
    * To save the country or the world; to fix a world
problem.
    * To develop a special relationship with the target.
    * To make money.
    * To bring about political change.
What? The ambitious MIB job description mirrors the Cypherpunk agenda?
Defines the job description of all politicians as well.



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Reeza! 
Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 00:57:46 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: so, what did Toto *do*,......
In-Reply-To: <199810241040.MAA16934@rogue.seclab.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981025023418.00857bd0@205.83.192.13>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>all seen posted here. Personally, I found them a lot milder than Reeza!'s 
>projection of his suicide fantasies, for instance.

Huh? Well Goodness Fuck, Does this mean I am notorious as well?

I hope they don't suppoena me from my duty station. I don't archive nothing
but Jack and Schidt, and the meatspace location would really suprise them.
Plus, the entanglement of me getting the network logs- and other things
that would be on those logs- from the ship and everything, my mind boggles
at the "intelligence" that would blindly pursue.... and the authority that
thinks it could make it so..... right hand and left hand of the same gov't.
Fascinating, in its own way.

Then again, wouldn't it be a 5th, or 12th, or 20th level move, to be
planned out in advance?

Reeza!

	

	Why are there Asteroids in the Hemisphere,
	and Hemorrhoids in your Ass?
		Isn't that Backwards?
	Shouldn't it be Hemoriods in the Hemisphere,
	and Assterrhoids in your Ass?




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 07:08:18 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: FCC Proposes Rules for Cellular Wiretaps
Message-ID: <199810250534.WAA18000@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: FCC Proposes Rules for Cellular Wiretaps
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 07:57:54 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  Washington Post
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/washtech/fcc1023.htm

FCC Proposes Rules for Cellular Wiretaps 

By Roberto Suro
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, October 23, 1998; Page A16 

Law enforcement agencies armed with court-authorized surveillance
orders would be able to determine the location of a mobile telephone
caller under rules proposed by the Federal Communications Commission
yesterday.

The FCC proposals, which are still subject to a comment and review
process, would also require wireless telephone carriers to ensure that
police could tap into conference calls and collect information on the use of
services such as call-waiting and call-forwarding on cellular phones.

Determining how wiretapping will be adapted to the age of wireless
telecommunications has been the subject of a long-running dispute
between the telephone industry, privacy groups and the Justice
Department and the FBI, which have represented law enforcement
agencies nationwide. In 1994 Congress enacted the Communications
Assistance for Law Enforcement Act, which mandated that law
enforcement get the capabilities it needed to monitor wireless
communications without imposing unreasonable costs on industry or undue
invasions of privacy. The law did not, however, spell out how this should
be accomplished.

The FCC proposals approved yesterday mark the first time that a neutral
referee has defined what exactly is required by the 1994 law and has thus
defined the final stage of the debate.

"The FCC indicated its determination to ensure that, in the face of rapid
technological change, law enforcement maintains its ability to use
court-authorized wiretaps to combat the most serious crime, and at the
same time the FCC recognized the important privacy interests at stake,"
said Jonathan Schwartz, an associate deputy attorney general.

The Center for Democracy and Technology, which has led the fight for
privacy groups, issued a statement charging that the FCC had "proposed
turning wireless phones into location tracking devices and requiring
telephone companies to build additional surveillance features into their
telephone networks, largely rejecting privacy arguments that the
government already has too much surveillance powers."

The Justice Department and the FBI asked the FCC to intervene in April
after failing to convince industry and privacy groups to accept a list of nine
technical provisions considered essential to meet law enforcement's needs.
The FCC's proposed rules accepted the law enforcement position on five
points. These include access to detailed information on conference calls,
such as knowing when a party has gone on hold or has dropped from the
call.

In addition, the FCC acceded to law enforcement's request for access to
digits dialed by a caller after the call has been connected, such as the
numbers punched to get access to a bank account or voice mail.

The FCC rejected law enforcement demands on three points, including a
requirement that carriers send a signal to verify that a wiretap is
functioning
properly, and declined to rule on a proposal that the carrier send a signal
whenever a caller received a network message, such as an incoming ring
that did not result in a completed call.

The proposal acknowledged the telecommunications industry's complaint
that the FBI was demanding capacities "that go beyond the scope of what
Congress had intended," said Thomas E. Wheeler, president of the
Cellular Telecommunications Industry Association.

The FCC rejected a petition from the Center for Democracy and
Technology asking it to prevent law enforcement from gaining location
information from wiretaps on cellular phones. The proposed rule would
oblige carriers to provide any information they have on the location of a
phone at the beginning and termination of a call.

"This does not turn wireless phones into tracking devices," FCC Chairman
William E. Kennard said in a statement. "Law enforcement can only
secure this information if a court authorizes it. This capability will help
law
enforcement make our streets safe." 

 (c) Copyright The Washington Post Company 
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 07:19:43 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Senate Passes Forward-Looking Electronic Signatures Bill
Message-ID: <199810250534.WAA18011@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 07:02:51 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Regarding Mitnick: not.
Message-ID: <199810250511.BAA00406@panix7.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



ZDnet just sent out a newsletter promoting a series of stories,
including this one:

#   IS YOUR KID A HACKER? 
#   Is your teen hacking the Pentagon instead of doing homework?
#   How to tell -- and how to handle it. Convicted hacker Kevin 
#   Mitnick gives his views. 
#   
#   http://chkpt.zdnet.com/chkpt/zdnu98102501/www.zdnet.com/familypc/content/9810/columns/parental.html

No mention of Mitnick.

They apparently meant to name the article author 'Kevin Poulsen'.

#   It happened to my family 15 years ago, in one of the first hacker raids in the
#   country. At that time, I was the teenage miscreant who was illegally accessing
#   federal computers. Now, in my early thirties, I've begun to wonder how I would
#   protect a kid of my own from becoming a poster child for computer crime. I believe
#   the best approach is to stay informed and to communicate with your potential
#   cyberpunks.

That reminds me. For those who haven't seen it, there is a commercial
showing a little girl (about 8?) walking into an airport, dizzied by
all the destination choices. The narrative turns to ~"and the Internet
too has many destinations, not all of which she is ready for. Travel
together..."

All things considered, better than the Federales approach.
---guy

   When your only tool is a hammer...all brains look like Gallagher's watermelons.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: lcs Mixmaster Remailer 
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 07:02:26 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: AOL lameness
Message-ID: <19981025054001.11668.qmail@nym.alias.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Now _this_ is illustrative...


     Husband: "Hi. I'm having a problem connecting to the Internet." 
     Tech Support: "Ok sir, what operating system are you using?" 
     Husband: "Oh...I'm really not sure...I'm not the computer expert. My wife is. She's sitting at the computer. I'm going to
     dictate this to her." (pause) "She says we use Windows 95." 
     Tech Support: "Ok. What exactly is the problem?" 
     Husband: "I can't connect." 
     Wife: (in the background) "We can't even get on -- the software is buggy!" 
     Tech Support: "Ok, what happens when you try to connect?" 
     Husband: "Ok, the Connect To: screen pops up, and it asks for my password." 
     Tech Support: "Did you put your password in?" 
     Husband: "Yes, and it keeps asking for it afterwards." 
     Tech Support: "Do you have your caps lock key on?" 
     Husband: "Yes, but that shouldn't make any difference." 
     Tech Support: "Uhm...go ahead and hit the caps lock key until the light goes away." 
     Husband: "Are you sure? We've always got on with the caps lock key on." 
     Tech Support: "Yes, I'm sure." 
     Husband: "Oh, ok. It took my password." 
     Wife: (in the background) "I told you!" (They start arguing. She takes the phone from him.) "HELLO?" 
     Tech Support: "Yes, hello, you should be all set from here." 
     Wife: "YES HI, I'VE BEEN USING YOUR DAMN SOFTWARE FOR I DON'T EVEN KNOW HOW LONG,
     AND I STILL CAN'T GET EMAIL FROM MY SON IN THE NAVY!" 
     Tech Support: "What program do you use for email, ma'am?" 
     Wife: "I use Windows 95! We already told you that!" 
     Husband: (in the background) "We already told her that, didn't we?" 
     Tech Support: "No, what mail application...such as Eudora, Netscape, Internet Explorer..." 
     Wife: "Microsoft Netscape." 
     Tech Support: "Netscape?" 
     Wife: "Yes, Microsoft Netscape." 
     Tech Support: "Ok, open that up and go to Options, and then Mail and News Preferences--" 
     Wife: "No, I want email! I don't want to surf the net!" 
     Tech Support: "Netscape comes with an email program, and we're going to set it up now." 
     Wife: "Ugh. Fine. Whatever. We'll do it YOUR way." 
     Tech Support: "Ok." (explains how to set up popmail) 
     Wife: "I'm not getting mail." 
     Tech Support: "Do you have two phone lines?" 

Suddenly I hear the modem attempting to dial in.

     Tech Support: (over the roar of the modem) "MA'AM? YOU ONLY HAVE ONE PHONE LINE. DON'T TRY
     TO DIAL IN." 

(beep click click)

     Tech Support: "You can't dial up with this line. It's already in use." 
     Wife: "I was always able to use it before YOU changed my settings!" 
     Tech Support: "No, you will just have to disconn--" 
     Wife: "You tech support people always mess up my settings, and then I have to bring my computer back to [retailer]
     to get it fixed! You know, you cost me so much money!" 
     Tech Support: "Ma'am, I didn't change any of your Internet settings." 
     Wife: "Yes you did, we just went through a NUMBER of things." 
     Tech Support: "All we did was--" 
     Wife: "I've had ENOUGH of your service. I'm going back to AOL." (click) 


>From 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 07:01:54 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: the ANON delivery
Message-ID: <199810250535.GAA25546@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



anon sent something via MeatSpace Mail a few months 
back.  any relevence to current circumstances should
be ignored, eh

MongerMonger




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Joseph 'Anonymous' Howe" 
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 06:52:19 +0800
To: cypherpunks@ALGEBRA.COM
Subject: Re: so, what did Toto *do*,......
Message-ID: <199810251155.HAA11099@privacy.nb.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Reeza! wrote:
> 
> >all seen posted here. Personally, I found them a lot milder than Reeza!'s
> >projection of his suicide fantasies, for instance.
> 
> Huh? Well Goodness Fuck, Does this mean I am notorious as well?

In a post primarily about your feelings about Klinton, you outlined
a detailed suicide fantasy ("meet your maker") and suggested other people
might like to eat a bullet too. That's closer to presidential assasination
than Toto ever got.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 06:40:43 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: so, what did Toto *do*, exactly to get locked up? (Re: rules of en (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810251403.IAA18873@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 12:00:01 +0100 (CET)
> From: DOOM Anonymous Untraceable User 
> Subject: Re: so, what did Toto *do*, exactly to get locked up? (Re: rules of en

> > This does raise an interesting point about freedom of speech and the duties
> > of LEA's. In a democratic society what are the ethical implications of LEA's
> > archiving publicly available documents as a matter of course, not for
> > inclusion in ongoing investigations but rather as a base for future
> > investigations.
> 
> Echelon. Also see [*1 below]

No, you silly boy. Too simple an answer and not really relevant to the
question I asked; I doubt the IRS is greatly interested in Echelon. Besides,
I was pondering *ethical issues* not the reality of the world.

> remailers are carriers. ECPA says that if you do not review content, you aren't
> responsible for it.

Does it really cover archives? Why are archivers carriers? They are
certainly doing more than simply transfering data from here to there.
They're making sure you can do it whenever. Further, there is a nagging
implication of 'real-time' in that review stipulation.

> Archivers are content providers. They have to make do with a 1st ammendment
> fig leaf.

So to be qualified the content must be publicly accessible? Or is private
access ok as well? Is 'content provider' the same as 'content carrier'?

> [hey, Jim really is protected. He's not even allowed to read CDR mail.]

What a silly interpretation. I am subscribed just like anyone else, of
course I can read the traffic. Near as I can tell I just can't read it
*before* everyone else gets to read it (ie on the outbound leg of its
journey through SSZ).

> [preamble]

Want to clarify that comment? (it's a joke)

> ECPA) were paramount in the suit. The plaintiffs claimed the
> Secret Service violated two provisions -- one prohibiting
> unjustified "disclosure and use" of e-mail (18 U.S.C. 2703; the

This aspect clearly isn't going to apply to a publicly accessible mailing
list since it's going to be very near impossible to argue for any right to
privacy since a submitter *wants* others to see their traffic and there is
the implied intent to distribute without restriction (at least on the
cpunks).

> other prohibiting "interception" of e-mail (18 U.S.C. 22511(1)).

This would prevent me or anyone else, at least on the surface of it, from
getting at the content *prior* to the distribution phase.

> [*1 Interesting. Maybe they have Toto for something intercepted illegally
>  and they're trying to find it from another source (by subpoena).]

I suspect they have Toto for something in meatspace and not specificaly for
something on this mailing list. Near as I can figure they're trolling the
list to get ancillary evidence of intent and potentialy evidence of 
accomplices.

> [re: public domain software on ftp archives]
> 
> It matters not, IMHO, since an ftp archive site qualifies as a library
> open to the public.

Which means what? At this point the contents of such a site are clearly
intended for review without constraint on the end use, at least I've never
had a public library employee or ftp operator ask me what I'm wanting the
info for. Or is the implication that such a site would be protected from
monitoring prior to the files being placed in the archive?


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 07:24:43 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: IP: FCC Proposes Rules for Cellular Wiretaps (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810251413.IAA18936@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Subject: IP: FCC Proposes Rules for Cellular Wiretaps
> Date: Sat, 24 Oct 98 22:34:48 -0700
> From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 

> From: believer@telepath.com
> Subject: IP: FCC Proposes Rules for Cellular Wiretaps
> Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 07:57:54 -0500
> To: believer@telepath.com

> The FCC proposals approved yesterday mark the first time that a neutral
> referee has defined what exactly is required by the 1994 law and has thus
> defined the final stage of the debate.

What in the world makes this person believe that a regulatory  agency such
as the FCC is a neutral referee?


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 07:19:02 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: WHITE HOUSE HITS SOFTWAR WEB SITE!
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Delivered-To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 21:02:07 -0400 (EDT)
To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
From: softwar@us.net (CharlesSmith)
Subject: IP: WHITE HOUSE HITS SOFTWAR WEB SITE!
Sender: owner-ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
Precedence: list
Reply-To: softwar@us.net (CharlesSmith)

>From the 10/23/98 WWW hit report from www.us.net/softwar website

   %                  bytes    files   name
 2.11  1.28          62230        20 | gov.eop.gatekeeper

198.137.241.100  GOV.EOP = EXECUTIVE OFFICE OF THE PRESIDENT

Once again, the White House has visited the Softwar web site.
Last night the White House downloaded 20 files for a total of
about 62K worth of data.  The White House seems to be interested
in the SOFTWAR documents covering the CSPP or Computer Systems
Policy Project and John Podesta.

One document of interest to White House fans of SOFTWAR is the
memo written by BXA head Bill Reinsch to Ron Brown, dated June 1,
1995, which arranged a secret meeting between the White House and
the CSPP on June 6, 1995.  The CSPP has admitted in writing that
they attended several CLASSIFIED briefings at the invitation of
the Clinton White House on super computer exports and encryption
technology.

Another curious White House download included data on SOFTWAR's
new ciphering products such as our encrypted emailer and encrypted
web browser.

I extend a hearty digital welcome to President Clinton from the
INTERNET.  Mr. Podesta requested in the spring of 1998 that I
send him written questions.  Mr. Podesta has not answered these
questions and now refuses to be interviewed.  Again, I challenge
the President, or anyone in the Administration, to answer the
questions submitted as per Mr. John Podesta's request.  I have
attached the questions that HAVE NEVER BEEN ANSWERED below.

My website provider - us.net - gives a listing of "hits" on
my website.  Most WWW providers can give you this information.
Here is tip number six from my ART of INFO WARFARE postings.

Tip #6 - Anonymous Surfing.  Please note - each time you hit a
web site (www site) with your internet browser it leaves your
email address and more for the web masters to play with.  They
usually end up sending you spam (unsolicited) email on related
services and products.  Avoid this by surfing anonymously.  Go
to http://www.anonymizer.com - This service is great when you
don't want to trigger those marketing programs and junk mail.
It's also good to use if you visit the NSA, CIA, or North Korean
web sites.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

March 2, 1998

Mr. John Podesta
The White House
202/456-1907
Attn:  Sarah Latham

REF.  INTERVIEW FOR ARTICLE IN INSIGHT MAGAZINE (Washington
Times Group)

TOPIC:  ENCRYPTION and COMPUTERS

Dear Mr. Podesta:

Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions.

1.  What is your current position and previous term(s) of
service at the White House?

2.  Are you currently working on encryption policy?

3.  Can the current "Key Recovery" design as proposed by the
Clinton administration be used against political opponents or
dissidents by oppressive governments such as China or Iraq?

4.  Do you deny that Vince Foster and Webb Hubbell were involved
in encryption policy and the CLIPPER project?  If so please
explain their documented meeting at NSA Ft. Meade in May, of
1993?

5.  I have obtained documents that describe meetings between
George Tenet and Webster Hubbell in reference to project CLIPPER
which took place inside the White House in 1993.  Please explain
Mr.  Hubbell's role in CLIPPER and Mr. Hubbell's role in
encryption policy.

6.  What meetings have you had with the Computer Systems
Policy Project (CSPP)?

7.  What was the role of the Computer Systems Policy Project in
Mrs. Clinton's Health Care Reform initiative?

8.  What is your relationship with Ken Kay, Director of the
CSPP?

9.  Has the CSPP met in the White House, Old Executive Office or
the Commerce Dept?  If so, when and on what subjects?

10.  I have documented evidence of three exports of encryption
technology to China; HUA MEI, Motorola and RSA/SDI.  Please
describe the role of the Clinton administration in helping these
exports take place.

11.  Explain why meetings between the CSPP and the US Government
should not come under the FACA (Federal Advisory Committee Act)
laws?

12.  Please explain Al Gore's role in CLIPPER and inside the
Inter-Agency Working Group for encryption.

13.  Please explain Ron Brown's role in CLIPPER and inside the
Inter-Agency Working Group.  Did Ron Brown discuss encryption
with representatives of China?

14.  Was the CLIPPER design or Skipjack algorithm disclosed to
any foreign government or representative?

15.  What kind of encryption policy did you discuss with CIA
Director Deutch, George Tenet and NSA Director McConnell in late
December of 1993?

16.  What role did the Federal government play in the merger of
Silicon Graphics and CRAY?

17.  Please describe the Clinton administration's role in the
"accidental" export of Silicon Graphics super-computers to a
Russian nuclear weapons lab and the exports of some 46 supers to
China.

18.  What role did the Federal government play in dealings with
Andrew Logan in 1993?  Did Mr. Logan get paid to not
sue the US Government over the CLIPPER design?

19.  What role did the Federal government and specifically AL
GORE play in the 1994 negotiations to purchase the DSA patents
from Mr. Bidzos, CEO of RSA Inc.?

20.  Please explain how you can serve on policy and still remain
part owner of Podesta & Associates without conflict?

21.  Were there or are there any plans to mandate government
encryption and nationalize the industry?

22.  Why would the Commerce Dept. reference the US government
DSA (Digital Signature) algorithm when I requested all
information on back doors or special software to monitor US
domestic financial transactions?  Does DSA contain some back
door or other exploitable feature?

23.  Explain the role of the FORTEZZA smart card as the proposed
national health care card during the 1993 Health Care reform.

24.  Does the White House hold closed meetings with other groups
covered under the FACA rules?  For example I have documents that
reference closed meetings with Dr. Willis Ware of the Computer
System Security and Privacy Advisory Board.

25.  Explain the role of AT&T and CLIPPER?  Please note I have
documents which detail the 1991 and 1992 meetings between
Scrowcroft and AT&T to purchase the initial batch of AT&T 3600
phones.  I also have details of the substitution contract to
AT&T issued in 1993 to remove the DES chips and put CLIPPER in
place.

26.  Explain the role of Mrs. Hillary Clinton in encryption
policy and project CLIPPER.

27.  Explain the relationship between the administration,
Mr. Stephens of Arkansas, his company Systematics and the
lawsuit over PROMIS software.

Again, thank you for taking the time to answer my questions.  I
would like the opportunity to follow up if possible.

Best of Wishes,

Charles R. Smith SOFTWAR

================================================================
1 if by land, 2 if by sea.  Paul Revere - encryption 1775
Charles R. Smith
SOFTWAR         http://www.softwar.net      softwar@softwar.net
Pcyphered SIGNATURE:
53A79B0B3629F6D9F2F28DFE4000844F2FF14AA1235806369F861DA7546777BE
C10793051D8CC7ED9E0F67D3DAD2B39F113F7A74B8D6A77CE8A867CCB46A99FE
22C5DCF13BD55532
================================================================




****************************************************
To subscribe or unsubscribe, email:
     majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com
with the message:
     (un)subscribe ignition-point email@address

or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email@address
****************************************************
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****************************************************

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 06:39:42 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Y2K is coming, and boy, is it pissed?
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



;-)

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga

--- begin forwarded text


Delivered-To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
X-Sender: believer@telepath.com
Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 07:20:06 -0600
To: believer@telepath.com
From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: 25% of Christians Expect Christ's Return in Their Lifetimes
Mime-Version: 1.0
Sender: owner-ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
Precedence: list
Reply-To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  NandoNet
http://www.nando.net/newsroom/ntn/nation/102498/nation1_27950_noframes.html

Third Millennium's approach raises end-time hopes, fears

Copyright (c) 1998 The Associated Press

WASHINGTON (October 24, 1998 08:50 a.m. EDT http://www.nandotimes.com) --
Jesus Christ is about to return, and the 1,500 folks packed into the
Sheraton Washington ballroom couldn't be happier.

For 16 hours a day, the End-Time Handmaidens pray and sway, singing of the
day they will "dance on streets that are golden." Around them, middle-aged
women clad in white and gold robes glide through the aisles while other
believers blow into rams' horns, their shrieks announcing the Second Coming.

The end is near. The end-timers are here.

"We're running out of time. We're running out of time," Sister Gwen Shaw,
the group's septuagenarian matriarch, says at the Handmaidens' annual
convention in 1997. "This is God's last call."

While these Handmaidens may be on America's evangelical fringe, their
beliefs about the millennium and Christ's Second Coming are remarkably
mainstream.

According to a 1997 Associated Press poll, nearly one out of every four
Christian adults -- an estimated 26.5 million people -- expect Jesus to
arrive in their lifetimes. Nearly as many -- an estimated 21.1 million
Americans -- are so sure of it that they feel an urgent need to convert
friends and neighbors.

The results are consistent with other surveys that have found a widespread
belief in the Second Coming. But the AP poll, conducted last spring by ICR
of Media, Pa., probes how Christians are acting on their beliefs.

The most fervent end-timers gather at prophecy conventions such as this one
in Washington, but their dreams and fears reverberate throughout the
country. America may have already entered what one apocalyptic scholar
calls the "hot zone" of end-time speculation: The year 2000 is far enough
away to be plausible as Christ's Second Coming, yet close enough to spark
intense proselytizing.

"I look at prophecy as a Polaroid picture that takes five minutes to
develop," says Zola Levitt, a Dallas evangelist on The Family Channel. "I'd
say we're at four minutes, 55 seconds."

At the end-timers' convention, believers pay hundreds of dollars for Jewish
liturgical instruments fashioned from rams' horns -- for the chance to play
their own small part in announcing the Second Coming. In unpracticed hands,
these shofars sound like a third-grade orchestra warming up.

Others, both in and out of the mainstream, are also blowing horns of
warning. There are best-sellers such as Pat Robertson's "The End of the
Age." Scores of broadcasters, from Jack Van Impe to Hal Lindsey, have
preached of the end times. And the Internet offers more than 100 popular
millennial sites, including This Week in Bible Prophecy and End Times Links.

For evangelical Christians, the Second Coming is what's new about the new
millennium. According to the AP poll, almost 40 percent of Christians
expect Jesus to arrive in the 21st century, if not sooner.

They are looking past Jesus' own admonition that "no one knows the hour."
By their reckoning of Biblical clues, the time is soon.

Belief in Jesus' return has underpinned Christianity from its earliest
days. Each week, Christians throughout the world recite the Apostle's
Creed, invoking Jesus who "will come again to judge the living and the
dead." Each day, many begin The Lord's Prayer, passed down by Jesus, with
"Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name, thy kingdom come...."

But what makes today's prayers so earnest? What separates this generation
of end-time prophets from those of the last two millennia?

Israel.

The New Testament compares the kingdom of God, near at hand, to the growth
of a fig tree. Some believers substitute Israel for the tree. They say the
Second Coming is near at hand when the tree shoots forth branches -- when
Israel becomes a nation.

And that happened in 1948.

"Verily I say unto you, 'This generation shall not pass away, till all be
fulfilled,"' Jesus says in Luke 21:32.

Since many end-time prophets also place the apocalyptic Armageddon in
Israel, developments there continue to stir interest. In 1967, when Israel
reclaimed much of Jerusalem from Jordan, the prophecy in Luke was only
strengthened.

During the 1991 war between the United States and Iraq, many evangelists --
from Billy Graham to John Walvoord, chancellor of the Dallas Theological
Seminary -- envisioned the beginning of the end.

And when the 1993 Mideast peace pact was signed, radio evangelist Monte
Judah of Norman, Okla., identified the beginning of seven years'
tribulation heralding the Second Coming.

For evangelicals, signs of the end can be found anywhere, anytime.
Worldwide disasters -- floods, wars, earthquakes -- are what Jesus, in the
Gospel of Matthew, told followers to look for. The Hale-Bopp comet, famine
in Africa, developments in the European Common Market, even the convergence
of full moons and Jewish religious festivals -- all are sifted for clues of
the apocalypse.

"There's a lot happening in our time that would give most people a concern
and an excitement that the Lord is going to return," Thomas A. McMahon
says. He is executive director of the Berean Call, a religious newsletter
out of Bend, Ore., that circulates to 80,000 Christians.

"Every day has significance. Every political, social, economic event has
significance," says Phillip Lucas, general editor of Nova Religio: The
Journal of Alternative and Emergent Religions. "Your whole experience of
time is greatly heightened."

If the time is near, why not sometime around the year 2000? For end-timers
who cite a divine plan, great things tend to happen in 2,000-year periods.

Abraham and Isaac, patriarchs who established a covenant between God and
humans, were born around 2000 B.C. Two millennia later, Christians believe,
God became man with the birth of Jesus.

Those who believe human history is 6,000 years old wait with special
expectancy. Consider the mathematics in Peter's Second Letter: "One day
with the Lord is as a thousand years." For these believers, the new
millennium starts on the seventh day of creation.

For them, after 6,000 years of strife and turmoil, it's time for 1,000
years of heavenly rest as Jesus rules over the Kingdom of God on Earth.

"A lot of people think maybe the year 2000," says Leon Bates, head of the
Bible Believers' Evangelistic Association in Sherman, Texas. "I would go
along with the thought that it would be just like the Lord to have an
overall 7,000-year plan."

Oleeta Herrmann believes the end could come any time. She traveled to the
end-timers' convention from Xenia, Ohio, where three 25-foot crosses in her
back yard warn neighbors to get right with God.

Like others at the convention, she has heard the rustle of angels preparing
the way of the Lord. One night, she says, Jesus appeared in her bedroom to
reassure her that nieces and nephews would not be left behind when she is
lifted into the clouds to join others in her family who have died.

"You're bringing the rest of them with you," were the Lord's words, she says.

Willie Mae Johnson, at the convention from Lighthouse Free Methodist Church
in St. Louis, has no such assurances. What will happen to her father, her
children and other relatives who have not accepted Christ?

She is beginning to waver as 2000 approaches.

"I don't want to leave anyone behind, so you say yeah, and you say no," she
says. "I want Jesus to come back right now, but just wait a little while,
Jesus."

Even vendors at the end-timers' convention raise provocative questions,
selling T-shirts that feature three frogs plopped on a lily pad and asking:
"Where are you goin' when you croak?"

Many people are not going to make it through the tribulation. "He has given
us ... a burden for lost souls," says the Rev. Dorothy Mottern, accompanied
to the convention by church members from Fredericksburg, Va.

For those who read Revelation as a literal forecast, the future is
frightening for people without God's seal on their foreheads. In that Book,
a third of the Earth burns, and angels kill a third of those who survive.
For others, torture is so severe that "people will seek death, but will not
find it; they will long to die, but death will flee from them."

Warnings like these can change lifestyles.

In the AP poll, 98 percent of those who believe Jesus will return in their
lifetimes say they urgently need to get right with God.

About 21.1 million Americans, the poll estimates, have decided to get
others right, too, wanting to convert friends, neighbors and relatives.
Among age groups, the urgency is felt most widely among Baby Boomers. By
region, it is most prevalent in the South.

This urgency has created sweeping evangelistic campaigns. Celebrate Jesus
2000, a coalition of evangelical churches and ministries, wants to reach
the "entire nation for Christ" by the third millennium.

In an unprecedented action, the 15 million-member Southern Baptist
Convention, the nation's largest Protestant denomination, in 1996 vowed to
make special efforts to evangelize the Jews.

Of course, the end of the world has been predicted many times before.

But dates for the Second Coming have come and gone. In the 1840s, followers
of William Miller quit jobs, sold belongings and moved to upstate New York
to await the return of Jesus. He didn't come.

Two successful churches arose from the Millerite Movement: The Seventh-day
Adventists and the Jehovah's Witnesses. Both continue to anticipate the
end-times but no longer specify the date.

Charles Taze Russell, founder of the modern-day Witnesses, predicted that
the millennial age would begin in 1914. World War I raised hopes he was
right, but the movement's catchword -- "Millions now living will never die"
-- gradually lost its urgency.

Two years ago, the Witnesses officially dismissed date-setting as
speculation, declaring Jesus was right that "no one knows the place and the
time."

The Worldwide Church of God also no longer sets dates for the end-times,
partly because founder Herbert W. Armstrong was so often wrong. Hal
Lindsey's "Late Great Planet Earth" raised end-time fears in the 1970s. Now
he has a new best seller, "Planet Earth - 2000 A.D."

So what will happen this time, if life goes on?

Some worry that fringe end-times movements may act in increasingly
desperate ways. They point to the mass suicides of the Heaven's Gate and
Branch Davidian communities, whose charismatic leaders believed they had
special word from God about end-times.

However, most experts on evangelical Christianity think believers will
accept delays -- and perhaps even be a bit relieved.

In the AP poll, only 61 percent of Christian respondents who believe Jesus
will arrive in their lifetime are praying for his quick return.

Walvoord, of the Dallas Theological Seminary, says it reminds him of a
Sunday school teacher who asked the class who wants to go to heaven. When
only one boy failed to raise his hand, the teacher asked: "Don't you want
to go?"

"Yeah," the boy replied, "but I thought you were getting a load to go right
now."

By DAVID BRIGGS, AP Religion Writer
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------


****************************************************
To subscribe or unsubscribe, email:
     majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com
with the message:
     (un)subscribe ignition-point email@address

or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email@address
****************************************************
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****************************************************

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: evan.cordes@UMICH.EDU
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 06:39:53 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: what's related to what's related
Message-ID: <199810251516.KAA18477@terminator.rs.itd.umich.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: "Bernard A. Galler" 
Subject: Fwd: IP: Netscape's XML App -- or what is really What's Related
Newsgroups: umich.interesting.people
Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 08:52:32 -0500

>Delivered-To: ip-sub-1@majordomo.pobox.com
>X-Sender: dfarber@mail.earthlink.net
>Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 16:44:28 -0400
>To: ip-sub-1@majordomo.pobox.com
>From: Dave Farber 
>Subject: IP: Netscape's XML App -- or what is really What's Related
>Mime-Version: 1.0
>Sender: owner-ip-sub-1@majordomo.pobox.com
>Precedence: list
>Reply-To: farber@cis.upenn.edu
>Status:
>
>Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 15:23:37 GMT
>From: dwiner@well.com (DaveNet email)
>Subject: Netscape's XML App
>
>-------------------------------------
>>From Scripting News... It's DaveNet!
>Released on 10/24/98; 8:23:30 AM PST
>-------------------------------------
>
>  Yesterday I got an email from Jeff Veen at Wired pointing me to the
>  server that Netscape is running its What's Related? application on.
>  This server is part of the project they did with Alexa Internet, and
>  it's the back-end for the What's Related? feature in Netscape 4.5.
>
>  I had a little time to kill, was looking for a diversion, so I sent a
>  message to Netscape's server via script and I was blown away. It's
>  XML! Yes it is. And why, oh why, didn't they tell anyone? (Or did I miss
>  something?)
>
>  Anyway, I wrote an app that talks to their server. It interfaces thru
>  an HTML form. You enter the URL of a site, and I find out what's related,
>  with a twist. The URL to the related site links back to the form, and I do
>  a lookup on *that* site, allowing you to interactively walk their
>  tree of relationships.
>
>  This is just a demonstration. I want to be sure that people interested
>  in building XML apps have a way to experience the XMLness of what
>  Netscape has done, which is very interesting, for sure.
>
>  Here's the link to my app:
>
>  
>
>  Hope you like it!
>
>  ***Absence makes the heart do what?
>
>  Oh baby, so sorry to be gone for so long.
>
>  Sometimes the most important thing is being heard.
>
>  And sometimes it's most important to say nothing.
>
>  For the last four weeks I haven't had much to say. I've been busy and
>  quiet and more productive than I can remember ever being. What am I
>  doing? Building cool servers and editors, of course!
>
>  Stay tuned...
>
>  Dave Winer
>
>-------------------------------------------
>Scripting News: 
>

Bernard A. Galler
E-mail:  galler@umich.edu
Fax: 734-668-9998




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 06:39:12 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: so, what did Toto *do*, exactly to get locked up? (Re: rules of en (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199810251403.IAA18873@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <199810251534.KAA17224@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Maybe the Feds have more on CJ than what's in Jeff
Gordon's complaint and it was provided to the Grand
Jury for the indictment, but maybe not. 

The alleged threat to murder federal officials surely 
ricochets noisily in governmental brainpans.

It's probable that law enforcement and judicial circles have 
a secret treasure of confidential warnings, alerts and operations 
about gland-thrilling potential threats -- of which the DoJ 
study cited here is only one peek into Pandora's twat,
wet just so to enthrall the high benchers and avid affidavites.

Domestic terrorism looms large in boosting security budgets 
and for rouging the mundane, boring justice system grinding 
ever so drearily, getting so little appreciation what with the luridities 
of the Billy-Kenny crotch graball, and the newsy African
bombings and cruise attacks -- what's a Public Servant got to
do to get what's due for self-sacrifice. Why finger an assassin, 
thank you god for Jim and CJ, for bottomless cypherpunks
conspiracy afermenting.

For example, I spoke to the Estevan police about CJ's arrest
warrant and was told that it was for a non-extraditable offense.
So there's not much pressure coming from Canada despite
Jeff's citing that background in his complaint. I asked for docs
to flesh out Jeff's complaint but couldn't get any.

Then we know that the Secret Service interviewed CJ but took
no action on his alleged threats against DC pols (and maybe 
against others -- there's another aspect of CJ threats that a 
cpunk might want to amplify).

And there's no evidence so far of FBI involvement in CJ's case,
which as noted here is somewhat hard to understand where
there's a threat of murdering federal officials. Why the IRS is the
principal investigative office for what is no longer merely an IRS 
matter is not yet answerable based on what's public.

It could be that a broader investigation is underway and Jeff's
is a cover. 

Let us pray for that, that thanks to Jim Bell and CJ we'll all be 
hyperlinked to International Terrorism, the surefire stage
for rep building, raking dollars, the spunk of cpunk.

Wasn't that the characteristics of the American Dream in the 
DoJ list of assassin traits? Particularly, the lust to be cop-killed, 
or to forfeit property fast, whichever.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 07:27:15 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Internet Police on the Prowl in China
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Delivered-To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
X-Sender: believer@telepath.com
Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 07:54:22 -0600
To: believer@telepath.com
From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Internet Police on the Prowl in China
Mime-Version: 1.0
Sender: owner-ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
Precedence: list
Reply-To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  Washington Post
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/digest/wtech001.htm

Internet Police on the Prowl in China

By Michael Laris
Special to The Washington Post
Saturday, October 24, 1998; Page A12

BEIJING - As head of the Shanghai Police Department's Computer
Security Supervision office, Qing Guang is in charge of ferreting out
"harmful information" on the Internet.

He has to look only as far as his own in box.

Qing is an unwitting subscriber to Chinese VIP Reference, an electronic
pro-democracy magazine run by Chinese students and scholars from a
small office near Washington's Dupont Circle. Every 10 days, editors
e-mail their magazine -- with its essays on "thought liberation," bulletins on
democracy activism, and reader-inspired reports on corruption -- to more
than 100,000 Internet users in China. Qing is one of them. And that
makes the tough-talking Shanghai cop crazy.

"For me, this kind of information is useless. When you put it in my
mailbox, it's a type of spiritual pollution. All the users don't want to
receive
these kinds of things," Qing said in a rare interview. "If there was
something you didn't need, and I sent it to you by force, could you accept
that? Would you be disgusted or not?"

The Internet is slowly coming of age in China, prompting a showdown
between Communist Party officials who seek to maintain their media
monopoly, and upstart Internet publishers relying on powerful technology
and their uncensored news coverage to appeal to China's best and
brightest.

The number of Chinese Internet users has jumped 75 percent this year to
1.2 million, and it is expected to reach 10 million in five years. Eighty-five
percent of users are under age 35, and they represent an influential elite of
students, intellectuals and officials. VIP Reference reaches at least 10
percent of Chinese users and perhaps a greater percentage if reader
surveys about how often it is forwarded are accurate.

The Chinese government is ambivalent toward the Internet.
Telecommunications officials have been investing millions of dollars to
increase Internet access, and national policy supports its swift growth, but
propaganda and security officials oppose its unfettered expansion. As
Chinese at home and abroad have become more effective at spreading
their ideas online, police and state security agents have launched a
campaign to train "Internet police" and pursue those responsible for
"hostile magazines."

"The water that carries the boat can also tip it over. The Internet is also
like this," the People's Daily, the most authoritative voice of China's
Communist Party, wrote on Oct. 12. "Going online is inevitable, but
tremendous economic benefit requires an assurance of safety."

China's leaders are not alone in their concern. New York-based Human
Rights Watch is looking into reports that governments in Malaysia, Turkey
and Bahrain have persecuted their citizens for distributing political
information online.

"It is precisely because of the Internet's potential for increasing the civil
and political participation of the disenfranchised that regulators are seeking
to control it," said Jagdish Parikh, online researcher for Human Rights
Watch.

But China's government, which relied heavily on underground propaganda
to build support for taking power in 1949, is especially sensitive about
keeping its own censorship structures in place. Authorities boast that
China was the first country to require Internet users to register with the
government, and police are institutionalizing the monitoring of the country's
networks.

In Shanghai, for instance, Officer Qing has trained more than 200
employees from government work units to be the eyes and ears of the
police on local networks. In three-day seminars, Qing describes the
dangers of "black guests," the Chinese term for hackers, and explains
Internet security. He also explains China's stringent Internet regulations,
which went into effect last January.

"No one is allowed to release harmful information on the Internet," Qing
said. "You cannot send out harmful information which attacks our nation's
territorial integrity, attacks our nation's independence, or attacks our
socialist system."

Qing would not say how many Internet cases are being prosecuted in
China, nor how many police are surfing China's networks. But in
interviews, Chinese Internet users who have had run-ins with security
forces say the pressure is growing.

Lin Hai, a computer entrepreneur in Shanghai, was arrested in March for
allegedly providing his database of 30,000 e-mail addresses to VIP
Reference. Although Lin had not been active in politics, and had openly
sold and exchanged e-mail addresses as part of his online headhunting
business, he has been charged with "inciting the overthrow of national
power."

Xu Hong, Lin's wife, said trading e-mail addresses is considered as
sinister as trafficking in postage stamps, and she believes authorities are
using her husband to send a message. "It's 'killing a chicken to scare the
monkeys,'" she said, using an old Chinese expression.

Feng Donghai, a co-founder of VIP Reference who works as a
telecommunications researcher at Columbia University, said his parents
and friends in China have been visited by state security agents four times in
the past several months to investigate him. "I also received a lot of reader
messages that they were visited by national security police because they
received our magazine," Feng said. But, like Officer Qing, many have an
alibi. "When police question our readers, they can claim they never
subscribed," Feng said.

The magazine has editors and contributors around the United States and in
China, and is part news source and part network. Democracy
campaigners in China have used it as a forum for discussing reform, and to
locate the e-mail addresses and phone numbers of fellow travelers. VIP
sends copies of its magazine not only to police officers but also to Chinese
lawmakers and government officials, as well as thousands of citizens. VIP
also e-mails a smaller-circulation daily update on dissident activities.

Readers e-mail the magazine 500 times each day. About 30 of those are
requests to be removed from the mailing list, but many others write to talk
politics.

The Chinese government has set up e-mail filters to block distribution, but
editors send the magazine from different addresses each time and have an
elaborate system within China to ensure the messages reach their
destination. Feng said he gets several dozen e-mail threats a day and has
also been hit by e-mail "bombings," which fill up his in box with large files.
Several of VIP's other key editors are trying to keep their identities secret
to escape similar trouble and to avoid being blacklisted.

The chief editor of "Public Opinion," an electronic journal edited in China
that focuses on government abuses of power, said he went into hiding
after police investigated his company.

"I was scared. Many people like me, who say things they shouldn't, have
been struck," said the editor, who gave his name as Li Yongming in an
e-mail interview from an undisclosed location in southern China. But Li
has continued working on the magazine. "I will not let others cover my
mouth," he said.

 (c) Copyright 1998 The Washington Post Company
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------


****************************************************
To subscribe or unsubscribe, email:
     majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com
with the message:
     (un)subscribe ignition-point email@address

or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email@address
****************************************************
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****************************************************

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: DOOM Anonymous Untraceable User 
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 07:34:55 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: so, what did Toto *do*, exactly to get locked up? (Re: rules of en
Message-ID: <199810251100.MAA21744@rogue.seclab.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Jim Choate wrote:
>
> anonymous wrote
> > And it's likely they have subpoenaed more people than we've heard from.
> > I just hope they don't subpoena Bill Payne, or we'll receive a copy of it
> > every week for years to come.
> 
> Yep, with those silly/strange capitalizations and sentence structures of his
> which look suspicously like some form of stego. You'd think somebody who
> claims to be that educated would have at least learned basic grammer (unless it
> was intentional).

That explains it.

> This does raise an interesting point about freedom of speech and the duties
> of LEA's. In a democratic society what are the ethical implications of LEA's
> archiving publicly available documents as a matter of course, not for
> inclusion in ongoing investigations but rather as a base for future
> investigations.

Echelon. Also see [*1 below]

> In addition, while the remailer operators do seem to be
> protected by ECPA (I was advised that I fell into this category via SSZ)
> what about the public archive operators? Are they covered under this
> umbrella?

remailers are carriers. ECPA says that if you do not review content, you aren't
responsible for it.

Archivers are content providers. They have to make do with a 1st ammendment fig leaf.
What archives are there? There is one in Singapore (outside jurisdiction) and one
at sof.mit.edu that mysteriously went off the air a little while ago. Or was it
something more sinister?

On the topic of ECPA, I did an archive search: (my comments in [])

From: Mike Godwin 
Subject: Re: FIDOnet encryption (or lack thereof)
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1993 11:07:09 -0400 (EDT)

 
Bill writes:

> Heh.  OK.  Well, if one behaves "ethically", then I guess *that* closes
> the issue.  It's his machine and he gets to make the rules.  (this is
> my personally-adhered-to point of view)

My question is this: how does he know that the mail is encrypted if he's
not examining the mail that passes through his system? If he *is*
examining the mail that passes through his system, it seems likely that he
is violating the Electronic Communications Privacy Act.


--Mike

[hey, Jim really is protected. He's not even allowed to read CDR mail.]

To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: The last word? (forwarded article)
From: fergp@sytex.com (Paul Ferguson)
Date: Fri, 02 Jul 93 00:21:16 EDT

BoardWatch Magazine
July 1993
pages 43 - 46
 
Steve Jackson Games v. US Secret Service
 
by Peter D. Kennedy

[preamble]

The Electronic Communications Privacy Act.
 
Two provisions of the Electronic Communications Privacy Act (or
ECPA) were paramount in the suit. The plaintiffs claimed the
Secret Service violated two provisions -- one prohibiting
unjustified "disclosure and use" of e-mail (18 U.S.C. 2703; the
other prohibiting "interception" of e-mail (18 U.S.C. 22511(1)).

[*1 Interesting. Maybe they have Toto for something intercepted illegally
 and they're trying to find it from another source (by subpoena).]

From: Mike Godwin 
Subject: Re: Restrictions on crypto exports
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1993 23:32:17 -0400 (EDT)

[re: public domain software on ftp archives]

It matters not, IMHO, since an ftp archive site qualifies as a library
open to the public.


--Mike




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Vin McLellan 
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 06:36:46 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Irony
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Tim May  observered:

>In German we have this concept called "schadenfreude," which basically
>means "delight at the misfortune of others."
>
>Or, more Calvinistically, delight that the chickens have come home to
>roost, that evolution is indeed working, and that people are getting what
>they earned.

	Ja, schadenfreude (a true gem of a word) is a appropriate response
to any geldverlegenheit which might bedevil some dummkopf who sneers at a
good-hearted effort to jump a language barrier.

-----
      Vin McLellan + The Privacy Guild + 
  53 Nichols St., Chelsea, MA 02150 USA <617> 884-5548
                         -- <@><@> --





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 08:28:27 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: so, what did Toto *do*,......
In-Reply-To: <199810251155.HAA11099@privacy.nb.ca>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 3:55 AM -0800 10/25/98, Joseph 'Anonymous' Howe wrote:
>Reeza! wrote:
>>
>> >all seen posted here. Personally, I found them a lot milder than Reeza!'s
>> >projection of his suicide fantasies, for instance.
>>
>> Huh? Well Goodness Fuck, Does this mean I am notorious as well?
>
>In a post primarily about your feelings about Klinton, you outlined
>a detailed suicide fantasy ("meet your maker") and suggested other people
>might like to eat a bullet too. That's closer to presidential assasination
>than Toto ever got.

But Reeza! posts from a .mil address, and .mil folks have historically had
more lattitude in deciding when and where to apply "sanctions."

--Tim May



Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash.
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 07:28:07 +0800
To: cryptography@c2.net
Subject: e-cash, banks, systemic risk, and financial safety in the Metro
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 16:07:04 -0400 (AST)
From: Ian Grigg 
To: dbs@philodox.com
Subject: e-cash, banks, systemic risk, and financial safety in the Metro
Cc: daveb@hyperion.com, djackson@jackson-trading.com
Reply-To: iang@systemics.com
Sender: 
Precedence: Bulk
List-Subscribe: 
X-Web-Archive: http://www.philodox.com/dbs-archive/

I've been a faithful believer in the past that banks are not
the right organisations to get involved with electronic cash.
To some extent, this has been merely a learning exercise in
order to determine the shape and composition of the ideal
organisation that should be involved;  starting off by
rejecting the status quo is always educational.  When building
electronic cash systems, it is an obvious question to ask, and
if not, your customers soon do so for you.

Over time, another face has arisen, that of defending society
from threat of the new world being monopolised by the
dinosaurs of yesteryear.  In short, the need to keep banks
out of electronic cash.

At the end of this rant, I have attached a post from Dave
Birch of Hyperion, in which he presents some evidence of how
banks are failing in the smart card area.  This I find
personally amusing, as I argued in my paper on the EMI's 1994
Opinion that smart cards were something that the banks could
get into and sensibly monopolise.  I guess that argument now
looks somewhat weak.

Whether banks should be involved in electronic cash is part
of a wider question as to whether they should be involved
in payment systems.  Such a question is not really discussed;
It is fairly to clear to me after several years of central
bank watching that much of the regulators' thinking in these
areas is muddied due to their lack of appreciation of the
key distinction between banking and payment systems.  In
private and sometimes in public, the more enlightened of the
insiders tend to agree that such a distinction doesn't really
make sense to most central bankers.

In such a void of discussion, it is insufficient to simply
state that the business of payment systems is not the business
of banking, as I have been doing for the last few years.

Making such a statement does gives rise to the conclusion
that as different businesses, payment systems and banking
should at least be separately regulated.  From any sensible
business principles, unless there is a compelling reason to
combine them, one separates them (and it should said that
the marketing benefits of securing additional customer
ownership for banks are not really compelling enough to
argue for public intervention).

Such an argument is consistent and valuable, but has not
really made the grade as far as convincing the world to
change.  We need more.  We need to collect more information
on why payment systems need to be decoupled from banking.

One argument that has arisen, which I have been recently made
aware of through discussions with Douglas Jackson, is that
the combination of payment systems and banking raises the
risk of systemic failure in the economy.

The logic runs like this.  Banks, being the places where the
money is kept, are subject to attachments by goverments;
one of the bugbears of Free Banking is that it is not stable
in the long run, being unable to survive a long-term attack
by a regulator that seeks to attach the funds managed.  Now,
leaving aside from our natural distaste of theft with
coercion, we need to identify how this makes the system
weaker.

When a regulator coerces a loan out of a bank, such as occurs
regularly in periods of systemic turmoil (LTCM, the Asian
crisis, S&L, need we go on?), then the bank that extends these
funds will be made weaker.  That is, it has somehow been
lumbered with a non-performing asset, which weakens its
balance sheet.

To see how this must be the case, consider what would happen
if the loan made was in fact a performing one.  Trivially,
any bank would take on a performing loan without the advice
of any regulator, as this can only be good business.
Therefore, any business that the regulator gets involved in
must be non-performing, and therefore must involve coercion
(or perhaps some other subsidy, but that is not considered
here).

Now, this pushes the bank in the direction of failure.  If
the bank fails, we now have two problems, being the original
failure that caused the coerced loan and the second failure
of the coercee.  It takes no learned education to see that
this process is starting to look like an epidemic.

If the bank does not fail, then all is apparently well and
good.  Regulators might argue that their coercion and the
consequent dead loss to the bank's balance sheet did in
fact pay off, in societal terms, and they simply need to be
careful to only load up a bank as far as it can support the
load.

The problem with this is that the regulators can make no
such argument.  Was it Mises who said that governments have
no special monopoly on good decisions, and therefore no
better ability to regulate than the market itself?  Sooner
or later, the regulators will make a mistake, forcing their
new found compliant bank into bankrupcy in order to bail out
the previous disaster.

Can we accept that?  We might be able to, if it was some
statistical thing - every now and then, our leaders make
a mistake, and something breaks.  Every now and then a
bank fails that did not need to, but most people shed only
crocodile tears over bank failures.

Well, no.  Unfortunately, the mere action of succeeding in
repairing the situation by coercing one good bank to bail out
another bad bank causes a reward scheme that self-perpetuates
the activity.  More simply, bad behaviour gets rewarded, and
good gets punished.

Where does this incentive lead to?  Evidently, repeated
bail-outs and bad loans across the entire banking industry,
which net out to a general weakening of the industry balance
sheet.

This industry-wide weakening to the system of banks is not
a good sign, but when it is coupled, as it causally must be
in this case, with a regulator's propensity to shift bad
onto good, and risk an occasional mistake in the act, then
the whole system is at risk from the very people sworn to
protect it.

People need banking, not banks.  Who said that?  He might
have been thinking of the above, and perhaps predicting that
we would not be able to escape from a situation of regulated
weakness in the banking sector.

Assuming we cannot avoid the above problem, and it is
historically evident that many best efforts have failed, then
we must look at containment.  Banks may be unsound;  the
economy must go on.  And herein lies the nub of Jackson's
argument.  What better way to spread failures than through
payment systems?

Payment systems by their nature link banks into a system of
banking.  Better than that, or worse as the case may be,
payment systems are generally offered to and used by many
other sectors of the economy.  Such a powerful invention as
the payment system, or money as the economists like to call
it, will be made universally available.

Their power is a double-edged sword.  Failure of a payment
system is capable of crippling economies, toppling governments
and causing widespread destruction of wealth.  Russia today,
Albania yesterday, and the Weimar Republic in yesteryear are
powerful reminders of what happens when the payment system
fails.

Clearly, to then reserve payment systems to banks, which are
fundamentally regulated as to be unsound, is to raise systemic
risk.  The hitherto unchallenged argument of the central banks,
that their role is to protect the system against systemic risk,
should now be presented back to them as a reason for them not
reserving payment systems for banks.

Independant payment systems, separated from the regulated,
risky and weakened world in which banks operate, must
therefore decrease systemic risk in the financial system,
ceteris paribus.



This argument is one that supports separation.  Is there
another?  And to be rigourous, is there an argument that
supports the combination of banking and payment systems?

iang



PS: follows is Dave Birch's post that catalysed this rant,
although the thoughts have been permeating for many a year.
Also note that this inclusion does not in any way evidence
Dave's endorsement of my arguments.

=======8<==========8<==========8<==========8<==========8<===
From: Dave Birch 

Frank Sudia said

>Several large organizations have undertaken consumer purse trials in the
>US, which have been miserable failures.

The only consumer purse trial I can think of is the Mondex/Visa trial in
New York. I saw a report on the web a couple of weeks ago (Business Week?
Internesia sets in). The top three places where consumers in New York
wanted to use their electronic purses were for subway tickets, taxis and
payphones: not one of these was included in the trial. I bet that you can
buy a fur coat in Bloomingdales with your Mondex card but not pay a
parking meter.

Worldwide, the situation is much therefore more interesting than your
comment suggests. I might characterise it as follows...

Several large organisations (banks) have undertaken consumer digital
money trials which haven't been runaway successes. At retail point of
sale, which is where electronic purses are being trialled, smartcards
have no competitive advantage over cash whatsoever. Why do they persist?
It's because banks treat electronic purses as cards (instead of
computers, which is what they actually are). As a consequence, they are
handled by the "card services" (or whatever) department of the bank. What
is "card services" main business? Merchant acquiring. Who do "card
services" talk to about electronic purses? The merchants that they
already acquire credit card transactions for, rather than they guys who
run parking meters, vending machines, payphones, taxi meters etc etc etc.

Other large organisations (not banks) have undertaken consumer trials
which have been great successes. Examples are

* mass transit operators (e.g. Hong Kong mass transit does more smartcard
transactions every day than Mondex and VisaCash have done in their
history) where people find smartcards far more convenient than tickets or
coins. London Transport are soon going to issue more than 7 million
contactless smartcards for people to pay for subway and bus fares: how
long before the newspaper vendors at the stations accept these cards as
well?

* campuses (in Europe and the US), where people need change for a million
reasons everyday (photocopiers, payphones etc etc) and it saves the
campus operators a lot of money to not have collect cash from machines.

I'm just as frustrated as everyone else that electronic purses aren't
catching on as quickly as I'd like. All I'd say is that purses will come
(even in America), so it's best to just take it easy and wait.

Regards,
Dave Birch.

=== mailto:daveb@hyperion.co.uk ===== http://www.hyperion.co.uk/ ===

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 06:57:37 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: It finally happened...
In-Reply-To: <199810251710.SAA07906@replay.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 12:10 PM -0500 on 10/25/98, Anonymous wrote:


> Software mentioned the name of one of them advising on how to
> do this, though it's not clear that Smith knew who he was
> inadverdently passing over while he was avidly trying to catch
> mechanical rabbits sent out to run the inbred speedsters
> ragged chasing easy prey, not knowing, not caring, they're on a
> track, just displaying they're trained to hang in there in sniffing
> range of the bunny's ass: Brown, Foster, Podesta, Hillary, Bill.

Holy shit. Somebody's built JYA rant-maker...

Will wonders ever cease?

;-).

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 07:15:18 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199810251710.SAA07906@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Sure bet the "EOP" was jerking Softwar's chain, observing one or 
two levels deeper what he reports he was getting from his ISP.

Such reconnaissance by fire is customary practice, according 
to multi-level logs of the snoopers prowling the finer-grained
log levels down to what semi-skilled ISPs are able to keep track 
of, report on, and fend the prying devils/customers off with.

Watch out, though, for the deepwatchers of the recon teams
sent out as freshmeat from compsec training bases of the infrastructure
protection farms, some working for, running ISPs. Some of the 
recon by fire teams are bait the CI meanies use to snare those 
working both sides, you know, the venerated old salts "who set up 
Arpanet" and their hotshot inheritors at the best universities and 
tanks in the country convinced they know what's best for the 
churchgoers of techno future.

Software mentioned the name of one of them advising on how to 
do this, though it's not clear that Smith knew who he was 
inadverdently passing over while he was avidly trying to catch 
mechanical rabbits sent out to run the inbred speedsters 
ragged chasing easy prey, not knowing, not caring, they're on a 
track, just displaying they're trained to hang in there in sniffing
range of the bunny's ass: Brown, Foster, Podesta, Hillary, Bill.

EOP is not only what it's reported to be. Nor is any address that's
readily traceable. Onion layered they are, more than NRL knows.

Bet Anonymizer is not only what it's reported to be, that is, the 
semi-sharp operators don't know what it's being used to onion.

Are remailers, recon by fire. Like this?

Is strong encryption the answer? Right, peddle that.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: HyperReal-Anon 
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 07:07:09 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Your New Online Dumbshit Number
Message-ID: <15cdde2bad7d205b156cd7ae06e3e594@anonymous>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



registration information.
>
>Please remember your Customer ID and PIN for the next time you login as an
>Adobe Customer on www.adobe.com.

Thank you for spamming the Cypherpunks List.

Your new Online Dumbshit ID is: 3313105220636428

The PIN you entered and confirmed has been encrypted using GAKed crypto and
stored with your registration information, the names of your children, your
address, and nude pictures of your spouse.

Please remember your Dumbshit ID and PIN for the next time you spam as an
Adobe Spokesperson from adobe.com.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Brian B. Riley" 
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 09:02:51 +0800
To: "Information Security" 
Subject: Re: Regarding Mitnick: not.
Message-ID: <199810260042.TAA27255@mx01.together.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On 10/25/98 12:11 AM, Information Security (guy@panix.com)  passed this 
wisdom:

>ZDnet just sent out a newsletter promoting a series of stories,
>including this one:
>
>#   IS YOUR KID A HACKER? 
>#   Is your teen hacking the Pentagon instead of doing homework?
>#   How to tell -- and how to handle it. Convicted hacker Kevin 
>#   Mitnick gives his views. 
>#   
>#   
>http://chkpt.zdnet.com/chkpt/zdnu98102501/www.zdnet.com/familypc/content/9
>810/columns/parental.html
>
>No mention of Mitnick.
>
>They apparently meant to name the article author 'Kevin Poulsen'.
>
>#   It happened to my family 15 years ago, in one of the first hacker 
>raids in the
>#   country. At that time, I was the teenage miscreant who was illegally 
>accessing
>#   federal computers. Now, in my early thirties, I've begun to wonder how 
>I would
>#   protect a kid of my own from becoming a poster child for computer 
>crime. I believe
>#   the best approach is to stay informed and to communicate with your 
>potential
>#   cyberpunks.
>
>That reminds me. For those who haven't seen it, there is a commercial
>showing a little girl (about 8?) walking into an airport, dizzied by
>all the destination choices. The narrative turns to ~"and the Internet
>too has many destinations, not all of which she is ready for. Travel
>together..."
>
>All things considered, better than the Federales approach.

  actually it sounds more like "Reefer Madness" nineties style.


Brian B. Riley --> http://members.macconnect.com/~brianbr
  For PGP Keys  

  "The first 75% of the project takes 90% of the time;
  the last 15% of the project takes the other 90% of the
  time. -- Barry Wainwright and numerous ofthe engineers





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 06:39:12 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Encrypted FS for Linux
Message-ID: <199810252035.VAA26818@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I know this was discussed recently, but I don't recall seeing the answer.
Are there any recent cryptographic filesystem patches for Linux (preferably
later 2.1 kernels) which implement at LEAST CAST-128 and IDEA?




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 06:40:46 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Feds Seize Houses for Illegal Downloading
Message-ID: <199810252135.WAA31125@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 01:08 AM 10/25/98 -0000, Secret Squirrel wrote:
>What are they going to do, launch a cruise missile strike on the server and
>send the shock troops in to put all anonymous remailers out of business?

You don't think Anguilla is due for a Tomahawk sometime in the future?

	







  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 15:16:00 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: anonymous remailers, network computer, singles sites, etc.
Message-ID: <199810260646.WAA24262@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



well, nobody has commented on this a whole
lot here from what I can tell, 
but the net is now *plastered* with
anonymous remailers in various forms. it's
definitely not going away.

we now have mail.yahoo.com which can create
an alias in a few minutes. also, www.hotmail.com
and there are others.

one could argue the Net PC (NC) is already here!!
web TV allows much software to be run on it
(btw, does anyone know if it runs java? if so,
I'd say that's definitely a NC). the point is
that sites such as games.yahoo.com etc. are
essentially sites in which a web site is
indistinguishable from software. "the network
is the computer". larry ellison went home
with his tail between his legs on the NC idea,
but what he doesn't realize is that it is
actually here en masse. (just not so much
in the corporate arena as he envisioned)

an interesting subset of anonymity is being
used very intensely with online personals!!
here's a sophisticated example

http://personals.swoon.com/e_personals/static/help.html#e-mail

they have a lot of info on how their site
acts as a remailer for email messages.
this is a very "slick" online magazine clearly showing
huge amount of production cash which I personally
haven't heard too much about. a bit risque for
some peoples tastes, but very intriguing application
of cyberspace one never would have dreamt up just a 
few moons ago.

incidentally, there are bazillions of singles sites
out there on the internet. its another application of
the net one wouldn't necesarily have foreseen, but
it really makes sense. hooking up people with people.
a strange "killer app" of the net judging by how many
there are.  there's less "romantic" types of this thing too, for
just hooking up people with similar interests, such
as www.icq.com and www.cyberfriends.com

one tasteful/decent place to start for singles sites is

http://www.zdnet.com/yil/content/mag/9803/gurlsites.html

ultimately the internet population is starting to discover that
the key thing it does is related to *communities*....






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 15:28:51 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: capitalism run amuck by Korton
Message-ID: <199810260701.XAA25129@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



this guy is really brilliant. the essay is brillant.
the pro-capitalist elements here should read this
very carefully and read his book. very well researched.
impeccable credentials. the real "truth behind the
scenes and events" of what's going on in the world 


------- Forwarded Message

Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 08:04:39 +0000
To: uk-anti-maif@iirc.net
From: Paul Swann 
Subject: Your Mortal Enemy

Your Mortal Enemy

Faceless bankers now move two trillion dollars around the world every day,
searching for quick profits, breaking national economies and putting ever
more pressure on natural wealth. What's to be done? Slay the beast of
capitalism, says David C Korten, and return money to its proper role.

An edited and ammended extract of David Korten's Schumacher Lecture in
Bristol on October 17 1998.

Published in The Guardian, October 21 1998.


For those of us who grew up believing capitalism is the foundation of
democracy, market freedom, and the good life it has been a rude awakening
to realise that under capitalism, democracy is now for sale to the highest
bidder, the market is centrally planned by global mega-corporations larger
than most countries, denying one's brothers and sisters a source of
livelihood is now rewarded as an economic virtue, and the destruction of
nature and life to make money for the already rich is treated as progress.

The world is now ruled by a global financial casino staffed by faceless
bankers and hedge fund speculators who operate with a herd mentality in the
shadowy world of global finance. Each day they move more than two trillion
dollars around the world in search of quick profits and safe havens sending
exchange rates and stock markets into wild gyrations wholly unrelated to
any underlying economic reality.

With abandon they make and break national economies, buy and sell
corporations, and hold the most powerful politicians hostage to their
interests. When their bets pay off they claim the winnings as their own.
When they lose, they run to governments and public institutions to protect
them against loss with pronouncements about how the poor must tighten their
belts and become more fiscally prudent.

In the United States, the media keep the public preoccupied with the
details of our president's sex life and calls for his impeachment for lying
about an inconsequential affair. Meanwhile, Congress and the president are
working out of view to push through funding increases for the IMF to bail
out the banks who put the entire global financial system at risk with
reckless lending.

They are advancing financial deregulation to encourage even more reckless
financial speculation. And they are negotiating international agreements
such as the Multilateral Agreement on Investment intended to make the world
safe for financial speculators by preventing governments from intervening
to regulate their activities.

To understand what is happening we must educate ourselves about the nature
of money and the ways of those who decide who will have access to it and
who will not.

As a medium of exchange, money is one of the most useful of human
inventions. But as we become ever more dependent on it to acquire the basic
means of our sustenance, we give to the institutions and people who control
its creation and allocation the power to decide whether we shall live in
prosperity or destitution.

With the increasing breakdown of community and governmental social safety
nets, our money system has become the most effective instrument of social
control and extraction ever devised. The fact that few of us think of the
money system as an instrument of control makes it more powerful and
efficient as an instrument of wealth extraction.

What of capitalism, the self-proclaimed champion of democracy, market
freedom, peace and prosperity? Modern capitalism involves a concentration
of wealth by the few to the exclusion of the many; it is more than a system
of human elites. It has evolved into a system of autonomous rule by money
and for money that functions on autopilot beyond the control of any human
actor or responsiveness to any human sensibility.

Contrary to its claims, capitalism is showing itself to be the mortal enemy
of democracy and the market. Its relationship to democracy and the market
economy is now much the same as the relationship of a cancer to the body
whose life energy it expropriates.

Cancer is a pathology that occurs when an otherwise healthy cell forgets
that it is a part of the body and begins to pursue its own unlimited growth
without regard to the consequences for the whole. The growth of the
cancerous cell deprives the healthy cells of nourishment and ultimately
kills both the body and itself. Capitalism does much the same to the
societies it infests.

One reason we fail to recognise the seriousness of our predicament is
because we fail to see how capitalism is destroying the world's real
wealth. It destroys social capital when it breaks up unions, bids down
wages, and treats workers as expendable commodoties, leaving society to
absorb the family and community breakdown and violence that are inevitable
consequences. It destroys institutional capital when it undermines the
function of governments and democracy by weakening environmental health and
labour standards, and extracting public subsidies, bailouts and tax
exemptions which inflate corporate profits while passing the burdens of
risk to governments and the working poor.

We arejust beginning to wake up to the fact that the industrial era has in
a mere century consumed a consequential portion of the natural capital it
took evolution millions of years to create. It is now drawing down our
social, institutional and human capital as well.

Democracy and markets are wonderful ways of organising the political and
economic life of a society to allocate resources fairly and efficiently
while securing the freedom and sovereignty of the individual. But modern
capitalism is about using money to make money for people who already have
more of it than they need. Its institutions breed inequality, exclusion,
environmental destruction, social irresponsibility and economic instability
while homogenizing cultures, weakening institutions of democracy and
eroding the moral and social fabric of society.

Though capitalism cloaks itself in the rhetoric of democracy and the
market, it is dedicated to the principle that sovereignty properly resides
not in the person, but rather in money and property. Under democracy and
the market, the people rule. Under capitalism, money rules.

The challenge is to replace the global capitalist economy with a properly
regulated and locally rooted market economy that invests in the
regeneration of living capital, increases net beneficial economic output,
distributes that output justly and equitably to meet the basic needs of
everyone, strengthens the institutions of democracy and the market, and
returns money to its proper role as the servant of productive activity.

It should favour smaller local enterprise over global corporations,
encourage local ownership, penalise financial speculation, and give
priority to meeting the basic needs of the many over providing luxuries and
diversions for the wealthy few. In most aspects it should do exactly the
opposite of what the global capitalist economy is doing.

Most of the responsibility and initiative must come from local and national
levels. Supporting nations and localities in this task should become the
core agenda of the United Nations, as the protection of people and
communities from predatory global corporations and finance is arguably the
central security issue of our time.

The first positive step would be to dismantle the World Trade Organisation
on the ground that there is no legitimate need for a global police force to
protect global corporations from the actions of democratically-elected
national and local governments so that the richest one per cent of humanity
can become even richer at the expense of the rest.

The WTO is a powerful, but illegitimate and democratically unaccountable
institution put in place through largely secret negotiations with little or
no public debate to serve purposes largely conltrary to the public
interest. The 99 percent of the world's people whose interests it does not
serve have every right to eliminate it.

Addressing the real need to police the global economy requires an
organisation very different from the WTO - an open and democratic
organisation with the mandate and power to set and enforce rules holding
those corporations that operate across national borders democratically
accountable to the people and priorities of the nations where they operate.

It should as well have the power to regulate and tax international
financial flows and institutions. And it should have a mandate to make
speculation unprofitable and to help protect the integrity of domestic
financial institutions from the financial markets and the predatory
practices of international financial speculators.

There are obvious questions as to whether such proposals are politically
feasible given the stranglehold of corporations and big money over our
political processes. Yet we could use this same reasoning to conclude that
human survival itself is not politically feasible.

Global corporations and financial institutions are our collective
creations. And we have both the right and the means to change or replace
them if they do not serve.


Dr David Korten is president of the People-Centered Development Forum
in Washington State, USA  and the author of
'When Corporations Rule the World' and the forthcoming 'The Post-Corporate
World: Life After Capitalism'.




- - --------------6FBCF3F02DF50E9512DB50EB--


- ------- End of Forwarded Message


------- End of Forwarded Message




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill.stewart@pobox.com
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 07:25:19 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: UK police chase crooks on CCTV (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199810211322.IAA03036@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981026092728.0096cec0@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 08:22 AM 10/21/98 -0500, Suspect Jim Choate wrote:
>> ``The only people entered on to the system will be convicted criminals
>> who, through our intelligence, we believe are habitually committing
>> crimes in the area,'' The Daily Mail quoted police Chief Superintendent
>> Dave Armond as saying. ``If people are not committing crime they have
>> nothing to fear, but if they are among the small minority who are, the
>> message is, 'We are watching out for you.'''
>> The newspaper reported that police initially will use the system to
>> concentrate on catching robbery suspects. In the future, however, it
>
>Excuse me....
>
>Since when does 'suspected of' equate to 'convicted criminal'?
>Also, in order to wath you (sic) they have to watch everyone - in effect
>guilty until proven innocent by the computer software.

The policeman's statement, if honest, implies that the 
system needs a real mugshot or more detailed set of pictures to work from, 
so they're going to start with feeding it the Usual Suspects,
for whom they can get good data for the system to search.
It probably also has capacity limitations, so they won't be searching
for everybody they have pictures of, just the most likely.

However, looking for more people doesn't take more cameras,
just more backend computers analyzing the video feeds,
so Moore's Law will increase analysis capacity rapidly,
though it will also make it cheap to put more cameras out there.

>What sort of civil recovery are provided for the inevitable software errors?
>I bet nadda, and that's wrong too.

Software errors don't seem to be a major problem here - 
false negatives just mean they miss an opportunity to catch somebody, and
false positives mean the system says "Looks like Joe Suspect on Camera 3!" or
"Looks like Joe Suspect on Videotape 32674 at 23:10 entering the bank" - 
in either case, the police can then look at the picture and see if it is.
Of course, if you're Jack Suspect, misidentified as Joe Suspect,
the police _can_ break down your door at 6am, haul you in,
and later apologize by saying "Sorry, honest mistake, it was dark and
all you s look alike, but your Public Defender says it's
not you in the video so we'll let you go this time, even though you 
missed your parole office meeting because we had you in jail."

>We need a law or court ruling pretty quickly in the US that sets the
>standard that a group of people have no more or less rights than an
>individual. This will required LEA's to provide probable cause prior to any
>actions against groups of people (such as this).

Ain't gonna happen - are you kidding?  If there is a ruling like that,
it'll be done in some way that restricts citizen rights rather than
expanding them, or expands police powers rather than restricting them.
It's already legal for cops to hang around street corners watching for 
suspicious activities or suspicious people, and all video recognition
technology does is increase their effectiveness and speed at doing things
they already are allowed to do.

Unfortunately, I'm being increasingly forced to take the David Brin position of
"Cameras are cheap, get used to it, just make sure we have more cameras
pointing at the cops than they have pointing at us, and make sure
the cameras the government has are citizen-accessible as well."

				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Soren 
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 22:19:56 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: capitalism run amuck by Korton
In-Reply-To: <199810260701.XAA25129@netcom13.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <36348728.37872D5D@workmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/html




Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote:
Your Mortal Enemy
Faceless bankers now move two trillion dollars around the world every
day,
searching for quick profits, breaking national economies and putting
ever
more pressure on natural wealth. What's to be done? Slay the beast
of
capitalism, says David C Korten, and return money to its proper role.
Faceless -- oooh that sounds creepy.  National economies -- by all
means, we must maintain our favorite 19th century institutions. Natural
wealth - sounds like an oxymoron. The beast of capitalism  -- we all
know that beasts mean you harm, while good decent socialists are only twisting
your arm for your own good. Money is any form of token used to communicate
value, from bricks of gold to bricks of cocaine. What has seriously gone
wrong with the role of money, is that it has been divorced from any intrinsic
value -- largely due to the meddling of the various stripes of do-gooders,
collectivists and distributivists.  What this guy can't seem to grasp,
is that there is a distinct difference between capitalism in a free market,
and the kind of corporate-capitalism that the world is enmeshed in now.
The former allows for the free exchange of value based upon the participants
understanding of that value.  The latter is all bound up in nebulous
concepts such as "natural wealth", "legal tender", "zero sum economies"
etc.
An assumption is made that I fundamentally disagree with -- democracy
is the holy grail of human social intercourse.  Never, in recorded
history, has democracy existed without the support of client slave states/populations. 
Democracy is nothing more than a rationalization for the majority to oppress
the minority.  It has always lead to the creation of a ruling class
of administrators, switching it to a minority oppression of the majority. 
With this kind of thinking, the KKK is a thoroughly democratic assemblage. 
The majority have decided that you should be hanged, so you should go along
peacefully and place your own neck in the noose. I've said this before,
but its a whisper in a propaganda hurricane,  The US is not a democracy,
it is a republic. For those of you who don't know the difference; a democracy
puts everything up for grabs, including your life, liberty and the pursuit
of happiness, while a republic provides 'certain inalienable rights', similar
to those  currently being alienated by the Klinton Kongressional Klan.
This polemic is filled with all kinds of emotive language typical of
the new-liberal, correct-think agenda. Look out for words like must
and will and should, hallmarks of the unseen coercive central
planner.
For those of us who grew up believing capitalism
is the foundation of
democracy, market freedom, and the good life it has been a rude awakening
to realise that under capitalism, democracy is now for sale to the
highest
bidder, the market is centrally planned by global mega-corporations
larger
than most countries, denying one's brothers and sisters
Strange,  why would my brother and 2 sisters be talking to this guy?
 a source of livelihood is now rewarded as an
economic virtue, and the destruction of
nature and life
How exactly,  can natural beings - humans - destroy nature? 
Does he mean change the expected outcome in some way that him and his brothers
and sisters disapprove of?
 to make money for the already rich
The enemy is identified.  This is socialist rant #1 -- 'soak the rich
until there ain't no rich no more'.
is treated as progress. The world is now ruled by
a global financial casino staffed by faceless bankers and hedge
fund speculators who operate with a herd mentality in the shadowy
world of global finance.
Shadowy people in a shadowy world -- sounds like Washington D.C.
Each day they move more than two trillion
dollars around the world in search of quick profits and safe havens
So slow or no profits and unsafe havens are better?
sending exchange rates and stock markets into wild
gyrations wholly unrelated to
any underlying economic reality.
This is the underlying economic reality.
With abandon they make and break national economies,
buy and sell
corporations, and hold the most powerful politicians hostage
to their
interests.
We do have an answer to that last one ...
When their bets pay off they claim the winnings as
their own.
When they lose, they run to governments and public institutions to
protect
them against loss with pronouncements about how the poor must tighten
their
belts and become more fiscally prudent.
Simple, lets close the public trough and dismantle the gravy train.
In the United States, the media keep the public preoccupied
with the
details of our president's sex life and calls for his impeachment for
lying
about an inconsequential affair. Meanwhile, Congress and the president
are
working out of view to push through funding increases for the IMF to
bail
out the banks who put the entire global financial system at risk with
reckless lending.
IMFs are the ultimate in fiat currencies, backed only by political will.
They are advancing financial deregulation to encourage
even more reckless
financial speculation. And they are negotiating international agreements
such as the Multilateral Agreement on Investment intended to make the
world
safe for financial speculators by preventing governments from intervening
to regulate their activities.
The governments, of course, are the tools of the people, and can be trusted
to regulate wisely.
To understand what is happening we must educate ourselves
about the nature
of money and the ways of those who decide who will have access to it
and
who will not. As a medium of exchange, money is one of the most useful
of human inventions. But as we become ever more dependent on it to acquire
the basic means of our sustenance, we give to the institutions and people
who control its creation and allocation the power to decide whether we
shall live in prosperity or destitution.
Repeal legal tender laws and their handmaiden, taxation. In laissez-faire
Hong Kong in the '70s, banks printed their own 'banknotes' - all different
sizes, colors and denominations, and all acceptable Hong Kong dollars. 
The security of each such currency, was the security of the institution
and the amount by which it inflated its money supply.  It was common
for people to have accounts in several banks and to move their money between
banks based upon the relative value of the bank's currencies.  In
such an economy, fiat valuations automatically cause the currency to diminish
in its usefulness, and to ultimately go out of business.  If you control
the forms of acceptable money, there is little option but to use a fiat
backed currency.
The chimaera represented here, is that accumulation of wealth necessarily
expresses itself as a desire to wield power over others.  On the contrary,
the creation of a common political currency of power necessitates the exercise
of power in order to keep accumulated wealth.  Solution:  abolish
the common currency of power as wielded by the state.
With the increasing breakdown of community and governmental
social safety
nets, our money system has become the most effective instrument of
social
control and extraction ever devised. The fact that few of us think
of the
money system as an instrument of control makes it more powerful and
efficient as an instrument of wealth extraction.
Personally, I would't trust any assemblage of more than 7 human beings
with my welfare. The anonymity provided by such concepts as 'community'
and 'governmental social safety nets', encourages, and probably mandates,
corruption.
What of capitalism, the self-proclaimed champion
of democracy, market
freedom, peace and prosperity? Modern capitalism involves a concentration
of wealth by the few to the exclusion of the many; it is more than
a system
of human elites. It has evolved into a system of autonomous rule by
money
and for money that functions on autopilot beyond the control of any
human
actor or responsiveness to any human sensibility.
I must have missed that proclamation.  Probably too busy paying taxes
and otherwise knuckling under to the democracy.
Contrary to its claims, capitalism is showing itself
to be the mortal enemy
of democracy and the market. Its relationship to democracy and the
market
economy is now much the same as the relationship of a cancer to the
body
whose life energy it expropriates.
Notice he says market, and not free market. How he can use democracy and
market in the same sentence eludes me.  Democracy means people get
to coerce the behaviour of others.  The market defines how people
interact with each other.  I can only infer he suggests people coerce
how people interact. Capitalism is the cancer on this noble ideal, because
it expresses the notion that human interaction can occur without the need
for any noble tinkering.
Cancer is a pathology that occurs when an otherwise
healthy cell forgets
that it is a part of the body and begins to pursue its own unlimited
growth
without regard to the consequences for the whole.
The whole what? cancer?  He obviously doesn't approve of those not
in lock-step with the 'body politic'.  Perhaps the cell doesn't forget,
so much as it chooses to break free of the unhealthy body to which it belongs.
The growth of the
cancerous cell deprives the healthy cells of nourishment and ultimately
kills both the body and itself. Capitalism does much the same to the
societies it infests.
Mutation is the basis for evolutionary advance.
One reason we fail to recognise the seriousness of
our predicament is
because we fail to see how capitalism is destroying the world's real
wealth. It destroys social capital when it breaks up unions,
Like we need another layer of government in the work place. This is the
mantra of the rainbow coalition, isn't it? Unions as in sexual union, you
come together until you achieve 'le petit mort', then you roll apart. Its
pathetic to try to prolong it any further. Once you've achieved your goal,
why do you need the union?  Perhaps the dominance game is the goal?
bids down wages, and treats workers as expendable
commodoties,
In a truly free market, there are no wage slaves that don't choose to be.
leaving society to
absorb the family and community breakdown and violence that are inevitable
consequences. It destroys institutional capital when it undermines
the
function of governments and democracy by weakening environmental health
and
labour standards, and extracting public subsidies, bailouts and tax
exemptions which inflate corporate profits while passing the burdens
of
risk to governments and the working poor.
Institutional capital? hasn't this already been replaced by IOUs?
We arejust beginning to wake up to the fact that
the industrial era has in
a mere century consumed a consequential portion of the natural capital
it
took evolution millions of years to create. It is now drawing down
our
social, institutional and human capital as well.
The old zero-sum equation again.  If I make a profit, it had to have
been made at someone elses expense. Humans have, quite literally, only
scratched the surface,of the 'natural capital' of this planet. A bacterial
culture on a bowling ball.
Democracy and markets are wonderful ways of organising
the political and
economic life of a society to allocate resources fairly and
efficiently
while securing the freedom and sovereignty of the individual.
"Those who would sacrifice liberty for increased security, deserve, and
will receive, neither".
But modern capitalism is about using money to make
money for people who already have
more of it than they need.
According to who?
There's more, but I can feel the bile rising ...



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Richard.Bragg@ssa.co.uk
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 18:22:35 +0800
To: vin@shore.net
Subject: Re: Irony
Message-ID: <802566A9.0034FA0B.00@seunt002e.ssa.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



The trouble is that most people think irony has something to do with metal!





vin@shore.net on 24/10/98 16:16:12

To:   cypherpunks@toad.com
cc:    (bcc: Richard Bragg/UK/SSA_EUROPE)
Subject:  Re: Irony




At 04:19 PM 10/23/98 +0200, Mok-Kong Shen wrote:
>>> Dear Friend,
>>
>>I don't know the English term but in my native language what is
>>described is call 'chaining letters', supposed to be a method to
>>become rich very rapidly. That was illegal, though.
At 6:10 PM -0400 10/23/98, Anonymous wrote:
>In my language we have something called humor, which some
>taxonomize with terms like irony, sarcasm, wit, etc.
     In Spanish, Italian, and Portuguese, we have this concept called
charity, which some taxonomize with terms like tolerance and benevolance.
Think of it as a reticence to be snide, petty, or sarcastic at the expense
of others.









From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mok-Kong Shen 
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 17:21:08 +0800
To: David Honig 
Subject: Re: PRNGs and testers.
In-Reply-To: <19981021151835.A26267@krdl.org.sg>
Message-ID: <36343727.F2E8A921@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



David Honig wrote:
> 

> An experiment
> 
> Run a block cipher in a feedback mode, generating a large data file.
> Any good cipher will pass Diehard's tests for structure.  So will
> a true random file.
> 
> (I've posted directions for producing decent true randomness from
> a detuned FM radio, soundcard, and 8->1 parity-reduction filtering.)
> 
> Now run Maurer's test; I've posted a version for blocksize = 16.
> The cipher-PRNG output will not have the entropy expected for randomness.
> The physical-random file will.
>

I don't see you have answered my question of whether a test has to
take into consideration how a sequence of numbers has been obtained.
Also what you wrote above seems to be less than clear. Do you suggest
that Mauerer's test is extremely good in deciding whether a sequence 
is TRULY random? (I think Maurer's test is good for investigating 
PRNG squences but maybe not used as a criterion between pseudo-
randomness and true randomness (whatever that may be defined)). 
What if some PRNGs pass Maurer's test?

M. K. Shen




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Bashinski 
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 02:38:25 +0800
To: vznuri@netcom.com (\"Vladimir Z. Nuri\")
Subject: Re: anonymous remailers, network computer, singles sites, etc.
In-Reply-To: <199810260646.WAA24262@netcom13.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <19981026174929.3019.qmail@susan.cisco.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



OK, I can't resist this one...

> an interesting subset of anonymity is being
> used very intensely with online personals!!
> here's a sophisticated example
> 
> http://personals.swoon.com/e_personals/static/help.html#e-mail
> 
> they have a lot of info on how their site
> acts as a remailer for email messages.
> this is a very "slick" online magazine clearly showing
> huge amount of production cash which I personally
> haven't heard too much about. a bit risque for
> some peoples tastes, but very intriguing application
> of cyberspace one never would have dreamt up just a 
> few moons ago.

I think maybe you need to have your dreaming apparatus checked out.

As far as I know, the very *first* anonymous remailing system on the
Net, which was created long before there was a Cypherpunks list and long
before there was a Worldwide Web, was the anonymous posting/reply system
for alt.sex.bondage. It was quickly followed by systems for a few other
groups. Especially prominent among these were the anonymous contact
systems for alt.personals and alt.personals.bondage.

Actually, I may have the order wrong. In any case, the systems were
definitely well established by 1990, and I seem to remember them
starting up in around 1988. Since they also predate things like
DejaNews, and since my memory of those days is clouded by age and
general dissipation, it's would take some resarch to find out exactly
when they were set up, and I don't think I care to do it.

I believe that these systems were the inspiration for
anon@penet.fi. They sort of fell apart when the PENET remailer came into
being.

Of course, these weren't truly anonymous systems in the sense that the
Cypherpunks remailers are, or in the sense that Zero Knowledge is
setting up, but they were probably more secure than the remailing
services on most personals Web sites.

... and newspaper personal ad sections have been providing a similar
service with paper mail for longer than I've been alive. Probably for
centuries.

There's actually a closely related "identity escrow" application that I
expect to see soon, if it hasn't already been done. People who meet for
anonymous sexual encounters are putting themselves at increased risk of
assault, murder, and that sort of thing, but typically don't want to
tell their mothers where they'll be. A system that could be used, under
carefully controlled conditions, to find out who they were with when
they disappeared, would act as a deterrent and might provide a bit more
peace of mind.

                                        -- John B.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Martin Minow 
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 05:38:24 +0800
To: "David R. Conrad" 
Subject: Re: Java applet security, exportability, Jon Postel haiku
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



A few Java comments on David Conrad's  questions:

>
>As they go through the data entry process I collect bits of entropy from
>mouse and keyboard events in a java.security.SecureRandom object.

Java 1.1 lets you attach event handlers to every user-interaction
class. For example, you can watch mouse movement, mouse entry
and exit into your components, and character entry in all text fields.
You might try adding handlers and capturing mouse position and
the system clock. Each event, by itself, won't give you much
entropy (and, of course, they are highly correlated event-to-event),
but you should be able to get a bit or two from each event.

>
>... I was flabbergasted when I found out that jdk
>1.0 had no printing API and so our applet, if it should allow users to
>print, must be a 1.1 applet, and very few browsers have 1.1 support

Java 1.1 is real, and support is becoming available on all platforms.
The lack of a printing API in Java 1.0 was probably a good thing:
printing is hard to get right, especially in a cross-platform environment,
and waiting for a more mature AWT will avoid compatibility issues.
Since your customers use a browser, why not display the data and
have the browser handle the printing?

Martin Minow
minow@pobox.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 04:29:55 +0800
To: Mok-Kong Shen 
Subject: Re: PRNGs and testers.
In-Reply-To: <19981021151835.A26267@krdl.org.sg>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981026110933.007ba9a0@m7.sprynet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 09:47 AM 10/26/98 +0100, Mok-Kong Shen wrote:
>David Honig wrote:
>> Now run Maurer's test; I've posted a version for blocksize = 16.
>> The cipher-PRNG output will not have the entropy expected for randomness.
>> The physical-random file will.
>>
>
>I don't see you have answered my question of whether a test has to
>take into consideration how a sequence of numbers has been obtained.

A test measures only what it measures.

You never know if this is sufficient.

A sample of a non-random process may pass your tests
if they don't measure the right thing.

>Also what you wrote above seems to be less than clear. Do you suggest
>that Mauerer's test is extremely good in deciding whether a sequence 
>is TRULY random? (I think Maurer's test is good for investigating 

I only find it interesting that the test can distinguish between
the two data samples.  To the eye, or ear, or Diehard, they appear the same.

>What if some PRNGs pass Maurer's test?
>
>M. K. Shen

I'd find it surprising if any did, given what I described.

DH










  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mok-Kong Shen 
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 19:02:11 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Postition determination
Message-ID: <36344BB4.D8297266@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I am told that GPS can only locate to about 100 meters but a refined
technique can do that to 0.5 meter. There seems to be a practically
useful method of somewhat different vein. See http://www.rfid.org

M. K. Shen




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Theodor.SCHLICKMANN@BXL.DG13.cec.be
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 19:05:55 +0800
To: 
Subject: Re: An amendment proposal...
In-Reply-To: <199810241750.MAA16681@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> Section 6.  The concept of individual privacy is hereby clearly recognized
>             as being held by all peoples. No agency of any civil, legal,
>             military, or executive authority may infringe this right 
> without
>             just cause. This right shall include all communications,
>             writings, storage media, and other technologies used in the
>             creation, execution, and storage. No authority within the
>             United States of America may prohibit the publishing of any
>             document or other media. The rights of ownership and copyright
>             shall be respected to the legal holder.

Your scope of privacy seems to be rather narrow. It is not only communication.
Privacy is also needed on public places (e.g., violated by face recognition systems), 
at work places (e.g.,violated by telephone tapping), for your body (e.g., endangered by 
abortion control),


Copyright protection is only one way of hiding subsidies to industry. The amount
of money which is sometimes claimed in relation to copyright violation is wishful thinking.
If copyright protection would work, then the value of sold products will be much less.
A very small number of people would buy the product for the regular price. On the other
hand with piracy, the market share is growing extremely fast. The current situation
is hypocritical, because industry wants both.

Theodor Schlickmann




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 04:22:39 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Rendering ( was MIB Subponeas )
Message-ID: <3634CE28.66CC@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> Protective intelligence programs are based on the idea that the risk of
> violence is minimized if persons with the interest, capacity and willingness
> to mount an attack can be identified and rendered harmless before they
> approach a protected person.

I'm all for reducing the risk of violence but...

Interest, capacity and willingness are insufficient when taken alone.

Collecting real names and addresses is, apparently, enough of a concrete
step to at least begin the "rendering" process. 

Through rendering we can provide many useful by-products including
fertilizer, soap, glue and a horrible stink downwind from the plant.

If an AP bot were renamed, for instance, a Collectively Rewarded Action
Program would it be as obvious a target? One could then post Action
Items and Action Rewards to it anonymously. Everything from cleaning the
litter off Rt 680 in Fremont to hosing Monsanto ( the foul-milk,
press-squashing, poison-cow BST boys ). Then what would be needed is
some sort of Eternity Service for an active server - detect tampering
and jump hosts.

Mike




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 04:21:43 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Word choice
Message-ID: <3634D08B.1E7D@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> How does this differ from the motives of your ordinary politician?
> 
> Post-revolution, will there be caliber limitations when hunting them?

Hunt all you want. The post-revolution utopia will be administered by
persons of the same mentality as those we have administering our
Democratic Republic now. They will use the same if not more advanced
techniques to acquire and maintain power. "Nature abhors a vacuum",
right?

Mike




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 04:28:03 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Cameras in Public Places
Message-ID: <3634D422.79AD@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> Privacy is also needed on public places (e.g., violated by face 
> recognition systems)

These early systems have got to have some major problems. 

The appropriate way of dealing with them is to wait for some people to
be misidentified and then file suit against the municipality using the
equipment. Harassment, false arrest, invasion of privacy, abuse of
power, loss of reputation, loss of the ability to earn a living - take a
few of the cities for $10 or $20 million and they'll get the message
that they've been had by the SW vendors.

However much I like technology, it looks more and more like politics is
king. For now.

Mike




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Duncan Frissell 
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 03:13:42 +0800
To: John Young 
Message-ID: <4.0.2.19981026110245.03e27250@panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Things to say when the subpoena comes.

1.  "My mental and or physical condition makes it impossible for me to
travel to the location stated in the subpoena."

2.  "My religious belief (or philosophy fulfilling the same role in my life
that religion fulfills in the lives of believers) prevents me from telling
the truth under compulsion.

3.  "I suffer from a recognized social/affective disorder that prevents me
from obeying government orders."

4.  "If administered an oath, I will refuse to promise to tell the truth
but will instead reserve the right to lie."

5.  "I will have left the jurisdiction prior to my proposed testimony date
so you can fuck yourselves."

6.  "I have no knowledge of anything mentioned in the subpoena." 

7.  "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as punishment for
crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within
the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction."  

8.  "As a committed believer in the independent rights of jurors, I intend
to inform any Grand or Petit juries that I encounter of their right to
judge the law, the facts, and the validity of all government actions."

9.  "I do not posses any government-issued photo ID and thus cannot travel
to the location stated in the subpoena. 

DCF  




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 06:18:00 +0800
To: "'cypherpunks@cyberpass.net>
Subject: RE: capitalism run amuck by Korton
Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A193A7AA3@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



David Korton wrote:
> exchange rates and stock markets into wild gyrations wholly 
> unrelated to any underlying economic reality. 

Who has both the motive to deny economic reality and the power to do so
in the short term?

> To understand what is happening we must educate ourselves 
> about the nature of money 

http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/money.html

> we give to the institutions and people who control its 
> creation and allocation the power to decide whether we 
> shall live in prosperity or destitution.

Who controls it, how and why?

> Contrary to its claims, capitalism is showing itself to
> be the mortal enemy of democracy and the market. 

Capitalism and democracy have nothing to do with each other.

"capitalism is...the mortal enemy of ...the market."

"capitalism is...the mortal enemy of ...the [free] market."

"capitalism is...the mortal enemy of ...[free] market [capitalism]."

"capitalism is...the mortal enemy of ...[capitalism]."

Hmmm, there is a problem here.

"[Modern pseudo-]capitalism is the mortal enemy of [free] market
[capitalism]."

There, that works.

> Under capitalism, money rules. 

Money can't rule, it is not sentient. Who controls money?

> The challenge is to replace the global capitalist 
> economy with a properly regulated ...economy 

> United Nations, as the protection of people and 
> communities from predatory global corporations 
> and finance

I can't believe after 69 years people are still shoveling the same
socialist and protectionist bullshit.

I cannot figure out how someone can get so close to pointing on the
problem with [modern] capitalism and still come to all the wrong
conclusions.

I've never seen populism and [free] market economics twisted together so
perversely.

     Matt


"I think you have to define what you mean by a free market.  
If you have a fiat currency, which is what everyone has in the 
world --- ...That is not a free market.  Central banks of 
necessity determine what the money supply is.  If you're on a 
gold standard or other mechanism in which the central banks do 
not have discretion, then the system works automatically. " 
    --Federal Reserve Chairman, Alan Greenspan






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Jay T. Lee" 
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 03:35:39 +0800
To: fight-censorship@vorlon.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Child-Molesting Forger's Chilling Confession!!!1!
Message-ID: <199810261855.SAA14526@charon.pjm.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: application/x-www-form-urlencoded

application/www-form-urlencoded


From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 04:40:23 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Uncle Sam Wants Spooks.
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Delivered-To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
X-Sender: believer@telepath.com
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 09:31:49 -0600
To: believer@telepath.com
From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Uncle Sam Wants Spooks.
Mime-Version: 1.0
Sender: owner-ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
Precedence: list
Reply-To: believer@telepath.com
Status: U

Source:  Wired
http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/15816.html

Uncle Sam Wants Spooks
 by Arik Hesseldahl

 4:00 a.m.26.Oct.98.PST
 With the Cold War over and United States
 intelligence agencies in flux, both the Central
 Intelligence Agency and the National Security
 Agency have begun to struggle with an issue
 plaguing the private sector: how to hire and
 retain talented employees.

 In a world that increasingly uses computer
 networks to communicate and transfer
 information, the agencies are specifically looking
 for people who can navigate the Net and other
 networks.

 The CIA launched the most ambitious hiring
 program in the agency's history earlier this year,
 and it is expected to hire record numbers of
 case officers between now and 2005.

 Along with a new, Java-heavy recruiting section
 on the agency's home page, the agency is
 advertising widely in magazines like The
 Economist and recruiting on college campuses
 and within the military.

 "Our recruiting efforts are much more focused
 than they have been in recent years and we have
 a better idea of our target audience," said CIA
 spokeswoman Anya Gilsher. "We're facing
 increasingly difficult challenges like terrorism,
 mass destructive weapons, and narcotics.
 These are all very difficult targets, which require
 innovative approaches and a talented work
 force."

 Computer programmers and engineers are as in
 demand in the intelligence business as they are
 in any other industry, Gilsher said.

 "We're looking for people who can deal with
 different computer systems and software.
 Someone who is creative in their ability to
 handle and manipulate information technology
 and build programs that could be useful to us,"
 she said.

 While Gilsher would not go into specifics, an
 article in The New York Times in June suggests
 that the proliferation of computer networks
 around the globe has, for example, complicated
 the ability of agents to slip in and out of
 countries covertly using fake passports.

 It's a different story for the National Security
 Agency, the country's super-secret signals
 intelligence agency. In an unusually candid
 series of answers to written questions, the NSA
 said it is struggling with one of the same issues
 plaguing the private sector: employee retention.

 A recent article in the magazine Government
 Executive said the agency is suffering a "brain
 drain," losing some of its best code-makers and
 code-breakers to the private sector. In a written
 statement, NSA spokesman Patrick Weadon
 confirmed that the agency is working harder than
 it has in the past to attract and keep its
 employees.

 "NSA, like most of the nation's IT community,
 has had significant challenges in hiring and
 retaining IT personnel," Weadon wrote. "Having
 said that, NSA has been successful attracting
 computer professionals with the stimulating
 nature of the work, student programs, and the
 total benefits package."

 The NSA also happens to be the country's
 single-biggest employer of mathematicians, and
 expects to hire more than 100 Ph.D.-level
 mathematicians in the next three years.

 Like the CIA, the NSA has launched a
 recruitment Web page, which has attracted 20
 percent of its recent resumes. The NSA also
 posts its job openings on employment Web
 sites like Job Web and Career Mosaic.

 The agency has been aggressively marketing
 itself to students, offering several internship
 programs. One program gives college juniors 12
 weeks of summer work experience, after which
 they return to school for their senior year with a
 job offer in hand. Another program allows college
 students to alternate working for the agency and
 going to school each semester.

 Some personnel also qualify for a fully funded
 graduate studies program, during which they can
 go to school full time for a year and still earn a
 salary, provided they commit to work for NSA for
 three years.

 NSA employees aren't likely to take jobs for the
 money, however. Computer science jobs at the
 NSA pay between US$35,000 and $70,000 a
 year, much less than in the private sector.

 "IT professionals seek out the NSA due to the
 unique nature of our work," Weadon wrote. "This
 has made us successful in attracting computer
 professionals over the past several years, and
 we believe this appeal will continue into the
 future."

 Not everyone agrees. Steve Aftergood, a
 research analyst for the Federation of American
 Scientists, said the allure of working in the
 intelligence community is wearing thin.

 "The intelligence agencies have an unattractive
 air about them," Aftergood said. "They have an
 aura of failure about them, especially in recent
 years. Rightfully or wrongly, they have been
 attacked as incompetent and even obsolete.
 Those charges may or may not be true, but they
 cast a long shadow over the agencies in the
 public mind."

 In recent years, the CIA has faced its share of
 problems within and criticisms from without. This
 year, for example, the agency was criticized for
 not having predicted nuclear weapons tests by
 India and Pakistan. In 1994, CIA employee
 Aldrich Ames was caught after revealing the
 identities of CIA operatives in the Soviet Union
 over the course of nine years. For its part, the
 NSA has been criticized for its efforts to keep
 strong encryption systems out of the hands of
 private citizens.

 Both the CIA and NSA still maintain a
 technological edge over the private sector, but
 Aftergood said that lead is shrinking.

 "The reality is that the private sector now
 competes in many areas that used to be the
 exclusive domain of the intelligence agencies,"
 he said, citing encryption, computer software
 implementation, and analysis of foreign military
 and economic conditions as examples.

 The schools that train the spies and intelligence
 analysts of the future are placing a new
 importance on learning to use the Net and other
 online resources to get the job done. Robert
 Heibel, director of the Research/Intelligence
 Analyst Training Program at Mercyhurst College
 in Erie, Pennsylvania, said students get a
 thorough exposure to the Net and computers in
 general.

 The program trains students to "drink from the
 firehose," to glean important nuggets of
 information as tools for decision makers, Heibel
 said.

 Graduates of the program have gone on to
 become analysts for the CIA, NSA, FBI and
 other agencies swimming in the intelligence
 community's alphabet soup, he said.

 "We teach a concept called open source and
 public domain intelligence -- that is, taking what
 is in the public domain and creating new
 knowledge by analysis and interpretation," he
 said. "If you spend 20 percent of your
 intelligence budget on open source intelligence
 you'll be able to answer 70 percent of the boss's
 questions."

 Applying for a job with the CIA is easy: Send a
 resume. The CIA scans the resumes it gets
 using optical character recognition technology.
 An applicant for either agency must also submit
 to a thorough background investigation, a
 polygraph test, and medical and psychological
 examinations, said Gilsher, who went through
 the process herself. The process currently takes
 five to six months, but the agency is hoping to
 shorten that to three or four months, she said.

 Copyright (c) 1994-98 Wired Digital Inc. All rights reserved.
----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------


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--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Robert A. Costner" 
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 04:17:28 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: MIB Subponeas
In-Reply-To: <199810241358.JAA15466@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981026144314.038c6020@rboc.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 01:15 PM 10/26/98 -0500, Duncan Frissell wrote:
>9.  "I do not posses any government-issued photo ID and thus cannot travel
>to the location stated in the subpoena. 

ROTFLMAO...

This last one is too funny to not use.  I don't have a subpoena, but I can
just see myself writing back explaining this and requesting assistance with
a plane flight to solve this problem.


  -- Robert Costner                  Phone: (770) 512-8746
     Electronic Frontiers Georgia    mailto:pooh@efga.org  
     http://www.efga.org/            run PGP 5.0 for my public key




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: pgut001@cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann)
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 10:20:40 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: TriSnakeoil questions
Message-ID: <90936671031620@cs26.cs.auckland.ac.nz>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I'm currently sitting in a booth at a Tandem user show directly
opposite the Atalla one.  If there's anything in particular which
someone wants to ask them, let me know and I'll see how 
knowledgeable their salesdroids are.  Dunno how reliable my 
access to mail will be in the next day or two, if you're local
you could try calling me at the hotel I'm staying, which is the
Fairmont in San Jose (although you've got a whelks chance in a
supernova of actually catching me in my room, so you'll probably
have to leave a message).

Peter.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 07:52:38 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Rendering ( was MIB Subponeas )
In-Reply-To: <6ef52a1a.3634f180@aol.com>
Message-ID: <36350081.157B@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



(Mr/Mrs/Ms) Hack,

Many thanks in advance for your generous and gracious assistance.

Please tell me where I've headed off the proper path.

Without having read any detailed descriptions I thought an AP bot might
do the following :

Form a token pool associated with some desired event.

Accept tokens from any source into that pool.

Transfer the entire pool of tokens to the entity that could demonstrate
foreknowledge of significant details of the actual event outcome.

Couldn't this be more general than just AP? Generalized it could be used
for any collectively rewarded effort but its main application looks like
anonymous conspiracy. This may be good, maybe not. What I was wondering
was if in a very generalized form the server might be "innocent," a mere
public bulletin board.

Also, couldn't a server like this be implemented as a distributed system
that could survive the destruction of some fraction of its body?

Again, I apologize for being slow but I do try.

Regards,
Mike




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jan Dobrucki 
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 00:05:44 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: I'm getting mail from people i never heard off...
Message-ID: <36349272.5E486C17@qmail.pjwstk.waw.pl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



This is a weird one. It had nothing in the body of the message... so
what the heck can this all mean?
JD

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                CCHLIS@LIS NET
            From: 
                "Mohammed Lazhar" 
              To: 
                Jan_Dobrucki_ 
       Message-ID: 
                <852566A4.001CE903.00@notes.cch-lis.com>
            Date: 
                Wed, 21 Oct 1998 01:15:46 -0400
           Subject: 
                Mohammed Lazhar is out of the office.
      Mime-Version: 
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       Content-type: 
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           Status: 
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: jkthomson 
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 09:20:04 +0800
To: ILovToHack@aol.com
Subject: Re: Rendering (flame)
In-Reply-To: <6ef52a1a.3634f180@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981026164112.00912100@dowco.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 05:02 PM 10/26/98 EST, you wrote:
>First of all i want to apoligize for posting this.
>Second i am a little off on the AP bot could some one please take the time to
>explain this to me.  Thanks.  
>-Mike

hey, dude...  how's that 'law suit' coming along?  I've been waiting a long
time for an answer from you, did you manage to get one in my size?


------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ILovToHack@aol.com
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 18:10:37 EDT
To: jkthomson@bigfoot.com
Subject: Re:
X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214

You post a message like that again and you will be sued for libel my screen
name is just a nic and by the way if you think i am jokeing about the law suit
try me




--------------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
 james 'keith' thomson   www.bigfoot.com/~ceildh
 jkthomson:C181 991A 405C EAFB 2C46 79B5 B1DC DB78 8196 122D [06.07.98]
 ceildh   :1D79 59AF ED75 5945 6003 8240 DA34 ACCA 9DE4 6BC9 [05.14.98]
 ICQ:354111  at pgp.mit.edu     ...and former sysop of tnbnog BBS
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
If you see a man approaching you with the obvious intention of doing
you good, you should run for your life.
=======================================================================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ILovToHack@aol.com
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 07:07:33 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Rendering ( was MIB Subponeas )
Message-ID: <6ef52a1a.3634f180@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



First of all i want to apoligize for posting this.
Second i am a little off on the AP bot could some one please take the time to
explain this to me.  Thanks.  
-Mike




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Steve Bellovin 
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 07:04:33 +0800
To: Vin McLellan 
Subject: log files (was: Re: dbts: Cryptographic Dog Stocks, The Dirigible Biplane, and Sending the Wizards Back to Menlo Park )
Message-ID: <199810262226.RAA12688@postal.research.att.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> 	It strikes me that while Mr. Hettinga and other e$ seers may have
> spent the past decade considering how to allow transactional exchanges to
> escape a human linkage, most professional sysops and network managers have
> been concerned with how to strengthen the linkage between on-line accounts,
> actions, and audit trails -- and the humans to which a user's account has
> been assigned.

Leaving aside the rest of this discussion, Vin touches on a point that
I think has been ignored by some:  operations demand log files.  That
is -- and I'm doffing my security hat here and donning the hat of someone
who has been running computer systems and networks for 30+ years --
when I'm trying to manage a system and/or troubleshoot a problem,
I *want* log files, as many as I can get and cross-referenced 17 different
ways.  This isn't a security issue -- most system administrator headaches are
due to the "benign indifference of the universe", or maybe to Murphy's Law
-- but simply a question of having enough information to trace the
the perturbations caused to the system by any given stimulus.

The more anonymity, and the more privacy cut-outs, the harder this is.
I claim, therefore, that the true cost of running such a system is
inherently *higher*.  There may be, as some have claimed, offesetting
operational advantages.  But the savings from those advantages need to
be balanced against losses due to hard-to-find bugs, or even bugs that
one isn't aware of because there's insufficient logging.  Remember
that double-entry bookkeeping catches all sorts of errors, not just
(or even primarily) embezzlement.

To be sure, one can assert that the philosophical gains -- privacy,
libertarianism, what have you -- are sufficiently important that this
price is worth paying.  With all due respect, I will assert that
that debate is off-topic for this list, and is best discussed over
large quantities of ethanol.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Reeza! 
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 16:20:48 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: so, what did Toto *do*,......
In-Reply-To: <199810251155.HAA11099@privacy.nb.ca>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981026175759.007e9100@205.83.192.13>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 07:55 AM 10/25/98 -0400, Joseph 'Anonymous' Howe wrote:
>Reeza! wrote:
>> 
>> >all seen posted here. Personally, I found them a lot milder than Reeza!'s
>> >projection of his suicide fantasies, for instance.
>> 
>> Huh? Well Goodness Fuck, Does this mean I am notorious as well?
>
>In a post primarily about your feelings about Klinton, you outlined
>a detailed suicide fantasy ("meet your maker") and suggested other people
>might like to eat a bullet too. That's closer to presidential assasination
>than Toto ever got.

If you will review that again, you will find that the barb was directed
towards persons other than the President. I may not like THAT man, but I
still must respect the Office and position he holds. I was not calling for
a sanction of the president. I was suggesting in very blunt terms that
various of his supporters would do the world a favor by getting off (of
it). Especially the ones who rationalize and dismiss his various (and
multiple) piccadilloes because he supports their pet social project.

Reeza!




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 07:39:34 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Available For Download: Chapter on Electronic Cash for  Upcoming Handbook by CRC Press
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


From: brands@xs4all.nl
X-Sender: brands@xs4all.nl (Unverified)
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 22:09:06 +0100
To: Robert Hettinga 
Subject: Available For Download: Chapter on Electronic Cash for  Upcoming
 Handbook by CRC Press
Cc: Digital Bearer Settlement List 
Mime-Version: 1.0
Sender: 
Precedence: Bulk
List-Subscribe: 
X-Web-Archive: http://www.philodox.com/dbs-archive/

Hi all,

In light of some questions about my electronic cash systems by Frank Sudia
and Robert Hettinga, and some requests I received via e-mail, I decided to
make available my chapter on electronic cash that I wrote mid 1996 for the
upcoming "Handbook on Algorithms and Theory of Computation," Michael
Atallah (editor), CRC Press, ISBN 0849326494. It is an introduction to
electronic cash, and contains a high-level description of my system as well
as a highly practical implementations of it.

You can download the PDF file from

	http://www.xs4all.nl/~brands

Alternatively, get it directly as

	http://www.xs4all.nl/~brands/draft.pdf

Regards,
Stefan

PS The above book chapter has a very narrow focus, and does a poor job of
highlighting the generality of my techniques, which are much more generally
applicable than just for the purpose of electronic cash. Over the past two
years, I have been busy writing a book, with the preliminary title
"Electronic Money and Digital Eligibility Certificates." Currently, over
500 of the approximately 750 pages are finished, and I aim to have it
published early next year. If the publisher allows it, large parts of the
book will be made available as PDF files as well, but nothing is clear yet.
There are also some very real commercial things happening right now; I hope
to be able to announce something in the next few months as well.

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Vin McLellan 
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 06:53:40 +0800
To: Robert Hettinga 
Subject: Re: dbts: Cryptographic Dog Stocks, The Dirigible Biplane, and  Sending the Wizards Back to Menlo Park
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



[Subtitle:"Identity, Authentication, & Dunkin Donut Mysticism."]

	At 12:18 AM -0400 on 10/23/98, Vin McLellan, speaking for legions of
SDTI/RSADSI fans (and, evidently, retainers), wrote:

>> 	Hettinga's apparent scorn for modern cryptography's obsession with
>> strong authentication  -- now manifest in the intensity with which
>> professionals worry the issues around PKC binding, key certification,
>> digital signatures, CA procedures (and in the demand for smartcards to
>> secure X509 certs apart from the networked CPU) -- bespeaks a truly
>> iconoclastic mind.

	At which, Mr. Hettinga took a bow ("Thank you. I think.") and
proceeded to argue for his Vision, yet again:

>Look, folks, "strong authentication" is not the problem. It's biometric
>*identity* which is the problem. Cryptography gives us the ability to do
>away with "identity"-based key-mapping altogether. A key is a permission to
>do something specific with a microprocessor, no more, or less. It doesn't
>"mean" anything else. Certainly, if you go back and look at the actual,
>legal, definitions of "signature", or "certificate", they don't mean what
>people like Verisign (or say, the State of Utah) says their authentication
>technology does.

	But what if we don't _want_ to lose the link between a key (think
of it as a secret) and the identity of a biological entity?

	What if -- instead of anonymity -- our goal is accountability?

	Truth is, I don't think we're reading from the same page here.

	(Or maybe, more to the point, we've been working in different
dimensions.)

	It strikes me that while Mr. Hettinga and other e$ seers may have
spent the past decade considering how to allow transactional exchanges to
escape a human linkage, most professional sysops and network managers have
been concerned with how to strengthen the linkage between on-line accounts,
actions, and audit trails -- and the humans to which a user's account has
been assigned.

	In this context, any capacity of modern cryptography "to do away
with 'identity'-based key-mapping" is irrelvant or worse. The mechanics of
"user authentication" -- validating that a remote human is indeed the same
human earlier enrolled and assigned a user account on this computer system
-- are the foundation of whatever we know about computer and network
security today.

	It may be that the structure and requirements of contemporary
corporate networks are irrelevant, just so much background babel, to
e-commerce visionaries like Rob and others on the e$ lists. This is a
problem in both cultures. Mr. Hettinga intones:

>Software will be utterly replicable and will be sold recursively, and
>untraceably, on a bearer basis, primarily because that's the cheapest way
>to safely trade money for information on a ubiquitous geodesic public
>network.

	... and I nod, a closet Hettinga fan. I trace the outline of his
spiel in my mind like an M.C. Escher tessellation: bug-free software,
stateless utopias, and buyers careless of liability. Charming. 2lst Century
stuff. Maybe. Maybe not.

	Then I turn back to the bet-your-business questions of data and
system security, where (even with a batch of theory that is universally
accepted) implementation hassles routinely swamp practioners.

	The mundane management and control issues associated with system
and network access, and the range of privileges granted to an on-line
entity, remain a vexing problem.  The difficulty and sometimes the cost of
managing reliable "user authentication is an issue;" more often, however,
the core problem is that the owners of systems and networks aren't
convinced the value of the data and systems they have online deserves a
per-user security investment equal to, say, a modem.

	User Authentication, not coincidentally, is the business of SDTI.

	In large part because of the magic of RSA and PKI, the mechanical
and virtual options for user authentication are changing, even as the
fundamentals remain the same.

	In enterprise networks; in extended Extranets; in business to
business connections that replace, enhance, or mimic EDI -- there is great
hope that scalable PKI will allow not only confidentiality and strong
authentication, but also the other cryptographic services possible only
thru public key cryptography: digital sigs for message and source
authentication, non-repudiation (with a trusted Current Time source), and
confidential communications between parties which have had no prior
contact.

	Nitty-gritty wonderful stuff.

	PKI (and the "'identity'-based key-mapping" that Mr. Hettinga is so
eager to do away with) are viewed with great hope among many if not most IT
professionals. Corporate security managers hope that the utility and power
of PKC's extended capabilities will define this security technology as an
"enabler" -- something users want because it makes their work easier --
rather than the auditor-mandated burden that security mechanisms have
traditionally been.

	For 30-odd years, info security professionals have used a model
which declares that there are only three ways for a machine to validate or
authenticate that a remote human is the person who was initially identified
and enrolled (by a trusted Admin) as the user authorized to use a computer
account:

_"something known," a memorized password or PIN;
_"something held," a physical token that can be carried as a personal
identifier; or
_"something one is," a biometric like a fingerprint or voiceprint.

	Graybeards like myself tend to filter all the rumpus about
corporate PKIs and global/local keys through this traditional model -- if
only because many crypto mavens seem so thoughtless about leaving a
potentially powerful piece of data (an PKC private key) relatively
unprotected on a PC or networked workstation.

	The industry's traditional definition of "strong" authentication
demands that an authenticating CPU require direct evidence of at least two
of the three modes of ID authentication before a user is allowed access to
protected resources. (The idea is that an attacker would have to subvert at
least two independent systems to corrupt the authentiation.)

	[For those unfamiliar with the company, SDTI's bread and butter
business is this two-factor authentication. The company is best known for
the three or four million SecurID tokens it has shipped: key fobs or
credit-card sized tokens which continually and automatically hash a secret
seed and Current Time to generate a 6-8 digit alphanumeric "tokencode."

	[SDTI's authentication server, called an ACE/Server, manages the
records of tens of thousands of concurrent SecurID holders and validates or
rejects two-factor authentication calls (a tokencode and a memorized PIN)
which are relayed through a network of outlying ACE/Agents (which are often
embedded in other third-party network products.) Due to the popularity of
the SecurID with users, ACE/Agents are all but ubiquitous. Virtually all
commercial VPNs, firewalls, communication and terminal servers -- multiple
product lines from some 60 independent vendors, from Oracle to IBM -- ship
with ACE/Agent code embedded in them. See: http://www.securid.com/partners ]

	Meanwhile, for one possible future, Mr. Hettinga promotes a
crypto-anarchic buyer/seller paradigm:

>...control of a given cryptographic key is completely orthogonal to
>the idea of identity. You can map an identity to it, but you don't have to,
>because possession of the key is "permission", "authority", enough, all by
>itself. *Who* you give permission to, by name, fingerprint, or physical
>address, doesn't matter....

	Ummm. *Who* matters a great deal to the pros who run today's
networks. Security, audit, and accountability all presume a firm grip on
who is on-line and what he's doing. (Different dimensions, right?)

	For access and privilege managment in PKI-enhanced corporate
network, most of us want -- at the very least! -- an RSA key/secret firmly
mapped to a user/identity.

	[Mind you, until that private or secret key is further protected by
being encased in a token-like smartcard or PCMCIA card -- and until that
smartcard _also_ requires a memorized password or PIN to access or use that
key -- veteran network or system managers will never be comfortable with a
PKC-based authentication...despite the wonderfully grandular controls PKI
can offer on networked resources.  Truth is, we all know that networked PCs
are risky platforms -- so until _all_ the crypto processing is shifted off
the PC to the isolated smartcard, infosec pros will worry and kvetch.
Expect it.]

	Readers who have the patience to read Rob's essays are probably
still with me, so let me point out that this cross-dimensional cat fight
only began when Mr. Hettinga stomped on SDTI and used the companies' recent
travails in the stock market as a launching pad for another essay into the
stratosphere. Were the original post a discussion of the Dow, or even
SDTI's stock price, I'd just duck and run.

	(Frankly, I don't understand the stock market... and, unlike Mr.
Hettinga, I don't have a great deal of respect for the opinions that seem
to inform it. To me it's mostly tulip speculation. Mr. H's pal, "Anonymous"
-- who made his bones with the declaration that SDTI's ACE/SecurID
authentication system is doomed because it is ten years old -- was offering
what many brokers refer to as an in-depth analysis;-)

	I only challenged Mr. Hettinga because his initial comments about
SDTI seemed to indicate such vast ignorance of the contemporary security
market.

	No one who knows anything about SDTI and that market would say that
the only thing SDTI has that is worth anything is its stake in Verisign
(and, of course, it was Rob, not the Globe, who said that.)

	In the absence of ubiquitous smartcard readers, it seems to me
equally foolish to declare that X509 certificates make SecurID and similar
two-factor tokens "obsolete" (and, of course, it was Rob, not the Globe,
who said that too.)

	"Close enough for an Internet rant" doesn't cut it as an apologia
-- not when a prominent commentator smears a public company on a half-dozen
widely-read Internet forums. (Meaning no insult, Rob, but there is a
modicum of responsibility that goes along with all those seats at the front
table.)

	Seemingly piqued by the response to his initial comments, Mr.
Hettinga then got down to a little bare-knuckle company valuation:

>In the meantime, Vin, hang on to your SDTI stock, but probably just for
>it's residual value to some future investor, like SDTI evidently bought
>RSADSI for its own residual value, and, aparently, for whatever mystical
>value the market now puts on Verisign.

	What SDTI _does_ have -- as even the Globe's thumbnail sketch
acknowledged -- is a huge installed base and the stature of a sophisticated
market leader in a dynamic market. SDTI also has a trust relationship with
its customer base, the corporate network managers, that is the envy of many
real or potential competitors. (RSADSI, the SDTI subsidiary, is rather
tight with its customers -- the commercial software developers -- as well.
Both firms have also excelled at developing mutually- advantageous
partnerships with multiple companies.)  For most of the 1990s, SDTI has
also fielded the largest dedicated sales force in the world selling
computer security.

	Against a field of a half-dozen competitors who sell two-factor
authentication systems, SDTI owns over half the market. Among the choice
corporate customers who have installations with more than 1,500 seats, I'd
guess SDTI has over 70 percent of the market.  Among the Fortune 100,
two-thirds of them rely on SecurIDs and ACE authentication servers.

	Potent evidence of SDTI's stature among its customers is in the
results of a recent survey of hundreds of NT network managers by the highly
respected SANS Institute. See: http://sans.org/powertools.htm  Check out
what vendors and security technologies they trust most. Check out what
percentage of SDTI's current customers recommend the company and its
products to others!

	Entrust, NAI, SCC et al would kill for those 90-plus percent
numbers;-)  And the same survey, done today, would probably earn SDTI even
higher marks with their new PKI-based Domain Authentication for NT.

	Quiz: What dbts market commentator airily preaches: "[If] you don't
go looking for money anywhere but in your customer's pockets, you'll do
just fine."  It couldn't be the same guy who's now reeling off these pious
but opaque little fables, could it?

>So, right now, after all that, um, exercise, SDTI/RSADSI/Verisign reminds
>me an awful lot of that old joke about the two old Texas spinsters who,
>walking down a dusty road, came across a talking frog claiming to turn into
>an oil baron, if only one of them would kiss him to prove it.
>
>"A talking frog", said one of them, putting the frog in her apron pocket,
>"is worth something."

	(Hummmm. Betcha froggie -- even if he just wanted a kiss -- would
have taken the time to find out something about the oil business before he
claimed to be an Oil Baron.  Not all self-declared market analysts are so
meticulous;-)

	There are folks who are certain that Y2K will be blessed with the
Second Coming.

	And then there is Mr. Hettinga, Anonymous, and others who have a
gleeful vision of doom, debt, and dismal ROI for Security Dynamics.

	I find both suspect. Luckily, in both cases, we can get the truth
(or at least a consensus one way of the other) within a year or so. I
wouldn't want to wager on the Lord's Schedule, but in the case of SDTI's
fortune and fate -- well, either the Doomsday Prophet or the Optimistic
Courtier will be proven a fool fairly quickly.

	(What's say, Robert?  A New Millenium wager? Winner gets his choice
of either a case of decent wine or a box of hollow points on 01/01/00?)

	Suerte,
		_Vin



-----
      Vin McLellan + The Privacy Guild + 
  53 Nichols St., Chelsea, MA 02150 USA <617> 884-5548
                         -- <@><@> --





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 08:45:28 +0800
To: Vin McLellan 
Subject: Re: dbts: Cryptographic Dog Stocks, The Dirigible Biplane, and   Sending the Wizards Back to Menlo Park
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 5:02 PM -0500 on 10/26/98, Vin McLellan wrote:


> 	(Or maybe, more to the point, we've been working in different
> dimensions.)

Right. Exactly. Attacking flatland from the third dimension has always been
my special curse. :-).



I hope if I can be excused if I don't want to chase you down that
particular rabbit-hole anymore, Vin.

Sorry to disappoint, but there are *lots* of other, more qualified people
around to walk through *that* particular looking glass, to mix my metaphors
like a doormouse.  I'm interested in *lots* of other stuff besides the
traceability of "on-line" audit trails and mapping meatspace book-entry
transaction processing to the internet like so much financial shovelware.

I will, however say, once again, that you can have reputation in
cypherspace without any biometric "identity" whatsoever, modulo the
footprints we all leave when we do stuff anyway. I wrote a rather extended
rant about this a while ago, in November or so last year, and everyone on
these lists has seen it. (Some, unfortunately, more than once. :-).) Let me
know if you want to send it to you under separate cover, and, if memory
serves, it may even be on the old Shipwright site,
.


Anyway, if you'd like to talk to someone who'll take up the cudgel, you
might want to talk to folks like Carl Ellison and Perry Metzger, who just
did an entire session at the USENIX electronic commerce conference on just
this kind of stuff. They're much more, um, curioser and curioser about
key/identity orthogonality than I am. :-). I just assume what they more or
less prove, to my own satisfaction.

I think I've said all I care to on the subject. And watch out for the
little blue mushrooms. The visuals last for days...

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga

PS: I would note, by way of a plug, that the DCSB meeting next Tuesday will
probably be a *great* place to talk about this, as Dan Geer from CertCo
(speaking of the USENIX electronic commerce conference) will certainly be
talking about this kind of thing -- and other such fun stuff.

-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 10:44:07 +0800
To: brands@xs4all.nl
Subject: digital cash
Message-ID: <363529FB.686B@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

I am reading

http://www.xs4all.nl/~brands/draft.pdf

Attached in mirrored at http://www.aci.net/kalliste/bw1    

I only built THEM.  I am not into crypto.  But sort-of
understand how it works.

Let's hope this gets settled.

bill

Title: Black and White Test of Cryptographic Algorithms




	

	
		
			
				
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 17:11:41 +0800
To: "'cypherpunks@cyberpass.net>
Subject: FW: Death, Politics and the Net
Message-ID: <33CCFE438B9DD01192E800A024C84A193A7AA6@mossbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




...and I was just thinking the other day it would be cool to create a
government blocking service maintaining a list of disallowed IPs and
providing a click-thru redirect agreement complete with legal
enforcement. ;)

	Matt

-----Original Message-----
From: James S. Tyre [mailto:j.s.tyre@CYBERPASS.NET] 
Sent: Friday, October 23, 1998 2:59 PM
To: CYBERIA-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
Subject: Death, Politics and the Net


[There *is* a cyberia connection in here, somewhere, I think.]

I'm sure you all (in the U.S., at least) have heard of the murdered
Tennessee state senator, and that his opponent in the upcoming election
is now charged with the crime.

Well, turns out that the boys aren't just from anywhere in TN, but from
Putnam County, home of the cookie-monster suit between the local guvvies
and the Putnam Pit .  So, always interested
in alternative viewpoints, thought I'd see what the Pit had to say, in
it's own inimitable way.  Found that its home page now says what
follows. Thought it might interest some, for reasons unrelated to the
alleged crime.

----
Welcome to The Putnam Pit online

Because of the costs associated with producing The Putnam Pit caused by
local government civil rights violations, government officials,
employees and their agents may no longer access this site without a
subscription. This site is a private forum. It is private property and
protected by copyright law and the fourth amendment to the United States
Constitution. If you do not work for or represent the Cookeville or
Putnam County, Tenn., governments, are not using a government computer
or government Internet account and agree no portion of any material
posted here will be made available to the governments of Cookeville or
Putnam County, Tenn., or their agents, click here for free access.


Notice to employees, officials or agents of the Cookeville or Putnam
County, Tenn., governments, and those using a government computer or
government Internet account:
If you are an employee, official or agent of the Cookeville or Putnam
County, Tenn., governments, or you are using a government computer or
government Internet account you must purchase a subscription to access
The Putnam Pit. A subscription costs $20 and may be obtained by sending
a check to The Putnam Pit, P.O. Box 1483, Cookeville, Tenn. 38503. If
you access any page of the material managed and owned by The Putnam Pit,
Inc., without a subscription, you agree by that access to pay $500 per
incident of access to each page accessed every time you access it. You
further agree to waive all rights to contest collection of any debt
thereby incurred, and enter into this agreement on behalf of the
government entity on whose computer or through whose Internet account
your access was facilitated. You further represent by clicking below and
accessing The Putnam Pit's private and copyrighted property to allow The
Putnam Pit or its agents to inspect the hard drive of your computer to
determine the number of times the site was accessed according to he
terms of this contract to determine the amount owed. click here




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: totaltel@total.emap.com
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 09:18:28 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Telecom Italia to Appoint ceo this
Message-ID: <98Oct27.012743gmt.28126@ebc-fw-01.emap.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Welcome to the Total Telecom news update.

http://www.totaltele.com

-------------------------------------

today's top story:-

Scramble to Appoint Telecom Italia ceo this Week

Telecom Italia SpA, Italy's former telephone monopoly, aims to find a chief executive within a week, an official said, after executive chairman Gian Mario Rossignolo resigned, ending a 10-month tenure 

http://www.totaltele.com/cgi-bin/news.cgi/20250/worldmore.html

*****************************************

ITU Plenipotentiary 98 Conference in Minneapolis.

with the conference moving into it's third week, keep up to date with events as they unfold over the remaining two weeks.  Plus an update of the election results. 

http://www.totaltele.com/plenipot98/

*****************************************

current Total Telecom headlines include.....

Nokia Turns to Networks After Becoming Top Mobile Phone Company

Nokia Oyj, the world's biggest mobile phone company, said it's introducing several products that will boost subscriber capacity up to 10 times as it plans to increase its presence as a network supplier...

http://www.totaltele.com/cgi-bin/news.cgi/20274/worldmore.html
------------------

SBC Moves in on Bell Atlantic with Completion of SNET Buy

SBC Communications Inc. completed its $6.5 billion purchase of Southern New England Telecommunications Corp., moving the No. 2 U.S. local telephone company into No. 1 Bell Atlantic Corp.'s territory. 

http://www.totaltele.com/cgi-bin/news.cgi/20270/worldmore.html
----------------

Carrier 1 Offers ISPs a Pay-Per-Use Service

Carrier 1 has rolled out the first usage-based billing service for pan-European wholesale IP traffic. Europe's newest wholesaler is pitching the pay-per-packet facility as a cost-saving option to attract 

http://www.totaltele.com/cgi-bin/news.cgi/20275/worldmore.html

---------------

Omnicom Revived by Long Distance Supermarket Tie-up

Omnicom SA shares surged 20% after Carrefour SA, France's largest food retailer, picked the French phone company to offer long-distance phone services to its clients. In a partnership with Omnicom, Carrefour......
 
http://www.totaltele.com/cgi-bin/news.cgi/20271/worldmore.html

----------------

Telekom Says No Date Set for Share Sale

Deutsche Telekom AG, Europe's largest telephone company, said it hasn't set a date to sell a second slice of the company, denying a report that a share sale planned for next spring would be postponed. 

http://www.totaltele.com/cgi-bin/news.cgi/20272/worldmore.html
---------------- 

plus

Asian-American Axis Leaves Europe in the Cold

FCC Begins Overhaul of Complex Phone Subsidy System

Telecom Italia Chairman Rossignolo Resigns

Telia Raises Netia Stake Ahead of Polish Deregulation 

AT&T, BellSouth to Form New Company to Manage Wireless Venture

.....go to the front page for the full list of headlines

http://www.totaltele.com

********************************************

Forgotten your password?  For help go to:-

http://www.totaltele.com/register/reghelp.shtml

Any other problems, email:- webmaster@totaltele.com

-------------------

If you wish to be removed from future mailings, please reply 
with "Remove" in the subject line and we will automatically block you from this list.

Thank you for reading Total Telecom





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 15:25:33 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: FWD: Judge does right thing - Rio goes to market
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981027012937.00b80100@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



This is forwarded from the cyberia-l list; looks like the 
judge has done the right thing (or at least for this phase)
by allowing the Rio MP3 player to be shipped.  Yeah!

>Date:         Tue, 27 Oct 1998 03:29:39 -0400
>Sender: Law & Policy of Computer Communications 
>From: Michael Sims 
>Subject:      Rio goes to market
>
>http://www.nytimes.com/library/tech/98/10/cyber/articles/27rio.html
>http://www.mp3.com/news/116.html
>http://www.mp3.com/news/117.html
>
>The Judge in the Diamond Multimedia/RIAA lawsuit declines to extend
>her earlier order barring the shipment of the Rio device.
>
>"However, in the 18 page ruling handed down today, Judge Collins
>found that the plaintiff did not demonstrate a causal relationship
>between the Rio and unauthorized copying. Furthermore, she found that
>the Rio did not violate the AHRA in such a way as to warrant an
>injunction."
>
>--
>Michael Sims                            The Censorware Project
>                                        http://censorware.org
>He who breaks a thing to find out what it is, has left the path of wisdom.
>Or is well on the way to becoming an engineer.
>
>
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 22:37:49 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Oct. 27 column -- Halloween
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Resent-Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 23:17:25 -0700
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 22:06:53 -0800 (PST)
X-Sender: vin@dali.lvrj.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
To: vinsends@ezlink.com
From: Vin_Suprynowicz@lvrj.com (Vin Suprynowicz)
Subject: Oct. 27 column -- Halloween
Resent-From: vinsends@ezlink.com
X-Mailing-List:  archive/latest/576
X-Loop: vinsends@ezlink.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vinsends-request@ezlink.com


    FROM MOUNTAIN MEDIA
    FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE DATED OCT. 27, 1998
    THE LIBERTARIAN, By Vin Suprynowicz
    Thoughts on the occasion of the October moon

    The column for which I receive the most "repeat" requests remains my
1992 Halloween submission, "Thoughts on the occasion of the October moon."
That essay follows here, as it originally appeared:


    #  #  #

     Halloween approaches, the day when many an American parent will suit
up the little ones in black robes, matching 17th century conical hats, and
oversized warty noses, sending them off to delight the neighbors with this
impersonation of a witch, as traditionally represented from 17th century
Austrian paintings of the Hexensabbat right up through Disney's "Snow
White."

  Even the newspapers generally play along, running the results of polls
that ask Americans how many actually believe in such mythological creatures
as ghosts, trolls and witches.

  But witches are not mythological creatures, of course. They were the very
real practitioners of a religion which pre-dated Christianity in Europe,
and which had coexisted quite peaceably with the new Christian church for
more than 1,000 years, from the Council of Nicaea until the fateful year
1484 A.D., under the quite sensible rule of the Canon Episcopi, which
instructed Christian clerics through all those years that -- in cases where
sorcery or commerce with the devil was charged but could not be proven --
it was the accuser, not the accused, who was to suffer the penalty for
those crimes.

  Needless to say, this held false charges to a minimum.

  All that changed after 1484, when an ambitious but ethically challenged
Dominican friar and embezzler by the name of Heinrich Kramer managed to
convince Pope Innocent VIII to set the Holy Office of the Inquisition onto
the witches, using torture to extract confessions, authorizing anonymous
accusations without any right for the accused to face her accuser, and
granting the soon-busy witch-hunters the rights to seize and divide the
estates of the accused (who were always found guilty), an invitation to
systematic legal looting so foul that it was never allowed again in Western
history ... until our current War on Drugs, of course.

  As many as 9 million persons -- some doubtless practitioners of the Old
Craft, but many, especially in later years, just as doubtless falsely
accused -- were burned or hanged before the burning times faded away with a
kind of embarrassed shrug in the early 1700s.

  The crime of which they were accused? Worshipping a female deity, a
goddess of the earth, and her male consort, the goat-horned male god of
fertility.

  Christian clerics, themselves mostly illiterate, called this female deity
"the abomination," which has subsequently been interpreted to mean the
horned devil of Hebrew tradition. But practitioners of a fertility cult
would have had little reason to mock the late-comer Christianity by hanging
crosses upside down or reciting masses backwards. "Satanism," to the extent
that it ever existed (and I suspect more black masses were chanted on
London film sets in the 1960s and '70s than anywhere in the four centuries
preceding), is a very different thing.


    #  #  #

    Why should we care about the fate of the witches? For starters, it
appears the witches stressed not the superiority of either sex over the
other, but rather a balance between male and female principles -- an
obvious notion for early agriculturalists trying to come to a metaphorical
understanding of the germination of crops in the "mother" earth thanks to
the intervention of those primeval "male" agencies, the sun and the rain.

  But the culture which destroyed the witches was not merely
male-dominated. The history of our European ancestors of the 16th and 17th
centuries presents a spectacle of bloodthirsty intolerance, a perverse
catalogue of self-flagellation and repulsion at sexuality which found
outlet only in the frenzied drive to conquer and enslave both the natural
world and any other culture that presented itself. No matter how we may
celebrate their competitive superiority from a safe distance, this was
clearly a bunch of sick puppies.

  Was it the plagues, which quite often left the continent literally in the
hands of teenagers? Whatever the reason, using their superior technology of
sail and cannon, and helped mightily by bacteriological allies to which
they had developed at least partial immunity, the Europeans didn't merely
conquer the indigenous populations of the Americas, they ruthlessly
eradicated whole cultures, and with them any medical or other knowledge
they might have had to offer, sweeping all aside as the "spawn of the
devil."

  Meantime, European women were being stripped of their property and other
rights (many "witches," curiously, were widows of independent means), at
precisely the time when their presense in the councils of church and state
might have maintained some semblance of sanity.

  The Europeans of the time adopted little of our hypocritical modern-day
pretense of being horrified at "drug use" per se -- they happily imported
coffee, tobacco, opium, and cocaine. In fact, they forced the opium trade
on China when it proved to be the only thing for which the Chinese would
trade silver bullion.

  But while they reveled in novel forms of drunkenness, what did horrify
those brave conquerors was the use of any hallucinogenic substance as a
means to religious revelation, a superstitious dread of alternative paths
to spiritual enlightenment which still hangs on in our aforementioned and
thoroughly irrational "War on Drugs."

  (Which drug is involved in more incidents of spouse battery and
inter-family murder by a factor of millions-to-1: alcohol or LSD? Which
will get you 20 years in the federal pen, while the other now comes in
convenient "wide-mouth 12-packs"?)

  The wholesale eradication of the cultures of the Aztecs and the Incas was
justified not because of their practice of slavery and ritual slaughter --
Pizarro and Cortes would have found those familiar enough -- but because
they were found to be using peyotl, hallucinogenic mushrooms, and
ololiuhqui (a variety of morning glory seed) in their religious rituals,
sure signs of "witchcraft," and coincidentally a method of seeking direct
revelations from the gods which really delivered the goods -- hardly fair
competition for the modest little Spanish communion wafer.

  Why did the conquistadors relate such practices to the witches back home?
Because the witches, too, in a triumph of empirical science (Northern
Europe has no reliably safe natural hallucinogens), had found ways to turn
such normally deadly poisons as henbane, monkshood, and belladonna into an
externally-applied ointment which would promote religious revelation by
inducing a sensation of flying, followed by ecstatic visions.

  (The stuff worked best when applied to the mucous membranes with a smooth
wooden rod or staff -- the "witch's broomstick" of our modern Halloween.)

  This was the great evil of the witches, and the justification for
destroying millennia of the (start ital)materia medica(end ital) which they
had gathered -- the traditional folk knowledge of medicinal plants which
was largely destroyed with the Wise Women of 16th and 17th century Europe,
and which we are only painfully piecing together again today.


    #  #  #

    It's commonly held that this order of midwives and herbal healers were
a superstitious lot, rejecting the more "scientific" advances of the
academically trained doctors of their time.

  The truth is just the opposite. What could be more scientific than
carefully observing and noting the effects of medicinal herbs over a period
of generations? What could be a more superstitious pile of nonsense than
the theories of the 2nd century quack Galen, whose theory that health is
dominated by the "four humours" remained gospel for centuries, refined with
the addition of harsh purgatives and the exquisite nonsense of
blood-letting?

  So fatal was the standard practice of medicine in the centuries after the
witches were eliminated that most leading statesmen of the time -- George
Washington included -- died while being bled by doctors. (Washington woke
up with a sore throat at the age of 67, and died within 48 hours after
receiving a cathartic enema, being dosed with poisonous mercury and
antimony, and having literally half his blood -- four pints -- drained from
his body, all in keeping with the best medical advice of the day.)

  All three of Louis XVI's elder brothers were killed by the blood-letting
of physicians during youthful illnesses. The last direct heir to the
Bourbon throne was preserved only after the queen mother bundled him away
to a locked room and refused on pain of death to let any of the court
physicians have at him.

  Superstition? Ask most modern patients whether they would rather be
injected with a purified white extract, or swallow a tea made from the same
herb, and see whether there isn't a "superstitious" preference for the
power of the magic syringe or even for surgery over the remedy in its
naturally-occurring form, even when the latter offers better control of
dosage and side effects. Chew up a bunch of bug-eaten leaves? How
primitive!

  The ancient Egyptians were fighting infection with fruit molds as early
as the date of the Ebers papyrus, but thousands had to die of pneumonia,
puerperal fever and meningitis, all through the late Middle Ages and right
through the 19th century, before Fleming could get anyone to take another
look at penicillin. It was with similar reluctance -- and not until 1795,
when Napoleon seemed likely to put them all out of business unless they got
practical in a hurry -- that the established brotherhood of "scientific"
physicians finally acknowledged that the "old wives' remedy," lemon juice,
was a better cure for naval scurvy than all their acids and caustic salts
put together.


    #  #  #

    This is the tradition of ignorance, intolerance, and futility which we
honor when we dress up our children to ridicule warty old witches, or when
we protest (as parents groups in Le Mesa, Calif. and elsewhere continue to
do every year) that Roald Dahls' book "The Witches" should be banned from
school libraries because it "portrays witches as ordinary-looking women."

  Only the dimming effects of time -- and the fact that the Inquisition
pretty much got them all -- render this outrage acceptable. To find a
modern parallel, imagine the (fully appropriate) public outcry if it were
discovered that some small town in Bavaria, from which for some undisclosed
reason all the Jewish families disappeared in 1942, had since decided to
launch a new Halloween custom, in which many of the town's blonde-haired
little children were dressed up in yarmulkes and artificially large beaked
noses, and sent out to play pranks and demand loot under the guise of being
"nasty little Jews." Imagine further that the more religious local townfolk
demanded the removal of certain children's books from the local library,
because they depicted Jews as "people or ordinary human appearance."

  A healthy skepticism about many of our modern-day "witches" and some of
their New Age mumbo jumbo may be in order ... though surely it's not up to
us to choose which of their exotic notions it's "acceptable" to explore.

  But shall we extend our inherited intolerance to the many serious
researchers now trying to rediscover the healing properties of plants, to
overcome centuries of medical libel designed to convince us that
mild-mannered natural remedies which can take weeks to rebuild our
immunities are not worth our time, that the only valuable medicines are
purified (and thus patentable) toxins that kill "bad" cells in a test tube,
no matter how much damage they cause the "host organism" in the process?

  Excepting the odd mountain hamlet in Gwynedd, the Tirol, and the
Hebrides, our direct links to the Wise Women of old are probably lost for
good. But rediscovering their worldview, a beneficent vision of humankind
inextricably balanced in nature's mandala, is a journey well worth
beginning anew -- perhaps even on the night of the Samhain moon.


    #  #  #

Vin Suprynowicz is the assistant editorial page editor of the Las Vegas
Review-Journal. Readers may contact him via e-mail at vin@lvrj.com. The web
sites for the Suprynowicz column are at
http://www.infomagic.com/liberty/vinyard.htm, and
http://www.nguworld.com/vindex/. Watch for Vin's book, "Send in the Waco
Killers," coming from Huntington Press in February, 1999. The column is
syndicated in the United States and Canada via Mountain Media Syndications,
P.O. Box 4422, Las Vegas Nev. 89127.

***



Vin Suprynowicz,   vin@lvrj.com

The evils of tyranny are rarely seen but by him who resists it. -- John
Hay, 1872

The most difficult struggle of all is the one within ourselves. Let us not
get accustomed and adjusted to these conditions. The one who adjusts ceases
to discriminate between good and evil.  He becomes a slave in body and
soul. Whatever may happen to you, remember always: Don't adjust! Revolt
against the reality! -- Mordechai Anielewicz, Warsaw, 1943

* * *

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 23:13:02 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Oct. 29 column -- twilight of an era
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Resent-Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 23:21:30 -0700
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 22:13:20 -0800 (PST)
X-Sender: vin@dali.lvrj.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
To: vinsends@ezlink.com
From: Vin_Suprynowicz@lvrj.com (Vin Suprynowicz)
Subject: Oct. 29 column -- twilight of an era
Resent-From: vinsends@ezlink.com
X-Mailing-List:  archive/latest/578
X-Loop: vinsends@ezlink.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vinsends-request@ezlink.com


    FROM MOUNTAIN MEDIA
    FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE DATED OCT. 29, 1998
    THE LIBERTARIAN, By Vin Suprynowicz
    Twilight of the Gods

    We seem to be entering the twilight of an era.

 Changes in our society -- consider the erosion of personal liberties, and
even the notion that sticking up for our personal liberties is a good thing
("He wouldn't give his Social Security number when he tried to register to
vote? He owned an unregistered firearm? He wouldn't volunteer any
information on his tax form? Then he deserved whatever happened to him. I'm
sorry they burned up the wife and baby, too, but he brought it on himself")
-- have been occurring incrementally over the past 86 years. Hence, the
popular notion that future change will continue to be equally gradual.

  Even "legitimate" Libertarian Party political candidates now patiently
explain to me that since the current police/welfare state took 60 to 90
years to put in place, there's no sense alarming anyone by shouting radical
ideas about legalizing heroin or machine guns. No, no. These "modern"
Libertarians -- respectable middle-aged entrepreneurs in respectable coats
and striped ties  -- patiently explain that they only wish to move us back
toward slightly less government, slightly lower taxes, and the restoration
of a few personal liberties at a time. Nothing for anyone to get frightened
about.

  The problem is, neither human nor geologic history seem to bear out this
notion of a pendulum swinging steadily back and forth. The era of the
swamp-dwelling dinosaurs seems to have continued for hundreds of thousands
of years without much change. But ice core samples and ocean sediments now
indicate the freeze that killed them may have taken as few as five years.

  Social and political change in France was pretty gradual from 1480 to
1780. Would one thus have been safe in assuming that things wouldn't be
likely to change much from 1780 and 1795? A whole lot of folks went to the
guillotine based on that assumption.

  Our ability to sense the imminent end of an era is seriously hampered by
a part of human nature modern psychiatry calls "denial." The loss of
familiar things -- even if we know in our hearts they are rotten -- is
frightening. Thus, we tend to hope the signs are wrong, and to cling to
what is familiar.

  Is this another one of these rants about how the inability of our
computers to process the date "2000" is going to cause an instant reversion
to the Stone Age?

  No -- though such computer malfunctions and shutdowns certainly will
occur, creating pockets of panic and accelerated uncertainty about just how
reliable our "foolproof" government and economic "systems" really are.

  But the number of things that are rotten in America -- and thus in
"Western civilization" -- has simply grown too large. And as each one
fails, it will help to pull down the next. Large dams do not develop small
leaks.

  We could talk about the imminent collapse of the largest, most
profligate, most unproductive and socially poisonous make-work social
engineering scheme ever devised, the mandatory government youth propaganda
camps (you may call them "public schools.") When the cost of things that
don't work exceeds what people can pay, they just walk away. That's why the
stone temples of the Maya were abandoned long before Cortez showed up, and
why most of the nuclear submarines of the Russian Navy now sit rusting at
their piers. There was never any popular vote to "shut down the Soviet
Navy." Everyone just went home.

  We could talk about the inevitable failure of the little Dutch boy
sticking his fingers in the financial dikes of Mexico, Russia, Indonesia,
Malaysia, Thailand, and Brazil -- the International Monetary Fund, the
failure of which is likely to soon bring down another 20th century
institution which we have come to assume could never fail, the vast
leveraged Ponzi scheme known as "government chartered fractional reserve
banking."

  (Imagine an evil wizard made the stock market disappear, along with your
stockbroker and your bank. For awhile, you might wonder what you would live
on in your "retirement." Then it would dawn on you: What "retirement"?
"Retirement" at a fixed age was a notion introduced by the 19th century
socialists, who believed there was a fixed number of jobs in the world
(duh), and that the only way to guarantee work to the young was therefore
to "pension off" the oldsters. "Retirement" is a completely artificial
invention.)

  I could talk about the schools or the banks, scrambling around insisting
it's not their fault; it's our fault for being too "greedy" to hand them
ever-larger "bailouts."

  But I won't. Instead, since it's election time, I will talk about why the
great experiment called "participatory democracy" is failing.

  Next time -- interviews with virtually every candidate in Southern Nevada
produced five or six outstanding prospects this year: Why voting for them
isn't likely to make a bit of difference.


Vin Suprynowicz is the assistant editorial page editor of the Las Vegas
Review-Journal. Readers may contact him via e-mail at vin@lvrj.com. The web
sites for the Suprynowicz column are at
http://www.infomagic.com/liberty/vinyard.htm, and
http://www.nguworld.com/vindex/. The column is syndicated in the United
States and Canada via Mountain Media Syndications, P.O. Box 4422, Las Vegas
Nev. 89127.

***



Vin Suprynowicz,   vin@lvrj.com

The evils of tyranny are rarely seen but by him who resists it. -- John
Hay, 1872

The most difficult struggle of all is the one within ourselves. Let us not
get accustomed and adjusted to these conditions. The one who adjusts ceases
to discriminate between good and evil.  He becomes a slave in body and
soul. Whatever may happen to you, remember always: Don't adjust! Revolt
against the reality! -- Mordechai Anielewicz, Warsaw, 1943

* * *

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 22:48:28 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Oct. 30 column -- playing out the clock
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Resent-Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 23:24:55 -0700
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 22:16:50 -0800 (PST)
X-Sender: vin@dali.lvrj.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
To: vinsends@ezlink.com
From: Vin_Suprynowicz@lvrj.com (Vin Suprynowicz)
Subject: Oct. 30 column -- playing out the clock
Resent-From: vinsends@ezlink.com
X-Mailing-List:  archive/latest/579
X-Loop: vinsends@ezlink.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vinsends-request@ezlink.com


    FROM MOUNTAIN MEDIA
    FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE DATED OCT. 30, 1998
    THE LIBERTARIAN, By Vin Suprynowicz
    Gamely playing out the clock in a hopeless contest


    Every even-numbered year, literally scores of candidates come trooping
through the offices of the newspaper where I work, seeking our endorsement
for every office from constable or justice of the peace, to governor or
U.S. senator.

  Playing out the game by the established rules, we cross-question them on
their little memorized spiels about how they "respect the Second Amendment"
and "want to make government more efficient and more responsive to the
people's needs."

  By and large, those candidates who start out insisting they "respect the
Second Amendment" will quickly agree with any new hare-brained scheme you
can propose to register or restrict where folks can carry guns, or to ban
people from owning "really dangerous" semi-automatic weapons or concealable
handguns, for which "obviously no one can have a legitimate use."

  (Uzis seem to be a favorite weapon for which "no one can have a
legitimate use" this year. The only ones available in local gun shops are
semi-autos, of course -- essentially a 9mm handgun with a shoulder stock.)

  Naturally, those who "want to make government more efficient" can rarely
name a single government office or program they'd close.

  But every year, a few candidates show up who actually understand a little
economics, have read the Constitution, and volunteer that the purpose of
government is to protect individual rights.

  Pinching ourselves and wondering how they "slipped through," every year
we celebrate these few brave souls in our editorial pages. Many people vote
for them. And then what happens? Taxes go up, more laws are passed,
government grows more intrusive, and our rights are eroded faster than
ever.

  How come?

  Well, of course, not all the candidates we endorse get elected. A certain
number of incumbent redistributionists are "automatically" returned by the
voters, no matter what we say or do.

  Fine: A newspaper has no dictatorial powers, nor should it.

  But what's more discouraging is how little difference these
well-intentioned people seem to make even if they do get elected to the
state legislature, or the Congress, or wherever they're headed.

  I've been in the newspaper business for 25 years. Call me a cynic -- I'll
respond that it's simply an objective observation: No matter who we elect,
it doesn't matter any more. Government is a machine that crunches anyone
you send into it into a cog or gear of the required shape and size to keep
the machine running and growing.

  Why are fewer and fewer folks registering to vote, or showing up at the
polls? Vote for the most radical of Libertarians, he will get 4 percent of
the vote, and nothing will change. They still won't let him into the TV
debates next year, and no corporation will hand him the protection money
which we still daintily call "campaign contributions."

  Vote for (start ital)and elect(end ital) the most radical-sounding "less
government" Republican you can find, and the best result will be a
government that grows at the rate of 7 percent next year, instead of 8
percent. You will still have to get fingerprinted to obtain your new
driver's license, there will still be armed soldiers at the airports
strip-searching people "to prevent terrorism and drug-running" (starting
next year), and your take-home pay will still be a smaller percentage of
your gross earnings next year than it was last year.

  Oh, these things are never accomplished overnight, say the eternal
optimists. Besides, these are all just a bunch of cynical generalities.

  OK: Let's get specific. in my next column, I will present you with five
or six races in which the Las Vegas Review-Journal -- largest newspaper in
Nevada -- has made loud, strident, forceful endorsements in Election '98.
The five or six candidates the newspaper endorsed may astound you with just
how dedicated to personal liberties and limited government they sound,
given that they are all "electable" (that is to say -- from one of the
"major parties.")

  But if each voter could personally interview every candidate on his or
her Nov. 3 ballot for half-an-hour apiece, not allowing them to get away
with any slick double-talk, I daresay you too could find and vote for five
or six "viable" candidates in your own town and state who sound just as
"libertarian."

  Then you too could have the experience of seeing them go to the capital
and vote for new tax hikes and more gun control laws, vote to send away
harmless minority kids for even longer terms in the pen for "getting high"
on harmless vegetable extracts, authorize more restrictions of our economic
freedom and invasions of our privacy, and then give you a look of shock
when you tell them you're disappointed.

  "But that bill had some good stuff in it!" they will insist. "No bill is
perfect. You always have to compromise on something to get things done. We
had to make our gun licensing rules just a little stricter, in the hopes
our permits will now be recognized by other states. And as for the
fingerprinting for the new driver's license, most people favor that, since
it will make it much harder for someone else to cash your checks if they're
stolen."

  Next time: five excellent and "viable" candidates, and why voting for
them probably won't make a bit of difference at all.


Vin Suprynowicz is the assistant editorial page editor of the Las Vegas
Review-Journal. Readers may contact him via e-mail at vin@lvrj.com.

***




Vin Suprynowicz,   vin@lvrj.com

The evils of tyranny are rarely seen but by him who resists it. -- John
Hay, 1872

The most difficult struggle of all is the one within ourselves. Let us not
get accustomed and adjusted to these conditions. The one who adjusts ceases
to discriminate between good and evil.  He becomes a slave in body and
soul. Whatever may happen to you, remember always: Don't adjust! Revolt
against the reality! -- Mordechai Anielewicz, Warsaw, 1943

* * *

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 22:50:06 +0800
To: cryptography@c2.net
Subject: SNET: [FP] Microsoft puts smart card on table
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


X-Sender: st005940@brandywine.otago.ac.nz
Mime-Version: 1.0
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 16:08:19 +1300
To: snetnews@world.std.com
From: "ScanThisNews"  (by way of
 jeremy.compton@stonebow.otago.ac.nz (Jeremy Compton))
Subject: SNET: [FP] Microsoft puts smart card on table
Sender: snetnews-approval@world.std.com
Precedence: list
Reply-To: snetnews@world.std.com


->  SNETNEWS  Mailing List

======================================================================
SCAN THIS NEWS
10/26/98


Microsoft puts smart card on table

http://www.news.com/News/Item/0%2C4%2C27923%2C00.html?dd.ne.tx.fs6.1026

By Tim Clark
Staff Writer, CNET News.com
October 26, 1998

Update: Microsoft tomorrow will announce an extension of its Windows
operating system for smart cards, a company spokesman said today.

Smart cards, which have very limited memory and processing power, are about
the size of a credit card and embedded with a computer chip. The technology
is used for storing data on mobile phones, banking online, and paying for
phone calls and public transit fares.

Microsoft vice president Paul Maritz is scheduled to announce the operating
system initiative tomorrow at Cartes 98, a conference on smart card
technology in Paris.

A new system from Microsoft could bring more acceptance of smart cards in
the United States. Smart cards have been used in Europe, which holds more
than 80 percent of the market, but have been slow to progress in America, at
least in part beacuse of the lack of a standard operating system.

Microsoft is bidding to enter that arena, but Sun Microsystems is already
active in that space with its JavaCard specification. In addition, Mondex,
an e-cash company controlled by MasterCard has its MultOS system designed so
cards with different operating systems can work together.

The company's interest in smart cards parallels its strategy with Windows
CE, a stripped-down version of its PC operating system for consumer
electronics devices. In April, Microsoft announced a version of Windows CE
for automobiles, gas pumps, industrial controllers, and other uses.

The smart-card initiative seeks to go after even smaller, cheaper
devices--particularly when rival Sun is targeting the same business. The
Microsoft spokesman said card developers could use existing Windows tools to
work with their software.

The annual Paris show is a major showcase for the smart card industry.
Schlumberger, a major French manufacturer of smart cards, today unveiled new
software for its cards that transforms a smart card into a security device
to identify its holder.

Many PC makers have said they will produce machines with smart-card readers
built in, a capability that Microsoft has provided in its desktop PC
operating systems. Microsoft has a certification and logo program that
indicates smart card systems work with Windows NT.

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--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 22:42:30 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Moore is Moore
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Delivered-To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
X-Sender: believer@telepath.com
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 05:38:30 -0600
To: believer@telepath.com
From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Atomic Chip
Mime-Version: 1.0
Sender: owner-ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
Precedence: list
Reply-To: believer@telepath.com

 Tuesday 27 Oct, 1998

   NOW - THE ATOMIC CHIP

     Scientists at the Technical University of Denmark said today they have
created an atom-sized computer chip, in which a single hydrogen atom
jumping to and fro generates a binary code. And the technique operates at
room temperatures. It means a million CDs could fit onto one disc. But it
is not expected to become commercial for some years. The university's
Microelectronics Centre, which carried out the research, is at
http://www.mic.dtu.dk



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or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email@address
****************************************************
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****************************************************

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 22:41:50 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Look Who's Minding The Store
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Delivered-To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 05:13:01 -0500 (EST)
To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
From: softwar@us.net (CharlesSmith)
Subject: IP: Look Who's Minding The Store
Sender: owner-ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
Precedence: list
Reply-To: softwar@us.net (CharlesSmith)

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/smith/981027_cs_look_whos_mindi.shtml

William Reinsch is the Under Secretary for Export Administration
(BXA) from the U.S. Commerce Department.  Mr. Reinsch has been
with the Commerce Department since 1994, starting his service
under Ron Brown.  As head of BXA, Reinsch is charged with
administering and enforcing American high-tech export control
policies and anti-boycott laws.

Reinsch controls billions of dollars in American technology
exports from his position at BXA.  For example, Reinsch controls
high-speed computers, advanced secure communications systems and
encryption software.  According to the Commerce Department,
Reinsch's job also includes helping "Russia and other newly
emerging nations develop effective export controls systems and
convert their defense industries to civilian production."

Interestingly, Mr. Reinsch has zero experience in either
technical matters or military affairs.  Reinsch's only
qualification is that he was an aide to Senator Rockefeller and
former Senator Heniz.  This is quite unusual for a person
charged with such an export job involving the international
"defense" industry.

According to the Commerce Department, Reinsch's only business
experience consists of "President of the Saint Mark Elderly
Housing Corporation."  It is certain that Reinsch's business
experience running rental housing for the aged has little
application toward the export of advanced defense related
equipment to Russia and China such as super-computers.  Yet,
during Mr. Reinsch's tenure a wide range of advanced technology
has been shipped outright to China, India and Russia.

I once had the opportunity to ask Mr. Reinsch about one specific
transfer he worked on in 1995 for Loral.  According to Commerce
documentation, Mr. Reinsch exchanged a series of highly
classified memos with Commerce lawyer Bettie Baca on the export
of Loral GLOBALSTAR satellites to be launched by the Russians.
President Clinton signed the waiver for Loral to launch from the
former Soviet Union in July 1996.  Clinton's waiver included the
transfer of encrypted telemetry control systems to China for the
GLOBALSTAR satellites.

I cornered Bill Reinsch in April 1998 at the Rayburn
Congressional office building after a conference on President
Clinton's encryption policy.  At first, Mr. Reinsch claimed he
did not author the documents on Loral satellite exports.  I then
presented an official list of items from the U.S. Commerce
Department that showed he indeed did author the 1995 Loral
memos.  At this point Reinsch's face went pale and he ran from
the room.

I gave chase, demanding answers with tape recorder in hand,
attracting the attention of several dozen Congressional staffers
and a select few from the press as witnesses.  Reinsch, however,
was faster.  He pushed past the crowded entrance and dashed down
the Congressional hallway, running in full stride in his
three-piece suit.  Since then, Mr. Reinsch has refused all
requests for an interview.

Until recently, Reinsch controlled commercial satellite exports.
President Clinton passed the authority to control satellite
exports to the Commerce Department by executive order in 1996.
Republican legislation signed by President Clinton in October
1998 puts that authority back to the State Department and the
Defense Department.

Another example of Mr. Reinsch and his experience with the
defense industry through elderly housing is the export of high
speed computers to Russian and Chinese nuclear weapons labs.  In
1995 Bill Reinsch wrote a memo to Ron Brown detailing a secret
meeting with a group of computer CEOs, consisting of Apple,
AT&T, Compaq, Cray, Silicon Graphics, Digital Equipment
Corporation, Tandem, Sun and Unisys.  The group is called the
CSPP or Computer Systems Policy Project.

CSPP computer executives have backed Clinton since 1992 with big
bucks.  For example, Apple's chairman John Schully is a major
donor to the Clinton campaigns and a long time supporter.

In 1995 the CSPP lobby group was led by Ken Kay, an employee of
Tony Podesta, the brother of White House advisor John Podesta.
John Podesta is now Clinton's Chief of Staff.  In 1995, John
Podesta worked at the White House running encryption and super
computer policy.  During the same period of time, the CSPP and
Clinton officials began a series of classified briefings on
encryption and super computer export policy.

In 1995 IBM and Silicon Graphics sold super-computers directly
to Russian Atomic weapon labs.  IBM has since been fined $8.5
million on the $7 million sale.  In fact, Commerce spokesman
Eugene Cotilli pointed out in October 1998 that the Commerce
Department investigation led to the conviction.

Of course, Commerce did not start investigating until the
Russian minister in charge of MINATOM (Ministry of Atomics)
announced publicly the U.S. computers would be used for nuclear
weapons research.  Cotilli also did not deny that there is NO
investigation of CSPP member Silicon Graphics and their sale of
four super computers to Russian nuclear engineers at the
Chelyabinsk-70 weapons lab in the fall of 1996.  Thus, while IBM
is convicted - Clinton supporter and Podesta associate client
Silicon Graphics remains uninvestigated.

In 1998, White House Special Counsel to the President Michael B.
Waitzkin wrote "In January 1997, Mr. Podesta resigned his
part-time position at Podesta Associates and returned to the
White House as Deputy Chief of Staff.  Mr. Podesta was requested
by Senior Administration Officials to undertake certain
responsibilities with respect to encryption policy.  He did not,
however, undertake these responsibilities until he received
specific approval from the White House Counsel's Office with
respect to his involvement in these matters."

Thus, Mr. Podesta sought and obtained approval for his conflict
of interest in 1997.  Whether John and Tony Podesta shared a
conflict of interest in 1995 has so far remained unresolved but
not uninvestigated.  House investigators in the Cox/Dix
committee and on the House National Security Committee have
sought information on the CSPP and John Podesta.  Mr. John
Podesta refuses to be interviewed.

The fact is, Podesta Associate employee Ken Kay made thousands
of dollars in donations to the DNC in 1994 and 1995.  Yet,
according to CSPP lawyer C. Boyden Gray, Ken Kay only donated
$2,500 of which $1,250 was returned by the DNC in the form of a
painting.  According to official Federal Election Commission
records, none of Mr. Kay's donations totaled to $2,500 or
$1,250.  Mr. Kay also will not respond to interview requests.

The CSPP is, in part, still funded by the taxpayer.  The CSPP is
now helping the Clinton administration design the next
generation internet and getting paid to do it.  Obviously, many
of the CSPP members will benefit financially as each new
Internet contract is offered and they sell more equipment.

In 1998 CSPP lawyer C. Boyden Gray claimed that official Clinton
secret meetings began in November 1995.  Reinsch, however,
clearly wrote to Ron Brown about an earlier secret meeting in
June of 1995, when Tony Podesta employed Ken Kay and John
Podesta was charged with computer oversight policy.

The materials given to CSPP members at the White House on
encryption are considered so sensitive that they have no public
classification level such as secret or top secret.  The true
secrets of Clinton's encryption policy involve hidden back doors
and exploitable features built into computer products.  The
secrets given to CSPP members involved classified means of
electronic surveillance to be built inside domestic products by
the manufacturers.

The Clinton administration offered billions of tax dollars as
incentive to bug every fax, phone and computer built.  Clinton
offered military chip designs backed by decades of cold war
research.  The CSPP was given access to military algorithms and
taxpayer funded programs as incentives to adopt a secret
"back-door" concept for computers and communications.  William
Reinsch, John Podesta, Ken Kay and the DNC all refuse to comment
on Bill Clinton's secret project to bug America and the world.

===================================================================

William Reinsch & CSPP Source Document index -

http://www.softwar.net/reinsch.html

================================================================
1 if by land, 2 if by sea.  Paul Revere - encryption 1775
Charles R. Smith
SOFTWAR         http://www.softwar.net      softwar@softwar.net
Pcyphered SIGNATURE:
3B7CB41BBBE190B12082FA2032662C126449AADEFF70F107EFB810A50A8E6892
2EFAA5B363ABEB33D85F23BCBE60C4416359D229F36E4703348090FDC45794FC
7C2CC1D8D72F6184
================================================================
SOFTWAR EMAIL NEWSLETTER                            10/27/1998
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--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mok-Kong Shen 
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 18:06:18 +0800
To: David Honig 
Subject: Re: PRNGs and testers.
In-Reply-To: <19981021151835.A26267@krdl.org.sg>
Message-ID: <36359051.574632A8@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



David Honig wrote:
> 
> At 09:47 AM 10/26/98 +0100, Mok-Kong Shen wrote:

> >What if some PRNGs pass Maurer's test?

> I'd find it surprising if any did, given what I described.

I believe that there are quite a number. If I am allowed to cite 
my own stuff, a PRNG of my design did pass Maurer's test. See

     http://www.stud.uni-muenchen.de/~mok-kong.shen/#paper1
and
     http://www.stud.uni-muenchen.de/~mok-kong.shen/#paper9

M. K. Shen




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: dporter@denova.com (D. Porter)
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 01:44:23 +0800
To: vin@shore.net (Vin McLellan)
Subject: Re: files (was: Re: dbts, etc.)
Message-ID: <199810271107.39975@denova.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Steve Bellovin (smb@research.att.com) wrote...

 >  . . . to trace the the perturbations caused to the system. . .
 > The more anonymity, and the more privacy cut-outs, the
 > harder this is. . .
 > To be sure, one can assert that the philosophical
 > gains -- privacy, libertarianism, what have you -- are
 > sufficiently important that this price is worth paying. . .

Steve, as you point out most of us are driven primarily by practical
concerns. This is a philosophy: pragmatism. Beyond mind exercise,
philosophy is valuable exactly to the extent it is practical.

DBS increases freedom. Increased freedom is practical because it reduces
risks -- of confiscation, imprisonment, and death -- and because it
usually increases efficiency. All of these pragmatic considerations seem
much more important than the ease of maintenance, at least to me.

Doug




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Joel O'Connor" 
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 03:53:39 +0800
To: Chip Mefford 
Subject: Re: your mail
Message-ID: <19981027190715.184.rocketmail@send101.yahoomail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I traveled by train all the way to Florida from Rhode Island once.  24
hours straight it took man and I swore I would never do it again. 
40-50 people per car and basically one bathroom per car.  Come morning
time man, the lines for the bathrooms stretched out of the cars. 
Screw that, I could have flown and made it in 3 hours. Plus it's
easier for the gov't to stop trains and search them, I'd rather go
with the flight.




---Chip Mefford  wrote:
>
> 
> 
> Where possible, 
> 
> fuk a bunch of airlines anyway.
> 
> Travel by train is a lot more enjoyable, relaxing, fun.
> Folks that travel by train could fly, but would
> preferr to enjoy the ride, cause it ain't no cheaper, 
> 
> except, !!
> 
> you can pay with cash and show no id and go
> where you would like in the lower 48.
> 
> anonymously.
> 
> On Tue, 27 Oct 1998, Anonymous wrote:
> 
> > At 02:43 PM 10/26/98 -0400, Robert A. Costner wrote:
> > >At 01:15 PM 10/26/98 -0500, Duncan Frissell wrote:
> > >>9.  "I do not posses any government-issued photo ID and thus
cannot travel
> > >>to the location stated in the subpoena. 
> > >
> > >ROTFLMAO...
> > >
> > >This last one is too funny to not use.  I don't have a subpoena,
but I can
> > >just see myself writing back explaining this and requesting
assistance with
> > >a plane flight to solve this problem.
> > 
> > Actually you don't need state id to fly, legally.  But the
airlines will
> > hassle you and not put your bags aboard til you are.  There
> > are references on the net to flying without state id.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >   
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 

==
Ogre bounces like sonar. . .Peace.
                  Ogre

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Joel O'Connor" 
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 04:15:49 +0800
To: Chip Mefford 
Subject: Re: your mail
Message-ID: <19981027193249.14523.rocketmail@send104.yahoomail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



That's cool man, I see your point.  Guess I shouldn't knock it when
I've only had one experience.  It's true, I got on the train quicker
than I've ever gotten on a flight and didn't face any harrassment. 
Actually, I faced more harrassment from my Gestapo math teacher in
high school trying to board a bus than getting on the train.  He
looked at me and told me I was trouble and searched every crevice of
my bag, personal being and space.  "But doctor, both your hands on my
shoulders. . ."you get the point and that's exactly what's happening
to us each and every day.  




---Chip Mefford  wrote:
>
> 
> 
> I've taken that same route, except up 
> to no. Vermont rather than RI,
> 
> I travelled anonymously, for an extra 50 bux, 
> I had my own little private cabin, I was never
> searched, my bags were never xrayed by incompetent
> androids, was able to find company from the 
> hordes that you describe to sit with me in my
> lil cabin and spend some time (wink wink, nudge
> nudge) and so forth. 
> 
> yeah, an entire day spent with a whole pile of 
> folks can really be a horrible drag, and I'm
> told that travelling on the weekends thats
> what you can expect. 
> 
> But, shuffling in and out of Polizei Central, 
> subjecting myself to xrays and potential 
> cavity searches, showing ID to every bone
> head that demands it, just seems a little
> too kyrstalnachtish for my taste, I don't care
> if I EVER fly again. 
> 
> Its easier, less hassle, more anonymous to
> travel by train than it is to drive, or
> for that matter, walk.
> 
> yes, its VERY easy for the SS
> to stop and search a train, but the plane 
> is a forgone situation. By entering an
> airport, you've already consented to be
> stripped of nearly every right you thought
> you may have had.
> 
> I had an experience like you describe travelling
> from Atlanta to DC by bus once when a young-un. 
> I too, swore I'd never do it again, and I didn't,
> not till I mustered out of the military and they
> stuck me on a 10 hr busride to the nearest
> depot to go home, and yes, I still hated it.
> 
> to each his own, 
> 
> take care
> 
> chipper
> 
> On Tue, 27 Oct 1998, Joel O'Connor wrote:
> 
> > I traveled by train all the way to Florida from Rhode Island once.
 24
> > hours straight it took man and I swore I would never do it again. 
> > 40-50 people per car and basically one bathroom per car.  Come
morning
> > time man, the lines for the bathrooms stretched out of the cars. 
> > Screw that, I could have flown and made it in 3 hours. Plus it's
> > easier for the gov't to stop trains and search them, I'd rather go
> > with the flight.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ---Chip Mefford  wrote:
> > >
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Where possible, 
> > > 
> > > fuk a bunch of airlines anyway.
> > > 
> > > Travel by train is a lot more enjoyable, relaxing, fun.
> > > Folks that travel by train could fly, but would
> > > preferr to enjoy the ride, cause it ain't no cheaper, 
> > > 
> > > except, !!
> > > 
> > > you can pay with cash and show no id and go
> > > where you would like in the lower 48.
> > > 
> > > anonymously.
> > > 
> > > On Tue, 27 Oct 1998, Anonymous wrote:
> > > 
> > > > At 02:43 PM 10/26/98 -0400, Robert A. Costner wrote:
> > > > >At 01:15 PM 10/26/98 -0500, Duncan Frissell wrote:
> > > > >>9.  "I do not posses any government-issued photo ID and thus
> > cannot travel
> > > > >>to the location stated in the subpoena. 
> > > > >
> > > > >ROTFLMAO...
> > > > >
> > > > >This last one is too funny to not use.  I don't have a
subpoena,
> > but I can
> > > > >just see myself writing back explaining this and requesting
> > assistance with
> > > > >a plane flight to solve this problem.
> > > > 
> > > > Actually you don't need state id to fly, legally.  But the
> > airlines will
> > > > hassle you and not put your bags aboard til you are.  There
> > > > are references on the net to flying without state id.
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > >   
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > ==
> > Ogre bounces like sonar. . .Peace.
> >                   Ogre
> > 
> > _________________________________________________________
> > DO YOU YAHOO!?
> > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
> > 
> 
> 

==
Ogre bounces like sonar. . .Peace.
                  Ogre

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Duncan Frissell 
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 04:08:36 +0800
To: "Robert A. Costner" 
Message-ID: <4.0.2.19981027112335.03c0c840@panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 02:43 PM 10/26/98 -0400, Robert A. Costner wrote:
>At 01:15 PM 10/26/98 -0500, Duncan Frissell wrote:
>>9.  "I do not posses any government-issued photo ID and thus cannot travel
>>to the location stated in the subpoena. 
>
>ROTFLMAO...
>
>This last one is too funny to not use.  I don't have a subpoena, but I can
>just see myself writing back explaining this and requesting assistance with
>a plane flight to solve this problem.


I was glad I thought that one up yesterday.  It can be used in all sorts of
cases from future conscription notices to private travel demands that one
wishes to avoid.  

Note that short of arrest, it is difficult for anyone else to force you to
have a government issued photo ID in your possession.  You can take all
your stuff and Fedex it to your Swiss lawyer (or some friend) telling him
to not give it to you for some period of time.  You can burn your ID, throw
it away, and not apply for replacements.  There currently exists no means
of applying for ID on your behalf if you don't do it (save for kids and
those in custody).  

The beauty is that the authorities have created this requirement and it can
be used against them.  Previous techniques such as claiming lack of money
can be satisfied with government travel tickets but ID requirements will be
a tougher nut to crack.  Maybe they'll tell you to take Amtrak or the Grey
Dog.

DCF   




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 05:15:34 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: MIB Subponeas
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19981026144314.038c6020@rboc.net>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 8:36 AM -0800 10/27/98, Duncan Frissell wrote:

>The beauty is that the authorities have created this requirement and it can
>be used against them.  Previous techniques such as claiming lack of money
>can be satisfied with government travel tickets but ID requirements will be
>a tougher nut to crack.  Maybe they'll tell you to take Amtrak or the Grey
>Dog.

Here on the West Coast, they could perhaps suggest one take the Green
Tortoise, a hippie-type bus that runs up and down the coast.

However, one might then set off the drug-sniffing detectors/dogs at the
courthouse.

Duncan gave us an interesting list, but I suspect at least half of them
would result in the judge saying, "Fine. Think about in your cell. I find
you in contempt."

I have a couple of questions about the subpoena process, though:

* Is travel paid for? How?  By spending hours completing forms in
quadruplicate, or do they just cut a check for some per diem sort of
payment?

* What if one has pressing engagements? (Travel out of the country, an
anniversary party, washing the dog?)

* What if one shows up with no records and claims not to have them?

* What about lawyer expenses? I know the line about "If you cannot afford
one, one will be appointed for you," but I've never understood what test of
"afford" is being used. If called before a grand jury, will they pay for a
lawyer? (E.g., if I decide I can't "afford" to pay some shyster to
interpret their legalese into ordinary English.)  (I asssume there is some
nonsense about indigence, but can they force someone to prove he has no
money? What if he money, but he needs that $5000 for school tuition more
than he needs to give it to Johnny Cockroach for a day's worth of
shystering?)

More soberly, this kind of subpoena could well nuke the Cypherpunks list,
even the distributed node instance. If Igor Chudov, Lance Cottrell, and Jim
Choate all have to fly to Seattle and face scrutiny, implied threats, and
possible jail time for failing to jump when the Feds say jump, they may
decide to stop acting as Fed magnets.

Oh, and what if one shows up at the Federal Courthouse without any I.D.? As
there are no mandatory I.D. laws, what can they do? (I had planned to test
this one the last time I almost got called for jury duty. My planned retort
was to be, "But I'm not driving a car here in the courthouse, so why would
I need a driver's license? And, last I checked, this is still the United
States, so why would I need a passport?")

"I'm Tim May, and you can believe it or not. Maybe I'm a bum hired by Tim
for a bottle of Ripple, maybe I'm some other Tim, maybe I'm an astrally
projected Tim. Take your pick."


--Tim May

Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash.
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Joel O'Connor" 
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 05:33:55 +0800
To: xasper8d@lobo.net
Subject: Re: Airline ID Checking (was: RE: your mail)
Message-ID: <19981027204352.13039.rocketmail@send103.yahoomail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Who knows for sure anymore.  Because of the "Anti-Terrorism" bill, it
is required that security be beafed up.  When they scan the ID, it is
to check against their records that you are who you say you are. . .so
they say.  In actuality, they are tracing movements of people, so if
the shit comes down, they will know where everyone is, no matter where
you flew to.  Even with trains, all's it will take is one bomb and you
better believe security will be pumped up as high as it is with
airlines.  Who knows anymore, there's so much going on at every
spectrum of this globe that the probability of keeping up with a minor
fraction is hard enough.  The gov't control's all major transportation
routes, which control's movement and where everyone is at all times. 
Soon, there will be no where to run to.




---X  wrote:
>
> Does anyone know what the airlines do with the info they collect off
the ID?
> Are they just noting whether the names match, or is it more sinister?
> 
> When I was below legal drinking age (21 in my state) I would drive
up to the
> window (how barbaric!  liquor sales to guys in cars!) and give the
> sub-moronic guy my REAL ID under the assumption that:  he expects it
to say
> something that proves I am over age, or else why would I be handing
it to
> him? [nicely enough, this shifts all of the risk of the transaction
to him,
> should it go wrong.]
> 
> Similarly, if you booked a flight under the name Nevah Umind, when
you hand
> over a piece of ID, they look to see it says Nevah Umind (unless, of
course,
> your name happens to be Nevah Umind) and that's all they want, right?
> 
> And if we all booked flights under the same name, then wouldn't that
throw
> 'em WAY off?  Pick a name, DON'T scan your license in, DON'T edit
it, DON'T
> laminate it, and (for pete's sake!) DON'T use that name.  Their
querying
> will tell them, "I have a match, he's okay" (These are not the
droids you
> are looking for, eh!) and away you go!
> 
> X
> 
> 
> ~> -----Original Message-----
> ~> From: owner-cypherpunks@minder.net
> ~> [mailto:owner-cypherpunks@minder.net]On Behalf Of Joel O'Connor
> ~> I traveled by train all the way to Florida from Rhode Island
once.  24
> ~> hours straight it took man and I swore I would never do it again.
> ~> 40-50 people per car and basically one bathroom per car.  Come
morning
> ~> time man, the lines for the bathrooms stretched out of the cars.
> ~> Screw that, I could have flown and made it in 3 hours. Plus it's
> ~> easier for the gov't to stop trains and search them, I'd rather go
> ~> with the flight.
> ~>
> 
> 

==
Ogre bounces like sonar. . .Peace.
                  Ogre

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Jean-Francois Avon" 
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 02:15:45 +0800
To: "D. Porter" 
Subject: Re: files (was: Re: dbts, etc.)
Message-ID: <199810271744.MAA12393@cti06.citenet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




My 1.43 US cents (hey, two canadian cents aren't worth much nowadays!)

On 27 Oct 98 10:52:00, D. Porter wrote:

>Steve, as you point out most of us are driven primarily by practical
>concerns. This is a philosophy: pragmatism. Beyond mind exercise,
>philosophy is valuable exactly to the extent it is practical.

Pragmatism, as far as philosophy structure is concerned,  is opportunistic in 
the sense that it gets a free ride on other's failures to come up with basic 
premises that are compatible with reality...


>DBS increases freedom. Increased freedom is practical because it reduces
>risks -- of confiscation, imprisonment, and death -- and because it
>usually increases efficiency. All of these pragmatic considerations seem
>much more important than the ease of maintenance, at least to me.

Well, this is a point not shared at all by the collectivistic-oriented 
philosophies, which places the "good of the collective", whatever it may mean, 
above the values you mentionned.  And to deprive them of the ability of 
imposing confiscation, imprisonment and death it to cut them out of their 
tools...

Ciao

jfa


"The tree of liberty must be watered periodically with the blood of
tyrants...."

"Both oligarch and tyrant mistrust the people, and therefore deprive them of their arms."
  -- Aristotle, "Politics"





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Chip Mefford 
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 02:44:00 +0800
To: Anonymous 
Subject: Re: your mail
In-Reply-To: <199810271524.QAA07247@replay.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





Where possible, 

fuk a bunch of airlines anyway.

Travel by train is a lot more enjoyable, relaxing, fun.
Folks that travel by train could fly, but would
preferr to enjoy the ride, cause it ain't no cheaper, 

except, !!

you can pay with cash and show no id and go
where you would like in the lower 48.

anonymously.

On Tue, 27 Oct 1998, Anonymous wrote:

> At 02:43 PM 10/26/98 -0400, Robert A. Costner wrote:
> >At 01:15 PM 10/26/98 -0500, Duncan Frissell wrote:
> >>9.  "I do not posses any government-issued photo ID and thus cannot travel
> >>to the location stated in the subpoena. 
> >
> >ROTFLMAO...
> >
> >This last one is too funny to not use.  I don't have a subpoena, but I can
> >just see myself writing back explaining this and requesting assistance with
> >a plane flight to solve this problem.
> 
> Actually you don't need state id to fly, legally.  But the airlines will
> hassle you and not put your bags aboard til you are.  There
> are references on the net to flying without state id.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   
> 
> 
> 
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: RedRook 
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 06:58:58 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Using a password as a private key.
Message-ID: <19981027215307.3786.rocketmail@send1d.yahoomail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



‚‚‚‚Assymetic crypto systems such as
Diffie-Hellman, El-Gamel, and DSS, allow the private key to be a
randomly chosen number. ‚But, as a cute hack, instead of using a
random number, for the private key, you could use a hash of the User
Name, and a password. 

Doing so allows the users to generate their private key on demand.
They don't have to store the private key, and if they want to work on
a another computer, they don't need to bring along a copy.‚
Has any one tried this? Is there existing software that does this? Any
comments on the security of such a scheme? ‚
The only draw back that I can think of is the potential lack of
randomness in the key. If the user chooses a bad password, it would be
possible to brute force the public key.‚
Harv.‚‚RedRook@yahoo.com‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Chip Mefford 
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 04:14:40 +0800
To: "Joel O'Connor" 
Subject: Re: your mail
In-Reply-To: <19981027190715.184.rocketmail@send101.yahoomail.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





I've taken that same route, except up 
to no. Vermont rather than RI,

I travelled anonymously, for an extra 50 bux, 
I had my own little private cabin, I was never
searched, my bags were never xrayed by incompetent
androids, was able to find company from the 
hordes that you describe to sit with me in my
lil cabin and spend some time (wink wink, nudge
nudge) and so forth. 

yeah, an entire day spent with a whole pile of 
folks can really be a horrible drag, and I'm
told that travelling on the weekends thats
what you can expect. 

But, shuffling in and out of Polizei Central, 
subjecting myself to xrays and potential 
cavity searches, showing ID to every bone
head that demands it, just seems a little
too kyrstalnachtish for my taste, I don't care
if I EVER fly again. 

Its easier, less hassle, more anonymous to
travel by train than it is to drive, or
for that matter, walk.

yes, its VERY easy for the SS
to stop and search a train, but the plane 
is a forgone situation. By entering an
airport, you've already consented to be
stripped of nearly every right you thought
you may have had.

I had an experience like you describe travelling
from Atlanta to DC by bus once when a young-un. 
I too, swore I'd never do it again, and I didn't,
not till I mustered out of the military and they
stuck me on a 10 hr busride to the nearest
depot to go home, and yes, I still hated it.

to each his own, 

take care

chipper

On Tue, 27 Oct 1998, Joel O'Connor wrote:

> I traveled by train all the way to Florida from Rhode Island once.  24
> hours straight it took man and I swore I would never do it again. 
> 40-50 people per car and basically one bathroom per car.  Come morning
> time man, the lines for the bathrooms stretched out of the cars. 
> Screw that, I could have flown and made it in 3 hours. Plus it's
> easier for the gov't to stop trains and search them, I'd rather go
> with the flight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---Chip Mefford  wrote:
> >
> > 
> > 
> > Where possible, 
> > 
> > fuk a bunch of airlines anyway.
> > 
> > Travel by train is a lot more enjoyable, relaxing, fun.
> > Folks that travel by train could fly, but would
> > preferr to enjoy the ride, cause it ain't no cheaper, 
> > 
> > except, !!
> > 
> > you can pay with cash and show no id and go
> > where you would like in the lower 48.
> > 
> > anonymously.
> > 
> > On Tue, 27 Oct 1998, Anonymous wrote:
> > 
> > > At 02:43 PM 10/26/98 -0400, Robert A. Costner wrote:
> > > >At 01:15 PM 10/26/98 -0500, Duncan Frissell wrote:
> > > >>9.  "I do not posses any government-issued photo ID and thus
> cannot travel
> > > >>to the location stated in the subpoena. 
> > > >
> > > >ROTFLMAO...
> > > >
> > > >This last one is too funny to not use.  I don't have a subpoena,
> but I can
> > > >just see myself writing back explaining this and requesting
> assistance with
> > > >a plane flight to solve this problem.
> > > 
> > > Actually you don't need state id to fly, legally.  But the
> airlines will
> > > hassle you and not put your bags aboard til you are.  There
> > > are references on the net to flying without state id.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > >   
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> ==
> Ogre bounces like sonar. . .Peace.
>                   Ogre
> 
> _________________________________________________________
> DO YOU YAHOO!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 07:10:41 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: No Subject
Message-ID: <36364AB2.5C26@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> Most of nature is a very high quality vacuum, actually.
>
Yup, I did my 100hrs of Physics, Chemistry and Math too. I like the way
the 'vacuum' behaves near very hi-Z nuclei.

> Governments have not always been so parasite-infested;
>
And I find this very difficult to believe. 

> this disease progresses slowly, numbingly, unnoticed, like leprosy.
>
Interesting that you use 'numbingly' to describe leprosy; it shows an
understanding of the nature of the infection. Be careful if you swim in
the freshwater streams in Hawaii. Better not have any cuts or abrasions!

More interesting, though, is this: why would a block cipher use key bits
rather than an LFSR to do input or output whitening? Is it strictly a
performance issue? Is it proven that doing this doesn't leak key bits in
some way?

Mike




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 05:39:50 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net,       e$@vmeng.com
Subject: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the ForegoneAlternative
In-Reply-To: <199810271738.MAA03351@postal.research.att.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 12:38 PM -0500 on 10/27/98, Steve Bellovin wrote on dbs:

> For the record, though, I not only don't think that cryptography should
> make the state vanish, I don't think that it will.

Cryptographer ~== Libertarian, certainly. Much less Anarchist.

I like to joke that David Chaum is a liberal statist with a privacy fetish.
PRZ was, too, but, after his bout with a certain kangaroo court prosecutor,
I bet he isn't so liberal anymore. :-)

Crypto *is*, however, a liberty/anarchy magnet. It certainly changed my
thinking about a whole lot of things, including how the state will collapse,
someday, in a giant paroxysm of technological determinism. ;-).


Dragging this back to the topic of the DBS list itself (and, frankly, the
topic is a subset of the cryptography list, too, and lots of others,), the
paradox of financial cryptography, and, more specifically, digital bearer
settlement, is not that it gives you privacy and freedom (anarchy? :-)),
it's because it gives you *cheaper* transactions. Transactions which just
happen to be anonymous.  You don't *have* to keep records in the normal
course of business in order to keep your transactions from unraveling at
some later date.

You can monitor your own business operations, certainly.  But you're not
*forced* to, by some, um, regional monopoly. That's attractive. To lots of
economic actors, besides terrorists, drug dealers, pedophiles and money
launderers. :-). To machines, for instance, but also to actors in  markets
which are, as they say in economics, perfectly competitive, where things
are sold like commodities are.

This is opposed to so-called monopolistic competition, where all of a
company's products are branded as much as possible. McDonald's versus Burger
King is a good example of monopolistic competition. McDonald's doesn't make
something *exactly* like a Whopper, for instance, if they did, they'd be sued
for copyright violation, or even patent enfringement, though they do make
branded, and patented, almost-substitutes. Coke and Pepsi are the same kinds
of thing. Except for the Secret Coke Formula, of course. :-).

But, stuff like soybeans, or switched bits on a wire, or copies of Linux, or
cash, or debt, or even equity in the portfolio aggregate like a stock index,
are not *branded*, they're *graded*.

Every item in a perfectly competitive market is perfectly substitutable with
any other item in that market.  If you're trading graded commodities, you
don't *care* who you're doing business with. You care about what they're
selling you. And it's something which you can verify the quality of on an
independent basis. Those grades are certified by someone with a reputation,
of course, but even those reputations are graded to the extent that they're
priced in a market somewhere. A NYSE seat, for instance, has a price on it,
and I think internet product-certifying reputations will too, someday.
That's what a digital bearer underwriter is, when you think about it.


I think, over time, that Moore's law and a geodesic internetwork gives us
increasingly perfect, and not monopolistic, competition, and, in practically
every market you can imagine. Graded surgical instructions, say.

And to bring up that paroxysm again, if you could convert teleoperated machine
instructions like surgery into graded, fungible, and cash-settled,
commodities, why not force, currently the product of that most monopolistic of
competitors, the nation-state?

Anyway, I think that these perfectly competitive markets will be the of
hallmark of a geodesic information economy, just like marketing and branding
and monopolistic competition are the hallmarks of a late-industrial,
hierarchically-organized, mass-media economy.


But, again, it is the reduced *cost* of those cryptographically-enabled
transactions which will drive everything else, and that is a logical outcome
of the technology of financial cryptography and digital bearer transactions.

The cost of anything is the foregone alternative.


Cheers,
Bob Hettinga


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.5.5

iQEVAwUBNjYjzcUCGwxmWcHhAQGOmgf9F3ZHnTP1Io83CJEPmyiTWww/ppvupmiW
uHh2i+txJoigxNxDbMHtRQDzP9FXtADH8z+nbGmWZY4PnxbxmKcSFDfH0zXL2sMi
beHYaUvya14gtchwPZkCx/XxaZ4RYnZeg7BvjlYWDjScZwgoJP5rV63tSW/gDri1
bnAt2Oa7pNpSmBFad7LNuSTOw0BVZzaoJ/Ucl+MSp2//frf4iL/7p/XjJcOlnhI7
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r/2GgSSulY2/v/D6qOgZk6FUgRNFxtMKts6FU8hce0CdN/Pprj97JQ==
=xWio
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Bernardo B. Terrado" 
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 16:34:08 +0800
To: coderpunks@toad.com
Subject: backtracking.....
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Could someone point or tell me where and what good 
backtracking problems could I get (then I'll implement it in parallel).

e.g. 

queen's tour 
knight's tour

Could you give me new and interesting ones.

Thank you very much.









From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 00:01:23 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: IP: Uncle Sam Wants Spooks.
Message-ID: <199810271521.QAA06953@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




At 02:04 PM 10/26/98 -0500, Robert Hettinga wrote:
> "We teach a concept called open source and
> public domain intelligence -- that is, taking what
> is in the public domain and creating new
> knowledge by analysis and interpretation," he

So does John Young, EFF, FAS, etc.

> Applying for a job with the CIA is easy: Send a
> resume. The CIA scans the resumes it gets

Applying for a job with the NSA is easier.  Just
fax your resume.  Doesn't matter where.








  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 00:03:04 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199810271521.QAA06961@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 11:42 AM 10/26/98 -0800, Michael Motyka wrote:
>> How does this differ from the motives of your ordinary politician?
>> 
>> Post-revolution, will there be caliber limitations when hunting them?
>
>Hunt all you want. The post-revolution utopia will be administered by
>persons of the same mentality as those we have administering our
>Democratic Republic now. They will use the same if not more advanced
>techniques to acquire and maintain power. "Nature abhors a vacuum",
>right?

Most of nature is a very high quality vacuum, actually.

Governments have not always been so parasite-infested; this
disease progresses slowly, numbingly, unnoticed, like leprosy.










  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 00:09:39 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199810271524.QAA07247@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 02:43 PM 10/26/98 -0400, Robert A. Costner wrote:
>At 01:15 PM 10/26/98 -0500, Duncan Frissell wrote:
>>9.  "I do not posses any government-issued photo ID and thus cannot travel
>>to the location stated in the subpoena. 
>
>ROTFLMAO...
>
>This last one is too funny to not use.  I don't have a subpoena, but I can
>just see myself writing back explaining this and requesting assistance with
>a plane flight to solve this problem.

Actually you don't need state id to fly, legally.  But the airlines will
hassle you and not put your bags aboard til you are.  There
are references on the net to flying without state id.










  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Harvey Rook (Exchange)" 
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 09:26:04 +0800
To: "'Michael Motyka'" 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> More interesting, though, is this: why would a block cipher 
> use key bits
> rather than an LFSR to do input or output whitening? Is it strictly a
> performance issue? Is it proven that doing this doesn't leak 
> key bits in
> some way?
> 
> Mike
> 

In many newer block ciphers, the key schedule comes from a fairly good one
way hash of the key. Take a look at RC6, or TwoFish. Essentially this
accomplishes the same thing as using a good LSFR.

Harv.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 07:12:15 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: MIB Subponeas (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810272256.QAA09817@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 12:42:36 -0800
> From: Tim May 
> Subject: Re: MIB Subponeas

> * Is travel paid for? How?  By spending hours completing forms in
> quadruplicate, or do they just cut a check for some per diem sort of
> payment?

The IRS offered to pay my travel from the local Austin airport to Seattle
and pay the hotel bill and meals. I was trying to determine how
transportation in Seattle was going to be handled when they said they didn't
need me in person.

> * What if one has pressing engagements? (Travel out of the country, an
> anniversary party, washing the dog?)

I told them I didn't want to go to Seattle, they suggested an affadavit.

> * What if one shows up with no records and claims not to have them?

Exactly what I did after checking to make sure I didn't. They said 'Ok'.

> * What about lawyer expenses? I know the line about "If you cannot afford

What lawyer? You don't get a lawyer with Grand Juries.

> More soberly, this kind of subpoena could well nuke the Cypherpunks list,

Not even hardly. A subpoena isn't an accussation, it's an instrument to
obtain potentialy relevant testimony and evidence. It means (at least in
this case) "We believe you may know something or have possession of
information related, but not necessarily directly involved in this matter."
The sub-channel message is "Don't fuck with us, you're only about a hairs
breadth away from hell on earth."

Besides, they wanted me to testify *for* the prosecution, preferebly
willingly. The last thing they were going to do was go heavy handed.

> even the distributed node instance. If Igor Chudov, Lance Cottrell, and Jim
> Choate all have to fly to Seattle and face scrutiny, implied threats, and
> possible jail time for failing to jump when the Feds say jump, they may
> decide to stop acting as Fed magnets.

If the operators are that jumpy I suspect they wouldn't put up with the
bills, occassional stupid private emails, the costs in time, etc. I knew
this sort of stuff was a possibility. The only issue that took me by
surprise was two officers showing up at work unannounced. It took me till
the next day to burn off the heeby-jeebies from that.

Of course, a truly motivated and worried, not to mention well heeled,
cypherpunks might consider putting up a node themselves....


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Pallas Anonymous Remailer 
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 09:38:16 +0800
To: ILovToHack@aol.com
Subject: Re: Rendering ( was MIB Subponeas )
Message-ID: <22350d1a55de7eca4ce6d742efc0efc9@anonymous>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





ILovToHack@aol.com wrote:
> 
> First of all i want to apoligize for posting this.
> Second i am a little off on the AP bot could some one please take the time to
> explain this to me.  Thanks.
> -Mike

Pity. You're on it.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 07:52:42 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Cameras in Public Places (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810272334.RAA09993@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 11:57:22 -0800
> From: Michael Motyka 
> Subject: Cameras in Public Places

[ravage: don't remember who said it... > > ]

> > Privacy is also needed on public places (e.g., violated by face 
> > recognition systems)

Anonymity is not equal to privacy.

> The appropriate way of dealing with them is to wait for some people to
> be misidentified and then file suit against the municipality using the
> equipment. Harassment, false arrest, invasion of privacy, abuse of
> power, loss of reputation, loss of the ability to earn a living - take a
> few of the cities for $10 or $20 million and they'll get the message
> that they've been had by the SW vendors.

It makes no more sense to outlaw cameras in private or public places than it
does to outlaw printing presses in some areas, a very basic way they're
identical from the perspective of the law - it isn't the media that matters
(with little respect to Marshall). What matters is they record some
'instance' and allow it to be distributed widely.

What we do need is a mechanism that prohibits the police or other law
enforcement bodies from access without a properly served warrant. Camera use
in say a mall is permissible because it's the vendors who pay the rent who
are deciding what is and isn't safe - not the customers of those vendors.
It's permissible in traffic control and such because it is cost effective in
those applications. In traffic control, if a motorist stalls or a wreck
occurs the civilian (ie non-LEA) operators can call the necessary resources
into play. Once the cop is on the scene a warrant could be issued if charges
of some sort are filed. Ulitimately, what we need is a law that says:

All law enforcement personnel are prohibited from accessing public or
private documents in the course of their duties without a properly served
and executed warrant.

The two key points are 'public and private' and 'course of their duties'. A
cop should be able to walk into a public library and get a book on some
subject of interest (even law enforcement). But if it's related to the
LEA's cases then a warrant should be required to step foot in the building.
Now if he's a beat cop walking his patrol he obviously can't stop chasing a
perp on the run who traverses the library (though it is highly unlikely they
would stop to read, but imagine a dope deal just as well).

Now, one way to deal with that is to insert some sort of phrase about
'openly accessible' or 'anonymously accessible' (that way the question
becomes does one need an ID, if so then you need a warrant).


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 07:57:14 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: looking for articles (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810272340.RAA10108@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: 	Tue, 27 Oct 1998 18:13:14 -0500 (EST)
> From: Homayoun Saleh 
> Subject: looking for articles

> 	I am looking for any articles or papers having to do with the
> computability of Poisson distributions in the plane, and someone suggested
> I ask this list. If anyone knows of anything related, or where else
> I should be looking, please let me know.
> Thanks a lot.

Not sure it's what you're looking for but:

Statistical Distributions
M. Evans, N. Hastings, B. Peacock
ISBN 0-471-55951-2

It's got around 40 different distributions and their related equations and
characteristics. There is also an appendix that lists the various
distributions and the functions in several computational math programs (go
MapleV !)...

Now if you're looking for various approaches to how to impliment it then I
can't help you there, I cookbook that sort of stuff out of my library.

Have you tried Knuth?


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 08:05:21 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Rendering ( was MIB Subponeas ) (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810272344.RAA10172@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 11:31:52 -0800
> From: Michael Motyka 
> Subject: Rendering ( was MIB Subponeas )

> Collecting real names and addresses is, apparently, enough of a concrete
> step to at least begin the "rendering" process. 

Which is the whole point of probable cause and civil rights.

It turns out the 'respect' part is the hard one...;)

> press-squashing, poison-cow BST boys ). Then what would be needed is
> some sort of Eternity Service for an active server - detect tampering
> and jump hosts.

Actualy, something like Plan 9 would be more effective. That way the thing
is distributed from the get go. With a suitably object oriented approach it
could be feasible to distribute the data to specific servers but encode the
program in the connections between the servers task swappers. By using Plan
9's economic resource bidding model it injects a level of anonymity in the
repetitive execution aspect that wouldn't normaly be there.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Christopher Steel - Java Design Center McLean VA 
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 07:44:12 +0800
To: "RedRook" 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Why not encrypt the private key with a 128 bit symmetric key (created from the hash of a username and paasword)
and store on a keyserver, along with the public key?
That way, you don't have to store it yourself locally, you get it off the keyserver.
I wrote a keyserver that does just that.  In addition, it also verifies ies the user before returning the key.
It requires the user to encrypt a known string with a separate password.
The encrypted string is sent to the keyserver, encrypted with the keyserver's public key.
Seems rather safe. Anyone disagree?

-Chris

P.S. I might not use it for military purposes, but for company email...

"RedRook"  wrote:
>Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 13:53:07 -0800 (PST)
>‚‚‚‚Assymetic crypto systems such as
>Diffie-Hellman, El-Gamel, and DSS, allow the private key to be a
>randomly chosen number. ‚But, as a cute hack, instead of using a
>random number, for the private key, you could use a hash of the User
>Name, and a password. 
>
>Doing so allows the users to generate their private key on demand.
>They don't have to store the private key, and if they want to work on
>a another computer, they don't need to bring along a copy.‚
>Has any one tried this? Is there existing software that does this? Any
>comments on the security of such a scheme? ‚
>The only draw back that I can think of is the potential lack of
>randomness in the key. If the user chooses a bad password, it would be
>possible to brute force the public key.‚
>Harv.‚‚RedRook@yahoo.com‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚
>_________________________________________________________
>DO YOU YAHOO!?
>Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Homayoun Saleh 
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 07:53:57 +0800
To: cryptography@c2.net
Subject: looking for articles
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




	Hello, 
	
	I am looking for any articles or papers having to do with the
computability of Poisson distributions in the plane, and someone suggested
I ask this list. If anyone knows of anything related, or where else
I should be looking, please let me know.
Thanks a lot.

Cheers,
Homayoun




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 08:37:01 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: UK police chase crooks on CCTV (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810280020.SAA10370@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: bill.stewart@pobox.com
> X-Sender: wcs@idiom.com (Unverified)
> Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 09:27:28 -0800
> Subject: Re: UK police chase crooks on CCTV (fwd)

> >> ``The only people entered on to the system will be convicted criminals
> >> who, through our intelligence, we believe are habitually committing
> >> crimes in the area,''

> >> Dave Armond as saying. ``If people are not committing crime they have
> >> nothing to fear, but if they are among the small minority who are, the
> >> message is, 'We are watching out for you.'''

> The policeman's statement, if honest, implies that the 
> system needs a real mugshot or more detailed set of pictures to work from, 
> so they're going to start with feeding it the Usual Suspects,
> for whom they can get good data for the system to search.
> It probably also has capacity limitations, so they won't be searching
> for everybody they have pictures of, just the most likely.

For now. What's the curve on facial recognition for 2x improvement?

It would seem probable to me that there would be a feature to snap closeups
off the cameras and feed them back in real-time. Talk about real-time traffic
analysis.

> >We need a law or court ruling pretty quickly in the US that sets the
> >standard that a group of people have no more or less rights than an
> >individual. This will required LEA's to provide probable cause prior to any
> >actions against groups of people (such as this).
> 
> Ain't gonna happen - are you kidding?  If there is a ruling like that,
> it'll be done in some way that restricts citizen rights rather than
> expanding them, or expands police powers rather than restricting them.

I'll have to disagree.

> It's already legal for cops to hang around street corners watching for 
> suspicious activities or suspicious people, and all video recognition

Um, it was always legal and should continue to be so, just as it should be
legal for you or I to stand around that corner and watch for unusual
activity. It's there job. They call it walking the beat.

> Unfortunately, I'm being increasingly forced to take the David Brin position of
> "Cameras are cheap, get used to it, just make sure we have more cameras
> pointing at the cops than they have pointing at us, and make sure
> the cameras the government has are citizen-accessible as well."

I don't know about citizen-accessible. I don't want some joe blow walking
down the street to get access to the cameras that track my trek to work each
day. No, it needs to be very limited and require full interaction of the
courts to gain access. Simply putting on a police uniform (or a army
uniform) shouldn't mean you give up your rights as a citizen.

This may be hard to believe, but I'm not the state's nigger and neither is
that police officer or soldier.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 11:39:22 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: 'Grass-Roots' Lobbyists Unrobed as AT&T
Message-ID: <199810280309.TAA27071@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: 'Grass-Roots' Lobbyists Unrobed as AT&T
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 07:46:23 -0500
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  Washington Post
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/digest/wtech002.htm

'Grass-Roots' Lobbyists Unrobed as AT&T 

By Jackie Spinner
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, October 24, 1998; Page A1 

The Prince George's Coalition Against Hidden Taxes billed itself as a
"grass-roots" organization when it formed 10 days ago to fight proposed
legislation that would charge telecommunications companies seeking to
provide new telephone, Internet or other services. 

In those two weeks, the coalition, which has a paid spokesman and a
professional public relations firm at its disposal, has spent $50,000 on
radio, newspaper and television ads suggesting that the law would create a
"hidden tax" on telephone use for all residential and business customers in
Prince George's County. 

In fact, it is not clear what the legislation would mean for consumers. But
this much is certain: There is very little that is "grass roots" about the
Prince George's Coalition Against Hidden Taxes, which is a massive
lobbying effort by AT&T to quash efforts by Prince George's County to
cash in on the emergence of new communications technologies. 

The media campaign, which Prince George's County Executive Wayne K.
Curry (D) called a "disgraceful fraud," demonstrates how much is at stake
for a rapidly changing telecommunications industry and for a local
government that stands to collect about $6 million a year by taxing
providers of new services. 

Under the proposed legislation, the county would collect 3 percent of
gross revenue generated by companies that seek to use public rights of
way to lay cable, string wire or plant cellular towers to provide new
services. Prince George's County Council members are scheduled to vote
on the legislation Wednesday. 

Prince George's County is the first local jurisdiction in the Washington
region to consider a broad telecommunications fee for using public rights
of way. Governments across the country are struggling with similar efforts,
trying to get fair compensation while encouraging companies to come in
and provide services after the 1996 Telecommunications Act opened the
doors to competition. 

AT&T officials said the legislation is unfair and singles out
telecommunications firms from other users of public land, such as the
Washington Suburban Sanitary Commission, Washington Gas Light Co.
and Potomac Electric Power Co. 

"It's a money grab," said Ross Baker, director of governmental affairs for
AT&T in Maryland. "We pay handsomely right now for the occupancy of
the right of way." 

AT&T now pays permit fees and personal property taxes on equipment
located on public rights of way in Prince George's. The company
estimated those costs to be about $218,000 a year. 

According to AT&T, all phone customers' monthly bills could increase 3
percent to 15 percent if the legislation is passed because the cost would
have to be passed on to consumers. The company said it would indicate
on the bill what portion was the result of a "Prince George's County"
surcharge. 

"Telephone bills are going to go up," said Steve Novak, spokesman for
the AT&T-led coalition. 

County officials and the communications lawyer the county hired to draft
the legislation dispute that contention. They said the legislation
specifically
exempts from the fee basic telephone services such as those provided by
Bell Atlantic. But telecommunications companies, including Bell Atlantic,
would pay a fee for running new Internet lines or providing telephone
service over cable wires, something AT&T is exploring in some markets.
Companies also would be charged for offering new call waiting and call
forwarding features. 

"This legislation will not cause an increase in the prices of traditional
telephone service," said Nicholas P. Miller, the D.C.-based
communications lawyer advising the county. "On the other hand, because
billing is largely deregulated, we have no control over how the companies
may misrepresent the effect of this local rental charge." 

John Dillon, Bell Atlantic's vice president of external affairs, said the
company is opposed to legislation that taxes revenue for any of its
activities, traditional or otherwise. 

"If the county wants to sit down and talk about what costs are not being
covered, we will do that," he said. 

Thomas Haller, president of the Prince George's Chamber of Commerce,
which held what it called an emergency meeting yesterday to discuss the
legislation, said the bill could deter telecommunications companies from
doing business in the county. 

"If companies are dissuaded from providing telecommunications services
here because they can't compete, we're not going to have much
competition," Haller said. 

Novak said AT&T formed the coalition to warn the public about the
county's proposal. People calling the coalition to express their concern
about the legislation are quickly transferred to the office of their County
Council member. 

"We are trying to educate the public," Novak said. 

Council member M.H. Jim Estepp (D-Upper Marlboro), who sponsored
the legislation, said he received calls from residents at a rate of about 16
an hour during one day this week. Often, he said, callers were
disconnected when he started to explain his position. (Novak said the
disconnections are not intentional.) 

"These are big-time tactics, and when big money tries to crush local
government, not only are they doing a disservice to the county, that
becomes the issue," Estepp said. 

Curry agreed. "This isn't any citizens coalition. This is a bunch of giant
companies trying to profit off the public for free," he said. 

But AT&T spokesman Stephen H. Clawson said consumers are the ones
who will be hurt. 

"We found out that there was considerable confusion and concern about
the legislation," he said. "We have an obligation to our customers." 

 (c) Copyright 1998 The Washington Post Company 
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 11:37:47 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Cell phone tapping stirs debate
Message-ID: <199810280309.TAA27081@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Cell phone tapping stirs debate
Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 08:49:06 -0600
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  USA Today
http://www.usatoday.com/life/cyber/tech/ctd698.htm

10/22/98- Updated 12:08 PM ET
 The Nation's Homepage

 Cell phone tapping stirs debate

 WASHINGTON -- Law enforcement officials say they need to
 know where a suspected criminal is when he makes a cellular
 telephone call. Federal regulators are proposing to give them the
 capability to find out.

 The Federal Communications Commission without dissent
 proposed Thursday that cellular phone companies make technical
 changes so the FBI, police and other law enforcers -- as long as a
 court approves -- can locate a person talking on a mobile phone.

 This and other additional wiretapping capabilities being proposed
 aim to help law enforcers keep pace with technology.

 With some 66 million cellular phone customers, police want the
 authority to legally tap cell phones to track down drug dealers,
 terrorists and kidnappers. But some groups worry that such a
 practice could violate privacy.

 The location proposal is part of a larger plan to implement a 1994
 law that requires telecommunications companies to make changes
 in their networks so police can carry out court-ordered wiretaps in
 a world of digital technology. The proposal is based on a plan
 from the telecommunications industry.

 ''We think this is a positive step forward,'' said Stephen Colgate,
 the Justice Department's assistant attorney general for
 administration. ''In many kidnapping cases, it would have been
 very helpful to have location information.''

 But James Dempsey, counsel to the Center for Democracy and
 Technology, a privacy group, said: ''We're prepared to fight this
 one every step of the way.''

 FCC Chairman Bill Kennard stressed that police would have no
 access to locations without a court order.

 ''A lot of people are saying the FCC will turn mobile phones into
 tracking devices for the FBI and invade Americans' privacy. I
 don't believe that will be the case,'' Kennard said.

 With a court order, police already can legally listen in to cell phone
 conversations, and, in some instances, get information on the
 caller's location.

 But not every company has the technical ability to provide a
 caller's location. This proposal, if adopted, would set up a
 nationwide requirement for companies to follow.

 The legal standard for obtaining a location is lower than the
 standard for a wiretap order in which police must show a judge
 there is probable cause of criminal activity.

 Under the proposal, police would only need to show the location
 is relevant to an investigation. Privacy groups say that means the
 government could easily track the movements not only of a
 suspect, but also of associates, friends or relatives.

 It would give police the ability to obtain the cellular phone user's
 location at the beginning and end of a wiretapped call.

 The proposal would provide police with that information based on
 the cellular tower, or ''cell'' site, where a call originated and ended.
 That would give information on the caller's location within several
 city blocks in an urban area to hundreds of square miles in a rural
 area.

 The FBI had been seeking more exact location information.

 The FCC also is expected to tentatively conclude that companies
 must give police, as long as a court approves, additional
 capabilities -- beyond minimum technical standards already
 proposed by the industry -- so their ability to conduct wiretaps
 won't be thwarted.

 The additional capabilities being sought by the FBI that were
 advanced by the FCC include:

Letting police listen in on the conversations of all people on
a conference call, even if some are put on hold and no
longer are talking to the target of a wiretap. 

Letting police get information when the wiretap target has
put someone on hold or dropped someone from a
conference call, and letting them find out if the wiretap
target has used dialing features -- such as call waiting or call
forwarding. 

Giving police the number dialed by a wiretap target when
the suspect, for instance, uses a credit or calling card at a
pay phone. 

 Privacy groups and the telephone industry contend the additional
 capabilities sought by the FBI go beyond the 1994 law and are an
 attempt to broaden wiretapping powers. The FBI says it merely
 wants to preserve the ability to conduct legal wiretaps in a world
 of constantly changing technology.

 The FCC is involved because the Justice Department, FBI and the
 telecommunications industry, after three years of negotiations,
 were unable to reach agreement on the larger plan for
 implementing the 1994 law.

 All interested parties will get a chance to offer opinions on the
 proposal, which could be revised. Kennard wants a final plan
 adopted by the end of the year.

 (c)COPYRIGHT 1998 USA TODAY, a division of Gannett Co. Inc.
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 11:41:08 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Bioterrorism: America's Newest War Game
Message-ID: <199810280309.TAA27092@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Bioterrorism: America's Newest War Game
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 06:07:57 -0600
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  The Nation
http://www.thenation.com/issue/981109/1109PRIN.HTM

BIOTERRORISM 
 AMERICA'S NEWEST WAR GAME 

 BY PETER PRINGLE 

 "Catastrophic Terrorism" roars the headline over an article in the current
Foreign
 Affairs. The three distinguished authors--John Deutch, a former director
of Central
 Intelligence; Ashton Carter, an ex-Pentagon assistant secretary; and
Philip Zelikow, a
 former member of the National Security Council--declare with unswerving
certainty
 that "the danger of weapons of mass destruction being used against America
and its
 allies is greater now than at any time since the Cuban Missile Crisis of
1962." Any act
 of "catastrophic terrorism," they say, could have the effect of Pearl
Harbor; it could
 divide America into a "before and after." 

 This is no shot across the bow of a sleeping ship. America is now spending
$7 billion a
 year defending itself against backpack nuclear bombs, canisters of nerve
gas and petri
 dishes of germ weapons planted in crowded cities by an as-yet-unknown
adversary.
 So many different agencies are shoring up the nation's defenses against
 mega-terrorism, says the government auditor, that it's hard to keep track
of where all
 the money is going, let alone whether it is being spent wisely. 

 Any new government project tagged with the word "terrorism" goes to the
top of the
 pile in Congress. The Pentagon is ordering devices to sniff out nerve
gases and deadly
 germs. National Guard units that normally deal with floods and hurricanes
are being
 trained as chemical and biological SWAT teams. Under the threat of another
war with
 Iraq, all 2.4 million American troops are being vaccinated against
anthrax, and
 companies are scrambling to provide the vaccines--including, notably, a
company
 founded by Adm. William Crowe Jr., a former chairman of the Joint Chiefs
of Staff.
 The FBI wants to send more agents into embassies abroad and is demanding
its own
 planes to shuttle investigative teams around the world. Local and state
governments
 used to dealing with flu epidemics are preparing for the nightmare gas or
microbe
 attack. And one can only imagine what antiterrorist projects the CIA has been
 dreaming up with its "black" budget of covert ops. Now the players in this
new war
 game have got a new title for their grim pursuit. 

 The thrust of "Catastrophic Terrorism" is a grand reorganization of the
Pentagon, CIA
 and FBI bureaucracies to eliminate the perennial agency overlaps and gaps
between
 "foreign" and "domestic" terrorism. The authors want to pool intelligence
at the FBI,
 create new Catastrophic Terrorism Response Offices, already dubbed CTROs, and
 cut the two dozen agencies with shopping lists for vaccines, gas sniffers
and protective
 clothing down to one--the Defense Department--because, they say, the
Pentagon has
 the expertise when it comes to rapid acquisition. The operation sounds
like it's a few
 steps short of war mobilization. 

 All but the new title, perhaps, could have been predicted (the original
choice, "Grand
 Terrorism," was rejected on the grounds that there is nothing grand about
this method
 of warfare). Beached by the fall of Communism and the end of the cold war,
planners
 in the Pentagon and military think tanks have been circling a number of
new threats:
 First it was drug wars and then "rogue" states; but international
terrorism has an
 enduring quality in the annals of "threat politics." By dividing the
phenomenon into two
 distinct parts--conventional and catastrophic--Deutch, the quintessential
 academic/consultant to the Pentagon and the defense industry, and his
co-authors have
 mirrored the old cold war categories of conventional and nuclear weapons. 

 Conventional terrorist weapons are truck bombs filled with fertilizer
explosive.
 Catastrophic terrorist weapons are nuclear, chemical and especially
biological--the
 very weapons President Nixon renounced three decades ago in an effort to
prevent
 their spread to other countries. The sixties US arsenal of biological
weapons--then the
 world's largest and most sophisticated--has come back to haunt those now
charged
 with the defense of the nation. 

 Chemical weapons of mass destruction have been used in state-sponsored
 warfare--by Iraq against Iran and its own Kurdish population--and
fragments of
 Saddam Hussein's dismantled Scud missiles were alleged by US investigators
to have
 traces of VX, the deadliest of all nerve gases. The worry is that such
weapons could
 also be used by Islamic fundamentalist groups such as the one that
President Clinton
 said he was concerned about when he recently authorized the firing of
cruise missiles at
 a pharmaceutical plant in Sudan--or by groups such as the Japanese cult Aum
 Shinrikyo, or by homegrown US adherents to survivalism. 

 No one denies the threat of catastrophic terrorism, but the pace at which
it has taken
 center stage as the prime threat to US security is almost as unnerving as
the threat
 itself. In the media, Russian defectors talk alarmingly of new strains of
untreatable
 anthrax and deadly cocktails of smallpox and Ebola; teenage hackers invade
 super-secret Pentagon computers; Aum Shinrikyo is said to be back in
force, if not in
 action, after the Tokyo subway nerve gas incident; and three Texans are
charged with
 plotting to assassinate President Clinton with a cactus needle coated with
botulin
 flicked from a cigarette lighter. 

 Outside the calm of the international affairs departments of MIT and
Harvard (where
 Deutch and Carter work), or the offices of the Washington Beltway
"bandits" bulging
 with profits from new contracts related to terrorism, or indeed in the
Pentagon itself,
 where new acronyms bloom, a sense of panic is in the air. Expert after
expert says it's
 not a question of if but when this doomsday will occur. The media cast
around for
 bogymen and find Russia with its rusting biological weapons labs and
penniless
 scientists who could aid and abet the new bioterrorists. 

 Actually, in most years since 1980 the number of Americans killed by
terrorists has
 been fewer than ten, but the toll can suddenly jump. In 1983, 271
Americans were
 killed by terrorist attacks, most of them in the bombing of the Marine
barracks in
 Lebanon. Then came bombs at the World Trade Center in 1993 (six dead, 1,000
 injured), the Oklahoma City federal building in 1995 (168 dead, 500
injured) and the
 Khobar Towers Air Force housing complex in Saudi Arabia in 1996 (nineteen
dead,
 500 injured). The World Trade Center in New York is often taken as a
starting point
 for the new concern. What if the World Trade Center bomb had been nuclear,
or had
 dispersed a deadly pathogen? 

 In the rush to play a new war game there is always a tendency to hype the
threat. Last
 November Defense Secretary William Cohen appeared on TV holding a bag of
sugar
 claiming the equivalent amount of anthrax spores would be enough to kill
half the
 population of Washington, DC, an illustration that would only be valid if
the dispersal
 were perfect and the wind were always blowing in the right direction.
Republican
 Senator Fred Thompson, chairman of the Senate Governmental Affairs Committee,
 asked meekly of the terrorist threat, "Is it being overblown?" (The pun
was apparently
 unintended.) 

 There is, after all, no 100 percent protection against chemical or biological
 weapons--as there was no 100 percent protection against nuclear weapons. That
 doesn't prevent the rise of a new threat industry, of course, but one must
ask whether
 there is a way of averting catastrophe other than building Fortress America. 

 One of the true believers in the need for elaborate defenses against germ
weapons is
 none other than President Clinton. He became a convert, and started
pushing for
 stockpiles of vaccines, after reading--among all the intelligence reports
on terrorism
 and the Iraq crisis--a novel titled The Cobra Event, about a fictitious
germ attack on
 Manhattan using a mixture of smallpox and cold viruses. Chemical and
biological
 warfare is great fiction material, of course, but are we in danger of
being unable to
 separate fact from fiction? 

 The author of the novel, Richard Preston, also wrote a non-fiction account
of the rise
 of "bioterrorism" in a March issue of The New Yorker. The article quoted a
Russian
 who was involved in the Soviet biological weapons program named Kanatjan
 Alibekov, who had been the Number Two in charge of the weapons section of the
 archipelago of Soviet biological plants known as Biopreparat. He
"defected" in 1992,
 a year after the fall of Communism, and changed his name to Ken Alibek. In
The New
 Yorker he said the Soviets had built huge plants for the production of
biological
 weapons. 

 In the 1972 Nixon-negotiated Biological Weapons Convention, which
prohibited the
 development, production and stockpiling of these weapons, there was a
loophole; the
 treaty did not prevent countries from building a production line for such
weapons and
 keeping it in reserve. This is what the Soviets did--something US
intelligence had
 known about for some time. 

 But Alibek claims that the Russians had actually used these facilities to
produce tons of
 deadly anthrax, some of which had been genetically engineered so that
available
 vaccines were useless, and some of which may have been put into the
warheads of
 intercontinental ballistic missiles. Alibek also asserted that the
Russians had
 experimented with deadly cocktails of smallpox spiked with the Ebola
virus, which
 causes internal hemorrhaging, and with Venezuelan equine encephalitis, a
brain virus. 

 For almost a dozen breathless pages, The New Yorker treated its readers to
 gruesome details of the power of these pathogens, pausing only when the
author,
 himself out of puff, asked the key question: Does anyone believe Alibek?
Or is he, as a
 defector who has apparently outlived his usefulness to the CIA's covert
intelligence
 world, trying to make a buck in civvy street by exaggerating the
importance of his
 information? Preston consulted an old cold warrior, Bill Patrick, the
retired US
 biological warfare expert who was chief of product development for the US
Army's
 biological warfare laboratories at Fort Detrick, Maryland. Patrick, quite
reasonably for
 an old campaigner, takes the defector on trust; if Alibek doesn't know
what the
 Soviets were doing, then who does? But other scientific experts, not given
a hearing
 until page twelve of the thirteen-page New Yorker article, ranged from
skeptical to
 dismissive. 

 One was Dr. Peter Jahrling, the chief scientist at the US Army medical
research
 Institute of Infectious Diseases. He was one of Alibek's original
debriefers. Jahrling
 told The New Yorker, "His [Alibek's] talk about chimeras [mixtures] of
Ebola is sheer
 fantasy, in my opinion." Preston also consulted Joshua Lederberg, the Nobel
 Prize­winning molecular biologist and a member of a working group at the
National
 Academy of Sciences who advises the government on biological weapons and the
 potential for terrorism. Lederberg told Preston, "It's not even clear to
me that adding
 Ebola genes to smallpox would make it more deadly." Putting these comments
higher
 up in the article would have been more responsible journalism, clearly,
but it would
 also have spoiled the story. 

 The week before the New Yorker article ran, Alibek was given his first
television
 exposure, on Diane Sawyer's PrimeTime Live show. "Biological weapons. They're
 real, they're here...smallpox, Ebola, anthrax," was how the hourlong show
began.
 Alibek told Sawyer that the Russians had created a deadly genetic merger
of smallpox
 and Ebola. "In this case, [the] mortality rate [is] about 90 percent, up
to 100 percent.
 No treatment techniques," warned Alibek. "How many people could they have
killed?"
 Sawyer asked him. "The entire population of Earth several times," he
replied. ABC
 generously shared Alibek with the New York Times, which, in return, promoted
 Sawyer's show on its front page with an interview with the former Soviet
 scientist--including a warning (not mentioned by Sawyer) that Alibek was
considered
 by US intelligence to be credible about the "subjects he knows
firsthand...[but] less
 reliable on political and military issues." 

 Sawyer's search for Soviet malfeasance took her to Ekaterinburg (formerly
the Soviet
 city of Sverdlovsk), where, in 1979, an accidental release of anthrax
spores from a
 Soviet military compound killed more than sixty people. After reports of
the accident
 reached the West through Soviet émigrés, Moscow claimed the deaths were
because
 of anthrax-tainted meat (anthrax is endemic in the region). Matthew
Meselson, the
 Harvard molecular biologist and the scientist who was instrumental in
persuading
 Nixon to outlaw biological weapons in 1969, led a team of investigators to
 Sverdlovsk. In 1994 Meselson proved in an article in Science, the journal
of the
 American Association for the Advancement of Science, that in fact there
had been a
 release of anthrax spores from the military compound, and he confirmed
nearly seventy
 deaths. 

 But Sawyer, who spent four months researching the show, never interviewed
 Meselson or anyone from his team, including Jeanne Guillemin, a
sociologist at Boston
 College who had cross-checked a Russian casualty list with hospital
records, local
 interviews and grave sites. Instead, Sawyer referred to an unnamed
director of a
 Sverdlovsk military hospital as saying there had been 259 victims--but not
how many
 of the victims had died. Sawyer's staff called Professor Meselson the
night before the
 program aired, but merely to ask his help with the pronunciation of a
number of drugs
 used to treat the victims: penicillin, cephalosporin, chloramphenicol and
 corticosteroids. 

 In a further effort to suggest that more spookiness was afoot, Sawyer
recorded that at
 the end of 1997 Russian scientists had published a paper in the British
medical journal
 Vaccine describing the creation of a genetically engineered anthrax strain
that was
 resistant to standard Russian anthrax vaccine. "Might the Russians be
creating germs
 that can resist vaccines?" asked Sawyer. But was there really anything
sinister about
 the Russian work? Were the Russian experiments threatening a new kind of
 catastrophic terrorism, or were Russian scientists simply studying the
lethality of
 anthrax, which is endemic in Russia? 

 Sawyer didn't mention that Western intelligence had known about the new
anthrax
 strains for almost two years--from an unclassified International Workshop
on Anthrax
 held at Winchester, England, in September 1995. The Russian scientists had
openly
 described their experiments at the meeting sponsored by a number of
commercial,
 charitable and professional organizations independent of the US and British
 governments. 

 Bioterrorism, biocriminals, bioweaponeers--all good buzzwords for
novelists and
 movie makers who will continue to sound alarms and attract influential
followers, no
 doubt; but the fact is, there have been only two serious uses of
biological weapons in
 this century: one by the Japanese Imperial Army against China, and the
other a failed
 attempt by Aum Shinrikyo to disperse anthrax spores. 

 So if there are terrorists out there wanting to use biological or chemical
or nuclear
 weapons, how good is our intelligence about them? In hearings before
Congress in
 1995 the CIA admitted that its terrorism intelligence desk somehow missed
the 1994
 sarin gas attack by Aum Shinrikyo in Matsumoto, which killed seven
people--although
 the event had been reported in the Japanese and European press and even in
the
 US-owned International Herald Tribune. Such revelations suggest that a new,
 multi-agency National Intelligence Center, as proposed by Deutch et al. in
Foreign
 Affairs, might not only be a good idea but a necessity. But why a whole new
 bureaucracy? Why the Manhattan Project syndrome? The Aum Shinrikyo story
 suggests that a small band of well-trained researchers who tap into
publicly available
 information could be as useful as national information centers, wiretaps
and grand jury
 investigations. 

 The risk in rushing to meet the new threat--any new threat--with new
departments of
 counter-espionage and counter-weapons is that the old art of deterrence
through
 international treaties will take a back seat. The United States already
has a policy that
 criminalizes terrorist activity at home, including the post­Oklahoma City
 Anti-Terrorism Act of 1996. It also supports sanctions against countries
promoting
 terrorism and corporations exporting material that could be used to
produce weapons
 of mass destruction. 

 In the article on catastrophic terrorism, Deutch et al. mention the
proposal of Harvard
 professor Meselson and his law professor colleague, Philip Heymann, for an
 international convention making it a crime for individuals to engage in
the production of
 biological or chemical weapons. The existing chemical and biological
conventions
 apply only to states. The idea is to deter national leaders, such as
Saddam Hussein,
 and groups such as Aum Shinrikyo, from seeking to develop chemical or
biological
 weapons, and to discourage corporations from assisting them because the
scientist or
 the CEO could be arrested. If such a treaty had existed and been supported
by the
 United States in the eighties when Iraq was using poison gas and
developing biological
 weapons, the suppliers and advisers on whom Saddam depended could have been
 brought to trial. 

 The proposal is being co-promoted by Meselson's longtime ally in the fight
to eliminate
 chemical and biological weapons, Julian Perry Robinson of the University
of Sussex in
 England. The crimes are carefully defined in the precise language of the
chemical and
 biological conventions, now ratified by 120 and 141 countries
respectively. Under the
 proposed law any nation that is party to the existing conventions would be
bound
 either to prosecute or to extradite a violator. Such treaties already in
effect are aimed
 at piracy, genocide, airline hijacking and harming diplomats on active
duty. If the
 proposal becomes law, terrorists would have their support group cut from
under them;
 there is even the suggestion of a reward for anyone who provides
information leading
 to a perpetrator's arrest. Maybe the fiction writers will pick up the idea
too. Then, who
 knows whether the FBI or some adventurer from the plaintiff's
bar--bringing, say, a
 class action on behalf of aggrieved shareholders of a company caught
trading in
 anthrax--will be the first to be responsible for the arrest of the
culprits? The next
 generation of terror novels should be filled with "biocriminals" and
"chemothugs." 

 For an alternative view, and relief from the drumbeat of the New Threat
merchants,
 one can turn to this quarter's Foreign Policy, a rival of Foreign Affairs.
In an article
 titled "The Great Superterrorism Scare," Ehud Sprinzak, a professor of
political
 science at Jerusalem's Hebrew University, suggests that the voices of doom
are
 mistaken. Their concept of post­cold war chaos breeding terrorist fanatics
is simply
 not supported by the evidence of three decades. "Despite the lurid
rhetoric, a massive
 terrorist attack with nuclear, chemical, or biological weapons is hardly
inevitable. It is
 not even likely," he writes. "Terrorists wish to convince us that they are
capable of
 striking from anywhere at any time, but there is really no chaos. In fact,
terrorism
 involves predictable behavior, and the vast majority of terrorist
organizations can be
 identified well in advance." Such views tend to go unheard by doomsayers. The
 Republicans added $9 billion to the military budget, including several
additional millions
 for antiterrorism projects, by emphasizing unpreparedness--sure to be a
big issue in
 Election 2000. 

---
 Peter Pringle, a British journalist, reported on the end of the cold war from
 Washington and Moscow for The Independent of London. 

Join a discussion in the Digital Edition Forums. 
 Or send your letter to the editor to letters@thenation.com. 

The Nation Digital Edition http://www.thenation.com 

 Copyright (c) 1998, The Nation Company, L.P.
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 11:36:16 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Europe May Block Flow of Internet Data With US
Message-ID: <199810280309.TAA27103@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Europe May Block Flow of Internet Data With US
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 09:45:04 -0600
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  Christian Science Monitor
http://www.csmonitor.com/todays_paper/reduced/today/intl/intl.3.html

International - Monday October 26, 1998 

Europe May Block Flow of Internet Data With US 
Peter Ford, Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor 

PARIS -- Radically different American and European notions of privacy and
how to protect it are
threatening to curb the worldwide boom in electronic commerce. 

New European Union rules governing international transfers of personal data
over the Internet go
into effect today. They commit EU governments to strict new privacy
standards in electronic
databases storing citizens' personal details. And they oblige governments
to block data transfers to
countries that fail to uphold "adequate" privacy provisions. 

That, in the European Commission's view, includes the United States.

Year-long efforts by senior US negotiators to convince the EU otherwise
have shown how "in
Europe, privacy is seen as a human right ... while the Americans are saying
that the market should
look after it," says Christiaan van der Valk, an expert in electronic
privacy issues with the
Paris-based International Chamber of Commerce.

Unless European and US negotiators reach agreement, the EU directive "could
have pretty severe
long-term effects, hindering the extension of e-commerce and the
globalization of industry generally,"
warns IBM spokeswoman Armgard von Reden.

The new rules give European citizens the right to access personal data held
on them by private
corporations and to correct it if it is false. Individuals must give
consent to the processing of sensitive
data such as medical records or details of ethnicity.

Web-site operators routinely capture personal information about users who
visit their sites and sell it
to direct marketing companies and other clients. "Privacy safeguards in the
United States have not
kept up to date," argued Marc Rotenberg, a teacher of privacy law at
Georgetown University in
Washington, in testimony to the US House of Representatives earlier this year.

If data protection officials in European countries were to start forbidding
the transfer of personal
data to the US this week, or demanding individual notification of such
transfers from data
processors, "everything would grind to a halt," says Philip Jones,
assistant registrar at Britain's Data
Protection Registry, a government body.

Every day companies such as airlines, banks, and insurance firms transfer
millions of bits of
information - like names, addresses, and phone numbers - on clients or
potential customers. 

But "nobody is going to go down to some basement in European Union
headquarters to throw a
switch that will shut off all data flows on Monday morning," adds Professor
Rotenberg.

Only a handful of the 15 EU countries have passed the legislation to
implement the Commission's
directive. The Commission is still negotiating with the US on how the rules
will be enforced.

Washington, reluctant to legislate, is seeking EU approval for a voluntary
system. US companies
wishing to process Europeans' personal information would adhere to a set of
principles laid down
by the Department of Commerce. How they would be enforced, however, and how
European
citizens could seek redress for any grievances, is not yet clear.

Alternatively, US negotiators are suggesting companies could join systems
such as the Online
Privacy Alliance, set up by IBM and Time-Warner, among others. Members
commit themselves to
respect the alliance's privacy standards and to submit to checks by
Trust-e, an independent
verification organization.

Data-importing companies in the US could also sign contracts with the
exporter, pledging to treat
information with the same degree of confidentiality it would enjoy in
Europe. "Most global
companies are heading in this direction," says Ms. von Reden. 

EC officials were to meet European representatives today to discuss the
American proposals and
Washington's request for a 90-day extension of the application of the new
rules. Nobody expects
dramatic changes this week, but privacy activists are expected to test the
directive as soon as it
comes into force by laying a complaint against a high-profile company such
as Visa International or
Citigroup.

At the moment, says one executive with an international financial services
group, "I am not sure that
anyone can say how this is all supposed to work in real life." 
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 11:37:47 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: [FP] Microsoft puts smart card on table
Message-ID: <199810280309.TAA27119@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: "ScanThisNews" 
Subject: IP: [FP] Microsoft puts smart card on table
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 19:56:43 -0600
To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com


SCAN THIS NEWS
10/26/98


Microsoft puts smart card on table

http://www.news.com/News/Item/0%2C4%2C27923%2C00.html?dd.ne.tx.fs6.1026

By Tim Clark
Staff Writer, CNET News.com
October 26, 1998

Update: Microsoft tomorrow will announce an extension of its Windows
operating system for smart cards, a company spokesman said today.

Smart cards, which have very limited memory and processing power, are about
the size of a credit card and embedded with a computer chip. The technology
is used for storing data on mobile phones, banking online, and paying for
phone calls and public transit fares.

Microsoft vice president Paul Maritz is scheduled to announce the operating
system initiative tomorrow at Cartes 98, a conference on smart card
technology in Paris.

A new system from Microsoft could bring more acceptance of smart cards in
the United States. Smart cards have been used in Europe, which holds more
than 80 percent of the market, but have been slow to progress in America, at
least in part beacuse of the lack of a standard operating system.

Microsoft is bidding to enter that arena, but Sun Microsystems is already
active in that space with its JavaCard specification. In addition, Mondex,
an e-cash company controlled by MasterCard has its MultOS system designed so
cards with different operating systems can work together.

The company's interest in smart cards parallels its strategy with Windows
CE, a stripped-down version of its PC operating system for consumer
electronics devices. In April, Microsoft announced a version of Windows CE
for automobiles, gas pumps, industrial controllers, and other uses.

The smart-card initiative seeks to go after even smaller, cheaper
devices--particularly when rival Sun is targeting the same business. The
Microsoft spokesman said card developers could use existing Windows tools to
work with their software.

The annual Paris show is a major showcase for the smart card industry.
Schlumberger, a major French manufacturer of smart cards, today unveiled new
software for its cards that transforms a smart card into a security device
to identify its holder.

Many PC makers have said they will produce machines with smart-card readers
built in, a capability that Microsoft has provided in its desktop PC
operating systems. Microsoft has a certification and logo program that
indicates smart card systems work with Windows NT.

=======================================================================
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2) it is consistent with what you already know to be true.
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 11:36:49 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.68: No Data Flow Disruption Between EU & US--at Least for Now
Message-ID: <199810280309.TAA27131@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: "ama-gi ISPI" 
Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.68: No Data Flow Disruption Between EU & US--at Least for Now
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 02:33:46 -0800
To: 

ISPI Clips 5.68: No Data Flow Disruption Between EU & US--at Least for Now.
News & Info from the Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI)
Tuesday October 27, 1998
ISPI4Privacy@ama-gi.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This From: CNET News.com, October 25, 1998
http://www.news.com

European privacy deadline nears
http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,27920,00.html

By
Tim Clark
Staff Writer, CNET News.com

The European Union will not disrupt the flow of data between Europe and the
United States, even though strict new privacy protections took effect in
Europe yesterday, a key Commerce Department official said today.

The new European Union privacy directive prohibits sending personal data to
nations whose privacy protections aren't as vigorous as in the 15-country
bloc, but Commerce undersecretary David Aaron said today that the Europeans
have agreed to open formal negotiations on how U.S. firms can comply with
it.

U.S. diplomats have been discussing the issue with the European Commission
for six months, in talks described as discussions rather than as
negotiations.

"We believe we can reach a resolution, and we think it is imperative that
we do so promptly," Aaron said, naming December 15 as a target to close the
matter.

"The U.S. premise is that the United States has effective privacy
protection but that the approach here is different than in Europe," he
said. "We will seek an arrangement that provides a workable framework on
both sides of Atlantic, where data will be secured and disruption of
transatlantic data flows will be avoided."

The EU's privacy directive, if enforced, could prevent database marketing
firms, Web sites, U.S. firms with European employees, and credit card
companies from sending personal data back to the United States. That's
because the privacy directive bars export of data to nations whose
protection of personal data is not certified to be as strong as Europe's.

The issue remains a sticking point despite earlier hints from the White
House that the problem would be settled by now.

Months of discussions have led U.S. officials to hope that the private
sector-led approach favored by the Clinton administration can be reconciled
with strict privacy laws in many European nations.

The United States is proposing a concept dubbed "safe harbor:" In the
absence of U.S. privacy legislation, American firms could voluntarily
adhere to a set of privacy practices such as those from TRUSTe
http://www.truste.org/ ], the business-backed U.S. privacy group pushing
voluntary privacy guidelines on the Internet. The U.S. and the European
Union will negotiate as to the content of privacy guidelines that would be
considered acceptable protections to allow U.S. firms to send personal data
on individuals from Europe to the United States.

"If companies did that, privacy protections would be considered 'adequate,'
and there would be a presumption that data would be able to flow," the U.S.
official said.

TRUSTe executive director Susan Scott has spoken favorably in recent weeks
about the safe harbor concept, and she outlined the idea to the Europeans
earlier this year.

But privacy law advocate Marc Rotenberg, executive director of the
Electronic Privacy Information Center, isn't sure the safe harbor concept
will fly.

"The U.S. had been saying there was going to be some big agreement, but
there isn't one," said Rotenberg, who favors strong U.S. privacy laws. "So
there is still a question as to whether U.S. firms will be blocked by the
EU directive."

Copyright (c) 1995-98 CNET, Inc.

--------------------------------NOTICE:------------------------------
ISPI Clips are news & opinion articles on privacy issues from
all points of view; they are clipped from local, national and international
newspapers, journals and magazines, etc. Inclusion as an ISPI Clip
does not necessarily reflect an endorsement of the content or opinion
by ISPI. In compliance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed free without profit or payment for non-profit research
and educational purposes only.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

ISPI Clips is a FREE e-mail service from the "Institute for the Study
of Privacy Issues" (ISPI). To receive "ISPI Clips" on a regular bases
(up to 3 - 8 clips per day) send the following message  "Please
enter [Your Name] into the ISPI Clips list: [Your e-mail address]" to:
ISPIClips@ama-gi.com  .

The Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) is a small
contributor-funded organization based in Victoria, British Columbia
(Canada). ISPI operates on a not-for-profit basis, accepts no
government funding and takes a global perspective.

ISPI's mandate is to conduct & promote interdisciplinary research
into electronic, personal and  financial privacy with a view toward
helping ordinary people understand the degree of privacy they have
with respect to government, industry and each other and to likewise
inform them about techniques to enhance their privacy.

But, none of this can be accomplished without your kind and
generous financial support. If you are concerned about the erosion
of your privacy in general, won't you please help us continue this
important work by becoming an "ISPI Supporter" or by taking out
an institute Membership?

We gratefully accept all contributions:

  Less than $60    ISPI Supporter
          $60 - $99    Primary ISPI Membership (1 year)
      $100 - $300    Senior ISPI Membership (2 years)
More than $300    Executive Council Membership (life)

Your ISPI "membership" contribution entitles you to receive "The ISPI
Privacy Reporter" (our bi-monthly 12 page hard-copy newsletter in
multi-contributor format) for the duration of your membership.

For a contribution form with postal instructions please send the following
message "ISPI Contribution Form" to ISPI4Privacy@ama-gi.com .

We maintain a strict privacy policy. Any information you divulge to ISPI
is kept in strict confidence. It will not be sold, lent or given away to
any third party.








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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 11:36:38 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.69: EU Law Aims to Protect Privacy of Personal Data
Message-ID: <199810280309.TAA27142@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: "ama-gi ISPI" 
Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 5.69: EU Law Aims to Protect Privacy of Personal Data
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 02:34:54 -0800
To: 

ISPI Clips 5.69: EU Law Aims to Protect Privacy of Personal Data
News & Info from the Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI)
Tuesday October 27, 1998
ISPI4Privacy@ama-gi.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This From: The New York Times, October 26, 1998
http://www.nytimes.com

European Law Aims to Protect Privacy of Personal Data
http://search.nytimes.com/search/daily/bin/fastweb?getdoc+site+iib-site+45+
0+wAAA+privacy

By
EDMUND L. ANDREWS

FRANKFURT, Germany -- The European Union put into effect a law Sunday
prohibiting U.S.-style buying and selling of personal data, a move that
could interrupt electronic commerce with the United States if the two sides
fail to resolve deep philosophical and legal differences over protecting
privacy.

The goal of the European law is to prohibit companies from using
information about their customers in ways the customers never intended --
for example, selling it to other companies for use as a marketing tool.

The new law affects an enormous range of information that companies collect
about people in the course of daily business, from credit-card transactions
to magazine subscriptions to telephone records, as well as the electronic
footprints that people leave when they visit sites on the World Wide Web.

The law was adopted three years ago by the European Union after a majority
of its 15 member nations agreed to issue what is known as a directive.
Under European law, each member nation is required to implement the
directive by enacting its own law. Six nations have drafted or passed such
laws so far.

Beyond its impact on Europe, the directive has the potential to disrupt
electronic commerce with the United States. A key provision of the new
measure would prohibit any company doing business in the European Union
from transmitting personal data to any country that does not guarantee
comparable privacy protection -- foremost among them, at this point, the
United States.

American direct-marketing companies, which make money buying, selling and
developing business strategies based on huge data banks of personal
information about consumers, have lobbied hard against government
regulation of their industry. As a result, the Clinton administration has
adopted a more laissez-faire approach under which data industries would be
allowed to police themselves through self-regulatory organizations.

U.S. officials say they agree with Europe on the basic principle that
privacy should be protected but they have big differences about the best
way to carry it out.

"They have privacy czars and bureaucracies, and that kind of top-down
approach would probably be regarded as a violation of privacy rights by
many people in the U.S.," David Aaron, undersecretary of commerce, said of
European nations.

Aaron, who held talks on the issue with European officials in Brussels,
Belgium, earlier this month, added, "We say, 'Let's create a situation
where, if companies agree to follow certain data practices, they can be
held harmless under the new directive."'

If the issue, which neither side paid much attention to until a few months
ago, is not resolved, European officials could theoretically soon begin to
block trans-Atlantic data transfers by multinational corporations and the
growing number of Internet companies.

European officials say they have no plans for any blockades soon, and are
hopeful about reaching a peaceful resolution. Officials from the United
States and Europe say they held constructive positive discussions earlier
this month. The European Commission has scheduled a meeting on the issue
for Monday, and it is expected to seek some kind of temporary solution
while the two sides negotiate.

Underlying the debate is a deeper political issue that is fraught with
cultural baggage. For years, European nations have been far tougher than
the United States about protecting privacy. Many countries essentially ban
telephone marketing to people's homes, and that prohibition is now being
applied to unsolicited sales approaches by fax and e-mail.

Several nations, including Germany and the Netherlands, have government
agencies devoted exclusively to protecting personal data.

Acting as ombudsmen, these agencies investigate complaints from individuals
who believe that companies have mishandled information about them.
Companies that are accused of violating privacy laws can be prosecuted
under criminal laws.

"There is a great difference in attitudes about privacy protection between
Europe and the United States," said Ulrich Sieber, a law professor at the
University of Wuertzburg in Germany.

U.S. privacy laws are far more lax and consist of a hodgepodge of statutes
and regulations enforced by various state and federal agencies charged with
oversight of other industries, like, for instance, those that regulate
banks.

In sharp contrast with Europe, an entire industry has arisen in the United
States that specializes in trolling public and private sources for vast
quantities of personal information, like birth records, drivers' license
numbers and torrents of data accumulated by retailers about customers'
individual purchases.

The new European directive embraces several basic principles that national
governments must now translate into their own laws. It requires that
companies tell people when they collect information about them and disclose
how that information will be used. In addition, customers must provide
informed consent before any company can legally use that data.

The law also requires companies to give people access to information about
themselves.

U.S. officials say they agree with those requirements in principle, but
disagree with giving people unconditional access to information about
themselves, saying access should be allowed only if it is reasonable or
practical to do so.

The more difficult issues are enforcement and policing. Aaron says the
United States wants to give companies a variety of "safe harbors" to
satisfy privacy protection. One idea is to create independent
self-regulatory organizations that would monitor a company's data practices
and would give well-behaved companies what amounts to a stamp of approval.

Another option, they say, should be for companies to deal directly with
European officials and demonstrate that their systems and practices are
appropriate.

But legal experts say the new law could easily take on a life of its own,
because it gives individuals and private organizations the right to sue
companies that they say fail to provide adequate privacy protections.

Industry and government officials worry that independent privacy advocates
in Europe will simply invoke the letter of the law and begin taking U.S.
companies to court.

"I'm not sure the idea of creating safe harbors will be practical, because
people can still go ahead and sue a company regardless of whether the
governments reach an agreement among themselves," said Christopher Kuner, a
lawyer in Frankfurt who specializes in European information law.

In the short term, government and industry officials predict that nothing
much will happen. Most countries have yet to implement their own laws to
carry out the directive. And several countries, including Germany, have had
tough laws in place for years, and companies have found ways to deal with
the requirements.

One of the pioneering cases in Germany involved Citibank, which ran afoul
of German data-protection authorities in 1995. But since Citibank, which
has a major business presence in Germany, demonstrated to government
officials there how its system protected data in the United States, it has
operated without conflicts.

Executives of American Express Co. said they had reached similar agreements
in many countries and that they believed they could live with the new
directive. "It is a crucial issue for us, but it has not been a burden so
far," said James Tobin, an American Express spokesman in London.

John Borking, vice president of the Data Protection Authority of the
Netherlands, said, "We are not information police, and I expect that in the
whole of Europe nothing will happen."

But, added Borking, European governments will always take privacy
protection seriously.

"We are at the beginning of a new information society, and no one really
knows the outcome," he said. "But privacy and trust are important parts of
this society."

Copyright 1998 The New York Times Company

--------------------------------NOTICE:------------------------------
ISPI Clips are news & opinion articles on privacy issues from
all points of view; they are clipped from local, national and international
newspapers, journals and magazines, etc. Inclusion as an ISPI Clip
does not necessarily reflect an endorsement of the content or opinion
by ISPI. In compliance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed free without profit or payment for non-profit research
and educational purposes only.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

ISPI Clips is a FREE e-mail service from the "Institute for the Study
of Privacy Issues" (ISPI). To receive "ISPI Clips" on a regular bases
(up to 3 - 8 clips per day) send the following message  "Please
enter [Your Name] into the ISPI Clips list: [Your e-mail address]" to:
ISPIClips@ama-gi.com  .

The Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) is a small
contributor-funded organization based in Victoria, British Columbia
(Canada). ISPI operates on a not-for-profit basis, accepts no
government funding and takes a global perspective.

ISPI's mandate is to conduct & promote interdisciplinary research
into electronic, personal and  financial privacy with a view toward
helping ordinary people understand the degree of privacy they have
with respect to government, industry and each other and to likewise
inform them about techniques to enhance their privacy.

But, none of this can be accomplished without your kind and
generous financial support. If you are concerned about the erosion
of your privacy in general, won't you please help us continue this
important work by becoming an "ISPI Supporter" or by taking out
an institute Membership?

We gratefully accept all contributions:

  Less than $60    ISPI Supporter
          $60 - $99    Primary ISPI Membership (1 year)
      $100 - $300    Senior ISPI Membership (2 years)
More than $300    Executive Council Membership (life)

Your ISPI "membership" contribution entitles you to receive "The ISPI
Privacy Reporter" (our bi-monthly 12 page hard-copy newsletter in
multi-contributor format) for the duration of your membership.

For a contribution form with postal instructions please send the following
message "ISPI Contribution Form" to ISPI4Privacy@ama-gi.com .

We maintain a strict privacy policy. Any information you divulge to ISPI
is kept in strict confidence. It will not be sold, lent or given away to
any third party.









****************************************************
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with the message:
     (un)subscribe ignition-point email@address

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****************************************************
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 11:37:35 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: CIA admits drug trafficking, cover-up
Message-ID: <199810280309.TAA27153@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: CIA admits drug trafficking, cover-up
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 09:43:07 -0600
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  WorldNetDaily
http://www.WorldNetDaily.com/ronthal/981027.comlr.shtml

CIA admits drug trafficking, cover-up 
 
COPYRIGHT 1998 WorldNetDaily 
  
This isn't the CIA report you may be thinking of, the
one from last January in which that agency swore up
and down it "could find no evidence" for any
contra-drug ties. No. This is the other one --
Volume 2, dated October 8, 1998. The one in
which the CIA quietly, quietly admits it allowed
cocaine to be exported and sold to American
citizens to help fund the contras. 

Back in March, the CIA's Inspector General, Fred
Hitz, told Congress that the CIA had maintained
relationships with companies and individuals that it
knew to be involved in the drug business, and
furthermore, that the CIA had received from the
Justice Department clearance not to report any
knowledge it might have of drug-dealing by CIA
assets. Here's ample evidence for the latter at least:
random highlights from the report include "Exclusion
of Narcotics Violations from Scope of Reportable
Non-employee Crimes" -- "DoJ and CIA discussed
the issue of whether narcotics violations should be in
the list of reportable crimes and the parties arrived
at an understanding where CIA would only report
'serious, not run-of-the-mill, narcotics violations.' ...
According to Cohen, CIA's main concern was the
collection of intelligence on narcotics, not law
enforcement." There's also some Clintonesque
toe-twisting about the exact definition of "employee"
here: 

 Between August 15, 1979 and March 2,
 1982, CIA was required by the April 15,
 1979 Attorney General's guidelines under
 E.O. 12036 and HN 7-39 to report to DoJ
 any narcotics trafficking allegations relating to
 individuals, assets, or independent
 contractors who were associated with the
 Contras because assets and independent
 contractors were considered "employees" for
 crimes reporting purposes. As of March 2,
 1982, the terms of the 1982 CIA-DoJ
 Crimes Reporting MOU under E.O. 12333
 no longer required that CIA report to DoJ
 narcotics trafficking allegations regarding
 individuals, assets, or independent
 contractors associated with the Contras
 because assets and independent contractors
 were not considered "employees" for crimes
 reporting purposes. 

Note also recollections of "remarks by CATF chief
Alan Fiers (who had direct responsibility for
management of the Nicaraguan and Central
American programs) to the effect that there had
been some credible reporting of narcotics trafficking
in the Southern Front (Costa Rica)." 

In short, here's vindication for journalist Gary Webb
after all -- despite his regrettable subsequent
co-optation by and collaboration with the
conspiracy theorists of the left, who claimed the
introduction of drugs into the inner cities was itself a
deliberate racist-genocidal government policy. Want
more? Read the report; read Webb's original book
, though it's sadly marred by the Maxine Waters
introduction; read, also, Whiteout by Alexander
Cockburn and Jeffrey St. Clair, which covers not
only the CIA's drug trafficking involvement, but the
campaign to discredit Webb as well -- it's the book
the CIA doesn't want you to read. 

It really IS the economy, stupid 

In political philosophy, there's a fine line between
the visionary innovator and the cryptoutopian
crackpot. The Economic Government Group
pushes that line. Formed out of concern that "the
freedom movement was focused too closely on
devising ways to minimize the state and not enough
on developing workable alternatives to it," it works
to let the marketplace become the means by which
government is created and maintained. Its Web site,
Economic.net , carries not one but two
introductions to its occasionally loony, but
occasionally blisteringly creative ideas; I
recommend Stephen H. Foerster's good
straightforward summary of this take-no-prisoners
free-market philosophy. Fans of the book The
Sovereign Individual by J. Davidson and W.
Rees-Mogg may find affinities here. 

Capitalistic self-regulation now in progress 

Its familiar branded online seal is displayed on more
and more reputable merchants' Web sites; its own
site offers a variety of privacy resources for both
Web publishers and Web users. TRUSTe seeks to
build users' trust and confidence on the Internet and,
in doing so, accelerate growth of the Internet
industry -- all based on a strong understanding of
the fact that no single privacy principle is adequate
for all situations. Government regulation of the
Internet would likely be more rigid, ham-handed,
costly to implement, and difficult to repeal than an
industry- regulated program such as TRUSTe's. If
you sell stuff on the Internet, or know someone who
does, using and encouraging the use of TRUSTe
just might be doing Web commerce a big favor. 

The forgotten point of the military 

The relatively high levels of defense spending today
belie serious gaps in our military preparedness.
Pork-barreling is grotesquely distorting the direction
of the dollars actually appropriated to the services,
in a spirit well exemplified by the latest budget from
Congress. Meanwhile, America's armed forces are
more and more diverted into "peacekeeping" and
domestic policing, subjected to the egalitarian
schemes of social engineers, and systematically
alienated from civilian society. "The lack of a strong
military leads only to its more frequent use," former
secretary of the Navy John Lehman points out.
"America needs forces that are recruited, trained,
and directed to do not social services, not
international welfare, not peacekeeping, not drug
interdiction, but to rain fire and destruction on our
enemies if they break the peace and seek to attack
us and our close allies. ... The armed services are
not just another branch of the civil service." Lehman
warns against the misuse of the services for
diplomacy or in domestic law enforcement
(including drug interdiction). His prescription for the
rehabilitation of the military includes restoring the
warrior culture of the forces, eliminating politically
correct double standards, redressing the
civil-military imbalance, and reducing the pork.
Somebody had better start listening to him. 

E - The People 

"If your car is swallowed up by a pothole the size of
Poughkeepsie, E - The People can help you find the
person you need to tell about it," claims this
community-affairs Web service's front page. Click
on "streets," enter your address, and they'll identify
your public works commissioner -- and see that
your complaint reaches his or her office, even if that
office isn't on the Internet (they'll convert your email
to a fax). Lots of Web sites offer "easy" access to
federal or state officials, but not many provide on
this nitty-gritty local level. The site sometimes slows
down at busy times, so use patience. 

The CSPI health crackpots are at it again 

This time it's soda pop that they're warning you is
the devil's instrument. They want it banned from
schools, taxes placed on its sale, and an end put to
ads for it that target children. When are these
querulous suburban Savonarolas' fifteen minutes
going to be over? Methinks I detect a certain
cooling toward them even now: wonder of
wonders, the AP actually noticed this time that they
"offered little scientific evidence" for all their dire
claims of damaging effects. But I'm not really
optimistic; there'll always be a market for scare
stories with a moralistic cherry on top.
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------


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with the message:
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 09:37:49 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: capitalism run amuck by Korton (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810280126.TAA10565@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 09:28:56 -0500
> From: Soren 
> Subject: Re: capitalism run amuck by Korton

> is that there is a distinct difference between capitalism in a free market,
> and the kind of corporate-capitalism that the world is enmeshed in now.

corporate-capitalism? Is that church-religion? Spin doctorism.

The problem is that economics have social effects and by extension it has
responsibilities along with them. We've allowed monetary interests drive our
government instead of issues of true civil liberties.

This should not be implied that this has *ever* been true. The Constitution
starts out talking about creating a 'more perfect' union. It's a goal we
should be striving for.  The founding fathers knew they couldn't fulfill it,
they knew their children wouldn't do it. They did believe that latter
generations could achieve it. We haven't fallen from grace, and the
politicians are probably not any more corrupt, because we never had it. If
democracy fails it's because *WE* failed.

The problem with free-markets is they give up all pretext to being imperfect
and claim to be *the* answer. But at they same time it completely ignores an
entire group of aspects of business operation and asks us to ignore them too.

> The former allows for the free exchange of value based upon the participants
> understanding of that value.

That pretty much excludes Jews & Arabs, etc....

> concepts such as "natural wealth", "legal tender", "zero sum economies"

Who in their right mind compares our economy to a zero sum economy?

> 
An assumption is made that I fundamentally disagree with -- democracy
> is the holy grail of human social intercourse.  Never, in recorded

It's not the holy grail but there isn't another system with anywhere the
potential for fulfilling human desires with a minimum of abuse and overhead.

Perhaps it would be simpler to simply admit the obvious and clearly state
that we no longer have a democratic system.

> history, has democracy existed without the support of client slave states/populations. 

Well considering the world didn't pop out of a test tube but evolved over
time this argument holds little weight. The point *is* that democratic
system hold the best model we know of to date. Our particular twisted model
of it fails, that doesn't mean theory failed. It's one of the reasons I
always chuckle at those who say the fall of the CCCP meant the fall of
communism. What a maroon.

> but its a whisper in a propaganda hurricane,  The US is not a democracy,
> it is a republic. For those of you who don't know the difference; a democracy
> puts everything up for grabs, including your life, liberty and the pursuit
> of happiness, while a republic provides 'certain inalienable rights', similar
> to those  currently being alienated by the Klinton Kongressional Klan.

Um, actualy that is incorrect. A democracy is a system whereby the rules of
the system are determined by interaction of the population at the individual
level through a vote or other representitive mechanism. A republic is one
(sic) that uses a Senate (an elected body of individuals supposedly held in
high esteme, usualy two or more acting together) as that representative
mechanism. There are actualy many different mechanisms that are usable in a
democratic system.

Another thing is that in a Democracy there isn't a need for a Bill of Rights
since all participants are considered rational. The founding fathers had
useful insite when they appended that document under protest. The problem
with applying any political system is the 'shall not' and similar phrases.

What is the most interesting to me is that there is absolutely no reason to
have a President. There is nothing other than historical status quo that
individuals need to be the leaders of countries. Washington knew this when
he refused to be addressed as "Your Highness". It's a representation of
mass human psychology.

> 
to realise that under capitalism, democracy is now for sale to the
> highest

If so then it's only because we can't garner the support to pass an
amendment. If the problem is that serious and wide spread it should be put
to a vote and noted as an amendment. What simply amazes me is why neither
the pro- or con- side of the gun debate ever brings this up. This whole
issue could potentialy be solved by have the competing camps create two
amendments and submit them to the houses in the individual states.
Justification for this is pursuant (untested) in the fact that the people
are given a right to redress of grievances. Since the law prohibits
individuals from suing the government unless some weird permission is
obtained then the next best alternative would be direct submission of
potential amendments directly into the state legislatures. The people have a
right to change the law via constitutional amendment unfettered by federal
intervention or regulation. This would be a simple and expedient process with
email being what it is...

> 
is treated as progress. The world is now ruled by
> a global financial casino staffed by faceless bankers and hedge
> fund speculators who operate with a herd mentality in the shadowy
> world of global finance.


And you want to turn these folks loose in an economy with no regulation (ie
free-market)?

> 
details of our president's sex life and calls for his impeachment for
> lying
> 
about an inconsequential affair.

Ok, so next time I have to speak under oath for a traffic ticket it's ok if
I lie too? How about a murder trial? How about *your* murder trial?

Anyone who doesn't understand the implications of a class based legal system
in a democracy is lost in the ozone...

I'm gonna stop now, this is entirely too long an initial troll and I don't
have the time to go through it further.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 09:49:27 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Right of privacy
Message-ID: <199810280135.TAA10758@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: Theodor.SCHLICKMANN@BXL.DG13.cec.be
> Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 11:23:47 +0100
> Subject: Re: An amendment proposal...

> Your scope of privacy seems to be rather narrow.

True enough. I figured if I kept typing I'd probably get into trouble with
somebody. Besides I just wanted to start a discussion for a couple of days
distraction.

There are many aspects of the various characteristics and I don't pretend to
be able to imagine them in all their combinatorial splendor.

One thing I know is that the social potential for video cameras in relation
to traffic management are immense. The problem is that their potential for
abuse when coupled with other sorts of technologies is absolutely
frightening. I don't believe that potential is enough to avoid them out of
hand.

> It is not only communication.
> Privacy is also needed on public places (e.g., violated by face recognition systems), 
> at work places (e.g.,violated by telephone tapping), for your body (e.g., endangered by 
> abortion control),

No, what is needed in public places is anonymity. We want to be treated just
like everyone else. We specificaly don't want any identity.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 10:26:55 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: MIB Subpoena 3
In-Reply-To: <4.0.2.19981027112335.03c0c840@panix.com>
Message-ID: <199810280149.UAA09356@camel7.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



We've received word of a third Grand Jury subpoena in 
CJ's case. With a request to not publicize the person and 
information sought. Yep, we tried to prize it loose, citing
Gilmore's model, but no go.

Word from that person is that the trial is expected to begin 
in mid-November, which could indicate that CJ's evaluation 
will be completed shortly.

Interest in attending is picking up. We've had requests to
keep several folks informed on dates of court activity.

All we got so far is the Nov 10 date on John Gilmore's Grand
Jury subpoena and the mid-Nov trial start. So any info is most 
welcome.

BTW, has anyone seen news reports on CJ's case other than
those of Declan? If so, we'd like pointers or copies.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Webpersonals 
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 10:18:06 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: You won't want to miss this!
Message-ID: <199810280146.UAA27379@webpersonals.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Hi, CYPHERPUNKS!

We are pleased to announce that we have made several big improvements
to Webpersonals (Avenia, Womanline and Manline) since your last
visit.

The biggest and best of our upgrade, we call "Happy Hour". Our new
Happy Hour Ticket allows you to enjoy one full hour of uninterrupted
instant messaging with other members online anytime, at a big
savings.

In fact, for a limited time, we are currently offering a special
Bonus Offer which wil allow you to try Happy Hour FREE!

While our Bonus Offer lasts, you will receive FREE Happy Hour Ticket(s)
with any purchase package. If you decide to purchase now, you will not
lose your current Credits. Your new purchase package plus FREE Happy Hour
Ticket(s) will be added to your account for you to use at any time.

PLUS... our Search function is now twice as powerful! Finding that
special someone is faster, easier and more convenient with the
new "saved search" function. Residents of North America can also
search within a specified distance, allowing them to locate member
in as broad or as specific a range as they wish.

And finally, we have added two new user-friendly payment options.
Try our toll-free 1-888 fax payment line, or phone our Telephone
Payment Line with your credit card information. It's quick and
easy to order Credit and Ticket packages over fax or phone.All
charges will appear under "Interactive Media USA" on your credit
card statement.

If you have forgotten your Secret ID and password, here they are:
  Secret ID: CYPHERPUNKS
  Password:  CYPHERPU

PLEASE NOTE: You may have experienced difficulty connecting to
www.avenia.com.  We are having some technical difficulties with
this domain and ask that you use www.webpersonals.com until further
notice. Thank you.

The Staff of Webpersonals 
http://www.webpersonals.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 11:11:47 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: MIB Subpoena 3 (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810280255.UAA11299@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 20:41:07 -0500
> From: John Young 
> Subject: MIB Subpoena 3

> We've received word of a third Grand Jury subpoena in 
> CJ's case. With a request to not publicize the person and 
> information sought. Yep, we tried to prize it loose, citing
> Gilmore's model, but no go.

> Word from that person is that the trial is expected to begin 
> in mid-November, which could indicate that CJ's evaluation 
> will be completed shortly.

> All we got so far is the Nov 10 date on John Gilmore's Grand
> Jury subpoena and the mid-Nov trial start. So any info is most 
> welcome.

My subpeona date was the 18th, changed from the 19th. Something changed in
their time table. Possible pressure from some front?

> BTW, has anyone seen news reports on CJ's case other than
> those of Declan? If so, we'd like pointers or copies.

Nada.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "John" 
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 12:27:09 +0800
To: 
Subject: lotus notes id file
Message-ID: <000001be0217$6a534ce0$0a07020a@jbivins>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Hello
	I'm using lotus notes and I have a big problem. I have a id file with no
password. How can I get a password for it or reset it. Is there some type of
utility or something someone knows of?I have been told that I'm out of luck
unless I have the original.


John...






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Dave Birch 
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 06:58:54 +0800
Subject: Re: dbts: Cryptographic Dog Stocks, The Dirigible Biplane, and   Sending the Wizards Back to Menlo Park
Message-ID: <1302592959-147251835@hyperion.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Vin McLellan said Bob Hettinga said

>>It's biometric
>>*identity* which is the problem

Actually, I would have thought that biometric revocation is the problem!

Cheers,
Dave Birch.

=== mailto:daveb@hyperion.co.uk ===== http://www.hyperion.co.uk/ ===




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Renegade 
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 22:16:58 +0800
To: 
Subject: Re: Airline ID Checking (was: RE: your mail)
In-Reply-To: <19981027190715.184.rocketmail@send101.yahoomail.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981027223012.007bd4e0@texoma.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 12:44 PM 10/27/1998 -0700, X wrote:
>Does anyone know what the airlines do with the info they collect off the ID?
>Are they just noting whether the names match, or is it more sinister?

This has nothing to do with security. They are checking to make sure the
name matchs the ticket. Airlines like to think their tickets are
non-transferable, and they use this method to make sure john doe did not
buy the ticket from joe shmoe.

-Renegade




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 15:26:02 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM>
Subject: Re: EU Privacy Directive
In-Reply-To: <19981019195132.27759.rocketmail@send1e.yahoomail.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981027225259.00b81e10@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 09:39 AM 10/20/98 +0200, Theodor.SCHLICKMANN@bxl.dg13.cec.be wrote:
>Those who are affected in the first place are US companies who
>are used to collect and process personal data from their customers
>without any embarrassment. They will be excluded from
>the European market, if they do not follow European Data
>Protection rules. 
>
>Until now the US goverment has decided to leave this matter 
>to self regulation. However, US industry did not manage to 
>come up with an appropriate codex. 

The big problem in the US isn't the government's failure to
tell big companies what protection to provide for their transactions -
it's their insistence on adding more and more requirements 
that businesses, especially banks, and local governments,
collect and retain information that makes data correlation simpler,
and creation of database systems that collect more information.
The most common are the requirement for SSNs as a tax-collection ID
for banks and employers, and the use of the SSN for Medicare
making it simplest for medical insurance companies to use it as an ID.
Then of course there's the near-universal requirement for
collecting SSNs in return for drivers' licenses,
and "deadbeat dad databases" that require employers to register new employees
in government databases, even those of us who are neither dads nor deadbeats.
Once all your transactions have personal identifiers on them,
it's nearly trivial to track everything that you do.
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 08:14:36 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Using a password as a private key.
Message-ID: <199810272341.AAA20410@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



RedRook@yahoo.com writes:
> Assymetic crypto systems such as Diffie-Hellman, El-Gamel, and DSS,
> allow the private key to be a randomly chosen number. But, as a cute
> hack, instead of using a random number, for the private key, you could
> use a hash of the User Name, and a password.
> 
> Doing so allows the users to generate their private key on demand.
> They don't have to store the private key, and if they want to work on
> a another computer, they don't need to bring along a copy.  Has any one
> tried this? Is there existing software that does this? Any comments on
> the security of such a scheme?  The only draw back that I can think of
> is the potential lack of randomness in the key. If the user chooses a
> bad password, it would be possible to brute force the public key.

You can accomplish the same thing by encrypting your private key (including
RSA) with a passphrase and publishing it.

Because of the problems with passphrase bruting, it probably only
makes sense to do this with a machine-generated passphrase which has
guaranteed entropy.  Something like: "Aarhous mocrader Fals paca rate
portion wiserustingned" has a guaranteed > 128 bits of entropy, which
should be enough for most purposes.  Probably with an hour's study most
people could memorize such a passphrase.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 17:06:06 +0800
To: RedRook 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981028012129.008334d0@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



    --
James Donald's "Crypto Kong" system http://catalog.com/jamesd/Kong/ does this.
It uses Diffie-Hellman and ElGamal crypto over Elliptic Curves,
so it can get away with relatively short keys, 240-255 bits.
The secret key is hashed from your passphrase (and/or a keyfile*) 
Your public key is generated from the secret key and a generator.

Because the public keys can be short, there are some real conveniences.
You don't need to distribute big clunky keys in a keyserver;
255 bits is just 43 characters of base-64, so you can put it in 
your mail signatures and on your business cards.

Kong takes an interesting approach to key certification and signatures -
it doesn't use the "True Name" model with a Certificate Authority Trusted 
Third Party Subject To Many Government Regulations certifying that
the person who has this key has that True Name.
Instead, you sign messages, and it keeps a database of signed messages from people,
and you can compare a message you have with a message you've received 
previously to see if it's signed by the same key, and you can 
send encrypted messages to the person who sent you a previous message.  
If you want to do the equivalent of signing a key,
you just sign a message including someone else's message, 
maybe adding commentary (which is hard to do in PGP.)  Here's an example:
	-- 2
	Dear Carol
	I've known Bob for a long time, and he's probably not an FBI plant.
	Here's a copy of his business card.  Alice
    	--
	Bob Dobbs, Sales, PO Box 140306, Dallas TX 75214    
	http://subgenius.com/bigfist/pics2/logoart/dobbs3x45.GIF
	--digsig
         Bob
	F9KBGIfyizpoyo8i8NS/Dqe/eP4WVNcXcRJuS14QPXn
	N9Cm/pDw8sgVDMj8f3upNmp1pSE3rSj0atQuF7Jt
	4RgxEDpUxK1DVzBejpH3qqvrqcY2+8M+pSXFB0LLG
	--digsig
         Alice
	9Xjp1N+QDtXR9Mw1S0gJTnwliGM3rQpuzdogeqOLqii
	ckd5NlB2nGrQHe4TSMSDd791WEq64XCotsYG0oiZ
	4W3Yi4QBCgYC0SnORJFesTOcbCsmGsEnXZRCVrsou

and you can go compare Alice's signature with the one
she gave you at the Prop 215 Bake Sale.

On the other hand, "work on another computer" is a dangerous phrase.
If it's another of _your_ computers, fine, but otherwise
how do you trust that the copy of Kong or PGP or whatever
you're running is the real thing, or that it's not saving your passphrase
from the keyboard driver, or all the usual threats.
Those threats are somewhat true with your own computer,
but there you not only have some control over the machine,
you know that if Bad Guys have cracked it, your data is hosed anyway :-)

[ * The Kong keyfile of might-as-well-be-random bits which gives you entropy, 
and makes the system usable in environments where passphrases aren't convenient,
such as unattended batch mail decryption done in remailers.
You can either use just the passphrase, use just the keyfile, or use both.]

At 01:53 PM 10/27/98 -0800, RedRook  wrote, approximately,
>Asymmetric crypto systems such as Diffie-Hellman, El-Gamal, and DSS, 
>allow the private key to be a randomly chosen number. But, as a cute hack, 
>instead of using a random number, for the private key, you could use 
>a hash of the User Name, and a password. 
>
>Doing so allows the users to generate their private key on demand.
>They don't have to store the private key, and if they want to work on
>another computer, they don't need to bring along a copy.
>Has any one tried this? Is there existing software that does this? Any
>comments on the security of such a scheme? 
>The only draw back that I can think of is the potential lack of
>randomness in the key. 

    --digsig
         Bill Stewart 
     3k3eg3jOiy57hhibcg9SkKVwkCUw7ivtVjJBm2E0WIC
     1IidMTkWR0QwVsOPeyEgQ7wdKKVtka99jziuLfOs
     4VIpwv6kNvAPJdk49JEtprvCnxTBrNSyViHqgxqGc




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 09:49:20 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199810280113.CAA28308@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



[Two letters received by fax on 27 October 1998]

----------

[Letter 1, cover and 16 pages]

8 September 1998

Cover Sheet

Declan

The Good News is that I have a pen to write
with, due to the Free Enterprise System being
alive & well within the Prison System.

The Bad News is that Micro$oft Pens (TM)
controls 95% of the market...

I am hoping you can share as much of this
communique as possible with the CPUNX,
since my chain is constantly getting yanked
in different directions, making outside contact
sporatic & unreliable.

Feel free to reserve for your own use any
of the enclosed information you need for your
own journalistic purposes.

I will try to reach you by phone (automated
collect-call system requiring touch-tone on
your end).

Thanks for the Mags,

                     CJ Parker

ps# My prison cell mirror now reads,
"Chocolate Skelter." (Brownie & Milk)

------------------------------------------------

[FLORENCE NUTLY NEWS - "I'M HERE BECAUSE I
believe that the KONTROLLERS are taking
actions that create obstacles to the freedom
and openess of the Internet. ~Truth Glaser]

Declan,

Looks like you may be receiving the *only* copy
of the Florence Nutly News, since I have, up
until now, been writing on paper towels and
medicine cups, using combinations of blood,
sperm and chocolate (two of which are in short
supply) for ink, and I will soon be headed
to Nutly News Head (pardon the pun) Quarters
in Springfield, Missouri, for Rewiring of
my Brain Circuity.

Although I was well-prepared for my
arrest - wearing my "Linda Lou & the Drifters"
T-shirt, as promised, having spent several days
getting Baby Truth Mongrel settled into a [illegible
--------------]: grabbing my Evidence Bag
[illegible ---] two containers of medication
[illegible ---] the knock on the door on the
other side of town - I found myself totally
unprepared for the experience of being thrown
into a KafkaEsque KonsPiracy [illegible].

I will admit to having told a few whoppers
in my time, mostly on fishing trips, but
my arm cannot stretch far enough to
describe the Immensity of The Plot (TM) to
crap on every right and freedom that most
Americans 'think' they have, in order to bring
me - like a Chained Mad Dog - to a Governmental
Pre Destined End at the hands of the American
Judicial and Prison System.

Although I have not yet lost my mind
(I predict by Thursday at the latest), and I
know that the Whole World (TM) is not
*really* involved in The Plot (TM) against me,
everything since my arrest has proceeded
as if this were exactly the case.

I shit you not...

A thread on the CPUNX Distrubed Male
LISP that I followed with interest had to do with
the Ratio of Consciously Conspiring Cocksuckers to
Robotic Moronic Techtronics in the current
Death March to Analog Digital Battan.

i.e. Hettinga's (?) tagline = "Do not
attribute to conspiracy that which can be
explained by stupidity..." (~misquote?)

As my ^ Pre Destined (<- Cro-Magnon Editing)^ 
Imprisonment and my March
Toward Justice began to unfold, I was at
first struck by the banal predictability
of the Dehumanizing <-> Brainwashing that
takes place as the Identity and Persona of
an Individual is "Committed to The Custody Of"
the Kontrollers (TM).

I watched as the concerns of Outsiders
Becoming Insiders switched from which
Telco offered the best services? -> when am I
allowed to use the phone?, etc., ad infinitum,
until an Inside Lifer being transferred
from a different prison asked only a single
question upon his arrival - a question
which strikes terror into the heart and mind,
(of the Outside Lifer), who know that, stripped
of the Toys & Trappings (TM) that the Kontrollers
"allow" them to have to distract them from
the reality of their true status in life, there is
really only a single question that truly
matters, whether one is moving to an Insider
Feeding Pen or an Outside Feeding Pen:

   "How is the food?"

Paris or Auchwitz - Danube or Dachau,
Just tell me one thing, Fritz - "How is the chow?"

The KONSCIOUSLY KONSPIRING KRIMINAL
element of the TREASURY Agents was just
as predictable as the mechanical, fixed cogs
of The System Machinery.

- Charging me with a crime that would
  enable them to put a bug in the ear of
  every human element of the Judicial
  [illegible] System from the Judge -> the
  Prison Guard - "This man is using
  his writing and the Internet as a
  weapon to murder government
  officials and authority figures (such
  as yourself!)."

- Telling the prison medical staff things
  designed to label me as a violent, psychotic
  [???]-freak.

- Going through the motion of 'discovering'
  evidence that they were already full aware
  of as a result of previous legal and
  illegal surveillance & investigation.

"[Illegible ------------------------------]"

The previous, of course, is merely an
indication that the Conscious Conspiracies
of Analog Human Goals & Desire for
Power/Control is present "alongside of"
the "Stupidity" of a mechanized version of
digitized cogs designed to automatically
categorize, shape and standardize those
individual Elements & Entities that the
Puppet Masters place on Conveyor Belts leading
to the Educational System, Employment System,
Judicial System, etc.

The observation, made by various of the
CypherPunks on the LISP, as well as portions
of Space Aliens Hide My Drugs, which dealt
with the intimations of coercion and
brainwashing manipulation in the
treatment of Jim Bell at the hands of the
Justice System, were partly conjecture
due to a lack of detail on Bell's full
situation & treatment.

As a result of my research on the subject,
my previous life experience, and my 
current situation, I feel semi-qualified
to express the opinion that I am being
subjected to CLASSIC/TEXTBOOK BRAINWASHING
TECHNIQUES, combining physical deprivation
and disorientation with the witholding of
proper medical treatment and physical
coercion to accept 'new' diagnoses and
'new' medication designed to meet the needs
of the Prison & Judicial System, rather than
to meet my own medical needs.

e.g. - Denying me clothing, bedding, personal
items, services available to other inmates,
etc. offering me access to my reading glasses
if I stop exhibiting symptoms of Tourette
Syndrome, for which I have been diagnosed
and treated by a variety of physicians and
specialists for years.

I will not go into the 2-3 pages of notes I
have made documenting the above, since nabbed,
like a whiner, and Lord Knows, I have abused
myself more over the years through my own
craziness and stupidity, than those fuckers
could ever hope to accomplish.

The point I wold like to make to the CypherPunks

is that the TOTALITY of the persecution, oppression,
censorship, conspiracy - or whatever you
want to label it - that is being directed toward
me is GREATGER THAN > the Sum of the Robotic Moronic
Techtronics PLUS the Consciously Conspiring CockSuckers

  [This is even 'after' taking into account my
  spitting in a US Treasury Agent's eye and
  writing 'Helter Skelter' in my own blood
  on a prison mirror.]

I find myself sitting in a prison cell in
Middle America, looking at a Prison Commissary
sheet which confirms my suspicion that the
prison meals are designed to market a
variety of condiments, such as mayo and
picante sauce, to the most Captive
Consumers of all.

I find myself reflecting on the similarities
between a friend, whose 'Health Coverage' does
not seem to apply to any disease he might get, and
to my own experience of having Prison Medical
Personnel state, "We don't have those medications
in here," and knowing, instinctively, that
I am just going to have to 'choose' a disease
they had medication for, or just go
fuck myself.

I find myself reflecting on the
Techno BioSemiotic Evolution of
a self-sustaining Corrections CORPORATION
of America system which has Little Johnny
hustling to sell more Crack, so that his Daddy
can buy condiments to make his prison food
more palatable, eventually getting busted
and sent to prison, putting his younger
brother, Raoul, in the Corrections CORPORATION
food chain as a Crack salesperson & future Inmate/
Consumer.

I find myself peering down a Tunnel
Through Time and seeing that the "Dark Forces"
spoken of in the 'The Xenix Chainsaw Massacre', in
Part I of The True Story of the InterNet, were,
and are, just as real as the "Dark Clouds
Gathering Over Europe" during the Rise of the
Third Reich - with the Dark Clouds being formed
by the Industrial BioSemiotic Progeny of the
Marriage of the Rumbling of the Tanks with the
Shouting and Cheering of the Masses at the
Nazi Rallies - and with the Dark Forces being
formed by the Technological BioSemiotic
Progeny of the Marriage of the Silence of the
Computers with the Silence of the Lambs, as
they wait quietly in line to fill out their
local supermarket 'Nickle Off On A Can of Beans
Discount Card,' listing their InterNet Email
address so that the Kontrollers can use the new
J. Edgar Digital Hoover Vacume Technology to
suck the Sheeple's brains onto the Digital
Cattle Cars, taking them behind the Electro Magnetic
Curtain, where they can be fed a bland diet
of Brain food designed to sell them condiments,
such as HBO and the TIME Digital Supplement,
as Prisoners of the Electronic Corrections Corporation
of Planet Terra.

Whoa, Trigger!

Every time I get on a roll, I seem to
roll a little cloer to Springfield...

Anyway, for anyone interested in the status
of my legal situation, I believe my status
can be best described by the use of a variety
of expletives which don't have a snowball's
chance in Hades of making it past the Censor,
but which involves bending over and
touching one's ankles.

The problem, of course, is that the
GRAND PLAY OF JUSTICE has already been
written, and there is no role available for
the Defendant.

The Problem (TM) is that I, unlike those
who have brought the charges against me,
want to take this case to trial.

At my original court appearance, I elected
to represent myself.

The Judge took it upon herself to appoint
a Public Defender to "assist" me. I immediately
translated "assist" to "Sell You Down The
Fucking River!" (Mentally envisioning the
PD as "supporting" me by having me stand on
his shouldeer as the noose was placed around
my neck.)

Just before my second court appearance
the PD introduced himself and told me it was a
pretty routine "Motion to Remove" hearing/
"Identity" hearing, and that I would then be
sent to Seattle.

I informed him that if they WANTED me to go
to Seattle immediately, then I wanted to fight it.
The PD left, and returned later with the news
that the Feds had just sprung a "Complaint" on him
that he was unaware of and the he would need
a couple of weeks to deal with it. I had him
read a short portion of the Complaint and, recognizing
it as identical to a recent 'gift' I had received,
I told the PD that, since the Feds now seemed to
want a delay, that I was ready to proceed.

In court the PD informed the Judge that
*he* needed time to "study the Complaint" (run up
his bill) and that *I* had trouble following
his logic (wanted to proceed with what he
had already told me was a routine, 'slam-
dunk for the government' matter anyway).

So, everyone compared their Tee Times
with local golf courses and decided that I
would rot in Jail for two weeks while they
tired to correct their slice.

Of course, the day before the two weeks
is up, I receive a letter the Judge's
Public Defender Bum Buddy, containing
Order 98-02824M, stating that "The defense
had made an oral motion..." (Funny, I thought
that 'I" was the Defense) ... "for psychiatric
evaluation ... asserting that the Defendant
cannot communicate/particiapte..."

In other words, the lawyer (whom Shakespeare
would shoot first) paddled over to the Judge to
have me shipped off to Dr. Frankenstein's
Funny Farm, while I, upstream from
Tucson (with 'no paddle') am setting and
wondering how the Grand Canyon State produces
so many Amateur Medical Genius' who are
able to perform an in depth medical diagnosis  of
an individual after speaking with them for
lkess than five minutes - total.

  [The Prison Medical Staff spending half of that time
  in a room full of people carrying Walkie Talkies,
  asking me whether or not I heard voices...]

However, if your Heart of Hearts is tempted
to Bleed Purple Piss for me, stuff a rag in it,
because I've been telling people form the beginning
that the GuberMint would be sending me off
for mental ReClassfication.

The Bottom Line (TM) is that the Complaint
seems to amount to - once the smoke & mirrors
are cleared away - one Entertainment BOT
and one anonymous email 'authenticated' by
what I suspect will trun out to be a a
Communal 'Magic Circle' PGP digital
signature.

(Worst Case Scenario - I will be forced,
in open court, for the first time ever,
to reveal "How I Broke PGP (TM.")

Seriously, though (and I've got an
Ocean Front Jail Cell in Florence, AZ),
I expect that the GooberMint needs me
to be 'crazy' enough for my writing, facts
and opinions to be dismissed, yet 'sane'
enough to be criminally liable for my actions.

I am certain that the employees of "a
suitable facility for psychiatric examination
as designated by the Bureau of Prions" know
exactly what is expected of them.

BTW, the 'Dead Lucky AP-Bot' received just
three votes - for Rabid Wombat, Toto, and for
Donald Duck (If I remember correctly).

Three targets - three years in jail.
Sounds fair to me...

I *know* my proper role in this Dark
Comedy.

After a suitable period of 'Attitude Adjustment',
I'm supposed to accept whatever offer of
'leniency' the Feds feel generous enough
to offer me.

The problem, of course, is that not only
am I a spritual Channeler of the BIG FUCK YOU!,
but I am also cursed with an affliction,
Tourette Syndrome, which often causes me
to implusively blurt out...The TRUTH (TM).

The PROBLEM (TM) is that I am a CypherPunk,
and I would rather spend 3 years sitting naked
in a cold, hard prison cell, than to help
bring the world one step closer to where
there aren't any CypherPunks to piss all over
themselves and each other - and even on
self-righteous, high-minded government
officials, from time to time.

The REAL PROBLEM (TM) is that, ultimately,
I am still naive and/or hopeful enough to believe
that there still exist, [illegible ------------]
for an ordinary citizen to slip through the
cracks in a Statist/Robotic Judicial System
into a Time/Space Continuum where Jimmy Stewart
wouldn't be disbarred for being 'too [illegible].'

I have no doubt that the IRS/Government can,
as has been intimated, "put the hammer down"
on myself, my family and my friends if they
choose to do so.

My only response to this is that, if this is so and
if there is no true recourse available for the common
citizen, then the difference between living in an
Inside prison versus an Outside prison is
mostly Illusory anyway.

My poor Sainted Father, who would have
been justified in strangling me in my crib,
had he realized the grief I would cause him over
the years, wrote to me in prison expressing his
worry that perhaps my present situation was the
result of him having failed me in so many ways
over the course of the last few years.

I replied that my Father *was* responsible
for my current situation, as a result of being
the World's Most Wonderful Father (TM) and making
it possible for me to spend the last few years
doing exactly what I really and truly wanted
to do.

After my next court appearance, I may be
mentally & financially broken, slobbering and
drooling on myself, but I *will* be smiling...

The Bible taught me what to expect as
a result of telling The Truth (TM), and a
short story, "[???} By Niggel," taught me
what to expect as a result of being the Author...

But I'm the TruthMonger, so it's the only
dance there is...

(Bop Shoo Bop, Bopper-Bopper-Shoo-Bop).

ToTo
CYPHERPUNKS CULT OF ONE
"Close Ranks! Every WoMan for HimOrHer Self!"
ARMY OF DOG
"ANARCHY - Together We Can Make It Happen!"
CIRCLE OF EUNUCHS
"He Who Shits On The Road Will Meet Flies Upon His Return"

[End Letter 1]

----------

[Cover note Letter 2; no date]

Declan,

ToTo -> -> Funny Farm

Yours is only address handy

Please fwd -> LJ Dowling -> Judge Fiora
       -> CPUNX List

Thanx

Toto

----------------------------------------------------------

Letter 2 is four mostly illegible pages of what appears 
to be scatalogical humor addressed to the Arizona magistrate,
Nancy Fiora, beginning:

  Yo Nancy!

  Are you Just As Ignorant As Snot (TM),
  a Callous Cunt (TM) or a Konciously Konspiring
  Kocksucker (TM)?

  If you are Just As Ignorant As Snot (TM),
  that might explain why you actually went
  through the motions of giving an order for
  me to receive proper medical treatment
  not understanding that Order From A Skirt (TM)
  in Arizona apparently doesn't mean Jack Shit
  to prison officials.

  If this is the case, could you please arrange
  for a Male Judge to issue the same orders and
  see if that clears up the problem?

Then 4 pages of illegible text with a few bits readable 
on withheld medical treatment leading to the risk of 
ingrown toenails, Big Hairy Butt (TM), and Fresh 
>From The ClueServer (TM) advice, with this closing:

  (You'll have to figure this part out without the
  pictures to help this time - moving your
  lips while you read might help...)

  I write this under the influence of the
  Drugs given to me by the physicians in whose
  care you have placed me.

  Some Fucking Improvement (TM), eh?

  On our next date (in court), you might want to
  choose a wash & wear Robe, since I could be
  drooling & slobbering a lot.

  Loves and Kisses
  [???] Psychotic Killer To Be Named Later.

[End Letter 2]




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: advisor@compuserve.com
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 22:59:11 +0800
To: 
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199810281358.FAA13997@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



10/28/98

Y2K  Solution!
8  Pine  Circle  Dr., Silicon  Valley, Calif. USA

OTC  Company  "TCFG"  21 st. Century  Frontier  Group  has
through  several  members  of  their  administrative  research
department  leaked  vital  information  about  their  companies  
efforts.

Everyone  was  tight  lipped  and  interviews  were  refused,
and  through  un-named  sources  we  have  learned  that  the  
technology  and  software  solution  are  in  the  process  of  
being  patented!

In over  1640  trials, using  various  data  systems  the  use  
of  the  new  technology  and  software  solved  the  Y2K
problem  100%  of  the  time. 

This  small  publicly  traded  company  "TCFG"  which  is  just
3  years  old  is  through  various  sources  now  negotiating
with  the  "Big  Boys"!

"TCFG"  the  letters  to  look  for!


























 
 
 
 
 
 
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Joel O'Connor" 
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 22:30:17 +0800
To: John 
Subject: Re: lotus notes id file
Message-ID: <19981028132659.15316.rocketmail@send101.yahoomail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Sorry guy, no gettingout of dodge on this one.  There are no
utilities, no programs, no way out.  The only way to do this is to
copy the "mail file" which will be in the c:\notes\data directory and
blow away the id and recreate it.  Then after this, copy the mail file
back into the data directory.  This will recreate your desktop view
with the original folders and messages that you had.  Otherwise,
you're screwed.




---John  wrote:
>
> Hello
> 	I'm using lotus notes and I have a big problem. I have a id file
with no
> password. How can I get a password for it or reset it. Is there some
type of
> utility or something someone knows of?I have been told that I'm out
of luck
> unless I have the original.
> 
> 
> John...
> 
> 
> 
> 

==
Ogre bounces like sonar. . .Peace.
                  Ogre

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "David E. Smith" 
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 18:38:55 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Yet Another letter from Toto
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



This letter, pornmarked 23 October 1998 from Springfield Missouri, has
some good requests and the usual style of Toto-esque humor that we've
all grown accustomed to. I hope I got the drug names spelled right, or at
least as close to it as he did, because I know about some of these drugs
and it sounds serious.

(begin letter)

Dave,
I need some medical info, and Attila
has shared some excellent material in the
past with me, so I was hoping he might be
able to send me Information Sheets on a few
medications.
(e.g. # Uses/Side Effects/Precuations/Interactions/etc.)

I'd like info on Zoloft, Zestril, Lithium, & Deprecote (?sp) - orange-ish
liquid capsules - ... and Tegretol and Respiradahl (?sp)

Also, if he could find any InterNet material
on Dr. Ruth Braun's current Tourette/Rage work,
or similar info, I would appreciate him
sending it to me.

If I get much more Government `Help,' I'm
going to be Dead, soon...

(I think if you tell the shrinks here that you
feel suicidal they handcuff your hands
behind your back, stand you on the toilet,
and suspend you from the light fixture
by a rope around your neck - so that you
don't hurt yourself, eh?)

I'm trying to produce as much CypherSpam
as possible while in Prison, so that the
CypherPunks computers don't get Dusty & Moldy
from sitting around with nothing to do.

(I figure my best chance at being released
from Prison is if the Manufacturers of 
Keys petition the GovernMint in order to
restore falling sales.
"If it saves the life of a single innocent KillFile...")

I'm learning a Trade at #9...
Cuckoo Clock!

Later Dude,
Toto

(end letter)

...dave




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 22:51:24 +0800
To: 
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <989.283923.242667 monitor@millenium.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



                                                         10/28/98

Y2K  Solution!
8  Pine  Circle  Dr., Silicon  Valley, Calif.

OTC  Company  "TCFG"  21 st. Century  Frontier  Group  has
through  several  members  of  their  administrative  research
department  leaked  vital  information  about  their  companies  
efforts...

Everyone  was  tight  lipped  and  interviews  were  refused,
and  through  un-named  sources  we  have  learned  that  the  
technology  and  software  solution  are  in  the  process  of  
being  patented!

In over  1640  trials, using  various  data  systems  the  use  
of  the  new  technology  and  software  solved  the  Y2K
problem  100%  of  the  time. 

This  small  publicly  traded  company  "TCFG"  which  is  just
3  years  old  is  through  various  sources  now  negotiating
with  the  "Big  Boys"!

"TCFG"  the  letters  to  look  for.....




 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Jon 'tex' Boone" 
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 20:24:49 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: MIB Subponeas
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19981026144314.038c6020@rboc.net>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Tim May  writes:
>
> * What about lawyer expenses? I know the line about "If you cannot afford one,
>   one will be appointed for you," but I've never understood what test of
>   "afford" is being used. If called before a grand jury, will they pay for a
>   lawyer? (E.g., if I decide I can't "afford" to pay some shyster to interpret
>   their legalese into ordinary English.)  (I assume there is some nonsense
>   about indigence, but can they force someone to prove he has no money?  What
>   if he money, but he needs that $5000 for school tuition more than he needs
>   to give it to Johnny Cockroach for a day's worth of shystering?)

  Tim,

    It is my understanding, from my brother in law (who is a practicing attorney
    in Pennsylvania) and from my sister's participation in a case in Texas that
    one does not have the right to have legal counsel present at a Grand Jury
    session.

-- 
--------------------------------------------------
Jon 'tex' Boone            Senior Network Engineer
ISC Networking          University of Pennsylvania
tex@isc.upenn.edu                   (215) 898-2477




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 22:09:37 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Forwarded mail...
Message-ID: <199810281330.HAA12754@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: Theodor.SCHLICKMANN@BXL.DG13.cec.be
> Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 10:04:17 +0100
> Subject: Re: Right of privacy

> It is important to set clear guidlines and codes of practice for such
> technological innovations, well in advance of the digital revolution
> making new and unforseen opportunities to collate, analyze, recognise
> and store such visual images. 

How does one pass laws to regulate something that doesn't exist yet?

> The attitude to CCTV camera networks varies greatly in the European Union,
> from the position in Denmark where such cameras ar banned by law to the
> position in the UK, where you can find one of the most advanced CCTV network
> coverage in Europe and where the issue of regulation and control have been
> perhaps more developed then anywhere else.

Are there any discussions about this dichotomy and how it came to pass?
Something that asks the question of why they chose such widely seperate
approaches? I would personaly guess the British have gotten a little
paranoid they're set for pay-back-time since their empire's been crumbling
for 200 years. I'm much less familiar with Dannish history (post-WWII) and
how they developed this respect for Big Brother and its potential.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: concerned@aol.com
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 01:22:11 +0800
To: 
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199810281640.IAA15426@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



10/28/98

Y2K  Solution!
8  Pine  Circle  Dr., Silicon  Valley, Calif. USA

OTC  Company  "TCFG"  21 st. Century  Frontier  Group  has
through  several  members  of  their  administrative  research
department  leaked  vital  information  about  their  companies  
efforts.

Everyone  was  tight  lipped  and  interviews  were  refused,
and  through  un-named  sources  we  have  learned  that  the  
technology  and  software  solution  are  in  the  process  of  
being  patented!

In over  1640  trials, using  various  data  systems  the  use  
of  the  new  technology  and  software  solved  the  Y2K
problem  100%  of  the  time. 

This  small  publicly  traded  company  "TCFG"  which  is  just
3  years  old  is  through  various  sources  now  negotiating
with  the  "Big  Boys"!

"TCFG"  the  letters  to  look  for.......

























 
 
 
 
 
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Steve Schear 
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 00:38:08 +0800
To: bill.stewart@pobox.com
Subject: Re: UK police chase crooks on CCTV (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199810211322.IAA03036@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>>We need a law or court ruling pretty quickly in the US that sets the
>>standard that a group of people have no more or less rights than an
>>individual. This will required LEA's to provide probable cause prior to any
>>actions against groups of people (such as this).
>
>Ain't gonna happen - are you kidding?  If there is a ruling like that,
>it'll be done in some way that restricts citizen rights rather than
>expanding them, or expands police powers rather than restricting them.
>It's already legal for cops to hang around street corners watching for
>suspicious activities or suspicious people, and all video recognition
>technology does is increase their effectiveness and speed at doing things
>they already are allowed to do.
>
>Unfortunately, I'm being increasingly forced to take the David Brin
>position of
>"Cameras are cheap, get used to it, just make sure we have more cameras
>pointing at the cops than they have pointing at us, and make sure
>the cameras the government has are citizen-accessible as well."

An alternative is a new religion, The First Cypherpunk Church, whose
members are admonished to wear identiy hiding (oops, I mean modesty
enhancing) garb, like arab women. Then we can all go around anonymously in
public. Of course, you'll stick out like a sore thumb and may look like a
fool unless enough parishoners join, but....

--Steve





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Harvey Rook (Exchange)" 
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 01:41:22 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Speed records, and brute force state of the art.
Message-ID: <2FBF98FC7852CF11912A0000000000010D19AD2B@DINO>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>From the New York Times...

WASHINGTON-The Energy Department will take delivery on Wednesday of what the
Government says is the world's fastest computer, capable of a peak
performance of 3.88 trillion calculations, or teraflops, a second. 

Just to simplify things, let's assume that 1 flop == 1 decryption. I know
that's not true, but it's very close, and it's certainly less than one order
of magnitude off.

So, with this assumption how long does it take to break various key sizes?

56 bits -- 2^56 / 3.88E12 = 5.2 hours
64 bits -- 2^64 / 3.88E12 = 55 days
80 bits -- 2^80 / 3.88E12 = 9873 years
128 bits -- 2^128 / 3.88E12 = 2.8E18 years.

And now you know.

Harv.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: watcher@freeyellow.com
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 19:16:11 +0800
To: 
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <989.283923.429657 watcher@freeyellow.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



                                                         10/28/98

Y2K  Solution!
8  Pine  Circle  Dr., Silicon  Valley, Calif.

OTC  Company  "TCFG"  21 st. Century  Frontier  Group  has
through  several  members  of  their  administrative  research
department  leaked  vital  information  about  their  companies  
efforts...

Everyone  was  tight  lipped  and  interviews  were  refused,
and  through  un-named  sources  we  have  learned  that  the  
technology  and  software  solution  are  in  the  process  of  
being  patented!

In over  1640  trials, using  various  data  systems  the  use  
of  the  new  technology  and  software  solved  the  Y2K
problem  100%  of  the  time. 

This  small  publicly  traded  company  "TCFG"  which  is  just
3  years  old  is  through  various  sources  now  negotiating
with  the  "Big  Boys"!

"TCFG"  the  letters  to  look  for.....




 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Hal Lockhart 
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 00:10:30 +0800
To: Steve Bellovin 
Subject: Re: log files (was: Re: dbts: Cryptographic Dog Stocks, The Dirigible Biplane, and Sending the Wizards Back to Menlo Park )
In-Reply-To: <199810262226.RAA12688@postal.research.att.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19981028093825.00a3f2d0@pop.bos.platinum.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 05:26 PM 10/26/98 -0500, Steve Bellovin wrote:

>Leaving aside the rest of this discussion, Vin touches on a point that
>I think has been ignored by some:  operations demand log files.  That
>is -- and I'm doffing my security hat here and donning the hat of someone
>who has been running computer systems and networks for 30+ years --
>when I'm trying to manage a system and/or troubleshoot a problem,
>I *want* log files, as many as I can get and cross-referenced 17 different
>ways.  This isn't a security issue -- most system administrator headaches are
>due to the "benign indifference of the universe", or maybe to Murphy's Law
>-- but simply a question of having enough information to trace the
>the perturbations caused to the system by any given stimulus.
>
>The more anonymity, and the more privacy cut-outs, the harder this is.

With respect to Steve's vast experience on this subject, I must disagree.
Managing and tracking systems and networks does require monitoring and
logging of traffic.  However, the information of interest is confined to
the headers.  There is no need to examine the body of user messages for
these purposes.  Even less would their be a need to "crack" some kind of
bearer token. (Of course this implies that crypto should be applied as far
up the stack as possible, ideally in the application. But that is another
debate.)

I hear you saying, "but what if the guy is trying to break into my system."
 I would argue, that if you are using strong cryptographic authentication
(whether his identity can be mapped to a human being or not) then either 1)
he will fail, in which case you don't care or 2) he will succeed, in which
case he must have used some technique like stealing a key which cannot be
detected by monitoring.

I raise this point, because I see it as part of a current trend to resist
stong security measures in preference to weak ones.  The current industry
facination with weak measures, like firewalls and intrusion detection
systems has caused some people to resist the introduction of strong
measures, such as cryptographic authentication and data protection.  The
most popular example of this is the foolish practice of putting an SSL
server, with its vital server private key, outside the firewall in a DMZ.  

But I have also heard system administrators protest the introduction of
cryptographic solutions because some current half measure will no longer
work.  There are even misguided individuals who have proposed putting
master decryption keys at vulnerable locations like border routers, so that
messages can be inspected in the fly.

Like many people here, I live in the practical world and read dbs for
serious amusement (see Darwin on Malthus).  However in both worlds I spend
a lot of time trying to distingush the sound from the foolish.

Regards,

Hal

====================================================================
Harold W. Lockhart Jr.               PLATINUM technology
Chief Technical Architect            8 New England Executive Park
Email: Harold.Lockhart@platinum.com  Burlington, MA 01803 USA
Voice: (781)273-6406                 Fax: (781)229-2969
====================================================================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Hal Lockhart 
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 23:52:57 +0800
To: Vin McLellan 
Subject: Re: dbts: Cryptographic Dog Stocks, The Dirigible Biplane, and   Sending the Wizards Back to Menlo Park
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19981028095039.00a435fc@pop.bos.platinum.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 06:02 PM 10/26/98 -0400, Vin McLellan wrote:

>	For 30-odd years, info security professionals have used a model
>which declares that there are only three ways for a machine to validate or
>authenticate that a remote human is the person who was initially identified
>and enrolled (by a trusted Admin) as the user authorized to use a computer
>account:
>
>_"something known," a memorized password or PIN;
>_"something held," a physical token that can be carried as a personal
>identifier; or
>_"something one is," a biometric like a fingerprint or voiceprint.

However, formal security theory, dating back before the invention of PK has
recognized that authorization systems can be just as effectively based on a
Capability model as an Identity model.  A bearer token in my mind, is
nothing more than a kind of Capability.

The idea is that what you really want to know is "should this request be
permitted." Using identity to determine this is just a way of adding a
level of indirection to the algorithm.  In a capability model, the answer
is presented directly.

The debate over these models has always revolved around efficiency.  I will
not review that here, except to note that while capabilities usually take
their lumps for not being able to scale well, pure identity models do not
scale either.  It is always necessary to introduce some form of
aggregation, such as groups, roles, citizens, credit card holders,
whatever, that reduces the number of individual rules that must be managed,
stored and referenced.

Therefore, while you may reasonably argue that dbs will not work or scale
or whatever for one reason or another, you cannot argue that it is not
supported by formal security theory.

Regards,

Hal
====================================================================
Harold W. Lockhart Jr.               PLATINUM technology
Chief Technical Architect            8 New England Executive Park
Email: Harold.Lockhart@platinum.com  Burlington, MA 01803 USA
Voice: (781)273-6406                 Fax: (781)229-2969
====================================================================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Theodor.SCHLICKMANN@BXL.DG13.cec.be
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 17:31:09 +0800
To: 
Subject: Re: Right of privacy
In-Reply-To: <199810280135.TAA10758@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> One thing I know is that the social potential for video cameras in relation
> to traffic management are immense. The problem is that their potential for
> abuse when coupled with other sorts of technologies is absolutely
> frightening. I don't believe that potential is enough to avoid them out of
> hand.
> 
> > It is not only communication.
> > Privacy is also needed on public places (e.g., violated by face 
> recognition systems), 
> > at work places (e.g.,violated by telephone tapping), for your body (e.g., 
> endangered by 
> > abortion control),
> 
> No, what is needed in public places is anonymity. We want to be treated 
> just
> like everyone else. We specificaly don't want any identity.


It is important to set clear guidlines and codes of practice for such
technological innovations, well in advance of the digital revolution
making new and unforseen opportunities to collate, analyze, recognise
and store such visual images. Such regulation will need to be founded 
on sound data protection principles and take cognizance of
article 15 of the European Data Protection Directive. Essentially it
says that:

"Member States shall grant the right of every person not to be subject
to a decision which produces legal effects concerning him or significantly
affects him and which is based solely on the automatic processing of
data".

The attitude to CCTV camera networks varies greatly in the European Union,
from the position in Denmark where such cameras ar banned by law to the
position in the UK, where you can find one of the most advanced CCTV network
coverage in Europe and where the issue of regulation and control have been
perhaps more developed then anywhere else.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Hal Lockhart 
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 23:39:48 +0800
To: Vin McLellan 
Subject: Re: dbts: Cryptographic Dog Stocks, The Dirigible Biplane, and   Sending the Wizards Back to Menlo Park
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19981028100547.00a39c1c@pop.bos.platinum.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 06:02 PM 10/26/98 -0400, Vin McLellan wrote:

>	No one who knows anything about SDTI and that market would say that
>the only thing SDTI has that is worth anything is its stake in Verisign
>(and, of course, it was Rob, not the Globe, who said that.)

I've been waiting for somebody to mention that (according to
www.ncipher.com) one of the primary investors in Ncipher, which is the
company Bob touted in the rant that started this thread, is none other than
SDTI.

They also list investments by Newbridge and no less than three V.C.
companies.  Seems at odds with Bob's claim that they "used little, if any,
venture capital money".  However, I have not information about the history
or extent of investment in this company, so I bow to Bob's insider
knowledge. (Bob, I thought you were going to stop posting insider knowledge
to this list.  Or was it that you were going to stop NOT posting ...)

As an aside about Ncipher, while I am sure they are smart guys and will do
well, isn't a hardware crypto engine pretty much a commodity product?  How
can a company like this resist an onslaught from an IBM or an Intel if they
decided this niche was large enough to go after?

Regards,

Hal
====================================================================
Harold W. Lockhart Jr.               PLATINUM technology
Chief Technical Architect            8 New England Executive Park
Email: Harold.Lockhart@platinum.com  Burlington, MA 01803 USA
Voice: (781)273-6406                 Fax: (781)229-2969
====================================================================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 03:03:10 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: MIB Subponeas
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19981026144314.038c6020@rboc.net>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 3:57 AM -0800 10/28/98, Jon 'tex' Boone wrote:
>Tim May  writes:
>>
>> * What about lawyer expenses? I know the line about "If you cannot
>>afford one,
>>   one will be appointed for you," but I've never understood what test of
>>   "afford" is being used. If called before a grand jury, will they pay for a
>>   lawyer? (E.g., if I decide I can't "afford" to pay some shyster to
>>interpret
>>   their legalese into ordinary English.)  (I assume there is some nonsense
>>   about indigence, but can they force someone to prove he has no money?
>>What
>>   if he money, but he needs that $5000 for school tuition more than he needs
>>   to give it to Johnny Cockroach for a day's worth of shystering?)
>
>  Tim,
>
>    It is my understanding, from my brother in law (who is a practicing
>attorney
>    in Pennsylvania) and from my sister's participation in a case in Texas
>that
>    one does not have the right to have legal counsel present at a Grand Jury
>    session.


Yes, yes, yes, I know this. (Had I not known it before, I would have after
the Monicagate matter.)

However, one is still at risk in grand jury matters, and attorneys are
usually used to advise. Also, one can leave the grand jury room to consult
with an attorney.

Too bad this is so, but nearly everyone who receives a subpoena hires an
attorney to advise on risks, consequences, etc. Anyone who gets sucked into
the Great Cypherpunks Conspiracy Trial probably ought to have competent
legal counsel.

(I received a subpoena from one of my neighbors, and it was written in
legalese that I had no way of understanding without a lawyer.  And I always
thought "Deuces take 'em" was a version of poker.)

--Tim May

Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash.
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 01:01:30 +0800
To: Hal Lockhart 
Subject: Re: dbts: Cryptographic Dog Stocks, The Dirigible Biplane, and    Sending the Wizards Back to Menlo Park
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




As Cheech & Chong said once, "YYYYYYerrrrrrr Busteeeeed!". :-).


It seems I forgot that nCipher is, after all, a manufacturing company.

They needed capital to manufacture stuff with, and they went out and got
great gory piles of venture capital to do it with, several rounds, in fact,
in the millions of dollars.

While nCipher seems to be the exception which proves my "venture capitalism
is quaintly industrial" assertion, and that, Microsoft, C2NET, and most
first-mover software / net firms, can do just fine without venture capital
as long as they provide things their customers want, the best "venture
capital" to be found in their customers' pocket, and all that, I do plead
guilty yer honor, yet again, to working without a net.

Oh, well. On the internet, the cost of error is bandwidth, same as it ever
was. Sometimes "ready, fire, aim" means losing a toe or two...

Of course, it's easy to see how, like machinery eventually became to land
in agriculture, the most valuable component in manufacturing won't be the
machines themselves, but the software and wetware required to run those
machines, someday, but that's a rant of a different color, if not a whole
'nother generation.


Cheers,
Bob Hettinga


At 10:05 AM -0500 on 10/28/98, Hal Lockhart wrote:

> I've been waiting for somebody to mention that (according to
> www.ncipher.com) one of the primary investors in Ncipher, which is the
> company Bob touted in the rant that started this thread, is none other than
> SDTI.
>
> They also list investments by Newbridge and no less than three V.C.
> companies.  Seems at odds with Bob's claim that they "used little, if any,
> venture capital money".  However, I have not information about the history
> or extent of investment in this company, so I bow to Bob's insider
> knowledge. (Bob, I thought you were going to stop posting insider knowledge
> to this list.  Or was it that you were going to stop NOT posting ...)
>
> As an aside about Ncipher, while I am sure they are smart guys and will do
> well, isn't a hardware crypto engine pretty much a commodity product?  How
> can a company like this resist an onslaught from an IBM or an Intel if they
> decided this niche was large enough to go after?
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 02:17:46 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: MIB Subponeas (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810281749.LAA14195@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 18:33:59 +0100
> From: Anonymous 
> Subject: Re: MIB Subponeas (fwd)

[various pieces of good advice in dealing with LEA's deleted]

It wasn't so much that they were IRS or whatever, it was they showed up in
the middle of my crit-sit patch regression and completely distracted my
attention from working on the patch for the customer. It was something
*else* to deal with in the priority 1 bin.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 04:47:23 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: RE: UK police chase crooks on CCTV (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F850A@MSX11002>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 10:31 AM -0800 10/28/98, Duncan Frissell wrote:
>So when are they going to arrest Gorby and Fidel?  They killed more people.
>

Besides, most of the folks Pinochet disposed of were lefties and other
enemies of liberty.


--Tim May

Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash.
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Steve Bellovin 
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 02:10:58 +0800
To: Hal Lockhart 
Subject: Re: log files (was: Re: dbts: Cryptographic Dog Stocks, The Dirigible Biplane, and Sending the Wizards Back to Menlo Park )
Message-ID: <199810281713.MAA29423@postal.research.att.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



In message <3.0.1.32.19981028093825.00a3f2d0@pop.bos.platinum.com>, Hal Lockhar
> 
> I hear you saying, "but what if the guy is trying to break into my system."
>  I would argue, that if you are using strong cryptographic authentication
> (whether his identity can be mapped to a human being or not) then either 1)
> he will fail, in which case you don't care or 2) he will succeed, in which
> case he must have used some technique like stealing a key which cannot be
> detected by monitoring.

Why do you assume that the flaw that lets the bad guy in is cryptographic?
I recently analyzed every CERT advisory ever issued.  85% of them
described problems that crypto couldn't fix.  Buffer overflow is the
culprit du jour, but it's hardly the only one.  (This year, the prize
for second place -- admittedly a distant second -- went to crypto modules.)
> 
> I raise this point, because I see it as part of a current trend to resist
> stong security measures in preference to weak ones.  The current industry
> facination with weak measures, like firewalls and intrusion detection
> systems has caused some people to resist the introduction of strong
> measures, such as cryptographic authentication and data protection.  The
> most popular example of this is the foolish practice of putting an SSL
> server, with its vital server private key, outside the firewall in a DMZ.  

That's only a flaw if you assume that there are other weak points on
the Web server that a firewall can protect.  If you lock down the host
so that only port 80 is exposed (and maybe a cryptographically protected
administrative port), what good does the firewall do?  The weakest point
is probably the CGI scripts, and those have to be exposed in any event.
> 
> But I have also heard system administrators protest the introduction of
> cryptographic solutions because some current half measure will no longer
> work.  There are even misguided individuals who have proposed putting
> master decryption keys at vulnerable locations like border routers, so that
> messages can be inspected in the fly.

There are no panaceas, there is no single technology (and that emphatically
includes crypto) that will solve this problem.  Defense in depth is our
best hope, which means firewalls plus crypto plus IDS plus better operating
systems and programming languages.  Most of all, it means engineering a
solution -- making the right set of tradeoffs, even if unobvious.

Let me give an analogy.  On most electrical equipment, the ground pin
is useless -- *unless* there has been another insulation or air gap
failure within the device, a failure that would render the frame "hot".
But because of the ground pin, such a failure will instead short the
hot lead to ground, tripping the breaker.  It thus takes two failures
to electrocute someone.  *But* -- toasters and other devices with
exposed heating elements don't use this technique.  Why not?  Well,
with an exposed electrode, the probability of direct contact with a live
wire is much greater.  And if you ground the frame of the toaster,
there's now a direct, high-quality path to ground that in turn is
in contact with the other hand of the poor fool who is poking at a
piece of bread with a fork.  In other words, what's a safety mechanism
in your refrigerator is a danger in your toaster -- and sometimes,
that can be true of crypto as well.

For another analogy, think of insecurity as entropy.  You can't destroy
it, but you can move it around.  Using crypto moves the problem from
the (in)security of the links to the (in)security of the keys.  If
you can't protect your keys -- and that generally takes much more than
crypto -- using cryptography hasn't bought you anything.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 05:01:52 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: MIB Subpoenas
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 11:28 AM -0800 10/28/98, John Young wrote:

>Note also that all the suspects used a variety of aliases, so the
>Feds allege, just like CJ is mani-nymed in Gilmore's subpoena.

And the requests for "help" (Jeff Gordon to the Cypherpunks list), help
with finding out who Toto communicated with, help with what his messages
meant...well, it looks to me like a conspiracy case is being made.

(The nexus in Washington, near Bell, and the nexus with AP, is indicative.)

The first thing I did when I heard about the latest case, that of Toto, was
to purge any private mail messages between myself and Toto or any of his
alleged nyms. (My backups  may have old messages, but I've been trying to
find them all and destroy or recopy them sans the Toto messages.)

I advise any of you with links to the idea of anonymous murders and AP to
do the same. Soon.

--Tim May

Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash.
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 03:47:10 +0800
To: "Brown, R Ken" 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 8:28 AM -0500 10/13/98, Brown, R Ken wrote:
>In the middle of an interesting article about digital cash, forwarded
>here by Bob Hettinga, there was the line:
>
>> After all, the kind of soccer moms who elected Bill Clinton
>
>"Divided by a common language" as I am  I genuinly don't know what that
>means. And I can't even guess from context. I'd have expected a dig at
>liberals or feminists or welfare recipients at that point; and I can't
>work out what soccer has to do with it.
>
>Do mothers play soccer much in the USA?
>
>Football (as the 95% of the world's population that aren't either
>English-speaking North Americans or else Rugby fans call the Beautiful
>Game) is associated in my mind with young men, specifically working
>class men. It's connotations are entirely macho, even violent.  When a
>big match is on men gather in pubs and bars and shout at TVs whilst
>knocking back the lager. You avoid the centre of town if you don't want
>to risk getting involved in a fight.  People get *killed* at football
>matches.  That's pretty much true in every big city inthe world outside
>North America (and Japan where the fans are polite).
>
>This honestly isn't a troll - I am in fact bewildered by the phrase.

	I am currently in the process of catching up on C-punks, did this
get answered to your satisfaction?
--
"To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a
jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a
gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather naďve, and certainly
unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust"
http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html

Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro@playboy.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 06:18:46 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: No Subject
Message-ID: <36378CD4.4E77@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> Shift registers are cracked.
>
OK. But if used prior to another cipher wouldn't it substantially
complicate the job of, say, looking for English letter distributions in
a test decryption?

I like the other explanation of the hash isolating the key bits from the
whitening operation and adequately serving the same purpose as another
source.

> Traditional block ciphers are expensive bleach, take note.
> Unnecessary.
>
Expensive how? In terms of CPU time?
What alternative makes traditional block ciphers obsolete?




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Duncan Frissell 
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 03:02:37 +0800
To: "Brown, R Ken" 
Subject: RE: UK police chase crooks on CCTV (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F850A@MSX11002>
Message-ID: <4.0.2.19981028120127.03c24310@panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



So when are they going to arrest Gorby and Fidel?  They killed more people.

DCF

At 04:57 AM 10/22/98 -0500, Brown, R Ken wrote:
>> William H. Geiger III[SMTP:whgiii@invweb.net] wrote (among other
>> stuff):
>> 
>> 
>> What we need is a mechanism to punish the politicians
>> who go down the Big Brother path *and* the companies
>> who are making big profits helping them. 
>> IMHO the UK, and the rest of Europe, is a lost cause,
>> it's sheeple are too brainwashed
>
>The best bit of news of the last few days is Pinochet's arrest. It
>lifted my heart. Almost made up for the all 
>the bad stuff the UK government has been coming out with. 
>(Also it brought Thatcher out of the woodwork. Like a large segment of
>the British Tory party she really is/was an authoritarian, 
>paying lip-service to the Free Market for political reasons. You can
>tell them by the company they keep.) 
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 06:22:17 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: personal tracking
Message-ID: <36378EC3.6028@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



There was an SBIR solicitation for an amusing version of this several
years ago. They ( army? ) wanted a robotic version that would detect and
'affix' itself to the target. Probably been built already. I can see
them now : popping out of the ground like bouncing bettys, dropping from
trees like mountain lions, crawling up your leg like disease-carrying
ticks...each one with its own address and destruct code.

Connection to crypto - secure communications probably.

****
TITLE: Tracking and Reporting System (TRS)
OBJECTIVE: To conceive, design, implement, and develop a small
(vest-pocket-size) satellite transceiver that can be overtly (and
possibly
covertly) affixed to personnel, vehicles, or goods in transit for the
purpose of tracking and position reporting of the host. 








  







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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 04:05:55 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: MIB Subpoenas
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



[Misspelled subject corrected - my initial fault, SSM.]

Tim points out the risks of Grand Jury appearance and need
for legal counsel outside the hearing.

We'll add that it's fairly common to use Grand Jury testimony
to ensnare a target - and not only Bill - who thinks there's not
much to worry about based on the friendly strokes beforehand
by velvet-gloved agents. 

It's the false testimony, perjury, that sinks the hook. Especially 
when hit with unexpected questions about matters for which
no preparation has been made, those usually completely unlike 
what the friendly agents suggested was the main reason for 
politely asking for cooperation (not telling what they already
knew the target knows and will try to hide). 

Presumably an attorney would prepare for this, but not all, 
especially if time is limited and the target does not think there's 
any need to fully brief counsel (even dare to fancy lawyers
aint so smart).

A prime suspect in the African Embassy bombings, US citizen 
Wadi el Hage, was induced to come up to NYC from Texas in this 
fashion, testified before the GJ and was immediately arrested for 
giving false testimony to questions ranging over several years of 
his experiences and prior statements to the FBI. The Q&A can
be seen at:

   http://jya.com/usa-v-hage+3.htm

Note that while all the bombers are charged with murder, el Hage
is multiply-charged with perjury.

Note also that all the suspects used a variety of aliases, so the
Feds allege, just like CJ is mani-nymed in Gilmore's subpoena.

Also, in this case at least two of the four suspects have recently
been isolated from outside contact, on the pretext that they may
communicate orders to "terrorists," but, more probably because they
are cooperating with prosecutors who do not want the lovely
relationship to be interrupted by outsiders. Or the Feds want to
send a signal that that is the case to spook those being sought,
and the two not cooperating.

As Jim Choate noted, the implied threat of hellish treatment if
you don't cooperate produces heebie-jeebies and overhwhelming
desire to get your life back to normal everyday, familiar panic. 

And if you're in jail nursed by MIB and strangers in stripes, such a 
threat erodes what's left of your iron discipline to never, ever squeal 
on comrades.

NY Times front-paged yesterday the controversy over prosecutors
offering leniency for testifying against cohorts. During the summer
an appeals panel declared such practice be bribery prohibited under 
a 50-year-old law and ruled that it is illegal. Within hours a higher court 
overruled the panel, and the issue is expected to go to the Supremes.

Even so, the panel made some indelible remarks about prosecutors
not being above the law:

  In their densely worded opinion, the panel examined precedents
  as far back as the Magna Carta, which imposed limits on the
  exercise of sovereign power. The law prohibiting "whoever" from
  offering a witness anything of value in exchange for testimony
  should apply, the judges said, to prosecutors as well as to
  everyone else.


  "Decency, security and liberty alike," the panel said, "demand that
  Government officials shall be subject to the same rules of conduct
  that are commands to the citizen."

As expected, prosecutors were furious at the panel's decision, as
were many judges, claiming that the practice was hundreds of years
old and convictions could not be obtained without it. One judge said
the decision was "amazingly unsound, not to mention nonsensical."

The Times notes that the Miranda decision got the same reception,
and was fought fiercely by the status quo investors in the justice 
system.

It's a good article for preparing to meet the good and bad MIB trolling
for all too trusting, easily spooked rubes, a/k/a terrorists, a/k/a assassins.

In answer to a query about the 3rd subpoena recipient: it's not to a 
CDR or anon remailer operator.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 04:41:45 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: CHAOSTAN
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Delivered-To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 00:26:49 -0800
To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
From: "A.C." 
Subject: IP: CHAOSTAN: EARLY WARNING REPORT.
Sender: owner-ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
Precedence: list
Reply-To: "A.C." 

Richard was a reporter for the US Army, in Germany, until recently.  I hope
I recall the correct branch of the military, Richard, that you served as a
reporter with.  Richard ran into a whole lot of trouble when he began to
expose some rather "controversial" things he saw, that involved US troops
in the former Yugoslavia.   See also the article below Richard's brief
missive, written by Richard Maybury, editor of EARLY WARNING report
newsletter.  It is probably one of the best written essays on the subject
of our now universal dillema.  Maybury's handle on history makes it all the
more credible, especially as he shows the parallels with the present.  AC
---------------------------------------------------
>Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 22:00:38 -0800
>From: Richard=20
>To: Angie Carlson 
>Subject: Richard Holbrooke
>
>Angie,
>Did you see Richard Holbrooke on the PBS Newshour With Jim Lehrer on
>Tues. Oct. 27? He talked about sending more troops to Macedonia because
>of the Kosovo situation and that "It's been a plan for years." But he
>also says they have "an emergency evacuation plan for every person."
>I was surprised Judy Woodruff mentioned the danger of taking U.S. troops
>
>hostage. This had previously been something of a taboo subject in U.S.
>media.
>This "plan for some years" of sending more U.N./NATO troops to Macedonia
>
>may be what I came up against in January of 1994. The planners didn't
>want Americans to learn about the threat to U.S. troops in this region
>of the world.
>Best wishes,
>Rick Haverinen
>-----------------------------------------------------------------
Richard Maybury's U.S. and World EARLY WARNING REPORT

 Free Articles
http://www.stockscape.com/newsletters/maybury/free1.htm

      NEWSLETTER
                        FREE ARTICLES
                                           SUBSCRIBE
                                                               CONTACT
 Chaostan, the Full Story

 Dear Reader,

Having invented the Chaostan model, I'm embarrassed to admit I have
never written a complete explanation of it. Investors found it so
valuable that Henry-Madison Research and EWR began to grow rapidly and
I have been unable to find time to give you the full story until now.

Chaostan is pronounced Chaos-tan, with the emphasis on Chaos. In
Central Asia, the suffix "stan" means "the land of." Uzbekistan, for
instance, is the land of the Uzbeks. I coined the term Chaostan to
mean the land of the Great Chaos. It comprises the area from the
Arctic Ocean to the Indian Ocean and Poland to the Pacific Ocean, plus
North Africa. This is roughly a third of the earth's land surface.

To understand Chaostan, we must first understand these two lines; they
are the most important you will ever see. They represent the "standard
of living" or, if you prefer, "quality of life" of the typical
individual in western civilization. This can be measured however you
wish to measure it -- quantity of food, number of bathtubs, warmth of
clothing, number of telephones, speed of transportation, amount of
entertainment or medical care, and so forth.

Line 1 is the line we have all been taught. We leave school thinking
civilization advanced slowly but steadily over thousands of years
until we reached our present high level.

This line is false. Line 2 is the real line. Nearly all progress
happened recently and suddenly. The typical individual in 1500 AD
lived little better than in 1500 BC. He had little food, little
clothing or shelter, and so much disease, filth and ignorance he was
lucky to survive till age 30; most died in childhood. Until recently,
poverty was so awful that even royalty lived in conditions we would
regard as horrifying.

What happened to cause this sudden, dramatic takeoff? What year did
the sharp escalation begin?

1776. You can verify this yourself and I urge you to do so. Walk
around your home and make a list of everything you have that was
developed after 1776. Electricity, indoor plumbing, plastic, aluminum,
central heating, air conditioning, plywood, refrigerators, nylon,
jogging shoes, inner spring mattresses, rayon, facial tissue,
stainless steel, corn flakes, underwear, radio... Then make another
list of everything developed before 1776. Do the same in a hospital
and dentist's office. Compare the lists and ask yourself what your
life would have been like if you had lived before 1776.

For thousands of years up until the American Revolution, our ancestors
lived just barely above the base line of human existence. Destitution
had been the normal condition since Adam and Eve. The past two
centuries -- a mere eyeblink in the vast span of history -- have been
a spectacular exception.

I do not exaggerate when I say that at least once a week I give thanks
that I was born when and where I was -- in America after 1776.

Why did the American Revolution have this wonderful effect? The answer
is the story of Chaostan. It begins, as almost everything in today's
political world begins, in ancient Rome.

After Roman civilization in Europe fell apart around 500 AD, Europe
was taken over by hundreds of independent cutthroats called feudal
lords. Each set up his own little kingdom of a square mile or so, with
a castle at the center. The people on this tiny estate were the lord's
property--his serfs--to be taxed, regulated and killed as he saw fit.
This was the Dark Ages, a time of starvation, endless war, ignorance
and bottomless misery. The Roman legal system had died along with the
Empire, so Europe had no law. Two people embroiled in a dispute had to
work it out on their own. The feudal lord seldom paid much attention;
he didn't care as long as the taxes kept rolling in.

When a dispute occurred, there was often bloodshed. To avoid this,
participants in disputes increasingly called on neutral third parties
to hear both sides of their stories and make decisions. Usually, the
most trusted person in a community was a clergyman and some clergymen
made careers of hearing disputes and making judgments. They became
judges.

Being clergymen, these judges' decisions in each case were based on
religious principles such as "Thou shalt not steal," and "Thou shalt
not kill."

Decisions were preserved in writing as precedents for later decisions.
This collection of precedents became a body of "case law" (law derived
from actual cases).

One problem. Often people were from different religions. Which
principles should a judge apply? Judges hit on the idea of using the
principles all religions hold in= common.

There are two: (1) Do all you have agreed to do. This became the basis
of contract law. (2) Do not encroach on other persons or their
property. This became the basis of tort law and some criminal law.

These two laws taught by all religions were held to be common to all
persons and they became the foundation of the body of precedents
called Common Law. (All this is fully explained in my Uncle Eric book
WHATEVER HAPPENED TO JUSTICE?)



Another problem. Governments hated the two fundamental laws. They
wanted the privilege of breaking agreements, stealing, killing and
doing whatever else they= pleased.

Right from the beginning, there was conflict between governments and
Common Law judges, and these judges were under extreme pressure to
make exceptions for public officials. This is the meaning of the
so-called divine right of kings. Governments declared that, although
they were as human as everyone else, God had given them the special
right to violate the two fundamental laws.

The modern version of the divine right of kings is what I call the
divine right of the majority. In democracies it is held that the
government can do anything it pleases if the majority or their
representatives vote for it.

Thanks to the divine right of kings, the heavy taxes, regulations and
wars kept the people in crushing poverty.

In England, a huge underground economy sprang up to escape the taxes
and regulations.

Finally, after 1492, shipbuilding advanced enough for people to cross
the ocean to America to escape their governments, and thousands did.
England's underground economy was transplanted to America, where it
flourished. Virtually every adult was engaged in smuggling or tax
evasion of one sort or another.

The early Americans hated the government's political law, but in
regard to Common Law, were probably some of the most law abiding
people ever to walk the earth. They were not perfect, but they had,
after all, risked their lives crossing the ocean to live under the
principles of this law. These principles came not from a legislature
of crooked politicians, but from their religions.

By 1765, enjoying very little taxation or regulation, Americans had
become the wealthiest population on earth.

Here it is important to note that the American Revolution was a
revolution. These were Englishmen fighting their own government. They
did not split from England until July 4, 1776, which was fifteen
months after the war started. Government officials in England decided
to tap into the colonists' wealth. They sent tax collectors.

The tax collectors were tarred and feathered.

They sent troops to protect the tax collectors.

At Lexington and Concord in 1775, the troops arrived to confiscate the
American colonists' guns, and the colonists decided to fight. Then, in
1776, the colonists overthrew their government and, in their
Declaration of Independence said, "All men are created equal." No
special privileges--everyone obeys the two fundamental laws.





After the 1776 revolution, the American founders set up a new
government with a Constitution and Bill of Rights based on the two
fundamental laws.

[The Common Law orgins of the American system are traced in the
Pultizer Prize winning book THE IDEOLOGICAL ORIGINS OF THE AMERICAN
REVOLUTION by Bernard Bailyn, Harvard University Press, 1967.]

The size and power of this government was severely limited and its
ability to steal ("tax") was reduced almost to zero. Until the 20th
century, the tiny US government was supported only by import taxes and
taxes on liquor and tobacco; there was no income tax.

America became a haven for flight capital as people all over the world
began investing their money here. With this mountain of capital to
work with, new businesses sprang up like mushrooms, and inventors such
as Robert Fulton and Eli Whitney were able to acquire funds to develop
a vast array of new machines to make life better. This is where we get
the term "American ingenuity." When he died in 1931, Thomas Edison had
more than a thousand patents.

This mountain of capital also enabled industrialists to produce and
sell these new items at prices everyone could afford, while paying the
world's highest wages.

America still had a lot of flaws, the worst being slavery and the
genocide of the Native American Indians, but it was the freest, most
prosperous land ever known.

The Old World remained so wretchedly poor that archaeological evidence
from American slave dwellings shows Europe's heavily taxed and
regulated middle class did not live as well as America's slaves.

The rest of the world saw America's great wealth and liberty and
wanted it for themselves. In the 1800s, millions came here, and
millions more stayed at home and fought to limit their governments.

Now we come to three questions that are crucial for understanding
Chaostan: (1) Why was the Battle of Lexington called the Shot Heard
Round The World, not the Shot Heard Round America? (2) When the French
gave us the Statue of Liberty, why did they name it Liberty
Enlightening the World, not Liberty Enlightening America? (3) Why does
the statue face outward toward Europe, not inward toward America?





The principles of the 1776 revolution began to spread around the
world, and the nations where they became established came to be known
as the Free World. These nations are also the richest. Liberty is the
source of prosperity. This, incidentally, is the meaning of the
Henry-Madison Company's logo, a Liberty Bell with an economic chart
showing rapid advancement. (The company is named after Patrick Henry
and James Madison.)

America is the only country in history that has been, not so much a
place, as an idea.

Unfortunately, the mid-1800s brought catastrophe. The economic
philosophy that had destroyed the Roman Empire was revived. This was
socialism. Bread and circuses. The all-powerful state.

This old Roman system legitimatized covetousness and claimed
"redistribution of wealth" is not stealing if it is done with good
intentions. It began to spread like a prairie fire and quickly became
so popular that it overwhelmed the philosophy of America's Founders
and buried the principles of Common Law. This is why today few know
anything about the original American philosophy or the two laws which
gave it birth.

The spread of liberty was halted. This map shows the lands where it
had become established before its progress was reversed.

As we would expect, liberty had sunk its deepest roots in regions with
the strongest British Common Law heritage -- America, Canada, Britain,
Australia and New Zealand.=

In a few areas, liberty was introduced forcibly, as when Douglas
MacArthur imposed it on Japan after the second world war. The jury is
still out as to whether the Japanese will retain it or revert to their
old statist ways.

India was a British colony and liberty did take root there, but
socialism was too popular for it to grow. India remains poor, with a
per capita gross national product (GNP) of only $1,300 per year. (In
the US it is $24,700.)

For a while in the early 1800s, Latin America appeared to be on the
verge of adopting liberty. Instead, these countries got sidetracked
and went for democracy -- majority rule -- and the majority liked
socialism. The richest Latin country is Mexico with a per capita GDP
of only $8,200.

In Africa, liberty never had a chance. Nearly all the African
revolutions were 100% socialist, and today Africa is the poorest place
on earth. Zaire's per capita GNP is $500, which is not unusual in
Africa.



In Europe, liberty had become well established as far east as Vienna,
and to a lesser extent in the east European nations of Czechoslovakia,
Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia. Some knowledge of it reached Moscow
under Kerensky in 1917, but the movement was quickly snuffed out by
socialists. Today, East Europe, Russia and Asia remain almost entirely
ignorant of the system of liberty. They are mired in unworkable
statist systems and hundreds of millions of people live only slightly
above the base line.

In other words, Chaostan -- the land of the Great Chaos --  is the
main area that never developed legal systems based on the two
fundamental laws. (Or if they did, they allowed government officials
the special privilege of violating these laws.)

This schematic is derived from a map in the 10/95 EWR. It shows that
the Balkan peninsula has long been one of the bloodiest parts of
Chaostan because this is where three major religious cultures collide.



Since the beginning of history, this area has been inhabited by
hundreds of nations, tribes and ethnic groups that have hated and
fought each other incessantly. Russia alone contains some 250 of these
groups and they know nothing of the legal principles that make an
advanced, peaceful civilization possible. Worse, there is no one to
teach them, for the West has forgotten these principles, too.

The importance of all this was hidden by the Cold War. From 1945 to
1990, the US and Soviet governments divided the world into two
"spheres of influence," and Russia sat on its sphere like a lid on a
pressure cooker. Peace in Chaostan was artificial; the hundreds of
fractious groups under the Kremlin's thumb had not been
civilized--they had only been suppressed. Now that the lid is off the
pressure cooker, the explosion has begun. The area is returning to its
original condition of poverty and war. Saddam Hussein was the first to
realize the Kremlin's weakness was an opportunity to settle old
scores. Since the fall of the Soviet Empire, no less than 17 wars have
broken out in Chaostan.

Travel around the world and study the economies of the countries you
visit. You will see a pattern. The more socialistic a country is, the
poorer it is. The former USSR is the textbook example. It was poor
when the Soviet Empire was at its peak and it remains poor today. A
degree of advancement can be achieved through force, by telling people
to work or die, but slaves do only the minimum necessary to escape
punishment and have little interest in progress. The mighty USSR was a
Third World nation with missiles.


After the USSR broke up, the Russians were deceived. They were taught
democracy. When the Berlin Wall fell in 1989, they were led to believe
that if they got majority rule like America, they would get rich like
America. It did not work because it cannot work.

In all the thousands of years of human history, the only thing that
has been found to work is liberty -- the two fundamental laws. When
these laws are widely obeyed by everyone, including government
officials, life gets better. When they are disobeyed, life gets worse;
it is automatic. We don't know why our species is made this way, we
only know we are.

These principles cannot be established by a government, for
governments claim the special right to violate them, and hypocrites
are laughed at. The principles must exist in the hearts and minds of
the people, which means they must be anchored in the peoples'
philosophical beliefs.

Unfortunately, even in America these principles have been almost
totally erased, so there is no one to teach the principles to the
inhabitants of Chaostan. These people have learned only the simplistic
notion of democracy -- majority rule.

Wait a minute, you say, if the principles are so important, and if
America has forgotten them, how does America continue?

Momentum. This great land and all the rest of the Free World still
have the principles embedded in their legal systems, but few know or
care about this. When the momentum runs out, we will head down the
same road as the former USSR. This is why I write the Uncle Eric
series of books: to help reverse this decline.

Look again at Line 2. Perhaps the twenty most important words you will
ever read are these: When the two laws are not widely obeyed by
everyone, including the government, a civilization returns to the base
line.

This was demonstrated over and over again in Africa. Colonialism was
bad enough, but after Africans threw off their European rulers, they
jumped from the colonial frying pan to the socialist fire. The result
was a descent into poverty and war reminiscent of the Dark Ages.

This descent is what is happening now in Chaostan, and what will
happen to us if we do not revive the two fundamental laws.

At bottom, there are only three possible political conditions --
liberty, tyranny or chaos. All political systems are variations of
these. For the people of Chaostan, liberty is not an option. They are
condemned to either tyranny or chaos, for they have never known
anything else and there is no one to teach them.

Until 1989, the former USSR had tyranny. Since then they have had
chaos, and now I believe they are ready for a return to tyranny. But
not all the hundreds of groups originally conquered by the Kremlin
will submit. We can only guess at what will happen, but it will not be
pretty.



SUMMARY

War, tyranny and poverty have been the normal conditions of mankind
throughout history. My personal estimate is that 99% of everything
good that ever happened to our species happened in one fell swoop, in
the brief two centuries since 1776. This was due to the discovery and
application of the two fundamental Common Law principles that make
liberty and prosperity possible.

After 1776, these principles began to spread around the world.

Unfortunately, by 1900, this movement had been choked off by the
revival of socialism. Large parts of the earth never got the
principles, and the largest, which I call Chaostan, is now reverting
to its original condition of war, tyranny and poverty.

The principles of liberty are being rediscovered and if we all do our
best to spread the word, I believe we have a good chance to rescue the
Free World. But Chaostan is too far gone. The area is so huge, it will
continue causing major changes in the world economy and investment
markets. This will mean big losses for those who do not understand,
and big profits for those who do. I will keep you informed.

Created by Stockscape Stockscape Technologies Ltd.,
 All Rights Reserved


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--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 04:31:40 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Microsoft Enters Smart Card Market
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Delivered-To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
X-Sender: believer@telepath.com
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 11:31:51 -0600
To: believer@telepath.com
From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Microsoft Enters Smart Card Market
Mime-Version: 1.0
Sender: owner-ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
Precedence: list
Reply-To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  New York Times
http://www.nytimes.com/library/tech/yr/mo/biztech/articles/28card.html

October 28, 1998

Microsoft Enters Smart Card Market

By BLOOMBERG NEWS

PARIS -- The Microsoft Corporation introduced a tiny
computer-operating system for smart cards Tuesday as well as
support for the system from 20 hardware makers.

Smart cards contain microchips that store personal or financial data,
allowing access while securing the information from unauthorized use.
They are already used widely in Europe in digital mobile phones,
pre-paid telephone cards and bank cards.

Microsoft is betting that smart cards will take off as the growing use of
hand-held computer devices and electronic commerce creates demand
for more secure ways of accessing computer networks. The company,
which is based in Redmond, Wash., is competing against Sun
Microsystems Inc. in the smart-card market, pitting its Windows system
against Sun's Java programming language.

"We brought back our work on smart cards a year-and-a-half ago when
we saw increasing demand for authentication of a user's identity to access
a network and an explosion in demand for on-line electronic commerce,"
said Craig Mundie, senior vice president for consumer platforms at
Microsoft.

He presented the new product at the Cartes 98 Smart Card conference
in Paris. He said test versions of the product would be ready in the first
quarter of next year and the final product by mid-year.

The Windows operating system for smart cards will have memory
capacity of 4.5 kilobytes, compared with 300 kilobytes for Windows
CE, which is used in hand-held computers.

Windows cards will cost issuers about $3 each, compared with $20 for
Java-based cards.

Sun officials could not immediately be reached for comment.

The worldwide market for chip cards will jump nearly fivefold, to $6.8
billion, in 2002, from $1.4 billion in 1997, according to Dataquest Inc., a
unit of Gartner Group Inc.
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------


****************************************************
To subscribe or unsubscribe, email:
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with the message:
     (un)subscribe ignition-point email@address

or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email@address
****************************************************
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--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Hal Lockhart 
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 05:18:58 +0800
To: Steve Bellovin 
Subject: Re: log files (was: Re: dbts: Cryptographic Dog Stocks, The Dirigible Biplane, and Sending the Wizards Back to Menlo Park )
In-Reply-To: <199810281713.MAA29423@postal.research.att.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19981028153554.00a4cc3c@pop.bos.platinum.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Steve,

I think in general we are in violent agreement, as are most real world
practitioners I have spoken to.  I won't even argue about whether your
original comment constituted "resisting a strong measure in favor of a weak
measure".  Let's just say that your comment brought to mind certain unnamed
persons who have done this.

However, I believe you missed my points in several other areas, so I will
try to clarify what I was saying.  Out of courtesy to the numerous lists we
are cross posting to, after your next response, if any, I suggest we take
this off list.

At 12:13 PM 10/28/98 -0500, Steve Bellovin wrote:
>In message <3.0.1.32.19981028093825.00a3f2d0@pop.bos.platinum.com>, Hal
Lockhar
>> 
>> I hear you saying, "but what if the guy is trying to break into my system."
>>  I would argue, that if you are using strong cryptographic authentication
>> (whether his identity can be mapped to a human being or not) then either 1)
>> he will fail, in which case you don't care or 2) he will succeed, in which
>> case he must have used some technique like stealing a key which cannot be
>> detected by monitoring.
>
>Why do you assume that the flaw that lets the bad guy in is cryptographic?
>I recently analyzed every CERT advisory ever issued.  85% of them
>described problems that crypto couldn't fix.  Buffer overflow is the
>culprit du jour, but it's hardly the only one.  (This year, the prize
>for second place -- admittedly a distant second -- went to crypto modules.)

I never said that the flaw was cryptographic.  The idea I was trying to
express was that are two cases:

1) (Today) Let in unauthenticated or weakly authenticated users.  There is
a (relatively) high probability that they are attackers who will try to
exploit some weakness like a buffer overflow. In this case it is useful to
observe their application level traffic in order to detect this or learn of
the existence of the new crack they are using.

2) (Future) Allow only strongly authenticated users.  Either a) they are
legitimate users whose identity is known and will presumably not try to
hack the system, or b) they are attackers who have done something like
steal the key of a legitimate user.  In the later case, I admit you might
want to see what they are typing, but it will not give you any information
about the underlying problem -- their ability to obtain unauthorized keys.

>> I raise this point, because I see it as part of a current trend to resist
>> stong security measures in preference to weak ones.  The current industry
>> facination with weak measures, like firewalls and intrusion detection
>> systems has caused some people to resist the introduction of strong
>> measures, such as cryptographic authentication and data protection.  The
>> most popular example of this is the foolish practice of putting an SSL
>> server, with its vital server private key, outside the firewall in a DMZ.  
>
>That's only a flaw if you assume that there are other weak points on
>the Web server that a firewall can protect.  If you lock down the host
>so that only port 80 is exposed (and maybe a cryptographically protected
>administrative port), what good does the firewall do?  The weakest point
>is probably the CGI scripts, and those have to be exposed in any event.

I agree with that. It is amazing to me how many people enable crypto like a
talisman without locking down the rest of the system.  

However, my point was that as I understand the theory behind a DMZ, you put
systems there that you think might get overrun.  You do not put the
mainframe that runs payroll in the DMZ. Yet, I assert, the server private
key, which represents the identity of the organization ought to fall in
under the same classification and receive the same protection. (Its
actually worse than I indicated, since if you want your server to restart
without human intervention, you generally have to put the pass phrase in a
script file or something.
 
>> But I have also heard system administrators protest the introduction of
>> cryptographic solutions because some current half measure will no longer
>> work.  There are even misguided individuals who have proposed putting
>> master decryption keys at vulnerable locations like border routers, so that
>> messages can be inspected in the fly.
>
>There are no panaceas, there is no single technology (and that emphatically
>includes crypto) that will solve this problem.  Defense in depth is our
>best hope, which means firewalls plus crypto plus IDS plus better operating
>systems and programming languages.  Most of all, it means engineering a
>solution -- making the right set of tradeoffs, even if unobvious.

Agreed.  I have no problem with defense in depth.  Only, as I said,
limiting the use of a strong technique because it interferes with the use
of a weak one.

>Let me give an analogy.  On most electrical equipment, the ground pin
>is useless -- *unless* there has been another insulation or air gap
>failure within the device, a failure that would render the frame "hot".
>But because of the ground pin, such a failure will instead short the
>hot lead to ground, tripping the breaker.  It thus takes two failures
>to electrocute someone.  *But* -- toasters and other devices with
>exposed heating elements don't use this technique.  Why not?  Well,
>with an exposed electrode, the probability of direct contact with a live
>wire is much greater.  And if you ground the frame of the toaster,
>there's now a direct, high-quality path to ground that in turn is
>in contact with the other hand of the poor fool who is poking at a
>piece of bread with a fork.  In other words, what's a safety mechanism
>in your refrigerator is a danger in your toaster -- and sometimes,
>that can be true of crypto as well.

I guess I don't see the case where the use of crypto decreases security,
except if a mis-design causes complacency.  In my mind, strong security
begins with strong (cryptographic) authentication. [Calm down Bob, I am not
ruling out non-biologic identities.]  If we have authentication, we can
have access control, audit trails, etc.  We can certainly add heuristic
measures like firewalls and IDS and potentially detect additional problems.
 However, I have met more that a few people who want to play with an IDS
because it is cool, rather than go through the hard and unsexy work of
locking down their systems.

>For another analogy, think of insecurity as entropy.  You can't destroy
>it, but you can move it around.  

Do you have any evidence for this remarkable assertion?  It sounds like a
council of despair to me.  Are you saying that no matter what we do or how
much we spend, we can not make systems more secure.  Say it ain't so!

>Using crypto moves the problem from
>the (in)security of the links to the (in)security of the keys.  If
>you can't protect your keys -- and that generally takes much more than
>crypto -- using cryptography hasn't bought you anything.

I agree that as we raise the bar, new attacks become the weakest link, but
that does not mean you have not increased security. The new weakest links
are no weaker in an absolute sense. 

A better analogy is computer performance improvement.  If we speed up the
current bottleneck, something else becomes the bottleneck, but that doesn't
mean the system won't run faster.

The practical reality of the Internet today is best illustrated by the
story of the hikers and the mountain lion.  When the hikers encounter a
mountain lion one begins to tie on his running shoes.  The other says "you
can't outrun him with or without running shoes."  The first answers "I
don't have to outrun him, just you."

The serious hackers don't waste their time trying to break into AT&T, they
pick some place easier. (like the CIA ;-)

Regards,

Hal

====================================================================
Harold W. Lockhart Jr.               PLATINUM technology
Chief Technical Architect            8 New England Executive Park
Email: Harold.Lockhart@platinum.com  Burlington, MA 01803 USA
Voice: (781)273-6406                 Fax: (781)229-2969
====================================================================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 06:56:34 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: cypherpunks@algebra.com moving
Message-ID: <199810282219.QAA12641@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



This list will move to another machine tonight because it is relocating
to another colocated server.

It has nothing to do with subpoenas.

Hopefully things will work transparently, but if they do not, write me
to ichudov@yahoo.com (there is a possibility that all algebra.com
may be shut out of mail).

	- Igor.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Charlie_Kaufman@iris.com
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 07:02:21 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: lotus notes id file
Message-ID: <852566AB.00799CCF.00@arista.iris.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




>    I'm using lotus notes and I have a big problem. I have a id file with
no
>password. How can I get a password for it or reset it. Is there some type
of
>utility or something someone knows of?I have been told that I'm out of
luck
>unless I have the original.

I assume you mean the ID file has a password, but that you have forgotten
it. Notes uses your password as an encryption key and encrypts the ID file.
There is no utility existing or possible that can reconstruct the ID file
without knowing the password. There is a company called AccessData
Corporation in Lindon, Utah that claims to have written a utility that will
do a brute force search guessing large numbers of passwords and trying to
verify each guess. If you have a vague recollection that you didn't pick
your password very carefully, they might be able to help you. I have no
experience with the company and have no idea what they charge, whether they
actually provide this service, or indeed whether they still exist.

Otherwise, your system administrator can create a new ID file for you. That
will work fine except that if you have any data encrypted under your key
(e.g. you received any encrypted email), that data is forever lost. Notes
System Administrators at sites where people use encryption are strongly
encouraged to have a backup strategy for archiving ID files for just this
eventuality. You might ask whether he did so, and encourage him to do so in
the future if not.

[Note: the tradeoff between protecting the privacy of employees from nosy
system administrators and bailing them out when they forget their passwords
is a sensitive one. People have strong opposing views on what's "right".]

Good luck.

     --Charlie Kaufman





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Diederik Smets" 
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 00:57:31 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: lotus notes id file
Message-ID: <412566AB.00566188.00@mailhost.emd.be>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



IF the owner of the id also entered an internet password AND it is the same
as the one for the id file, then you can use brute force (dictionairies) to
try and crack it. Get the encrypted value in the
properties>fields>HTTPPassword of the persons document in the PNAB and
compare it to the results of the @password() function.

Alternatively, do a search for old id files which might still be accessible
with the 'default' password (if you know which one that is), but you won't
be able to access servers that have the 'check password' option enabled.

If you need to access a local DB that has 'enforce a consistant ACL across
all replicas' enabled, just use another id and add that person's name with
the necessary roles to the ACL via LotusScript.

Diederik


Hello
     I'm using lotus notes and I have a big problem. I have a id file with
no
password. How can I get a password for it or reset it. Is there some type
of
utility or something someone knows of?I have been told that I'm out of luck
unless I have the original.

John...





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 08:15:09 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: An interesting set of observations... [fwd]
Message-ID: <199810282358.RAA16130@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 14:30:32 -0700

> Southerners are extremely patriotic. Isn't a foreign army in the world could
> invade the South, take it and hold it without fighting partisans in every
> nook and corner!

> >Lost the war but won the peace!
> 
> Lost the war and lost the right of the States to determine for themselves
> how they would be governed. Won a strong central government, a huge social
> welfare problem and income tax. Sure looks like a clear cut victory to me!


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 08:17:34 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Another interesting observation...
Message-ID: <199810290002.SAA16193@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 16:21:21 EST

> Excuse me!  The S. L. A. Marshall study to which you refer; the one that
> slammed the American Army infantryman for not firing, has been debunked as
> based on pure fantasy by no less a person than SLAM;s #2.  Training does work
> and ammunition depletion was a problem for front line units.
> Although I an now guilty of failing to meet Pauls request to take this strain
> private, as a damn Yankee :-),  I strongly protest comments by by people
> outside the family on this whole GD, err GC, subject.  For the record, if your
> country has a history of dictatorship in this century, you need to research
> your own history, like the government death squads so prevalent SOB.  As to
> our distant northern cousins, you still have government censorship of the
> press, a draconian official secrets act, and border police who stop and search
> any US car with an NRA decal that has the temerity to cross into Canada.
> In 2 weeks, those of us who remember, celebrate Veterans Day, once known as
> Armistice Day.  So when you choose to rag on the US, remember Bois de Belleau,
> Chateau Thierry, Bastogne, and keep a moment of silence for the gun crazy
> Americans who gave their last full measure of devotion.
> 
> Rant off.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 02:19:33 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: 1999 U$ budget for facial recognition
Message-ID: <199810281733.SAA00537@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




The committee recommends an increase of $5.0 million for the facial
recognition technology program. 


http://www.dp.hq.af.mil/DP/dprc/SENREPT.HTM

Report to Accompany


S. 2060


The Department of Defense Authorization Bill
for Fiscal Year 1999

(large document)






  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 02:25:14 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: cypherpunk fashion accessories
Message-ID: <199810281733.SAA00557@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



 A piece of luggage in the form of an attache case is equipped
with destruct means for destroying the contents therein in response to an
intentionally given signal. The interior of the case comprises a
compartment in the form of a metallic box with a cover, which box when
closed serves as a combustion chamber to incinerate the contents therein
when so desired. Fuel and electric igniter means are placed within the box
and ignition current is supplied by a power pack housed in the attache
case. A heat insulation barrier surrounds the box and prevents transfer of
combustion heat to the walls of the attache case. The circuit
interconnecting the electric power pack and the igniter means includes a
number of normally open switches arranged in series; all of which must be
closed to initiate and start the destruct cycle. One switch is closed in
response to closure of the attache case, and others may be deliberately
closed by key means or the like. The final switch is closed by a pushbutton
in the vicinity of the attache case handle, whereby the carrier of the case
may set off the destruct cycle by manipulating the pushbutton with a finger
of the hand around the handle. 

http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?pn10=US03643609








  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 02:08:22 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: MIB Subponeas (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810281733.SAA00570@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



1. You have the option of telling them to leave your property at
once (if you can pull this at work, e.g., if you're the boss).

2. You do not have to identify yourself when asked, unless
you're driving a car in public.  You do not have to accept a subpeona.  

Uncertified postal mail is datagrams and its surprising how many
e.g., jury notices are dropped.

I remember my dad sending me to tell the man who drove up to the
house (to serve my dad, a lawyer) to get lost.  Pretty cool thing 
for an 8 year old to do.

If you have the presence of mind to remember these things, you can
at least get advance notice, and send your blue dress to the cleaners.

At 04:56 PM 10/27/98 -0600, Jim Choate wrote:
>The only issue that took me by
>surprise was two officers showing up at work unannounced. It took me till
>the next day to burn off the heeby-jeebies from that.








  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 02:19:11 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199810281735.SAA00677@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 02:35 PM 10/27/98 -0800, Michael Motyka wrote:
>> Most of nature is a very high quality vacuum, actually.
>>
>Yup, I did my 100hrs of Physics, Chemistry and Math too. I like the way
>the 'vacuum' behaves near very hi-Z nuclei.

Fine, lets get into vacuum energy, but not waste cpunk time.


>More interesting, though, is this: why would a block cipher use key bits
>rather than an LFSR to do input or output whitening? Is it strictly a
>performance issue? Is it proven that doing this doesn't leak key bits in
>some way?

Shift registers are cracked.  Good ciphers haven't been.  (Love
tautologies.)  

Traditional block ciphers are expensive bleach, take note.
Unnecessary.  










  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 02:22:42 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: airline id
Message-ID: <199810281736.SAA00715@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




At 12:43 PM 10/27/98 -0800, Joel O'Connor wrote:
>you flew to.  Even with trains, all's it will take is one bomb and you
>better believe security will be pumped up as high as it is with
>airlines. 

Naaah, you pull rail-spikes to get trains, no big ba-da-boom required.
And it does happen.














  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 02:20:20 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: personal tracking
Message-ID: <199810281738.SAA00830@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




http://fotlan5.fotlan.army.mil/STRATEGIC/appa.html

TITLE: Tracking and Reporting System (TRS)
OBJECTIVE: To conceive, design, implement, and develop a small
(vest-pocket-size) satellite transceiver that can be overtly (and possibly
covertly) affixed to personnel, vehicles, or goods in transit for the
purpose of tracking and position reporting of the host. 








  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 11:20:36 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: cohen predicts army patrols US streets
Message-ID: <199810290249.SAA20979@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 15:42:55 -0700
From: Bill Mee 
Subject: Cohen Predicts Army Will Patrol US Streets

Sorry no URL on this--the following was copied from the 
FreeRepublic website 

DOD BILL COHEN WARNS OF US TERRORISM . . . 

Army Times 10-22 Staff /Wire Reports 

***US ARMY WILL PATROL U.S. STREETS . . .
An Interview with Secretary of Defense Bill Cohen 
. . .in the Army Times.*** 

>From Staff and Wire Reports The Times of Arkansas, Texas 
and Louisiana: US Defense Secretary Predicts the Army 
Will Patrol US Streets 

"Terrorism is escalating to the point that Americans soon 
may have to choose between civil liberties and more 
intrusive means of protection," says Defense Secretary 
William S. Cohen 

The nation's defense chief told the Army Times he once 
considered the chilling specter of armored vehicles 
surrounding civilian hotels or government buildings to 
block out terrorists as strictly an overseas phenomenon. 

But no longer. 

"It could happen here," Cohen said he conclued after 8 
months of studying threats under the Pentagon microscope. 

Free-lance terrorists with access to deadly chemical and 
biological bombs are "going to change the way in which the 
American people view security in our own country," he 
predicted in a Sept 10 interview. 

Cohen is calling for the government to step up its efforts 
to penetrate wildcard terrorist organizations. 

"It's going to require greater intelligence on our part -- 
much greater emphasis on intelligence gathering capability 
- - - more human intelligence, and it's going to take more 
technical intelligence," he said. 

But using the U.S. military in a domestic law enforcement 
role would require revisions to laws in force for more 
than a century, cautions Shreveport attorney John Odom, 
Jr. 

"You can't do it from the Defense Department side unless 
Congress dramatically revises the Posse Comitatus laws." 
said Odom, a colonel in the U.S. Air Force Reserve and a 
reserve Judge Advocate. 

"The 1878 law specifically prohibits the use of the 
military in domestic law enforcement unless authorized by 
Congress or the Constitution and does not wllow for 
military intervention through action by the Secretary of 
Defense of even an Executive Order from the President," 
Odom said. 

We're trained from the first day of Judge Advocate school 
to think of Posse Comitatus !!! said Odom. "If Secretary 
Cohen is suggesting that the Department of Defense be 
involved, it may be part of a legislative package, but it 
will not happen unilaterally without a lot of folks 
thinking long and hard about it." 

Cohen said terrorism would be a top priority in 5 new 
areas he plans to focus on now that he has wrapped up his 
first defense budget, the quadrennial review of the 
military and a new 4-year defense strategy. 

Other goals include modernizing the military, improbing 
troops housing and other benefits, streamlining the 
defense bureaucracy and shaping new military relationships 
and contracts across the globe.


- - --------------DCC19197C8214DDB42B1B018--


- ------- End of Forwarded Message


------- End of Forwarded Message




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 02:43:57 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: one lump or two
Message-ID: <199810281803.TAA03396@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>(e.g. # Uses/Side Effects/Precuations/Interactions/etc.)
>
>I'd like info on Zoloft, Zestril, Lithium, & Deprecote (?sp) - orange-ish
>liquid capsules - ... and Tegretol and Respiradahl (?sp)

Depekote and Tegretol are anti-seizure drugs now being used
for certain kinds of bipolar conditions.  

Zoloft is like prozac but has also a mild stimulating effect.

Lithium is a classic anti-bipolar drug.

Li, Depekote, probably Tegretol you have to watch blood levels
even after stabilization.

They probably think he's manic and or depressed, if he's
been coherent and dumbed-himself-down enough to avoid
a psychotic or schizoform diagnosis.  Shrinks don't like rants, especially
ones they don't understand.

















  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Watts 
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 11:40:45 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: California Court decision on freedom of association
Message-ID: <19981029031629.26946.rocketmail@send105.yahoomail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



In re DAVID A. ENGLEBRECHT, JR., on Habeas Corpus. 


No. D030992 

In the Court of Appeal of the State of California 

Fourth Appellate District 

Division One 

(San Diego County Super. Ct. No. N76652) 

PETITION for writ of habeas corpus following contempt finding by
Superior Court of San Diego County for willfully violating two
provisions of a preliminary injunction. John S. Einhorn, Judge.
Petition granted in part and denied in part. 


COUNSEL
 Steven J. Carroll, Public Defender and DawnElla Gilzean, Deputy
Public Defender, for Petitioner. 

 Paul J. Pfingst, District Attorney, Thomas F. McArdle and Anthony
Lovett, Deputy District Attorneys, for Respondent. 

Filed October 26, 1998 


 In this proceeding, we are asked to decide the constitutionality of
two provisions of a preliminary injunction, which prohibit: 

 " Standing, sitting, walking, driving, bicycling, gathering or
appearing anywhere in public view with any other defendant herein, or
with any other known Posole [gang] member" and 

 " Using or possessing pagers or beepers in any public place." 

 We find the non-association provision is constitutional, but the
restriction on pagers and beepers is not. 






_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: mgraffam@idsi.net
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 09:21:07 +0800
To: Ulf Möller 
Subject: Re: Using a password as a private key.
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Wed, 28 Oct 1998, Ulf [iso-8859-1] Möller wrote:

> I don't like the idea though. You're giving everybody the chance to
> run a password guessing attack on your secret key.

That was my first objection too..

But the only thing stopping an attacker from running the same attack
on my PGP key is that they don't _have_ my PGP key.. a non-issue
for a dedicated attacker. My 1024 bit private key could be had fairly
easily, it would entail hacking my PC, or stealing.. whatever. Now
they run a password cracker.

In the case of the private key being generated from a passphrase, hacking
my PC, or stealing it, does them no good .. my private key isn't there ..
(ok, maybe it is.. data remanence is a pain in ass.. but you get the
point). 

Lastly .. I am not too familiar with elliptic curve crypto, but it seems
to me that running a cracker on a phrase, and then generating the private
key from it or trying signatures is going to be more CPU intensive than
doing a few blocks of IDEA or CAST, so it would seem to follow that this
scheme is stronger in preventing an intelligent search of the passphrase.

Michael J. Graffam (mgraffam@idsi.net)
"..subordination of one sex to the other is wrong in itself, and now
one of the chief hindrances to human improvement.." John Stuart Mill
"The Subjection of Women"




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 12:28:11 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Electronic March
Message-ID: <199810290400.UAA14741@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Electronic March
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 21:58:52 -0600
To: believer@telepath.com

   ELECTRONIC MARCH

     A US grass-roots group has kicked off the Billion Byte March, calling
itself the first Internet march on Washington. The aim is to send a million
emails to Congress in January, on the day of the State of the Union
Address. Why? To reform America's social security system. See
http://www.march.org  
  


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 12:28:21 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Crypt Wars, UK-Style
Message-ID: <199810290400.UAA14769@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Crypt Wars, UK-Style
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 21:59:31 -0600
To: believer@telepath.com

   CRYPT WARS, UK-STYLE

     UK's Privacy International has awarded the Department of Trade and
Industry a Big Brother award for its contribution to invading privacy. The
DTI wants all companies offering encrypted services to be licensed, which
means using a third party holding keys to the user's encryption code.
Encryption licensed outside the UK will not be recognised, and thus would
not be protected by law. And only the recommendation of senior police is
needed to get a key - users aren't allowed to know if their key has been
given to the police. More Big Brother awards at http://www.privacy.org/pi/  


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 12:29:31 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: No dirty trick, just a computer program let loose
Message-ID: <199810290400.UAA14790@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: No dirty trick, just a computer program let loose
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 10:36:35 -0600
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  Fox News - AP

No dirty trick, just a computer program let loose
 10.50 a.m. ET (1551 GMT) October 28, 1998

 GREENBURGH, N.Y. (AP) - When their phones rang in the middle of the night
this week, many residents expected the worst. 

 Death in the family? Fire? 

 No, just the bureaucratic tone of town supervisor Paul Feiner's taped
voice, advising of a change in local trash pickup times. 

 Couldn't this have waited until morning? 

 "I thought it was a member of my family,'' said Barbara Merriwether, 52.
"I thought something was wrong.'' 

 The timing of the 300 calls, of course, wasn't intentional. Someone at the
police department had forgotten to turn off an automated calling program
Monday evening, and the system ran through the night. 

 The only bad news in the affair may be for Feiner, who is trying to unseat
incumbent Republican Benjamin Gilman in the 20th Congressional District.
Feiner said may throw a party - with his own money - for everyone who was
called after 9 p.m. 

                  (c) 1998 Associated Press. All rights reserved.
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 12:39:38 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: New Evidence Exposes Vince Foster Murder
Message-ID: <199810290400.UAA14809@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: New Evidence Exposes Vince Foster Murder
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 11:07:35 -0600
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  Washington Weekly
http://www.federal.com/oct26-98/Story01.html

New Evidence Exposes Vince Foster Murder 
Victim Not Shot With .38 Caliber Revolver 

 By WESLEY PHELAN 

 Vince Foster, Deputy White House Counsel early in Bill Clinton's first
term, was found
 dead in Fort Marcy Park on July 20, 1993. Three investigations into
Foster's death,
 including one by Independent Counsel Kenneth Starr, have ruled the death a
suicide.
 Patrick Knowlton, referred to as "C2" in Starr's Report, entered Fort
Marcy Park
 approximately 70 minutes before Foster's body was discovered. Evidence
shows that
 Foster was already dead at that time. Knowlton saw two vehicles in the
parking lot,
 neither of which matched the description of Vince Foster's 1989 silver-
gray Honda. 

 In the spring of 1994, FBI agent Lawrence Monroe interviewed Knowlton for the
 Office of regulatory Independent Counsel Robert Fiske. Knowlton learned in
October
 of 1995 that his statements to Monroe were falsified in the FBI interview
report.
 Shortly thereafter Knowlton received a secret grand jury subpoena from
Independent
 Counsel Kenneth Starr, who was conducting the third investigation into
Foster's death.
 That same day several men began to harass Knowlton in the streets of
Washington,
 D.C. 

 John Clarke, attorney for Knowlton, filed suit in U.S. District Court in
Washington
 D.C., claiming the harassment was a violation of Knowlton's civil rights
[1]. The suit
 alleges the harassment was part of a larger conspiracy to cover up the facts
 surrounding Vince Foster's death. 

 On Wednesday of last week Clarke filed an amended complaint in the suit,
adding
 several new defendants [2]. The most striking paragraph in the complaint
states: 

Facts 

26. On July 20th, 1993, between the time of 3:00 p.m. and 4:00 p.m.,
Vincent Foster died of a small-caliber gunshot wound to his head, at the
hand of another. The bullet entered his head from the upper portion of
the right side of his neck, under the jaw line, passed upward through the
body of the tongue, pierced his brain and struck the skull approximately
three inches below the top of the head, fracturing it. The bullet remained
in his head. Blood drained from the entrance wound in the neck onto his
right collar and shoulder and was absorbed down onto his right
shirtsleeve. Blood also accumulated in his mouth. 

 This statement of facts, which runs counter to the results of three
official government
 investigations, is a very bold gambit by Clarke. Under Rule 11 of Federal
Civil
 Procedure, for an attorney to make irresponsible assertions of fact before
a court
 opens him to severe sanctions by the judge. In the following interview,
conducted on
 October 21, John Clarke discusses with The Washington Weekly the
compelling new
 evidence supporting his statement of facts. 

QUESTION: You filed an amended complaint today on behalf of Patrick
Knowlton, correct? 

CLARKE: Yes, we have named some additional defendants in the case.
We also have more of the facts in the case. 

QUESTION: Why was there a need to file an amended complaint? 

CLARKE: Amending the complaint is the usual course of events in
lawsuits. As a party learns more things the lawsuit gets changed. That is
particularly true in a conspiracy case. Conspiracies by their very nature
are secret. Our job is to try to unravel the conspiracy and that means
bringing new facts to light. We have done that, so it became necessary
for us to amend our complaint. 

QUESTION: Who were the original defendants in the case? 

CLARKE: The original defendants were the people who harassed
Patrick, including two individuals whom we named. There were two FBI
agents named, one of whom falsified reports, and the other whom we
believe was involved and knew in advance of the intimidation that Patrick
suffered. 

QUESTION: Who falsified documents? 

CLARKE: Larry Monroe, one of the FBI agents who was assigned to
Robert Fiske's office. He interviewed Patrick in the Foster death
investigation, and falsified Patrick's statements in his report. Later on the
truth surfaced in the London Sunday Telegraph. Foster died on July 20,
1993. Nine months later Monroe interviewed Patrick twice. Eighteen
months after that the 302's were public. Ambrose Evans-Pritchard was
following the case, but Patrick had never heard of Ambrose. Ambrose
contacted Patrick and showed him the 302's, that Patrick said lied about
what he had told the FBI. So Ambrose wrote an article that appeared in
the October 22 edition of the London Sunday Telegraph. That appeared
on U.S. newsstands on October 24th, a Tuesday. That same day the
Office of Independent Counsel prepared a subpoena for Patrick to testify
before the Whitewater grand jury the following Wednesday. They typed
it up on a Tuesday for testimony a week from the following day. But they
didn't serve it right away. They waited until Thursday, October 27th to
serve it. And that was the beginning of the intimidation Patrick suffered. 

We believe this intimidation was a civil rights violation, to intimidate a
federal witness in order to dissuade him from testifying fully, fairly, and
truthfully. We filed suit based on that. We also believe this civil rights
violation was part of a conspiracy. Under the law of civil conspiracy all
members of the conspiracy are liable and answerable for anything done in
furtherance of the conspiracy. If the civil rights violation was in
furtherance of a conspiracy, even if the defendants did not know who
Patrick Knowlton was, they are all liable for what happened to Patrick.
That is what we call the theory of the case and it's what we are
proceeding on. What we did today was file an amended complaint to
name additional defendants who were members of the conspiracy. Even
though these people did not know who Patrick Knowlton was, and even
though they did not personally harass him, they were a part of this joint
venture and that's why they are liable. 

Two things very relevant in the prosecution of Patrick's case are: (1) if
there was a cover-up surrounding the death of Vincent Foster; and (2)
who covered it up. About 10,000 pages of documents have been
released regarding the Foster death. We just recently completed our
review of these documents and got our summary down on paper. It's not
in its final form. But we are now in a position to find out who did what,
and what happened in the Vince Foster case. We have unraveled a lot of
it and that's why we added defendants in our amended complaint. 

The first defendant we added is U.S. Park Police sergeant now retired,
Robert Edwards. He was the third Park Police officer to respond to the
body site. As he was walking up to the body site the first Park Police
officer was leaving. Edwards ordered him to leave the park and return to
his duties. Edwards proceeded to the body site where Park Police officer
Franz Ferstl was photographing the body. Ferstl was the 'beat officer'; it
was his beat. He took about 7 photographs before Edwards got there.
Edwards then took Ferstl's photographs and sent Ferstl to the parking
lot. Then two other Park Police officers walked up to the body site, Lt.
Patrick Gavin and Christine Hodakievic. They stayed for a few minutes
and left. 

That left Edwards alone at the body site for about 10- 15 minutes, with
the only photographs that had been taken. Edwards then tampered with
the crime scene by moving the head to the right. This allowed blood that
had accumulated in the mouth to drain down onto the right shoulder. He
then repositioned the head straight up, leaving a contact stain on the right
side of the chin. The contact stain occurred when the chin hit the wet
shoulder. 

Edwards did that because he wanted to make it appear that the blood --
which was already on the right shoulder, right side of the shirt, and right
side of the neck and collar -- had come from the mouth. He wanted to
provide an excuse for that blood being there. You don't commit suicide
by shooting yourself in the neck, so they wanted to cover up the neck
wound. So the excuse for the blood on the right side, the OIC tells us, is
blood had accumulated in the mouth and an early observer turned the
head to the right, whereupon the blood drained out. Then this early
observer turned the head back up, leaving the contact stain on the chin.
That's right. He wanted to leave a sign of having moved the head,
because that's the excuse for the blood. His excuse for having moved the
head to the right was to open up an airway, although no one tried to
resuscitate Mr. Foster. 

We know Edwards moved the head because all of the observers before
Edwards said the blood was dry, and the witnesses after Edwards said
the blood was wet. The OIC never said who the early observer was, but
it was pretty obvious that they couldn't find anybody who said they did it
or saw it being done. So to the OIC this is an unknown person; they
didn't know who this person was, although it had to have been Edwards. 

This is important because officially there was no wound on the side of the
neck. Foster supposedly shot himself in the mouth. But he did not have
an entrance wound in his mouth. The entrance wound was on his neck.
The blood had drained from the neck. In order to conceal the entrance
wound in the neck, you have to conceal where the blood came from. So
Edwards turned the head to right to let the blood drain out, to provide an
explanation for the blood that was already there. This is also what caused
the two lateral drain tracks that came from his nose and mouth going
toward his ear. People say those tracks show he was moved to the park.
That's not really true. We believe that occurred from Edwards' actions
after the body was already at the park. 

QUESTION: Do you think Edwards was in the know about a need for
cover-up when he moved the head? 

CLARKE: You would think so, wouldn't you? 

QUESTION: His job was to do something to help cover this up? Is that
what you think? 

CLARKE: Yes, that's what I think. I don't think he all of a sudden, sua
sponte, did that on his own, with nobody telling him to. 

Anyway, the official version is that there was a mouth entrance wound
and an exit wound in the back of the head. But actually, there was no
entrance wound in the mouth, and there was no exit wound at the top of
the back of the head. There was only one visible wound from the outside,
and that was to the neck. 

QUESTION: How do you know that there was no entrance wound in
the mouth? 

CLARKE: Let's do the entrance and exit wounds at the same time.
Twenty-five witnesses saw the body before the autopsy. There is a
record of not one of them having seen an entrance wound. 

QUESTION: Well, they would not have opened the mouth, would they? 

CLARKE: That's true, although two of those persons were MD's whose
job it was to inspect the body. But there is no record of any of those 25
witnesses having seen either the mouth entrance wound or the exit wound
at the top of the head. The only reference is to officer Ferstl, who
allegedly saw an exit wound. Five Park Police officers all prepared
reports and in none of those reports was there a reference to an entrance
wound, an exit wound, or blood. 

QUESTION: I thought Dr. Haut stated he saw matted blood at the back
of the head. 

CLARKE: He did say matted blood at the top of the head. 

QUESTION: I thought he said the back of the head. 

CLARKE: Right, the top of the back of the head, where you would
expect this alleged exit wound to be. He did see blood there. But the
best evidence we have is the Park Police officer who gloved up and felt
there. That was Officer John Rolla. He said a big hole would be one he
could put his finger through. He said, "His head was not blown out. I
probed his head and there was no big hole there, there was no big
blowout. There weren't brains running all over the place. There was
blood in there, there was a mushy spot. I initially thought that the bullet
might still be in his head." He uses the word hole, but that's not what he
described as what he felt. He said if you could put your finger in it, that's
a big hole. He says he couldn't put his finger through any hole. 

QUESTION: But he did mention a hole being present, didn't he? 

CLARKE: No, although he used the word hole in general terms, he what
he says found at the back of the head was a mushy spot. A mushy spot is
not a hole. There was blood back there. What we think happened is the
bullet, after it entered under the right jaw line, went straight up and
fractured the top of the back of the head. It remained in the head. John
Rolla does not describe an exit wound, and Richard Arthur said there
was no exit wound. 

QUESTION: Who is Richard Arthur? 

CLARKE: He was in the group of the 4th to 7th people at the scene.
First on the scene was the U.S. Park Police officer, then one EMT and a
paramedic, then minutes later came Richard Arthur accompanied by 3
others. Richard Arthur was the only paramedic in that group of four. He
was the second paramedic at the body site. 

Arthur said that there was no exit wound. He was asked if he could
describe the exit wound. He said, "Was there one? I didn't know there
was one." That's the other record we have pertaining to an exit wound.
The only person we have not covered for whom there is a record of
being there is Dr. Haut. Haut said that there was a neck wound. He
wrote in his report "gunshot wound mouth-neck." 

QUESTION: That's on the second page of his report, isn't it? 

CLARKE: Yes. 

QUESTION: The first page of the report has a spot where a word,
presumably 'neck,' is evidently whited out, and another word inserted --
'head' is inserted instead. Is that correct? 

CLARKE: That report has Dr. Haut's signature on it. It is dated July 20,
1993. It is verified. It has an "I hereby certify and affirm under the laws of
the Commonwealth of Virginia," and it goes on and on. He says in effect
"I swear that I undertook an investigation of the circumstances
surrounding the death and this is what I found." Under "circumstances
surrounding death," it says, "U.S. Park Police found a gunshot victim,
mouth to neck." That's not an error. If you are the medical examiner
you're not going to say there's a neck wound unless there is. Haut's
statement is the only record of an exterior wound that anyone of 25
witnesses saw. 

Richard Arthur was interviewed five times and the best record we have
of what it was he saw was in his deposition, with no opportunity by the
FBI to spin or edit his account. He is asked the following question in the
deposition, and I'm quoting: "Let me ask you this: if I told you there was
no gunshot wound in the neck, would that change your view as to
whether it was a suicide or not?" And he responded, "No . . . what I saw
is what I saw . . . I saw a small - what appeared to be a small gunshot
wound here near the jawline. Fine, whether the coroner's report says that
or not, fine. I know what I saw." 

QUESTION: Let me make sure I understand. The only reference to a
head wound, other than a "mushy spot," would be on the first page of
Haut's report. Is that correct? 

CLARKE: Yes, on the first page. The first page says "Cause of death" in
a small area. In there it says "gunshot wound" on one line. Then "gunshot
wound" with a dash and then right under it some little black marks with
no word there, and then to the right of that it says "head." So it looks like
it originally said "gunshot wound mouth" then under it, centered properly,
was the word "neck." In order to falsify it they whited-out the word
"neck" and moved the paper a bit to the side, and then typed "head." The
reason they moved it over was because otherwise they would have to
type over the whited-out word, which would have been apparent on the
photocopies. If you type over white-out you can tell. 

QUESTION: What did the autopsy report say about the head wound? 

CLARKE: We have just covered all the witnesses up till you get to the
autopsy. The body was found on Tuesday around 6:00 p.m. The autopsy
was originally scheduled to occur Thursday at 7:00 a.m. Dr. Beyer
claimed that he rescheduled the autopsy as soon as he heard about the
case, from 7:00 a.m. on Thursday to 10:00 a.m. on Wednesday. He
rescheduled it for just 16 hours after the discovery of the body. He said it
was his idea, he didn't talk to anyone about it, no one suggested it, he just
decided to do it. 

QUESTION: Where are the records of what he said? 

CLARKE: That comes from his Senate testimony. Both of the Park
Police investigators on the case, Rolla and Cheryl Braun, had called the
Office of the Medical Examiner for Northern Virginia, Dr. Beyer's office,
Wednesday morning as they were getting off work. Rolla testified that he
waited instead of leaving work at 6:00 a.m. He said he waited until about
6:30 before calling the Medical Examiner's Office. The reason he waited
was he wanted to call to make sure they weren't going to do the autopsy
that day. They told him over the phone, "Don't worry, it won't be done till
the following day." So he went home . . . 

QUESTION: Why did he not want it done on Wednesday? 

CLARKE: There is a requirement that law enforcement officers attend an
autopsy. So he was calling to make sure he would be available to be
there, because he had just worked all night. So he went home. Braun's
story is pretty much the same. Then they both got a call about 8:30 or
9:00 saying, "We're going to have the autopsy at 10:00. Do you want to
go?" And they said "No." Four other Park Police officers attended the
autopsy instead. Normally Dr. Beyer would perform the autopsy or Dr.
Fields would. But in this case, an unknown person assisted Dr. Beyer in
the autopsy. 

QUESTION: Have you found out who that person was? 

CLARKE: No, he's named as a "John Doe pathologist" in our suit. 

QUESTION: Isn't that strange? 

CLARKE: It gets more strange. Four Park Police officers, Robert Rule
and three other personnel, go to the autopsy to witness it. There is Dr.
Beyer with his unknown, unusual assistant, whose identity is never
revealed in 10,000 pages of records. According to his deposition Robert
Rule asked Dr. Beyer who the assistant was, and Beyer refused to tell
him. He would not identify the guy who was helping him with the autopsy
to the police who were there! 

The autopsy was scheduled for 10:00, but Dr. Beyer began much earlier
than that, before the police arrived. He stripped the body, x-rayed it, and
then of all things to do he took out the tongue and portions of the soft
palate. The reason he did that, we allege, is to hide the fact that the bullet
pierced the tongue from below, and the absence of an entrance wound in
the soft palate. 

QUESTION: Is he then named as one of the new defendants in the
case? 

CLARKE: Yes, Dr. James Beyer. 

QUESTION: How about the mystery person? 

CLARKE: Yes, we call him "John Doe Pathologist." 

QUESTION: When you name somebody like that in a suit who is not
previously identified in the records, will that person's identity have to be
disclosed? Will they be required by the court now to come forward with
this person's identity? 

CLARKE: Not until discovery. We have to do discovery. 

QUESTION: You will get it through discovery? 

CLARKE: Oh, yes. 

QUESTION: You think you will? 

CLARKE: Sure. 

QUESTION: What if they say 'National Security'? 

CLARKE: (Laughs). They won't be saying that. This is the Medical
Examiner for Northern Virginia, who covered up . . . 'national security'?
They might say that but I don't think they will get away with it. We'll find
out a lot. But the astounding stuff is what we already know. Let me
continue on with the autopsy. 

There is also testimony that Dr. Beyer did not photograph the entrance
wound -- that portion of the soft palate that allegedly had the entrance
wound. Why would he not photograph that? In addition, he reported that
on the soft palate there were very large amounts of what he called
"gunpowder debris." He said it was "grossly present," meaning it could be
seen with the naked eye. He described it as "large quantities of powder
debris." He sent his 5 slides containing 13 sections of the soft palate to
the Virginia Department of Forensic Sciences. They issued a report
saying there was no ball-shaped gunpowder identified on any of those
tissue samples. 

QUESTION: When did you learn of the existence of this report? 

CLARKE: Somebody told me about it nearly a year ago. This is a very
interesting thing. The finding of powder debris on the soft palate by Dr.
Beyer is the absolute cornerstone of the entire official conclusion of
suicide in the park. 

QUESTION: That Vince Foster stuck a gun in his mouth and pulled the
trigger? 

CLARKE: Right. That is the cornerstone of the official conclusion. Now,
this Virginia Department of Forensic Science report said that no
ball-shaped gunpowder -- and ball-shaped gunpowder is the type of
powder allegedly found by Beyer -- was found. The FBI laboratory
issued a report on May 9 or 10 of 1994, which said no ball-shaped
gunpowder was identified on the tissue samples when the Office of the
Northern Virginia Medical Examiner examined them. And they didn't
really have an explanation. In June, about a month later, they issued
another lab report saying the tissue samples had been prepared in such a
way as not to be conducive to retaining unconsumed gunpowder
particles. In other words, it had been put in something -- formaldehyde
or something - - which made it disappear. 

That's a lie. That didn't happen. Depending on the type of ball smokeless
powder, the solvents, in order to destroy it, would have to be either ether
or nitroglycerin. People just don't use that to preserve tissue samples. So
Beyer was lying. And remember, that's the cornerstone of the entire
conclusion. 

When we look at everything we've just talked about, the only word we
have about this entrance and exit wound is from Dr. Beyer. You would
think out of 25 witnesses before the autopsy -- an autopsy which is
screwy from the start -- there would be some record of the entrance or
exit wound other than the neck wound, if it existed. It did not exist until
you get to the autopsy, and Dr. Beyer falsified his autopsy. 

QUESTION: Ambrose Evans-Pritchard claimed he was shown a
photograph of the neck wound, correct? 

CLARKE: Correct. Ambrose told me that; I've asked him. 

QUESTION: Have you been able to track down this photo? 

CLARKE: No. 

QUESTION: Where do you think the photo might be? 

CLARKE: I don't know. 

QUESTION: Do you know who the last person would have been to
have it? 

CLARKE: I have a couple of suspects. He was shown the photograph,
so you have to ask yourself who showed it to him. 

QUESTION: Haut? 

CLARKE: No, no. I think it was XXXXX [redacted by request]. 

QUESTION: Who else have you added to your list of defendants? 

CLARKE: After "John Doe Pathologist," next is Robert F. Bryant. At the
time of Mr. Foster's death, Bryant was Special Agent in Charge of the
FBI's Washington Metropolitan Field Office. He has since been
promoted to Deputy Director, FBI. On Friday, July 23, 1993, three days
after the death, he sent a Teletype to then Acting Director of the FBI,
Floyd Clark. Clark was the Acting Director because Sessions had been
fired a week before. Accuracy in Media got this Teletype, which is
heavily redacted, through a Freedom of Information lawsuit. What it
shows is that Bryant was sending it to confirm telephone conversations
that took place on the 21st, the day after the death. He says something
like, "This is to confirm our conversation wherein the preliminary results
of the autopsy are that there was a .38 caliber gunshot wound with no
exit wound." 

QUESTION: He said no exit wound? 

CLARKE: He confirmed the conversation with Floyd Clark in which he
said there was no exit wound. On August 10th, about 17 days after he
sent the Teletype, he appeared at a joint Park Police/FBI press
conference to announce the FBI's finding of suicide in the park. He told
everyone there a very thorough investigation showed it was a suicide in
the park. His having done that constitutes his participation in the
conspiracy. He is telling the American people, the press, that it was
suicide in the park. Seventeen days earlier he confirmed his guilty
knowledge of no exit wound. And this is the Special Agent in charge of
the Washington D. C. Metropolitan Field Office. 

QUESTION: What did Dr. Beyer's report say about an exit wound? 

CLARKE: He said it was 1 x 1.5 inch, which is about the size of a
half-dollar. Remember, it wasn't there earlier; John Rolla could have put
his finger through something the size of a half-dollar. But that's what
Beyer said. He said he put a probe through the head, and there is a
record of one of the Park Police officers having seen the probe going in
through the mouth and coming out through the back of the head. 

QUESTION: Did the Park Police officer sign a statement that he saw
that? 

CLARKE: No, but I believe that he did see that. But that Park Police
officer didn't get there until after Beyer had done God knows what to the
body. He's reported as having removed the tongue and portions of the
soft palate before the officers got there. I think he inserted the probe
before the officers got there. They walked in and saw the probe, then he
took it out. 

QUESTION: So you think he may have drilled a hole in the back of the
head to be able to put the probe through? 

CLARKE: I think the bullet went up through Mr. Foster's tongue into the
top of his head, and fractured his head. So Rolla said "I felt a mushy
spot, I thought the head was fractured, and I thought the bullet was still in
the head." He's right on all three counts is what I think. 

QUESTION: OK, Bryant is also named because in his memo to . . . 

CLARKE: There is a record of his active participation in the cover-up. 

QUESTION: Who else besides Bryant are you naming? 

CLARKE: There's Scott Jeffrey Bickett. Scott bashed Patrick's car in
with a tire iron the night before his second FBI interview. One of the
appendices at the back of Evans-Pritchard's "The Secret Life of Bill
Clinton" is a computer printout of Scott Jeffrey Bickett, showing that he
was employed by the Department of Defense. [3] He holds what is
called an "active SCI" security clearance. SCI stands for "Sensitive
Compartmented Information." That's a top U.S. government security
clearance. So this malicious attack on Patrick's car, which Bickett later
confessed to . . . 

QUESTION: He did? To whom did he confess? 

CLARKE: Coincidentally, to the U.S. Park Police who were handling
the case. They said they couldn't trace the license plate number. Luckily,
there was a limousine driver not too far away who witnessed the whole
thing, who wrote it down. 

QUESTION: Did he tell them why he bashed the car? 

CLARKE: No. So, the Park Police showed up and the limo driver gave
the license number to both the Park Police and to Patrick. A week went
by and they said they couldn't find the guy. So a private investigator was
hired on October 18, 1995, and he found Bickett in one day. The Park
Police then interviewed Bickett and he confessed. This incident was
pretty damned coincidental. It was the night before Patrick's second
interview. Patrick had two interviews. The first one was April 15, 1994,
when FBI agent Larry Monroe was leaning on him trying to get him to
admit the car he saw in the Fort Marcy Park parking lot was Vince
Foster's car. Patrick had another interview about 3 weeks later. The
incident where his car was bashed in was the night before the second
interview. He actually had a confrontation with this guy, Scott Bickett. 

Either they were trying to give Patrick a hint, or they were trying to shake
him up. His car was a 1974 refurbished Peugeot. It was just beautiful. It
was Patrick's only possession. They bashed the shit out of it right in front
of the Vietnam Memorial. Patrick and his girlfriend were showing another
couple the memorial. 

QUESTION: When did you learn of Bickett? 

CLARKE: When Evans-Pritchard's book came out. 

QUESTION: Why did you not name Bickett as a defendant to begin
with? 

CLARKE: Because we filed suit a year before that book came out. The
next new defendant I call "John Doe FBI Laboratory Technician." I'll tell
you briefly some of the things they hid. Remember, Beyer supposedly
found ball shaped smokeless powder on the body. Well, Remington
manufactured the cartridges found in the official death gun. They were
.38 HVL, which stands for high velocity ammunition. Remington has
never used ball smokeless powder in the manufacture of that ammunition.

QUESTION: So the supposed finding of the ball shaped powder on the
soft palate by Beyer is impossible in any event? 

CLARKE: I think Foster had ball powder on him, but none of it was in
the mouth. 

QUESTION: Does the presence of this particular type of powder give
you any indication what the murder weapon actually was? 

CLARKE: Yes. It's used by Winchester .22's, a small caliber gun. 

QUESTION: Whoa!! 

CLARKE: Yes, it's consistent with reloads also. 

QUESTION: Professional hit men are known to reload their ammunition.

CLARKE: That category is included. 

QUESTION: Although it seems unlikely to me that anyone would want
to reload .22 cartridges, unless they wanted very special properties. But
a professional might. 

CLARKE: Right, for up close work. The FBI lab also hid the length of
the powder burns on Mr. Foster's hands. They did not describe the
length of those powder burns. 

QUESTION: Is the official story that he had one hand over the cylinder
of the gun as he pulled the trigger? 

CLARKE: Right. And you would get a blast from the front cylinder gap. 

QUESTION: Well, on a revolver there are gaps between the cylinder
and the frame at both the front and the back of the cylinder, where some
blast might escape. 

CLARKE: You could get a little bit from the back, but these powder
burns on his hands were definitely from the front cylinder gap, and they
are huge. As the blast escapes from the cylinder gap, it is blocked at the
top and the bottom by the frame of the gun. So it comes out in a
triangular shape on both sides from the front cylinder gap, which is at the
back of the barrel. As the blast flees from the gun, it expands, so the
triangle gets larger the farther it is from the point of the blast. 

If your hand is over the cylinder when you pull the trigger, you won't get
gunshot residue on the part of your hand that is above the gun, or the part
that is below the gun. The top and bottom of the gun frame will protect
those parts of your hand. Now, if you wrap your hand around the gun at
the front of the cylinder, according to our measurements, you will have
two 2-inch burns on your hand, one on each side of the cylinder. 

QUESTION: Exactly right. 

CLARKE: Let's suppose you got somebody else to pull the trigger. You
take both hands and wrap them around the gun, but not touching the gun.
With your hands out like that, instead of 2 inches long the burns are going
to be 6 to 7 inches long. The gunshot residue deposit is shortened by
closeness of your hand to the gun and lengthened by its distance. Now,
we calculate that Mr. Foster had a 3-inch burn on the left-hand side, so
he was not touching the gun there. 

QUESTION: OK. 

CLARKE: On the right hand side he had over a 5-inch burn. 

QUESTION: So his hands were not touching the gun? 

CLARKE: On neither side. He was not holding that gun. 

QUESTION: What's he doing with his hands around but not touching a
gun that goes off? 

CLARKE: Think about it. He's in a defensive posture. The gun went off
when his hand was two inches from it on the right hand side and on the
left side maybe a half an inch. He was grabbing for the gun when it went
off! 

QUESTION: How do you know how long the burns were on each
hand? 

CLARKE: We can approximate the size of his hand. He was 6 feet 4,
and he could palm a basketball palm down in each hand. Anybody who
can do that has a 6-inch index finger. 

QUESTION: How do you know the length of the burns? 

CLARKE: We have sources in the record that tell us the burn began at
the last phalange, which is about an inch long. It extended down into the
web area of his hand. From the beginning of the last phalange to the web
area would have been 5 inches. If the burn extended into the web area,
that means it was more than 5 inches. One of the reports -- Simonello's
-- says it is also to the thumb. Simonello removed the weapon from Mr.
Foster's right hand. He said there was gunpowder on the thumb. That
means the hand could not have been in contact with the weapon when it
went off. 

QUESTION: Was his stain also the ball shaped powder? 

CLARKE: We don't know because it is residue. 

QUESTION: Is it possible that someone put the .38 in his hand and shot
the gun to make it look like he shot it? 

CLARKE: No. 

QUESTION: But the .38 had been fired, had it not? It had a spent
casing in it didn't it? 

CLARKE: One spent casing and one unspent casing. 

QUESTION: Did they do a test of the gun to see if it had been fired
recently? 

CLARKE: I don't know. I do know that they didn't test it until after they
closed the investigation. Did you know that? 

QUESTION: No. Good grief. 

CLARKE: In fact the letter requesting testing was not written until the
11th, but the case was officially closed on the 5th. A week later they
decided to send it out for testing. That was the official FBI/Park Police
investigation, which was 16 days long. 

QUESTION: Why have you added "John Doe FBI lab Technician" to
your suit? 

CLARKE: Because of the FBI report. He says the gunpowder residues
are consistent with Foster having fired the weapon. We made a model of
the weapon. You cannot pull the trigger with your hands in the position
relative the gun that Foster's must have been. His right hand was 2 inches
away from it, and the left hand about one half inch". The only way he
could have been holding it would be with his hands around it and away
from it. You can't pull the trigger like that. Even if he could reach the
trigger, he couldn't have pulled it -- it was too far away. 

QUESTION: Was he supposed to have pulled the trigger with his
thumb? 

CLARKE: Yes. 

QUESTION: So you name the FBI lab technician because he falsified
the documents, in your opinion? 

CLARKE: Yes. 

QUESTION: What you are talking about here -- you've said it yourself
more than once -- is a conspiracy that involves many, many people. 

CLARKE: Many people, but less than some might imagine. 

QUESTION: It's hard for the average person to contemplate that all of
these disparate people would be involved to falsify the record. Why
would they do that? 

CLARKE: They were evidently covering up an apparent homicide. I
don't know why they did it, why he was killed, or who killed him. 

QUESTION: What's the next step in your suit? 

CLARKE: The judge still has not ruled on the defendants' motion to
dismiss. The two FBI agents and one other named defendant who was
served in the case earlier filed a motion to dismiss. We argued that in
January. The judge has not ruled on it. It's a good thing, too, because we
have been going through thousands of pages of records pulling all of this
stuff out. 

QUESTION: I won't ask you if you trust the judge. 

CLARKE: You can say that I trust him because I do. 

QUESTION: What is his name? 

CLARKE: John Garrett Penn. 

QUESTION: Which court is the case in? 

CLARKE: U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia. 

QUESTION: Has he been there for a while? 

CLARKE: He's been there for a long time. I tried a case before him in
1989. 

QUESTION: I suppose the next step is he will make a ruling about
whether to dismiss. And if he does not dismiss, he will then look at your
amended complaint. Is that right? 

CLARKE: He really has to look at the amended complaint before ruling.
Part of the argument of the motion to dismiss is our supposed failure to
particularize the allegation of conspiracy. Our amended complaint is a lot
more particular. So he would not want to dismiss the suit without looking
at this. 

QUESTION: You think at this point with the evidence you have
presented you have overcome that objection? 

CLARKE: Yes, I thought I overcame it back then, but even more so
now. 

QUESTION: How is Patrick Knowlton doing? 

CLARKE: He's doing very well. 

QUESTION: Is he getting on with his life? 

CLARKE: We are both involved in this up to our armpits, so this is his
life for the time being. 

QUESTION: I know you are getting along partly on donations, so give
us the address to contribute to this cause. 

CLARKE: The Knowlton Legal Fund, 1730 K Street NW, Suite 304,
Washington, D.C. 20006. Donations are not tax deductible. 

 Notes

1. For more information on the Knowlton lawsuit, see an earlier
Washington Weekly interview with John Clarke at:
http://www.federal.com/feb16-98/Foster. 

2. The amended complaint in the lawsuit is available at:
http://www.aim.org/special/knowlton.htm 

3. Ambrose Evans-Pritchard, "The Secret Life of Bill Clinton," p. 416. 

 Wesley Phelan may be reached at wphlen@mtco.com 


 Published in the Oct. 26, 1998 issue of The Washington Weekly. Copyright (c)
 1998 The Washington Weekly (http://www.federal.com). Reposting permitted
with this message intact.
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 12:38:03 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Congress to Get Echelon Briefing
Message-ID: <199810290400.UAA14829@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Congress to Get Echelon Briefing
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 11:10:30 -0600
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  Wired
http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/15864.html

Spying on the Spies
 by Niall McKay 

 12:55 p.m.27.Oct.98.PST
 A Washington DC civil liberties organization will
 send a detailed report on the National Security
 Agency's top-secret spying network to members
 of Congress later this week. 

 The report, Echelon: America's Spy in the Sky,
 details the known history and workings of the
 agency's global electronic surveillance system.
 The system is reportedly able to intercept,
 record, and translate any electronic
 communication -- such as telephone, data,
 cellular, fax, email, telex -- sent throughout the
 world. 

 "There is a real and present threat to the
 security of the US from its enemies," said
 Patrick Poole, author of the report and deputy
 director of the Free Congress Foundation. "But
 there needs to be some democratic and
 constitutional oversight of how and against who
 the [Echelon] system is being used." 

 The Free Congress Foundation is hoping that
 Congress will scrutinize Echelon as carefully as
 the European Parliament has. The parliament
 commissioned several reports on Echelon earlier
 this year and the issue has been hotly debated
 ever since. 

 The NSA neither confirms nor denies Echelon's
 existence, but investigative journalists and civil
 liberties activists have turned up a number of
 details in recent years. 

 Glyn Ford, a British member of the European
 Parliament, said he sees the necessity of
 Echelon but, like Poole, he worries about the
 NSA's apparent lack of accountability. 

 "If we are going to leave the electronic key under
 the doormat, then we want an assurance that
 the people who pick up that key are not going to
 steal the family silver," said Ford. 
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 12:33:10 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: DNA bank launched as science spending rises
Message-ID: <199810290400.UAA14849@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: DNA bank launched as science spending rises
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 11:35:31 -0600
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  London Telegraph
http://www.telegraph.co.uk:80/et?ac=000150689433551&rtmo=kokJeebp&atmo=99999
999&P4_FOLLOW_ON=/98/10/28/ndna28.html&pg=/et/98/10/28/ndna28.html

DNA bank launched as science spending rises
 By Roger Highfield, Science Editor 

 A NATIONAL collection of 100,000 human DNA samples is to be
 assembled so drugs can be customised and people at risk from allergies,
 drug side-effects and serious illnesses can be identified.

 The Ł12 million plan to study the genetic landscape of the British
population,
 which includes funding to address ethical concerns, is part of a major
shift in
 the emphasis of science spending announced by the Government yesterday.
 Funding for particle physics and astronomy remains almost level while there
 is a major boost for biotechnology and molecular biology, despite the rise in
 public concern about issues such as genetically-modified food.

 Announcing the science budget allocation, Peter Mandelson, Secretary of
 State for Trade and Industry, said the overall 15 per cent increase by
 2001/02 was "solid evidence" of Government efforts to reverse the recent
 decline in spending on science, which it sees as underpinning the economy.

 The rise was announced as part of the Comprehensive Spending Review. Mr
 Mandelson said the science budget "received the largest percentage increase
 compared with all departmental budgets".

 Yesterday's allocations saw Mr Mandelson increase funding of the Medical
 Research Council (MRC) and Biotechnology and Biological Sciences
 Research Council.

 The news comes only days after America's National Human Genome
 Research Institute announced that the three-billion "letter" human genetic
 code - the genome - will be deciphered by 2003, two years earlier than
 thought. Now Britain is preparing to rise to this "post-genome challenge" by
 studying how this code varies across the British population.

 The DNA database project will be backed by the MRC, which will see its
 support rise from Ł290 million in 1998/09 to Ł334 million in 2001/02, and is
 being developed by Prof David Porteous of the MRC Human Genetics Unit
 in Edinburgh, and Prof Nick Day of the MRC Biostatistics Unit in
 Cambridge.

 The first step will be to collate information on 60,000 blood samples that
 have already been collected, for instance in studies of inherited
diseases, then
 extend the collection to people who have taken part in long-term health
 studies, some dating back more than half a century.

 Prof George Radda, MRC's chief executive, said: "In the first wave, we are
 talking of the order of 100,000 samples, then it will be extended." He
 emphasised that there were "major ethical concerns".

 By comparing the genetic blueprints of people who suffer disease, genes
 increasing the risk of illness can be identified, said Prof Porteous. He
said:
 "This is the surest way of digging out the really significant genetic
factors.
 They will be the basis of efforts to design new drugs and preventive
 measures."

 One ethical issue will be whether drug companies will be allowed to use the
 data to design drugs for a particular genetic group. The information will
also
 help doctors advise those at risk of heart disease or cancer, or to identify
 those at risk of drug side-effects.

(c) Copyright of Telegraph Group Limited 1998.
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 12:25:20 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Wanted: Y2K Workers
Message-ID: <199810290400.UAA14871@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Wanted: Y2K Workers
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 11:44:53 -0600
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  Government Executive Magazine
http://www.govexec.com/dailyfed/1098/102898b2.htm

DAILY BRIEFING

Y2K poses personnel challenges for agencies

By Brian Friel
bfriel@govexec.com

As the deadline for fixing Y2K problems in federal computer
systems draws closer, agencies are struggling to recruit and
retain information technology personnel to deal with the
millennium bug.

In a new study, "Year 2000 Computing Crisis: Status of Efforts
to Deal with Personnel Issues" (GGD-99-14), the General
Accounting Office reports that the high demand for
programmers in both the public and private sectors is making
the difficult job of repairing all federal computers even harder.

"As awareness of the criticality of the year 2000 problem
grows throughout government and industry, there is a chance
that competition for limited skilled personnel will increase. If
this more vigorous competition occurs, the government may
find it increasingly difficult to obtain and retain the skilled
personnel needed to correct its mission critical systems in time,"
GAO said.

In some agencies, the personnel problem has already surfaced.

The Farm Service Agency lost 28, or seven percent, of its 403
technology staff in the first six months of fiscal 1998. Lucrative
finders' fees and big salaries in the private sector have taken
their toll on the government's ability to hire programmers. The
Veterans Affairs Department, Justice Department and
Environmental Protection Agency reported having problems
hiring programmers.

Federal agencies aren't the only organizations having hiring and
retention difficulties. Contractors are having an equally tough
time competing for valuable workers.

For example, at the Patent and Trademark Office, Y2K fixes
were delayed three months on one of the office's systems after
a contractor was unable to hire qualified staff for the project.
PTO had to terminate its task order with the company and find
a new contractor.

A State Department contractor lost key technology personnel,
resulting in a three month delay on Y2K work for the
department's Management, Policy and Planning Information
System.

GAO noted that agencies reported delays in Y2K work for
only six mission critical systems, adding that "it is not possible
to determine the full extent or severity of personnel shortages
from these concerns because they are often anecdotal."

The federal government has taken several steps to attract Y2K
workers. The Office of Personnel Management announced that
agencies could waive the reduction of pensions for
re-employed retired military officers and waivers of the
reduction of pay for rehired civilian annuitants who need to be
brought back on to fix agency computers.

In addition, agencies can offer lump-sum payments of up to 25
percent of basic pay to a new employee or to an employee
who must relocate. Agencies can also use retention bonuses of
up to 25 percent of basic pay. Performance awards of up to
$10,000 are also available.

The President's Council on Year 2000 Conversion and the
Chief Information Officers Council are looking at ways to help
agencies hire and retain information technology staff, but GAO
said no organization is working with agencies individually to
help them find Y2K staff.
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 12:28:25 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: ECHELON: America's Spy in the Sky
Message-ID: <199810290400.UAA14896@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: Patrick Poole 
Subject: IP: ECHELON: America's Spy in the Sky
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 17:27:26 -0500
To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com

The Free Congress Foundation is pleased to announce that the fourth
installment in our "Privacy Papers" series is now available online.
Entitle "ECHELON: America's Spy in the Sky," you can read about how the
National Security Agency has established a global surveillance system
that monitors every phone, fax and email message sent around the world.
Read the report's Executive Summary below, and then read the report in
its entirety at:

http://www.freecongress.org/ctp/echelon.html

Executive Summary

In the greatest surveillance effort ever established, the US National
Security Agency (NSA) has created a global spy system, codename ECHELON,
which captures and analyzes virtually every phone call, fax, email and
telex message sent anywhere in the world. ECHELON is controlled by the
NSA and is operated in conjunction with the General Communications Head
Quarters (GCHQ) of England, the Communications Security Establishment
(CSE) of Canada, the Australian Defense Security Directorate (DSD), and
the General Communications Security Bureau (GCSB) of New Zealand. These
organizations are bound together under a secret 1948 agreement, UKUSA,
whose terms and text remain under wraps even today.

The ECHELON system is fairly simple in design: position intercept
stations all over the world to capture all satellite, microwave,
cellular and fiber-optic communications traffic, and then process this
information through the massive computer capabilities of the NSA,
including advanced voice recognition and optical character recognition
(OCR) programs, and look for code words or phrases (known as the ECHELON
"Dictionary") that will prompt the computers to flag the message for
recording and transcribing for future analysis. Intelligence analysts at
each of the respective "listening stations" maintain separate keyword
lists for them to analyze any conversation or document flagged by the
system, which is then forwarded to the respective intelligence agency
headquarters that requested the intercept.

But apart from directing their ears towards terrorists and rogue states,
ECHELON is also being used for purposes well outside its original
mission. The regular discovery of domestic surveillance targeted at
American civilians for reasons of "unpopular" political affiliation or
for no probable cause at all in violation of the First, Fourth and Fifth
Amendments of the Constitution - are  consistently impeded by very
elaborate and complex legal arguments and privilege claims by the
intelligence agencies and the US government. The guardians and
caretakers of our liberties, our duly elected political representatives,
give scarce attention to these activities, let alone the abuses that
occur under their watch. Among the activities that the ECHELON targets
are:

Political spying: Since the close of World War II, the US intelligence
agencies have developed a consistent record of trampling the rights and
liberties of the American people. Even after the investigations into the
domestic and political surveillance activities of the agencies that
followed in the wake of the Watergate fiasco, the NSA continues to
target the political activity of "unpopular" political groups and our
duly elected representatives. One whistleblower charged in a 1988
Cleveland Plain Dealer interview that, while she was stationed at the
Menwith Hill facility in the 1980s, she heard real-time intercepts of
South Carolina Senator Strom Thurmond. A former Maryland Congressman,
Michael Barnes, claimed in a 1995 Baltimore Sun article that under the
Reagan Administration his phone calls were regularly intercepted, which
he discovered only after reporters had been passed transcripts of his
conversations by the White House. One of the most shocking revelations
came to light after several GCHQ officials became concerned about the
targeting of peaceful political groups and told the London Observer in
1992 that the ECHELON dictionaries targeted Amnesty International,
Greenpeace, and even Christian ministries.

Commercial espionage: Since the demise of Communism in Eastern Europe,
the intelligence agencies have searched for a new justification for
their surveillance capability in order to protect their prominence and
their bloated budgets. Their solution was to redefine the notion of
national security to include economic, commercial and corporate
concerns. An office was created within the Department of Commerce, the
Office of Intelligence Liaison, to forward intercepted materials to
major US corporations. In many cases, the beneficiaries of this
commercial espionage effort are the very companies that helped the NSA
develop the systems that power the ECHELON network. This incestuous
relationship is so strong that sometimes this intelligence information
is used to push other American manufacturers out of deals in favor of
these mammoth US defense and intelligence contractors, who frequently
are the source of major cash contributions to both political parties.

While signals intelligence technology was helpful in containing and
eventually defeating the Soviet Empire during the Cold War, what was
once designed to target a select list of communist countries and
terrorist states is now indiscriminately directed against virtually
every citizen in the world. The European Parliament is now asking
whether the ECHELON communications interceptions violate the sovereignty
and privacy of citizens in other countries. In some cases, such as the
NSA's Menwith Hill station in England, surveillance is conducted against
citizens on their own soil and with the full knowledge and cooperation
of their government.

This report suggests that Congress pick up its long-neglected role as
watchdog of the Constitutional rights and liberties of the American
people, instead of its current role as lap dog to the US intelligence
agencies. Congressional hearings ought to be held, similar to the Church
and Rockefeller Committee hearings in the mid-1970s, to find out to what
extent the ECHELON system targets the personal, political, religious,
and commercial communications of American citizens. The late Senator
Frank Church warned that the technology and capability embodied in the
ECHELON system represented a direct threat to the liberties of the
American people. Left unchecked, ECHELON could be used by either the
political elite or the intelligence agencies themselves as a tool to
subvert the civil protections of Constitution and to destroy
representative government in the United States.


****************************************************
To subscribe or unsubscribe, email:
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 03:42:59 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199810281904.UAA08814@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1


Being paid to be paranoid, I prefer to use averages instead of
absolutes.  So your numbers would then be:

56 bits -- ( 2^56 / 3.88E12 )*0.5 = 2.6 hours
64 bits -- ( 2^64 / 3.88E12)*0.5 = 27.5 days
80 bits -- ( 2^80 / 3.88E12)*0.5 = 36.5 years
128 bits -- ( 2^128 / 3.88E12)*0.5 = 1.4E18 years.

So a brute force on a 56 bit key would take, on average, 2.6 hours--
using your computational power assumption below-- with half of all
keys brute forced being found before that time and half being found
after that time and most being found around 2.6 hours.  This is
assuming a fairly random distribution of keys within a large set of
keys to be attacked.  You can meter your level of safety by changing
the minimum average percentage of keys found (50%, 25%, 75%) to your
taste (or management's taste) or by increasing the key size.

me.

- -----Original Message-----
From:	Harvey Rook (Exchange) [SMTP:hrook@exchange.microsoft.com]
Sent:	Wednesday, October 28, 1998 11:01 AM
To:	cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject:	Speed records, and brute force state of the art.

- From the New York Times...

WASHINGTON-The Energy Department will take delivery on Wednesday of
what the
Government says is the world's fastest computer, capable of a peak
performance of 3.88 trillion calculations, or teraflops, a second. 

Just to simplify things, let's assume that 1 flop == 1 decryption. I
know
that's not true, but it's very close, and it's certainly less than one
order
of magnitude off.

So, with this assumption how long does it take to break various key
sizes?

56 bits -- 2^56 / 3.88E12 = 5.2 hours
64 bits -- 2^64 / 3.88E12 = 55 days
80 bits -- 2^80 / 3.88E12 = 9873 years
128 bits -- 2^128 / 3.88E12 = 2.8E18 years.

And now you know.

Harv.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 6.0 for non-commercial use 

iQA/AwUBNjcVv3UkEFXvH2ZAEQJRJQCeOPXRZpMwlFKHjUWktgBMRSL626sAnR/m
TJAfMTXEdf5pYW+rLiACRlWD
=WYHJ
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 11:06:09 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Forwarded mail...
Message-ID: <199810290248.UAA16922@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 00:32:00 +0100
> From: Anonymous 

> In the following snippet of pseudo-code, what should the value of
> SWAP_TIMES be to make the array A[] random, assuming
> that getrand() returned a truly random integer between
> 0 and 255
> 
> A[256];
> 
> for(i=0;i 	x=getrand();
> 	y=getrand();
> 	swap(A[x],A[y]);
> }

Each x and y is in and of itself random? If so it doesn't matter how often
you swap the elements.

While there are clearly different levels of pseudo-randomness, true
randomness is or isn't.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Frederick Burroughs 
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 11:49:55 +0800
To: Cypherpunks 
Subject: Re: MIB Subpoenas
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3637E001.F65DB99B@shentel.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





Tim May wrote:

> I advise any of you with links to the idea of anonymous murders and AP to
> do the same. Soon.

Fleeing the tidal(thoughtcrime)wave.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 12:33:56 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Assassin Report
Message-ID: <199810290351.WAA21867@camel8.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



We offer the DoJ report on assassination
intelligence and threat assessment investigations,
cited in the post on "shared traits of potential
assassins:"

   http://jya.com/ncj170612.htm  (110K)

It's quite surprising in that the recommended policy
is to not arrest potential assassins but to attempt to
persuade them to give up their plans to attack, to 
establish trust in the LEAs who are encouraged to 
listen to grievances, and helpfully arrange for 
treatment of whatever underlies the menace.

It seems that most who threaten assassination do
not go through with it, but do enjoy the attention it
gets, so the report reassuringly states. Hmm.

True, there are some indicators of imminent threat
that warrant more severe measures -- such as the
subject's acquistion of weapons, participation in 
militant organizations and persistent stalking of
targets.

And, yes, a few performance artists want to be killed 
on TV.

It says that most of the tiny number (83 in 50 years) of 
actual "assassins, attackers and near-lethal approachers" 
(compared to the far larger number who only talk 
about it) are deliberate in their planning and highly
rational about why the deed is necessary -- even
those who are mentally unstable are totally sane
in preparing for and executing attacks.

All in all, the report says assassination is not a big deal
for it doesn't happen all that much, and the task at hand 
is to prevent rash acts by friendly persuasion and TLC.
And brace for the assassins who never give a clue of
what's coming.

Amazing.

So what is going on with CJ and Jim Bell? Scare sense 
into them, followed by caregiving, or serious jail time?

Recall that the Secret Service (which co-authored the report)
had a friendly talk with CJ about assassination threats not long 
before he was arrested by Jeff Gordon. Which fits the report's
policy.

Is the IRS out of touch with progressive law enforcement? Putting
on a show for effect? Or is Washington State truly a murderous 
nest of mad dog killers? Other than Microsoft.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ulf@fitug.de (Ulf =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=F6ller?=)
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 08:02:38 +0800
To: redrook@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Using a password as a private key.
In-Reply-To: <19981027215307.3786.rocketmail@send1d.yahoomail.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>‚‚‚‚Assymetic crypto systems such as
>Diffie-Hellman, El-Gamel, and DSS, allow the private key to be a
>randomly chosen number. ‚But, as a cute hack, instead of using a
>random number, for the private key, you could use a hash of the User
>Name, and a password. 

That has been proposed in the context of elliptic curve cryptography
where the keys don't need much entropy. I think George Barwood's
pegwit works that way.

I don't like the idea though. You're giving everybody the chance to
run a password guessing attack on your secret key.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 13:14:08 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Commerce FOIA Fails - Department Orders New Search
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Delivered-To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 17:40:42 -0500 (EST)
To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
From: softwar@us.net (CharlesSmith)
Subject: IP: Commerce FOIA Fails - Department Orders New Search
Sender: owner-ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
Precedence: list
Reply-To: softwar@us.net (CharlesSmith)

Softwar is pleased to announce the successful challenge and appeal
of a failed U.S. Commerce Department Freedom of Information request.

On Oct. 13, 1998 the Commerce Department returned materials responsive
to a request on the Computer Systems Policy Project or CSPP.  The
material returned included a note from the Commerce Department stating
that this was the "final" and "complete" response.

However, the Commerce Department did not include several documents
previously obtained from both Commerce and the National Security
Council (NSC) on the CSPP.  Thus, the Commerce Department response
was neither "final" nor "complete.

Commerce officials who reviewed the Softwar appeal have agreed the
search was incomplete and did violate the Freedom of Information Act.
Commerce officials have notified me that they are now ordering the
entire agency re-do the search.

In fact, all materials from 1994 and 1995 on the CSPP were missing
from the Commerce response, including public domain reports written
by the CSPP.  The public domain reports were discovered in a previous
unrelated FOIA search of Ron Brown's files.  The 1994 and 1995 reports
included the name and address of Podesta Associates as the official
contact for CSPP.

In 1995 Bill Reinsch wrote a memo to Ron Brown detailing a secret
meeting with the CSPP, a group of computer CEOs, consisting of Apple,
AT&T, Compaq, Cray, Silicon Graphics, Digital Equipment
Corporation, Tandem, Sun and Unisys.

You can see parts of that secret meeting memo at
http://www.softwar.net/cspp.html

In 1995 the CSPP lobby group was led by Ken Kay, an employee of
Tony Podesta, the brother of White House advisor John Podesta.
In 1995, John Podesta worked at the White House running encryption
and super computer policy.  During the same period of time, the
CSPP and Clinton officials began holding a series of classified
briefings on encryption and super computer export policy.  Part of
the classified materials given to CSPP members included secret
designs for software and hardware products containing "back-doors"
to allow unrestricted monitoring by the government.

John Podesta is now Clinton's Chief of Staff.

==================================================================
FOIA appeal as follows -

SOFTWAR
7707 Whirlaway Drive
Midlothian, VA  23112

October 16, 1998

ASSISTANT GENERAL COUNSEL FOR ADMINISTRATION
ROOM 5898-C
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE
14TH AND CONSTITUTION AVE. N.W.
WASHINGTON, D.C. 20230

RE:  FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT APPEAL - CRRIF 98-166

Dear Sir/Madam:

Pursuant to the Freedom of Information Act, 5 USC 552, and to the
regulations of the Commerce Department, CDR (citation to departmental
regulations, obtainable from committee print index), I hereby appeal
the Commerce Department denial of my FOIA request dated February 10,
1998 for all information on "the Computer Systems Policy Project
(CSPP)"  (Please see example #1 - FOIA request of February 10,
1998.)

1.  The Commerce Department denial stated in the reply dated, October
13, 1998, that it has completed all searches and returned the "FINAL
response" for the FOIA request dated February 10, 1998 for all
information on "the Computer Systems Policy Project (CSPP)".
(Please see example #2 Commerce response dated Oct. 13, 1998).
The Commerce Department statement that it has completed all searches
and returned a "FINAL" result is incorrect because responsive
documents from the Commerce Department were NOT RETURNED.

2.  Several U.S. Commerce Department documents previously obtained
through the Freedom of Information Act were NOT returned by the Commerce
Department in response to the specific FOIA request dated February 10,
1998 for all information on "the Computer Systems Policy Project (CSPP)".

3.  I have attached part of one such example, two pages from a U.S.
Commerce Department memo for Secretary Ron Brown   This document is
clearly responsive to my FOIA request of Feb. 10, 1998 because the
subject material is a meeting between the Secretary of the Commerce
and CSPP members.  (Please see example #3, Memo from William Reinsch
to Ron Brown dated June 1, 1995 - CSPP MEETING).

4.  I have obtained several responsive documents that are sourced
from the U.S. Commerce Department and were NOT discovered nor returned
by the Department.  The document cited in item #3 above is only a single
example.

5.  The Commerce Department has performed an INCOMPLETE search and
is in violation of the Freedom of Information Act, 5 USC 552.  The
Commerce Department has not complied with the Freedom of Information
Act, 5 USC 552, because it is unable or unwilling to perform complete
FOIA requests.

Please reply by November 10, 1998.  If the appeal is denied, please
specify the section of the Freedom of Information Act which is being
relied on as a legal basis for the denial.

Thank you.

Charles R. Smith
================================================================
1 if by land, 2 if by sea.  Paul Revere - encryption 1775
Charles R. Smith
SOFTWAR         http://www.softwar.net      softwar@softwar.net
Pcyphered SIGNATURE:
BCD2F14ABC8673D9A29401CC86277FA620FE6A979B822B3120EEFA251BD8CB76
2AA47721F2F9ADAC14A0E2D38AB43FADD718819DB7D9874A50724ACB0B0E7E7C
6D7A633ED076B31B
================================================================
SOFTWAR EMAIL NEWSLETTER                            10/28/1998
***  to unsubscribe reply with "unsubscribe" as subject    ***
================================================================




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--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: hot248@bigfoot.com
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 13:55:12 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: What's Up!
Message-ID: <199810290516.XAA14764@gus.ntview.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain






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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: real@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 15:05:50 +0800
To: Cypherpunks 
Subject: Re: MIB Subpoenas
In-Reply-To: <3637E001.F65DB99B@shentel.net>
Message-ID: <199810290624.XAA32754@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Date sent:      	Wed, 28 Oct 1998 22:24:49 -0500
From:           	Frederick Burroughs 
To:             	Cypherpunks 
Subject:        	Re: MIB Subpoenas
Send reply to:  	Frederick Burroughs 

> 
> 
> Tim May wrote:
> 
> > I advise any of you with links to the idea of anonymous murders and AP to
> > do the same. Soon.
> 
> Fleeing the tidal(thoughtcrime)wave.

 Jeff Gordon's appearance on this list coincided with the apearance 
of a yellow streak down Tim's back.
                   Graham-John Bullers
     edmc.net           ab756@freenet.toronto.on.ca
              moderator of alt.2600.moderated
    http://www.freenet.edmonton.ab.ca/~real/index.html




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Robert A. Costner" 
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 13:32:17 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: MIB Subpoenas
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981028234903.034b1ad0@rboc.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 12:23 PM 10/28/98 -0800, Tim May wrote:
>I advise any of you with links to the idea of anonymous murders and AP to
>do the same. Soon.

Actually I was thinking of trying to get ahold of Jim Bell and get
permission to publish Assassination Politics in Hardback along with other
info.


  -- Robert Costner                  Phone: (770) 512-8746
     Electronic Frontiers Georgia    mailto:pooh@efga.org  
     http://www.efga.org/            run PGP 5.0 for my public key




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Frantz 
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 01:00:39 +0800
To: Hal Lockhart 
Subject: Re: log files (was: Re: dbts: Cryptographic Dog Stocks, The  Dirigible Biplane, and Sending the Wizards Back to Menlo Park )
In-Reply-To: <199810281713.MAA29423@postal.research.att.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 12:35 PM -0800 10/28/98, Hal Lockhart wrote:
>2) (Future) Allow only strongly authenticated users.  Either a) they are
>legitimate users whose identity is known and will presumably not try to
>hack the system, or b) they are attackers who have done something like
>steal the key of a legitimate user.  In the later case, I admit you might
>want to see what they are typing, but it will not give you any information
>about the underlying problem -- their ability to obtain unauthorized keys.

There is a long history of legitimate users who attempt to exceed their
authorization.  Double agents in the intelligence community and embezzlers
in the commercial world both come to mind.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz       | Macintosh: Didn't do every-| Periwinkle -- Consulting
(408)356-8506     | thing right, but did know  | 16345 Englewood Ave.
frantz@netcom.com | the century would end.     | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Lucky Green 
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 09:38:06 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Rootshell.com hacked via SSH
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Anybody here have any idea how this was done? This one has me rather
concerned...

http://www.rootshell.com/beta/news.html

On Wed Oct 28th at 5:12AM PST the main Rootshell page was defaced by a
group of crackers. Entry to the machine was made via SSH (secure shell)
which is an encrypted interface to the machine at 04:57AM PST this
morning. Rootshell was first informed of this incident at 6:00 AM PST and
the site was immediately brought offline. The site was back up and
operational by 8:00AM PST.

We are still in the process of investigating the exact methods that were
used. The paranoid MAY want to disable ssh 1.2.26. Rootshell runs Linux
2.0.35, ssh 1.2.26, qmail 1.03, Apache 1.3.3 and nothing else. The
attackers used further filesystem corruption to make it harder to remove
the damaged HTML files.



-- Lucky Green  PGP v5 encrypted email preferred.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Brown, R Ken" 
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 19:35:26 +0800
To: "Brown, R Ken" 
Subject: RE: Soccer Moms?
Message-ID: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F853D@MSX11002>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Petro said:

> I am currently in the process of catching up on C-punks, 
> did this get answered to your satisfaction?

And more :-)


Ken




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Joel O'Connor" 
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 21:43:52 +0800
To: brownrk1@texaco.com
Subject: RE: airline id
Message-ID: <19981029125342.6578.rocketmail@send101.yahoomail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Interesting, I like that.  It makes sense.  Bill Clinton knows all
about putting things in fromt of trains, like the two kids who found
his secret cocain dumping ground in Arkansas when he was governor, so
he dumped their two bodies on a train track and the train (spotting
them, like you said Ken) tried to stop but hit them.  Further
investigation found that they had died of a massive hemorage, but
Clinton's honest people told the public that they had "fallen asleep
on the railroad tracks and were accidently hit by a train." 
Convenient, if I've ever noticed.
    I guess the thing with trains is that they are fun and a nice
ride, but modern societies push to get there quickly escalates about
as fast as inflation, so the demand to fly is becmoming more popular
as time goes on.  I think in the future, the only need for trains will
be for shipping us cpunks off to the concentration camps, seeing as
most are only accessible by train or helicopter anyway.  We'll see
though.   




---"Brown, R Ken"  wrote:
>
> Various anonymes and Joel O'Connor discussed sabotaging trains -
> presumably in order to force 
> 
> >>you flew to.  Even with trains, all's it will take is one bomb and 
> >> youbetter believe security will be pumped up as high as it is 
> >> with airlines. 
> 
> > Naaah, you pull rail-spikes to get trains, no big ba-da-boom
required.
> > And it does happen.
> > 
> > 
> Actually you just put something on the  line. It happens all the time.
> If a fast train hits it there can be big problems.  
> 
> Even a small obstacle (like a plastic rubbish bag with rubbish in it)
> will cause a train to stop if it is seen. (Trains can't swerve). That
> just causes inconvenience, unless of course you put something
conductive
> down that shorts out the power - that has a (small) chance of
causing a
> serious accident and a (big) chance of disrupting all rail traffic for
> miles around for hours. A sort of occasionally fatal denial of service
> attack.  It appeals to 14 year olds. You too can make 75,000 people
late
> for work, cause 30,000 pounds worth of damage and possibly kill a
train
> driver. 
> 
> In fact it is so easy to do (all you need to find is a bridge over the
> line & a time when no-one is looking, and heave over  a stolen
> supermarket trolley or an old fridge door from a dump, or any other
bit
> of metal rubbish) it is almost surprising that it doesn't happen more
> often. IIRC, the IRA never tried to disrupt train traffic into or
out of
> London by putting things on the lines, always by bomb scares in
> stations. There was one real bomb on a train,  went off just after it
> arrived at Victoria, killed a couple of people. It was a train I
> regularly used, although I usually travelled later in the day. It got
> much harder to put bombs on trains, or in stations, after that. The
main
> fixes were removing the litter bins from around stations  (it took the
> IRA to teach the messy English to clean up after themselves) and
getting
> people to report unclaimed packages and then evacuating trains when
they
> were found. If you leave yout bag on the train  they stop the train.
> This makes people angry. So there is social pressure to not leave
> packages lying around on, or near,  trains.  So if you want to plant a
> bomb on a crowded train and not get blown up yourself you have a
> problem. On trains, unlike planes, you keep your luggage with you.
> 
> Also people *like* trains. They are cute. Even in America you have
> hordes of trainspotters and steam enthusiasts and model-builders and
all
> the rest. It always amazes me that bookshops have more shelves of
> hobbyist books about trains than about cars, but only about 15% of the
> population regularly travel by train and about 60% by car. (In
England -
> I guess in the USA that's more like 5% and 85% - and before you say
that
> that last figure is too low remember there are an awful lot more
> disabled, vey old, very sick or imprisoned people than most of us
notice
> - I guess that car users in the USA include just about everyone
capable
> of using a car, with the possible exception of the inhabitants of some
> parts of very big cities)
> 
> Back to the point - the reason you need id to travel on a plane is
> because people are scared of planes. Especially they are scared of
them
> falling out of the sky, depressurising or catching fire.  When
something
> goes wrong with a plane everybody can die very quickly.  When an
> accident happens to a train it usually just comes to a halt. They
don't
> have heaps of fuel on them (except if you are on an line that is still
> back in the diesel age - and even then the fuel is usually all in one
> location, separated from the passengers) You mostly don't die whan a
> train crashes, or even blows up.
> 
> Repressive laws get popular support from people who are scared. People
> are scared of plane crashes so they put up with  -no, they mostly
> applaud or even demand -  treatment  they wouldn't stand for anywhere
> else. People aren't scared of trains.  
> 
> Nobody's scared of cryptography - well, nobody wh hasn't received the
> NSA corporate injection - but some peope are scared of
> drugs/paedophiles/terrorists etc, so thats the way in for the
jackboots.
> To oppose it we need to reduce fear. 
> 
> 
> Ken Brown
> 
> (who prefers bicycles to trains but had to use the train to get to
work
> today because  of a broken spoke he is incapable of fixing. He only
does
> software)
> 
> > ----------
> > From: 	Anonymous[SMTP:nobody@replay.com]
> > Sent: 	28 October 1998 17:36
> > To: 	cypherpunks@toad.com
> > Subject: 	airline id
> > 
> > At 12:43 PM 10/27/98 -0800, Joel O'Connor wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >   
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 

==
Ogre bounces like sonar. . .Peace.
                  Ogre

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Brown, R Ken" 
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 20:23:20 +0800
To: "Brown, R Ken" 
Subject: RE: UK police chase crooks on CCTV (fwd)
Message-ID: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F853E@MSX11002>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> So when are they going to arrest Gorby and Fidel?  They killed more
people.

Castro I assume the moment he steps foot in the USA other than on a
diplomatic mission. I've no idea about   Gorbachev, I assume as a KGB
official he was party to the same sort of behaviour as Pinochet was, but
when he got to the top at least he didn't make things worse. Anyway,
what about Oliver North?  And since when did our inability to catch all
criminals stop us prosecuting the ones  we can catch?

It looks like Pinochet will probably get released in England because of
the vile, immoral, doctrine of "sovereign immunity", i.e. that people in
office don't get prosecuted for crimes committed as part of the job. But
it was still fun to see him caught. 

The real reason Pinochet ought to have the wind put up him is exactly
*because* what he did seemed to have worked and was taken to be worth
doing by some people who should know better.  Everybody knows that the
CPSU or the Nazis or Bokassa or Idi Amin or the Ba'athists are or were
tyrants who ruined their countries and  lot more besides.  The very fact
that some people who once had political credibility,  like Thatcher or
Bush, support Pinochet is exactly the reason why he should be tried. We
need to draw a line between tolerable and intolerable government and put
his lot on the other side of it.

You have to know what the threats to liberty are. Old Soviet-style
"Communism" is hardly on the menu in any European  or North American
country these days and out-and-out looney Naziism isn't either (but that
doesn't mean we shouldn't keep our eyes open)  Our direct problems are
interfering governments, bad measures taken for good ends, corporate
power over private individuals, business power over workers and
customers,  and "law and order" (or the "War against
Drugs/Paedophiles/Communists/Dangerous Dogs/Liberals/Scroungers" or
whatever). Thin end of the wedge, slippery slope, foot in the door and
all that.  And even if Pinochet's ends my have been good his means were
as bad as they come.

His sort of ultra-nationalist, militarist authoritarian government that
pays lip service to libertarianism whilst using brutal methods to
enforce conformity, obedience and uniformity is still a threat today. It
bubbles under the surface in the blue-rinse wing of the British Tory
Party, and is quite explicity the line of the French Front National (the
British National Front are genuine Nazis, and pretty marginalised, but
the FN get real votes in France)   And when they get the upper hand then
the cattle-prod wielders and the toe-nail-pullers and the death squads
come out of the woodwork.   Margaret Thatcher wasn't any kind of
fascist,  but the differences are quantitative, not qualitative.  She
wasn't so far from Pinochet, Pinochet wasn't so far from Franco and
Franco wasn't so far from hell.

Ken Brown (whose bosses not only have nothing to do with this note &
wouldn't approve of it if they did, but probably voted for some of the
people the first draft ranted against)





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Brown, R Ken" 
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 20:42:00 +0800
To: nobody@replay.com>
Subject: RE: airline id
Message-ID: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F853F@MSX11002>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Various anonymes and Joel O'Connor discussed sabotaging trains -
presumably in order to force 

>>you flew to.  Even with trains, all's it will take is one bomb and 
>> youbetter believe security will be pumped up as high as it is 
>> with airlines. 

> Naaah, you pull rail-spikes to get trains, no big ba-da-boom required.
> And it does happen.
> 
> 
Actually you just put something on the  line. It happens all the time.
If a fast train hits it there can be big problems.  

Even a small obstacle (like a plastic rubbish bag with rubbish in it)
will cause a train to stop if it is seen. (Trains can't swerve). That
just causes inconvenience, unless of course you put something conductive
down that shorts out the power - that has a (small) chance of causing a
serious accident and a (big) chance of disrupting all rail traffic for
miles around for hours. A sort of occasionally fatal denial of service
attack.  It appeals to 14 year olds. You too can make 75,000 people late
for work, cause 30,000 pounds worth of damage and possibly kill a train
driver. 

In fact it is so easy to do (all you need to find is a bridge over the
line & a time when no-one is looking, and heave over  a stolen
supermarket trolley or an old fridge door from a dump, or any other bit
of metal rubbish) it is almost surprising that it doesn't happen more
often. IIRC, the IRA never tried to disrupt train traffic into or out of
London by putting things on the lines, always by bomb scares in
stations. There was one real bomb on a train,  went off just after it
arrived at Victoria, killed a couple of people. It was a train I
regularly used, although I usually travelled later in the day. It got
much harder to put bombs on trains, or in stations, after that. The main
fixes were removing the litter bins from around stations  (it took the
IRA to teach the messy English to clean up after themselves) and getting
people to report unclaimed packages and then evacuating trains when they
were found. If you leave yout bag on the train  they stop the train.
This makes people angry. So there is social pressure to not leave
packages lying around on, or near,  trains.  So if you want to plant a
bomb on a crowded train and not get blown up yourself you have a
problem. On trains, unlike planes, you keep your luggage with you.

Also people *like* trains. They are cute. Even in America you have
hordes of trainspotters and steam enthusiasts and model-builders and all
the rest. It always amazes me that bookshops have more shelves of
hobbyist books about trains than about cars, but only about 15% of the
population regularly travel by train and about 60% by car. (In England -
I guess in the USA that's more like 5% and 85% - and before you say that
that last figure is too low remember there are an awful lot more
disabled, vey old, very sick or imprisoned people than most of us notice
- I guess that car users in the USA include just about everyone capable
of using a car, with the possible exception of the inhabitants of some
parts of very big cities)

Back to the point - the reason you need id to travel on a plane is
because people are scared of planes. Especially they are scared of them
falling out of the sky, depressurising or catching fire.  When something
goes wrong with a plane everybody can die very quickly.  When an
accident happens to a train it usually just comes to a halt. They don't
have heaps of fuel on them (except if you are on an line that is still
back in the diesel age - and even then the fuel is usually all in one
location, separated from the passengers) You mostly don't die whan a
train crashes, or even blows up.

Repressive laws get popular support from people who are scared. People
are scared of plane crashes so they put up with  -no, they mostly
applaud or even demand -  treatment  they wouldn't stand for anywhere
else. People aren't scared of trains.  

Nobody's scared of cryptography - well, nobody wh hasn't received the
NSA corporate injection - but some peope are scared of
drugs/paedophiles/terrorists etc, so thats the way in for the jackboots.
To oppose it we need to reduce fear. 


Ken Brown

(who prefers bicycles to trains but had to use the train to get to work
today because  of a broken spoke he is incapable of fixing. He only does
software)

> ----------
> From: 	Anonymous[SMTP:nobody@replay.com]
> Sent: 	28 October 1998 17:36
> To: 	cypherpunks@toad.com
> Subject: 	airline id
> 
> At 12:43 PM 10/27/98 -0800, Joel O'Connor wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   
> 
> 
> 
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 21:54:54 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Shuffling (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810291325.HAA19001@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 22:10:08 -0800
> From: Alex Alten 
> Subject: Re: Shuffling

> The concept of swapping to get a random string of bits is very interesting.
> >From what I understand when one shuffles a deck of 52 cards 7 or more times
> the card order becomes unpredictable e.g. random.

Only if it is a 'fair' shuffle. There are poker players I've met who could
put a given card anywhere in the deck after 4-5 shuffles.

>  The shuffle must be
> what is called a "near perfect" shuffle.

Perfect for who? Idealy the 'perfect' shuffle (if I understand your meaning
of perfect) would be for each card in each deck-half to interleave 1-to-1.
This does not produce random anything, it does make it very hard for people
to count cards, which is why you shuffle - not to create a necessarily
random ordering of the cards, just so mis-ordered nobody can remember what
the sequence was and predict reliably what the sequence will be. This is
incredibly important in games like poker or rummie where the cards pile up
and players can see the sequence (and if they can remember it use it).

This is also the reason that all games involving shuffled cards strictly
call for a neutral party to shuffle and deal, falling back to the players
only for 'friendly' games. Really smart 'amateur' players as you call them
also make sure that he who deals is not he who anties first.

I've never quite understood where this 'shuffle equal random' theory so 
many people have comes from (historicaly). But it is fun to play against
them because they also (usualy) only shuffle the cards once to twice before
a deal.

Even un-even shuffles aren't prevention from short-sequence card counters.
I impliment this when I play poker, it's helpfull to figure out how many
cards to draw because it's possible to estimate the 'distance' between a
short set of cards (eg a royal flush) after the shuffle.

> In other words the cards can't
> strictly alternate from each hand (with a half deck each), but must be 
> slightly random, in the sense that sometimes 2 or 3 cards may drop from a
> hand before a card drops from the other hand.

Unfortunately, professional croupie's don't practice for this. They practice
for a perfect inter-leave.

>  An amateur shuffle, like
> the one I perform, where the cards clump as they drop, may require 100's 
> of iterations before the order becomes totally unpredictable.  BTW, if
> I remember correctly the number of people in the world who can execute a 
> perfect shuffle at a professional rate (about 8 times a minute?) 
> consistently is somewhat less than 30.

8 time a minute? That's a pretty slow shuffle. Where did you get this number
from? A really quick proffessional shuffle doesn't take 3 seconds.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 22:05:11 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: update.399 (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810291330.HAA19060@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 10:48:06 -0500 (EST)
> From: physnews@aip.org (AIP listserver)
> Subject: update.399

> NONLOCALITY GETS MORE REAL.  "Bell's Inequalities," the
> set of mathematical relations that would rule out the notion that
> distant quantum particles exert influences on each other at
> seemingly instantaneous rates, have now been violated over record
> large distances, with record high certainty, and with the elimination
> of an important loophole in three recent experiments, further
> solidifying the notion of "spooky action at a distance" in quantum
> particles.  At the Optical Society of America meeting in Baltimore
> earlier this month, Paul Kwiat (kwiat@lanl.gov) of Los Alamos and
> his colleagues announced that they produced an ultrabright source
> of photon pairs for Bell's inequality experiments; they went on to
> verify the violation of Bell's inequalities to a record degree of
> certainty (preprint at p23.lanl.gov/agw/2crystal.pdf). Splitting a
> single photon of well-defined energy into a pair of photons with
> initially undefined energies, and sending each photon through a
> fiber-optic network to detectors 10 km apart, researchers in
> Switzerland (Wolfgang Tittel, Univ. Geneva,
> wolfgang.tittel@physics.unige.ch) showed that determining the
> energy for one photon by measuring it had instantaneously
> determined the energy of its neighbor 10 km away--a record set by
> the researchers last year but now demonstrated in an improved
> version of the original experiment. (Tittel et al., Physical Review
> Letters, 26 October 1998.) A University of Innsbruck group
> performed Bell measurements with detectors that randomly switched
> between settings rapidly enough to eliminate the "locality loophole,"
> which posited that one detector might somehow send a signal to the
> other detector at light or sub-light speeds to affect its reading. 
> (Weihs et al., upcoming paper in Phys. Rev. Lett., website at
> http://www.uibk.ac.at/c/c7/c704/qo/photon/_bellexp/)

> TUMOR GROWTH CAN BE FRACTAL.  A curve is fractal if when

> CORRECTIONS.  Update 397---Among nuclei for which gamma


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Chip Mefford 
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 21:39:22 +0800
To: "Brown, R Ken" 
Subject: RE: airline id
In-Reply-To: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F853F@MSX11002>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>  but some peope are scared of
> drugs/paedophiles/terrorists etc, so thats the way in for the jackboots. 
> To oppose it we need to reduce fear. 

Thats the most interesting POV I've ever heard
of in these discussions, seems like for the most part, 
we counter fear arguments with other fear arguments,
Never saw this before. Bears more examination.

> 
> Ken Brown




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 23:16:52 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: A nationhood under seige: Is the nation obsolete?
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Holy shit. The Fourth Estate figures it out.

Of course, the answer to the question, "Omigawd! There's gonna be no
nation-states, dude!", is, the same answer to the question "Egad! The
Church has no more earthly power!"

Which is, "So?".

:-).

Mort a le infame, as Voltaire used to say...

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga

--- begin forwarded text


Delivered-To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 06:41:34 -0500
From: Richard Sampson 
Organization: Unknown Organization
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: "ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com" 
Subject: IP: A nationhood under seige: Is the nation obsolete?
Sender: owner-ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Richard Sampson 

A nationhood under seige: For 350 years, the world has been governed by
the pri
A nationhood under seige: For 350 years, the world has been governed by
the principle of national sovereignty, but the new global economy
respects no national borders, laws, or interests. Is the nation
obsolete?<
Three and a half centuries after the nations of the world won the power
of self-rule, a new force has come along to erode that power and
undermine the democratic rights of their citizens.
That force is the global economy, which is relocating the economic
decisions that frame the lives of citizens far beyond the reach of the
voters and their voice.

There's a sort of cruel historical irony here, that at the very moment
when liberal democracy has finally triumphed over all rival systems of
government, the power of markets - the other half of the post-Cold War
triumph - has come along to leech that democracy of much of its
meaning.

This weekend is the 350th anniversary of the Peace of Westphalia, a
treaty signed in 1648 by the Holy Roman Empire with France and Sweden
and, especially, with the princes of the various German principalities.
This treaty not only ended the Thirty Years' War, but also severely
limited the ability of the Empire and the church of Rome to intervene
in the affairs of the German principalities.

In other words, Westphalia proclaimed the sovereignty of the
principalities, the right of the princes to rule their territories
without outside interference.

This idea of sovereignty has echoed down the three and a half centuries
since then and is the basis both of self-government and of
international relations.

Considering all the massacres, pogroms, persecutions, gulags and
holocausts of the past 350 years, this principle of sovereignty leaves
something to be desired. But it's what we have, the magnetic pole of
the international system.

More important for those lucky enough to live in democracies,
Westphalia is the basis of democratic self-rule, the idea that the
average citizen has a say in the decisions that affects his or her
life. Somebody else may make the decisions, but citizens have the right
to cast their votes and state their opinions, confident that these vote
and opinions will be heard by the decisionmaker who, one way or
another, must pay attention.

It's this right and this confidence that are vanishing in the face of
the global economy, which is the one really new thing under the sun.

The reason is that democracy is national and so are its institutions.
Governments are national and their power to make and enforce laws is
national. The power of the vote is felt at national levels, but not
beyond.

But the nation-based industrial economy that underwrote the growth of
democracy is being replaced by a global economy, powered by global
capital markets and global communications, answering to the needs and
demands of global corporations and investors who can and do ignore
frontiers.

In short, an extremely important part of public life _ the economy _ is
going global in a way that politics and government have not, and so is
moving beyond any kind of democratic control.

As Americans and the rest of the world have learned in the past year,
impersonal global markets can and do cast instant judgments on entire
societies, dictate the spending decisions of government and unravel the
social contracts that used to bind corporations with their employees
and their societies.

Peter Drucker, the founder of modern management, has written that we
are in an ''age of social transformation,'' one of those historical
eras that happen ''every few hundred years,'' when, ''within a few
short decades, society rearranges itself _ its worldview; its basic
values: its social and political structure: its arts: its key
institutions.''

Such transformations, like the global economy itself, are not innately
evil forces. Instead, they are amoral but immensely powerful movements
that change civilizations. But all such movements are created by humans
and potentially controllable by humans, for good or for ill.

A century after the Industrial Revolution, societies tamed the economic
forces generated by this revolution and turned them into the market
democracy that enhanced the past 50 years of Western history. No such
taming of the Global Revolution _ or even a debate on how to do it _
has begun yet.

The old economy was built on a national consensus that economies exist
for societies, not the other way around. Over the past half-century,
the democracies created social markets _ capitalist structures that
insisted the companies share the cost of citizenship.

Tax laws required companies to pay their fair share to the places where
they made their money. Other laws gave rights to unions, protected
worker safety and the environment, and mandated good health and pension
plans. Companies accepted these laws, however grudgingly, if only
because it cost them no competitive edge: all their rivals, subject to
the same laws, faced the same costs.

Now, not only capital markets have escaped into cyberspace, beyond the
reach of national regulations. There are about 50,000 global
corporations who see the globe as a single market and ignore national
borders and regulations.

These are no longer multinationals, with most of their operations in
one country but with a few foreign branches. The global economy is
being driven by global corporations who see the globe as a unit. They
have their headquarters in one country, research and development in
others, accounting in still another, manufacturing scattered across the
world, with sales wherever there are customers.

These companies have gone global because, with the advent of global
communications, they can. But in the process, they have left behind
their old home and its laws.

Too often, companies now pay taxes and wages where the rates are lowest
and the laws loosest. In many countries, environmental or benefits
regulations are nonexistent. Many other countries are willing to waive
them for companies that will invest there.

In this atmosphere, businesses argue they can no longer afford the
social costs imposed on them by society, when their rivals may be
operating halfway around the world, in a place where the average wage
is $1 per day and environmental laws don't exist. Either, they say,
they must be allowed to break the social contract, busting unions and
negotiating easier regulations and dumping health and pension plans, or
they must go abroad themselves.

Often they do both. Good jobs go away and the ones that are left
somehow pay less, are more unstable and are less likely to come
equipped with pension or health plans.

Wolfgang Reinicke, a senior economist at the World Bank, has written
that this is an attack on ''internal sovereignty,'' the ability of an
elected government to really govern.

The laws remain intact, but the ability to enforce them disappears.
Government exists but its effectiveness and efficiency are eroded. The
economy rolls on, but the public's ability to insist that it benefit
society is eroded. Elections are held and votes counted, but the power
of that vote to promote particular policies wobbles and wanes.

The economic rights won by citizens over the centuries, from collective
bargaining to decent wages to job stability to pensions, often
depending on the power of national governments to enforce them. As this
power withers, so do the rights.

Small wonder that government is held in such low esteem these days and
politics derided. A government that cannot enforce its own laws is a
government fit only for scandals and other sideshows. The main event is
going on somewhere else, and neither Washington nor its subjects knows
where it is.

There oughta be a law, a global one replacing the national laws and
bringing this economy back under democratic control. In fact, there are
laws, lots of them, with more being written every day, but the voters
aren't being asked to help write them.

Around the world, bureaucrats, experts, lawyers and lobbyists are
writing a new web of global regulations, on stock markets, accounting,
banking, investment, even auto safety and drug trials. These talks
aren't exactly secret but the government isn't going out of its way to
publicize them. They are highly technical and, frankly, pretty boring.

But they're important. They're writing the rule book for the 21st
Century. New global tax laws haven't been written yet, and
environmental or labor regulations are barely a gleam in a bureaucrat's
eye. But they'll be written someday, if only because the global economy
otherwise will be a jungle.

But when they are written, they'll look a lot like the regulations
already framed. That is, they will be technical exercises, focused on
efficiency and the well-being of corporations, not on democracy or the
public health.

Nations and corporations have different interests. Nations want to
raise the living standards of their citizens, while corporations want
to raise their profits. The glory of the past 50 years rests on the
creation of the social market, with the drive of capitalism tempered by
the needs of society, enabling both to thrive.

This 20th-Century thrust has focused on the rights of citizens, as
individuals or as classes. The new rule-making focuses on the safety
and efficiency of markets and corporations. They are making the world
more secure and predictable for investment and trade, which is vital
for the creation of an honest market. But it caters to the needs of
global actors, not the folks at home.

De-regulation nationally is being replaced with re-regulation globally.
But in the process, governments are giving away power from national
bodies to global institutions. But governments exist by democratic
sufferance. These global bodies do not.

The growth of the global economy requires global governance. But
increasingly, as Reinicke has written, this is turning into
''governance without government,'' public functions wielded by bodies
with no public control.

Pat Buchanan, the commentator and onetime presidential candidate, has
called for a ''new economic nationalism'' that, essentially, calls for
derailing the global economy with barriers on trade, limits on
immigration and an all-around isolationism that, apart from its basic
selfishness, is a national solution to a global problem and, hence,
futile.

The right answer is to recognize that the global economy exists and
won't go away, and to tame and temper it with a new social market,
composed of new laws and rules in which the public, for a change, has a
voice. For a start, the government should never negotiate new global
rules that supersede national rules without making a sort of democratic
impact statement on what this will mean to the rights of citizens.

This is a ''new economic internationalism'' in which American
democratic institutions would cooperate with the democratic
institutions of other countries to recapture the sovereignty of both.

(This is an adaptation of the Richard W. Leopold Annual Lecture that
R.C. Longworth, a Chicago Tribune senior writer, delivered at
Northwestern University this month.)

KRT PERSPECTIVE is a forum for essays by staff writers from
contributing papers.

(c) 1998, Chicago Tribune.

-0-

Visit the Chicago Tribune on America Online (keyword: Tribune) or the
Internet Tribune at http://www.chicago.tribune.com/

Distributed by Knight Ridder/Tribune Information Services.

AP-NY-10-28-98 0611EST<   -0-
By R.C. Longworth
Chicago Tribune


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--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Burnes - Denver 
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 01:32:20 +0800
To: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Subject: Re: IP: Electronic March
In-Reply-To: <199810290400.UAA14741@netcom13.netcom.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>      A US grass-roots group has kicked off the Billion Byte March, calling
> itself the first Internet march on Washington. The aim is to send a million
> emails to Congress in January, on the day of the State of the Union
> Address. Why? To reform America's social security system. See
> http://www.march.org  
>   

Not bloody likely.  Inside the social (in)security fund you will find
a big IOU to the tune of many billions of dollars.  In fact, to the tune
of the entire value of the SS fund.

If they end up "saving" social insecurity its most likely that they
will stick to the same game as Doritos (paraphrased)

"Spend all you like...we'll print more!"

To understand why SS has never really been in jeopardy, you must understand
the function of a central, fractional-reserve banking system.  Since
the Fed is a lender of last resort to the government, and since the
US federal government is never likely to voluntarily let social 
(in)security die they will simply print more money.

I don't mean literally print more money.

I mean the fed government sells bonds to cover the difference.  If
the bond market won't absorb it, the federal reserve is bound by 
contract t absorb it.

Just some entries in a ledger to them.  Just some inflation, hidden
taxes and future interest payments to you.

jim




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Eric Cordian 
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 01:18:00 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Two ISPs Seized Over Usenet Content
Message-ID: <199810291636.KAA12618@wire.insync.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



New York State Attorney General Dennis Vacco, who is running for
re-election, is crowing and posturing this morning over having seized
two ISPs, Dreamscape in Syracuse, and Buffnet in West Seneca, over the
content of the newsgroup alt.binaries.pictures.pre-teen, thus making a
small dent in the distribution of "filth" to ignorant citizen-units.
 
A running gag in abpep-t for the last several years has been for
newsgroup posters to identify themselves as various faculty belonging
to a mythical "Pedo University" when responding to trolls.  Vacco
believes this imaginary organization to be a "International Child
Pornography Ring" which he has broken up.
 
13 individuals in various countries were also arrested on various
child pornography possession, trading, and promotion charges, related
to activity in the newsgroup, and 34 are still under "investigation",
according to this morning's AP wire.
 
alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.pre-teen continues merrily onwards, and
is presently discussing the arrests and seizures, minus a few of its
regular participants.
 
While the loss of two small ISPs and a dozen or so patrons is unlikely
to bring the uncensorable worldwide Usenet to its knees, this appears
to be a small first step towards eroding the legal notion that common
carriers are immune from liability over Usenet content.
 
exerpts...
 
  NEW YORK (AP) -- Authorities say they have broken up an
  international child pornography ring dubbed ``Pedo
  University'' in which suspects swapped sexually explicit
  information, pictures and video online.
 
  ...
 
  Thirteen people were in custody and more arrests were
  expected.
 
  As many as 34 people were still under investigation. New
  York state police seized two Internet providers, Dreamscape
  ISP in Syracuse and Buffnet.net ISP in West Seneca.
 
  ...
 
  Both allegedly carried Pedo University news groups, a type
  of electronic bulletin board similar to a chat room.

-- 
Eric Michael Cordian 0+
O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division
"Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 01:45:59 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Shuffling (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810291716.LAA19879@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: iang@cs.berkeley.edu (Ian Goldberg)
> Subject: Re: Shuffling (fwd)
> Date: 29 Oct 1998 16:16:41 GMT

> The "7 times" theorem uses the following model of a shuffle:
> 
> o The deck is cut into two parts, with the number of cards in each piece
>     binomially distributed (with mean 26, of course).

> o The resulting deck is then achieved by having cards fall from one or the
>     other of the two parts; a card will fall from one of the parts with
>     probability proportional to the number of cards remaining in the part.

The only problem I see with this model, re real card decks, is that the
probability for a given card to fall to the top of the shuffled pile isn't
related in any way to the number of cards in either stack in a real-world
shuffle.

It also doesn't address the problem of 'clumping' where a group of cards (ie
royal flush) stay together through the shuffling. This is the reason that
real dealers try for a 1-for-1 shuffle each time.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Lynn.Wheeler@firstdata.com
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 17:06:18 +0800
To: Bill Frantz 
Subject: Re: log files (was: Re: dbts: Cryptographic Dog Stocks, The Dirigible Biplane, and Sending the Wizards Back to Menlo Park )
Message-ID: <882566AC.006D5F01.00@lnsunr02.firstdata.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



in fact, large number of security studies show that variety of operations
are at greatest risk from insiders.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 17:05:45 +0800
To: coderpunks@toad.com
Subject: bug in my Maurer code; retraction of claim; ref
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981029122825.007d1cd0@m7.sprynet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




There was a numerical bug in the C code for Maurer's Univ. Stat. Test
for Randomness which I posted.  The "float" variable "Sum" 
should be "double".  This will cause an incorrect input-size dependence
for large >40Mbyte files.

Measuring (with the fixed version) the output of a block cipher in feedback
mode, I find that it DOES NOT differ from truly nondeterministic noise, as
I had claimed.  The difference I had observed was due to a larger sample
size for my cipher-noise.  Boy do I feel stupid.

Needless to say, sorry about any inconvenience.

The fixed code follows at the bottom.  This version also spits out
an early estimate after a million samples; this turns out to be
very close to the final value for (homogenous) large samples.


Also:

I recently found the following amendment to Maurer's work
at http://www.eleves.ens.fr:8080/home/coron/escience.html#1

Abstract. Maurer's universal test is a very common randomness test, capable
of detecting a wide gamut of statistical defects. The algorithm is simple
(a few Java code lines), flexible (a variety of parameter combinations can
be chosen by the tester) and fast.
Although the test is based on sound probabilistic grounds, one of its
crucial parts uses the heuristic approximation:
c(L,K) = 0.7 - 0.8/L + (1.6 + 12.8/L)K-4/L
In this work we compute the precise value of c(L,K) and show that the
inaccuracy due to the heuristic estimate can make the test 2.67 times more
permissive than what is theoretically admitted.
Moreover, we etablish a new asymptotic relation between the test parameter
and the source's entropy.
09/08/98 - Jean-Sébastien Coron





.....................................


/*
UELI.c
28 Oct 98

This implements Ueli M Maurer's
"Universal Statistical Test for Random Bit Generators"
using L=16

Accepts a filename on the command line;
writes its results, with other info, to stdout.

Handles input file exhaustion gracefully.

Ref: J. Cryptology v 5 no 2, 1992 pp 89-105
also on the web somewhere, which is where I found it.

-David Honig
honig@sprynet.com


Built with Wedit 2.3, lcc-win32
http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~lcc-win32


26 Sept CP Release
Version Notes:

	This version does L=16.  It evolved from an L=8 prototype
	which I ported from the Pascal in the above reference.

	I made the memory usage reasonable
	by replacing Maurer's "block" array
	with the 'streaming' fgetc() call.


27 Oct 98 compiled under Sun cc OK if C++ stuff taken out..
28 Oct 98 made "Sum" into a double, from float; fixes
		a bug found with larger (40M files); reposted
		with retraction.




Usage:
	ULI filename
	outputs to stdout

*/

#define L 16		// bits per block
#define V (1<
#include 


int main( int argc, char **argv )
{
FILE *fptr;
int i;
int b, c;
int table[V];
double sum=0.0;
int run;

// Human Interface
printf("UELI 27 Oct 98 double-precision, with early value\n L=%d %d %d \n",
L, V, MAXSAMP);
if (argc <2)
	{printf("Usage: ULI filename\n"); exit(-1); }
else
	printf("Measuring file %s\n", argv[1]);

// FILE IO
fptr=fopen(argv[1],"rb");
if (fptr == NULL) {printf("Can't find %s\n", argv[1]); exit(-1); }

// INIT
for (i=0; i
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 02:21:51 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Interesting Articles...  Micro jet engine for Wearable power?
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Resent-Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 12:03:26 -0500
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 09:50:40 -0500
Organization: Scientific-Atlanta
MIME-Version: 1.0
Subject: Re: Interesting Articles...  Micro jet engine for Wearable power?
To: "wear-hard@haven.org" 
From: Pete Hardie 
Sender: phardie@sciatl.com
Resent-From: wear-hard@haven.org
X-Mailing-List:  archive/latest/5435
X-Loop: wear-hard@haven.org
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: wear-hard-request@haven.org

Mark Willis wrote:
> single spool turbojet
> 12mm OD x 3mm long (Tiny!) Weighs 1 gram...
> Rotor speed: 2.4 million rpm
> Combustor temp: 1600deg K
> Output: 13 grams thrust, or 16W electrical
> Fuel: Hydrogen @ 7 grams/hr.
>
>   Fuel for 2-3 hours would fit in a CO2 cylinder sized container or so
>   They use air bearings, and a *silicon* spool, no nickel metal
> sintered exotics here...  This little puppy will run a wearable nicely
> when it gets to production!  (The original is for a small surveillance
> aircraft, 16W power budget isn't bad though!)  I imagine it puts out
> some heat, of course...

But that annoying roar and jet of flame.....

--
Pete Hardie                   |   Goalie, DVSG Dart Team
Scientific Atlanta            |
Digital Video Services Group  |

--
Subcription/unsubscription/info requests: send e-mail with subject of
"subscribe", "unsubscribe", or "info" to wear-hard-request@haven.org
Wear-Hard Mailing List Archive (searchable): http://wearables.ml.org

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 17:27:53 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Random array (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810291908.NAA20468@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 17:33:29 +0100
> From: Anonymous 
> Subject: Re: Random array

> A couple responders have said there is no SWAP_TIMES
> which would work. But I don't understand why the
> following wouldn't work:
> 
> First of all, make sure that x and y can't be equal, since
> there's no point in swapping an element with itself. This
> should add a negligible amount of time.
> 
> 	x=getrand();
> 	do
> 		y=getrand();
> 	while (x == y);
> 
> Now, simply calculate how many SWAP_TIMES it would take for it
> to be equally as likely that an element would not be touched as
> it would to land in its original spot.
> 
> (255/256)^(t*2) = 1/256
> 
> or
> 
> t = ln(1/256)/(2*ln(255/256))
> 
> or
> 
> 708.3955
> 
> 
> Another anonymous wrote:
> 
> In the following snippet of pseudo-code, what should the value of               
> SWAP_TIMES be to make the array A[] random, assuming                            
> that getrand() returned a truly random integer between                          
> 0 and 255                                                                       
>                                                                                 
> A[256];                                                                         
>                                                                                 
> for(i=0;i         x=getrand();                                                            
>         y=getrand();                                                            
>         swap(A[x],A[y]);                                                        
> }                                                                               
>                                                                                 
> Thanks
> 

Actualy the optimal value is even easier to calculate.

Given an initial array, A(m), and the desire to randomly swap the contents
until there is sufficient entropy to pass the various statistical tests
leaves us with:

Given m initial element and we are swapping them two at a time then we
need to execute at most m/2 swaps to randomize the array.

So, the optimal SWAP_TIMES ends up being, in this case, 128.

This of course doesn't touch on the new rule above about testing for x=y.
In which case you could simply do it over again. Now given that there are
m elements and the odds of selecting any given one is 1/n and the odds of
selecting it twice at one time is 1/n^2.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: RedRook 
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 17:17:59 +0800
To: bill.stewart@pobox.com
Subject: Re: don't use passwords as private keys (was Re: Using a password as a private key.)
Message-ID: <19981029221752.26488.rocketmail@send102.yahoomail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



You don't know you have to destroy a key file, until it is too late.
Until then, it's just laying around waiting for some one to copy and
crack. If you are paranoid enough to assume your opponent is going to
torcher you to get your signature password, you should assume that he
already has your keyfile, and is willing to torcher you to get it's
password.

Thus coercion and dicitonary attacks are moot points. That is, if your
password is good enough.

So, what's worse; guarding a high entopy password with a low entropy
password, or trying to memorize a high entropy password?

Harv


Adam Back  wrote:
>
> 
> Some people have been talking about using passwords as private keys.
> (By using the passphrase as seed material for regenerating the private
> and public key).
> 
> I don't think this is a good idea.
> 
> You can't forget passphrases.  You can destroy private key files.
> 
> Therefore you open yourself up to coercion, and forward secrecy is not
> possbile with these schemes.  This means it is less secure.
> 
> The other reason it is less secure others commented on: you provide an
> open target for dictionary attacks.  I wouldn't want to do that, even
> with high entropy passphrase, it loses one important line of defense:
> unavailability of private key file.
> 
> Adam
> 
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Duncan Frissell 
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 17:06:35 +0800
To: "Brown, R Ken" 
Subject: RE: UK police chase crooks on CCTV (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F853E@MSX11002>
Message-ID: <4.0.2.19981029092518.03f5bdf0@panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 05:41 AM 10/29/98 -0600, Brown, R Ken wrote:
>> So when are they going to arrest Gorby and Fidel?  They killed more
>people.
>
>Castro I assume the moment he steps foot in the USA other than on a
>diplomatic mission. I've no idea about   Gorbachev, I assume as a KGB
>official he was party to the same sort of behaviour as Pinochet was, but
>when he got to the top at least he didn't make things worse. Anyway,
>what about Oliver North?  And since when did our inability to catch all
>criminals stop us prosecuting the ones  we can catch?

Castro was in Spain on the same day Spain tried to extradite Pinochet.
Pinochet is accused of murdering 4K people.  Castro murdered many more than
4K people.  Gorby had a couple of massacres during his regime.  One in the
Baltics and as I recall one in Georgia.  I'm sure collectively he killed
more than 4K of people.  He no longer has diplomatic immunity either.  My
point is not that we shouldn't grab them it's that the "Human Rights
Community" is politically discriminatory and wouldn't think of going after
commies.

How about Mandella.  The Truth and Reconcilliation Commission report says
that the ANC was guilty of plenty of human rights violations.

>The very fact
>that some people who once had political credibility,  like Thatcher or
>Bush, support Pinochet is exactly the reason why he should be tried. We
>need to draw a line between tolerable and intolerable government and put
>his lot on the other side of it.

The very fact that some people who once had political credibility, like FDR
or Henry Wallace, support Joe Stalin is exactly the reasom why he should be
tried.  We need to draw the line...

And how about all those American commies whose cancelled paychecks from
Moscow we recently recovered from the KGB files.  

And what about the Butcher of Waco?

>You have to know what the threats to liberty are. Old Soviet-style
>"Communism" is hardly on the menu in any European  or North American
>country these days and out-and-out looney Naziism isn't either 

Be careful with this argument because Pinochet could propose a necessity
defense.  If you say communism is worse, then he can say he had to do it to
prevent communism.  

Also, "human rights violation" is a vague charge.  There are students in
the UK who are mad at Red Tony for the human rights violation of starting
to charge college tuition and depriving them of a free college education.

American tax cutters are regularly accused of the "human rights violation"
of letting people keep more of their own money.

It can hardly be illegal for governments to kill their own citizens.  They
do it all the time.  The US governments kill hundreds or thousands every
year depending on how you do the math.  

Better to use straight criminal law (or revolution) and inevitably let some
heads of state escape justice than to indulge in the ex post facto
political law represented by "crimes against humanity."

DCF

 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Alex de Joode 
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 23:03:28 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: IP: Crypt Wars, UK-Style
Message-ID: <199810291416.PAA15950@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



In article <199810290400.UAA14769@netcom13.netcom.com> some1 wrote:

:    CRYPT WARS, UK-STYLE

:      UK's Privacy International has awarded the Department of Trade and
: Industry a Big Brother award for its contribution to invading privacy. The
: DTI wants all companies offering encrypted services to be licensed, which
: means using a third party holding keys to the user's encryption code.
: Encryption licensed outside the UK will not be recognised, and thus would
: not be protected by law. And only the recommendation of senior police is
: needed to get a key - users aren't allowed to know if their key has been
: given to the police. More Big Brother awards at http://www.privacy.org/pi/  

Hmm would like to see on which EC directive/law they base this exclusion
of 'foreign' (ie EC) TTP's.

--
Alex de Joode | International CryptoRunners | http://www.replay.com
         'A little paranoia can lengthen your life'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: iang@cs.berkeley.edu (Ian Goldberg)
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 01:00:38 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Shuffling (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199810291325.HAA19001@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <71a4d9$vsm$1@abraham.cs.berkeley.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



In article <199810291325.HAA19001@einstein.ssz.com>,
Jim Choate   wrote:
>Forwarded message:
>
>> Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 22:10:08 -0800
>> From: Alex Alten 
>> Subject: Re: Shuffling
>
>> The concept of swapping to get a random string of bits is very interesting.
>> >From what I understand when one shuffles a deck of 52 cards 7 or more times
>> the card order becomes unpredictable e.g. random.
>
>Only if it is a 'fair' shuffle. There are poker players I've met who could
>put a given card anywhere in the deck after 4-5 shuffles.
>
>>  The shuffle must be
>> what is called a "near perfect" shuffle.
>
>Perfect for who? Idealy the 'perfect' shuffle (if I understand your meaning
>of perfect) would be for each card in each deck-half to interleave 1-to-1.
>This does not produce random anything, it does make it very hard for people
>to count cards, which is why you shuffle - not to create a necessarily
>random ordering of the cards, just so mis-ordered nobody can remember what
>the sequence was and predict reliably what the sequence will be. This is
>incredibly important in games like poker or rummie where the cards pile up
>and players can see the sequence (and if they can remember it use it).

The "7 times" theorem uses the following model of a shuffle:

o The deck is cut into two parts, with the number of cards in each piece
    binomially distributed (with mean 26, of course).
o The resulting deck is then achieved by having cards fall from one or the
    other of the two parts; a card will fall from one of the parts with
    probability proportional to the number of cards remaining in the part.

   - Ian "Who took a course in Randomized Algorithms last year"




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mixmaster 
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 09:52:31 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <149dd87864f91b7efecc26d6611b4a49@anonymous>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Can someone do a fill in/summary/recapitulation? I'm not sure I understand all of this and the MIB stuff...


-----Original Message-----
From: Anonymous 
To: cypherpunks@toad.com 
Date: Tuesday, October 27, 1998 8:45 PM


:[Two letters received by fax on 27 October 1998]
:
:----------
:
:[Letter 1, cover and 16 pages]
:
:8 September 1998
:
:Cover Sheet
:
:Declan
:
:The Good News is that I have a pen to write
:with, due to the Free Enterprise System being
:alive & well within the Prison System.
:
:The Bad News is that Micro$oft Pens (TM)
:controls 95% of the market...
:
:I am hoping you can share as much of this
:communique as possible with the CPUNX,
:since my chain is constantly getting yanked
:in different directions, making outside contact
:sporatic & unreliable.
:
:Feel free to reserve for your own use any
:of the enclosed information you need for your
:own journalistic purposes.
:
:I will try to reach you by phone (automated
:collect-call system requiring touch-tone on
:your end).
:
:Thanks for the Mags,
:
:                     CJ Parker
:
:ps# My prison cell mirror now reads,
:"Chocolate Skelter." (Brownie & Milk)
:
:------------------------------------------------
:
:[FLORENCE NUTLY NEWS - "I'M HERE BECAUSE I
:believe that the KONTROLLERS are taking
:actions that create obstacles to the freedom
:and openess of the Internet. ~Truth Glaser]
:
:Declan,
:
:Looks like you may be receiving the *only* copy
:of the Florence Nutly News, since I have, up
:until now, been writing on paper towels and
:medicine cups, using combinations of blood,
:sperm and chocolate (two of which are in short
:supply) for ink, and I will soon be headed
:to Nutly News Head (pardon the pun) Quarters
:in Springfield, Missouri, for Rewiring of
:my Brain Circuity.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Chip Mefford 
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 17:06:48 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: 4 Horseman not so bad..
In-Reply-To: <199810292139.WAA21195@replay.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





On Thu, 29 Oct 1998, Anonymous wrote:

> At 07:52 AM 10/29/98 -0500, Chip Mefford wrote:
> >>  but some peope are scared of
> >> drugs/paedophiles/terrorists etc, so thats the way in for the jackboots. 
> >> To oppose it we need to reduce fear. 
> >
> >Thats the most interesting POV I've ever heard
> >of in these discussions, seems like for the most part, 
> >we counter fear arguments with other fear arguments,
> >Never saw this before. Bears more examination.
> 
> 
> Right.  The new Happy Net campaign.
> 
> Druggies.. why, they're friendly enough to
> be elected officials in such peaks of civilization as D.C. and L.A.
> And the more successful recreational pharmaceutical merchants 
> are luxury-car and mobile telecomm early adopters!
> 
> Pedophiles.  Well, consider that Kennedy and his babysitter..
> You'd still vote for him, right? 
> 
> Terrorists.  Well, shoot, everyone needs to express themselves
> some times.  One day you're a terrorist, the next you're boosting
> the POTUS's ratings a few points with a handshake.  
> 


Well, 

Sorry, I don't mean to sound pollyanneish, thats not my point.
Its just a point of view I had never heard expressed before, and
I thought it was interesting. 

Fighting fear with more fear isn't working. 
Its just that simple, a different approach 
I think is worthy of investigation. 

thats all

> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   
> 
> 
> 
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Igor Chudov @ home" 
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 08:25:14 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: test
Message-ID: <199810292351.RAA25980@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



test




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 08:42:36 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Shuffling (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810300024.SAA21942@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 19:22:52 +0100
> From: Anonymous 
> Subject: Re: Shuffling

> For any N greater than two, the random-swap algorithm cannot produce
> a perfectly smooth randomization of A[N].

If by 'perfectly smooth randomization of A[N]' you mean that any two
members of A[N] have equaly likelyhood to be swapped, and hence any pattern
of A[N] members being possible with equal odds then this is incorrect.

For that arrangement to be relevant your (P)RNG function must choose any
element from 0 to N with equal odds, it's probability curve must be a
horizontal line at 1/n for each N. If it ain't you aren't going to randomly
shuffle the elements of A[] since each element doesn't have the same odds of
being selected in this (or every other) turn.

> A perfect randomization of A[N] would give equal probability to each of
> the N! (N factorial) possible rearrangements of A.

Ah, but there aren't N! rearrangements of A if we are limited to only
swapping two elements. There are at best n^2.

Allow me to explain...

> Each iteration of the random-swap algorithm makes two choices of the N
> values to swap.  There are N^2 possible ways these two choices could go.

Ok, we shoot off our first random number, 1/n. We then shoot off our second
random number, also 1/n. The combination is 1/n * 1/n or 1/n^2. Now if we
add the stipulation about the i'th and i+1'st numbers not being identical
then the odds are 1/n * 1/n-1 (note that this boundary condition is
artificial and may in fact be problematic, there is no logical reason to
keep i and i+1 from being the same n if we want truly random behaviour).

> To calculate the probabilities after an iteration, we try all the N^2
> choices and count how many instances of each arrangement are produced.

Huh? What probability are we calculating here, the odds of getting the
particular pattern we have now generated? If so that is either 1/n^2 or
1/n(n-1) depending on the boundary condition.

> This gives each possible arrangement a probability in the form of
> k/N^2, where k of the N^2 choices led to that arrangement.

What arrangement, the one we start with before or after the swap? If we
start with arrangement I and then swap two elements we get I+1. There are
only two ways to get to any particular arrangment. An identical arrangement
where we swap i with itself (ignoring the potential boundary condition)
and the arrangement where the l'th and j'th elements are swapped. As long as
we're only swapping two elements there can only be two possible parent
patterns for any given resultant pattern. Now if we swap more than 2
elements it gets big fast.

I seem to be reading an implication that given a particular pattern, I, there
is some rhyme or reason to the pattern of previous I's that got us here,
there isn't. For any given pattern there is a infinite number of potential
paths that would get to any particular.

Let's say we have:

[ 0  1  2  4  3 ]

and we shuffle and get,

[ 0  4  2  1  3 ]

or,

[ 0  1  2  4  3 ]

Now if the question is how many possible ways could be have gotten to the
original, [ 0  1  2  4  3 ], then there are two ways to calculate that,

given no stipulation on reptitions we get:

n^2

given a stipulation for no repetitions we get:

(n)(n-1)

We can generalize this somewhat if we let s represent our current sequence
and our goal is to determine the number of possible previous states the
sequence could have held.

s-1 = n^2

or,

s-1 = n(n-1)

Now if we want to calculate the number of possible parent generations for
s-1 *from the perspective of s0* we get:

s-2 = (s-1)^2 = (n^2)^2

or,

s-2 = (s-1)((s-1)-1) = (n^2)((n^2)-1)

Thus,

s-3 = (s-2)^2 = ((s-1)^2)^2 = ((n^2)^2)^2

or,

s-3 = (s-2)((s-2)-1) = ( (n^2)((n^2)-1) )( ((n^2)((n^2)-1) )-1) =

(n^4 - n^2)( (n^4 - n^2) - 1)

for the second form only,

s-4 = (s-3)((s-3)-1) = ((n^4-n^2)((n^4-n^2)-1))(((n^4-n^2)((n^4-n^2)-1))-1)

    = ((n^4-n^2)^2 - (n^4-n^2)) (n^4-n^2)^2-(n^4-n^2))-1)

(I'm going to stop here trying to resolve this equation, I don't have the
time. Note that the relation is i(i-1) for each generation so we only
need to affix a relation to i and the generation number. It's worth noting
this can be resolved recursively.)

These can be generalized for the first form to:

C(s-i) = n^(2^i), where i is the number of generations going back.

The inverse makes a handy measure of entropy as well as telling you the odds
of selecting any particular path from one pattern to another pattern given
the number of elements swaps that are allowed.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 17:21:50 +0800
To: bill.stewart@pobox.com
Subject: don't use passwords as private keys (was Re: Using a password as a private key.)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981028012129.008334d0@idiom.com>
Message-ID: <199810292120.VAA01702@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Some people have been talking about using passwords as private keys.
(By using the passphrase as seed material for regenerating the private
and public key).

I don't think this is a good idea.

You can't forget passphrases.  You can destroy private key files.

Therefore you open yourself up to coercion, and forward secrecy is not
possbile with these schemes.  This means it is less secure.

The other reason it is less secure others commented on: you provide an
open target for dictionary attacks.  I wouldn't want to do that, even
with high entropy passphrase, it loses one important line of defense:
unavailability of private key file.

Adam




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 17:06:59 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199810292107.WAA18137@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1


excuse this bandwidth.

me
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 6.0 for non-commercial use 

iQA/AwUBNjiEBHUkEFXvH2ZAEQJ11wCdEEcGeWaOWjrNZ2e22a0Q5WtRMtIAmwQH
JkSiA2UUrB6pahgHqA0dvIYc
=8qn4
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jan Dobrucki 
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 17:02:12 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Super computer SR2201 at PJWSTK
Message-ID: <3638DF42.6B7618BB@hyperreal.art.pl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I got news for you all. I'm applying for an account on a super
computer which we got in our school. I need to write the reason why I
need to have such an account. The reason why I want to put is: to
break a DES-56 bit key encrypted message. I don't know if my
applications for the account will be accepted, but if you got any
ideas now as to how you'd like to use the computational power of a
super computer, just let me know...

http://www.pjwstk.waw.pl/sr2201/index.html this is the address to the
page at my school about the SR2201, but it's in polish... i might
translate it one day soon...
Looking foreward to your comments and ideas.
JD

PS. My return address is somewhat messed up.
Just send mail to either the list, or to
s1180@qmail.pjwstk.waw.pl
for some reason, the server at my school, PJWSTK,
says that your domain is not accepted. For 
some reason, it says so for all domains.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 17:02:34 +0800
To: Tim May 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 12:23 PM 10/28/98 -0800, Tim May wrote:
>The first thing I did when I heard about the latest case, that of Toto, was
>to purge any private mail messages between myself and Toto or any of his
>alleged nyms. (My backups  may have old messages, but I've been trying to
>find them all and destroy or recopy them sans the Toto messages.)
>
>I advise any of you with links to the idea of anonymous murders and AP to
>do the same. Soon.

Tim,
	Betty Currie will be by to pick up the rest of the backup tapes...









  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 12:56:46 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Random array (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810300436.WAA23127@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 20:04:57 -0800
> From: Jim Gillogly 
> Subject: Re: Random array

> One could modify Greg's suggestion slightly by attaching an auxiliary
> array of 256 random numbers to each of the members of the original
> array and then using the most efficient handy sort algorithm to sort
> those random numbers, dragging along their associated original array
> elements.  This way it doesn't have a chance to interfere with the
> operation of the sorting algorithm, at the cost of an extra array.

So you've got a set of arrays that have 256 numbers in them, whether they
are random or not is irrelevant since we're going to sort them and break
their randomness. It is merely sufficient that they all be reasonably (what
the hell ever that's going to mean) different, if they're all 6's for
example it isn't going to be very interesting.

If I understand the process. Each array would cycle through in parallel
sorting 2 elements of each array. Once that was finished we'd then sort the
arrays themselves according to some process. From your description it seems
to imply that you're going to sort the 1st element descending at that point.
This in effect mis-orders each array after every sort.

This sort of system is an IFS and could lead to determinism (ie a cycle of
sort patterns that repeat endlessly) or chaos (ie a pattern that doesn't
repeat). It in and of itself doesn't guarantee any randomness merely a
continously munged sort.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 17:11:49 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: 4 Horseman not so bad..
Message-ID: <199810292139.WAA21195@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 07:52 AM 10/29/98 -0500, Chip Mefford wrote:
>>  but some peope are scared of
>> drugs/paedophiles/terrorists etc, so thats the way in for the jackboots. 
>> To oppose it we need to reduce fear. 
>
>Thats the most interesting POV I've ever heard
>of in these discussions, seems like for the most part, 
>we counter fear arguments with other fear arguments,
>Never saw this before. Bears more examination.


Right.  The new Happy Net campaign.

Druggies.. why, they're friendly enough to
be elected officials in such peaks of civilization as D.C. and L.A.
And the more successful recreational pharmaceutical merchants 
are luxury-car and mobile telecomm early adopters!

Pedophiles.  Well, consider that Kennedy and his babysitter..
You'd still vote for him, right? 

Terrorists.  Well, shoot, everyone needs to express themselves
some times.  One day you're a terrorist, the next you're boosting
the POTUS's ratings a few points with a handshake.  








  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 13:03:00 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Jim Gilmore
Message-ID: <199810300425.XAA19931@panix7.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> from ppoole@fcref.org  CfCL Weekly Update 10/30/98

***** 
Companies Create New Crypto Back Door 

Hewlett-Packard and Wave Systems announced Tuesday that they have
developed a new programmable chip that can be adjusted to match
prevailing encryption policies. This system will only allow a computer
to encrypt data to the maximum level that local regulations allow. The
new program, called EMBASSY, must be registered with a "designated local
authority", who will activate the cryptography application.

The companies behind EMBASSY are hoping that the program will meet the 
new Department of Commerce encryption export standards, which currently
place a 56-bit limit on exported software applications. While 90 percent
of countries have no domestic-use policies, the program allows law
enforcement agencies that mandate key recovery features, such as France,
to be able to obtain access to a user's encrypted files under certain
circumstances. Several countries, including the UK, Germany, France, 
Denmark, Japan and Australia have already approved the technology. The
US will not issue export license until they are certain that the
recovery elements have been tested.

Privacy advocates were critical of EMBASSY. Jim Gilmore, co-founder of
the Electronic Frontier Foundation, expressed concern that the
cooperation of Hewlett-Packard and Wave Systems with the government may
lead to more surreptitious features being included into the program.
"What other black boxes have they put in this chip? Keystroke
monitoring? Recording traffic across the bus?" asked Gilmore. "If
they're giving you a black box, who's to say what other capabilities are
actually in that chip?"

Read this related WIRED News article:
http://www.wired.com/news/news/technology/story/15848.html




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 14:09:33 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: William H. Gates III
Message-ID: <199810300528.AAA20342@panix7.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Leading digits "539"...what state was he born in?
---guy

======================================================================
SCAN THIS NEWS
10/29/98

The following information is posted on the U.S. Securities and Exchange
Commission's (SEC) "EDGAR" database located at:

http://www.sec.gov/edaux/formlynx.htm

In the "Enter a company" box, search on -

     "MICROSOFT CORP"

You'll find the following file -

      Date Filed    Forms    CIK Code     Company Name

     "02-07-1996   SC 13G/A   789019     MICROSOFT CORP"

Click on this link and you'll find the following information -

MAIL ADDRESS:
      STREET 1:               ONE MICROSOFT WAY - BLDG 8
      STREET 2:               NORTH OFFICE 2211
      CITY:                   REDMOND
      STATE:                  WA
      ZIP:                    98052-6399

FILED BY:

      NAME OF REPORTING PERSON

        S.S. or I.R.S. Identification No. of Above Person

        William H. Gates III      Social Security #: 539-60-5125


                       SECURITIES AND EXCHANGE COMMISSION
                             Washington, D.C. 20549
                                  SCHEDULE 13G
                    Under the Securities Exchange Act of 1934
                               (Amendment No. 7)*
                              MICROSOFT CORPORATION

======================================================================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Rabid Wombat 
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 10:41:58 +0800
To: Pallas Anonymous Remailer 
Subject: Re: Orwell
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




How does one sieze an ISP?

A couple of machines used to forward UseNet traffic were impounded with 
the cooperation of the service providors. Get your shit straight.

On Fri, 30 Oct 1998, Pallas Anonymous Remailer wrote:

> Some US ISP's were seized in a cyberporn bust.
> 
> Dreamscape's statement at:
> 
> http://www.dreamscape.com/dream98/statement.htm
> 
> Buffnet's at:
> 
> http://www.buffnet.com/ag/
> 
> Vacco's at:
> 
> http://www.oag.state.ny.us/press/oct98/oct28_98.html
> 
> All three worth reading. This could be a big story. The theory against
> the ISPs (not that they've been charged with a crime) is that they
> knowingly carried the newsgroups:
> 
> alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.pre-teen
> alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.early-teen
> 
> This has broader application -- alt.binaries.warez.*,
> alt.binaries.sounds.mp3, etc.
> 
> Is any ISP which carries suspect newsgroups at risk of having 
> its equiptment seized, and who draws up the blacklist of 
> newsgroups?
> 
> Or worse, is there no public blacklist at all -- just the
> hovering fear of an up-for-reelection AG swooping down. And when
> do naughty pictures start showing up in alt.fan.disney? And
> what's the AG's move then?
> 
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 17:48:00 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: FCC Proposes Location Tracking for Wireless Phones
Message-ID: <199810300903.BAA19560@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: Ari Schwartz 
Subject: IP: FCC Proposes Location Tracking for Wireless Phones
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 11:12:21 -0500 (EST)
To: policy-posts@cdt.org


   The Center for Democracy and Technology  /____/     Volume 4, Number 27
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
      A briefing on public policy issues affecting civil liberties online
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 CDT POLICY POST Volume 4, Number 27                   October 28, 1998

 CONTENTS:
(1) FCC Proposes Location Tracking for Wireless Phones
(2) Public Comment Sought - CDT Launches Citizen Action Site
(3) FCC Opens Inquiry into Wiretapping in Packet Networks
(4) Other Surveillance Features
(5) Subscription Information
(6) About CDT

  ** This document may be redistributed freely with this banner intact **
        Excerpts may be re-posted with permission of 


_____________________________________________________________________________

(1)  FCC PROPOSES LOCATION TRACKING FOR WIRELESS PHONES

Rejecting privacy arguments, the Federal Communications Commission on
October 22 proposed turning wireless phones into location tracking devices.

Ruling under the Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act of 1994
(CALEA), the Commission proposed requiring cellular and other wireless phone
companies to track the location of their customers, identifying the cell
site at the beginning and end of every call. This decision, if finalized,
would allow the FBI to get out of the privacy deal it struck in 1994 when
CALEA was adopted.  At the time, the FBI said that location information was
not required by CALEA, and the Congressional intent is 100% clear on the
point.

For background on CALEA and the FCC's proceeding, see CDT's digital
telephony page: http://www.cdt.org/digi_tele/

_____________________________________________________________________________

(2)  PUBLIC COMMENT SOUGHT - A CHANCE TO TELL THE FCC THAT CELL PHONE
TRACKING IS NOT ACCEPTABLE!

The FCC decision on cell phone tracking is only a tentative decision, known
as a Notice of Proposed Rulemaking.  The Commission is seeking public
comment on its proposal.  The public comment period has not been set, but
could be between 30 and 60 days.  Until now, the discussion on this issue
has been held by policy-makers in Washington, but this decision will affect
the entire nation. Since this will likely be the only chance for those
outside the beltway to weigh in with a comment, CDT urges citizens to let
their voice be heard.

CDT has established a special "Action" page to make it easy for citizens to
contact the FCC and file comments opposing the location tracking proposal:
http://www.cdt.org/action/filing.html

_____________________________________________________________________________

(3)  FCC LAUNCHES INQUIRY INTO WIRETAPPING IN PACKET NETWORKS

On a separate issue in the same CALEA proceeding, the Commission agreed
with CDT and other privacy advocates. The FCC said that industry's initial
plan for conducting surveillance in so-called "packet" networks was
insufficient, and the Commission asked for further technical and legal
comment.  Packet networks break communications up into many small packets,
each one consisting of a segment of content with addressing information
attached to rout it to its intended destination.  Under the industry's
proposal, carriers could have provided to the government a person's entire
packet stream, including both routing information and content, even when
the government did not have the authority to intercept the content of the
communications.  CDT argued that the carriers should be required to
separate addressing information from the content of communications and only
give the government what it was authorized to intercept.

The Commission decided that it needed to launch a technical inquiry. This
could determine the future of surveillance. The question is whether
carriers have an obligation to protect the privacy of communications the
government is not authorized to intercept.

For CDT's discussion of the packet issue, see:
http://www.cdt.org/digi_tele/980426_fcc_calea.html#ivc
_____________________________________________________________________________

(4)  OTHER SURVEILLANCE FEATURES PROPOSED

On other items sought by the FBI, the Commission tentatively decided that
carriers should be required to continue tapping parties on a conference
call after the subject of the court order has dropped off the call, and to
extract dialed number information from the content stream and provide it to
the government under a minimal standard.  In all, the Commission
tentatively accepted five out of nine new surveillance capabilities sought
by the FBI.

As of today, only a sumamry of the Commission's decision, not the full
NPRM, was not publicly available.  CDT will make the full text of the NPRM
available on-line as soon as it becomes public.

____________________________________________________________________________
____
(5) SUBSCRIPTION INFORMATION

Be sure you are up to date on the latest public policy issues affecting
civil liberties online and how they will affect you! Subscribe to the CDT
Policy Post news distribution list.  CDT Policy Posts, the regular news
publication of the Center For Democracy and Technology, are received by
Internet users, industry leaders, policymakers and activists, and have
become the leading source for information about critical free speech and
privacy issues affecting the Internet and other interactive communications
media.

To subscribe to CDT's Policy Post list, send mail to

majordomo@cdt.org

In the BODY of the message (leave the SUBJECT LINE BLANK), type

     subscribe policy-posts

If you ever wish to remove yourself from the list, send mail to the above
address with NOTHING IN THE SUBJECT LINE AND a BODY TEXT of:

    unsubscribe policy-posts
____________________________________________________________________________
____
(6) ABOUT THE CENTER FOR DEMOCRACY AND TECHNOLOGY/CONTACTING US

The Center for Democracy and Technology is a non-profit public interest
organization based in Washington, DC. The Center's mission is to develop
and advocate public policies that advance democratic values and
constitutional civil liberties in new computer and communications
technologies.

Contacting us:

General information:  info@cdt.org
World Wide Web:       http://www.cdt.org/


Snail Mail:  The Center for Democracy and Technology
             1634 Eye Street NW * Suite 1100 * Washington, DC 20006
             (v) +1.202.637.9800 * (f) +1.202.637.0968

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
End Policy Post 4.27                                             10/28/98
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------------
Ari Schwartz
Policy Analyst
Center for Democracy and Technology
1634 Eye Street NW, Suite 1100
Washington, DC 20006
202 637 9800
fax 202 637 0968
ari@cdt.org
http://www.cdt.org
------------------------------------





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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 17:36:51 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: One Million Sign Petition to Kill IRS Code
Message-ID: <199810300903.BAA19570@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: One Million Sign Petition to Kill IRS Code
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 19:47:24 -0600
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  US Newswire
http://www.usnewswire.com/topnews/Current_Releases/1028-112.txt

NFIB: One Million Sign Petition to Kill IRS Code       
U.S. Newswire
28 Oct 12:00

 NFIB: Petition to Kill IRS Code Hits Million Signature Mark
 To: National Desk
 Contact: Jim Weidman of the National Federation of Independent
          Business, 202-554-9000

   SAN DIEGO, Calif., Oct. 28 /U.S. Newswire/ -- The National
Federation of Independent Business (NFIB) today reached a milestone
in its drive to abolish the federal tax code and replace it
with a simpler and fairer system.

   At a downtown rally here today, NFIB President Jack Faris
announced that the national petition drive calling on Congress to
sunset the current IRS code had collected its one-millionth
signature.  Onlookers cheered as Faris placed the landmark signature
atop an 18-wheeler stacked with scores of boxes bearing signed
petitions collected during the group's year-long campaign.  Labeling
the petition drive "the most ambitious tax reform initiative since
the Boston Tea Party," Faris expressed thanks to the more than 30,000
small-business owners who served as "volunteer captains, collecting
signatures on Main Streets throughout the country in this
unprecedented grassroots effort to restore reason to our tax system."

   The nation's leading small-business advocacy group, NFIB
has 600,000 members nationwide.  "We now have 1 million reasons
for Congress and the president to do what's right for small
business, and what's right for America," Faris said to a crowd
of hundreds who gathered in front of an IRS office building
for the tax reform event.  "These first 1 million petitions
will serve as the symbol as well as the fuel that keeps this
effort to abolish the code going strong.  We won't give up!"
Faris also added that "NFIB will continue to gather petitions
and grassroots support, because Washington sees the light when
they feel the heat from Main Street."

   Faris outlined his group's plan for action in the 106th Congress:
"NFIB will continue to stand up for small business on this issue and
others.  We will be a catalyst, urging Congress to sunset the IRS
code as the first step toward responsible tax reform, so that the new
century may begin under transition to a new tax system." Noting that
the nation's economy is strong, and economic optimism is high, Faris
said, "This is the right time for Congress and the president to
answer the call from grassroots America and replace our broken tax
code.  To ignore that call -- at a time when we are able to answer
it -- would be irresponsible.  One million signatures can't
be ignored."

   The San Diego rally was the latest event in NFIB's ongoing
"Campaign for Responsible Tax Reform," which was kicked off
one year ago in Independence, Mo.  Today's event was simulcast
live on the Roger Hedgecock Show on KSDO-AM (1130) and KOGO-AM
(600).

   -----
   For a copy of NFIB's Seven Steps to Responsible Tax Reform,
or any other materials related to the campaign, visit
NFIB's special Web site at www.not4IRS.org.

 -0-
 /U.S. Newswire  202-347-2770/
 10/28 12:00

Copyright 1998, U.S. Newswire
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Robert A. Costner" 
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 14:56:19 +0800
To: Information Security 
Subject: Re: William H. Gates III
In-Reply-To: <199810300528.AAA20342@panix7.panix.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981030011656.03b03cb0@rboc.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



531-539 ...Washington
according to http://www.ssa.gov/foia/stateweb.html

BTW - When you look at http://www.ssa.gov/foia/oct98hg.htm
The last two digit group issued for 539 is "39".  And according to
http://www.ssa.gov/foia/ssnweb.html the numbers are not issued in sequence,
but according to an strange method.  The early odds, then the evens, then
the rest of the odd number groups.  Just in case anyone wants to understand
how to detect bogus numbers.

At 12:28 AM 10/30/98 -0500, Information Security wrote:
>Leading digits "539"...what state was he born in?
>---guy
>
>======================================================================
>SCAN THIS NEWS
>10/29/98
...
>        William H. Gates III      Social Security #: 539-60-5125

  -- Robert Costner                  Phone: (770) 512-8746
     Electronic Frontiers Georgia    mailto:pooh@efga.org  
     http://www.efga.org/            run PGP 5.0 for my public key




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous nicolo@mach.eli
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 13:46:47 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: cohen predicts army patrols US streets
Message-ID: <199810300514.GAA01398@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




>"Terrorism is escalating to the point that Americans soon
>may have to choose between civil liberties and more
>intrusive means of protection," says Defense Secretary
>William S. Cohen

This is the classic intro into a dictatorhip and militarisation
of a society. I wonder if someone can dig up Hitler's speeches
on the subject.

>"It could happen here," Cohen said he conclued after 8
>months of studying threats under the Pentagon microscope.

Sure. I bet this has nothing to do with the surge of false
"bomb threats" in Austin and SIlicon Valley high-tech companies
or flooding mass media with descriptions of dangers from domestic
terrorism.

Public must be aware of the "presence" of undesirables first.

Who is it going to be this time, after cpunks are dealt with ?





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 21:04:19 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Bic-Assassins Convicted
Message-ID: <199810301210.HAA10534@camel14.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



CNN

http://www.cnn.com/US/9810/30/weapons.case.ap/

Two men convicted in biological weapons case

October 30, 1998

Web posted at: 3:10 a.m. EST (0810 GMT) 

BROWNSVILLE, Texas (AP) -- Two men accused of scheming to 
attack President Clinton and others with cigarette lighters 
equipped with poison-coated cactus needles were convicted 
of sending threatening e-mail. 

Johnie Wise, 72, and Jack Abbott Grebe, 43, were convicted 
Thursday of two counts of sending threatening e-mails -- one 
message to the Internal Revenue Service and one to the Drug 
Enforcement Agency. 

Grebe and Wise were acquitted on one count each of conspiracy 
to use weapons of mass destruction count and five counts each 
of sending threatening messages -- to President Clinton, U.S. 
Customs, the FBI, the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms, 
and the Secret Service. 

They could get life in prison at their Jan. 29 sentencing. 

Prosecutors said Wise schemed to modify a cigarette lighter 
so it would shoot cactus needles coated with toxins such as 
rabies, botulism, anthrax or HIV. 

Defense attorneys called idea 'silly'

Among the men's alleged targets: Clinton, the U.S. and Texas 
attorneys general, and FBI Director Louis Freeh. 

Defense attorneys called the idea "silly" and "cockamamie." 
There was never any evidence that the accused possessed 
biological weapons or tried to develop a deadly lighter. The 
e-mailed threats were vaguely worded and did not discuss the 
lighter or cactus thorns. 

Under federal law, however, the threats were enough for a 
conviction and no biological weapons were needed, prosecutors 
said. 

The men would have carried out their plan to hurt government 
employees and their families if they hadn't been arrested, 
Assistant U.S. Attorney Mervyn Mosbacker said. 

Wise and Grebe were accused of concocting the plan to threaten 
government officials with e-mails. One e-mail, sent June 12, 
was titled "Declaration of War" and a second one, sent June 26, 
said government workers had been "targeted for destruction by 
revenge." 

A third defendant, Oliver Dean Emigh, 63, was acquitted on all 
counts. He was accused of writing the June 12 message, but the 
charges against the men stemmed from the June 26 e-mail.

--

Thanks to D.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: insight@sprynet.com
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 00:33:20 +0800
To: 
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199810301545.HAA28403@cyberpass.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Oct.30th,1998

                       
Y2K  Solution!
8  Pine  Circle  Dr., Silicon  Valley, Calif.

OTC  Company  "TCFG"  21 st. Century  Frontier  Group  has
through  several  members  of  their  administrative  research
department  leaked  vital  information  about  their  companies  
efforts.

Everyone  was  tight  lipped  and  interviews  were  refused,
and  through  un-named  sources  we  have  learned  that  the  
technology  and  software  solution  are  in  the  process  of  
being  patented!

In over  1640  trials, using  various  data  systems  the  use  
of  the  new  technology  and  software  solved  the  Y2K
problem  100%  of  the  time. 

This  small  publicly  traded  company  "TCFG"  which  is  just
3  years  old  is  through  various  sources  now  negotiating
with  the  "Big  Boys"!

"TCFG"  the  letters  to  look  for!







  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Gillogly 
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 01:41:33 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com
Subject: Re: Random array (fwd)
Message-ID: <3639EF00.5B20F3A0@acm.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I said:
>> One could modify Greg's suggestion slightly by attaching an auxiliary
>> array of 256 random numbers to each of the members of the original
>> array and then using the most efficient handy sort algorithm to sort
>> those random numbers, dragging along their associated original array
>> elements.  This way it doesn't have a chance to interfere with the
>> operation of the sorting algorithm, at the cost of an extra array.

Jim Choate responded:
> If I understand the process. Each array would cycle through in parallel
> sorting 2 elements of each array. Once that was finished we'd then sort the
> arrays themselves according to some process. From your description it seems
> to imply that you're going to sort the 1st element descending at that point.
> This in effect mis-orders each array after every sort.
>
> This sort of system is an IFS and could lead to determinism (ie a cycle of
> sort patterns that repeat endlessly) or chaos (ie a pattern that doesn't
> repeat). It in and of itself doesn't guarantee any randomness merely a
> continously munged sort.

I expressed myself badly.  Steve Gibbons posted a message
to Coderpunks expressing more clearly what I had in mind:
Fill up the high bits of your N words with random numbers and
the low bits with an index from 0 to N-1.  Sort the array, then
mask off the high bits.  If the random numbers were unique, you
are left with a randomly shuffled array.
-- 
	Jim Gillogly
	Trewesday, 9 Blotmath S.R. 1998, 16:48
	12.19.5.11.12, 10 Eb 5 Zac, Seventh Lord of Night




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matt Elliott 
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 00:49:18 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: William H. Gates III
In-Reply-To: <199810300528.AAA20342@panix7.panix.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 12:28 AM -0500 10/30/98, Information Security wrote:
>Leading digits "539"...what state was he born in?
>


And just to clear up some silly misconception people have.  SSN numbers are 
not indicative of where someone was born.  Only where they applied for a 
SSN number.


Matt 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 19:22:55 +0800
To: jamesd@echeque.com
Subject: discrete log attack on 1st use of Kong signature? (Re: Using a password as a private key.)
In-Reply-To: <199810291821.TAA03804@replay.com>
Message-ID: <199810301010.KAA04282@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Anonymous writes:
> Bill Stewart writes:
> > Kong takes an interesting approach to key certification and signatures -
> > it doesn't use the "True Name" model with a Certificate Authority Trusted
> > Third Party Subject To Many Government Regulations certifying that the
> > person who has this key has that True Name.  Instead, you sign messages,
> > and it keeps a database of signed messages from peop le, and you can
> > compare a message you have with a message you've received previously to
> > see if it's signed by the same key, and you can send encrypted messages
> > to the person who sent you a previous message.
> 
> What happens if you create another key which signs an existing message,
> as was illustrated here recently in the case of Toto's key.  Can you
> convince Kong that you are the same person who sent the earlier message?

Depends if the discrete log attack anonymous used works over elliptic
curves, or if an analogous attack can be mounted on the elliptic curve
signature scheme James is using.

Anonymous wrote on his attack:

: N is the product of two primes, but each p-1 has about 16 small
: prime factors (about 25-35 bits) to allow calculating the discrete
: log efficiently.  With this choice of primes it took about three
: hours to run the discrete log.

in otherwords n is 1024 bit, p and q 512 bit, p1..p16, q1..q16 are
about 25-35 bits each:

	n = p x q
	p-1 = p1 x p2 x .... x p16
	q-1 = q1 x q2 x .... x q16

then he can take discrete logs modulo n.  With this given signature s
on message m with unpublished public key, he can compute a public and
private exponent e, d which could have signed message m:

	s = m ^ d mod n
and	m = s ^ e mod n

so compute discrete log of m mod n in base s to compute an e.  Then
compute a d using the normal: 

	e.d = 1 mod (p-1)(q-1)

If something like this worked on Kong's signatures, you would need two
signatures, or a signature on a message together with a signed public
key.  Does Kong use self signed public keys?

Adam




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Yardena Arar + Christian Goetze 
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 02:55:20 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: Random array (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199810301748.LAA25557@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



And what's so bad about doing this:

for (i=0; i < n-1; i++) {
  swap_positions(array, i, i+rand(n-i));
}

which populates the array by randomly choosing the next element?

It all comes down to knowing how good "rand()" is, anyway...


On Fri, 30 Oct 1998, Jim Choate wrote:

> 
> Forwarded message:
> 
> > Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 08:53:20 -0800
> > From: Jim Gillogly 
> > Subject: Re: Random array (fwd)
> 
> > Jim Choate responded:
> > > If I understand the process. Each array would cycle through in parallel
> > > sorting 2 elements of each array. Once that was finished we'd then sort the
> > > arrays themselves according to some process. From your description it seems
> > > to imply that you're going to sort the 1st element descending at that point.
> > > This in effect mis-orders each array after every sort.
> > >
> > > This sort of system is an IFS and could lead to determinism (ie a cycle of
> > > sort patterns that repeat endlessly) or chaos (ie a pattern that doesn't
> > > repeat). It in and of itself doesn't guarantee any randomness merely a
> > > continously munged sort.
> > 
> > I expressed myself badly.  Steve Gibbons posted a message
> > to Coderpunks expressing more clearly what I had in mind:
> > Fill up the high bits of your N words with random numbers and
> > the low bits with an index from 0 to N-1.  Sort the array, then
> > mask off the high bits.  If the random numbers were unique, you
> > are left with a randomly shuffled array.
> 
> Ah, ok I think I have it.....
> 
>  So we start out with N words (2 bytes):
> 
>    0  1  2  ...  n-2 n-1 n
>    *  *  *       *   *   *
> 
>    ^
>  15...8 7...0
>    rng   ind
> 
> So the ordering of bits 8-15 moves the originaly ordered indexes to
> positions correlated to relative magnitude of the rng part.
> 
> That certainly looks like it'd work.
> 
> Thanks for the clarification.
> 
> 
>     ____________________________________________________________________
>  
>        To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.
> 
>                                                      Confucius
> 
>        The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
>        Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
>        www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
>                            -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
>     --------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Gillogly 
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 03:57:15 +0800
To: Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer 
Subject: Re: Random array (fwd)
Message-ID: <363A10F2.D5AABA72@acm.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> And what's so bad about doing this:
> 
> for (i=0; i < n-1; i++) {
>   swap_positions(array, i, i+rand(n-i));
> }
>
> which populates the array by randomly choosing the next element?

That one's fine, and is equivalent to Knuth's Algorithm P, except
that it does two more additions per iteration.

-- 
	Jim Gillogly
	Trewesday, 9 Blotmath S.R. 1998, 19:16
	12.19.5.11.12, 10 Eb 5 Zac, Seventh Lord of Night




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 02:10:47 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Random array (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810301748.LAA25557@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 08:53:20 -0800
> From: Jim Gillogly 
> Subject: Re: Random array (fwd)

> Jim Choate responded:
> > If I understand the process. Each array would cycle through in parallel
> > sorting 2 elements of each array. Once that was finished we'd then sort the
> > arrays themselves according to some process. From your description it seems
> > to imply that you're going to sort the 1st element descending at that point.
> > This in effect mis-orders each array after every sort.
> >
> > This sort of system is an IFS and could lead to determinism (ie a cycle of
> > sort patterns that repeat endlessly) or chaos (ie a pattern that doesn't
> > repeat). It in and of itself doesn't guarantee any randomness merely a
> > continously munged sort.
> 
> I expressed myself badly.  Steve Gibbons posted a message
> to Coderpunks expressing more clearly what I had in mind:
> Fill up the high bits of your N words with random numbers and
> the low bits with an index from 0 to N-1.  Sort the array, then
> mask off the high bits.  If the random numbers were unique, you
> are left with a randomly shuffled array.

Ah, ok I think I have it.....

 So we start out with N words (2 bytes):

   0  1  2  ...  n-2 n-1 n
   *  *  *       *   *   *

   ^
 15...8 7...0
   rng   ind

So the ordering of bits 8-15 moves the originaly ordered indexes to
positions correlated to relative magnitude of the rng part.

That certainly looks like it'd work.

Thanks for the clarification.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Richard.Bragg@ssa.co.uk
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 21:13:46 +0800
To: redrook@yahoo.com
Subject: Coersion Re: don't use passwords as private keys (was Re: Using a password as a private key.)
Message-ID: <802566AD.00420227.00@seunt002e.ssa.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>From information given by a security consultant teaching a course I
attended :

The easiest way to get a password from someone is to ask them.  Many people
will tell you if you look official, friendly etc

Torture is less likely to work as people don't like to have to do
something.  They are often willing to "volenteer" information as long as
they still appear to be in control.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 03:52:41 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: FW: rules of engagement (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199810220438.XAA06083@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I'm still about 8 days behind, so excuse the question:


At 11:38 PM -0500 10/21/98, Jim Choate wrote:
>Forwarded message:
>> From: Carlos Macedo Gomes >
>> discussing at that meeting with members of EF Texas.  BTW: Whatever
>> happended to the Classified Ad project??
>It was going along fine until I made the mistake of asking when....
>I'd offered a couple of dates, nobody ever commented on them.

>I can still cover Austin, Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, Fort Worth, El Paso.
>A single paper in each city.
>
>I'd say do it like Thanksgiving Day or Christmas. I need 1 months warning.
>
>It might be kind of cool to put regular ads in with various comments like the
>1st Amendment, or questions regarding civil liberties, famous quotes, etc.
>Just sign it,

	I am not sure, but is this an idea to put the 3 line RSA Perl
implementation in the classified adds? (as near as I could gather trying to
read ahead) If not, what is it?
--
"To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a
jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a
gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather naďve, and certainly
unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust"
http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html

Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro@playboy.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 04:10:15 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: dbts: The Economic Cause of Privacy
In-Reply-To: <199810221225.OAA21798@replay.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 7:25 AM -0500 10/22/98, Anonymous wrote:
>>Remember, the reason we have no financial privacy these days is because we
>>have book-entry settlement, which relies on biometric identity, known
>>physical
>>location, and the force of a nation state as the ultimate "error-handler" to
>>prevent repudiation in the transaction protocol.
>Yes, and cars break down because there are service shops.
>Utter nonsense.
>There is no financial privacy because because those who would like such thing
>have less power (hired guns) than those who would not like it. And those with
>controlling interests in modern societies do not like it because control would
>be lost, and population harvesting (aka taxing) would have to be radically
>changed, and that is expensive. The system is self-supporting.
>
>Idea that somehow smart algorithms will bring financial privacy is a good
>starting
>point for cryptoaddict's wet dream, but in reality has the same chance of
>success as survival rate of armed citizens against the government. Zero.

	Afghanistan
	The french Revolution
	The "Revolutionary War"
	Several Countries in Eastern Europe.
>
>Use of government-controlled, issued and supervised payment
>methods/instruments
>is in place because it is proscribed, not because "money/checks, etc. exist".
                           ^^^^^^^^^^
	Prescribed. Proscribed means outlawed.

>Therefore constructing computer-assisted anon payment schemes "because it is
>cheaper that way" is pointless. Money is not there to make your life easier.
>Money exists so that you can be taxed and conditioned to desired behaviour at
>minimal cost.

	Money exists because it is easier to carry paper and coins than to
carry chickens. Taxes can occur without money.
--
"To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a
jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a
gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather naďve, and certainly
unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust"
http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html

Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro@playboy.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 03:52:31 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Shuffling (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810301934.NAA26157@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: iang@cs.berkeley.edu (Ian Goldberg)
> Subject: Re: Shuffling (fwd)
> Date: 30 Oct 1998 18:46:44 GMT

> >> o The resulting deck is then achieved by having cards fall from one or the
> >>     other of the two parts; a card will fall from one of the parts with
> >>     probability proportional to the number of cards remaining in the part.

> >It also doesn't address the problem of 'clumping' where a group of cards (ie
> >royal flush) stay together through the shuffling. This is the reason that
> >real dealers try for a 1-for-1 shuffle each time.
> 
> It actually _does_ address the normal, statistical clumping that goes on.
> It _doesn't_ address clumping that occurs because, say, you were playing
> poker while eating a peanut butter sandwich. :-)

What I was refering to was that let's say we've just finished playing a hand
of cards and the next dealer collects them from each player and stacks them
up prior to shuffling. Since the selection of cards is related to the
thickness of the two half-decks (and not a strict 1-to-1) it is reasonable
to expect an above average number of such shuffles (ones with grossly uneven
card counts, exactly what that would be I don't know), now as a player I'm
going to know about this bias and can use it to my advantage. I admit it
probably won't change the odds much but sometimes a few hundreths over a
long time can make a difference.

It seems to me the next question that needs asking is:

Given the probability model we've discussed what does the difference in
odds relating to clumping show in relation to uneven deck splitting. If
the deck is split even (26:26) v 27:25 v 28:24 v etc.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 04:12:53 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: FW: rules of engagement (fwd)
Message-ID: <199810301955.NAA26318@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 13:06:53 -0500
> From: Petro 
> Subject: Re: FW: rules of engagement (fwd)

> I'm still about 8 days behind, so excuse the question:

No. (;)

> >> discussing at that meeting with members of EF Texas.  BTW: Whatever
> >> happended to the Classified Ad project??

> >I can still cover Austin, Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, Fort Worth, El Paso=

> 	I am not sure, but is this an idea to put the 3 line RSA Perl
> implementation in the classified adds? (as near as I could gather trying to
> read ahead) If not, what is it?

That is correct, it is the 3-line RSA proposal.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Pallas Anonymous Remailer 
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 06:57:10 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Orwell
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Some US ISP's were seized in a cyberporn bust.

Dreamscape's statement at:

http://www.dreamscape.com/dream98/statement.htm

Buffnet's at:

http://www.buffnet.com/ag/

Vacco's at:

http://www.oag.state.ny.us/press/oct98/oct28_98.html

All three worth reading. This could be a big story. The theory against
the ISPs (not that they've been charged with a crime) is that they
knowingly carried the newsgroups:

alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.pre-teen
alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.early-teen

This has broader application -- alt.binaries.warez.*,
alt.binaries.sounds.mp3, etc.

Is any ISP which carries suspect newsgroups at risk of having 
its equiptment seized, and who draws up the blacklist of 
newsgroups?

Or worse, is there no public blacklist at all -- just the
hovering fear of an up-for-reelection AG swooping down. And when
do naughty pictures start showing up in alt.fan.disney? And
what's the AG's move then?




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 00:13:41 +0800
To: redrook@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: don't use passwords as private keys (was Re: Using a password as a private key.)
In-Reply-To: <19981029221752.26488.rocketmail@send102.yahoomail.com>
Message-ID: <199810301443.OAA06479@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Harv "RedRook" (is that Harvey Rook?) writes:
> You don't know you have to destroy a key file, until it is too late.

Sooo.  What does this imply you should do?  Destroy your key file on a
regular basis :-)

eg. this key:

pub  2048/2E17753D 1998/10/04 Adam Back  (FS key, Oct 98)

will be destroyed tomorrow ("FS" = Forward Secrecy), the key is my
forward secret key for October.  And this one was destroyed at the end
of last month:

pub  2048/xxxxxxxx 1998/09/01 Adam Back  (FS key, Nov 98)

etc.

This means that if someone were (say like GCHQ or ECHELON) were to be
archiving my email, and later develop an interest in reading it, they
would be out of luck.  And I wouldn't be able to help them if I wanted
to.

> Until then, it's just laying around waiting for some one to copy and
> crack. If you are paranoid enough to assume your opponent is going to
> torcher you to get your signature password, you should assume that he
> already has your keyfile, and is willing to torcher you to get it's
> password.

Forward secrecy means that only the current key file is vulnerable.

> Thus coercion and dicitonary attacks are moot points. That is, if your
> password is good enough.

Your passphrase might not be as secure as you think it is.  The sound
of you typing it whilst on the phone, or the RF noise emitted by the
keyboard controller chip may completely or partially leak it.

Adam




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 04:59:27 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: More on Bic-Assassins
In-Reply-To: <199810301955.NAA26318@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <199810302027.PAA01972@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate:

What's the buzz in TX about the Bic-Assassins?

I spoke to a reporter at the Brownsville Herald who's
been covering the case and she says that local
folks think the men were entrapped by the government
with a sting.

Her story today and others previously at:

   http://www.brownsvilleherald.com

She sent me a copy of the indictment which cites a
confidential "source" which set up the E-mail system 
used to send threats to officials (the fink promised
the messages could not be traced - ouch!). The poor 
saps were videotaped throughout their planning 
and executing the threats, thanks to the informant's 
arrangements:

   http://jya.com/wge072198.htm

The informant is named in the court docket (which shows
that the defendants' attorneys put up a fierce fight
using First Amendment and other defenses discussed
here in regard to CJ):

   http://jya.com/usa-v-wise.htm

The judge's rulings favored the government consistently, 
though.

BTW, the prosecutor says that it made no difference that
nothing was ever done to act on the threats, no Bic-lighter
or bio-weapon was ever made, that it was enough under 
the law for the threat to have been made. "Justice was
done," he said of the conviction.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 06:46:38 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Word choice
In-Reply-To: <199810241607.SAA00878@replay.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 11:07 AM -0500 10/24/98, Anonymous wrote:
>>Bee in the bonnet: A few days before CJ's arrest warrant was issued
>>the DoJ put out a study on the "Shared Traits of Potential Assassins:"
>
>>The traits:
>
>    * To achieve notoriety or fame.
>    * To bring attention to a personal or public problem.
>    * To avenge a perceived wrong; to retaliate for a perceived injury.
>    * To end personal pain; to be removed from society; to be killed.
>    * To save the country or the world; to fix a world problem.
>    * To develop a special relationship with the target.
>    * To make money.
>    * To bring about political change.
>
>How does this differ from the motives of your ordinary politician?
>

	Almost no politician (there are way too many i's in that word) is
there "To end personal pain; to be removed from society; to be killed."

>Post-revolution, will there be caliber limitations when hunting them?


--
"To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a
jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a
gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather naďve, and certainly
unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust"
http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html

Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro@playboy.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 00:49:11 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Airline id
Message-ID: <19981030163553.6307.qmail@hades.rpini.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> Naaah, you pull rail-spikes to get trains, no big ba-da-boom required.

Yow!  So buying a crowbar gets you thrown in the can
for conspiracy to possess terrorist weapons of mass destruction!



















From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 09:46:25 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Cyber force behind protest
Message-ID: <199810310113.RAA00450@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: E Pluribus Unum 
Subject: IP: Cyber force behind protest
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 06:59:50 -0500
To: E Pluribus Unum Email Distribution Network 

Cyber force 
                   

                   By Anne Williamson 

                   What is dismaying to Democrats is a cliche to
                   Republicans; no one has done as much for the
                   Republican Party over the past six years as
                   has Bill Clinton. But Bill Clinton has
                   succeeded in making another significant
                   contribution to American political life.
                   Citizenship is back with a vengeance. If you
                   don't believe me, then just check out the
                   hottest site on the Internet, freerepublic.com. 

                   Begun by a handful of concerned citizens who
                   discovered their comments regarding Clinton
                   administration corruption were being
                   censored in an AOL political chat room, the
                   website itself is the achievement of one man,
                   Jim Robinson of Fresno, California. A retired
                   software executive suffering from muscular
                   sclerosis, Robinson marshaled his outrage
                   and his resources to establish the website.
                   With nearly 10,000 posters and over 120,000
                   daily hits, Free Republic has become a
                   phenomenon, a community and -- most
                   recently -- a nascent political force of
                   mindboggling potential. 

                   Dedicated to free speech, constitutional
                   government and the exposure of government
                   corruption, Free Republic works on an
                   interactive basis. The pretext for opening
                   debate is for participants to search the Internet
                   for pertinent news articles and post them
                   under Free Republic's many topics to
                   discussion boards of which "Whitewater" --
                   the catchall Clinton scandal header -- sizzles
                   the loudest. And then -- like a decorative tank
                   of pirhanas tossed a treat by a friendly
                   barkeep -- posters move in to dissect and
                   critique the article. 

                   What emerges by the end of the fast-moving
                   discussion "thread" no longer bears the
                   prejudicial marks of journalists belonging to
                   what FR characterizes as "the lamestream
                   media." Freepers, as Lucianne Goldberg has
                   dubbed them, employ links to other Internet
                   sites for unusual citations, contrary opinions
                   and facts supportive of their various
                   arguments. Original material found wanting
                   is received no differently. Dubious sourcing
                   and fuzzy thinking take a drubbing. In fact,
                   FR's forum is rigorous enough to have helped
                   develop several contributors' writing careers:
                   Lawyer J. Peter Mulhern went from a lengthy
                   call-in encounter with Rush Limbaugh to a
                   column for The Washington Weekly after a
                   stint as an FR regular; and David Burge, the
                   IowaHawk, whose whimsical and hilarious
                   "verbal cartoons" lampooning the political left
                   make him a FR favorite, lasted just long
                   enough to get plucked by the Conservative
                   News Network. Since the posts and
                   accompanying threads are indexed and
                   archived daily, FR's history along with that of
                   the nation is readily available. 

                   Otherwise, tinker, tailor, soldier are all to be
                   found on the Forum -- a cornucopia of
                   experience and knowledge -- who are joined
                   by White House monitors, disenchanted
                   Democrats, San Francisco "soccer moms with
                   brains," discouraged feminists and the
                   occasional liberal iconoclast. New players
                   stumble onto the site usually via a link from
                   Drudge, WorldNetDaily, Town Hall or other
                   news site while still others are tipped to the
                   political cyber-salon by a friend or relative.
                   When "lurkers," who often prowl the website
                   for months, finally emerge in discussion
                   threads, their first comments almost always
                   reflect the same relief, gratitude and simple
                   awe at the human resources assembled
                   common to most posters: "I love Free
                   Republic!"; "I can't believe what I'm seeing, I
                   thought I was the only person in the country
                   concerned about this administration!"; and
                   "Free Republic forever!"; are typical of first
                   posts. 

                   The site's development has been fueled by the
                   Clintons' political thuggery. En masse, freepers
                   form one giant collective detective bent on
                   cracking a devilishly complicated case.
                   Relevant facts are assembled, questions asked
                   and informed speculation engaged in daily,
                   hour by hour. With an alert and articulate
                   investigative team numbering in the
                   thousands, the exercise makes for riveting
                   entertainment. Colorful villains enliven the
                   storyline; there's "Slick," of course, a/k/a
                   "Bent" and "Clintoon," there's "Hitlery" a/k/a
                   "Shrillery" and "Hildebeast," and there's
                   "Whorealdo," "CarVILE," "Sid Bluminsky,"
                   "George Steppinalloverus" and other
                   luminaries from the "Kneepad Democrats"
                   branch of the DNC. 

                   But FR is not just conservative angst and sly
                   mockery. The site was instrumental in the
                   quick exposure of CNN's fraudulent report
                   regarding the alleged use of nerve gas against
                   U.S. deserters during the Vietnam War, in the
                   overturning of Clinton's attempt to negate U.S.
                   federalism with Executive Order 13083
                   (signed when he was in Birmingham,
                   England) and in achieving a moratorium on
                   funding for a national identification card and
                   for re-examining the desirability of a national
                   data bank of all citizens' private medical
                   records. Emboldened by success, it was
                   shortly after the CNN fraud was revealed that
                   Free Republic evolved yet again; organized
                   political protest was undertaken by members
                   of the regional chapters which formed rapidly
                   over the summer. 

                   Ever since Labor Day, Bill Clinton has had
                   nearly every public appearance in the course
                   of his nonstop fundraising dogged by
                   determined freepers waving protest signs and
                   shouting stinging chants ("He's late, he's late,
                   he musta had a date!"). Consequently, Barbara
                   Boxer, Carolyn "Mostly-Fraud" and other
                   endangered Democrats have had to resort to
                   playing hide and seek with freepers. 

                   Some freepers suspect their growing
                   effectiveness tipped the Los Angeles Times
                   and the Washington Post to file suit several
                   weeks ago against Jim Robinson and Free
                   Republic for violation of their property's
                   copyright based on freepers posting entire
                   articles from their respective publications.
                   FR's position is that the postings and
                   discussion threads compare to neighbors
                   mulling over the daily newspapers around a
                   kitchen table and are therefore allowed under
                   the fair use doctrine, which permits the
                   nonprofit use of copyrighted material for
                   purposes of public discussion. 

                   The courts must sort it out but if I were
                   writing the script, I'd pursue Free Republic's
                   defense on the "creation of something new"
                   aspect of the fair use doctrine. The website is
                   unlike any other venue in American life; the
                   newspaper articles alone are just so much
                   fishwrapping for tomorrow's garbage, but the
                   archived material is the unique product of an
                   informed community of engaged citizenry;
                   the very purpose the founders intended free
                   speech to serve. 

                   This week Free Republic is undergoing
                   another evolutionary leap, an unintended
                   consequence of intoxicated Teamsters having
                   roughed up demonstrators earlier this month
                   in Philadelphia. After viewing television
                   footage of the incident, Jim Robinson
                   determined he'd had enough. He would, he
                   posted to the forum, travel to Washington
                   while the weather was still warm enough for a
                   lone man in a wheelchair to spend the day
                   outside the White House holding aloft a
                   protest sign. 

                   Within hours, several hundred people
                   determined that Jim Robinson wouldn't be
                   making that journey alone. Now the
                   protesters number in the thousands and Free
                   Republic's "March for Justice" has been
                   moved on account of its growing size from
                   Lafayette Park to the Ellipse and from there to
                   the Washington Monument. 

                   On Saturday, literally thousands of average
                   Americans -- people who look like your
                   neighbors because they are your neighbors --
                   from across the country, many of whom never
                   gave a thought to political protest before in
                   their lives, will have descended on America's
                   national home in order to participate in a six
                   hour grassroots protest funded out-of-pocket.
                   They will be standing with one man in
                   support of just one idea; the idea of one
                   nation, under God, with liberty and justice for
                   all. Eagles up, America! 

                   Anne Williamson, a WorldNetDaily contributor,
                   has written for the Wall Street Journal, The New
                   York Times, Spy magazine, Film Comment and
                   Premiere. An expert on Soviet-Russian affairs, she
                   is currently working on a book, "Contagion: How
                   America Betrayed Russia," a chapter of which can
                   be read online. 
-- 
******************************************************************
       E Pluribus Unum            The Central Ohio Patriot Group       
       P.O. Box 791          Eventline/Voicemail: (614) 823-8499  
       Grove City, OH  43123                                      

       Meetings:  Monday Evenings, 7:30pm, Ryan's Steakhouse         
       3635 W. Dublin-Granville Rd. (just East of Sawmill Rd.)    
   
http://www.infinet.com/~eplurib          eplurib@infinet.com     
******************************************************************


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 09:44:46 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Internet Allows Lies to Spread Far and Wide
Message-ID: <199810310113.RAA00461@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: Richard Sampson 
Subject: IP: Internet Allows Lies to Spread Far and Wide
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 09:04:48 -0500
To: "ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com" 

 Internet Allows Lies to Spread Far and Wide
Oct. 30 (Detroit Free Press/KRTBN)--When the telephone was introduced
to the American home, party lines and gossip ruled the day, as two,
three or half a dozen households shared one phone line.

Imagine, though, linking thousands of gossips on a party line. That's
how rumors called urban legends travel the Internet.

In April, the Taubman Co., the Bloomfield Hills shopping center
developer, was on the receiving end of an Internet whopper about a
mysterious stalker at the Mall at Tuttle Crossing in Columbus, Ohio.

The bad-guy-in-the-parking-lot story spread through Columbus, reaching
about 200,000 people.

Within months, the same story, which originated at least a decade
earlier -- no one knows where -- had been applied to malls as far as
San Francisco and Seattle.

Counteracting the fear sparked by such rumors takes a new approach,
and a new breed of consultants such as New York's Middleberg
Interactive On-Line Communications. Taubman turned to Middleberg with a
$10,000 retainer to stem the damage.

Amy Jackson, a consultant with Middleberg, began working on Taubman's
predicament in mid-April and kept on until mid-June.

"When Taubman came to us, the process had begun," Jackson said. "While
they had a superior PR staff, they had no experience in addressing an
Internet hoax."

The Taubman legend had the marks of a classic. "No one can identify
where it's sourced from; it's national," Jackson said. "It's a very
serious problem. There's absolutely no truth to it, but the Internet
spreads information instantly and globally."

Middleberg defines urban legends as false stories with multiple
variations. A story which varies in the telling is also the first red
flag to investigators that it probably isn't true.

Johnny Scales, general manager of the Mall at Tuttle Crossing, said he
read three versions of the story before crafting a response for the
Internet. "In one version it was a security guard, in another it was a
well-dressed man in a dark blue suit, and in the third it was a guy in
a T-shirt," Scales said.

Scales investigated the rumor and consulted with police before going
to the news media to refute it.

This particular urban legend was spread mainly by a network of
business and professional women, its membership ranging from
secretaries to executives. Many received the rumor, then hit a button
and E-mailed the story to friends, relatives and colleagues, without
questioning its origin or validity.

"There was a woman in Columbus who had hundreds of names on her list,"
said Chris Tennyson, Taubman's senior vice president of corporate
affairs.

Defusing the rumors is far more difficult than spreading them, and
laws about passing on urban legends over the Internet are vague.

Larry Dubin, constitutional law professor at the University of Detroit
Mercy School of Law, said liability for making defamatory statements
could extend to the Internet, but it's difficult to prove a rumor's
source. "If someone merely repeats what they've heard as a means of
providing needed information to someone else," they aren't liable,
Dubin said.

"The question is: Does communicating through the Internet, because you
are disseminating information through large numbers of people, create a
duty on the part of the communicator to check sources, like a
journalist would?" Dubin said.

For now, the answer is no. The law figures public people and
institutions have access to the media to defend themselves, says Dawn
Phillips-Hertz, general counsel of the Michigan Press Association.

So businesses dogged by Internet rumors must use means other than the
courts to dispel them.

Taubman discovered what other companies, such as Neiman Marcus, have
discovered -- that the Internet has an almost magical effect on the
psychology of otherwise sensible people.

Neiman Marcus was the subject of a false rumor, about a dozen years
old, but new to the Internet. It said a woman went into Neiman Marcus
and ordered a Mrs. Field's cookie. She asked for the recipe, was given
it and later got a bill for $250. The story was sent all over the
Internet with a cookie recipe.

Neiman Marcus spokeswoman Molly Garr said when Neiman's gets E-mail on
the cookie incident, it sends customers an explanatory letter, and
includes the recipe.

Jerry Herron, director of the American Studies program at Wayne State
University, said stories like the shopping center stalker tale give
people a reason to avoid malls -- especially if they feel uncomfortable
there.

"The very qualities that first made malls desirable -- open spaces,
consistent temperatures and lighting -- now make them spooky," Herron
said.

"You feel creeped out at the mall, and you think, 'What's wrong with
me?' You listen to the story and you think, 'There's nothing wrong with
me at all. It's the mall, not me,' " Herron said.

By Molly Brauer

-0-
 Visit the four World Wide Web sites of the Detroit Free Press. Visit
Auto Authority at http://www.auto.com, the Freep at
http://www.freep.com, Jobspage at http://www.freep.com/jobspage and
Yaks Corner for kids at http://www.yakscorner.com

(c) 1998, Detroit Free Press. Distributed by Knight Ridder/Tribune
Business News.  TCO, NMG,  END!A19?DE-INTERNET


News provided by COMTEX.
[!ENVIRONMENT] [!WALL+STREET] [BUSINESS] [CORPORATE] [E-MAIL] [INTERNET]
[KRT] [MEDIA] [MICHIGAN] [NEW+YORK] [NEWS] [NEWSGRID] [OHIO] [POLICE]
[TRAVEL] [USA] [WOMEN]


--
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a
prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------



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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 09:43:29 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Thousands to Demand Removal of Clinton at 'March for Justice' -Oct 31
Message-ID: <199810310113.RAA00492@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Thousands to Demand Removal of Clinton at 'March for Justice' -Oct 31
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 10:43:26 -0600
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  US Newswire
http://www.usnewswire.com/topnews/Current_Releases/1029-136.txt

Thousands to Attend 'March for Justice' Rally Oct. 31  
U.S. Newswire
29 Oct 19:56

 Thousands to Demand Removal of Clinton from Office at Oct. 31 'March for
Justice' Rally
 To: Assignment Desk, Daybook Editor
 Contact: Connie Hair or Carla Michele,
          202-965-2700 (Oct. 29-Nov. 1),
          or 202-256-5042 (on-site cellular)

   News Advisory:

   People from across the United States will travel to Washington,
D. C., to exercise their Constitutional right of assembly to
petition their elected representatives to remove President Clinton
from office at a massive rally being held this Saturday, Oct.
31 on the Washington Mall.

   The event, which is being organized by Web site
www.FreeRepublic.com, will bring together citizens -- both Democrats
and Republicans -- from all walks of life who are concerned about the
corruption of the Office of the Presidency by Bill Clinton.

   Speakers for the event include both people who have been thrust
into the limelight by the White House scandals as well as a number of
prominent national leaders. Heading the line-up will be Ambassador
Alan Keyes and Rep. Bob Barr (R-Ga.).

   What: "March for Justice" rally on Washington Monument
   When: Saturday, Oct. 31, noon-6 p.m.
   Where: The Washington Monument
   Who:
   -- Ambassador Alan Keyes
   -- Rep. Bob Barr
   -- Jim Robinson, founder, www.FreeRepublic.com
   -- Larry Klayman
   -- Gary Aldrich
   -- Lucianne Goldberg
   -- Former Rep. Ben Jones
   -- Dr. Paul Fick
   -- Rev. Jesse Peterson
   -- LD Brown
   -- Thousands of concerned Americans from all walks of life.

 -0-
 /U.S. Newswire  202-347-2770/
 10/29 19:56

Copyright 1998, U.S. Newswire
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 01:29:26 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: 4 Horseman not so bad..
Message-ID: <199810301647.RAA06172@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




At 05:06 PM 10/29/98 -0500, Chip Mefford wrote:
>On Thu, 29 Oct 1998, Anonymous wrote:
>> At 07:52 AM 10/29/98 -0500, Chip Mefford wrote:
>> >>  but some peope are scared of
>> >> drugs/paedophiles/terrorists etc, so thats the way in for the
jackboots. 
>> >> To oppose it we need to reduce fear. 

>> Right.  The new Happy Net campaign.

>Well, 
>
>Sorry, I don't mean to sound pollyanneish, thats not my point.
>Its just a point of view I had never heard expressed before, and
>I thought it was interesting. 
>
>Fighting fear with more fear isn't working. 
>Its just that simple, a different approach 
>I think is worthy of investigation. 
>

Your observation is in fact correct.  The fear must be
shown to be *exaggerated* for the benefit of the fearmongers.
The intrusion must be shown to be not just intruding on "them"
but on "us".  (Europe's recent interest in Echelon may be an example
of the latter.)

Sheeple will *eventually* learn (again) that nasty people
will always do nasty things with the technology du
jour, and mostly the police just mop up afterwards.
(If it isn't the State doing the nasty things in the
first place.)  Of course, we might have an intervening dark ages
for a millenia or two, but in the long run, you get a clue or 
go extinct.

You don't ban something as basic as metal or
encryption because some people do bad things with it.
And you don't depend on laws to secure privacy.

In the meantime, morons whine for State control 
of metal, while barbarians are destroying the town's 
wooden walls with metal rams, and protective metal walls aren't being
deployed because the townies fear that the bad townies will abuse metal.







"Freedom of choice is what you have, freedom from choice is what you want"
-Devo

"Those that would trade liberty for security should be shot"
-Kite Sparko








  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 03:17:21 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: IP: FCC Proposes Location Tracking for Wireless Phones
Message-ID: <199810301700.SAA07910@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




At 01:03 AM 10/30/98 -0800, Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote:
>(2)  PUBLIC COMMENT SOUGHT - A CHANCE TO TELL THE FCC THAT CELL PHONE
>TRACKING IS NOT ACCEPTABLE!
>

>CDT has established a special "Action" page to make it easy for citizens to
>contact the FCC and file comments opposing the location tracking proposal:
>http://www.cdt.org/action/filing.html


Be sure to mention ECHELON to get it into the US public eye.










  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 12:39:52 +0800
To: Adam Back 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981030182933.008baae0@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




>Harv "RedRook" (is that Harvey Rook?) writes:
>> You don't know you have to destroy a key file, until it is too late.

At 02:43 PM 10/30/98 GMT, Adam Back wrote:
>Sooo.  What does this imply you should do?  
>Destroy your key file on a regular basis :-)
...
>This means that if someone were (say like GCHQ or ECHELON) were to be
>archiving my email, and later develop an interest in reading it, they
>would be out of luck.  And I wouldn't be able to help them if I wanted to. ...
>Forward secrecy means that only the current key file is vulnerable.

Forward secrecy for encryption keys is a really important technique;
as you say, nobody can go back later and force you to reveal the key.
Forward secrecy for signature keys is less useful (:-), since it means
that you can't later sign a document using an old key.  (Occasionally
this may be bad - e.g. court cases demonstrating you signed something -
but it also means nobody can forge an old signature of yours.)

In any Forward Secrecy environment, it tends to help to have multiple keys,
with a long-term key that's only used for signing short-term keys.
The classic example is Authenticated Diffie-Hellman key exchange,
with one-use session keyparts signed by your signature key
(ideally with the signatures passed inside the encrypted session
rather than beforehand in the clear.)  

One difficulty is proving that you don't have a backup copy of the keyfile,
on tapes, or hidden, or printed on paper stuck in a desk drawer.
Proving that _you_ didn't make a copy is usually impossible,
and knowing whether somebody else has a copy of things is a problem
Ollie North has dealt with (:-) ; if you're running your own PC,
physically secure, then you're at least as secure as your network connections.

Another issue for Kong and other systems with keys made from a
passphrase and keyfile is whether to reuse either of them
in a forward secrecy environment.  It's sometimes convenient
to use the same passphrase and change keyfiles every cycle,
but that depends on your threat models.

>Your passphrase might not be as secure as you think it is. 
>The sound of you typing it whilst on the phone, or the RF noise 
>emitted by the keyboard controller chip may completely or partially leak it.

If you're worried about RF noise, you have to assume the CPU or disk
is also radiating enough for the spooks.  On the other hand,
that video camera in the ceiling can watch your keystrokes,
but can't watch the CPU.  That's when the paranoids worry about
whether the KGB is sneaking in and copying their disk drive at night,
and they start getting encrypted file system software. :-)


				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: iang@cs.berkeley.edu (Ian Goldberg)
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 03:18:33 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Shuffling (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199810291716.LAA19879@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <71d1ik$b4o$1@abraham.cs.berkeley.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



In article <199810291716.LAA19879@einstein.ssz.com>,
Jim Choate   wrote:
>Forwarded message:
>
>> From: iang@cs.berkeley.edu (Ian Goldberg)
>> Subject: Re: Shuffling (fwd)
>> Date: 29 Oct 1998 16:16:41 GMT
>
>> The "7 times" theorem uses the following model of a shuffle:
>> 
>> o The deck is cut into two parts, with the number of cards in each piece
>>     binomially distributed (with mean 26, of course).
>
>> o The resulting deck is then achieved by having cards fall from one or the
>>     other of the two parts; a card will fall from one of the parts with
>>     probability proportional to the number of cards remaining in the part.
>
>The only problem I see with this model, re real card decks, is that the
>probability for a given card to fall to the top of the shuffled pile isn't
>related in any way to the number of cards in either stack in a real-world
>shuffle.

Yup.

   "It's only a model."  -- Monty Python and the Holy Grail

>It also doesn't address the problem of 'clumping' where a group of cards (ie
>royal flush) stay together through the shuffling. This is the reason that
>real dealers try for a 1-for-1 shuffle each time.

It actually _does_ address the normal, statistical clumping that goes on.
It _doesn't_ address clumping that occurs because, say, you were playing
poker while eating a peanut butter sandwich. :-)

   - Ian




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 11:29:33 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: network computers, web TV, java
Message-ID: <199810310301.TAA02632@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



recently it was announced that Web TV, owned by mostly by MS,
 will not come out with a java version of their computer.
even after talking about this as early as '97..

this is really BOGUS in my opinion. recently I posted
how similar a Web TV is to a network computer. if you had
java in it, I would say that IS a network computer. 
MS is trying to destroy the network computer market by
this decision. the president of web TV denies MS has had
anything to do with it. B*******!!! @#%^&*

they say that it would "cost too much" to add java to
their machine, and that they are "stretched thin". c'mon
you idiots, you're a multimillion dollar company, and why
don't you JUST COME OUT WITH ANOTHER JAVA MODEL that costs
a bit more?!?!? what do you think we are, STUPID?!?!
oh yeah, and how long would it take now that there are
debugged Java Chips available???

I know what you're doing....

well you WON'T GET AWAY WITH IT-- mark my words, you
@#%^&* gatesasskissers!!!!!

gates REALLY IS AN EVIL, PETTY MAN
it's just that he's managed to hide it from the world

there's an old saying.. "I'm not trying to get EVERYTHING..
only YOUR HALF" .. but gates, your days are numbered!!! 



see the article at
http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,28136,00.html?st.ne.fd.gif.d




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: iang@cs.berkeley.edu (Ian Goldberg)
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 04:56:02 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Shuffling (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199810301934.NAA26157@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <71d757$bub$1@abraham.cs.berkeley.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



In article <199810301934.NAA26157@einstein.ssz.com>,
Jim Choate   wrote:
>Forwarded message:
>
>> From: iang@cs.berkeley.edu (Ian Goldberg)
>> Subject: Re: Shuffling (fwd)
>> Date: 30 Oct 1998 18:46:44 GMT
>
>> >> o The resulting deck is then achieved by having cards fall from one or the
>> >>     other of the two parts; a card will fall from one of the parts with
>> >>     probability proportional to the number of cards remaining in the part.
>
>> >It also doesn't address the problem of 'clumping' where a group of cards (ie
>> >royal flush) stay together through the shuffling. This is the reason that
>> >real dealers try for a 1-for-1 shuffle each time.
>> 
>> It actually _does_ address the normal, statistical clumping that goes on.
>> It _doesn't_ address clumping that occurs because, say, you were playing
>> poker while eating a peanut butter sandwich. :-)
>
>What I was refering to was that let's say we've just finished playing a hand
>of cards and the next dealer collects them from each player and stacks them
>up prior to shuffling. Since the selection of cards is related to the
>thickness of the two half-decks (and not a strict 1-to-1) it is reasonable
>to expect an above average number of such shuffles (ones with grossly uneven
>card counts, exactly what that would be I don't know), now as a player I'm
>going to know about this bias and can use it to my advantage. I admit it
>probably won't change the odds much but sometimes a few hundreths over a
>long time can make a difference.

That's true.  That's why you need to do it seven times, in order to
properly randomize the deck.

It's for exactly this reason that players at computer-dealt bridge
tournaments complain about "flat" distributions.  When they play in
"real life", people usually don't shuffle seven times, and the resulting
suit distributions end up skewed ("ghoulies" is the extreme case of this).
The players are used to this, though, and when they get actual random
hands, the distributions are much flatter.

   - Ian




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "blancink" 
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 12:52:01 +0800
To: 
Subject: Re: network computers, web TV, java
Message-ID: <001c01be0487$d9185860$218195cf@blanc>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>From Vlad ze Nurdi, who knows knows *Everything*:

>I know what you're doing....
>
>well you WON'T GET AWAY WITH IT-- mark my words, you
>@#%^&* gatesasskissers!!!!!
>
>gates REALLY IS AN EVIL, PETTY MAN
>it's just that he's managed to hide it from the world
............................................................


Do you have some kind of emergency which requires that you get a web TB with
java Real Soon Now, but that stinkin' rotten billg is making life hard on
you?  Like there aren't other companies working in this market as well, and
will jump at the opportunity to include features left out by their
competitors (in particular, Microsoft) for the benefit of whiners like you?
It's not like he (or the other companies working on this project) *owe* it
to you, you know.

It's more like you have to wait for someone to come up with the idea, then
to do all the work of putting it together, then you have to decide whether
you want it, then you put your money down.   You're so juvenile.  But so
amusing.

    ..
Blanc





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 10:26:22 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Hayek Web Page URL Notice
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Date:         Fri, 30 Oct 1998 20:31:06 EST
Reply-To: Hayek Related Research 
Sender: Hayek Related Research 
From: Hayek-L List Host 
Subject:      Hayek Web Page URL Notice
To: HAYEK-L@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU

You may find the Friedrich Hayek Web Page of interest,
on the web at:

   http://members.aol.com/gregransom/hayekpage.htm

Hyperlink:

     The Friedrich
Hayek Scholars' Page

The Hayek Page includes links to articles by Hayek,
interviews with Hayek, articles on Hayek available
on the internet, Hayek's complete bibliography,
the register of Hayek's collected papers, quotes
on Hayek, quotes by Hayek, the Nobel press release
announcing Hayek's Nobel Prize, a fact file on
Hayek, and a bibliography of writings on Hayek, among
many other resources.

The Hayek Page also includes links to the Hayek-L
email list searchable Electronic Archive, as well as links
to the Hayek-L guidelines for posting, and to the
Listserv commands for changing the setting to your
Hayek-L subscription -- including instructions for joining
the Hayek-L email list.


Please feel welcome to forward along this message
to other email lists and individuals where appropriate.


For further information contact:

Greg Ransom
Dept. of Social Science
MiraCosta College
gbransom@aol.com


>>  END  <<

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 04:50:45 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Texans Face Life For E-Mail Threats
Message-ID: <199810302006.VAA27347@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Yahoo! News    Texas Headlines 

Friday October 30 5:21 AM EDT 

Texans Face Life For E-Mail Threats - (BROWNSVILLE) -- A Brownsville jury has returned a split verdict in the
trial of three alleged ``Republic of Texas'' members accused of making terrorist threats. Forty-three-year-old Jack Grebe
(GREEB) and 72-year-old Johnie Wise were convicted for sending electronic e-mail to President Clinton and several
other federal officials... warning they were ``targeted for revenge''. Sixty-three-year-old Oliver Emigh (EM-EE) was
acquitted of all charges. The jury also found the trio NOT GUILTY of plotting to use modified cigarette lighters to fire
cactus needles... tipped with a biological poison. Grebe and Wise will be sentenced in January and face a maximum
penalty of life imprisonment. 



















From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 05:29:52 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199810302056.VAA31759@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1


From:	Petro [SMTP:petro@playboy.com]
Sent:	Friday, October 30, 1998 12:07 PM
To:	cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com
Subject:	Re: FW: rules of engagement (fwd)

I am not sure, but is this an idea to put the 3 line RSA Perl
implementation in the classified adds? (as near as I could gather
trying to
read ahead) If not, what is it?

Yes.  The reference was to the 3 line RSA Perl implementation in ads. 
Didn't seem to get as an enthusiastic response as back in late summer.

me.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 6.0 for non-commercial use 

iQA/AwUBNjnS1nUkEFXvH2ZAEQIYewCfbUfDHUF51IjAl1u2q1wC9JcWS7gAn325
V8c9VPuwEZmebGX2s9tJqkap
=CD5B
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 05:33:55 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199810302100.WAA32146@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1


testing...

me



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 6.0 for non-commercial use 

iQA/AwUBNjnTTXUkEFXvH2ZAEQLfaACfdpJivYj4Cz8BQWSBn+bcNjkfKTsAoIpF
s7LLMoFoUJqld5+r/C+mJQly
=LzNe
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 11:40:28 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: [RRE]The Return of Antimasonism in American Political Life
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 17:59:29 -0800 (PST)
From: Phil Agre 
To: "Red Rock Eater News Service" 
Subject: [RRE]The Return of Antimasonism in American Political Life
Sender: 
Precedence: Bulk
List-Subscribe: 


Conspiracy and Reason:
The Return of Antimasonism in American Political Life

Phil Agre
http://dlis.gseis.ucla.edu/

(I wrote this back in the spring, but it seems even more relevant now.)

When going to the movies, my favorite part is afterward, walking back
out into the world, seeing everything through the prism of the movie.
After seeing Terry Gilliam's bizarre "12 Monkeys", for example, I drove
across San Diego in the grip of a delusion that I was Bruce Willis,
warning Cassandra-like about a catastophe that nobody wanted to hear
about.  Of course it didn't make sense.  Am I really warning anyone
about a catastrophe?  Is nobody really listening?  But that's how it
felt for a good couple of hours.

I got that feeling again this afternoon.  For the last few months,
in amongst my official duties, I have been reading the literature on
apocalytic social movements.  I was originally inspired in this by David
Noble's book "The Religion of Technology".  Noble observes, for example,
that many of the important early engineers, particularly in the United
States, were Masons, and he describes the development of a particular
kind of millennialism -- or at least a secularized form of religious
utopianism -- among engineers that became secularized and formed the
outlines of technical movements such as artificial intelligence and --
he might as well have added -- cyberspace.

As part of this reading campaign, earlier this week I read large parts
of Robert Fuller's "Naming the Antichrist", which is a history of social
movements in the United States that, from earliest colonial times to
the present, have claimed to identify the Antichrist that is mentioned
briefly in the visionary books of the Bible.  In reading Fuller's book,
all at once it occurred to me that the ongoing tidal wave of accusations
and innuendoes against Bill Clinton and his entire generation resemble
nothing so much as Antimasonism.  The similarities are most striking:
both involve attempts to foment hatred by ordinary people against their
slightly better-off and more cosmopolitan fellow citizens by implicating
them in an enormous Conspiracy.  Even the fine details of the
accusations are similar: in each case, for example, the conspirators
are said to undermine religion and promote decadence through the public
schools.  This analogy impressed me for a while, but then I cooled down.
Even when an analogy is instructive, one should determine its limits.
After all, nobody is claiming that Bill Clinton is mounting his vast
campaign of murder, drug dealing, treason, and bank fraud on behalf of
the Illuminati, right?  And with that thought I filed the whole thing in
my notebook.  That was Tuesday.

This afternoon, Friday, I happened to pass through a Barnes and Noble in
Costa Mesa, California.  I was there because the bookstore has a public
restroom and is on the way to the most excellent El Toro Bravo taco
stand, which does not.  Briefly inspecting the "New Non-Fiction Books"
shelves as is my custom, I noticed a new book by Tony Brown.  Its title,
"Empower the People", was not so promising, given that I've already
read quite a few books by conservative authors about how the free market
empowers people to make choices etc etc etc.  Yet something poked at
me to look closer, and I saw the subtitle: "A 7-Step Plan to Overthrow
the Conspiracy That Is Stealing Your Money and Freedom".  I opened the
book and found to my utter slack-jawed amazement that it described none
other than the great Conspiracy by the Illuminati, led by Bill Clinton.

I am not making this up.

Now, if the author of this book were a fringe crazy then it would only
be mildly odd to find the book in Barnes and Noble.  Just the other
day I sat on the floor in the Barnes and Noble at Pico and Westwood
in Los Angeles and read large parts of a well-produced volume entitled
"A Woman Rides the Beast" by Dave Hunt, which argues that the woman
seen riding on the back of the Beast in the Book of Revelation is
none other than the Virgin Mary as she is worshipped in the Catholic
Church.  (This is part of a resurgence of anti-Catholicism among some
American evangelical Protestants that deserves much more attention
than it has gotten -- see, for example, Michael W. Smith singing on a
recent record, amidst a lamentation of various sins, of people who are
"jaded by hypocrisies behind cathedral walls").  This is the sort of
fringe weirdness that is easy to write off.  But the author of "Empower
the People", Tony Brown, is not a marginal crazy.  I hate to be the one
to break this to you, but the United States is now a country in which a
man who believes that the President is an agent of the Illuminati has a
regular program on public television.

What are we to make of this?  Several things.  First, in the astonishing
climate of political warfare now under way in the United States, when
the speaker of the House insinuates in a speech at Stanford University
that the President is systematically killing his enemies (NY Times
5/3/98) and nobody finds this even slightly odd, we have to confront
the fact that in the late 18th century, during the formative decades of
the political culture of the United States, this country was positively
addled by conspiracy theories.  These theories were not prominent in
the writings of the educated secular elites who officially founded
the country.  But the rank and file of the Revolution were animated in
large part (though not, of course, solely) by elaborate claims to have
located the Antichrist in the crown and church of England, and in their
adherents in America.

Nor the American cultural inclination to conspiracy theories end
with the Constitution.  As the new country fought its first round of
political conflicts, the theories suddenly shifted their attention --
to the Masons.  This happened precisely 200 years ago, in fact, in 1798,
when the first tracts appeared describing the great Conspiracy of the
Illuminati, a subgroup of the Masons from Bavaria.  After smouldering
for several years, opposition to this Conspiracy became a substantial
social movement beginning around 1830 in the "burned-over district"
of upstate New York, so-called because of the waves of evangelical
religious enthusiasm that had swept over the area.  (Madison probably
had an earlier wave of revivals, the First Great Awakening, in mind
when he expressed relief in the famous tenth Federalist Paper that
social movements that rise up in one part of the country, particularly
religious movements that devolve into political ones, cannot easily
spread to other areas.)  The Antimasonic movement became a political
party which contested several elections before collapsing a decade
later.

You will recall that many early American engineers were Masons, as were
many of the Founding Fathers.  But who exactly were the Masons?  The
Masons originated as a medieval guild, but during the period in question
they were a semi-secret society of white men who constituted themselves
on classical Greek and Roman models as the intellectual elites of
their respective countries.  In this sense, Antimasonism was very much
a revolt against educated people.  That it was also a revolt against
the same people who founded the country was, so far as I can determine,
little-noted at the time.

It is often observed that cultural patterns are able to go underground
for decades or centuries, only to spring fully-formed to the surface
once again, as if they were brand new, when the time is right.  And
that, I would suggest, is what's happening now.  If this were the late
18th century, white men who rose through education from relatively poor
backgrounds -- men such as Bill Clinton -- would be spinning classical
political philosophies and writing the Constitution, and conservative
evangelical ministers would be spinning conspiracy theories and opposing
the Constitution on the grounds that (quite the opposite of what many
such ministers say today) it does not create a Christian nation.  The
vigorous but ideologically vague patriotism of the contemporary anti-
government movement likewise corresponds to the equally vague ideas of
the 18th century conspiracy theorists.

In drawing out these parallels, I am particularly struck by the place
of technology in American political culture.  The early engineers --
the men who founded the country's original technological institutions
-- were largely Masons, and popular reactionary movements in the United
States have increasingly incorporated technological themes into their
theories.  Computers, for example, play an important role in conspiracy
theories based on the Book of Revelation.  Viewed superficially,
these theories sometimes seem to resemble the much more serious ideas
of privacy and civil liberties advocates.  My experience, however,
is that the people who spin such theories are indifferent to accurate
information about the nature and use of computers, no matter how
unsettling; their concern with the technology is much more symbolic.

In my view, a critical turning point in American cultural constructions
of information technology occurred in the 1970's, in the wake of the
Vietnam war.  This cultural shift has been brilliantly documented by
James W. Gibson's "Warrior Dreams: Paramilitary Culture in Post-Vietnam
America" (1994).  The Vietnam war, Gibson observes, was organized
largely by men from elite institutions who believed in formal
rationality and made heavy use of mathematical decision-making models.
They lost, and there arose in the aftermath of that loss an important
cultural narrative that was best captured by Sylvester Stallone's
"Rambo".  Rambo is a lone individual who keeps fighting despite having
been betrayed by decadent institutions.  Cold War heroes, by contrast,
may have been ambivalent about their institutions, but they were
insiders -- they were part of the institution.  Rambo is an outsider.
He has two enemies, the "official" enemy and the institution itself.
This figure of the betrayed and wounded hero fighting two enemies has
become deeply engraved in American culture.  Constrast, for example,
the original Cold War era (1966-1969) "Mission: Impossible" television
series and the 1996 movie version starring Tom Cruise.  In the
television version, the government is completely unquestioned, but for
Tom Cruise, the CIA is the enemy as well.

Rambo epitomized a new cultural construction of masculinity, set against
institutions rather than identifying with them.  And technology was
identified with the institutions.  This helps to explain why Hollywood
has apparently decided that computers and rationality are feminine
domains.  (Think, for example, of "The X-Files".)  Cultures often
define men as "outside" of something and women as "inside"; what varies
is the something.  In this case, the something is the institutional
world, technology and all.  The Rambo phenomenon also helps to explain
the otherwise mysterious shift that took place during the 1980's in
prevailing cultural constructions of computer hackers: the original
hackers were comfortably identified with military-sponsored research
institutions, but then the word "hacker" suddenly shifted around
to refer to men, whether bad criminals or virtuous rebels, who were
outside of and opposed to institutions.  This, in turn, helps explain
the peculiar divide on the political right between those cultural
conservatives -- the inheritors of the Antimasonites -- who persist in
identifying technology with oppressive institutions and a demographically
narrow but highly educated group of libertarians who have redefined
technology as an instrument for the destruction of institutions.

The point here is not that Rambo appeared from nowhere.  Quite the
contrary, "Rambo"'s construction of the Vietnam war drew upon and
revalued elements of American historical memory that have been handed
down, for the most part unconsciously, by all sorts of mechanisms
throughout the country's history.  And once it did, neoconservative
intellectuals such as Irving Kristol set about reinterpreting those
cultural forms in terms of their "New Class" political strategy.  That
phrase, "New Class", was originally applied by Milovan Djilas in his
analysis of the bureaucrats who consolidated their power in the Soviet
Union.  True to the ideologies of Lenin and Stalin, these people were
drawn primarily from the lower strata of Russian society, semi-educated
and selected through the Soviet examination system (itself originally
derived, via European variants, from the classical Chinese system), and
installed in positions of power that they proceeded to consolidate over
several decades.

The neoconservatives' strategy is to portray American liberals as
an analogue of the Soviet New Class and to use the money of the rich
to mobilize working people against professionals and the poor.  This
helps to explain why conservative rhetoric virtually never discloses
the existence of working-class liberals, and why the party that enjoys
the overwhelming support of wealthy Americans persists in appropriating
generations of left-wing rhetoric to portray liberals as a wealthy
"elite".  (It's bad to foment envy against the rich, apparently, but
not against college professors.)  This whole strategy succeeds in large
part because of the whole historical inheritance of Antimasonism and its
successive generations of descendents.  The liberals, in short, are the
new Masons.

In his history of German intellectual life in the era that led up to
the Nazis, Georg Lukacs spoke of a "destruction of reason" -- a step-
by-step demolition of rational thought that became possible as Germans
found themselves willing to project more and more and more of their own
negative impulses into a vast enemy.  Tony Brown's "Empower the People",
it seems to me, is one very clear step in a destruction of reason
that is currently far along in the United States.  Antimasonism is the
American equivalent of fascism, and Antimasonism is coming back.  Will
the relatively rational antiliberalism of neoconservative intellectuals
be drowned by the unfortunate tradition of conspiratoralism upon which
it draws its emotional force?  That, it seems to me, is an urgent
question for our country right now.

end

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Matt Fitzpatrick" 
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 14:55:27 +0800
To: 
Subject: Entropy
Message-ID: <000901be0421$42f46f60$6ffadac7@bw111.antioch-college.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hello out there.

I propose a question to the Cypherpunks  community.  Other than the
infamous Claude Shannon paper published in '49 in the Bell Systems
Technical Journal "Communications Theory of Secrecy Systems",  I am
looking for a good (maybe a more layman level, published in the last
decade or so, and available on the web)  paper describing the
relationship between entropy (of information systems) and secure
communication.  

If no-one has any good suggestions, maybe you could email me with your
favorite number or color or size of pants.  

Just kidding, what I am really interested  in is, is how much Jelllo
you can fit in  your left sock.  Or hell, send me your most
provocative pictures of Margaret Thatcher in the nude.

I am, in my uneducated state of fourth-year mathematics major at
Antioch College, attempting a research project in the field of
cryptography, and would appreciate citations of sources you consider
significant developments in the field of cryptography, in the last 50
years or so.  

But your flammability has nothing to do with this request for
information at all.

So, goddamnit, thanks for your help.

Matthew Sommers Fitzpatrick
fnord@antioch-college.edu
http://antioch-college.edu/~fnord/





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Version: PGPfreeware 6.0 for non-commercial use 

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OJLWPgZBBHYn4MP87QVrSW2f
=SvDu
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 19:26:02 +0800
To: "blancink" 
Subject: Re: network computers, web TV, java
In-Reply-To: <001c01be0487$d9185860$218195cf@blanc>
Message-ID: <199810310931.BAA20649@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



hi BLANK
a company has a *reponsibility* to its customers. perhaps
you would care to deny that?? gates has a *responsibility*
to his customers. what is that responsibility? to create
products they want. to anticipate their needs. 

you, working at MS, and spouting the official company line
(and not identifying your affiliation, like
all corporate slaveminded robots) would have a hard time
grasping that. nice of you not to use your MS address 

a web tv with java has had *extreme* interest from around
the country!! but MS is not merely not doing web tv with
java. they are sending out smoke signals that they will
do it one minute, but then SIT ON IT. thus cleverly preventing
any other companies from even thinking about it. as I understand it,
as early as 97 it was announced it would happen. this is a way
of STALLING, and pissing on a market. 

so BW, what happens if another company does create itself
to solve this little problem? and in 2 years we actually
have a java type web tv??? well, would you apologize then??
what about the 2 years we didn't have one because of MS's
outright inexcusable *arrogance*?? do you think that this means
that people didn't want it until 2 years from now?  if so, you'd
be an idiot. yes, another company will
come along and cannibalize and disembowel MS if they keep this crap up.
and they will show NO MERCY to MS just as MS has shown NO MERCY
to anyone else.

it all smells like IBM not wanting to sell PCs because it
would cannibalize their mainframes. 

yes, Win95 is a decent operating system-- by 95 standards.
by year 2000 standards, I think it is starting to lose
touch with what customers really want-- something that you
don't have to be a geek to run. the public is rapidly beginning
to understand that it isn't that they are stupid, it's just
that the OS is stupid....

how many people have ever had to reinstall windows 95 and
a lot of other software to fix  a simple trivial glitch???
a decent OS would know when it has been corrupted. in
fact with a really good one,  corruption is IMPOSSIBLE.
by well behaved apps or nonwell behaved, take your pick.


MS is getting too arrogant. you can call me whatever names
you want, but I know that they have hit the point of no
return. just recently. in fact, that's why I thought I
would announce it to ya'all 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Blanc" 
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 21:47:25 +0800
To: 
Subject: RE: network computers, web TV, java
In-Reply-To: <199810310931.BAA20649@netcom13.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <000101be04d1$40e3cee0$3c8195cf@blanc>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>From Vlad Ze Nurdi, Who Still Doesn't Get It:
(sigh.  I don't usually reply point-by-point, but this calls for it)


: a company has a *reponsibility* to its customers. perhaps
: you would care to deny that?? gates has a *responsibility*
: to his customers. what is that responsibility? to create
: products they want. to anticipate their needs.

	You speak of responsibility as if it was a total assimilation, and as if it was
a given which is to be expected, now that they've dissolved everyone's
resistance.   Spineless.

	An individual, or the company which they have created, does not have the
responsibility to customers, prior to having acquired customers, to supply them
with heretofore unknown pleasures.  They have all sorts of responsibilities
which they create once they have obtained the support of customers, but not in
advance.   And even after they have established a client base, they do not
thereby become burdened forevermore with the obligatory responsiblity to provide
those users with their future desires, needs, and wants, which no one knew was
possible until the Research Department announced its discovery.

	Joe Random cannot be accused of negligence from the fact that he didn't invent
Linux or Unix or NT.   He has no responsibility to create the new products that
Random User wants, he is under no obligation to anticipate their needs, or be
considered responsible for the fact that Random User is sitting in his darkened
apartment with nothing to do, waiting for someone to offer him a java-enabled
WebTV with 500 interactive channels, nor to be charged with ir-responsibility
because he didn't realize that Random User doesn't have a life and constantly
needs more entertainment and fresh updates to keep his eroding intellect
occupied.


: you, working at MS, and spouting the official company line
: (and not identifying your affiliation, like
: all corporate slaveminded robots) would have a hard time
: grasping that. nice of you not to use your MS address 

	For the record, I have not worked at MS for a year.   Furthermore, I am not
addressing the quality of their products, but the error in proposing that one
has a right to a claim to their future productivity for the benefit of Random
User and All Cyberspace.


: a web tv with java has had *extreme* interest from around
: the country!! but MS is not merely not doing web tv with
: java. they are sending out smoke signals that they will
: do it one minute, but then SIT ON IT.

	So?   If they decided to close up shop tomorrow, that would be their
prerogative.   They were not instigated by Government to produce products for
you, products to bitch about for 1)  being of low quality or for 2) failing to
produce them fast enough to suit you.


:thus cleverly preventing
: any other companies from even thinking about it. as I understand it,
: as early as 97 it was announced it would happen. this is a way
: of STALLING, and pissing on a market.

	Did you ever see that bookcalled "The Other Guy Blinked"?   I think it was
about the Pepsi/Coca-Cola war  where the companies were competing for a merger
or something of the sort.   One company got the deal because the other company
did not respond fast enough, or something like that.

	That's the way it is in the market these days, in case you hadn't heard - speed
is of the essence.   If Microsoft is stalling, that is all the opportunity a
computer shark needs to swallow that market segment by being there first and
nabbing the eagerly-awaiting customer's business.  And correct, no one will cry
with sympathy that Microsoft was edged out of the lead.   So what are these
sharks waiting for?   They can use their own judgement about proper market
timing, they don't have to wait for Microsoft.   They can make some profit/cost
calculations and decide what risks to take.  They have Business Analyst MBAs
working in their Finance and Marketing departments, people with years of
experience, getting highly paid to give them advice on these things.   They can
decide to work with Sun, instead.


: so BW, what happens if another company does create itself
: to solve this little problem?

	Then it's Microsoft's problem, isn't it.  They'll have to get together over a
latte' and figure out what to do about it.  This is not an exceptional,
out-of-the-ordinary situation.   It's part of struggling in the highly
competitive global world of technology.   That's part of the work of doing
business in the free-market:  success is not pre-arranged by government and
imposed by law upon the open-mouthed population (not quite yet, anyway).   It's
up to everyone to stay alert and pay attention.   You blink, you lose.  They
know this.   Question is, why you, who is not in the playing field, are so
worried about it, in particular as you despise Billg and look forward to his
demise.  Jealous?


:and in 2 years we actually
: have a java type web tv??? well, would you apologize then??

	Frankly, My Dear . . . it's not my responsiblity to worry about it.  I don't
get paid to agonize like you do for free.

[. . .]
: MS is getting too arrogant. you can call me whatever names
: you want, but I know that they have hit the point of no
: return. just recently. in fact, that's why I thought I
: would announce it to ya'all 

	So have you morphed into the CyberCop of Attitude?  Taking the world of
software upon your keyboard-hunched shoulders? What in the world does
Microsoft's stand have anything to do with your own experience of Life, the
Universe, and Everything?   I thought you preferred Linux, which is having a
surge of interest and enlarged user base.   And Unix - everyone likes Unix, why
don't you focus on them instead?   Why don't you exult over their superiority,
or why don't you write to Sun Microsystems - they had the idea for the Net PC
first, anyway, didn't they?  It's their responsibility to carry through on it.
Tell them they have the responsibility of supplying you *immediately* with their
version of a net PC (with their Java, of course).

	And get a job.

    ..
Blanc




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 14:48:39 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: network computers, web TV, java
In-Reply-To: <001c01be0487$d9185860$218195cf@blanc>
Message-ID: <199810310622.HAA14682@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>>>>> blancink   writes:

  > Do you have some kind of emergency which requires that you get a
  > web TB with java Real Soon Now, but that stinkin' rotten billg is
  > making life hard on you?

Naw, VZ probably just had the sort of day I've just had with NT, the
lower-than-pig-shit `operating system' that the marketing dickheads in
Redmond seem to have sold to every IT manager and pointy-hair boss in
this gawd-forsaken industry.

It doesn't bother me that Micro$hit have made nearly every technical
error that they could.  But I'm royally pissed off that they've
managed to sell this cruft to the ignorant folks with the cheque-
books, who then expect me to make their `virtual private empires' work.

Just frustration, you know...




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bob@usa.net
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 07:00:24 +0800
To: 
Subject: NOW!!!!   An Unsecured MASTERCARD/VISA?  100% Guaranteed Approval!
Message-ID: <199810312217.OAA06351@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Eric Cordian 
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 01:54:02 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Usenet Under Siege
Message-ID: <199810311726.LAA16766@wire.insync.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Interesting developments in the election year attempts by New York
State Attorney General Dennis Vacco to create legal liability for ISPs
over Usenet content, particularly alleged child porn.
 
Over the past few years, a number of national news providers, under
pressure from various self-declared "child advocates," have filtered
out articles from their feeds whose newsgroup names suggested that
depictions of the sexuality of minors were topical.
 
Given that Usenet routes around censorship, that a "newsgroup" is not
a tangible entity, but simply one line on a Usenet article which
attempts to roughly categorize it, and that the Usenet newsgroup
namespace is practically infinite, such attempts to curtail the topics
discussed in the worldwide real-time conversation that is Usenet have
been laughably unsuccessful.
 
While uncensored Usenet feeds are still the standard most customers
demand, this content-based pruning of the daily newsfeed by some ISPs
has provided the opportunity for some in law enforcement to
characterize uncensored news servers as some sort of outlaw minority.
Law enforcement is now trying to use such representations as a
pretense to erode the notion that ISPs should enjoy common carrier
status for content they do not originate.
 
It therefore came as no surprise when Dennis Vacco, the incumbent New
York Attorney General, and an individual who has built his reputation
with numerous publicity stunts revolving around sexual vices featuring
those under the legal age of majority, seized the news servers of
Dreamscape and Buffnet in a highly publicized raid, accompanied by
simultaneous press releases and Web pages, announcing that he had
broken up an "International Child Pornography Ring." 13 individuals in
several countries were also arrested on various possession,
trafficking, and promotion charges involving illegal erotica.
 
The fallacies in Vacco's spewage were innumerably large.  There was
the absurd idea that a running gag in one newsgroup involving a
mythical "Pedo University" indicated the existence of a "virtual
academic institution devoted to the sexual abuse of children." Vacco
also seemed to believe that individual Usenet newsgroups were owned
and operated by specific individuals, and that certain newgroups were
"providing services" to the aforementioned imaginary academic
institution.
 
In reality, no one owns or operates a Usenet newsgroup, and any
individual may post anything he likes to any newsgroup at any time,
either anonymously, or with identifying information attached.
 
Dennis Vacco's clueless attack on the global Usenet may in fact
backfire, as there is presently serious discussion over a possible
three day protest, in which all traffic destined for the groups
targetted by Vacco will be posted instead to alt.law-enforcement.
 
Vacco's plans to undermine claims of common carrier status for ISP's
can be found in his following statements.
 
     "Most Internet service providers choose not to carry
      news groups that cater to the interests of child porn
      traffickers for obvious reasons.
 
     "Those that do are well aware of their nature and
      purpose, possess the offensive images on their servers,
      and facilitate the transfer and trading of child
      pornography."
 
CNET News.com provides the following article by Paul Festa giving
further information on the attempts to criminally charge ISPs over
Usenet content, available on their web site.
 
ISPs may face charges over child porn
By Paul Festa
Staff Writer, CNET News.com
October 30, 1998, 5:35 p.m. PT
 
A few exerpts...
 
    As many as five Internet service providers may face
    serious legal charges for providing access to
    newsgroups used by child pornographers in cases that
    critics are calling election-eve politics.
 
    New York Attorney General Dennis Vacco won praise this
    week for his role in an international crackdown on an
    online child pornography ring. But critics have accused
    Vacco, up for reelection Tuesday, of breaking the law
    and playing politics in probing two New York state ISPs
    as part of the crackdown and seizing their newsgroup
    servers.
 
    Three more ISPs--two on the West Coast and one in the
    Midwest--are likely to receive search warrants in
    coming weeks, the attorney general's office told CNET
    News.com today.
 
    ...
 
    Law enforcement officials have not arrested or charged
    anyone affiliated with the ISPs. But the businesses,
    which provided access to the newsgroups, are under
    investigation for what Vacco's office describes as the
    knowing possession of criminal images.
 
    "The servers were confiscated as part of ongoing
    investigation," said Marc Wurzel, spokesman for the
    attorney general. "The ISPs were in possession of
    illegal images of children engaged in sex acts. In both
    cases, they were forewarned that they were in
    possession of illegal images."
 
    The notification came in the form of an email inquiry
    sent by an undercover agent. The agent posed as a
    student wanting to know whether he would run afoul of
    the law by downloading child pornography he had found
    through the newsgroups.
 
    A third New York ISP, located in Albany, responded to
    the undercover inquiries by suspending the newsgroups.
    As a result, that ISP is not under investigation,
    Wurzel said.
 
    ...
 
    Coincidentally, Congress recently passed the Child
    Protection and Sexual Predator Punishment Act, which
    would make ISPs responsible for turning in their
    customers. Under that legislation, access providers who
    fail to report child pornography once they are made
    aware of it could be fined up to $50,000 for the first
    violation and up to $100,000 for each subsequent time
    they fail to contact law enforcement authorities.
 
    ...
 
 
    Vacco has pulled ahead in what only a few weeks ago
    was a tight race for reelection. In a New York
    Times-CBS poll taken in the first week of October,
    Republican Vacco and Democratic opponent Eliot Spitzer
    were statistically tied in their race for the state's
    top law enforcement spot. According to a Times-CBS poll
    released this week, Vacco is now ahead, 48 percent to
    36 percent, with 14 percent of the voters undecided.
 
--  
Eric Michael Cordian 0+
O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division
"Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "James A. Donald" 
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 04:27:59 +0800
To: Robert Hettinga 
Message-ID: <199810311958.LAA27763@proxy4.ba.best.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



    --
At 10:01 PM 10/30/98 -0500, Robert Hettinga wrote:
> I hate to be the one to break this to you, but the United 
> States is now a country in which a man who believes that 
> the President is an agent of the Illuminati has a regular 
> program on public television.

This is not quite as deranged as it seems.  The Masons are of
course not a conspiracy, but one of the services they provide
their members is a facility for constructing and operating
conspiracies.  As a result Masons have been big players on
all sides in most revolutions.

Conspiratorial political movements are common as weeds.  Most
of them aim at stealing nothing larger than arts grants,
fellowships, and research grants, and are often moderately
successful in this endeavor.  Some also aim at stealing
entire nations.  Most of these are not at all successful.  No
Masonic conspiracies have been successful in this, so far as
is known, and the Freemason movement would doubtless
disapprove of such excessive ambition and limitless greed.
The most famous success in stealing an entire nation was of
course Lenin's Bolshevik movement  (not a Masonic
conspiracy), where Lenin stole a bourgeois revolution by
conspiratorial means.  However since Lenin's coup bourgeois
revolutionaries have been on the alert against communist
plots, and the only other success in stealing a bourgeois
revolution from the outside was the Sandinistas in Nicaragua,
where (due to Violeta's naivete and excessive trustfulness)
they stole the revolution that Violeta Chamorro made.

The Masons, being explicitly pro bourgeoisie, would steal a
bourgeois revolution from the inside, if they ever stole a
revolution, which they do not appear to have done.  However,
being both bourgeois and pro bourgeoisie, if the masons were
to steal a bourgeois revolution, it would not be as
dramatically visible as it was when the Sandinistas stole the
Nicaraguan revolution, and I might well be unaware of it.

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     m6fnKPcFhJN/ZGzK/9gIxsmGc/k3Z43gHdDQUkjg
     4CZWSrYQlLd1bd2fAiS22I24OvT3hsupgfaM4bRTN
-----------------------------------------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because 
of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this 
right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.


http://www.jim.com/jamesd/      James A. Donald




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Steve Schear 
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 07:12:11 +0800
To: Bill Stewart 
Subject: Re: don't use passwords as private keys (was Re: Using a  password as a private key.)
In-Reply-To: <199810301443.OAA06479@server.eternity.org>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>If you're worried about RF noise, you have to assume the CPU or disk
>is also radiating enough for the spooks.  On the other hand,
>that video camera in the ceiling can watch your keystrokes,
>but can't watch the CPU.  That's when the paranoids worry about
>whether the KGB is sneaking in and copying their disk drive at night,
>and they start getting encrypted file system software. :-)

That's why some recommend that all secret e-mail be composed and encrypted
on a laptop while disconected from the AC mains, and better yet operated in
an open area (a park) or a place with lots of other electrical noise (a
mall).

--Steve






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 07:43:58 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: [RRE]The Return of Antimasonism in American Political Life
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 11:42 AM -0800 10/31/98, James A. Donald wrote:
>    --
>At 10:01 PM 10/30/98 -0500, Robert Hettinga wrote:
>> I hate to be the one to break this to you, but the United
>> States is now a country in which a man who believes that
>> the President is an agent of the Illuminati has a regular
>> program on public television.
>
>This is not quite as deranged as it seems.  The Masons are of
>course not a conspiracy, but one of the services they provide
>their members is a facility for constructing and operating
>conspiracies.  As a result Masons have been big players on
>all sides in most revolutions.


Masons also had good contacts in what passed for the "intelligence
business" back a few hundred or more years ago. In a time when there was
not much mobility in Europe, as most folks worked farms or ran small shops,
masons were, by their nature, mobile and itinerant construction workers.
They moved to where large building projects were happening, then moved on
when the cathedral or bridge or whatever was completed.

They also needed places to stay when they were in town, so "masonic lodges"
developed. Paid for out of dues collected, with facilities then built.

(No need for such things today, what with hotels and such, but more needed
in, say, 1400.)

The Masons who moved around from town to town and who saw a lot and who met
with other Masons would have access to lots of intelligence about which
kings were planning to expand, about unrest in various areas, etc. Same as
the intelligence that village priests collected in the confessionals and
then fed back through secure channels to Rome. (Not surprising that the
Masons and the Catholics viewed each other with suspicion.)

And then there are the Knights Templars, Cathars, Priory of Sion, and all
the rest of that stuff. (An entertaining read is "Holy Blood, Holy Grail.")

And like many guilds and unions, the flow of knowledge was modulated in
various ways (as usual, to benefit the senior memembers, the bureaucrats,
the "shop stewards," and with the likely cuts to the local kings and
satraps).

There was the expected mumbo jumbo about the knowledge going back to the
Ancients, to the Pyramid builders (back side of the dollar bill fnord), and
secret handshakes (to serve as an indentity credential, as it were).

 Eventually the Masons learned to increase their revenues by letting in
folks who were not actually stoneworkers, and masonry became a professional
contact organization. Hence the large number of Masons who signed the
Declaration of Independence (to royalist Europe, surely a sign of
secularist conspiracy!).

And the memetic power of any secret society is such that various
revolutionaries, mystics, troublemakers, and such will claim connection to
various secret societies, or will recruit from them, etc. Illuminati,
Bilderbergers, Bohemian Grove, etc.

Besides, the Queen of England almost certainly _is_ a dealer of drugs, as
was George Bush and the Boy from Mena.

--Tim May

Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash.
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Jean-Francois Avon" 
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 05:53:27 +0800
To: "Hon  Anne McLellan mp Minister of Justice" 
Subject: Privacy International announces Big Brother awards  ( forwarded via CFD V2 # 670)
Message-ID: <199810312118.QAA15112@cti06.citenet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 09:39:33 -0600
From: "Timothy Bloedow" 
Subject: Privacy International announces Big Brother awards

BBC - October 27, 1998
Sci/Tech
Watching Big Brother
By Internet Correspondent Chris Nuttall

The first annual awards defending the individual's right to privacy have
been made at a ceremony in London.

The 1998 UK Big Brother Awards were held on the 50th anniversary of the
writing of George Orwell's novel, Nineteen Eighty-Four.

The pressure group Privacy International announced winners it judged to be
the modern-day equivalents of Big Brother in the novel, as well as
individuals who had fought to protect privacy, awarding them Winstons, the
name of the book's hero.

Privacy awards to go global
The academics, writers and lawyers who make up Privacy International
concentrated their first awards on the UK, but plan to extend them to other
countries over the next few years.

Hosting the awards, the activist comedian Mark Thomas said eight other
countries were interested in holding similar ceremonies next year.

The director of Privacy International, Simon Davies, said the time was now
right for the awards.

"Surveillance has now become an inbuilt component of every piece of
information technology on the planet, we've got a long way to go to wind the
clock back. I think these awards are the beginning of a movement," he said.

And the winners are ...

The Big Brothers were given for a number of categories:

Corporation: The British firm Procurement Services International received a
Big Brother award for selling surveillance equipment to Nigeria, Turkey and
Indonesia, three countries whose human rights records have been severely
criticised.

Local government: Newham Council in London won for using its 140 street
cameras and facial-recognition software to try to pick out criminals in
crowds.

National government: The Department of Trade and Industry (DTI) was named a
Big Brother over its plans for the police to have access through a third
party to the keys to any information sent electronically that was locked by
encryption.

Product: Software by Harlequin that examines telephone records and is able
to compare numbers dialled in order to group users into 'friendship
networks' won this category. It avoids the legal requirements needed for
phone tapping.

Lifetime achievement award: Menwith Hill in Yorkshire, a listening station
used by America's National Security Agency and described as the biggest US
spy station in the world, won this special award.
None of the winners were present to accept their awards. But a video was
shown of a receptionist at Newham Council receiving a Big Brother earlier in
the day and of several police dragging a Privacy International campaigner
out of the DTI's headquarters after he had tried to present it.

Winstons were awarded to three individuals, cited for campaigning at Menwith
Hill, documenting police surveillance and pursuing a privacy case against a
landlord who had installed a two-way mirror in a 19-year-old woman's flat.

? BBC

------------------------------

Jean-Francois Avon, B.Sc. Physics, Montreal, Canada
  DePompadour, Société d'Importation Ltée
     Limoges fine porcelain and french crystal
  JFA Technologies, R&D physicists & engineers
     Instrumentation & control, LabView programming
PGP keys: http://bs.mit.edu:8001/pks-toplev.html
PGP ID:C58ADD0D:529645E8205A8A5E F87CC86FAEFEF891 
PGP ID:5B51964D:152ACCBCD4A481B0 254011193237822C





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 08:23:00 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: don't use passwords as private keys (was Re: Using a   password as a private key.)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981030182933.008baae0@idiom.com>
Message-ID: <199810312353.SAA23037@camel7.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Steve Schear wrote:

>That's why some recommend that all secret e-mail be composed and encrypted
>on a laptop while disconected from the AC mains, and better yet operated in
>an open area (a park) or a place with lots of other electrical noise (a
>mall).

Not to beat an NDA horse but while we're waiting for NSA to
process our FOIA request for TEMPEST docs, are there
products available to shield a desktop box, or better, a laptop?

We're so ignorant of what's allegedly in the classified docs
that we're trying to design a glass box with RF glazing materials
supplied by a corp that makes it for buildings. It would fit over
the box, keyboard and monitor, and should shield them, but 
leaves cables and power lines to solve, not counting how to get 
our hands into the keyboard. As an alternative we're looking at
a reengineered CAD tablet with puck to select letters and/or 
words/phrases, or maybe a voice gadget. Yeh, yeh, bugs in 
the lamp, but one solution at a time.

If we get it to work, or at least credibly marketable to people more 
techno-stupid than we are, following the cryptography model,
we figure we'll position it as an upscale decorative hot shit 
privacy fashion statement, an anti-spy-tech ensemble made of
temperature sensitive glass to change thoughout the day or as 
passions wax and wane with the market and self-image. 

Retail price: oh, maybe, $25,000 for 100% assured RF protection
("Not Even NSA Can Snoop!) of your secret business communications 
and sordid affairs, give or take a few leakages that'll never be missed 
until the mate's PI burgles the crystal. 

Someone's going to suggest a copper screen sandwiched in pinstriped
serge, but how do you see the monitor? Or a Frank Gehry-warped
Faraday cage, or god knows what's under the NDA blanket. However, 
time's running out: when NSA releases those 12 TEMPEST docs next 
summer that 1000% percent markup on classified TEMPEST products 
is going down.

The market's going to be flooded with certified fakes, ours leading.
The brand name's a secret but you'll see it on the ticker.

Speaking of promo, we saw last night on the Free Congress site a reference
to a report titled "Cyhperpunks v. Cryptocrats: The Battle Over US Encryption
Standards," by Lisa S. Dean. We missed that in the past and the site only
cites it without a link. Anybody know of it, and how to get it? See:

   http://www.freecongress.org/ctp/echelon.html






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 11:31:25 +0800
To: Rpagejr@teclink.net
Subject: euclid and terrorism
Message-ID: <363BC80C.770D@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

http://sunset.backbone.olemiss.edu/~rpagejr/euclid.html

I am into hi-tech stuff.  

But I studied Lobaschevsky and Reimann. 

Attached is mirrored at http://www.aci.net/kalliste/bw1 

And, I hope I recall correctly from Omar Khayyam

  ... the moving hand writes, having writ moves on, nor all thy
  piety or wit can call it back to cancel half a line of it. ...

Best - I am not reading e-mail at send address

bill

Title: Black and White Test of Cryptographic Algorithms




	

	
		
			
				
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 12:59:08 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: TEMPEST laptops
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 3:44 PM -0800 10/31/98, John Young wrote:
>Steve Schear wrote:
>
>>That's why some recommend that all secret e-mail be composed and encrypted
>>on a laptop while disconected from the AC mains, and better yet operated in
>>an open area (a park) or a place with lots of other electrical noise (a
>>mall).
>
>Not to beat an NDA horse but while we're waiting for NSA to
>process our FOIA request for TEMPEST docs, are there
>products available to shield a desktop box, or better, a laptop?

I haven't been following this FOIA request for TEMPEST docs. It seems
pointless, for several reasons:

1. No doubt a lot of stuff will be classified, and FOIA can't break
classification, generally.

2. The physics is what's important, not TEMPEST specs on specfific pieces
of equipment the government may be using, etc.

3. Direct tests on current equipment is more important, anyway.


>We're so ignorant of what's allegedly in the classified docs
>that we're trying to design a glass box with RF glazing materials
>supplied by a corp that makes it for buildings.

Why would something designed for large-scale structures like buildings be
all that useful for shielding a laptop? While it _might_ be useful, there
are building tradeoffs that don't apply to shielding smaller objects.

Why not just go with copper, for example? Or mu-metal? Or even mesh?


>It would fit over
>the box, keyboard and monitor, and should shield them, but
>leaves cables and power lines to solve, not counting how to get
>our hands into the keyboard. As an alternative we're looking at
>a reengineered CAD tablet with puck to select letters and/or
>words/phrases, or maybe a voice gadget. Yeh, yeh, bugs in
>the lamp, but one solution at a time.
>

I don't know who you're doing this project for, but I would approach it
from a different point of view.

* Laptop under battery power...no leakage through a.c. lines

* inside a copper box made of, say, 10-gauge copper. All joints soldered.

* viewing through a kind of viewing hood, with each eye having a couple of
layers of mesh close to the eyes...this should not interfere too much with
viewing the screen (some experimentation would be needed).

* control of keyboard could be done in a couple of ways, e.g.,

-- flexibible gloves coated with conductive material (the skin depth is
likely insufficient to block RF to 80 or so dB, but the combination of
attenuation and limited exit diameter (at the wrists) may be sufficient

-- a new external keyboard with only fiber-optic connections to the
computer, and with no significant local processing, and only low
voltages...I would not be surprised if a keyboard with essentially no
key-varying RF emissions could be built (operating frequency can of course
be very, very low, e.g., a kilohertz or less, and with low voltages, etc.)

-- mouse input, if necessary, can be done with optical mice with infrared
links (helped along with light pipes). No RF to speak of, though this would
have to be characterized in detail.


>If we get it to work, or at least credibly marketable to people more
>techno-stupid than we are, following the cryptography model,
>we figure we'll position it as an upscale decorative hot shit
>privacy fashion statement, an anti-spy-tech ensemble made of
>temperature sensitive glass to change thoughout the day or as
>passions wax and wane with the market and self-image.

I'll follow your business plans with interest.

Not to sound like a cynic (you all know I am, though), but this kind of
"crypto chic" marketing ploy seems doomed to failure. "Privacy fashion
statement" indeed.

>Retail price: oh, maybe, $25,000 for 100% assured RF protection
>("Not Even NSA Can Snoop!) of your secret business communications
>and sordid affairs, give or take a few leakages that'll never be missed
>until the mate's PI burgles the crystal.

What more can I say?

>
>Someone's going to suggest a copper screen sandwiched in pinstriped
>serge, but how do you see the monitor? Or a Frank Gehry-warped
>Faraday cage, or god knows what's under the NDA blanket. However,
>time's running out: when NSA releases those 12 TEMPEST docs next
>summer that 1000% percent markup on classified TEMPEST products
>is going down.
>
>The market's going to be flooded with certified fakes, ours leading.
>The brand name's a secret but you'll see it on the ticker.

Well, I got trolled, it appears, by one of John Young's coleridged rhymes
(and rimes).

I wasted my time addressing what I thought 'til the end was a semi-real, if
flaky, proposal to market a TEMPESTed computer. How stupid of me. I should
know by now never to take John seriously.

--Tim May

Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash.
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 11:52:29 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: update.400 (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811010336.VAA30076@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 09:24:37 -0500 (EST)
> From: physnews@aip.org (AIP listserver)
> Subject: update.400

> PROTONS PERSIST for at least 1.6 x 10^33 years. With few

> THE CONDUCTANCE OF A SINGLE MOLECULE has been
> measured directly by having the molecule bridge the break in a thin
> wire.  Scientists at Yale use the wire ends as electrodes for sending
> current through a small polymer molecule poised between them. 
> Previously the electrical properties of single molecules had been
> studied, but this was through the use of a probe  microscope which
> samples the molecule across a vacuum gap. Mark Reed (203-432-
> 4300, reed@surf.eng.yale.edu) reports  that the current-versus-voltage
> characteristics of the molecule (important for any potential device
> application) resemble those of a quantum dot in that certain electron
> energies are preferred over others, in this case because of the internal
> energy levels of the molecule itself. (Paper to be presented at the
> American Vacuum Society (AVS) meeting in Baltimore, 2-6
> November 1998, website:
> http://www.vacuum.org/symposium/program.html)

> STACKED ORGANIC LIGHT EMITTING DEVICES (SOLEDs)
> produce full color but take up less real estate on a chip than their
> planar counterparts which require 3 single-color pixels.  This higher
> resolution, as well as tunability and good saturation (vivid primary
> colors rather than pastels), can now be had with the same voltages
> and efficiencies that apply to previous  organic displays. Paul
> Burrows of Princeton (burrows@ee.princeton.edu) believes
> computer-sized flat panel displays using SOLEDs will be available
> within a few years.  Smaller displays such as for cellphones may be
> realized even earlier.   (Paper at the AVS meeting.)

> NANOCOMPUTERS IN A BOTTLE.  UCLA scientist James Heath
> and his Hewlett Packard collaborators Stan Williams and Phil Kuekes
> hope to grow computers in chemical solution by building up arrays of
> atoms or molecules (at first in two-dimensional planes but later in
> three-dimensional volumes) linked together with tiny wires, perhaps
> eventually carbon nanotubes.  Such a computer could be tiny (smaller
> than a sand grain), energy efficient (10,000 times more so than current
> silicon computers), and capable of new tricks, such as being able to
> sense and respond to its environment through chemically activated
> switches.  Implementing a chemically assembled computer will depend
> on a high degree of defect tolerance in the wiring, unlike today's
> microprocessors which require wiring  perfection.  Presently the
> UCLA-HP group will be doing rudimentary calculations with a
> computer including some components at the nano and  others at the
> micro level. An all-nano computer performing simple computations,
> Heath believes, is a couple of years away.  Serious applications would
> follow years later.  Heath (310-825-2836, heath@chem.ucla.edu) will
> report on nanocomputers at the AVS meeting.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 05:52:09 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: network computers, web TV, java
Message-ID: <199810312112.WAA12569@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




At 01:31 AM 10/31/98 -0800, Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote:
>hi BLANK
>a company has a *reponsibility* to its customers. perhaps
>you would care to deny that?? gates has a *responsibility*
>to his customers. what is that responsibility? to create
>products they want. to anticipate their needs. 

Wrong from go.  The company has a responsibility to its
owners, the shareholders typically.  The customers are
responsible to themselves for making the best purchases.
Everything falls out of these.









  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Albert P. Franco, II" 
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 10:32:23 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: RE: UK police chase crooks on CCTV (fwd)
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981031204048.0088de80@pop.ctv.es>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Snipped down to DCF's response...

>My point is not that we shouldn't grab them it's that the "Human Rights
>Community" is politically discriminatory and wouldn't think of going after
>commies.
>

Since I live in Spain, I am privy to a side of the story that doesn't seem
to get much air outside of Spain. (At least not that I've seen) In Spain,
Spain is the protagonist in this issue--not the "Human Rights Community".
It may be that they accept any help they may get from these folks, but the
main push is from the families of Spanish citizens murdered by Pinochet. He
not only killed his "countrymen" but also foreign nationals. Spain will try
him for the murders of Spaniards NOT Argentineans, Brazilians, Americans,
or any other nationality. 

>From inside Spain this issue doesn't seem nearly as global as the
international community portrays it. I guess it's kind of like a certain
African nation wanting to try a certain western hemisphere president for
the deaths of some factory workers... Or perhaps in a small way a
refutation of the international norm that protects rulers from the
otherwise natural consequence of their actions.

APF




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Eric Cordian 
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 01:26:49 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: USPS "Know Your Customer" Draws Fire
Message-ID: <199810270748.BAA00246@wire.insync.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Privacy advocates are beginning to take notice of the implications
of the new Postal Service regulations concerning private mailboxes.

-----

SACRAMENTO -- New postal regulations will make private mailboxes
"private" no more, may endanger individual safety, and represent
another government attack on privacy that should not be tolerated, the
Libertarian Party of California announced today.
 
"Why must government continue to erode individual privacy?" asked
Libertarian state chair Mark Hinkle. "What's next? Eliminating
unlisted phone numbers? Criminalizing the use of pseudonyms?"
 
Under the new rules, published in the March 25th Federal Register,
private mailbox customers will now be required to show two forms of ID
-- including one with a photo -- when applying to rent, and mail
delivered to private mailboxes must bear a new address designation,
"PMB," or risk being undelivered. The rules went into effect April
26th.
 
According to the Postal Service, the new rules are designed to combat
mail fraud. But that sounds eerily like another recent government
proposal, Hinkle noted. "It's 'Know Your Customer' all over again. The
government just keeps wanting to invade our privacy."
 
"Know Your Customer" was the name given to proposed government
regulations that would have required banks to develop profiles on
every customer and report suspicious banking activity to the
government. Thanks to a campaign led by the Libertarian Party, the
Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation rescinded the proposed rules in
March.
 
But the similarities remain:
 
* The postal regulations will increase the burden on "Commercial Mail
Receiving Agencies" -- or CMRAs as private mailbox businesses like
Mailboxes Etc. are known -- by making them responsible for verifying
the customer's identity.
 
"Mailbox companies have an interest in reducing fraud but not in
inconveniencing customers," said Hinkle. "Their employees should not
have to act as deputies for the Postal Service."
 
* The rules will eliminate the privacy enjoyed by CMRA customers --
and may endanger some of them.
 
"Private mailbox renters often have very good reasons for keeping a
low profile, such as battered spouses in hiding, celebrities, and law
enforcement officers who want to keep their home addresses
confidential," Hinkle pointed out. "The Postal Service is literally
endangering these individuals."
 
Small businesses started in a home or a garage may rent a private box
to give the appearance of having a physical office. "Thanks to the PMB
designation, all that privacy is now gone and those businesses will
probably suffer as a result," said Hinkle.
 
Even worse, anyone -- not just the police -- can request to see a
customer's application information if that customer is doing or
soliciting business from their private mailbox.
 
* Most troubling, the regulations operate under the assumption that
the customer is guilty until proven innocent.
 
"Just like with 'Know Your Customer,' the Postal Service is depriving
the many of their liberties for the sake of a very small few
lawbreakers. The problem is, criminals do not follow the law and will
find ways around these rules while law-abiding customers are forced to
sacrifice their privacy," charged Hinkle.
 
There's one crucial difference between "Know Your Customer" and the
new postal regulations: whereas "Know Your Customer" was a proposed
rule, the Postal Service has already adopted the new rules, having
first proposed them in August, 1997.
 
"With 8,645 regulations adopted in the last two years, it's easy to
see how this one slipped through the cracks," Hinkle concluded.
"Libertarians denounce the new postal regulations and call on Congress
to recognize the erosion of American privacy -- and to stop it before
privacy goes the way of the Pony Express."

-- 
Eric Michael Cordian 0+
O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division
"Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED NEWS DAILY 
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 02:47:39 -0700 (PDT)
To: (STUFFED THURSDAY OCTOBER 1 1998)
Subject: TODAY'S NEWS AND PICS PACKED STUFFED! - READ IT NOW!
Message-ID: <19981001071000.25713.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


+ 30 FREE HOT JPEG PHOTOS
+ 5 SUPER SEXY STORIES
+ GOP SMUTMONGERS
+ SEX SEX SEX
+ THE ANGRY DWARF
+ STARR DODGES A BULLET
+ EROTIC SPICES
+ THE BEST OF EUREKA
+ FLEA GATE
+ WHERE'S THE BEEF

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/98/10/1/   <----

Welcome to  today's  issue of Stuffed. To read it you should
click on the URL above.  If it is not made clickable by your
email program  you will need to  use your mouse to highlight
the URL,  copy it and then paste it into your browser  (then
press Return).

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/98/10/1/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ExplodeIncome@urgentmail.com
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 06:17:43 -0700 (PDT)
To: No@Nope533.com
Subject: :)  :)  Shed The Pounds The Easy Way  :)  :)
Message-ID: <0031600011057606000002L062*@MHS>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


EAT! EAT! EAT!
And Still Lose Weight!  No Joke!
Need To Lose Weight Quick?  Don't Have Time To Exercise?
HERE'S YOUR ANSWER!
And You Can Eat As Much As You Want!

Introducing Slender Now(tm)
GUARANTEED WEIGHT LOSS FOR LIFE!

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More Importantly, The Rebound Effect So Common 
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BURN - StimuLean(tm) - A Unique Herbal Thermogenic Formula that allows
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 up to 40 grams (360 fat calories) of dietary fat from the foods you've just eaten, 
therefore throwing these excess fat calories out of your body as waste rather than 
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BLOCK - Phase'oLean(tm) - It's back!  Dr. Marshall's Exclusive STARCH 
BLOCKER(tm) FORMULA has been approved for re-release for the first 
time in 15 years! Each tablet has the capacity to block the digestion and 
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BUILD - Aminolyze(tm) - This product contains the specific amino acids 
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Call Toll FREE:  

1-888-668-0615

Due to the overwhelming response, you may get a busy signal.  If you do call
1-888-841-6242





















From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED NEWS DAILY 
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 13:49:36 -0700 (PDT)
To: (STUFFED FRIDAY OCTOBER 2 1998)
Subject: STUFFED IS NOW FASTER THAN EVER/WE HAVE 1,000S OF NEW MEGA-HOT FREE PICS!
Message-ID: <19981002071000.21852.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


+ 30 MEGA HI-RES PICS
+ 5 SUPER-HORNY SEXY STORIES
+ SECURE SEX
+ HOW SEX BECAME DIRTY
+ LOVE AND MARRIAGE
+ BARK LIKE A DOG
+ DRUNK DRIVING WIERDOS
+ THE BEST OF EUREKA
+ WANNA BUY SOME TRASH

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/98/10/2/   <----

Welcome to  today's  issue of Stuffed. To read it you should
click on the URL above.  If it is not made clickable by your
email program  you will need to  use your mouse to highlight
the URL,  copy it and then paste it into your browser  (then
press Return).

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/98/10/2/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Marita Näsman-Repo 
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 02:38:56 -0700 (PDT)
To: Crypto-Press-Global@DataFellows.com
Subject: MEDIA RELEASE: Data Fellows and TSP to Cooperate
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19981002102642.00916c60@smtp.datafellows.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Press Release				For immediate release

Data Fellows Strengthens Its Position as Leading Data Security Vendor in
Europe

TSP and Its Worldwide Partner Network Joins Data Fellows

Helsinki, Finland, October 2, 1998 - Data Fellows, the developer of the
ground-breaking F-Secure Anti-Virus and Cryptography product family, and
the Dutch company TSP - The Security Provider have signed a cooperation and
distribution agreement. 

TSP, whose owners were behind ThunderByte anti-virus toolkit, currently has
over 40 distributors and 12 million ThunderByte users world-wide. TSP
specializes in security consultancy and marketing of information security
products. According to the announced cooperation agreement, TSP will
concentrate on selling Data Fellows products in the Netherlands, and its
international operations and distribution network will be taken over by
Data Fellows and its partners. 

"The addition of TSP to our list of partners will be yet another step
toward our goal of being among the top data security providers in the
world." says Risto Siilasmaa, President and CEO of Data Fellows. "Together
with Data Fellows' complete line of data security products, TSP's network
of distributors around the world is going to make a valuable contribution
to our existing world wide partner network that already covers over 80
countries."

Says Harald Zeeman of TSP, "The anti-virus market structures are changing.
The customers today demand overall data security solutions instead of point
applications. Therefore it is important for a small company like ours to
form alliances and thereby to remain viable. The future belongs to those
who have the broadest expertise and service to its customers.

"With this alliance we are able to serve our existing customer base by
offering them migration not only to the award-winning F-Secure Anti-Virus
product range but above all to the F-Secure Workstation Suite which Data
Fellows recently announced." 

TSP was founded in 1998 after Norman Data Defense Systems B.V. took over
the development of the ThunderByte scanning engine. 

About Data Fellows

Data Fellows is one of the world's leading developers of data security
products. The Company develops, markets and supports anti-virus, data
security and cryptography software products for corporate computer
networks. It has offices in San Jose, California, and Espoo, Finland, with
corporate partners, VARs and other distributors in over 80 countries around
the world. 

All F-Secure products are integrated into the CounterSign management
architecture, which provides a three-tier, scaleable, policy-based
management infrastructure to minimize the costs of security management. 

F-Secure Workstation Suite consists of malicious code detection and
removal, unobtrusive file and network encryption, and personal firewall
functionality, all integrated into a policy-based management architecture.

F-Secure Anti-Virus, with multiple scanning engines (including F-PROT and
AVP), is the most comprehensive, real-time virus scanning and protection
system for all Windows platforms. 

F-Secure VPN+ provides a software-based, IPSEC-compliant Virtual Private
Network solution for large corporate networks as well as remote and small
office networks. 

F-Secure FileCrypto is the first and only product to integrate strong
real-time encryption directly into the Windows file system. 

F-Secure SSH provides secure remote login, terminal, and other connections
over unsecured networks. It is the most widely used secure remote
administration tool.

F-Secure NameSurfer is the solution for remote Internet and Intranet DNS
administration.  Its easy-to-use WWW user interface automates and
simplifies DNS administration.

The Company has customers in more than 100 countries, including many of the
world's largest industrial corporations and best-known telecommunications
companies, major international airlines, European governments, post offices
and defense forces, and several of the world's largest banks. 

The Company was named one of the Top 100 Technology companies in the world
by Red Herring magazine in its September 1998 issue. Other commendations
include Hot Product of the Year 1997 (Data Communications Magazine); Best
Anti-Virus product (SVM Magazine, May 1997); Editor's Choice (SECURE
Computing Magazine); and the 1996 European Information Technology Prize.

For more information, please contact:

USA:

Data Fellows Inc. 
Mr. Petri Laakkonen, President
Tel. +1 408 938 6700, fax  +1 408 938 6701
E-mail:  Petri.Laakkonen@DataFellows.com

Europe:

Data Fellows Oy
Mr. Jari Holmborg, VP, Sales and Marketing  
PL 24   
FIN-02231 ESPOO				
Tel.  +358 9 859 900, fax. +358 9 8599 0599
E-mail: Jari.Holmborg@DataFellows.com
or visit our web site at http://www.DataFellows.com


--
Marita.Nasman-Repo@DataFellows.com, 
World-Wide Web http://www.DataFellows.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: BeF6785@mpifr-bonn.mpg.de
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 10:57:46 -0700 (PDT)
To: ProfitSeekers@IncomeBoosters.com
Subject: Fired!
Message-ID: <199810021755.TAA11878@sun95.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



on fire!!!!

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: info@oaktree.org
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 14:14:58 -0700 (PDT)
To: info@oaktree.org
Subject: Information on New Cellular Battery
Message-ID: <36154A870000007A@oaktree.oaktree.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Information on New Cellular Battery

Hi:

If you or a loved one has ever missed making or receiving a call on your Motorola Cellular Flip
Phone because your battery lost power, you definitely want the All Day Battery from HITEC
Group at http://www.alldaybattery.com. (If you don't have a Motorola Flip Phone or if you have
a digital cellular phone this info is not for you.)

The All Day Battery provides:

1.  Extended Life: Minimum 5 hours of talk time and 36 hours of standby time on the oldest
phones.  Newer phones (more efficient) will get substantially more talk & standby time. 

2.  Patented Technology: The All Day Battery uses patented technology to protect it during the
charging cycle and to insure you that you get the maximum charge the battery will hold.

3.  Power Gauge: This battery has a true gauge display of the power left in the battery.  Standard
battery life indicators on cell phones only tells you that there is a voltage level in the battery - you
may get a level 5 reading and the battery could lose total power in the next instant.

4.  Battery Protection - The worst thing you can do to a battery is charge it.  During the charging
process other batteries are damaged or destroyed by heat and overcharging.  The All Day Battery
is protected from damage and the accurate power gauge tells you when it is fully charged.  All
other batteries try to protect against damage by never fully charging.

5.  Two(2) Year Warranty: A "No Hassle" two-year warranty is part of every All Day Battery.

Cell phones are critical for personal safety and are heavily used for important business activities. 
The All Day Battery is only $99.00 and provides security and functionality value that goes way
beyond that cost.  You can order direct on the Internet via a Verisign Secure site at
http://www.alldaybattery.com.

#############################################################################
This transmission is in compliance with "Section 301, Paragraph (a)(2)(C) of S. 1618, further
transmissions to you by the sender of this E-mail may be stopped at no cost to you by sending a
reply to this E-mail address with the word "remove" in the subject line."
#############################################################################





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Gun Owners of America  (by way of "Edwin E. Smith" )
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 18:28:23 -0700 (PDT)
To: edsmith@IntNet.net
Subject: Federal Power Grab Threatens Your Rights
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19981002203047.0080d100@mailhost.IntNet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Massive New Power Grab By The Feds
   -- gun owners' constitutional rights in jeopardy

Gun Owners of America E-Mail/FAX Alert
8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102, Springfield, VA 22151
Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX: 703-321-8408
http://www.gunowners.org

First, an update on Smith's "Anti-Brady" amendment: The pro-gun
Smith amendment that passed the Senate in July is still awaiting
action in a House-Senate conference committee. In fact, the House
still has yet to pick the House conferees. GOA will keep you
updated on this important legislation which would put the brakes
on FBI's ability to register and tax gun owners. Keep calling
your legislators (202-224-3121) and urge them to oppose the
Commerce-Justice-State bill UNLESS it keeps the Smith language
100 percent intact.

(Friday, October 2, 1998)-- Rep. Bob Barr has discovered that
Janet Reno's Department of Justice (DOJ) is shopping around a
legislative "wish list" to further erode our constitutional
liberties. They are hoping to take advantage of the chaotic
situation in Washington to "load up" an appropriations bill
with a number of frightening expansions of federal power:

  * Enlarged asset forfeiture provisions to allow the FBI to
    seize personal property in both criminal and civil matters
    (your entire gun collection would be at risk)

  * A vastly expanded definition of terrorism to include
    domestic crimes having no relationship to terrorism
    (fighting "terrorism" is a new tactic of the gun grabbers,
    especially since the Supreme Court has stated that the
    Commerce Clause is no longer sufficient)

  * The ability to commandeer personnel from other federal
    agencies without reimbursement (just in case they need
    more agents for the next Waco)

  * Authority to force telephone and Internet companies to
    divulge information on their customers without a warrant
    (someone posts a message threatening the President to a gun
    list, and the feds demand the names and addresses of
    everyone who received the offending message)

  * Expanded wiretap authority to allow "roving" wiretaps of
    innocent citizens and gun owners, and wiretaps without any
    court authority whatsoever (so much for the Fourth
    Amendment)

  * Loosening of Posse Comitatus restrictions to allow more
    military involvement in domestic law enforcement
    (further blurring the line between police and military,
    which means destroying targets rather than making arrests)

  * The establishment of a permanent "FBI Police Force" (one
    could only speculate as to how bad this would be)

  * The power to seize commercial transportation assets for
    federal use (like the rest of the wish list, there is
    zero constitutional authority for this).

In an era in which agencies of the federal government routinely
target law-abiding gun owners for persecution, such assaults on
our constitutional rights must be stopped.

HERE'S WHAT TO DO:

Contact your Representative and both Senators. Urge them to
oppose any DOJ expansion of power through the appropriations
process. Call 202-224-3121 or hit the GOA website at
http://www.gunowners.org for phone, fax and e-mail of individual
Congressional offices.

Tell them to keep Smith in, and to keep the FBI out!


****************************************************************
Did someone else forward this to you? To be certain of getting
up to date information, please consider subscribing directly to
the GOA E-Mail Alert Network. The service is totally free and
carries no obligation. Your e-mail address remains confidential,
and the volume is quite low, usually one or two messages per
week. To subscribe, simply send a message (or forward this
notice) to goamail@gunowners.org and indicate your state of
residence in either the subject or the body. To unsubscribe,
reply to any alert and ask to be removed.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED NEWS DAILY 
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 14:20:23 -0700 (PDT)
To: (STUFFED SATURDAY OCTOBER 3 1998)
Subject: STUFFED IS NOW FASTER THAN EVER/WE HAVE 1,000S OF NEW MEGA-HOT FREE PICS!
Message-ID: <19981003071001.20884.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


+ 30 MEGA HI-RES PICS
+ 5 SUPER-HORNY SEXY STORIES
+ I SAW SATAN IN MY BURGER
+ AMERICANS VERY SLOW IN BED
+ MMMMM THAT WAS GOOD
+ THE CULT OF TWINKIE
+ THE BEST OF EUREKA

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/98/10/3/   <----

Welcome to  today's  issue of Stuffed. To read it you should
click on the URL above.  If it is not made clickable by your
email program  you will need to  use your mouse to highlight
the URL,  copy it and then paste it into your browser  (then
press Return).

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/98/10/3/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Adam Yared" 
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 22:31:31 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: Ozeafood.com - Update and Special Offer
Message-ID: <003001bdee7e$f69b3a20$d1f125cb@workstation>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Attention: Seafood Traders
_______________________________________________

We would like to introduce the premier Seafood Information
Resource for Australian Seafood Importers and Exporters and
Seafood Traders from around the world.

Over 6 months of extensive R&D has resulted in a simple,
usefull online trading system designed specifically for the
industry.

Ozeafood.com is a searchable database of Australian Seafood
Importers and Exporters and their products. The member has
full control over their own listing of products via a
management section.

Advanced features of the service allow members to update
their pricing and stock information, and trade seafood
online.

Take advantage of our special 60 day trial offer. Go to
www.ozeafood.com and enter your companies details.

For information via autoresponder send Email to
options@ozeafood.com

If you would like to discuss an Internet Marketing Strategy,
please call us on 1800 506 516 ( Australian Residents Only )

Ozeafood.com - Australian Seafood Information Resource
_____________________________________________

Website - www.ozeafood.com
Email - info@ozeafood.com
Phone Int + 617 5445 8884
Fax Int + 617 5445 8193















From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill301@success600.com
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 04:39:25 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: Fire the Boss and Break the Alarm Clock!
Message-ID: <009d630512303a8VERY@bill301.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Sent from: Success by Design
4974 N Cedar #116, Fresno, Ca, 93705
209 444-0550, bill301@success600.com
This text is placed here as stipulated in bill S. 1618 Title 3.
http://www.senate.gov/~murkowski/commercialemail/EMailAmendText.html
This is a FREE offer if you wish to be removed from future mailings, put remove in subject and please e-mail to... (remove@success600.com) this software will automatically block you from their future mailings.

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For more info Email to 
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: user6@new-century-commerce.com
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 19:39:46 -0700 (PDT)
To: user6@new-century-commerce.com
Subject: Re:Your inquiry
Message-ID: <199810040239.TAA26315@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Hi,

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 12:24:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Search Engine Placement--Your Key to Web Traffic
Message-ID: <18118141@mci2000.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


**Guaranteed Top 20 Placement**

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=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
This message complies with the proposed United States
Federal requirements for commercial e-mail bill, Section 301.

For additional info see:
http://www.senate.gov/~murkowski/commercialemail/EMailAmendText.html

Required Sender Information:
AMFX Promotions
12407 N. MoPac #100-413
Austin, TX 78758
(512)834-2021

Per Section 301, Paragraph (a)(2)(C) of S. 1618, further
transmissions to you by the sender of this e-mail may be
stopped at NO COST to you by sending an email to
responses@digital.intersponse.com
with the word "remove" in the subject line.
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED NEWS DAILY 
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 09:21:26 -0700 (PDT)
To: (STUFFED SUNDAY OCTOBER 4 1998)
Subject:       ---->   http://stuffed.net/98/10/4/   <----
Message-ID: <19981004071001.20715.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Welcome to  today's  issue of Stuffed. To read it you should
click on the URL above.  If it is not made clickable by your
email program  you will need to  use your mouse to highlight
the URL,  copy it and then paste it into your browser  (then
press Return).

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/98/10/4/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: tlmjc@msn.com
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 14:22:50 -0700 (PDT)
To: website@traffic
Subject: Increase your website traffic dramitcally!
Message-ID: <0d5f537212104a8UPIMSSMTPSYS08@msn.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



  Increase Your Website Traffic Within 72 Hours!

    We'll put YOUR website at the top of the search engines!
 

If your site isn't getting the traffic it should, chances are it's because it's not ranked well on the major Internet search engines. According to recent studies on Internet commerce, over 90% of consumers find the websites they visit by using "The Big Eight" search engines. If your website isn't located in the top 20 pages of those engines, chances are your site will never be seen. What's the point of having an "invisible" website?

The SINGLE most important thing you can do increase your website traffic is to increase your search engine rank.

That's what we'll do for you.


HUGE RESULTS... LITTLE EFFORT...

You can spend hours marketing your site using every technique around, but 
they will all pale in comparison to getting your site properly ranked.  By 
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visitors at your site in as little as 72 HOURS!



HOW THE SEARCH ENGINES RANK YOUR SITE...

When you submit your website to a search engine to be indexed in its 
database, it sends a "robot" out to scan your page. Then, using complex 
algorithms to rank your page for keyword relevance, the "robot" determines 
whether you'll be ranked # 1 or 1,000,000 when potential visitors conduct a 
search looking for sites like yours.

Because the search engines are constantly changing their algorithms to help 
provide users the best possible search results, there's only one true 
solution to high search engine placement. 

Us.



WIN THE SEARCH ENGINE WARS!

We understand these algorithms and will use them very ethically and legitimately to get your website on top. Now you can experience the on-line success you originally built your website for.

If you're not happy with your website's performance, let The Search Engine 
Success Group put YOU on top.



               IT WILL BE THE BEST THING YOU EVER DO TO IMPROVE
 YOUR ON-LINE SUCCESS.




HERE'S WHAT WE DO...

In order to counter the ever changing search engine algorithms, we create 
an entire series of "entry pages" that is optimized for the search engines - one for EVERY keyword you give us! Each entry page is optimized to do well for a different set of algorithm variables. So instead of having ONE page struggling to rank well, we simply create separate entry pages for each keyword! It's through this unique approach that we're able to help YOU conquer the search engines.

Now understand, we don't use "tricks" to fool the engines.  That's unethical and something we won't do.  After all - it's your reputation we have to protect.  What we will do is simply present very relevant keywords for your site to the search engines in the way that they like to see it.  Consequently, your pages rank well because they DO contain information HIGHLY relevant to the search query.  We NEVER build pages for irrelevant yet "popular" keywords.

The "entry pages" act as a welcome screen for your website.  They will say a
few introductory things about your site and then ask the visitor to "Click 
Here To Enter," taking them directly to your current homepage.

In creating these entry pages we DO NOT make any changes to the existing
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construct will link directly into your existing site. As a result, you
can rest assured that your current website will remain exactly the same.




HOW WELL DOES THE SERVICE WORK?

We'll send you a detailed report of your current search engine ranking on 
The Big Eight engines before we begin. Then, once your new entry pages have 
been indexed, we'll send you a second report showing how they've done. 
You'll be able to confirm the results yourself.


Here's a sampling of some results we've gotten for previous clients.  These
examples are for COMPETITIVE keywords - not obscure words that nobody's 
looking for...


<> 6 top 10 rankings on Infoseek for DIFFERENT relevant keywords

<> 18 top 10 rankings across the major search engines

<> 3 top 10 rankings on Alta Vista for ONE keyword

<> 16 total #1 rankings (and an astounding 40 top 30 rankings across 
   the different engines!!)

<> 1-2 hits per week exploded to 500 per day

<> 45,000 hits per month grew to 108,000... (and it's still growing!)



CLIENT COMMENTS:

"INCREDIBLE!! Our site is now receiving more hits in a day than we used to 
get in an entire month. [My boss] is still eating his words!"
-Bob W.

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Thanks."
-Shelley H.

"I worked for weeks to get good search engine placement, but I could never 
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competition."
-Chris L.




WHAT'S THE COST?

Our services are just $385. This includes:

<> Construction of optimized entry pages for up to 20 keywords
   - This gives you good "coverage"

<> Submission to the major search engines

<> A complete report of your search engine rankings before we begin

<> A complete report of your search engine rankings AFTER we've finished


       ****BE SURE TO ASK US HOW TO GET LISTED ON YAHOO!****




WHAT DO I NEED TO DO TO GET STARTED?

<> Call Us - we'll answer any questions.
<> Give us your keywords / keyword phrases (up to 20)
<> Pay us $385
<> Sit back and enjoy the show!


Your confidentiality is assured; we NEVER release any information about our clients.



--Search Engine Success Group--
      410-783-8269                 


***  Remember - our job is to increase your website's rank.  That's what we do.  We can't guarantee, however, that this will increase the number of visitors you get.  Some highly-ranked websites still don't get much traffic.  Much depends on your particular industry and choice of keywords.


-----------------------
If you're not interested in any potential future offers, 
just click reply. Thank you.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: abayley@pop.ihug.co.nz
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 15:44:24 -0700 (PDT)
To: You@aol.com
Subject: Find  Out  Anything  About  Anyone  On  The  Net  !!!!
Message-ID: <199810042243.RAA22281@app.fwi.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



YOU can easily learn how to investigate and learn EVERYTHING 
about your employees, neighbors, friends, enemies, and or
anyone else  !!!


It is absolutely amazing !!!
YOU Must Get This Extraordinary Package today.........


   +  YOU can track down an old friend or a lost love,
     and, just for fun, investigate your family history.

   +  YOU can screen prospective employees criminal records,
     look at their driving, or credit history.

   +  YOU can verify test results from drug testing and even
     look into your children's friends history for any type 
     of record.

   +  YOU can TRACK down and locate an old debtor who is
     hiding from you and see if he/she is hiding any assets.

   +  YOU can look up "unlisted telephone numbers."  Locate
     social security, birth, adoption or death records.
     Check Army, Navy, Marine Corps, or Air Force service
     file records.  YOU will simply be amazed to learn what
     sensitive and important information other people and
     enemies can discover about YOU !!!!!

YOU Can Find Out Anything About Anyone On The Net !!!
Do background checks on people and charge for it, as
you start your own investigative services.
Stop guessing about the LAW !!!
Look up laws and do much more, direct from famous law libraries.
Get this easy to use  KIT  right away, and then,
YOU can become a private investigator.

ORDER TODAY !!!!!


Send $18.00 cash (wrapped in two pieces of paper),
money order, or check to:

                    INFORMATION, Ltd.
                    P. O. Box  515019
                    St. Louis,  MO  63151-5019  USA

The Complete Package Will Be Immediately Shipped
Prepaid Directly to You With Everything You Will Need
In Your Kit to Get Started Right Away !!

THANK YOU for your kind attention, and have a nice day !!!!


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++




YOUR AD IN 333 NEWSPAPERS !!!!!!!!!!
***********************************************

         Seven years ago, I learned how to place my Classified Ad in
several hundred newspapers, with just one telephone call.  And, my
cost was $0.51 per newspaper.  The total circulation was well over
1.5 Million.  I could reach just about any market, anywhere in this
country.  Since then, my small mail-order company has exploded.
And, I use this same time tested and true method week after week.

         I would like to share this powerful information and show you
how to save hundreds, even thousands of dollars on advertising that
works.  The average cost of a classified ad in a newspaper is about
$15.00 to $20.00 dollars.  Multiply that by 333 and your total cost is
well over $6,000.00 Dollars.  By using our amazing method, your
total cost is only $170.00.  Not to mention the time and money you
save by placing one call, instead of 333 long distance calls.

          You can limit your promotion to a Single State or place your
ad in Several States around the country, all with just one phone call.
You can reach One Million Readers on the East-Cost today and a
Million on the West-Coast tomorrow.  It's that simple  !!!!

            Your cost for this priceless information, is only $19.00 !!!  
You will make that back on your first promotion.  WE are so confident that
this type of advertising will boost your profits, we will guarantee your
satisfaction with our Money Back Guarantee !!  So, you have nothing
to lose.  Now, order our amazing classified ad method today !!!!!! 


                                PRINT ORDER FORM
Ship To:                    **************************
*********
NAME____________________________________________

ADDRESS________________________________________

CITY______________________________________________

STATE__________________    ZIP_____________________

E-MAIL__________________________________

Don't Delay,   ORDER YOUR COMPLETE MEDIA KIT TODAY !!!!!!!

**********************************************************************
Mail Payment  $19.00  CASH,  money order,  or check  TO:
********************
 
                                  INFORMATION, Ltd.
                                  P. O. Box  515019 
                                  St. Louis, MO 63151-5019  
                                  U.S.A.

WE will ship your complete KIT directly to you !!!!
 

**************************************************************
OPTIONAL / OVERNIGHT SHIPPING - ADD $15.00
**************************************************************
                          
Thank you for your kind attention, and have a nice day !!!


       YOU MAY ORDER BOTH PACKAGE KITS FOR ONLY $33.00



++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Admin
Internet Services
This message is not intended for residents in the 
State of Washington, screening of addresses has been done
to the best of our technical ability.
If you are a Washington resident or otherwise wish to be
removed from this list, go to global remove site if you want
your address removed from future mailing. 
http://209.84.246.162/remove.htm
 
This Global Communication has been sent to you by:
PAVILION ADVERTISING SERVICES
Offices:  London, Paris, Berlin, Hong Kong






















From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Scott Balson" 
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 02:03:02 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: One Nation thank you
Message-ID: <003401bdef6d$c1e31380$675212cb@QU.fox.uq.net.ai>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





Dear One Nation supporter in 
NSW 
Pauline Hanson would like to personally thank you for the 
outstanding support that you gave to the party before and during the 
election.
 
Coverage of the events in Blair - including the One Nation 
party on election evening can be seen on-line at:
 
http://www.gwb.com.au/gwb/news/onenation/federal/live
 
---------
 
PARTIES CONSPIRE TO KEEP IMMIGRATION OUT OF ELECTION, BOOK SHOWSThe 
author of a new book called "This Tired Brown Land" has accused the 
majorpolitical parties of conspiring to keep immigration and population off 
theelection agenda. The book has already attracted good 
reviews.Author Mark O'Connor today claimed that both the major political 
partieswere suppressing discussion in order to deny One Nation 'the oxygen 
ofpublicity'. But it is exactly such bipartisan ignoring of public 
sentimenton immigration which caused One Nation, and led to the enormous 
success ofPaul Sheehan's book Among the Barbarianns.Immigration 
Minister Philip Ruddock recently launched the Coalition'spolicy in Perth-too 
late in the day for the Eastern media to pick up thestory. Says author Mark 
O'Connor, 'Clearly the Coalition knows its policyis not what the electorate 
wants.'Polls show that the electorate has made up its mind. Only 2% or 
3% ofvoters want immigration increased; and they are outnumbered, some 30 
toone, by the 65% or 70% who want it reduced. Neither ethnic Australians 
norAborigines support higher immigration. Most Australians 
supportmulticulturalism, yet want an immediate moratorium on 
immigration.'My book shows that in 1994-95 (under Labor) our net 
migration gain (ABSfigures) was 80,100 persons. Last year it was 83,700. 
Despite this, theCoalition has tried to give the impression of reducing 
immigration. Somecritics have even accused the government of 
"racism" for "reducingimmigration". This is 
false.'The book is available throough bookshops at $16.95, orby 
cheque or money order from Duffy & Snellgrove for $19.95 (includes p&p) 
atPO Box 177Potts Point NSW 1335fx 2 9386 1530dands@magna.com.au
 
------------------
 
GWB
 
 
 
Scott Balson
Pauline Hanson's One Nation web 
master


From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: greens322@hotmail.com
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 19:46:06 -0700 (PDT)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: Read Carefully!!!
Message-ID: <199810050244.WAA09649@rome.ntr.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


                                                                    

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bv111@hotmail.com
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 21:14:17 -0700 (PDT)
To: 123458@qqeioweisssiiie.com
Subject: SPY FILE!!!....GET THE DIRT ON ANYONE!!!!
Message-ID: <199234233019.GAA08423@qqeioweisssiiie.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain






THIS IS A ONE TIME MAILING.  IF YOU ARE NOT INTERESTED, SIMPLY DELETE!


 
Massive Internet SNOOP File!
 
What would you give to be able to find:
Agencies - Obtain your FBI file! Check out the latest government scandal! 
Performing background checks - The wealth of information in this list is scary and could be banned!
Most wanted lists - Say, was that your new neighbor?! 
People Finders - Find almost anybody anywhere in the US! 
We have all heard about the vast amounts of information that can be found on the internet and to some extent we have all discovered how useful it can be. However, did you know that you can find out practically anything about a person and/or business on the Internet? Armed with this professional but, easy to use list, you can use the same sources that more and more private investigators are using to track, locate, background check or screen almost anyone anywhere.
This is not one of those lists that's thrown together with a bunch of outdated links. These are the best links for your investigative needs! You have a right to know! 
Search For People - Find Almost Anyone- Find people who have relocated -- Vital statistics -- Find people who have changed their name, email address or phone -- Resources for finding adoptees and birth parents -- Social security lookups - - Military databases -- Find people using their phone number -- Create a map showing directions right to a person's door -Tap Into Investigative Sources- Bank account information -- Driver's records -- Lawsuits -- Employment sceening -- Criminal records -- Asset identification -- Your FBI file -- Investigative information -- Secrets of the past -- Tax liens -- Anything on anybody -- Listen in on the police radios (scanner) -Search Various Government Resources - State by State information -- Government databases -- CIA information -- Legal databases - - Court documents -Visit Numerous Information Sources- Send anonymous email - - Illegal drug archives - - Track anyone's newsgroup postings -- Surf anonymously on the net -- FBI's most wanted -- Check the Internet's better business bureau -- Criminal databases -- Sources for underground books & information -And Much More!
LOOKING FOR SOMEONE!!!

THIS IS IT !!!

THE ULTIMATE IN SPY SOURCE INVESTIGATIVE DISKS LOOK NO FURTHER CAUSE THIS ONE DOES IT ALL!!!

NEED INFORMATION ABOUT POTENTIAL EMPLOYEE'S?

HOW ABOUT INFO ABOUT YOUR BOSS? OR FUTURE EMPLOYERS?

MAYBE YOU NEED TO KNOW MORE ABOUT THE PERSON YOU'RE DATING!

NEED TO SEE YOUR CREDIT FILE? OR THAT OF SOMEONE ELSE?

WHATEVER YOU NEED TO KNOW, THIS DISC WILL HELP YOU FIND IT OUT!!

Now The Sources Used By Private Investigators Can Be At Your Fingertips! A Must Have For Those Who NEED To Be Able To Find Out Practically Anything About Practically Anybody Some Free Sources And Others That Charge A Small Fee, To Track, Locate, Run a Background Check Or Screen Anyone, Anywhere. 
THIS SPY SOURCE INVESTIGATIVE DISK IS FOR USE IN BOTH WINDOWS AND DOS. AND INCLUDES A DIRECTORY OF ONLINE SOURCES! Maybe You Want To Start Your Own Private Investigative Information Services Business, Compiling & Selling Valuable Information To Prospective Clients. You'll Be Amazed At The Information Sources That Are Available On This Diskette. 


THE SPY SOURCES INCLUDE:


* Asset Identification * 
* Investigative & Intelligence Information * 
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* Anything About Anybody *
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* State By State Information Services *
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Learn EVERYTHING about your friends, neighbors, enemies, employees, even your boss, even yourself! Unlock incredible hidden sites-and more! 
Over 300 giant resources to look up people 
* credit 
* social security 
* current or past employment 
* mail order purchases 
* addresses 
* phone numbers... PLUS 
** Track down an old debt, or anyone else that has done you wrong! 
** Locate an old friend, a lost loved one--find e-mail, telephone or address information on anyone! 
** Even look up *unlisted* phone numbers! 
** Investigate your family history! 
** Check birth, death, adoption or social security records of Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps. 
** Get juicy tid-bits about your co-workers! 
** Check out a new boyfriend or girlfriend--Before it's too late! 
** Find trial transcripts and court orders! 
** Check credit, driving, and criminal records! 
No one will ever know you were checking up on them! 
The internet is a powerful megasource of information, if you know where to look. I will show you how to find out nearly ANYTHING on ANYBODY! You will be amazed to find out what personal information can find out about YOU! Check your credit report and see for yourself! 
Best of all, this information costs only $8.00. Obviously, it's worth a lot more. Don't miss out, as this opportunity won't be around for long!
Free Delivery by E-Mail. Disk sent for additional $2.00

Please send concealed cash, check, or money order to:

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8 Melody Lane
Effort,  PA  18330

P.S.  PLEASE INCLUDE E-MAIL 
ADDRESS FOR E-MAIL DELIVERY.




























THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.





























BYE.








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: badibe@uni-paderborn.de
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 00:18:38 -0700 (PDT)
To: You@yourplace.com
Subject: YOUR  CLASSIFIED - AD / 333  NEWSPAPERS  !!!!
Message-ID: <199810050718.AAA06358@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



YOUR AD IN 333 NEWSPAPERS !!!!!!!!!!
***********************************************

         Seven years ago, I learned how to place my Classified Ad in
several hundred newspapers, with just one telephone call.  And, my
cost was $0.51 per newspaper.  The total circulation was well over
1.5 Million.  I could reach just about any market, anywhere in this
country.  Since then, my small mail-order company has exploded.
And, I use this same time tested and true method week after week.

         I would like to share this powerful information and show you
how to save hundreds, even thousands of dollars on advertising that
works.  The average cost of a classified ad in a newspaper is about
$15.00 to $20.00 dollars.  Multiply that by 333 and your total cost is
well over $6,000.00 Dollars.  By using our amazing method, your
total cost is only $170.00.  Not to mention the time and money you
save by placing one call, instead of 333 long distance calls.

          You can limit your promotion to a Single State or place your
ad in Several States around the country, all with just one phone call.
You can reach One Million Readers on the East-Cost today and a
Million on the West-Coast tomorrow.  It's that simple  !!!!

            Your cost for this priceless information, is only $19.00 !!!  
You will make that back on your first promotion.  WE are so confident that
this type of advertising will boost your profits, we will guarantee your
satisfaction with our Money Back Guarantee !!  So, you have nothing
to lose.  Now, order our amazing classified ad method today !!!!!! 


                                PRINT ORDER FORM
Ship To:                    **************************
*********
NAME____________________________________________

ADDRESS________________________________________

CITY______________________________________________

STATE__________________    ZIP_____________________

E-MAIL__________________________________

Don't Delay,   ORDER YOUR COMPLETE MEDIA KIT TODAY !!!!!!!

**********************************************************************
Mail Payment  $19.00  CASH,  money order,  or check  TO:
********************
 
                                  INFORMATION, Ltd.
                                  P. O. Box  515019 
                                  St. Louis, MO 63151-5019  
                                  U.S.A.

WE will ship your complete KIT directly to you !!!!
 

**************************************************************
OPTIONAL / OVERNIGHT SHIPPING - ADD $15.00
**************************************************************
                          
Thank you for your kind attention, and have a nice day !!!


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Find Out Anything About Anyone On The Net  !!!
=========================================

YOU can easily learn how to investigate and learn EVERYTHING 
about your employees, neighbors, friends, enemies, and or
anyone else  !!!


It is absolutely amazing !!!
YOU Must Get This Extraordinary Package today.........


   +  YOU can track down an old friend or a lost love,
     and, just for fun, investigate your family history.

   +  YOU can screen prospective employees criminal records,
     look at their driving, or credit history.

   +  YOU can verify test results from drug testing and even
     look into your children's friends history for any type 
     of record.

   +  YOU can TRACK down and locate an old debtor who is
     hiding from you and see if he/she is hiding any assets.

   +  YOU can look up "unlisted telephone numbers."  Locate
     social security, birth, adoption or death records.
     Check Army, Navy, Marine Corps, or Air Force service
     file records.  YOU will simply be amazed to learn what
     sensitive and important information other people and
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YOU Can Find Out Anything About Anyone On The Net !!!
Do background checks on people and charge for it, as
you start your own investigative services.
Stop guessing about the LAW !!!
Look up laws and do much more, direct from famous law libraries.
Get this easy to use  KIT  right away, and then,
YOU can become a private investigator.

ORDER TODAY !!!!!


Send $18.00 cash (wrapped in two pieces of paper),
money order, or check to:

                    INFORMATION, Ltd.
                    P. O. Box  515019
                    St. Louis, MO  63151-5019  USA

The Complete Package Will Be Immediately Shipped
Prepaid Directly to You With Everything You Will Need
In Your Kit to Get Started Right Away !!

THANK YOU for your kind attention, and have a nice day !!!!


       YOU MAY ORDER BOTH PACKAGE KITS FOR ONLY $33.00


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Admin
Internet Services
This message is not intended for residents in the 
State of Washington, screening of addresses has been done
to the best of our technical ability.
If you are a Washington resident or otherwise wish to be
removed from this list, go to global remove site if you want
your address removed from future mailing. 
http://209.84.246.162/remove.htm
 
This Global Communication has been sent to you by:
PAVILION INTERNATIONAL SERVICES
Offices:  London, Paris, Berlin, Hong Kong


















From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED MONDAY OCTOBER 5 1998 
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 01:20:47 -0700 (PDT)
To: (THE ULTIMATE DAILY SEXY SITE!)
Subject:       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----
Message-ID: <19981005071000.8168.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


STUFFED HAS EVOLVED OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF MONTH, THANKS TO
ALL YOUR FEEDBACK.  NOW WE HAVE BOUGHT IN THOUSANDS MORE HI-
RES  PHOTOS FROM  TOP SEX  PHOTOGRAPHERS,  WE SCOUR  THE WEB
EACH DAY TO FIND LINKS TO SITES WITH  100S MORE FREE IMAGES,
AND THERE'S SO MUCH MORE,  SUCH AS THE FIVE EXTRA BONUS PICS
YOU GET  EVERY DAY NOW,  THAT YOU WON'T FIND  ON THE STUFFED
WEB SITE, THEY ARE EXCLUSIVE TO OUR SUBSCRIBERS! AND THERE'S
SO MUCH MORE TO COME, SO KEEP COMING BACK FOR MORE EACH DAY!

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: wilfrido1@aol.com
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 15:15:56 -0800 (PST)
To: wilfrido1@aol.com
Subject: *** Holiday Cash ***
Message-ID: <199812060100.BAA29765@fd1.fildirect.fr>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Date: December 5, 1998


THIS IS IT FOLKS!!

This is THE LETTER you've been READING about
in the NEWS lately.

Due to the popularity of this letter on the
Internet, a major nightly news program recently
devoted an entire show to the investigation of
the program described below, to see if it really
can make people money.  If you saw it, you know
that their conclusion was that while most people 
did not make the $55,000, as discussed in the plan,
EVERYONE who followed the instructions was able to 
make 100 to 160 times their money at the VERY LEAST.

The show also investigated whether or not the
program was legal.  Their findings proved once and
for all that there are absolutely no laws prohibiting
the participation in the program.  "This is one of
the most exciting opportunities with the MOST income
potential on the internet today!"  - - 48 Hours.

Hi, my name is Susan.  After I saw this letter aired
on the news program, I decided to get some of my
skeptical questions answered.

Question #1 - Does it really work?  Until I try it,
I can only go on the testimony of people I don't know,
so I will only know if I try it.  I've never done
this type of thing, but I decided it was time to try
something.  If I keep doing what I am doing I'll keep
getting what I've got.  Besides, people 70 years old
have been surveyed and they have consistently said
that the 2 regrets they have had in their lives were
that:

	1)  They wish they had spent more time with
	     their families. 

	and
	
	2)  They wish they had taken more chances

Upon hearing this again, and hearing what the media
said about it, I decided that at age 42, I was going to
take a small chance and see what would come of it.

Question #2 - Is it legal?  - Yes,  (Refer to title 18, 
Section 1302 & 1342 of the U.S. Postal and Lottery
Laws)  This opportunity isn't much of a risk and could
turn out to actually be a bit of fun.

Bottom Line;
The risk is only $20 and time on the Internet.
The following is a copy of the letter that the media
was referring to:

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

This is a LEGAL, MONEYMAKING PHENOMENON.
PRINT this letter, READ the directions, THEN READ IT
AGAIN ! ! !

You are about to embark on the most profitable and
unique program you may ever see!  Many times over,
it has demonstrated and proven its ability to
generate large amounts of cash!  This program is
showing fantastic appeal with a huge and ever-growing
on-line population desirous of additional income.

This ia a legitimate, LEGAL, moneymaking opportunity.
It does not require you to come in personal contact
with people, do any hard work, and best of all, you
never have to leave the house, except to get the mail
and go to the bank!

This truly is that lucky break you've been waiting
for!  Simply follow the easy instructions in this
letter, and your financial dreams can come true!
When followed correctly, this electronic, multi-
level marketing program WORKS!

Thousands of people have used this program to:
	-  Raise capital to start their own businesses
	-  Pay off debts
	-  Buy homes, cars, etc.,
	-  Even retire!

This is your chance, Don't pass it up!

------------------------------------------------------
OVERVIEW OF THIS EXTRAORDINARY

ELECTRONIC MULTI-LEVEL MARKETING PROGRAM
------------------------------------------------------

Basically, this is what we do:

We send thousands of people a product for which they
paid us $5.00 US.  The product costs next to nothing
to produce.  We then e-mail the product back to them.

As with all multi-level businesses, we build our business by
recruiting new partners and selling our products.
Every state in the U.S. allows you to recruit new
multi-level business online (via your computer).

The products in this program are a series of four
business and financial reports costing $5.00 each.
Each order you receive is to include:

	*  $5.00 cash United States Currency

	*  The name and number of the report they are
	    ordering
	
	*  The e-mail address where you will e-mail 
	    them the report they ordered.

To fill each order, you simply e-mail the product to 
the buyer.  THAT'S IT!  The $5.00 is yours!  This is
the EASIEST electronic multi-level marketing business
anywhere!

FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS TO THE LETTER AND
BE PREPARED TO REAP THE STAGGERING BENEFITS!

+++++++++  I  N  S  T  R  U  C  T  I  O  N  S  ++++++++

This is what you MUST do:

1.  Order all 4 reports shown on the list below
     (you can't sell them if you don't order them).

*  For each report, send $5.00 CASH, the NAME &
   NUMBER OF THE RPORT YOU ARE ORDERING, YOUR E-MAIL
   ADDRESS, and YOUR RETURN POSTAL ADDRESS  (in case of
   a problem)  to the person whose name appears on the
   list next to the report.

*  When you place your order, make sure you order 
   each of the four reports.  You will need all four
   reports so that you can save them on your computer
   and resell them.

*  Within  a  few days you are to receive, via e-mail,
   each of the four reports.  Save them on your computer
   so they will be accessible for you to send to the
   thousands of people who will order them from you.

2.  IMPORTANT -- DO NOT alter the names of the people
     who are listed next to each report, or their sequence
     on the list, in any way other than as instructed
     below in steps "a" through "d".If you do, you will lose out
     on the majority of your profits.  Once you understand
     the way this works, you'll also see how it doesn't
     work if you change it.  Remember that this method has
     been tested, and if you alter it, it will not work.

a.  Look below for the listing of available reports.

b.  After you've ordered the four reports, replace 
     the name and address under REPORT #1 with your name
     and address, moving the one that was there down to
     REPORT #2.

c.  Move the name and address that was under REPORT
     #2 down to REPORT #3.

d.  Move the name and address that was under REPORT
     #3 down to REPORT #4.

e.  The name and address that was under REPORT #4
     is removed from the list and has NO DOUBT collected
     large sums of cash!

     Please make sure you copy everyone's name and address
     ACCURATELY! ! ! (Please be sure to specify the country to
     which payment is to be made.  For instance: U.S.A. if      mailing from another country.) 

3.  Take this entire letter, including the modified
     list of names, and save it to your computer.  Make
     NO changes to the instruction portion of this letter.

4.  Now you're ready to start an advertising campaign
     on the WORLDWIDE WEB!  Advertising on the WEB can be 
     very, very inexpensive, and there are HUNDREDS of
     FREE places to advertise.  Another avenue, which you
     could use for advertising, is e-mail lists.  You can
     buy these lists for as little as $20/2,000 addresses or you
     can pay someone to take care of it for you.  BE SURE
     TO START YOUR AD CAMPAIGN IMMEDIATELY!

5.  For every $5.00 you receive, all you must do is
     e-mail them the report they ordered.  THAT'S IT!
     ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON ALL
     ORDERS!  This will help guarantee that the e-mail 
     THEY send out, with YOUR name and address on it, 
     will be prompt because they can't advertise until they 
     receive the report!  To grow fast be prompt and courteous.

---------------------------------------------------------
AVAILABLE REPORTS
*Order Each REPORT by NUMBER and NAME*

Notes:
-  ALWAYS SEND $5 CASH FOR EACH REPORT
-  ALWAYS SEND YOUR ORDER VIA THE QUICKEST DELIVERY
-  Make sure the cash is concealed by wrapping it
    in at least two sheets of paper
-  On one of those sheets of paper, include:  (a) the
   number & name of the report you are ordering,  (b)
   your e-mail address, and (c) your postal address.

_____________________________________________________

REPORT #1 "HOW TO MAKE $250,000 THROUGH MULTI-LEVEL
SALES"
ORDER REPORT #1 FROM:

		P. Green
		General Delivery
		Port Tobacco,   MD  20677
		U.S.A.
_____________________________________________________

REPORT #2  "MAJOR CORPORATIONS AND MULTI-LEVEL SALES"
ORDER REPORT #2 FROM:

		Inter-Line Systems
		PO Box 175
		Milford,  NJ  08848
______________________________________________________

REPORT #3  "SOURCES FOR THE BEST MAILING LISTS"
ORDER REPORT #3 FROM:

		Galactic Whispers
		PO Box 291
		Pittstown,  NJ  08867
______________________________________________________

REPORT #4  "EVALUATING MULTI-LEVEL SALES PLANS"
ORDER REPORT #4 FROM:

		DEM
		3 Tallyho Lane
		Bow,  NH 03304
______________________________________________________

------------------------------------------------------
HERE'S HOW THIS AMAZING PLAN WILL MAKE YOU $MONEY$
------------------------------------------------------

Let's say you decide to start small just to see how
well it works.  Assume your goal is to get 10 people
to participate on your first level.  (Placing a lot
of FREE ads on the internet will EASILY get a larger
response.)  Also assume that everyone else in YOUR
ORGANIZATION gets  ONLY 10 downline members.  Follow
this example to achieve the STAGGERING results below.

1st level - - your 10 members with $5 .. . . . . .$50

2nd level - - 10 members from those 10 
($5 x 100) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$500

3rd level - - 10 members from those 100
($5 x 1,000) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$5,000

4th level - - 10 members from those 1,000
($5 x 10,000) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $50,000

THIS TOTALS  - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -  - - - $55,550

Remember friends, this assumes that the prople who
participate only recruit 10 people each.  Think for
a moment what would happen if they got 20 people to
participate!  Lots of people get 100s of participants!
THINK ABOUT IT!

Your cost to participate in this is practically
nothing (surely you can afford $20).  You obviously
already have an internet connection and e-mail is
FREE! ! !  REPORT #3 shows you the most productive
methods for bulk e-mailing and purchasing e-mail
lists.  Some list & bulk e-mail vendors even work
on trade!

About 50,000 new people get online every month

****TIPS FOR SUCCESS****

*  TREAT THIS AS YOUR BUSINESS!  BE PROMPT,
    professional, and follow the directions accurately.

*  Send for the four reports IMMEDIATELY so you will
   have them when the orders start coming in because:
   When you receive a $5 order, you MUST send out the
   requested product/report to comply with the U.S.
   Postal & Lottery Laws, Title 18, Sections 1302 and
   1341 or Title 18, Section 3005 in the U.S. Code
   also Code of Federal Regs.  vol..  16, Sections 255
   and 436, which state that "a product or service
   must be exhanged for money received."

*  ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON THE ORDERS YOU
   RECEIVE.

*  Be patient and persistent with this program.  If
   you follow the instructions exactly, the results
   WILL undoubtedly be SUCCESSFUL!

*  ABOVE ALL, HAVE FAITH IN YOURSELF AND KNOW YOU
   WILL SUCCEED!

     ***********YOUR SUCCESS GUIDELINE*************

Follow these guildelines to help assure your success:

If you don't receive 10 to 20 orders for REPORT #1
within two weeks, continue advertising until you do.
Then, a couple of weeks later you should receive at
least 50 orders for REPORT #2.  If you don't,
continue advertising until you do.  Once you have
received 50 or more orders for REPORT #2, YOU CAN
RELAX,  because the system is already working for you,
and the cash can continue to roll in!

THIS IS IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER:

Every time your name is moved down on the list, you
are placed in front of a DIFFERENT report.  You can
KEEP TRACK of your PROGRESS by watching which report
people are ordering from you.  If you want to
generate more income, send another batch of e-mails
and start the whole process again!  There is no limit
to the income you will generate from this business!

Note To U.S. Paticipants:  If you need help with starting a business,
registering a business name, how income tax is
handled, etc., contact your local office of the
Small Business Administration (a Federal agency) for
free help and answers to questions.  Also, the
Internal Revenue Service offers free help via
telephone and free seminars about business taxes.

If you have any question of the legality of this
letter contact the Office of Associate Director for
Marketing Practices Federal Trade Commission Bureau
of Consumer Protection in Washington, DC.

******  T  E  S  T  I  M  O  N  I  A  L  S  *******

This program does work, but you must follow it EXACTLY!
Especially the rule of not trying to place your name
in a different position, it won't work and you'll lose
a lot of potential income.  I'm living proof that it
works.  It really is a great opportunity to make
relatively easy money, with little cost to you.  If you
do choose to participate, follow the program exactly.
Sean McLaughlin, Jackson, Ms.

The main reason for this letter is to convince you
that this system is honest, lawful, extremely
profitable, and is a way to get a large amount of
money in a short time.  I was approached several
times before I checked this out.  I joined just to
see what one could expect in return for the minimal
effort and money required.  To my astonishment, I 
received $36,470.00 in the first 19 weeks, with money
still coming in.
Phillip A. Brown, Esq.

I had received this program before.  I deleted it, but
later I wondered if I shouldn't have given it a try.
Of course, I had no idea who to contact to get another
copy, so I had to wait until I was e-mailed another
program . . . 11 months passed then it came . . . I didn't
delete this one! . . . I made more than $41,000 on the
first try!!
D. Wilburn, Muncie,  In.

This is my third time to participate in this plan.
We have quit our jobs, and will soon buy a home on
the beach and live off the interest on our money.
The only way on earth that this plan will work for
you is if you do it.  For your sake, and for your
family's sake don't pass up this golden opportunity.
Good luck and happy spendiong!
Charles Fairchild,  Spokance,  Wa.

I am nearing the $90,000 mark from this program.  I
have used several forms of advertisement.  I used
regular mail and bulk e-mail.  The regular mail that
I used was very expensive for two reasons.  I purchased
a very select list of names and the postage.  The third
time I sent e-mails out, I did so in the quantity of
1 million.  So, after 3 times participating in this
program I am almost at the $90,000 mark.  That isn't
too bad.  I hope the same success for you.
Raymond McCormick,  New Canna,  Ct.

------------------------------------------------------
You have great potential for extra earnings that is
available at your fingertips!  You have unlimited
access to wealth, but you must be willing to take
that first step!  The Media ALREADY PROVED That ! ! ! 

You could be making an obscene amount of money!  I
have given you the information, materials, and
opportunity to become financially better off.  IT IS
UP TO YOU NOW!  - THINK ABOUT IT - Your risk is only
$20.?  HOW MUCH DO YOU SPEND ON LOTTO TICKETS -
  for NO RETURN?
ORDER YOUR REPORTS TODAY
AND GET STARTED ON YOUR ROAD
TO FINANCIAL FREEDOM! ! ! :)





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: rikoso81@prodigy.com
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 00:02:44 -0700 (PDT)
To: rikoso81@prodigy.com
Subject: Regarding- Psychic Readings
Message-ID: <199810053451FAA9809@post.daikei.co.jp>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Boone Psychic Counseling

(828)262-3487

Located in Boone,North Carolina

"PSYCHIC Readings by Melissa Stone"



Psychic Melissa Stone is available to you for the first time publicly on 

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E. Dissolvement Of All Occult Activity In Your Life Or A Loved Ones 

F. Be Relived Of Tension,Depression,Anxiety,Ect.

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H. Quartz Crystal Readings

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: positzzzsu@yahoo.com
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 03:12:01 -0700 (PDT)
To: positzzzsu@yahoo.com
Subject: 725+ Search Engines
Message-ID: <199810051009.SAA29107@public.>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


!!!LOWEST PRICE EVER!!!!!

REGULAR $89......ONE WEEK ONLY...$38        we9

WE WILL SUBMIT YOUR WEBSITE OR HOMEPAGE TO 725+ SEARCH ENGINES
AND PROVIDE YOU WITH A REPORT SHOWING ALL SUCCESSFUL SUBMISSIONS!!

WORRY FREE INTERNET TRANSACTION---WE WILL SUBMIT YOUR SITE AND E-MAIL YOUR REPORT WITHIN 48 HOURS OF RECEIPT OF YOUR FAXED CHECK....WE WON'T EVEN DEPOSIT IT UNTIL YOUR SUBMISSION IS COMPLETE...IF WE DON'T DO AS WE SAY, YOU CAN ALWAYS STOP PAYMENT ON CHECK....NOW WE HAVE TO TRUST YOU, AS WE WILL HAVE COMPLETED THE WORK BEFORE YOUR BANK HAS EVEN HONERED YOUR CHECK!!!!

RESERVE YOUR SPOT NOW!!!  DO NOT RESERVE YOUR SPOT VIA E-MAIL, MUST BE FAX!!!

YOU CAN FAX US A CHECK TO RESERVE YOUR SPOT AND WE WILL IMPORT IT INTO
OUR CHECK PROCESSING SOFTWARE, NO NEED TO MAIL IT.

MAKE IT OUT TO K.L. COMPANY AND   FAX TO 714 768-3650 WITH THE FOLLOWING INFO

YOUR NAME:
COMPANY NAME:

URL OF SITE: http://

e-mail Address:

Title of site(up to 25 words)



Description of site(up to 50 words):





Keywords(up to 6)

Phone#


QUESTIONS?


ALL ORDERS WILL BE SUBMITTED WITHIN 48 HOURS....           

we9









From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Gambler@msn.com
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 22:42:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Best online casino odds
Message-ID: <199810060542.WAA14986@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




The best odds and easy cashier options at any online casino is 
at:

 Virtual
Casino

Great games, graphics, and sound too.
 
 
 
 
 
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED TUESDAY OCTOBER 6 1998 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 02:22:52 -0700 (PDT)
To: (THE ULTIMATE DAILY SEXY SITE!)
Subject: EVEN MORE FREE PORN: STUFFED HAS 10 LINKS TO 100S OF FREE PICS, NEW EVERY DAY
Message-ID: <19981006071000.17518.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


+ 30 SUPERB, HI-RES, HOT PHOTOS
+ 5 SUPER SEXY STORIES
+ FOOD FETISH DELIGHT
+ ANAL ARCHIVE
+ NIMROD'S HAREM
+ EXOTIC EROTICA
+ SHOWING PINK
+ JEN'S PALACE
+ VIRGIN PUSSIES
+ ASIAN LESBOS
+ DANCING QUEENS
+ SEX HAPPY
+ BONUS PIC 1 -> http://stuffed.net/home/28577.htm
+ BONUS PIC 2 -> http://stuffed.net/home/22247.htm
+ BONUS PIC 3 -> http://stuffed.net/home/25191.htm
+ BONUS PIC 4 -> http://stuffed.net/home/6876.htm
+ BONUS PIC 5 -> http://stuffed.net/home/26272.htm
+ MUCH, MUCH MORE!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----

STUFFED HAS EVOLVED OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF MONTHS THANKS TO
ALL YOUR FEEDBACK.  NOW WE HAVE BOUGHT IN THOUSANDS MORE HI-
RES  PHOTOS FROM  TOP SEX  PHOTOGRAPHERS,  WE SCOUR  THE WEB
EACH DAY TO FIND LINKS TO SITES WITH  100S MORE FREE IMAGES,
AND THERE'S SO MUCH MORE,  SUCH AS THE FIVE EXTRA BONUS PICS
YOU GET  EVERY DAY NOW,  THAT YOU WON'T FIND  ON THE STUFFED
WEB SITE, THEY ARE EXCLUSIVE TO OUR SUBSCRIBERS! AND THERE'S
SO MUCH MORE TO COME, SO KEEP COMING BACK FOR MORE EACH DAY!

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: positzzzsu@mailexcite.com
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 21:11:50 -0700 (PDT)
To: positzzzsu@mailexcite.com
Subject: 725+ Search Engines
Message-ID: <199810070508.XAA18290@calli.matem.unam.mx>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


!!!LOWEST PRICE EVER!!!!!

REGULAR $89......ONE WEEK ONLY...$59        we10 tra

WE WILL SUBMIT YOUR WEBSITE OR HOMEPAGE TO 725+ SEARCH ENGINES
AND PROVIDE YOU WITH A REPORT SHOWING ALL SUCCESSFUL SUBMISSIONS!!

WORRY FREE INTERNET TRANSACTION---WE WILL SUBMIT YOUR SITE AND E-MAIL YOUR REPORT WITHIN 48 HOURS OF RECEIPT OF YOUR FAXED CHECK....WE WON'T EVEN DEPOSIT IT UNTIL YOUR SUBMISSION IS COMPLETE...IF WE DON'T DO AS WE SAY, YOU CAN ALWAYS STOP PAYMENT ON CHECK....NOW WE HAVE TO TRUST YOU, AS WE WILL HAVE COMPLETED THE WORK BEFORE YOUR BANK HAS EVEN HONERED YOUR CHECK!!!!

RESERVE YOUR SPOT NOW!!!  DO NOT RESERVE YOUR SPOT VIA E-MAIL, MUST BE FAX!!!

YOU CAN FAX US A CHECK TO RESERVE YOUR SPOT AND WE WILL IMPORT IT INTO
OUR CHECK PROCESSING SOFTWARE, NO NEED TO MAIL IT.

MAKE IT OUT TO K.L. COMPANY AND   FAX TO 714 768-3650 WITH THE FOLLOWING INFO

YOUR NAME:
COMPANY NAME:

URL OF SITE: http://

e-mail Address:

Title of site(up to 25 words)



Description of site(up to 50 words):





Keywords(up to 6)

Phone#


QUESTIONS?


ALL ORDERS WILL BE SUBMITTED WITHIN 48 HOURS....           

we10









From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: The Informant 
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 00:39:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: New information at the Informant
Message-ID: <199810070749.DAA09199@cosmo.dartmouth.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hello,

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
NOTE: We do NOT send unsolicited e-mail to anyone.  If you have been signed
up for our service against your will, PLEASE JUST REPLY TO THIS NOTE, saying
that you never signed up.  We will delete the account that is sending you mail
and do our best to identify the person who signed you up. (Our e-mail address
is info_adm@cosmo.dartmouth.edu; our URL is http://informant.dartmouth.edu/.)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Informant has discovered new information!

 32 new         WWW page(s)
  0 updated     WWW page(s)
  1 unreachable WWW page(s) (monitored pages only)

To see your pages, please come visit us at

  http://informant.dartmouth.edu

Remember that your username is

  cypherpunks

Power users can use the URL

  http://informant.dartmouth.edu/index.cgi?username=cypherpunks


If you did sign up with us, but are tired of receiving this e-mail, please 
visit the Web site and increase the number of days between updates, blank out 
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Your faithful servant,

The Informant




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: listmaster@extensis.com
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 05:41:21 -0700 (PDT)
To: undisclosed-recipients:;
Subject: Get GROOVY in Photoshop! - Extensis PhotoTools 3.0
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Get GROOVY in Photoshop! - Extensis PhotoTools 3.0

Announcing Extensis PhotoTools(tm) 3.0 

Now, create groovy, never-seen-before effects for the Web and print-with Extensis PhotoTools 3.0 
 http://www.extensis.com/products/PhotoTools

- NEW! PhotoGroove will create custom, never-seen-before bevel effects 
- NEW! PhotoTexture creates an infinite variety of seamless natural and synthetic textures
- NEW! PhotoAnimator automatically generates animated GIFs for the Web
- IMPROVED! PhotoCastShadow now displays shadows from multiple light sources
- IMPROVED! PhotoButton offers custom button shapes and textured surfaces

New PhotoTools 3.0 is a significant upgrade that offers the most versatile collection of real-world special effects for Web, print, and multimedia design. PhotoTools gives the highest quality effects for textures, glows, buttons, shadows, embosses, bevels, and GIF animations! 

Even better, access all of PhotoTools' features from the NEW Extensis menu-right in Photoshop-using the commands you already know.

There is only one thing for brilliant special effects-GET GROOVY! with Extensis PhotoTools 3.0.

To ORDER, download a FREE demo, or for more information, please visit: 
http://www.extensis.com/products/PhotoTools
Or call Extensis at (800) 796-9798 or (503) 274-2020.

Extensis PhotoTools is fully compatible with Adobe(r) Photoshop(r) 4 and 5 (Mac and Windows).

PS. We have made every effort to ensure this message is being sent only to people who have expressed interest in Extensis products.  If we have sent this to you in error, please accept our apologies and reply with "REMOVE" in the subject line for automatic exclusion from future communications.  If you know someone who would like to be on our mailing list have them send an email to listmaster@extensis.com with "ADD" in the subject line and their email address in the body.

P.P.S. This message is intended for North American customers.  If you are located outside of North America and have received this message, please visit  www.extensis.com/purchase/ to find the nearest local distributor in your country




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED WED OCT 7 
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 02:22:42 -0700 (PDT)
To: (OVER 100 FREE PICS DAILY!)
Subject: EVEN MORE FREE PORN: STUFFED HAS 10 LINKS TO 100S OF FREE PICS, NEW EVERY DAY
Message-ID: <19981007071000.25478.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


+ 30 SUPERB, HI-RES, HOT PHOTOS
+ 5 SUPER SEXY STORIES
+ ISLAND EROTICA
+ SEXY STUFF
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+ WHITE CHOCOLATE
+ LOVE THEATER
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+ SPEWY'S FREE ADULT PIX
+ MIA'S SEX DESIRE
+ BONUS PIC 1 -> http://stuffed.net/home/1361.htm
+ BONUS PIC 2 -> http://stuffed.net/home/5962.htm
+ BONUS PIC 3 -> http://stuffed.net/home/11162.htm
+ BONUS PIC 4 -> http://stuffed.net/home/6796.htm
+ BONUS PIC 5 -> http://stuffed.net/home/4249.htm
+ MUCH, MUCH MORE!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----

If you haven't visited STUFFED in the last few days,  you're
in for a real treat.  It's faster than  ever before and now,
as a subscriber,  you get 35 FREE new pics  every day,  plus
over 100 more at carefully selected FREE sites we link to.

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Postal008@hanmail.com
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 14:53:17 -0700 (PDT)
To: Recipients@globalwest.com
Subject: Special Delivery --->
Message-ID: <199810072028.XAA23962@mailhost.fornet.net.tr>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




You have just stumbled upon something very real and
LIFE CHANGING!

Work full or part time at your pace--at home or office.
NOT MLM or a 'SCAM'. Your job will be to tour your
prospects through the turnkey system utilizing strong
support teams and allow them to access and understand
the powerful opportunities available through this Association.
No Personal Selling!!

Complete training and team support is at your fingertips--
immediately!

$1,000.00 to $5,000.00 per week is typical for most
Associates within thirty days!

Turnkey leads are available!!
****************************************************************************************
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Over twenty thousands individuals, like-minded
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Your growth and progression within the Association
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If you are, we want to hear from you.

1 800 498 4753 (serious inquiries only )

To be removed from further mailings, put "remove me"
in the subject and forward to remove-me.com







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Ken Fowler" 
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 15:08:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Thank you for your interest in The Investment Exchange!
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



You have been referred to us as having a stake in raising capital or placing 
capital. If this is correct, we trust the information below will be valuable to you. 

If we have erred, please accept our apologies. You may simply type "REMOVE" 
in the "Subject Line" above, send the reply including your email address to us. 
We will ensure you receive no further correspondence from The Investment 
Exchange. 

Established in 1986, The Investment Exchange has computer-matched many 
millions of Investors' Capital to Investment Opportunities. We are not a business 
or mortgage broker, nor are we an investment dealer. What The Investment 
Exchange provides is a network for ingenuity and capital that, when combined, 
results in a successful match. It works! 

If this interests you, please visit The Investment Exchange website, 
http://www.tinvex.com . 

Once you have had an opportunity to review the material we have provided, please 
contact the undersigned with any questions or comments. You may 
mailto:info@tinvex.com . 

Thank you for your interest. We look forward to hearing from you. 

Sincerely,
The Investment Exchange
Ken Fowler, 
President 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Lose_Weight@postmark.net
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 20:53:07 -0700 (PDT)
To: Lose_Weight@postmark.net
Subject: I Lost 60LBS in 3 Months! CAN U ?
Message-ID: <199810080303.UAA23349@coast.fortbragg.k12.ca.us>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


*******New Scientific Discovery********
Go TO   http://www.geocities.com/RodeoDrive/Mall/9155/
Or Click  http://www.geocities.com/RodeoDrive/Mall/9155/ HERE

To Be REMOVED
Go TO http://www.geocities.com/RodeoDrive/Mall/9155/ to be removed
Or Click 
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 02:43:04 -0700 (PDT)
To: (OVER 100 FREE PICS DAILY!)
Subject: EVEN MORE FREE PORN: STUFFED HAS 10 LINKS TO 100S OF FREE PICS, NEW EVERY DAY
Message-ID: <19981008071000.12540.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


+ 30 SUPERB, HI-RES, HOT PHOTOS
+ 5 SUPER SEXY STORIES
+ ZEE ASS
+ FIRM BOOBS
+ GIMMIE PORN
+ DANGEROUSLY HOT FEMALES
+ ULTRA SEXXX 2000
+ ADULT PORN PICS
+ INTO THE NIGHT
+ XXXPOSE
+ SULTRY WOMEN
+ 1ST ALL AMERICAN GIRLS
+ BONUS PIC 1 -> http://stuffed.net/home/28742.htm
+ BONUS PIC 2 -> http://stuffed.net/home/17196.htm
+ BONUS PIC 3 -> http://stuffed.net/home/25298.htm
+ BONUS PIC 4 -> http://stuffed.net/home/21319.htm
+ BONUS PIC 5 -> http://stuffed.net/home/511.htm
+ MUCH, MUCH MORE!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----

If you haven't visited STUFFED in the last few days,  you're
in for a real treat.  It's faster than  ever before and now,
as a subscriber,  you get 35 FREE new pics  every day,  plus
over 100 more at carefully selected FREE sites we link to.

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: mrmail1241@qiakeysk.juno.com
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 06:32:34 -0800 (PST)
To: nice@vapjsbah.toad.com
Subject: I am Deeply Insulted                                                                                                                                                     -wqrqhxmm
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/html

Title: 






It has been some time since you have been back to our site. I have taken many 
new pictures of myself and think you might 
enjoy them as you  remember im a tall blond and my girlfriend is the redhead!

Click Here And Enter





























we thank you for all your business in the past!







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jeff Penrod  (by way of "Edwin E. Smith" )
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 20:06:58 -0700 (PDT)
To: edsmith@IntNet.net
Subject: Tea
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19981008225145.007b8df0@mailhost.IntNet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Tea in a Whole new Bag

by L. Neil Smith

More and more it seems that nothing can bring this country's politicos and 
bureaucrats back under control (to the extent they ever were) as the Founding 
Fathers intended. Bureaucrats are more anonymous and unreachable every year: 
no matter how incensed we get -- or how many of us get that way -- 
politicians reelect themselves like clockwork. 

Though it's all the rage among those concerned with such matters, I've never 
been satisfied that term limitation won't achieve the opposite of what's 
intended, removing a final curb on runaway do-goodery and social 
experimentation. With respect to recent passage of what's supposed to be the 
28th Amendment, the most naive American today knows more than James Madison 
did of the way politicians fix things to suit themselves. They'll override 
ratification, agree to vote raises for their successors, or simply make their 
mercenary move early in their terms, in the comforting knowledge that voters 
will have forgotten what they did by Election Day. 

It should be clear now that the imposition of Bill Clinton on the productive 
class -- by 43% of the electorate -- has only made things worse. In an age 
where half the average person's income already goes to taxes of one kind or 
another and the other half for goods and services with prices doubled by 
taxation and doubled again by regulation -- and where bureaucrats represent a 
greater threat to life, liberty, and property than politicians -- what's 
needed is something more certain than term limitation and harder to get
around 
than Madison's schedule for congressional pay hikes. 

Allow me to introduce the "Taxpayers' Equity Amendment": 

1. No elected or appointed official at any level of government may receive 
more in total salary, benefits, and expenses during his term of office -- or 
for 5 years afterward -- than his average productive-sector constituent; 
individuals, and employees of companies deriving more than 10% of their 
revenue from government will be excluded for purposes of calculating the 
average. 

2. Those subject to the Taxpayers' Equity Amendment will be required to 
participate in the Social Security system for as long as it continues to 
exist; all outside income (from a business, inheritance, investments, a 
spouse's wealth, speaking fees -- to name only a few examples) will be 
"invested in America" by being placed in randomly-selected savings and loan 
institutions until the 5-year period expires. 

3. Those subject to the Taxpayers' Equity Amendment will be required to file 
weekly income/expenditure forms for scrutiny by the IRS, the media, and the 
public; telephone hotlines and lavish rewards for "whistle-blowers" will be 
provided; all salary and benefits of officials under suspicion of having 
violated the Taxpayers' Equity Amendment will be suspended pending the
results 
of any investigation. 

4. Violations of the Taxpayers' Equity Amendment will result in summary 
removal of that official, loss of salary, benefits, expenses -- along with
all 
deposited monies -- and no fewer than 25 years in that federal maximum 
security prison currently deemed most violent; introducing, sponsoring, or 
voting for legislation meant to evade the Taxpayers' Equity Amendment, or to 
falsify the statistical base on which calculations are made, will be treated 
as violations. 

The primary goals of the Taxpayers' Equity Amendment are: 

(A) to punish politicians and bureaucrats for past, present, and future 
crimes against the lives, liberties, and property of "We the People of the 
United States", 

(B) to make sure their fortunes rise and fall with ours -- so they're forced 
to scrape along by day by day like the rest of us, one paycheck away from 
bankruptcy -- and, 

(C) to give them something better to do with their time than to continually 
threaten, at our expense, our fundamental rights and well-being. 

It'll also save taxpayers around $300 billion a year. 

The Taxpayers' Equity Amendment can begin working now, before it ever passes 
into law (even if it never does), if it's circulated widely via computer 
bulletin board networks and other means, appears frequently in magazine and 
newspaper letter columns, and if it's sent to all your favorite office
holders. 

Have fun. 






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED FRI OCT 9 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 01:49:25 -0700 (PDT)
To: (OVER 100 FREE PICS DAILY!)
Subject: EVEN MORE FREE PORN: STUFFED HAS 10 LINKS TO 100S OF FREE PICS, NEW EVERY DAY
Message-ID: <19981009071000.4999.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


+ 30 SUPERB, HI-RES, HOT PHOTOS
+ 5 SUPER SEXY STORIES
+ HARDCORE SEX WITH ZOOM
+ XXX FEMALES
+ HARDCORE IMAGES
+ FREE PORN SITE
+ THE PUSSY FARM
+ RACHEL'S UNIVERSE
+ HOIHOI GIRLS
+ BRAND X
+ NATURAL BODIES
+ XBABES
+ BONUS PIC 1 -> http://stuffed.net/home/23356.htm
+ BONUS PIC 2 -> http://stuffed.net/home/28430.htm
+ BONUS PIC 3 -> http://stuffed.net/home/6666.htm
+ BONUS PIC 4 -> http://stuffed.net/home/3074.htm
+ BONUS PIC 5 -> http://stuffed.net/home/29541.htm
+ MUCH, MUCH MORE!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----

If you haven't visited STUFFED in the last few days,  you're
in for a real treat.  It's faster than  ever before and now,
as a subscriber,  you get 35 FREE new pics  every day,  plus
over 100 more at carefully selected FREE sites we link to.

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Marita Näsman-Repo 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 09:18:56 -0700 (PDT)
To: F-Secure-Press-Global@DataFellows.com
Subject: MEDIA RELEASE: DATA FELLOWS SHIPS F-SECURE FILECRYPTO
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19981009182133.00996100@smtp.datafellows.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Data Fellows Ltd.		Media Release
PL 24	  	
FIN-02231 ESPOO 		FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Tel. +358 9 859 900
Fax. +358 9 8599 0599
http://www.DataFellows.com
Crypto-Sales@DataFellows.com 

DATA FELLOWS SHIPS F-SECURE FILECRYPTO 

New Product Provides On-the-Fly Protection For Sensitive Data on Personal
Computers

HELSINKI, FINLAND, October 9, 1998  -- Data Fellows, a leading developer of
data security software has started to ship F-Secure FileCrypto. The new
product provides strong, on-the-fly encryption for confidential data in the
Microsoft Windows NT 4.0 environment. 

"F-Secure FileCrypto is the only file encryption product on the market
designed for companies with thousands of PCs," says Mr. Camillo Sars,
Product Development Manager, Data Fellows. "The protection of confidential
files has never been this easy. F-Secure FileCrypto is installed over the
entire network, and automatically encrypts all files, including temporary
files created by programs and the operating system during running. The
process is completely transparent to end-users, requiring no action from
them at all." 

The administrator can define a security policy for all installed copies of
F-Secure FileCrypto. F-Secure FileCrypto will have a full support for
centralized policy-based management later this fall.

The program also features a key retrieval function. If a user forgets the
password that allows access to encrypted files, the Administrative Key
Recovery function manages the situation safely and easily.

According to Mr. Sars, "F-Secure FileCrypto is one of the first products to
integrate strong real-time encryption into the Windows file system. It
automatically encrypts data before it gets stored on the hard disk,
protecting sensitive information even in the most demanding situations. If
a PC is improperly turned off, or if a laptop computer's batteries go dead,
any open or temporary files will be encrypted and safe."

F-Secure FileCrypto also has a feature which allows users to send encrypted
e-mail to other users. Encrypted e-mail can be decrypted with a password.

F-Secure FileCrypto uses well-known fast block cipher algorithms. Either
the three-key 3DES or the Blowfish algorithm can be selected. Both
algorithms have been analyzed by the world's leading cryptographers and are
known to be strong and safe.

"Files protected by F-Secure FileCrypto are not accessible to computer
freaks, hackers, or even cryptography experts. Each file is encrypted with
a random session key. Breaking a single key would give someone access to
only one file, and the job would consume trillions of years of computer
time," says Mr. Sars.

F-Secure FileCrypto for Windows NT 4.0 is now available from the Data
Fellows resellers around the world. Central installation and management
features will be implemented in the next release of the product. F-Secure
FileCrypto for Windows 95/98 will be available next year.

About Data Fellows

Data Fellows is one of the world's leading developers of data security
software. The company's groundbreaking F-Secure products provide a unique
combination of globally available strong encryption and revolutionary
anti-virus software. The integrated F-Secure software family provides
complete security solutions for enterprises of any size. It includes file
encryption and IPsec communication encryption products, VPN gateways,
SSH-based secure remote management software, easy-to-use solutions for
distributed DNS management, and a full range of anti-virus products for
workstations, servers and gateways. Data Fellows is also the developer of
the award-winning F-PROT Professional anti-virus product, the scanning
engine which is now an integral part of the multiple engine structure of
F-Secure Anti-Virus.   

Data Fellows' head offices are in San Jose, California, and Helsinki,
Finland. In addition, its offices, partners and VARs offer worldwide
technical support, training and distribution from over 80 countries. Since
the company was founded in 1988, its annual net sales growth has
consistently been nearly 100%. Data Fellows belongs to an elite group of
companies with a triple-A rating from Dun&Bradstreet. The company is
privately owned.  

For further information, please contact

USA:
Data Fellows Inc.
Mr. Pirkka Palomäki, Product Manager
Tel. +1 408 938 6700, fax  +1 408 938 6701E-mail:
Pirkka.Palomaki@DataFellows.com

Finland:
Data Fellows Ltd.
Mr. Tom Helenius, Product Marketing Manager
Tel.  +358 9 859 900, Fax. +358 9 8599 0599
E-Mail: Tom.Helenius@DataFellows.com
Visit our web site at http://www.DataFellows.com
--
Marita.Nasman-Repo@DataFellows.com, 
World-Wide Web http://www.DataFellows.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "GartnerGroup" 
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 16:37:09 -0700 (PDT)
To: "GartnerGroup Interactive Registered User" 
Subject: Free Keynote Webcasts from Symposium/ITxpo 98!
Message-ID: <199810092337.QAA05866@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


************************************************************************
GartnerGroup periodically sends e-mail updates to registered users of
GartnerGroup Interactive about specially available research, upcoming
conferences and announcements.  If you received this message, you
registered on GartnerGroup Interactive (http://www.gartner.com).

To unsubscribe from all future e-mail updates, send an e-mail to:
unsubscribe.updates@gartner.com with the word "unsubscribe" in the
subject line.
************************************************************************


In this e-mail:
1)  Symposium/ITxpo Online -- free keynote webcasts from Orlando
2)  GartnerGroup analyst presentation webcasts
3)  Symposium/ITxpo 98 - Europe, Japan and Australia still to come


1) Symposium/ITxpo Online - Free keynote webcasts from Symposium/ITxpo
------------------------------------------------------------------------
At Symposium/ITxpo 98, in Orlando, Florida October 12-16, the largest,
most strategic event in the industry, the greatest minds in Information
Technology come together to cure confusion about IT issues and clarify
the vision of the future.

GartnerGroup is bringing Symposium/ITxpo to the Internet.  Mark your
calendar and visit Symposium/ITxpo Online at
http://www.gartner.com/symposium between October 12 and 16, 1998.

As a registered user of GartnerGroup Interactive, we are providing
special notice to you of the valuable information that will be
available for free on GartnerGroup Interactive including:

     Keynote interview webcasts
     Select analyst presentation webcasts
     Daily conference highlights
     ITxpo Online - the virtual tradeshow
     Product Education Sessions from leading vendors
     Breaking news and announcements
     Special analysis of hot IT topics & trends

The keynote presentations feature GartnerGroup analysts interviewing
industry leaders such as Bill Gates, Larry Ellison and John Chambers.
They will be presented live and on-demand on GartnerGroup Interactive,
using video webcasting technology (viewed with the Windows Media
Player or RealPlayer).  For a complete schedule of the dates and times
visit http://www.gartner.com/symposium


2)  GartnerGroup analyst presentation webcasts
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Select GartnerGroup analyst presentations will be made available free
from Symposium/ITxpo Online.  These presentations combine audio
webcasting technology and the analyst slide presentations.  (Windows
Media Player or Real Player with the slides in .pdf format)

Free session highlights:
     Developing an E-Business Strategy
     Networking Vendor Evaluations:  A Magic Quadrant Compendium
     Collaboration and Groupware Applications
     Network and Systems Management:  Risk vs. Reward

Visit http://www.gartner.com/symposium for the complete list of free
GartnerGroup analyst session webcasts.  In addition to the free
webcasts, over 215 GartnerGroup analyst sessions from Symposium/ITxpo
in Orlando are available for purchase individually or in packages.


3) Symposium/ITxpo 98 -- Europe, Japan and Australia still to come!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Symposium/ITxpo will take place in other locations as well:

Tokyo, Japan		21-23 October, 1998
Brisbane, Australia	28-30 October, 1998
Cannes, France		2-5 November, 1998

To find out more or to register for Symposium/ITxpo 98 in your corner
of the world, visit http://www.gartner.com/symposium

GartnerGroup's Symposium/ITxpo 98 promises to be the best ever.  Visit
GartnerGroup Interactive starting October 12, 1998 and get front row
seats to the event at Symposium/ITxpo Online!





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED SAT OCT 10 
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 01:14:44 -0700 (PDT)
To: (OVER 100 FREE PICS DAILY!)
Subject: EVEN MORE FREE PORN: STUFFED HAS 10 LINKS TO 100S OF FREE PICS, NEW EVERY DAY
Message-ID: <19981010071000.27258.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


+ 30 SUPERB, HI-RES, HOT PHOTOS
+ 5 SUPER SEXY STORIES
+ DAARIA'S DEVILISH DYKES
+ NUTS N HONEY
+ HOIHOI GIRLS
+ SIBERIAN DAWGY DAWG
+ LAND O LEZ
+ A SEXY GIRL
+ FREE XXX SMUT
+ DEBBIE'S SEX SITE
+ WHORES INC
+ ALL THAT ASS
+ BONUS PIC 1 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/17970.htm
+ BONUS PIC 2 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/6896.htm
+ BONUS PIC 3 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/20802.htm
+ BONUS PIC 4 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/17597.htm
+ BONUS PIC 5 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/25803.htm
+ MUCH, MUCH MORE!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----

If you haven't visited STUFFED in the last few days,  you're
in for a real treat.  It's faster than  ever before and now,
as a subscriber,  you get 35 FREE new pics  every day,  plus
over 100 more at carefully selected FREE sites we link to.

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: regnic902c@gte.net
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 23:13:08 -0700 (PDT)
To: liprenic2x3@gte.net
Subject: A BANNER PROGRAM PAYING $50 A SIGNUP
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


$50 PER SIGNUP - NO KIDDING!
PAID WEEKLY IF YOU WISH!

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: stock-pick@stock-pick.net
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 15:01:26 -0700 (PDT)
To: user@the.internet
Subject: AD: Stock-Pick Discovers Media Goldmine!!
Message-ID: <199810110145.VAA11990@mars.your-mail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


This message is sent in compliance of the new e-mail bill: SECTION 301, 
Paragraph (a)(2)(C) of s. 1618

Sender : Stock-Pick, P.O. Box 130544, St Paul, MN  55113
Phone  : 1-612-646-8174
E-mail : stock-pick@stock-pick.net

To be removed from our mailing list, simply reply with "REMOVE" in the 
subject.

Visit http://www.stock-pick.net for full details.

Financial Highlights: Triangle Broadcasting, Inc. (OTC BB : GAAY)

Shares Outstanding (Aug 31, 1998) : 19.4 Million Shares
Current Market Capitalization (Current Stock Price of $0.05) - $970,000
Stockholders' Equity (June 30, 1998) - $2,233,470 - Equity per Share : $0.115

At current stock price of $0.05 we feel this stock to be tremendous BUY 
at these levels.  Currently there are 19.4 million shares outstanding, 
this gives a market capitalization of only $970,000 - a modest 
investment could yield enormous rewards for the investors who entered on 
the ground floor.  At current price levels $1000 would purchase 20,000
shares.

"Mark Twain said: "The secret to success is - find out where the people 
are going and get there first".  We feel that Triangle Broadcasting, Inc. 
(OTC BB : GAAY) has followed that adage to a T.	 

Triangle Broadcasting Company, Inc. (OTC BB : GAAY) is launching itself 
to a right future.  They are the first mass media company  to target gays 
and lesbians on a national level.   Successful companies always take one 
step at a time so that they never skip over something important that will 
haunt them in the future.  First, Triangle Broadcasting Company, Inc. did 
extensive surveys.  They found out what were the people's preferences.  
They also figured out what would be the most strategic way to market their 
product and what programs would be received well by both the gay and 
lesbian communities and the mass market.  They set up their programming 
and found what cities they should target first.  Triangle Broadcasting 
Company, Inc. is going to start in 15 cities.  They have chosen 15 cities 
with large gay and lesbian populations.  After they have gained acceptance 
in these markets, they will expand to a national level.  They can already 
be received by over 10,000 stations in the United States and Canada.  
Triangle Broadcasting Company, Inc. will not expand until they have made 
a presence in the markets that they are focusing on. 

Triangle Broadcast Company, Inc. hand-picked it's management 
infrastructure.  They took broadcast executives who had extensive 
knowledge about the industry.  Gay and lesbian nightclub owners were 
brought in to help formulate the programming.  Business advisors help 
with the complexities of running a business.  And last but not least real 
estate people help with the planning of which communities would be their 
first targets.

After all this was set up they contacted advertising executives of major 
companies throughout the United States and Canada.   The response was 
overwhelming.  With all the above factors, and the fact that advertisers 
are already lining up, success is almost inevitable.  This is truly an 
amazing company with nothing but positive opportunities in front of it.

Once again visit http://www.stock-pick.net for full details.

****** DISCLAIMER ******

This material is being provided by Stock-Pick, a paid public relations 
company, and is for informational purposes only and is not to be 
construed as an offer or solicitation of an offer to sell or buy any 
security. Stock-Pick is an independent electronic publication providing 
both information and factual analysis on selected companies that in the 
opinion of Stock-Pick have investment potential. Companies featured by 
Stock-Pick or company affiliates pay consideration to Stock-Pick for the 
electronic dissemination of company information. Triangle Broadcasting 
Company, Inc. has paid a consideration of 100,000 common shares of 
Triangle Broadcasting Company, Inc. stock to Stock-Pick in conjunction 
with this company profile. All statements and expressions are the opinion 
of Stock-Pick. Stock-Pick is not a registered investment advisor or a 
broker dealer. While it is our goal to locate and research equity 
investments in micro or small capitalization companies that have the 
potential for long-term appreciation, investment in the companies reviewed
are considered to be high risk and may result in loss of some or all of 
the investment. The information that Stock-Pick relies on is generally 
provided by the featured companies and also may include information from 
outside sources and interviews conducted by Stock-Pick. While Stock-Pick 
believes all sources of the information to be reliable, Stock-Pick makes 
no representation or warranty as to the accuracy of the information 
provided.  Investors should not rely solely on the information contained 
in this publication. Rather, investors should use the information 
contained in this publication as a starting point for doing additional 
independent research on the featured companies in order to allow the 
investor to form his or her own opinion regarding investing in featured 
companies. This publication contains forward looking statements that are 
subject to risk and uncertainties that could cause results to differ 
materially from those set forth in the forward-looking statements. These 
forward-looking statements represent Triangle Broadcasting Inc., judgement 
as of the date of this release. The company disclaims any intent or 
obligation to update these forward-looking statements. Factual statements 
in this publication are made as of the date stated and are subject to 
change without notice. 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: tony@starsnstripes.com
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 17:15:01 -0700 (PDT)
To: you@starsnstripes.com
Subject: Dental / Optical Plan 2 bucks a week
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


                   The Dental-Optical Plan
                                      .
           We work with a group of your local doctors
     and dentists and are offering a Dental - Optical Plan
     that runs approximately $2 a week for an individual
    and $3 a week for the entire family with no limit to the
                          number of children!
                                      .
  Would you like our office to furnish you with the details?
                                      .
 Our doctors are grouped by AREA CODE and ZIP CODE
     The company currently only responds to requests by
                             TELEPHONE.

For Details call Toll Free 1-800-447-1996  
Please Refer to ID Code 900



This message complies with the proposed United States Federal requirements 
for commercial email plus Washington State Commercial Email Bill. for information 
see: http://www.senate.gov/~murkowski/commercialemail/ EMailAmend Text.html  

To be removed   mailto:remove@unlimitd.com?subject=remove



Sean Davis
790 W.40 Hwy ste.336
Blue Springs MO 64015
1-800-447-1996






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED SUN OCT 11 
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 01:13:35 -0700 (PDT)
To: (OVER 100 FREE PICS DAILY!)
Subject: EVEN MORE FREE PORN: STUFFED HAS 10 LINKS TO 100S OF FREE PICS, NEW EVERY DAY
Message-ID: <19981011071000.1373.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


+ 30 SUPERB, HI-RES, HOT PHOTOS
+ 5 SUPER SEXY STORIES
+ AMANDA'S FANTASY
+ MISSIONARY MADNESS
+ BABES & BLOWJOBS
+ GALLERIES OF PORN
+ CUMSHOT QUEENS
+ BLOW BABY BLOW
+ FIRM BOOBS
+ PORN PRINCE
+ COLLEGE SEX
+ SLUTTYONES.COM
+ BONUS PIC 1 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/12584.htm
+ BONUS PIC 2 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/18130.htm
+ BONUS PIC 3 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/2170.htm
+ BONUS PIC 4 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/32120.htm
+ BONUS PIC 5 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/22064.htm
+ MUCH, MUCH MORE!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----

If you haven't visited STUFFED in the last few days,  you're
in for a real treat.  It's faster than  ever before and now,
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This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
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instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: submitsoft@premiumproducts.com
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 17:16:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: your classifieds.
Message-ID: <199810120016.RAA24176@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



4 WAYS TO MAKE MONEY WITH MY TWO NEW SOFTWARES!
       (LIMITED OFFER: GET BOTH FOR $30. SAVE $50 ! ACT TODAY!)
           --------------------------------------------------
My following 2 new software programs will make you money in 4 ways!
They will even do the selling for you! They are the new & affordable

        1)  100 CLASSIFIEDS '98  AD SUBMITTING SOFTWARE
            -------------------------------------------
Type in your ad, and the software will automatically submit it to
the top 100 internet free classifieds! Save time and effort!

        2)  GLOBAL CLASSIFIED '98  AD SUBMITTING SOFTWARE
            ---------------------------------------------
Same as above software, except it submits to the top international
trade free classified sites! Different from the above 100 sites!

     HERE ARE THE 4 WAYS THE TWO SOFTWARES WILL MAKE YOU MONEY:
    -----------------------------------------------------------

A)START AN AD SUBMISSION SERVICE:
 Use the 2 softwares to advertise your new service. Charge $10/ad !

B)SELL THE SOFTWARES & MAKE MONEY, WITH ZERO INVESTMENT:
 Again, use the softwares to advertise their own sale! Charge $40
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C)SPONSOR OTHER RESELLERS AND MAKE MONEY OFF THEIR SALES:
 Again, use the softwares to locate resellers all over the globe.
 Get 20% on these resellers' sales!

D)PROMOTE YOUR OWN PRODUCTS & SERVICES:
 Again, use the softwares to locate buyers and distributors all
 over the world for your products and services! If you do not
 have any product or service to offer, we shall give you a FREE
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Use the 2 softwares to place free ads over , and over, and over!
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postage anywhere in the world! This is a limited offer! ACT TODAY!
-------------------------------------------------------------------
            ORDER  FORM                          Ref:D.B.10/10
            ===========

Please PRINT the Order Form, TYPE the information, & ENCLOSE payment:
...US$30 (for the 100 Classifieds 98 & Global Classifieds softwares)
...FREE  (250-Reports Disk if you order the softwares within 48hrs)
I enclose a total of US$.... in... cash,...check,... or Money Order. 
Checks(on US banks only) take 10 days to clear.Mail all to my address. 

To order with Credit Card:fill, sign & mail (or fax to (561) 792-6175):
======================================================================
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US$.......covering my above order! Master Card or Visa only accepted.
Credit Card #.........................................Expiry:........
Signature:.................................

NAME:.........................................................
ADDRESS:......................................................
        ......................................................
CITY:..............STATE:..................ZIP:...............
COUNTRY:................

Al Jebaly
3668  161st Terrace North
Loxahatchee, Florida 33470
USA
(The above is an INTRODUCTORY offer for the above NEW AUTOMATIC
softwares! You save $50!Offer is limited & sales are final!Act now!)
--------------------------------------------------------------
Your name was given to me as someone interested in a home biz.
If this message was sent in error, please forgive me! If you
want your name to be removed, hit REPLY, type Remove, & SEND. (10/10)
--------------------------------------------------------------
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: info@sparky.clearworks.net
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 01:24:16 -0700 (PDT)
To: info@sparky.clearworks.net
Subject: What does IBM know about ClearWorks that you don't?
Message-ID: <68645747_49581639>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Undiscovered Internet Stock (CLWK OTC:BB).

What does IBM know about this company that  you don't?

Follow this link for more information on ClearWorks:

http://www.clearworks.net/news_menu_frame.htm








DISCLAIMER OF WARRANTIES AND LIABILITY

Due to the number of sources from which news and information on the Service is obtained, and the inherent hazards of electronic distribution, there may be delays, omissions or inaccuracies in such news, information and the Service.  Direct Communications Corporation AND ITS AFFILIATES, AGENTS AND LICENSORS CANNOT AND DO NOT WARRANT THE ACCURACY, COMPLETENESS, CORRECTNESS, NONINFRINGEMENT, MERCHANTABILITY OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE OF THE INFORMATION AVAILABLE THROUGH THE SERVICE, OR THE SERVICE ITSELF. NEITHER Direct Communications Corparation NOR ANY OF ITS AFFILIATES, AGENTS OR LICENSORS SHALL
BE LIABLE TO YOU OR ANYONE ELSE FOR ANY LOSS OR INJURY CAUSED IN WHOLE OR PART BY ITS NEGLIGENCE OR CONTINGENCIES BEYOND ITS CONTROL IN PROCURING, COMPILING,
INTERPRETING, REPORTING OR DELIVERING THE SERVICE AND ANY NEWS AND INFORMATION
THROUGH THE SERVICE. ALL SUCH DOCUMENTS AND RELATED GRAPHICS ARE PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OFANY KIND. Direct Communications Corporation AND/OR ITS RESPECTIVE SUPPLIERS HEREBY DISCLAIM ALL WARRANTIES AND CONDITIONS WITH REGARD TO THIS INFORMATION, INCLUDING ALL IMPLIED WARRANTIES AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, TITLE AND NON-INFRINGEMENT.

THE STOCK CHOICES LISTED IN THIS EMAIL MAY BE CONSIDERED BY SOME INVESTMENT
ADVISORS AS HIGH RISK. COMPANY BACKGROUND PROFILES AT THE WEBSITE STATED IN THE EMAIL AND IN ANY EMAILED NEWSLETTERS DO NOT CONSTITUTE AN OFFER TO SELL OR SOLICITATION OF AN OFFER TO PURCHASE ANY SECURITIES. STATEMENTS IN THESE PROFILES MAY CONTAIN CERTAIN FORWARD-LOOKING STATEMENTS WITHIN THE MEANING OF SECTION 27A OF THE SECURITIES ACT OF 1933, SECTION 21E OF THE EXCHANGE ACT OF 1934, AND THE PRIVATE SECURITIES LITIGATION REFORM ACT OF 1995, SUBJECT TO THE SAFE HARBOUR CREATED BY THESE SECTIONS. ACTUAL RESULTS MAY DIFFER MATERIALLY FROM THE PROFILED COMPANY'S EXPECTATIONS. CERTAIN FACTORS COULD RESULT IN FUTURE EVENTS AND PERFORMANCE DIFFERING MATERIALLY FROM THESE STATEMENTS. THESE FACTORS INCLUDE, BUT ARE NOT LIMITED TO, SECURING CAPITAL ON A TIMELY BASIS; ENTERING INTO CONTRACTS WITH PROSPECTIVE CUSTOMERS; RETENTION OF KEY PERSONNEL AND CONSULTANTS, INCLUDING THOSE INVOLVED IN TECHNICAL EFFORTS; AND CHANGES IN TECHNOLOGY. SECURITIES DISCUSSED HERE MAY NOT HAVE BEEN REGIST!
ERED WITH
THE UNITED STATES SECURITIES AND EXCHANGE COMMISSION BECAUSE THEY ARE BELIEVED TO  BE EXEMPT FROM REGISTRATION UNDER SECTION 4(2) OF THE SECURITIES ACT OF 1933 AND/OR RULE 504 PROMULGATED BY THE SECURITIES AND EXCHANGE COMMISSION AS PART OF REGULATION D. WHILE EFFORTS ARE MADE TO SELECT THE BEST PERFORMING STOCKS, TRADERS MUST BE AWARE THAT MARKETS CAN BE HIGHLY VOLATILE AND UNPREDICTABLE. THE SELECTIONS ARE INTENDED FOR TRADERS AND INVESTORS WHO PLAN TO EMPLOY SPECULATIVE CAPITAL ONLY. OFFICERS AND/OR EMPLOYEES OF Direct Communications Corporation MAY INEVITABLY, FROM TIME TO TIME, HOLD POSITIONS IN THE STOCKS DISCUSSED. HOWEVER, STRICT ETHICAL PROCEDURES ARE IN PLACE TO LIMIT ADVANCE KNOWLEDGE AMOUNG STAFF SO THAT NO POSITION TRADES ARE MADE IN THE WEEKS BEFORE OR AFTER MENTION ON THIS EMAIL. Direct Communications Corporation is paid 5,000 Shares of Clearworks common stock with options for another 5,000 shares baesd on performance plus $3,000 expenses.  IN NO EVENT WILL Dire!
ct Communications Corporation., ITS AFFILIATES, AGENTS OR LICENSORS BE LIABLE TO YOU OR ANYONE ELSE FOR ANY DECISION MADE OR ACTION TAKEN BY YOU IN RELIANCE ON SUCH CHOICES, NEWS, OR INFORMATION OR FOR ANY CONSEQUENTIAL, SPECIAL OR SIMILAR DAMAGES,
EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES. YOU AGREE THAT THE LIABILITY OF Direct Communication Corporation., ITS AFFILIATES, AGENTS AND LICENSORS, IF ANY, ARISING OUT OF ANY KIND OF LEGAL CLAIM (WHETHER IN CONTRACT, TORT OR OTHERWISE) IN ANY WAY CONNECTED WITH THE SERVICE OR THE NEWS AND INFORMATION.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ginadi@topchat.com
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1998 23:06:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Hello from Miami,
Message-ID: <199810120606.XAA26042@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Want to have your own successful internet business? 
Be your own boss? 
This is an exciting new money-making opportunity 
that can bring you the income you've been looking for!

 Contact us and learn about one 
 of the MOST SUCCESSFUL BUSINESSES 
 to run on the internet today:
 
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       Help Singles around the World!!!      


 Meet people * Have fun * Make money * Travel
          Work part time or full time.
 We provide all the necessary software and support.
Send for info to: ginadi@topchat.com

Sincerely,
Gina Di'Lombartti

Matchmaker International
  Milano - Branch
  14 Via Galvani
  20124 Milano
  ITALIA

tel: 39- (02) 69-837, when busy please e-mail me.
 
 
 
 
 
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED MON OCT 12 
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 02:07:43 -0700 (PDT)
To: (OVER 100 FREE PICS DAILY!)
Subject: EVEN MORE FREE PORN: STUFFED HAS 10 LINKS TO 100S OF FREE PICS, NEW EVERY DAY
Message-ID: <19981012071001.10152.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


+ 30 SUPERB, HI-RES, HOT PHOTOS
+ 5 SUPER SEXY STORIES
+ YVONNE'S ASIAN GIRLS
+ SHADOW X
+ INSTANT BONER
+ FREE SLEEZE
+ MISS TEASE FREE XXX PLAYHOUSE
+ NAKED BLONDES
+ EROTIC VIXENS
+ AMY'S XXX HARDDRIVE
+ PORN FUN'S BABES
+ A HOLE LOTTA LESBIANS
+ BONUS PIC 1 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/7198.htm
+ BONUS PIC 2 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/29364.htm
+ BONUS PIC 3 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/16306.htm
+ BONUS PIC 4 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/13875.htm
+ BONUS PIC 5 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/18326.htm
+ MUCH, MUCH MORE!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----

If you haven't visited STUFFED in the last few days,  you're
in for a real treat.  It's faster than  ever before and now,
as a subscriber,  you get 35 FREE new pics  every day,  plus
over 100 more at carefully selected FREE sites we link to.

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: regnic902c@gte.net
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 00:39:47 -0700 (PDT)
To: zapperlin80c@gte.net
Subject: Do not renew my membership
Message-ID: <9810120738.AA00162@mars.cableol.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I want to cancel my membership.  Please do not renew
my membership to your site. Cancel me now.

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Do it now or you'll get more cancellations.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: aimkt@aimarketinginc.com
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 17:10:07 -0700 (PDT)
To: aimkt@aimarketinginc.com
Subject: Better than Viagra-Ask Mark McGwire
Message-ID: <199810130010.RAA03074@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



************************************************************************
Removal Instructions can be found at the bottom of this page
 
************************************************************************
                      Announcing

                 ***LIBIDO PLUS***



LIBIDO PLUS already includes the most talked about and most effective BODY REBUILDING ingredient in America today. That key ingredient is ANDROSTENEDIONE. The same powerful ingredient that St. Louis Cardinals baseball player MARK McGWIRE has been using as a PERFORMANCE ENHANCER and BODY REBUILDER. Doing so has helped him to better endure the physical demands of the extensive major league baseball season and in the process he was able to establish a new all time major league home run record.


          THIS MAKES LIBIDO PLUS



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************************************************************************
This Message is intended for the Health Conscious Individual. If
we have reached you by mistake please accept our apologies. If you wish
to be deleted from our database, please reply with the subject "R emove"

************************************************************************
 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: wllstrtmore@digisys.net
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 02:14:41 -0700 (PDT)
To: silver3112@aol.com
Subject: RE:  INTERNET STOCKWATCH!   I S M R
Message-ID: <156874589632.GAA10987@smtp.207.115.225.192>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Company:  Internet Stock Market Resources
Symbol:   I S M R
Price:    2  1/4  ($2.25/share)

" I S M R is evolving into one of the internet's  main
financial web portals not unlike E*Trade in its 
future potential."

As a featured stock in both Success and Opportunist 
magazines and as a content partner with Time Warner's
Web TV   I S M R is rated a "VERY STRONG BUY".

For more information on I S M R go to:
http://quote.yahoo.com/



  
 
 
 plxII7.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: listmaster@extensis.com
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 01:08:16 -0700 (PDT)
To: undisclosed-recipients:;
Subject: Quark-to-HTML ---- Extensis BeyondPress
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


BeyondPress 4.0 
The Award-winning Quark-to-HTML XTension from Extensis
http://www.extensis.com/BeyondPress/buyonline


- Convert QuarkXPress to HTML or DHTML with one click
- New! Includes Extensis PhotoAnimator for creating animated GIFs 
- Compatible with QuarkXPress 3.31, 4.0 (Mac), & 4.0 (Win)
- NOW Available for WINDOWS!
 

Extensis BeyondPress 4.0-our award-winning XTension that takes your QuarkXPress documents to the web-is now available for Windows, with advanced DHTML features!

Extensis BeyondPress allows you to repurpose your existing QuarkXPress documents for the Web.  BeyondPress preserves the layout of your documents using HTML tables or DHTML for cutting-edge design. 

Quickly create animated GIFs with Extensis PhotoAnimator, a new addition to the BeyondPress line-up.  Once created, simply drag the animation into your layout and see it displayed LIVE inside QuarkXPress.  

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P.P.S. This message is intended for North American customers.  If you are located outside of North America and have received this message, please visit  www.extensis.com/purchase/ to find the nearest local distributor in your country.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED TUE OCT 13 
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 02:17:53 -0700 (PDT)
To: (OVER 100 FREE PICS DAILY!)
Subject: EVEN MORE FREE PORN: STUFFED HAS 10 LINKS TO 100S OF FREE PICS, NEW EVERY DAY
Message-ID: <19981013071001.11864.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


+ 30 SUPERB, HI-RES, HOT PHOTOS
+ 5 SUPER SEXY STORIES
+ XXX VAGINAS
+ FOR FREE SEX
+ JEN'S PALACE
+ HENTAI BIJUTU
+ VALERIE'S GIRLS
+ EUROPEAN WOMEN
+ TALENT SEARCH
+ CUM COVERED FACES
+ BLOWJOB HEAVEN
+ PORNFEEDS
+ BONUS PIC 1 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/1812.htm
+ BONUS PIC 2 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/7830.htm
+ BONUS PIC 3 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/30442.htm
+ BONUS PIC 4 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/28398.htm
+ BONUS PIC 5 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/14588.htm
+ MUCH, MUCH MORE!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----

If you haven't visited STUFFED in the last few days,  you're
in for a real treat.  It's faster than  ever before and now,
as a subscriber,  you get 35 FREE new pics  every day,  plus
over 100 more at carefully selected FREE sites we link to.

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Walter Burton 
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 05:06:17 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: _PI_ was crap, but...
Message-ID: <013D438ED22ED2119F630060082F763C08A760@kenny.pipestream.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


It did inspire me to consider an interesting line of thought:

Maybe pi is the cyphertext and the 216-digit "Holy Unspeakable Name of
God" is the Vegenere-ish key.

I'll get to work and see if I can crack the message by lunchtime.


\\/alter




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Walter Burton 
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 06:53:46 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: _PI_ was crap, but...
Message-ID: <013D438ED22ED2119F630060082F763C08A783@kenny.pipestream.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

It did inspire me to consider an interesting line of thought:

Maybe pi is the cyphertext and the 216-digit "Holy Unspeakable Name of
God" is the Vegenere-ish key.

I'll get to work and see if I can crack the message by lunchtime.


\\/alter
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 6.0 for non-commercial use 
Comment: For my public key, send a msg with "public key" in the subj.

iQA/AwUBNiNatI0Llo1Bf1gWEQLIfACguQpfpZLC3cT0Iw/vj/ncDlHWcPIAn3W5
ZoMzjfYNl4sD+J2sqhtZ6fwU
=GZcu
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: aimkt@aimarketinginc.com
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 15:43:46 -0700 (PDT)
To: aimkt@aimarketinginc.com
Subject: Better than Viagra-Ask Mark McGwire
Message-ID: <199810132243.PAA12748@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



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************************************************************************
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: news@quake.connectfree.net
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 08:44:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199810131545.QAA03849@swampthing.connectfree.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Connect FREE Newsletter October 98


Welcome to Connect Free, and thank you for joining our service. We hope you
find our Second Newsletter informative. September's Newsletter can be
viewed on our web site at the bottom of the FREE Internet page.


FreeServe & Dixons

Now we all know that Free Internet access is going to be the norm very
shortly and users of the Internet like yourselves would like to have
several connections to the Internet from different ISP's and of course you
will choose the service that offers the best performance.

With the launch of Dixons Freeserve service some of our users have taken
the decision to have a second account - great idea.

If you decide to use this service alongside your Connect FREE account
please do not use the CD install that Dixons provide - if you do, then you
may just find that your Connect FREE account will no longer work. It is
possible to configure the Freeserve system manually and then you will be
able to use any
account on your system without problem.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Future Developments

In November, Connect FREE will be able to offer an even better service
because we will have 1Gig of Internet bandwidth for fast access to the
Internet and thousands of modems and lines ensuring that you get a
guaranteed first time connection every time.

We will be spending one million pounds on new equipment, for example new
modem racks, routers and servers. This new equipment will be housed at
Telehouse, London, the main exchange for all UK Internet traffic.

Connect FREE is aiming to be not only the first Internet Service Provider
to offer FREE Internet access in the UK but also to be the Best.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

POP3 & SMTP Mail

During November Connect FREE is going to be offering all it's customers
FREE unlimited POP3 e-mail addresses and unlimited aliases to each e-mail
account.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Free Web Space

During December we plan to offer all our Connect FREE customers, FREE web
space.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Proxy Server

Connect FREE does not have a Proxy Server. If you find that you can connect
to the Connect FREE service but you cannot view any web pages the
likelihood is that you have the Proxy Server setting *Ticked* in your browser
configuration. This can happen if you put another Internet Service
Providers software onto your PC and the automatic configuration will enable
this setting.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

News Server

The automatic news configuration routine on our website does not work for
everybody. If you have problems using this facility then we suggest you
set-up News manually using something like Outlook Express. Our News Server
address is:  news.connectfree.net

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Change of Details

If you need to change your personal details i.e. email address etc, then
you will soon be able to do this via a web page on the Connect FREE website.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Information Line

If you do need to contact Connect FREE by phone or email please ensure that
you provide your LoginID & Password with every communication.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Improvements

Connect FREE would like to hear from you, if there is any way in which you
think we could improve our service to you, or add more content to the
Connect FREE website.

It is Connect FREE policy not to send unwanted rubbish by e-mail or junk
advertising by any other means. All we ask is that you receive our monthly
newsletter informing you of any changes to the service and any new service
that may come available which you may benefit from.

Contact us at info@connectfree.net or Telephone 0702 115 2525


No Catches, No Gimmicks, Just Connect FREE




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Edwin E. Smith" 
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 16:05:53 -0700 (PDT)
To: edsmith@IntNet.net
Subject: Between the Lines
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19981013181653.007e7a80@mailhost.IntNet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Between the Lines

Joseph Farah

Disarm the BATF 
                   

                   Another day, another debacle for the Bureau of
                   Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms. 

                   This time, the scene is not Waco, Texas, or Ruby Ridge,
                   Idaho, but Taft, California -- another hotbed of
                   "anti-government activity." 

                   According to the federal government's own account, the
                   BATF began an investigation into illegal firearms sales
                   by people espousing anti-government rhetoric three or
                   four years ago with an undercover agent allegedly
                   making an illegal purchase of a .22-caliber pistol. 

                   It ended last week with one of the three targets of the
                   federal government probe dead in a highly unusual --
                   and, yes, improbable -- incident. 

                   The official story goes something like this: Two BATF
                   agents, a Kern County sheriff's deputy and Sgt. Ed
                   Whiting of the Taft Police Department attempted to
                   take into custody on illegal firearms trafficking charges,
                   Darryl Howell, a 45-year-old grandfather and owner of
                   a surplus store that sold, among other things, guns and
                   ammunition. 

                   A struggle between the BATF agents and Howell
                   ensued. The cops say he broke away from them, lunged
                   for a .45-caliber handgun, put it into his mouth and fired
                   a single shot. Whiting, the story goes, had become
                   temporarily distracted during the scuffle. When he
                   heard the single shot, he instinctively aimed his gun at
                   Howell and fired three more shots into his already,
                   presumably, lifeless body. 

                   Now, if you believe that, I have an intercontinental
                   ballistic missile I'd like to sell you. 

                   I'm not a cop, and I've never played one on TV. But I
                   have reported on enough crime stories in my day to
                   know when one stinks to high heaven. And this one
                   smells like a cattle ranch on a windless, summer day in
                   California's Central Valley. 

                   Let me see if I have this straight. Four cops, one
                   "suspect." This wanted outlaw -- so dangerous he's
                   been under scrutiny of federal law enforcement for
                   nearly four years -- is confronted not in his home, not on
                   his lunch break, not on his way to work or after he locks
                   up, but during the workday in a store loaded with
                   firearms. Even though he's not accused of being on
                   PCP or any other drugs, he cannot be physically
                   subdued by four officers. They are unable to persuade
                   him to come along peacefully or handcuff him
                   involuntarily. Instead, he is permitted by these highly
                   trained law enforcement professionals to grab one of his
                   guns. But they don't shoot him right away. Oh no. They
                   allow him to pick up the handgun, bring it all the way up
                   to his mouth and pull the trigger. Only then, we are told,
                   does one of the officers, who wasn't paying attention,
                   pump the desperado full of lead. 

                   Do these BATF clowns ever learn? Either these guys
                   are Washington's answer to the Keystone Kops, or we
                   have on the loose a cold, calculating, professional,
                   Gestapo-like killing machine designed to root out
                   dissidents exercising their Second Amendment rights
                   and blow them away without the messiness of trials and
                   due process. 

                   How many times does America need to see such
                   tragedies before it wakes up and disarms these
                   dangerous, out-of-control, gun-slinging hitmen? The
                   inmates are running the asylum, folks. Beam me up. 

                   There is no allegation made by any of these cowboys
                   that Howell or any others charged in a series of raids in
                   the town of Taft last week had provided weapons to
                   criminals or represented a threat to law-abiding citizens
                   anywhere. In fact, I personally would have felt a lot
                   safer in Taft last week, before Mr. Howell was
                   "suicided" than I would today. I think most Americans
                   would. 

                   Let's suspend our own cognitive skills and good
                   judgment for a moment and pretend the cops' story is
                   100 percent accurate. Was the four-year investigation
                   worth it? Was it a prudent investment of taxpayer
                   dollars? Why aren't these law-enforcement heroes out
                   investigating real crimes of violence against innocent
                   victims, instead of conducting secretive sting operations
                   designed to entrap people into violating inherently
                   unconstitutional laws? 

                   But, you know what? Such talk can get you in trouble
                   these days. One of the BATF agents responsible for
                   this tragedy said one of Howell's friends had (gasp!)
                   complained about a ban on "assault weapons" and the
                   actions of President Clinton, Attorney General Janet
                   Reno and U.S. Sen. Dianne Feinstein. 

                   At the risk of inviting a similar assault on my home or
                   business, let me pick up that cry: These are, indeed,
                   some of the people who represent a real threat to our
                   lives and liberty in America t




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED WED OCT 14 
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 02:28:26 -0700 (PDT)
To: (OVER 100 FREE PICS DAILY!)
Subject: EVEN MORE FREE PORN: STUFFED HAS 10 LINKS TO 100S OF FREE PICS, NEW EVERY DAY
Message-ID: <19981014071001.24820.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----

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This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
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       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: lar@compwebtech.com
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 18:54:12 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: Advertisment for $ 99 WEB HOSTING
Message-ID: <199810150154.SAA25202@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Check it out! 25 megs for only $99 per year with no set up fees. 
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Larry@compwebtech.com
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: stockadvisory79658ddlw@gte.net
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 23:00:36 -0700 (PDT)
To: internet@aol.com
Subject: RE:  INTERNET STOCKWATCH!   I S M R
Message-ID: <196532478451.GAA74558@relay18.gte.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Company:  Internet Stock Market Resources
Symbol:   I S M R
Price:    2  1/4  ($2.25/share)

" I S M R is evolving into one of the internet's  main
financial web portals not unlike E*Trade in its 
future potential."

As a featured stock in both Success and Opportunist 
magazines and as a content partner with Time Warner's
Web TV   I S M R is rated a "VERY STRONG BUY".

For more information on I S M R go to:
http://quicken.excite.com/investments/quotes



  
 
 
 plxII7.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: picc98@wowmail.com
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 16:31:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: POWER & MAGIC OF E-MAIL!!!
Message-ID: <199810142331.QAA24092@cygint.cygnus.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/html



Mail Your Message to MILLIONS!  through 
the POWER & MAGIC OF E-MAIL!!!
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 		Use Bulk email - IT WORKS, !!! 
............a well-written, strategically targeted E-MAIL MESSAGE, fulfilling an identified need, can and will make you money on the Internet, even on a limited budget,  as long as you GET IT IN FRONT A NUMBER OF PEOPLE. 
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GREETING CARDS		            GAMBLING		GAMES			GUNS		
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HUMOR			HUNTING		HOME			
INTERNET RELATED	INVESTMENTS		MEDIA	
LISTS			MAGAZINES		MEDICAL		MEDICINE
MISCELLANEOUS	MODELS		MOVIES		
MONEY			MLM			MUSIC			NEWS	
NEWSLINKS		OFFICE			PENS		                PERSONAL DEVELOPMENT
PERFORMING		PONIES			PHOTOGRAPHY		POLITICAL 
PROFESSIONALS		PLANTS
PSYCHOLOGY		PUBLISHING		REAL ESTATE		RELIGION
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SEASONAL ITEMS                TELEMARKETING		TECHNOLOGY
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WEATHER		WEB DESIGN
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: steelin@hotmail.com
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 04:29:06 -0700 (PDT)
To: steelin@hotmail.com
Subject: The guitar video everybodies talking about
Message-ID: <199810141123.TAA20021@public.qd.sd.cn>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


___________________________________________________________
Howdy!
     Just wanted to drop you a note to let you about my
Video "Steelin' from the Steel",. If your anything like me, 
your always looking for something new that will help you spice up
your playing and phrasing without too much effort, make you 
a better player...This is the video for you!!!! This video easily
fills up your" bag of licks" with phrases that will make you a much
more creative musician, than by learning a bunch of penatonic
blues scales which have been taught into the ground.
   This video is by far the most interesting guitar instruction available.
I sat down in the studio with one of the greatest L.A. tele players
around. I'm on pedal steel and I proceeded to play all the interesting 
sounds on the steel guitar and Mike on tele plays them EXACT
and explains how to play them. The sounds coming off his 
guitar and the new ideas that can come from these chord
bends will open up some serious musical doors for you.
We go through bends, fills, intros and licks galore...
    For the beginer to advanced player, very easy concepts to
pick up and use in any style of music. It's nice to know
you can easily become a much more creative musician
with just a little effort and "Steelin' from the Steel."
    If your interested just click the link below and it will take you to 
my page offering the Video...I appreciate your time and till we
meet out on the road....Gotta keep pickin'....Kevin
http://www.clublickit.com/video3.htm 
   





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 11471..201@compusub.com
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 21:06:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Thank you for your inquiry
Message-ID: <199810150406.VAA26023@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


This is your free issue of the Global Media and Corporate Relations
newsletter. In order to continue to receive the GMCR News you must reserve
your place in our news server by one of the methods below. If this
newsletter has reached your mailbox in error, do nothing and you will
receive no further contact.

Visit http://www.corporaterelations.com and sign in to reserve your place
in our news server.
			or
Email to gmcr-list@corporaterelations.com ; include the words 'join
gmcr-news' in the body of the message.
 
GLOBAL MEDIA AND CORPORATE RELATIONS NEWS

GMCR is dedicated to bringing you the most timely critical investment
information about new issues, IPO's, small cap stocks and special
opportunities that simply cannot be found elsewhere. All of the investment
opportunities presented here are thoroughly screened by our experienced
team of investment professionals. Each of our client companies has
undergone a stringent due diligence process to insure that the investment
potential is a bona fide GMCR opportunity.

One Asian Tiger Roars as the Others Roll Over and Play Dead

For the first half of 1998, U.S. electronics exports to Asia dropped 12% in
the face of various economic crises and currency devaluations in the
Pacific Rim that saw country economies falling like dominos. The culprits:
Indonesian imports down 64%, Korean down 37%, Thai down 26%, and Japanese
imports down 14%. So how did the U.S. semiconductor manufacturers fair
overall? Total semiconductor sales worldwide were only down .38% because
Eastern Europe, Mexico, Canada and China increased their purchases at the
expense of their Asian counterparts. China, one of the Asian Tigers,
escaped the crisis conditions unscathed, actually increasing their imports
of U.S. semiconductor products by 50% during the first half of this year
according to industry sources.

China's tight control over its currency allowed it to escape the problems
that slashed fifty cents on the dollar out of the other Asian Tiger
currencies. While the other countries worried about currency devaluations
and layoffs in industry, China quietly ramped up production in their three
"golden" markets: telecommunication, consumer electronics and home
appliances grabbing market share along the way. 

FEATURED COMPANY

Our feature company this month is Micronics International, Inc (OTC:BB
MCIK). Micronics International (MCIK) has been undervalued with the recent
Asian crisis driving stocks lower. Timing is right for Micronics
International (MCIK) to rocket upward propelled by a burgeoning Chinese
semiconductor market.

Their current mission is to take advantage of the large Chinese government
incentives to moev electronic manufacturing from the coast to the interior
of the country. Micronics is locating their new offices in the heart of
these new centers of industry. The company will be perfectly positioned for
a buy-out or merger with a larger U.S. semiconductor distributor looking
for an established marketing channel into China, soon to be the worlds'
biggest market for semiconductor products.
 
Micronics (MCIK) is the Second Largest U.S. Distributor of semiconductors
into the Chinese telecommunications, consumer electronics and home
appliance manufacturing sectors. The company has established both close
relationships with the government and permanent offices within their
borders. The Chinese must import 94% of integrated circuit needs and their
buying has INCREASED 50% during the Asian Crisis!

Micronics (MCIK) is rocketing upward because:

* The 1998 Chinese import market for chips? Over six billion units.
* First half of 1998 showed a 50% increase in U.S. semiconductor imports
into China, 10% higher than was predicted by industry insiders.
* Industry forecasts for semiconductor sales: $120 billion 2005, $550
billion 2010, World's largest market by 2015.
* A $50 billion plus semiconductor market in China is projected to grow at
a 40% rate the next seven years! 
* The semiconductor market has grown steadily, 25% per year, for the last
ten years in lockstep with increased U.S. imports into China! 

* Over 60 years of combined semiconductor marketing experience among the
Micronics officers.
* Micronics has excellent government and local factory contacts in China
through a professional sales force.
* The low cost provider to the market through strategic purchases of key
stocks.
* Long term relationships with U.S. proprietary chip manufacturers and
smaller U.S. distributors focusing on telecommunications, computers and
energy conservation, Micronics' key markets.
* The U.S. semiconductor companies have a solid 10% of the China market
* Very few American distributors are willing and able to crack the China
distribution market. The only competitor of note is Arrow Electronics who
does approximately $120 million in sales a year in China.
* Many U.S. companies want in China, Micronics is positioned as a possible
acquisition or marketing channel.
 








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED THU OCT 15 
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 03:29:42 -0700 (PDT)
To: (OVER 100 FREE PICS DAILY!)
Subject: EVEN MORE FREE PORN: STUFFED HAS 10 LINKS TO 100S OF FREE PICS, NEW EVERY DAY
Message-ID: <19981015071000.22006.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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+ MUCH, MUCH MORE!

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in for a real treat.  It's faster than  ever before and now,
as a subscriber,  you get 35 FREE new pics  every day,  plus
over 100 more at carefully selected FREE sites we link to.

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Richard.Bragg@ssa.co.uk
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 06:48:13 -0700 (PDT)
To: leif@imho.net
Subject: Re: Use encryption to foil spooks' data harvesting, says US statedept
Message-ID: <8025669E.004B0866.01@seunt002e.ssa.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


and how about some innocuous words/phases that might cause apoplexy

i talk to the pillow (PLO) every night

i was there doing ... with ..., i wish.   was dead on his feet
....

it goes on.

I like the encryption bit.  Season your conversations with encryption and
they won't find the wood for the trees.  Who actually needs encryption in
this case.  Everyone can just put the word encryption into every
conversation every other sentence.
Miles of recording tape, (bytes of memory, whatever) just stuffed with
inane conversation with a few select phrases.






leif@imho.net on 15/10/98 14:20:26

To:   Richard Bragg/UK/SSA_EUROPE
cc:
Subject:  Re: Use encryption to foil spooks' data harvesting, says US
      statedept




GOOD that did not bounce... Over the last few days my imho mail
bounced..  mostly from some DNS, and mail server problems since I made
some changes... (at my office who is at this point my mail hub... hehe
it is fun to be the SA)

OK words or phrases that can be used.
Death
Kill Destroy
ENCRYPTION
President
Vice President
First Lady
Bomb
dead
maim
hate if used correctly
missile ( I am sure it is in the list if used correctly )
Nerve gas
lets see should I go on or do you have the idea..
Here is a hint...  I was talking with a friend one day a computer geek
himself and we mentioned the word encryption and started talking about
said stuff...  Well after that word was aid we here a clicking type
noise in the background??? HUMMMMMMMMM  we change the subject and after
some time talking it goes away we say encryption and it came back....

HUMMMMMMMM

               Go figure.
               - lhe









From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED FRI OCT 16 
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 01:51:32 -0700 (PDT)
To: (OVER 100 FREE PICS DAILY!)
Subject: EVEN MORE FREE PORN: STUFFED HAS 10 LINKS TO 100S OF FREE PICS, NEW EVERY DAY
Message-ID: <19981016071000.4883.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


+ 30 SUPERB, HI-RES, HOT PHOTOS
+ 5 SUPER SEXY STORIES
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+ CUCHI
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+ BONUS PIC 1 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/18421.htm
+ BONUS PIC 2 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/8764.htm
+ BONUS PIC 3 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/7314.htm
+ BONUS PIC 4 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/6430.htm
+ BONUS PIC 5 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/3373.htm
+ MUCH, MUCH MORE!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----

If you haven't visited STUFFED in the last few days,  you're
in for a real treat.  It's faster than  ever before and now,
as a subscriber,  you get 35 FREE new pics  every day,  plus
over 100 more at carefully selected FREE sites we link to.

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: lewisantonio@usa.net
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 07:30:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: ATTENTION HOMEOWNER***FREE SERVICE***FREE SOFTWARE
Message-ID: <199810161430.HAA29794@cygint.cygnus.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Aladdin Systems 
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 18:47:03 -0700 (PDT)
To: ALADDIN-WIN@LISTSERVER.DIGITALRIVER.COM
Subject: Ooops, didn't save?  FlashBack!
Message-ID: <018001bdf966$08fd99a0$75d2d1d0@c-kosel.digitalriver.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


*********************************************************************

You are currently a member of the Aladdin Information mailing
list. Your email address was submitted at the Aladdin web site
indicating that you wished to receive information pertaining to
Aladdin products. If you would like to be removed from this list
please refer to the instructions found at the bottom of this email.

*********************************************************************

Dear Valued Aladdin Customer,

It's not often that a whole new kind of software gets discovered.
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Use Aladdin FlashBack and discover the power of virtually unlimited
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That's right, FlashBack recovers not only lost or damaged files, but
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"FlashBack makes saving and tracking files easy, and makes crashes
less painful by reducing the chances of your data getting permanently
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FlashBack tracks only the documents you want, and works with any
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of $9.95, and give your data the kind of protection you've always
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=====================================================================
If you would prefer not to receive our news and special offers
in the future do NOT reply to this message, instead:
   1. mailto:listserv@listserver.digitalriver.com
   2. Put "UNSUBSCRIBE ALADDIN-WIN" (without quotes) in the
      FIRST LINE of the message BODY
=====================================================================

Sincerely,

Jonathan Kahn
Founder & President
Aladdin Systems




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 95959742@mailcity.com
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 00:50:06 -0700 (PDT)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: Accept Credit Cards Online!!!
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


INCREASE SALES UP TO 100%
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To be Removed send and email to merchant89@mailcity.com







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: DizzyG1616@aol.com
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 22:22:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Do you gamble, or want to know how?!
Message-ID: <70d5743c.362821a6@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

 


To: DizzyG1616@aol.com
Subject: Do you gamble, or want to know how?!
From: DizzyG1616@aol.com
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 00:44:01 EDT

Do you gamble, or
want to know how?! CLICK HERE! 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED SAT OCT 17 
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 05:24:31 -0700 (PDT)
To: (OVER 100 FREE PICS DAILY!)
Subject: EVEN MORE FREE PORN: STUFFED HAS 10 LINKS TO 100S OF FREE PICS, NEW EVERY DAY
Message-ID: <19981017071000.11812.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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+ 5 SUPER SEXY STORIES
+ SATAN'S CIRCUS
+ SIMPLY STUNNING
+ EURO SLUTS
+ ZEE ASS
+ NAUGHTY LADY
+ CAILEY'S PRECIOUS PIX
+ ANAL CLIMAX
+ MATURE WOMEN
+ MAD PUSSY
+ ALL DAY PUSSY PARTY
+ BONUS PIC 1 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/13035.htm
+ BONUS PIC 2 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/19998.htm
+ BONUS PIC 3 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/21450.htm
+ BONUS PIC 4 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/20953.htm
+ BONUS PIC 5 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/32403.htm
+ MUCH, MUCH MORE!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----

If you haven't visited STUFFED in the last few days,  you're
in for a real treat.  It's faster than  ever before and now,
as a subscriber,  you get 35 FREE new pics  every day,  plus
over 100 more at carefully selected FREE sites we link to.

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 23:11:15 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: More on Postel
Message-ID: <36298670.B1A@att.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Subject: IP: Remembrance/postel
From: Dave Farber [farber@cis.upenn.edu]

I, and others I fear, have spent a sleepless night after hearing of the
death of Jon Postel last night. This morning there was a  note in my
mail box from Vint Cerf that said many of the things I feel at this
time. I asked him for permission to send on which he granted.

I also remember Jon. I was his primary thesis advisor along with Jerry
Estrin and I remember with fond memories the months spent closely
working with Jon while his eager mind developed the ideas in back of
what was a pioneering thesis that founded the area of protocol
verification.  Since I was at UC Irvine and Jon at UCLA we used to meet
in the morning prior to my ride to UCI at a Pancake House in Santa
Monica for breakfast and the hard work of developing a thesis. I gained
a great respect for Jon then and 10 pounds of weight.

I will miss him greatly. Jon was my second Ph.D. student. The first,
Philip Merlin, also died way before his time.

Dave

________________________________________________________________________

 October 17, 1998

I REMEMBER IANA

Vint Cerf

A long time ago, in a network, far far away, a great adventure took
place...

Out of the chaos of new ideas for communication, the experiments, the
tentative designs, and crucible of testing, there emerged a cornucopia
of networks. Beginning with the ARPANET, an endless stream of networks
evolved, and ultimately were interlinked to become the Internet. Someone
had to keep track of all the protocols, the identifiers, networks and
addresses and ultimately the names of all the things in the networked
universe. And someone had to keep track of all the information that
erupted with volcanic force from the intensity of the debates and
discussions and endless invention that has continued unabated for 30
years. That someone was Jonathan B. Postel, our Internet Assigned
Numbers Authority, friend, engineer, confidant, leader, icon, and now,
first of the giants to depart from our midst.

Jon, our beloved IANA, is gone. Even as I write these words I cannot
quite grasp this stark fact. We had almost lost him once before in 1991.
Surely we knew he was at risk as are we all. But he had been our rock,
the foundation on which our every web search and email was built, always
there to mediate the random dispute, to remind us when our documentation
did not do justice to its subject, to make difficult decisions with
apparent ease, and to consult when careful consideration was needed. We
will survive our loss and we will remember. He has left a monumental
legacy for all Internauts to contemplate. Steadfast service for decades,
moving when others seemed paralyzed, always finding the right course in
a complex minefield of technical and sometimes political obstacles.

Jon and I went to the same high school, Van Nuys High, in the San
Fernando Valley north of Los Angeles. But we were in different classes
and I really didn't know him then. Our real meeting came at UCLA when we
became a part of a group of graduate students working for Prof. Leonard
Kleinrock on the ARPANET project. Steve Crocker was another of the Van
Nuys crowd who was part of the team and led the development of the first
host-host protocols for the ARPANET. When Steve invented the idea of the
Request for Comments series, Jon became the instant editor. When we
needed to keep track of all the hosts and protocol identifiers, Jon
volunteered to be the Numbers Czar and later the IANA once the Internet
was in place. 

Jon was a founding member of the Internet Architecture Board and served
continuously from its founding to the present. He was the FIRST
individual member of the Internet Society I know, because he and Steve
Wolff raced to see who could fill out the application forms and make
payment first and Jon won. He served as a trustee of the Internet
Society. He was the custodian of the .US domain, a founder of the Los
Nettos Internet service, and, by the way, managed the networking
research division of USC Information Sciences Institute.

Jon loved the outdoors. I know he used to enjoy backpacking in the high
Sierras around Yosemite. Bearded and sandaled, Jon was our resident
hippie-patriarch at UCLA. He was a private person but fully capable of
engaging photon torpedoes and going to battle stations in a good
engineering argument. And he could be stubborn beyond all expectation.
He could have outwaited the Sphinx in a staring contest, I think.

Jon inspired loyalty and steadfast devotion among his friends and his
colleagues. For me, he personified the words "selfless service." For
nearly 30 years, Jon has served us all, taken little in return, indeed
sometimes receiving abuse when he should have received our deepest
appreciation. It was particularly gratifying at the last Internet
Society meeting in Geneva to see Jon receive the Silver Medal of the
International Telecommunications Union. It is an award generally
reserved for Heads of State but I can think of no one more deserving of
global recognition for his contributions. 

While it seems almost impossible to avoid feeling an enormous sense of
loss, as if a yawning gap in our networked universe had opened up and
swallowed our friend, I must tell you that I am comforted as I
contemplate what Jon has wrought. He leaves a legacy of edited documents
that tell our collective Internet story, including not only the
technical but also the poetic and whimsical as well. He completed the
incorporation of a successor to his service as IANA and leaves a lasting
legacy of service to the community in that role. His memory is rich and
vibrant and will not fade from our collective consciousness. "What would
Jon have done?" we will think, as we wrestle in the days ahead with the
problems Jon kept so well tamed for so many years. 

There will almost surely be many memorials to Jon's monumental service
to the Internet Community. As current chairman of the Internet Society,
I pledge to establish an award in Jon's name to recognize long-standing
service to the community, the Jonathan B. Postel Service Award, which is
awarded to Jon posthumously as its first recipient.

If Jon were here, I am sure he would urge us not to mourn his passing
but to celebrate his life and his contributions. He would remind us that
there is still much work to be done and that we now have the
responsibility and the opportunity to do our part. I doubt that anyone
could possibly duplicate his record, but it stands as a measure of one
man's astonishing contribution to a community he knew and loved.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED SUN OCT 18 
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 03:22:46 -0700 (PDT)
To: (OVER 100 FREE PICS DAILY!)
Subject: EVEN MORE FREE PORN: STUFFED HAS 10 LINKS TO 100S OF FREE PICS, NEW EVERY DAY
Message-ID: <19981018071001.15053.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


+ 30 SUPERB, HI-RES, HOT PHOTOS
+ 5 SUPER SEXY STORIES
+ DISCO XXX
+ FREE GIRL SEX
+ NAKED N NASTY
+ GENERATION PORN
+ VIRTUAL EXTACY
+ TALENT SEARCH
+ ADRIA'S FRIENDS
+ STIFF ONE EYE
+ SWEET ASIAN PUSSY
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 04:36:31 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: 2nd Report on Political Control Technologies
Message-ID: <199810181136.HAA08061@camel7.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Forward:

Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 11:26:38 +0200
To: jya@pipeline.com
From: Marie-Jose Klaver 
Subject: Second report An Appraisal of Technologies of Political Control

I'm a Dutch journalist, working for NRC Handelsblad, one of the major
newspapers in the Netherlands. I've been reporting about the STOA 
report An Appraisal of Technologies of Political Control since last 
February.

A second report came out last month. I got a copy a few days ago from 
the Omega Foundation and had an article about it in NRC Handelsblad 
today. This second report has interesting information about the so called 
EU-FBI global surveillance plan. According to a secret memorandum 
the EU countries have agreed with the FBI to intercept all European 
datacommunication. To do this some EU countries like Holland and 
Germany changed their laws to make broad wiretapping and 
interception of Internet and other datacommunication possible. 
Germany changed its constitution in the beginning of this year and in 
Holland a law was made and accepted by both chambers of the
Parliament that obliges all firms with computer and communication 
networks (providers, telco's, newspapers etc.) to make their systems 
tappable. 

You can read the second report at:

   http://www.nrc.nl/W2/Lab/Echelon/stoa2sept1998.html  [104K]


Marie-Jose Klaver

NRC Handelsblad

http://www.nrc.nl/W2/Lab/Echelon 

----------

There's much new information in the report, especially on
the US export of political control technologies which 
complements Amnesty International's recent critique of 
US violations of human rights, as well as the US Bureau 
of Prisons reorganization, all to accommodate the rise in
domestic and foreign freedom fighters, oops, terrorists,
as global Justice and Defense agencies characterize 
naysayers to bloated organs of dysfunctional cracies.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ventas@miller.com.mx
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 07:03:50 -0700 (PDT)
To: ventas@miller.com.mx
Subject: >>ˇDinero con Traducciones!<<
Message-ID: <19981018143140759.AAS234@miller.com.mx>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: co84772@yahoo.com
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 13:44:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: your web site
Message-ID: <199810212041.NAA12066@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Jean-Francois Avon" 
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 10:19:36 -0700 (PDT)
To: "jf_avon@citenet.net>
Subject: IMPORTANT!  Fwd: Social Engineering & C68
Message-ID: <199810181718.NAA22024@cti06.citenet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Hi!

My name is Jean-Francois Avon.

Almost all of you who will read this message know me personnally.

I forward this message to you for I believe that it is of *great*
importance.  The message discuss things that *will* affect your life in one
way or another. PLEASE take the time to read it.

The implications of what is discussed in this document will affect
*everybody*.

PLEASE!  DO READ IT COMPLETELY!

Jean-Francois Avon


==================BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE==================
>Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 10:37:30 -0700
>From: Dan MacInnis 
>Reply-To: dan.louise@sympatico.ca
>To: cdn-firearms-digest@broadway.sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca
>CC: mkhughe@north.nsis.com, jf_avon@citenet.net
>Subject: Social Engineering & C68

Let me begin by commenting I know this is not a 'chat' digest, but the
question was raised here about Quebec/Maritime involvement if fighting
C68 [the new firearms registration bill].  To be fair, there is quite a bit
of work being done by individuals, but government is mute down there, and
for ecomonic reasons, must be.

The reluctance or simply because the populance had no personal arms of
men and women to fight back when their wives, children, possessions etc.
were  being taken away is however, as in Nazi Germany and Kosovo today,
is, I suggest, a major plank in Social Engineering of a Society.

>From this point I will probably be branded as a "radical'.  So be it.  I
am educated in Engineering and Philosophy, the former teaches system and
the latter teaches thinking on, I would argue, another scale.

The new so called 'Global' economy will, and already has, caused major
social upheaval.  People who were middle class a few short years ago are
now on the streets or almost there due to the relocaction of work to
countries with a lower wage scale. Mexico, India, two of which I have
first hand knowledge, the wages are less than %10 of North American
rates.

Workers and management both were'are being 'let go', out of a source of
income.  The stock market was inundated with large sums of cash, the
source was the money paid to let go people, their severance package.
Hence, the inflated price of shares, which the market is just now
correcting, to the detriment of retirement payouts from Mutual Fund to
these laid off workers.  Their future is bleak, to put it mildly.
Farmers must be, by international trade laws, cut off from government
support and assistannce, to give an example, hog and milk subsidies.
So they face a bleak future in Canada.  Quebec fought hard for Free
Trade, until the dairy and hog farmers read the fine print.  Now we had
a milk strike, annd as I write, the hog farmers in Quebec are raising
Hale.

Jean Francois Avon wrote in response to my earlier diatribe on
Jews/Kosovians(I hope he copied this Digest) that Quebec Separatists
would be afraid of an armed populace.  I suggest he is correct.
So too are the federal and eastern Canadian provincial governments
afraid of guns in the hands of civilians.  They see them as weapons
which could be used against them and the establishment as the economy
changes and more and more middle class people, farmers, fishermen and
former managers reach the lower ranks of income and living conditions.

In Canada, we rank social standing by job/income/education to do a job.
We rated fur trappers at the bottom, because it payed poorly and
required little formal education to perform.

Tie in to Bill C68?  Well, Allan Rock let the cat out of the bag. When
he was briefed after becoming Minister of Justice, it was explained to
him that the program to disarm civilians began when Free Trade/Global
Economy talks were in their early stages, was running behind shedule.
In his jubulance, determined to 'get the job done', where Mulroney had
slowed down after an aggressive start, he blurted out the program on
live TV. 'Only police and the military should have guns'.

In the opinion of the various goverments, including Quebec, Ottawa and
some provinces, the program must be complete, and must be completed
soon.  Farmers, as they lose their farms to financial institutions,
fishermen, as they lose thier boats, certain interests in Quebec as they
lose everything due to separation, may fight back.  It is therefore
critical that they do not have access to arms, as a means of defence or
aggression.

The War Measures act is gone, replaced.  A legal means had to be
manufactured to remove guns from the people.  Hence, C68 is a good
beginning.  It allows confiscation of any firearms so deemed by the
incumbent government later on.  No, my friends, Ottawa is not stupid,
this is a well thought out plan, and appears to be working, as they use
mass media on the population, to change public opinion to their side,
i.e., guns are dangerous especially to women and children.  In fact,
firearms in the hands of civilians are dangerous, but to repressive
governments from a displaced populace.  As more and more Canadians find
everything they worked for threatened, some MIGHT fight back, and shoot
the Bailiff's from the Banks and the police sent to protect them when
they re-possess their property and throw them, literally, on the
streets, on into their relatives homes.

Registration? Use of the harsh Criminal Code, jail, for
non-compliance??  Necessary, in Ottawa's view.  Get the job begun
earlier finished, then they can go on the the greater plan, more relaxed
when people have no means of defence or rebellion.
When you live on the streets, there is no place to hide a gun.  Not to
sound trite, but this will test 'unsafe storage' laws to the limit.

If the Supreme Court judges have been properly briefed on the Social
Engineering aspects of C68, we do not have a chance in Hell in the
courts. Then, we will have a search and seizure, after 2003, to actively
find and confiscate unregistered and illegal (by now) guns on farms, in
houses, examples made in the Press of a few, and the game is over.

Is this gloom and doom from me, or a realistic analysis of the
situation?  You decide, but at least think about it from a broader angle
than simply telling Ottawa how many, the serial number and storage place
of your firearms today.

We need only to look at the history of Scotland to see Quebec today and
the ROC tomorrow.  And C68 plays a huge role in this.



===================END FORWARDED MESSAGE===================


Jean-Francois Avon, B.Sc. Physics, Montreal, Canada
  DePompadour, Société d'Importation Ltée
     Limoges fine porcelain and french crystal
  JFA Technologies, R&D physicists & engineers
     Instrumentation & control, LabView programming
PGP keys: http://bs.mit.edu:8001/pks-toplev.html
PGP ID:C58ADD0D:529645E8205A8A5E F87CC86FAEFEF891
PGP ID:5B51964D:152ACCBCD4A481B0 254011193237822C






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED MON OCT 19 
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Message-ID: <19981019071000.3889.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: totospitter@3253137429
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 15:41:45 -0700 (PDT)
To: chico@3253137429
Subject: Hillary's last ditch effort potion!
Message-ID: <199810192241.PAA11517@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


BOOST YOUR SEX APPEAL AND CHANGE YOUR SOCIAL AND SEX LIFE FOREVER. 

SCIENCE AND NATURE'S SEXUAL SECRET WEAPON! 

Scientists have isolated the natural Human male/female Pheromone attractants 
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IT'S GUARANTEED, or you pay nothing! 


PHEROMONES in the News! 

>From the NY Times to the LA Times. USA Today, The Wall Street Journal, Psychology Today, 20/20, Hard Copy, Single Living, Medical Tribune, Philadelphia Inquirer, Dateline, Discovery, Hustler, Playboy, Rocky Mountain News, McCalls, Penthouse, Cosmopolitan, BBC-TV, Colordao Telegraph, GQ, Time, Redbook, Fortune Magazine, and more.  Radio and Television Stations worldwide.  All have reported the scientific findings amidst excitement, controversy, commotion and thrill about pheromones and their potential use. 


The Press Has Said it Better Than We Can. 

"PUT IT TO THE TEST" MERIDIAN TV: 
Sold extensively in the UK, phermomones were tested live on television in the UK, when the unknowing female presenter was VERY ATTRACTED to one of the twin guys,  he was wearing "Androstenone Pheromone"  but she did not know this, and did not know why she was attracted to him ! 

US NEWS and WORLD REPORTS 
"The key to starting a love affair might be right under your nose. Scientists have just announced the discovery of a virtual sixth sense, a tiny organ in the nasal cavity that responds to chemicals known as pheromones. These natural substances are thought to play a role in basic human emotions such as fear, hunger--and love." 
FORTUNE MAGAZINE:  
"An imaginative University of Utah anatomist named David L. Berliner was working with substances that occur in human skin. When he left some of the extracts in open vials around the lab, he noticed a sudden, puzzling rise in camaraderie among a previously acrimonious group of researchers working with him. When he changed the extracts a 
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Nearly 30 years later, ...  thanks to a method of containing drugs and cosmetics inside tiny, spongelike polymer spheres, he returned to the subject. In 1989 he ... has isolated the suspected good-fellowship pheromones -- behavior-controlling substances similar to those already known to stimulate sexual activity in animals. (One whiff of a pheromone called aphrodisin from a female hamster and a male is ready to mate.) 

On March 3, 1998 FOX Affiliate, WSVN in Miami did a story on Pheromones, stating, "If you're looking for love, we've got a potion for passion." ...  "Tonight, a secret weapon to attract the opposite sex.  Researchers developing their own passion potion. Ever been attracted to someone but weren't really sure why? .... More and more research is pointing to chemicals these days.... undetectable chemicals... pheromones ... a clear odorless liquid" 

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-Tom on the Road Again, 

WHAT ARE PHEROMONES? 

Pheromones are a naturally occurring chemical compound found in all insects, all animals, and in humans. When pheromones are secreted they dictate sexual behavior and attract the opposite sex.  Be careful. Animal pheromones do NOT attract humans. 

Have you ever wondered why people who are not particularly attractive seem to attract dates like flies to honey?  They seem to have some "chemical attraction" about themselves. Some call it animal magnetism. It may be pheromones.  Now you can have that "chemical attraction" whenever you want. 

PHEROMONES - THE FACTS 

       Pheromones are natural chemicals which play an important role in sexual communication. 

       Animals, including humans release chemicals in tears, saliva and perspiration. These chemicals send signals relating to mood and health to the subconscious awareness.  One theory is that the dominant male will exude more of these chemical attractants than a submissive or weaker male.  This chemical attracts more females to him.  It is similar for woman attracting men. This natural attractant can also contribute to more 
intense excitement during love making (sexual foreplay and sexual intercourse). Pheromones may also contribute to the dating phrase, "chemical attraction" that we all talk about.  WSVN-TV (March 3, 1998) "Ever been attracted to someone but weren't really sure why? .... More and more research is pointing to chemicals these days.... undetectable chemicals... pheromones ... a clear odorless liquid" 


MORE RESEARCH AND REFERENCES: 
Following is some research done on products made by our manufacturer, and bottled under a different name.  It contains the same pheromone type and content as Hi-Octane
http://www.angelfire.com/fl/beaches69/index.html 



ABOUT OUR PRODUCT: 

Hi-Octane (tm) 

.. is made up of PHEROMONES suspended in witch hazel.. This product is designed to be added to your favorite cologne or perfume. 

.. contains both male and female PHEROMONES. Nature never intended for 
just one PHEROMONE to be present; but two, male and female. Our manufacturering process uses both PHEROMONES in ALL our products. This will not attract same sex; 
but works as nature intended, attracting the opposite sex. 

.. comes in 1/8 oz. Bottle with a small funnel so you can easily pour it into 
your cologne or perfume. One 1/8 oz. bottle is enough to mix with 4 to 8 oz of 
your favorite perfume product.  

Similar pheromone products have been sold for up to $100 elsewhere. We sell the the strongest product on the market today for only $39.95. 

BUY two -- get one free. 

The world's largest manufacturer of Pheromones, MC Marble, now manufactures Hi-Octane (tm), a pheromone prodcut that is the "Most Powerful sexual attractant on the Market today." 

HI_OCTANE is made with two powerful synthesized human 
pheromones, Alpha-Androstenol and Alpha-Androstenone. 

HI-OCTANE  will attract the opposite sex of the wearer.  McCall's magazine writes 
"...pheromones can improve one's love life, pheromones send out subconscious 
scent signals to the opposite sex that naturally trigger romantic feelings." 

HI-OCTANE  according to the manufacturer, may also intensify sex, by increasing sexual pleasure and endurance of both partners, and creating a higher sexual ecstasy. Individual results may vary.   One private study claims that pheromones don't work for everyone. 75% of those trying it had success.  Isn't it worth trying? 

HOW TO ORDER Hi OctaneTM 

Hi OctaneTM is available from Euphoria Products. 

A 1/8 oz. bottle with a convenient funnel (to be added to your favorite perfume) is 
$39.95. Mix 1/4 of the bottle with every 2 oz of your favorite product. One 1/8 oz. bottle is enough to mix with 4 to 8 oz of your favorite product. 

                         *** 

  For a limited time, when you order two bottles (up to a two month's supply) of Hi Octane(tm), you'll get a third bottle ABSOLUTELY FREE. 

                         *** 

Please add $3.00 shipping and handling per order. (regardless of how many bottles you order, you pay only $3.00 total!) 

UPS Second Day Air Delivery is available for an additional $9.00 per order.  Overnight, add $15.00 per order. 

Florida residents, please add applicable sales tax. 

For orders from outside of the US only ground shipping is available for $15. 

Our manufacturing facility offers the STRONGEST pheromones on the market today. Our manufacturing facility assures you that Hi-Octane will be always contain the male and female pheromones, the way nature intended it, to best attract the opposite sex for you. It is and will always be manufactured with the finest ingredients to assure your satisfaction. 



                        SATISFACTION GUARANTEED 

Try Hi OctaneTM risk-free. Your satisfaction is unconditionally guaranteed. If you do not find you are meeting and dating and scoring with more people of the opposite sex after using High OctaneTM for 30 days, simply return the unused portion of your order at any time for a full refund--no questions asked. 



Call 520-453-0303 Extension 202,  24 hours/day, 7 days/week for credit card orders. Have your MasterCard, Visa, American Express, and Discover Card  ready and say, " I would like to order ___ bottles of High Octane." 

If you would like to order by mail, you can send in a check or money order, or credit card information,  along with your name and street address (no PO Boxes please) and a day time phone number to: 

                         Euphoria Products Dept. 202 
                    1859 No Pine Island Rd. Suite #133
                            Plantation, FL 33322 












The Mailing List that you are being mailed from was filtered against
a Global Filter List. If you would like not to recieve any other mailings of this type please send an email to: removemenow@start.com.au with remove in the subject line.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: totospitter@3253137429
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 15:41:51 -0700 (PDT)
To: chico@3253137429
Subject: You'll be their wish in life!
Message-ID: <199810192241.PAA11519@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


BOOST YOUR SEX APPEAL AND CHANGE YOUR SOCIAL AND SEX LIFE FOREVER. 

SCIENCE AND NATURE'S SEXUAL SECRET WEAPON! 

Scientists have isolated the natural Human male/female Pheromone attractants 
and they are NOW available to YOU, legally, in the US. 

ATTRACT THE OPPOSITE SEX LIKE NEVER BEFORE ! 
IT'S GUARANTEED, or you pay nothing! 


PHEROMONES in the News! 

>From the NY Times to the LA Times. USA Today, The Wall Street Journal, Psychology Today, 20/20, Hard Copy, Single Living, Medical Tribune, Philadelphia Inquirer, Dateline, Discovery, Hustler, Playboy, Rocky Mountain News, McCalls, Penthouse, Cosmopolitan, BBC-TV, Colordao Telegraph, GQ, Time, Redbook, Fortune Magazine, and more.  Radio and Television Stations worldwide.  All have reported the scientific findings amidst excitement, controversy, commotion and thrill about pheromones and their potential use. 


The Press Has Said it Better Than We Can. 

"PUT IT TO THE TEST" MERIDIAN TV: 
Sold extensively in the UK, phermomones were tested live on television in the UK, when the unknowing female presenter was VERY ATTRACTED to one of the twin guys,  he was wearing "Androstenone Pheromone"  but she did not know this, and did not know why she was attracted to him ! 

US NEWS and WORLD REPORTS 
"The key to starting a love affair might be right under your nose. Scientists have just announced the discovery of a virtual sixth sense, a tiny organ in the nasal cavity that responds to chemicals known as pheromones. These natural substances are thought to play a role in basic human emotions such as fear, hunger--and love." 
FORTUNE MAGAZINE:  
"An imaginative University of Utah anatomist named David L. Berliner was working with substances that occur in human skin. When he left some of the extracts in open vials around the lab, he noticed a sudden, puzzling rise in camaraderie among a previously acrimonious group of researchers working with him. When he changed the extracts a 
few months later, the group resumed its contentious ways. Berliner froze and saved the extracts. 
Nearly 30 years later, ...  thanks to a method of containing drugs and cosmetics inside tiny, spongelike polymer spheres, he returned to the subject. In 1989 he ... has isolated the suspected good-fellowship pheromones -- behavior-controlling substances similar to those already known to stimulate sexual activity in animals. (One whiff of a pheromone called aphrodisin from a female hamster and a male is ready to mate.) 

On March 3, 1998 FOX Affiliate, WSVN in Miami did a story on Pheromones, stating, "If you're looking for love, we've got a potion for passion." ...  "Tonight, a secret weapon to attract the opposite sex.  Researchers developing their own passion potion. Ever been attracted to someone but weren't really sure why? .... More and more research is pointing to chemicals these days.... undetectable chemicals... pheromones ... a clear odorless liquid" 

Customers Say: 

"... works as advertised, best product of its' kind" 

I've always had trouble meeting women-then I tried your product.  Now girls come up to me and introduce themselves all the time! I'd like to know if your product is available in a larger quantity so I can make sure I'm never without it! 
-Dave J 

I've been driving a tractor trailer for about 6 years and I'm on the road all the time. It's been impossible to meet women until I tried pheromones.  Now every truck stop I pull into I meet new women, and many of them ask me out. Thanks! 
-Tom on the Road Again, 

WHAT ARE PHEROMONES? 

Pheromones are a naturally occurring chemical compound found in all insects, all animals, and in humans. When pheromones are secreted they dictate sexual behavior and attract the opposite sex.  Be careful. Animal pheromones do NOT attract humans. 

Have you ever wondered why people who are not particularly attractive seem to attract dates like flies to honey?  They seem to have some "chemical attraction" about themselves. Some call it animal magnetism. It may be pheromones.  Now you can have that "chemical attraction" whenever you want. 

PHEROMONES - THE FACTS 

       Pheromones are natural chemicals which play an important role in sexual communication. 

       Animals, including humans release chemicals in tears, saliva and perspiration. These chemicals send signals relating to mood and health to the subconscious awareness.  One theory is that the dominant male will exude more of these chemical attractants than a submissive or weaker male.  This chemical attracts more females to him.  It is similar for woman attracting men. This natural attractant can also contribute to more 
intense excitement during love making (sexual foreplay and sexual intercourse). Pheromones may also contribute to the dating phrase, "chemical attraction" that we all talk about.  WSVN-TV (March 3, 1998) "Ever been attracted to someone but weren't really sure why? .... More and more research is pointing to chemicals these days.... undetectable chemicals... pheromones ... a clear odorless liquid" 


MORE RESEARCH AND REFERENCES: 
Following is some research done on products made by our manufacturer, and bottled under a different name.  It contains the same pheromone type and content as Hi-Octane
http://www.angelfire.com/fl/beaches69/index.html 



ABOUT OUR PRODUCT: 

Hi-Octane (tm) 

.. is made up of PHEROMONES suspended in witch hazel.. This product is designed to be added to your favorite cologne or perfume. 

.. contains both male and female PHEROMONES. Nature never intended for 
just one PHEROMONE to be present; but two, male and female. Our manufacturering process uses both PHEROMONES in ALL our products. This will not attract same sex; 
but works as nature intended, attracting the opposite sex. 

.. comes in 1/8 oz. Bottle with a small funnel so you can easily pour it into 
your cologne or perfume. One 1/8 oz. bottle is enough to mix with 4 to 8 oz of 
your favorite perfume product.  

Similar pheromone products have been sold for up to $100 elsewhere. We sell the the strongest product on the market today for only $39.95. 

BUY two -- get one free. 

The world's largest manufacturer of Pheromones, MC Marble, now manufactures Hi-Octane (tm), a pheromone prodcut that is the "Most Powerful sexual attractant on the Market today." 

HI_OCTANE is made with two powerful synthesized human 
pheromones, Alpha-Androstenol and Alpha-Androstenone. 

HI-OCTANE  will attract the opposite sex of the wearer.  McCall's magazine writes 
"...pheromones can improve one's love life, pheromones send out subconscious 
scent signals to the opposite sex that naturally trigger romantic feelings." 

HI-OCTANE  according to the manufacturer, may also intensify sex, by increasing sexual pleasure and endurance of both partners, and creating a higher sexual ecstasy. Individual results may vary.   One private study claims that pheromones don't work for everyone. 75% of those trying it had success.  Isn't it worth trying? 

HOW TO ORDER Hi OctaneTM 

Hi OctaneTM is available from Euphoria Products. 

A 1/8 oz. bottle with a convenient funnel (to be added to your favorite perfume) is 
$39.95. Mix 1/4 of the bottle with every 2 oz of your favorite product. One 1/8 oz. bottle is enough to mix with 4 to 8 oz of your favorite product. 

                         *** 

  For a limited time, when you order two bottles (up to a two month's supply) of Hi Octane(tm), you'll get a third bottle ABSOLUTELY FREE. 

                         *** 

Please add $3.00 shipping and handling per order. (regardless of how many bottles you order, you pay only $3.00 total!) 

UPS Second Day Air Delivery is available for an additional $9.00 per order.  Overnight, add $15.00 per order. 

Florida residents, please add applicable sales tax. 

For orders from outside of the US only ground shipping is available for $15. 

Our manufacturing facility offers the STRONGEST pheromones on the market today. Our manufacturing facility assures you that Hi-Octane will be always contain the male and female pheromones, the way nature intended it, to best attract the opposite sex for you. It is and will always be manufactured with the finest ingredients to assure your satisfaction. 



                        SATISFACTION GUARANTEED 

Try Hi OctaneTM risk-free. Your satisfaction is unconditionally guaranteed. If you do not find you are meeting and dating and scoring with more people of the opposite sex after using High OctaneTM for 30 days, simply return the unused portion of your order at any time for a full refund--no questions asked. 



Call 520-453-0303 Extension 202,  24 hours/day, 7 days/week for credit card orders. Have your MasterCard, Visa, American Express, and Discover Card  ready and say, " I would like to order ___ bottles of High Octane." 

If you would like to order by mail, you can send in a check or money order, or credit card information,  along with your name and street address (no PO Boxes please) and a day time phone number to: 

                         Euphoria Products Dept. 202 
                    1859 No Pine Island Rd. Suite #133
                            Plantation, FL 33322 












The Mailing List that you are being mailed from was filtered against
a Global Filter List. If you would like not to recieve any other mailings of this type please send an email to: removemenow@start.com.au with remove in the subject line.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: christine@1stnettech.com
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 18:56:49 -0700 (PDT)
To: christine@1stnettech.com
Subject: ADV: U.S. Patent Office Grants Patent On QPI's Breakthrough
Message-ID: <199810191753.SAA02524@websites>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


U.S. Patent Office Grants Patent
On QPI's Breakthrough
PhotoMotion Multi-Imaging Technology

Quik Pix Inc. Buena Park, CA (OTCBB SYMBOL: QPIX) announced today that the Company has been granted the Patent on a breakthrough technology, PhotoMotion Multi-Imaging.  QPI is a company specializing in high quality photographic imaging and visual marketing technologies.

The Patent just awarded covers the technology enabling QPI to combine three or more images into a single color transparency that, as if by magic, changes as the astonished viewer moves past the image.  The image moves with the viewer.  The illusion is optical and requires no special equipment or other mechanism to create this mystical effect.

PhotoMotion Multi-Imaging Technology images combined with text or graphics readily fit into existing light box fixtures creating a visual presentation that is so amazing and distinct that PhotoMotion stands to revolutionize the imaging for most backlit advertising displays used in tradeshows, point of purchase locations, foot traffic venues, etc.

Mr. John Capie, QPI President, said, "Everyone who sees PhotoMotion is very enthusiastic.  The responses from advertisers, marketers, and photo industry people have been very positive.  This is going to be a photographic milestone."

For more information about our company and this investment opportunity, please visit 
http://www.1stnettech.com/qpix/

This news release includes forward-looking statements that are subject to risks and uncertainties, including risks associated with the company's: (1) entry into new markets and development and introduction of new products; and (2) the company's need to finance costs related thereto. Actual results may vary from those projected or implied by such statements. 

Quik Pix Inc.
7050 Village Drive Suite F
Buena Park, CA. 90621 
John Capie
President
Inside Southern California - 800-734-0432
Outside Southern California - 714 522-8255

_________________________________________________________________________
Further transmissions to you by the sender of this e-mail may be stopped at no cost
to you by replying to remove@1stnettech.com 
                       We apologize for any inconvenience





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED TUE OCT 20 
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 08:14:13 -0700 (PDT)
To: (OVER 100 FREE PICS DAILY!)
Subject: EVEN MORE FREE PORN: STUFFED HAS 10 LINKS TO 100S OF FREE PICS, NEW EVERY DAY
Message-ID: <19981020071000.4746.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


+ 30 SUPERB, HI-RES, HOT PHOTOS
+ 5 SUPER SEXY STORIES
+ ULTRA FREE XXX
+ ABSOLUT FREE HARDCORE
+ BIMBO DIGEST
+ ASIAN ACTION
+ BOOBS R US
+ ALL DAY PUSSY PARTY
+ MISS TEASE FREE XXX PLAYHOUSE
+ HOT SEX 4 U
+ THE IDEAL NUDE BEACH
+ GALLERY XXX
+ BONUS PIC 1 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/29645.htm
+ BONUS PIC 2 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/20932.htm
+ BONUS PIC 3 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/31091.htm
+ BONUS PIC 4 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/31754.htm
+ BONUS PIC 5 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/21188.htm
+ MUCH, MUCH MORE!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----

If you haven't visited STUFFED in the last few days,  you're
in for a real treat.  It's faster than  ever before and now,
as a subscriber,  you get 35 FREE new pics  every day,  plus
over 100 more at carefully selected FREE sites we link to.

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: info@tcii.net
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 09:00:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: NEW SECURE INFO MANAGEMENT SYSTEM
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Subject: NEW SECURE INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY ANNOUNCEMENT

The reason that we are communicating to you is simple.  We understand that you are concerned with information security solutions and we need to get the news out about a new kind of technology, which we call Premonition.  You need to know that this brand new class of secure Internet publishing technology is in the final phase of development and our company is working hard to make it available!  Please take just a few moments to visit our web page located at www.tcii.net/premonition.  You will find that there are no requests to purchase anything.

We believe our company is on target and that information-based businesses and clients who need secure publishing will benefit.  This is an enormous opportunity involving the entire information publishing industry so we know we need help.  During this final development phase our company is now beginning to organize a network of business contacts across the country and around the world including those who may wish to participate or become associated with us in this venture.  For you to understand what this means you need an opportunity to visit our website at www.tcii.net/premonition.

So come to our web site for a visit.  If you like what you see then you can send us an email reply from our address on our web page. We know that you will find the general concept of our technology interesting and we will appreciate constructive suggestions.

But please do not wait and do not delay; this is a limited one-time window of opportunity for you to consider.  After this message your email address will be automatically added to our remove list and we will not try to target your address again.  We must limit the number of people we will send this message to.  However, you are welcome to forward this message on to other qualified professionals who you think may be interested.

We want to thank those of you who choose to participate for your honest review of www.tcii.net/premonition. You will see that sometimes it can be refreshing and worth your while to take a look at new information that drops in your email.

Sincerely,
Transaction Control International, Inc.
Memphis, Tennessee

www.tcii.net/premonition





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: pop7@angelfire.com
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 22:21:20 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: CREDIT CARD PROCESSING
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



***************************************************************
To be REMOVED from further mailings please respond with 
the word "remove" to the address listed below. DONOT
reply to the address listed in the headers.
***************************************************************

Dear Friend,

Discover how you can accept credit cards directly
from your website, telephone or fax for your products 
and services and never need to purchase or lease
expensive credit card equipment or pay a monthly 
large fee for online ordering capabilities?

**Brand New**  Inteli-Charge Credit Card acceptance program 
allows you to accept VISA or Mastercard any TIME,any WHERE 
through phone, fax or internet without the need to purchase 
or lease expensive credit card equipment. This brand new 
program will allow you to accept credit cards tomorrow.
You simply pick up your telephone, dial a special toll free
800# 24 hrs a day 7 days a week, input a passcode and the
credit card # and receive an immediate authorization over the phone.
Within 2 days the money is deposited in your bank account. This is
an exciting program for all businesses. Before you spend any money
on a credit card program LOOK at this new program! 

If you have an interest in learning more about a Merchant Account 
for yourself or your business please email your Name, PHONE NUMBER 
(Don't forget your area code) and best time to call to:

mailto:cardacct1@freeaccount.com
 
A representative will return your call within 24hrs.

Or feel free to call us on our 24 hour voicemail at:

1-800-600-0343 Ext:2104

P.S. ALSO AS PART OF A SPECIAL NATIONAL PROMOTION, IF
YOU ACT NOW YOU WILL RECEIVE A FREE ONLINE 
STORE WITH SECURE ORDERING CAPABILITIES
TO SELL YOUR PRODUCTS ONLINE! 


World Teknologies Inc.
7210 Jordan Ave.
Ca. 91303











































From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: insight@sprynet.com
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 03:44:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199810211043.DAA04842@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


10/21/98

Y2K  Solution...
8  Pine  Circle  Dr., Silicon  Valley, Calif.

OTC  Company  "TCFG"  21 st. Century  Frontier  Group  has
through  several  members  of  their  administrative  research
department  leaked  vital  information  about  their  companies  
efforts.

Everyone  was  tight  lipped  and  interviews  were  refused,
and  through  un-named  sources  we  have  learned  that  the  
technology  and  software  solution  are  in  the  process  of  
being  patented!

In over  1640  trials, using  various  data  systems  the  use  
of  the  new  technology  and  software  solved  the  Y2K
problem  100%  of  the  time. 

This  small  publicly  traded  company  "TCFG"  which  is  just
3  years  old  is  through  various  sources  now  negotiating
with  the  "Big  Boys"!

"TCFG"  the  letters  to  look  for..... 

----------------------------------------------------------------

  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED WED OCT 21 
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 13:47:46 -0700 (PDT)
To: (OVER 100 FREE PICS DAILY!)
Subject: EVEN MORE FREE PORN: STUFFED HAS 10 LINKS TO 100S OF FREE PICS, NEW EVERY DAY
Message-ID: <19981021071000.26414.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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+ 5 SUPER SEXY STORIES
+ ALL THAT ASS
+ ANAL DELIGHT
+ NYMPHO9
+ GOT XXX?
+ GOO GOO'S PLEASURE PALACE
+ MAD MAX'S ULTIMATE BABES
+ EARTHQUAKE NUDE WOMEN
+ SEX HAPPY
+ WHACKOHOLICS ANONYMOUS
+ HOT BABES
+ BONUS PIC 1 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/24259.htm
+ BONUS PIC 2 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/32166.htm
+ BONUS PIC 3 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/12459.htm
+ BONUS PIC 4 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/13509.htm
+ BONUS PIC 5 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/17450.htm
+ MUCH, MUCH MORE!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----

If you haven't visited STUFFED in the last few days,  you're
in for a real treat.  It's faster than  ever before and now,
as a subscriber,  you get 35 FREE new pics  every day,  plus
over 100 more at carefully selected FREE sites we link to.

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nations@freeyellow.com
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 13:32:31 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199810212032.NAA11733@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


                             10/21/98

Y2K  Solution!
8  Pine  Circle  Dr., Silicon  Valley, Calif.

OTC  Company  "TCFG"  21 st. Century  Frontier  Group  has
through  several  members  of  their  administrative  research
department  leaked  vital  information  about  their  companies  
efforts.

Everyone  was  tight  lipped  and  interviews  were  refused,
and  through  un-named  sources  we  have  learned  that  the  
technology  and  software  solution  are  in  the  process  of  
being  patented!

In over  1640  trials, using  various  data  systems  the  use  
of  the  new  technology  and  software  solved  the  Y2K
problem  100%  of  the  time. 

This  small  publicly  traded  company  "TCFG"  which  is  just
3  years  old  is  through  various  sources  now  negotiating
with  the  "Big  Boys"!

"TCFG"  the  letters  to  look  for.....



 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Jack Oswald / CEO / RPK Security" 
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 14:40:28 -0700 (PDT)
To: Announcements@rpkusa.com
Subject: ANNOUNCEMENT: RPK SECURITY'S "SAFECRACKER CHALLENGE" INVITES USERS TO "BREAK" RPK ENCRYPTONITE ENGINE AND WIN $10,000
Message-ID: <199810212135.OAA11043@proxy4.ba.best.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


You have received this message because at some time in the past your name was submitted to our e-mail mailing list database.  If you do not wish (or no longer wish) to receive announcements, updates and news concerning the RPK Encryptonite Engine or the RPK InvisiMail e-mail security products, please forward this message to remove@rpkusa.com

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

CONTACT
Paula Miller							Lyn Oswald
Nadel Phelan, Inc.						RPK Security Inc.
408-439-5570 x277						212-488-9891
paulam@nadelphelan.com					lynoswald@rpkusa.com	


RPK SECURITY'S "SAFECRACKER CHALLENGE" INVITES USERS TO "BREAK" RPK ENCRYPTONITE ENGINE AND WIN $10,000

SAN FRANCISCO, CA. October 21, 1998 - RPK Security, Inc. (www.rpkusa.com), a technology leader in fast public key encryption, announced today the "SafeCracker Challenge", a contest offering US$10,000 to the first person who breaks the technology behind the company's uniquely fast public key cryptosystem, RPK Encryptonite Engine. 

In order to receive the cash reward, participants must download the encrypted test document and test public key from RPK Security's website, www.rpkusa.com, and then submit via email the private key that corresponds to the current test public key, or the correctly decrypted test document.

"We're launching the SafeCracker Challenge to demonstrate that the RPK Encryptonite Engine provides the most secure, fast and flexible public key system on the market today," said Jack Oswald, president and CEO of RPK Security. "Recently patented in New Zealand and the US, the technology behind the RPK Encryptonite Engine is based on the same mathematics as Diffie-Hellman Key Exchange, a widely used algorithm for creating secure network-based communications systems, and is highly respected by security experts." 

The RPK Encryptonite Engine is a uniquely fast public key algorithm for encryption, authentication and digital signatures. It offers a combination of the benefits of commonly used public key systems (ease of key management, authentication and digital signatures) and the high performance characteristics of commonly used symmetric or "secret key" systems. Developed outside of the U.S., the RPK Encryptonite Engine is available globally with strong encryption, unlike competing products that are restricted by U.S. export regulations.

ABOUT RPK SECURITY
Founded in 1995, RPK Security, Inc. is a technology leader in fast public key cryptography.  Its flagship RPK Encryptonite(tm) Engine, a uniquely fast and strong public key encryption technology, is available worldwide in custom hardware and software toolkits on multiple platforms.  Developed from widely accepted security mathematics and techniques, the RPK Encryptonite Engine is easily embedded into new and existing hardware and software applications.  RPK's cryptographic research and product development is based in New Zealand, Switzerland and the U.K, with worldwide sales and marketing operations in San Francisco, CA.  Visit RPK's website at www.rpkusa.com or call (212) 488-9891.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: casinofun@who.net
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 08:52:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Internet Casino Lottery - Enter at No Cost
Message-ID: <199810211449.OAA11354@intersky.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Enter at No Cost!

The time has come to enjoy casino games from the comfort of your home.
Find out where to play all of your favorite casino games online securely.
Blackjack, Craps, Slot Machines, Roulette, Baccarat, Bingo & Much More! The
best odds. Huge pay-outs. Top-Rated Customer Service.

For more information, reply below IMMEDIATELY and you will be GUARANTEED
TO RECEIVE between $25.00 and $10,000.00.  What better way to visit the
best Casino's on the Internet?  Use their dollars and enjoy the best online
Casino's the world has to offer.  If you enjoy Casino gaming then this is
for you.  You need to reply today for more information and guaranteed
acceptance.

You must respond NOW at OffshoreCasinoLottery@bigfoot.com and type
"SHOW ME THE MONEY" in the Subject line of the message.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Jack Oswald / CEO / RPK Security" 
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 15:34:46 -0700 (PDT)
To: Announcements@rpkusa.com
Subject: ANNOUNCEMENT: INVISIMAIL INTERNATIONAL LTD. ANNOUNCES RPK InvisiMail VERSION 3.0
Message-ID: <199810212219.PAA10544@proxy4.ba.best.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


You have received this message because at some time in the past your name was submitted to our e-mail mailing list database.  If you do not wish (or no longer wish) to receive announcements, updates and news concerning the RPK Encryptonite Engine or the RPK InvisiMail e-mail security products, please forward this message to remove@rpkusa.com

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

CONTACT
Paula Miller							Lyn Oswald
Nadel Phelan, Inc.						RPK Security Inc.
408-439-5570 x277						212-488-9891
paulam@nadelphelan.com					lynoswald@rpkusa.com		

INVISIMAIL INTERNATIONAL LTD. ANNOUNCES RPK InvisiMail VERSION 3.0

New York, NY, October 21 1998 - InvisiMail International, Ltd., (www.InvisiMail.com) announced today the latest release of its RPK InvisiMail Intro 3.0 and RPK InvisiMail Deluxe 3.0 e-mail encryption products. RPK InvisiMail provides individual e-mail users with the easiest solution for automatically and transparently encrypting e-mail messages and attachments. The first e-mail security product with globally strong encryption, RPK InvisiMail integrates seamlessly with more e-mail products than any other security solution available today. RPK InvisiMail enables authentication of the sender and verifies contents have not been changed in transit.

RPK InvisiMail Intro provides fast, secure (607bit) encryption for e-mail messages and attachments, and is unobtrusive allowing e-mail which is sent to non-InvisiMail users to be simply and intelligently passed as a conventional e-mail message.  RPK InvisiMail Deluxe adds an even higher level of security (up to 1279bit) and provides features such as e-mail compression that reduces transmission time, and digital message signatures to validate senders.
 
InvisiMail International also offers RPK InvisiMail Enterprise Edition, a strong corporate e-mail security add-in. RPK InvisiMail Enterprise Edition's flexible design allows corporate IT managers to configure e-mail security for individual users, networks and gateways.
More

Pricing and Availability
The RPK InvisiMail Intro version is free. The Deluxe version retails for $29.95 U.S. Both the Intro and the Deluxe versions are available for download from the InvisiMail International web site at www.InvisiMail.com. Pricing for RPK InvisiMail Enterprise Edition is based on the number of seat licenses and starts at $100 per user.

ABOUT InvisiMail INTERNATIONAL LTD.
InvisiMail International Ltd., founded in 1997, specializes in secure Internet commerce and communications solutions for a wide range of applications. Developed using RPK Security, Inc.'s core technology, the RPK Encryptonite Engine, the InvisiMail range of products supports secure message-based applications including Client Services ECommerce, EDI and others that require absolute confidentiality and the highest security levels.  This allows the simplest e-mail systems to become the most powerful business and commerce tools.  Contact InvisiMail at www.InvisiMail.com or call +44 1624 611 003.

ABOUT RPK SECURITY
Founded in 1995, RPK Security, Inc. is a technology leader in fast public key cryptography.  Its flagship RPK Encryptonite Engine, a uniquely fast and strong public key encryption technology, is available worldwide in custom hardware and software toolkits on multiple platforms. Visit RPK's website at www.rpkusa.com or call (212) 488-9891.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Member Benefits 
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 07:46:22 -0700 (PDT)
To: Member Benefits 
Subject: Biztravel.com Free $50 Gift
Message-ID: <362E517D.6A64099C@biztravel.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Dear Biztravel.com member,

I'd like to remind you that the incredible $50 gift offer
we told you about last month expires on 10/31/98.

We'll give you a $50 American Express(R) Gift Cheque
FREE with your first flight purchase*!

But you must ACT QUICKLY:
-  purchase and commence travel on your first flight by 10/31/98
-  after you take your trip we'll mail your gift

So if you have a trip to take before the end of October,
book it now at http://www.biztravel.com.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Edwin E. Smith" 
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 15:43:40 -0700 (PDT)
To: Tim Griffiths 
Subject: Re: Women cannot commit rape?
In-Reply-To: <362DD16D.2B1A6570@wis.weizmann.ac.il>
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19981021183752.0097b390@mailhost.IntNet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

This judge obviously never heard of being "Scared stiff!" (I'm not 
joking!)

At 02:19 PM 10/21/98 +0200, you wrote:
>French Supreme Court rules that women cannot commit rape
>
>Copyright (c) 1998 Nando.net
>Copyright (c) 1998 Reuters News Service
>
>PARIS (October 21, 1998 06:38 a.m. EDT http://www.nandotimes.com) -
>France's
>Supreme Court ruled on Wednesday that women are unable to commit the
>crime of
>rape because they cannot sexually penetrate men.
>
>"The material element of the crime of rape is only realized if the
>perpetrator
>commits the act of sexual penetration on the person of the victim," 
it
>said in
>its judgment.
>
>The court, known as the Cour de Cassation, overturned a lower court
>ruling
>that Catherine Maillard could be tried for rape on charges of 
forcing
>her
>underage stepson to have sex with her repeatedly between 1986 and 
1992.
>
>Maillard could only be tried for "aggravated sexual aggression" 
against
>the
>boy, while his father Michel Deloisy had to be tried for "moral
>abandonment of
>a child" instead of the original charge of "complicity in aggravated
>rape,"
>the court said.
>
>With its judgment, the court seemed to contradict an earlier ruling 
it
>issued
>in December 1997 saying that forcing someone to perform oral sex act 
was
>legally equivalent to rape.
>
>
>--
>Tim Griffiths                   griffith@wis.weizmann.ac.il
>Center for Submicron Research   http://tim01.ex.ac.uk
>Weizmann Institute of Science   (972)-8-934-2736
>Rehovot 76100 Israel
>PGP Public key available - finger tim@tim01.ex.ac.uk
>
>The real value lies not in what I say or do,
>but in your reaction to it.  -DF
>
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0
Charset: noconv

iQA/AwUBNi5iP0mNf6b56PAtEQLGSgCfTGnGghfeKzUqgbvqcdcQweSdmecAoIUF
IKfm8vWr74WI/yLlFkqMO6lr
=UchJ
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


When freedom is outlawed.......Only outlaws will be free!

If cryptography is outlawed, pomz pvumbxt xjmm ibwf dszquphsbqiz.

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When you blame others, you give up your power to change.
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   http://home.tampabay.rr.com/lphc

When a place gets crowded enough to require ID's, social collapse is not far
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it made it possible to go elsewhere.

Lazarus Long




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 14:51:13 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re:
Message-ID: <199810212150.XAA07067@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Here's an idea.  FUCK OFF!  Why don't you go stick a Y2k
bowling ball up your ass, and never post here again, you
degenerate piece of shit!  Or better yet, take every member of
your administrative research department, march them up to the
roof of the highest building in Silicon Valley, and push them all
off!  Then throw yourself off, you spineless maggot!

The only letters I'm looking for are the ones signed by Janet Reno
to the BATF to march in and kill your entire employee base.  Please
let me know when those arrive.


At 12:55 PM 10/21/98 +0000, nations@freewilly.com wrote:
>                             10/21/98
>
>Y2K  Solution!
>8  Pine  Circle  Dr., Silicon  Valley, Calif.
>
>OTC  Company  "TCFG"  21 st. Century  Frontier  Group  has
>through  several  members  of  their  administrative  research
>department  leaked  vital  information  about  their  companies  
>efforts.
>
>Everyone  was  tight  lipped  and  interviews  were  refused,
>and  through  un-named  sources  we  have  learned  that  the  
>technology  and  software  solution  are  in  the  process  of  
>being  patented!
>
>In over  1640  trials, using  various  data  systems  the  use  
>of  the  new  technology  and  software  solved  the  Y2K
>problem  100%  of  the  time. 
>
>This  small  publicly  traded  company  "TCFG"  which  is  just
>3  years  old  is  through  various  sources  now  negotiating
>with  the  "Big  Boys"!
>
>"TCFG"  the  letters  to  look  for.....
>
>
>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: concerned@aol.com
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 05:16:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Y2K...
Message-ID: <199810221216.FAA18413@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


                             10/22/98

Y2K  Solution...
8  Pine  Circle  Dr., Silicon  Valley, Calif.

OTC  Company  "TCFG"  21 st. Century  Frontier  Group  has
through  several  members  of  their  administrative  research
department  leaked  vital  information  about  their  companies  
efforts.

Everyone  was  tight  lipped  and  interviews  were  refused,
and  through  un-named  sources  we  have  learned  that  the  
technology  and  software  solution  are  in  the  process  of  
being  patented!

In over  1640  trials, using  various  data  systems  the  use  
of  the  new  technology  and  software  solved  the  Y2K
problem  100%  of  the  time. 

This  small  publicly  traded  company  "TCFG"  which  is  just
3  years  old  is  through  various  sources  now  negotiating
with  the  "Big  Boys"!

"TCFG"  the  letters  to  look  for..... 




----------------------------------------------------------------
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED THU OCT 22 
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 22:58:51 -0700 (PDT)
To: (OVER 100 FREE PICS DAILY!)
Subject: 100S OF FREE PICS'N'LINKS EVERY DAY!
Message-ID: <19981022071000.4036.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


+ 30 SUPERB, HI-RES, HOT PHOTOS
+ 5 SUPER SEXY STORIES
+ LORI'S ABSOLUTE SEX
+ EASY TO PLEASE LEWINSKI
+ ONLY EROTICA
+ XXXPOSE
+ GALLERY XXX
+ CENTERFOLD GIRLS
+ FANTASY HOUSEWIFE GANGBANG
+ PANTIES & LACE
+ DANIELLE'S DEN
+ XXX ASIAN SLUTS
+ BONUS PIC 1 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/18872.htm
+ BONUS PIC 2 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/10632.htm
+ BONUS PIC 3 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/26595.htm
+ BONUS PIC 4 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/28032.htm
+ BONUS PIC 5 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/13712.htm
+ MUCH, MUCH MORE!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----

If you haven't visited STUFFED in the last few days,  you're
in for a real treat.  It's faster than  ever before and now,
as a subscriber,  you get 35 FREE new pics  every day,  plus
over 100 more at carefully selected FREE sites we link to.

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: KSanchez498@msn.com
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 13:21:38 -0700 (PDT)
To: Great@Scanning
Subject: WHAT DO YOU LOOK LIKE??? Send your pic through email.......
Message-ID: <0d35757192016a8UPIMSSMTPUSR01@email.msn.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Did you know that you can send a picture of yourself to your friends online and you don't even need to buy a scanner?



>How many times have you been asked "what do you look like" while talking in a chat room?



>Have you ever wished that you could send updated pictures to family or friends?



>Did you ever just want to have a picture album on your computer?



>That's where we come in.  We will scan any picture or document and return it to you via E-mail, the same day received.



>All you need to do is send us whatever picture or document you want scanned through regular mail and we will scan it, E-mail it to you the same day, and send you back the original undamaged.



>The fee for this service is $5 for the first picture and $2 for every picture thereafter.  E-mail us to ask about special bulk rates.  Compare that price to overpriced stores like Kinko's that charge $10-15 to have only one picture scanned.  We even guarantee that if your scan gets damaged or lost (like if your computer were to crash), we will resend it to you at no additional charge.



> Mail pictures or documents and cash, check or money order to



The Lady Scanner

PO Box 92841

Long Beach, Ca 90809



>Don't forget to include your return address if you would like the picture or document returned to you, your e-mail address, and the picture or document......



>If you have questions or would like to be removed from this list please E-Mail The Lady Scanner (Click Here) for assistance.....


















































































































































From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: rir@atnet.at
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 15:43:03 -0700 (PDT)
To: rir@atnet.at
Subject: RELEASED 10/15/98!  VOL. 2
Message-ID: <011328705550122442@ls_flancygerm.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



PRESS RELEASE 10/15/98
INTRODUCING...THE CD VOL. 2   

The CD - Vol. 2, is the absolute best product of its' kind anywhere 
in the world today.  There are no other products anywhere that can 
compete with the quality of this product.

We took a total of over 190 million email addresses from many of the
touted CD's that are out there (bought them all - some were $300+)!
We added the millions we had in storage to those.   When we
combined them all, we had in excess of 300+ million addresses
in one huge file.

We  ran a super "sort/de-dupe" program against this huge list. It 
cut the file down to less than 20 million!!! Can you believe that? It 
seems that most people that are selling CD's are duping the public by 
putting numerous files of addresses in the CD over and over. This 
created many duplicate addresses. They also had many program "generated" 
email addresses like CompuServe, MCI, ANON's, etc.  This causes a 
tremendous amount of undeliverables.

After completion of removal of duplicates and initial filtering we were 
left with the base of 10 Million addresses worth fine tuning to finish the 
project.  Remember, we are not here to produce the CD with the gad zillion 
millions that our competitors are so proud to put their names on these days.  
We ARE here to produce the very BEST CD list as far as quality of 
addresses go

We then ran a program that contained 300+ keywords to remove addresses
with vulgarity,  profanity, sex-related names, postmaster, webmaster, flamer, 
abuse, spam, etc., etc.   Also eliminated all .EDU, mil, .org, .GOV, Genie, 
Delphi, GNN, Wow etc.   We also filtered out all addresses found in any of 
our 1300+ domains list.  We also filtered out addresses in excess of 30,000 
which have proven to be affiliated with anyone found to be opposed to our 
using direct bulk email as a advertising medium. We have also purged the 
list to be free of any "web poison" addresses created by those who are opposed 
to us conducting legitimate business on the internet today.  If you do not know 
what web poisoned addresses are, please look it up now.  One list we recently 
purchased had over 90% poisoned addresses.  The "bottom line" here is that 
you can go out on the world market today and purchase every lists for thousands 
of dollars and NOT have anymore worth owning than what we have compiled 
for you here today.

You use these addresses, you will experience increased response, increased 
sales, and a host of other positives that far exceeds any hoped for results when 
using the competitor's inferior products.  Our customers purchase our products 
over and over and over.  Most of the competition ever succeeds is selling a 
second product to anyone after they purchase the first.

  So, you see, our list will save people hundreds of dollars buying all others that are 
out there on  CD and otherwise. Using ours will be like using the 200+ million that 
we started with, but a lot less money and a lot less time!!
 
We have always said, "You can buy from the REST or you can buy from the BEST".   
Your choice.

                     _____________________________

                       What others are saying:

"I received the CD on Friday evening.   Like a kid with a new toy, I
 immediately started bulking out using the new email addresses.  Over
 the course of the weekend, I emailed out over 500,000 emails and I
 received less than TWENTY undeliverables!!  I am totally satisfied
with my purchase!!  Thanks Premier!!"
                              Dave Buckley
                              Houston,  TX
 
 "This list is worth it's weight in gold!!  I sent out 100,000 emails for my
 product and received over 55 orders!
                               Ann Colby
                            New Orleans, LA
 
                ****************************************
 
                                 HERE'S THE BOTTOM LINE
 
The CD is comprised of 7 million PREMIUM & SUPER clean addresses -ready 
for mailing upon receipt of the CD.  Each file contains exactly 100,000 email 
addresses. There are only AOL & Mixed addresses on this CD.  You have 50 files 
of 100,000 each of AOL to equal 5,000,000 addresses.  The AOL addresses are less 
than 6 weeks old and have been collected throughout the production schedule.
 
The remaining files are comprised of General Internet addresses. There are 20 files 
of 100,000 each, totaling 2,000,000 premium addresses.   NO Compuserve!  No Delphi!
No Genie!  No Prodigy!  NO Filler Addresses!  Simply the Best of the Best!!!

 
                           >>> ONLY $200.00!
 
This price is effective for the next seven days, thereafter the price will be
$299.00 so ORDER NOW!  Remember, bottom-line you always get what you pay for!

All lists are completely free of any Duplicates. We also on a continual basis, add 
New Names and Remove Undeliverables and Remove Requests. The result is the 
Cleanest Email Addresses Available Anywhere to use over and over again, for a 
FRACTION of the cost that other companies charge. Typical rates for acquiring 
email lists are from 1cent to as high as 3 cents per email  address - that's  
"INFORMATION HIGHWAY" ROBBERY!.

We continually work on our CD.  Who knows when those other CDs were made. 
We're constantly adding and deleting addresses, removes. Etc.  It all comes back 
to quality.

Don't even hesitate on this one or you will miss out on the most effective way to 
market anywhere...PERIOD!  If you have any further questions or to place an order, 
you can call toll free at:

800-600-0343  Ext. 2693


To order our email package, simply print out the EZ ORDER FORM
below and fax or mail it to our office today.
 
We accept Visa, Mastercard, AMEX, Checks by Fax.
 
 _________________
EZ Order Form
 

 _____Yes! I would like to order MILLIONS Vol. 2  email addresses
for only $200.00.
 
*Please select one of the following for shipping..
 
____I would like to receive my package OVERNIGHT. I'm including
$15 for shipping. (outside US add an additional $25 for shipping)
 
____I would like to receive my package 2 DAY delivery. I'm including
$10 for shipping.  (outside US add an additional $25 for shipping)
 
DATE_____________________________________________________
 
NAME____________________________________________________

COMPANY NAME___________________________________________

ADDRESS_________________________________________________

CITY, STATE, ZIP___________________________________________
 
PHONE NUMBERS__________________________________________
 
FAX NUMBERS_____________________________________________
 
EMAIL ADDRESS___________________________________________
 
TYPE OF CREDIT CARD:
 
______VISA _____MASTERCARD
 
CREDIT CARD# __________________________________________
 
EXPIRATION DATE________________________________________
 
NAME ON CARD___________________________________________
 
AMOUNT $____________________
 
 
(Required) SIGNATURE:x________________________
 
DATE:x__________________
 
You may fax your order to us at:   1-212-504-8192
 

CHECK BY FAX SERVICES!
 
If you would like to fax a check, paste your check below and fax it to
our office along with all forms to: 1-212-504-8192

******************************************************

***24 HOUR FAX SERVICES*** PLEASE PASTE YOUR
 
CHECK HERE AND FAX IT TO US AT 1-212-504-8192
 
*******************************************************
 
If You fax a check, there is no need for you to send the original check.
We will draft up a new check, with the exact information from your
original check. All checks will be held for bank clearance.  (7-10 days)
Make payable to: "GD Publishing"






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED FRI OCT 23 
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 10:27:02 -0700 (PDT)
To: (OVER 100 FREE PICS DAILY!)
Subject: 100S OF FREE PICS'N'LINKS EVERY DAY!
Message-ID: <19981023071001.26004.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


+ 30 SUPERB, HI-RES, HOT PHOTOS
+ 5 SUPER SEXY STORIES
+ SWEBABES
+ FREE PORN 4 ALL
+ OUTRACK STEAKHOUSE
+ EBONYPORN
+ BABE ACCESS
+ FREE HARDCORE PORN
+ EACH STROKE COUNTS
+ AFTER DARK CLUB
+ PORN PRINCE
+ ULTRA FREE XXX
+ BONUS PIC 1 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/13486.htm
+ BONUS PIC 2 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/21866.htm
+ BONUS PIC 3 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/7963.htm
+ BONUS PIC 4 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/9787.htm
+ BONUS PIC 5 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/9974.htm
+ MUCH, MUCH MORE!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----

If you haven't visited STUFFED in the last few days,  you're
in for a real treat.  It's faster than  ever before and now,
as a subscriber,  you get 35 FREE new pics  every day,  plus
over 100 more at carefully selected FREE sites we link to.

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "The BSB Publishing Comp." <043276@webmail.bellsouth.net>
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 10:37:03 -0700 (PDT)
To: 
Subject: Offering 50,000 African American Email Addresses . .
Message-ID: <199810231710.NAA00348@websmtp1.bellsouth.bigfoot.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Email up to 50,000 African-American Consumers

CALL TOLL FREE TO ORDER - (800)305-1458

Also . . . Email 4,000 Black business owners and entrepreneurs
simultaneously. Generate web traffic and sales by exchanging links and
banners with other African- American Entrepreneurs.

Do you have a product or service of interest to African-Americans on the Internet?
Would you like to effortlessly expand your customer base by up to
50,000 African-Americans for under $100? If you answered yes to either
of these questions, then our email marketing lists are what you need.

We have a database of well over 50,000 email addresses of
African-Americans who may be interested in your products and services.
We also offer a email list of 4,000 African American entreprenuers and
businesses who do business on the internet. These contacts could lead
to a mutually profitible business relationship including banner and
link exchanges.

These pre-screened email addresses are compiled on 3.5" diskettes in
standard "DBASE IV" and "TEXT" format which are universally compatible
with email merge programs like CyberMailer Pro and word processing
programs. All you need to do is import the list into an email merge
program which will automatically email everyone on the list. It
couldn't be easier or more efficient.

Email up to 50,000 African-Americans immediately!

50,000 AA Email Addresses -   $99.95
10,000 AA Email Addresses -   $49.95
4,000  AA Entreprenuers   -   $39.95

***Special Limited time offer***
Order 50,000 African American Email Addresses and receive 4,000
African American Entreprenuers for FREE. ($39.95 value)

CALL TOLL FREE TO ORDER - (800)305-1458

BSB Publishing Co.
151 First Avenue - #225
New York, NY 10003

All orders are shipped C.O.D.
$10.00 - Priority Mail Shipping
$12.00 - Overnight Shipping





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED SAT OCT 24 
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 07:57:39 -0700 (PDT)
To: (OVER 100 FREE PICS DAILY!)
Subject: 100S OF FREE PICS'N'LINKS EVERY DAY!
Message-ID: <19981024071000.27469.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


+ 30 SUPERB, HI-RES, HOT PHOTOS
+ 5 SUPER SEXY STORIES
+ INTIMATE PLEASURE
+ LESBIAN LIGHTNING
+ PINK PUSSY PICS
+ GRANNY SLUTS
+ JUST BLONDES NAKED
+ FINGER LICKIN' GOOD FREE PUSS
+ XXX CUM SLUTS
+ PORN WAVE
+ HOT BABES
+ THERE'S SOMETHING IN MARY
+ BONUS PIC 1 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/8100.htm
+ BONUS PIC 2 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/332.htm
+ BONUS PIC 3 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/22099.htm
+ BONUS PIC 4 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/24310.htm
+ BONUS PIC 5 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/6236.htm
+ MUCH, MUCH MORE!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----

If you haven't visited STUFFED in the last few days,  you're
in for a real treat.  It's faster than  ever before and now,
as a subscriber,  you get 35 FREE new pics  every day,  plus
over 100 more at carefully selected FREE sites we link to.

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 46224097@compwebtech.com
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 21:55:27 -0700 (PDT)
To: 123458@qqeioweisssiiie.com
Subject: Advertisement $99 Web Hosting
Message-ID: <199234233019.GAA08423@qqeioqeisssiiie.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Check it out! 25 megs for only $99 per year with no set up fees. Free registration or change of domain at: www.compwebtech.com

If you would like to be removed from our mailing list, please e-mail us to have yourself removed for the list.  

Thank You,

Larry@compwebtech.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: joy66@msn.com
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 21:40:56 -0700 (PDT)
To: joy66@msn.com
Subject: 3 Bet on your favorite NFL team!! 3
Message-ID: <199810243231CAA37474@Copmunet.stcum.qc.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Don, Ted:

I guess I owe you guys lunch. Who would have thought
the Vikings would beat Green Bay!!  Aaarghh!

Since you guys are so clever when it comes to picking
winners maybe you should put some money on the
line for Sunday's games!

I found a great new casino and sportsbook!!
Check it out!

Click Here

You can bet on college and NFL games at their
sportsbook or play blackjack, poker, craps, 
slots or baccarat in the casino.

Guys, its AWESOME. There's no software
to download and you can place your bets
by telephone OR over the Internet!!

Try it out. You can set yourself up on-line at:
http://www.rosieschalkisland.com

Dan

P.S. Call me crazy guys, but I actually bet on the
Vikings and made over $ 120.00 Thanks for the tip!!
Remember...                                               
http://www.rosieschalkisland.com

*****************************************                   





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED SUN OCT 25 
Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 02:42:58 -0800 (PST)
To: (OVER 100 FREE PICS DAILY!)
Subject: 100S OF FREE PICS'N'LINKS EVERY DAY!
Message-ID: <19981025071001.6878.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


+ 30 SUPERB, HI-RES, HOT PHOTOS
+ 5 SUPER SEXY STORIES
+ SNATCH LAND
+ ONLY EROTICA
+ PLAYSX
+ SEX HAPPY
+ MASTURB8
+ WHORES INC
+ MEGA THUMBNAILS
+ PASSION'S FREE PORN
+ FREE XXX PICTURES
+ HENTAI BIJUTU
+ BONUS PIC 1 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/2714.htm
+ BONUS PIC 2 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/11566.htm
+ BONUS PIC 3 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/3467.htm
+ BONUS PIC 4 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/6065.htm
+ BONUS PIC 5 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/2497.htm
+ MUCH, MUCH MORE!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----

If you haven't visited STUFFED in the last few days,  you're
in for a real treat.  It's faster than  ever before and now,
as a subscriber,  you get 35 FREE new pics  every day,  plus
over 100 more at carefully selected FREE sites we link to.

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: helloaol.com@mars.cableol.net
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 00:10:47 -0800 (PST)
To: norisk100@mars.cableol.net
Subject: Limited time offer!!!!
Message-ID: <199809011934.MAA11742@www20000.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


ADVERTISE TO OVER 100 MILLION PEOPLE FOR FREE!!! 

NOW YOU CAN ADVERTISE FREE AND GET DRAMATICALLY
MORE RESPONSES THAN ADVERTISING ON NATIONAL TELEVISION 

With E-mail your potential customer is forced to read at least the
headline of your letter.  Unlike TV, magazines, newspaper ads, and 
direct mail where more than 99.99% of the recipients will skip right
over your  advertisement. 


TURNS YOUR COMPUTER INTO A CASH REGISTER:  Conservative estimates indicate 
well over 100 MILLION people will have E-mail accounts in the next year!   
E-Mail  Platinum, turns your computer into a cash register by giving you 
FREE, immediate access to all of them. Do you think some of the more than 100 
million people with E-mail addresses would be interested in your products or 
services?  Even if you don't have your own products or services you can 
still make money buy promoting our computer software!!!
You can make money with our new software called E-MAIL PLATINUM

Here's how:
* By Using E-Mail To Sell Your Products & Services
* By Using E-Mail To Sell our Computer Software such as: Email Platinum, 
  Web Walker, Email Lock Box etc.
* By Renting or Selling Your E-mail Addresses  
* By Becoming A Distributor for E-Mail  Platinum  


MUCH FASTER:  With bulk E-mail you get responses back in 1 to 4 
days instead of waiting weeks or months like with television or print 
advertising. You can begin filling orders the same day you send E-mail.  


FREE ADVERTISING WORTH MILLIONS:  It costs millions of dollars to mail out 
millions of letters using the United States Postal Service!  Now you can 
send your ad to MILLIONS of people for FREE using E-Mail Platinum


E-MAIL PLATINUM IS ACTUALLY 4 PROGRAMS IN 1:  E-Mail Platinum is amazing new 
technology and the most advanced bulk E-mail software on the market today.   
(1) E-Mail Platinum automatically extracts E-mail addresses from America 
Online, Compuserve, Prodigy, and the other online services, the Internet, 
web pages, news groups, and hundreds of other sources.   (2) E-Mail Platinum
automatically stores the E-mail addresses in your computer along with 
keywords that describe hobbies and interests to created highly targeted 
E-mail addresses.   (3) E-Mail Platinum sends your marketing letter or ad to 
MILLIONS of targeted E-mail addresses at the push of a single button!  (4)
E-Mail Platinum cloaks the headers in your Email Message!!

EMAIL  PLATINUM V3.1 New Features: 

1. Personalize every email you send. Email Platinum will gather the name of 
the users in addition to the email address. For example: Your message will 
start with Dear John.

This feature will create more response to your email which in return means 
dollars in your pocket!

2. EMAIL PLATINUM will Gather 3 times faster than the orignal.
 Now you can gather thousands of email addresses in minutes rather than hours!!!

3. Randomizes your "from" field. EMAIL PLATINUM will randomize your "from" email
 address automatically to stop flamers from bombing your email box.

4. BCC's - EMAIL PLATINUM allows you to check to make sure your mail is getting 
through your mail servers. This feature will save you time and money!!! 
If your mail in NOT getting to the receipents you will lose potential business 
and waist your valuable time. Now with our new feature you will be able to 
verify every batch of email that is sent.

5. Assign a New POP account: EMAIL PLATINUM allows you to disconnect and 
reconnect automatically to your mail server every 100-1000 emails sent. This 
will insure that you have a steady connection while your sending email. 


HOW DOES E-MAIL Platinum WORK?  E-Mail Platinum has dozens of special filters 
to automatically harvest E-mail addresses from major online services such as: 
America OnLine, Compuserve,Delphi, Genie, and of course the internet.  

AOL AUTO EXTRACTOR:  E-Mail Platinum has many special features like the AOL 
Auto Extractor that let's you use a regular dial-up Internet connection to 
collect names and addresses from America Online. Collect America Online
addresses without being a member.  Allows you to download names and addresses
from America Online without paying membership fees or online charges. Auto 
Extractor for all of the online services and Special E-mail database search 
engines will also be available at no additional charge.

SIMPLE TO USE:  E-Mail Platinum does all the work for you.  Unlike other 
programs where you must cut & paste addresses, E-Mail Platinum does it for you 
automatically. And, unlike other E-mail programs, with E-Mail Platinum there 
is no need to purchase any additional software

SPEED:  Your time is important.  E-MAIL Platinum is DRAMATICALLY FASTER at 
extracting and sending E-mails than all the other programs on the market 
that we tested it against.

NO SPECIAL EQUIPMENT NEEDED: E-Mail Platinumr runs on a PC with Windows
3.xx Windows 95, Windows NT, a 386 or faster processor, 4 MB RAM, and a 
hard drive with at least 10 MB free and your own SLIP or PPP connetion
(almost any internet provider is all  that is needed)  No other software needed.
 Also runs on a Macintosh with SoftWindows installed.


******************************************************************
Send  YOUR  message like this one, using E-Mail Platinum.

E-Mail Platinum is The World's Leading Bulk E-mail software.
With E-Mail Platinum you can advertise to over 100 million people for FREE!

Cost:

 We are giving away Email Platinum FOR FREE, your only cost is $139.90 
For 25 Million and growing Email Addresses,  downloadable, and updated frequently 
from our web site, (A 395.00 Value all by itself)!

 You Must order before 11/15/98 ,  And Email Platinum is yours,  Absolutely FREE!!!!!!

THAT'S IT!!! 

Our company is in the software business of developing cutting edge products, so 
we know if you have the opportunity to use our software FREE you will be our future
customers.  We know we need you to make our software business a true success!
**************************************************************************************************************
We take Checks via Telephone, Fax , Email, or Snail Mail !!

If you would like to order , and take advantage of this opportunity, !! 
                                                                                                             
                                         Call us at,  760 779-0231

  Or just paste your check to this offer and fax to, 760-779-9571
                                                          
            PLEASE INCLUDE YOUR EMAIL ADDRESS WITH ORDER!!

You  will Receive 25 million downloadable "and updated Frequently"
addresses,(in easy to manage lists of 100,000 each) 

Plus FREE Email PLATINUM SOFTWARE to all orders prior to 11/15/98 

        Free Electronic Help!                             Free Tech Support by Phone!
 


                                







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: stockmarketupdate3kh23gkj@sprint.com
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 00:27:47 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: RE: URGENT BUY ALTER!
Message-ID: <00775282280626346@newyorknet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Company:  Mark I Industries
Symbol:   M K I I   (mkii)
Price:    1/2  ($.50/share)

M K I I  has announced an affiliation with one of 
their subsidiaries and AT&T.  Management projects
a $100 million revenue goal at their current rate
of growth with "the company's stock to trade in
the $4 range".

M K I I is rated an immediate and "STRONG BUY".
For more information on  M K I I go to:
http://quote.yahoo.com






...




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED MON OCT 26 
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 01:57:33 -0800 (PST)
To: (OVER 100 FREE PICS DAILY!)
Subject: 100S OF FREE PICS'N'LINKS EVERY DAY!
Message-ID: <19981026081000.29815.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


+ 30 SUPERB, HI-RES, HOT PHOTOS
+ 5 SUPER SEXY STORIES
+ THE FINEST SEX ON THE NET
+ HEAVY HANGERS
+ RAM AWAY
+ HIGH RENT
+ TALENT SEARCH
+ FREE XXX SMUT
+ KANDY'S LAND
+ MADAME XXX
+ RAW SEX STORIES
+ DIGITAL FANTASY
+ BONUS PIC 1 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/29871.htm
+ BONUS PIC 2 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/9615.htm
+ BONUS PIC 3 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/14096.htm
+ BONUS PIC 4 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/10271.htm
+ BONUS PIC 5 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/10892.htm
+ MUCH, MUCH MORE!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----

If you haven't visited STUFFED in the last few days,  you're
in for a real treat.  It's faster than  ever before and now,
as a subscriber,  you get 35 FREE new pics  every day,  plus
over 100 more at carefully selected FREE sites we link to.

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED TUE OCT 27 
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 09:17:00 -0800 (PST)
To: (OVER 100 FREE PICS DAILY!)
Subject: 100S OF FREE PICS'N'LINKS EVERY DAY!
Message-ID: <19981027081000.8504.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


+ 30 SUPERB, HI-RES, HOT PHOTOS
+ 5 SUPER SEXY STORIES
+ 3 XXX SLUT TOURS
+ SASHA'S DIRTY PIX
+ VIRTUAL SEX MACHINE
+ COUNTRY GIRLS
+ GALLERY XXX
+ WANKER ZONE
+ BUSTY BABES
+ INTIMATE PLEASURE
+ TABBY'S HOT BUFFET
+ BOOBLAND
+ BONUS PIC 1 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/24485.htm
+ BONUS PIC 2 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/20849.htm
+ BONUS PIC 3 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/28232.htm
+ BONUS PIC 4 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/24794.htm
+ BONUS PIC 5 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/7153.htm
+ MUCH, MUCH MORE!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----

If you haven't visited STUFFED in the last few days,  you're
in for a real treat.  It's faster than  ever before and now,
as a subscriber,  you get 35 FREE new pics  every day,  plus
over 100 more at carefully selected FREE sites we link to.

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StoneCold-PT 
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 11:04:56 -0800 (PST)
To: Chip Mefford 
Subject: unsubcribe
Message-ID: <19981027190410.17793.rocketmail@send1d.yahoomail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


unsubcribe




---Chip Mefford  wrote:
>
> 
> 
> Where possible, 
> 
> fuk a bunch of airlines anyway.
> 
> Travel by train is a lot more enjoyable, relaxing, fun.
> Folks that travel by train could fly, but would
> preferr to enjoy the ride, cause it ain't no cheaper, 
> 
> except, !!
> 
> you can pay with cash and show no id and go
> where you would like in the lower 48.
> 
> anonymously.
> 
> On Tue, 27 Oct 1998, Anonymous wrote:
> 
> > At 02:43 PM 10/26/98 -0400, Robert A. Costner wrote:
> > >At 01:15 PM 10/26/98 -0500, Duncan Frissell wrote:
> > >>9.  "I do not posses any government-issued photo ID and thus
cannot travel
> > >>to the location stated in the subpoena. 
> > >
> > >ROTFLMAO...
> > >
> > >This last one is too funny to not use.  I don't have a subpoena,
but I can
> > >just see myself writing back explaining this and requesting
assistance with
> > >a plane flight to solve this problem.
> > 
> > Actually you don't need state id to fly, legally.  But the
airlines will
> > hassle you and not put your bags aboard til you are.  There
> > are references on the net to flying without state id.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >   
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 

==
My Favorite Surfing Sites:

http://www.dilbert.com/ and http://www.nro.odci.gov/

"To keep you is no benefit; to destroy you is no loss"  by Thida Mam


_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "X" 
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 11:45:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Airline ID Checking (was: RE: your mail)
In-Reply-To: <19981027190715.184.rocketmail@send101.yahoomail.com>
Message-ID: <000001be01e2$296564a0$9c2580d0@ibm>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Does anyone know what the airlines do with the info they collect off the ID?
Are they just noting whether the names match, or is it more sinister?

When I was below legal drinking age (21 in my state) I would drive up to the
window (how barbaric!  liquor sales to guys in cars!) and give the
sub-moronic guy my REAL ID under the assumption that:  he expects it to say
something that proves I am over age, or else why would I be handing it to
him? [nicely enough, this shifts all of the risk of the transaction to him,
should it go wrong.]

Similarly, if you booked a flight under the name Nevah Umind, when you hand
over a piece of ID, they look to see it says Nevah Umind (unless, of course,
your name happens to be Nevah Umind) and that's all they want, right?

And if we all booked flights under the same name, then wouldn't that throw
'em WAY off?  Pick a name, DON'T scan your license in, DON'T edit it, DON'T
laminate it, and (for pete's sake!) DON'T use that name.  Their querying
will tell them, "I have a match, he's okay" (These are not the droids you
are looking for, eh!) and away you go!

X


~> -----Original Message-----
~> From: owner-cypherpunks@minder.net
~> [mailto:owner-cypherpunks@minder.net]On Behalf Of Joel O'Connor
~> I traveled by train all the way to Florida from Rhode Island once.  24
~> hours straight it took man and I swore I would never do it again.
~> 40-50 people per car and basically one bathroom per car.  Come morning
~> time man, the lines for the bathrooms stretched out of the cars.
~> Screw that, I could have flown and made it in 3 hours. Plus it's
~> easier for the gov't to stop trains and search them, I'd rather go
~> with the flight.
~>





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: listmaster@extensis.com
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 16:55:24 -0800 (PST)
To: undisclosed-recipients:;
Subject: Manage your Assets, Simplify your Life---- Extensis Portfolio 4.0
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Introducing the Newest Version of our Asset Management
Software-Extensis Portfolio 4.0
 http://www.extensis.com/products/Portfolio/


- Organize your assets -images, text, photos, multimedia- for
instant-access
- NEW! Import information from other databases
- NEW! Robust scripting now facilitates database and internet publishing
- NEW! Slideshow feature provides full-screen display of images
- NEW! Scalability with Portfolio Server 4.0 ensures lightening-fast
access for workgroups

Extensis Portfolio 4.0 and Portfolio Server 4.0 will help you manage and
organize your digital assets.  Digital assets include digital images,
artwork, presentations, multimedia, photos, or other graphic documents
that need to be organized and shared.

Extensis Portfolio 4.0 offers you a place to catalog, view, manage,
select, search and even share digital content among multiple users. 
Find the images you need, find them fast, share them with partners
around the globe all through your network or the Web with NEW
Portfolio 4.0 and Portfolio Server 4.0.

Create database fields that match your business with Portfolio's
unlimited custom fields.  Then, import your assets from other databases
for a centralized asset management system. With Portfolio's advanced
searching features, you will never hunt-and-peck for your images again.
And with Portfolio's built-in scripting you can automate regular tasks,
such as Internet and database publishing-in no time.

Portfolio 4.0 is the only scalable solution that allows you to start
with as few as one user (using the stand-alone client software) and add
more users (by adding additional clients; without requiring a server) as
your needs grow. 

For larger workgroups, the NEW Portfolio Server 4.0 will enable dozens
of users to access your assets without a loss of performance. Portfolio
Server can be inserted into a workgroup at any time, without the need to
replace the existing Portfolio 4.0 client (single-user) versions. 

Plus, the NEW Portfolio Server 4.0 arrives with 5 free copies of
Portfolio 4.0- a  value.

Streamline your work, build your assets, and simplify your life-Extensis
Portfolio 4.0

To download a FREE demo, get information, or to buy on-line, visit 
http://www.extensis.com/products/Portfolio/
Or call Extensis at 1(800) 796-9798 Ext. 404 or (503) 274-2020 Ext. 404.


Portfolio 4.0  System Requirements: 
Macintosh
Mac OS 7.5.3 - 8.5
PowerPC, 32 MB of RAM
Windows
Windows 95, 98 or NT 4.0
Pentium, 32 MB of RAM 

Portfolio Server 4.0 System Requirements
Windows 
Win NT 4.0, Pentium, 32 MB RAM
Macintosh
Macintosh version available late 1998

PS. We have made every effort to ensure this message is being sent only
to people who have expressed interest in Extensis products.  If we have
sent this to you in error, please accept our apologies and reply with
"REMOVE" in the subject line for automatic exclusion from future
communications.  If you know someone who would like to be on our mailing
list have them send an email to listmaster@extensis.com with "ADD" in the subject line and
their email address in the body.

P.P.S. This message is intended for North American customers.  If you
are located outside of North America and have received this message,
please visit  www.extensis.com/purchase/ to find the nearest local
distributor in your country.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED WED OCT 28 
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 11:47:17 -0800 (PST)
To: (OVER 100 FREE PICS DAILY!)
Subject: 100S OF FREE PICS'N'LINKS EVERY DAY!
Message-ID: <19981028081001.21320.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


+ 30 SUPERB, HI-RES, HOT PHOTOS
+ 5 SUPER SEXY STORIES
+ EROTIC VIXENS
+ PLAY SLUTS
+ WANNA CUM
+ HENTAI ANIME
+ WACK IT OFF
+ HIGH RENT
+ JAMHOLE
+ WET WET WEB
+ HIGH RENT
+ ADULT PLAY TOYS
+ BONUS PIC 1 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/19099.htm
+ BONUS PIC 2 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/32083.htm
+ BONUS PIC 3 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/9600.htm
+ BONUS PIC 4 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/6549.htm
+ BONUS PIC 5 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/3415.htm
+ MUCH, MUCH MORE!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----

If you haven't visited STUFFED in the last few days,  you're
in for a real treat.  It's faster than  ever before and now,
as a subscriber,  you get 35 FREE new pics  every day,  plus
over 100 more at carefully selected FREE sites we link to.

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: StoneCold-PT 
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 08:50:01 -0800 (PST)
To: Diederik Smets 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


unsubcribe




---Diederik Smets  wrote:
>
> IF the owner of the id also entered an internet password AND it is
the same
> as the one for the id file, then you can use brute force
(dictionairies) to
> try and crack it. Get the encrypted value in the
> properties>fields>HTTPPassword of the persons document in the PNAB and
> compare it to the results of the @password() function.
> 
> Alternatively, do a search for old id files which might still be
accessible
> with the 'default' password (if you know which one that is), but you
won't
> be able to access servers that have the 'check password' option
enabled.
> 
> If you need to access a local DB that has 'enforce a consistant ACL
across
> all replicas' enabled, just use another id and add that person's
name with
> the necessary roles to the ACL via LotusScript.
> 
> Diederik
> 
> 
> Hello
>      I'm using lotus notes and I have a big problem. I have a id
file with
> no
> password. How can I get a password for it or reset it. Is there some
type
> of
> utility or something someone knows of?I have been told that I'm out
of luck
> unless I have the original.
> 
> John...
> 
> 
> 

==
My Favorite Surfing Sites:

http://www.dilbert.com/ and http://www.nro.odci.gov/

"To keep you is no benefit; to destroy you is no loss"  by Thida Mam


_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 14:21:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <989.283923.888827 emergency@yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


10/28/98

Y2K  Solution!
8  Pine  Circle  Dr., Silicon  Valley, Calif.

OTC  Company  "TCFG"  21 st. Century  Frontier  Group  has
through  several  members  of  their  administrative  research
department  leaked  vital  information  about  their  companies  
efforts...

Everyone  was  tight  lipped  and  interviews  were  refused,
and  through  un-named  sources  we  have  learned  that  the  
technology  and  software  solution  are  in  the  process  of  
being  patented!

In over  1640  trials, using  various  data  systems  the  use  
of  the  new  technology  and  software  solved  the  Y2K
problem  100%  of  the  time. 

This  small  publicly  traded  company  "TCFG"  which  is  just
3  years  old  is  through  various  sources  now  negotiating
with  the  "Big  Boys"!

"TCFG"  the  letters  to  look  for!





 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Marti@cestel.es
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 21:33:12 -0800 (PST)
To: monty@monty-river.co.uk
Subject: Hi
Message-ID: < >
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Do you know what the number one factor is, that will determine whether your business is a
success or not?  ADVERTISING!  Effective conventional advertising is quite expensive.  So
what do you do?  Direct email is one of, if not thee most effective method of advertising in 
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the cost of traditional advertising.  The wave of future advertising is here, don't miss it.  We
will send your advert for you.  We have gone through painstaking methods to insure that we
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is create it.


250,000 addresses - $199
350,000 addresses - $250
500,000 addresses - $350
1 million addresses - $700 (HALLOWEEN SPECIAL 1 MILLION ONLY $500, OFFER
GOOD UNTIL OCTOBER 31ST)

For advertising to 3 million or more ask about our special rates.

For more information or to place an ad call us at (702) 294-7769 between the hours of 
11 am - 3 pm Pacific. Mon-Fri.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: listmaster@extensis.com
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 23:17:01 -0800 (PST)
To: undisclosed-recipients:;
Subject: Manage your Assets, Simplify your Life---- Extensis Portfolio 4.0
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Introducing the Newest Version of our Asset Management
Software-Extensis Portfolio 4.0
 http://www.extensis.com/products/Portfolio/


- Organize your assets -images, text, photos, multimedia- for
instant-access
- NEW! Import information from other databases
- NEW! Robust scripting now facilitates database and internet publishing
- NEW! Slideshow feature provides full-screen display of images
- NEW! Scalability with Portfolio Server 4.0 ensures lightening-fast
access for workgroups

Extensis Portfolio 4.0 and Portfolio Server 4.0 will help you manage and
organize your digital assets.  Digital assets include digital images,
artwork, presentations, multimedia, photos, or other graphic documents
that need to be organized and shared.

Extensis Portfolio 4.0 offers you a place to catalog, view, manage,
select, search and even share digital content among multiple users. 
Find the images you need, find them fast, share them with partners
around the globe all through your network or the Web with NEW
Portfolio 4.0 and Portfolio Server 4.0.

Create database fields that match your business with Portfolio's
unlimited custom fields.  Then, import your assets from other databases
for a centralized asset management system. With Portfolio's advanced
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And with Portfolio's built-in scripting you can automate regular tasks,
such as Internet and database publishing-in no time.

Portfolio 4.0 is the only scalable solution that allows you to start
with as few as one user (using the stand-alone client software) and add
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your needs grow. 

For larger workgroups, the NEW Portfolio Server 4.0 will enable dozens
of users to access your assets without a loss of performance. Portfolio
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To download a FREE demo, get information, or to buy on-line, visit 
http://www.extensis.com/products/Portfolio/
Or call Extensis at 1(800) 796-9798 Ext. 404 or (503) 274-2020 Ext. 404.


Portfolio 4.0  System Requirements: 
Macintosh
Mac OS 7.5.3 - 8.5
PowerPC, 32 MB of RAM
Windows
Windows 95, 98 or NT 4.0
Pentium, 32 MB of RAM 

Portfolio Server 4.0 System Requirements
Windows 
Win NT 4.0, Pentium, 32 MB RAM
Macintosh
Macintosh version available late 1998

PS. We have made every effort to ensure this message is being sent only
to people who have expressed interest in Extensis products.  If we have
sent this to you in error, please accept our apologies and reply with
"REMOVE" in the subject line for automatic exclusion from future
communications.  If you know someone who would like to be on our mailing
list have them send an email to listmaster@extensis.com with "ADD" in the subject line and
their email address in the body.

P.P.S. This message is intended for North American customers.  If you
are located outside of North America and have received this message,
please visit  www.extensis.com/purchase/ to find the nearest local
distributor in your country.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 02:28:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <989.283923.759256 research@hampton.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


                             10/29/98

Y2K  Solution!
8  Pine  Circle  Dr., Silicon  Valley, Calif.

OTC  Company  "TCFG"  21 st. Century  Frontier  Group  has
through  several  members  of  their  administrative  research
department  leaked  vital  information  about  their  companies  
efforts.

Everyone  was  tight  lipped  and  interviews  were  refused,
and  through  un-named  sources  we  have  learned  that  the  
technology  and  software  solution  are  in  the  process  of  
being  patented!

In over  1640  trials, using  various  data  systems  the  use  
of  the  new  technology  and  software  solved  the  Y2K
problem  100%  of  the  time. 

This  small  publicly  traded  company  "TCFG"  which  is  just
3  years  old  is  through  various  sources  now  negotiating
with  the  "Big  Boys"!

"TCFG"  the  letters  to  look  for!





 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 06:17:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <989.283923.519186 watcher@freeyellow.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


                             10/29/98

Y2K  Solution!
8  Pine  Circle  Dr., Silicon  Valley, Calif.

OTC  Company  "TCFG"  21 st. Century  Frontier  Group  has
through  several  members  of  their  administrative  research
department  leaked  vital  information  about  their  companies  
efforts.

Everyone  was  tight  lipped  and  interviews  were  refused,
and  through  un-named  sources  we  have  learned  that  the  
technology  and  software  solution  are  in  the  process  of  
being  patented!

In over  1640  trials, using  various  data  systems  the  use  
of  the  new  technology  and  software  solved  the  Y2K
problem  100%  of  the  time. 

This  small  publicly  traded  company  "TCFG"  which  is  just
3  years  old  is  through  various  sources  now  negotiating
with  the  "Big  Boys"!

"TCFG"  the  letters  to  look  for!





 
 
 
 
 
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED THU OCT 29 
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 17:07:51 -0800 (PST)
To: (OVER 100 FREE PICS DAILY!)
Subject: 100S OF FREE PICS'N'LINKS EVERY DAY!
Message-ID: <19981029081000.6342.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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+ BONUS PIC 5 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/32445.htm
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This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: kderby@bayoucity.com
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 08:27:56 -0800 (PST)
To: anna879083@aol.com
Subject: =?windows-1257?Q?<<<<<_CELEBRITY_WEB_SITE_=96_FAMOUS_OR_IMFAMOUS_?==?windows-1257?Q?=3F=3F_>>>>>?=
Message-ID: <862566AC.00553B3B.6C@genesis.bayoucity.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


A friend of mine asked me to send this web site to you. I hope you have as
much fun with it as I have!


www.celebritypctv.com






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ph11627@yahoo.com
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 14:19:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: about your site
Message-ID: <199811012206.OAA13547@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



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REMOVE INSTRUCTIONS

To be removed from our email list, please return 
this message with the word, "remove" (without 
quotes) in the subject line.
 
 
 
 
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: myfriends@compuserve.com
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 05:38:51 -0800 (PST)
To: myfriends@compuserve.com
Subject: Build a Web Site- Free test drive, tell a friend!
Message-ID: <75412325_68882773>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



----------------------------------------------------------------------
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: informant@freeyellow.com
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 18:44:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199810300244.SAA08298@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


10/29/98

Y2K  Solution!
8  Pine  Circle  Dr., Silicon  Valley, Calif.

OTC  Company  "TCFG"  21 st. Century  Frontier  Group  has
through  several  members  of  their  administrative  research
department  leaked  vital  information  about  their  companies  
efforts.

Everyone  was  tight  lipped  and  interviews  were  refused,
and  through  un-named  sources  we  have  learned  that  the  
technology  and  software  solution  are  in  the  process  of  
being  patented!

In over  1640  trials, using  various  data  systems  the  use  
of  the  new  technology  and  software  solved  the  Y2K
problem  100%  of  the  time. 

This  small  publicly  traded  company  "TCFG"  which  is  just
3  years  old  is  through  various  sources  now  negotiating
with  the  "Big  Boys"!

"TCFG"  the  letters  to  look  for...







  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: concerned@aol.com
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 05:25:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199810301318.FAA12335@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Oct.30th,1998

                       
Y2K  Solution!
8  Pine  Circle  Dr., Silicon  Valley, Calif.

OTC  Company  "TCFG"  21 st. Century  Frontier  Group  has
through  several  members  of  their  administrative  research
department  leaked  vital  information  about  their  companies  
efforts.

Everyone  was  tight  lipped  and  interviews  were  refused,
and  through  un-named  sources  we  have  learned  that  the  
technology  and  software  solution  are  in  the  process  of  
being  patented!

In over  1640  trials, using  various  data  systems  the  use  
of  the  new  technology  and  software  solved  the  Y2K
problem  100%  of  the  time. 

This  small  publicly  traded  company  "TCFG"  which  is  just
3  years  old  is  through  various  sources  now  negotiating
with  the  "Big  Boys"!

"TCFG"  the  letters  to  look  for!







  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED FRI OCT 30 
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 19:34:28 -0800 (PST)
To: (OVER 100 FREE PICS DAILY!)
Subject: 100S OF FREE PICS'N'LINKS EVERY DAY!
Message-ID: <19981030081000.10586.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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+ 5 SUPER SEXY STORIES
+ GOO GOO'S PLEASURE PALACE
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+ MASTURB8
+ INSTANT BONER
+ GIMMIE PORN
+ SEX PALADIUM
+ ADULT HUT
+ EXXXCEPTIONAL XXX PHOTOS
+ BONUS PIC 1 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/8327.htm
+ BONUS PIC 2 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/21783.htm
+ BONUS PIC 3 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/5104.htm
+ BONUS PIC 4 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/2827.htm
+ BONUS PIC 5 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/28707.htm
+ MUCH, MUCH MORE!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----

If you haven't visited STUFFED in the last few days,  you're
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This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: submit1500@mailexcite.com
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 17:57:23 -0800 (PST)
To: submit1500@mailexcite.com
Subject: RE:  November 1st
Message-ID: <199810300157.RAA07671@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 11:20:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <989.283923.236761 informant@earthlink.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


                            10/30/98

Y2K  Solution!
8  Pine  Circle  Dr., Silicon  Valley, Calif.

OTC  Company  "TCFG"  21 st. Century  Frontier  Group  has
through  several  members  of  their  administrative  research
department  leaked  vital  information  about  their  companies  
efforts.

Everyone  was  tight  lipped  and  interviews  were  refused,
and  through  un-named  sources  we  have  learned  that  the  
technology  and  software  solution  are  in  the  process  of  
being  patented!

In over  1640  trials, using  various  data  systems  the  use  
of  the  new  technology  and  software  solved  the  Y2K
problem  100%  of  the  time. 

This  small  publicly  traded  company  "TCFG"  which  is  just
3  years  old  is  through  various  sources  now  negotiating
with  the  "Big  Boys"!

"TCFG"  the  letters  to  look  for.....





 
 
 
 
 
 
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: info@innovativetx.com
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 12:36:17 -0800 (PST)
To: info@innovativetx.com
Subject: Company Press Release - Oct. 29
Message-ID: <199810301949.TAA06109@websites>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Thursday October 29, 12:55 pm Eastern Time
Company Press Release

SOURCE: Innovative Tracking Solutions Corp.
Innovative Tracking Solutions Joins Forces With Leading Medical Experts; Private Practice Protocols to be Introduced in 4th Qtr 1998

LAGUNA HILLS, Calif., Oct. 29 /PRNewswire/ -- Innovative Tracking Solutions Corp. (OTC Bulletin Board: IVTX - news) announced today that it has teamed up with three leading experts in three significant areas of expertise, Incontinence, Woundcare and Injury Prevention/Ergonomics to develop and implement three new protocols for the Private Practice(TM) Vibration Reminder System for specific applications of the product in their respective fields. 

The Private Practice(TM) Vibration Reminder Disk is worn on the body or in the pocket and automatically, consistently and silently vibrates at specific intervals throughout the day to prompt or remind patients to do their prescribed therapy regimen at home, work or wherever they may be. The product is currently being used in the healthcare industry for over 50 applications from post-surgical to biofeedback. 

``In addition to general rehabilitation, we have isolated three of the most significant and prevalent problems and situations in which our product has the most impact,'' stated Dianna Cleveland, president and CEO of Innovative Tracking Solutions. ``We are honored to have these well-known experts spearheading the development of these new protocols which will help professionals in these fields to more quickly and effectively implement the Private Practice(TM) system with their patients and clients.'' 

In Incontinence Therapy: Genevieve Messick, M.D., was an integral team member in the development of a behavioral incontinence program that is delivered in over sixty clinics throughout the country. The program carries an 80 percent success rate for eliminating incontinence symptoms in properly selected patients. Dr. Messick currently has her own practice, received her B.S. from John Caroll University in Cleveland, Ohio and graduated cum laude from Ohio State University College of Medicine in Columbus, Ohio. Dr. Messick has recently received a patent for a device for the treatment of pelvic floor dysfunction and she is a member of AOA (Alpha Omega Alpha -- a national medical honor society). 

``We are thrilled to have Dr. Messick's expertise and enthusiasm behind this project. She is a prominent and respected expert in her field and she clearly envisions the dramatic impact our product will have in addressing the problem of incontinence which afflicts more than 13 million Americans,'' stated Scott Postle, vice president, Healthcare Division of Innovative Tracking Solutions. ``Over 80 percent of cases of urinary incontinence can be cured or improved with proper training and compliance with Kegel exercise therapy. Private Practice(TM) is a natural extension to these therapies, including biofeedback.'' 

``After finding out about the Private Practice(TM) Vibration Reminder Disk, we immediately began prescribing the device to our patients,'' said Dr. Messick. ``We have had a positive response from our patients and I am excited about working with Innovative Tracking Solutions in developing this protocol.'' 

In Wound Care: Evonne Fowler, RN, CNS, CWOCN (Certified Wound Ostomy Continence Nurse), is President of Dynamic New Directions, an educational and consulting company in Banning, Calif. She is a Clinical Nurse Specialist in Gerontology having graduated from the UCLA School of Nursing. Ms. Fowler is currently in practice as a Wound/Skin Care Specialist at Kaiser Permanente Hospital, Bellflower, Calif., where she manages the Chronic Wound Care Center. She serves on the Editorial Board for Ostomy/Wound Management and chairs the Annual Advanced Wound Care Symposium sponsored by Health Management Publications, Inc., and is a founding board member and President of the newly formed Association for the Advancement of Wound Care (AAWC). The AAWC is a multidisciplinary organization whose mission is to facilitate optimal care for people with wounds. She is also a past member of the National Pressure Ulcer Advisory Panel (NPUAP). 

``Working with Evonne has been quite illuminating. Her 25 plus years in wound care nursing and vast knowledge of the challenges that exist in Ostomy/Wound Care today has been instrumental in developing our Wound Care Protocol,'' said Mr. Postle. 

``I'm a true believer in that preventing pressure ulcers is much easier than treating them once they develop. It's simply a matter of frequent and consistent repositioning or 'unweighting' throughout the day,'' stated Ms. Fowler. ``This little disk is so effective in prompting bedridden or wheelchair-bound patients to do this repositioning that I expect it to save the healthcare industry tremendous dollars in wound care!'' 

In Work Injury Prevention and Ergonomics: Michael S. Melnik, M.S., O.T.R., owner and president of Minneapolis-based Prevention Plus, Inc., has authored and co-authored several works on Cumulative Trauma Disorder (CTD), back injury and other current ergonomic related issues. He has consulted for firms such as Fluor Daniel, Pepsi-Cola, Wal-Mart and United Airlines, to name a just a few. Mr. Melnik is an Occupational Therapist with an advanced degree in exercise physiology from the University of Illinois. His area of expertise includes Employee Education/Training, Ergonomics Programs, Job Site Stretching and Warm-Up Programs. 

``Mr. Melnik's practical approach to injury prevention fits extremely well with our company philosophy. He is well respected in the industry and a very charismatic speaker which is sure to have the industry buzzing about our product,'' commented Cleveland. ``His knowledge and expertise will bring a pragmatic focus to the products' applications for all types of work environments for all types of companies.'' 

``I am excited at the Private Practice(TM) product and the possibilities it holds to compliment what has been my passion for the last 10 years; inviting positive changes in behavior,'' stated Mr. Melnik. ``At Prevention Plus, we are always looking for more ways to improve the work environment and to promote safety and awareness on the job. I truly believe the Private Practice(TM) system is a cutting edge solution that makes a great deal of sense for most companies today. I am confident that many will add this simple product to their existing injury prevention and ergonomic programs and that it will give growing companies the ''jump start`` they need to finally begin a program they can afford.'' 

Based in Laguna Hills, CA, Innovative Tracking Solutions innovates, designs, and develops sophisticated, yet simple products that have broad ranges of applications. The rapid growth of the company's Healthcare Products Division is a result of aggressive R&D and marketing, solid relationships with companies within the healthcare infrastructure, and a consistent focus on pioneering extensions to current healthcare services with a multitude of product applications. 

For more information regarding IVTX or the Private Practice(TM) Vibration Reminder Disk, call 1-888-4REMEMBER (473-6362) or visit the company's website: http://www.innovativetx.com or hyperlink http://www.privatepractice.com. 

SOURCE: Innovative Tracking Solutions Corp.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bjohnson@deskmail.com
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 17:18:20 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: ACCEPT CREDIT CARDS! WATCH SALES SOAR!
Message-ID: <199811010118.RAA15479@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED SAT OCT 31 
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 02:14:43 -0800 (PST)
To: (OVER 100 FREE PICS DAILY!)
Subject: 100S OF FREE PICS'N'LINKS EVERY DAY!
Message-ID: <19981031081000.639.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Dave Del Torto 
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 17:05:19 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks-announce@toad.com
Subject: ANNOUNCE: SF Bay Cypherpunks Mtg, Sat 10 Oct, Stanford
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Online version: 

October 1998  Physical Meeting

General Info:

  Sat 10 Oct
  1:00 - 5:00 PM
  Stanford University Campus (Palo Alto, California)
    - Tressider Union courtyard

   The October Physical Meeting of the San Francisco Bay Area Cypherpunks
   will be held on Saturday 10 October 1998 from 1-5 PM. This is an "Open
   Meeting on US Soil" and, as always, members of the Public are encouraged
   to attend.

Meeting Agenda:

 1:00-2:00
   Informal pre-meeting gathering

 2:00-5:00
   Agenda TBD on-the-fly at the meeting... Some suggestions:
   
   CIPHR'99 conference announcement
   MacCrypto'98 summary
   Yet Another Snake-Oil cluster-jerk. This month: "JAWS"
   "Software as Speech" discussion
   Review of Bruce Schneier's Review of TriStrata/TESS
   Cypherpunks/GNU/GPL License discussion
   PGP Keysigning session:
    - Bring a printout of your key's fingerprint/keyid/size + photoID
    - Load your key info into your Pilot or Newton for IR beaming

 5:00-?
   Dinner at a nearby restaurant usually follows the meeting.

Featured Speakers:

   (TBD)

Meeting Notes for Oct '98:

   The meeting will be shorter this month, because some cypherpunks were not
   ready to present, technical white-papers were not quite written (Nov) or
   the marketing weasels at a company-that-shall-remain-nameless were too 
   scared to show up. ;)
  
   MacCrypto'98 is being held this week nearby at Apple in Cupertino:
   several out-of-town cypherpunks are lurking. Therefore, it's extremely
   likely that agenda items will arise in realtime, so
   "you must be present to win."
  
   Because of the loose agenda, the meeting will begin slightly later than
   normal: 1:00 pm pre-meeting (instead of noon), 2:00 pm for the meeting.
  
   This is probably our last outdoor meeting for 1998.
  
   Unless I'm mistaken, this is our seven-year anniversary meeting(?).
  
Location Info:
  
   The meeting location will be familiar to those who've been to our outdoor
   meetings before, but for those who haven't been, it's on the Stanford 
   University campus, at the tables outside Tresidder Union, at the end of
   Santa Theresa, just west of Dinkelspiel Auditorium.
   We meet at the tables on the west side of the building, inside the 
   horseshoe "U" formed by Tresidder. Ask anyone on campus where Tressider
   is and they'll help you find it.
  
   Food and beverages are available at the cafe inside Tressider.

Location Maps:

   Stanford Campus (overview, Tresidder highlighted).
    http://www.stanford.edu/home/map/search_map.html?keyword=&ACADEMIC=Tresidder+Union
   Tresidder Union (zoomed detail view).
    http://www.stanford.edu/home/map/stanford_zoom_map.html?234,312
   Printable Stanford Map (407k).
    http://www.stanford.edu/home/visitors/campus_map.pdf




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: tony@starsnstripes.com
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 17:15:01 -0700 (PDT)
To: you@starsnstripes.com
Subject: Dental / Optical Plan 2 bucks a week
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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see: http://www.senate.gov/~murkowski/commercialemail/ EMailAmend Text.html  

To be removed   mailto:remove@unlimitd.com?subject=remove



Sean Davis
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Blue Springs MO 64015
1-800-447-1996






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 95959742@mailcity.com
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 00:50:06 -0700 (PDT)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: Accept Credit Cards Online!!!
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 21:14:19 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: TEMPEST laptops
In-Reply-To: <199810312353.SAA23037@camel7.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <199811011247.HAA19869@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



The rationale of the FOIA to NSA for TEMPEST docs is that
due to increased public awareness of that technology,
the manufacturers of classified TEMPEST products and 
services are chomping at the bit to sell them to a broader
public market -- as with other dual-use technology like
crypto.

We were asked to make the FOIA by those who've gotten
what they can from the many sources listed at Joel McNamara's
TEMPEST site -- which show that the market is growing but
is still hampered by classified restrictions:

   http://www.eskimo.com/~joelm/tempest.htm

Yes, it's improbably that NSA will release all the docs requested
but perhaps some will be shaken loose, again as with other
once classified technology like crypto. In part because of
rising public awareness, in part because of manufacturers'
desire, in part because NSA will have developed more 
advanced technology.

Tim has heretofore advised on TEMPEST measures and the
latest are useful, and correspond to what's available in the
commercial market and what is available in mil/gov pubs --
many listed at Joel's site.

We are working on our desktop model with a manufacturer
who supplies RF-protected glass for government and industry
rooms as well as for entire buildings. We figure that if we can
make a workable model, we'll be able to use to demonstrate
to our clients why TEMPEST protection is needed and how it
can be accomplished in an elegant design manner, paralleling
demonstrations used by the glass manufacturer to substantiate
claims for his products.

One of the many things that keeps techies from getting the public's
money is being unable to convince the buyer that the invention
is truly desirable. Thus comes the marketer, who has skills of
invention of another sort to charm the skeptical consumer that
this baby has got to be a part of his/her life -- like fancy homes,
medical care, insurance cars, clothing, foods, weapons, bibles, 
and, above all, national security.

So a mongerer's brew is needed to peddle these inessentials,
composed of seriousness, humor, terror, lies and pretended
guilelessness, the practices of anyone doing well or doing badly, 

indeed, humans going about whatever they do to fill up the void.

BTW, the best technology is nearly always going to be classified, 
with sky high prices paid for by gullible citizens to calm their 
manufactured terrors (the religion model, once churches and temples
now weapons and satellites; once the priest/architect hustle, now
that of the the NatSec wonk/scientist), so the commercial market is 
only going to offer less than the best, the declassified waste products, 
while selling it as "The Best."

So we're seeking the crumbs from the NatSec table. And will use
what we get or don't get in our marketing campaign, having learned
the immortally favorite scheme: a mix of fact, fiction and fixation
on getting people to trust the seller, not the always waste promise.

But Tim knows that, practices that like a master, makes bundles.
And I always take him seriously, believe everything he says, and
admire his deadpan sense of humor more than anything else. Been
threatened by him, too, if I don't, all in accord with the NatSec madness
of our era.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Emilio Oriente 
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 21:05:58 +0800
To: s.simpson@mia.co.uk
Subject: info PGP from France
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



The PGP 6.0 Manual is available in french
-----------------------------------------


The User's Guide of the cryptographic application PGP 6.0 (Windows version)
has been translated in french by some users from the newgroup
fr.misc.cryptologie.

The document is in Acrobat PDF format and can be downloaded freely at these
URL :


http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Bay/9648/intimite.htm

and soon mirrored on:


http://www.fortunecity.com/skyscraper/oracle/598/intimite.htm

PGP 6.0 freeware has been published in USA in the early september by
Network Associates, Inc. In spite of the US regulations prohibiting the
export of strong cryptography softwares, unknowns have exported PGP 6.0 in
Europe by email. The french is at this time the single language in which
the PGP 6.0 manual has been translated.

In the eyes of the french laws, the use of PGP 6.0 is prohibited on the
extent of the french territory. But his holding in France and his
importation from a country member of the European Union are perfectly legal.

(IMPORTANT : the text of this Manual stays the property of Network
Associates Inc. (NAI). NAI has not given his agreement for this
translation, which is provided by his authors only temporaly, waiting for
an official french version by NAI)






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 02:28:45 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: TEMPEST laptops
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 4:38 AM -0800 11/1/98, John Young wrote:

>Tim has heretofore advised on TEMPEST measures and the
>latest are useful, and correspond to what's available in the
>commercial market and what is available in mil/gov pubs --
>many listed at Joel's site.
>

Understand that my comments are just some "common sense with a little bit
of physics" estimates, not direct knowledge of how best to shield laptops.

I worked inside a Faraday cage for several months--a cube about 12 feet on
a side made up of two layers of fine copper mesh separated by about 2
inches. We used ordinary radios to check the seal. We entered the room with
the radio on, closed the copper-gasketed door and then checked the AM and
FM bands with the volume cranked up. If all was well, we didn't even get
"static," just the characteristic internal/thermal/Johnson noise of the
radio circuitry.

(We were looking for signals from a Josephson junction in SQUID
(superconducting quantum-interferometric device) that were very, very weak
compared to ambient radio noise levels. We used a Princeton Applied
Research 124 lock-in amplifier and a boxcar amplifier. I surmise that the
effective shielding was very good. This was in 1972-3.)

Later, at Intel, a lab right next to mine had a Faraday cage around it.

Anyway, were I to try to shield a laptop I'd start with microwave leakage
meters, a couple of t.v.s and radio (of different types and bands), and
then I'd start recording signal levels of various sorts as different
shielding layers and types were applied to the laptop(s). Simple lab stuff.

I'd do this in preference to worrying about what some 1978 government docs
had to say about the subject. TEMPEST the specs are probably a mixture of
"RF shielding" tips and standards, and a mix of Van Eck radiation tuner
designs.

>We are working on our desktop model with a manufacturer
>who supplies RF-protected glass for government and industry
>rooms as well as for entire buildings. We figure that if we can
>make a workable model, we'll be able to use to demonstrate
>to our clients why TEMPEST protection is needed and how it
>can be accomplished in an elegant design manner, paralleling
>demonstrations used by the glass manufacturer to substantiate
>claims for his products.

Suggestion: Read the client's laptop when he's visiting. Then show him your
stuff.

(This means you've built a working Van Eck decoder, which may be too much
to expect, per the above about concentrating on blocking the RF.)



>
>One of the many things that keeps techies from getting the public's
>money is being unable to convince the buyer that the invention
>is truly desirable. Thus comes the marketer, who has skills of
>invention of another sort to charm the skeptical consumer that
>this baby has got to be a part of his/her life -- like fancy homes,
>medical care, insurance cars, clothing, foods, weapons, bibles,
>and, above all, national security.

Look, let me put this bluntly:

VERY FEW PEOPLE CARE ABOUT SECURITY.

Most businessmen are not even using PGP. Why will any of them pay a lot of
extra money for something that makes their laptops look like gargoyles or
pieces of shit?

(This is for the travelling businessmen threat model. The corporate network
threat model is even more problematic, as it means the corporation needs to
TEMPEST-protect some large fraction of their desktop machines, with any
unprotected machines being the weak links. I don't understand which threat
model you're concentrating on, though.)

And your next paragraphs tell me you have even less chance of sellling your
product to corporate America:

>So a mongerer's brew is needed to peddle these inessentials,
>composed of seriousness, humor, terror, lies and pretended
>guilelessness, the practices of anyone doing well or doing badly,
>
>indeed, humans going about whatever they do to fill up the void.


>BTW, the best technology is nearly always going to be classified,
>with sky high prices paid for by gullible citizens to calm their
>manufactured terrors (the religion model, once churches and temples
>now weapons and satellites; once the priest/architect hustle, now
>that of the the NatSec wonk/scientist), so the commercial market is
>only going to offer less than the best, the declassified waste products,
>while selling it as "The Best."


??????

Is this a diagnosed medical condition, like Tourette's? You start out
communicating reasonably clearly, then, as usual, trail off into this
gobbledegook.

Pynchon's Syndrome?


--Tim May

Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash.
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Susan 
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 02:27:19 +0800
To: 
Subject: Mega Business Website $12.95  Free Setup - Resellers Wanted Advertisement
Message-ID: <419.436100.41581713 sales@megasites.jp-inc.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 10:39:27 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: TEMPEST laptops
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 12:26 PM -0800 11/1/98, Dave Emery wrote:
>On Sun, Nov 01, 1998 at 09:53:37AM -0800, Tim May wrote:
>>
>> Anyway, were I to try to shield a laptop I'd start with microwave leakage
>> meters, a couple of t.v.s and radio (of different types and bands), and
>> then I'd start recording signal levels of various sorts as different
>> shielding layers and types were applied to the laptop(s). Simple lab stuff.
>>
>
>	As someone who has actually spent hellish weeks working to
>suppress the RF emissions of some commericial network gear I designed -
>to make it pass FCC B and VDE certification - let me say this is a black
>art and no fun.  There are sophisticated electromagnetics programs that
>can sometimes succeed in modeling the radiation from a computer system,
>but they are very expensive and inputting all the required information
>is painful or downright impossible (data just not available or in a
>usable format), so this nasty job usually gets done seat of the pants
>style using rules of thumb and educated guesses and hard won experiance
>and lots of trial and error.  The job consists of attaching lossy
>ferrite beads, copper tape and other RF and common mode current supressing
>devices, shielding plastic packages with spray metallic coatings, adding
...

All good points, but there's a big difference between trying to meet FCC
emissions requirements for a commercial product that has to meet cost,
weight, and cosmetic requirements (e.g., a plastic case!), and the scenario
of making a TEMPEST-like box for a laptop. Ferrite beads and copper tape
are a lot different from a sealed box made of 10-gauge copper sheet.

>	Nobody does this using ordinary radios and TVs, the standard
>tool is a broadband spectrum analyzer or special EMC receiver with
>quasipeak filters and special calibrated wideband dipole antennas that
>have known gain and pattern characteristics.  Isolating of radiating
>sites is often done with near field probes or sniffers attached to the
>spectrum analyzer that allow hot spots to be tracked to within a few cm.
>Often in order to get enough sensitivity one also needs special
>preamps, and a RF quiet site where signals from the DUT aren't drowned
>out by pagers and cellphones and emissions from nearby computers.   A
>good bit of this work is done way out in the country under non-metallic
>fiberglass buildings that don't create reflections that confuse the
>measurements.   And conducted as opposed to radiated noise is measured
>with special power line filters and cable filters...

Sure, but my point was that John Young should *at least* start with actual
measurements, as opposed to putting most of the onus on a FOIA request to
get TEMPEST docs declassified.

If he can get spectrum analyzers and all that stuff, so much the better.


--Tim May

Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash.
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 06:57:53 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Kong Re: Using a password as a private key.
In-Reply-To: <199810291821.TAA03804@replay.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981101134444.008adae0@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



		(James - bug report below.)
At 07:21 PM 10/29/98 +0100, Anonymous wrote:
>What happens if you create another key which signs an existing message,
>as was illustrated here recently in the case of Toto's key.  Can you
>convince Kong that you are the same person who sent the earlier message?

No, you can't.  I've got some sample Kong documents below.
(Be sure to get the US version of Kong from http://catalog.com/jamesd/kong/
rather than the somewhat older version from replay (which you get
if you tell James's page you're not a US/Canadian citizen.
Some UnAmerican should hack their way through James's protection
and update replay's version.))

If you check the signature on a document identical to one
you've already got stored, it'll tell you about it, and list
all the usernames that have signed that document.

When you try to store a second key with the same name as an existing key,
it'll tell you that they're different, and let you add a note to the new one.
(Unfortunately, it doesn't also let you add a note to the first one;
a nice feature change would be to always ask for notation when
receiving a new key.)  

(It's a bit hard to test on one machine, since you tend to step
over yourself in the process, but it should work fine in a clean environment,
and Kong is very tolerant of having its Kong.mdb file blown away
and doesn't even mind some editing using MS Access, though YMMV.)


Signed by one key calling itself t3 - note the +Q in the first line
    --
It's a fnord!  Run for your life!
    --digsig
         t3
     +Q+XF9EiiOOGFa6rYr5QtU2My14/KyO01DHLikYDVv
     Fy1GfdEmmV07XfX9R3HEOc/BA+ajNa8/MRqDBhE1
     4eLHEngilBC2g81hloGGQFmOYd35vQEHKGtBcb4F9

Signed by a different key calling itself t3 - note the H9 in the first line
    --
It's a different fnord!
    --digsig
         t3
     H9/V3rBrv7Ha3g0Z1/ywvbHimgezshgcTzSYJxbS4z
     nCRf3S7brCpkLPzUD+dSFcErPNB+SdrF0q46TZnH
     4YHfVOu6q+51iKrRc3ru63qk1wWCR2uR3wCALQRjs

Same document as before, signed by the H9 t3
    --
It's a fnord!  Run for your life!
    --digsig
         t3
     H9/V3rBrv7Ha3g0Z1/ywvbHimgezshgcTzSYJxbS4z
     z662iY5op2nMkXrI7nP4A5ehgvaoB5+q5daHbHgl
     4NmZf3tZdVcZObpUmovyAeDBMZr1W9t5lDICMJc8b


Kong lets you sign a document in different modes -
in one mode, the document can't be modified after signing,
and in other modes you can change whitespace or linebreaks,
making it more tolerant of different email environments.

    --
This message didn't have any line breaks, 
and it's in Text mode.
    --digsig
         t3
     H9/V3rBrv7Ha3g0Z1/ywvbHimgezshgcTzSYJxbS4z
     aAGTQyJ92R6XeoH7ZTepQ0f79xKddgm+bsIfLckn
     4+WLznhaXWAf7fX0yay4Ajq6Bg+AGQo0T8r8aWbJ2

    --
This message didn't have any line breaks,  
and it's in Strict mode, 
so this should fail.
    --digsig
         t3
     H9/V3rBrv7Ha3g0Z1/ywvbHimgezshgcTzSYJxbS4z
     /6YbckVZQdSNbu4DSbrIjXRmu2wU8IiiXP3LnyUn
     2I/gQ5Uq5+42xQYfLxCbDM+YwowNgkBFXlfPvfIYK

By the way, you don't want to hit the "view" button
after checking this one - you'll get 
Run-Time Error 3021 - No current Record
and then Kong dies.


				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 06:57:53 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: TEMPEST laptops
In-Reply-To: <199810312353.SAA23037@camel7.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981101142536.008aee30@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 08:19 PM 10/31/98 -0800, Tim May wrote:
>At 3:44 PM -0800 10/31/98, John Young wrote:
> > Not to beat an NDA horse but while we're waiting for NSA to
> > process our FOIA request for TEMPEST docs, are there
> > products available to shield a desktop box, or better, a laptop?
>I haven't been following this FOIA request for TEMPEST docs. It seems
>pointless, for several reasons:
>1. No doubt a lot of stuff will be classified, and FOIA can't break
>classification, generally.

Yup.   Most of it's SECRET COMSEC or CONFIDENTIAL COMSEC.
The parts I'm aware of cover making equipment not radiate,
blocking radiation that does occur, and making sure signals
don't leak between the red and black sides.  There's presumably
much more secret documentation at NSA about how to spy on stuff,
and there's no way you'll get any of that.

>2. The physics is what's important, not TEMPEST specs on specific pieces
>of equipment the government may be using, etc.

That too.  TEMPEST, like other security problems,
depends a lot on your threat models - you need a lot quieter equipment
if there's an NSA Antenna Van parked in your driveway
than if you're out in an empty field with nobody around for miles.
What the equipment specs tell you is what the military thinks
is adequate protection for typical threat environments,
such as defense contractor office buildings or low-tech battlefields.

The last time I checked, which was 8-10 years ago,
there was a lot of TEMPEST-certified equipment on the market,
though many of the vendors would only sell to the government
and businesses working on TEMPEST-requiring government contracts.

The main things on the market back then were
- Room/building enclosure technology, so you could put lots of
regular computer equipment in a big shielded room.
This includes heavy-duty filtering of power supplies;
our equipment was quite happy with it's nice clean power feeds.
- Shielded minicomputers - basically stuck in rack-sized versions
of room enclosures, with fiber-optic comm lines or shielded cables.
- Quiet PCs, which generally had heavier metal cases, shielded cables,
rather heavy keyboards, and lots of shielding in the monitors.
They tended to cost about $5000 more than the equivalent non-TEMPEST PC.

I don't know how the market is today, but it's probably a LOT more work
to quiet and/or shield a 400MHz Pentium2 than a 4.77Mhz 8086 -
higher frequency signals have shorter wavelengths, so they can
leak through smaller holes, and the newer Pentiums probably put out a
lot more energy above 3GHz than 8086s did, which means that
centimeter-long cracks can leak signals.

At the time, the rule of thumb for room shielding was that you
wanted 100dB attenuation; the actual specs were
more complex than that, and presumably classified.
We did our routine measurements using a 450MHz transmitter, 
which would let us find any leaks that evolved from wear&tear
on our doors or wiring mistakes on our comm or power gear
(like forgetting to screw some lid on tight enough),
but the TEMPEST contractors did the official complex measurements.
This was a significant change from Vietnam-era shielding,
which was typically copper mesh that provided 60dB attenuation

Just using a regular laptop isn't enough; I've seen laptops
transmit recognizable images to a television (though I was probably
using AC power rather than batteries, and may or may not have had
the display mode set to LCD-and-monitor.)


				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Dave Emery 
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 05:14:26 +0800
To: Tim May 
Subject: Re: TEMPEST laptops
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <19981101152627.C29091@die.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Sun, Nov 01, 1998 at 09:53:37AM -0800, Tim May wrote:
> 
> Anyway, were I to try to shield a laptop I'd start with microwave leakage
> meters, a couple of t.v.s and radio (of different types and bands), and
> then I'd start recording signal levels of various sorts as different
> shielding layers and types were applied to the laptop(s). Simple lab stuff.
> 

	As someone who has actually spent hellish weeks working to
suppress the RF emissions of some commericial network gear I designed -
to make it pass FCC B and VDE certification - let me say this is a black
art and no fun.  There are sophisticated electromagnetics programs that
can sometimes succeed in modeling the radiation from a computer system,
but they are very expensive and inputting all the required information
is painful or downright impossible (data just not available or in a
usable format), so this nasty job usually gets done seat of the pants
style using rules of thumb and educated guesses and hard won experiance 
and lots of trial and error.  The job consists of attaching lossy
ferrite beads, copper tape and other RF and common mode current supressing
devices, shielding plastic packages with spray metallic coatings, adding
screws and other fasteners to bond stuff together better, changing
grounding around within the box to put RF currents in places they don't
get to the outside of the package, use of  ICs that switch more
softly, adding filters to connectors for external cables, changing
layout of PC boards to better shield hot traces, changing the shape of
the metal chassis to act as a better shield and ground plane  and so
forth.  And unless one has access to the best modeling programs, predicting
exactly what a given change will do is a really obscure art...

	Nobody does this using ordinary radios and TVs, the standard
tool is a broadband spectrum analyzer or special EMC receiver with
quasipeak filters and special calibrated wideband dipole antennas that
have known gain and pattern characteristics.  Isolating of radiating
sites is often done with near field probes or sniffers attached to the
spectrum analyzer that allow hot spots to be tracked to within a few cm.
Often in order to get enough sensitivity one also needs special
preamps, and a RF quiet site where signals from the DUT aren't drowned
out by pagers and cellphones and emissions from nearby computers.   A
good bit of this work is done way out in the country under non-metallic
fiberglass buildings that don't create reflections that confuse the
measurements.   And conducted as opposed to radiated noise is measured
with special power line filters and cable filters...

	The magic of the NSA TEMPEST specs lies in exactly how much
certain emissions must be suppressed to lie below useful detectablity
thresholds at some reasonable distance.  And much of the classified trickery
resides in exactly what sorts of things have been shown to carry
useable information and at what field strength that information can be
extracted and under what conditions it is not usable.  And because of
the repetitious nature of many information bearing spurious emanations,
there is some signficant emphasis on corellation and averaging out noise
techniques...

	

-- 
	Dave Emery N1PRE,  die@die.com  DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass. 
PGP fingerprint = 2047/4D7B08D1 DE 6E E1 CC 1F 1D 96 E2  5D 27 BD B0 24 88 C3 18




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Weekly Update 
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 00:38:04 +0800
To: ListBot Member 
Subject: You have been added to Weekly Update
Message-ID: <909936171.25805.qmail@ech>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 00:16:42 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: info PGP from France
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199811011544.QAA25390@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



  > The PGP 6.0 Manual is available in french

Y'know, I have yet to see a rational (non-marketing-speak) explanation
of the advantages of switching to PGP 6.0...

PGP 5.x appears to have no advantages over 2.6x, but when Windoze
users began to "upgrade" to it, we had to rewrite our mailing list
code, as -- of course -- it's mostly incompatible with 2.6x.

Its other primary features -- public keys the size of Mack trucks,
dog-slow decryption rates, and more complicated key management --
hardly count as advantages.

So what's 6.0 got?  Total incompatibility with previous versions?
10 MB executables?  An additional bloatware serving "on the side"?

Pah!  It looks as if PGP today has more in common with Micro$oft Turd
than the nice little "privacy for the masses" programme Phil wrote.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 07:34:48 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: H-WEB: De Long on Scott, Planning & Hayek
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Date:         Sun, 1 Nov 1998 01:37:43 EST
Reply-To: Hayek Related Research 
Sender: Hayek Related Research 
From: Hayek-L List Host 
Subject:      H-WEB: De Long on Scott, Planning & Hayek
To: HAYEK-L@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU
Status: U

>>  Hayek On The Web  <<   --   Modernism  /  Government Planning

J. Bradford De Long, "Not Seeing One's Intellectual Parents"

On the Web at:

http://econ161.berkeley.edu/Econ_Articles/Reviews/Seeing_Like_a_State.html


>From the review:

"There is a lot that is excellent in James Scott's _Seeing Like a State_.  It
begins with a romp through eighteenth- and nineteenth-century German
forestry--and the failure of the foresters to understand the ecology of the
forests that they were trying to manage.  It continues with a brief digression
on how states tried to gain control of their populations through maps,
boulevards, and names.  These are prequels to a vicious and effective critique
of what Scott calls "high modernism": the belief that the planner--whether Le
Corbusier designing a city, Vladimir Lenin designing a planned economy, or
Julius Nyerere "villagizing" the people of Tanzania--knows best, and can move
humans and their lives around on as if on a chessboard to create utopia.

Then the focus appears to waiver.  There is a chapter on agriculture in
developing economies that characterizes agricultural extension efforts from
the first to the third world as analogous to Lenin's nationalization of
industry, or Nyerere's forced resettlement of Tanzanians.  But the targets --
the agricultural extenders who dismiss established practices -- lose solidity
and become shadows. They are no longer living, breathing, powerful rulers,;
instead they are the "credo of American agriculture," the "catechism of high-
modernist agriculture," the "high-modernist aesthetic and ideology of most
colonial trained agronomists and their Western-trained successors" -- truly
straw men.

The conclusion is a call for social systems that recognize the importance of
what Scott calls "metis": a Greek word for the practical knowledge that a
skilled and experienced worker has of his craft.  Most such practical
knowledge cannot be easily summarized and simple rules, and much of it remains
implicit: the devil is in the details. T he key fault of "high modernism," as
Scott understands it, is its belief that details don't matter -- that planners
can decree from on high, people obey, and utopia result.

Well before the end of the book an economist is struck by a strong sense of
deja vu. Scott's declarations of the importance of the detailed practical
knowledge possessed by the person-on-the-spot -- of how such knowledge cannot
be transmitted up any hierarchy to those-in-charge in a way to do any good--of
how the locus of decision-making must remain with those who have the craft to
understand the situation--of how any system that functions at all must create
and maintain a space in which there is sufficient flexibility for craftsmen to
exercise their metis (even if the hierarchs of the system pretend not to
notice this flexibility)--all of these strike an economist as very, very
familiar.

All of these seem familiar to economists because they are the points made by
Ludwig von Mises (1920) and Friedrich Hayek (1937) and the other Austrian
economists in their pre-World War II debate with socialists over the
possibility of central planning.  Hayek's adversaries--Oskar Lange and
company--argued that a market system had to be inferior to a centrally-planned
system: at the very least, a centrally-planned economy could set up internal
decision-making procedures that would mimic the market, and the central
planners could also adjust things to increase social welfare and account for
external effects in a way that a market system could never do.  Hayek, in
response, argued that the functionaries of a central-planning board could
never succeed, because they could never create both the incentives and the
flexibility for the people-on-the-spot to exercise what Scott calls metis.

Today all economists--even those who are very hostile to Hayek's other
arguments (that government regulation of the money supply lies at the root of
the business cycle, that political attempts to reduce inequalities in the
distribution of income lead to totalitarianism, that the competitive market is
the "natural spontaneous order" of human society) -- agree that Hayek and
company hit this particular nail squarely on the head.  Looking back at the
seventy-year trajectory of Communism, it seems very clear that Hayek (and
Scott) are right: that its principal flaw is its attempt to concentrate
knowledge, authority, and decision-making power at the center rather than
pushing the power to act, the freedom to do so, and the incentive to act
productively out to the periphery where the people-on-the-spot have the local
knowledge to act effectively.

In short, by the end of his book James Scott has argued himself into the
intellectual positions adopted by Friedrich Hayek back before World War II.
Yet throughout the book Scott appears to be ignorant that the intellectual
terrain which he has reached has already been well-explored.

This is quite distressing ... "

J. Bradford De Long, "Not Seeing One's Intellectual Parents".  Review of
James Scott (1998), _Seeing Like a State: How Certain Schemes to Improve the
Human Condition Have Failed_. (New Haven: Yale University Press).   7/4/1998

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--

References

Peter Boettke (1990), The Political Economy of Soviet Socialism (Boston:
Kluwer Academic Publishers: 0792391004).

Friedrich Hayek, ed. (1935), Collectivist Economic Planning: Critical Studies
on the Possibility of Socialism (London: Routledge: 0678007659).

Friedrich Hayek (1937), "Economics and Knowledge," Economica 4, pp. 33-54.

Friedrich Hayek (1945), "The Use of Knowledge in Society," American Economic
Review 35, pp. 519-30.

Frank Knight (1936), "The Place of Marginal Economics in a Collectivist
System," American Economic Review 26:2, pp. 255-6.

Abba Lerner (1934), "Economic Theory and Socialist Economy," Review of
Economic Studies 2, pp. 51-61.

James Scott (1998), Seeing Like a State: How Certain Schemes to Improve the
Human Condition Have Failed (New Haven: Yale University Press: 0300070160).

Ludwig von Mises (1920), "Die Wirtschaftsrechnung im sozialistischen
Gemeinwesen," Archiv fur Sozialwissenschaften und Sozialpolitik 47:1, pp.
86-121."

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--


Professor of Economics J. Bradford De Long, 601 Evans Hall, #3880
University of California at Berkeley
Berkeley, CA 94720-3880
(510) 643-4027 phone (510) 642-6615 fax
delong@econ.berkeley.edu
http://econ161.berkeley.edu/




Hayek On The Web is a regular feature of the Hayek-L list.

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 09:52:15 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: NOT the Orange Book
Message-ID: <199811020104.UAA18004@camel8.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Paul Merrill, the author of "NOT the Orange Book," has
provided a digital version of his "Guide to the Definition, 
Specification, Tasking, and Documentation for the 
Development of Secure Computer Systems -- Including 
Condensations of the Members of the Rainbow Series 
and Related Documents:" 

   http://jya.com/ntob.htm  (385K)

Zipped:

   http://jya.com/ntob.zip  (92K)

This is Paul's 1992 manual prepared while working for 
DoD to evaluate and purchase secure computer systems,
for ADP, C4I and weapons, and to compensate for the 
shortcomings of the official regulations. 

It's still widely used, Paul says, for the unending conflict 
between DoD, NSA, DIA and defense contractors about
how to develop and assure computer security from lab rat
pipedream to the warfighter's "wha's this piece of shit."

Section IV, Case Studies, is a wonder at describing what
to do when perfect design goes to hell in the field, and a 
pissed warrior who's comm's been compromised got a 
K-Bar sawing your apple, roaring "tech support, now!"






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Paul H. Merrill" 
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 10:13:33 +0800
To: John Young 
Subject: Re: NOT the Orange Book
In-Reply-To: <199811020104.UAA18004@camel8.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <363D3654.AA1AF05E@sprynet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



While I perhaps would not have phrased things in quite the same colorful
manner, John Youngs commentary here is substantially correct.  The
intent however was to hellp the developers develop systems that would
preclude the need for K-Bars.

PHM

John Young wrote:
> 
> Paul Merrill, the author of "NOT the Orange Book," has
> provided a digital version of his "Guide to the Definition,
> Specification, Tasking, and Documentation for the
> Development of Secure Computer Systems -- Including
> Condensations of the Members of the Rainbow Series
> and Related Documents:"
> 
>    http://jya.com/ntob.htm  (385K)
> 
> Zipped:
> 
>    http://jya.com/ntob.zip  (92K)
> 
> This is Paul's 1992 manual prepared while working for
> DoD to evaluate and purchase secure computer systems,
> for ADP, C4I and weapons, and to compensate for the
> shortcomings of the official regulations.
> 
> It's still widely used, Paul says, for the unending conflict
> between DoD, NSA, DIA and defense contractors about
> how to develop and assure computer security from lab rat
> pipedream to the warfighter's "wha's this piece of shit."
> 
> Section IV, Case Studies, is a wonder at describing what
> to do when perfect design goes to hell in the field, and a
> pissed warrior who's comm's been compromised got a
> K-Bar sawing your apple, roaring "tech support, now!"




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 23:23:37 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: TEMPEST laptops
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 12:26 PM -0800 11/1/98, Dave Emery wrote:
>On Sun, Nov 01, 1998 at 09:53:37AM -0800, Tim May wrote:
>>
>> Anyway, were I to try to shield a laptop I'd start with microwave leakage
>> meters, a couple of t.v.s and radio (of different types and bands), and
>> then I'd start recording signal levels of various sorts as different
>> shielding layers and types were applied to the laptop(s). Simple lab stuff.
>>
>
>	As someone who has actually spent hellish weeks working to
>suppress the RF emissions of some commericial network gear I designed -
>to make it pass FCC B and VDE certification - let me say this is a black
>art and no fun.  There are sophisticated electromagnetics programs that
>can sometimes succeed in modeling the radiation from a computer system,
>but they are very expensive and inputting all the required information
>is painful or downright impossible (data just not available or in a
>usable format), so this nasty job usually gets done seat of the pants
>style using rules of thumb and educated guesses and hard won experiance
>and lots of trial and error.  The job consists of attaching lossy
>ferrite beads, copper tape and other RF and common mode current supressing
>devices, shielding plastic packages with spray metallic coatings, adding
...

All good points, but there's a big difference between trying to meet FCC
emissions requirements for a commercial product that has to meet cost,
weight, and cosmetic requirements (e.g., a plastic case!), and the scenario
of making a TEMPEST-like box for a laptop. Ferrite beads and copper tape
are a lot different from a sealed box made of 10-gauge copper sheet.

>	Nobody does this using ordinary radios and TVs, the standard
>tool is a broadband spectrum analyzer or special EMC receiver with
>quasipeak filters and special calibrated wideband dipole antennas that
>have known gain and pattern characteristics.  Isolating of radiating
>sites is often done with near field probes or sniffers attached to the
>spectrum analyzer that allow hot spots to be tracked to within a few cm.
>Often in order to get enough sensitivity one also needs special
>preamps, and a RF quiet site where signals from the DUT aren't drowned
>out by pagers and cellphones and emissions from nearby computers.   A
>good bit of this work is done way out in the country under non-metallic
>fiberglass buildings that don't create reflections that confuse the
>measurements.   And conducted as opposed to radiated noise is measured
>with special power line filters and cable filters...

Sure, but my point was that John Young should *at least* start with actual
measurements, as opposed to putting most of the onus on a FOIA request to
get TEMPEST docs declassified.

If he can get spectrum analyzers and all that stuff, so much the better.


--Tim May

Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash.
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Lucky Green 
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 05:38:40 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: info PGP from France
In-Reply-To: <199811011544.QAA25390@replay.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Sun, 1 Nov 1998, Anonymous wrote:

> 
>   > The PGP 6.0 Manual is available in french
> 
> Y'know, I have yet to see a rational (non-marketing-speak) explanation
> of the advantages of switching to PGP 6.0...

You should read Cypherpunks more regularly. This is what I posted in the
past:

Quick PGP 6 eval
===============

Long desired features:
o Designated revokers (If you are incapacitated/incarcerated).
o Secret shared keys (A must for corporate root keys).

Gimmick:
o You can attach a photo to your key.  

Still not there:
o Ability to revoke individual user ID's on a key.

-- Lucky Green  PGP v5 encrypted email preferred.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 23:15:49 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: TEMPEST laptops
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981101142536.008aee30@idiom.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 5:32 PM -0800 11/1/98, Lucky Green wrote:
>On Sun, 1 Nov 1998, Bill Stewart wrote:
>[...]
>> Just using a regular laptop isn't enough; I've seen laptops
>> transmit recognizable images to a television (though I was probably
>> using AC power rather than batteries, and may or may not have had
>> the display mode set to LCD-and-monitor.)
>
>Thanks for touching on the popuar myth that laptops radiate less than
>CRT's. Many laptops in fact radiate more compromising emissions than
>CRT's. Ross Anderson does his van Eck demos to undergrads using a laptop,
>because it works so much better than CRT's.

But laptops are certainly smaller than desktops + monitors are, and can be
run off of batteries. This makes laptops better candidates for a sealed box
commercial product.

--Tim May

Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash.
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 23:15:39 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Computers as instruments of liberation
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



"Wired News" carried an article reporting on a plan to  (somehow) spread
computers around the world, blah blah, and quoting John Gage at Sun on how
this would promote peace.

A couple of paragraphs have Cypherpunks resonances"

--begin excerpt--

Conference tackles ``techno-inequality''

By Judy DeMocker

SAN FRANCISCO (Wired) - When US farmers can call their cows home
individually using animal pagers, but the average teenager in Burkina Faso
has never made a
.....
Wiring developing nations could have some far-reaching consequences. One
might be that computer-based communications would be used to keep the
peace, according Net
Day co-founder John Gage, who works by day as Sun Microsystems' chief
scientist. When content from The New York Times can be translated into 30
Arab dialects, for
example, or when a remote Rawandan village has access to more perspectives
than the local magistrate, the Internet may become an instrument in
preventing violence.

``The Web gives people access to other voices, and instant access to
speaking about how the world really is,'' said Gage. ''If people can get
that, maybe that band of villagers
will think twice before going down the road and killing its neighbors.''

--end excerpt--

Fatuous nonsense. After all, those folks down the road may be taxing them,
and may need killing. Or those folks may use computer networks to connect
to others for the purposes of liberation.

I see computer networks as promoting secessionism, freedom fighting, and
resistance in general.

The New World Order, the One Worlders, see this as "terrorism."

Which is why strong encryption is needed. Which is why "they" oppose strong
encryption.

John Gage has a typically Fabian socialist view that somehow
computerization will lead to an orderly, peaceful world.

Me, I view networks as  the key to retribution and justice.

--Tim May


Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash.
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Jean-Francois Avon" 
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 23:23:11 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks" 
Subject: [humor] Testing software
Message-ID: <199811020422.XAA11460@cti06.citenet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




A friend of mine sent me the following:

We are in the process of testing the new piece of software we designed:


> AGGRESSION TESTING: If this doesn't work, I'm gonna kill somebody.
> 
> COMPRESSION TESTING:  []
> 
> CONFESSION TESTING: Okay, Okay, I did program that bug.
> 
> CONGRESSIONAL TESTING:  Are you now, or have you ever been a bug?
> 
> DEPRESSION TESTING: If this doesn't work, I'm gonna kill myself.
> 
> EGRESSION TESTING: Uh-oh, a bug... I'm outta here.
> 
> DIGRESSION TESTING: Well, it works, but can I tell you about my truck...
> 
> EXPRESSION TESTING: #@%^&*!!!, a bug.
> 
> OBSESSION TESTING: I'll find this bug if it's the last thing I do.
> 
> OPPRESSION TESTING:  Test this now!
> 
> POISSON TESTING:  Alors!  Regardez le poisson!
> 
> REPRESSION TESTING: It's not a bug, it's a feature.
> 
> SECESSION TESTING: The bug is dead!  Long live the bug!
> 
> SUGGESTION TESTING: Well, it works but wouldn't it be better if...

Added by JFA:

DELUSION TESTING: Naahhhh, don't loose any time doing any testing, it'll 
work...


Jean-Francois Avon, B.Sc. Physics, Montreal, Canada
  DePompadour, Société d'Importation Ltée
     Limoges fine porcelain and french crystal
  JFA Technologies, R&D physicists & engineers
     Instrumentation & control, LabView programming
PGP keys: http://bs.mit.edu:8001/pks-toplev.html
PGP ID:C58ADD0D:529645E8205A8A5E F87CC86FAEFEF891 
PGP ID:5B51964D:152ACCBCD4A481B0 254011193237822C





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Lucky Green 
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 10:01:42 +0800
To: Bill Stewart 
Subject: Re: TEMPEST laptops
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981101142536.008aee30@idiom.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Sun, 1 Nov 1998, Bill Stewart wrote:
[...]
> Just using a regular laptop isn't enough; I've seen laptops
> transmit recognizable images to a television (though I was probably
> using AC power rather than batteries, and may or may not have had
> the display mode set to LCD-and-monitor.)

Thanks for touching on the popuar myth that laptops radiate less than
CRT's. Many laptops in fact radiate more compromising emissions than
CRT's. Ross Anderson does his van Eck demos to undergrads using a laptop,
because it works so much better than CRT's.

-- Lucky Green  PGP v5 encrypted email preferred.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Secret Squirrel 
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 11:02:16 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Hacktivists
Message-ID: <3cf9668e2576c48ac6aa50e9297fd2a3@anonymous>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



"HACKTIVISTS" SAY: "THE REVOLUTION WILL BE DIGITIZED"

Two political activists in New York, of cofounders of the 
Electronic Disturbance Theater, are organizing "virtual sit-ins"
and recruiting programmers to attack the Web sites of persons or
organizations they believe responsible for oppression.  "We see 
this as a form of electronic civil obedience," says Stefan Wray,
one of the two leaders of this effort. National Information 
Protection Agency chief Michael Vatis says, "I wouldn't
characterize vandalizing Web sites as cyber-terrorism, but the 
only responsible assumption we can make is that there's more 
going on that we don't know about."  Some activists agree with 
that assessment, but for different reasons;  they think such 
methods are unproductive because they will antagonize the 
general public.  (New York Times 31 Oct 98)











From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Brown, R Ken" 
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 23:16:04 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: RE: 4 Horseman not so bad..
Message-ID: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F8553@MSX11002>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I wrote:

>>>  but some peope are scared of
> >>> drugs/paedophiles/terrorists etc, so thats the way in for the
> jackboots. 
> >>> To oppose it we need to reduce fear. 
> 
Chip wrote:

>>Thats the most interesting POV I've ever heard
>>of in these discussions, seems like for the most part, 
>>we counter fear arguments with other fear arguments,
>>Never saw this before. Bears more examination.

Anon wrote:

> Right.  The new Happy Net campaign.
> Druggies.. why, they're friendly enough to
> be elected officials in such peaks of civilization as
> D.C. and L.A. And the more successful recreational
> pharmaceutical merchants are luxury-car and mobile
> telecomm early adopters!

London is full of spy cameras (mostly owned by banks and large
corporations, pointing out from their windows and doors) Nobody much
objects to the invasion of privacy.  Why? Because lots of them are
scared of the streets.  If they knew the actual chance of getting robbed
or beaten up  they probably wouldn't be so scared.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 23:33:23 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: No vulnerability known in SSH-1.2.26
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 10:33:29 +0200 (EET)
From: Tatu Ylonen 
To: ssh@clinet.fi, ssh-bugs@clinet.fi, bugtraq@netspace.org,
        info@rootshell.com, coderpunks@toad.com
CC: "David A. Curry" , cert@cert.org, auscert@auscert.org.au
Subject: No vulnerability known in SSH-1.2.26
Organization: SSH Communications Security, Finland
Sender: owner-coderpunks@toad.com
Precedence: bulk

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

As the original author of SSH I want to comment on the rumored
vulnerabilities.

I have personally looked into the claimed vulnerabilities, including
the ones reported by IBM, and do not have any reason to assume that
there would be any vulnerability in ssh-1.2.26.  NO SUCH VULNERABILITY
IS KNOWN.

I repeat, I KNOW OF NO VULNERABILITY IN SSH-1.2.26.

The IBM-ERS report on ssh vulnerability turned out to be false alert.
They could not reproduce it after they recompiled their ssh and linux
kernel.

I have personally checked all places where ssh displays debugging
messages, log messages, or otherwise uses functions like sprintf.  I
was unable to find any vulnerabilities.

I have talked to people at both CERT and the IBM emergency response
service and none of them seems to have any knowledge of any
vulnerability in SSH.

In summary, to my best knowledge, ssh-1.2.26 can be safely used.

Please communicate this information to the relevant people.

Brief history of events:

  - On October 28, the rootshell.com home page was defaced by
    hackers.  After the host was brought up to date, their front page
    contained information that listed the services that had been
    active, and mentioned that entry may have been made with ssh.
    (Note that this does not by itself indicate anything; password or
    other authentication may have been obtained at the other end)

  - On October 29, a message about the rootshell case is posted to
    bugtraq and possibly other mailing lists.  Many people took this
    as indication of a vulnerability in ssh.

  - We looked at the rootshell case, and found no cause for alarm, but
    decided to be watching.

  - On October 30, IBM sent an draft advisory reporting a buffer overflow
    vulnerability that could be used to gain root access to any host
    running ssh from anywhere on the Internet.  The draft advisory was
    sent to at least CERT, FIRST, ssh-bugs, and a few other places.

  - On october 30, several major computer manufacturers and their
    offices around the world were advising their customers to follow
    the situation, and possibly disable ssh for now.  Some CERTs
    around the world issued preliminary alerts to their most important
    sites.

  - I learn of the IBM advisory on October 31 at 2 AM.  By 6 AM I've
    talked to both CERT and IBM Emergency Response Team, checked the
    code claimed to be at fault (finding no problem), and no-one seems
    to have any concrete information, and we conclude there is no
    cause for immediate alarm.

  - By November 1, the IBM researchers who found the vulnerability in
    the IBM draft advisory have been reached.  One of them says he
    never saw an exploit, and the other first said he had an exploit
    and he was going to send it over shortly, and the next day he said
    that he could no longer reproduce the problem after recompiling
    ssh.  He does not appear to have an exploit after all.

  - I've personally gone through all places where ssh1 passes
    information to sprintf, log_msg, or any other functions using
    sprintf.  I found no security problems.  I found one place where
    an argument to a format string was missing, but it is probably not
    exploitable, and one place where one byte less was allocated for a
    string than was used (only appears on Solaris).  Neither of these
    have security consequences or are cause for alarm.

  - On November 1, the IBM announcement for which IBM has already issued
    a cancellation is widely distributed by rootshell through their
    announcement list.

  - Now at Morning November 2, I'm convinced (>99% sure) that both
    the rootshell issue and the IBM draft advisory were false alerts.

We are also trying to track down the linux compilation problem that
may have caused the false alert behind the IBM advisory.  We will
issue an announcement as soon as possible if real vulnerability is
found.

For more information, please keep tracking
http://www.ssh.fi/sshprotocols2.

Best regards,

    Tatu Ylonen 

- --
SSH Communications Security           http://www.ssh.fi/
SSH IPSEC Toolkit                     http://www.ipsec.com/
Free Unix SSH                         http://www.ssh.fi/sshprotocols2/

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Charset: noconv

iQCVAwUBNj1tbqkZxfGWH0o1AQEaLwP+LPhkCOGFs30gfbyjMLLMkNp03OOfpALJ
uwqBvLPIntIWhHbjq1GF9D3hekyQ3PdiC+5SEBfFBj1xlAg1SPROJ2JV5d2QHuPm
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--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 00:01:25 +0800
To: PaulMerrill@acm.org
Subject: orange book
Message-ID: <363DCA2B.7C4E@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Monday 11/2/98 7:55 AM

PaulMerrill@ACM.Org

I looked at the orange book at NOT the Orange Book -
http://www.jya.com/ntob.htm

NSA employee Tom White http://jya.com/nsasuit.txt got me a copy of I was
told was
THE NSA orange book for Sandia's implementation of the NSA Benincasa 
nss/uso authentication algorithm..

The report I saw was concerned about implementation of cryptographic
units.

Things like shielding, power filtering, red-black boundaries, shift
register 
compromising signals, some software guidelines,....  The soft-cover
report was mostly 
hardware-oriented.

What I see at jya.com is not the orange book Sandia was given.

bill payne

Title: Black and White Test of Cryptographic Algorithms




	

	
		
			
				
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Trei, Peter" 
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 23:37:09 +0800
To: "'Lucky Green'" 
Subject: RE: TEMPEST laptops
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Lucky Green [SMTP:shamrock@cypherpunks.to]
> Sent:	Sunday, November 01, 1998 8:33 PM
> To:	Bill Stewart
> Cc:	cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
> Subject:	Re: TEMPEST laptops
> 
> On Sun, 1 Nov 1998, Bill Stewart wrote:
> [...]
> > Just using a regular laptop isn't enough; I've seen laptops
> > transmit recognizable images to a television (though I was probably
> > using AC power rather than batteries, and may or may not have had
> > the display mode set to LCD-and-monitor.)
> 
> Thanks for touching on the popuar myth that laptops radiate less than
> CRT's. Many laptops in fact radiate more compromising emissions than
> CRT's. Ross Anderson does his van Eck demos to undergrads using a laptop,
> because it works so much better than CRT's.
> 
> -- Lucky Green  PGP v5 encrypted email preferred.
	  
	Nearly all laptops have a built-in video port, for connection
	to an external monitor. This is often poorly shielded (usually
	just a plastic plug). I'd be curious to know how much the
	radiation from this port could be attenuated by (1) a metal
	plug contacting the laptop's ground plane, and (2) removing
	all the video-port specific circuitry (major surgery for a
	laptop :-( ).


	Peter Trei




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 03:03:37 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: TEMPEST laptops
Message-ID: <363DF8EB.24CF@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> Understand that my comments are just some "common sense with a little 
> bit of physics" estimates, not direct knowledge of how best to shield 
> laptops.

> I'd do this in preference to worrying about what some 1978 government 
> docs had to say about the subject. TEMPEST the specs are probably a 
> mixture of "RF shielding" tips and standards, and a mix of Van Eck 
> radiation tuner designs.
>
A long time ago I ran thermal measurement boards on a piece of equipment
in liquid He under vacuum. Pretty icy. I used only standard components. 

My question is this - anyone know of any estimates of how weak a signal
could be detected and actually rendered into useful information? 

The relevance of the low-T stuff is that it seems like a nice way to
make low-noise receiving equipment. With an estimate of the capabilities
of the receiver ( @exotic-lHe and commonplace-lN2 temps ) you could then
address the emissions of the laptop with reasonable, quantitative target
levels. Sort of reverse engineer the TEMPEST specs as it were. 

It would be nice to know what needed to be done to reduce emissions to
the point that you could be fairly sure that an eavesdropper had to park
on your doorstep to make his equipment work.

> VERY FEW PEOPLE CARE ABOUT SECURITY.
>
Since they don't have anything to hide, why should they worry? Argh.
ergo - if they're hiding something they are guilty of something. Bust
the doors down boys.

Mike




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Paul H. Merrill" 
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 00:41:22 +0800
To: bill payne 
Subject: Re: orange book
In-Reply-To: <363DCA2B.7C4E@nmol.com>
Message-ID: <363DFD9C.C7C55E44@ACM.Org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



No, like the title says, that is "NOT The Orange Book".  Many (read all)
of the people I worked with at WPAFB and the contractor sites were
confused by the deluge that NCSC put out and called the Rainbow Series. 
In an attempt to give clues to the realities involved, I wrote the
condensations and then wrapped a body around the skeleton formed by
them.

If one reads the information there, one will see that that is what it
purports to be.

NTOB is not a site, it is the title of the book (paper published with an
orange cover, of course).  ((I thought of using cyan (not.orange) but no
one got the joke but the squints and precious few of them.)

Of course, not having seen what Sandia was givn, I an only assume that
DOD 5200.28-STD is what Sandia was given.  It IS what was I was working
from, along with the other toys put out by various governmental bodies.  

PHM



bill payne wrote:
> 
> Monday 11/2/98 7:55 AM
> 
> PaulMerrill@ACM.Org
> 
> I looked at the orange book at NOT the Orange Book -
> http://www.jya.com/ntob.htm
> 
> NSA employee Tom White http://jya.com/nsasuit.txt got me a copy of I was
> told was
> THE NSA orange book for Sandia's implementation of the NSA Benincasa
> nss/uso authentication algorithm..
> 
> The report I saw was concerned about implementation of cryptographic
> units.
> 
> Things like shielding, power filtering, red-black boundaries, shift
> register
> compromising signals, some software guidelines,....  The soft-cover
> report was mostly
> hardware-oriented.
> 
> What I see at jya.com is not the orange book Sandia was given.
> 
> bill payne
<>




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: tcmay@got.net (Tim May)
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 04:50:46 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Sex, Terrorism and the NET
Message-ID: <199811022004.MAA19140@always.got.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




I know there are some here who think Cypherpunks should cooperate with law
enforcment and do "reach outs" to such folks...this was a theme at some
past CFP Conferences, for example. 

I think most cops will use anyone they can. Meanwhile, this is what
they're doing.

Entrapment, infiltration, participation in chat rooms and news groups, and
all the usual Red Squad stuff.

--Tim


> From: spranzint@aol.com (Spranz int)
> Newsgroups: alt.security.terrorism
> Subject: Sex, Terrorism and the NET
> Lines: 52
> NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder03.news.aol.com
> X-Admin: news@aol.com
> Date: 2 Nov 1998 13:29:57 GMT
> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
> Message-ID: <19981102082957.03067.00002747@ng117.aol.com>
> Xref: Sn alt.security.terrorism:3219
> 
> 
> 
> Sex, Terrorism and the Internet:
>         Inservice Workshop for Law Enforcement
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LEARN:  Who is the best Internet provider for you.
>              Techniques for creating a screen persona
>              How to verify and  use your on-line contacts to gather
vital intelligence
>              The latest Hacking techniques
> 
> EXAMINE:  Live and On-line...
>         Pedophiles, Swap Groups and White Slavery
>         Neo Nazi and Militia Movements
>         Latin American Revolutionaries
>         Nationalist Groups with both local and global operations
>         Militant Islamic Movements
> 
> PARTICIPATE IN: News groups and Chat Rooms
>                         World wide Web Sites, Links and Search Engines
>                         Hacking , Militia and Sex Trade Chatrooms around
the globe
>                         
> DISCOVER : Web sites offering detailed information on:
>                 procuring and using Nuclear, Chemical and Biological Agents 
> as well as satellite intelligence data .
>                     How to get "expert" advice
>                     How to procure  black market  items and conduct
investigations on
> the web
> 
> Curriculum includes:
> 
> Introduction to Cyberspace              Hacking and Cracking
> Sex and the Internet                            Student Explorations
> Learning Investigative Tools    Developing in house programs
> Exploring NEWSGROUPS            Monitoring and Identifying suspects
> Terror Organizations                    Creating a web persona
> 
> Fee: $ 50.00 includes class handouts and certificate
> Program includes an optional two hour online practicum following the
> presentation.
> 
>         FDLE Approved for Second Dollar Spending and Mandatory Retraining!
> Location: Coral Springs Police Dept, Coral Springs FL
> 
> Date: Friday 4 December 1999  / 0830 - 1230  (4 instruction hours)
> To Register: Contact a Spranza Representative at: 
> POB 26047 Tamarac, FL 33320
> Voice: (954) 722 - 5811  email: Spranzint@aol.com fax: (954) 720 - 4472
> Visit our website: http://members.aol.com/spranzint/pubpage.htm for more info!




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mixmaster 
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 05:11:45 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <487987985c0f857e82f678740b802bd9@anonymous>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Might as well include the laptop with the box,
including an encrypted filesystem and some software
and hardware booby trap features.

Whitecap




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 03:34:19 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Techno Warfare In The 21st Century (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811021837.MAA01250@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:
>From consim-l-return-17237-ravage=ssz.com@net.uni-c.dk Mon Nov  2 12:19:37 1998
Mailing-List: contact consim-l-help@net.uni-c.dk; run by ezmlm
Reply-To: consim-l@net.uni-c.dk
Delivered-To: mailing list consim-l@net.uni-c.dk
From: HBtLF@aol.com
Message-ID: 
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 13:20:21 EST
To: consim-l@net.uni-c.dk
Mime-Version: 1.0
Subject: Techno Warfare In The 21st Century
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 214

Dear consimers,

When I'm not playing or designing wargames, I produce documentary programs for
television. I'm considering whether to produce a documentary on the topic of
technology and weaponry. Specifically, I want to look at how computer networks
can be used in warfare. I grew up on SAC bases, so I've seen that side of it
(computers controlling missile systems, for example). 

I'm more interested in how cyberwarfare might be conducted over the Internet
to bring down an opponent's infrastructure (or play havoc with economic
activity such as stock markets). James Adams' new book "Computers Are The
Weapons and The Front Line Is Everywhere" is the type of material I am trying
to find. I would urge any consimmers with suggestions to contact me at
hbtlf@aol.com Thanks in advance.

David Bolt




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 07:16:55 +0800
To: "'cypherpunks@cyberpass.net>,       "'e$@vmeng.com'" 
Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone Alternative
Message-ID: <5F152E6E8E6FD21195DF00104B2425AD02B226@yarrowbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




> paradox of financial cryptography, and, more specifically, 
> digital bearer settlement, is not that it gives you privacy 
> and freedom (anarchy? :-))

Anarchy != privacy

In fact to many people privacy is a very statist construct, as they clamor
for more privacy regulations by government. The contradiction is government
has a vested interest in preventing privacy from itself, and generally makes
loud but ineffectual noise in creating privacy from others.

There are many anarchic elements financial cryptography, such as:

* That you can achieve greater privacy through cryptographic means instead
of government means by limiting the information transfer via zero knowledge,
blinding, cryptographic pseudonymity, etc.

* That you can exchange money in ways that are secured cryptographically and
settled instantly that do not rely on the government as
observer/auditor/enforcer[/taxer].

* You can create private currencies that do not rely on government goodwill
and stability to retain their value.

* That you can enforce contracts via electronic mediation and reputation
punishment in a way that does not rely on biometric ID and government
mediation/enforcement.

Therefore traditionally archical processes become anarchical (without state
[involvement]). It is the *process*, not the result that is anarchic, and it
is the process, not the result, that is cheaper. Cryptography (cpu-cycles)
is cheaper than government, with a falling cost versus a rising one.

Will all these free anarchical processes eventually result in an anarchic
state? Maybe. But the economics of the processes is the prime mover, the
politics of the result is a consequence.

	Matt









From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "X" 
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 06:38:00 +0800
To: "Tim May" 
Subject: RE: Sex, Terrorism and the NET
In-Reply-To: <199811022004.MAA19140@always.got.net>
Message-ID: <001601be06aa$1bf80a80$852580d0@ibm>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Tim May wrote:

~> -----Original Message-----
~> From: owner-cypherpunks@minder.net
~> [mailto:owner-cypherpunks@minder.net]On Behalf Of Tim May
~> Sent: Monday, November 02, 1998 1:05 PM
~> To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
~> Subject: Sex, Terrorism and the NET
~>
~> I know there are some here who think Cypherpunks should
~> cooperate with law
~> enforcment and do "reach outs" to such folks...this was a theme at some
~> past CFP Conferences, for example.
~>
~> I think most cops will use anyone they can. Meanwhile, this is what
~> they're doing.
~>
~> Entrapment, infiltration, participation in chat rooms and news
~> groups, and
~> all the usual Red Squad stuff.
~>
~> --Tim

Good points.  How many of those who receive cpunx email are LEA?  10%?  15?
20?  Let's all sneak out and see how long they keep the lights off before
figuring out the party's empty!

X




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 08:28:36 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Farah: The cops are out of control
Message-ID: <199811022344.PAA28323@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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From: E Pluribus Unum 
Subject: IP: Farah: The cops are out of control
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 19:39:20 -0500
To: E Pluribus Unum Email Distribution Network 

The cops are out of control 
                   

                    Until very recently, as a law-abiding person, the
                    presence of police generally gave me a feeling of
                    security, well-being, order. 

                    Not any more. I confess that, lately, when I see a
                    cop in my rear-view mirror, I get a very uneasy
                    feeling. 

                    Maybe it's the horror stories we're hearing.
                    Maybe it's the way local and state police have
                    become little more than appendages of the
                    federal law-enforcement apparatus. Maybe it's
                    the fact that so many cops have taken sides
                    against the Constitution and the rights of the
                    people in the name of more efficient
                    crime-prevention. 

                    But the recent incidents in Oklahoma, where
                    police shot an unarmed mother holding her child
                    in her home, in Virginia, where a SWAT team
                    killed a watchman guarding a dice game at an
                    after-hours club and in California, where a
                    Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms raid on
                    a gun shop resulted in the death of the
                    shopkeeper, provide some hard evidence that
                    police in America may be getting out of control 

                    I think also about columnist Geoff Metcalf's
                    anecdote about the law-abiding man arrested
                    and jailed for having in his possession a tire
iron,
                    which was classified as a deadly weapon. Had
                    he brandished it? No. Had he threatened
                    anyone? No. Had the California Highway Patrol
                    officer awakened on the wrong side of her bed
                    that morning? Maybe. 

                    But when you start putting all these incidents
                    together, with the backdrop of the massacre in
                    Waco, Texas, and the unnecessary shootout at
                    Ruby Ridge, it's no wonder Americans like me
                    are beginning to worry about the possibilities of
                    an emerging police state. 

                    "Oh, it couldn't happen here," some retort.
                    "America is different. The cops are our friends." 

                    That may have been true through most of our
                    history. But there's one big difference today. The
                    government no longer trusts the people. There is
                    a move to disarm the populace and to entrust our
                    safety solely to professional law enforcement.
                    This is a pattern we've seen in other
                    authoritarian and totalitarian regimes. It's a
                    prerequisite to the formation of a police state.
It's
                    what our Founding Fathers warned us about. It's
                    why we have a Second Amendment. 

                    One of the other problems we face in America
                    today is the increasing number of laws on the
                    books designed to turn virtually everyone into a
                    law-breaker. 

                    It's easier for cops today to fill their quota of
                    arrests and citations by targeting
                    non-threatening, non-violent citizens than it is
                    actually chasing down violent criminals. Too
                    often, today's cops make no distinction between
                    hardened, professional criminals, and people
                    who may or may not be in technical violation of
                    the law -- perhaps even an unjust,
                    unconstitutional law. 

                    But the biggest danger we face is the
                    federalization and militarization of all law
                    enforcement. Inter-agency task forces, bringing
                    together local and state police with federal
agents
                    are now the rule of the day. Federal agencies
                    bribe local cops with funding, equipment and
                    training programs. 

                    America is rapidly becoming an "us vs. them"
                    society -- with the cops and government on one
                    side and the people on the other. Many of us
                    don't feel the heat yet. But it's just a matter of
                    time before we're all confronted with the harsh
                    realities of the new emerging police state. 

                    One of these days -- and it may be sooner rather
                    than later -- America is going to be confronted
                    with a real domestic emergency. It's not a matter
                    of if, but when. We've had precious few real
                    domestic crises throughout our history, and
                    Americans have become spoiled. Thus, we take
                    our freedoms for granted. 

                    There are so many possibilities and excuses on
                    the horizon -- Y2K, terrorism, the threat posed by
                    weapons of mass destruction from rogue states as
                    well as China and Russia. 

                    Will America respond to the next crisis in a way
                    that preserves our civil rights and liberties? Or
                    will we lose our tentative grasp on freedom --
                    giving up an illustrious tradition for the sake of
                    security, safety, order? 

                    If we're to maintain any semblance of freedom in
                    the worst of times, we must hold the government
                    and police accountable in the best of times. 
                   

                    A daily radio broadcast adaptation of Joseph
Farah's
                    commentaries can be heard at http://www.ktkz.co
-- 
******************************************************************
       E Pluribus Unum            The Central Ohio Patriot Group       
       P.O. Box 791          Eventline/Voicemail: (614) 823-8499  
       Grove City, OH  43123                                      

       Meetings:  Monday Evenings, 7:30pm, Ryan's Steakhouse         
       3635 W. Dublin-Granville Rd. (just East of Sawmill Rd.)    
   
http://www.infinet.com/~eplurib          eplurib@infinet.com     
******************************************************************


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 08:26:21 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Anthrax Scare
Message-ID: <199811022344.PAA28334@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Anthrax Scare
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 18:39:22 -0600
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  Indianapolis Star News
http://starnews.com/news/citystate/98/oct/1030SN_anthrax.html 
  
   Letter claims it was 
   contaminated with Anthrax 
   29 people are contained, decontaminated at 
   Planned Parenthood clinic 
  
   By Stephen Beaven 
   Indianapolis Star/News 

   INDIANAPOLIS (Oct. 30, 1998) -- At least 29 
   people were treated Friday afternoon for 
   possible exposure to the deadly biological toxin 
   Anthrax at a Planned Parenthood clinic at East 
   21st Street and Ritter Avenue. 

   The FBI confirmed late Friday afternoon that 
   clinics in New Albany and Bloomington 
   received similar threats. 

   The Planned Parenthood eastside clinic received 
   a letter shortly after 1 p.m. with a simple 
   message -- you have been exposed to Anthrax, 
   according to the Indianapolis Fire Department. 

   Police and health and safety workers swooped in 
   soon after to quarantine the people in the 
   building. At least a dozen professionals from the 
   fire department's hazardous materials team 
   entered the building in white decontamination 
   suits with surgical masks and safety glasses to 
   treat those inside. 

   After being scrubbed down, the people in the 
   clinic were being taken to area hospitals late 
   Friday afternoon. 

   "The last thing we want to do is contaminate a 
   hospital," said one police official on the scene. 
   "No one is showing symptoms at this time, but 
   they are scared and upset." 

   A worker at the clinic opened a plain beige 
   envelope with a Cincinnati postmark Friday 
   afternoon. Inside there was a simple letter with 
   the threat. 

   It was unclear if the letter actually contained 
   Anthrax, which is generally used in biological 
   warfare and terrorism. 

   But even if it was a hoax, it looked real, 
   according to IFD Lt. Jack Cassaday. 

   "It looked like Anthrax so whoever sent it knew 
   enough to package it the right way," he said. 

   It has not been confirmed that the letter indeed 
   was contaminated with Anthrax. The substance 
   was being tested at a local lab, Cassaday added. 

   The bacteria Anthrax has flu-like symptoms 
   which do not surface until one to six days. 

   The symptoms are high fever, chest pains and 
   hemmoraging. 
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 08:29:33 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: 18-year-old rebels against being numbered
Message-ID: <199811022344.PAA28344@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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From: E Pluribus Unum 
Subject: IP: 18-year-old rebels against being numbered
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 19:43:27 -0500
To: E Pluribus Unum Email Distribution Network 

YOUR PAPERS, PLEASE ... 
                   18-year-old rebels 
                   against being numbered 
                   Wins right to vote 
                   without Social Security registration 
                   

                   By David M. Bresnahan 
                   Copyright 1998, WorldNetDaily.com

                   LAS VEGAS, NV -- Even though government
                   agencies tried their best to stop him, an
                   18-year-old will vote for the first time in the
Nov.
                   3 election.

                   Last July, Joshua Hansen, 18, went to register to
                   vote. A few days later he received a letter in the
                   mail from Kathryn Ferguson, registrar of voters
                   of Clark County, Nevada, rejecting his
                   application.

                   Hansen had refused to supply a Social Security
                   number on his application and Ferguson rejected
                   him as a voter.

                   Hansen says he does not have a Social Security
                   number, driver's license, or government issued ID
                   card. He says that he never will. He also refuses
                   to pay income tax.

                   He defends his stands on these issues based on
                   his study of the U.S. Constitution and his
                   religious beliefs. He says he is willing to pay any
                   price and will not give in to government
                   pressure.

                   Hansen takes his right to vote seriously. So
                   seriously that he took Ferguson to court to prove
                   his point. With the help of his uncle, attorney
Joel
                   F. Hansen, he got the court to order Ferguson to
                   permit him to vote.

                   He belongs to the First Christian Fellowship of
                   Eternal Sovereignty, which he says is a political
                   religion based on Christianity and the
                   Constitution which people of all denominations
                   may join.

                   "It's a fellowship of anybody who's Christian
                   who really exercises their Christian beliefs within
                   politics," explained Hansen in a phone interview
                   with WorldNetDaily.

                   "The Social Security number was much like the
                   mark of the beast talked about in the "Book of
                   Revelations." One of the main reasons is that it, I
                   mean you can't buy or sell without it, it's hard to
                   do a lot of business without it. Have you ever
                   tried to get a job without one, or voting or
                   anything? A lot of the stuff talked about in the
                   prophecy had come to life and I said, 'I don't
                   want one of those.'

                   "Everything around Social Security is a lie. I
don't
                   want any of the benefits from it and I don't want
                   to pay for it. The system's going bankrupt.
                   Anything I pay for I'll never see anyway. It's
                   blatantly unlawful and unconstitutional,"
                   explained Hansen. 

                   Living without a Social Security number is a
                   challenge, but not a major problem for Hansen.
                   He has no bank account, works only for family
                   members who will pay him "under the table,"
                   refuses to get a driver's license, and won't pay
                   taxes. Recently he started his own Internet
                   consulting business.

                   He just finished high school this year and says he
                   has very few friends who believe as he does. He
                   belongs to the Church of Jesus Christ of
                   Latter-day Saints.

                   "Because of my political beliefs," says Hansen, "I
                   have a lot of trouble getting along at church with
                   a lot of my fellow members." The members of his
                   church believe in "The Articles of Faith," a
                   portion of it reads "We believe in . . . obeying,
                   honoring, and sustaining the law."

                   "They told me that the law said I had to have a
                   number," explains Hansen. "I said, 'This is kind of
                   stupid because all these numbers are obtained
                   through the identification I already have.' When
                   you get a driver's license or an ID card here,
                   basically you show them your birth certificate,
                   and to prove residency you write down on a little
                   paper what your address is and sign something
                   that says you're not lying, which is all you do on
                   a voter registration thing."

                   Ferguson didn't like Hansen's logic. She rejected
                   his application to vote. Hansen contacted many
                   elected officials for help. Some responded and
                   some didn't, but none were of much help so he
                   decided to take it to court.

                   "The Constitution of Nevada establishes who can
                   vote," explained Hansen. "If you're an idiot,
                   you're insane, and if you don't have residency
                   you can't vote. That's it."

                   Hansen filed a Writ of Mandamus in the Clark
                   County District Court. The purpose was to have
                   the court order Ferguson to register Hansen so he
                   can vote.

                   Nevada law states that the "County Clerk shall
                   require a person to submit official identification
                   as proof of residence and identity, such as a
                   driver's license or other official document before
                   registering him."

                   Hansen presented a diploma from high school
                   and a birth certificate, but Ferguson demanded a
                   Social Security card, driver's license, or a state
ID
                   card.

                   Hansen does not have those items and in his
                   petition to the court his attorney stated,
                   "therefore, he presented alternative identification
                   to the Registrar of Voters, but his right to
register
                   to vote was refused and denied by the county
                   registrar of voters."

                   Hansen was more surprised than anyone when
                   his petition was granted by the court. "I didn't
                   think I'd win," he said. On Oct. 19, the court
                   ordered Ferguson to register Hansen to vote, and
                   he now plans to cast his first ballot on Nov. 3.

                   This may be just the first of many battles ahead
                   for Hansen. He does drive a car, and does not
                   plan to get a license.

                   "The government has no right to regulate who
                   can and cannot drive unless they have proven
                   themselves to be a danger to the community and
                   have been convicted by 12 informed jurors,"
                   wrote Hansen in an e-mail message to
                   WorldNetDaily.

                   "Assuming that everyone is already a danger and
                   by telling us we must have a license to drive is
                   known better as 'prior restraint' and according to
                   the U.S. Supreme Court is unconstitutional."

                   Hansen also objects to the current law which will
                   implement a national ID card on Oct. 1, 2000. He
                   says that Congress passed the law using illegal
                   immigration control as the excuse.

                   "The even more ironic twist is that most of the
                   illegal immigrants coming here are filtering from
                   Mexico trying to reap the socialist benefits
offered
                   by the federal government. Welfare, government
                   schools, health care, social security, etc. If you
                   want to stop illegal immigration bring back the
                   American way of work hard and succeed as
                   opposed to show up and leech off the tax
                   payers," wrote Hansen.

                   He concluded his e-mail by saying, "There is
                   nothing they can ever do to make me surrender
                   my personal freedom, nothing. I don't know a lot
                   of people who exercise freedom to the point of
                   fanaticism I do. I will not pay federal income tax,
                   I will not be marked my their unconstitutional
                   anti-Christ numbers. I will not take any of their
                   socialist benefits. I will not bow before any
                   bureaucracy. I will not surrender my God-given
                   freedom to those bastards for any reason."

                   David Bresnahan is a contributing editor of
                   WorldNetDaily.com, and is the author of "Cover
                   Up: The Art and Science of Political Deception."
You
                   may e-mail him at David@talkusa.com 
-- 
******************************************************************
       E Pluribus Unum            The Central Ohio Patriot Group       
       P.O. Box 791          Eventline/Voicemail: (614) 823-8499  
       Grove City, OH  43123                                      

       Meetings:  Monday Evenings, 7:30pm, Ryan's Steakhouse         
       3635 W. Dublin-Granville Rd. (just East of Sawmill Rd.)    
   
http://www.infinet.com/~eplurib          eplurib@infinet.com     
******************************************************************


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 08:24:51 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Sen. Moynihan Warns of Y2K Catastrophe
Message-ID: <199811022344.PAA28355@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Sen. Moynihan Warns of Y2K Catastrophe
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 08:42:26 -0600
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  http://www.senate.gov/~y2k/statements/100798moynihan.html

Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan, Senate Special Committee on the Year 2000
Technology Problem (Oct. 7).
 
As we wind up the last Year 2000 (Y2K) hearing of this Congress, I would
like to commend Senator Bennett and the Special Committee for its work in
addressing the computer problem. The Committee has done a fine job in
looking at all the aspects of society that the Y2K problem affects: the
utilities industry, the heath sector, financial services, transportation,
government, and businesses. The Committee should also be applauded for the
role it played in formulating and passing S. 2392, The Year 2000
Information and Readiness Disclosure Act. As an original cosponsor of this
piece of legislation, I am pleased to see that its enactment is soon at
hand. The head of the President's Council on Y2K, John Koskinen, said that
passing this bill is one of the most important things that we could do on
the Y2K front. I agree. I say well done to the Committee for all of the
work it has done in such a short amount of time. 

It was almost two and a half years ago that I sounded the alarm on the
computer problem. On July 31, 1996, I sent President Clinton a letter
expressing my views and concerns about Y2K. I warned him of the ``extreme
negative economic consequences of the Y2K Time Bomb,'' and suggested that
``a presidential aide be appointed to take responsibility for assuring that
all Federal Agencies, including the military, be Y2K compliant by January
1, 1999 [leaving a year for `testing'] and that all commercial and
industrial firms doing business with the Federal government must also be
compliant by that date.'' 

January 1, 1999 is quickly approaching. I believe that we have made
progress in addressing the computer problem and that the ``Good Samaritan''
legislation will play a significant role in ameliorating this problem. But
much work remains to be done. For the next 450 days we must continue to
work on this problem with dedication and resolve. 

Historically, the fin de siecle has caused quite a stir. Until now,
however, there has been little factual basis on which doomsayers and
apocalyptic fear mongers could spread their gospel. After studying the
potential impact of Y2K on the telecommunications industry, health care,
economy, and other vital sectors of our lives, I would like to warn that we
have cause for fear. For the failure to address the millennium bug could be
catastrophic.
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 08:25:25 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: FBI: Anthrax Threat Likely a Hoax
Message-ID: <199811022344.PAA28366@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: FBI: Anthrax Threat Likely a Hoax
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 09:35:33 -0600
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  Washington Post
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/digest/nat004.htm

FBI: Anthrax Threat to Abortion Clinics Likely a Hoax 

By John Kelly
Associated Press Writer
Friday, October 30, 1998; 9:20 p.m. EST 

INDIANAPOLIS - Four abortion clinics in three states received letters
Friday claiming to contain deadly anthrax bacteria, prompting the
evacuation of the Indianapolis clinic and sending at least 33 people to
hospitals, authorities said. 

Clinics in New Albany, Louisville, Ky., and Knoxville, Tenn., also
received letters, Planned Parenthood and federal officials said. All of the
letters bore Cincinnati postmarks. 

The clinic in New Albany, across the river from Louisville, was not
evacuated because the letter was not opened, authorities said. A letter
sent to a clinic in Bloomington later was determined to contain business
correspondence and was not a threat, local police said. 

An employee of the Louisville clinic and the mail carrier who delivered that
letter were taken to the University of Louisville Hospital, treated and
released. 

"The initial investigation has clearly indicated that the substance is
unlikely
to be anthrax," FBI agent Carl Christiansen said. 

The FBI is investigating a similar threat at the Knoxville Reproductive
Health Center in Knoxville, Tenn., agent Scott Nowinski said. The letter
appeared to be a hoax, he said. 

No one at the Indianapolis clinic complained of any symptoms after an
employee opened the letter Friday afternoon. Officials said is was unclear
whether the letter actually contained anthrax, a strain of bacteria that can
be used as a biological weapon. "We do not know that. But we are
handling it as if it were," police Maj. Tim Horty said. 

The 31 people, who included seven clinic workers, two firefighters, two
police officers and the postal carrier who delivered the letter, were
stripped, washed with soap and water and dressed in hospital scrubs
inside a blue tent in a strip mall parking lot before being taken to a local
hospital. They were given antibiotics as a preventive measure. 

All were expected to be released by Friday night. 

"No one is sick, no one is experiencing pain," Horty said. 

Horty said a clinic employee called police about 1 p.m. to report a
threatening letter. Inside a small, white envelope was a brown powdery
substance and a note saying "you have just been exposed to anthrax." 

Administrators isolated the envelope in the clinic, but didn't say where or
how, Horty said. Police evacuated all other stores in the strip mall and
immediately quarantined the clinic. 

The people exposed to the letter are being taken to Wishard, Methodist
and Community hospitals for observation, and are not in any danger, fire
Lt. Jack Cassaday said. 

The hospitals and 911 have been inundated by calls from people in the
area who think they might have been exposed, Cassaday said. 

"No one who was not inside the clinic could have possibly been exposed,"
he said. 

Anthrax is a disease normally associated with animals such as sheep or
goats. Its spores can infect people who breathe them in. It can kill if left
untreated, but antibiotics can usually cure the disease. 

Authorities in Indianapolis were in the process of having the powder
analyzed and hope to know by Monday whether it is anthrax, said Virginia
A. Caine, Marion County Health Department director. 

If the powder is confirmed to be anthrax, those exposed will have to take
antibiotics for four weeks, and possibly the anthrax vaccine as well, she
said. 

The letters were received a week after abortion provider Dr. Barnett
Slepian, 52, was shot and killed by a sniper in his home in suburban
Buffalo, N.Y. 

"We receive threats from time to time, but nothing very substantial. The
employees here did the appropriate thing. This did not look suspicious
until they opened it," said Delbert Culp, president of Planned Parenthood
of Central and Southern Indiana. 

"These are just political extremists who call themselves pro-life. This is not
pro-life." 

Ann Minnis of Haubstadt, Ind., president of Gibson County Right to Life,
an anti-abortion group, said she has been with the organization for 25
years and has "never met anyone who would do such a thing. 

"We're about saving lives, not about anything like that (the anthrax
threats)," she said. "Heavens, it's horrible." 

 (c) Copyright 1998 The Associated Press 
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 08:21:07 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Privacy: Dangers of security measures
Message-ID: <199811022344.PAA28378@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Privacy: Dangers of security measures
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 09:38:16 -0600
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  Federal Computer Week
http://www.fcw.com/pubs/fcw/1998/1026/web-epic-10-26-98.html

 OCTOBER 26, 1998 . . . 16:35 EST 

 Privacy watchdog group warns about dangers of
 security measures

 BY HEATHER HARRELD (heather@fcw.com)

 The recommendations of a presidential commission for protecting the
nation's critical computer systems -- many of which are being launched by
various federal entities -- would expand government authority and lead to
civil liberty violations, according to a report released today by a privacy
think tank.

 The report, authored by the Electronic Privacy Information Center, asserts
that the expanded role of the Defense Department and the FBI required to
ward off perceived information warfare threats to the nation's critical
infrastructures would infringe upon various civil liberties, such as
freedom of speech, privacy protections and the Freedom of Information Act. 

 Specifically, Wayne Madsen, senior fellow at EPIC and author of the
report, noted that the National Security Agency and other intelligence
agencies would have their roles expanded from collecting international
intelligence data to focusing efforts on domestic computer security.

 Traditionally, the NSA has been prohibited from playing a role in the
protection of unclassified computer security data. But because
infrastructure protection involves working closely with the private-sector
owners and operators of infrastructure, such as telecommunications
companies and banks, this role would be expanded.

 The report from the President's Commission on Critical Infrastructure
Protection supported the use of key-recovery encryption, a technology
mechanism strongly supported by the NSA that would allow law enforcement
officials to descramble encrypted data with a court order or other
authorization.

 It also suggests that the federal government create new classifications
for government information and provide federal agencies with expanded
latitude for classifying information, according to Madsen.

 "The intelligence community...has had its sights set on restricting access
to public information for years," Madsen said. "There's been a struggle
between NSA and civilian agencies over who will be responsible for
protecting unclassified information. NSA [in commission recommendations]
will become the de facto information security czar."

 But Jeffrey Hunker, director of the Critical Infrastructure Assurance
Office, which was created by President Clinton to carry out many of the
recommendations in the commission's report, said his office places First
Amendment and civil liberty concerns foremost in its work.

 "We are dealing with a new and evolving threat environment," Hunker said.
"Discussions about civil liberties need to recognize the fact that there
are new threats that pose real risks to Americans at home...and their way
of life." 

Mail questions to webmaster@fcw.com
Copyright 1998 FCW Government Technology Group
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 08:25:15 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: More clinics receive "anthrax" letters as authorities await results
Message-ID: <199811022344.PAA28388@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: More clinics receive "anthrax" letters as authorities await results
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 19:17:26 -0600
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  Fox News - AP

More clinics receive letters as authorities await results
 8.00 p.m. ET (101 GMT) October 31, 1998

 By Susanna Ray, Associated Press

 INDIANAPOLIS (AP) - Federal marshals stood watch Saturday over an abortion
clinic that received a letter claiming, "You have just been exposed to
anthrax.'' Authorities meanwhile awaited results of tests on the envelope's
contents. 

 The Planned Parenthood clinic was one of five clinics that received
envelopes Friday containing a brown, powdery substance and threatening
notes. The others were in the southern Indiana town of New Albany,
Knoxville, Tenn., and two in Louisville, Ky. 

 On Saturday, two other clinics - one in Wichita, Kan., and another in
Louisville - reported receiving similar letters. 

 Authorities said the letter to the Wichita clinic was postmarked in
Cincinnati, just like the ones sent to at least four other clinics. Pat
Bashore of the FBI in Louisville said he did not know the origin of two of
the Louisville letters. 

 In Wichita, an employee called the fire department, which contacted
federal authorities. FBI spokesman Jeff Lanza said the envelope wasn't
opened but "looking at it through backlighting, it doesn't appear to
contain anything at all.'' The clinic was evacuated for about 45 minutes. 

 Friday's incident at the Indianapolis clinic prompted police to
decontaminate 31 people who were scrubbed down and treated with antibiotics
at hospitals as a precaution. Two people from a Louisville clinic also were
treated at the hospital Friday. 

 Preliminary tests on the contents of the New Albany envelope and one from
Louisville were negative for anthrax, a strain of bacteria that can be used
as a biological weapon. Contents of a letter sent to the Knoxville
Reproductive Health Center will be sent to a lab for testing, the FBI said. 

 Results of testing in the Indianapolis case had not been completed
Saturday, FBI agent Doug Garrison said. 

 Michael Smith, who lives in an apartment near the Indianapolis clinic,
said he's opposed to abortion, but now is scared about what anti-abortion
extremists might do next. 

 "You're automatically wondering what chemicals went off. I mean, my
window's open. ... I feel endangered,'' he said. 

 Meanwhile, a Newsweek poll found that 60 percent of Americans believe the
anti-abortion movement has to share at least some of the blame for recent
violence against abortion provides. Fears of violent attacks against
abortion providers were heightened Oct. 23 when a sniper fatally shot a
doctor who performs abortions near Buffalo. 

 Thirty-three percent of those responding said the anti-abortion movement
is indirectly connected to the violence because of statements that
encourage violence. Another 27 percent believed there is a more direct
connection, the Newsweek poll said. 

 The survey also found that 51 percent of Americans sympathize with
abortion-rights efforts and 39 percent back the anti-abortion effort. 

 The poll appears in the Nov. 9 issue of the magazine, which is on
newsstands Monday. Its margin of error is plus or minus 4 percentage points. 

                  (c) 1998 Associated Press. All rights reserved.
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 08:23:07 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: [FP] R 141331Z-OCT-98 DNA SPECIMEN COLLECTION PROGRAM
Message-ID: <199811022344.PAA28399@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: "ScanThisNews" 
Subject: IP: [FP] R 141331Z-OCT-98 DNA SPECIMEN COLLECTION PROGRAM
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 20:59:51 -0600
To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com


SCAN THIS NEWS
10/31/98

Forwarded message:

--------------------------------

I am a government contractor and have had my problems with this enumeration
demonization and now find that the alarms are rising. A close friend of
mine, who is a government employee sent this copy of an unclassified message
from the Commander of Naval Surface Pacific Command to all forces of the
Pacific command. Undoubtedly, this is also true for the Atlantic Fleet as
well as the rest of the military under the control of the Commander in
Chief. I think Ayn Rand was correct when she said, "Justice vanished from
the country when the gold coins vanished from the country's hands." It
appears that sooner than not, we will "not be able to buy or sell except he
that has the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Here
is wisdom. Let he that has understanding calculate the number of the beast:
for it is the number of a man [His DNA?]; and his number is 666." [the
helical make-up?] Revelations 13: 17 & 18.

May God grant us the wisdom we all need for discernment in this matter.

F E

--------------------------------

Subject: R 141331Z-OCT-98 DNA SPECIMEN COLLECTION PROGRAM

R 141331Z OCT 98 ZYB PSN 475808S32
FM COMNAVSURFPAC SAN DIEGO CA//N01M//
TO NAVSURFPAC
INFO RHHMHAH/CINCPACFLT PEARL HARBOR HI//N01M//
BT
UNCLAS //N01320//PASS TO MEDICAL DEPT REPRESENTATIVES
MSGID/GENADMIN/N01M//
SUBJ/DNA SPECIMEN COLLECTION PROGRAM//
REF/A/RMG/COMNAVSURFPAC/101331Z/JUN98//
REF/B/RMG/CINCLANTFLT/021630Z/JUN98//
NARR/REF A IS READD MSG FROM BOTH CINCS REGARDING THE DNA SPECIMEN
COLLECTION PROGRAM. REF B PROVIDED GUIDANCE ON HOW TO QUERY THE
ARMED FORCES INSTITUTE OF PATHOLOGY (AFIP) DATABASE.//
POC/A.C. ABAD, HMCM(SW)/CNSP/N01M2/-/TEL:(619)437-2326
/TEL:DSN 577-2326//

RMKS/1. THE PURPOSE OF THIS MSG IS TO ALERT ALL COMNAVSURFPAC UNITS
TO THE REQUIREMENT TO REPORT THE STATUS OF THEIR DNA SPECIMEN
COLLECTION PROGRAM TO THE TYCOM. PER REFS A AND B, ALL UNITS
ARE REQUESTED TO SUBMIT REPORTS OF COMPLETION OF DNA SPECIMEN
COLLECTION TO CNSP NLT 31 OCT 98. ALL UNITS SHOULD HAVE 100 PERCENT

[PAGE 02 RUEDMCA0441 UNCLAS]

OF THEIR CREW REGISTERED IN THE ARMED FORCES REPOSITORY OF SPECIMEN
SAMPLES FOR THE IDENTIFICATION OF REMAINS (AFRSSIR) AT AFIP.

2. FOR QUESTIONS OR CLARIFICATIONS, PLS CONTACT POC. //
BT
#0441
NNNN
RTD:000-000/COPIES:

=======================================================================
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1) you can confirm it with another source, and/or
2) it is consistent with what you already know to be true.
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 08:34:08 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 6.03: Privacy Here and Abroad
Message-ID: <199811022344.PAA28410@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: "ama-gi ISPI" 
Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 6.03: Privacy Here and Abroad
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 00:06:37 -0800
To: 

ISPI Clips 6.03: Privacy Here and Abroad
News & Info from the Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI)
November 1, 1998
ISPI4Privacy@ama-gi.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This From: The Washington Post, Saturday, October 31, 1998; Page A16
http://www.washingtonpost.com

Privacy Here and Abroad
http://search.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPlate/1998-10/31/083l-103198-idx.h
tml

CONCERN OVER the privacy of personal data is sharpening as the problem
appears in more and sometimes unexpected contexts -- everything from
employer testing of people's genetic predispositions to resale of their
online reading habits or their bank records. When the data are medical or
financial, everyone but the sellers and resellers seems ready to agree that
people should have some measure of control over how and by whom their data
will be used. But how, other than piecemeal, can such control be
established, and what would a more general right to data privacy look like?

One approach very different from that of the United States, as it happens,
is about to be thrust upon the consciousness of many American businesses as
a European law called the European Union Data Privacy Directive goes into
effect. The European directive has drawn attention not only because the
European approach to and history on data privacy are sharply different from
our own but also because the new directive comes with prohibitions on
export that would crimp the options of any company that does business both
here and in Europe.

The directive imposes sweeping prohibitions on the use of any personal data
without the explicit consent of the person involved, for that purpose only
(repeated uses or resale require repeated permission) and also bars
companies from exporting any such data to any country not ruled by the EU
to have "adequate" privacy protection measures already in place. The
Europeans have not ruled the United States "adequate" in this regard -- no
surprise there -- though individual industries may pass muster or fall
under special exemptions.

That means, for instance, that multinational companies cannot allow U.S.
offices access to personnel data on European employees, and airlines can't
swap reservations data without restrictions. More to the point, they can't
share or sell the kinds of data on customers that in this country are now
routinely treated as another possible income stream. Would such restraints
be a boon to customers on these shores too? Or will Americans, as the data
companies frequently argue, find instead that they want the convenience and
"one-on-one marketing" that this constant dossier-compiling makes possible?

In one early case, a U.S. airline is being sued in Sweden to prevent its
compiling and selling a database of, for instance, passengers who requested
kosher meals or wheelchair assistance on arrival from transatlantic
flights. Do customers want the "convenience" of this kind of tracking, and
if not, how might they -- we -- avoid having it offered? The contrast
between systems is a chance to consider which of the many business-as-usual
uses of data in this country rise to the level of a privacy violation from
which citizens should be shielded by law.

(c) Copyright 1998 The Washington Post Company


--------------------------------NOTICE:------------------------------
ISPI Clips are news & opinion articles on privacy issues from
all points of view; they are clipped from local, national and international
newspapers, journals and magazines, etc. Inclusion as an ISPI Clip
does not necessarily reflect an endorsement of the content or opinion
by ISPI. In compliance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed free without profit or payment for non-profit research
and educational purposes only.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

ISPI Clips is a FREE e-mail service from the "Institute for the Study
of Privacy Issues" (ISPI). To receive "ISPI Clips" on a regular bases
(up to 3 - 8 clips per day) send the following message  "Please
enter [Your Name] into the ISPI Clips list: [Your e-mail address]" to:
ISPIClips@ama-gi.com  .

The Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) is a small
contributor-funded organization based in Victoria, British Columbia
(Canada). ISPI operates on a not-for-profit basis, accepts no
government funding and takes a global perspective.

ISPI's mandate is to conduct & promote interdisciplinary research
into electronic, personal and  financial privacy with a view toward
helping ordinary people understand the degree of privacy they have
with respect to government, industry and each other and to likewise
inform them about techniques to enhance their privacy.

But, none of this can be accomplished without your kind and
generous financial support. If you are concerned about the erosion
of your privacy in general, won't you please help us continue this
important work by becoming an "ISPI Supporter" or by taking out
an institute Membership?

We gratefully accept all contributions:

  Less than $60    ISPI Supporter
          $60 - $99    Primary ISPI Membership (1 year)
      $100 - $300    Senior ISPI Membership (2 years)
More than $300    Executive Council Membership (life)

Your ISPI "membership" contribution entitles you to receive "The ISPI
Privacy Reporter" (our bi-monthly 12 page hard-copy newsletter in
multi-contributor format) for the duration of your membership.

For a contribution form with postal instructions please send the following
message "ISPI Contribution Form" to ISPI4Privacy@ama-gi.com .

We maintain a strict privacy policy. Any information you divulge to ISPI
is kept in strict confidence. It will not be sold, lent or given away to
any third party.










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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 08:57:39 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Fatal Flaws: How military misled about Agent Orange
Message-ID: <199811022344.PAA28421@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Fatal Flaws: How military misled about Agent Orange
Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 11:41:36 -0600
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  San Diego Union-Tribune
http://www.union-tribune.com/news/981101-0010_mz1n1agent.html

FATAL FLAWS

How the military misled Vietnam veterans and their families about the
health risks of Agent Orange

UNION-TRIBUNE Staff Writer 

November 1, 1998 

The U.S. military's $200 million study of the health effects of Agent
Orange on Vietnam War veterans is so flawed that it might be useless, a
six-month investigation by The San Diego Union-Tribune has found.

The study has been a key factor in denying compensation to Vietnam veterans
suffering from illnesses they blame on Agent Orange, a powerful herbicide
used to destroy enemy crops and jungle hiding places.

Interviews with military scientists, transcripts of meetings, and
government reports and internal memos reveal that these are among the flaws
in the Air Force study, which began in 1979 and concludes in 2006:

Two study reports that revealed serious birth defects among children of
veterans exposed to Agent Orange were withheld for years, leaving a
generation of men and women who served in Vietnam to start families without
knowing the potential risks. 

A report expressing concerns about cancer and birth defects was altered,
with the result that the risks appeared less serious. 

The government ignored a National Academy of Sciences recommendation that
the study be done by scientists outside the military.

High-ranking Air Force officers interfered with the study' s data analysis,
undermining its scientific integrity.

The Air Force stonewalled a U.S. senator who wanted full disclosure of the
data.

Dr. Richard Albanese, one of four scientists who designed the study but
later was taken off the project, says it was manipulated to downplay the
health problems of Vietnam veterans.

"This is a medical crime, basically," Albanese said. "Certainly, this is
against all medical ethics."

Albanese, a civilian doctor, still works at Brooks Air Force Base in San
Antonio, where the study' s scientists are headquartered. 

When the Union-Tribune contacted him, Albanese weighed the consequences for
several days and then agreed to a series of interviews in the hope that
veterans will be treated better in the future.

He said the study is tainted because a government agency, in this case the
Air Force, was allowed to investigate itself.

Joel Michalek, the study' s head scientist, acknowledged that the Air Force
and the government tried to interfere, but he said this had no impact on
the study. He said he received two memos through the chain of command that
tried to influence the study, but threw them away.

The study is named for Operation Ranch Hand, a series of Air Force missions
that sprayed 18 million gallons of defoliants over 3.6 million acres of
South Vietnam. The Ranch Hand study tracks the health of about 1,000
veterans who participated in the spraying missions, in comparison with an
Air Force group that was not involved in the spraying. Both groups come to
San Diego every few years for medical exams.

Agent Orange contained dioxin, now known to cause some cancers. The
defoliant destroyed forests and darkened the waters of the Mekong Delta,
where Patti Robinson' s husband, Geoff, was a gunner' s mate on a Navy
patrol boat in 1968-69.

Robinson, who lives in Clairemont, said her husband described how the
herbicide congealed and licked at river banks. But he told her the men
bathed and swam in the water anyway; their superiors said it was safe. 

When her husband died of cancer in 1981, Robinson turned to the Veterans
Administration for help. Her claim citing Agent Orange as a factor in her
husband' s death also listed her son, Matthew, who was born in 1976 with a
developmental disability.

But the government told Robinson that Agent Orange did not cause her
husband' s malignant melanoma, nor her son' s communication disorder. Or
any other health problem for that matter.

All claims were being denied. Agent Orange was innocent until proved guilty. 

The government had made that clear in 1978, after the first 500 claims came
in. Garth Dettinger, an Air Force deputy surgeon general, told Congress
there was no evidence that Agent Orange had harmed anyone.

But concerns about the herbicide' s health effects had been raised since
the early ' 70s, and the public wanted proof. So Congress funded the Ranch
Hand study. Dettinger helped make sure it was done by Air Force scientists.  

Conflict of interest

Although Dettinger wanted the Air Force to evaluate its use of Agent
Orange, some of its scientists thought that might present a conflict of
interest. Col. George Lathrop, head scientist for the Ranch Hand study in
its early years, told a military science board in 1979 that an Air Force
study wouldn' t be credible to people outside the government.

"We advised a certain general that, ' No, we should not do this.' And we
were told to shut up and do it anyway," Lathrop said, according to a
transcript of the meeting. "So we are saluting the flag pole and mushing
on. We are doing the damn thing."

That general, Lathrop said in a recent interview, was Dettinger.

"Dettinger had the notion that if we didn' t do this study that he would
devise his own questionnaire and his own study and go out and get it done
himself," Lathrop said. "It would have been scientifically disastrous."

Dettinger denied ordering Lathrop to do the Ranch Hand study and said he
never threatened to conduct his own version.

"He' s not being honest about that," Dettinger said. "I promised Congress
we would do the study. My word is my bond, and so we went ahead and did it." 

Albanese also worried that conflict of interest might affect the findings.
But, at the time, he believed the danger could be offset by a rule written
into the study design: Air Force management was not to interfere with the
scientific analysis. 

The scientists weren' t the only ones with conflict-of-interest concerns.
The National Academy of Sciences reviewed the study design in 1980 and
recommended it be done by independent researchers. But a White House panel
made up of representatives from the Pentagon and VA, among other federal
agencies, said the Air Force would do it. The panel, called the Agent
Orange Working Group, appointed an advisory committee to review Ranch Hand
reports.

But the committee did more directing than advising during the first decade
of the study, Albanese said.

Ranch Hand reports went from the Air Force to the advisory committee, then
to the Agent Orange Working Group and back to the Air Force. Sources and
documents indicate the reports were changed during that process, sometimes
dramatically. 

Altered report

The Air Force scientists drafted two major Ranch Hand reports in 1984. 

One of them was withheld. The other was published, but its findings were
altered.

The report that was withheld dealt specifically with reproductive health
issues, and stressed birth defects and infant deaths. It showed high rates
of both among children of Ranch Hand veterans.

The report that was published examined the general health of Ranch Hand
veterans. It presented data on birth defects, cancer and many other medical
conditions. The Air Force announced that it showed little difference
between the health of Ranch Hand and comparison veterans. 

But that wasn' t what the Ranch Hand scientists wrote. Their original
version of the report contained a table showing that the Ranch Hand
veterans were, by a ratio of 5-1, "less well" than the comparison group.
That version also noted that Ranch Hand veterans reported significantly
more birth defects among their children than did the other veterans. 

After the White House panel' s advisory committee reviewed the report,
those details were downplayed or eliminated.

Lathrop complied with the committee' s recommendations to omit the table,
soften the birth defects language and drop a sentence that said Ranch Hand
veterans might have been harmed by Agent Orange. Lathrop also deleted a
sentence that said some of the findings were "of concern." He added a line
that said the overall findings were "reassuring." 

Lathrop didn' t object to the changes, which he said were minor.

"Fundamentally, the advisory group felt that we were too liberal on the
interpretation," he said.

Albanese, on the other hand, thought the changes distorted the report. He
wrote a letter requesting that his views be published as a minority
opinion, and kept a copy in his files. Lathrop, who didn' t respond to
Albanese' s letter, said he doesn' t recall receiving it. 

Albanese and Lathrop also disagreed about how the cancer data were prepared
and presented in the 1984 health report.

Because the Ranch Hand group is too small for the scientists to draw
conclusions about rare cancers, Albanese said, they decided to study the
incidence of cancer as a whole. They found that the Ranch Hand veterans had
twice as many cancers as the comparison group.

But that didn' t make it into the report.

Instead, skin and internal cancers were separated. Presented that way, the
Ranch Hand group had 135 percent more skin cancers than the comparison
group, but only 20 percent more internal cancers.

The scientists reported the high skin cancer rate, but suggested it was
caused by overexposure to the sun. They found "no significant group
differences" in internal cancers. Within the small Ranch Hand group,
Albanese said, the increase in internal cancers became a meaningless
statistic.

Albanese was outraged.

"It happened that most cancers were in the skin, and the report said they
were just in the skin," he said. "That' s not a correct inference."

At the press conference that unveiled the 1984 health findings, Murphy
Chesney, a deputy Air Force surgeon general at the time, announced that the
health of the Ranch Hand and comparison veterans was about the same. 

In response to a question during that press conference, Albanese voiced a
mild disagreement. Noting the higher incidence of some diseases, he said,
"I cannot account for such differences by chance; on the other hand, I
cannot explain their cause."

He repeated to reporters a phrase that had been deleted from the report: 

"A degree of concern is warranted."

Albanese was removed from the Ranch Hand study eight months later. The Air
Force said he was needed on a different project.

Sensitive information

Albanese considered going public with his misgivings about the Ranch Hand
study years ago, but decided against it. He didn' t want to jeopardize his
career as a government scientist.

Because of the study' s flaws, Albanese said, Vietnam veterans have not
received the compensation they deserve.

Lathrop said it was better not to release sensitive data from the Ranch
Hand study prematurely, and nothing was more sensitive than information
about birth defects.

"There was a great deal riding on the issue of birth defects," he said.
"The VA had not decided on the issue of compensation and so forth."

After her husband died, Patti Robinson struggled to meet her son' s special
needs. She needed the government compensation, but more than that, she
needed the truth.

"The uncertainty has left big question marks," she said. "If it wasn' t for
that, you could put it behind you."

Robinson never remarried. She devoted her life to her son, Matthew, who is
21 now, the age his father was in Vietnam.

Matthew has the reading skills of a second-grader, and he has a hard time
getting words out. But he can look at a photograph, identify a place he has
been and offer directions to get there.

He calls his mother by her first name and often refers to himself in the
third person. He will say, "Patti, Matthew is stupid," and his mother will
fire back, "No, you' re not."

Matthew keeps a picture of his father in his bedroom. Sometimes he shows it
to visitors.

But pain registered on his face when he was asked what he remembers about
the man who died so long ago.

He turned away.

"Matthew doesn' t want to talk about that," he said.

In the private sector

To reduce the workload of its scientists, the Air Force hired a private
company to conduct Ranch Hand general health studies published since 1984. 

But the government has remained in charge.

And the firm that won the first contract featured a familiar face.

George Lathrop had retired from the Air Force and was working at the San
Antonio office of Science Applications International Corp., a San
Diego-based company that was founded on defense contracts.

Lathrop said he wanted to continue working on the Ranch Hand study. He
figured that with him on its team, SAIC would get the contract.

It did.

Lathrop left SAIC in 1987. The company went on to win the contracts for
1987, 1992, 1997 and 2002. It uses Scripps Clinic in La Jolla to perform
the medical tests.

Results are analyzed by SAIC, then sent to scientists at Brooks Air Force
Base for approval. The SAIC contracts do not include compiling birth
defects reports. The Air Force does that itself.

By 1987, Ranch Hand had emerged as the government' s definitive Agent
Orange study.

"It was the pivotal study," said Michalek, Ranch Hand' s head scientist
since 1991. "It still is."

The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta tried to do
its own study by matching records of troop movements with Agent Orange
spraying. But after five years and nearly $50 million, the CDC decided its
review method wasn' t reliable.

After the CDC gave up in 1987, the government dismissed other studies that
used similar exposure estimates. They were deemed unscientific. 

That left the Ranch Hand study as the government' s principal yardstick for
Agent Orange damage.

Pattern of manipulation

South Dakota Sen. Tom Daschle, a Democrat, has kept an eye on the Ranch
Hand study since the early 1980s. He was confident it would support his
belief that Agent Orange harmed Vietnam veterans.
 
When that hadn' t happened by 1984, when Daschle was a member of the House
of Representatives, he decided to investigate. He assigned an aide, Laura
Petrou, to help. They collected Air Force and other government
correspondence and saw what they believed was a pattern of manipulation to
minimize findings of health problems among Ranch Hand veterans.

When Daschle learned about the unpublished 1984 birth defects report, he
asked for a copy. The Air Force refused to give him one.

Finally, in a letter to Daschle dated Aug. 25, 1987, the Air Force conceded
that the cancer and birth defects information in the 1984 Ranch Hand health
report -- the one Albanese said was distorted by advisory committee changes
-- might be incorrect.

Daschle then met with Albanese, Michalek and a third Ranch Hand scientist,
Col. William H. Wolfe. They told Daschle about another unpublished report,
which included some of the cancer and birth defects information that was
left out of the 1984 general health report.

Daschle fought to make the report public. The advisory committee argued
that it was a rehash of old data.

The report was released in February 1988, but it didn' t gain the attention
Daschle had hoped.

The Air Force deemed the report "technically correct" but did not publicize
it or list it among Ranch Hand publications.

One month after the report was released, Scripps Clinic issued a study
update, a press release that said the Ranch Hand veterans were doing fine.
It quoted Wolfe:

"This is the definitive study on Agent Orange in Vietnam veterans, and so
far it shows that disease is not related to apparent exposure, that there
is no increased incidence of major long-term health effects.

"These results are reassuring."

' Forbidden interpretation' Patti Robinson was not reassured. 

She had been attending meetings of San Diego veterans' groups and had read
everything she could find on Agent Orange.

Robinson also corresponded with retired Navy Adm. Elmo Zumwalt, who had
ordered the spraying of Agent Orange along the Mekong Delta to kill
vegetation where enemy snipers hid. His son, Navy Lt. j.g. Elmo Zumwalt
III, had commanded a patrol boat in the Mekong Delta, the same waters Geoff
Robinson had navigated.

Former Lt. j.g. Zumwalt died of cancer in 1988. His son, Russell, was
diagnosed with sensory integration dysfunction, the same communication
disorder that plagues Patti Robinson' s son, Matthew.

Robinson thought the Ranch Hand veterans and her husband were exposed to
roughly equal amounts of Agent Orange. She believed the Ranch Hand study
would be the one that would "prove how dangerous Agent Orange was." 

"I placed a high priority on that study," Robinson said. "I was
disappointed in the results."

The Air Force now regrets having described Ranch Hand findings as
"reassuring," Michalek said.

"That' s a forbidden interpretation," he said. "You can' t reassure anyone
of anything in (statistical studies). You can only establish hazard, not
safety." 

Daschle grew tired of fighting the Air Force on the Ranch Hand study. He
tried to find other ways to help Vietnam veterans and their families.

"Our whole point was if the government was controlling all the science and
analyses veterans would never get compensated," Petrou said.

Daschle, along with then-Sen. Alan Cranston, D-Calif., and Rep. Lane Evans,
D-Ill., pushed legislation to compensate Vietnam veterans suffering from
soft-tissue sarcoma and non-Hodgkin' s lymphoma. The bill also authorized
the National Academy of Sciences to evaluate scientific and medical
information about the health effects of Agent Orange.

Earlier attempts to pass similar legislation had failed. But toward the end
of 1990, with U.S. troops in the Persian Gulf, Congress was eager to help
veterans.

The Senate passed the bill Jan. 30, 1991, the day Camp Pendleton Marines
led the first major ground battle of the Persian Gulf War.

During a ceremony to announce the legislation, President Bush proclaimed:
"We are here today to ensure that our nation will ever remember those who
defended her, the men and women who stood where duty required them to stand."

Undue influence?

Murphy Chesney, a retired lieutenant general, was an important player in
both the Ranch Hand study and the Ranch Hand spraying missions.

In Vietnam, as the officer in charge of the health and safety of Air Force
personnel, he could have recommended against spraying herbicides if he
thought they might be dangerous. But he shared the then-prevailing opinion
that Agent Orange, named for the color of the stripe around its 55-gallon
storage containers, wouldn' t hurt the troops. 

After the war, he oversaw the Ranch Hand study from 1979 until he was
promoted to Air Force surgeon general in 1985.

Chesney couldn' t say whether his role in Operation Ranch Hand influenced
his decisions in the Ranch Hand study.

"I hope it didn' t," he said in an interview.

But Albanese, who worked on the study during the years Chesney was
involved, believes it did. He recalled a dispute with a colleague, Wolfe,
over data analysis. Chesney sided with Wolfe.

"Then," Albanese said, "Gen. Chesney pulled me aside and said, ' If I had
to accept your analysis, I' m not sure I could live with myself.' "I could
see the water in his eyes.

"He said he had approved some of those spraying activities."

Chesney said no such conversation took place.

But Chesney did remember ordering the scientists to comply with advisory
committee recommendations, although such influence by the Air Force is
prohibited by the rules of the study design.

Looking back, Albanese said, it should have been obvious that the conflict
of interest was too strong for the study to be objective.

"There' s a faction that doesn' t want to pay the price of treating the
veterans," he said, "and a faction that doesn' t want to have made them sick."

Birth defects acknowledged

In August 1992, the Air Force finally published a Ranch Hand birth defects
report.

Michalek said the Air Force had withheld the 1984 birth defects report
because the advisory committee said it was incomplete. Ranch Hand
scientists had verified records of babies with birth defects, but had not
yet checked the healthy ones.

In the draft of the report, the scientists wrote that it would take about a
year to verify records of the healthy babies. But eight years passed before
a report came out.

The 1992 report confirmed the high rate of birth defects and infant deaths
among children fathered by Ranch Hand veterans. But the scientists wrote
that because the birth defects did not increase consistently with dioxin
exposure, Agent Orange wasn' t to blame.

But that might be inaccurate, the National Academy of Sciences concluded in
1994. The academy criticized the Ranch Hand study and singled out the 1992
birth defects report as an example of its many flaws.

"It was confusing how the analysis of the birth defects was presented,"
said Kathleen Rodgers, one of 16 contributors to the National Academy of
Sciences study, "Veterans and Agent Orange."

"I remember being incensed at the time that we couldn' t get anything out
of it," said Rodgers, an associate professor at the University of Southern
California School of Medicine.

The Air Force scientists, examining a study group that was small to begin
with, had omitted hundreds of subjects from the analysis, the academy said.
That made it harder to connect birth defects to Agent Orange.
 
Or easier not to.

"Some aspect of the Ranch Hand experience seems to have increased the risk
of fathering children with birth defects," the academy report said, "but
the implications of this finding are unclear."

The Air Force, of course, knew that 10 years earlier but sat on the
information.

"It' s the worst thing I have ever seen from the point of view of medical
reporting," Albanese said.

Releasing the data

In recent years, as the Agent Orange controversy has faded from the public'
s consciousness, the Ranch Hand advisory committee' s role has diminished. 

During its meeting last week in San Antonio -- the first such gathering
since 1995 -- Michalek briefed the committee on the Union-Tribune' s
investigation of the study.

Michalek asked Albanese to detail his concerns about unpublished data and
government interference. Afterward, Albanese suggested that the raw Ranch
Hand data be made public, repeating an idea he has advocated for years.
That way, he said, researchers outside the military might come up with new
and useful analyses.

Advisory committee Chairman Robert W. Harrison recommended that everything
should be released, except for information that would violate the
confidentiality of the subjects. Michalek said he would comply.

Harrison, a professor of medicine at the University of Rochester, said that
he and his colleagues on the panel should start looking more closely at how
the study is conducted and its findings.

Expanded compensation

Last year, the Air Force announced its first link between Agent Orange and
a serious illness.

The Ranch Hand veterans have a higher rate of diabetes.

Air Force scientists saw the diabetes increase in 1992 but waited five
years to make it public. Michalek said they wanted to be sure.

The delay came as no surprise to Daschle and his aide, Petrou, who are
still upset with the Air Force for withholding information about cancer and
birth defects.

"Delay is clearly their major tactic," Petrou said. "The delay is justice
denied. It' s extremely disturbing.

"From a public health perspective and from a moral perspective in terms of
how we treat veterans, there' s no excuse good enough for this."

Daschle has given up on the Ranch Hand study. But he has worked around it
with some success.

The National Academy of Sciences has continued its investigation, examining
studies of Vietnam veterans and those of civilians exposed to dioxin in
industrial accidents.

As the academy links additional diseases to dioxin, more Vietnam veterans
get help.

The VA -- now the Department of Veterans Affairs -- has expanded its Agent
Orange compensation list to 10 diseases, mostly cancers. Spina bifida, a
serious spinal deformity, is the only birth defect on the list so far.

As of April, the VA had received 92,276 Agent Orange claims from veterans
and their survivors. Claims approved for diseases on the compensation list
totaled 5,908.

Patti Robinson remains a part of the larger group. The academy hasn' t
found enough evidence that Agent Orange caused malignant melanoma, the
cancer that took her husband.

Which leaves Robinson where she was 15 years ago.

She still believes Agent Orange killed her husband and disabled her son. 

But she can' t be sure.

And that' s what really hurts, she said.

"Look at all the years that have gone by, and there' s still no clear-cut
answer."

Copyright 1998 Union-Tribune Publishing Co.
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 08:50:12 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: [FP] The DoD DNA Registry and Specimen Repository
Message-ID: <199811022344.PAA28432@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: "ScanThisNews" 
Subject: IP: [FP] The DoD DNA Registry and Specimen Repository
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 11:49:05 -0600
To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com


SCAN THIS NEWS
11/1/98


"The blood is placed on special cards with the service member's Social
Security number, date of birth, and branch of service designated on the
front side of the card. On the reverse side of the bloodstain card are a
fingerprint, a bar code, and signature attesting to the validity of the
sample."

**************************************************

The DoD DNA Registry and DoD Specimen Repository for Remains
Identification

http://www.afip.org/homes/oafme/dna/afdil.html

Historical Overview:

The U.S. military recognized the value of DNA testing as a necessary adjunct
to traditional identification efforts. In a memorandum dated December 16,
1991, the Deputy Secretary of Defense authorized the Assistant Secretary of
Defense (Health Affairs) to establish policies and requirements for the use
of DNA analysis in the identification of remains. To carry out these
policies, the establishment of a DNA Registry, to include a Specimen
Repository for Remains Identification and a DNA Identification Laboratory
were authorized under the Office of the Armed Forces Medical Examiner
(OAFME). On January 5, 1993, the Assistant Secretary of Defense (Health
Affairs) issued a policy guidance for the establishment of a repository of
specimen samples to aid in the remains identification using genetic
analysis. On May 17, 1993, the Surgeon General, U.S. Army, was delegated as
Executive Agent for the DNA Registry. On March 9, 1994, the Assistant
Secretary of Defense (Health Affairs) issued a Memorandum of Instruction to
the Service Secretaries establishing policies and procedures for the
collection of DNA specimens. On April 2, 1996 policy refinements were issued
to the DoD DNA Registry. In October 1994 the DNA Registry received approval
from the American Society of Crime Laboratory Directors for the production
of DNA proficiency tests used by forensic DNA laboratories. AFDIL is one of
four DNA laboratories to receive this approval in the United States.

In January 1995 the Defense Science Board concurred with the use of
mitochondrial DNA testing for associated and unassociated remains. Although
AFDIL is capable of conducting more common nuclear DNA testing, nuclear DNA
testing is not possible on ancient remains.


DoD Specimen Repository for Remains Identification

The DoD DNA Specimen Repository provides reference material for DNA analysis
to assist in the remains identification process. A dried bloodstain and
buccal swab are being collected from all Active Component (AC) personnel. A
total of three DNA specimens are collected. One bloodstain card is stored in
a pouch in the service member's medical record; another bloodstain card and
a buccal swab are stored at the Armed Forces Repository for Specimen Samples
for the Identification of Remains. The blood is placed on special cards with
the service member's Social Security number, date of birth, and branch of
service designated on the front side of the card. On the reverse side of the
bloodstain card are a fingerprint, a bar code, and signature attesting to
the validity of the sample. Ultimately, the bloodstain card is stored in a
vacuum-sealed barrier bag and frozen at -20 degrees Celsius, in the Specimen
Repository. The oral swab (buccal scrapping) is fixed in isopropanol and
stored at room temperature. Great care is taken to prevent the possibility
of error from sample switching or mislabeling. Additionally, the specimens
are considered confidential medical information, and military regulations
and federal law exist to cover any issues on privacy concerns. As of
December 1994, DNA collections were being made from all newly accessioned
personnel, the residual AC members, and select high risk Reserve Component
(RC) members. Large scale RC collection are scheduled to begin collection in
FY 96. Collections are being made from any service member deployed to a
hostile fire or imminent danger area. During CY 94, collections were made
from personnel deploying to Somalia, Rwanda, Haiti, Bosnia, and Latin
America. All services are at least 90% complete with collections of special
operations, aviation, and high risk duty personnel. The remaining AC
individuals will be collected through FY 98, at the time of their annual
physical.

As of 31 December 1995, the Repository has received 1.15 million DNA
specimens. Specimens come into the Repository at the rate of 3,000 - 4,000
per day. The updated Specimen Management System (SMS), using the Defense
Eligibility Enrollment System (DEERS) database, verifies service member
information. In CY 95, the Repository established an on-line datalink with
DEERS. All DNA specimens will be maintained for fifty years, before being
destroyed. Individual specimen samples will be destroyed upon request of the
donor following the conclusion of the donor's complete military service
obligation (including individually ready reserve status or subject to active
duty recall) or other applicable relationship to DoD.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----

MEMORANDUM FOR ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF THE ARMY (M&RA)
               ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF THE NAVY (M&RA)
               ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF THE AIR FORCE (MRAI&E)

SUBJECT: Casualty Identification Policy

http://ippsrs.ha.osd.mil/main/caid9651.html


July 18, 1996

References: (a) Deputy Secretary of Defense Memorandum 47003, "Establishment
of a Repository of Specimen Samples to Aid in Remains Identification Using
Genetic Deoxyribonucleic Acid (DNA) Analysis," 16 December 1991.

(b) Assistant Secretary of Defense (Health Affairs) Memorandum and Policy
Statement, "Establishment of a Repository of Specimen Samples to Aid in
Remains Identification Using Genetic Deoxyribonucleic Acid (DNA) Analysis,"
5 January 1993.

(c) Assistant Secretary of Defense (Health Affairs) Memorandum, "Memorandum
of Instruction of Procedures for the Collection and Shipment of Specimens
for Submission to the Deoxyribonucleic Acid (DNA) Specimen Repository," 9
March 1994.

(d) Privacy Act System of Records Notice for System A0040-57aDASG, "DoD DNA
Registry," 60 Fed. Reg. 31, 287-8, 14 June 1995.

(e) Assistant Secretary of Defense (Health Affairs) Memorandum, "Policy
Refinements for the Armed Forces Repository of Specimen Samples for the
Identification of Remains," 2 April 1996.


Reference (a) delegated authority to the Assistant Secretary of Defense
(Health Affairs) (ASD(HA)) to issue policies and requirements for the
establishment of a registry and appropriate specimen repository that will
aid in the remains identification process by the use of DNA profile
analysis. References (b) and (c) established policies and procedures for
operation of the repository. Reference (d) formalized the system of records
for the repository. Reference (e) refined the policies for the operation of
the repository.

Primary casualty identification is fundamental to the elements of
medicolegal death investigations and involves the use of one or more
complementary methods including fingerprints, footprints, dental
comparisons, DNA identifications and superimposable radiographic techniques.
The duplicate dental panograph repository or Central Panograph Storage
Facility (CPSF) in Monterey, California was established in 1986 and has been
used more than 1000 times over the last ten years largely by DoD agencies
with close to 100 percent success. In 1991, DoD embarked on the creation and
implementation of a DNA Registry including the Armed Forces Repository of
Specimen Samples for Identification of Remains and Armed Forces Casualty
Identification Laboratory both of which are components of the Armed Forces
Institute of Pathology (AFIP). The Repository accessions approximately 5,000
files/day with original plans of having all servicemembers (active, reserve
and guard) on file by FY 2002. Comparative DNA casualty identification is
now the DoD preferred standard of positive casualty identification, making
the duplicate panograph obsolete.

The CPSF will be discontinued on 31 December 1999. Therefore, I request that
you take all necessary measures to ensure an accelerated acquisitions
program of servicemember DNA specimens to include active, reserve and guard
components for purposes of casualty DNA profile identification. A DNA sample
should be obtained from all new accessions; duplicate panographs will not be
taken on new accessions and no servicemember is to deploy without having a
DNA specimen on file. The DEERS Data Bank shall be used to ensure that
servicemembers do in fact have a DNA specimen on file. While updated
radiographs will continue to be part of a servicemember's medical/dental
record, no new radiographs will be received by the Repository, effective
this date.

Please provide me with a copy of your plan to implement this accelerated
request by 23 August 1996. The point of contact for this action is Captain
Glenn Wagner, Deputy Director, Armed Forces Institute of Pathology, (202)
782-2103. Colonel Salvatore M. Cirone is the OASD(HA) point of contact,
(703) 695-7116.


Stephen C. Joseph, M.D., M.P.H.

cc:
ASD(RA)

HA POLICY 96-051


**************************************************
[Related info regarding DNA samples from children]
**************************************************

New Guardian DNA Helps You Keep Your Baby Safe

DNA Identification System Places State-of-the-Art Technology into Parents
Hands
Worried about hospital mix-ups or infant/child abductions? Guardian DNA
Identification System consists of an easy-to-use DNA collection kit, an
instructional safety video, a DNA sample storage facility, a recording
system that provides for complete anonymity, and PIN/barcode security
feature so that only parent authorized access is possible. Guardian DNA uses
the same technology and methodology used by the U.S. Armed Forces.
Collection can be performed at-home at any age, but for added newborn
security parents will want to have one immediately after the birth. Retails
for $49.95. Available through select hospitals and physicians, or by calling
InVitro International at 1-800-246-8487 Ext. 230, or visit their web site at
http://www.invitrointl.com/guardian.htm/


--------------------------------------------------

http://www.yellodyno.com/html/dnahome.html

 "Parents will feel more secure knowing they have their child's
 DNA 'fingerprints' safely stored away."

    - Dr. Martin H. Smith, Pediatrician and former President of
      the American Academy of Pediatrics


DNA I.D. is, without question, the future of identification. For one thing,
DNA I.D. (also known as "genetic fingerprinting") is the only virtually
positive and permanent identification method. For example, photographs fade
and must be updated, and fingerprints can smear or be difficult to acquire
(getting a proper child's fingerprint can be very difficult), but each
person's DNA does not change for his entire life. DNA (deoxyribonucleic
acid) molecules are that part of the human physiology which carries the
genetic "blueprint" that makes each person unique. Each person's "genetic"
makeup is exclusive and never changes for their entire life. As such, "DNA
fingerprinting" can provide reliable identification even when it may be
impossible to recover a fingerprint. Further, DNA I.D. is generally
admissible in court, and can be invaluable in reuniting parents with their
children in the case of parental abductions, kidnappings, accidents, and
natural disasters.

DNA identification is now available to families in an easy-to-use, at-home
kit. With the "do-it-yourself" DNA I.D.Kit, it takes parents only minutes to
capture, preserve, and store-at-home their child's genetic "fingerprints."
Tens of thousands of parents are already keeping their children's "genes" at
home. The DNA I.D. Kit provides a way of properly taking, recording, and
storing genetic samples in a patented, tamper-proof system.

Yello Dyno says "O.K., this is where you might get a little 'squeemish,' but
read on, because this is really cool and easy ... and something every parent
needs to consider for their child (or any member of their family, for that
matter!). This is how it works."

The genetic material is derived from very small samples hair and blood. The
kit includes a virtually painless, spring-loaded, medical quality puncture
tool to help draw a few drops of blood from the finger, which is then placed
on a special absorptive paper card. After air drying for a little while, the
card is then placed in one of the special foil tamper-proof envelopes for
preserving and storing, on which personal information is recorded. If you
are too uncomfortable to use the puncture tool, the hair sample by itself
should suffice, which is stored and recorded the same way. Many parents just
take the kit to their pediatrician and have them draw the drops of blood.
Then, a personal information card on your child is filled out, including
attaching a picture. A fingerprint card is also included along with special
fingerprinting material and instructions. After you are done, everything is
then put in another, larger foil tamper-proof envelope and sealed. Personal
information is then recorded on the envelope and it is ready to be put in a
safe place. Unrefrigerated the samples should last for many years (they are
dry). Refrigeration will extend viability of samples much longer.
Unrefrigerated renewal is recommended once every five years.

Again, this patented system is a way of properly taking, storing, and
preserving genetic samples, not the actual test. If the DNA sample is ever
needed to make a genetic match the process is usually initiated by law
enforcement or some other agency. (Beware of suggestions to "make your own
DNA I.D." While storing DNA samples at home can be simple with a specially
made medical product like this, it can be completely ineffective without the
right procedures.) The DNA I.D. Kit can also be a part of your at-home fact
file. By combining an up-to-date child I.D. card and the DNA I.D. Kit,
parents can have a valuable child identification system.

DNA is so important to the future of identification that it is already being
used by the FBI and the U.S. Armed Forces. In fact, DNA I.D. is the
preferred method of identification for law enforcement, as seen in more and
more court cases recently. "DNA Analysis . . . is considered the most
important advance in forensics since fingerprinting. Its use in U.S. courts
has skyrocketed from 14 cases by the end of 1987 to 12,000 by mid-1993,"
according to an article in the Austin-American Statesman in June 1994. The
FBI is implementing a national DNA database, called CODIS, to track people
by their DNA. The U.S. Army started a genetic depository in 1992 that will
eventually include the DNA of every American in uniform. The U.S. Army's
goal is to have no more "unknown soldiers." DNA is also already being used
to identify missing children. For example, in December, 1993, a two-year old
was returned to his parents two years after being kidnapped - only after
police established scientifically who the child was by using "genetic
fingerprinting."

If you are ever separated from your child and time passes, DNA analysis is
probably the only way of making a virtually fool-proof identification. This
remarkable kit provides you with the tools you need.

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2) it is consistent with what you already know to be true.
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 08:36:30 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: RE: Bic-Assassins Convicted
Message-ID: <5F152E6E8E6FD21195DF00104B2425AD02B22A@yarrowbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Typical statist media skewing by entangling allegations, accusation,
speculation and acquitted charges with real convicted charges.

--- [revised]

    Two men convicted of sending threatening email

    BROWNSVILLE, Texas (AP) -- Johnie Wise, 72, and Jack Abbott 
    Grebe, 43, were convicted Thursday of two counts of sending 
    threatening e-mails -- one message to the Internal Revenue 
    Service and one to the Drug Enforcement Agency. 

    They could get life in prison at their Jan. 29 sentencing. 

---
  United States Constitution

   Amendment VIII - Excessive bail or fines and cruel punishment prohibited.
Ratified 12/15/1791.

   Excessive bail shall not lie required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor
cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.
---


Life imprisonment for sending threatening email? If IRS or DEA agents
threaten someone by email, do they face life imprisonment, or just the other
way around?

	Matt





-----Original Article-----

CNN

http://www.cnn.com/US/9810/30/weapons.case.ap/

Two men convicted in biological weapons case

October 30, 1998

Web posted at: 3:10 a.m. EST (0810 GMT) 

BROWNSVILLE, Texas (AP) -- Two men accused of scheming to 
attack President Clinton and others with cigarette lighters 
equipped with poison-coated cactus needles were convicted 
of sending threatening e-mail. 

Johnie Wise, 72, and Jack Abbott Grebe, 43, were convicted 
Thursday of two counts of sending threatening e-mails -- one 
message to the Internal Revenue Service and one to the Drug 
Enforcement Agency. 

Grebe and Wise were acquitted on one count each of conspiracy 
to use weapons of mass destruction count and five counts each 
of sending threatening messages -- to President Clinton, U.S. 
Customs, the FBI, the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms, 
and the Secret Service. 

They could get life in prison at their Jan. 29 sentencing. 

Prosecutors said Wise schemed to modify a cigarette lighter 
so it would shoot cactus needles coated with toxins such as 
rabies, botulism, anthrax or HIV. 

Defense attorneys called idea 'silly'

Among the men's alleged targets: Clinton, the U.S. and Texas 
attorneys general, and FBI Director Louis Freeh. 

Defense attorneys called the idea "silly" and "cockamamie." 
There was never any evidence that the accused possessed 
biological weapons or tried to develop a deadly lighter. The 
e-mailed threats were vaguely worded and did not discuss the 
lighter or cactus thorns. 

Under federal law, however, the threats were enough for a 
conviction and no biological weapons were needed, prosecutors 
said. 

The men would have carried out their plan to hurt government 
employees and their families if they hadn't been arrested, 
Assistant U.S. Attorney Mervyn Mosbacker said. 

Wise and Grebe were accused of concocting the plan to threaten 
government officials with e-mails. One e-mail, sent June 12, 
was titled "Declaration of War" and a second one, sent June 26, 
said government workers had been "targeted for destruction by 
revenge." 

A third defendant, Oliver Dean Emigh, 63, was acquitted on all 
counts. He was accused of writing the June 12 message, but the 
charges against the men stemmed from the June 26 e-mail.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 08:15:10 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: dbts: Lions and TEMPESTs and Black Helicopters (Oh, My!)
In-Reply-To: <363DF8EB.24CF@lsil.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 1:24 PM -0500 on 11/2/98, Mr. Motyka vamps on Mr. May in cypherpunks:

> > VERY FEW PEOPLE CARE ABOUT SECURITY.
> >
> Since they don't have anything to hide, why should they worry? Argh.
> ergo - if they're hiding something they are guilty of something. Bust
> the doors down boys.

Naaawww.... It's not so bad as all that...

Remember, fairly soon now, if not already, we'll be storing *lots* of
encrypted data on our disks, not only in the form of encrypted,
controlled-play software, or proprietary company information, or infotainment
(however long *that* lasts), but also in the form of encrypted passwords,
private keys, and, of course, digital bearer certificates ;-).

In addition, every time you do a book-entry transaction, you're perforce
(heh...) using an encrypted link with at least SSL, and, at some point, people
will demand much cheaper and faster internet-level encryption ala IPSEC to
move their money (and their other bits worth money) around. Or they'll be
required to by their employers in various VPN/WAN systems. Or, frankly,
they'll just do it without knowing it anyway, because their TCP/IP apps will
be IPV6 (or something) compliant.

Everyone here who does this stuff for a living knows that the amount of
horsepower necessary to decrypt all those different kinds of encrypted stuff,
even the weak stuff, is going to be positively prohibitive (instead of
permitted? ;-)), since it all has different keys, lots of which are long gone.
IPSEC keys, for instance, are positively disposable, and, if it's done right
- -- which it will be, because nobody wants to lose *money*, after all --
the encrypted packets will originate at the client, and not the router, so all
that "private doorbell" stuff is just a smokescreen for what is going to be
superencrypted data anyway.

And, of course, we all know now that KRAP / neé Key Escrow / neé GAK / neé Key
Recovery / neé Clipper is logically, much less physically, impossible. Don't
ask me, ask the likes of Diffie, and Rivest, and Schneier, et alia. All the
"legislation" in the world ain't gonna change that, right?


Digital Commerce is Financial Cryptography, folks.

F=MA. It ain't just for physicists anymore...


The black helicopters aren't flying over the hill any time soon, boys and
girls. Why? Because, if they tried, soon enough, they couldn't afford the gas
for a return visit. Their erstwhile tax revenue, like most money, being
fungible and all, is, or soon will be, quite easy enough to bug out into the
cyphersphere with. After all, who's to tell one encrypted blop of bits from
another?

"Awwwww, C'Monnnn. Niiiice taxpayer. Staaaaay. *Don't* go anywhere.
Pleeeeease?"


A cowardly lion indeed.


Cheers,
Bob Hettinga

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.5.5

iQEVAwUBNj4wNcUCGwxmWcHhAQEsewf9GbZ2OxeczWZzeNAuBwBm+PlWvZAdOmml
UYmik/U4s41x310HtXdPg2ixnUJ/i67rWXYGHeGeAZrbn0IYH69dM7l0qSROSHnM
dDMLA18nZjIy1XKzcG0yrRfsbLKtfFpe3Y4SN8dHoTRKzzfoskhmQJWu9/2twVKi
Y3gFgd5Qawu4a23jmMOGRJ1pLUpo9jjTu2qs8uA0Q42aeWcm4Zm1QhaK9/9FV9Sm
FkbHTgzK6RwaLiKySkqf22KNsy6WLa9ypVLK03tMrJNgILqY2S3xxoM/2EOhf+FF
5yt16/bABw3YvS8WWp2PkmHMn1rxXgBy1iodioFI79Cf35Yu36/O4Q==
=GPbv
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 10:40:16 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: RE: Bic-Assassins Convicted (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199811030021.SAA02609@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 4:21 PM -0800 11/2/98, Jim Choate wrote:
>Forwarded message:
>
>> From: Matthew James Gering 
>> Subject: RE: Bic-Assassins Convicted
>> Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 15:57:43 -0800
>
>>     BROWNSVILLE, Texas (AP) -- Johnie Wise, 72, and Jack Abbott
>>     Grebe, 43, were convicted Thursday of two counts of sending
>>     threatening e-mails -- one message to the Internal Revenue
>>     Service and one to the Drug Enforcement Agency.
>>
>>     They could get life in prison at their Jan. 29 sentencing.
>
>I have a question, if they had threatened just a plain old citizen with
>this email would they also be facing this life imprisonment?
>

A very good point.

I've had cretins make death threats against me, threats which were probably
more realizable than these "Bic assassins" were fantasizing about, yet I'm
sure the local cops would have told me to chill out and just let it ride
had I brought the threats to their attention.

It sure is looking, pace this case and the Bell and CJ cases, that the
courts are being put at the service of government employees who feel
threatened.

--Tim May

Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash.
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 09:08:33 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: Bic-Assassins Convicted (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811030021.SAA02609@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: Matthew James Gering 
> Subject: RE: Bic-Assassins Convicted
> Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 15:57:43 -0800 

>     BROWNSVILLE, Texas (AP) -- Johnie Wise, 72, and Jack Abbott 
>     Grebe, 43, were convicted Thursday of two counts of sending 
>     threatening e-mails -- one message to the Internal Revenue 
>     Service and one to the Drug Enforcement Agency. 
> 
>     They could get life in prison at their Jan. 29 sentencing. 

I have a question, if they had threatened just a plain old citizen with
this email would they also be facing this life imprisonment?


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Lucky Green" 
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 11:17:40 +0800
To: 
Subject: s-format file converter?
Message-ID: <000d01be06d4$f42d5e80$33248bd0@luckylaptop.c2.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I need to convert some files stored in Motorola s-format (widely used for
input into EPROM burners) to a binary blob of data my debugger can read. I
know there is a GNU utility that supports converting to and from s-format
and a wide variety of other file formats, but a web search turned up empty.

If you know where to find such a utility for UNIX, please let me know.

Thanks,
--Lucky Green 
  PGP 5.x  encrypted email preferred




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 12:36:34 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: dbts: Lions and TEMPESTs and Black Helicopters (Oh, My!)
Message-ID: <363E80C1.4084@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> "Awwwww, C'Monnnn. Niiiice taxpayer. Staaaaay. *Don't* go anywhere.
> Pleeeeease?"
>
***

By and large I agree with you, the fears of TotalControl(tm) are largely
unfounded. Abuses do exist. Always have.

***

These unregulated virtual economies need to conduct trade with
ActualPhysicalSpace. The interface is where the control will be exerted.
If you can't safely convert your LibertE$ to physical goods their value
will be quite low. Participation will be limited.

Also, as the TaxAorta becomes occluded the TaxDoctors will have to
devote more energy and use more drastic methods to keep the flow going. 

Mike




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 10:29:18 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: RE: Bic-Assassins Convicted (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199811030021.SAA02609@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <199811030150.UAA07116@camel14.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate asked:

>If they had threatened just a plain old citizen with this 
>email would they also be facing this life imprisonment?

Apparently the charges would have been the same if made 
against any 

  "person within the United States, and the results of such 
  use affect interstate or foreign commerce or, in the case 
  of a threat, attempt, or conspiracy, would have affected 
  interstate or foreign commerce." (see below)

The use of E-mail was incidental to the charges of both 
conspiracy and threatening to use weapons of mass destruction:

  18:2332(a)(2) and (c)(2)(C). Conspiracy to use a weapon 
  of mass destruction against person(s) w/in the U.S. 
  the results of which affected interstate & foreign 
  commerce.  Offense dates:  3/24/98 - 6/30/98.  Penalty:  
  Any term of years or for life, $250,000, 5 yrs SRT.  (1)

  18:2332a(a)(2) and (c)(2)(C) and 2.  Threatening to use a
  weapon of mass destruction. Offense date:  6/26/98
  Penalty:  any term of years or Proceedings include all events.
  for life, $250,000, 5 yrs SRT as to ea ct. (2 - 8)

The eight counts are for the one count of conspiracy and
threats against seven federal agencies ("employees and
families"):

  The President
  ATF
  FBI
  DEA
  IRS
  Secret Service
  Custom Service

----------

The crimes are defined in 18 USC 2332a, below.

Source: http://law.house.gov/usc.htm

----------

TITLE 18 - CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
PART I - CRIMES

CHAPTER 113B - TERRORISM

Sec. 2332a. Use of weapons of mass destruction

 (a) Offense Against a National of the United States or Within the
United States. - A person who, without lawful authority, uses,
threatens, or attempts or conspires to use, a weapon of mass

destruction, including any biological agent, toxin, or vector (as
those terms are defined in section 178) -

   (2) against any person within the United States, and the
  results of such use affect interstate or foreign commerce or, in
  the case of a threat, attempt, or conspiracy, would have affected
  interstate or foreign commerce;

----------

 (c) Definitions. - For purposes of this section -

   (2) the term ''weapon of mass destruction'' means -

      (A) any destructive device as defined in section 921 of this
     title;

      (B) any weapon that is designed or intended to cause death or
     serious bodily injury through the release, dissemination, or
     impact of toxic or poisonous chemicals, or their precursors;

      (C) any weapon involving a disease organism; or

      (D) any weapon that is designed to release radiation or
     radioactivity at a level dangerous to human life.

----------

CHAPTER 10 - BIOLOGICAL WEAPONS
Sec. 178. Definitions

  As used in this chapter -

    (1) the term ''biological agent'' means any micro-organism,
  virus, infectious substance, or biological product that may be
  engineered as a result of biotechnology, or any naturally
  occurring or bioengineered component of any such microorganism,
  virus, infectious substance, or biological product, capable of
  causing -

      (A) death, disease, or other biological malfunction in a
    human, an animal, a plant, or another living organism;

      (B) deterioration of food, water, equipment, supplies, or
    material of any kind; or

      (C) deleterious alteration of the environment;

    (2) the term ''toxin'' means the toxic material of plants,
  animals, microorganisms, viruses, fungi, or infectious
  substances, or a recombinant molecule, whatever its origin or
  method of production, including -

      (A) any poisonous substance or biological product that may be
    engineered as a result of biotechnology produced by a living
    organism; or

      (B) any poisonous isomer or biological product, homolog, or
    derivative of such a substance;

    (3) the term ''delivery system'' means -

      (A) any apparatus, equipment, device, or means of delivery
    specifically designed to deliver or disseminate a biological
    agent, toxin, or vector; or

      (B) any vector;

    (4) the term ''vector'' means a living organism, or molecule,
  including a recombinant molecule, or biological product that may
  be engineered as a result of biotechnology, capable of carrying a
  biological agent or toxin to a host; and

    (5) the term ''national of the United States'' has the meaning
  prescribed in section 101(a)(22) of the Immigration and
  Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(22)).

----------

Crime of 18 USC 2 not shown.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 11:21:14 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: Bic-Assassins Convicted (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811030242.UAA02938@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 20:41:24 -0500
> From: John Young 
> Subject: RE: Bic-Assassins Convicted (fwd)

> Jim Choate asked:
> 
> >If they had threatened just a plain old citizen with this 
> >email would they also be facing this life imprisonment?
> 
> Apparently the charges would have been the same if made 
> against any 
> 
>   "person within the United States, and the results of such 
>   use affect interstate or foreign commerce or, in the case 
>   of a threat, attempt, or conspiracy, would have affected 
>   interstate or foreign commerce." (see below)

Ok, exactly how would their threat effect inter-state commerce?

> The use of E-mail was incidental to the charges of both 
> conspiracy and threatening to use weapons of mass destruction:
> 
>   18:2332(a)(2) and (c)(2)(C). Conspiracy to use a weapon 
>   of mass destruction against person(s) w/in the U.S. 
>   the results of which affected interstate & foreign 
>   commerce.  Offense dates:  3/24/98 - 6/30/98.  Penalty:  
>   Any term of years or for life, $250,000, 5 yrs SRT.  (1)

Conspiracy requires active steps, not simply talking about it. As I
understand it the conspiracy and weapons of mass destructions charges were
given a not-guilty by the jury. No proof was presented that they had ever
even bought a bic lighter to test with. Hell, even going to the bookstore
and buying a book or the library and checking one out is protected under the
Constitution. It takes more than talk to generate a conspiracy.

>   18:2332a(a)(2) and (c)(2)(C) and 2.  Threatening to use a
>   weapon of mass destruction. Offense date:  6/26/98
>   Penalty:  any term of years or Proceedings include all events.
>   for life, $250,000, 5 yrs SRT as to ea ct. (2 - 8)

If we're going to go by this then the US government is already guilty re
their plan to destroy various contraband plants via genetic weapons. If you
think that won't effect inter-state & international commerce you better
think again.

And they've gone a lot farther than just talking about it in email. Congress
has spent millions on it over the last few years.

> The eight counts are for the one count of conspiracy and
> threats against seven federal agencies ("employees and
> families"):
> 
>   The President
>   ATF
>   FBI
>   DEA
>   IRS
>   Secret Service
>   Custom Service

Ok, so my question still stands what if these had been actual people instead
of government agencies? The charges are *NOT* for threatening individuals
who happen to be government agents, oh no, they're for threatening
government *agencies* a whole different ball game ('The President' is an
office not a person).

> CHAPTER 113B - TERRORISM
> 
> Sec. 2332a. Use of weapons of mass destruction
> 
>  (a) Offense Against a National of the United States or Within the
> United States. - A person who, without lawful authority, uses,
> threatens, or attempts or conspires to use, a weapon of mass
> destruction, including any biological agent, toxin, or vector (as
> those terms are defined in section 178) -

Where is 'lawful authority' defined?

>    (2) against any person within the United States, and the
>   results of such use affect interstate or foreign commerce or, in
>   the case of a threat, attempt, or conspiracy, would have affected
>   interstate or foreign commerce;

I covered this one already.

>  (c) Definitions. - For purposes of this section -
> 
>    (2) the term ''weapon of mass destruction'' means -
> 
>       (A) any destructive device as defined in section 921 of this
>      title;
> 
>       (B) any weapon that is designed or intended to cause death or
>      serious bodily injury through the release, dissemination, or
>      impact of toxic or poisonous chemicals, or their precursors;
> 
>       (C) any weapon involving a disease organism; or

So if I go out and sneeze on somebody I've committed an attack using a
weapon of mass destruction?

>       (D) any weapon that is designed to release radiation or
>      radioactivity at a level dangerous to human life.

Where is the definition of 'mass' in there? Hell, just about anything
qualifies under this definition. It doesn't even require the death of 1
single individual (it doesn't even require it to be lethal).

Oh, *all* radiation is harmful to human life.

> CHAPTER 10 - BIOLOGICAL WEAPONS
> Sec. 178. Definitions
> 
>   As used in this chapter -
> 
>     (1) the term ''biological agent'' means any micro-organism,
>   virus, infectious substance, or biological product that may be
>   engineered as a result of biotechnology, or any naturally
>   occurring or bioengineered component of any such microorganism,
>   virus, infectious substance, or biological product, capable of
>   causing -
> 
>       (A) death, disease, or other biological malfunction in a
>     human, an animal, a plant, or another living organism;

Well this certainly covers each and every effect of a pathogen on a
biological system (I particularly like the way they've covered their butts
for ET.... 'another living organism'. Not to mention that cleaning your
kitchen counter qualifies under this statute.

>       (B) deterioration of food, water, equipment, supplies, or
>     material of any kind; or
> 
>       (C) deleterious alteration of the environment;

Well at least they've set themselves up for their anti-drug pathogen
program.

>     (2) the term ''toxin'' means the toxic material of plants,

Can you say circular defintion, I thought you could. This sentence say
nothing.

>   animals, microorganisms, viruses, fungi, or infectious
>   substances, or a recombinant molecule, whatever its origin or
>   method of production, including -
> 
>       (A) any poisonous substance or biological product that may be
>     engineered as a result of biotechnology produced by a living
>     organism; or
> 
>       (B) any poisonous isomer or biological product, homolog, or
>     derivative of such a substance;

This of course happens to cover plain old water (re 'whatever its origin or
method of preduction').

>     (3) the term ''delivery system'' means -
> 
>       (A) any apparatus, equipment, device, or means of delivery
>     specifically designed to deliver or disseminate a biological
>     agent, toxin, or vector; or
> 
>       (B) any vector;
> 
>     (4) the term ''vector'' means a living organism, or molecule,
>   including a recombinant molecule, or biological product that may
>   be engineered as a result of biotechnology, capable of carrying a
>   biological agent or toxin to a host; and

Next time I get food-poisoning at a restaraunt it's comforting to know that
the federal government will be right there to prosecute under this
particular statute...

Geesh.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 11:25:35 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: s-format file converter? (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811030250.UAA03074@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: "Lucky Green" 
> Subject: s-format file converter?
> Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 18:52:11 -0800

> I need to convert some files stored in Motorola s-format (widely used for
> input into EPROM burners) to a binary blob of data my debugger can read. I
> know there is a GNU utility that supports converting to and from s-format
> and a wide variety of other file formats, but a web search turned up empty.
> 
> If you know where to find such a utility for UNIX, please let me know.

Geesh. If you know it's GNU then it makes some sense to check gnu.org now
wouldn't it?

You might also want to check out the 'frankenstein' set of cross-assemblers
as they handle a wide variety of targets and file formats.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 11:43:31 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: CJ & a potential out...
Message-ID: <199811030301.VAA03145@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



It occurs to me that since the court saw fit to assign an attorney over CJ's
objection he may have constitutional grounds to have his arrest and the
consequential proceedings overturned.

The Constitution says that a person has a right to counsil if the issue at
hand is worth more than $20. It doesn't say the court must appoint one and
it most certainly doesn't say a defendent requires one. Since the
Constitution leaves the issue up to the defendant any action that is
contrary to their desires is un-constitutional. The 10th prohibits
these sorts of excess or self-appointed authority.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: DOOM Anonymous Untraceable User 
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 05:05:28 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Seeking CDSA source code reference implementation
Message-ID: <199811022025.VAA06813@rogue.seclab.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I am searching for a source code reference implementation of the CDSA V2.0 standard
as published by the Open Group. I know that a freely available implementation has been
released by IBM (MIT Jonah PKIX Freeware, can be downloaded from http://web.mit.edu/pfl) 
but this is legally accessible only for US citizen.

I have tried to spot the CDSA source but have not found anything up to now.

Has this software found its way outside the US yet? I'd like to put my fingers on it
without actually breaking fed laws... 


Thanx.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 13:52:53 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: A Motorola site w/ potentialy relevant info (S-Records)
Message-ID: <199811030510.XAA03557@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> X-within-URL: http://www.mcu.motsps.com/freeweb/amcu_ndx.html

>    as-080.dp 43197 Mar 30 94 Understanding S-Records & Downloading

>    XASMHC11.MAC 49024 Mar 30 94 This is the Motorola Free cross-
>    assembler ported to the Mac by Georgia Tech. Use MacBinary to download
>    this Macintosh application. [Uploaded by Jim Sibigtroth.]

>    AN1060Q.BAS> 8083 Mar 30 94 This is the BASIC source code for AN1060.
>    This program allows S-records to be downloaded & programmed into a
>    M68HC711E9 EPROM/MCU (OTP also). This program was written in
>    QuickBasic and works with a MAC or a PC. [Uploaded by Jim Sibigtroth.]

>    as32v1-2.zip 52176 Mar 30 94 Latest rev. of CPU32 Freeware assembler
>    for PC. Minor bug fixes. Now generates symbol table for BD32
>    background mode debugger.

>    asembler.arc 42839 Mar 30 94 source files for cross assemblers and
>    doc.

>    as0.c 214 Mar 30 94 --+ source code for assemblers:

>    eval.c 4089 Mar 30 94 | source code common to all assemblers

>    downld.doc 1417 Mar 30 94 1.2 Downloading S-Records Hints (RCV cmd)

>    downldpc.doc 20075 Mar 30 94 1.4 Download S-Recs w/IBM-PC,
>    Kermit/ProComm

>    libsrc11.arc 35692 Mar 30 94 n/a M68HC11 Cross C Compiler Library
>    Source The above.archive file contains all the library source files
>    for the HC11 Cross C Compiler (MS-DOS and System V).

>    sack.sa 651 Mar 30 94 1.1 S-Record Acknowledge Program (Pascal)


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 13:51:11 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Frankenstein should be avail. for Unix (S-Records)
Message-ID: <199811030512.XAA03612@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> X-within-URL: http://vanbc.wimsey.com/~danf/cbm/cross-development.html

>    $ Cross-32 V2.0 Meta Assembler [DOS] (Universal Cross-Assemblers)
>           Table-based absolute macro cross assembler using manufacturer's
>           assembly mnemonics. Supports macros and conditional assembly.
>           Uses C language arithmetic and logical operators. Includes
>           tables for 6502, 65C02, 65816 and >40 other CPUs and can be
>           expanded to even more. Generates Intel hex, Motorola S hex and
>           binary output. Expensive (~$200).
>           On-line program information is available.
>           On-line program information is available.
>            (demo version)

>    Frankenstein Cross Assemblers [source,DOS,UNIX] (1990, Mark Zenier)
>           No macros, relocatable linkers, fancy print controls or
>           structured control statments. Source code in Yacc and C
>           included. Executables are called as6502, as65c00 and asr65c00.
>           On-line program information is available.
>           On-line program information is available.
>           Available from the C Users' Group Library, disk #335.
>                      901206.02/3/4, 901209.07/8>
>           


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 16:15:23 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: Bic-Assassins Convicted (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199811030242.UAA02938@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981102233532.008b2d80@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 08:42 PM 11/2/98 -0600, Jim Choate wrote, though not in this order:
>>  (c) Definitions. - For purposes of this section -
>>    (2) the term ''weapon of mass destruction'' means - [...]
>>       (B) any weapon that is designed or intended to cause death or
>>      serious bodily injury through the release, dissemination, or
>>      impact of toxic or poisonous chemicals, or their precursors;
>>       (C) any weapon involving a disease organism; or
...
>Where is the definition of 'mass' in there? Hell, just about anything
>qualifies under this definition. It doesn't even require the death of 1
>single individual (it doesn't even require it to be lethal).

My reading is the same as yours -
the law was written carelessly, and wrong (unless JYA forgot the paragraph defining
"mass" as "intended to kill more than N people", but it doesn't look like it.)
That means that any chemical weapon, including your can of mace or pepper spray,
that might be construed as causing "serious bodily injury",
makes you a terrorist using weapons of mass destruction.
Might get worse - lead _is_ toxic, and causes injury by impact.
It's a bad law, and it's going to be abused, and this case is 
a great one for the Feds to use to set bad precedent with,
since the Republic of Texas are a bunch of incompetent wackos.

>> CHAPTER 113B - TERRORISM
>> Sec. 2332a. Use of weapons of mass destruction
>>  (a) Offense Against a National of the United States or Within the
>> United States. - A person who, without lawful authority, uses,
>> threatens, or attempts or conspires to use, a weapon of mass
>> destruction, including any biological agent, toxin, or vector (as
>> those terms are defined in section 178) -
>
>Where is 'lawful authority' defined?

Not sure, but it means that the Feds aren't terrorists if _they_
threaten or conspire to use weapons of mass destruction,
but you would be if you did.  It also probably means that 
foreign governments aren't covered here, but foreign NGOs are,
e.g. the IRA.

>> interstate commerce
The standard clause used to give the Feds jurisdiction over things;
given Roosevelt-era courts deciding that a farmer feeding his own grain
to his own hogs affects interstate commerce, surely email or the
World Wide Web counts as interstate, as does killing anybody
who might cross state lines or buy some product that does.
(Of course, given the number of politicians who are for sale,
removing a few of them from the market can pretty legitimately
be called affecting interstate commerce :-)



				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Narayan Raghu 
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 18:56:47 +0800
To: Robert Hettinga 
Subject: new 448 bit key by Indian firm
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <363E2E8F.EE570559@geocities.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Hello, 

Sorry for any cross-posting.
Just thought this group would be interested in this new s/w.
The most startling thing about it is the price Rs. 1,650. (approx US$
40) per copy ...

I'll be at the Bangalore IT fair morrow, and will try to give a first
hand update of this stuff after meeting with the reps. 

http://www.timesofindia.com/031198/03mban19.htm

            Indian firm unveils 448-bit encryption
            package 
	    It is called EMD Armor -- an award-winning
            encryption software package using a powerful 448-bit key,
            developed by an Indian company. It beats the United
States 	    at its
            own game, for, even today, US companies are not allowed to
            export encryption software that uses keys higher than
128             bits.

-- snip ----

	    EMD Armor, which is used to secure your personal computer,
            also goes by the name of Sigma 2000. It has picked up the
            Editors Choice award. The product range covers security for
            PCs, e-mail, networks. `Our product combines the highest key
            strength, fast encryption speed (60 MB per minute), and 	   
online
            encryption. That means non-encyrpted data is never stored on
            your hard disk. Anything that is there is
encrypted. 	                Complete  security,'' says Kundu.

-- snip -- 
	    K. Kundu, Signitron India Director, an IIT Kharagpur alumni,
            told The Times of India that the key algorithm they
have 	    used is
            `Blowfish', developed by cryptography guru Bruce Schneir.



regards,
narry




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: totaltel@total.emap.com
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 11:43:46 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: ITU In Knots Over Accounting Rates
Message-ID: <98Nov3.035048gmt.28558@ebc-fw-01.emap.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Welcome to the Total Telecom news update.

http://www.totaltele.com

-------------------------------------

today's top story:-

ITU In Knots Over Accounting Rates

Developed and developing countries were in a deadlock over how to reform the international accounting rate system at the International Telecommunication Union Plenipotentiary Conference in Minneapolis ....

http://www.totaltele.com/news/view.asp?ArticleID=20393&Pub=tt

*****************************************

Total Telecom - site update

As part of a larger effort to improve the service, we have moved Total Telecom to a new server and database over the weekend.  This should result in faster download times and improved searches for our readers.

However, as a result, a few readers may experience a few problems entering the site.  We apologize for any inconvenience.  Please email us if you are experiencing any difficulties.

webmaster@total.emap.com

*****************************************

current Total Telecom headlines include.....

Cegetel Subdued by Slow Uptake and ART's Ruling

Cegetel Entreprises, the corporate user division of France's second telecoms operator, is braced for heavy losses this year due to slower than expected customer uptake and France Telecom's aggressive ........

http://www.totaltele.com/news/view.asp?ArticleID=20394&Pub=tt
------------------

Pay-Per-Slot Likely for Satellite Reform

The International Telecommunication Union Plenipotentiary conference in Minneapolis will this week hear a proposal to break a 10-nation stranglehold on world satellite systems. Under the plan, still ......

http://www.totaltele.com/news/view.asp?ArticleID=20397&Pub=tt
----------------

First Pacific in Talks to Buy More PLDT Shares

First Pacific Co. said it bought a "strategic stake" in Philippine Long Distance Telephone Co. and may buy more, transactions that will cost at least $724 million. First Pacific, a Hong Kong-based in 

http://www.totaltele.com/news/view.asp?ArticleID=20396&Pub=tt

---------------

France Telecom to Sell 15% Stake of Greece's Panafon in IPO

Panafon SA, Greece's largest mobile phone company, said France Telecom SA will sell a 15% stake in the company through an initial public offering that may raise as much as $600 million. Panafon, 55%-......
 
http://www.totaltele.com/news/view.asp?ArticleID=20395&Pub=tt

----------------

plus

NTT President Apologizes for Service Break in Osaka

Diax Mobile Phone Services May Not Start Until February

Iridium to Begin Satellite-Phone Network Sunday 

AsiaSat Owners Discuss Reshuffle of Holdings: C&W May Exit

Deutsche Telekom Hit by New Price War

ITU Plenipot 98 Plays Paper Satellite Ping-Pong

US Bids for Internet Domain Name Control

.....go to the front page for the full list of headlines

http://www.totaltele.com

********************************************

If you wish to be removed from future mailings, please reply 
with "Remove" in the subject line and we will automatically block you from this list.

Thank you for reading Total Telecom





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Lucky Green 
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 12:17:39 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: s-format file converter? (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199811030250.UAA03074@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Mon, 2 Nov 1998, Jim Choate wrote:

> 
> Forwarded message:
> 
> > From: "Lucky Green" 
> > Subject: s-format file converter?
> > Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 18:52:11 -0800
> 
> > I need to convert some files stored in Motorola s-format (widely used for
> > input into EPROM burners) to a binary blob of data my debugger can read. I
> > know there is a GNU utility that supports converting to and from s-format
> > and a wide variety of other file formats, but a web search turned up empty.
> > 
> > If you know where to find such a utility for UNIX, please let me know.
> 
> Geesh. If you know it's GNU then it makes some sense to check gnu.org now
> wouldn't it?

Which is of course what I did before sending my inquiry to the list. Nada.
 
> You might also want to check out the 'frankenstein' set of cross-assemblers
> as they handle a wide variety of targets and file formats.

Hmm, I can find them only for MSDOS. Do you have a pointer to a UNIX
version?

Thanks,

-- Lucky Green  PGP v5 encrypted email preferred.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 14:18:23 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: instruments of liberation (continuing 'fear' thread)
Message-ID: <199811030549.GAA22305@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




At 11:22 PM 11/1/98 -0800, Tim May wrote:
>"Wired News" carried an article reporting on a plan to  (somehow) spread


Wired recently had pix/columns on Rivest and Schneier.  This is 
how crypto will get into the popmind: through sophisticated deadtrees like
this read by propeller heads *and* suits.  The Cryptos talk of
the economy, of keeping crackers out, of personal privacy.  The
list of good uses will grow.  

The Fascistas will be stuck with only their dealers and the 
vaporrists, vapornappers, vaporophiles they will continue
to worship.

Eventually, the Sheeple will grok what's being argued over.
The rest depends on your optimism level.


--Wasted Hellions Trace my Bugs








  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 21:57:10 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: Bic-Assassins Convicted (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811031315.HAA04306@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 23:35:32 -0800
> From: Bill Stewart 
> Subject: RE: Bic-Assassins Convicted (fwd)

> >Where is 'lawful authority' defined?
> 
> Not sure, but it means that the Feds aren't terrorists if _they_
> threaten or conspire to use weapons of mass destruction,
> but you would be if you did.  It also probably means that 
> foreign governments aren't covered here, but foreign NGOs are,
> e.g. the IRA.

That's truly funny....

"We the people in order to form a more perfect union...."

How does the federal government gain priviliges and immunities (ala 16th)
that aren't defined in the Constitution or an amendment? (see 9th and 10th)

> >> interstate commerce
> The standard clause used to give the Feds jurisdiction over things;
> given Roosevelt-era courts deciding that a farmer feeding his own grain
> to his own hogs affects interstate commerce, surely email or the
> World Wide Web counts as interstate, as does killing anybody
> who might cross state lines or buy some product that does.
> (Of course, given the number of politicians who are for sale,
> removing a few of them from the market can pretty legitimately
> be called affecting interstate commerce :-)

Read the last sentence of the rubber-clause.....any action or law that
derives from it is required to respect the remainder of the Constitution in
full (simply crossing a state border doesn't annul the Constitution). Since
that includes the 9th and 10th (in toto) they have themselves a quandry.

Personaly, I would trust an individual handling these technologies before
I'd trust a bunch of power-happy gun-toting morons acting in concert who's
answer to everything is "my boss told me to do it" and willingly deny their
duties as individual citizens in order to play their three-initial games.

I saw a comment the other day that the government (those who support these
world views I suppose) doesn't trust the people. I wonder why after reading
laws that are this poorly constructed. Whatever the hell the intent was it
wasn't to protect life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.



    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 22:13:44 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: VANGUARD:  An Election About Nothing? (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811031321.HAA04373@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Subject: VANGUARD:  An Election About Nothing?
> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 98 00:35:09 -0600
> From: Vanguard 

> 
>                       AN ELECTION ABOUT NOTHING?
>                            30 October 1998 
> 
>                     Copyright 1998, Rod D. Martin 
> 
>                    "The Vanguard of the Revolution"
>                            National Edition 

> An election is at hand, and yet again, the vast majority will not
> vote.  Just as they have shown a complete disinterest in the
> character of the President, they will Tuesday show a total lack of
> concern for the fate of their country.  For them, this is the
> Seinfeld election:  an election about nothing.
> 
> It is just as well that such nincompoops won't vote; and yet it is
> a sorry commentary on the state of our body politic that so few
> understand, that so few even care.  Another fatal disaster just
> this month, this time in Taft, California, shows us again just why
> it is so tragic.

Perhaps they're not stupid. Perhaps their not nin-compoops, but rather you are
for assigning any value to the entire process.

It is a standard litany of conventional science to choose the lesser of two
evils. Perhaps the lesser of two evils in this corrupted, Constitutionaly
bereft system is *NOT TO PARTICIPATE*. Sine it obviously doesn't matter who
wins, since the mighty spectre of compromise will dilute any real difference
into a verbal shell game devoid of meaning. Maby deToquville (sorry for
spelling - early morning) was right about mediocrity being the result of
democracy, except in one fine point. It won't be the people as a whole but
rather those who are too stupid and wedded to outmoded ideals to change. The
social and political dinosaurs if you will.

Maby the polls where drunk dwarves win over 'serious' candidates is actualy
demonstrating the absurdity of those who insist their issue are serious.
Perhaps people are finaly seeing that these nin-compoops who want the
political power in this country are simply blind to a social and economic
change in the winds.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 21:56:17 +0800
To: Michael Motyka 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 11:04 PM -0500 on 11/2/98, Michael Motyka lobs a low, slow one, over the
plate:


> These unregulated virtual economies need to conduct trade with
> ActualPhysicalSpace.

Oh. That's easy. Check out the essay section of 
for a good prima facie underwriting model for digital bearer instruments,
expecially the model map.

Render unto FinCEN. No problem. Flatland can't reach the sky no matter how
hard they try. (hey. I'm rapping... pbbbt. tht. pbbbt. pbbbt. tht... :-))


Cheers,
Bob

-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 23:29:20 +0800
To: franl@world.std.com
Subject: Re: Is CP mail to me bouncing?
In-Reply-To: <36421188.327490806@roadrunner.pictel.com>
Message-ID: <199811031447.IAA15402@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Francis Litterio wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> 
> In the last few days I've ceased receiving CP email from algebra.com. 
> Am I still subscribed?  Is mail to me bouncing back to you?  My ISP
> has some aggressive anti-spam measures that sometimes bounce mail from
> lists.

Yes, your problems in receiving cypherpunks mail are due to your ISP.

Please change your ISP, as the current one cares more about the antispam
crusade than about their customers receiving email.

	- Igor.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Eric Murray 
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 01:55:43 +0800
To: ravage@einstein.ssz.com
Subject: Re: VANGUARD:  An Election About Nothing? (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199811031321.HAA04373@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <199811031700.JAA18950@slack.lne.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate writes:
 
 
> It is a standard litany of conventional science to choose the lesser of two
> evils. Perhaps the lesser of two evils in this corrupted, Constitutionaly
> bereft system is *NOT TO PARTICIPATE*. Sine it obviously doesn't matter who
> wins, since the mighty spectre of compromise will dilute any real difference
> into a verbal shell game devoid of meaning. Maby deToquville (sorry for
> spelling - early morning) was right about mediocrity being the result of
> democracy, except in one fine point. It won't be the people as a whole but
> rather those who are too stupid and wedded to outmoded ideals to change. The
> social and political dinosaurs if you will.


Not voting tells the current politicians that you don't care
what they do to you.  They'd be happier if only 5% of the electorate
bothered to vote- that's fewer people to market to.

If you don't like the Republicrats in office, then vote for
what the media denigrates as a 'fringe cantidate'.  If they
lose, which is likely because Americans tend to want to vote
for the winner, then you'll be satisfied because you voted
against the idiot in office.  If they happen to win, then
you'll either get someone wiht some new ideas which (hopefully) you
agree with, or someone so seriously wierd that they paralyze
government for their entire term. 

Here in California we have Green, Libertarian, Peace and Freedom,
Reform and Natural Law candidates for almost all the state positions.
The Natural Law people are so wierd that it's very tempting to
vote for them, here's a sample:

Jane Ann Bialosky, Natural Law candidate for Secretary of State:
"My ideal is to bring fullfillment to the electoral idea, a wise electorate.
Government is the reflection of collective conciousness....
Our government should sustain the influence of harmony, positivity, wholeness,
in which no one can go wrong and everyone will spontaneously be right...
The government of nature governs from the holistic nasis of creation
according to the principle of least action.... Everything must be held up
by natural law.

Another Natural Law candidate for state Controller:
"My vision is for prevention-oriented government, conflict-free politics
and proven solutions to America's economic problems by cutting taxes deeply
abd responsibly while simultaneously balancing the budget through
cost-effective solutions to America's problems, rather than by cutting
essential services."


I was thinking as I read the voter pamphlet that an Absurdist party
would be quite amusing and would point out the silliness of the
current politicians.  But I don't think I could come up with anything as
wacky as the Natural Law people can.


> Maby the polls where drunk dwarves win over 'serious' candidates is actualy
> demonstrating the absurdity of those who insist their issue are serious.

That's my point.  Absurdisim sends a much stronger message
than just not voting.  Voting for serious 'fringe' candidates
(i.e. Libertarians) also sends a message.  Not voting just
says "I don't care what you do to me".



Of course the whole thing _could_ be rigged- 
last night the ABC web site had pages up with _today's_
voting results, with 100% of the "precincts reporting".

 http://www.abcnews.com/sections/us/elections98/results/senate.html
 http://www.abcnews.com/sections/us/elections98/results/governors.html
 http://www.abcnews.com/sections/us/elections98/results/issues.html

They're not up now, but I managed to get a copy of the senate "results"
yesterday (10/2) at 18:40 PST.  It'll be interesting to see how well
they match the "results" from today. 

A copy of the page I saved is at www.lne.com/ericm/senate.html



-- 
Eric Murray          N*Able Technologies                    www.nabletech.com
(email:  ericm  at the sites lne.com or nabletech.com)     PGP keyid:E03F65E5




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Bernardo B. Terrado" 
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 17:25:16 +0800
To: coderpunks@toad.com
Subject: knapsack...
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Could someone tell(give) me where to get a source code
for the knapsack algo (w/ backtracking).

I am going to "parallelize" it.

(suggestions/comments ?)


Thank you.
 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Brown, R Ken" 
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 04:07:18 +0800
To: ericm@lne.com>
Subject: RE: VANGUARD:  An Election About Nothing? (fwd)
Message-ID: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F8561@MSX11002>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Eric Murray wrote:

> Not voting tells the current politicians that you
> don't care what they do to you.  They'd be happier 
> if only % of the electorate bothered to vote that's 
> fewer people to market to.

Yep  look at it as a market. People who don't or can't vote don't count;
jist as people who don't or can't pay don't count in a shop.  If you
vote  or at least if you give a credible threat of possibly voting  they
might notice. Otherwise you are invisible. 

> I was thinking as I read the voter pamphlet that an
> Absurdist party would be quite amusing and would 
> point out the silliness of the current politicians. 
>  But I don't think I could come up with anything as
> wacky as the Natural Law people can.


We used to get "Natural Law" candidates  in UK as well. Not so many last
time round, maybe they finally spent George Harrison's money.   The best
track-record for an Absurdist Party in  this country is the Monster
Raving Looney Party, which used to be mostly Screaming Lord Sutch who
stood for parliament again and again but has recently taken on some sort
of continuing existence (see http://www.surfbaud.co.uk/loony/) and even
has a few town councillors in various places.

Sutch may well have almost invented an electoral version of the
cypherpunk  assasination prototcol - bookies were quoting odds of 15
million to one against him winning a seat once and he pointed out that
if he could find a way to pay voters off anonymously he could bet on
himself and bribe the electorate with his winnings...   I think the odds
fell after that.  Of course the possibility of easy  anonymous bribery
makes traditional electoral law much, much harder to enforce  (see, this
is relevant to Cypherpunks). 

There are some fun looking parties around.  The line up for the UK
General Election on the Glorious First of May was (in order of number of
seats gained):

Labour Party, Conservative Party,   Liberals, Ulster Unionist Party,
Scottish Nationalist Party, Plaid Cymru,  Social Democratic and Labour
Party,  Democratic Unionist,  Sinn Fein,  United Kingdom Unionist,
Madam Speaker Seeking Reelection and  Martin Bell standing as an
independent; all of whom won something. 

And

Alliance Party of Northern Ireland,  British National Party, Rainbow
Dream Ticket Party,  Green Party, 
Liberal Party, Mebyon Kernow,Monster Raving Loony Party,National
Democrats, Northern Ireland Women's Coalition, Natural Law Party ,
ProLife Alliance ,Popular Unionist Party,  Referendum Party  
Socialist Labour Party, Socialist Party,  Scottish Social Alliance,  UK
Independence Party,  Workers Party, 
Workers Revolutionary Party; who didn't win anything but all seem to
have some sort of continuing existence as parties

And 

Anti Sleaze/Corruption,   AntiConservative, Sportsman's Alliance: Anyone
But Mellor, Lord Byro versus the Scallywag Tories,  AntiPoliticians,
Antimajority Democracy, Independent Democracy Means Consulting the
People, People in Slough Shunning Useless Politicians, Common Sense Sick
of Politicians Party, None of the Above, Drugs  Hemp/Cannabis Platforms,
New Millenium, New Way, Hemp Candidate, Hemp Coalition, Legalise
Cannabis Party, Ind AE  Independent Anti Europe, British Home Rule ,
British Isles People First,
Independent Conservative,   Independant Christian, Christian Party,
Christian Nationalist, Christian Democrat, Christian Unity,  Independent
Communist,  Communist Party of Britain, Communist League,  Independent
British Democratic Party, Social Democrat, English Democratic Party,
Rennaisence Democrat, Independent Democrat,  Freedom/Justice/Rights
Platform,   Justice Party, Freedom Party, Justice and Renewal
Independent Party, Pacifist for Peace, Justice, Cooperation,
Environment, Charter for Basic Rights, Fellowship Party for Peace and
Justice, Human Rights ', British Freedom and Individual Rights, Far
Left,   Radical Alternative, Building a Fair Society, Full Employment
Party, Socialist Party of Great Britain, Socialist Equality Party,
Independent Far Right, National Front, Third Way, Independent Green,
Scrapit Stop Avon Ring Road, Newbury Bypass Stop Construction Now,
Independent Liberal Democrat,  Top Choice Liberal Democrat, Independent
Labour,  
and Local Independent; who all seem to have been invented for the
occasion.

Make up your mind as to which, if any, are absurdist. I suspect none of
them bribed the voters much.

Roll on the transferable vote!

Ken Brown & the Disclaimers.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: da5id@simons-rock.edu
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 02:21:38 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: [Fwd: ...prolonged, unintentional and inadvertent...]
Message-ID: <363F3CED.A5A4F1DF@simons-rock.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

 

To: 0xdeadbeef@substance.abuse.blackdown.org
Subject: ...prolonged, unintentional and inadvertent...
From: glen mccready 
Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 11:30:26 -0500
Delivered-To: da5id@simons-rock.edu
Resent-Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 11:32:36 -0500
Resent-From: 0xdeadbeef@substance.abuse.blackdown.org
Resent-Message-ID: <"CF3sc1.0.UA3.D0pFs"@shell>
Resent-Sender: 0xdeadbeef-request@substance.abuse.blackdown.org


Forwarded-by: Nev Dull 
Forwarded-by: "Geoffrey S. Knauth" 
Forwarded-by: Tom Schuneman 

PARIS (Reuters) - Electronic trading may be cheap, but leaning on the
keyboard can be costly. A mystery plunge in the value of French 10-year
bond futures on July 23 was triggered by a bank trader at Salomon Brothers
in London who accidentally and repeatedly hit the "Instant Sell" button,
investigators said Thursday.

A wave of 145 separate sell orders sent the price diving on electronic
screens.

"The disputed trades arose as a result of the prolonged, unintentional
and inadvertent operation of the 'Instant Sell' key," said an
investigation by computer software firm Cap Gemini and security group
Kroll Associates.

Salomon Brothers declined to comment on any losses.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 04:07:51 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: VANGUARD:  An Election About Nothing? (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811031855.MAA05131@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: Eric Murray 
> Subject: Re: VANGUARD:  An Election About Nothing? (fwd)
> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 09:00:34 -0800 (PST)

> Not voting tells the current politicians that you don't care
> what they do to you.  They'd be happier if only 5% of the electorate
> bothered to vote- that's fewer people to market to.

That should set off flags for truly honest politicians (talk about a non
sequeter).

> If you don't like the Republicrats in office, then vote for
> what the media denigrates as a 'fringe cantidate'.  If they
> lose, which is likely because Americans tend to want to vote
> for the winner, then you'll be satisfied because you voted
> against the idiot in office.  If they happen to win, then
> you'll either get someone wiht some new ideas which (hopefully) you
> agree with, or someone so seriously wierd that they paralyze
> government for their entire term. 

This of course assumes that there is some faith in the system.

> The Natural Law people are so wierd that it's very tempting to

Weird? You're talking to somebody who lives in Austin, Tx. The capital of
weird amond weird....;)

But the point isn't to vote for just anybody. I keep having this echo of
Federalist #5 (I think that's the one about political parties) going through
my head. The problem with our system is that we need a more representative
form of government. It shouldn't be simply a football game (which leads to a
related but deep issue about American psychology itself) but a fair and
honest representation of the peoples desire. The only things I can find that
would make such '3rd party' strategies work is if the representation was
done by percentage as in Englands parliament.

> That's my point.  Absurdisim sends a much stronger message
> than just not voting.  Voting for serious 'fringe' candidates
> (i.e. Libertarians) also sends a message.  Not voting just
> says "I don't care what you do to me".

I'll think about this one. Several points come to mind and I'm not sure
how to express them at this point. The point I can address is that it isn't
that people voted for a drunk dwarve. It was the issue was so trivial or
irrelevant that it didn't matter who goes in there, it simply doesn't
matter. In that case the only answer is to opt out and spend ones time
dealing with the issues and problems that do matter.

The question is deeper than simply participation, it's addresses the entire
point of the system that needs our participation in the first place.

> last night the ABC web site had pages up with _today's_
> voting results, with 100% of the "precincts reporting".

I'd guess they were testing.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 04:32:08 +0800
To: "Brown, R Ken" 
Subject: RE: airline id
In-Reply-To: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F853F@MSX11002>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 6:46 AM -0500 10/29/98, Brown, R Ken wrote:
>problem. On trains, unlike planes, you keep your luggage with you.
>
>Also people *like* trains. They are cute. Even in America you have
>hordes of trainspotters and steam enthusiasts and model-builders and all
>the rest. It always amazes me that bookshops have more shelves of
>hobbyist books about trains than about cars, but only about 15% of the
>population regularly travel by train and about 60% by car. (In England -
>I guess in the USA that's more like 5% and 85% - and before you say that

	That actually may be the reason. I have traveled a good deal on
both trains, by Auto, and by bicycle, and well, Trains suck. Cars suck
slightly less (execpt in a few cases).

	It is easiest to get romantic about something you don't have to
fight with on a regular basis.

Ken Brown
>
>(who prefers bicycles to trains but had to use the train to get to work
>today because  of a broken spoke he is incapable of fixing. He only does
>software)

	I have 3 bikes. Hell, a spare bike is cheaper than a spare tire.
--
"To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a
jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a
gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather naďve, and certainly
unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust"
http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html

Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro@playboy.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 04:52:57 +0800
To: Adam Back 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 4:20 PM -0500 10/29/98, Adam Back wrote:
>Some people have been talking about using passwords as private keys.
>(By using the passphrase as seed material for regenerating the private
>and public key).
>
>I don't think this is a good idea.
>
>You can't forget passphrases.  You can destroy private key files.
>

	Yes, you can. I had an art director forget his 4 days running,
AFTER LUNCH. He remembered it in the morning, but after lunch he couldn't.

	It wasn't a "passphrase" either, it was a _very_ weak password.
--
"To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a
jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a
gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather naďve, and certainly
unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust"
http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html

Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro@playboy.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 07:58:22 +0800
To: Eric Murray 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981103151311.00984100@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 09:00 AM 11/3/98 -0800, Eric Murray wrote:
>The Natural Law people are so wierd that it's very tempting to vote for them,

One reason their rhetoric looks so weird is because it's avoiding
coming straight out and saying "Our plan for fixing society is to have 
the government fund teaching of Transcendental Meditation(r) to everybody,
and once everybody is doing TM, they'll all be healthier, better behaved,
and will do things in accordance with The Laws Of Nature As Taught By
the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, so the problems of the world will all fix themselves."
Meanwhile, of course, they describe their national health plans as using
"Proven Scientific Principles" (TM having been proven to fix everything)
and their education plans using similar obfuscatory rhetoric.
(On the other hand, I haven't heard them saying that the TM-Siddhi program
will let them replace the Air Force with levitation yet;
they tend to take the view that calmness and niceness will scientifically
reduce the need to shoot people, which I can't fault them for too much...)

It's basically a wimpier version of traditional Western moral reformers 
pushing the view that if government gets rid of Sin, society will work better,
but getting rid of ignorance is usually a "kinder, gentler" process,
not that you want to tell the ignorant what you're doing,
because they may think that offering fruit and flowers to a guru's picture
and chanting the name of a fire-god while breathing quietly
is not only a strange way to fix ignorance but is an inappropriate thing 
for governments to spend their money on, especially in the name of Science.

Most of the Natural Law Party candidates I've talked to, except when
they're on direct meditation-revenue-enhancement topics, tend to be
reasonable folks, somewhere in the liberal-to-libertarian range,
thinking the government should mostly let people do what they want,
which will naturally lead to calmness and niceness as they follow 
natural law, and a lot of the TM folks, especially around
Maharishi University in Iowa, have gone into business for themselves,
so they prefer lower government interference and red tape.

On the other hand, like any small party trying to get enough candidates
to run full slates for office, some of their folks really are flakes :-)
I like to believe that Libertarians do better on that score,
but we've got our share as well, and the only real way out of it
is to grow large enough that the supply of people willing to run
includes enough competent people.

On the other hand, it's still tempting to see about putting Frank Zappa
on the ballot.  He is a bit metabolically challenged these days,
but it wouldn't bother him much, and he's still be a better candidate
than most live Democrats or Republicans.
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: service@angelfire.com
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 07:58:22 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Seeking Commission Based Sales Representatives and Distributors
Message-ID: <199811032324.PAA12558@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Hi 

We are seeking commission-based sales representatives and distributors
in your geographic market to spearhead the national roll-out for our 
Consumer Smart Product line. 

Whether you are a student or a senior citizen,
everyone is qualified to earn extra income within our company. 

	Could you use extra income?
       	Are you tired of get rich schemes?

If you can answer YES to these questions, then this is the perfect 
opportunity for you.

	This is not a pyramid or get rich quick scheme.
       	This is a serious, legitmate business opportunity.

We offer Consumer Smart Products at prices everyone can afford!  
Our products are useful for everyone and they make perfect gifts! 

All our products emphasize "Quality, Function and Value" 

For additional information, please reply to this email with more info 
in your subject heading. Only serious applicants need apply.

Thank You







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jyri Poldre 
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 01:07:56 +0800
To: Cypherpunks 
Subject: hardware sharing question
In-Reply-To: <199811020422.XAA11460@cti06.citenet.net>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Dear C'punks,

There are many different hardware accelerator devices available for
speeding up the  modmul operation - The nFast and FastMap to name  a few.
I am about to build a new one. This unit should be: 

1. Expandable
    A. No harm if exponent is larger than N bits - just slower
    B. As much parralel calculations as possible - add ALU and 
       get faster results 
2. Low cost- keep only the heavy iron in the card - all other is ok 
   to do using host CPU.

This should also enable to build the device for several applications -
After all I want only to replace a call to some mathemathical subroutine.


To realize it the Residue Number System, with some additional memory seems
like a good choiche. The system will eventually consist of a card with
slots for addtional ALU and RAM modules. You can do away with only one ALU
- tha base kit, but it will consume bus bandwidth. Add memory and you are
free from that limitation. Slow? Add ALU units. 

But interestingly my main problem is not about cryptography :) I would
like to know, if there are possible other places, where integer
arithmetics could be used. Maybe A world would be a better place with fast
matrix multiplication?

So people. I would very much appreciate, if you could tell me about the
ways we could use this integer calculator for other applications as well.

I will be using RNS, what gives us a lot of multiplications/additions in
parralel. 

Thank you,

Jyri Poldre,
Tallinn Technical University.

 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 07:24:32 +0800
To: petro@playboy.com
Subject: Re: don't use passwords as private keys (was Re: Using a passwordas a private key.)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199811032218.WAA22735@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Petro  writes:
> >You can't forget passphrases.  You can destroy private key files.
> 
> 	Yes, you can. I had an art director forget his 4 days running,
> AFTER LUNCH. He remembered it in the morning, but after lunch he couldn't.

With the kind of "memory aid" we were talking about here (legal
threat, 1 years imprisonment for contempt to aid memory, perhaps
torture) he might just have remembered it.  If he didn't he'd likely
get a year or so to try remember it in prison on contempt charges for
not handing it over.

Deleting keys on the other hand, contempt would be a waste of time,
you're never going to remember what you don't know, and they ought to
convincable of this if you can show the software documentation
describing forward secret key material deletion.

> 	It wasn't a "passphrase" either, it was a _very_ weak password.

Also note that it is not necessary to remember the password precisely,
just narrow the search space down to provide a viable dictionary
attack of 56 bits or whatever.

The art directors password sounds like it was already below that.

Adam
-- 
print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<>
)]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 06:45:38 +0800
To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
Subject: JIM MARTIN---NC Supreme Court (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811032150.WAA15132@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



This spam was received earlier today. One has to wonder just how stupid
this guy is.

Hint: I live at least a thousand miles from North Carolina. This guy is
running for a position as judge, but thinks that it is more important to
tell people about how many kids he has as opposed to his actual
qualifications for the office.

He might also want to learn how to use English, that people in the other 49
states cannot vote for or against him, and what the term "theft of service"
means before he attempts to occupy such an office.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Ineedyourhelp@yourvote.com
Subject: JIM MARTIN---NC Supreme Court
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 09:42:32


                           JIM MARTIN
                         NC Supreme Court

My Friend:

I needy Your Help when you vote on Tuesday.  Your vote for me
to represent you on the NC Supreme Court would really be
appreciated by me.

I'm not a politican.  I have a Family, 3 kids in college and
I can and will make a difference if you give me the chance
to work for you..

When elected, I promise you that my Door will always be open
TO YOU.

I Thank You,

Jim Martin




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous Lorrie Faith Cranor 
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 06:27:05 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Programmer Needed for Privacy Tool Implementation ProjectProgrammer Needed for Privacy Tool Implementation Project
Message-ID: <199811042148.WAA04222@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



As the World Wide Web Consortium's Platform for Privacy Preferences
Project (P3P) specification is nearing completion, it's time to
start working on P3P implementations.

I have an immediate opening for a java programming contractor to
implement a P3P user agent as a client-side proxy. For details on
P3P see http://www.w3.org/p3p/  This is an excellent opportunity
for a programmer who wants to help make it easier for people to
maintain their privacy online.

An outstanding candidate for this position would have:
- several years of programming experience, including project design 
  experience
- experience with browser plugg-ins, Web proxy servers, or Web clients
  (or at least some familiarity with the HTTP protocol)
- Windows GUI development experience
- user interface design experience
- familiarity with XML

I'm looking for someone who can start ASAP, preferably in the next
month.  This project is expected to last 3 to 6 months, most likely
6 months.  We would prefer someone who can work on site at the AT&T
Labs-Research Shannon Laboratory in Florham Park, NJ, but will
consider outstanding applicants who would prefer to work remotely.
Florham Park is in a nice suburban area less than an hour from
midtown Manhattan.

Please email lorrie@research.att.com for more information or to
apply.

--
Lorrie Faith Cranor                    lorrie@research.att.com
AT&T Labs-Research                                973-360-8607
180 Park Ave. Room A241                       FAX 973-360-8970
Florham Park, NJ 07932    http://www.research.att.com/~lorrie/




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 09:52:49 +0800
To: "Robert A. Costner" 
Subject: Re: MIB Subpoenas
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19981028234903.034b1ad0@rboc.net>
Message-ID: <199811040107.CAA03703@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> Actually I was thinking of trying to get ahold of Jim Bell and get
> permission to publish Assassination Politics in Hardback along with other
> info.

btw: Winn Schwartau (infowar.com) has published the AP essay in a book.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Secret Squirrel 
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 12:12:04 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: FUD vs LINUX
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



MICROSOFT EXECS WORRY ABOUT FREE SOFTWARE MOVEMENT


An internal Microsoft memo written by one of that company's software
engineers indicates that Microsoft is concerned with developing strategies
for competing against free programs that have been gaining popularity with
software developers, such as the operating system Linux.  The memorandum
warns that the usual Microsoft marketing strategy known as FUD (an acronym
for fear, uncertainty, and doubt) won't work against developers of free
software, who are part of the O.S.S. (open-source software) movement that
makes source code readily available to anyone for improvement and testing.
The memo (http://www.opensource.org/halloween.html) says:  "The ability of
the O.S.S. process to collect and harness the collective I.Q. of thousands
of individuals across the Internet is simply amazing.  More importantly,
O.S.S. evangelization scales with the size of the Internet much faster than
our own evangelization efforts appear to scale."  


(New York Times 3 Nov 98)










From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: wabe 
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 17:47:18 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: JIM MARTIN---NC Supreme Court (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199811032150.WAA15132@replay.com>
Message-ID: <364045D4.E486986A@home.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



He's probably better qualified than the people who get elected.
-wabe




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 23:05:25 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Hayek and Foucault
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Date:         Wed, 4 Nov 1998 04:27:52 EST
Reply-To: Hayek Related Research 
Sender: Hayek Related Research 
From: Stephen Carson 
Subject:      Re: Hayek and Foucault
To: HAYEK-L@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU

     Clearly, Hayek's analysis of power & the state has been superseded
by a far more nuanced view.  But, just for old time's sake, I would like
to try arguing that Hayek's (and, in fact, the Old Whig/classical
liberal) perspective may still have something to offer us that these new
views, as explicated by Williams & Davis, don't seem to have.
     Please chalk up unrelated attempts to defend Hayek to my current
fascination with "pietas", now that I've finally figured out what my
Latin teacher meant by that.

Julietwill@AOL.COM (Juliet Williams) wrote:
>given everything Hayek knew about the perils facing the planning state, he
>nonetheless feared it.  Hayek's own arguments about the obstacles to
>planning and centralizing power should have suggested to him that the real
>danger in the future lies not with a centralized state (which is doomed to
>fail) but rather with a government that recognizes the need to
>decentralize its power in order to maintain hegemony.  Then Hayek might
>have understood that a state which dissipates and, hence, masks its power
>can threaten liberty equally if not more so than a state which tries to
>maximize its direct control.  Hayek was perfectly positioned to
>understand, as Foucault did, that total state poses much less of a threat
>in these times than does the post-modern one in which state power is so
>thoroughly diffused as to be unrecognizable.

     Perhaps I'm thinking about the wrong time horizon, but it seems to
me that the 170 million or so that were marched out to the killing fields
in this century might have had some not entirely irrelevant fears of the
"planning state".  Certainly, despite my understanding of the inherent
instability of the Total State, I thank God regularly that the US hasn't
yet gone through that awkward transition period between the birth of the
Total State & its demise.
     Foucault is probably correct that we are beyond the centralized
state.  But I can't help recalling to mind my re-reading the other night
of the first chapter of R. J. Rummel's _Death By Government_ in which he
details the numerous slaughters (most by centralized states) that have
occurred throughout history prior to the 20th century.  I hope very much
my pessimism about human nature will be disproven, but I think I'll keep
my eyes open just in case.

>Foucault thus offers us something Hayek does not, namely, an imperative to
>resist power.  Hayek is primarily concerned not with promoting resistance,
>but rather with preventing the need for it in the first place.  It is true
>that Hayek concedes a place for participation by his admission that
>democracy is one of the most important safeguards of freedom (LLL3, 5).
>  But Hayek hardly offers a resounding endorsement of participatory
>politics.  In his words, democracy is one of those paramount though
>negative values, comparable to sanitary precautions against the plague.

     Given all this I'm not quite sure what to make of Hayek's personal
efforts, like the Mont Pelerin Society, or of the rumours that Hayek's
writings have had & continue to have an influence on those suffering
under totalitarianism & looking for a sign of hope.
     To be sure, this may be very distant from the sort of participatory
politics that Foucault understands to be effective, but it seems unfair
to say that Hayek had no strategy of resistance at all.
     My own reading of Hayek is of a man who was (since roughly 1922)
engaged in a lifelong resistance against state power.  Admittedly, his
strategy may seem extremely subtle & long-term, but I might even go so
far as to claim that his strategy has already had some effectiveness in
its own small way... And that his intention was that its greatest impact
wouldn't hit until well after his death.


daviserik@HOTMAIL.COM (Erik Davis) wrote:
>Liberals in general tend to limit discussion of "power" to discussion of
>the state, and perhaps Hayek often did the same.

     One might even say that, in the context of a classical liberal
political discussion, the term "power" is short for "state power", (or,
perhaps, coercive power).

>This will seem paradoxical to a liberal--and even more so to a
>conservative (esp. those of Hobbesian persuasion)--because if the rule
>of law must ultimately be "enforced" endogenously then this means
>that--if it were ever to be completely upheld--one could say (1) that
>the state will cease to exist [because there would not be a need for
>exogenous enforcement of rules] or (2) that the "state" will be ALL
>PERVASIVE [because every agent is committed to the rules].  (Certainly,
>just what is "endogenous" and what is "exogenous" should itself be
>brought into question--that would be Foucault's point, no?).  The
>liberal will say (1), the postmodernist will say (2).

     It's probably just six of one, half dozen of another, as you imply.
Though it occurs to me that Rummel's particular concern about the state,
(that it will slaughter its citizens and whoever else comes under its
power), would be allayed in the situation described.  So in this
particular sense, (1) might be the most useful claim to be made.
     It further occurs to me that if Rummel is right, that a society in
which the rule of law is diffused & widely practiced will not kill its
citizens, then would could conjecture that such a society might even
afford more liberties than just to retain one's life.

>If we read Hayek with (2) in mind, Hayek does at times seem to
>politicize EVERYTHING.  For example, in his "Why I am Not a
>Conservative", the Party of Life is not tied to a state.
>
>I wanted to emphasize this in my earlier post (in reply to Gus DiZerega
>and Stephen Carson) by pointing out the analogies between common law
>(tied to state action) and custom (not necessarily tied to the state).
>Common law is a system of precedents which determines where and when
>force can be legitimately applied; customs ("rituals" [INSTITUTIONS!
>{see below}]) function in a completely analogous way.  The POLITICAL
>character of these customs (as, in one form, a "perverse system of
>rituals")--and of challenges to them--is precisely the argument of
>Vaclav Havel's THE POWER OF THE POWERLESS.

     I think this is an excellent point.  Perhaps it's just taste, but
I'm a bit bothered by speaking of the political character of customs.
Certainly customs, (and non-state institutions, like the family &
friendship), have political implications, but to talk about their
political character seems to me to let politics eat too much up.  And I
think we've had quite enough of that.

Stephen W. Carson   

"Premature optimization is the root of all evil" -Donald Knuth

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "X" 
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 00:25:00 +0800
To: "cypherpunks@toad.com>
Subject: Sensar knows!
Message-ID: <000301be0808$21a6e960$8d2580d0@ibm>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary..3998.1071713814.multipart/mixed"

--Boundary..3998.1071713814.multipart/mixed
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


HERE'S LOOKING AT YOU, SENSAR
By Peter D. Henig 
Red Herring Online
November 3, 1998
You walk out the door and down the street to find the closest ATM machine,
but reaching into your wallet -- "oops" -- you forgot your cash card.
Don't you hate that?
Well, if Sensar, a biometrics manufacturer of iris identification products
has anything to say about it, you'll soon be tossing that ATM card in the
can.
Sensar has announced the world's largest ever combined equity investment in
the field of personal electronic identification -- which is actually a
bigger deal than you might think.
Moving a step closer, as the company puts it, "toward making PINs and
passwords obsolete," Citibank, NCR, J.P. Morgan, Lehman Brothers, Merrill
Lynch's wholly-owned subsidiary, KECALP Inc., and others have invested an
aggregate of $28 million in Sensar as the company attempts to further roll
out its iris identification pilot programs around the world in the hopes of
owning this futuristic segment of the biometrics market targeted at the
financial services and banking industries.
Who cares?
Who cares about equity stakes in biometrics companies?
Good question, and the same one we asked when the company came a-pitching us
their story.
It turns out, however, that biometrics is -- as Sensar likes to remind us --
an emerging technology that could soon turn into a hot, if not huge, market
around the globe.
With the initial results of their European pilot program (set up in a small
city outside London), it's "going very, very well, and I do mean very well."
According to Per-Olof Loof, Senior Vice President of NCR's Financial
Solutions Group, Sensar is pumped to push forward with its iris recognition
products, shooting for commercial roll out in 1999, and a real ramp up of
shipping product by 2000 and 2001.
The Sensar Secure Iris Identification System is currently being used in NCR
ATMs and at teller stations at Nationwide Building Society, the United
Kingdom's largest savings and loan. Sensar's Iris Identification product was
also used by professional athletes for access control and security at the
1998 Winter Olympics in Nagano, Japan. Citibank, an equity investor, has
also launched an in-house pilot program using its employees to test iris
scan technology.
And just how big is this market?
While company officials wouldn't be pinned down on specific forecasts, Mr.
Olof noted that there are 20 billion customer transactions annually on NCR
ATM machines alone, and that NCR has 37 percent market share. That's not a
bad partner for a private company like Sensar to have.
Moreover, Tom Drury, president and CEO of Sensar noted that there are
currently 900,000 ATMs worldwide and 160,000 new machines shipping each
year.
Smile!
The unique aspect of Sensar's products is that you may not even be aware
you're being watched.
Sensar's iris identification products use standard video cameras and
real-time image processing to acquire a picture of a person's iris (the
colored portion of the eye), digitally encode it, and compare it with one on
file -- all in the space of a few seconds. It allows for highly accurate
identification (comparing features across a whole database) and verification
(comparing features with a single template) in a user friendly environment;
second in accuracy only to retina identification using sans-laser beams.
In layman's terms, this might mean opening up an account at your local bank
by simply sitting down, having them take a snapshot of your eyeballs, and
then hitting the ATMs or tellers for some cash.
According to the company, iris recognition uses digitally encoded images of
the iris to provide a highly accurate, easy-to-use and virtually fraud-proof
means to verify a customer's identity. With 266 identification
characteristics, the iris is the human body's most unique physical
structure. And unlike other measurable human features in the face, hand,
voice or fingerprint, the patterns in the iris do not change over time;
receeding hairlines be damned.
They're not alone
"This landmark agreement puts iris identification light years ahead of any
other personal electronic identification technology," said Mr. Drury.
"Clearly, this agreement validates Sensar's product as the most accurate,
customer-friendly, cost effective personal electronic identification product
ever developed."
That's not bad cheerleading, but Sensar is clearly not the only biometric
firm in the identification market's field of vision.
According to the Gartner Group (IT
), Miros and
Visionics were the first companies to enter the facial recognition market,
although facial recognition tends to be a less accurate means of
identification. These two companies offer far cheaper products than Sensar,
and are targeting applications to such markets as PC and network access and
online transactions. Sensar, however, will also be designing for and
marketing to the online environment, as it envisions iris technology hitting
the desktop environment.
While the Gartner Group forecasts that the more widely accepted fingerprint
recognition techniques will be the remote access standard of choice through
2001, it also predicts that "aggressive financial organizations will begin
full-scale rollouts of iris recognition for tellers and ATMs by 2000."
Hence, the $28 million equity stake in Sensar by this highbrow club of
financial institutions.
By 2002, Gartner analysts predict iris recognition will be the biometric of
choice, an area where IrisScan Inc. holds an exclusive patent. (Sensar uses
the iris recognition process developed and licensed from IriScan, Inc., and
has the exclusive use of that technology for all financial services
transactions.)
And as far as exit strategy goes, everybody, including Sensar, still has
dreams of Silicon Valley dollars dancing in their heads.
"We have a classic Silicon Valley entrepreneurial team," said Mr. Drury, who
is located in New Jersey, "and we consider an IPO as a definite exit
strategy."
We'll be watching.



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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 01:48:38 +0800
To: Robert Hettinga 
Subject: Re: ?Lions?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <36408C43.106C@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> Oh. That's easy. Check out the essay section of 

"Notice a few things about the mechanics of the model. First, everyone
who puts money onto the net, or takes it off, is identified to the
complete satisfaction of government
     regulators everywhere. Digital bearer cash is treated just like
physical cash in the eyes of regulators, and is subject to the same
regulations. There is no functional
     difference between a digital cash underwriter and an ATM machine."


> Render unto FinCEN. No problem. Flatland can't reach the sky no matter how
> hard they try. (hey. I'm rapping... pbbbt. tht. pbbbt. pbbbt. tht... :-))
> 

It is the financial foundation for a cyber world where regulators will
probably have a great deal of trouble operating. They may have no choice
but to settle for taking their cut at the borders.

I still see many of the same old problems when attempting to trade hard
goods, at least in large quantities. The problem of having to explain
how you came by a 6000 sqare foot home on 100 acres of mountainside in
Lake Pacid is not solved. It's not a total solution but it looks good.

It could be a great way to save for retirement - nobody can tell how
much E$ you have accumulated, where it came from or where you keep it.
Just draw it out as you need it, pay your taxes at the gate and use the
5th when necessary.

Regards,
Mike




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: atlantis@earthlink.net
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 02:46:10 +0800
To: 
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199811041811.NAA13498@mail.video-collage.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



11/04/98


Y2K  Solution!
8  Pine  Circle  Dr., Silicon  Valley, Calif. USA


OTC  Company  "TCFG"  21 st. Century  Frontier  Group  has
through  several  members  of  their  administrative  research
department  leaked  vital  information  about  their  companies  
efforts.

Everyone  was  tight  lipped  and  interviews  were  refused,
and  through  un-named  sources  we  have  learned  that  the  
technology  and  software  solution  are  in  the  process  of  
being  patented!

In over  1640  trials, using  various  data  systems  the  use  
of  the  new  technology  and  software  solved  the  Y2K
problem  100%  of  the  time. 

This  small  publicly  traded  company  "TCFG"  which  is  just
3  years  old  is  through  various  sources  now  negotiating
with  the  "Big  Boys"!

"TCFG"  the  letters  to  look  for!

























 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 23:12:58 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Praetoriani Novi
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Delivered-To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
X-Sender: believer@telepath.com
Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 06:17:44 -0600
To: believer@telepath.com
From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: New Powers for Secret Service
Mime-Version: 1.0
Sender: owner-ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
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Source:  Salt Lake City Tribune
http://www.sltrib.com/11031998/utah/utah.htm

IT'S CLASSIFIED: The Secret Service Will
Have a Hand In 2002 Security

BY GREG BURTON
THE SALT LAKE TRIBUNE

A classified executive order signed by President Clinton during the summer
has altered the way the Secret Service prepares for security at national
events,
a change already affecting the blueprint for the 2002 Winter Olympics.

Presidential protection, often a hectic, hodgepodge operation, has been the
jurisdiction of the Secret Service since John Wilkes Booth shot President
Lincoln. Now, the presidential directive orders the Secret Service to take an
active role in planning security for major national events, whether or not
presidents, vice presidents, ex-presidents, their spouses or other dignitaries
attend.

Called Presidential Decision Directive 62 (PDD 62), the order also
reportedly alters a range of national security considerations, although the
directive's internal hardware is top secret. PDDs, like executive orders,
do not
require the approval of Congress but come through the National Security
Council.

For Salt Lake City, PDD 62 means Secret Service agents already are
planning for the orchestration of executive ogling at the Winter Olympics
without knowing who the president of the United States will be or if that
person will attend.

At the 1996 Summer Games, when the same shadowy squad led
then-first-term Clinton through the magnolia trees in Atlanta, security
experts
with the Secret Service did not begin preparing for the executive visit
until after
Olympic organizers and the FBI had completed their security plan.

``The public has this perception of the Secret Service as a strange
institution
that rides in and rides out with black glasses on,'' says Dennis Crandall,
resident agent in charge of the Secret Service for Utah and Idaho. ``This is
kind of a new era for us.''

PDD 62 now enters a vault of classified security directives.

Among other PDDs is No. 29, issued in 1994, that established the Security
Policy Board, a secretive agency with authority over information systems'
security and safeguarding classified information. The National Security
Council
has refused to release details of PDD 29.

PDD 62 likely will remain equally veiled.

``PDD 62 is not classified, but the contents are,'' says David M. Tubbs, the
recently appointed special agent in charge for the FBI's Utah, Idaho and
Montana command.

Says Crandall: ``Portions of it are still sensitive.''

According to several national security experts, the major event clause in
PDD 62 is an outgrowth of a perceived lack of security planning for the
president's visit to the Atlanta Games.

Because of PDD 62, the Secret Service has been involved nearly from the
onset of security planning for the 2002 Winter Games.

``We are designated to take a more aggressive upfront role in major
events,'' says Crandall. Currently, the FBI and the Secret Service are
hammering out a memorandum of understanding that clarifies the division of
labor between the two federal security teams in accordance with PDD 62.

The Secret Service's role -- although a topic that has reportedly led to turf
wars in Washington, D.C. -- has been welcomed by most Salt Lake City
organizers. Tubbs does not see their involvement as a threat to the FBI, the
lead federal security agency for the 2002 Olympics.

``I have not had a turf war with anyone. Period,'' says Tubbs, who was one
of several agents with direct security oversight during Atlanta. ``We are all
involved in the planning stages here, so what has happened in the past is
unimportant. What is important is what happens in 2002.''
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------


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--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 18:35:30 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: problems with the concept
Message-ID: <199811040950.KAA15927@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> http://www.jya.com/hr4655-wjc.htm
> TEXT: CLINTON ON SIGNING THE "IRAQ LIBERATION ACT OF 1998" OCT. 31 

Mr. Clinton would seem to have a problem with the concept
of "covert" as it applies to personal and international actions.

The MIB who visited the radio astronomer who thought he discovered
extraterrestrial "intelligence", when it was just a classified intelligence
satellite, have a "subtlety" problem.

[see http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hall/7193/cancelled.html
(also stored on www.jya.com/crypto.htm)]


--Haste Orwellians Deride my Thugs













  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 01:52:57 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: TEMPEST laptops
In-Reply-To: <19981101152627.C29091@die.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 4:02 PM -0500 11/1/98, Tim May wrote:
>
>All good points, but there's a big difference between trying to meet FCC
>emissions requirements for a commercial product that has to meet cost,
>weight, and cosmetic requirements (e.g., a plastic case!), and the scenario
>of making a TEMPEST-like box for a laptop. Ferrite beads and copper tape
>are a lot different from a sealed box made of 10-gauge copper sheet.

	Question:

	What if, instead of trying to entirely prevent leakage, one did a
combination of "redirecting" and "masking" emissions.

	Keep in mind I am asking from a point of total ignorance.

	To break the question down further, a tempest attack is limited by
2 things, distance from the machine (IIRC, the "level" or "strength" of RF
emissions drops by the square of the distance correct?) and (possibly) the
presence of other sources of RF in about the same bands.

	Assuming that the signal level drops by the square of the distance,
then one is far more likely to get tempested from a van outside than an
airplane overhead correct?  In that case, simply design one of Mr. May's
brazed copper boxes so that it is open something similar to:

                 ______________
		|_____         |
                     /         |
                               |
          _                    |
         | |________/          |
         |_____________________|

Where the laptop (or even a full sized tube monitor & computer) is placed
inside.


The other question is how hard, given a _specific_ machine would it be to
create a "RF" jammer? Sort of an active defense versus the passive defense
of a Tempest sheild. build a device that measures the RF coming off a
machine, and rebroadcasts the opposite (i.e. the negation) of the signal?
This should, or could "flatten" the signal making it useless.

Then again, I could be totally wrong.
--
"To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a
jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a
gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather naďve, and certainly
unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust"
http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html

Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro@playboy.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 01:07:34 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: NYC Smartcards Die
Message-ID: <199811041618.LAA31005@camel7.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Chase, Visa and Mastercard have closed down their
smartcard trial on the Upper West Side of Manhattan, 
the NYT reports today.

It also says Mondex has closed its Swindon trial.

The problem in NY is that the system was too cumbersome
to use, needing special readers that were not always up to
snuff, compared to the familiar and reliable system for credit 
cards. Bribing users with start up cash didn't work either.
No one ever reloaded their cards. Not all merchants took them,
especially those handling only cash transactions.

Also, the cards could not be used outside the trial area, and
the paper says, "everybody leaves the Upper West Side,"
without saying where they go to kill time for the day like
out of work Koreans who dare not admit the sublimity
of being jobless at long last -- money cannot buy the joy.

Spokespersons say that they misjudged the customer's desire
for cash-like freedom and anonymity (my words). That the best 
prospect for smartcard future lies in captive users such as college 
campuses and the military where they expect an all-purpose card 
will catch on by providing handy ID and money, as well as (unsaid) 
perfect monitoring and data-gathering.

I'll keep my $12-balance card (never found a place to accept it) on 
the chance that it will be a valuable collector's item for the Edsel 
Electronic Opium Museum.

And we never leave the Upper West Side, well, once, to go to
the Harvard Club for a swell DCSNY. Great group, grim dump.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: entropi 
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 01:22:59 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: is it real?
In-Reply-To: <36413D1D.3C6@pacific.net.sg>
Message-ID: <19981104113503.B4836@mail.roava.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



While some of the "information" cited in this post is technically possible, as a
sys admin at a small start-up ISP, I can guarantee you that at least one ISP in the US is not kissing MS's ass in such a fashion.

One would need to present a warrant in order to obtain our customer information.
I sure as hell don't have the time or desire to help Gates track down people whohave managed to find their way around paying for his bloated OS.

It seems to me that the ISP would have to be in cahoots with Gates in order to make piracy charges stick.  Hence, one more arguement for using small, privacy oriented ISPs.  The lesson here is, never trust the telco ;)

On Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 09:52:29PM -0800, zËRö wrote:
> >>for your info, please.
> >>
> >>>>Just in case.......
> >>>>......... basically.... don't install Windows 98 ..... since they 
> >have
> >>>>this "added" function.....  =)
> >>>>
> >>>> Microsoft slapped two more lawsuit against one teenager and one
> >>>>retired worker for using pirated Windows 98 software.
> >>>>
> >>>>For your information on how Microsoft actually trace PIRATED /
> >>>>COPIED / UNLICENSED Windows 98:
> >>>>
> >>>>Whenever you logon into the internet, during the verifying
> >>>>password duration. Your ISP (Internet Service Provider
> >>>>eg:SingNET,PacNET,CyberNET,SwiftNET) will download a
> >>>>SUB-REGISTRY ENCRYPTED HEXADECIMAL (containing all your
> >>>>PROGRAMS serial numbers installed into Win98!!) file from
> >>>>your Windows 98 registry. Then they send this SUB-REGISTRY to
> >>>>Microsoft for verification. And ONLY Microsoft knows how
> >>>>to decode this encypted hexadecimal file.
> >>>>
> >>>>If Microsoft verified that the serial numbers are authentic,
> >>>>then they WILL REGISTER THOSE NUMBERS FOR YOU
> >>>>A-U-T-O-M-A-T-C-A-L-L-Y !!!
> >>>>
> >>>>And if Microsoft denied those serial numbers, then they will send
> >>>>an E-Mail to the ISP you dialled into and your ISP will start
> >>>>tracing everyone who logons to their systems. That's why during
> >>>>sometime for no reason your internet started slowing down.
> >>>>And if your ISP verified that the SUB-REGISTRY ENCYPTED HEXADECIMAL
> >>>>file is yours, they will send your information over to Microsoft
> >>>>Singapore. And there they will decide whether to take actions or not.
> >>>>
> >>>>There is already 54 cases in Singapore regarding uses of PIRATE
> >>>>/ COPIED / UNLICENSED Windows 98.
> >>>>
> >>>>I do not wish to see any of my friends get into this million dollar
> >>>>tangle from Bill Gates, not that I hate this guy, but it really
> >>>>sucks when they made such anti-piracy move into the software itself
> >>>>- thus forcing everyone to buy Microsoft original's Windows 98, if
> >>>>not they'll slap you with a lawsuit.
> >>>>
> >>>>Forward this mail to as many people you know, and who knows
> >>>>you may just save one of your friends from getting sued by Microsoft.
> >>>>
> >>>>




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 04:14:14 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: MS "halloween" doc, vs. linux
Message-ID: <199811041937.LAA08348@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



some people objected to my last post ranting about MS
tactics relative to the browser market. there has been
a remarkable development that shows how MS deliberately
attempts to "sabotage" markets through FUD etc.... an
internal policy memo that discusses their tactics leaked
to the public..

good article on Slate about how MS is attempting to
sabotage the growth of new free linux software through a systematic
strategy of "decommoditizing" or "embrace and extend" where
some people call this "copy and corrupt":

http://www.salonmagazine.com/21st/

if MS's strategies in the world were as simple as "make
good products so people will buy them", who could complain?
but they constantly see software development as trench
warfare and a bloody, no-hold-barred melee. I'm positive
they will be chastised after this antitrust trial finishes..
we'll see..




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 02:34:02 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Computers as instruments of liberation
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 2:22 AM -0500 11/2/98, Tim May wrote:
>Fatuous nonsense. After all, those folks down the road may be taxing them,
>and may need killing. Or those folks may use computer networks to connect
>to others for the purposes of liberation.
>
>I see computer networks as promoting secessionism, freedom fighting, and
>resistance in general.
>
>The New World Order, the One Worlders, see this as "terrorism."
>
>Which is why strong encryption is needed. Which is why "they" oppose strong
>encryption.
>
>John Gage has a typically Fabian socialist view that somehow
>computerization will lead to an orderly, peaceful world.
>
>Me, I view networks as  the key to retribution and justice.

	Then again, it could be that after all the "secessionism and
freedom fighting" are done with, the resulting "disorder" (as in lack of
rulers) will be so ubiquitous that *WARS* will no longer happen, as there
is no one to lead the armies. and no one paying taxes to support those
armies.

	That then would be peasce, no?
--
"To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a
jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a
gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather naďve, and certainly
unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust"
http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html

Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro@playboy.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 01:57:26 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: CJ Legal Defense
Message-ID: <199811041719.MAA27882@camel7.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Larry Dowling, an Austin attorney participating in CJ's
legal defense, has engaged me to gather information
for CJ's defense. This message and any related
correspondence with me is protected as "attorney 
privileged information." 

Larry, who does not use E-mail, has asked me to
obtain the following information for forwarding to
him (Plaintext and ciphertext welcomed; PK below.
Your choice as to posting responses to cpunks.)

1. How many people who saw the CJ posting cited by 
the IRS as a death threat against federal officials took 
it as a serious threat? See the IRS complaint at:

   http://jya.com/cejfiles.htm

2. If you answer "yes" to the question 1, then in your
opinion are you of sound mind?

3. How many people are willing to help CJ's defense by
answering questions and testify concerning his postings?

4. How many cypherpunks (and others) are willing to 
attend a trial for CJ in Washington State if the government 
proceeds to trial?

For verification of this message here's Larry's contact:

Larry J. Dowling
Attorney at Law
606 West Eleventh Street
Austin, Texas 78701-2007
Tel: (512) 476-8885
Fax: (512) 476-9918

My contact:

John Young
251 West 89th Street, Suite 6E
New York, NY 1002
Tel: (212) 873-8700
Fax: (212) 799-4003

-----

There are John Young  PGP 2.X PKeys 
on the servers. Here's PGP5.5:

-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.5.2 for non-commercial use 
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=KgPx
-----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 03:11:17 +0800
To: "'cypherpunks@cyberpass.net>,       "'e$@vmeng.com'" 
Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone	 Alternative
In-Reply-To: <5F152E6E8E6FD21195DF00104B2425AD02B226@yarrowbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 5:31 PM -0500 11/2/98, Matthew James Gering wrote:
>> paradox of financial cryptography, and, more specifically,
>> digital bearer settlement, is not that it gives you privacy
>> and freedom (anarchy? :-))
>
>Anarchy != privacy

	However, Privacy + Freedom == Anarchy, or close enough to be
indistinguishable.

>In fact to many people privacy is a very statist construct, as they clamor
>for more privacy regulations by government.

	No, to many people, the Government is a magical device that can
repeal the laws of physics, and change peoples hearts. They don't think
that government can *create* privacy, they think it is willing or able to
*enforce* it.

	Then again, there is little enough evidence of thougt amoung "many
people".
--
"To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a
jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a
gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather naďve, and certainly
unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust"
http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html

Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro@playboy.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 03:50:37 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: 0851244.shtml
Message-ID: <199811041847.MAA08231@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



   Advertisement Welcome to Slashdot Science News Technology Star Wars
   Prequels The Internet  faq
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    BSI 
   
   
   Review:Handbook of Applied Cryptography Encryption Posted by Hemos on
   Wednesday November 04, @08:51AM
   from the just-the-facts-ma'am dept.
   Giving some actual theory to the whole cryptography discussion, Ian S.
   Nelson's review of Handbook of Applied Cryptography takes a look at
   this veritable tome of information. This isn't a book for those of you
   trying to figure out exactly what the NSA actually does; this is for
   the real meat and numbers behind it all. Click below for more info.
   
   REVIEW: Handbook of Applied Cryptography Alfred J. Menezes, Paul C.
   van Oorschot, Scott A. Vanstone CRC Press (ISBN 0-8493-8523-7)
   Nutshell
   Review: Required reading for any cryptography freak.
   Rating: 9/10
   
  The Scenario
  
   CRC Press has been building a series of books on discrete mathematics
   and its applications. Doug Stinson wrote the theory book on
   cryptography (Cryptography: Theory and Practice (ISBN: 0-8493-8521-0,
   if you don't like this book you'll vomit when you see the Stinson
   book) and this is the application book on cryptography. It's close to
   800 pages chocked full of information.
   
   I must confess that I'm a cryptography freak and I'm a little sick of
   the constant political discussions and lack of tech talk, this book is
   all tech and might even be a little much if you're not into math. It's
   a wonderful companion to the Schneier books (Applied Cryptography 1st
   or 2nd Edition A.K.A. "the crypto bible") if you're into the nitty
   gritty details of cryptography.
   
  What's Bad?
  
   I really like this book and I can't find a lot that I don't like about
   it... but I think in places the math gets a little thick. I have a
   degree in math and I find myself returning to the math overview
   section more often than I'd like to admit. If you're not familiar with
   discrete math and combinatorics then this book probably isn't for you.
   If you enjoy that stuff, then this will be a piece of cake. If you're
   looking to build your crypto book library up I'd highly recommend this
   book before you get some of the more hard-core books.
   
   Something else I feel is lacking is cryptanalysis on ciphers. They
   discuss attacks on various protocols and hashes but actual attacks on
   ciphers are glossed over. As a companion to Cryptography: Theory and
   Practice, which covers cryptanalysis in more detail, it is
   understandable to leave that material out of this book but I think
   they could discuss it a little more than they do without going into
   specifics.
   
   The no-nonsense style can be a little dry at times, there aren't a lot
   of jokes or anecdotes to lighten things up in this book.
   
  What's Good?
  
   Cipher isn't spelled with a 'y' anywhere in this book. It's not filled
   with a lot of opinion or rumor. It doesn't hardly bring up ITAR, key
   escrow, or the NSA's mystical superpowers. This book is about
   cryptographic techniques and a listing of patents is about as
   political or opinionated as it gets.
   
   It is kind of like a textbook without the problems at the end of each
   chapter. It is written in an outline format with subitems of
   "Definition", "Fact", "Notes", "Example", and "Algorithm." Each
   subitem is followed by a few short but concise paragraphs of
   explanation.
   
   Plenty of charts and figures fill the pages and everything is
   explained well. While it lacks source code, there is certainly enough
   information for you to implement any of the ciphers, hashes, or
   protocols covered. It even includes some test vectors for a lot of the
   algorithms.
   
  So What's In It For Me?
  
   If you want to learn about cryptography, not the politics but the
   actual technology, then this is a great book to get before you get
   over your head. It's very readable and while the math can be a little
   heavy in places it is accessible and useful. It gives you a good
   flavor of how more advanced papers and books on the subject are and it
   avoids the nonacademic discussions surrounding cryptography.
   
   To pick this book up, head over to Amazon and help Slashdot out.
   
    Table of Contents
    1. Overview of Cryptography
         1. Introduction
         2. Information Security and Cryptography
         3. Background on Functions
         4. Basic Terminology and Concepts
         5. Symmetric-key Encryption
         6. Digital Signatures
         7. Authentication and Identification
         8. Public-key Cryptography
         9. Hash Functions
        10. Protocols and mechanisms
        11. Key establishment, management, and certification
        12. Pseudorandom numbers and sequences
        13. Classes of attacks and security models
        14. Notes and further references
    2. Mathematical Background
         1. Probability theory
         2. Information theory
         3. Complexity theory
         4. Number theory
         5. Abstract algebra
         6. Finite fields
         7. Notes and further references
    3. Number-Theoretic Reference Problems
         1. Introduction and overview
         2. The integer factorization problem
         3. The RSA problem
         4. The quadratic residuosity problem
         5. Computing Square roots in Zn
         6. The Discrete logarithm problem
         7. The Diffie-Hellman problem
         8. Composite moduli
         9. Computing individual bits
        10. The subset sum problem
        11. Factoring polynomials over finite fields
        12. Notes and further references
    4. Public-Key Parameters
         1. Introduction
         2. Probabilistic primality tests
         3. (True)Primality tests
         4. Prime number generation
         5. Irreducible polynomials over Zp
         6. Generators and elements of high order
         7. Notes and further references
    5. Pseudorandom Bits and Sequences
         1. Introduction
         2. Random bit generation
         3. Pseudorandom bit generation
         4. Statistical tests
         5. Cryptographically secure pseudorandom bit generation
         6. Notes and further references
    6. Stream Ciphers
         1. Introduction
         2. Feedback shift registers
         3. Stream ciphers based on LFSRs
         4. Other stream ciphers
         5. Notes and further references
    7. Block Ciphers
         1. Introduction
         2. Background and general concepts
         3. Classical ciphers and historical development
         4. DES
         5. FEAL
         6. IDEA
         7. SAFER, RC5, and other block ciphers
         8. Notes and further references
    8. Public-Key Encryption
         1. Introduction
         2. RSA public-key encryption
         3. Rabin public-key encryption
         4. ElGamal public-key encryption
         5. McElliece public-key encryption
         6. Knapsack public-key encryption
         7. Probabilistic public-key encryption
         8. Notes and further references
    9. Hash Functions and Data Integrity
         1. Introduction
         2. Classification and framework
         3. Basic constructions and general results
         4. Unkeyed hash functions (MDCs)
         5. Keyed hash functions (MACs)
         6. Data integrity and message authentication
         7. Advanced attacks on hash functions
         8. Notes and further references
   10. Identification and Entity Authentication
         1. Introduction
         2. Passwords (weak authentication)
         3. Challenge-response identification (strong authentication)
         4. Customized zero-knowledge identification protocols
         5. Attacks on identification protocols
         6. Notes and further references
   11. Digital Signatures
         1. Introduction
         2. A framework for digital signature mechanisms
         3. RSA and related signature schemes
         4. Fiat-Shamir signature schemes
         5. The DSA and related signature schemes
         6. One-time digital signatures
         7. Other signatures schemes
         8. Signatures with additional functionality
         9. Notes and further references
   12. Key Establishment Protocols
         1. Introduction
         2. Classification and framework
         3. Key transport based on symmetric encryption
         4. Key agreement based on symmetric techniques
         5. Key transport based on public-key encryption
         6. Key agreement based on asymmetric techniques
         7. Secret Sharing
         8. Conference Keying
         9. Analysis of key establishment protocols
        10. Notes and further references
   13. Key Management Techniques
         1. Introduction
         2. Background and basic concepts
         3. Techniques for distributing confidential keys
         4. Techniques for distributing public keys
         5. Techniques for controlling key usage
         6. Key management involving multiple domains
         7. Key life cycle issues
         8. Advanced trusted third party services
         9. Notes and further references
   14. Efficient Implementation
         1. Introduction
         2. Multiple-precision integer arithmetic
         3. Multiple-precision modular arithmetic
         4. Greatest common divisor algorithms
         5. Chinese remainder theorem for integers
         6. Exponentiation
         7. Exponent recoding
         8. Notes and further references
   15. Patents and Standards
         1. Introduction
         2. Patents on cryptographic techniques
         3. Cryptographic standards
         4. Notes and further references
   16. Appendix A: Bibligraphy of Papers from Selected Cryptographic
       Forums
         1. Asiacrypt/Auscrypt Proceedings
         2. Crypto Proceedings
         3. Eurocrypt Proceedings
         4. Fast Software Encryption Proceedings
         5. Journal of Cryptology papers
            
   <  The demise of Crack.com | Reply | Flattened | 50 Gb drives from
   Seagate  >
   
     Related Links
   
   Slashdot
   
   Cryptography: Theory and Practice
   
   book
   
   Amazon
   
   Ian S. Nelson's
   
   NSA
   
   More on Encryption 
   
   Also by Hemos [INLINE]
   
   Amazon Info The books here are brought to us in Partnership with
   Amazon.com.
   
   If you follow the links around here, and eventually buy a book, we get
   a percentage of the cost!
   
   Want books about any of these things? Perl, Linux, Unix, Gardening,
   CGI, Java?
   
   Still not finding what you're looking for? Visit Amazon.com from this
   link, and we still get some credit. Or you could even Search Amazon
   using this convenient form:
   ____________________ ______
   [INLINE]
   
   The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted
   them. Slashdot is not responsible for what they say.
   
   
   < Down One | This Page's Threshold: 0 | Up One >
   (Warning:this stuff is extremely beta right now)
   Amazon.com confuses "Applied Cryptography" with "H
   by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 04, @09:09AM
   For those of you who order the Handbook of Applied Cryptography, don't
   be suprised if amazon sends you Bruce Schneiers "Applied Cryptography"
   instead.....its happened to me and another person I know..
   
   
   [ Reply to this ] politics / history is relevant (Score:1)
   by harshaw on Wednesday November 04, @10:00AM
   (User Info)
   
   On of the great things about Schneier's Applied Cryptography was how
   he intertwined the mathematics with the political ramifications of the
   particular crypto algorithm. I think the study of Crypto needs to be
   tightly coupled with an understanding of the societal / political
   issues around it. For instance, you can't simply implement 128 bit RC5
   in your product and ship it of to Iraq without having RSA (for patent
   violations) and the NSA (for the obvious reasons) come down on your
   head.
   
   
   IMO, Crypto is a VERY tough subject and requires an intense amount of
   study to understand the math. If the text you are studying is dry and
   lacking wit or humor, it makes the job even harder :(
   [ Reply to this ]
     * politics / history is relevant by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday
       November 04, @11:57AM
       
   
   
   Loved it! I laughed! I cried! (Score:1)
   by bobse on Wednesday November 04, @11:14AM
   (User Info) What I liked was the way that each algorithm was reviewed
   in a very consistent manner. Most algorithms were described not just
   with words and mathematics (which is good), but also with pseudocode
   (which is great if you are actually trying to implement this stuff).
   The consistent, itemized format also allows you to compare the
   strengths/weaknesses of different algorithms yourself, instead of
   relying on someone else to do it for you. Very cool.
   
   9.5/10
   
   
   [ Reply to this ] Price Check (Score:1)
   by Ralph Bearpark on Wednesday November 04, @12:15PM
   (User Info) As an onging service to /. readers ...
   
   Amazon = $84.95
   BarnesAndNoble = $109.50 (HAHAHAHA!)
   Shopping books = $71.96
   Spree books = $67.99
   
   (Is it my imagination, or is /. reviewing increasingly expensive,
   non-Amazon-discounted books? Surely not. :-))
   
   Regards, Ralph.
   [ Reply to this ]
     * Price Check by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday November 04, @01:12PM
       
   
   
   The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted
   them. Slashdot is not responsible for what they say.
   
   
   < Down One | This Page's Threshold: 0 | Up One >
   (Warning:this stuff is extremely beta right now)
     ____________________ ______
   
     All newspaper editorial writers ever do is come down from the hills
   after the battle is over and shoot the wounded. All trademarks and
   copyrights on this page are owned by their respective companies.
   Comments are owned by the Poster. The Rest © 1998 Rob Malda. [
   home | awards | supporters | rob's homepage | contribute story |
   older articles | advertising | past polls | about | faq | BSI ]




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Steven Cooper 
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 03:12:27 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: hoping to obtains copies of documentation ...
Message-ID: <199811041814.NAA27597@insight.cas.mcmaster.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




There are two informative documents available from GEMPLUS (France)
as part of their development kit for their GPK4000 smartcard.

   1. GPK4000 Application Notes (for public key applications)
	Banking, Personal Identification, Internet Transactions 
   2. Electronic Purse Architecture for MPCOS-EMV
	(for DES and 3-DES applications)

Unfortunately, it the kit costs more than US$4k.

Any chance some kind soul could forward a copy of these documents?
If so, email me directly to make arrangements.

-- scoop




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 06:17:41 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: [FP] L.A. DMV Tries to Stem the Tide of Fake Licenses
Message-ID: <199811042123.NAA18961@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: "ScanThisNews" 
Subject: IP: [FP] L.A. DMV Tries to Stem the Tide of Fake Licenses
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 22:30:13 -0600
To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com


SCAN THIS NEWS

[This is a little dated, but well worth reading]

--------------------------------------------

Sunday, April 5, 1998

DMV Tries to Stem the Tide of Fake Licenses

Crime: Demand for IDs fuels counterfeiting rings and corruption inside the
agency. Officials respond with anti-tampering features, more monitoring of
workers.

By VIRGINIA ELLIS, Times Staff Writer

SACRAMENTO - The California driver's license's preeminence as a form of
identification has spawned a thriving black market for fraudulent licenses
and a major corruption scandal in the state's motor vehicle department,
records and interviews show.

In recent years, as the lowly driver's license has been redesigned to make
it more tamper-resistant, the card has increasingly become the dominant
piece of identification for cashing checks, obtaining credit and securing
government services.

This, in turn, has caused the black market value for licenses to soar,
providing a catalyst for counterfeiting and bribery of Department of Motor
Vehicles employees. Scores of DMV workers in offices from San Diego to
Sacramento already have been caught illegally issuing driver's licenses, and
officials say many more are under investigation.

"We have, in effect, created a cottage industry," said Steve Solem, a DMV
deputy director. "A lot of different changes have been evolving over the
years that have made...people feel the need to get a driver's license at any
cost."

As a result, officials report that:

* Counterfeiting rings operate in every large city in the state, serving up
fake licenses of varying quality for sale on the streets. In Los Angeles,
business is so competitive that state investigators say a prospective
customer can bargain for the best price. A counterfeit identification
package, including a license, usually sells for $100, but state agents have
paid as little as $35.

* At many of the DMV's busiest offices, scam artists make use of loopholes
in procedures to get legitimate licenses, which are then peddled to
undocumented immigrants or suspended drivers. In Santa Clara County, a
four-month surveillance of DMV offices recently led to 26 felony and 16
misdemeanor arrests for using false documents to obtain driver's licenses.

* In the past two years, 144 DMV employees were fired or otherwise
disciplined for illegal activity, primarily driver's license fraud. Most
cases were referred for prosecution. The corruption affected more than a
third of the DMV offices.

"It's by far the biggest scandal and case of severe corruption in my 16
years here," said state Sen. Steve Peace (D-El Cajon), who heads a
legislative task force on personal privacy. "It's not a single organized
entity. It's a number of entrepreneurial criminal activities."

Late this year, officials plan to begin issuing new licenses with even more
sophisticated anti-tampering features to help stem the tide of
license-related crime. Among the features will be a tiny ghost image
designed to make it harder to substitute one person's photo for another.

"You've got to be as technologically alert as the criminals out there," said
DMV Director Sally Reed. "You've got to keep changing the license. You've
got to keep changing your practices."

Complicating the task is an overwhelming DMV workload. The department
licenses more than 20 million California drivers, issues more than 6 million
new licenses and identification cards a year, and operates 172 licensing
centers around the state.

How many fake and fraudulent licenses may be in circulation is impossible to
calculate. But state officials say the problem is rampant, its impact on
society insidious.

A fraudulent driver's license that is used to steal someone's identity can
cause years of frustration as the victim suddenly finds his or her credit
destroyed. Or the fake license can put a convicted drunk driver back on the
highway, where the next accident may cause someone's death.

The role of the driver's license in criminal activity was heightened not
only by the technological changes that made it so widely accepted, but by
governmental decisions to use it as a tool for punishment.

New laws have made a larger and larger pool of people susceptible to losing
their license for activities unrelated to driving. The license can be
suspended for spraying graffiti, failure to pay child support, truancy and
certain kinds of prostitution. And immigrants who lack proper proof of
residency cannot be issued one.

"If you're a drunk driver, you want a fake ID," said Alison Koch, a senior
special investigator for the DMV in Sacramento. "If you're in a gang, you
want a fake ID. If you're a deadbeat dad, you want a fake ID. If you're an
illegal alien, you want a fake ID. If you want to commit check or credit
card fraud, you want a fake ID.

"There is hardly a crime out there that doesn't demand some kind of
fraudulent identification."

For many minor crimes, she said, a bogus license - even a poor one - is all
the fraud artist needs. The quick glance that many business people give the
license before cashing a check or accepting a credit card is not enough to
discern that it's fake.

For more sophisticated crimes, said Vito Scattaglia, an area commander for
DMV investigators in Los Angeles, criminals want the real thing - and this
demand for legitimate licenses has put heavy pressure on low-level state
employees to commit fraud.

"When you have a technician who is making $2,000 to $2,400 a month and you
have an individual who is willing to pay $1,000 to process one driver's
license, you don't have to be a genius to figure out how tempting that is,"
he said.

But Peace, the state senator, said high-level officials did not recognize
how extensively their department had been infiltrated by criminals until an
embarrassing KCBS-TV Channel 2 report last year caught a DMV employee on
camera processing illegal licenses.

Until the Los Angeles broadcast, only a handful of DMV investigators had
been monitoring employee fraud, and they were struggling with a huge
backlog.

Then Reed temporarily assigned 213 DMV investigators to employee fraud and
announced that it would be the agency's No. 1 priority.

The results were staggering. Using everything from surveillance to
informants, investigators caught dozens of DMV employees around the state
processing illegal licenses. Many were teamed up with grifters on the
outside, who usually worked the DMV parking lots, preying mostly on
immigrants who would be guaranteed a license for about $1,000 to $2,000.

Typical was the case of an 18-year Torrance employee who was targeted after
a DMV computer in Sacramento showed irregularities in licenses he had
issued. After investigators interviewed dozens of his customers, the
employee was charged with computer fraud and altering public records.

"The first person I interviewed, I knew I was on the right trail," recalled
Ken Erickson, a senior DMV special investigator. "The customer was honest.
He said, 'Yeah, I'm here illegally and I can't read or write either English
or Spanish.'"

But, Erickson said, data the Torrance employee had entered into the DMV
computer stated that the man was a legal resident of California who had
passed the written driver's test in English.

Investigators searched the employee's car and found $14,280 in cash stashed
behind the front seat, Erickson said. They estimated that over a 15-month
period he had improperly issued at least 70 licenses. After pleading no
contest to two felony counts, he was fined $14,280 and placed on three years
probation. He also was fired and barred from future government employment.

The employee fraud, Peace said, is "not some sort of single grand conspiracy
with a godfather sitting on top pulling levers."

"What it has been is a culture within the department that has allowed for a
whole variety of entrepreneurial criminal behavior. It was a culture which
says, 'I've got my little deal and you've got yours. Don't mess with mine
and I won't mess with yours.'"

Although the problem predated Reed's appointment as director, Peace faulted
her for initially disbelieving it and being "slow to react" until the
television report.

Reed acknowledged the bad publicity was a wake-up call but disputed Peace's
contention the DMV has a culture of corruption, saying the vast majority of
the DMV's 8,600 workers are law-abiding.

A spokesman for the California State Employees Assn., which represents DMV
employees, accused the department of overreacting. He said the crackdown has
destroyed worker morale and become so broad that "it could very likely be
called a witch hunt."

Investigators concede that corruption within the DMV probably pales compared
to that on the outside.

Richard Steffen, chief consultant for a legislative task force investigating
state government, said crime rings are able to get legitimate licenses
simply by knowing how to work the system.

He said they know, for example, that photos and thumbprints are not taken
until the end of the licensing procedure, a process tailor-made for the use
of ringers. The ringer takes the driver's test, then the customer comes in
the next day and completes the process. "There is a pattern here that is
known on the street," said Steffen, who is preparing to release a report on
the DMV. "It's not like masterminds come up with this."

Birth certificates, which the DMV requires, are easily counterfeited, and
phony ones are hard to spot, officials said. The appearance of birth
certificates varies from state to state and sometimes, as in California,
from county to county. Adding to the problem is California's open birth
certificate procedure, which allows virtually anyone to get a certified copy
of anyone else's birth record.

One team of ringers arrested by the California Highway Patrol was found with
counterfeit birth certificates from Oklahoma, Utah, New York and Texas,
according to Bruce Wong, a senior DMV investigator in San Jose.

"They were driving up the state from Southern California, stopping at
different DMV offices and submitting license applications under different
names," he said. "In one day of driving, they had accumulated eight
different instructional permits, which they could then sell along with the
counterfeit birth certificate."

Solem said some loopholes in licensing procedures will be closed when the
department begins issuing the new licenses and taking photos and thumbprints
at the beginning of the process.

"But this is a problem that's going to be with us," he added. "Government
does something and the crooks figure a way around it and then government
catches up. It goes on and on."

Scattaglia said much of the counterfeiting may have its roots south of the
border, but no one knows for sure because investigators have only been able
to arrest the sellers, not the suppliers.

"We have gone into places and recovered sheets and sheets of holograms and
state seals - literally a setup [for] putting a license together," he said.
"But we've never found the commercial facility that has the printing presses
and all the orders. The informants we have all indicated that that place is
somewhere in Mexico."

Beth Givens, director of the San Diego-based Privacy Rights Clearinghouse, a
consumer information and advocacy program, predicted that driver's license
fraud will always be difficult to control because it's not a violent crime
and punishment is light.

"If these criminals happened to break and enter or use a gun, it would be
one thing," she said. "But because they're using paper and documents,
they're not seen as a threat to society."

Banking officials are starting to rethink their heavy reliance on the
driver's license. "That's certainly a trend that's underway because they are
increasingly fake," said Gregory Wilhelm, lobbyist for the California
Bankers Assn.

Los Angeles Times

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 06:15:35 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 6.05: U. of T. Students Question Smartcard Technology & Privacy
Message-ID: <199811042123.NAA18974@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: "ama-gi ISPI" 
Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 6.05: U. of T. Students Question Smartcard Technology & Privacy
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 00:19:58 -0800
To: 

ISPI Clips 6.05: U. of T. Students Question Smartcard Technology & Privacy
News & Info from the Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI)
Tuesday November 3, 1998
ISPI4Privacy@ama-gi.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This From: WIRED News, November 2, 1998
http://www.wired.com

Students Wonder: How Smart?
http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/15978.html

by
Marlene Blanshay, blanshay@total.net

TORONTO -- A coalition of University of Toronto students is leading an open
forum on smartcard technology Monday to discuss concerns that a new campus
card program may be compromising their privacy.

The T-card pilot project began last year when the university distributed
45,000 smartcards to students, staff, and faculty. Like many students
across the US, where such programs are common, the 39,000 Toronto
volunteers were sold on the convenience of having all their ID combined on
a single piece of plastic.

"[Students] don't have to carry around so many cards," said University of
Toronto registrar Karel Swift, the chairwoman of the school's T-card
implementation committee.

Not everybody feels that way. The university says it has been open about
the new program, but some students feel that the school has not been up
front with them about what is being done with information on purchases made
with the card.

"We just want some answers," said James Hooch of the Identity Technology
Working Group, the coalition of students and faculty that will host
Monday's forum.

"We feel we are being used as a captive market."

Andrew Clement, a professor of information studies at the University of
Toronto, said the university has an obligation to be more open about the
project.

"We don't think they are up to some nefarious scheme," said Clement,
moderator of Monday's forum. "But they are implementing the new technology,
which is going to be used in a wider setting, and should be setting a good
example."

Nevertheless, Swift said that students have not been left out of the
process.

"We consulted with student reps when the project was under consideration,"
Swift said. She added that the university has privacy policy and that their
records are protected by a rigorous access to information policy.

Some still worry that the university, in the interest of efficiency, is
introducing a new technology without looking at the potential uses or
misuses.

"There is a lot of concern among the students about collection of
information for purposes they are not aware of," says Jack Dimond, the
university's commissioner for freedom of information and privacy. "My
concern is that as smartcards are used more, there is a procedure of review
of information it collects. When you begin using the new applications, you
have to look at them closely."

One freedom and privacy advocate encourages students to boycott the cards.

"[Students] should just say, 'I refuse to use this card for any cash
purchases until you tell me where this info is going and what you're doing
with it,'" said David Jones, president of Electronic Frontier Canada.

Copyright (c) 1994-98 Wired Digital Inc.


--------------------------------NOTICE:------------------------------
ISPI Clips are news & opinion articles on privacy issues from
all points of view; they are clipped from local, national and international
newspapers, journals and magazines, etc. Inclusion as an ISPI Clip
does not necessarily reflect an endorsement of the content or opinion
by ISPI. In compliance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed free without profit or payment for non-profit research
and educational purposes only.
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with respect to government, industry and each other and to likewise
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But, none of this can be accomplished without your kind and
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "SETI@home" 
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 06:27:03 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: SETI@home Project Update
Message-ID: <199811042141.NAA10920@siren.ssl.berkeley.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Dear SETI@home volunteer:

Thank you for signing up for SETI@home.  We're on schedule to
distribute the SETI@home screensaver program in April 1999, and
we'll send you another email when that happens.

On October 30 we began recording data at the world's largest
radio telescope, located in Arecibo, Puerto Rico.  Preliminary
versions of the screensaver program and the data distribution
system have been completed.  On November 20 we will begin
testing the system with a group of 100 users analyzing real data
(sorry - no more volunteers needed).  Over the next few months
we will complete the testing, making sure the system will handle
large numbers of users.

We are pleased to thank SETI@home's sponsors and technology
partners: the Planetary Society (a 100,000 member organization
founded by Carl Sagan), Paramount Studios (in conjunction with
their new movie, Star Trek IX:  Insurrection), Sun Microsystems,
EDT, Fuji Film Computer Products, Informix, and individual donors
like you. The screen saver will be free for everyone, but if
you can consider making a tax-deductible donation to SETI@home,
please visit http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/donor.html.
We also invite you to become a member of The Planetary Society.
You can visit their site at http://www.planetary.org.

For further SETI@home information and news, please see
http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu.

Thank you again for offering to participate in SETI@home.  Our
work is enhanced and inspired by the enthusiasm of thoughtful,
adventurous, and generous people like you.

If you wish to remove your name from the SETI@home email list,
please send an empty email message to this address with subject
header "remove".

Best wishes,

The SETI@home project




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "SETI@home" 
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 07:28:05 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: SETI@home Project Update
Message-ID: <199811042141.NAA10924@siren.ssl.berkeley.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Dear SETI@home volunteer:

Thank you for signing up for SETI@home.  We're on schedule to
distribute the SETI@home screensaver program in April 1999, and
we'll send you another email when that happens.

On October 30 we began recording data at the world's largest
radio telescope, located in Arecibo, Puerto Rico.  Preliminary
versions of the screensaver program and the data distribution
system have been completed.  On November 20 we will begin
testing the system with a group of 100 users analyzing real data
(sorry - no more volunteers needed).  Over the next few months
we will complete the testing, making sure the system will handle
large numbers of users.

We are pleased to thank SETI@home's sponsors and technology
partners: the Planetary Society (a 100,000 member organization
founded by Carl Sagan), Paramount Studios (in conjunction with
their new movie, Star Trek IX:  Insurrection), Sun Microsystems,
EDT, Fuji Film Computer Products, Informix, and individual donors
like you. The screen saver will be free for everyone, but if
you can consider making a tax-deductible donation to SETI@home,
please visit http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/donor.html.
We also invite you to become a member of The Planetary Society.
You can visit their site at http://www.planetary.org.

For further SETI@home information and news, please see
http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu.

Thank you again for offering to participate in SETI@home.  Our
work is enhanced and inspired by the enthusiasm of thoughtful,
adventurous, and generous people like you.

If you wish to remove your name from the SETI@home email list,
please send an empty email message to this address with subject
header "remove".

Best wishes,

The SETI@home project




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Duncan Frissell 
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 03:15:17 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Quick, Dear -- Beat Me
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199811041840.NAA00424@mail1.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At last an Administration Domestic Violence provision I can support.  Al
Gore has just proposed that victims of domestic violence should be able to
easily get new SS#.  Collect a dozen.

New options for privacy vis-a-vis private individuals and even the government.

Protection of "victims" won't work if the new number is reported to the Big
Three credit reporting bureaus.

DCF




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Bernardo B. Terrado" 
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 14:35:47 +0800
To: coderpunks@toad.com
Subject: knapsack...
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




 Could someone tell(give) me where to get a source code
 for the knapsack algo (w/ backtracking).
 
 I am going to "parallelize" it.
 
 (suggestions/comments ?)
 
 
 Thank you.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Duncan Frissell 
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 03:34:14 +0800
To: Michael Motyka 
Subject: Re: ?Lions?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199811041855.NAA03080@mail1.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 09:17 AM 11/4/98 -0800, Michael Motyka wrote:

>It is the financial foundation for a cyber world where regulators will
>probably have a great deal of trouble operating. They may have no choice
>but to settle for taking their cut at the borders.

Note that the "informal" sector as a percentage of the "formal center is
100% for the Russian economy, 30% for the Italian and Belgium economies and
at least 10% of the US economy with conventional payment systems.  

>I still see many of the same old problems when attempting to trade hard
>goods, at least in large quantities. The problem of having to explain
>how you came by a 6000 sqare foot home on 100 acres of mountainside in
>Lake Pacid is not solved. It's not a total solution but it looks good.

Rent don't buy.

>It could be a great way to save for retirement - nobody can tell how
>much E$ you have accumulated, where it came from or where you keep it.
>Just draw it out as you need it, pay your taxes at the gate and use the
>5th when necessary.

True.  Even works for general purposes.  Very hard to "net worth" people.
Expensive process.

DCF




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 07:17:59 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone Alternative
Message-ID: <5F152E6E8E6FD21195DF00104B2425AD02B232@yarrowbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



[dbts and e$ Cc: dropped]

Petro wrote:
> However, Privacy + Freedom == Anarchy, or close enough to be
> indistinguishable.

However much I may or may not agree with you, that is an entirely subjective
judgement. In political context, anarchy = without rule of government --
nothing more, nothing less. That necessarily means you will have freedom
from government, but does not imply you will have freedom from others. Ditto
for privacy. In fact there is good claim that privacy will not exist in
anarchy except by those that decide to use the tools and methods to achieve
it -- cat and mouse game same as today, except the corporate cats are bound
by economics (the value of data to them versus the cost to obtain it)
whereas government cats are not.

	Matt




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Total Telecom Web 
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 00:20:45 +0800
To: "cypherpunks@toad.com>
Subject: Registration
Message-ID: <199811041539.PAA03615@mixy.aspectgroup.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Thankyou for registering with Total Telecom

Your username is: cypherpunks@toad.com

Your password is: cypherpunks

If you haven't already done so, you can set a 'cookie' to make entry
easier - go to - http:www.totaltele.com/register/help.asp

If at anytime you wish the change your user profile - go to -
http:www.totaltele.com/register/edit.asp

We recomend you keep a copy of these details in case you forget your
password or your 'cookie' is lost.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 05:37:28 +0800
To: mac-crypto@vmeng.com
Subject: DigiCash Inc. to File Reorganization, Seeks Partners to Drive eCash Forward
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Reply-To: 
From: "Scott Loftesness" 
To: 
Subject: DigiCash Inc. to File Reorganization, Seeks Partners to Drive
 eCash Forward
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 12:32:56 -0800
Mime-Version: 1.0
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-Msmail-Priority: Normal
Importance: Normal
X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3
Sender: 
Precedence: Bulk
List-Subscribe: 
X-Web-Archive: http://www.philodox.com/dbs-archive/

FYI...

DigiCash Inc. to File Reorganization, Seeks Partners to Drive eCash Forward

PALO ALTO, CALIF.--November 4, 1998

DigiCash Inc. has announced that it is entering into a Chapter 11
reorganization to allow it to pursue strategic alternatives for its
electronic cash ("eCash" (tm)) products and the associated intellectual assets
pioneered by DigiCash.

According to Scott Loftesness, interim CEO of DigiCash, "The company is
exploring a range of potential alternatives including working with major
strategic players to finance the market development of eCash or the sale
and/or licensing of the Company's intellectual property portfolio."
Loftesness added, "eCash(tm), as it has been developed by DigiCash, is an
important and inevitable payment solution in the world of global electronic
commerce."

The DigiCash payment solution is currently in use by leading banks in Europe
and Australia.  These banks have deployed the DigiCash eCash solution and
continue to add to their respective consumer and merchant eCash acceptance
networks.

DigiCash's eCash(tm) payment solution offers a secure, low cost and private
payment option to consumers for payments of any amount.  The intellectual
property owned by DigiCash consists of a series of patents, protocols, and
software systems that were specifically designed to be privacy protecting
for consumers and which also enable other applications like online
electronic voting.  The ability to pay privately, without revealing personal
information, and avoiding the capture of personal transaction information
for marketing or other subsequent uses is a growing concern among consumers
globally.

Contact: Scott Loftesness: (650) 798-8183 or via email: sjl@sjl.net

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 07:39:31 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811042301.RAA09484@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: Matthew James Gering 
> Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone
> 	 Alternative
> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 14:29:47 -0800 

> Petro wrote:
> > However, Privacy + Freedom == Anarchy, or close enough to be
> > indistinguishable.

This is silly.

> for privacy. In fact there is good claim that privacy will not exist in
> anarchy except by those that decide to use the tools and methods to achieve
> it -- cat and mouse game same as today, except the corporate cats are bound
> by economics (the value of data to them versus the cost to obtain it)
> whereas government cats are not.

They're bound by economics and nothing else, not even the government cats.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: netcenter-news1@netscape.com
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 06:35:55 +0800
To: 
Subject: FREE CD With Your Free Netcenter Membership
Message-ID: <199811042203.RAA28336@mail.video-collage.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 07:59:21 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811042335.RAA09772@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 18:29:20 -0500
> From: Robert Hettinga 
> Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone
>  (fwd)

> At 6:01 PM -0500 on 11/4/98, Jim Choate wrote, from the bowels of my killfile:
> 
> 
> > They're bound by economics and nothing else, not even the government cats.
> 
> Amen.

Which is why it's a *BAD* idea.

> A government is just another economic actor. A very large economic actor
> with lots of guns and a monopoly on force, but an economic actor
> nonetheless.

You need to look around, the government has NO monopoly on force.

> Reality is not optional.

Absolutely, that's why any free-market/anarchy is doomed to fail.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 07:46:56 +0800
To: Digital Bearer Settlement List 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----


Okay.

Contrary to my own previous -- and painfully recent -- opinions on the matter,
Digicash, Inc., is, more or less, in play again, or it will be if there is
enough money chasing it. Whatever "enough" means.

Putting on my Gordon Gekko hat, here, I'm interested in finding out a few
things. Yes, I have seen the greater fool theory of the blind signature patent
operate more than a few times, but I am, nonetheless, driven to think about
this, and I might as well be public in my musing, at least for the time being.


For expenses of any new company, it should be pretty clear by now what I would
do with the DigiCash technology portfolio. I would put a real good
intellectual property lawyer on the payroll, keep the cryptographers who would
still consent to stick around, keep or improve whatever software test people
they have left, and do nothing but sell licenses and implementation
certifications, using the the underwiting model at
 as a roadmap.

For this imaginary company's revenue, aside from direct fees for validating a
developer's, and possibly an underwriter's, implementation of the protocol,
the trustee would be the only point of patent royalty collection and payment
from the underwriters and developers to the new patent holder.

As far as the current installed base is concerned, I would probably spin off a
company to support those customers, and give it a non-exclusive license as if
it were any other developer.

This assumes, of course, that DigiCash BV/Inc. didn't issue
exclusive-by-country licenses. While it appears on the surface that they have
done exactly this, I have been met with what seems like incredulity from
various DigiCash folks when I talk about it, so, for the time being, I'll take
them at their word when they tell me it isn't so. Actually, when I think about
it, it may be immaterial, as there are lots of countries on the internet to
park underwriters and trustees in, and they can denominate their bearer cash
instruments in any currency they want.

One way or another, the software side of DigiCash would be gone. We figure out
what the net present value is of the current licenses, and hope that a company
can be formed around that cashflow and spun off into a separate software
development company. If we're lucky, we make money on the spinoff and keep the
patent. If we're not lucky, DigiCash will probably have to get rid of it's
current obligations before *anyone* clueful would step in to pick up the
patents, and just the patents, alone.


Obviously, what has been spent so far building DigiCash, BV or Inc., is
immaterial to any discussion of the future. Just like what happened to Chaum,
et. al., when Negroponte and companies um, executed, the purchase of last
version of DigiCash, we have to completely forget the all the money which
has been spent on Digicash BV, now Digicash Inc., so far, and ignore the
howls of the current investors, as painful as that may be to listen to. :-).
They knew the job was dangerous when they took it, anyway...


Okay, that's a nice story. How about some actual data? I expect the best way
to get a handle of royalties is to start soliciting actual projected royalty
estimates from potential developers and underwriters, but, frankly, I think
that most developers and underwriters, like the rest of us, have no real idea
how much money they're going to make. Nonetheless, if anyone's interested in
telling me, offline, what they think they would would be fair royalty
payments, either as an underwriter or as a developer, I'd like to hear their
estimates. My PGP key is attached.

My own rule of thumb, for cash anyway, is that an underwriter can probably
charge no more than a bank charges to one of their non-customer ATM
transactions. That's probably no more than $3.00 a withdrawl. They also get to
keep the interest on the reserve account, if any, of course. Frankly, if the
royalties are low enough, that may be more than enough revenue to bootstrap a
business with, and   I would personally lobby for as low a royalty structure
as possible. That, of course, is driven entirely by the cost/revenue picture,
but it might be that a majority of the short-term operations can be
bootstrapped out of validation fees.


That leaves all the other potential markets for blind-signature macroscale
digital bearer settlement, everything from long-duration bandwidth purchases
for IP or voice dialtone on up to actual securities transactions themselves.
Most of these potential applications will occur after the patents expire,
but whoever owns these patents should allow not only licenses to all comers,
but, more to the point, should allow all *licensees* to worry about the
legal ramafications of the patents' use.

If a particular licensee can find a legal jurisdiction to offer utterly
anonymous digital bearer instruments backed by totally anonymous reserves,
then, as long as the licensee pays up, god bless 'em. The patents should be
licensed within the law, certainly, but, other than that, their use should be
considered value neutral, like all technology. As in all bearer markets
before them, the digital bearer trustee will be the point of maximum legal
compliance, and, as such, will be the functional "policeman" of the system.  I
leave the interesting solution of bearer-backed trustees for some other day,
probably after the patents have long expired.


Okay. There's lots more to talk about, of course, but I'm kind of tapped out
on this for the time being.

If you're an intellectual property lawyer, and you fancy yourself running the
DigiCash patent portfolio, contact me directly. I'm not sure exactly what I
can do, if anything, but I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts on this,
as the potential core person of this as yet imaginary enterprize, up to, and
including what it would cost for you to sign on for this much fun as at least
in-house counsel, if not the actual CEO. :-).

In addition, if someone has a reasonable non-proprietary(!) estimate of the
projected revenues on all those outstanding ecash contracts, that would be
nice to know as well. The terms of those contracts, are, of course, probably
unknowable at the moment, at least until someone has enough known scratch to
belly up to the table, sign an NDA and take a peek. Of course, then they
couldn't tell us anything anyway...

Isn't this fun?



Cheers,
Bob Hettinga

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.5.5

iQEVAwUBNkDcTMUCGwxmWcHhAQFEgwf8DBmtjkxkrvwRBNdaMHwLGkjPHPFvhrNq
+IwQrajratocfyKDmeUIiC4EmPIFxstFg59plpzgnM8TTXqSebqsYZaycVZquo03
SDI2cXV9H4O+iUdW9glpT4R0aZbGMXTu3ji9wbvvYjSqVro4w6cq3f9Tk6QGGCdW
AQQolnnTkSjqXeafWrD0WxDXbQCw83lKcrTmFHAkP/YzDD8Z5obVD4+THd3Zlcys
jyAlvAcZFwcxtifumBh8vNrSLc0vdkdD4+Mw5TDRqRMHynF+DLE6Ek2kOL+3blJ2
R6vfaYzVJTRjJFtVdYrbctWAkbWCL/Obf31oZzsz1cWtNn6TgVmG/g==
=M1uk
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


Here are my PGP keys, for them as want 'em:


-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.5.5

mQGiBDS2zbQRBADkXbVlxD0ABf66RPDa//8wtyO3evDk3dMLl9gV9W6W8BQds9gM
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+TCisQKnS9U/ybFEKJErNpoapsh6m02RK4WADZk0pwO1Rh4K+P6sVRJktwCg/8iQ
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9X3PBAChBfP/ZdP+g5XMr+pWCRAduoOOWUwkFJ+Dy+dK4gnkJI7UxIrTzH1t3Crp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-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 08:00:21 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 6:01 PM -0500 on 11/4/98, Jim Choate wrote, from the bowels of my killfile:


> They're bound by economics and nothing else, not even the government cats.

Amen.

A government is just another economic actor. A very large economic actor
with lots of guns and a monopoly on force, but an economic actor
nonetheless.

Reality is not optional.

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 03:37:37 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com
Subject: Dead man running; metabolism no problem to candidates
Message-ID: <199811041910.UAA11450@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 03:13 PM 11/3/98 -0800, Bill Stewart wrote:
>On the other hand, it's still tempting to see about putting Frank Zappa
>on the ballot.  He is a bit metabolically challenged these days,


Here in LA, we had a Dead Man Running for sheriff.  This Shermie Block
character croaked before the race, but his party still urged voting for him,
to spite his opponent.  (Some "board" would appoint a replacement, so
the vote was actually for the board.)








  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Lewis McCarthy 
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 10:25:23 +0800
To: Cypherpunks List 
Subject: Thurs. night seminar in W. Mass.: All About Alice (and Bob, Eve, and Oscar, too):  The Research Culture of Cryptography
Message-ID: <36410383.A502BDCF@cs.umass.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



This talk by Jean-Francois Blanchette tomorrow (Thurs.) night may be of interest to 
those of you in the vicinity of western Massachusetts. Check www.hampshire.edu 
for a map and directions. 

Enjoy
-Lewis


--- begin forwarded message ---

ISIS  wrote:
 
 Seminar: All About Alice (and Bob, Eve, and Oscar, too):  The Research Culture of Cryptography
 
 Location: West Lecture Hall, Franklin Patterson Hall, Hampshire College,
 =>=>=>  Thursday, November 5, 7:30pm
 
 Modern cryptology researchers have been enthusiastically portrayed in the
 media as cyberspace's Freedom Fighters, and the fruit of their work, as
 tangible evidence that computers not only control, but can also liberate.
 In this seminar, we'll see how this simplistic picture of cryptological
 research shapes both the public perceptions of cryptology, and
 cryptologist's perceptions of themselves and their work.
 Jean-Francois Blanchette will discuss how the culture of secrecy and
 military intelligence has deeply informed the models cryptologists use to
 analyze and design security artifacts. He will also discuss how, from a
 initial concern with communication secrecy, cryptological research has
 dramatically expanded its scope to encompass digital signatures and
 certificates, watermarking, e-cash, copy-protection, and other domains.
 These are all artifacts of much broader cultural and societal import that
 can be fit under the analytical category of "privacy." Cryptologists, as
 well as the rest of us, have to imagine and invent richer and more complex
 representations of what cryptological research is about and what its
 object is, and to explore other social and ethical paradigms than those
 offered by privacy and confidentiality.
 Jean-Francois Blanchette is a graduate student in the Department of
 Science, Technology and Society at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute.
 Trained as a cryptologist, he is now researching and writing about the
 practices, cultures, and ethics of cryptology.

--- end forwarded message ---




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Blanc" 
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 13:48:25 +0800
To: 
Subject: RE: Quick, Dear -- Beat Me
In-Reply-To: <199811041840.NAA00424@mail1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <000401be087d$55f97aa0$3b8195cf@blanc>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>From Duncan Frissell:

: Protection of "victims" won't work if the new number is
: reported to the Big Three credit reporting bureaus.
...................................................

I just went to the bank I do business with this week to open a new account.
They wanted my social security number, (which they actually already have on
record), and during a search on her handy database, the Customer Assistance
clerk informed me that there was another person in Florida using the same
number.

I don't presently have a credit card, so I'm not worried about losing any cash
at this time.    The clerk gave me a form to send to ChexSystems for a consumer
report and advice to notify the Social Security dept about it.   I don't really
want to discuss it with them.  Think it would be to my benefit to just leave it
alone?   Probbly not.

   ..
Blanc




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 13:48:49 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone (fwd)
Message-ID: <5F152E6E8E6FD21195DF00104B2425AD02B241@yarrowbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




> They're bound by economics and nothing else, not even the 
> government cats.

Which is preferable IMHO, and I think most here agree (at least in this
context). As soon as you give some entity (e.g. government) the power of
force to regulate privacy, you create an entity that will abuse that force
and abuse privacy. Plus such regulations are a false security blanket that
diminishes demand for true privacy-creating tools (cryptography) -- not to
mention you current regime turns around and attacks those tools.

Being bound by the law of economics is generally a good thing.

	Matt




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 05:12:03 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199811042022.VAA22251@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



To: efc-talk@efc.ca
From: David Jones 
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 11:21:57 -0500 (EST)

Seems a bit strange that just when the private sector is recognizing
that smart cards are not yet ready for prime time, the Ontario government
is gearing up to launch a "universal smart card" for the delivery of
government services.  But don't worry, the government smart card will
be better than Mondex ... it will have biometric identification.  ;-)

   Ontario considering smart cards
      http://www.efc.ca/pages/media/national-post.30oct98.html

   Mondex pulls plug on Guelph pilot project
      http://www.efc.ca/pages/media/globe.01nov98.html

   Old-fashioned cash outsmarts smart card
      http://www.efc.ca/pages/media/national-post.01nov98a.html





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Blanc" 
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 13:48:26 +0800
To: 
Subject: Who Cares
Message-ID: <000601be087d$5cda57e0$3b8195cf@blanc>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




 When the politicians speak they always make statements which imply that they're
speaking to, and being heard by,  the whole nation.   I just read a notice that
less than 40% of eligible voters went to the polls.   Since the Republicans are
still in the majority, this means that less than one quarter of the voting
population supports Clinton as President.   And only slightly more than one
quarter support Republicans.   This would be meaningful to me, if I was making
policy:  what are all those other people doing?

   ..
Blanc





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 14:02:30 +0800
To: "'Robert Hettinga'" 
Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone (fwd)
Message-ID: <5F152E6E8E6FD21195DF00104B2425AD02B242@yarrowbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Robert Hettinga wrote:
> A government is just another economic actor. A very large 
> economic actor with lots of guns and a monopoly on force, 
> but an economic actor nonetheless.

No they are not, nor will they necessarily recognize the economic
consequences of their actions before they entirely self-destruct or mutate
only to do it again. History shows this.

I generally use the economic/political distinction as made by Franz
Oppenheimer, and furthered by Rothbard, Rand, etc. In that context they are
a political actor, not an economic one. I purposefully ignored the prospect
of corporations using coercive force to prevent privacy, it is rather
improbable and still preferable to government coercion -- but note they do
use coercive force today preventing privacy, but government is their
instrument of force.

Jim Choate wrote:
> You need to look around, the government has NO monopoly on force.

They have a *legal* monopoly on force (within a state). You do not generally
consider the black market in determining monopolistic conditions, and in
fact the existence of a black market in a segment generally points to a
coercive monopoly in the public one.

	Matt




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 14:04:53 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: TEMPEST laptops
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 8:06 AM -0800 11/4/98, Petro wrote:

>	What if, instead of trying to entirely prevent leakage, one did a
>combination of "redirecting" and "masking" emissions.
>
>	Keep in mind I am asking from a point of total ignorance.
>
>	To break the question down further, a tempest attack is limited by
>2 things, distance from the machine (IIRC, the "level" or "strength" of RF
>emissions drops by the square of the distance correct?) and (possibly) the
>presence of other sources of RF in about the same bands.
>
>	Assuming that the signal level drops by the square of the distance,
>then one is far more likely to get tempested from a van outside than an
>airplane overhead correct?  In that case, simply design one of Mr. May's
>brazed copper boxes so that it is open something similar to:
[diagram of semi-open box elided]

Radio waves scatter...they don't just travel in pure line of sight. And
even if they travelled only in line of sight, the reflections from inside
the box and then into the room and then off surfaces....

Microwave ovens work by having the waves bounce around inside a box. Any
significant hole or crack (up to roughly half the wavelength) would let the
waves out.

An open top box will not work.

>The other question is how hard, given a _specific_ machine would it be to
>create a "RF" jammer? Sort of an active defense versus the passive defense
>of a Tempest sheild. build a device that measures the RF coming off a
>machine, and rebroadcasts the opposite (i.e. the negation) of the signal?
>This should, or could "flatten" the signal making it useless.

Unlikely to prevent someone from figuring out what the real signal is. It's
very difficult, generally, to hide a signal with another signal. Noise
won't work, because noise can be filtered or autocorrelated out. A "spoof"
signal can be corrected for.

And we are talking about 100 dB sorts of suppression. Mere factors of a few
with fake signals and noise are meaningless on this scale.

--Tim May

Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash.
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: zËRö 
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 22:42:15 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: is it real?
Message-ID: <36413D1D.3C6@pacific.net.sg>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>>for your info, please.
>>
>>>>Just in case.......
>>>>......... basically.... don't install Windows 98 ..... since they 
>have
>>>>this "added" function.....  =)
>>>>
>>>> Microsoft slapped two more lawsuit against one teenager and one
>>>>retired worker for using pirated Windows 98 software.
>>>>
>>>>For your information on how Microsoft actually trace PIRATED /
>>>>COPIED / UNLICENSED Windows 98:
>>>>
>>>>Whenever you logon into the internet, during the verifying
>>>>password duration. Your ISP (Internet Service Provider
>>>>eg:SingNET,PacNET,CyberNET,SwiftNET) will download a
>>>>SUB-REGISTRY ENCRYPTED HEXADECIMAL (containing all your
>>>>PROGRAMS serial numbers installed into Win98!!) file from
>>>>your Windows 98 registry. Then they send this SUB-REGISTRY to
>>>>Microsoft for verification. And ONLY Microsoft knows how
>>>>to decode this encypted hexadecimal file.
>>>>
>>>>If Microsoft verified that the serial numbers are authentic,
>>>>then they WILL REGISTER THOSE NUMBERS FOR YOU
>>>>A-U-T-O-M-A-T-C-A-L-L-Y !!!
>>>>
>>>>And if Microsoft denied those serial numbers, then they will send
>>>>an E-Mail to the ISP you dialled into and your ISP will start
>>>>tracing everyone who logons to their systems. That's why during
>>>>sometime for no reason your internet started slowing down.
>>>>And if your ISP verified that the SUB-REGISTRY ENCYPTED HEXADECIMAL
>>>>file is yours, they will send your information over to Microsoft
>>>>Singapore. And there they will decide whether to take actions or not.
>>>>
>>>>There is already 54 cases in Singapore regarding uses of PIRATE
>>>>/ COPIED / UNLICENSED Windows 98.
>>>>
>>>>I do not wish to see any of my friends get into this million dollar
>>>>tangle from Bill Gates, not that I hate this guy, but it really
>>>>sucks when they made such anti-piracy move into the software itself
>>>>- thus forcing everyone to buy Microsoft original's Windows 98, if
>>>>not they'll slap you with a lawsuit.
>>>>
>>>>Forward this mail to as many people you know, and who knows
>>>>you may just save one of your friends from getting sued by Microsoft.
>>>>
>>>>




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Cutler 
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 15:09:07 +0800
To: cryptography@c2.net
Subject: Cryptography Study Group - Palo Alto
Message-ID: <199811050645.WAA10935@mustang.via.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




A Palo Alto-centered cryptography study group has been been formed.
Our first project is to read Schneier's "Applied Cryptography."  We
meet a couple times each week to go over assigned reading and to play
with ideas about cryptography.  While the current participants all
have a professional interest in the field, we are loosely organized.
Readings are decided at the previous meeting giving us the flexibility
to explore particular ideas in depth.

Please contact me if you would like to join us.

John Cutler
jcutler@via.net




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "James A. Donald" 
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 15:47:18 +0800
To: Bill Stewart 
Message-ID: <199811050725.XAA01933@proxy4.ba.best.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



    --
At 0144 PM 11/1/98 -0800, Bill Stewart wrote
> By the way, you don't want to hit the "view" button
> after checking this one - you'll get 
> Run-Time Error 3021 - No current Record
> and then Kong dies.

Thanks  I should release a fix on Monday the 9th.

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     z/IoeOpshxPsz77gDorN0rrSb3hSKRfq8BJoUrHV
     4MW1ljpG5hCWlOTNpmvtqe+qucj/X1317qNUJjGxf

-----------------------------------------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because 
of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this 
right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.


http://www.jim.com/jamesd/      James A. Donald




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 15:47:45 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: TEMPEST laptops (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199811050611.AAA10989@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 10:11 PM -0800 11/4/98, Jim Choate wrote:
>Forwarded message:
>
>> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 21:45:29 -0800
>> From: Tim May 
>> Subject: Re: TEMPEST laptops
>
>> Radio waves scatter...they don't just travel in pure line of sight. And
>> even if they travelled only in line of sight, the reflections from inside
>> the box and then into the room and then off surfaces....
>
>It depends on the frequency. Last time I checked a laser or a maser (both
>are radio waves strictly speaking) travel LOS. The scattering comes from
>beam divergence and incidental refractions and reflections from the
>molecules in the air and supported detritus.

Oh come on, let's not get into sophistry. And lasers are not considered to
be radio frequency devices by anyone I know of...visible, IR, and UV lasers
are all treated as _photon_ devices, "light."  (Yes, yes, I know about
particles vs. waves.)

>If the microwaves (for example) are transmitted parallel to the open side it
>might very well work just fine. It's going to depend on a variety of
>factors that will preclude such a blanket statement from being valid.

Nope, they'll still get out. The parallel mirror scenario.


>Most of the signals that are emitted by a computer are not in the 100dB
>dynamic range (@2x=3db that's a signal range of 1:33) , more likely 40-50db
>if that. For a TTL (5V) signal it barely covers 3dB (LOW is <2.5v and a
>high is >=4.75). There simply is no way in hell a signal with a 3dB range is
>going to emit a rf signal that is 100dB. There are other logic families with
>wider dynamic ranges (eg CMOS w/ 18V Vcc can be nearly 18V or approx. about
>12dB).

We're talking about signal strength of the emitted RF  being knocked down
80 or 100 dB  by the shielding. This is a common way of talking about the
effectiveness of a Faraday cage.

--Tim May

Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash.
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 13:58:08 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Who Cares (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811050539.XAA10683@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: "Blanc" 
> Subject: Who Cares
> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 21:22:56 -0800

>  When the politicians speak they always make statements which imply that they're
> speaking to, and being heard by,  the whole nation.   I just read a notice that
> less than 40% of eligible voters went to the polls.   Since the Republicans are
> still in the majority, this means that less than one quarter of the voting
> population supports Clinton as President.   And only slightly more than one
> quarter support Republicans.   This would be meaningful to me, if I was making
> policy:  what are all those other people doing?

If you're talking about the people who didn't vote, they're trying to keep
from going under. Probably working two jobs, keeping the kids in school and
out of trouble, saving for college, paying the house morgage off, etc. Who's
in office won't make a whit of difference to any of that. It's irrelevant.

If you're talking about the politicians, they're laughing their ass off on
the way to the bank to cash their tax-derived income.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 04:00:25 +0800
To: Narayan Raghu 
Subject: Re: new 448 bit key by Indian firm
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981104234056.008b6880@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 03:43 AM 11/3/98 +0530, Narayan Raghu wrote:
>            Indian firm unveils 448-bit encryption

448 bits sounds a lot like MD5-based encryption - perhaps Luby-Rackoff or MDC?
Or a homegrown system, doing successive MD5s or something?
MD5 is no longer the safest hash these days....


				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 14:02:31 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811050545.XAA10791@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: Matthew James Gering 
> Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone
> 	 (fwd)
> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 21:20:34 -0800 

> > They're bound by economics and nothing else, not even the 
> > government cats.
> 
> Which is preferable IMHO, and I think most here agree (at least in this
> context). As soon as you give some entity (e.g. government) the power of
> force to regulate privacy,

Woah there cowboy, just exactly how the hell do you jump from economics to
privacy...talk about a strawman.

> you create an entity that will abuse that force

Abuse is the nature of man, not economics, privacy, government systems, etc.
They're things, they have no desire and most definitely have no concept of
privacy, economics, duty, etc. A a person or persons are abused it's by
another person or persons.

> Plus such regulations are a false security blanket that
> diminishes demand for true privacy-creating tools (cryptography) -- not to
> mention you current regime turns around and attacks those tools.

It depends on the regulation and how it's applied. You simply can't
equitably apply the statement that all regulation is bad because it's equaly
clear that no regulation has its own pitfalls and abuses.

> Being bound by the law of economics is generally a good thing.

Yes, provided you have 'fair competition' which you can't in a free market.
Provided all companies and their management operate within some sort of
ethical guidelines, which they won't (and don't). And on and on.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 04:02:11 +0800
To: John Young 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981104234624.008b6880@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 11:09 AM 11/4/98 -0500, John Young wrote:
>Chase, Visa and Mastercard have closed down their
>smartcard trial on the Upper West Side of Manhattan, 
>the NYT reports today.
>It also says Mondex has closed its Swindon trial.

I don't know about Swindon's Mondex trial,
but Mondex in San Francisco was dumbly too annoying to use.
Wells Fargo was promoting it, Starbucks accepted it,
and both were around the corner from my office.
The _catch_ was that you couldn't just walk into a bank,
plunk down some dead presidents, and get a Mondex card.
Instead, you could walk into the bank, get a brochure,
use a phone there to call an 800 number, and they'll
mail it to you or something awkward like that.
It may be a mostly-bearer system instead of book entry,
but they're handling it like book-entry.  Lose, lose.


				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 14:18:21 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811050554.XAA10925@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: Matthew James Gering 
> Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone
> 	 (fwd)
> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 21:43:31 -0800 

> Robert Hettinga wrote:
> > A government is just another economic actor. A very large 
> > economic actor with lots of guns and a monopoly on force, 
> > but an economic actor nonetheless.
> 
> No they are not,

Yes, they are. Can you say 'taxes'? Can you say 'interstate commerce'?
Can you say 'mint money'? Can you say 'federal reserve'? Can you say 'FDIC'?

I thought so.

> nor will they necessarily recognize the economic
> consequences of their actions before they entirely self-destruct or mutate
> only to do it again. History shows this.

Really? What history?

> I generally use the economic/political distinction as made by Franz
> Oppenheimer, and furthered by Rothbard, Rand, etc. In that context they are
> a political actor, not an economic one.

False distinction. Politics is about control and power, and in human society
that breaks down to force and money.

> I purposefully ignored the prospect
> of corporations using coercive force to prevent privacy, it is rather

There you go again, confusing privacy with economics...

> improbable and still preferable to government coercion -- but note they do
> use coercive force today preventing privacy, but government is their
> instrument of force.

True, but that isn't a function of regulation per se only the particular
type of regulation that we have implimented. You're arguing from a specific
example and trying to extrapolate to a general rule and it don't fly.

> Jim Choate wrote:
> > You need to look around, the government has NO monopoly on force.
> 
> They have a *legal* monopoly on force (within a state).

No, they don't. It is perfectly legal for an individual to own a weapon.
There is also a clear distinction between the local police, your state
police, federal agents, military, etc. Lumping them all into one generic
category is a disservice and is unrealistic (especialy since they are often
in adversarial roles) if we really want to understand how our society works
and where we can take it.

> You do not generally
> consider the black market in determining monopolistic conditions, and in
> fact the existence of a black market in a segment generally points to a
> coercive monopoly in the public one.

No it doesn't. It points to the fact that individuals want to participate in
some activity that some other party doesn't want to occur. It does not imply
that the regulating party wants the potential income from those activities.

Further more, even in a free-market there will exist black markets. It's
always cheaper to buy stolen merchandise than legitimately purchased
merchandise. The aspect of a free-market is that there is no consequence
from such actions (unless you want to admit to allowing corporations to have
their own hit squads). Again, a function of human psychology and not
economics or political systems.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 14:33:28 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: TEMPEST laptops (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811050611.AAA10989@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 21:45:29 -0800
> From: Tim May 
> Subject: Re: TEMPEST laptops

> Radio waves scatter...they don't just travel in pure line of sight. And
> even if they travelled only in line of sight, the reflections from inside
> the box and then into the room and then off surfaces....

It depends on the frequency. Last time I checked a laser or a maser (both
are radio waves strictly speaking) travel LOS. The scattering comes from
beam divergence and incidental refractions and reflections from the
molecules in the air and supported detritus.

> Microwave ovens work by having the waves bounce around inside a box. Any
> significant hole or crack (up to roughly half the wavelength) would let the
> waves out.

Depends on the size of the hole and location. In most microwave ovens there
are definite dead-spots (corners and the exact center of the area are
notorius).

> An open top box will not work.

If the microwaves (for example) are transmitted parallel to the open side it
might very well work just fine. It's going to depend on a variety of
factors that will preclude such a blanket statement from being valid.

> Unlikely to prevent someone from figuring out what the real signal is. It's
> very difficult, generally, to hide a signal with another signal. Noise
> won't work, because noise can be filtered or autocorrelated out. A "spoof"
> signal can be corrected for.

For these to work there must be a time-correlated aspect to the signal that
doesn't appear in the noise. If you mask the signal with the same sort of
time correlated cover (eg phase shifting) it also might work.

> And we are talking about 100 dB sorts of suppression. Mere factors of a few
> with fake signals and noise are meaningless on this scale.

The absolute magnitude isn't really important.

Most of the signals that are emitted by a computer are not in the 100dB
dynamic range (@2x=3db that's a signal range of 1:33) , more likely 40-50db
if that. For a TTL (5V) signal it barely covers 3dB (LOW is <2.5v and a
high is >=4.75). There simply is no way in hell a signal with a 3dB range is
going to emit a rf signal that is 100dB. There are other logic families with
wider dynamic ranges (eg CMOS w/ 18V Vcc can be nearly 18V or approx. about
12dB).


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 18:13:08 +0800
To: Ken Williams 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981105012448.0094c240@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 04:37 PM 11/5/98 -0500, Ken Williams wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
>Kenneth A. Minihan and George J. Tenet Elected to America Online, Inc.
>Board of Directors
>New Board Members Hail From NSA and CIA 

Yee-hah!!!    Happy Guy Fawkes Day!!!


				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 16:37:30 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: "Practical Joke"
Message-ID: <199811050812.DAA02571@panix7.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>Pssst...
>
>When John Glenn returns from space, everyone dress in ape suits.
>
>Pass it on.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 22:04:19 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: TEMPEST laptops (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811051325.HAA11660@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 23:19:17 -0800
> From: Tim May 
> Subject: Re: TEMPEST laptops (fwd)

> >It depends on the frequency. Last time I checked a laser or a maser (both
> >are radio waves strictly speaking) travel LOS. The scattering comes from
> >beam divergence and incidental refractions and reflections from the
> >molecules in the air and supported detritus.
> 
> Oh come on, let's not get into sophistry. And lasers are not considered to
> be radio frequency devices by anyone I know of...visible, IR, and UV lasers
> are all treated as _photon_ devices, "light."  (Yes, yes, I know about
> particles vs. waves.)

p-v-w is irrelevent.

No Tim, it's photons as the intermediate vector boson for EM radiation.
*ALL* physicist consider light to be hi-freq radio waves, or radio waves to
be low-freq light. Hell, strictly speaking standing in the middle of a dark
room waving a bar magnet back and forth is a very low freq. flash light.

And you have a physics degree......

> Nope, they'll still get out. The parallel mirror scenario.

Irrelevant.

Last time I checked my microwave was 8 corner reflectors. That says that
ultimately the ray goes back along the way it came with a shift in beam axis.

How a microwave works is that up in one corner is a small grating. Behind
that grating is a magnetron/klystron/etc. tube. That tube sends a beam out
through that little grating. The axis of the tube is slightly mis-aligned
,otherwise the beam would come back into the tube and burn it out - also why
you don't put metal things in there, it disrupts the reflection pattern. As
a consequence of this design the corners and the exact center of the cavity
don't get enough microwave radiation to do much of anything with. If you
were to actualy map the microwaves you'd see beams bouncing back and forth
and not continous coverage. There are actualy spots in every microwave oven
cavity that get zero radiation. Anything put in there cooks as a function of
the water in its neighbor heating up and transfered by the standard
thermodynamic (which is also EM by the way) mechanism.

Test it yourself.

> We're talking about signal strength of the emitted RF  being knocked down
> 80 or 100 dB  by the shielding. This is a common way of talking about the
> effectiveness of a Faraday cage.

True, the point I'm trying to make to you folks is that it *ISN'T* the
absolute level of the signal that you are necessarily concerned with but
rather the dynamic range in that signal. Simply knowing there's a 3mV signal
out there won't do you a damn bit of good unless you have enough signal range
to decode the contents. In actuality you could be emitting GW's of signal and
if there was only say 1uV of signal range you'd never get anything off it.

It just occured to me that one way to weaken TEMPEST is to mask the signals
(not sure exactly how) that are emitted by encrypting (ie whitening) the
signal when it's on exposed/radiating buss or connector.



    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 22:08:53 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Cryptography Study Group - Palo Alto (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811051335.HAA11763@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 22:45:42 -0800
> From: John Cutler 
> Subject: Cryptography Study Group - Palo Alto

> A Palo Alto-centered cryptography study group has been been formed.
> Our first project is to read Schneier's "Applied Cryptography."  We
> meet a couple times each week to go over assigned reading and to play
> with ideas about cryptography.  While the current participants all
> have a professional interest in the field, we are loosely organized.
> Readings are decided at the previous meeting giving us the flexibility
> to explore particular ideas in depth.
> 
> Please contact me if you would like to join us.

This is a GREAT! idea John.

If you don't object, and since Austin Cypherpunks are dead dead dead, I
believe I'll start something similar.

I think the approach I'll use is a bit different in that I'm going to ask
participants to read say the first chapter and get together over some period
and actualy write a program (probably in Perl) that impliments the topic(s)
under discussion. If it were to meet say every other week for two hours they
should be able to go through a chapter every couple of months or so.

Now I've got to find a place suitable....:)


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 21:21:32 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Netscape inside scoop on "Smart Browsing"
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


X-Authentication-Warning: tarnhelm.blu.org: majordom set sender to
owner-isig@blu.org using -f
From: rivalcs@ma.ultranet.com
To: 
Subject: Netscape inside scoop on "Smart Browsing"
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 06:00:21 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3
Importance: Normal
Sender: owner-isig@blu.org
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: isig@blu.org

> * IS SMART BROWSING REALLY SO SMART?
> (contributed by Mark Joseph Edwards, http://www.ntsecurity.net)
> Many of you are aware of Netscape's new versions of its Navigator Web
> browser. But do you also know that, starting with version 4.06, the
> product's Smart Browsing feature can report to Netscape every Web page
> you visit, including addresses to private sites on your internal
> network? And are you aware that when you download a secure version of
> Netscape's browser, the process places a cookie on your system that can
> match your name and address to your Web surfing habits? Matt Curtin,
> Gary Ellison, and Doug Monroe of Interhack published a report that
> outlines the details. Netscape's What's Related? browser feature (a
> technology provided by Alexa Internet) seems to be the cause of this
> potential invasion of privacy. For those who don't know, the What's
> Related? feature delivers a list of URLs associated with the Web page
> you're visiting. The feature does this by automatically appending the
> URL of the page you're visiting to the end of another URL and sending
> it to a server at Netscape. For example, if you visit my Web site
> (http://www.ntsecurity.net), the URL that Netscape receives is
> http://www-rl4.netscape.com/wtgn?www.ntsecurity.net. And when Netscape
> uses this URL to return a list of URLs for related sites, the URLs
> aren't directly linked-they go through Netscape, telling Netscape which
> site, if any, you chose from the list. The related URLs link to
> http://info.netscape.com, which forwards you to the intended
> destination. The link URLs look like this:
> http://info.netscape.com/fwd/rl/http://www.ntshop.net:80/.
>   The report states that the group isn't accusing anyone of malice, and
> clearly points out that even the best-intended systems can have
> undesirable consequences. The real bone to pick here is the lack of
> disclosure to potential users of the Smart Browsing technology, and
> lack of a statement about the intended storage and use of private
> browsing information collected from unsuspecting Netscape users.
> According to the report, the feature enables by default, and no
> documentation on the feature existed until the report became public. I
> don't know about you, but if I bought a new Corvette from General
> Motors (GM), and the Corvette reported to GM every place I went, I'd
> expect GM to tell me up front. Otherwise, I'd feel deceived and taken
> advantage of. But then again, maybe I'm being paranoid when I assume
> that private actions should remain private.
>   http://www.interhack.net/pubs/whatsrelated/
>   http://home.netscape.com/escapes/related/faq.html
>

Rick Desautels
Sr. Systems Engineer
Rival Computer Solutions
rivalcs@ma.ultranet.com


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To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to majordomo@blu.org
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--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 23:32:11 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: How to test *your* microwave oven distribution pattern.
Message-ID: <199811051447.IAA12209@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Here's a simple way to test the bounce-pattern of your micro-wave oven:

 -	Go to your local hobby store and buy some small balsa or pine
        sheeting, stringers (4x), and glue (non-water based). You'll
        also need several small open top containers (like a shot glass
        but smaller for best effect) and a marker.

 -	Cut the stringers to the vertical height of your oven cavity.

 -	Cut the sheeting into 1in. sq. pieces.

 -	Mark the stringers evenly such that there is enough room to glue
        the sheeting between the stringers, forming a multi-leveled tower.

 -	On each level place your container with a suitable amount of
	water (fill it almost to the brim).

 -	Place the tower w/ it's containers in one of the corners. Mark
        a line around the base so you know where you been.

 -      Start your microwave up (adjust time as needed, say start with
        30s) and note the temperature of each container after the time.
	Note that putting your thermometer in there will cool it slightly
        and you'll also need to have the same number of runs and levels so
        so each level can be measured immediately after opening the door.
 	If you have access to an optical pyrometer you could potentialy
        measure them all.

 -	Once you've measured it here, move it over to be adjacent to the
	lines you drew above, outline the base again and repeat as needed.

 -	Run your regression and your done, tadah.

Some glasses will be hot, others won't. Trace the path of the beam out of
the magnetron and you'll get a good idea of what your oven is really doing.

Whether the cavity is stricly a corner reflector (ie corners are square) or
is trapezoidal (slightly off square to help disperse the bounce pattern not
the beam) is irrelevant to the actual holes in the pattern, they will be
there.

I'll mention but not go into the shadowing effect of objects placed in the
cavity and the requirement for even cooking means that they have to be
rotated for even dispersal of the cooking effect. Another indication that
the beam doesn't disperse as widely or quickly as some claim.

On another topic about holes and escaping microwaves, if the holes are the
right size (which the screen in the glass in the front of your oven is)
they will preferentialy absorb the microwave, if it's correctly grounded
very little of the radiation will escape (as you can measure with a standard
microwave oven leak detector).

Now, let's talk about ways to build a laptop that will reduce the emissed
radiation to a minimum.

First, put all the computing guts into a small box that is well grounded
(running on a battery will pretty much screw you here since it ain't
grounded unless you drive a stake into the ground). Then make sure that any
openings or gaps are in the front edge or on the bottem pointed down. There
should be no breaks in the sides, rear, or top. Make sure the floppy, CD,
hard drive are placed in the front of the laptop container adjacent to the
metal box above and make sure any openings in them point out. The reason you
want the openings in the front edge is that  your body will make a
very good sheild to that hi-energy rf that folks want to tap. The openings on
the bottem will direct it to the ground where where they are absorbed (why they
call it a ground-plane). Make sure that all cabling from the peripherals to
the computing box are shielded (remember, ground the shield at one end
only). The seam or hinge between the display and the case should be shielded
with standard copper fingers. The cabling should also be well shielded. Make
sure there is a grounded screen covering the front of the LCD (and for gods
sake don't ever use a plasma display). The exterior case should be metal
(why I love my Tadpole 3XP and IBM N40). All openings for batteries and such
should be screwed down and not simply retained by a latch of some sort. The
*ONLY* way to power the laptop should be by battery. There should be no
provision to power it off the ac mains (this is going to be inconvenient
since you'll need to carry extra batteries, an external charger for them,
and the screw drivers and such to change them - no simply and easy pop-outs
here).

As to the display, the ideal display would be a dual-display HMD that was
also sheilded. This is based on the assumption that if your data is so
sensitive that you don't want people snarking it out of the air you probably
don't want them reading it over your shoulder (up close or through a
tele-photo).

If you do decide to stake your laptop as refered above there are a few
things to know....

 -	Make sure the stake is in suitable ground without lots of quartz
        and other similar peizo-electric materials.

 -	The stake should extend at least 3ft. into the ground.

 -	When the stake is driven in, the ground should be thoroughly wetted
        which usualy means quite a bit of water (30 gals or so should do
        it), if possible wet it over a 24 hour period prior to staking.

 -	Make sure the stake and the cable leading to the laptop are copper
        (or silver if you're rich)

 -	You don't want to be close to phone, power, and other sorts of
        underground utilities.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Warren E. Agin" 
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 23:10:44 +0800
To: rah@shipwright.com>
Subject: Re: DigiCash Inc. to File Reorganization, Seeks Partners to Driv
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199811051422.OAA10028@mail-out-4.tiac.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Finally, some real meat for a bankruptcy/technology lawyer.  I've 
been predicting for some time now that technology 
companies will start to use the bankruptcy process as the industry 
starts to shake out.  The PR aside, these filings are generally 
prompted by one or more strata of large debt obligations or 
convertable securities, and the company's inability to continue to 
make required payments.  What DigiCash will probably do is 
restructure its existing debt structures while seeking partners to 
obtain additional cash flows needed to continue operations.

I'll be interested to see how it all works out.

-Warren Agin
Boston, Massachusetts
> FYI...
> 
> DigiCash Inc. to File Reorganization, Seeks Partners to Drive eCash Forward
> 
> PALO ALTO, CALIF.--November 4, 1998
> 
> DigiCash Inc. has announced that it is entering into a Chapter 11
> reorganization to allow it to pursue strategic alternatives for its
> electronic cash ("eCash" T) products and the associated intellectual assets
> pioneered by DigiCash.
> 
___________________________________________________

               Warren E. Agin
         Law Offices of Warren E. Agin
       76 Canal Street, Boston MA 02114
       (617)227-3201  (f)(617) 227-6365
                www.agin.com
___________________________________________________




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 23:11:15 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Y2K prompts many to prepare, 6-month delays now common
Message-ID: <199811051431.GAA21966@smtp.well.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>X-Sender: declan@mail.well.com
>X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 
>Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 08:24:55 -0500
>To: politech@vorlon.mit.edu
>From: Declan McCullagh 
>Subject: FC: Y2K prompts many to prepare, 6-month delays now common
>Sender: owner-politech@vorlon.mit.edu
>Reply-To: declan@well.com
>X-Loop: politech@vorlon.mit.edu
>X-URL: Politech is at http://www.well.com/~declan/politech/
>
>[I think this is important news: Y2K fear has grown faster than many of us
>expected it would. Companies tell me that unless you place your order by
>early next year, you'll receive it after 1-1-00. --Declan]
>
>
>http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/16035.html
>
>            Companies selling bulk food,
>            generators, and solar energy systems
>            report backlogs of up to six months. The
>            reason: nationwide hand-wringing over
>            the millennium bug. By Declan McCullagh. 
> 
>
>
>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>POLITECH -- the moderated mailing list of politics and technology
>To subscribe: send a message to majordomo@vorlon.mit.edu with this text:
>subscribe politech
>More information is at http://www.well.com/~declan/politech/
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 02:03:17 +0800
To: ravage@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: Re: TEMPEST laptops (fwd)
Message-ID: <3641E026.918@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim,

***
True, the point I'm trying to make to you folks is that it *ISN'T* the
absolute level of the signal that you are necessarily concerned with but
rather the dynamic range in that signal. Simply knowing there's a 3mV
signal
out there won't do you a damn bit of good unless you have enough signal
range
to decode the contents. In actuality you could be emitting GW's of
signal and
if there was only say 1uV of signal range you'd never get anything off
it.
***

The distinction you are trying to express is that not all signals have
equal information content and that it is the levels of the high-content
ones that matter. Fine, but shielding is indiscriminate so shield away.
And run your Tesla coil and some Ramones music to increase the ambient
noise while you're doing sensitive computing.

BTW - Aren't most receivers sensitive to RF field strengths in the 1
uV/m range? 
With cryogenically cooled front ends the nV/m range is probably usable.
Look for MIB carrying Dewars in your neighborhood! 
How cold do Peltier junctions get? 
Probably good enough for a sidewinder or a low-noise rcvr.

Mike

Gabba-gabba hey!




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 23:40:23 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: US Cyberthreat Policy
Message-ID: <199811051449.JAA12327@camel8.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



The USIA E-journal, Foreign Policy Agenda, for November
is titled "Cyberthreat: Protecting US Information Networks."
It has articles by the head of NSA, DoD's Hamre, CIAO's Hunker,
Y2K Office's Koskinen, Senator Kyl, and reps from Microsoft, 
IBM and others:

  http://www.usia.gov/journals/itps/1198/ijpe/toc.htm

Martin Libicki of RAND criticizes the administration's crypto
policy for hindering widespread information protection:

   http://jya.com/ml110498.htm






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Warren E. Agin" 
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 23:39:50 +0800
To: bankrlaw@polecat.law.indiana.edu
Subject: Re: DigiCash Inc. to File Reorganization, Seeks Partners to Driv
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199811051508.PAA16694@mail-out-4.tiac.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



For those who are really interested, the DigiCash Incorporated 
Chapter 11 case was filed in the Northern District of California.  
The case number is 98-58986.
___________________________________________________

               Warren E. Agin
         Law Offices of Warren E. Agin
       76 Canal Street, Boston MA 02114
       (617)227-3201  (f)(617) 227-6365
                www.agin.com
___________________________________________________




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Warren E. Agin" 
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 23:40:12 +0800
To: bankrlaw@polecat.law.indiana.edu
Subject: (Fwd) Re: DigiCash Inc. to File Reorganization, Seeks Partners
Message-ID: <199811051508.PAA16689@mail-out-4.tiac.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




For those who are really interested, the DigiCash Incorporated 
Chapter 11 case was filed in the Northern District of California.  
The case number is 98-58986.

-Warren Agin
___________________________________________________

               Warren E. Agin
         Law Offices of Warren E. Agin
       76 Canal Street, Boston MA 02114
       (617)227-3201  (f)(617) 227-6365
                www.agin.com
___________________________________________________




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 01:33:39 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone(fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199811042301.RAA09484@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 6:01 PM -0500 11/4/98, Jim Choate wrote:
>Forwarded message:
>
>> From: Matthew James Gering 
>> Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone
>> 	 Alternative
>> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 14:29:47 -0800
>
>> Petro wrote:
>> > However, Privacy + Freedom == Anarchy, or close enough to be
>> > indistinguishable.
>
>This is silly.

	And you're a fool, but I can be serious.

	Try reading what I said, and (I know this is difficult for you)
THINK ABOUT IT.

	Anarchy is usually defined as the absense of government. What
exactly makes up a "government", what are it's defining characteristics?

	Simply a device for reallocating wealth?--Insufficient, there are
lots of mechanisms for that.

	A body that lays down standards and rules of conduct?--Sounds like
a church or industry consortium to me.

	A heirarchical (sp?) structure that uses fear, propaganda and force
to reallocate wealth, enforce standards and rules of conduct, and other
things at whim (for varying values of "whim", from the "whim" of a
dictator, to the "whim" of the "body politic").

	Now, THAT is a government. Yes, some of what it enforces is
probably a good idea (i.e. everyone driving on the same side of the road,
&etc) some if it is kinda silly (don't smoke dope, or you're going to jail
(Here, have a beer)), and some of it is downright stupid and shortsighted
(encryption policy, not drinking beer out of a bucket on the sidewalk).

	Anarchy is not having to be effected by that, being "free" to
follow what one thinks is right. How one gets to that state is not really
relevent. My statement above simply lays out the position having Privacy
(for large enough values of privacy to be meaningful) and Freedom (for
large enough values of Freedom to be meaningful) one is effectively in an
anarchistic state. That is what "close enough to be meaningful" meant.

	Privacy is (at least it's my understanding) the ability to hide or
mask   information in such a way that only people you wish to have access
to it do.

	There are varying degrees of Privacy, from "Well, at least they
don't analyize what's in my feeces, even if they do watch me take it" to
being able to completely hide any information at all from anyone.

	Freedom is the ability to make choices, and exercise those choices.

	Just like privacy, there are varying degrees of freedom, from the
convict who can chose wheter he/she wants to eat that slop or go hungry, to
the president of the US who can (apparently) bomb people with impunity, lie
under oath & etc.

	When the amount of freedom and privacy is high enough, it is
indistinguishable from anarchy. No one, wheter part of some heirarchial
structure or not can force you to do certain things, or to live a certain
way, or to pay a given percentage of your time (labor, money, life) to them
for "services" of dubious value.

	Now, I realize that if I were just speaking to Jim, this would be a
waste of time, because he consistently fails to read entire paragraphs,
misunderstands simple terms, and doesn't always manage to connect dependent
clauses, but there may be some out there who could provide a reasonable
critique of what I am saying, and may even be able to give me some food for
thought.

>> for privacy. In fact there is good claim that privacy will not exist in
>> anarchy except by those that decide to use the tools and methods to achieve

	Privacy doesn't exist anywhere unless one chooses to use the tools
and methods to acheive it.

	If I don't want privacy, or if it isn't of value to me, I shouldn't
have to be bound by it. If I do want it, I should be able take steps
(analagous to putting up curtains on a bay-window) to secure it.

	Governments cannot provide large values of privacy, it's not how
they work. They can limit exposure, but that is more of a false privacy
than real privacy.

--
"To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a
jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a
gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather naďve, and certainly
unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust"
http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html

Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro@playboy.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 01:30:16 +0800
To: 
Subject: RE: Quick, Dear -- Beat Me
In-Reply-To: <199811041840.NAA00424@mail1.panix.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 12:08 AM -0500 11/5/98, Blanc wrote:
>From Duncan Frissell:
>
>: Protection of "victims" won't work if the new number is
>: reported to the Big Three credit reporting bureaus.
>...................................................
>
>I just went to the bank I do business with this week to open a new account.
>They wanted my social security number, (which they actually already have on
>record), and during a search on her handy database, the Customer Assistance
>clerk informed me that there was another person in Florida using the same
>number.
>
>I don't presently have a credit card, so I'm not worried about losing any cash
>at this time.    The clerk gave me a form to send to ChexSystems for a
>consumer
>report and advice to notify the Social Security dept about it.   I don't
>really
>want to discuss it with them.  Think it would be to my benefit to just
>leave it
>alone?   Probbly not.

	If they are using your name as well, they could be damaging your
credit rating.
--
"To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a
jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a
gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather naďve, and certainly
unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust"
http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html

Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro@playboy.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 01:33:06 +0800
To: 
Subject: Re: Who Cares
In-Reply-To: <000601be087d$5cda57e0$3b8195cf@blanc>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 12:22 AM -0500 11/5/98, Blanc wrote:
> When the politicians speak they always make statements which imply that
>they're
>speaking to, and being heard by,  the whole nation.   I just read a notice
>that
>less than 40% of eligible voters went to the polls.   Since the
>Republicans are
>still in the majority, this means that less than one quarter of the voting
>population supports Clinton as President.   And only slightly more than one
>quarter support Republicans.   This would be meaningful to me, if I was making
>policy:  what are all those other people doing?

	The fact that it is meaningful to you means you will never (as long
as it is meaningful to you) get anywhere as a politician, as you still
actively beleive that a politican is there to do the will of the people.

	This can be demonstrated to be a false assumption.
--
"To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a
jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a
gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather naďve, and certainly
unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust"
http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html

Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro@playboy.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 01:40:44 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 12:39 AM -0500 11/5/98, Jim Choate wrote:

>If you're talking about the people who didn't vote, they're trying to keep
>from going under. Probably working two jobs, keeping the kids in school and
>out of trouble, saving for college, paying the house morgage off, etc. Who's
>in office won't make a whit of difference to any of that. It's irrelevant.

	That's crap.

	While I won't deny that some of the people who don't vote are in
the position you claim they are, their not voting has nothing to do with
their economic position, it has to do with the facts that:

	1) This is a mid-term election. Since it isn't a presidential
election, fewer really care to research the issues (which are fewer).

	2) We are currently in decent economic times, and as Terry Pratchet
noted on Men At Arms, (paraphrasing here) Most people don't really care
about democrazy, Equal Rights, or any of that, they just want tomorrow to
be exactly like today. So, as long as things are Fair to good (or great),
there won't be a lot of people intersted in voting, unless things look like
they are going to make a radical change, which leads us to the 3 big reason:

	3) As Jimmy notes, there usually isn't much of a difference between
one canidate and the other (outside of the Natural Law types), and those
canidates who _are_ different (Libertarians, Socialists &etc. ("reform"
types don't count, they really are for making tomorrow just like yesterday
& today, only they ADMIT it for the most part)) either don't get enough
votes to challenge the status quo, or if there is an issue that will
challenge the status quo, the number of voters tends to increase (to
varying degrees).
--
"To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a
jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a
gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather naďve, and certainly
unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust"
http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html

Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro@playboy.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 01:33:45 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Text: Gore Announces New SS# Effort for Victims of Domestic  Violence
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Delivered-To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
X-Sender: believer@telepath.com
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 09:31:32 -0600
To: believer@telepath.com
From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Text: Gore Announces New SS# Effort for Victims of Domestic
  Violence
Mime-Version: 1.0
Sender: owner-ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
Precedence: list
Reply-To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  USIA
http://www.usia.gov/current/news/latest/98110403.wlt.html?/products/washfile
/newsitem.shtml

04 November 1998

TEXT: GORE ANNOUNCES EFFORT FOR VICTIMS OF DOMESTIC
VIOLENCE

(SS numbers to be changed to help victims escape abusers) (630)

Washington -- Vice President Al Gore announced November 4 a new policy
to allow victims of domestic violence to change their Social Security
number.

"Today, our message to the victims of these hateful crimes is this: we
will offer you the protection you need to regain your safety and
rebuild your life. You have suffered enough without having to fight
for the protections you need to start a new life for yourself and your
children," Gore said, according to a press release from his office.

The vice president also mentioned a new booklet, "Protecting Victims
of Domestic Violence: A Law Enforcement Officer's Guide to Enforcing
Orders of Protection Nationwide," that outlines the meaning of the
Violence Against Women Act's requirement to give full faith and credit
orders of protection for victims of domestic violence.

Following is the text of the release:

(Begin text)

November  4, 1998

THE WHITE HOUSE
Office of the Vice President
For Immediate Release
Wednesday, November 4, 1998

VICE PRESIDENT GORE ANNOUNCES NEW POLICY TO ALLOW VICTIMS OF DOMESTIC
VIOLENCE TO CHANGE THEIR SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER

Washington, DC -- Vice President Gore announced today a new effort to
help victims of domestic violence escape their abusers -- a federal
policy that will make it easier for victims to change their social
security numbers.

"Today, our message to the victims of these hateful crimes is this: we
will offer you the protection you need to regain your safety and
rebuild your life," Vice President Gore said. "You have suffered
enough without having to fight for the protections you need to start a
new life for yourself and your children."

For the first time, victims of domestic violence will be able to get a
new Social Security number simply by providing written affirmation of
their domestic abuse from a third party, such as a local shelter,
treating physician, or law enforcement official.

The Social Security Administration's (SSA) employees in field offices
nationwide will work closely with local domestic violence shelters,
the police, the courts, treating physicians, medical facilities, and
psychologists to help victims of domestic violence get the
documentation necessary to secure a new Social Security number.

Previously, the SSA required victims to provide proof that their
abuser had misused their Social Security number. For victims of
domestic violence, providing this kind of proof was extremely
difficult -- only victims who were severely abused or who were in
danger of losing their lives were allowed to change their Social
Security number.

To improve its services to victims of domestic violence, the SSA will
post on its web site the steps a victim needs to take to change their
Social Security number and provide important referral information.

The Vice President also announced a Presidential directive for the
Office of Personnel Management to prepare a resource guide that will:
(1) assist victims of domestic violence by providing up-to-date
information about available resources and outline strategies to ensure
safety; and (2) help those who know anyone who is being abused to
prevent and respond to the situation. This guide will list private as
well as public resources such as counseling, law enforcement, federal
workplace leave policies, and substance abuse programs.

In addition, he highlighted a new booklet, "Protecting Victims of
Domestic Violence: A Law Enforcement Officer's Guide to Enforcing
Orders of Protection Nationwide," that outlines the meaning of the
Violence Against Women Act's requirement to give full faith and credit
orders of protection for victims of domestic violence. This booklet
was written by the International Association of Chiefs of Police with
a grant from the Justice Department. It will be disseminated to law
enforcement officers nationwide to teach them how to enforce
protection orders.

(End text)
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------


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--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 04:10:47 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: Re: How to test *your* microwave oven distribution pattern.
Message-ID: <3641FFB1.75BB@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim,

you said...
*****
If you do decide to stake your laptop as refered above there are a few
things to know....

 -      Make sure the stake is in suitable ground without lots of quartz
        and other similar peizo-electric materials.

 -      The stake should extend at least 3ft. into the ground.

 -      When the stake is driven in, the ground should be thoroughly
wetted
        which usualy means quite a bit of water (30 gals or so should do
        it), if possible wet it over a 24 hour period prior to staking.

 -      Make sure the stake and the cable leading to the laptop are
copper
        (or silver if you're rich)

 -      You don't want to be close to phone, power, and other sorts of
        underground utilities.
****

Please explain to me why it matters that the box be grounded!

Radiated energy from chips and traces is independent of your mongo
ground strap to the mother ship. All the strap does is alter the DC
potential. Shield your box well but design out the leg irons and the
geological requirements.

Mike




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 02:43:03 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 1:11 AM -0500 11/5/98, Jim Choate wrote:
>Forwarded message:
>> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 21:45:29 -0800
>> From: Tim May 
>> Subject: Re: TEMPEST laptops
>
>> Radio waves scatter...they don't just travel in pure line of sight. And
>> even if they travelled only in line of sight, the reflections from inside
>> the box and then into the room and then off surfaces....
>
>It depends on the frequency. Last time I checked a laser or a maser (both
>are radio waves strictly speaking) travel LOS. The scattering comes from
>beam divergence and incidental refractions and reflections from the
>molecules in the air and supported detritus.

	And both Lasers and Masers scatter under certain conditions. If you
can see the laser, it is scattering a bit of [energy light photons]

	That is what Mr. May is talking about.

	I was under the (apparently false) impression that things like
animal bodies, and ordinary building materials (like wood, Lathe &
plaster/drywall) wouldn't stop or significantly bounce the beams back the
way you didn't want them to go.

	I was thinking more of controling the direction of the RF, rather
than trying to completely supress it.

	It doesn't appear that will work.

>> Microwave ovens work by having the waves bounce around inside a box. Any
>> significant hole or crack (up to roughly half the wavelength) would let the
>> waves out.
>
>Depends on the size of the hole and location. In most microwave ovens there
>are definite dead-spots (corners and the exact center of the area are
>notorius).

	We're not cooking Hotdogs here, and we aren't using (for the most
part) microwaves. Yes, you can heat a hotdog on a PII, but that is more
from heat radiation than RF.

	Microwave ovens also leak RF.
--
"To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a
jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a
gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather naďve, and certainly
unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust"
http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html

Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro@playboy.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 02:37:36 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: IP: Text: Gore Announces New SS# Effort for Victims ofDomestic    Violence
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 11:40 AM -0500 11/5/98, Robert Hettinga wrote:

>"Today, our message to the victims of these hateful crimes is this: we
>will offer you the protection you need to regain your safety and
>rebuild your life. You have suffered enough without having to fight
>for the protections you need to start a new life for yourself and your
>children," Gore said, according to a press release from his office.

	Give them a Military Surplus .45 and teach them to shoot straight.
Much cheaper in the long run as it will either eliminate the abuse up
front, or both the abuse and the abuser.

>The vice president also mentioned a new booklet, "Protecting Victims
>of Domestic Violence: A Law Enforcement Officer's Guide to Enforcing
>Orders of Protection Nationwide," that outlines the meaning of the
>Violence Against Women Act's requirement to give full faith and credit
>orders of protection for victims of domestic violence.

	Isn't there some law that prohibits discrimination because of gender?

>For the first time, victims of domestic violence will be able to get a
>new Social Security number simply by providing written affirmation of
>their domestic abuse from a third party, such as a local shelter,
>treating physician, or law enforcement official.

	This shouldn't be too tough.

>The Social Security Administration's (SSA) employees in field offices
>nationwide will work closely with local domestic violence shelters,
>the police, the courts, treating physicians, medical facilities, and
>psychologists to help victims of domestic violence get the
>documentation necessary to secure a new Social Security number.

	Who wants to bet that soon they will talk about reducing or denying
benefits for "abusers".

--
"To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a
jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a
gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather naďve, and certainly
unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust"
http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html

Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro@playboy.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 02:02:19 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Microsoft Statement
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


X-Authentication-Warning: www.ispo.cec.be: majordom set sender to
owner-e-commerc@www.ispo.cec.be using -f
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 09:16:56 -0500
From: Freddie Dawkins 
Subject: Microsoft Statement
To: CEC E-commerce list 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Sender: owner-e-commerc@www.ispo.cec.be
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: Freddie Dawkins 

All here -
I thought you might like to see this. It was published at the ICX London
conference on October 19.
Rgds
Freddie Dawkins
ICX - Building Trust in E-commerce
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Statement of Microsoft on UK Department of Trade and Industry
Proposals for Encryption on Digital Signatures

October 1998

Microsoft welcomes this opportunity to respond to recent DTI proposals on
encryption and digital signatures.  As a leading developer of business
software applications, on-line tools and operating systems, Microsoft
strongly supports the growth of electronic commerce in Europe.

1. UK legislation should eliminate all key escrow and key recovery
requirements.

The UK should not make the use of encryption subject to mandatory key
escrow.  The DTI's Secure Electronic Commerce Statement of April 1998
contemplates authorising law enforcement to obtain access to private
encryption keys on request. This could effectively require users or
encryption service providers to "escrow" their private keys, which would
depart from the Statement's rejection of mandatory key escrow and make the
use of encryption more costly and burdensome.  Many users would also view
the obligation to store copies of their private keys as compromising the
security of their on-line messages, thus deterring them from fully
exploiting electronic commerce.

Mandatory key escrow does not serve any legitimate law enforcement goals.
Key escrow serves no legitimate law enforcement goals because criminals and
terrorists are unlikely to store their private keys or provide them to
police on request.  Law enforcement's needs in this area could be fully met
by requiring users to produce the plain text of any message to which police
require access.

2. The proposed legislation should extend legal recognition to all digital
signatures.

Legal recognition should extend to all electronic signatures, not just
those issued by licensed certification authorities (CAs).  The secure
Electronic Commerce Statement would limit legal recognition to certificates
issued by licensed CAs.  Because virtually all users will want to rely on
the legal validity of their electronic signatures, this would effectively
require the use of licensed CAs.  Such a rule would impose unnecessary
costs on electronic commerce and would place UK law in conflict with the
proposed EU Electronic Signatures Directive, which extends legal
recognition to both licensed and unlicensed electronic signatures.

UK law should extend legal recognition to closed-system and limited-use
certificates and affirm parties' freedom of contract.  Electronic
signatures are used in a variety of closed systems and for a broad range of
specific uses, such as on-line banking and credit card systems.  Because
closed-system and limited-use certificates will play a crucial role in the
development of on-line applications, the law should expressly extend legal
recognition to such certificates.  UK legislation should also treat
electronic and paper transactions the same in terms of freedom of contract,
so that private parties have the same flexibility to structure their
electronic transactions as they do for traditional forms of commerce.

The proposed legislation should not require licensed CAs to escrow
encryption keys.  Many users of electronic signatures will refuse to allow
their private encryption keys to be escrowed, and will therefore refuse to
use licensed CAs if they must also hand over their private encryption keys.
 Such a result would undermine the use of electronic signatures and would
threaten the development of electronic commerce in the UK.  Thus, UK law
should allow licensed CAs to provide encryption services without
maintaining a key escrow or key recovery system.

3. DTI should abandon plans to extend existing export controls to
"intangible" transfers.

Applying existing export controls to intangible transfers of encryption is
unworkable and impractical.  In its recent white paper on Strategic Export
Controls (July 1998), DTI announced plans to extend existing export
controls to intangible transfers.  However, strong encryption is widely
available on the Internet from servers located outside the UK.  Thus, the
proposed restrictions would not prevent criminals from using strong
encryption, but would impose added costs and burdens on lawful
manufacturers and distributors of encryption products.

The proposed export controls will harm UK firms.  UK businesses already
face a competitive disadvantage to foreign competitors due to restrictions
on exporting encryption in tangible form.  To extend this to intangible
transfers will make it even more difficult for UK firms to compete
globally.

The UK should loosen, rather than tighten, existing export controls on
encryption.  Export restrictions on encryption make it much more expensive
for UK firms to compete globally, without having any real impact on crime.
Rather than act unilaterally on this issue, the UK should adhere to the
European-wide standards set forth in the EU Regulation on Dual-Use Goods.

/ends

#  #  #  #  #  #  #  #  #  #  #  #  #  #  #  #  #  #  #  #  #  #  #  #  #
To leave the list, send email to Majordomo@www.ispo.cec.be saying
unsubscribe E-commerc your@email.address
as the first line of your message (*not* as the subject)
#  #  #  #  #  #  #  #  #  #  #  #  #  #  #  #  #  #  #  #  #  #  #  #  #

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 02:16:57 +0800
To: Digital Bearer Settlement List 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


X-Sender: stalder@fis.fis.utoronto.ca
Mime-Version: 1.0
Date: 	Thu, 5 Nov 1998 12:03:10 -0500
To: micropay@ai.mit.edu
From: Felix Stalder 
Subject:  Digicash in serious trouble
Sender: owner-micropay@ai.mit.edu
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: micropay@ai.mit.edu

[bad news]

http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,28360,00.html

By Tim Clark
Staff Writer, CNET News.com
November 4, 1998, 6:05 p.m. PT

Electronic-cash pioneer DigiCash said today it's filing for Chapter 11
bankruptcy protection after shrinking its payroll to about six people from
nearly 50 in February.

The company, which has been running off a bridge loan from its venture
capital investors since June, is seeking new investors from established
financial institutions or a buyer for its software technology. The
company's operations in the Netherlands, where it was founded, were
liquidated in September.

"To really launch and brand something like this in the Internet space is
likely to take a fair amount more capital," said Scott Loftesness,
DigiCash's interim CEO since August. "It's more appropriate for strategic
investors, corporate players or banks themselves as a consortium model."

Electronic-cash schemes have found difficult sledding recently. First
Virtual Holdings, which had a form of e-cash, exited the business in July.
CyberCash's CyberCoin offering hasn't really caught on. Digital Equipment,
now part of Compaq Computer is testing its Millicent electronic cash, and
IBM is in early trials for a product called Minipay.

Under bankruptcy laws, DigiCash's Chapter 11 filing allows the company to
continue operations, while keeping its creditors at bay as the company
reorganizes. Most of DigiCash's $4 million in debt is owed to its initial
venture capital financiers who extended the bridge loan, August Capital,
Applied Technology, and Dutch investment firm Gilde Investment.

DigiCash's eCash allows consumers to make anonymous payments of any
amount--and anonymity differentiates eCash against other e-cash schemes.
DigiCash's intellectual property assets include patents, protocols, and
software systems that also could be used for applications, like online
electronic voting or private scrip issued by a particular retailer.

DigiCash suffered a setback in September when the only U.S. bank offering
its scheme, Mark Twain Bank, dropped the offering. But a number of major
banks in Europe and Australia offer or are testing DigiCash's electronic
cash.

Also in September, DigiCash closed its Dutch operations and liquidated its
assets there.

Loftesness said DigiCash has a list of 35-40 potential partners, and he
has been talking to players like IBM for months. He expects to resolve
DigiCash's status in the next five months.

"Everybody feels anonymous e-cash is inevitable, but the existing
situation was not going to get there from here," said Loftesness, who is
frustrated by potential partners telling him, "This is absolutely
strategic, but unfortunately it's not urgent."

The company was founded by David Chaum and was well-known in the
Internet's earliest days. MIT Media Labs' Nicholas Negroponte is a
director of DigiCash.


---
#  distributed via nettime-l : no commercial use without permission
#   is a closed moderated mailinglist for net criticism,
#  collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
#  more info: majordomo@desk.nl and "info nettime-l" in the msg body
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-----|||||---||||----|||||--------||||----

Les faits sont faits.
http://www.fis.utoronto.ca/~stalder

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 05:42:47 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981105130909.007f1730@m7.sprynet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 08:47 AM 11/5/98 -0600, Jim Choate wrote:
>Here's a simple way to test the bounce-pattern of your micro-wave oven:

Simpler: stick a neon-bulb with the leads twisted off into the oven.
Watch the glow vary. Put a cup of water in there since you're not supposed
to run empty.

You of course know about CDs as uwave detectors :-)

> -	Make sure the stake is in suitable ground without lots of quartz
>        and other similar peizo-electric materials.

Not piezo (though quartz is), but non conductive.  You have to 
tap the groundwater table.  Sand, granite don't conduct.









  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 04:12:20 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: TEMPEST laptops (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811051947.NAA13767@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 09:28:06 -0800
> From: Michael Motyka 
> Subject: Re: TEMPEST laptops (fwd)

> The distinction you are trying to express is that not all signals have
> equal information content and that it is the levels of the high-content
> ones that matter.

Nope. What I am saying is the absolute magnitude of the carrier wave is
irrelevant, it's the modulation that matters and that modulation if small
and it's riding on a big carrier is hard to get at because you swamp your
front-ends because of dynamic range.

> Fine, but shielding is indiscriminate so shield away.

Shielding will attenuate all parts of the signal so it is a Good Thing (TM).

> And run your Tesla coil and some Ramones music to increase the ambient
> noise while you're doing sensitive computing.

Gabba gabba hey hey...thought I don't run my Tesla Coil when my computers
are on, they object to the 4ft sparks.

> Look for MIB carrying Dewars in your neighborhood! 
> How cold do Peltier junctions get? 
> Probably good enough for a sidewinder or a low-noise rcvr.

Peltier devices are for thermal transport by binding the thermal photons
and transporting them to a different environ where they may be emitted.
Hence the original environ is cooled.

You're talking about Josephson Junctions I suspect and they're useless for
signal detection, they're a switch. SQUIDS are what are used for truly
small level signals.

The KKK took my baby away....


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 06:45:04 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone (fwd)
Message-ID: <5F152E6E8E6FD21195DF00104B2425AD02B24B@yarrowbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




> Robert Hettinga wrote:
> > A government is just another economic actor. A very large 
> > economic actor with lots of guns and a monopoly on force, 
> > but an economic actor nonetheless.
> 
> No they are not,
> 
> Yes, they are. Can you say 'taxes'?

Imposed by a gun.

> Can you say 'interstate commerce'?

What about it?

> Can you say 'mint money'? Can you say 'federal reserve'?

Can you say government fiat?

> Can you say 'FDIC'?

Can you say banking regulation at the point of a gun?
 
> I thought so.

Yep.

> > History shows this.
> 
> Really? What history?

The Soviet Union is a prime recent example. British Mercantilism.
Governments are ultimately bound to economics in the sense of human behavior
and productivity -- the more they deny the nature of microeconomic actors,
the quicker they self-destruct.
History shows that every dynasty well eventually self-destruct, to think
ours won't is foolish. My point is we don't have competitive governments per
se, you have a power void that is filled by new government that can be just
as hostile to those microeconomic actors. All our government failures have
yet to produce a sustainable government.

> False distinction. Politics is about control and power

The fundamental laws of economics are supply and demand. As soon as you
through force into the equation, it is no longer economic, it is political.

> in human society that breaks down to force and money.

The essence of money has no political roots. The essence of money is human
productivity and trade.

Money is tied to politics currently because it is regulated by force of
government and the money *supply* is created by government fiat.

> There you go again, confusing privacy with economics...

The discussion *was* *privacy*, or did you completely miss the initial
discussion? Privacy (as opposed to secrecy) is about discretionary
disclosure of information. To invade privacy is to remove or prevent that
discretion. There is an economic cost of doing so, and an economic benefit.
Corporations are bound by those economics, whereas government can mandate
transparency by whim and gun.

> > use coercive force today preventing privacy, but government is 
> > their instrument of force.
> 
> True, but that isn't a function of regulation per se only the 
> particular type of regulation that we have implimented.

It is the *nature* of regulation. The end element of any regulation is a
gun. Government is a natural instrument of collective legalized force by any
group that can influence it, and to think it can't and won't be influenced
denies human nature in regards to power. Every government is despotic by
nature, force corrupts. 

> > They have a *legal* monopoly on force (within a state).
> 
> No, they don't. It is perfectly legal for an individual to 
> own a weapon.

The legal monopoly on the *initiation* of force. And in fact you have very
little freedom (eternally diminishing) to obtain potential force (arms) and
use it in a *reactionary* manner. You have absolutely *no* freedom to use it
reactionary against government (which is in the face of the 4th).

> There is also a clear distinction between the local police, 
> your state police, federal agents, military, etc.

It is an irrelevant distinction in this case, it is all government. They do
not use force against each other as any sort of competitive balance.

> No it doesn't. It points to the fact that individuals want to 
> participate in some activity that some other party doesn't 
> want to occur.

General democratic consensus is highly controlled by media and government
propaganda (if they are not one in the same). What is the underlying
motivation?

Is hemp illegal because people don't want people to smoke weed, or because
of the cotton lobby?

Is the war on drugs so unbreakable because people don't want people taking
drugs, or because the government funds black operations with its sales, uses
it to confiscate private property, and as a sounding post for increased
powers?

Do people not want free banking, or does the government wish to protects its
fiat currency and artificial stability flying in the face of economic
reality?

> It does not imply that the regulating party wants the potential 
> income from those activities.

Money or power, more often than most people think.

> Further more, even in a free-market there will exist 
> black markets.

Provided you don't corrupt the meaning of free-market to include any
possible black market, then yes, there will *always* be a black market. It
can be made rather insignificant however.

> The aspect of a free-market is that there is no consequence from 
> such actions (unless you want to admit to allowing corporations to have
> their own hit squads).

And again you pervert the meaning of free market. I'm tired arguing that
subject with you, go read a book.

	Matt




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 04:50:37 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: How to test *your* microwave oven distribution pattern. (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811052002.OAA13832@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 11:42:41 -0800
> From: Michael Motyka 
> Subject: Re: How to test *your* microwave oven distribution pattern.

> Please explain to me why it matters that the box be grounded!

Electricity runs from a high-potential point to ground. If it isn't grounded
it radiates away into space where it can be detected. If the Faraday Cage
isn't grounded it simply acts as a parasitic oscillator and re-emits the
signal from inside, though at a lower amplitude. Remember, charge rests on
the *OUTSIDE* of a object so that any charge picked up internaly gets passed
to the outside surface.

Which raises another point. Since sharp corners radiate better because they
hold larger charges one should probably avoid sharp angles or corners.
Though you might be able to use that to advantage by having a caged needle
that radiates the majority away into the grounded cage.

Probably the ideal 'laptop' would be a metal ball with a grounding wire and
a single large mil-spec connector that drives a HMD. Something like the Rock
City by Archistrat but round instead of cubical.

> Radiated energy from chips and traces is independent of your mongo
> ground strap to the mother ship.

Not if the ground plane on the pcb is built right. The amount of free-space
radiation can be minimized because the capacitive coupling between the
emitting source and the local ground is less than the capacitive coupling
to Earth through the atmosphere. Since the signal path impedence to the
local ground plain is lower it will carry, proportionaly, the majority 
of the signal.

> All the strap does is alter the DC
> potential. Shield your box well but design out the leg irons and the
> geological requirements.

Actualy it is much more complex than that, it effects the AC signal path
impedence as well - which is exactly what one wants.

As I said above, don't ground the box and it simply acts as a secondary
emitter. This is analogous to those parasitic oscillators they put in books
and such that ring an alarm if you walk between the poles at the store.

I'm at work right now so I can't get too specific but there is a book that I
have at home that is called 'Digital Black Magic' (I believe). It covers
a lot of these sorts of issues. When I'm home later I'll post a pointer
to the correct title, author, and ISBN.

The 1st rule of electrons:

They always take the shortest path to ground. 

Corollary:

If they can't get to ground they radiate their excess energy away as
photons.



    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 06:44:32 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Now where am I gonna get a good horseburger?
Message-ID: <36422225.52F2@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



In CA it is now a felony to eat a horse. I don't remember asking to be
transported to Walt Disney World...wait 'til someone other than Gary
Larson anthropomorphises the chicken, cow and pig!

On a lighter, more technical note - 

Avoiding carefully, for the moment, Harvey Rook's statement that
weaknesses in cipher systems often lie in key generation and management
and not in the crypto algorithms, I'll ask a few -naive- questions:

If we construct a CSPRNG with a ?sufficiently? large state and then use
the output of that PRNG to generate a new key for each block encrypted
by a standard block cipher have we gained anything? Large files vs.
small? When used with triple encryption like 3DES? The ROI for finding a
single key is certainly much lower if the PRNG is "good".

I've never seen a PR keystream for a conventional block cipher discussed
so I thought I'd lob it out there.

Mike




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mixmaster 
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 07:37:19 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <99ebb21979319a23b4f5dafb9ef3cf83@anonymous>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Re voting for politicos:  just received this spam...
--------- Begin forwarded message ----------
Subject: Psst.....
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 09:31:39 -0500
Message-ID:
<3.0.3.32.19981104093139.00b88b80@nyc-services.nis.newscorp.com>

>>>
>>>>When John Glenn returns from space, everybody dress in Ape Suits.
>>>>
>>>>Pass it on.
>>>>

--------- End forwarded message ----------






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Albert P. Franco, II" 
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 23:38:44 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Who Cares (fwd)
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981105143404.00885e50@apf2.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




>
>Forwarded message:
>
>> From: "Blanc" 

>> policy:  what are all those other people doing?
>
>From: Jim Choate 
>If you're talking about the people who didn't vote, they're trying to keep
>from going under. Probably working two jobs, keeping the kids in school and
>out of trouble, saving for college, paying the house morgage off, etc. Who's
>in office won't make a whit of difference to any of that. It's irrelevant.
>
>If you're talking about the politicians, they're laughing their ass off on
>the way to the bank to cash their tax-derived income.
>
>
And then there are those of us who are denied our opportunity to vote
because the damn absentee ballot always seems to arrive a week after the
election!! 

Coincidence? Bad Luck? Or is it design?

APF




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matt Elliott 
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 05:48:25 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: Re: How to test *your* microwave oven distribution pattern.
In-Reply-To: <3641FFB1.75BB@lsil.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>
>Please explain to me why it matters that the box be grounded!
>
>Radiated energy from chips and traces is independent of your mongo
>ground strap to the mother ship. All the strap does is alter the DC
>potential. Shield your box well but design out the leg irons and the
>geological requirements.
>
>

Please explain how you can sheild something without grounding it.  Doesn't 
the energy need some place to go?




Matt 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 05:52:46 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: TEMPEST laptops (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811052117.PAA14255@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 11:56:20 -0500
> From: Petro 
> Subject: Re: TEMPEST laptops (fwd)

> >It depends on the frequency. Last time I checked a laser or a maser (both
> >are radio waves strictly speaking) travel LOS. The scattering comes from
> >beam divergence and incidental refractions and reflections from the
> >molecules in the air and supported detritus.
> 
> 	And both Lasers and Masers scatter under certain conditions. If you
> can see the laser, it is scattering a bit of [energy light photons]

All EM radiation scatters *IF* the wavelength of the signal is comparable
to the wavelength of the particulate. If the particulate is less than about
1/3 wavelength it won't significantly scatter.

The reason that dust in the air scatters lasers (and masers don't have this
problem because the wavelength is too long) is that the particles are
significantly larger than the wavelenght of the signal. It is directly
analogous to moon-shine. In astronomy this is related to something called
the Poynting Effect.

This is also the reason that IR radiation goes through smoke and fog while
visible light won't. Raleigh Scattering is the reason that the fog appears
white.

In photography and radar mapping this is what limits the resolution of the
bounced signal as well.

You can build an experiment to demonstrate this with peg-board, pegs, and
some rope. Lay the peg-board on a table. Place a peg on one edge and connect
the rope. then along the line of the rope place other pegs at equal but
different distances and try to get a transverse plane wave to travel down
the rope. Note the relative wavelenght of the wave in the rope to the
spacing of the pegs. It takes practice to get it to work correctly so don't
give up to easy.

> 	I was under the (apparently false) impression that things like
> animal bodies, and ordinary building materials (like wood, Lathe &
> plaster/drywall) wouldn't stop or significantly bounce the beams back the
> way you didn't want them to go.

Depends on the material, angle of incidence, water content, frequency of the
signal, transmissivity of the material at that frequency, etc.

In the 10cm radar (used by tanks and ground troops to find each other) even
leaves will bounce a signal.

> 	I was thinking more of controling the direction of the RF, rather
> than trying to completely supress it.

Exaclty. The issue then is what do we do with the signal once we've got it
directed where we want it. For EM signals we want to get them to a ground
plane so they go away and don't exist anymore.

If it doesn't exist anymore you can't very well tap it.

> 	We're not cooking Hotdogs here, and we aren't using (for the most
> part) microwaves. Yes, you can heat a hotdog on a PII, but that is more
> from heat radiation than RF.
> 
> 	Microwave ovens also leak RF.

True enough, but the physics are applicable. Don't confuse cause with
effect.

As to microwave ovens leaking, yes but they leak orders of magnitude less
which makes them orders of magnitude harder to detect. That is the point to
TEMPEST after all, take advantage of the 1/r^2 law so the mallet has to be
sitting right in your lap to get a good field strength.



    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 08:08:48 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: Re: Grounding
Message-ID: <364233E1.13BB@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim,

I really have to disagree about shielding and leakage.

***
Electricity runs from a high-potential point to ground. If it isn't
grounded
it radiates away into space where it can be detected. If the Faraday
Cage
isn't grounded it simply acts as a parasitic oscillator and re-emits the
signal from inside, though at a lower amplitude. Remember, charge rests
on
the *OUTSIDE* of a object so that any charge picked up internaly gets
passed
to the outside surface.
***

Consider a battery-powered spark gap inside a copper box. Lots of
beautiful wideband noise. I refuse to ground my copper box. I'm going to
suspend it from a weather balloon over Menwith Hill. 

The solutions to the wave equation inside the cavity have a real part ~0
in the exponent. The boundary condition at the inside surface of the
copper box splices together the solutions in the cavity and inside the
conductor. Which solutions, BTW, have a real component that is non-zero
so the waves are of exponentially decreasing amplitude the further into
the Cu you go ( skin depth, power loss ). 

At the inside boundary, the higher the conductivity the smaller the E
field at the surface, the shallower the skin depth and the more power is
reflected with less loss.

The amplitude of the internal Cu ( exponentially decreasing ) solutions
at the outside surface determines the extent to which the wave leaks out
because the solution is imaginary again outside. 

If it helps, the solution looks like the Schroedinger equation solution
for a particle in a potential well when at least one boundary is a
region of finite potential.

Leakage has nothing to do with being grounded since the wave can be
generated without the total charge residing on the surface of the box (
DC potential ) changing at all. What's there just moves around a little,
that's all.

I don't think it takes a whole lot of copper to do the job: the skin
depth is pretty small. A copper screen behaves much like the copper
sheet execept that it deviates as the wavelengths become closer to the
dimensions of the holes. You might say that the resistivity increases
with frequency. It leaks more.

**
The 1st rule of electrons:
 They always take the shortest path to ground.
Corollary:
 If they can't get to ground they radiate their excess energy away as
 photons.
***
Oh, for crying out loud! Where did this stuff come from?

I prefer the three laws of thermodynamics in layman's terms:
i)   You can't get something for nothing
ii)  The best you can do is break even
iii) You can't even do that

Works for my checking account too.

Regards,
Mike

BTW - I'm still at a loss to understand what the geology has to do with
RF shielding. Chaff, I think.

BTW^2 - The more conductive the TARMAC the more clutter you'll get
because it will be a better reflector. Ground or not. The incident waves
*don't care*.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 06:00:48 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: How to test *your* microwave oven distribution pattern. (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811052126.PAA14347@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 13:09:09 -0800
> From: David Honig 
> Subject: Re: How to test *your* microwave oven distribution pattern.

> At 08:47 AM 11/5/98 -0600, Jim Choate wrote:
> >Here's a simple way to test the bounce-pattern of your micro-wave oven:
> 
> Simpler: stick a neon-bulb with the leads twisted off into the oven.
> Watch the glow vary. Put a cup of water in there since you're not supposed
> to run empty.

Yes, but they don't give you as easily measured level of the incident
radiation.

with a neon bulb or a flourescent tube (what I prefer) you have a hard time
mapping radiation level to brightness with commenly available photometers.
Photo quality stuff isn't nearly accurate enough.

> > -	Make sure the stake is in suitable ground without lots of quartz
> >        and other similar peizo-electric materials.
> 
> Not piezo (though quartz is), but non conductive.  You have to 
> tap the groundwater table.  Sand, granite don't conduct.

Sand has lots of piezo. You don't want piezo because the ground pressure on
the stake will cause excessive noise.

As to non-conductive, you *WANT* it to be conductive otherwise the signals
will form ground waves and propogate horizontaly. You can see this with
radar signals from aircraft that bounce off the tarmac (I used to live next
to the Austin airport and had access to a spectrum analyzer).

If the ground plane isn't conductive it isn't a ground plane.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 06:46:59 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811052212.QAA14923@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 10:43:40 -0500
> From: Petro 
> Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone
>  (fwd)

> 	Anarchy is usually defined as the absense of government. What
> exactly makes up a "government", what are it's defining characteristics?

Well let's see....

control over some geographic area

arbitration of conflict

tithe from the inhabitants of that area

regulation of economic systems by controlling the medium of trade (ie money)

> 	Simply a device for reallocating wealth?--Insufficient, there are
> lots of mechanisms for that.

No, government control economies that's not the same thing as having
re-allocation of wealth as a goal. That's more a responsbility of a business
than a government. Governments, at least in principle, are concerned with
stable economies and the continued existance of same. Who exactly, if
anyone, is holder of that wealth is in principle irrelevant to the
definition of political systems as a general expression of human psychology.

Though it is clear the devil is in the details.

> 	A body that lays down standards and rules of conduct?--Sounds like
> a church or industry consortium to me.

It sounds like an expression of the social aspects of human psychology.
Whether it's a church, industry consortium, local LEA, local fire dept.,
etc.

> 	A heirarchical (sp?) structure that uses fear, propaganda and force
> to reallocate wealth, enforce standards and rules of conduct, and other
> things at whim (for varying values of "whim", from the "whim" of a
> dictator, to the "whim" of the "body politic").

Who cares whether it's heirarchical or flat (as in an anarchy or
free-market). The point is that abuse takes place.

It is no more ethical to bash somebodies brains in under an anarchy than it
is in a democracy or a communicsm.

> 	Now, THAT is a government. Yes, some of what it enforces is
> probably a good idea (i.e. everyone driving on the same side of the road,
> &etc) some if it is kinda silly (don't smoke dope, or you're going to jail
> (Here, have a beer)), and some of it is downright stupid and shortsighted
> (encryption policy, not drinking beer out of a bucket on the sidewalk).

Sounds like an expression of the range of human beliefs. Whether something
is right, wrong, stupid, etc. is a function of individual statements of
importance and ranking of consequences.

> 	Anarchy is not having to be effected by that, being "free" to
> follow what one thinks is right.

Which unfortunately includes the neighbor being able to take your property
by force since he believes it's right.

> How one gets to that state is not really
> relevent.

Tell that to the mother of the kid who got killed last night because he had
something somebody else wanted. Also explain to here how under an anarchy
there isn't any recourse for her other than to try to find that person
herself and kill them....

Yep, that is a very efficient and ethical system you wanna build.

 My statement above simply lays out the position having Privacy
> (for large enough values of privacy to be meaningful) and Freedom (for
> large enough values of Freedom to be meaningful) one is effectively in an
> anarchistic state. That is what "close enough to be meaningful" meant.

Freedom is the right to do what you want *WITHOUT* impinging or otherwise
limiting others right to express their desires and wants.

Anarchy clearly won't do that.

> 	Privacy is (at least it's my understanding) the ability to hide or
> mask   information in such a way that only people you wish to have access
> to it do.

If privacy exists you don't have to hide things because nobodies looking in
the first place.

You only need to hide things if you're reasonably certain somebody else
wants it.

> 	There are varying degrees of Privacy, from "Well, at least they

Yep, like there are varying degrees of pregnancy. Either somebody is looking
or they aren't.

> don't analyize what's in my feeces, even if they do watch me take it" to
> being able to completely hide any information at all from anyone.

No, that is varying degrees of *respect* for privacy. Not the same animal at
all.

> 	Freedom is the ability to make choices, and exercise those choices.

Without impinging on others freedom.

It's worth noting that anarchist don't add that last one in there because it
blows their whole little house of cards completely away.

> 	Just like privacy, there are varying degrees of freedom, from the
> convict who can chose wheter he/she wants to eat that slop or go hungry, to
> the president of the US who can (apparently) bomb people with impunity, lie
> under oath & etc.

No, there are varying degrees of respect for freedom.

> 	When the amount of freedom and privacy is high enough, it is
> indistinguishable from anarchy.

Sure it is, because under anarchy there is no protection that one persons
expression won't interfere with anothers expression without resorting to
violence.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bart van Moorsel 
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 00:09:19 +0800
To: "cypherpunks@toad.com>
Subject: How to save a real audio stream?
Message-ID: <3641C1C5.9AF5A93C@kivi.nl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Can anybody explain how to save a real audio stream? I think I saw this
question before, sorry to ask for a replay.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 06:55:19 +0800
To: dcsb@ai.mit.edu
Subject: FYI:  Digicash bankruptcy
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


X-Sender: "Nahum.array" 
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 14:32:51 -0500
To: ibc-forum@ARRAYdev.com
From: Nahum Goldmann 
Subject: FYI:  Digicash bankruptcy
Mime-Version: 1.0

I believe this kind of information is invaluable.  Personally, I do not
subscribe to Agre's doom and gloom.  For years I'm saying that there is a
very little "i" and a very large "C" in iCommerce.

Chaum might be many bright things but an entrepreneur he definitely ain't.
But than it's quite difficult in this new paradigm for all of us.

Of course, Bob Hettinga could have saved quite a lot of energy and avoid
much disappointment if he did pay for that my trip to Antigua.  I always
believe that unpaid advice is not listened to, and here is a good prove of
this concept.

Have fun.  I'm sure it will come.  Eventually.

Nahum Goldmann
ARRAY Development
http://www.ARRAYdev.com

=======================================================

Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 10:36:52 -0800 (PST)
From: Phil Agre 
To: "Red Rock Eater News Service" 
Subject: [RRE]Digicash bankruptcy
Sender: 
List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.2 by Fog City Software, Inc.
List-Subscribe: 
List-Unsubscribe: 

[With the bankruptcy of Digicash, it is time to assemble the definitive
list of underperforming Internet technologies.  The received wisdom is
that the Internet lies at the vortex of a historically unprecedented era
of intensive and disruptive technological change.  A sober reading of the
evidence, however, supports something much closer to the opposite thesis,
viz, the Internet is a modest and useful new tool that, despite itself,
has given rise to an astonishingly wasteful mania whereby perfectly
good capital is plowed into one ill-conceived technology after another.
Consider: interactive television, VRML, Active X, network computers,
"push" technology, agents, "social" interfaces, resource visualization,
cryptographic payment mechanisms (aka "electronic commerce"), and others
that I hope you'll remind me about.  Each of these has been the object
of a frenzy that has compelled all manner of smart people, and a whole
lot of dumb ones such as myself, to say things like, "boy oh boy, the
world is going to be completely different a year from now".  This has
been going on continuously since the PR hype that accompanied the run-up
to the (failed) Communications Act of 1994 and then the (passed but then
catastrophically failed) Communications Act of 1996.  It has been fanned
by Wired magazine, whose capitulation to Conde Nast has ended an era that
should never have begun, and now it is marked by the bankruptcy of David
Chaum's Digicash.  All right-thinking people were in favor of Digicash,
whose technologies were as intellectually elegant as they were socially
responsible.  The problem is that the Digicash people were living in the
world of Alice and Bob -- a place where a mathematical proof can change
the world in perfect defiance of the dynamics (if you can call them that)
of large, highly integrated institutions.  Like many Internet-related
startups, Digicash existed only to the precise extent that the press was
writing about it, and now it doesn't exist at all.  So right now would
be an excellent time for us to renounce the false idea that we are living
in a time of unprecedented technical change.  Yes, the Web has been going
through a period of exponential growth.  But no, that growth is not at
all unprecedented, and in fact it is running behind the penetration rates
that earlier technologies such as the radio and gas cooking achieved once
they started being adopted on a mass scale.  (See, for example, Ronald C.
Tobey's scholarly and absorbing "Technology As Freedom: The New Deal and
the Electrical Modernization of the American Home", Univ. of California
Press, 1996.)  Nor has the underlying Internet changed at all quickly.
The Internet protocols that we use today are unchanged in their essentials
from about 1982.  In fact, once the real history of this era is written,
I think that 1982 will shape up as the true annus mirabilis, and 1994 will
simply be seen as the era when the innovations of ten to fifteen years
earlier finally caught public attention and reached the price point that
was needed to achieve the network externalities required for its large-
scale adoption.  If we get out the rake and drag away all of the detritus
of the underperforming technologies that I listed above, and compare our
times on an apples-for-apples basis with other periods of technological
innovation -- including the Depression era, for heaven's sake -- then I
think we will have a much healthier perspective going forward.  As it is,
people the world over have been propagandized into a state of panic, one
that encourages them to abandon all of their experience and common sense
and buy lots of computer equipment so that they will not be scorned by
their children and left behind by the apocalypse that is supposedly going
to arrive any day now.  No such apocalypse is going to occur, and all of
the TV preachers who have been announcing this apocalypse should apologize
and give the people their money back.  Yes, the world is going to change.
Yes, information technology will participate, and is already participating,
in a significant overhaul of the workings of most major social institutions.
But no, those changes are not going to happen overnight.  The sad line-up
of underperforming technologies should be understood not as serious attempts
at innovation but as a kind of ritual, an expensive and counterproductive
substitute for the chants and dances that healthy societies perform when
they are placed under stress.  Maybe once we get some healthy rituals for
contending with technological change ourselves, we will be able to snap out
of our trance, cast off the ridiculous hopes and fears of an artificially
induced millennium, and take up the serious work of discussing, organizing,
and contesting the major choices about our institutions that lie ahead.]

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
This message was forwarded through the Red Rock Eater News Service (RRE).
Send any replies to the original author, listed in the From: field below.
You are welcome to send the message along to others but please do not use
the "redirect" command.  For information on RRE, including instructions
for (un)subscribing, see http://dlis.gseis.ucla.edu/people/pagre/rre.html
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Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 18:02:08 -0500
From: Robert Hettinga 
To: Digital Bearer Settlement List , dcsb@ai.mit.edu,
        e$@vmeng.com, cryptography@c2.net, cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: DigiCash Inc. to File Reorganization, Seeks Partners to Drive
eCash Forward

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----


Okay.

Contrary to my own previous -- and painfully recent -- opinions on the matter,
Digicash, Inc., is, more or less, in play again, or it will be if there is
enough money chasing it. Whatever "enough" means.

Putting on my Gordon Gekko hat, here, I'm interested in finding out a few
things. Yes, I have seen the greater fool theory of the blind signature patent
operate more than a few times, but I am, nonetheless, driven to think about
this, and I might as well be public in my musing, at least for the time being.


For expenses of any new company, it should be pretty clear by now what I would
do with the DigiCash technology portfolio. I would put a real good
intellectual property lawyer on the payroll, keep the cryptographers who would
still consent to stick around, keep or improve whatever software test people
they have left, and do nothing but sell licenses and implementation
certifications, using the the underwiting model at
 as a roadmap.

For this imaginary company's revenue, aside from direct fees for validating a
developer's, and possibly an underwriter's, implementation of the protocol,
the trustee would be the only point of patent royalty collection and payment
from the underwriters and developers to the new patent holder.

As far as the current installed base is concerned, I would probably spin off a
company to support those customers, and give it a non-exclusive license as if
it were any other developer.

This assumes, of course, that DigiCash BV/Inc. didn't issue
exclusive-by-country licenses. While it appears on the surface that they have
done exactly this, I have been met with what seems like incredulity from
various DigiCash folks when I talk about it, so, for the time being, I'll take
them at their word when they tell me it isn't so. Actually, when I think about
it, it may be immaterial, as there are lots of countries on the internet to
park underwriters and trustees in, and they can denominate their bearer cash
instruments in any currency they want.

One way or another, the software side of DigiCash would be gone. We figure out
what the net present value is of the current licenses, and hope that a company
can be formed around that cashflow and spun off into a separate software
development company. If we're lucky, we make money on the spinoff and keep the
patent. If we're not lucky, DigiCash will probably have to get rid of it's
current obligations before *anyone* clueful would step in to pick up the
patents, and just the patents, alone.


Obviously, what has been spent so far building DigiCash, BV or Inc., is
immaterial to any discussion of the future. Just like what happened to Chaum,
et. al., when Negroponte and companies um, executed, the purchase of last
version of DigiCash, we have to completely forget the all the money which
has been spent on Digicash BV, now Digicash Inc., so far, and ignore the
howls of the current investors, as painful as that may be to listen to. :-).
They knew the job was dangerous when they took it, anyway...


Okay, that's a nice story. How about some actual data? I expect the best way
to get a handle of royalties is to start soliciting actual projected royalty
estimates from potential developers and underwriters, but, frankly, I think
that most developers and underwriters, like the rest of us, have no real idea
how much money they're going to make. Nonetheless, if anyone's interested in
telling me, offline, what they think they would would be fair royalty
payments, either as an underwriter or as a developer, I'd like to hear their
estimates. My PGP key is attached.

My own rule of thumb, for cash anyway, is that an underwriter can probably
charge no more than a bank charges to one of their non-customer ATM
transactions. That's probably no more than $3.00 a withdrawl. They also get to
keep the interest on the reserve account, if any, of course. Frankly, if the
royalties are low enough, that may be more than enough revenue to bootstrap a
business with, and   I would personally lobby for as low a royalty structure
as possible. That, of course, is driven entirely by the cost/revenue picture,
but it might be that a majority of the short-term operations can be
bootstrapped out of validation fees.


That leaves all the other potential markets for blind-signature macroscale
digital bearer settlement, everything from long-duration bandwidth purchases
for IP or voice dialtone on up to actual securities transactions themselves.
Most of these potential applications will occur after the patents expire,
but whoever owns these patents should allow not only licenses to all comers,
but, more to the point, should allow all *licensees* to worry about the
legal ramafications of the patents' use.

If a particular licensee can find a legal jurisdiction to offer utterly
anonymous digital bearer instruments backed by totally anonymous reserves,
then, as long as the licensee pays up, god bless 'em. The patents should be
licensed within the law, certainly, but, other than that, their use should be
considered value neutral, like all technology. As in all bearer markets
before them, the digital bearer trustee will be the point of maximum legal
compliance, and, as such, will be the functional "policeman" of the system.  I
leave the interesting solution of bearer-backed trustees for some other day,
probably after the patents have long expired.


Okay. There's lots more to talk about, of course, but I'm kind of tapped out
on this for the time being.

If you're an intellectual property lawyer, and you fancy yourself running the
DigiCash patent portfolio, contact me directly. I'm not sure exactly what I
can do, if anything, but I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts on this,
as the potential core person of this as yet imaginary enterprize, up to, and
including what it would cost for you to sign on for this much fun as at least
in-house counsel, if not the actual CEO. :-).

In addition, if someone has a reasonable non-proprietary(!) estimate of the
projected revenues on all those outstanding ecash contracts, that would be
nice to know as well. The terms of those contracts, are, of course, probably
unknowable at the moment, at least until someone has enough known scratch to
belly up to the table, sign an NDA and take a peek. Of course, then they
couldn't tell us anything anyway...

Isn't this fun?



Cheers,
Bob Hettinga

[Public keys ommitted]
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'


--------------160D55EEEBD38D036F141A24--

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 08:58:07 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: Re: How to test *your* microwave oven distribution pattern.
Message-ID: <364241B5.408B@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Matt,

> Please explain how you can sheild something without grounding it.
> Doesn't the energy need some place to go?
>
Wrong metaphor for RF energy. It's not water. A ground is not a storm
drain.

Imagine two conductive spheres ( earth and moon ? ) and an RF generator
in a box sitting *peacefully* in space. Classical 3-body problem. The DC
potential that exists between any of them has absolutley no effect on a
wave travelling anywhere ( unless you want to get into the topic of
nonlinear materials ). So forget about everything in the scene except
that generator in the box. Shielding consists solely of preventing the
wave from getting out of the box into free space where it can be
detected. There is nothing special about *any* of the DC references.

Earth may be special ( source of women and beer ) but not to a wave.

Besides, chaining my laptop to a giant copper spike in a geologically
suitable region is out of the question. Just shielding it would make an
already heavy ThinkPad into a main battle tank.

Mike




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ken Williams 
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 06:19:55 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: US Cyberthreat Policy
In-Reply-To: <199811051449.JAA12327@camel8.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Kenneth A. Minihan and George J. Tenet Elected to America Online, Inc.
Board of Directors
New Board Members Hail From NSA and CIA 

DULLES, VA /DenounceNewswire/ -- 5 November 1998 -- America Online, Inc. 
announced today Lieutenant General Kenneth A. Minihan, Director of the 
National Security Agency and Chief of the Central Security Service, and 
George J. Tenet, Director of the Central Intelligence Agency, have been 
elected to its Board of Directors. AOL now boasts a board that includes 
the former head of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Colin Powell; a former 
Nixon aide General Alexander Haig; and two distingished leaders of the 
U.S. intelligence community. 

"I am proud today to announce the election of Lieutenant General Kenneth 
Minihan and George Tenet to America Online's Board of Directors. Both of 
them possess records of proven leadership and commitment to public 
service that will be invaluable to our company as we work to build our 
business and the interactive medium into the next millennium," said 
Steve Case, Chairman and CEO of America Online, Inc. 

Mr. Case added: "Lieutenant General Minihan's record of service to our 
country, both in the military and in his current work with the NSA, is 
without equal in our times. His commitment to America's security and our 
country's future fits squarely with AOL's determination to build an 
online medium that dominates people's lives -- helping us to learn, to 
organize their lives, and even to engage more fully in the political 
process." 

Mr. Case continued: "George Tenet is a visionary leader in both the 
world of intelligence-gathering and the mass marketplace. He has played 
key roles in landmark achievements for our society. His expertise in the 
world of cloak and dagger will serve AOL in meeting the critical 
challenges facing the Company and in fulfilling our commitment to build 
a medium that threatens society as no other before."

Mr. Case wasn't done yet, adding further: "We look forward to working 
with the NSA and the CIA as we migrate the AOL network over to complete 
ECHELON compatibility with the next six months." ECHELON is the 
government's secret worldwide network that monitors all voice, data, 
fax, video, satellite, and digital communications in every country, 
recording, indexing, and collating every utterance made between every 
man, woman, child, business, or other organization, as well as between 
any two computer systems anywhere. 

"The perception that the Internet can change and improve peoples' lives 
and to reconnect them to their community is powerful and extraordinary," 
said Lt. General Minihan. "I'm honored to serve on the Board of a 
company that has been leading the way in creating such a perception in 
the public's mind, and leading the way to shaping a medium that that 
will open new doors of opportunity for our national security state." 

"In the next few years, public policy discussions in Washington and 
around the world will have as much to do with the development and 
ultimate impact of the Internet as any technological advance," said Mr. 
Tenet. "I look forward to serving a Company that is at the center of 
these policy discussions and is playing a large role in determining the 
success -- or failure -- of people around the world." 

source: http://www.denounce.com/nsaol.html


Regards,
- -- 
Ken Williams

Packet Storm Security http://www.Genocide2600.com/~tattooman/index.shtml
E.H.A.P. Corporation  http://www.ehap.org/  ehap@ehap.org info@ehap.org
NCSU Comp Sci Dept    http://www.csc.ncsu.edu/ jkwilli2@adm.csc.ncsu.edu
PGP DSS/DH/RSA Keys   http://www4.ncsu.edu/~jkwilli2/pgpkey/

________________________________________________________     
Get Private, Free, Encrypted Email at http://www.nsa.gov

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Version: PGPfreeware 5.0i for non-commercial use
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 06:31:19 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Holloween II: Microsoft Plugs Linux
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



http://www.opensource.org/halloween2.html is a more extensive, (positively
glowing) freshly smuggled (planted?) internal analysis of Linux by
Microsoft.

103k, but definitely worth reading.

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 07:48:11 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Project 415
Message-ID: <199811052256.RAA03477@camel8.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Duncan Campbell says he doubts the Paul Dore
story has anything to do with P415/Echelon, which
is a collection system not a satellite. Moreover, the
description of a "deep space" satellite does not fit
the the known parameters of those that gather 
intelligence. Might be a completely new type but that's
a stretch.

One article Anonymous posted says Paul Dore denies 
having anything to do with the Web page we cited here 
as having been removed.

Another says the SETI people are pissed about the incident, 
one saying it has set SETI's credibility back "by a 100 years."

Still unexplained is the reason for the now 11,000 downloads
of Duncan's 1988 article on P451/Echelon in the last 36 hours. 
Could be an alien bot, pissed at being awakened by SETI 
putzes' screen savers.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Mark Lanett" 
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 10:32:48 +0800
To: 
Subject: Re: Holloween II: Microsoft Plugs Linux
Message-ID: <003f01be092a$5ee1b800$692856cf@frohike.novita.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



From: Anonymous 
>   By the standards of the ... developer accustomed to VB [Visual
>   Basic], these tools are incredibly primitive."

How strange! I just talked about that paragraph with a friend of mine and he
missed the EXACT same key words that you did. You LEFT OUT THE KEY WORDS!

The actual message said:

>By the standards of the novice / intermediate developer accustomed to
VB/VS/VC/VJ, these tools are incredibly
>primitive.

Which is completely correct. What I replied to the buddy:

Well they *are* [primitive]. You have to write a MAKEFILE for crying out
loud. You can't go from error messages to the source code / line in your
editor (unless you use Emacs). It's so stupid. Someone could write a simple
(scratch-itch) OSS IDE and dominate the market in no time.

The funny thing is that this was the DOS situation... MS hasn't been out of
"primitive" for that long itself.

Of course for experienced developers, GCC's 140 platforms (w/
cross-compiling) and optimizations and all is killer. But what's the ratio
of less experienced to sophisticated developers?

~mark





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: prize@survey.com
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 11:02:01 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Holiday Shopping Survey And Contest
Message-ID: <199811051834.SAA16328@survey.survey.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Dear Internet User,

The holiday season will soon be upon us. Will you be making your list and checking it twice online?    We're curious about what role, if any, the Internet will play in your holiday plans this year.  Share your opinions with us and you could win a free Talking Tommy (from hit Rugrats' TV Show) or Talking Teletubby toy (from popular PBS show).

To join in the holiday fun, go to the survey at:

http://www.survey.com/holshopsur.html

Be sure to include your email address at the end of the survey so we can enter your name in the drawing.  It is not required that any information be provided other than your email address for you to be entered into the drawing.  A complete list of contest rules is attached to the survey.

We will be happy to let you know when the results are ready.

Happy Holidays and good luck on the drawing!

Greg Harmon
Director of Research
World Research




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: prize@survey.com
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 18:16:04 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Holiday Shopping Survey And Contest
Message-ID: <199811051834.SAA16334@survey.survey.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Dear Internet User,

The holiday season will soon be upon us. Will you be making your list and checking it twice online?    We're curious about what role, if any, the Internet will play in your holiday plans this year.  Share your opinions with us and you could win a free Talking Tommy (from hit Rugrats' TV Show) or Talking Teletubby toy (from popular PBS show).

To join in the holiday fun, go to the survey at:

http://www.survey.com/holshopsur.html

Be sure to include your email address at the end of the survey so we can enter your name in the drawing.  It is not required that any information be provided other than your email address for you to be entered into the drawing.  A complete list of contest rules is attached to the survey.

We will be happy to let you know when the results are ready.

Happy Holidays and good luck on the drawing!

Greg Harmon
Director of Research
World Research




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 09:14:29 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: How to test *your* microwave oven distribution pattern. (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811060036.SAA15709@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 16:24:21 -0800
> From: Michael Motyka 
> Subject: Re: How to test *your* microwave oven distribution pattern.

> Wrong metaphor for RF energy.

You said more than you know with that one.

> It's not water. A ground is not a storm
> drain.

>From the perspective of the flow of charge that is a very good metaphor.
Charge flows from the high charge area to the low charge area *always* and
ground is by definition the lowest charge area there is. Just like water
*always* flows from the high PE to the low PE.

> Imagine two conductive spheres ( earth and moon ? ) and an RF generator
> in a box sitting *peacefully* in space. Classical 3-body problem.

That's gravity, not electrostatics. There are no intractable problems
regarding n-body electrostatics issues as there is with gravity. Now of
course in the real world we can't get one without the other, but you didn't
mention that aspect.

> The DC
> potential that exists between any of them has absolutley no effect on a
> wave travelling anywhere

DC potentials have no effect on a wave anyway, they don't emit photons. They
are a physical representation of a line intergral. The potential between two
points is not effected by the path taken to get between the two points.

> ( unless you want to get into the topic of
> nonlinear materials ). 

Bullshit.

> So forget about everything in the scene except
> that generator in the box.

Then why in hell did you bring it up in the first place.

I smell spin doctor bullshit coming....

> Shielding consists solely of preventing the
> wave from getting out of the box into free space where it can be
> detected. There is nothing special about *any* of the DC references.

There is no wave with DC. If you want to make a wave you have to *move* the
DC field generator or the measurement device.

Now the charge that is *in* the box will leak to the outside of the shield
*even if it's an insulator*, it's called charge tunneling.

> Earth may be special ( source of women and beer ) but not to a wave.

Depends on a wave of what. If we're talking electrostatics then yes Earth is
special. I would direct you to many of Nikola Tesla's work on this exact
topic but you probably wouldn't read it. It's special because the Earth
itself has a charge and that interacts with the charge on the box. If the
charges are opposite they attract and the box moves toward the Earth (the
Earth moves toward the box as well but the delta rho is inconsequential so
we usualy ignore it). If the charges are identical then the two move apart.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 09:21:20 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Grounding (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811060053.SAA15809@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 15:25:21 -0800
> From: Michael Motyka 
> Subject: Re: Grounding

> ***
> Electricity runs from a high-potential point to ground. If it isn't
> grounded
> it radiates away into space where it can be detected. If the Faraday
> Cage
> isn't grounded it simply acts as a parasitic oscillator and re-emits the
> signal from inside, though at a lower amplitude. Remember, charge rests
> on
> the *OUTSIDE* of a object so that any charge picked up internaly gets
> passed
> to the outside surface.
> ***
> 
> Consider a battery-powered spark gap inside a copper box. Lots of
> beautiful wideband noise. I refuse to ground my copper box. I'm going to
> suspend it from a weather balloon over Menwith Hill. 

And you'll build a hell of a charge on it which will travel down the
connecting cable that you have pounded into the Earth. 

> The solutions to the wave equation inside the cavity have a real part ~0
> in the exponent.

It's not a question of a Schroedingers Wave Equation, it's a question of
Maxwell's Equations.

> The boundary condition at the inside surface of the
> copper box splices together the solutions in the cavity and inside the
> conductor.

What conductor? The shell is equipotential unless you're trying to play head
games with me so there follows there can be no current flow through it
except radialy to the outside of the sphere.

Let's walk through it using your model....

The spark gap generates sparks and that builds up free electrons in the
space inside the sphere (whether it is gas filled or a vacuum is
irrelevant). As that charge builds up it will be all of one type, electrons.
Now the electrons repel each other and therefor move in a circular motion
with the spark gap as the center. They strike the surface of the sphere and
tunnel through to the outside surface where they reside. The amount of
charge at any one point is related to the curvature of the surface at that
point. Since a sphere is constant curvature the charge will be evenly
distributed. It will continue to build up so long as you supply power to the
spark gap. In an ideal world it will get bigger and bigger. In the real
world at some point insulation breaks down and normal current flow takes
place.

As to the 3 Laws of Thermodynamics, you should use Heinz Pagels (RIP) as
they are much funnier and a lot easier to understand and apply:

1. You can't break even

2. You can't get ahead

3. You can't quit the game


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 09:07:20 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Halloween II
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 18:53:46 -0500 (EST)
Reply-To: love@cptech.org
Originator: info-policy-notes@essential.org
Sender: info-policy-notes@essential.org
Precedence: bulk
From: James Love 
To: Multiple recipients of list INFO-POLICY-NOTES

Subject: Halloween II
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Comment: To unsubscribe from this list, send the message "unsubscribe
info-policy-notes" to "listproc@essential.org".  Leave the "Subject:" line
blank.

------------------------------------------------------------
Info-Policy-Notes | News from Consumer Project on Technology
------------------------------------------------------------
November 5, 1998

	Halloween II

	On November 2, 1998 Info-Policy-Notes provided a
link to the so called Halloween document, which detailed
Microsoft's analysis of Linux and other open source
software.  (http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/halloween.html)
Now Eric Rayond has published a second document which he
has dubbed Halloween II.  This one is on the web at:

   http://www.opensource.org/halloween2.html


Halloween II is authored by Vinod Valloppillil (VinodV),
the author of the Halloween I, and Josh Cohen (JoshCo).
It is dated Aug 11, 1998 , and is version 1.0.  The
heading is:

      Microsoft Confidential
      Linux Operating System
      The Next Java VM?

The document is very interesting.  One line that has gotten a lot of attention
is at the end, where the authors suggest:  "The effect of patents and copyright
in combating Linux remains to be investigated."  The Linux community generally
thinks they can out code Microsoft, so long as they are permitted.  But
there is
a lot of concern over software patents, which are often very broad, poorly
researched by the US government, and expensive to litigate.  Under recent court
cases, there are few barriers to harassment based upon spurious litigation over
patents, so this is a cause for concern.  On a topic discussed at some
length in
Halloween I, Halloween II says by "folding extended functionality into today's
commodity [open standards] services and create new [proprietary] protocols, we
raise the bar & change the rules of the game."  (the brackets added by me).

There is also an interesting article in today's Linux Today:

    Who are all these people behind the
    Halloween document?
    Nov 5th, 12:32:47
    Here's an in-depth look at the personalities
    behind the Halloween documents.
    By Dave Whitinger

    http://linuxtoday.com/stories/638.html


A few other related articles are Tim O'Rielly's Open Letter to Microsoft about
Halloween I, which is on the web at:

http://www.oreilly.com/oreilly/press/tim_msletter.html

and, news that Microsoft has tried to hire Linux hacker Alan Cox.  This
last one
suggests Microsoft is stepping up their campaign to crush the open software
movement.  Here are some excerpts that Alan Cox posted today about the
Halloween
document.

http://www.linux.org.uk/
[snip]

 Its important to realize how fundamental open
 standards are. Most people are probably sitting at a
 PC built with mixed cards from mixed vendors on an
 open standard bus, typing on a keyboard with open
 standard connectors, using an open standard Qwerty
 layout, talking an open standard RS232 serial protocol
 to a modem that talks an open protocol to the ISP. Its
 all running off a standard electricity specification.
 Even your chair is probably held together by open
 standard nuts and bolts. Computing is becoming a
 commodity item and like all commodity items it needs
 to be open, for the consumer and for the long term
 good of the industry as a whole. Linux is open, if there
 is anything you didn't get told you can check the
 source code.

 A couple of other fun things have happened too, the
 I2O SIG developing the next generation high end I/O
 interface for PC's have now made their specification
 open, and Microsoft tried to hire me. I think the I2O
 SIG have the better chance of success here.

 Alan


This is Alan Cox's home page: http://www.linux.org.uk/diary/


	There is also running commentary, much if it entertaining, often rather
speculative, but also a very good source of breaking news on these issues at:

	http://www.slashdot.org

	Finally, CPT will be studying the Halloween documents, and asking
antitrust
authorities to determine if Microsoft's intended plans to corrupt open
standards
violate antitrust laws.  More on this next week.

   Jamie Love  202.387.8030

-------------------------------------------------------------
INFORMATION POLICY NOTES: the Consumer Project on Technology
http://www.cptech.org, 202.387.8030, fax 202.234.5127.
Archives of Info-Policy-Notes are available from
http://www.essential.org/listproc/info-policy-notes/
Subscription requests to listproc@cptech.org with the message:
subscribe info-policy-notes Jane Doe
To be removed from the list, the message should read,
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--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 10:01:01 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811060134.TAA15903@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: Matthew James Gering 
> Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone
> 	 (fwd)
> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 13:52:14 -0800 

> > Yes, they are. Can you say 'taxes'?
> 
> Imposed by a gun.

Don't try to change the subject. Just because you don't find taxes
worthwhile doesn't mean others do as well. My bitch is about the amount and
the way it's legislated, not about paying them. I'd sure as hell rather pay
taxes for police, fire, ems, etc. than try to deal with that all myself. If
that were the case we wouldn't have a very high level of society since
nobody would have time to run businesses, write great books, make movies,
develop computers, etc. They'd be too damn busy sneaking up on the deer or
shooting/stealing their neighbors food/wife.

> > Can you say 'interstate commerce'?
> 
> What about it?

It's one of the defining characteristics that allow a government to be a
economic factor in the economic system, contrary to the original thesis.

> > Can you say 'mint money'? Can you say 'federal reserve'?
> 
> Can you say government fiat?

Can you say fucked up non-working economy if there isn't some
standardization of monetary systems? I can see it now if folks like you get
your way. When I go to Louisiana I'll need a whole new currency that I can't
trade my Texas money for. Yep, that's an optimal way to run an economy.

> > Can you say 'FDIC'?
> 
> Can you say banking regulation at the point of a gun?

Don't change the subject (again).

> The Soviet Union is a prime recent example.

How?

> British Mercantilism.

How?

> Governments are ultimately bound to economics in the sense of human behavior
> and productivity -- the more they deny the nature of microeconomic actors,
> the quicker they self-destruct.

Economics *is* human behaviour, the science is the tools that we use to
describe what happens *after* the fact and if we're right we might even be
able to make some small usable predictions about what people in a gross
level will do in the future. If you are trying to extend economics to the
extent of trying to predict the micro-economic actions of individuals then
you don't understand macro or micro economics very well.

> History shows that every dynasty well eventually self-destruct, to think
> ours won't is foolish.

Everything self desctructs at one point or another. Besides this issue is
irrelevant and immaterial to whether it is legitimate to consider a
government as an economic partner in a economic system, and whether that
model for government includes aspects normaly thought of as being a
commercial enterprise.

Again, stay on topic.

> My point is we don't have competitive governments per
> se

You are lost in a dream world, all government are competitive. Ask
Clinton, Hussein, Pinochet, Netanyahuh, etc. Why? Because people are
competitive, it's the way biology works.

>, you have a power void that is filled by new government that can be just
> as hostile to those microeconomic actors. All our government failures have
> yet to produce a sustainable government.

It never happens that way. The *only* time you have a power void is when
there are no governments in the first place. Once they are established other
governments and systems move in to take over the territory. It's quite
biological (which shouldn't surprise anyone) in its behaviour. Usualy a
government ceases because another government (whether internal or external
is irrelevant to the point at hand) moves in and destroys the base of the
original government. It might be by force but the fall of the CCCP clearly
indicates that we are seeing governments change their systems radicaly
without the violence, destruction, and death that historicaly such changes
have required. The fall of the CCCP is a watershed event because it
indicates that government systems can in fact change without these effects,
that is a very hopeful sign.

> > False distinction. Politics is about control and power
> 
> The fundamental laws of economics are supply and demand. As soon as you
> through force into the equation, it is no longer economic, it is political.

No, the fundamental law of economics is greed/desire/want/etc. Supply and
demand is how we describe the consequences of the flow of goods and
services.

Now exactly why you're bringing up economics when the issue in this case was
the base motivations of politics smacks of a strawman.

> > in human society that breaks down to force and money.
> 
> The essence of money has no political roots. The essence of money is human
> productivity and trade.

Oh baloney. There are two aspects of organized human society (ie politics).
Self-defence and self-sufficiency. The first requires brute force and the
second requires some mechanism of trade. For a society to get very large at
all *requires* a generalization of the barter system to a symbolic one, that
symbol is money.

> Money is tied to politics currently because it is regulated by force of
> government and the money *supply* is created by government fiat.

First, the money supply was created by a popular vote, not a government fiat
because there was no government to execute the fiat at the time.

Now as to money being tied to politics, see the paragraph above.

> > There you go again, confusing privacy with economics...
> 
> The discussion *was* *privacy*,

No, the discussion was the viability of modeling a government as a economic
entity within the economic system of a geographic region and what that
meant. There was also a side issue relating privacy and freedom to anarchy.

> discussion? Privacy (as opposed to secrecy) is about discretionary
> disclosure of information.

No, that is respect for privacy. Secrecy is the intentional act of hiding
information that one doesn't want others to discover, not the same horse at
all.

> To invade privacy is to remove or prevent that
> discretion.

No, to invade privacy is to disrespect it. Discretion is knowing when to do
it and not get caught.

> There is an economic cost of doing so, and an economic benefit.

Not necessarily. I can invade my childrens privacy and there is no economic
cost or benefit. My neighbor can rifle my mail and there is no cost one way
or the other (unless they steal my paycheck and that's a whole nother
issue). The government could tap my phone and there would be no economic
impact. Privacy does not require the issue of economics to brought into it
until we begin to discuss economic strategies. It is the issue of money that
brings privacy into the discussion and not the other way around.

> Corporations are bound by those economics, whereas government can mandate
> transparency by whim and gun.

No, it is clear that governments are bound by the will of their citizens,
their economy, geography, and their technology. They are not omnipotent.

> > True, but that isn't a function of regulation per se only the 
> > particular type of regulation that we have implimented.
> 
> It is the *nature* of regulation.

No it isn't. I regulate my dogs behavior and don't use force. Football games
are regulated by rules and they aren't imposed by force. The way my company
works is very regulated but there is no force involved.

No, regulation does not automaticaly imply force. Where force comes into
play is when the issue being regulated effects many individuals and some of
those individuals want the benefits but don't want to pay the costs. They
want a free ride at others expense.

> Government is a natural instrument of collective legalized force by any

This is a non-sequetar, governments define legality they are not defined by
it. There isn't some outside agency that defines what a government will do,
it's internal to the government and its participants.

> group that can influence it, and to think it can't and won't be influenced
> denies human nature in regards to power.

Yeah, so. I don't believe this is relevant since we all agree on this. It's
a function of human nature to try to get in a position of special favor so
at least some rules don't apply to you. It's a competitive advantage.

> Every government is despotic by
> nature, force corrupts. 

People are corruptable, governments are simply the framework they create to
express it.

> > No, they don't. It is perfectly legal for an individual to 
> > own a weapon.
> 
> The legal monopoly on the *initiation* of force.

I got news for you dude, I catch you in my truck after dark or running down
the street with my property I'm perfectly within my rights to initiate
force.

> And in fact you have very
> little freedom (eternally diminishing) to obtain potential force (arms) and
> use it in a *reactionary* manner.

You mean in an insiteful manner. You aren't talking about reacting to
something you're veiled comment is to allow yourself for example to buy a
weapon and kill me (for example) simply because you're pissed off about
something. It surprises you that I and others won't give you that freedom?

> You have absolutely *no* freedom to use it
> reactionary against government (which is in the face of the 4th).
 
			       ARTICLE IV. 
 
	The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, 
papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall 
not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, 
supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place 
to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. 
 
That in fact does allow you to shoot somebody if they enter your home
illegaly, even a police officer. If you're being raped and shoot a cop it's
perfectly legal. If he's beating the shit out of you it's perfectly legal to
defend yourself, even to the point of killing the officer.
 
The problem is your not wanting to use it in immediate self-defence, you're
talking about going out and mowing people down simply because your pissed
off at what they stand for and you can't get your way. Your pissed off, like
all anarchist, that you can't take advantage of people with impunity.

A childish and petulant view.

I'm going to stop now since the rest of your email is more of the same.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Scott Loftesness" 
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 12:10:09 +0800
To: "Phillip Hallam-Baker" 
Subject: RE: Digicash bankruptcy
In-Reply-To: <002401be092a$35bb5b20$bf011712@games>
Message-ID: <004d01be0937$e147c160$0300a8c0@sjl4120>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> Phillip Hallam-Baker
> Sent: Thursday, November 05, 1998 6:08 PM
> Subject: RE: Digicash bankruptcy

...

> Finaly I have difficulty regarding Digicash as being all that socially
> responsible. Chaum's problems had a lot to do with the business terms
> he insisted on. What he had was a technology which allowed an improvement
> to a payment system. He imagined he had a monopoly on the only feasible
> solution. He was very baddly mistaken. The monopoly rents he demanded
> were more than the market was willing to pay for a working and deployed
> system - let alone for a patent license.

Where does the "monopoly rents" comment come from?  

In other words, on what basis are you making that statement?

Scott




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 10:15:27 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Who Cares (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811060150.TAA15968@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 11:00:10 -0500
> From: Petro 
> Subject: Re: Who Cares (fwd)

> 	While I won't deny that some of the people who don't vote are in
> the position you claim they are, their not voting has nothing to do with
> their economic position, it has to do with the facts that:

Many of the people are in that situation. Most people don't vote for two
reasons:

1.	It won't significantly effect their lives one way or the other

2.	They don't have time, or at least don't believe they have time.

> 	1) This is a mid-term election. Since it isn't a presidential
> election, fewer really care to research the issues (which are fewer).

Yeah, why? (hint: see 1.)

> 	2) We are currently in decent economic times, and as Terry Pratchet
> noted on Men At Arms, (paraphrasing here) Most people don't really care
> about democrazy, Equal Rights, or any of that, they just want tomorrow to
> be exactly like today.

Then Terry Pratchet is an idiot. People don't want it to stay the same, they
want it to get better. They want more money, a bigger house, better clothes,
a cooler car, etc.

If you and Terry seriously don't believe folks understand democracy (though
they may not act the way you want them to in expressing it) then you should
spend some time talking to people and askign them how much they would take
to get rid of the Constitution, allow cops to wander through their homes at
will, etc.

You're both in for a very rude surprise.

> 	3) As Jimmy notes, there usually isn't much of a difference between
> one canidate and the other (outside of the Natural Law types), and those
> canidates who _are_ different (Libertarians, Socialists &etc. ("reform"
> types don't count, they really are for making tomorrow just like yesterday
> & today, only they ADMIT it for the most part)) either don't get enough
> votes to challenge the status quo, or if there is an issue that will
> challenge the status quo, the number of voters tends to increase (to
> varying degrees).

True, though I'd say the reason that we don't have a more diverse political
venue is because we don't have proportional seating in the various houses.
That was a fundamental fault with the founding fathers, they misunderstood
the homogeneity of peoples view. Of course they didn't have a clue about
television and such causing a global homogeniety. But then again, that is our
cross to bear in living up to 'a more perfect union'.

The one unifying aspect that amazes me about many of you folks on this
mailing list is your complete lack of understanding of your own duty and
responsibilities in this government. You bitch and bitch and yammer about
what's wrong but you have no desire to fix it, your so focused on initiating
violence it's pathetic. When the Constitutuion was written the job was just
begun, it wasn't finished as you seem to imply.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 10:16:49 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Who Cares (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811060151.TAA16014@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 10:49:53 -0500
> From: Petro 
> Subject: Re: Who Cares

> 	The fact that it is meaningful to you means you will never (as long
> as it is meaningful to you) get anywhere as a politician, as you still
> actively beleive that a politican is there to do the will of the people.

Politicians are, unfortunately the problem is the people who becom
politicians.

> 	This can be demonstrated to be a false assumption.

We're waiting....


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "HT1 HOWELL, REESE R-7 X7572  PRD 03/98" 
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 19:47:01 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: is it real? 2
In-Reply-To: <19981104113503.B4836@mail.roava.net>
Message-ID: <199811051303.IAA00882@rps1.cable.navy.mil>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> On Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 09:52:29PM -0800, zERoe wrote:
>>for your info, please.
>>
>>Just in case.......
>>......... basically.... don't install Windows 98 ..... since they have
>>this "added" function.....  =)
--snip--

On or around Wed, 4 Nov 1998 entropi wrote:
> While some of the "information" cited in this post is technically possible, as a
> sys admin at a small start-up ISP, I can guarantee you that at least one ISP in the US is not kissing MS's ass in such a fashion.
--snip--

I do not see where the cooperation of the ISP would be required, unless the 
user had used fictitious or obviously false names and company names (where 
required) for the registration of the programs in question.

I for one, find the claims that M$ is doing this entirely believable, it is 
well within the capability of the program to perform this function without the 
user being aware.

what I want to know is, is it just Win98 that does this, or does Win95 (any 
version) with Ie4 do this also???

Reeza!




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Phillip Hallam-Baker" 
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 10:39:49 +0800
To: "Robert Hettinga" 
Subject: RE: Digicash bankruptcy
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <002401be092a$35bb5b20$bf011712@games>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Phil is right in much of what he says but in a couple of cases he
is wrong.

Regarding the 'vortex of buzz technologies', VRML, network computers
and push are certainly not hot properties at the moment, neither is
interactive TV - but the Web was designed as the antithesis of 
Interactive TV. The root failure of Interactive TV was the assumption
that the world wanted to spend its time passively consuming the dross
pumped out through a 1000 channel 120" TV which would dominate the home.

I would also like to add Java onto the pile. Java today is simply
what C++ should have been. It does not revolutionize the programming
industry, it simply provides what some people think is an object
oriented programming environment and removes some of the worst 
legacy clutter of C.

Cryptographic payment systems are here - in the form of credit card
transactions over SSL. The main problem with SET and its competitors
is that SSL works a little too well.

That is not to say that there is no future for SET. SSL and credit
cards are unlikely to make the leap from the consumer market to the
business to business market. SET provides an ideal platform to 
integrate the use of the credit card infrastructure for business
payments.

The other area where I would disagree is over protocols. HTTP is
quite radically different to FTP in that it is a computer client
to computer server protocol. The metaphor of FTP is rumaging through
a filing cabinet. The HTTP and Web mechanism employs a locator.
Admittedly there was nothing to stop a text mode Web being created
in 1982 but nobody did so.

What is true is that the time taken for Internet technologies to move
to market is very slow. Much of the HTTP technology that just reached 
the market was proposed in '92 and '93. 

Finaly I have difficulty regarding Digicash as being all that socially
responsible. Chaum's problems had a lot to do with the business terms
he insisted on. What he had was a technology which allowed an improvement
to a payment system. He imagined he had a monopoly on the only feasible
solution. He was very baddly mistaken. The monopoly rents he demanded
were more than the market was willing to pay for a working and deployed
system - let alone for a patent license.

		Phill







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 13:43:13 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone (fwd)
Message-ID: <5F152E6E8E6FD21195DF00104B2425AD02B253@yarrowbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




> > > Yes, they are. Can you say 'taxes'?
> > 
> > Imposed by a gun.
> 
> Don't try to change the subject.

I'm not, taxes are a political transaction, I must pay them whether or not I
demand the service or disservice I receive for them -- taxes are not bound
by supply and demand.

> It's one of the defining characteristics that allow a 
> government to be a economic factor in the economic system

It is the defining excuse for the FEDERAL government to interfere with the
economic system.

> > > Can you say 'mint money'? Can you say 'federal reserve'?
> > 
> > Can you say government fiat?
> 
> Can you say fucked up non-working economy if there isn't some
> standardization of monetary systems? I can see it now if 
> folks like you get your way.

Try studying the free banking era of the Mid 1800's, or the international
exchange markets.

> When I go to Louisiana I'll need a whole new 
> currency that I can't trade my Texas money for.

Why can't you trade your Texas money? Who is to prevent you? Who is to
prevent other from meeting the exchange demand? Who it so prevent people
from accepting it in trade? Clearly with the digitization of money, multiple
currencies are not a problem.

> > > Can you say 'FDIC'?
> > 
> > Can you say banking regulation at the point of a gun?
> 
> Don't change the subject (again).

I'm not, the gun is the defining characteristic that makes it political and
not economic.

> > The Soviet Union is a prime recent example.
> 
> How?

Self-destructed command economy that created prices by fiat instead of
obeying market economics.

> > British Mercantilism.
>
> How?

Self-destructed empire (starting with our war of independence) by creating
artificial trade barriers between the colonies to reap artificial profits at
the colonies expense (which was really at the heart of the revolution, not
taxation nor representation).

> Economics *is* human behaviour

Let's expand the definition to the point it has no meaning. No thank you.
Economics is production and trade; human behavior affects trade, it is not
economics.

> If you are trying to extend economics to the
> extent of trying to predict the micro-economic actions of 
> individuals then you don't understand macro or micro 
> economics very well.

You can predict the actions of groups of individuals if you understand the
nature of individuals. Predicting an individual is left to the soothsayers.

> No, the fundamental law of economics is 
> greed/desire/want/etc.

Okay, you take your laws of greed/want/desire and figure out how to sustain
life.

> Self-defence and self-sufficiency. The first requires brute 
> force and the second requires some mechanism of trade.

No, self-sufficiency by its definition means you are...well...sufficient by
yourself. If you require trade, you are no longer self-sufficient.

> symbol is money.

Money either has intrinsic value, or it is a symbol and debt against
something held of value, or it is a debt on the future acquisition of value
produced by someone else -- i.e. future productivity.

> First, the money supply was created by a popular vote, not a 
> government fiat

Oh, please do tell when/where this popular vote took place.

We've moved from intrinsic value currency to a currency representing hard
value (gold) to something that represents nothing more than faith of
government, and whose supply is controlled by fiat of a *private*
institution -- the Federal Reserve Board.

> > discussion? Privacy (as opposed to secrecy) is about discretionary
> > disclosure of information.

Discretion by you of the disclosure by you of information about you. Make
sense?

The other type of privacy, somehow preventing other people from disclosing
information about you by means other than mutual agreement is privacy of the
statist type.

> > There is an economic cost of doing so, and an economic benefit.
> 
> The government could tap my phone and there would be 
> no economic impact.

No cost, eh? I suggest you take a look at the congressional allocations for
FBI wiretapping capabilities.

> No, regulation does not automaticaly imply force.

Correct -- in fact the only regulations by private individuals/entities that
*do* have force behind them is that of the custodian/dependent relationship,
and they are limited. But find a government regulation that does not have
the confiscation of your property (by force) and/or incarceration of your
person (by force) as the absolute finality to non-compliance. They are few.

> Yeah, so. I don't believe this is relevant since we all agree 
> on this.

Oh, I forgot if you agree it irrelevant because you are simply being
entirely combative.

> I got news for you dude, I catch you in my truck after dark 
> or running down the street with my property I'm perfectly 
> within my rights to initiate force.

But you are not the initiator, you are reacting to my initiation of a force
(or derivative), in this case trespass and theft.

> You mean in an insiteful manner. You aren't talking 
> about reacting to something you're veiled comment is 

No, force in reaction to force. That is plainly simple.

> > You have absolutely *no* freedom to use it
> > reactionary against government (which is in the face of the 4th).

Brain fart, the 2nd. The right to bears arms has historically implied the
right to bear arms in defense against a despot.

	Matt





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 05:49:49 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: TEMPEST laptops
Message-ID: <199811052109.WAA21423@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 09:45 PM 11/4/98 -0800, Tim May wrote:
>>The other question is how hard, given a _specific_ machine would it be to
>>create a "RF" jammer? Sort of an active defense versus the passive defense
>>of a Tempest sheild. build a device that measures the RF coming off a

Well dang Tim, if you're gonna work inside a Faraday cage you
may as well run a Tesla coil outside it... 


--Lace Aliens Slide on my Rugs










  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Narayan Raghu 
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 13:26:02 +0800
To: Bill Stewart 
Subject: Re: new 448 bit key by Indian firm
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3641D5F0.8DFAE64C@geocities.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Bill Stewart wrote:
> 
> At 03:43 AM 11/3/98 +0530, Narayan Raghu wrote:
> >            Indian firm unveils 448-bit encryption
> 
> 448 bits sounds a lot like MD5-based encryption - perhaps Luby-Rackoff
> or MDC?
> Or a homegrown system, doing successive MD5s or something?
> MD5 is no longer the safest hash these days....
> 
>                                 Thanks!
>                                         Bill

Nopes.

It's an  implementation of blowfish.

you might get some info at www.signotron.com
the guy at the fair claimed that it's the strongest existing
implementation of cryptography available in the world to date .. and he
was no "sales" guy - seemed technical enough ... 

what this s/w seems to be doing is that it gets into ur windows OS,
(works ONLY on windows) and everytime you "save" a file, it captures it,
encrypts it, and stores it .. so nothing on your disc is ever left
unencrypted.

ofcourse there must be a lot of such packages in the US .. but the
novelty here, according to this guy was that it was developed outside
the US, and it's price (USD 40) ....


rgds
nar




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 06:06:15 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199811052119.WAA22172@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



:: 
Subject: more on Dore's discovery of intelligence (satellite 415)


http://www.enterprisemission.com/images/auscnfrm.jpg
http://www.lunaranomalies.com/update2.htm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_203000/203133.stm









  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Phillip Hallam-Baker" 
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 12:15:36 +0800
To: 
Subject: RE: Digicash bankruptcy
In-Reply-To: <004d01be0937$e147c160$0300a8c0@sjl4120>
Message-ID: <002701be0939$b34ce720$bf011712@games>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





> > Finaly I have difficulty regarding Digicash as being all that socially
> > responsible. Chaum's problems had a lot to do with the business terms
> > he insisted on. What he had was a technology which allowed an 
> improvement
> > to a payment system. He imagined he had a monopoly on the only feasible
> > solution. He was very baddly mistaken. The monopoly rents he demanded
> > were more than the market was willing to pay for a working and deployed
> > system - let alone for a patent license.
> 
> Where does the "monopoly rents" comment come from?  
> 
> In other words, on what basis are you making that statement?

Chaum's reported demands for patent licensing fees were consistently
above 10-20% of the service revenue plus a significant up front fee.
Those levels are more usually associate with a monopolistic patent,
hence 'monopoly rent'.

The fact that Chaum didn't have the monopoly he appeared to imagine
is probably why nobody was queuing up to pay his demands.


		Phill





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 12:51:29 +0800
To: Phil Agre 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


From: "Thomas Junker" 
To: dbs@philodox.com
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 21:32:24 -0600
MIME-Version: 1.0
Subject: Re: FYI:  Digicash bankruptcy
Reply-to: Thomas Junker 
Priority: normal
Sender: 
Precedence: Bulk
List-Subscribe: 
X-Web-Archive: http://www.philodox.com/dbs-archive/

On 5 Nov 98, at 14:32, Nahum Goldmann quoted Phil Agre as having writ:

> [With the bankruptcy of Digicash, it is time to assemble the definitive
> list of underperforming Internet technologies.  The received wisdom is
> that the Internet lies at the vortex of a historically unprecedented era
> of intensive and disruptive technological change.  A sober reading of the
> evidence, however, supports something much closer to the opposite thesis,
> viz, the Internet is a modest and useful new tool that, despite itself,
> has given rise to an astonishingly wasteful mania whereby perfectly good
> capital is plowed into one ill-conceived technology after another.

Is Agre a friend of Metcalfe?  One wrings his hands over what other people
choose to risk their money on in Internet technology development and the other
solemnly predicts that the Internet will implode.  If those two guys ever get
together, the ambient lumens will dim for miles around.  NRO will be
repositioning satellites to check out the grey hole of pessimism laying like a
blanket over their meeting place.

> So right now would be an excellent time
> for us to renounce the false idea that we are living in a time of
> unprecedented technical change.

Yeah, right.  Listen to this guy and die.  That's his message.

> ...it is running behind the penetration rates that
> earlier technologies such as the radio and gas cooking achieved once they
> started being adopted on a mass scale...

Had this guy been commenting back then, he would no doubt have been wringing
his hands over all the silly things being done with radio and all the failed
ideas and ventures.  Checking out those future-fantasy clips from the '50's is
instructive... I *still* don't have a kitchen or bathroom as spiffy as what
they were telling everyone they would have a few short years -- I don't have a
constant-temperature shower or cleverly designed foldaway shelves, tables,
trays and ironing boards hidden in every nook and cranny of the kitchen.  In
fact, looking at one of those on video got me in the mood to go back 40 years
so I could look forward to having those neat things.

More importantly, though, as great as the utility of radio has been in many
areas, it has mostly been a one-way incoming pipe for the average person.  Its
greatest utility value in that mode has probably been news delivery, but that
is highly overrated.  If you tune out the news in all forms for two weeks, you
will be a lot less stressed and realize that, by and large, what makes the
news doesn't care a whit about you, and if you con't care a whit about the
news, no pieces of the sky fall in.  If radio hadn't been regulated as badly
and suffocatingly as it was, and if people without propellors on their heads
could have used it to communicate with friends and associates over long
distances instead of waiting for telephone operators to call them back to tell
them a trunk had become available for their annual long distance call to
Mamain Toledo, perhaps radio would have had a hugely greater impact than it
did.  Radio came, radio was monopolized, and it became just another flavor of
newspaper or magazine.

Now gas, there's a revolutionary development!  Convenient, yes.
Revolutionary, no.  Were we able to cook before gas?  Were we able to heat
before gas?  Did gas mean that Father no longer had to trek to an office or
factory to earn his living?  Were we suddenly able to shuttle business
documents back and forth between Passaic, New Jersey and Jakarta at zero
incremental cost? Did gas perhaps enable millions of people to shift their
modes of work and cut the ties with fixed offices?  Maybe gas enabled
multimedia communication, as in Smell-o-Vision?  Geez!  So it was convenient.
So lots of people rushed out and utilized it in a short time.  So?  What did
it change?  It may have made some industrial processes cheaper or more
feasible.  It made some very uninteresting aspects of life less time and
attention consuming.  

> Internet protocols that we use today are unchanged in their essentials
> from about 1982.

Isn't that like denigrating all of wheeled transport by pointing out that gee,
the wheels we use today are unchanged in their essentials from about 4000 B.C.
(or whenever)?  And your point is...?

> In fact, once the real history of this era is written, I
> think that 1982 will shape up as the true annus mirabilis, and 1994 will
> simply be seen as the era when the innovations of ten to fifteen years
> earlier finally caught public attention and reached the price point that
> was needed to achieve the network externalities required for its large-
> scale adoption.

Can you spell M-O-S-A-I-C?

> If we get out the rake and drag away all of the detritus
> of the underperforming technologies that I listed above, and compare our
> times on an apples-for-apples basis with other periods of technological
> innovation -- including the Depression era, for heaven's sake -- then I
> think we will have a much healthier perspective going forward.

Yes indeedy, that's what we should all do when we need a lift -- drag out
Dad's or Grandpa's Depression scrapbook and get some *real* perspective!
That'll drive out that pesky optimism and make us thankful for not having to
run down the road chasing the family farm as it blows away in the wind.
Yessirree, those pics of Uncle Dwork selling apples will straighten us right
up and dispel those silly fantasies of interconnecting the world, working from
Tahiti, or making a killing with a killer Internet app.  There oughta be a
law!  It should be illegal to offend good, pessimistic outlooks by running
around in circles showering ideas and developments like sparks.

> As it is,
> people the world over have been propagandized into a state of panic, one
> that encourages them to abandon all of their experience and common sense
> and buy lots of computer equipment so that they will not be scorned by
> their children and left behind by the apocalypse

Where does this guy *get* this stuff?  How many people do we *know* who fit
this description, hmmm?  Even one?  Well, OK, but Aunt Mabel doesn't count --
she invested in bull semen, too, though we all thought she did it with just a
tad too much enthusiasm.

> The sad line-up of underperforming technologies should be
> understood not as serious attempts at innovation but as a kind of ritual,
> an expensive and counterproductive substitute for the chants and dances
> that healthy societies perform when they are placed under stress.  Maybe
> once we get some healthy rituals for contending with technological change
> ourselves, we will be able to snap out of our trance, cast off the
> ridiculous hopes and fears of an artificially induced millennium, and take
> up the serious work of discussing, organizing, and contesting the major
> choices about our institutions that lie ahead.]

Oh, geez, I can hear this now, around 1725 or 1750... people in England and on
the continent, naysaying the wild and wooly schemes and hopes for opportunity
and fortune in the new world.  It must be part of the curse of the human
condition that we have to have gloomy people like this hanging on the
coattails of invention, being dragged kicking and screaming into a future they
cannot avoid no matter *how* loudly they complain.

Regards,

Thomas Junker
tjunker@phoenix.net

http://www.phoenix.net/~tjunker/wang.html
The Unofficial Wang VS Information Center

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 07:46:45 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Euro-Telecoms Standards gives access to GSM & other specs
Message-ID: <199811052322.XAA02881@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Someone pointed out this information to me.  

The European Telecommunications Standards Institute (ETSI) have
granted access to allow everyone, not just members, to their
specifications.  These include the GSM specs. Start here:

    http://webapp.etsi.org/publicationssearch/

Adam




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 08:43:16 +0800
To: bill.stewart@pobox.com
Subject: Re: new 448 bit key by Indian firm
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981104234056.008b6880@idiom.com>
Message-ID: <199811052342.XAA03335@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Bill Stewart writes:
> 448 bits sounds a lot like MD5-based encryption - perhaps
> Luby-Rackoff or MDC?  Or a homegrown system, doing successive MD5s
> or something?  MD5 is no longer the safest hash these days....

More likely Blowfish for two reasons i) the article mentioned blowfish
at the bottom (;-), and ii) blowfish keys can be up to 448 bits.

Could be snake oil, or could be result of letting marketroid near
press release.  The press release was very confused in general.

Adam




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Frantz 
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 16:54:13 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: TEMPEST laptops
In-Reply-To: <199811052109.WAA21423@replay.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Not exactly a laptop thing, but it occurs to me that you might be able to
get destructive interference of the signal waves from a monitor by running
two monitors, and sending inverse signals to each.  If we assume the signal
is 100MHz, that means a wavelength of 3 meters.  You probably need small
monitors close together.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz       | Macintosh: Didn't do every-| Periwinkle -- Consulting
(408)356-8506     | thing right, but did know  | 16345 Englewood Ave.
frantz@netcom.com | the century would end.     | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: x 
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 16:57:09 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Netscape inside scoop on "Smart Browsing"
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19981106004101.0071a044@shell15.ba.best.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Natrificial's "Brain" product did the same thing, silently, or at least via
a nonobvious option setting that was not explicitly documented.  The
transmittal of all your URL's to the mother ship was how they would inform
you that you were hitting a page specially enabled for their S/W.  Totally
unnecessary, as the page, if so enabled, would be perfectly capable of
notifying the browser with the addition of a trivial plugin, e.g. or other
thing.  I raised the issue of disclosing this kind of thing and got the
usual "we're technology users too and we'd NEVER do anything with that
information..." response, like it's no big deal.  I stopped using and
recommending the product, even though it looked like with the proper option
setting I would no longer be reporting my bizarre habits to Natrificial.

This shit's outta hand .....




>> * IS SMART BROWSING REALLY SO SMART?
>> (contributed by Mark Joseph Edwards, http://www.ntsecurity.net)
>> Many of you are aware of Netscape's new versions of its Navigator Web
>> browser. But do you also know that, starting with version 4.06, the
>> product's Smart Browsing feature can report to Netscape every Web page
>> you visit, including addresses to private sites on your internal
>> network? And are you aware that when you download a secure version of
>> Netscape's browser, the process places a cookie on your system that can
... etc ...
>>
>
>Rick Desautels
>Sr. Systems Engineer
>Rival Computer Solutions
>rivalcs@ma.ultranet.com
>
>
>--
>To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to majordomo@blu.org
>with the following text in the *body* (*not* the subject line) of the letter:
>unsubscribe isig
>
>--- end forwarded text
>
>
>-----------------
>Robert A. Hettinga 
>Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
>44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
>"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
>[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
>experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
>
>
>




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 08:24:19 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Holloween II: Microsoft Plugs Linux
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199811052356.AAA03329@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



If you liked Eric's halloween.html, you'll this one too -- chock full
of hilarious Microsoft misunderstandings about Linux.

  > http://www.opensource.org/halloween2.html is a more extensive...
  > internal analysis of Linux by Microsoft.

Naughty boy, Robert -- now you've made me get coffee all over my
keyboard:

  "The GCC and PERL language compilers are often provided for free
   with all versions of Linux...
   By the standards of the ... developer accustomed to VB [Visual
   Basic], these tools are incredibly primitive."

ROTFL!  This is obviously a hitherto unknown meaning for the word
"primitive".

OTOH, Vinod and Josh summarise things pretty well.
Well worth reading (but read halloween.html first).




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 08:23:20 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199811052358.AAA03470@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



24 shots came from 1 officer in Oregon case

Policeman fired until gun empty, then reloaded and kept firing

By BOB SABLATURA
Copyright 1998 Houston Chronicle

One of the officers nobilled in the death of Pedro Oregon Navarro fired his semiautomatic pistol at the 22-year-old man until the
magazine was empty, then reloaded and continued firing. 

In all, Officer David R. Barrera fired 24 of the 33 shots discharged in Oregon's southwest Houston apartment July 12, according to
sources familiar with the investigation. 

Assistant District Attorney Ed Porter confirmed that Barrera fired most of the shots. While the medical examiner's office could not
determine the exact caliber of the bullets that made the 12 wounds in Oregon's body, Porter said, three of the four bullets recovered
from the body were fired from Barrera's weapon. 

Porter, who was present on the scene a few hours after the shooting -- and reconstructed it during a walk-through with the officers
involved -- suggested that the bullets that struck Oregon may have been some of the last shots that the officers fired. 

"I strongly suspect that was the case," Porter said. 

Richard Mithoff, an attorney representing Oregon's family, said it is "incomprehensible" that one of the officers paused to reload his
weapon. 

"They had no grounds to be in the apartment, and no grounds to open fire," Mithoff said. "And if this is true, there certainly was no
grounds to reload and execute this guy lying on the ground." 

Aaron Ruby, a member of the Justice for Pedro Oregon Coalition, said Barrera's actions could only be termed "homicidal and
premeditated," and probably explain the numerous bullet holes in Oregon's back. 

"If that fact was known to the grand jury, it makes their actions all the more outrageous," Ruby said. "I believe the people of Houston
will be stunned when they learn of this." 

Harris County District Attorney John B. Holmes Jr. said state law allows police officers to use deadly force if they believe it
necessary for self-defense and can continue shooting "so long as they reasonably perceive" the threat continues. 

"An analogy I use is that if it is OK to kill a guy dead, it is OK to kill him dead, dead, dead," Holmes said. 

Holmes said it is also not uncommon for a police officer involved in a shooting to have no idea how many shots he fired. 

Barrera, a five-year veteran of the Houston Police Department, was armed with a 9 mm Sig-Sauer semi-automatic pistol loaded with
nylon-coated bullets. 

According to the Police Department, after illegally entering Oregon's apartment with fellow members of the HPD gang task force in
an unsuccessful search for drugs, Barrera and several other officers chased Oregon to his bedroom and kicked in the locked door.
During the pursuit, Barrera's pistol discharged, striking one of his partners in the shoulder. 

The officers said they believed they were being shot at, and two officers joined Barrera in firing at Oregon. 

Barrera emptied his pistol, paused to reload a new magazine, and resumed firing, according to prosecutors. 

Investigators later determined that Barrera fired a total of 24 rounds. 

Barrera's weapon was originally loaded with a standard 16-round magazine, which held at least 14 rounds. He reloaded with an
extended magazine holding even more rounds. The second magazine was not emptied, according to sources. 

Officers David R. Perkins and Pete A. Herrada fired a total of nine rounds between them. Both officers were armed with similar
.40-caliber handguns. Perkins carried a Sig-Sauer Model 40 and Herrada was armed with a Glock Model 23. 

Prosecutors said only about 10 seconds elapsed from the time the shooting began to the time it ended. 

Semi-automatic pistols typically are double-action on the first shot, meaning that pulling the trigger draws the hammer back --
cocking it -- and then releases it. 

After the first shot, the hammer remains in a cocked position so less trigger-tension is required to fire the weapon, making it fire
quicker. The officer can also aim the gun more accurately because it takes less movement of the trigger to discharge shots. 

Oregon's body was hit 12 times, nine times in the back, once in the back of the shoulder, and once in the back of his left hand. In
addition, one shot entered the top of his head, exiting above the right ear. 

At least nine shots entered his body at a downward angle, suggesting he was shot while face-down on the floor. Four bullets were
recovered from Oregon's body, and numerous bullet fragments were found underneath the carpet beneath the body. 

The body was face-down, with his head toward the doorway through which the police officers were firing. 

Attorneys for the Oregon family dispute the police officers' version of events, and say Oregon was not in the front of the apartment
when police illegally barged in. 

"It is my understanding that he was in the bedroom," Mithoff said. 

They also contend that some of the officers' shots were fired through the bedroom wall, indicating they were blindly firing into the
room. 

Porter said he has examined numerous crime scenes involving police shootings during his career and is amazed just how often shots
fired by police officers miss their mark. 

"Most people think an officer fires a weapon and someone gets shot," Porter said. "Often that is just not the case." 

Holmes said the grand jury heard evidence regarding all the shots fired, the trajectory of the bullets, the position of the officers and
the medical examiner's reports regarding wounds to Oregon's body. 

"The specific number of times and the path of the projectiles was known to the grand jury," Holmes said. 

After hearing all the evidence, a grand jury cleared five of the six officers -- including Barrera -- of all charges. One officer was
charged with a misdemeanor offense of criminal trespass. 

Earlier this week, all six officers were fired by Chief C.O. Bradford for violating the law and ignoring department procedures. 

Barrera's attorney did not respond to a request for an interview. 

Rick Dovalina, national president of LULAC, said he is especially concerned that HPD Internal Affairs found the officers had
violated the law in conducting the raid, but the grand jury had brought no charges. 

He renewed his call for Holmes to try to bring charges against the officers. 

"They are both supposed to be looking at the same evidence," Dovalina said. "Johnny Holmes needs to do the right thing and present
the case to another grand jury." 



Posted for the entertainment of those that chide Tim for being armed to the teeth.

Regards,
TimeToBuyAGun
        




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 13:54:43 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Holloween II: Microsoft Plugs Linux
In-Reply-To: <003f01be092a$5ee1b800$692856cf@frohike.novita.com>
Message-ID: <199811060531.GAA00781@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>>>>> Mark Lanett  writes:

  >> By the standards of the novice / intermediate developer
  >> accustomed to VB/VS/VC/VJ, these tools are incredibly
  >> primitive.

  > Which is completely correct...

Perhaps I missed the part of Visual Basic that was supposed to be
"incredibly" less "primitive" than GCC and PERL.

Unfortunately, I have to actually *use* VB5 for my employer (who will
remain nameless, other than to say that they're one of the world's
largest electronics manufacturers, and firmly in bed with Micro$oft).

So far as I have been able to discern, its only advantage is the
ability to prototype screens quickly.  When it comes to actually
*debugging*, any reasonably large program causes enough system crashes
that you've got to try to build mini test environments to test out
individual pieces.  (Yup, it's exactly as good a programming
environment as M$ Word is a desktop publishing environment.)

Sure, GCC is just a compiler.  But my combination of GCC, DDD, and
XEmacs provide a development environment that is more powerful than
any of Microsoft's products, as easy to use, and is just as "mouse-
friendly".  (Hell, I use GCC instead of VC for NT code, too.)

Maybe I've been out of the "novice" stage for too long to understand
the attraction of VB.  But the other hardware engineers (certainly
novice programmers) in this group won't touch it except at gunpoint
either.  But its use -- like that of NT itself -- has been mandated
from above by beancounters and IT managers.

-- CurmudgeonMonger




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Blanc" 
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 23:25:26 +0800
To: 
Subject: RE: Holloween II: Microsoft Plugs Linux
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <000d01be0992$d5438600$598195cf@blanc>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I thought the name Vinod Vallopillil was familiar as of someone who was on
cpunks for a while, in 1995.   If my memory serves me well, I think it was him
who for a while he had this idea of putting together some learning
lectures/sessions locally on economics.   I expressed interest, but then he left
for school again (he was an intern at MS at the time).   I checked the archives
for his name, and found some of his posts on "credit card conventional wisdom".
This is what was on his sig in a 1995:

LibertarianismTelecommunicationsFreeMarketEnvi
 ronmentalismTechnologyCryptographyElectronicCa
 shInteractiveTelevisionEconomicsPhilosophyDigi
 talPrivacyAnarchoCapitalismRuggedIndividualism

   ..
Blanc




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 21:37:06 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Nov. 8 column - stop and search
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Resent-Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 00:44:48 -0700
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 23:42:03 -0800 (PST)
X-Sender: vin@dali.lvrj.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
To: vinsends@ezlink.com
From: Vin_Suprynowicz@lvrj.com (Vin Suprynowicz)
Subject: Nov. 8 column - stop and search
Resent-From: vinsends@ezlink.com
X-Mailing-List:  archive/latest/585
X-Loop: vinsends@ezlink.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vinsends-request@ezlink.com


    FROM MOUNTAIN MEDIA
    FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE DATED NOV. 8, 1998
    THE LIBERTARIAN, By Vin Suprynowicz
    To enhance officer safety and convenience

    Fortunately, even the most traditionally "law-and-order" members of the
U.S. Supreme Court seemed both surprised and skeptical Tuesday when
confronted with the broad discretion which Iowa now grants its police to
search drivers pulled over for routine traffic violations ... even without
any "probable cause" to believe a further crime has been committed.

  Appellant Patrick Knowles was stopped for speeding on March 6, 1996, in
Newton, Iowa. An officer gave Knowles a speeding ticket and then informed
him he had a right to search Knowles and his cart, which the cop proceeded
to do.

  The search turned up a pipe and a small quantity of marijuana, which Iowa
courts allowed to be used as evidence. Knowles was convicted and sentenced
to 90 days in jail, but is now appealing based on the Constitution's Fourth
Amendment protection against unreasonable searches.

  "If somebody jaywalks, the police could search them?" asked Justice John
Paul Stevens.

  "Correct," explained Iowa Assistant Attorney General Bridget A. Chambers.

  Justice Antonin Scalia then asked Ms. Chambers whether an officer could
stop someone, arrest and search them, and then drop the arrest. Yes, she
said.

  "Wow," the justice responded.

  The record of the initial court case reveals that arresting Officer
Ronald Cook was "disarmingly candid" on the subject of probable cause, in
the phrase of long-term court watcher James J. Kilpatrick.

  "Anything you observed lead you to believe or give you probable cause to
believe that he was involved in criminal activity?" the officer was asked.

  "Not on this date, no," he responded.

 "It was your understanding that simply because you had issued him a
citation that that gave you the right to search him and his vehicle?"

  "Yes, ma'am."

  About 400,000 people are given traffic tickets each year in Iowa,
Knowles' lawyer, Paul Rosenberg, told the high court Tuesday. But police
invoke their authority to conduct searches only selectively, since if
everyone given a traffic ticket were searched, "the people wouldn't stand
for it."

  Chief Justice William H. Rehnquist reminded the parties that police
already have authority to conduct a search following an arrest, to protect
their own safety and to preserve evidence.

  But regarding a need to preserve evidence, the chief justice added, "When
you have a traffic stop, you're not going to find any more evidence of
speeding when you search a person's car."

  The Supreme Court's 1973 decision allows police to conduct a "search
incident to arrest," noted Justice Anthony M. Kennedy. But "You want to
turn it around and have an arrest incident to search. ... It seems to me
that would be an abuse of authority."

  "It does seem an enormous amount of authority to put into the hands of
the police," agreed Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg.

  Regular observers of the court warn us not to draw too many conclusions
from the jurists' questions alone -- the justices have been known to play
devil's advocate, challenging the position of a party whose side they
actually intend to favor, in order to better develop their own arguments.

  But this sounds like a case where the court's astonishment over Iowa's
brazen defiance of the Constitutional ban on "unreasonable" and warrantless
searches was no sham.

  The notion that we should not object to government agents stopping and
frisking any passer-by since "It's for the protection of everyone" and "The
innocent have nothing to fear," is the next-to-last stop on the one-way
trainride to tyranny.

  Yes, such measures appear to make the policeman's lot a bit easier, in
the short run. But once the populace begin to see these officers not as
friendly keepers of the peace and protectors of our liberties, but rather
as a hostile occupying army, patting us down and muscling through our
belongings at will, that could quickly change.

  As the Hessians learned in 1776.

  The high court is expected to rule in the case of Mr. Knowles by July.
Let us hope the Supremes set a firm high water mark for this particular
tide of tyranny, and begin to roll it back. Cops deserve our praise and
support when they undertake the dangerous job of chasing down violent thugs
and felons -- but not when they turn to rummaging through our pockets, our
glove compartments, and our sock drawers.


Vin Suprynowicz is the assistant editorial page editor of the Las Vegas
Review-Journal. Readers may contact him via e-mail at vin@lvrj.com. The web
sites for the Suprynowicz column are at
http://www.infomagic.com/liberty/vinyard.htm, and
http://www.nguworld.com/vindex/. The column is syndicated in the United
States and Canada via Mountain Media Syndications, P.O. Box 4422, Las Vegas
Nev. 89127.

***


Vin Suprynowicz,   vin@lvrj.com

The evils of tyranny are rarely seen but by him who resists it. -- John
Hay, 1872

The most difficult struggle of all is the one within ourselves. Let us not
get accustomed and adjusted to these conditions. The one who adjusts ceases
to discriminate between good and evil.  He becomes a slave in body and
soul. Whatever may happen to you, remember always: Don't adjust! Revolt
against the reality! -- Mordechai Anielewicz, Warsaw, 1943

* * *

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 21:41:48 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 6.16: Using Credit Reports Crooks Assume YourIdentity & Buy Luxury Cars
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Delivered-To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
From: "ama-gi ISPI" 
To: 
Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 6.16: Using Credit Reports Crooks Assume Your
Identity & Buy Luxury Cars
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 00:26:20 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3
Sender: owner-ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
Precedence: list
Reply-To: "ama-gi ISPI" 

ISPI Clips 6.16: Using Credit Reports Crooks Assume Your Identity & Buy
Luxury Cars
News & Info from the Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI)
Friday November 6, 1998
ISPI4Privacy@ama-gi.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This From: The Las Angeles Times, Friday, October 23, 1998
http://www.latimes.com

Grand Theft Auto Enters the Computer Age
http://www.latimes.com/HOME/NEWS/LIFE/AUTO/AUTONEWS/t000096175.html

    Crime: Hackers are using cyberspace to obtain credit information
    and purchase luxury vehicles under assumed identities.

By
SCOTT GLOVER,
Times Staff Writer

In a new twist on an old crime, computer-savvy thieves have begun hacking
into credit files and fabricating drivers' licenses, then walking into car
dealerships and buying luxury cars under assumed identities, authorities
said.

After putting about $10,000 down for a new $120,000 Mercedes-Benz,
authorities say, the thief then drives off the lot, leaving behind a
commission-happy salesperson. Within a week, they say, the car will most
likely be in a container bound for resale on foreign shores.

"The problem is growing on a monthly basis," said John Bryan, a Los Angeles
County sheriff's captain who runs a regional anti-car-theft unit.

Bryan estimated that members of his Taskforce for Regional Autotheft
Prevention, or TRAP, arrested about 60 people in 1997 who were running such
scams.

One of last year's victims was Los Angeles County Supervisor Yvonne
Brathwaite Burke and her husband, William.

In her case, Burke said a con artist took her name from the newspaper and
paid a Georgia jeweler to run a credit check on her to obtain more
information. She said the man then obtained a driver's license in William
Burke's name and went on a spending spree.

Using the Burkes' credit information, the man bought four Yamaha WaveRunner
personal water vehicles and a BMW and tried to purchase a Mercedes-Benz and
Ford Thunderbird.

"We were getting bills in the mail every day," Burke said. "It was driving
me crazy."

She said the man was finally caught when he brought the BMW back to the
dealership to have a trailer hitch installed so he could pull the
WaveRunner behind the car.

In another case last year, authorities said a man established a dummy real
estate company to obtain personal credit histories, then used the
information to make more than $1 million in fraudulent purchases, including
several cars.

Bryan said another scam involved fraudulent applications for car purchases
at a San Gabriel Valley dealership. In that case, investigators seized
eight cars and believe as many as 40 more were purchased and illegally
sold.

The thieves generally don't shop for bargains either, Bryan said.

"They go for Mercedeses, BMWs, Lexuses, you name it."

Bryan said the thieves are typically well-dressed--sometimes even in
suits--and have a calm demeanor as they "shop" for a car.

"They walk in there looking like they can afford it," he said. "They know
what they're doing."

Bryan said the average price of a stolen car is about $60,000, and that
most of those who have been arrested are suspected of stealing numerous
cars.

The thieves usually make tens of thousands of dollars' profit on a single
sale.

Because cases are time-consuming and difficult to prove, Bryan said, an
offender is often charged with only one theft.

The crimes could result in several charges, including grand theft auto and
credit card fraud, punishable by a minimum of three years in prison,
according to a spokesman for the district attorney's office.

Popular markets for the stolen vehicles include China, numerous republics
of the former Soviet Union and the United Arab Emirates, police said.

People who have had their identities stolen and used to purchase the cars
are not liable, Bryan said.

Burke said, even though she was in a position to put pressure on
authorities to solve the case, she spent months trying to clean up her
credit.

"It was a nightmare," she said. "And it could happen to anybody."

Copyright 1998 Los Angeles Times.


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--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 21:31:42 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: My first order of Business              (http://www.jesseventura.org/bbs/messages/3052.html) (fwd)
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Date:         Fri, 6 Nov 1998 06:56:20 -0500
Reply-To: Law & Policy of Computer Communications
              
Sender: Law & Policy of Computer Communications
              
From: Robbin Stewart 
Subject:      My first order of Business
              (http://www.jesseventura.org/bbs/messages/3052.html) (fwd)
Comments: To: robbin stewart 
To: CYBERIA-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM

It appears that we've found a solution to spam. Somebody sent
"make money fast" type post to Jesse's web-based bulliten board and got
the following response.

Forwarded message:
> Subject: My first order of Business
>(http://www.jesseventura.org/bbs/messages/3052.html)
>
> My first order of Business
>
>
> [ Follow Ups ] [ Post Followup ] [ jesseventura Message Board ]
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> -------
>
> Posted by Jesse Ventura on November 06, 1998 at 02:03:38:
>
> In Reply to: $$ posted by $$ on November 06, 1998 at 01:05:44:
>
> Is to rid the internet of spammers like this JERK. By the way we have =
> your IP and your interner provider will be contacted, enjoy your 6X9 =
> cell.=20
>

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 21:32:28 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: RSA Seeks Nominees for Awards & $10K Honors 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


X-Sender: vin@shell1.shore.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 01:27:20 -0500
To: "John Young" , "Dave Farber" 
From: Vin McLellan 
Subject: RSA Seeks Nominees for Awards & $10K Honors 
Cc: cryptography@c2.net
Sender: bounce-dcsb@ai.mit.edu
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: Vin McLellan 

	

	RSA Data Security  invites industry and political
activists, netizens, and scholars to nominate individuals who should be
honored for their "outstanding contributions" to the field of cryptography.

	RSADSI annually awards three US$10,000 prizes to innovators and
leaders in the fields of Mathematics, Public Policy, and Industry. The
final selection is by a panel of academic and industry experts, but the
nomination process is open to all. Nominations for the 1999 Awards can be
made directly at  anytime before 12/4/98.

	"The RSA Award in Mathematics recognizes innovation and ongoing
contributions to the field of cryptography.  The Committee seeks to reward
nominees who are pioneers in their field, and whose work has applied
value." Nominees should be affiliated with universities or research labs.

	The 1998 winner of the RSA Math Award was Dr. Shafrira Goldwasser,
who was also named to the RSA Professorship at MIT last year. Prof.
Goldwasser's pioneering work in number theory, complexity, and cryptography
has also won MIT's Grace Murray Hopper Award and the first Godel Prize.

	Congressman Bob Goodlatte (R-VA) -- primary sponsor of HR 696, the
Security and Freedom Thru Encryption (SAFE) Act -- was the 1998 winner of
the RSA Public Policy Award. This prize seeks to honor elected or appointed
officials, or activists associated with public interest groups, who have
made a "significant contribution" to the American policy debate about
cryptography over the previous calendar year.

	The RSA Award for Industry seeks to honor individuals or
organizations which have made outstanding contributions in commercial
applications of crypto -- "particularly those that provide clear value to
the end users" -- and demonstrated "ongoing innovation in their technology
and products."

	The 1998 winner was Netscape, source of SSL and a steady steam of
clever innovations for the denizens of the web. Taher ElGamal accepted for
Netscape.

	The three winners for 1999 will be announced at the 1999 RSA Data
Security Conference, which (having outgrown Nob Hill, to the regret of
many) is being held in San Jose, January 17-21. See:



-----
      Vin McLellan + The Privacy Guild + 
  53 Nichols St., Chelsea, MA 02150 USA <617> 884-5548
                         -- <@><@> --



For help on using this list (especially unsubscribing), send a message to
"dcsb-request@ai.mit.edu" with one line of text: "help".

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 21:47:48 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: ISPs now responsible for Pirated Material
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


X-Authentication-Warning: lpma.la-ma.org: majordom set sender to
owner-general@la-ma.org using -f
X-Sender: dkrick@pobox3.bbn.com
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 07:29:38 -0500
To: general@la-ma.org
From: Doug Krick 
Subject: ISPs now responsible for Pirated Material
Mime-Version: 1.0
Sender: owner-general@la-ma.org
Precedence: bulk

http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,28357,00.html?st.ne.fd.mdh

Summary:  IF a local ISP doesn't register with the goverment, per a new law
Clinton signed this week, the ISP can be held legally responsible for any
pirated material that may be on their site.

Doug

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: pgut001@cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann)
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 04:45:47 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: TriSnakeoil questions
Message-ID: <91029670728883@cs26.cs.auckland.ac.nz>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I wrote:
 
>I'm currently sitting in a booth at a Tandem user show directly opposite the 
>Atalla one.  If there's anything in particular which someone wants to ask 
>them, let me know and I'll see how knowledgeable their salesdroids are.  
 
I had a talk to them, it turns out that of the two different Atalla's, Atalla 
the company and John Atalla the person, the snake oil is being pushed by 
Atalla the person rather than Atalla the company.  The Atalla people knew as 
little about it as everyone else, and although they were careful with their 
replies I got the impression that they were about as impressed with TriStrata 
as others on this list are.  OTOH perhaps they were just depressed that I 
asked them about TriStrata instead of their RSA/3DES card :-).
 
[I have half a dozen brochures for this one, in every single brochure it's 
 called something different (SET accelerator, SSL accelerator, e-commerce 
 accelerator,  accelerator) but once you get past the first few 
 application-specific paragraphs the rest is identical.  Covers all the bases 
 I guess.  Their white paper on why hardware crypto is better than software 
 crypto is a hoot too - "Hardware is cheaper" (obviously some new definition 
 of the word with which I wasn't previously familiar), "software crypto can't 
 be shared" (as opposed to hardware, which can be shared with a simple copy 
 command), etc.  Their products look pretty good, but everyone I talked to 
 complained about the price and was ready to jump on software alternatives]
 
Peter.
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 08:11:27 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: Re: Grounding (fwd)
Message-ID: <3643312D.5C2@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



OMYGAWD!

I can see that I'll have to give up soon.

> The solutions to the wave equation inside the cavity have a real part ~0
> in the exponent.
***
It's not a question of a Schroedingers Wave Equation, it's a question of
Maxwell's Equations. 
***

Yeah I've got my old copy of Jackson. MTW too, for all the good it did
me. Maxwell's equations can be used to form a wave equation too. I only
bring up the Schroedinger equation because the solutions to simple
particle-in-a-box examples are easy to generate and easy to visualize.
Anyone who even began a decent Physics program should have done many of
these. The probability function for the Quantum example *looks like* the
amplitude for the EM example...analogy is a good tool.

> The boundary condition at the inside surface of the
> copper box splices together the solutions in the cavity and inside the
> conductor.

***
What conductor? The shell is equipotential unless you're trying to play
head
games with me so there follows there can be no current flow through it
except radialy to the outside of the sphere.
***
DC, Yes. AC, things are happening.

To solve the diffeq's for an EM wave incident on a conducting surface
you have to make the solutions !inside! the conductor match the
solutions outside the conductor. Only if the conductor is *perfect* does
your assumption of nothing going on inside the conductor make sense.

BTW - the skin depth for Cu at 100MHz is about 0.00026". The skin depth
is proportional to f^(-0.5).

In brief, here's what happens to the wave incident on a copper sheet:
Wave is incident on surface
Most of the wave is reflected
  the better the conductor, the more is reflected
the portion that is not reflected is attenuated in the conductor ( loss
)
any amplitude on the other surface of the sheet radiates energy.

It should be obvious that, if the conductor is good, there will be very
little amplititude inside the conductor, low loss reflection. Further,
that 4 mils of Cu should provide ~80 dB loss in even the tiny amount
that is not reflected at the inner surface. At 100MHz. I haven't solved
this system for many years and I'm not inclined to go back to it now.
Take my word for it : a little RF can get through a copper sheet but
only a *very* little. It's the finite conductivity that alters the
simple scenario.

***
Let's walk through it using your model....

The spark gap generates sparks and that builds up free electrons in the
space inside the sphere (whether it is gas filled or a vacuum is
irrelevant). As that charge builds up it will be all of one type,
electrons.
Now the electrons repel each other and therefor move in a circular
motion
with the spark gap as the center. They strike the surface of the sphere
and
tunnel through to the outside surface where they reside. The amount of
charge at any one point is related to the curvature of the surface at
that
point. Since a sphere is constant curvature the charge will be evenly
distributed. It will continue to build up so long as you supply power to
the
spark gap. In an ideal world it will get bigger and bigger. In the real
world at some point insulation breaks down and normal current flow takes
place.
***
Wild!

Forget all this, this patchwork of pieces doesn't hold together as a
description of the physical problem. If it helps, forget about the spark
gap. Waves waves waves. Start with a wave packet in the box. Don't worry
about how it got there. Worry about keeping it there.

Best regards Jim,
Mike




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bob@tokensystems.com
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 01:17:59 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: legislation -- read
Message-ID: <199811061627.JAA16550@token1.tokensystems.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Dear Fellow Webmaster:

The recent events and pending legislation that have rocked the web are
sure to place new restrictions on the business. We think this is a
very good solution.

Check it out http://209.203.80.254/exe/tpromo1.cgi?7026131

Or call us if you have any questions.
Bob
818-559-3484





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Kawika Daguio" 
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 00:29:38 +0800
To: 
Subject: Re: RE: Digicash bankruptcy
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Much of Digicash's problems came about as a result of its inventors worldview and dreams.   These primary problems were caused by the same factors that created the impetus for their development.

The business constraints that David Chaum attempted to impose on everyone interested in his technology included social theory driven restrictions.   He really wanted to change not only how future payment systems worked but also wanted to change how current payment mechanisms and general social interaction and commerce worked in the future.  I share some of his concerns, but do not find his solution satisfactory.

I also remain unconvinced that point to point protection of sensitive information including credit cards numbers solves anything.   Infosec as practiced in the WebWorld leaves much to be desired.  Point to point encryption + weak and misleading naming (domain names) + near meaningless authentication + untrustworthy practices =  slightly worse to slightly better than nothing at all.

I am extremely patient (5-50 year time horizon) and remain hopeful that time, money, and proper attention by experienced risk and operations managers will resolve many of the weaknesses with current infrastructure and business models.

Kawika

>>> "Phillip Hallam-Baker"  11/05/98 09:07PM >>>
Phil is right in much of what he says but in a couple of cases he
is wrong.

Regarding the 'vortex of buzz technologies', VRML, network computers
and push are certainly not hot properties at the moment, neither is
interactive TV - but the Web was designed as the antithesis of 
Interactive TV. The root failure of Interactive TV was the assumption
that the world wanted to spend its time passively consuming the dross
pumped out through a 1000 channel 120" TV which would dominate the home.

I would also like to add Java onto the pile. Java today is simply
what C++ should have been. It does not revolutionize the programming
industry, it simply provides what some people think is an object
oriented programming environment and removes some of the worst 
legacy clutter of C.

Cryptographic payment systems are here - in the form of credit card
transactions over SSL. The main problem with SET and its competitors
is that SSL works a little too well.

That is not to say that there is no future for SET. SSL and credit
cards are unlikely to make the leap from the consumer market to the
business to business market. SET provides an ideal platform to 
integrate the use of the credit card infrastructure for business
payments.

The other area where I would disagree is over protocols. HTTP is
quite radically different to FTP in that it is a computer client
to computer server protocol. The metaphor of FTP is rumaging through
a filing cabinet. The HTTP and Web mechanism employs a locator.
Admittedly there was nothing to stop a text mode Web being created
in 1982 but nobody did so.

What is true is that the time taken for Internet technologies to move
to market is very slow. Much of the HTTP technology that just reached 
the market was proposed in '92 and '93. 

Finaly I have difficulty regarding Digicash as being all that socially
responsible. Chaum's problems had a lot to do with the business terms
he insisted on. What he had was a technology which allowed an improvement
to a payment system. He imagined he had a monopoly on the only feasible
solution. He was very baddly mistaken. The monopoly rents he demanded
were more than the market was willing to pay for a working and deployed
system - let alone for a patent license.

		Phill





For help on using this list (especially unsubscribing), send a message to
"dcsb-request@ai.mit.edu" with one line of text: "help".




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 00:31:57 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: New Law Requires ISPs to Register & Rat
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Delivered-To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
X-Sender: believer@telepath.com
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 08:11:11 -0600
To: believer@telepath.com
From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: New Law Requires ISPs to Register & Rat
Mime-Version: 1.0
Sender: owner-ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
Precedence: list
Reply-To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,28357,00.html?st.ne.1.head

Law enlists ISPs in
              piracy fight
              By John Borland
              Staff Writer, CNET News.com
              November 4, 1998, 5:30 p.m. PT

              A new set of federal regulations
              requires Internet service providers to
              register immediately with the U.S.
              government, lest they be held legally
              liable for pirated material that flows
              through their servers.

              The new rules, which went into effect
              yesterday, flow from the Digital
              Millennium Copyright Act, which was
              signed by President Clinton last week.
              The law shields ISPs from being sued
              for copyright infringement based on
              their subscribers' postings, so long as
              they register with the U.S. Copyright
              Office. The provision is the product of
              negotiations over the original copyright
              law, and was accepted reluctantly by
              service provider industry
              representatives.

              "This isn't what we would have
              wanted. It's a Washington approach to
              a simple kind of problem," said Dave
              McClure, executive director of the
              Association of Online Professionals, a
              trade group that represents ISPs.

              Copyright holders had complained that
              some ISPs were not responding to
              warnings about pirated material
              located on their servers, or were
              claiming ignorance even after being
              notified.

              "Copyright holders pushed for a
              requirement that a person actually be
              physically designated to receive
              information about infringement,"
              McClure said.

              The new law fills a legal gap left by
              the passage of the Communications
              Decency Act in 1996. Under that law,
              ISPs cannot be held liable for
              slanderous or libelous material that is
              posted on their services. That
              provision, which has been tested
              several times in court already,
              specifically excludes copyright issues.

              The new regulations require each ISP
              to designate a point-person to receive
              complaints about copyright
              infringement, and to send that
              information to the federal copyright
              office along with a $20 filing fee. The
              person's name and contact information
              also must be displayed prominently on
              the ISP's Web site.

              The rules went into effect November 3.
              Any unregistered ISP can legally be
              held liable for pirated material on its
              site from now on.

              The Copyright Office rules are only an
              interim step in the new law's
              implementation. Regulators will draft
              permanent rules and host a public
              comment period later this year or early
              next year.
    -----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------


****************************************************
To subscribe or unsubscribe, email:
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with the message:
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or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email@address
****************************************************
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--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 00:57:16 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Identification and Privacy are not Antinomies
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Delivered-To: DIGSIG@LISTSERV.TEMPLE.EDU
MIME-Version: 1.0
Date:         Fri, 6 Nov 1998 12:39:53 -0200
Reply-To: Digital Signature discussion 
Sender: Digital Signature discussion 
From: Ed Gerck 
Subject:      Identification and Privacy are not Antinomies
To: DIGSIG@LISTSERV.TEMPLE.EDU

     Identification and Privacy are not Antinomies


This is a comment to the article "Not for Identification Purposes" by
Richard Sobel, of 8/12/98, and a reply by Jorge Cortell-Albert, all
referenced at http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/filter/101598/letters.html

>From the inherent conflict seen in these articles, it is quite
apparent that one could profit from a new perspective when dealing
with identification issues today. Not only because of historical
examples of misuse or because the Clinton administration is proposing
a national ID card that may compromise privacy, but because we need
to harmonize needs with tools. Clearly, there is an escalating need
to identify -- likewise, there is an increasingly easy access to
information and massive cross-checking of data based on global
indexes.

Biometrics, contrary to expressed opinion such as Cortell-Albert's,
is not self-secure and cannot protect what it forthrightly denies:
privacy. One does not even have to recall the proverbial truck that
hits the subject, in order to realize that biometrics is also
perishable. In fact, biometrics just highlights the basic paradox of
privacy versus security -- where one is asked to forfeit privacy in a
rather permanent way in order to gain some transient level of
security.

Are identification and privacy antinomies, like freedom and slavery?
Is there an unresolvable conflict between both security and privacy?
Current expressed opinion, such as Sobel's and Cortell-Albert's, says
"yes" to both questions.

As we have no real solution within the current level of
understanding, one needs a fresh look into identification and
identity. To exercise the solution, Internet protocols can provide a
good practical arena accessible to all and truly international --
thus, I will use it in this exposition as an example. However, it
will be clear that I could likewise use anything else -- even the US
Government's current proposal for a national ID card.

Identification is often understood as an act of identifying, or of
establishing an identity. Identity is usually defined as "the
distinguishing character or personality of an individual" [1].

Of course, such definitions cannot be applied on the Internet. Any
mention to "identity" or "identity authentication" on the Internet is
a mere tag for something else, such as an individual's purported
attribute. Certainly, without any physical contact with an individual
or even without any way to directly verify it.

It is simply not possible to speak of "identity" or "identification"
as a dictionary defines it, over the Internet. All legal and
technical studies that call for or depend on such equivalence are
misleading. Any such "identity" or "identification" can be faked,
repudiated or are specifically unwarranted (e.g. by commercial CAs)
to relying-parties over the Internet.

That the US INS accepts UK birth (naming) certificates in order to
certify immigration status for its own policy of regulation, does not
mean that the INS is acting to "confirm" the legitimacy of the name,
or organise the UK namespace.

So, the first conclusion is that acceptance of an identity by a
recipient does not make that identification more veritable to others
... though it is often interpreted so, especially when a third
document is issued by the recipient and publicly known.

Sure, there is a bar on the standard of the {UK,...} authorities who
the INS respects sufficiently for its own activities. But INS
confirmation (or rather "use") confers no status on the original
document unless the INS policy wished to make such representation
explicit. Which would involve legal responsibilities that escalate
like those that would derive from a blank signed cheque.

Thus, this is also an unsolved problem in the 3D-world, outside the
Internet. On 15th April 1997, The Daily Telegraph, a UK quality
newspaper, reported on Alan Reeve [2] -- a convicted criminal and
triple killer who was described as "friendly, caring, dependable and
loving" by his fiancČe when he was arrested under false identity in
Ireland.

Clearly, the indeterminacy of "identity" on the 3D-world is itself a
reason to doubt any extension of such credentials to the Internet
[3,4]. Which is made worse by the often neglected fact that the
certificate user (e.g., "relying-party") is not privy to the contract
between the CA and the certificate subscriber [3]. Further, CAs
effectively contradict any possible public rights that
relying-parties might claim, by declaring in the CA's CPS (the
governing law) that a certificate has no warranted content to
relying-parties [3]. Moreover, on the Internet, we also need to
identify hosts, routing, software, etc. -- not just humans.

Thus, the basic Net disconnect is that the Internet is essentially
that wire that goes to your computer! Anything else that you imagine
is just this -- you imagine.

Even if you receive a message that looks like mine, from my address,
should you believe 100% it is mine? "Doubt until you have proof". Of
course, the degree of proof required depends on what is at stake and
what is your cost -- however, the best proof is to be considered the
one that leaves the concerned parties with no doubts [cf. 2]. Of
course, the law may require a higher degree of proof (eg, when buying
firearms you cannot just do it over e-mail -- you need to present a
legal identity, a legal connection to yourself and perhaps also an
address as a further legal connection).

The same disconnect happens in the 3D world, because who is to affirm
that the presented ID card is the "right one"? Or, that the person
depicted in the card is the "right one"? Who is Alan Reeve?

However, as given in [5,6], there is an answer to the
privacy/security paradox. And, practical tools that may help the
Clinton administration (or, any government, company or individual) to
decrease costs without resorting to privacy burdens over the
puported beneficiaries.

The answer begins by a question: What is "to identify"? The study
shows that "to identify" is to look for connections. Thus, in
identification we look for logical or natural connections -- we look
for coherence. The work shows that not identity but coherence is the
general metric for identification and deduces more than 64 basic
types of identification. More coherence and more identification types
mean stronger identification, even if anonymous.

Identification can thus be understood not only in the sense of an
"identity" connection, but in the wider sense of "any" connection.
Which one to use is just a matter of protocol expression, need, cost
and (very importantly) privacy concerns.

A further benefit is that it allows clear definitions for a large
number of new anonymous identification types, sorely needed on the
Internet, for e-commerce and to decrease costs inccurred with fraud,
in general, but without compromising one's privacy just to tank the
car or buy a lunch.

I note that even though motivated by the Internet, as a practical
arena, the concepts reported in [5,6] can be applied to improve any
identification method -- including the present proposal by the US
Government.


Cheers,

Ed Gerck

============================================
References:

[1] Merriam-Webster Dictionary, http:www.m-w.com

[2] http://www.mcg.org.br/auth_b1.htm

[3] http://www.mcg.org.br/certover.pdf

[4] http://www.mcg.org.br/cert.htm

[5] http://www.mcg.org.br/coherence.txt

[6] http://www.mcg.org.br/coherence2.txt


______________________________________________________________________
Dr.rer.nat. E. Gerck                     egerck@novaware.cps.softex.br
http://novaware.cps.softex.br

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 01:20:37 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: FCC Wiretap Rule
Message-ID: <199811061635.LAA24230@camel14.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



FCC has issued its Notice of Proposed Rulemaking on 
CALEA wiretap provisions, approved on October 22:

   http://jya.com/fcc98282.htm  (243K)

Zipped:

   http://jya.com/fcc98282.zip  (67K)

Lengthy discussion of petitioners (CDT, EFF, telcos, others) 
objections and FBI's responses.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Duncan Frissell 
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 01:59:04 +0800
To: Robert Hettinga 
Message-ID: <199811061720.MAA28321@mail1.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




>http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,28357,00.html?st.ne.fd.mdh
>
>Summary:  IF a local ISP doesn't register with the goverment, per a new law
>Clinton signed this week, the ISP can be held legally responsible for any
>pirated material that may be on their site.
>
>Doug
>

"Register Communists -- Not ISPs"

DCF




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 03:17:21 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone	 (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <5F152E6E8E6FD21195DF00104B2425AD02B24B@yarrowbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 4:52 PM -0500 11/5/98, Matthew James Gering wrote:
>> Robert Hettinga wrote:

>> Further more, even in a free-market there will exist
>> black markets.
>
>Provided you don't corrupt the meaning of free-market to include any
>possible black market, then yes, there will *always* be a black market. It
>can be made rather insignificant however.

	Assuming your definition of "free market" is "a market without
regulation", you can't have a black market in a free market since a black
market is trade in violation of regulations.

	In other words, a Black market is when you trade either illegal
goods illegally, or legal goods illegally.

	If there are no illegal goods, and there is no regulations limiting
trading, then the black market cannot exist.

	Unless I am missing some context here.

>> The aspect of a free-market is that there is no consequence from
>> such actions (unless you want to admit to allowing corporations to have
>> their own hit squads).
>
>And again you pervert the meaning of free market. I'm tired arguing that
>subject with you, go read a book.

	Remember that line from _A_Fish_Called_Wanda_ about apes and philosopy?
--
"To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a
jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a
gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather naďve, and certainly
unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust"
http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html

Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro@playboy.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 06:07:03 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone (fwd)
Message-ID: <5F152E6E8E6FD21195DF00104B2425AD02B258@yarrowbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Matthew James Gering wrote:
> >Provided you don't corrupt the meaning of free-market to include 
> >any possible black market, then yes, there will *always* be a 
> >black market. It can be made rather insignificant however.

Petro responded:
> Assuming your definition of "free market" is "a market without
> regulation", you can't have a black market in a free market 
> since a black market is trade in violation of regulations.

Like I said, if you don't corrupt the meaning of free market.

Laissez Faire capitalism is based on a concept of individual rights.
Therefore the proper role of any government (in a libertarian state) or
individual/social institution (in rational anarchy) is to protect individual
rights (life, liberty, property), and act as an objective framework for
retributive force.

Therefore, any transaction that violates individual rights is immoral (if
not illegal) and constitutes a black market.

e.g. assassinations, ransom, stolen goods, extortion, slavery, etc.

To create a anarcho-capitalist definition of free market where everything
goes and there is no concept of individual rights is as immoral and perverse
as the statist concepts that similarly have no concept of individual rights
(fascism, communism).

	Matt




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: SECRET AGENT 66 
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 03:14:48 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Digicash bankruptcy
Message-ID: <01J3USZFHLJ694XOBF@delphi.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>The root failure of Interactive TV was the assumption             
>that the world wanted to spend its time passively consuming the dross
>pumped out through a 1000 channel

	Actually, the failure of interactive tv was that the world
was perfectly happy passively comsuming the dross
pumped out through a 1000 channels. 

	Probably explains the failure of digicash, too. 

		joab




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "John C" 
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 08:14:30 +0800
To: Yankee1428@aol.com
Subject: Fwd: How true this is
Message-ID: <19981106233653.27724.qmail@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



it's rare that i do this...

>>Perfect Days
>>
>>
>>The Perfect Day For HER
>>
>>8:15	Wakeup to hugs & kisses
>>8:30	Weigh in 5lb lighter than yesterday
>>8:45	Breakfast in bed, fresh squeezed orange juice & croissants
>>9:15	Soothing hot bath with fragrant lilac bath oil
>>10:00	Light work out at club with handsome, funny personal trainer
>>10:30	Facial, manicure, shampoo & comb out
>>12:00	Lunch with best friend at outdoor cafe
>>12:45	Notice ex-boyfriends wife, she has gained 30lbs
>>13:00	Shopping with friends, unlimited credit
>>15:00	Nap
>>16:00	3 dozen roses delivered by florist, card is from secret admirer
>>16:15	Light work out at club, followed by gentle massage
>>17:30	Pick out outfit for dinner, primp before mirror
>>19:30	Candlelight dinner for two followed by dancing
>>22:00	Hot shower (alone)
>>22:30	Make love
>>23:00	Pillow talk, light touching & cuddling
>>23:15	Fall asleep in his big strong arms
>>
>>
>>The perfect day for HIM
>>
>>6:00	Alarm
>>6:15	Blowjob
>>6:30	Massive shit, while reading sports section of paper
>>7:00	Breakfast, Fillet mignon & eggs, toast & coffee
>>7:30	Limo arrives
>>7:45	Vodka Bloody Mary en route to airport
>>8:15	Private Jet to Augusta, Georgia (en route Coffee, Cigar & Wall
>>St Journal)
>>9:30	Limo to Augusta National Golf Club
>>9:45	Front nine holes at Augusta (2 under par)
>>11:45	Lunch, 2 dozen oysters on the half shell, 3 Hienekens
>>12:15	Blowjob
>>12:30	Back nine holes at Augusta (4 under par)
>>14:15	Limo back to airport (Vodka Martini)
>>14:30	Private Jet, Augusta to Nassau, Bahamas (nap)
>>15:15	Late afternoon fishing excursion with all female (topless) crew
>>16:30	Land world record light tackle Marlin (1249lbs)
>>17:00	Jet back home, massage & hand job en route by naked Elle
>>Macpherson
>>18:45	Shit, shave & shower
>>19:00	Watch CNN newsflash: Clinton resigns, Hillary and Al Gore farm
>>animal sex video released.
>>19:30	Dinner, Lobster appetizers, Dom Perignon (1963), 20oz New York
>>Steak
>>21:00	Wild Turkey & Cuban cigar
>>21:30	Sex with three women
>>23:00	Massage & Jacuzzi
>>23:45	Bed (alone)
>>23:50	12 second, 4 note fart, dog leaves room
>>23:55	Sleep


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 08:10:26 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811062338.RAA00510@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 12:34:34 -0500
> From: Petro 
> Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone
>  	 (fwd)

> 	Assuming your definition of "free market" is "a market without
> regulation", you can't have a black market in a free market since a black
> market is trade in violation of regulations.

Actualy a black market is usualy goods gotten through theft or other illegal
means, not necessarily anything related to how or what is sold. If you don't
corrupt free-market to include legitimizing theft as a viable market
strategy then yes, you can in fact have a black market in a free-market.

Let's consider auto-theft. The issue isn't that you can't buy the car
through legitimate means, it just means you have to have more resources than
you have. So what do you do? You find somebody whose stolen a vehicle and is
willing to sell it to you at a discount.

> 	In other words, a Black market is when you trade either illegal
> goods illegally, or legal goods illegally.

Too strict and unrealistic a definition of black market.

> 	If there are no illegal goods, and there is no regulations limiting
> trading, then the black market cannot exist.

Of course not since we've now legitimized theft and murder with your
definition.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Kevin 
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 10:57:55 +0800
To: 
Subject: Hey there...................
Message-ID: <419.436105.76927211kkemp@magicnet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 09:07:36 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Grounding (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811070039.SAA00913@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 09:26:05 -0800
> From: Michael Motyka 
> Subject: Re: Grounding (fwd) 

> Yeah I've got my old copy of Jackson. MTW too, for all the good it did
> me. Maxwell's equations can be used to form a wave equation too. I only
> bring up the Schroedinger equation because the solutions to simple
> particle-in-a-box examples are easy to generate and easy to visualize.

The problem is we're not discussing a particle in a box. We're discussing
the statistical mechanical behaviour of a group of particles. Apples and
oranges. One, you're scale of distance between the two is off by orders of
magnitude. Secondly, you're considering an electron carrying a photon as a
single wavicle, it ain't. It's a superposition of several wavicles (3 quarks
and a lepton to be exact under the standard model). Thirdly, you're trying
to model a group of particles as a single instance of Schroedengers Wave
equation, a big no no. Fourthly, you're failing to take into account the
interactions between the particles and those consequences because of mass
charge, which after all is the engine that drives this model.

In reference to your particle-in-a-box model, the point you seem to miss is
that the scale of the box is on the order of a few Planck distances. That
behaviour is grossly different than a ball 10 in. in diameter filled with a
gas of electrons (and potentialy protons if it's not a vacuum) all carrying
short-wavelength photons around.

> DC, Yes. AC, things are happening.

Where did the AC come from? We're talking about a spark gap that is only
going to emit electrons *and* is run by a battery (it's your baby). Where
the hell do I buy an AC battery pray tell?

Where? Under your example there is no mass charge flow because ground is
irrelevant. So we're left with only the gas like behaviours. Now it's
clear that the individual particle paths are going to be modelled via a
drunkards walk. So, where does this coherent flow come from?

If there is a flow it implies, because of the behaviour of like/dislike
charges, that there is a difference in charge.

> To solve the diffeq's for an EM wave incident on a conducting surface
> you have to make the solutions !inside! the conductor match the
> solutions outside the conductor. Only if the conductor is *perfect* does
> your assumption of nothing going on inside the conductor make sense.

What the hell are you talking about?....

Here's what we're discussing:

A generator emits electrons which carry a negative charge.

These electrons each also carry a photon of some quantity.

Like charges repel.

When a photon strikes an atom it will be absorbed if it's wavelength matches
one of the Bohr radii. This may cause one or more secondary photons to be
emitted as a result.

The assumption was the spark gap is in the center of the ball.

Because the spark gaps emission of electrons is random the resultant cloud
of particles can be modelled as a gas that is expanding from a point source.

The expansion is driven by the repelling effect of the charges.

This causes the the particles at time tau to, on average - remember we're
talking statistical mechanics here, expand at an equal rate, in effect
forming a bubble of particles coherent with tau. That rate is usualy related
to k * sqrt ( s ).

As the charges expand some will emit photons. Some of the atoms in the shell
will emit photons. Some of each will absorb photons.

At some point (tau + delta) the charge impacts the shell. This will in
effect increase the charge of the shell by 1 -e.

Now, by Gauss's Law, this charge in the gas will induce an opposite charge
on the inside surface of the globe.

Unlike charges attract. Therefore the gas of electrons are attracted to the
inside surface. Now since the globe is neutral it must follow by
conservation of charge that there is a negative charge equal to the charge
held in the gas on the *OUTSIDE* of the ball.

This is in addition to the charge that steadily builds up in the shell as
the electrons accrete over time. This can be modelled with an integral of
the flow rate of the current in the battery (it after all is Coulombs/s).
It's not too hard (k * I). (I'm not going to go into what happens as the
charge on the shell builds up as we're discussing here the applicability of
wave equations as a reliable model).

So what do you get? A hell of a charge that will go bang at some point when
some insulation give way.

See:

Physics
J. Orear
ISBN 0-02-389460-1
pp. 304
"Electrical Induction"

He uses your exact model except for the tether. It's a classic in Freshman
Physics and science museums.

> BTW - the skin depth for Cu at 100MHz is about 0.00026". The skin depth
> is proportional to f^(-0.5).

So what if the electron gives it's photon up to another which causes it to
bounce around through the Cu lattice till it gets to the other side knocking
an electron free (conservation of momentum) or emitting a free photon (which
is what we're *REALLY* talking about reducing with TEMPEST - you could think
of it as cooling the laptop at rf frequencies if you like, you could model
it with a spin-glass based cellular automaton). It's called charge migration
and there are also effects at high voltage which is called charge tunneling.
If you examine the literature of Japanese hi-v researchers they have become
adept at causing ball lightening to tunnel through insulators. It's pretty
interesting. There are also quite a few cases where the inducement fails and
the result is a broken ceramic plate because of the heating effects.

[rest deleted]


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 02:23:18 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: don't use passwords as private keys (was Re: Using a password as a private key.)
In-Reply-To: <199810312353.SAA23037@camel7.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <199811061754.SAA22579@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



John Young  wrote:

> Speaking of promo, we saw last night on the Free Congress site a reference
> to a report titled "Cyhperpunks v. Cryptocrats: The Battle Over US Encryption
> Standards," by Lisa S. Dean.

Have you tried e-mailing Lisa?




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Lynne L. Harrison" 
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 08:55:24 +0800
To: 
Subject: RE: Quick, Dear -- Beat Me
In-Reply-To: <000401be087d$55f97aa0$3b8195cf@blanc>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981106193055.0082bdd0@pop.mhv.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 10:47 AM 11/5/98 -0500, Petro wrote:
>
>At 12:08 AM -0500 11/5/98, Blanc wrote:
>>From Duncan Frissell:
>>
>>I just went to the bank I do business with this week to open a new account.
>>They wanted my social security number, (which they actually already have on
>>record), and during a search on her handy database, the Customer Assistance
>>clerk informed me that there was another person in Florida using the same
>>number.
>>
>>>report and advice to notify the Social Security dept about it.   I don't
>>really
>>want to discuss it with them.  Think it would be to my benefit to just
>>leave it
>>alone?   Probbly not.


>	If they are using your name as well, they could be damaging your
>credit rating.

Absolutely, and it is not limited to credit cards.  It would pop up if, for
example, you buy a new car.  If your rating does become negatively
affected, the creditor could care less about your explanation of some Joe
Anonymous using your SSN.  His first question would be why didn't you
report it when you found out.  Whatever credit you'd be applying for would
get unbelievably mired in beaucracy - something you wouldn't need.
  
Additionally, it can mushroom in other areas as well.  This other person is
getting credit for the number of years that you have been employed.  Also,
if s/he applies for SSD or SSI (disability or supplemental security
income), you will be impacted upon.  Some states require SSN's for driving
licenses, and there's a myriad of potential problems here as well.  Tax
returns can potentially become a complication.  And the list goes on....

All in all, you should seriously reconsider your decision of not reporting
the problem.


***********************************************************
Lynne L. Harrison, Esq.           |    "The key to life:
Poughkeepsie, New York            |     - Get up;
mailto:lharrison@dueprocess.com   |     - Survive;
http://www.dueprocess.com         |     - Go to bed."
***********************************************************

DISCLAIMER:  I am not your attorney; you are not my client.
             Accordingly, the above is *NOT* legal advice.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: jkthomson 
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 13:38:35 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: verisign digital id's for outlook 
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981106210608.00956390@dowco.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





A quick question for all you security-savvy people.  Our IT instructor has
asked the class to sign up for verisigns' 60-day trial of a class 1 digital
id.  

pfaugh.  give me a copy of PGP anyday!  at least I can (easily) take my
keys with me!

I also understand that a well (poorly?) written activeX applet can grab my
key basically without my knowledge (to speak nothing of the other myriad
holes in win98/95)

My question is, where the hell is the private key kept on the users box?
How is it protected against attack? I had to voice my displeasure with the
instructor that I could not take the ID with me on a floppy so that the
night class would not have potential access, but got the usual 'it is
secure enough, let it be' attitude.

Thanks in advance for any information!

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
 james 'keith' thomson   www.bigfoot.com/~ceildh
 jkthomson:C181 991A 405C EAFB 2C46 79B5 B1DC DB78 8196 122D [06.07.98]
 ceildh   :1D79 59AF ED75 5945 6003 8240 DA34 ACCA 9DE4 6BC9 [05.14.98]
 ICQ:354111  at pgp.mit.edu     ...and former sysop of tnbnog BBS
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
"You shouldn't overestimate the IQ of crooks." - Stuart Baker, of NSA
explaining why crooks and terrorists who are smart enough to use data
encryption would be stupid enough to choose DES
=======================================================================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 11:35:45 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: ASHCROFT 2000 RIP?
In-Reply-To: <19981107005439.30238.qmail@listbox.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 6:04 PM -0500 on 11/6/98, National Review DC wrote:


> ASHCROFT 2000 RIP?
> Gov. Mel Carnahan (D., Mo.) has announced he will challenge Sen. John
> Ashcroft's (R., Mo.) re-election. It's an ominous move for the freshman
> senator's presidential bid. Sen. Phil Gramm had a tougher race than
> usual following his disastrous 1996 run for the presidency, and he was
> running against a political nobody. Gov. Carnahan is politically
> formidable, and could give Ashcroft a run for his money even without the
> distractions, missed votes, and potential embarrassments of a
> presidential campaign. Ashcroft now must worry about the Dornan effect.
>
> On the other hand, Ashcroft would be able to convert any funds raised in
> a presidential campaign to his Senate race if he lost the former. But
> handicappers already question how much he can raise.

-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Hohensee 
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 14:46:00 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <5F152E6E8E6FD21195DF00104B2425AD02B258@yarrowbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
Message-ID: <3643E9AE.24027635@nyu.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Matthew James Gering wrote:
> 
> Laissez Faire capitalism is based on a concept of individual rights.
> Therefore the proper role of any government (in a libertarian state) or
> individual/social institution (in rational anarchy) is to protect individual
> rights (life, liberty, property), and act as an objective framework for
> retributive force.

No government can protect individual rights.  The only way one could do
so would be if it: (a) could predict the future, and act to prevent
certain futures from happening; or (b) it controls every aspect and
motion of each individual's life, thereby ensuring that nobody steps out
of line.

Unfortunately, the first scenario is impossible, given the current state
of the art, and the second results in the complete extinction of
individual rights in the name of safety (which is the ultimate goal of
the current powers that be, it seems).

All any state can do is threaten to "retaliate" against (why not just
say "attack") people who disobey its edicts.  In order for this threat
to be credible, the state must wield sufficient power to kill any
individual (or group of individuals) who would stand against it.  If it
does not have this power, it cannot govern.  The problem is, if it does
have this power, then there is nothing to stop those individuals in
control of the state from violating the individual rights of its
citizens.  As often seems the case today, for example.

The system you suggest, which I assume consists of a state with a
"minimal" amount of power, run by enlightened people, is in a state of
extremely unstable equilibrium (if it is indeed in equilibrium).  If it
wields just enough power to enforce its will, that power can be used by
evil men to increase its power.

Just look at what happened after the Constitutional coup took place in
the fledgling USA.  Remember the Whiskey Rebellion?  When we lost the
Articles of Confederation, we were taking the first steps down the road
to the tyranny of today.  The anti-federalists predicted this, although
they sorely underestimated how far it would go --assuming that it would
be stopped by another revolution.

The minimalist state has been tried.  It lasted less than a decade
before it started turning into what we have today, and what was left of
its spirit died with the war of northern aggression.

The only truly free system is one in which there is no body of people
calling itself a government which can enforce its will over the
individual.  The only way people can seem to be free living under such a
body is entirely dependent upon the good will of their masters, and this
is a shaky assumption to make.

> Therefore, any transaction that violates individual rights is immoral (if
> not illegal) and constitutes a black market.

How about:  Any action that involves the initiation of force against the
property of another person (the person belongs to himself, of course) is
immoral.

This neatly tidies up the obvious question of exactly what "individual
rights" are.  There's a partial list of them in the bill of rights, but
it is not complete, by its own admission.  Furthermore, the above
definition excludes such dubious rights as the "right to an education",
the "right to welfare", etc.

> e.g. assassinations, ransom, stolen goods, extortion, slavery, etc.

All of the above involve the initiation (or threat of initiation) of
force.  Hence they are immoral, and the victims and any bystanders would
be morally justified in using force against the initiators.  Of course,
this would not be true in a governed society, where the state must hold
a monopoly on the use of force, if only to maintain its own position. 
Much less efficient.  

Besides, putting a subset of the population to the task of defining what
is and isn't moral leads to such inanities as "homosexuality is
immoral", "premarital sex/underage sex is immoral", and "ingesting
certain compounds is immoral."  

We've all got our pet peeves.  Would you like to live under mine?  Would
I like to live under yours?  Can I trust you to be tolerant?  Can I
trust your successors, 20 years from now?  Can my descendants trust
subsequent successors, 200 years later?  Experience tends to show the
contrary.

> To create a anarcho-capitalist definition of free market where everything
> goes and there is no concept of individual rights is as immoral and perverse
> as the statist concepts that similarly have no concept of individual rights
> (fascism, communism).

The anarcho-capitalist free market is not one where "everything goes,"
and there is indeed a strong concept of individual rights.  What is
moral and not moral is defined by society on an individual basis.  The
first and only rule is:

No one has the right to initiate force against another or another's
property.

This is the fundamental and only "social contract" we make.  Anyone who
disagrees with this is obviously antisocial, and nobody's going to want
to live with him (or allow him to continue living, if he attacks
someone).

>From this, morality follows.  If X does Y to Z, and if Y is perceived as
immoral, then X is not going to be very popular with Z or anyone else,
unless he can make amends.  No one will want to trade with him, be near
him, etc.  This is a very strong motive to avoid doing immoral things.

If Y is really nasty, such as the initiation of force, then X is going
to be in *deep* trouble.  Z may well shoot him out of self defense, and
even if he survives his action, he'll have to pay a *lot* of restitution
before people will trust him again, if ever.  Law enforcement by
ostracism --read L. Neil Smith's "The Probability Broach", for a more
detailed description.  

In summary, a free market is far from being an immoral market.  In fact,
it is the most moral market there is, since there is no state which
holds the "right" to initiate force.

Regards,

Michael Hohensee




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Albert P. Franco, II" 
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 16:52:14 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: RE: Quick, Dear -- Beat Me
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981107090029.008caa20@apf2.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/enriched


>From: "Lynne L. Harrison" 
>Subject: RE: Quick, Dear -- Beat Me
>At 10:47 AM 11/5/98 -0500, Petro wrote:

>>At 12:08 AM -0500 11/5/98, Blanc wrote:
>>>From Duncan Frissell:
>>>
>>>I just went to the bank I do business with this week to open a new account.
>>>They wanted my social security number, (which they actually already have on
>>>record), and during a search on her handy database, the Customer Assistance
>>>clerk informed me that there was another person in Florida using the same
>>>number.

Long list of problems which could result from someone using your SSN snipped...

>All in all, you should seriously reconsider your decision of not reporting
>the problem.
>
>

So much for the SSN "never" becoming a national ID number! 

Since your SS account and pension can be negatively impacted, this tends to reinforce the idea that your SSN should be a secret. But how can we keep it a secret if they keep putting it on public documents such as drivers licenses? Seems to me that when they are all done making the SSN the official National ID number they will need to give us a NEW SSN that is secret, kind of like a PIN to unlock and validate our National ID and SS accounts. 

...and latter a PIN to protect the PIN...

APF


From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Albert P. Franco, II" 
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 16:51:51 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone (fwd)
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981107091528.00922620@apf2.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>From: Jim Choate 
>Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone
(fwd)
>
>Forwarded message:
>
>> Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 12:34:34 -0500
>> From: Petro 
>> Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone
>>  	 (fwd)

>
>> 	In other words, a Black market is when you trade either illegal
>> goods illegally, or legal goods illegally.
>
>Too strict and unrealistic a definition of black market.

I would add the clause illegal goods (apparently) legally. This covers the
case where stolen property is moved through legitimate channels. Even if
the government doesn't restrict and legitimize the channels there must be
restrictions on theft and inappropriate acquisition (fraud) of goods (and
services) otherwise the result is not free-market, but rather barbarism and
brute force rule.

Under the "free-for-all" definition of free market, the final result would
actually be slavery (since you wouldn't produce the items that I keep
stealing from you unless I hold a gun to your head), and war (in order to
get resources I can pay or I can steal, since I don't like to pay, I'll
just get a bigger army and steal it from you). Sounds drastic? There are a
few examples today in the parts of Africa controlled by warlords.

>
>> 	If there are no illegal goods, and there is no regulations limiting
>> trading, then the black market cannot exist.
>
>Of course not since we've now legitimized theft and murder with your
>definition.
>
Nothing is EVER black and white. And free-market can never be 100% free or
it will cease to be a market.

APF




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 01:43:03 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811071710.LAA02112@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 01:33:18 -0500
> From: Michael Hohensee 
> Subject: Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone (fwd)

> No government can protect individual rights.

That isn't a reasonable statement. There is nothing in the definition or
application of 'government' or 'individual rights' that preclude this. The
issue becomes in a practical sense how the practitioners of a government
system respect individual rights. If they are willing to do away with them
to protect them (as we seem to be moving toward in this country) then of
course there are no individual rights.

Of course, this implies there are no collective rights either.

>  The only way one could do
> so would be if it: (a) could predict the future, and act to prevent
> certain futures from happening; or (b) it controls every aspect and
> motion of each individual's life, thereby ensuring that nobody steps out
> of line.

What has that to do with protecting individual rights? Clarify please.

> All any state can do is threaten to "retaliate" against (why not just
> say "attack") people who disobey its edicts.  In order for this threat
> to be credible, the state must wield sufficient power to kill any
> individual (or group of individuals) who would stand against it.  If it
> does not have this power, it cannot govern.

This is a quaint and completely artificial distinction.

> citizens.  As often seems the case today, for example.

We also see quite a few situations where the opposite occurs as well.

> The system you suggest, which I assume consists of a state with a
> "minimal" amount of power, run by enlightened people, is in a state of

Anyone who assumes noble oblige is an idiot. There are no enlightened
people, intelligence and wealth no more prepare an individual for a
position in government than they prepare them for anything else.
Rich/intelligent people don't make less mistakes than those who aren't.

> extremely unstable equilibrium (if it is indeed in equilibrium).  If it

If you're talking of Hayek's equilibrium, it's nothing more than a
bastardization of a thermodynamics term to represent the status quo.
Equilabrium in the economic sense simply means that people do today what
they did yesterday. In general they do about as often as they don't.

> wields just enough power to enforce its will, that power can be used by
> evil men to increase its power.

Evil? Where did religion come into this at?

> Just look at what happened after the Constitutional coup took place in
> the fledgling USA.  Remember the Whiskey Rebellion?  When we lost the
> Articles of Confederation, we were taking the first steps down the road
> to the tyranny of today.  The anti-federalists predicted this, although
> they sorely underestimated how far it would go --assuming that it would
> be stopped by another revolution.

There have been several since then. The Civil War and the civil rights
movement in the 60's are two good examples (on the opposite end of the
'use-of-violence' scales).

> The minimalist state has been tried.

No, that was a non-federalist state where the individual states acted as
individuals in a collective. Because of the collective nature of the state
governments it didn't work. A minimalist state would be anarchy.

> The only truly free system is one in which there is no body of people
> calling itself a government which can enforce its will over the
> individual.  The only way people can seem to be free living under such a
> body is entirely dependent upon the good will of their masters, and this
> is a shaky assumption to make.

No it isn't the only way. The only way is to clearly define the duties of
each level of government and build a system of checks and balances that
prohibit them from moving outside their domains. A good first attempt at
this was the Constitution and the Bill of Rights (in particular 9 & 10).
The problem is that there are individuals who don't want to be limited in
their authority. It's a person problem not a government problem.

> How about:  Any action that involves the initiation of force against the
> property of another person (the person belongs to himself, of course) is
> immoral.

Morality? Why do you keep bringing religion and individual beliefs into it?

A person is, they don't belong to anyone.

It should be:

Any act that harms a person or their property without their prior permission
is a crime. There are no exceptions other than immediate personal self
defence, which terminates upon the application of minimal force to guarantee
the threat will not reoccur (in many cases this means kill the attacker).
This should apply to all individuals participating in a governmental role as
well.

> This neatly tidies up the obvious question of exactly what "individual
> rights" are.  There's a partial list of them in the bill of rights, but
> it is not complete, by its own admission.

By it's own admission they are protected from denial by the 9th and 10th so
they don't need to be listed (unlike the 10th lists the duties of the
government system). The problem is conservatives and liberals alike don't
respect those boundaries. They want more.

>  Furthermore, the above
> definition excludes such dubious rights as the "right to an education",
> the "right to welfare", etc.

Now you're doing exactly what you are complaining about. Your defining others
rights when you don't want them defining yours.

People may very well have a right to welfare and an education (I believe
people have a civil right to medical and legal advice gratis - stems from
the pursuit of life, liberty, and happiness). The issue isn't that. The
issue is *what are the duties of the government as defined in its charter*.
If those duties are not in there (and they're not) then it shouldn't be
doing it without an amendment from the charter.

> All of the above involve the initiation (or threat of initiation) of
> force.  Hence they are immoral, and the victims and any bystanders would
> be morally justified in using force against the initiators.  Of course,
> this would not be true in a governed society, where the state must hold
> a monopoly on the use of force, if only to maintain its own position. 
> Much less efficient.  

Go read the Constitution, it's true here in our governemnt though many
people don't want it to be so. As a result they find all kinds of childish
and inane reasons to deny the obvious.

Like it or not the federal governments panapoly of current powers are as
vacous as the king is naked.

It's like executive orders, unless you happen to work for the executive
branch they aren't worth the paper they're written on. Why? Because at no
point is the office of President given this authority over anyone other than
executive branch employees. He has no more authority to dictate general
behaviour via that mechanism than you or I do - zero. Per the 10th there is
not one sentence in the Constitution that delegates that authority to the
office.

> We've all got our pet peeves.  Would you like to live under mine?  Would
> I like to live under yours?  Can I trust you to be tolerant?  Can I
> trust your successors, 20 years from now?  Can my descendants trust
> subsequent successors, 200 years later?  Experience tends to show the
> contrary.

There is more at stake than toleration or trust. You paint with too narrow a
brush. If you're saying we should have anarchy then you're as kooky as the
people who don't literaly interpret the Constitution.

> The anarcho-capitalist free market is not one where "everything goes,"
> and there is indeed a strong concept of individual rights.  What is
> moral and not moral is defined by society on an individual basis.  The
> first and only rule is:

First, it is one of everything-goes because there is no mechanism that will
stop anybody from doing anything. There are NO concepts of *rights* in such
a system, let alone individual rights. If anything the only rights are who
has the capitalist backing to stave off the anarchic forces. That's not
justice, equality, or respect for rights.

> No one has the right to initiate force against another or another's
> property.

Attack me with your body and property and watch it happen junior.

> This is the fundamental and only "social contract" we make.  Anyone who
> disagrees with this is obviously antisocial, and nobody's going to want
> to live with him (or allow him to continue living, if he attacks
> someone).

Oh bullshit. There is much more involved like not stealing which isn't the
use of force and allowed by your anarcho-capatilism as well as your
definition of valid use of force above.

It's gibberish.

> >From this, morality follows.  If X does Y to Z, and if Y is perceived as
> immoral, then X is not going to be very popular with Z or anyone else,
> unless he can make amends.  No one will want to trade with him, be near
> him, etc.  This is a very strong motive to avoid doing immoral things.

Will you get religion the hell out of here please. Y is obviously popular
with X or else they wouldn't have used it. It further follows that there are
more than one X-type out there. So your premise falls down on its face in
the dirt.

> If Y is really nasty, such as the initiation of force, then X is going
> to be in *deep* trouble.

With who? In an anarcho-capitalist society as you paint it the optimal strategy
is to allow others to reduce your competition opening up the market for you.

Let's take an example. Imagine we live on a street and we notice a person
going from house to house down the other side of the street. What is our
optimal strategy? It isn't to call the cops (there aren't any) and it isn't
to immediately kill the intruder (it isn't our property after all) since
there is an opportunity to make a considerable gain here improving our
status in the society as a whole. The optimal strategy is to wait and let
this bozo kill our neighbors up to our house and *then* kill the intruder.
At that point we have just inhereted an entire street of houses and its
included properties. You put up a fence across each end of the street and
wallah, your own little fifedom. If you're really lucky something similar
will happen on the next street over and they won't be as lucky at killing
the intruder. Then after they are all dead and the intruder has consolidated
their gains (probably by fencing their street in) you can begin to scheme
ways of taking that property since its obvious yours is next.

>  Z may well shoot him out of self defense, and
> even if he survives his action, he'll have to pay a *lot* of restitution
> before people will trust him again, if ever.  Law enforcement by
> ostracism --read L. Neil Smith's "The Probability Broach", for a more
> detailed description.  

Wait a second, there is no law to enforce here outside of make money, obtain
property, keep somebody else from taking it.

> In summary, a free market is far from being an immoral market.  In fact,
> it is the most moral market there is, since there is no state which
> holds the "right" to initiate force.

In summary a free-market is a anarchy of kill or be killed, take or get
taken. He with the most goodies wins until somebody with a better strategy
comes along. There is nothing to moderate the use of force, especialy when
its the optimal strategy to increase ones holdings.

Your spouting gibberish.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 02:04:35 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Stip club plays by rules and wins...for now [CNN]
Message-ID: <199811071736.LAA02199@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 11:34:45 -0600
> X-within-URL: http://customnews.cnn.com/cnews/pna.show_story?p_art_id=3130419&p_section_name=U.S.

>            STRIP CLUB FINDS WAY AROUND CITY RESTRICTION: LET KIDS IN
>                                        
>    AP
>    06-NOV-98
>    
>    NEW YORK (AP) -- A New York City strip club has found a loophole that
>    allows it to wriggle past the mayor's crackdown on sex-oriented
>    businesses.
>    
>    The club says its policy is to admit kids -- if they're accompanied by
>    adults.
>    
>    Therefore, it argues, it's not an adult business.
>    
>    A judge agrees.
>    
>    Mayor Rudolph Giuliani is livid.

[rest deleted]


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 02:23:52 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: A question about the new ISP ruling and email...
Message-ID: <199811071757.LAA02280@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Hi,

I was pondering the draconian implications of the requirement to register
ISP's. Would an email only site be an ISP under these regulations?

What I had in mind was a box sitting here on a link to the Internet and
several local dial-ins. When a user logged in they could start pine, elm,
slip, or ppp. It would support inbound only telnet. The only commands that
would execute besides the above would be exit, quit, bye. There would not
need to be any directory access or related issues. The only storage avaiable
would be quotas on email buffer size.

Would such a commercial entity require registry to be protected?

I have to talk with a lawyer and find out if TAG needs registered. If so
then I'd be interested in participating in a civil liberties suit.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 04:46:17 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: RE: Quick, Dear -- Beat Me
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19981107090029.008caa20@apf2.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/enriched

 At 12:00 AM -0800 11/7/98, Albert P. Franco, II wrote:
So much for the SSN "never" becoming a national ID number! 

Since your SS account and pension can be negatively impacted, this tends to reinforce the idea that your SSN should be a secret. But how can we keep it a secret if they keep putting it on public documents such as drivers licenses? Seems to me that when they are all done making the SSN the official National ID number they will need to give us a NEW SSN that is secret, kind of like a PIN to unlock and validate our National ID and SS accounts. 

...and latter a PIN to protect the PIN...


Many business entities are now using part or all of the SSN as a _password_ for my account, or as a phone identifying validation number.

"And could we have the last four digits of your Social Security Number please?"

I've tried pointing out to the drones that SSNs are becoming ubiquitous, the anyone accessing my account besides me would probably have access to my SSN, and so on. A waste of time, as the drones neither known nor care.

--Tim May

Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash.
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,  
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets, 
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 05:26:42 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: genetic copy protection
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981107124923.007d7660@m7.sprynet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



	
A patent on a means to produce seeds which germinate, but
which produce plants whose seeds are sterile, was
reviewed in Science, p 850, 30 Oct 98 vol 282.

The trick is that the seeds are genetically engineered, 
and the seeds are 'activated' by an antibiotic (which
acts like a signal).  The purpose is to copy-protect
other engineered genes in the organism.

US pat 5,723,765

David Honig

  "When horsemeat is outlawed, only outlaws will eat horsemeat"










  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 07:08:02 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 6.10: Washington to Seek Public's Advice on EU Privacy Laws
Message-ID: <199811072128.NAA19713@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: "ama-gi ISPI" 
Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 6.10: Washington to Seek Public's Advice on EU Privacy Laws
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 00:29:18 -0800
To: 

ISPI Clips 6.10: Washington to Seek Public's Advice on EU Privacy Laws
News & Info from the Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI)
Thursday November 5, 1998
ISPI4Privacy@ama-gi.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This From: Fox News, November 4, 1998
http://www.foxnews.com

U.S. Negotiators Ask For Public Feedback in Talks With Europe Over Privacy
Law
http://www.foxnews.com/js_index.sml?content=/news/wires2/1104/n_ap_1104_334
.sml

NEW YORK - Raising the stakes in its talks with Europe over a new privacy
law there, the Commerce Department on Wednesday publicly reaffirmed a
laissez-faire approach toward protecting personal privacy that remains at
odds on key positions taken by European negotiators.

The Commerce Department released a statement for public feedback that
details its basic position in the talks. The talks attempt to resolve deep
differences over a sweeping European privacy measure that has the potential
to disrupt some commerce with the United States.

The law took effect on Oct. 26, but sanctions were suspended while the
talks go on.

U.S. firms from global drug makers to direct marketers doing business in
Europe fear the new directive could bar them from using customers'
confidential information for everything from valuable scientific research
to junk mail, stifling business commerce.

In its position paper, the U.S. reiterated its view that U.S. companies
should not be forced to give people access to personal information about
themselves. In addition, companies should have the option to choose an
independent industry group to police its privacy policies, instead of a
government body, as required by the European law.

"For now, we're trying to get (Europe's) reaction to these principles
themselves,'' said David Aaron, under secretary of Commerce. Aaron said the
United States wants to give companies "safe harbors'' to satisfy privacy
protection demands.

Some experts said the government's seeking of public comment could suggest
that the United States may seek to modify its position if enough people
favor the European approach.

"This is significant because it is the first time that the Commerce
Department has asked for public comment on its negotiating position with
the European Union,'' said Joel Reidenberg, a law professor at Fordham
University and an expert on U.S.-Europe relations.

A Commerce Department spokeswoman said the principles would be posted on
its Web site.

(c) 1998, News America Digital Publishing, Inc. d/b/a Fox Market Wire.

--------------------------------NOTICE:------------------------------
ISPI Clips are news & opinion articles on privacy issues from
all points of view; they are clipped from local, national and international
newspapers, journals and magazines, etc. Inclusion as an ISPI Clip
does not necessarily reflect an endorsement of the content or opinion
by ISPI. In compliance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed free without profit or payment for non-profit research
and educational purposes only.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

ISPI Clips is a FREE e-mail service from the "Institute for the Study
of Privacy Issues" (ISPI). To receive "ISPI Clips" on a regular bases
(up to 3 - 8 clips per day) send the following message  "Please
enter [Your Name] into the ISPI Clips list: [Your e-mail address]" to:
ISPIClips@ama-gi.com  .

The Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) is a small
contributor-funded organization based in Victoria, British Columbia
(Canada). ISPI operates on a not-for-profit basis, accepts no
government funding and takes a global perspective.

ISPI's mandate is to conduct & promote interdisciplinary research
into electronic, personal and  financial privacy with a view toward
helping ordinary people understand the degree of privacy they have
with respect to government, industry and each other and to likewise
inform them about techniques to enhance their privacy.

But, none of this can be accomplished without your kind and
generous financial support. If you are concerned about the erosion
of your privacy in general, won't you please help us continue this
important work by becoming an "ISPI Supporter" or by taking out
an institute Membership?

We gratefully accept all contributions:

  Less than $60    ISPI Supporter
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Your ISPI "membership" contribution entitles you to receive "The ISPI
Privacy Reporter" (our bi-monthly 12 page hard-copy newsletter in
multi-contributor format) for the duration of your membership.

For a contribution form with postal instructions please send the following
message "ISPI Contribution Form" to ISPI4Privacy@ama-gi.com .

We maintain a strict privacy policy. Any information you divulge to ISPI
is kept in strict confidence. It will not be sold, lent or given away to
any third party.














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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 07:05:42 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Crunch Time for Y2K Suppliers
Message-ID: <199811072128.NAA19724@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Crunch Time for Y2K Suppliers
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 11:22:46 -0600
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  Wired
http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/16035.html?3

Crunch Time for Y2K Suppliers
 by Declan McCullagh 

 4:00 a.m.5.Nov.98.PST
 The phones are already ringing when Steve
 Portela arrives at his office every morning.
 Orders are piling up as they never have before.
 Walton Feed, his bulk food company, doubled
 its workforce this year to 125 people and a new
 warehouse will open in late November. 

 It isn't enough. Orders placed today won't be
 delivered for six months. 

 "I'm falling further behind every day," Portela
 complains. 

 The source of Portela's woes? Widespread
 worries about the Year 2000 computer problem.
 The looming bug has sent thousands of
 Americans scrambling to load up on bulk food,
 generators, solar cells, and gold coins. Some of
 the products, if ordered today, won't arrive on a
 customer's doorstep until spring 1999. And
 delays are expected to grow. 

 Spikes in demand are nothing new to Portela.
 The Mount St. Helens eruption, the Los Angeles
 riots, and the last major California earthquake all
 spurred people into grabbing their credit cards
 and phoning Walton Feed. From a perch 6,000
 feet up in the Idaho mountains, the company
 has grown into one of the nation's largest bulk
 food suppliers. 

 But nervous jitters caused by those disruptions
 are peanuts compared to growing fears that Y2K
 will snarl electric power, telecommunications,
 and the banking system. 

 "Add it all together, and Y2K surpasses
 everything," Portela says. 

 This time it's not just survivalists stockpiling
 sealed barrels from Walton's extensive selection
 of wheat, rice, and other dried foods. 

 "It's common everyday folks, people just like
 you," Portela says of his customers. "We're not
 talking about any radical people." 

 Other food companies have similar bellyaches. 

 "The demand is amazing -- 99.99 percent of the
 people we deal with are preparing for Y2K," says
 Tamera Toups, office manager for
 Montana-based Peace of Mind Essentials." 

 Unlike Walton's, Peace of Mind Essentials
 doesn't boast a storeroom full of towering bins of
 grain. Instead, it places orders that are later
 filled by warehouses. Toups estimates volume
 has leapt 500 percent this year. 

 "If anyone doesn't have an order in by the end of
 April, their chances of getting it before 2000 are
 pretty slim," she said. "The window might be
 even smaller than that." 

You'll still be able to buy bulk food after next
 April, of course. America Inc., a food exporter,
 has plenty of it. But Walton Feed makes a niche
 product prized by Y2Kers: sealed 50-pound
 drums of food with the oxygen removed, a
 process that delays spoilage and eliminates
 grain-munching critters. A year's supply tips the
 scales at 600 pounds and costs $300, plus
 shipping. 

 Trying to procure a diesel generator, on the other
 hand, is shaping up to be increasingly difficult. 

 Loren Day, president of China Diesel Imports,
 spends a good portion of each day puzzling out
 how to crank out more and more generators to
 meet a swell of Y2K orders. Shipments of his
 company's most popular 8,000-watt model are
 already running six months behind. 

 "Orders are up about 1,000 percent since the
 first of the year," Day says. "And the amount of
 people who will want a generator now is nothing
 compared to the amount of people who will want
 a generator later." 

 Day, whose 50-person company is the largest
 US distributor of diesel generators, usually sells
 to rural customers who live beyond the reach of
 electric power lines. 

 "Now with this Y2K thing it's gone crazy," he
 said. He said he now has the both of the world's
 largest generator manufacturers running at near
 capacity to satisfy US demand. 

 Why don't Y2Kers simply pick up a $500
 gasoline generator at Home Depot or their local
 hardware store? Day believes they're so worried
 about the oft-criticized reliability of the portable
 units, that they're willing to pay diesel prices,
 starting at $1,750. 

 "The main thing is the longevity and fuel
 economy of the diesel," he said. Diesel fuel is
 an oil, so it keeps longer than gasoline, which
 spoils after a year. 

Those Y2K consumers who dread running out of
 fuel are also turning to renewable energy. 

 "We're totally swamped by Y2K," said Laura
 Myers, a sales representative for solar
 equipment distributor Sunelco. "We're beginning
 to see some lead times on some of our
 products. By next spring it's going to be insane."

 Sales at the Hamilton, Montana-based Sunelco
 have tripled because of Y2K, Myers said. She
 predicts that orders placed after next spring
 won't arrive until 2000. 

 "It's been a huge increase," said Davy Rippner, a
 vice president at Alternative Energy Engineering,
 a California-based firm. 

 "The things that we're out of and we can't keep
 in stock are the Baygen [hand-cranked] radios
 and the Russian-made hand-dynamo
 flashlights." 

 Then there are the full-blown home solar
 systems, which start at $3,000 and can range
 up to $30,000. 

 "A lot of small installers around the country that
 have been struggling to make a living are now
 booked for months in advance," said Karen
 Perez, who publishes Home Power magazine
 with her husband Richard from the couple's
 off-the-grid home outside of Ashland, Oregon. 

 The Perez family won't do anything to prepare for
 Y2K -- except spend time handling the sharp
 uptick in recent subscriptions to their magazine.

 "We're six miles from the nearest phone and
 power line," she said. "As far as Y2K with us,
 the only thing that I'm planning on doing
 personally is getting a stash of non-hybrid
 seeds." 

 Non-hybrid seeds are particularly prized by
 Y2Kers who stay up nights worrying that
 potential widespread computer crashes could
 disrupt food distribution. Most hardware store
 seeds are hybrid varieties. They grow well, but
 they can be sterile. 

 Since seeds from hybrid plants may not
 germinate, some Y2Kers are stockpiling the
 non-hybrid varieties. 

 "[We've been] getting calls about bulk seeds and
 buying in quantities and packing them for
 storage for some period of time," said Dave
 Smith, vice president of Seeds of Change in
 Santa Fe, New Mexico. 

 "We definitely think that there will be an
 increase in sales because of this problem." 

 Burt Blumert doesn't need to speculate. The
 Burlingame, California, company he owns,
 Camino Coin, has seen sales of precious metal
 coins double from last year because of Y2K
 jitters. "It's widespread now," Blumert said. 

 In May, Blumert began to run ads for a "Y2K Life
 Preserver," a $3,500 collection of coins that
 includes British gold sovereigns, silver dollars,
 and pre-1965 silver dimes and quarters. 

 He markets the collection as a kind of financial
 Y2K insurance policy, just in case banking
 glitches or more widespread problems call for a
 permanent currency. 

 "When people buy gold, they're dropping out,"
 he said. "This is the ultimate dropout, when the
 institutions themselves aren't working." 

 Copyright (c) 1994-98 Wired Digital Inc.
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 07:05:56 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: TOTALITARIAN TECHNOLOGY
Message-ID: <199811072128.NAA19735@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: Bill Kingsbury 
Subject: IP: TOTALITARIAN TECHNOLOGY
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 14:47:59 -0500
To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com

 from:  http://www.newdawnmagazine.com.au/50a.htm=20


 TOTALITARIAN TECHNOLOGY --
 The Truth is Closer Than Fiction
 ---------------------------------
 By SUSAN BRYCE=20

 Over the last decade, Hollywood has sensitised us to totalitarian
 technology. Block buster movies portray our heroes and heroines
 using the weapons of the new millennium. Militarised police forces
 keep citizens safe; android warrior personnel, part human, part
 robot are gainfully employed as global peacekeepers; prisoners are
 incarcerated in high tech electronic jails, controlled with
 implanted microchips, while the free population is kept under
 surveillance through the use of biometric identity systems.=20

 Science fiction perhaps? Reality yes! Much of what we see on the
 big screen is not the latest fantasy of Hollywood script writers,
 but is based on fact. Any film maker wanting a picture of the
 future need look no further than existing military technology and
 research. =20

 A recent report published by the European Parliament, "An Appraisal
 of the Technologies of Political Control", shows just how far these
 new technologies have come, and how they are being actively
 employed against citizens in countries across the globe.=20

 The report warns of "an overall technological and decision drift
 towards world wide convergence of nearly all the technologies of
 political control", including identity recognition; denial;
 surveillance systems based on neural networks; new arrest and
 restraint methods and the emergence of so called `less lethal'
 weapons.=20

 Developments in surveillance technology, innovations in crowd
 control weapons, new prison control systems, the rise of more
 powerful restraint, torture, killing and execution technologies and
 the role of privatised enterprises in promoting such technologies
 pose a grave threat to our immediate and future freedoms.=20


 Trade in Technologies of Control=20

 Cutting edge developments made by the Western military-industrial
 complex are providing invaluable support to various governments
 throughout the world. The report "Big Brother Incorporated", by
 surveillance watchdog Privacy International, presents a detailed
 analysis of the international trade in surveillance technology. =20

 Privacy International says it is concerned about "the flow of
 sophisticated computer-based technology from developed countries to
 developing countries -- and particularly to non-democratic regimes
 where surveillance technologies become tools of political control." =20

 The international trade in surveillance technology (known as the
 Repression Trade), involves the manufacture and export of
 technologies of political control. More than seventy per cent of
 companies manufacturing and exporting surveillance technology also
 export arms, chemical weapons or military hardware.=20

 The justification advanced by the companies involved in this trade
 is identical to the justification advanced in the arms trade --
 i.e.: that the technology is neutral. Privacy International's view
 is that in the absence of legal protection, the technology can
 never be neutral. =20

 As "Big Brother Incorporated" points out, "even those technologies
 intended for `benign' uses rapidly develop more sinister purposes.
 The UK manufactured `Scoot' traffic control cameras in Beijing's
 Tianamen Square were automatically employed as surveillance cameras
 during the student demonstrations. Images captured from the cameras
 were broadcast over Chinese television to ensure that the
 `offending' students were captured." =20

 Privacy International cites numerous cases where this type of
 technology has been obtained for the express purpose of political
 and social control...=20

    -- ICL (International Computers Limited) provided the
       technological infrastructure to establish the South African
       automated Passbook system, upon which much of the function of
       the apartheid regime depended. =20

    -- In the 1980s Israeli company Tadiram developed and exported
       the technology for the computerised death list used by the
       Guatemalan police. =20

    -- Reported human rights abuses in Indonesia -- particularly
       those affecting East Timor -- would not be possible without
       the strategic and technological support of Western companies.
       Among those companies supplying the Indonesian police and
       military with surveillance and targeting technology are
       Morpho Systems (France), De la Ruue Printak (UK), EEV Night
       Vision (UK), ICL (UK), Marconi Radar and Control Systems
       (UK), Pyser (UK), Siemens Plessey Defense Systems (UK),
       Rockwell International Corporation (USA) and SWS Security
       (USA). =20


 Tools of Repression for 'Democratic' States=20

 We should not forget that the same companies supplying regimes with
 repression technology, also supply `democratic' states with their
 totalitarian tools. =20

 Leutcher Associates Inc. of Massachusetts supplies and services
 American gas chambers, as well as designing, supplying and
 installing electric chairs, auto-injection systems and gallows. The
 Leutcher lethal injection system costs approximately $30,000 and is
 the cheapest system the company sells. Their electrocution systems
 cost =A335,000 and a gallows would cost approximately $85,000. More
 and more US states are opting for Leutcher's $100,000 "execution
 trailer" which comes complete with a lethal injection machine, a
 steel holding cell for an inmate, and separate areas for witnesses,
 chaplain, prison workers and medical personnel. Some companies in
 Europe have even offered to supply gallows.=20

 In the 1970's, J.A. Meyer of the US Defense Department suggested a
 countrywide network of transceivers for monitoring all prisoners on
 parole, via an irremovable transponder implant. The idea was that
 parolees movements could be continuously checked and the system
 would facilitate certain areas or hours to be out of bounds, whilst
 having the economic advantage of cutting down on the costs of
 clothing and feeding the prisoner. If prisoners go missing, the
 police could automatically home in on their last position. =20

 Meyer's vision came into operational use in America in the mid
 1980's, when some private prisons started to operate a transponder
 based parole system. The system has now spread into Canada and
 Europe where it is known as electronic tagging. Whilst the logic of
 tagging is difficult to resist, critics argue that the recipients
 of this technology appear not to be offenders who would have been
 imprisoned, but rather low risk offenders who are most likely to be
 released into the community anyway. Because of this, the system is
 not cheaper since the authorities gain the added expense of
 supplying monitoring devices to offenders who would have been
 released anyway. Electronic tagging is however beneficial to the
 companies who sell such systems. Tagging also has a profitable role
 inside prisons in the US and in some prisons, notably, DeKalb
 County Jail near Atlanta, where all prisoners are bar coded.=20


 'Non-Lethal' Technology of Control=20

 The increasing militarisation of police forces throughout the world
 is reflected in the spread of "less lethal" weapons such as pepper
 gas. Benignly referred to by the media as "capsicum spray", pepper
 gas was recently used by Australian police in the state of Victoria
 to subdue a man. According to media reports, the Victorian police
 also used "a weapon they don't want to disclose". =20

 The effects of pepper gas are far more severe than most people
 realise. It is known to cause temporary blindness, a burning
 sensation of the skin which lasts from 45 to 60 minutes, upper body
 spasms which force a person to bend forward and uncontrollable
 coughing making it difficult to breathe or speak for between 3 to
 15 minutes.=20

 For those with asthma or subject to restraining techniques which
 restrict the breathing passages, there is a risk of death. The Los
 Angeles Times has reported at least 61 deaths associated with
 police use of pepper spray since 1990 in the USA, and the American
 Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) has documented 27 deaths in custody of
 people sprayed with pepper gas in California alone, since 1993.=20

 The US Army concluded in a 1993 Aberdeen Proving Ground study that
 pepper spray could cause "Mutagenic effects, carcinogenic effects,
 sensitization, cardiovascular and pulmonary toxicity,
 neuro-toxicity, as well as possible human fatalities." =20

 The existing arsenal of weapons designed for public order and
 control will soon be joined by a second generation of kinetic,
 chemical, optico-acoustic, and microwave weapons, adding to the
 disabling and paralysing technologies already available. Much of
 the initial work on these new technologies has been undertaken in
 US nuclear laboratories such as Oak Ridge, Lawrence Livermore and
 Los Alamos. The European Parliament Report "An Appraisal of the
 Technologies of Political Control" lists a Pandora's box of new
 technologies including:=20

    -- Ultra-sound generators, which cause disorientation, vomiting
       and involuntary defecation, disturbing the ear system which
       controls balance and inducing nausea. The system which uses
       two speakers can target individuals in a crowd. =20

    -- Visual stimulus and illusion techniques such as high
       intensity strobes which pulse in the critical epileptic
       fit-inducing flashing frequency and holograms used to project
       active camouflage. =20

    -- Reduced energy kinetic weapons. Variants on the bean bag
       philosophy which ostensibly will result in no damage (similar
       claims were once made about plastic bullets). =20

    -- New disabling, calmative, sleep inducing agents mixed with
       DMSO which enables the agent to quickly cross the skin
       barrier and an extensive range of pain causing, paralysing
       and foul-smelling area-denial chemicals. Some of these are
       chemically engineered variants of the heroin molecule. They
       work extremely rapidly, one touch and disablement follows.
       Yet one person's tranquillisation may be another's lethal
       dose. =20

    -- Microwave and acoustic disabling systems. =20

    -- Human capture nets which can be laced with chemical irritant
       or electrified to pack an extra disabling punch. =20

    -- Lick `em and stick `em technology such as the Sandia National
       Laboratory's foam gun which expands to between 35-50 times
       its original volume. Its extremely sticky, gluing together
       any target's feet and hands to the pavement. =20

    -- Aqueous barrier foam which can be laced with pepper spray. =20

    -- Blinding laser weapons and isotrophic radiator shells which
       use superheated gaseous plasma to produce a dazzling burst of
       laser like light. =20

    -- Thermal guns which incapacitate through a wall by raising
       body temperature to 107 degrees. =20

    -- Magnetosphere gun which delivers what feels like a blow to
       the head. =20

 "An Appraisal of the Technologies of Political Control" says "we
 are no longer at a theoretical stage with these weapons. US
 companies are already piloting new systems, lobbying hard and where
 possible, laying down potentially lucrative patents." For example,
 last year New Scientist reported that the American Technology
 Corporation (ATC) of Poway, California has used what it calls
 acoustical heterodyning technology to target individuals in a crowd
 with infra-sound to pinpoint an individual 200-300 metres away. The
 system can also project sonic holograms which can conjure audio
 messages out of thin air so just one person hears them. Meanwhile,
 Jane's reported that the US Army Research Laboratory has produced a
 variable velocity rifle for lethal or non lethal use -- a new twist
 to flexible response. Other companies are promoting robots for use
 in riot and prison control.=20


 Advances in Biometric Identification=20

 Through the inevitability of gradualness, repression technology, in
 the form of biometric identity systems, is permeating our every day
 life. Biometry involves using a physical characteristic such as a
 fingerprint, palm print, iris or retina scan to identify
 individuals. These unique identity charact-eristics are digitally
 stored on a computer system for verification. This way, the
 identity of each person can be compared to the stored original.
 Christians will be interested to note that with biometric systems,
 the original print is stored not as a `picture' but as an
 algorithm. The number of your name will be literally in your hand
 (thumb print) or in your forehead (eyes).=20

 Biometric identification is not something that we just see at the
 movies. It is here, it is with us now. Governments in Australia,
 the USA and the UK are planning its widespread introduction by
 2005. =20

 Both the Dutch and Australian public rejected plans for a national
 information and identification scheme en masse several years ago,
 but have reacted more passively to equally intrusive (but less
 blatant) schemes in the 1990's.=20

 Uses of the Social Security Number in the USA, the Social Insurance
 Number in Canada, the Tax File Number in Australia, the SOFI Number
 in the Netherlands and the Austrian Social Security Number have
 been extended progressively to include taxation, unemployment
 support, pensioner benefits and, in some cases, health and higher
 education. Functional creep is rampant.=20

 Large scale government computer based schemes have been shown in
 several countries to be much less cost-effective than was
 originally estimated. Years after the governments of the United
 States and Australia developed schemes to match public sector data,
 there is still no clear evidence that the strategy has succeeded in
 achieving its goals. The audit agencies of both federal governments
 have cast doubt that computer matching schemes deliver savings. =20

 A nationwide survey by Columbia University last year reported that
 83% of people approve of the use of finger imaging. Biometrics is
 being embraced on a global scale. The Australian company,
 Fingerscan, a subsidiary of Californian based Identix Inc, recently
 won one of the biggest bank contracts for biometric security in the
 world. Fingerscan is working with the Bank of Central Asia in
 Jakarta, Indonesia to replace numeric passwords for employees at
 5000 branches with fingerprint based system access.=20

 Fingerscan also has the world's largest application of biometrics
 in the servicing of automated teller machines. In conjunction with
 contractor Armaguard, which services ATMs for Australian banks,
 many ATMs are now unlocked by the representative's fingerprint. The
 representative brings a portable scanning device that plugs into
 the back of the ATM and connects the bank's server which grants him
 or her admittance. =20

 The US government has a deadline of 1999 to implement electronic
 benefits processing for welfare recipients, but this may be delayed
 to accommodate biometrics, which is currently being piloted in five
 American states. The Australian government will introduce a
 biometric identity system for welfare recipients by 2005.=20

 Blue Cross and Blue Shield in the USA have plans to introduce
 nationwide fingerprinting for hospital patients. This may be
 extended into other medical applications. The Jamaican Government
 is planning to introduce electronic thumb scanning to control
 elections. Social Security verification using biometrics is used in
 Spain and South Africa. In 1994, the UK Department of Social
 Security developed a proposal to introduce a national
 identification card, which recommended a computerised database of
 the hand-prints of all 30 million people receiving government
 income assistance. =20


 Big Brother's International Network of Surveillance=20

 Biometric identification is the technology of today and the future.
 It is not a matter of if, but when, a global network of computers
 will link all stored biometric images in a central location,
 managed by a collective of international authorities. =20

 In 1994, under the leadership of US Centre for Strategic and
 International Studies (CSIS), a consortium of the world's leading
 companies formed the Global Information Infrastructure Commission
 (GIIC). Headed by the president of Mitsubishi, the chair of EDS,
 and the vice chair of Siemens Corporation, the GIIC intends to
 create a conglomerate of interests powerful enough to subsume
 government interest in the regulation of biometric and other
 technologies. The effort is being funded to a large extent by the
 World Bank.=20

 Governments in 26 countries are, at this moment, monitoring and
 cooperating with project FAST (Future Automated Screening for
 Travelers). FAST was first piloted in 1993 by US immigration
 authorities when a new lane at New York's John F. Kennedy airport
 was opened. The technology for the system is known as INPASS
 (Immigration and Natur-alization Service Passenger Accelerated
 Service System) which is a biometric identification system used to
 expedite passengers through customs at international airports in as
 little as 20 seconds.=20

 Applicants for registration with FAST are interviewed, and identity
 confirmed. Hand prints are taken, converted to a template and
 stored digitally on a smart card. Once the last of five green
 lights appear at the tips of the fingers, the glass exit door opens
 and the passenger continues to the baggage claim and customs zone.
 The system is currently a voluntary trial for frequent travellers
 to and from the USA who are US or Canadian nationals. =20

 With new technology, travelers can rest assured that their security
 is always in good hands. The US Militech Corporation has developed
 a Passive Millimeter Wave Imaging system, which can scan people
 from up to 12 feet away and see through clothing to detect
 concealed items such as weapons, packages and other contraband.
 Variations of this through-clothing human screening are under
 development by companies such as the US Raytheon Corporation, and
 will be an irresistible addition to international airports
 everywhere.=20

 Once upon a time, surveillance was targeted at certain groups and
 individuals. In our time, surveillance occurs en masse. Much of the
 `harmless' computer based technology necessary for our daily lives
 could actually be used to keep the entire population under
 surveillance. =20

 Telephone systems lend themselves to a dual role as a national
 interceptions network, according to "An Appraisal of the
 Technologies of Political Control". For example, the message
 switching system used on digital exchanges like System X in the UK,
 supports an Integrated Services Digital Network (ISDN) Protocol.
 This allows digital devices, e.g. faxes, to share the system with
 existing lines. The ISDN subset is defined in their documents as
 "Signaling CCITT"-series interface for ISDN access. =20

 What is not widely known is that built-in to the international
 CCITT protocol is the ability to take phones `off hook' and listen
 into conversations occurring near the phone, without the user being
 aware that it is happening. This effectively means that a national
 dial up telephone tapping capacity is built into these systems from
 the start. Further, the digital technology required to pinpoint
 mobile phone users for incoming calls means that all mobile phones
 in a country when activated, are mini-tracking devices.=20

 The issues surrounding the uncontrolled and unregulated spread of
 tyrannical technology are immediate and ongoing. The technologies
 of repression that are trialed in so-called non-democratic
 countries are now being aggressively marketed in the West, while
 Hitler's Germany becomes a vague memory. It is up to us to do what
 ever we can to stop the insidious spread of this technology, and to
 demand the right to choose whether we participate in the biometric
 system or not. We should ask ourselves... who will heed our cry for
 help once these technologies are fully implemented? =20


 REFERENCES=20

 Davies, Simon, "Touching Big Brother", Information Technology
 People, Vol 7, No 4, 1994=20

 Elllerman, Sarah, "The Rise of Tempest", Internet Underground
 Magazine, June 1996.=20

 European Parliament, Scientific and Technical Operations
 Assessment, 1998, "An Appraisal of Technologies of Political
 Control", available at http://jya.com/stoa-atpc.com=20

 Jane's US Military R & D, "Human Computer Interface, Vol 1, Issue 3
 1997=20

 O'Sullivan, Olara, "Biometrics comes to Life",
 http://www.banking.com/aba/cover_0197.htm=20

 Privacy International, 1995, "Big Brother Incorporated",
 http://www.privacy.org/pi=20

 US Scientific Advisory Board, "New World Vistas", the proceedings
 of Fiftieth Anniversary Symposium of the USAF SAB, November 10,
 1994, (republished by International Committee for the Convention
 Against Offensive Microwave Weapons).=20



 Susan Bryce is an investigative journalist and researcher whose
 interests include issues which affect individual freedom,
 environmental health, surveillance technology and global politics.
 She can be contacted c/- Mapleton Post Office, QLD 4560


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 05:53:08 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 6.14: Anonymous eCash Provider-DigiCash-Files Chapter 11
Message-ID: <199811072128.NAA19746@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: "ama-gi ISPI" 
Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 6.14: Anonymous eCash Provider-DigiCash-Files Chapter 11
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 00:19:06 -0800
To: 

ISPI Clips 6.14: Anonymous eCash Provider-DigiCash-Files Chapter 11
News & Info from the Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI)
Friday November 6, 1998
ISPI4Privacy@ama-gi.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This From: CNET News.com, November 4, 1998
http://www.news.com

DigiCash Files Chapter 11
http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,28360,00.html?st.ne.4.head

By
Tim Clark, timc@cnet.com
Staff Writer, CNET News.com

Electronic-cash pioneer DigiCash [ http://www.digicash.com/ ] said today
it's filing for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection after shrinking its
payroll to about six people from nearly 50 in February.

The company, which has been running off a bridge loan from its venture
capital investors since June, is seeking new investors from established
financial institutions or a buyer for its software technology. The
company's operations in the Netherlands, where it was founded, were
liquidated in September.

"To really launch and brand something like this in the Internet space is
likely to take a fair amount more capital," said Scott Loftesness,
DigiCash's interim CEO since August. "It's more appropriate for strategic
investors, corporate players or banks themselves as a consortium model."

Electronic-cash schemes have found difficult sledding recently. First
Virtual Holdings
[ http://www.firstvirtual.com/ ], which had a form of e-cash, exited the
business in July. CyberCash's [ http://www.cybercash.com/ ] CyberCoin
offering hasn't really caught on. Digital Equipment, now part of Compaq
Computer [ http://www.compaq.com/ ] is testing its Millicent electronic
cash, and IBM [ http://www.ibm.com/ ] is in early trials for a product
called Minipay.

Under bankruptcy laws, DigiCash's Chapter 11 filing allows the company to
continue operations, while keeping its creditors at bay as the company
reorganizes. Most of DigiCash's $4 million in debt is owed to its initial
venture capital financiers who extended the bridge loan, August Capital
http://www.augustcap.com/ ], Applied Technology, and Dutch investment firm
Gilde Investment.

DigiCash's eCash allows consumers to make anonymous payments of any
amount--and anonymity differentiates eCash against other e-cash schemes.
DigiCash's intellectual property assets include patents, protocols, and
software systems that also could be used for applications, like online
electronic voting or private scrip issued by a particular retailer.

DigiCash suffered a setback in September when the only U.S. bank offering
its scheme, Mark Twain Bank, dropped the offering. But a number of major
banks in Europe and Australia offer or are testing DigiCash's electronic
cash.

Also in September, DigiCash closed its Dutch operations and liquidated its
assets there.

Loftesness said DigiCash has a list of 35-40 potential partners, and he has
been talking to players like IBM for months. He expects to resolve
DigiCash's status in the next five months.

"Everybody feels anonymous e-cash is inevitable, but the existing situation
was not going to get there from here," said Loftesness, who is frustrated
by potential partners telling him, "This is absolutely strategic, but
unfortunately it's not urgent."

The company was founded by David Chaum and was well-known in the Internet's
earliest days. MIT Media Labs' Nicholas Negroponte is a director of
DigiCash.

Copyright (c) 1995-98 CNET, Inc.

--------------------------------NOTICE:------------------------------
ISPI Clips are news & opinion articles on privacy issues from
all points of view; they are clipped from local, national and international
newspapers, journals and magazines, etc. Inclusion as an ISPI Clip
does not necessarily reflect an endorsement of the content or opinion
by ISPI. In compliance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed free without profit or payment for non-profit research
and educational purposes only.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

ISPI Clips is a FREE e-mail service from the "Institute for the Study
of Privacy Issues" (ISPI). To receive "ISPI Clips" on a regular bases
(up to 3 - 8 clips per day) send the following message  "Please
enter [Your Name] into the ISPI Clips list: [Your e-mail address]" to:
ISPIClips@ama-gi.com  .

The Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) is a small
contributor-funded organization based in Victoria, British Columbia
(Canada). ISPI operates on a not-for-profit basis, accepts no
government funding and takes a global perspective.

ISPI's mandate is to conduct & promote interdisciplinary research
into electronic, personal and  financial privacy with a view toward
helping ordinary people understand the degree of privacy they have
with respect to government, industry and each other and to likewise
inform them about techniques to enhance their privacy.

But, none of this can be accomplished without your kind and
generous financial support. If you are concerned about the erosion
of your privacy in general, won't you please help us continue this
important work by becoming an "ISPI Supporter" or by taking out
an institute Membership?

We gratefully accept all contributions:

  Less than $60    ISPI Supporter
          $60 - $99    Primary ISPI Membership (1 year)
      $100 - $300    Senior ISPI Membership (2 years)
More than $300    Executive Council Membership (life)

Your ISPI "membership" contribution entitles you to receive "The ISPI
Privacy Reporter" (our bi-monthly 12 page hard-copy newsletter in
multi-contributor format) for the duration of your membership.

For a contribution form with postal instructions please send the following
message "ISPI Contribution Form" to ISPI4Privacy@ama-gi.com .

We maintain a strict privacy policy. Any information you divulge to ISPI
is kept in strict confidence. It will not be sold, lent or given away to
any third party.









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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 07:09:21 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 6.17: FCC Accepting Comments on Mandatory Cell Phone Tracking
Message-ID: <199811072128.NAA19757@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: "ama-gi ISPI" 
Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 6.17: FCC Accepting Comments on Mandatory Cell Phone Tracking
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 00:26:49 -0800
To: 

ISPI Clips 6.17: FCC Accepting Comments on Mandatory Cell Phone Tracking
News & Info from the Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI)
Friday November 6, 1998
ISPI4Privacy@ama-gi.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Part One:

This From: Coalition for Constitutional Liberties, Weekly Update for
11/06/98
                    Volume I, Number 37
http://www.freecongress.org/cfcl/latest.htm

Comment Period for CALEA Wiretapping Regulations Announced

The Federal Communications Commission announced this week that it would
be accepting comments in response to its Notice of Proposed Rule Making
until December 14th. The Commission proposed requiring cellular and
other wireless phone companies to track the location of their customers,
identifying the cell site at the beginning and end of every call. Weekly
Update readers and organizations are encouraged to submit their written
comments to the FCC:

Federal Communications Commission
1919 M St.
Washington, DC 20554
Re: Docket # 97-213


The Center for Democracy and Technology has set up a website for those
interested in filing comments: http://www.cdt.org/action/filing.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Part Two:

This From: The Center for Democracy and Technology, October 28, 1998
http://www.cdt.org

FCC PROPOSES LOCATION TRACKING FOR WIRELESS PHONES
http://www.cdt.org/action/filing.html

As the FBI has realized, new communications technology can be designed in
ways that vastly increase the potential for government surveillance.
Cellular and other wireless phones can generate information that can be
used to locate individuals even if they aren't suspected of a crime.

The FCC, with urging from the FBI, is considering a proposal to use your
cellphone as a personal tracking device. This unprecedented attack on your
privacy must be opposed.

Cellular phones have become integral to many peoples' lives. Over fifty
million ordinary Americans carry cellular phones with them as they go about
their daily activities. Cellular phones are far more closely linked to an
individual than are wireline phones. In essense, a cellular phone can
become a tracking device, revealing to the government far more about your
whereabouts, your associations, and your activities than the government can
learn about you from the fact that your home phone was used to make a call
a particular time of day.

In 1994, when this topic was being debated in Congress, FBI Director Freeh
testified that location information was not mandated by law. FBI Director
Freeh testified that the law, "does not include any information which might
disclose the general location of a mobile facility or service."

Congress wanted to protect privacy, and took the FBI at its word that it
would not seek to use cellphones as citizen tracking devices.

Now the FCC, with urging from the FBI, is proposing to rewrite the law,
requiring location information as part of a nationwide surveillance
capability. This will allow the FBI to use your cellphone as a personal
tracking device.

--------------------------------NOTICE:------------------------------
ISPI Clips are news & opinion articles on privacy issues from
all points of view; they are clipped from local, national and international
newspapers, journals and magazines, etc. Inclusion as an ISPI Clip
does not necessarily reflect an endorsement of the content or opinion
by ISPI. In compliance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed free without profit or payment for non-profit research
and educational purposes only.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

ISPI Clips is a FREE e-mail service from the "Institute for the Study
of Privacy Issues" (ISPI). To receive "ISPI Clips" on a regular bases
(up to 3 - 8 clips per day) send the following message  "Please
enter [Your Name] into the ISPI Clips list: [Your e-mail address]" to:
ISPIClips@ama-gi.com  .

The Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) is a small
contributor-funded organization based in Victoria, British Columbia
(Canada). ISPI operates on a not-for-profit basis, accepts no
government funding and takes a global perspective.

ISPI's mandate is to conduct & promote interdisciplinary research
into electronic, personal and  financial privacy with a view toward
helping ordinary people understand the degree of privacy they have
with respect to government, industry and each other and to likewise
inform them about techniques to enhance their privacy.

But, none of this can be accomplished without your kind and
generous financial support. If you are concerned about the erosion
of your privacy in general, won't you please help us continue this
important work by becoming an "ISPI Supporter" or by taking out
an institute Membership?

We gratefully accept all contributions:

  Less than $60    ISPI Supporter
          $60 - $99    Primary ISPI Membership (1 year)
      $100 - $300    Senior ISPI Membership (2 years)
More than $300    Executive Council Membership (life)

Your ISPI "membership" contribution entitles you to receive "The ISPI
Privacy Reporter" (our bi-monthly 12 page hard-copy newsletter in
multi-contributor format) for the duration of your membership.

For a contribution form with postal instructions please send the following
message "ISPI Contribution Form" to ISPI4Privacy@ama-gi.com .

We maintain a strict privacy policy. Any information you divulge to ISPI
is kept in strict confidence. It will not be sold, lent or given away to
any third party.








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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 07:05:43 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Discover Alien Life With Your PC And SETI
Message-ID: <199811072128.NAA19768@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: Richard Sampson 
Subject: IP: Discover Alien Life With Your PC And SETI
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 08:09:03 -0500
To: "ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com" 

****Discover Alien Life With Your PC And SETI
 TOKYO, JAPAN, 1998 NOV 5 (Newsbytes) -- By Martyn Williams, Newsbytes.
The SETI@home project, which hopes to harness the idle processing power
of thousands of desktop personal computers to help in the search for
intelligent life in the universe, is back on track with an April 1999
launch date.

The project was launched in mid 1997 and was scheduled to begin
operations early this year (Newsbytes, August 18, 1997) but the launch
was delayed after funding problems slowed research and development
work. Now, with new funding and hardware donated by Sun Microsystems,
the project is back on track.

Hoping to attract the millions of computer users that believe in the
existence of intelligent life in space, the project will be based
around a special screensaver. Like any screensaver, the software kicks
in when you aren't using your PC but unlike other software, the
SETI@home application won't present you with a banal selection of
flying windows of swimming fish.

Instead, it will be doing something much more useful: analyzing radio
frequency spectrum data captured by the Arecibo radio telescope in
Puerto Rico. The analysis is searching for a signal out of all the
noise from space - a signal that may reveal the existence of
intelligent life.

The project team estimates that once 50,000 PCs are enrolled in the
project, the SETI@home program will rival other similar SETI (search
for extraterrestrial intelligence) programs that are looking for
signals from space and may turn up signals that would otherwise be
missed.

The program works like this: data is collected from SERENDIP, a SETI
project based at UC Berkeley, on magnetic tape and transferred to
SETI@home servers. This data is then distributed to participating PC
users as they log onto the Internet and the data is analyzed on their
PCs. Once finished, the results are returned to the project servers via
the Internet.

First tests of the system, with 100 volunteers, has just begun and
the project hopes to make available the first generation SETI@home
screensavers in April 1999. These will be available for Windows, Apple
and Unix based platforms.

What's in it for the user? Apart from helping science, the team says,
"There's a small but captivating possibility that your computer will
detect the faint murmur of a civilization beyond Earth."

For more information on the project, how to offer your spare computer
capacity and how to donate money, check the SETI@home Web page at
http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu . Numerous foreign language versions
of the page are also available.

Reported By Newsbytes News Network, http://www.newsbytes.com

-0-

(19981105/WIRES ONLINE/)


News provided by COMTEX.
[!BUSINESS] [!HIGHTECH] [!INFOTECH] [!PUBLIC+COMPANIES] [!WALL+STREET]
[COMPUTER] [HARDWARE] [INTERNET] [JAPAN] [MONEY] [NBY] [NEWS] [NEWSGRID]
[PUERTO+RICO] [RADIO] [RESEARCH] [SCIENCE] [SOFTWARE] [TOKYO]


--
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a
prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------



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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 04:05:35 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Identification and Privacy are not Antinomies (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811071943.NAA02441@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 20:26:24 +0100
> From: Anonymous 
> Subject: Identification and Privacy are not Antinomies

> Am I a UK citizen, a good credit risk, a club member in good
> standing, etc.  An appropriate mechanism, a smartcard, can easily 
> authenticate both itself (challenge-response) and the bearer via a biometric 
> and/or PIN without revealing the identity of the holder.
> 
> However, who holds out hope that such a sensible
> thing would ever be adopted by the powers-that-be.

What the powers-that-be hold is realy irrelevant. The issue is what do we do
to make sure that the powers-that-are-to-be don't have that option?


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 04:16:34 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Head of U.S. Internet Policy Plans to Resign: Magaziner
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Delivered-To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
X-Sender: believer@telepath.com
Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 09:05:02 -0600
To: believer@telepath.com
From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Head of U.S. Internet Policy Plans to Resign: Magaziner
Mime-Version: 1.0
Sender: owner-ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com
Precedence: list
Reply-To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  New York Times
http://www.nytimes.com/library/tech/yr/mo/cyber/articles/07magaziner.html

November 6, 1998

Magaziner, Head of U.S. Internet Policy, Plans to Resign

By JERI CLAUSING

ASHINGTON -- Ira C. Magaziner, who has led the Clinton
Administration's efforts to foster the growth of the Internet and
electronic commerce, said today that he plans to leave the White House
before the end of the year.

Magaziner said he has not set a departure
date or made any firm plans for his future,
but he hopes to wrap up his duties within
the next month and move back to New
England. His family moved there a year ago,
he said, and he has been commuting since
then.

"I felt a responsibility to follow through on
what we had committed," Magaziner said.
"And we have had some good successes."

Magaziner joined the Clinton Administration
five and a half years ago to draft what
turned out to be a doomed effort to
restructure the nation's health care system.
He then turned to the Internet, where he has been aggressively trying to
shape domestic and international policy for electronic commerce and
governance of the Internet.

"At a time when there was a lot of confusion about where the [Internet]
industry was going both domestically and internationally, Ira Magaziner
was the guy who rolled up his sleeves and got into the nitty-gritty of how
technology works, what the effect would be on our society, and then
took those notions and began to be the evangelist for the Internet industry
in a global marketplace," said Brian O'Shaughnessy, spokesman for the
Internet Alliance, one of the world's largest associations of companies
with Internet interests.

"He's a cerebral guy who took these intellectual ideas and wrestled a lot
of very powerful forces to the table... He's certainly been the champion
for [Internet] self-governance."

In June 1997, after studying the Internet for 15 months, Magaziner
released the Administration's "Framework for Electronic Commerce,"
which called for a hands-off, market-driven approach to regulation of the
global network. Magaziner's philosophy then and now is that while the
Internet is growing rapidly, this growth could be stymied by excessive
government intervention.

"For this potential to be realized fully," he wrote in that report,
"governments must adopt a nonregulatory, market-oriented approach to
electronic commerce, one that facilitates the emergence of a transparent
and predictable legal environment to support global business and
commerce. Official decision makers must respect the unique nature of the
medium and recognize that widespread competition and increased
consumer choice should be the defining features of the new digital
marketplace."

Since then, he has led efforts to hand administration of the global network
over to the private sector, and has traveled the world pushing other
countries to endorse his tax-free, unregulated approach to the new
medium.

Magaziner said he is satisfied that he has put the issue of electronic
commerce on the world's agenda. In addition to winning passage of two
new laws imposing a moratorium on new Internet taxes in the United
States and protecting copyrights in the digital age, he has won
international agreements to keep the Internet duty-free and set standards
for international payment systems.

He is also wrapping up what has been a highly contentious effort to hand
the administrative functions of the Internet's name and address system
over to a private corporation.

But as he announces his departure, Magaziner has left one important
issue -- online privacy -- unresolved.

Magaziner has been the lead cheerleader for industry self-regulation on
how personal data is collected and used in electronic databases, a
controversial stance that has put the United States directly at odds with
the European Union and one that threatens to disrupt electronic
commerce with those countries.

Critics say he has ignored consumer interests in favor of business.
However, others laud his refusal to back down.

"Ira...has been working long and hard on behalf of self-governance and
not letting the E.U. data directive simply become the rule of the day,"
O'Shaughnessy said.

The European directive that took effect last month imposes strict privacy
policies on companies that do business in Europe. A key provision of that
law prohibits any company doing business in the European Union from
transmitting personal data to any country that does not guarantee
comparable privacy protections.

The European Union has said that self-regulatory models adopted by
industry groups in the United States do not meet its requirements. It has
held off on imposing sanctions against the United States until at least
December while the governments involved attempt to negotiate a
compromise.

The Commerce Department this week laid out its negotiating position,
which proposes giving companies a variety of "safe harbors" to satisfy
privacy protection. One idea is to create independent organizations that
would monitor a company's data practices and give companies that
comply with accepted guidelines what amounts to a stamp of approval.

The E.U. has so far rejected that plan. But Magaziner said the
Administration has scored a victory in getting the E.U. to agree to discuss
self-regulation as a remedy.

"They agreed to hold back, and we are still discussing it with them," he
said. "We got them to recognize in February self-regulation as being
legitimate. So under their own direction they are saying self-regulatory
approaches can work. Now we have to get them to agree to recognize
what we are proposing. That may not be finished by the time I leave, but
it will be well along."

Magaziner has also been leading the effort to move administration of the
Internet to an international, nonprofit corporation. That power had been
exercised by the United States government -- at first directly, and in
recent years under a government contract granting a monopoly on
domain name registrations to Network Solutions, a corporation based in
Herndon, Va.

A driving force toward creation of the new board was the demand by
private companies around the world that they be allowed to compete
with Network Solutions in the lucrative business of registering domain
names.

But finding a solution that balances the interests of more traditional,
academic institutions with trademark holders and commercial entities with
a huge stake in the future of electronic commerce proved difficult, and
much controversy still surrounds the plan that Magaziner hopes to finalize
this month.

Last month, the Administration tentatively
approved handing the reins of the Internet over
to the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names
and Numbers (ICANN).

This new corporation was set up largely under
the direction of one of the Internet's founders,
the late Jon Postel. Although the ICANN proposal was presented as
having "the support of a broad consensus of Internet stakeholders,
private and public," several groups have complained that it was
hammered out in secret and still lacks proper fiscal controls and
appropriate power checks on future board members.

The Department of Commerce has asked the nine-member interim board
of ICANN to craft new bylaws that address those concerns, a proposal
that is expected to be completed within the next week and which will be
the topic of a public meeting next week in Cambridge, Mass.

 Copyright 1998 The New York Times Company
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------


****************************************************
To subscribe or unsubscribe, email:
     majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com
with the message:
     (un)subscribe ignition-point email@address

or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email@address
****************************************************
www.telepath.com/believer
****************************************************

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 04:16:17 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: A question about the new ISP ruling and email...
Message-ID: <199811071956.OAA15936@panix7.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



   >   From: Jim Choate 
   >
   >   Hi,
   >
   >   I was pondering the draconian implications of the requirement to register
   >   ISP's. Would an email only site be an ISP under these regulations?

I dunno.

But I've begun netcopping the Ignition-Point list on
an ongoing basis (starting Friday), and they'll be
an interesting test case of whether what they're
doing is "fair use".

Pobox.com/listbox.com is reluctantly assigning a person
to receive (my) copyright complaints, and will register
themselves with the FCO.

I like to post whole articles myself.

Anyway, for a test case, better them than me.

---guy ;-)




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 05:26:00 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: A question about the new ISP ruling and email...
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Now *this* should be fun. Someone who claims to be a cypherpunk is now
going to call the copyright police on a non-profit, volunteer news list.

Cryptoanarchy indeed. The ganglia twitch.

When the going gets tough, the "tough" rat out the innocent, it appears...

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga

--- begin forwarded text


From: Information Security 
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 14:56:55 -0500 (EST)
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: A question about the new ISP ruling and email...
Sender: owner-cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Precedence: first-class
Reply-To: Information Security 
X-Loop: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net

   >   From: Jim Choate 
   >
   >   Hi,
   >
   >   I was pondering the draconian implications of the requirement to
register
   >   ISP's. Would an email only site be an ISP under these regulations?

I dunno.

But I've begun netcopping the Ignition-Point list on
an ongoing basis (starting Friday), and they'll be
an interesting test case of whether what they're
doing is "fair use".

Pobox.com/listbox.com is reluctantly assigning a person
to receive (my) copyright complaints, and will register
themselves with the FCO.

I like to post whole articles myself.

Anyway, for a test case, better them than me.

---guy ;-)

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Austin Hill" 
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 05:55:16 +0800
To: 
Subject: re: Response to Anonymous re: Zero-Knowledge Freedom
In-Reply-To: <1c2f85724bce6d742c27daa1db101d10@anonymous>
Message-ID: <000e01be0a93$49b017a0$1901a8c0@austin.zks.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Attn: Anonymous

Thank you for your comments with regards to the Freedom project.   I
would like to respond to some of the points you have brought up.


>-----Original Message-----
>From: HyperReal-Anon [mailto:nobody@sind.hyperreal.art.pl]
>Sent: Friday, November 06, 1998 7:30 PM
>To: austin@zks.net
>Subject: 
>
>
>Attn: Austin Hill
>Zero Knowledge Systems, Inc.
>3981 St. Laurent Blvd. 
>Suite 810 
>Montr=E9al, Qu=E9bec 
>H2W 1Y5 
>Canada 
>514.286.2636 phone 
>514.286.2755 fax 
>
>Mr. Hill:
>
>Congratulations. I hope your name goes down in history for being
>involved in creating and operating FREEDOM.net
>
>Additional suggestions for the FREEDOM.NET concept:
>
>1) Undoubtedly, after your client software is developed and deployed
>there will be nations run by legislators and politicians with evil
>intentions to continue to restrict and sabotage the privacy of
>individuals. If your software already has flexible measures coded
into
>it to counter these evil forces, privacy seeking citizens from
>affected nations will prevail.
>
>For the client side software, it would be extremely useful to have a
>feature (or an input field) where users can view their IP hops
>(traceroutes), but more important to allow users to BYPASS all local
>FREEDOM servers in their home country (example: if terrible laws are
>passed like in the Netherlands requiring logging and storage of all
>packet info., etc.). In this manner, a local user in a restrictive
>nation could set their client to BYPASS all local FREEDOM servers,
>accessing only FREEDOM servers in the nearest friendly nation which
>protects privacy of users and allows FREEDOM servers to operate AS
YOU
>DESIGNED THEM.      Even the FSU of Russia has already begun to
>implement "black box" requirements at every ISP (only Internet by
>satellite will bypass this ?)
>
>Example:  
>
> **Bypass local FREEDOM SERVER**
>Enter the IP address of first FREEDOM server to route 
>through__________________________________ (user fills in this blank)
>

Route definitions for use of AnonymousIP nodes is COMPLETELY
configurable.   A user of Freedom can define preferred exit hops (i.e.
'Make all my pseudonyms IP traffic come from country X'); server's to
avoid (i.e. 'Never use any Freedom node in country X'); and some
rather advanced custom configurations (i.e. 'Always make my exit hop
of of the following countries, use the fastest and best routing point
for my first hop and make my middle hop one of the following trusted
nodes')

With regards to countries such as the Netherlands; and Russia these
laws will have no effect on Freedom users.   Since all IP traffic
leaves the local computer anonymized and multiply encrypted with the
different keys for different hops a local ISP that is logging all
traffic as per government rules will only be able to log encrypted
data and be able to reveal that this user is using Freedom.    The
ability to define the destination or content of that Internet traffic
is not possible.    As well, due to the features we have included for
traffic analysis foiling, both packets and links are padded to avoid
traffic correlation's.    Even if an all powerful network attacker
with the ability to watch all incoming and outgoing connections to all
Freedom nodes attempts to correlate traffic patterns, they will not be
able to reveal the true identity behind the pseudonym.

The user interface for controlling the Freedom node selection and some
of these rules is designed to make it COMPLETELY transparent and easy
for the average Internet user.   There will be an advanced mode that
allows more advanced users to built custom routing profiles that they
can associate with a particular pseudonym or with particular
destination sites.  (i.e. Whenever I browse 'www.playboy.com' use
pseudonym 'playboyfan' and routing profile 'Fast routing, no rules
except exit hop cannot be in the following Muslim countries').




>
>2) It is very possible government spy agencies will secretly arrange
>for spy friendly ISP's to obtain your software and setup FREEDOM
>servers in their nation. Then, they could write or modify code to
>intercept and decrypt incoming packets of data BEFORE it hit the
>FREEDOM servers.   Can you write secret "test" code or test packets
>such that you can send out packets from your Canadian headquarters to
>test all FREEDOM servers deployed worldwide to detect all forms of
>tampering, and if detected, send emergency emails and post on
>newgroups the violators ?
>
This is essentially the hostile root/hostile node attack.   Ultimately
we have decided that protecting against a hostile root or node is
infeasible.   (i.e. Whatever attempts we make to make it impossible to
have a hostile node, do not justify themselves because they are not
completely effective)   We do employ some simple protections to try
and avoid amateur hostile nodes (Valid binary checking, periodic
unannounced audits for nodes) but a sophisticated and well financed
attacker could and most likely will operate a number of nodes in the
network.    To compromise the identity behind a pseudonym, an attacker
would have to control or collude with all the nodes you use in a
particular AnonymousIP route.    Since a user by default uses three
hops, and can configure specific nodes that they trust this reduces
the possibility of a single node or a groups of nodes being able to
work to compromise a pseudonyms privacy.

(i.e. If you decide based on reputation to trust Zero-Knowledge, you
might enter into your preferences to always use at least one
Zero-Knowledge server in your AnonymousIP routers.   This means that
as long as that Zero-Knowledge server does not have a hostile root or
that we have not been subverted that your identity is protected.   You
may choose to chain trusted servers (i.e. Use Zero-Knowledge, TOAD.COM
and EFF.ORG servers (TOAD.COM; EFF.ORG are just examples - They are
not to imply that they are currently committed to operate Freedom
nodes) for all my anonymous routes.)

Also because Freedom node operators are rewarded financially to
operate Freedom nodes, we've found incredible interest in the ISP
community to operate Freedom nodes.   This will help to increase the
total number of Freedom nodes in the network, making it that much
harder for a hostile attacker to operate a large percentage of nodes
in the network.  (i.e. 'If there are only 10 nodes in the network,
running 40% of them is quite easy.   If there are 700 nodes in the
network and a user only needs 3 of them, owning enough of those 700
nodes to have a reasonable chance at always being all 3 hops is less
likely.)




>3) Curiously, what if Canadian legislators / politicians create laws
>similar to what the Dutch parliment enacted recently ? Would you move
>your entire company to another nation ? Or, would you have to move
the
>FREEDOM net server headquarters to another nation ? It seems very
>important initially to setup FREEDOM servers in as many nations as
>possible to counteract such attempts to destroy the right to internet
>privacy.

Canada has proven quite committed to the privacy of its citizens and
has demonstrated its support for Canada's growing cryptography
industries.  Many leading cryptography companies are now setup in
Canada and able to export strong cryptography without restriction.  
We believe that Canada will remain a friendly country in which to
develop our products and distribute them around the world.

In the event that the US or another country were able to convince
Canada to ban anonymity/pseudonymity online; or make it illegal to
provide these services there are plans and provisions we have made to
ensure we are able to continue to provide service to our customers.   
Because of the distributed nature of the system, it would take a
global effort among all countries to ban and make Freedom illegal (A
nice soundbyte waiting to happen ;)

The US would have a difficult time (According to our lawyers) passing
a law making anonymity/pseudonymity illegal or banning the domestic
use of encryption products like Freedom.    Ultimately this will be
another example of 'the cats out of the bag'.   There will most likely
be some fights because this will be the first time that completely
pseudonymous digital identities will be accessible to the layman; or
average Internet user - and the technical sophistication of
AnonymousIP with pseudonymous identities mapped on top will pose a
serious challenge for some government initiatives.    But we will be
attempting to educate law enforcement; government officials that this
tool will be the primary and most effective way of protecting children
online (From stalkers and aggressive marketing profiles); protecting
privacy (Both archived histories that we cannot separate ourselves
from; multiple roles we have that are difficult to separate online
right now and privacy from aggressive marketing) and protecting free
speech and human rights on a global level.

For this education process to be effective, we will need to help
government understand that there are better ways of using traditional
law enforcement techniques to accomplish their goals.   This is the
same process that many of the cypherpunks; privacy advocacy groups and
lobbyists have already been doing and we will work on supporting those
efforts.

Initially we will have servers deployed in MANY countries and we have
an aggressive marketing plan to ensure that we have high penetration
of servers very quickly after we release.


>
>4) I urge you to try and think ahead, designing as many
>countermeasures as possible into the first initial version of client
>software, making it as easy as possible for users to circumvent any
>harmful measures taken by the evil forces of the dark side.

We have designed the system to be as versatile as possible and as hard
to shut down as possible.   We have included provisions (Might not be
in version 1, but can be applied very quickly after) to circumvent
country level firewalls or proxy servers so that countries that
attempt to ban all IP traffic to the Freedom network will encounter
many difficulties.   While this is not likely in most North American
or European countries (Although the US many attempt it when they
implement ISP blocking provisions for offshore gambling sites (Online
Gambling Act)and realize that Freedom clients can bypass ISP political
filtering of sites) in certain other countries around the world, the
initial reaction will be to ban Freedom and add it to a list of
filtered sites.    Since some of these countries are the ones that
have citizens who in the most urgent need of unlimited access to Free
Speech, total privacy for their browsing and online activities and the
ability to communicate secretly - we've made it very difficult for any
country to ban our traffic.



>
>5) A PARADOX awaits - Serious privacy advocates will want to "test"
>your system. One such test would be to sign up and operate as as a
>spammer, and use your system to pass on SPAM, or what about malicious
>hackers ? If that person is identified or revealed by you, then your
>system has been revealed as not a true anonymous system, and there
>will be a media feeding frenzy exposing it. But if it IS a truely
>anonymous system, you will have no way to identify and locate
spammers
>or malicious hackers.

The SPAM dilemma was one of the more difficult ones that we faced in
designing the project.   We were aware that if we could not manage the
abuse (Spam, harassment, Anonymous hack attempts) then we would
quickly become 'blackballed' for most services and a few bad apples
could affect all of our legitimate users.    We could not have the
option of knowing who to hold responsible for abuse because that would
include our holding some sort of identity escrow which we specifically
did not want and designed the system to make impossible.   The
alternative we decided on was to invest significantly on making abuse
easier through other networks than the Freedom network.   Some of the
ways we've accomplished this;

- -Designed the entire system around untraceable pseudonymity as opposed
to anonymity.

	This re-enforces the reputation capital aspect of having a pseudonym.
  In general we hope this will promote people who have made an
investment in a pseudonym (Both in time, and money) to be careful
about how badly the affect the online reputation of that pseudonym.

- -Associated a direct cost with a pseudonym

	By having a cost associated with a pseudonym, many people who would
normally take liberties in abusing Internet communication will/do
hesitate, since there is the potential of losing that financial
investment.


- -Forcing 'nymserver' like features of having all outgoing e-mail pass
through the Freedom server, signed by both the pseudonym and the
Freedom network key to avoid forged spam baiting mail.

- -Allowing end users to have destination blocking per recipient and
making it easy for them to request not to receive e-mail from a
particular pseudonym.  (In cases of harassment)

- -Developing sophisticated SPAM blocking systems to make our network
VERY VERY unfriendly to pseudonyms attempting to send SPAM.  (i.e. Max
per day recipients limits of 500 or so people; with the limit
automatically adjusting to deal with averages of all pseudonyms and
number of confirmed spam complaints.)   Bulk mailers will have the
option of purchasing a more expensive pseudonym that removes any daily
limits for recipients but has strict cancellation policies for
unsolicited spam (This enables an underground Zine that publishes
anonymously to sent out an edition every Friday to 15,000 people; but
if someone buys one of the bulk mailing pseudonyms (Around $500+/year)
and abuses by sending a massive SPAM we will confirm the spam
complaints (Based on digital sig on headers and message) and then have
the right to cancel the pseudonyms (Resulting in the Spammer paying
$500+ to deliver one spam to many people then losing that pseudonym.) 
 This makes it cheaper to SPAM from other free services or open mail
relay systems thereby diverting hard core spammers from making the
Freedom network their home.

- -Anonymous Telnet host blocking (Site administrators can work with us
to block anonymous telnet to their sites) allowing certain sites such
as MUDs and Telnet BBS's to allow access but corporate/university
sites to restrict access for anonymous telnet.



We hope with these and other systems we have taken the time to develop
it will help mitigate or reduce the potential of a few malicious users
to harm the legitimate Freedom users.    Ultimately we have only once
choice in dealing with abuse, canceling the pseudonym which will cause
a financial loss for someone as well as killing that 'nym and any
reputation it has gathered.    The terms under which we will cancel a
pseudonym will be very clearly posted, and the only other time is when
a government agency (Canadian) issues us a court order to turn off a
pseudonym.    There is NO MEANS possible for us to reveal the identity
of a user (Thereby avoiding some of the Penet.Fi style attacks).






>
>6) It seems unfortunate that some of the larger, "holier than thou,
>self righteous" worldwide ISP's (like AOL) will be frustrated at
>FREEDOM net not being able to identify who the spammers or hackers
>are, and then BLOCK    FREEDOM net packets from going through their
>servers, starting little electronic wars. These "blocking wars" have
>already occured from time to time.


Hopefully with the abuse management tools we've made available we will
cut off any attempts to block or ban our service.    If certain
domains/admins feel they still wish to ban Freedom traffic we would
work with them to address whatever concerns we can to help restore
good routing relations, but in the end it will be up to our users to
fight for FREEDOM, if anyone attempts to take it away.    Strong
letter writing campaigns, boycotts and media attention should all help
pressure certain organizations to deal with us on any complaints or
issues they have and not treat pseudonyms as second class online
citizens.

Ultimately this service and peoples pseudonymous digital identities
will be as valuable as they make them.   By using them frequently,
lobbying sites to support pseudonymous identities (For instance for
one click authentication and login to web sites), and making sure the
get ALL their friends to use pseudonyms then it becomes REALLY
difficult to shut the service down or silence millions of users.

If there is a small uptake and we only have 100,000 pseudonyms it
would be possible to shut the service down without a lot of noise
(We'll make as much as we can, but ultimately our users have to help).
  With 12 million pseudonyms registered and all of them making as much
noise as possible to fight any attempts to ban Freedom, there will by
a lot more chance of making Freedom completely ubiquitous.

>
>7) It would really be useful for your staff to address questions/
>concerns like these and others by creating pages regarding these
>matters on your website.

Hopefully, you are on some of the lists that I am responding to your
e-mail with.   Most of this information will be posted in time to our
web site, but the FAQ's and whitepapers describing most of this are
not ready for publication on the web yet.

>
>
>Anonymously Yours,
>
>P.S. I will only feel comfortable revealing my anonymous self to you
>by way of my psuedonym, when I sign up with your service, which I
hope
>to do as soon as FREEDOM net is ready.
>
>

Thanks for the interest and comments.   I hope I've been able to
answer most of your questions.




________________________________________________________________________
_
Austin Hill                                   Zero-Knowledge Systems
Inc.
President                                                Montreal,
Quebec
Phone: 514.286.2636 Ext. 226                            Fax:
514.286.2755
E-mail: austin@zks.net                                
http://www.zks.net

             Zero Knowledge Systems Inc. - Nothing Personal
			Changing the world with Zero Knowledge

PGP Fingerprints
2.6.3i = 3F 42 A2 0D AF 78 20 ED  A2 BB AD BE 8B 40 5E 64
5.5.3i = 77 1E 62 21 B3 F0 EB C0  AA 6C 65 30 56 CA BA C4 94 26 EC 00
keys available at 
http://www.nai.com/products/security/public_keys/pub_key_default.asp

________________________________________________________________________
_ 


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Version: PGPfreeware 5.5.3i for non-commercial use 

iQA/AwUBNkS3qlbKusSUJuwAEQJzNACg7TTSDuipjmCrT78WMWKskdOkzgQAnAnq
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=paSA
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Steve Schear 
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 09:42:46 +0800
To: Robert Hettinga 
Subject: Re: ISPs now responsible for Pirated Material
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 07:29:38 -0500
>To: general@la-ma.org
>From: Doug Krick 
>Subject: ISPs now responsible for Pirated Material
>Mime-Version: 1.0
>Sender: owner-general@la-ma.org
>Precedence: bulk
>
>http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,28357,00.html?st.ne.fd.mdh
>
>Summary:  IF a local ISP doesn't register with the goverment, per a new law
>Clinton signed this week, the ISP can be held legally responsible for any
>pirated material that may be on their site.

Not really a problem. Its one thing to require a contact person. It's quite
another to get an ISP to provide sufficient resources to adequately police
its feed. In many of the Usenet .warez. groups, for example, postings
expire after only a few hours/days. By the time action is taken its gone
anyway.

The ISPs made a very good argument, in the SC CDA hearings, that policing
their feeds and access was impractical. Sounds like this could be pretty
much the same problem.

I wonder how Eternity servers, using Usenet references, would be treated
under these regs?

--Steve






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 11:41:31 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Electric power generators ?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 3:52 PM -0800 11/7/98, Igor Chudov @ home wrote:

>1) Aside from probably lower power, are those cheaper generators somehow
>worse?
>
>2) How reliable are those cheaper generators?
>
>3) What is their expected lifetime, in hours of operation?
>
>4) How hard is it to service them?

The answer to all of the above is that the nickname for Briggs and Stratton
engines, the ones commonly found in the $500 generators sold  by local
hardware and home supply stores, is "Breaks and Scrap 'Em."

Coleman and Generac generators are notorious for short running life. See
misc.survivalism for many comments, including comments by equipment rental
folks, who say the Coleman, Generac, and other B & S or Tecumseh-based
generators have low lifetimes.

If one's need is for very short-term, occasional use, the B & S-based
generators are OK. Cheap, that's for sure.

Better engines are Honda and Kohler (and a few of the Coleman generators
are now starting to feature Honda overhead valve (OHV) engines.

Again, look to misc.survivalism, not the Cypherpunks list!

>5) How do you connect them to the electric system, to properly use
>them as backup? (this may be a stupid question, but I am not very
>familiar with American system of electric wiring).

See above. Also, use the Web.

>6) How much gasoline do they consume if you draw 2KW power from them?
>

My Honda 2.5 KW generator is rated at consuming one third of a gallon per
hour. A 3-gallon tank running for 9 hours. I haven't done exhaustive tests,
but this is, so far, about what I am seeing.

All of this is contained in manfacturers specs, available on the Web and
commented upon in groups like misc.survivalism.

Cypherpunks is not a good place to ask.

--Tim May

Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash.
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Igor Chudov @ home" 
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 08:18:39 +0800
To: cypherpunks@manifold.algebra.com
Subject: Electric power generators ?
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Hi there,

I saw an article posted about "shortages" of electric power generators
and other Y2K "survival" goods, such as grains in airtight drums. My
reading of the article gave me a feel that those products are bullshit
products geared towards naive losers, and can be easily replaced with
much cheaper products that can be bought at discount stores.

More careful reading of the article showed that only certain high power
diesel generators are scarce.

A visit to my local discount retailer has shown that there are 10KW
gasoline generators available for as little as $500. 10KW is far more 
than I would need in an emergency. (I will probably need about 2KW).

Questions:

1) Aside from probably lower power, are those cheaper generators somehow
worse?

2) How reliable are those cheaper generators?

3) What is their expected lifetime, in hours of operation?

4) How hard is it to service them?

5) How do you connect them to the electric system, to properly use
them as backup? (this may be a stupid question, but I am not very 
familiar with American system of electric wiring).

6) How much gasoline do they consume if you draw 2KW power from them?

Thank you.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
char*p="char*p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}

                \=/,         _-===-_-====-_-===-_-==========-_-====-_
                |  @___oo   (                                        )_
      /\  /\   / (___,,,}_--=                                          )
     ) /^\) ^\/ _)        =__       Anything is good and useful if    )
     )   /^\/   _)          (_                                        )
     )   _ /  / _)            (         it's made of chocolate.        )
 /\  )/\/ ||  | )_)            (_                                     )
<  >      |(,,) )__)             (   http://www.algebra.com/~ichudov   )
 ||      /    \)___)\             (_                                  _)
 | \____(      )___) )___           -==-_____-=====-_____-=====-___==
  \______(_______;;; __;;;




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Watts 
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 10:48:30 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: A question about the new ISP ruling and email...
Message-ID: <19981108022534.28767.rocketmail@send101.yahoomail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Here's the definition of ISP in the legislation (H.R. 2281 at
http://thomas.loc.gov).

`(1) SERVICE PROVIDER- (A) As used in subsection (a), the term
`service provider' means an entity offering   the transmission,
routing, or providing of connections for digital online
communications, between or among points specified by a user, of
material of the user's choosing, without modification to the content
of the material as sent or received.

   `(B) As used in this section, other than subsection (a), the term
`service provider' means a provider of online services or network
access, or the operator of facilities therefor, and includes an entity
described in subparagraph (A).

Subsection (a) deals with limiting ISP liability for transmitting
infringing material.  Other subsections deal with caching, hosting,
linking, taking down infringing material, liability for those who
knowingly misrepresent that material is infringing, and rights of
copyright owners to subpoena ISPs for identification information of
alleged infringers.  The requirement to register with the Copyright
Office and designate a contact person applies only as to liability for
hosted material.  However, in order to be eligible for any of the
liability limitations, ISPs must meet the following conditions:

  `(i) CONDITIONS FOR ELIGIBILITY-

          `(1) ACCOMMODATION OF TECHNOLOGY- The limitations on
liability established by this section shall apply to a service
provider only if the service provider--

       `(A) has adopted and reasonably implemented, and informs
subscribers and account holders of the service provider's system or
network of, a policy that provides for the termination in appropriate
circumstances of
subscribers and account holders of the service provider's system or
network who are repeat infringers; and

       `(B) accommodates and does not interfere with standard
technical measures.

          `(2) DEFINITION- As used in this subsection, the term
`standard technical measures' means technical measures that are used
by copyright owners to identify or protect copyrighted works and--

     `(A) have been developed pursuant to a broad consensus of
copyright owners and service providers in an open, fair, voluntary,
multi-industry standards process;

    `(B) are available to any person on reasonable and
nondiscriminatory terms; and

   `(C) do not impose substantial costs on service providers or
substantial burdens on their systems or
networks.   


---phelix@vallnet.com wrote:
>
> On 7 Nov 1998 13:50:20 -0600, Jim Choate 
wrote:
> 
> >
> >Would such a commercial entity require registry to be protected?
> 
> A more interesting question is whether anonymous remailers will need
to
> register.  I suspect that there will be a challenge to this law that
will
> lead judges to define what an ISP is.  That definition will
problably be
> something like:
> 
> 	Any service that allows users to connect to, send, or receive
> information to/from other sites or any site acting as a conduit for
users
> to communicate with others.
> 
> Already, companies like Newscene and Newsguy (usenet only services)
believe
> that they will need to register, though they aren't technically
ISPs, as
> most people would think of them.
> 
> Is an anymous remailer needs to register, what will the implications
be?
> 
> -- Phelix
> 
> 

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: b!X 
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 10:48:30 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: A question about the new ISP ruling and email...
In-Reply-To: <3646ba82.49389892@news>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Sat, 7 Nov 1998 phelix@vallnet.com wrote:

> Is an anymous remailer needs to register, what will the implications be?

Ok, if there's been a URL posted explaining what the law says about
registration, I missed it.

Being an owner of a cybercafe, I imagine I should see what the law has to
say.

- b!X (Guerrilla Techno-fetishist @ GEEK Force)






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 09:42:59 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: [E-CARM] Identification and Privacy are not Antinomies
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


X-Authentication-Warning: c3po.kc-inc.net: majordomo set sender to
owner-e-carm@lists.kc-inc.net using -f
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 19:52:59 -0200 (EDT)
From: Ed Gerck 
To: Robert Hettinga 
cc: E-CARM , DIGSIG@LISTSERV.TEMPLE.EDU
Subject: Re: [E-CARM] Identification and Privacy are not Antinomies
MIME-Version: 1.0
Sender: owner-e-carm@c3po.kc-inc.net
Precedence: bulk

On Sat, 7 Nov 1998, Robert Hettinga wrote:

>Don't blame me, blame the remailer? 

Bob:

If the e-mail below was forwarded through you, it means that you
thought it is useful to these lists and that you also found some
nexus in the argument line used by the, huh... author. However,
neither you nor the huh... author seem to hold a steady line of
argument, as of course, you are indeed to be blamed without recourse
for this piece of tasteless non-sense being further reproduced on the
Net.

My intent with my original posting (available at
http://www.mcg.org.br/antinomy.txt, as proof) was NOT to criticize
the Clinton administration on an initiative which is in accord with
current practices worldwide -- but to show that there is a better and
privacy-protecting solution when identification is modelled using
coherence functions. Further, my intent was to show that biometrics
is perishable and not self-secure, which reasons alone would seem to
rule it out in the case.

THUS, MY SOLE REASON FOR THIS REJOINDER IS TO MAKE THAT CLEAR.

However, the Net is an amplifier -- it just provides raw power. The
question is how it is used. You and I have duly performed our duties
as estimulated emission sources, albeit with different filter
functions.

Cheers,

Ed Gerck.

>
>Cheers,
>Bob Hettinga
>
>--- begin forwarded text
>
>
>Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 20:26:24 +0100
>From: Anonymous 
>Comments: This message did not originate from the Sender address above.
>	It was remailed automatically by anonymizing remailer software.
>	Please report problems or inappropriate use to the
>	remailer administrator at .
>Subject: Identification and Privacy are not Antinomies
>To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
>Sender: owner-cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
>Precedence: first-class
>Reply-To: Anonymous 
>X-Loop: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
>
>Aaww horseplops[1]! In fact, great, festering, mid-path, sole-sticking
>horseplops!  This argument is vacuous. As every small child knows,
>authentication != identification and, in most cases,  only authentication
>is required and, the absence of identification implies privacy.
>
>Am I a UK citizen, a good credit risk, a club member in good
>standing, etc.  An appropriate mechanism, a smartcard, can easily
>authenticate both itself (challenge-response) and the bearer via a biometric
>and/or PIN without revealing the identity of the holder.
>
>However, who holds out hope that such a sensible
>thing would ever be adopted by the powers-that-be.
>
>Nematode
>
>[1] The plop is a useful measure of human cogitation. As every small child
>knows, much good thinking is done whilst enthroned on the commode, since
>the evacuation of feces from the anus promotes the introduction of fresh
>material into the brain through the ears.  After years of experimentation
>and careful measurement, we (the ISO labs) have observed a strong  correlation
>between ideas and fecal bombardment of the receptive commodal pool and audible
>emissions therefrom. For example, it required only 0.3 plops to decide to vote
>for Clinton while a similar decision in favor of John Major required almost
>5 plops.
>For the purposes of comparison, 10^6 homosapiens plop = 1 horseplop. While the
>relationship between megaplops, flops and MIPS is not yet clear, our
>ISO plop standard should be emitted soon.
>
>-----BEGIN PLOP SIGNATURE-----
>Version: PLOP for Personal Privacy
>Charset: nocommode
>
>NSACIAMOUSEaw6mkJhRWnHTzAQFMlgP/ZMM+14qUzy+w6AGSlOtAyrE2BBDSV3Hm
>Tlc0Ct7wyXV2CPEMzieCm4ZS0rzigkgTZTMCmEqYexEJkdSAU60WMHm3cr28UJIG
>ekx7N7aWKQ34u05dRrE+IVR329y0ia/2F8B7edZ7CqoydOJAnQxNIB1qohlCGlGT
>RYgOGVSpO04=
>=MF1K
>-----END PLOP SIGNATURE-----
>
>--- end forwarded text
>
>
>-----------------
>Robert A. Hettinga 
>Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
>44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
>"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
>[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
>experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
>===========================================================================
>Help with Majordomo commands plus list archives and information is
>available through the E-CARM web page at http://www.kc-inc.net/e-carm/.
>Sponsored by The Knowledge Connection.
>===========================================================================
>

______________________________________________________________________
Dr.rer.nat. E. Gerck                     egerck@novaware.cps.softex.br
http://novaware.cps.softex.br

===========================================================================
Help with Majordomo commands plus list archives and information is
available through the E-CARM web page at http://www.kc-inc.net/e-carm/.
Sponsored by The Knowledge Connection.
===========================================================================

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 03:49:42 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Identification and Privacy are not Antinomies
Message-ID: <199811071926.UAA19456@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Aaww horseplops[1]! In fact, great, festering, mid-path, sole-sticking
horseplops!  This argument is vacuous. As every small child knows, 
authentication != identification and, in most cases,  only authentication 
is required and, the absence of identification implies privacy.

Am I a UK citizen, a good credit risk, a club member in good
standing, etc.  An appropriate mechanism, a smartcard, can easily 
authenticate both itself (challenge-response) and the bearer via a biometric 
and/or PIN without revealing the identity of the holder.

However, who holds out hope that such a sensible
thing would ever be adopted by the powers-that-be.

Nematode

[1] The plop is a useful measure of human cogitation. As every small child
knows, much good thinking is done whilst enthroned on the commode, since 
the evacuation of feces from the anus promotes the introduction of fresh 
material into the brain through the ears.  After years of experimentation
and careful measurement, we (the ISO labs) have observed a strong  correlation
between ideas and fecal bombardment of the receptive commodal pool and audible
emissions therefrom. For example, it required only 0.3 plops to decide to vote
for Clinton while a similar decision in favor of John Major required almost 5 plops.
For the purposes of comparison, 10^6 homosapiens plop = 1 horseplop. While the
relationship between megaplops, flops and MIPS is not yet clear, our
ISO plop standard should be emitted soon.

-----BEGIN PLOP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PLOP for Personal Privacy
Charset: nocommode

NSACIAMOUSEaw6mkJhRWnHTzAQFMlgP/ZMM+14qUzy+w6AGSlOtAyrE2BBDSV3Hm
Tlc0Ct7wyXV2CPEMzieCm4ZS0rzigkgTZTMCmEqYexEJkdSAU60WMHm3cr28UJIG
ekx7N7aWKQ34u05dRrE+IVR329y0ia/2F8B7edZ7CqoydOJAnQxNIB1qohlCGlGT
RYgOGVSpO04=
=MF1K
-----END PLOP SIGNATURE-----        




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Steve Schear 
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 12:57:00 +0800
To: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Subject: Re: IP: Discover Alien Life With Your PC And SETI
In-Reply-To: <199811072128.NAA19768@netcom13.netcom.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Perhaps I'm missing something, but it seems to me that if I were an alien
civilization and wanted to send out a beacon, in as wide an angle as
possible, across the vast reaches of space and overcome as much of the path
losses as possible using the least energy I certainly wouldn't use a narrow
band signal. Quite the contrary, I'd want to spread a low bandwidth
information signal across the widest practical spectrum. Its much easier to
increase process gain (the ratio of the baseband information signal to the
final carrier bandwidth) than transmit power.

While a narrow band signal from Arecibo's powerful transmitter/antenna
combination can be detected at a distance of about 300 light years. It
subtends a very small angle greatly reducing the likelyhood of contact.
Switching to a spread spectrum approach could allow broadening the antenna
pattern, and thereby its chances of detection, significantly without
reducing its effective range. Notice how 63 dB (or over 2,000,000 fold
effective increase in transmit power) of process gain enables handheld GPS
receivers to pull in signals from satellites, sent using only a few watts
of transmit power, without much of an antenna.

If all this seems to make sense, then why are the SETI people apparently
seaching the skies with lots of narrow band receivers? They don't seem to
be employing any broadband correlator techniques, so spread signals will
probably be missed.

--Steve






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: phelix@vallnet.com
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 05:52:59 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: A question about the new ISP ruling and email...
In-Reply-To: <199811071757.LAA02280@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <3646ba82.49389892@news>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On 7 Nov 1998 13:50:20 -0600, Jim Choate  wrote:

>
>Would such a commercial entity require registry to be protected?

A more interesting question is whether anonymous remailers will need to
register.  I suspect that there will be a challenge to this law that will
lead judges to define what an ISP is.  That definition will problably be
something like:

	Any service that allows users to connect to, send, or receive
information to/from other sites or any site acting as a conduit for users
to communicate with others.

Already, companies like Newscene and Newsguy (usenet only services) believe
that they will need to register, though they aren't technically ISPs, as
most people would think of them.

Is an anymous remailer needs to register, what will the implications be?

-- Phelix




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 12:33:34 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: A question about the new ISP ruling and email... (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811080408.WAA04069@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 18:25:34 -0800 (PST)
> From: David Watts 
> Subject: Re: A question about the new ISP ruling and email...

> `(1) SERVICE PROVIDER- (A) As used in subsection (a), the term
> `service provider' means an entity offering   the transmission,
> routing, or providing of connections for digital online
> communications, between or among points specified by a user, of
> material of the user's choosing, without modification to the content
> of the material as sent or received.
> 
>    `(B) As used in this section, other than subsection (a), the term
> `service provider' means a provider of online services or network
> access, or the operator of facilities therefor, and includes an entity
> described in subparagraph (A).

That pretty much covers anyone other than a end-user/subscriber. This means
anonymous remailers, mailing list hosting services, email services, etc.

> Subsection (a) deals with limiting ISP liability for transmitting
> infringing material.  Other subsections deal with caching, hosting,
> linking, taking down infringing material, liability for those who
> knowingly misrepresent that material is infringing, and rights of
> copyright owners to subpoena ISPs for identification information of
> alleged infringers.  The requirement to register with the Copyright
> Office and designate a contact person applies only as to liability for
> hosted material.

Does 'hosted material' mean material that is put up by the ISP itself or
does it also include material made available by subscribers?

> However, in order to be eligible for any of the
> liability limitations, ISPs must meet the following conditions:

Ah, so there's more than simple registration...

>   `(i) CONDITIONS FOR ELIGIBILITY-
> 
>           `(1) ACCOMMODATION OF TECHNOLOGY- The limitations on
> liability established by this section shall apply to a service
> provider only if the service provider--
> 
>        `(A) has adopted and reasonably implemented, and informs
> subscribers and account holders of the service provider's system or
> network of, a policy that provides for the termination in appropriate
> circumstances of
> subscribers and account holders of the service provider's system or
> network who are repeat infringers; and

Wait a second, I'm no cop. If somebody places copyrighted material on SSZ
for example I can see bringing suite against that party, but forcing me to
punish them by removing their account is over the line. Do I get restitution
for lost services from the copyright holder since I'm acting as their agent?

>        `(B) accommodates and does not interfere with standard
> technical measures.
> 
>           `(2) DEFINITION- As used in this subsection, the term
> `standard technical measures' means technical measures that are used
> by copyright owners to identify or protect copyrighted works and--
> 
>      `(A) have been developed pursuant to a broad consensus of
> copyright owners and service providers in an open, fair, voluntary,
> multi-industry standards process;

So this is voluntary?

>     `(B) are available to any person on reasonable and
> nondiscriminatory terms; and

Meaning they themselves aren't copyrighted?

>    `(C) do not impose substantial costs on service providers or
> substantial burdens on their systems or
> networks.   

Imposition of *any* cost is a substantial burden.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 17:48:03 +0800
To: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981107232750.008f4e70@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 01:23 PM 11/4/98 -0800, Vladimir Z. Nuri forwarded
"ScanThisNews" 's forwarding to 
ignition-point by VIRGINIA ELLIS from last April - 
presumably the Digital Millenium Copyright Act means
that everybody here had better register or they're in Big Trouble :-)

Anyway, ....
The State has been forcing people to turn over private information,
such as SSNs and addresses, to an organization known to be riddled with
graft, information selling, and illegal issuing of licenses.
	"We have, in effect, created a cottage industry," 
	said Steve Solem, a DMV deputy director.
One of the big encouragements to this cottage industry has been
the anti-immigrant Pete Wilson administration's policy that
speaking Spanish causes bad driving so undocumented immigrants
can't be allowed to drive.  The article also points to other
groups of people denied permission to travel for non-safety-related reasons.



>SACRAMENTO - The California driver's license's preeminence as a form of
>identification has spawned a thriving black market for fraudulent licenses
>and a major corruption scandal in the state's motor vehicle department,
>records and interviews show.
>
>In recent years, as the lowly driver's license has been redesigned to make
>it more tamper-resistant, the card has increasingly become the dominant
>piece of identification for cashing checks, obtaining credit and securing
>government services.
....
>New laws have made a larger and larger pool of people susceptible to losing
>their license for activities unrelated to driving. The license can be
>suspended for spraying graffiti, failure to pay child support, truancy and
>certain kinds of prostitution. And immigrants who lack proper proof of
>residency cannot be issued one.
>
>"If you're a drunk driver, you want a fake ID," said Alison Koch, a senior
>special investigator for the DMV in Sacramento. "If you're in a gang, you
>want a fake ID. If you're a deadbeat dad, you want a fake ID. If you're an
>illegal alien, you want a fake ID. If you want to commit check or credit
>card fraud, you want a fake ID.
>
>"There is hardly a crime out there that doesn't demand some kind of
>fraudulent identification."
...
>Reed acknowledged the bad publicity was a wake-up call but disputed Peace's
>contention the DMV has a culture of corruption, saying the vast majority of
>the DMV's 8,600 workers are law-abiding.
...
>Birth certificates, which the DMV requires, are easily counterfeited, and
>phony ones are hard to spot, officials said. The appearance of birth
>certificates varies from state to state and sometimes, as in California,
>from county to county. Adding to the problem is California's open birth
>certificate procedure, which allows virtually anyone to get a certified copy
>of anyone else's birth record.
....
>Scattaglia said much of the counterfeiting may have its roots south of the
>border, but no one knows for sure because investigators have only been able
>to arrest the sellers, not the suppliers.
.....
>Banking officials are starting to rethink their heavy reliance on the
>driver's license. "That's certainly a trend that's underway because they are
>increasingly fake," said Gregory Wilhelm, lobbyist for the California
>Bankers Assn.

				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 16:11:41 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Advertising Creepiness
In-Reply-To: <199811072128.NAA19724@netcom13.netcom.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 9:35 PM -0800 11/7/98, Declan McCullagh wrote:
>Seems to me that it would have been just as easy for "believer" to send the
>URL to the story as the whole thing. Same with ol'VZ.
>
>Not only is it in poor taste, but it means less people will read the
>article on wired.com, which is what pays the rent.
>

Myself, I try to mostly just snip out a few paragraphs of a story and
comment on them, fair use and all.

However, Declan's point about "what pays the rent" brings up an obvious
point: does _anybody_ look at those damned banner ads?

This is the new "blind spot"...that foveal region about a third of the way
down a Web page screen that has dancing icons, "click on me" junk, and
corporate logos. My guess is that nearly all of us skip this junk
completely, and I think marketing studies will someday confirm this. (There
have been tantalizing reports in places like the "Wall Street Journal" that
basically almost nobody sees these ads, but the full message hasn't sunk
in.)

And the advertising creeps are getting even creepier. Intel was running a
banner ad that looked like a typical Mac or Windows error/alert box,
something like "Click Here to Resume Operation." Creepy. And annoying.

And even my current favorite search engine, Metacrawler, now has banner ads
scattered throughout the search results. Tonight's ad (they change
frequently, of course) even looked like a *search script*! A field for
entering text and then an OK button...I didn't try it, but it was obviously
an attempt to mislead people--embedding a search script inside a search
result. (It was a "fake search script" to "Find people just like you," from
"PlanetAll.com")

And the common pages--Wired, Yahoo, Excite, Dejanews, .....--devote the
left third to junky promotions, the top fourth to their damned name
("Metacrawler" in 40-point type), and then scatter banned ads across a
third of what's remaining.

It's not uncommon for only 2-3 search results to come back on a screen of
1024 x 768.

Declan's own site, Wired.com, runs junk across the top, junk on the left
side, junk on the right side, and doesn't even use the screen real estate.
His story on Y2K, for example, is crammed into about a column inch or two
in the center.

This is what we've come to. Beautiful high resolution screens with junk
filling them.

(Yes, I tried the utilities which purport to flush banner ads, but they
didn't work well (long delays, cruftiness).)

Friends of mine routinely turn off all graphics, a point I'm about to reach.

So, Declan may think the banner ads at Wired.com pay the rent, and the bean
counters may think this is so, but I doubt any of us are looking at the
ads. Except the dummies.

--Tim May

Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash.
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Hohensee 
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 13:27:06 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199811071710.LAA02112@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <364529A2.F4C8E9C9@nyu.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate wrote:
> 
> Forwarded message:
> 
> > Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 01:33:18 -0500
> > From: Michael Hohensee 
> > Subject: Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone (fwd)
> 
> > No government can protect individual rights.
> 
> That isn't a reasonable statement. There is nothing in the definition or
> application of 'government' or 'individual rights' that preclude this. The
> issue becomes in a practical sense how the practitioners of a government
> system respect individual rights. If they are willing to do away with them
> to protect them (as we seem to be moving toward in this country) then of
> course there are no individual rights.

You missed my point.  What I'm trying to point out is that no government
(or any other body, for that matter) can prevent someone from doing
something.  All the state can do (and does, if you look closely) is
offer to punish anyone who disobeys it.  It doesn't matter whether that
state is protecting individual rights or not --it can only punish, not
prevent.

> Of course, this implies there are no collective rights either.

Correct.  There are none.  There are no collectives, only groups
comprised of individuals.  Therefore it would be meaningless to speak of
"collective" rights.

> >  The only way one could do
> > so would be if it: (a) could predict the future, and act to prevent
> > certain futures from happening; or (b) it controls every aspect and
> > motion of each individual's life, thereby ensuring that nobody steps out
> > of line.
> 
> What has that to do with protecting individual rights? Clarify please.

I'm explaining why it is impossible for the state to protect individual
rights. I offer two mechanisms by which the state *could* _protect_
individual rights, and then point out why they are impossible.  It is
something of a strawman argument, but if you disagree, I'm willing to
tear down any mechanism you might propose. :)

> > All any state can do is threaten to "retaliate" against (why not just
> > say "attack") people who disobey its edicts.  In order for this threat
> > to be credible, the state must wield sufficient power to kill any
> > individual (or group of individuals) who would stand against it.  If it
> > does not have this power, it cannot govern.
> 
> This is a quaint and completely artificial distinction.

Is it really?  Then could you please explain to me exactly why I would
have to pay taxes (or otherwise make submission) to a state which did
*not* have the power to kill me?  If it lacks this power --and I mean
this in a physical sense, not a legal one-- then what is to stop me or
anyone else from telling it to fuck off?  Such a state cannot govern
those who do not wish to be governed, and so would not be a government.

> > The problem is, if it does
> > have this power, then there is nothing to stop those individuals in
> > control of the state from violating the individual rights of its
> > citizens.  As often seems the case today, for example.
> 
> We also see quite a few situations where the opposite occurs as well.

Occasionally, yes.  The state does not yet have absolute power, or does
not yet choose to wield it fully in all situations.  But we've already
got an impressive list in the USA alone.  We've had Ruby Ridge, we've
had Waco, the countless raids on the homes of innocent people in the
name of the drug war (and the countless raids on the homes of innocent
drug-addicts, for that matter).

> > The system you suggest, which I assume consists of a state with a
> > "minimal" amount of power, run by enlightened people, is in a state of
> 
> Anyone who assumes noble oblige is an idiot. There are no enlightened
> people, intelligence and wealth no more prepare an individual for a
> position in government than they prepare them for anything else.
> Rich/intelligent people don't make less mistakes than those who aren't.

Correct, which is the main reason that we cannot trust a state in any
shape or form, regardless of how good the people running it may seem.

> > extremely unstable equilibrium (if it is indeed in equilibrium).  If it
> 
> If you're talking of Hayek's equilibrium, it's nothing more than a
> bastardization of a thermodynamics term to represent the status quo.
> Equilabrium in the economic sense simply means that people do today what
> they did yesterday. In general they do about as often as they don't.

Actually, I wasn't thinking of Hayek at all.  ;) 

I was just pointing out that a "benign" state, even if it were possible
to create one (which, as you pointed out in your last paragraph, is
impossible), would not stay benign very long.  Economics is not
discussed in this portion of the argument.

> > wields just enough power to enforce its will, that power can be used by
> > evil men to increase its power.
> 
> Evil? Where did religion come into this at?

Forgive me, I was trying to shorten the sentence a bit, and assumed that
"evil men" would be understood to refer to those men (and women) who
wish to rule other people, for whatever reason.  Your personal
definition of evil may vary.  

Can we agree that it is wrong to rule others?  This is the fundamental
distinction which sets us apart from the statists.

> > Just look at what happened after the Constitutional coup took place in
> > the fledgling USA.  Remember the Whiskey Rebellion?  When we lost the
> > Articles of Confederation, we were taking the first steps down the road
> > to the tyranny of today.  The anti-federalists predicted this, although
> > they sorely underestimated how far it would go --assuming that it would
> > be stopped by another revolution.
> 
> There have been several since then. The Civil War and the civil rights
> movement in the 60's are two good examples (on the opposite end of the
> 'use-of-violence' scales).

The war of northern aggression is more of a reverse revolution, from
this standpoint.  The south peacefully left the union, and the north
reconquered it. It's roughly analogous to what would have happened had
the british won the american revolution.

As for the civil rights movement; it just goes to show that not
*everything* that happened after 1776 was a bad thing.  

> > The minimalist state has been tried.
> 
> No, that was a non-federalist state where the individual states acted as
> individuals in a collective. Because of the collective nature of the state
> governments it didn't work. A minimalist state would be anarchy.

Not by the definition of a state given above.  The minimalist state must
wield sufficient power to rule those who would disobey its edicts,
otherwise it's not a state --just a bunch of losers who dress pompously
and issue meaningless proclaimations.  Anarchy is the *absence* of the
state.  

> > The only truly free system is one in which there is no body of people
> > calling itself a government which can enforce its will over the
> > individual.  The only way people can seem to be free living under such a
> > body is entirely dependent upon the good will of their masters, and this
> > is a shaky assumption to make.
> 
> No it isn't the only way. The only way is to clearly define the duties of
> each level of government and build a system of checks and balances that
> prohibit them from moving outside their domains. A good first attempt at
> this was the Constitution and the Bill of Rights (in particular 9 & 10).
> The problem is that there are individuals who don't want to be limited in
> their authority. It's a person problem not a government problem.

You are proposing a means of setting up a benign government.  For it to
be a government, it must wield sufficient power to rule.  For it to be
benign, it must be run by "good" men (i.e. those who will not use the
state to increase their personal power).  But as you pointed out, it is
foolish to trust that the state will be run by such individuals,
regardless of who they are.  Thus it would seem that it is impossible to
create a benign state.  Thus we should avoid having one.

> > How about:  Any action that involves the initiation of force against the
> > property of another person (the person belongs to himself, of course) is
> > immoral.
> 
> Morality? Why do you keep bringing religion and individual beliefs into it?

I used the word because the person I responded to used it.  Exactly what
is considered "immoral" does of course vary from person to person. 
Perhaps a better word would be "wrong", "antisocial", "socially
unacceptable", or perhaps "not to be tolerated".

> A person is, they don't belong to anyone.

No, a person belongs to him or herself.  *Someone* is directing my
actions, and guess what: it's me.  I choose what I will and will not
do.  I choose what I say.  I choose what I think.  I belong to me.

> It should be:
> 
> Any act that harms a person or their property without their prior permission
> is a crime. 

Correct.  It is wrong to initiate force against another person or their
property.  It is of course no problem if the person owning the property
gives you permission to harm it.  Then it's not initiation of force.

> There are no exceptions other than immediate personal self
> defence, which terminates upon the application of minimal force to guarantee
> the threat will not reoccur (in many cases this means kill the attacker).
> This should apply to all individuals participating in a governmental role as
> well.

I agree.  This more detailed explaination of how much force should be
applied in response to an attack.  It should be small enough to ensure
that you don't accidentially end up looking like you're in the wrong
afterwards, and large enough to ensure that there *is* an afterwards. ;)

> > This neatly tidies up the obvious question of exactly what "individual
> > rights" are.  There's a partial list of them in the bill of rights, but
> > it is not complete, by its own admission.
> 
> By it's own admission they are protected from denial by the 9th and 10th so
> they don't need to be listed (unlike the 10th lists the duties of the
> government system). The problem is conservatives and liberals alike don't
> respect those boundaries. They want more.

Correct.  No state can be benign if it is run by corrupt individuals. 
This is another example which supports the idea that the state is a bad
idea.

> >  Furthermore, the above
> > definition excludes such dubious rights as the "right to an education",
> > the "right to welfare", etc.
> 
> Now you're doing exactly what you are complaining about. Your defining others
> rights when you don't want them defining yours.

No, I'm describing what are obviously *not* rights.  If someone has a
"right" to an education, then that means that he has a right to get it
whether or not he can pay for it.  That is, if he can't pay for it, he
has the right to take money which belongs to other people (i.e. steal
the property of others).  (either that or he has the right to a "free"
education, which translates to him having a right to make someone teach
him without compensation, which is also theft).

The same argument applies to welfare.  If you do not agree, then what
you said about it being wrong to harm another person or that person's
property without their consent is sheer hypocrisy.

> People may very well have a right to welfare and an education (I believe
> people have a civil right to medical and legal advice gratis - stems from
> the pursuit of life, liberty, and happiness). The issue isn't that. The
> issue is *what are the duties of the government as defined in its charter*.
> If those duties are not in there (and they're not) then it shouldn't be
> doing it without an amendment from the charter.

So, you're saying that you're a statist? :/

> > All of the above involve the initiation (or threat of initiation) of
> > force.  Hence they are immoral, and the victims and any bystanders would
> > be morally justified in using force against the initiators.  Of course,
> > this would not be true in a governed society, where the state must hold
> > a monopoly on the use of force, if only to maintain its own position.
> > Much less efficient.
> 
> Go read the Constitution, it's true here in our governemnt though many
> people don't want it to be so. As a result they find all kinds of childish
> and inane reasons to deny the obvious.
> 
> Like it or not the federal governments panapoly of current powers are as
> vacous as the king is naked.
> 
> It's like executive orders, unless you happen to work for the executive
> branch they aren't worth the paper they're written on. Why? Because at no
> point is the office of President given this authority over anyone other than
> executive branch employees. He has no more authority to dictate general
> behaviour via that mechanism than you or I do - zero. Per the 10th there is
> not one sentence in the Constitution that delegates that authority to the
> office.

In a strictly legal sense, you are correct.  In reality, however, things
are slightly different, since there is a large supply of men with guns
who are apparently willing to execute these legally unjustified orders
--and me, if I get in their way.

When I talk about power, I'm not talking about namby-pamby _legal_
power.  I'm talking about raw *physical* power.  From a practical point
of view, what's written on a piece of paper is irrelevant if I'm
confronted with armed men who are willing to ignore it.

> > We've all got our pet peeves.  Would you like to live under mine?  Would
> > I like to live under yours?  Can I trust you to be tolerant?  Can I
> > trust your successors, 20 years from now?  Can my descendants trust
> > subsequent successors, 200 years later?  Experience tends to show the
> > contrary.
> 
> There is more at stake than toleration or trust. You paint with too narrow a
> brush. If you're saying we should have anarchy then you're as kooky as the
> people who don't literaly interpret the Constitution.

Why?  Is it insane not to trust in the state?  *You yourself* have
pointed out why we cannot trust those organizations called states.  If
I'm insane, you appear to be schizophrenic. ;)

> > The anarcho-capitalist free market is not one where "everything goes,"
> > and there is indeed a strong concept of individual rights.  What is
> > moral and not moral is defined by society on an individual basis.  The
> > first and only rule is:
> 
> First, it is one of everything-goes because there is no mechanism that will
> stop anybody from doing anything. There are NO concepts of *rights* in such
> a system, let alone individual rights. If anything the only rights are who
> has the capitalist backing to stave off the anarchic forces. That's not
> justice, equality, or respect for rights.

You are forgetting *social* mechanisms.  You are assuming that everyone
won't care if one of their friends is hurt.  You are assuming that
people will never take action against those who they percieve to be
threatening or harming them or their friends.  These assumptions are
*invalid*.

> > No one has the right to initiate force against another or another's
> > property.
> 
> Attack me with your body and property and watch it happen junior.

You misunderstand what is meant by the "initiation of force".  If I were
to attack you, it would be I who would be initiating force, not you. 
The force you use in response to my initiation of force would not have
initiated the conflict, thus you are not initiating force.

> > This is the fundamental and only "social contract" we make.  Anyone who
> > disagrees with this is obviously antisocial, and nobody's going to want
> > to live with him (or allow him to continue living, if he attacks
> > someone).
> 
> Oh bullshit. There is much more involved like not stealing which isn't the
> use of force and allowed by your anarcho-capatilism as well as your
> definition of valid use of force above.
>
> It's gibberish.

Nope.  Theft is an initation of force against my property.  If I happen
to be there, it would usually involve the initiation of force against
me, as I would probably desire to keep my property.

> > >From this, morality follows.  If X does Y to Z, and if Y is perceived as
> > immoral, then X is not going to be very popular with Z or anyone else,
> > unless he can make amends.  No one will want to trade with him, be near
> > him, etc.  This is a very strong motive to avoid doing immoral things.
> 
> Will you get religion the hell out of here please. 

Again, I apologize for using the word "morality", since it obviously
triggers your religion button.

> Y is obviously popular
> with X or else they wouldn't have used it. It further follows that there are
> more than one X-type out there. So your premise falls down on its face in
> the dirt.

Afraid not.  Just because there's more than one X out there doesn't mean
that Y is still a good thing to do.  If there is a sufficient number of
Z's who are willing to ostracize any X who does Y, then X is given a
strong motivation to not do Y, lest X end up starving and alone.

If, however, very few people consider Y immoral, then X will have no
problems.  Any Z's who treat X badly for Y will tend to be shunned by X
and his friends, putting pressure on the Z's to mind their own business.

This an example of a negative feedback loop --in stark contrast to the
positive feedback associated with the level of corruption in a state.

> > If Y is really nasty, such as the initiation of force, then X is going
> > to be in *deep* trouble.
> 
> With who? In an anarcho-capitalist society as you paint it the optimal strategy
> is to allow others to reduce your competition opening up the market for you.

No, I never painted it that way.  This is what *you* associate with
anarcho-capitalism.  

> Let's take an example. Imagine we live on a street and we notice a person
> going from house to house down the other side of the street. What is our
> optimal strategy? It isn't to call the cops (there aren't any) and it isn't
> to immediately kill the intruder (it isn't our property after all) since
> there is an opportunity to make a considerable gain here improving our
> status in the society as a whole. The optimal strategy is to wait and let
> this bozo kill our neighbors up to our house and *then* kill the intruder.
> At that point we have just inhereted an entire street of houses and its
> included properties. You put up a fence across each end of the street and
> wallah, your own little fifedom. If you're really lucky something similar
> will happen on the next street over and they won't be as lucky at killing
> the intruder. Then after they are all dead and the intruder has consolidated
> their gains (probably by fencing their street in) you can begin to scheme
> ways of taking that property since its obvious yours is next.

This is not the optimal strategy.  The optimal strategy is to warn your
neighbors, or call the neighborhood security service.  You do this
because you want them to do the same for you, should you come under
attack.  This is why most primates (specifically humans) live in groups
--it's easier to see the predators coming with everyone watching, and
it's easier to fend them off if everybody picks up a stick.

Fortunately, most people are already programmed to behave in a social
fashion (the ones who weren't got eaten 40,000 years ago).  The scenario
you paint above relies on the assumption of a sudden change in human
nature, if the all protecting state were to evaporate.  This is an
incorrect assumption.  Many have been the times that people have thought
they could change human nature, and equally many are the failures.

> >  Z may well shoot him out of self defense, and
> > even if he survives his action, he'll have to pay a *lot* of restitution
> > before people will trust him again, if ever.  Law enforcement by
> > ostracism --read L. Neil Smith's "The Probability Broach", for a more
> > detailed description.
> 
> Wait a second, there is no law to enforce here outside of make money, obtain
> property, keep somebody else from taking it.

You are overlooking common law.

> > In summary, a free market is far from being an immoral market.  In fact,
> > it is the most moral market there is, since there is no state which
> > holds the "right" to initiate force.
> 
> In summary a free-market is a anarchy of kill or be killed, take or get
> taken. He with the most goodies wins until somebody with a better strategy
> comes along. There is nothing to moderate the use of force, especialy when
> its the optimal strategy to increase ones holdings.
> 

Except, as I've pointed out, it is *not* the optimal strategy.  Perhaps
you would enjoy the works of Richard Dawkins.  He goes into great detail
describing exactly how nonviolent strategies are superior to violent
ones.  I'll just give one example here.

When two bears approach the same berry bush, they do not immediately
start fighting over it.  Instead, they each stick to one side of the
bush, and do not disturb one another.  Why, if your strategy is the
optimal one, would this be the case?  After all, bears are already
pretty good at attacking things.  It would be pretty easy for a
exceptional bear to break this rule, and become dominant over the other
bears, if what you say is true.

But it is obvious that bears *don't* do this.  That any bears or
ancestors of bears that ever did do this were somehow out-competed by
their peaceful counterparts.  Thus it would appear, from available
evidence, that your approach *is not* superior to the peaceful
approach.  Read Dawkins' "The Selfish Gene" for a more in-depth
argument.

Michael Hohensee




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 16:39:08 +0800
To: Tim May 
Subject: Re: Advertising Creepiness
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199811080818.AAA05625@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I like the wired.com site and hit it almost daily. I consider
it one of the highest quality sites on the net, and their
system of linking to other daily articles on other sites
I really like. (wish they would summarize their articles
better though before you click through-- something that
they have resisted for a long time but for what reason
I have no idea)
I do look at banner ads but rarely click on them.

regrding copyright issues on the web, there is an
interesting article in an old CUD called "the cyberspatial
copyright" that captures my own thinking on the subject,
for anyone with the lack of laziness to seek it out 

it would have been nice if Declan identified his affiliation
with Wired in his complaint.. 

a nice post TCM, you have written on the idea of
the worthlessness of banner ads long ago. but you've
been way wrong too (er, ah, more diplmatically, "off")
based on your old posts. I recall a post, I think, in which
you predicted that ads would eventually be thrown 
away on the net after proven worthless.  your current
msg contains a similar theme.

clearly
the absolute opposite has happened. ads are successfully
funding the net and entire new cool and innovative
startups such as "doubleclick" etc. that are in many
ways "virtual businesses" that run on information flow.
3rd wave, alvin toffler, is definitely HERE.

TCM, you appear never to have worked in advertising.
advertisers do not put out ads so that every person
who reads it buys the product or clicks on the ad.
they are satisfied with 1/100 "click thrus", and that's
exactly what they get. online advertising is very,very
cost effective if done properly. it can really be
"microtargeted" in a way existing advertising isn't.

so TCM, you are confusing two issues. advertising in
general is annoying, ubiquitous, in-your-face in our
culture. some estimates are that 1000+ ads are seen daily
by each individual when you look at tv, magazine, outdoor,
etc.   online advertising shares all these traits. 

however, online advertising does not have to be a miracle cure.
it only has to be as good (but idealy better) 
than *existing* advertising systems
in use. and they are very inefficient and wasteful at times
if you are aware of that industry. online advertising is
downright streamlined compared to other forms that have
preceded it.

consider the breakthrough of geocities in which entire free
*personal* (not corporate!!)
web sites are supported by advertising solely!! geocities is
a small cyberspace miracle unappreciated by many. they are growing
insanely and their quality is getting to be really top notch.

personally
I think online advertsiing is really cool because it is funding
the civilization of cyberspace. it's annoying and tacky and
in-your-face, but it pays the bills, and is doing more so
every day. it will get less obnoxious over time in some ways
as you begin to run into only the ads that interest you based
on "microtargeting" so to speak. 

you buy stuff, right TCM?
well online ads may get to the point where you stop complaining
and find them a very valuable resource to make your buying
decisions--even objectively (for example an ad could link
to an objective 3rd part like "consumer reports"). 
I think this day is not too far off. in many ways it is already
here.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 14:01:25 +0800
To: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Message-ID: <199811080538.VAA24008@smtp.well.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Seems to me that it would have been just as easy for "believer" to send the
URL to the story as the whole thing. Same with ol'VZ.

Not only is it in poor taste, but it means less people will read the
article on wired.com, which is what pays the rent.

-Declan


At 01:28 PM 11-7-98 -0800, Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote:
>
>From: believer@telepath.com
>Subject: IP: Crunch Time for Y2K Suppliers
>Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 11:22:46 -0600
>To: believer@telepath.com
>
>Source:  Wired
>http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/16035.html?3
>
>Crunch Time for Y2K Suppliers
> by Declan McCullagh 
>
> 4:00 a.m.5.Nov.98.PST
> The phones are already ringing when Steve





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: lcs Mixmaster Remailer 
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 12:57:02 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Grounding (fwd)
Message-ID: <19981108044003.6326.qmail@nym.alias.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



It seems so pointless to correct Choate.  The guy is almost totally
impervious to enlightenment.  But a couple of whoppers have to be
pointed out...

> Secondly, you're considering an electron carrying a photon as a
> single wavicle, it ain't. It's a superposition of several wavicles (3 quarks
> and a lepton to be exact under the standard model).

Electrons don't "carry" photons.  An atom can absorb a photon, raising
an electron to a higher energy level, but the photon is then gone.  And
a single moving electron certainly doesn't carry a photon.  Photons move
at the speed of light, always.

Quarks are constituents only of baryons.  There are no quarks in electrons
or photons.

Choate's bizarre description of a "spark gap" inside a conductive
globe culminates with this:

> Unlike charges attract. Therefore the gas of electrons are attracted to the
> inside surface. Now since the globe is neutral it must follow by
> conservation of charge that there is a negative charge equal to the charge
> held in the gas on the *OUTSIDE* of the ball.

The net charge within the sphere will not change.  If the box in the
middle with the "spark gap" is spraying out electrons, this can only mean
that the box is itself becoming positively charged.  The sphere sees a
constant charge within itself; at best, the charge can be redistributed.
There are no net changes of charge within the sphere and so there will
be no changes in any charge appearing on the outside of the sphere.

Choate's whole model of how a spark gap transmitter works, and why it
emits electromagnetic radiation, is so bizarre that it is hard to believe.
Someone else can bang their head against the brick wall of his ignorance
on that topic.

Choate is, by far, the worst poster on the cypherpunks list today.  He
posts off-topic material, he is argumentative, and 90% of the time, he
is simply wrong.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous bman@ahh.ohh
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 15:32:32 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: A question about the new ISP ruling and email...
In-Reply-To: <199811071757.LAA02280@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <199811080706.IAA28043@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>A more interesting question is whether anonymous remailers will need to
>register.  I suspect that there will be a challenge to this law that will

I think they will. The brief period of loose controls over communication
media is coming to an end. State correctly identified the problem and
now it is effectively being dealt with.

As printed mass media enjoyed short period of "freedom" at the beginning
of the century, so did internet in last five-six years or so.

All identifiable concentration nodes (news, ftp & http servers,
remailers, dial-in access points etc.) will eventually be censored. It
is interesting to note that today's network topology is more vulnerable
to censorship than UUCP was.

The only (partial) solution is to raise the cost of censoring by
requiring one-to-one effort. In other words, serverless world in which
end users directly exchange (preferably encrypted) packets over common
carriers. Hint: *Bsd + IPSec + uucp over IP and then merge in Crowds
technology where real-time relaying is needed.

Actually ... cypherpunks is a good choice for the first port.

The Barnman




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Steve Mynott 
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 22:10:34 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Advertising Creepiness
In-Reply-To: <199811072128.NAA19724@netcom13.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <19981108134525.A26515@tightrope.demon.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Sat, Nov 07, 1998 at 11:50:05PM -0800, Tim May wrote:
 
> Myself, I try to mostly just snip out a few paragraphs of a story and
> comment on them, fair use and all.

I particularly dislike articles that are things forwarded from other
lists without comment (IP seems a particular offender here).  These are
rarely interesting.

> This is the new "blind spot"...that foveal region about a third of the way
> down a Web page screen that has dancing icons, "click on me" junk, and
> corporate logos. My guess is that nearly all of us skip this junk
> completely, and I think marketing studies will someday confirm this. (There
> have been tantalizing reports in places like the "Wall Street Journal" that
> basically almost nobody sees these ads, but the full message hasn't sunk
> in.)

Click through rates are something like 2%, so most are screening them out.
I rarely noticed what the ads actually said.

> (Yes, I tried the utilities which purport to flush banner ads, but they
> didn't work well (long delays, cruftiness).)

I don't know which ones you have tried but junkbuster 

http://www.junkbuster.org/ (a proxy on port 8000)

works _very_ well on my linux system, particularly with the "blank gif"
patch.

It blanks out 99% of banner gifs, which makes pages like metacrawler and
wired look more visually attractive and load faster.

Until I lost all the banner ads I hadn't realised how distracting all those
animated gifs at the top of the screen were and its now much faster and
easier to read the info you want, without them.

> Friends of mine routinely turn off all graphics, a point I'm about to reach.

I tried this but found it made the net too hard to use.

> So, Declan may think the banner ads at Wired.com pay the rent, and the bean
> counters may think this is so, but I doubt any of us are looking at the
> ads. Except the dummies.

It would give a brave browser manufactor (Opera?) quite an advantage if
they built the banner ad killer into the browser directly.

-- 
1024/D9C69DF9 steve mynott steve@tightrope.demon.co.uk http://www.pineal.com/

    i'm a programmer: i don't buy software, i write it.
    --tom christiansen




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Alex de Joode 
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 21:58:46 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Response to Anonymous re: Zero-Knowledge Freedom
Message-ID: <199811081325.OAA13192@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Anonymous,

[..]
: >FREEDOM servers in their home country (example: if terrible laws are
: >passed like in the Netherlands requiring logging and storage of all
: >packet info., etc.). In this manner, a local user in a restrictive

I'm not aware of any law that requires "logging and storage of all
packet info". (I presume you mean 'Wet Computercriminaliteit II' ?)

There is a part that makes ISP liable if they cannot point to a
'user' but the law explicitly states that you have to be in
the business of being an ISP, running a remailer is not my business,
it is a 'not for profit' hobby, so it will be fun to see how "they"
will 'manouvre' to bring that also under the law ...

Anyways could you please sent me the relevant parts of this law that 
lead you think this way ?

bEST Regards,
--
Alex de Joode | International CryptoRunners | http://www.replay.com
         'A little paranoia can lengthen your life'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: pgut001@cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann)
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 11:01:13 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Blind signal demodulation
Message-ID: <91049302221713@cs26.cs.auckland.ac.nz>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



The October 1993 Proceedings of the IEEE contain a number of rather 
interesting articles on blind signal identification and demodulation, which 
may be described roughly as "demodulation without the cooperation of the 
transmitter (or intended receiver where this might be necessary)".  The first 
article in particular goes into some detail on how to acquire QAM signals used 
in modems, including a neat diagram on p.1919 of a 64-QAM constellation 
through the various stages of acquisition by a blind demodulator.  The blind 
demodulation comletely bypasses the need for an initial training stage, 
acquiring the necessary signal-processing details on the fly.
 
The article finishes with overviews of typical hardware used for blind 
demodulation of QAM signals, including a multi-protocol DSP card with with 8 
320C50's capable of blind demodulation of anything from 24 2400bps signals up 
through 8 V.34 ones, as well as an ASIC for blind demodulation of digital 
cable TV signals.  They also comment that blind decoders for typical voiceband 
signals can be implemented on Pentium MMX/UltraSparc-grade hardware.  This is 
interesting reading, and should lay to rest the UL that high-speed modems have 
some sort of magic immunity to interception which the lower-speed ones don't.
 
Oh yes, the introduction makes the observation that this sort of stuff is 
"rarely mentioned in the open literature".  It's not hard to see why.
 
Peter.                                                               
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: pgut001@cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann)
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 19:16:42 +0800
To: jkthomson@bigfoot.com
Subject: Re: verisign digital id's for outlook 
Message-ID: <91052249324053@cs26.cs.auckland.ac.nz>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>A quick question for all you security-savvy people.  Our IT instructor has
>asked the class to sign up for verisigns' 60-day trial of a class 1 digital
>id.
>
>I also understand that a well (poorly?) written activeX applet can grab my
>key basically without my knowledge (to speak nothing of the other myriad
>holes in win98/95)
>
>My question is, where the hell is the private key kept on the users box?
>How is it protected against attack?
 
It's protected by Microsoft asserting that it's protected.  There's also some
sort of attempt at encryption (easily broken, see
http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/breakms.txt), but in any case there are
enough security holes there that anything which manages to run on your system
(ActiveX, as you've mentioned) can grab your keys without a lot of trouble.
 
Peter.
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: MusicBoulevard 
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 02:15:19 +0800
To: "cypherpunks@toad.com>
Subject: ** Specials from MusicBoulevard
Message-ID: <199811061725.MAA07921@butkus>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




******************************************************
Music Boulevard is excited to announce:

* This Week's New Release Lineup
* The Essential Time Life Christmas Collection CD
* Our New Music Gear Department (CD Racks, Headphones, 
  and more... )
* An incredible new album from Burt Bacharach & 
  Elvis Costello - Painted From Memory
******************************************************

Dear Cypher,

Music Boulevard has some amazing new offers headed 
your way. 

We've got new music and exclusive new departments that 
put the music you want right where you want it. 

Starting with 10 hot new releases...

---1---
John Lennon
The John Lennon Anthology [Box]
http://www.musicblvd.com/cgi-bin/tw/3752_43_622293^S&FP=MB-NR

---2---
Alanis Morissette
Supposed Former Infatuation
http://www.musicblvd.com/cgi-bin/tw/3752_43_623127^S&FP=MB-NR

---3---
REM
UP 
http://www.musicblvd.com/cgi-bin/tw/3752_43_620749

---4---
U2
The Best of 1980-1990 Ltd
http://www.musicblvd.com/cgi-bin/tw/3752_43_625068^S&FP=MB-NR

---5---
Beck
Mutations
http://www.musicblvd.com/cgi-bin/tw/3752_43_624859

---6---
Luciano Pavarotti & Friends
Pavarotti & Friends for the Children of Liberia Classical
http://www.musicblvd.com/cgi-bin/tw/3752_43_612938^S&FP=MB-NR

---7---
Garth Brooks - Advance Order: Order now before it hits the stores!
Double Live
http://www.musicblvd.com/cgi-bin/tw/3752_43_625372^S&FP=MB-NR

---8---
Herbie Hancock
Gershwin's World
http://www.musicblvd.com/cgi-bin/tw/3752_43_613064

---9---
Louis Armstrong - Advance Order: Order now before it hits the stores!
An American Icon
http://www.musicblvd.com/cgi-bin/tw/3752_43_624856

---10---
Taj Mahal
In Progress & In Motion 1965-1998 [Box Set]
http://www.musicblvd.com/cgi-bin/tw/3752_43_613571^S&FP=MB-NR

These are just a few of the hot albums that Music Boulevard 
puts at your fingertips -- 24 hours a day, every day. 
For other new releases, visit:
http://www.musicblvd.com/cgi-bin/tw/3752_0_new_releases.txt

--------------------------------------------------------------

We've also got the best new holiday music available anywhere...

Get ready to celebrate the holiday season with
The Time-Life Treasury of Christmas
http://www.musicblvd.com/cgi-bin/tw/3752_43_627350

This exclusive 2-CD collection features over 40 timeless
recordings by the greatest singers of our era.

We also have a new Holiday Music Department at:
http://www.musicblvd.com/cgi-bin/tw/3752_20_hol

--------------------------------------------------------------

Our new music gear department is now open for business ...

Music Boulevard is proud to announce our new Music Gear Department, 
where you'll find CD cases, storage units, cleaners, shelving, 
headphones, electronics and much more!  
http://www.musicblvd.com/cgi-bin/tw/3752_20_acc

--------------------------------------------------------------

And finally, we've got a great deal on Elvis Costello & 
Burt Bacharach's new album.

One of the year's most acclaimed albums,
Painted From Memory is now on sale.
http://www.musicblvd.com/cgi-bin/tw/3752_43_582448

It's the duo of the decade and they've joined forces in what 
critics are hailing as a pop masterpiece and an unparalleled 
musical event. (And its on sale today!)

And remember our top 100 Sellers are ALWAYS on sale.
http://www.musicblvd.com/cgi-bin/tw/3752_0_lists/t100.txt

We're very excited about this week's lineup, and hope you enjoy 
the great selection, service and convenience that's made us the
#1 online music store.

>From one music fan to another,

Chris Hoerenz
Store Manager
http://www.musicblvd.com/

 

P.S. If, for any reason, you'd prefer not to receive future 
updates or announcements from Music Boulevard, you may reply 
to this email and type "unsubscribe" as the subject line of 
your reply to stop receiving emails.



[94454-981105]




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 00:07:02 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Spy News
Message-ID: <199811081454.JAA30292@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



NYT reports today on a new book, "Blind Man's Bluff,"
which reports on the US's success at placing surveillance 
devices on Soviet subsea communications cables around 
the world. With much technical detail about how it was 
done, beginning with the simple but overlooked idea of 
locating shoreline warning signs about undersea cables 
then tracking from there.

The devices, some up to 20 feet long for housing elaborate 
processing equipment, captured electronic emanations, thereby 
eluding detection measures aimed at physical taps. One was 
found by the Soviets but  most were not and much information 
on the program is still classified.

AT&T and Bell labs built many of them. The US Navy will not 
comment on the book, citing national security restrictions.

The Times also has an obituary for Tommy Flowers, the gent who 
guided construction of Colossus machines at Bletchley Park to 
break top-level German codes during WW II.

There's still interesting debate about the Paul Dore story of
picking up signals from space, which he first thought were from
aliens, but which seems more likely to be from a surveillance
satellite, and possibly from a type not publicly known. Not enough
data yet to show that the story is not a hoax, or disinformation by
US/UK spy agencies, but it has led to informative discussion of 
what such signals could indicate. Notes on this at:

   http://jya.com/project415.htm

More commentary welcome, here or privately.

Some will recall a vigorous discussion here a few years back
about listening in on US undersea cables, commencing at the
landfall points (dense packs of them here in the NYC area), 
many handily marked on coastal seafaring maps.

Or, for more up-to-date technology, setting a receiver to point in
the direction of those on TLA bases (needing an x-ray of the
concealing radome).





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 03:36:53 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: IP: Crunch Time for Y2K Suppliers (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811081712.LAA05240@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 00:35:04 -0500
> From: Declan McCullagh 
> Subject: Re: IP: Crunch Time for Y2K Suppliers

> Seems to me that it would have been just as easy for "believer" to send the
> URL to the story as the whole thing. Same with ol'VZ.
> 
> Not only is it in poor taste, but it means less people will read the
> article on wired.com, which is what pays the rent.

True, but since when is freedom of speech, association, and press related to
wired (or you) making a profit?

I feel zero social responsibility to tell people to go there and read it
when I can send a snippet of it to them directly and save them the time,
effort, and bandwidth. I personaly absolutely *HATE* to recieve a piece of
email that contains nothing but a URL, it's worthless - lacks all context.

Don't like folks sending partial or whole articles to foster discussion,
learn to love it or live with it.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 04:08:24 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Forwarded mail...
Message-ID: <199811081742.LAA05396@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Ah, what the hell. It's a good day to practice the golden rule.

Forwarded message:

> Date: 8 Nov 1998 04:40:03 -0000
> From: lcs Mixmaster Remailer 
> 

> It seems so pointless to correct Choate.  The guy is almost totally
> impervious to enlightenment.  But a couple of whoppers have to be
> pointed out...

Speakin of pointless anonymous know-it-all bullshit ....

> Electrons don't "carry" photons.

Actualy they carry the probability wave for the photon (which technicaly
could be anywhere in the universe at any given time because of space
contraction caused by relativistic effects), but for this particular
discussion which concerns ionized or non-correlated electrons carrying a
unit charge and Joules of energy (which is where the photon comes in you
anonymous fucking ignoramus) saying the electron is carrying a photon is
sufficient.

>  An atom can absorb a photon, raising
> an electron to a higher energy level, but the photon is then gone.

Well actualy to be absolutely exact the photon is locked between the protons
and the electron. It is *NEVER* gone or destroyed. You can't destroy energy,
only transform it's form. The photon is *NEVER* absorbed by anything.

Now exactly how is the 'higher energy' level expressed?  By a *PHOTON* of
shorter wavelength (E=hv) you know-nothing smart-ass anonymous dick-muncher.

> a single moving electron certainly doesn't carry a photon.  Photons move
> at the speed of light, always.

Only when they are not correlated to a particle such as a proton or an
electron. When an electron or a proton carry a packet of energy (measured in
Joules) it most certainly carries a photon. Let's look at the electrical
characteristic called voltage (you probably haven't heard of this since the
rest of your pseudo-science is as full of bullshit as your mouth) which is
measured in Joules/Coulomb. Now a Coulomb of electrons moving past a given
point in a unit second is an Amp of current. Want to explain how those
electrons manage to carry those Joules of photons if their isn't a
correlation? I didn't think you did you anonymous lying sack of horse sperm.

Since photons *ARE* light (you fucking anonymous ninny) your last point is
irrelevant and redundant. Of course they ALWAYS travel at the speed of
light, it's how we define light in the first place.

> Quarks are constituents only of baryons.  There are no quarks in electrons
> or photons.

Quarks are constituents of hadrons you dumbass prick sucking gay boy. Protons
and Neutrons are hadrons built from 3 quarks and some other bosons (some
vector and some not) that glue the nucleus together. Electrons and photons
are called Leptons (because they are their own vector boson). Electrons carry
electrical unit negative charge and photons carry EM fields.

A Baryon is a distinction based on the type of quarks that make up the
hadron. If the paticle is made up of no anti-quarks it's a baryon, othwise
it's a meson.

God, what a load of quantum mechanical horse hockey you spout this fine
Sunday morning. I can't hardly wait to see what other anonymous drivel you
spew out of your syphilis infested mouth next.

> The net charge within the sphere will not change.

Then you need to go back to school and learn Gauss's Law all over again.
It's ok, you'll probably get it in the first semester unless they recognize
what a dumb-ass you are and put you in the remedial section. Then I believe
you'll be scheduled to cover those topics your Junior year.

> If the box in the
> middle with the "spark gap" is spraying out electrons, this can only mean
> that the box is itself becoming positively charged.  The sphere sees a
> constant charge within itself; at best, the charge can be redistributed.

Which is the whole point to this exercise. The simple fact that I can put a
battery powered radio in a metal sphere as described and *STILL* receive
the signal proves the model works within the constraints of the original
thesis.

Don't believe me? Try it at home with a couple of collanders soldered
together.

The charge is re-distributed to the surface of the sphere, the total charge
of the entire system does stay constant (at least until the insulation
breaks down).

> There are no net changes of charge within the sphere and so there will
> be no changes in any charge appearing on the outside of the sphere.

If that were so we wouldn't have a spark in the ball to begin with.

> Choate's whole model of how a spark gap transmitter works, and why it
> emits electromagnetic radiation, is so bizarre that it is hard to believe.
> Someone else can bang their head against the brick wall of his ignorance
> on that topic.

Who said anything about a spark gap transmitter? We were talking about a
battery powered spark gap. Not the same thing at all you anonymous weenie
sucker.

> Choate is, by far, the worst poster on the cypherpunks list today.  He
> posts off-topic material, he is argumentative, and 90% of the time, he
> is simply wrong.

Oh, your just jealous I want let you suck my dick junior.

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 05:03:11 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811081809.MAA05525@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 00:18:26 -0500
> From: Michael Hohensee 
> Subject: Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone (fwd)

> You missed my point.  What I'm trying to point out is that no government
> (or any other body, for that matter) can prevent someone from doing
> something.

Of that we agree. Which is why I will continue to believe the issues we deal
with are not government problems but people problems.

> All the state can do (and does, if you look closely) is
> offer to punish anyone who disobeys it.  It doesn't matter whether that
> state is protecting individual rights or not --it can only punish, not
> prevent.

Well to be even more exact, they offer a guarantee of retribution if they
can catch or prove somebody broke a law.

Of course we could posit a government that pairs everyone up in groups of
two (a perpetual no-lone zone), the ultimate police state.

> I'm explaining why it is impossible for the state to protect individual
> rights.

I suspect we're playing word games here with 'protect'. I am not refering to
what my neighbor does to me when he gets pissed off that my stereo is too
loud. That obviously the government (local, state, or federal) can do
nothing about a priori. Where the governemnt (at all levels) *CAN* in fact
protect individual rights is the way they create the laws they enforce on
all citizens (eg tax laws or dope-smoking laws). Those most certainly can be
crafted to prevent abuse of civil liberties. Our own Constitution is a
perfect example. The problem is the *people* who we elect believe they are
above it and instead of asking "Do the laws we pass conform to the letter
and intent of the Constitution?" instead state "It's a flexible document
that is hard to interpet because of wording and changes in society". They
want an out to not have to play by the rules. Nothing more and nothing less.

> I offer two mechanisms by which the state *could* _protect_
> individual rights, and then point out why they are impossible.  It is
> something of a strawman argument, but if you disagree, I'm willing to
> tear down any mechanism you might propose. :)

See above. It isn't the rules that matter, it's the respect the arbiters of
the rules have *for* the rules that matter. With that clearly in mind *any*
mechanism is doomed to fail from the beginning.

> > > All any state can do is threaten to "retaliate" against (why not just
> > > say "attack") people who disobey its edicts.  In order for this threat
> > > to be credible, the state must wield sufficient power to kill any
> > > individual (or group of individuals) who would stand against it.  If it
> > > does not have this power, it cannot govern.
> > 
> > This is a quaint and completely artificial distinction.
> 
> Is it really?  Then could you please explain to me exactly why I would
> have to pay taxes (or otherwise make submission) to a state which did
> *not* have the power to kill me? 

So you wouldn't have to stand there and watch your house burn to the slab.
So you would have help finding the perpetrator who raped your daughter last
night. So when you drive down the street it isn't a whole filled muddy tract
through a economicaly impoverished wasteland. So when you write a check you
know there is something behind it that is trustworthy. So when you have that
wrech late some rainy night there is an ambulance and a hospital to take you
to.

As to your (and others) particular focus on taxes, all it would take to
resolve that issue is a single law:

No citizen may have their home, personal property, or their liberty
infringed or removed because of tardy taxes. Of course I'd add a section in
there that would direct the tax accessor of the appropriate local to send a
note to all relevant services to refuse to provide services to you. I'd even
them impound vehicles that were operated on public streets without the
appropriate licenses.

Don't want to let your house burn down, fine. Let the fucker burn to the
slab. Your daughter gets raped, fine. You figure out who did it on your own.
Don't want to pay vehicle and related taxes, fine don't drive your vehicle
on public streets.

Just face it. It isn't the threat of violence that pisses you off. It's that
you have social responsibilities to those around you. Taxes represent a
responsibility that you don't want and to hell with the consequences.

> this in a physical sense, not a legal one-- then what is to stop me or
> anyone else from telling it to fuck off?  Such a state cannot govern
> those who do not wish to be governed, and so would not be a government.

No state can govern those who don't wish to be governed, violence or no.

[I've deleted a great gob of this since it's the same just rehashed in
different sentences.]

And to answer a specific question, I'm familiar with Dawkins work.

> When two bears approach the same berry bush, they do not immediately
> start fighting over it.

What time of year is it? If we're talking in the spring when they're just
out of hibernation they will begin to attack immediately. If it is two males
in rut in the fall they will attack immediately. If you examine the way
Alaskan Browns share the Salmon runs in the spring you will find ample
evidence why Dawkins example isn't worth the paper it's writ on.

>  Instead, they each stick to one side of the
> bush, and do not disturb one another.

Malarcky. I'm familiar with the way bears and other mammals work and this is
gibberish. Unless the bears are related one of them will be finding another
bush pronto.

> pretty good at attacking things.  It would be pretty easy for a
> exceptional bear to break this rule, and become dominant over the other
> bears, if what you say is true.

Except your forgetting the nature of bears. Except in heat bears are
solitary animals. They don't like groups and avoid them. They defend their
territory to whatever level of force is required. In most cases (Alaskan
Brown are a well studied example you can find tons of literature on) they
will not even approach each other closer than several hundred feet. So the
question of them sharing a berry bush is a contrived example that is
irrelevant and doesn't occur in nature outside of family groups that are
transient and only last 1-2 years depending on the type of bear and the food
supply.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 05:04:05 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Advertising Creepiness (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811081816.MAA05583@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: Information Security 
> Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 12:59:09 -0500 (EST)
> Subject: Re: Advertising Creepiness

> Would you like to know whether it is "fair use" to repost entire articles?
> 
> I would.

When it is non-profit, and is equivalent to my neighbor bringing his morning
paper over to show me a story (I don't subscribe to the paper so I haven't a
license with the copyright holder in principle or practice) he wants to talk
about.

With the way the law is going that will soon be illegal for me to even look
at the paper, though we can probably still talk about it.

Though the probable next step is to make even that verbal recitation
illegal.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 04:14:10 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Electric power generators ?
Message-ID: <199811081725.JAA08583@smtp.well.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



You're talking about the wired.com article I wrote.

I carefully did not say there is a "shortage" of generators, diesel or
otherwise -- that's your own misreading of it.

I did say that the largest U.S. distributor of diesel generators has half
year delays on the most popular model. Same with bulk food suppliers like
Walton's. Solar power companies also report vastly increased demand.

You can buy cheaper gasoline generators at Home Depot, but there are
reasons people want to pay three or four times as much for a diesel model.
These differences and the other answers to your questions have been
well-documented elsewhere; I'm not inclined to list them for you here,
though others might be.

-Declan



At 05:52 PM 11-7-98 -0600, Igor Chudov @ home wrote:
>
>Hi there,
>
>I saw an article posted about "shortages" of electric power generators
>and other Y2K "survival" goods, such as grains in airtight drums. My
>reading of the article gave me a feel that those products are bullshit
>products geared towards naive losers, and can be easily replaced with
>much cheaper products that can be bought at discount stores.
>
>More careful reading of the article showed that only certain high power
>diesel generators are scarce.
>
>A visit to my local discount retailer has shown that there are 10KW
>gasoline generators available for as little as $500. 10KW is far more 
>than I would need in an emergency. (I will probably need about 2KW).
>
>Questions:
>
>1) Aside from probably lower power, are those cheaper generators somehow
>worse?
>
>2) How reliable are those cheaper generators?
>
>3) What is their expected lifetime, in hours of operation?
>
>4) How hard is it to service them?
>
>5) How do you connect them to the electric system, to properly use
>them as backup? (this may be a stupid question, but I am not very 
>familiar with American system of electric wiring).
>
>6) How much gasoline do they consume if you draw 2KW power from them?
>
>Thank you.
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>char*p="char*p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}
>
>                \=/,         _-===-_-====-_-===-_-==========-_-====-_
>                |  @___oo   (                                        )_
>      /\  /\   / (___,,,}_--=                                          )
>     ) /^\) ^\/ _)        =__       Anything is good and useful if    )
>     )   /^\/   _)          (_                                        )
>     )   _ /  / _)            (         it's made of chocolate.        )
> /\  )/\/ ||  | )_)            (_                                     )
><  >      |(,,) )__)             (   http://www.algebra.com/~ichudov   )
> ||      /    \)___)\             (_                                  _)
> | \____(      )___) )___           -==-_____-=====-_____-=====-___==
>  \______(_______;;; __;;;
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 05:10:18 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: IP: Discover Alien Life With Your PC And SETI (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811081829.MAA05664@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 20:39:58 -0800
> From: Steve Schear 
> Subject: Re: IP: Discover Alien Life With Your PC And SETI

> Perhaps I'm missing something, but it seems to me that if I were an alien
> civilization and wanted to send out a beacon, in as wide an angle as
> possible, across the vast reaches of space and overcome as much of the path
> losses as possible using the least energy I certainly wouldn't use a narrow
> band signal. Quite the contrary, I'd want to spread a low bandwidth
> information signal across the widest practical spectrum. Its much easier to
> increase process gain (the ratio of the baseband information signal to the
> final carrier bandwidth) than transmit power.

The problem becomes the 1/r^2 losses. The receivers on this end have fixed
lower end to their sensitivity that sets a minimal effective energy output
at the transmitter. If you do the math you find that the entire Earth
doesn't generate enough energy to send a spread-spectrum wide-band signal
more than a few light-years out, not worth the effort or the social costs
(nobody'd know about it because radio and television and such wouldn't be
available since we're using all *that* energy for sending the signal).

This might work for a hive mentality society but not for people.

> While a narrow band signal from Arecibo's powerful transmitter/antenna
> combination can be detected at a distance of about 300 light years.

Since it's only been transmitting intermittenly about 30 years that's more
than a tad moot.

> Switching to a spread spectrum approach could allow broadening the antenna
> pattern, and thereby its chances of detection, significantly without
> reducing its effective range.

Spread spectrum won't effect the beam angle of the dish, that's set when the
dish is designed - spread spectrum or not. Also you'll need to build a new
set of LMB's since the old ones won't be able to handle the frequency range
or the gross power input required to keep the new signal at a given
frequency at a respectible power level with the other frequencies we're now
operating on in parallel. That baby's gonna get hot.

> Notice how 63 dB (or over 2,000,000 fold
> effective increase in transmit power) of process gain enables handheld GPS
> receivers to pull in signals from satellites, sent using only a few watts
> of transmit power, without much of an antenna.

It's amazing how much you can pull in when you increase the sensitivity of
the front-end and use mechanisms to reduce noise.

> If all this seems to make sense, then why are the SETI people apparently
> seaching the skies with lots of narrow band receivers? They don't seem to
> be employing any broadband correlator techniques, so spread signals will
> probably be missed.

Then you haven't been keeping up with the Million Channel Receiver system
that has been operating at Aricebo for several years. You also haven't been
keeping up with the folks out at White Sands either who also impliment
receivers of the same spread-spectrum type. Just about all the current big
money (there ain't any since the feds cut the budget several years ago)
projects use this system and the small-money and individual projects also
impliment it but at a lower range of bandwidth sampled.

It isn't that these folks don't want to use the latest technology it's that
they can't.....$$$.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 06:56:54 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone (fwd)
Message-ID: <5F152E6E8E6FD21195DF00104B2425AD02B266@yarrowbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




> You missed my point.  What I'm trying to point out is that no 
> government (or any other body, for that matter) can prevent 
> someone from doing something. All the state can do (and does,
> if you look closely) is offer to punish anyone who disobeys it.

Again that is simply incorrect, or do you wish to tell me that our military
has not prevented the invasion of the continental US in this century, or
that it did not prevent the Soviet Union from expanding across Europe? You
cannot completely discount *deterrent force*, although it is greatly
overrated.

Nor can a government use *retribution force* if it does not know the
perpetrator.

Your statement boils down to the government is not omnipotent. Well duh!

	Matt




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Steve Schear 
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 06:39:34 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: A question about the new ISP ruling and email... (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199811080408.WAA04069@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>>        `(B) accommodates and does not interfere with standard
>> technical measures.
>>
>>           `(2) DEFINITION- As used in this subsection, the term
>> `standard technical measures' means technical measures that are used
>> by copyright owners to identify or protect copyrighted works and--
>>
>>      `(A) have been developed pursuant to a broad consensus of
>> copyright owners and service providers in an open, fair, voluntary,
>> multi-industry standards process;
>
>So this is voluntary?
>
>>     `(B) are available to any person on reasonable and
>> nondiscriminatory terms; and
>
>Meaning they themselves aren't copyrighted?
>
>>    `(C) do not impose substantial costs on service providers or
>> substantial burdens on their systems or
>> networks.
>
>Imposition of *any* cost is a substantial burden.

And this is where we should fight them. When the CDA was struck down one of
the compelling arguments accepted by the court was that it was way too
costly for information providers to police those accessing their sites. The
same argument can easily be made for posted materials, especially the huge
Usenet feed.

--Steve






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 05:02:08 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Milton Friedmann get's pied....
Message-ID: <199811081848.MAA05734@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Seems the Mayor of San Fran and Milton have something in commen....


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------

ps I didn't forward anything from this so that nobody'd get upset they
   missed their meal-train.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 05:23:37 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Advertising Creepiness
Message-ID: <199811081759.MAA27023@panix7.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



   >   From owner-ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com Sat Nov  7 16:04:32 1998
   >   To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com, cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
   >   From: Robert Hettinga 
   >   Subject: IP: Re: A question about the new ISP ruling and email...
   >   Cc: believer@telepath.com
   >
   >   Now *this* should be fun. Someone who claims to be a cypherpunk is now
   >   going to call the copyright police on a non-profit, volunteer news list.

Would you like to know whether it is "fair use" to repost entire articles?

I would.

   >   When the going gets tough, the "tough" rat out the innocent, it appears...

"Innocent" is hardly an accurate description of Michele Moore.

Would you like Information Security to cough up more
color on his netcopping move?

Hey, you ratted me out to the IP list!

;-)

----

   >   From: Steve Mynott 
   >   Subject: Re: Advertising Creepiness
   >
   >   On Sat, Nov 07, 1998 at 11:50:05PM -0800, Tim May wrote:
   >    
   >   > Myself, I try to mostly just snip out a few paragraphs of a story and
   >   > comment on them, fair use and all.
   >   >
   >   > My guess is that nearly all of us skip this junk
   >   > completely, and I think marketing studies will someday confirm this.
   >
   >   Click through rates are something like 2%, so most are screening them out.
   >   I rarely noticed what the ads actually said.
   >
   >   > (Yes, I tried the utilities which purport to flush banner ads, but they
   >   > didn't work well (long delays, cruftiness).)
   >
   >   I don't know which ones you have tried but junkbuster 
   >
   >   http://www.junkbuster.org/ (a proxy on port 8000)
   >
   >   works _very_ well on my linux system, particularly with the "blank gif"
   >   patch.
   >
   >   It blanks out 99% of banner gifs, which makes pages like metacrawler and
   >   wired look more visually attractive and load faster.

But, when sites get smarter about using server-side includes,
the I/O delays will still be there.

I think ISPs should offer a proxy service for WWW access. They have
bigger pipes.

This could include an opt-in (configure through an ISP-local WWW page)
adbuster. At the same time, it would to a certain extent anonymize
access.

And let's say cable-modem access becomes wide-spread, and legislation
forces the cable companies to allow ISP choice. I think ISPs that offer
some privacy in user access over this shared medium will have a leg-up
on their competition.

That would involve software residing local to the user's box that
would encrypt access between them and the ISP for WWW, email, ftp, etc.
More than just ssh.

Hey, then you would finally have ads that make clear what encryption
is for the average user: picture two neighbors going to work in the
morning meeting in the elevator, and one starts hinting he knows
what the other was receiving for email, which sites he was surfing...

Maybe the Anonymizer.com people will release/sell such software for ISPs,
and, of course, sans GAK.

---guy




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 06:07:51 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811082058.OAA06231@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: Matthew James Gering 
> Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone
> 	 (fwd)
> Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 12:39:33 -0800 

> > You missed my point.  What I'm trying to point out is that no 
> > government (or any other body, for that matter) can prevent 
> > someone from doing something. All the state can do (and does,
> > if you look closely) is offer to punish anyone who disobeys it.
> 
> Again that is simply incorrect, or do you wish to tell me that our military
> has not prevented the invasion of the continental US in this century, or
> that it did not prevent the Soviet Union from expanding across Europe? You
> cannot completely discount *deterrent force*, although it is greatly
> overrated.

Woah. This extension into foreign powers and such is an entirely different
venue. The entire discussion is based around the question of a government
and those citizens within it. When we start talking about multiple
government and multiple citizen sets the whole issue is orders of magnitude
more complex.

> Nor can a government use *retribution force* if it does not know the
> perpetrator.

Tell that to the hostages that were killed during the occupation of France.

> Your statement boils down to the government is not omnipotent. Well duh!

Agreed.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
       To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.

                                                     Confucius

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Dave Emery 
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 06:12:51 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: TEMPEST laptops (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199811050611.AAA10989@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <19981108155839.C15373@die.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Thu, Nov 05, 1998 at 12:11:20AM -0600, Jim Choate wrote:

> 
> It depends on the frequency. Last time I checked a laser or a maser (both
> are radio waves strictly speaking) travel LOS. The scattering comes from
> beam divergence and incidental refractions and reflections from the
> molecules in the air and supported detritus.

	Lasers are a technology for generating light, not kinds of
radio waves.  And masers are a fairly obscure technology for amplifiying
weak microwave signals in cryogenicly cooled devices.  Both deal with
electomagnetic radiation and obey Maxwells laws ....

> 
> > Microwave ovens work by having the waves bounce around inside a box. Any
> > significant hole or crack (up to roughly half the wavelength) would let the
> > waves out.
> 
> Depends on the size of the hole and location. In most microwave ovens there
> are definite dead-spots (corners and the exact center of the area are
> notorius).

	Most microwave ovens incorperate a motorized metallic device
called a stirrer that sits directly in the beam of energy from the
magnetron and is designed to reflect microwave energy bouncing around
the cavity and change the standing wave pattern as it rotates, resulting
in much more even distribution of energy.   Without the stirrer hots
spots would be much worse...


> 
> > An open top box will not work.
> 
> If the microwaves (for example) are transmitted parallel to the open side it
> might very well work just fine. It's going to depend on a variety of
> factors that will preclude such a blanket statement from being valid.
> 
	Difraction becomes very significant for openings near in scale to
the wavelength of the energy in question, thus the edges of the top will
act to scatter energy in all directions...

> 
> The absolute magnitude isn't really important.
> 
> Most of the signals that are emitted by a computer are not in the 100dB
> dynamic range (@2x=3db that's a signal range of 1:33) , more likely 40-50db
> if that. For a TTL (5V) signal it barely covers 3dB (LOW is <2.5v and a
> high is >=4.75). There simply is no way in hell a signal with a 3dB range is
> going to emit a rf signal that is 100dB.

	This makes no sense whatsoever.  The EM radiation takes place
when changes in the current flowing happen.   Thus radiation occurs only
when the TTL signal changes state, not during either its high voltage or
low volage state.  The amplitude of the current step is determined by
the impedance of the circuit and how fast the logic switches and how
great the voltage or current swing is , and how effectively it gets
radiated is determined by the geometry of the conductor and its
sourounding ohjects.  EM radiation results only from changes in the
magnetic and electric fields, not from their steady state values.   Thus
it is entirely meaningless to talk of the change in steady state values
as only "3 db" when no radiation results from either the steady high or
steady low value.   And indeed near the conductor, the energy radiated
from the current step will be 100 db greater than the ambiant (decibels
are relative units, thus it is meaningless to talk of "radiating a rf
signal that is 100 db").


-- 
	Dave Emery N1PRE,  die@die.com  DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass. 
PGP fingerprint = 2047/4D7B08D1 DE 6E E1 CC 1F 1D 96 E2  5D 27 BD B0 24 88 C3 18




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 05:23:17 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: A question about the new ISP ruling and email...
Message-ID: <199811082015.VAA11783@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 09:29 PM 11/7/98 GMT, phelix@vallnet.com wrote:
>Is an anymous remailer needs to register, what will the implications be?

Armbands next, bubby.

 






  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous nicolo@mach.iavel.li
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 05:21:51 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone
In-Reply-To: <199811071710.LAA02112@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <199811082022.VAA12297@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>You are proposing a means of setting up a benign government.  For it to be
>a government, it must wield sufficient power to rule.  For it to be
>benign, it must be run by "good" men (i.e. those who will not use the
>state to increase their personal power).  But as you pointed out, it is
>foolish to trust that the state will be run by such individuals,
>regardless of who they are.  Thus it would seem that it is impossible to
>create a benign state.  Thus we should avoid having one.

State is not "created" or "set up". This assumes in-born willingness and
desire of subjects to have a state, and that a state becomes because
so-called "people" need it. Or that having a state is somehow natural
order of things.

A state is just an extension of a tribal power structure, or, deeper
into the past, successor to silverback hierarchy. A group of people
(families, clans, etc.) that happen to have power over the rest on some
territory. The centuries long brainwashing to the contrary has
successfully muddled the issue and made it "something complicated and
not for ordinary people to worry about." And a great topic for ranting.

The semantics of this indoctrination are deep in the language. In
newspeak it is impossible to think wrong thoughts. A state is not "run"
by individuals - (that neatly implies that it is something above mere
individuals) - state is just a terrific excuse for individuals for
herding the rest.

"State" is not good or bad, any more that a tree is good or bad. State
is creation of human ability to abstract, and demonstrates
self-limiting attribute of intellect in general. We are capable of
imagining extremely perverse systems for screwing ourselves voluntarily.
Using that to one's personal benefit is as natural as eating. And history
proves that.

The question is, can we really escape newspeak limitations ? Is a new
language required for individuals to exist ? Maybe use of an ancient
tongue that is not polluted with the modern bias ?

Me




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: pgut001@cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 05:02:06 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Blind signal demodulation
Message-ID: <91055510827766@cs26.cs.auckland.ac.nz>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



"Matt Crawford"  wrote:
 
>>The October 1993 Proceedings of the IEEE contain a number of rather ...
>>... They also comment that blind decoders for typical voiceband
>>signals can be implemented on Pentium MMX/UltraSparc-grade hardware.
 
>Did you make specific a more general spec they made, or did you typo the date
>of the issue?
 
Oops, that should be October 1998, not 1993 (ie last months issue).  Sorry
about that.
 
Peter.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill.stewart@pobox.com
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 08:18:47 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Semi-relevant spam - Re: legislation -- read
In-Reply-To: <199811061627.JAA16550@token1.tokensystems.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981109092119.008aab80@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



It was SPAM, but it does have some relevance to the digital cash business,
so I'll comment on it.  The IP address really is tokensystems.com.
They're in the business of selling tokens and/or tickets which
customers can buy and use to pay for access to web sites,
and which web site owners can redeem for cash with tokensystems.
Tickets cost $1 (I think something they sell is 10 cents, though),
and tokensystems keeps 40% of the take, giving the web site 60%.
The target market is viewing artwork on the net, and they claim
to have sold over 4 million tokens, presumably mostly the porn market
(unlike Mark Twain, which probably never handled that much Digicash :-)
The attraction for customers is that unlike plunking down $X
on credit card for membership at a given web site that they might or
might not think was worthwhile, creates lots of credit card transaction records, 
and which would definitely sell their info to spammers, 
they make one transaction and buy tokens which can be used
at multiple sites, reducing the number of transactions.

Tokensystems doesn't list a privacy policy (except that they offer a 
ticket-buying page that doesn't have porn ads for sites that prefer it).
Don't know if this means they don't have a policy, 
or if their policy is to sell customer info to anyone they can.
If they do offer privacy, they might want to post a privacy policy page
(usng whatever ETrust / TrustE calls itself these days),
and it might be an interesting market for Chaumian blinded tokens,
since customers might like knowing their token uses aren't
traceable back to their purchase records.

They also don't say what they do for fraud prevention - looks like
it's probably online clearing, which reduces their risk,
and makes digicash relatively convenient to deploy.


At 09:27 AM 11/6/98 -0700, bob@tokensystems.com wrote:
>Dear Fellow Webmaster:
>
>The recent events and pending legislation that have rocked the web are
>sure to place new restrictions on the business. We think this is a
>very good solution.
>
>Check it out http://209.203.80.254/exe/tpromo1.cgi?7026131
>
>Or call us if you have any questions.
>Bob
>818-559-3484
>
>
>
>
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 00:23:45 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Wang touts spy-proof portable
Message-ID: <3646FFCE.CBF343B6@playboy.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,28483,00.html?st.ne.ni.lh


Wang Global has introduced a new portable computer,
but it's not going to be winning any svelteness
contests. 

Wang's Tempest Mobile Workstation, 3 inches thick
and weighting 14.5 pounds, is designed for
government officials who need spy-proof computers
that don't leak any telltale signals to electronic
eavesdroppers. 
...


I want...




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 02:18:24 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Advertising Creepiness
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 6:04 AM -0800 11/9/98, Declan McCullagh wrote:
>I didn't see Tim's original post, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to see
>such a right "emerge" in claims by media company lawyers. (Probably not the
>advertisers.)
>
>Something that came across our Reuters feed over the weekend is a lawsuit
>by the whitehouse.com folks -- they're pissed that a new version of
>Netscape has some "intelligent" guessing features that, when someone types
>in "whitehouse," automatically take 'em to whitehouse.gov.
>
>Which interferes with the rights of the whitehouse.com porn site, or so the
>argument goes.

Seems to me there are numerous variants and angles:

* If the adbuster is user-controlled, it's like handing a copy of "Time" to
a butler and saying "Please clip out the articles and throw away all the
ads."

* And "clipping services" do this and redistribute the results to clients,
perhaps with some "copyright remuneration" to the publisher (I just don't
know). The ads are obviously not retained.

* If a content supplier (Web page, magazine, etc.) has the power to stop
adbusters from removing ads, does it also have the power to stop font
changes? Or colors? Can a television commercial maker sue to stop viewers
from disabling color when viewing his commercial?

(Of course this wouldn't happen, for various logistical and common sense
reasons, but it seems to me analogous to where users disable dancing Java
applets....if disabling dancing Java applets is ruled a violation of the
advertiser's leasing of the original copyright, why not block anyone who
interferes with a television ad?)

* The "whitehouse.com" --> "whitehouse.gov" thing is just another skirmish
in the whole Namespace War. Corporations will try to get browsers and
search engines to turn spelling errors or perceived errors to their favor.
"intek.com" --> "intel.com"


I'm glad I'm not a lawyer.

--Tim May

Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash.
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Igor Chudov 
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 23:41:23 +0800
To: cypherpunks-outgoing@video-collage.com
Subject: test5
Message-ID: <199811091504.KAA15499@mail.video-collage.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


test5




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Andrew Loewenstern 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 00:43:58 +0800
To: "Phillip Hallam-Baker" 
Subject: Re: Digicash bankruptcy
In-Reply-To: <002701be0939$b34ce720$bf011712@games>
Message-ID: <9811091614.AA00393@ch1d524iwk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Phill writes:
>  The fact that Chaum didn't have the monopoly he appeared to
>  imagine is probably why nobody was queuing up to pay his
>  demands.

Name some other deployable payer anonymous electronic payment systems that are  
in competetion with DigiCash.


andrew




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 23:54:22 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Advertising Creepiness
In-Reply-To: <199811090115.RAA23804@smtp.well.com>
Message-ID: <199811091519.KAA01473@panix2.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




   >   From: Declan McCullagh 
   >   Subject: Re: Advertising Creepiness
   >
   >   Something that came across our Reuters feed over the weekend is a lawsuit
   >   by the whitehouse.com folks -- they're pissed that a new version of
   >   Netscape has some "intelligent" guessing features that, when someone types
   >   in "whitehouse," automatically take 'em to whitehouse.gov.
   >
   >   Which interferes with the rights of the whitehouse.com porn site, or so the
   >   argument goes.

At least it doesn't cost $40 million to get porn from whitehouse.com.
Sounds like a pro-consumer move to me. ;-)


   >   At 12:59 PM 11-8-98 -0500, Information Security wrote:
   >   >   >   From owner-ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com Sat Nov  7 16:04:32 1998
   >   >   >   From: Robert Hettinga 
   >   >   >
   >   >   >   Now *this* should be fun. Someone who claims to be a cypherpunk is now
   >   >   >   going to call the copyright police on a non-profit, volunteer news list.
   >   >
   >   >Would you like to know whether it is "fair use" to repost entire articles?
   >   >
   >   >I would.
   >   >
   >   >   >   When the going gets tough, the "tough" rat out the innocent...
   >   >
   >   >"Innocent" is hardly an accurate description of Michele Moore.
   >   >
   >   >Would you like Information Security to cough up more
   >   >color on his netcopping move?

   >   From declan@well.com Sun Nov  8 20:15:48 1998
   >
   >   Whether you love or hate current copyright laws, it's a stretch to argue
   >   that it's legal to republish (by forwarding) articles in full.
   >
   >   Willfully redistributing copyrighted material in violation of fair use
   >   principles is, depending on the value, also a federal crime. Redistributing
   >   a $1 article to thousands of people would be a felony. (Note I don't
   >   endorse this law, but it's useful to know what the law is.)

I guess that qualifies as a request for more color.

In the local Panix Usenet groups, I've reposted quite a few whole articles,
often from the IP list.

Finally, a couple people made a stink, and officially complained to Panix.

Carl Fink  wrote:
:   On 11 Sep 1998 23:54:58 GMT, Information Security  wrote:

:   Okay, I've been tolerating this for a long time, but:  this is a
:   violation of both Federal and international law. Post URLs, not articles.

My inelegant response:

    Eat me.

The local posters kept applying pressure:

:   But beyond whatever legal consequences this may entail for you
:   personally, I wonder what consequences it could conceivably entail for
:   panix.  Posting copyrighted material to general Usenet newsgroups is
:   one thing -- panix's staff could reasonably claim that they cannot
:   monitor or filter every Usenet newsgroup.  But they could not
:   reasonably make that argument about the local panix newsgroups.

The thread grew full of legal claims, and Panix consulted with lawyers.

In the following post by the owner of Panix, the references
to "sections 1,3,4" are from the IP list's fair use declaration
URL http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml


#   Path: news.panix.com!not-for-mail
#   From: alexis@panix.com (Alexis Rosen)
#   Newsgroups: panix.announce,panix.policy,panix.chat,panix.questions
#   Subject: Determination on copyright issue
#   Date: 17 Sep 1998 11:28:27 GMT
#   Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and Unix, NYC
#   
#   
#   This message is in response to the discussion/flamewar in several groups
#   over the posting of copyrighted material by guy@panix.com. Please read it,
#   think about it, read it again, and think again before posting in response.
#   This is a pretty nasty subject.
#   
#   In the wake of the postings and complaints to staff about guy's postings,
#   I consulted with two lawyers about this issue. One was a BLM, and the other
#   is a BLM and RIPE too. (Those are extremely technical acronyms for Brilliant
#   Legal Mind and Recognized Intellectual Property Expert. :-)
#   
#   [snip]
#   
#   I'm not going to go into the details much, because IANAL. But in short,
#   here's the answer: Fair use is a VERY fuzzily-defined concept, not in
#   principle where it's stated clearly in the law (as quoted here several
#   times recently), but in practice, where the courts try to interpret it.
#   Guy's claim for fair use could easily be correct, according to the BLMs,
#   because it may well qualify under sections 1, 3, and 4. I didn't think
#   so, but then again, I'm not a BLM, much less a RIPE. It would be a truly
#   terrible idea for us to take action, given the reasonable possibility that
#   there is no violation.
#   
#   It was also pointed out to me that Panix can not act against Guy's posts
#   without threatening its own position in any future case that might hinge
#   on whether Panix were an Editor of panix group contents. This might or
#   might not be the case were someone to start posting large quantities of
#   commercial software, but the two cases aren't similar, since guy's
#   postings aren't obvious and uncontestable violations.
#   
#   In any event, the BLMs' opinion was that I should very definitely leave
#   guy alone. This ruling extends to the one or two others that occasionally
#   post copyrighted material of similar nature, including one of Panix's staff.
#   
#   Of course, were the volume of such posts to rise substantially, things might
#   be different. So this should not be seen as an invitation for all Panixians
#   to start posting their favorite copyrighted material here on a regular
#   basis.
#   
#   Lastly: In an ideal world, everyone would learn from this and leave the
#   topic, wiser if sadder. In this less-than-ideal world, if you really want
#   to post a followup, I suggest that you consult a lawyer. If I hadn't, I'd
#   surely have stuck my foot in my mouth all the way up to my knee the first
#   time I posted about this topic.
#   
#   /a

So, I was allowed to continue posting whole articles.

That's what the lawyers advised.

Then, the Digital Copyright Massive Federal Interference Act...

>   Fair Use vs. Intellectual Property: The U.S. Congress
>   passed the Digital Millenium Copyright Act, a bill designed to
>   distinguish between fair use and protected intellectual property
>   in cyberspace.
>   
>        

I chose the IP list as the next-level test case...
---guy




snipped source: http://www.wcco.com/news/stories/news-981106-144532.html

Suspicious Object Found On Capitol Mall Was Not A Bomb

ST. PAUL, Updated 8:35 p.m. November 6, 1998 -- Police hauled away a package
with the words "Impeach Clinton Now" and signed by "the Mad Bomber" from the
state Capitol on Friday, but temporarily lost when it flew out of a bomb
squad trailer.

A KSTP-TV helicopter was following the bomb squad van as it drove off
towing a trailer containing the suspicious package. The station was
taping as the package flew out of the open trailer in the wind and
at least three cars ran over it.

It took police about an hour to find the remains in the highway median.

Some 200 employees, including Gov.-elect Jesse Ventura, were forced to leave
the Capitol...




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 00:04:05 +0800
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199811091527.KAA16405@mail.video-collage.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


>From ichudov  Mon Nov  9 10:27:22 1998
Received: (from ichudov@localhost)
	by mail.video-collage.com (8.9.1a/8.8.5) id KAA16394
	for cypherpunks; Mon, 9 Nov 1998 10:27:22 -0500 (EST)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 10:27:22 -0500 (EST)
From: Igor Chudov 
Message-Id: <199811091527.KAA16394@mail.video-collage.com>
To: cypherpunks
Subject: test5
Reply-To: ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov)
Sender: owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Precedence: bulk
X-Mailing-List: cypherpunks@algebra.com
X-List-Admin: ichudov@algebra.com
X-Loop: cypherpunks@algebra.com


test5




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 01:12:27 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: How to solve the tax problem w/o anarchy or force (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811091643.KAA11939@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: "X" 
> Subject: RE: How to solve the tax problem w/o anarchy or force
> Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 08:56:29 -0700

> I hope against hope that you are being sarcastic, here.  Obviously our
> F**KED up red-tape spewing government could never pull off such an endeavor.
> Unless, of course, there was a simple way to tell the tax-payers apart from
> those wretched NON-payers.  Maybe something like an ARMBAND?  Embedded
> sub-cut microchip?  Bar-code tattoos?
> 
> Now you've got a workable plan!

How do they tell if you pay taxes now? They keep records. The taxpayer could
also be issued a receipt as proof. Make it DL sized and it'd go right in
your wallat.

It would actualy reduce the amount of paperwork because the vast amount of
enforcement labor and resources wouldn't be needed.

Then there is the obvious observation that folks such as yourself wouldn't
lie about not-being a tax-payer if asked by the nice fireman who just saved
your house (after all it would be a serious crime).

Me thinks you protest too much. It isn't that you don't want to pay taxes,
or that you object to paying higher costs for services than a regular tax
payer. You simply want somebody else to pay for the services you use at
no cost to yourself.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 03:26:36 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Advertising Creepiness
In-Reply-To: <199811091403.GAA27556@smtp.well.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 9:50 AM -0800 11/9/98, Tim May wrote:

>Seems to me there are numerous variants and angles:
>
>* If the adbuster is user-controlled, it's like handing a copy of "Time" to
>a butler and saying "Please clip out the articles and throw away all the
>ads."
>
>* And "clipping services" do this and redistribute the results to clients,
>perhaps with some "copyright remuneration" to the publisher (I just don't
>know). The ads are obviously not retained.

By the way, the White House and Pentagon are major forwarders of clipped
material. The daily intelligence briefing, for example, clips from
newspapers, magazines, wire services, etc.

I can understand Declan trying to be a loyal reporter by urging people to
buy the magazine or go to the ad-laden site, but clearly a lot of folks are
already bouncing stuff around cyberspace, including the White House.

It is _remotely_ possible that the gov't. is paying some token amount to
Time Warner, CNN, WSJ, etc., but I doubt it.

Speaking of the gov't. conveniently ignoring what it expects private
players to do, a few days before the California election I got a telephone
phone solicitation from a male voice identifying himself as the Calif.
Secretary of State. Ordinary advertising, right?

Well, it was a) left on my answering machine, and b) was itself a recording.

California officials not subject to the "robot's rules of order" laws,
which forbid the practices above, especially in combination. You can bet
that if J. Random Corporation was using robot dialers and leaving recorded
messages on answering machines there would be the threat of prosecution.
(Actually, most threats to corporations are just shakedowns, and are
considered discharged when the corporation makes the appropriate campaign
contribution.)

Of course, in a system where the Chief Executive can perjure himself with
impunity, can suborn perjury, can tamper with evidence, and can use public
monies to cause his subordinates to suborn perjury and perjure and tamper
with evidence....

(Not to mention violating the export laws and committing high treason by
supplying the Red Chinese with ICBM technology....and kiling Vince Foster
for his attack of conscience and his plans to meet with a reporter....)

Ah, Amerika.

--Tim May

Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash.
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 01:28:05 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: How to solve the tax problem w/o anarchy or force (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811091704.LAA12150@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: "X" 
> Subject: RE: How to solve the tax problem w/o anarchy or force (fwd)
> Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 09:54:00 -0700

> ~> Me thinks you protest too much. It isn't that you don't want to

     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

> ~> pay taxes,
> ~> or that you object to paying higher costs for services than a regular tax
> ~> payer. You simply want somebody else to pay for the services you use at
> ~> no cost to yourself.
> ~>
> 
> I think that remark was unfair, uncalled-for, and rude.  No where in my post
> did I say anything about not wanting to pay.  I thought my post was humorous
> and in the same sarcastic vein as yours.

It was a reply to your statement. If you don't want people to ask questions
or draw conclusions from your statements then perhaps you should rething
even making those statements. As to sarcasm, there was none in my original
posting.

> You have insulted me publicly while having no knowledge of who you were
> slighting.

No, I expressed an opinion as to your motivation. Opinions never insult
except when presented as fact. I did not do that.

Me still thinks yo protest too much.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 02:08:25 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: How to solve the tax problem w/o anarchy or force (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811091725.LAA12280@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: "X" 
> Subject: RE: How to solve the tax problem w/o anarchy or force (fwd)
> Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 10:22:00 -0700

> So you are one of those people that truly believes you can insult someone in
> public, then say, "I was responding to you" and cap it off with "it's my
> opinion" ?  You have formed an opinion about me already?  And that opinion
> includes the fact that I want other people to carry my weight?  How absurd
> you are, little man!

I simply based it on your apparent motivations based on your statements.

> If I had thought you were serious about your article, I would have pointed
> out the huge flaws in your theory.  I gave you credit for well-thought
> sarcasm when apparently it was neither.

I'm waiting...


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "X" 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 03:01:27 +0800
To: "Jim Choate" 
Subject: RE: How to solve the tax problem w/o anarchy or force (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199811091725.LAA12280@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <000b01be0c0f$19720c60$9d2580d0@ibm>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Sorry, everyone, for this crap coming up, but JIM CHOATE wants you all to
see it...

Jim,

You keep reposting this to the cpunx list, and I keep trying to discuss it
with you in private.

X says:
~> > If I had thought you were serious about your article, I would
~> have pointed
~> > out the huge flaws in your theory.  I gave you credit for well-thought
~> > sarcasm when apparently it was neither.
~>
And Jim's witty response was:
~> I'm waiting...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the gist of your system was a two-tiered
payment schedule where Group A could be called TaxPayers and Group B could
be called NON-Payers.  Right?

And basically, Group A would get all of the benefits that a fully paid
membership would entail, right?  Secondly, Group B would "not pay taxes" and
would NOT be entitled to any benefits save for on a pay-as-you-go type
arrangement.  Right?

What USGov't services do you include in your proposal?  Let's list a few,
(feel free to jump in with some more.)
U.S. Mail services
Common defense
Air traffic controlling
roadways and interstates
Food and Drug Administration approvals
Federally mandated minimum wage
automobile safety standards

Is your tax progressive or regressive?

If I'm right so far (which I may or may not be) then we have to talk about
your definition of "paying taxes."  Does a single woman raising five kids
and paying a small mortgage making  $14,200 per year pay taxes?  No,
unfortunately for her, she doesn't.  I guess that puts her smack into GROUP
B!  Well, that's simple enough!  We'll deny her the creature comforts of the
list above until she chips in her proportionate cost, right?  When that
libertarian bitch tries to send mail, we'll charge her more!  WHen she gets
on the freeway, we'll toll her!  When she buys a medicine for her snot-nosed
urchin, we'll give her the stuff that ain't been FDA approved, right?
RIGHT!  And, if ever we should need to attack another country (or defend
ours, as you pointed out) SHE'LL happily volunteer to serve (as I remember
your post) in order to protect her TAX-FREE STATUS.

As you said to me, she's probably just looking for someone to shoulder her
part of the load, right?

You said it would be easy to implement, right?  I don't see that it would be
easy at all.

Once again, I apologize for the OFF TOPIC nature of this, but MR. COHATE
(freudian slip, or merely coincidence?  you be the judge!) insisted on
duking this out in public.

X




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 02:26:00 +0800
To: Ray Arachelian 
Subject: Re: Advertising Creepiness
In-Reply-To: <36471E6E.3E8E96D4@brainlink.com>
Message-ID: <199811091746.LAA05131@pompano.pcola.gulf.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



In <36471E6E.3E8E96D4@brainlink.com>, on 11/09/98 
   at 11:55 AM, Ray Arachelian  said:

>Might be nice to have some sort of filter list for browsers that says "If
>GIF89 and (it's linked elsewhere, or to a CGI or at the top of the page)"
>don't show it.  I guess it's time to do some Mozilla source hacking...

Rather than hacking nutscrape you might want to run through a modified
proxy and have it filter all such garbage.

This stuff is not a problem as I only run textmode for http with no
java/javascript. If I can't navigate a website that way it is their loss.


-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
---------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ray Arachelian 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 01:30:47 +0800
To: Tim May 
Message-ID: <36471E6E.3E8E96D4@brainlink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Tim May wrote:
> This is the new "blind spot"...that foveal region about a third of the way
> down a Web page screen that has dancing icons, "click on me" junk, and
> corporate logos. My guess is that nearly all of us skip this junk
> completely, and I think marketing studies will someday confirm this. (There
> have been tantalizing reports in places like the "Wall Street Journal" that
> basically almost nobody sees these ads, but the full message hasn't sunk
> in.)
> 
> And the advertising creeps are getting even creepier. Intel was running a
> banner ad that looked like a typical Mac or Windows error/alert box,
> something like "Click Here to Resume Operation." Creepy. And annoying.

Yep, I ignore them completely.  A few of those search here type things did
catch my attention.  My basic hatred of these isn't that they exist, but that
they're large, annoying, and animated.  Typically, soon as I see the page fully
load I hit ESC or the Stop icon to prevent these evil horrors from popping up.

A much more evil thing that I've seen when visiting pages of tripod or other
free web site members and now warehouse.com are actual Java Japplets or
JavaScripts that pop up another window with an advertisement.  Tripod or one of
those (I tend to try and forget the ads as hard as I can) has also taken to
putting a TV like lower right corner logo that hangs around, even when you
scroll the window -- what's really nasty about these fucking things is that
they scroll a bit with the window, then jump back to the bottom.

What's next?  In your face pop up Gif89 movies with AU/WAV sound tracks that
can't be dismissed until they play completely before you get to see the content
pages?

Some places (like Wired?) are annoying since they have a window that's 1/3
content with ads on top and on the side and bottom.  I'm trying to read the
fucking article, not trying to be distracted by the flashing, flickering eye
sores to the right and left. :(

Some of the really fucked up sites actually have porno ads with porn in them,
which makes them real welcome if I ever visit a page from my work.  I wouldn't
mind the pr0n if I was at home, but such things are frowned upon at work, and
fuck, I didn't even ask to see the shit... :(

Talk about feeping creatureism.  This is about as bad as flashing HTML was in
its inception.

Sure you can disable JavaScript, but if you do some sites won't work at all.
Ditto for Japplets.

Might be nice to have some sort of filter list for browsers that says "If GIF89
and (it's linked elsewhere, or to a CGI or at the top of the page)" don't show
it.  I guess it's time to do some Mozilla source hacking...


-- 

=====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos==============
.+.^.+.|       Sunder       |Prying open my 3rd eye.  So good to see |./|\.
..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were      |/\|/\
<--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run  |\/|\/
../|\..| "A toast to Odin,  |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/.
.+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were....            |.....
======================= http://www.sundernet.com ==========================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 03:02:35 +0800
To: Matthew James Gering 
Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone	 (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <5F152E6E8E6FD21195DF00104B2425AD02B258@yarrowbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 4:25 PM -0500 11/6/98, Matthew James Gering wrote:
>Matthew James Gering wrote:
>> >Provided you don't corrupt the meaning of free-market to include
>> >any possible black market, then yes, there will *always* be a
>> >black market. It can be made rather insignificant however.
>
>Petro responded:
>> Assuming your definition of "free market" is "a market without
>> regulation", you can't have a black market in a free market
>> since a black market is trade in violation of regulations.
>
>Like I said, if you don't corrupt the meaning of free market.
>Laissez Faire capitalism is based on a concept of individual rights.
>Therefore the proper role of any government (in a libertarian state) or
>individual/social institution (in rational anarchy) is to protect individual
>rights (life, liberty, property), and act as an objective framework for
>retributive force.
>Therefore, any transaction that violates individual rights is immoral (if
>not illegal) and constitutes a black market.
>e.g. assassinations, ransom, stolen goods, extortion, slavery, etc.
>To create a anarcho-capitalist definition of free market where everything
>goes and there is no concept of individual rights is as immoral and perverse
>as the statist concepts that similarly have no concept of individual rights
>(fascism, communism).

	Traditional usage of the term "black market" (at least in my
experience with the term) includes the markets for things often proscribed
(such as weapons, drugs, abortions) or marketed outside of the legally
mandated channels (food, clothing, liquor etc. purchased from non-approved
stores) or w/out government approved taxes being levied. Legal issues, not
moral ones. To try to discuss the markets in terms of "human rights", or to
expect the market to reflect ones own morality is ridiculous.

	Is slavery wrong? Would a Saudi Arabian, or a Kuwaitee (Kuwaition?)
agree? What about drugs, does their use violate your human rights
principle? Would someone from the South Side of Chicago, or Watts agree?

	The market itself is only concerned with legality, not morality.
Discussions of right and wrong do not take place at that point, and neither
do questions of "human rights".

	My point was that as you move towards the "ideal" of a free market,
there is less and less that one can call a "black market". True, things can
still be illegal--Slavery, drugs and the rest, and those things which

	Oh, and Extortion is already part of the market, it's called taxes.
--
"To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a
jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a
gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather naďve, and certainly
unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust"
http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html

Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro@playboy.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 04:08:00 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 6:38 PM -0500 11/6/98, Jim Choate wrote:
>Forwarded message:
>
>> Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 12:34:34 -0500
>> From: Petro 
>> Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone
>>  	 (fwd)
>
>> 	Assuming your definition of "free market" is "a market without
>> regulation", you can't have a black market in a free market since a black
>> market is trade in violation of regulations.
>
>Actualy a black market is usualy goods gotten through theft or other illegal
>means, not necessarily anything related to how or what is sold. If you don't
>corrupt free-market to include legitimizing theft as a viable market
>strategy then yes, you can in fact have a black market in a free-market.

	Usualy != Correctly.

	Take tomatoes. Perfectly legal (AFAIK) everywhere, here in this
country a 5 year old child can buy a tomato from a farmer with a stand on
the side of the road.

	If you go back 10 years, and if "this country" was the soviet
union, a tomato purchased from the wrong person could get you in trouble.

	Entirely HOW the item was sold.

	This is true in this coutry. Licquor is legal if purchased thru the
approved store.

	Try selling the same thing out of the back of your truck.

	It is the product, or how the product is sold.

>Let's consider auto-theft. The issue isn't that you can't buy the car
>through legitimate means, it just means you have to have more resources than

	So take ampthetimines (well, don't take them, but take the case of
them), if I get them from Joe Random Drug Dealer, it's black Market, if I
get them from Paul the Doctor, it's "white" market.

	In fact, if I get them from Paul the Doctor, and then sell them to
someone else, I am selling them on the black market, even if I recieved
them legally, so in this case, it isn't how the item was aquired, it's
whether the _sale_, the *exchange* is legal.

>you have. So what do you do? You find somebody whose stolen a vehicle and is
>willing to sell it to you at a discount.
>
>> 	In other words, a Black market is when you trade either illegal
>> goods illegally, or legal goods illegally.
>Too strict and unrealistic a definition of black market.

	Not at all. It's quite wide open. It covers every non-legal
transaction.

>> 	If there are no illegal goods, and there is no regulations limiting
>> trading, then the black market cannot exist.
>Of course not since we've now legitimized theft and murder with your
>definition.

	I didn't think of theft when I wrote the above, and I don't usually
consider murder for hire markets as part of the black market, altho you
have a point.

	I still maintain that as one moves closer to a completely free
market, there is less and less of a black market, and to be the extrememe
case of a free market, there would be the potential to trade in both human
lives, and in stolen property.  In a free market, the selling of stolen
goods might not be a crime in and of itself, but the posession of those
things could be, and the aquireing would be, as well, the _hiring_ of an
assassin might be legal, as long as no killing took place. When it does,
you hang the assassin on murder, and the hirer on conspiracy, aiding and
abetting or whatever, and stick them in the same cell.
--
"To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a
jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a
gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather naďve, and certainly
unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust"
http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html

Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro@playboy.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 06:24:22 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: How to solve the tax problem w/o anarchy or force (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199811090631.AAA09682@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <199811092156.NAA13957@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



country have let it get out of control for many decades.
the idea that "someone else handles that stuff" has infected
our consciousness. govt is something WE handle if we want
a good one. if you want something done right, do it yourself.

cpunks actually contribute to this problem with their nihilistic
philosophy in general. the msg is that it is a waste of time
to engage in group activity or political discourse or lobbying
against the govt or organization or *whatever*... it's actually
just a variant on the sheeple passivity. sheeple are like, "that's
not my job". cpunks are like, "it is a waste of time and energy
to do that job". what's the difference in the end??

the govt can be turned around very, very quickly if the public
stops sucking down sixpacks and being hypnotized by meaningless
dribble of sporting events and sitcoms that parade endlessly
across their nanosecond attention span. maybe they might read
even more than a comic book or pornographic magazine some day.
the political class *intentionally* created this bread and
circus atmosphere and are hiding behind the scenes as we
speak. no dorothy do not look at the man behind the curtain.

some new books are encouraging signs. "secrecy" by moynihan. there
is a new book on the "third party" or something like that which
proposes a new political party, and is selling very well on
amazon. a new book by gerry spence lawyer talks about how the
u.s. population is enslaved. the material is there for those
who seek it. "when the student is ready the teacher will appear"




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 06:41:17 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: NSA Threatens To "OUT" Republicans Over Hubbell Investigation
Message-ID: <199811092205.OAA14797@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: softwar@us.net (CharlesSmith)
Subject: IP: NSA Threatens To "OUT" Republicans Over Hubbell Investigation
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 16:53:35 -0500 (EST)
To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com

President Clinton has tried to avoid the subject of encryption
exports to China while considering the release of Israeli
crypto-spy Jonathan Pollard.  Yet, encryption has played a large
role in a foreign donation scandal with one of Clinton's closest
associates, Webster Hubbell.

After losing at the polls, Republican insiders are grumbling
that they could not investigate Hubbell because the secret
National Security Agency (NSA) is threatening to retaliate
against hill members.

Webster Hubbell took money from Lippo in 1994.  Mr. Hubbell
served time in Federal prison because of his Whitewater
uncovered during Ken Starr's investigation.  

In 1993, Attorney General Janet Reno tasked Mr. Hubbell to
encryption under the CLIPPER encryption chip project.  Hubbell
had access to highly classified materials on encryption chip
design, including algorithms and software.  Hubbell met often in
the White House with now CIA Director George Tenet on the
CLIPPER project.

According to a Republican Capitol Hill staff member the "NSA
does not want Hubbell investigated."  The NSA has quietly
threatened to "out any congressional member like (Congressman)
Burton" who mentions Hubbell with encryption and China.

The NSA threat is not a hollow one because the agency is
certainly equipped with incriminating and/or embarrassing
personal information gathered from years of phone intercepts.
The NSA is the prime listening agency for national intelligence.

The NSA is equipped with satellites, super computers, employs an
estimated 25,000 and has a budget estimated to be one third of
the $26 billion U.S. intelligence budget each year.

John Huang, Ron Brown and Web Hubbell were deeply involved in
classified NSA encryption systems.  Specifically, John Huang,
Lippo banker, DNC fundraiser and secret-cleared Commerce
employee was briefed 37 times by the CIA on satellite encryption
technology.  According to the Commerce Department, Mr. Huang had
no encryption materials.

CLIPPER, according to secret Clinton documents, was to be
implemented by law whether it by "mandatory" legislation or a
"voluntary" system of taxpayer backed payments.  The CLIPPER
chip, according to a secret FBI document, also had an
"exploitable" feature allowing the U.S. government to monitor
communications.

The NSA CLIPPER chip was intended to provide all the banking and
financial security for the entire United States.  It was to be
required in every computer, fax and phone manufactured.

According to more secret FBI documents, CLIPPER also had one big
flaw.  A single penetration of the master key list would
compromise the entire system.

Ron Brown insisted that the Commerce Department be one of the
master CLIPPER key holders.  President Clinton tasked Brown to
the project in 1993 in a top-secret executive order.  According
to Nolinda Hill, Brown was aware that the encryption transfers
to China were bordering on treason.  

NASA administrator Benita Cooper wrote in 1993 that "compromise
of the NSA keys, such as in the Walker case, could compromise
the entire EES (CLIPPER) system."  Ms. Cooper at NASA knew
convicted spy John Walker sent tons of materials on U.S. secret
code systems to Russia for years during the Cold War.  One
breach of CLIPPER in a NASA computer could kill many and ruin
the agency.

In 1994 President Clinton began personally authorizing the
export of advanced, nuclear hardened, encryption technology
directly to communist China.  The exports took place with
presidential waivers that included the signature of Bill
Clinton.  They also took place using loopholes and bureaucratic
gray areas of U.S. export law.

The Clinton exports included such military items as advanced
fiber optic communications; radiation hardened encrypted
satellite control systems, encrypted radios and cellular phones,
and encrypted navigation systems.  According to the GAO,
President Clinton even approved the sale of a fully operational,
secure air traffic control system for the Chinese Air Force.

The failure of the NSA CLIPPER project is already a blot on the
secret agency based at Ft. Meade.  The possibility that Chinese
agents penetrated the NSA project would bring encryption to the
forefront of public debate and shine intense light on an inept
intelligence agency.

The seemingly crazy Clinton policy shows our President to be
crazy like a fox.  Clinton did what Pollard and Walker could not
do.  President Clinton sold national security secrets for cash
by writing his own legal waivers.  

Clinton's secret crypto policy served to line the pockets of
politicians and greedy corporate executives with red money.  The
Clinton export policy has significantly upgraded the nuclear
strategic and tactical firepower of the Chinese Army.  Clinton,
like Walker and Pollard, sold military code secrets for cash.

America knows more about AREA-51 and UFOs than Ft. Meade and
Webster Hubbell.  Bill Clinton and his China crypto-tale will
never be declassified for the American people.  The Clinton
scandal cover-up is backed by the NSA library of greatest
intercepts against Republicans.

================================================================

Information on CLIPPER, Ron Brown and Vince Foster - 

http://www.softwar.net/clip.html

================================================================
1 if by land, 2 if by sea.  Paul Revere - encryption 1775
Charles R. Smith
SOFTWAR         http://www.softwar.net      softwar@softwar.net
Pcyphered SIGNATURE:
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3CAC50EF4BFE2CF287C9843E6E4676B2D9D710EB301CB0E05B5F52B2D1448A04
90B9E2F4C67594DF
===============================================================
SOFTWAR EMAIL NEWSLETTER                            11/08/1998
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 06:33:25 +0800
To: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Subject: Re: How to solve the tax problem w/o anarchy or force (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199811092156.NAA13957@netcom13.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <199811092210.OAA15146@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




mail fwder seemed to have messed up my msg line here is a repost:




Jim: the govt is the way it is because the sheeple of this
country have let it get out of control for many decades.
the idea that "someone else handles that stuff" has infected
our consciousness. govt is something WE handle if we want
a good one. if you want something done right, do it yourself.

cpunks actually contribute to this problem with their nihilistic
philosophy in general. the msg is that it is a waste of time
to engage in group activity or political discourse or lobbying
against the govt or organization or *whatever*... it's actually
just a variant on the sheeple passivity. sheeple are like, "that's
not my job". cpunks are like, "it is a waste of time and energy
to do that job". what's the difference in the end??

the govt can be turned around very, very quickly if the public
stops sucking down sixpacks and being hypnotized by meaningless
dribble of sporting events and sitcoms that parade endlessly
across their nanosecond attention span. maybe they might read
even more than a comic book or pornographic magazine some day.
the political class *intentionally* created this bread and
circus atmosphere and are hiding behind the scenes as we
speak. no dorothy do not look at the man behind the curtain.

some new books are encouraging signs. "secrecy" by moynihan. there
is a new book on the "third party" or something like that which
proposes a new political party, and is selling very well on
amazon. a new book by gerry spence lawyer talks about how the
u.s. population is enslaved. the material is there for those
who seek it. "when the student is ready the teacher will appear"




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 07:22:56 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone (fwd)
Message-ID: <5F152E6E8E6FD21195DF00104B2425AD02B269@yarrowbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Jim Choate wrote:
> What happens when you have somebody on a fixed or small income. 
> Is your position that the paultry sum they can raise will be 
> taken seriously in regards compensating either the insurance 
> company or the fire dept.?

What if they are on a fixed or small income and need food? Medical care?
Etc. Should be make food retail and medical services both tax-supported
government-mandated monopolies to accommodate those people who do not
produce enough that they need a free lunch provided by someone more
productive?

It is the same argument used to continue our massive failure of a public
educational system. 

There is no valid reason to intertwine "welfare" with the service, and there
are many reasons not to -- e.g. it treats items as commodity services that
should not be (esp. education), it creates false "rights" (e.g. right to
education), it creates a coercive monopoly immune to market competition, and
since people don't have to *evaluate* the service for spending decisions,
they tend to *value* it less if at all.

With welfare completely divorced from services, you can get a clear sight of
the real cost (negative value) of the socialistic support system, and also
of the productive output (positive value) of the service produced and those
willing and able to consume it.

> > willing to pay the local fire department a fee to stand 
> > ready to come and put out fires for me.
> 
> You do it already, it's called taxes.

No, he said *willing*.

> No, without taxes funding a civic police department with 

If you claim that a service won't exist without public tax funding, then you
are essentially claiming that people do not value that service enough to
privately pay for it. So we should instead force them to pay for it?

> connections to other police agencies around the country 
> you're hope of finding the perp is nil.

And these connections won't exist if they are private entities?

Perhaps they will have less chance if the agencies are bound to the same
limitations as individuals in regards to privacy and liberty, but that is a
good thing.

> Oh, yeah. You and a couple of your beer buddies have like a 
> real hope in hell of matching the capabilities of a real 
> police homicide or rape investigation. Get fucking real.

But that is not to say a private organization would not have matching
capabilities. You cannot look at current PI's for the same reason as you
cannot look at private education as what would exist in absence of the
publicly mandated one. Lack of suitable competition is due to
government-created monopolistic conditions.

	Matt




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 05:56:41 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 1:09 PM -0500 11/8/98, Jim Choate wrote:
>Just face it. It isn't the threat of violence that pisses you off. It's that
>you have social responsibilities to those around you. Taxes represent a
>responsibility that you don't want and to hell with the consequences.

	No, it's that facists & socialists like yourself think we should be
happy letting you decide what our social responsibilities are.

	I am perfectly willing to pay for a police force. A police force
that arrests ALLEGED rapists, treats them like human beings until found
guilty and then deals with them as the law indicates. I am NOT willing to
pay for a police force that spends most of it's time (well, aside from
eating doughnuts, drinking coffee and collecting bribes) chasing after
teenagers with illegal chemicals. I am not willing to pay for a police
force that extorts money from these same teenagers. I am not willing to pay
money for a police force that thinks it needs to arrest people for
"loitering", "Mob Action", when it's defined as more than 4 people standing
together in a public place, and ESPECIALLY when EVERY TIME THEY ARREST
SOMEONE, IT'S THROWN OUT OF COURT.

	I am willing to pay for the streets I use. I am not willing to pay
the same fees to ride my bicycle (my current primary form of
transportation) as you do to drive your 2 ton SUV.

	I am willing to pay for fire protection. I am not willing to pay
for "universal health care", "welfare", and other such nonsense.

	In other words Jim, Fuck You. I, and I'd bet most people here,
including Mr. May, are perfectly willing, and hell even eager to pay their
share, to assume their social responcibility, they just get very, very
angry at having to pay OTHER peoples social responcibility, and get very,
very angry at having to pay for other shit (Senate Luncheons and Swimming
Pools, the Militaries greatly inflated budget, all the waste that is todays
federal government).

	They get even angrier when some putz like you comes along and tries
to tell them what their social responcibility is.

>> anyone else from telling it to fuck off?  Such a state cannot govern
>> those who do not wish to be governed, and so would not be a government.
>
>No state can govern those who don't wish to be governed, violence or no.

	Yes, but a state can kill those who don't wish to be governed. Can
and does routinely.

>[I've deleted a great gob of this since it's the same just rehashed in
>different sentences.]

	But did you bother to read them this time?
--
"To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a
jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a
gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather naďve, and certainly
unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust"
http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html

Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro@playboy.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Burnes - Denver 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 07:05:47 +0800
To: Petro 
Subject: black markets and color of law (was privacy fetish)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Mon, 9 Nov 1998, Petro wrote:

> 
> 	If you go back 10 years, and if "this country" was the soviet
> union, a tomato purchased from the wrong person could get you in trouble.
> 
> 	Entirely HOW the item was sold.
> 
> 	This is true in this coutry. Licquor is legal if purchased thru the
> approved store.
> 
> 	Try selling the same thing out of the back of your truck.
> 
> 	It is the product, or how the product is sold.
> 

Why is this so hard to fathom.  Black markets are simply markets
that are not approved of by the reigning force monopoly.

That could also be read as illegal, however, there are many
goods in the united states that are only illegal by color
of law, not in actual fact.

Of course the fact that the regulations are only under color
of law won't stop you from spending time in the cooler if you're
caught.

Most of these laws have to do with assigning law making to
bureacrats.

Are there any legal historians out there that have researched
the nature of bureaucracies like the FDA, DEA and BATF and the
lattitude that congress has given them in declaring various
good illegal?  How much power could congress hand over to
a department before the law giving them the power could
be declared unconstitutional?

For example, a constitutional amendment was necessary to
make alcohol illegal.  Why was this necessary?  Why
was it not necessary to do the same for every other
substance?  And if not for every other substance, then
for substances in general?

"Congress shall have the power to declare intrastate trade in
various products illegal."

It would be very simple.  It would be *the* prohibition act.
It would cover everything from encryption, to newpapers,
to alcohol and other drugs.

What is the basis for bureaucratic power and has it ever
been formally challenged in the supreme court?

My guess is that this power has not been seriously challenged
since Roosevelt stacked the Supreme Court and they decided
that the the welfare clause was a broad grant of power to
the federal government.

If I remember correctly, a closely related decision by
the Supreme stated that the commerce clause did not allow
the banning of weapons from "school zones" because even
though having weapons in school zones might effect commerce
it would effect to such a small degree that the commerce clause 
didn't reach that far.  The supreme court said they didn't know
how far it did reach.

It would be interesting to push the supreme to rule on the
welfare clause.  Could it reach far enough to ban nicotine?
Could it reach far enough to grab the fatty mc'ds hamburger
out of your hand?  Could it tell you what sports are
too dangerous?  What about skiing?  Car driving?  Parachuting?
Scuba diving?

I'm beginning to look forward to Y2K.

jim





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 08:30:48 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: RE: NSA Threatens To "OUT" Republicans Over Hubbell Investigation
Message-ID: <5F152E6E8E6FD21195DF00104B2425AD02B26A@yarrowbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Uh, what in the hell is "advanced, nuclear hardened, encryption technology"
?

	Matt




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Blanc" 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 08:42:05 +0800
To: "'Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer'" 
Subject: RE: How to solve the tax problem w/o anarchy or force (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <000b01be0c0f$19720c60$9d2580d0@ibm>
Message-ID: <000301be0c3f$74141a20$618195cf@blanc>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



You know, guys, it doesn't matter what sort of tax system is set up, if it
doesn't begin with one very fundamentally, essential, crucial, important point:
respect for the sovereignty of the individual.   This means respect for their
individual agreement, their informed consent, to any arrangement to be taken up
by them.

If, at any point in time - either before, during, or after a plan for obtaining
moneys from citizen-units is instigated - it loses sight of the purpose for
setting up the whole thing, then it's worthless anyway.  If it doesn't support
the highest ideal of humanity - unit by unit, individual by individual, human
beings qua their separate existence  - then it is not serving their purposes,
but only the purpose of those who identify themselves as the State: employees of
the State, leaders of the State, keepers of the State, goalies of the State,
wards of the State, etc.

If "members" are not extended the courtesy due to strangers, where one would
normally inquire - "would you like to join us?" or "would you like to combine
efforts with us in this endeavor to do ourselves a good" or "would you agree to
support this organization in this manner?"; if instead their existence is taken
for granted and their efforts treated as minor elements in the larger scheme of
more important things, if their separate opinions are rolled up into a combined
average, then what does it matter the benefits?   What does it matter, the
details?

If there is no basic comprehension of respect, no display of respect, no
provision in their Codes (legal codes, tax codes, etc.) for the methods of
respectfulness -  then where is the goodness in the rest of it, once you've lost
your place in your hierarchy of values?   People will then be operating in an
mindless atmosphere of unconsciousness, an atmosphere lacking an appreciation
for oneself as a unique creature, self-possessed and having their own reasons
and purpose for living.   Gradually they will lose the consciousness of
themselves as being something other than a "member" of a collective, an identity
not dependent upon recognition from the State, upon sanction from The Crowd for
permission to move based on the independent exercise of judgement- be it to move
about freely, or consume the  chemicals of the Universe, or think unofficial
thoughts, whatever.

They could become like the "bird in a guilded cage" - having all the benefits of
personal comfort, but without the ability or permission to pursue goals beyond
what is tolerated within the boundaries of the Group Consciousness (can you say
B-o-r-g), so that they may have more and more of the basic physical
requirements, but less and less of themselves - of their own authority, of their
own self-esteem, an esteem not pre-measured or pre-determined by the PC police,
that constant reference in the back of their mind reminding them of the limits
of their approved parameters.

Nothing - no plan, no organization, no purpose, no method, no clever, cheaper,
faster, more practical scheme - is worth supporting, if it degrades the concept,
the idea, the reality, of respect for the boundaries of our separate existence.
If it denies the recognition of self-ownership, if it ignores it, if it fails to
account for it in word or deal with it in action, then eventually it will
transgress these boundaries with impunity and an air of overbearing
self-righteousness, and you will lose what is most important of all.    You
could "gain the world" (of tax-extorted benefits), but lose your Self.    (of
course some people don't propose to have one, and so wouldn't miss it or
complain over its absence)


   ..
Blanc




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 08:41:36 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Grounding (last slice of spam?)
Message-ID: <364786A4.3CC1@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Mixmaster-san,

Sorry for prolonging the agony - I was hoping, in vain, for an admission
of guilt.

>
> The fundamental misconception that started this whole sad comedy
> of Doltish errors was Jim Dolt's belief that a Faraday cage has 
> to be grounded in order to suppress electromagnetic radiation.
>
Diagnosis:
Lion taming is contraindicated, a career of public service is
recommended.

And this...
> Now the electrons repel each other and therefor move in a
> circular motion with the spark gap as the center.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
takes me on a trip with Mr. Peabody and Sherman to the place where the
Huskies go...

Was my question about cycling the keys for a block cipher a *useless*
one or did the bit about horses offend? Horses are OK, sort of. In their
own way. On someone else's nickel.

Mike

Snowcone, anyone?




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Blanc" 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 09:17:36 +0800
To: "'Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer'" 
Subject: RE: How to solve the tax problem w/o anarchy or force (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199811092210.OAA15146@netcom13.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <000401be0c44$50a73f40$618195cf@blanc>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>From Vlad Ze Prophet:

:sheeple are like, "that's
: not my job". cpunks are like, "it is a waste of time and energy
: to do that job". what's the difference in the end??
:
: the govt can be turned around very, very quickly if the public
: stops sucking down sixpacks and being hypnotized by meaningless
: dribble of sporting events and sitcoms that parade endlessly
: across their nanosecond attention span.  [. . .]
........................................................


Sheeple are like, "that's not my job".
and cpunks are like, "YOU're not my job".

And to the govmt-as-is cpunks are like, "get off my space and out of my face".

And if I, non-exemplary Citizen of the Galaxy, choose to sit around guzzling
down sixpacks, listening to the dribble of sporting events and sitcoms (can you
see it!),  and you personally don't like it, I would say " I'M like, so not your
job".

I would like to know what exactly you've done for me lately, Vladimeer, for to
turn the government around.


   ..
Blanc - like, sitting around hypnotized, urp, waiting for visionary inspiration.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 07:58:40 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Advertising Creepiness
In-Reply-To: <199811091403.GAA27556@smtp.well.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 12:50 PM -0500 11/9/98, Tim May wrote:
>I'm glad I'm not a lawyer.

	Why, so you don't have to shoot yourself?
--
"To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a
jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a
gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather naďve, and certainly
unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust"
http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html

Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro@playboy.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 09:58:20 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: RE: How to solve the tax problem w/o anarchy or force (fwd)
Message-ID: <5F152E6E8E6FD21195DF00104B2425AD02B275@yarrowbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote:

> cpunks actually contribute to this problem with their nihilistic
> philosophy in general. the msg is that it is a waste of time
> to engage in group activity or political discourse or lobbying
> against the govt or organization or *whatever*... it's actually
> just a variant on the sheeple passivity.


"If you think of yourselves as helpless and ineffectual, it is 
certain that you will create a despotic government to be your 
master. The wise despot, therefore, maintains among his subjects 
a popular sense that they are helpless and ineffectual." 
                          --Frank Herbert, The Dosadi Experiment 


I don't think many cpunks (and other freedom loving people) are necessarily
nihilistic so much as they have come to the conclusion that to ignore and/or
subvert government has higher probability of success than trying to reform
it -- much to the demise of the Libertarian Party. The whole cryptography
and geodesic communications being the bane of the nation-state theme tends
to support this idea.

	Matt




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 10:14:54 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re:  IP: NSA Threatens To "OUT" Republicans Over Hubbell Investigation
Message-ID: <3647983F.6EBE@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



OOH:
Oh, I suppose so. Part of the Yet Another Conspiracy Conspiracy Theory.

OTOH:
1) The people who run NSA are powerful people in their own right. I
would be surprised if they could be easily made into a simple political
tool

2) If there is ONE country in the world that the US would like to set up
for another "Crypto-AG", another "Softwar"( ok early computer spy story
I read long ago ), which country might that be? And why might NSA not
want media attention? Could it be that someone spoke before thinking?
Ready, fire, aim. That's why I don't go into the woods during deer
season.

It would be damn nifty to be able to snoop ( and override ) the target
country's police and military communications networks and air traffic
systems wouldn't it? Now they're wise before we've got'em mainlining our
trash.

Mike

Newt Gingrich - There are some good people in the Republican party. Newt
is not one of them. Good riddance to bad rubbish. 

********
The seemingly crazy Clinton policy shows our President to be
crazy like a fox.  Clinton did what Pollard and Walker could not
do.  President Clinton sold national security secrets for cash
by writing his own legal waivers.  

Clinton's secret crypto policy served to line the pockets of
politicians and greedy corporate executives with red money.  The
Clinton export policy has significantly upgraded the nuclear
strategic and tactical firepower of the Chinese Army.  Clinton,
like Walker and Pollard, sold military code secrets for cash.

America knows more about AREA-51 and UFOs than Ft. Meade and
Webster Hubbell.  Bill Clinton and his China crypto-tale will
never be declassified for the American people.  The Clinton
scandal cover-up is backed by the NSA library of greatest
intercepts against Republicans.
*********




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 10:19:25 +0800
To: Adam Back 
Subject: Re: How to solve the tax problem w/o anarchy or force
In-Reply-To: <199811092311.XAA06732@server.eternity.org>
Message-ID: <199811100157.RAA05844@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



the distinction between govt and business is sometimes an
arbitrary one. for example govt agencies typically contract
with private companies to perform govt services. a massive
example of this is the defense industry. what I would tend
to propose is a system where this is augmented and finetuned
to the point the govt become a very efficient sorting mechanism
for channeling money to businesses that are the most efficient.
a very interesting combination of the ideas of free market and
govt service.

AB, I disagree that people would opt out of virtually all govt
services. bzzzzzzzt. think of things like trash collection etc.
I do believe the vast majority of things the govt does would
tend to stay there even if people had a choice.

the big libertarian question is, as you raise it: should people
have to pay for things they don't want. well consider things like
roads, police or fire protection, or the court system. 
what if you don't pay, but then dial
911 anyway? or you dial 911 and they ask for your credit card
first?    it really does seem to me like there is a legitimate
role for a certain amount of money to be collected for govt
service. imho it is far, far less than whatis being collected
today. if taxes were 5-10% people wouldn't give as much a damn
about the govt and how it worked. it's because taxes are so high
that people are screeching more. screeching but not acting, as
usual.

libertarians tend to be awfully realistic some times. who pays for
roads when everyone uses them? but I'm definitely into the basic
libertarian ideas.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Harvey Rook (Exchange)" 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 10:29:32 +0800
To: "'Matthew James Gering'" 
Subject: RE: NSA Threatens To "OUT" Republicans Over Hubbell Investigation
Message-ID: <2FBF98FC7852CF11912A0000000000010D19AD5F@DINO>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



An advanced, nuclear hardened encryption device, is an encryption device
that will still work after a nuke has gone off in the vicinity. Nuclear
bombs emit EMP's which destroy sensitive electronics.

Harv.

> -----Original Message-----
> Uh, what in the hell is "advanced, nuclear hardened, 
> encryption technology"
> ?
> 
> 	Matt
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 10:44:40 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Advanced Nuclear-Hardened Encryption Technology
Message-ID: <3647A470.17C7@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> Uh, what in the hell is "advanced, nuclear hardened, encryption
> technology"?

advanced(1) - we fucked up so we have to classify it so nobody but us
boobs will know what boobs we are

advanced(2) - last year's obsolete model in a new suit to fit this
year's corruption conspiracy

advanced(3) - we wish we had this but we're going to hint that we do
anyway to keep'em guessing

nuclear-hardened(1) - bikini glass ( not applicable )

nuclear-hardened(2) - a pencil

encryption technology - a copy of Gideon's and some stationary from the
Beijing Hilton




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Blanc" 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 10:50:08 +0800
To: 
Subject: RE: Advertising Creepiness
In-Reply-To: <199811090532.VAA01509@netcom13.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <000501be0c53$05cd1da0$618195cf@blanc>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



My comments on this:

Consider what advertising does:  it notifies potential users/consumers about
products and services which might be of use or pleasure to them.

Consider who a potential audience/market is:  people who might be interested in
availing themselves of these products/services if they but knew of their
existence.

Advertising  which is in keeping with the theme of the medium's message is not
quite so obnoxious:  for instance, when looking over a magazine like Cigar
Afficionado, which is about smoking and enjoying "the good life", I see ads for
cigar accessories and after-dinner liquors and places where a person can order a
glass of Corvoisier (sp) and light up in good company.  The ads are a logical
extension of what one expects to find in those pages, they allow the reader to
see where they might find and purchase the goods they are reading about and
indulge in their pleasure, and so are not a nuisance - in particular as their
presentation is aesthetically pleasing and in good taste.

I don't expect to find there advertisements from Nature's Pantry Health Foods or
an Orthopedic Hospital.   I can't think right now just what advertising would be
so pertinent to a news magazine in cyberspace, but I imagine the same principle
applies and would make ads less a mere distraction, less jarring to the
attention.

Marketers aren't logical, though, are they.  :

    : )


   ..
Blanc




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 03:08:28 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Fwd: [ISN] Wang touts spy-proof portable
Message-ID: <199811091833.TAA14454@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>X-Authentication-Warning: enigma.repsec.com: majordomo set sender to 
>owner-isn@repsec.com using -f
>Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 21:35:22 -0700 (MST)
>From: mea culpa 
>To: InfoSec News 
>Subject: [ISN] Wang touts spy-proof portable  
>X-NoSpam: Pursuant to US Code; Title 47; Chapter 5; Subchapter II; 227
>X-NoSpam: any and all nonsolicited commercial E-mail sent to this address
>X-NoSpam: is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500 US.
>X-NoSpam: E-mailing to this address denotes acceptance of these terms.
>X-Copyright: This e-mail copyright 1998 by jericho@dimensional.com
>Sender: owner-isn@repsec.com
>Reply-To: mea culpa 
>x-unsubscribe: echo "unsubscribe isn" | mail majordomo@repsec.com
>x-infosecnews: x-loop, procmail, etc
>
>
>Forwarded From: William Knowles 
>
>[News.com] (11.8.98) Wang Global has introduced a new portable computer,
>but it's not going to be winning any svelteness contests. 
> 
>Wang's Tempest Mobile Workstation, 3 inches thick and weighting 14.5
>pounds, is designed for government officials who need spy-proof computers
>that don't leak any telltale signals to electronic eavesdroppers. 
>
>The boxes are designed to meet the U.S. government's "Tempest"
>specification, which requires a computer to release extremely low amounts
>of electromagnetic emissions that could reveal what information the
>computer is processing. 
> 
>To protect against such emissions, Tempest-compliant machines must be
>encased in a lot of metal. Wang's portable looks like a thick laptop, said
>Wang spokeswoman Loretta Day, "but it's really so heavy, you can't really
>call it a laptop"  --all that metal would make it quite a burden for your
>lap. 
>
>As an added bonus, all that metal shields the computer from the
>electromagnetic pulse (EMP) generated by an exploding nuclear bomb that
>wreaks havoc with anything electronic. 
>
>When it's running, the machine can withstand a shock of five Gs--that's
>five times the acceleration caused by the Earth's gravity. But when it's
>switched off, it can take a 60-G shock. 
>
>Aside from being spy-proof, the new Wang system has some features that are
>familiar to ordinary buyers: a 15.1-inch LCD screen, a 233-MHz or 266-MHz
>Pentium II processor, a CD-ROM drive, and your choice of a 4GB, 6GB, or
>8GB removable hard disk. 
> 
>Wang also makes Tempest-compliant desktop computers, printers, routers,
>switches, and servers. It's one of a handful of such companies that supply
>the equipment to the government. Day said the chief customers are the
>State Department and intelligence agencies. Wang also makes computer
>equipment that complies with the Zone standard, similar to but less
>stringent than the Tempest standard. 
> 
>Pricing on the Wang portable wasn't available, but a competitor's Tempest
>portable computer with more lesser features was listed at one government
>Web site as costing more than $10,000. 
>
>
>-o-
>Subscribe: mail majordomo@repsec.com with "subscribe isn".
>Today's ISN Sponsor: Repent Security Incorporated [www.repsec.com]




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jan Dobrucki 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 03:27:33 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: SR2201 Supercomputer
Message-ID: <36473A7F.E5BDC1F5@qmail.pjwstk.waw.pl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



http://www.hitachi.co.jp/Prod/comp/hpc/eng/sr1.html
Is the link for more information, in english...
And I can't find a stupid computer and a printer in one place that
prints postscript so I still haven't been able to give in my
application for the account on this super computer...

JD




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jan Dobrucki 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 03:31:08 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: SR2201 Supercomputer
Message-ID: <36473AA1.4BB5F5B5@qmail.pjwstk.waw.pl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



http://www.hitachi.co.jp/Prod/comp/hpc/eng/sr1.html
Is the link for more information, in english...
And I can't find a stupid computer and a printer in one place that
prints postscript so I still haven't been able to give in my
application for the account on this super computer...

JD




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 10:24:31 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811100205.UAA14919@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 15:27:14 -0500
> From: Petro 
> Subject: Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone
>  (fwd)

> 	No, it's that facists & socialists like yourself think we should be
> happy letting you decide what our social responsibilities are.

Actualy, no. I'm perfectly happy to let you run around paying no taxes on
your income. The part you're not going to like is that I'm also not going to
let you reap one iota of benefit from those systems that are built and
developed by those of us who do pay taxes without a cost. And the cost will
be more than what the necessary taxes would have been. Hell, a free-market
capitalist shouldn't begrudge a tidy profit anyone under any situation.

> 	I am perfectly willing to pay for a police force. A police force
> that arrests ALLEGED rapists, treats them like human beings until found
> guilty and then deals with them as the law indicates. I am NOT willing to
> pay for a police force that spends most of it's time (well, aside from
> eating doughnuts, drinking coffee and collecting bribes) chasing after
> teenagers with illegal chemicals. I am not willing to pay for a police
> force that extorts money from these same teenagers. I am not willing to pay
> money for a police force that thinks it needs to arrest people for
> "loitering", "Mob Action", when it's defined as more than 4 people standing
> together in a public place, and ESPECIALLY when EVERY TIME THEY ARREST
> SOMEONE, IT'S THROWN OUT OF COURT.

Neither am I, unfortunately paying taxes or not won't resolve those sorts of
issues. What is required is public over-watch groups (as was recently
implimented in Austin, pisses the cops off big time) and a change in the way
we run our prisons. As to the way people are currently treated prior to
being found guilty at a trial is an abuse of power on the part of those
parties involved and clearly cruel and unusual punishment for an innocent
man.

Of course the *REAL* problem isn't the police. It's the people who make the
laws that the police are sworn to uphold and the judges with a social agenda
(that is not relevant to their job however much they may squeel like pigs).
That process *is* most certainly an ideal place to inject consideration and
respect for civil liberties and the purvue of government institutions.

> 	I am willing to pay for the streets I use. I am not willing to pay
> the same fees to ride my bicycle (my current primary form of
> transportation) as you do to drive your 2 ton SUV.

And you probably don't now (Does a Bronco II weigh 2 tons?). In actuality
you don't pay the gas taxes, the vehicle registration, license fees,
inspection, requisite insurance, etc. for your bicycle. I bet you don't even
have to license your bike to ride it on the city streets.
 
> 	I am willing to pay for fire protection. I am not willing to pay
> for "universal health care", "welfare", and other such nonsense.

The Constitution happens to mention that the federal government is detailed
with taking care of the general welfare. If you don't like that sort of stuff
then get a Constitutional amendment passed.

> 	In other words Jim, Fuck You. I, and I'd bet most people here,
> including Mr. May, are perfectly willing, and hell even eager to pay their
> share, to assume their social responcibility, they just get very, very
> angry at having to pay OTHER peoples social responcibility, and get very,

Unfortunately, that is what social responsibility is - giving with in
personal gain. That ultimately is what drives the bee up your butt.

> very angry at having to pay for other shit (Senate Luncheons and Swimming
> Pools, the Militaries greatly inflated budget, all the waste that is todays
> federal government).

Agreed. Throwing the Constitution away won't fix that and going to a
free-market monopolistic no-social-responsibility-at-all system such as
anarcho-capitalism is sure won't do it.

> 	Yes, but a state can kill those who don't wish to be governed. Can
> and does routinely.

Oh what hyperbole. You make it sound like the Nazi's have invaded. They
haven't. Yes, there are misguided people out there. Yes, there are just
plain old corrupt people out there. That won't change irrespective of the
political system (or lack of one). They don't just go out and pick people
off the street and shoot them you're over-reacting and succumbing to a
paranoid delusion of persecution.

Unless you kill somebody or move a few tons of coke your individual chances
of being killed by the state is less than being struck by lightening.

> 	But did you bother to read them this time?

Actualy I read it twice before I even decide if I'm going to reply.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 10:26:22 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: How to solve the tax problem w/o anarchy or force (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811100210.UAA15017@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: Matthew James Gering 
> Subject: RE: How to solve the tax problem w/o anarchy or force (fwd) 
> Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 17:25:45 -0800 

> I don't think many cpunks (and other freedom loving people) are necessarily
> nihilistic so much as they have come to the conclusion that to ignore and/or
> subvert government has higher probability of success than trying to reform
> it -- much to the demise of the Libertarian Party.

There is certainly little historical evidence to support such a thesis.

> The whole cryptography
> and geodesic communications being the bane of the nation-state theme tends
> to support this idea.

Cryptography is the bane of anyone who wants to listen in, it's not just
nation-states that get hit with it. As to geodesic communications, it's been
around a lot longer than the Internet and nation states are still here.



    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jan Dobrucki 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 03:55:37 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: SR2201 Supercomputer
Message-ID: <36473F38.5D764835@qmail.pjwstk.waw.pl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



http://www.hitachi.co.jp/Prod/comp/hpc/eng/sr1.html
Is the link for more information, in english...
And I can't find a stupid computer and a printer in one place that
prints postscript so I still haven't been able to give in my
application for the account on this super computer...

JD




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 10:39:41 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: charity at the point of a gun (Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone) (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811100216.UAA15081@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 00:27:50 GMT
> From: Adam Back 
> Subject: charity at the point of a gun (Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone)
>  (fwd)

> What people aren't willing to pay for shouldn't happen.  Period. If
> that means people starve well those complaining loudest had better
> dig deeper into their pockets.

This attitude is exactly why such system as anarchy won't ever work.

> _Then_ Jim's "No state can govern those
> who don't wish to be governed" starts to become true.

It's true as much now as it was at the height of the American or French
Revolution.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 10:39:43 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Grounding (last slice of spam?) (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811100220.UAA15144@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 16:19:48 -0800
> From: Michael Motyka 
> Subject: Re: Grounding (last slice of spam?)

> Sorry for prolonging the agony - I was hoping, in vain, for an admission
> of guilt.

Ok, your guilty.

> > Now the electrons repel each other and therefor move in a
> > circular motion with the spark gap as the center.
> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> takes me on a trip with Mr. Peabody and Sherman to the place where the
> Huskies go...

Perhaps, but it doesn't change the fact that a cloud of like-charged
particles expand in a cloud of equi-radius (which when looked at in side
view is circular).


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 10:53:59 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Forwarded mail...
Message-ID: <199811100232.UAA15314@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: 9 Nov 1998 20:40:03 -0000
> From: lcs Mixmaster Remailer 
> Subject: Re: Grounding (fwd)

> Listen to this.  Jim Dolt thinks that a spark gap inside a conductive sphere
> will cause charge to build up on the surface of the sphere!  The dunderhead
> has forgotten about conservation of charge!

No, I didn't. First off your assumption that the charge in the battery is
neutral is faulty. No such point was ever made. I also mentioned this fact
when I brought up the Van DeGraff.

> Gauss' law says that the charge on the outer surface of a closed
> conductive sphere will be equal to the net charge inside the sphere.

Actualy, no it doesn't. What Gauss' Law does state is that if there is a
neutral ball and there is a point charge within it there will be a contrary
but equal charge imposed on the inside surface of the globe. As a result of
charge conservation there must be a equal and opposite (hence negative)
charge that is equal to the point charge inside the globe on the outside of
the globe.

> The spark gap can't change the net charge inside the sphere, it can just
> move charge around.  Jim Dolt has conveniently forgotten about the net
> positive charge which will build up on the spark gap as it (supposedly)
> emits electrons.

And the anonymous person has forgotten that we never defined the mechanism
of how the battery worked. It might very well have started out with a
net-negative charge. I didn't invent the model, just simply worked within
it. I also, on two seperate occassions, mentioned that I was not going to
deal with the net charge that gets deposited on the globe because of the
complexity it adds to the model.

> His Doltish notion that electrons will hit the inside of the sphere
> and "tunnel through" to the outside is totally confused.  Suppose this
> happened.  We've removed negative charges from the interior of the sphere
> and put them on the outside, where they would give the sphere a negative
> charge.  Now, what is the net charge on the interior of the sphere?
> We started neutral and removed negatives, hence it's positive!  Gauss'
> law would imply that the sphere must have a positive charge.

No, Gauss Law says at all times the charge on the sphere must stay equal for
point charges. Since the spark gap is by defintion emitting electrons it
doesn't qualify as a point charge. I brought this up as well in reference to
the Van DeGraff. Gauss's Law does say that any excess charge on the inside
of the globe will propogate to the outside of the globe.

Now each of those free electrons IS a point charge. You follow Gauss's Law
through the same process and what do you get....a charge equal to the
electron on the outside of the surface.

> The whole idea is ludicrous.  No charge can spontaneously appear on
> the outside of an ideal closed conductive sphere.  This would be a
> violation of the law of conservation of charge.

No, it wouldn't. The charge inside the sphere is exactly canceled by the
charge induced on the inside of the sphere (+ + - = 0) by Gauss's Law. Now
since the sphere is neutral, and we've induced that positive charge there
must be a balancing negative charge. That charge rests on the other
(outside) surface of the sphere. All that's taken place is that the universe
has created a situation where you can't steal charge and hide it where it
can't be found.

That WOULD violate conservation of charge.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: lcs Mixmaster Remailer 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 05:20:38 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Grounding (fwd)
Message-ID: <19981109204003.20193.qmail@nym.alias.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Dolt writes:

> The spark gap generates sparks and that builds up free electrons in the
> space inside the sphere (whether it is gas filled or a vacuum is
> irrelevant). As that charge builds up it will be all of one type, electrons.
> Now the electrons repel each other and therefor move in a circular motion
> with the spark gap as the center. They strike the surface of the sphere and
> tunnel through to the outside surface where they reside. The amount of
> charge at any one point is related to the curvature of the surface at that
> point. Since a sphere is constant curvature the charge will be evenly
> distributed. It will continue to build up so long as you supply power to the
> spark gap. In an ideal world it will get bigger and bigger. In the real
> world at some point insulation breaks down and normal current flow takes
> place.

Listen to this.  Jim Dolt thinks that a spark gap inside a conductive sphere
will cause charge to build up on the surface of the sphere!  The dunderhead
has forgotten about conservation of charge!

Gauss' law says that the charge on the outer surface of a closed
conductive sphere will be equal to the net charge inside the sphere.
The spark gap can't change the net charge inside the sphere, it can just
move charge around.  Jim Dolt has conveniently forgotten about the net
positive charge which will build up on the spark gap as it (supposedly)
emits electrons.

His Doltish notion that electrons will hit the inside of the sphere
and "tunnel through" to the outside is totally confused.  Suppose this
happened.  We've removed negative charges from the interior of the sphere
and put them on the outside, where they would give the sphere a negative
charge.  Now, what is the net charge on the interior of the sphere?
We started neutral and removed negatives, hence it's positive!  Gauss'
law would imply that the sphere must have a positive charge.  But Jim
Dolt tried to give it a negative charge from all those electrons that
"tunneled through."

The whole idea is ludicrous.  No charge can spontaneously appear on
the outside of an ideal closed conductive sphere.  This would be a
violation of the law of conservation of charge.  By Gauss' law, the
charge on the outside is equal to the net charge on the inside.  If a
sphere, just sitting there in empty space, suddenly develops a charge,
then that means that the interior has manufactured charge out of nothing.
It is impossible.

The fundamental misconception that started this whole sad comedy of
Doltish errors was Jim Dolt's belief that a Faraday cage has to be
grounded in order to suppress electromagnetic radiation.  This has led us
to his revelation of his further misunderstandings of how charge behaves
inside a conductive surface, not to mention his numerous errors about
the mechanism by which a spark gap transmitter generates EM radiation.
(Hint: it has nothing to do with a cloud of electrons spreading out from
the spark gap!)

The fact is, Jim Choate knows nothing about this topic, and the same is
true for most subjects that he writes about.  He loves the attention
he gets, but if more people told him they knew how worthless his
contributions are, he just might go bother someone else.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 11:13:33 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811100252.UAA15446@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 13:23:20 -0500
> From: Petro 
> Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone
>  (fwd)

> 	Usualy !=3D Correctly.
> 
> 	Take tomatoes. Perfectly legal (AFAIK) everywhere, here in this
> country a 5 year old child can buy a tomato from a farmer with a stand on
> the side of the road.
> 
> 	If you go back 10 years, and if "this country" was the soviet
> union, a tomato purchased from the wrong person could get you in trouble.

So what are saying...that because any government ever happened to abuse its
citizens in a particular way is justification to do away with all
government?

This is a strawman.

> 	This is true in this coutry. Licquor is legal if purchased thru the
> approved store.
> 
> 	Try selling the same thing out of the back of your truck.
> 
> 	It is the product, or how the product is sold.

Well actualy it's whether it has a tax stamp whether you sell it out of a
storefront or a truckbed is irrelevent. Considering the number of people who
died in the late 1800's and early 1900's because of moonshine liquor from
contaminated stills that were unregulated (where were those fine upstanding
ethical considerate eco-anarchists then?) it's probably a good thing that
it's illegal to sell untaxed and therefore anonymous alcohol.

> 	So take ampthetimines (well, don't take them, but take the case of
> them), if I get them from Joe Random Drug Dealer, it's black Market, if I
> get them from Paul the Doctor, it's "white" market.

Not necessarily. The doctor has to have a medicaly supportable reason to
dispence those drugs. Otherwise it's just as black market as Joe's.

> 	In fact, if I get them from Paul the Doctor, and then sell them to
> someone else, I am selling them on the black market, even if I recieved
> them legally, so in this case, it isn't how the item was aquired, it's
> whether the _sale_, the *exchange* is legal.

So, we've already established this as a viable mechanism. Rehash old hash.

> 	I didn't think of theft when I wrote the above, and I don't usually

Didn't think of theft? Jesus H. Christ, you gotta be on Joe's drugs. The
vast majority of material sold on *ANY* black market is stolen from its
rightful owner. It is *the* example of black market trading that most folks
think of first.

> 	I still maintain that as one moves closer to a completely free
> market, there is less and less of a black market, and to be the extrememe
> case of a free market, there would be the potential to trade in both human
> lives, and in stolen property.

Well, at least you're an honest eco-anarchist. And how do you propose to stop
this sort of behaviour (it's clear that there is a market whether the
economy is free-market or not) without some sort of 3rd party arbiter (call
it government or not is irrelevant to the point)?

> In a free market, the selling of stolen
> goods might not be a crime in and of itself, but the posession of those
> things could be,

How the hell do you sell something on the black market if you don't have
possession of it? And exactly who is going to prosecute anyone for
possession? Since we've done away with laws governing economics and trade
there isn't even a court to try the perps in if we did apprehend them
ourselves.

 and the aquireing would be, as well, the _hiring_ of an
> assassin might be legal, as long as no killing took place. When it does,
> you hang the assassin on murder, and the hirer on conspiracy, aiding and
> abetting or whatever, and stick them in the same cell.

Huh? Who is doing all this arresting and writing of laws, and building
jails, and staffing prisons, or hiring hangmen?

We're not in Kansas anymore toto....


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 11:10:20 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: How to solve the tax problem w/o anarchy or force (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811100254.UAA15502@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: "Blanc" 
> Subject: RE: How to solve the tax problem w/o anarchy or force (fwd)
> Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 16:16:15 -0800

> You know, guys, it doesn't matter what sort of tax system is set up, if it
> doesn't begin with one very fundamentally, essential, crucial, important point:
> respect for the sovereignty of the individual.   This means respect for their
> individual agreement, their informed consent, to any arrangement to be taken up
> by them.
> 
> If, at any point in time - either before, during, or after a plan for obtaining
> moneys from citizen-units is instigated - it loses sight of the purpose for
> setting up the whole thing, then it's worthless anyway.  If it doesn't support
> the highest ideal of humanity - unit by unit, individual by individual, human
> beings qua their separate existence  - then it is not serving their purposes,
> but only the purpose of those who identify themselves as the State: employees of
> the State, leaders of the State, keepers of the State, goalies of the State,
> wards of the State, etc.

Jesus, it's a miracle. Blanc and I actualy agree....I think I'm gonna faint.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 13:17:34 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: RE: NSA Threatens To "OUT" Republicans Over Hubbell Investigation
Message-ID: <5F152E6E8E6FD21195DF00104B2425AD02B277@yarrowbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Yes, I assumed as much. But it is electronic circuits that are EMP/nuclear
hardened, not the "encryption technology." We have a populace that doesn't
understand what cryptography is, such reckless statements don't help,
especially putting nuclear and encryption in the same sentence.

For as much as I hate Clinton, encryption is mathematics, period. National
security fearmongering to spite Clinton does not help the encryption
awareness/freedom campaign.

	Matt


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Harvey Rook (Exchange) [mailto:hrook@exchange.microsoft.com]
> 
> An advanced, nuclear hardened encryption device, is an 
> encryption device that will still work after a nuke has 
> gone off in the vicinity. Nuclear bombs emit EMP's which 
> destroy sensitive electronics.
> 
> Harv.
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > Uh, what in the hell is "advanced, nuclear hardened, 
> > encryption technology"




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 13:25:41 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: RE: How to solve the tax problem w/o anarchy or force (fwd)
Message-ID: <5F152E6E8E6FD21195DF00104B2425AD02B278@yarrowbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




> > nihilistic so much as they have come to the conclusion that 
> > to ignore and/or subvert government has higher probability 
> > of success than trying to reform it -- much to the demise 
> > of the Libertarian Party.
> 
> There is certainly little historical evidence to support such 
> a thesis.

My thesis that this is a common sentiment? Who the @#%$ is talking about
history, try looking around. No, I'm talking 1950's to present, and
particularly 1990's and the internet-libertarian culture. I think this
sentiment is historically unprecedented.

The thesis that to ignore the nation-state will see it's demise? Well we
really need a financial system that they don't control, which has been
promised with financial cryptography but has yet to arrive. I don't think
it's time to throw in the towel yet.

	Matt




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 11:36:05 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: How to make non-neutral charge batteries...
Message-ID: <199811100313.VAA15569@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



One way a person could generate a battery suitable for the spark gap
experiment to address the conservation of charge issues related to the
battery is to build a mechanism such as:


                2N e-          1N p+

                     |       |
                     |       |
       |-------------|       |--------------|
       |             |       |              |
       |             |       |              |
       |                                    |
       |                                    |
       |------0 0------------------0     0--|
                                    \
                                      \
           spark gap               switch

The two vertical plates above are not a capacitor. They simply represent
some mechanism to hold charge, Leyden Jars for example.

Now when the switch is closed 1 N of e- will combine with 1 N of p+ to form
a neutralization of charge. That will leave a net 1N of e- that will
represent a point charge of that value. That charge will be exposed at the
right contact of the spark gap above.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 11:44:21 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone(fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199811100205.UAA14919@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 9:05 PM -0500 11/9/98, Jim Choate wrote:
>Forwarded message:
>
>> Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 15:27:14 -0500
>> From: Petro 
>> Subject: Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone
>>  (fwd)
>
>> 	No, it's that facists & socialists like yourself think we should be
>> happy letting you decide what our social responsibilities are.
>
>Actualy, no. I'm perfectly happy to let you run around paying no taxes on
>your income. The part you're not going to like is that I'm also not going to
>let you reap one iota of benefit from those systems that are built and

	Like I said (it's that reading and comprehension thing, kinda like
my spelling thing), I don't mind paying fair costs, I do mind paying
extortion at the point of a gun.

>developed by those of us who do pay taxes without a cost. And the cost will
>be more than what the necessary taxes would have been. Hell, a free-market

	Prove it. Prove that in a competitive market certain goods and
services will be MORE expensive than in a Government-as-Supplier.

	How many Corporations you know buy $300 hammers, or $1000 toilet
seats?

>capitalist shouldn't begrudge a tidy profit anyone under any situation.

	I don't begrudge a profit where it's due. Bill Clinton isn't due.
Neither is Newt Gingrinch, or any other Feeding at the government trough
pig.

>> 	I am perfectly willing to pay for a police force. A police force
>> that arrests ALLEGED rapists, treats them like human beings until found
>> guilty and then deals with them as the law indicates. I am NOT willing to
>> pay for a police force that spends most of it's time (well, aside from
>> eating doughnuts, drinking coffee and collecting bribes) chasing after
>> teenagers with illegal chemicals. I am not willing to pay for a police
>> force that extorts money from these same teenagers. I am not willing to pay
>> money for a police force that thinks it needs to arrest people for
>> "loitering", "Mob Action", when it's defined as more than 4 people standing
>> together in a public place, and ESPECIALLY when EVERY TIME THEY ARREST
>> SOMEONE, IT'S THROWN OUT OF COURT.
>
>Neither am I, unfortunately paying taxes or not won't resolve those sorts of
>issues. What is required is public over-watch groups (as was recently
>implimented in Austin, pisses the cops off big time) and a change in the way
>we run our prisons. As to the way people are currently treated prior to
>being found guilty at a trial is an abuse of power on the part of those
>parties involved and clearly cruel and unusual punishment for an innocent
>man.

	So, they don't get fired (usually) they don't get more than censured.

>Of course the *REAL* problem isn't the police. It's the people who make the
>laws that the police are sworn to uphold and the judges with a social agenda

	No, the problem is the police. To quote (IIRC) Lydia Lunch:

	"Neo Nazis with night stick dicks, no brains but banging into yours
in the middle of the night looking for whatever don't fit in with their
ideologically unsound version of reality".

	Also known as "You wanna act like a fuck'n gang banger, I'm gonna
treat you like a fuck'n gang banger" to two teenage black males who (like
every other black male in the neighborhood) had learned to walk around the
corner when the cops drove by.

	The cops in the larger cities are so fucken dirty that a "citizens
oversight commision" will either be a politically packed joke, or wind up
changing members every couple months from attrition.

>That process *is* most certainly an ideal place to inject consideration and
>respect for civil liberties and the purvue of government institutions.

	Oh, and that has been working OH SO WELL thus far.

>
>> 	I am willing to pay for the streets I use. I am not willing to pay
>> the same fees to ride my bicycle (my current primary form of
>> transportation) as you do to drive your 2 ton SUV.
>
>And you probably don't now (Does a Bronco II weigh 2 tons?). In actuality
>you don't pay the gas taxes, the vehicle registration, license fees,
>inspection, requisite insurance, etc. for your bicycle. I bet you don't even
>have to license your bike to ride it on the city streets.

	No I don't. but check the numbers, there is a $6000 LESS collected
in road taxes (average) PER CAR for each car in america. That $6k comes out
of my pockets as well, and as a bicyclist I my share is MUCH less than that
of a Bronco. Not to mention that I don't pollute anywhere near as much, if
at all.

>> 	I am willing to pay for fire protection. I am not willing to pay
>> for "universal health care", "welfare", and other such nonsense.
>
>The Constitution happens to mention that the federal government is detailed
>with taking care of the general welfare. If you don't like that sort of stuff
>then get a Constitutional amendment passed.

	If that is the interpretation, then the document is morally flawed.

>> 	In other words Jim, Fuck You. I, and I'd bet most people here,
>> including Mr. May, are perfectly willing, and hell even eager to pay their
>> share, to assume their social responcibility, they just get very, very
>> angry at having to pay OTHER peoples social responcibility, and get very,
>
>Unfortunately, that is what social responsibility is - giving with in
>personal gain. That ultimately is what drives the bee up your butt.

	Yeah, having to support the lifestyle habits of others really DOES
beef me. I pay *MORE* than my way, and I *WORK HARD FOR IT* (all jokes
aside). Others do NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO MY LABOR.

	That is slavery, pure and simple. No constitutional gobblygook can
change that.

>
>> very angry at having to pay for other shit (Senate Luncheons and Swimming
>> Pools, the Militaries greatly inflated budget, all the waste that is todays
>> federal government).
>Agreed. Throwing the Constitution away won't fix that and going to a
>free-market monopolistic no-social-responsibility-at-all system such as
>anarcho-capitalism is sure won't do it.

	Sure it will.

>> 	Yes, but a state can kill those who don't wish to be governed. Can
>> and does routinely.
>
>Oh what hyperbole. You make it sound like the Nazi's have invaded. They
>haven't. Yes, there are misguided people out there. Yes, there are just
>plain old corrupt people out there. That won't change irrespective of the
>political system (or lack of one). They don't just go out and pick people
>off the street and shoot them you're over-reacting and succumbing to a
>paranoid delusion of persecution.

	How many millions have died in the last 100 years IN wars started
by and for the advantage of the state?

	How many died at the hands of Stalin, Hitler. and other dictators?

	The state, whether here in the US, or in other countries tends to
treat the humans that comprise it with little concern for their health or
livelyhood, and the ugly truth is that the same characteristics that are
necessary to keep a government in line are the same ones that make a
government unnecessary.

	If you have citizens that are honest, principled, and willing to
assist those around them, you have no need for a "state".

	Without honesty and principles you have Slick Willy.

>Unless you kill somebody or move a few tons of coke your individual chances
>of being killed by the state is less than being struck by lightening.

	There are 1.7 million people struck by lightning every year?

	I am not going assume that our country is any better just because
it's subjects are my neighbors. No, we don't kill as many, but name one
country that has jailed more of it's subjects, and the truth is, we are
getting worse.
--
"To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a
jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a
gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather naďve, and certainly
unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust"
http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html

Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro@playboy.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 11:55:29 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: How to solve the tax problem w/o anarchy or force (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811100336.VAA15683@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: "X" 
> Subject: RE: How to solve the tax problem w/o anarchy or force (fwd)
> Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 11:31:00 -0700

> Sorry, everyone, for this crap coming up, but JIM CHOATE wants you all to
> see it...
> 
> Jim,
> 
> You keep reposting this to the cpunx list, and I keep trying to discuss it
> with you in private.

I have zero desire to discuss this in private. If you don't want to discuss
it here then we won't discuss it.

> Correct me if I'm wrong, but the gist of your system was a two-tiered
> payment schedule where Group A could be called TaxPayers and Group B could
> be called NON-Payers.  Right?
> 
> And basically, Group A would get all of the benefits that a fully paid
> membership would entail, right?  Secondly, Group B would "not pay taxes" and
> would NOT be entitled to any benefits save for on a pay-as-you-go type
> arrangement.  Right?
> 
> What USGov't services do you include in your proposal?

Each and every one of them, except the criminal courts. I would include the
state and local government as well.

Perhaps you could think of it as a discount card....;)

> (feel free to jump in with some more.)

You're doin' fine.

> U.S. Mail services

If you don't show them your tax receipt before Jan. 1 of each year they will
remove your address from their delivery list until you do so. If you don't
either pick it up there in person within 10 days, every 10 days it goes back.
The Constitution says they have to deliver your mail. It doesn't say they
have to drop it on your front step.

Personaly I think this would be a great position for those folks who have
learning disabilities but still need a job. The irritation factor alone would
be worth it...;)

> Common defense

Already covered that one.

> Air traffic controlling

When you buy your ticket from a commercial carrier and don't present a tax
receipt your ticket price goes WAY! up.

> roadways and interstates

Already covered them too.

> Food and Drug Administration approvals

When you buy food or drugs if you don't present your tax receipt then you
pay the full price for foods and drugs.

> Federally mandated minimum wage

I also covered this one already.

> automobile safety standards

See the one above.

> Is your tax progressive or regressive?

Depends on what *you* mean by progressive or regressive. Personaly I would
go for a flat tax rate but a scaled mechanism would be ok. It isn't the
particular scaling mechanism that I dislike about our current tax system.

> If I'm right so far (which I may or may not be) then we have to talk about
> your definition of "paying taxes."

Taking a percentage of your monetary income each period (say a year) and
sending it to an address. That address is the suitable tax agent who then
distributes the monies into the appropriate account according to law. The
suitable civic agencies can then draw funds according to law.

> Does a single woman raising five kids
> and paying a small mortgage making  $14,200 per year pay taxes?  No,
> unfortunately for her, she doesn't.  I guess that puts her smack into GROUP
> B!  Well, that's simple enough!

Not at all, simply because she is unfortunate enough not to have the income
necessary to participate without causing harm to herself and her family
(perhaps) is no reason to deny her those rights. I'd give her a receipt that
would look just like anybody elses. Now if she didn't want to apply for it
by sending in the paperwork that's her decision. From a government
perspective she is participating fully in the process, it isn't the amount
of money (as foreign as that may be to eco-anarchists and free-market
mavens) that is the issue but the willingness to participate. Nobody is
forcing her to do anything, it's all of her own volition.

> We'll deny her the creature comforts of the
> list above until she chips in her proportionate cost, right?  When that
> libertarian bitch tries to send mail, we'll charge her more!  WHen she gets
> on the freeway, we'll toll her!  When she buys a medicine for her snot-nosed
> urchin, we'll give her the stuff that ain't been FDA approved, right?
> RIGHT!  And, if ever we should need to attack another country (or defend
> ours, as you pointed out) SHE'LL happily volunteer to serve (as I remember
> your post) in order to protect her TAX-FREE STATUS.

No, that isn't right. As to participating in the military, no I didn't give
anyone a choice. I said *draft*, you didn't give up your citizenship when
you gave up your tax participation. Now if you want to give that up to then
we won't draft you but you'll be one broke puppy trying to pay all the
bills as a non-tax-participant and a non-citizen.

> As you said to me, she's probably just looking for someone to shoulder her
> part of the load, right?

I said to you?

> You said it would be easy to implement, right?  I don't see that it would be
> easy at all.

As hard as this may be to take, your ability to see it doesn't effect it's
viability.

> Once again, I apologize for the OFF TOPIC nature of this, but MR. COHATE
> (freudian slip, or merely coincidence?  you be the judge!) insisted on
> duking this out in public.

Um, actualy YOU responded to my post. I didn't start this with you.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Blanc" 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 14:09:29 +0800
To: "'Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer'" 
Subject: RE: How to solve the tax problem w/o anarchy or force (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199811100254.UAA15502@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <000901be0c6d$50fd51e0$618195cf@blanc>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>From Jim inChoate:

: Jesus, it's a miracle. Blanc and I actualy agree....I think
: I'm gonna faint.
...................................................


Eureka, success.
Keep it in mind.   Everything I ever said that you disagreed with relates to
that post.


   ..
Blanc




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 12:26:10 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811100403.WAA15755@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 21:13:57 -0500
> From: Petro 
> Subject: Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone
>  (fwd)

> 	Prove it. Prove that in a competitive market certain goods and
> services will be MORE expensive than in a Government-as-Supplier.

Ok. Let's use the example of fire stations and insurance companies that came
up earlier.

What do you suppose the impact on the bottem line will be by increasing the
amount of non-income-producing-services that such a situation would require?
Each insurance company would be responsible for many, many stations
scattered all over the country. This means some sort of centralized
mechanism to create policies and other procedures and their requisite costs.
Now, consider what that means to the payment each policy holder is going to
have to deal with. It's going to be large because it's going to have to take
up for parts of the company that don't bring in policy income but still
require service coverage.

Now by distributing this system out and assigning it to governments and
providing equitable service to all, no questions asked they're there we, we
get a system that is reasonable in cost and provides good responce.

And we don't have to pay the insurance company a bunch of money to do a job
they don't want to do (otherwise they'd be in the fire fighting business and
not the insurance business).

> 	How many Corporations you know buy $300 hammers, or $1000 toilet
> seats?

Lot's of them throw good money after bad. All businesses do. It's human
nature. I know of one company that got so carried away with spending for
little dribbles and drips that they ended up having to stop hiring new
employees that the company desperately needs. I used to work for one,
Compu-Add, that led to its final demise.

> >capitalist shouldn't begrudge a tidy profit anyone under any situation.
> 
> 	I don't begrudge a profit where it's due. Bill Clinton isn't due.
> Neither is Newt Gingrinch, or any other Feeding at the government trough
> pig.

Agreed. But the solution is term limits on Congress-critters and a
re-vamping of some critical laws.

> 	No, the problem is the police. To quote (IIRC) Lydia Lunch:
> 
> 	"Neo Nazis with night stick dicks, no brains but banging into yours
> in the middle of the night looking for whatever don't fit in with their
> ideologically unsound version of reality".

Well I happen to come from that sub-culture so I can speak from experience.
The majority of times I or my friends were hassled we were asking for it.

Knowing Lydia's reputation I'd suspect she'd agree.

> 	The cops in the larger cities are so fucken dirty that a "citizens
> oversight commision" will either be a politically packed joke, or wind up
> changing members every couple months from attrition.

If anything interesting happens here in Austin with the new over-sight group
I'll send a pointer.

> >That process *is* most certainly an ideal place to inject consideration and
> >respect for civil liberties and the purvue of government institutions.
> 
> 	Oh, and that has been working OH SO WELL thus far.

No, and that's my point.

> 	No I don't. but check the numbers, there is a $6000 LESS collected
> in road taxes (average) PER CAR for each car in america. That $6k comes out
> of my pockets as well,

How the hell do you figure that one? It may come out of YOUR state taxes but
it certainly doesn't come out of mine (I don't have state taxes). The funds
for road and such is collected solely through gasoline and auto related
sales taxes in Texas.

Perhaps you should fix your state government...

Now if you're talking about the federal taxes for roads, that has NOTHING to
do with your or my driving vehicles on those roads. It has to do with a
program implimented in the early 20th century to create a good road net in
the US for military use. The taxes are justified in principle, if not in
amount, through commen defense.

> 	If that is the interpretation, then the document is morally flawed.

Interpeted?

  
We, the People of the United States, in order to form a more perfect Union, 
establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common 
defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to 
ourselves and our Posterity do ordain and establish this Constitution for the 
United States of America. 
 
> 	How many millions have died in the last 100 years IN wars started
> by and for the advantage of the state?

Most of the wars of this century were started either by people acting in
concert willingly (eg Nazi Germany) or pure accident (eg Prince Ferdinand
has already lived through one assissination attempt, a reasonable man would
have gone home).

> 	How many died at the hands of Stalin, Hitler. and other dictators?

A lot more than at the hand of honest people, which is my point as well.
These were people, not governments. The citizens willingness to participate
aided and abetted each and every one of them and weakens your use of them in
your defence.

> 	The state, whether here in the US, or in other countries tends to
> treat the humans that comprise it with little concern for their health or
> livelyhood,

Yep, I see lots of that every day. In one hand you complain about welfare
and then in the other claim that the state is uncaring. Can you please make
up your mind?

> 	If you have citizens that are honest, principled, and willing to
> assist those around them, you have no need for a "state".

Yeah, and if frogs has wings they wouldn't bump their butt when they jumped.

If your process relies on this it's doomed from the get go. This ain't
Vulcan.

> 	Without honesty and principles you have Slick Willy.

And Bubba next door as well as that face that stares out at you every
morning.

> 	There are 1.7 million people struck by lightning every year?

There aren't 1.7M poeple killed in the US by the LEA's. That would be about
1-in-150. There are several hundred people killed by lightening each year in
the US. The number of people killed in activity complicent with LEA's is
probably not a great deal (at most an order of magnitude) over that.

> it's subjects are my neighbors. No, we don't kill as many, but name one
> country that has jailed more of it's subjects, and the truth is, we are
> getting worse.

Agreed, one of the reasons I support this mailing list and my local
activities.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 12:43:21 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: How to solve the tax problem w/o anarchy or force (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811100426.WAA15835@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Subject: Re: How to solve the tax problem w/o anarchy or force (fwd) 
> Date: Mon, 09 Nov 98 14:10:11 -0800
> From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 

> Jim: the govt is the way it is because the sheeple of this
> country have let it get out of control for many decades.
> the idea that "someone else handles that stuff" has infected
> our consciousness. govt is something WE handle if we want
> a good one. if you want something done right, do it yourself.

I agree in principle. I also believe though that the people who are taking
advantage of the peoples character (it's mentioned in the Declaration of
Indipendance) do so in a pre-meditated way. The people may bear some blame
but they're not doing it out of malice and malpheasance.

> cpunks actually contribute to this problem with their nihilistic
> philosophy in general. the msg is that it is a waste of time
> to engage in group activity or political discourse or lobbying
> against the govt or organization or *whatever*... it's actually
> just a variant on the sheeple passivity. sheeple are like, "that's
> not my job". cpunks are like, "it is a waste of time and energy
> to do that job". what's the difference in the end??

It's like those punk kids dressed in leather, tatoos, and pierced body parts
yammering about being different, yet they all look the same.

> the govt can be turned around very, very quickly if the public
> stops sucking down sixpacks and being hypnotized by meaningless
> dribble of sporting events and sitcoms that parade endlessly
> across their nanosecond attention span. maybe they might read
> even more than a comic book or pornographic magazine some day.
> the political class *intentionally* created this bread and
> circus atmosphere and are hiding behind the scenes as we
> speak. no dorothy do not look at the man behind the curtain.

I agree. Though I don't believe it necessarily requires the majority to do
it. If it does then we may be doomed before we even start. As long as the
government recognizes in any shape, form, or fashion that majority rule is
limited by individual rights there is a chance that a small group dedicated
and forthright can overcome.

> who seek it. "when the student is ready the teacher will appear"

God, ain't that the truth. I'm drowning in the damn books trying to keep up
with just a couple of my personal interests.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 08:31:04 +0800
To: declan@well.com
Subject: fuck copyright (Re: Advertising Creepiness)
In-Reply-To: <199811090115.RAA23804@smtp.well.com>
Message-ID: <199811092238.WAA06689@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Declan McCullagh writes:
> Whether you love or hate current copyright laws, it's a stretch to argue
> that it's legal to republish (by forwarding) articles in full.

Who cares if it's legal or not.

Copyright only "works" to the extent of readers good-will
(beggarware/shareware approach "please don't copy") and to the extent
that thugs from your local force monopoly can enforce it at gun-point.

I think the conclusion of crypto-anarchy is that copyright seems
unlikely to survive as a schelling point for making money from
publications.

You can make money from information provision by charging extra for
up-to-date news, or by charging so little that the cost from the
original provider is so low that it's not worth anyones time to
redistribute it, or by providing higher bandwidth connection to the
net than the mirrors, or by making do with click throughs from the
percentage of people who use the original rather than the cheaper
mirror.

Recursive auction market is a statement of reality if you make things
too expensive to the reader.  Overdoing the banners may be overdoing
it already, viz the banner stripping attempts.

The problem from wireds point of view is that they want their 1% click
through rate to derive their funds.  But that is their problem, and
for them to develop strategies for obtaining funds in this landscape.
To say it's "not legal to republish" is saying what? that you think
thugs with guns should enforce bit flow controls?  That wired plans to
make use of these force monopoly services?

I agree with Jim and Vladimir, I find it annoying to see URLs only,
and the teasers (5 lines telling cut off just where it may or may not
get interesting) are irritating too, as they tell you almost nothing.

I'd rather see nothing or someone summarise or post the whole thing,
or at least the interesting bits if it is highly relevant.  Mostly it
is just background clutter, most "news" isn't interesting at all.

Adam




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Quirk 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 15:09:20 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: an odd one at pub.anonymizer
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--mark--
-hedges- reviews http://pub.anonymizer.com/~lcchrist

The National Socialist Church of Christ espouses a turning away from the
old era figuring Hitler and the current Destruction of the Earth Part II
as the antichrist ending the cycle of Pisces. In the next phase of polar
angular orientation we will understand each other, the universe, and grow
into what we can be, because we figure out that otherwise we'll kill us
all. They demand spiritual revolution. Therefore they demand obscene
gestures and French Soltiers flipping dead cows with catapults at the
Brits looking for the Holy Grail. They are not centric on any ism but
expand their inclusiveness of what is sacred: the universe. Here I would
speak of Godel and the beauty of the semi-organised chaos / order /
balance / contrast forms inherent in the universe. In their site the
message remains that Destruction is a necessary force in the world from
time to time. That induces a feeling of condonence, not condolences.

The site plays some interesting games with a lot of very uplifting
philosophy for the understanding of the Holocaust and the genocide which
occurs today, but then, using Biblical reference and passive-voice claims
to the legitimacy of prophecy, it portrays Jesus risen again as Hitler:

"Christ had warned us that when He would return, He would come as a thief
in the night. Indeed, it had been prophesied that no man would know the
day or the hour of His return. Indeed, no one could ever have expected
that the Second Coming of Christ would mean His return to play the
completely opposite role that He had played before, coming not to save the
world, but to be its judge, baptizing not with water but rather with fire
and force!  The Second Coming of Christ came in such a completely
unexpected fashion that mankind remained completely unconscious of His
return and the fulfillment of Christian prophesy for more than fifty
years!" 

The speaker is anonymous and does not provide the contact address.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 08:40:06 +0800
To: tcmay@got.net
Subject: Re: Advertising Creepiness
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199811092247.WAA06698@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Tim May writes:
> I expect banner ads to die out soon enough. The technology is just too
> amenable to filters.
> 
> Adbusters for television have been talked about for years, but I know of no
> reliable adbusters...and an adbuster for t.v. doesn't save too much (since
> the 2-minute or whatever gap is still there). Taping and then
> fast-forwarding through ads is probably more convenient than an adbuster in
> realtime.

I think the idea of fast-forward for a TV would be a nice product.
Say that you had a high capacity video CD hooked up to TV.  Record it
all in a rolling backup of the weeks TV.  Then you can skip around,
forward over junk (ads, unintersting patches).

Probably you could combine with VCR+ or programme list to prune down
the bandwidth/capacity requirements by indicating disinterest and
interest, topic preferences etc.  

Possibly a setup like this is getting closer to feasible with storage
improvements.

> But for the Web, the arms race between adbusters and ad providers...seems
> likely to be lost for the ad makers.
> 
> Once some mainstream adbusters appear.
> 
> I wonder if advertisers will try to cite some right to enjoin ad
> busters from busting their ads? (Far-fetched, perhaps. But imagine
> if a particular version of this filtering occurrred...imagine the
> howls if Microsoft Explorer automatically filtered out the ads of
> companies it disliked or was competing against? Legal? Restraint of
> trade?)

A new feature for some enterprising cyberspace business to provide via
eternity servers perhaps -- mirrors of subscriber services, and banner
stripping.  Free, but account based subscriber services are annoying,
eg microsoft recently stuck about 5 mins worth of forms to fill in to
get at support for some thing you've already paid for, forcing you to
give them free user survey material.

I fill it in as Billzebub billg@microsoft.com etc., plus random
meaningless answers so that they get dud survery info, and so that his
secretary gets to filter the crufty ads.

Adam




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 08:33:57 +0800
To: declan@well.com
Subject: Re: IP: Crunch Time for Y2K Suppliers (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199811090310.TAA18290@smtp.well.com>
Message-ID: <199811092255.WAA06718@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Declan McCullagh writes:
> I'm not sure I like intellectual property laws in general -- like some
> libertarians, I might prefer a contract-based system. But for now I support
> civil laws to punish copyright infringements, and it seems to me it's
> difficult to argue that redistributing entire articles isn't one.

Ah good -- I thought you'd taken leave of your cypherpunkly senses for
a moment there!  (re my `fuck copyright' post).

> Besides, and more importantly, it's also rude.

That it might be, if it is a social says that it is polite to honor
peoples requests about bit flow.

But hey, if more and more people find ignoring the supposed social
convention convenient, then perhaps this social convention isn't as
widely adhered to as people making money off subsidized copyright
enforcement thugs might like to claim it is.  ie. IMO social
conventions on copyright are moving, and quite fast.  And copyright
has a hidden cost which we are all paying for.

Adam




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 08:38:14 +0800
To: vznuri@netcom.com
Subject: Re: How to solve the tax problem w/o anarchy or force
In-Reply-To: <199811090528.VAA01234@netcom13.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <199811092311.XAA06732@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Vladimir writes:
> what we really need is a government which can personalize its
> services, and people pay for what they use. 

yes, agree.  In other words we need freedom for business to compete in
provision of all services currently monopolised by government.

> more and more this is becoming technically feasible. it will bring
> the potential of capitalistic competition and free markets to
> govt. how?  well services that no one uses will tend to whither, and
> the healthy ones will receive greater budgets.

But also you need multiple providers of services, otherwise your
freedom of choice is limited.

If you can opt out of literally any goverment service, I suspect
government revenues would nearly disappear.  Everything they "supply"
can be supplied more cheaply by business.  So what government remained
would have to compete on a fair basis with private industry.

> the big quandary is people who can't pay for what they use
> like social security. ultimately the question is how much
> money the state has the authority to collect for this kind of
> thing, and the political answer has varied every year, but it
> has gone up every year in the 20th century generally.

I think the state should have no authority to collect anything.
Charity at the point of a gun is not charity.  The state is an
extremely inefficient distributor of charitable funds anyway.

> the big problem imho is fraud/waste/corruption in govt though.  I
> think if a lot of it were eliminated we would be flabbergasted at
> how little a personal contribution it takes to take care of people
> who need it. bureaucracies are the most expensive thing on the
> planet. here's hoping that cyberspace will cut through the
> *ultimate* middleman: govt.

Amen to that.

Adam




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mark Hedges 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 15:36:49 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: RE: NSA Threatens To "OUT" Republicans Over Hubbell Investigation
In-Reply-To: <5F152E6E8E6FD21195DF00104B2425AD02B277@yarrowbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




On Mon, 9 Nov 1998, Matthew James Gering wrote:
>Yes, I assumed as much. But it is electronic circuits that are EMP/nuclear
>hardened, not the "encryption technology." We have a populace that doesn't
>understand what cryptography is, such reckless statements don't help,
>especially putting nuclear and encryption in the same sentence.

But what a fab marketing campaign, the nuclear-hardened bozz-bangle
mind-fuzzer, for those people who don't understand. But it keeps them
listening, in addition to being extremely informative for them which do.

How'd'ya make a nuclear-hardened circuit, Tim?

Mark





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 08:31:38 +0800
To: guy@panix.com
Subject: Guy, anti-copyright hacker (Re: Advertising Creepiness)
In-Reply-To: <199811091519.KAA01473@panix2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <199811092326.XAA06747@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Information Security  writes:
> Declan writes:
> >   Willfully redistributing copyrighted material in violation of fair
> >   use principles is, depending on the value, also a federal
> >   crime. Redistributing a $1 article to thousands of people would be
> >   a felony. (Note I don't endorse this law, but it's useful to know
> >   what the law is.)
> 
> I guess that qualifies as a request for more color.
> 
> In the local Panix Usenet groups, I've reposted quite a few whole articles,
> often from the IP list.
> 
> Finally, a couple people made a stink, and officially complained to Panix.
> 
> [snip panix owner backing down and not interfering with Guy's posts of 
>  whole supposedly copyrighted material]

Nice one Guy!

The zen approach, it reminds me of a tactic to do with USENET cancel
forgeries used by a recentish poster to this list who you made much
a-do about being a terminator of.  You are not my any chance a
cleverly disguised nym of his?

> So, I was allowed to continue posting whole articles.
> 
> That's what the lawyers advised.
> 
> Then, the Digital Copyright Massive Federal Interference Act...
> 
> >   Fair Use vs. Intellectual Property: The U.S. Congress
> >   passed the Digital Millenium Copyright Act, a bill designed to
> >   distinguish between fair use and protected intellectual property
> >   in cyberspace.
> >   
> >        
> 
> I chose the IP list as the next-level test case...

I'm curious ... how have you faired since the millenium copyright act
with panix?  Any results?  Or is this still on-going?

Keep up the good work!

Adam




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 13:52:16 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: How to solve the tax problem w/o anarchy or force (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811100532.XAA16043@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: Matthew James Gering 
> Subject: RE: How to solve the tax problem w/o anarchy or force (fwd)
> Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 21:10:33 -0800 

> > > nihilistic so much as they have come to the conclusion that 
> > > to ignore and/or subvert government has higher probability 
> > > of success than trying to reform it -- much to the demise 
> > > of the Libertarian Party.
> > 
> > There is certainly little historical evidence to support such 
> > a thesis.
> 
> My thesis that this is a common sentiment?

You can't both ignore and subvert. One is passive the other is active. Now
if your thesis holds that this is a commen sentiment then you're in big
trouble finding mass support (which is what your theory would require to be
valid). I would say the vast majority of people don't share your views.

> history, try looking around. No, I'm talking 1950's to present, and
> particularly 1990's and the internet-libertarian culture. I think this
> sentiment is historically unprecedented.

The technology is certainly unprecedented, I doubt there has been a single
new human emotion or perspective developed because of it; only new venues
for the same old human failings and foibles. Or by sentiment do you mean your
view of nihilism? If so I would suggest you study nihilism closer.

> The thesis that to ignore the nation-state will see it's demise?

Historicaly strategies reducable to a ostrich_with_its_head_in_the_sand have
not worked well in changing peoples minds nor motivating them to action, let
alone causing the demise of a nation state. This isn't surprising if you
consider the types of personalities that lead people.

> Well we
> really need a financial system that they don't control, which has been
> promised with financial cryptography but has yet to arrive. I don't think
> it's time to throw in the towel yet.

I'll disagree regarding free-market economies. As to throwing in the towel,
we agree there.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 08:38:29 +0800
To: Andrew.Loewenstern@wdr.com
Subject: Re: Digicash bankruptcy
In-Reply-To: <9811091614.AA00393@ch1d524iwk>
Message-ID: <199811092333.XAA06759@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Andrew Loewenstern  writes:
> Phill writes:
> >  The fact that Chaum didn't have the monopoly he appeared to
> >  imagine is probably why nobody was queuing up to pay his
> >  demands.
> 
> Name some other deployable payer anonymous electronic payment
> systems that are in competetion with DigiCash.

Stefan Brands patents?  Not sure if digicash would claim these
infringe the blind sig patents.

Ian Goldberg's HINDE/money changer with or without blinding -- in
general notion that you can obtain anonymity by anonymous exchange
from a trusted money changer, or with blinding from an untrusted money
changer.  As with remailers you can increase the strength of anonymity
by chaining through multiple money changers.

Or perhaps Doug Barne's proposal for a identity agnositic bank and
blinding clients distributed from jurisdictions where doesn't have
patents?  (The client is the software which does the blinding).

Pseudonymous approach to anonymity -- ecash accounts without an
TrueName indentity bound to them.

Others?  (Ryan you suggested 5 but didn't list them explicitly?)

Adam




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 14:09:29 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: fuck copyright (Re: Advertising Creepiness) (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811100539.XAA16120@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 22:38:21 GMT
> From: Adam Back 
> Subject: fuck copyright (Re: Advertising Creepiness)

> Who cares if it's legal or not.

Lot's of people.

> I think the conclusion of crypto-anarchy is that copyright seems
> unlikely to survive as a schelling point for making money from
> publications.

Then crypto-anarchy is in for a big surprise.

> You can make money from information provision by charging extra for
> up-to-date news, or by charging so little that the cost from the
> original provider is so low that it's not worth anyones time to
> redistribute it,

That's true now, why don't we see these effects...

> or by providing higher bandwidth connection to the
> net than the mirrors,

Then why have the mirrors? There is also the issue of end-user bandwidth
limitations and network delays that make this less than decisive.

 or by making do with click throughs from the
> percentage of people who use the original rather than the cheaper
> mirror.

So, raise your rates to license the mirror.

> To say it's "not legal to republish" is saying what? that you think

It's saying it's not right  for a 3rd party to derive profit or income
from that work without a percentage being channeled back to the original
author (at least for a limited time).


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 09:48:13 +0800
To: petro@playboy.com
Subject: charity at the point of a gun (Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone)(fwd)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199811100027.AAA07402@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Christopher Petro writes:
> 	In other words Jim, Fuck You. I, and I'd bet most people here,
> including Mr. May, are perfectly willing, and hell even eager to pay their
> share, to assume their social responcibility, they just get very, very
> angry at having to pay OTHER peoples social responcibility, and get very,
> very angry at having to pay for other shit (Senate Luncheons and Swimming
> Pools, the Militaries greatly inflated budget, all the waste that is todays
> federal government).

What is annoying is "charity" (social security) at the point of a gun.
Our "conscience" is being decided by government which is acting as a
broker for those lobby for their "need" and for your assets to be
stolen and redistributed to them.

What people aren't willing to pay for shouldn't happen.  Period.  If
that means people starve well those complaining loudest had better
dig deeper into their pockets.

Anything else is socialism tending to facism, as Hayek argues in The
Road to Serfdom.

> >No state can govern those who don't wish to be governed, violence or no.
> 
> 	Yes, but a state can kill those who don't wish to be governed. Can
> and does routinely.

That's what's so interesting about cyberspace, once the payment
systems get there -- government thugs can't beat up, murder, or
incarcerate anonymous nyms.  _Then_ Jim's "No state can govern those
who don't wish to be governed" starts to become true.

Adam




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Hohensee 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 14:30:52 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone(fwd)
In-Reply-To: <5F152E6E8E6FD21195DF00104B2425AD02B276@yarrowbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
Message-ID: <3647DBE6.7B94DBEB@nyu.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Choate [mailto:ravage@einstein.ssz.com]
> Sent: Sunday, November 08, 1998 7:22 PM
> To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com
> Subject: Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the
> Foregone (fwd)
> 
> Forwarded message:
> 
> > Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 21:59:18 -0500
> > From: Michael Hohensee 
> > Subject: Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone
> (fwd)
> 
> > Ah, but governments are just bunches of people.  The problem with
> > government (which is just an organization) is that problematic people
> > use them to cause problems for others.  That's why I'm against *having*
> > such organizations.  That's why I'm an anarcho-capitalist.
> 
> I'm still waiting for one of you guys to explain in detail how it works on a
> day to day basis...

It works much the same as it does today, except that there isn't a
parasitic state wasting resources on feeding a useless band of
politicians, or pointing guns at people who don't obey its whims.

> > It's about the same thing.  Of course, for it to do this, it must wield
> > sufficient power to exact that retribution, which, as I've been saying
> > over and over (as you've noticed) is the problem.
> 
> Well I'll tell you this. You don't have a hope in hell of getting
> anarcho-anything to work. People are not going to bust their butts simply to
> see it get yanked away by a bunch of unregulated monoploies.

Oh yeah, like they'd be much more willing to bust their butts simply to
see 50%+ of it yanked away by "regulated" (by someone else) monopolies.

You can't have malignant monopolies in an anarchy.  If any monopoly
behaved in such a manner, it would be opening itself up wide for
competition.  The only way malignant monopolies can survive is by the
use of political power (i.e. force) to keep down competitors or to force
patronage. 

And exactly how is your paragraph related to the one you quote above it?

> > But they can only enforce laws after they have been broken.  (assuming
> 
> No, they can refuse to pass laws that don't infringe the basic principles of
> the society. They can pass laws that take a conservative (not in the
> political sense but in the wary manner) approach. It takes a system that has
> sufficient check's and balances that no one group or even groups acting in
> concert can take over the sytem to their good above others. It further can
> operate on certain principles that govern the manner which the sytem
> interacts with individuals.

Ok, I'm going to tell this to you one more time, in simple words of no
more than three sylables.  I'll even put it in caps, so you can see it
easier:

LAWS DON'T GOVERN, PEOPLE DO.  

I keep pointing this out to you, and it keeps sliding in one eyeball and
out the other.  What's written on paper is *meaningless* if those in
power choose to abuse their positions.

> None of these can anarcho-anything touch upon. It assumes a priori that all
> of these social mechanisms are pointless and serve no purpose. That people
> will behave in a rational manner and that everyone is looking for equitable
> and peaceful solutions to their problems.

Anarcho-capitalists are very aware of social mechanisms.  In fact, you
may have noticed that they are what we rely upon.  What you've been
talking about, however, are *political* mechanisms.  There's a
difference.

> > that it's a "nice" state --some states'll kill you *before* you break
> > their laws).  They do not protect people, they simply punish people they
> > catch doing certain things.
> 
> So, nobody is saying there aren't governments that are worse than the US.
> What's your point (or is it just hyperbole)?

It's what you missed in the above paragraphs.  No government can prevent
something bad (i.e. the violation of individual rights) from happening. 
No government can keep you safe.  All any government can do is initiate
force after the fact, and this is *not* protection.

> > I agree, but I make no distinction between the government and the people
> > running it.
> 
> Ah, that is a fatal mistake for any political system or one who studies
> them.

And why would that be?  I don't see any of them words written on them
sheets of paper getting up and standing guard around *my* house.  I just
see the actions of the people who are allegedly enforcing them.  Their
behavior is not always correlated to what's written on their sheets of
paper.

> > The Constitution is a list of rules under which the
> > government is supposed to operate, and if it is violated, the government
> > no longer has any right to govern, and should by rights be shut down by
> > the governed.
> 
> No, those who break the law should be punished. Don't confuse the issue by
> saying simply because one man is bad and caused the system to fail that
> either all men or bad (which applies to you) 

I don't say that all men are bad.  I simply say that not all men are
good.  

Furthermore, I say that no man is good enough to rule another.  This
applies to you, me, and everyone else. 

> or all systems are broke (which
> also includes yours).

You're *almost* there.  It means that all systems of state-governance
are broke.  I propose the abolition of the state  -the lack of such a
broken system.

> A society is a group of people who act in concert under some sort of
> mechanims, the result is a nation or government. 

Wow, that's very nationalistic of you.  Nationalism wasn't always the
way people viewed the world, you know, and society existed then.

You keep saying that the state and society are somehow synonymous.  This
is simply not true  --unless you're saying that if it were not for the
existance of an organization which tells other people what to do, all
human interaction would be impossible.

> Governments have no rights,
> they're not people; another serious problem with your view. Governments have
> duties, responsibilities, and obligations. It's a job.

Heh, if you've been listening, you'd have noticed that I never said that
governments *have* rights -only that they assert that they have them.

There are no group rights, only individual rights.  Do you agree?  If
so, then how do you resolve the contradiction which develops when you
notice that members of the state apparently have the right to do things
that non-members cannot?  Specifically, the "right" to initiate force,
and the "right" to rule others? (both of which are of course non-rights,
in my view)

> > The central problem is that if the government was weak enough that it
> > *could* be shut down immediately upon its first violation of its
> > charter, it would be so weak that it could not offer a plausible
> > guarantee of retribution for Constitutionally approved crimes.
> 
> You punish people not governments. You change the laws governments act under
> when the laws are found to be bad. If the act is offensive enough you forbid
> the government from even considering the issue (as in the 1st Amendment).

*Who* punishes the punishers?  You fool, who do you think is going to
tell the highest enforcer (who supposedly wields sufficient power to
enforce anything) what to do?

> > Yup, but you cannot assume that the arbiters of the rules will always
> > have respect for the rules.
> 
> It depends on how you write the rules and the sorts of systems you create
> for review of such situations.

*sigh* I'll say it *again*.  If the rules are going to be ignored, it
doesn't _MATTER_ how they're written.

> > Rules have no power on their own --only
> > that power given to them by people who agree with them.  It is therefore
> > foolish to concentrate power to enforce rules over other people --you
> > cannot reasonably expect that the arbiters of said rules will not be
> > corrupt.
> 
> So, who said anything about people not being corrupt? Well, except you
> anarcho-whatever folks. Who keep trying to convince folks that crime and
> such will magicly disapear in your system of government.

No one ever said that.  I'm sure crime will still exist.  Robbery,
murder, etc. People go insane sometimes, some are anti-social, etc. 
What we *won't* have, however, are such state-sponsored crimes like
taxation, "regulatory" taxes designed to keep competition away from
state sponsored monopolies, and, of course, that highest of all crimes,
the initiation of force on a worldwide scale.

> > This is the standard line handed to anyone who argues for the abolition
> > of government.  As such, it's pretty easy to tear apart. :)
> >
> > First:  You tell me that without government, I'll end up watching my
> 
> No, what I'd say is that without taxes funding civil services you're going
> to watch your house burn to the slab.

Why?  Why wouldn't the services which people obviously need and want
suddenly vanish if the state didn't exist?  People are obviously going
to be willing to pay for services they want.  You think that mail, fire
protection, etc, wouldn't exist if they weren't state monopolies?  What
evidence do you have which supports this belief?  It certainly runs
counter to all available evidence (i.e. in *every other* service which
isn't monopolized by the state).

> > "house burn to the slab."  This implies that fire departments wouldn't
> > exist if they were not subsidized by the state.  This is incorrect.
> > After all, the first fire departments in the world were not publicly
> > operated.
> 
> Your right, they were a handfull of neighbors who happened to live near each
> other. That isn't the question. The question is how do you plan on handling
> the fire depts. duties in New York or Houston for example?

Read to the end of the paragraph, my dear fellow, and you will be
enlightened.  You really should be a little more patient before you
shoot off your mouth.

> > In a free market, either the homeowner or the insurance
> > companies will have an incentive to support fire departments.  I'm
> 
> Really? How do you figure that? Why do you expect that considering the level
> of abuse in the insurance industry and the competition that drives it that
> it won't get transfered into support of the fire departments without some
> sort of outside regulation? 

What's that?  Someone's running outside regulation in an anarchy?  Your
comment makes no sense in this context.

> And remember, many people don't have insurance.

They'll be able to buy it with the money they save in taxes and reduced
prices due to the lack of taxation at each step in the production of the
goods they purchase.

> What happens when the ABC sponsored fire dept. gets to a non-insurance
> house? 

Then they put out the fire, lest it spread uncontrollably to houses
which *are* covered by ABC insurance.  Then they present the homeowner
with a bill, who in turn presents the bill to his insurance company.

> Or one that's a XYZ house instead. How does the neighbor call the
> right fire station when they notice the house burning?

It is in the interest of the insurance companies (who run or finance the
fire depts.) to make it easy for people to contact a fire department. 
(it saves on claims).  

Of course, what would probably end up happening is that local fire
depts. would form, and be paid by insurance companies according to an
agreed upon rate.  A per-fire deal, if the frequency of fires is
sufficient to support this, or a flat rate (which is nicer for the
insurance companies, since they get to minimize their expenditures this
way).

> What happens when you
> have somebody on a fixed or small income. Is your position that the paultry
> sum they can raise will be taken seriously in regards compensating either
> the insurance company or the fire dept.? 

Insurance companies don't have a problem collecting lots of small fees
if they don't have to pay large ones very often.

> What about the increase in
> insurance premiums, what do you expect those to be compared to the current
> tax rates?

Significantly lower, overall, since we eliminate the middleman.

> > willing to pay the local fire department a fee to stand ready to come
> > and put out fires for me.
> 
> You do it already, it's called taxes.

Yes, but I'd rather do it *without* having a gun pointed at my head.  I
like to be able to choose which organization I want to give my money to
(rather than having the decision made for me by armed men).  

Besides, money is fungible.  For all you or I know, 100% of the money
I've paid in taxes has gone to government boondoggles.

> Yeah, reality certainly argues for civic participation and the willingness
> of neighbors to come forward wit testimony.

Perhaps the reason everyone hates each other so much these days is
because they all know, deep down, that they're being screwed over by (as
far as they can tell) everyone else.  And they are, via that amazing
organization, the state.

Michael Hohensee




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Hohensee 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 14:32:19 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone (fwd)]
Message-ID: <3647DD8E.7FA61D66@nyu.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

 

To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone (fwd)
From: Michael Hohensee 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 01:30:05 -0500
References: <199811100205.UAA14919@einstein.ssz.com>

Jim Choate wrote:
> 
> Forwarded message:
> 
> > Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 15:27:14 -0500
> > From: Petro 
> > Subject: Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone
> >  (fwd)
> 
> >       No, it's that facists & socialists like yourself think we should be
> > happy letting you decide what our social responsibilities are.
> 
> Actualy, no. I'm perfectly happy to let you run around paying no taxes on
> your income. The part you're not going to like is that I'm also not going to
> let you reap one iota of benefit from those systems that are built and
> developed by those of us who do pay taxes without a cost. And the cost will
> be more than what the necessary taxes would have been. Hell, a free-market
> capitalist shouldn't begrudge a tidy profit anyone under any situation.

Of course not --if these services were provided in a free market.  The
problem is, they're currently provided by a monopoly which is willing to
initiate force (or threaten to do so)  against any competitors.  Look at
what happened to poor old Lysander Spooner when he started competing
with the mail carriers back in the 19th century.

This much must be obvious, even to you --after all, we've been telling
you this, in different ways, *over* and *over* again.

> >       I am perfectly willing to pay for a police force. A police force
> > that arrests ALLEGED rapists, treats them like human beings until found
> > guilty and then deals with them as the law indicates. I am NOT willing to
> > pay for a police force that spends most of it's time (well, aside from
> > eating doughnuts, drinking coffee and collecting bribes) chasing after
> > teenagers with illegal chemicals. I am not willing to pay for a police
> > force that extorts money from these same teenagers. I am not willing to pay
> > money for a police force that thinks it needs to arrest people for
> > "loitering", "Mob Action", when it's defined as more than 4 people standing
> > together in a public place, and ESPECIALLY when EVERY TIME THEY ARREST
> > SOMEONE, IT'S THROWN OUT OF COURT.
> 
> Neither am I, unfortunately paying taxes or not won't resolve those sorts of
> issues. What is required is public over-watch groups (as was recently
> implimented in Austin, pisses the cops off big time) and a change in the way
> we run our prisons. As to the way people are currently treated prior to
> being found guilty at a trial is an abuse of power on the part of those
> parties involved and clearly cruel and unusual punishment for an innocent
> man.
> 
> Of course the *REAL* problem isn't the police. It's the people who make the
> laws that the police are sworn to uphold and the judges with a social agenda
> (that is not relevant to their job however much they may squeel like pigs).
> That process *is* most certainly an ideal place to inject consideration and
> respect for civil liberties and the purvue of government institutions.

You again make the argument that everything'd be fine if it weren't for
those nasty people who are abusing their offices.  Surely you remember
the flaw in that argument.  If you don't, read my last post.

> 
> >       I am willing to pay for fire protection. I am not willing to pay
> > for "universal health care", "welfare", and other such nonsense.
> 
> The Constitution happens to mention that the federal government is detailed
> with taking care of the general welfare. If you don't like that sort of stuff
> then get a Constitutional amendment passed.

Gee Jim, you're just as bad as those other statist pricks who like to
reinterpret a word's meaning after it's been changed by decades of
propaganda.

For instance, I very much doubt that "welfare" and "forced charity" were
synonymous, back in the late 18th century.

> > very angry at having to pay for other shit (Senate Luncheons and Swimming
> > Pools, the Militaries greatly inflated budget, all the waste that is todays
> > federal government).
> 
> Agreed. Throwing the Constitution away won't fix that and going to a
> free-market monopolistic no-social-responsibility-at-all system such as
> anarcho-capitalism is sure won't do it.

You still haven't given any solid arguments as to why this is the case. 
You still ignore what we've been telling you and persist in believeing
that all anarcho-capitalists are socially irresponsible at heart.  (Even
when the only apparent difference between me and you is that I'm not
willing to point a gun at another person, or have it pointed for me, to
make him perform his "social responsibility" to give me his property for
one reason or another.)

> >       Yes, but a state can kill those who don't wish to be governed. Can
> > and does routinely.
> 
> Oh what hyperbole. You make it sound like the Nazi's have invaded. They
> haven't. 

Really?  The parallels we've seen recently have been striking.

> Yes, there are misguided people out there. Yes, there are just
> plain old corrupt people out there. That won't change irrespective of the
> political system (or lack of one). 

You were correct right up until the open-parens.

> They don't just go out and pick people
> off the street and shoot them you're over-reacting and succumbing to a
> paranoid delusion of persecution.

Oh no, they haven't started doing that *yet* (as far as I know,
anyway).  They're steadily moving in that direction, however.

> Unless you kill somebody or move a few tons of coke your individual chances
> of being killed by the state is less than being struck by lightening.

What's wrong with moving a few tons of coke?  Who is harmed by coke who
does not wish to be?

> >       But did you bother to read them this time?
> 
> Actualy I read it twice before I even decide if I'm going to reply.
> 

That would explain your responses.  You read them so fast that all you
see are little hooks for you to tack on your pre-recorded statist rants
to, while your mind skims smoothly over those arguments which don't
conform to your preconcieved notions.

Michael Hohensee




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Hohensee 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 14:36:05 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199811100252.UAA15446@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <3647DDEA.2D9B5604@nyu.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate wrote:
> 
> So what are saying...that because any government ever happened to abuse its
> citizens in a particular way is justification to do away with all
> government?

No, it's because *all* governments abuse their citizens.

Michael Hohensee




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous lo14 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 10:42:01 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: govt server architecture
Message-ID: <6c32470712900957c71c30cf0bd3cfe1@anonymous>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Greetings and salutations,

Can anyone share experience with U.S. government server hardware,
used for medium-load computing applications (not supercomputers)?

I'm looking for information on brand names, flops, etc. and where to
find more.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 21:59:44 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: How to solve the tax problem w/o anarchy or force (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811101323.HAA17131@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 09:08:11 -0500
> From: Soren 
> Subject: Re: How to solve the tax problem w/o anarchy or force (fwd)

> 
This also provides an outlet for the social do-gooders to create their
> utopias by vastly inflating those taxes associated with less favored consumables

Hm, interesting choice of terms for comparison. So you're admitting that
anarcho-whatever isn't a social do-gooder, the intent is not to make the
system better or more equitable. Rather you're admitting, apparently
tacitly, that the goal of the anarcho-whatever is personal rather than
social improvement. There is also a further tacit admission with this
system won't address the social ills that plague us currently.

I must admit I'm impressed. In a couple of days I've run across two seperate
anarcho-whatever supporters who admit their proposal won't address the
social ills but rather leaves them up to chance. That's more than in the
last 20 years.

> be heavily taxed, and what not.  Perhaps this is why there were multiple
> states in the US rather than a single homogenous state, prior to Honest
> (I am not a crook) Abe?

Duh, I believe the boy has it.

> 
Last time I looked at it, there were 108 separate taxes included in
> the retail cost of an egg and 112 for a loaf of bread, so yes, I would

I'd like a reference to this particular list if possible.

> 
One question for the socialists out there;  when is the promised
> egalitarian utopia  going to kick in?  It doesn't seem to be
> getting any closer.

I'd ask the same question of the anarcho-whatever but you took care of it so
adroitely above...


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 21:54:28 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811101327.HAA17191@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 11:18:44 +0100
> From: "Albert P. Franco, II" 
> Subject: Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the
>   Foregone(fwd)

> Try to lift yourself out of the bullshit of your theory and give us at
> least one REAL example (current or historic) of a large scale, long lasting
> anarcho-capitalist society. Hippie communes are too small, and make sure
> it's capitalistic. If you can't think of one in the next year or so then
> come back and tell us.

And I've something to add. Any person who mentions Iceland as a workable
anarchy is in deep trouble. I done the research and it doesn't fly as a
workable example *unless* you're willing to legalize murder which is
*EXACTLY* what the Icelanders did. It didn't work for them long-term and it
won't work for us either. So if you want to use it you've got to explain why
legalizing murder is a social positive.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 21:58:55 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811101331.HAA17287@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 01:32:10 -0500
> From: Michael Hohensee 
> Subject: Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone (fwd)

> Jim Choate wrote:
> > 
> > So what are saying...that because any government ever happened to abuse its
> > citizens in a particular way is justification to do away with all
> > government?
> 
> No, it's because *all* governments abuse their citizens.

People abuse people, it's why anarcho-anything won't work. Quit confusing
human nature with political systems. Democracy recognizes that individuals
are abused, and that they are wont to accept that abuse until it becomes
truly excessive (which our country isn't by a long shot). It's the reason
the individual is given a vote and civil liberties.

If you seriously think you're going to pass a set of laws ( or by extension
throw the ones we have out) and the world will be a better place then you
are one confused puppy.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 21:59:26 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone(fwd)
Message-ID: <199811101334.HAA17420@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 01:23:34 -0500
> From: Michael Hohensee 
> Subject: Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone(fwd)

> > I'm still waiting for one of you guys to explain in detail how it works on a
> > day to day basis...
> 
> It works much the same as it does today, except that there isn't a
> parasitic state wasting resources on feeding a useless band of
> politicians, or pointing guns at people who don't obey its whims.

Cop-out. "It's the same but different" is spin-doctor bullshit.

Explain how the system works. Explain how the various systems operate, how
the costs are calculated, and how they're paid. I want to see the same level
of *specificity* that I and others have agreed to provide you in our
examples.

We want an answer not some glib off the shoulder quip.

[I'm deleting the rest of this since it doesn't answer any questions that
have been posed to the anarcho-whatever side]


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 22:07:09 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811101340.HAA17511@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 09:33:53 -0500
> From: Soren 
> Subject: Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the
> 	  Foregone(fwd)

> Is there some specific reason they need to be large scale or long lasting? 

Yes. There are the issues of human psychology which requires stable social
institutions, there is the question of economic fragility if the market is
too fragile or volatile. There is the question of long-term ownership of
property and services. It's hard to run a business if you don't know what
the rules will most likely be in a year or 10.

There are lots of reasons that social and political institutions should be
long-lived.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 22:07:28 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: How to solve the tax problem w/o anarchy or force (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811101342.HAA17593@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: "Blanc" 
> Subject: RE: How to solve the tax problem w/o anarchy or force (fwd)
> Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 21:41:55 -0800

> 
> : Jesus, it's a miracle. Blanc and I actualy agree....I think
> : I'm gonna faint.
> ...................................................
> 
> 
> Eureka, success.
> Keep it in mind.   Everything I ever said that you disagreed with relates to
> that post.

Well I wouldn't jump too high Blanc, it's exactly what I've been saying for
most of my life. It's what I've included in dozens of posts over the last
few weeks regarding the *respect* of civil liberties and the individual.

Perhaps you were just to busy to actualy read them....


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 22:20:48 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: fuck copyright (Re: Advertising Creepiness) (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811101343.HAA17689@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 13:24:23 +0000
> From: "Frank O'Dwyer" 
> Subject: Re: fuck copyright (Re: Advertising Creepiness) (fwd)

> Jim Choate wrote:
> > > You can make money from information provision by charging extra for
> > > up-to-date news, or by charging so little that the cost from the
> > > original provider is so low that it's not worth anyones time to
> > > redistribute it,
> > 
> > That's true now, why don't we see these effects...
> 
> We do. News inherently has a 'sell-by' date. The most obvious example is
> stock quotes where delayed quotes are provided for free whereas
> real-time quotes are heavily charged for. The recipients of such
> information care very much about latency, since it's possible to trade
> on any differences that may exist. There's even some research on attacks
> that simply delay packets in such networks.

Ah, true but I was addressing the last sentence about the cost being so low
nobody will charge for it.....sounds like the nuclear industry marketing
speal of the 50's....

Sorry for the confusion, I guess I should have edited the first part out
since it wasn't relevant.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 23:07:35 +0800
To: support@xroads.com
Subject: Re: fuck copyright (Re: Advertising Creepiness) (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811101414.IAA17997@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Hi Mr. or Ms. support@xroads.com,

I'd like to advise you of abuse of your system and the resultant spam that I
am receiving as a result.

I've checked my subscription list and it contains NO xroads.com subscribers
at all. You are apparently having legitimite, non-commercial traffic
forwarded to your site in order to cause excessive work and potential denial
of services (to your customers).

Please police your own house before you go around threatening $500 leins and
prosecution on others.

Have a nice day.



    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------



Forwarded message:

> From root@dogbert.xroads.com Tue Nov 10 07:52:20 1998
> Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 06:52:46 -0700 (MST)
> Message-Id: <199811101352.GAA09138@dogbert.xroads.com>
> To: owner-cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com
> Subject: Re: fuck copyright (Re: Advertising Creepiness) (fwd)
> References: <199811101343.HAA17689@einstein.ssz.com>
> In-Reply-To: <199811101343.HAA17689@einstein.ssz.com>
> From: abuse@xroads.com
> X-Loop: noloop@noloop.nlp
> 
> >Forwarded message:
> 
> >> Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 13:24:23 +0000
> >> From: "Frank O'Dwyer" 
> >> Subject: Re: fuck copyright (Re: Advertising Creepiness) (fwd)
> 
> >> Jim Choate wrote:
> >> > > You can make money from information provision by charging extra for
> >> > > up-to-date news, or by charging so little that the cost from the
> >> > > original provider is so low that it's not worth anyones time to
> >> > > redistribute it,
> >> > 
> >> > That's true now, why don't we see these effects...
> >> 
> >> We do. News inherently has a 'sell-by' date. The most obvious example is
> >> stock quotes where delayed quotes are provided for free whereas
> >> real-time quotes are heavily charged for. The recipients of such
> >> information care very much about latency, since it's possible to trade
> >> on any differences that may exist. There's even some research on attacks
> >> that simply delay packets in such networks.
> 
> >Ah, true but I was addressing the last sentence about the cost being so low
> >nobody will charge for it.....sounds like the nuclear industry marketing
> >speal of the 50's....
> 
> >Sorry for the confusion, I guess I should have edited the first part out
> >since it wasn't relevant.
> 
> 
> >    ____________________________________________________________________
> > 
> >            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
> >            the right answers.
> 
> >                                        Scully (X-Files)
> 
> >       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
> >       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
> >       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
> >                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
> >    --------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> This is apparently at least the second unsolicited commercial email from your 
> address. If you feel you have received this email in error, please contact 
> support@xroads.com
> 
> Senders of unsolicited commercial email will be charged $500 for each instance
> of unsolicited commerical email on Crossroads network systems, and are 
> subject to prosecution under the following Federal statute, and other 
> applicable federal and local laws.
> 
> 
>      * UNITED STATES CODE
>         
>           + TITLE 47 - TELEGRAPHS, TELEPHONES, AND RADIOTELEGRAPHS
>              
>                o CHAPTER 5 - WIRE OR RADIO COMMUNICATION
>                   
>                     # SUBCHAPTER II - COMMON CARRIERS 
>                       
>    
>      _________________________________________________________________
>    
>     § 227. Restrictions on use of telephone equipment
>      * (a) Definitions
>        
>        As used in this section -
>           + (1) The term ''automatic telephone dialing system'' means
>             equipment which has the capacity -
>                o (A) to store or produce telephone numbers to be called,
>                  using a random or sequential number generator; and
>                o (B) to dial such numbers.
>           + (2) The term ''telephone facsimile machine'' means equipment
>             which has the capacity (A) to transcribe text or images, or
>             both, from paper into an electronic signal and to transmit
>             that signal over a regular telephone line, or (B) to
>             transcribe text or images (or both) from an electronic signal
>             received over a regular telephone line onto paper.
>           + (3) The term ''telephone solicitation'' means the initiation
>             of a telephone call or message for the purpose of encouraging
>             the purchase or rental of, or investment in, property, goods,
>             or services, which is transmitted to any person, but such
>             term does not include a call or message (A) to any person
>             with that person's prior express invitation or permission,
>             (B) to any person with whom the caller has an established
>             business relationship, or (C) by a tax exempt nonprofit
>             organization.
>           + (4) The term ''unsolicited advertisement'' means any material
>             advertising the commercial availability or quality of any
>             property, goods, or services which is transmitted to any
>             person without that person's prior express invitation or
>             permission.
>      * (b) Restrictions on use of automated telephone equipment
>           + (1) Prohibitions
>             
>             It shall be unlawful for any person within the United States
>             -
>                o (A) to make any call (other than a call made for
>                  emergency purposes or made with the prior express
>                  consent of the called party) using any automatic
>                  telephone dialing system or an artificial or prerecorded
>                  voice -
>                     # (i) to any emergency telephone line (including any
>                       ''911'' line and any emergency line of a hospital,
>                       medical physician or service office, health care
>                       facility, poison control center, or fire protection
>                       or law enforcement agency);
>                     # (ii) to the telephone line of any guest room or
>                       patient room of a hospital, health care facility,
>                       elderly home, or similar establishment; or
>                     # (iii) to any telephone number assigned to a paging
>                       service, cellular telephone service, specialized
>                       mobile radio service, or other radio common carrier
>                       service, or any service for which the called party
>                       is charged for the call;
>                o (B) to initiate any telephone call to any residential
>                  telephone line using an artificial or prerecorded voice
>                  to deliver a message without the prior express consent
>                  of the called party, unless the call is initiated for
>                  emergency purposes or is exempted by rule or order by
>                  the Commission under paragraph (2)(B);
>                o (C) to use any telephone facsimile machine, computer, or
>                  other device to send an unsolicited advertisement to a
>                  telephone facsimile machine; or
>                o (D) to use an automatic telephone dialing system in such
>                  a way that two or more telephone lines of a multi-line
>                  business are engaged simultaneously.
>           + (2) Regulations; exemptions and other provisions
>             
>             The Commission shall prescribe regulations to implement the
>             requirements of this subsection. In implementing the
>             requirements of this subsection, the Commission -
>                o (A) shall consider prescribing regulations to allow
>                  businesses to avoid receiving calls made using an
>                  artificial or prerecorded voice to which they have not
>                  given their prior express consent;
>                o (B) may, by rule or order, exempt from the requirements
>                  of paragraph (1)(B) of this subsection, subject to such
>                  conditions as the Commission may prescribe -
>                     # (i) calls that are not made for a commercial
>                       purpose; and
>                     # (ii) such classes or categories of calls made for
>                       commercial purposes as the Commission determines -
>                          @ (I) will not adversely affect the privacy
>                            rights that this section is intended to
>                            protect; and
>                          @ (II) do not include the transmission of any
>                            unsolicited advertisement; and
>                o (C) may, by rule or order, exempt from the requirements
>                  of paragraphs (FOOTNOTE 1) (1)(A)(iii) of this
>                  subsection calls to a telephone number assigned to a
>                  cellular telephone service that are not charged to the
>                  called party, subject to such conditions as the
>                  Commission may prescribe as necessary in the interest of
>                  the privacy rights this section is intended to protect.
>                  (FOOTNOTE 1) So in original. Probably should be
>                  ''paragraph''.
>           + (3) Private right of action
>             
>             A person or entity may, if otherwise permitted by the laws or
>             rules of court of a State, bring in an appropriate court of
>             that State -
>                o (A) an action based on a violation of this subsection or
>                  the regulations prescribed under this subsection to
>                  enjoin such violation,
>                o (B) an action to recover for actual monetary loss from
>                  such a violation, or to receive $500 in damages for each
>                  such violation, whichever is greater, or
>                o (C) both such actions. If the court finds that the
>                  defendant willfully or knowingly violated this
>                  subsection or the regulations prescribed under this
>                  subsection, the court may, in its discretion, increase
>                  the amount of the award to an amount equal to not more
>                  than 3 times the amount available under subparagraph (B)
>                  of this paragraph.
>      * (c) Protection of subscriber privacy rights
>           + (1) Rulemaking proceeding required
>             
>             Within 120 days after December 20, 1991, the Commission shall
>             initiate a rulemaking proceeding concerning the need to
>             protect residential telephone subscribers' privacy rights to
>             avoid receiving telephone solicitations to which they object.
>             The proceeding shall -
>                o (A) compare and evaluate alternative methods and
>                  procedures (including the use of electronic databases,
>                  telephone network technologies, special directory
>                  markings, industry-based or company-specific ''do not
>                  call'' systems, and any other alternatives, individually
>                  or in combination) for their effectiveness in protecting
>                  such privacy rights, and in terms of their cost and
>                  other advantages and disadvantages;
>                o (B) evaluate the categories of public and private
>                  entities that would have the capacity to establish and
>                  administer such methods and procedures;
>                o (C) consider whether different methods and procedures
>                  may apply for local telephone solicitations, such as
>                  local telephone solicitations of small businesses or
>                  holders of second class mail permits;
>                o (D) consider whether there is a need for additional
>                  Commission authority to further restrict telephone
>                  solicitations, including those calls exempted under
>                  subsection (a)(3) of this section, and, if such a
>                  finding is made and supported by the record, propose
>                  specific restrictions to the Congress; and
>                o (E) develop proposed regulations to implement the
>                  methods and procedures that the Commission determines
>                  are most effective and efficient to accomplish the
>                  purposes of this section.
>           + (2) Regulations
>             
>             Not later than 9 months after December 20, 1991, the
>             Commission shall conclude the rulemaking proceeding initiated
>             under paragraph (1) and shall prescribe regulations to
>             implement methods and procedures for protecting the privacy
>             rights described in such paragraph in an efficient,
>             effective, and economic manner and without the imposition of
>             any additional charge to telephone subscribers.
>           + (3) Use of database permitted
>             
>             The regulations required by paragraph (2) may require the
>             establishment and operation of a single national database to
>             compile a list of telephone numbers of residential
>             subscribers who object to receiving telephone solicitations,
>             and to make that compiled list and parts thereof available
>             for purchase. If the Commission determines to require such a
>             database, such regulations shall -
>                o (A) specify a method by which the Commission will select
>                  an entity to administer such database;
>                o (B) require each common carrier providing telephone
>                  exchange service, in accordance with regulations
>                  prescribed by the Commission, to inform subscribers for
>                  telephone exchange service of the opportunity to provide
>                  notification, in accordance with regulations established
>                  under this paragraph, that such subscriber objects to
>                  receiving telephone solicitations;
>                o (C) specify the methods by which each telephone
>                  subscriber shall be informed, by the common carrier that
>                  provides local exchange service to that subscriber, of
>                  (i) the subscriber's right to give or revoke a
>                  notification of an objection under subparagraph (A), and
>                  (ii) the methods by which such right may be exercised by
>                  the subscriber;
>                o (D) specify the methods by which such objections shall
>                  be collected and added to the database;
>                o (E) prohibit any residential subscriber from being
>                  charged for giving or revoking such notification or for
>                  being included in a database compiled under this
>                  section;
>                o (F) prohibit any person from making or transmitting a
>                  telephone solicitation to the telephone number of any
>                  subscriber included in such database;
>                o (G) specify (i) the methods by which any person desiring
>                  to make or transmit telephone solicitations will obtain
>                  access to the database, by area code or local exchange
>                  prefix, as required to avoid calling the telephone
>                  numbers of subscribers included in such database; and
>                  (ii) the costs to be recovered from such persons;
>                o (H) specify the methods for recovering, from persons
>                  accessing such database, the costs involved in
>                  identifying, collecting, updating, disseminating, and
>                  selling, and other activities relating to, the
>                  operations of the database that are incurred by the
>                  entities carrying out those activities;
>                o (I) specify the frequency with which such database will
>                  be updated and specify the method by which such updating
>                  will take effect for purposes of compliance with the
>                  regulations prescribed under this subsection;
>                o (J) be designed to enable States to use the database
>                  mechanism selected by the Commission for purposes of
>                  administering or enforcing State law;
>                o (K) prohibit the use of such database for any purpose
>                  other than compliance with the requirements of this
>                  section and any such State law and specify methods for
>                  protection of the privacy rights of persons whose
>                  numbers are included in such database; and
>                o (L) require each common carrier providing services to
>                  any person for the purpose of making telephone
>                  solicitations to notify such person of the requirements
>                  of this section and the regulations thereunder.
>           + (4) Considerations required for use of database method
>             
>             If the Commission determines to require the database
>             mechanism described in paragraph (3), the Commission shall -
>                o (A) in developing procedures for gaining access to the
>                  database, consider the different needs of telemarketers
>                  conducting business on a national, regional, State, or
>                  local level;
>                o (B) develop a fee schedule or price structure for
>                  recouping the cost of such database that recognizes such
>                  differences and -
>                     # (i) reflect the relative costs of providing a
>                       national, regional, State, or local list of phone
>                       numbers of subscribers who object to receiving
>                       telephone solicitations;
>                     # (ii) reflect the relative costs of providing such
>                       lists on paper or electronic media; and
>                     # (iii) not place an unreasonable financial burden on
>                       small businesses; and
>                o (C) consider (i) whether the needs of telemarketers
>                  operating on a local basis could be met through special
>                  markings of area white pages directories, and (ii) if
>                  such directories are needed as an adjunct to database
>                  lists prepared by area code and local exchange prefix.
>           + (5) Private right of action
>             
>             A person who has received more than one telephone call within
>             any 12-month period by or on behalf of the same entity in
>             violation of the regulations prescribed under this subsection
>             may, if otherwise permitted by the laws or rules of court of
>             a State bring in an appropriate court of that State -
>                o (A) an action based on a violation of the regulations
>                  prescribed under this subsection to enjoin such
>                  violation,
>                o (B) an action to recover for actual monetary loss from
>                  such a violation, or to receive up to $500 in damages
>                  for each such violation, whichever is greater, or
>                o (C) both such actions. It shall be an affirmative
>                  defense in any action brought under this paragraph that
>                  the defendant has established and implemented, with due
>                  care, reasonable practices and procedures to effectively
>                  prevent telephone solicitations in violation of the
>                  regulations prescribed under this subsection. If the
>                  court finds that the defendant willfully or knowingly
>                  violated the regulations prescribed under this
>                  subsection, the court may, in its discretion, increase
>                  the amount of the award to an amount equal to not more
>                  than 3 times the amount available under subparagraph (B)
>                  of this paragraph.
>           + (6) Relation to subsection (b)
>             
>             The provisions of this subsection shall not be construed to
>             permit a communication prohibited by subsection (b) of this
>             section.
>      * (d) Technical and procedural standards
>           + (1) Prohibition
>             
>             It shall be unlawful for any person within the United States
>             -
>                o (A) to initiate any communication using a telephone
>                  facsimile machine, or to make any telephone call using
>                  any automatic telephone dialing system, that does not
>                  comply with the technical and procedural standards
>                  prescribed under this subsection, or to use any
>                  telephone facsimile machine or automatic telephone
>                  dialing system in a manner that does not comply with
>                  such standards; or
>                o (B) to use a computer or other electronic device to send
>                  any message via a telephone facsimile machine unless
>                  such person clearly marks, in a margin at the top or
>                  bottom of each transmitted page of the message or on the
>                  first page of the transmission, the date and time it is
>                  sent and an identification of the business, other
>                  entity, or individual sending the message and the
>                  telephone number of the sending machine or of such
>                  business, other entity, or individual.
>           + (2) Telephone facsimile machines
>             
>             The Commission shall revise the regulations setting technical
>             and procedural standards for telephone facsimile machines to
>             require that any such machine which is manufactured after one
>             year after December 20, 1991, clearly marks, in a margin at
>             the top or bottom of each transmitted page or on the first
>             page of each transmission, the date and time sent, an
>             identification of the business, other entity, or individual
>             sending the message, and the telephone number of the sending
>             machine or of such business, other entity, or individual.
>           + (3) Artificial or prerecorded voice systems
>             
>             The Commission shall prescribe technical and procedural
>             standards for systems that are used to transmit any
>             artificial or prerecorded voice message via telephone. Such
>             standards shall require that -
>                o (A) all artificial or prerecorded telephone messages (i)
>                  shall, at the beginning of the message, state clearly
>                  the identity of the business, individual, or other
>                  entity initiating the call, and (ii) shall, during or
>                  after the message, state clearly the telephone number or
>                  address of such business, other entity, or individual;
>                  and
>                o (B) any such system will automatically release the
>                  called party's line within 5 seconds of the time
>                  notification is transmitted to the system that the
>                  called party has hung up, to allow the called party's
>                  line to be used to make or receive other calls.
>      * (e) Effect on State law
>           + (1) State law not preempted
>             
>             Except for the standards prescribed under subsection (d) of
>             this section and subject to paragraph (2) of this subsection,
>             nothing in this section or in the regulations prescribed
>             under this section shall preempt any State law that imposes
>             more restrictive intrastate requirements or regulations on,
>             or which prohibits -
>                o (A) the use of telephone facsimile machines or other
>                  electronic devices to send unsolicited advertisements;
>                o (B) the use of automatic telephone dialing systems;
>                o (C) the use of artificial or prerecorded voice messages;
>                  or
>                o (D) the making of telephone solicitations.
>           + (2) State use of databases
>             
>             If, pursuant to subsection (c)(3) of this section, the
>             Commission requires the establishment of a single national
>             database of telephone numbers of subscribers who object to
>             receiving telephone solicitations, a State or local authority
>             may not, in its regulation of telephone solicitations,
>             require the use of any database, list, or listing system that
>             does not include the part of such single national datebase
>             (FOOTNOTE 2) that relates to such State.
>             
>             (FOOTNOTE 2) So in original. Probably should be ''database''.
>      * (f) Actions by States
>           + (1) Authority of States
>             
>             Whenever the attorney general of a State, or an official or
>             agency designated by a State, has reason to believe that any
>             person has engaged or is engaging in a pattern or practice of
>             telephone calls or other transmissions to residents of that
>             State in violation of this section or the regulations
>             prescribed under this section, the State may bring a civil
>             action on behalf of its residents to enjoin such calls, an
>             action to recover for actual monetary loss or receive $500 in
>             damages for each violation, or both such actions. If the
>             court finds the defendant willfully or knowingly violated
>             such regulations, the court may, in its discretion, increase
>             the amount of the award to an amount equal to not more than 3
>             times the amount available under the preceding sentence.
>           + (2) Exclusive jurisdiction of Federal courts
>             
>             The district courts of the United States, the United States
>             courts of any territory, and the District Court of the United
>             States for the District of Columbia shall have exclusive
>             jurisdiction over all civil actions brought under this
>             subsection. Upon proper application, such courts shall also
>             have jurisdiction to issue writs of mandamus, or orders
>             affording like relief, commanding the defendant to comply
>             with the provisions of this section or regulations prescribed
>             under this section, including the requirement that the
>             defendant take such action as is necessary to remove the
>             danger of such violation. Upon a proper showing, a permanent
>             or temporary injunction or restraining order shall be granted
>             without bond.
>           + (3) Rights of Commission
>             
>             The State shall serve prior written notice of any such civil
>             action upon the Commission and provide the Commission with a
>             copy of its complaint, except in any case where such prior
>             notice is not feasible, in which case the State shall serve
>             such notice immediately upon instituting such action. The
>             Commission shall have the right (A) to intervene in the
>             action, (B) upon so intervening, to be heard on all matters
>             arising therein, and (C) to file petitions for appeal.
>           + (4) Venue; service of process
>             
>             Any civil action brought under this subsection in a district
>             court of the United States may be brought in the district
>             wherein the defendant is found or is an inhabitant or
>             transacts business or wherein the violation occurred or is
>             occurring, and process in such cases may be served in any
>             district in which the defendant is an inhabitant or where the
>             defendant may be found.
>           + (5) Investigatory powers
>             
>             For purposes of bringing any civil action under this
>             subsection, nothing in this section shall prevent the
>             attorney general of a State, or an official or agency
>             designated by a State, from exercising the powers conferred
>             on the attorney general or such official by the laws of such
>             State to conduct investigations or to administer oaths or
>             affirmations or to compel the attendance of witnesses or the
>             production of documentary and other evidence.
>           + (6) Effect on State court proceedings
>             
>             Nothing contained in this subsection shall be construed to
>             prohibit an authorized State official from proceeding in
>             State court on the basis of an alleged violation of any
>             general civil or criminal statute of such State.
>           + (7) Limitation
>             
>             Whenever the Commission has instituted a civil action for
>             violation of regulations prescribed under this section, no
>             State may, during the pendency of such action instituted by
>             the Commission, subsequently institute a civil action against
>             any defendant named in the Commission's complaint for any
>             violation as alleged in the Commission's complaint.
>           + (8) ''Attorney general'' defined
>             
>             As used in this subsection, the term ''attorney general''
>             means the chief legal officer of a State.
>             
>    
>      _________________________________________________________________
>    
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 21:55:10 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: CALEA likely will cover Internet telephony
Message-ID: <199811101330.FAA08525@smtp.well.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 08:30:19 -0500
>To: politech@vorlon.mit.edu
>From: Declan McCullagh 
>Subject: Wiretapping law likely will cover Internet telephony
>
>[Any blame should not properly go to the FCC but Congress, which voted for
Digital Telephony/CALEA in the first place. --Declan]
>
>===
>
>http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/16146.html
>
>                     Wiretapping Internet Phone Lines
>                     by Declan McCullagh 
>
>                     4:00 a.m.  10.Nov.98.PST
>                     A federal wiretapping law designed to let
>                     police snoop on telephone calls could
>                     have profound implications for companies
>                     that offer Internet phone service.
>
>                     [...]
>
>
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Soren 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 21:39:15 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: How to solve the tax problem w/o anarchy or force (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199811100336.VAA15683@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <364848CB.A2260BA8@workmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/html




Jim Choate wrote:
> Air traffic controlling
When you buy your ticket from a commercial carrier and don't present
a tax
receipt your ticket price goes WAY! up.
> Food and Drug Administration approvals
When you buy food or drugs if you don't present your tax receipt then
you
pay the full price for foods and drugs.
 
Very little explication of the difference between indirect taxes and direct. 
The compromize that most libertarians propose (to anarcho-capitalists),
is that indirect (viz: consumption) taxes allow freedom of choice as opposed
to direct taxes (viz: 'income' taxes). I.e., don't want to pay taxes on
it? don't buy it.
This also provides an outlet for the social do-gooders to create their
utopias by vastly inflating those taxes associated with less favored consumables
(tobacco, alcohol, guns, McD's, anchovies). This is not such a bad thing
as it may seem, as you can always elect to vote with your feet and relocate
yourself to where the local population agree with you as to what should
be heavily taxed, and what not.  Perhaps this is why there were multiple
states in the US rather than a single homogenous state, prior to Honest
(I am not a crook) Abe?
Last time I looked at it, there were 108 separate taxes included in
the retail cost of an egg and 112 for a loaf of bread, so yes, I would
prefer to pay the full price, sans taxes, please. The same goes for travel
via airline.  Not so many taxen, just heftier ones at each step --
something like 15 at last count (fuel, landing contracts, use of airspace,
airport property taxes, country exit taxes ...).
Direct taxes, without apportionment to the states, are illegal in the
US. Says so right there in the constitution.  The 16th didn't confer
any more abilities on the federal government to sidestep this restriction. 
In fact, direct taxes were (and legally still are), only applicable to
federal employees and those who reside within the boundaries of federal
jurisdiction (Washington D.C, land leased from the states, certain offshore
islands such as Johnston Atoll, Guam ships and planes of federal registry
...).  So if you think paying federal direct taxes is the solution
to society's ills, join the federal payroll, become a ward of the state.
With the direct taxes you are already (voluntarily) paying, you are already
halfway there.
One question for the socialists out there;  when is the promised
egalitarian utopia  going to kick in?  It doesn't seem to be
getting any closer.



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Soren 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 22:03:03 +0800
To: cyphers 
Subject: Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the  Foregone(fwd)
In-Reply-To: <5F152E6E8E6FD21195DF00104B2425AD02B276@yarrowbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
Message-ID: <36484ED1.6F3B9F1E@workmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/html




Albert P. Franco, II wrote:
I've been lurking on this thread for a while, and
I am amazed by the level
of utopist muck that is being spewed here by you.
Without some government the Bad Guys will be the only ones with anything.
It is only with the threat of losing their power that leaders do good.
If
they had no power which could be lost or taken they will always do
what's
best for them in the short term, which is usually to shit on the peons.
Dictators (like Pinochet and Gates) do their dirty deeds because they
feel
no need to placate the masses.
And the Bad Guys don't have everything already? Are they in any danger
of losing their power?
 
This anarcho-capitalist spew is so much crap that the bullshit indicators
are blaring at top volume. If the people can't control a constitutional
government, known for having peacefully free elections for over two
hundred
years, then how the hell do think you can convince somebody that the
people
are going to be able to control warlords and monopolies. It's called,
"You
don't like it? Bang, Bang, you're dead!"
And this differs from living in in a 1st world state, how?
Try to lift yourself out of the bullshit of your
theory and give us at
least one REAL example (current or historic) of a large scale, long
lasting
anarcho-capitalist society. Hippie communes are too small, and make
sure
it's capitalistic. If you can't think of one in the next year or so
then
come back and tell us.
Is there some specific reason they need to be large scale or long lasting? 
By definition, anarcho-capitalism is constantly changing -- perhaps as
much as between extreme individualism, to the current state of feudalism
that has pervaded the world since the birth of agrarianism.
I agree with you that most utopianist ranting here carries a strong
whiff of frustration and steam venting.  To those anarcho-capitalists,
I recommend the course of action I took 25 years ago.  If you don't
like the state you live in, don't patronize it.  There are many save
harbors in the world that better approach your ideals, and are more amenable
to change, than the Union of Socialist Americans.
"Educate, don't agitate".
 



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 23:51:23 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: American Banker article on DigiCash bankruptcy
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Mime-Version: 1.0
X-Sender: rah@pop.sneaker.net
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 07:36:45 -0500
To: Digital Bearer Settlement List 
From: Robert Hettinga 
Subject: American Banker article on DigiCash bankruptcy
Sender: 
Precedence: Bulk
List-Subscribe: 
X-Web-Archive: http://www.philodox.com/dbs-archive/


--- begin forwarded text


Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 12:23:36 +0100 (MET)
From: Somebody
To: rah@shipwright.com
Subject: American Banker article on DigiCash bankruptcy

From: Somebody Else
To: Somebody
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 05:41:36 -0500

,

This is the American Banker article on the subject:

Digital Frontiers
Tuesday, November 10, 1998

Electronic Commerce: Bankrupt Digicash to Seek Financing, New Allies
By Jeffrey Kutler & Carol Power
Digicash Inc., which invented a virtual cash concept for the Internet,
now must reinvent itself.

With the announcement last week that it filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy
protection, Digicash has embarked on yet another phase of a corporate
saga that has won it acclaim and admiration in both the banking and
Internet communities -- but precious little business.

Shielded for the moment from creditor pressures, the Palo Alto, Calif.,
company will attempt to find the financing and forge the strategic
relationships it needs to widen the appeal of its eCash product, said
interim chief executive officer Scott Loftesness.

The company also has a significant "intellectual property portfolio," he
said, that could prove useful in other applications requiring privacy
and anonymity, such as electronic voting.

Mr. Loftesness indicated that Digicash has never exploited the full
potential of its patents to generate licensing income, which now might
help turn the operation around.

Bankruptcy is but the latest of many turns for an eight-year-old venture
created by David Chaum, a former University of California professor and
expert on data encryption who was among the first to see a need for a
cash-like payment mechanism on open networks. The design of eCash and
its anonymity principles attracted widespread attention in 1994 and 1995
as banks and other corporations began exploring the Internet's
commercial potential.

Through a series of consulting projects and demonstrations, Digicash
came close to assembling a network of banks to issue and manage the
virtual currency. But the licensee group -- including Deutsche Bank, Den
Norske Bank, Bank Austria, Advance Bank of Australia, and Mark Twain
Bank of St. Louis -- never got beyond pilot stages.

Things were looking up in 1997 when Digicash attracted venture capital
interest from, among others, David Marquardt of August Capital, who was
an early backer of Microsoft Corp.

Digicash also reconstituted its board with Massachusetts Institute of
Technology professor Nicholas Negroponte as chairman, and hired
"professional management" led by CEO Michael Nash, a former American
Express Co. and Visa International executive. Mr. Chaum remained as
chief technology officer.

The headquarters was moved from Mr. Chaum's base in Amsterdam to Silicon
Valley. Many in the banking technology world took positive note of the
fact that in June 1998, former Wells Fargo & Co. president William
Zuendt joined Mr. Negroponte, Mr. Marquardt, Mr. Chaum, Toon den Heijer
of Gilde Investment Funds, and others on the board.

This past August, Mr. Nash was succeeded by Mr. Loftesness, who also has
Visa in his background. The part of the operation that remained in
Amsterdam was closed, and the staff was cut significantly from its peak
of about 50.

Mr. Loftesness said last week that he intends to see the Chapter 11
process through. He described eCash as "important and inevitable" for
the maturity of electronic commerce.

Throughout its struggles to prove it was not too far ahead of its time,
Digicash has been followed closely by analysts and treated seriously by
competitors. Many were impressed by the technology's cash-like anonymity
and an accountability system that prevents any of the virtual coins from
being spent twice, yet without compromising personal privacy.

"There is a great lesson in it," said Richard Crone, vice president of
Cybercash Inc. and general manager of PayNow, its version of an
electronic check. "You must match the payment type to the application
that is being sold."

He called Digicash "a payment type in search of an application, rather
than an application in search of a payment."

So far in Internet consumer payments, particularly in the United States,
credit cards have won the day. "We've done such a good job deploying
credit cards and reassuring consumers that the security is present," Mr.
Crone said, that there is no compelling need for eCash. (Cybercash's
cybercoin product ran up against the same reality, but the Reston, Va.,
company is active in several payment modes, including credit cards.)

Cybercash's inroads in markets outside the United States with lower
credit card penetration -- Germany, Japan, the United Kingdom -- were
due to financial institution partners, Mr. Crone said. "Digicash did not
have the support we did."

David Stewart, vice president of Global Concepts Inc., Norcross, Ga.,
criticized Digicash for not bridging the physical and virtual worlds. He
said as currently configured, eCash compares unfavorably with MasterCard
International's Mondex venture, the Belgium-based Proton system, or
Avant of Finland, which are smart cards with an Internet transmission
component.

Because eCash "needed on-line validation of tokens spent, clearing of
the transactions required authorization like a credit card," Mr. Stewart
said.

Another strike against eCash, he said, was the lack of major financial
institution support in the United States, where there are constituencies
for Mondex, Visa International's Visa Cash, and Proton, which is
part-owned by Visa and American Express Co.

"Digicash needs to come up with an off-line electronic cash scheme and
have the backing of a serious player in the payments world," Mr. Stewart
said.

The one U.S. participant, Mark Twain Bank, was acquired by Mercantile
Bancorp. of St. Louis 20 months ago. Larry Kirschner, Mercantile Bank
senior vice president of foreign exchange, said eCash "was not
profitable from the moment we inherited it.

"We tried to figure out how to make it profitable and for it to appeal
to our corporate and retail customers, to very little success," he said.
The bank ended its three-year experiment in September.

It had 5,000 eCash customers, about 20% of them in Mercantile's
eight-state Midwest territory and the rest on the two coasts. They held
"significantly less" than $100,000 in eCash accounts, Mr. Kirschner
said.

"We didn't see a strategic fit for eCash," he said. "The revenue stream
was not there, the demand was not there, and quite frankly, it wasn't
going to be there."

The banker said eCash suffered because the public "did not have any
insecurity and did use their credit cards on the Internet."

But Mr. Loftesness said Digicash's board and backers have not lost faith
that "eCash is inevitable. The length of time and the amount of
financing to get there remain the key open questions."

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Duncan Frissell 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 23:19:45 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Usual Computer Ban
Message-ID: <199811101453.JAA28698@mail1.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>Pentagon Kids Kicked Off Grid 
>Reuters
>
>11:47 a.m.  6.Nov.98.PST Two California teenagers who mounted what the
Pentagon >called one the most systematic attacks ever made against a US
military computer >network were sentenced by a federal judge Thursday.
>
>US District Judge Maxine Chesney doled out the usual punishment for those
convicted >of computer crimes: No more computers. The boys, aged 16 and 17,
are barred from >using modems or computers without supervision during their
three-year probation.
>
>The judge forbade the hackers from possessing or using a computer modem,
acting as >computer consultants, or having any contact with computers out
of sight of "a school >teacher, librarian, employer, or other person
approved by the probation officer."

Usual laugh.  Not technically feasible to mount this sort of Denial of
Service attack unless you actually imprison them.

Computers and connections are a bit too ubiquitous.

DCF




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 23:29:56 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: fuck copyright (Re: Advertising Creepiness) (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199811100539.XAA16120@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 8:24 AM -0500 on 11/10/98, Frank O'Dwyer wrote:
> There's even some research on attacks
> that simply delay packets in such networks.

Right. In the movie "The Sting", they called this con "The Wire".

:-).

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 23:53:58 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Guy, anti-copyright hacker (Re: Advertising Creepiness)
Message-ID: <199811101523.KAA05690@panix7.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



   >   From: Adam Back 
   >
   >   Information Security  writes:
   >   > Declan writes:
   >   > >   Willfully redistributing copyrighted material in violation of fair
   >   > >   use principles is, depending on the value, also a federal
   >   > >   crime. Redistributing a $1 article to thousands of people would be
   >   > >   a felony. (Note I don't endorse this law, but it's useful to know
   >   > >   what the law is.)
   >   > 
   >   > I guess that qualifies as a request for more color.
   >   > 
   >   > In the local Panix Usenet groups, I've reposted quite a few whole articles,
   >   > often from the IP list.
   >   > 
   >   > Finally, a couple people made a stink, and officially complained to Panix.
   >   > 
   >   > [snip panix owner backing down and not interfering with Guy's posts of 
   >   >  whole supposedly copyrighted material]
   >
   >   Nice one Guy!
   >
   >   The zen approach, it reminds me of a tactic to do with USENET cancel
   >   forgeries used by a recentish poster to this list who you made much
   >   a-do about being a terminator of.

Ugh, um, ...but he was a nutter, unlike me. ;-)

The other half of the reason I chose the IP list is because
of my dislike of its owner, nutter Michele Moore.

She is trying to profit from a book claiming various government agencies
knew full well the OK Murrah building was going to be blown up, and
purposely did nothing. Trying to profit from other's misery.

(At least my nutter anti-ECHELON "Cryptography Manifesto" is free.)

She also terminated my list subscription when I made a single post
asking for people not to make homophobic posts. She was 100% unforgiving
on this, even though I promised not to make such a post again. She
described the homophobic posts as "Christian". (This was around the time
Pat Robertson made comments about Florida's Disney being hit by God with
hurricanes because of its "gay days" promotion.)

It's also a very high-volume list, and I recently asked her about
posting about car antennas...

#   From believer@telepath.com Fri Oct 30 06:47:36 1998
#   To: Information Security 
#   Subject: Re: IP: New Radio Antennas May Cool Car Interior, Defrost Car Windows
#   
#   Dear Guy:
#   
#   Regarding:
#   >What does this have to do with IP's charter?
#   >---guy
#   
#   Once again, as you are a non-subscriber receiving posts by forwarding
#   (which is fine), it's none of your business.  Enjoy the posts that you
#   receive, feel free to forward them wherever you wish, but please do not
#   contact me again for any reason.

Bitch.

   >   > Then, the Digital Copyright Massive Federal Interference Act...
   >   > 
   >   > >   Fair Use vs. Intellectual Property: The U.S. Congress
   >   > >   passed the Digital Millenium Copyright Act, a bill designed to
   >   > >   distinguish between fair use and protected intellectual property
   >   > >   in cyberspace.
   >   > >   
   >   > >        
   >   > 
   >   > I chose the IP list as the next-level test case...
   >
   >   I'm curious ... how have you faired since the millenium copyright act
   >   with panix?  Any results?  Or is this still on-going?

I've been snipping down articles a bit since then.

As far as I know, no one has complained about my posts
relative to the new law.
---guy




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 01:04:46 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: How to solve the tax problem w/o anarchy or force (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811101623.KAA18748@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 10:28:10 -0500
> From: Soren 
> Subject: Re: How to solve the tax problem w/o anarchy or force (fwd)

> I used to be an anarcho-capitalist, but concluded I was far too selfish. In fact, if
> you'd read the first line about the libertarian compromize, rather than looking for
> hooks, you'd see that I was attempting rapprochement.  Mostly I'm not at all
> interested in being drawn into political wastings of energy, life is too short.  I
> made my choice 25 years ago, and have been (largely) free and untaxed for that time.
> Harry Browne's "How I found freedom in an unfree world" came along at about the same
> time I cut loose from the nation-state.

You're speaking of federal taxes, or you don't own property in your own
name. I suppose you wouldn't call the fire dept. if your house caught on
fire since you don't pay taxes. You wouldn't call the police if there was a
problem either.

> Why the pejorative use of "anarcho-whatever" and the whole personal level at which you
> pitch your responses?  Is it your intent to stir up anger by using imflammatory
> rhetoric?

No, my intent in wording is to get at the core of what is being proposed. A
characteristic of anarcho-whatever and lawyers is they never say what they
mean. If they did very few would give them the attention they get now.

>  Or (more likely) is this an example of newspeak? Whatever, it comes across
> as mean-spirited and sad. An indicator perhaps, of someone who loves to "go for the
> jugular".  A common "small man" trait. Are you a small man Jim? Do you need the power
> of the state to make you feel big by proxy?

IROFL.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Soren 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 22:54:37 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: How to solve the tax problem w/o anarchy or force (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199811101323.HAA17131@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <36485B8A.B183694F@workmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate wrote:

> > 
This also provides an outlet for the social do-gooders to create their
> > utopias by vastly inflating those taxes associated with less favored consumables
>
> Hm, interesting choice of terms for comparison. So you're admitting that
> anarcho-whatever isn't a social do-gooder, the intent is not to make the
> system better or more equitable. Rather you're admitting, apparently
> tacitly, that the goal of the anarcho-whatever is personal rather than
> social improvement. There is also a further tacit admission with this
> system won't address the social ills that plague us currently.
>

I used to be an anarcho-capitalist, but concluded I was far too selfish. In fact, if
you'd read the first line about the libertarian compromize, rather than looking for
hooks, you'd see that I was attempting rapprochement.  Mostly I'm not at all
interested in being drawn into political wastings of energy, life is too short.  I
made my choice 25 years ago, and have been (largely) free and untaxed for that time.
Harry Browne's "How I found freedom in an unfree world" came along at about the same
time I cut loose from the nation-state.

Why the pejorative use of "anarcho-whatever" and the whole personal level at which you
pitch your responses?  Is it your intent to stir up anger by using imflammatory
rhetoric?  Or (more likely) is this an example of newspeak? Whatever, it comes across
as mean-spirited and sad. An indicator perhaps, of someone who loves to "go for the
jugular".  A common "small man" trait. Are you a small man Jim? Do you need the power
of the state to make you feel big by proxy?

One thing the anarcho-capitalist rants all contain, is frustration at being under the
thumb of authority.  They believe that outlawing big thumbs will fix this.  Until that
happy day (should it ever occur), I have perceived that big thumbs are very clumsy. I
prefer to move rapidly enough that they have difficulty in pinning me down, numbering
me, punching and spindling me.  My domiciles tend to be in nation-states that provide
safe havens to those who have stuff that the big thumbs would like to expropriate. I
visited and left the US at about the time the streets paved with gold turned to the
streets paved with goldbrickers.

Some of the socialist propaganda leaked out in your posting.  Why would I be concerned
about curing "social ills"?  I'm fully tied up in interacting with my own little
society -- my parents, siblings, children, friends, pets, possessions.  Why would I
need or desire any other (arbitrary) social connections?  I don't have your missionary
zeal I suppose. All such change that I could effect would be as nothing, seen from the
perspective of 100 years in the future. I'd hate to be branded as a 'deadbeat dad' by
my nakama because I was paying more attention to righting abstract wrongs, than
reading to my children. Pillory Klinton was almost correct; it does take a village, or
buggering off to live in one and leaving the neo-roman empiricists to prop up their
ailing support system without me.

If you are more concerned about addressing social ills than your personal life, I feel
sorry for you.  If you want to make a contribution to the social ills I have
accumulated however, I'll send you my numbered account details and you can deposit
directly.

> > 
Last time I looked at it, there were 108 separate taxes included in
> > the retail cost of an egg and 112 for a loaf of bread, so yes, I would
>
> I'd like a reference to this particular list if possible.

Go find it yourself.  I'm not a charitable or state institution.  Here's a hint though
-- Ralph Nader, comsumer watchdogs.

>
>
> > 
One question for the socialists out there;  when is the promised
> > egalitarian utopia  going to kick in?  It doesn't seem to be
> > getting any closer.
>
> I'd ask the same question of the anarcho-whatever but you took care of it so
> adroitely above...
>

Very good point. I take it as reinforcing the correctness of my decision to opt-out.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 01:20:30 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811101638.KAA18839@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 01:25:02 +1000
> From: Reeza! 
> Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the
>   Foregone (fwd)

> I think there may be a finer distiction- it lies in corruption of the
> enforcing body.

Your right, let me spell it out. Free-markets as depicted by
anarcho-whatever theories legitimize theft, physical violence, extortion,
etc. They further a priori abandon any precept of social institution and
leave it all on the shoulder of the individuals. Additionaly they abandon
such concepts of justice, equity, etc. because they describe no mechanism
to handle these issues. And finaly, they don't even attempt to recognize
the international interactions and cultural differences that drive them.

They make the same mistake as every other form of non-democratic system,
they assume because it works for one it works for all.

> This is the same sort of tactic imho as the war on drugs(tm). Big show,
> little enforcement, extract money from the money holders. Money exchanges =
> leniency.

Not even hardly. At least citizens can change the laws under a democracy.
Under an anarcho-whatever it is strictly lump it or like it unless you're
willing to fund a bigger gun.

> Aside from the comment on honesty, the rest of this reply is sophistry.
> Petro was asserting a point, which Jim acknowledged, then procedes to
> assassinate with particulars of questionable relevance. In a true anarchy,
> who is to say that trade in human lives and stolen property must be stopped
> in that "true free market"???

Ask the humans who are being traided or the peson the property was stolen
from.

I'm going to stop now, this particular vein of discussion is bereft of any
and all positive attributes when one tries to justify slavery and theft.

Like I said, at least your more honest than the rest of these wanna-be
thieves.

You might want to see doctor about that hole you shot in your foot while
it was in your mouth.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 01:40:00 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 9:52 PM -0500 11/9/98, Jim Choate wrote:
>Forwarded message:
>> 	Usualy !=3D Correctly.
>> 	Take tomatoes. Perfectly legal (AFAIK) everywhere, here in this
>> country a 5 year old child can buy a tomato from a farmer with a stand on
>> the side of the road.
>> 	If you go back 10 years, and if "this country" was the soviet
>> union, a tomato purchased from the wrong person could get you in trouble.
>So what are saying...that because any government ever happened to abuse its
>citizens in a particular way is justification to do away with all
>government?

	No, I am saying that since EVERY government at one time or another
treats its citizens like roaches, it's time to radically change the nature
of it so that it basically can't be called a government any more.

>> 	This is true in this coutry. Licquor is legal if purchased thru the
>> approved store.
>>
>> 	Try selling the same thing out of the back of your truck.
>>
>> 	It is the product, or how the product is sold.
>
>Well actualy it's whether it has a tax stamp whether you sell it out of a
>storefront or a truckbed is irrelevent. Considering the number of people who

	Wanna bet?

	Most states have fairly strict laws concerning where liquor can be
sold.

>died in the late 1800's and early 1900's because of moonshine liquor from
>contaminated stills that were unregulated (where were those fine upstanding
>ethical considerate eco-anarchists then?) it's probably a good thing that
>it's illegal to sell untaxed and therefore anonymous alcohol.

	Which is completely irrelevant as to wheter or not it is currently
black market or not, which is the context I was working in.

	Stay on target.

>> 	So take ampthetimines (well, don't take them, but take the case of
>> them), if I get them from Joe Random Drug Dealer, it's black Market, if I
>> get them from Paul the Doctor, it's "white" market.
>
>Not necessarily. The doctor has to have a medicaly supportable reason to
>dispence those drugs. Otherwise it's just as black market as Joe's.

	Quibble Quibble. You know EXACTLY what I meant.

>> 	I didn't think of theft when I wrote the above, and I don't usually
>
>Didn't think of theft? Jesus H. Christ, you gotta be on Joe's drugs. The
>vast majority of material sold on *ANY* black market is stolen from its
>rightful owner. It is *the* example of black market trading that most folks
>think of first.

	No, the vast majority (in terms of dollars) of stuff sold on the
black market is Drugs.

>> 	I still maintain that as one moves closer to a completely free
>> market, there is less and less of a black market, and to be the extrememe
>> case of a free market, there would be the potential to trade in both human
>> lives, and in stolen property.
>
>Well, at least you're an honest eco-anarchist. And how do you propose to stop
>this sort of behaviour (it's clear that there is a market whether the
>economy is free-market or not) without some sort of 3rd party arbiter (call
>it government or not is irrelevant to the point)?

	Treat theft like any other economic activity, and figure out how to
make it unprofitable.


>> In a free market, the selling of stolen
>> goods might not be a crime in and of itself, but the posession of those
>> things could be,
>
>How the hell do you sell something on the black market if you don't have
>possession of it? And exactly who is going to prosecute anyone for

	Easy, it's called a Con.

	Seriously tho, I said that the _selling_ of stolen goods might not
be illegal, but the possesion of such things, and the stealing of them are
seperate acts to the selling of them.

	One can be illegal with out the others being illegal.

>possession? Since we've done away with laws governing economics and trade
>there isn't even a court to try the perps in if we did apprehend them
>ourselves.

	There isn't a need to. Shoot them.

	Also, a negligably regulated market doesn't necessarily mean that
there are no laws, there are many, many activities that are proscribed by
law which have little or nothing to do with economics.

> and the aquireing would be, as well, the _hiring_ of an
>> assassin might be legal, as long as no killing took place. When it does,
>> you hang the assassin on murder, and the hirer on conspiracy, aiding and
>> abetting or whatever, and stick them in the same cell.
>
>Huh? Who is doing all this arresting and writing of laws, and building
>jails, and staffing prisons, or hiring hangmen?

	Good point, guess we'll either have to kill them outright, or start
cutting off fingers.

--
"To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a
jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a
gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather naďve, and certainly
unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust"
http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html

Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro@playboy.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 01:49:32 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 11:03 PM -0500 11/9/98, Jim Choate wrote:
>Forwarded message:
>> 	Prove it. Prove that in a competitive market certain goods and
>> services will be MORE expensive than in a Government-as-Supplier.
>
>Ok. Let's use the example of fire stations and insurance companies that came
>up earlier.
>
>What do you suppose the impact on the bottem line will be by increasing the
>amount of non-income-producing-services that such a situation would require?
>Each insurance company would be responsible for many, many stations

	Really, you are saying they couldn't possibly recognize the
benefits of teaming up and co-locating fire stations, or that they wouldn't
sub-contract to a company that handled fires?

>scattered all over the country. This means some sort of centralized
>mechanism to create policies and other procedures and their requisite costs.
>Now, consider what that means to the payment each policy holder is going to
>have to deal with. It's going to be large because it's going to have to take
>up for parts of the company that don't bring in policy income but still
>require service coverage.

	This could still be more effcient than government.

>Now by distributing this system out and assigning it to governments and
>providing equitable service to all, no questions asked they're there we, we
>get a system that is reasonable in cost and provides good responce.

	"reasonable" in cost? There is a LOT if inefficiency in the system
that competition could eliminate.

>> 	How many Corporations you know buy $300 hammers, or $1000 toilet
>> seats?
>
>Lot's of them throw good money after bad. All businesses do. It's human
>nature. I know of one company that got so carried away with spending for
>little dribbles and drips that they ended up having to stop hiring new
>employees that the company desperately needs. I used to work for one,
>Compu-Add, that led to its final demise.

	Read that last bit. They got so carried away, that they spent
themselves out of existence.

	Governments just raise taxes, there is no penalty for ineffcientcy,
or lousy spelling.

>> >capitalist shouldn't begrudge a tidy profit anyone under any situation.
>> 	I don't begrudge a profit where it's due. Bill Clinton isn't due.
>> Neither is Newt Gingrinch, or any other Feeding at the government trough
>> pig.
>Agreed. But the solution is term limits on Congress-critters and a
>re-vamping of some critical laws.

	Ok, so you limit the senators and congressmen, then the unelected
beaureacrats have the power since they know the system and run the system.

>> 	No, the problem is the police. To quote (IIRC) Lydia Lunch:
>>
>> 	"Neo Nazis with night stick dicks, no brains but banging into yours
>> in the middle of the night looking for whatever don't fit in with their
>> ideologically unsound version of reality".
>
>Well I happen to come from that sub-culture so I can speak from experience.
>The majority of times I or my friends were hassled we were asking for it.

	Well, coming from that subculture, and living in areas that allowed
me to observer others, I'd say bullshit.

	Wearing a painted leather jacket & ripped up blue jeans is NOT a
reason to get hauled off the street, searched and questioned.

	Looking different is not illegal.

	Thinking different is not illegal.

>> >That process *is* most certainly an ideal place to inject consideration and
>> >respect for civil liberties and the purvue of government institutions.
>> 	Oh, and that has been working OH SO WELL thus far.
>No, and that's my point.

>> 	No I don't. but check the numbers, there is a $6000 LESS collected
>> in road taxes (average) PER CAR for each car in america. That $6k comes out
>> of my pockets as well,
>
>How the hell do you figure that one? It may come out of YOUR state taxes but
>it certainly doesn't come out of mine (I don't have state taxes). The funds
>for road and such is collected solely through gasoline and auto related
>sales taxes in Texas.

	With a bunch thrown in at the federal level. Federal Matching Funds
& etc.

>Perhaps you should fix your state government...

	Federal, State, County, and City.

>Now if you're talking about the federal taxes for roads, that has NOTHING to
>do with your or my driving vehicles on those roads. It has to do with a
>program implimented in the early 20th century to create a good road net in
>the US for military use. The taxes are justified in principle, if not in
>amount, through commen defense.

	Then why do they keep building them?

>> 	If that is the interpretation, then the document is morally flawed.
>Interpeted?
>We, the People of the United States, in order to form a more perfect Union,
>establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common
>defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to
>ourselves and our Posterity do ordain and establish this Constitution for the
>United States of America.

	Promote != provide.

	Promote does not mean "give away", it means "promote", do things
which incourage.


>> 	How many died at the hands of Stalin, Hitler. and other dictators?
>
>A lot more than at the hand of honest people, which is my point as well.
>These were people, not governments. The citizens willingness to participate
>aided and abetted each and every one of them and weakens your use of them in
>your defence.

	They were the heads of the governments. The skills and abilities it
takes to get to that level insure that the people who get there have no
concern for those underneath them.

>> 	The state, whether here in the US, or in other countries tends to
>> treat the humans that comprise it with little concern for their health or
>> livelyhood,

>Yep, I see lots of that every day. In one hand you complain about welfare
>and then in the other claim that the state is uncaring. Can you please make
>up your mind?

	There is no making up my mind. I never claimed the a government
could or should, rather I am claiming that it can't and won't, and to
expect it to be able to, much less willing to is foolish.

>> 	If you have citizens that are honest, principled, and willing to
>> assist those around them, you have no need for a "state".
>If your process relies on this it's doomed from the get go. This ain't
>Vulcan.

	So we agree that any government is doomed from the start, since
w/out people of honesty and integrity no system will work properly.

>> 	Without honesty and principles you have Slick Willy.

>And Bubba next door as well as that face that stares out at you every
>morning.

	No, that face that stares back from the mirror makes every effort
to be as honest and forthright as it can. It causes grief sometimes, but
it's the principle.

>> 	There are 1.7 million people struck by lightning every year?
>There aren't 1.7M poeple killed in the US by the LEA's. That would be about
>1-in-150. There are several hundred people killed by lightening each year in
>the US. The number of people killed in activity complicent with LEA's is
>probably not a great deal (at most an order of magnitude) over that.

	That 1.7 million is the estimated people who have been killed this
century (170 million) in wars and murdered by governments divided by the
number of years in a century (100) which would give 1.7 million, or is my
math getting that bad?

	I don't see why I should limit my comments on the nature of
government to what I see in this country as there is a wealth of other
experience outside our borders.



--
"To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a
jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a
gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather naďve, and certainly
unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust"
http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html

Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro@playboy.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Albert P. Franco, II" 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 19:22:37 +0800
To: Michael Hohensee 
Subject: Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone(fwd)
In-Reply-To: <5F152E6E8E6FD21195DF00104B2425AD02B276@yarrowbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981110111844.0093ad40@apf2.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I've been lurking on this thread for a while, and I am amazed by the level
of utopist muck that is being spewed here by you. 

Without some government the Bad Guys will be the only ones with anything.
It is only with the threat of losing their power that leaders do good. If
they had no power which could be lost or taken they will always do what's
best for them in the short term, which is usually to shit on the peons.
Dictators (like Pinochet and Gates) do their dirty deeds because they feel
no need to placate the masses. 

This anarcho-capitalist spew is so much crap that the bullshit indicators
are blaring at top volume. If the people can't control a constitutional
government, known for having peacefully free elections for over two hundred
years, then how the hell do think you can convince somebody that the people
are going to be able to control warlords and monopolies. It's called, "You
don't like it? Bang, Bang, you're dead!" 

Try to lift yourself out of the bullshit of your theory and give us at
least one REAL example (current or historic) of a large scale, long lasting
anarcho-capitalist society. Hippie communes are too small, and make sure
it's capitalistic. If you can't think of one in the next year or so then
come back and tell us.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Jim Adler" 
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 04:23:09 +0800
To: 
Subject: Locking physical memory (RAM) under Windows
Message-ID: <001201be0cdf$9a045c90$0a000080@choochoo>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



SCNSM 1.0 Beta, a non-swappable memory allocator for Windows 3.x/95/98, is
available and can be downloaded from

http://soundcode.com/content/download/products/scnsm/default.htm (docs)
http://soundcode.com/content/download/products/scnsm/scnsm10b.zip (source)

The SCNSM driver supports allocation of non-swappable memory on Windows
3.x/95/98. The principal design goal of SCNSM is to provide memory that will
not be swapped to disk, under any circumstances. Typically, security
applications require such memory to store private keys, passwords, and
sensitive intermediate results of cryptographic calculations.

SCNSM uses the same technique as allocating DMA buffers for hardware device
transfers.  The idea being that Windows doesn't swap DMA buffers and
therefore won't swap this buffer either.

The SCNSM source-code is copyrighted freeware.  The intent here is to end
the perennial nuisance of having sensitive security data swapped to disk
which undermines the public's confidence in commercial security products.
Please send any questions or bugs to me or support@soundcode.com.

Jim

================
Jim Adler
Soundcode, Inc.
www.soundcode.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: poc@searchengine-secrets.com
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 10:08:31 +0800
To: 
Subject: Your Web Site location
Message-ID: <199811110137.RAA10828@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 03:17:09 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 11:38 AM -0500 11/10/98, Jim Choate wrote:
>Forwarded message:
>
>> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 01:25:02 +1000
>> From: Reeza! 
>> Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the
>>   Foregone (fwd)
>
>> I think there may be a finer distiction- it lies in corruption of the
>> enforcing body.
>
>Your right, let me spell it out. Free-markets as depicted by
>anarcho-whatever theories legitimize theft, physical violence, extortion,
>etc. They further a priori abandon any precept of social institution and

	Theft, violence and extortion are already legitimate, not only does
the government use them all the time, but corporations and indivuduals do
as well.

>leave it all on the shoulder of the individuals. Additionaly they abandon
>such concepts of justice, equity, etc. because they describe no mechanism

	There is no (or little) justice under the current system. When was
the last time a cop went to jail for a murder that he/she committed while
on duty. Is OJ behind bars?

	We have courts of Law, Justice is ashamed to show her face.

>to handle these issues. And finaly, they don't even attempt to recognize
>the international interactions and cultural differences that drive them.

	We recognize that these interactions exist, but guess what, for any
sort  of anarchy to exist, it has to happen globally. We are as concerned
about the people on the other side of the planet as we are about the people
in the next city over. Just not much.

>They make the same mistake as every other form of non-democratic system,
>they assume because it works for one it works for all.

	No, we assume the opposite, that nothing works for large numbers of
people, and everyone should be free to find their own level.

>> This is the same sort of tactic imho as the war on drugs(tm). Big show,
>> little enforcement, extract money from the money holders. Money exchanges =
>> leniency.
>
>Not even hardly. At least citizens can change the laws under a democracy.
>Under an anarcho-whatever it is strictly lump it or like it unless you're
>willing to fund a bigger gun.

	Riiiighhht. Tell that to Californians who decided that Marjuana
should be part of Doctors tool kit, and the Feds said "prescribe it and
loose your lisence to prescribe".

>> Aside from the comment on honesty, the rest of this reply is sophistry.
>> Petro was asserting a point, which Jim acknowledged, then procedes to
>> assassinate with particulars of questionable relevance. In a true anarchy,
>> who is to say that trade in human lives and stolen property must be stopped
>> in that "true free market"???
>I'm going to stop now, this particular vein of discussion is bereft of any
>and all positive attributes when one tries to justify slavery and theft.

	He was just taking into account different cultural differences.
Some cultures don't have a problem with slavery.

	Personally, given a lack of law enforcement, I'd shoot the
bastards, but then I never claimed to be tolerant of other peoples
cultures.
--
"To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a
jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a
gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather naďve, and certainly
unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust"
http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html

Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro@playboy.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 05:21:30 +0800
To: Robert Hettinga 
Subject: Re: NPR is at it again...
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199811102041.MAA14945@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




>Some commie law professor broad :-) is talking about how there oughtta be a
>law against anonymous remailers, deja news, and various forms of "illegal"
>email...
>The ganglia twitch...

like hotmail and yahoo mail??? these are *awesome* remailers. I picked
up a yahoo mail account recently and am blown away with all the *FEATURES*!!
separate folders, filtering, external mailboxes support through POP,
binary attachments, my gosh!!!!! my cup runneth over, for free, TOTALLY
ANONYMOUS   check it out cpunks, a cpunk wet dream!!

trust me on this one, it's not going away. it's a LUCRATIVE
business worth millions a year.

there was a recent conference under a year ago (or more, maybe I can't
remember) by the AAAS (am. assoc. adv. science) on anonymity with
academics/papers/talks and everything. did anyone check that out?
do they have a web page???

and stop twitching your ganglia, it's really creepy!!!





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 08:08:59 +0800
To: Cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Off Topic But Truly Beautiful (fwd )
In-Reply-To: <3648A1A9.7DE1@lsil.com>
Message-ID: <3648ABF9.515D@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Clyde wrote:
> 
> Long but fascinating...
> 
>     ---------------------------------------------------------------
> 
>     9 November 1998
> 
>     DATELINE--Tallahassee, Fla.
>     Oranges that get you high
>     ===========================
> 
>     A Florida Biochemist designs a citrus tree with THC.
> 
>     In the summer of 1984, 10th-grader Irwin Nanofsky and a
>     friend were driving down the Apalachee Parkway on the way
>     home from baseball practice when they were pulled over by
>     a police officer for a minor traffic infraction.
> 
>     After Nanofsky produced his driver's license the police
>     officer asked permission to search the vehicle. In less
>     than two minutes, the officer found a homemade pipe
>     underneath the passenger's seat of the Ford Aerostar
>     belonging to the teenage driver's parents. The minivan
>     was seized, and the two youths were taken into custody on
>     suspicion of drug possession.
> 
>     Illegal possession of drug paraphernalia ranks second
>     only to open container violations on the crime blotter of
>     this Florida college town. And yet the routine arrest of
>     16 year-old Nanofsky and the seizure of his family's
>     minivan would inspire one of the most controversial
>     drug-related scientific discoveries of the century.
> 
>     Meet Hugo Nanofsky, biochemist, Florida State University
>     tenured professor, and the parental authority who posted
>     bail for Irwin Nanofsky the night of July 8, 1984. The
>     elder Nanofsky wasn't pleased that his son had been
>     arrested for possession of drug paraphernalia, and he
>     became livid when Tallahassee police informed him that
>     the Aerostar minivan would be permanently remanded to
>     police custody.
> 
>     Over the course of the next three weeks, Nanofsky penned
>     dozens of irate letters to the local police chief, the
>     Tallahassee City Council, the State District Attorney
>     and, finally, even to area newspapers. But it was all to
>     no avail.
> 
>     Under advisement of the family lawyer, Irwin Nanofsky
>     pled guilty to possession of drug paraphernalia in order
>     to receive a suspended sentence and have his juvenile
>     court record sealed. But in doing so, the family minivan
>     became "an accessory to the crime." According to Florida
>     State law, it also became the property of the Tallahassee
>     Police Department Drug Task Force. In time, the adult
>     Nanofsky would learn that there was nothing he could do
>     legally to wrest the vehicle from the hands of the state.
> 
>     It was in the fall of 1984 that         Biochem 101: How to
>     John Chapman Professor of               design a
>     Biochemistry at Florida State           Cannabis-equivalent
>     University, now driving to work         citrus plant
>     behind the wheel of a used Pontiac
>     Bonneville, first set on a pet          Step One:
>     project that he hoped would             Biochemically
>     "dissolve irrational legislation        isolate all the
>     with a solid dose of reason."           required enzymes for
>     Nanofsky knew he would never get        the production of
>     his family's car back, but he had       THC.
>     plans to make sure that no one
>     else would be pulled through the        Step Two:
>     gears of what he considers a            Perform N-terminal
>     Kafka-esque drug enforcement            sequencing on
>     bureaucracy.                            isolated enzymes,
>                                             design degenerate
>     "It's quite simple, really,"            PCR (polymerase
>     Nanofsky explains, "I wanted to         chain reaction)
>     combine Citrus sinesis with Delta       primers and amplify
>     9-tetrahydrocannabinol." In             the genes.
>     layman's terms, the respected
>     college professor proposed to grow      Step Three:
>     oranges that would contain THC,         Clone genes into an
>     the active ingredient in                agrobacterial vector
>     marijuana. Fourteen years later,        by introducing the
>     that project is complete, and           desired piece of DNA
>     Nanofsky has succeeded where his        into a plasmid containing
>     letter writing campaign of yore         a transfer or T-DNA.
>     failed: he has the undivided            The mixture is transformed
>     attention of the nation's top drug      into Agrobacterium
>     enforcement agencies, political         tumefaciens, a gram
>     figures, and media outlets.             negative bacterium.
> 
>     The turning point in the Nanofsky       Step Four:
>     saga came when the straight-laced       Use the Agrobacterium
>     professor posted a message to           tumefaciens to infect citrus
>     Internet newsgroups announcing          plants after wounding. The
>     that he was offering                    transfer DNA will proceed
>     "cannabis-equivalent orange tree        to host cells by a mechanism
>     seeds" at no cost via the U.S.          similar to conjugation.
>     mail. Several weeks later, U.S.         The DNA is randomly
>     Justice Department officials            integrated into the
>     showed up at the mailing address        host genome and will
>     used in the Internet announcement:      be inherited.
>     a tiny office on the second floor
>     of the Dittmer Laboratory of
>     Chemistry building on the FSU campus. There they would wait
>     for another 40 minutes before Prof. Nanofsky finished
>     delivering a lecture to graduate students on his recent
>     research into the "cis-trans photoisomerization of olefins."
> 
>     "I knew it was only a matter of time before someone sent
>     me more than just a self-addressed stamped envelope,"
>     Nanofsky quips, "but I was surprised to see Janet Reno's
>     special assistant at my door." After a series of closed
>     door discussions, Nanofsky agreed to cease distribution
>     of the THC-orange seeds until the legal status of the
>     possibly narcotic plant species is established.
> 
>     Much to the chagrin of authorities, the effort to
>     regulate Nanofsky's invention may be too little too late.
>     Several hundred packets containing 40 to 50 seeds each
>     have already been sent to those who've requested them,
>     and Nanofsky is not obliged to produce his mailing
>     records. Under current law, no crime has been committed
>     and it is unlikely that charges will be brought against
>     the fruit's inventor.
> 
>     Now it is federal authorities who must confront the
>     nation's unwieldy body of inconsistent drug laws.
>     According to a source at the Drug Enforcement Agency, it
>     may be months if not years before all the issues involved
>     are sorted out, leaving a gaping hole in U.S. drug policy
>     in the meantime. At the heart of the confusion is the
>     fact that THC now naturally occurs in a new species of
>     citrus fruit.
> 
>     As policy analysts and hemp advocates alike have been
>     quick to point out, the apparent legality (for now) of
>     Nanofsky's "pot orange" may render debates over the
>     legalization of marijuana moot. In fact, Florida's top
>     law enforcement officials admit that even if the
>     cultivation of Nanofsky's orange were to be outlawed, it
>     would be exceedingly difficult to identify the presence
>     of outlawed fruit among the state's largest agricultural
>     crop.
> 
>     Amidst all of the hubbub surrounding his father's
>     experiment, Irwin Nanofsky exudes calm indifference. Now
>     30-years-old and a successful environmental photographer,
>     the younger Nanofsky can't understand what all of the
>     fuss is about. "My dad's a chemist. He makes polymers. I
>     doubt it ever crossed his mind that as a result of his
>     work tomorrow's kids will be able to get high off of half
>     an orange."
> 
>     Copyright 1994-98 San Francisco Bay Guardian.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 06:09:58 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Clinton Wants Loophole In U.S. Free Speech Closed
Message-ID: <199811102122.NAA18762@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: oldbat 
Subject: IP: Clinton Wants Loophole In U.S. Free Speech Closed
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 12:48:25 -0500
To: IP 

http://dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/ts/story.html?s=v/nm/19981107/ts/guns_3.html
 
> WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Clinton directed his government Saturday to
> find a way to close a legal loophole that allows speakers/journalists to
> express their ideas at public places with no questions asked.
> In his weekly radio address, Clinton said a ``dangerous trend'' is emerging
> at seminars and radio talk shows because the First Amendment permits people
> to express their ideas without background checks.
> ``Some of these talk shows have become a heaven for criminals and hate
> speech mongers looking to sway people on a no-questions-asked basis,''
> Clinton said.
> He directed Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin and Attorney General Janet Reno
> to report back to him in 60 days with a plan to close the loophole in the
> Bill of Rights and to prohibit any free speech without a background check.
> ``I believe this should be the law of the land: No background check, no free
> speech, no exceptions,'' Clinton said.
> In a fact sheet, the White House said that every week about 35 million
> people regularly listen to an estimated 50 conservative radio personalities
> such as Rush Limbaugh and G. Gordon Liddy.
> On Nov. 30, 1999 the FBI's National Instant Criminal Background Check System
> is set to take effect to allow quicker checks and approve speech licenses
> sales within minutes.
> In addition, on Nov. 30, 1999 the law will be strengthened in two ways:
> purchases of all speech licenses, not just political, will be subject to
> Reno background checks as will Kinko's printing services, which are four
> times as likely to involve a prohibited printed opinions.
> Overall, the White House said, it is estimated that the number of background
> checks conducted nationally will increase from 0 million to between 10 and
> 12 million.
> Unregulated speech are ``an open invitation to criminals and right wing
> crazies,'' said Janet Reno, who chairs SpeechControl Inc. The Clinton law
> was named after the President, who was wounded in verbal attacks first
> launched by radio personality Rush Limbaugh in 1992.
> California and Maryland regulate ``hate speech'', said Reno. Florida voters
> passed a constitutional amendment Tuesday giving counties the power to
> require a waiting period and a background check for speech at public places.



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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 06:08:03 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IPINFO: Re: IP: Clinton Wants Loophole In U.S. Free Speech Closed
Message-ID: <199811102122.NAA18772@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IPINFO: Re: IP: Clinton Wants Loophole In U.S. Free Speech Closed
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 13:08:39 -0600
To: oldbat , ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com

NOTICE TO LISTEES:

If you are forwarding materials to the IP list that include URLs, *PLEASE*
check them for accuracy before posting.

Regarding:
--------------------------
>>Subject: IP: Clinton Wants Loophole In U.S. Free Speech Closed
>>http://dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/ts/story.html?s=v/nm/19981107/ts/guns
_3.html
>>
>> WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Clinton directed his government
Saturday to
>> find a way to close a legal loophole that allows speakers/journalists to
>> express their ideas at public places with no questions asked.
--------------------------

The above "story" is either a spoof of satire, or else an incorrect URL was
given to accompany the article.  If you access the link above you DO NOT
find a story about free speech, but rather, the material below.  If
materials you send are not factual but are humorous or satirical in nature,
please note that for the readers so we don't have a bunch of unfounded
rumors floating around about new draconian measures that were actually only
jokes to begin with.  If there is a real story about Clinton's opposition
to free speech, someone please send the correct URL.  Here is the REAL
story that accompanies the link above:

Saturday November 7 12:46 PM ET 

Clinton Wants Loophole In U.S. Gun Law Closed

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Clinton directed his government Saturday
to find a way to close a legal loophole that allows dealers to sell guns at
gun shows with no questions asked.

In his weekly radio address, Clinton said a ``dangerous trend'' is emerging
at gun shows because the Brady handgun control law permits some firearms to
be sold without background checks at these shows.

``Some of these gun shows have become illegal arms bazaars for criminals
and gun traffickers looking to buy and sell guns on a cash-and-carry,
no-questions-asked basis,'' Clinton said. 

He directed Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin and Attorney General Janet Reno
to report back to him in 60 days with a plan to close the loophole and
prohibit any gun sale without a background check.

``I believe this should be the law of the land: No background check, no
gun, no exceptions,'' Clinton said.

In a fact sheet, the White House said that every year about 5 million
people attend an estimated 5,000 gun shows at convention centers, school
gyms and on fairgrounds.

The Brady law requires a five-day waiting period for gun purchasers in
order for a background check. On Nov. 30, the FBI's National Instant
Criminal Background Check System is set to take effect to allow quicker
checks and approve gun sales within minutes.

In addition, on Nov. 30 the law will be strengthened in two ways: purchases
of all firearms, not just handguns, will be subject to Brady background
checks as will pawnshop redemptions, which are four times as likely to
involve a prohibited purchase.

Overall, the White House said, it is estimated that the number of
background checks conducted nationally will increase from 4 million to
between 10 and 12 million.

Unregulated sales at gun shows were ``an open invitation to criminals,''
said Sarah Brady, who chairs Handgun Control Inc. The Brady law was named
after her husband, James Brady, who was wounded in an attack on President
Ronald Reagan in 1981.

California and Maryland regulate ``flea market'' gun sales, said Brady.
Florida voters passed a constitutional amendment Tuesday giving counties
the power to require a waiting period and a background check for sales at
gun shows and other public places. 

  Copyright (c) 1998 Reuters Limited. 
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------


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     majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com
with the message:
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Frank O'Dwyer" 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 22:14:18 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: fuck copyright (Re: Advertising Creepiness) (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199811100539.XAA16120@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <36483E87.E735E257@brd.ie>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate wrote:
> > You can make money from information provision by charging extra for
> > up-to-date news, or by charging so little that the cost from the
> > original provider is so low that it's not worth anyones time to
> > redistribute it,
> 
> That's true now, why don't we see these effects...

We do. News inherently has a 'sell-by' date. The most obvious example is
stock quotes where delayed quotes are provided for free whereas
real-time quotes are heavily charged for. The recipients of such
information care very much about latency, since it's possible to trade
on any differences that may exist. There's even some research on attacks
that simply delay packets in such networks.

Cheers,
Frank O'Dwyer.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Burnes 
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 04:06:08 +0800
To: Adam Back 
Subject: Re: charity at the point of a gun (Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone) (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199811100027.AAA07402@server.eternity.org>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Tue, 10 Nov 1998, Adam Back wrote:

> 
> Christopher Petro writes:
> > 	In other words Jim, Fuck You. I, and I'd bet most people here,

Don't split hairs, Petro.  Tell us what you really think. ;-)

> > including Mr. May, are perfectly willing, and hell even eager to pay their
> > share, to assume their social responcibility, they just get very, very
> > angry at having to pay OTHER peoples social responcibility, and get very,
> > very angry at having to pay for other shit (Senate Luncheons and Swimming
> > Pools, the Militaries greatly inflated budget, all the waste that is todays
> > federal government).
> 
> What is annoying is "charity" (social security) at the point of a gun.
> Our "conscience" is being decided by government which is acting as a
> broker for those lobby for their "need" and for your assets to be
> stolen and redistributed to them.
> 

(1) Social transfer payments at the point of a gun are involuntary
compassion.

(2) Involutary compassion is usually called rape.  You are forcing
me to "love" some other person.  To adopt them not only as a proxy
family member, but as one that cannot be "cutoff" if they waste
my charity.  Of course I must not only pay for them, but I must
pay for the bureaucrat that manages this family member.

Combine this with the US Govt defining a sex life as a "right"
(witness free Viagra) and you come up with some pretty 
chilling scenarios.

(do people have the "right" to a sex partner?)

Apparently involuntary compassion at gunpoint is not beyond
justification by the US fed govt and the propagandized sheeple.

Whats to stop rape of selected human beings by agents of
the federal government?  (ok, maybe thats going a little
too far

Rape by proxy, thats the federal government for you.

jim








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 07:26:37 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Off Topic But Truly Beautiful
Message-ID: <3648B332.19DA@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I didn't think of this before but add together bees, wind and rampant
tree sex and this stuff will definitely spread. It could even become a
bit of a "problem".

The people who have packets of seeds should distribute those quickly to
friends before the buggerers get the mailing list and start confiscating
seeds.

BTW - I believe that citrus hybridize freely, rather like mentha in that
respect.

Wild and cool. I think he should do apples next. Then strawberries.
Peaches. Beans. A whole fucking farmer's market.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 04:06:10 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: NPR is at it again...
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Some commie law professor broad :-) is talking about how there oughtta be a
law against anonymous remailers, deja news, and various forms of "illegal"
email...

The ganglia twitch...

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Pramote J." 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 17:28:29 +0800
To: fight-censorship@vorlon.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Child-Molesting Forger's Chilling Confession!!!1!
Message-ID: <199811100850.PAA04184@ratree.psu.ac.th>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Encrypted_Message=On 4 May 1998 02:57:07 GMT, in article <6ijaq3$bb1@news1.panix.com>,
 Information Security (= Guy Polis ) wrote:
#   Guy Polis (guy@panix.com, eviljay@bway.net) is a pedophile child
#   molester who was fired from his consulting position at Salomon Brothers
#   after he was caught masturbating in his cubicle at the child pornography
#   JPEGs that he downloaded from the Internet.

The poster's been awful quiet lately - did the feds arrest him?
Browser=Netscape:Mozilla/3.04Gold (Win95; I)
Remedy=Tell the world




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Pramote J." 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 17:25:36 +0800
To: fight-censorship@vorlon.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Child-Molesting Forger's Chilling Confession!!!1!
Message-ID: <199811100851.PAA04207@ratree.psu.ac.th>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Encrypted_Message=On 4 May 1998 02:57:07 GMT, in article <6ijaq3$bb1@news1.panix.com>,
 Information Security (= Guy Polis ) wrote:
#   Guy Polis (guy@panix.com, eviljay@bway.net) is a pedophile child
#   molester who was fired from his consulting position at Salomon Brothers
#   after he was caught masturbating in his cubicle at the child pornography
#   JPEGs that he downloaded from the Internet.

The poster's been awful quiet lately - did the feds arrest him?
Browser=Netscape:Mozilla/3.04Gold (Win95; I)
Remedy=Tell the world




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Pramote J." 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 17:34:24 +0800
To: fight-censorship@vorlon.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Child-Molesting Forger's Chilling Confession!!!1!
Message-ID: <199811100851.PAA04223@ratree.psu.ac.th>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Encrypted_Message=On 4 May 1998 02:57:07 GMT, in article <6ijaq3$bb1@news1.panix.com>,
 Information Security (= Guy Polis ) wrote:
#   Guy Polis (guy@panix.com, eviljay@bway.net) is a pedophile child
#   molester who was fired from his consulting position at Salomon Brothers
#   after he was caught masturbating in his cubicle at the child pornography
#   JPEGs that he downloaded from the Internet.

The poster's been awful quiet lately - did the feds arrest him?
Browser=Netscape:Mozilla/3.04Gold (Win95; I)
Remedy=Tell the world




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Hohensee 
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 08:01:55 +0800
To: "Albert P. Franco, II" 
Message-ID: <3648A8A0.46A41EFC@nyu.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Albert P. Franco, II wrote:
> 
> I've been lurking on this thread for a while, and I am amazed by the level
> of utopist muck that is being spewed here by you.

I love you, too.

> Without some government the Bad Guys will be the only ones with anything.
> It is only with the threat of losing their power that leaders do good. If
> they had no power which could be lost or taken they will always do what's
> best for them in the short term, which is usually to shit on the peons.
> Dictators (like Pinochet and Gates) do their dirty deeds because they feel
> no need to placate the masses.

If they wield no real power, and proceed to do whatever is best for them
in the short term, they will be screwing themselves over in the long
term (or short term, if doing what they want results in someone shooting
them in self defense).

And precisely what dirty deeds has Mr. Gates ever done?  Excluding those
actions in which the judicious use of state regulation was involved.

> This anarcho-capitalist spew is so much crap that the bullshit indicators
> are blaring at top volume. If the people can't control a constitutional
> government, known for having peacefully free elections for over two hundred
> years, then how the hell do think you can convince somebody that the people
> are going to be able to control warlords and monopolies. It's called, "You
> don't like it? Bang, Bang, you're dead!"

Yah, and then somebody else points a gun at Mr. would-be warlord and
goes Bang, Bang, he's dead  (it's unsafe having warlords about --sorta
like scorpions).  That is, if Mr. would-be manages to shoot me without
being shot himself.

> Try to lift yourself out of the bullshit of your theory and give us at
> least one REAL example (current or historic) of a large scale, long lasting
> anarcho-capitalist society. Hippie communes are too small, and make sure
> it's capitalistic. If you can't think of one in the next year or so then
> come back and tell us.

It hasn't happened yet.  But then, neither had the USA, before 1776. 
The above is not a reasonable argument.

You can, of course, as me how it *could* happen.  And unfortunately,
you're partially correct, it couldn't happen under current conditions. 
The amount of personal firepower that is easily accessible by everyone
is not sufficient to back up the soverignity of each individual.  It's
all linked to whether weapons technology is such that individuals can
operate weapons which are just as effective as those wielded by highly
trained and specialized groups.  The pendulum of weapons tech. swings
back and forth over time.  During the American Revolution, the pendulum
was on the side of individuals, as can be shown by the fact that the
revolutionaries were carrying better weapons than those carried by
professional soldiers, and could use them to equal or larger effect.

Today, of course, the pendulum is on the other side.  Tanks, fighter
planes, aircraft carriers, etc are where it's at.  Read "Weapons Systems
and Political Stability" by Carroll Quigley, for an interesting analysis
on the subject.  

Of course, the pendulum keeps on swinging, and there are some
indications that it's moving back.  For example, anti-aircraft missiles
have gotten so small that they can be carried by one man.  In any modern
war, planes had better be damned careful of what they fly over, lest
they get a missile up their rears.

So, all we need right now is to produce either a convienient
impenetrable shield, or perhaps high-energy weapons.  When one man can
take out a tank with an inexpensive handweapon, we'll be all set. :)

Michael Hohensee




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Hohensee 
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 05:27:16 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone(fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199811101334.HAA17420@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <3648AA84.55E32DEB@nyu.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate wrote:
>  
> Explain how the system works. Explain how the various systems operate, how
> the costs are calculated, and how they're paid. I want to see the same level
> of *specificity* that I and others have agreed to provide you in our
> examples.

Do you have any idea what you're asking for?

Quite frankly, I do not have the time (nor the space) to explain to you,
in detail, how an entire civilization operates.  In fact, any attempt by
me to explain such a system would fail, since there are doubtless many
innovations which specialists in the respective fields would make, and
there are many more which have already been made, which I am not
necessarilly aware of.

I have already offered you explainations of how some systems might
operate --the fire dept./insurance company situation, for example.  That
was in the sections you snipped for not answering "any questions that
have been posed".  I suggest you go back and read them, if you missed it
the first time.

I can, however, direct you to a book which deals with the subject in
some detail.  It's called "The Market for Liberty", by an author who's
name eludes me at the moment.  If you're really interested in the
answers to your above questions, I suggest you go read it.  If you need
the name of the author to find it, I'm sure I can look it up for you and
give it to you within a day or so.

> We want an answer not some glib off the shoulder quip.

As I said, read the part of my previous post that you didn't bother to
address.

> [I'm deleting the rest of this since it doesn't answer any questions that
> have been posed to the anarcho-whatever side]
> 

Then you haven't been reading very closely.

Michael Hohensee




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 06:57:16 +0800
To: Michael Hohensee 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 4:05 PM -0500 11/10/98, Michael Hohensee wrote:
>Jim Choate wrote:
>> [I'm deleting the rest of this since it doesn't answer any questions that
>> have been posed to the anarcho-whatever side]
>Then you haven't been reading very closely.

	That has already been established.
--
"To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a
jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a
gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather naďve, and certainly
unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust"
http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html

Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro@playboy.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Hohensee 
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 06:02:59 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: How to solve the tax problem w/o anarchy or force (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199811101323.HAA17131@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <3648B194.AB83423C@nyu.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate wrote:
> 
> Forwarded message:
> 
> > Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 09:08:11 -0500
> > From: Soren 
> > Subject: Re: How to solve the tax problem w/o anarchy or force (fwd)
> 
> > 
This also provides an outlet for the social do-gooders to create their
> > utopias by vastly inflating those taxes associated with less favored consumables
> 
> Hm, interesting choice of terms for comparison. So you're admitting that
> anarcho-whatever isn't a social do-gooder, the intent is not to make the
> system better or more equitable.

No, the intent *is* to make the system better and more equitable.  It's
just that we don't favor the socialist definition of "equitable".

We support voluntary systems, not coercive ones.

> Rather you're admitting, apparently
> tacitly, that the goal of the anarcho-whatever is personal rather than
> social improvement. There is also a further tacit admission with this
> system won't address the social ills that plague us currently.

Except that it's personal improvement for *everyone* (except for tyrants
and other politicans, but we didn't like them much anyway).

> I must admit I'm impressed. In a couple of days I've run across two seperate
> anarcho-whatever supporters who admit their proposal won't address the
> social ills but rather leaves them up to chance. That's more than in the
> last 20 years.

Our proposals do not leave things up to chance any more than the current
system does.  In fact, it can be argued that our system leaves less up
to chance than yours does.  Lets do a comparative analysis.

In today's system:

1:  	Social Ill exists.
2: 	Social Ill is identified by someone.
3:	That someone makes a lot of noise, and lobbies the state to supply
money to finance the correction of the Social Ill.  This is done by
convincing a majority of voters in some election or other, which may not
take place for at least a year, that this Social Ill is very important
--more important than all the other Social Ills.
4:	Someone who wants the Social Ill corrected gets into power, and
proceeds to try to correct the Social Ill with a huge rumbling
centralized governmental machine.  This often excacerbates the Social
Ill, rather than correcting it.

The net result:  The Social Ill is not likely to be corrected until the
next election, and will be paid for by taking more money away from
everyone else (since the state gets its money from taxpayers, and cannot
create value out of thin air).  Even worse, the person lobbying for the
correction of the Social Ill may not get into power, since he may have
lost the election to someone who used lots of money to make him look
bad.  Thus, the Social Ill may not get corrected for some time, if ever.

Under a truly free system:

1:	Social Ill exists.
2:	Social Ill is identified by someone.
3:	That someone makes a lot of noise, alerting everyone else to the
existance of this Social Ill.  Those who agree with the first someone
will contribute time, money, and resources to correcting this Social
Ill.  
4:	Social Ill is dealt with in the most effective manner possible, since
people will be free to try to correct it in any number of ways, and will
of course prefer to contribute their money to an effort that has the
best effect.

This is an improvement upon today's system.  We no longer need to have
the majority of voters approval to start correcting the Social Ill.  All
we need is a group of people who are willing to support the correction
of the Social Ill.  This makes the most sense, since we obviously don't
need to draw on *everyone'* resources to correct every Social Ill.  (of
course, some rare Social Ills will be that large, but the larger the
Social Ill, the more people wil recognize it as such.)

Better yet, frivilous problems (i.e. those invented for the advancement
of some politician's career, or out of sheer stupidity) will not have
large amounts of resources wasted upon them.  Only the most blind and
stupid of people would contribute to the correction of nonexistant
Social Ills (of course, that is their right, but at least nobody else
will have to waste their money, if they don't wish to).

So, is it now clear to you why your above statement was somewhat
premature?

Michael Hohensee




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 07:30:55 +0800
To: "Albert P. Franco, II" 
Subject: Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the   Foregone(fwd)
In-Reply-To: <36484ED1.6F3B9F1E@workmail.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




At 4:43 PM -0500 11/10/98, Albert P. Franco, II wrote:


I left the good ol' USA too. I now live in a European country with a strong
socialistic government and I actually find very little interference in my
day to day life. In fact there seems to be a much higher awareness that
each

	Crap. They take 60+ percent of your income in taxes, that means
that they take 60+ percent of your working day.

	They (at least france) throw up HUGE barriers to anyone wanting to
start a business, especially if they will need to hire workers. This not
only makes it difficult for you to start a business (which would never
happen since you've indicated you like someone else making decisions for
you) but also increases unemployment (prevents others from creating jobs
rather than just begging for them).


individual is responsible for his and her actions. At the very least there
aren't as many lawyers claiming everyone is a victim of something or
another (ie. too hot coffee, slippery floors, home owners that shot the
poor intruder who didn't get a warning first, etc.)


	Of course not, it's the states fault.


Ain't no where perfect, anarcho-whatever was done about 4000 years ago, I
generally prefer to look forward...

	So, the fact that it hasn't been tried in 4000 years means it will
never work?

	I guess it's a good thing the wright brothers didn't take that
attitude, nor Robert Goddard.
--
"To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a
jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a
gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather naďve, and certainly
unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust"
http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html

Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro@playboy.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: rsriram@krdl.org.sg (R Sriram)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 17:25:08 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Papers and tutorials on ECC.
Message-ID: <199811100857.QAA29789@aquila.iss.nus.sg>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




FYI:
There are some good tutorials and papers on ECC at
http://www.certicom.com/ecc




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 08:06:25 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811102345.RAA20475@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 09:38:55 +1000
> From: Reeza! 
> Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the (fwd)

> >Like I said, at least your more honest than the rest of these wanna-be
> >thieves.
> 
> Your earlier reply on honesty was to Petro, I think you are confusing me
> with him.

Then the two of you are more honest than most of the anarcho-whatever folks
I've come across.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 08:16:14 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Off Topic But Truly Beautiful (fwd ) (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811102347.RAA20592@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 13:11:21 -0800
> From: Michael Motyka 
> Subject: Off Topic But Truly Beautiful (fwd )

> >     A Florida Biochemist designs a citrus tree with THC.

Geesh, it's about time. I was wondering what the hell was taking these folks
so long to map those mechanisms over into other organisms.

Good for him!


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 10:04:37 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: most of what govts do can be done by business, and donebetter (Re: How to solve the tax problem w/o anarchy or force)
In-Reply-To: <199811100157.RAA05844@netcom13.netcom.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 3:39 PM -0500 11/10/98, Adam Back wrote:
>Vladimir Nuri writes:

>> well consider things like roads,
>
>if you don't drive you shouldn't have to pay for them.

>> libertarians tend to be awfully realistic some times. who pays for
>> roads when everyone uses them?
>
>don't pay not allowed to use.  not everyone uses them to drive cars
>on.

	Roads are the easiest (assuming a government model) things to apply
road use taxes to, simply tax gasoline, oil, and tires. Scale your tire tax
based on weight and apply it to bicycles as well, then everyone (execpt
peds) who uses pays.
--
"To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a
jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a
gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather naďve, and certainly
unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust"
http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html

Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro@playboy.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 08:59:09 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811110037.SAA20949@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 10:40:16 -0500
> From: Petro 
> Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone
>  (fwd)

> 	No, I am saying that since EVERY government at one time or another
> treats its citizens like roaches, it's time to radically change the nature
> of it so that it basically can't be called a government any more.

The problem isn't government, it's the people who enforce the government
that abuse it.

> >Well actualy it's whether it has a tax stamp whether you sell it out of a
> >storefront or a truckbed is irrelevent. Considering the number of people wh=

> 	Wanna bet?

Absolutely. I happen to know a whole passel of beer, wine, and liqour
makers. Austin as aswim in micro-breweries. I'd be more than happy to pass
your email address to the enibriated set and let them argue the point with
you.

> 	Most states have fairly strict laws concerning where liquor can be
> sold.

Actualy it's not the states (at least Texas and Louisiana), it's the local
cities. The state of Texas doesn't care as long as you pay your liquor
license and don't sell to minors and obey the local zoning ordinances.

Texas Alchohol and Drug Abuse Commission
9001 N. IH-35, #105, 78753
512-349-6600

Texas Attorney General Office
Taxation: 512-463-2002

Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission
512-458-2500

> 	Which is completely irrelevant as to wheter or not it is currently
> black market or not, which is the context I was working in.
> 
> 	Stay on target.

I am on target. The fact that a unregulated alcohol industry led to death,
debilitation, and financial hardship justified the imposition of regulation
on alcohol and its related operations.

You just don't want the entire picture painted because it cast a harsh light
on the premise that un-regulated economies are good things.

> >Not necessarily. The doctor has to have a medicaly supportable reason to
> >dispence those drugs. Otherwise it's just as black market as Joe's.
> 
> 	Quibble Quibble. You know EXACTLY what I meant.

Yeah, you meant to commit an act of ommission so that your position looks
more favorable than it actualy does.

> >Didn't think of theft? Jesus H. Christ, you gotta be on Joe's drugs. The
> >vast majority of material sold on *ANY* black market is stolen from its
> >rightful owner. It is *the* example of black market trading that most folks
> >think of first.
> 
> 	No, the vast majority (in terms of dollars) of stuff sold on the
> black market is Drugs.

Really? Drugs are what $10B US a year or so. I bet stolen automobiles when
taken as a whole gross more loss than that. And what makes you think that
the vast majority of that drugs aren't purchased at the street level with
funds gotten from theft? The drugs may not be stolen, the dollar that they
were bought with was in most cases.

> 	Treat theft like any other economic activity, and figure out how to
> make it unprofitable.

Let me know when you figure that one out.

> >How the hell do you sell something on the black market if you don't have
> >possession of it? And exactly who is going to prosecute anyone for
> 
> 	Easy, it's called a Con.
> 
> 	Seriously tho, I said that the _selling_ of stolen goods might not
> be illegal, but the possesion of such things, and the stealing of them are
> seperate acts to the selling of them.

Still doesn't answer my question.

> 	There isn't a need to. Shoot them.

Ah, so you admit that the general mechanism to settle inter-personal dispute
under your plan is to allow people to run around shooting each other.

Well, at least we've got an honest admission that murder would be legal in
this system.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 09:15:48 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811110052.SAA21018@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 11:13:07 -0500
> From: Petro 
> Subject: Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone
>  (fwd)

> 	Really, you are saying they couldn't possibly recognize the
> benefits of teaming up and co-locating fire stations, or that they wouldn't
> sub-contract to a company that handled fires?

So, you want to sub-contract out which is going to raise the cost and
doesn't alleviate the insurance company from regulatory and supply issues.
It'd cost a fortune.

> 	This could still be more effcient than government.

I'd love to see your cost breakdown...

> 	"reasonable" in cost? There is a LOT if inefficiency in the system
> that competition could eliminate.

Yep, and a lot of people the competition would eliminate as well. I'll live
with the inefficiency as long as the cost is affordable for the quality of
service delivered. I don't mind fireman sitting around eating bar-b-q unless
somebodies house burns down.

> 	Read that last bit. They got so carried away, that they spent
> themselves out of existence.

That is one example, I know of several fortune 100 companies that are equaly
extravagant. The problem with Compu-Add was they shot their whole wad.

> 	Governments just raise taxes, there is no penalty for ineffcientcy,
> or lousy spelling.

Sure there is, it just takes longer than a rifle bullet to settle.

> 	Ok, so you limit the senators and congressmen, then the unelected
> beaureacrats have the power since they know the system and run the system.

Not at all, they are limited in what they can do by the laws. It's not like
they're running around sending bills to people out of the blue and making up
the system as they go along. Despite your protestations to the contrary the
system just don't work that way.

> 	Wearing a painted leather jacket & ripped up blue jeans is NOT a
> reason to get hauled off the street, searched and questioned.

If it happened to you and you didn't file a harrassment complaint then you
got what you deserved. If you don't use the system it won't work.

Never happened to me or anyone I knew unless they were in particular places
at particular times. If a cop busts people at a corner every nite for
breaking the law it isn't the cops fault, it's the stupid people who keep
doing the same damn thing at the same place knowing full well the consequences.

> 	Looking different is not illegal.
> 
> 	Thinking different is not illegal.

Nobody said it was and it isn't. Now if you happen to fit the description of
another perp well that's just too damn bad.

> 	With a bunch thrown in at the federal level. Federal Matching Funds
> & etc.

Oh, malarky (and stay away from my business books). It's obvious you never
do accounting. The matching funds are for roads outside of the city or for
highways that transit cities. They are not supposed to be used for city
street or FM or RM roads.

> 	Then why do they keep building them?

Because we still hav an Army whose job it is to defend this country you
nit-wit. If we didn't keep fixing them and expanding the system as people
move around and expand the Army might find it a tad hard to do their job
when called to it. And yes, I know the Militia is the one who is supposed
to be called in for that sort of stuff - that's a whole other topic.

> 	Promote does not mean "give away", it means "promote", do things
> which incourage.

Absolutely. While I agree that there are some particular issues that need
fixing in a major way that is not the same (as you would have us believe) as
saying as a result the whole system should be scrapped.

> 	They were the heads of the governments. The skills and abilities it
> takes to get to that level insure that the people who get there have no
> concern for those underneath them.

Oh, you mean insanity, egotism, neurosis, etc.?

> 	There is no making up my mind. I never claimed the a government
> could or should, rather I am claiming that it can't and won't, and to
> expect it to be able to, much less willing to is foolish.

Ah, but it does try and in some cases it succeeds. So my expectation is not
completely without merit.

> 	So we agree that any government is doomed from the start, since
> w/out people of honesty and integrity no system will work properly.

No, *all* people are not such. Most people I know are honest and have
integrity. What has to happen is a set of checks and balances, which we are
admittedly short of at the moment. The system isn't perfect, never claimed
to be (read the 1st paragraph if the Constitution), and if it remains so
then it's *OUR* fault and not the systems.

> 	No, that face that stares back from the mirror makes every effort
> to be as honest and forthright as it can. It causes grief sometimes, but
> it's the principle.

You claim to be honest yet promote a system that allows slavery, murder,
theft, and other horrendous crimes against man....


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 09:21:51 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811110057.SAA21081@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 16:40:11 -0500
> From: Petro 
> Subject: Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the   
>  Foregone(fwd)

> I left the good ol' USA too. I now live in a European country with a strong
> socialistic government and I actually find very little interference in my
> day to day life. In fact there seems to be a much higher awareness that
> each

I find very little interference in my daily life as well (except when one of
you anarcho-cooks starts dropping bombs and threatening people).

> 	Crap. They take 60+ percent of your income in taxes, that means
> that they take 60+ percent of your working day.

They take 40% of my income, or are you talking of France taking 60% of your
income. Disagreement over the level or specific policies for spending it do
not justify eliminating the system.

> 	They (at least france) throw up HUGE barriers to anyone wanting to
> start a business, especially if they will need to hire workers. This not
> only makes it difficult for you to start a business (which would never
> happen since you've indicated you like someone else making decisions for
> you) but also increases unemployment (prevents others from creating jobs
> rather than just begging for them).

And you find that a better place to live then the US?

> individual is responsible for his and her actions. At the very least there
> aren't as many lawyers claiming everyone is a victim of something or
> another (ie. too hot coffee, slippery floors, home owners that shot the
> poor intruder who didn't get a warning first, etc.)

What is the percentage of lawyers in France to the total population?

> Ain't no where perfect, anarcho-whatever was done about 4000 years ago, I
> generally prefer to look forward...
> 
> 	So, the fact that it hasn't been tried in 4000 years means it will
> never work?
> 
> 	I guess it's a good thing the wright brothers didn't take that
> attitude, nor Robert Goddard.

We tried anarchy, it's called cave men. As to Wright and Goddard, they had
ample evidence in physics (that's been around what 4.5B years) to build
their expectations on. In the field of politics and social system the only
thing we have to go with is our imagination, patience, understanding, and
past practice. 5k years or a little more.

All of those say anarcho-anything systems won't work.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 10:47:32 +0800
To: Cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Off Topic But Truly Beautiful (fwd )
In-Reply-To: <3648A1A9.7DE1@lsil.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 4:11 PM -0500 11/10/98, Michael Motyka wrote:
>>     In the summer of 1984, 10th-grader Irwin Nanofsky and a
>>     friend were driving down the Apalachee Parkway on the way
>>     home from baseball practice when they were pulled over by
>>     a police officer for a minor traffic infraction.
...
>>     As policy analysts and hemp advocates alike have been
>>     quick to point out, the apparent legality (for now) of
>>     Nanofsky's "pot orange" may render debates over the
>>     legalization of marijuana moot. In fact, Florida's top
>>     law enforcement officials admit that even if the
>>     cultivation of Nanofsky's orange were to be outlawed, it
>>     would be exceedingly difficult to identify the presence
>>     of outlawed fruit among the state's largest agricultural
>>     crop.

	Once again technology makes the laws irrelevant.


	Gotta love it.
--
"To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a
jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a
gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather naďve, and certainly
unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust"
http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html

Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro@playboy.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 09:55:18 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: How to solve the tax problem w/o anarchy or force (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811110118.TAA21145@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 16:35:16 -0500
> From: Michael Hohensee 
> Subject: Re: How to solve the tax problem w/o anarchy or force (fwd)

> No, the intent *is* to make the system better and more equitable.  It's
> just that we don't favor the socialist definition of "equitable".

Taxation doesn't imply socialism, socialism is the state ownership of
property. In case you didn't know it, Russians didn't pay taxes because they
dind't have to. The Chinese still don't pay taxes (except for businesses
that are licensed by the state).

> We support voluntary systems, not coercive ones.

The US is a voluntary system, you can always leave.

> Except that it's personal improvement for *everyone* (except for tyrants
> and other politicans, but we didn't like them much anyway).

And those who are stolen from, killed in petty disputes, wronged in business
deals gone bad with no legal recourse and no hope of future legal
ramifications for the perps, starve to death because some asshole who values
a dollar more than a human life won't give somebody a meal, those who
can't start businesses because the existing markets have locked up the
necessary resources, etc.

> Our proposals do not leave things up to chance any more than the current
> system does.  In fact, it can be argued that our system leaves less up
> to chance than yours does.  Lets do a comparative analysis.

It leave a lot up to chance, the chance of making a profit in the market
with no regulations or other mechanism to stop abuse or other wrongs.
The implication is that the vast majority of participants won't be the one
making the profit and will as a consequence suffer because of it.

> 1:  	Social Ill exists.
> 2: 	Social Ill is identified by someone.
> 3:	That someone makes a lot of noise, and lobbies the state to supply
> money to finance the correction of the Social Ill.  This is done by
> convincing a majority of voters in some election or other, which may not
> take place for at least a year, that this Social Ill is very important
> --more important than all the other Social Ills.

No, it simply says that the current society has recognized a need,
determined that it can be addressed and chooses to do so.

> 4:	Someone who wants the Social Ill corrected gets into power, and
> proceeds to try to correct the Social Ill with a huge rumbling
> centralized governmental machine.  This often excacerbates the Social
> Ill, rather than correcting it.

Well actualy the huge rumbling centralized government is a result of the
economic impact of business on government, not the folks who want to address
social ills. The vast majority (well over half of each tax dollar) goes to
military or military related issues, not social ills.

This is a strawman.

> The net result:  The Social Ill is not likely to be corrected until the
> next election, and will be paid for by taking more money away from
> everyone else (since the state gets its money from taxpayers, and cannot
> create value out of thin air).  Even worse, the person lobbying for the
> correction of the Social Ill may not get into power, since he may have
> lost the election to someone who used lots of money to make him look
> bad.  Thus, the Social Ill may not get corrected for some time, if ever.

> Under a truly free system:
> 
> 1:	Social Ill exists.

And in spades.

> 2:	Social Ill is identified by someone.
> 3:	That someone makes a lot of noise, alerting everyone else to the
> existance of this Social Ill.  Those who agree with the first someone
> will contribute time, money, and resources to correcting this Social
> Ill.  

And what if that noise is contrary to the interest of a the business that is
perpetrating it. Since there are no protections of speech and press under
your system what keeps somebody from simply shooting the loud-mouthed
trouble maker? Historicaly there is plenty of evidence for this sort of
behaviour in un-regulated markets. Why would a business allow such a
vociferous display?

> 4:	Social Ill is dealt with in the most effective manner possible, since
> people will be free to try to correct it in any number of ways, and will
> of course prefer to contribute their money to an effort that has the
> best effect.

The most effective manner is to never have it happen in the first place.
While it's clear it isn't possible to legislate individual behaviour past a
grossly crude point it is possible to put breaks on the sorts of laws that a
given government can pass and enforce. At least with a bill of rights we
have a guide that we can use to measure extant and future legislation
against.

This can occur now under the present system, why doesn't it happen more?
There is absolutely no regulations that would prevent such activity; hell
the currrent system will even allow you to be exempt from taxes and give you
loans, will yours? But to address the point, given that there are no courts,
laws, etc. How does one go about addressing the social ill? Buy the company
out?

How realistic is it to expect the human slave to have the resources to buy
themselves out? Not very damn likely.

> This is an improvement upon today's system.

Only if you believe your smarter and faster on the draw than everyone who is
alive and will be alive during your life. Ain't gonna happen, there is
always a bigger fish, and they're hungry.

  We no longer need to have
> the majority of voters approval to start correcting the Social Ill.  All

No, you simply need to have the majority of social participants (I don't
think we should call them citizens) involved first person. The time drain
alone of that is enough to guarantee that nothing will be done.

> of the Social Ill.  This makes the most sense, since we obviously don't
> need to draw on *everyone'* resources to correct every Social Ill.  (of
> course, some rare Social Ills will be that large, but the larger the
> Social Ill, the more people wil recognize it as such.)

They will? Historicaly the majority of social ills have been recognized as
such by a minority and were corrected by a political mechanism that
recognizes things like civil liberties and limits on government purvue a
priori.

> Better yet, frivilous problems (i.e. those invented for the advancement
> of some politician's career, or out of sheer stupidity) will not have
> large amounts of resources wasted upon them.

And what makes you think that under your system a silver tongued devil won't
be able to garner the same sorts of support? People are social animals and
will follow the leader they believe will get them to where they need to be.
Whether that is government or a marketing puke is irrelevant.

> So, is it now clear to you why your above statement was somewhat
> premature?

It is clear to me that you neither understand human psychology, politics,
economics (macro or micro), or what freedom means.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: b!X 
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 11:49:38 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: IP: Clinton Wants Loophole In U.S. Free Speech Closed
In-Reply-To: <199811102122.NAA18762@netcom13.netcom.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Yeah yeah all very well and good parody except that the 2nd amendment
contains the word "well-regulated" and the 1st doesn't. 

(And yes I know I'm asking for a shitstorm of trouble saying that on THIS
list of all places).


- b!X (Guerrilla Techno-fetishist @ GEEK Force)






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 09:58:00 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: fuck copyright (Re: Advertising Creepiness) (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811110128.TAA21211@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 21:09:38 GMT
> From: Adam Back 
> Subject: Re: fuck copyright (Re: Advertising Creepiness) (fwd)

> One barrier to such an enterprise is the domain name recognition,
> people want wired, they type wired.com; what do they type if they want
> the lower priced mirrors?

The same question can be asked of the shopper who wants the lowest priced
tomato's. It isn't the vendors responsibility to provide those sorts of
mechanism for the consumer (or user of a system). The interpretation of what
lowest price means is so varied that trying to talk of it as some sort of
universal given is like talking about rational consumers. It's a
non-sequitar.

If the consumer wants the lowest price (in their personal estimation) goods
then they have several choices (at least):

 -	They can look for it themselves

 -	They can ask a friend

 -	They can pay somebody else to look for them

 -	Or they can sit back and wait for the relevant production sites
	to contact them (eg Wed's glob of shiney adverts)

There is also the very real question of why would wired allow a 3rd party
sell their product at a lower cost than they can sell it themselves? Not a
rational or good business practice anyway you look at it.

> service.  Therefore one might (somewhat weakly) argue that they
> deprive wired (and others) of click through revenue and they charge
> you thus diverting funds wired et al might otherwise have got.

Yeah, so? Just because I window shop in HEB down the street doesn't mean I
am required to buy anything. And if I walk past a shop and don't register
their window display doesn't mean the store lost anything from me - the very
fact that I ignored it means they weren't going to get my money at that
point. Now if they follow me down the sidewalk and bellow at me I can
guarantee that I (and most other folks) won't buy there even if the price is
lower.

I'd say "quit your whinning".


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 08:44:02 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: fuck copyright (Re: Advertising Creepiness) (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811110028.TAA19501@panix7.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



   >   From: Adam Back 
   >
   >   Jim Choate writes:
   >   > 
   >   > Ah, true but I was addressing the last sentence about the cost being so low
   >   > nobody will charge for it.....sounds like the nuclear industry marketing
   >   > speal of the 50's....
   >
   >   One barrier to such an enterprise is the domain name recognition,
   >   people want wired, they type wired.com; what do they type if they want
   >   the lower priced mirrors?

Uno momento...

    http://www.altavista.com
    
    Ask AltaVistaTM a question. 
    Example: "Where can I find information on bicycles?"

Okay, let's give it a spin...

   Where can I find information on low priced mirrors?

Results

    AltaVista found about 1,045,119 Web pages for you. 
    
    1. In this site you'll find low priced computer hardware including Pentium CPU
    2. Pasadena Pins & Patches - Low Priced Jewelry - Die Struck Enamel
    3. Pasadena Pins & Patches - Low Priced Jewelry - Photo-Etched
    4. BUSINESS BOOK SALE! Excellent online, low-priced books here!
    5. Low Priced Beanie Baby Link List Guide
    6. Pentium Computer Systems and Low priced computer components
    7. Inexpensive Software Cheap Software Low Priced Software
    8. D&R Computer - Your source for great low priced home PCs and business systems.
    9. THE UNDER $10 STOCK REPORT - Low Priced - High Yield Stocks
    10. Spider Web Designs - low priced web-site design, development, hosting, and cre

Hmmm, let me try that again.

The "+" is a meta-search character, meaning required.

    Where can I find information on low priced +mirrors?

    1. Miscellaneous Optical Suppliers. Polarizers.
    2. The Bronze Face Mirror is a large (14 x 12 cm) mirror made out of clay. 
    3. The Eye Rings that have a diameter of 2cm are made from a special clay. 
    4. This Mermaid of Flower ? make up shelf (24 x 84cm) is made from wood.
    5. This large (20 x 30 cm) Corset mirror is made from clay and wood. 
    6. The Large Space Ship Mirror is now made from wood (70 x 45 cm) 
    7. Gold-Leafed Oval Mirrors. Original designs, sophisticated finishes, and remarkable wholesale prices.
[ DING DING DING DING! ]
    8. These Wooden Lips are available in Red, Pink and Purple (76 x 53 cm). 
    9. The Little Devil is a large (14 x 16 cm) face mirror made out of clay. 
    10. Goderich Chrysler Plymouth Dodge Trucks, Goderich, Ontario, Canada, new and used vehicles

Wow. Just like 4th-generation development languages put
programmers out of business, these search engines will
eliminate the need for any other form of advertising.

---guy




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 10:03:05 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone(fwd)
Message-ID: <199811110129.TAA21263@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 16:05:08 -0500
> From: Michael Hohensee 
> Subject: Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone(fwd)

> > Explain how the system works. Explain how the various systems operate, how
> > the costs are calculated, and how they're paid. I want to see the same level
> > of *specificity* that I and others have agreed to provide you in our
> > examples.
> 
> Do you have any idea what you're asking for?

More than you can produce apparently.

> Quite frankly, I do not have the time (nor the space) to explain to you,
> in detail, how an entire civilization operates.  In fact, any attempt by
> me to explain such a system would fail, since there are doubtless many
> innovations which specialists in the respective fields would make, and
> there are many more which have already been made, which I am not
> necessarilly aware of.

If you can't explain your system to me in sufficient detail then perhaps
it's because you don't understand it.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 10:12:33 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811110138.TAA21400@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 12:33:04 -0500
> From: Petro 
> Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the (fwd)

> 	Theft, violence and extortion are already legitimate, not only does
> the government use them all the time, but corporations and indivuduals do
> as well.

True, at least under a democratic system we can prevent some of the more
gross abuses by government and can address the inter-personal issues with
something besides a nylon jacketed .357. Your anarcho-whatever doesn't even
provide that.

> 	There is no (or little) justice under the current system. When was
> the last time a cop went to jail for a murder that he/she committed while
> on duty. Is OJ behind bars?

Several cops in Houston were fired (they got no-billed by the Grand Jury)
just last week because of a similar issue. There are two cops here in Austin
who went to jail because of a murder (they held a kid down on a water bed
and he suffocated) charge. The current public overwatch group was the result
of a police call that got out of hand last year and the police had two
choices - either give the people what they asked for or end loose the civil
rights case. The two cops who beat Rodney King ended up doing time.

Nobody proved to the jury beyond a shadow of a doubt he was guilty. It is
far better to let a dozen guilty men go free than to imprison a single
innocent one. Our legal system may have its problem but I guarantee that a
lot more guilty people get off scott free than innocent people end up in
jail.

There is more than a little justice under the current system (OJ being the
perfect example - like it or not).

> 	We have courts of Law, Justice is ashamed to show her face.

Somehow I doubt that. If justice is ashamed of anything its that citizens of
this country don't participate more and express their views with more
conviction.

> 	We recognize that these interactions exist, but guess what, for any
> sort  of anarchy to exist, it has to happen globally. We are as concerned
> about the people on the other side of the planet as we are about the people
> in the next city over. Just not much.

Which, considering that anarchic systems permit murder, theft, rape,
extortion, etc. without reprisal or limits, means that the vast majority of
people are probably going to sleep a sounder sleep knowing they don't have
to go out and buy a tank tomorrow just to make sure they have a home to come
to in the evening.

> 	No, we assume the opposite, that nothing works for large numbers of
> people, and everyone should be free to find their own level.

If nothing works for large numbers of people then why should this? Anarchy
isn't freedom, it's opportunity to make huge profits with no responsiblity
and at the expence of others (who are treated as a market commodity and not
human beings).


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 10:10:21 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone(fwd)
Message-ID: <199811110150.TAA21515@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 15:57:04 -0500
> From: Michael Hohensee 
> Subject: Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone(fwd)

> > Without some government the Bad Guys will be the only ones with anything.
> > It is only with the threat of losing their power that leaders do good. If
> > they had no power which could be lost or taken they will always do what's
> > best for them in the short term, which is usually to shit on the peons.
> > Dictators (like Pinochet and Gates) do their dirty deeds because they feel
> > no need to placate the masses.
> 
> If they wield no real power, and proceed to do whatever is best for them
> in the short term, they will be screwing themselves over in the long
> term (or short term, if doing what they want results in someone shooting
> them in self defense).

If they have that kind of power they will have the shooter shot, look at the
history of leaders and assassinations. The reality is that the vast majority
of them fail. There is the other aspect that if one is willing to
assassinate (murder in plain english) simply because somebody else murdered
then we are in fact trading one tyrant for another.

> And precisely what dirty deeds has Mr. Gates ever done?

Every un-fair market practice he could get away with (why is it that
anarcho-whatever types always leave that 'fair competition' out of their
discussion?). Why do you believe the Halloween documents are so
enlightening? Because they demonstrate without a shadow of doubt that Billy
wanted to exist as the sole market force, not a force limited by fair
competition. The concept of fair-competition is anti-thematic to the
world-domination memes that are currently making the rounds.

>  Excluding those
> actions in which the judicious use of state regulation was involved.

Hell, if we just look at the business practices within the context of
a market with fair competition it's clear he's so far out in left field he's
playing by himself.

> Yah, and then somebody else points a gun at Mr. would-be warlord and
> goes Bang, Bang, he's dead  (it's unsafe having warlords about --sorta
> like scorpions).  That is, if Mr. would-be manages to shoot me without
> being shot himself.

Well I'd say if you're running around shooting people for any reason other
than immediate self defence you deserve what you get.

> > Try to lift yourself out of the bullshit of your theory and give us at
> > least one REAL example (current or historic) of a large scale, long lasting
> > anarcho-capitalist society. Hippie communes are too small, and make sure
> > it's capitalistic. If you can't think of one in the next year or so then
> > come back and tell us.
> 
> It hasn't happened yet.  But then, neither had the USA, before 1776. 
> The above is not a reasonable argument.

It is at least a start, there was ample evidence historicaly that democracy
(you ever hear of the Dutch?) was tried to varying degrees. It seems to work
out better than any other system we've developed.

If you want to see a discussion of democracy prior to the US check out:

On the improvement of the understanding; The Ethics; Correspondence
Benedict de Spinoza
ISBN 0-486-20250-x
$7.95 (Dover)

They were written in the mid to late 1600's (shortly before the birth of
the founding fathers).
   
> You can, of course, as me how it *could* happen.  And unfortunately,
> you're partially correct, it couldn't happen under current conditions. 
> The amount of personal firepower that is easily accessible by everyone
> is not sufficient to back up the soverignity of each individual.

So, in your mind the only way to defend oneself is to have a bigger dick..um
I mean gun than the other guy....

I've a couple of quotes for you to ponder:

Genius is 1% inspiration and 99% persperation.

                             T.E. Edison

If Mr. Edison had though smarter he wouldn't have had to perspire as much.

                                                   N. Tesla


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 10:12:14 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: most of what govts do can be done by business, and done better (Re: How to solve the tax problem w/o anarchy or force) (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811110151.TAA21565@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 20:39:05 GMT
> From: Adam Back 
> Subject: most of what govts do can be done by business, and done better (Re: How to solve the tax problem w/o anarchy or force)

> Even when government does sub-contract, the inefficiency is usually I
> think pretty horrendous by industry standards:

The same can be said for business in general as well (especialy if there is
no competition).


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 10:09:37 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: charity at the point of a gun (Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone) (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811110154.TAA21649@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 13:28:11 -0700 (MST)
> From: Jim Burnes 
> Subject: Re: charity at the point of a gun (Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone) (fwd)

> (1) Social transfer payments at the point of a gun are involuntary
> compassion.
> 
> (2) Involutary compassion is usually called rape.

No, thats' lust not compassion. Involuntary lust is called rape.

> Combine this with the US Govt defining a sex life as a "right"
> (witness free Viagra) and you come up with some pretty 
> chilling scenarios.
> 
> (do people have the "right" to a sex partner?)

Read the 9th Amendment. I'd say so.

> Whats to stop rape of selected human beings by agents of
> the federal government?  (ok, maybe thats going a little
> too far

The 4th Amendment among others.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 10:11:06 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: most of what govts do can be done by business, and done (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811110156.TAA21708@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 18:00:44 -0500
> From: Petro 
> Subject: Re: most of what govts do can be done by business, and done
>  better (Re: How to solve the tax problem w/o anarchy or force)

> 	Roads are the easiest (assuming a government model) things to apply
> road use taxes to, simply tax gasoline, oil, and tires. Scale your tire tax
> based on weight and apply it to bicycles as well, then everyone (execpt
> peds) who uses pays.

Screw that, tax the shoes.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 12:56:19 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: IP: Clinton Wants Loophole In U.S. Free Speech Closed
In-Reply-To: <199811102122.NAA18762@netcom13.netcom.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 7:25 PM -0800 11/10/98, b!X wrote:
>Yeah yeah all very well and good parody except that the 2nd amendment
>contains the word "well-regulated" and the 1st doesn't.
>
>(And yes I know I'm asking for a shitstorm of trouble saying that on THIS
>list of all places).
>

No, you are welcome to _say_ damned near anything you want to say.

However, graduate from _saying_ things to grabbing our guns, that's when
you'll need killing.


--Tim May

Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash.
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 10:59:12 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Question about insurance managed fire services...
Message-ID: <199811110238.UAA22090@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



How does company A guarantee that company B won't begin to burn down the
customers of company A so that the economic impact on A is sufficient they
can't participate in the market?


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 07:22:38 +0800
To: vznuri@netcom.com
Subject: most of what govts do can be done by business, and done better (Re: How to solve the tax problem w/o anarchy or force)
In-Reply-To: <199811100157.RAA05844@netcom13.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <199811102039.UAA09523@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Vladimir Nuri writes:
> the distinction between govt and business is sometimes an
> arbitrary one. for example govt agencies typically contract
> with private companies to perform govt services. a massive
> example of this is the defense industry. what I would tend
> to propose is a system where this is augmented and finetuned
> to the point the govt become a very efficient sorting mechanism
> for channeling money to businesses that are the most efficient.

Even when government does sub-contract, the inefficiency is usually I
think pretty horrendous by industry standards:

1. the subcontracted work is probably not at all desired by the
customers (us the tax payers)

2. the subcontracted work is probably poorly specified, so the
contractor does work which inefficiently works towards the customers
requirements

3. because governments are monopolies they have no incentive to choose
the best value for money contract, or to try hard to obtain reasonable
contracts

4. because governments employees are often corrupt kick backs are
taken by corrupt employees to accept other than the best value for
money contractor

> AB, I disagree that people would opt out of virtually all govt
> services. bzzzzzzzt. think of things like trash collection etc.
> I do believe the vast majority of things the govt does would
> tend to stay there even if people had a choice.

Everything that can easily be privatised would either be privatised
(because it would be so much cheaper without all the corruption,
ineptitude and lack of efficiency insentive), or for the first time
some competition would be introduced into government and they would
actually compete on an even basis.  Either outcome is preferable over
the current situation, and a direct result of allowing competition.

> the big libertarian question is, as you raise it: should people
> have to pay for things they don't want. 

absolutely not.

> well consider things like roads, 

if you don't drive you shouldn't have to pay for them.

> police

if you have hired a private security firm for protection you shouldn't
have to pay for the police (who as others have noted mostly do
unproductive things, and prosecute victimless crimes, and generally
harrass people).

> or fire protection

well if your house burns down, and you haven't taken fire insurance
with a fire fighting service, and can't afford the fee, well that's
tough luck.

> or the court system.  

I don't want to subsidize arbitration services locking away people for
victimless crimes, so I will subscribe to arbitration services which
don't do this.  See "Machinery of Freedom" by David Friedman for a
plausible frame work for choice in arbitration services and intra
service negotations.

Note quite a lot of business use independent arbitration services,
because it is much cheaper, fairer, and more predictable than the
government monopoly court system.

> what if you don't pay, but then dial 911 anyway?

they ask for your to authenticate your chaumian credential insurancce
contract.  if you can't do that they don't come, same as any other
0800-RENTACOP service.

> or you dial 911 and they ask for your credit card first? 

yup, exactly.

> it really does seem to me like there is a legitimate role for a
> certain amount of money to be collected for govt service. 

I think you can privatise everything.  Things which are called natural
monopolies could be managed by trade organisations or companies
bidding for management getting efficiency related fees.  Why should
politicians and the rest manage roads, why not a company.

> imho it is far, far less than whatis being collected today. 

zero I think woudl be best, or very very close.

> if taxes were 5-10% people wouldn't give as much a damn about the
> govt and how it worked. 

What all could you spend 5-10% of GNP on that couldn't be privatised?
Sounds like an awful lot of legalised theft yet!

> libertarians tend to be awfully realistic some times. who pays for
> roads when everyone uses them? 

don't pay not allowed to use.  not everyone uses them to drive cars
on.

Adam




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 11:11:59 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Question about anarchic systems and natural disasters
Message-ID: <199811110253.UAA22178@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



What would be the responce of a anarchic system that was based on profit in
regards something like Mitch's impact on Ctl. America and their plea for
food and aid?


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 11:34:06 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com
Subject: secF9.html
Message-ID: <199811110307.VAA22246@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



   
   
F.9 IS MEDIEVAL ICELAND AN EXAMPLE OF "ANARCHO"-CAPITALISM WORKING IN PRACTICE?
                                       
   
   
   Ironically, medieval Iceland is a good example of why
   "anarcho"-capitalism will not work, degenerating into de facto rule by
   the rich. It should be pointed out first that Iceland, nearly 1,000
   years ago, was not a capitalistic system. In fact, like most cultures
   claimed by "anarcho"-capitalists as examples of their "utopia," it was
   a communal, not individualistic, society, based on artisan production,
   with extensive communal institutions as well as individual "ownership"
   (i.e. use) and a form of social self-administration, the thing -- both
   local and Iceland-wide -- which can be considered a "primitive" form
   of the anarchist communal assembly.
   
   As William Ian Miller points out "[p]eople of a communitarian nature.
   . . have reason to be attracted [to Medieval Iceland]. . . the limited
   role of lordship, the active participation of large numbers of free
   people . . . in decision making within and without the homestead. The
   economy barely knew the existence of markets. Social relations
   preceded economic relations. The nexus of household, kin, Thing, even
   enmity, more than the nexus of cash, bound people to each other. The
   lack of extensive economic differentiation supported a weakly
   differentiated class system . . . [and material] deprivations were
   more evenly distributed than they would be once state institutions
   also had to be maintained." [Bloodtaking and Peacemaking: Feud, Law
   and Society in Saga Iceland, p. 306]
   
   Kropotkin in Mutual Aid indicates that Norse society, from which the
   settlers in Iceland came, had various "mutual aid" institutions,
   including communal land ownership (based around what he called the
   "village community") and the thing (see also Kropotkin's The State:
   Its Historic Role for a discussion of the "village community"). It is
   reasonable to think that the first settlers in Iceland would have
   brought such institutions with them and Iceland did indeed have its
   equivalent of the commune or "village community," the Hreppar, which
   developed early in the country's history. Like the early local
   assemblies, it is not much discussed in the Sagas but is mentioned in
   the law book, the Grágás, and was composed of a minimum of twenty
   farms and had a five member commission. The Hreppar was self-governing
   and, among other things, was responsible for seeing that orphans and
   the poor within the area were fed and housed. The Hreppar also served
   as a property insurance agency and assisted in case of fire and losses
   due to diseased livestock. The Hreppar may have also have organised
   and controlled summer grazing lands (which in turn suggests "commons"
   -- i.e. common land -- of some kind).
   
   Thus Icelandic society had a network of solidarity, based upon
   communal life. In practice this meant that "each commune was a mutual
   insurance company, or a miniature welfare state. And membership in the
   commune was not voluntary. Each farmer had to belong to the commune in
   which his farm was located and to contribute to its needs."
   [Gissurarson quoted by Birgit T. Runolfsson Solvason, Ordered Anarchy,
   State and Rent-Seeking: The Icelandic Commonwealth, 930-1262] However,
   unlike an anarchist society, the Icelandic Commonwealth did not allow
   farmers not to join its communes.
   
   Therefore, the Icelandic Commonwealth can hardly be claimed in any
   significant way as an example of "anarcho"-capitalism in practice.
   This can also be seen from the early economy, where prices were
   subject to popular judgement at the skuldaping ("payment-thing") not
   supply and demand. [Kirsten Hastrup, Culture and History in Medieval
   Iceland, p. 125] Indeed, with its communal price setting system in
   local assemblies, the early Icelandic commonwealth was more similar to
   Guild Socialism (which was based upon guild's negotiating "just
   prices" for goods and services) than capitalism. Therefore Miller
   correctly argues that it would be wrong to impose capitalist ideas and
   assumptions onto Icelandic society:
   
   "Inevitably the attempt was made to add early Iceland to the number of
   regions that socialised people in nuclear families within simple
   households. . . what the sources tell us about the shape of Icelandic
   householding must compel a different conclusion." [Op. Cit., p. 112]
   
   In other words, Kropotkin's analysis of communal society is far closer
   to the reality of Medieval Iceland than David Friedman's attempt in
   The Machinery of Freedom to turn it into a capitalist utopia.
   
   However, the communal nature of Icelandic society also co-existed (as
   in most such cultures) with hierarchical institutions, including some
   with capitalistic elements, namely private property and "private
   states" around the local godar. The godar were local chiefs who also
   took the role of religious leaders. As the Encyclopaedia Britannica
   explains, "a kind of local government was evolved [in Iceland] by
   which the people of a district who had most dealings together formed
   groups under the leadership of the most important or influential man
   in the district" (the godi). The godi "acted as judge and mediator"
   and "took a lead in communal activities" such as building places of
   worship. These "local assemblies. . . are heard of before the
   establishment of the althing" (the national thing). This althing led
   to co-operation between the local assemblies.
   
   Therefore we see communal self-management in a basic form, plus
   co-operation between communities as well. These communistic,
   mutual-aid features exist in many non-capitalist cultures and are
   often essential for ensuring the people's continued freedom within
   those cultures (section B.2.5 on why the wealthy undermine these
   popular "folk-motes" in favour of centralisation). Usually, the
   existence of private property (and so inequality) soon led to the
   destruction of communal forms of self-management (with participation
   by all male members of the community as in Iceland), which are
   replaced by the rule of the rich.
   
   While such developments are a commonplace in most "primitive"
   cultures, the Icelandic case has an unusual feature which explains the
   interest it provokes in "anarcho"-capitalist circles. This feature was
   that individuals could seek protection from any godi. As the
   Encyclopaedia Britannica puts it, "the extent of the godord
   [chieftancy] was not fixed by territorial boundaries. Those who were
   dissatisfied with their chief could attach themselves to another godi.
   . . As a result rivalry arose between the godar [chiefs]; as may be
   seen from the Icelandic Sagas." It is these Sagas on which David
   Friedman (in The Machinery of Freedom) bases his claim that Medieval
   Iceland is a working example of "anarcho" capitalism.
   
   Hence we can see that artisans and farmers would seek the "protection"
   of a godi, providing their labour in return. These godi would be
   subject to "market forces," as dissatisfied individuals could
   affiliate themselves to other godi. This system, however, had an
   obvious (and fatal) flaw. As the Encyclopaedia Britannica points out:
   
   "The position of the godi could be bought and sold, as well as
   inherited; consequently, with the passing of time, the godord for
   large areas of the country became concentrated in the hands of one man
   or a few men. This was the principal weakness of the old form of
   government: it led to a struggle of power and was the chief reason for
   the ending of the commonwealth and for the country's submission to the
   King of Norway."
   
   It was the existence of these hierarchical elements in Icelandic
   society that explain its fall from anarchistic to statist society. As
   Kropotkin argued "from chieftainship sprang on the one hand the State
   and on the other private property." [Act for Yourselves, p. 85]
   Kropotkin's insight that chieftainship is a transitional system has
   been confirmed by anthropologists studying "primitive" societies. They
   have come to the conclusion that societies made up of chieftainships
   or chiefdoms are not states: "Chiefdoms are neither stateless nor
   state societies in the fullest sense of either term: they are on the
   borderline between the two. Having emerged out of stateless systems,
   they give the impression of being on their way to centralised states
   and exhibit characteristics of both." [Y. Cohen quoted by Birgit T.
   Runolfsson Solvason, Op. Cit.] Since the Commonwealth was made up of
   chiefdoms, this explains the contradictory nature of the society - it
   was in the process of transition, from anarchy to statism, from a
   communal economy to one based on private property.
   
   The political transition within Icelandic society went hand in hand
   with an economic transition (both tendencies being mutually
   reinforcing). Initially, when Iceland was settled, large-scale farming
   based on extended households with kinsmen was the dominant economic
   mode. This semi-communal mode of production changed as the land was
   divided up (mostly through inheritance claims) between the 10th and
   11th centuries. This new economic system based upon individual
   possession and artisan production was then slowly displaced by tenant
   farming, in which the farmer worked for a landlord, starting in the
   late 11th century. This economic system (based on a form of wage
   labour, i.e. capitalistic production) ensured that "great variants of
   property and power emerged." [Kirsten Hastrup, Culture and History in
   Medieval Iceland, pp. 172-173] During the 12th century wealth
   concentrated into fewer and fewer hands and by its end an elite of
   around 6 wealthy and powerful families had emerged.
   
   During this evolution in ownership patterns and the concentration of
   wealth and power into the hands of a few, we should note that the
   godi's and wealthy landowners' attitude to profit making also changed,
   with market values starting to replace those associated with honour,
   kin, and so on. Social relations became replaced by economic relations
   and the nexus of household, kin and Thing was replaced by the nexus of
   cash and profit. The rise of capitalistic social relationships in
   production and values within society was also reflected in exchange,
   with the local marketplace, with its pricing "subject to popular
   judgement" being "subsumed under central markets." [Ibid., p. 225]
   
   With a form of wage labour being dominant within society, it is not
   surprising that great differences in wealth started to appear. Also,
   as protection did not come free, it is not surprising that a godi
   tended to become rich also. This would enable him to enlist more
   warriors, which gave him even more social power (in Kropotkin's words,
   "the individual accumulation of wealth and power"). Powerful godi
   would be useful for wealthy landowners when disputes over land and
   rent appeared, and wealthy landowners would be useful for a godi when
   feeding his warriors. Production became the means of enriching the
   already wealthy, with concentrations of wealth producing
   concentrations of social and political power (and vice versa).
   Kropotkin's general summary of the collapse of "barbarian" society
   into statism seems applicable here - "after a hard fight with bad
   crops, inundations and pestilences, [farmers]. . . began to repay
   their debts, they fell into servile obligations towards the protector
   of the territory. Wealth undoubtedly did accumulate in this way, and
   power always follows wealth." [Mutual Aid, p. 131]
   
   The transformation of possession into property and the resulting rise
   of hired labour was a key element in the accumulation of wealth and
   power, and the corresponding decline in liberty among the farmers.
   Moreover, with hired labour springs dependency -- the worker is now
   dependent on good relations with their landlord in order to have
   access to the land they need. With such reductions in the independence
   of part of Icelandic society, the undermining of self-management in
   the various Things was also likely as labourers could not vote freely
   as they could be subject to sanctions from their landlord for voting
   the "wrong" way. Thus hierarchy within the economy would spread into
   the rest of society, and in particular its social institutions,
   reinforcing the effects of the accumulation of wealth and power.
   
   The resulting classification of Icelandic society played a key role in
   its move from relative equality and anarchy to a class society and
   statism. As Millar points out:
   
   "as long as the social organisation of the economy did not allow for
   people to maintain retinues, the basic egalitarian assumptions of the
   honour system. . . were reflected reasonably well in reality. . . the
   mentality of hierarchy never fully extricated itself from the
   egalitarian ethos of a frontier society created and recreated by
   juridically equal farmers. Much of the egalitarian ethic maintained
   itself even though it accorded less and less with economic realities.
   . . by the end of the commonwealth period certain assumptions about
   class privilege and expectations of deference were already well enough
   established to have become part of the lexicon of self-congratulation
   and self-justification." [Op. Cit., pp. 33-4]
   
   This process in turn accelerated the destruction of communal life and
   the emergence of statism, focused around the godord. In effect, the
   godi and wealthy farmers became rulers of the country and "the old
   form of government became modified in the course of time." This change
   from a communalistic, anarchistic society to a statist, propertarian
   one can also be seen from this quote from an article on Iceland by
   Hallberg Hallmundsson in the Encyclopaedia Americana, which identifies
   wealth concentration in fewer and fewer hands as having been
   responsible for undermining Icelandic society:
   
   "During the 12th century, wealth and power began to accumulate in the
   hands of a few chiefs, and by 1220, six prominent families ruled the
   entire country. It was the internecine power struggle among these
   families, shrewdly exploited by King Haakon IV of Norway, that finally
   brought the old republic to an end."
   
   This process, wherein the concentration of wealth leads to the
   destruction of communal life and so the anarchistic aspects of a given
   society, can be seen elsewhere, for example, in the history of the
   United States after the Revolution or in the degeneration of the free
   cities of Medieval Europe. Peter Kropotkin, in his classic work Mutual
   Aid, documents this process in some detail, in many cultures and time
   periods. However, that this process occurred in a society which is
   used by "anarcho"-capitalists as an example of their system in action
   reinforces the anarchist analysis of the statist nature of
   "anarcho"-capitalism and the deep flaws in its theory, as discussed in
   section F.6.
   
   As Miller argues, "[i]t is not the have-nots, after all, who invented
   the state. The first steps toward state formation in Iceland were made
   by churchmen. . . and by the big men content with imitating Norwegian
   royal style. Early state formation, I would guess, tended to involve
   redistributions, not from rich to poor, but from poor to rich, from
   weak to strong." [Op. Cit., p. 306]
   
   David Friedman is aware of how the Icelandic Republic degenerated and
   its causes. He states in a footnote in his 1979 essay "Private
   Creation and Enforcement of Law: A Historical Case" that the "question
   of why the system eventually broke down is both interesting and
   difficult. I believe that two of the proximate causes were increased
   concentration of wealth, and hence power, and the introduction into
   Iceland of a foreign ideology -- kingship. The former meant that in
   many areas all or most of the godord were held by one family and the
   latter that by the end of the Sturlung period the chieftains were no
   longer fighting over the traditional quarrels of who owed what to
   whom, but over who should eventually rule Iceland. The ultimate
   reasons for those changes are beyond the scope of this paper."
   
   However, from an anarchist point of view, the "foreign" ideology of
   kingship would be the product of changing socio-economic conditions
   that were expressed in the increasing concentration of wealth and not
   its cause.
   
   The settlers of Iceland were well aware of the "ideology" of kingship
   for the 300 years during which the Republic existed. However, only the
   concentration of wealth allowed would-be Kings the opportunity to
   develop and act and the creation of boss-worker social relationships
   on the land made the poor subject to, and familiar with, the concept
   of authority. Such familiarity would spread into all aspects of life
   and, combined with the existence of "prosperous" (and so powerful)
   godi to enforce the appropriate servile responses, ensured the end of
   the relative equality that fostered Iceland's anarchistic tendencies
   in the first place.
   
   In addition, as private property is a monopoly of rulership over a
   given area, the conflict between chieftains for power was, at its most
   basic, a conflict of who would own Iceland, and so rule it. The
   attempt to ignore the facts that private property creates rulership
   (i.e. a monopoly of government over a given area) and that monarchies
   are privately owned states does Friedman's case no good. In other
   words, the system of private property has a built in tendency to
   produce both the ideology and fact of Kingship - the power structures
   implied by Kingship are reflected in the social relations which are
   produced by private property.
   
   Friedman is also aware that an "objection [to his system] is that the
   rich (or powerful) could commit crimes with impunity, since nobody
   would be able to enforce judgement against them. Where power is
   sufficiently concentrated this might be true; this was one of the
   problems which led to the eventual breakdown of the Icelandic legal
   system in the thirteenth century. But so long as power was reasonably
   dispersed, as it seem to have been for the first two centuries after
   the system was established, this was a less serious problem." [Op.
   Cit.]
   
   Which is quite ironic. Firstly, because the first two centuries of
   Icelandic society was marked by non-capitalist economic relations
   (communal pricing and family/individual possession of land). Only when
   capitalistic social relationships developed (hired labour and property
   replacing possession and market values replacing social ones) in the
   12th century did power become concentrated, leading to the breakdown
   of the system in the 13th century.
   
   Secondly, because Friedman is claiming that "anarcho"-capitalism will
   only work if there is an approximate equality within society! But this
   state of affairs is one most "anarcho"-capitalists claim is impossible
   and undesirable!
   
   They claim there will always be rich and poor. But inequality in
   wealth will also become inequality of power. When "actually existing"
   capitalism has become more free market the rich have got richer and
   the poor poorer. Apparently, according to the "anarcho"-capitalists,
   in an even "purer" capitalism this process will be reversed! It is
   ironic that an ideology that denounces egalitarianism as a revolt
   against nature implicitly requires an egalitarian society in order to
   work.
   
   In reality, wealth concentration is a fact of life in any system based
   upon hierarchy and private property. Friedman is aware of the reasons
   why "anarcho"-capitalism will become rule by the rich but prefers to
   believe that "pure" capitalism will produce an egalitarian society! In
   the case of the commonwealth of Iceland this did not happen - the rise
   in private property was accompanied by a rise in inequality and this
   lead to the breakdown of the Republic into statism.
   
   In short, Medieval Iceland nicely illustrates David Weick's comments
   (as quoted in section F.6.3) that "when private wealth is
   uncontrolled, then a police-judicial complex enjoying a clientele of
   wealthy corporations whose motto is self-interest is hardly an
   innocuous social force controllable by the possibility of forming or
   affiliating with competing 'companies.'" This is to say that "free
   market" justice soon results in rule by the rich, and being able to
   affiliate with "competing" "defence companies" is insufficient to stop
   or change that process.
   
   This is simply because any defence-judicial system does not exist in a
   social vacuum. The concentration of wealth -- a natural process under
   the "free market" (particularly one marked by private property and
   wage labour) -- has an impact on the surrounding society. Private
   property, i.e. monopolisation of the means of production, allows the
   monopolists to become a ruling elite by exploiting, and so
   accumulating vastly more wealth than, the workers. This elite then
   uses its wealth to control the coercive mechanisms of society
   (military, police, "private security forces," etc.), which it employs
   to protect its monopoly and thus its ability to accumulate ever more
   wealth and power. Thus, private property, far from increasing the
   freedom of the individual, has always been the necessary precondition
   for the rise of the state and rule by the rich. Medieval Iceland is a
   classic example of this process at work.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 07:28:21 +0800
To: ravage@einstein.ssz.com
Subject: Re: fuck copyright (Re: Advertising Creepiness) (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199811101343.HAA17689@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <199811102109.VAA09630@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Jim Choate writes:
> From: "Frank O'Dwyer" 
> > Jim Choate wrote:
> > > > You can make money from information provision by charging extra for
> > > > up-to-date news, or by charging so little that the cost from the
> > > > original provider is so low that it's not worth anyones time to
> > > > redistribute it,
> > > 
> > > That's true now, why don't we see these effects...
> > 
> > We do. News inherently has a 'sell-by' date. The most obvious example is
> > stock quotes where delayed quotes are provided for free whereas
> > real-time quotes are heavily charged for. 
> 
> Ah, true but I was addressing the last sentence about the cost being so low
> nobody will charge for it.....sounds like the nuclear industry marketing
> speal of the 50's....

One barrier to such an enterprise is the domain name recognition,
people want wired, they type wired.com; what do they type if they want
the lower priced mirrors?

In a sense the banner stripping companies are already doing just this
service: they attempt to provide you (or assist you in obtaining)
banner stripped versions of anything, and they charge you for the
service.  Therefore one might (somewhat weakly) argue that they
deprive wired (and others) of click through revenue and they charge
you thus diverting funds wired et al might otherwise have got.

This illustrates my point about charging little.  If this type of
enterprise suceeds this indicates that some information providers are
charging too much (too many banners, to an distracting and intrusive
extent).

If the banners strippers became popular (eg. distributed with
netscape!), the solution for those employing the banner approach to
charging is to tone down the banners a bit.  I reckon they could do
with toning down -- it is getting ridiculus most of the bandwidth
through my trusty 28.8k modem is bloody banners these days!  (Phone
calls cost per second in the UK, and I am impatient anyway, so would
prefer faster access.)

Adam




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 11:53:39 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: IP: Clinton Wants Loophole In U.S. Free Speech Closed (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811110331.VAA22384@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 19:25:40 -0800 (PST)
> From: b!X 
> Subject: Re: IP: Clinton Wants Loophole In U.S. Free Speech Closed

> Yeah yeah all very well and good parody except that the 2nd amendment
> contains the word "well-regulated" and the 1st doesn't. 
> 
> (And yes I know I'm asking for a shitstorm of trouble saying that on THIS
> list of all places).

 
				ARTICLE I. 
 
	Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, 
or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of 
speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, 
and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. 
 
 
 
				ARTICLE II. 
 
	A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a 
free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be 
infringed. 
 

I'd say that 'shall make no law' is a clear as 'shall not be infringed' and
pretty equivalent in meaning.

See, no shit-storm (they reserve that for me...;).



    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Frederick Burroughs 
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 11:00:54 +0800
To: Cypherpunks 
Subject: Re: Strange brew (was Off Topic But Truly Beautiful)
In-Reply-To: <3648A1A9.7DE1@lsil.com>
Message-ID: <3648F7C5.423923CE@shentel.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





Michael Motyka wrote:

> Clyde wrote:
> >
> > Long but fascinating...
> >
> >     ---------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >     9 November 1998
> >
> >     DATELINE--Tallahassee, Fla.
> >     Oranges that get you high
> >     ===========================
> >
> >     A Florida Biochemist designs a citrus tree with THC.

[savagely pruned]

> >     Copyright 1994-98 San Francisco Bay Guardian.

Satirization or prophesy, the walls are coming down. Whether they be the
borders of  nationstates or the dna of species, the boundaries that once
defined are now dissolving. Look for transgenic terrorists to engineer terror
down to the genetic level. Psilocybin from Saccharomyces, now that'll make a
heady wine. Developments along these lines are advancing in Brazil and South
Africa. Freeze dried packets (with psychedelic holographic label designs) are
available via mail order to csychomimetic enologists.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 12:40:14 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Elder Kennedy ordered to tesify to Grand Jury (if you can call it that) [CNN]
Message-ID: <199811110414.WAA22671@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> X-within-URL: http://www.cnn.com/US/9811/10/kennedy.testimony.ap/

>    STAMFORD, Connecticut (AP) -- A Florida judge on Tuesday ordered the
>    elderly brother of Ethel Kennedy to testify before a Connecticut grand
>    jury investigating a 1975 slaying in which his two sons are suspects.
>    
>    Rushton Skakel, 74, of Hobe Sound, Florida, was ordered to testify
>    about what he knows about the slaying of Martha Moxley, a 15-year-old
>    Greenwich girl who was bludgeoned to death with a golf club.

...

>    The case stalled for years but was revived this spring by the
>    appointment of a grand jury consisting of a single judge.

[remainder deleted]

Now if that isn't unconstitutional I don't know what is. He and his lawyer
should be screaming bloody murder (figuratively).


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Albert P. Franco, II" 
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 06:23:15 +0800
To: Soren 
Subject: Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the  Foregone(fwd)
In-Reply-To: <5F152E6E8E6FD21195DF00104B2425AD02B276@yarrowbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981110224329.008bc5b0@apf2.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/enriched

 At 09:33 10/11/98 -0500, you wrote: 
>>>>
Albert P. Franco, II wrote: 
I've been lurking on this thread for a while, and I am amazed by the level 
of utopist muck that is being spewed here by you. 

Without some government the Bad Guys will be the only ones with anything. 
It is only with the threat of losing their power that leaders do good. If 
they had no power which could be lost or taken they will always do what's 
best for them in the short term, which is usually to shit on the peons. 
Dictators (like Pinochet and Gates) do their dirty deeds because they feel 
no need to placate the masses.
And the Bad Guys don't have everything already? Are they in any danger of losing their power? 
<<<<

They don't have my car, my computers, or my house and other belongings. They not in as much danger as they should be, but they can be impeached and loose elections.

>>>>
This anarcho-capitalist spew is so much crap that the bullshit indicators 
are blaring at top volume. If the people can't control a constitutional 
government, known for having peacefully free elections for over two hundred 
years, then how the hell do think you can convince somebody that the people 
are going to be able to control warlords and monopolies. It's called, "You 
don't like it? Bang, Bang, you're dead!"
And this differs from living in in a 1st world state, how? 
<<<<

Where do you live? I know LA and some other big cities are pretty bad, but come on no one seriously believes that under "civilized" governments (1st World State) that this is ubiquitously the way it is. Under the anarcho-capilist system proposed it would be the ubiquitous state of affairs.

>>>>
Try to lift yourself out of the bullshit of your theory and give us at 
least one REAL example (current or historic) of a large scale, long lasting 
anarcho-capitalist society. Hippie communes are too small, and make sure 
it's capitalistic. If you can't think of one in the next year or so then 
come back and tell us.
Is there some specific reason they need to be large scale or long lasting?  By definition, anarcho-capitalism is constantly changing -- perhaps as much as between extreme individualism, to the current state of feudalism that has pervaded the world since the birth of agrarianism. 
<<<<

Peace and prosperity require stability. If your system is ever changing then there will never be long term investments and thus no new technologies or products. Barbarism (anarcho-free market-etc. but never capitalism since capital investments are only made where a return can be guaranteed) will never serve as a basis for investment and development since there is no way to reasonably expect to be around long enough to get the pay back.

If it isn't large scale it's just more bullshit on the already smoldering pile dumped on this list to date. Because it works for twelve people in an isolated environment in no way signifies that it will scale to level of a nation.

Sorry, if ain't large scale and long lasting it ain't real.

>>>>
I agree with you that most utopianist ranting here carries a strong whiff of frustration and steam venting.  To those anarcho-capitalists, I recommend the course of action I took 25 years ago.  If you don't like the state you live in, don't patronize it.  There are many save harbors in the world that better approach your ideals, and are more amenable to change, than the Union of Socialist Americans. 

"Educate, don't agitate". 


<<<<

I left the good ol' USA too. I now live in a European country with a strong socialistic government and I actually find very little interference in my day to day life. In fact there seems to be a much higher awareness that each individual is responsible for his and her actions. At the very least there aren't as many lawyers claiming everyone is a victim of something or another (ie. too hot coffee, slippery floors, home owners that shot the poor intruder who didn't get a warning first, etc.) 

Ain't no where perfect, anarcho-whatever was done about 4000 years ago, I generally prefer to look forward...

APF




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: jake  
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 15:18:14 +0800
To: 
Subject: Important news from DAVOC  (-flash3 site-)
Message-ID: <419.436109.95012708jake116@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



   

   Greetings from the Underground......
   this message is presented to you by the U.S.


   http://www.DAVOC.com  




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Reeza! 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 22:16:44 +0800
To: Adam Back 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981110233948.00855b80@205.83.192.13>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 11:11 PM 11/9/98 GMT, Adam Back wrote:
>
>Vladimir writes:
>> what we really need is a government which can personalize its
>> services, and people pay for what they use. 
>
>yes, agree.  In other words we need freedom for business to compete in
>provision of all services currently monopolised by government.

I think a distinction needs to be made between what they (the Sheeple{tm})
NEED and what they "Request for Convenience". Wrongfull lawsuits and
welfare careerists in mind, I think this is an important distinction.

--snip--

>If you can opt out of literally any goverment service, I suspect
>government revenues would nearly disappear.  Everything they "supply"
>can be supplied more cheaply by business.  So what government remained
>would have to compete on a fair basis with private industry.

Not so fast, Kimosabe- what business would rule against itself a la the
Supreme Court against Congress, when a business decision was spiritually
and/or lawfully in violation of the constitution and legitimately passed
laws enacted since its inception???

>> the big quandary is people who can't pay for what they use
>> like social security. ultimately the question is how much
>> money the state has the authority to collect for this kind of
>> thing, and the political answer has varied every year, but it
>> has gone up every year in the 20th century generally.
>
>I think the state should have no authority to collect anything.
>Charity at the point of a gun is not charity.  The state is an
>extremely inefficient distributor of charitable funds anyway.

This goes back to the "what they NEED vs. what they request for convenience
(theirs)" argument.

>> the big problem imho is fraud/waste/corruption in govt though.  I

definitely a problem. Should AP politics apply??? What would be the method
of redress for infractions that were so heinous that the perpetrator was
deemed untrustworthy and removal from office the only recourse? Who would
"remove" the heinous individual for incarceration in an appropriate
facility??? Who would decide that such action was warranted???

>> think if a lot of it were eliminated we would be flabbergasted at
>> how little a personal contribution it takes to take care of people
>> who need it. bureaucracies are the most expensive thing on the
>> planet. here's hoping that cyberspace will cut through the
>> *ultimate* middleman: govt.
>
>Amen to that.
>
>Adam

Perhaps we should view the internet as a wedge, not as the fulcrum, lever
and force. I think it would be intuitive, instructive, and demonstrative to
operate on that premise rather than the "here is the internet, my trump
card, I rest my case" style of argument.

Reeza!


	If you see a man approaching you with the obvious intention 
	of doing you good, you should run for your life.
				-stolen from a cypherpunk sig




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Reeza! 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 22:21:04 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: RE: How to solve the tax problem w/o anarchy or force (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <5F152E6E8E6FD21195DF00104B2425AD02B275@yarrowbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981110234947.008717d0@205.83.192.13>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 05:25 PM 11/9/98 -0800, Matthew James Gering wrote:
>
>Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote:
>
>> cpunks actually contribute to this problem with their nihilistic
>> philosophy in general. the msg is that it is a waste of time
>> to engage in group activity or political discourse or lobbying
>> against the govt or organization or *whatever*... it's actually
>> just a variant on the sheeple passivity.
>
>
>"If you think of yourselves as helpless and ineffectual, it is 
>certain that you will create a despotic government to be your 
>master. The wise despot, therefore, maintains among his subjects 
>a popular sense that they are helpless and ineffectual." 
>                          --Frank Herbert, The Dosadi Experiment 
>
>
>I don't think many cpunks (and other freedom loving people) are necessarily
>nihilistic so much as they have come to the conclusion that to ignore and/or
>subvert government has higher probability of success than trying to reform
>it -- much to the demise of the Libertarian Party. The whole cryptography
>and geodesic communications being the bane of the nation-state theme tends
>to support this idea.
>
>	Matt

The problem is ill-defined. 
the Problem is ill-defined.
the problem is Ill-Defined.

The problem is not cpunks, it is the perception others have towards cpunks.
I think the laws of society will prevent the message(tm) from reaching the
Sheeple(tm) because it would be a disruption in the Daily Routine(tm).

Who coined the phrase; "a sane man, in an insane society...."

Reeza!
 _____________________________________________________________________
|                                                                     |
|   "It is a doctrine of war not to assume the enemy will not come,   |
|    but rather to rely on one's readiness to meet him..."            |
|                                                                     |
|				      		--  Sun Tsu           |
|_____________________________________________________________________|




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Reeza! 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 22:31:48 +0800
To: Adam Back 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981110235838.007dd830@205.83.192.13>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 12:27 AM 11/10/98 GMT, Adam Back wrote:
>
>Christopher Petro writes:
>> 	In other words Jim, Fuck You. I, and I'd bet most people here,
>> including Mr. May, are perfectly willing, and hell even eager to pay their
>> share, to assume their social responcibility, they just get very, very
>> angry at having to pay OTHER peoples social responcibility, and get very,
>> very angry at having to pay for other shit (Senate Luncheons and Swimming
>> Pools, the Militaries greatly inflated budget, all the waste that is todays
>> federal government).
--interrupt--

I would question, sagely (IMHO), 

do not confuse the military budget- you know, the Military budget- with the
NSA portion of the military budget- last I heard they were getting about
1/3rd. Meanwhile, the lowly Military- Navy at least, is operating at 3 or 4
X the prior tempo with a significantly reduced portion of that military
budget.

Gee, is the current administration trying to reduce military infrastructure
by wearing it out- and not purchasing repair parts or replacements???

Or all the dollars going towards the DNA database, Echelon, and ???

--resume usual conversation--


>What is annoying is "charity" (social security) at the point of a gun.
>Our "conscience" is being decided by government which is acting as a
>broker for those lobby for their "need" and for your assets to be
>stolen and redistributed to them.
>
>What people aren't willing to pay for shouldn't happen.  Period.  If
>that means people starve well those complaining loudest had better
>dig deeper into their pockets.
>
>Anything else is socialism tending to facism, as Hayek argues in The
>Road to Serfdom.
>
>> >No state can govern those who don't wish to be governed, violence or no.
>> 
>> 	Yes, but a state can kill those who don't wish to be governed. Can
>> and does routinely.
>
>That's what's so interesting about cyberspace, once the payment
>systems get there -- government thugs can't beat up, murder, or
>incarcerate anonymous nyms.  _Then_ Jim's "No state can govern those
>who don't wish to be governed" starts to become true.
>
>Adam
>
>
>

	If you see a man approaching you with the obvious intention 
	of doing you good, you should run for your life.
				-stolen from a cypherpunk sig




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Reeza! 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 22:59:39 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com
Subject: Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199811100205.UAA14919@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981111001918.00858100@205.83.192.13>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 08:05 PM 11/9/98 -0600, Jim Choate wrote:
>Forwarded message:
>
>> Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 15:27:14 -0500
>> From: Petro 
>> Subject: Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone
>>  (fwd)

--snip--

>> 	In other words Jim, Fuck You. I, and I'd bet most people here,
>> including Mr. May, are perfectly willing, and hell even eager to pay their
>> share, to assume their social responcibility, they just get very, very
>> angry at having to pay OTHER peoples social responcibility, and get very,

I was following the discourse in this post avidly, until I came to this
paragraph.

You do not know what Tim May thinks. No one except Tim May knows what Tim
May thinks. Your presumption is an insult to Tim May, and everyone else who
might happen to be "graced" by your presumption of what "they" think.

I suggest you take your own advice, don't choke when you swallow. Remember,
you deserve it.

You lose.



	If you see a man approaching you with the obvious intention 
	of doing you good, you should run for your life.
				-stolen from a cypherpunk sig




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: PCBSUPPORT@PICOBELLO.COM
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 08:55:59 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: PiCoBello-Web-Speed-Installation-Instructions
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Hi,


Thanks for downloading our software.Please go through download-instruction.



PiCoBello  Web-Speed  wird  vorerst wie eine volle Version laufen.
Nach 20 mal Abspeichern, oder nach 30 Tagen ab Installationsdatum,
folgt  ein  passives  Demonstrationsprogramm  ohne  die Funktionen
Speichern und Drucken.

Bei  Bezahlungen mit Kreditkarte gewährt PiCoBello Web-Speed für 2
Wochen eine Geld  zurück  Garantie.

Sollten Sie Probleme haben, schreiben Sie uns bitte eine Email,wir
helfe Ihnen gerne.

Ihr PiCoBello Web-Speed Team. 

http://www.web-speed.com























From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Reeza! 
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 00:17:40 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com
Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199811100252.UAA15446@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981111012502.0085b210@205.83.192.13>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 08:52 PM 11/9/98 -0600, Jim Choate wrote:
>Forwarded message:
>
>> Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 13:23:20 -0500
>> From: Petro 
>> Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone
>>  (fwd)
>
>> 	Usualy !=3D Correctly.
>> 
>> 	Take tomatoes. Perfectly legal (AFAIK) everywhere, here in this
>> country a 5 year old child can buy a tomato from a farmer with a stand on
>> the side of the road.
>> 
>> 	If you go back 10 years, and if "this country" was the soviet
>> union, a tomato purchased from the wrong person could get you in trouble.
>
>So what are saying...that because any government ever happened to abuse its
>citizens in a particular way is justification to do away with all
>government?
>
>This is a strawman.


I think there may be a finer distiction- it lies in corruption of the
enforcing body. A tomato purchased on the black market is significant of 
	a) a seller with goods
	b) a buyer with money
	c) a buyer who can be fined for making purchases on the black
	   market because they obviously have money.

This is the same sort of tactic imho as the war on drugs(tm). Big show,
little enforcement, extract money from the money holders. Money exchanges =
leniency.

--snip--


>> 	I still maintain that as one moves closer to a completely free
>> market, there is less and less of a black market, and to be the extrememe
>> case of a free market, there would be the potential to trade in both human
>> lives, and in stolen property.
>
>Well, at least you're an honest eco-anarchist. And how do you propose to stop
>this sort of behaviour (it's clear that there is a market whether the
>economy is free-market or not) without some sort of 3rd party arbiter (call
>it government or not is irrelevant to the point)?


Aside from the comment on honesty, the rest of this reply is sophistry.
Petro was asserting a point, which Jim acknowledged, then procedes to
assassinate with particulars of questionable relevance. In a true anarchy,
who is to say that trade in human lives and stolen property must be stopped
in that "true free market"???


>> In a free market, the selling of stolen
>> goods might not be a crime in and of itself, but the posession of those
>> things could be,
>
>How the hell do you sell something on the black market if you don't have
>possession of it? And exactly who is going to prosecute anyone for
>possession? Since we've done away with laws governing economics and trade
>there isn't even a court to try the perps in if we did apprehend them
>ourselves.

I smell straw man. A reseller is not necessarily a "possessor". By virtue
of this loophole in existing law (which *could* become the rule de jour),
many items are offered for sale, which are not necessarily legal to
"possess". Don't say name "one", 'cuz I already have it in mind. Does a
black marketeer qualify as a "reseller"??? DamnIfyno. Is there a precedent
that would by honored in a society such as the hypothetical one being
discussed??? DamnIfyno again. But it is an interesting question, I think.
Most likely is that "protection monies" would get paid, the purchaser
arrested on his way _away_ from the *shop* where the purchase was made.


Reeza!


	If you see a man approaching you with the obvious intention 
	of doing you good, you should run for your life.
				-stolen from a cypherpunk sig




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 02:54:23 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Free Email as Anonymous Remailer Re: NPR is at it again...
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981111015237.0079f350@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>>Some commie law professor broad :-) is talking about how there oughtta be a
>>law against anonymous remailers, deja news, and various forms of "illegal"
>>email...   >>The ganglia twitch...
>
>like hotmail and yahoo mail??? these are *awesome* remailers. I picked
>up a yahoo mail account recently and am blown away with all the *FEATURES*!!
>separate folders, filtering, external mailboxes support through POP,
>binary attachments, my gosh!!!!! my cup runneth over, for free, TOTALLY
>ANONYMOUS   check it out cpunks, a cpunk wet dream!!

They're NOT SECURE!  But Web anonymizers can fix most of the holes.
In particular, Hotmail + www.anonymizer.com is a reasonable
substitute for the old penet.fi remailer.

There are scurrilous rumors that some people actually put bogus information on 
their free email accounts!  (My cat certainly didn't do that :-)
But the portal services can keep records of who's connecting to them,
at least by IP address, which can be traced back to ISPs,
and from there back to phone lines, etc., depending on the extent
of records the various ISPs keep.  It's not enough without anonymizers.

I suspect this is what will replace the current remailer system -
chaining through some set of Crowds, Onions, and commercial and free
anonymizers to reach a free email system to transmit and receive email.
An interesting project would be a free low-volume anonymizer cgi for Apache,
given the large number of current users and the much larger number
of people who will run web servers once they have cable modems.

				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Reeza! 
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 01:09:53 +0800
To: Quirk 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981111021629.007b8460@205.83.192.13>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 10:47 PM 11/9/98 -0800, Quirk wrote:
>
>--mark--
>-hedges- reviews http://pub.anonymizer.com/~lcchrist
>
>The National Socialist Church of Christ espouses a turning away from the
>old era figuring Hitler and the current Destruction of the Earth Part II
>as the antichrist ending the cycle of Pisces. In the next phase of polar
--snip--

Your prose panders to others of your mindset, but you are all mistaken.

--begin pasted text--

It is a Christian belief that life and immortality were brought to light,
and death, the last enemy, was destroyed by a personal Jesus only 2,000
years ago. The very same revelation had been accredited to Horus (a major
egyptian god), the anointed, at least 3,000 years before. Horus, as the
impersonal and ideal revealer, was the Messiah in the astronomical
mythology and the Son of God in the eschatology. The doctrine of
immortality is so ancient in Egypt that the "Book of Vivifying the Soul
Forever" was not only extant in the time of the First Dynasty but was then
so old that the true tradition of interpretation was at that time already
lost.

The Egyptian Horus, as revealer of immortality, was the ideal figure of the
ancient spritualists that the soul of man, or the Manes, persisted beyond
death and the dissolution of the present body.

The Origin and Evolution

We find, depicted on stones in many countries where the Stellar Cult people
migrated, remains of the old Astronomical religion which proves their
perfect knowledge of the revolutions of the Starry Vast and the Laws
governing these revolutions, all of which they imaged iconographically or
by Signs and Symbols. And where they have not built Pyramids they have
recorded the truth in the so-called "Cups and Rings" and "curious carvings"
found on boulders, cist-covers, on living rock, and on standing stones
throughout the British Isles, Europe, Asia, Africa, and other parts of the
world - which hitherto have been deemed to involve insoluble problems and
have been to all our learned professors an outstanding puzzle in
pre-historic research. But they are easily read, and the secrets are
unfolded in the Sign Language of the Astronomical, or Stellar Cult Religion
of the Ancient Egyptians.

The mutilation of Osiris in his coffin, the stripping of his corpse and
tearing it asunder by Set, who scattered it piecemeal, has its equivalent
by the stripping of the dead body of Jesus whilst it still hung upon the
Cross, and parting the garments amongst the spoilers. 

In St. John's account the crucifixion takes place at the time of the
Passover, and the victim of sacrifice in human form is substituted for, and
identified with, the Paschal Lamb. But, as this version further shows, the
death assigned is in keeping with that of the non-human victim. Not a bone
of the sufferer to be broken. This is supposed to be in fulfilment of
prophecy. It is said by the Psalmist (34:20): "He keepeth all His bones;
not one of them is broken". But this was in strict accordance with the
original law of Tabu. No matter what the type, from bear to lamb, no bone
of the sacrificial victim was ever permitted to be broken; and the only
change was in the substitution of the human type for the animal, which had
been made already when human Horus became the type of sacrifice instead of
the calf or lamb. When the Australian natives sacrificed their little bear,
not a bone of it was ever broken. When the Iroquois sacrificed the white
dog, not a bone was broken. This was a common custom, on account of the
resurrection as conceived by the primitive races, and the same is applied
to Osiris-Horus. Every bone of the skeleton was to remain intact as a basis
for the future building.

It is an utterance of the Truth that is eternal to say that Horus as the
Son of God had previously been all the Gospel Jesus is made to say his is,
or is to become:

Horus and the Father are one;

*Jesus says, "I and my Father are one". He that seeth Me, seeth Him that
sent me".
*Horus is the Father seen in the Son.
*Jesus claims to be the Son in whom the Father is revealed.

*Horus was the light of the world, the light that is represented by the
symbolical eye, the sign of salvation.
*Jesus is made to declare that He is the light of the world.

*Horus was the way, the truth, the life by name and in person.
*Jesus is made to assert that he is the way, the truth, and the life.

*Horus was the plant, the shoot, the natzar.
*Jesus is made to say: "I am the true vine".

*Horus says: "It is I who traverse the heaven; I go around the Sekhet-Arru
(the Elysian Fields); Eternity has been assigned to me without end. Lo! I
am heir of endless time and my attribute is eternity".
*Jesus says: "I am come down from Heaven. For this is the will of the
Father that everyone who beholdeth the Son and believeth in Him should have
eternal life, and I willl raise him up at the last day"
He, too, claims to be the lord of eternity.

*Horus says: "I open the Tuat that I may drive away the darkness"
*Jesus says: "I am come a light unto the world."

*Horus says: (I am equipped with thy words O Ra (the father in
heaven)(ch.32) and repeat them to those who are deprived of breath.
(ch.38). These were the words of the father in heaven.
*Jesus says: "The Father which sent me, he hath given me a commandment,
what I should say and what I should speak. Whatsoever I speak, therefore,
even as the Father said unto me, so I speak the word which ye hear is not
mine, but the Father's which sent me".


   A comparative list of some pre-existing types to Christianity shows
further how these types were brought on in the canonical Gospels and the
Book of Revelation:

*Horus baptized with water by Anup = Jesus baptized with water by John.

*Aan, a name of the divine scribe = John the divine scribe.

*Horus born in Annu, the place of bread = Jesus born in Bethlehem, the
house of bread

*Horus the Good Shepherd with the crook upon his shoulders = Jesus the Good
Shepherd with the lamb or kid upon his shoulder

*The Seven on board the boat with Horus = The seven fishers on board the
boat with Jesus

*Horus as the Lamb = Jesus as the Lamb.

*Horus as the Lion = Jesus as the Lion

*Horus identified with the Tat or Cross = Jesus identified with the Cross

*Horus of twelve years = Jusus of twelve years

*Horus made a man of thirty years in his baptism = Jesus made a man of
thirty years in his baptism

*Horus the Krst = Jesus the Christ

*Horus the manifesting Son of God = Jesus the manifesting Son of God

* The trinity of Atum the Father, Horus the Son, and Ra the Holy Spirit =
The trinity of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

*The first Horus as child of the Virgin, the second as Son of Ra = Jesus as
the Virgin's child, the Christ as Son of the Father.

*Horus the sower and Set the destroyer in the harvestfield = Jesus the
sower of the good seed and Satan the sower of tares.

*Horus carried of by Set to the summit of Mount Hetep = Jesus spirited away
by Satan into an exceedingly high mountain

*Set and Horus contending on the Mount = Jesus and Satan contending on the
Mount.

*Horus as Iu-em-Hetep, the child teacher in the temple = The child Jesus as
teacher in the Temple

* The mummy bandage that was woven without seam = The vesture of the Christ
without a seam.

*Twelve followers of Horus as Har-Khutti = Twelve followers of Jesus as the
twelve disciples.

        -Excerpt from Churchwar's book "Of Religion", first published 1924.
Reprints are available from Health Research, Mokelumne Hills, CA 95245.
Churchware was a student of the British poet and Egyptologist Gerald Massey. -

-- end pasted text--

In conclusion, GO AWAY.

Reeza!


	If you see a man approaching you with the obvious intention 
	of doing you good, you should run for your life.
				-stolen from a cypherpunk sig




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: b!X 
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 21:44:59 +0800
To: Reeza! 
Subject: Re: IP: Clinton Wants Loophole In U.S. Free Speech Closed
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981111182325.00879d50@205.83.192.13>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Wed, 11 Nov 1998, Reeza! wrote:

> Amendment I
> Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or
> prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech,
> or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to
> petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
> 
> Amendment II
> A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State,
> the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. 
> 
> --end pasted text--
> 
> While the 2nd does say "well regulated", it should also be pointed out that
> the 1st does not say "right OF THE PEOPLE", except in the freedom of
> assembly clause.

And notice also that the 1st begins with "Congress shall make no law" while
the 2nd begins with "a well regulated militia".

> >(And yes I know I'm asking for a shitstorm of trouble saying that on THIS
> >list of all places).
> 
> So why did you?

Becos the attempted paraody was lame in the same ways that all attempts to
nonrationally support 2nd amendment freedoms by calling down the gods of 1st
amendment freeomds always are nonrational. (And no, that's not me saying
supporting 2nd amendment freedoms is irrational; it's me saying using the
1st amendment to do so is irrational).


- b!X (Guerrilla Techno-fetishist @ GEEK Force)






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: b!X 
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 21:46:37 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: IP: Clinton Wants Loophole In U.S. Free Speech Closed (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199811110331.VAA22384@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Tue, 10 Nov 1998, Jim Choate wrote:

> > Yeah yeah all very well and good parody except that the 2nd amendment
> > contains the word "well-regulated" and the 1st doesn't. 
> > 
> > (And yes I know I'm asking for a shitstorm of trouble saying that on THIS
> > list of all places).
> 
>  
> 				ARTICLE I. 
> 	Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, 
> or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of 
> speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, 
> and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. 
>  
> 				ARTICLE II. 
> 	A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a 
> free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be 
> infringed. 
>  
> 
> I'd say that 'shall make no law' is a clear as 'shall not be infringed' and
> pretty equivalent in meaning.

Same comments as before. Utiizing the text of the 1st to defend one's
approach to the 2nd is nonrational, which is what the lame parody attempted
to do, and what I was criticizing.


- b!X (Guerrilla Techno-fetishist @ GEEK Force)






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 14:18:11 +0800
To: Adam Back 
Subject: Re: charity at the point of a gun (Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect  Foregone)(fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199811100027.AAA07402@server.eternity.org>
Message-ID: <199811110544.GAA28375@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Adam Back  wrote:

> What is annoying is "charity" (social security) at the point of a gun.
> Our "conscience" is being decided by government which is acting as a
> broker for those lobby for their "need" and for your assets to be
> stolen and redistributed to them.
> 
> What people aren't willing to pay for shouldn't happen.  Period.  If
> that means people starve well those complaining loudest had better
> dig deeper into their pockets.

Imagine one of your kids had an accident and needed more expensive care
than you can pay for. Would you accept government "charity"?




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 21:51:06 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: IP: Clinton Wants Loophole In U.S. Free Speech Closed (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811111333.HAA23673@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 05:27:11 -0800 (PST)
> From: b!X 
> Subject: Re: IP: Clinton Wants Loophole In U.S. Free Speech Closed

> And notice also that the 1st begins with "Congress shall make no law" while
> the 2nd begins with "a well regulated militia".

> Becos the attempted paraody was lame in the same ways that all attempts to

Hey, can I use that spelling of 'because'? I want to irritate a particular
wanna-be-english-teacher subsribed to the CDR...;)

> nonrationally support 2nd amendment freedoms by calling down the gods of 1st
> amendment freeomds always are nonrational. (And no, that's not me saying
> supporting 2nd amendment freedoms is irrational; it's me saying using the
> 1st amendment to do so is irrational).

Yep, you have to use the 9th and 10th as well. In for a penny end for a
pound.
 
				ARTICLE IX. 
 
	The enumeration of the Constitution, of certain rights, shall 
not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people. 
  
				ARTICLE X. 
 
	The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, 
nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, 
or to the people. 
 


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 21:55:28 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: IP: Clinton Wants Loophole In U.S. Free Speech Closed (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811111335.HAA23736@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 05:30:22 -0800 (PST)
> From: b!X 
> Subject: Re: IP: Clinton Wants Loophole In U.S. Free Speech Closed (fwd)

> > I'd say that 'shall make no law' is a clear as 'shall not be infringed' and
> > pretty equivalent in meaning.
> 
> Same comments as before. Utiizing the text of the 1st to defend one's
> approach to the 2nd is nonrational, which is what the lame parody attempted
> to do, and what I was criticizing.

I'm not using the 1st to justify the second, all I'm saying is the two
related phrases are equivalent within the context of the Constitution. It's
semantics.

Or are you saying that if you go slow enough it's as good as a stop? How
slow is slow enough?


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 22:21:55 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Question about insurance managed fire services... (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811111402.IAA24089@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 14:50:12 +0100
> From: Anonymous 
> Subject: Re: Question about insurance managed fire services...

> Jim Choate writes:
> > 
> > How does company A guarantee that company B won't begin to burn down the
> > customers of company A so that the economic impact on A is sufficient they
> > can't participate in the market?
> 
> How does it do so now?

Insurance regulatory agencies who monitor the behavior, investigation by a
reasonably impartial fire dept after every fire. That's at least two.

> Fucking idiot. Do you imagine that the customers of company A (and
> their police, security force or other guardian) will stand idly by
> while their homes (the implied target) are burned?

What police and security forces? You mean the ones the same insurance
company co-oped?

What makes you thing that Company A or B will even advertise their actions?

Who says the homes will be burned when the residents are even home? It isn't
like anyone is going to ask their permission.

And I'm the 'fucking idiot'.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 22:33:24 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: DCSB: Risk Management is Where the Money Is; Trust in DigitalCommerce
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


To: dcsb@ai.mit.edu
Subject: Re: DCSB: Risk Management is Where the Money Is; Trust in Digital
Commerce
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 23:40:49 -0500
From: Dan Geer 
Sender: bounce-dcsb@ai.mit.edu
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: Dan Geer 





-----------------8<----------------cut-here----------------8<-----------------



Nominal delivery draft

-------------------------------------
Risk Management is Where the Money Is
-------------------------------------

Digital Commerce Society of Boston
3 November 98

Daniel E. Geer, Jr., Sc.D.
Senior Strategist, CertCo, Inc.
55 Broad Street, NYC, and
100 Cambridgepark Drive, Cambridge
geer@certco.com


Given my biases, I am going to describe where the future of the
security marketplace is and where it is not. I will argue that the
financial community is and remains the place to look for "first light"
for new security technology. I will give you a rundown of what's new
while I predict what little time is left for many of today's products,
purveyors and regulators. I will argue that, in many ways, the party's
over for the security field as we know it now. I will range broadly
because security, as a concept, is universal.

"Nothing is so powerful as an idea whose time has come."  For security
technology, that time is now. IBM calls the three requirements of the
"e-business" future as: #1 security, #2 scalability, and #3
integration. Forrester, Gartner, META, Yankee and all the other
analysts agree -- the most important enabling technology for electronic
business, besides network connectivity itself, is security. AD Little
estimates that security, privacy and the legal issues of digital
signature together constitute over half of the quantifiable barriers to
electronic commerce. There are whole venture funds whose investment
focus is around security.  Security startups are everywhere; so are
security books. The word "security" is hardly rare in employment
advertisements.  You cannot walk a trade show and not see the word
"security" in screaming big type. The number of security meetings is
preposterous.  Presidential Commissions are busy spending real money on
security for the information systems that run the country.

"In the future, everyone will each get 15 minutes of fame." That
applies to security,too.  Today's security specialty companies cannot
all survive; they can be eclipsed by the platform vendors too easily.
Only platform vendors can deliver security that is integrated enough to
scale and invisible enough to ignore.  Even the Justice Department
knows that once something is in the operating system, any independent
market for it collapses. Yes, security's time may well have come, but
in a Warhol world, that would mean that it is about time to go.

The focus of "security" research today is the study of "trust
management" -- how trust is defined, created, annotated, propagated,
circumscribed, stored, exchanged, accounted for, recalled and
adjudicated in our electronic world.  This is natural because security
is a means and not an end.  This is mature because all technology
differentiates along cost-benefit lines.  All the security technology
that you can buy today enables some aspect of trust management and
novel variations show up daily.

You can walk out of this hall and buy systems that use passwords that
get local machines to trust you enough to let you in. You can buy smart
cards that can do your cryptographic calculations for you, respond to
challenges, hold your keys inviolable or, more interestingly, have
identities of their own and serve merely to introduce you on their own
terms. You can buy biometric devices that look at your voice, your
face, your retina, your fingerprint, or even the idiosyncrasies of how
you learned to type and so say, "Yep, that's the guy." You can get
systems that are sufficiently hardened that you can rely on them if for
no other reason they are so nearly useless no one would want to break
in. You can still get your hands on security systems in the raw and
roll your own directly from source-code.  You can, anywhere, anytime,
spin-up virtual private networks that are trustworthy protectors of
your confidentiality however hostile the intervening wires are. You can
even deliver privacy between strangers -- nearly a matter of creating
trust in order to propagate it. You can put a document into the
Eternity Service and trust that it can never be erased or you can put
it into a cryptographic file system and trust that it can never be
found.  Simple? Yes; academics and entrepreneurs alike are busy
supplying ways to propagate trust.

They have it all wrong.

If you ever took a course in probability then you know that many
problems are solved by calculating their dual -- the probability of
"not X" can be a whole lot more tractable than figuring Pr(X) directly.
If you're in a security-based startup company, then you'll know that
making money requires making excitement, even if the excitement is
somebody else's public humiliation. And all of you can agree that the
more important something is, the more it must be managed. Trust
management is surely exciting, but like most exciting ideas it is
unimportant. What is important is risk management, the sister, the dual
of trust management. And because risk management makes money, it drives
the security world from here on out.

Every financial firm of any substance has a formal Risk Management
Department that consumes a lion's share of the corporate IT budget.
The financial world in its entirety is about packaging risk so that it
can be bought and sold, i.e., so that risk can be securitized and
finely enough graded to be managed at a profit. Everything from the
lowly car loan to the most exotic derivative security is a risk-reward
tradeoff. Don't for a minute underestimate the amount of money to be
made on Wall Street, London and/or Tokyo when you can invent a new way
to package risk. The impact of Moore's Law on the financial world is
inestimable -- computing has made that world rich because it has
enabled risk packaging to grow ever more precise, ever more real-time,
ever more differentiated, ever more manageable. You don't have to
understand forward swaptions, collateralized mortgage obligations,
yield burning, or anything else to understand that risk management is
where the money is. In a capitalist world, if something is where the
money is, that something rules.  Risk is that something.

Security technology has heretofore been about moving trust around as if
risk is definitionally undesirable and reliable trust management simply
obviates the issue of risk.  It does not come close. In two years time
the "trust-hauling" market will be somewhere on the down-slope between
legacy and dead.  Risk management is going to take over as the dominant
paradigm because risk management can subsume trust, but trust
management cannot subsume risk. The Internet has made this so.

The Internet is irresistible because it lowers barriers to entry on a
global basis -- global in both space and time.  Ever more important
parts of the world's economy exist only in cyberspace, and lead times
have entirely collapsed.  Every professional fortune teller is bidding
geometric increases in the dollar volume of electronic commercial
activity. But when there is enough booty available, even absurdly
difficult attacks become plausible. This is the world we are in. It
will never be possible to really do the job of trust management any
more than it is possible to really win an arms race or really preclude
your car from being stolen. But risk management -- that is doable and
it is doable at a profit. The proof is all around us.

We are a score of years down this road. 1978 was a vintage security
year; the remarkable papers by Rivest, Shamir & Adleman and Needham &
Schroeder were published, both in CACM as it happens. The former
introduced public key ideas and the latter created Kerberos. The
counterpoint between these two technologies is instructive. Both
symmetric cryptosystems, like Kerberos, and asymmetric cryptosystems,
like RSA, do the same thing -- that is to say they do key distribution
-- but the semantics are quite different. The fundamental
security-enabling activity of a secret key system is to issue fresh
keys at low latency and on demand. The fundamental security-enabling
activity of an asymmetric key system is to verify the as-yet-unrevoked
status of a key already in circulation, again with low latency and on
demand. This is key management and it is a systems cost; a secret key
system like Kerberos has incurred nearly all its costs by the moment of
key issuance. By contrast, a public key system incurs nearly all its
costs with respect to key revocation.  Hence, a rule of thumb: The cost
of key issuance plus the cost of key revocation is a constant, just yet
another version of "You can pay me now or you can pay me later."

Because of the tradeoffs between who pays for what part of the systems
cost and who gets the benefit, secret key systems and public key
systems have different fields of use. Secret key systems are fast and
offer revocation at no marginal cost. Public key systems are slow but
they enable digital signature and thus enable proof of action,
non-repudiation as it is called. Secret key systems are the default
choice within an organization while public key systems are the default
choice between organizations, i.e., secret key for where security is an
intramural concern intramurally arbitrated, and public key for where
security is extramural thereby requiring recourse to a third party
judge in cases of dispute. The relentless blurring of what is
intramural and what is extramural will favor public key over time.

Because a trust management paradigm says that a digital signature is
only as valid as the key (in which it was signed) was at the moment of
signature, it is only as good as the procedural perfection of the
certificate issuer and the timely transmission of any subsequent
revocation. **These are high costs.** In fact, the true costs of
general public key infrastructure are so extraordinarily high that only
our collective ignorance of those costs permits us to propel ourselves
toward a general PKI as if it were a panacea.  When, not if, the user
community at large realizes this, we "security people" will have but
two choices, compromise on (gloss over) the quality of trust that
public key can deliver or back off from the claims of full trust cheap.
In other words, we'll have to fit the benefit to the endurable cost or
fit the cost to the requisite benefit.  Since, as a rule of thumb, to
halve the probability of loss you have to at least double the cost of
countermeasures, any finite tolerance of cost means an upper bound on
how much security you can get. In the fullness of time, security
technology will be evaluated on the same cost-benefit-risk tradeoff on
which other technologies are evaluated. This is the price of maturity;
this is the price not yet paid.

Do not misunderstand me; public key technology, secret key technology,
security technology in general are daily reaching new levels of
protective capability. What they cannot protect against is being
over-sold, and they are being over-sold. Why is that?

The days when the Internet was a toy are gone even if a high percentage
of its new investors are still coming in merely to avoid looking dowdy.
The real question on the table is: When does the Internet become more
like the data center. And what does making the Internet more like the
data center mean? At a minimum, it means metered use.  Discussions are
already widespread about requiring Internet postage; large ISPs will
probably demand it, existing postal services would love to sell it and
data centers, such as the financial giants, will get a better handle on
what goes in and out the door. At least one Wall Street bank already
does charge-back for network bandwidth consumption and their internal
electronic security regime plays a role in assigning those costs just
as, in turn, their security group manages the user database via
incremental updates rather than fresh full copies so as to minimize
their bandwidth charges. That's not postage, but it is close and it is
now.

Incremental use charges are but one example, interesting mostly because
they are a near term step toward making the Internet into a data
center. The fundamental value of the data center is the information it
holds. The past few years have seen data warehousing, data mining and
now connection of the data center to the Web, data publishing if you
will. MVS, for example, has a really good web server and someone in the
audience will have to convince me that there is a difference between a
1970's central time-share machine and an MVS web server in a swarm of
"thin clients" on fast networks. It certainly isn't the direct wire
connection -- SSL simulates that well enough. It surely isn't the
management model; the MIS director who had declared defeat in desktop
configuration management will, you can be sure, rejoice at getting
control back.

In the mainframe world, you move the computation to where the data is.
In a client server world, you move the data to where the computation
is. Web servers front-ending corporate databases attached to virtual
private networks full of some universal client like a web browser sure
sounds like a resurgence of the data center to me. The IBM 390 is a
good machine and the Wintel cartel has pretty much ensured that no
upstart will enter their space. From Wintel's point of view, using all
those desktop cycles for display functions is just fine. Could it be
that simple?

Financial markets made SUN what it is today and vice versa -- SUN's
first big win, the first big demonstration that computing power had
risen to such a degree that moving the data to where the computing is
made sense, "the network is the computer" and all that. Financial
markets, in the sense of traders going head to head, used that power to
replace whom you knew with what you know and set off a
technology-as-weapon metaphor that has overtaken most of the business
world. Financial Markets, in the sense of Exchanges, now rely on a
dense spread of computing that exceeds what most of us have to deal
with; more than one major bank has 15,000 FTP jobs a night just moving
data to or from its data center. Plenty of staff at the NYSE lose $1000
apiece for every 15 minutes the Exchange is late opening due to IT
unavailability. No computing equipment is too expensive when trumped
with "I can make that back on the first trade." No small country runs
its currency anymore.

There was once no question that the fundamental purpose of an exchange
was to provide "an advantage of time and place" to those who would
trade on it and, in so doing, establish efficiency and liquidity
baselines against which others would be judged.  Beginning first with
the "Paperwork Crisis" in the 60's and reaching a crescendo after the
"Crash of '87," the Exchanges have been fully committed to electronic
commerce before that phrase meant anything.  But since the Internet,
time and place are meaningless and the Exchanges know it. They are
working hard to make oversight, fair play and quality of service into
new baselines. Clearly, security technology is #1 in their list of
requirements followed closely by scalability and integration.

Security in a financial world market that is both nowhere and
everywhere is a difficult thing to define well enough to solve, but if
there is anything to engineering as a discipline then it is that the
heavy work is in getting the problem statement right. So, to return to
my central premise, if new security technology is a result of
investment and if the investment in security technology is naturally
centered within the financial community, what is the problem statement?
** If we get that right, we can predict the future. **

I submit that the problem statement is how to bring a transactional
semantic to the Internet. This is not a new problem, but it is an as
yet unsolved one. The existing financial markets want transactions
because transactions are what they are about and transactions are what
they know. Upstarts like the payment vendors want to be the first to
deliver transactions and disintermediate the financial firms.
Technical legal beagles reason that there is no transaction without
recourse, no recourse without contract, no contract without
non-repudiation and no non-repudiation without digital signature.
Anyone who wants to do business on the Web needs transactions.

Hal Varian, an economist and Dean of the Information Management School
at Berkeley, taught me that what the Internet changes more than
anything else is that it brings the efficiency of auction to markets
that never had that option.  This is a cover story in this week's "The
Industry Standard." Auctions need security technology because what
makes an auction an auction is the ability to conclude a transaction
which, by its own execution, "discovers" a price. In other words, the
nature of the world's economy is changed by the existence of the
Internet, but only on the condition that electronic transactions are up
to job.

So what do I mean by "transaction?" I mean a non-repudiable
communication between two parties who can each verify the time-, value-
and content-integrity of that communication, who can presume
confidentiality of that communication, who can verify the authenticity
and authorization of their counterparty and who can present all these
evidences to third party adjudication should there be a need for
recourse at any arbitrary time in the future. **Every single part of
that definition begs the question of security mechanism.**  It is on
that basis I claim that the security technology of tomorrow will be
crafted in response to the unmet needs of financial markets today.

As an example, your handwritten signature on a check is what, in
principle, authorizes that funds move from A to B. In truth, from a
bank's point of view, actually verifying handwritten signatures is a
transaction cost that is not worth bearing unless the cost of
verification is less than the risk of loss. At the largest banks, the
threshold dollar amount below which verification does not really happen
is a closely guarded number, but it generally exceeds $20,000 and still
they have platoons of people doing this all day, every day. Converting
the means of signature verification from a manual process into a
machine-able one would radically change the economics of check
processing. It would add billions to lines and do it from the
cost-avoidance side of the ledger.

But that is not all. Some $300B of U.S. payments are made every day of
which only $60B are in the form of checks; the balance is largely in
cash transactions of $5 or less. From both the merchant's and the
bank's perspectives, getting rid of cash would be a huge win because
handling costs for small dollar amounts often exceed the profit margins
on the underlying sales.  While the consumer may well adopt cashless
payment out of some sense of convenience, the financial side of the
house will enable it to avoid costs.

Only this morning, Frost & Sullivan released a study that defines
e-commerce as "commercial transactions taking place over the Internet
with exchange of value in real time."  Web payment sparked numerous
startups with numerous different mechanisms. It is too late for you to
enter this market, but it is not too late for those payment-systems
vendors to rethink what they are trying to do. All of them are
suffering because the volume of Web-based retail business has not
picked up as fast as their business plans had presumed. For the retail
customer, the main thing the Web offers is product discovery; a good
print catalog and an 800 number are otherwise hard to beat. It is clear
that the real money in Web commerce is in business-to-business
commerce, but there the supply chain has a lot more complication and
the kinds of security mechanisms need to be better than those for
buying a toaster oven.  Whereas retail commerce is about small dollar
amounts and stranger-to-stranger transactions through a financial
intermediary like a credit-card company, business-to-business is more
about relationships, the dollar value of the sale is much bigger, and
banks play a direct role (through letters of credit, collateralized
bills of lading, etc.)

B2B commerce does not have a good solution yet. If you want to sell
into this market, be aware that the customer will buy either to avoid
costs he has now or to make revenue he doesn't have yet. In the case of
saving costs, you'll have to sell him the technology on a turnkey basis
-- he will not cut you into the transactional revenue stream. If you
can really show that your technology will make him revenue he did not
have a chance to make otherwise, you may be able to get a piece of the
revenue stream, but do not underestimate the cost-avoidance focus of
big buyers and sellers. As far out as 2005, over half the
Internet-transactions will be transactions converted from paper and
credit/debit cards, not new transactions. **When selling into a
cost-averse market you automate rather than revolutionize, and you do
not get a piece of the action.**

Everyone likes to talk about "disintermediating the banks," that is
making the intermediary role of banks in commerce less essential by
performing that service in some other way. Bill Gates is widely quoted
as saying that "Banks are dinosaurs." At the highest end, they are not
dinosaurs and they are not about to be disintermediated.  Whilst the
banks have a natural affection for their income streams, that doesn't
prevent disintermediation. Most wiseguys trying to disintermediate the
banks misunderstand what banks do. This is what they do: They interpose
their balance sheet between the expectations of the counterparties to a
transaction and the risk of default on either of their parts. They
undertake stop-loss protections against credit risk, insolvency,
operational failure, currency fluctuation, diversion of funds delivery,
etc. In other words, they manage risk because they can absorb loss.
**Electronic commerce payment technology cannot absorb loss, so it
cannot and will not disintermediate the banks.**

Think of this this way: All public key technology is driven to make a
digital signature verifiable, i.e., it is about quality control and
guarantee on the signature itself. This is a stunning thing, but it is
not the whole equation. The intermediation role that banks play is to
guarantee the transaction, i.e., it is broader than just the
verification of a signature. The bank's know-how and its balance sheet
are not something that can be replaced by a cryptographic calculation.
The ability to avoid loss never makes up for the ability to absorb
loss.  The cryptography guarantees the signature; the bank's capital
guarantees the transaction. **Risk control encapsulates trust.**

In the midst of this, you might say "What are the standards?" in the
sense of "What do the formal standards groups have to say?" The banking
world is regulation rich and standards rich, too, which begs the
question -- "Which standards matter?" The world of the Internet is
making some of the banking-centric standards passe' but, unlike the
combination of standards and regulations the banks are familiar with,
the standards groups of the Internet cannot take on accountability for
the implications of conformance/non-conformance though they continue to
define it for others. This makes Internet standards substantially
difficult to swallow because there is no accountability, nor can there
be. The absence of enforcement guarantees that the only Internet
standards that will really get attention are those that promote
interoperability across jurisdictional boundaries. Ironically, this is
all the pioneers of the Internet ever wanted.

What the banks want, and I assure you they will get, is a set of
cryptographically sophisticated tools that move the risks of the
Internet from open-ended to estimable. In a sense, this is like
insurability. It is probably apocryphal, but the story goes that a
major investment firm with a Web commerce idea went to a big insurance
company to seek stop loss protection. The conversation supposedly went
like this:

   "How big is the potential loss?"
   "We don't know."
   "How likely is a loss to occur?"
   "We don't know."
   "How much is your company worth?"
   "This much."
   "That's the premium; send it in."

Whether true or not, it illustrates the point -- the issue is getting a
handle on the risk such that it can be priced.  Every one of you who
has tried to sell security technology has discovered that the only
willing customers are those who either (1) have just been embarrassed
in public or (2) have just learned that they are facing an audit.
Everyone else is an unwilling customer.  We've been dumb about this;
we've tried to sell security as a means to establish trust but we've
done it by railing about threats. It's no damned wonder that we haven't
sold much. I know I have often wondered if my market might not explode
were I to get just one of the big loss-prevention insurers to make good
security practices and technology into an underwriting standard.  Then,
just like "Do you have sprinklers?" everyone is forced to confront
whether they want to pay for security or pay for non-security. I am
confident that the insurers could soften up my targets a lot better
than I can.

Let me tell you, they are about to. Insurability of Web commerce is
essential, and no insurer is going to accept "We don't know" as an
answer. They will say "Send it all in" and they'll mean it. The demand
side for security technology is exploding but it isn't quite the
security technology we have on hand.

If a digital signature has the uniquely irreplaceable property of
providing proof to a judge, then the role of a "trusted third party" is
going to become more important over time, not less.  Think of it this
way: when I get a certificate issued to me by a certifying authority, I
do have some risk around whether the CA is well operated or not. This
includes the probability they will issue a certificate with my public
key but someone else's name and whether when I tell them that my key
has been compromised they will spring into decisive action. Most of
that risk I can handle by a combination of due diligence and contract.

However, when I give my certificate to you and say "Hi, I'm here from
Central Services to fix your system" it is you that's in a risky
position. You have to say "Is this certificate valid?" That means you
have to check that the certificate is not listed as revoked, that the
signature on the certificate is well formed, that the certificate
authority which issued this certificate itself has an identity
certificate that is itself validly signed, that the certificate
authority is itself not in any trouble with revocation, and and so
forth, ** recursively. **

The full cost of revocation testing is proportional to the square of
the depth of the issuance hierarchy.  In other words, this exceeds the
intellectual capacity of most certificate recipients. This means that
most recipients cannot themselves rely on the security technology to
establish trust beyond the shadow of doubt. Instead, if recipients are
smart, they will turn again to the insurance world just as risk holders
have done whenever they cannot afford to carry on their books the
consequences of a remotely unlikely event. For the insurer, he will
underwrite a guarantee on the transaction for a fee that will reflect
his experience with the CA's practices, the kind of transaction
undertaken, the dollar amounts involved, etc.  This will seem sensible
to all parties because it is so familiar.  This is risk management
underwritten by financial intermediaries.  This is where we will
shortly be.  This is the card eight major banks and CertCo played ten
days ago -- the formation of "a global network of compliant businesses
that use a common risk management framework." **This is where we
securitize the transactional risk of electronic commerce.**

There is one potential fly in this ointment, and I do not intend to
dwell on it, but I cannot get this far and not mention the threat to
strong security apparati of having them undermined by key escrow.
Corporate policies and laws alike have always been defined in a
territorial way that relies on clearly identifiable borders, physical
locations where the policy or the law come to an end. But in the
electronic world borders are meaningless. In some sense, sovereignty,
based as it was on the idea of a border, is less meaningful now than
for some centuries. In its place is a different kind of sovereignty,
because the only borders in an electronic world are cryptographic ones.
As such, the debate over who may or may not have a key known only to
themselves is a proxy discussion for who may or may not have
sovereignty within a cryptographically defined space.

There are hard questions yet to answer. Compromised keys are revoked
effective not to the moment of suspicion of compromise but rather
retroactively to the last known time when the key was safe. In the case
of escrow, should not a key's owner retroactively revoke it to the
moment of its seizure from escrow should the owner later discover that
it has been so seized? Or if a revoked key is only revoked by the
action of the certifying authority signing a revocation notice in a
special key, can that revocation-signing key itself ever be revoked? If
it could, would that not invalidate (reverse) any revocations signed in
it and what does that mean? I only offer these so that you do not
equate my argument about the near-inevitability of investment in public
key technology and digital-signature-dependent activities with some
presumed infallibility of the technology or our understanding of it.
These questions will be settled one way or another, but they remain
open as we speak here today, and there is money to be made.

I have tried to lay out my estimation on which way the tide is running
and which moon's gravity matters. I could be completely wrong, or
merely overstating what my biases bring me, but I think not. I think
that just as the best estimate of tomorrow's weather is today's, the
best estimate of how the Internet and the financial behemoths will
interact is for the Internet to be driven, as a side effect, by the
cost-reduction and profit-incented strategies of those financial
behemoths.  They already transcend national boundaries and their
investment decisions do run the world.  Were this to get enough
investment, it might make security a solved problem at least as I
define "solved" to mean "consistent with risk management in the
insurance style." Since that would collapse the market for novel
security add-ons, I strongly suggest that as you prepare your business
plans you figure out how to be, as Tom Lehrer would say, a doctor
specializing in diseases of the rich.

This is a very exciting time and it is a privilege to be a part of it.
When we are all relics in rocking chairs, we will still know that we
were present at the creation. I know that I will count myself
particularly lucky, including for your close attention these past few
minutes.

Thank you for the honor of speaking with you.


END



For help on using this list (especially unsubscribing), send a message to
"dcsb-request@ai.mit.edu" with one line of text: "help".

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 21:44:25 +0800
To: Tim May 
Message-ID: <199811111320.FAA09439@smtp.well.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Without endorsing Tim's "need killing" views, I would like to point out
that Mr. b!X has a deeply flawed understanding of the Second Amendment and
constitutional history.

-Declan



At 08:35 PM 11-10-98 -0800, Tim May wrote:
>At 7:25 PM -0800 11/10/98, b!X wrote:
>>Yeah yeah all very well and good parody except that the 2nd amendment
>>contains the word "well-regulated" and the 1st doesn't.
>>
>>(And yes I know I'm asking for a shitstorm of trouble saying that on THIS
>>list of all places).
>>
>
>No, you are welcome to _say_ damned near anything you want to say.
>
>However, graduate from _saying_ things to grabbing our guns, that's when
>you'll need killing.
>
>
>--Tim May
>
>Y2K: A good chance to reformat America's hard drive and empty the trash.
>---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
>Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
>ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
>W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
>Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 23:45:53 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Question about insurance managed fire services... (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811111515.JAA24410@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 15:59:32 +0100
> From: Anonymous 
> Subject: Re: Question about insurance managed fire services...

> You really are naive, Jim. Do you think that insurance regulatory 
> agents follow around after all of the insurance companies' employees
> to ensure they aren't starting fires?

No, and exactly how you managed to derive that is truly humorous.

> Or do you suppose that in an anarcho-capitialistic society (unlike 
> the current sainted `democratic' society), company A would be so
> stupid as to make the burning of competitors' houses an official
> company policy which would be found out `if only' there were a 
> government regulator watching it? How long do you suppose that
> company A can get away with burning down the homes of its competitors

Until somebody either squeels (not likely since they're dead shortly
afterward or let loose and nobody will hire then from then on, not
in the business' best interest.) or they do get caught and a connection is
made (not very likely since the perp won't be carryin an employee badge).
And since company A is the company that will be prosecuting (their own
under-the-table employee) the consequences are pretty predictible.

How commen is it now for business' to partake in illegal activities in order
to further their business ends? How often do you suppose, given that rate,
they are caught? I'd say not a lot. I see no reason to suspect that in a
anarcho-whatever society that rate will be one whit better.

> before its agents are caught in the act (by company B's investigators
> if no one else)?

Oh, they'll get caught occassionaly but then again, the strategy of forcing
company B to keep investigators on call and monitoring their customers
property is a good strategy to raise their cost of doing business and as
a result their coverage rates. This increase will help convince user of
B's service that A looks like a better bang for the buck.

> No, Jim, such behavior would clearly not be in the
> best interests of company A's stockholders (that is, it would not be
> `profitable').

Sure it would, it decreases the cost of doing business and increases
the potential market for future consumers of the services. It happens all
the time now, it won't go away.

> Any why, in a private contractual situation, would the `fire department'
> not be impartial? How does the government-provided fire department
> have any advantage in impartiality?

Because their funds and income is from a known source. Ask yourself this,
what happens if a police officer or a fire inspector suddenly starts driving
a Porche around and moving out into the uppity neighborhoods and doesn't
have a good explanation for it?

> The police or security force that the customer contracts with to
> protect their home of course. Idiot. These exist now in cooperation
> with government-provided police (though some might naively imagine 
> them to be redundant). Either you are simply being disingenuous or
> you really are this stupid.
> 
> >                                  You mean the ones the same insurance
> > company co-oped?
> 
> Context, Jim, context. This makes no sense whatsoever without more
> context. What insurance company are you talking about? And why does
> an insurance company necessarily have a direct relationship with a 
> security service provider? Or did you mean `co-opted' (a different
> word altogether)?

Apparently I've strained your short-term memory here, go back and read
it again. Which insurance company is obvious - all of them.

I'm done now, this isn't about anarcho-anything, this is about you getting
your jollies off trying to take cheap shots at me personaly.

Whoopie.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Reeza! 
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 08:06:50 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199811101638.KAA18839@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981111093855.008672b0@205.83.192.13>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 10:38 AM 11/10/98 -0600, Jim Choate wrote:
>
>Like I said, at least your more honest than the rest of these wanna-be
>thieves.

Your earlier reply on honesty was to Petro, I think you are confusing me
with him.

>You might want to see doctor about that hole you shot in your foot while
>it was in your mouth.

Huh?

Reeza!

	If you see a man approaching you with the obvious intention 
	of doing you good, you should run for your life.
				-stolen from a cypherpunk sig




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 00:20:44 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: ebanking - What's up with that?
Message-ID: <199811111539.JAA24547@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Hi,

Anyone got a pointer other than the CNN article on the announcement by
Excite Inc. and Bank One about their offering a full line of banking
services online?

I'd be interested in anything on the particulars of the services and he
protocols they intend to impliment.

Danke.

    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Soren 
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 22:15:28 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: most of what govts do can be done by business, and done better (Re: How to solve the tax problem w/o anarchy or force)
In-Reply-To: <199811102039.UAA09523@server.eternity.org>
Message-ID: <3649A4FF.3631965C@workmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Adam Back wrote:
> 
> Vladimir Nuri writes:
> > the distinction between govt and business is sometimes an
> > arbitrary one. for example govt agencies typically contract
> > with private companies to perform govt services. a massive
> > example of this is the defense industry. what I would tend
> > to propose is a system where this is augmented and finetuned
> > to the point the govt become a very efficient sorting mechanism
> > for channeling money to businesses that are the most efficient.
> 
> Even when government does sub-contract, the inefficiency is usually I
> think pretty horrendous by industry standards:
>  ...
>  ...
> > it really does seem to me like there is a legitimate role for a
> > certain amount of money to be collected for govt service.
> 
> I think you can privatise everything.  Things which are called natural
> monopolies could be managed by trade organisations or companies
> bidding for management getting efficiency related fees.  Why should
> politicians and the rest manage roads, why not a company.
> 
> > imho it is far, far less than whatis being collected today.
> 
> zero I think woudl be best, or very very close.
> 
> > if taxes were 5-10% people wouldn't give as much a damn about the
> > govt and how it worked.
> 
> What all could you spend 5-10% of GNP on that couldn't be privatised?
> Sounds like an awful lot of legalised theft yet!
> 
> > libertarians tend to be awfully realistic some times. who pays for
> > roads when everyone uses them?
> 
> don't pay not allowed to use.  not everyone uses them to drive cars
> on.
> 
> 
There is a real live example of this kind of transition.  New Zealand.

New Zealand is the nation that coined the term 'cradle to grave
socialism' (and also the first to offer women the vote --
coincidence?).  In 1986, the country was as close to bankrupt as was
possible to be.  The socialists were ousted and taxes slashed from 60+%
to 28%.  A GST was introduced, government monopolies were sold off --
mail delivery, post offices, power generation, water supplies, telephone
service, ports, airports, medical, road maintenance etc. Military
investment was reduced to a coast guard and a professional
infrastructure required for UN involvement.

The (almost) immediate result of this divestiture, was for affluence to
skyrocket due to the release of the entrepreneurial spirit (remember the
kiwi-fruit?) By the early '90s New Zealand was upgraded from 17th
standard of living in the world, to 3rd. Since then, taxes have been cut
thrice more.  Currently income taxes are at 21% and plans have been made
to eliminate them entirely in '00.  The entire economy is supported by
the GST of 12.5% (consumption tax).

Welfare still exists, although the population is steadily being weaned
off it.  Most of the diehard dole-bludgers have moved to Australia
(coinciding with a move of many businesses from Australia in the reverse
direction), which still has a 45% income tax rate to support them.  Much
to the chagrin of the doomsaying socialists, the standard of living
actually improved for all the population.  The atmosphere of economic
repression was replaced by cheerful optimism within 6 months of the
transition, and has been growing ever since. Currently, along with
Argentina, New Zealand is the only other country in the world to be in
the black.

Income taxes were kept on solely for the purpose of eliminating foreign
debt. This is due to be completed by '00.  The change in people's
attitudes has been radical. During the latest asian economic crisis, New
Zealand found itself severely affected by the decrease in its markets. 
Rather than a return to printing money and increased taxation, New
Zealand has further reduced its tax burden in the belief that the free
market will find the correct solution.

One other interesting change happened at the same time as the above. 
During the post world war II period, New Zealand (and Australia) were
afflicted by something that was known down-under as the 'English
disease' -- viz: trade unionism.  This second government was virtually
abolished in New Zealand by the passing of the Employment Contracts Act
of 1986.  Under this act, all people are considered to be self-employed
in the sense that everyone has the right to negotiate their own
employment contract, or to collectively bargain as they see fit. What
this means, is that there is no single standard of employer to employee
relationship defined by the government (or trade union).  For a
corporation to require exclusivity of its hired help is considered to be
an invalid employment contract under the act. Consequently, becoming an
'employee' in this sense implies that the income, derived from such
employment, is tax free.  This has been tested in the courts
successfully on a number of occasions.

Several benefits have ensued from this: firstly, everyone has developed
an understanding of how to organize their own financial affairs to
minimize their tax burden; secondly, being self-employed means the 20%
tax rate can be largely reduced through business write-offs; thirdly,
negotiation of contracts, in such an atmosphere, has largely eliminated
the 'us and them' mentality between the corporation and the worker.  Now
it is just a lot of independent co-operating peer companies; fourthly,
because there are no 'bosses' as such, people have a lot more latitude
on how and where they perform their work.  This has led to an incredible
amount of home office and business de-centralization and flexibility.

Its not yet perfect by libertarian standards, but the direction has been
chosen towards a model of government limited to an arbitration function
and to provide a common foreign policy.

My belief is that the creation of a libertarian environment in the US,
is unlikely without much social disruption and bloodshed.  Similarly for
the EU.  A more productive course of action is for libertarian minded
folk, to relocate themselves to countries that are amenable to such
changes in direction (Max! where can we go? Argentina maybe?), and work
to effect the creation of a showcase example of how it can work in
practise.  With the examples of New Zealand and Argentina and the growth
in their stability and affluence, this would be a constructive means of
affirming your libertarian beliefs, without violating the principle of
not initiating force, fraud or coercion.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Duncan Licence 
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 22:59:12 +0800
To: "'cypherpunks@toad.com>
Subject: acceptable user policies
Message-ID: <01BE0D59.BC79C560.dlicence@dataforce.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



hey there,

	I am having to formulate an acceptable user policy for the users. Does 
anybody know of any online references, or examples of such policies. 
This would have to include specifications like email use, internet 
access, games over the LAN - anything that you can get your head around 
pertaining to such. This of course would have to weigh up between the 
rights of the users and protection of the network and PCs


	Your help would be greatly appreciated
	Duncan




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Duncan Licence 
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 00:15:52 +0800
To: "'cypherpunks@toad.com>
Subject: acceptable user policies
Message-ID: <01BE0D59.D688E9E0.dlicence@dataforce.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



hey there,

	I am having to formulate an acceptable user policy for the users. Does 
anybody know of any online references, or examples of such policies. 
This would have to include specifications like email use, internet 
access, games over the LAN - anything that you can get your head around 
pertaining to such. This of course would have to weigh up between the 
rights of the users and protection of the network and PCs


	Your help would be greatly appreciated
	Duncan




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 00:57:42 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: IP: Clinton Wants Loophole In U.S. Free Speech Closed (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811111618.KAA24654@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 00:06:22 +1000
> From: Reeza! 
> Subject: Re: IP: Clinton Wants Loophole In U.S. Free Speech Closed

> Notice how, in each of the amendments below, the 1st is the only one with
> the text "congress shall make no law".
> 
> This is implied, understood to be implied, accepted as implied and supreme
> court ruled to be implied as applicable to each of the rest of the bill of
> rights, and later to the amendments, wherein it is not so specified as in
> the 1st.
> 
> A large part of the reason that 2 thru 10 and the rest do not include that
> phrase is to prevent the states from doing the very thing that congress was
> and is prohibited from.

Read the 10th again you don't understand what it is saying. 

It *specificaly* says that unless the Constitution assigns it to the feds
*or* prohibits it then the states are *exactly* the ones that are able to do
what Congress is prohibited from doing. The states are limited by their
own consititions which are guaranteed to be representative in nature.

The states absolutely have the right to regulate gun laws (as in the Texas
constitution) provided they don't infringe (what part of shall not do you
not understand) on the actual possession. Licenses and background checks
at the state level are absolutely constitutional.

State regulation on speech, press, etc. are also completely constitutional
as well. And is where such regulation should take place. If you don't like
your states laws move to one you do like.

That's what it means to live in a democracy, freedom of choice - not
homogeneity (on this point ol' Alex was wrong, wrong, wrong).


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 01:28:06 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 7:37 PM -0500 11/10/98, Jim Choate wrote:
>Forwarded message:
>	No, I am saying that since EVERY government at one time or another
>> treats its citizens like roaches, it's time to radically change the nature
>> of it so that it basically can't be called a government any more.

>The problem isn't government, it's the people who enforce the government
>that abuse it.

	And the system protects them. Pinochet wasn't handed over to spain
now was he.

	It's the system.

>> >Well actualy it's whether it has a tax stamp whether you sell it out of a
>> >storefront or a truckbed is irrelevent. Considering the number of
>>people wh=
>
>> 	Wanna bet?
>
>Absolutely. I happen to know a whole passel of beer, wine, and liqour
>makers. Austin as aswim in micro-breweries. I'd be more than happy to pass
>your email address to the enibriated set and let them argue the point with
>you.

>> 	Most states have fairly strict laws concerning where liquor can be
>> sold.
>
>Actualy it's not the states (at least Texas and Louisiana), it's the local
>cities. The state of Texas doesn't care as long as you pay your liquor
>license and don't sell to minors and obey the local zoning ordinances.

	In N.C, Tennesee (IIRC), Illinois, and North Carolina (especially
N.C.) it's the state.

>> 	Which is completely irrelevant as to wheter or not it is currently
>> black market or not, which is the context I was working in.
>>
>> 	Stay on target.
>
>I am on target. The fact that a unregulated alcohol industry led to death,
>debilitation, and financial hardship justified the imposition of regulation
>on alcohol and its related operations.

	Crap. Pure B.S. What lead to it's regulation was a bunch of broads
who didn't want ANYONE drinking, so they pushed for abolition, which was a
total disaster, and lead to repeal.

>You just don't want the entire picture painted because it cast a harsh light
>on the premise that un-regulated economies are good things.

	While you keep repeating lies and half truths.

	Ever heard of "Muckraking"? Yellow Journalism? Could it have been
that that lead to some of this B.S. regulation? Nah, the press never would
have done something like that.

	Remember the movie "Reefer Madness", and the Jim Crow drug laws of
the early 1900's? Couldn't be that people in positions of power at the time
had certain agendas and used lies to further them could it.

	Nah, people in government NEVER behave like that.


>> >Not necessarily. The doctor has to have a medicaly supportable reason to
>> >dispence those drugs. Otherwise it's just as black market as Joe's.
>> 	Quibble Quibble. You know EXACTLY what I meant.
>Yeah, you meant to commit an act of ommission so that your position looks
>more favorable than it actualy does.

	No I didn't, EVEN IF I GET THEM LEGALLY, if I turn around and sell
them, it's black market, that was muy fucking point, I'm sorry if you can't
comprehend that sort of thing.

	Let me tell you a true story Jimmy. A while back I had a bit of
surgery done to repair a hernia. The Doctor gave me a perscription for a
pain killer (related to valium IIRC). 40 caps of it.

	I hated the shit, and didn't take it after the 2nd day, leaving me
clear headed, but in pain. No big deal, I've been in pain before. I traded
the rest of those drugs for an old computer.

	I got them thru the "white" market, with just cause, and legally (I
had never taken that kind of thing before and didn't know it's effects),
but I "recycled" them thru the black market.

	Either way, my point is still that the black market is about more
than just if the _product_ is illegal, it also relates to the trade.

>> >Didn't think of theft? Jesus H. Christ, you gotta be on Joe's drugs. The
>> >vast majority of material sold on *ANY* black market is stolen from its
>> >rightful owner. It is *the* example of black market trading that most folks
>> >think of first.
>>
>> 	No, the vast majority (in terms of dollars) of stuff sold on the
>> black market is Drugs.
>
>Really? Drugs are what $10B US a year or so. I bet stolen automobiles when

	Yeah, like anyone really knows for sure.

>taken as a whole gross more loss than that. And what makes you think that
>the vast majority of that drugs aren't purchased at the street level with

	Because I know a lot of people who've bought drugs, and for the
most part it was with money they earned or receieved thru legal means.

>> >How the hell do you sell something on the black market if you don't have
>> >possession of it? And exactly who is going to prosecute anyone for
>> 	Easy, it's called a Con.
>> 	Seriously tho, I said that the _selling_ of stolen goods might not
>> be illegal, but the possesion of such things, and the stealing of them are
>> seperate acts to the selling of them.
>Still doesn't answer my question.

	Your question is ignorant and irrelevant, but to answer it: Brokers.

	I have something to sell, but I don't want to hassle with finding a
buyer. Joe has a lot of connections, but no goods to sell, and you are a
buyer. I let joe know I have product, he makes the deal, and I hire Omar to
deliver it to you. Joe never even sees the merchandise, but is effectively
the seller.

>> 	There isn't a need to. Shoot them.

>Ah, so you admit that the general mechanism to settle inter-personal dispute
>under your plan is to allow people to run around shooting each other.

	No, and for you to even say it in that manner is complete
disingenious. You and I are having and "inter-personal dispute", and would
never suggest that you be shot for disagreeing with me. Nor would I if,
say, we had a car accident and were resolving that (unless you had done
something like driving drunk and blatantly violating common sense rules of
the road like running a stop sign or a red light, in which case you are a
threat to me and others). On the other hand, I catch you in my home
uninvited, I hope your life insurance is paid up. I catch you with MY
property without my permission, I hope your medical insurance is good,
cause you are going to be in a LOT of pain.

>Well, at least we've got an honest admission that murder would be legal in
>this system.

	Murder is a legal construct. It is "killing in violation of the
law" (no, that isn't the legal defination of murder, I realize that), if
you don't have "law", you don't have murder. If you have law, then murder
is illegal.

	You are talking about killing, and in cases (i.e. those not covered
by law) killing is legal. If I accidentally hit someone with a car, and
they die, that is not murder. If am a cop and shoot someone, it isn't
murder. If I am rich and famous (come on, you know the song, sing along
"Murder is a crime, unless it is done by a police man, or an Aristocrat
Know your rights, these are your rights...) and stab someone, it is not
murder, and if I kill someone (in most states) illegally entering my house,
it is not murder.

	Hell, in texas, I can shoot my wife, as long as she is in bed with
another person.

--
"To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a
jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a
gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather naďve, and certainly
unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust"
http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html

Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro@playboy.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 01:29:06 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Cylink Sued for Stock Fraud
Message-ID: <199811111641.LAA06325@camel14.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Business Wire reported yesterday that Cylink has been
sued in US District Court of New Jersey for securities
fraud through a class action. It alleges misrepresentation 
and false financial statements.

   http://jya.com/cylink-suit.htm

On November 5 Cylink announced revised revenues
for the first half of 1998. The day before William Crowell, 
ex-NSA, was appointed president in a house sweep 
of the executive team, apparently after discovery of book 
cooking.

William Perry, ex-DoD, is still listed on the board of
directors, although the list seems to be out of date,
along with the annual report and letter to stockholders
on Cylink's Web site.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Lance Cottrell 
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 03:58:10 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Anonymizer developer positions available.
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Anonymizer Inc.  is looking for programers to
work on various projects under development.

We have two positions available, one short term contract work, the other
full time.

Contract programmer:
Term: 1-2 months
Skills: Visual Basic, Windows API, TCP networking

Full time development team leader:
Skills: C / C++
	PERL
	UNIX
	TCP Networking / sockets


For either position send email and resume to me at .
We are looking for people who share our passion for free speech and privacy.

	-Lance Cottrell

Lance M. Cottrell                  lcottrell@anonymizer.com
Anonymizer, Inc. 		   President
Voice: (619) 667-7969              Fax: (619) 667-7966
www.Anonymizer.com


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0
Charset: noconv

iQA/AwUBNknmc8VB0soGGMVrEQIHZwCg8LUShD1hd+EUHbWewgyDbWv0mlUAniBO
MXykZTIrYLEIE1F8HskuLhLz
=CZu9
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 02:43:32 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811111750.LAA25041@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 10:49:23 -0500
> From: Petro 
> Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone
>  (fwd)

> 	And the system protects them. Pinochet wasn't handed over to spain
> now was he.
> 
> 	It's the system.

No, it's the British system. And to be honest it should be the American
system also. A country should have jurisdiction only within its own borders.
Other countries should have agreements about how persons accussed of crimes
should be extradited.

In the anarcho-whatever system this is all eliminated because we've
eliminated crime in the first place by legitimizing any and all strategies.

> 	In N.C, Tennesee (IIRC), Illinois, and North Carolina (especially
> N.C.) it's the state.

Then have the law changed in those states or you could move to Texas.

> 	Crap. Pure B.S. What lead to it's regulation was a bunch of broads
> who didn't want ANYONE drinking, so they pushed for abolition, which was a
> total disaster, and lead to repeal.

No, that was prohibition. The taxation of alcohol goes back equaly far in
the history of this country. To before the articles of confederation even
since Britian required taxes on rum and related items - espcialy if they
were from non-British ports -  if you would stop knee-jerking responces and
think back the Tax Acts were one of the reasons we had a revolution in the
first place. Tea, rum, and whiskey were one of the primary motivations.

> 	Ever heard of "Muckraking"? Yellow Journalism? Could it have been
> that that lead to some of this B.S. regulation? Nah, the press never would
> have done something like that.

Actualy, the fact that you admit that the press can be in colussion with the
government and the businesses goes a long way toward demonstrating that
anarcho-anything won't work because it will be even harder for
whistle-blowers and 'social do-gooders' to get their message out (unless
they're well heeled and don't mind loosing it all in the process).

> 	Remember the movie "Reefer Madness", and the Jim Crow drug laws of
> the early 1900's? Couldn't be that people in positions of power at the time
> had certain agendas and used lies to further them could it.

People always have agenda's (this is segues nicely into what Blanc was
saying about attitudes), that's my point and one of the reasons that
anarcho-whatever won't work is because it doesn't recognize this nor does it
put any sort of limit on its expression.

> 	Nah, people in government NEVER behave like that.

People always behave that way, it's the way people are. Being in government
is only another mechanism it gets expressed through. Business is another.

> 	No I didn't, EVEN IF I GET THEM LEGALLY, if I turn around and sell
> them, it's black market, that was muy fucking point, I'm sorry if you can't
> comprehend that sort of thing.

If the doctor gives them to you without a valid medical reason then you
didn't get them legaly. Techicaly the doctor is in violation for trafficking
and you would be in violation for possession and use of a controlled
substance. If you knew full well that you weren't going to use them and took
them anyway then you in effect stole them because you misled the doctor into
giving them to you. Now if you simply sold them because you didn't like their
side effects then only you are legaly culpible.

Now, your point that not everything on the black market is stolen is well
take as I've said before (you just didn't read it, it at least explains why
you keep going over the same issue until you think I'll be badgered into
agreeing with you). The exception I take, and am still waiting for refuation
of, is that the *majority* of goods on the black market including drugs are
related to the theft of material or services from legitimate parties. That
you don't seem to grasp (and I'm not so obsessed with making you see it that
I'm going to discuss the issue farther).

As a history teacher once said:

The nice thing about America is anybody can believe anything, whether they
know what they are talking about or not.

I respect that sentiment.

> 	I hated the shit, and didn't take it after the 2nd day, leaving me
> clear headed, but in pain. No big deal, I've been in pain before. I traded
> the rest of those drugs for an old computer.

I certainly hope that no DEA agents are watching *and* you're not in the
US. Admitting to a crime in a public venue, whether in a public park or a
mailing list isn't the brightest strategy. If you're not in the US you
should probably hope that the NSA (or whomever) is too busy to pass along
this to the requisite authorities. I would suggest strongly that for future
such public admission you should use a pseudonym or an anonymous remailer.

> 	Either way, my point is still that the black market is about more
> than just if the _product_ is illegal, it also relates to the trade.

It has to do with something being illegal or not acceptable otherwise you
could just open up a store and start trading the items directly. In the vast
majority of cases it involves the theft of services or property from the
valid rights holder.

> 	Yeah, like anyone really knows for sure.

Well that pretty much shoots a hole in your point as well if that is your
position. However, since the manufature of vehicles is accounted far to
at least the 10's place by auto manufacturers and the sale of legitimate cars
is traceable through tax and title I'd say that it is possible to make
educated guesses about the scale of the market.

> 	Because I know a lot of people who've bought drugs, and for the
> most part it was with money they earned or receieved thru legal means.

No, you know some people who have bought drugs, just as I do. However,
claiming that the small set you know of personaly qualifies as a lot is an
invalid hyperbole. There are millions of drug users in this country, and
in your entire life you've only met a few thousand at best.

> 	Your question is ignorant and irrelevant, but to answer it: Brokers.

Oh, you mean fences...

> 	I have something to sell, but I don't want to hassle with finding a
> buyer. Joe has a lot of connections, but no goods to sell, and you are a
> buyer. I let joe know I have product, he makes the deal, and I hire Omar to
> deliver it to you. Joe never even sees the merchandise, but is effectively
> the seller.

You have to have possession in order to pass possesion to Joe so that he can
sell it and pass you possession of the receipted funds (minus Joe's cut).
Whether that possession is measured in immediate physical control (ie in
your pants pocket) or more general (eg stored in a rent-room under an
assumed name) is irrelevant.

There is also the fact that if you don't produce the item(s) at some point
Joe is likely to take his frustration out on you because you tried to
take him and his money. The fact that you can produce them is clear evidence
that at some point they were in your possession.

How many middle-men is between there is irrelevant, since you are driving it
and paying the costs you are in possession.

> 	No, and for you to even say it in that manner is complete
> disingenious.

Your the one who said shoot them, what's the matter find your baby to ugly
to look at?

 You and I are having and "inter-personal dispute", and would
> never suggest that you be shot for disagreeing with me. Nor would I if,

Yeah, well unless you can convince everyone that anarcho-whatever will
also convince the Kennedy boys, OJ, et ali. then it's pretty irrelevant
since it will occur whether you or I are involved and the issue is that
it occurs, not that you or I are involved.

I suspect that the emotionaly challenged will continue to shoot each other
irrespective of the political system implimented. If you take guns away
they'll knife each other and if you take knives away they'll beat each other
to death.

Which raises an interesting point, more people are killed by physical
assault according to the FBI crime stats than guns each year.

> say, we had a car accident and were resolving that (unless you had done
> something like driving drunk and blatantly violating common sense rules of
> the road like running a stop sign or a red light, in which case you are a
> threat to me and others).

Ah, I see. So your position is that if somebody runs a stop light then that
is grounds to shoot them.



    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 02:46:00 +0800
To: mmotyka@lsil.com
Subject: Re: Off Topic But Truly Beautiful
In-Reply-To: <3648B332.19DA@lsil.com>
Message-ID: <199811111809.MAA14591@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



>From careful reading of the disclaimer at the bottom of the article,
it seems to me that it was a hoax.

igor
Michael Motyka wrote:
> 
> 
> I didn't think of this before but add together bees, wind and rampant
> tree sex and this stuff will definitely spread. It could even become a
> bit of a "problem".
> 
> The people who have packets of seeds should distribute those quickly to
> friends before the buggerers get the mailing list and start confiscating
> seeds.
> 
> BTW - I believe that citrus hybridize freely, rather like mentha in that
> respect.
> 
> Wild and cool. I think he should do apples next. Then strawberries.
> Peaches. Beans. A whole fucking farmer's market.
> 



	- Igor.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 02:54:25 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 7:52 PM -0500 11/10/98, Jim Choate wrote:
>Forwarded message:
>> 	Really, you are saying they couldn't possibly recognize the
>> benefits of teaming up and co-locating fire stations, or that they wouldn't
>> sub-contract to a company that handled fires?
>So, you want to sub-contract out which is going to raise the cost and
>doesn't alleviate the insurance company from regulatory and supply issues.
>It'd cost a fortune.

	Sub-contracting can often lead to cost savings. For instance,
instead of each insurer having their own fire station network, they could
all share one, and only pay a certain cost-per-subscriber.

	Kind of like today where insurers don't usually own hospitals &
doctors offices.
>> 	"reasonable" in cost? There is a LOT if inefficiency in the system
>> that competition could eliminate.
>Yep, and a lot of people the competition would eliminate as well. I'll live
>with the inefficiency as long as the cost is affordable for the quality of
>service delivered. I don't mind fireman sitting around eating bar-b-q unless
>somebodies house burns down.

	I am not just talking about firehouses Jim, and I don't mind them
barbequing either.

>> 	Read that last bit. They got so carried away, that they spent
>> themselves out of existence.

>That is one example, I know of several fortune 100 companies that are equaly
>extravagant. The problem with Compu-Add was they shot their whole wad.

	Extravagance isn't always bad. I just spent 1 1/2 weeks (well
almost) living at a hotel in Sunnyvale on Playboy's dime. They let us spend
a bit of money, stay in nice hotels (Marriot Residence Inn), eat pretty
much what we want (I've never hit the meal limits, but I don't eat too
fancy) we can get up to a full sized car (they wouldn't let me rent a
motorcycle, but that was more insurance than anything), it is a bit on the
extravagant side, but I was also working 10 to 15 hour days for 12 straight
days (worked before I left to go out there as well). It's sort of a
"payment in kind".

	It isn't the extravagance of Business, it's the idiotic things they
spend money on. Microsoft Exchange for instance. About 5 times more
expensive than a competitive product, and about 20 times more expensive
than the cheapest commercial solution that will work.

	There is also a lot of free software out there that does the same
thing.

	So no, I am not going to try to say that Business is has to be more
efficient than Government, just that the market is usually more efficient
than Government.

>> 	Ok, so you limit the senators and congressmen, then the unelected
>> beaureacrats have the power since they know the system and run the system.
>
>Not at all, they are limited in what they can do by the laws. It's not like
>they're running around sending bills to people out of the blue and making up
>the system as they go along. Despite your protestations to the contrary the
>system just don't work that way.

	Look at the IRS, they make their own rules, and send bills to
people randomly.

>> 	Wearing a painted leather jacket & ripped up blue jeans is NOT a
>> reason to get hauled off the street, searched and questioned.
>If it happened to you and you didn't file a harrassment complaint then you
>got what you deserved. If you don't use the system it won't work.

	Oh, they had an excuse, someone wearing blue jeans and a leather
jacket robbed a store--On the other side of town, and I was walking.

>Never happened to me or anyone I knew unless they were in particular places
>at particular times. If a cop busts people at a corner every nite for
>breaking the law it isn't the cops fault, it's the stupid people who keep

	It is when the law used has been thrown out of court every time
it's used, and citizens complain, but the cops still use it to harass
people.


>> 	Looking different is not illegal.
>> 	Thinking different is not illegal.
>Nobody said it was and it isn't. Now if you happen to fit the description of
>another perp well that's just too damn bad.

	The cops seem to think so.

>> 	With a bunch thrown in at the federal level. Federal Matching Funds
>> & etc.
>Oh, malarky (and stay away from my business books). It's obvious you never
>do accounting. The matching funds are for roads outside of the city or for

	There are quite a few roads in Chicago that are maintained by state
and federal funds.

>highways that transit cities. They are not supposed to be used for city
>street or FM or RM roads.

	Supposed to or not, that is what they get used for. LSD in Chicago
is maintained in part by federal funds, it is a (mostly) controled access
highway entirely within Chicago.

>> 	Then why do they keep building them?
>
>Because we still hav an Army whose job it is to defend this country you
>nit-wit. If we didn't keep fixing them and expanding the system as people

	Listen Fuckwad:
	(1) there are paved roads from one coast to the other, as well as
railways.
	(2) There hasn't been a war fought on CONUS since we attacked Mexico.
	(3) Most of the roads being built with federal funds are for
"congestion  relief", not roads to new places so troops can move.

	Most roads being built today are either for Suburbs, or for more
efficiently getting people to and from job centers. If you don't believe
that, you are a fool

	There hasn't been a military case for building superhighways since
the 1930's and 40's.


>move around and expand the Army might find it a tad hard to do their job
>when called to it. And yes, I know the Militia is the one who is supposed
>to be called in for that sort of stuff - that's a whole other topic.

	The Army. Marines, and National Guard are fully capable of getting
whereever they need to go with our without the current highway system, if
they weren't they'd be worthless.

	Also, it is just as easy for the OpFors to use the roads as it is
for the friendlies. I am not saying you are lying with this one, I just
can't believe that anyone was foolish enough to fall for it.

>> 	Promote does not mean "give away", it means "promote", do things
>> which incourage.
>
>Absolutely. While I agree that there are some particular issues that need
>fixing in a major way that is not the same (as you would have us believe) as
>saying as a result the whole system should be scrapped

	I, and others are saying that there is no way of building a system
that cannot, and indeed will not be abused.

>> 	They were the heads of the governments. The skills and abilities it
>> takes to get to that level insure that the people who get there have no
>> concern for those underneath them.
>Oh, you mean insanity, egotism, neurosis, etc.?

	Well, at least egotism, and a complete disregard for the truth.

>> 	So we agree that any government is doomed from the start, since
>> w/out people of honesty and integrity no system will work properly.
>
>No, *all* people are not such. Most people I know are honest and have
>integrity. What has to happen is a set of checks and balances, which we are

	Most people are honest--TO A POINT, and the integrity people have
is getting less and less.

	If everyone you know is honest and has integrity, then you must not
know very many people. None of your friends cheat on their taxes (cheating
is dishonest, refusing to pay would show integrity, if AND ONLY IF it
follows from a belief that the system has no right to demand your labor)
etc?

>admittedly short of at the moment. The system isn't perfect, never claimed
>to be (read the 1st paragraph if the Constitution), and if it remains so
>then it's *OUR* fault and not the systems.

	Any system is flawed, and I will repeat myself:

	(a)Any system will work if enough of the people in that system are
honest, have integrity, believe in the system and want it to work. Any
system.

	(b)No system will work if a large enough number of people within
that system try to cheat, coopt, or otherwise "get over" on that system.

	Given the above, anarchy will work just as well as any other system
in the long run because the world more closely resembles (b) than (a),
hence any system will fail.

>> 	No, that face that stares back from the mirror makes every effort
>> to be as honest and forthright as it can. It causes grief sometimes, but
>> it's the principle.
>You claim to be honest yet promote a system that allows slavery, murder,
>theft, and other horrendous crimes against man....

	No, no, I promote anarchy, you are promoting governments which do
those things.

--
"To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a
jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a
gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather naďve, and certainly
unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust"
http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html

Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro@playboy.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 02:54:54 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 7:57 PM -0500 11/10/98, Jim Choate wrote:
>Forwarded message:

	Part what is attributed to me I wrote, some was written by Albert
P. Franco, whose original message didn't get modified properly by Eudora.
Sorry.

	I've changed his comments to ::

>> Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 16:40:11 -0500
>> From: Petro 
>> Subject: Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the
>>  Foregone(fwd)
>
::I left the good ol' USA too. I now live in a European country with a strong
::socialistic government and I actually find very little interference in my
::day to day life. In fact there seems to be a much higher awareness that
::each
>
>I find very little interference in my daily life as well (except when one of
>you anarcho-cooks starts dropping bombs and threatening people).

>> 	Crap. They take 60+ percent of your income in taxes, that means
>> that they take 60+ percent of your working day.
>They take 40% of my income, or are you talking of France taking 60% of your
>income. Disagreement over the level or specific policies for spending it do
>not justify eliminating the system.

	Specific levels maybe, but spending policies, yes it does.

>> 	They (at least france) throw up HUGE barriers to anyone wanting to
>> start a business, especially if they will need to hire workers. This not
>> only makes it difficult for you to start a business (which would never
>> happen since you've indicated you like someone else making decisions for
>> you) but also increases unemployment (prevents others from creating jobs
>> rather than just begging for them).
>
>And you find that a better place to live then the US?

	Again, That was Franco, I live in the US, and wrote that part.


:: individual is responsible for his and her actions. At the very least there
:: aren't as many lawyers claiming everyone is a victim of something or
:: another (ie. too hot coffee, slippery floors, home owners that shot the
:: poor intruder who didn't get a warning first, etc.)
>
>What is the percentage of lawyers in France to the total population?
>
:: Ain't no where perfect, anarcho-whatever was done about 4000 years ago, I
:: generally prefer to look forward...
>>
>> 	So, the fact that it hasn't been tried in 4000 years means it will
>> never work?
>>
>> 	I guess it's a good thing the wright brothers didn't take that
>> attitude, nor Robert Goddard.
>
>We tried anarchy, it's called cave men. As to Wright and Goddard, they had
>ample evidence in physics (that's been around what 4.5B years) to build
>their expectations on. In the field of politics and social system the only
>thing we have to go with is our imagination, patience, understanding, and
>past practice. 5k years or a little more.
>
>All of those say anarcho-anything systems won't work.

	Those haven't been tried in 5 or 6k years, things change.
--
"To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a
jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a
gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather naďve, and certainly
unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust"
http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html

Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro@playboy.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 03:10:30 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 8:38 PM -0500 11/10/98, Jim Choate wrote:
>Forwarded message:
>
>> Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 12:33:04 -0500
>> From: Petro 
>> Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the (fwd)
>
>> 	Theft, violence and extortion are already legitimate, not only does
>> the government use them all the time, but corporations and indivuduals do
>> as well.
>
>True, at least under a democratic system we can prevent some of the more
>gross abuses by government and can address the inter-personal issues with
>something besides a nylon jacketed .357. Your anarcho-whatever doesn't even
>provide that.

	So you really think I'd shoot you over this discussion?

	Some "interpersonal disputes" diserve to be settled with a .357,
some with discussion.

>> 	There is no (or little) justice under the current system. When was
>> the last time a cop went to jail for a murder that he/she committed while
>> on duty. Is OJ behind bars?
>Several cops in Houston were fired (they got no-billed by the Grand Jury)
>just last week because of a similar issue. There are two cops here in Austin

	I know. They didn't even get _TRIED_ just waved a miss.

>who went to jail because of a murder (they held a kid down on a water bed
>and he suffocated) charge. The current public overwatch group was the result
>of a police call that got out of hand last year and the police had two
>choices - either give the people what they asked for or end loose the civil

	So this oversight group is less than a year old? Wait, see what
it's like in ten years.

>rights case. The two cops who beat Rodney King ended up doing time.

	Which was a total injustice.

>Nobody proved to the jury beyond a shadow of a doubt he was guilty. It is
>far better to let a dozen guilty men go free than to imprison a single
>innocent one. Our legal system may have its problem but I guarantee that a
>lot more guilty people get off scott free than innocent people end up in
>jail.

	The cops often play judge and jury, and if you complain you have
parking tickets and tow bills the rest of the time you live in that city.

>There is more than a little justice under the current system (OJ being the
>perfect example - like it or not).

	If that is justice, then the system NEEDS dismantling.

>> 	We have courts of Law, Justice is ashamed to show her face.

>Somehow I doubt that. If justice is ashamed of anything its that citizens of
>this country don't participate more and express their views with more
>conviction.

	My wife shows up for every single jury summons she gets (I think
she gets them for both of us) she takes a book, wanders down (or up) to the
court house, and waits to be dismissed, since she is an educated white
middle class person, the lawyers have no use for her.

	It's the system.

>
>> 	We recognize that these interactions exist, but guess what, for any
>> sort  of anarchy to exist, it has to happen globally. We are as concerned
>> about the people on the other side of the planet as we are about the people
>> in the next city over. Just not much.
>
>Which, considering that anarchic systems permit murder, theft, rape,
>extortion, etc. without reprisal or limits, means that the vast majority of

	Every system permits murder, theft, rape and extortion, it just
limits it to certain people.

>
>> 	No, we assume the opposite, that nothing works for large numbers of
>> people, and everyone should be free to find their own level.
>
>If nothing works for large numbers of people then why should this? Anarchy
>isn't freedom, it's opportunity to make huge profits with no responsiblity
>and at the expence of others (who are treated as a market commodity and not
>human beings).

	Because some of use prefer to live free.
--
"To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a
jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a
gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather naďve, and certainly
unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust"
http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html

Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro@playboy.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 03:07:41 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 8:56 PM -0500 11/10/98, Jim Choate wrote:
>Forwarded message:
>
>> Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 18:00:44 -0500
>> From: Petro 
>> Subject: Re: most of what govts do can be done by business, and done
>>  better (Re: How to solve the tax problem w/o anarchy or force)
>
>> 	Roads are the easiest (assuming a government model) things to apply
>> road use taxes to, simply tax gasoline, oil, and tires. Scale your tire tax
>> based on weight and apply it to bicycles as well, then everyone (execpt
>> peds) who uses pays.
>
>Screw that, tax the shoes.

	Ok, just do it in proportion to the weight rating, and the road usage.
--
"To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a
jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a
gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather naďve, and certainly
unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust"
http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html

Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro@playboy.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: scoops 
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 03:43:34 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: GOST
Message-ID: <199811112052.MAA06750@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jetico  a Finnish company (I believe) offers a number of
encryption algorithms in its BestCrypt package, among which is GOST which
it reports having a 256 key (it also sports Blowfish and DES as I recall).
I also remember a few weeks ago reports in the press and on the List of a
porn ring broken up and some agent involved saying that the some porn was
encrypted in an old KGB program which sounded much like GOST.  The
implication is that it's transparent to the feds.  However I have no idea
about various levels at which it might be implimented.  I'm sure the real
experts on the List will fill you in.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 03:42:20 +0800
To: "Albert P. Franco, II" 
Subject: Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the  Foregone(fwd)
In-Reply-To: <3648A8A0.46A41EFC@nyu.edu>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 9:22 AM -0500 11/11/98, Albert P. Franco, II wrote:
>You obviously think that anything goes in business. Frankly Gates is a
>perfect example of why you anarcho-BS is doomed to failure. He will do
>anything (and has) he can to be the only player in every market he touches.

	And despite this, and his having large numbers of lawyers on his
side, and despite having large quantities of cash to persue advertising,

	LINUX IS KICKING HIS ASS IN THE SERVER MARKET, and poised to do the
same on the desktop.

	Linux had little corporate funding (some Government thru it's
subsidies of colleges and the internet), almost no advertising, and no, or
negative mindshare until recently.

>He has destroyed otherwise perfectly good businesses and products just to
>increase his profits. He has violated workers rights to increase his
>profit. In short he has demonstrated that if you let him murder wouldn't be
>to far a step to reach his goals.

	Ah, but if we let HIM, then we'd have that shot as well.

>He is the monster that proves that your ideas are actually very very old

	He is not a monster, he is just doing what many other businessmen
have done down thru the years.

>And so everybody's so busy shooting each other that nobody is investing,
>and I have to ask, "What happened to the capitalism part of
>anarcho-capitalism?"

	You assume that people will always be shooting. Most will figure
out that guns really aren't an economical solution to most problems.

	Remember the "Bad, Bad" wild west? Well, it seems that despite what
the movies tell you, you are more likely to get shot today in parts of
Chicago or LA than in most of the Old West. Why? Guns really don't pay as a
wealth _getter_, only as a wealth keeper.

>War is simply not good economics, and anarchy is war--constant, festering,
>sometimes small scale, sometimes large scale, but always war.

	By that comparison, so is life.
--
"To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a
jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a
gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather naďve, and certainly
unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust"
http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html

Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro@playboy.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Hohensee 
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 02:49:27 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone(fwd)
In-Reply-To: <5F152E6E8E6FD21195DF00104B2425AD02B276@yarrowbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
Message-ID: <3649D60A.EB13E9A1@nyu.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Albert P. Franco, II wrote:
> 
> >> Without some government the Bad Guys will be the only ones with anything.
> >> It is only with the threat of losing their power that leaders do good. If
> >> they had no power which could be lost or taken they will always do what's
> >> best for them in the short term, which is usually to shit on the peons.
> >> Dictators (like Pinochet and Gates) do their dirty deeds because they feel
> >> no need to placate the masses.
> >
> >If they wield no real power, and proceed to do whatever is best for them
> >in the short term, they will be screwing themselves over in the long
> >term (or short term, if doing what they want results in someone shooting
> >them in self defense).
> >
> 
> I re-read my original sentence and it seems that your interpretation is
> possible. I would like to clarify that the power I refer to is only that
> part of their power which might be lost or threatened. Clearly if they have
> no power they can't lose it. I want to say that if some or all of their
> power could be placed in jeopardy they would tend to better behaved. Why do
> you suppose Clinton spent so much time licking everybodys' boots and
> repeatedly embellishing his "apologies" to the "public".

But how can you plausibly threaten the power of he who has the most
power?  That would imply that a greater power exists -if so, how do we
control those who wield *it*?  Checks and balances don't work if those
in power aren't willing to check others in power (because, for example,
they're on the same side).

> >And precisely what dirty deeds has Mr. Gates ever done?  Excluding those
> >actions in which the judicious use of state regulation was involved.
> 
> You obviously think that anything goes in business. Frankly Gates is a
> perfect example of why you anarcho-BS is doomed to failure. He will do
> anything (and has) he can to be the only player in every market he touches.

So?  As long as he doesn't initiate force against anyone, I see no
reason why he should be physically prevented from doing what he does.  I
dislike the way he operates, but neither I nor anyone else has the right
to initiate force upon him to stop him, so long as he doesn't initiate
force himself.

My solution to the problematic behavior of Mr. Gates is not to patronize
him wherever possible, to within a certain level of convienience.  For
example, I do not run MS software on my system --it sucks compared to
Linux.

Other people hate microsoft even more, and actively work against it. 
These people either work for competing companies, agitate the public to
shun microsoft, or write good open source software, in an attempt to
remove microsoft's market.

> He has destroyed otherwise perfectly good businesses and products just to
> increase his profits. He has violated workers rights to increase his
> profit. 

How?  What rights have been violated?  Did he at any time initiate force
against any of these workers?  Did he hire soldiers to storm into
competitors' offices to murder and destroy everyone and everything?  If
he has, I certainly haven't heard of it.

I suspect that any "rights" which you think have been "violated" turn
out to be non-rights, if you're anything other than a socialist.  (which
you may very well be  --in which case, you'd be irrational and very good
at doublethink, making intelligent argument futile)

> In short he has demonstrated that if you let him murder wouldn't be
> to far a step to reach his goals.

I do not agree with this appraisal, and do not care, as long as he
doesn't initate force, or use the state to initate force.  Until then,
he has as much right to do what he does as you have to do whatever it is
that you do.

> He is the monster that proves that your ideas are actually very very old
> (caveman days) and are doomed by progress and civilization. Injecting
> capitalism (investment oriented markets) into barbarism doesn't change the
> fact that it is still barbarism, which in facts negates the ability to have
> investment oriented markets, or capitalism. Who would invest if someone
> with a gun could come and take it without out fear of retribution.

But my point all along is that anyone who takes a gun and tries to take
something *is* likely to face retribution --either from those he steals
from, or from others who don't wish to be robbed by him.  This
retribution can take many forms, ranging from death, to ostracism, to a
lowering of his reputation, depending upon how severe his crime was.

You just haven't been reading what I've been saying, have you?

> >> years, then how the hell do think you can convince somebody that the people
> >> are going to be able to control warlords and monopolies. It's called, "You
> >> don't like it? Bang, Bang, you're dead!"
> >
> >Yah, and then somebody else points a gun at Mr. would-be warlord and
> >goes Bang, Bang, he's dead  (it's unsafe having warlords about --sorta
> >like scorpions).  That is, if Mr. would-be manages to shoot me without
> >being shot himself.
> >
> 
> And so everybody's so busy shooting each other that nobody is investing,
> and I have to ask, "What happened to the capitalism part of
> anarcho-capitalism?"

Such events would be rare, since it's pretty easy for all parties
concerned to figure out the likely result of such an exchange.  Mr.
would-be-warlord will probably not act on his desires, since he knows
that it would at best drop his reputation through the floor, and at
worst, result in his death.

Unless of course, he's a real lunatic  -in which case, he'd have gone
out and attacked someone anyway.  It's actually better this way.  At
least we don't have to worry about intelligent would-be-warlords
manipulating the state to do their dirty work for them. 

In sum, the possibility of getting killed tends to put a damper on the
would-be-warlord population.

> >> Try to lift yourself out of the bullshit of your theory and give us at
> >> least one REAL example (current or historic) of a large scale, long lasting
> >> anarcho-capitalist society. Hippie communes are too small, and make sure
> >> it's capitalistic. If you can't think of one in the next year or so then
> >> come back and tell us.
> >
> >It hasn't happened yet.  But then, neither had the USA, before 1776.
> >The above is not a reasonable argument.
> 
> WRONG!!!! Parliaments and representative governments did exist in somewhat
> other forms. 1776 was NOT a revolution it was evolution. It comes from
> among other things the Magna Carta of England as well as many other
> concepts astutely compiled by the "forefathers".

Ok, then think of it this way.  Instead of having one big, centralized
state, where orders are given from on high, and are thus frequently
inequitous to lowly individuals, let's go for a more evenly distributed
model.  Let's carry this distribution to the point where everyone
governs himself and his property.

Previous attempts at such things would have failed, since humaity lacked
communications systems which were fast enough to link such a system
together.  
Previous forms of government all reflect this fact.  Communication was
always very centralized, and thus governance had to be as well, to keep
everyone up to speed on what's going on.  As communications technologies
improved, states have become more and more decentralized.  (go from the
mesopotamian warrior-kings, to Rome, to monarchy, to parliamentary
government, to the US).  

And today, we are presented with the internet --the ultimate in
decentralized, near instantaneous communications.  We aren't very far
from making it possible for anyone, anywhere, to communicate with anyone
else, wherever they may be.  Obviously, this makes it possible to
progress even further by decentralizing things even more!

The net result is indistinguishable from anarcho-capitalism.  I'd be
satisfied with it.  Do you like it better from this angle?

> Your propositions emanate from a basis which existed before there were
> nations and well before investment and economic development began. In fact,
> anarchy had to be overcome before consistent development could occur. Once
> we organized our societies and brought long (relatively) periods of peace
> to the general populace economic and scientific development began to grow.
> Certainly you will find it impossible to site any anarchic or nearly

No, but you couldn't have cited the United States before it existed
either.

> anarchic "society" (oxymoron)

Only if you persist in confusing society with the state.

> which has brought sustained significant
> development.
> 
> >
> >You can, of course, as me how it *could* happen.  And unfortunately,
> >you're partially correct, it couldn't happen under current conditions.
> >The amount of personal firepower that is easily accessible by everyone
> >is not sufficient to back up the soverignity of each individual.  It's
> >all linked to whether weapons technology is such that individuals can
> >operate weapons which are just as effective as those wielded by highly
> >trained and specialized groups.  The pendulum of weapons tech. swings
> >back and forth over time.  During the American Revolution, the pendulum
> >was on the side of individuals, as can be shown by the fact that the
> >revolutionaries were carrying better weapons than those carried by
> >professional soldiers, and could use them to equal or larger effect.
> >
> You whole thesis is based on violence, the exact opposite of what's
> required for sustained economic growth.

Nope, it's based on *reality*.  The only way to ensure that no one will
inflict violence upon you is to be capable of inflicting at least as
much violence upon any attacker.  What I'm telling you is that if the
above conditions exist, violence will become a very unhealthy trade, and
will not be practiced by anyone aside from the occasional lunatic who
wants to commit suicide in an interesting fashion. 

> You lose! Consistently wrong
> answers. You just don't get it.

I beg to differ.  It would appear that *you* just don't get it.  Re-read
what I've said in the light of my above paragraph, and see if you come
to the same conclusion.

> War does not produce wide spread economic
> growth in those zones affected by the war. It destroys the infrastructure

I agree that war destroys infrastructure, and is not going to cause
widespread economic growth.  I never said otherwise.  But lets look at
war for a moment, hmm?

Those who start wars usually do so because they think they can win them,
am I correct?  It would be insane to do otherwise.  If conditions were
such that nobody could be sure of winning, there would be very little
incentive to start a war, don't you agree?

Of course, in reality, wars are started between nations by their
leaders, who supposedly act on the behalf of their people.  It is
currently possible for the leader of a nation to have an incentive to
start a war which his country cannot win, so long as *he* profits by it 
-in terms of money, power, etc.  As long as he doesn't lose personally,
he can do whatever he likes (if he's sufficiently amoral, which we must
assume that some leaders will be).  

This is not the same on an individual level, however.  It is never in
the interest of the attacker to attack someone unless he can be
reasonably sure of winning.  The attacker cannot divorce himself from
the results of his actions, as the leader of a nation can, because he
cannot separate his being from his body in any effective sense.  That
is, if his body loses the fight, he's screwed.

The point you raise would seem to be yet another argument for
anarcho-capitalism.  It would appear that preople have even more
incentive not to hurt each other under those conditions than under
present ones.

> that only an organized government is capable of maintaining.

This is untrue.  Organized government is not necessary for the
maintenence of infrastructure.  See my other posts, or "The Market for
Liberty".

> The real answer is to keep the government focused on keeping the peace and
> maintaining the infrastructures using as light a hand as possible--which is
> never going to be an easy task. 

It is an impossible task, as my discussions with Jim Choate have shown.

> But no government is NO GROWTH. The
> libertarians have at least part of the equation correct. They go a little
> too far to one extreme. But this is good, they're mostly just extreme
> enough to pull a wondering government back into the middle where it should
> be. Your anarcho-spew is rubbish, poorly thought out, and without any real
> validation.

I've offered plenty of validation.  You haven't bothered trying to
invalidate these validations, which would be the only way you could
logically disprove my arguement.  Instead, you've deliberately or
unconsciously misunderstood or misread my arguements until they fit in
with what you wanted me to have said.  At which point, you spewed forth
whatever canned response you had ready for what you wished I'd said.

> I bet most of the most fervent defenders of gun ownership on this list
> actually hope never to have to make use of their tunnels, guns, and
> survival rations.

You would be correct.  I like to count myself among them.  I have no
desire to hurt or be hurt, rule or be ruled.

> War is simply not good economics,

100% correct.

> and anarchy is war--constant, festering,
> sometimes small scale, sometimes large scale, but always war.

Incorrect, for the above reasons.

We don't really disagree on the fundamentals.  I suggest that you take a
very close and unbiased look at the points where we seem to disagree.  I
suspect that upon closer examination, you will come to the same
conclusions that I have.  It all hinges on being able to think about
*why* the state might be the only possible solution to various
problems/required services.  This is usually very difficult for most
people, as they've had those beliefs drilled into their skulls since
they were young.  I've found that it's much like a religion, in some
respects.  At least, all the arguments I've ever had with religious
people on the topic of their religion kept ending up much like our
current discussion).  I've since realized how pointless it is to have
such religious arguments.  I haven't given up on politial arguments,
however, and I hope I never have to.  The result is unpleasant to think
about.

Good luck, and watch out for doublethink!

Michael Hohensee




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 05:19:15 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 12:50 PM -0500 11/11/98, Jim Choate wrote:
>Forwarded message:
>> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 10:49:23 -0500
>> From: Petro 
>> Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone
>>  (fwd)
>> 	And the system protects them. Pinochet wasn't handed over to spain
>> now was he.
>> 	It's the system.
>No, it's the British system. And to be honest it should be the American
>system also. A country should have jurisdiction only within its own borders.
>Other countries should have agreements about how persons accussed of crimes
>should be extradited.

	So leaders should be able to do whatever they want within their own
borders w/out the possibility of being held responsible for what they do to
citizens of other countries who just happen to be visiting?

	What about rule by law?

>In the anarcho-whatever system this is all eliminated because we've
>eliminated crime in the first place by legitimizing any and all strategies.

	We've also eliminated the government that allowed pinochet to be
the kind of person he was.

>> 	In N.C, Tennesee (IIRC), Illinois, and North Carolina (especially
>> N.C.) it's the state.
>Then have the law changed in those states or you could move to Texas.

	That was not the point, the point was about black market goods.

>
>> 	Crap. Pure B.S. What lead to it's regulation was a bunch of broads
>> who didn't want ANYONE drinking, so they pushed for abolition, which was a
>> total disaster, and lead to repeal.
>
>No, that was prohibition. The taxation of alcohol goes back equaly far in

	Sorry, was thinking prohibition and typing abolition.

>the history of this country. To before the articles of confederation even
>since Britian required taxes on rum and related items - espcialy if they
>were from non-British ports -  if you would stop knee-jerking responces and
>think back the Tax Acts were one of the reasons we had a revolution in the
>first place. Tea, rum, and whiskey were one of the primary motivations.

	So then you admit you were lying about the deaths and blindness
being the cause of regulation, since you claimed it happend in the late
1800's & early  1900's, but the regualtion and taxing went all the way back
to the middle ages?

>> 	Ever heard of "Muckraking"? Yellow Journalism? Could it have been
>> that that lead to some of this B.S. regulation? Nah, the press never would
>> have done something like that.
>
>Actualy, the fact that you admit that the press can be in colussion with the
>government and the businesses goes a long way toward demonstrating that
>anarcho-anything won't work because it will be even harder for

	It prevents businesses from using the Press to manipulate the
government into doing something about a problem that doesn't exist.

>whistle-blowers and 'social do-gooders' to get their message out (unless
>they're well heeled and don't mind loosing it all in the process).

	That is already/still the case. You piss off the wrong people, you
die.

>> 	Remember the movie "Reefer Madness", and the Jim Crow drug laws of
>> the early 1900's? Couldn't be that people in positions of power at the time
>> had certain agendas and used lies to further them could it.
>
>People always have agenda's (this is segues nicely into what Blanc was
>saying about attitudes), that's my point and one of the reasons that
>anarcho-whatever won't work is because it doesn't recognize this nor does it
>put any sort of limit on its expression.

	It INHERENTLY recognizes it, and inherently limits it.

	No one has the power.

	THAT'S THE POINT.

>> 	Nah, people in government NEVER behave like that.
>People always behave that way, it's the way people are. Being in government
>is only another mechanism it gets expressed through. Business is another.

	Some agendas can't be pushed thru business, or at least not the
same way.

>> 	No I didn't, EVEN IF I GET THEM LEGALLY, if I turn around and sell
>> them, it's black market, that was muy fucking point, I'm sorry if you can't
>> comprehend that sort of thing.
>
>If the doctor gives them to you without a valid medical reason then you
>didn't get them legaly. Techicaly the doctor is in violation for trafficking
>and you would be in violation for possession and use of a controlled

	Damn you're fucking DENSE. I wasn't arguing that, I KNOW that, I
ACCEPT THAT, THAT WAS NEVER THE FUCKING ISSUE.

>substance. If you knew full well that you weren't going to use them and took
>them anyway then you in effect stole them because you misled the doctor into
>giving them to you. Now if you simply sold them because you didn't like their
>side effects then only you are legaly culpible.

	If I got them legally, they were a legal commodity, if I dispose of
them legally, they move from the "white" market, to the "black" market.

	That was my entire fucking point.

>Now, your point that not everything on the black market is stolen is well
>take as I've said before (you just didn't read it, it at least explains why

	You keep arguing these side points like you don't understand what I
am saying.

	The fact that not everything on the black market was stolen ISN'T
the point, the point is that there can be things on the black market that
aren't stolen, and aren't inherently illegal (tomatoes, vicadan, alcohol)
but are still part of the black market because of the nature of the market
and the legal system.

>you keep going over the same issue until you think I'll be badgered into
>agreeing with you). The exception I take, and am still waiting for refuation
>of, is that the *majority* of goods on the black market including drugs are
>related to the theft of material or services from legitimate parties. That

	FUCKING BULLSHIT. YOu JUST brought introduced your thesis that even
if most stuff isn't actually stolen, then it is bought with money gained by
theft in your last post on this issue. Before that you were maintaining
that everything on the black market had to be stolen, and in fact this
whole side argument occured because you disagreed with me on the fact that
a black market is more defined in terms of the exchange being illegal
rather than the product.

	Tell us Jim, is it a black market if I but a new car, from a
registered dealer, with stolen money? Assuming neither he, nor anyone he
knows, nor anyone I know, excecpt for me, knows the money is stolen?

>As a history teacher once said:
>The nice thing about America is anybody can believe anything, whether they
>know what they are talking about or not.
>I respect that sentiment.

	And apparently live it every day.


>> 	I hated the shit, and didn't take it after the 2nd day, leaving me
>> clear headed, but in pain. No big deal, I've been in pain before. I traded
>> the rest of those drugs for an old computer.
>
>I certainly hope that no DEA agents are watching *and* you're not in the
>US. Admitting to a crime in a public venue, whether in a public park or a
>mailing list isn't the brightest strategy. If you're not in the US you
>should probably hope that the NSA (or whomever) is too busy to pass along
>this to the requisite authorities. I would suggest strongly that for future
>such public admission you should use a pseudonym or an anonymous remailer.

	They better be worried about a lot bigger things than that.

>> 	Either way, my point is still that the black market is about more
>> than just if the _product_ is illegal, it also relates to the trade.
>It has to do with something being illegal or not acceptable otherwise you
>could just open up a store and start trading the items directly. In the vast
>majority of cases it involves the theft of services or property from the
>valid rights holder.

	My contention all along has been that it isn't about the product,
it's about the trade, the market.

>> 	Yeah, like anyone really knows for sure.
>Well that pretty much shoots a hole in your point as well if that is your
>position. However, since the manufature of vehicles is accounted far to

	No it doesn't. It is my contention that in the drug trade, most of
the people buying come by their money thru mechanisms other than theft.
This could be from holding down a Job (as many drug users do),  begging,
prostitution, or other sources than stealing. (there is some SSI diability
fraud there, and I am not denying that theft IS used, just that it's not
the primary method).

>at least the 10's place by auto manufacturers and the sale of legitimate cars
>is traceable through tax and title I'd say that it is possible to make
>educated guesses about the scale of the market.

	Of the Auto Theft Market. Now find a way to prove what percentage
of that money goes to support the drug trade.

>> 	Because I know a lot of people who've bought drugs, and for the
>> most part it was with money they earned or receieved thru legal means.
>No, you know some people who have bought drugs, just as I do. However,

	No, I know a LOT of people who have bought drugs. Not most of the
people who have bought drugs, but a LOT of people.

>claiming that the small set you know of personaly qualifies as a lot is an
>invalid hyperbole. There are millions of drug users in this country, and
>in your entire life you've only met a few thousand at best.

	Or at worst, but your point is valid.

	Then again, it applies equally to yourself, that there really is no
way of knowing.


>> 	Your question is ignorant and irrelevant, but to answer it: Brokers.
>Oh, you mean fences...

	No Jim, fences purchase a product for  (I am given to understand
that %5 > 	I have something to sell, but I don't want to hassle with finding a
>> buyer. Joe has a lot of connections, but no goods to sell, and you are a
>> buyer. I let joe know I have product, he makes the deal, and I hire Omar to
>> deliver it to you. Joe never even sees the merchandise, but is effectively
>> the seller.
>
>You have to have possession in order to pass possesion to Joe so that he can
>sell it and pass you possession of the receipted funds (minus Joe's cut).
>Whether that possession is measured in immediate physical control (ie in
>your pants pocket) or more general (eg stored in a rent-room under an
>assumed name) is irrelevant.

	Yeah, the more I think thru this, joe would either be considered a
"seller", or a "trusted third party.

>> 	No, and for you to even say it in that manner is complete
>> disingenious.
>
>Your the one who said shoot them, what's the matter find your baby to ugly
>to look at?

	Produce the text where I said that it is always Ok to shoot someone
with whom you have a diagreement.

	Pull it out.

>I suspect that the emotionaly challenged will continue to shoot each other
>irrespective of the political system implimented. If you take guns away
>they'll knife each other and if you take knives away they'll beat each other
>to death.

	Yeah, and the system protects assholes like OK and the entire Male
side of the kennedy clan (well, John got what was coming to him...)

>Which raises an interesting point, more people are killed by physical
>assault according to the FBI crime stats than guns each year.

	What is interesting about that? Just shows that your system doesn't
do shit to stop killings.

>> say, we had a car accident and were resolving that (unless you had done
>> something like driving drunk and blatantly violating common sense rules of
>> the road like running a stop sign or a red light, in which case you are a
>> threat to me and others).
>
>Ah, I see. So your position is that if somebody runs a stop light then that
>is grounds to shoot them.

	If somebody shows that they have a lack of respect for other
peoples saftey, what do you suggest we do with them?

	Cars are implicated in more deaths every year than occured occured
during any 2 years of the Vietnam war, driving in disregard for the law and
for saftey is like waundering drunk around waving a loaded .357

	What would you suggest be done to someone waundering around drunk
off his ass and pointing a .357 at people?
--
"To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a
jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a
gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather naďve, and certainly
unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust"
http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html

Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro@playboy.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 04:23:39 +0800
To: Emile Zola 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Wednesday 11/11/98 2:26 PM

John Young
J Orlin Grabbe
Emile Zola

I visited Jim Omura president of Cylink several times.  And bought
6, I recall, CY 1024 public key arithmetic chips for Sandia.  At an
outrageous price.

Omura gave my paper on RSA encryption, posted at jya.com, to Jon Graff.

My feeling is that when those who own crypto devices manufactured
by Cylink, RSA, Crypto Ag, ... finally realize that PROBABLY 
their devices have been spiked to transmit the key with the ciphertext
there will be a reversal of fortune at these companies.

Like the current Cylink problem.  http://www.jya.com/cylink-suit.htm

The WORD is getting out.  Thanks to you guys.

And those who read Black and White will realize how to fix their
crypto problems TOO.

bill

Title: Black and White Test of Cryptographic Algorithms




	

	
		
			
				
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 21:52:39 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com
Subject: Re: Question about anarchic systems and natural disasters
Message-ID: <199811111339.OAA22865@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate writes:
> 
> What would be the responce of a anarchic system that was based on profit in
> regards something like Mitch's impact on Ctl. America and their plea for
> food and aid?

`Their plea for food and aid' is just that: a plea; it no more creates
an _obligation_ to help them than my plea for your money to help 
rebuild my burned-down house should. Still, in an anarcho-capitalistic
system, Mitch would be responded to by private individuals through
charitable aid organizations such as the Red Cross (much as it is now).
Your asking the question implies that you believe we have or should 
have an obligation to help Mitch's victims; one that justifies the use
of tax money - money that is, in effect, collected at gunpoint from 
all of us citizen units.

By the way, since you're so fond of quoting the US Constitution, please
show where the document authorizes the Men With Guns to take their
captives'^H^H^H^H^H^Hcitizens' money and give it away to help victims 
of natural disasters in foreign countries.

(Also consider that Mitch is merely one in a long line of natural
disasters that have been and continue to be inflicted on various
peoples of the world.  Some we hear about and some we don't, based on
the vagaries of the news media's inclinations and their judgement of 
how interested the American public will be. We don't end up bailing
them all out; only those which one politician or another has decided
will make them look `compassionate'. If an equivalent disaster occurred
in a less favored nation - say, an earthquake in Iran - you can bet that
the US's governmental response would be much less generous.)




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 22:06:14 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Question about insurance managed fire services...
Message-ID: <199811111350.OAA23569@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate writes:
> 
> How does company A guarantee that company B won't begin to burn down the
> customers of company A so that the economic impact on A is sufficient they
> can't participate in the market?

How does it do so now?

Fucking idiot. Do you imagine that the customers of company A (and
their police, security force or other guardian) will stand idly by
while their homes (the implied target) are burned?




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Duncan Licence 
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 02:56:23 +0800
To: "'cypherpunks@toad.com>
Subject: acceptable user policies
Message-ID: <01BE0D85.9D742A80.dlicence@dataforce.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



hey there,

	I am having to formulate an acceptable user policy for the users. Does 
anybody know of any online references, or examples of such policies. 
This would have to include specifications like email use, internet 
access, games over the LAN - anything that you can get your head around 
pertaining to such. This of course would have to weigh up between the 
rights of the users and protection of the network and PCs


	Your help would be greatly appreciated
	Duncan




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 22:49:12 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: charity at the point of a gun (Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect
Message-ID: <199811111420.PAA25606@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Anonymous writes:
> 
> Adam Back  wrote:
> 
> > What is annoying is "charity" (social security) at the point of a gun.
> > Our "conscience" is being decided by government which is acting as a
> > broker for those lobby for their "need" and for your assets to be
> > stolen and redistributed to them.
> > 
> > What people aren't willing to pay for shouldn't happen.  Period.  If
> > that means people starve well those complaining loudest had better
> > dig deeper into their pockets.
> 
> Imagine one of your kids had an accident and needed more expensive care
> than you can pay for. Would you accept government "charity"?

This is why I buy insurance.  But let's go with your example: 
imagine that I didn't buy insurance (because I didn't want to or
couldn't `afford' it or whatever), would I then be entitled to go
around the neighborhood (gun in hand) and demand `charity' from all
my neighbors?

What if my house burns down? Again, can I demand `charity' at gunpoint
from my neighbors?

What if another motorist hits my parked car and totals it? Can I
demand that my neighbors help me buy a new car?

What if a $5 million (or use $5 billion if you prefer) operation would
save my 88 year-old mother from the cancer that is killing her? Who
can I find to pay for that?

What if my self-esteem suffers because of frown lines in my forehead?
Can I demand `charity' to pay for the plastic surgery?

The question isn't and shouldn't be about whether you would `accept' 
charity (after all desperate people will do lots of things they might
not ordinarily do or even believe in), but whether your fellow citizens
ought to be REQUIRED to fund the `charity' you would like to receive.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Albert P. Franco, II" 
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 22:57:56 +0800
To: Michael Hohensee 
Subject: Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone(fwd)
In-Reply-To: <5F152E6E8E6FD21195DF00104B2425AD02B276@yarrowbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981111152214.009317f0@apf2.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




>> Without some government the Bad Guys will be the only ones with anything.
>> It is only with the threat of losing their power that leaders do good. If
>> they had no power which could be lost or taken they will always do what's
>> best for them in the short term, which is usually to shit on the peons.
>> Dictators (like Pinochet and Gates) do their dirty deeds because they feel
>> no need to placate the masses.
>
>If they wield no real power, and proceed to do whatever is best for them
>in the short term, they will be screwing themselves over in the long
>term (or short term, if doing what they want results in someone shooting
>them in self defense).
>

I re-read my original sentence and it seems that your interpretation is
possible. I would like to clarify that the power I refer to is only that
part of their power which might be lost or threatened. Clearly if they have
no power they can't lose it. I want to say that if some or all of their
power could be placed in jeopardy they would tend to better behaved. Why do
you suppose Clinton spent so much time licking everybodys' boots and
repeatedly embellishing his "apologies" to the "public".

>And precisely what dirty deeds has Mr. Gates ever done?  Excluding those
>actions in which the judicious use of state regulation was involved.

You obviously think that anything goes in business. Frankly Gates is a
perfect example of why you anarcho-BS is doomed to failure. He will do
anything (and has) he can to be the only player in every market he touches.
He has destroyed otherwise perfectly good businesses and products just to
increase his profits. He has violated workers rights to increase his
profit. In short he has demonstrated that if you let him murder wouldn't be
to far a step to reach his goals.

He is the monster that proves that your ideas are actually very very old
(caveman days) and are doomed by progress and civilization. Injecting
capitalism (investment oriented markets) into barbarism doesn't change the
fact that it is still barbarism, which in facts negates the ability to have
investment oriented markets, or capitalism. Who would invest if someone
with a gun could come and take it without out fear of retribution. 

>
>> This anarcho-capitalist spew is so much crap that the bullshit indicators
>> are blaring at top volume. If the people can't control a constitutional
>> government, known for having peacefully free elections for over two hundred
>> years, then how the hell do think you can convince somebody that the people
>> are going to be able to control warlords and monopolies. It's called, "You
>> don't like it? Bang, Bang, you're dead!"
>
>Yah, and then somebody else points a gun at Mr. would-be warlord and
>goes Bang, Bang, he's dead  (it's unsafe having warlords about --sorta
>like scorpions).  That is, if Mr. would-be manages to shoot me without
>being shot himself.
>

And so everybody's so busy shooting each other that nobody is investing,
and I have to ask, "What happened to the capitalism part of
anarcho-capitalism?"

>> Try to lift yourself out of the bullshit of your theory and give us at
>> least one REAL example (current or historic) of a large scale, long lasting
>> anarcho-capitalist society. Hippie communes are too small, and make sure
>> it's capitalistic. If you can't think of one in the next year or so then
>> come back and tell us.
>
>It hasn't happened yet.  But then, neither had the USA, before 1776. 
>The above is not a reasonable argument.

WRONG!!!! Parliaments and representative governments did exist in somewhat
other forms. 1776 was NOT a revolution it was evolution. It comes from
among other things the Magna Carta of England as well as many other
concepts astutely compiled by the "forefathers". 

Your propositions emanate from a basis which existed before there were
nations and well before investment and economic development began. In fact,
anarchy had to be overcome before consistent development could occur. Once
we organized our societies and brought long (relatively) periods of peace
to the general populace economic and scientific development began to grow.
Certainly you will find it impossible to site any anarchic or nearly
anarchic "society" (oxymoron) which has brought sustained significant
development.

>
>You can, of course, as me how it *could* happen.  And unfortunately,
>you're partially correct, it couldn't happen under current conditions. 
>The amount of personal firepower that is easily accessible by everyone
>is not sufficient to back up the soverignity of each individual.  It's
>all linked to whether weapons technology is such that individuals can
>operate weapons which are just as effective as those wielded by highly
>trained and specialized groups.  The pendulum of weapons tech. swings
>back and forth over time.  During the American Revolution, the pendulum
>was on the side of individuals, as can be shown by the fact that the
>revolutionaries were carrying better weapons than those carried by
>professional soldiers, and could use them to equal or larger effect.
>
You whole thesis is based on violence, the exact opposite of what's
required for sustained economic growth. You lose! Consistently wrong
answers. You just don't get it. War does not produce wide spread economic
growth in those zones affected by the war. It destroys the infrastructure
that only an organized government is capable of maintaining. Granted, if
you can be the one selling the weapons you might profit for a while. But
eventually, those same weapons will be turned on you.

The real answer is to keep the government focused on keeping the peace and
maintaining the infrastructures using as light a hand as possible--which is
never going to be an easy task. But no government is NO GROWTH. The
libertarians have at least part of the equation correct. They go a little
too far to one extreme. But this is good, they're mostly just extreme
enough to pull a wondering government back into the middle where it should
be. Your anarcho-spew is rubbish, poorly thought out, and without any real
validation. 

I bet most of the most fervent defenders of gun ownership on this list
actually hope never to have to make use of their tunnels, guns, and
survival rations.
War is simply not good economics, and anarchy is war--constant, festering,
sometimes small scale, sometimes large scale, but always war.

APF




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 23:29:32 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com
Subject: Re: Question about insurance managed fire services...
Message-ID: <199811111459.PAA27953@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate writes:
> > From: Anonymous 
> 
> > Jim Choate writes:
> > > 
> > > How does company A guarantee that company B won't begin to burn down the
> > > customers of company A so that the economic impact on A is sufficient they
> > > can't participate in the market?
> > 
> > How does it do so now?
> 
> Insurance regulatory agencies who monitor the behavior, investigation by a
> reasonably impartial fire dept after every fire. That's at least two.

You really are naive, Jim. Do you think that insurance regulatory 
agents follow around after all of the insurance companies' employees
to ensure they aren't starting fires?

Or do you suppose that in an anarcho-capitialistic society (unlike 
the current sainted `democratic' society), company A would be so
stupid as to make the burning of competitors' houses an official
company policy which would be found out `if only' there were a 
government regulator watching it? How long do you suppose that
company A can get away with burning down the homes of its competitors
before its agents are caught in the act (by company B's investigators
if no one else)? No, Jim, such behavior would clearly not be in the
best interests of company A's stockholders (that is, it would not be
`profitable').

Any why, in a private contractual situation, would the `fire department'
not be impartial? How does the government-provided fire department
have any advantage in impartiality?


> > Fucking idiot. Do you imagine that the customers of company A (and
> > their police, security force or other guardian) will stand idly by
> > while their homes (the implied target) are burned?
> 
> What police and security forces?

The police or security force that the customer contracts with to
protect their home of course. Idiot. These exist now in cooperation
with government-provided police (though some might naively imagine 
them to be redundant). Either you are simply being disingenuous or
you really are this stupid.

>                                  You mean the ones the same insurance
> company co-oped?

Context, Jim, context. This makes no sense whatsoever without more
context. What insurance company are you talking about? And why does
an insurance company necessarily have a direct relationship with a 
security service provider? Or did you mean `co-opted' (a different
word altogether)?


> What makes you thing that Company A or B will even advertise their actions?
> 
> Who says the homes will be burned when the residents are even home? It isn't
> like anyone is going to ask their permission.

Indeed. So what prevents anyone from doing this now? I suggest you
pretend you had a brain and try to think this through for yourself.
There simply isn't anything magical about government-provided services.
(While you are doing so, it might be instructive to remember that
prior to the late 18th century, there was no such thing as a
government-provided police force. Yet, people were still able to have
houses without insurance companies burning them down.)



> And I'm the 'fucking idiot'.

This you have amply and repeatedly demonstrated.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: b!X 
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 08:50:43 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: IP: Clinton Wants Loophole In U.S. Free Speech Closed
In-Reply-To: <199811111320.FAA09439@smtp.well.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Wed, 11 Nov 1998, Declan McCullagh wrote:

# Without endorsing Tim's "need killing" views, I would like to point out
# that Mr. b!X has a deeply flawed understanding of the Second Amendment and
# constitutional history.

Which would in no way affect the fact that it's asinine to try and use the
First Amendment to make a point about the Second Amendment (as the parody
does) because they are approached in entirely different ways to address
entirely different things.

Which was my central point.


- b!X (Guerrilla Techno-fetishist @ GEEK Force)






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: pgut001@cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 12:10:48 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: More on blind signal demodulation
Message-ID: <91075612418242@cs26.cs.auckland.ac.nz>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



There's at least one firm which makes this stuff commercially, their products
are available via http://www.appsig.com/prods/index.html.  This looks like a
one-stop ECHELON shop: you take one or more of their products (pick your type,
intended target, and budget), plug as many E1's or E3's or whatever into one 
side as you can handle (the most impressive one does 16 E3's or 7680 voice/
data channels) and all modem, fax, and voice comms going through the circuit 
are available on the other side.  They have products to do automatic channel/
signal scanning, demuxing, decoding of various data formats, processing of 
satellite and radio signals ("combines tuning, demodulation, descrambling, 
decoding, demultiplexing, and output formatting in one chassis"), every kind 
of mobile phone signal you've ever heard of, digital microwave links, decoding 
of higher-level protocols like V.42/V.42bis, X.25, HDLC, PPP, every Internet 
protocol worth doing, etc etc (their terminology is pretty neat, they have for 
example a 1.5-44.7Mbps "modem for on-the-move applications" :-).  Much of the 
hardware claims to be built to TEMPEST specs.  One interesting point is that 
most of their stuff is for E1's and E3's even though they're a US company.  
Hmmm....

Peter.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 07:12:38 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: DCSB: Mary Ellen Zurko; Jonah, IBM, Open Source, and Digital Commerce
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Mime-Version: 1.0
X-Sender: rah@pop.sneaker.net
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 16:07:03 -0500
To: dcsb@ai.mit.edu, dcsb-announce@ai.mit.edu
From: Robert Hettinga 
Subject: DCSB: Mary Ellen Zurko; Jonah, IBM, Open Source, and Digital
 Commerce
Cc: "Heffan, Ira" , Roland Mueller 
Sender: bounce-dcsb@ai.mit.edu
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: Robert Hettinga 

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

          The Digital Commerce Society of Boston

                       Presents

                     Mary Ellen Zurko

                    Security Architect,
                     Iris Associates

             "Oh Jonah, He lived in a whale",

                          or,

           How IBM decided to win in ecommerce
        by embracing standards and donating code

                Tuesday, December 1st, 1998
                       12 - 2 PM
             The Downtown Harvard Club of Boston
               One Federal Street, Boston, MA


IBM was faced with the question a year ago of how to move from a slow
starter to a leader in security infrastructure for ecommerce. Our
traditional response to that sort of question had been "Hey kids, let's buy
a company!" However, innovative internal forces recognized the power of
the current standards and open source movements. We targeted the IETF PKIX
standards as the most likely to move ecommerce forward, hired a team of
experts in security and PKI and situated them in MA, drafted existing IBM
experts in CDSA and smart cards, put together the first cross
IBM/Lotus/Iris team and the first group with a charter to write freeware,
and delivered the initial code drop to the MIT web site hosting it in
September. The team and the freeware are called Jonah. This talk will cover
the background, current status, and future of the Jonah effort.

Mary Ellen Zurko is Security Architect at Iris, the folks who brought you
Lotus Notes. She previously worked at The Open Group. She spent the four
years before Jonah leading research in innovative and usable distributed
authorization solutions, which posited the solution of the distributed
authentication problem. Her current work on public key authentication and
infrastructures is karmic revenge for such hubris. She has published papers
in user centered security, roles based access control, WWW security and
high assurance operating systems. She is an organizer of the New Security
Paradigms Workshops and a member of the IW3C2, which runs the international
WWW conferences.


This meeting of the Digital Commerce Society of Boston will be held on
Tuesday, December 1, 1998, from 12pm - 2pm at the Downtown Branch of
the Harvard Club of Boston, on One Federal Street. The price for lunch
is $32.50. This price includes lunch, room rental, various A/V hardware,
and the speaker's lunch. ;-).  The Harvard Club *does* have dress code:
jackets and ties for men (and no sneakers or jeans), and "appropriate
business attire" (whatever that means), for women.  Fair warning: since
we purchase these luncheons in advance, we will be unable to refund the
price of your lunch if the Club finds you in violation of the dress
code.


We need to receive a company check, or money order, (or, if we
*really* know you, a personal check) payable to "The Harvard Club of
Boston", by Saturday, November 28th, or you won't be on the list for
lunch.  Checks payable to anyone else but The Harvard Club of Boston
will have to be sent back.

Checks should be sent to Robert Hettinga, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston,
Massachusetts, 02131. Again, they *must* be made payable to "The
Harvard Club of Boston", in the amount of $32.50. Please include your
e-mail address, so that we can send you a confirmation

If anyone has questions, or has a problem with these arrangements
(We've had to work with glacial A/P departments more than once, for
instance), please let us know via e-mail, and we'll see if we can work
something out.


Upcoming speakers for DCSB are:

January    Ira Heffan     Internet Software and Business Process Patents
February   Roland Mueller European Privacy Directive

We are actively searching for future speakers.  If you are in Boston
on the first Tuesday of the month, and you would like to make a
presentation to the Society, please send e-mail to the DCSB Program
Commmittee, care of Robert Hettinga, .


For more information about the Digital Commerce Society of Boston,
send "info dcsb" in the body of a message to  . If you want to subscribe to the DCSB e-mail
list, send "subscribe dcsb" in the body of a message to  .

We look forward to seeing you there!

Cheers,
Robert Hettinga
Moderator,
The Digital Commerce Society of Boston

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.5.5

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-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
To unsubscribe from this list, send a letter to: Majordomo@ai.mit.edu
In the body of the message, write:  unsubscribe dcsb-announce
Or, to subscribe,           write:  subscribe dcsb-announce
If you have questions, write to me at Owner-DCSB@ai.mit.edu

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 08:37:11 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811120005.SAA26844@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 14:23:43 -0500
> From: Petro 
> Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone
>  (fwd)

> 	So leaders should be able to do whatever they want within their own
> borders w/out the possibility of being held responsible for what they do to
> citizens of other countries who just happen to be visiting?

Absolutely. It's what is meant by indipendent nation. It's between the leaders
and the citizens.

> 	What about rule by law?

What about it? I don't believe in one world governments, it's a bad idea.
Within the confines of a given country there should be a rule of law, that
rule should not necessarily be the same as any other country. And other
countries should most definitely NOT have a say in it.

Do you want Germany having a say in our laws (for example)?

> 	That was not the point, the point was about black market goods.

No, the point was about freedom of choice.

> 	So then you admit you were lying about the deaths and blindness
> being the cause of regulation, since you claimed it happend in the late
> 1800's & early  1900's, but the regualtion and taxing went all the way back
> to the middle ages?

Taxing went on, the regulation of alcohol production didn't occur in this
country until after the Civil War. Taxing alcohol is a whole different issue
than regulating the quality and methods of production, and is most certainly
not equivalent to regulations on where it might be sold and under what
conditions.

> 	It prevents businesses from using the Press to manipulate the
> government into doing something about a problem that doesn't exist.

No it doesn't. The press is a business, and if you don't think they don't
try to manipulate more than the government you're in for a surprise. There
are cases of the press being manipulated because of the impact of certain
story presentation lines on their income.

> >whistle-blowers and 'social do-gooders' to get their message out (unless
> >they're well heeled and don't mind loosing it all in the process).
> 
> 	That is already/still the case. You piss off the wrong people, you
> die.

Actualy not, there are a variety of whistle-blower laws on the book at every
level. Also the number of whistle-blowers who are killed currently are
pretty small (name 3). A lot of them loose the jobs they blew the whistle on
but that is many cases is to be expected (after all if the issue is important
enough the business will cease to exist).

> >put any sort of limit on its expression.
> 
> 	It INHERENTLY recognizes it, and inherently limits it.

No it doesn't, it does not in any way prevent abuse and further provides no
mechanism for the restitution or correction of that abuse.

> 	No one has the power.
> 
> 	THAT'S THE POINT.

No, the point is that whoever is the most ruthless will get ahead. If you
don't think that is power then you should sit and think.

> 	Some agendas can't be pushed thru business, or at least not the
> same way.

Such as? Greed and profit always can be pushed through business, it's what
they do.

> 	If I got them legally, they were a legal commodity, if I dispose of
> them legally, they move from the "white" market, to the "black" market.

Which requires that yot mislead the doctor as to why you want them.

> 	The fact that not everything on the black market was stolen ISN'T
> the point, the point is that there can be things on the black market that
> aren't stolen, and aren't inherently illegal (tomatoes, vicadan, alcohol)
> but are still part of the black market because of the nature of the market
> and the legal system.

Why would anyone buy a commenly available item on the black market when they
could go to the corner store and purchase it? They won't. People who are
involved in the black market are there for profit. If they go down to the
store and buy say tomatoes at $2/lb. whey would they sell them to you at
$1.75/lb? They wouldn't. The alcohol and cigarettes you buy on the black
market lack tax stamps are have bogus stamps. Why? Becuase the cost is much
lower without the added tax and legitimate distribution expenses.

> 	FUCKING BULLSHIT. YOu JUST brought introduced your thesis that even
> if most stuff isn't actually stolen, then it is bought with money gained by
> theft in your last post on this issue.

 Before that you were maintaining
> that everything on the black market had to be stolen, and in fact this

No, go back - I never said that. I have continously said that the majority
of items on the black market are related to a stolen service or product.
I stand by that statement.

I'd go on but it's been a long day and I'm in no mood for this petty
bickering.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Fisher Mark 
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 08:02:01 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: FW: RFC 2440 on OpenPGP Message Format
Message-ID: <2C396693FBDED111AEF60000F84104A721C062@indyexch_fddi.indy.tce.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> -----Original Message-----
> From:	RFC Editor [SMTP:rfc-ed@ISI.EDU]
> Sent:	Wednesday, November 11, 1998 5:06 PM
> Cc:	rfc-ed@ISI.EDU
> Subject:	RFC 2440 on OpenPGP Message Format
> 
> 
> A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries.
> 
> 
>         RFC 2440:
> 
>         Title:	    OpenPGP Message Format
> 	Author(s):  J. Callas, L. Donnerhacke, H. Finney, R. Thayer
> 	Status:     Proposed Standard
> 	Date:       November 1998
>         Mailbox:    jon@pgp.com, lutz@iks-jena.de, hal@pgp.com,
> 		    rodney@unitran.com
> 	Pages:      65
>         Characters: 141371
>         Updates/Obsoletes/See Also: None
>         I-D Tag:    draft-ietf-openpgp-formats-08.txt
> 
>         URL:        ftp://ftp.isi.edu/in-notes/rfc2440.txt
> 
> This document is maintained in order to publish all necessary
> information needed to develop interoperable applications based on the
> OpenPGP format. It is not a step-by-step cookbook for writing an
> application. It describes only the format and methods needed to read,
> check, generate, and write conforming packets crossing any network.
> It does not deal with storage and implementation questions.  It does,
> however, discuss implementation issues necessary to avoid security
> flaws.
> 
> This document is a product of the An Open Specification for Pretty
> Good Privacy Working Group of the IETF.
> 
> This is now a Proposed Standard Protocol.
> 
> This document specifies an Internet standards track protocol for
> the Internet community, and requests discussion and suggestions
> for improvements.  Please refer to the current edition of the
> "Internet Official Protocol Standards" (STD 1) for the
> standardization state and status of this protocol.  Distribution
> of this memo is unlimited.
> 
> This announcement is sent to the IETF list and the RFC-DIST list.
> Requests to be added to or deleted from the IETF distribution list
> should be sent to IETF-REQUEST@IETF.ORG.  Requests to be
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> Details on obtaining RFCs via FTP or EMAIL may be obtained by sending
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>         To: rfc-info@RFC-EDITOR.ORG
>         Subject: getting rfcs
> 
>         help: ways_to_get_rfcs
> 
> Requests for special distribution should be addressed to either the
> author of the RFC in question, or to RFC-Manager@RFC-EDITOR.ORG.  Unless
> specifically noted otherwise on the RFC itself, all RFCs are for
> unlimited distribution.echo 
> Submissions for Requests for Comments should be sent to
> RFC-EDITOR@RFC-EDITOR.ORG.  Please consult RFC 2223, Instructions to RFC
> Authors, for further information.
> 
> 
> Joyce K. Reynolds and Alegre Ramos
> USC/Information Sciences Institute
> 
> ...
> 
> Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant Mail Reader 
> implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version
> of the RFCs. <> 


Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 18:11:07 -0500



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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Reeza! 
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 16:39:56 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981111181139.0087e1a0@205.83.192.13>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 07:56 PM 11/10/98 -0600, Jim Choate wrote:
>Forwarded message:
>
>> Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 18:00:44 -0500
>> From: Petro 
>> Subject: Re: most of what govts do can be done by business, and done
>>  better (Re: How to solve the tax problem w/o anarchy or force)
>
>> 	Roads are the easiest (assuming a government model) things to apply
>> road use taxes to, simply tax gasoline, oil, and tires. Scale your tire tax
>> based on weight and apply it to bicycles as well, then everyone (execpt
>> peds) who uses pays.
>
>Screw that, tax the shoes.

And every man (and woman) will be come a cobbler,,,

Reeza!

	If you see a man approaching you with the obvious intention 
	of doing you good, you should run for your life.
				-stolen from a cypherpunk sig




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Reeza! 
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 16:47:00 +0800
To: b!X 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981111182325.00879d50@205.83.192.13>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 07:25 PM 11/10/98 -0800, b!X wrote:
>Yeah yeah all very well and good parody except that the 2nd amendment
>contains the word "well-regulated" and the 1st doesn't. 

Observe: --begin pasted text--

Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or
prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech,
or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to
petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


Amendment II
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State,
the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. 

--end pasted text--

While the 2nd does say "well regulated", it should also be pointed out that
the 1st does not say "right OF THE PEOPLE", except in the freedom of
assembly clause.

>(And yes I know I'm asking for a shitstorm of trouble saying that on THIS
>list of all places).

So why did you?

Reeza!

	If you see a man approaching you with the obvious intention 
	of doing you good, you should run for your life.
				-stolen from a cypherpunk sig




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Frederick Burroughs 
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 08:23:04 +0800
To: Cypherpunks 
Subject: Nationalized Public Radio
Message-ID: <364A22E6.75DEB52B@shentel.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



National Public Radio (NPR) today announced the appointment of Kevin
Klose as the next President and CEO of NPR. His stint at The Washington
Post included a position as Moscow Bureau Chief. He is currently
Director of the US International Broadcasting Bureau (IBB).

No need to hide your shortwave under the floorboards anymore, Voice of
America is now on the FM airwaves. Story at:

http://www.npr.org/inside/press/981111.klose.html




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Burnes 
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 09:53:27 +0800
To: Robert Hettinga 
Subject: Re: DCSB: Mary Ellen Zurko; Jonah, IBM, Open Source, and Digital Commerce
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Wed, 11 Nov 1998, Robert Hettinga wrote:

>           The Digital Commerce Society of Boston
> 
>                        Presents
> 
>                      Mary Ellen Zurko
> 
> Mary Ellen Zurko is Security Architect at Iris, the folks who brought you
> Lotus Notes.

I suggest she be hung by her toes until she repents for that
abomination.

;-)

jim





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Burnes 
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 10:01:18 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: "social responsibility" was (dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect) (fwd)
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




** forwarded as requested **


---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 19:04:57 -0600 (CST)
From: Jim Choate 
To: Jim Burnes 
Subject: Re: "social responsibility" was (dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect)


If you want a responce post it publicly.

> 
> On Mon, 9 Nov 1998, Jim Choate wrote:
> 
> > > 	I am willing to pay for fire protection. I am not willing to pay
> > > for "universal health care", "welfare", and other such nonsense.
> > 
> > The Constitution happens to mention that the federal government is detailed
> > with taking care of the general welfare. If you don't like that sort of stuff
> > then get a Constitutional amendment passed.
> > 
> 
> Wow.  He said it.  This proves that Jim hasn't really read any history
> since public high school.
> 
> Actually this is the central fallacy of those that haven't bothered to
> actually read the federalist papers, the anti-federalist papers or the
> constitution, much less say how it should be amended. 
> 
> If a constitutional amendment had to have been passed it would have been
> to give the federal government unlimited power to do what they believe is
> in the interests of our general welfare.   Madison explicitly addressed
> the issue of unlimited federal power emanating from the welfare clause.
> 
> Had the supreme court bothered to read the founder's writings on this
> they would have found it in a week or two.  That's assuming their
> conclusion was not already decided.
> 
> The constitution is a document that enumerates the powers of the federal
> government.  It is very specific.  As Madison stated, if the general
> welfare clause meant what the socialist engineers wished it meant, there
> would have been no need to enumerate the specific powers of the federal
> government.  In fact, it would have been as if the founding fathers had
> said: 
> 
> "The federal government has unlimited power to do whatever it
> feels necessary."
> 
> "The powers of the federal government are as follows"
> 
> (1) 
> (2)
> (3) etc
> 
> Which would be ridiculous on its face.
> 
> The reality of the situation is that Roosevelt kept trying to stack the
> Supreme Court.  He eventually suceeded in appointing his socialist
> crony judges to "reinterpret" the constitution.  The first result
> of this was that Social (in)Security was ruled constitutional because
> it was in "the general welfare".
> 
> This was probably the last nail in the coffin of the Republic.  The first
> nail was imposing huge export duties on cotton in order to limit demand
> outside the country -- in effect driving down cotton prices so it could be
> had cheaply by the northern industrial (clothing/textile) markets. 
> Southern states saw this as blatant price controls.  In their inability to
> change the taxes they sought to leave the union.  A prime example of the
> old adage -- "the power to tax is the power to destroy".  In this case it
> was destroying the union itself.  Only after the war was on did the north
> use the anti-slavery propaganda to peddle their cause.  And use it to good
> advantage they did.  I'm glad the slaves were emancipated, but I wish
> it were done with less blood and more foresight.
> 
> Bear in mind that as a libertarian I view slavery as one of the ultimate
> evils.  However, the northern industrialists had no leg to stand on
> because they were one of the prime beneficiaries of cheap labor and thus
> cheap cotton prices during the era of westward expansion.  Never mind that
> only the wealthy in the south owned slaves.  If that was so, why was the
> opposition to the feds so virulent? 
> 
> By 1913, Jekyl Island was a done deal.  The income tax and the federal
> reserve banking system were unleashed.  A concise discussion of this is
> beyond the scope of this posting.  Needless to say centralized federal
> power was on the move.  The system of institutionalized fiat currency was
> one of the main causes of the 1929 crash that put Roosevelt in power.  It
> was that "government breaks your leg, government hands you a crutch,
> government becomes savior"  mentality that resulted in the endless cycle
> of market distortions and power grabs that put us where we are now. 
> 
> Does this mean that Roosevelt was "evil".  No.  Just that, as one
> playwrite once said, "the conflict of good against good is much more
> interesting".  Well-intentioned "good people" have contributed more to the
> misery of the human race that any other factor alone.  I'm sure that
> Roosevelt felt he was doing "good" when he undid the Republic.  His
> crowning achievment was his stacking of the Supreme Court and the
> resulting unlimited expansion of federal power.  If this country survives
> Y2K it will have to contend with the issue that the scope of the federal
> government's power is not unlimited.  Something has got to give.  Y2K
> seems as likely a bifurcation and surfaction point as any. 
> 
> Maybe Hettinga is right.  Economics, like physics obeys the "reality is
> not an option" rule.  When centralized bureacracy becomes too expensive
> the invisible hand will select something more efficient. 
> 
> jim
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 03:09:34 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: GOST still used?
Message-ID: <199811111837.TAA12319@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Can anyone report whether GOST is still used anywhere?











From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 10:16:47 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Elder Kennedy ordered to tesify to Grand Jury (if you can call it that) [CNN] (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811120155.TAA27276@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 20:59:11 -0500 (EST)
> From: Rabid Wombat 
> Subject: Re: Elder Kennedy ordered to tesify to Grand Jury (if you can call it that) [CNN]

> Why would this be "unconstitutional?"

Juries are to be composed of your peers taken from the community in which
the crime occurred. A single judge doesn't make a jury of ones peers.

> Are you at all familiar with the case? There seems to be a fair amount of 
> evidence, circumstantial or otherwise, that would indicate a certain 
> politically and financially powerful family used its influence to keep 
> the two prime suspects in the case from coming to trial for over 20 
> years.

Irrelevant, one doesn't throw away the justice system because it might have
been abused. One wrong does not justify another.

> One judge is better than nothing. OTOH, maybe a football, a few pine 
> trees, and some vertical slope would do justice. 

Actualy 10 guilty men walking free is better than one innocent man in jail,
or a justice system that gets abused.

> (Or do you think there should be a statute of limitations involved?) 

Irrelevant.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 13:23:52 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: GOST still used?
In-Reply-To: <199811111837.TAA12319@replay.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981111195910.008ba910@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 07:37 PM 11/11/98 +0100, Anonymous allegedly wrote:
>Can anyone report whether GOST is still used anywhere?

If you're asking "_Should_ I use GOST?", the answer is 
"No, not unless you really, really understand it,
and there's something it does much better for you than
more open cryptosystems, such as 3DES, RC4, or Blowfish."

GOST isn't just one cryptosystem; it's a family with different S-Boxes,
one or more sets for the Soviet military, one set commonly seen publicly,
some sets made by software writers, etc.
The strength depends critically on the values chosen for the S-Boxes,
and the Soviet military kept theirs secure.

Maybe the Russian Army or other ex-Soviet countries' armies use it,
and maybe the KGB understood it well enough for this to be ok,
if you think trusting the KGB or Soviet Military Intelligence
for advice on cryptosystems can make something ok...

But even if you understand the algorithm well enough to 
know how strong it is, and that's strong enough for you, why bother?
There are publicly analyzed algorithms that are strong enough
and well-analyzed, like 3DES, and algorithms that are fast and strong,
like Blowfish or correctly-used RC4.


				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 10:55:37 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: "social responsibility" was (dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect) (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811120230.UAA27385@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 19:27:21 -0700 (MST)
> From: Jim Burnes 
> Subject: Re: "social responsibility" was (dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect) (fwd)

> > Actually this is the central fallacy of those that haven't bothered to
> > actually read the federalist papers, the anti-federalist papers or the
> > constitution, much less say how it should be amended. 

That's an easy way to brush aside having to prove your point. Especialy
after having drawn a completely illogical and incorrect conclusion like
this.

> > If a constitutional amendment had to have been passed it would have been
> > to give the federal government unlimited power to do what they believe is
> > in the interests of our general welfare.

This sentence makes no sense, mind rewording it so I know specificaly what
it is your talking about. No amendment has to be passed.

>   Madison explicitly addressed
> > the issue of unlimited federal power emanating from the welfare clause.

Would you mind explaining where providing for the *general* welfare equates
to unlimited powers? No government has unlimited powers and providing for
the general welfare can't honestly be extrapolated to that conclusion.
Within the context of the Constitution general welfare is in reference to
building a framework for the expression of life, liberty, and the pursuit of
happiness.

> > Had the supreme court bothered to read the founder's writings on this
> > they would have found it in a week or two.  That's assuming their
> > conclusion was not already decided.

Found what? Whose conclusions, the founding fathers or the sitting supremes?

> > The constitution is a document that enumerates the powers of the federal
> > government.  It is very specific.

And prohibits the enumeration of individual liberties by the same
government. Rather handy little situation that, since it completely blows
holes in any move to derive totalitarian control (which by the way is not
democratic).

  As Madison stated, if the general
> > welfare clause meant what the socialist engineers wished it meant, there
> > would have been no need to enumerate the specific powers of the federal
> > government.

Well to be accurate there was no enumeration of the specific powers in the
original Constitution, it's why Jefferson (who was in France at the time),
Madison, and others fought and supported the Bill of Rights. Because of the
9th and 10th such moves are inherently doomed to failure.

  In fact, it would have been as if the founding fathers had
> > said: 
> > 
> > "The federal government has unlimited power to do whatever it
> > feels necessary."
> > 
> > "The powers of the federal government are as follows"
> > 
> > (1) 
> > (2)
> > (3) etc
> > 
> > Which would be ridiculous on its face.

This entire section is ridiculous. To say on one hand the powers are
unlimited and then to proceed to list them weakens the argument, this was
also the reason for the 10th. It prevents such extrapolations as this.

> > The reality of the situation is that Roosevelt kept trying to stack the
> > Supreme Court.

Wow, I didn't realize Roosevelt was even alive to participate in the
original Constitutional debates.

I'm going to stop here since we are obviously off on one of your pet peeves
that isn't related to the discussion at hand. To jump 150 years in one fell
swoop is pretty extraordinary. The reality is, as Jefferson himself said,
that the laws of one generation aren't the laws of another.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 11:18:17 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 7:05 PM -0500 11/11/98, Jim Choate wrote:
>Forwarded message:
>> 	So leaders should be able to do whatever they want within their own
>> borders w/out the possibility of being held responsible for what they do to
>> citizens of other countries who just happen to be visiting?
>
>Absolutely. It's what is meant by indipendent nation. It's between the leaders
                                     ^^^
	Freudian slip? (no, I am not harrassing you about spelling, I don't
have the moral authority on that point.

>and the citizens.
>
>> 	What about rule by law?
>
>What about it? I don't believe in one world governments, it's a bad idea.
>Within the confines of a given country there should be a rule of law, that
>rule should not necessarily be the same as any other country. And other
>countries should most definitely NOT have a say in it.

	There is an expectation that when one travels, one is protected by
certain laws, at least the laws of the country that one is traveling to.

	There are also certain types of crimes that are so morally
reprehensible that to allow them to continue is not possible.

	Or are you willing to go on record as stating that what Stalin did
to the Jews (or Hitler for that matter) was acceptable, since we shouldn't
have a say in their laws?

>Do you want Germany having a say in our laws (for example)?

	They do already, it's called international trade.

	Also, if I were a Catholic in a death camp because Jesse Helms
ramed thru legislation blaming the Y2K bug on the Holy C, I'd hope someone
would intervine.

>> 	That was not the point, the point was about black market goods.
>No, the point was about freedom of choice.

	My comments were in regard to black market goods.

>
>> 	So then you admit you were lying about the deaths and blindness
>> being the cause of regulation, since you claimed it happend in the late
>> 1800's & early  1900's, but the regualtion and taxing went all the way back
>> to the middle ages?
>
>Taxing went on, the regulation of alcohol production didn't occur in this
>country until after the Civil War. Taxing alcohol is a whole different issue
>than regulating the quality and methods of production, and is most certainly
>not equivalent to regulations on where it might be sold and under what
>conditions.

	But you claimed it started in the early 1900's in response to
deaths and blindness.

>> prevents businesses from using the Press to manipulate the
>> government into doing something about a problem that doesn't exist.
>
>No it doesn't. The press is a business, and if you don't think they don't
>try to manipulate more than the government you're in for a surprise. There
>are cases of the press being manipulated because of the impact of certain
>story presentation lines on their income.

	It prevents the press from manipulating the government because
there ISN'T ONE, or if there is (in the case of extreme
libertarian/minarchist) it is so restricted and powerless it can't do
anything execpt try to gather more power.

	Yes, businesses can manipulate the press, and do-gooders can always
start their own press and fight back.

>> >whistle-blowers and 'social do-gooders' to get their message out (unless
>> >they're well heeled and don't mind loosing it all in the process).
>> 	That is already/still the case. You piss off the wrong people, you
>> die.
>
>Actualy not, there are a variety of whistle-blower laws on the book at every
>level. Also the number of whistle-blowers who are killed currently are

	Yeah, and there are laws against Drug Dealing which work real well.

>pretty small (name 3). A lot of them loose the jobs they blew the whistle on

	I wanna say Karen something or other as one case--Silkwood?

	Point still holds, you speak out, you get in trouble, legal or no.
Laws don't prevent things from happening, they simply give society the
moral authority to say "We Warned You, Now Off With His Head" or some such.

	When was the last time you _didn't_ kill someone just because it is
illegal? It's only been like twice in my life. Well, and another time a
buddy took the gun out of my hands.

>but that is many cases is to be expected (after all if the issue is important
>enough the business will cease to exist).

	It's expected, but illegal?

>> 	It INHERENTLY recognizes it, and inherently limits it.
>
>No it doesn't, it does not in any way prevent abuse and further provides no
>mechanism for the restitution or correction of that abuse.

	It prevents government abuse, it prevents systemic abuse of power
and authority.

	It also makes it easier to get people to resist abuse & to fight
back, since the abuse isn't built in, nor do the abusers have any sort of
"authority" to fall back on.

>> 	No one has the power.
>> 	THAT'S THE POINT.
>No, the point is that whoever is the most ruthless will get ahead. If you

	Which is different from now HOW?

	Isn't Billy Gates one of your poster boys for being ruthless? Isn't
he so far head of the rest of us that he could be in court for the rest of
his life and not spend everything?

	Yeah, the current system really prevents the ruthless from getting
ahead.


>> 	Some agendas can't be pushed thru business, or at least not the
>> same way.
>
>Such as? Greed and profit always can be pushed through business, it's what
>they do.

	Damn, had one when I wrote that. Shit should have sited it. It
basically fell into "at least not the same way".

	Greed is not an agenda, it is an emotion, Profit is an agenda.

>> 	If I got them legally, they were a legal commodity, if I dispose of
>> them legally, they move from the "white" market, to the "black" market.
>Which requires that yot mislead the doctor as to why you want them.

	No it doesn't. I just showed you an example of one way to not
mis-lead the doctor (I fully inteneded on taken the pills, I just didn't
like them) a doctor and still get the meds.

>> 	The fact that not everything on the black market was stolen ISN'T
>> the point, the point is that there can be things on the black market that
>> aren't stolen, and aren't inherently illegal (tomatoes, vicadan, alcohol)
>> but are still part of the black market because of the nature of the market
>> and the legal system.
>Why would anyone buy a commenly available item on the black market when they
>could go to the corner store and purchase it? They won't. People who are

	You can sometimes find people in Chicago selling cigerattes out of
the trunks of their car. Allegedly this were purchased in a state (Indiana
or Michigan) with lower taxes, and carried across state lines (which is
illegal, if done for purpose of sale) to be sold for less than taxed
cigarettes here.

	I can't speak more to this specifically since I don't know any more.

>involved in the black market are there for profit. If they go down to the
>store and buy say tomatoes at $2/lb. whey would they sell them to you at
>$1.75/lb? They wouldn't. The alcohol and cigarettes you buy on the black
>market lack tax stamps are have bogus stamps. Why? Becuase the cost is much
>lower without the added tax and legitimate distribution expenses.

	Sometimes they don't bother with the stamps. This also doesn't mean
that the product is stolen, it could simply be purchased in bulk in a lower
cost market & transported.

	Kinda like Blue Jeans in the USSR.

>> 	FUCKING BULLSHIT. YOu JUST brought introduced your thesis that even
>> if most stuff isn't actually stolen, then it is bought with money gained by
>> theft in your last post on this issue.
>
> Before that you were maintaining
>> that everything on the black market had to be stolen, and in fact this
>
>No, go back - I never said that. I have continously said that the majority
>of items on the black market are related to a stolen service or product.
>I stand by that statement.

You said:
>Actualy a black market is usualy goods gotten through theft or other illegal
>means, not necessarily anything related to how or what is sold. If you don't
>corrupt free-market to include legitimizing theft as a viable market
>strategy then yes, you can in fact have a black market in a free-market.

	Now, I took that to mean "The black market is usually trade in
goods aquired thru theft or other illegal means", rather than "the black
market is usually comprised of goods related to a stolen service, or
product, or are paid for by money aquired the same way", this was in
response to a query were I said:

	Assuming your definition of "free market" is "a market without
regulation", you can't have a black market in a free market since a black
market is trade in violation of regulations.

	In other words, a Black market is when you trade either illegal
goods illegally, or legal goods illegally.

	If there are no illegal goods, and there is no regulations limiting
trading, then the black market cannot exist.

>I'd go on but it's been a long day and I'm in no mood for this petty
>bickering.

	Yes, it has been a long day, and I'm in the mood to blow large
holes in things, but my boss won't let me go to Boston (well, burlington)
just yet.

	I just hope you're a better programmer than those schmucks at where
we bought our latest peice of shit e-commerce package.
--
"To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a
jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a
gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather naďve, and certainly
unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust"
http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html

Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro@playboy.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 11:27:24 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 8:55 PM -0500 11/11/98, Jim Choate wrote:
>Forwarded message:
>
>> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 20:59:11 -0500 (EST)
>> From: Rabid Wombat 
>> Subject: Re: Elder Kennedy ordered to tesify to Grand Jury (if you can
>>call it that) [CNN]
>
>> Why would this be "unconstitutional?"
>
>Juries are to be composed of your peers taken from the community in which
>the crime occurred. A single judge doesn't make a jury of ones peers.

	Jim, "Grand Jury", a jury to see if there is enough evidence to
warrant a full trial.

>Irrelevant, one doesn't throw away the justice system because it might have
>been abused. One wrong does not justify another.

	Correct, but this isn't a guilty or innocent trial, this is a "is
there enough evidence to try this person" type trial.

	This judge can't throw the perp in jail, only throw another trial
where there will be 12 to judge.
--
"To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a
jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a
gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather naďve, and certainly
unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust"
http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html

Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro@playboy.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Rabid Wombat 
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 10:21:24 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: Elder Kennedy ordered to tesify to Grand Jury (if you can call it that) [CNN]
In-Reply-To: <199811110414.WAA22671@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Why would this be "unconstitutional?"

Are you at all familiar with the case? There seems to be a fair amount of 
evidence, circumstantial or otherwise, that would indicate a certain 
politically and financially powerful family used its influence to keep 
the two prime suspects in the case from coming to trial for over 20 
years.

One judge is better than nothing. OTOH, maybe a football, a few pine 
trees, and some vertical slope would do justice. 

(Or do you think there should be a statute of limitations involved?) 

-r.w.

On Tue, 10 Nov 1998, Jim Choate wrote:

> Forwarded message:
> 
> > X-within-URL: http://www.cnn.com/US/9811/10/kennedy.testimony.ap/
> 
> >    STAMFORD, Connecticut (AP) -- A Florida judge on Tuesday ordered the
> >    elderly brother of Ethel Kennedy to testify before a Connecticut grand
> >    jury investigating a 1975 slaying in which his two sons are suspects.
> >    
> >    Rushton Skakel, 74, of Hobe Sound, Florida, was ordered to testify
> >    about what he knows about the slaying of Martha Moxley, a 15-year-old
> >    Greenwich girl who was bludgeoned to death with a golf club.
> 
> ...
> 
> >    The case stalled for years but was revived this spring by the
> >    appointment of a grand jury consisting of a single judge.
> 
> [remainder deleted]
> 
> Now if that isn't unconstitutional I don't know what is. He and his lawyer
> should be screaming bloody murder (figuratively).
> 
> 
>     ____________________________________________________________________
>  
>             Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
>             the right answers.
> 
>                                         Scully (X-Files)
> 
>        The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
>        Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
>        www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
>                            -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
>     --------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Steve Schear 
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 04:05:46 +0800
To: John Young 
Subject: Re: Cylink Sued for Stock Fraud
In-Reply-To: <199811111641.LAA06325@camel14.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>Business Wire reported yesterday that Cylink has been
>sued in US District Court of New Jersey for securities
>fraud through a class action. It alleges misrepresentation
>and false financial statements.

I heard, from a former senior employee, a week or so ago that things were
not well there, but had no idea it was this bad (ir I would have shorted
the stock, oh well).

--Steve






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 13:09:53 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Elder Kennedy ordered to tesify to Grand Jury (if you can (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811120446.WAA27641@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 20:52:06 -0500
> From: Petro 
> Subject: Re: Elder Kennedy ordered to tesify to Grand Jury (if you can
>  call it that) [CNN] (fwd)

> 	Jim, "Grand Jury", a jury to see if there is enough evidence to
> warrant a full trial.
> 
> >Irrelevant, one doesn't throw away the justice system because it might have
> >been abused. One wrong does not justify another.
> 
> 	Correct, but this isn't a guilty or innocent trial, this is a "is
> there enough evidence to try this person" type trial.
> 
> 	This judge can't throw the perp in jail, only throw another trial
> where there will be 12 to judge.

				ARTICLE V. 
 
	No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise 
infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, 
except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, 
when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any 
person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of 
life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness 
against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property without 
due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, 
without just compensation. 
 
 
 
				ARTICLE VI. 
 
	In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right 
to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and 
district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district 
have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the 
nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses 
against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his 
favor, and to have Assistance of Counsel for his defence. 
 

 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

By definition a jury is more than one, it's the reason they are implimented;
to moderate the biases of the individual.

Secondly, a judge is not impartial when acting in the stead of the state in
two capacities at one time. Especialy when by their very nature they are at
least to some degree confrontational.

Dem's da rules bubba. The Kennedy lawyers should be throwing civil right
shit fits about now.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 13:36:15 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Elder Kennedy ordered to tesify to Grand Jury (if you can (fwd) [a couple of other comments]
Message-ID: <199811120514.XAA27764@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> 				ARTICLE V. 
>  
> 	No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise 
> infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, 
> except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, 
> when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any 
> person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of 
> life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness 
> against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property without 
> due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, 
> without just compensation. 

It's important to read that part about depriving life, liberty, or property
within the context of forced medication, deprivation of social contacts,
etc. before a trial has even been held. A person is innocent until proven
guilty, and that means you can deprive him of geographic freedom if they
can't pay bail. Outside of that any interruption or loss of income is the
responsibility of the state to recompensate. It should also guarantee that if
found innocent the incident won't have an impact on current or future career
and life opportunities. They're sworn to protect life, liberty, and the
pursuit of happiness with their lives if necessary. That's why their called
PUBLIC SERVANTS.

Note that property may be taken by the state through due process, private
property (my home, personal savings, papers, etc.) can't be siezed for *ANY*
reason without just compensation. Businesses and shared accounts (such as
401k's perhaps) are fair game.

I break the law and you want to take my house?

Fucking get your check book out. Otherwise it's theft and that's a crime in
principle and practice. This means that *EVERY* confiscation law on the
books yesterday, today, or tomorrow are completely illegal if they allow
confiscation of private property in relation to crime.

If the LEA's, courts, politicians, etc. really, really, really believe that
the people of this country want to allow them to confiscate their property
in relation to criminal activity then they should parent an amendment to
that effect immediately. I'll tell you now, it ain't got a hope in hell.
And when the reckoning day comes on this particular issue it's going to be a
doozie.

> 				ARTICLE VI. 
>  
> 	In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right 
> to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and 
> district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district 
> have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the 
> nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses 
> against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his 
> favor, and to have Assistance of Counsel for his defence. 

Note that the right to have *ASSISTANCE* of counsel is guaranteed. This
means the state must provide you an attorney to assist in the correct
process documentation *EVEN* if you represent yourself. Because it uses the
term assistance there can be no implied power of attorney without direct and
unconstrained and willing complicity by the accussed.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Lucky Green 
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 07:33:45 +0800
To: Bill Stewart 
Subject: Re: Free Email as Anonymous Remailer Re: NPR is at it again...
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981111015237.0079f350@idiom.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Wed, 11 Nov 1998, Bill Stewart wrote:
 
> I suspect this is what will replace the current remailer system -
> chaining through some set of Crowds, Onions, and commercial and free
> anonymizers to reach a free email system to transmit and receive email.
> An interesting project would be a free low-volume anonymizer cgi for Apache,
> given the large number of current users and the much larger number
> of people who will run web servers once they have cable modems.

How do you do chaining with a cgi?

-- Lucky Green  PGP v5 encrypted email preferred.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Reeza! 
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 23:42:04 +0800
To: b!X 
Subject: Re: IP: Clinton Wants Loophole In U.S. Free Speech Closed
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981111182325.00879d50@205.83.192.13>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981112000622.0086e100@205.83.192.13>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 05:27 AM 11/11/98 -0800, b!X wrote:
>
>And notice also that the 1st begins with "Congress shall make no law" while
>the 2nd begins with "a well regulated militia".

and

>Becos the attempted paraody was lame in the same ways that all attempts to
>nonrationally support 2nd amendment freedoms by calling down the gods of 1st
>amendment freeomds always are nonrational. (And no, that's not me saying
>supporting 2nd amendment freedoms is irrational; it's me saying using the
>1st amendment to do so is irrational).

Let's try this again.

Notice how, in each of the amendments below, the 1st is the only one with
the text "congress shall make no law".

This is implied, understood to be implied, accepted as implied and supreme
court ruled to be implied as applicable to each of the rest of the bill of
rights, and later to the amendments, wherein it is not so specified as in
the 1st.

A large part of the reason that 2 thru 10 and the rest do not include that
phrase is to prevent the states from doing the very thing that congress was
and is prohibited from.

Congress cannot pass any law that would infringe freedom of speech, they
cannot cause the states by threat or incentive to pass such laws either-
say by withholding highway maintenance funding a la 55.

Arbitrary out of context interpretations of documents such as this are just
that. I grant you no brownie points for comprehension, you may have earned
some demerits for instigating a straw man.

Go to the back of the class.

Reeza!

--begin pasted text--

Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or
prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech,
or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to
petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


Amendment II
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State,
the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. 


Amendment III
No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the
consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed
by law.


Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and
effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated,
and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or
affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the
persons or things to be seized.


Amendment V
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous
crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in
cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in
actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be
subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb;
nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against
himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process
of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just
compensation.


Amendment VI
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy
and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein
the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been
previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause
of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have
compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the
Assistance of Counsel for his defense.


Amendment VII
In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty
dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried
by a jury, shall be otherwise reexamined in any Court of the United States,
than according to the rules of the common law.


Amendment VIII
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor
cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.


Amendment IX
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be
construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.


Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor
prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or
to the people.

--end pasted text--


	If you see a man approaching you with the obvious intention 
	of doing you good, you should run for your life.
				-stolen from a cypherpunk sig




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: scoops 
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 16:45:11 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Fwd: GOST
Message-ID: <199811120825.AAA03522@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 12:50:36 -0800
>To: cypherpunks@toad.com
>From: scoops 
>Subject: GOST
>
>Jetico  a Finnish company (I believe) offers a number of
encryption algorithms in its BestCrypt package, among which is GOST which
it reports having a 256 key (it also sports Blowfish and DES as I recall).
I also remember a few weeks ago reports in the press and on the List of a
porn ring broken up and some agent involved saying that the some porn was
encrypted in an old KGB program which sounded much like GOST.  The
implication is that it's transparent to the feds.  However I have no idea
about various levels at which it might be implimented.  I'm sure the real
experts on the List will fill you in. 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 15:10:49 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811120647.AAA27853@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 20:34:10 -0500
> From: Petro 
> Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the Foregone
>  (fwd)

> 	There is an expectation that when one travels, one is protected by
> certain laws, at least the laws of the country that one is traveling to.

Absolutely, that concept does not proscribe them from making a law to
recognize the laws of other countries. It doesn't make it right but then
again the freedom of choice implies the freedom to make mistakes. It figures
that on occassion it'll be a whopper (TM).

If Penoche didn't know that Spain could extradite him from England then
he needs to hire a new lawyer. There is absolutely no expectation in the
concept of freedom that prohibits one from walking into a police station and
admitting a crime. This isn't even an issue, neither the British or the
Spanish forced him to England. And the Spanish didn't force Britian to sign
the treaty recognizing extradition. He got what he deserves. He was stupid
to have treated anyone like that and he was stupid to go to England. He is a
stupid man.

My personal view is I don't care unless I am in that country. If I have an
expectation to go somewhere I check on the laws before I'd go.

> 	There are also certain types of crimes that are so morally
> reprehensible that to allow them to continue is not possible.

Absolutely, and each country should have it's right to choose it's own
particular brand of reprehensibility recognized.

> 	Or are you willing to go on record as stating that what Stalin did
> to the Jews (or Hitler for that matter) was acceptable, since we shouldn't
> have a say in their laws?

Well, you have to understand I'm a pantheist. I know it's easy to shrug off
and say "so what" but I can't answer this exactly unless you fundamentaly
understand literal pantheism. But I'll try.

I believe there is no transcendence. As a result everything is divine
because that's all there is. To disrespect the uniqueness in anything is a
disservice to self. However, concepts of literal sin to my view simply don't
exist. The killing of a human by a human is not fundamentaly (think of it as
outside of human society, it's close but not close enough) different than a
human killing a rabbit, or crushing a rock, or painting a picture. It's an
activity, in and of itself it is nothing more than a cold, cosmic event
mediated by complete and utter indifference. The universe does not act with
anthropocentric motives or mechanations. However, within the concerns of
human biology, psychology, and society there is a very real distinction. As
a matter of fact there are quite a few. Since they are all a construct of
human existance they deserve some level of respect, the freedom of
expression in speech and press, not necessarily in action. Because of the
fundamental uniqueness of anything, to destroy or change it with willful
intent (I wish I could express this better, all I can say is it isn't what
normal English means by those two words exactly enough) except in
self-defence or survival (eg killing an animal for food) is not moraly
(permissible at the level of individual) or ethicaly (the range of
permissible acts related to an activity, say a doctor or lawyer)
supportable.

I am willing to go on record stating that what they did from a national
level should concern no nation that is not directly involved. Nations do not
have the right to impose their will on other nations, period. Nations may of
course dissolve and reform of their own free will and whim. From a personal
level everyone should have run over there in about 1936 and kicked their
stinking ass as volunteers (the fact that it is not in human nature to
participate in mass exhibitions like this voluntarily is another reason that
anarcho-whatevers won't work). From a fundamentaly cosmic perspective what
they did is completely and utterly irrelevant and of no consequence. At the
same time I'm horrified that human beings can do that to other people and
live with themselves. The total lack of empathy I find utterly chilling.
Poppy Z. Brite in carnate.

Let me give you another example, unless the US is attacked directly by Iraq
we have no business threatening, let alone initiating, violence.

But I'll do what I did the last time we got in a scrap with the rag-head,
whatever I can. To do any less might cost somebody their life through my
negligent short-term unprincipled self-interest, a sin of ommission for a man
of no sins, I won't stop bitching about it either.

Does that help any better? Life is a contradiction in motion.

> >Do you want Germany having a say in our laws (for example)?
> 
> 	They do already, it's called international trade.

Me selling apples to a German doesn't involve their having a say in my law
making unless I'm an idiot in making the laws I operate under. There are
treaties, but the assumption is that they are entered into freely and with
comprehension. If they don't and do well that's their problem.

> 	Also, if I were a Catholic in a death camp because Jesse Helms
> ramed thru legislation blaming the Y2K bug on the Holy C, I'd hope someone
> would intervine.

Congress can't make laws respecting establishments of religion. Not only
can't they support any, they can't prohibit any, they can't even
constitutionaly decide what a religion is. Per the 10th that is left to the
individual states and their respective representative constitutions.

> 	But you claimed it started in the early 1900's in response to
> deaths and blindness.

The regulation of the manufacture and sales of alcohol started after the
civil war, late 1800' and early 1900's depending on your geography. It's
impossible to set a single date since the various laws were'not all initiated
at the same time. I believe somebody else is the person who equated
prohibition with regulation. In general the laws were put in place because
either there was a problem with tainted alcohol (this was a real problem in
the very early 1900's because of the use of lead pipes and other amalgams
that don't treat people nicely) or excessive consumption by the youth
usualy (ala The Great Gatsby). The laws got a lot more draconian after
prohibition was renounced. This is when many states really jumped on the
taxation band-wagon.

The reasoning behind the taxation of alcohol is the same today as it was in
Jeffersons day. He said that the taxation was intended to reduce the use
because of its debilitating effects. Then of course there is the
consideration of what a government can do with that money as well. This
taxation is what started the Whiskey Rebellion in the late 1790's. Jefferson
finaly repealed it after quite a string of violence in the early 1800's
(sorry I don't remember the actual dates, a web search on Whiskey Rebellion
would probably turn something up). During the whole thing Washington was
riding his fat ass around buying cheap land and forceably moving people who
had lived there, in general acting the little tyrant. He was involved in at 
least two related deaths and had invested in the business and supported the
taxation.

What's really interesting is that when these taxes were intiated in the
early 1700's (originaly by the British) they were imposed on the
manufacturer not the consumer even though they were to limit the consumption
and not the manufacture.

The history of alcohol is long and twisted.

> 	It prevents the press from manipulating the government because
> there ISN'T ONE, or if there is (in the case of extreme
> libertarian/minarchist) it is so restricted and powerless it can't do
> anything execpt try to gather more power.

True, but then the news papers (they are not the same as the press - where
that commen misconception is from is beyond my keen) would just pander to
their extant major supporter, advertisers. How honest do you think that
would make them? Not very. If given the choice between the truth or a fatter
check newspapers (and their reporters) have in general chosen the way of the
greenback.

Jefferson said he would never write a line in a newspaper, and didn't. He
thought them vile. He however held the free press (he meant unrestrained
communication between individuals) in high regard (obviously).

> 	Yes, businesses can manipulate the press, and do-gooders can always
> start their own press and fight back.

Who do they buy the press parts from? The ink and paper? The distribution
channles? Etc. You might be able to start one up but you won't last long in
a monotonicly profit driven free-market. If they rake muck too much they
won't have a rake anymore.

> 	Yeah, and there are laws against Drug Dealing which work real well.

There's probably a lesson in there somewhere...

> 	I wanna say Karen something or other as one case--Silkwood?

That was one of the ones I was thinking of.

> 	Point still holds, you speak out, you get in trouble, legal or no.
> Laws don't prevent things from happening, they simply give society the
> moral authority to say "We Warned You, Now Off With His Head" or some such.

They moderate and mediate those actions and in fact do set a limit on what
can occur at the social level. I'll say it again, government isn't for
regulating individual interactions at the daily level. It's simply too fine
grain. It will control trends and behaviours with a good deal of aplomb (if
it's not abused) - and I'm talking specificaly of a republican democracy
like the US has.

Governments address the general parameters of a society.

> 	When was the last time you _didn't_ kill someone just because it is
> illegal?

Every time. I can think of three times. Two accidents hunting and the third
a crazy with a knife. On a personal level I felt my sense of justification
from committing such an act didn't equate to me spending time in jail.
They're still alive, and I didn't do time. Works for me. In all three times
I could have shot them and walked off, I wouldn't have been found and there
were no connections. All three times were completely random events,
hapinstance. I quit hunting after the second hunting event. I also don't go
for long walks on the other side of the tracks at 2am anymore when I can't
sleep. Some junior high kid tried to rob me.

> 	It's expected, but illegal?

How can it be illegal if there are no bodies to create them, courts to
ejudicate them, supposedly unbiased police to enforce them. Now if we agree
that human nature isn't going to change then there is still the unanswered
(but asked a few dozen times) as to what the exact mechanism is that
prevents abuse. Simply saying that people will find out is not historicaly
reliable, people just don't volunteer for those sorts of things. Their first
reaction is to stay out of it. Even if they find out what do they do about
it? Go to a similar business down the street that operates identicaly?

> 	It prevents government abuse, it prevents systemic abuse of power
> and authority.

Rape is rape, the point is to prevent it. Not just prevent it from your
father.

> 	It also makes it easier to get people to resist abuse & to fight
> back, since the abuse isn't built in, nor do the abusers have any sort of
> "authority" to fall back on.

People are more likely to suffer injustice as long as its sufferable. It's a
rare event to incite a large population to violence.

> 	Which is different from now HOW?

At least now there are limits to how ruthless they may be. You don't see
tanks on your street corner, there aren't troops of men running around
dragging people out of their homes because they're catholic or read 'Catcher
in the Rye' or 'Atlas Shrugged' and shooting them. And people (like us right
now) get to bitch about it with as near complete impunity as is possible in
a real world. Hell through the amendment process we can concievably bypass
the federal government completely. All that is required is the calling of a
convention, which the federal government have no authority over (especialy
since the right to peaceably assemble is protected and it don't get much more
peaceable than a constitutional convention).

> 	Isn't Billy Gates one of your poster boys for being ruthless? Isn't
> he so far head of the rest of us that he could be in court for the rest of
> his life and not spend everything?

What makes Bill Gates reprehensible is not what he did with Microsoft,
though the company as a whole should suffer. They certainly made profit
together, they should share the flip side of the coin.

Why I hold Bill Gates in so low esteem is his moral standing. A perfect
example is hurricane Mitch. The World Bank came up with a tad over $100M for
releif. Bill makes that in a few days. Here is a man with the means to
institute huge social, political, and economic change that at his level is
a pittance and he does nothing. He is scum. He made his bed, let him lie in
it. He didn't help others when they could have used it at little to no
impact to him, why should they extend a helping hand in return?

This is another excellent example of why anarcho-whatevers won't work. The
psychology of the truly wealthy is so self-interested and goal-oriented
instead of principled that they almost become pathological in their lack of
empathy. The claim is that succesful business will be some sort of utopic,
empathetic social force. It won't be, it isn't in human nature.

> 	Greed is not an agenda, it is an emotion, Profit is an agenda.

True, but there are many potential motives that drive profit, greed is the
most base one and as a result drives the lower levels of human activity.

I gotta stop now, I'm sleepy.

If I didn't get around to answering all the questions it's because there are
lots of you and only one of me...ask again in a few days and I'll answer it
then.

Good night.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 15:16:12 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: update.401 (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811120702.BAA27971@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 14:30:13 -0500 (EST)
> From: physnews@aip.org (AIP listserver)
> Subject: update.401

> INFLUENCE OF COSMIC RAYS ON EARTH'S CLIMATE. Do

> SUREFIRE QUANTUM ENTANGLEMENT, the ability to
> interlink two quantum particles with practically 100% certainty, has
> been achieved by a NIST group (Quentin Turchette, 303-497-3328),
> advancing hopes for ultrapowerful quantum computers.  Previously,
> physicists obtained entangled particles as a byproduct of some
> random or probabilistic process, such as the production of two
> correlated photons that occasionally occurs when a single photon
> passes through a special crystal.  Receiving entangled pairs in this
> way is fine for tests of quantum nonlocality (Update 399), but
> entangling a large number of quantum particles--essential for
> building a practical quantum computer--becomes much less likely if
> it is dependent on a probabilistic process.  In their "deterministic
> entanglement" process, the NIST researchers trap a pair of
> beryllium ions in a magnetic field.  Using a predetermined sequence
> of laser pulses, they entangle one ion's internal spin to its external
> motion, and then entangle the motion to the spin of the other atom. 
> The group believes that it will be able to entangle multiple ions with
> this process. (Turchette et al, Physical Review Letters, 26 October
> 1998.)

> THE PETAWATT is the name for what is currently the world's


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 17:28:15 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: Elder Kennedy ordered to tesify to Grand Jury (if you can (fwd) [a couple of other comments]
In-Reply-To: <199811120514.XAA27764@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <199811120908.EAA06616@domains.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



In <199811120514.XAA27764@einstein.ssz.com>, on 11/11/98 
   at 11:14 PM, Jim Choate  said:

>I break the law and you want to take my house?

>Fucking get your check book out. Otherwise it's theft and that's a crime
>in principle and practice. This means that *EVERY* confiscation law on
>the books yesterday, today, or tomorrow are completely illegal if they
>allow confiscation of private property in relation to crime.

>If the LEA's, courts, politicians, etc. really, really, really believe
>that the people of this country want to allow them to confiscate their
>property in relation to criminal activity then they should parent an
>amendment to that effect immediately. I'll tell you now, it ain't got a
>hope in hell. And when the reckoning day comes on this particular issue
>it's going to be a doozie.

The sheeple don't care. The government has waged an effective propaganda
campagne and only BadPeople (tm) get their property confiscated. Just like
only BadPeople (tm) drink and drive, or consume unapproved plants, or
smoke, or think BadThoughts (tm), ...ect.

The sheeple have shown time and time again that they are unworthy of
freedom and democracy that so many better men have fought and died for.
There will not be any popular outcry against this or any other
infringements by the sheeple, they are much more interested in worrying
about cum stains on party dresses (or whatever the latest circus has to
offer).

-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
---------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: x 
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 22:41:33 +0800
To: Cypherpunks 
Subject: Re: Nationalized Public Radio
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19981112060242.00737e6c@shell15.ba.best.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Exceprts from:
"
Text of RFE/RL President Kevin Klose's Statements

Prague, July 4 (RFE/RL) -- The following is a text of introductory remarks
by RFE/RL President Kevin Klose today at Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty:
....
On this Independence Day, 1996, the two-hundredth twentieth celebration of
the United States, we are also celebrating the second anniversary of the
decision to move Radio Free Europe and Radio Liberty to the former federal
parliament building here in Prague. We are deeply honored that Mrs.
Clinton has chosen our headquarters from which to make an historic,
Indpendence Day address. 
....
History has taught that democracy cannot live in an information vacuum.
indeed, a well-informed citizenry is essential for democracy and free-market
economies to flourish. This powerful historic truth guides our radios each
day. Our servces in 23 languages provide accurate, objective news and
information to millions of people across 11 time zones. 

Citizens in newly-emancipated lands can be freed from the past by the power
of information itself to establish civil societies. The stakes are enormous.
Civil societies that guard human freedoms across our broadcast regions can
guarantee a stable, peaceful future for all of Europe and the world. Our
mission to assist democratic change, to combat nationalism and racism, must
not falter. 
....
Here at the radios you will find 350 Czechs and Americans, and men and
women from more than 20 other countries, working in harmony and partnership
to broadcast truthful information for the sake of our homelands and the
futures of our children. 

Thank you, one and all. Thank you, Mrs. Clinton, for joining us to
celebrate our Independence Day. 


                                       (c) 1996 Radio Free Europe / Radio
Liberty, Inc.
                                                  All Rights Reserved. 
"

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------
Disclaimer: This is a review and fair use, thank you very much, or should I
pack my prison garb now?  Since freedom cannot flourish in an information
vacuum this posting is probably illegal.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------


At 06:51 PM 11/11/98 -0500, Frederick Burroughs wrote:
>
>National Public Radio (NPR) today announced the appointment of Kevin
>Klose as the next President and CEO of NPR. His stint at The Washington
>Post included a position as Moscow Bureau Chief. He is currently
>Director of the US International Broadcasting Bureau (IBB).
>
>No need to hide your shortwave under the floorboards anymore, Voice of
>America is now on the FM airwaves. Story at:
>
>http://www.npr.org/inside/press/981111.klose.html
>
>
>




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: mxm@candseek.com
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 03:49:06 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: JOBOP Software Engineer
Message-ID: <199811121859.KAA10445@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Since your address was listed on a software engineering 
oriented site, I was hoping you could help me out. 

I am currently looking for individuals with a strong background 
in C++ development on a Windows NT platform.

I represent a leader in software development for the pharmaceutical,
cosmetic, and food industries specializing in customized 
Manufacturing Execution Systems. For this exciting, growth 
opportunity, I am looking for an individual to play a key role in 
gathering requirements from clients and relaying that information 
to an internal development team. In addition to acting as a 
liaison, this individual will also participate in the development 
of the system.

Position can work from Northern Virginia or Central Connecticut 
and we will assist in relocation expenses.

An ideal candidate will have at least 3 years of experience conducting 
C++ development on an NT platform. Communication skills are 
also important due to the interaction with both internal and 
external clients. Prior project management experience is a plus.

Salary to $90,000 with a generous benefits package.

If you know of anyone that might be interested, please forward 
this email or contact me directly.

Thank You,

Megan McCullough

Diedre Moire Corporation
510 Horizon Center
Robbinsville, NJ 08691
(609) 584-9000ext275
(609) 584-9575 (fax)
mxm@candseek.com







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Burnes - Denver 
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 03:04:57 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: "social responsibility" was (dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect) (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199811120230.UAA27385@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> 
> > Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 19:27:21 -0700 (MST)
> > From: Jim Burnes 
> > Subject: Re: "social responsibility" was (dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect) (fwd)
> 
> > > Actually this is the central fallacy of those that haven't bothered to
> > > actually read the federalist papers, the anti-federalist papers or the
> > > constitution, much less say how it should be amended. 
> 
> That's an easy way to brush aside having to prove your point. Especialy
> after having drawn a completely illogical and incorrect conclusion like
> this.
> 

perhaps.  it just seems so unbelievable that someone who had read all
these would not understand that the US was founded as a constitutional
republic with limited *powers*, a bill of *rights* that points out the
rights that people already had and should protect.

> > > If a constitutional amendment had to have been passed it would have been
> > > to give the federal government unlimited power to do what they believe is
> > > in the interests of our general welfare.
> 
> This sentence makes no sense, mind rewording it so I know specificaly what
> it is your talking about. No amendment has to be passed.
>

It makes absolute sense.  The constitution enumerates the specific powers
of the federal government.  Please go get a copy and read it. You would
have to create an amendment to give the federal government unlimited
powers.  For example, if the constitution had been written otherwise
prohibition would never have needed an amendment.  Legislators would
just have said it was for the "general welfare".  Having lived in the
early 1900's and educated in the previous century they were still under
the delusion that they lived in a republic.
 
> >   Madison explicitly addressed
> > > the issue of unlimited federal power emanating from the welfare clause.
> 
> Would you mind explaining where providing for the *general* welfare equates
> to unlimited powers?

I can't explain it to you because I don't believe it.  I can tell you
that that specific clause is what exploded the size and scope of federal
power.  It was specifically pointed to by the 1937 supreme court re the
social (in)security decision.  If you would like chapter and verse I can 
probably track it down.  The supremes in 1937 used it and you used
it in your email when you said that the general welfare clause was the
the reason we had some sort of social contract.

I can tell you that if you read the general welfare clause as meaning
the feds have the power to do whatever the legislators and the executive
believe is in our own best interests -- that opens them up to virtually
unlimited powers.  I'm sure Hitler, Mao and Stalin believed they were
doing what was in the interests of the "general welfare" also.  91 million
dead later you have your answer. Oops..I forgot about the Khmer Rouge..
make that 92 million.  The problem with that kind of "general welfare"
is that it is fundamentally incompatible with individual rights.

> No government has unlimited powers and providing for
> the general welfare can't honestly be extrapolated to that conclusion.

Tell that to Hitler, Mao and Stalin.  Tell that to the Japanese 
Americans that were interned in prison camps.  Have we arrived at
unlimited power yet, Jim?  How about burning children alive in their
own church without those responsible being punished?  Have we arrived
at unlimited power yet, Jim?

> Within the context of the Constitution general welfare is in reference to
> building a framework for the expression of life, liberty, and the pursuit of
> happiness.
> 

As much as I love Jefferson's prose, that is a part of the declaration
of independence and not the constitution.  The DOI is a document of 
intent, the constitution is a document of law.  The general welfare
clause is almost meaningless.  Like the DOI it specifies intent, but not a
specific delegation of power.  The delegation of powers, the seperation 
of those powers and reservation of individual human rights are what is 
the motive forces behind the constitution.

If the general welfare clause were a law it would have to be found
invalid for vagueness.

> > > Had the supreme court bothered to read the founder's writings on this
> > > they would have found it in a week or two.  That's assuming their
> > > conclusion was not already decided.
> 
> Found what? Whose conclusions, the founding fathers or the sitting supremes?

Read it again, Jim.  "bothered to read the *founder's writings* on this"

> 
> > > The constitution is a document that enumerates the powers of the federal
> > > government.  It is very specific.
> 
> And prohibits the enumeration of individual liberties by the same
> government. Rather handy little situation that, since it completely blows
> holes in any move to derive totalitarian control (which by the way is not
> democratic).

You seem to be confusing the concepts of "powers" and "rights".  People
have rights, institutions have powers.  The constitution enumerates the
specific *powers* of the federal government.  However agenda motivated
SC judges in 1937 seemed to ignore the 9th and 10th amendment to the 
constitution and extend the meaning of the "general welfare" clause to an 
extra-constitutional extent.  They overrode the limited powers of the
federal government.

 > 
>   As Madison stated, if the general
> > > welfare clause meant what the socialist engineers wished it meant, there
> > > would have been no need to enumerate the specific powers of the federal
> > > government.
> 
> Well to be accurate there was no enumeration of the specific powers in the
> original Constitution, it's why Jefferson (who was in France at the time),
> Madison, and others fought and supported the Bill of Rights. Because of the
> 9th and 10th such moves are inherently doomed to failure.

Excuse me.  There was no enumeration of the powers of the federal
government in the original constitution?  How exactly do you create
a constitution without a mention of the various powers that branches
of government are going to have?

Not to mention that the arguments with respect to a bill of rights was 
not that the original constitution bestowed unlimited powers, but
that since the constitution only bestowed limited powers that there
was no need for a bill of rights.  Jefferson was concerned that with
no BOR people would not have a guidebook to know when the state
was overstepping its mandated powers.

> 
>   In fact, it would have been as if the founding fathers had
> > > said: 
> > > 
> > > "The federal government has unlimited power to do whatever it
> > > feels necessary."
> > > 
> > > "The powers of the federal government are as follows"
> > > 
> > > (1) 
> > > (2)
> > > (3) etc
> > > 
> > > Which would be ridiculous on its face.
> 
> This entire section is ridiculous. To say on one hand the powers are
> unlimited and then to proceed to list them weakens the argument, this was
> also the reason for the 10th. It prevents such extrapolations as this.
>

I'm sorry it was so unclear to you.  Let me reiterate.  The 1937 Supreme
Court stated that the general welfare clause was a grant of unlimited 
federal powers to impose "general welfare".  You let me know what
"general welfare" would limit them to.  I was pointing out, as Madison
stated, that to read the constitution this way would be to read it
as if the constitution had just granted the federal government unlimited 
powers and then proceeded to enumerate the specific powers.  As I
pointed out and as appears above "this would be ridiculous on its
face".  You simply restated that and then proceeded to argue with
me.

> > > The reality of the situation is that Roosevelt kept trying to stack the
> > > Supreme Court.
> 
> Wow, I didn't realize Roosevelt was even alive to participate in the
> original Constitutional debates.
>

Since this was a dicussion of the nails in the coffin of the Republic
and since that covers about 150 years it is necessary to cover that
time span.
 
> I'm going to stop here since we are obviously off on one of your pet peeves
> that isn't related to the discussion at hand. To jump 150 years in one fell
> swoop is pretty extraordinary. The reality is, as Jefferson himself said,
> that the laws of one generation aren't the laws of another.

Yes, the destruction of the constitution is a pet peeve of mine as it is
for many people on the list.   The reason I even brought it up is that 
you seemed to be misinformed on the extent of the powers of the federal 
government granted by the constitution.  The whole "social contract" 
theory is bunk.

The reality is that the laws of the previous generations certainly are the
laws of succeeding generations.  The entire body of English Common Law is
based on this concept.  The constitution is amendable, that is what
Jefferson meant.  By all means amend it if you are able, but don't pretend
under color of law that the constitution means something other than what
it says.

Here is the point of this whole dicussion:

(1) The constitution chains down the federal government in a prison of
specific limited powers.

(2) The general welfare clause is not an escape clause from that prison.

(3) The general welfare clause is not a justification for transfer 
payments or other systems of theft.

(4)The dismantling of the republic began with the civil war, was
accelerated by the formation of the Federal Reserve and new taxation
systems and eventually finalized by Roosevelt's stacking of the supreme court
when Social (in)Security was challenged in 1937.  The subsequent reading by
the Supreme that the "general welfare" clause was a delegation of 
unlimited federal powers essentially destroyed the notion of limited
federal power and began the vast bureaucratic machine that we know
and love today.

jim

"The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie
the second down with the chains of the constitution so the second will not
become the legalized version of the first." -- Thos. Jefferson

". . . we are fast approaching the stage
   of the ultimate inversion: the stage
   where the government is free to do
   anything it pleases, while the citizens
   may act only by permission; which is
   the stage of the darkest periods of
   human history, the stage of rule by
   brute force."
   - Ayn Rand , The Nature of Government

"In questions of power, then, let no more be said of confidence in man, 
but bind him down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution."
  --Thomas Jefferson

"A wise and frugal government, which shall restrain men from injuring one 
another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits 
of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor
the bread it has earned."
  --Thomas Jefferson 

"No man can take another's property from him without his consent. This 
is the law of nature; and a violation of it is the same thing, whether it
be done by one man who is called a king, or by five hundred of another
denomination..."
  --Samuel Adams 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 03:59:41 +0800
To: cypherpunks-announce@toad.com
Subject: ANNOUNCE: SATURDAY Bay Area Cypherpunks Meeting - Stanford University
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981112110802.00bb2470@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



The November Cypherpunks Meeting will be Saturday 11/14 from 1-5pm
at Stanford, at the tables outside Tresidder Union, near the bookstore.
The tables are on the west side, which is the inside of the U-shape.  
Coffee and food are available in the building. 
If the weather is uncooperative, we will also be inside the building.

Lucky Green will be talking about his latest work.

Bagels and Bagel Parephrenalia will be provided.

Directions to Stanford Tresidder Hall
	Stanford is between El Camino Real and Junipero Serra Blvd,
	which are between 101 and 280.  The Tresidder Parking Lot
	is on Mayfield Ave, off Campus Drive East.

http://www.stanford.edu/home/map/search_map.html?keyword=&ACADEMIC=Tresidder+Union
http://www.stanford.edu/home/map/stanford_zoom_map.html?234,312

The upside-down map of Stanford&Vicinity is at
http://www.stanford.edu/home/visitors/vicinity.html

				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: palmdeveloper@palmdevcon.com
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 04:39:22 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Enter Symbol's Hacker Contest at the Palm Computing Platform Developer Conference!!
Message-ID: <199811122006.MAA11024@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Symbol announces the first annual Symbol SPT 100 Developer Contest!

You could win a Toshiba Tecra 780 DVD 266 MHz Pentium II Notebook by developing the Best SPT 100 
Application.  Other cool prizes will also be awarded.  Everyone who participates will receive a t-shirt.  

You must be a registered attendee of the Palm Computing Platform Developer Content to participate.  
Winners will be announced at the Conference,  December 1-4.  For more details on the contest, and to 
register for the conference, point your browser to http://www.palmdevcon.com.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Fisher Mark 
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 02:27:37 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: RE: DCSB: Mary Ellen Zurko; Jonah, IBM, Open Source, and Digital Commerce
Message-ID: <2C396693FBDED111AEF60000F84104A721C069@indyexch_fddi.indy.tce.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>> Mary Ellen Zurko is Security Architect at Iris, the folks who brought you
>> Lotus Notes.

>I suggest she be hung by her toes until she repents for that
>abomination.

IIRC, back in the www-security mailing list days, she wasn't at Iris at all
-- so she wasn't there when the original architecture was laid in place.

MLF "former Notes admin"
==========================================================
Mark Leighton Fisher          Thomson Consumer Electronics
fisherm@indy.tce.com          Indianapolis, IN
"Their walls are built of cannon balls, their motto is
'Don't Tread on Me'"






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 09:27:36 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 6.28: Wiretapping Internet Phone Lines
Message-ID: <199811130027.QAA17242@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: "Ama-gi ISPI" 
Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 6.28: Wiretapping Internet Phone Lines
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 00:13:40 -0800
To: 

ISPI Clips 6.28: Wiretapping Internet Phone Lines
News & Info from the Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI)
Wednesday November 11, 1998
ISPI4Privacy@ama-gi.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This From: WIRED News, November 10, 1998
http://www.wired.com

Wiretapping Internet Phone Lines
http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/16146.html

by
Declan McCullagh

A federal wiretapping law designed to let police snoop on telephone calls
could have profound implications for companies that offer Internet phone
service. Then again, it might not affect them at all.

The 1994 Digital Telephony law, which requires telecommunications companies
to wire surveillance technology into their networks, could force Internet
telephony firms to configure their systems to be easily wiretapped by law
enforcement agencies. A Federal Communications Commission official, who
declined to be identified, said the FCC is trying to decide how the law
should apply to IP telephony and what types of Internet phone calls should
be covered.

In a report
http://www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Common_Carrier/Notices/1998/fcc98282.txt ]
released Thursday, the FCC said the law applies to "packet-switching
technology" that is "used to provide telecommunications services."

"It's a major issue that has to be sorted out," said James Dempsey, senior
staff counsel for the Center for Democracy and Technology. "What side of
the line does Internet telephony fall on? [Companies] should definitely
wake up and pay attention."

The wiretapping law, also known as the Communications Assistance for Law
Enforcement Act, or CALEA, gave the FCC the authority to set standards and
timetables. The agency said in September that companies must comply with
CALEA by 30 June 2000.

The FCC has tentatively ruled that IP telephony using computers is an
"information service" and, therefore, not covered by CALEA.

But the agency has also said that phone-to-phone IP telephony falls into
the category of
[ http://www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Common_Carrier/Reports/fcc98067.txt ]telecommu
nications services. That category includes firms like IDT and Qwest, which
allow long-distance customers to phone a local gateway and forward those
calls over the Internet to a gateway at the other end.

"I think, fundamentally, this is one of the sleeper issues that is going to
be affecting the Internet telephony industry into the year 2000 and
beyond," said Jeff Pulver, co-founder of the VON Coalition
http://www.von.org/ ].

"We all need to be aware of what the legal issues are," Pulver said. "I'm
all for what I call 'intelligent regulation.' If we need to comply, then
damn it, we should comply. Ignorance is no excuse."

"Internet telephony will eventually be included in CALEA," said Alyson
Ziegler, director of legislative affairs for the United States Telephone
Association [ http://www.usta.org/ ] "It's a matter of time."

CALEA's backers say the law was designed to allow authorities to monitor
conversations surreptitiously on digital phone lines just as they are now
able to tap into analog phone lines. But privacy advocates oppose the
measure, arguing that it expands the government's surveillance power.

"This is something we've been warning about for years, that the convergence
between these technologies will make the distinctions originally
contemplated in CALEA ultimately moot," said David Banisar, a lawyer at the
Electronic Privacy Information Center. "CALEA will be applied to the Net
regardless of what the intent of the law actually was."

Even before CALEA became law, indications surfaced that law enforcement
would like it to include the Internet. When asked about that possibility
during a hearing in August 1994, FBI Director Louis Freeh replied, "It's
certainly a possibility -- if, God forbid, someone blows up the World Trade
Tower using a PC to PC network."

Making an already prickly issue even thornier is the fact that some IP
telephony companies use encryption to scramble conversations. NetSpeak, for
example, uses RSA encryption [ http://www.netspeak.com/ ].

If two IP phone customers are using public key cryptography to chat in a
way that even the IP telephony company can't decode, law enforcement agents
are out of luck -- one reason why the FBI has lobbied to ban the
manufacture and distribution of encryption devices without key escrow
backdoors.

Not all companies are complaining about CALEA.

Aplio [ http://www.aplio.com/ ] CEO Olivier Zitoun believes his company's
products fall into the FCC's definition of computer-to-computer IP
telephony. Aplio sells boxes that can be plugged into normal touch-tone
phones and used to call an Internet provider, which routes calls over the
Net.

"We are very different than other phone-to-phone devices or solutions,"
Zitoun said. "In a way, the discussion of IP-telephony regulation doesn't
really apply to us."

Copyright (c) 1994-98 Wired Digital Inc.

--------------------------------NOTICE:------------------------------
ISPI Clips are news & opinion articles on privacy issues from
all points of view; they are clipped from local, national and international
newspapers, journals and magazines, etc. Inclusion as an ISPI Clip
does not necessarily reflect an endorsement of the content or opinion
by ISPI. In compliance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed free without profit or payment for non-profit research
and educational purposes only.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

ISPI Clips is a FREE e-mail service from the "Institute for the Study
of Privacy Issues" (ISPI). To receive "ISPI Clips" on a regular bases
(up to 3 - 8 clips per day) send the following message  "Please
enter [Your Name] into the ISPI Clips list: [Your e-mail address]" to:
ISPIClips@ama-gi.com  .

The Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) is a small
contributor-funded organization based in Victoria, British Columbia
(Canada). ISPI operates on a not-for-profit basis, accepts no
government funding and takes a global perspective.

ISPI's mandate is to conduct & promote interdisciplinary research
into electronic, personal and  financial privacy with a view toward
helping ordinary people understand the degree of privacy they have
with respect to government, industry and each other and to likewise
inform them about techniques to enhance their privacy.

But, none of this can be accomplished without your kind and
generous financial support. If you are concerned about the erosion
of your privacy in general, won't you please help us continue this
important work by becoming an "ISPI Supporter" or by taking out
an institute Membership?

We gratefully accept all contributions:

  Less than $60    ISPI Supporter
          $60 - $99    Primary ISPI Membership (1 year)
      $100 - $300    Senior ISPI Membership (2 years)
More than $300    Executive Council Membership (life)

Your ISPI "membership" contribution entitles you to receive "The ISPI
Privacy Reporter" (our bi-monthly 12 page hard-copy newsletter in
multi-contributor format) for the duration of your membership.

For a contribution form with postal instructions please send the following
message "ISPI Contribution Form" to ISPI4Privacy@ama-gi.com .

We maintain a strict privacy policy. Any information you divulge to ISPI
is kept in strict confidence. It will not be sold, lent or given away to
any third party.












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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 09:03:58 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: [FP] Scanner picks out criminals
Message-ID: <199811130027.QAA17253@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: "ScanThisNews" 
Subject: IP: [FP] Scanner picks out criminals
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 19:33:38 -0600
To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com


SCAN THIS NEWS
11/11/98

Some people will argue -- after reading the following article -- that
systems designed to electronically "recognize" a face in a crowd will never
be reliable. They will contend: such systems will never be 100% accurate.
Unfortunately, "accuracy" is a very subjective term, and, if the
administrators of these systems,(i.e. the ones who can forcibly apprehend
the "identified" subjects), deem their system accurate, then the burden of
"proving innocence" suddenly becomes that of the accused. At that moment, it
no longer matters whether the system was or was not "accurate" -- you're
under investigation.

-----Original Message-----
From: Y2kplanner@aol.com [mailto:Y2kplanner@aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 1998 3:09 PM
--------------------------

>From the 11/1/98 Sunday London Times www.sunday-times.co.uk
- you must register at the site and then search by date.

--------------------------

Scanner picks out criminals

TRIALS of a computer system that can recognise criminals and terrorists
begin this week.

 The equipment is to be hidden in an unnamed British airport to see if it
can pick out criminals even if they have grown a beard or are wearing
glasses to hide their identity.

 The system is the first that can produce three-dimensional scans of a face
instantly and then search a database of suspects for a match.

 It has been devised by Cambridge Neurodynamics, which already produces
software that analyses fingerprints and  then searches a database for a
match. Police in South Yorkshire use its software.

 Cambridge Neurodynamics says its facial-recognition project will enable
security officers at Britain's ports and airports to concentrate on people
the computer indicates bear a good likeness to known criminals and
terrorists. The alternative is to rely on trained officers to remember faces
of people on the wanted list.

 George Harpur, a Cambridge Neurodynamics systems consultant working on the
project, says a computer will be  able to store thousands of pictures of
wanted people.

 "It should be like having an extra security officer with the most
incredible memory," he says. "We're not intending to replace immigration
officers but rather give them a tool that can point them towards the people
they are mostly likely to be interested in."

 The system works by taking pictures of a person as he approaches a video
camera. The resulting handful of frames give several two-dimensional
pictures. To add depth to the face, two low-power lasers scan its contours
from either side.

 A computer combines the contour information with the images it has of the
front of the face. It can then build a virtual model of each traveller's
face, which is checked against the database of wanted people.

 "The airport involved in the trial is particularly interested in the
possibility of using the technology to track people who bring in groups of
illegal immigrants," says Harpur. "The computer could be alerted to their
presence and take a 3D scan of their faces when they pass through passport
control. Then the system could track them every time they enter the country
and build up evidence against them."

 The system can also be used to store 3D Photofits of terrorists. Again, it
is most likely to be used to take a 3D scan of suspects when they pass
through its lasers for the first time. The scan would be stored and the
computer would log the suspect's movements.

 Cambridge Neurodynamics says it can build 3D Photofits from ordinary
photographs or video stills but says the system is far more accurate if the
suspects are photographed by the system.

 The team believes 3D scans are necessary because 2D technology can be
fooled. It generally measures the distance between facial features but these
can change with the angle of the head to the camera.

 The new computer system can be fooled only if a suspect has surgery to
change the shape of his face. Criminals who realise they are about to be
scanned and look away or pull a funny face will not trick the computer. It
is geared towards seeking similarities around the eyes, which humans use to
pick out one another and that do not change with expression and age as much
as the rest of the face.

 The airport trial will last six weeks. If the equipment works, the company
will load the software on a powerful workstation computer, rather than a PC,
so searches can be speeded up.

 Cambridge Neurodynamics also plans to approach banks to set up a trial in
which the computer would allow only designated staff into security-sensitive
areas. Eventually, the technology could be used to verify a customer's
identity before he is given money.

++++++++++++++
Nancy Martin
y2kplanner@aol.com

=======================================================================
Don't believe anything you read on the Net unless:
1) you can confirm it with another source, and/or
2) it is consistent with what you already know to be true.
=======================================================================
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 09:11:44 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 6.33: Patent May Threaten E-Privacy
Message-ID: <199811130027.QAA17264@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: "Ama-gi ISPI" 
Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 6.33: Patent May Threaten E-Privacy
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 00:08:59 -0800
To: 

ISPI Clips 6.33: Patent May Threaten E-Privacy
News & Info from the Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI)
Thursday November 12, 1998
ISPI4Privacy@ama-gi.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This From: WIRED news, November 11, 1998
http://www.wired.com

Patent May Threaten E-Privacy
http://www.wired.com/news/print_version/technology/story/16180.html?wnpg=al
l

by
Chris Oakes, chriso@wired.com

The future of a key Web standard that would give consumers control over
their online privacy hangs in the balance after news emerged that a
entrepreneur will likely be awarded a set of patents on the technology.

The technology, the Platform for Privacy Preferences (P3P) is critical to
the Internet industry's current effort to show the US government that it
can look after the interests of consumers. The specification was to be used
in the next versions of America Online, Netscape Communicator, Microsoft
Internet Explorer, and many other software products and Web sites.

"If somebody owns [P3P], they can prevent other people from using it," said
Deirdre Mulligan, staff counsel for the Center for Democracy and
Technology.

"We put all this work into something that works, then who knows if it's
going to get out there."

At the core of the issue is one man, Drummond Reed, CEO of Intermind. Reed
said that the US Patent and Trademark Office is expected to issue his
company a patent on the idea of P3P.

Intermind [ http://www.intermind.com/ ] was, until July, a member of the
standards group that is collectively developing P3P. He resigned when word
spread among the members that he would likely be awarded patents on
technologies affecting a broad category of "automated information exchange
using software objects."

That sounds very much like P3P. The standard is meant to provide a way for
consumers and the Web sites they visit to automatically negotiate what can
and can't be done with any personal data collected by a site. The
technology would reside within both Web browsers and Web sites.

On a document [ http://www.intermind.com/W3CMembers/licensing_summary.htm ]
on the Intermind Web site, Reed said that his company would request a
minimum royalty of US$50,000 per year to a maximum of $2.5 million from
companies implementing P3P, plus 1 percent of all revenues directly
associated with the technology.

Both Microsoft and Netscape declined to comment for this story.

"P3P is the nuclear weapon of privacy," said Matt Markus, chief architect
and cofounder of Privacy Bank, a company developing an automatic
registration service that safeguards a user's privacy.

Privacy Bank shifted its company strategy to lessen its dependence on P3P.
Markus said he expects the patent will be revoked.

"[The patent] is going to hurt young companies who want to help develop the
solution," Markus said. "It is the snake in the grass, a complete surprise,
it would really shoot the morale at my company if I was depending on
[P3P]," he said.

Reed acknowledges that some working group members want "to just crucify
us" -- but he says his company has been up-front from the beginning that it
has held intellectual property rights pertaining to P3P and other Web
standards relating to "push" technology.

"We have been in communication with the [Consortium] and working group
members pretty much from the start," Reed said. "We've been in constant
communication with W3C management and key member companies involved in this
area."

P3P is not yet a final standard, but progress in the World Wide Web
Consortium working group has slowed since news of the pending patent seeped
out in July, according to Steve Lucas, chief information officer for an
Excite division that has been developing P3P-based software.

"There are ways of working around P3P," he said. These include custom-made
variations on the protocol that circumvent elements covered by the patent,
and shifting work toward an older protocol known as the Open Profiling
Standard.

Lucas said companies are going ahead with work on P3P. But they are
simultaneously making contingency plans should the patent have a stifling
effect.
If Drummond's pending patents stand, the thousands of companies doing
business on the Internet could face new laws designed to protect the
interests of consumers. The Federal Trade Commission, which would recommend
such laws, has given the industry until the end of this year to demonstrate
that it can "self-regulate," and P3P is key to that plan.

"Some combination of the [P3P and Open Profiling Standard] technologies may
be a more transparent way to protect consumers privacy," David Medine, an
associate director at the Commission told Wired News earlier this year.

Daniel Weitzner, who oversees the development of P3P at the World Wide Web
Consortium, insists P3P development is still on track, but echoed the same
concerns.

"If anyone succeeds in extracting big licensing fees for P3P
implementations, that would hamper the availability of the technology," he
conceded. "Really the question turns on what happens with that patent."

But working on ways to perform privacy negotiations without a standard
presents a big obstacle to the industry.

"Not having a standard everybody can agree on does create some
interoperability problems," Lucas said.

"This is a collaborative process about trying to develop socially useful
protocols and now we have somebody walking away and saying they own it,"
added working group member Mulligan of the Center for Democracy and
Technology.

Weitzner said the issue now is not who said what when but what to do once
the patents are issued. He declined to comment on the possibility of
mistakes made in the past by W3C management.

"The issue is whether or not the patent is valid, not who told what to whom
or when," Weitzner said. "The concern I hear is about the attack on
openness, not the timing."

That issue -- how a patent might affect a Web standard -- is a new one for
the W3C.

"Our members have not had to face this issue because no one has had to try
to stand in the way of openness in a way that Intermind appears to be
doing...." The question now is "whether or not they're going to be able to
hold up a standard that has a potentially significant social impact."

James Glave contributed to this report.


Copyright (c) 1994-98 Wired Digital Inc.


--------------------------------NOTICE:------------------------------
ISPI Clips are news & opinion articles on privacy issues from
all points of view; they are clipped from local, national and international
newspapers, journals and magazines, etc. Inclusion as an ISPI Clip
does not necessarily reflect an endorsement of the content or opinion
by ISPI. In compliance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed free without profit or payment for non-profit research
and educational purposes only.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

ISPI Clips is a FREE e-mail service from the "Institute for the Study
of Privacy Issues" (ISPI). To receive "ISPI Clips" on a regular bases
(up to 3 - 8 clips per day) send the following message  "Please
enter [Your Name] into the ISPI Clips list: [Your e-mail address]" to:
ISPIClips@ama-gi.com  .

The Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) is a small
contributor-funded organization based in Victoria, British Columbia
(Canada). ISPI operates on a not-for-profit basis, accepts no
government funding and takes a global perspective.

ISPI's mandate is to conduct & promote interdisciplinary research
into electronic, personal and  financial privacy with a view toward
helping ordinary people understand the degree of privacy they have
with respect to government, industry and each other and to likewise
inform them about techniques to enhance their privacy.

But, none of this can be accomplished without your kind and
generous financial support. If you are concerned about the erosion
of your privacy in general, won't you please help us continue this
important work by becoming an "ISPI Supporter" or by taking out
an institute Membership?

We gratefully accept all contributions:

  Less than $60    ISPI Supporter
          $60 - $99    Primary ISPI Membership (1 year)
      $100 - $300    Senior ISPI Membership (2 years)
More than $300    Executive Council Membership (life)

Your ISPI "membership" contribution entitles you to receive "The ISPI
Privacy Reporter" (our bi-monthly 12 page hard-copy newsletter in
multi-contributor format) for the duration of your membership.

For a contribution form with postal instructions please send the following
message "ISPI Contribution Form" to ISPI4Privacy@ama-gi.com .

We maintain a strict privacy policy. Any information you divulge to ISPI
is kept in strict confidence. It will not be sold, lent or given away to
any third party.














****************************************************
To subscribe or unsubscribe, email:
     majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com
with the message:
     (un)subscribe ignition-point email@address

or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email@address
****************************************************
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****************************************************




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 09:00:15 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: World's biggest hard drive
Message-ID: <199811130028.QAA17275@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: World's biggest hard drive
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 23:15:59 -0600
To: believer@telepath.com

   WORLD'S BIGGEST DISK DRIVE

     To mark the centenary of magnetic recording, IBM today unveiled the
largest (25gb) hard drive yet produced for PCs. It's shipping limited
numbers to PC makers for use in machines that will be ready for Christmas.
IBM introduced the first disk drive, back in 1956. It had a capacity of 5mb
and was the size of two large refrigerators. The new 25gb drive comes on
the 100th anniversary of the Telegraphone, a primitive answering machine.
See http://www.ibm.com/News/1998/11/11.phtml  

  From: Alan Farrelly, News Interactive. Australia


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 09:57:02 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Push for hearings on Echelon - Global spy system needs scrutiny, says rights group
Message-ID: <199811130028.QAA17291@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Push for hearings on Echelon - Global spy system needs scrutiny, says rights group
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 09:29:44 -0600
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  WorldNetDaily
http://www.WorldNetDaily.com/bluesky_exnews/19981112_xex_push_hearing.shtml

Push for hearings on Echelon 
Global spy system needs scrutiny, says rights group 
 
By Stephan Archer 
Copyright 1998 WorldNetDaily.com 
 
In an effort to create some accountability between the
country's citizens and the National Security Agency's
top-secret global surveillance system known as
Echelon, the Free Congress Foundation is urging that
congressional hearings be held concerning the NSA's
use of the system. 

Originally, Echelon was designed to spy on the
Communist Bloc during the Cold War. However, since
the end of the Cold War, the NSA has used it for
other questionable purposes that include spying on the
citizens of U.S. allies as well as the citizens of other
countries, commercial spying, and even domestic
spying. 

In essence, Echelon works through a series of
high-tech spy facilities located primarily in five
countries: the United States, Canada, England, New
Zealand, and Australia. These countries, which are
sworn to secrecy about the project in a secret
agreement known as UKUSA, all actively take part in
this encroachment of privacy into the lives of the
people of the world by collecting virtually all fax
transmissions, e-mails, and phone calls. Not even
cellular phone calls escape the grasp of the Echelon
system. 

"Obviously, we need to have these capabilities," said
Wayne Madsen, who worked in the National
COMSEC Assessment Center at the NSA's Fort
Meade, Maryland, facility back in the 1980s and is
currently a senior fellow at the Electronic Privacy
Information Center. 

As an example of our country's need for the system,
Madsen said, "No one can argue about using the
system to counter terrorism. Where people will have a
problem is where Echelon is used for political and
business interests." 

The Echelon system gets most of its data by collecting
all transmissions handled by the Intelsat and Inmarsat
satellites, which are responsible for much of the
electronic communication that takes place between
countries. Earth-bound communication is sucked up
and absorbed by other spy satellites that the NSA has
launched into space. 

"It's a huge vacuum cleaner," said Madsen. 

Once these spy facilities collect the phone calls,
e-mails, and faxes, of virtually everyone on earth, the
Echelon system sorts them through a kind of filter
system known as the Echelon dictionary. This
dictionary looks for "flag" words in all of the
transmitted communication. While it lets a majority of
all collected material pass through its filter, it tags those
that may pose a threat and tracks all subsequent
communication coming from the source of the original
"flagged" message. 

Concerning Echelon's inherent intrusion on people's
privacy, Patrick Poole, the deputy director for the
Center of Technology Policy at the Free Congress
Foundation, said, "While we understand the need for
the intelligence power embodied by Echelon, the
indiscriminate use of Echelon presents major threats to
liberty not only to U.S. citizens but to citizens around
the world." 

And this threat is real. The foundation's report states
that U.S. leaders have, in fact, already abused this
awesome technology. For example, the report states
the following: "In September 1993, President Clinton
asked the CIA to spy on Japanese auto manufacturers
that were designing zero-emission cars and to forward
that information to the Big Three U.S. car
manufacturers: Ford, General Motors and Chrysler." 

"You can assume that all major U.S. corporations are
fed items of interest (via Echelon) from time to time to
give them a leg up on international competitors," said
Madsen. 

Although this may be seen as a strategic corporate
weapon for American businesses, in reality, it's an
example of technology that can get out of hand. For
example, former Canadian spy Mike Frost stated in his
book, "Spyworld," that in 1981, there was an
"accidental" cell phone intercept of the American
ambassador to Canada that resulted in the U.S. getting
outbid by the Canadians in a grain deal with China.
The deal brought in $2.5 billion for the Canadian
Wheat Board. 

With this kind of abuse of Echelon's power, the
question as to whether or not the U.S. government has
been using this power for political purposes can be
easily raised. This question is seemingly answered in
the foundation's report. 

"The discovery of domestic surveillance targeted at
American civilians for reasons of 'unpopular' political
affiliation -- or for no probable cause at all -- in
violation of the First, Fourth and Fifth Amendments of
the Constitution is regularly impeded by very elaborate
and complex legal arguments and privilege claims by
the intelligence agencies and the U.S. government," the
report says. 

When asked if the system has been used by the U.S.
government to spy on its citizens, Madsen told
WorldNetDaily that he was sure it has been. 

"I don't believe that the NSA or the current
Administration would hesitate to use this system on
American citizens for their own agendas," he said. 

Outraged by this flagrant abuse of power illustrated by
our country's elected officials, Poole said, "While the
U.S. is the prime mover behind the Echelon system, it's
shameful that the European Parliament is the body
holding the constitutional debate in regards to Echelon
today." 

A September 1998 report for the European Parliament
by the Omega Foundation said, "Within Europe, all
e-mail, telephone, and fax communications are
routinely intercepted by the United States National
Security Agency. 

According to the Omega Foundation report, it is this
ability of the NSA that brings major concern to the
European Parliament. In an effort to bring the issues
surrounding Echelon to the forefront of American
politics, the Free Congress Foundation plans to send
out a report about Echelon to all of the 500 policy
organizations in the U.S. as well as to select members
of Congress. These select individuals include members
from both the House and Senate intelligence
committees as well as House and Senate Constitution
subcommittees. Copies of the report will also be sent
to the congressional leadership of both parties. 

Although the foundation is hoping to get some action
out of these members of Congress, Poole said that
support at the grassroots level of our nation's political
structure will be a must if this issue isn't to end up
buried by the intelligence committees. 

"For there to be any account and oversight to the
Echelon system, the American people are going to
have to contact their elected representatives in order to
investigate the abuses that we know have occurred in
regards to the Echelon system," Poole said. 

See Free Congress Foundation's report on Echelon. 
 (c) 1998 Western Journalism Center
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 08:54:42 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: WiredNews: Virus Thrives on HTML
Message-ID: <199811130028.QAA17302@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: WiredNews: Virus Thrives on HTML
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 09:46:31 -0600
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  Wired News
http://www.wired.com/news/news/technology/story/16206.html

Virus Thrives on HTML
 by Chris Oakes 

 5:53 p.m.11.Nov.98.PST
 An old computer invader has found a new place
 to thrive. 

 A virus-monitoring group this week posted a
 computer virus -- called "html.internal" -- that is
 the first to replicate itself through hypertext
 markup language, or HTML, the code that
 defines the common Web page. 

 "Looks like the virus crowd has finally discovered
 the Internet," said Richard Smith of Phar Lap
 Software. "HTML pages are extremely mobile....
 They're intended to be given out." 

 Other observers point out the demonstration
 virus requires specific Windows scripting
 software to carry out its task. They maintain that
 the virus, therefore, exposes the vulnerability of
 the secondary software, VisualBasic Script, not
 plain vanilla Web pages. 

 "It draws attention to the power that's available
 to the VBScript programmer," said Jimmy Kuo,
 director of antivirus research at Network
 Associates. 

 A computer virus typically spreads through
 shared files, such as word processing
 documents or email attachments. It most often
 consists of a program or piece of code that runs
 invisibly on any computer it manages to infect.
 Like any virus, it replicates itself. That replication
 can be threatening in itself if the virus is large,
 since it will quickly fill a computer's memory and
 cause a crash. 

 Viruses once depended mainly on floppy disks
 for their travels, but networks have introduced an
 easier path. 

 The HTML virus, created by the Virus Information
 Center and released on Tuesday, was built as a
 demo and does not present a large security risk
 in and of itself. It works through Internet Explorer
 4.0 and relies on the scripting feature, VBScript,
 built into the latest Microsoft PC operating
 system, Windows 98. If security warnings are
 ignored, the virus will load via a Web page and
 infect other Web pages on the host computer. 

 Protections already built into Internet Explorer
 4.0 would warn users if they encountered the
 virus, said a Microsoft spokeswoman. 

 Copyright (c) 1994-98 Wired Digital Inc. All rights reserved.
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 09:03:22 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Clinton Point-Man on 'Y2K' is Low-Balling Magnitude of the Impending Crisis
Message-ID: <199811130028.QAA17313@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Clinton Point-Man on 'Y2K' is Low-Balling Magnitude of the Impending Crisis
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 11:12:41 -0600
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  Center for Security Policy
http://www.security-policy.org/papers/1998/98-C181.html

Publications of the Casey Institute
 of the Center for Security Policy
 No. 98-C 181

 PERSPECTIVE 
 
5 November 1998

Whistling Past the Graveyard: Clinton Point-Man on 'Y2K' is Low-Balling
Magnitude of the Impending Crisis 

(Washington, D.C.): Today's Washington Post features an article about a few
of the problems besetting the U.S. government as it grapples, belatedly,
with the Year 2000 (or Y2K) "bug." In a perfect (if unintended) metaphor
for the trouble on this front now confronting the Clinton Administration --
and, thanks in no small measure to its absence of "leadership" on the
issue, the Nation -- the Post headline reads "Y2K Problem Poses Staffing
Challenges for Agencies." Yet, the caption on an accompanying photograph
quotes John Koskinen, the President's "czar" for the Millennium bug, as
saying: "Y2K staffing 'has not turned out to be a major issue at this
point, but we are continuing to monitor it.'" 

Shorthanded 

Unfortunately, the article proceeds to detail myriad examples that suggest
ways in which personnel problems are seriously interfering with the
government's Y2K remediation program. For example, the Post reports: 

 "In the scramble to fix computers for the Year 2000, federal agencies have
regularly complained that their technology experts were being lured away by
better-paying jobs and that qualified contractors were difficult to find." 

 "Of the 24 large agencies required to file quarterly or monthly Y2K
progress reports, 13 expressed worries about their computer staffing or
staff availability, according to a new General Accounting Office report." 

 "[According to the GAO] four agencies - the departments of Agriculture,
Justice and State and the Patent and Trademark Office - [are] facing
[acute] Year 2000 staff woes: project delays because of high turnover among
contractor staff and losses of skilled information technology employees
through retirements and increased recruitment by private-sector companies." 

A 'Major Issue', Indeed 

Mr. Koskinen's reassurances notwithstanding, the anecdotal evidence of
problems of ensuring compliance of the federal agencies is of great concern
for several reasons: 

 The government has historically had a much more difficult time than the
private sector hiring and retaining qualified workers in a competitive job
market. More often than not, the workers the government does retain have
skill sets deemed unimpressive (read, unemployable) by the private sector. 

 Given the complexity of undertaking a comprehensive assessment of the
extent of the Y2K-associated staffing problems, anecdotal evidence is all
there is to go on in calibrating the magnitude of such problems. 

 It is a well known fact that over 80% of all large high technology
projects are completed behind schedule. That the Clinton/Gore
Administration continues to assert that the job -- arguably, the largest
high technology project ever undertaken with an altogether inflexible
deadline -- will be done on-time defies historical experience, to say
nothing of common sense. 

Panic Prevention? 

The truth of the matter is that, even if the federal government were
experiencing no personnel problems in preparing for the Y2K "bug," the
Clinton Administration would still be dangerously "behind the power curve."
After all, far and away the toughest part of insuring federal agency
compliance with Y2K requirements will be the testing, re-remediation and
retesting phases -- work that has scarcely even begun in most agencies. 

In fact, what seems to be going on here is less crisis management than
panic management. Unfortunately, Czar Koskinen's wishful thinking about the
staffing problem is not an isolated incident. In public speeches, media
interviews and through other vehicles, he has consistently understated the
magnitude of the problem while substantially overstating the government's
preparedness for dealing with it.(1) 

Koskinen has plenty of company in the Clinton Administration, however.
Indeed, even on the one occasion last July, when (after months of refusing
to issue public warnings about the Y2K crisis) President Clinton and Vice
President Gore finally used the "bully pulpit" to raise an alarm about this
impending danger, they failed accurately to describe the severity of the
problem. They also refused to take any responsibility for the significant
contribution their lack of leadership to date has made to the Nation's Y2K
unpreparedness -- and, therefore, to the likely intensity of the coming
crisis.(2)  

The Bottom Line 

An insert next to the aforementioned Washington Post article on Y2K
staffing issues reports the Federal Reserve plans to release some $30-50
billion in additional reserves late in 1999. The reason: to ensure banks
will have sufficient money on hand to satisfy depositors who want to hold
their savings in cash on the 1st of January 2000. As of April of this year,
there was $3.6 trillion on deposit in U.S. banks. Those banks hold only
some $49 billion in cash reserves. Thus, even with the additional funds
available for withdrawal, banks will have at most only $2.70 for every $100
on deposit.  

The Clinton-Gore Administration is sorely mistaken if it believes a
potentially cataclysmic socio-economic crisis will be avoided if it
persists in misleading the American people. The only hope of preventing
such a panic-driven outcome is for the administration to provide steady,
honest leadership -- addressing candidly the unknown and greatly increasing
the priority given by both the private and public sector to accelerating
Y2K remediation and damage limitation efforts.  

 - 30 - 

1. See the Center's Decision Brief entitled At Last, Clinton-Gore
Publicly Address Year 2000 Bug -- But Continue to Lowball
Problem, Duck Responsibility For It (No. 98-C 132, 15 July
1998) and the Casey Institute's Perspective entitled New Theory
For Clinton-Gore Silence on Y2K Emerges As N.P.R., Gingrich
Offer Contrasting Views Of The Danger (No. 98-D 106, 12 June
1998). 

2. See the Center's Decision Brief entitled At Last, Clinton-Gore
Publicly Address Year 2000 Bug -- But Continue to Lowball
Problem, Duck Responsibility For It (No. 98-C 132, 15 July
1998). 

NOTE: The Center's publications are intended to invigorate
and enrich the debate on foreign policy and defense issues. The
views expressed do not necessarily reflect those of all members of
the Center's Board of Advisors.

(c) 1988-1998, Center for Security Policy
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 09:21:11 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: y2k+nukes===???? (drudge)
Message-ID: <199811130049.QAA18857@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




------- Forwarded Message

Subject: MILLENNIUM BUG POSES NUCLEAR WEAPONS RISK /Drudge

MILLENNIUM BUG POSES NUCLEAR WEAPONS RISK 

The British American Security Information Council on Thursday is warning all
world military powers to de-activate their
weapons, to avoid possible "massive and hugely perilous systems failures"
brought on by the so-called Millennium bug. 

The group singles out the United States, bluntly describing the Pentagon's
efforts to meet the fast-approaching deadline
as "a mess" -- with what it calls "severe and recurring problems across the
spectrum." 

The INDEPENDENT newspaper in London on Thursday outlined the council's warning. 

"The biggest YK2 danger is not the ultimate nightmare of nuclear weapons either
launching or exploding because of faulty
computer information. Since it still requires human authorization for a missile
or warhead to be launched, this sort of
catastrophe is unrealistic. Far more likely, however, is the prospect of a
leader, under pressure from hairtrigger
response mechanisms, pressing the nuclear button on the basis of inaccurate
data." 

The council would like to see world powers "separate warheads from their
delivery vehicles" when the clocks flip 2000-- a
move that would dramatically increase the amount of time needed to launch an
attack. 

http://www.drudgereport.com/matt.htm

- - -- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.inannareturns.com
"See God in Every Eye" --Inanna, Goddess of Love
V.S. Ferguson
author, Inanna Returns and Inanna Hyper-Luminal

- - --------------79A25852320ABAABB431D8E6--


- ------- End of Forwarded Message


------- End of Forwarded Message




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Gillogly 
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 09:34:40 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: GOST
Message-ID: <364B8752.6A0E8B33@acm.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Scoops writes:
> I also remember a few weeks ago reports in the press and on the List of a
> porn ring broken up and some agent involved saying that the some porn was
> encrypted in an old KGB program which sounded much like GOST.

I saw this report also, and took it to be a standard journalistic garble.
It seems more likely to me that the package used by the child porn types
was Kremlin, which produces .kgb files.

-- 
	Jim Gillogly
	Trewesday, 23 Blotmath S.R. 1998, 01:09
	12.19.5.12.6, 11 Cimi 19 Zac, Third Lord of Night




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Stewart, William C (Bill), BNSVC" 
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 08:56:44 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: FW: Network Associates rejoins Key Recovery Alliance
Message-ID: <25683280FF49D2119B480000C0AD590058DFF4@mo3980po13.ems.att.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Forwarded via Dave Farber's list:
-----Original Message-----
From: Kathleen Ellis [mailto:ellis@epic.org]
Sent: Thursday, November 12, 1998 12:25 PM
To: cryptography@c2.net
Subject: Network Associates rejoins Key Recovery Alliance


As seen on Slashdot..

http://www.slashdot.org

Posted by blizzard on
Thursday November
12, @09:41AM from the gimme-your-data dept.

Andrew Hagen writes
"Network Associates, formerly McAfee, developer of PGP, has quietly rejoined
the Key Recovery Alliance. Despite withdrawing from the group last December
amid pointed concerns over the continued trustworthiness of PGP, NAI
apparently rejoined the Key Recovery Alliance (KRA) three months later with
their February 1998 acquisition of Trusted Information Systems, a founding
member of the KRA. The KRA's major stated goal is creation of "a global
infrastructure that supports recovery of encrypted information." NAI has
sent me e-mail stating that they might or might not remain in the KRA, that
"PGP products will not be affected," and that they have "no interest in
enabling key escrow for government access." Network Associates is presently
listed on the KRA membership roster."

Kathleen Ellis Admin. Dir., Electronic Privacy Information Center
     Voice Mail:  (202)298-0833	http://www.epic.org
Keep up with the latest encryption news and events:  http://www.crypto.org

PGP 5.0 Key ID 9bf725b4  65FF B997 62B8 C396 A527 2D6A 4901 F701 9BF7 25B4



_____________________________________________________________________
David Farber         
The Alfred Fitler Moore Professor of Telecommunication Systems
University of Pennsylvania 
Home Page: http://www.cis.upenn.edu/~farber     




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 02:30:07 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Censorware
Message-ID: <199811121732.SAA18731@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





So, does the ADL censor Farrakan?  

Will the white supremecists publish their own 
"screen" to keep their brood pure ?

Jewish censorware.  Gotta love the irony.

Time to re-fluoridate my precious bodily fluids.





Thursday November 12 10:32 AM ET 

ADL And Learning Co. Create Hate Filter

BOSTON (Reuters) - The Anti-Defamation League, which has been monitoring
hate groups for 85 years, has teamed up with educational software
maker The Learning Co. to create a filter that screens out hate sites on
the Internet.

Dubbed the ADL HateFilter and available from the ADL's Web site
(www.adl.org), parents can install the screen on home computers and thereby
keep
``bigotry and prejudice out of their homes,'' ADL National Chairman Howard
Berkowitz said.

The ADL HateFilter sits atop the Learning Co.'s Cyber Patrol product, a
filter that is used by both parents and teachers to block children's access to
Internet sites ''containing drug information, sexual text, nudity. Things
that parents may consider inappropriate for children,'' a spokeswoman for
Cambridge, Mass.-based software maker said.

The ADL HateFilter does not just screen hate sites, but also provides a
link to obtain information about the hate groups, the Learning Co.'s Susan
Getgood said.

``We've basically been doing this for 85 years, we just transferred the
information to the Internet,'' explained ADL spokeswoman Myrna Shinbaum.

The sites filtered are those that in the ADL's judgment advocate hatred,
bigotry or even violence toward Jews or other groups on the basis of their
religion, race, ethnicity, sexual orientation or other immutable
characteristics.

The ADL, founded in 1913, is holding its 85th annual National Commission
meeting in Boston. 

http://dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/tc/story.html?s=v/nm/19981112/tc/filter
_1.html






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Soren 
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 08:05:32 +0800
To: Jim Burnes - Denver 
Subject: Re: most of what govts do can be done by business, and done better (Re: How to solve the tax problem w/o anarchy or force)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <364B7672.8B6295A3@workmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Jim Burnes - Denver wrote:
On Wed, 11 Nov 1998, Soren wrote:
> There is a real live example of this kind of transition.  New
Zealand.
>
much interesting info deleted
What kind of constitution and bill of rights does New Zealand have?
Check  this
out.
 
Do I have the right of gun ownership to protect myself or stop
tyrannical takeover?
That's very funny.  The US, the country that allows most gun ownership
(in the 1st world), is the most in need of that right to defend against
both illegal and legal criminals. So much for the value of the 2nd amendment.
To answer your question though, yes you have the right to buy a gun,
just as you have the right to buy a car (a far more lethal instrument in
general). You are held to account for what you do with it however (irrespective
of whether its a gun or car).  If you kill someone, then you are generally
arrested and tried for either murder or manslaughter. Manslaughter is the
usual charge if you shoot someone who was threatening to kill you. It all
depends on how successful they were in the attempt. Several cases of pissed
off people shooting neighbours who were merely harassing them, and getting
acquitted of any charges, exist.  Something like 10 murders a year
and climbing (fueled by the gangsta rap lovers amongst the maori, mostly.
Thank you USA!!). When most violent crime is of the form of being beaten
up in a bar, or surprizing a burglar and getting threatened with a club
or knife, responding with lethal force is considered not to be very sporting.
Hand guns are rare, but there are hand gun clubs.  Seems a lot
like a waste of energy to me, preparing for an event that is very unlikely
to occur in your lifetime.  Most gun owners are hunters, shooting
pig, deer, possums, elk .... Permits are not required. Bow hunting is also
quite popular.
New Zealand is a parliamentary democracy in the english tradition, with
only one house. Recently, MMP (similar to Germany's) system of representation,
was passed by referendum. This means that any candidate and/or party that
gets 5% of a popular vote, gets a seat in the parliament. The more 5%s
you get, the more seats.  Each citizen gets 2 votes.  One for
a candidate, and one for a party.  There are currently 6(ish) major
political parties.  Under MMP, proportional representation means that
the the elected candidates have to form a coalition government. I.e. they
all get together and make/break friendships until a clear winner/majority
is declared (a very public process). If a clear winner cannot be found,
another election is held until something gells. Once that happens, the
majority coalition designates a 'prime' minister and a cabinet of ministers,
to call the shots.  This is very unlike a presidential executive,
in that these ministers are, in effect, hired by the coalition government
and not directly elected to office.  Prime ministers do not have to
get impeached to remove them from office.  If the majority coalition
gets P.O'ed with any minister's track record, he gets fired.  If the
population gets P.O'ed with the winning coalition, the coalitions will
change to form a new government and new cabinet, to suit the mood(swing)
of the populace. This is a very adversarial system for a government to
operate under.  There are virtually no bi(multi-)partisan activities
(the last was the economic revolution in 1986).  Generally, the opposition
is always angling to destabilize the current majority coalition, with lots
of rhetoric flying in the press. Consequently, the majority coalition has
to keep on their toes and please the population.  Sometimes this leads
to some skullduggery and dishonest activities.  The population (and
press) have exactly zero tolerance for crooked politicians.  Typically,
a Member of Parliament who gets out of line, is out of office within the
month, often the week. Ergo, no real need for guns when you have a government
that can be dissolved at any time by either a new majority being formed,
or the population calling for an election.  Unpopular laws are generally
ignored, or become the cause for a new election. This happens on a regular
basis.
I always had a sneaking suspicion that basing the US republic on the
roman model, was not such a good idea.  Look what happened to them. 
(Hail Clinton!, long live the emperor! Only until the present emergency
lasts, honest! Those huns (drug dealers) and vandals (terrorists) have
to be defeated first).
Its hard to compare, how NZ's system works in practise, with the self-aggrandizing
and self-important poll-doll system in the US (bread and circuses). 
Mostly politicians in NZ are the guys who live next door, and who you go
fishing with.  They all have a distaste for overinflated egos. 
This is deeply ingrained in the national psyche, often to a fault (tall
poppy syndrome).  It is a nation of fiercely rugged individualism
(even at its collectivist height in the 1970s).  You are still considered
to be a wuss if you didn't build your own home, or don't fix your own car
or computer (or write your own crypto?), or have your own business, although
this is changing under the onslaught of US cultural imperialism and hamburger
diplomacy. As it's an island nation, 1 in 5 people has a boat, and generally
use it to go fishing.  Again, no permits necessary. A lot of people
also build their own boats, although this is changing ...  I suppose
the closest comparison in the US, would be to think of it as a cross between
Alaska and Hawaii.
Hope that answers your questions.  You should look around the NZ
web sites for more detail, or better yet, take a month or two and go and
check it out.  Christmas is fast approaching, which is the start of
summer and the holiday season, all rolled into one.
 


From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 03:35:45 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: acceptable user policies
Message-ID: <199811121838.TAA24992@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Yeah, let me give you the first rule of acceptable user policies.  Users
shall not spam a maillist multiple times with the same damn request,
because a) their question is a lot less likely to be answered by
annoyed listmembers, and b) said annoyed listmembers will probably
end up mailing the user's ISP and complaining, resulting in
disciplinary action against said abusive user.

Before you start formulating an acceptable user policy, why don't you
go spend some time in news.announce.newusers and learn some
netiquette.


At 03:11 PM 11/11/98 +0000, Duncan Licence wrote:
>hey there,
>
>	I am having to formulate an acceptable user policy for the users. Does 
>anybody know of any online references, or examples of such policies. 
>This would have to include specifications like email use, internet 
>access, games over the LAN - anything that you can get your head around 
>pertaining to such. This of course would have to weigh up between the 
>rights of the users and protection of the network and PCs
>
>
>	Your help would be greatly appreciated
>	Duncan




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Rabid Wombat 
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 12:10:16 +0800
To: mxm@candseek.com
Subject: Re: JOBOP Software Engineer
In-Reply-To: <199811121859.KAA10445@toad.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




What kind of drugs go with the salary? 

(Most of the people on this list 
could use the side benefits.)

On Thu, 12 Nov 1998 mxm@candseek.com wrote:

> Since your address was listed on a software engineering 
> oriented site, I was hoping you could help me out. 
> 
> I am currently looking for individuals with a strong background 
> in C++ development on a Windows NT platform.
> 
> I represent a leader in software development for the pharmaceutical,
> cosmetic, and food industries specializing in customized 
> Manufacturing Execution Systems. For this exciting, growth 
> opportunity, I am looking for an individual to play a key role in 
> gathering requirements from clients and relaying that information 
> to an internal development team. In addition to acting as a 
> liaison, this individual will also participate in the development 
> of the system.
> 
> Position can work from Northern Virginia or Central Connecticut 
> and we will assist in relocation expenses.
> 
> An ideal candidate will have at least 3 years of experience conducting 
> C++ development on an NT platform. Communication skills are 
> also important due to the interaction with both internal and 
> external clients. Prior project management experience is a plus.
> 
> Salary to $90,000 with a generous benefits package.
> 
> If you know of anyone that might be interested, please forward 
> this email or contact me directly.
> 
> Thank You,
> 
> Megan McCullough
> 
> Diedre Moire Corporation
> 510 Horizon Center
> Robbinsville, NJ 08691
> (609) 584-9000ext275
> (609) 584-9575 (fax)
> mxm@candseek.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 12:24:52 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 1:47 AM -0500 11/12/98, Jim Choate wrote:
>Forwarded message:
>> 	There are also certain types of crimes that are so morally
>> reprehensible that to allow them to continue is not possible.
>
>Absolutely, and each country should have it's right to choose it's own
>particular brand of reprehensibility recognized.
>
>> 	Or are you willing to go on record as stating that what Stalin did
>> to the Jews (or Hitler for that matter) was acceptable, since we shouldn't
>> have a say in their laws?
>
>Well, you have to understand I'm a pantheist. I know it's easy to shrug off
>and say "so what" but I can't answer this exactly unless you fundamentaly
>understand literal pantheism. But I'll try.
>
>I believe there is no transcendence. As a result everything is divine
>because that's all there is. To disrespect the uniqueness in anything is a

	That's a fancy way of saying you don't believe in anything. No
distinctions, nothing is moral, nothing is immoral.

>disservice to self. However, concepts of literal sin to my view simply don't
>exist. The killing of a human by a human is not fundamentaly (think of it as
>outside of human society, it's close but not close enough) different than a
>human killing a rabbit, or crushing a rock, or painting a picture. It's an

	So stealing is functionally equivalent to buying, rape is
equivalent to consent, and murder is just part of life.

	Then where the FUCK do you get off telling me that my "system" is
wrong because it will allegedly promote these things, if you aren't even
going to accept that they are wrong?

>activity, in and of itself it is nothing more than a cold, cosmic event
>mediated by complete and utter indifference. The universe does not act with
>anthropocentric motives or mechanations. However, within the concerns of

	Well, no shit sherlock. Lemme guess, youse is one o' dem Colledge
Boi's isnt' you?

>human biology, psychology, and society there is a very real distinction. As
>a matter of fact there are quite a few. Since they are all a construct of
>human existance they deserve some level of respect, the freedom of
>expression in speech and press, not necessarily in action. Because of the
>fundamental uniqueness of anything, to destroy or change it with willful
>intent (I wish I could express this better, all I can say is it isn't what
>normal English means by those two words exactly enough) except in
>self-defence or survival (eg killing an animal for food) is not moraly
>(permissible at the level of individual) or ethicaly (the range of
>permissible acts related to an activity, say a doctor or lawyer)
>supportable.

	So it isn't OK.

>I am willing to go on record stating that what they did from a national
>level should concern no nation that is not directly involved. Nations do not
>have the right to impose their will on other nations, period. Nations may of
>course dissolve and reform of their own free will and whim. From a personal
>level everyone should have run over there in about 1936 and kicked their
>stinking ass as volunteers (the fact that it is not in human nature to
>participate in mass exhibitions like this voluntarily is another reason that
>anarcho-whatevers won't work). From a fundamentaly cosmic perspective what
>they did is completely and utterly irrelevant and of no consequence. At the
>same time I'm horrified that human beings can do that to other people and
>live with themselves. The total lack of empathy I find utterly chilling.
>Poppy Z. Brite in carnate.

	You are one confused puppy. You are saying that it would be wrong
for nations to get involved, because it isn't any of their business, but it
is ok, and in fact proper for PEOPLE to get involved.

	What are nations? People. People acting in agregate. If a the
people have a right, or a responsibility to act, then they have the right
to request that their nation act as their proxy (which after all is what
nations are allegdely for according to your theory of government) in
resolving their problem.


>Let me give you another example, unless the US is attacked directly by Iraq
>we have no business threatening, let alone initiating, violence.

	I disagree. If we find that their country is gassing people, we
have a responsibility to intervene. My problem with our actions is that it
is not done on the principle of preventing the genocide of a people, but on
the principle that we need instability in the Middle East to keep cheap oil
for us.

>But I'll do what I did the last time we got in a scrap with the rag-head,
>whatever I can. To do any less might cost somebody their life through my

	Whatever you can do to what end. to continue to support a state of
affairs that does nothing but lead in a circle? To continue to support the
murder of a people (the kurds) and the threat of the release of Biological
and Chemical toxins in Isreal (which probably diserves to get the shit
kicked out of it a time or two for it's arrogance and it's facist ways, but
NBC warfare is rather rude and nasty).

>Does that help any better? Life is a contradiction in motion.

	Crap. There can be no contradictions. One must find and resolve them.

>> >Do you want Germany having a say in our laws (for example)?
>> 	They do already, it's called international trade.
>Me selling apples to a German doesn't involve their having a say in my law
>making unless I'm an idiot in making the laws I operate under. There are
>treaties, but the assumption is that they are entered into freely and with
>comprehension. If they don't and do well that's their problem.

	Economics drives laws.

>> 	Also, if I were a Catholic in a death camp because Jesse Helms
>> ramed thru legislation blaming the Y2K bug on the Holy C, I'd hope someone
>> would intervine.
>
>Congress can't make laws respecting establishments of religion. Not only
>can't they support any, they can't prohibit any, they can't even
>constitutionaly decide what a religion is. Per the 10th that is left to the
>individual states and their respective representative constitutions.

	Did you duck, or did I just aim right over your head?

>> 	But you claimed it started in the early 1900's in response to
>> deaths and blindness.
>
>The regulation of the manufacture and sales of alcohol started after the
>civil war, late 1800' and early 1900's depending on your geography. It's
>impossible to set a single date since the various laws were'not all initiated
>at the same time. I believe somebody else is the person who equated
>prohibition with regulation. In general the laws were put in place because
>either there was a problem with tainted alcohol (this was a real problem in
>the very early 1900's because of the use of lead pipes and other amalgams
>that don't treat people nicely) or excessive consumption by the youth

	The use of lead pipes was because we didn't know better until then.
Time and education would have solved that problem as well as any law. Most
business (especially smaller local type businesses) don't want their
customers falling down dead, it tends to decrease business.

>The history of alcohol is long and twisted.

	Kinda like your arguments.

>> 	It prevents the press from manipulating the government because
>> there ISN'T ONE, or if there is (in the case of extreme
>> libertarian/minarchist) it is so restricted and powerless it can't do
>> anything execpt try to gather more power.
>
>True, but then the news papers (they are not the same as the press - where
>that commen misconception is from is beyond my keen) would just pander to

	Ever seen a newpaper in production? They are run on things called
"presses", and for many years (1600's, 1700's and 1800's, until the wide
spread adpotion of radio) they were the primary (only) source of news. That
is probably where the name "The Press" comes from, and why the first
amendment attempts to claim freedom for it.

>their extant major supporter, advertisers. How honest do you think that
>would make them? Not very. If given the choice between the truth or a fatter
>check newspapers (and their reporters) have in general chosen the way of the
>greenback.

	While one can point to isolated incidences of that happening, the
most honest accusation one can point at the press is that they tend to
report what is happening in a way that will sell newspapers rather than
slant stories to avoid pissing off potential advertisers. There are simply
too many advertisers to worry about.

	They might kill the occasional story, but in a competitive market,
of the opposition believes that there is a market for the story, it'll get
told.

>Jefferson said he would never write a line in a newspaper, and didn't. He
>thought them vile. He however held the free press (he meant unrestrained
>communication between individuals) in high regard (obviously).

	I'd imagine he held certain types of Newspapers in low regard,
probably the 1700's version of Weekly World News.

	There just wasn't a whole lot else being printed back then.

>> 	Yes, businesses can manipulate the press, and do-gooders can always
>> start their own press and fight back.
>
>Who do they buy the press parts from? The ink and paper? The distribution
>channles? Etc. You might be able to start one up but you won't last long in
>a monotonicly profit driven free-market. If they rake muck too much they
>won't have a rake anymore.

	These days just set up a web site. Other than that, it's fairly
easy technically to start a "press", you just get something you want
printed typeset (or do it yourself) and pay a press to print it.

	That is no excuse.

>> 	Yeah, and there are laws against Drug Dealing which work real well.
>There's probably a lesson in there somewhere...

	Yeah, laws don't work real good.


>> 	I wanna say Karen something or other as one case--Silkwood?
>That was one of the ones I was thinking of.

>> 	Point still holds, you speak out, you get in trouble, legal or no.
>> Laws don't prevent things from happening, they simply give society the
>> moral authority to say "We Warned You, Now Off With His Head" or some such.
>They moderate and mediate those actions and in fact do set a limit on what
>can occur at the social level. I'll say it again, government isn't for
>regulating individual interactions at the daily level. It's simply too fine
>grain. It will control trends and behaviours with a good deal of aplomb (if

	It specificly doesn't do that. For every person that says "I'd try
pot if it were legal", there are 10 who smoke it, and 20 more who've tried
it.

>it's not abused) - and I'm talking specificaly of a republican democracy
>like the US has.

	s/has/had/

>> 	When was the last time you _didn't_ kill someone just because it is
>> illegal?
>Every time. I can think of three times. Two accidents hunting and the third
>a crazy with a knife. On a personal level I felt my sense of justification
>from committing such an act didn't equate to me spending time in jail.
>They're still alive, and I didn't do time. Works for me. In all three times
>I could have shot them and walked off, I wouldn't have been found and there
>were no connections. All three times were completely random events,

	So the law DIDN'T stop you, you already admit you wouldn't have
been caught, and in at least one instance you probably SHOULD have capped
the person, for the good of soceity, yet you didn't.

	Why? Because ingrained in all of us (even Mr. May) is the idea that
it is wrong to kill other humans wantonly. At times our baser instincts
override this conditioning, and there are a few whom it never takes on, and
some people can override it at will, but it's still there.

	It'll still be there when the laws are dust.

>hapinstance. I quit hunting after the second hunting event. I also don't go
>for long walks on the other side of the tracks at 2am anymore when I can't
>sleep. Some junior high kid tried to rob me.

	You should have killed him, it was your civic duty.

>> 	It's expected, but illegal?
>How can it be illegal if there are no bodies to create them, courts to
>ejudicate them, supposedly unbiased police to enforce them. Now if we agree

	Sorry, lost the context, and I can't get it back at this hour.


>> 	It prevents government abuse, it prevents systemic abuse of power
>> and authority.
>
>Rape is rape, the point is to prevent it. Not just prevent it from your
>father.

	But rape is the functional equivelent of painting a flower right?

>> 	It also makes it easier to get people to resist abuse & to fight
>> back, since the abuse isn't built in, nor do the abusers have any sort of
>> "authority" to fall back on.
>People are more likely to suffer injustice as long as its sufferable. It's a
>rare event to incite a large population to violence.

	It wouldn't take a large population, since there is no societal
pressure preventing private retribution.

>> 	Which is different from now HOW?
>
>At least now there are limits to how ruthless they may be. You don't see

	No there isn't.

>tanks on your street corner, there aren't troops of men running around

	Yet.

>dragging people out of their homes because they're catholic or read 'Catcher
>in the Rye' or 'Atlas Shrugged' and shooting them. And people (like us right

	Yet.

>now) get to bitch about it with as near complete impunity as is possible in
>a real world. Hell through the amendment process we can concievably bypass
>the federal government completely. All that is required is the calling of a
>convention, which the federal government have no authority over (especialy
>since the right to peaceably assemble is protected and it don't get much more
>peaceable than a constitutional convention).

	Try it. Organize it and see what happens. If it looked at all like
you had a chance in hell of actually getting one together, you'd be
receiveing photographs of you with a cute little mexican boy in the most
*intersting* positions imaginable.

>> 	Isn't Billy Gates one of your poster boys for being ruthless? Isn't
>> he so far head of the rest of us that he could be in court for the rest of
>> his life and not spend everything?
>What makes Bill Gates reprehensible is not what he did with Microsoft,
>though the company as a whole should suffer. They certainly made profit
>together, they should share the flip side of the coin.
>Why I hold Bill Gates in so low esteem is his moral standing. A perfect

	But in a pantheistic universe, his actions are just as sacred as
yours.

>example is hurricane Mitch. The World Bank came up with a tad over $100M for
>releif. Bill makes that in a few days. Here is a man with the means to
>institute huge social, political, and economic change that at his level is
>a pittance and he does nothing. He is scum. He made his bed, let him lie in

	He (allegedly) donates large amounts of money to Gun Control, and
well, he has created a LOT of jobs, and maybe some of them donate the money.

	Putting a gun to his head an forcing him to be charitable is still
stealing.

>it. He didn't help others when they could have used it at little to no
>impact to him, why should they extend a helping hand in return?

	Because they are better than him? (I don't buy this)

>This is another excellent example of why anarcho-whatevers won't work. The
>psychology of the truly wealthy is so self-interested and goal-oriented

	The wealthy give more to charity every year than most people make.
I used to work for a woman who thought NOTHING of writing a 10,000 check to
certain charities. She wasn't paying ME that much in a year.

>instead of principled that they almost become pathological in their lack of
>empathy. The claim is that succesful business will be some sort of utopic,
>empathetic social force. It won't be, it isn't in human nature.

	Never claimed it would be utopia, in fact I never claimed it would
be better for most people than now, I just claim freer. I believe that to
be a better way.

>I gotta stop now, I'm sleepy.

	Yeah. I know that feeling.

--
"To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a
jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a
gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather naďve, and certainly
unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust"
http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html

Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro@playboy.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 12:24:37 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Rivest Patent
Message-ID: <199811130259.VAA11936@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Ron Rivest received on November 10 "US Patent 5835600: 
Block encryption algorithm with data-dependent rotations:"

   http://jya.com/rivest111098.htm  (22K)







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: wwcd@earthlink.net
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 12:12:22 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Free websites for Automotive industry
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



FREE - FREE - FREE - FREE - FREE - FREE - FREE
One of my favorite four letter words.

If you like FREE, and you could use ADVERTISING - - -
If you are involved in a business related to the automotive industry - - -
We need to talk. We have an consumer automotive resource center - we host websites for cars, trucks, parts, services, insurance, financing and everything to do with the automotive industry. 

If you would like to have a free website, and referrals from customers looking for what you have to offer, give us a try. You really can get something for nothing. With us.  

If you would like to join us, we welcome you. And it will be FREE - and when we have proven ourselves, and we all agree that what we have done has value and will continue to have value to you, we can talk about a fair exchange.

Thanks for the time. Please hit "Reply" and send us your contact information if you are interested.  

Chris 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 21:22:56 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Nov. 15 column - felons with guns
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Resent-Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 03:31:54 -0700
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 00:15:54 -0800 (PST)
X-Sender: vin@dali.lvrj.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
To: vinsends@ezlink.com
From: Vin_Suprynowicz@lvrj.com (Vin Suprynowicz)
Subject: Nov. 15 column - felons with guns
Resent-From: vinsends@ezlink.com
X-Mailing-List:  archive/latest/590
X-Loop: vinsends@ezlink.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vinsends-request@ezlink.com


    FROM MOUNTAIN MEDIA
    FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE DATED NOV. 15, 1998
    THE LIBERTARIAN, By Vin Suprynowicz
    On the selective doling out of 'constitutional rights'

    T.T. writes in, in response to the Nov. 5 column in which I admitted
being a one-issue voter, rejecting any politician who won't trust me with a
gun:

  "Thank you, Vin, for raising the issue which has been bothering me for
quite a while:  when I read through the Bill of Rights, I cannot understand
why a convicted felon WHO HAS SERVED HIS OR HER TIME is, under the present
selective 2nd Amendment rights-lifting, not automatically and permanently
stripped of ALL of his or her rights, and not just the Second, plus voting:

  "Felon = no free speech, freedom to assemble, or, as you say, freedom to
go to the church of choice; no 3rd Amendment protections ... hey, quarter
those soldiers at will in the forever-felon's house! ... no 4th Amendment
protections, or 5th, or 6th (as you point out) nor 7th or 8th.  And of
course, the 9th and 10th are moot, since they're long-gone anyway for
everyone, felon and misdemeanor and non-convicted alike.

  "But if the power-geeks were to do this, why, then it would be too
blatantly obvious what was really happening, wouldn't it?

  "Best wishes, and thanks for keeping the faith so eloquently."

  I responded:

    #    #   #


  Yes. Does a felon, once he has "done his time" and "paid his debt to
society," again become a member of "the people" to whom all the rights in
the Bill of Rights apply, or not?

  If NOT, then indeed any government agency should be able to arrest anyone
who has EVER been convicted of a felony -- even a 90-year-old guy who
tended bar in a speakeasy in 1930 -- hold him without bond and without
letting him confront his accusers, in some foreign jurisdiction, torture a
confession out of him, convict him without a jury trial, and then subject
him to a cruel and unusual execution, all in secret. No problem with the
Bill of Rights -- it DOESN'T APPLY.

  Needless to say, under this evil premise, the government should also be
able to deny such a person the right to attend church, the right to publish
a newspaper or magazine, the right to own property which cannot be seized
on a bureaucrat's whim without compensation, etc.

  On the other hand, if that is NOT the situation which does or should
prevail, then it seems to me any former felon who is no longer on "parole"
has a right to vote and bear arms, along with all his other pre-existing
rights ... which after all are only ACKNOWLEDGED by the Bill of Rights as
having been ordained by the Creator, not actually "granted" therein.

  This business of creating different classes of citizens, with different
degrees of legal "disability," is the basis for virtually ALL the invasions
of our privacy -- up to and including the police numbering system on our
cars -- so frequently justified as "allowing us to check and make sure
you're not an escaping felon."

  (Note what a police state South Africa became, based on the simple notion
that one should have to show one's "racial identity card" to any policeman
who asked, to determine whether one had a right to be on a given street at
a given hour of the day -- and the sad absurdities it created, as visiting
Japanese businessmen were given passports declaring they were "white" so
they wouldn't have to suffer the indignities visited on South Africa's
native east Indian merchants, who carried second-class INTERNAL passports
identifying them as inferior "Asians.")

  There should be no NEED for me to ever "submit to a background check" to
prove I'm "not a felon." Felons should be in prison, or in the graveyard.

  "Parole" is the French word for "promise." If you can't trust a convict
to keep his "promise" not to acquire and carry a gun until his sentence
expires, then don't let him out on "parole." It's not (start ital)I(end
ital) who should have to suffer inconvenience or indignity because the
government wardens can no longer tell the difference between me and all
these convicted thugs they're allowing to wander the streets in plain
clothes.

  Start repealing one law a day until you have enough jail cells to keep
those guilty of violating our REMAINING laws (you might want to to keep
murder, forcible rape, and armed robbery on the books, while tossing out
drug use, "money laundering," and failure to pay gun "transfer taxes") in
stir for their FULL SENTENCES.

  And set the rest of us free.


Vin Suprynowicz is the assistant editorial page editor of the Las Vegas
Review-Journal. Readers may contact him via e-mail at vin@lvrj.com. The web
sites for the Suprynowicz column are at
http://www.infomagic.com/liberty/vinyard.htm, and
http://www.nguworld.com/vindex. The column is syndicated in the United
States and Canada via Mountain Media Syndications, P.O. Box 4422, Las Vegas
Nev. 89127.

***


Vin Suprynowicz,   vin@lvrj.com

The evils of tyranny are rarely seen but by him who resists it. -- John
Hay, 1872

The most difficult struggle of all is the one within ourselves. Let us not
get accustomed and adjusted to these conditions. The one who adjusts ceases
to discriminate between good and evil.  He becomes a slave in body and
soul. Whatever may happen to you, remember always: Don't adjust! Revolt
against the reality! -- Mordechai Anielewicz, Warsaw, 1943

* * *

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 23:01:30 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811131436.IAA32048@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 12:02:52 +0000
> From: "Frank O'Dwyer" 
> Subject: Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the (fwd)

> Under an "anarcho-whatever" people are left to their own devices.

And *that* is the primary failure of the entire theory. It's strongest point
is sufficient to kill it. No, actualy, it's strongest point demands that it
be killed. Very weak argument epistomologicaly, with little more to offer
than didactic charms.

The implication is that individuals are making societal policies with no
checks and balances (failure 1). In effect, the only way an individual will be
restrained is by some sort of natural community action (never mind that
people don't voluntarily act that way, failure 2). There is no clear
mechanism to arbitrate disagreements other than the above mechanism pretty
much eschewing any sort of standard of behaviour which further fosters
non-compliant behaviour (failure 3). There is no clear mechanism that
protects property or civil rights since the very arbitration mechanism
changes (and by implication the standards of ethics/morality it's held to)
on a case by case basis mediated by the whim of chance on the compatibility
of any two individuals personal views (failure 4). The arbitrary use of
violence is at no point addressed (failure 5). One of the primary arguments
for anarcho- based systems is to address corruption and unfair competition.
Yet at no point does it sufficiently address the guidelines as to what those
are let alone limits on their solutions (failure 6).

So what we are left with is a system whereby people mediate their actions
based on the compatibility of their personal philosophies. As I've said
before, anarcho- based systems make the same phsychological mistake that
every system other than a democracy makes; if it works for one person the
answer should be acceptable to another. The very fact that the contrary to
this is one of the reasons behind anarcho- support doesn't seem to impinge
upon the concioussness. Anarchy is contradictory at the axiomatic level.

Another way to see it is: Let people do what they want and they'll naturaly
                          conform to what I want.

There is this same axiomatic problem with Hayek's economics and social
theories.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: lcs Mixmaster Remailer 
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 16:59:59 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: oranges spliced with THC gene
Message-ID: <19981113084010.27182.qmail@nym.alias.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




http://www.sfbg.com/wire/20.html

oranges with spliced-in gene for THC

20-30 seeds already distributed until Janet got her hands in it




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Leif Ericksen 
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 00:06:13 +0800
To: Rabid Wombat 
Subject: Re: JOBOP Software Engineer
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <364C4650.F684BA0E@imho.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Rabid Wombat wrote:
> 
> What kind of drugs go with the salary?
> 
> (Most of the people on this list
> could use the side benefits.)
> 
> On Thu, 12 Nov 1998 mxm@candseek.com wrote:
> 
> > Since your address was listed on a software engineering
> > oriented site, I was hoping you could help me out.
HUMMMM this is the message to the list...
the LOW LOW salary of 90K  
> > Salary to $90,000 with a generous benefits package.
> >
> > If you know of anyone that might be interested, please forward
> > this email or contact me directly.
> >
> > Thank You,
> >
> > Megan McCullough
> >
> > Diedre Moire Corporation


NOW if you read the message that I received from Megan in my personal
email box not the list I can get 10K more for the LOW LOW salary of
100,000$  Check it out!
	Hey megan are you reading this????  Do I have to move or Can I live
where I do and telecommute?  IF I have to move I want 200,000$ US.
	> 
> Since your email address was listed on a related web site page 
> or database, I thought you might help. I am seeking an individual 
> within the following conditions:
> 
> I am currently looking for individuals with a strong background 
> in software engineering particularly with Visual C++. My client 
> is a start up company which was started in 1989 to help clinicians 
> treat more patients in less time, while the information they must 
> consider expands at an alarming. They do this by developing software 
> products that give clinicians access to the information they need to 
> really impact care and productivity. The software engineer will work 
> as a part of a development team to identify and develop new 
> product directions and to modify existing product lines to meet 
> the needs of individual clients. For this exciting, growth opportunity, 
> I am looking for someone that has at least 5 years of software 
> engineering experience using Visual C++. An ideal candidate 
> will also have hands on experience with COM, Activex, XML, 
> and SGML. For the right person, the salary can go up to 
> $100,000 with a generous benefits package. 
> 
> Geographic Location of Position: Falls Church, VA
> 
> If you know anyone that might be interested, please forward 
> this to them or contact:
> 
> Megan McCullough
> Diedre Moire Corporation
> Voice: 609-584-9000ext275
> Fax: 609-584-9575
> Email: 915602@candseek.com 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

> > 510 Horizon Center
> > Robbinsville, NJ 08691
> > (609) 584-9000ext275
> > (609) 584-9575 (fax)
> > mxm@candseek.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 23:35:52 +0800
To: mix@anon.lcs.mit.edu (lcs Mixmaster Remailer)
Subject: Oranges with marijuana genes == HOAX
In-Reply-To: <19981113084010.27182.qmail@nym.alias.net>
Message-ID: <199811131453.IAA02761@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



I think that the original news release was likely a hoax. It even
said something to the effect that "this may be fiction" in the last
paragraph. Too bad no one actually pays attention and reads whole
articles.

``The South to the Future World Wide Wire Service is a weekly feed of
technology and media news commentary and satire published by the San
Francisco Bay Guardian. Quotations attributed to public figures who
are satirized are often true, but sometimes invented. Some fictional
statements may, in fact, be true. Any other use of real names is
accidental and coincidental. Editorial questions may be sent to John
Paczkowski. '

igor

lcs Mixmaster Remailer wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.sfbg.com/wire/20.html
> 
> oranges with spliced-in gene for THC
> 
> 20-30 seeds already distributed until Janet got her hands in it
> 



	- Igor.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 02:31:43 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: IP: ISPI Clips 6.28: Wiretapping Internet Phone Lines
Message-ID: <364C7187.6E24@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



This little phone looks nice with one gotcha: they left out encryption. 
Did they do this just to sell internationally and avoid the privacy
issue altogether?

Considering how the product is constructed, adding encryption would not
be a major step.

Mike

***********************************************************************


Not all companies are complaining about CALEA.

Aplio [ http://www.aplio.com/ ] CEO Olivier Zitoun believes his
company's
products fall into the FCC's definition of computer-to-computer IP
telephony. Aplio sells boxes that can be plugged into normal touch-tone
phones and used to call an Internet provider, which routes calls over
the
Net.

"We are very different than other phone-to-phone devices or solutions,"
Zitoun said. "In a way, the discussion of IP-telephony regulation
doesn't
really apply to us."




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 03:20:20 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Info Age Crime Terror and War
In-Reply-To: <199811131719.MAA28612@smtp0.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 9:09 AM -0800 11/13/98, John Young wrote:
>Senator Kyl has issued a long report, "Crime, Terror &
>War: National Security and Public Safety in the Information
>Age," which recounts his Subcommittee's hearings and
>recommendations on encryption, Y2K, terrorism, info war,
>domestic preparedness, wiretap, and more:
>
>   http://jya.com/ctw.htm  (97K)
>
>It describes a plan to combat threats to critical infrastructure
>and the US homeland which, if implemented, would criminalize
>much held dear to a few of this list's subscribers; other lurkers
>will be overjoyed to read Kyl coming to the rescue of careers
>and budgets of MIB and their suppliers of technological of
>political control.
>
>He wants DoD to get cracking on domestic protection, move over
>piddling LEA. Civil liberties, nonsense. Crypto genie out of the bottle,
>more nonsense. Getting government access to encrypted
>communications, you bet. Through commercial products, yep.

I'll address one section, near the end of the report:

--begin excerpt--

The "genie premise" is that encryption software is free and widely
available (PGP being the most frequently cited example), rendering moot any
attempt to impose controls
over its transfer, manufacture or use. Yet at the same time, manufacturers
and sellers of products with encryption features argue that they are losing
market share to foreign
competition because of export controls. Which raises the question: if users
can simply download encryption software for free, why is there still a
market for American products
with encryption features?

The answer must be that the demand for American products is based on
something more than encryption features alone. If that is true, it implies
the possibility of addressing
the needs of law enforcement without jeopardizing market share. In that
regard, Chairman Kyl offered a model of the domestic market for information
security solutions. The
proponents of domestic controls may have done a disservice in focusing on a
one-size fits all technical solution such as "key recovery." Such a focus
limits the search for
acceptable solutions to the cryptography-without due regard to the reality
that cryptography is just one piece of the information security puzzle.
Chairman Kyl's framework
suggests that discrete applications and user groups must be addressed
individually, providing an opportunity to identify promising technical
solutions for accessibility where
and when it is most useful.

--end excerpt--

This tells us that the focus of our Cypherpunks efforts should continue to
be on "payload" crypto and integration of interesting crypto items into the
text or HTML payloads which these other applications work with.

It looks obvious from the above--and from our years of seeing Jim Clark and
suchlike talk about "meeting the legitimate needs of law enforcement"--that
the Feds will try to get the applications makers to incorporate key
recovery. Ditto for the routers and packet movers.

But all this is mooted by two major approaches:

1. Crypto at the message, or text, or payload level. Whatever Netscape or
Microsoft or Lotus may do at the application level is made moot if people
are using PGP or similar approaches. Furthermore, the constitutional
protections are strong at the message level--jailing a person for not
writing in an approved language is rather clearly a violation of the First
Amendment.

(This is a familiar message, about concentrating on the _contents_ of
communcation systems. Many of us have been making this point for years and
years. But it bears repeating in light of things like "Private Doorbell"
and attempts to build CALEA (Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement,
aka Digital Telephony) compliance into various systems.)

I like the integration of PGP into Eudora, but I would rather have to do
manual cut-and-paste operations than have some CALEA-compliant version of
Eudora implement GAK-friendly crypto. I'm not accusing the Eudora folks of
thinking of doing this, just trying to look ahead a few years to a world
where the major ISPs and Web corporations have acquiesced to CALEA
pressures.

2. Proxies and offshore remailers. Whatever the U.S. gov't. does, hard to
control offshore services. And, again, the crypto needs to be at the
payload level, so that all traces of GAK and whatnot can be easily removed.
(The "::request-remailing-to" in the text field being a beautiful example
of this. Very hard for governments to insist on what can and cannot be
inside text fields!)

And applications like digital money, if they ever get off the ground, will
also benefit from some of the same kinds of thinking. (Ian Goldberg's
demonstrations of his variant of Chaumian digital cash were of this sort,
using conventional tools with the salient digital cash stuff orthogonal to
the basic communications tools. We want this instead of, say, "Netscape
Cash," implemented as part of Navigator and fully compliant with TLA
wishes.)

Anyway, I haven't been able to work up a lot of energy to write stuff here
on the Cyphepunks list, for the usual reasons, but reading this Kyl report
on plans to further stifle civil liberties motivates me to emphasize the
obvious.

--Tim May

Common Y2K line: "I'm not preparing, but I know where _you_ live."
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Duncan Frissell 
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 01:21:30 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: <199811131629.LAA09514@mail1.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 08:36 AM 11/13/98 -0600, Jim Choate wrote:

>So what we are left with is a system whereby people mediate their actions
>based on the compatibility of their personal philosophies. 

Standard interoperation of different protocols.  We do it all the time.

>As I've said
>before, anarcho- based systems make the same phsychological mistake that
>every system other than a democracy makes; if it works for one person the
>answer should be acceptable to another. The very fact that the contrary to
>this is one of the reasons behind anarcho- support doesn't seem to impinge
>upon the concioussness. Anarchy is contradictory at the axiomatic level.
>
>Another way to see it is: Let people do what they want and they'll naturaly
>                          conform to what I want.

Who cares what they do as long as they leave me alone.

>There is this same axiomatic problem with Hayek's economics and social
>theories.

He was not an anarchist.

If voluntary interaction doesn't work as a social system then we're all in
big trouble because persons (you?) who love to command others will have a
hard time doing so as everyone becomes rich, mobile, and technologically
powerful.  If you have figured out a way to push around rich, mobile, and
technologically powerful people you're a smarter man than I am.  I'm sure
the Feds could use your unique insights.

BTW we live in a representative republic not a democracy and the theory was
that it was to be a representative republic of strictly limited powers.
Our representatives have forgotten.  Technology and market institutions are
teaching them different.

DCF  




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: cypherpu 
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 04:57:23 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: SIGH... NOT!! THC tainted oranges
Message-ID: <199811131959.LAA19533@rainbow.thinkthink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




I just spoke by phone with john(author of the article in question)
 at the sfbay guardian
The article was distributed without the satire labeling that was
present at the website... The article is Satire :(

     duped and disappointed :(




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Frank O'Dwyer" 
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 20:32:28 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199811101638.KAA18839@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <364C1FEC.F312A063@brd.ie>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate wrote:
> At least citizens can change the laws under a democracy.
> Under an anarcho-whatever it is strictly lump it or like it unless you're
> willing to fund a bigger gun.

Under an "anarcho-whatever" people are left to their own devices. This
leaves them free to do anything, including institute governments, pass
laws, form unions, inject themselves with battery acid, shoot everyone
wearing glasses, and climb towers to pick off passers-by with a
high-velocity rifle. What people on both extremes seem to miss is that
the world is already, and always has been, an anarchy; the experiment is
ongoing, and so far "all of the above" is the outcome. 

Cheers,
Frank O'Dwyer.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 02:07:09 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Info Age Crime Terror and War
Message-ID: <199811131719.MAA28612@smtp0.atl.mindspring.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Senator Kyl has issued a long report, "Crime, Terror &
War: National Security and Public Safety in the Information
Age," which recounts his Subcommittee's hearings and 
recommendations on encryption, Y2K, terrorism, info war,
domestic preparedness, wiretap, and more:

   http://jya.com/ctw.htm  (97K)

It describes a plan to combat threats to critical infrastructure
and the US homeland which, if implemented, would criminalize
much held dear to a few of this list's subscribers; other lurkers
will be overjoyed to read Kyl coming to the rescue of careers 
and budgets of MIB and their suppliers of technological of
political control. 

He wants DoD to get cracking on domestic protection, move over 
piddling LEA. Civil liberties, nonsense. Crypto genie out of the bottle, 
more nonsense. Getting government access to encrypted 
communications, you bet. Through commercial products, yep.

Thanks to FT for forwarding.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 05:27:15 +0800
To: John Young 
Message-ID: <364C9320.2E73@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



John,

The 1st - encrypted communications are speech.

The 4th - plaintext that has been encrypted cannot be "found."

The 5th - If your password is memorized then the only way to produce it
is as a witness against yourself. 

So much for the layman's view. What is the current legal thinking and,
more importantly, the relevant legal precedents? Aren't they ( LE )
making a bit of a leap when they say that the Constitution defines
access to information not just items? It looks like the only way to
achieve the information access they want is through modification of the
Constitution.

There is often a right-leaning political flavor to the CP list but isn't
it such right-wingers as Rhenquist and Starr who invented the various
forms of immunity that already can be used to subvert the 5th?

Now they are trying to establish the legal equivalence of the physical
and the virtual. I wish Kyle et al well in their fight against legions
of terrorists but I hope that they have an impossible battle ahead of
them when it comes to downgrading the Bill of Rights. Besides, more than
wanting to protect us little lambs from terrorists, I think they
recognize the degree to which technology is changing the world and are
trying to resist the power shifts that are likely. The other reasons
they give are mostly chaff.

Regards,
Mike

John Young wrote:
> 
> Senator Kyl has issued a long report, "Crime, Terror &
> War: National Security and Public Safety in the Information
> Age," which recounts his Subcommittee's hearings and
> recommendations on encryption, Y2K, terrorism, info war,
> domestic preparedness, wiretap, and more:
> 
>    http://jya.com/ctw.htm  (97K)
> 
> It describes a plan to combat threats to critical infrastructure
> and the US homeland which, if implemented, would criminalize
> much held dear to a few of this list's subscribers; other lurkers
> will be overjoyed to read Kyl coming to the rescue of careers
> and budgets of MIB and their suppliers of technologies of
> political control.
> 
> He wants DoD to get cracking on domestic protection, move over
> piddling LEA. Civil liberties, nonsense. Crypto genie out of the bottle,
> more nonsense. Getting government access to encrypted
> communications, you bet. Through commercial products, yep.
>




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 13:12:58 +0800
To: cypherpunks@infonex.com
Subject: NotSoBlackNet: terrorist pays by money order
Message-ID: <88e9a70643e903c58148f5106afd11bd@anonymous>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/15812.html
Do Terrorists Troll the Net?
by Niall McKay

[...] "We fight for our independence," he said during one June
conversation. Harkat-ul-Ansar is on the State Department's list of the
30 most dangerous terrorist organizations in the world.

Establishing Ibrahim's true identity is difficult. The most compelling
evidence that he was acting on behalf of Harkat-ul-Ansar is a US$1,000
money order that he sent to Chameleon in an attempt to buy stolen military
software. [...]

Although he used several anonymous Hotmail accounts to send his
email, Ibrahim always accessed the Net from an Internet service
provider in New Delhi [...]

Savec0re said he also emailed the individual an encrypted file of
information from the Indian atomic research center, including diagrams
of reactors and trajectory calculations, and an analysis of five
Indian nuclear tests. "The next day I got a call from the so-called
FBI agent but he had an amazingly strong Pakistani accent," [...]




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 02:19:27 +0800
To: Digital Bearer Settlement List 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----


After much hemming and hawing about plane and hotel arrangements, the final
confirmation from some conference organizers arrived this past Monday morning.
And, yesterday, the State Department promised me a passport on my doorstep
this coming Tuesday. So, it now looks like I'm going to London on next
Saturday's redeye to speak at the Internet Trading for Global Securities
Markets conference, Tuesday and Wednesday, November 24th and 25th at the
Hilton Olympia.

Because of some interesting economics of cheap hotel room-nights and dear
airfare, I'll be staying at the Hilton Olympia itself, on Kensington High
Street in London, from the morning of Sunday the 22nd to the morning of
Thursday the 26th.

This conference has been in the works for months, but we weren't really sure
everything was going to happen until, as usual, the last possible minute. I
bet a whole bunch of people registered right on the deadline, or something,
and they decided they had enough interest to pull the trigger. Oh, well, after
dodging those kinds of bullets myself getting the FC conferences and this
summer's Philodox Symposium off the ground, I should have expected it from
someone else in the same shoes.


We all have Duncan Goldie-Scott to thank for this trip, of course. For the
past few months, I've been writing a series of articles on digital bearer
transaction settlement for the Financial Times Virtual Finance Report, which
Duncan edits. I started with cash, and then bonds, and then equity. This month
I did derivatives. I've got three more left to do, I figure; one on
micromoney, the other two on the possible macro-, and micro-, economic
inplications of digital bearer settlement, and maybe one more, on possible
deployment strategy, if we get that far.

Since I started these articles, I have gotten quite a few pieces of fan mail
from Duncan's subscribers, and it has been quite fun. It also seems that some
of those folks are going to be at this conference. In addition, after all the
dust settled, Duncan himself was made chairman of the conference, so I expect
he's going to have his hands full when I get there.

As if that wasn't enough, Duncan has also arranged for me to talk privately to
some traders he knows at an investment/merchant bank whose name you would
recognize, and that should be quite interesting.  Duncan says that they've
been reading my articles, and they've got lots of questions to ask.

So, Duncan, thanks so much for all your good efforts evangelizing digital
bearer transaction settlement to your friends in the City. I'm positively
psyched to unleash the word hoarde in the Old World, fire up the patented
Hettinga rant machine on that side of the pond, and all that.

God help you all. :-).


So, if anybody wants to get ahold of me in London for a beer and a schmooze
while I'm there, (especially if you know someone crazy enough to pay my
extortionate personal appearance fee for some of my scarce free time ;-)), the
Hilton Olympia's address is 380 Kensington High Street, London W14 8NL, and
phone number's 0171 603 3333.

You can, of course, email me as well, but, since this is my first trip to
Europe, I expect that internet connections, power, etc., for my trusty
PowerBook 540c will be interesting, if not, um, creative. So, it might be a
good idea to contact Duncan , or at lest cc: him on
your communications with me regarding this trip, or while I'm actually there,
as he's going to be the Official Philodox "Bob-Handler" on this trip. :-).


Here's hoping that I meet some of you in London week after next!

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.5.5

iQEVAwUBNkxutcUCGwxmWcHhAQEqFQf+Nk+po/iJVHlQpVT3es/uokYkYb7T3nbv
NbEyDIEJkT4z5Jsp0omGU36/QFgF7iHAu614ehRAY/lhu7l1/ghrJdFKzQR+3lHU
UijWKYe3tyk15oBPhUI2e0G1K52MNSmDl9EL4GQ3hpbBCSOM4UO+4W1q3RYnucGA
b3p54QXpYeoRefAhSNiEjRc7Vup+EY1i6vkCONekr4+c9UugQ1sbGuRvCzcivXRk
g7o0lktxY1+sXaALEcSgB3sOnG0TJj/HPTpVcsjhw1SFKbxLPKJmytPJ8iR7MEi3
9JMk82Lr6AHTfokAQuLOsEMut8yfsjJ8glg2cxrys+Rbo1qGjHyL+g==
=RRO6
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 02:48:23 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Duncan Frissell's "Blob" rides again...
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


MIME-Version: 1.0
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 08:56:02 -0800
To: rah@shipwright.com
From: Somebody
Subject: Guns on the net..


oooo guns on Ebay... this guy is such a dickhead.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/214304.asp


A simple search of offerings listed on the Web site on Nov. 11 and 12
revealed the following: two cases of hypodermic needles, five sets of
Kevlar body armor, 33 AK-47 semi-automatic rifles, four lots of
“Talon” flesh-shredding ammo, one box of contraband Cuban
cigars, 11 lots of brass knuckles, 148 lots of federally banned switchblade
knives, six UZI submachine guns, one Mas 49/56 sniper rifle, three night
vision rifle scopes, one $3,500 pair of Leopard skin pants, a CDRom
containing the text of The Anarchist’s Cookbook as well as
instructions for how to build cable signal descramblers, how to obtain
Microsoft software for free, and how to get college degrees for free, 27
lots of drug accessories and head-shop paraphernalia, and 1,217 lots of
ivory items including a “bag of elephant ivory dust.”
(Microsoft is a partner in MSNBC.)




--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Eric Cordian 
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 04:24:44 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Rivest Patent
In-Reply-To: <199811130259.VAA11936@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <199811131924.NAA25772@wire.insync.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



JYA writes:

> Ron Rivest received on November 10 "US Patent 5835600: 
> Block encryption algorithm with data-dependent rotations:" 
> http://jya.com/rivest111098.htm (22K) 

So we can't use the rotate instruction with a data-dependent shift 
count in a block encryption algorithm without a license from Ron?

Foo on that.

-- 
Sponsor the DES Analytic Crack Project
http://www.cyberspace.org/~enoch/crakfaq.html




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Jean-Francois Avon" 
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 03:57:46 +0800
To: "Canadian Firearm Digest" 
Subject: national ID cards in the US...
Message-ID: <199811131840.NAA01803@cti06.citenet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Hi!  I received that today.  Maybe it can interest some of you.

========== excerpt ============

I Am Not a Number! Policy Spotlight on National ID Cards
--------------------------------------------------------
http://www.free-market.net/features/spotlight/9811.html

While most of us weren't looking, the U.S. Congress passed two bills
that effectively authorize national ID cards. One was a law to reform
health insurance that included a provision for a "Unique Patient
Identifier." The other was an immigration law that required all U.S.
states to include Social Security numbers on drivers' licenses.
[snip]
========= end of excerpt ============

Ciao

jfa







"Cryptography is like literacy in the Dark Ages. Infinitely potent, for good and ill... yet basically an intellectual construct, an idea, which by its nature will resist efforts to restrict it to bureaucrats and others who deem only themselves worthy of such Privilege."
_ A thinking man's Creed for Crypto/ vbm.



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Jean-Francois Avon" 
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 03:35:12 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks" 
Subject: Fwd: Turtles and Rocks(s)
Message-ID: <199811131844.NAA01899@cti06.citenet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



==================BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE==================
>Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 06:37:41 -0500
>From: Dan MacInnis 

November 12th, 1998 the Toronto Board of Health announces they want to
ban private 
owner ship of snakes, turtles, any and all exotic pets.

Reaction of pet owners was immediate. In this city of just under 3
Million people, most said they would not abide by the law and hide their
beloved pets.

Where is Allan Rock when they need him?  Allan is a resident of Toronto,
surely he will leap to their aid and criminalize the ownership of
turtles?  Surely he knows Aunt Annie well enough to ask her to do it for
him?

[NOTE by the forwarder: the following paragraphs are a parody of bill C-68, 
the new firearms control bill.  jfa.]

But first, let's licence them. Register each, and the owners licenced.
Then, we will know where these dangerous critters are, just in case
later someone decides to hide a few. Where to put the sticker with the
unique number will pose a problem.

Later, we can ban them with impunity. The police can use the full force
of the Criminal Code to enter and search for turtles and spiders at
will.

OK, Saskatchewan, this is your time to line up at the trough for jobs as
Mirimachi did.

We will need a registry office, with 300 employee's, high tech and
trained bilingual people. Quebec does not need it, they are getting the
RCMP training jobs.

Hey, wait, maybe PEI wants it?
===================END FORWARDED MESSAGE===================

Ciao

jfa


Jean-Francois Avon, B.Sc. Physics, Montreal, Canada
  DePompadour, Société d'Importation Ltée
     Limoges fine porcelain and french crystal
  JFA Technologies, R&D physicists & engineers
     Instrumentation & control, LabView programming
PGP keys: http://bs.mit.edu:8001/pks-toplev.html
PGP ID:0xC58ADD0D:529645E8205A8A5E F87CC86FAEFEF891 
PGP ID:0x5B51964D:152ACCBCD4A481B0 254011193237822C
PGP ID:0x6CBA71F7:485888E9FD68415A2945 ACCB366D38486CBA71F7





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Harvey Rook (Exchange)" 
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 06:27:01 +0800
To: "'Eric Cordian'" 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



It's a little bit more complicated than that. RC-6, which also uses data
dependant rotations is patent free.

Harv.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eric Cordian [mailto:emc@wire.insync.net]
> Sent: Friday, November 13, 1998 11:25 AM
> To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
> Subject: Re: Rivest Patent
> 
> 
> JYA writes:
> 
> > Ron Rivest received on November 10 "US Patent 5835600: 
> > Block encryption algorithm with data-dependent rotations:" 
> > http://jya.com/rivest111098.htm (22K) 
> 
> So we can't use the rotate instruction with a data-dependent shift 
> count in a block encryption algorithm without a license from Ron?
> 
> Foo on that.
> 
> -- 
> Sponsor the DES Analytic Crack Project
> http://www.cyberspace.org/~enoch/crakfaq.html
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Jean-Francois Avon" 
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 06:03:41 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks" 
Subject: Rememberance Day 1998.
Message-ID: <199811132050.PAA06347@cti06.citenet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



================= forwarded from CFD V2 #696 ============
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 06:03:49 -0600
From: Dan MacInnis 
Subject: Rememberance Day 1998.

It is past eleven  O'clock here. It is November 11th, 1998.  On this
date every year
my mind always returns to thoughts of  my uncle, whose body, it's
elements long ago
 returned to the earth, the dust undisturbed in a European grave, the
man for whom I was
renamed when the sad news reached my mother and grandfather on that
early spring
morning many years ago. Even as child their wet faces impacted me,
forever.

It drifted today to Ottawa,  where I once stood cold but proud close to
one Paul Hellyer, then Minister of National Defense under the Honorable
Prime Minister  Lester Bowles  Pearson.
It was Rememberance Day, Paul was delivering the obligatory service
beside a Cenotaph,
the soldiers, sailors and airmen stood at ease waiting for the
ceremonies to end,
pretending to listen to his resonant,  educated voice. It was a bitter
cold day,
I knew they would prefer to be at their homes, or in their messes or
just anyplace but on parade that day.

I was proud to be associated with a government, indeed a country even,
with such diversity, such room for individuals to work, play and
overcome the challenges each would experience. It honestly was a Free
Canada, individuals could aspire to whatever their imaginations deemed
them worthy to become.

Later that evening, at a Military function, a member of the RCAF
suggested to me, each of us with the government issued glass in the
right hand, white serviette properly wrapped around it to keep the hand
warm and dry for handshaking, that someday he expected I would be
Minister of National Defense.  Sadly enough, we both believed it.

But today is November 11th, 1998, at about 11:50 AM.  My pride in the
Liberal Party of Canada has been shattered.  My belief that issues like
Conscription, which polarized our founding peoples for two generations,
would never surface, ever again, gone.   My belief that MY PARTY stood
for individual rights, the only force that would stand between the
Elite's and the common person, gone. Forever.  So it a doubly sad day
for me.  My uncle, and my Party. 

Bill C68 has intruded into the lives of so many Canadians, and if left
to stand as is, will undermine everything I stood there that cold Ottawa
morning to pay tribute, and everything my uncle died for in that foreign
field so long ago. He died with no idea the rifle he carried to fight
for our freedoms would become such a divisive symbol a few short years
later.

On this morning I shall not revisit the implications of C68. Rather, I
will ask those struggling to preserve out heritage to continue the
fight.  Do not surrender.

Then, when it becomes our time to let our earthly possessions go, when
our bodies begin
the journey back to the dust from whence they came and our spirits
return to source, 
perhaps the cold white silk of the casket or the sides of the urn
holding our ashes will be a bit warmer knowing we did all we could for
those who follow.

Anything less of us would be shameful.









From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Ernest Hua" 
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 07:08:01 +0800
To: 
Subject: Re: Info Age Crime Terror and War
Message-ID: <01c001be0f54$4642b940$4164a8c0@mve21>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Tim May wrote:
> At 9:09 AM -0800 11/13/98, John Young wrote:
> > Senator Kyl has issued a long report, "Crime, Terror &
> > War: National Security and Public Safety in the Information
> > Age," ...
> >   http://jya.com/ctw.htm  (97K)
>
> I'll address one section, near the end of the report:
> ...

While I wholeheartly believe that the open-minded and interested
public would want to hear these mindless rants responded to with
some rationality and reason, I don't believe, for a moment that
Kyl & gang are serious about debating anything.  (Ok, there is a
TEENY chance he is just confused.)

My money on the claim that these are yet more rhetoric thrown
out to confuse as many people who are easily taken over by sound
bites as possible.  It's not as easy to explain the practical
reasons why crypto restrictions are unenforcible and unreasonable,
but it's easy to trumpet the national security cause and to raise
the spectre of police not being able to protect lil' Johnny and
Mary.

What I was hoping for from the pro-crypto ads was something like
this:

1.  Lil' Suzy writes E-Mail to Lil' Mary to meet at the mall at
    some well-lighted public place.
2.  Child molestor X intercepts E-Mail, but it's weak 40-bit
    encryption, and he breaks it.
3.  Mr. X forges E-Mail from Mary to Suzy changing the meeting
    location to some dark corner A, and forges E-Mail from Suzy
    to Mary changing the meeting locaiton to some dark corner B.
4.  Mr. X's co-conspirators, Mr. Y and Mr Z intercepts Mary and
    Suzy at the respective dark corners ... they scream for help
    ... no one answers at either location ... fade to black ...

This is the sort of stuff that would really counter the stupid
rhetoric from Sen. Kyl.

Ern





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Watts 
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 07:20:13 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: U.S. Attorney Morgenthau on Money Laundering
Message-ID: <19981113224417.16157.rocketmail@send102.yahoomail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



New York Times 

November 9, 1998, Monday  Editorial Desk 	
On the Trail of Global Capital 
By Robert M. Morgenthau
 
What are the five largest financial centers in the world? Many will
name New York, London, Tokyo and Hong Kong. But how many will guess
the fifth? It's the Cayman Islands -- or so, at least, its Government
claims on its Web site.
 
It's certainly the case that huge companies -- including hedge funds
like Long-Term Capital Management -- have made the Caymans their
nominal home. And bank regulators in the United States have confirmed
that bank deposits on the islands now total about $500 billion, twice
the amount of four years ago and more than the amount on deposit in
the New York Federal Reserve District. That is about $14 million for
every man, woman and child in the Caymans. The financial community
there consists of 575 banks and trust companies. More than 20,000
corporations are chartered on the Caymans.
 
What draws so many capitalists to so unlikely a spot? Secrecy, for one
thing. In the United States, capital markets are regulated by
requiring transparency in financial dealings. The Caymans, by
contrast, have no such openness, no tiresome restrictions on the
pursuit of wealth. With respect to regulation, the Caymans have won
the race to the bottom.
 
Take, for example, Long-Term Capital Management, which had to be
bailed out earlier this year. The fund's basic operations are
conducted in Connecticut, but it is chartered in the Cayman Islands.
The fund kept the details of its borrowings and investments secret --
a result not obtainable where there must be concerns for the curiosity
of regulators. The results were disastrous. No one knew the absurd
extent to which Long-Term Capital's confident superstars were
leveraging their assets -- until the bubble burst.
 
The Caymans' financial secrecy laws make it easy to hide suspect
dealings. It is now well known that the Bank of Credit and Commerce
International, whose collapse in 1991 was the biggest banking scandal
in history, took advantage of those laws. Beyond the assistance they
lend to criminals, secrecy laws aid reckless acts by high-rolling
entrepreneurs.
 
But in fact, most of the ''offshore'' Cayman banks are run not from
the islands, but from New York. Amazingly, the Cayman Government Web
site itself boasts that, of the 575 banks and trust companies
''based'' in the islands, a full 106 actually have a physical presence
there! Resort to these institutions is a simple charade. What would
happen if a determined American bank inspector flew to the islands and
demanded to see the books of one of these institutions? He would be
arrested. It's the law.
 
There is yet another explanation for the remarkable blossoming of
financial institutions in the Cayman Islands. The islands have no
income tax, no capital gains tax, no value added tax, no sales tax, no
inheritance tax and no tax treaties. Sophisticated Americans place
billions in Cayman investment vehicles like Long-Term Capital that are
carefully structured to reduce American tax liability. Citizens of
other countries invest billions there so their incomes will be exempt
from American taxes.
 
Commendably, the Treasury Department recently resolved to study ways
to keep sham transactions from having an impact on tax liabilities,
and the Group of Seven industrialized nations has said that hedge
funds should ''possibly'' be subject to disclosure rules. But those
are only tentative steps.
 
More can be done. The Cayman Islands are a British dependency, and
both the governor and the attorney general are appointed by the
British Government. This means Britain can end the laissez-faire
practices of the islands. And since, from a financial perspective, the
islands are an American dependency, Washington can also stop the
offshore shenanigans -- for instance, by imposing more prudent
oversight of lenders doing business with Cayman entities.
 
The Caymans are only part of the problem. The Isle of Jersey, the
British Virgin Islands, Cyprus, Antigua, Liechtenstein, Panama, the
Netherlands Antilles, the Bahamas, Luxembourg and, of course,
Switzerland all offer ''offshore'' sanctuary. Until action is taken to
eliminate these havens, taxpayers and honest players in the financial
markets will be at a very unfair disadvantage. 





_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 06:06:32 +0800
To: cyphrpnk@rainbow.thinkthink.com (cypherpu)
Subject: Re: SIGH... NOT!! THC tainted oranges
In-Reply-To: <199811131959.LAA19533@rainbow.thinkthink.com>
Message-ID: <199811132049.OAA05427@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



I was not duped! In fact, I pointed the hoax out.

Anyway, I feel for you/.

igor

cypherpu wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> I just spoke by phone with john(author of the article in question)
>  at the sfbay guardian
> The article was distributed without the satire labeling that was
> present at the website... The article is Satire :(
> 
>      duped and disappointed :(
> 



	- Igor.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 05:37:58 +0800
To: Digital Bearer Settlement List 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


From: "Simon Fedida" 
To: "Duncan" , "Robert Hettinga" 
Subject: Re: dbts: Hettinga's Road Trip to London...
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 20:24:36 -0000
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3

Robert -

My name is Simon Fedida, a colleague of Duncan's.  Don't forget you are
giving a talk at the London Business School on Monday 23 November...so don't
accept too many
beer invitations on monday!!

Looking forward to meeeting you

Simon


-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Hettinga 
To: Digital Bearer Settlement List ; dcsb@ai.mit.edu
; e$@vmeng.com ; cryptography@c2.net
; cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
; mac-crypto@vmeng.com 
:
:



--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Gillogly 
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 08:20:45 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: RE: Rivest Patent
Message-ID: <364CC4AF.E30659DA@acm.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Eric Cordian [mailto:emc@wire.insync.net] writes:
>> So we can't use the rotate instruction with a data-dependent shift 
>> count in a block encryption algorithm without a license from Ron?

"Harvey Rook (Exchange)"  writes:
> It's a little bit more complicated than that. RC-6, which also uses data
> dependant rotations is patent free.

It's a little bit more complicated than that.  RC6 will be available
without licensing charges to anybody if it's tapped as the official
winner of the AES bakeoff.  If it's not selected, then it's my
understanding that RSADSI (Security Dynamics?) may choose to require
payment for licensing -- I assume based on the RC5 patent.  The current
understanding is that AES candidates sign over their rights only if they
are selected.  Several candidates have been explicitly put into the
public domain in advance of the selection process; RC6 is not one of these.

Please correct me if it's more complicated than .
-- 
	Jim Gillogly
	Trewesday, 23 Blotmath S.R. 1998, 23:38
	12.19.5.12.6, 11 Cimi 19 Zac, Third Lord of Night




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Max Inux 
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 07:39:21 +0800
To: Steve Mynott 
Subject: Re: network associates back in kra
In-Reply-To: <19981113201903.A25115@tightrope.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Fri, 13 Nov 1998, Steve Mynott wrote:
>subject says it all
>
>roll on gpg

Well, They were automagically put back on the list when NAI bought TIS,
this has no baring on PGP at all.  Source code is in stores, and being
scanned as we speak, the PGP developers would not let them initiate any
KRAP stuff with pgp, they value there dignity and integrity.

Max
--   Max Inux   Hey Christy!!! KeyID 0x8907E9E5
Kinky Sex makes the world go round O R Strong crypto makes the world safe
       If crypto is outlawed only outlaws will have crypto
Fingerprint(Photo Also): 259D 59F7 D98C CD73 1ACD 54Ea 6C43 4877 8907 E9E5






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Frank O'Dwyer" 
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 01:11:40 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199811131436.IAA32048@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <364C5F24.E537D505@brd.ie>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate wrote:
> > From: "Frank O'Dwyer" 
> > Under an "anarcho-whatever" people are left to their own devices.

[...]
> The implication is that individuals are making societal policies with no
> checks and balances (failure 1). 

You are missing the point completely -- there is no reason to suppose
that people, left to their own devices, would do anything other than
what people left to their own devices have already done, which is to put
in place all the present systems of law and government. The problem for
both your point of view and that of the "anarcho-whatevers" is that
there is no need to speculate about what an anarchy would look like, we
already have one. It's just that it doesn't resemble what either of you
thinks an anarchy should be. 

[...]

Cheers,
Frank O'Dwyer.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Eric Cordian 
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 07:46:31 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Rivest Patent
In-Reply-To: <2FBF98FC7852CF11912A0000000000010D19AD69@DINO>
Message-ID: <199811132325.RAA26274@wire.insync.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Harvey Rook writes:

> It's a little bit more complicated than that. RC-6, which also uses data
> dependant rotations is patent free. 

Wasn't that a requirement for being an AES submission? 

As you may have guessed, I'm not a fan of permitting software to be
patented.  Particularly things like RSA for which obvious prior art
existed, and the plethora of microprocessor patents which cover things
like doing branch prediction and switching instruction sets in absurdly
obvious and simple ways.  Then you have the resulting silly lawsuits over
the silly patents and other innovation-suppressing and time-wasting
exercises.

The corporate "Push to Patent" is remarkably similar to the academic "Push
to Publish."  90% of the output of either is not worth reading. 

-- 
Sponsor the DES Analytic Crack Project
http://www.cyberspace.org/~enoch/crakfaq.html




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: palmdeveloper@palmdevcon.com
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 11:32:49 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Enter Symbol's Developer Contest at the Palm Computing Platform Developer Conference!!! (revised message)
Message-ID: <199811140313.TAA21615@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Symbol announces the first annual Symbol SPT 1500 Developer Contest!!!!!

You could win a Toshiba Tecra 780 DVD 266 MHz Pentium II Notebook by developing
 the Best SPT 1500 Application

or

You could win a EXP PC Card DVD Traveler Bundle by developing 	the Best Riverbed Scout MTS 
Application or the Best Puma Satellite Forms Application or the Best IDEAM EZTrak Application.

Other cool prizes will also be awarded.  Everyone who participates will receive a t-shirt.

You must be a registered attendee of the Palm Computing Developer Conference to participate.

Winners will be announced at the Conference on December 4.  For more details
on the contest, and to register for the conference, point your browser to http://www.palmdevcon.com.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Steve Mynott 
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 05:32:41 +0800
To: cypherpunks 
Subject: network associates back in kra
Message-ID: <19981113201903.A25115@tightrope.demon.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



subject says it all

roll on gpg

-- 
1024/D9C69DF9 steve mynott steve@tightrope.demon.co.uk http://www.pineal.com/

    if we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research,
would it?  - albert einstein




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Frantz 
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 14:22:25 +0800
To: cypherpu 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I always thought that crabgrass would be a better carrier for THC genes,
and give the DEA maximum fits.  However, given that 5 states have passed
medical pot initiatives, one over the attempts of their legislature to
destroy the previous initiative, perhaps the DEA has enough problems.  :-)


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz       | Macintosh: Didn't do every-| Periwinkle -- Consulting
(408)356-8506     | thing right, but did know  | 16345 Englewood Ave.
frantz@netcom.com | the century would end.     | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Chris 
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 05:26:43 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: How do crack newer Win95 PWL files ?
Message-ID: <364C96E2.786E17F1@gmx.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Does anybody know how the newer Win95 PWL files could be cracked ?
I mean not those files which work with GLIDE
(Header of those files is: 0xB04D464E = ".MFN", their username
starts at position 0x208).

I mean PWL files which have the following header: 0xE3828596
and the information begins at 0x252 !
I've pointed out that these PWL files depend in some way
on a kind of randomness, a counter how often you have changed
your password and may be on the username or the password.

So if anybody knows how this could be done please let me know.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: palmdeveloper@palmdevcon.com
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 14:04:05 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Enter Symbol's Developer Contest at the Palm Computing Platform Developer Conference!!! (revised message)
Message-ID: <199811140539.VAA02299@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Symbol announces the first annual Symbol SPT 1500 Developer Contest!!!!!

You could win a Toshiba Tecra 780 DVD 266 MHz Pentium II Notebook by developing
 the Best SPT 1500 Application

or

You could win a EXP PC Card DVD Traveler Bundle by developing the Best Riverbed Scout MTS 
Application or the Best Puma Satellite Forms Application or the Best IDEAM EZTrak Application.

Other cool prizes will also be awarded.  Everyone who participates will receive a t-shirt.

You must be a registered attendee of the Palm Computing Developer Conference to participate.

Winners will be announced at the Conference on December 4.  For more details
on the contest, and to register for the conference, point your browser to http://www.palmdevcon.com.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 05:59:49 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: reptilian politicians
Message-ID: <199811132049.VAA28800@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




>November 12th, 1998 the Toronto Board of Health announces they > want to
ban private 
>owner ship of snakes, turtles, any and all exotic pets.

>Reaction of pet owners was immediate. In this city of just under 3
>Million people, most said they would not abide by the law and >hide their
beloved pets.

In california, possession of a ferret is illegal.  
But its illegal for people eat california horses.  Or burros, senators,
and other asses.

Those in the Ferret Underground (TM) find that horsemeat
is now cheaper, and the furry ones love it.


--Weasels ripped my flesh










From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: scoops 
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 15:54:56 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: DBS, Privacy, Money Laundering nonsense.
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199811140726.XAA03250@cyberpass.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain






At 12:43 AM 11/14/98 -0500, Robert Hettinga wrote in Response to Black
Unicorn:
>--- begin forwarded text
>
Scoops response:

Mr. Hettinga your comments on the federal abuses on money laundering
prosecutions are right on.  As an attorney I have seen time and time again
the mere *threat* of bringing a money laundering charge enough to make
innocent defendants take pleas.  We all know that the crime of money
laundering was invented to catch mafiosos and other scofflaws.  However the
gradual broadening of the intent of the statute now just catches ordinary
people in the course of either legal or illegal activities that involve a
bank -- or other financial institution.  A bookkeeper is accused of
embezzling $10,000 from his employer and puting the money in his checking
account.  Lets say he has a reasonable defense to his actions.  Was the
money laundering statute intended to cover this crime?  No.  Will a federal
prosecutor (or even state) lay on a money laundering charge?  Of course.
The deal is, if the guy loses, he gets six months on the embezzlement and a
*minimum* of five or seven years on money laundering.  So you tell me?
Does he plead even if he could beat the embezzlement rap?  Of course.

A quick story.  True unfortunately.  A guy sells parts for jet planes.
Expensive.  Usual tab $50,000 to $200,000.  One day he sends an invoice for
$100,000 instead of $10,000.  He's got no reason to immediately notice that
it's'wrong.  He uses the U.S. mail.  That's mail fraud.  He asks his
secretary to see what she can do.  That's conspiracy.  He gets fed up and
calls the buyer who he thinks is a dead beat.  That's wire fraud.  In the
middle of the mess he changes his bank account from Bank of America to
Wells Fargo.  That's money laundering.  The buyer complains to a U.S.
attorney.  A grand jury indicts.  He's looking at something like 40 years.
The man's nearly in a coma that something like this could happen.  It's
Alice in Wonderland.  Naturally, all his money is seized and he can't
afford a private attorney and gets a competent but not overly zealous
federal public defender.  If the man had actually stolen $100,000, with
restitution and if it was his first offense, he get maybe a couple years.
Maybe probation.  But he doesn't even have the money!  Naturally, after a
few months in a federal detention facility (he can't make bail because the
feds have his assets) he starts listening to the other horror stories of
other fish caught in the net.  He sees what happens to them.  You fight and
there's a 98% chance that you lose.  And if you lose you get the maximum.
But if you plead out, we're looking at a slap on the wrist -- say a year or
two.  In his mind he hasn't committed anything even remotely like a crime
and he feels he completely innocent.  But he also knows that he's already
been in jail for about 1/2 of his sentence.  He vows to leave Amerika as
soon as he's out.  He perjures himself.  Admits his guilt under oath.  He
shows remorse for his crime.  The feds drop everything except some offense
that he can get a "5 and 5" -- five months in, five months on house arrest
(ankle bracelet).  He takes a felony hit on his record.  He loses all his
licenses.  He's ordered to pay costs of  $50.  He's already been in 5
months.  He's released the next day after they strap on the bracelet.  His
life is ruined.  His business is dead.  He is bankrupt.  The feds won't
give any of the money back unless he sues them.  He's got no money for an
attorney.  He's done.  This is not fiction.  This happens hundreds of times
a day all over this country.  Oh, did I mention the fine?  Yeah, it's only
$5000.  But here's the latest twist in federal jurisprudence.  The
Assistant U.S. Attorney has been to a new training program to insure
compliance with paying fines and restitution.  In his plea agreement the
new criminal has agreed that in the event he does not pay the fine on
schedule, the feds may retry him on ALL the original charges and he waives
double jeopardy.  Unconstitutional you say.  Sure.  But that's not what the
Supreme Court says.  Amerika.  Love it or leave it.

>> But I simply cannot comprehend the breadth of the agreement
>> on this dbs conference, and depth of conviction, that DBS money
>> should be designed with the **deliberate objective** of being
>> untraceable, for purposes of law enforcement or taxation.
>
>In the case of some DBS advocates you are overstating the matter.  In the
>case of others, vastly understating it.
>
>> I have a lot of respect for you guys' intellect but I think
>> you're wrong on two fundamental points:
>>
>> 1.  Rule of law.  Money laundering is a critical piece in
>> organized crime. The democratic countries have banking laws.
>> Do you think these laws should be followed, or NOT?  (Scurrying
>> of feet as all the DBS readers avoid answering.)
>
>Well let's examine this.  The view that all democratic countries have
>banking laws really begs the question.  "What are the differences between
>said laws."  I can tell you with solid authority, they are many.
>
>I've often repeated this story here and elsewhere.  It's all a matter of
>public record.
>
>Set the way-back-machine to just after Reagan has entered office.  Ole Ron
>began to crack down on tax evasion and in particular offshore havens.
>Taxes would be cut, it was reasoned, but only if loopholes were filled and
>evaders rooted out.  (Those of us old enough to remember might even recall
>nodding at the sense of it).
>
>This policy was particular hard on certain Caribbean nations.  This was the
>time of operation Tradewinds (search for it in the congressional record)
>and other IRS black projects where the IRS actually violated local law to
>spy on foreign banks even going so far as to drug guards, steal the
>briefcases of banking executives, perform unwarranted searches, bribe
>foreign officials and all manner of nonsense to root out tax evaders which
>might also be U.S. citizens.  For a long while there was a project which
>opened and Xeroxed all the incoming mail at JFK which appeared to originate
>from offshore havens.  This wasn't in the 50's mind you, but the 80s.  It
>was acts like these which prompted the Swiss to strengthen their banking
>secrecy during the Second World War.  Just another day in the park in the
>U.S.  Just recently this year Mexico nearly indicted several U.S. law
>officials for breaking Mexican law during the investigation of several
>Mexican banks.  Clearly the practice hasn't abated much in the last 15
>years..   (Note also that today all these methods (except for drugging
>guards maybe) have their legal equivalents in the United States, which is
>in itself a powerful statement).  This continued for some time back when
>Ron was at the helm until the United States finally began to threaten to
>revoke the U.S. charters of certain banks it considered uncooperative.  At
>this point a visitor, unannounced, flew into D.C. and literally dropped by
>the White House with no press coverage or fanfare at all in the late
>evening.  That visitor was Margaret Thatcher and she proceeded to explain
>to Ron over the course of a few hours that if he kept it up many of the
>British Protectorates would literally have their economies crippled.
>
>Literally overnight the matter was dropped and the offshore centers left to
>quietly continue their business.
>
>So much for democratic countries with universal ideas about banking law, or
>the rule of "law and order" in banking regulation.
>
>This is but one example.
>
>So:
>
>Rule of Law - means little in the global-political scheme of things
>Democratic Countries Have Banking Laws - none of which are consistent or
>consistently applied
>
>Money Laundering is a Key Piece of Organized Crime -
>
>This begs a definition of Money Laundering.  "Concealing the proceeds of a
>criminal act" sounds legitimate, but consider that it has been held to
>apply to a store clerk who sold food stamps for cash and deposited the
>proceeds in his personal (non-anonymous) checking account:  Indicted in
>Federal Court for Money Laundering with a maximum possible term of 35
>years.  (This is a prosecutorial tactic to get a guilty plea to the basic
>theft charge).  Consider also that third parties often take it on the chin
>with the wide definition currently applied.  Case in point: Ma and Pa
>travel agency innocently accepts a deposit from notorious attorney of drug
>dealer.  Their entire holding account is seized including the deposits of
>some 700 other potential travelers.  After 7 years of fighting the seizure,
>the money is finally returned, without interest.  (Effectively halfing the
>value of the funds).  The business is ruined, its reputation in tatters.
>Ma and Pa fight it out in bankruptcy, lose their house, most of their
>retirement proceeds, etc.  In the process this case sets the precedent that
>any amount of illicit funds ($1) deposited in any size account ($500
>million) will render the entire account liable to seizure and permit it to
>be held in lieu of forfeiture hearings.  That can go on for 7 years or so.
>Money which is "laundered" has its title literally revert to the U.S.
>Treasury.  This means third parties who innocently accept these funds are
>liable for their return, even if they are passed on in the course of
>business.  Beginning to seem silly?  Money laundering is an invented
>offense.  It's definition in the United States has grown so broad so as to
>be laughable, if not so frightening.  Do not think that these are isolated
>incidents.
>
>So, money laundering in its commonly understood sense might be key to
>organized crime, but what passes for money laundering in the United States
>has little to do with it.
>
>Myth:  Money Laundering laws have a serious impact on organized crime.
>
>This is increasingly nonsense.  The United States spends close to
>$22,000.00 to seize $1.00 of illicit funds.  Money Laundering today is
>extremely sophisticated and enforcement doesn't catch the drug dealers, it
>catches professional money launderers.  Today if you are a drug lord you
>drop $30 million in cash with a professional launderer who cuts you a
>"clean" check for 85% of that figure or so on the spot and takes the risk
>of laundering the funds on his own.
>
>Myth: Money Laundering can be detected accurately and effectively and leads
>to drug and organized crime convictions.
>
>Nonsense.  Assume for sake of argument that you could detect 99% of
>fraudulent transactions with the measures in place (entirely impossible)
>and that your false positive rate was only 1% (also entirely impossible).
>SWIFT alone processes $2 trillion per day.  That's on the order of $600
>trillion per year, just in SWIFT.  (Add another $1.3 billion for CHIPS and
>$989 million for Fedwire daily.  Oh, don't forget the foreign exchange
>markets, oh and NYSE, oh and NASDAQ, oh and international letters of
>credit, oh and...)  The most sinister estimates of the global criminal
>economy (primarily drug money) run around $400 billion per year.  Your
>false positives will identify $6 trillion in naughty funds that are
>actually pure just in SWIFT.  Your correct hits will identify $396 billion
>in naughty funds in all systems worldwide.  In this example you will have
>15 times as many false hits as correct hits ignoring the lionshare of world
>financial systems.  This is under the very best of circumstances.  It's a
>losing game..  It's a game only the mathematically challenged or
>politically motivated will play.  In fact, money laundering is a tack on
>offense that is brought to bear after an arrest on other charges has been
>made.  The number of cases that originate with a money laundering
>investigation is vanishingly small.
>
>The payment system today eats up over 1.5% of the GNP primarily because of
>nonsense regulations like CTR's and other transaction reporting
>requirements which can cost up to $15 per transaction and (as we see above)
>have little if any effect on professional money laundering.  Given these
>numbers the degree of "fraud" in the world financial system is far better
>than in the credit card system, which has pretty much reached equilibrium.
>(Fraud accounts for about 5% of credit card costs.  Customer service
>accounts for about 15%).
>
>> There is a certain logic in the notion of having a legislative
>> process and laws.  Our laws in the U.S. weren't written by
>> angels up in heaven, but they are better than some other places.
>
>In the case of money laundering regulation I should say almost _no_ other
>places.
>
>> If DBS participants advocate that money laundering laws are
>> not to be followed, I'm sorry but YOU GUYS have the burden
>> of logically arguing your position.  So shut up and quit
>> raggin' on *me* about it.
>
>I would just like to see them applied with rationality.  It's fairly clear
>that that's too much to ask of the United States.  Interestingly enough
>it's typically multi-party systems of government that have a balanced
>approach to money laundering.  Perhaps this is because grandstanding with
>things like "the war on drugs" isn't as effective outside of a two party
>system.  Sheds new light on your comment about democracies and banking
>regulations.
>
>Some jurisdictions get along quite well without the nonsense perpetrated in
>the United States.  Like Switzerland.  Switzerland has one of the nicest
>things in a cash economy I have seen.  A freely circulated 1000CHF note.
>It's worth about $750.  (The United States phased out $500 bills long ago
>to deal with laundering).  In Switzerland you can drop a 1000CHF note at a
>restaurant and no one bats an eye.  In the U.S. you cant take a cab home
>from the International Terminal unless you have something smaller than a
>$50.  Somehow Switzerland has manage to survive without looting in the
>streets and rampant crime.  Luxembourg is in a similar situation.
>
>I tried to purchase a car some years ago outside of D.C. with cash.
>Completely legitimate transaction.  No interest nonsense for me to worry
>about.  No waiting for the car while the check clears.  Simple.  Right?
>The dealership called the police, convinced they were striking a blow
>against drug dealers.
>
>It's really gone too far.
>
>> 2.  Practicality.   Without at least a fig leaf of cooperation
>> with banking authorities and other police, DBS will not be
>> permitted.  Transactions denominated in DBS won't be enforceable
>> in courts, and fraud won't be a crime.  Reporting fraud in DBS
>> deal would be like reporting a fraud in purchase of heroin.
>
>Practicality?
>
>Of course any student of political science will understand that where
>government enforcement of contracts fails or falls short, organized crime
>tends to move in.  Reporting fraud in the purchase of heroin to the right
>enforcement cartel tends to be much more effective in rendering results
>than U.S. courts I'd wager.  Clearly, the United States would not benefit
>by forcing DBS underground.  Several jurisdictions will permit DBS and
>enforce it.  (I'm involved in the legislative process for one such law in a
>European jurisdiction now).  If you believe that DBS should be outlawed
>then you must agree that cash should be outlawed.  There is effectively no
>difference but velocity.
>
>> The principal reason for failure of electronic money, other
>> than cards used in physical establishments, is you can't trust
>> the seller to send you the goods.  That's why everybody is
>> using credit cards, and bearing the 2-3% charge for "insurance".
>>
>> You guys seem to think untraceable DBS will be accepted, if
>> only a good enough encryption algorithm can be found????
>
>1% of the GNP.  Instant 1% growth for changing a system of clearing.  Think
>about that for awhile.
>
>> I think your ideas have a fatal, logical weakness.  Without
>> any practical means to verify who got your money, or even
>> a legal *right* to enforce a contract, what good is dbs?
>> It's not even money.  It's more like a coupon or something.
>
>What you are missing is that all your arguments apply equally to cash.  Why
>is cash used if this is so?  Prove to me that you just gave me six $100
>bills.  You are, "without any practical means to verify who got your money
>or even a legal *right* to enforce a contract" if the transaction is larger
>than $500.
>
>If only we could be rid of this pesky cash would could eliminate organized
>crime forever.
>
>--- end forwarded text
>
>
>-----------------
>Robert A. Hettinga 
>Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
>44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
>"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
>[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
>experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 16:03:39 +0800
To: "Jean-Francois Avon" 
Subject: Re: Fwd: Turtles and Rocks(s)
In-Reply-To: <199811131844.NAA01899@cti06.citenet.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981113232903.007da2d0@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



The Libertarian Party of California is on record as being in favor of
re-legalizing ferrets, which are not legal pets in California,
though officials apparently look the other way while pet stores
blatantly aid and abet illegal ferret-possession.

Their most recent press release on the subject was titled
	Release: Ferrets
(There is no formal record of the Republican response to
this obvious terrorist threat, or whether the Green Party's
position was more strongly influenced by animal rights activists
who support releasing ferrets or deep ecologists who don't
want the non-native wild animals more widely dispersed :-)


At 01:43 PM 11/13/98 -0500, Jean-Francois Avon wrote:
>==================BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE==================
>>Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 06:37:41 -0500
>>From: Dan MacInnis 
>
>November 12th, 1998 the Toronto Board of Health announces they want to
>ban private 
>owner ship of snakes, turtles, any and all exotic pets.
>
>Reaction of pet owners was immediate. In this city of just under 3
>Million people, most said they would not abide by the law and hide their
>beloved pets.

				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 08:29:24 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: nCipher joined KRAP/GAK drive too?
Message-ID: <199811132348.XAA27396@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




This arose out of a discussion on ukcrypto about NAI (which PGP Inc is
now part of) having recently rejoined the KRA list -- I notice that
nCipher are on it too, and there was a earlier exchange on ukcrypto
about nCipher...

=========

nCipher too are now on the KRAP list (wonder how long for?)

Bruce Tober forwards from www.kra.org:
> [...]
>          nCipher Corporation Ltd.

nCipher fairly recently made some press release that was commented on
on this list as sounding a bit in favour of UK/DTI/GCHQ GAK attempts.
Then they claimed that it was just being read incorrectly and the text
was neutral and the title that was badly chosen and by hired PR.

So nCipher guys, how do you explain the membership of KRAP away?

>From the last list discussion, Ian Jackson, who works for nCipher wrote:

: We do not have any weakened or GAK products.  The Marketing Director
: has assured me that we have no plans to produce any.

also:

: So, in summary, there are no artificial restrictions on the sizes of
: keys which can be used, generated or stored by our units, and no
: backdoor GAK or key recovery facilities.

given the KRAP membership one might have cause to be worry that this
may not still be true.  Perhaps people using recent nCipher boards or
with recent software upgrades ought to read the specs real closely --
to see if it admits to encrypting stuff to GCHQ also!

Ian also wrote (in a post marked as not an official nCipher statement):
: I personally would feel that putting deliberate backdoors or other
: similar things into our products would be highly unethical and I would
: have nothing to do with it.

and:
: This has nothing to do with the spooks or escrow or anything of the
: kind.  

That's what GAK and KRAP is all about -- putting backdoors into
products which the government and secret service groups like GCHQ,
NSA and ECHELON get the keys to.

and:
: I do believe that the personal views of senior management at
: nCipher - particularly towards the technical end - are opposed to
: escrow et al.

Perhaps those technical types could have a go at prevailing over
whichever marketing type or suit decided to sign up for KRAP.

This is not intended to attack Ian, as he seemed pretty much against
GAK, and Niko van Someren to some extent too.  Not so sure about the
other non technical can Someren, but clearly someone in nCipher thinks
KRAP and GAK are a good marketing ploy.

Otherwise, I figure you're better off giving money to DEC alpha than
supporting GAKkers.  Alpha's run SSLeay pretty fast.

Adam

=========

and a second post, with more specifics:

=========

I wrote:
> nCipher too are now on the KRAP list (wonder how long for?)

here we go:

        http://www.ncipher.com/news/files/press/97/keyrecov.html

since May 97!

contains such gems as:
:       We are delighted to support the Key Recovery Alliance," said
:       Alex van Someren, President of nCipher. 

so that pin-points at least one GAK enthousiast at nCipher.

It also makes for some rather strange contradictions.  The flap about
nCiphers apparent whole-hearted support for DTI GAK attempts was May
this year -- nCipher had already been a paid up KRAP member for a
whole year.

press release continues (least there is any confusion as to what KRA
as an organisation is about):

: Encryption makes information readable only to a person holding a
: unique "key" which will unlock the data. Encryption is critical to
: ensure the security of sensitive information that is either stored
: electronically or sent over public networks such as the Internet.
: Key recovery is a new method that allows for authorized access
: to encrypted information without the need to store or "escrow"
: any encryption keys with a third party. Key recovery is an
: effective tool to meet commercial, private and institutional needs.

institutions obliquely mentioned being presumably the likes of GCHQ 
and NSA?

yet Ian was saying:
> : So, in summary, there are no artificial restrictions on the sizes of
> : keys which can be used, generated or stored by our units, and no 
> : backdoor GAK or key recovery facilities.

saying there were no key recovery facilities, and

: We do not have any weakened or GAK products.  The Marketing Director
: has assured me that we have no plans to produce any.

and no plans to install any.  yet this is what KRA is all about, and they
were signed up to it already at that time.

I suppose someone is now going to try to claim that KRA is all about
key recovery for commercial purposes, but not for government -- but
this is not the way I understand that KRA came into being at all.

I think it is very much a NSA led attempt to further the clipper
attempts.  If I recall it started in the wake of the NSA/NIST attempts
at clipper IV (or whatever number it was at by then) to coerce
companies into including software based key escrow.

Probably tied up with the permission to use marginally higher key
lengths if the company can demonstrate to NSA a plan to introduce GAK
in two year time scale (within the US), though I may be forgetting the
details.  Anyone like to clarify KRAs aims and history?

Adam




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 08:38:03 +0800
To: stevem@tightrope.demon.co.uk
Subject: NAI(L) in PGPs coffin (Re: network associates back in kra)
In-Reply-To: <19981113201903.A25115@tightrope.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <199811140004.AAA27507@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Steve Mynott writes:
> subject says it all
> 
> roll on gpg

NAI rejoining KRAP would be something of a gift for any competitors of
PGP producing PGP compabile replacements if there were any serious
contenders.  

Or perhaps for S/MIME vendors, if they weren't already mostly KRAP
members, or pretty neutral / prone to be bribed by defense contracts,
and if S/MIME and PKIX weren't so hierarchical in design:

I'm not sure S/MIME based offerings are much of an alternative because
the hierarchical model, and ability of a CA to restrict what the end
user can use keys for (not for certification for example), and
generally inability to use clients without cert obtained from another
KRA member -- verisign, all add up to bad news.  The whole mess can be
controlled by GAKkers via the CA, and the CAs are the target for
example of the UK GAK attempt being led by the DTI (Department of
Trade and Industry -- meant to be representing industry, but instead
trying it's level best to put GCHQ / ECHELON interests ahead of
business interests, as acknowledged by DTI winning Privacy
International's hall of shame award.).

To expand briefly on the UK (DTI) current proposal: it seems to be
that they are trying to stack the deck by giving signatures made with
a key certified by a UK government "licensed" CA given better
recognition in law than signatures made by an unlicensed CA.  The
licensed CA doesn't have to escrow signatures keys, but if it does and
provides any service relating to confidentiality keys also it must
also keep private keys.  (Deliverable to GCHQ / ECHELON within 1 hr 24
hours a day 365 days a year -- GAK on steroids).

Someone on ukcrypto coined the phrase `licensed to leak' to express
the government coerced baggage that goes with a licensed CA.

Indeed roll on the GPG.

Adam




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 16:39:15 +0800
To: Lucky Green 
Subject: Re: Free Email as Anonymous Remailer Re: NPR is at it again...
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981111015237.0079f350@idiom.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981114002632.007caa30@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 11:47 PM 11/11/98 +0100, Lucky Green wrote:
>On Wed, 11 Nov 1998, Bill Stewart wrote:
>> An interesting project would be a free low-volume anonymizer cgi for Apache,
>> given the large number of current users and the much larger number
>> of people who will run web servers once they have cable modems.
>How do you do chaining with a cgi?

Looks easy enough to do, if a bit ugly, where "ugly" is somewhat equivalent to
"build yet another local proxy widget to hide the gory details",
though it's not really much uglier than doing a good anonymizer,
and getting details like cookies and Java/script right are harder.

Define "encrypted" as "PGP or something like it".  It may be possible
to gain some efficiencies by using SSL, but not critical.
Take a cgi script and use POST to hand it an encrypted block containing:
	Response-Key:  
	HTTP Request, either vanilla URL or cgi URL with GET or POST data.
	Maybe some digicash
	Maybe some additional data
The script fetches the URL, handing along any data,
packages the response in HTTP reply format, and encrypts it with the 
response key for the client proxy to unpack.

To chain these, have the client nest the requests, doing a
URL that points to another anonymizer script and POSTs an encrypted block.
Eventually you'll get to a non-anonymizing URL;
it may be interesting to include any expected cookies in the block,
so the client can hand them to the destination web server,
or to gain some efficiencies by having the cgi script fetch
any IMG requests, and sending a bundle of HTTP reply packets
instead of just a single one.

The problems - 
- How can easily can you break the system?  
--- Does it leave too many open connections that can be followed?
--- Does the decreasing size of the requests and
	increasing size of responses make it too easy to trace?
--- What other obvious security holes are there?
- Timeouts or other problems?
- Denial of service attacks?

				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 14:33:58 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: New Electronic Financial Services Links
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


X-Sender: johnmuller@mail.earthlink.net
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 16:11:55 -0800
To: e-carm@c3po.kc-inc.net, dbs@philodox.com, dcsb@ai.mit.edu
From: John Muller 
Subject: New Electronic Financial Services Links
Mime-Version: 1.0
Sender: 
Precedence: Bulk
List-Subscribe: 
X-Web-Archive: http://www.philodox.com/dbs-archive/

New links that will shortly be added to the ABA Joint Subcommittee on
Electronic Financial Services Web site (http://www.abanet.org/buslaw/efss),
in no particular order:


Dept. of Commerce request for input on data privacy principles "safe harbor"
http://www.ita.doc.gov/ecom/menu.htm

SEC announces 23 enforcement actions for Internet stock fraud
http://www.sec.gov/news/netfraud.htm

RISKS Digest Vol. 20 No. 6, Dan Geer - "Risk Management is Where the Money Is"
http://catless.ncl.ac.uk/Risks/20.06.html

European Commission proposes a directive on distance selling of financial
services
http://europa.eu.int/comm/dg15/en/finances/consumer/891.htm

European Commission proposes a framework for the European financial
services sector to facilitate cross-border operation
http://europa.eu.int/comm/dg15/en/finances/general/fsen.htm

European Commission press release:  the EU Data Protection Directive takes
effect
http://europa.eu.int/comm/dg15/en/media/dataprot/news/925.htm

Federal Reserve announcement on enhanced settlement services
http://www.bog.frb.fed.us/boarddocs/press/BoardActs/1998/19981103/

Federal Reserve announcement of reduction in fees for electronic payment
services
http://www.bog.frb.fed.us/boarddocs/press/BoardActs/1998/19981104/

OTS policy statement on privacy of customer information
http://www.ots.treas.gov/docs/77879.html

Journal of Information Law and Technology issue on Globalisation and
E-commerce
http://elj.warwick.ac.uk/jilt/issue/1998_3/default.htm

Papers from the 21st National Information Systems Security Conference
http://csrc.nist.gov/nissc/1998/papers.html

BCI - Northern Trust 2nd Circuit case under UCC Article 4A and common law
seeking a return of funds from an electronic funds transfer
http://www.law.pace.edu/lawlib/legal/us-legal/judiciary/second-circuit/test3
/97-7633.opn.html

Hogan Systems v. Cybresource 5th Circuit decision on copyright and trade
secret claims arising out of third party contractor use of software
licensed to a bank
http://laws.findlaw.com/5th/9710645CV0.html

FTC comments on proposed UCC Article 2B
http://www.ftc.gov/be/v980032.htm

The ERISA Industry Committee comments to the IRS on the use of new
technologies in retirement plans
http://www.eric.org/testimony/technologies.htm

Council of Europe - model contract clauses on transborder data flows
http://www.coe.fr/dataprotection/ectype.htm

E*Trade invests in International Securities Exchange, an electronic options
exchange in development
http://www.etrade.com/cgi-bin/gx.cgi/AppLogic+Home?gxml=pr111098c.html

Electronic Markets Vol. 11 No. 3 on electronic contracting
http://www.electronicmarkets.org/netacademy/publications.nsf/all_pk/929

Adrian McCullagh article on Trust in Electronic Commerce
http://www.acs.org.au/president/1998/past/io98/etrust.htm

CheckFree and others form the Electronic Banking Association
http://www.e-banking.org/


John Muller
johnmuller@earthlink.net
"Things are not as they seem, neither are they otherwise"

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 14:36:17 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: DBS, Privacy, Money Laundering nonsense.
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Long-time DCSBers will remember Unicorn's talk on money laundering to us a
few years ago...

This more recent rant of his on the Digital Bearer Settlement list is about
the best articulation of his position that I've seen him write.

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga


--- begin forwarded text


From: "Black Unicorn" 
To: , "dbs" 
Subject: DBS, Privacy, Money Laundering nonsense.
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 22:57:51 -0600
Keywords: dbs
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Importance: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4
Sender: 
Precedence: Bulk
List-Subscribe: 
X-Web-Archive: http://www.philodox.com/dbs-archive/

tboyle@rosehill.net comments:

[...]

> But I simply cannot comprehend the breadth of the agreement
> on this dbs conference, and depth of conviction, that DBS money
> should be designed with the **deliberate objective** of being
> untraceable, for purposes of law enforcement or taxation.

In the case of some DBS advocates you are overstating the matter.  In the
case of others, vastly understating it.

> I have a lot of respect for you guys' intellect but I think
> you're wrong on two fundamental points:
>
> 1.  Rule of law.  Money laundering is a critical piece in
> organized crime. The democratic countries have banking laws.
> Do you think these laws should be followed, or NOT?  (Scurrying
> of feet as all the DBS readers avoid answering.)

Well let's examine this.  The view that all democratic countries have
banking laws really begs the question.  "What are the differences between
said laws."  I can tell you with solid authority, they are many.

I've often repeated this story here and elsewhere.  It's all a matter of
public record.

Set the way-back-machine to just after Reagan has entered office.  Ole Ron
began to crack down on tax evasion and in particular offshore havens.
Taxes would be cut, it was reasoned, but only if loopholes were filled and
evaders rooted out.  (Those of us old enough to remember might even recall
nodding at the sense of it).

This policy was particular hard on certain Caribbean nations.  This was the
time of operation Tradewinds (search for it in the congressional record)
and other IRS black projects where the IRS actually violated local law to
spy on foreign banks even going so far as to drug guards, steal the
briefcases of banking executives, perform unwarranted searches, bribe
foreign officials and all manner of nonsense to root out tax evaders which
might also be U.S. citizens.  For a long while there was a project which
opened and Xeroxed all the incoming mail at JFK which appeared to originate
from offshore havens.  This wasn't in the 50's mind you, but the 80s.  It
was acts like these which prompted the Swiss to strengthen their banking
secrecy during the Second World War.  Just another day in the park in the
U.S.  Just recently this year Mexico nearly indicted several U.S. law
officials for breaking Mexican law during the investigation of several
Mexican banks.  Clearly the practice hasn't abated much in the last 15
years..   (Note also that today all these methods (except for drugging
guards maybe) have their legal equivalents in the United States, which is
in itself a powerful statement).  This continued for some time back when
Ron was at the helm until the United States finally began to threaten to
revoke the U.S. charters of certain banks it considered uncooperative.  At
this point a visitor, unannounced, flew into D.C. and literally dropped by
the White House with no press coverage or fanfare at all in the late
evening.  That visitor was Margaret Thatcher and she proceeded to explain
to Ron over the course of a few hours that if he kept it up many of the
British Protectorates would literally have their economies crippled.

Literally overnight the matter was dropped and the offshore centers left to
quietly continue their business.

So much for democratic countries with universal ideas about banking law, or
the rule of "law and order" in banking regulation.

This is but one example.

So:

Rule of Law - means little in the global-political scheme of things
Democratic Countries Have Banking Laws - none of which are consistent or
consistently applied

Money Laundering is a Key Piece of Organized Crime -

This begs a definition of Money Laundering.  "Concealing the proceeds of a
criminal act" sounds legitimate, but consider that it has been held to
apply to a store clerk who sold food stamps for cash and deposited the
proceeds in his personal (non-anonymous) checking account:  Indicted in
Federal Court for Money Laundering with a maximum possible term of 35
years.  (This is a prosecutorial tactic to get a guilty plea to the basic
theft charge).  Consider also that third parties often take it on the chin
with the wide definition currently applied.  Case in point: Ma and Pa
travel agency innocently accepts a deposit from notorious attorney of drug
dealer.  Their entire holding account is seized including the deposits of
some 700 other potential travelers.  After 7 years of fighting the seizure,
the money is finally returned, without interest.  (Effectively halfing the
value of the funds).  The business is ruined, its reputation in tatters.
Ma and Pa fight it out in bankruptcy, lose their house, most of their
retirement proceeds, etc.  In the process this case sets the precedent that
any amount of illicit funds ($1) deposited in any size account ($500
million) will render the entire account liable to seizure and permit it to
be held in lieu of forfeiture hearings.  That can go on for 7 years or so.
Money which is "laundered" has its title literally revert to the U.S.
Treasury.  This means third parties who innocently accept these funds are
liable for their return, even if they are passed on in the course of
business.  Beginning to seem silly?  Money laundering is an invented
offense.  It's definition in the United States has grown so broad so as to
be laughable, if not so frightening.  Do not think that these are isolated
incidents.

So, money laundering in its commonly understood sense might be key to
organized crime, but what passes for money laundering in the United States
has little to do with it.

Myth:  Money Laundering laws have a serious impact on organized crime.

This is increasingly nonsense.  The United States spends close to
$22,000.00 to seize $1.00 of illicit funds.  Money Laundering today is
extremely sophisticated and enforcement doesn't catch the drug dealers, it
catches professional money launderers.  Today if you are a drug lord you
drop $30 million in cash with a professional launderer who cuts you a
"clean" check for 85% of that figure or so on the spot and takes the risk
of laundering the funds on his own.

Myth: Money Laundering can be detected accurately and effectively and leads
to drug and organized crime convictions.

Nonsense.  Assume for sake of argument that you could detect 99% of
fraudulent transactions with the measures in place (entirely impossible)
and that your false positive rate was only 1% (also entirely impossible).
SWIFT alone processes $2 trillion per day.  That's on the order of $600
trillion per year, just in SWIFT.  (Add another $1.3 billion for CHIPS and
$989 million for Fedwire daily.  Oh, don't forget the foreign exchange
markets, oh and NYSE, oh and NASDAQ, oh and international letters of
credit, oh and...)  The most sinister estimates of the global criminal
economy (primarily drug money) run around $400 billion per year.  Your
false positives will identify $6 trillion in naughty funds that are
actually pure just in SWIFT.  Your correct hits will identify $396 billion
in naughty funds in all systems worldwide.  In this example you will have
15 times as many false hits as correct hits ignoring the lionshare of world
financial systems.  This is under the very best of circumstances.  It's a
losing game..  It's a game only the mathematically challenged or
politically motivated will play.  In fact, money laundering is a tack on
offense that is brought to bear after an arrest on other charges has been
made.  The number of cases that originate with a money laundering
investigation is vanishingly small.

The payment system today eats up over 1.5% of the GNP primarily because of
nonsense regulations like CTR's and other transaction reporting
requirements which can cost up to $15 per transaction and (as we see above)
have little if any effect on professional money laundering.  Given these
numbers the degree of "fraud" in the world financial system is far better
than in the credit card system, which has pretty much reached equilibrium.
(Fraud accounts for about 5% of credit card costs.  Customer service
accounts for about 15%).

> There is a certain logic in the notion of having a legislative
> process and laws.  Our laws in the U.S. weren't written by
> angels up in heaven, but they are better than some other places.

In the case of money laundering regulation I should say almost _no_ other
places.

> If DBS participants advocate that money laundering laws are
> not to be followed, I'm sorry but YOU GUYS have the burden
> of logically arguing your position.  So shut up and quit
> raggin' on *me* about it.

I would just like to see them applied with rationality.  It's fairly clear
that that's too much to ask of the United States.  Interestingly enough
it's typically multi-party systems of government that have a balanced
approach to money laundering.  Perhaps this is because grandstanding with
things like "the war on drugs" isn't as effective outside of a two party
system.  Sheds new light on your comment about democracies and banking
regulations.

Some jurisdictions get along quite well without the nonsense perpetrated in
the United States.  Like Switzerland.  Switzerland has one of the nicest
things in a cash economy I have seen.  A freely circulated 1000CHF note.
It's worth about $750.  (The United States phased out $500 bills long ago
to deal with laundering).  In Switzerland you can drop a 1000CHF note at a
restaurant and no one bats an eye.  In the U.S. you cant take a cab home
from the International Terminal unless you have something smaller than a
$50.  Somehow Switzerland has manage to survive without looting in the
streets and rampant crime.  Luxembourg is in a similar situation.

I tried to purchase a car some years ago outside of D.C. with cash.
Completely legitimate transaction.  No interest nonsense for me to worry
about.  No waiting for the car while the check clears.  Simple.  Right?
The dealership called the police, convinced they were striking a blow
against drug dealers.

It's really gone too far.

> 2.  Practicality.   Without at least a fig leaf of cooperation
> with banking authorities and other police, DBS will not be
> permitted.  Transactions denominated in DBS won't be enforceable
> in courts, and fraud won't be a crime.  Reporting fraud in DBS
> deal would be like reporting a fraud in purchase of heroin.

Practicality?

Of course any student of political science will understand that where
government enforcement of contracts fails or falls short, organized crime
tends to move in.  Reporting fraud in the purchase of heroin to the right
enforcement cartel tends to be much more effective in rendering results
than U.S. courts I'd wager.  Clearly, the United States would not benefit
by forcing DBS underground.  Several jurisdictions will permit DBS and
enforce it.  (I'm involved in the legislative process for one such law in a
European jurisdiction now).  If you believe that DBS should be outlawed
then you must agree that cash should be outlawed.  There is effectively no
difference but velocity.

> The principal reason for failure of electronic money, other
> than cards used in physical establishments, is you can't trust
> the seller to send you the goods.  That's why everybody is
> using credit cards, and bearing the 2-3% charge for "insurance".
>
> You guys seem to think untraceable DBS will be accepted, if
> only a good enough encryption algorithm can be found????

1% of the GNP.  Instant 1% growth for changing a system of clearing.  Think
about that for awhile.

> I think your ideas have a fatal, logical weakness.  Without
> any practical means to verify who got your money, or even
> a legal *right* to enforce a contract, what good is dbs?
> It's not even money.  It's more like a coupon or something.

What you are missing is that all your arguments apply equally to cash.  Why
is cash used if this is so?  Prove to me that you just gave me six $100
bills.  You are, "without any practical means to verify who got your money
or even a legal *right* to enforce a contract" if the transaction is larger
than $500.

If only we could be rid of this pesky cash would could eliminate organized
crime forever.

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 14:34:24 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: DBS, Privacy, Money Laundering nonsense.
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


From: "Black Unicorn" 
To: , "dbs" 
Subject: DBS, Privacy, Money Laundering nonsense.
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 22:57:51 -0600
Keywords: dbs
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Importance: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4
Sender: 
Precedence: Bulk
List-Subscribe: 
X-Web-Archive: http://www.philodox.com/dbs-archive/

tboyle@rosehill.net comments:

[...]

> But I simply cannot comprehend the breadth of the agreement
> on this dbs conference, and depth of conviction, that DBS money
> should be designed with the **deliberate objective** of being
> untraceable, for purposes of law enforcement or taxation.

In the case of some DBS advocates you are overstating the matter.  In the
case of others, vastly understating it.

> I have a lot of respect for you guys' intellect but I think
> you're wrong on two fundamental points:
>
> 1.  Rule of law.  Money laundering is a critical piece in
> organized crime. The democratic countries have banking laws.
> Do you think these laws should be followed, or NOT?  (Scurrying
> of feet as all the DBS readers avoid answering.)

Well let's examine this.  The view that all democratic countries have
banking laws really begs the question.  "What are the differences between
said laws."  I can tell you with solid authority, they are many.

I've often repeated this story here and elsewhere.  It's all a matter of
public record.

Set the way-back-machine to just after Reagan has entered office.  Ole Ron
began to crack down on tax evasion and in particular offshore havens.
Taxes would be cut, it was reasoned, but only if loopholes were filled and
evaders rooted out.  (Those of us old enough to remember might even recall
nodding at the sense of it).

This policy was particular hard on certain Caribbean nations.  This was the
time of operation Tradewinds (search for it in the congressional record)
and other IRS black projects where the IRS actually violated local law to
spy on foreign banks even going so far as to drug guards, steal the
briefcases of banking executives, perform unwarranted searches, bribe
foreign officials and all manner of nonsense to root out tax evaders which
might also be U.S. citizens.  For a long while there was a project which
opened and Xeroxed all the incoming mail at JFK which appeared to originate
from offshore havens.  This wasn't in the 50's mind you, but the 80s.  It
was acts like these which prompted the Swiss to strengthen their banking
secrecy during the Second World War.  Just another day in the park in the
U.S.  Just recently this year Mexico nearly indicted several U.S. law
officials for breaking Mexican law during the investigation of several
Mexican banks.  Clearly the practice hasn't abated much in the last 15
years..   (Note also that today all these methods (except for drugging
guards maybe) have their legal equivalents in the United States, which is
in itself a powerful statement).  This continued for some time back when
Ron was at the helm until the United States finally began to threaten to
revoke the U.S. charters of certain banks it considered uncooperative.  At
this point a visitor, unannounced, flew into D.C. and literally dropped by
the White House with no press coverage or fanfare at all in the late
evening.  That visitor was Margaret Thatcher and she proceeded to explain
to Ron over the course of a few hours that if he kept it up many of the
British Protectorates would literally have their economies crippled.

Literally overnight the matter was dropped and the offshore centers left to
quietly continue their business.

So much for democratic countries with universal ideas about banking law, or
the rule of "law and order" in banking regulation.

This is but one example.

So:

Rule of Law - means little in the global-political scheme of things
Democratic Countries Have Banking Laws - none of which are consistent or
consistently applied

Money Laundering is a Key Piece of Organized Crime -

This begs a definition of Money Laundering.  "Concealing the proceeds of a
criminal act" sounds legitimate, but consider that it has been held to
apply to a store clerk who sold food stamps for cash and deposited the
proceeds in his personal (non-anonymous) checking account:  Indicted in
Federal Court for Money Laundering with a maximum possible term of 35
years.  (This is a prosecutorial tactic to get a guilty plea to the basic
theft charge).  Consider also that third parties often take it on the chin
with the wide definition currently applied.  Case in point: Ma and Pa
travel agency innocently accepts a deposit from notorious attorney of drug
dealer.  Their entire holding account is seized including the deposits of
some 700 other potential travelers.  After 7 years of fighting the seizure,
the money is finally returned, without interest.  (Effectively halfing the
value of the funds).  The business is ruined, its reputation in tatters.
Ma and Pa fight it out in bankruptcy, lose their house, most of their
retirement proceeds, etc.  In the process this case sets the precedent that
any amount of illicit funds ($1) deposited in any size account ($500
million) will render the entire account liable to seizure and permit it to
be held in lieu of forfeiture hearings.  That can go on for 7 years or so.
Money which is "laundered" has its title literally revert to the U.S.
Treasury.  This means third parties who innocently accept these funds are
liable for their return, even if they are passed on in the course of
business.  Beginning to seem silly?  Money laundering is an invented
offense.  It's definition in the United States has grown so broad so as to
be laughable, if not so frightening.  Do not think that these are isolated
incidents.

So, money laundering in its commonly understood sense might be key to
organized crime, but what passes for money laundering in the United States
has little to do with it.

Myth:  Money Laundering laws have a serious impact on organized crime.

This is increasingly nonsense.  The United States spends close to
$22,000.00 to seize $1.00 of illicit funds.  Money Laundering today is
extremely sophisticated and enforcement doesn't catch the drug dealers, it
catches professional money launderers.  Today if you are a drug lord you
drop $30 million in cash with a professional launderer who cuts you a
"clean" check for 85% of that figure or so on the spot and takes the risk
of laundering the funds on his own.

Myth: Money Laundering can be detected accurately and effectively and leads
to drug and organized crime convictions.

Nonsense.  Assume for sake of argument that you could detect 99% of
fraudulent transactions with the measures in place (entirely impossible)
and that your false positive rate was only 1% (also entirely impossible).
SWIFT alone processes $2 trillion per day.  That's on the order of $600
trillion per year, just in SWIFT.  (Add another $1.3 billion for CHIPS and
$989 million for Fedwire daily.  Oh, don't forget the foreign exchange
markets, oh and NYSE, oh and NASDAQ, oh and international letters of
credit, oh and...)  The most sinister estimates of the global criminal
economy (primarily drug money) run around $400 billion per year.  Your
false positives will identify $6 trillion in naughty funds that are
actually pure just in SWIFT.  Your correct hits will identify $396 billion
in naughty funds in all systems worldwide.  In this example you will have
15 times as many false hits as correct hits ignoring the lionshare of world
financial systems.  This is under the very best of circumstances.  It's a
losing game..  It's a game only the mathematically challenged or
politically motivated will play.  In fact, money laundering is a tack on
offense that is brought to bear after an arrest on other charges has been
made.  The number of cases that originate with a money laundering
investigation is vanishingly small.

The payment system today eats up over 1.5% of the GNP primarily because of
nonsense regulations like CTR's and other transaction reporting
requirements which can cost up to $15 per transaction and (as we see above)
have little if any effect on professional money laundering.  Given these
numbers the degree of "fraud" in the world financial system is far better
than in the credit card system, which has pretty much reached equilibrium.
(Fraud accounts for about 5% of credit card costs.  Customer service
accounts for about 15%).

> There is a certain logic in the notion of having a legislative
> process and laws.  Our laws in the U.S. weren't written by
> angels up in heaven, but they are better than some other places.

In the case of money laundering regulation I should say almost _no_ other
places.

> If DBS participants advocate that money laundering laws are
> not to be followed, I'm sorry but YOU GUYS have the burden
> of logically arguing your position.  So shut up and quit
> raggin' on *me* about it.

I would just like to see them applied with rationality.  It's fairly clear
that that's too much to ask of the United States.  Interestingly enough
it's typically multi-party systems of government that have a balanced
approach to money laundering.  Perhaps this is because grandstanding with
things like "the war on drugs" isn't as effective outside of a two party
system.  Sheds new light on your comment about democracies and banking
regulations.

Some jurisdictions get along quite well without the nonsense perpetrated in
the United States.  Like Switzerland.  Switzerland has one of the nicest
things in a cash economy I have seen.  A freely circulated 1000CHF note.
It's worth about $750.  (The United States phased out $500 bills long ago
to deal with laundering).  In Switzerland you can drop a 1000CHF note at a
restaurant and no one bats an eye.  In the U.S. you cant take a cab home
from the International Terminal unless you have something smaller than a
$50.  Somehow Switzerland has manage to survive without looting in the
streets and rampant crime.  Luxembourg is in a similar situation.

I tried to purchase a car some years ago outside of D.C. with cash.
Completely legitimate transaction.  No interest nonsense for me to worry
about.  No waiting for the car while the check clears.  Simple.  Right?
The dealership called the police, convinced they were striking a blow
against drug dealers.

It's really gone too far.

> 2.  Practicality.   Without at least a fig leaf of cooperation
> with banking authorities and other police, DBS will not be
> permitted.  Transactions denominated in DBS won't be enforceable
> in courts, and fraud won't be a crime.  Reporting fraud in DBS
> deal would be like reporting a fraud in purchase of heroin.

Practicality?

Of course any student of political science will understand that where
government enforcement of contracts fails or falls short, organized crime
tends to move in.  Reporting fraud in the purchase of heroin to the right
enforcement cartel tends to be much more effective in rendering results
than U.S. courts I'd wager.  Clearly, the United States would not benefit
by forcing DBS underground.  Several jurisdictions will permit DBS and
enforce it.  (I'm involved in the legislative process for one such law in a
European jurisdiction now).  If you believe that DBS should be outlawed
then you must agree that cash should be outlawed.  There is effectively no
difference but velocity.

> The principal reason for failure of electronic money, other
> than cards used in physical establishments, is you can't trust
> the seller to send you the goods.  That's why everybody is
> using credit cards, and bearing the 2-3% charge for "insurance".
>
> You guys seem to think untraceable DBS will be accepted, if
> only a good enough encryption algorithm can be found????

1% of the GNP.  Instant 1% growth for changing a system of clearing.  Think
about that for awhile.

> I think your ideas have a fatal, logical weakness.  Without
> any practical means to verify who got your money, or even
> a legal *right* to enforce a contract, what good is dbs?
> It's not even money.  It's more like a coupon or something.

What you are missing is that all your arguments apply equally to cash.  Why
is cash used if this is so?  Prove to me that you just gave me six $100
bills.  You are, "without any practical means to verify who got your money
or even a legal *right* to enforce a contract" if the transaction is larger
than $500.

If only we could be rid of this pesky cash would could eliminate organized
crime forever.

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 04:01:31 +0800
To: Petro 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981114005026.007cb920@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 12:18 PM 11/11/98 -0500, Petro or other people wrote:
>	Sub-contracting can often lead to cost savings. For instance,
>instead of each insurer having their own fire station network, they could
>all share one, and only pay a certain cost-per-subscriber.

Government subcontracting can be yet another excuse for graft and kickbacks
or it can be an opportunity for the private sector to seriously compete 
for government business, or at least an opportunity to compete for graft :-)
Sometimes this can save money for the public, though seldom as much
as letting services be provided by the private sector.

>>> 	Looking different is not illegal.
What's that, white boy?
>>> 	Thinking different is not illegal.
Always has been, anywhere, any time....


>	Listen Fuckwad:
>	(1) there are paved roads from one coast to the other, as well as
>railways.
>	(3) Most of the roads being built with federal funds are for
>"congestion  relief", not roads to new places so troops can move.

Of course they are, and everybody's pretty much known it all along,
but "defense" was the excuse used for having the Feds get into the
road-building business on a much more massive scale than ever before.
Much of it corresponded nicely with "urban renewal", the 60s policy
of making cities more beautiful by replacing black peoples' houses with
freeways.  Once (white) people got used to freeways, they mostly
stopped complaining about expenditures, and started complaining that
they didn't have _their_ freeway yet.

>	The Army. Marines, and National Guard are fully capable of getting
>whereever they need to go with our without the current highway system, if
>they weren't they'd be worthless.

No, but the industrial base that keeps the military functioning
does benefit from the highway system.  

>	(2) There hasn't been a war fought on CONUS since we attacked Mexico.

Excuse me?  Are you talking about some recent attack on Mexico,
or are you referring to the Mexican War of 1846?
Or are you contending that the Confederate States weren't part of the
Contiguous United States, and therefore the Union's ReConquest 
of the South wasn't in CONUS?  Or that the Indian wars in the west
weren't wars, just Police Actions, or that the various ex-Mexican
territories weren't States yet, and thus not CONUS?



				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 14:33:55 +0800
To: "dbs" 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 11:57 PM -0500 on 11/13/98, Black Unicorn wrote:

> If only we could be rid of this pesky cash would could eliminate organized
> crime forever.

Reminds me of something Vinnie Moscaritolo, my alter ego and Samoan attorney,
once said.

"'If we could just pass a few more laws' we could all be criminals."


Nonetheless, I think that DBS will be much more about economics than privacy
or even law. The contrapositive of Unicorn's excellent rant is that the market
for money "laundering" and financial privacy is a rediculuously small fraction
of the market for economic efficiency.

That digital bearer settlement gives us more or less perfect financial privacy
if done under certain conditions is much more a happy accident than anything
else, just like the cheapest way to do a transaction prior to blind signatures
and hash collisions was with book-entry transactions instead of paper bearer
certificates.

I suppose it *might* turn out that you really *can* do an instantaneously
executing, clearing, and settling on-line realtime book-entry transaction,
for everything from pico- to quadridollars, and it would be cheaper, both
macroeconomically and microeconomically, than a digital bearer one, but I
just don't think it's possible at all.


And, of course, we wouldn't have coach fare to Cleveland without a bunch of
"fanatics" out there, prattling away about slipping the surly bounds of earth,
the joy of flight, and all that... ;-).


Thank god for the "fanatics", I say, but let's make sure we pay attention to
Bill Bradley's adage that it's bad luck to be behind at the end of the game.

Whatever is cheapest while still remaining a functional bearer protocol
wins, in other words.

And, in my book, "functional" means "functionally anonymous". It's just
cheaper that way. Having a plane that actually flies is way cheaper than
one which just goes fast down the runway, or even one which scoots along
nicely off the ground, but only in ground effect.

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.5.5

iQEVAwUBNk0f7cUCGwxmWcHhAQErBQgAhaFscqaknL0EMnsiKMWYgoHntw88JE2Z
11K8/oyoG/dX8eus5Wqnh05eVY8JWGQ9Fu3C2uXPZbZCa5wh7tjrmIcWOTDgx8kC
Sz11IJJLdcWrdTPw7a1sf/WwhyG4f7NVlyVGNqMVuGrBjImsC5TtG2yU39DVME08
ZR3bVdn6egcCDpve+E7RQ0LYWDHxitxYV3RIaCG/wj9zp5JrMPTAvIgbT+J62T8s
bYUNJyf7XQnkcT5275VLAzFYy+3KBRuyp9k6uIhBaBGKBNRUw/wBwTB8NoBMPcd8
AT3276SNz1oBA+Z/R0JPRBrRkAfio2o3DFIXoC5NY49ikpBuyOEQHg==
=R0aY
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Vin McLellan 
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 16:49:13 +0800
To: John Young 
Subject: RE: Rivest Patent
In-Reply-To: <364CC4AF.E30659DA@acm.org>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



When the always well-informed John Young reported that the US Patent Office
had issued MIT Prof. Ron Rivest US Patent 5835600 for a "Block encryption
algorithm with data-dependent rotations," Eric Cordian
 growled:

> So we can't use the rotate instruction with a data-dependent shift
> count in a block encryption algorithm without a license from Ron?
>
> Foo on that.

Really, Mr. Cordian, you should read a patent before you foo at it. See:
http://jya.com/rivest111098.htm

This particular patent is probably less than it first appears to be.

When a patent is marked as "divisional" of a specific application, it means
it has been broken off and separated from a prior patent application.

In this case, when Rivest sought a patent for RC5, a block cipher which is
notable for the elegant simplicity that has become Ron's trademark style,
the Patent Examiner suggested that he refile the application in two parts:
one on the encryption method, and a second on the key-schedule structure.

The patent on the RC5 encryption method, US5724428 -- which has generally
been referred to as the RC5 patent -- was issued March 3, 1998, with the
same title ("Block encryption algorithm with data-dependent rotations") and
an identical Abstract to this more recent patent, US5835600, which was
issued Nov. 10.  See:
http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?pn=US05724428__&language=en

This latest patent, US5835600, only covers the design of the key schedule
used in RC5 (and RC6). Period.  The data-dependent rotation claims were in
the earlier RC5 patent.

Even Ron's initial RC5 patent, however, referred to data-dependent
rotations only in the context that they are used in RC5. It surely is not
any universal IP claim.

Among the relevant prior work Rivest cited in his original application (and
US5724428) was Wolfram Becker's work for IBM in the 1970s -- patented in
US4157454 -- which seems to rely on data-dependent rotations too. Note that
the Patent Examiners determined that Becker's work did not impinge upon or
otherwise disqualify Rivest's specific RC5 claims.

(I wouldn't hazard a guess as to whether RSA's RC5 patent covers IBM's MARS
algorithm, as some have suggested, just because MARS also uses
data-dependent rotations. Some on this list may be competent to dice the
issues that fine but I am not.)

Mr. Cordian ventured an additional opinion or two:

|>As you may have guessed, I'm not a fan of permitting software to be
|>patented.  Particularly things like RSA for which obvious prior art
|>existed....

Eric Michael Cordian is a Persistant Network Nym which has been around for
quite a while. It recently caught to eye of some crypto mavens on these
lists when Cordian revealed himself as both a pseudonym and a collective
identity.

E.M. Cordian has been the net persona behind which a group of
self-described cryptographic professionals have raised $7,500 in donations
to underwrite the "DES Analytic Crack Project," an  ambitious effort
"to develop ANSI C code which will break DES in under one day on a $5k
workstation."

See: http://www.cyberspace.org/~enoch/crakfaq.html

Now, it seems to me reasonable, albiet academic, to argue whether or not
software should be patentable.  It is also certainly reasonable to argue
whether or not cryptographic algorithms should be patentable.

On the other hand, it seems to me unreasonable, willfully ill-informed,
and/or  malovelent to declare -- in the face of several judicial rulings
which have firmly ratified the RSA PKC patent -- that  "prior art" exists
which should have invalidated that patent.  Horseshit!

Stanford and Cylink couldn't find it, despite a highly motivated and
well-funded search. They doubtless would have paid you handsomely for your
evidence and definitive testimony, but you missed your chance.

Now you'll -- collectively, Sirs? -- just have to settle for being another
cadre in the crowd that hoots and sneers at Ron Rivest whenever he comes up
with something new which significantly enhances our cryptographic arsenal
(and has the gall to patent it or otherwise claim IP ownership.)

Seems like a demeaning role for a group of professionals which claim to
collectively have "decades of practical experience in successfully
implementing the most complex computer algorithms."

	Suerte,

		_Vin

PS. Regarding the debate about whether RC6 will be freely available, my
understanding (as a consulant to RSA) is that Jim Gillogly has it right.

If RC6 is selected as the American AES, RSA (now a subsidary of Security
Dynamics) will relinquish all patent rights and royalty expectations.  If
RC6 is not selected as the AES -- and given the decades of conflict,
antagonism, and competition between the spooks of the NSA and RSA, RC6 is
surely a remote long shot -- RSA will offer it as a commercial product.

The two RC5 patents appear to cover RC6. The AES evaluation process will
provide an invaluable high-stress testbed for Rivest's innovative use of
data-dependent rotations.  When the AES is chosen by the NSA -- whichever
algorithm is finally chosen -- the cryptographic community will know a lot
more about the security and viability of this particular Rivest design.
Then we can start wondering what Rivest will come up with for Ron's Code
(RC) 7.

-----
      Vin McLellan + The Privacy Guild + 
  53 Nichols St., Chelsea, MA 02150 USA <617> 884-5548
                         -- <@><@> --





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jukka E Isosaari 
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 10:52:10 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: [ISN] Privacy Group Pushes For Hearings on ECHELON   (fwd)
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 06:52:45 -0700 (MST)
From: mea culpa 
To: InfoSec News 
Subject: [ISN] Privacy Group Pushes For Hearings on ECHELON  


Push for hearings on Echelon:
Global spy system needs scrutiny, says rights group
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_exnews/19981112_xex_push_hearing.shtml
Stephan Archer

In an effort to create some accountability between the country's citizens
and the National Security Agency's top-secret global surveillance system
known as Echelon, the Free Congress Foundation is urging that
congressional hearings be held concerning the NSA's use of the system. 

Originally, Echelon was designed to spy on the Communist Bloc during the
Cold War. However, since the end of the Cold War, the NSA has used it for
other questionable purposes that include spying on the citizens of U.S. 
allies as well as the citizens of other countries, commercial spying, and
even domestic spying. 

In essence, Echelon works through a series of high-tech spy facilities
located primarily in five countries: the United States, Canada, England,
New Zealand, and Australia. These countries, which are sworn to secrecy
about the project in a secret agreement known as UKUSA, all actively take
part in this encroachment of privacy into the lives of the people of the
world by collecting virtually all fax transmissions, e-mails, and phone
calls. Not even cellular phone calls escape the grasp of the Echelon
system. 

"Obviously, we need to have these capabilities," said Wayne Madsen, who
worked in the National COMSEC Assessment Center at the NSA's Fort Meade,
Maryland, facility back in the 1980s and is currently a senior fellow at
the Electronic Privacy Information Center. 

As an example of our country's need for the system, Madsen said, "No one
can argue about using the system to counter terrorism. Where people will
have a problem is where Echelon is used for political and business
interests." 

The Echelon system gets most of its data by collecting all transmissions
handled by the Intelsat and Inmarsat satellites, which are responsible for
much of the electronic communication that takes place between countries. 
Earth-bound communication is sucked up and absorbed by other spy
satellites that the NSA has launched into space. 

"It's a huge vacuum cleaner," said Madsen. 

Once these spy facilities collect the phone calls, e-mails, and faxes, of
virtually everyone on earth, the Echelon system sorts them through a kind
of filter system known as the Echelon dictionary. This dictionary looks
for "flag" words in all of the transmitted communication. While it lets a
majority of all collected material pass through its filter, it tags those
that may pose a threat and tracks all subsequent communication coming from
the source of the original "flagged" message. 

Concerning Echelon's inherent intrusion on people's privacy, Patrick
Poole, the deputy director for the Center of Technology Policy at the Free
Congress Foundation, said, "While we understand the need for the
intelligence power embodied by Echelon, the indiscriminate use of Echelon
presents major threats to liberty not only to U.S. citizens but to
citizens around the world." 

And this threat is real. The foundation's report states that U.S. leaders
have, in fact, already abused this awesome technology. For example, the
report states the following: "In September 1993, President Clinton asked
the CIA to spy on Japanese auto manufacturers that were designing
zero-emission cars and to forward that information to the Big Three U.S. 
car manufacturers: Ford, General Motors and Chrysler." 

"You can assume that all major U.S. corporations are fed items of interest
(via Echelon) from time to time to give them a leg up on international
competitors," said Madsen. 

Although this may be seen as a strategic corporate weapon for American
businesses, in reality, it's an example of technology that can get out of
hand. For example, former Canadian spy Mike Frost stated in his book,
"Spyworld," that in 1981, there was an "accidental" cell phone intercept
of the American ambassador to Canada that resulted in the U.S. getting
outbid by the Canadians in a grain deal with China. The deal brought in
$2.5 billion for the Canadian Wheat Board. 

With this kind of abuse of Echelon's power, the question as to whether or
not the U.S. government has been using this power for political purposes
can be easily raised. This question is seemingly answered in the
foundation's report. 

"The discovery of domestic surveillance targeted at American civilians for
reasons of 'unpopular' political affiliation -- or for no probable cause
at all -- in violation of the First, Fourth and Fifth Amendments of the
Constitution is regularly impeded by very elaborate and complex legal
arguments and privilege claims by the intelligence agencies and the U.S. 
government," the report says. 

When asked if the system has been used by the U.S. government to spy on
its citizens, Madsen told WorldNetDaily that he was sure it has been. 

"I don't believe that the NSA or the current Administration would hesitate
to use this system on American citizens for their own agendas," he said. 

Outraged by this flagrant abuse of power illustrated by our country's
elected officials, Poole said, "While the U.S. is the prime mover behind
the Echelon system, it's shameful that the European Parliament is the body
holding the constitutional debate in regards to Echelon today." 

A September 1998 report for the European Parliament by the Omega
Foundation said, "Within Europe, all e-mail, telephone, and fax
communications are routinely intercepted by the United States National
Security Agency. 

According to the Omega Foundation report, it is this ability of the NSA
that brings major concern to the European Parliament. In an effort to
bring the issues surrounding Echelon to the forefront of American
politics, the Free Congress Foundation plans to send out a report about
Echelon to all of the 500 policy organizations in the U.S. as well as to
select members of Congress. These select individuals include members from
both the House and Senate intelligence committees as well as House and
Senate Constitution subcommittees. Copies of the report will also be sent
to the congressional leadership of both parties. 

Although the foundation is hoping to get some action out of these members
of Congress, Poole said that support at the grassroots level of our
nation's political structure will be a must if this issue isn't to end up
buried by the intelligence committees. 

"For there to be any account and oversight to the Echelon system, the
American people are going to have to contact their elected representatives
in order to investigate the abuses that we know have occurred in regards
to the Echelon system," Poole said. 

See Free Congress Foundation's report on Echelon at: 
http://www.freecongress.org/ctp/echelon.html


-o-
Subscribe: mail majordomo@repsec.com with "subscribe isn".
Today's ISN Sponsor: Repent Security Incorporated [www.repsec.com]




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jason Burton 
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 18:09:07 +0800
To: Cypherpunks 
Subject: Privacy and the internet
Message-ID: <199811140949.BAA21751@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Does anyone know what I should do if someone was posting sensitive
information on a website?

And what if the webmaster of the domain doesnt respond to the request for
removal of information.

IS there something that say's what is and isn't able to be published
"personal information" on the internet.

If someone can reply I'd appreciate it.

Seeking council.

Jason Burton - Starloop Security
security@starloop.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 22:41:07 +0800
To: scoops 
Subject: Re: DBS, Privacy, Money Laundering nonsense.
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 2:22 AM -0500 on 11/14/98, scoops wrote:


> At 12:43 AM 11/14/98 -0500, Robert Hettinga wrote in Response to Black
> Unicorn:
> >--- begin forwarded text

Oops. Looks like you weren't watching your >'s :-). You're actually
responding to Unicorn, not me. *He* was responding to something Todd Boyle
said (well, probably trolled, given his past behavior :-)) on the DBS list.

A sad story, though...

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 00:00:14 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Privacy and the internet (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811141538.JAA03813@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 04:46:03 -0500
> From: Jason Burton 
> Subject: Privacy and the internet

> 
> Seeking council.
> 

That's exactly what you should do, get a lawyer.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Eric Cordian 
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 01:07:17 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Rivest Patent
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199811141648.KAA27226@wire.insync.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Vin writes:

> On the other hand, it seems to me unreasonable, willfully ill-informed,
> and/or  malovelent to declare -- in the face of several judicial rulings
> which have firmly ratified the RSA PKC patent -- that  "prior art" exists
> which should have invalidated that patent.  Horseshit!

Judicial rulings notwithstanding, a description of that which is now known
as RSA Public Key Cryptography was published in a book of algorithms which
pre-dated by quite a few years its patenting and commercial promotion by
the current patent holders.  That exponentiation modulo the product of two
distinct odd primes was not easily reversable given knowlege of the
modulus and the exponent was hardly a closely guarded mathematical secret,
even decades before this fact was employed by cryptographers. 

All of this was extensively discussed here on Cypherpunks back when
disputes over the RSA patent were newsworthy, and I suggest you grep the
archives for more specifics. 

My point was that the US is one of the few countries to permit the
patenting of abstract mathematics, albeit it under the guise of some
practical "method and apparatus" jargon.  The fact that the patent
couldn't be successfully challenged even though its mathematical
underpinnings were well known years prior reflects badly only upon the
notion of mathematical patents, and hardly refutes the facts in evidence. 

> Stanford and Cylink couldn't find it, despite a highly motivated and
> well-funded search. They doubtless would have paid you handsomely for
> your evidence and definitive testimony, but you missed your chance. 

Again, (patent not invalidated) != (no prior art)

But then, I'm sure you knew that. 

> Now you'll -- collectively, Sirs? -- just have to settle for being
> another cadre in the crowd that hoots and sneers at Ron Rivest whenever
> he comes up with something new which significantly enhances our
> cryptographic arsenal (and has the gall to patent it or otherwise claim
> IP ownership.) 

One "foo on that" at the notion of patenting mathematics in general, and
of patenting ciphers employing data dependent rotates in particular,
hardly constitutes hooting and sneering directed at Ron Rivest, whose work
is greatly respected in the cryptographic community.

But then, I'm sure you knew that too. 

I'm also pleased to report that the DES Analytic Crack Project is plodding
along towards its goal of an algebraic inverse to DES. 

While the project will generate $10k in sponsorship money when fully
subscribed, we have started it off with a much smaller number of sponsors,
as quite a few potential sponsors have indicated an interest in seeing
some preliminary research results prior to remitting funds. 

Since we are not hurting for funds at the moment, we have decided to
devote 100% of our effort to the project at this time, and will probably
not have a further "pledge break" until 8-round DES bites the dust. Then
we will try to get the project fully subscribed, do the 16-round crack,
and write up the final report. 

-- 
Sponsor the DES Analytic Crack Project
http://www.cyberspace.org/~enoch/crakfaq.html




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Todd Boyle" 
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 03:49:00 +0800
To: "dbs" 
Subject: RE: DBS, Privacy, Money Laundering nonsense.
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <000001be1005$2f0dff80$0100a8c0@P180.Workgroup>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>Oops. Looks like you weren't watching your >'s :-). You're actually
>responding to Unicorn, not me. *He* was responding to something Todd Boyle
>said (well, probably trolled, given his past behavior :-)) on the DBS list.

I don't altogether enjoy living in the world I've created.  My
intent in posting my ideas is so that they'll either be verified,
or be neutralized or corrected by enzymes on your excellent list!  

But I'm still stuck on these points:

 * Thieves exist in large numbers, throughout the world including my
     own immediate area.  Many more potential thieves in line, behind them.

 * If thieves could hide the money they stole, there would be substantial
    increase in frequency and severity of theft; mostly fraud, employee
    embezzlement, and white collar theft but also blatant scams and
    grift that is impractical today.  We're already seeing annual increases
    in embezzlement in the Seattle area from 10-50% over the last 10 years,
    getting similar to the rates around Los Angeles, for example.

 * Reducing trackability of money increases the severity and frequency
    of collusive crimes.  Large-scale political corruption, kickbacks
    and monopolies in the commercial sector, and a whole range of
    outright criminal blackmail become harder to prosecute.  With
    DBS you wouldn't be able to prove a damned thing.

 * The biggest single financial problem I have is mandatory levies
     (tax, utilities, monopolies) by the corrupt government. Your
     DBS will make this much worse by making it even easier to
     channel cash to politicians.

 * Fraud, embezzlement and corruption are in riotous equilibrium.  DBS
     reduces pressure on laundering, requiring other measures that hit
     my civil liberties somewhere else (physical IDs, cops, etc.)

 * Untraceable money *obviously* reduces tax collections.  What the IRS
     fails to collect from tax dodgers, eventually, I must pay more.

You seem to have a subconscious belief that DBS will shrink the government
sector.  This is a false assumption.  The government long ago achieved the
power to tax *as much as it wants*.  There is no natural immunity in our
culture or legal system.

The public sector has stabilized at 25% or 35% of the GNP, which is
apparently the maximum the animal can tolerate without falling over dead
(people striking, quitting work, and business moving overseas.)

Gimmicks like DBS will certainly not reduce the public sector in our
lifetimes. It will require an evolution in individual awareness and
behavior.

In mean time, managing the out-of-control government sector is your civic
duty, to your less intelligent wives, pensioners, and children and
neighbors. The preferred way to manage the governmt is the democratic
process, and public discourse and debate such as this list.

Breaking ranks and disobeying the law breeds further breakdown in
obedience of the whole legal framework.  There are lots of dumber and more
dangerous elements in the population.  The system is already *quite*
unfair to them.  When the superintelligent can steal through high-tech
money schemes, and the wealthy classes violate their own legal framework,
why shouldn't the thief just come and steal our cars, or fuck your daughter?
Frankly, we need laws, a lot more than we need DBS.

Now, what is your solution to prevent the use of DBS in large-scale
financial fraud, political payoffs, etc.?   Or is that outside your
scope, and such problems should be solved by wiretaps, surveillance or
what?

Don't tell me these problems are minor or will just disappear! Do you
know how much money is already wasted on audits and law enforcement in
this country?  Auditing is already hideously expensive, and the only
solid facts in the entire audit process are the goddamn bank statements.

You need a coherent argument on this problem.  You need measures within
the DBS technology itself, to address the need.  Opponents of DBS will
raise all these demagogic arguments.  You'll be hooted off the podium.

I fear you'll end up damaging the reputation of legitimate forms of
peer-to-peer electronic payments, which are badly needed in the economy.

Todd Boyle CPA   Kirkland WA   tboyle@rosehill.net




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: garp@chadmarc.com
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 02:06:54 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Welcome to the Risk Professionals Discussion Area!
Message-ID: <199811141736.MAA00113@ns.bccg.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Thank you for participating in our conferencing system, John.

Please save this message.  It contains important information,
such as your login name and password (see below).

Our web conferencing offers online Help for all major features.
If you have questions about a feature, look for the help button
on the menubar.

Here is your login information.  Be sure to keep it somewhere safe!

Your Login Name: cypherpunks
Your Password: cypherpunks

You can change your password, email address, and other items
by selecting "Profiles" from the "More" button on the menubar.

Please be sure to come back and visit us at:
http://chat.bccg.com:8080/~GARP

We hope you enjoy participating in our conferences!

Sincerely,
garp@chadmarc.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 02:27:13 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Will Price (NAI employee) on KRA
In-Reply-To: <199811141455.OAA30151@server.eternity.org>
Message-ID: <199811141757.MAA12938@camel7.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Forwarded:

To: ukcrypto@maillist.ox.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Escrow - news
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 15:42:26 +0000
From: Ross Anderson 
:

Will Price writes:

> NAI being listed on the KRA page is *solely* a result of our TIS
> acquisition

On his most recent speaking tour of Europe, at which he promoted 
PGP v 6, Phil Zimmermann assured us categorically that NAI had at
his insistence withdrawn from the KRA.

It now appears that either (1) he lied to us (2) he was himself
lied to by NAI management or (3) NAI has rejoined.

> I really doubt anyone here actually called some KRA person and 
> officially renewed our membership.  Frankly, I doubt anyone
> here actually knows who to talk to there -- if there even is a
> "there".

You marketed version 6 of your product on the back of a claim that
you'd left the KRA. Yet NAI is now listed on the KRA website as a
member, and this is clearly doing your product material harm. Either
it's not true that you're a member, in which case your lawyers will be
able to extract so much money from KRA that it goes out of business,
whereupon the world will cheer and buy your product, or it is true, in
which case the damage will continue.

There is a deeper issue for the community here. For many years we have
tended to trust products because we know the technical people
involved. This has been the foundation for trust of other kinds. For
example, some years ago, a certain country's foreign ministry asked me
for a reference on Entrust prior to buying their products; my response
was that I knew both Paul van Oorschot and Mike Wiener, and in my
opinion they were both very competent. As a result of this, purchasing
decisions may have been taken with a significant effect on national
intelligence, economic competitiveness and even military preparedness.
As the country in question is a NATO member, its diplomatic comsec (or
lack of it) affects the UK directly.

Now, in one weekend, we have two cases where assurances from credible
technical people turned out to be unsatisfactory. Where does that
leave us?

Since I gave that reference for Entrust, the University here has
tightened up on liability. We must take care not to give references
that are untruthful or even misleading. We are urged to err on the
side of caution. So next time a foreign ministry asks me whether
Entrust products are kosher, I probably have to reply:


`You cannot prudently trust any third party to sell you trustworthy
comsec products. Recall Britain's selling old Enigmas to allies in the
Commonwealth; think of the fuss over red-threading; check out the
trapdoor in Sesame; and read up on key escrow. The only way you can
get good kit is if you build it yourself.  If you don't have the
skills, then I suggest you get some bright graduates to check out our
PhD programme - see '

A very traditional view of the world. Has nothing really changed since
the 1960's?

Ross

----------

Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 14:55:45 GMT
Message-Id: <199811141455.OAA30151@server.eternity.org>
From: Adam Back 
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Will Price (NAI employee) on KRA

This comment on NAI's KRA(P) membership by Will Price
, a crypto type who works for PGP was forwarded to the
ukcrypto list by Ian Goodyer (uk-crypto list admin).  Not sure where
it was posted originally, or perhaps Will asked Ian to forwarded it.

Adam

------- Start of forwarded message -------
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 11:43:07 +0000
To: ukcrypto@maillist.ox.ac.uk
From: "Ian D. Goodyer" 
Subject: Re: Escrow - news

Here is a response from Will Price who was formally from PGP inc and now of
course is with NAI.   ian

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I've commented about this on this list before I believe.  This appears
to be a case of really old news suddenly being dredged up for no
apparent wholesome reason -- which strikes me as quite odd because
Wired was apparently so eager to break this ancient story that they
didn't wait to ask anyone from NAI about it.

NAI being listed on the KRA page is *solely* a result of our TIS
acquisition.  I really doubt anyone here actually called some KRA
person and officially renewed our membership.  Frankly, I doubt anyone
here actually knows who to talk to there -- if there even is a
"there".  As I have said before, due to the TIS acquisition, NAI now
has a bunch of products which contain key escrow features. 
Eliminating or modifying these features such that they work in a less
big brother-like fashion will take significant time -- indeed entire
TIS products were based around managing key escrow infrastructures. 
Don't get me wrong, TIS had a lot of other great products, but it will
take time to redesign and rethink some of them in the context of
export and key escrow.  I'm not sure there's much point in withdrawing
from KRA when those products still exist.

These issues have no effect whatsoever on the PGP group.  As always,
we continue to publish full source code which effectively solves all
the export issues for us.


Robert Guerra wrote:
> I just picked this up from another mailing list that I am on.
Perhaps the
> folks at NAI can clarify things?
> 
> - ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 10:55:06 +0000
> From: Ross Anderson 
> To: ukcrypto@maillist.ox.ac.uk
> Subject: Escrow - news
> 
> (1) Network Associates has quietly rejoined the Key Recovery
Alliance
> - - see http://www.kra.org.

- -- Will
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP 6.0.2

iQA/AwUBNkySo6y7FkvPc+xMEQIuygCfYosXGISVrKd4dYWwM8xOrVdd4WAAn3dT
XvDG6FMapZpjmvjucF67fwM5
=xa+R
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


Will Price, Architect/Sr. Mgr., PGP Client Products
Total Network Security Division
Network Associates, Inc.
Direct  (408)346-5906
Cell/VM (650)533-0399


PGPkey: 
------- End of forwarded message -------






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 02:20:42 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Will Price (NAI employee) on KRA
In-Reply-To: <199811141455.OAA30151@server.eternity.org>
Message-ID: <199811141804.NAA20445@camel7.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 09:57:53 -0800 (PST)
:
To: jya@pipeline.com
From: prz@pgp.com (Philip Zimmermann (via an auto-responder))
Subject: Got your message
:

Thanks for your message.  Sometimes it takes a day or two to get through 
all my email.  I will get back to you, or have someone from our company 
get back to you, as quickly as I can.   Thanks for your patience.  If you 
need to speak with someone immediately, please call our corporate offices 
at 408 988-3832 [called, got voicemail: closed until Monday.].  If you need 
to contact me by phone, see the contact information on my web page at 

http://www.pgp.com/phil.

In December 1997 my company, Pretty Good Privacy Inc, was acquired by 
McAfee Associates, which is now known as Network Associates [ref. kra.org].
If you haven't seen it already, you should take a look at the latest 
version of PGP, version 6, available in both commercial and freeware 
forms, for Windows and Mac, available for Web downloading from our 
company's web site at http://www.pgp.com.

The best site with the best all-around information about PGP, including
frequently asked questions, is http://www.pgpi.com, which is in Norway.  
They have information on where to get PGP if you live outside of the US or 
Canada, for commercial or freeware use.  They also provide pointers into 
our own domestic web site here to help you easily find where to get the 
latest versions of PGP in the US, for business or freeware.  They also 
tell you how to download the PGP source code for peer review, and where to 
get the Unix versions.  You can also download PGPfone from there.

-Philip Zimmermann





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Black Unicorn" 
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 05:11:46 +0800
To: 
Subject: RE: DBS, Privacy, Money Laundering nonsense.
In-Reply-To: <000001be1005$2f0dff80$0100a8c0@P180.Workgroup>
Message-ID: <001001be1010$5fda8470$1c86e5cf@svb.schloss.li>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> >Oops. Looks like you weren't watching your >'s :-). You're actually
> >responding to Unicorn, not me. *He* was responding to something
> Todd Boyle
> >said (well, probably trolled, given his past behavior :-)) on
> the DBS list.
>
> I don't altogether enjoy living in the world I've created.  My
> intent in posting my ideas is so that they'll either be verified,
> or be neutralized or corrected by enzymes on your excellent list!  
>
> But I'm still stuck on these points:

Ok let's work on them:

>  * Thieves exist in large numbers, throughout the world including my
>      own immediate area.  Many more potential thieves in line,
> behind them.
>
>  * If thieves could hide the money they stole, there would be substantial
>     increase in frequency and severity of theft; mostly fraud, employee
>     embezzlement, and white collar theft but also blatant scams and
>     grift that is impractical today.

You miss the point entirely.  Thieves CAN hide the money they stole today.
It's not even particularly hard.  See my previous post for an idea of how
hard it is to detect a thief hiding his money.

>We're already seeing annual
> increases
>     in embezzlement in the Seattle area from 10-50% over the last
> 10 years,
>     getting similar to the rates around Los Angeles, for example.

And so...?

Classic logical flaw.  After the fact, therefore because of the fact.

High tech is available now that wasn't before
The rate of embezzlement is higher
therefore high tech is to blame.

Clearly, therefore:

Merlyn waved his hands
the moon passed before the sun
therefore Merlyn caused the moon to pass before the sun.

I'll wager the percentage of embezzlement in your area has increased in
rough proportion to the growth of the local economy.  Check for me and get
back to us.

>  * Reducing trackability of money increases the severity and frequency
>     of collusive crimes.  Large-scale political corruption, kickbacks
>     and monopolies in the commercial sector, and a whole range of
>     outright criminal blackmail become harder to prosecute.  With
>     DBS you wouldn't be able to prove a damned thing.

You could hardly reduce the trackability of money anymore today.  A 500
million dollar fraud transferred through the world financial system hides in
about 20 trillion in funds which move every day.  That FinCEN actually can
detect crime via its network is a fantasy.  I've just been over the math
which demonstrates how difficult a task it really is.  Review it.  Crimes
are discovered and caught by good police work.  The fact that the
constitution makes "good police work" that much harder is a price to live
with in a free society.  Choose your poison.  Clearly technologies like
wiretaps and funds tracking are sold as investigatory tactics which result
in new cases being brought, but (at least in the case of money laundering)
this just isn't the case.  It's simply not supported by the numbers.  What
you don't hear today is how many cases get dropped because of lack of
evidence with plain ole banking today.  It's painfully easy to make money
vanish.

Given that a police state has the lowest incidence of crime you need to make
a fundamental decision about what kind of world you want to live in.  A
story for your consideration in the meantime:

The AIDS rate in Cuba is a fraction of the AIDS rate in the rest of the
world.  This despite the fact that prostitution is rampant, and Cuba is a
third (even fourth) world country.  Why is this so?  Because Castro ordered
all HIV+ citizens into HIV camps and isolated them from the rest of the
population immediately, like "civilized" countries used to do with Scarlet
and Yellow fever before people infected with a life threatening disease
became a minority group worthy of political protection.

So is it worth the price?

Perhaps you view the threat of DBS as so significant that it requires
dramatic, even draconian measures to prevent its adoption.  Unfortunately,
you have painted yourself into a corner because DBS and cash are identical
except with respect to medium of exchange.

>  * The biggest single financial problem I have is mandatory levies
>      (tax, utilities, monopolies) by the corrupt government. Your
>      DBS will make this much worse by making it even easier to
>      channel cash to politicians.

Then, by your argument, we should ban Cash as well.  What if I told you that
a new technology would allow armed robbers unprecedented mobility, the
ability to escape the scene of a crime in an instant, and provided them with
the ability to traverse long distances in making their escape while
protected from scrutiny.  What if this same technology gave them the means
to conceal from the view of any law enforcement the proceeds of their heist
and could make their path entirely untraceable to police?

Well, I suppose automobiles are going to have to go.

>  * Fraud, embezzlement and corruption are in riotous equilibrium.  DBS
>      reduces pressure on laundering, requiring other measures that hit
>      my civil liberties somewhere else (physical IDs, cops, etc.)

Again, there is no pressure on laundering today.  It's a trivial exercise.
Money laundering regulation has bred a cadre of professional launderers.
Even by the best numbers the authorities seize less than 0.006% of illicit
funds and spend 20000 times what they seize to seize it.

>  * Untraceable money *obviously* reduces tax collections.  What the IRS
>      fails to collect from tax dodgers, eventually, I must pay more.

Vote with your feet.  (I don't really agree with this assessment, but
regardless, if you believe it, reduce your tax burden by expatriating).
Again, taxes in countries with less financial regulation (almost all of the
non-U.S. countries) are typically less, if not substantially less than in
the U.S.  How do you explain this if your point is true?

> You seem to have a subconscious belief that DBS will shrink the government
> sector.  This is a false assumption.  The government long ago achieved the
> power to tax *as much as it wants*.  There is no natural immunity in our
> culture or legal system.

Again, then move.  I don't really care what DBS does to the government
sector.  I only care what it does to the costs of transactions.  I handle
the political and regulatory issues by moving.  (You might take John
Walker's example.  He bailed primarily to avoid the "bullshit factor" not
the tax).

> The public sector has stabilized at 25% or 35% of the GNP, which is
> apparently the maximum the animal can tolerate without falling over dead
> (people striking, quitting work, and business moving overseas.)

Uh, all those conditions are present today.

> Gimmicks like DBS will certainly not reduce the public sector in our
> lifetimes. It will require an evolution in individual awareness and
> behavior.

Again, see above.

> In mean time, managing the out-of-control government sector is your civic
> duty, to your less intelligent wives, pensioners, and children and
> neighbors. The preferred way to manage the governmt is the democratic
> process, and public discourse and debate such as this list.

Again, vote with your feet.  I'm too busy for civil disobedience, voting in
sham elections, and the two party system.  Grass roots political activism
changes nothing in my experience.  Even if it did, I still just don't have
the time.  I prefer supporting political processes that are forward looking
and interested in DBS.  These do exist.

> Breaking ranks and disobeying the law breeds further breakdown in
> obedience of the whole legal framework.

Which laws?  Those of the United States?  Well get cracking, the U.S. has
195 countries to invade, overthrow and pacify to harmonize foreign ideas
about how things should be done with the much more enlightened and effective
crime preventing methods prevailing in the United States today.  Stop
laughing, the integrity of the whole legal framework is at stake.

Actually, after some reflection I think that you're right.  Now if only we
could get all those blacks back in line we could get some real law and order
done.  How did we allow their civil disobedience to gain them anything?  Are
we going to _reward_ that kind of behavior?  It's a threat to the entire
system.  Now where did I put my sheets?

> There are lots of dumber and more
> dangerous elements in the population.  The system is already *quite*
> unfair to them.  When the superintelligent can steal through high-tech
> money schemes, and the wealthy classes violate their own legal framework,
> why shouldn't the thief just come and steal our cars, or fuck
> your daughter?

I see.  So DBS is going to be responsible for an increase in property and
violent crimes?  DBS will cause the poor to rise up because "Da Man" has
more power now?

Of course this is silliness of the highest degree.  The tendency to
overstate the power of DBS in here seems to be an affliction of both sides
now.  It's a technology, not a way of life.  Get over it.

> Frankly, we need laws, a lot more than we need DBS.

I won't even comment on the need for yet more regulation other than to say
that healthcare in e.g. Switzerland is a fraction of the cost of health care
in e.g. the United States because physicians don't have to carry $10 million
dollars in liability insurance.

> Now, what is your solution to prevent the use of DBS in large-scale
> financial fraud, political payoffs, etc.?   Or is that outside your
> scope, and such problems should be solved by wiretaps, surveillance or
> what?

What's your solution to prevent the use of cash and international wire
transfers in large-scale financial fraud, political payoffs, etc.?  Or is
that outside your scope?

> Don't tell me these problems are minor or will just disappear!

I'm telling you they already exist.  What are you going to do about it?
You're an accountant.  You should have answers for these things.

> Do you
> know how much money is already wasted on audits and law enforcement in
> this country?  Auditing is already hideously expensive, and the only
> solid facts in the entire audit process are the goddamn bank statements.

I think you might find that the cost of auditing is directly linked to the
likelihood of a civil suit against the auditors in the United States.
Address tort reform if you want to impact that.  You're a CPA, get cracking.

These aren't issues that are specific to DBS, they are endemic to the
current system

> You need a coherent argument on this problem.  You need measures within
> the DBS technology itself, to address the need.  Opponents of DBS will
> raise all these demagogic arguments.  You'll be hooted off the podium.

In the U.S. perhaps.  I'm not a resident there anymore so I could care less.
Any DBS system can be made to comply with country laws based on internet
address location or the front end dealer's compliance requirements.  The
underwriter in the system passes the responsibility for compliance to the
local issuer, which is as it should be.  What's the big deal?  You think a
global system has to comply with the highest level of regulation of any of
the participating actors...?  Of course that's nonsense.  The United States,
much as it might like to be, is not the final authority on world financial
regulation and is unlikely to be any time in the near future (thank god).

Opponents of DBS may raise all these arguments but they, and you, still have
not addressed the basic point that all these things are already possible
with cash.  Will they ban cash, and if so when and by what means?

> I fear you'll end up damaging the reputation of legitimate forms of
> peer-to-peer electronic payments, which are badly needed in the economy.

I'm unconcerned about "legitimate forms of peer-to-peer electronic payments"
because I am unaware of any.  Even mondex isn't truly peer to peer.

The silliness quotient of this discussion exceeded my tolerance level after
the "evils of civil disobedience" discussion.  (I also don't read
cypherpunks anymore so I won't see replies not copied to me personally).




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 23:18:46 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Will Price (NAI employee) on KRA
Message-ID: <199811141455.OAA30151@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




This comment on NAI's KRA(P) membership by Will Price
, a crypto type who works for PGP was forwarded to the
ukcrypto list by Ian Goodyer (uk-crypto list admin).  Not sure where
it was posted originally, or perhaps Will asked Ian to forwarded it.

Adam

------- Start of forwarded message -------
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 11:43:07 +0000
To: ukcrypto@maillist.ox.ac.uk
From: "Ian D. Goodyer" 
Subject: Re: Escrow - news

Here is a response from Will Price who was formally from PGP inc and now of
course is with NAI.   ian

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I've commented about this on this list before I believe.  This appears
to be a case of really old news suddenly being dredged up for no
apparent wholesome reason -- which strikes me as quite odd because
Wired was apparently so eager to break this ancient story that they
didn't wait to ask anyone from NAI about it.

NAI being listed on the KRA page is *solely* a result of our TIS
acquisition.  I really doubt anyone here actually called some KRA
person and officially renewed our membership.  Frankly, I doubt anyone
here actually knows who to talk to there -- if there even is a
"there".  As I have said before, due to the TIS acquisition, NAI now
has a bunch of products which contain key escrow features. 
Eliminating or modifying these features such that they work in a less
big brother-like fashion will take significant time -- indeed entire
TIS products were based around managing key escrow infrastructures. 
Don't get me wrong, TIS had a lot of other great products, but it will
take time to redesign and rethink some of them in the context of
export and key escrow.  I'm not sure there's much point in withdrawing
from KRA when those products still exist.

These issues have no effect whatsoever on the PGP group.  As always,
we continue to publish full source code which effectively solves all
the export issues for us.


Robert Guerra wrote:
> I just picked this up from another mailing list that I am on.
Perhaps the
> folks at NAI can clarify things?
> 
> - ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 10:55:06 +0000
> From: Ross Anderson 
> Reply-To: ukcrypto@maillist.ox.ac.uk
> To: ukcrypto@maillist.ox.ac.uk
> Subject: Escrow - news
> 
> (1) Network Associates has quietly rejoined the Key Recovery
Alliance
> - - see http://www.kra.org.

- -- Will
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP 6.0.2

iQA/AwUBNkySo6y7FkvPc+xMEQIuygCfYosXGISVrKd4dYWwM8xOrVdd4WAAn3dT
XvDG6FMapZpjmvjucF67fwM5
=xa+R
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


Will Price, Architect/Sr. Mgr., PGP Client Products
Total Network Security Division
Network Associates, Inc.
Direct  (408)346-5906
Cell/VM (650)533-0399


PGPkey: 
------- End of forwarded message -------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 04:34:49 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: DBS, Privacy, Money Laundering nonsense.
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 15:55:00 -0400
To: tboyle@rosehill.net
Cc: dbs@philodox.com
Subject: Re: DBS, Privacy, Money Laundering nonsense.
Mime-Version: 1.0
From: Ryan Lackey 
Sender: 
Precedence: Bulk
List-Subscribe: 
X-Web-Archive: http://www.philodox.com/dbs-archive/

Also Sprach Todd Boyle (tboyle@rosehill.net):

>
>  * If thieves could hide the money they stole, there would be substantial
>     increase in frequency and severity of theft;

I think this is definitely true.  Particularly if it is *easy* to hide
the money stolen, as criminals may be expert in a particular field of
crime that is *not* financial -- it's already easy for a white-collar
criminal to hide money, using the same skills used in white-collar crimes
of other sorts, but not so easy for an armed robber.

>  * Reducing trackability of money increases the severity and frequency
>     of collusive crimes.

Reducing trackability and improving the velocity of money *does*
do this, but it's a side effect of the more important (and wider spread)
effect of useful forms of money: increasing the severity and frequency
of all kinds of collusion and cooperation!  This is what money is
for -- exchange.  That criminal exchange uses DBS is just saying that
criminal exchange is a form of exchange.
>
> In mean time, managing the out-of-control government sector is your civic
> duty, to your less intelligent wives,

Heh...I'd be afraid of saying this if I were married or ever planning to
be :)  On an archived list, no less... :)

>
> You need a coherent argument on this problem.  You need measures within
> the DBS technology itself, to address the need.  Opponents of DBS will
> raise all these demagogic arguments.  You'll be hooted off the podium.

This technology is layered (ooh, bad word to use in relation to money and
payment systems :).

I think you will agree with me that the
correct place for financial restraints (particularly voluntary ones,
for auditing purposes, which IMO are the most important -- it allows you
to say you are doing something, specify how it can be measured, and then
have it measured, rather than just having some vague after-the-fact threat
of enforcement if they catch you) on digital token money is not at
the following layers:

* Sub-atomic layer
* Atomic layer
* Hardware layer
* Network connection layer

and you seem to be making the case that it doesn't belong at the human/legal
layer.  However, there are two layers in the middle:

* application (core DBS protocols, etc.)
and
* presentation (graphical clients, etc.)

I believe the correct place for any voluntary restraints on DBS money is
not at the DBS protocol layer, but at a higher level.  This can be
built into the clients people choose to use for managing their money,
generate auditing reports, etc.  This provides people with the freedom
to use clients tailored to their legal requirements -- a corporation's
internal financial system should be far more complicated and constrained
than my personal wallet -- and makes it relatively easy for everything
to interoperate.

You can even design things at the levels higher than the DBS level to
escrow parts of coins with third parties, this requiring their participation
or approval for any transaction -- sort of a "registered DBS system".  If
you believe taxes are a worthwhile thing, a government could mandage the
use of such a system where the IRS was a party to each and every transaction.
This would work perfectly well technically, and would not compromise the
integrity of the protocols -- it's just a business decision on the part of
an issuer of electronic cash.  It's easy to see how this could work with
insurance schemes, split control of coins, etc.

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 04:34:55 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: DBS, Privacy, Money Laundering nonsense.
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


From: "Michael Alexander" 
To: 
Subject: Re: DBS, Privacy, Money Laundering nonsense.
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 20:52:53 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.0810.800
Sender: bounce-dcsb@ai.mit.edu
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: "Michael Alexander" 

>From: "Black Unicorn" 
> That's on the order of $600
>trillion per year, just in SWIFT.  (Add another $1.3 billion for CHIPS and
>$989 million for Fedwire daily.  Oh, don't forget the foreign exchange

as a minor correction, SWIFT 's main service is to exchange payment
messages to feed into e.g. Fedwire or CHIPS so that would be double
counting

>The payment system today eats up over 1.5% of the GNP primarily because of
>nonsense regulations like CTR's and other transaction reporting
...
>1% of the GNP.  Instant 1% growth for changing a system of clearing.  Think
>about that for awhile.

slowly on that: payment systems costs represent what economists call
'specific taxes' that is they inflict deadweight losses on the economy. More
efficient payment instruments such as some being based on bearer
certificates would per se lower GDP but lead to higher demand in theory.
Its effect would be as instant as a cut in other broad ones such as income
or capital gains that is it involves lag.

On the actual percentage of payment systems costs as % of GDP my
estimates are way higher. By simply taking clearing float days of the major
retail, business and interbank instruments, the figure is more like >2%
with current (low) interest for the U.S. and even higher for Europe. This
does
not take into account that a more efficient payment system with a higher
money velocity would lower the demand for transaction money among other
effects.

Michael






For help on using this list (especially unsubscribing), send a message to
"dcsb-request@ai.mit.edu" with one line of text: "help".

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 10:03:39 +0800
To: j orlin grabbe 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Saturday 11/14/98 6:13 PM

John Young http://www.jya.com/index.htm
J Orlin Grabbe http://www.aci.net/kalliste/

As a result of  jy's persuasive arguments http://jya.com/whpfiles.htm,
we are going to put up a web site.

But unlike you-all's sites ours will be somewhat positive

1  masm mixed language programming ... and Microsoft
    bugs
2  8032 forth programming and hardware
3  pc hardware
4  pro se litigation against the government
5  cypto nonsense
6  ...

But, most important, we have learned by your pioneering
web information dissemination efforts.  And mistakes at 
other websites.  Like bouncing balls.

You guys, in my opinion, are the some of the most brilliant, 
perhaps with the exception of  the  X-rated sites, at getting 
the info out there.

And yes, we will use THUMBNAIL photos.  Of schematics,
main boards, .... etc.

Simplicity exudes brilliance.  Perhaps there is a converse?

Thoughtfully, I hope
bill





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Albert P. Franco, II" 
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 03:21:12 +0800
To: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home)
Subject: Re: SIGH... NOT!! THC tainted oranges
In-Reply-To: <199811131959.LAA19533@rainbow.thinkthink.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981114194714.0093bd00@apf2.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Nobody that has been on this list very long could have been duped...We all
know that some group of MIB types would have swooped down on the guy, and
he would have been just another heart attack statistic...


At 14:49 13/11/98 -0600, you wrote:
>I was not duped! In fact, I pointed the hoax out.
>
>Anyway, I feel for you/.
>
>igor
>
>cypherpu wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I just spoke by phone with john(author of the article in question)
>>  at the sfbay guardian
>> The article was distributed without the satire labeling that was
>> present at the website... The article is Satire :(
>> 
>>      duped and disappointed :(
>> 
>
>
>
>	- Igor.
>




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Blanc" 
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 12:30:08 +0800
To: 
Subject: RE: y2k+nukes===???? (drudge)
In-Reply-To: <199811130049.QAA18857@netcom13.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <000201be104e$53bf6be0$398195cf@blanc>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>From Vladimir Z. Nurid:

: Far more likely, however, is the prospect of a leader, 
: under pressure from hairtrigger response mechanisms, 
: pressing the nuclear button on the basis of inaccurate
: data." 
.................................................


So what are your plans for Dec 31, 1999, VZN.   
Doing anything special?


   ..
Blanc 
I'm gonna buyme a Ford Truck 'n cruiseitupndown thu ro-oad....




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 10:34:09 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: NSA on OS Flaws
Message-ID: <199811150212.VAA01270@camel8.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



An NSA team presented at NISSC98 in October
"The Inevitability of Failure: The Flawed Assumption 
of Security in Modern Computing Environments:"

  http://jya.com/paperF1.htm  (62K)

  Abstract

  Although public awareness of the need for security in 
  computing systems is growing rapidly, current efforts 
  to provide security are unlikely to succeed. Current 
  security efforts suffer from the flawed assumption 
  that adequate security can be provided in applications 
  with the existing security mechanisms of mainstream 
  operating systems. In reality, the need for secure 
  operating systems is growing in today's computing 
  environment due to substantial increases in connectivity 
  and data sharing. The goal of this paper is to motivate 
  a renewed interest in secure operating systems so that 
  future security efforts may build on a solid foundation. 
  This paper identifies several secure operating system 
  features which are lacking in mainstream operating 
  systems, argues that these features are necessary to 
  adequately protect general application-space security 
  mechanisms, and provides concrete examples of how 
  current security solutions are critically dependent on 
  these features.

  Keywords: secure operating systems, mandatory security, 
  trusted path, Java, Kerberos, IPSEC, SSL, firewalls.

-----

The paper advocates greater research on vulnerabilities
of operating systems which allow malicious attackers to
circumvent application-level security, including 
cryptographic protection. Ways to get around hardware
and software crypto are outlined.

Covert channels are a prime concern, as well as benign
use inadverdently allowing malicious intrusion.

An extensive list of references trace the twenty-five 
year history of OS flaws and examine why so little has 
been done to correct known deficiencies which undermine 
seemingly unbreachable applications.

Readings about DTOS, Fluke, Flash and other developments
of the NSA-sponsored Synergy program are illuminating.

The recent republication of early compsec documents by
CSRC is appropriate to this topic, particularly, "Subversion:
The Neglected Aspect of Computer Security," by Philip Myer,
June 1980, a thesis at NPS:

   http://csrc.nist.gov/publications/history/myer80.pdf

Not that NSA would ever exploit OS weaknesses not warned 
about.

-----

Thanks to JM/RH for pointing to the NISSC papers.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 12:31:28 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Test [no reply]
Message-ID: <199811150416.WAA05933@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Test




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 12:38:03 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Test 2 [no reply, loop test, last one]
Message-ID: <199811150419.WAA06039@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Test 2




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Paul H. Merrill" 
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 12:11:25 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re:
In-Reply-To: <199811150307.EAA08300@replay.com>
Message-ID: <364E789E.850EA9CD@ACM.Org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Anonymous wrote:
<>
> failed TCSEC/Rainbow testing program.  I say "failed"
> because it hasn't caught on in the private sector, it's expensive and,
> of course, the laughable "C2 in '92."

While I was never a great fan of the Rainbow Series, to say that it
failed because it hasn't caught on in the private sector is not holding
very close to the point of it all. The "typical" private sector approach
to security is to do nothing 'til the hackers come over the iInternet
and wreak havoc the throw up a proxie server/firewall and go back to
normal practices until the next "event" and try to plug That Hole.

C2 by 92 was an effort on the part of the govenment/military to stop
those practices on their own parts.  True, not ompletely succesful, but
hey what the Hell, how many of the efforts by them folk are?

PHM




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 12:11:12 +0800
To: Multiple recipients of list 
Subject: hello -- do not read
Message-ID: <199811150355.WAA26773@domains.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



This is a test, this is only a test.

-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
---------------------------------------------------------------





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 08:06:29 +0800
To: aba@dcs.ex.ac.uk
Subject: TIS & PGP -- who is pulling the strings (Re: Will Price (NAI employee) on KRA)
In-Reply-To: <199811141455.OAA30151@server.eternity.org>
Message-ID: <199811142333.XAA32197@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




To comment on Will Price's comments I forwarded earlier today:

Will Price  wrote:
> I've commented about this on this list before I believe.  This appears
> to be a case of really old news suddenly being dredged up for no
> apparent wholesome reason -- which strikes me as quite odd because
> Wired was apparently so eager to break this ancient story that they
> didn't wait to ask anyone from NAI about it.

I didn't heard anything other than speculation as to whether the TIS
acquisition would result in NAI rejoining KRA.  The news is that it
now is listed again (or at least someone noticed that it is now
listed).  Perhaps I was not paying attention, but I didn't hear anyone
from PGP announce that NAI had rejoined (or automatically rejoined)
KRA as a result of TIS merger.

> NAI being listed on the KRA page is *solely* a result of our TIS
> acquisition.  I really doubt anyone here actually called some KRA
> person and officially renewed our membership.  Frankly, I doubt anyone
> here actually knows who to talk to there -- if there even is a
> "there".  

Surely some of your TIS GAKware colleagues know all about KRAP --
being major league GAKkers, and having specifically signed up in the
first place, being leading contributers to the KRAP/GAK drive effort.

> As I have said before, due to the TIS acquisition, NAI now has a
> bunch of products which contain key escrow features.  

Watch terminology here.  TIS stuff contains GAK -- "key escrow" or
"message recovery" where the government has the master keys.

All commercial PGP versions 5.x and higher contain key recovery in the
form of PGP's "Corporate Message Recovery" (CMR) design.  Even the
personal use versions know how to cooperate in providing corporate
backdoors.

Now CMR is clearly much less objectionable than TIS stuff, tho'
politically debatable I would argue.  TIS stuff is outright GAK.  But
I think part of the point of KRA was to coerce/bribe crypto companies
to demonstrate working and workable NSA master key type GAK.

The problem people have had with PGP building a CMR / CKE mechanism is
you as a side effect demonstrate a method which would be workable as
an NSA master key GAK system.  Clearly all that is missing is software
configuration and the NSA to publish a key, and a law requiring use of
it.

Yeah, OK so there was always encrypt to self, but giving the NSA
ammunition is bad (viz the quotes from US government saying that Key
Recovery works and using PGP 5.x as an example).  I think that helping
the US government claim that GAK is workable is a bad result for a
company with PGP's privacy stance to end up contributing to.

I am glad that CMR was kept out of the OpenPGP spec.

> Eliminating or modifying these features such that they work in a
> less big brother-like fashion will take significant time -- indeed
> entire TIS products were based around managing key escrow
> infrastructures.  Don't get me wrong, TIS had a lot of other great
> products, but it will take time to redesign and rethink some of them
> in the context of export and key escrow.  

Will seems to be saying here that NAI is planning to remove GAK from
the TIS products acquired in the NAI purchase of TIS.

Firstly this is interesting because I wonder who is pulling the
strings inside NAI -- consider: NAI paid a lot more for TIS than they
paid for PGP.  TIS has lots of US government defense contracts
(presumably partly as bribery for assistance to US Government with
KRAP/the GAK drive).

Secondly he comments that it will take significant time to make the
TIS products less big brother like.  I don't buy this.  You've got the
source code -- just release a patch to fill the GAK field with garbage.
Sounds like a days work tops.

> I'm not sure there's much point in withdrawing from KRA when those
> products still exist.

Sure there is.  The bad PR of being in KRAP alone should make it worth
quiting.  This was why PRZ arranged the pull out last time around.

Secondly pulling out of KRA would be a nice way to back up your claims
that NAI intends to remove the GAK from the bought TIS products.  If
NAI intends to do this, what is the point of being a member of KRA
which is all about acheiving the reverse -- about putting GAK into
products.

> These issues have no effect whatsoever on the PGP group.  

Glad to hear it.  The effect it does have is in reputation damage due
to PR fall out.  Some people may prefer not to buy from a company
supporting the US government in it's attempts to force key escrow onto
users.  NAI is pulling in two directions, TIS and KRA membership, and
PGP privacy stance.

Adam




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 12:51:13 +0800
To: Multiple recipients of list 
Subject: loop test #1
Message-ID: <199811150436.XAA27826@domains.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Loop, loop, loop

-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
---------------------------------------------------------------





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 13:12:15 +0800
To: Multiple recipients of list 
Subject: loop test #2
Message-ID: <199811150453.XAA28128@domains.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Loop test #2

-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
---------------------------------------------------------------





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 13:30:57 +0800
To: Multiple recipients of list 
Subject: loop test #3
Message-ID: <199811150503.AAA28459@domains.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Loop test #3

-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
---------------------------------------------------------------





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 14:06:22 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Could E.M. Cordian be Matt Blaze in Disguise?  (Nah!)
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



:-)

Bwahahaha!

Isn't this fun???

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga

--- begin forwarded text


X-Sender: vin@shell1.shore.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 00:31:21 -0500
To: Robert Hettinga , dcsb@ai.mit.edu
From: Vin McLellan 
Subject: Could E.M. Cordian be Matt Blaze in Disguise?  (Nah!)
Cc: Matt Blaze 
Status: U

	Out on the Cypherpunks List, "Anonymous" claimed to reveal the real
identity of E.M. Cordian, the organizer of the DES Analytical Crack. See:
http://www.cyberspace.org/~enoch/crakfaq.html

>Shouldn't we be using "Mr. Cordian's" real
>name?  Matt Blaze (mab@research.att.com), also
>occasionally known as "M.F. Tones", and even less
>often as "Mr. Rouge" (There should be an accent mark
>there actually).

	In response, Robert Hettinga  declared:

>Just to clear the air a smidge.
>
>If Matt Blaze says he's looking for an algebraic inverse to DES, I tend to
>believe him...

	Jeeze, Rob! This is your attempt to help "clear the air?"

	I do not for a moment believe that Eric Michael Cordian
 is a pseudonym for Matt Blaze !

	You should maybe query Matt directly  before
you endorse E.M. Cordian as Matt Blaze in drag. You could confuse a whole
lot of people who trust your insider knowledge of these steamy Net Affairs.

	To anyone familiar with Blaze's essays, speeches, & on-line posts,
a scan of  Mr. Codrian's FAQ and published comments should make it apparent
that this suggestion is unlikely, if not perposterous.

	The real Matt Blaze would also not be making these absurd and false
claims that some mysterious "book" describing a cryptosystem identical or
equivalent to the RSA public key cryptosystem was published "years" before
Ron Rivest, Adi Shamir and Len Adelman  first published their RSA PKC
algorithm in April, 1977.  (It's well documented in the Cypherpunk
archives, Codrian assures us;-)

	There was no such book. Cordian's statement is just not true. The
real Matt Blaze -- the guy who wrote the pithy Afterward to Schneier's
Applied Cryptography,II -- would know that this is not true.

	(Actually, I'd bet that even Robert Hettinga knows that this is
untrue.)

	Mind you, if the real Matt Blaze announced that he was seeking $500
from twenty people to fund a private research project which he felt had a
meaningful chance of casting DES as a NP-hard combinatorial problem and
attacking it with an appropriate combinatorial algorithm, I'd send a check
off tomorrow.

	The real Matt Blaze would not have 15 donors -- as Mr. Cordian
reports -- but be stimied on how to get five more.

	I wish Mr. Cordian well in his algebraic attack on DES -- but,
unfortunately, he is not the real Matt Blaze. Not even a near-clone.

	We could do with a few more professionals with Blaze's talent,
energy, and integrity in general circulation.

	Suerte,

		_Vin

-----
"Cryptography is like literacy in the Dark Ages. Infinitely potent, for
good and ill... yet basically an intellectual construct, an idea, which by
its nature will resist efforts to restrict it to bureaucrats and others who
deem only themselves worthy of such Privilege."
_ A Thinking Man's Creed for Crypto  _vbm.

 *     Vin McLellan + The Privacy Guild +     *
      53 Nichols St., Chelsea, MA 02150 USA <617> 884-5548

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 14:08:38 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Could E.M. Cordian be Matt Blaze in Disguise?  (Nah!)
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Mime-Version: 1.0
X-Sender: rah@pop.sneaker.net
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 00:47:21 -0500
To: Vin McLellan , dcsb@ai.mit.edu
From: Robert Hettinga 
Subject: Re: Could E.M. Cordian be Matt Blaze in Disguise?  (Nah!)
Cc: Matt Blaze 
Sender: bounce-dcsb@ai.mit.edu
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: Robert Hettinga 

At 12:31 AM -0500 on 11/15/98, Vin McLellan wrote:



> 	(Actually, I'd bet that even Robert Hettinga knows that this is
> untrue.)

Moi? ;-)

Now *why* would I do that to you, Vin?



Don't let those ol' Snakes of Medusa bite you, pal.

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

For help on using this list (especially unsubscribing), send a message to
"dcsb-request@ai.mit.edu" with one line of text: "help".

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 08:51:46 +0800
To: vin@shore.net
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199811150026.BAA28478@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Shouldn't we be using "Mr. Cordian's" real
name?  Matt Blaze (mab@research.att.com), also
occasionally known as "M.F. Tones", and even less
often as "Mr. Rouge" (There should be an accent mark
there actually).




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: whgiii@gulf.net
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 14:58:06 +0800
To: Multiple recipients of list 
Subject: List Test
Message-ID: <199811150631.BAA30075@domains.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Just another test, sorry.

-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
---------------------------------------------------------------





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: BMM 
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 15:55:07 +0800
To: "Paul H. Merrill" 
Subject: Re: rainbow series
In-Reply-To: <364E789E.850EA9CD@ACM.Org>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Amen.  In my experience, no network I've _ever_ been associated with
(private, public, miltary, or whatever) has ever proactively pursued a
security model.  Security has always been defined as preventing a
well-defined (and well-experienced) exploit from being repeatedly used.

Rainbow series, feh!  Even the folks who should know better call NT4 C2
compliant.  CYA is the TLA of the day.

On Sat, 14 Nov 1998, Paul H. Merrill wrote:

> Anonymous wrote:
> <>
> > failed TCSEC/Rainbow testing program.  I say "failed"
> > because it hasn't caught on in the private sector, it's expensive and,
> > of course, the laughable "C2 in '92."
> 
> While I was never a great fan of the Rainbow Series, to say that it
> failed because it hasn't caught on in the private sector is not holding
> very close to the point of it all. The "typical" private sector approach
> to security is to do nothing 'til the hackers come over the iInternet
> and wreak havoc the throw up a proxie server/firewall and go back to
> normal practices until the next "event" and try to plug That Hole.
> 
> C2 by 92 was an effort on the part of the govenment/military to stop
> those practices on their own parts.  True, not ompletely succesful, but
> hey what the Hell, how many of the efforts by them folk are?
> 
> PHM
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 11:31:08 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199811150307.EAA08300@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 09:35 PM 11/14/98 -0500, John Young  wrote:
>
>An NSA team presented at NISSC98 in October
>"The Inevitability of Failure: The Flawed Assumption 
>of Security in Modern Computing Environments:"

...

>Not that NSA would ever exploit OS weaknesses not warned 
>about.
>

	Part of the context for this:  NSA is trying to encourage their new
testing program for security products.  My feeling is that program, in
turn, is intended to preserve the spaces for all the employees
involved in the failed TCSEC/Rainbow testing program.  I say "failed"
because it hasn't caught on in the private sector, it's expensive and,
of course, the laughable "C2 in '92."  
	If you can't trust your OS, Dum-dum-Dah! NSA to the rescue with
testing!
	The new Common Criteria is to replace TCSEC/Rainbow next year, but if
it walks like a duck....





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 14:52:06 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: penis test #1
Message-ID: <199811150636.HAA23965@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



penis test one




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bruce Schneier 
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 22:31:05 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Electronic Commerce: The Future of Fraud
Message-ID: <4.0.2.19981113183112.0096f750@mail.visi.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



This appeared in my November newsletter, CRYPTO-GRAM, but I thought it
general enough interest to send it here.

Bruce


Electronic Commerce: The Future of Fraud

Fraud has been perpetrated against every commerce system man has ever
invented, from gold coin to stock certificates to paper checks to credit
cards.  Electronic commerce systems will be no different; if that's where
the money is, that's where the crime will be.  The threats are exactly the
same.

Most fraud against existing electronic commerce systems -- ATM machines,
electronic check systems, stored value tokens -- has been low tech.  No
matter how bad the cryptographic and computer security safeguards, most
criminals bypass them entirely and focus on procedural problems, human
oversight, and old-fashioned physical theft.  Why attack subtle information
security systems when you can just haul an ATM machine away in a truck?

This implies that new commerce systems don't have to be secure, but just
better than what exists.  Don't outrun the bear, just outrun the people
you're with.  Unfortunately, there are three features of electronic
commerce that are likely to make fraud more devastating.

One, the ease of automation.  The same automation that makes electronic
commerce systems more efficient than paper systems also makes fraud more
efficient.  A particular fraud that might have taken a criminal ten minutes
to execute on paper can be completed with a single keystroke, or
automatically while he sleeps.  Low-value frauds, that fell below the radar
in paper systems, become dangerous in the electronic world.  No one cares
if it is possible to counterfeit nickels.  However, if a criminal can mint
electronic nickels, he might make a million dollars in a week.  A
pickpocketing technique that works once in ten thousand tries would starve
a criminal on the streets, but he might get thirty successes a day on the net.

Two, the difficulty of isolating jurisdiction.  The electronic world is a
world without geography.  A criminal doesn't have to be physically near a
system he is defrauding; he can attack Citibank in New York from St.
Petersburg. He can jurisdiction shop, and launch his attacks from countries
with poor criminal laws, inadequate police forces, and lax extradition
treaties.

And three, the speed of propagation.  News travels fast on the Internet.
Counterfeiting paper money takes skill, equipment, and organization.  If
one or two or even a hundred people can do it, so what?  It's a crime, but
it won't affect the money supply.  But if someone figures out how to
defraud an electronic commerce system and posts a program on the Internet,
a thousand people could have it in an hour, a hundred thousand in a week.
This could easily bring down a currency.  And only the first attacker needs
skill; everyone else can just use software.  "Click here to drop the
deutsche mark."

Cryptography has the potential to make electronic commerce systems safer
than paper systems, but not in the ways most people think.  Encryption and
digital signatures are important, but secure audit trails are even more
important.  Systems based on long-term relationships, like credit cards and
checking accounts, are safer than anonymous systems like cash.  But
identity theft is so easy that systems based solely on identity are doomed.

Preventing crime in electronic commerce is important, but more important is
to be able to detect it.  We don't prevent crime in our society.  We detect
crime after the fact, gather enough evidence to convince a neutral third
party of the criminal's guilt, and hope that the punishment provides a
back-channel of prevention.  Electronic commerce systems should have the
same goals.  They should be able to detect that fraud has taken place and
finger the guilty.  And more important, they should be able to provide
irrefutable evidence that can convict the guilty in court.

Perfect solutions are not required -- there are hundred of millions of
dollars lost to credit card fraud every year -- but systems that can be
broken completely are unacceptable.  It's vital that attacks cannot be
automated and reproduced without skill. Traditionally, fraud-prevention has
been a game of catch-up.  A commerce system is introduced, a particular
type of fraud is discovered, and the system is patched.  Money is made
harder to counterfeit.  Online credit card verification makes fraud harder.
 Checks are printed on special paper that makes them harder to alter.
These patches reduce fraud for a while, until another attack is discovered.
 And the cycle continues.

The electronic world moves too fast for this cycle.  A serious flaw in an
electronic commerce system could bankrupt a company in days.  Today's
systems must anticipate future attacks.  Any successful electronic commerce
system is likely to remain in use for ten years or more.  It must be able
to withstand the future:  smarter attackers, more computational power, and
greater incentives to subvert a widespread system.  There won't be time to
upgrade them in the field.

Why Cryptography is Harder Than it Looks:
http://www.counterpane.com/whycrypto.html

Security Pitfalls in Cryptography:
http://www.counterpane.com/pitfalls.html

Subscribe to CRYPTO-GRAM:
http://www.counterpane.com/crypto-gram.html 

**********************************************************************
Bruce Schneier, President, Counterpane Systems     Phone: 612-823-1098
101 E Minnehaha Parkway, Minneapolis, MN  55419      Fax: 612-823-1590
           Free crypto newsletter.  See:  http://www.counterpane.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 22:15:09 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Could E.M. Cordian be Matt Blaze in Disguise? (Nah!)
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



:-)
--- begin forwarded text


To: Vin McLellan 
cc: Robert Hettinga , dcsb@ai.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Could E.M. Cordian be Matt Blaze in Disguise? (Nah!)
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 05:33:22 -0500
From: Matt Blaze 

That you for CCing the enclosed message.

I must admit that I'm rather puzzled by it.  This is the first I've
head of an "E.M Cordian," or for that matter "M.F. Tones" or
"Mr. Rogue."  I am quite sure, however, that I am none of these
people.  I have also never seen, or claimed to have seen, any
description of the RSA algorithm, other than the the recently
declassified public key historical material from GCHQ, that predates
R, S and A's original paper on the subject.

I don't subscribe to the cypherpunks mailing list (or, for that
matter, DCSB), and I've only just now scanned over the web page
mentioned in your message, so I'm unclear as to what might be going
on.  Perhaps someone is confused about the $7.00 "better DES
challenge" that I offered last year (which was solved this year by the
EFF DES brute force hardware).

Whatever this is about, however, I assure you that any use of my name
in connection with a solicitation for funds for some sort of
"analytical DES cracking" effort, or any suggestion that I'm involved
in such a project, is absolutely false and perhaps fraudulent.

Feel free to forward this as you see fit.

Thanks

-Matt Blaze

>	Out on the Cypherpunks List, "Anonymous" claimed to reveal the real
>identity of E.M. Cordian, the organizer of the DES Analytical Crack. See:
>http://www.cyberspace.org/~enoch/crakfaq.html
>
>>Shouldn't we be using "Mr. Cordian's" real
>>name?  Matt Blaze (mab@research.att.com), also
>>occasionally known as "M.F. Tones", and even less
>>often as "Mr. Rouge" (There should be an accent mark
>>there actually).
>
>	In response, Robert Hettinga  declared:
>
>>Just to clear the air a smidge.
>>
>>If Matt Blaze says he's looking for an algebraic inverse to DES, I tend to
>>believe him...
>
>	Jeeze, Rob! This is your attempt to help "clear the air?"
>
>	I do not for a moment believe that Eric Michael Cordian
> is a pseudonym for Matt Blaze !
>
>	You should maybe query Matt directly  before
>you endorse E.M. Cordian as Matt Blaze in drag. You could confuse a whole
>lot of people who trust your insider knowledge of these steamy Net Affairs.
>
>	To anyone familiar with Blaze's essays, speeches, & on-line posts,
>a scan of  Mr. Codrian's FAQ and published comments should make it apparent
>that this suggestion is unlikely, if not perposterous.
>
>	The real Matt Blaze would also not be making these absurd and false
>claims that some mysterious "book" describing a cryptosystem identical or
>equivalent to the RSA public key cryptosystem was published "years" before
>Ron Rivest, Adi Shamir and Len Adelman  first published their RSA PKC
>algorithm in April, 1977.  (It's well documented in the Cypherpunk
>archives, Codrian assures us;-)
>
>	There was no such book. Cordian's statement is just not true. The
>real Matt Blaze -- the guy who wrote the pithy Afterward to Schneier's
>Applied Cryptography,II -- would know that this is not true.
>
>	(Actually, I'd bet that even Robert Hettinga knows that this is
>untrue.)
>
>	Mind you, if the real Matt Blaze announced that he was seeking $500
>from twenty people to fund a private research project which he felt had a
>meaningful chance of casting DES as a NP-hard combinatorial problem and
>attacking it with an appropriate combinatorial algorithm, I'd send a check
>off tomorrow.
>
>	The real Matt Blaze would not have 15 donors -- as Mr. Cordian
>reports -- but be stimied on how to get five more.
>
>	I wish Mr. Cordian well in his algebraic attack on DES -- but,
>unfortunately, he is not the real Matt Blaze. Not even a near-clone.
>
>	We could do with a few more professionals with Blaze's talent,
>energy, and integrity in general circulation.
>
>	Suerte,
>
>		_Vin
>
>-----
>"Cryptography is like literacy in the Dark Ages. Infinitely potent, for
>good and ill... yet basically an intellectual construct, an idea, which by
>its nature will resist efforts to restrict it to bureaucrats and others who
>deem only themselves worthy of such Privilege."
>_ A Thinking Man's Creed for Crypto  _vbm.
>
> *     Vin McLellan + The Privacy Guild +     *
>      53 Nichols St., Chelsea, MA 02150 USA <617> 884-5548
>
>

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Eric Cordian 
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 01:51:46 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: DES Trolls
Message-ID: <199811151736.LAA28829@wire.insync.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Vin McLellan, apparently not satisfied with only one flame, makes this
response to a very conveniently appearing anonymous remailer troll
saying something silly about Matt Blaze:
 
> The real Matt Blaze would also not be making these absurd and false
> claims that some mysterious "book" describing a cryptosystem identical
> or equivalent to the RSA public key cryptosystem was published "years"
> before Ron Rivest, Adi Shamir and Len Adelman first published their
> RSA PKC algorithm in April, 1977.  (It's well documented in the
> Cypherpunk archives, Codrian assures us;-)
 
Here the disingenuous Vin gives his own description of my prior post,
which he then proceeds to loudly refute, and I certainly didn't use
the word "identical" or the word "equivalent." I stated that
descriptions of "that which is now known as RSA" have appeared in
print, and that the one-way characteristics of the RSA trap-door
function were also previously known.
 
The arguments for invalidation of the RSA patent were based on two
central claims.  First, that work which contained similar material was
distributed by preprint and presented at conferences more than one
year before the RSA patent was applied for.  This would include the
Diffie-Hellman paper on "Multiuser Cryptographic Techniques", the
early Merkle-Hellman work, and the Pohlig-Hellman work.
 
The second claim that may be made against RSA is that the system is
"obvious." Support for this claim may be found in books dating all the
way back to the 19th century which discuss both the cryptographic
usefulness of one-way functions, and the factorization of the product
of two primes as one example of such a function.
 
Quoting "Cyberlaw":
 
    "There are a number of references in the prior art, moreover,
     to using the problem of factoring composite numbers in
     cryptography, dating back to the 19th century.
 
    "In 1870, a book by William S. Jevons described the
     relationship of one-way functions to cryptography and went
     on to discuss specifically the factorization problem used
     to create the "trap-door" in the RSA system."
 
> There was no such book. Cordian's statement is just not true.
 
Only a complete moron would place himself in the position of trying to
prove such an all-encompassing negative.
 
> (Actually, I'd bet that even Robert Hettinga knows that this is
> untrue.)
 
People_insulted_by_Vin_in_this_thread++;
 
> The real Matt Blaze would not have 15 donors -- as Mr. Cordian reports
> -- but be stimied on how to get five more.
 
If you had correctly read the FAQ, you would see that we have 5
sponsors, and 15 open sponsorships.  We are not stimied, we are
writing and debugging many thousands of lines of extremely complex
code, and do not wish to be distracted by further marketing activities
at this time.
 
> I wish Mr. Cordian well in his algebraic attack on DES
 
All together now.  "Bwahahahahahahhahaahah!"
 
This concludes my response to Vin, who may now return to his regularly
scheduled trolling lessons.
 
Now, if this weren't all hilarious enough, Matt Blaze, who is usually
smarter than this, feels an urgent need to leap in with...
 
> Whatever this is about, however, I assure you that any use of my name
> in connection with a solicitation for funds for some sort of
> "analytical DES cracking" effort, or any suggestion that I'm involved
> in such a project, is absolutely false and perhaps fraudulent.
 
Let me state for the record that the DES Analytic Crack Project has
made no claims about any of the prople working on it, other than that
they are competent implementors of complex algorithms.  Matt Blaze is
not associated with the project, and if any other crypto notables wish
a similar public statement made about them, they have only to email
and request it.
 
Sponsorships for the project are being solicited on the basis of the
statement of work in the FAQ, and work product to date.  They are not
being solicited based on any representation that various individuals
with recognizable names are associated with the project.  Anonymous
trolls making such allegations, followed by irate rebuttals by shills,
and scientists who should know better, are clearly an attempt at
disruption.  Continued such antics will be met with an appropriate
legal response.

-- 
Sponsor the DES Analytic Crack Project
http://www.cyberspace.org/~enoch/crakfaq.html




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 01:55:58 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com
Subject: Link test [1432]
Message-ID: <199811151735.MAA05811@domains.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



hi

-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
---------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 01:43:21 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Non Explosive Weapons
Message-ID: <199811151721.MAA32349@smtp0.atl.mindspring.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Richard Danzig, new Navy Secretary, op-eds in the
NYT today about the threat of "Non Explosive Weapons 
(NEW)," posed by WMD and information warfare.

    http://jya.com/mil-panic.htm

He terms them "weapons of mass disruption" which
may lead to mass panic and will require the military and
law enforcement agencies to unite in a new kind of
US national defense, while, you bet, at the same time 
obeying law against domestic military operations.

In passing, he notes that the military has encryption
to protect itself against information attacks but that the
public and infrastructure does not. Cavalry to the
rescue.

Danzig's message is remarkably similar to the Kyl report
noted here a few days ago, and may indicate what's
long been coming in the way of deploying military
forces while falsely proclaiming Posse Comitatus
is being fulfilled. Or that the law is about to be
changed to meet the urgent threats of the Info Age,
media-decorted, to be sure, like WMD Freddy
or our own media-terrifying Toto.

Bruce Hoffman's recently published "Inside Terrorism," lays 
out the full panoply of outlaw and lawful terrorism, by groups 
and nations, cults and religions. Like the "Thugs" of India who 
killed 1 million over 1200 years -- an impressive persistence.

Hoffman claims that terrorism works in most cases. The reasons
why have been discussed here, though not his depth and
range of successes. And that the military seldom knows what
to do about it except to engage in even greater terrorism itself,
particularly against perceived supporters of the enemy.

That's food for thought for those calling for military protection
at home, whether by the military or the increasingly militarized
and armed LEAs and support agencies.

This linkage of WMD terrrorism and information threats 
appears to be the policy strategy to demonize information
in order to criminalize it. "Information threats" under this 
policy does not mean anything protected by the 1A or
WTO copyright, see how it works, is that clear motherfucker, 
do you need a missile in the head to get the point you fucking 
terrorist, read the NEWs, this aint TV Cops, Joe 6-Pack, it's 
high-tech GI Joe sapping your bunker, night-vision video 
rolling, family suicide by Semtex.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 01:43:33 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Non Explosive Weapons
Message-ID: <199811151724.MAA21167@smtp0.atl.mindspring.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Richard Danzig, new Navy Secretary, op-eds in the
NYT today about the threat of "Non Explosive Weapons 
(NEW)," posed by WMD and information warfare.

    http://jya.com/mil-panic.htm

He terms them "weapons of mass disruption" which
may lead to mass panic and will require the military and
law enforcement agencies to unite in a new kind of
US national defense, while, you bet, at the same time 
obeying law against domestic military operations.

In passing, he notes that the military has encryption
to protect itself against information attacks but that the
public and infrastructure does not. Cavalry to the
rescue.

Danzig's message is remarkably similar to the Kyl report
noted here a few days ago, and may indicate what's
long been coming in the way of deploying military
forces while falsely proclaiming Posse Comitatus
is being fulfilled. Or that the law is about to be
changed to meet the urgent threats of the Info Age,
media-decorted, to be sure, like WMD Freddy
or our own media-terrifying Toto.

Bruce Hoffman's recently published "Inside Terrorism," lays 
out the full panoply of outlaw and lawful terrorism, by groups 
and nations, cults and religions. Like the "Thugs" of India who 
killed 1 million over 1200 years -- an impressive persistence.

Hoffman claims that terrorism works in most cases. The reasons
why have been discussed here, though not his depth and
range of successes. And that the military seldom knows what
to do about it except to engage in even greater terrorism itself,
particularly against perceived supporters of the enemy.

That's food for thought for those calling for military protection
at home, whether by the military or the increasingly militarized
and armed LEAs and support agencies.

This linkage of WMD terrrorism and information threats 
appears to be the policy strategy to demonize information
in order to criminalize it. "Information threats" under this 
policy does not mean anything protected by the 1A or
WTO copyright, see how it works, is that clear motherfucker, 
do you need a missile in the head to get the point you fucking 
terrorist, read the NEWs, this aint TV Cops, Joe 6-Pack, it's 
high-tech GI Joe sapping your bunker, night-vision video 
rolling, family suicide by Semtex.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Rabid Wombat 
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 02:18:01 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: Elder Kennedy ordered to tesify to Grand Jury (if you can (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199811120446.WAA27641@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




On Wed, 11 Nov 1998, Jim Choate wrote:

> Forwarded message:
> 
> > Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 20:52:06 -0500
> > From: Petro 
> > Subject: Re: Elder Kennedy ordered to tesify to Grand Jury (if you can
> >  call it that) [CNN] (fwd)
> 
> > 	Jim, "Grand Jury", a jury to see if there is enough evidence to
> > warrant a full trial.
> > 
> > >Irrelevant, one doesn't throw away the justice system because it might have
> > >been abused. One wrong does not justify another.
> > 
> > 	Correct, but this isn't a guilty or innocent trial, this is a "is
> > there enough evidence to try this person" type trial.
> > 
> > 	This judge can't throw the perp in jail, only throw another trial
> > where there will be 12 to judge.
> 

What part of Petro's response did you fail to understand? THe "elder 
Kennedy" is not on trail. A grand jury is convened to determine if enough 
evidence exists to bring trail. Those brought before a grand jury are 
almost always witnesses, or potential witnesses, as is the elder Kennedy.

A grand jury hearing and a criminal trail are two completely seperate 
processes. All the grand jury can do is determine whether or not to 
indite, whereupon the accused has the right to a fair trail before a jury 
as you state.

Anyway, the injustice in this matter is that the two most likely 
suspects, who were both dating the victim up to her death, have never 
been brought to trial. Just another abuse by america's "royal family."

The murder weapon was a golf club belonging to, as I recall, the father 
of one of the boys. Both boys were seen with her on the night of her 
death. No trial for over twenty years, plenty of expensive legal 
manuvering to prevent one. And now Jim complaining that a single judge is 
insufficient to determine if an inditement should be handed down.

Perhaps prof. Froomkin is reading the list and can pass on an informed 
legal opinion? I've never seen any regulations baring a judge from 
serving in the capacity of a grand jury, OTOH, IANAL.

-r.w.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Frantz 
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 05:48:10 +0800
To: Rabid Wombat 
Subject: Re: Could E.M. Cordian be Matt Blaze in Disguise? (Nah!)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 11:27 AM -0700 11/15/98, Rabid Wombat wrote:
>No, but could Bob Hettinga be Vin McLellan's sock puppet?

Having met both of them (in the same room yet), not bloody likely.  :-)


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz       | Macintosh: Didn't do every-| Periwinkle -- Consulting
(408)356-8506     | thing right, but did know  | 16345 Englewood Ave.
frantz@netcom.com | the century would end.     | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Rabid Wombat 
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 02:37:16 +0800
To: Robert Hettinga 
Subject: Re: Could E.M. Cordian be Matt Blaze in Disguise? (Nah!)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




No, but could Bob Hettinga be Vin McLellan's sock puppet?


On Sun, 15 Nov 1998, Robert Hettinga wrote:

> :-)
> 
> Bwahahaha!
> 
> Isn't this fun???
> 
> Cheers,
> Bob Hettinga
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 03:33:06 +0800
To: Rabid Wombat 
Subject: Re: Could E.M. Cordian be Matt Blaze in Disguise? (Nah!)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 1:27 PM -0500 on 11/15/98, Rabid Wombat wrote:


> No, but could Bob Hettinga be Vin McLellan's sock puppet?

Um, it's *meat* puppet, Rab, meat puppet...

Or, better, "Bwahahahahahahah!"


Seriously. Like most normal people, I hate saying facially outrageous
things in well-known watering holes and being wrong, but it's particularly
annoying when you're consistantly ambushed by self-appointed, um, holes of
another kind. Vin did this kind of vigorous error correction on me twice
now, on my own turf, in the past three weeks. Not only were both flames
about two standard deviations outside the bounds of altruistic desires to
correct the record, which even *I* can excuse once in a while ;-), this
kind of silly dreck is getting to be a positive habit with Mr. McLellan. I
mean, Socrates was right, and all that, but he was also a pain in the ass.


I fixed my problem with Mr. McLellan this morning, though. Mr. McLellan can
crusade against threats to his world view on someone else's list, I figure.


So, yup, mea fucking culpa. As Frank Lloyd Wright was fond of saying when
he'd been caught in a stretcher, or at least vigorously propounding an
error, "Well. There you are!"


Cheers,
Bob Hettinga
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 15:44:35 +0800
To: Jason Burton 
Subject: Re: Privacy and the internet
In-Reply-To: <199811140949.BAA21751@toad.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981115145719.00944580@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 04:46 AM 11/14/98 -0500, Jason Burton wrote:
>Does anyone know what I should do if someone was posting sensitive
>information on a website?
>And what if the webmaster of the domain doesnt respond to the request for
>removal of information.
>IS there something that say's what is and isn't able to be published
>"personal information" on the internet.
>If someone can reply I'd appreciate it.
>Seeking council.

They don't call this The Net Of A Million Lies for nothing :-)

Depends substantially on what kind of information it is,
what jurisdictions you, the web site, and the poster are in,
and whether you're interested in seeking legal counsel
as well as just hacker advice.  IANAL, but there are a range
of torts from libel or slander to invasion of privacy to
emotional distress that sometimes apply, if you're into
that sort of approach; if the person the information is about
is a public figure, this seldom works, and if the information
is true, you've also got a much more limited case.

Alternatively, there's the Big Gun Flame War approach of 
making sure everyone knows what an unresponsive loser the 
web site providers are, though that does lose the opportunity to quietly 
get the information to go away, even if it hasn't already been
sucked down by Altavista, Yahoo, Hotbot, and DejaNews.

Most web sites are either on big commercial hosting sites with
relatively responsive abuse@wherever contacts, or else they're
smaller sites which get connectivity and/or hosting service
from larger providers.  So find out who their upstream providers are,
and talk with them about their customer.  
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 05:06:01 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Plug: Check out wasp.org...
Message-ID: 
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http://www.wasp.org/ is a site which belongs to WASP's author, and DBS and
DCSB member, Steven Smith.

When it's finished, the current version is about 70%-there alpha, WASP will
be an open source web application delivery platform written in JAVA for
XML/HTML.

Steve and I were talking about using WASP for digital commerce, financial
cryptography, and dbts applications Friday night, at Anthony's Pier 4,
during the Constitution Yacht Club awards banquet.

(Naw, not *that* kind of yacht club. CYC, while I'm plugging things, for
those of you who sail in Boston, charges all of $75/yr, and it mostly does
 'round-the-bouy races and
cookouts, all out of a one-room prefab houseboat clubhouse tied up at the
Constitution Marina in Charlestown. Steve graciously answered a cattlecall
on the DCSB list for crew this summer, and now does foredeck on Corisan,
the 1968 Columbia 38-footer a bunch of us old farts race on every Thursday
night in Boston harbor, when it's warm enough to, anyway.)

So, seeing that WASP is still being built, and Steve is crypto-clueful, I
thought I'd spam the crypto community (and a few others :-)) about WASP so
that Steve could get some comments on what he has now, and requests for new
stuff he can add to WASP. And, of course, since it's open source, to
solicit WASP additions, if WASP indeed doesn't suck, both crypto and
otherwise, from other clueful people both inside the country and otherwise.
:-).

The following is from Steve's FAQ on WASP, sans links, so it might read
strangely here in text.

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga


> 1.  What is the WASP?
>
> The WASP is an OpenSourceTM platform (library) for developing complex web
>applications.  It is written in Java and runs under any system which will
>support the Java Servlet API.  (eg. Sun's JavaWebServer, Apache (via Live
>Software's JRun), NetScape, IIS and others.)
>
> The current version is: 0.7a.  Download it now.  I think this is 70% to a
>1.0 release.   0.8a will be out by 11/16 and will include the
>DataAccessObject (org.wasp.data.*).
>
> 2. How does the WASP work?
>
> The WASP parses .wasp files which consist of standard HTML and some
>additional XML tags that are used to control the behavior of the WASP.
>All .wasp files should be consistent with XML syntax.  The WASP allows you
>to add new tags and functionality easily.  The default set of tags provide
>standard script features, including:  variable substitution, conditional
>processing, looping, dynamic SQL queries (for prototyping only),
>interfaces to Data Access Objects, etc.  Session management is provided by
>the underlying Servlet API and WASP applications have access request,
>session, and global namespaces. See the Javadoc.
>
> 3. Who can use the WASP?
>
> Anyone can use it for Free!  Better yet, you can download the source.
>The WASP is released under the Library General Public License (LGPL), so
>if you make any improvements to the WASP, the results must be free as
>well.   WARNING:  This software is still alpha stage.  It works, but there
>are no Makefiles or INSTALL instructions yet.  You're on your own. An
>example .wasp page will be posted soon.
>
> 4. Why would I want to use the WASP?
>
> That is probably the subject for an entire whitepaper which I don't have
>time to write.  I wrote this software because all the methods I have found
>for developing web applications suck in some way or other.   Even
>monumental OpenSource treasures like Apache and Perl leave something to be
>desired when considering a complex application.  Before I go trashing
>everyone else's stuff though, let me tell you why The WASP doesn't suck:
>
> It is easily extended so you can make it do whatever you want. It is
>written in Java so you can use any server OS or Database. It seperates
>HTML from SQL and Java application logic, thereby allowing designers to
>design and programmers to program. It is fast and scaleable.  It will run
>well enough on your hopped up 486 linux box and it will scream on your 10
>CPU Sparc Mega Server.  If you run NT, I'm sure it'll work there too.
>(Shame on you for wasting good hardware!) It encourages the development of
>reusable business objects. It can talk to dynamic data sources/services
>that are not SQL-Based!  (Important for complex distributed object
>applications.) It is OpenSource, so when you run into a bug, you can fix
>it! It is comprehendable by any experienced object programmer.  (Only
>~3000 lines of code) It is Free!
>
> 5. What's wrong with the other stuff?
>
> The other standard methods for developing web apps all suffer from one or
>more of the following:
>
> They involve editing single files containing 5 or more programming
>lanugages, all with different syntax, and which execute in 5 different
>places at 5 different times. They require you to surf the tech-support
>websites of your tools vendors hoping for clues to some bug. They yield
>unmaintainable / throwaway solutions. They tie you to a single vendor's
>hardware, operating system, or database. They force you to use some arcane
>GUI environment to create your "application".   This process always feels
>like Voodoo to me. M1CR0S0F4 R00LZ D00D!!!1!!1!. They cost money whether
>they work well or not.
>
> 6. What can I do for the WASP?
>
> I will be setting up a database here soon to keep track of a wishlist,
>bugs, etc.  In the meantime, consult the source code and look for XXX in
>the comments.  These indicate areas that need work.  Obviously, general
>stuff like cleaning up error paths/exception handling would help.   Anyone
>with experience in the area of Enterprise Java Beans who could offer
>suggestions on how to implement the Data Access stuff in the approved Java
>framework would be greatly appreciated.  I understand the EJB isn't baked
>yet.  I guess I'll buy a book on it after I finish the contract I'm on.
>
> After the Parser is reworked, the Page cache might be reworked to
>serialize and write to disk or use some persistant store.  The WASP caches
>pages to avoid expensive parsing but I haven't yet measured how much
>memory this uses.  (RAM sure is cheap these days!)
>
> Also, if you really want a pure OpenSource stack of software, someone
>needs to implement an OpenSource servlet runner.  That is truely a
>"chasing taillights" problem (as the Halloween Document put it) so it
>should be easily enough accomplished.  If no one steps up to plate, maybe
>I'll get around to it, but don't hold your breath.  I'm enjoying writing
>WASP applications too much!
>
> There is a net-CVS repository for the WASP code.  Read-only access has
>not been set up yet.  Contact steven.t.smith@pobox.com to obtain access.
>
> 7. What about the LGPL and Java Virtual Machine?
>
> I'm no licensing expert.  Ostensibly, I want this program to be freely
>used and improved while not enriching the lawyers, taxmen and all the
>other parties that surround commercial software.  Mostly, however, I want
>to share this cool program with my friends.  If anyone else can use it,
>that would be great!  If anyone could help me debug it, that would be even
>greater!  That's why I chose to OpenSource.
>
> What exactly defines a program running inside a JVM is not immediately
>obvious.  I just assumed that Java classes are all kind of like libraries.
>That's why I chose to use the LGPL.
>
> In my view, the WASP consists of every class in the org.wasp.* heirarchy.
>I don't consider any Data Access code that is specific to your
>website/application and which may be "linked" into the WASP at runtime, to
>be "part of" of the WASP or create some kind of derivative work.  If you
>do write additional Taglets which are of general use, I expect those to be
>included in the WASP.  This is sort of "enforced" by Taglets registering
>themselves via code in the main org.wasp.engine.Servlet.init(), thereby,
>in my view, making them part of the WASP.  Data Access stuff that is
>custom to your application can be configured in via initialization
>parameters and thusly not considered to be part of the WASP.
>
> For what it's worth, the more you poke around this stuff, the more you
>realize that Software isn't a THING at at all.  All those phantasms people
>use to think about it are simply anachonistic hold-overs from industrial
>era, scarcity thinking.  Software Licenses and the businesses they support
>begin to look like so many Voodoo incantations and pointless
>pontifications about angels on the head of pin.  Or worse, they seem like
>the rules of a silly boardgame which is played with real money, and in
>which the house (government, lawyers, VCs, Investment Banks and corporate
>shareholders) always wins. Casinos at least offer better odds.  I believe
>a programmer is better off figuring out how to get people to actually use
>and propagate code in ways that enrich each of us individually and empower
>individuals generally.
>
> 8. Who wrote it?
>
> Me. (steven.t.smith@pobox.com)  And whoever I could sucker into helping
>me. ;-)  See the CONTRIBUTORS file for details.
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Watts 
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 08:35:50 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: U.S. Attorney Morgenthau on Money Laundering
Message-ID: <19981115235850.2195.rocketmail@send102.yahoomail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Can't blame the Feds for this one; Morgenthau is actually the District
Attorney for Manhattan, not the U.S. Attorney.  My bad.
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Jean-Francois Avon" 
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 09:26:11 +0800
To: "Toronto Star" 
Subject: Search and Seizure abuse...
Message-ID: <199811160059.TAA27744@cti06.citenet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Note to elected officials: please inquire on this event an reply.
Thanks 

JFA


========== forwarded from the Canadian Firearms Digest, V2 #701 ========
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 15:23:49 -0600
From: Marstar 
Subject: Re: Cdn-Firearms Digest V2 #699

I WOULD LIKE TO ADD MY TWO CENTS WORTH, THIS IS A VERY SENSITIVE
SUBJECT WITH US....

1. Ask to see the search warrant.
NFA: The searchers are required to SHOW you a COPY of the warrant or
TELL you what is in it before executing it, and LEAVE you a copy of it
when they leave..

100% RIGHT, BUT WHEN THE PERSON POINTING THE MP-5 AT YOU TELLS YOU
TO SHUT-UP AND MOVE AWAY, WHAT WOULD SUGGEST ??

2. Ask the person in possession of the warrant to identify himself and
all of those with him and to indicate whether those persons are
authorized to aid in the execution of the warrant.

WITH 40 PEOPLE ALREADY TEARING THINGS APART AND AN ENTIRE SWAT
TEAM ON HAND HOLDING YOU AND YOUR EMPLOYEES AT GUNPOINT, THEY REFUSE TO
IDENTIFY THEMSELVES, HOW SHOULD WE IMPRESS THEM WITH OUR DEMANDS ??

TO ADD A BIT OF CHALLENGE TO THE AFFAIR MOST OF THE PEOPLE WERE IN
CIVILIAN CLOTHES AND WORE NO ID....MOST OF THE TRUCK AND CARS WERE
UNMARKED.... HAD WE NOT TAKEN PICTURES WE WOULD NOT EVEN KNOW WHO HAD
"VISITED" US.


3. Request time to review the warrant and to obtain advice with
respect to the appropriate course of conduct.

EXCELLENT IDEA, WHEN I REACHED FOR THE PHONE TO CALL OUR LAWYER
TWO OF THE SWAT TEAM SMEMBERS WITH MP-5s POINTED AT ME INSTRUCTED ME "TO
GET THE HELL AWAY FROM THE PHONE" THE FACT THAT I TOLD THEM I WANTETO
CALL MY LAWYER DID NOT SEEM TO IMPRESS THAT AT ALL....

AS FOR HAVING TIME TO REVIEW THE WARRANT, THEY DID NOT SEEM INTERESTED IN
HEARING ANY ARGUMENTS ON THE SUBJECT....

IS THERE SOME OTHER APPROACH I SHOULD HAVE USED ??

4. Read the warrant carefully to determine: the premises covered

WE ADVISED THE OFFICER IN CHARGE THAT THIS WAS INCORRECT...."NOT
IMPORTANT" WAS THE REPLY

the specific documents or objects it covers

WE ALSO ADVISED THEM OF THE ERRORS IN THIS SECTION...."IT DOES NOT
MATTER" REPLIED THE ONE IN CHARGE OF THE RAID....

 the alleged offence(s) subject of the warrant

NEW:  Read the DATE and TIMES that the warrant authorizes search. 

THESE POINTS WERE CORRECT....

Often, the warrant is invalid because they were supposed to do the
search YESTERDAY, or EARLIER TODAY, and entry can then be legally
refused.  CC s.  488 forbids the execution of a search warrant AT
NIGHT, unless "(a) the justice [who issues it] is satisfied that there
are reasonable grounds for it to be executed by night, (b) the
reasonable grounds are included in the Information [laid before the
justice to get the warrant], AND (c) the warrant authorizes that it be
executed by night."

5. At the same time that the warrant is being reviewed, instruct
someone to make the following calls (if not already made):
legal counsel 

I INDICATED ABOVE WHAT HAPPENED WHEN WE
ATTEMPTED TO USE THE PHONE, WE WERE SOME TIME INTO THE SEARCH BEFORE MY
WIFE WAS ABLE TO CALL OUR LAWYER....

individuals named in the warrant whose offices are to be searched
each should be advised that the search is pending and cautioned
that they must not remove, alter or destroy any documents or other material
in their offices.

HEY THAT MANY PEOPLE CARRYING SUB MACHINE GUNS,
SHOTGUNS, STUN GRENADES, HANDGUNS, ETC, ETC....HAVE MY INSTANT OBEDIENCE
ASSURED....
>NFA: ADD the local news media

GOOD LUCK, IN OUR CASE THEY CLOSED OFF OUR ROADWAY AND TURNED AWAY
EVERYBODY WHO SHOWED UP....
FEW PEOPLE APPRECIATE THE "HOSPITALITY" OF ARMED POLICE AT YOU GATE....

>NFA: ADD NFA HQ: (403)439-1394 or NFA- (add prov.branch # here

WE WERE UNABLE TO CONTACT THE NFA FOR SEVERAL HOURS....


>NFA NOTE:  If told that you must sit down and not use the phone, ask:
"Am I under arrest?"  If the answer is "No, not YET!" then no one has
any right to TOUCH you, or to hinder your use of the telephone. 

WE TRIED THAT APPROACH BUT I'M A CHICKEN AT HEART, TWO MP-5s
POINTED AT MY MID-SECTION MADE ME THAT WAY....

 If an officer DOES touch you, then ask again: "Am I under arrest?"  If
the answer is no, then say:  "In that case, take your hand off me -- or I
will arrest YOU for assault."  [Yes, you ARE authorized to do that by
Canadian law, CC s. 494(1) and (3)].

6. Do not "agree" that the search can be expanded beyond the limits
described in the warrant. 

IN OUR CASE THEY DID ABSOLUTELY AS THEY PLEASED, THEY HAD GUNS AND
WE DID NOT....

7. Do not answer any substantive questions.
NFA: More people are convicted from what they SAY than from any other
cause.  You have a right to SILENCE.  USE IT.  Unless you know as much
about firearms law as the NFA does, you have NO IDEA whether or not
you ARE guilty - -- because you may SEEM to be guilty, and yet the NFA
can often tell your lawyer why you are NOT.  

YOU ARE QUITE RIGHT, KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT....

8. Do not attempt to impede, physically or ot otherwise, the person
executing the warrant.  NFA: That is obstruction, and a criminal offence.

AND IF YOU HAVE A PUMPED UP BUNCH OF PEOPLE CARRYING AUTOMATIC
WEAPONS WITH FINGERS ON THE TRIGGER DON'T EVEN THINK OF GIVING THEM A
PROBLEM.... THESE PEOPLE WILL SHOOT FIRST AND ASK QUESTIONS LATER....THEY
PROVED THAT ON A NUMBER OF RAIDS IN THE PAST FEW YEARS....

9. If any documents exist in respect of which solicitor-client
privilege may exist, identify the documents and their location and
indicate to the search officer that the documents are subject to
solicitor-client privilege and that you require that the appropriate
procedures be followed to protect the privilege.

OH YEAH, THAT IS GAURANTEED TO IMPRESS THEM, HELL WE EVEN HAVE
PICTURES OF AN OFFICER STEALING DOCUMENTS....

10. Keep an accurate log (or copy) of all documents seized.   NFA: the
searchers are required to file an "Information" with the court to get
a search warrant.  Unless the justice blocks it, the "Information" is
a public document. After executing the warrant, the searchers must
file a "Return" with the court, explaining what they did with the
warrant and listing what they took.  SO: After being searched, go to
the court that issued the warrant and request a copy of the
Information and Return relating to that warrant.  You should be able
to get them for the cost of photocopying, and they are VALUABLE.

IN OUR CASE THEY SEALED THE WARRANT THEREBY DENYING ACCESS TO ALL
WHO ASKED.... 

THEY WILL GIVE YOU WHATEVER RECEIPTS THEY FEEL LIKE GIVING YOU....WHEN
THEY PLEASE....


ALL OF THE ABOVE INFORMATION IS ACCURATE AND A MATTER OF COURT RECORD.
WE CHALLENGED THE WARRANTS AND THEY WERE DECLARED ILLEGAL....
WE CHALLENGED THE RAID UNDER TWO SECTIONS OF THE CANADIAN CHARTER, WE
WON....


I THINK WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY IS "DON'T EXPECT THINGS TO GO DOWN IN A
SMOOTH AND ORGANIZED MANNER, THEIR PEOPLE ARE RUNNING ON ADRENALIN, YOU
ARE UPSET AND NERVOUS, THE HEAD MAN IS TRYING TO IMPRESS HIS MEN,
DON'T BE A HERO, DON'T DO ANYTHING STUPID, LIVE TO FIGHT
ANOTHER DAY.

SORRY FOR DRAGGING ON BUT EVEN AFTER 3.1/2 YEARS THIS EVENT STILL HAS ME
FURIOUS.

JOHN F ST AMOUR







Definition:  FASCISM: n.:  a political and economic movement, strongly nationalistic, magnifying the rights of the state as opposed to those of the individual, in which industry, though remaining largely under private ownership, and all administrative
political units, are controlled by a strong central government.
        -------------------------------------------------
"One of the ordinary modes by which tyrants accomplish their purpose, without resistance, is by disarming the people and making it an offense to keep arms".  - Joseph Story, U.S. Supreme Court Justice.
        -------------------------------------------------
the German gun control laws were enacted by the "liberal" Weimar Republic government that preceded Hitler, and were a strong aid to his coming to power -- because they disarmed Hitler's opponents, and Hitler's adherents ignored them -- as criminals have always ignored gun control laws.

Disarming the public is a frequent first step toward dictatorships and genocides.  Once the disarming is complete, the public is helpless against those who have the guns.        -------------------------------------------------
"Both oligarch and tyrant mistrust the people, and therefore 
 deprive them of their arms."
                                 -- Aristotle, "Politics"
-------------------------------------------------

PGP keys: http://bs.mit.edu:8001/pks-toplev.html
PGP ID:C58ADD0D:529645E8205A8A5E F87CC86FAEFEF891 
PGP ID:5B51964D:152ACCBCD4A481B0 254011193237822C


From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 11:12:33 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Text: Clinton Continues Nat'l Emergency on WMD
Message-ID: <199811160253.SAA00965@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Text: Clinton Continues Nat'l Emergency on WMD
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 01:18:44 -0600
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  USIA
http://www.usia.gov/current/news/latest/98111212.tlt.html?/products/washfile
/newsitem.shtml

12 November 1998 

TEXT: CLINTON CONTINUES EMERGENCY ON WEAPONS OF MASS
DESTRUCTION 

(They continue to pose an unusual and extraordinary threat) (280)

Washington -- President Clinton November 12 extended the national
emergency regarding weapons of mass destruction that he originally
declared on November 14, 1994 with respect to the unusual and
extraordinary threat to the national security, foreign policy, and
economy of the United States posed by the proliferation of nuclear,
biological, and chemical weapons ("weapons of mass destruction") and
the means of delivering such weapons.

Following is the White House text:

(begin text)

THE WHITE HOUSE
Office of the Press Secretary

November 12, 1999

NOTICE

CONTINUATION OF EMERGENCY REGARDING
WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION

On November 14, 1994, by Executive Order 12938, I declared a national
emergency with respect to the unusual and extraordinary threat to the
national security, foreign policy, and economy of the United States
posed by the proliferation of nuclear, biological, and chemical
weapons ("weapons of mass destruction") and the means of delivering
such weapons. Because the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction
and the means of delivering them continues to pose an unusual and
extraordinary threat to the national security, foreign policy, and
economy of the United States, the national emergency first declared on
November 14, 1994, and extended on November 14, 1995, November 12,
1996, and November 13, 1997, must continue in effect beyond November
14, 1998. Therefore, in accordance with section 202(d) of the National
Emergencies Act (50 U.S.C. 1622 (d)), I am continuing the national
emergency declared in Executive Order 12938.

This notice shall be published in the Federal Register and transmitted
to the Congress.

WILLIAM J. CLINTON

THE WHITE HOUSE
November 12, 1998

(end text)
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 11:10:35 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Stranger than fiction....
Message-ID: <199811160253.SAA00977@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Stranger than fiction....
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 02:09:20 -0600
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  London Times
http://www.sunday-times.co.uk:80/news/pages/Times/frontpage.html?2182225

Computer bobbies to take over from PCs 

 POLICE in Greater Manchester are to test plans to replace
 some police stations with unstaffed computer kiosks that
 resemble hole-in-the-wall bank machines. 

 People anxious to report an emergency or speak to a
 policeman would use a touch screen to be put through by
 telephone, and eventually by video link, to the nearest
 control room. They would be able to ask the time or receive
 directions electronically, at the touch of the screen. 

 Senior officers believe that the machines, known as customer
 interaction points or communications kiosks, will appear in
 every high street and will become as familiar as cash
 machines and the old blue police boxes. 

 The hole-in- the- wall proposals - which will be tested in
 Salford as part of a plan to reduce the number of police
 stations - grew from a review of the Greater Manchester
 Police force's property as part of a budget crisis. 

 Supporters of the plan insist that the need to cut costs is only
 a means to push through an inevitable and welcome
 technological change which more adequately reflects
 changing police methods. 

 Stuart Render, the force spokesman, said that most people
 reported crime, from burglaries to emergencies, over the
 telephone, and increasingly by mobile phone. They rarely
 needed to go to a police station, except to present
 documents. 

 The kiosks would release money for frontline officers instead
 of tying it up in property. The first machines could be in
 libraries, supermarkets or on the street, he said. 

 "In the future in every high street there will probably be some
 kind of hole-in-the-wall police contact point where you will
 be able to make contact with a 24-hour control room or find
 out things about community safety and so on. That way
 technology gives us flexibility and accessibility to improve our
 level of service and keep officers on the front line rather than
 having them manning police stations." 

 The pilot scheme will be discussed as part of the larger
 rationalisation at a meeting of the Police Authority on Friday.
 Chief Superintendent Chris Wells, Divisional Commander in
 Salford, said: "None of the existing police stations will close
 until replacement facilities have been installed. 

 "The vast majority of people that access our service do not
 visit a police station, they use a telephone. We are looking to
 increase our effectiveness and these proposals together with
 new technology will take us in that direction." 

 He said people would be able to see town centre maps and
 get basic directions from the kiosks, as well as information
 on crime prevention, details about area constables, missing
 persons, Crimestoppers and witness support. 

 Senior officers acknowledge that their biggest problem will
 be persuading a sceptical public of the advantages. Barry
 Evans, the force's director of information technology, is
 aware of the need to "carry a myriad of people" along with
 him and that the machines must prove their worth. 

 Karen Garrido, chairwoman of the Boothstown police and
 community consultative group, based in Salford, is opposed
 to the scheme. Boothstown police station is scheduled to be
 closed within 12 months. 

 She said: "I am totally against the closure. The people should
 be asked what they want and I don't think they will want a
 little box or a hole in the wall instead." 

 A spokesman for Age Concern, which has offices in Eccles,
 Salford, said: "We believe it would be quite daunting for an
 old person who does not have a telephone to leave their
 home and use one of these machines." 

Copyright 1998 Times Newspapers Ltd.
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 11:10:24 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Wired News: Y2Kaboom?
Message-ID: <199811160253.SAA00989@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Wired News: Y2Kaboom?
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 02:27:52 -0600
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  Wired News
http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/16217.html

Y2Kaboom?
 by Declan McCullagh 

 12:27 p.m.12.Nov.98.PST
 WASHINGTON -- America and Russia should
 shut down their nuclear arsenals rather than risk
 Armageddon because of Year 2000 glitches, a
 military research group says in a report released
 Thursday. 

 Y2K errors could cause the systems to go
 haywire, leading to erroneous early warning
 reports or even triggering an accidental launch of
 a nuclear missile, the British American Security
 Information Council warned in a 36-page report. 

 Both superpowers keep their arsenals in a
 constant state of readiness -- a Cold War-era
 strategy that could backfire with devastating
 results if the computer gremlins strike. 

 "If Y2K breakdowns were to produce inaccurate
 early-warning data, or if communications and
 command channels were to be compromised,
 the combination of hair-trigger force postures
 and Y2K failures could be disastrous," said the
 author of "The Bug in the Bomb: The Impact of
 the Year 2000 Problem on Nuclear Weapons." 

 Nuclear weapons systems are laced with
 embedded systems -- controlling functions such
 as ballistics and sensors -- that have not been
 declared free from Y2K worries, the report says.
 Most missles also keep track of time since the
 last monthly or yearly servicing, which could
 transform weapons into plutonium-packed
 paperweights if the systems shut down on 1
 January 2000. 

 A Defense Department official, who spoke on
 condition of anonymity, said nuclear weapons
 systems have received the Pentagon's full
 attention and will be in good shape. He added
 that military leaders are already discussing Y2K
 issues with their Russian counterparts. 

 Those assurances are not enough to allay the
 fears of Michael Kraig, the report's author. 

 "There are two problems together that make up
 one big problem: The sorry state of the
 [Russian] program and the fact that they don't
 know information about it," said Kraig, a BASIC
 fellow. "They're still committed to
 launch-on-warning and hair-trigger alert status.
 That, combined with the fact that their program
 is in such a sorry state, makes us worry." 

 BASIC lobbies for international agreements
 restricting arms sales and supports complete
 nuclear disarmament. 


 The Defense Department has been battling
 accusations that it lags behind other federal
 agencies in making Y2K repairs, something the
 agency's top officials are acutely aware of. 

 "I think we're probably going to be the poster
 child for failure," John Hamre, deputy secretary
 of defense, told Fortune 500 executives in July.
 "Nobody cares if the Park Services computers
 don't come on. OK? But what's going to happen
 if some do in the [Department of Defense]?" 

 The Clinton administration's September quarterly
 report on federal agencies says: "The
 Department of Defense has a massive Year
 2000 challenge which must be accomplished on
 a tight schedule. The Department has improved
 its rate of progress in addressing the challenge,
 but the pace must be increased to meet
 government-wide milestones." 

 The administration's report says that as of this
 summer, 42 percent of the Pentagon's most vital
 systems -- 2,965 in all -- have been Y2K
 cleared. 

 But numbers alone don't reveal the complexity of
 the Defense Department's Y2K woes, Kraig
 argues. 

 "There are severe and recurring problems across
 the entire DOD Y2K remediation program,
 including ill-defined concepts and operating
 procedures, ad-hoc funding and spotty
 estimates for final costs, lax management,
 insufficient standards for declaring systems 'Y2K
 compliant,' insufficient contingency planning in
 case of Y2K-related failures, and poor
 inter-departmental communications," Kraig
 wrote. 

 In the preface, Paul Warnke, BASIC's president
 and chief arms-control negotiator under
 President Carter, says: "The only prudent
 course may be to de-alert those nuclear
 systems where date-related malfunctioning in
 associated command, control, and
 communications systems poses even a remote
 possibility of accidental launch." 

 Copyright (c) 1994-98 Wired Digital Inc. All rights reserved.
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 11:16:31 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 6.37: Privacy Group Pushes For Hearings on ECHELON
Message-ID: <199811160253.SAA01000@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: "Ama-gi ISPI" 
Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 6.37: Privacy Group Pushes For Hearings on ECHELON
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 00:49:50 -0800
To: 

ISPI Clips 6.37: Privacy Group Pushes For Hearings on ECHELON
News & Info from the Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI)
Friday November 13, 1998
ISPI4Privacy@ama-gi.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This From: WorldNetDaily, November 12, 1998
http://www.worldnetdaily.com

Push for hearings on Echelon:
Global spy system needs scrutiny, says rights group
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_exnews/19981112_xex_push_hearing.shtml

A WorldNetDaily Exclusive
Copyright 1998 WorldNetDaily.com

By
Stephan Archer

In an effort to create some accountability between the country's citizens
and the National Security Agency's top-secret global surveillance system
known as Echelon, the Free Congress Foundation is urging that congressional
hearings be held concerning the NSA's use of the system.

Originally, Echelon was designed to spy on the Communist Bloc during the
Cold War. However, since the end of the Cold War, the NSA has used it for
other questionable purposes that include spying on the citizens of U.S.
allies as well as the citizens of other countries, commercial spying, and
even domestic spying.

In essence, Echelon works through a series of high-tech spy facilities
located primarily in five countries: the United States, Canada, England,
New Zealand, and Australia. These countries, which are sworn to secrecy
about the project in a secret agreement known as UKUSA, all actively take
part in this encroachment of privacy into the lives of the people of the
world by collecting virtually all fax transmissions, e-mails, and phone
calls. Not even cellular phone calls escape the grasp of the Echelon
system.

"Obviously, we need to have these capabilities," said Wayne Madsen, who
worked in the National COMSEC Assessment Center at the NSA's Fort Meade,
Maryland, facility back in the 1980s and is currently a senior fellow at
the Electronic Privacy Information Center.

As an example of our country's need for the system, Madsen said, "No one
can argue about using the system to counter terrorism. Where people will
have a problem is where Echelon is used for political and business
interests."

The Echelon system gets most of its data by collecting all transmissions
handled by the Intelsat and Inmarsat satellites, which are responsible for
much of the electronic communication that takes place between countries.
Earth-bound communication is sucked up and absorbed by other spy satellites
that the NSA has launched into space.

"It's a huge vacuum cleaner," said Madsen.

Once these spy facilities collect the phone calls, e-mails, and faxes, of
virtually everyone on earth, the Echelon system sorts them through a kind
of filter system known as the Echelon dictionary. This dictionary looks for
"flag" words in all of the transmitted communication. While it lets a
majority of all collected material pass through its filter, it tags those
that may pose a threat and tracks all subsequent communication coming from
the source of the original "flagged" message.

Concerning Echelon's inherent intrusion on people's privacy, Patrick Poole,
the deputy director for the Center of Technology Policy at the Free
Congress Foundation, said, "While we understand the need for the
intelligence power embodied by Echelon, the indiscriminate use of Echelon
presents major threats to liberty not only to U.S. citizens but to citizens
around the world."

And this threat is real. The foundation's report states that U.S. leaders
have, in fact, already abused this awesome technology. For example, the
report states the following: "In September 1993, President Clinton asked
the CIA to spy on Japanese auto manufacturers that were designing
zero-emission cars and to forward that information to the Big Three U.S.
car manufacturers: Ford, General Motors and Chrysler."

"You can assume that all major U.S. corporations are fed items of interest
(via Echelon) from time to time to give them a leg up on international
competitors," said Madsen.

Although this may be seen as a strategic corporate weapon for American
businesses, in reality, it's an example of technology that can get out of
hand. For example, former Canadian spy Mike Frost stated in his book,
"Spyworld," that in 1981, there was an "accidental" cell phone intercept of
the American ambassador to Canada that resulted in the U.S. getting outbid
by the Canadians in a grain deal with China. The deal brought in $2.5
billion for the Canadian Wheat Board.

With this kind of abuse of Echelon's power, the question as to whether or
not the U.S. government has been using this power for political purposes
can be easily raised. This question is seemingly answered in the
foundation's report.

"The discovery of domestic surveillance targeted at American civilians for
reasons of 'unpopular' political affiliation -- or for no probable cause at
all -- in violation of the First, Fourth and Fifth Amendments of the
Constitution is regularly impeded by very elaborate and complex legal
arguments and privilege claims by the intelligence agencies and the U.S.
government," the report says.

When asked if the system has been used by the U.S. government to spy on its
citizens, Madsen told WorldNetDaily that he was sure it has been.

"I don't believe that the NSA or the current Administration would hesitate
to use this system on American citizens for their own agendas," he said.

Outraged by this flagrant abuse of power illustrated by our country's
elected officials, Poole said, "While the U.S. is the prime mover behind
the Echelon system, it's shameful that the European Parliament is the body
holding the constitutional debate in regards to Echelon today."

A September 1998 report for the European Parliament by the Omega Foundation
said, "Within Europe, all e-mail, telephone, and fax communications are
routinely intercepted by the United States National Security Agency.

According to the Omega Foundation report, it is this ability of the NSA
that brings major concern to the European Parliament. In an effort to bring
the issues surrounding Echelon to the forefront of American politics, the
Free Congress Foundation plans to send out a report about Echelon to all of
the 500 policy organizations in the U.S. as well as to select members of
Congress. These select individuals include members from both the House and
Senate intelligence committees as well as House and Senate Constitution
subcommittees. Copies of the report will also be sent to the congressional
leadership of both parties.

Although the foundation is hoping to get some action out of these members
of Congress, Poole said that support at the grassroots level of our
nation's political structure will be a must if this issue isn't to end up
buried by the intelligence committees.

"For there to be any account and oversight to the Echelon system, the
American people are going to have to contact their elected representatives
in order to investigate the abuses that we know have occurred in regards to
the Echelon system," Poole said.

See Free Congress Foundation's report on Echelon at:
http://www.freecongress.org/ctp/echelon.html


(c) 1998 Western Journalism Center


--------------------------------NOTICE:------------------------------
ISPI Clips are news & opinion articles on privacy issues from
all points of view; they are clipped from local, national and international
newspapers, journals and magazines, etc. Inclusion as an ISPI Clip
does not necessarily reflect an endorsement of the content or opinion
by ISPI. In compliance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed free without profit or payment for non-profit research
and educational purposes only.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

ISPI Clips is a FREE e-mail service from the "Institute for the Study
of Privacy Issues" (ISPI). To receive "ISPI Clips" on a regular bases
(up to 3 - 8 clips per day) send the following message  "Please
enter [Your Name] into the ISPI Clips list: [Your e-mail address]" to:
ISPIClips@ama-gi.com  .

The Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) is a small
contributor-funded organization based in Victoria, British Columbia
(Canada). ISPI operates on a not-for-profit basis, accepts no
government funding and takes a global perspective.

ISPI's mandate is to conduct & promote interdisciplinary research
into electronic, personal and  financial privacy with a view toward
helping ordinary people understand the degree of privacy they have
with respect to government, industry and each other and to likewise
inform them about techniques to enhance their privacy.

But, none of this can be accomplished without your kind and
generous financial support. If you are concerned about the erosion
of your privacy in general, won't you please help us continue this
important work by becoming an "ISPI Supporter" or by taking out
an institute Membership?

We gratefully accept all contributions:

  Less than $60    ISPI Supporter
          $60 - $99    Primary ISPI Membership (1 year)
      $100 - $300    Senior ISPI Membership (2 years)
More than $300    Executive Council Membership (life)

Your ISPI "membership" contribution entitles you to receive "The ISPI
Privacy Reporter" (our bi-monthly 12 page hard-copy newsletter in
multi-contributor format) for the duration of your membership.

For a contribution form with postal instructions please send the following
message "ISPI Contribution Form" to ISPI4Privacy@ama-gi.com .

We maintain a strict privacy policy. Any information you divulge to ISPI
is kept in strict confidence. It will not be sold, lent or given away to
any third party.












****************************************************
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****************************************************
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 11:11:57 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 6.38: NAI [PGP] FlipFlop Back to Pro Key Recovery Group
Message-ID: <199811160253.SAA01011@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: "Ama-gi ISPI" 
Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 6.38: NAI [PGP] FlipFlop Back to Pro Key Recovery Group
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 00:50:46 -0800
To: 

ISPI Clips 6.38: NAI [PGP] FlipFlop Back to Pro Key Recovery Group
News & Info from the Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI)
Friday November 13, 1998
ISPI4Privacy@ama-gi.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This From: WIRED News, November 12, 1998
http://www.wired.com

NAI Back in Key Recovery Group
http://www.wired.com/news/print_version/technology/story/16219.html?wnpg=al
l

Wired News Report

Computer-security giant Network Associates Inc. has quietly rejoined a
global coalition promoting a controversial technology that could give the
US government access to encrypted data.

Network Associates [ http://www.nai.com/ ], which owns cryptography
software firm PGP and firewall vendor Trusted Information Systems, dropped
out of the Key Recovery Alliance [ http://www.kra.org/ ] last December to
protect the PGP brand, which some civil-liberties advocates say was tainted
by its association with the alliance.

Activists charge that the alliance promotes technology that poses a threat
to civil liberties. The alliance says it is not a lobbying group but does
support the concept of key recovery, a system in which a copy of the secret
key that unlocks scrambled data is placed in escrow.

"We would assume that the acquisition of Trusted Information Systems would
be a contributing factor with the change of that policy," said David Sobel
of the Electronic Privacy Information Center.

"TIS is widely regarded as the originator of the whole concept of key
escrow," Sobel said. Several executives are former employees of the
National Security Agency, which is believed to be a prime advocate of key
recovery in Washington.

Currently, the Clinton administration bars the export of strong encryption
products that do not include a key-recovery component. The policy has long
irked security software companies who see the policy as giving foreign
competition an unfair advantage.

Civil liberties advocates dislike key recovery because they feel it is the
start of a slippery slope toward so-called mandatory key recovery, which
would give the government access to private data.

While the Key Recovery Alliance says it is not a political action committee
or lobbying group, the group is often held up by politicians as an example
of industry support for the administration's policy.

Last December, a Network Associates executive said the Key Recovery
Alliance created a misunderstanding about the company's position on the
issue.

"We want people to understand that Network Associates' position and PGP's
position is to encourage the government and industry to move towards a
policy that allows export of strong cryptography without mandatory key
recovery," Gene Hodges, director of product management at Network
Associates, told Wired News last December.

An attorney with the Center for Democracy and Technology said that Network
Associates opposes mandatory key recovery, but that the company may be
hedging its bets against future shifts in Administration policy.

"There are other companies in the Key Recovery Alliance who are steadfastly
opposed to the administration's policy and mandatory key recovery, yet I
think they are part of the alliance because they feel they need to be,"
said Alan Davidson

Lynn McNulty, director of government affairs for RSA
[ http://www.rsa.com/ ] Data Security, said the company is likely not
expecting negative political fallout, one year after the PGP acquisition.

"The commercial [version of] PGP has kind of been absorbed [into Network
Associate's product line]," McNulty said. "The personal verison kind of
enjoys folklore status among the civil libertarians."

No representative from either Network Associates or the Key Recovery
Alliance was available for comment Thursday.


Related Wired Links:

Another Network Associates U-Turn on Key Recovery? 25.Feb.98
http://www.wired.com/news/news/technology/story/10530.html

Network Associates Disavows Key Recovery Tie: 8.Dec.97
http://www.wired.com/news/news/technology/story/9010.html

Pretty Good Privacy Not Looking So Great: 3.Dec.97
http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/8906.html


Copyright (c) 1994-98 Wired Digital Inc.


--------------------------------NOTICE:------------------------------
ISPI Clips are news & opinion articles on privacy issues from
all points of view; they are clipped from local, national and international
newspapers, journals and magazines, etc. Inclusion as an ISPI Clip
does not necessarily reflect an endorsement of the content or opinion
by ISPI. In compliance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed free without profit or payment for non-profit research
and educational purposes only.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

ISPI Clips is a FREE e-mail service from the "Institute for the Study
of Privacy Issues" (ISPI). To receive "ISPI Clips" on a regular bases
(up to 3 - 8 clips per day) send the following message  "Please
enter [Your Name] into the ISPI Clips list: [Your e-mail address]" to:
ISPIClips@ama-gi.com  .

The Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) is a small
contributor-funded organization based in Victoria, British Columbia
(Canada). ISPI operates on a not-for-profit basis, accepts no
government funding and takes a global perspective.

ISPI's mandate is to conduct & promote interdisciplinary research
into electronic, personal and  financial privacy with a view toward
helping ordinary people understand the degree of privacy they have
with respect to government, industry and each other and to likewise
inform them about techniques to enhance their privacy.

But, none of this can be accomplished without your kind and
generous financial support. If you are concerned about the erosion
of your privacy in general, won't you please help us continue this
important work by becoming an "ISPI Supporter" or by taking out
an institute Membership?

We gratefully accept all contributions:

  Less than $60    ISPI Supporter
          $60 - $99    Primary ISPI Membership (1 year)
      $100 - $300    Senior ISPI Membership (2 years)
More than $300    Executive Council Membership (life)

Your ISPI "membership" contribution entitles you to receive "The ISPI
Privacy Reporter" (our bi-monthly 12 page hard-copy newsletter in
multi-contributor format) for the duration of your membership.

For a contribution form with postal instructions please send the following
message "ISPI Contribution Form" to ISPI4Privacy@ama-gi.com .

We maintain a strict privacy policy. Any information you divulge to ISPI
is kept in strict confidence. It will not be sold, lent or given away to
any third party.











****************************************************
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 11:11:52 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 6.39: Fed May Give FBI Access to Your Internet Voice Calls & Email.
Message-ID: <199811160253.SAA01023@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: "Ama-gi ISPI" 
Subject: IP: ISPI Clips 6.39: Fed May Give FBI Access to Your Internet Voice Calls & Email.
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 00:51:34 -0800
To: 

ISPI Clips 6.39: Fed May Give FBI Access to Your Internet Voice Calls &
Email.
News & Info from the Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI)
Friday November 13, 1998
ISPI4Privacy@ama-gi.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This From: CNET news, November 12, 1998
http://www.news.com

Fed mulls wiretap access to Net
http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,28695,00.html

By
John Borland, jborland@cnet.com
Staff Writer, CNET News.com

            Federal regulators are struggling over a decision that could
            give the FBI and other law enforcement officials wiretap access
            to Internet voice calls, and possibly access even to the
content
            of data messages such as email.

The Federal Communications Commission [ http://www.fcc.gov/ ] released a
proposal
http://www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Common_Carrier/Notices/1998/fcc98282.txt ] last
week for implementing the 1994 Communications Assistance for Law
Enforcement Act (CALEA), a measure that requires telephone companies to
provide law enforcement with access to digital call information.
But the report left untouched the issue of whether the FBI
http://www.fbi.gov/ ] would get new powers to tap Net calls. An FCC
staffer, who asked to remain anonymous, said the question of how Net calls
will be treated remains wide open, and may be decided during another round
of public comments.

Congress passed CALEA in 1994, after law enforcement officials complained
that digital technology undermined their ability to tap telephone lines.
The bill was intended to give the FBI and other police agencies the same
access to digital communications, that they already have to traditional
phone lines.

Yet the technological landscape has changed since Congress' action. Voice
transmissions using Internet technologies have moved from hobbyists'
basements and into the corporate mainstream. Companies like Qwest are
building whole business strategies around Net-based telephony, while the
amount of data traffic on public networks has soared.

The FBI wants access to these Net calls, and the leading industry proposal
being reviewed by the FCC allows this. But civil liberties groups warn that
this access goes beyond the original law's bounds, which don't apply well
to Internet communications.

"Congress said very explicitly that the CALEA law was not intended to apply
to Internet communications," said Barry Steinhardt, president of the
Electronic Frontier Foundation. "Over the long term this is the ability to
get packet-switched data, not just voice information."

The sticking point lies in the way that law enforcement gets its power to
tap lines, and in the way that permission fails to translate into the world
of the Internet.

Many people associate a wiretap with a listening post able to overhear the
entire content of a call. This type of tap requires a law enforcement
agency to meet a fairly high standard of evidence, to show it needs access
to a certain phone line.

But the vast majority of wiretaps fall into a category known as "tap and
trace," in which phone companies give up information about a call's origin
and destination without giving officials access to the actual call. This
type of access is much easier for law enforcement officials to obtain, as
they don't require evidence as strong as what is needed for standard
wiretaps.

The "tap-and-trace" system doesn't carry over well to Net calls, which are
broken down and transmitted in individual packets of information. Telephone
company officials say it is impossible, at today's level of technology, for
telephone carriers to hand over the header information in these
packets--which would identify the call's origin and destination--without
also handing over the actual content of the call itself.

"For us it's impossible to do just the one thing," said Grant Seiffert,
vice president of governmental relations for the Telecommunications
Industry Association
[ http://www.tiaonline.org/ ]. "Once you've opened the can of worms, the
whole can stays open."

The EFF, along with the Center for Democracy and Technology (CDT), the
American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), and the Electronic Privacy
Information Center(EPIC), have lobbied the FCC hard to keep Net calls out
of the wiretapping law for this reason.

"The FBI is saying, 'Trust us, give us the whole message and we'll strip
out the call content,'" Steinhardt said. "We just don't trust them."

For its part, the FBI says it needs access to the Net calls, or criminals
will be able to hide in the telecommunications loophole. Officials have
repeatedly said they will not violate court orders to look at the content
of calls or data messages

The argument doesn't sway civil liberties groups. "If it's not feasible,
the telcos shouldn't have to hand the information over," Steinhardt said.
"[The FBI] shouldn't be given access to information they're not entitled
to."

Comments on the issue of tapping Net calls, as well as the rest of the
FCC's digital wiretapping plan, are due December 14. Telephone companies
are not required to comply with the CALEA provisions until June 30, 2000.


Related news stories
• Dutch ISPs could face wiretap law April 14, 1998
http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,21084,00.html?st.ne.ni.rel

• FBI wiretap plan scrutinized February 16, 1998
http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,19177,00.html?st.ne.ni.rel

• Dutch ISP won't tap email November 14, 1997
http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,16395,00.html?st.ne.ni.rel

• Watchdogs howl at FBI wiretap plans August 11, 1997
http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,13264,00.html?st.ne.ni.rel

Copyright (c) 1995-98 CNET, Inc.


--------------------------------NOTICE:------------------------------
ISPI Clips are news & opinion articles on privacy issues from
all points of view; they are clipped from local, national and international
newspapers, journals and magazines, etc. Inclusion as an ISPI Clip
does not necessarily reflect an endorsement of the content or opinion
by ISPI. In compliance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed free without profit or payment for non-profit research
and educational purposes only.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

ISPI Clips is a FREE e-mail service from the "Institute for the Study
of Privacy Issues" (ISPI). To receive "ISPI Clips" on a regular bases
(up to 3 - 8 clips per day) send the following message  "Please
enter [Your Name] into the ISPI Clips list: [Your e-mail address]" to:
ISPIClips@ama-gi.com  .

The Institute for the Study of Privacy Issues (ISPI) is a small
contributor-funded organization based in Victoria, British Columbia
(Canada). ISPI operates on a not-for-profit basis, accepts no
government funding and takes a global perspective.

ISPI's mandate is to conduct & promote interdisciplinary research
into electronic, personal and  financial privacy with a view toward
helping ordinary people understand the degree of privacy they have
with respect to government, industry and each other and to likewise
inform them about techniques to enhance their privacy.

But, none of this can be accomplished without your kind and
generous financial support. If you are concerned about the erosion
of your privacy in general, won't you please help us continue this
important work by becoming an "ISPI Supporter" or by taking out
an institute Membership?

We gratefully accept all contributions:

  Less than $60    ISPI Supporter
          $60 - $99    Primary ISPI Membership (1 year)
      $100 - $300    Senior ISPI Membership (2 years)
More than $300    Executive Council Membership (life)

Your ISPI "membership" contribution entitles you to receive "The ISPI
Privacy Reporter" (our bi-monthly 12 page hard-copy newsletter in
multi-contributor format) for the duration of your membership.

For a contribution form with postal instructions please send the following
message "ISPI Contribution Form" to ISPI4Privacy@ama-gi.com .

We maintain a strict privacy policy. Any information you divulge to ISPI
is kept in strict confidence. It will not be sold, lent or given away to
any third party.













****************************************************
To subscribe or unsubscribe, email:
     majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com
with the message:
     (un)subscribe ignition-point email@address

or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email@address
****************************************************
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****************************************************




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 11:10:27 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: [FP] Governors push national ID plan - WND
Message-ID: <199811160253.SAA01034@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: "ScanThisNews" 
Subject: IP: [FP] Governors push national ID plan - WND
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 07:44:40 -0600
To: ignition-point@majordomo.pobox.com


SCAN THIS NEWS

FRIDAY
NOVEMBER 13, 1998

[excerpts from:]
Governors push national ID plan
Rewrite of executive order could be key

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_exnews/19981113_xex_governors_pu.shtml

 By David M. Bresnahan
 Copyright 1998 WorldNetDaily.com

The National Governors Association would like to have a national ID system,
and plans to work with the White House to reinstate Executive Order 13083 to
make that a reality.

The bipartisan NGA is claiming much of the credit for stopping Executive
Order 13083, but they also plan to help craft a revised version of the order
that will alter the relationship between states and the federal government.

An internal document used by the NGA to inform all governors of their goals
and objectives was made available to WorldNetDaily, along with a "Fact Sheet
on Federalism" used by the White House staff. Both documents were provided
by a Republican source.

Each document shows that both the White House, and the nation's Governors,
plan to put the currently suspended executive order into effect.

 [snip]

"This is because of demands by citizens, businesses, and the federal
government to make all government more accessible and open," claims the NGA.
"Pressures for uniformity and simplification come from globalization in
trade and telecommunications policy, regional environmental quality
solutions, and a greater need for some type of personal identification
mechanism to combat fraud, crime, illegal immigration, and mismanagement of
funds.

 [snip]

Congress passed the "Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility
Act of 1996," which authorized the National Highway Traffic Safety
Administration of the Department of Transportation to establish a national
ID system through the use of driver's licenses. Those guidelines are spelled
out in Section 656 (b) of the act. They include the use of Social Security
numbers on all licenses, and in all data bases beginning Oct. 1, 2000.

The act also calls for digitized biometric information to be a part of each
license, or "smart card." The biometric information will include
fingerprints, retina scans, DNA prints, and other similar information.

Thousands of letters of protest were received by the Department of
Transportation during a public comment period, which concluded in October.
The exposure of the plan in WorldNetDaily, and the outcry that followed,
prompted Congress to place a moratorium on the national ID, as well as the
medical ID law.

 [snip]

Congress included three clauses in the omnibus appropriations bill to
withhold funds for implementation of the national ID, medical ID and
Executive Order 13083. Apparently the governors are not pleased with those
actions, according to their document.

 [snip]

The documents obtained by WorldNetDaily clearly show that the NGA would like
to facilitate a national ID system, and the organization believes Executive
Order 13083, with some revisions, is needed to facilitate that.

------------------------------------------
David M. Bresnahan (David@talkusa.com) is a contributing editor of
WorldNetDaily.com, is the author of "Cover Up: The Art and Science of
Political Deception," and offers a monthly newsletter "Talk USA
Investigative Reports."

David M. Bresnahan - Investigative Journalist
P.O. Box 1168, West Jordan, UT 84084-7168
off: (801) 562-5362
fax: (801) 562-1341
book orders: 800-338-8824
website: http://talkusa.com
e-mail: david@talkusa.com
------------------------------------------

For more on the NGA, go to their web page at:

http://www.nga.org/

where you'll find articles on such tipics as:

"o Voice of the Governors: 50 States Surge Past Deadline To Extend Children'
s Health

"o News: Governors Report on Legislative Record and Condition of the
Federal-State Partnership

"o Policy Forum: New Flexibility, New Opportunities: Strengthening
State-Local Workforce Systems Using the Workforce Investment Act

[Thanks to Jim Groom for the article link]
=======================================================================
Don't believe anything you read on the Net unless:
1) you can confirm it with another source, and/or
2) it is consistent with what you already know to be true.
=======================================================================
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 11:10:44 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: U.S. Must Re-Think Strategy to Counter WMD Threat
Message-ID: <199811160253.SAA01045@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: U.S. Must Re-Think Strategy to Counter WMD Threat
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 14:14:50 -0600
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  US Newswire
http://www.usnewswire.com/topnews/Current_Releases/1113-110.txt

Weapons Expert: U.S. Must Re-Think Military Strategy 
U.S. Newswire
13 Nov 11:04

 Weapons Expert: U.S. Must Re-Think Military Strategy to Counter Weapons of
Mass Destruction Threat
 To: National Desk
 Contact: Paige McMahon, 301-320-8053.

   WASHINGTON, Nov. 13 /U.S. Newswire/ -- The United States
must devise a military force structure that makes possible
a rapid response to future crises involving the manufacture and use
of weapons of mass destruction (WMD), according to Dr. Robert W.
Chandler, an expert in the strategic use of WMD and author of the
just-published The New Face of War (AMCODA).

   "The U.S. military mindset is rooted in conventional warfighting
tactics," said Chandler, a retired U.S. Air Force colonel and former
NATO advisor. "While we're waiting for carriers to get in position
and making sure our fighters have a place to park, Iraq is working
feverishly to hide and disperse the targets, which are the labs and
equipment they use to manufacture biological and chemical weapons. At
this moment, they're unbolting machinery and moving it to sheds, to
civilian residential areas, and out into the desert. By the time we
get around to bombing the factories, they will be empty."

   "Wouldn't it be nice to destroy their weapons of mass destruction
before they are hidden? Targets are perishable, like vegetables and
fruit. If you wait too long to destroy them, by the time you hit the
target it's rotten. That is to say, they've been altered to the point
where they have little or no value," said Chandler, who predicted
Iraq's intent to use weapons of mass destruction to alter the balance
of power in the region in his first book, Tomorrow's War, Today's
Decisions (AMCODA, 1996).

   "Absent a U.S. ability to strike quickly and deliberately, we have
no choice but Saddam's current game, where he plays the Roadrunner
and we are the wiley coyote," Chandler said. "Saddam Hussein sees
peace with U.N. weapons inspections as a losing proposition. From his
perspective, the only chance to end the hated weapons inspections and
end the U.N.'s economic sanctions is to force his countrymen to
endure another bombing in the anticipation that it will satisfy world
opinion, and lead to the lifting of sanctions. Dictators like Saddam
Hussein need to pay off those who keep them in power military,
police, and other elites with economic rewards. The sanctions cut
into that ability and weaken his grip.

   "The U.S. must create a Global Reconnaissance and Strike
Complex to develop the military strategy and fighting forces
necessary to meet the challenges of WMD proliferation. We must
mass firepower, not forces, and we must make time work to our
advantage."

   ------
   Dr. Chandler lives and works in McLean, Va., and is available for
broadcast and print interviews.  You may contact Chandler directly
at his office, 703-356-6927 (evenings/weekends: 703-883-0324).
For more information, contact Paige McMahon, 301-320-8053.

 -0-
 /U.S. Newswire  202-347-2770/
 11/13 11:04

Copyright 1998, U.S. Newswire
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 11:11:59 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Meteorites swarming toward us
Message-ID: <199811160253.SAA01056@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Meteorites swarming toward us
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 11:35:17 -0600
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  Connecticut Post
http://www.connpost.com/local3.html

 Meteorites swarming toward us 

 Saturday, November 14, 1998

 By MARIAN GAIL BROWN
 Staff writer 

 Early next week you might switch on your television only to be greeted by
a big blank screen. When you pick up the phone to blast the place that sold
you the thing, the line is dead. 

 You get in your car to return that worthless object. You want the quickest
route, so you hit a switch that displays a map, using a global positioning
satellite, to direct you. 

 Nothing happens. 

 Is this Armageddon? Have aliens from outer space finally taken over? Well,
the truth is out there. ... Cue the X-Files music. ... It's the peak of the
Leonid meteor storm, arriving in our hemisphere early Tuesday and
astronomers say it promises to be this millennium's last great pyrotechnic
pageant in space . 

 Thousands of meteors -remnants of comet Temple-Tuttle - will bombard upper
levels of the Earth's atmosphere. While these shooting stars are expected
to put on quite a light show, there is a down side. The meteors are the
single greatest natural threat to 500-plus Earth-orbiting satellites. And
some scientists say they could play havoc with satellites that deal with
communication, navigation and spy technology. When the last major Leonid
meteor shower took place in 1966, there were only a handful of satellites
in space. 

 Some 350 of the 500-plus orbiting satellites have a 5 percent chance of
being struck by meteors or knocked out of service, according to projections. 

 "It's like firing a thin shotgun blast into a really big flock of geese,"
says Ernie Hildner, director of the Space Environment Center, a division of
the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration that provides weather
reports on space. "Everyone knows some of them are going to get killed or
hurt. It's just a matter of waiting and seeing because we know it's going
to happen, but we don't know which satellites it will affect." 

 With plans by government and commercial industry to launch 1,200
additional satellites within the next 10 years, "space is definitely
getting crowded," says Greg Hughes, a spokesman for The Aerospace Corp. The
company, based in El Segundo, Calif., provides primary engineering,
oversight and scientific expertise for all Department of Defense space
launches. "And there's supposed to be another meteor shower next November.
So, the question is: will this factor into satellite launches? We hope it
will, because space is gradually becoming more crowded and the next time a
major Leonid shower comes around in another 33 years, we may not be so
lucky." 

 To protect their multibillion- dollar investment in space, satellite
owners have tilted many of their satellites so their solar panels don't
take a direct hit. For instance, the Hubble telescope, made in Connecticut,
will be shifted so that it faces away from the meteor showers. 

 "The satellites that are up there are changing their orientation,
especially if they have sensitive instrumentation," says Russell Patera,
senior engineering specialist with the Center for Orbital Re-entry and
Debris Studies. "That means that these satellites will be facing with their
edges out. So, that if they are hit, hopefully, it will only be a glancing
blow." 

 More troublesome than a direct hit, perhaps, is the damage the space
debris from comet Temple- Tuttle does. 

 "It can vaporize into a thin plasma that short-circuits the electrical
impulses of a satellite," Patera says, adding that such a disturbance also
could knock out satellite transmissions. 

 And what happens in the minutes after such an event could be critical to
whether a satellite can be repaired, Patera says. "That's why satellite
engineers everywhere will be constantly on call to protect their company's
investments. There has already been a lot of pre-planning as to what to do
[in a worst-case scenario], he says. "But everybody will be on the alert." 

 The particles, burned off from comet Temple-Tuttle's 33-year orbit around
the sun, will drizzle down on any spacecraft or satellites orbiting high up
in Earth's atmosphere as close as 200 to 24,000 miles from Earth. 

 Instead of seeing a smattering of meteors or, as they are more commonly
known, shooting stars, stargazers in some parts of the world could see as
many as 200 to 5,000 an hour, a veritable galactic fireworks display. The
best viewing will be in Asia for this shower. 

 For his part, Bob Crelin, 39, a graphic designer from Branford, is looking
forward to the shooting-star show. 

 "All you need is a blanket, some heavy clothes, something warm to drink
and a really dark sky, away from the city lights," says Crelin of the
Astronomical Society of New Haven. 

 "It's best viewed without a telescope or binoculars because meteor showers
occur across a vast distance. So you want to be able to see the whole sky,
not an isolated part of it," Crelin says. "That's the best way to
appreciate a shooting star, seeing it streak across the horizon." 

 Crelin recalls the excitement of seeing a Perseid meteor shower as a child
growing up in the 1960s as though it were yesterday. 

 "I was on Cape Cod with my parents and we were driving back from someplace
for dinner," Crelin says. "I looked out [of the window] and it was like
literally raining stars all around us. They were streaking across the sky.
And I remember thinking that this was some kind of giant fireworks show at
first because this was the summer. I was just totally jazzed." 

 Perhaps, that's what fuels his interest in astronomy. These days, Crelin
owns four telescopes, some so powerful that they enable him to see beyond
the Milky Way and our own galaxy. 

 "I have one that lets me see things that are 50 million light years away,"
says Crelin, adding that for the Leonid shower he will take his own advice
and leave all his telescopes at home. 

 For his part, Michael Dzubaty, a medical office manager from West Haven,
plans to camp out in a nearby park from midnight to about dawn. 

 "This is the peak part of the Leonid period, which occurs only once every
33 years. Usually, what happens is you have a double shot of intense meteor
showers" in two consecutive Novembers, Dzubaty says. No one is really sure
whether this year's Leonid shower will be better than the 1999 one. "So,
you don't want to take any chances missing either of them." 

 But if you've seen one batch of shooting stars haven't you seen them all?
"It's hard to put into words, but nah," says the 51-year-old amateur
astronomer. "Imagine a series of shooting stars and then every once in a
while a colossal fire ball like from out of 'Deep Impact' or 'Armageddon.'" 

Connecticut Post
410 State Street
Bridgeport, CT 06604
203-330-6456 

(c) 1998 Connecticut Post.
-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 02:52:34 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199811151830.TAA09841@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



9 Nov 98
Carl Johnson #05987-196
P.O. Box 4000, Springfield, Missouri 65801-4000

I thought that given the fact that The Kontrollers seem
to be Lying Out of Their Dirty Little AssHoles (TM) at every
turn, in regard to my incarceration and legal situation,
that I might as well use my time in Prison to improve my
knowledge of Law & Politics.

I am assuming that The Usual (TM) legal defenses are not
an option for me, since my Public    Defender   seems to be 
too ashamed of his role in my Legal Case that he has not 
once contacted me.

Perhaps it would be best for me to study the possibility 
of presenting an SOG-Z0G AmericaLand of the The Freeh 
Defense (TM).

If you know of any Cpunx Shit Disturbers who are familiar
with Zionist Occupational Government concepts literature 
and legal defense histories, I would be happy to study 
whatever material they could send me.

(Information from The Flat Earth Society would also
come in handy, to prepare a Back Up Defense, eh?)

Tell Zog that Chuck and Squeaky say, "High!"

CJ




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 09:04:19 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Could E.M. Cordian be Matt Blaze in Disguise? (Nah!)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199811160044.TAA15729@camel14.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Robert Hettinga wrote:

>I fixed my problem with Mr. McLellan this morning, though. Mr. McLellan can
>crusade against threats to his world view on someone else's list, I figure.

Ye gods, Robert, what'd you do to Vin, told TRW the facts of his Ponzi,
sent his name to the IRS assassin bot with e-$3, broadcast his secret key,
revealed his criminal nyms, told his deadbeat kids where he really hides, 
scrambled his biometrics so he'd never access offshore stashes, 
crayoned his sweetie's moniker, skills and number on John Glenn's
overalls, or merely plonked, readied, aimed as is the privilege of 
demigodish ganglia atwitching.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 02:57:23 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: DES Trolls
In-Reply-To: <199811151736.LAA28829@wire.insync.net>
Message-ID: <199811151841.TAA10404@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>>>>> "Mr. Rougé" == Eric Cordian  burbled:

  > Continued such antics will be met with an appropriate legal response.

All together now.  "Bwahahahahahahhahaahah!" ;-)

-- BobMonger ;-)




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 10:16:55 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: update.402 (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811160146.TAA08818@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 14:04:23 -0500 (EST)
> From: physnews@aip.org (AIP listserver)
> Subject: update.402

> PHYSICS NEWS UPDATE                         
> The American Institute of Physics Bulletin of Physics News
> Number 402  November 13, 1998   by Phillip F. Schewe and Ben
> Stein
> 
> IMMISCIBLE QUANTUM LIQUIDS.  The wavelike overlap of
> cooled alkali atoms known as Bose Einstein condensation (BEC)
> represents a new form of condensed matter in which physicists can
> pursue studies of fluid dynamics, sound propagation, persistent
> currents, and many of the coherence phenomena occurring in other
> "super" states such as superfluids and superconductors. One notable
> BEC innovation introduced in the past year by Wolfgang Ketterle
> and his colleagues at MIT was the development of an all-optical trap
> (Update 362)  which can hold condensate atoms in a number of
> distinct (hyperfine) internal states.  And just as helium-3 (which has
> a magnetic substructure) is a more complex superfluid than
> nonmagnetic helium-4, so the multi-component MIT condensate
> ought to exhibit behavior not seen in single-component BEC. 
> Indeed, at the New Horizons in Science meeting in Boston last week
> Ketterle reported that when he immersed his BEC in a uniform
> magnetic field and a stream of radio waves, those portions of the
> condensate in different hyperfine states (m=0 and m=1) quickly
> segregated themselves into alternating domains (differing in energies
> equivalent to only a few nanokelvins) as if they were oil and
> vinegar. Furthermore, these layers unexpectedly persist; in effect
> this arrangement of the condensate constitutes a metastable
> macroscopically occupied excited state.

> THE ARROW OF TIME has been directly measured by two groups
> of physicists, one at CERN in Geneva
> (www.cern.ch/cplear/Welcome.html) and one at Fermilab
> (http://fnphyx-www.fnal.gov/experiments/ktev/ktev.html) near
> Chicago.  Time reversal (T) is one of those symmetries, along with
> charge conjugation (or C, the operation which turns particles into
> antiparticles) and parity (or P, the reversal of a particle's
> coordinates from x,y,z to -x,-y,-z) that were once thought to be
> preserved in interactions at the atomic level.  But then experiments
> showed that P, C, and the combination CP were not sacred.  And
> since the triple symmetry of CPT is still thought to be valid, T by
> itself was thought to be vulnerable.  That is, it is not thought that
> physics does differentiate between the forward or backward
> movement of time.  The two groups have now seen evidence for this
> T violation in the observed decay rates for neutral K mesons. 
> (Science, 2 Oct.; Science News, 31 Oct.)

> SONIC BANDGAPS, frequency ranges in which sound waves are


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Frederick Burroughs 
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 10:25:43 +0800
To: Cypherpunks 
Subject: Satellites Brace for Space Storm
Message-ID: <364F851E.DE3676C@shentel.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


AP story explains the real reason for the latest showdown with Iraq; Satellite
damage from a brush with the lion's tail, the Leonid meteor storm. America's
satellite fleet, born under a bad sign, will be sprinkled with high velocity
fairy dust in the wake of Comet Tempel-Tuttle. Communications satellites
and GPS face the highest risk. The latest Persian Gulf skirmish is mentioned
a couple times.

Apparently the loss of UN monitors and star-crossed destiny was too
much for US security interests. With the loss of satellite services a remote
possibility, reestablishment of UN monitoring was paramount.

Residents of Baghdad will look at the starry display as a chilling reminder
of who controls their destiny.
 

Satellites Brace for Space Storm
By Paul Recer
AP Science Writer
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPlate/1998-11/15/221l-111598-idx.html
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 11:09:30 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Could E.M. Cordian be Matt Blaze in Disguise? (Nah!)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 7:34 PM -0500 on 11/15/98, John Young wrote:


> Ye gods, Robert, what'd you do to Vin, told TRW the facts of his Ponzi,
> sent his name to the IRS assassin bot with e-$3, broadcast his secret key,
> revealed his criminal nyms, told his deadbeat kids where he really hides,
> scrambled his biometrics so he'd never access offshore stashes,
> crayoned his sweetie's moniker, skills and number on John Glenn's
> overalls, or merely plonked, readied, aimed as is the privilege of
> demigodish ganglia atwitching.

 Bwahahahahah! (Or something like it, anyway...)


Nope. Nothing *that* serious. Something completely childish. He probably
won't even notice. ;-).

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga





-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 15:44:37 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com
Subject: Re: Question about anarchic systems and natural disasters
In-Reply-To: <199811111339.OAA22865@replay.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981115231531.00955100@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>Jim Choate writes:
>> What would be the responce of a anarchic system that was based on profit in
>> regards something like Mitch's impact on Ctl. America and their plea for
>> food and aid?

I see three aspects in which government affects disaster aid in this case.

0) Some of the aid is being given to Central American governments for
	distribution, rather than to private groups such as the Red Cross;
	presumably this is because they've got a known infrastructure,
	they're easy to find :-), they won't rip off too much of the money,
	and also some of the repair work is fixing roads that they own,
	If Central America were anarchist, the road money would go to
	road-maintenance companies or collectives, and the rest would
	probably be handled between by the Catholic Church and other
	international charities, plus by the local charities which would
	be bigger because they'd be doing jobs governments do know.

1) Real charities have to ask people for money to do good things, 
	while governments like the US's can just take and spend the money, 
	and tell their subjects that they should feel good about it,
	and in cases like this, most taxpayers won't mind too much,
	though it'd be nice if the Feds would buy a few less nukes in return.
	Rampant theft is a bad thing for the economy in the long term,
	but short-term incremental changes can be relatively efficient.
	Also, in an anarchist society, charities would generally keep
	a reasonable amount of money on hand for emergencies like this,
	larger than they do today, but smaller than governments' slush funds.

2) There is some synergy between the skills and equipment needed for
	disaster relief and those needed for military adventurism,
	like transportation equipment, strong people, and medical supplies,
	and if the military aren't busy killing people and breaking things,
	they've usually got the spare time to go transport food and
	medical supplies and build the occasional road or two.
	Even purely defensive military forces aren't directly
	contributing to society sitting around idle - even a
	peaceful anarchist society needs some protection against
	invaders, though there are more efficient and safer approaches than
	a standing army - and even though they'd be smaller,
	they can still be helpful.

	This synergy does occasionally pay off in other ways -
	policeman are awfully expensive resources to use for directing traffic,
	but if they're going to be walking a beat anyway to watch for
	Bad Guys and be available when citizens need them,
	street corners are a fine place to do it.  On the other hand,
	in a free society, the most common police functions are either
	not done (like drug wars) or done by the public (like stopping
	thieves on the street), and hired professionals can be used for
	higher-skilled activities, like detective work and bounty hunting.


Meanwhile, in an anarchy, people would have more money, because they 
wouldn't be wasting as much of society's resources on unnecessary 
government functions (though they'd still buy the ones they wanted),
and governments wouldn't be interfering with their businesses.

				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: HyperReal-Anon 
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 13:42:55 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Itchy Trigger-Fingers in DC
Message-ID: <3143d573c2c0be736c2caf37ceea9ff6@anonymous>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



D.C. police top list of fatal
                  shootings 

                  'We shoot too often' 

                  November 15, 1998
                  Web posted at: 8:54 p.m. EST (0154 GMT) 

                  WASHINGTON (AP) -- Police in the
                  nation's capital fire their weapons at a rate
                  more than double those in New York, Los
                  Angeles, Chicago or Miami and kill a higher proportion of people than
                  comparable police forces elsewhere in the country. 

                  An investigation by The Washington Post showed that throughout the 1990s,
                  more people were killed by District of Columbia police officers per resident
                  than in any other large American city. 

                  "We shoot too often, and we shoot too much when we do shoot," Terrance
                  W. Gainer, the executive assistant police chief, told the newspaper. 

                  In the last five years, the Post said, Washington's officers fatally shot 57
                  people, three more than police in Chicago, where the police force is three
                  times as large and the population is five times larger. 

                  Deaths and injuries from police shootings have resulted in almost $8 million
                  in court settlements and judgments against the district in the last six months,
                  the report said. 

                  "The spate of police shootings in the district this decade is closely tied to the
                  training and supervision of officers and the way the department investigates
                  cases and holds officers accountable," the newspaper said. 

                  It said police shootings began to rise at the same time the department added
                  a large number of new, ill-prepared recruits and adopted the light-trigger,
                  highly advanced Glock 9 mm handgun as the department's service weapon. 

                  On the other side of the coin, eight district police officers were slain in
                  Washington from 1990 to 1997, a number the Post said was surpassed in
                  only a half-dozen other U.S. cities, each much bigger than the district. 

                  After meeting last week with Post reporters to discuss their findings, Police
                  Chief Charles Ramsey, who took office this year, tightened the department's
                  policy on using force. 

                  He also announced that in January, the department will begin additional
                  training for all officers in firearms and alternatives to the use of deadly force. 

                     Copyright 1998   The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This
                   material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Brown, R Ken" 
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 19:52:22 +0800
To: cypherpu 
Subject: RE: SIGH... NOT!! THC tainted oranges
Message-ID: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F858D@MSX11002>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Closest ciommon relative of hemp is of course hop  (*Humulus lupulus*
IIRC) which is, as you all know, widely used to flavour beer. I believe
it already has  some THC content, or something very similar.

Ken Brown


Bill Frantz wrote:

> > always thought that crabgrass would be a better carrier for
> THC genes, and give the DEA maximum fits.  However, 
> given that 5 states have passed medical pot initiatives, 
> one over the attempts of their legislature to destroy the 
> previous initiative, perhaps the DEA has enough problems.  :-)




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Joel O'Connor" 
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 21:56:49 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: BIOS
Message-ID: <19981116133827.5746.rocketmail@send102.yahoomail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Anyone know how to reset a BIOS password on a Toshiba Satellite Pro
430CDT laptop?  Any input would be greatly appreciated.




==
Ogre bounces like sonar. . .Peace.
                  Ogre

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 21:36:17 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Question about anarchic systems and natural disasters (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811161315.HAA10512@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 23:15:31 -0800
> From: Bill Stewart 
> Subject: Re: Question about anarchic systems and natural disasters

> >Jim Choate writes:
> >> What would be the responce of a anarchic system that was based on profit in
> >> regards something like Mitch's impact on Ctl. America and their plea for
> >> food and aid?
> 
> I see three aspects in which government affects disaster aid in this case.

[remainder deleted]

The question was how would an anarchic system work in this respect, not how
do governments, relief organizations, and the general public act now.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ken Williams 
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 21:21:46 +0800
To: The Fedbait Mailing List 
Subject: BEATING THE TEMPEST
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

BEATING THE TEMPEST: December 1998



Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you. Most computer users would be startled to realize that somebody 
parked outside their home with the right kind of (very expensive) receiving equipment can read the data that appear on their computer 
screens. The receiver uses the monitor's radio emanations to reconstruct the screen's contents. The U.S. 
Department of State and other organizations spend a fortune buying shielded hardware to defeat these signals, known as Tempest radiation, after the code name for a government program aimed at tackling it.

Now Ross Anderson, a computer scientist at the University of Cambridge, and graduate student Markus 
G. Kuhn say they have developed methods for controlling Tempest radiation. What's different about their techniques is that they run in 
software, making them much cheaper and easier to deploy.

The story began, Anderson says, when Microsoft made its $20-million investment in Cambridge's 
computer science lab and said the company was particularly interested in ways to control software piracy. Most approaches call for some 
kind of copy protection; Anderson's idea was to design something that would enable detection of offenders rather than prohibit copying, 
which is a nuisance loathed by consumers. Their concept was to make computer screens broadcast the serial number of the software in use. 
In principle, properly equipped vans could patrol business districts looking for copyright infringements. In researching the broadcast 
idea, Anderson and Kuhn came up with fundamental discoveries about Tempest.

In particular, they observed that emissions relating to screen content are mostly found in the higher bands--above 30 megahertz, in the 
UHF and VHF bands. So altering those frequencies could change the Tempest radiation.

Anderson and his colleagues have fashioned a couple of prototypes that rely on different frequency-alteration methods. One of the lab's 
prototypes, built using a black-and-white video display capable of monitoring and receiving Tempest radiation, filters the top 
frequencies. As a result, the fonts become unreadable to the eavesdropping receiver. On-screen, the fonts look comfortably legible and 
nearly normal. Filtering text requires display software that supports grayscale representation of fonts, but most computers have this 
ability. Therefore, Anderson believes this technology could be easily built into existing machines, although the fonts' interference with 
graphics makes it more likely they would be included in a security product than in, say, a general operating system.

The second prototype takes advantage of the display technique known as dithering, a method of mixing extra colors from a limited palette 
based on the principle that if the dots that make up the display are small enough, the human eye will perceive the mix as a solid color. 
Given a monitor of today's high resolutions, the human eye cannot distinguish between a solid medium gray and a pattern of 
black-and-white pixels that adds up to the same gray. But the pattern of black and white is much easier for the snooping receiver to 
detect, one consequence being that the computer could be programmed to broadcast a different signal from the one that actually appears on 
the screen. The demonstration on display at Anderson's lab serves as a nice example, in which the word "Oxford" on the display appears as 
"Cambridge" on the receiver.

Aside from stemming electronic eavesdropping, these prototypes could open the way to new types of security attacks on computers, Anderson 
and Kuhn suggest. A virus could be designed to find and then broadcast information stored on a machine without a user's knowledge. The 
game of spy versus spy goes on.

WENDY M. GROSSMAN is a freelance writer based in London.

- ----------

yeah, yeah....it's old news, but a new article, and from 
"Unscientific Scamerican" no less.

Regards,

Ken Williams

Packet Storm Security        http://www.Genocide2600.com/~tattooman/
E.H.A.P. Head of Operations  http://www.ehap.org/   ehap@ehap.org
NC State CS Dept  http://www.csc.ncsu.edu/   jkwilli2@unity.ncsu.edu
PGP DSS/DH/RSA Keys          http://www4.ncsu.edu/~jkwilli2/pgpkey/

_____________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free, Encrypted Email at http://www.nsa.gov


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Version: PGPfreeware 5.0i for non-commercial use
Charset: noconv

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Steve Mynott 
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 18:02:02 +0800
To: ukcrypto@maillist.ox.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Escrow - news
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <19981116092031.A3359@tightrope.demon.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



cc: added to cypherpunks

On Sat, Nov 14, 1998 at 03:42:26PM +0000, Ross Anderson wrote:

> On his most recent speaking tour of Europe, at which he promoted 
> PGP v 6, Phil Zimmermann assured us categorically that NAI had at
> his insistence withdrawn from the KRA.
> 
> It now appears that either (1) he lied to us (2) he was himself
> lied to by NAI management or (3) NAI has rejoined.

I assume you are refering to the meeting at Cambridge University that
you chaired.

My subjective impressions of that meeting were that PZ was certainly
sincere.  I seem to recall he told us that he was unware NAI had even
orginally been a member of KRA until he was telephoned by a journalist
in his car and was opposed to this.  Presumably this was before NAI
bought TIS and rejoined (?)

I would add an option

(4) PZ didn't know -- cockup not conspiracy

But all this leads to a lack of confidence in the future of the PGP product,
which is too precious to be left in the hands of one (American) company,
whose policy is in doubt.

I  am not currently convinced by their actions that NAI are
serious about strong crypto and I believe that a truly free and open
version of PGP (GPG?) would be superior.

-- 
1024/D9C69DF9 steve mynott steve@tightrope.demon.co.uk http://www.pineal.com/

    i would rather have my ignorance than another man's knowledge, because
i have got so much more of it.  -- mark twain




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: b!X 
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 04:36:49 +0800
To: Declan McCullagh 
Subject: Re: IP: Wired News: Y2Kaboom?
In-Reply-To: <199811161652.IAA02780@smtp.well.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Mon, 16 Nov 1998, Declan McCullagh wrote:

# I hope that in the future, "Believer" would see fit not to distribute Wired
# News articles in full. Not only does it violate civil and criminal
# copyright law, but it's also just plain rude.

Hey Congress gets to insert the full test of articles into the Congressional
Record as much they want, why can't we? ;)


- b!X (Guerrilla Techno-fetishist @ GEEK Force)






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 01:50:21 +0800
To: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Message-ID: <199811161652.IAA02780@smtp.well.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I hope that in the future, "Believer" would see fit not to distribute Wired
News articles in full. Not only does it violate civil and criminal
copyright law, but it's also just plain rude.

-Declan


At 06:53 PM 11-15-98 -0800, Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote:
>
>From: believer@telepath.com
>Subject: IP: Wired News: Y2Kaboom?
>Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 02:27:52 -0600
>To: believer@telepath.com
>
>Source:  Wired News
>http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/16217.html
>
>Y2Kaboom?
> by Declan McCullagh 
>
> 12:27 p.m.12.Nov.98.PST
> WASHINGTON -- America and Russia should
> shut down their nuclear arsenals rather than risk
> Armageddon because of Year 2000 glitches, a
> military research group says in a report released
> Thursday. 
>
> Y2K errors could cause the systems to go
> haywire, leading to erroneous early warning
> reports or even triggering an accidental launch of
> a nuclear missile, the British American Security
> Information Council warned in a 36-page report. 
>
> Both superpowers keep their arsenals in a
> constant state of readiness -- a Cold War-era
> strategy that could backfire with devastating
> results if the computer gremlins strike. 
>
> "If Y2K breakdowns were to produce inaccurate
> early-warning data, or if communications and
> command channels were to be compromised,
> the combination of hair-trigger force postures
> and Y2K failures could be disastrous," said the
> author of "The Bug in the Bomb: The Impact of
> the Year 2000 Problem on Nuclear Weapons." 
>
> Nuclear weapons systems are laced with
> embedded systems -- controlling functions such
> as ballistics and sensors -- that have not been
> declared free from Y2K worries, the report says.
> Most missles also keep track of time since the
> last monthly or yearly servicing, which could
> transform weapons into plutonium-packed
> paperweights if the systems shut down on 1
> January 2000. 
>
> A Defense Department official, who spoke on
> condition of anonymity, said nuclear weapons
> systems have received the Pentagon's full
> attention and will be in good shape. He added
> that military leaders are already discussing Y2K
> issues with their Russian counterparts. 
>
> Those assurances are not enough to allay the
> fears of Michael Kraig, the report's author. 
>
> "There are two problems together that make up
> one big problem: The sorry state of the
> [Russian] program and the fact that they don't
> know information about it," said Kraig, a BASIC
> fellow. "They're still committed to
> launch-on-warning and hair-trigger alert status.
> That, combined with the fact that their program
> is in such a sorry state, makes us worry." 
>
> BASIC lobbies for international agreements
> restricting arms sales and supports complete
> nuclear disarmament. 
>
>
> The Defense Department has been battling
> accusations that it lags behind other federal
> agencies in making Y2K repairs, something the
> agency's top officials are acutely aware of. 
>
> "I think we're probably going to be the poster
> child for failure," John Hamre, deputy secretary
> of defense, told Fortune 500 executives in July.
> "Nobody cares if the Park Services computers
> don't come on. OK? But what's going to happen
> if some do in the [Department of Defense]?" 
>
> The Clinton administration's September quarterly
> report on federal agencies says: "The
> Department of Defense has a massive Year
> 2000 challenge which must be accomplished on
> a tight schedule. The Department has improved
> its rate of progress in addressing the challenge,
> but the pace must be increased to meet
> government-wide milestones." 
>
> The administration's report says that as of this
> summer, 42 percent of the Pentagon's most vital
> systems -- 2,965 in all -- have been Y2K
> cleared. 
>
> But numbers alone don't reveal the complexity of
> the Defense Department's Y2K woes, Kraig
> argues. 
>
> "There are severe and recurring problems across
> the entire DOD Y2K remediation program,
> including ill-defined concepts and operating
> procedures, ad-hoc funding and spotty
> estimates for final costs, lax management,
> insufficient standards for declaring systems 'Y2K
> compliant,' insufficient contingency planning in
> case of Y2K-related failures, and poor
> inter-departmental communications," Kraig
> wrote. 
>
> In the preface, Paul Warnke, BASIC's president
> and chief arms-control negotiator under
> President Carter, says: "The only prudent
> course may be to de-alert those nuclear
> systems where date-related malfunctioning in
> associated command, control, and
> communications systems poses even a remote
> possibility of accidental launch." 
>
> Copyright (c) 1994-98 Wired Digital Inc. All rights reserved.
>-----------------------
>NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
>distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
>interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
>educational purposes only. For more information go to:
>http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
>-----------------------
>
>
>****************************************************
>To subscribe or unsubscribe, email:
>     majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com
>with the message:
>     (un)subscribe ignition-point email@address
>
>or (un)subscribe ignition-point-digest email@address
>****************************************************
>www.telepath.com/believer
>****************************************************
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Steve Mynott 
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 20:20:28 +0800
To: "Brown, R Ken" 
Subject: Re: SIGH... NOT!! THC tainted oranges
In-Reply-To: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F858D@MSX11002>
Message-ID: <19981116115915.A5751@tightrope.demon.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Mon, Nov 16, 1998 at 05:17:32AM -0600, Brown, R Ken wrote:
> Closest ciommon relative of hemp is of course hop  (*Humulus lupulus*
> IIRC) which is, as you all know, widely used to flavour beer. I believe
> it already has  some THC content, or something very similar.

lupulin ... I had a friend who claimed to get stoned off smoking hops
and hop extract.

There were inaccurate claims dating back to at least the 60s that hops
could be crossed with hemp to produce a psychoactive plant similar to
the recent Orange hoax.

-- 
1024/D9C69DF9 steve mynott steve@tightrope.demon.co.uk http://www.pineal.com/

    the chief value of money lies in the fact that one lives in a world
in which it is overestimated.  -- h. l. mencken




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Bernardo B. Terrado" 
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 13:42:39 +0800
To: coderpunks@toad.com
Subject: 0/1 knapsack
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Hey guys,

I found this in a web site.
|---v
A knapsack that holds a total....and N indivisible objects....
My quetion is does indivisible means that the object cannot be divided as
dividing a grain of rice? Does this imply I can divide an array of
integers but not the integers? 
--------------------------------------------


If I'm going to use 0/1 knapsack algo then I'll just place a tag on each
element let us say 1 for true and 0 for false? which ever element satisfy
the condition?

What is dynamic programming approach (wavefront calculation)? Is it with
the use of pointers? or
different concept? 


Thanks.

Bernie




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Jean-Francois Avon" 
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 06:01:15 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks" 
Subject: Attempt by UK govt to plug tax hole...
Message-ID: <199811162035.PAA21574@cti06.citenet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>From Caribbean Week, business section, updated Nov. 15 1998 (?)

=================================================
Global initiatives present challenges to BVI

BRITISH VIRGIN ISLANDS - Proposed initiatives created for "combating
harmful preferential tax regimes" could present special challenges to offshore
financial centres such as the BVI, Chief Minister, Ralph O'Neal has told the
Legislative Council.

While the BVI Government has been cooperative with the international
community in its "ambitious attempts to create a new international standard,"
he said he welcomes the offer of the British Government to appoint a UK
financed consultancy to ascertain the full implication the proposed initiatives
will have on overseas territories.

Initiatives arose from recommendations made by the Organisation of
Economic Cooperative Development (OECD) as well as concerns expressed
by the European Union, and the group of seven major industrialized
countries, the G7. In September, a seminar was held to sensitise the overseas
territories to the attitude of the international community, the UK
Government's resolve to tackle harmful tax competition, and its commitment
to work with the overseas territories to ensure that their concerns were
factored into the ongoing dialogue on the harmful tax competition. Both the
Director of Financial Services and the Financial Secretary represented the
BVI.

Of the concerns noted by the Chief Minister were OCED initiatives to counter
the spread to tax havens and harmful preferential regimes, and the creation of
an OECD list which classifies many countries including the BVI and other UK
overseas territories as tax havens.

He further noted "the fact that Luxembourg and Switzerland, both members
of the OECD, could choose to abstain from adopting the report and from
cooperating on the initiatives but still not appear in the OECD black list" is
viewed by some persons as "proof of some hidden agenda by ... the
industrialised world to reduce the attractiveness of offshore financial centres
for legitimate cross-border business."

"Our expectations of the new Labour Government are high. All we ask ... is
to help us to help ourselves and to ensure that the competition for cross
border financial services occurs on a level playing field," he added.

A special public sector/private sector task force has been commissioned to
brainstorm and develop the territory's response to the proposals. The Director
of Financial Services is the chairman.

Jean-Francois Avon, B.Sc. Physics, Montreal, Canada
  DePompadour, Société d'Importation Ltée
     Limoges fine porcelain and french crystal
  JFA Technologies, R&D physicists & engineers
     Instrumentation & control, LabView programming
PGP keys: http://bs.mit.edu:8001/pks-toplev.html
PGP ID:0xC58ADD0D:529645E8205A8A5E F87CC86FAEFEF891 
PGP ID:0x5B51964D:152ACCBCD4A481B0 254011193237822C
PGP ID:0x6CBA71F7:485888E9FD68415A2945 ACCB366D38486CBA71F7





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Burnes - Denver 
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 07:24:40 +0800
To: Jean-Francois Avon 
Subject: Re: Attempt by UK govt to plug tax hole...
In-Reply-To: <199811162035.PAA21574@cti06.citenet.net>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> =================================================
> Global initiatives present challenges to BVI
> 
> BRITISH VIRGIN ISLANDS - Proposed initiatives created for "combating
> harmful preferential tax regimes"

Man, that is what I call a loaded statement.  It speaks volumes.

> 
> While the BVI Government has been cooperative with the international
> community in its "ambitious attempts to create a new international standard,"

First I heard about this.  Is this some sort of NWO move to "harmonize"
tax levels worldwide so that no one can escape their clutches?  Someone
should tell New Zealand, which apparently is rescinding income taxes
altogether after 2000.

> he said he welcomes the offer of the British Government to appoint a UK
> financed consultancy to ascertain the full implication the proposed initiatives
> will have on overseas territories.

My guess is that the Cayman Islands are going to buy some political
representation (as if they already haven't)

> 
> Initiatives arose from recommendations made by the Organisation of
> Economic Cooperative Development (OECD) as well as concerns expressed
> by the European Union, and the group of seven major industrialized
> countries, the G7. In September, a seminar was held to sensitise the overseas
> territories to the attitude of the international community, the UK
> Government's resolve to tackle harmful tax competition

"Harmful tax competition".  "Sensitise".  ROTFLOL.

 
> Of the concerns noted by the Chief Minister were OCED initiatives to counter
> the spread to tax havens and harmful preferential regimes, and the creation of
> an OECD list which classifies many countries including the BVI and other UK
> overseas territories as tax havens.

Countering tax havens with what?  Gunboat diplomacy?  Tax the hell out
of your citizens or we bomb you!

jim




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 08:48:02 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: Feds Assault the Free Press
Message-ID: <199811170017.QAA28789@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: Feds Assault the Free Press
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 10:34:40 -0600
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  Insight Magazine (published by Washington Times)

Feds Assault the Free Press

 By Kelly Patricia O'Meara

 A journalist and his wife have drawn the wrath of
 federal law enforcement. Their 'crime': allegedly
 removing a tiny piece of TWA Flight 800 wreckage
 for independent study.

It was FBI Special Agent James Kinsley who insisted the
 accused subjects be handcuffed and driven in separate
 FBI vehicles to U.S. District Court in Uniondale, N.Y.
 Secured by heavy manacles, the prisoners were paraded
 before media eager to get a look at the husband and wife team
 charged with the alleged crime of stealing evidence from the
 hangar where the wreckage of doomed TWA Flight 800 is
 being assembled. 
 
. . . . But something was very wrong. The prisoners were Jim
 Sanders, author of nonfiction books including The Downing of
 TWA Flight 800, and his petite, soft-spoken wife Liz, a retired
 flight-attendant trainer for TWA. The two spent hours in
 holding cells under the court house not far from where the 747
 exploded in a deadly fireball on July 17, l996, before being
 allowed to plead not guilty to the government's charges. If
 convicted, this couple, who just celebrated their silver wedding
 anniversary, face up to 10 years in prison.

TO ACCESS COMPLETE ARTICLE:
http://www.insightmag.com/articles/story3.html

-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 08:51:23 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IP: 61% of IT Professionals Plan to Pull Money from Banks
Message-ID: <199811170017.QAA28800@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: believer@telepath.com
Subject: IP: 61% of IT Professionals Plan to Pull Money from Banks
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 14:05:20 -0600
To: believer@telepath.com

Source:  http://www.garynorth.com/y2k/detail_.cfm/3072

Category:  Programmers'_Views
Date:  1998-11-13 17:53:32
Subject:  61% of IT Professionals Plan to Pull Money from Banks
Link:  http://year2000.dci.com/articles/1998/11/11poll.htm

 Comment: 

 In an on-line poll of over 6,000 IT professionals (high), 61% plan to
take cash out of their banks. 

 This is from DCI (Nov. 11). 

 * * * * * * * * 

 . . . Almost eighty percent are taking steps to minimize the impact of
the Millennium Bug : 62.4 percent plan to avoid traveling by plane,  61.5
percent will withdraw money from the bank, and 58.6 percent  will purchase
extra supplies in case of a shortage.  

Link:   http://year2000.dci.com/articles/1998/11/11poll.htm

November 11, 1998
Pointing the Y2K Finger

An online Year 2000 poll conducted recently by ZD Network News and The
Harris Poll Online reveals a mixture of confidence and prudent preparation
among a group of Y2K-savvy professionals. 

Of the 6,320 people who filled out the survey, 56.8 percent identified
themselves as full-or part-time I.T. professionals. Not surprisingly, 84
percent claimed to have a "good" or "complete" understanding of the Year
2000 problem. More than half are clear on who is to blame.

Sixty-one percent of respondents believe those who build, sell and use
computers, along with business leaders, are responsible for the Year 2000
problem. And don't look to place the blame on Uncle Sam. Only 23.6 percent
of those surveyed say they will blame the government in the event of Y2K
disruptions.

Happily, the news isn't all bad. A large percentage of respondents (75.2
percent) said their companies have taken steps toward Y2K compliance.
Sixty-two percent believe their company will be able to make the necessary
changes and create contingency plans in time to meet the Jan. 1st deadline.
A healthy 84.8 percent of respondents whose companies are actively working
on Y2K believe compliance goals will be reached. 

However, only 24.1 percent reported that the process was already complete.  

Over half of those surveyed feel they are more concerned about Y2K than the
majority of people. But panic has yet to set in. When asked to predict the
impact of Y2K only 21.3 percent said they thought it would be "very
serious." Almost two-thirds believe the results of Y2K will fall somewhere
in the middle ground between "negligible effects" and "doomsday." 

Respondents are taking precautions nonetheless. Roughly three-fourths of
survey participants have checked their PCs for Y2K compliance. Almost
eighty percent are taking steps to minimize the impact of the Millennium
Bug : 62.4 percent plan to avoid traveling by plane, 61.5 percent will
withdraw money from the bank, and 58.6 percent will purchase extra supplies
in case of a shortage.

 (c) Copyright 1998 by DCI (978) 470-3880


-----------------------
NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is
distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and
educational purposes only. For more information go to:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
-----------------------


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 06:21:22 +0800
To: b!X 
Subject: Re: IP: Wired News: Y2Kaboom?
In-Reply-To: <199811161652.IAA02780@smtp.well.com>
Message-ID: <199811162120.NAA28775@smtp.well.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



The fact that one entity is enaging in appropriate behavior does not excuse
the rest.

-Declan


At 11:30 AM 11-16-98 -0800, b!X wrote:
>On Mon, 16 Nov 1998, Declan McCullagh wrote:
>
># I hope that in the future, "Believer" would see fit not to distribute Wired
># News articles in full. Not only does it violate civil and criminal
># copyright law, but it's also just plain rude.
>
>Hey Congress gets to insert the full test of articles into the Congressional
>Record as much they want, why can't we? ;)
>
>
>- b!X (Guerrilla Techno-fetishist @ GEEK Force)
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 14:06:11 +0800
To: Steve Mynott 
Subject: Re: SIGH... NOT!! THC tinted oranges
In-Reply-To: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F858D@MSX11002>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981116162959.008a1dd0@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 11:59 AM 11/16/98 +0000, Steve Mynott wrote:
>lupulin ... I had a friend who claimed to get stoned off smoking hops
>and hop extract.

Back in the 60s (well, 70s) we could get stoned smoking just about anything;
didn't matter if it was psychoactive or not, as long as you really 
_wanted_ to believe you'd get stoned  from it. :-)  I mean, if it worked
with banana peels, it'd work with just about anything...

On the other hand, an acquaintance of mine and some of his druggie friends
decided to try smoking caffeine pills to see what would happen.  Once. :-)
You do not want to try this.  He said it hits you with all the bad
caffeine side effects, all at once.

>There were inaccurate claims dating back to at least the 60s that hops
>could be crossed with hemp to produce a psychoactive plant similar to
>the recent Orange hoax.

I have heard of people grafting hop vines onto cannabis roots,
which can ostensibly get THC into the hops while looking like an
innocent non-contraband plant.  
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matt Elliott 
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 07:17:22 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: IP: Wired News: Y2Kaboom?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 4:20 PM -0500 11/16/98, Declan McCullagh wrote:
> The fact that one entity is enaging in appropriate behavior does not excuse
> the rest.

I think it is appropriate.  Take "Believer" to court and hope I don't 
happen to be sitting on the jury.


Matt 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 06:43:39 +0800
To: b!X 
Subject: Re: IP: Wired News: Y2Kaboom?
Message-ID: <4.0.2.19981116163420.00af85b0@mail.well.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Make that "inappropriate" behavior.

>The fact that one entity is enaging in appropriate behavior does not
excuse the >rest.

-Declan


At 11:30 AM 11-16-98 -0800, b!X wrote:
>On Mon, 16 Nov 1998, Declan McCullagh wrote:
>
># I hope that in the future, "Believer" would see fit not to distribute Wired
># News articles in full. Not only does it violate civil and criminal
># copyright law, but it's also just plain rude.
>
>Hey Congress gets to insert the full test of articles into the Congressional
>Record as much they want, why can't we? ;)
>
>
>- b!X (Guerrilla Techno-fetishist @ GEEK Force)
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 09:23:31 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Non Explosive Weapons
Message-ID: <3650C67B.358@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



John,

NEW is such a goddamned brilliant acronym.

Now I'll get in trouble if I start making *major cojones capacitors*.
Mineral oil will become a controlled substance if possessed in
quantities greater than 1/2 pt or used in any manner other than that
described on the label. Vacuum pumps will be contraband. Like ROM
burners.

Danzig...
> Above all, we should stop thinking and organizing in terms of
> anachronistic distinctions between "here" and "abroad," between
> "military" and "civilian," among "crime," "war" and "natural 
> occurrence." Nonexplosive weapons erode all such boundaries. 
>
> This does not require the militarization of America. The protections 
> guaranteed in the Constitution against arrest and investigation
> can remain strong. 
>
Tune in next week when: ((( A == B ) && ( A != B )) == TRUE ) or how to
babble BULLSHIT from a position of power. Either dangerous or stupid.
Who pays his weekly check?

I can't help but think that these guys are just looking for a new "main
gig in life" that lets them shorten the commute between home and the war
zone. Why don't they go start a war somewhere else?

Here are some amusing sites - 
	http://www.ntcip.org/
	http://www.tcip.org/
Yet another infrastructure system getting ready for the hackers. Won't
even be able to trust traffic lights soon. Yet another excuse for
insurance rate changes.

I guess I'd prefer automation with fewer features but better reliability
and security to soldiers in the streets. No luck there though, too
practical, it would be too inexpensive and what would we do with all
those soldiers?

Mike

The Danzig's Dictionary
good      == bad
there     == here
imaginary == real
speech    == threat
thought   == terrorism
civilian  == suspect
suspect   == convict
yours     == ours
ours      == mine
mine      == mineallmine

Not up to Bierce specs, sadly




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 14:00:46 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981116170417.008a3750@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 07:15 AM 11/16/98 -0600, Jim Choate wrote:
>> I see three aspects in which government affects disaster aid in this case.
>[remainder deleted]
>The question was how would an anarchic system work in this respect, not how
>do governments, relief organizations, and the general public act now.

Wasn't explicit enough for you, even with comparisons in the sections?
Let's try again, then, deleting most of the how-it-works-today parts,
and flagging the new material with ++

0) 
	If Central America were anarchist, the road money would go to
	road-maintenance companies or collectives, and the rest would
	probably be handled between by the Catholic Church and other
	international charities, plus by the local charities which would
	be bigger because they'd be doing jobs governments do know.

1) 
	++ They'd still have to ask, and people would be more willing to give,
	++ because they know it's their job, and because they've got
	++ more money that they're not wasting on governments.

	Also, in an anarchist society, charities would generally keep
	a reasonable amount of money on hand for emergencies like this,
	larger than they do today, but smaller than governments' slush funds.

2) 
	Even purely defensive military forces aren't directly
	contributing to society sitting around idle - even a
	peaceful anarchist society needs some protection against
	invaders, though there are more efficient and safer approaches than
	a standing army - and even though they'd be smaller,
	they can still be helpful.

	++ But yes, this part may be easier in a collectivist militarist society
	++ than in a peaceful anarchist society.  On the other hand,
	++ even without socialized roadbuilding, there'll still be 
	++ road-builders who can be hired, and there may be more pilots
	++ if transportation isn't a licensed activity, though
	++ insurance companies (or self-insurance) reduce this effect a bit.
	++ Also, without government-subsidized uneconomical roadbuilding in the 
	++ National Forests, there'd be more business for non-road-based
	++ transportation of logging in remote forests, so technology
	++ for doing that would be more developed.  My guess is we'd have a
	++ lot more blimps than today, partly as communications platforms,
	++ though it really is faster to haul Hueys somewhere in a hurry.

3) ++ Better economies in Central America
	++ I missed this entirely in my first analysis - part of the problem
	++ has been the weakness of the Central American economies which
	++ makes it harder for them to do their own relief efforts.
	++ So much of that area is in bad shape because of US-supported
	++ military regimes, either dictatorships and juntas, or places like
	++ Nicaragua where the only way to get rid of the Somoza dictators
	++ was for a bunch of Commies to overthrow them, which not only had
	++ the devastation of a civil war and the inherent stupidity and
	++ mismanagement of a Commie government, but also had a US embargo
	++ against them interfering with the foreign trade that could have
	++ helped pull them out of the hole they were in.  
	++ 
	++ How much of this would go away if either we were anarchist?
	++ Depends on when you suppose it would have changed here,
	++ but even 25 years of US anarchy starting tomorrow would be a 
	++ major help to Central America, by eliminating support for militarism
	++ and by ending the Drug War (though that has more effect on 
	++ Mexico and South America than on Honduras and Guatemala.)
	++ Without the Drug War in the US, prices of cocaine would be
	++ low enough that they wouldn't displace food crops as much,
	++ and marijuana and opium would primarily be grown in the US,
	++ and drugs would probably be legal or near-legal in Latin America,
	++ so there'd be a lot less corruption and violence associated with the
	++ narcotics business, which would leave both hurricane-hit and
	++ non-hurricane-hit parts of Latin America better able to fund recovery.
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 01:15:44 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Haiku
Message-ID: <199811161613.RAA08773@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Dear old method,
Encryption from the old days
Security once

Read block, write block
Quickly through the S boxes
Look, no moving parts

Particle flies
Gas ionizes briefly
Hear a speaker click

Ron's bored today
Security is algebra
Algebra is good

Pretty damn great
Genie out, bottle broken
Privacy for you

--Tasty aliens certified my pugs












  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 13:56:25 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981116173649.008a3d20@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 10:38 AM 11/10/98 -0600, Jim Choate wrote:
>Your right, let me spell it out. Free-markets as depicted by
>anarcho-whatever theories legitimize theft, physical violence, extortion, etc.

Nonsense.  Governments are the ones who claim legitimacy for
their theft, violence, and extortion.  Free markets consider those things
to be bad, though in some free markets they're for sale anyway.

>They further a priori abandon any precept of social institution and
>leave it all on the shoulder of the individuals. 

Nonsense again.  Social institutions aren't a market issue,
though some services provided by them can also be provided by markets,
i.e. hiring people to do things.  They're a social issue, and 
people will form social institutions to do things if they want.
Absence of coercion doesn't mean absence of cooperation.
Anarchists are perfectly good at having schools, churches,
volunteer fire companies, theater groups, and soup kitchens,
and they still raise their kids, live inside if they want,
do fun things together, and do necessary things together.
Just because you don't have a social institution that announces
that it has the job of killing anybody who competes with it or
fails to obey its proclamations of the will of the majority
doesn't mean you don't have social institutions.

>Additionaly they abandon such concepts of justice, equity, etc. 
>because they describe no mechanism to handle these issues.

You've sure got the cart before the horse here.
Most anarchists I know, whether leftists or libertarians,
care more about justice and equity than any government
I've encountered (maybe not more than the citizens
ruled by the government, but more than the government itself.)
We just don't think a State is a good or likely way to get them,
given too much experience to the contrary, even if some occasional
groups of people have some limited success running a limited government
for short periods of time.

> And finaly, they don't even attempt to recognize
>the international interactions and cultural differences that drive them.

You're building assumptions into your terminology here....
it's only international if you've got nations.
But assuming you mean interactions between groups of people
living in different places who act different, sure,
we recognize them, whether they're across an ocean,
or a Big River, or just across town.  Doesn't mean we can't
peacefully trade with each other, and doesn't mean that some of them
won't occasionally try to rip us off.  

>They make the same mistake as every other form of non-democratic system,
>they assume because it works for one it works for all.

Huh?  I've been told time and time again "This is a democracy,
majority rules, it's America and you'll do it our way,
love it or leave it, conform or we'll beat you up."
Democracy means that other people can tell you what to do,
and if it works for them you'd better hope it works for you
because you're stuck with it.   There are other systems where
smaller groups of people can tell everybody else what to do,
which can be worse than democracy, like monarchies or slave states,
but somehow the purported "limited government" have been
much less limited in theory than in practice, and 
justice and equity are for those people who are more equal than others.

>Not even hardly. At least citizens can change the laws under a democracy.
>Under an anarcho-whatever it is strictly lump it or like it unless you're
>willing to fund a bigger gun.

A bigger gun than Congress can fund with your money and mine?  Wow!

>I'm going to stop now, this particular vein of discussion is bereft of any
>and all positive attributes when one tries to justify slavery and theft.

Wait, did the attributions get switched around here, and this line
wasn't by Jim Choate?  If not, what was your draft card number, Jim?
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 14:00:08 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981116175329.008a3570@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 10:18 AM 11/11/98 -0600, Jim Choate wrote:
>Read the 10th again you don't understand what it is saying. 
>
>It *specificaly*[sic] says that unless the Constitution assigns it to the feds
>*or* prohibits it then the states are *exactly* the ones that are able to do
>what Congress is prohibited from doing. The states are limited by their
>own consititions[sic] which are guaranteed to be representative in nature.
>The states absolutely have the right to regulate gun laws
....
>State regulation on speech, press, etc. are also completely constitutional

The 14th supersedes this somewhat; states can't violate 
federal-constitutional rights in ways that they could before it
when they had the 10th to permit them.

> If you don't like your states laws move to one you do like.
>
>That's what it means to live in a democracy, freedom of choice - not
>homogeneity (on this point ol' Alex was wrong, wrong, wrong).

Some freedom of choice - if you don't like what the government forces 
on you, move.  "Democracy" means that if 50% of the people
vote for a system like that, you're stuck with it.
Now, it's certainly better than systems like serfdom or Sovietism,
where you weren't allowed to move either, and it's also better
to have non-homogeneity available nearby.
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Nilsphone@aol.com
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 08:18:37 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Attempt by UK govt to plug tax hole...
Message-ID: <8125e8d2.3650b1aa@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



NOTE the word "harmful" below, used three times, mainly meaning
"harmful competition by offering lower tax rates".

Now, this is very interesting, if unsurprising. Theoretically, there is no 
particular reason why competition in tax rates, i.e. essentially in the 
provision of government services at a lower price, should be "harmful" in 
any sense differing from competition in supplying any other service.


Naturally, the supplier of a particular service (or product) tends to think 
of competition in his own arena as "harmful", whereas competition in any
other is generally a "public good". This is obviously nothing but self-
serving;
the putative robber barons of the last century presumably thought of 
competiton in petroleum, rail transportation and whatnot as "harmful", as did
United and American when airline service opened to competition some
20 years ago.

What makes the assertions of the British and other G7 governments 
particularly irksome is that they simultanaeously advocate competition
in most areas, except their own, and at the same time make a 
- usually implicit - claim to represent some kind of public good, and 
a claim to holding the moral high ground.

Regards

Nils Andersson

In a message dated 1998-11-16 12:34 Pacific Standard Time, jf_avon@citenet.net
writes:

> 
>  From Caribbean Week, business section, updated Nov. 15 1998 (?)
>  
>  =================================================
>  Global initiatives present challenges to BVI
>  
>  BRITISH VIRGIN ISLANDS - Proposed initiatives created for "combating
>  harmful preferential tax regimes" could present special challenges to 
> offshore
>  financial centres such as the BVI, Chief Minister, Ralph O'Neal has told
the
>  Legislative Council.
>.............
>  the UK
>  Government's resolve to tackle harmful tax competition.........

>  Of the concerns noted by the Chief Minister were OCED initiatives to
counter
>  the spread to tax havens and harmful preferential regimes............




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Jean-Francois Avon" 
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 08:04:16 +0800
To: "Nilsphone@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Attempt by UK govt to plug tax hole...
Message-ID: <199811162324.SAA26858@cti06.citenet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Mon, 16 Nov 1998 18:13:46 EST, Nilsphone@aol.com wrote:

>NOTE the word "harmful" below, used three times, mainly meaning
>"harmful competition by offering lower tax rates".

etc.

OK guys, it seems the topic interests you...  :-)

I just thought of dropping it and see what happen... :-)

Please *don't* forget to Cc me if you post only to Cypherpunks since I'm not 
on it anymore.  I'm on e$pam though (e$@vmeng.com)

Ciao

jfa


 " There can be no compromise on basic principles. There can be no compromise on moral issues. There can be no compromise on matters of knowledge, of truth, of rational conviction." -Ayn Rand


"The government has no source of revenue, except the taxes paid by the producers.  To free itself -for a while- from the limits set by reality, the government initiates a credit con game on a scale which the private manipulator could not dream of.  It borrows money from you today, which is to be repaid with money it will borrow from you day after tomorrow, and so on.  This is known as "deficit financing."  It is made possible by the fact that the government cuts the connection between goods and money.  It issues paper money, which is used as a claim check on actually existing goods-but that money is not backed by any goods, it is not backed by gold, it is backed by nothing.  It is a promissory note issued to you in exchange for your goods, to be paid by you (in the form of taxes) out of your future production." 
-Ayn Rand





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 09:45:47 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the  Foregone (fwd)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 3:50 AM -0500 11/14/98, Bill Stewart wrote:
>At 12:18 PM 11/11/98 -0500, Petro or other people wrote:
>>	Sub-contracting can often lead to cost savings. For instance,
>>instead of each insurer having their own fire station network, they could
>>all share one, and only pay a certain cost-per-subscriber.
>
>Government subcontracting can be yet another excuse for graft and kickbacks
>or it can be an opportunity for the private sector to seriously compete
>for government business, or at least an opportunity to compete for graft :-)
>Sometimes this can save money for the public, though seldom as much
>as letting services be provided by the private sector.

	We weren't talking about Government Contracting (which I'll agree
with you would be politely called a scam), but rather in a crypto-anarchic
enviroment whereby an insurer or several insurers would pay a subcontractor
(the local fire prevention/suppression company).

>>>> 	Looking different is not illegal.
>What's that, white boy?

	It's not illegal for me to die my hair Green and Pick, and wear a
Tutu and black patent leather pumps. In this case, it probably should be,
but isn't.

>>>> 	Thinking different is not illegal.
>Always has been, anywhere, any time....

	Not in any legal book in this country.

>>	Listen Fuckwad:
>>	(1) there are paved roads from one coast to the other, as well as
>>railways.
>>	(3) Most of the roads being built with federal funds are for
>>"congestion  relief", not roads to new places so troops can move.
>
>Of course they are, and everybody's pretty much known it all along,
>but "defense" was the excuse used for having the Feds get into the
>road-building business on a much more massive scale than ever before.
>Much of it corresponded nicely with "urban renewal", the 60s policy
>of making cities more beautiful by replacing black peoples' houses with
>freeways.  Once (white) people got used to freeways, they mostly
>stopped complaining about expenditures, and started complaining that
>they didn't have _their_ freeway yet.

	So it's time for the feds to get out. We can't afford more roads,
and they aren't needed.

>>	The Army. Marines, and National Guard are fully capable of getting
>>whereever they need to go with our without the current highway system, if
>>they weren't they'd be worthless.
>No, but the industrial base that keeps the military functioning
>does benefit from the highway system.

	It benefits far more from the rapidly deteriorating rail system,
and besides, we have enough roads.

>>	(2) There hasn't been a war fought on CONUS since we attacked Mexico.
>Excuse me?  Are you talking about some recent attack on Mexico,
>or are you referring to the Mexican War of 1846?

	Actually, I was thinking of the one that Teddy Rossevelt was in,
unless I have my history confused.

>Or are you contending that the Confederate States weren't part of the
>Contiguous United States, and therefore the Union's ReConquest
>of the South wasn't in CONUS?  Or that the Indian wars in the west
>weren't wars, just Police Actions, or that the various ex-Mexican
>territories weren't States yet, and thus not CONUS?

	If IRC, Roosevelt Attacked (or counterattacked) Mexico in the late
1800's or early 1900's.

	That would have been after the Indian Wars, After the UnCivil War.
Anyway, there hasn't been a war fought on the Main Land USA in a LONG
fucking time, and the next one's going to be another UnCivil war where the
roads will help both sides.

	It's a crap excuse.
--
"To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a
jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a
gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather naďve, and certainly
unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust"
http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html

Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro@playboy.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 08:42:40 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Newsgroups: talk.politics.crypto
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 11:28:04 -0500 (EST)
From: "K. M. Ellis" 
To: protozoa@tux.org
MIME-Version: 1.0
Sender: owner-cryptography@c2.net


Crack open your palm pilots and take note!  And please repost widely.  Our
mailing list (dccp@eff.org), along with the rest of eff.org, is sadly out
of commission.

DC Cypherpunks will hold a meeting at the Electronic Privacy Information
Center office in Washington, DC.

DATE:  Soon!  Saturday, November 21, 1998

TIME:  5pm

Featured speaker:  Richard Schroeppel, University of Arizona
		   rcs@cs.arizona.edu

The Hasty Pudding Cipher

"NIST is organizing the search for a new block cipher, the Advanced
Encryption Standard.  The Hasty Pudding Cipher is my entry in the AES
competition.  The design goals for HPC are medium security, speed, and
flexibility.  Hasty Pudding works with any block length and any key
size.  It is optimized for 64-bit architectures, operating at 200 MHz
on large data blocks.  Hasty Pudding introduces a new feature, Spice,
which allows useful non-expanding encryption of small blocks, even
single bits.  The cipher includes some unusual design principles."


Location:  Electronic Privacy Information Center
	   666 Pennsylvania Ave. SE,
	   at the corner of Pennsylvania and 7th in South East DC
	   Across the street from Eastern Market Metro station (Orange &
  	   Blue Line)

To get into the building, go around to the 7th street side next to the
flower shop and use the call box to call the EPIC office.  We'll buzz you
in.

True to DCCP form, we'll probably hit a local resturaunt afterwards for
dinner.

If you need more explicit directions, please contact Kathleen Ellis at
(202)298-0833 or ellis@epic.org.

For more information about the DC Cypherpunks, see our web page at
http://www.isse.gmu.edu/~pfarrell/dccp/index.html

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Blanc" 
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 12:38:03 +0800
To: "'Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer'" 
Subject: RE: Question about anarchic systems and natural disasters (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199811161315.HAA10512@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <000401be11e0$df151580$368195cf@blanc>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>From Jim Choate:

: The question was how would an anarchic system work in this respect, not how
: do governments, relief organizations, and the general public act now.
................................................


The answer is that you cannot know in advance.   Since anarchies are not formal
societies, there would exist no centralized formal structures, so therefore such
behavior cannot be predicted.   Responses to emergeny situations would depend
upon the psychology of those who are living in anarchy.  Predicting how they
would "work", when no one is coerced to function, requires imagining the
potential for normal responses available to those who are free from remote
control, who can decide for themselves whether they care, and what they're going
to do about it, if anything.


   ..
Blanc




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 11:45:51 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: vznuri
Message-ID: <199811170312.WAA16677@panix7.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



The cypherpunks list, believe it or not.
---guy

Vladimir Z. Nuri   Mon Sep 28 20:36  321/17595 IP: The virtual president
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Mon Sep 28 20:36   79/3123  IP: NATIONAL ID
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Mon Sep 28 20:36  223/9504  IP: Military's secret pla
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Wed Sep 30 00:29  143/6354  IP: NSA listening practic
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Wed Sep 30 00:29  105/4741  IP: Senate Passes Y2K Lia
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Wed Sep 30 00:29  112/5414  IP: Fwd: [Spooks] CIA Ope
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Wed Sep 30 00:36   99/3988  IP: Fwd: [Spooks] NSA All
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Wed Sep 30 00:54  141/6335  IP: [FP] National registr
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Wed Sep 30 01:01  110/4767  IP: Group 'No Privacy for
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Wed Sep 30 18:08  110/4714  IP: Secret Courts Approve
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Wed Sep 30 18:23  100/4856  IP: Army goes offline in 
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Wed Sep 30 18:25  110/4919  IP: Chinese Govt Bans Con
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Wed Sep 30 18:41  112/5126  IP: Attn Should Turn to '
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Wed Sep 30 18:55  118/5374  IP: Secrecy might be weak
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Wed Sep 30 19:00  127/5446  IP: Navy investigating GS
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Wed Sep 30 19:01  124/5481  IP: Courts OK record numb
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Wed Sep 30 19:23  112/5938  IP: Innovative Approach t
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Wed Sep 30 19:27  169/7133  IP: FW: Release: seizing 
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Wed Sep 30 19:32  308/15711 IP: Big Brother Is Monito
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Wed Sep 30 19:40  655/38595 IP: The Great Superterror
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Thu Oct  1 20:04  712/29029 IP: [Part 1 & 2] THE IMPE
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Thu Oct  1 20:17  129/5442  IP: Clear and present dan
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Thu Oct  1 20:50  221/8585  IP: Europe's Echelon eave
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Sat Oct  3 19:49  189/8609  IP: ISPI Clips 5.11: Cana
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Sat Oct  3 19:49  201/9263  IP: ISPI Clips 5.9: Canad
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Sat Oct  3 20:07  165/7272  IP: ISPI Clips 5.10: 'Dea
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Sat Oct  3 20:18  174/8292  IP: Got a Cause and a Com
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Sat Oct  3 20:23  154/7268  IP: CNS - Justice Departm
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Sat Oct  3 20:37  233/11556 IP: Wired News - The Gold
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Sat Oct  3 20:41  260/11948 IP: ISPI Clips 5.12: New 
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Sat Oct  3 20:43  533/25290 IP: ISPI Clips 5.13: Iden
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Tue Oct  6 23:51  163/7361  IP: Cyberwar: Proper Vigi
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Tue Oct  6 23:51  114/5057  IP: "The Internet 1998: T
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Tue Oct  6 23:51  165/6251  IP: Did EU Scuttle Echelo
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Tue Oct  6 23:52  191/8744  IP: Heavy Leonid meteor s
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Tue Oct  6 23:52  161/8036  IP: Fwd: [Spooks] CIA nee
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Wed Oct  7 00:20  227/8036  IP: ISPI Clips 5.15:Priva
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Wed Oct  7 00:21  200/9659  IP: "Big Brother" Watches
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Wed Oct  7 00:22  148/5787  IP: New Surveillance Face
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Wed Oct  7 00:59  273/10144 IP: SOROS: Must have econ
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Wed Oct  7 01:00  287/14344 IP: Worth Reading: Fwd fr
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Wed Oct  7 01:09  509/21869 IP: Spycam City: The surv
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Wed Oct  7 01:14  472/21014 IP: Y2K- a futurist view:
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Thu Oct  8 17:38   65/2984  IP: Borderless World Talk
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Thu Oct  8 17:40  214/10771 IP: ISPI Clips 5.26: Coal
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Fri Oct  9 21:34  181/8420  IP: Canadian Military Rea
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Fri Oct  9 21:34  366/18076 IP: ISPI Clips 5.29: What
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Fri Oct  9 21:34  171/8006  IP: Privacy, Other Issues
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Sun Oct 11 01:46  129/7274  IP: This Country *Needs* 
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Sun Oct 11 01:46  124/5312  IP: Different Approaches 
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Sun Oct 11 01:46  201/8911  IP: Oops! Police Fire Tea
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Sun Oct 11 01:46   95/4639  IP: A Poll / A Thousand L
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Sun Oct 11 01:46  133/6607  IP: Congress Poised To Ap
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Mon Oct 12 18:39  128/6122  IP: Tracking: Machines to
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Mon Oct 12 18:39  174/7869  IP: ISPI Clips 5.30: U.S.
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Mon Oct 12 18:44  144/6372  IP: Secret Marine trainin
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Tue Oct 13 18:10  259/13402 IP: Tracking: NYT on FBI'
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Tue Oct 13 18:11   76/3376  IP: Tracking: F.B.I.'s ne
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Tue Oct 13 18:16  210/9713  IP: Privacy Fears: FBI's 
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Tue Oct 13 18:26  209/9563  IP: ISPI Clips 5.32: FBI 
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Tue Oct 13 18:30  256/14040 IP: Fw: Every word on the
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Tue Oct 13 18:48  323/16174 IP: ISPI Clips 5.35: F.B.
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Tue Oct 13 19:11  420/17694 IP: "The Billion Dollar T
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Tue Oct 13 19:17  784/37858 IP: FBI Intentionally Obs
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Wed Oct 14 16:29  175/7603  IP: ISPI Clips 5.42: Poll
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Wed Oct 14 16:29  110/4572  IP: Fwd: 10/13/98 MSNBC S
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Wed Oct 14 16:30  148/6224  IP: Surveillance: Candid 
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Wed Oct 14 16:34  220/9929  IP: ISPI Clips 5.38: TRUS
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Wed Oct 14 16:36  233/11213 IP: The Road to Biometric
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Fri Oct 16 01:47   72/3457  IP: ** National ID Alert 
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Fri Oct 16 01:47   53/2539  IP: HOUSE APPROVES Y2K BI
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Fri Oct 16 01:47   61/2964  IP: ISP not liable for cu
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Fri Oct 16 18:19  167/8226  IP: Silent Weapon of Mass
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Fri Oct 16 18:20  208/9472  IP: ISPI Clips 5.47: High
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Fri Oct 16 18:19  167/8226  IP: Silent Weapon of Mass
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Fri Oct 16 18:20  208/9472  IP: ISPI Clips 5.47: High
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Sat Oct 17 20:45   92/4345  IP: FBI Says Some U.S. Ci
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Sat Oct 17 20:45  167/9391  IP: ATTN: Does Any Listee
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Sat Oct 17 20:45  116/5722  IP: One-Stop Shopping for
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Sat Oct 17 20:45   99/5051  IP: Tracking: Bar Codes/E
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Sat Oct 17 20:46  202/9270  IP: ISPI Clips 5.49: More
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Sat Oct 17 20:50  134/6125  IP: FCC To Propose Resolv
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Sat Oct 17 21:07  178/8868  IP: ISPI Clips 5.51: Your
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Sat Oct 17 21:24  268/13202 IP: ISPI Clips 5.50: Nati
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Sun Oct 18 22:20   94/4275  IP: Fwd: Evaluation of Ve
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Sun Oct 18 22:21  102/5080  IP: 'Intelligent' compute
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Sun Oct 18 22:24  123/6385  IP: Tracking: Plastic Pas
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Sun Oct 18 22:27  140/5480  IP: High-tech Anti-crime 
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Sun Oct 18 23:02  102/5080  IP: 'Intelligent' compute
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Mon Oct 19 21:10  212/9989  IP: Brave New World of Im
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Mon Oct 19 21:12  178/5676  IP: WEBSITE: Military Ope
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Mon Oct 19 23:25  234/12001 IP: [FP] National ID back
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Tue Oct 20 17:40   52/2531  IP: Privacy Under Threat
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Tue Oct 20 17:41  132/6655  IP: Former FBI Workers Fi
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Tue Oct 20 17:42  194/9676  IP: Privacy Rules Send U.
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Tue Oct 20 17:45  203/8763  IP: Biometric Weekly: 10-
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Fri Oct 23 04:12  162/7357  IP: Enhanced Ability to T
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Sun Oct 25 01:42  135/6658  IP: FCC Proposes Rules fo
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Sun Oct 25 01:42  101/5154  IP: Senate Passes Forward
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Tue Oct 27 22:21  226/9958  IP: CIA admits drug traff
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Tue Oct 27 22:22  177/8405  IP: 'Grass-Roots' Lobbyis
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Tue Oct 27 22:23  273/13170 IP: ISPI Clips 5.69: EU L
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Tue Oct 27 22:23  542/22831 IP: Bioterrorism: America
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Tue Oct 27 22:23  180/8338  IP: ISPI Clips 5.68: No D
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Tue Oct 27 22:23  117/5569  IP: [FP] Microsoft puts s
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Tue Oct 27 22:23  166/7339  IP: Cell phone tapping st
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Tue Oct 27 22:25  159/6947  IP: Europe May Block Flow
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Wed Oct 28 23:28   52/2440  IP: Electronic March
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Wed Oct 28 23:40  101/4255  IP: Congress to Get Echel
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Thu Oct 29 00:03   54/2733  IP: Crypt Wars, UK-Style
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Thu Oct 29 00:08   79/3609  IP: No dirty trick, just 
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Thu Oct 29 00:12  128/5724  IP: Wanted: Y2K Workers
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Thu Oct 29 00:22  121/5855  IP: DNA bank launched as 
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Thu Oct 29 00:23  151/8666  IP: ECHELON: America's Sp
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Thu Oct 29 00:58  868/39860 IP: New Evidence Exposes 
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Fri Oct 30 04:14  120/5665  IP: One Million Sign Peti
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Fri Oct 30 04:14  204/9156  IP: FCC Proposes Location
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Fri Oct 30 20:25  180/8027  IP: Internet Allows Lies 
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Fri Oct 30 20:25  264/14432 IP: Cyber force behind pr
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Fri Oct 30 20:26  104/4335  IP: Thousands to Demand R
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Mon Nov  2 18:57  249/12405 IP: 18-year-old rebels ag
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Mon Nov  2 19:22  118/4744  IP: Anthrax Scare
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Mon Nov  2 19:31   93/5005  IP: Sen. Moynihan Warns o
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Mon Nov  2 19:54  112/5461  IP: Privacy: Dangers of s
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Mon Nov  2 20:03  125/5556  IP: [FP] R 141331Z-OCT-98
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Mon Nov  2 20:05  119/5754  IP: More clinics receive 
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Mon Nov  2 20:12  152/6895  IP: FBI: Anthrax Threat L
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Mon Nov  2 20:30  162/7955  IP: ISPI Clips 6.03: Priv
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Mon Nov  2 20:41  175/8944  IP: Farah: The cops are o
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Mon Nov  2 21:04  346/18519 IP: [FP] The DoD DNA Regi
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Mon Nov  2 21:05  625/27262 IP: Fatal Flaws: How mili
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Wed Nov  4 16:40  174/7874  IP: ISPI Clips 6.05: U. o
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Wed Nov  4 16:47  307/15045 IP: [FP] L.A. DMV Tries t
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Sat Nov  7 16:39  176/8125  IP: ISPI Clips 6.14: Anon
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Sat Nov  7 17:44  256/9577  IP: Crunch Time for Y2K S
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Sat Nov  7 17:45  472/23537 IP: TOTALITARIAN TECHNOLO
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Sat Nov  7 17:45  120/5526  IP: Discover Alien Life W
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Sat Nov  7 17:45  162/7283  IP: ISPI Clips 6.10: Wash
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Sat Nov  7 17:45  170/7785  IP: ISPI Clips 6.17: FCC 
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Mon Nov  9 00:44  141/6402  IP: [FP] Free-Market.Net 
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Mon Nov  9 00:44  193/9192  IP: Privacy Int'l Big Bro
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Mon Nov  9 00:44  257/12935 IP: [FP] Your Banker, the
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Mon Nov  9 17:17  173/8091  IP: NSA Threatens To "OUT
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Tue Nov 10 18:33   81/4565  IP: Clinton Wants Loophol
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Tue Nov 10 20:15  130/6154  IPINFO: Re: IP: Clinton W
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Thu Nov 12 20:25   55/2703  IP: World's biggest hard 
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Thu Nov 12 20:29  113/4701  IP: WiredNews: Virus Thri
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Thu Nov 12 20:35  166/7882  IP: [FP] Scanner picks ou
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Thu Nov 12 20:50  185/9136  IP: Clinton Point-Man on 
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Thu Nov 12 21:21  218/9416  IP: Push for hearings on 
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Thu Nov 12 21:22  209/9636  IP: ISPI Clips 6.28: Wire
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Thu Nov 12 21:25  247/11048 IP: ISPI Clips 6.33: Pate
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Sun Nov 15 22:02 107/4502  "IP: Text: Clinton Continues Nat'l Emergency on W"
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Sun Nov 15 22:02 199/8908  "IP: ISPI Clips 6.38: NAI [PGP] FlipFlop Back to "
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Sun Nov 15 22:04 247/11875 "IP: ISPI Clips 6.37: Privacy Group Pushes For He"
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Sun Nov 15 22:17 117/5653  "IP: U.S. Must Re-Think Strategy to Counter WMD T"
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Sun Nov 15 22:28 135/6239  "IP: Stranger than fiction...."
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Sun Nov 15 22:31 167/6675  "IP: Wired News: Y2Kaboom?"
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Sun Nov 15 22:49 165/7151  "IP: [FP] Governors push national ID plan - WND"
Vladimir Z. Nuri   Sun Nov 15 23:21 189/9276  "IP: Meteorites swarming toward us"




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jason Burton 
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 13:46:07 +0800
To: Bill Stewart 
Subject: Re: Privacy and the internet
In-Reply-To: <199811140949.BAA21751@toad.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Something I can tell you about this..

My name is Jason Burton; and this is the URL :
http://exchange.worldaccessnet.com/dmca/narc.html 
that is posting the information..

Now, if that were you, what would you do?

Thanks

I'd appreciate any help...
Jason Burton - webmaster@starloop.com
PGP FINGERPRINT: 29B3 C18B 233E 7666 6BCF  E9BF E5A4 CD93 C6E6 A77B



At 02:57 PM 11/15/98 -0800, you wrote:
>At 04:46 AM 11/14/98 -0500, Jason Burton wrote:
>>Does anyone know what I should do if someone was posting sensitive
>>information on a website?
>>And what if the webmaster of the domain doesnt respond to the request for
>>removal of information.
>>IS there something that say's what is and isn't able to be published
>>"personal information" on the internet.
>>If someone can reply I'd appreciate it.
>>Seeking council.
>
>They don't call this The Net Of A Million Lies for nothing :-)
>
>Depends substantially on what kind of information it is,
>what jurisdictions you, the web site, and the poster are in,
>and whether you're interested in seeking legal counsel
>as well as just hacker advice.  IANAL, but there are a range
>of torts from libel or slander to invasion of privacy to
>emotional distress that sometimes apply, if you're into
>that sort of approach; if the person the information is about
>is a public figure, this seldom works, and if the information
>is true, you've also got a much more limited case.
>
>Alternatively, there's the Big Gun Flame War approach of 
>making sure everyone knows what an unresponsive loser the 
>web site providers are, though that does lose the opportunity to quietly 
>get the information to go away, even if it hasn't already been
>sucked down by Altavista, Yahoo, Hotbot, and DejaNews.
>
>Most web sites are either on big commercial hosting sites with
>relatively responsive abuse@wherever contacts, or else they're
>smaller sites which get connectivity and/or hosting service
>from larger providers.  So find out who their upstream providers are,
>and talk with them about their customer.  
>				Thanks! 
>					Bill
>Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
>PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639
> 






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: hurley bryan 
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 18:09:18 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Does anyone have FTP acess to Litronic.com?
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




I just picked up a Moniker Crypto Card, made by Litronic, Fortezza
Compliant, PCMCIA v2.1 type 2 card. Seems all the software went behind a
$600month, 6mo min, ftp site as of oct 1, 1998.

I don't want to seem like a warez d00d, I am looking for software to use
this card, or further info, but may be up the river.

Its a risc processor in a card to do fast crypto and store info on it.

Thanks
Bryan




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Frederick Burroughs 
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 20:05:37 +0800
To: Cypherpunks 
Subject: Expect the expected
Message-ID: <36516202.3AA7EE66@shentel.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


While visiting the Goddard Space Flight Center's website at
http://pao.gsfc.nasa.gov/gsfc.html
(for some Leonid lowdown), you are given an antiMiranda inoculation and
subjected to a full cavity body search:

U.S. GOVERNMENT COMPUTER If not authorized to access
this system, disconnect now. YOU SHOULD HAVE NO EXPECTATION OF PRIVACY
By continuing, you consent to your keystrokes and data content being monitored.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Soren 
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 19:25:32 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Question about anarchic systems and natural disasters (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <000401be11e0$df151580$368195cf@blanc>
Message-ID: <3651632E.E0474BB@workmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Boundary..3998.1071713817.multipart/signed"

--Boundary..3998.1071713817.multipart/signed
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Blanc wrote:
> 
> >From Jim Choate:
> 
> : The question was how would an anarchic system work in this respect, not how
> : do governments, relief organizations, and the general public act now.
> ................................................
> 
> The answer is that you cannot know in advance.   Since anarchies are not formal
> societies, there would exist no centralized formal structures, so therefore such
> behavior cannot be predicted.   Responses to emergeny situations would depend
> upon the psychology of those who are living in anarchy.  Predicting how they
> would "work", when no one is coerced to function, requires imagining the
> potential for normal responses available to those who are free from remote
> control, who can decide for themselves whether they care, and what they're going
> to do about it, if anything.
> 



Simple,  they would work anarchically.  If the guy whose house is
burning down is an assh*le, then let it burn.

Somewhen in the last 50 odd years, equality of opportunity (to not be an
assh*le), got confused with egalitarianism (all 
people get the same treatment, assh*les included).

Anarchy is admitting that egalitarianism can never work without
promoting assh*lism.

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 21:51:50 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: IP: Clinton Wants Loophole In U.S. Free Speech Closed (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811171319.HAA14962@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 17:53:29 -0500
> From: Bill Stewart 
> Subject: Re: IP: Clinton Wants Loophole In U.S. Free Speech Closed (fwd)

> >State regulation on speech, press, etc. are also completely constitutional
> 
> The 14th supersedes this somewhat; states can't violate 
> federal-constitutional rights in ways that they could before it
> when they had the 10th to permit them.

Where? Speech is a right not an immunity or privilige and the 14th doesn't
extend a single right only federaly mandated immunities and priviliges.

That is unless you're willing to let your rights become priviliges or
immunities given by the federal government. Not exactly what a right started
out to be.

The 14th is great spin-doctor bull-shit.

> Some freedom of choice - if you don't like what the government forces 
> on you, move.  "Democracy" means that if 50% of the people
> vote for a system like that, you're stuck with it.

Actualy ours requires 75%.

> Now, it's certainly better than systems like serfdom or Sovietism,
> where you weren't allowed to move either, and it's also better
> to have non-homogeneity available nearby.

True, but this is confusing a particular implimentation (however flawed)
with the principles behind it. Not the most accurate representation.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 21:51:54 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811171328.HAA15035@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 17:36:49 -0500
> From: Bill Stewart 
> Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the (fwd)

> At 10:38 AM 11/10/98 -0600, Jim Choate wrote:
> >Your right, let me spell it out. Free-markets as depicted by
> >anarcho-whatever theories legitimize theft, physical violence, extortion, etc.
> 
> Nonsense.  Governments are the ones who claim legitimacy for
> their theft, violence, and extortion.

Nonsense, in this country the people chose to give the federal government
specific duties in regards violence and when it could be used and how. It's
nowhere near as one-sided as you would have anyone believe.

>  Free markets consider those things
> to be bad, though in some free markets they're for sale anyway.

I find NOTHING in free-market theory that says violence is bad let alone
that it won't be prevelant. I hear a lot of folks claim this is the natural
result but then again, that's what Trotsky and his ilk did back at the
beginning of this century.

Simply claiming something about a potential system is not the same as
demonstrating that it actualy works that way.

> Nonsense again.  Social institutions aren't a market issue,

They are if they impact what people do with their income. Simply saying that
we're going to ignore the political and economic impact of a sector of human
indeavour simply because it doesn't if within a nice little chart is a
disservice.

> though some services provided by them can also be provided by markets,
> i.e. hiring people to do things.  They're a social issue, and 
> people will form social institutions to do things if they want.

Which takes money and time which has to come and go somewhere.

> Absence of coercion doesn't mean absence of cooperation.

Please demonstrate what about anarchy will coerce (there is no other term)
individuals to do what is best for their neighbor. In the process you will
need to demonstrate as well why other systems prevent or prohibit such
expression currently.

> Anarchists are perfectly good at having schools, churches,
> volunteer fire companies, theater groups, and soup kitchens,
> and they still raise their kids, live inside if they want,

If taken as individual instances, trying to argue from the specific to the
general in this case raises a whole can of worms that none of you are
answering, though I must admit some very nifty side-steps.

> Just because you don't have a social institution that announces
> that it has the job of killing anybody who competes with it or
> fails to obey its proclamations of the will of the majority
> doesn't mean you don't have social institutions.

Nobody claimed that Bill, straw-man.

> You've sure got the cart before the horse here.
> Most anarchists I know, whether leftists or libertarians,
> care more about justice and equity than any government
> I've encountered (maybe not more than the citizens
> ruled by the government, but more than the government itself.)
> We just don't think a State is a good or likely way to get them,
> given too much experience to the contrary, even if some occasional
> groups of people have some limited success running a limited government
> for short periods of time.

Explain how it works, it's that simple (and repeated for about the umpteenth
time).

I find another aspect of anarchism pretty interesting, that is the level of
cooperation and homogeneity it would require for people to work together.
They have to give up various expressions of their religions and personal
beliefs in order to participate, othewise they let the assholes house burn
or whatever.

Sounds suspicously like socialism where each person is expected to
participate and produce according to the good of the many.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 22:12:42 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Some interesting computational articles [/.]
Message-ID: <199811171338.HAA15187@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> X-within-URL: http://slashdot.org/

>     Linux at Supercomputing '98 Linux Posted by sengan on Monday November
>    16, @03:14PM
>    from the where-we-kick-ass dept.
>    John A. Turner writes "Haven't seen anything on /. about how much
>    Linux-related stuff there was at Supercomputing '98 so thought I'd
>    mention it. One of the best things was a panel discussion titled
>    "Clusters, Extreme Linux, and NT". There's a nice summary of the
>    Linux-related events at SC '98 at the Extreme Linux site " Note that
>    reactions to Red Hat's support options announcements included One area
>    in which Linux is far ahead of the pack is clustering. Has any
>    participant written up a summary we could post? Update Rahul Dave has
>    written a report for us.
>    Read More...
>    18 comments

>     Chaos in the Machine Science Posted by CmdrTaco on Monday November
>    16, @02:19PM
>    from the science-is-cool dept.
>    carter writes "It appears Georgia Institute of Technology & Sudeshna
>    Sinha of the Institute of Mathematical Science in Madras, India,
>    published the first design for a chaotic computer. Such computers
>    could in theory could preform trillions of operations a second. Think
>    of how fast your kernels will compile with one of those things. :-) "
>    Read More...
>    28 comments

>     Overview, Chip challange and Progress Hardware Posted by CmdrTaco on
>    Monday November 16, @10:45AM
>    from the stuff-to-read dept.
>    J Widjaja writes "Infoworld carries an article which describe recent
>    advances and challange on chip technology. This article gives nice
>    overview of chip industry direction."
>    Read More...
>    11 comments


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 23:56:53 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811171524.JAA15577@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 16:17:12 +0100
> From: Anonymous 
> Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the (fwd)

> This is the central disconnect between you and the other side.  You
> obviously have as a core assumption that people should be /required/
> to do what is best for their neighbor.

Not even close junior.

> Most anarchists would reject that assumption.

As would I.

>  Instead, an anarchist would say "The best thing I
> can do for my neighbor (and the only thing I 'owe' him) is to leave
> him alone."  That is, I have no affirmative obligation to do anything
> for my neighbor to make his life better.

You also have no right to do anything to make their life worse either.

THAT is my objection to anarchism, it has zero, nada, null, nul, nil,
none, zipo recognition of others peoples rights and an individuals
responsibility to respect them.

It further refuses to recognize that to help others is to help oneself in
many cases.

Get your facts straight (but that's probably asking too much).


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: staym@accessdata.com
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 03:08:52 +0800
To: "Bernardo B. Terrado" 
Subject: Re: 0/1 knapsack
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3651B9D4.6061@accessdata.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



A knapsack is a container that can only hold so much of something.  You
have a collection of objects with a weight and/or volume and a value. 
You want to maximize the value.  Fractional knapsack problems concern
things like flour and sugar, that you can measure out a fractional unit
of.  In 0/1 knapsack problems, you have a collection of objects: either
you put in the TV or you don't; no half-TV's.

Quoting from _Introduction to Algorithms_ (Cormen, Leiserson, & Rivest),
'Dynamic programming, like the divide-and-conquer method, solves
problems by combining the solutions to subproblems. ("Programming" in
this context refers to a tabular method, not to writing computer code.)
... Divide-and-conquer algorithms partition the problem into independant
subproblems, solve the problems recursively, and then combine their
solutions to solve the original problem.  In contrast, dynamic
programming is applicable when the subproblems are not independent..."
-- 
Mike Stay
Cryptographer / Programmer
AccessData Corp.
mailto:staym@accessdata.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: staym@accessdata.com
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 03:08:17 +0800
To: "Bernardo B. Terrado" 
Subject: Re: 0/1 knapsack
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3651BA33.7DBF@accessdata.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



P.S. If you're considering writing a cipher based on them, don't.  Every
knapsack-based encryption algorithm has been broken.
-- 
Mike Stay
Cryptographer / Programmer
AccessData Corp.
mailto:staym@accessdata.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 04:01:06 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811171915.NAA16466@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 14:00:53 -0500
> From: Michael Hohensee 
> Subject: Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the (fwd)

> > > Just because you don't have a social institution that announces
> > > that it has the job of killing anybody who competes with it or
> > > fails to obey its proclamations of the will of the majority
> > > doesn't mean you don't have social institutions.
> > 
> > Nobody claimed that Bill, straw-man.
> 
> Now wait a minute, which side was it that said that an "anarchistic
> society" was an oxymoron?

It wasn't me, I said it was axiomaticaly contradictory.

A oxymoron is two terms with contradictory meaning used together (eg
deafening silence).

  You know, that we can't have a society
> without a state?

Than anarchy is sooooo screwed.

  The state is nothing but an organization which kills
> anyone who doesn't obey its will (however that will is determined, or
> however many orders it will give you before disobedience is fatal).

That's your rather self-serving definition. A state, used as a synonym for
government, has a much broader group of responsiblities.

  By
> saying this, you *are* saying that it is necessary to "have a social
> institution that announces that it has the job of killing anybody who
> competes with it or fails to obey its proclamations of the will of the
> majority" in order to have *any* social institutions (i.e., to have a
> society).

Demostrate please. I have not said, nor said anything that implies that. I
have said that people have a right to self defence and as an extension the
need of armies and other such institutions are an extension of that. I also
believe that police should exist and should have the responsibility to use
deadly force, just not in as many instances as now.

Anarchist would leave it to the individual to decide, a bad precidence.

> *We* weren't the ones who raised that strawman. ;)

No, *YOU* are exactly the ones who raised it.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Brown, R Ken" 
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 04:36:39 +0800
To: mah248@nyu.edu>
Subject: RE: Question about anarchic systems and natural disasters (fwd)
Message-ID: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F8596@MSX11002>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Michael Hohensee wrote:

> Anonymous wrote:
>> Soren writes:
>> > Simple,  they would work anarchically.  If the guy whose house is
>> > burning down is an assh*le, then let it burn.
>> Now you know why Choate fears anarchy.
>Fortunately for the alleged assh*le, there are likely lots of people
>(i.e. _firemen_) who are willing to come and put out his fire, if Mr.
>assh*le has contracted with them or someone else who has in turn
>contracted with them.  If they didn't, they would be marked (correctly)
>assh*les, and nobody would contract with them anymore, and they'd get
>real poor real fast.
>Michael Hohensee

No-one's yet noticed that my Jim's house burning down is a problem for
his neighbours.  Not just for the fear and distress it causes them but
because the fire might spread to their houses.  Which is why we have
fire brigades. And why they are nearly always paid for out of tax.
Almost the last thing in the world anyone does privately.  

Of course, that applies to cities, not to the country - but cities are
where it's at. 

Ken Brown.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 03:51:02 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: DCS-NY: Dec. 15 Meeting: Win Treese of Open Market
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Delivered-To: dcs-ny-announce@piermont.com
To: "recipient list suppressed" 
Subject: DCS-NY: Dec. 15 Meeting: Win Treese of Open Market
Reply-To: dcs-ny-rsvp@piermont.com
Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.108)
From: "Perry E. Metzger" 
Date: 17 Nov 1998 12:54:49 -0500
Lines: 110
Sender: owner-dcs-ny-announce@piermont.com


[If you know of people who may be interested in this meeting, please
feel free to forward this message to them.]

The next luncheon meeting of the Digital Commerce Society of New
York (DCS-NY), will be held on Tuesday, December 15th at 12:00. If you
are interested in attending, please RSVP and send in your check (as
explained below) as soon as possible. [Note: This month, DCS-NY will
be on the third Tuesday of the month, not the second, because of
scheduling conflicts.]

This Month's Luncheon Talk:

	        Does Internet Commerce Really Need a PKI?
			        Win Treese
		       Corporate Systems Architect
			    Open Market, Inc.
			  treese@openmarket.com

  It is now commonplace to claim that a "good PKI" [Public Key
  Infrastructure] is the technology that will enable the widespread
  growth of Internet commerce. But what does Internet commerce need
  from a PKI? Based on our experiences with many kinds of businesses,
  we will examine some of the real-world security requirements and how
  public-key systems may be appropriate or inappropriate solutions to
  those problems.

  Win Treese is Corporate Systems Architect at Open Market, Inc.,
  (http://www.openmarket.com) a leading vendor of software for Internet
  commerce. At Open Market, he has worked on many different products
  and systems, with a particular focus on security for commerce applications.
  He has previously worked at Digital Equipment Corporation's Cambridge
  Research Lab and at MIT's Project Athena. He is co-author of the book
  "Designing Systems for Internet Commerce" (http://www.treese.org/Commerce).
  In addition, he chairs the IETF Working Group on Transport Layer
  Security (TLS), and is program chair for the 8th USENIX Security Symposium
  (http://www.usenix.org/events/sec99/).


WHAT IS DCS-NY?

The Digital Commerce Society of New York (DCS-NY) is a spin-off of
DCS-Boston (DCSB).  We meet once a month for lunch at the Harvard Club
of New York -- usually on the second Tuesday of the month -- to
explore the implications of rapidly emerging internet and
cryptographic technologies on finance and commerce.

If you are interested in attending our next luncheon meeting, please
follow the directions located below. If you merely wish to be added to
our e-mail meeting announcements list, you may send your e-mail
address to "dcs-ny-rsvp@piermont.com".


Perry

PS We would like to thank John McCormack for his invaluable assistance in
procuring the venue for our meetings.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

HOW TO RSVP:

The meeting will start at 12:00 noon on December 15th at the Harvard Club,
which located at 27 West 44th St. in Manhattan.

The cost of the luncheon is $49.00.

To RSVP, please:
A) Send a check for $49.00 (payable to "The Harvard Club of New York") to:

	Harry S. Hawk
	DCS-NY LUNCHEON
	Piermont Information Systems, Inc.
	175 Adams St., #9G
	Brooklyn, New York  11201

Please include along with your check:
1) The name of the person attending
2) Their daytime phone number
3) Their e-mail address

B) Send an email message to dcs-ny-rsvp@piermont.com indicating that
you have sent your check. The receipt of your check is your actual RSVP.
We use the email to insure that nothing gets lost in the mail. You will
get email from us once the check is received.

Making final arrangements for our room requires that we have a good
idea of how many attendees we will have. Because of this, it is very
important that you RSVP quickly so that we will be able to get a
larger room if necessary. All checks must be received no later than
Friday December 11th. If you are uncertain that your check will arrive
by the correct date, please use a messenger or express mail service.

The late fee is $75 per person paid with a corporate check or money
order. We will always try to accommodate everyone we can, even at the
last minute. However, we can not guarantee that those who have not
RSVPed will be seated. *Please* try to RSVP.

Please note that the Harvard Club dress code requires jacket and tie
for men and comparable attire for women.

If you have special dietary requirements, please check with us by
email before you RSVP.

We are looking forward to seeing you!

----------------------------------------------------------------------


Perry

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Hohensee 
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 03:42:21 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Question about anarchic systems and natural disasters (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199811171328.OAA17299@replay.com>
Message-ID: <3651C408.69196C1F@nyu.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Anonymous wrote:
> 
> Soren writes:
> > Simple,  they would work anarchically.  If the guy whose house is
> > burning down is an assh*le, then let it burn.
> 
> Now you know why Choate fears anarchy.

Fortunately for the alleged assh*le, there are likely lots of people
(i.e. _firemen_) who are willing to come and put out his fire, if Mr.
assh*le has contracted with them or someone else who has in turn
contracted with them.  If they didn't, they would be marked (correctly)
assh*les, and nobody would contract with them anymore, and they'd get
real poor real fast.

Michael Hohensee




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Hohensee 
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 03:35:18 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199811171328.HAA15035@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <3651C7E5.2C737F0B@nyu.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate wrote:
> 
> Forwarded message:
> 
> > Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 17:36:49 -0500
> > From: Bill Stewart 
> > Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the (fwd)
> >
> > Just because you don't have a social institution that announces
> > that it has the job of killing anybody who competes with it or
> > fails to obey its proclamations of the will of the majority
> > doesn't mean you don't have social institutions.
> 
> Nobody claimed that Bill, straw-man.

Now wait a minute, which side was it that said that an "anarchistic
society" was an oxymoron?  You know, that we can't have a society
without a state?  The state is nothing but an organization which kills
anyone who doesn't obey its will (however that will is determined, or
however many orders it will give you before disobedience is fatal).  By
saying this, you *are* saying that it is necessary to "have a social
institution that announces that it has the job of killing anybody who
competes with it or fails to obey its proclamations of the will of the
majority" in order to have *any* social institutions (i.e., to have a
society).

*We* weren't the ones who raised that strawman. ;)

> Explain how it works, it's that simple (and repeated for about the umpteenth
> time).

We have, haven't you been listening?

Michael Hohensee




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 05:31:24 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: Question about anarchic systems and natural disasters (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811172004.OAA16707@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: "Brown, R Ken" 
> Subject: RE: Question about anarchic systems and natural disasters (fwd)
> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 13:30:18 -0600

> No-one's yet noticed that my Jim's house burning down is a problem for
> his neighbours.

I noticed, it's been interesting the way it was dealt with...

> Of course, that applies to cities, not to the country - but cities are
> where it's at. 

We have volunteer fire depts. here in Texas (and most other states I've
been in). Typicaly they have no equipment, no training, and no money.

But, hey, they'll save the slab.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Hohensee 
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 04:15:26 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199811171524.JAA15577@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <3651CB97.A1032AAB@nyu.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate wrote:
> 
> Forwarded message:
> 
> > Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 16:17:12 +0100
> > From: Anonymous 
> > Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the (fwd)
> 
> > This is the central disconnect between you and the other side.  You
> > obviously have as a core assumption that people should be /required/
> > to do what is best for their neighbor.
> 
> Not even close junior.

Is that so?

Are you saying, then, that you aren't in favor of the "right to medical
care", you were so big on earlier?  You're saying that you don't support
taxation to pay for this universal medical care?  That's not what you
said before. :)

> > Most anarchists would reject that assumption.
> 
> As would I.
> 
> >  Instead, an anarchist would say "The best thing I
> > can do for my neighbor (and the only thing I 'owe' him) is to leave
> > him alone."  That is, I have no affirmative obligation to do anything
> > for my neighbor to make his life better.
> 
> You also have no right to do anything to make their life worse either.
>
> THAT is my objection to anarchism, it has zero, nada, null, nul, nil,
> none, zipo recognition of others peoples rights and an individuals
> responsibility to respect them.


Since when have we said this?  Just because I'm not *obligated* to help
someone doesn't mean that I'm going to do anything to make his/her life
worse.  The lack of an obligation to help does not necessarily imply the
existance of one to harm.

Furthermore, if you'd bothered to read Anon's next paragraph (and you
must have, you cut it out), you'd have seen an example of why it is in
one's self-interest to help one's neighbors.  We respect others because
doing so increases the odds of their respecting us.  This isn't a
particularly complicated line of reasoning, and just about everyone
understands it (unless, of course, they're anti-social statists, who
imagine that force is the best solution to every interaction).

> It further refuses to recognize that to help others is to help oneself in
> many cases.

You really *do* have a reading disability, don't you?  Here, I'll quote
what you appear to have missed:

Anon wrote:
:All that being said, it may be in my own best interests to do "what is
:best" for my neighbor; then, if my house should catch fire, I have a
:much better chance that my neighbor will help extinguish the fire.

Ok, Jim, here it comes.  The meaning of this paragraph is: to help
others is to help oneself in many cases.

You think we don't recognize this fact?  Hell, we *rely* on it.

> Get your facts straight (but that's probably asking too much).

Read the entirety of someone's post without reading what you *want* the
author to have said into it.  Hell, just try reading *all* of a post
before you say such silly things (but that's probably asking too much).

Michael Hohensee




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 21:53:43 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Question about anarchic systems and natural disasters (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811171328.OAA17299@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Soren writes:
> Simple,  they would work anarchically.  If the guy whose house is
> burning down is an assh*le, then let it burn.

Now you know why Choate fears anarchy.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 23:58:24 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: RE: dbts: Privacy Fetishes, Perfect Competition, and the (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811171517.QAA25352@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate writes:

> Bill Stewart 

> > Absence of coercion doesn't mean absence of cooperation.
> 
> Please demonstrate what about anarchy will coerce (there is no other term)
> individuals to do what is best for their neighbor.

Jim,

This is the central disconnect between you and the other side.  You
obviously have as a core assumption that people should be /required/
to do what is best for their neighbor.  Most anarchists would reject
that assumption.  Instead, an anarchist would say "The best thing I
can do for my neighbor (and the only thing I 'owe' him) is to leave
him alone."  That is, I have no affirmative obligation to do anything
for my neighbor to make his life better.

All that being said, it may be in my own best interests to do "what is
best" for my neighbor; then, if my house should catch fire, I have a
much better chance that my neighbor will help extinguish the fire.

>                                                    In the process you will
> need to demonstrate as well why other systems prevent or prohibit such
> expression currently.

Non sequitur.  I'm pretty nice to my neighbors now.  Aren't you?
This has nothing to do with any government.

The defenders/proponents of anarchy here aren't saying that government
prevents the function of any of the anarchist mechanisms.  Rather that
government is an unnecessary and onerous burden on its subjects.

> Explain how it works, it's that simple (and repeated for about the umpteenth
> time).

What's to explain?  As has been described on this list countless 
times, the examples of natural 'anarchist' behavior abound in everyday
life.  Who makes you get up each morning and go to work?  What is
it that (only) government does that makes it possible for you to go
to the grocery store, or buy gasoline, or go to the movies, or sell 
your professional services, or any of the other countless aspects of
life that would go on with or without government?

> I find another aspect of anarchism pretty interesting, that is the level of
> cooperation and homogeneity it would require for people to work together.
> They have to give up various expressions of their religions and personal
> beliefs in order to participate, othewise they let the assholes house burn
> or whatever.

Why so?  I do not share a religion with any of my neighbors, yet I would
gladly help if one of their houses was on fire.  I do not share a 
religion with most of the people I work with (or race, gender and other
attributes); yet I have no difficulty working with most of them.  What 
"expressions" would I see from my neighbors were it not for the Wise and
Just Hand of Government?

Or do you mean I should be /Required/ to live and work with people whose
personal beliefs or religion I find offensive or repugnant?





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Soren 
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 05:23:12 +0800
To: zeroes and ones at 
Subject: Re: Question about anarchic systems and natural disasters (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F8596@MSX11002>
Message-ID: <3651EA63.6F2CC61E@workmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Brown, R Ken wrote:
> 
> > No-one's yet noticed that my Jim's house burning down is a problem for
> his neighbours.  Not just for the fear and distress it causes them but
> because the fire might spread to their houses.  Which is why we have
> fire brigades. And why they are nearly always paid for out of tax.
> Almost the last thing in the world anyone does privately.
> 
> Of course, that applies to cities, not to the country - but cities are
> where it's at.
> 
Tax supported fire brigades are a very recent invention, and are often
still privately run (at least in my neck of the woods).  In the above
circumstance (my [sic] Jim's house), one would have to weigh the
relative risks against the possible rewards.  If Jim is such an assh*le
to live next to, I might be more inclined to soak my own house in the
expectation that Jim will be hitting the road after his house has burned
down.

Given that humans tend to go in for self-organization, there are likely
to be a multitude of societies that naturally form in an anarchy. 
Presumably they would be heavily ghettoized a-la Snow Crash, but there
will always be plenty of room for various stripes of
socialist/neo-fascists to form their own societies.  What they can't do
with impunity, is tell me that I am, ipso facto, a member of their
society.  Undoubtably they would be inclined to try, but in the absence
of a highly organized and militarized support group, in the form of the
'monopoly merchants', they will have a harder time of it.

Personally, I believe that states inevitably arise out of anarchic
assemblages of societies. Chalk it up to human frailty. Where anarchy is
beneficial, is in terminating obsolete state structures in order to
allow newer and (hopefully) more appropriate social structures to form. 
The current form in the US is rather pathetic.  A 'great society' that
has as its paramount goal the perpetuation of a 19th century
hierarchical model for human interaction. I would have said 18th
century, but Abe took care of the restructuring 130 years ago.

In the 19th century, the model for state formation was based upon
geographical limitations. The technologies of the day meant that the
territory you could force to knuckle under was severely constrained.

Starting from scratch today, it would make more sense to create
societies out of like minded individuals from wherever they live on the
planet (and off it?).  The phylums of the Diamond Age are, IMHO, a good
model for this.  This should give the socialists among us great cheer
and hope.  Rather than attempting to coerce all individuals within an
arbitrary geographical region to knuckle under and pay taxes. I would
suggest a good PR and proselytization campaign with the intention of
recruiting good tax-paying and benefit consuming suckers -- er ...
subscribers, wherever they may live.

Its not like this model hasn't been successful in the past, viz: the
Mormons, Scientologists, Roman Catholic Church, Marxism, the Moonies,
Amway, Herbal Life, and certain aspects of the music industry. Think of
it, rather than trying to disenfranchize 50 million north americans,
there exists already a highly indoctrinated group of people in China
(some 2 billion at last count) who would gladly subscribe to your brand
of socialism, even if just to get away from their current model. At the
very least, this would breathe new life back into Radio America. It
would also legitimize the need for US military troops stationed in 100+
locations around the world.  They could be seconded to the IRS to
enforce compliance.

On the other hand, maybe I'm missing the point. Maybe the use of
coercion and force *is* the raisson d'etre for the state.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 09:20:41 +0800
To: cryptography@c2.net
Subject: FC: More on Network Associates and its crypto-politics
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


X-Sender: declan@mail.well.com
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 17:44:01 -0500
To: politech@vorlon.mit.edu
From: Declan McCullagh 
Subject: FC: More on Network Associates and its crypto-politics
Mime-Version: 1.0
Sender: owner-politech@vorlon.mit.edu
Reply-To: declan@well.com
X-Loop: politech@vorlon.mit.edu
X-URL: Politech is at http://www.well.com/~declan/politech/

Cabe Franklin  forwards this statement from Wes
Wasson, director of marketing for Network Associates' security division:

>"NAI officially withdrew from the Key Recovery Alliance in late 1997. In May
>of 1998, NAI acquired Trusted Information Systems, which had been an active
>member of the KRA. NAI subsequently reliquished the leadership role TIS had
>taken in the organization. NAI Labs' TIS Advanced Research Division
continues
>to monitor the KRA's activities from a technical perspective, but Network
>Associates in no way advocates mandatory key recovery."
>- Cabe Franklin (NAI PR)
>415-975-2223

TIS supports export controls on encryption products. My article:
 http://www.well.com/user/declan/pubs/cwd.shadow.cryptocrats.0298.txt

-Declan


--------------------------------------------------------------------------
POLITECH -- the moderated mailing list of politics and technology
To subscribe: send a message to majordomo@vorlon.mit.edu with this text:
subscribe politech
More information is at http://www.well.com/~declan/politech/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: mschneider 
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 21:17:41 +0800
To: 
Subject: Discover your family SECRETS!
Message-ID: <419.436117.30631192life229@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 18:46:34 +0800
To: Robert Hettinga 
Subject: Re: FC: More on Network Associates and its crypto-politics
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199811180930.EAA005.87@whgiii>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



In , on 11/17/98 
   at 07:35 PM, Robert Hettinga  said:

>TIS supports export controls on encryption products. My article:
> http://www.well.com/user/declan/pubs/cwd.shadow.cryptocrats.0298.txt

I doubt that TIS really cares one way or the other so long as they keep their fat government contracts. Of course those same contracts require keeping the government happy (ie: supporting GAK), TIS and others (being the corporate whores that they are) will sell out their own mothers (and the rest of us along with them) if it looked good on the bottom line.

A real shame that PGP had to get mixed up with these vipers.

-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
---------------------------------------------------------------





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 23:21:21 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Nov. 22 bonus column - Year 2000
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 00:29:09 -0700
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 23:28:33 -0800 (PST)
X-Sender: vin@dali.lvrj.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
To: vinsends@ezlink.com
From: Vin_Suprynowicz@lvrj.com (Vin Suprynowicz)
Subject: Nov. 22 bonus column - Year 2000
Resent-From: vinsends@ezlink.com
X-Mailing-List:  archive/latest/596
X-Loop: vinsends@ezlink.com
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: vinsends-request@ezlink.com


    FROM MOUNTAIN MEDIA
    DUE TO LENGTH, PLEASE CONSIDER THIS YOUR BONUS ESSAY FOR NOVEMBER
    FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE DATED NOV. 22, 1998
    THE LIBERTARIAN, By Vin Suprynowicz
    I don't know nothin' 'bout no Y2K

    OK, I admit it: I've been ducking the "Y2K" question.

  It's the most frequent inquiry I get, these days. And last weekend, while
participating in an electronic chat room organized by the Liberty
Roundtable, I had the questions come up several more times: "What do you
see happening in the Y2K crisis? To what part of the country should we move
to be safest?"

  For those who have been in a cave, "Y2K" is shorthand for the problem
that develops because -- computer memory having been at a premium -- the
programmers who set up many of our mainframe computers back in the 1970s
and '80s created only a two-digit field for "year."

  Now -- starting April 1, 1999, if not sooner -- operators are going to
try to program the computers that monitor our utility grids and phone
systems, the factory machinery that generates "just-on-time delivery" of
goods, even our railroad and airport switching equipment, giving those
machines their instructions for the first quarter of the year "00."

  But (pardon my anthropomorphing) many of those computers will "assume"
the year 00 happened 99 years ago.

  Anecdotes are already circulating about mortgage holders being billed for
99 years of delinquent interest, or supermarket debit machines rejecting as
"expired" brand new debit cards which carry expiration dates ending in "00"
or "01. "

  So far, opinion among thoughtful people has been split on the likely
repercussions. Some perfectly wise folks argue that our economy and
technology are the most innovative and resourceful ever devised. Even if
your bank's ATMs go on the fritz for a couple of days, even if the railroad
switching equipment bogs down and produce deliveries to your supermarket
grow spotty for a few weeks, armies of well-paid technicians will hurl
themselves into developing "work-arounds."

  To this way of thinking, survivalists who foresee the collapse of large
segments of our urban culture, putting a premium on ownership of a cow and
a well and a garden for the first time in 50 years, are merely engaging in
wishful thinking. Generally a bunch of Bible-thumpers (as this line of
thought goes), they would find it mighty handy for some kind of cosmic rain
of brimstone to wipe away the urban Sodom and Gomorrah they view as the
cause of all their problems, proliferating as that urban culture does the
legions of the socialists, the welfare queens, the abortionists, the enviro
bug-worshippers, the gun-grabbers. How fitting and handy to envision them
all killing each other off, fighting over the last moldy crust of bread.

  And, if the Y2K "crisis" were about to occur in perfect isolation, that
argument would hold some water (even if this revelation of a nation divided
into urban-versus-rural, East-versus-West, gun-lover versus gun-hater,
would be worth some further study, all by itself.)

  But remember, Y2K is "shorthand." And as it turns out, it stands for a
lot more than just "Year 2000."

  The problem is that -- not exactly simultaneously, but all within the
next couple of years -- a few other problems are likely to crop up. Without
predicting a specific order:


    #  #   #

  1) The fractional reserve banking system that dates back to the creation
of the Federal Reserve in 1912-13 is in deep crisis. Buoyed by the supposed
guarantee that the International Monetary Fund (our long-suffering friends,
the U.S. taxpayers) would bail out any failures, our "private" bankers (and
those of Japan) have been recording trumped-up double-digit returns by
loaning billions to such bankrupt chicken farms as Malaysia, Indonesia,
Russia,  Brazil, and Mexico.

  These loans are no good. And they are pyramided and leveraged atop one
another like something out of Dr. Seuss. In this country, too, the pursuit
of ever-higher returns and the presumption that everyone can live the good
life on credit have encouraged foolish loans and investments based on the
notion that the federal government "insures all deposits," and that we can
always pay off our debts with that raise we hope to get next year.

  Once these assumptions start to unravel, the only debate will be whether
to describe the fallout with references to "dominoes," or that old
favorite, the "house of cards."

  Remember, as Jimmy Stewart explains to his depositors every year in "It's
a Wonderful Life," the current system is based on the assumption (are you
noticing that word crop up a lot?) that only a small percentage of
depositors will ever want to take all their money out at the same time.
Otherwise, the banks would be, well, bankrupt. This kind of fraud is only
legal because the government specifically licenses people to do it, on the
theory that it "creates more credit, to promote economic growth."

  2) Then comes that old stalwart, the New York Stock Exchange. Prices
there have been many times what can be justified by traditional
price-to-earning ratios for years. That sounds arcane, but what it means is
that few investors are buying stocks these days because they've always
wanted to own a piece of  Hammermill or Coca-Cola, and look forward to
reading the annual reports and living off the dividends in their golden
years.

  Dividends? Mere pennies! Folks buy these stocks today because the guy
who's selling them made an 18 to 21 percent return in 1997, and the buyer
hopes to realize 18 to 21 percent when he sells them in the year 2000.

 When the holder of a mutual fund can no longer even tell you what products
or services are offered by the underlying firms that issued the stocks in
his or her "portfolio," what you have is a "bubble." Think tulip bulbs,
Everglades building lots, Cabbage Patch dolls, baseball cards, beanie
babies.


    #   #   #

  3) Today's dollar is intrinsically worthless. First it was made of gold;
then it said "pay to the bearer in gold;" then silver, now it's a
certificate redeemable for exactly nothing. Dollar-denominated Treasury
bonds are also intrinsically worthless. They are merely a promise to tax
our children or grandchildren to pay us back in still more paper --
Libertarians call them "extortion futures."

  Bill Clinton is one of the luckiest men in history ... so far. Most
rational (non-Keynesian) economic models would predict that -- at the rate
at which the United States has been printing and passing worthless green
paper for the past 30 years -- we should be in the midst of a
hyperinflation that would make the Weimar Republic look boring. But the
funniest thing happened: All over the world, people love and respect
America as the font of freedom, and figure the dollar must really be worth
something -- certainly more than their worthless domestic ruble or zlotny.
So they hide dollars in their mattresses. Those dollars don't come back to
these shores to bid up the price of American goods. So we're fine ... so
far.

  But there's a reason why the guys who get arrested by your local bunko
squad are called "con artists." Their stock in trade is "confidence."

  Remember Y2K? Imagine now that the ATM machines stop working. Since the
nation's major railroad switching yards are now entirely computerized --
the old manual switches were torn out years ago -- the grocery store runs
out of fresh produce. Some computer messes up at the sewage treatment
plant, and before they can figure out a manual override some sewage backs
up into the reservoir. Suddenly you're warned to boil your cooking water,
like some barefoot Third World peasant. Without explanation, the phones go
dead.

  Long lines form as folks start panic-buying remaining supplies of
gasoline, kerosene lanterns, and canned goods -- price no object. There are
a few fistfights over the last rolls of toilet paper. Pressed by jealous
mobs to "do something," blustering politicians declare that anyone who
stores too much stuff is a "hoarder." Neighbors are encouraged to turn in
neighbors -- offered a reward from the seized goods when they're
"redistributed."

  Every electronic alarm in the city goes off all at once, leaving police
and fireman scurrying around, clueless. Some looting starts -- after all,
it's the "hoarders" who are the real criminals, right? TV pictures of all
this go out overseas, until the broadcasts are limited "to prevent panic."

  What has just been lost? "Confidence." Now folks want to draw out their
bank accounts in cash. They want to sell their stocks ... but how can
everyone sell when the prices are falling so quickly that there are no
buyers, and the phone lines to your broker are tied up for days on end?

 4) There is no "Social Security Trust Fund." The thief you keep sending
back to Congress helped them spend it all. Already, the retirement age is
being raised, and there's serious talk of "means testing" payments -- only
making full payments to the drunks and losers and compulsive gamblers who
accrued no other savings or assets. Kind of like taxing all the industrious
little ants, but only paying off the lazy grasshoppers. Sound like a
"guaranteed annuity" to you?

  Assurances of ongoing "Trust Fund" solvency are based on the optimistic
assumption (there's that word again) that Social Security payments by
younger workers will continue at current levels.  But what if there's a
recession, with big layoffs? What if the computers at the IRS are rumored
to be down as of late 1999? What if lots of people decide to just stop
filing and paying federal taxes in early Year 2000, on the theory, "They're
off line, anyway. If we ALL stop, they can't come find ALL of us"?

  (This would never have happened in the 1950s, of course, when American
taxpayers -- generally paying less than 5 percent of gross income so you
could still support a family on one salary -- considered it "our"
government and were proud to do their patriotic duty at tax time. But since
then the liars have brought us Vietnam, Watergate, Chinagate, Filegate,
Ruby Ridge, and Waco ... IRS auditors and drug police routinely referring
to average Americans as "scum" and gleefully seizing our homes, businesses
and bank accounts, tens of thousands of young people jailed for marijuana
despite popular votes to legalize the stuff, defendants railroaded by smug
federal politician-judges without even being allowed to read the Bill of
Rights to their juries.

  Still consider it your "patriotic duty" to feed this beast with half of
what you earn? Or did you think your pal the congressman was suddenly,
desperately searching for "an alternative to the IRS" just out of the
goodness of his heart?)

   And what happens now to the carefully-drawn charts that show Social
Security is "sound until the year 2012"?


    #   #   #

  Irresponsible speculation?

  If so, I'm not alone. Appearing in Las Vegas on Tuesday, Nov. 17, U.S.
Sen. Bob Bennett, R-Utah, chairman of a Senate Special Committee on the
Year 2000 Technology Problem, said turn-of-the-century computer glitches
could cause "an economic downturn" in the United States and abroad.

  "Potentially, this could tie up huge parts of the economy," Sen. Bennett
told John G. Edwards of the Las Vegas Review-Journal, after a private
meeting with executives at the Comdex computer trade show. "There will be a
problem. There is no question that we can't fix everything that needs to be
fixed (over the next 14 months)."

  Sen. Bennett told the newspaper he believes less developed countries in
Asia, Africa and South America will be most affected by Y2K problems,
though they're reportedly "working hard" to resolve the computer glitches.
"My current assumption is that the United States will overcome this without
overwhelming, crippling problems," the senator proclaimed.

  Then he said he is also concerned about how the millennium bug will
affect the health care industry.

  "I wouldn't want to get sick in some rural hospital," the senator said,
cheerily.

  Meantime, the Sacramento Bee reported (also on Nov. 17) results of an
August poll that shows most California cities and counties have a plan to
eradicate the year 2000 bug ... "but less than half have set aside the
money to pay for it."

  Feeling reassured?

  Into this potential maelstrom, toss three wild cards:

  1) If Americans, hypothetically told at some future date that stocks and
bonds have fallen to one-third of their previous nominal values, could be
counted on to behave like sophisticated, diversified investors, saying "Oh
well, you win some, you lose some," then the market could indeed fall by
two thirds without causing a meltdown.

  But the behavior of large groups of people, once they start moving, is
rarely so rational. Would you want to be the last one on your block to cry
"Sell"?

  When a market crashes, folks lose their jobs. What happens then to folks
who have no hard savings or supplies but plenty of debt ... who have barely
been keeping their heads above water? What liberties -- yours as well as
theirs -- would they then gladly trade for a steady supply of hot porridge?

  2) The kind of people who gravitate to government "service" never
voluntarily accept blame, but they (start ital)are(end ital) always looking
for ways to expand their power. Can you spot any aspects of these "Y2K"
scenarios that might give government agencies an excuse to seize more
power; to further restrict our freedoms under the guise of "offering relief
and restoring order"; and then to blame the whole situation on someone
else. "Greedy capitalists," perhaps, who have been operating with "too
little regulation"?

  3) We will be increasingly reassured that "the best minds" are hard at
work re-writing computer code to prevent any of this from happening. But
computer nerds and denizens of the Internet are, in my experience, the most
free-thinking, libertarian ... even anarchist residents of our little
global village. They are immensely confident in their self-sufficiency. And
they do not like Big Brother -- especially when he threatens to mess with
their privacy and freedom.

  So ... what if a few of them are only (start ital)pretending(end ital) to
fix the problem? It may take a village to raise a socialist, but it
wouldn't take many Y2K saboteurs to seize this opportunity to "topple the
state."


    #   #   #

  A long way around to a relatively short answer: No, I'm not a
professional financial advisor. But yes, I know exactly what is going to
happen. Everything listed above is going to happen. I just don't know
(start ital)when(end ital) each thing is going to happen, or in what
particular order -- which is what you really need to know, if you think
about it.

  But since there's no real penalty for being "too prepared" -- other than
perhaps looking a bit foolish -- I will fearlessly give a little
(absolutely amateur) advice, which should apply in the face of almost
(start ital)any(end ital) unforeseen emergency. (And if you start preparing
yourself for the smaller emergencies now, at least you'll be part-way
home.)

  Pay down your debts. Turn a hobby into a second, part-time business ... a
small but separate income stream. Diversify. Owning a bunch of "funds" with
different names, which are in fact all dollar-denominated electronic blips
at some government-regulated bank or brokerage house, is not sufficient. Do
you own any bullion-value gold coins (not coins with grossly-inflated
"collector value," but coins priced at no more than twice their meltdown
worth)? Have you hidden away any bags of "junk silver" (pre-1965 real
silver dimes and quarters, now selling at about four times face value)? Do
you have a supply of greenbacks somewhere other than "in the ATM?" Enough
to live on for a week? A month?

  Rich folks can look into Swiss annuities. But even those of moderate
means can think about a beat-up looking American pickup truck ... with
enough dough left over to stockpile an extra water pump, an extra fuel
pump, extra tires and wheels, an extra battery ... and some wrenches, you
yo-yo.

  Don't panic. Don't sell everything and move somewhere to become an
unemployed stranger ... unless you really have the assets, the manpower,
and the handyman skills to set yourself up right. Do consider whether you
could dig a well (or drink out of the creek) and plant a vegetable garden
where you live, should things get tough for a time. If not, do you have
friends or relatives within driving distance, where such things are
possible? Would they take you in if you arrived as an unwashed beggar? For
how long?

  But what if you were to contact them now, asking permission to store some
supplies there, and even to help finance their plans to fix up a room in
the loft, to till and fence a bigger garden, or to share the costs and
ownership of a four-wheel-drive vehicle? What then?

  Do you have water and non-perishable food stored to get you through a
week? A month? (Freeze-dried gourmet camper's fare is fine for the
well-heeled, as are surplus Army MREs. But bulk rice, oats, and dried peas
in plastic tubs are surprisingly cheap, if you shop around.) More than a
week's supply of toilet paper, soap, and other hygiene products? Pet food?

  The doctors and insurance companies don't want you to stockpile the
prescription medicines you legitimately need, do they? How hard have you
worked at outsmarting them? As a last resort, think "veterinarian."

  Do you have alternative ways to heat and light your home, if the power
were to go down? (Residents of blizzard country will actually have a head
start, here.) If not, is that because you look forward to someday living in
a "government resettlement camp"?

  Could you protect your family and belongings from home invaders, if the
police could not be reached? Would your neighbors help? Would you help
(start ital)them(end ital)? Do you even know their names?

  Do you own any firearms? Are they listed on government pre-confiscation
lists? Why? Do you know why shotguns and handguns are generally better
home-defense weapons than rifles? Do you know with what types of bullets or
shells it's best to load such weapons for home defense? Got any? Why not?
Afraid that once you start to learn new stuff it might become a habit?

  Dying during a crisis is not the worst thing that can happen to you. I
imagine that watching the suffering of those who counted on you to protect
them can be much worse.


Vin Suprynowicz is the assistant editorial page editor of the Las Vegas
Review-Journal. Readers may contact him via e-mail at vin@lvrj.com. The web
sites for the Suprynowicz column are at
http://www.infomagic.com/liberty/vinyard.htm, and
http://www.nguworld.com/vindex. The column is syndicated in the United
States and Canada via Mountain Media Syndications, P.O. Box 4422, Las Vegas
Nev. 89127.

***



Vin Suprynowicz,   vin@lvrj.com

The evils of tyranny are rarely seen but by him who resists it. -- John
Hay, 1872

The most difficult struggle of all is the one within ourselves. Let us not
get accustomed and adjusted to these conditions. The one who adjusts ceases
to discriminate between good and evil.  He becomes a slave in body and
soul. Whatever may happen to you, remember always: Don't adjust! Revolt
against the reality! -- Mordechai Anielewicz, Warsaw, 1943

* * *

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 22:14:41 +0800
To: "William H. Geiger III" 
Subject: Re: FC: More on Network Associates and its crypto-politics
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199811181350.FAA27641@smtp.well.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



William -- your speculation may be true, but for now we can settle for
fact: they do support export controls. It makes sense, too: export ctrls
create an artificial market for key recovery crypto, which TIS will be
happy to sell to you.

-Declan


At 04:26 AM 11-18-98 -0500, William H. Geiger III wrote:
>In , on 11/17/98 
>   at 07:35 PM, Robert Hettinga  said:
>
>>TIS supports export controls on encryption products. My article:
>> http://www.well.com/user/declan/pubs/cwd.shadow.cryptocrats.0298.txt
>
>I doubt that TIS really cares one way or the other so long as they keep
their fat government contracts. Of course those same contracts require
keeping the government happy (ie: supporting GAK), TIS and others (being
the corporate whores that they are) will sell out their own mothers (and
the rest of us along with them) if it looked good on the bottom line.
>
>A real shame that PGP had to get mixed up with these vipers.
>
>-- 
>---------------------------------------------------------------
>William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
>Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0
>
>Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
>PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
>OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
>---------------------------------------------------------------
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 915604@candseek.com
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 02:51:17 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: JOBOP Systems Engineer
Message-ID: <199811181800.KAA07960@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Since your email address was listed on a related web site page 
or database, I thought you might help. I am seeking an individual 
within the following conditions:

I am working for one of the leading technology software companies 
in the Business software industry. We are seeking people experienced 
in Unix system and/or Windows NT administration. This person 
will work in any of three areas (New Jersey, Pennsylvania and Ohio) 
They will join either of two groups; Systems Engineering or Post 
Sales Implementation. This position requires; 3-5 years experience 
with Unix and/or Windows NT administration, prior experience in 
project management or pre-sales support of software product, 
excellent communication skills, a solid understanding of network 
management, GREEN CARD (minimum) and ability to travel within 
a well-defined territory(and occasionally, outside the territory). 

We offer an opportunity to become involved with leading edge 
technology, and excellent compensation package (to $80,000 plus bonus), 
outstanding benefits (including company paid medical and dental, 401K, 
tuition reimbursement etc.), outstanding working environment and 
an opportunity to work for one of the largest, most recognizable companies in the software 
industry .

Geographic Location of Position: New Jersey, Pennsylvania or Ohio

If you know anyone that might be interested, please forward this 
to them or contact:

Dave Eide
Quest_IT
Voice: 609-584-9000 ext. 273
Fax: 609-584-9575
Email: 915604@candseek.com







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 00:34:19 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: CJ Update
Message-ID: <199811181521.KAA16375@smtp2.atl.mindspring.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Received today by e-mail:

November 16, 1998
Springfield, Missouri

To:  friends of Carl Johnson, The Last Canadian
Outlaw (name of his last album)

From:   Alia Johnson

I saw CJ today at the Springfield facility for the
criminally disturbing. We spent five hours, a lot of
laughing, a little crying, and talking, with lots of
cameras and mikes on us. The controllers would not
let me take notes!

First, CJ's great hope and request to his friends is
to hang in there with him. He intends to go all the
way with this to trial, being his own defense lawyer,
even though he believes that since the Feds know they
will lose, they will try to get him to plea bargain
down to "walking his dog without a leash" as he puts
it. He is definitely on a mission.  He received
John's package, nothing from Declan. He has received
about half the mail I sent him. They are reading his
mail to his lawyers, supposedly forbidden.

CJ has been without glasses and without his teeth for
the whole time since he was arrested. JEFF GORDON
STILL HAS CJ'S TEETH. However, his vision has
improved! He is also without proper medication for
his Tourette's. The shrink told him that the
amphetamines he had been prescribed and which were
working well would probably be stolen by the staff
anyway. CJ is very conscious of managing his
neurological condition, with coffee, sugar, fasting,
and self-control. He does complain that he was so
pleased with himself that he got through his last
rage attack without hurting himself or acting it out
that he punched a wall in celebration and hurt his
hand! 

Even though he is supposed to be his own lawyer, he
has not even been informed about his indictment nor
has he been informed about anything else about his
case.

At Springfield he has been in lockup for things that
he purportedly did at the Florence, Arizona prison.
The shrink gets a message this past weekend that
suddenly I am coming down, and this morning before I
get there he rushes in to tell CJ he's finally moving
him out of lockup into the open ward! Wolfson later
tells me that over two weeks ago he notified the
federal marshalls that CJ can be moved back to
Arizona, but he had not told CJ that.  I don't know
whether it's true.  He actually took me to task for
coming on such short notice.

CJ was very happy that the things he has sent out
have been posted, and it is clear that the support of
the cypherpunks community is important to him.

He did not talk to me about particular defense
strategies for obvious reasons.

He did indicate that the story that I relayed to John
about the incident in the federal courthouse in
Estevan involving a supposed gasoline "bomb"  (a
version of which incident was part of a story by
Declan) was a surprise to him;  he seemed both 
surprised and amused about what actions had been
attributed to him. To say I know and understand
nothing about this incident is an understatement. I
mention  it only because it is part of Jeff Gordon's
original complaint, a significant part I assume since
CJ has never been known to do physical injury to a
human being.

CJ has not seen the stories by Declan nor what has
been posted; I sent a hundred pages of stuff to Larry
Dowling his Austin lawyer, including copies of
Declan's articles. I had not sent these things to CJ
on the assumption that they would be censored. CJ
suggested that I ask Dowling to sent them with the
instruction on the envelope "open in the presence of
the inmate only". Again, he wants to see these things
because  his spirit is hanging on the support from
John and the rest of the community, although he said
very clearly that he is doing this on his own and
would do it alone if he had to.

Just before I left to come here, having finally been
cleared as a visitor, I got a call from Linda Lou
Reed, saying that she had not done a couple of things
needed to get his music CD together, since she has

been out of town. CJ and I talked about how to get
this together and I will work on it with other Tucson
friends. Someone had the idea of selling the CD's to
support a legal defense fund. I will report progress
as it occurs. 

And speaking of legal defense support, thanks to John
and others who made suggestions about legal support.
After many hours of discussion the family decided
that it was not the most intelligent thing to put up
the meagre family fortunes against the federal
government, and therefore we intend at this point to
trust CJ's defense to his stated (and historically
effective) plan to be his own defense, or to public
defenders. With some trepidation I brought this up to
CJ, and he was relieved; he said that he had been
worried that we would try to pay for a defense in
this case, which again he intends to push all the way
through no matter what compromises are offered to
him, and that our paying for his defense was not what
he wanted. 

Therefore I would like to put out to those who know
the situation to help CJ to obtain relevant legal
information and consultation as he goes into this, in
whatever form it is available.  If there are costs
that I personally can afford to support, I am happy
to. CJ has made repeated requests for access to legal
books at Springfield, and they disappear into
nowhere, no yes, no no. 

An interesting point:  CJ related that Dr. Wolfson
had asked him about his filing of IRS tax forms!  As
if they were on a fishing expedition looking for
other things to get CJ on, as they did with Jim Bell.
I confronted Wolfson about this, asking how it was
relevant to the issue Wolfson was supposed to be
investigating, which is CJ's competence to understand
the charges against him and to stand trial.  At that
exact moment he jumped up and said that he urgently
needed to answer a page which he had received five
minutes before. I overheard the conversation which he
had suddenly urgently to engage in, and it was a
trivial conversation about returning a copy of a
document to someone. But when he returned to me he
said "Well I have three reasons for having asked
that." Already suspicious, to have three reasons. The
main reason Wolfson said was that CJ says he has
attention deficient disorder (ADD) associated with
the Tourette's, and that asking if someone filed
taxes was a good indicator of their attention span!
(Could I be making this up?) I said, why not pick
something like, can you make it through the college
registration process? He replied, "I'm not used to
working with educated people."  Other "reasons" he
gave:  1) I want to give a thorough medical,
psychological, social and legal picture as part of my
judgment whether someone is capable of understanding
the charges against him, because if I leave
significant things out of my report I am more likely
to be receiving a subpoena to wherever CJ is being
tried, and that's inconvenient for me; and 2) there
are all these wacko people who question the authority
of government to levy taxes, put people to trial,
etc., and I need to determine whether he's one of
those and therefore suffering as part of a mass
delusion (his words)... he lost me there a little
bit. I didn't know whether that would be evidence of
sanity or insanity.

Anyway he seems to be sending off CJ into the next
stage with a report that CJ might have Tourette's, is
not schizophrenic, and in his experience is not
dangerous.

CJ does have some mighty interesting observations
about how things are done in this federal nuthouse
situation, which god willing we will all get to hear
someday. Meanwhile he has sent out certain
information to Declan on specific incidents in the
facility which he observed,  but is concerned that it
was not received.

Our expectation is that CJ will be returned to Tucson
and then extradited to Washington, but clearly as a
form of harrassment the marshalls are taking their
own sweet time about everything.

CJ's "case manager" at Springfeld is Bob Harris. The
phone number there is 417 862 7041, and CJ's prisoner
number is 05987-196. Any correspondence to anywhere
in the prison system needs to have that number on it.
John Bogart in Tucson  (520 624 8196) is the public
defender in CJ's local case, pending his extradition
to Washington state.  The family retained Larry
Dowling in Austin, a very old friend of CJ's and his
lawyer for a long time, for a small amount to look
after CJ's rights during incarceration; we have not
retained him to go the full way in this defense, for
the reasons stated above.  Supposedly John Bogart
will be informed when the marshalls actually choose
to move CJ (after the fact).  Therefore I suggest
that those who want to write to CJ write him soon and
by fast mail at U.S. Medical Center, POB Box 4000, 
Springfield, Missouri 65801.   Larry Dowling's
address is 606 West 11th, Austin, 78701. I assume he
might be willing  to forward it to CJ on the
assumption that CJ will in fact be moved. Larry has
been a true friend throughout this and past
tribulations.

CJ has said that since he has been incarcerated for
three months now with no indication to him as to
formal charges, it is time to act to get him out of
Springfield. I concur, and unless I hear within a
week that he is being moved, I will take some of the
cypherpunk friends up on their offer to begin to
address this case through the local ACLU.  CJ's
greatest fear is that he will do something that will
justify involuntary drug administration, and he will
be defeated in that way. He is also afraid that he
will simply be killed in prison.

However, all in all I found CJ in pretty good
spirits, and clearly feeling "on purpose" vis a vis
his goals with his cypherpunk activities. I related
to him during our talk that one of my sons just took
some time off from university so that he would have
time to actually read, and that he had accurately
predicted to his friends exactly how I would respond
to the news: "Honey, I'm so proud!" CJ said that's
how I seemed to feel now about his arrest.  It is,
finally. I trust that CJ, in spite of a pattern of
sometimes shooting himself in the foot, is
brilliantly inspired by important libertarian values
and goals. I appreciate the education and inspiration
I have gained from getting to know this side of his
life and some of the people, technologies, issues and
ideas of which previously I had only vague notions.


Alia Johnson (lodi@well.com) my phone 510 548 2008;
my fax 510 848 7842.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 00:53:48 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: CJ Update Corrected (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811181618.KAA19330@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 10:30:56 -0500
> From: John Young 
> Subject: CJ Update Corrected

> This is attorney protected information.

Not now.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 00:43:12 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: CJ Update Corrected
Message-ID: <199811181540.KAA25521@smtp2.atl.mindspring.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



This is attorney protected information.

Received today by e-mail:

November 16, 1998
Springfield, Missouri

To:  friends of Carl Johnson, The Last Canadian
Outlaw (name of his last album)

From:   Alia Johnson

I saw CJ today at the Springfield facility for the
criminally disturbing. We spent five hours, a lot of
laughing, a little crying, and talking, with lots of
cameras and mikes on us. The controllers would not
let me take notes!

First, CJ's great hope and request to his friends is
to hang in there with him. He intends to go all the
way with this to trial, being his own defense lawyer,
even though he believes that since the Feds know they
will lose, they will try to get him to plea bargain
down to "walking his dog without a leash" as he puts
it. He is definitely on a mission.  He received
John's package, nothing from Declan. He has received
about half the mail I sent him. They are reading his
mail to his lawyers, supposedly forbidden.

CJ has been without glasses and without his teeth for
the whole time since he was arrested. JEFF GORDON
STILL HAS CJ'S TEETH. However, his vision has
improved! He is also without proper medication for
his Tourette's. The shrink told him that the
amphetamines he had been prescribed and which were
working well would probably be stolen by the staff
anyway. CJ is very conscious of managing his
neurological condition, with coffee, sugar, fasting,
and self-control. He does complain that he was so
pleased with himself that he got through his last
rage attack without hurting himself or acting it out
that he punched a wall in celebration and hurt his
hand! 

Even though he is supposed to be his own lawyer, he
has not even been informed about his indictment nor
has he been informed about anything else about his
case.

At Springfield he has been in lockup for things that
he purportedly did at the Florence, Arizona prison.
The shrink gets a message this past weekend that
suddenly I am coming down, and this morning before I
get there he rushes in to tell CJ he's finally moving
him out of lockup into the open ward! Wolfson later
tells me that over two weeks ago he notified the
federal marshalls that CJ can be moved back to
Arizona, but he had not told CJ that.  I don't know
whether it's true.  He actually took me to task for
coming on such short notice.

CJ was very happy that the things he has sent out
have been posted, and it is clear that the support of
the cypherpunks community is important to him.

He did not talk to me about particular defense
strategies for obvious reasons.

He did indicate that the story that I relayed to John
about the incident in the federal courthouse in
Estevan involving a supposed gasoline "bomb"  (a
version of which incident was part of a story by
Declan) was a surprise to him;  he seemed both 
surprised and amused about what actions had been
attributed to him. To say I know and understand
nothing about this incident is an understatement. I
mention  it only because it is part of Jeff Gordon's
original complaint, a significant part I assume since
CJ has never been known to do physical injury to a
human being.

CJ has not seen the stories by Declan nor what has
been posted; I sent a hundred pages of stuff to Larry
Dowling his Austin lawyer, including copies of
Declan's articles. I had not sent these things to CJ
on the assumption that they would be censored. CJ
suggested that I ask Dowling to sent them with the
instruction on the envelope "open in the presence of
the inmate only". Again, he wants to see these things
because  his spirit is hanging on the support from
John and the rest of the community, although he said
very clearly that he is doing this on his own and
would do it alone if he had to.

Just before I left to come here, having finally been
cleared as a visitor, I got a call from Linda Lou
Reed, saying that she had not done a couple of things
needed to get his music CD together, since she has

been out of town. CJ and I talked about how to get
this together and I will work on it with other Tucson
friends. Someone had the idea of selling the CD's to
support a legal defense fund. I will report progress
as it occurs. 

And speaking of legal defense support, thanks to John
and others who made suggestions about legal support.
After many hours of discussion the family decided
that it was not the most intelligent thing to put up
the meagre family fortunes against the federal
government, and therefore we intend at this point to
trust CJ's defense to his stated (and historically
effective) plan to be his own defense, or to public
defenders. With some trepidation I brought this up to
CJ, and he was relieved; he said that he had been
worried that we would try to pay for a defense in
this case, which again he intends to push all the way
through no matter what compromises are offered to
him, and that our paying for his defense was not what
he wanted. 

Therefore I would like to put out to those who know
the situation to help CJ to obtain relevant legal
information and consultation as he goes into this, in
whatever form it is available.  If there are costs
that I personally can afford to support, I am happy
to. CJ has made repeated requests for access to legal
books at Springfield, and they disappear into
nowhere, no yes, no no. 

An interesting point:  CJ related that Dr. Wolfson
had asked him about his filing of IRS tax forms!  As
if they were on a fishing expedition looking for
other things to get CJ on, as they did with Jim Bell.
I confronted Wolfson about this, asking how it was
relevant to the issue Wolfson was supposed to be
investigating, which is CJ's competence to understand
the charges against him and to stand trial.  At that
exact moment he jumped up and said that he urgently
needed to answer a page which he had received five
minutes before. I overheard the conversation which he
had suddenly urgently to engage in, and it was a
trivial conversation about returning a copy of a
document to someone. But when he returned to me he
said "Well I have three reasons for having asked
that." Already suspicious, to have three reasons. The
main reason Wolfson said was that CJ says he has
attention deficient disorder (ADD) associated with
the Tourette's, and that asking if someone filed
taxes was a good indicator of their attention span!
(Could I be making this up?) I said, why not pick
something like, can you make it through the college
registration process? He replied, "I'm not used to
working with educated people."  Other "reasons" he
gave:  1) I want to give a thorough medical,
psychological, social and legal picture as part of my
judgment whether someone is capable of understanding
the charges against him, because if I leave
significant things out of my report I am more likely
to be receiving a subpoena to wherever CJ is being
tried, and that's inconvenient for me; and 2) there
are all these wacko people who question the authority
of government to levy taxes, put people to trial,
etc., and I need to determine whether he's one of
those and therefore suffering as part of a mass
delusion (his words)... he lost me there a little
bit. I didn't know whether that would be evidence of
sanity or insanity.

Anyway he seems to be sending off CJ into the next
stage with a report that CJ might have Tourette's, is
not schizophrenic, and in his experience is not
dangerous.

CJ does have some mighty interesting observations
about how things are done in this federal nuthouse
situation, which god willing we will all get to hear
someday. Meanwhile he has sent out certain
information to Declan on specific incidents in the
facility which he observed,  but is concerned that it
was not received.

Our expectation is that CJ will be returned to Tucson
and then extradited to Washington, but clearly as a
form of harrassment the marshalls are taking their
own sweet time about everything.

CJ's "case manager" at Springfeld is Bob Harris. The
phone number there is 417 862 7041, and CJ's prisoner
number is 05987-196. Any correspondence to anywhere
in the prison system needs to have that number on it.
John Bogart in Tucson  (520 624 8196) is the public
defender in CJ's local case, pending his extradition
to Washington state.  The family retained Larry
Dowling in Austin, a very old friend of CJ's and his
lawyer for a long time, for a small amount to look
after CJ's rights during incarceration; we have not
retained him to go the full way in this defense, for
the reasons stated above.  Supposedly John Bogart
will be informed when the marshalls actually choose
to move CJ (after the fact).  Therefore I suggest
that those who want to write to CJ write him soon and
by fast mail at U.S. Medical Center, POB Box 4000, 
Springfield, Missouri 65801.   Larry Dowling's
address is 606 West 11th, Austin, 78701. I assume he
might be willing  to forward it to CJ on the
assumption that CJ will in fact be moved. Larry has
been a true friend throughout this and past
tribulations.

CJ has said that since he has been incarcerated for
three months now with no indication to him as to
formal charges, it is time to act to get him out of
Springfield. I concur, and unless I hear within a
week that he is being moved, I will take some of the
cypherpunk friends up on their offer to begin to
address this case through the local ACLU.  CJ's
greatest fear is that he will do something that will
justify involuntary drug administration, and he will
be defeated in that way. He is also afraid that he
will simply be killed in prison.

However, all in all I found CJ in pretty good
spirits, and clearly feeling "on purpose" vis a vis
his goals with his cypherpunk activities. I related
to him during our talk that one of my sons just took
some time off from university so that he would have
time to actually read, and that he had accurately
predicted to his friends exactly how I would respond
to the news: "Honey, I'm so proud!" CJ said that's
how I seemed to feel now about his arrest.  It is,
finally. I trust that CJ, in spite of a pattern of
sometimes shooting himself in the foot, is
brilliantly inspired by important libertarian values
and goals. I appreciate the education and inspiration
I have gained from getting to know this side of his
life and some of the people, technologies, issues and
ideas of which previously I had only vague notions.


Alia Johnson (lodi@well.com) my phone 510 548 2008;
my fax 510 848 7842.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Brown, R Ken" 
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 01:43:32 +0800
To: vin@shore.net>
Subject: RE: Rivest Patent
Message-ID: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F859D@MSX11002>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Vin McLellan (or someone using his name), in an otherwise closely argued
posting,  subtly missed the point with:

[...snip...]

> I was never impressed by the absolutist argument against
> patents on math-based processes. Mr. Cordian summarized
> this POV: "The fact that the [RSA] patent couldn't be 
> successfully challenged even though its mathematical
> underpinnings were well known years prior reflects badly only
> upon the notion of mathematical patents, and hardly refutes the 
> facts in evidence." By that logic, it seems to me, a basic
> knowledge of physics could invalidate almost all patents
> for mechanical inventions.)

> [...snip...]
> 
The real point is surely  that a patent for a device invented by someone
with  a basic knowledge of physics is used to protect the *invention*
not the *knowledge*. They are not used to prevent anyone else inventing
another device using the same basic knowledge of physics. 

Even if it is perfectly just for the RSA (or any other) patent "taken as
a whole" to be used to protect  "not merely a disembodied mathematical
concept but rather a specific machine";  that *doesn''t* mean it is
neccessarily just to use the patent to protect that "disembodied
mathematical concept" when it is used in some other "specific machine".
But software patents *are* used to try to stop people employing the same
algorithms in other inventions. So, despite  the ingenuous  ruling of
the court they *are* being used to try to control "disembodied
mathematical concepts" - in other words ideas.

I have no idea if Watt had a patent on the steam governor. But I bet he
didn't try to take one out on Boyle's Law.


Ken Brown




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Vin McLellan 
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 01:48:05 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Rivest Patent
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



	Vin McLellan  wrote:

>> Now, it seems to me reasonable, albiet academic, to argue whether or not
>>software
>> should be patentable.  It is also certainly reasonable to argue whether
>>or not
>> cryptographic algorithms should be patentable.
>>
>> On the other hand, it seems to me unreasonable, willfully ill-informed,
>> and/or  malovelent to declare -- in the face of several judicial rulings
>> which have firmly ratified the RSA PKC patent -- that  "prior art" exists
>> which should have invalidated that patent.

	Eric Michael Cordian  -- the "Nym" or
pseudonym for someone who says he is a group of people, and who has been
collecting  $500 donations from folks willing to help the Cordian Group
sponsor an algebraic attack on the DES (See the "DES Analytic Crack
Project" at http://www.cyberspace.org/~enoch/crakfaq.html) -- spun off an
individual voice to respond:

>Judicial rulings notwithstanding, a description of that which is now known
>as RSA Public Key Cryptography was published in a book of algorithms which
>pre-dated by quite a few years its patenting and commercial promotion by
>the current patent holders.

	When I read Cordian's claim, I asked Ron Rivest if he had ever
heard of such a thing.  Prof. Rivest was curious, but said was all news to
him. To the best of his knowledge, he said, there had never been anything
like a description of the RSA public key cryptosystem published prior to
the paper he, Adi Shamir and Len Adelman, published in April, 1977: "On
Digital Signatures and Public Key Cryptosystems."

	Last year, former Cylink attorney Pat Flinn suggested that one
possible  challenge to the RSA patent might be to highlight the similarity
between the RSA PKC and the Pohlig-Hellman crypto system, invented at
Stanford University in 1975. For an invention to be patentable, of course,
it must be useful, novel, and non-obvious. Flinn argued that the
reformulation of the Pohlig-Hellman algorithm with a modulus that was the
product of two prime numbers was a potentially "obvious" enhancement.

	But not even Pat Flinn claimed to know anything about a
"description of that which is now known as RSA Public Key Cryptography"
being published somewhere -- anywhere -- years before the RSA cryptosystem
was invented and named at MIT.

	As Matt Blaze pointed out, there have also been recent reports
about secret research into public-key cryptosystems by cryptographers
within the British cryptographic service, GCHQ, in the early 1970s.
According to former NSA Director Bobby Ray Inman, the NSA was working on
PKC even earlier. Until last December, when the Brits released a GCHQ
historical paper written by John Ellis in 1987, there had been little or no
unclassified information available about this pioneering research. See:
http://www.nytimes.com/library/cyber/week/122497encrypt.html   We still
don't know what was done at the NSA, by whom, and when. Secret government
R&D, however, is not really relevant to intellectual property claims on
public key crypto. Full publication of the details of an invention -- in
exchange for a limited-duration property right -- is really at the heart of
the patent process.  Except in extraordinary circumstances, the NSA doesn't
play in this league.

	In the commecial world, on the other hand, it's hard to think of
priceless information being kept secret (particularly when it is only worth
something if it is on a bargaining table.) In the lawsuits between
Stanford/Cylink and RSA Data Security over the scope and validity of the
Stanford and RSA patents, "obvious prior art" -- certainly evidence that
the RSA cryptosystem had been published by someone other than the MIT
inventors before 1977 -- would have been worth tens of millions of dollars.
It might have been potentially worth that much to Pat Flinn himself.

	Since I knew that no mention of such a document or book had ever
emerged in Cylink's multi-year campaign to invalidate the RSA patent, it
seemed a safe bet to challenge Mr. Cordian directly.

	"There was no such book. Cordian's statement is just not true," I
declared.

	Mr. Cordian replied with dry scorn:

>>> Only a complete moron would place himself in the position of trying to
>>> prove such an all-encompassing negative.

	(Not light of hand, our Mr. Cordian.  Yet not all negative
propositions are impossible to prove.  For the rest, I'll leave it to the
List and other readers to decide which of us deserves a Dunce Cap for
placing himself in an untenable position.)

	Mr. Cordian didn't press his initial argument that a cryptographic
algorithm, even if embodied in a pseudo-mechanical device or process,
doesn't deserve patent protection. Since 1981, the US Courts have allowed a
process which includes a mathematical algorithm to be patented  -- if the
algorithm is merely part of an otherwise patentable process. For the RSA
cryptosystem, this seems reasonably straightforward to those without a
religious bias.

	To quote the Federal Court in the Schlafly Case, affirmed by the
Circuit Court:

"Taken as a whole, the RSA patent is entitled to patent protection. The
claims of the patent make use of known structures, a communications
channel, an encoding device and a decoding device, to produce a practical
invention, i.e. a means for securely transmitting messages across an
insecure line. The messages are comprised of word signals that are
transformed from one state, plaintext, to another state, ciphertext, by the
patented invention. The word signals are then transmitted across an
insecure line and transformed by the decoding device from ciphertext into
plaintext. As such, the claimed invention is not merely a disembodied
mathematical concept but rather a specific machine designed to transform
and transmit word signals."

	(I was never impressed by the absolutist argument against patents
on math-based processes. Mr. Cordian summarized this POV: "The fact that
the [RSA] patent couldn't be successfully challenged even though its
mathematical underpinnings were well known years prior reflects badly only
upon the notion of mathematical patents, and hardly refutes the facts in
evidence." By that logic, it seems to me, a basic knowledge of physics
could invalidate almost all patents for mechanical inventions.)

	The second traditional attack upon the RSA public key cryptosystem,
noted above, is the charge that it was "obvious" or insufficiently novel.
Section 103 of the US Patent Act provides that a patent is invalid "if the
differences between the subject matter sought to be patented and the prior
art are such that the subject matter as a whole would have been obvious at
the time the invention was made to a person having ordinary skill in the
art...."

	If, as Mr. Cordian claimed, there was "a description of that which
is now known as RSA Public Key Cryptography" published in some book years
before the 1976 (re)discovery of the RSA cryptosystem by Rivest, Shamir,
and Adleman, it would have -- and clearly should have -- invalidated the
RSA patent under that rule.

	So what do we get when Mr. Cordian finally chooses to reveal to a
curious List the source of his amazing report that the RSA public key
cryptosystem was actually published in the _19th_ Century?

	Patrick J. Flinn!  Hey, what a surprise!

	As his hallowed source, Mr. Cordian cites a footnote from Flinn's
impassioned 1997 denunciation of the RSA patent in the Cyberlaw journal.

	Read one-time Cylink attorney Flinn at
http://www.cyberlaw.com/rsa.html (and a brisk bare-knuckle retort from Bob
Haslam, RSADSI's attorney, at http://www.cyberlaw.com/rthrsa.html.)

	Flinn led the team of patent and litigation lawyers that
represented Cylink Corporation in its suit against RSA Data Security Inc.
to determine the validity and scope of the RSA PKC patent after the breakup
of an early RSA/Cylink licensing partnership. In a separate case, Flinn's
team also represented Cylink and Stanford University against RSADSI in a
suit which sought to define the validity and scope of the so-called
Stanford patents: the Hellman-Merkle Patent and the Diffie-Hellman Patent.

	Critics of Flinn's Cyberlaw article characterized him as a one-time
Cylink gunslinger who had already failed in several attempts to invalidate
the RSA patent -- and who was finally bounced from the case in 1996 when
Cylink decided that further litigation was futile and potentially
disasterous. Cylink subsequently negotiated the purchase of a license for
the RSA public key cryptosystem from RSADSI.

	RSA's attorneys, as you might expect, rudely dismissed Flinn's
list of potential vulnerabilities in the RSA patent in Cyberlaw. They
pointed out that Flinn's arguments were being published, rather than heard
in a courtroom, because those same arguments had failed to impress several
judges and hearing officers.  "As a matter of fact," declared RSA attorney
Bob Haslam, "none of Mr. Flinn's three arguments about the supposed
invalidity of the RSA Patent have ever been remotely successful in actual
litigation."

	To its credit, Flinn's Cyberlaw article doesn't really try to be
anything but a determined advocate's last-ditch list of legal attacks that
might -- with a good tailwind behind them -- potentially chip, limit, or
even invalidate RSA's teflon-coated PKC patent.  Flinn's Cyberlaw
presentation drew notably unsympathetic responses from the law profs and IP
experts on the Cyberia mailing list -- although they seemed to admire his
style and gall in publishing a case he wasn't going to be allowed try
before a judge or jury.

	For all that, the pretentions of Flinn's Cyberlaw footnote on 19th
Century Mathematics turned out to be _far, far_ less than what Mr. Cordian
had claimed.

	Mr. Cordian must have discovered this when he went back and pulled
up his source data. Then -- to put it diplomatically -- Mr. Cordian seems
to have decided to flim-flam the List a little. Rather than admit an error,
a little over-enthusiasm in his recollection of the facts, Cordian decided
bluff it out.

	He quoted for us only the beginning of Flinn's footnote, and he
ignored the rest of the footnoted text -- which, quite inconveniently for
him, seemed to directly refute his initial claim.

	(A nymed net-gent like Mr. Cordian -- who hides his real identity
behind the Cordian pseudonym -- can perhaps risk his reputation a little
more carelessly than the rest of us. If he soils this one, after all, he
can just pony up for a new identity.)

	Wrote Mr. Cordian:

>Quoting "Cyberlaw":
>
>    "There are a number of references in the prior art, moreover,
>     to using the problem of factoring composite numbers in
>     cryptography, dating back to the 19th century.
>
>    "In 1870, a book by William S. Jevons described the
>     relationship of one-way functions to cryptography and went
>     on to discuss specifically the factorization problem used
>     to create the "trap-door" in the RSA system."

	Actually, the first line of Cordian's quote is from the main text
of Flinn's article: http://www.cyberlaw.com/rsa.html. The second line is
from Flinn's Footnote # 64.

	The _full_ text of Footnote # 64 reads as follows:

[64] In 1870, a book by William S. Jevons described the relationship of
one-way functions to cryptography and went on to discuss specifically the
factorization problem used to create the "trap-door" in the RSA system. In
July, 1996, one observer commented on the Jevons book in this way:

In his book The Principles of Science: A Treatise on Logic and Scientific
Method, written and published in the 1890's, William S. Jevons observed
that there are many situations where the 'direct' operation is relatively
easy, but the 'inverse' operation is significantly more difficult, One
example mentioned briefly is that enciphering (encryption) is easy while
deciphering (decryption) is not. In the same section of Chapter 7:
Introduction titled 'Induction an Inverse Operation', much more attention
is devoted to the principle that multiplication of integers is easy, but
finding the (prime) factors of the product is much harder. Thus, Jevons
anticipated a key feature of the RSA Algorithm for public key cryptography,
though he certainly did not invent the concept of public key cryptography.

Solomon W. Golomb, On Factoring Jevons' Number, CRYPTOLOGIA 243 (July 1996)
(emphasis added).

	

	(The conflict between the 1870 and 1890 dates cited in different
paragraphs for the pub date of Jevon's "The Principles of Science" is as
published in the original Cyberlaw article. I have no explanation, but the
1870 date seems most likely.  William Stanley Jevons, an astonishingly
prolific American economist, philosopher, and logician, was born 1835 and
died in 1882. He is probably the W.S. Jevons cited here, but I can't be
sure since I can find this title among the list of Jevon books in the
Library of Congress.)

	The Cryptologia journal, unfortunately, is not yet available
on-line, and the Golomb article doesn't seems available elsewhere.  Might
be worth digging that up. I'd love to read more of what Shannon Award
winner Sol Golomb had to say about the relationship between Jevon's 19th
Century mathematical research and public key cryptography.

	I think it is appropriate to note, however, that Prof. Golomb did
_not_ conclude that the functionality of the RSA public key cryptosystem
was "obvious" to anyone familiar with Jevons' work.

	Suerte,
		_Vin


-----
"Cryptography is like literacy in the Dark Ages. Infinitely potent, for
good and ill... yet basically an intellectual construct, an idea, which by
its nature will resist efforts to restrict it to bureaucrats and others who
deem only themselves worthy of such Privilege."
_ A Thinking Man's Creed for Crypto  _vbm.

 *     Vin McLellan + The Privacy Guild +     *
      53 Nichols St., Chelsea, MA 02150 USA <617> 884-5548





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Douglas L. Peterson" 
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 05:01:57 +0800
To: Declan McCullagh 
Subject: Re: FC: More on Network Associates and its crypto-politics
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <36532901.A0A9255B@chisp.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Declan McCullagh wrote:
> 
> William -- your speculation may be true, but for now we can settle for
> fact: they do support export controls. It makes sense, too: export ctrls
> create an artificial market for key recovery crypto, which TIS will be
> happy to sell to you.

Wouldn't this only work if import controls were put in place?  Right now
there is very little to keep me from buying non-GAK software from
someone
other than TIS.

-Doug
www.TheServerFarm.net




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Douglas L. Peterson" 
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 05:02:40 +0800
To: Declan McCullagh 
Subject: Re: FC: More on Network Associates and its crypto-politics
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <36532C1C.C79813E3@chisp.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Declan McCullagh wrote:
> 
> You're not a US corporation that hopes to use the same software
> domestically and abroad, for instance.

Good point.  I was thinking from the point of view of an individual or
small business.
I'm glad I don't have any government contracts.

> At 01:07 PM 11-18-98 -0700, Douglas L. Peterson wrote:
> >Declan McCullagh wrote:
> >>
> >> William -- your speculation may be true, but for now we can settle for
> >> fact: they do support export controls. It makes sense, too: export ctrls
> >> create an artificial market for key recovery crypto, which TIS will be
> >> happy to sell to you.
> >
> >Wouldn't this only work if import controls were put in place?  Right now
> >there is very little to keep me from buying non-GAK software from
> >someone
> >other than TIS.
> >
> >-Doug
> >www.TheServerFarm.net
> >

-Doug
www.TheServerFarm.net




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 03:19:01 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: National Security KRA Framework
Message-ID: <199811181839.NAA01188@smtp2.atl.mindspring.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



These are excerpts from US Patent 5835596: "International
cryptography framework" issued on November 10, 1998, to
inventors Keith S. Klemba, Santa Clara, CA, and Roger
Merckling, Gieres, France and assigned to Hewlett Packard. 

Source: 

http://www.patents.ibm.com/patlist?icnt=US&patent_number=05835596&x=19&y=4

It's an update of US Patent 5651068 issued for the same
methodology in July, 1997. Summaries of the patents are
also available at < http://www.uspto.gov >.

INTERNATIONAL CRYPTOGRAPHY FRAMEWORK

SUMMARY OF THE INVENTION

The invention provides a four-part technology framework
that supports international cryptography, which includes a
national flag card, a cryptographic unit, a host system, and a
network security server. Three of the four service elements
have a fundamentally hierarchical relationship. The National
Flag Card (NFC) is installed in the Cryptographic Unit (CU)
which, in turn, is installed into a Host System (HS).
Cryptographic instructions on the Host system cannot be
executed without a Cryptographic Unit, which itself requires
the present of a valid National Flag Card before its services
are available. The fourth service element, a Network
Security Server (NSS), can provide a range of different
security services including verification of the other three
service elements.

The framework supports the design, implementation, and
operational elements of any and all national policies, while
unifying the design, development, and operation of
independent national security policies. The invention thus
gives standard form to the service elements of national
security policies, where such service elements include such
things as hardware from factors, communication protocols,
and on-line and off-line data definitions. [Snip drawing and
detailed descriptions.]

APPLICATION OF THE FRAMEWORK

The invention has various applications. In particular, the
framework is ideally suited for various national security
schemes and operates consistently across a variety of local
laws. For example the framework could be used to support a
key escrow policy. Key escrowing is a process where the
keys or family keys used for cryptography are kept by a third
party, in the national context, typically a government agency.
This allows the third party to decrypt information when, for
example, a law enforcement agency is required to see the
contents of an encrypted message.

For example if the policy of nation-X requires key escrow,
then when nation-X NFC's are put into circulation they
contain a key escrowed by nation-X. Law enforcement
would be able to use the electronic stamp on a message to
determine that the message was encrypted under the policy
of nation-X. It would also be able to determine unique
identification information of the specific NFC used to enable
the CU. If nation-X agrees to cooperate, the escrowed key
for the NFC involved may be obtained to decrypt the
suspicious message.

The actual encryption algorithm used in nation-X may be the
same encryption algorithm that is used in nation-Z, such that
when a user from nation-X visits nation-Z it is only
necessary to put a NFC from nation-Z into the CU. The
encryption algorithm in the CU remains the same, but what
is governing the use of cryptography is the policy of nation-
Z. For example, the policy of nation-Z may require a trap
door, such that the government of nation-Z is able to take a
back door into the users system to read the deciphered text.
In this case the nation-Z NFC provides a back door rather
than an escrowed key to law enforcement. Several such
schemes are known in the art and it is a feature of the
invention that the framework is readily adapted to
accommodate such schemes as may be implemented in a
particular national policy without affecting the basic
hardware, or data structures of a user system, with the
exception of the NFC.

Thus, the encryption algorithms in CU may be the same
encryption algorithms used everywhere. The NFCs control
the use of these encryption algorithms in accordance with

the local law. Because the NSS is a trusted third party that
validates proper local use of the framework, it is not
possible to use cryptography unless a locally accepted NFC
is installed in the CU. In the example above, even though the
encryption engine operates properly in nation-X, it would
not operate in nation-Z unless the NFC was replaced with a 
nation-Z's NFC. For international communication of
encrypted information, (e.g. where an encrypted message is
generated in nation-Z and sent to nation-X) the involvement
of cryptography for such messages will be independently
controlled by two NFCs -- the X flag card in nation-X and
the Z-flag card in nation-Z. The invention therefore offers
the ability to support government policy, whatever that
policy may be, and still provide uniform cryptographic
services.

In addition to the nationalization issues that are illustrated
above, within a certain nation there may be multiple
encryption policies (e.g. nation-X might have a policy for
banking that is more liberal than its policy for
manufacturing). Accordingly, the framework is adapted to
operate within each country under several different national
policies, or with several different levels of encryption. For
example, just as there are different stamps for first class and
priority mail, the framework may allow for different levels
of encryption based on the type of NFC installed.

It is a feature of the framework that CUs may have the major
standard encryption algorithms built-in (e.g. DES, RSA,
DSS, MD5). However, it is also possible to install custom
algorithms into the CU providing that the policy in the
governing NFC permits this type of activity. Software
algorithms can be transferred completely or partially into the
CU from either the NFC or the NSS. Hardware algorithms
can be added to the CU via the NFC. The actual encryption
of a message may involve the NFC, CU, or NSS, or any
combination thereof. As soon as the NFC is removed from
the CU these custom algorithms are no longer operative,
perhaps not even present, in the CU.

[End excerpts]





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 03:27:04 +0800
To: Gordon Jeff  INSP 
Subject: CJ's Teeth/Glasses
In-Reply-To: <9F00F15E736BD11196B700A0C98448FE0A97BD@WR-SEA-SERVER-2>
Message-ID: <199811181850.NAA03064@smtp2.atl.mindspring.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jeff,

Alia Johnson reports that CJ has not had his teeth and
glasses returned. Can you tell me, or refer me to someone
who can, what is needed to get that done. Or if I have no 
right to get involved who else should make the request. 
Got a Fedex account ready for use.

Thanks much,

John




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Vin McLellan 
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 04:12:07 +0800
To: "Brown, R Ken" 
Subject: RE: Rivest Patent
In-Reply-To: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F859D@MSX11002>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I conceed your point.  Nicely reasoned. Thank you.

	_Vin


At 12:12 PM -0500 11/18/98, Brown, R Ken wrote:

>The real point is surely  that a patent for a device invented by someone
>with  a basic knowledge of physics is used to protect the *invention*
>not the *knowledge*. They are not used to prevent anyone else inventing
>another device using the same basic knowledge of physics.
>
>Even if it is perfectly just for the RSA (or any other) patent "taken as
>a whole" to be used to protect  "not merely a disembodied mathematical
>concept but rather a specific machine";  that *doesn''t* mean it is
>neccessarily just to use the patent to protect that "disembodied
>mathematical concept" when it is used in some other "specific machine".
>But software patents *are* used to try to stop people employing the same
>algorithms in other inventions. So, despite  the ingenuous  ruling of
>the court they *are* being used to try to control "disembodied
>mathematical concepts" - in other words ideas.
>
>I have no idea if Watt had a patent on the steam governor. But I bet he
>didn't try to take one out on Boyle's Law.
>
>
>Ken Brown


-----
      Vin McLellan + The Privacy Guild + 
  53 Nichols St., Chelsea, MA 02150 USA <617> 884-5548
                         -- <@><@> --





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Bernardo B. Terrado" 
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 16:05:29 +0800
To: coderpunks@toad.com
Subject: statgraphics....
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Could someone give me a copy of statgraphics for dos or windows?
I would gladly appreciate it.

Thank you very much.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"If a student is particular about his studies, especially while he is too
young to know which are useful and which are not, we shall say he is no
lover of learning or of wisdom; just as, if he were dainty about his food,
we should say he was not hungry or fond of eating, but had a poor 
appetite. " ---- PLATO

By the way, it's Bernie not Bernardo.
metaphone@altavista.net
``````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 05:07:29 +0800
To: "Douglas L. Peterson" 
Subject: Re: FC: More on Network Associates and its crypto-politics
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199811182025.MAA21320@smtp.well.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



You're not a US corporation that hopes to use the same software
domestically and abroad, for instance. 


At 01:07 PM 11-18-98 -0700, Douglas L. Peterson wrote:
>Declan McCullagh wrote:
>> 
>> William -- your speculation may be true, but for now we can settle for
>> fact: they do support export controls. It makes sense, too: export ctrls
>> create an artificial market for key recovery crypto, which TIS will be
>> happy to sell to you.
>
>Wouldn't this only work if import controls were put in place?  Right now
>there is very little to keep me from buying non-GAK software from
>someone
>other than TIS.
>
>-Doug
>www.TheServerFarm.net
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 05:57:57 +0800
To: Anonymous 
Message-ID: <199811182114.NAA06149@smtp.well.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



If anonymous has any evidence that TIS' policy has changed from earlier
this year, I'd like to hear it.

I guess if anonymous wants to call me an "extremist," I'll take it as a
compliment. Personally I think of myself as pragmatic.

-Declan


At 08:03 PM 11-18-98 +0100, Anonymous wrote:
>Declan McCullagh writes:
>
>>TIS supports export controls on encryption products. My article:
>> http://www.well.com/user/declan/pubs/cwd.shadow.cryptocrats.0298.txt
>
>Two problems here.  First, you are using the present tense in saying that
>TIS "supports" export controls, but your article is from nine months ago.
>There have been many changes since then, including loosening of the crypto
>export rules, the acquisition of TIS by Network Associates, and a recent
>statement that TIS has backed off from its leadership role in advocating
>key recovery.  What is TIS's current policy?  It certainly sounds like
>it is changing.  You should find out before claiming to know what it is.
>
>Second, even in the context of last February, what you wrote is:
>
>> Some of the firms selected also endorse restrictions. Trusted Information 
>> Systems recently circulated a policy paper calling for "sensible" 
>> legislation to "make the export of 56-bit current interim DES controls 
>> permanent and permit the export of stronger encryption when it is combined 
>> with a key recovery system." (Which, coincidentally, TIS is happy to sell 
>> you...)
>
>At the time, this would have represented a LIBERALIZATION of export laws.
>56 bit exports were only allowed in the context of a promise to add key
>recovery even for 56 bit keys.  The statement you have quoted calls for
>allowing 56 bit key export permanently, and only requiring key recovery
>for stronger encryption.  True, it was not a call for full elimination
>of restrictions, but it was a step in the right direction.
>
>You are falling into the tiresome pattern of extremists who claim that
>moderates are lackeys for the other side.  It's like an anti-abortion
>fanatic who says that those who oppose murdering abortion doctors are
>baby killers.  Try reporting the facts instead of altering them to fit
>your biased views.
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 03:32:15 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: FC: More on Network Associates and its crypto-politics
Message-ID: <199811181903.UAA22584@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Declan McCullagh writes:

>TIS supports export controls on encryption products. My article:
> http://www.well.com/user/declan/pubs/cwd.shadow.cryptocrats.0298.txt

Two problems here.  First, you are using the present tense in saying that
TIS "supports" export controls, but your article is from nine months ago.
There have been many changes since then, including loosening of the crypto
export rules, the acquisition of TIS by Network Associates, and a recent
statement that TIS has backed off from its leadership role in advocating
key recovery.  What is TIS's current policy?  It certainly sounds like
it is changing.  You should find out before claiming to know what it is.

Second, even in the context of last February, what you wrote is:

> Some of the firms selected also endorse restrictions. Trusted Information 
> Systems recently circulated a policy paper calling for "sensible" 
> legislation to "make the export of 56-bit current interim DES controls 
> permanent and permit the export of stronger encryption when it is combined 
> with a key recovery system." (Which, coincidentally, TIS is happy to sell 
> you...)

At the time, this would have represented a LIBERALIZATION of export laws.
56 bit exports were only allowed in the context of a promise to add key
recovery even for 56 bit keys.  The statement you have quoted calls for
allowing 56 bit key export permanently, and only requiring key recovery
for stronger encryption.  True, it was not a call for full elimination
of restrictions, but it was a step in the right direction.

You are falling into the tiresome pattern of extremists who claim that
moderates are lackeys for the other side.  It's like an anti-abortion
fanatic who says that those who oppose murdering abortion doctors are
baby killers.  Try reporting the facts instead of altering them to fit
your biased views.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 12:58:08 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: What's up with algebra.com?
Message-ID: <199811190440.WAA00215@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Hi,

Anyone heard what the status of algebra.com is?

I've removed them from the SSZ distribution list temporarily, when they come
back I'll re-add the site.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 13:16:40 +0800
To: ravage@einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Subject: Re: What's up with algebra.com?
In-Reply-To: <199811190440.WAA00215@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <199811190500.XAA00326@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Its back on.

I am REALLY tired of antispammers. They are responsible for a lot more
problems than spammers themselves. It is all the fault of the bullshit
antispam software running on sites that feed me mail.

igor


Jim Choate wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Anyone heard what the status of algebra.com is?
> 
> I've removed them from the SSZ distribution list temporarily, when they come
> back I'll re-add the site.
> 
> 
>     ____________________________________________________________________
>  
>             Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
>             the right answers.
> 
>                                         Scully (X-Files)
> 
>        The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
>        Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
>        www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
>                            -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
>     --------------------------------------------------------------------
> 



	- Igor.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 13:30:17 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Test (algebra.com is back)
Message-ID: <199811190514.XAA00928@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Test (algebra.com) is back...




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 13:35:30 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Goldbach's Conjecture - a question about prime sums of odd numbers...
Message-ID: <199811190522.XAA01164@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Hi,

I have a question related to Goldbach's Conjecture:

All even numbers greater than two can be represented as the sum of primes.

Is there any work on whether odd numbers can always be represented as the
sum of primes? This of course implies that the number of prime members
must be odd and must exclude 1 (unless you can have more than a single
instance of a given prime). Has this been examined?

I'm assuming, since I can't find it explicitly stated anywhere, that
Goldbachs Conjecture allows those prime factors to occur in multiple
instances.

I've pawed through my number theory books and can't find anything relating
to this as regards odd numbers.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Douglas L. Peterson" 
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 14:57:02 +0800
To: "cypherpunks@Algebra.COM>
Subject: Re: CJ Update Corrected
Message-ID: <3653B9AF.59B78D59@chisp.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



John Young wrote:
> 
> This is attorney protected information.
> 
> Received today by e-mail:
> 
> November 16, 1998
> Springfield, Missouri
> 
> To:  friends of Carl Johnson, The Last Canadian
> Outlaw (name of his last album)
> 
> From:   Alia Johnson
> 
> I saw CJ today at the Springfield facility for the
> criminally disturbing. We spent five hours, a lot of
> laughing, a little crying, and talking, with lots of
> cameras and mikes on us. The controllers would not
> let me take notes!
[large snip]

 
> CJ has been without glasses and without his teeth for
> the whole time since he was arrested. JEFF GORDON
> STILL HAS CJ'S TEETH. However, his vision has
> improved! He is also without proper medication for
> his Tourette's. The shrink told him that the
> amphetamines he had been prescribed and which were
> working well would probably be stolen by the staff
> anyway. CJ is very conscious of managing his
> neurological condition, with coffee, sugar, fasting,
> and self-control. He does complain that he was so
> pleased with himself that he got through his last
> rage attack without hurting himself or acting it out
> that he punched a wall in celebration and hurt his
> hand!

Someone should talk to Larry Dowling (the lawyer looking
out for CJ's rights) about this.  This seems to be a
violation of the ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act).


-Doug
www.TheServerFarm.net




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 13:53:37 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: A tad more on Goldbach's Conjecture....
Message-ID: <199811190543.XAA01436@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Hi,

I figure I'll share the thought I'm trailing....

Given Goldbach's Conjecture as true then it has a geometric interpretation.

Given a triangle of even area greater than two it can be tiled with a set of
triangles, with areas given by primes, exactly. I'm using equilaterals as a
test case since they're easy to deal with geometricaly.

So, if one can show that this is true then Goldbach's follows.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Blake Buzzini" 
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 13:29:33 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks List" 
Subject: Crypto Coops/Internships (Other Than NSA)??
Message-ID: <001001be137a$32401170$88e3ba92@ruby-river>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Does anyone know of any cryptology-related coop/internship programs other
than the one offered by the NSA?

Blake Buzzini, PSU




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Eric Cordian 
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 14:35:46 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Goldbach's Conjecture - a question about prime sums of odd numbers...
In-Reply-To: <199811190522.XAA01164@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <199811190620.AAA02077@wire.insync.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate writes:

> Hi,

> I have a question related to Goldbach's Conjecture:

> All even numbers greater than two can be represented as the sum of primes.

All even numbers greater than two can be represented as the sum of 
TWO primes. 

> Is there any work on whether odd numbers can always be represented as the
> sum of primes? 

Goldbach originally suggested that all numbers greater than two could be
expressed as the sum of three primes, if one tossed in 1 as a prime
number.  Euler pointed out that this was equivalent to even numbers
greater than two being expressed as the sum of two primes. 

This seemed a somewhat cleaner formulation, and it was adopted.

-- 
Sponsor the DES Analytic Crack Project
http://www.cyberspace.org/~enoch/crakfaq.html




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Blake Buzzini" 
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 13:33:07 +0800
To: "CypherPunks" 
Subject: Crypto Coops/Internships (Other Than NSA)??
Message-ID: <001101be137c$48e4f6f0$88e3ba92@ruby-river>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Does anyone know of any cryptology-related coop/internship programs other
than the one offered by the NSA?

Blake Buzzini, PSU




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Vipul Ved Prakash 
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 05:45:32 +0800
To: Cypherpunks 
Subject: VSNL Censors Indian Internet Sites.
Message-ID: <19981119021626.A682@fountainhead.vipul.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



   17 November, 1998
   FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
   Contact: Vipul Ved Prakash, 2233328.
   

   VSNL Censors Indian Internet Sites


   NEW DELHI, INDIA - VSNL, the Indian Internet monopoly, has been
   illegally blocking Internet access to a number of Indian web sites for
   the last several weeks, a Delhi-based Internet presence provider
   revealed today. The block affects only Indian citizens in India -
   users anywhere else in the world are not affected.
   
   One of the sites targeted is Sense/NET, (www.sensenet.net). Sense/NET
   lets users of VSNL's text-based shell account use the graphical
   Netscape browser over their shell accounts, while using only the
   normal shell account facilities that VSNL provides. With Sense/NET,
   the common man can surf the Internet just like with VSNL's premium
   TCP/IP service, but at a fraction of the cost.
   
   General Logic, the startup company behind the Sense/NET service, is
   not taking the blocking of its server lightly. "We did not so much as
   receive any communication from VSNL about this step, which has the
   potential to seriously affect our business," said Dr. Pawan Jaitly, a
   director of the company. "It seems very strange, too, that a security
   breach was attempted on our server over the Internet just days before
   the blockage."
   
   The censored server, at the (currently blocked) IP address of
   208.222.215.97, hosts a number of other web sites including the
   largest Yellow Pages of Indian exporters and importers available on
   the Internet and the corporate web sites of the Apple Publishing
   Technology Center, NewGen Software, and Educational Consultants India
   Limited.
   
   The award-winning web site of Connect magazine, the first Indian print
   publication to launch a web edition, is also located on the General
   Logic server.
   
   Sense/NET users and others affected by the block who called up VSNL's
   help desk to request clarification on this issue and access to the
   sites were told by VSNL staffers that they did not know what the
   problem was, and that they themselves could not access the sites in
   question. No official intimation or even acknowledgement about the
   block has been forthcoming from VSNL.
   
   This is not the first time VSNL has blocked access to selected sites
   on the Internet. On September 19, 1998, online activist Dr. Arun
   Mehta's writ petition was admitted for hearing in the court of Justice
   Anil Dev Singh, Delhi High Court, against VSNL, challenging its
   blockage of certain Internet sites. The sites listed in the petition
   provide information and software for voice transmissions over the
   Internet.
   
   The petition argues that this action "is wholly without basis in law
   and amounts to arbitrary and illegal censorship of the petitioner's
   Fundamental Right to freedom of speech, expression and information as
   well as an illegal denial of his right to freedom to practice his
   chosen profession."
   
   The petition seeks affirmation that the constitutional rights to free
   speech apply equally in cyberspace, and it also opens up the issue of
   VSNL's ban on Internet telephony to judicial scrutiny. The matter will
   come up for hearing on December 9, 1998. The case is being argued by
   Mr. Ashok Aggarwal.
   
   The Exporters and Importers Yellow Pages web site hosted on General
   Logic's recently blocked server is a vital e-commerce resource for
   over sixty-five thousand traders who earn India valuable foreign
   exchange. "This ban will hurt Indian exporters as well. By banning
   access to sites... VSNL is cynically choosing to let the nation suffer
   severe loss if in the process it can safeguard its own monopolistic
   profits," said Dr. Mehta.
   
   "Ironically, VSNL also blocked Educational Consultants, a public
   sector government organization, with its action."
   
   General Logic was able to move all the web sites that were the victims
   of VSNL's action to a non-blocked area within hours. "Most of our
   clients didn't even notice their sites and email messages were being
   blocked by VSNL," said Dr. Jaitly. The Sense/NET site remains blocked,
   however.
   
   "What VSNL is doing is completely illegal. A website is a means of
   expression and is covered by the right to expression of all indian
   citizens under article 19(1)a of the Indian Constitution. This can
   only be restricted under article 19(2) on 'reasonable grounds' which
   include obscenity, but certainly not the provision of competitive
   services at reasonable cost," commented Rishab Aiyer Ghosh, managing
   editor of First Monday, a European journal on Internet law.
   
   Last year a duo of computer whiz-kids in Cochin released Shellsock, a
   software package that made it possible for users of VSNL shell
   accounts to browse the 'Net graphically. VSNL quickly set about
   working on ways to break Shellsock, and eventually succeeded in
   restricting the environment on its shell accounts to the extent that
   Shellsock was unable to function.
   
   General Logic launched its Sense/NET service soon after, with the goal
   of providing TCP/IP Internet 'tunneling' service to users worldwide,
   not just in India. "There are other countries suffering under the yoke
   of state censorship of the Internet, like China, whose authoritatian
   government, without warning, blocked access to the BBC web site for
   its citizens," said Dr. Mehta. "VSNL is a monopoly that is crippling
   India's progress on the Internet front."
   
   Even Microsoft, he observed, which holds an effective monopoly in the
   operating system market worldwide, has no mandate by any government in
   the market - it has to keep forging ahead or lose to its competitors.
   "VSNL does not have that motivation, and so it is that the Indian
   consumer and India suffer."
   
   Besides the threat of censorship and poor service, another risk with
   state monopoly Internet access providers is that they can read your
   mail, and monitor your communications, as the data flows through their
   systems. Jaitly disclosed that his company is working on providing
   strong military grade encryption as part of its Internet tunneling
   services, to provide secure private networks across untrusted links
   for business and personal use.
   
   "We envision Sense/NET as a sort of 'Meta ISP' providing secure,
   uncensorable Internet tunneling service to people in places where
   local access providers are unable or unwilling to deliver full
   access," said Vipul Ved Prakash, Director of research at General
   Logic. "We believe in every individual's fundamental right to access
   human knowledge without restriction. Our message to these people is:
   'There's light at the end of the tunnel.'"
   
   It's not all crypto-anarchy and dreams of digital revolution, however.
   Sense/NET is a valuable service for ordinary users who are attempting
   to make the most effective use of their VSNL shell accounts with the
   limited services provided. Many of the subscribers to the service are
   students and other low income groups, who simply cannot afford VSNL's
   higher priced services.
   
   A case in point is that of Pranav Lal, a New Delhi student. Pranav is
   blind, and VSNL's shell account is next to useless for him. Sense/NET
   on the other hand allows him to use voice-enabled software to surf the
   'net.
   
   "I can't afford the VSNL TCP/IP account, but for me it is vital that I
   am in touch with my peers over the world over the Internet," says
   Pranav. "Sense/NET is great because it lets me handle my email and
   navigate the web really simply."
   
   "We see the global free flow of ideas across national borders, enabled
   by digital data communications and encryption technology, as the most
   liberating development of the 20th century," said Ashish Gulhati head
   of development at General Logic. "Regulation is futile," he added. The
   company expects its services will be most in demand in countries where
   authoritarian regimes are in power.
   
   "It's shocking that this kind of thing continues to go on in India,"
   observed Dr. Mehta. "We're the world's largest democracy, on the brink
   of entering the 21st century as a major player in the global software
   industry. But we're still enslaved by laws created during the British
   Raj, even in high priority areas like telecom."
   
   [1324 Words]

     _________________________________________________________________
   
   Notes:
   
    1. Dr. Arun Mehta's petition is at
       .

    2. The Forum for Rights to Electronic Expression articles are at
       

    3. Censored sites:
          + http://www.sensenet.net/ (Currently blocked)
          + http://www.trade-india.com/ (Now accessible on a new server)
          + http://www.aptc-india.com/ (Now accessible on a new server)
          + http://www.edcil.org/ (Now accessible on a new server)
          + http://www.newgensoft.com/ (Now accessible on a new server)
          + http://www.newgen.net/ (Now accessible on a new server)
          + http://www.connectmagazine.com/ (Now accessible on a new server)
          + http://www.net2phone.com/ (Currently blocked)
          + http://www.vocaltec.com/ (Currently blocked)
          + http://www.netspeak.com/ (Currently blocked)

    4. Email addresses:
          + Dr. Arun Mehta - amehta@cerf.net
          + Ashish Gulhati - ashish@generalogic.com
          + Ashok Agarwal - ashokagr@del2.vsnl.net.in
          + Dr. Pawan Jaitly - pawan@generalogic.com
          + Rishab Aiyer Ghosh - ghosh@firstmonday.dk
          + Vipul Ved Prakash - vipul@generalogic.com

     _________________________________________________________________
   
   Rev: SNPR v0.06 1998/11/17 15:58:14 webmaster@generalogic.com



-- 

VIPUL VED PRAKASH              Cryptography.             "Everything is what 
mail@vipul.net             |   Distributed Systems. |    it is because it got
http://vipul.net/          |   Network Agents.      |    that way." 
91 11 2233328              |   Perl Hacking.        |  
198 Madhuban IP Extension  |   Linux.               |        d'arcy thompson.
Delhi, INDIA 110 092      /    Networked Media.    /




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: holist 
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 19:57:20 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199811191115.DAA14438@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I only subscribed to this list a few weeks ago. I break my silence in
defense of Bernardo B. Terrado, who was viciously attacked by Adam Hupp and
then rather more graciously advised by Jim Gillogly.

Having read a significant amount of material on the ideological (rather than
the technical) background of cypherpunks (Tim May's writings, mainly) it
seems to me rather obvious that a relative newcomer to these circles would
come to expect to find people who may not be "mannered intellectuals", but
who are certainly not erstwhile defenders of intellectual property,
particularly asthe concept is applied to software today.

I understand that there may be other reasons why it is unwise to post
requests for warez on these lists, but moral outrage at the thought of
software piracy was not one I expected to read here.

Especially as I hear nobody complaining about the advertisement for
pornography that I receive every two days, regular as clockwork, from the
cypherpunks list, not to mention the great deal of other entirely useless,
automatically generated advertising.

Unlike most of you lucky people in the States, I pay through the nose for
on-line time.

Perhaps priorities could do with rethinking.

holist




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 21:29:32 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Forwarded mail...
Message-ID: <199811191312.HAA02344@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 03:15:07 -0800 (PST)
> To: cypherpunks@toad.com
> From: holist 

You should consider subscribing through one of the normal CDR nodes, the
toad.com site is unreliable.

> come to expect to find people who may not be "mannered intellectuals", but
> who are certainly not erstwhile defenders of intellectual property,
> particularly asthe concept is applied to software today.

Now just exactly what makes you believe that I want other people deciding
what happens to the results of my labor?

I support Open Source software, however not to the extent I want somebody
else to decide without my input whether any given piece happens to Open
Source.

> requests for warez on these lists, but moral outrage at the thought of
> software piracy was not one I expected to read here.

Then perhaps you need to work on  your morality.

> Especially as I hear nobody complaining about the advertisement for
> pornography 

So what? How exactly does pornography map to stolen software?

> Unlike most of you lucky people in the States, I pay through the nose for
> on-line time.

Sounds like a personal problem to me.

> Perhaps priorities could do with rethinking.

I agree, you need to do some rethinking.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Gillogly 
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 00:05:14 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Piracy and cypherpunks
Message-ID: <36543A3F.37AC99B@acm.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



holist writes:
> Having read a significant amount of material on the ideological (rather than
> the technical) background of cypherpunks (Tim May's writings, mainly) it
> seems to me rather obvious that a relative newcomer to these circles would
> come to expect to find people who may not be "mannered intellectuals", but
> who are certainly not erstwhile defenders of intellectual property,
> particularly asthe concept is applied to software today.

Hurm.  Does Tim May advocate passing around unlicensed copies of an $895
Statgraphics program?  I think I must have missed that post.  In any case,
cypherpunks are not a monolithic bunch.  While many (like me) are wild-eyed
libertarians of one flavor or another, others are feds, corporate shills,
government apologists, prepubescent hackers, and (d'oh) working professionals
in the computing industry.  I, for example, do believe that the concept of
intellectual property makes sense in some cases -- e.g. the inventions of
public-key encryption and the RSA algorithm, which were important breakthroughs
that merit substantial rewards, and I recognize that this is probably not a
majority cypherpunk opinion.  I do  appreciate patents on all the
ticky-tack trivial modifications of every silly algorithm that nobody else
thought was worth patenting.

However, pirating commercial software is not a good way to make your protest.
If you don't want to pay for it, write your own version and make it freely
available.

> Especially as I hear nobody complaining about the advertisement for
> pornography that I receive every two days, regular as clockwork, from the
> cypherpunks list, not to mention the great deal of other entirely useless,
> automatically generated advertising.

The difference is that the porn spammers don't read the lists they spam,
so complaining on the list does no good.  The piracy request came from a
fairly regular poster to this list.  Big difference.  One kind of complaint
might lead to a behavioral change, and the other leads only to more noise.

If I  be mannered and intellectual when addressing wannabe software
pirates, I'll quote Catullus:  Pedicabo et irrumabo, Mentula!

-- 
	Jim Gillogly
	29 Blotmath S.R. 1998, 15:12
	12.19.5.12.12, 4 Eb 5 Ceh, Ninth Lord of Night




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ken Williams 
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 22:02:47 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: your mail
In-Reply-To: <199811191115.DAA14438@toad.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Thu, 19 Nov 1998, holist wrote:

>> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 03:15:07 -0800 (PST)
>> From: holist 
>> To: cypherpunks@toad.com
>> 
>> I only subscribed to this list a few weeks ago. I break my silence in
>> defense of Bernardo B. Terrado, who was viciously attacked by Adam Hupp and
>> then rather more graciously advised by Jim Gillogly.

"viciously attacked" ???  He was begging for warez!  Any self-respecting, 
patriotic Amercian citizen would have reporting him to the IRS for not paying 
his "Warez Tax".  He should be glad that i'm not that person.
 
>> Having read a significant amount of material on the ideological (rather than
>> the technical) background of cypherpunks (Tim May's writings, mainly) it
>> seems to me rather obvious that a relative newcomer to these circles would
>> come to expect to find people who may not be "mannered intellectuals", but
>> who are certainly not erstwhile defenders of intellectual property,
>> particularly asthe concept is applied to software today.

You calling me a "warez pup"?
 
>> I understand that there may be other reasons why it is unwise to post
>> requests for warez on these lists, but moral outrage at the thought of
>> software piracy was not one I expected to read here.

A "pat on the back" and $500 in e-cash instead?
 
>> Especially as I hear nobody complaining about the advertisement for
>> pornography that I receive every two days, regular as clockwork, from the
>> cypherpunks list, not to mention the great deal of other entirely useless,
>> automatically generated advertising.

Are you now complaining about quality free pr0n links???  Where is your 
gratitude?
 
>> Unlike most of you lucky people in the States, I pay through the nose for
>> on-line time.

Yes, CJ is lucky to have the IRS alright.
 
>> Perhaps priorities could do with rethinking.

Tell me about it!  You need some help with yours?
 
>> holist
>> 
>> 

Regards,

Ken Williams

Packet Storm Security        http://www.Genocide2600.com/~tattooman/
E.H.A.P. Head of Operations  http://www.ehap.org/   ehap@ehap.org
NC State CS Dept  http://www.csc.ncsu.edu/   jkwilli2@unity.ncsu.edu
PGP DSS/DH/RSA Keys          http://www4.ncsu.edu/~jkwilli2/pgpkey/

_____________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free, Encrypted Email at http://www.nsa.gov





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Gillogly 
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 01:04:52 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Goldbach's Conjecture - a question about prime sums of odd numbers
Message-ID: <365448AE.D504F2D6@acm.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Ray Arachelian wrote:
> "Igor Chudov @ home" wrote:

> > Well, take 11, for example, it cannot be repsesented as a sum of different
> > primes. It cannot, pure and simple.

> Bullshit: 7+5+(-1)=11.  Last I heard, negative numbers weren't excluded from 
> being primes.  7 is different from 5, -1 is different from 7 and from 5.

If this is boiling down to a definition of primes, I'll haul out my Hardy &
Wright, page 2:

    A number p is said to be prime if (i) p > 1, (ii) p has no positive
    divisors except 1 and p.  ...  It is important to observe that 1 is not
    reckoned as a prime.

My number theory class at college (admittedly that was three decades ago)
also started the prime series at 2 and went up from there.  The term
"odd primes" always meant 3 and above, not 1 and above.

YMMV.
-- 
	Jim Gillogly
	29 Blotmath S.R. 1998, 16:29
	12.19.5.12.12, 4 Eb 5 Ceh, Ninth Lord of Night




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 23:26:45 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Goldbach & two or more primes...
Message-ID: <199811191437.IAA02597@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Hi,

I'm aware of the Goldbach Reduction by Fermat. The problem is once this
theorem is placed in the geometric domain the fact that n-prime factors can
be reduced to 2 prime factors is critical and a hinderance. 

It simply isn't possible to tile a even aread triangle with two smaller
congruent triangles whose area is prime. As a result Goldbach's older form
is more applicable.

If it can be shown that such a tiling is always possible then by extension
of Fermat's conjecture the two prime supposition is proved.

Reductionism can be a friend or an enemy, swords cut both ways.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 16:35:15 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199811190754.IAA15057@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



 #####      #    ######
 #    #     #    #
 #    #     #    #####
 #    #     #    #
 #    #     #    #
 #####      #    ######

                                         #####
 #    #     #     ####   #####    ####  #  #  #   ####   ######   #####
 ##  ##     #    #    #  #    #  #    # #  #     #    #  #          #
 # ## #     #    #       #    #  #    #  #####   #    #  #####      #
 #    #     #    #       #####   #    #    #  #  #    #  #          #
 #    #     #    #    #  #   #   #    # #  #  #  #    #  #          #
 #    #     #     ####   #    #   ####   #####    ####   #          #

 #####      #    ######
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 #####      #    ######


FUCK micro$oft. Kill them all. Nuke Redmond.
Sodomize bILL gATES.
Cut his micro$oft prick and shove it up
his own ass. 
Rabid motherfucking whoremongerz at redmond.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 00:01:10 +0800
To: ravage@einstein.ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Subject: Re: Goldbach's Conjecture - a question about prime sums of odd numbers...
In-Reply-To: <199811190522.XAA01164@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <199811191526.JAA05438@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Jim Choate wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I have a question related to Goldbach's Conjecture:
> 
> All even numbers greater than two can be represented as the sum of primes.

Hold on right here, Jim.

Do you mean a sum of DIFFERENT primes?

Because any number greater than 1 can be represented as a sum of some 2s
and some 3s. 

E.g. 8 = 3+3+2, 9 = 3+3+3, 10 = 3+3+2+2, etc.

Since this is so boring, I assume that the primes must be different.

> Is there any work on whether odd numbers can always be represented as the
> sum of primes?

Well, take 11, for example, it cannot be repsesented as a sum of different
primes. It cannot, pure and simple.

So, the above hypothesis is incorrect. No need for high powered math here.

> This of course implies that the number of prime members
> must be odd and must exclude 1 (unless you can have more than a single
> instance of a given prime). Has this been examined?

Why, let's say 5 = 3+2, it is a sum of an even number of primes.

I suggest that first "examination" should always include playing
with trivial examples.

> I'm assuming, since I can't find it explicitly stated anywhere, that
> Goldbachs Conjecture allows those prime factors to occur in multiple
> instances.

If multiple instances are allowed, it is an enormously boring conjecture
for 5 grade school students.

any number above 1 may be represented as a sum of some 3s and some
2s. Big deal.

> I've pawed through my number theory books and can't find anything relating
> to this as regards odd numbers.


	- Igor.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Phillips, Sidney R" 
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 02:17:24 +0800
To: "'cypherpunks@Algebra.COM>
Subject: Goldbach Conjecture
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



For a reference on the Goldbach Conjecture see:

http://www.astro.virginia.edu/~eww6n/math/GoldbachConjecture.html




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 02:39:44 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Piracy and cypherpunks
In-Reply-To: <36543A3F.37AC99B@acm.org>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 7:33 AM -0800 11/19/98, Jim Gillogly wrote:
>holist writes:
>> Having read a significant amount of material on the ideological (rather than
>> the technical) background of cypherpunks (Tim May's writings, mainly) it
>> seems to me rather obvious that a relative newcomer to these circles would
>> come to expect to find people who may not be "mannered intellectuals", but
>> who are certainly not erstwhile defenders of intellectual property,
>> particularly asthe concept is applied to software today.
>
>Hurm.  Does Tim May advocate passing around unlicensed copies of an $895
>Statgraphics program?  I think I must have missed that post.  In any case,
>cypherpunks are not a monolithic bunch.  While many (like me) are wild-eyed
>libertarians of one flavor or another, others are feds, corporate shills,
>government apologists, prepubescent hackers, and (d'oh) working professionals
>in the computing industry.  I, for example, do believe that the concept of
>intellectual property makes sense in some cases -- e.g. the inventions of
>public-key encryption and the RSA algorithm, which were important
>breakthroughs
>that merit substantial rewards, and I recognize that this is probably not a
>majority cypherpunk opinion.  I do  appreciate patents on all the
>ticky-tack trivial modifications of every silly algorithm that nobody else
>thought was worth patenting.

Somewhat off-topic, though issues of property, ownership, law, enforcement,
etc., are related to Cypherpunks and/or anarchocapitalist topics.

Anyway, I've expressed my views in many posts, mostly in the early years of
the list, and in the 1994 Cyphernomicon. Off the top of my head, without
reference to these earlier items, here are a few points. Some of them may
contradict other points (I contain multitudes):

-- "warez" distribution is not a primary purpose for Cypherpunks, either at
the physical meetings I've been to, or in the 6 years of the list

-- I generally pay for my programs, though this has often made me a sucker
(paying $400 for a product which failed to perform, or where the company
ceased to exist)

-- I have "borrowed" programs, e.g., pirated them. I think most of us have.
This is not my normal practice, but, then, I don't blithely write out
checks for $400 or $795 for programs I have only _heard_ about, or have
only read _reviews_ of.

(Corporations have the resources, and the number of potential "seats," to
make evaluation purchases feasible. In many cases, even most, the companies
are given copies for evaluation. Private individuals usually have no such
paths available to them. I'm not arguing for a "right of theft" for
individuals, just noting some obvious differences. An individual who has
"borrowed" a copy of a program is in a somewhat different position than,
for example, a corporation which has made 30 illegal copies of that program
for their office use. And not just because of the number of copies, in my
view.)

-- all issues of intellectual property are also issues of _enforceability_.
To the extent anonymous remailers, information markets, regulatory
arbitrage, systems like "BlackNet" ("BlackeBay," anyone?), and other crypto
anarchy technologies proliferate, enforcement of any particular nation's
intellectual property laws will become problematic.


-- finally, the U.S. position on patentability and copyrightability of
software and words is not the only position one may find morally
supportable. We do not, for example, allow "ideas" to be patented or
copyrighted (I don't mean "expressions of ideas," as in patents, or
"precise words," as in copyrights. Rather, I mean that we do not allow a
person to "own" an idea. To imagine the alternative, cf. Galambos.)


Long term, I expect current notions about intellectual property will have
to change.

I'm a big believer in "technological determinism." For example, in my own
view (which I have debated with some well known cyberspace lawyers over the
years), the widespread deployment of video cassette recorders (VCRs)
necessarily changed the intellectual property laws. The Supreme Court, in
Disney v. Sony, uttered a bunch of stuff about time-shifting, blah blah,
but the real reason, I think, boiled down to this:

"VCRs have become widespread. If people tape shows in their own homes, even
violating copyrighted material, there is no way law enforcement can stop
them short of instituting a police state and doing random spot checks. The
horse is out of the barn, the genie is out of the bottle. The law has to
change. But rather than admit that copyright is no longer practically
enforceable, we have to couch our decision in terms of "time-shifting" and
other such fig leaves."

So, too, will anonymous remailers, black pipes, information markets,
regulatory arbitrage, and suchlike change the nature of intellectual
property.

What form these changes will take, I don't know.

--Tim May

Common Y2K line: "I'm not preparing, but I know where _you_ live."
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 00:40:05 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Goldbach's Conjecture - a question about prime sums of odd numbers... (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811191556.JAA03049@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Subject: Re: Goldbach's Conjecture - a question about prime sums of odd numbers...
> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 09:26:56 -0600 (CST)
> From: ichudov@Algebra.Com (Igor Chudov @ home)

> > All even numbers greater than two can be represented as the sum of primes.
> 
> Do you mean a sum of DIFFERENT primes?

None of the references that I've looked at state it clearly but I assume
that it must be or else we could just use 1 for everything.

> > Is there any work on whether odd numbers can always be represented as the
> > sum of primes?
> 
> Well, take 11, for example, it cannot be repsesented as a sum of different
> primes. It cannot, pure and simple.

Sure it can, 1 + 3 + 7. It can't be the PRODUCT of two lower primes since
it wouldn't be prime then. This sum by the way CAN'T be reduced to two primes
so Fermat's Conjecture applied to odds is clearly false.

The only proviso is the number we want to sum TO must be greater than 2.

ALL numbers can be represented as sums of primes, the question is whether
you allow repeats or not.

> > This of course implies that the number of prime members
> > must be odd and must exclude 1 (unless you can have more than a single
> > instance of a given prime). Has this been examined?
> 
> Why, let's say 5 = 3+2, it is a sum of an even number of primes.

In the number theory realm, I agree. In the geometric real (in particular
using equilateral triangles) those constraints hold.

Note that the smallest number of sums for your example above is odd. The
reason that you must exclude the problem becomes trivial if you aren't
required to sum the 1's.

> I suggest that first "examination" should always include playing
> with trivial examples.

No kidding?

> If multiple instances are allowed, it is an enormously boring conjecture
> for 5 grade school students.
> 
> any number above 1 may be represented as a sum of some 3s and some
> 2s. Big deal.

Actualy they are simply sums of 1's, its actualy first grade math.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 00:35:20 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: manners (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811191606.KAA03196@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: Richard.Bragg@ssa.co.uk
> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 15:14:44 +0000
> Subject: manners

> There are ways and means.  If someone requests software that is NOT free
> then a simple NO will surfice.  A list of contacts to purchase would aid
> income for the producer.
> An additional approach would be to suggest alternatives that are free.
> 
> There is never any call to be rude.

Agreed, just be sure you can recognize the difference between rude and
simply uncomfortable directness.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 00:38:05 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Goldbach's Conjecture - a question about prime sums of odd (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811191607.KAA03257@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 11:01:31 -0500
> From: Ray Arachelian 
> Subject: Re: Goldbach's Conjecture - a question about prime sums of odd 
>  numbers...

> Bullshit: 7+5+(-1)=11.  Last I heard, negative numbers weren't excluded from 
> being primes.  7 is different from 5, -1 is different from 7 and from 5.

Shit! I wasn't even thinking of negatives....

Thanks.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 01:06:55 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 12:22 AM -0500 11/19/98, Jim Choate wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I have a question related to Goldbach's Conjecture:
>
>All even numbers greater than two can be represented as the sum of primes.
>
>Is there any work on whether odd numbers can always be represented as the
>sum of primes? This of course implies that the number of prime members
>must be odd and must exclude 1 (unless you can have more than a single
>instance of a given prime). Has this been examined?
>
>I'm assuming, since I can't find it explicitly stated anywhere, that
>Goldbachs Conjecture allows those prime factors to occur in multiple
>instances.
>
>I've pawed through my number theory books and can't find anything relating
>to this as regards odd numbers.

	Well, since all primes over 2 are odd, and the sum of two odd
numbers is always even, there goes that theory.

	Unless they changed the rules on primes since I last checked.
--
"To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a
jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a
gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather naďve, and certainly
unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust"
http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html

Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro@playboy.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 00:53:39 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 12:22 AM -0500 11/19/98, Jim Choate wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I have a question related to Goldbach's Conjecture:
>
>All even numbers greater than two can be represented as the sum of primes.
>
>Is there any work on whether odd numbers can always be represented as the
>sum of primes? This of course implies that the number of prime members
>must be odd and must exclude 1 (unless you can have more than a single
>instance of a given prime). Has this been examined?
>
>I'm assuming, since I can't find it explicitly stated anywhere, that
>Goldbachs Conjecture allows those prime factors to occur in multiple
>instances.
>
>I've pawed through my number theory books and can't find anything relating
>to this as regards odd numbers.

	Whoops, jumped the gun on that last one, didn't read thru a second
time.

	Sorry.
--
"To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a
jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a
gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather naďve, and certainly
unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust"
http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html

Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro@playboy.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 03:36:35 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: RE: manners
In-Reply-To: <802566C1.00536A3E.00@seunt002e.ssa.co.uk>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 8:21 AM -0800 11/19/98, Iain Collins wrote:
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-cypherpunks@toad.com [mailto:owner-cypherpunks@toad.com]On
>> Behalf Of Richard.Bragg@ssa.co.uk
>> Sent: 19 November 1998 15:15
>> To: cypherpunks@toad.com
>> Subject: manners
>>
>>
>> There are ways and means.  If someone requests software that is NOT free
>> then a simple NO will surfice.  A list of contacts to purchase would aid
>> income for the producer.
>> An additional approach would be to suggest alternatives that are free.
>>
>> There is never any call to be rude.
>
>It is _rude_ to ask for stolen goods - particularly when implicating
>everyone on this list as an accessory to intent to commit piracy - who does
>not report this luser to the authorities in the - process.

Nonsense. I am not "implicated" as an accessory to anything. Speak for
yourself only.

There is no basis in law for the notion that several hundred subscribers to
a mailing list are implicated in something because others talk about it.
Get real.

As for the claim that we are "lusers" if we don't report this request, let
us know how your own report is received. I will check for your posts
regularly, and report you to the proper authorities if you fail in your
self-declared duty here.

--Tim May

Common Y2K line: "I'm not preparing, but I know where _you_ live."
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 01:30:16 +0800
To: sunder@brainlink.com (Ray Arachelian)
Subject: Re: Goldbach's Conjecture - a question about prime sums of odd
In-Reply-To: <365440DB.A689C02@brainlink.com>
Message-ID: <199811191653.KAA06166@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Ray Arachelian wrote:
> 
> 
> "Igor Chudov @ home" wrote:
> 
> > Well, take 11, for example, it cannot be repsesented as a sum of different
> > primes. It cannot, pure and simple.
> 
> Bullshit: 7+5+(-1)=11.  Last I heard, negative numbers weren't excluded from 
> being primes.  7 is different from 5, -1 is different from 7 and from 5.

I have no idea where you heard it, but primes are numbers greater than 1,
by definition.

	- Igor.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ray Arachelian 
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 00:45:35 +0800
To: Igor Chudov 
Subject: Re: Goldbach's Conjecture - a question about prime sums of odd numbers...
In-Reply-To: <199811191526.JAA05438@manifold.algebra.com>
Message-ID: <365440DB.A689C02@brainlink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



"Igor Chudov @ home" wrote:

> Well, take 11, for example, it cannot be repsesented as a sum of different
> primes. It cannot, pure and simple.

Bullshit: 7+5+(-1)=11.  Last I heard, negative numbers weren't excluded from 
being primes.  7 is different from 5, -1 is different from 7 and from 5.


-- 

=====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos==============
.+.^.+.|       Sunder       |Prying open my 3rd eye.  So good to see |./|\.
..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were      |/\|/\
<--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run  |\/|\/
../|\..| "A toast to Odin,  |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/.
.+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were....            |.....
======================= http://www.sundernet.com ==========================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 01:50:54 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Goldbach's Conjecture - a question about prime sums of odd (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811191719.LAB04034@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Subject: Re: Goldbach's Conjecture - a question about prime sums of odd
> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 10:53:50 -0600 (CST)
> From: ichudov@Algebra.Com (Igor Chudov @ home)

> I have no idea where you heard it, but primes are numbers greater than 1,
> by definition.

Actualy a prime is any number which has no multiplicitave factors other than
itself and 1.

Does that mean negatives can't be prime numbers?

So, -3 breaks down to:

-3 * 1 = -3; 3 * -1 would be another set of factors so negatives can't be
primes in the strictest sense.




    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 01:46:56 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Goldbach's Conjecture - a question about prime sums of odd numbers (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811191722.LAA04172@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 12:18:26 -0500
> From: Ray Arachelian 
> Subject: Re: Goldbach's Conjecture - a question about prime sums of odd numbers

> So I guess I have to take back 7+5+(-1) and go with Jim's 1+3+7, but fuck,
> that won't work either since 1 isn't a prime...  So I guess Igor is right on
> this one.  Sorry Jim... 

A prime is defined as *ANY* number (note the definition doesn't mention
sign or magnitude nor does it exclude any numbers a priori) that has no
multiplicative factors other than itself and 1.

1 * 1 = 1 so it is clearly prime.

Now, if a particular branch of number theory wants to extend it and make it
only numbers >=2 that is fine, I'm not working in that branch anyway.



    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 04:30:38 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Cypherpunks is not a moderated list
In-Reply-To: <199811191115.DAA14438@toad.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 3:15 AM -0800 11/19/98, holist wrote:
>I only subscribed to this list a few weeks ago. I break my silence in
>defense of Bernardo B. Terrado, who was viciously attacked by Adam Hupp and
>then rather more graciously advised by Jim Gillogly.
>
>Having read a significant amount of material on the ideological (rather than
>the technical) background of cypherpunks (Tim May's writings, mainly) it
>seems to me rather obvious that a relative newcomer to these circles would
>come to expect to find people who may not be "mannered intellectuals", but
>who are certainly not erstwhile defenders of intellectual property,
>particularly asthe concept is applied to software today.
>
>I understand that there may be other reasons why it is unwise to post
>requests for warez on these lists, but moral outrage at the thought of
>software piracy was not one I expected to read here.

Don't confuse the views you hear from some particular person(s) to be the
collective, group views of the list, or the views of me, and so on. (This
applies to your point below about porn, too.)

>
>Especially as I hear nobody complaining about the advertisement for
>pornography that I receive every two days, regular as clockwork, from the
>cypherpunks list, not to mention the great deal of other entirely useless,
>automatically generated advertising.
>
>Unlike most of you lucky people in the States, I pay through the nose for
>on-line time.
>
>Perhaps priorities could do with rethinking.

You seem to think the Cypherpunks mailing list is some kind of moderated,
edited forum, with porn ads sent deliberately by the Governing Body of
Editors.

What goes out to the *reflector* is what comes in. Nothing more, nothing less.

You are of course free to create your own moderated, edited list.

Oh, and please learn to attach Subject names to your posts. And
"cypherpunks@toad.com" is not one of the preferred list addresses...hasn't
been for a year or two.

--Tim May

Common Y2K line: "I'm not preparing, but I know where _you_ live."
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Burnes 
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 02:31:34 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: [XCERT-ANNOUNCE] Network Associates Relationship (fwd)
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Thought this might be of some interest considering the current
NAI thread.

jim

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 13:13:27 -0800
From: Tim Gage 
To: xcert-announce@xcert.com
Subject: [XCERT-ANNOUNCE] Network Associates Relationship

TO:		Xcert Friends and Partners
FROM:		Thomas Nolan, president and CEO
DATE:		November 18, 1998
RE:		Network Associates Relationship
_______________________________________

I'm pleased to report that Xcert International and Network Associates Inc.
(NAI) recently announced a technology licensing agreement where NAI will
integrate Xcert's software as the default PKI in their Net Tools Secure
product suite. This relationship will PKI enable NAI's security
offerings-including a suite of best-in-class security applications that
encompasses firewall, intrusion protection, vulnerability scanning,
encryption, authentication, anti-virus and security management. 

NAI is a company with approximately $1 Billion in revenue, 5,000 enterprise
customers, presence on 60 million desktops and 80% plus penetration into
the Global 2000. This is a significant win for Xcert and provides for joint
marketing and sales activities, including licensing of certain NAI
applications to Xcert, pre-notification of NAI product and technology
direction and, most important, the ability for Xcert to work with NAI to
sell general purpose PKI into their installed customer base..  

Xcert was selected over its competitors because of its superior technology,
principally the ability to interoperate with other vendors. NAI's
market-leading Total Network Security solution will seed Xcert's technology
into the market and will also provide NAI's customers with "hooks" to
seamlessly build Xcert's general purpose PKI infrastructure and products
into their networks.

This is a significant win for Xcert. The NAI adoption of Xcert as their
preferred PKI provider adds value to Xcert's brand recognition. This news
is yet another compelling endorsement of Xcert's products. In addition, the
ability to work with NAI's customer base provides substantial opportunity
to Xcert.  

I am sure you will share my enthusiasm for this momentous milestone on
Xcert's road to major market share.

-------------------------------------------------------------
For Immediate Release:

NETWORK ASSOCIATES TO SHIP COMPREHENSIVE PKI FROM XCERT INTERNATIONAL WITH
ALL SECURITY PRODUCT SUITES

Network Associates Customers to Receive Scalable Open-Standards Certificate
Management Integrated Into Net Tools Secure Product Line

SANTA CLARA, Calif., November 17 - Network Associates, Inc. (Nasdaq: NETA)
unveiled the next step in its integrated security strategy today by
announcing a technology partnership with Xcert International that will
bring full open-standards PKI (public key infrastructure) functionality to
all Network Associates customers as a standard feature of its integrated
security product suites. Beginning in the first quarter of 1999, all
integrated security suites from Network Associates will include the new Net
Tools PKI server, an enterprise-scaleable PKI server based on Xcert's
award-winning digital certificate management technology. 

"Network Associates has been very aggressive in driving much needed open
standards and interoperability in the security space," said Sanjay Kalra,
president of Icons, Inc., a leading nationwide PKI consulting firm. "By
working with Xcert to include a complete standards-based PKI in all of
their security application suites at no extra charge, Network Associates is
making things like universal client VPNs and active response firewalls a
reality for customers of all sizes. This announcement is the perfect
follow-up to their previous PKI partnerships with VeriSign and Entrust."

As a result of this partnership, Network Associates customers will be able
to broadly deploy integrated security solutions that interoperate through
secure and authenticated channels. With this announcement, Network
Associates becomes the first vendor to enable secure, scaleable integration
between individual security applications by providing flexible PKI
functionality out of the box and universally supporting existing PKI
solutions like those from partners like VeriSign (Nasdaq: VRSN), Entrust
Technologies (Nasdaq: ENTU) and Xcert.  Network Associates customers will
be licensed to use the new Net Tools PKI with any Network Associates
application. 

Under the terms of the agreement, Network Associates will integrate Xcert's
award-winning PKI technology into its Net Tools Secure product line, a
suite of best-in-class security applications spanning firewall, intrusion
protection, vulnerability scanning, encryption, authentication, anti-virus,
and security management. Xcert's flexible open architecture has received
multiple industry accolades this year, including a recent Editor's Choice
selection from Network Computing that praised Xcert's technology as the
"best strategic choice for PKI in the enterprise." Xcert's technology was
selected by Network Associates because of its broad support of all industry
PKI standards, including x.509, PGP, LDAP, and PKCS #7, 10, and 11.

"Network Associates is committed to promoting broad interoperability and
open standards in the security industry," said Peter Watkins, general
manager of the Net Tools Secure division at Network Associates. "This
agreement makes it even easier for our customers to deploy scaleable,
standards-based, security applications that work together in concert to
actively respond to changing security threats."

"This technology license agreement expands Network Associates'
best-of-breed security offerings to include the industrial-strength PKI
necessary for conducting business-to-business electronic commerce and
communications," said Thomas Nolan, President and CEO of Xcert
International. "Network Associates customers will be able to broadly deploy
distributed security applications, regardless of whether or not they have a
general PKI solution. Because Xcert's technology supports all certificate
standards, Network Associates customers will also be able to interact
seamlessly with business partners who have disparate PKI solutions in use."

While other security application vendors have recently discussed plans to
integrate their products, none have addressed universal PKI support, an
essential element to making integrated security a secure and scaleable
reality for enterprise customers. As a result of this agreement, Network
Associates customers will be able to broadly deploy distributed security
applications such as remote VPN and client-side encryption across large
user populations. The new Net Tools PKI will also support more robust
certificate management for authenticated communications between integrated
Network Associates security applications. Through a concept known as
"Active Security", Network Associates is enabling its security products to
operate in concert, actively communicating events between applications and
adapting security policies of these applications for real-time active
response when critical security threats are detected. 

With headquarters in Santa Clara, California, Network Associates, Inc. is a
leading supplier of enterprise network security and management software.
Network Associates' Net Tools Secure and Net Tools Manager offer
best-of-breed, suite-based network security and management solutions. Net
Tools Secure and Net Tools Manager suites combine to create Net Tools,
which centralizes these point solutions within an easy-to-use integrated
systems management environment. For more information, Network Associates
can be reached at (408) 988-3832 or on the Internet at http://www.nai.com.

Based in Walnut Creek, California, Xcert International Inc. is the premier
developer of Public Key Infrastructure technology. Xcert's products provide
privacy and authenticity for conducting secure Internet business
transactions. Xcert develops, manufactures and distributes Certificate
Authority and public key infrastructure solutions that use secure directory
services to provide organizations and individuals with a ubiquitous and
secure method of communicating with each other over the Internet. Xcert
also licenses its underlying PKI technology to selected service providers
and third party developers worldwide. Xcert can be reached on the World
Wide Web at http://www.xcert.com. 

FOR MORE INFORMATION:

Ruby Qurashi, Tim Gage
Xcert International Inc.
925-274-9300 Ext .108
rubyq@xcert.com / timg@xcert.com

----------------------------------------------------------------------
XCERT-ANNOUNCE: Xcert Software Announcements Mailing List
to remove yourself from this mailing list, please send mail containing
"unsubscribe xcert-announce" in the body to majordomo@xcert.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 02:59:25 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: Math Forum - Ask Dr. Math
Message-ID: <36545A6A.85BCB07A@dev.tivoli.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

http://forum.swarthmore.edu/dr.math/problems/1isprime.html
-- 


    
--------------------------------------------------------------------
            The end of our exploring will be to arrive at where we
            started, and to know the place for the first time.

                                                 T.S. Eliot
                                    
            Tivoli Systems                       James F. Choate
            9442 Capital of Texas Hwy. N.        512-436-1062
            Austin, Tx. 78759                    jchoate@tivoli.com
    
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Title: Math Forum - Ask Dr. Math




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Why is 1 Not Considered Prime?


Date: 20 Mar 1995 12:22:37 -0500
From: ioostind@cln.etc.bc.ca (Ian Oostindie)
Subject: Why 1 is prime

        My friend, Roger Gillies told me he received some 
useful math information from you and gave me your e-mail 
address.  I thought of you when a grade six student stumped 
me with a classic.  Well, at least a classic in my mind.

        Just recently a grade six student asked me "Why is 1 
not considered prime?"  I tried to answer but as usual 
could not since I do not understand this either.  I thought 
it may lie in the fact that "we" don't use the true definition 
or we are interpreting it wrong.  A prime is normally 
described as a number that can be expressed by only one and 
itself.  We exclude all non-natural numbers from the set that 
we will be working on and then everything is fine except for 
when we work with 1.

        1 = 1 x 1.  That is, one equals 1 times itself and there 
is no other combination.

        Now to the grade six student in Faro Yukon, I said 
there may be a small print clause in the contract with the 
math gods that says you can only write it once since 1 also 
equals 1x1x1x1x...   This would not work for other primes 
such as two: 2 does not equal 1x2x2x2x...  Likewise, 3 does 
not equal 1x3x3x3x...

        Patterns are very important to mathematics, I further 
explained, and this is a pattern I see being broken.  I showed 
this in a slightly different way to the grade sixer but in 
essence the same.

        My question to you, Dr. Math, is what is the small print 
in the contract with the Math gods and how do we explain it 
to the grade six kids that are supposed to know it?

        Thank you very much for any consideration you make.






Date: 25 Mar 1995 16:21:45 -0500
From: Dr. Ken
Subject: Re: Why 1 is prime

Hello there!

Yes, you're definitely on the right track.  In fact, it's precisely 
because of "patterns that mathematicians don't like to break" 
that 1 is not defined as a prime.  Perhaps you have seen the 
theorem (even if you haven't, I'm sure you know it intuitively) 
that any positive integer has a unique factorization into primes.  
For instance, 4896 = 2^5 * 3^2 * 17, and this is the only possible 
way to factor 4896.  But what if we allow 1 in our list of prime 
factors?  Well, then we'd also get 1 * 2^5 * 3^2 * 17, and 
1^75 * 2^5 * 3^2 * 17, and so on.  So really, the flavor of the 
theorem is true only if you don't allow 1 in there.

So why didn't we just say something like "a prime factorization
is a factorization in which there are no factors of 1" or 
something?  Well, it turns out that if you look at some more 
number theory and you accept 1 as a prime number, you'd have 
all kinds of theorems that say things like "This is true for all 
prime numbers except 1" and stuff like that.  So rather than 
always having to exclude 1 every time we use prime numbers, 
we just say that 1 isn't prime, end of story.

Incidentally, if you want to call 1 something, here's what it is: 
it's called a "unit" in the integers (as is -1).  What that means is 
that if we completely restrict ourselves to the integers, we use 
the word "unit" for the numbers that have reciprocals (numbers 
that you can multiply by to get 1).  For instance, 2 isn't a unit, 
because you can't multiply it by anything else (remember, 1/2 
isn't in our universe right now) and get 1.  This is how we 
think about things in Abstract Algebra, something sixth graders 
won't need to worry about for a long time, but I thought I'd 
mention it.

-Ken "Dr." Math





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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ray Arachelian 
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 01:57:01 +0800
To: jim@acm.org
Subject: Re: Goldbach's Conjecture - a question about prime sums of odd numbers
In-Reply-To: <365448AE.D504F2D6@acm.org>
Message-ID: <365452E2.CE92ED6A@brainlink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Gillogly wrote:
> 
> Ray Arachelian wrote:
> > "Igor Chudov @ home" wrote:
> 
> > > Well, take 11, for example, it cannot be repsesented as a sum of different
> > > primes. It cannot, pure and simple.
> 
> > Bullshit: 7+5+(-1)=11.  Last I heard, negative numbers weren't excluded from
> > being primes.  7 is different from 5, -1 is different from 7 and from 5.
> 
> If this is boiling down to a definition of primes, I'll haul out my Hardy &
> Wright, page 2:
> 
>     A number p is said to be prime if (i) p > 1, (ii) p has no positive
>     divisors except 1 and p.  ...  It is important to observe that 1 is not
>     reckoned as a prime.
> 
> My number theory class at college (admittedly that was three decades ago)
> also started the prime series at 2 and went up from there.  The term
> "odd primes" always meant 3 and above, not 1 and above.

Well, I suppose negative numbers can't be included because 1 can't be included:
1*1*1*1=1 and the idea is that a prime can only have itself and 1 as factors,
where 1 can be factored by itself over and over to an infinite number of 1's,
and by that definition you can exclude -1 since -1=(-1*1*-1*1), and so if
we take -5 and factor it to -5 and 1 it's good, but it can also be factored
to -1 and 5.  IMHO 1 and -1 being shunned in this way is a bit silly, but
whatever... :^)  (Same applies to zero since 0=0*0*0*0*0, but zero has the
built in difference of that it can't be divided by itself at all.)

So I guess I have to take back 7+5+(-1) and go with Jim's 1+3+7, but fuck,
that won't work either since 1 isn't a prime...  So I guess Igor is right on
this one.  Sorry Jim... 

Any other ideas on 11?


=====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos==============
.+.^.+.|       Sunder       |Prying open my 3rd eye.  So good to see |./|\.
..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were      |/\|/\
<--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run  |\/|\/
../|\..| "A toast to Odin,  |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/.
.+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were....            |.....
======================= http://www.sundernet.com ==========================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 03:10:28 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Math Forum - Ask Dr. Math (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811191827.MAA04861@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 11:50:34 -0600
> Subject: Math Forum - Ask Dr. Math

> http://forum.swarthmore.edu/dr.math/problems/1isprime.html

> 

> math gods that says you can only write it once since 1 also 
> equals 1x1x1x1x...   This would not work for other primes 
> such as two: 2 does not equal 1x2x2x2x...  Likewise, 3 does 
> not equal 1x3x3x3x...

Whether the 1 is there or not is irrelevant,

3x3x3x3... is not 3 in the first place.

3x1x1x1x1.... IS 3.

>         Patterns are very important to mathematics, I further 
> explained, and this is a pattern I see being broken.

> Date: 25 Mar 1995 16:21:45 -0500
> From: Dr. Ken
> Subject: Re: Why 1 is prime

> Yes, you're definitely on the right track.  In fact, it's precisely 
> because of "patterns that mathematicians don't like to break" 
> that 1 is not defined as a prime.  Perhaps you have seen the 
> theorem (even if you haven't, I'm sure you know it intuitively) 
> that any positive integer has a unique factorization into primes.  
> For instance, 4896 = 2^5 * 3^2 * 17, and this is the only possible 
> way to factor 4896.  But what if we allow 1 in our list of prime 
> factors?  Well, then we'd also get 1 * 2^5 * 3^2 * 17, and 
> 1^75 * 2^5 * 3^2 * 17, and so on.  So really, the flavor of the 
> theorem is true only if you don't allow 1 in there.

This definition of a prime has one serious drawback.

It ignores the fundamental identity theorem of arithmatic:

 1 * n = n

So, as a result we're in the interesting and potentialy untenable
situation of defining a identity theorem, base our math on it, and then
come along one day and say it doesn't apply anymore WITHOUT making any
other changes to the structure of the theories....

This is VERY BAD science/math.



    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Steve Schear 
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 05:08:27 +0800
To: "Albert P. Franco, II" 
Subject: Re: SIGH... NOT!! THC tainted oranges
In-Reply-To: <199811132049.OAA05427@manifold.algebra.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>Nobody that has been on this list very long could have been duped...We all
>know that some group of MIB types would have swooped down on the guy, and
>he would have been just another heart attack statistic...

I raised a similar thread last year. I caused quite a bit of comment. Since
then I've discussed the possibility of employing a common yeast or other
organism to allow individuals to create their own home pharmacies with
friends and acquintances in this sector. Their opinions vary but all
assured me that desktop genetic engineering and production capabilities are
likely no more than 10 years away and that fed measures to prevent this
will likely be singularly ineffective.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 03:12:33 +0800
To: ace@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Advanced Computer Experimentation)
Subject: Anyone know where to get EURISKO?
Message-ID: <199811191834.MAA05016@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Hi,

Anyone got a clue on where to get a copy of EURISKO (language isn't
important since I want to convert it to Perl)?

I'm playing with some number theory stuff and since EURISKO was pretty good
at I'd be interested in seein the specifics of Lenet's approach. All I've
been able to find so far are very general descriptions in the various AI
sites.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ray Arachelian 
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 02:17:24 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: <365456C4.5D18C1C6@brainlink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate wrote:
> 
> Forwarded message:
> 
> > Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 12:18:26 -0500
> > From: Ray Arachelian 
> > Subject: Re: Goldbach's Conjecture - a question about prime sums of odd numbers
> 
> > So I guess I have to take back 7+5+(-1) and go with Jim's 1+3+7, but fuck,
> > that won't work either since 1 isn't a prime...  So I guess Igor is right on
> > this one.  Sorry Jim...
> 
> A prime is defined as *ANY* number (note the definition doesn't mention
> sign or magnitude nor does it exclude any numbers a priori) that has no
> multiplicative factors other than itself and 1.
> 
> 1 * 1 = 1 so it is clearly prime.
> 
> Now, if a particular branch of number theory wants to extend it and make it
> only numbers >=2 that is fine, I'm not working in that branch anyway.

Actually the issue is 1=1*1, 1=1*1*1 ... 1=1^n.  If 1 is prime, then -1 must
be prime since -1=1^n where n is odd and 1=1^n where any n is used.  The fact
that 1 can be factored from itself recursively is the issue.

(If the above weren't true, then -1 could be prime without affecting whether
-3's lack of primality: -3=-1*3 and -3=1*-3.)

(See: http://forum.swarthmore.edu/dr.math/problems/1isprime.html )


-- 

=====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos==============
.+.^.+.|       Sunder       |Prying open my 3rd eye.  So good to see |./|\.
..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were      |/\|/\
<--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run  |\/|\/
../|\..| "A toast to Odin,  |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/.
.+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were....            |.....
======================= http://www.sundernet.com ==========================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ethena@usa.net
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 04:45:56 +0800
To: czareena@hotmail.com
Subject: Fwd: Re: Snowball fight '98 - '99
Message-ID: <19981119194241.6558.qmail@www0r.netaddress.usa.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




  > GOTCHA!!! 
  > > \ | / 
  > > \\ \ | | / // 
  > > \\\ \\ // /// 
  > > \\\ ####### /// 
  > > \\## ##// 
  > > -- ## ## -- 
  > > -- ## squish!! ## -- 
  > > //## ##\\ 
  > > // ### ### \\ 
  > > /// ####### \\\ 
  > > /// // \\ \\\ 
  > > // / | | \ \\ 
  > > / | \ 
  > > 
  > > You have just been hit with a snow ball! 
  > > > It's the start of..... 
  > > Snow Ball Fight '98/'99!!!! 
  > > 
  > > One rule to this game.... 
  > > You can't hit someone who has already hit you! 
  > > Now...go out there and hit as many people 
  > > as you can before they get you!! 
  > 

____________________________________________________________________
Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Tony" 
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 04:47:28 +0800
To: 
Subject: Fw:  Fwd: Re: Snowball fight '98 - '99
Message-ID: <000401be13f5$20be24c0$71505089@wynnd.hqisec.army.mil>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>  > GOTCHA!!! 
>  > > \ | / 
>  > > \\ \ | | / // 
>  > > \\\ \\ // /// 
>  > > \\\ ####### /// 
>  > > \\## ##// 
>  > > -- ## ## -- 
>  > > -- ## squish!! ## -- 
>  > > //## ##\\ 
>  > > // ### ### \\ 
>  > > /// ####### \\\ 
>  > > /// // \\ \\\ 
>  > > // / | | \ \\ 
>  > > / | \ 
>  > > 
>  > > You have just been hit with a snow ball! 
>  > > > It's the start of..... 
>  > > Snow Ball Fight '98/'99!!!! 
>  > > 
>  > > One rule to this game.... 
>  > > You can't hit someone who has already hit you! 
>  > > Now...go out there and hit as many people 
>  > > as you can before they get you!! 
>  > 
>
>____________________________________________________________________
>Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1
>




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ray Arachelian 
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 02:16:43 +0800
To: Ray Arachelian 
Message-ID: <36545A30.EFE1ABCF@brainlink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Ray Arachelian wrote:

> Actually the issue is 1=1*1, 1=1*1*1 ... 1=1^n.  If 1 is prime, then -1 must
> be prime since -1=1^n where n is odd and 1=1^n where any n is used.  The fact
> that 1 can be factored from itself recursively is the issue.

Duh! I must not have had enough caffeine this morning.  Above should 
say -1=-1^n where N is odd.
 

-- 

=====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos==============
.+.^.+.|       Sunder       |Prying open my 3rd eye.  So good to see |./|\.
..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were      |/\|/\
<--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run  |\/|\/
../|\..| "A toast to Odin,  |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/.
.+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were....            |.....
======================= http://www.sundernet.com ==========================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: mgraffam@idsi.net
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 03:21:34 +0800
To: holist 
Subject: Re: your mail
In-Reply-To: <199811191115.DAA14438@toad.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Thu, 19 Nov 1998, holist wrote:

> I understand that there may be other reasons why it is unwise to post
> requests for warez on these lists, but moral outrage at the thought of
> software piracy was not one I expected to read here.

I for one am not a tremendous fan of copyright as applied to software
today. I support the theory .. as a programmer I can appreciate the
effort that goes into software development and I don't wish to see
such developers harmed by piracy. 

OTOH, the consumer has a vested interest in sampling software before he
pays for it. I wouldn't buy a car if I wasn't allowed to test drive it
first. If someone offered me a car that I could not test drive, and
that I could not return if it is defective, I certainly wouldn't buy
the thing. As a consumer it is a bad move, though it certainly helps
the car manufacturers (they can make a defective product with no worries).

A prime example of this is Win98 .. a friend of mine was running win95 
happily and smoothly (well, as smooth as win95 gets). He upgraded to 98.
It crashed several times during the install procedure, and make his
win95 set up unusable in the process. 

He can't return his win98 upgrade and get his money back (due to
copyright), and he wasn't allowed to test it all out before spending
the cash. In a word, he is screwed.

We can't ignore the programmer's need to get paid and we can't ignore
the consumer's need to a fair shake.

We need to find a common ground.

Now, for small $40 word processors, a sampling system is probably not
worth the trouble. But for expensive or important packages (like OS's)
sampling the software first is a good thing. 

> Especially as I hear nobody complaining about the advertisement for
> pornography that I receive every two days, regular as clockwork, from the
> cypherpunks list, not to mention the great deal of other entirely useless,
> automatically generated advertising.

That is spam. Cypherpunks is an open list (any messages sent in are 
distributed freely). 

Why not find a nice free web-based email service with mail filtering?
Filter the porn out before you even get the mail forwarded to your,
or before you read it over the web or POP or whatever.

Michael J. Graffam (mgraffam@idsi.net)
"Let your life be a counter-friction to stop the machine."
			Henry David Thoreau "Civil Disobedience"




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Steve Schear 
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 07:32:50 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: learn computer forensics with the boys from the US Treasury
In-Reply-To: <199811191740.SAA22354@replay.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I see that the Mac and various Unix varients are not well represented in
these courses...

--Steve






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 04:32:55 +0800
To: ravage@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Subject: Re: Goldbach's Conjecture - a question about prime sums of odd (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199811191719.LAB04034@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <199811191948.NAA07880@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Jim Choate wrote:
> 
> 
> Forwarded message:
> 
> > Subject: Re: Goldbach's Conjecture - a question about prime sums of odd
> > Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 10:53:50 -0600 (CST)
> > From: ichudov@Algebra.Com (Igor Chudov @ home)
> 
> > I have no idea where you heard it, but primes are numbers greater than 1,
> > by definition.
> 
> Actualy a prime is any number which has no multiplicitave factors other than
> itself and 1.
> 
> Does that mean negatives can't be prime numbers?
> 
> So, -3 breaks down to:
> 
> -3 * 1 = -3; 3 * -1 would be another set of factors so negatives can't be
> primes in the strictest sense.

Negatives are not primes by definition.

	- Igor.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 04:41:00 +0800
To: sunder@brainlink.com (Ray Arachelian)
Subject: Re: Goldbach's Conjecture - a question about prime sums of odd numbers
In-Reply-To: <365456C4.5D18C1C6@brainlink.com>
Message-ID: <199811191950.NAA07904@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Ray Arachelian wrote:
> Jim Choate wrote:
> > Forwarded message:
> > > Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 12:18:26 -0500
> > > From: Ray Arachelian 
> > > Subject: Re: Goldbach's Conjecture - a question about prime sums of odd numbers
> > 
> > > So I guess I have to take back 7+5+(-1) and go with Jim's 1+3+7, but fuck,
> > > that won't work either since 1 isn't a prime...  So I guess Igor is right on
> > > this one.  Sorry Jim...
> > 
> > A prime is defined as *ANY* number (note the definition doesn't mention
> > sign or magnitude nor does it exclude any numbers a priori) that has no
> > multiplicative factors other than itself and 1.
> > 
> > 1 * 1 = 1 so it is clearly prime.
> > 
> > Now, if a particular branch of number theory wants to extend it and make it
> > only numbers >=2 that is fine, I'm not working in that branch anyway.
> 
> Actually the issue is 1=1*1, 1=1*1*1 ... 1=1^n.  If 1 is prime, then -1 must
> be prime since -1=1^n where n is odd and 1=1^n where any n is used.  The fact
> that 1 can be factored from itself recursively is the issue.

People, please open ANY math book and see the definition for yourselves.

1 is not a prime by definition. Not because of any other reason.

Besides, -1=1^n is just not true for any n.

igor

> (If the above weren't true, then -1 could be prime without affecting whether
> -3's lack of primality: -3=-1*3 and -3=1*-3.)
> 
> (See: http://forum.swarthmore.edu/dr.math/problems/1isprime.html )
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> =====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos==============
> .+.^.+.|       Sunder       |Prying open my 3rd eye.  So good to see |./|\.
> ..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were      |/\|/\
> <--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run  |\/|\/
> ../|\..| "A toast to Odin,  |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/.
> .+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were....            |.....
> ======================= http://www.sundernet.com ==========================
> 



	- Igor.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 04:41:38 +0800
To: ravage@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Subject: Re: Math Forum - Ask Dr. Math (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199811191827.MAA04861@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <199811191953.NAA07957@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Jim Choate wrote:
> 
> 
> Forwarded message:
> 
> > Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 11:50:34 -0600
> > Subject: Math Forum - Ask Dr. Math
> 
> > http://forum.swarthmore.edu/dr.math/problems/1isprime.html
> 
> > 
> 
> > math gods that says you can only write it once since 1 also 
> > equals 1x1x1x1x...   This would not work for other primes 
> > such as two: 2 does not equal 1x2x2x2x...  Likewise, 3 does 
> > not equal 1x3x3x3x...
> 
> Whether the 1 is there or not is irrelevant,
> 
> 3x3x3x3... is not 3 in the first place.
> 
> 3x1x1x1x1.... IS 3.
> 
> >         Patterns are very important to mathematics, I further 
> > explained, and this is a pattern I see being broken.
> 
> > Date: 25 Mar 1995 16:21:45 -0500
> > From: Dr. Ken
> > Subject: Re: Why 1 is prime
> 
> > Yes, you're definitely on the right track.  In fact, it's precisely 
> > because of "patterns that mathematicians don't like to break" 
> > that 1 is not defined as a prime.  Perhaps you have seen the 
> > theorem (even if you haven't, I'm sure you know it intuitively) 
> > that any positive integer has a unique factorization into primes.  
> > For instance, 4896 = 2^5 * 3^2 * 17, and this is the only possible 
> > way to factor 4896.  But what if we allow 1 in our list of prime 
> > factors?  Well, then we'd also get 1 * 2^5 * 3^2 * 17, and 
> > 1^75 * 2^5 * 3^2 * 17, and so on.  So really, the flavor of the 
> > theorem is true only if you don't allow 1 in there.
> 
> This definition of a prime has one serious drawback.
> 
> It ignores the fundamental identity theorem of arithmatic:
> 
>  1 * n = n

it is not a theorem, it is a part of the definition of multiplication.

It is, in truth, arithmetics.

igor

> So, as a result we're in the interesting and potentialy untenable
> situation of defining a identity theorem, base our math on it, and then
> come along one day and say it doesn't apply anymore WITHOUT making any
> other changes to the structure of the theories....
> 
> This is VERY BAD science/math.
> 
> 
> 
>     ____________________________________________________________________
>  
>             Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
>             the right answers.
> 
>                                         Scully (X-Files)
> 
>        The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
>        Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
>        www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
>                            -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
>     --------------------------------------------------------------------
> 



	- Igor.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 05:32:14 +0800
To: nobody@nowhere.to (Anonymous)
Subject: Re: simple socket forwarder
In-Reply-To: <4a450e23d08fc272ab3f6260ccf0edcd@anonymous>
Message-ID: <199811192049.OAA08505@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Anonymous wrote:
> 
> Does anyone have a simple packet forwarder to run
> on a unix system? I want to set up a daemon on an
> account to just redirect traffic from a particular port
> to another host for some basic anonymity, but I don't
> have experience doing socket coding, nor a book.
> 

It seems that what you need is called a proxy server. 

There was a perl script floating around that worked as a proxy server.

If you do it for web accesses, consider using Crowd, a distributed
network of anonymizing proxy servers.

	- Igor.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 05:39:26 +0800
To: schear@lvcm.com (Steve Schear)
Subject: Re: SIGH... NOT!! THC tainted oranges
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199811192052.OAA08530@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



I would certainly appreciate pot yeast.

Yeast generally is a very tasty thing, and pot yeast will be truly yummy.

You could cook pot bread, pancakes, etc.

igor

Steve Schear wrote:
> 
> 
> >Nobody that has been on this list very long could have been duped...We all
> >know that some group of MIB types would have swooped down on the guy, and
> >he would have been just another heart attack statistic...
> 
> I raised a similar thread last year. I caused quite a bit of comment. Since
> then I've discussed the possibility of employing a common yeast or other
> organism to allow individuals to create their own home pharmacies with
> friends and acquintances in this sector. Their opinions vary but all
> assured me that desktop genetic engineering and production capabilities are
> likely no more than 10 years away and that fed measures to prevent this
> will likely be singularly ineffective.
> 
> 
> 



	- Igor.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Richard.Bragg@ssa.co.uk
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 00:03:12 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: manners
Message-ID: <802566C1.00536A3E.00@seunt002e.ssa.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



There are ways and means.  If someone requests software that is NOT free
then a simple NO will surfice.  A list of contacts to purchase would aid
income for the producer.
An additional approach would be to suggest alternatives that are free.

There is never any call to be rude.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 06:14:44 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Math Forum - Ask Dr. Math (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811192129.PAA06344@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Subject: Re: Math Forum - Ask Dr. Math (fwd) 
> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 98 10:48:53 -0800
> From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 

> jim, don't be a bonehead.
> what would it gain you if one defined 1 as prime?!?!?
> "very bad science/math"?? yeah, coming from you!!

Quite sendin this shit to my private email, send it to the list.

It gains a consistency at the axiomatic level that isn't there now.

If it won't do anything to the math you shouldn't object to adding it
(course you'll have to add 'applies to all primes except 1' to a lot of
theorems.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Jean-Francois Avon" 
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 05:36:29 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks" 
Subject: Re: Search and Seizure abuse...
Message-ID: <199811192050.PAA01218@cti06.citenet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Thu, 19 Nov 1998 10:22:14 -0800, Steve Schear wrote:

NOTE: I AM NOT ON CYPHERPUNKS. PLEASE Cc ME DIRECTLY.

>>We're out of luck here!  Owning explosive is verboten!
>>And real soon, passing gaz with a high content of methane will be an
>>indictable offence!  :-)
>
>Certainly you're not constraining a response to an illegal use of force to
>legal means ;-)

Well, maybe, maybe not.  It depends.  No use of becoming a martyr if nobody 
cares...  Blowing a SWAT team would be just the right thing to get forever 
in the klink, while blowing up the story over the net might blow-up the 
klinks themselves...  It is all a question of return on investment, and what 
price you can afford.  Happily enough, we now have strong encryption and the 
net.  There is much less need to spill blood in order to disseminate 
information.

>>Everything you own is a privilege given to you by the Ruler.  Didn't you 
>>know that komrade?
>
>Rights are what you insist you have and can make stick through any means at
>your disposal.

If the use of force was optimal, historically, we'd have been living in 
paradize since the first fight of all time happened.  Only, it doesn't work 
that way...

> Our colonial revolutionaries certainly didn't limit the
>scope of their rights by what King George allowed.

I wholeheartedly agree, but neither did they live in the same context.  
Beside, it was the only way they could act.  Nowadays, we have the phone and 
the net.  But I agree that without threath of physical action, no govt 
(itself based ultimately on physical threath) will ever stop doing just as 
it pleases him.  Only, you don't have to come up with big house blow-up 
things.  Only the menace of physical resistance and of the dissemination of 
information suffice.  The govt is fed by the voluntary actions of the 
citizenry.  The day large groups decide to stop paying taxes, the govt will 
simply starve and grind to a halt.

Ciao

jfa




Jean-Francois Avon, B.Sc. Physics, Montreal, Canada
  DePompadour, Société d'Importation Ltée
     Limoges fine porcelain and french crystal
  JFA Technologies, R&D physicists & engineers
     Instrumentation & control, LabView programming
PGP keys: http://bs.mit.edu:8001/pks-toplev.html
PGP ID:0xC58ADD0D:529645E8205A8A5E F87CC86FAEFEF891 
PGP ID:0x5B51964D:152ACCBCD4A481B0 254011193237822C
PGP ID:0x6CBA71F7:485888E9FD68415A2945 ACCB366D38486CBA71F7





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 09:35:02 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Search and Seizure abuse...
In-Reply-To: <199811192050.PAA01218@cti06.citenet.net>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 12:46 PM -0800 11/19/98, Jean-Francois Avon wrote:
>
>NOTE: I AM NOT ON CYPHERPUNKS. PLEASE Cc ME DIRECTLY.
>

Sorry, I won't do this.

Anyone who wants to start a discussion on a mailing list SHOULD BE ON THAT
MAILING LIST!

I have no animosity toward Jean-Francois Avon, but it seems to me he has a
couple of times subscribed, unsubscribed, posted blind to the list, posted
Canadian gun issues to the list, said he doesn't read the Cypherpunks list
anymore, etc.

Jeesh.

I know it's de rigeur to trash the CP list these days, as in "I no longer
have time to wade through the trash on the Cypherpunks list,"  but people
who don't have time to read the list should not then post to it.

Jeesh.

--Tim May

Common Y2K line: "I'm not preparing, but I know where _you_ live."
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 06:47:32 +0800
To: nobody@sind.hyperreal.art.pl (HyperReal-Anon)
Subject: Re: simple socket forwarder
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199811192204.QAA09232@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



HyperReal-Anon wrote:
> ichudov@Algebra.Com (Igor Chudov @ home) wrote:
> >Anonymous wrote:
> >>
> >> Does anyone have a simple packet forwarder to run
> >> on a unix system? I want to set up a daemon on an
> >> account to just redirect traffic from a particular port
> >> to another host for some basic anonymity, but I don't
> >> have experience doing socket coding, nor a book.
> >
> >It seems that what you need is called a proxy server.
> >There was a perl script floating around that worked as a proxy server.
> >If you do it for web accesses, consider using Crowd, a distributed
> >network of anonymizing proxy servers.
> 
> I want to use it as a proxy for NNTP.
> 

Use that perl script or some other proxy server then.

	- Igor.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Iain Collins" 
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 01:14:03 +0800
To: 
Subject: RE: manners
In-Reply-To: <802566C1.00536A3E.00@seunt002e.ssa.co.uk>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-cypherpunks@toad.com [mailto:owner-cypherpunks@toad.com]On
> Behalf Of Richard.Bragg@ssa.co.uk
> Sent: 19 November 1998 15:15
> To: cypherpunks@toad.com
> Subject: manners
>
>
> There are ways and means.  If someone requests software that is NOT free
> then a simple NO will surfice.  A list of contacts to purchase would aid
> income for the producer.
> An additional approach would be to suggest alternatives that are free.
>
> There is never any call to be rude.

It is _rude_ to ask for stolen goods - particularly when implicating
everyone on this list as an accessory to intent to commit piracy - who does
not report this luser to the authorities in the - process.

It is also rude to send inappropriate posts to this mailing list. This is
the cypherpunks mailing list - Not an IRC or hotline channel. Warez requests
are wholly inappropriate for this list, please read the FAQ!


The suggestion to seek free alternatives is well grounded, although I'd add
that they would more appropriately be sent directly to the poster (with a
polite note referring him to the FAQ).


Regards,

Iain Collins, 






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 08:09:11 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: VSNL Censors Indian Internet Sites. (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811192330.RAA06852@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 04:20:43 +0000
> From: Vipul Ved Prakash 
> Subject: VSNL Censors Indian Internet Sites.

> ( My 19th nov. post to cypherpunks@cyberpass.net never showed up on 
>   the list, so I reposting.  Thanks. ) 
> 
> 
>    17 November, 1998
>    FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
>    Contact: Vipul Ved Prakash, 2233328. 
>    
> 
>    VSNL Censors Indian Internet Sites

The SSZ list got it. I even forwarded it to a friend who is working on an
Indian telco/telcom project.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:22:26 +0800
To: "Jean-Francois Avon" 
Subject: Re: Search and Seizure abuse...
In-Reply-To: <199811200118.UAA09201@cti06.citenet.net>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



(Apparently Bob H., juding from the cc: list, forwarded my message to
Jean-Francois. I am responding to Jean-Francois' comments, but also am
copying the Cypherpunks list.)


At 5:15 PM -0800 11/19/98, Jean-Francois Avon wrote:
>On Thu, 19 Nov 1998 19:40:47 -0500, Robert Hettinga wrote:
>
>>:-).
>>
>>Why don't you just subscribe to cypherpunks and get it over with?
>>
>>Cheers,
>>Bob
>
>Because of practical time constraints.  I am quite active on the firearms
>front and if I start getting CPunks stuff, I'll take forever,
>notwithstanding what TM said on the topic in 1995 about how little time it
>actually take to screen and process the list volume.

Yeah, and your "news" items on Canadian gun laws, along with a dozen other
people bombarding the CP list with "urgent news," are adding to the
clutter. And to the lack of serious discussion.

Too many lists, especially, I am sad to say, uncensored lists, are being
bombarded by news items. The fact is, there are far, far better ways  to
get all the news one wants. I refer to Yahoo, Excite, Lycos, Wired,
Dejanews, and at least a dozen other such general sites. Not to mention
various and sundry sites for news magazines and networks.

Some people, even some people actually subscribed to the CP list, routinely
bounce a dozen news messages at a time to the CP list. One thing I've taken
to doing is to use the "Option-Click" command in Eudora to group _all_ of
the messages from one author together and highlight them...then I delete
them all at one time.

(So, Detweiler, now you know why I may not be responding to your non-news
articles...I've been forced to delete the dozens of "vznuri" articles from
"Ignition point" and other such news spammers.)




>>Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 16:02:23 -0800
>>To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
>>From: Tim May 
>
>>At 12:46 PM -0800 11/19/98, Jean-Francois Avon wrote:
>>>
>>>NOTE: I AM NOT ON CYPHERPUNKS. PLEASE Cc ME DIRECTLY.
>>>
>>
>>Sorry, I won't do this.
>>
>>Anyone who wants to start a discussion on a mailing list SHOULD BE ON THAT
>>MAILING LIST!
>
>But, Tim, I have no intention on starting a discussion, I just spam CPunks
>with information pertaining to freedom and, to some extent, ITAR.  Consider
>me as a news service...  :-)

Your stuff is often days behind what we've already seen, notwithstanding
the fact that this list is not a news dump site.

(It's especially ironic when one of the news spammers forwards an article
written by Declan McCullagh. Declan writes it, the Web sites carry it,
"ignition point" newsspams it to subscribers, then some subscriber to
"ignition point" who isn't bothering to read the list forwards it to the CP
list. Sometimes with a clueless "Hey, thought you guys might be interested
in this.")




>I refrain to post personnal opinions and simply forward topics that are
>freedom-related.  Since crypto and firearms are very close cousins indeed, I
>think that it might be on topic.  You will note that whenever I post on the
>CFD, I use a crypto-flavored *.sig file.  Come on guys, stop nitpicking!
>And among all of CPunks, especially you, Tim May!

If you can't do your own analysis, you have no business blindly spamming
lists you are not even subscribed to.



--Tim May

Common Y2K line: "I'm not preparing, but I know where _you_ live."
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:24:48 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: manners and piracy
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 4:59 PM -0800 11/19/98, Bernardo B. Terrado wrote:

>
>It is the duty of all to say "Hey! respect intellectual property!"

If you send me a check for $350 I will agree to issue the statement "Hey!
respect intellectual property!"

But it is by no means a duty of anyone to make any kind of political statement.

Final hint: Cypherpunks don't respond well to "argument ad shame on 'em."
That is, to arguments along the lines of "It is the duty of all to protect
X." Or to condemn Y. Or to support Z.

--Tim May

Common Y2K line: "I'm not preparing, but I know where _you_ live."
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Eric Cordian 
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 08:43:09 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: simple socket forwarder
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199811200013.SAA03517@wire.insync.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Someone expresses a software need: 

> >> Does anyone have a simple packet forwarder to run
> >> on a unix system? I want to set up a daemon on an
> >> account to just redirect traffic from a particular port
> >> to another host for some basic anonymity, but I don't
> >> have experience doing socket coding, nor a book.

The quick and dirty solution here is to log into localhost
with ssh and forward the port.  You can screen the ssh, detach
it, and forget about it.  

For instance, if I want to forward connects on port 9999 on
unix.com to the NNTP port on news.naughty.net, I simply say

         screen ssh -R 9999:news.naughty.net:119 localhost

Then type the password to the account you are running it on, 
and detach it.  It will live until the next reboot, happily
forwarding connects to the appropriate destination.

You can also do this with a bounce, or with some of the Hax0r 
socket utilities, but this is the quickest solution that's 
probably already there. 

-- 
Sponsor the DES Analytic Crack Project
http://www.cyberspace.org/~enoch/crakfaq.html




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mok-Kong Shen 
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 01:44:05 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: Goldbach's Conjecture - a question about prime sums of odd (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199811191607.KAA03257@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <36545295.436F8BB6@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Goldbach's conjecture is claimed to have been proved by Benschop. See

 http://www.ams.org/preprints/11/199805/199805-11-001/199805-11-001.html

M. K. Shen




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 09:00:00 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Goldbach's Conjecture
Message-ID: <199811200034.SAA07327@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



If we go with the flow and exclude 1 (so we don't have to rewrite all our
theorems) and assume that all even numbers greater than 2 can be represented
as a sum of two prime factors we have a problem...

How does one sum 4?

2 + 2?

We certainly can't use 3 + 1. If we allow repetition *and* the number 2 as a
prime then all even numbers can be written as a string of 2's summed
appropriately.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 02:32:55 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: learn computer forensics with the boys from the US Treasury
Message-ID: <199811191740.SAA22354@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




COURSE TITLE: Computer Encryption/Decryption

LENGTH OF PRESENTATION: 

Lecture  Laboratory  Practical Exercise  Total  
2:00  2:00  2:00  6:00  

 DESCRIPTION:

Advancing computer technology, coupled with a growing user awareness of
privacy and security issues, has resulted in the widespread use of program,
electronic mail, and data file encryption techniques. Today seemingly all
sophisticated applications have their own optional encryption schemes
including WordPerfect, Word, Lotus, Excel, and a host of others. The
computer investigator can expect to encounter encrypted (unreadable) files
when examining seized computer evidence. This course demonstrates software
tools which will enable the student to decreypt many different files, and
examines features of the most commonly used encryption/decryption tool used
today: PGP.

http://www.ustreas.gov/fletc/ffi/scers.htm





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 09:20:35 +0800
To: users@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (SSZ User Mail List)
Subject: Digital cockroaches, 5 IP's per body by 2000 [CNN]
Message-ID: <199811200055.SAA07410@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> X-within-URL: http://www.cnn.com/TECH/computing/9811/19/cockroach.cdx.idg/

>    (IDG) -- LAS VEGAS - People think they're wired now, but they haven't
>    seen anything yet. Just wait until the world is populated with silicon
>    cockroaches - wireless devices that can communicate with each other
>    and the Internet, said John Sidgmore, CEO of MCI WorldCom, in his
>    keynote at Comdex/Fall '98.

[text deleted]

>    "Everyone will have an average of five IP objects on their body by
>    2000," he predicted. Eventually there will even be digital eye glasses
>    with voice control that would offer all sorts of information to the
>    wearer. "Sony is working on the technology, so it'll happen. It'll
>    cost $20." MORE COMDEX NEWS [INLINE]  IDG.net home page IDG.net's

[text deleted]

>    "Industry explosions like this are extremely, exceedingly rare,"
>    Sidgmore said. "I think 40, 50 years from today people will look back
>    and say this was the Golden Age of Communications."

[text deleted]


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:02:09 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: learn computer forensics with the boys from the US Treasury
In-Reply-To: <199811191740.SAA22354@replay.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 4:45 PM -0500 11/19/98, Steve Schear wrote:
>I see that the Mac and various Unix varients are not well represented in
>these courses...

	That could be because cops only catch the Dumb Ones, which means
the ones using Windows.
--
petro@playboy.com----for work related issues. I don't speak for Playboy.
petro@bounty.org-----for everthing else.      They wouldn't like that.
                                              They REALLY
Economic speech IS political speech.          wouldn't like that.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Steve Schear 
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 12:14:37 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Piracy and cypherpunks
In-Reply-To: <36543A3F.37AC99B@acm.org>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I tried to take a crack at it in Laissez Faire City Times
http://www.zolatimes.com/V2.16/pageone.html

Tim May wrote:
>At 7:33 AM -0800 11/19/98, Jim Gillogly wrote:
>-- all issues of intellectual property are also issues of _enforceability_.
>To the extent anonymous remailers, information markets, regulatory
>arbitrage, systems like "BlackNet" ("BlackeBay," anyone?), and other crypto
>anarchy technologies proliferate, enforcement of any particular nation's
>intellectual property laws will become problematic.
>
>
>-- finally, the U.S. position on patentability and copyrightability of
>software and words is not the only position one may find morally
>supportable. We do not, for example, allow "ideas" to be patented or
>copyrighted (I don't mean "expressions of ideas," as in patents, or
>"precise words," as in copyrights. Rather, I mean that we do not allow a
>person to "own" an idea. To imagine the alternative, cf. Galambos.)
>
>
>Long term, I expect current notions about intellectual property will have
>to change.
>
>I'm a big believer in "technological determinism." For example, in my own
>view (which I have debated with some well known cyberspace lawyers over the
>years), the widespread deployment of video cassette recorders (VCRs)
>necessarily changed the intellectual property laws. The Supreme Court, in
>Disney v. Sony, uttered a bunch of stuff about time-shifting, blah blah,
>but the real reason, I think, boiled down to this:
>
>"VCRs have become widespread. If people tape shows in their own homes, even
>violating copyrighted material, there is no way law enforcement can stop
>them short of instituting a police state and doing random spot checks. The
>horse is out of the barn, the genie is out of the bottle. The law has to
>change. But rather than admit that copyright is no longer practically
>enforceable, we have to couch our decision in terms of "time-shifting" and
>other such fig leaves."
>
>So, too, will anonymous remailers, black pipes, information markets,
>regulatory arbitrage, and suchlike change the nature of intellectual
>property.
>
>What form these changes will take, I don't know.
>
>--Tim May






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 07:54:48 +0800
To: Matthew James Gering 
Subject: RE: NSA Threatens To "OUT" Republicans Over Hubbell Investigation
In-Reply-To: <5F152E6E8E6FD21195DF00104B2425AD02B277@yarrowbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981119201514.00b60bd0@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 08:57 PM 11/9/98 -0800, Matthew James Gering wrote:
>Yes, I assumed as much. But it is electronic circuits that are EMP/nuclear
>hardened, not the "encryption technology."  ......
>, encryption is mathematics, period. National
>security fearmongering to spite Clinton does not help the encryption
>awareness/freedom campaign.

Encryption is NOT just "mathematics, period".  It's mathematics,
plus operations, password management, key distribution,
keeping track of who's allowed to see what, 
plus hardware and operating systems to run the mathematics on,
and unless you're running it in wetware, it's also
computer security to protect the hardware and operating systems.
And it's black operations to go out and steal the other guys'
hardware and keys and yellow-sticky-notes and crack their OSs.

In some contexts, especially real people's contexts,
your PC may be a fine place to run the encryption,
but in an NSA / DoD context, especially when there's a war on,
the safest way to manage many of these things is to use
dedicated tamper-resistant hardware with the users on one side
and the communication network on the other, where
you don't have to worry about the user virusing their PC
or using their girlfriend's name as the new password every other week,
because it's in a black box that just works (or just works
if you have the right key token and the right PIN.)

EMP hardening has the pleasant side effect that it generally
provides TEMPEST quieting/shielding as well.

Also, in military environments, using special hardware instead of
crypto software running on vanilla PCs is that rampant theft
_is_ a problem, but that supply sergeant who'd be happy to 
requisition that PC for use in more remunerative environments
isn't going to steal and sell the crypto bump-in-the-wire box;
it's bad enough to lose any classified or sensitive information
that was on the PC without also losing the encryption/signature keys.
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: HyperReal-Anon 
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 06:20:57 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: simple socket forwarder
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




ichudov@Algebra.Com (Igor Chudov @ home) wrote:
>Anonymous wrote:
>>
>> Does anyone have a simple packet forwarder to run
>> on a unix system? I want to set up a daemon on an
>> account to just redirect traffic from a particular port
>> to another host for some basic anonymity, but I don't
>> have experience doing socket coding, nor a book.
>>
>
>It seems that what you need is called a proxy server.
>
>There was a perl script floating around that worked as a proxy server.
>
>If you do it for web accesses, consider using Crowd, a distributed
>network of anonymizing proxy servers.
>
>	- Igor.
>


I want to use it as a proxy for NNTP.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 11:56:28 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: Goldbach's Conjecture (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811200339.VAA08272@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: "Blake Buzzini" 
> Subject: RE: Goldbach's Conjecture
> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 22:17:54 -0500

> I could be wrong, but I thought Goldbach's conjecture was that every even
> number could be expressed as the sum of *two* primes. This doesn't prohibit

No, that was Fermat, Goldbach just says every even number greater than two
can be represented as a sum of primes. Basicaly Fermat says that if we have
n primes we can reduce them to 2 primes only, in all cases. Which happens to
exclude using equilateral triangles as a test bed since you can't tile a
equilateral with only two other equilaterals, you could use rectangles though.
So basicaly from a geometric perspective Fermat says that given a rectangle of
even area it is possible to divide it with a bisector into two rectangles of
prime area.

It's interesting that Fermat doesn't mention that the only prime that can
use two as a factor is 4. And you can't factor 2 at all since we eliminate
1 as a potential candidate (another issue of symmetry breaking simply so we
don't have to write '....works for every prime but 1' on all our theorems).

> repetition. Therefore, under Goldbach's conjecture:
> 
> 4 -> 2 + 2
> 6 -> 3 + 3 but NOT 2 + 2 + 2
> 8 -> 5 + 3 but NOT 2 + 2 + 2

The real issue for me is the interaction of primes (ie n * 1 = n) and the
identity theorem (ie n * 1 = n). They're opposite sides of the same coin.

It doesn't really matter now since it doesn't look like I'm going to get a
copy of EURISKO in this lifetime to play with.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 06:17:27 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: Snowball fight '98 - '99
Message-ID: <199811192045.VAA07824@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Guess what time it is?  That's right!  It's time to FUCK OFF!  Why don't
you jam a rusty nail in your snowball, shove it up your ass, spin it
around violently, and get back to me when you're dead.

Thanks.

At 12:42 PM 11/19/98 -0700, ethena@usa.net wrote:
>
>  > GOTCHA!!! 
>  > > \ | / 
>  > > \\ \ | | / // 
>  > > \\\ \\ // /// 
>  > > \\\ ####### /// 
>  > > \\## ##// 
>  > > -- ## ## -- 
>  > > -- ## squish!! ## -- 
>  > > //## ##\\ 
>  > > // ### ### \\ 
>  > > /// ####### \\\ 
>  > > /// // \\ \\\ 
>  > > // / | | \ \\ 
>  > > / | \ 
>  > > 
>  > > You have just been hit with a snow ball! 
>  > > > It's the start of..... 
>  > > Snow Ball Fight '98/'99!!!! 
>  > > 
>  > > One rule to this game.... 
>  > > You can't hit someone who has already hit you! 
>  > > Now...go out there and hit as many people 
>  > > as you can before they get you!! 
>  > 
>
>____________________________________________________________________
>Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Blake Buzzini" 
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 11:41:10 +0800
To: "CypherPunks" 
Subject: RE: Goldbach's Conjecture
In-Reply-To: <199811200034.SAA07327@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <002201be1434$5ce50380$88e3ba92@ruby-river>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I could be wrong, but I thought Goldbach's conjecture was that every even
number could be expressed as the sum of *two* primes. This doesn't prohibit
repetition. Therefore, under Goldbach's conjecture:

4 -> 2 + 2
6 -> 3 + 3 but NOT 2 + 2 + 2
8 -> 5 + 3 but NOT 2 + 2 + 2
etc...

But I am a lowly freshman, so what do I know...

Blake Buzzini, PSU


-----Original Message-----
From:	owner-cypherpunks@algebra.com [mailto:owner-cypherpunks@algebra.com]
On Behalf Of Jim Choate
Sent:	Thursday, November 19, 1998 7:34 PM
To:	Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer
Subject:	Goldbach's Conjecture


If we go with the flow and exclude 1 (so we don't have to rewrite all our
theorems) and assume that all even numbers greater than 2 can be represented
as a sum of two prime factors we have a problem...

How does one sum 4?

2 + 2?

We certainly can't use 3 + 1. If we allow repetition *and* the number 2 as a
prime then all even numbers can be written as a string of 2's summed
appropriately.


    ____________________________________________________________________

            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 12:03:52 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: Catastrophic Terrorism
Message-ID: <199811200342.WAA23775@smtp3.atl.mindspring.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Ex-CIA head John Deutch and two NatSecs write in November
Foreign Affairs on "Catastrophic Terrorism: Tackling the New
Danger:"

   http://jya.com/ct-tnd.htm  (36K)

They propose three new orgs to prevent and respond to terrorist
use of WMD on a large scale:

1. National Terrorism Intelligence Center (Mil/Intel/LEA)
2. National Information Assurance Institute (Gov/Corp/Tank)
3. Catastrophic Terrorism Response Offices (Intel/Plan/Train/Task/Direct)

Paralleling Senator Kyl and others, the proposals are based
on the increased domestic use of the military while proclaiming
civil liberties will be protected. And though there is considerable
detail about how the military, intelligence agencies and
law enforcement will work together - US and foreign - and the
vast purchases of sevices and equipment that will be needed, 
there's next to nothing about how civil liberties will be protected.

Reference is made to America's marshalling its patriotism and 
technology to win the Cold War, and the wondrous inventions
developed to do that. Again, though, no mention is made of the
price of military industrialism, which is to be expected of our
finest catastrophe-obessessed minds unable to imagine a world 
without endless national security threats to grow their pork.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Rabid Wombat 
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 12:19:23 +0800
To: Anonymous 
Subject: Re: your mail
In-Reply-To: <199811190754.IAA15057@replay.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Hey, asshole, keep my name outta this.

On Thu, 19 Nov 1998, Anonymous wrote:

>  #####      #    ######
>  #    #     #    #
>  #    #     #    #####
>  #    #     #    #
>  #    #     #    #
>  #####      #    ######
> 
>                                          #####
>  #    #     #     ####   #####    ####  #  #  #   ####   ######   #####
>  ##  ##     #    #    #  #    #  #    # #  #     #    #  #          #
>  # ## #     #    #       #    #  #    #  #####   #    #  #####      #
>  #    #     #    #       #####   #    #    #  #  #    #  #          #
>  #    #     #    #    #  #   #   #    # #  #  #  #    #  #          #
>  #    #     #     ####   #    #   ####   #####    ####   #          #
> 
>  #####      #    ######
>  #    #     #    #
>  #    #     #    #####
>  #    #     #    #
>  #    #     #    #
>  #####      #    ######
> 
> 
> FUCK micro$oft. Kill them all. Nuke Redmond.
> Sodomize bILL gATES.
> Cut his micro$oft prick and shove it up
> his own ass. 
> Rabid motherfucking whoremongerz at redmond.
> 
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Rabid Wombat 
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 12:24:49 +0800
To: Richard.Bragg@ssa.co.uk
Subject: Re: manners
In-Reply-To: <802566C1.00536A3E.00@seunt002e.ssa.co.uk>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





On Thu, 19 Nov 1998 Richard.Bragg@ssa.co.uk wrote:

> There are ways and means.  If someone requests software that is NOT free
> then a simple NO will surfice.  A list of contacts to purchase would aid
> income for the producer.
> An additional approach would be to suggest alternatives that are free.
> 
> There is never any call to be rude.
> 

Way to go, Dick!




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 13:38:03 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: Goldbach's Conjecture (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811200520.XAA08942@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: "Blake Buzzini" 
> Subject: RE: Goldbach's Conjecture (fwd)
> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 23:37:09 -0500

> >From _Elementary Theory of Numbers_ by William J. LeVeque, pg. 6:
> 
> "It was conjectured by Charles Goldbach in 1742 that every even integer
> larger than 4 is the sum of two odd primes.  (All primes except 2 are odd,
> of course, since evenness means divisibility by two.)"

Ok, so this one says it was Goldbach himself and in particular states two
odd primes completely eliminating 4 from the get go ...

> >From _Excursions in Number Theory_ by C. Stanley Ogilvy and John T.
> Anderson, pg. 82:
> 
> "Goldbach's conjecture. Is every even number expressible as the sum of two
> primes?"

This one is the second version...

> >From _Goldbach's Conjecture_ by Eric W. Weisstein
> (http://www.astro.virginia.edu/~eww6n/math/GoldbachConjecture.html):
> 
> "Goldbach's original conjecture, written in a 1742 letter to Euler, states
> that every Integer >5 is the Sum of three Primes. As re-expressed by Euler,
> an equivalent of this Conjecture (called the ``strong'' Goldbach conjecture)
> asserts that all Positive Even Integers >= 4 can be expressed as the Sum of
> two Primes."

And finaly a third completely different slant. They at least get Fermats
contribution right.

> Am I misreading somewhere?

Well I'd say that all three of your references tended to contradict each
other. Which one do you want to stand on?

This is my quote:
 
> No, that was Fermat, Goldbach just says every even number greater than two
> can be represented as a sum of primes. Basicaly Fermat says that if we have
> n primes we can reduce them to 2 primes only, in all cases. Which happens to
> exclude using equilateral triangles as a test bed since you can't tile a
> equilateral with only two other equilaterals, you could use rectangles
> though. So basicaly from a geometric perspective Fermat says that given a
> rectangle of even area it is possible to divide it with a bisector into two
> rectangles of prime area.
> 
> It's interesting that Fermat doesn't mention that the only prime that can
> use two as a factor is 4. And you can't factor 2 at all since we eliminate
> 1 as a potential candidate (another issue of symmetry breaking simply so we
> don't have to write '....works for every prime but 1' on all our theorems).

I'll stand by this statement.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Blake Buzzini" 
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 13:06:44 +0800
To: "CypherPunks" 
Subject: RE: Goldbach's Conjecture (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199811200339.VAA08272@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <002301be143f$6f8624f0$88e3ba92@ruby-river>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>From _Elementary Theory of Numbers_ by William J. LeVeque, pg. 6:

"It was conjectured by Charles Goldbach in 1742 that every even integer
larger than 4 is the sum of two odd primes.  (All primes except 2 are odd,
of course, since evenness means divisibility by two.)"


>From _Excursions in Number Theory_ by C. Stanley Ogilvy and John T.
Anderson, pg. 82:

"Goldbach's conjecture. Is every even number expressible as the sum of two
primes?"


>From _Goldbach's Conjecture_ by Eric W. Weisstein
(http://www.astro.virginia.edu/~eww6n/math/GoldbachConjecture.html):

"Goldbach's original conjecture, written in a 1742 letter to Euler, states
that every Integer >5 is the Sum of three Primes. As re-expressed by Euler,
an equivalent of this Conjecture (called the ``strong'' Goldbach conjecture)
asserts that all Positive Even Integers >= 4 can be expressed as the Sum of
two Primes."


Am I misreading somewhere?

Blake Buzzini, PSU

-----Original Message-----
From:	owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM [mailto:owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM]
On Behalf Of Jim Choate
Sent:	Thursday, November 19, 1998 10:39 PM
To:	Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer
Subject:	RE: Goldbach's Conjecture (fwd)


Forwarded message:

> From: "Blake Buzzini" 
> Subject: RE: Goldbach's Conjecture
> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 22:17:54 -0500

> I could be wrong, but I thought Goldbach's conjecture was that every even
> number could be expressed as the sum of *two* primes. This doesn't
prohibit

No, that was Fermat, Goldbach just says every even number greater than two
can be represented as a sum of primes. Basicaly Fermat says that if we have
n primes we can reduce them to 2 primes only, in all cases. Which happens to
exclude using equilateral triangles as a test bed since you can't tile a
equilateral with only two other equilaterals, you could use rectangles
though.
So basicaly from a geometric perspective Fermat says that given a rectangle
of
even area it is possible to divide it with a bisector into two rectangles of
prime area.

It's interesting that Fermat doesn't mention that the only prime that can
use two as a factor is 4. And you can't factor 2 at all since we eliminate
1 as a potential candidate (another issue of symmetry breaking simply so we
don't have to write '....works for every prime but 1' on all our theorems).

> repetition. Therefore, under Goldbach's conjecture:
>
> 4 -> 2 + 2
> 6 -> 3 + 3 but NOT 2 + 2 + 2
> 8 -> 5 + 3 but NOT 2 + 2 + 2

The real issue for me is the interaction of primes (ie n * 1 = n) and the
identity theorem (ie n * 1 = n). They're opposite sides of the same coin.

It doesn't really matter now since it doesn't look like I'm going to get a
copy of EURISKO in this lifetime to play with.


    ____________________________________________________________________

            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "kryz" 
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 08:23:00 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks" 
Subject: Fw: 1998-11-10 VP Unveils a Vietnam Veterans Virtual Wall on the Internet
In-Reply-To: <19981117171159.5.MAIL-SERVER@pub1.pub.whitehouse.gov>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





----------
| Date: dinsdag 17 november 1998 16:12:00
| From: The White House
| To: Public-Distribution@pub.pub.whitehouse.gov
| Subject: 1998-11-10 VP Unveils a Vietnam Veterans Virtual Wall on the Internet
|
|
|                             THE WHITE HOUSE
|
|                      Office of the Vice President
| ________________________________________________________________________
| For Immediate Release                                  November 10, 1998
|
|
|
|              VICE PRESIDENT GORE UNVEILS A VIETNAM VETERANS
|                  "VIRTUAL WALL" ON THE INTERNET AS PART
|                  OF A NEW VETERAN'S EDUCATION INITIATIVE
|
|             Also, Highlights New World War II Veterans Stamps
|
|
|      Washington, DC -- Vice President Gore announced today the creation
| of a Vietnam veterans "virtual wall" as part of a new web site to enable
| users to search for names and hear personal remembrances of Vietnam
| veterans.
|
|      "For 15 years, people have come to the Vietnam Wall to run their
| hands across the names and remember those who never came home," Vice
| President Gore said.  "Now, anybody who can run their hands across a
| computer keyboard will be able to make contact with those names and
| learn even more -- that these names belong to people who were brothers
| and sons, husbands and wives, mothers and daughters and that their
| courage helped make our freedom possible."
|
|      The web site -- a joint project of the Vietnam Veterans Memorial
| Fund and Winstar Communications, Inc. -- will become available in two
| stages:
|
|      Starting Veterans' Day, users will be able to tap into a new
|      web site on which they can click onto a deceased veteran's name
|      and hear audio remembrances from family members or friends.
|
|      Starting January 1999, users will be able to walk up to an
|      on-line virtual wall that recreates the look and feel of the
|      Vietnam Veterans Memorial Wall, run their hands over a
|      veteran's name as it appears on the actual memorial, and hear
|      audio remembrances from family members or friends.
|
|      The virtual wall is part of a nationwide program, The Young
| Americans Vietnam War Era Studies Project, to help educate students at
| over 17,000 American public and private high schools about the Vietnam
| War.
|
|      The project will include Vietnam-era high school curriculum guides
| that, among other things, will include an introduction to the Vietnam
| War; a look at the politics of the war; and information about those who
| served.  An Internet Education Center will focus on the historical,
| social, and political aspects of the war.
|
|      The Vietnam Veterans Memorial Fund also created a traveling replica
| of the Vietnam Veterans Memorial, which is currently located in New
| York, to allow grieving survivors and families to view the memorial in
| their own communities.  On Veterans Day, the traveling exhibit will
| include kiosks to enable Americans to record their remembrances of the
| war for posting on the virtual wall.
|
|      Earlier today, the Vice President unveiled the U.S. Postal
| Services' Celebrate the Century stamp series that includes three new
| World War II-related stamps:
|
|      the "World War II" stamp that pays tribute to the 16 million
|      men and women who served and sacrificed in uniform during that
|      war;
|
|      the "Women Support War Effort" stamp that honors the
|      contributions of home front war workers, without whom
|      soldiers, sailors, pilots, and marines could not have achieved
|      victory; and
|
|      the "GI Bill 1994" stamp that salutes the legislation that
|      provided benefits for veterans.
|
|      The Vice President praised the American Battle Monuments Commission
| and the U.S. Postal Service for coming together to make these
| commemorative stamps available to the American public.
|
|                                     ###
|





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Rabid Wombat 
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 13:06:25 +0800
To: Steve Schear 
Subject: Re: Piracy and cypherpunks
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




The best defence for the programmer is to make the software so buggy, 
complex, and poorly documented that enough revenue is obtained through 
support contracts and fees, supplemental documentation, training courses, 
and the like to cover the potential losses to piracy. NT comes to mind. ;)

On Thu, 19 Nov 1998, Steve Schear wrote:

> I tried to take a crack at it in Laissez Faire City Times
> http://www.zolatimes.com/V2.16/pageone.html
> 
> Tim May wrote:
> >At 7:33 AM -0800 11/19/98, Jim Gillogly wrote:
> >-- all issues of intellectual property are also issues of _enforceability_.
> >To the extent anonymous remailers, information markets, regulatory
> >arbitrage, systems like "BlackNet" ("BlackeBay," anyone?), and other crypto
> >anarchy technologies proliferate, enforcement of any particular nation's
> >intellectual property laws will become problematic.
> >
> >
> >-- finally, the U.S. position on patentability and copyrightability of
> >software and words is not the only position one may find morally
> >supportable. We do not, for example, allow "ideas" to be patented or
> >copyrighted (I don't mean "expressions of ideas," as in patents, or
> >"precise words," as in copyrights. Rather, I mean that we do not allow a
> >person to "own" an idea. To imagine the alternative, cf. Galambos.)
> >
> >
> >Long term, I expect current notions about intellectual property will have
> >to change.
> >
> >I'm a big believer in "technological determinism." For example, in my own
> >view (which I have debated with some well known cyberspace lawyers over the
> >years), the widespread deployment of video cassette recorders (VCRs)
> >necessarily changed the intellectual property laws. The Supreme Court, in
> >Disney v. Sony, uttered a bunch of stuff about time-shifting, blah blah,
> >but the real reason, I think, boiled down to this:
> >
> >"VCRs have become widespread. If people tape shows in their own homes, even
> >violating copyrighted material, there is no way law enforcement can stop
> >them short of instituting a police state and doing random spot checks. The
> >horse is out of the barn, the genie is out of the bottle. The law has to
> >change. But rather than admit that copyright is no longer practically
> >enforceable, we have to couch our decision in terms of "time-shifting" and
> >other such fig leaves."
> >
> >So, too, will anonymous remailers, black pipes, information markets,
> >regulatory arbitrage, and suchlike change the nature of intellectual
> >property.
> >
> >What form these changes will take, I don't know.
> >
> >--Tim May
> 
> 
> 
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 14:15:37 +0800
To: users@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (SSZ User Mail List)
Subject: COPA/CDA II blocked until 12/4/98  [/.]
Message-ID: <199811200557.XAA09091@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> X-within-URL: http://www.techweb.com/wire/story/TWB19981119S0021

>    [IMAGE] TechWeb - The Technology News Site [INLINE]
>     Technology News - [INLINE] [INLINE] . [INLINE] Judge Blocks CDA II
>    (11/19/98, 8:34 p.m. ET)
>    By John Gartner, TechWeb
>    
>    A federal judge on Thursday issued a temporary restraining order
>    preventing the Justice Department from enforcing the Child Online
>    Protection Act (COPA), an anti-pornography law Congress passed in
>    October.
>    
>    Judge Lowell Reed's decision will delay enforcement of the law until
>    at least Dec. 4. The injunction came in response to a lawsuit filed by
>    free speech advocates, filed just one day after the legislation was
>    signed by President Clinton.

[text deleted]


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 15:33:00 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: More Goldbach's Conjecture
Message-ID: <199811200702.BAA09369@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Well there are two more definitions, from the same book [1], that are not
equivalent:

pp. 335

For all natural numbers x, if x is even, non-zero, and not 2, then there
exist prime numbers y and z such that x is the sum of y and z.

pp. 673

...every even number, n>6 (it at least takes care of my question about 4),
 is the sum of two odd primes.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------


[1] VNR Concise Encyclopedia of Mathematics




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vortexia" 
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:34:03 +0800
To: 
Subject: The South African Internet Industry
Message-ID: <003b01be142b$346d9a60$c9e431ce@vort.nis.za>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Hi, the following is the situation as it stands with the development of
internet in south africa, and how things are being monopolised by 2 groups,
fighting for power, at the cost of the average internet user.

The 2 current groups fighting at the moment for power are the ISPA (the
internet service providers association) and the telecomms company,
guaranteed a monopoly on all telecomms in this country until 2003.  The
fight to date has gone as far as telkom trying to claim that the internet
falls under their telecomms monopoly law and therefore they get a monopoly
on it in this country.  This was rejected by SATRA (South African Telecomms
Regulations Authority) but the internet was still placed as a telecomms
service, subject to the telecomms acts.

Up until this time, the fights between the ISPA and Telkom have not as yet
had much bearing on the average internet user in this country, however
suddenly the hacking scene in south africa emerged, and 3 months ago some
kiddie hackers decided to fdisk a bunch of servers.  Under our laws nothing
could be done to them, but 3 months later they break into Telkom, they do no
damage, just browse around the system, telkom has them arrested etc.

Under our legal system however, their computers were seized, but no one was
actually allowed to view the contents of the harddrives etc on the machines.
Including the fact that even if they were allowed to look on those
harddrives, the data on those harddrives was encrypted according to the 2
hackers.


So to sum up the situation in this country:

Our backbone infrastructure of our internet (the telephone lines and digital
lines etc) are being monopolised by one company that is state controlled
(Telkom)
The hacking scene is rising into the picture fast, and no one is ready to
deal with it yet in the industry
The laws of this country protect no one from anything on the internet

Suddenly though there is a fight to create new laws in this country.

The law currently says the following

A.) You cannot be prosecuted for damaging or erasing data on a machine that
is not yours, due to the fact that all property that falls under the laws
which refer to damaged property, has to be corporeal, computer data is not
considered as such.

B.) You cannot be prosecuted for breaking and entering if you penetrate a
computer as breaking and entering under the current law has to refer to a
physical structure that you break into.

C.) You cannot be prosecuted for violations of copyright if you pirate
international software, and 99% of software in south africa is imported from
outside, this is due to the copyright act of 1978 stating the following:

A Computer program is defined as "a set of instructions fixed or stored in
any manner and which, when used directly or indirectly in a computer,
directs its operation to bring about a result"  A computer program will be
subject to copyright if it is original and if the author is a South African
citizen or domiciled or resident in the Republic, or if it is first
published or mad in the Republic.  Copyright initially vests in the author
of a work but it may be transferred to third parties.

With the above as our current law, there is a move to change various parts
of what is currently law.  Everything they are changing it to seems to be
based on the computer laws in the UK, and certain things from singapore.
They are also looking to form legislation that may or may not allow for
attempted decryption of logs on a harddrive, and the entry of decrypted logs
into evidence, the restriction of encryption in this country, the allowance
for semi-tangible evidence etc etc etc.

My question is, does anyone know where I can find information regarding the
UK laws as regards cyber crime, how the courts handle electronic logs, how
the courts handle encryption in the UK, and if anyone has any comments on
the above I would love to hear them.

Cheers

Andrew Alston
(System Administrator)





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Vipul Ved Prakash 
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 07:42:31 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com
Subject: VSNL Censors Indian Internet Sites.
Message-ID: <19981120042043.A2051@fountainhead.vipul.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



( My 19th nov. post to cypherpunks@cyberpass.net never showed up on 
  the list, so I reposting.  Thanks. ) 


   17 November, 1998
   FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
   Contact: Vipul Ved Prakash, 2233328. 
   

   VSNL Censors Indian Internet Sites


   NEW DELHI, INDIA - VSNL, the Indian Internet monopoly, has been
   illegally blocking Internet access to a number of Indian web sites for
   the last several weeks, a Delhi-based Internet presence provider
   revealed today. The block affects only Indian citizens in India -
   users anywhere else in the world are not affected.
   
   One of the sites targeted is Sense/NET, (www.sensenet.net). Sense/NET
   lets users of VSNL's text-based shell account use the graphical
   Netscape browser over their shell accounts, while using only the
   normal shell account facilities that VSNL provides. With Sense/NET,
   the common man can surf the Internet just like with VSNL's premium
   TCP/IP service, but at a fraction of the cost.
   
   General Logic, the startup company behind the Sense/NET service, is
   not taking the blocking of its server lightly. "We did not so much as
   receive any communication from VSNL about this step, which has the
   potential to seriously affect our business," said Dr. Pawan Jaitly, a
   director of the company. "It seems very strange, too, that a security
   breach was attempted on our server over the Internet just days before
   the blockage."
   
   The censored server, at the (currently blocked) IP address of
   208.222.215.97, hosts a number of other web sites including the
   largest Yellow Pages of Indian exporters and importers available on
   the Internet and the corporate web sites of the Apple Publishing
   Technology Center, NewGen Software, and Educational Consultants India
   Limited.
   
   The award-winning web site of Connect magazine, the first Indian print
   publication to launch a web edition, is also located on the General
   Logic server.
   
   Sense/NET users and others affected by the block who called up VSNL's
   help desk to request clarification on this issue and access to the
   sites were told by VSNL staffers that they did not know what the
   problem was, and that they themselves could not access the sites in
   question. No official intimation or even acknowledgement about the
   block has been forthcoming from VSNL.
   
   This is not the first time VSNL has blocked access to selected sites
   on the Internet. On September 19, 1998, online activist Dr. Arun
   Mehta's writ petition was admitted for hearing in the court of Justice
   Anil Dev Singh, Delhi High Court, against VSNL, challenging its
   blockage of certain Internet sites. The sites listed in the petition
   provide information and software for voice transmissions over the
   Internet.
   
   The petition argues that this action "is wholly without basis in law
   and amounts to arbitrary and illegal censorship of the petitioner's
   Fundamental Right to freedom of speech, expression and information as
   well as an illegal denial of his right to freedom to practice his
   chosen profession."
   
   The petition seeks affirmation that the constitutional rights to free
   speech apply equally in cyberspace, and it also opens up the issue of
   VSNL's ban on Internet telephony to judicial scrutiny. The matter will
   come up for hearing on December 9, 1998. The case is being argued by
   Mr. Ashok Aggarwal.
   
   The Exporters and Importers Yellow Pages web site hosted on General
   Logic's recently blocked server is a vital e-commerce resource for
   over sixty-five thousand traders who earn India valuable foreign
   exchange. "This ban will hurt Indian exporters as well. By banning
   access to sites... VSNL is cynically choosing to let the nation suffer
   severe loss if in the process it can safeguard its own monopolistic
   profits," said Dr. Mehta.
   
   "Ironically, VSNL also blocked Educational Consultants, a public
   sector government organization, with its action."
   
   General Logic was able to move all the web sites that were the victims
   of VSNL's action to a non-blocked area within hours. "Most of our
   clients didn't even notice their sites and email messages were being
   blocked by VSNL," said Dr. Jaitly. The Sense/NET site remains blocked,
   however.
   
   "What VSNL is doing is completely illegal. A website is a means of
   expression and is covered by the right to expression of all indian
   citizens under article 19(1)a of the Indian Constitution. This can
   only be restricted under article 19(2) on 'reasonable grounds' which
   include obscenity, but certainly not the provision of competitive
   services at reasonable cost," commented Rishab Aiyer Ghosh, managing
   editor of First Monday, a European journal on Internet law.
   
   Last year a duo of computer whiz-kids in Cochin released Shellsock, a
   software package that made it possible for users of VSNL shell
   accounts to browse the 'Net graphically. VSNL quickly set about
   working on ways to break Shellsock, and eventually succeeded in
   restricting the environment on its shell accounts to the extent that
   Shellsock was unable to function.
   
   General Logic launched its Sense/NET service soon after, with the goal
   of providing TCP/IP Internet 'tunneling' service to users worldwide,
   not just in India. "There are other countries suffering under the yoke
   of state censorship of the Internet, like China, whose authoritatian
   government, without warning, blocked access to the BBC web site for
   its citizens," said Dr. Mehta. "VSNL is a monopoly that is crippling
   India's progress on the Internet front."
   
   Even Microsoft, he observed, which holds an effective monopoly in the
   operating system market worldwide, has no mandate by any government in
   the market - it has to keep forging ahead or lose to its competitors.
   "VSNL does not have that motivation, and so it is that the Indian
   consumer and India suffer."
   
   Besides the threat of censorship and poor service, another risk with
   state monopoly Internet access providers is that they can read your
   mail, and monitor your communications, as the data flows through their
   systems. Jaitly disclosed that his company is working on providing
   strong military grade encryption as part of its Internet tunneling
   services, to provide secure private networks across untrusted links
   for business and personal use.
   
   "We envision Sense/NET as a sort of 'Meta ISP' providing secure,
   uncensorable Internet tunneling service to people in places where
   local access providers are unable or unwilling to deliver full
   access," said Vipul Ved Prakash, Director of research at General
   Logic. "We believe in every individual's fundamental right to access
   human knowledge without restriction. Our message to these people is:
   'There's light at the end of the tunnel.'"
   
   It's not all crypto-anarchy and dreams of digital revolution, however.
   Sense/NET is a valuable service for ordinary users who are attempting
   to make the most effective use of their VSNL shell accounts with the
   limited services provided. Many of the subscribers to the service are
   students and other low income groups, who simply cannot afford VSNL's
   higher priced services.
   
   A case in point is that of Pranav Lal, a New Delhi student. Pranav is
   blind, and VSNL's shell account is next to useless for him. Sense/NET
   on the other hand allows him to use voice-enabled software to surf the
   'net.
   
   "I can't afford the VSNL TCP/IP account, but for me it is vital that I
   am in touch with my peers over the world over the Internet," says
   Pranav. "Sense/NET is great because it lets me handle my email and
   navigate the web really simply."
   
   "We see the global free flow of ideas across national borders, enabled
   by digital data communications and encryption technology, as the most
   liberating development of the 20th century," said Ashish Gulhati head
   of development at General Logic. "Regulation is futile," he added. The
   company expects its services will be most in demand in countries where
   authoritarian regimes are in power.
   
   "It's shocking that this kind of thing continues to go on in India,"
   observed Dr. Mehta. "We're the world's largest democracy, on the brink
   of entering the 21st century as a major player in the global software
   industry. But we're still enslaved by laws created during the British
   Raj, even in high priority areas like telecom."
   
   [1324 Words]

     _________________________________________________________________
   
   Notes:
   
    1. Dr. Arun Mehta's petition is at
       .

    2. The Forum for Rights to Electronic Expression articles are at
       

    3. Censored sites:
          + http://www.sensenet.net/ (Currently blocked)
          + http://www.trade-india.com/ (Now accessible on a new server)
          + http://www.aptc-india.com/ (Now accessible on a new server)
          + http://www.edcil.org/ (Now accessible on a new server)
          + http://www.newgensoft.com/ (Now accessible on a new server)
          + http://www.newgen.net/ (Now accessible on a new server)
          + http://www.connectmagazine.com/ (Now accessible on a new server)
          + http://www.net2phone.com/ (Currently blocked)
          + http://www.vocaltec.com/ (Currently blocked)
          + http://www.netspeak.com/ (Currently blocked)

    4. Email addresses:
          + Dr. Arun Mehta - amehta@cerf.net
          + Ashish Gulhati - ashish@generalogic.com
          + Ashok Agarwal - ashokagr@del2.vsnl.net.in
          + Dr. Pawan Jaitly - pawan@generalogic.com
          + Rishab Aiyer Ghosh - ghosh@firstmonday.dk
          + Vipul Ved Prakash - vipul@generalogic.com

     _________________________________________________________________
   
   Rev: SNPR v0.06 1998/11/17 15:58:14 webmaster@generalogic.com


-- 

VIPUL VED PRAKASH              Cryptography.             "Everything is what 
mail@vipul.net             |   Distributed Systems. |    it is because it got
http://vipul.net/          |   Network Agents.      |    that way." 
91 11 2233328              |   Perl Hacking.        |  
198 Madhuban IP Extension  |   Linux.               |        d'arcy thompson.
Delhi, INDIA 110 092      /    Networked Media.    /




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 04:38:03 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: simple socket forwarder
Message-ID: <4a450e23d08fc272ab3f6260ccf0edcd@anonymous>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Does anyone have a simple packet forwarder to run
on a unix system? I want to set up a daemon on an
account to just redirect traffic from a particular port
to another host for some basic anonymity, but I don't
have experience doing socket coding, nor a book.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 20:28:55 +0800
To: Gordon Jeff  INSP 
Subject: RE: CJ's Teeth/Glasses
In-Reply-To: <9F00F15E736BD11196B700A0C98448FE0A9880@WR-SEA-SERVER-2>
Message-ID: <199811201206.HAA30839@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jeff,

Alia has written that you sent CJ's teeth to him at the AZ
Correctional Corporation of America but he never got them
(nor stuff she sent). Guess that's an indication of the 
superior quality of gov-regged private-run jails -- or mails.

Thanks for the reminder that CJ inquiries got to go through 
gov-regged private-run attorneys who are ever in conference
and don't return calls.

John


At 10:36 AM 11/19/98 -0500, you wrote:
>John, 
>
>I have responded directly to Alia on this matter.  It is *normal* for us
>to deal with the defense attorney on these types of situations, but not
>necessarily a requirement.  I would need something from either CJ or his
>attorney authorizing me to discuss the situation with you.  
>
>Jeff





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 21:27:23 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: More Goldbach's Conjecture (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811201307.HAA09998@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:08:16 +0100
> From: Mok-Kong Shen 
> Subject: Re: More Goldbach's Conjecture

> Evidently there is a printing error. 'n>6' should read 'n>=6'. Then
> they are equivalent (if one considers 4 = 2 + 2 to be known).

Or they don't like:

2 + 2

or,

3 + 3


Take your pick, either are equaly likely.



    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 14:35:14 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199811200611.HAA24436@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Rabid Wombat  crapped:
>
>Hey, asshole, keep my name outta this.
>

Nigga-lovin' asswipe, get yerself off this list.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 22:00:25 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Goldbach's Conjecture - the various definitions
Message-ID: <199811201329.HAA10119@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Now before somebody gets a bee in their bonnet....

Yes, the VNR has a typo in respect to the '6', it should be >2.

As to the various other definitions that folks have been submitting. I'm not
real sure what their exact point is since it's agreed by all that it's:

...all even numbers greater than 2..., and Goldbach believed it had to be
three prime factors while Fermat pointed out it could always be 2.

As to the two defintions that accredit the reduction from 3 to 2 to Goldbach
while leaving Fermat out of the picture fail to explain why Fermat's point
is called Fermat's in the first place.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Bernardo B. Terrado" 
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 09:31:56 +0800
To: Ray Jones 
Subject: Re: manners and piracy
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> how could someone giving you a "copy of statgraphics" not be
> considered priracy?  or were you looking for a donation.  if so, you
> should have been much more explicit about what you wanted.
> 
> > Well anyway thank you for your reply.
> > What I'm trying to point out is this
> >   it is OK with me if you say "Take your piracy requests elsewhere" 
> >   it is not OK with me if you say " ...fuck yourself"
> 
> what we're trying to point out is this
>   it is not OK with us if you send warez requests to the list.

It is the duty of all to say "Hey! respect intellectual property!" 
I too am against piracy, now I know that that software i.e statgraphics
is not a shareware. 

Thank you.
Exactly my point
  it is OK if you say
    "it is not OK with us if you send warez requests to the list."
  it is not OK if you say ".... fuck yourself"





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 00:01:10 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: Goldbach's Conjecture (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811201515.JAA10514@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 09:41:01 -0600
> From: Mark Hahn 
> Subject: RE: Goldbach's Conjecture (fwd)

> At 09:39 PM 11/19/98 -0600, Jim Choate instructed:
> >It's interesting that Fermat doesn't mention that the only prime that can
> >use two as a factor is 4. And you can't factor 2 at all since we eliminate
> >1 as a potential candidate (another issue of symmetry breaking simply so we
> >don't have to write '....works for every prime but 1' on all our theorems).
> 
> I thought I was following along until I got here, and got very lost. First
> question: I think the first sentence implies 4 is prime, so I must have
> the emphasis wrong.

No, I made a typo. I got so focused on primes last nite that I seem to have
typed it in instead of 'even'. I didn't notice it when I saw it posted to
the list. My mistake, sorry for the confusion.

What started this whole enquiry for me was the realization that the
multiplication identity axiom is related to the definition of a prime. Then
add on top of that the reason we exclude 1 is so we don't have to write
'...except for the prime 1' on the end of lots of number theory (re Richard
Feynman's comment during the Challenger Investigation). It was the 
realization that if we go ahead and include 1 so the axioms are in line with
each other (and use our cut&paste feature for the '...1...') then perhaps it
would provide a more consistent base and just maybe some of the extant
problems in number theory might become solvable in other ways. My original
intention was to get a copy of Doug Lenat's EURISKO theorem proving program
and change the definition of prime in its database and note the results
(after converting it to Perl from LISP). What started all that is that I'm
slowly going through 'An Introduction to Algebraic Structures' by J. Landin
(Dover) creating a cheat-sheet of number theory that eventualy I hope to post
on my webpage for reference.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 22:58:35 +0800
To: Tim May 
Message-ID: <199811201423.GAA28061@smtp.well.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 10:48 AM 11-19-98 -0800, Tim May wrote:
>Nonsense. I am not "implicated" as an accessory to anything. Speak for
>yourself only.
>
>There is no basis in law for the notion that several hundred subscribers to
>a mailing list are implicated in something because others talk about it.
>Get real.

One might as well claim that all the millions of subscribers to the LA
Times are "implicated" as accessories to an act that was described in the
paper's pages.

-Declan





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 23:16:35 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Fwd: FC: For Judge Reed, nixing CDA II was a difficult decision
Message-ID: <199811201436.GAA00614@smtp.well.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>X-Sender: declan@mail.well.com
>X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 
>Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 09:12:22 -0500
>To: politech@vorlon.mit.edu
>From: Declan McCullagh 
>Subject: FC: For Judge Reed, nixing CDA II was a difficult decision
>Sender: owner-politech@vorlon.mit.edu
>Reply-To: declan@well.com
>X-Loop: politech@vorlon.mit.edu
>X-URL: Politech is at http://www.well.com/~declan/politech/
>
>
>
>http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/16387.html
>
>                     by Declan McCullagh 
>                     3:00 a.m.  20.Nov.98.PST
>
>                     US District Judge Lowell A. Reed Jr. is a
>                     reluctant free speech advocate. 
>
>                     It took him all day Thursday to accept
>                     that the CDA II, scheduled to take effect
>                     on Friday, would have let federal
>                     prosecutors punish any American who
>                     operates Web sites with material deemed
>                     "harmful to minors." 
>
>                     By the time he finally decided to bar the
>                     Justice Department from enforcing the
>                     law, he painstakingly outlined how
>                     difficult his decision was. "The court has
>                     and will give careful analytical deference
>                     to" an act of Congress, he said. 
>
>                     Reed's reluctance is easy enough to
>                     understand. In language sure to give
>                     even the most steely-nerved judge the
>                     jitters, the US Supreme Court has called
>                     any court's decision to strike down an act
>                     of Congress "the gravest and most
>                     delicate duty that [it can be] called upon
>                     to perform."
>
>                     [...]
>
>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>POLITECH -- the moderated mailing list of politics and technology
>To subscribe: send a message to majordomo@vorlon.mit.edu with this text:
>subscribe politech
>More information is at http://www.well.com/~declan/politech/
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mark Hahn 
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 23:21:23 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19981120094101.00946d40@mail.aosi.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 09:39 PM 11/19/98 -0600, Jim Choate instructed:
>It's interesting that Fermat doesn't mention that the only prime that can
>use two as a factor is 4. And you can't factor 2 at all since we eliminate
>1 as a potential candidate (another issue of symmetry breaking simply so we
>don't have to write '....works for every prime but 1' on all our theorems).

I thought I was following along until I got here, and got very lost. First
question: I think the first sentence implies 4 is prime, so I must have
the emphasis wrong.

Unless you are saying that you cannot factor 4 as 2*2 because < of
something I missed >. So the only factorization of 4 is 4*1, hence 
four is prime. 

The other explanation is "Whoosh" the whole conversation when over
my head and I'm lost.

-MpH


--------
Mark P. Hahn                    Work: 212-278-5861
mhahn@tcbtech.com               Home: 609-275-1834
TCB Technologies, Inc

Consultant to:
The SoGen Funds	1221 Avenue of the Americas, NY NY




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 17:08:38 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199811200841.JAA04096@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Moahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah
u STOOPID dickheads and fuckwads supporting
CUNTS like micro$oft or even working there.
FUCK YOU lousy cockroaches. I, the great
tormentor and terminator will stamp you
out and exterminate you like the pests you
are.
HaHaHaHaHaHa mothafuckaz.
You will all die and give way to a better
world, better people and better systems.
Long live Unix, Mac, Amiga and TERROR.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mok-Kong Shen 
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 18:54:26 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: More Goldbach's Conjecture
In-Reply-To: <199811200702.BAA09369@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <36553180.613A5017@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate wrote:
> 
> Well there are two more definitions, from the same book [1], that are not
> equivalent:
> 
> pp. 335
> 
> For all natural numbers x, if x is even, non-zero, and not 2, then there
> exist prime numbers y and z such that x is the sum of y and z.
> 
> pp. 673
> 
> ...every even number, n>6 (it at least takes care of my question about 4),
>  is the sum of two odd primes.

> [1] VNR Concise Encyclopedia of Mathematics


Evidently there is a printing error. 'n>6' should read 'n>=6'. Then
they are equivalent (if one considers 4 = 2 + 2 to be known).

M. K. Shen




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 01:07:06 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: manners and piracy
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 7:59 PM -0500 11/19/98, Bernardo B. Terrado wrote:
>> how could someone giving you a "copy of statgraphics" not be
>> considered priracy?  or were you looking for a donation.  if so, you
>> should have been much more explicit about what you wanted.
>> > Well anyway thank you for your reply.
>> > What I'm trying to point out is this
>> >   it is OK with me if you say "Take your piracy requests elsewhere"
>> >   it is not OK with me if you say " ...fuck yourself"
>> what we're trying to point out is this
>>   it is not OK with us if you send warez requests to the list.
>It is the duty of all to say "Hey! respect intellectual property!"
>I too am against piracy, now I know that that software i.e statgraphics
>is not a shareware.

	Go fuck yourself.

	I have no responsibility to do anything YOU regard as a duty.
--
"To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a
jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a
gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather naďve, and certainly
unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust"
http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html

Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro@playboy.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 01:16:05 +0800
To: drg@pgh.org (Dr.G)
Subject: Re: SIGH... NOT!! THC tainted oranges
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199811201619.KAA17451@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Dr.G wrote:
> 
> On Thu, 19 Nov 1998, Igor Chudov @ home wrote:
> 
> > Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 14:51:58 -0600 (CST)
> > From: "Igor Chudov @ home" 
> > To: Steve Schear 
> > Cc: apf2@apf2.com, cypherpunks@cyberpass.net, drg@pgh.org
> > Subject: Re: SIGH... NOT!! THC tainted oranges
> > 
> > I would certainly appreciate pot yeast.
> > 
> 
> I would certainly appreciate some pot.

Well, I never smoked pot because I do not like the idea of smoking
anything and inhaling all this tar, soot, etc. I saw my friends having
real fun with pot and thought that pot bread or something like that
would be great.

Perhaps I sound very ignorant...

ignoramus

> > Yeast generally is a very tasty thing, and pot yeast will be truly yummy.
> > 
> > You could cook pot bread, pancakes, etc.
> > 
> > igor
> > 
> 
> You use pot for medicine too, and the local supply
> in nil.  I may have to drive to the big Apple.
> 
> > Steve Schear wrote:
> > > 
> > > 
> > > >Nobody that has been on this list very long could have been duped...We all
> > > >know that some group of MIB types would have swooped down on the guy, and
> > > >he would have been just another heart attack statistic...
> > > 
> > > I raised a similar thread last year. I caused quite a bit of comment. Since
> > > then I've discussed the possibility of employing a common yeast or other
> > > organism to allow individuals to create their own home pharmacies with
> > > friends and acquintances in this sector. Their opinions vary but all
> > > assured me that desktop genetic engineering and production capabilities are
> > > likely no more than 10 years away and that fed measures to prevent this
> > > will likely be singularly ineffective.
> > > 
> > > 
> 
> A cannabis garden is a pharmacy in an organic platform.
> 
> -DrG
> 
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 	- Igor.
> > 
> 



	- Igor.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 01:00:33 +0800
To: Rabid Wombat 
Subject: Re: Piracy and cypherpunks
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 11:44 PM -0500 11/19/98, Rabid Wombat wrote:
>The best defence for the programmer is to make the software so buggy,
>complex, and poorly documented that enough revenue is obtained through
>support contracts and fees, supplemental documentation, training courses,
>and the like to cover the potential losses to piracy. NT comes to mind. ;)

	A lot of software products seem to fit that description these days.
--
"To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a
jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a
gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather naďve, and certainly
unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust"
http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html

Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro@playboy.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "K. M. Ellis" 
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 00:29:04 +0800
To: dccp@eff.org
Subject: ANNOUNCE:  DC Cypherpunks Meeting Sat, Nov 21st
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





Crack open your palm pilots and take note!  And please repost widely.  Our
mailing list (dccp@eff.org), along with the rest of eff.org, is sadly out
of commission.

DC Cypherpunks will hold a meeting at the Electronic Privacy Information
Center office in Washington, DC.

DATE:  Soon!  Saturday, November 21, 1998

TIME:  5pm

Featured speaker:  Richard Schroeppel, University of Arizona
		   rcs@cs.arizona.edu

The Hasty Pudding Cipher

"NIST is organizing the search for a new block cipher, the Advanced
Encryption Standard.  The Hasty Pudding Cipher is my entry in the AES
competition.  The design goals for HPC are medium security, speed, and
flexibility.  Hasty Pudding works with any block length and any key
size.  It is optimized for 64-bit architectures, operating at 200 MHz
on large data blocks.  Hasty Pudding introduces a new feature, Spice,
which allows useful non-expanding encryption of small blocks, even
single bits.  The cipher includes some unusual design principles."


Location:  Electronic Privacy Information Center
	   666 Pennsylvania Ave. SE,
	   at the corner of Pennsylvania and 7th in South East DC
	   Across the street from Eastern Market Metro station (Orange & Blue
	   Line)

To get into the building, go around to the 7th street side next to the
flower shop and use the call box to call the EPIC office.  We'll buzz you
in.


True to DCCP form, we'll probably hit a local resturaunt afterwards for dinner.


If you need more explicit directions, please contact Kathleen Ellis at
(202)298-0833 or ellis@epic.org.

Kathleen Ellis Admin. Dir., Electronic Privacy Information Center
     Voice Mail:  (202)298-0833	http://www.epic.org
Keep up with the latest encryption news and events:  http://www.crypto.org

PGP 5.0 Key ID 9bf725b4  65FF B997 62B8 C396 A527 2D6A 4901 F701 9BF7 25B4





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Harvey Rook (Exchange)" 
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 03:41:27 +0800
To: "'Anonymous'" 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Oh my God! I'm so wrong! I feel so ashamed. Thank you for pointing this out
and correcting me.

ob cipher. I have working implementations of RC-4 and RC-6 with C++ source.
Drop me a line if you'd like a copy.

Harv
hrook@microsoft.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Anonymous [mailto:nobody@replay.com]
> Sent: Friday, November 20, 1998 12:41 AM
> To: cypherpunks@toad.com
> Subject: 
> 
> 
> Moahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah
> u STOOPID dickheads and fuckwads supporting
> CUNTS like micro$oft or even working there.
> FUCK YOU lousy cockroaches. I, the great
> tormentor and terminator will stamp you
> out and exterminate you like the pests you
> are.
> HaHaHaHaHaHa mothafuckaz.
> You will all die and give way to a better
> world, better people and better systems.
> Long live Unix, Mac, Amiga and TERROR.
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 03:45:14 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Digital cockroaches, 5 IP's per body by 2000 [CNN]
Message-ID: <3655BB59.76A8@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>    "Everyone will have an average of five IP objects on their body by
>    2000," he predicted. 
>
This is just blue sky space cadet baby wish babble. AKA : typical
marketing spew. The kind of thing you can engage in when your house is
paid off, your bank account is flush and you have a golden parachute.
PureCrap*.

Why would I voluntarily wear five independent tracking devices? So Louis
Freeh can do telemetry and administer electroshock from Windows 2000?
Move the bars closer, baby, I just love a cage. Please, yes I'll pay,
just squeeze me.

Everybody is trying to be the master of tomorrow's slave. ( phrase not
my own )

Just say NO,
Mike

*All of the smell and none of the fertilizer, not even good for growing
tomatoes.

Anyone know a URL for Starion nee Comsec( 3DES telephones ) ?




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Dr.G" 
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 00:45:39 +0800
To: "Igor Chudov @ home" 
Subject: Re: SIGH... NOT!! THC tainted oranges
In-Reply-To: <199811192052.OAA08530@manifold.algebra.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Thu, 19 Nov 1998, Igor Chudov @ home wrote:

> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 14:51:58 -0600 (CST)
> From: "Igor Chudov @ home" 
> To: Steve Schear 
> Cc: apf2@apf2.com, cypherpunks@cyberpass.net, drg@pgh.org
> Subject: Re: SIGH... NOT!! THC tainted oranges
> 
> I would certainly appreciate pot yeast.
> 

I would certainly appreciate some pot.

> Yeast generally is a very tasty thing, and pot yeast will be truly yummy.
> 
> You could cook pot bread, pancakes, etc.
> 
> igor
> 

You use pot for medicine too, and the local supply
in nil.  I may have to drive to the big Apple.

> Steve Schear wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > >Nobody that has been on this list very long could have been duped...We all
> > >know that some group of MIB types would have swooped down on the guy, and
> > >he would have been just another heart attack statistic...
> > 
> > I raised a similar thread last year. I caused quite a bit of comment. Since
> > then I've discussed the possibility of employing a common yeast or other
> > organism to allow individuals to create their own home pharmacies with
> > friends and acquintances in this sector. Their opinions vary but all
> > assured me that desktop genetic engineering and production capabilities are
> > likely no more than 10 years away and that fed measures to prevent this
> > will likely be singularly ineffective.
> > 
> > 

A cannabis garden is a pharmacy in an organic platform.

-DrG

> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 	- Igor.
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 02:14:31 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Goldbach's Conjecture (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811201733.LAA11400@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 18:27:39 +0100
> From: Mok-Kong Shen 
> Subject: Re: Goldbach's Conjecture (fwd)

> Jim Choate wrote:
> 
> > What started this whole enquiry for me was the realization that the
> > multiplication identity axiom is related to the definition of a prime. Then
> > add on top of that the reason we exclude 1 is so we don't have to write
> > '...except for the prime 1' on the end of lots of number theory (re Richard
> > Feynman's comment during the Challenger Investigation). It was the
> > realization that if we go ahead and include 1 so the axioms are in line with
> > each other (and use our cut&paste feature for the '...1...') then perhaps it
> > would provide a more consistent base and just maybe some of the extant
> > problems in number theory might become solvable in other ways. My original

> If you 'define' 1 to be 'prime', you are 'defining' Goldbach's
> conjecture 'away'! 

Duh.

I'll give you a hint, more than that single problem goes away.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: HyperReal-Anon 
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 19:55:51 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: New postage stamp
Message-ID: <99c4e400f183f816a06750cf9b8dc791@anonymous>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I hear they are coming out with a new "Monica Lewinsky" postage 
stamp. Initially, it will cost $.35. 







However, if you lick it, it will be considerably more expensive.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 02:14:15 +0800
To: ravage@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Subject: Re: More Goldbach's Conjecture
In-Reply-To: <199811200702.BAA09369@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <199811201742.LAA18097@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Jim Choate wrote:
> 
> 
> Well there are two more definitions, from the same book [1], that are not
> equivalent:
> 
> pp. 335
> 
> For all natural numbers x, if x is even, non-zero, and not 2, then there
> exist prime numbers y and z such that x is the sum of y and z.
> 
> pp. 673
> 
> ...every even number, n>6 (it at least takes care of my question about 4),
>  is the sum of two odd primes.

These conjectures are equivalent for numbers > 6. I think that the
discussion of whether numbers 4 and 6 can be expressed as sum of
two primes is completely uninteresting.

Also, since 6 = 3+3, I question why they put strict inequality (> 6)
in the definition on p 673. I think that they could say n > 4. Not that
it matters in any respect.

So I do not see them as "substantially" different, and the difference
between these conjectures does not lead us to any profound thoughts.

	- Igor.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Blake Buzzini" 
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 02:07:29 +0800
To: "CypherPunks" 
Subject: RE: Goldbach's Conjecture (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199811200520.XAA08942@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <002701be14a9$088b5490$88e3ba92@ruby-river>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



First, let me add yet another reference. This one is from _Number Theory in
Science and Communication_ by M.R. Schroder, pg. 96:

"One of the most enduring (if not endearing) conjectures is the famous
Goldbach conjecture, asserting that every even number >4 is the sum of two
primes."

I would argue they're all essentially equivalent.  Here's how they all
agree:

Goldbach's conjecture is that every even number is expressible as the sum of
TWO primes.

The variations are: (1)Goldbach's "original" conjecture versus his revised
conjecture after communication with Euler and (2) excluding four while
adding an odd-primes-only condition (four IS the sum of two EVEN primes,
namely 2 and 2). I think these variations are simply different depths/points
of view of the same idea and one who focuses on semantic differences is
missing the point.

Cutting to the chase, Goldbach's conjecture concerns the sum of EXACTLY TWO
primes stands, and your statement "If we allow repetition *and* the number 2
as a prime then all even numbers can be written as a string of 2's summed
appropriately" is thereby contradicted.

Let me conclude with this inspirational quote from a man whose name escapes
me: "Young men should write proofs, old men should write books." ; )

Blake Buzzini, PSU

-----Original Message-----
From:	owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM [mailto:owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM]
On Behalf Of Jim Choate
Sent:	Friday, November 20, 1998 12:20 AM
To:	Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer
Subject:	RE: Goldbach's Conjecture (fwd)


Forwarded message:

> From: "Blake Buzzini" 
> Subject: RE: Goldbach's Conjecture (fwd)
> Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 23:37:09 -0500

> >From _Elementary Theory of Numbers_ by William J. LeVeque, pg. 6:
>
> "It was conjectured by Charles Goldbach in 1742 that every even integer
> larger than 4 is the sum of two odd primes.  (All primes except 2 are odd,
> of course, since evenness means divisibility by two.)"

Ok, so this one says it was Goldbach himself and in particular states two
odd primes completely eliminating 4 from the get go ...

> >From _Excursions in Number Theory_ by C. Stanley Ogilvy and John T.
> Anderson, pg. 82:
>
> "Goldbach's conjecture. Is every even number expressible as the sum of two
> primes?"

This one is the second version...

> >From _Goldbach's Conjecture_ by Eric W. Weisstein
> (http://www.astro.virginia.edu/~eww6n/math/GoldbachConjecture.html):
>
> "Goldbach's original conjecture, written in a 1742 letter to Euler, states
> that every Integer >5 is the Sum of three Primes. As re-expressed by
Euler,
> an equivalent of this Conjecture (called the ``strong'' Goldbach
conjecture)
> asserts that all Positive Even Integers >= 4 can be expressed as the Sum
of
> two Primes."

And finaly a third completely different slant. They at least get Fermats
contribution right.

> Am I misreading somewhere?

Well I'd say that all three of your references tended to contradict each
other. Which one do you want to stand on?

This is my quote:

> No, that was Fermat, Goldbach just says every even number greater than two
> can be represented as a sum of primes. Basicaly Fermat says that if we
have
> n primes we can reduce them to 2 primes only, in all cases. Which happens
to
> exclude using equilateral triangles as a test bed since you can't tile a
> equilateral with only two other equilaterals, you could use rectangles
> though. So basicaly from a geometric perspective Fermat says that given a
> rectangle of even area it is possible to divide it with a bisector into
two
> rectangles of prime area.
>
> It's interesting that Fermat doesn't mention that the only prime that can
> use two as a factor is 4. And you can't factor 2 at all since we eliminate
> 1 as a potential candidate (another issue of symmetry breaking simply so
we
> don't have to write '....works for every prime but 1' on all our
theorems).

I'll stand by this statement.


    ____________________________________________________________________

            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Blake Buzzini" 
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 02:33:08 +0800
To: "CypherPunks" 
Subject: RE: Goldbach's Conjecture (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199811201515.JAA10514@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <002901be14ac$575bd880$88e3ba92@ruby-river>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



A group is only as useful as the special and similar properties items in the
group share. Primes are no exception. One isn't included in the set of
primes because it has special properties beyond or inconsistent with the
properties of primes. As to the notion that implementing your brilliant idea
"would [perhaps] provide a more consistent base and just maybe some of the
extant problems in number theory might become solvable in other ways", all I
can say is Puhleez... In Gauss, Fermat, Wiles, et al versus Jim Choate, I'd
put my money on the former.

Sorry for the rude response, I just don't like being sent hostile messages
to my personal email account.

Blake Buzzini, PSU

-----Original Message-----
From:	owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM [mailto:owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM]
On Behalf Of Jim Choate
Sent:	Friday, November 20, 1998 10:16 AM
To:	Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer
Subject:	RE: Goldbach's Conjecture (fwd)


Forwarded message:

> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 09:41:01 -0600
> From: Mark Hahn 
> Subject: RE: Goldbach's Conjecture (fwd)

> At 09:39 PM 11/19/98 -0600, Jim Choate instructed:
> >It's interesting that Fermat doesn't mention that the only prime that can
> >use two as a factor is 4. And you can't factor 2 at all since we
eliminate
> >1 as a potential candidate (another issue of symmetry breaking simply so
we
> >don't have to write '....works for every prime but 1' on all our
theorems).
>
> I thought I was following along until I got here, and got very lost. First
> question: I think the first sentence implies 4 is prime, so I must have
> the emphasis wrong.

No, I made a typo. I got so focused on primes last nite that I seem to have
typed it in instead of 'even'. I didn't notice it when I saw it posted to
the list. My mistake, sorry for the confusion.

What started this whole enquiry for me was the realization that the
multiplication identity axiom is related to the definition of a prime. Then
add on top of that the reason we exclude 1 is so we don't have to write
'...except for the prime 1' on the end of lots of number theory (re Richard
Feynman's comment during the Challenger Investigation). It was the
realization that if we go ahead and include 1 so the axioms are in line with
each other (and use our cut&paste feature for the '...1...') then perhaps it
would provide a more consistent base and just maybe some of the extant
problems in number theory might become solvable in other ways. My original
intention was to get a copy of Doug Lenat's EURISKO theorem proving program
and change the definition of prime in its database and note the results
(after converting it to Perl from LISP). What started all that is that I'm
slowly going through 'An Introduction to Algebraic Structures' by J. Landin
(Dover) creating a cheat-sheet of number theory that eventualy I hope to
post
on my webpage for reference.


    ____________________________________________________________________

            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 04:08:10 +0800
To: secret_squirrel@nym.alias.net (Secret Squirrel)
Subject: Re: Militiamen Assault Federal Command Post
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199811201901.NAA18802@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



I am not convinced that the bullets that struck the command post
were not simply hunting bullets that went astray.

igor

Secret Squirrel wrote:
> 
> 
> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 12:22:20 -0500
> From: Anarchist News Service 
> Reply-To: "news@overthrow.com" 
> Organization: Utopian Anarchist Party
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Newsgroups:
> 
> alt.anarchism,alt.society.anarchy,alt.law-enforcement,alt.politics.youth,alt
> 
> .society.high-school,alt.politics.radical-left,dc.general,alt.evil,alt.nuke.
> 
> the.USA,alt.parents.stupid,alt.politics.drinking-age,alt.politics.libertaria
> n,alt.politics.
> To: "news@overthrow.com" 
> Subject: Militiamen Assault Federal Command Post;  Shots Exchanged, No
> Injuries
> 
> Militiamen Assault Federal Command Post
> Shots Exchanged, No Injuries
> 
> November 17, 1998
> 
> Andrews, NC -- An unknown number of militiamen attacked a federal
> command post late last week, exchanging fire with agents.  No injuries
> on either side were reported, and the unknown number of militiamen were
> said to have fled.  The Rudolph Command Post, in Andrews NC, is the base
> from which more than 200 federal agents are conducting a search for Eric
> Rudolph, suspected bomber of a number of abortion clinics and of the
> 1996 Olympics.
> 
>     Federal agents say that bullets whizzed by their heads and that one
> agent was barely grazed when nearly a dozen shots were fired into their
> headquarters.
> 
>     Eric Rudolph, 32, has been charged in numerous bombings, including
> one that killed a police officer, and has fled into the woods of Western
> North Carolina.  The eighty agents that had been assigned to the case,
> until recently, when their number was boosted to 200, have been unable
> to locate Rudolph.  ANS correspondants on the scene that the local
> residents overwhelmingly support Rudolph, and that many have pledged
> that they would support and shelter him if they felt it necessary.
> 
>     Rudolph is linked to far-right Christian organizations.  ANS's North
> Carolina correspondents are not sympathetic to these organizations.
> 
> -----
> 
> For more anarchist news and information, contact:
> 
>     Utopian Anarchist Party
>     Post Office Box 12244
>     Silver Spring, MD 20908
> 
>     uap@overthrow.com
>     http://www.overthrow.com
> 
> 
> 
> 



	- Igor.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: custer@ravenhillstudios.com
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 06:43:09 +0800
To: 
Subject: Raven Hill Videos As Low As $6.99
Message-ID: <199811202156.NAA09781@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Dear Valued Customer,

     Raven Hill Studios Spanking Videos As low as $6.99.  This is 
not a Joke.  Come to our new site for complete details.
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: DOOM Anonymous Untraceable User 
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 21:10:28 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Pothead Survivalists Elude Massive Search
Message-ID: <199811201230.NAA06988@rogue.seclab.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 17:53:29 -0500
From: Anarchist News Service 
Reply-To: news@overthrow.com
Organization: Utopian Anarchist Party
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: "news@overthrow.com" 
Subject: Pothead Survivalists Elude Massive Search;  One Dead, Two Still
Eluding a Continent-wide Manhunt

Pothead Survivalists Elude Massive Search
One Dead, Two Still Eluding a Continent-wide Manhunt

November 18, 1998
Reprinted from Revolutionary Times, November, 1998
Much thanks to our comrade and friend of anarchy, Terry Mitchell, editor
of Revolutionary Times

Cortez, Colorado -- Like the plot of a farfetched Hollywood movie, three
potheads have proven impossible for police and the military to catch,
and the cops are stumped.
    On May 29th, police officer Dale Claxton stopped a stolen water
truck 50 miles east of Cortez, Colorado.  Before he could exit his
patrol car, three men, dressed in camouflage military fatigues, raked
his car with rifle fire.  He was struck four times and killed.  The
chase was on, and the three were determined not to be captured.
    Then men then drove to their own pickup and continued on with their
water truck.  It didn't take long for police backups to discover officer
Claxton's body and put out an All Points Bulletin.  A short while later,
another lone policeman stopped the water truck, lights flashing.  As he
sat behind the large tanker, a pickup pulled up behind him and stopped.
One camo clad man, wearing a combat helmet, rose up from the pickup bed,
pointed his rifle over the top, and began firing.  At the same time, the
drive reemerged from the pickup, blasting away at the cop.  The officer
was struck in the back, covered by his bulletproof vest, and his leg.
Then, seeing he was down and dazed, they abandoned the tanker and sped
off again.
    Police set up roadblocks on all the key roads, expecting to be able
to use "stop sticks" and their cars to apprehend the shooters.  But, the
savvy survivalists raced up, guns blazing, and literally shot their way
through a state-of-the-art roadblock.  Afterwards, police picked up
close to 5000 spent casings.
    The skill and boldness of the three left Colorado police stunned and
frightened.  They had no idea who the three were and, had it not been
for a bitter ex-girlfriend who snitched them out, they never would
have.  She identified the men as Alan "Monty" Pilon, 30, Jason McVean,
26, and Robert Mason, 26.
        Police quickly raided the mobile homes of the three, ripping
them to shreds.  At one home they found a pickup truck loaded with food,
ammunition and other gear;  as though they had been planning to leave
for the countryside as soon as they had secured the water truck.  At
another of the three's home, police found a small amount of weed, a
pipe, and a pack of papers.  Also found was a map indicating the
locations of 17 cache sites in the desert mountain region.
        As with any situation where the powers of the state were
challenged, the government responded with overwhelming force;  an army
of 200 National Guard and active duty military, plus 300 state, local
and federal police.  An enormous manhunt began for the trio in western
Colorado and eastern Utah.
    Helicopters using latest-generation night vision equipment scoured
the cliffs and valleys in vain.  Special listening, motion and heat
sensing equipment was brought in, but detected no movement or sound that
could lead them to the three.
    Police found the pickup abandoned with tracks leading into the
brush.  But this presented another problem;  FBI and Colorado SWAT teams
going through the tamarisk complained "they can stand ten feet apart and
not see each other."
    A geyser of propaganda erupted, claiming the three were suspects in
the robbing of a gambling casino a year before and that they were
members of the Four Corners Militia.  These lines were repeated over and
over in print and on television.  But there were obvious holes in the
stories.  First, there is no Four Corners Militia.  The entire militia
connection was a fabrication designed to smear all paramilitary groups
with a broad brush.  Second, if the men were suspects, why had they
never been picked up or even questioned about the robberies?
    On July 5th, a Colorado social worker driving along a desert highway
spotted a pair of combat boots beside the road.  Having heard all the
intense "gotta hate 'em" propaganda, he quickly dialed the police on his
cell phone.  But this was not going to be just another easy snitch.  As
he sat looking at the surrounding area, he caught the reflection of
sunlight off the telescopic sight of a rifle.  Just then the dirt began
to kick up around him with bullet strikes, and he sped away to clean up
his pants.
    Sheriff's Deputy Kelley Bradford raced to the scene, only to be met
with a hail of gunfire that left him shot twice and lucky to be alive.
That brought the total to one policeman killed, four wounded, and six
police cars riddled by bullets.  The cops were freaking out.
    Then came a strange twist to the tale.  Robert Mason was found dead,
a victim of what police claim was a suicide.  His body was found in a
bunker-like structure just back from the highway were his boots were
set.  He was wearing body armor and had several pipe bombs near him.
Oddly enough, he was shot between the eyes, a place rarely chosen for
suicide.  He  may have actually been executed on the spot by the police,
or shot by his accomplices.
    Cooperation between local police agencies and Navajo Nation police
was sabotaged by racism from the white officers.  Navajo police
complained that their reports of sightings of the men were ignored.
Local police responded by saying the Navajos "were difficult to work
with."  SWAT teams ran here and there chasing reports that came in
through their sources.
    Searchers found the 17 cache sites marked on a map discovered at one
of the residences, but they had already been cleaned out.  The map had
actually been turned over to the US Army Topographical Intelligence
Division where sites were matched to military maps, which were then
given to the police.
    The mighty Colorado River was effectively closed off to bat traffic,
with rafters pulled to the shore by police and questioned.  A ban on
boating was put into place for a time, but was called off after it began
to impact local economies.
    At the present time, the search has been scaled back significantly.
Blackhawk helicopters make routine patrols over the Colorado/Utah
borders looking for the two surviving masked me.  Rumors are flying in
Colorado, with the latest being that the two are being hidden by local
supporters.

-----

Editor's (Terry Mitchell's) commentary:  While I do not support the
theft of other people's vehicles, I have a high respect for the
determination of the three to not be stopped.  Had they pooled their
money, all were gainfully employed, and bought a water truck instead of
stealing one, the entire incident would not have happened.  From the
looks of things, the theft was part of their plan to immediately pull
back from the cities and into the desert.  Do they know something we
don't?
    Their struggles have revealed something important to all oppressed
victims of the War on Drugs -- the emperor truly wears no clothes.  We
have all heard about how high-tech devices used by the police and
military can "count the kernels on an ear of corn from outer space" and
how their is no longer any place to hide.  Well, this is bullshit.
Those pot smoking gunmen have proven that people can fight the
government  , win, and disappear indefinitely.  Big Brother isn't as
tough as he would have you believe.  "Pay no attention to the man behind
the curtain."

-----

    Terry Mitchell is editor of Revolutionary Times and head of the
Green Panthers, a radical marijuana legalization organization.  The
Green Panthers can be reached at http://www.greenpanthers.org , at
panthers@eos.net . or at Panthers Press, PO Box 31231, Cincinnati, OH
45231, 513-522-6264, Fax:513-522-6234 .
    The Green Panthers provide free referrals to defense lawyers who
specialize in marijuana defense in all 50 states, among other
activities.
    Revolutionary Times is printed by Panthers Press and can be reached
at the above address.  A one-year subscription costs $20.  Other
contributors to Revolutionary Times includes Thomas Chittum, author of
Civil War II:  The Coming Breakup of America , soon to be available in
the UAP Book's "Leaders of the Far Right" section at
http://www.overthrow.com , and available now from UAP Book and is
Amazon.com at

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0929408179/utopiananarchist .

-----

For more anarchist news and information, contact:

    Utopian Anarchist Party
    Post Office Box 12244
    Silver Spring, MD 20908

    uap@overthrow.com
    http://www.overthrow.com







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Trei, Peter" 
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 03:21:29 +0800
To: "'bill.stewart@pobox.com>
Subject: January Bay Area meeting date.
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



The 1999 RSA Data Security Conference will be held
in San Jose, Sunday January 17th thru Thursday,
January 21. It will bring a lot of out-of-town
members of these mailing lists into the Bay Area.

Last year, the date of the January Cypherpunks
Physical Meeting was shifted so that conference
attendees who stayed over the weekend could turn
up. Several did, and I gave a repeat performance
of my conference presentation.

I'd like to suggest shifting the date again. The 
physical meetings seem to be normally held second 
Saturdays, which  suggests a Jan 9 date. If it 
could be moved up to the 16th, people could 
arrive on Friday (or early Saturday) and 
attend the cpunk meeting. Many conference
attendees will be staying over that Saturday
night to take advantage of the cheaper airfares.

Peter Trei




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mixmaster 
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 08:30:13 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <83762d986d152f062f0bd96df4654a34@anonymous>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Thu, 19 Nov 1998, Bernardo B. Terrado wrote:

>| Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 11:46:14 +0800 (CST)
>| From: Bernardo B. Terrado 
>| To: Jim Gillogly 
>| Cc: cypherpunks@toad.com, coderpunks@toad.com
>| Subject: manners and piracy
>|
>| I don't intend to pirate anything or make someone do  it in any case.
>|
>| Well anyway thank you for your reply.
>| What I'm trying to point out is this
>|   it is OK with me if you say "Take your piracy requests elsewhere"
>|   it is not OK with me if you say " ...fuck yourself"
>|

Bernardo Terrado:  take your motherfucking, goddamned sorry warez ass to FUCKING hell!

personally, i have nothing against an individual who wants to get some free shitty pirated software (*i'm* certainly NO warez pup, mind you), i'm a very open-minded anarchist/libertarian, i use Linux, GNUware, etc...(shit!  those bloodsucking faggots at the IRS have enough to develop a profile of me now), but what *really* FUCKING offends me is when some cocksmoker like your sorry fucking "Rico Suave" self come onto this list and gets FUCKING offended by a motherFUCKing word like "FUCK".

FUCK YOU Bernardo!  no wait, F U C K  Y O U, bernardo!  FUCK YOU.

Sincerely FUCK OFF, Bernardo, you stupid fucknut.

 -- PureFUCK, just another disgruntled taxpayer

 -- fingerFUCK Bernardo's mom for PureFUCK's PGP key

>| gets?
>|
>| On Wed, 18 Nov 1998, Jim Gillogly wrote:
>|
>| > Bernardo B. Terrado wrote:
>| > > > Could someone give me a copy of statgraphics for dos or windows?
>| > > > I would gladly appreciate it.
>| >
>| > and then took issue with somebody obscenely taking him to task for
>| > asking these lists for a pirated version of this software:
>| >
>| > > Well I thought this list was a list of intellectuals, not only good in
>| > > hacks and coding and programming and the likes but also well "tailored"
>| > > with their manners,
>| >
>| > Bernardo, this package costs in the neighborhood of $900 US.  What makes
>| > you think the mannered intellectuals you expect to find on these
>| > lists would either condone or contribute to software piracy on this
>| > scale?  Or that they would not take violent verbal objection to the
>| > suggestion that they would do so?
>| >
>| > Take your piracy requests elsewhere.  These aren't warez lists.
>| > --
>| >    Jim Gillogly
>| >    29 Blotmath S.R. 1998, 01:12
>| >    12.19.5.12.12, 4 Eb 5 Ceh, Ninth Lord of Night





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: mib 
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 06:43:40 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com
Subject: The Missing Thirteenth Amendment
Message-ID: <3655E706.14A0D644@io.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



The Missing Thirteenth Amdendment
http://www.nidlink.com/~bobhard/orig13th.html

- d.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: lcs Mixmaster Remailer 
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 02:07:46 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: packet socket forwarder
Message-ID: <19981120172017.27052.qmail@nym.alias.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Does anyone have a simple packet forwarder to run
on a unix system? I want to set up a daemon on an
account to just redirect traffic from a particular port
to another host for some basic anonymity, but I don't
have experience doing socket coding, nor a book.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Asgaard 
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 01:14:29 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Anon GSM in New York?
In-Reply-To: <99c4e400f183f816a06750cf9b8dc791@anonymous>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Since I'll be visiting New York shortly I wonder if there are
any GSM-net provider there issuing anonymous sim cards for cash
that would fit in my Ericsson SH888?

Asgaard 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Secret Squirrel 
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 02:43:29 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Militiamen Assault Federal Command Post
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 12:22:20 -0500
From: Anarchist News Service 
Reply-To: "news@overthrow.com" 
Organization: Utopian Anarchist Party
MIME-Version: 1.0
Newsgroups:

alt.anarchism,alt.society.anarchy,alt.law-enforcement,alt.politics.youth,alt

.society.high-school,alt.politics.radical-left,dc.general,alt.evil,alt.nuke.

the.USA,alt.parents.stupid,alt.politics.drinking-age,alt.politics.libertaria
n,alt.politics.
To: "news@overthrow.com" 
Subject: Militiamen Assault Federal Command Post;  Shots Exchanged, No
Injuries

Militiamen Assault Federal Command Post
Shots Exchanged, No Injuries

November 17, 1998

Andrews, NC -- An unknown number of militiamen attacked a federal
command post late last week, exchanging fire with agents.  No injuries
on either side were reported, and the unknown number of militiamen were
said to have fled.  The Rudolph Command Post, in Andrews NC, is the base
from which more than 200 federal agents are conducting a search for Eric
Rudolph, suspected bomber of a number of abortion clinics and of the
1996 Olympics.

    Federal agents say that bullets whizzed by their heads and that one
agent was barely grazed when nearly a dozen shots were fired into their
headquarters.

    Eric Rudolph, 32, has been charged in numerous bombings, including
one that killed a police officer, and has fled into the woods of Western
North Carolina.  The eighty agents that had been assigned to the case,
until recently, when their number was boosted to 200, have been unable
to locate Rudolph.  ANS correspondants on the scene that the local
residents overwhelmingly support Rudolph, and that many have pledged
that they would support and shelter him if they felt it necessary.

    Rudolph is linked to far-right Christian organizations.  ANS's North
Carolina correspondents are not sympathetic to these organizations.

-----

For more anarchist news and information, contact:

    Utopian Anarchist Party
    Post Office Box 12244
    Silver Spring, MD 20908

    uap@overthrow.com
    http://www.overthrow.com







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: palmdeveloper@palmdevcon.com
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 10:28:09 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Register Today for Palm Dev Con -- Win Great Prizes!
Message-ID: <199811210203.SAA11016@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Be a Part of the New Force in Handheld Computing! 

Point your browser to http://www.palmdevcon.com and register now for the 1998 Palm Computing 
Platform Worldwide Developer Conference.

Hear Keynotes from the industry's leading experts in handheld computing including Mark Bercow, Jeff 
Hawkins, Donna Dubinsky and more!

Choose from over 90 hours of sessions --including introductory & advanced technical, sponsor, and 
business and enterprise sessions. 

And, be the first to see hot new and pre-release technologies! 

Register TODAY! http://www.palmdevcon.com 

Those who pre-register qualify to win great prizes, including Palm devices for a year and a trip to 
SuperBowl XXXIII!  (On-site registrants will not be eligible, so register now!) 


Your email was included on a list provided by Palm Computing, Inc.  Should you wish to be deleted from 
this list, please respond back to "postmaster@palmdevcon.com".    





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mok-Kong Shen 
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 02:31:13 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: Goldbach's Conjecture (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199811201515.JAA10514@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <3655A68B.CB9EE8DE@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate wrote:

> What started this whole enquiry for me was the realization that the
> multiplication identity axiom is related to the definition of a prime. Then
> add on top of that the reason we exclude 1 is so we don't have to write
> '...except for the prime 1' on the end of lots of number theory (re Richard
> Feynman's comment during the Challenger Investigation). It was the
> realization that if we go ahead and include 1 so the axioms are in line with
> each other (and use our cut&paste feature for the '...1...') then perhaps it
> would provide a more consistent base and just maybe some of the extant
> problems in number theory might become solvable in other ways. My original
> intention was to get a copy of Doug Lenat's EURISKO theorem proving program
> and change the definition of prime in its database and note the results
> (after converting it to Perl from LISP). What started all that is that I'm
> slowly going through 'An Introduction to Algebraic Structures' by J. Landin
> (Dover) creating a cheat-sheet of number theory that eventualy I hope to post
> on my webpage for reference.

If you 'define' 1 to be 'prime', you are 'defining' Goldbach's
conjecture 'away'! 

M. K. Shen




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mok-Kong Shen 
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 03:21:29 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: Goldbach's Conjecture (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199811201733.LAA11400@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <3655B4B9.77434085@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate wrote:
> 

> 
> I'll give you a hint, more than that single problem goes away.

But what would you gain in return for your defining 1 to be prime?

M. K. Shen




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: francearewcwinners@juno.com (Real Madrid)
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 09:57:51 +0800
To: FranceareWCwinners@juno.com
Subject: Re: Top players in the world revised:
Message-ID: <19981120.202740.-66453.2.FranceareWCwinners@juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



!!   FOR YOUENGLISH FANS   !!! FOR YOU BRITS  !!!VILLA  MANCHESTER 
ARSENAL   !!

These are some very good revised players that could be called the best in
the 
world-no number ranks! You oppinions Matter! alittle.  Pass on to 
soccer lovers!  Add! Take away! There are English now

>INCE-ENGLAND-LIVERPOOL-DEFENSIVE MIDFIELD
>OWEN-ENGLAND-LIVERPOOL-STRIKER-ONLY 18!!!!!
>BECKHAM-ENGLAND-MANCHESTER UNITED-MIDFIELD
>ADAMS-ENGLAND-ARSENAL-SWEEPER
>CAMBELL-ENGLAND-MANCHESTER UNITED-DEFENDER
	HAPPY NOW ALLAN+JEFF
>Zidane- France-Juventus-Attacking midfield
>Ronaldo-Brazil-Inter-Striker
>Thuram-France-Parma-Defender
>Chivalert-Paraguay-River Plate-Goal Kepper 
>Davids-Holland-Juventus-Defensive Midfield
>R.Carlos-Brazil-Real Madrid- WIDE Defender
>Hierro-France-Real Madrid-Center Defender
>Raul-Spain-Real Madrid-Attacking Midfield/Striker
>Seedorf-Holland-Real Madrid-Midfield
>Rivaldo-Brazil-Barcelona-Attaking Midfield
>Dessally-France-Chelsea-Center Defender
>Frank De Boer-Holland-Ajax-Center Defender
>Van der Sar-Holland-Ajax-Goal Keeper
>Del Piero-Italy-Juventus-Striker
>Mijatovic-Yugoslovia-Real Madrid-Striker
>Suker-Croatia-Real Madrid-Striker
		IS THIS OK RYANS GOING BACK TO PAXON JAV!!!!!
___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: francearewcwinners@juno.com (Real Madrid)
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 09:54:27 +0800
To: franceareWCwinners@juno.com
Subject: Top teams revised FOR YOU BRITS
Message-ID: <19981120.202740.-66453.3.FranceareWCwinners@juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



	HERE HERE HERE ALLAN AND JEFF ARE YOU HAPPY no numbers
>ASTON VILLA
>MANCHSETER UNITED
>ENGLAND
>real madrid
>holland
>FEYNORD
>france
>itlay
>brazil
>BAYERN MUNICH
		HAPPY ALLAN ARE YOU get me that deal with NIKE
___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: zzq2@juno.com (John P Walker)
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 11:32:02 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Fw: Re: Top players in the world revised:
Message-ID: <19981120.220631.-1897.2.zzq2@juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





--------- Forwarded message ----------
From: francearewcwinners@juno.com (Real Madrid)
To: FranceareWCwinners@juno.com
Cc: cypherpunks@toad.com, skain0285@aol.com, agreaves@netreach.net,
	 Jav885@aol.com, zzq2@juno.com, greg@juno.com,
	 UBshaggin@aol.com, SB0702@aol.com, SlvurCloud@aol.com,
	 Tippy51587@aol.com, Shon941@aol.com, Michael200000@juno.com,
	 schnook27@aol.com, 007@aol.com, scottbrown@Exeloncorps.com,
	 ray@aol.com, errorlie@aol.com, case_s@aol.com,
	 LalaJeff@aol.com, bob@aol.com, Hotgirl@aol.com,
	 dazedcow@aol.com, ronaldo@aol.com, RealMadrid@aol.com,
	 dumbblonde@aol.com, prostitute@aol.com, johnsmith@aol.com,
	 nudegirl@aol.com, umb@aol.com, joe@aol.com, janitor@aol.com
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 20:22:41 -0500
Subject: Re: Top players in the world revised:
Message-ID: <19981120.202740.-66453.2.FranceareWCwinners@juno.com>

!!   FOR YOUENGLISH FANS   !!! FOR YOU BRITS  !!!VILLA  MANCHESTER 
ARSENAL   !!

These are some very good revised players that could be called the best in
the 
world-no number ranks! You oppinions Matter! alittle.  Pass on to 
soccer lovers!  Add! Take away! There are English now

>INCE-ENGLAND-LIVERPOOL-DEFENSIVE MIDFIELD
>OWEN-ENGLAND-LIVERPOOL-STRIKER-ONLY 18!!!!!
>BECKHAM-ENGLAND-MANCHESTER UNITED-MIDFIELD
>ADAMS-ENGLAND-ARSENAL-SWEEPER
>CAMBELL-ENGLAND-MANCHESTER UNITED-DEFENDER
	HAPPY NOW ALLAN+JEFF
>Zidane- France-Juventus-Attacking midfield
>Ronaldo-Brazil-Inter-Striker
>Thuram-France-Parma-Defender
>Chivalert-Paraguay-River Plate-Goal Kepper 
>Davids-Holland-Juventus-Defensive Midfield
>R.Carlos-Brazil-Real Madrid- WIDE Defender
>Hierro-France-Real Madrid-Center Defender
>Raul-Spain-Real Madrid-Attacking Midfield/Striker
>Seedorf-Holland-Real Madrid-Midfield
>Rivaldo-Brazil-Barcelona-Attaking Midfield
>Dessally-France-Chelsea-Center Defender
>Frank De Boer-Holland-Ajax-Center Defender
>Van der Sar-Holland-Ajax-Goal Keeper
>Del Piero-Italy-Juventus-Striker
>Mijatovic-Yugoslovia-Real Madrid-Striker
>Suker-Croatia-Real Madrid-Striker
		IS THIS OK RYANS GOING BACK TO PAXON JAV!!!!!
___________________________________________________________________ You
don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get
completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or
call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: zzq2@juno.com (John P Walker)
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 11:28:14 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Mea Cupla
Message-ID: <19981120.221100.-1897.3.zzq2@juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I am afraid I just accidently posted a completely off topic message. 
This is because the address of cypherpunks and my friend are next to each
other in my address book, and I clicked on the wrong one.  Again, I am
very sorry to waste your time.

				-John
___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Frederick Burroughs 
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 12:53:01 +0800
To: Cypherpunks 
Subject: Re:
In-Reply-To: <83762d986d152f062f0bd96df4654a34@anonymous>
Message-ID: <36564138.F1EC2D99@shentel.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Mixmaster wrote:

> Bernardo Terrado:  take your motherfucking, goddamned sorry warez ass to FUCKING hell!

[flying fuckfest snipped...]Oh shit! Bwahhaahaaa, HAHABWAAAHAHAAAA!!!DAMN! Now look what you made me do, I gotta change my pants.
Harumffff, BWFFFFAHAAHAAAAAA!!! Jeeezuz. Sheesh.
You go wash your mouth before you kiss your mother. Goddamn.



begin:          vcard
fn:             Rick Burroughs
n:              Burroughs;Rick
email;internet: riburr@shentel.net
x-mozilla-cpt:  ;0
x-mozilla-html: FALSE
version:        2.1
end:            vcard




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Judd Howie" 
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 02:11:56 +0800
To: 
Subject: NYM
Message-ID: <003101be14ac$10552ae0$57eb18d2@irix2>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Could anyone please suggest some reliable and online nym servers besides
nym.alias.net?
Preferably free.

TIA.








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 10:04:20 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: none
In-Reply-To: <83762d986d152f062f0bd96df4654a34@anonymous>
Message-ID: <199811210137.CAA27845@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>>>> PureFUCK  fucking wrote:

[a whole lot of fucking text deleted]

  > i use Linux, GNUware, etc...

[more fucking text deleted]

don't *real* fucking linux hackers say `fscking'?
just fucking curious... 

-- NotTheBobMonger ;-)




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 11:21:22 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: do not fold spindle or mutilate
Message-ID: <199811210255.DAA02082@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 08:15 PM 11/19/98 -0500, Bill Stewart wrote:
>Encryption is NOT just "mathematics, period".  It's mathematics,
>plus operations, password management, key distribution,
>keeping track of who's allowed to see what, 
>plus hardware and operating systems to run the mathematics on,
>and unless you're running it in wetware, it's also
>computer security to protect the hardware and operating systems.
>And it's black operations to go out and steal the other guys'
>hardware and keys and yellow-sticky-notes and crack their OSs.

Actually, to a sufficiently advanced civilization, these are
all describable with mathematics.

>In some contexts, especially real people's contexts,
>your PC may be a fine place to run the encryption,
>but in an NSA / DoD context, especially when there's a war on,
>the safest way to manage many of these things is to use
>dedicated tamper-resistant hardware with the users on one side

Nota bene: tamper-detection + zeroizing >> tamper resistance.

--Pasty aliens spied my mugs








  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 11:18:58 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: m'men / baiting
Message-ID: <199811210255.DAA02118@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 01:01 PM 11/20/98 -0600, Igor Chudov @ home wrote:
>I am not convinced that the bullets that struck the command post
>were not simply hunting bullets that went astray.

Pessimist.








  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Lucky Green 
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 14:47:53 +0800
To: Bill Stewart 
Subject: Re: Free Email as Anonymous Remailer Re: NPR is at it again...
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981114002632.007caa30@idiom.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Sorry for the slow reply. Any http anonymizer not using link padding is
subject to trivial traffic analysis. See the "Pipe-net" thread in the
archive. Also see the graphs at http://www.onion-router.net/Vis.html

What makes the graphs all the more impressive is that the OR people used
to argue against my claim that you need link padding. They don't argue any
more. ;-)

--Lucky

On Sat, 14 Nov 1998, Bill Stewart wrote:

> At 11:47 PM 11/11/98 +0100, Lucky Green wrote:
> >On Wed, 11 Nov 1998, Bill Stewart wrote:
> >> An interesting project would be a free low-volume anonymizer cgi for Apache,
> >> given the large number of current users and the much larger number
> >> of people who will run web servers once they have cable modems.
> >How do you do chaining with a cgi?
> 
> Looks easy enough to do, if a bit ugly, where "ugly" is somewhat equivalent to
> "build yet another local proxy widget to hide the gory details",
> though it's not really much uglier than doing a good anonymizer,
> and getting details like cookies and Java/script right are harder.
> 
> Define "encrypted" as "PGP or something like it".  It may be possible
> to gain some efficiencies by using SSL, but not critical.
> Take a cgi script and use POST to hand it an encrypted block containing:
> 	Response-Key:  
> 	HTTP Request, either vanilla URL or cgi URL with GET or POST data.
> 	Maybe some digicash
> 	Maybe some additional data
> The script fetches the URL, handing along any data,
> packages the response in HTTP reply format, and encrypts it with the 
> response key for the client proxy to unpack.
> 
> To chain these, have the client nest the requests, doing a
> URL that points to another anonymizer script and POSTs an encrypted block.
> Eventually you'll get to a non-anonymizing URL;
> it may be interesting to include any expected cookies in the block,
> so the client can hand them to the destination web server,
> or to gain some efficiencies by having the cgi script fetch
> any IMG requests, and sending a bundle of HTTP reply packets
> instead of just a single one.
> 
> The problems - 
> - How can easily can you break the system?  
> --- Does it leave too many open connections that can be followed?
> --- Does the decreasing size of the requests and
> 	increasing size of responses make it too easy to trace?
> --- What other obvious security holes are there?
> - Timeouts or other problems?
> - Denial of service attacks?
> 
> 				Thanks! 
> 					Bill
> Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
> PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639
> 


-- Lucky Green  PGP v5 encrypted email preferred.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Dr.G" 
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 23:01:26 +0800
To: "Igor Chudov @ home" 
Subject: Re: SIGH... NOT!! THC tainted oranges
In-Reply-To: <199811201619.KAA17451@manifold.algebra.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Fri, 20 Nov 1998, Igor Chudov @ home wrote:

> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:19:32 -0600 (CST)
> From: "Igor Chudov @ home" 
> To: "Dr.G" 
> Cc: ichudov@Algebra.Com, schear@lvcm.com, apf2@apf2.com,
>     cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
> Subject: Re: SIGH... NOT!! THC tainted oranges
> 
> Dr.G wrote:
> > 
> > On Thu, 19 Nov 1998, Igor Chudov @ home wrote:
> > 
> > > Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 14:51:58 -0600 (CST)
> > > From: "Igor Chudov @ home" 
> > > To: Steve Schear 
> > > Cc: apf2@apf2.com, cypherpunks@cyberpass.net, drg@pgh.org
> > > Subject: Re: SIGH... NOT!! THC tainted oranges
> > > 
> > > I would certainly appreciate pot yeast.
> > > 
> > 
> > I would certainly appreciate some pot.
> 
> Well, I never smoked pot because I do not like the idea of smoking
> anything and inhaling all this tar, soot, etc. 

That is true with a joint.  But a water pipe, like an aqua pipe,
removes 95% of all of that tar and other crap.  It is in the test results
envelope in every aqua pipe package.

That pipe is available in most cigar & pipe tobacco shops.

I saw my friends having
> real fun with pot and thought that pot bread or something like that
> would be great.
> 
> Perhaps I sound very ignorant...
> 

No, just somewhat uninformed, as most people are regarding cannabis.

You can vaporize pot and/or eat pot, for medicinal purposes.


-JG




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 01:36:53 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com
Subject: EMSEC Docs
Message-ID: <199811211701.MAA04223@camel14.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Thanks to JM's pointers we offer three related May 1998 
USAF docs on emissions security:

AFI 33-203 - Emissisions Security

   http://jya.com/afi33-203.htm  (61K)

AFSSI 7010 - Emission Security Assessments

   http://jya.com/afssi-7010.htm  (110K)

AFSSM 7011 - Emission Security Countermeasures Reviews

   http://jya.com/afssm-7011.htm  (515K)

Or, a zipped package of the three:

   http://jya.com/afemsec.zip  (146K)

While there's a fair amount in the last two docs about  
security for classified NONSTOP and HIJACK systems,
we'd welcome more detail to fill in the deleted parts.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mixmaster 
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 04:51:17 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <5bc6aa72d01810e8c3dc57cbcb82e8b6@anonymous>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



++Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 02:37:45 +0100
++From: Anonymous 
++To: cypherpunks@toad.com
++Subject: Re: none
++
++>>>> PureFUCK  fucking wrote:
++
++[a whole lot of fucking text deleted]
++
++  > i use Linux, GNUware, etc...
++
++[more fucking text deleted]
++
++don't *real* fucking linux hackers say `fscking'?
++just fucking curious... 
++
++-- NotTheBobMonger ;-)

hi NotTheBobMonger!

well, yes, you are absoFUCKINGlutely correct; we do indeed generally use "fsck" instead of "GO FUCK YOURSELF, bernardo terrado". 

i decided to make an exception for Bernardo "Go Fuck Yourself" Terrado though.

i generally say "FUCK" every April too though when the IRS *violently* tosses my fucking salad.

Regards,
 
-- PureFUCK  
-- finger tossmyfsckingsalad@irs.gov for my NSA approved, backdoored, and sold out by NAI, PGP key    




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 04:07:31 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981121134111.00b98100@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 09:13 PM 11/9/98 -0600, Jim Choate wrote:
>The two vertical plates above are not a capacitor. They simply represent
>some mechanism to hold charge, Leyden Jars for example.

A Leyden Jar _IS_ a capacitor, which _IS_ a mechanism to hold charge.
Capacitors don't have to come from a factory in plastic or ceramic packaging;
they're simply two (or more) conductive surfaces separated by insulation;
that insulation can be air (or probably even vacuum), though there are
much better insulators around, which commercial capacitors normally use.
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 04:08:16 +0800
To: Michael Motyka 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981121141105.00b9d9a0@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 10:56 AM 11/20/98 -0800, Michael Motyka wrote:
>>    "Everyone will have an average of five IP objects on their body by
>>    2000," he predicted. 
>This is just blue sky space cadet baby wish babble. AKA : typical
>marketing spew.   [....]
>Why would I voluntarily wear five independent tracking devices? So Louis
>Freeh can do telemetry and administer electroshock from Windows 2000?

A while back I stopped wearing a wristwatch because I was normally
carrying about 5 things that did or should know what time it was,
between pagers, cellphone, etc.  IP is less likely, but maybe it'll happen.

There's no reason to assume the IP devices are transmit-connected
to the outside world; if you've wearing or carrying multiple devices
that talk two each other, and CPU is nearly free, might as well
put a Layer 3 protocol on them as well as Layer 1 and Layer 2,
so your Gargoyle-Vision eyeglasses and left or right earpieces can operate
independently and wireless, regardless of whether you're carrying
the backpack microCray or just one or more of the beltpack or
pocketsized WhereAmIGPS receiver, VoicePDA, Sony WalkPerson, 
more flexible hearing aid, 1-way pager, or broadcast news receiver,
all of which can be smaller and more convenient because they
share the same output displays rather than each having their own,
as well as having the two-way IPcellphone, shoephone, email, and web,
and the one-or-two-way pickup of data feeds from museums, 
data-billboards, traffic reports, sidewalk-toll-collection, and air tax.

But even the two-way devices don't _have_ to support tracking you -
some of the Mobile IP protocols are better at that than others,
so the Feds may know that somebody with a DHCP address is tunneled
into the microcell on the streetcorner, but not who, or alternatively
they may be able to see the outside of the tunnel to trace you
but not see the insides.  After all, the military's happy to develop
location-hiding protocols, like onion routing, even if the FBI
and other parts of the military want traceability and eavesdropping.




>Anyone know a URL for Starion nee Comsec( 3DES telephones ) ?

If that's Eric Blossom's company, Altavista should know where to find it.
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Frederick Burroughs 
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 04:52:48 +0800
To: Cypherpunks 
Subject: "The FBI has become part of the heart, soul and fabric of America"
Message-ID: <365721A6.ACC013F4@shentel.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


The new Strategic Information an Operations Center is unveiled at FBI headquarters
in Washington, D.C. Counterterrorism, computer and violent crime units
have dibs on the center's resources. George Bush cut the ribbon and reporters
were given one last look at tax dollars before they cross over the event
horizon. Subject of this post is a quote from Attorney General Reno at
the unveiling.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPlate/1998-11/21/077l-112198-idx.html

Also, a press release from the DOJ (marked "Not For Release"), announcing
a photo op of the Attorney General with Brady "Instant Check" employees
at the FBI Complex at Clarksburg, WVa on thursday, Nov. 19. Photo op was
announced Nov. 18, media responses were required close of business the
same day. National Instant Check System for handgun, rifle and shotgun
sales begins operation on Nov. 30. http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pr/1998/November/553at.htm

I'm neutral on gun registration but the giant sucking sound from WVa
is bothering my chickens.
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 05:53:42 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: How to make non-neutral charge batteries... (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811212131.PAA16124@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 13:41:11 -0500
> From: Bill Stewart 
> Subject: Re: How to make non-neutral charge batteries...

> At 09:13 PM 11/9/98 -0600, Jim Choate wrote:
> >The two vertical plates above are not a capacitor. They simply represent
> >some mechanism to hold charge, Leyden Jars for example.
> 
> A Leyden Jar _IS_ a capacitor, which _IS_ a mechanism to hold charge.

No shit Bill.....

> Capacitors don't have to come from a factory in plastic or ceramic packaging;
> they're simply two (or more) conductive surfaces separated by insulation;
> that insulation can be air (or probably even vacuum), though there are
> much better insulators around, which commercial capacitors normally use.

No shit twice Bill, I make mine for my Tesla Coil out of copper sheeting and
BIG (3ft x 6ft) plates of glass that were scrapped from a constuction site.

Know what?

If you take the Layden Jar, put a charge on the inside plate and then remove
the OUTSIDE plate which is required to get it there, IT STILL HOLDS A
CHARGE.

Don't believe it? Try this:

Take one plane of glass and two copper sheets.

Place a glass between alternating copper layers thusly:

 Cu >    -----------------------
       ---------------------------    < glass
         ----------------------- < Cu

Then place a charge on it by using a standard battery.

Then remove the metal plates leaving just the glass.

Where do YOU believe the charge is stored, on the metal plates?

If so....BUUUUUZZZZZZZ....wrong answer.

If it were so we'd get a discharge if we connect the two metal sheets
together after removing from the glass plate, you won't.

If you put two metal plates on the glass and connect them again you'll
get a spark.

The charge RESTS ON THE SURFACE OF THE INSULATOR, the metal plates are there
so that we can get an even charge distribution QUICKLY across the insulating
dielectric. You could do it using just a couple of wires touching opposite
sides of the glass but it will take a whopping long time to get the charge
on the dielectric plate because it's an insulator and it has very few surface
electrons (one of the characteristics of an insulator) to help distribute it.

I'll let you in on another little secret.

If you take two Leyden Jars and charge the inside plates of the two jars
alternately and then connect them with a wire you'll get a spark clearly
demonstrating charge flow, even if the outside plates aren't connected.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 05:55:57 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Oh, a warning about playing with glass & charge....
Message-ID: <199811212138.PAA16195@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



If you do decide to play with charges stored on glass plates wear eye
protection because every once in a while the mechanical stress is more than
the glass can take and it will shatter.

One way you can do this is to go to your local video arcade and purchase one
of the glass sheets they use to cover their pinball machines. Then carry
that glass plate by the edge in your hand as you scuff your feet across a
nylon pile carpet (again wear safety glasses). The result about 1 out of 100
times, or if you've got lots of patience and can afford hours to scuff feet
on carpet, is that the glass plate will shatter with a report about
equivalent to a .22. Anyone watching should also wear eye protection as the
shards can go 20ft. or moe. It's best if you do this on a cold dry day.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 06:21:33 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Another charge question for you physics genius'es
Message-ID: <199811212202.QAA16288@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Get yourself a 10,000 mike electrolytic cap. I prefer one of the cylindrical
blue ones that have the 8-32 threaded terms on the top. Put a screw in each
terminal. Short the screws with commen copper connection wire. Let it sit
for several days to be sure there is no charge on it.

Then remove the wire and let it sit for a couple of weeks. Then I dare you
to touch it to your tongue.

The question is:

Where did that charge that just knocked the shit out of you come from?


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 06:26:39 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Error Condition Re: Another charge question for you physics genius'es (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811212205.QAA16339@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



I guess Bill's decided to play around with his filtering software....

Forwarded message:

> From cypherpunks@openpgp.net Sat Nov 21 16:02:59 1998
> From: cypherpunks@openpgp.net
> Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 16:58:50 -0500
> Message-Id: <199811212202.QAA16288@einstein.ssz.com>
> Errors-To: whgiii@openpgp.net
> Reply-To: cypherpunks@openpgp.net
> Originator: cypherpunks@openpgp.net
> Sender: cypherpunks@openpgp.net
> Precedence: bulk
> To: ravage@einstein.ssz.com
> Cc: whgiii@openpgp.net
> Subject: Error Condition Re: Another charge question for you physics genius'es
> X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
> X-Loop: ssz.com
> Content-Type: text
> X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23]
> X-Loop: openpgp.net
> 
> 
> We are sorry, but this system sensed the following request which may have been
> inadvertedly sent to this list:
> 
> GET YOURSELF A 10,000 MIKE ELECTROLYTIC CAP. I PREFER ONE OF THE CYLINDRICAL
> 
> If your posting was intentional, please accept our apologies and resend your
> mail message, making sure you do not include anything that may look like a
> request in the first line of the body of the actual message. If this was 
> indeed a request please resend it to listproc
> Your entire message
> is copied below.
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Get yourself a 10,000 mike electrolytic cap. I prefer one of the cylindrical
> blue ones that have the 8-32 threaded terms on the top. Put a screw in each
> terminal. Short the screws with commen copper connection wire. Let it sit
> for several days to be sure there is no charge on it.
> 
> Then remove the wire and let it sit for a couple of weeks. Then I dare you
> to touch it to your tongue.
> 
> The question is:
> 
> Where did that charge that just knocked the shit out of you come from?
> 
> 
>     ____________________________________________________________________
>  
>             Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
>             the right answers.
> 
>                                         Scully (X-Files)
> 
>        The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
>        Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
>        www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
>                            -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
>     --------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 07:28:34 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Error Condition Re: Another charge question for you physics genius'es (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811212307.RAA16588@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: "William H. Geiger III" 
> Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 17:05:10 -0500
> Subject: Re: Error Condition Re: Another charge question for you physics genius'es (fwd)

> In <199811212205.QAA16339@einstein.ssz.com>, on 11/21/98 
>    at 04:05 PM, Jim Choate  said:
> 
> >I guess Bill's decided to play around with his filtering software....
> 
> No, listproc has some internal filtering to prevent message loops, subscribe requests, error messages, ect from going out to the main list. Unfortunately these settings can not be adjusted in the list settings but are set at compile time for the software.
> 
> I have a shitload of error messages in my mailbox I have to sort through and figure out wether listproc is going to be too much of a PITA. I may have to get majordomo installed on the system and use that if this becomes too much of a problem (I really don't have time to be continually babysitting the system).
> 
> Ahhh the joy and fun of running a CP node. :)

:)

Good luck and apologies for my incorrect conclusion.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
            Lawyers ask the wrong questions when they don't want
            the right answers.

                                        Scully (X-Files)

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 08:09:45 +0800
To: Multiple recipients of list 
Subject: Re: Error Condition Re: Another charge question for you physics genius'es (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811212259.RAA015.03@whgiii>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



In <199811212307.RAA16588@einstein.ssz.com>, on 11/21/98 
   at 06:03 PM, Jim Choate  said:

>Forwarded message:

>> From: "William H. Geiger III" 
>> Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 17:05:10 -0500
>> Subject: Re: Error Condition Re: Another charge question for you physics genius'es (fwd)

>> In <199811212205.QAA16339@einstein.ssz.com>, on 11/21/98 
>>    at 04:05 PM, Jim Choate  said:
>> 
>> >I guess Bill's decided to play around with his filtering software....
>> 
>> No, listproc has some internal filtering to prevent message loops, subscribe requests, error messages, ect from going out to the main list. Unfortunately these settings can not be adjusted in the list settings but are set at compile time for the software.
>> 
>> I have a shitload of error messages in my mailbox I have to sort through and figure out wether listproc is going to be too much of a PITA. I may have to get majordomo installed on the system and use that if this becomes too much of a problem (I really don't have time to be continually babysitting the system).
>> 
>> Ahhh the joy and fun of running a CP node. :)

>:)

>Good luck and apologies for my incorrect conclusion.

FWIW when a message is rejected both the sender and myself should get CC'd a copy of the message and the reason for the reject so no messages should be "lost". Some of the filtering is nice, like those elmz blank subject error messages are filtered out by the program. Unfortunatly a "good" message gets filtered and I need to manually forward it to the list.

Since I don't have any subscribers yet this has not been a problem. :)

-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
---------------------------------------------------------------






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Paul H. Merrill" 
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 08:10:06 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re:
In-Reply-To: <199811212304.AAA22006@replay.com>
Message-ID: <365751AD.DE3C8DBF@ACM.Org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I am not sure which of these assholes I feel sorrier for, the asshole
with absolutely no clue about anything but fow to say
"Moahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah" or the dipwad that shows some
signs of being capable of detecting clues, but never learned how to
read.  While I do use Microsoft products, I am not a supporter of them.  

BTW if you (insist on placing words in my mouth, at least try not to be
such a chickenshit about it by thoroughly hiding yourself while
attempting to smear me all over.  --  and you missed the H.

Paul *H.* Merrill

PHM

Anonymous wrote:
> 
>  wrote:
> 
> >Moahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah
> >u STOOPID dickheads and fuckwads supporting
> >CUNTS like micro$oft or even working there.
> >FUCK YOU lousy cockroaches. I, the great
> >tormentor and terminator will stamp you
> >out and exterminate you like the pests you
> >are.
> >HaHaHaHaHaHa mothafuckaz.
> >You will all die and give way to a better
> >world, better people and better systems.
> >Long live Unix, Mac, Amiga and TERROR.
> 
> You are confusing the rest of us with Paul Merrill .
> Please remedy this situation immediately. Some of us do not support the
> Legion of Idiots as he does.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Phillip Hallam-Baker" 
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 13:49:35 +0800
To: "Vin McLellan" 
Subject: RE: Rivest Patent
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <019b01be15d3$818348a0$a3283480@games>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> >I have no idea if Watt had a patent on the steam governor. But I bet he
> >didn't try to take one out on Boyle's Law.

I seem to recall that he tried to patent the idea of feedback -
and was refused. He got the govenor patent though.

I think the biggest problems are not so much in the extensions
to the internationally accepted scope of patentability that the
US patent office has uniquely indulged in in the past but the
more recent accretions. Business models and experimental data
are now being allowed - what possible justification can there
be for giving the first person to mechanically sequence a piece
of DNA exclusive commercial rights to exploit that knowledge.

Ulitmately the US PTO has become an international object of
ridicule and contempt. The PTO operates under a condition of
moral hazard - it knows that it is likely to be sued for refusing
a patent but cannot be sued for incompetently (or for that
matter even maliciously granting one).

One enterprising chappie even patented PEM - using the RFC as
a reference in the claim! There are numerous examples of
similar negligence. I can provide several examples of US patents
issued with identical independent claims, in one case near 
identicaly worded.

Rather than debate the PTO's actions of 20 years ago it would seem
more appropriate to discuss their current actions. 

		Phill 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 07:45:04 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re:
Message-ID: <199811212304.AAA22006@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



 wrote:

>Moahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah
>u STOOPID dickheads and fuckwads supporting
>CUNTS like micro$oft or even working there.
>FUCK YOU lousy cockroaches. I, the great
>tormentor and terminator will stamp you
>out and exterminate you like the pests you
>are.
>HaHaHaHaHaHa mothafuckaz.
>You will all die and give way to a better
>world, better people and better systems.
>Long live Unix, Mac, Amiga and TERROR.

You are confusing the rest of us with Paul Merrill .
Please remedy this situation immediately. Some of us do not support the
Legion of Idiots as he does.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 23:24:00 +0800
To: prz@pgp.com
Subject: KRA on NAI/KRA
Message-ID: <199811221443.JAA09869@camel14.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Phil and Cabe,

For your info. Response will be very welcome.

John

---------

Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 05:27:31 -0800
To: pgp-users@joshua.rivertown.net, cryptography@c2.net
From: Dave Del Torto 
Subject: KRA on ADK vs KR, NAI membership
Cc: coderpunks@toad.com, ukcrypto@maillist.ox.ac.uk

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Summary:

(1) The Key Recovery Alliance will analyze the viability of PGP's ADK
    technology as an alternative to escrowing of keying material and intends
    to publish its position.

(2) Network Associates IS a member of the KRA as of July 2, 1998. Note that
    date is ~6 months after NAI represented itself as having withdrawn.

(3) Corporate contacts for KRA member-companies are not public information.
    I have also inquired about who the KRA contact person is at NAI.

   dave

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP 6.0
Comment: Get interested in computers -- they're interested in YOU!

iQA/AwUBNlgRApBN/qMowCmvEQLm7wCgx+7sBVgBQsXisQLJswx3w7a16Q0Anii3
XOzJzZxEMqd9YnMlz93U+iXX
=eHxw
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


................................. cut here .................................
My Inquiry to the KRA:

To: info@kra.org
Subject: request for information

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hello,

I have some questions about the KRA.

1. In your FAQ , you state that one of the
organization's goals is to:

  "Serve as a focal point for industry efforts to develop commercially
   acceptable solutions for recovery of encrypted information"

This seems to allow that there may be valid encrypted _data_ recovery
methods other than _key_ recovery using the KRA's "common key recovery
block" (still under discussion). However, I'm not aware of the KRA's public
position on the recovery of plaintext using cryptographically sound and
ethically responsible alternatives to the escrowing of keys in
organizational situations, e.g. PGP's Additional Decryption Key (ADK)
mechanism. What is the KRA's public position on PGP's ADK?

2. A public debate has recently arisen because the KRA website's member
roster indicates that Network Associates (NAI) is a member of the KRA. NAI
representatives, however, have publicly contraindicated this. Can you
clarify NAI's membership status in the KRA, specifically:

A. On what date (if ever) did NAI apply for membership in the KRA?
B. Is the KRA in possession of any evidence (letter, etc) to show that NAI
    was or is a member of the KRA?

C. If NAI was a member of the KRA at any time, on what date did a
    corporate officer of NAI formally withdraw NAI from the KRA, if ever?
D. Regarding KRA membership policy, if a company is not a member itself
    but acquires another company that is a KRA member, but, does
    this acquisition automatically confer membership status on the parent
    company, or is a formal request to "expand" the company's membership
    necessary?
E. If NAI was not a member of the KRA at the time of its Trusted
    Information Systems (TIS) acquisition, did the KRA receive a request
    from any NAI representative to expand TIS's membership to all of NAI?

3. KRA member companies are listed with their web URLs, but no individual
contact name/phone/email is provided for any of them. Can you supply a
complete listing of the designated contacts (corporate representatives) at
each of the KRA member organizations, should one want to discuss with them
their respective companies' KR positions or proposals? For example, if, in
fact, the KRA website is correct to list NAI as a member, then who is NAI's
official KRA representative?

Thank you in advance for your prompt clarification.

   dave

____________________________________________________________________________
Dave Del Torto        +1.415.334.5533          CSO & VP Security Consulting
                                Level Seven Digital Labs
PGP Key:  
Fingerprint: 9b29 031d 70de f566 e076 b108 904d fea3 28c0 29af / Size: 4096


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP 6.0

iQA/AwUBNlUMapBN/qMowCmvEQKt8wCg0i6ZZj1a6aL/TrzM/jqv4wKBEnoAoK4e
xkwtQCiBJDHuBUWFRzCRBA/K
=fg+B
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

................................. cut here .................................
The KRA's prompt reply (signed by me to indicate what I received):


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 06:31:50 -0800
To: Dave Del Torto 
From: Michael LoBue 
Subject: Re: request for information
Cc: Majdalany@kra.org, Bobbie@kra.org

Mr. Del Torto,

Thank you for your inquiry about a KRA member company. I am member of the
Alliance's secretariat staff addressing their business and administrative
needs. This puts me in a position to answer some of your questions directly.

Others I will pass along to appropriate Alliance member representatives for
response.

About the KRA's public position on PGP's ADK, obviously it was not
adequately addressed for your needs in the Alliance's existing materials. I
will ask a more appropriate and knowledgeable spokesperson to respond to
your questions and concerns.

Concerning Network Associates membership in the KRA, in response to your
question I have verified that our files contain an executed Membership
Agreement for Network Associates (dated July 2, 1998), as well as a properly
completed Application for Membership of that same date. 
As an aside, the KRA has retained our firm to manage their business and
administrative affairs. Our business is solely the management of industry
associations. Thus, we have no conflict of interest as our clients are the
'associations' themselves and not any of the individual member companies.
For the management of our client associations (currently 4) we employ
certain practice standards. One important practice area is the impartial
recognition of membership. Simply put, we exercise no discretionary judgment
about whether a company is a member or not. If a company completes the
required steps to become a member (execute an agreement, complete an
application and pay the appropriate dues) they become a member. In other
words, membership is binary...complete all the steps --> become a member;
omit any of these steps --> NOT a member.

Ever since the the Alliance was formally constituted as a California
nonprofit corporation (October 1997), rigorous application processes have
been in place. It is true that a number of companies, including NAI I
believe, were attending meetings under the name of the KRA during much of
1997. However, until the Alliance was formally constituted, involving
membership agreements, applications and payment of dues, it's not entirely
accurate to characterize those companies participating in 1997 as 'members'
of the Alliance. Indeed, some of this current 'public debate' about NAI's
relationship with the KRA goes back to their public statement that they
'withdrew' from the organization. The fact of the matter is that they simply
did not choose to become an actual member at the time the organization was
formally constituted. When it was reported that they withdrew, there was in
fact no entity from which to withdraw. 

Regarding the listing of individual representatives from member companies,
it is the Alliance's policy not to do this. For whatever it's worth, this is
a standard practice of industry associations. I am passing your message
along to the designated NAI representative and inviting him to respond. 

At the risk of stating the obvious, it is not uncommon for companies in any
industry, especially hi-tech, to have multiple opinions within their
management teams. And, to have these opinions expressed in public forums. It
has been my experience that it is dangerous to infer corporate and product
strategies from a companies membership in industry groups. Companies join
industry associations for all manner of reasons, not all of which they share
with the market. I'm not suggesting any thing other than the fact that our
industry makes for extremely "complex business" and there's no reason to
believe that this complexity of actions, strategies and motivations isn't
going to appear in a company's involvement in industry associations. 

Sorry for the length of this reply. However, it's clear that there are a
great many concerns behind your questions and I've tried to reach those
concerns. I hope this response has been useful to you. 
Regards,
Michael LoBue
KRA Secretariat Staff


  --end KRA response--


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP 6.0

iQA/AwUBNlWtuJBN/qMowCmvEQI6WACgv0CZt3KmzptfQxO/2FJ2aqAA/v8An1C6
+q4Uh8H0LuwMKpou5cVS14v6
=ssZt
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vortexia" 
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 21:36:29 +0800
To: 
Subject: Question about general patents
Message-ID: <003401be161a$2b4a4140$c9e431ce@vort.nis.za>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I was wondering... what is the current law in the United States about
patenting of software programs, and does anyone know where I can find out if
there are any standard international laws about the patenting of software.

I have products that I and the rest of my company have designed that we need
patented, unfortunatly the South African patent act reads like this:

(Republic of South Africa, Patents act no. 57 of 1978)
Section 2.2.1:

Anything which consists of a discovery; a scientific theory; a mathematical
concept; a literary, dramatic, musical or artistic work or any other
aesthetic creation, a scheme, rule or method for performing a mental act,
playing a game or doing business, a program for a computer; or the
presentation of information, is not regarded as an invention for the
purposes of the Patents Act.


If there is any other way to protect my software and my designs
internationally, or under any international treaties etc, and anyone knows
of such a way, please drop me an email, it would be much appreciated.

Cheers

Andrew Alston





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Jim Adler" 
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 07:56:21 +0800
To: 
Subject: Re: Securing data in memory (was "Locking physical memory (RAM) under Windows")
Message-ID: <002801be0ae3$cc8c3ff0$0a000080@choochoo>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



SCNSM 1.0 Beta, a non-swappable memory allocator for Windows 3.x/95/98, is
available and can be downloaded from

http://soundcode.com/content/download/products/scnsm/default.htm (docs)
http://soundcode.com/content/download/products/scnsm/scnsm10b.zip (source)

The SCNSM driver supports allocation of non-swappable memory on Windows
3.x/95/98. The principal design goal of SCNSM is to provide memory that will
not be swapped to disk, under any circumstances. Typically, security
applications require such memory to store private keys, passwords, and
sensitive intermediate results of cryptographic calculations.

SCNSM uses the same technique as allocating DMA buffers for hardware device
transfers.  The idea being that Windows doesn't swap DMA buffers and
therefore won't swap this buffer either.

The SCNSM source-code is copyrighted freeware.  The intent here is to end
the perennial nuisance of having sensitive security data swapped to disk
which undermines the public's confidence in commercial security products.
Please send any questions or bugs to me or support@soundcode.com.

Jim

================
Jim Adler
Soundcode, Inc.
www.soundcode.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: egnarr@rbc.edu
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 01:55:52 +0800
To: 
Subject: Looking for that Perfect Christmas Gift?
Message-ID: <199811221718.JAA26196@cyberpass.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Merry Christmas & Happy Holidays From the Staff at 
Mall-Cartay.com

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collection of unique gift expressions. We hope that you take a 
few moments to browse through our catalogs, we are sure you will 
find that special gift you've been looking for. Just copy & paste 
this address into your browser window:
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Collection or dream over Granlund's Sweet Temptations
(Chocolates & Truffles) & Marry Madeline's chocolate mud pies.  
These items are a sure bet for those of us with a perpetual sweet 
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most fragrant of all the conifers and are what only the highest 
quality wreaths are made from.

All ordered items have a guaranteed delivery date via direct 
shipment to your door no later than December 15, 1998.

We would like to thank you in advance for looking through the 
fine Christmas Collections that Mall-CARTAY.Com has assembled for 
you this Holiday Season.

We are sure you will find our experience and dedication to 
quality product and service a most favorable experience.  We are 
looking forward to being your first stop when looking for that 
special gift on any occasion.

Again thank you and have a joyous and happy holiday season.

The staff at Mall-Cartay.com
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: landon dyer 
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 01:58:44 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Hey, what does he know?
In-Reply-To: <000101be1631$ca7052c0$7fa795cd@big-boy.teletactics.com>
Message-ID: <4.1.19981122084708.00a283f0@shell9.ba.best.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 08:03 AM 11/22/98, you wrote:
>http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2168153,00.html

  well, no matter wh'appens, microsoft is going to come out of
this smelling like a rose


>"By the time the government's case is done, who knows how the industry will 
>look?" he said. "And furthermore, it could open the door to more government 
>regulation of the technology industry overall."

  putting on my favorite cryptoparanoia hat, over the next five years:


   o	MS gets what it wants -- more regulation, forcing it to stop
	selling OSs with computers.  instead, if you by an MS OS, you'll
	rent it annually.  ["please, janet, don't throw me in that briar
	patch!"]

	to do this, MS has to get intel to put crypto hooks in the
	wintel architecture; microcode burned-in at the chip fab that
	prevents MS operating systems from running on other h/w


   o	intel gets what it wants: no clones.  if you want to run linux
	on your AMD K-10, feel free.  if AMD wants to get in the game,
	they'll have to visit ft. meade


   o	the government gets what it wants, because the crypto hooks
	in the wintel architecture allow KRAP to proceed without any
	pesky legislation -- just behind-doors agreements with MS and
	intel

	a more cynical person than me might note that sun's "java OS"
	that would run anywhere would be a *lot* more difficult to
	suborn at the chip level


  i haven't figured out how the communications infrastructure is going
to be noodled.  maybe it doesn't have to be.  expect ipsec to die a
long, slow death -- a delaying tactic, the best kind for the feds,
because it prevents any sucessors from getting up a head of steam.  [i
don't know beans about the current status of ipsec]


  long about 2020 or so it'll be a federal offense to own an EPROM
burner, a processor with re-flashed microcode, an unlicensed logic
analyzer, or a copy of linux... :-)


  [stay tuned for a short story about the freedom fighters of 2025,
   hacking secure communications on copies of the last architectures
   known not to be compromised ("daddy, what's a PDP-10?"), running ITS
   on souped-up gigahertz pocket portables, getting packets through on
   covert channels involving the coat-tails of the (now ubiquitous) KRAP
   session key negotiations...]


-landon [re-lurking]




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Eric Murray 
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 01:57:50 +0800
To: vortexia@doxx.net
Subject: Re: Question about general patents
In-Reply-To: <003401be161a$2b4a4140$c9e431ce@vort.nis.za>
Message-ID: <199811221728.JAA09524@slack.lne.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Vortexia writes:
> 
> I was wondering... what is the current law in the United States about
> patenting of software programs, and does anyone know where I can find out if
> there are any standard international laws about the patenting of software.

You can't patent a computer program under US patent law either.
You can patent an algorithim or a method however.

-- 
Eric Murray          N*Able Technologies                    www.nabletech.com
(email:  ericm  at the sites lne.com or nabletech.com)     PGP keyid:E03F65E5




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 02:29:51 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Oh, a warning about playing with glass & charge....
In-Reply-To: <199811212138.PAA16195@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 1:38 PM -0800 11/21/98, Jim Choate wrote:
>If you do decide to play with charges stored on glass plates wear eye
>protection because every once in a while the mechanical stress is more than
>the glass can take and it will shatter.
>

And when you do your "...and then take away one of the copper plates"
experiment, you'll find that force is needed. Force times distance is
energy. The energy to pull one of the plates away equals the 0.5CV^2 energy
no longer stored in the capacitor.

The energy stored is not stored either on the plate or on the insulator. It
is in the electric field.

A free-standing single conductor can of course store a charge. And can of
course have an electric field.

Frankly, Jim, you no doubt have a lot of practical experience building
Tesla coils, Van de Graf generators, whatever.

But you also have what can only be described as "crankish" notions about
how electromagnetism works (pace last week's discussion of charges inside
conductors, a la Gauss), about prime numbers, and so on.

--Tim May

"I swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, just the way the President did."
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 03:46:43 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Oh, a warning about playing with glass & charge.... (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811221916.NAA18764@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 10:05:41 -0800
> From: Tim May 
> Subject: Re: Oh, a warning about playing with glass & charge....

> And when you do your "...and then take away one of the copper plates"
> experiment, you'll find that force is needed. Force times distance is
> energy. The energy to pull one of the plates away equals the 0.5CV^2 energy
> no longer stored in the capacitor.

This is true ONLY if the dielectric doesn't touch either plate and is simply
used to increase the storage capability (via Gauss' Law) of the capacitor
over an air gap type of the same physical structure. The reason you have
this force is the induced charge on the surface of the dielectric and the
electrostatic attraction this causes with the charge on the plate. If the
plate ACTUALY TOUCHES there is NO INDUCED CHARGE via Gauss's Law, it's a
REAL charge stored on the surface of the insulating dielectric and the plate
remains NEUTRALY charged.

Why is there no induced charged? Because as you place charge on the
conducting plate it induces a charge via Gauss' Law on the dielctric. Since
the metal has outer orbital electrons available (which an insulator doesn't)
the charge in the plate gets transported to the surface of the insulator and
bonds there (remember unlike charges attract) with the induced charge.

Why does the charge storage increase because of the dielectric? The
electrical moment of the atoms is greater than that of the air. This is
another reason the charge once deposited on the dielectric surface will
stay there when the plate is removed.

If you go back and look at the examples in your physics books that your
basing your position on you'll find that in EVERY case there is an air gap
between the plates and the dielectric. Remove the air gap and the behaviour
of the charge and hence it's explanation changes accordingly.

> The energy stored is not stored either on the plate or on the insulator. It
> is in the electric field.

Q: Where does the electric field come from Tim?

A: The charges (ie electrons and protons) that are sitting on the surface of
   the dielectric (where the di- comes from). The electric field strength is
   a measure of the wavelength of the photons those two contrary sets of
   particles are bouncing back and forth between themselves.

Q: Explain why the charge sitting on the surface of that dielectric will
   stay on the metal plate when the metal plate is removed. The metal plate
   is a conductor so as it is removed it effectively carries the charge of
   the part of the dielectric that it still retains contact with. Why would
   that e- choose to move TOWARD a ne- charge when it's sitting there with
   an opposite charge already in a minimum energy configuration?

A: It won't. To do so violates the minimal energy requirements of the
   system as well as the standard behaviour of charges (ie like repel,
   opposite attract).

Another experiment....

Try removing the metal foil when there is a charge and when there isn't.

You won't find an appreciable difference.

As to the energy required to remove the foil, yes force times distance is
energy and it's the energy requisite to overcome the inertia of the metal
foil. There is also a small additional force caused by Gauss' Law because the
the distance between the e- (for example) stored on the dielectric and the
metal plate will form a 'virtual' charge on the surface of the plate. However,
since the plate itself is neutral (by definition) there will be a contrary
charge on the opposite side. Hence, you won't loose a single coulomb of charge
to the metal plate. You can check this by using either an electronic charge
meter (1-800-OMEGA if you're interested) or you  can use a gold leaf
electrometer. If the charge varies as Tim claims then the angle between the
leaves should change (ie get smaller). It won't.

As to the force, the maximal force will occur when the plate is removed as a
single piece perpendicular to the surface of the dielectric. If you roll or
peel it off it will for all intents and purposes come free effortlessy
because you won't have to fight the electrostatic force.

                --------------------------------------  < Cu +
              ------------------------------------------
                --------------------------------------  < Cu -
              ------------------------------------------
                --------------------------------------  < Cu +
              ------------------------------------------
                --------------------------------------  < Cu -

NOTE: there is NO air gap between the glass and the Cu sheeting. I use
      normal old cinter blocks to press them together as tightly as I
      can.

Another experinment:

Build the stack as shown above and remove each later one at at time with
and without charge. Note the behaviour of the metal plate. It will tend to
go with the glass plate that is being removed. Because of induced charges
via Gauss' Law the foil will tend to go with the glass plate as it's
removed.

            ---------------------------------------------
             -------------------------------------------  Cu +
            ---------------------------------------------

As the top plate is removed the air gap will force a virtual charge to build
up on the surface of the foil. As a consequence an opposite and equal charge
will build up on the other side of the foil and it will be + and in
opposition to the + charge already sitting on the bottem glass plate. The
induced charge on the top of the Cu will be - and will be attracted to the +
charge on the bottem of the top plate.

This of course assumes you're using very thin foil. If it's very thick at
all you won't see this because of gravity. I tend to use very heavy foil so
that I don't get shocks from these various induced fields when I'm handling
the plates. Be sure to use heavy rubber gloves. Rubbermaid kitchen gloves
intended for industrial washing are sufficient unless you're going to use a
high voltage and charge.

Anybody who wants to understand the theory (despite Tim's claims to the
contrary) is welcome to check out:

Physics
Jay Orear
ISBN 0-02-389460-1
Chpt. 16, Electrostatics
pp. 308 - 338
in particular,
pp. 327, 16-6 Dielectrics


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
             Technology cannot make us other than what we are.

                                           James P. Hogan

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: holist 
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 06:27:11 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199811222154.NAA25646@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I'm sorry if this is gnawing at old bones for you, but I recently heard from
a rather paranoid, anonymous source here in Hungay that PGP was compromised,
Zimmermann sold out to the Feds, all versions except possibly early DOS
versions of PGP have back doors in them. 
He is also claiming that the CIA have already provided the backdoor-key to
PGP 5.0 to the Hungarian Secret Services. Is he being too paranoid, or what?

The reason I am asking cypherpunks, which I realise is not really a list
dedicated to PGP, about them, is that their credentials to my mind would be
sufficient to discredit. I have heard this rumour in sufficiently bogus
intellectual contexts before (Cyberconf8, if that rings a bell to anyone -
wouldn't blame you if it didn't) where it seemed blatantly obvious that it
was entirely unfounded, as the people who were spreading it could not
recognise code if they saw it, and seemed only an attempt to appear to be in
the know. This source, however, seems different.

Can I have some reassurance, please? And could you possibly suggest how
someone unable to check the code themselves could go about authenticating a
version of PGP? It is fated to become a rather important issue here soon.

thank you

holist




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Steve Schear 
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 09:06:46 +0800
To: Lucky Green 
Subject: Re: Free Email as Anonymous Remailer Re: NPR is at it again...
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981114002632.007caa30@idiom.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>On Sat, 14 Nov 1998, Bill Stewart wrote:
>
>> At 11:47 PM 11/11/98 +0100, Lucky Green wrote:
>> >On Wed, 11 Nov 1998, Bill Stewart wrote:
>> >> An interesting project would be a free low-volume anonymizer cgi for
>>Apache,
>> >> given the large number of current users and the much larger number
>> >> of people who will run web servers once they have cable modems.
>> >How do you do chaining with a cgi?
>>
>> Looks easy enough to do, if a bit ugly, where "ugly" is somewhat
>>equivalent to
>> "build yet another local proxy widget to hide the gory details",
>> though it's not really much uglier than doing a good anonymizer,
>> and getting details like cookies and Java/script right are harder.
>>

Could something like Hot Lava's proxy http://www.hotlava.com/software/ be a
good starting point?

--Steve






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: landon dyer 
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 07:46:56 +0800
To: riburr@shentel.net
Subject: Re: Hey, what does he know?
In-Reply-To: <199811222134.WAA14380@replay.com>
Message-ID: <4.1.19981122145914.00ad4a30@shell9.ba.best.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 05:28 PM 11/22/98 -0500, you wrote:
>
>
>
>Anonymous wrote:
>
>> At 09:23 AM 11/22/98 -0800, landon dyer wrote:
>>
>> >>  long about 2020 or so it'll be a federal offense to own an EPROM
>> >burner, a processor with re-flashed microcode, an unlicensed logic
>> >analyzer, or a copy of linux... :-)
>>
>> A CPLD, a compiler, a computer-controlled radio, a soldering iron... :-(
>
>Uncrippled DNA ~x~

  oh, yes.  "for the children..."  now it all makes sense  :-)


-landon

                          ''^``
                         ('O-O')
+--------------------oooO--(_)--Oooo---- -- - -  -
| landon dyer         ooo0               Some days it's just not worth
| landon@best.com     ( ( )   Oooo.       gnawing through the straps...
+----------------------\ (----( ) )------ --- -- - -  -
                        \_)    ) /
                              (_/




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 07:42:51 +0800
To: holist 
Subject: Re:
In-Reply-To: <199811222154.NAA25646@toad.com>
Message-ID: <199811222216.RAA002.10@whgiii>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



In <199811222154.NAA25646@toad.com>, on 11/22/98 
   at 01:54 PM, holist  said:

>I'm sorry if this is gnawing at old bones for you, but I recently heard
>from a rather paranoid, anonymous source here in Hungay that PGP was
>compromised, Zimmermann sold out to the Feds, all versions except
>possibly early DOS versions of PGP have back doors in them. 
>He is also claiming that the CIA have already provided the backdoor-key
>to PGP 5.0 to the Hungarian Secret Services. Is he being too paranoid, or
>what?

>The reason I am asking cypherpunks, which I realise is not really a list
>dedicated to PGP, about them, is that their credentials to my mind would
>be sufficient to discredit. I have heard this rumour in sufficiently
>bogus intellectual contexts before (Cyberconf8, if that rings a bell to
>anyone -
>wouldn't blame you if it didn't) where it seemed blatantly obvious that
>it was entirely unfounded, as the people who were spreading it could not
>recognise code if they saw it, and seemed only an attempt to appear to be
>in the know. This source, however, seems different.

>Can I have some reassurance, please? And could you possibly suggest how
>someone unable to check the code themselves could go about authenticating
>a version of PGP? It is fated to become a rather important issue here
>soon.

This is FUD.

Goto: http://www.pgpi.com

Download the source code to the version of PGP you want to run and compile it yourself. You are free to examine the code and insure that there are no "backdoors" in it.

This is the advantage of PGP over the various S/MIME products on the market. PGP source code is available for peer review, Netscape, Microsoft, (add your S/MIME vendor here) is not.

-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
---------------------------------------------------------------





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Frederick Burroughs 
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 06:54:00 +0800
To: Cypherpunks 
Subject: Re: Hey, what does he know?
In-Reply-To: <199811222134.WAA14380@replay.com>
Message-ID: <36589027.723BEA18@shentel.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





Anonymous wrote:

> At 09:23 AM 11/22/98 -0800, landon dyer wrote:
>
> >>  long about 2020 or so it'll be a federal offense to own an EPROM
> >burner, a processor with re-flashed microcode, an unlicensed logic
> >analyzer, or a copy of linux... :-)
>
> A CPLD, a compiler, a computer-controlled radio, a soldering iron... :-(

Uncrippled DNA ~x~




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 11:57:42 +0800
To: users@einstein.ssz.com (SSZ User Mail List)
Subject: Is Open Source safe? [Linux Weekly News]
Message-ID: <199811230327.VAA20072@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> X-within-URL: http://lwn.net/1998/1119/Trojan.html

>                                THE TROJAN HORSE
>                                        
>                                        
>     Bruce Perens 
>     
>    
>    There's a problem that could very badly effect the public perception
>    of Linux and Open Source. I want people to think about this, and
>    hopefully "head it off at the pass" before it happens.
>    
>    Perhaps it's already on your system today: a trojan-horse program. It
>    might be a game, or more likely a system utility. It's author uploaded
>    it to an FTP archive, where it was then picked up by your favorite
>    Linux distribution, who wrote it onto the CD-ROM that you bought. It
>    works just fine, but hidden away in the program is a special feature:
>    a secret back-door past your system's security.
>    
>    Perhaps the author of this attack is tired of hearing about what great
>    hackers we are, and wants to take us down a notch. He's patient - he
>    will wait until his program is distributed to tens of thousands of
>    Linux systems before he says a word. But say is what he'll do - he's
>    not really interested in breaking into your system. What he wants is
>    the publicity, bad publicity for us, and lots of it. We've left the
>    gates open for this trojan horse. Let's talk about how to close them,
>    and hope we have enough time to solve this problem before our
>    reputation is hurt.

[mnoga tekct oodalyaty]


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
             Technology cannot make us other than what we are.

                                           James P. Hogan

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 06:05:56 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Hey, what does he know?
Message-ID: <199811222134.WAA14380@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 09:23 AM 11/22/98 -0800, landon dyer wrote:

>>  long about 2020 or so it'll be a federal offense to own an EPROM
>burner, a processor with re-flashed microcode, an unlicensed logic
>analyzer, or a copy of linux... :-)

A CPLD, a compiler, a computer-controlled radio, a soldering iron... :-(











  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 12:47:21 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Wired: AOL selling E-Stamps
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981122223921.00c0f550@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



http://www.wired.com/news/news/business/story/16374.html

				AOL's E-Stamp of Approval
                        Wired News Report 

                        12:20 p.m.  19.Nov.98.PST
                        Is it time for stamp collectors to go online? 

                        America Online (AOL) and E-Stamp, an online
                        postage firm, said on Thursday they will make
                        Internet postage service available to customers of
                        AOL, CompuServe, AOL.COM, and AOL's Digital
                        City. 

                        AOL and E-Stamp's service will allow customers to
                        securely purchase postage online and print
                        "digital stamps" on envelopes, labels, or
                        documents using their personal computer and a
                        standard printer. Customers must first install
                        E-Stamp software. They can then buy postage by
                        credit card, electronic fund transfer, or check. 

				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Vlad Stesin 
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 13:08:13 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: Is Open Source safe? [Linux Weekly News]
In-Reply-To: <199811230327.VAA20072@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I don't quite understand the logic behind this. The fact that the
program's source is available is itself a proof that there are no
backdoors. Anyone can read the source code and make sure it's OK.

However, this argument does hold against non-OSS. It can even be used to
promote Linux (and other free open-source operating systems), since
someone could distribute some win32 trojans on download.com, tucows.com
and others.

Regards,
--
Vlad Stesin 
vstesin@cs.mcgill.ca

On Sun, 22 Nov 1998, Jim Choate wrote:

> 
> Forwarded message:
> 
> > X-within-URL: http://lwn.net/1998/1119/Trojan.html
> 
> >                                THE TROJAN HORSE
> >                                        
> >                                        
> >     Bruce Perens 
> >     
> >    
> >    There's a problem that could very badly effect the public perception
> >    of Linux and Open Source. I want people to think about this, and
> >    hopefully "head it off at the pass" before it happens.
> >    
> >    Perhaps it's already on your system today: a trojan-horse program. It
> >    might be a game, or more likely a system utility. It's author uploaded
> >    it to an FTP archive, where it was then picked up by your favorite
> >    Linux distribution, who wrote it onto the CD-ROM that you bought. It
> >    works just fine, but hidden away in the program is a special feature:
> >    a secret back-door past your system's security.
> >    
> >    Perhaps the author of this attack is tired of hearing about what great
> >    hackers we are, and wants to take us down a notch. He's patient - he
> >    will wait until his program is distributed to tens of thousands of
> >    Linux systems before he says a word. But say is what he'll do - he's
> >    not really interested in breaking into your system. What he wants is
> >    the publicity, bad publicity for us, and lots of it. We've left the
> >    gates open for this trojan horse. Let's talk about how to close them,
> >    and hope we have enough time to solve this problem before our
> >    reputation is hurt.
> 
> [mnoga tekct oodalyaty]
> 
> 
>     ____________________________________________________________________
>  
>              Technology cannot make us other than what we are.
> 
>                                            James P. Hogan
> 
>        The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
>        Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
>        www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
>                            -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
>     --------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 14:28:33 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: update.403 (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811230600.AAA20501@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 11:40:29 -0500 (EST)
> From: physnews@aip.org (AIP listserver)
> Subject: update.403

> CLUSTERING AND COLLAPSE IN GRANULAR MATERIAL. 

> DOES CHAOS AFFECT THE COURSE OF AN ARMS RACE? 
> Yes, it may, particularly when great disparities exist between two
> nations' economies (as is the case with the US and Iraq), according
> to a new mathematical model developed by researchers in Japan
> (Mitsuo Kono, Chuo University, kono@fps.chuo-u.ac.jp, 011-81-
> 426-74-4161).  In an attempt to mathematically model the feedback
> between two adversarial nations as each builds up arms stocks,
> British scientist Lewis F. Richardson published in 1949 a well-
> known set of equations with variables describing such things as a
> nation's military spending levels and parameters quantifying factors
> such as a nation's internal pressure against military spending.  This
> model suffered from shortcomings, most notably that its linear
> equations provided all too predictable results; critics noted that
> many arms races spiral unpredictably out of control.   In the
> Japanese researchers' model a nation's reaction to an enemy's
> weapons buildup is not automatically to build more weapons but is
> instead a function of the difference in weapons and military
> spending between two nations.  This approach leads to more
> realistic nonlinear differential equations which quantify concepts
> normally unknown to physics, concepts such as fear, threat,
> grievance, and fatigue.  Their model shows an arms race can
> progress in a mathematically chaotic fashion when the economic
> situation of the two countries is different, but is more predictable
> when the economies are more comparable (Tomochi and Kono in
> the journal Chaos, December 1998.)

> CORRECTION.  A typo affecting a single letter can completely
> reverse the meaning of a sentence. Thus in Update 402 in the
> sentence "It is not thought that physics does differentiate between
> the forward or backward movement of time," "not" should be
> changed to "now."


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
             Technology cannot make us other than what we are.

                                           James P. Hogan

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 14:26:08 +0800
To: holist 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981123002423.00c18210@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 01:54 PM 11/22/98 -0800, holist wrote:
>I'm sorry if this is gnawing at old bones for you, but I recently heard from
>a rather paranoid, anonymous source here in Hungay that PGP was compromised,
>Zimmermann sold out to the Feds, all versions except possibly early DOS
>versions of PGP have back doors in them. 
>He is also claiming that the CIA have already provided the backdoor-key to
>PGP 5.0 to the Hungarian Secret Services. Is he being too paranoid, or what?

Pure disinformation.   It does have a few locally-customized twists to it.
As another poster said, you can get the source from www.pgpi.com,
check it out yourself, and compile it yourself.

There are some versions that have features allowing you to encrypt
data to multiple recipients, and some versions allow you to set this
with one or more recipients as the default (e.g. yourself,
or your corporate security officer.)  But you do not need to set this.

There are also some design bugs in the early DOS versions that make
them weaker than the later DOS versions or the newer versions,
so you don't want to use anything before 2.5 anyway.
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 14:47:33 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: [spam 03.92/10.00 -pobox] Re: Goldbach's Conjecture - a question about prime sums of odd numbers...
In-Reply-To: <199811190522.XAA01164@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981123012140.00bab940@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 12:20 AM 11/19/98 -0600, Eric Cordian wrote:
>> Is there any work on whether odd numbers can always be represented as the
>> sum of primes? 
>
>Goldbach originally suggested that all numbers greater than two could be
>expressed as the sum of three primes, if one tossed in 1 as a prime
>number.  Euler pointed out that this was equivalent to even numbers
>greater than two being expressed as the sum of two primes. 
>
>This seemed a somewhat cleaner formulation, and it was adopted.

well, you can express any odd number >= 7 as
the sum of 3 + an even number, so if Goldbach's conjecture is true,
then three primes are enough for the odd natural numbers
except 1, which is a special case, and 3 and 5 which are prime anyway.
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Martin Minow 
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 02:39:43 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Is Open Source safe? [Linux Weekly News]
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Frank O'Dwyer  opines:
>
>Yes it does, but not quite in the same way. For example, I believe that
>in days of yore some attackers managed to insert a back door into some
>DEC OS by breaking into the coding environment (I don't recall the
>details, does anyone else?).

 describes how the inventors
of Unix inserted a backdoor into the Unix login program. It's well
worth reading. However, there is no indication that this trojan
horse ever shipped to customers.

>So in other words, not only _could_ this
>happen with non-OSS, it _has_ happened, and no doubt it happens
>reasonably often.

I doubt it.

Martin Minow
minow@pobox.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 01:11:07 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Issues of crypto, politics, & chaos [sciencedaily.com]
Message-ID: <199811231622.KAA21494@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> X-within-URL: http://www.sciencedaily.com/news/order_chaos.htm

>    Posted 10/8/98
>    Encryption Advance For Secure Global Communications 
>    Scientists at the Department of Energy's Los Alamos National
>    Laboratory have achieved a significant advance in demonstrating the
>    viability of an unbreakable encryption scheme for transmitting secure
>    communications to and from satellites.
>    
>    Posted 9/9/98
>    Mathematicians Prove That Group Decisions Can Be Impossible To Predict
>    For several years, some political scientists and others have argued
>    that group decisions such as elections are impossible to
>    anticipate-even if the preferences of the voters are well established
>    and the decision-making rules are set. Now there's a mathematical
>    proof to back that proposition.
>    
>    Posted 9/4/98
>    Chaos-Based System That "Evolves" Answers May Be Alternative To
>    Current Computers
>    A revolutionary new computing technique that uses a network of chaotic
>    elements to "evolve" its answers could provide an alternative to the
>    digital computing systems widely used today. Described for the first
>    time in the September 7 issue of Physical Review Letters this
>    "dynamics-based computation" may be well suited for optical computing
>    using ultra-fast chaotic lasers and computing with silicon/neural
>    tissue hybrid circuitry.

[text deleted]


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
             Technology cannot make us other than what we are.

                                           James P. Hogan

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Burnes - Denver 
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 02:43:29 +0800
To: "Frank O'Dwyer" 
Subject: Re: Is Open Source safe? [Linux Weekly News]
In-Reply-To: <36595F29.C39B997A@brd.ie>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Mon, 23 Nov 1998, Frank O'Dwyer wrote:

> 
> Vlad Stesin wrote:
> > I don't quite understand the logic behind this. The fact that the
> > program's source is available is itself a proof that there are no
> > backdoors. Anyone can read the source code and make sure it's OK.
> 
> Anyone can, but does anyone? Also be aware that most people don't
> compile from source--it would be easy to doctor the source, compile a
> binary, and ship the trojan binary alongside the unmodified source.
>  

True enough.  Groups that produce software that play a critical role in 
security almost always sign the binaries.  

> Yes it does, but not quite in the same way. For example, I believe that
> in days of yore some attackers managed to insert a back door into some
> DEC OS by breaking into the coding environment (I don't recall the
> details, does anyone else?).

Break into the coding environment?  Does that mean they broke into
the VMS development shop?

> In short, this is a real problem, but it seems to be that the likes of
> Linux ought to be able to leverage its decentralised and parallel
> development model to address it in a more comprehensive manner than any
> closed centralised model could ever hope to achieve. "Many eyes"
> _should_ make for defence in depth against this--but it does look like
> some process is needed, and the Linux folk will need some kind of
> argument to convince people that it works. 

Already proven.  The emergent behavior of the Linux development model
does not need centralized process to coordinate it.  People who had
access to the source and were aware of the teardrop attack hacked a
patch to it almost immediately.  The patch was widely available the
next day.  How long did it take for microsoft?

jim




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Steve Mynott 
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 20:44:08 +0800
To: holist 
Message-ID: <19981123115415.A26238@tightrope.demon.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Sun, Nov 22, 1998 at 01:54:42PM -0800, holist wrote:
> I'm sorry if this is gnawing at old bones for you, but I recently heard from
> a rather paranoid, anonymous source here in Hungay that PGP was compromised,
> Zimmermann sold out to the Feds, all versions except possibly early DOS
> versions of PGP have back doors in them. 

This is probably bullshit since the source is available to open view...

However, given that few have the technical skills to audit this source
I wonder how easy it would be to insert a backdoor and what form it
would take?

-- 
1024/D9C69DF9 steve mynott steve@tightrope.demon.co.uk http://www.pineal.com/

substitute "damn" every time you're inclined to write "very"; your
editor will delete it and the writing will be just as it should be.
        -- mark twain




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Gillogly 
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 05:37:43 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Is Open Source safe? [Linux Weekly News]
Message-ID: <3659C59C.9979534D@acm.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Frank O'Dwyer writes:
>                                       Here we're talking about
> deliberately inserted back doors. Those can get extremely nasty, and may
> be unpatchable. Examples include "data kidnap" (encrypting the target's
> information in situ and demanding a ransom for the decryption key), and
> "data cancer" (slow corruption of the target's information, ensuring
> that the backups are also corrupted). ...  I haven't heard of any real
> examples of such attacks, but that's not especially comforting.

The "data kidnap" scenario was tried with the "PC CYBORG (AIDS) virus"
(actually a Trojan) scare of 1989, where a disk with a database
application was sent to a number of recipients.  I think it scrambled
the FAT.  It gave a post office box in Panama for the ransom payments.  

-- 
	Jim Gillogly
	Highday, 3 Foreyule S.R. 1998, 20:23
	12.19.5.12.16, 8 Cib 9 Ceh, Fourth Lord of Night




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: radinfo@real.com
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 06:17:47 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: RealSystem G2 Ships
Message-ID: <199811232054.MAA10652@fmaila1.real-net.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




TO REAL DEVELOPER PROGRAM MEMBERS

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for purchase and production deployment!
 
Built from a completely new codebase, RealSystem G2 is the result of 2
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RealSystem G2 incorporates revolutionary advances, like SureStream, RealVideo
G2 (including compelling new video technology from Intel Corporation),
RealAudio G2 and SMIL support.

GET STARTED WITH REALSYSTEM G2 TODAY!
· Download RealServer G2
Members of the Real Developer Program can pick up a copy of the RealSystem G2
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· Download RealSystem G2 Authoring Kit and get started producing content
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Find out the latest about RealSystem G2 at
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production tools that will make getting started even easier, and provide
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Check out our new tools including RealProducer G2, RealProducer Plus G2.
 
· The free RealProducer G2 creates basic RealAudio and RealVideo and is
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· Streams the best quality content to all connection speed allows and
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· Allows content creators to custom tailored their content by allowing exact
data rates specification, Codec selection, and video frame rate.


To learn more about RealSystem G2 and to see the latest applications, visit
our Technology Showcase at
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Real Developer Program 
RealNetworks, Inc.
Visit the Devzone Today!
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-----Feature Detail-------
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+ Support for SMIL and advanced streaming media datatypes, RealText, RealPix,
and RealFlash allowing you to create rich multimedia presentations. 

  + The ability to serve native datatypes like AU, MPEG, AIFF, WAV, VIV and
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    + An extensible, Standards-based, open architecture, with support for
SMIL, RTSP, and IP Multicast.

  + Advanced Networking, featuring Caching support, Splitting, Firewall
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---------------------------------------------
For information about this e-mail including how to subscribe or unsubscribe
from future announcements, please visit:

http://www.real.com/mailinglist




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Frank O'Dwyer" 
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 21:49:11 +0800
To: Vlad Stesin 
Subject: Re: Is Open Source safe? [Linux Weekly News]
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <36595F29.C39B997A@brd.ie>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Vlad Stesin wrote:
> I don't quite understand the logic behind this. The fact that the
> program's source is available is itself a proof that there are no
> backdoors. Anyone can read the source code and make sure it's OK.

Anyone can, but does anyone? Also be aware that most people don't
compile from source--it would be easy to doctor the source, compile a
binary, and ship the trojan binary alongside the unmodified source.
 
> However, this argument does hold against non-OSS. 

Yes it does, but not quite in the same way. For example, I believe that
in days of yore some attackers managed to insert a back door into some
DEC OS by breaking into the coding environment (I don't recall the
details, does anyone else?). So in other words, not only _could_ this
happen with non-OSS, it _has_ happened, and no doubt it happens
reasonably often.

In short, this is a real problem, but it seems to be that the likes of
Linux ought to be able to leverage its decentralised and parallel
development model to address it in a more comprehensive manner than any
closed centralised model could ever hope to achieve. "Many eyes"
_should_ make for defence in depth against this--but it does look like
some process is needed, and the Linux folk will need some kind of
argument to convince people that it works. 

Perhaps a start would be for individuals to essentially certify software
that they had personally checked, offering repositories with detached
signatures for specific versions of software compiled in a certain way.
Software that hadn't yet been certified or which didn't match sufficient
independent signatures could then be referred to a human for checking,
and if it was OK then that version of the software could also be signed.
This would also serve as a highly visible "yes, we have checked this for
back doors" statement..."and here are 1,000s of signatures to prove it"
:)

Cheers,
Frank O'Dwyer.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 21:25:15 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Reptilian Nazi $oftware
Message-ID: <199811231300.OAA23807@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



While playing Spin the Whiskey Bottle with my dog, an
entirely accidental motion caused a search engine to 
barf this up:

http://www.letr.com/swat.html

"Here's the ultimate 'SWAT' program - from intelligence 
gathering to incident command - with add on modules 
for tracking , training and performance evaluations !

...

"Complete detailed information on suspect description 
and history Information includes: 

  o Religious and cultural background 
  o political affiliations
  o psychological and medical disorders
  o likes and dislikes
  o family members
  o close relationships
  o employer and co-workers
  o motivational factors

"Designed by Sergeant Gary Rovarino
LASD SWAT Team Leader"

(is _anyone_ taking names???)

I _thought_ I also saw, but can't be sure:

"We get almost as high writing and selling this software
as our users do kicking in doors and shooting greasers in
the back!" - Trembley Nerdwater, programmer

[A Deep Gargling Source To Be Named Later reveals that when 
they get the foreign language versions of this software 
working, sales to Third World Nazi ButtFucktatorships 
should almost rival sales to police forces in U.S. and 
European Nazi ButtFucktatorships.]

Optional modules include:

  o Instant Download From Deathlist Computer

    For those slow nights when the squad is in danger
    of losing its edge. Includes Random Hit Selector,
    Semiautomatic Route Selector, and optional route
    selection by pizza and titty bar locations.

  o Family Member and Associates Deathlist Upload

    For tidying up those loose ends. New data found on
    or near the perp's body can be entered in the field.

  o Special OKC Witness List

    For units with assigned responsibility for keeping
    the lid on _that_ one! Includes on line link to
    DOJ, FBI, ATF and specially assigned judges for
    authorization of special field actions against
    witnesses who have suddenly recovered their memories,
    gotten religion, have been reading unauthorized
    radical literature such as the U.S. "Constitution."
    Remember our motto, "Loose Lips Can Always Be Stapled
    Together."

  o Waco Tutorial

    Learn from the masters! No prisoners, no survivors!
    No bad press! Includes tips on obscuring causes of 
    death by agglutinating bodies together! Confound
    medical examiners by combining pieces of perps to
    make remains that have been shot, gassed, burned,
    asphyxiated, strangled, decapitated, disemboweled,
    etc.!

  o Portable Press Dossier

    Be able to pull up the files of inquisitive reporters
    in real time! Get instant and unprecedented 
    cooperation!

Buy now and get testosterone supplements* at no additional
charge! You must provide your own adrenalin. Remember! The
rush is not on the radio -- it's going through the door!

*suppositories only

ButtFuckMonger




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 07:31:55 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Goldbach's Conjecture - the various definitions (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811232253.QAA22907@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 06:03:43 +0100
> From: "Albert P. Franco, II" 
> Subject: Re: Goldbach's Conjecture - the various definitions

> Math works because in most (we would like to say all...) cases it is WELL
> DEFINED. Subtle differences in the definition of a problem can drastically
> alter the solution.

Absolutely.

> Goldbach's Conjecture states that any EVEN OR ODD
> number can be expressed by a sum of three primes.

No, Goldbach's says specificaly EVEN numbers.

> lose sight of the domains of the two statements. He never stated that ODD
> numbers could be expressed as sums of TWO primes.

Nobody said he did.

> It is very important to get all of the information assembled before running

Absolutely.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
             Technology cannot make us other than what we are.

                                           James P. Hogan

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 08:04:08 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Goldbach & Sum's of two primes to odd numbers
Message-ID: <199811232323.RAA23119@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Somebody explain how to odd numbers added together make a third odd number.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
             Technology cannot make us other than what we are.

                                           James P. Hogan

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 08:02:39 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Securing data in memory (was "Locking physical memory (RAM) under Windows") (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811232327.RAA23206@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: "Jim Adler" 
> Subject:  Re: Securing data in memory (was "Locking physical memory (RAM) under Windows")
> Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 22:47:48 -0800

> SCNSM 1.0 Beta, a non-swappable memory allocator for Windows 3.x/95/98, is
> available and can be downloaded from

[text deleted]

> The SCNSM driver supports allocation of non-swappable memory on Windows
> 3.x/95/98. The principal design goal of SCNSM is to provide memory that will
> not be swapped to disk, under any circumstances. Typically, security
> applications require such memory to store private keys, passwords, and
> sensitive intermediate results of cryptographic calculations.

[text deleted]

Sounds cool, but I have a couple of questions:

1.  Is it OpenSource?

2.  I assume since it never swaps to disk the memory requirements for the
    computer are large. What is the minimum suggested if one runs say
    5 apps that each require 16M each, 5*16M & OS overhead? And what is
    the suggested OS overhead with no swap to disk?

    (OK, that last one might be a 3rd question)


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
             Technology cannot make us other than what we are.

                                           James P. Hogan

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 10:38:03 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: A tad more on Goldbach's...
In-Reply-To: <199811240103.TAA23512@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 5:03 PM -0800 11/23/98, Jim Choate wrote:
>I figure I'll drop a couple of more points on this since nobody else seems to
>have twigged to them....

Your reputation capital has already dropped so many points that I'm not
sure you _can_ drop a couple of more points.

Please take your bizarre theories about Goldbach's Conjecture to some
mathematics journals and see if you can get published. Writing dozens of
crankish articles about your theories about prime numbers, and tiling
triangles, and such is just plain eccentric.

(Eccentric curve cryptography?)

And basing big chunks of your argument on why 1 or 2 or whatever should or
should not be defined as prime is just plain sophistry.

Ditto for your bizarre theories about how electric fields work, about how
charges inside conducting spheres don't follow Gauss's Law, and other
crankish theories about electricity.

Give it a rest.

--Tim May

"I swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, just the way the President did."
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 03:24:49 +0800
To: fod@brd.ie
Subject: how to insert plausibly deniable back-doors (Re: Is Open Source safe? [Linux Weekly News])
In-Reply-To: <36595F29.C39B997A@brd.ie>
Message-ID: <199811231837.SAA14774@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




I reckon an easy and plausibly deniable way to insert a backdoor is to
purposefully make the software vulnerable to buffer overflow (the good
old unchecked gets(3) type of bug, of which a new one is found weekly
in sendmail).

Then send the target an encrypted spam or whatever which their program
decrypts, and in the process exploits the buffer overflow and allows
you to execute arbitrary code, which you use to patch the binary, or
install a keyboard sniffer or whatever.  Works better with DOS/windows
-- with no protection -- you could format the disk if you wanted.
unix a bit more tricky, but doable nonetheless -- enough OS security
vulnerabilities to send along a program to obtain root, and then patch
the binary.

Nice and deniable too, if someone finds the vulnerability, you go
`whoops!' and remove it.

I spent a few hours examining pgp263i for buffer overflow
opportunities, but found no exploitable opportunities in that quick
search.

Areas where things almost work from offerflow is fixed size buffer for
storage of -----BEGIN BLAH----- lines, and I did wonder about the
decompression code also -- quite hairy, and undefined behaviour may
just be obtainable with the right carefully corrupted message sent in.

This exercise ought to be done on pgp5.x and 6.x.  I have spent some
time looking at the code in general -- yuck -- OO overdone, very hard
to read due to the many many levels of inheritence and so on, you
really need to run it under a debugger to even figure out what would
happen half the time.  I think I preferred pgp263 for readability and
clarity.  Werner Koch's GNUPG gets an A+ for coding clarity also --
way better than either pgp2.x and pgp5.x.

Adam




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Frank O'Dwyer" 
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 03:55:39 +0800
To: Martin Minow 
Subject: Re: Is Open Source safe? [Linux Weekly News]
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3659B025.756B888A@brd.ie>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Martin Minow wrote:
> Frank O'Dwyer  opines:
> >
> >Yes it does, but not quite in the same way. For example, I believe that
> >in days of yore some attackers managed to insert a back door into some
> >DEC OS by breaking into the coding environment (I don't recall the
> >details, does anyone else?).
> 
>  describes how the inventors
> of Unix inserted a backdoor into the Unix login program. It's well
> worth reading. However, there is no indication that this trojan
> horse ever shipped to customers.

No, that is a different incident. These were external attackers who
managed to patch the source, and as far as I know it did ship. Could be
an urban myth I guess, but it's clearly a plausible attack.

> >So in other words, not only _could_ this
> >happen with non-OSS, it _has_ happened, and no doubt it happens
> >reasonably often.
> 
> I doubt it.

OK, "reasonably often" is overstating it, perhaps :) 

Cheers,
Frank O'Dwyer.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 09:33:37 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: A tad more on Goldbach's...
Message-ID: <199811240103.TAA23512@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



I figure I'll drop a couple of more points on this since nobody else seems to
have twigged to them....

Goldbach's original conjecture is crap. There is NO way that 3 odd numbers
will ever equal an even number. Odd + Odd is Even. Even + Odd is Odd. Fermat
was a hell of a lot more charitable to the original assertion than I would
have been.

Goldbach's existing conjecture can be worded another way:

Any even number may be represented by the sum of 3 even numbers provided two
of the numbers are 1 less than a prime and we add 2.

It's obvious that an even number can always be the sum of other even
numbers, it's axiomatic. The question actualy is:

Is the set of even numbers whose members are one less than the corresponding
member of the primes sufficient, when added to 2, to sum to all the even
numbers.

As far as I can find nobody has written a lot on patterns of even numbers 1
less than the odds. There's not even a name for the set that I can find.

As to somebodies assertion that an odd number can be represented by the sum
of two odds, better study your math a tad better. Odd + Odd is *always*
Even, never Odd.

Happy Thanksgiving!


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
             Technology cannot make us other than what we are.

                                           James P. Hogan

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Frank O'Dwyer" 
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 03:59:32 +0800
To: Jim Burnes - Denver 
Subject: Re: Is Open Source safe? [Linux Weekly News]
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3659B24C.2E121981@brd.ie>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Burnes - Denver wrote:
> Already proven.  The emergent behavior of the Linux development model
> does not need centralized process to coordinate it.  People who had
> access to the source and were aware of the teardrop attack hacked a
> patch to it almost immediately.  The patch was widely available the
> next day.  How long did it take for microsoft?

Agreed, but that's a different issue. Here we're talking about
deliberately inserted back doors. Those can get extremely nasty, and may
be unpatchable. Examples include "data kidnap" (encrypting the target's
information in situ and demanding a ransom for the decryption key), and
"data cancer" (slow corruption of the target's information, ensuring
that the backups are also corrupted). Quickly patching the software that
delivers those attacks isn't anough--you need a defence against it being
introduced and activated in the first place. I haven't heard of any real
examples of such attacks, but that's not especially comforting.

Cheers,
Frank O'Dwyer.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 10:39:12 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: A tad more on Goldbach's... (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811240217.UAA23902@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 18:06:11 -0800
> From: Tim May 
> Subject: Re: A tad more on Goldbach's...

> Ditto for your bizarre theories about how electric fields work, about how
> charges inside conducting spheres don't follow Gauss's Law, and other
> crankish theories about electricity.

Bullshit Tim. I NEVER said that. You and the other physics geniuses who
stated that an internal charge on a conducting sphere doesn't get propogated
out to the surface of the sphere are the ones who are claiming that Gauss'
Law doesn't apply.

Don't give me credit for your stupidity.

You give it a rest.



    ____________________________________________________________________
 
             Technology cannot make us other than what we are.

                                           James P. Hogan

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ryan Lackey 
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 09:28:57 +0800
To: Robert Hettinga 
Message-ID: <19981123210116.C1071@arianrhod.@>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Quoting Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com):
> I wonder if these guys have heard of double spending?
> 
> Does anyone know whether this is some kind of 2-d barcode (it must be) or
> is it something else?
> 
> Cheers,
> Robert Hettinga

It's a 2-d barcode, with a bunch of info encoded into it..

Short answer: they use statistical security measures to prevent double
spending, but they have a *scary* reputation and limitless resources
to pursue fraud, something no one else really has.  I would not be
brave enough to double spend with this system from my home state, if
I were in the US.

Longer rambling answer:

The E-stamp folks are pretty hardcore as far as security goes, I recall.
They use a Dallas Semiconductor iButton (plug: check out the ibuttonpunks
mailing list....) as a local value store, after paying for postage
at a central location, and do other security measures I don't quite
recall -- perhaps encoding your local post office, such that the local
post office could keep its own database of double spenders, or having
a global double spending database.

The post office is pretty much protected from fraud, in any case -- much
more than existing letters (which can be forged against high-speed
equipment using a phosophor pen).

I'm not sure how E-stamp protects itself from fraud, or protects its
customers from E-stamp committing fraud, but I'm fairly convinced there is
at least statistical security for the USPS against users.

I believe the USPS published a standard during the search for a new
postage system -- they did a pretty good job of it, I just never bothered
to buy a copy.  If someone bought a copy and mailed it to jya, it would
be doing everyone a service.

(Even if you have the nerve to commit bank wire fraud, check fraud, armed
robbery, espionage, sedition, etc., you probably still aren't brave/reckless
enough to commit postal fraud, though -- USPS inspectors make IRS
auditors look passive)


Cheers,
Ryan
ryan@venona.com






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Martin Minow 
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 14:40:24 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Is Open Source safe? [Linux Weekly News]
In-Reply-To: <199811230327.VAA20072@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Vlad Stesin  writes:

>I don't quite understand the logic behind this. The fact that the
>program's source is available is itself a proof that there are no
>backdoors. Anyone can read the source code and make sure it's OK.
>

You're missing the point that Thompson and Ritchie made in
"Reflections on Trusting Trust." To summarize:
1. They added a Trojan Horse function to the login sources.
2. They added code to the C compiler that recognized the
   login source code and inserted the Trojan Horse function,
   then they erased it from the login sources.
3. They added code to the C compiler that recognized the
   C compiler sources and added the code noted in step 2 above.
4. They then erased the source from the C compiler.

Now,
1. If you recompile login using a distributed C compiler, the
   Trojan Horse will be added to the executable, but will not
   be visible in the source.
2. If you recompile the C compiler using an existing C compiler,
   it will add the Trojan Horse insertion function, but this,
   too, will not be visible in the C sources.

I might have missed a step or two here, but you probably get
the picture. The only way to detect the Trojan Horse is to
read the executables. In the actual case, if I remember
correctly, Ken and Dennis didn't try to conceal all their
tracks, so the Trojan Horse was visible in the global symbol
(nm) listing.

>From personal experience, I am aware of at least one manufacturer
of safety-critical computer-controlled hardware who read the
assembly language output by the compiler to validate the actual
machine instructions that were generated.

Martin Minow
minow@pobox.com






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 07:44:21 +0800
To: ddt@lsd.com
Subject: building a better zyklon-B (Re: KRA on ADK vs KR, NAI membership)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199811232255.WAA17039@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Writing about PGP's key recovery mechanism (CMR (Commercial Message
Recovery) or ADK (Additional Decryption Key)), Dave Del Torto quotes
from a letter he sent to info@kra.org:

> I'm not aware of the KRA's public position on the recovery of
> plaintext using cryptographically sound and ethically responsible
> alternatives to the escrowing of keys in organizational situations,
> e.g. PGP's Additional Decryption Key (ADK) mechanism.

I don't see that ethics has any bearing on the difference between Key
Escrow, and PGP's CMR "message recovery" design.  They are both just
yet another protocol to allow third parties to decrypt encrypted
traffic.

Ethics enter into the discussion when one one starts to argue about
which third parties will be able to eavesdrop on the traffic.  This
issue is largely orthogonal to the general technique used.

Parties which people are most concerned about having access to data
are the spooks and governments via organisations such as NSA, GCHQ,
ECHELON etc.  In a commercial setting there is also some political
debate about whether the employee has any expectation of privacy.

One might also argue about whether it is ethical to design software
which helps or makes it easy for third parties to gain access to the
plaintext in general.

> What is the KRA's public position on PGP's ADK?

So one has to be clear of one's aims in asking KRA if they think PGP's
CMR or ADK is a nice technology for adding NSA backdoors to crypto.
Say, for example that they decided that CMR is neater than their CKRB
mechanism.  Now what?  NSA/KRA lobby companies to include a modified
CMR with the NSA's public key as a mandatory additional recipient?
And NAI gets `asked' by the NSA to burn an NSA public key into PGP 7.

Adam




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 4details@bitsmart.com
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 09:18:45 +0800
To: 
Subject: Export Market for Security Products
Message-ID: <199811240047.SAA25442@galaxy.galstar.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



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Export Sales Manager

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Address: A 505, 5F, Build SEG Science Park, 
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Shenzhen China

Tel.  (86)-755-376 2520  (8 Lines)    P.C.     	51828
Fax.  (86)-755-332 1197               Pager:	191-548 4749
 
 
 
 
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Albert P. Franco, II" 
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 07:16:22 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: Goldbach's Conjecture - the various definitions
In-Reply-To: <199811201329.HAA10119@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981124060343.009788e0@209.204.247.83>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 07:29 20/11/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Now before somebody gets a bee in their bonnet....
>
>Yes, the VNR has a typo in respect to the '6', it should be >2.
>
>As to the various other definitions that folks have been submitting. I'm not
>real sure what their exact point is since it's agreed by all that it's:
>
>...all even numbers greater than 2..., and Goldbach believed it had to be
>three prime factors while Fermat pointed out it could always be 2.

Math works because in most (we would like to say all...) cases it is WELL
DEFINED. Subtle differences in the definition of a problem can drastically
alter the solution. Goldbach's Conjecture states that any EVEN OR ODD
number can be expressed by a sum of three primes. The reduction only speaks
of EVEN numbers. They are EQUIVALENT but not exactly the same thing. Don't
lose sight of the domains of the two statements. He never stated that ODD
numbers could be expressed as sums of TWO primes.

It is very important to get all of the information assembled before running
out to test the conjecture! Goldbach's original conjecture allowed for even
numbers to be done with two primes but since it included the odd numbers
too, he had to allow for a third prime. 


>
>As to the two defintions that accredit the reduction from 3 to 2 to Goldbach
>while leaving Fermat out of the picture fail to explain why Fermat's point
>is called Fermat's in the first place.
>

Kind of an aside to this, I was playing with the ideas of repetitious
members of the sum and found that most numbers can be expressed by a lot of
different combinations of different primes. That is
17=11+3+3=11+3+1=9+5+3=7+5+5, etc. The higher the number the more
combinations possible. I only worked with prime numbers as the result of
the sum. But cursory inspection leads to the conclusion that all numbers
can be expressed in many ways by sums of two and three primes. Depending on
where you start to calculate (2,3,4,5,6, ...) as the first number you can
always use 3 as the third prime when summing to an odd number, Therefor
after a certain point you don't need to include 1 (as Goldbach appears to
have allowed in his original conjecture).

I would like to know if there is ANY number n>7 for which only one sum of
primes may be found. Since there were so many possible combinations, it
seems that you can take or leave the restriction of no repeats. But, if
there exists some number for which only one possible combination exists
then perhaps there exists a number for which the one and only combination
has a repeated component.

When I get a few more minutes to tinker with this I'll try to run some
tests to find such a number. 

I used do this type of tinkering in high school. If I had had a PII 300 and
MathCAD back then I would have never left Mathematics!! It was quite fun
seeing the multiple solutions popping out. 

APF




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: lcs Mixmaster Remailer 
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 16:53:09 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: A tad more on Goldbach's...
Message-ID: <19981124082003.1500.qmail@nym.alias.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Tim May scolds Jim Choate:

> Ditto for your bizarre theories about how electric fields work, about how
> charges inside conducting spheres don't follow Gauss's Law, and other
> crankish theories about electricity.
> 
> Give it a rest.

No doubt it would be rude to point out that it was Tim May's aggressive
defense of off-topic postings that has made cypherpunks a safe haven
for the likes of Jim Choate.

As for Choate, perhaps his least charming trait is his insistence on
posting his incoming private email to the mailing list, as though
cypherpunks were his personal mailbox.  He even scolds people who have
the courtesy to take off-topic discussions to private email.

This behavior is exactly the opposite of appropriate mailing list
etiquette.  Choate is like a little boy who feels a fart coming on when in
the bathroom, and who runs into the living room to share it with guests.
His particular stench has been fouling the list for far too long.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 17:11:41 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Space Aliens Address cpunx
Message-ID: <199811240839.JAA02315@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

[Bienfait Nutly News] THE COALDUST SALOON, SCENE OF MUCH DEBAUCHERY 
of late, was host tonight to Guest Sprinkler Jeff Gordon on the 
annual Golden Showers of Nuggets celebration of Notable Peons, with 
numerous notable peed-ons in drunken attendance (when not 
staggering outside to do some notable peeing-on, themselves).

Lamely trying to establish some common philosophical ground with the 
rowdy crowd, Jeff tried to cast his organization's mission as 
embodying "less is more." Realizing that "you have less, we have 
more" is not exactly what the Taoist concept means, the attendees 
raised catcalls to a pitch sufficient to shatter beer mugs within 
a radius of 100 yards. That in turn led to outpourings of grief so 
profound that Jeff was momentarily forgotten in the frenzy to order 
refills.

Trying another tack, Jeff launched into his "Nation of Laws" speech, 
ignoring shouted questions about selective prosecution, 
institutional revenge-taking, political hit lists, taxpayer 
suicides, and his organization's complicity in incidents of 
mysterious death more numerous than those trailing behind El Prez 
Klinton himself. When he delivered the line about "the price we pay 
for a civilized society," the extremes of apoplectic laughter so 
engendered were alarming enough that he paused in the interest of 
avoiding the necessity to explain deaths of attendees by traumatic 
mirth to the Canadian authorities. When he resumed, so many of the 
recovering crowd had gone to the restrooms to clean themselves up 
after pissing their pants and some of them vomiting from the effect 
of convulsive laughter that his later points were largely lost.

The question and answer period was somewhat stunted by Jeff's 
seemingly uncontrollable habit of asking each questioner's SS 
number. He didn't seem to comprehend that out of his usual 
institutional context such requests set off everyone's alarm bells, 
being the hyperparanoid rebel fucks that they are.

Of those who persisted, two threw Jeff curve balls he seemed 
unprepared to catch. One asked him his relationship to the Gordon 
who penned the Treasury's notorious Gordon Report of 1981, in which 
the author proposed using Letters of Marque and Reprisal against 
uncooperative tax haven nations, denying their flag airlines 
landing rights in the U.S., and blatantly stated that the U.S. must 
use every means at its disposal to pressure other nations to change 
their laws, even their constitutions, if necessary, to conform with 
the wishes of the U.S. Treasury and submit themselves to U.S. 
extraterritorial jurisdiction. Jeff seemed flustered, then changed 
the subject. 

The other asked him if it wasn't true that since the USG can create 
money at will out of thin air, and that therefore tax collections 
are obviously not needed to run the government, but that since 
increasing the money supply one-sidedly to fund government would 
obviously lead to hyperinflation, that the true function of the 
income tax and therefore the IRS is to take money out of 
circulation and destroy it to keep the money supply in balance. 
Jeff stammered, a few syllables slipping out as if to ask, "How did 
you...? who told you...?" Jeff hurriedly gathered his things and 
made his exit, trailed by the slow-thinking guer^H^H^Horillas he 
brought as bodyguards, his APC kicking up streams of packed snow as 
he sped away down the road.

Declan "Chainsaw" McCullough didn't seem to notice Jeff's premature 
withdrawal (as, indeed, he hadn't seemed to notice Jeff's entrance), 
and continued trying to charm two buxom blonde reportwhores with his 
tales of journalistic derring-do and wildly exaggerated claims of 
his manly proportions.

Blanc, tiring of this reportwhore's incessant questions about her 
panties, settled the issue once and for all (or at least for _that_ 
evening) by slipping them off while seated, and placing them over my 
head in such a way that I could see out the legholes while inhaling 
her womanly fragrance. My dizziness prevented me from noticing much 
else for the rest of the evening, my reaction to The Scent being not 
unlike that of a cat to catnip. I was told later that after 
collapsing to the floor I squirmed my way from table to table, 
making the complete circuit of the Coal Dust Saloon, confirming 
everyone's suspicions that I can't be taken anywhere. But then, 
neither can they.

I was recovered enough at night's end to help with the ritual 
decontamination of the Saloon that always follows the infectious 
presence of government thugs. In addition to the spiritual 
cleansing, some half-dozen subminiature bugging devices were 
recovered, followed by much entertaining speculation on which local 
asswipe they should be planted on to encourage the most dangerous 
life forms around to feed on each other.

TruthMonger

"Just because you have part of me locked up doesn't mean you 
have all of me locked up."

When I heard them say,

"You have the right to remain bent over. Anything you say or we 
imagine you said or would like to tell people you said can and 
will be used against you. You have the right to an attorney 
who works for us. If you cannot afford one, an attorney will 
be provided to help you cop a plea. Your ass belongs to us,"

I realized the Revolution had already begun.



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.2

iQCVAwUBNIOCSM5WpAclQcU1AQEayQQAxK8pV2vaImguCj6dmGBTvzWrkgZWMwIy
dfxDsf2akW+tbKZlj2PhMSrR1akBEd0LEsbekVf0bP7d/EAzNAMtB2FUezFhEtE3
BrV6fodfNzNsMMSR/i+tb+wN/6vSYXyqJmCyTfIzUnmHFHvtNf0WfIbEZi6wliQi
KtsjgvL3A2A=
=kYIE
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ZDU Email 
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 01:26:40 +0800
To: "'cypherpunks@toad.com>
Subject: Welcome to ZDU
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Thank you for subscribing to ZDU.
The information you need to login to ZDU from our Home Page
at http://www.zdu.com is as follows:

User Name:  Jolly
Password:   HRS59VTF            

Please note: the username is case sensitive, e.g. the mixed case 'XyZzY'
is not the same as the all lower case 'xyzzy'.



We hope that you enjoy our site!
 --The ZDU Staff

Ref:[\\650363-1\\]




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Patrick Hinsberger " 
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 17:56:56 +0800
To: cypherpunks-unedited@toad.com
Subject: IP-Adresses
Message-ID: <365A79AE.7FE2AAE4@globus.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Hi,

my English is fuck, but I hope that anybody unerstand me 
If I`ve got a IP-Adress, f.E. 126.0.202.146 and our proxy denies this
Adress, I can transform this adress in one number...
((126*256)+0)*256+202)*256+146 = 7E 00 CA 92
Is there a mistake?

Can I connect with this adress to a Website? (Netscape Navigator and
Proxy from Bull Systems...)

-@Hinse@-

Please give reply direct to my E-Mail adress, and not to the group...




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 02:50:59 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: A bit more on Goldbach's and Primes
Message-ID: <199811241801.MAA26092@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text




Goldbach's Conjecture:

Any even number >2 can be represented as the sum of two prime numbers.


Goldbach's Extension:

Any even number >=6 can be represented as the sum of three even numbers. 2
plus two evens that are each 1 less than a prime.


Process:

1.	Pick an even number
2.	Select largest prime that is smaller by at least 4.
3.	Add 1.
4.	The difference between 1 and 3 should be a p-1. Add one to the
	difference and it must be in the list of primes. If it's not then
	go back to 2. and select the next smaller prime because the odd
        number that comes from (p-1)+1 isn't prime for that prime.


Observation:

This technique could be used to extrapolate potential unknown primes from
known primes since it produces a much smaller list of potential candidates 
than simply testing consecutive odds via a sieve. It also is not as porous
as Mersenne Prime tests.

2+(largest_known_prime-1)+(next_smallest_unknown_prime-1)=big_even_number

So, we need a way of guestimating the magnitude of the next prime and pick
big_even_numbers that are appropriate.

Observation: For a given x the number of primes 
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 03:14:26 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: How to unsubscribe
Message-ID: <199811241839.MAA26332@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Happy Thanksgiving!

Forwarded message:

> From owner-cypherpunks@ssz.com Tue Nov 24 12:35:18 1998
> Message-ID: <365B0981.966548AE@192.168.100.6>
> Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 19:31:13 +0000
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    ____________________________________________________________________
 
             Technology cannot make us other than what we are.

                                           James P. Hogan

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 04:11:50 +0800
To: ravage@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Subject: Re: A bit more on Goldbach's and Primes
In-Reply-To: <199811241801.MAA26092@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <199811241918.NAA00906@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Jim Choate wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Goldbach's Conjecture:
> 
> Any even number >2 can be represented as the sum of two prime numbers.
> 
> 
> Goldbach's Extension:
> 
> Any even number >=6 can be represented as the sum of three even numbers. 2
> plus two evens that are each 1 less than a prime.

Jim,

The "extension" is just a trivial consequence of the original conjecture.

Proof: Take any even number N >= 6.

According to the original conjecture, there are two prime numbers P1 and
P2 such that N=p1+p2.

Rewriting this: N = 2 + (p1-1) + (p2-1).

That is, two plus two evens that are each one less than a prime.

That's eighth grade math.

> 
> Process:
> 
> 1.	Pick an even number
> 2.	Select largest prime that is smaller by at least 4.
> 3.	Add 1.
> 4.	The difference between 1 and 3 should be a p-1. Add one to the
> 	difference and it must be in the list of primes. If it's not then

if it is not then it must have not been in the list of primes.

> 	go back to 2. and select the next smaller prime because the odd
>         number that comes from (p-1)+1 isn't prime for that prime.
> 
> 
> Observation:
> 
> This technique could be used to extrapolate potential unknown primes from
> known primes since it produces a much smaller list of potential candidates 
> than simply testing consecutive odds via a sieve. It also is not as porous
> as Mersenne Prime tests.

Bullshit.

Your "technique" ASSUMES that you already know the "largest prime that
is smaller by at least 4".

> 2+(largest_known_prime-1)+(next_smallest_unknown_prime-1)=big_even_number
> 
> So, we need a way of guestimating the magnitude of the next prime and pick
> big_even_numbers that are appropriate.
> 
> Observation: For a given x the number of primes               So we could note the points where x/ln(x) increases by 1.
> 

Your observation is incorrect.

Consider x = 8.  x/ln(x) =~ 3.84, but the number of primes < 8 (2,3,5,7) is
4, that is more than 8/ln(8).

I suggest checking observations more carefully.

igor

> Even Number Sum's:
> 
>  6, 2+2+2
>  8, 2+2+4
>  10, 2+2+6
>  12, 2+4+6
>  14, 2+6+6
>  18, 2+4+12
>  20, 2+2+16
>  22, 2+2+18
>  24, 2+4+18
>  26, 2+6+18
>  28, 2+4+22
>  30, 2+6+22
>  32, 2+2+28
>  34, 2+2+30
>  36, 2+4+30
>  38, 2+6+30
>  40, 2+2+36
> 
> ...
> 
> 100, 2+2+96
> 
> ...
> 
> 398, 2+8+388     Note: this breaks since 8 isn't available. 9 ain't a
>                        prime.
> 
>      2+14+382          next smaller doesn't work since 14 isn't there.
>                        15 isn't prime.
> 
>      2+18+378          that one works!
> 
> ...
> 
> 666, 2+4+660
> 
> ...
> 
> 758, 2+6+750
> 
> ...
> 
> 1,032, 2+10+1020
> 
> ...
> 
> 1,044, 2+4+1038
> 
> ...
> 
> 6,236, 2+6+6228
> 
> ...
> 
> 7,920, 2+12+7906	Note: can't use 7,919 since it's delta is <4.
> 
> 
> Iterated Sums:
> 
> 2+2+2=6
> 2+2+4=8
> 2+2+6=10
> 2+2+10=14
> 
> 2+4+2=8
> 2+4+4=10
> 2+4+6=12
> 2+4+10=16
> 
> 2+6+2=10
> 2+6+4=12
> 2+6+6=14
> 2+6+10=18
> 
> 
> 1st 1,000 Primes & their p-1's:
> 
>       p         p-1
>  -------------------------------
> 
>       2         1
>       3		2
>       5		4
>       7		6
>      11		10
>      13		12
>      17 	16
>      19		18
>      23		22
>      29		28
>      31		30
>      37		36
>      41		40
>      43		42
>      47		46
>      53		52
>      59		58
>      61 	60
>      67		66
>      71		70
>      73		72
>      79		78
>      83		82
>      89		88
>      97		96
>     101 	100
>     103
>     107
>     109
>     113
> 
> 
>     127    131    137    139    149    151    157    163    167    173
> 
> 
>     179    181    191    193    197    199    211    223    227    229
> 
> 
>     233    239    241    251    257    263    269    271    277    281
> 
> 
>     283    293    307    311    313    317    331    337    347    349
> 
> 
>     353    359    367    373    379    383    389    397    401    409
> 
> 
>     419    421    431    433    439    443    449    457    461    463
> 
>     467    479    487    491    499    503    509    521    523    541
> 
>     547    557    563    569    571    577    587    593    599    601
> 
>     607    613    617    619    631    641    643    647    653    659
> 
>     661    673    677    683    691    701    709    719    727    733
> 
>     739    743    751    757    761    769    773    787    797    809
> 
>     811    821    823    827    829    839    853    857    859    863
> 
>     877    881    883    887    907    911    919    929    937    941
> 
>     947    953    967    971    977    983    991    997   1009   1013
> 
>    1019   1021   1031   1033   1039   1049   1051   1061   1063   1069
> 
>    1087   1091   1093   1097   1103   1109   1117   1123   1129   1151
> 
>    1153   1163   1171   1181   1187   1193   1201   1213   1217   1223
> 
>    1229   1231   1237   1249   1259   1277   1279   1283   1289   1291
> 
>    1297   1301   1303   1307   1319   1321   1327   1361   1367   1373
> 
>    1381   1399   1409   1423   1427   1429   1433   1439   1447   1451
> 
>    1453   1459   1471   1481   1483   1487   1489   1493   1499   1511
> 
>    1523   1531   1543   1549   1553   1559   1567   1571   1579   1583
> 
>    1597   1601   1607   1609   1613   1619   1621   1627   1637   1657
> 
>    1663   1667   1669   1693   1697   1699   1709   1721   1723   1733
> 
>    1741   1747   1753   1759   1777   1783   1787   1789   1801   1811
> 
>    1823   1831   1847   1861   1867   1871   1873   1877   1879   1889
> 
>    1901   1907   1913   1931   1933   1949   1951   1973   1979   1987
> 
>    1993   1997   1999   2003   2011   2017   2027   2029   2039   2053
> 
>    2063   2069   2081   2083   2087   2089   2099   2111   2113   2129
> 
>    2131   2137   2141   2143   2153   2161   2179   2203   2207   2213
> 
>    2221   2237   2239   2243   2251   2267   2269   2273   2281   2287
> 
>    2293   2297   2309   2311   2333   2339   2341   2347   2351   2357
> 
>    2371   2377   2381   2383   2389   2393   2399   2411   2417   2423
> 
>    2437   2441   2447   2459   2467   2473   2477   2503   2521   2531
> 
>    2539   2543   2549   2551   2557   2579   2591   2593   2609   2617
> 
>    2621   2633   2647   2657   2659   2663   2671   2677   2683   2687
> 
>    2689   2693   2699   2707   2711   2713   2719   2729   2731   2741
> 
>    2749   2753   2767   2777   2789   2791   2797   2801   2803   2819
> 
>    2833   2837   2843   2851   2857   2861   2879   2887   2897   2903
> 
>    2909   2917   2927   2939   2953   2957   2963   2969   2971   2999
> 
>    3001   3011   3019   3023   3037   3041   3049   3061   3067   3079
> 
>    3083   3089   3109   3119   3121   3137   3163   3167   3169   3181
> 
>    3187   3191   3203   3209   3217   3221   3229   3251   3253   3257
> 
>    3259   3271   3299   3301   3307   3313   3319   3323   3329   3331
> 
>    3343   3347   3359   3361   3371   3373   3389   3391   3407   3413
> 
>    3433   3449   3457   3461   3463   3467   3469   3491   3499   3511
> 
>    3517   3527   3529   3533   3539   3541   3547   3557   3559   3571
> 
>    3581   3583   3593   3607   3613   3617   3623   3631   3637   3643
> 
>    3659   3671   3673   3677   3691   3697   3701   3709   3719   3727
> 
>    3733   3739   3761   3767   3769   3779   3793   3797   3803   3821
> 
>    3823   3833   3847   3851   3853   3863   3877   3881   3889   3907
> 
>    3911   3917   3919   3923   3929   3931   3943   3947   3967   3989
> 
>    4001   4003   4007   4013   4019   4021   4027   4049   4051   4057
> 
>    4073   4079   4091   4093   4099   4111   4127   4129   4133   4139
> 
>    4153   4157   4159   4177   4201   4211   4217   4219   4229   4231
> 
>    4241   4243   4253   4259   4261   4271   4273   4283   4289   4297
> 
>    4327   4337   4339   4349   4357   4363   4373   4391   4397   4409
> 
>    4421   4423   4441   4447   4451   4457   4463   4481   4483   4493
> 
>    4507   4513   4517   4519   4523   4547   4549   4561   4567   4583
> 
>    4591   4597   4603   4621   4637   4639   4643   4649   4651   4657
> 
>    4663   4673   4679   4691   4703   4721   4723   4729   4733   4751
> 
>    4759   4783   4787   4789   4793   4799   4801   4813   4817   4831
> 
>    4861   4871   4877   4889   4903   4909   4919   4931   4933   4937
> 
>    4943   4951   4957   4967   4969   4973   4987   4993   4999   5003
> 
>    5009   5011   5021   5023   5039   5051   5059   5077   5081   5087
> 
>    5099   5101   5107   5113   5119   5147   5153   5167   5171   5179
> 
>    5189   5197   5209   5227   5231   5233   5237   5261   5273   5279
> 
>    5281   5297   5303   5309   5323   5333   5347   5351   5381   5387
> 
>    5393   5399   5407   5413   5417   5419   5431   5437   5441   5443
> 
>    5449   5471   5477   5479   5483   5501   5503   5507   5519   5521
> 
>    5527   5531   5557   5563   5569   5573   5581   5591   5623   5639
> 
>    5641   5647   5651   5653   5657   5659   5669   5683   5689   5693
> 
>    5701   5711   5717   5737   5741   5743   5749   5779   5783   5791
> 
>    5801   5807   5813   5821   5827   5839   5843   5849   5851   5857
> 
>    5861   5867   5869   5879   5881   5897   5903   5923   5927   5939
> 
>    5953   5981   5987   6007   6011   6029   6037   6043   6047   6053
> 
>    6067   6073   6079   6089   6091   6101   6113   6121   6131   6133
> 
>    6143   6151   6163   6173   6197   6199   6203   6211   6217   6221
> 
>    6229   6247   6257   6263   6269   6271   6277   6287   6299   6301
> 
>    6311   6317   6323   6329   6337   6343   6353   6359   6361   6367
> 
>    6373   6379   6389   6397   6421   6427   6449   6451   6469   6473
> 
>    6481   6491   6521   6529   6547   6551   6553   6563   6569   6571
> 
>    6577   6581   6599   6607   6619   6637   6653   6659   6661   6673
> 
>    6679   6689   6691   6701   6703   6709   6719   6733   6737   6761
> 
>    6763   6779   6781   6791   6793   6803   6823   6827   6829   6833
> 
>    6841   6857   6863   6869   6871   6883   6899   6907   6911   6917
> 
>    6947   6949   6959   6961   6967   6971   6977   6983   6991   6997
> 
>    7001   7013   7019   7027   7039   7043   7057   7069   7079   7103
> 
>    7109   7121   7127   7129   7151   7159   7177   7187   7193   7207
> 
>    7211   7213   7219   7229   7237   7243   7247   7253   7283   7297
> 
>    7307   7309   7321   7331   7333   7349   7351   7369   7393   7411
> 
>    7417   7433   7451   7457   7459   7477   7481   7487   7489   7499
> 
>    7507   7517   7523   7529   7537   7541   7547   7549   7559   7561
> 
>    7573   7577   7583   7589   7591   7603   7607   7621   7639   7643
> 
>    7649   7669   7673   7681   7687   7691   7699   7703   7717   7723
> 
>    7727   7741   7753   7757   7759   7789   7793   7817   7823   7829
> 
>    7841   7853   7867   7873   7877   7879   7883   7901   7907   7919
> 



	- Igor.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 01:41:58 +0800
To: Martin Minow 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981124135414.008dec10@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>Frank O'Dwyer  opines:
>>Yes it does, but not quite in the same way. For example, I believe that
>>in days of yore some attackers managed to insert a back door into some
>>DEC OS by breaking into the coding environment (I don't recall the
>>details, does anyone else?).

At 09:43 AM 11/23/98 -0800, Martin Minow wrote:
> describes how the inventors
>of Unix inserted a backdoor into the Unix login program. It's well
>worth reading. However, there is no indication that this trojan
>horse ever shipped to customers.

Well, try logging in as "ken", and I think the password was "nih" :-)
(At least when I was starting my Unix career, it was still common
to have logins "ken" and "dmr" around as a courtesy, though eventually
computer security changed that practice.)

Also, mixing up DEC and Unix has long tradition; back in 1979,
there was an article in one of the Oakland or SF papers about
"Hackers at Berkeley" cracking security on "the Unix, a computer 
made by DEC", which was really about abusing answerback on VT100s.


				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 04:58:37 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: A bit more on Goldbach's and Primes (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811242017.OAA26647@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Subject: Re: A bit more on Goldbach's and Primes
> Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 13:18:13 -0600 (CST)
> From: ichudov@Algebra.Com (Igor Chudov @ home)

> According to the original conjecture, there are two prime numbers P1 and
> P2 such that N=p1+p2.
> 
> Rewriting this: N = 2 + (p1-1) + (p2-1).
> 
> That is, two plus two evens that are each one less than a prime.
> 
> That's eighth grade math.

No, shit. It's a pity nobody seem to have ever carried it through and
published it.

> > Process:
> > 
> > 1.	Pick an even number
> > 2.	Select largest prime that is smaller by at least 4.
> > 3.	Add 1.
> > 4.	The difference between 1 and 3 should be a p-1. Add one to the
> > 	difference and it must be in the list of primes. If it's not then
> 
> if it is not then it must have not been in the list of primes.

Exactly, I've a latter version that covers the various boundary conditions
and what they mean. 9 and 15 for example aren't prime so because that number
doesn't appear in the list of primes you know that this prime won't work as
a candidate and you go pick the next lower one.

If this is your only objection with this algorithm then I'm covered.

> > Observation:
> > 
> > This technique could be used to extrapolate potential unknown primes from
> > known primes since it produces a much smaller list of potential candidates 
> > than simply testing consecutive odds via a sieve. It also is not as porous
> > as Mersenne Prime tests.
> 
> Bullshit.
> 
> Your "technique" ASSUMES that you already know the "largest prime that
> is smaller by at least 4".

But you do. You have a list of known primes as I said originaly. Should have 
looked at the list of the first 1000 primes that was attached. If you don't
want an array you could always impliment a Seive of Eratosthanese for example
to generate them as required. This is an approach I'm looking at currently
with a Perl implimentation.

Hell, even if you start off with only 2 and 3 defined as prime you can
generate the others, though it doesn't appear to be sufficient to prove
primality. It does reduce the number of candidate odd numbers to examine for
primality.

Given [ 2, 3 ] and Goldbach's Extension:

6 = 2 + 2 + 2		p = 3, p = 3

8 = 2 + 2 + 4           p = 3, p = 5
 
We do a Seive of Eratosthanese and find 5 is prime so we now have:

[ 2, 3, 5 ]

10 = 2 + 4 + 4		p = 5, p = 5

12 = 2 + 4 + 6          p = 5, p = 7

So we check 7 and find it's prime and we now have:

[ 2, 3, 5, 7 ]

And so on.

The real advantage comes into play for very large primes since they get more
sparse implying that a strictly direct approach (eg applying a Seive to
every odd number) gets more and more non-primes to sift through. This
technique reduces that set considerably because it gives you a known list of
primes that you look through for existance.

> > 2+(largest_known_prime-1)+(next_smallest_unknown_prime-1)=big_even_number
> > 
> > So, we need a way of guestimating the magnitude of the next prime and pick
> > big_even_numbers that are appropriate.
> > 
> > Observation: For a given x the number of primes  >              So we could note the points where x/ln(x) increases by 1.
> > 
> 
> Your observation is incorrect.
> 
> Consider x = 8.  x/ln(x) =~ 3.84, but the number of primes < 8 (2,3,5,7) is
> 4, that is more than 8/ln(8).

I'd say round up the 3.84. This is modulo math so fractions like this are
impossible to deal with in this context because they aren't defined. The
normal process is that if a fraction is produced it rounds up to the next
larger integer (re the Camel & Banana problem).

It's not my observation. If you go and look on The Primes webpage or any
number theory book that covers limits on primes then you will find this
asymptote given as the most commenly used.

> I suggest checking observations more carefully.

I did, you should check your conclusions more carefuly before you jump into
something.



    ____________________________________________________________________
 
             Technology cannot make us other than what we are.

                                           James P. Hogan

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 05:20:01 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Limit on number of primes....a (silly) typo...
Message-ID: <199811242042.OAA26750@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Hi,

Just to let you know, 

I had typed x/ln(x) as the asymptotic limit for the number of primes less
than x.

This is incorrect. It should be,

x/log(x)

I guess I did it by habit. Sorry.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
             Technology cannot make us other than what we are.

                                           James P. Hogan

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: chat-register@yahoo-inc.com
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 09:02:32 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Registration confirmation - Yahoo! Chat
Message-ID: <199811250004.QAA06009@e4.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Welcome to Yahoo!
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This confirmation notice is then sent to that address.


If you DID NOT request this account, we encourage you to REMOVE 
it by doing the following:

If your email software supports it, you can simply click on 
the link below. Since this web address (URL) is quite long 
you may find it necessary to copy the entire URL and paste 
it into your Web browser.

http://edit.my.yahoo.com/config/remove_user?k=IXtKZI53f2J1aHdyeXw4jiF5Sjd3MnpOfDc1T2BlTnkhdUpONjZOMjU1MDQhc0pkf2Zz

If you are prompted for the deletion key when using the
URL above, please use the following deletion key:
IXtKZI53f2J1aHdyeXw4jiF5Sjd3MnpOfDc1T2BlTnkhdUpONjZOMjU1MDQhc0pkf2Zz

Or, if you do not have internet access, please reply 
to this email (and make sure to copy this entire email 
in your reply) with REMOVE as the subject line.

___________

Your Yahoo ID is: cypher_punk

You can return to Yahoo! Chat by going to
                http://chat.yahoo.com/

Your Yahoo! ID may be used to access any of the Yahoo! services
that request a Yahoo! ID, such as:

My Yahoo - http://my.yahoo.com
Yahoo Calendar - http://calendar.yahoo.com
Yahoo Chat - http://chat.yahoo.com
Yahoo Classifieds - http://classifieds.yahoo.com
Yahoo Clubs - http://clubs.yahoo.com
Yahoo Finance - http://quote.yahoo.com
Yahoo Games - http://play.yahoo.com
Yahoo Mail - http://mail.yahoo.com
Yahoo Message Boards - http://messages.yahoo.com
Yahoo Pager - http://pager.yahoo.com
Yahoo Travel - http://travel.yahoo.com


Your e-mail is: cypherpunks@toad.com

We will use this address is case you ever forget your 
Yahoo ID or password. We'll need an address to automatically 
send a response to you.  To change this address, go to 
http://my.yahoo.com and click on the Account Information
link at the top of the page.  The edit page will let you 
update your E-Mail address, and other personal information 
and preferences.

________

Yahoo! Accounts - Top Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)

Q. How much is all this going to cost me?

A. Absolutely nothing. All Yahoo! information is paid for 
through advertising. 

Q. What if I forget my Yahoo! ID or password

A. Just click on the Help is Here link at the bottom of the 
login page. We'll ask you some basic questions to confirm 
your identity, then send you the information to the email 
address listed in your account.

Q.  How do I change my password or Yahoo! ID?

If you would like to change your Yahoo Password in My Yahoo!, 
just click Acct Info at the top of the page.  Unfortunately, 
we do not have the ability to change your Yahoo! ID. You will 
have to create a new account if you wish to have a new Yahoo! ID. 
Please note that if you do re-register, you will need to re-set 
all of your preferences for your My Yahoo! and other Yahoo!
personalized services.

Q. What is an Alias?

A.  Under your Yahoo! ID, you may add additional names for 
use in our various services, such as Chat and Classifieds.

Q. How is the Yahoo! ID stored?

A. Your Yahoo! ID is stored as a cookie on your computer.  
This way, you only need to login once. If you upgrade your 
computer software, change computers, delete your internet 
files, or click Sign Out at any time, it will clear the 
cookie from the computer's hard drive.  Just return to the
login page and enter your Yahoo! ID and Yahoo Password in 
the spaces provided and click Sign In to restore the information.  
You do not need to register again. 

Q. I use a public terminal, how do I sign out?

A. If you are using a public computer, you should always 
sign out to clear your Yahoo! ID and cookie from the computer's 
hard drive. Just click the Sign Out button or link near the top 
of the main page.

Thank you for using Yahoo!

[208.198.164.2]






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 01:29:27 +0800
To: 
Subject: open source
Message-ID: <199811241513.QAA31885@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 10:48 AM 11/23/98 -0700, Jim Burnes - Denver wrote:
>Break into the coding environment?  Does that mean they broke into
>the VMS development shop?

It is reasonable to believe that the US government (and others)
finds a patriotic "contact" with access to source,
inside various big code shops (MSoft, Lotus, the corporation
formerly known as DEC, etc.)

If it were otherwise we would not be getting our tax dollars' worth,
eh?

--Maced aliens confide in my fugs










  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 01:28:01 +0800
To: 
Subject: trusting code
Message-ID: <199811241515.QAA32114@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 01:12 PM 11/23/98 +0000, Frank O'Dwyer wrote:
>Vlad Stesin wrote:
>> I don't quite understand the logic behind this. The fact that the
>> program's source is available is itself a proof that there are no
>> backdoors. Anyone can read the source code and make sure it's OK.
>
>Anyone can, but does anyone? 

Yes we do, but applied skeptics also consider the problem is also trusting
your compiler, and the rest of the OS (incl. memory manager, keyboard driver, 
the email program your PGP utility may plug into, BIOS, etc.)

What version of Microsoft compilers will begin checking for
Mozilla code and compiling 'differently'?  

See Ritchie's Turing award article on Trusting Trust...










  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 06:40:37 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Cypherpunks with guns
Message-ID: <199811242151.NAA21976@smtp.well.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





http://www.wired.com/news/news/culture/story/16433.html

A group of San Francisco Bay Area cypherpunks recently spent
hundreds of dollars per person on "defensive handgun" and "practical rifle"
courses at the Front Sight firearms training institute in Aptos, California. 






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 08:58:23 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Pi(x) - How many primes below x?
Message-ID: <199811250025.SAA27462@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> X-within-URL: http://www.utm.edu/research/primes/howmany.shtml#pi_def

>    Consequence Three: The chance of a random integer x being prime is
>    about 1/log(x)

>   1.1. pi(x) is the number of primes less than or equal to x

> [up]   2. The Prime Number Theorem: approximating pi(x)
> 
>    Even though the distribution of primes seems random (there are
>    (probably) infinitely many twin primes and there are (definitely)
>    arbitrarily large gaps between primes), the function pi(x) is
>    surprisingly well behaved: In fact, it has been proved (see the next
>    section) that:
>    
>      The Prime Number Theorem: The number of primes not exceeding x is
>      asymptotic to x/log x.
>      
>    In terms of pi(x) we would write:
>    
>      The Prime Number Theorem: pi(x) ~ x/log x.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
             Technology cannot make us other than what we are.

                                           James P. Hogan

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Sabres Webmaster 
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 09:10:47 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Buffalo Sabres Chat Registration
Message-ID: <9811250036.AA24783@exchange.afterfive.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Following is your Chat information
     (Please save this info!)
-----------------------------------
username: cpunk
password: 4199

Remember, the username and password are both CASE SENSITIVE!




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Netscape AOL Instant Messenger" 
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 10:15:24 +0800
To: 
Subject: Netscape AOL Instant Messenger Confirmation (kB3bEjeb1I aohelsux)
Message-ID: <365BA4CD@oreg-r01.web.aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Thank you for registering for Netscape AOL Instant Messenger!

Your registration for screen name aohelsux has been received.

Please reply to this message within 48 hours to complete
the registration process.  Simply reply to the present message
and type 'OK' as the text of your message.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: BMM 
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 11:13:49 +0800
To: cypherpunks@minder.net
Subject: Announce - "Registration" Mail List
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




In order to relieve the CDR list of some of the flood of "You have
successfully registered" messages, and because some people feel there
is a need for such a thing, I have created a new mailing list for the
specific purpose of being used for registering for online services,
reg@minder.net.  Subject lines of mail from the list with be prepended
with "[r]" for easy filtering, whether automated or by eye.





It is a majordomo list, so those who are familiar with majordomo can
subscribe in the usual fashion.  For those who are not familar with
majordomo, to subscribe send a message to "majordomo@minder.net" with
"subscribe reg" (without the quotes) in the body of the message.  

Cheers,

-Brian




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Paul H. Merrill" 
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 11:41:17 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: Re: Netscape AOL Instant Messenger Confirmation (kB3bEjeb1I aohelsux)
In-Reply-To: <199811250241.DAA01847@replay.com>
Message-ID: <365B735E.4E839979@ACM.Org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Again, some clueless asshole that can't tell the difference between
solicited responses and Unsolicited spam mouths off.  If you would like
to talk about someone, talk about the jerk who set up an AIM name using
the outdated address, not the company that repsonded.

PHM

AKA PHMerrill@AOL.Com (among other names and addresses)

Anonymous wrote:
> 
> This does wonders for my opinion of AOL. Even the administration has no clue.
> 
> AOL administration spammed the Cypherpunks  list, using
> an address for Cypherpunks which has been defunct for over a year now, with:
> 
> >Thank you for registering for Netscape AOL Instant Messenger!
> >
> >Your registration for screen name aohelsux has been received.
> >
> >Please reply to this message within 48 hours to complete
> >the registration process.  Simply reply to the present message
> >and type 'OK' as the text of your message.
> 
> P.S. "Well they just responded to an address someone gave them," like
> certain advocates of AOL, lamers, and Microsoft we have on the list have
> said, is not an excuse. It's easy to set up domain validation. The spammers
> just don't care.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 07:06:57 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: :-)
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Resent-Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 10:39:41 -0500
X-Authentication-Warning: qnx.com: localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO
protocol
To: 0xdeadbeef@substance.abuse.blackdown.org
Cc: bostic@bostic.com
Subject: Is there any Substance to this Email ??
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 10:43:51 -0500
From: glen mccready 
Resent-From: 0xdeadbeef@substance.abuse.blackdown.org
X-Mailing-List: <0xdeadbeef@substance.abuse.blackdown.org> archive/latest/274
X-Loop: 0xdeadbeef@substance.abuse.blackdown.org
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: 0xdeadbeef-request@substance.abuse.blackdown.org
Status: U


Forwarded-by: Chris Wedgwood 

From: tph@longhorn.uucp (Tom Harrington)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Win 98 Snitch?
Message-ID: <7279b8$ahr1@eccws1.dearborn.ford.com>

Mark Statzer (mstatz@net66.om) wrote:

: Microsoft slapped two more lawsuit against one teenager and one
: retired worker for using pirated Windows 98 software.

: For your information on how Microsoft actually trace
: PIRATED/COPIED/UNLICENSED Windows 98:

: Whenever you logon into the Internet, during the verifying password
: duration. Your ISP (Internet Service provider eg:SingNET, PacNET,
: CyberNET, SwiftNET) will download a SUB-REGISTRY ENCRYPTED HEXADECIMAL
: (containing all your PROGRAMS serial numbers installed into Win98!!)
: file from your Windows 98 registry. Then they send this SUB-REGISTRY
: to Microsoft for verification. And ONLY Microsoft knows how to decode
: this encrypted hexadecimal file. If Microsoft verified that the serial
: numbers are authentic, then they WILL REGISTER THOSE NUMBERS FOR YOU
: A-U-T-O-M-A-T-C-A-L-L-Y !!!

: And if Microsoft denied those serial numbers, then they will send an
: E-Mail to the ISP you dialed into and your ISP will start tracing
: everyone who logons to their systems. That's why during sometime for
: no reason your Internet started slowing down. And if your ISP verified
: that the SUB-REGISTRY ENCRYPTED HEXADECIMAL file is yours, they will
: send
: your information over to Microsoft Singapore. And there they will
: decide whether to take actions or not.

And then, if they _do_ decide to take action, black helicopters start
circling your house, using mind-control rays to bend you to Microsoft's
will.  If this doesn't cut it (say, you're wearing a tin-foil hat), the
men in black show up and remove your whole computer, and then use their
memory-zapping thingy to erase any memory of ever having a computer.
You'll then be officially branded as a dangerous outlaw subversive type
(even though you no longer have your PIRATE/COPIED/UNLICENSED software,
you've demonstrated that you're the type of person who will _get_ such
software) and will not be able to get jobs, insurance, loans, etc.  MS
will tap your phone, and their agents will follow your every move.

: There is already 54 cases in Singapore regarding uses of
: PIRATE/COPIED/UNLICENSED Windows 98.

Finally, when the revolution comes, MS will see to it that your house is
high on the list of sites for the UN invaders to hit with tactical
nukes.

: Is there any Substance to this Email ??

It's all true.  I had to go public with this information, even though
the MS stormtroopers will doubtless show up at any second now.  The
people have a right to know.  DON'T EVER GO ON LINE!!!  YOUR LIFE
DEPENDS ON IT!!!!

: Do you Guys think that there exists such a registry in Windows 98
: Has microsoft sued anybody for illegal use of it ??

Sued?  SUED???!!?  When MS gets through with you, you're going to WISH
that they'd jusT SUED you!  These people are EVIL!!! They kidnapped my
dog and G$%@^RB. f
NO CARRIER

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 08:00:34 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: open-pgp / s/mime interoperability
Message-ID: <199811242259.WAA04469@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




On the IETF s/mime list Jon Callas (PGP/NAI employee and co-author of
IETF open-pgp draft for cypherpunks not following open-pgp) wrote:

: I'd like to note that PGP is supported by NAI, Microsoft, Novell,
: and more that are coming soon.

curious as to what form Microsoft support of PGP will come in.
Integrated PGP support with microsoft mail clients in later versions?

Jon also wrote:

: there is no reason why you can't have PGP
: messages backed by X.509 certificates, and it is trivial to use S/MIME
: with OpenPGP certificates.  I'm planning on writing a short
: informational RFC on how to do it once we all get RFC numbers for our
: respective systems.

open-pgp public keys aren't based on X.509 keys, so I would've thought
s/mime implementation would barf on them.  Are you basing this on the
fact that you can extract the actual public key and repackage it as an
X.509 public key?  In this way you could take the same key into the
X.509 / s/mime world, but you would lose open-pgp sigantures on the
key, so it would lose it's certification.

More recently we've been hearing that PGP6.x? or a future version of
PGP does or will allow one to carry along X.509 keys, or perhaps even
work directly with X.509 keys.  Is this what you are referring to?

(Separate question: any due date on the netscape plugin -- I want one
of those!)

Adam

(message from IETF s/mime list the above is quoted from below).

------- Start of forwarded message -------
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 17:54:29 -0800
To: Stefan_Salzmann/HAM/Lotus@lotus.com, ietf-smime@imc.org
From: Jon Callas 
Subject: Re: Difference between SMIME and PGP

At 05:20 PM 11/4/98 +0100, Stefan_Salzmann/HAM/Lotus@lotus.com wrote:
   
   I am struggling on the difference between SMIME and PGP. One of my
customers
   wants to make the decision between using SMIME and PGP. I have been talking
   already with them but we got stuck in detailes.
   
   Basically its quit clear. SMIME will be supported by all important industry
   leaders such as Netscape, Microsoft, Novell etc. 

I'd like to note that PGP is supported by NAI, Microsoft, Novell, and more
that are coming soon.

   Further SMIME supports the
   hierarchical trust model and PGP only supports the "web of trust" model. 

Actually, this is false. PGP supports all trust models, direct trust,
hierarchical trust, and web of trust. As I said in my previous message, PGP
supports 255 levels of hierarchy.

However, I forgot to say that OpenPGP does not mandate *any* trust model.
As a matter of fact, the OpenPGP working group has rejected any mandate of
trust model. You are permitted to use an OpenPGP certificate with PKIX
evaluation rules, and still be OpenPGP compliant!

   Now
   with PGP Version 6.0, PGP will support also X.509 certificates. Those
can also
   be loaded into an PGP client than an SMIME Client can do it.
   So where is the difference now? Is it just the fact that the industry
decided to
   go with SMIME or are there more differences (advantages for SMIME) when
looking
   more closely.

Actually, the industry hasn't decided to go with anything. Furthermore,
there is no reason why you can't have PGP messages backed by X.509
certificates, and it is trivial to use S/MIME with OpenPGP certificates.
I'm planning on writing a short informational RFC on how to do it once we
all get RFC numbers for our respective systems.

   For instance using RSA public key encryption versus Deffie Helman public
key
   encryption. How about Digital Signature Standard (DSS)? I have red about
DSS and
   understand that DSS is the standard that provides the Digital Signature
   Algorithm. Before applying it there has to be calculated an Digest using
SHA. I
   always thought that calculating the digest would be the signature
already!! So
   why using the DSA in addition? Will the digest be decrypted using the
Deffie
   Helman private key? 

The issue of algorithm is orthogonal to message encoding. The PGP-S/MIME
question is really one of message encoding format. Each requires DSS, and
allows RSA.

The DSS (Digital Signature Standard) describes how to make a signature
using DSA (Digital Signature Algorithm) and SHA1 (Secure Hash Algorithm).
That's how they relate. You could (for example) use DSA with RIPEMD-160,
but it wouldn't be DSS because DSS specifies the hash algorithm you should
be using for the signature.

DSA is a signature-only algorithm. Consequently, you aren't doing a
"decryption" with it when you evaluate a signature. I recommend you look in
a crypto source book, like Schneier's "Applied Cryptography" or Menezes,
van Oorschot, and Vanstone's "Handbook of Applied Cryptography" for details
of how DSS is done. There is also source code available from a wide variety
of places.

   Users that apply Deffie Helman exchange their public values
   in order to derive an secret key that will be known at both party sides.
Is that
   secret key the private key used to encrypt message digests or is the
private key
   generated by the DSA algorithm?

Like I said, DSS has its own signature-only key. As for "Diffie-Hellman"
depending on the variant of DH you're using, you may or may not have an
actual key. Many real-time systems use ephemeral DH merely to exchange
symmetric keys. In OpenPGP, we use the Elgamal system for encryption.
S/MIME is using an X9.42 algorithm that is very close (if not identical) to
Elgamal.

   In PGP further exist key rings that contain the public keys of other
users? How
   does that work with X.509 Certificates that actually contain the public
key. If
   there has to be a public key revoked, it happens in the key ring. Would
it be
   possible to export that revoked certificate. If not the revoked public
key would
   resist only lokally.

Most systems, be they PGP or X.509, use something akin to a directory to
store certs, revocations, etc. Typically, these are HTTP or LDAP based
systems.

   Are there any differences/advantages between RSA and Deffie Helman?

Again, this is orthoganal to encoding, as these are merely algorithms. But
yes, of course. The security of RSA is based upon the difficulty of
factoring large numbers. Most people who toss around the term
"Diffie-Hellman" use it to cover an entire family of algorithms whose
security is all based on the difficulty of solving discrete logs. These
include DSA, X9.42, Schnorr, and Elgamal. They are all approximately of the
same strength.

There are also a wide variety of advantages and disadvantages. Frequently,
these are the same. For example, in RSA encryption and signatures are the
same, which is simple, but leads to some hygenic problems. A signature-only
system like DSA is less flexible, but easier to export, and enforces good
key hygene (meaning that it is bad practice to use the same key for
signatures as for encryption). I could go on with a discussion of all this,
but this thread is already off-topic for this mailing list. Feel free to
mail me privately or phone.
   
   You see I am very confused right now and I have the feeling that all my
security
   theories woun´t match with those used in PGP.

There are many good reasons for being confused. One of the most important
ones is that there really aren't a lot of differences between the systems.
They are all trying to solve the same problem, but each has a slightly
different slant to it.
   
   I really would appreciate it if there would be someone helping my to
remove all
   that dust of my mind...
   
   Thank you in advance

You're welcome.

	Jon   

-----
Jon Callas                                  jon@pgp.com
CTO, Total Network Security                 3965 Freedom Circle
Network Associates, Inc.                    Santa Clara, CA 95054
(408) 346-5860                              
Fingerprints: D1EC 3C51 FCB1 67F8 4345 4A04 7DF9 C2E6 F129 27A9 (DSS)
              665B 797F 37D1 C240 53AC 6D87 3A60 4628           (RSA)




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tom Jud - US 5-200 Sales 
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 16:18:04 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: NAI Special offers to expire Soon
Message-ID: <199811250730.XAA22029@mail.mcafee.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Burnes - Denver 
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 16:18:07 +0800
To: Anonymous 
Subject: Re: Y2K Report Card
In-Reply-To: <50a20d7167d9f00b008bf7c81c8b6ee0@anonymous>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Wed, 25 Nov 1998, Anonymous wrote:

> Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 13:55:01 +0900 (JST)
> From: Anonymous 
> To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
> Subject: Y2K Report Card
> 
> AGENCIES GET NEW REPORT CARDS ON Y2K READINESS
> 
> 
> Saying "the picture is a gloomy one," Congressman 
> Stephen Horn, chair of the House subcommittee 
> responsible for overseeing government progress on
> averting the Y2K problem, has given out new report 
> cards to federal agencies.  Three departments 
> flunked:  Justice; Health & Human Services; and 
> State.

Wonder what the implications of this are?

>  The Defense Department gets a D-minus.  

So this means they flunked too.  Since having the
DOD non compliant could be a national security risk.
That means they flunked, but we couldn't say so.

How many nukes are going to be checking the number
of days since they last talked to launch control?
What are the chances they are date sensitive?
What happens if they should lose contact for 
greater than a certain number of days?  Do they
assume we've been nuked? How about the russians?
The Chinese?  What if the entire US DOD C&C network
goes down.  Is it an EMP?  Is it infowar?  Is it
Y2K?

> Three departments get A grades:  Small Business 
> Administration;  Social Security Administration;
> and the National Science Foundation.

Was this graded on a curve? ;-O

I thought SSA was still two years off target.

>  The Social 
> Security Administration began working on the 
> problem in 1989, eight years before most other 
> government agencies. 
> 

This A/B/C/D/F stuff worked in school, but on a
complex remediation effort doesn't really mean
anything.

Is that an 'A' for effort?

jim





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 08:37:45 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Limit on number of primes....a (stupid) idiot...
Message-ID: <199811250002.BAA20907@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate is so stupid that even when he accidentally gets something
right, he quickly "corrects" himself so that he is wrong again:

> I had typed x/ln(x) as the asymptotic limit for the number of primes less
> than x.
> 
> This is incorrect. It should be,
> 
> x/log(x)

Wrong, doofus.  x/ln(x) is the correct asymptotic limit.  What role could
logs to the base 10 possibly play?  Do you think God favors the number 10?
What a fool you are!




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 11:13:09 +0800
To: Netscape AOL Instant Messenger 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



This does wonders for my opinion of AOL. Even the administration has no clue.

AOL administration spammed the Cypherpunks  list, using
an address for Cypherpunks which has been defunct for over a year now, with:

>Thank you for registering for Netscape AOL Instant Messenger!
>
>Your registration for screen name aohelsux has been received.
>
>Please reply to this message within 48 hours to complete
>the registration process.  Simply reply to the present message
>and type 'OK' as the text of your message.

P.S. "Well they just responded to an address someone gave them," like
certain advocates of AOL, lamers, and Microsoft we have on the list have
said, is not an excuse. It's easy to set up domain validation. The spammers
just don't care.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: HyperReal-Anon 
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 12:58:22 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Netscape AOL Instant Messenger Confirmation (kB3bEjeb1I aohelsux)
Message-ID: <6ece424b07b03e6b239e826cfb06531d@anonymous>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>Thank you for registering for Netscape AOL Instant Messenger!

Hey Tim, do you have a spare semi-auto I can borrow? You'll get it back
if AOL's security is as low as their intelligence.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: lcs Mixmaster Remailer 
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 14:01:24 +0800
To: "paul h. merrill" 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Do you even bother to read the posts you try to flame? Read the last part of
that.

Paul H. Merrill wrote:
>
>Again, some clueless asshole that can't tell the difference between
>solicited responses and Unsolicited spam mouths off.  If you would like
>to talk about someone, talk about the jerk who set up an AIM name using
>the outdated address, not the company that repsonded.
>
>PHM
>
>AKA PHMerrill@AOL.Com (among other names and addresses)
>
>Anonymous wrote:
>>
>> This does wonders for my opinion of AOL. Even the administration has no clue.
>>
>> AOL administration spammed the Cypherpunks  list, using
>> an address for Cypherpunks which has been defunct for over a year now, with:
>>
>> >Thank you for registering for Netscape AOL Instant Messenger!
>> >
>> >Your registration for screen name aohelsux has been received.
>> >
>> >Please reply to this message within 48 hours to complete
>> >the registration process.  Simply reply to the present message
>> >and type 'OK' as the text of your message.
>>
>> P.S. "Well they just responded to an address someone gave them," like
>> certain advocates of AOL, lamers, and Microsoft we have on the list have
>> said, is not an excuse. It's easy to set up domain validation. The spammers
>> just don't care.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 13:37:49 +0800
To: security@aol.com
Subject: Re: Netscape AOL Instant Messenger Confirmation (kB3bEjeb1I aohelsux)
Message-ID: <199811250510.GAA13692@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>Again, some clueless asshole that can't tell the difference between
>solicited responses and Unsolicited spam mouths off.  If you would like
>to talk about someone, talk about the jerk who set up an AIM name using
>the outdated address, not the company that repsonded.
>
>PHM
>
>AKA PHMerrill@AOL.Com (among other names and addresses)

Again, the clueless asshole known as Paul *H.* Merrill jumps up and defends
AOL, incompetently-written web sites, and morons everywhere.

Someone told AOL to mail cypherpunks@toad.com. AOL could have checked to see
if the originating site was under the toad.com domain. This is trivial. They
didn't. It's rather easy to just require that somebody trying to mail an
address under the toad.com domain submit the request from an address under
toad.com. 

In other words, Paul, you believe that if somebody goes and types your
address into some system and asks it to send you 512MB of MPEG video, that's
okay because it was solicited. It wasn't solicited by you but somebody
solicited it.

Oops. That's "blatent propoganda." I'd better rephrase. In other words,
Paul, you believe that if somebody goes and types YOUR address into fifty
different systems, signs you up for a bunch of mailing lists, and generally
causes you a lot of inconvenience, that's okay because it was solicited. You
don't know who it was solicited by, but somebody obviously did. If you then
object to the sites sending you mail rather than just silently
unsubscribing yourself every week, are you then just 'some clueless asshole'?

Are spammers now not to be held accountable for their spamming because they
bought a list of addresses from someone who claimed that the people all
asked to be on the mailing list?

Why don't we just sign Cypherpunks up for Ignition-Point, the FP list, the 
ACLU action advisories, Sixdegrees, and whatever else we can find? Or should
We just sign up Paul, really, because he doesn't have a problem with this. 
In fact I'm sure we could make some 'marketting research' to show that he 
might be interested. Hey let's get the entire CDR subscription list and
sign everybody up for FP and ACLU because if you're on Cypherpunks you're
obviously interested in those things.

The root of the problem is sites which require email addresses for no good
reason, and/or don't have the decency to perform a simple check to see if
the domains match. They're lazy. They're irresponsible. When confronted, no
matter how civil, they react much like you do, Paul, and they don't want to
be inconvenienced by having to fix their usually badly-designed web sites.

If I recall correctly Tim has the same opinion and has stated it a few
times as have others so I'm not alone.

Now I leave you, Paul, so you can go back to your 24 hour vigil and you and
your quick response team can scour the net for attacks against AOL and the
true clueless assholes, and defend them with your last breath.

Yet Another 'Clueless Asshole'





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ken Williams 
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 22:28:35 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: [ISN] Feds Want Banks to Spy on All Customers...Even You!   (fwd)
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----


Good thing I keep all my money in a steel case buried somewhere
along the Appalachian trail.  No bank accounts, no credit cards.

Ken Williams

Packet Storm Security        http://www.Genocide2600.com/~tattooman/
E.H.A.P. Head of Operations  http://www.ehap.org/   ehap@ehap.org
NC State CS Dept  http://www.csc.ncsu.edu/   jkwilli2@unity.ncsu.edu
PGP DSS/DH/RSA Keys          http://www4.ncsu.edu/~jkwilli2/pgpkey/

_____________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free, Encrypted Email at http://www.nsa.gov


- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 00:56:41 -0700 (MST)
From: mea culpa 
To: InfoSec News 
Subject: [ISN] Feds Want Banks to Spy on All Customers...Even You!  


>From: ISPI Clips 6.51
>From: WorldNetDaily, November 23, 1998

Big Brother Banks? FDIC has snooping plans
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_exnews/19981123_xex_big_brother_.shtml
David M. Bresnahan, David@talkusa.com
Contributing Editor, WorldNetDaily

Are you a potential criminal? Are you a threat to banks, airlines, a
potential spy, or perhaps an IRS tax protester? The government would like
to know and they are about to force banks to be their detectives. 

The federal government wants banks to investigate you. Soon your banker
will know more about you than anyone else in town. Banks must not only
determine your correct identity, they must also know how you make your
money, and how you spend it. Once you establish a pattern of deposits and
withdrawals, banks must inform federal agencies when you deviate. 

Bank customers may soon find themselves explaining to the FBI, Internal
Revenue Service, and the Drug Enforcement Agency why they made a $15,000
deposit to their bank account. According to current Federal Deposit
Insurance Corporation plans, banks will soon establish "profiles" of their
customers and report deviations from those profiles. 

If you sell a car, for example, and place the proceeds in your account
while you shop for a new one, a red flag may go off in the bank computer. 
Such a situation puts law abiding citizens in a situation where they must
prove they are innocent, says Scott McDonald of the watchdog group Fight
the Fingerprint. 

An uproar from grass roots Americans is the only thing that will stop the
current plans for the FDIC "Know Your Customer" program, according to
McDonald. His organization has led the charge against the national ID,
medical ID, and computerized information about private aspects of people's
lives. 

A recent announcement by the FDIC provides for citizen comment prior to
implementation of their new banking regulations. The deadline for comments
is Dec. 27, 1998. 

"The FDIC is proposing to issue a regulation requiring insured nonmember
banks to develop and maintain 'Know Your Customer' programs," according to
a recent FDIC information package sent to Congress to provide notice of
proposed rulemaking, and to banks for comment. 

"As proposed," the 29-page FDIC document begins, "the regulation would
require each nonmember bank to develop a program designed to determine the
identity of its customers; determine its customers' source of funds; 
determine the normal and expected transactions of its customers; monitor
account activity for transactions that are inconsistent with those normal
and expected transactions; and report anytransactions of its customers
that are determined to be suspicious, in accordance with the FDIC's
existing suspicious activity reporting regulation. By requiring insured
nonmember banks to determine the identity of their customers, as well as
to obtain knowledge regarding the legitimate activities of their
customers, the proposed regulation will reduce the likelihood that insured
nonmember banks will become unwitting participants in illicit activities
conducted or attempted by their customers. It will also level the playing
field between institutions that already have adopted formal 'Know Your
Customer' programs and those that have not." 

Many banks across the country have already begun to implement such
programs, according to the FDIC. A quick search of the Internet found many
stories in press accounts of problems reported at such banks. There have
been a number of stories dealing with banks requiring fingerprints to open
accounts and to cash checks. There are several lawsuits presently underway
testing the right of banks to make that requirement. 

McDonald has been fighting that issue, along with fingerprints on driver's
licenses for some time. He pointed out the many errors found on credit
reports and suggested that banks will soon make similar errors when they
begin creating profiles of their customers. 

The FDIC is selling the planned regulations by pointing out the need for
prevention of financial and other crime. 

"By identifying and, when appropriate, reporting such transactions in
accordance with existing suspicious activity reporting requirements,
financial institutions are protecting their integrity and are assisting
the efforts of the financial institution regulatory agencies and law
enforcement authorities to combat illicit activities at such
institutions,"  says the FDIC. 

The proposed regulation is, according to FDIC spokesperson Carol A. 
Mesheske, authorized by current law. It comes from the statutory authority
granted the FDIC under section 8(s)(1) of the Federal Deposit Insurance
Act (12 U.S.C. 18189s)(1), as amended by section 259(a)(2) of the Crime
Control Act of 1990 (Pub. L. 101-647). 

The FDIC claims that the law requires them to develop regulations to
require banks to "establish and maintain internal procedures reasonably
designed to ensure and monitor compliance with the Bank Secrecy Act. 
Effective 'Know Your Customer' programs serve to facilitate compliance
with the Bank Secrecy Act." 

The proposed regulations will mandate that all banks insured by the FDIC
must maintain an intelligence gathering department that screens out
customers and keeps an eye on existing customers. Before you decide to
move your money to a credit union, you should know that the FDIC is not
the only federal organization making such plans. 

"Each of the other Federal bank supervisory agencies is proposing to adopt
substantially identical regulations covering state member and national
banks, federally-chartered branches and agencies of foreign banks, savings
associations, and credit unions. There also have been discussions with the
Federal regulators of non-bank financial institutions, such as
broker-dealers, concerning the need to propose similar rules governing the
activities of these non-bank institutions," reports FDIC attorney Karn L. 
Main in the proposal. 

The purposes for the regulation are to protect the reputation of the
banks, to facilitate compliance with the law, to improve safe and sound
banking practices, and to protect banks from being used by criminals as a
vehicle for illegal activities. 

Current customers will be subjected to the new regulation in the same way
new customers will be scrutinized. The FDIC does not wish to permit any
loop hole which would leave any bank customer unidentified or
unsupervised. 

Each bank will create profiles. The first profile will determine the
amount of risk a potential customer might present by opening an account.
The system of profiling potential customers will be different from one
bank to the next, since the FDIC does not provide a uniform program. The
purpose of the profile is to identify potential customers who might use a
bank account for funds obtained through criminal activity. 

The next profile will be one that is used by automated computers to
determine when suspicious activity is taking place in an account. When
activity in the account does not fit the profile, banks will notify
federal authorities so they can investigate. 

Banks are expected to identify their customers, determine normal and
expected transactions, monitor account transactions, and determine if a
particular transaction should be reported. 

The FDIC has sent copies of the proposal to all banks and is asking for
input. The questions asked by the FDIC in the proposal do not




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Frank Brueckner 
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 16:19:58 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: OpenPGP / S/MIME Interoperability
In-Reply-To: <199811242259.WAA04469@server.eternity.org>
Message-ID: <365BB786.4C2E2448@mch.sni.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Adam Back reported that Jon Callas wrote: 
 
> [...] there is no reason why you can't have PGP 
> messages backed by X.509 certificates, and it is trivial to use S/MIME 
> with OpenPGP certificates.  I'm planning on writing a short 
> informational RFC on how to do it once we all get RFC numbers for our 
> respective systems. 
 
It wouldn't be bad to include this activity in the discussion hosted by 
. 
 
Am I right ? 
 
 
Regards 
 
  Frank Brückner 
  Siemens Information and Communication Networks 
  Directory Team     http://www.siemensmeta.com/




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 23:57:01 +0800
To: jkwilli2@unity.ncsu.edu (Ken Williams)
Subject: Re: [ISN] Feds Want Banks to Spy on All Customers...Even You!   (fwd)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199811251500.JAA10213@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Ken Williams wrote:
> 
> 
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> 
> 
> Good thing I keep all my money in a steel case buried somewhere
> along the Appalachian trail.  No bank accounts, no credit cards.

That may be good, but your decision is not costless. You are losing
all the interest that could accrue on the money and it is constantly
diminished by inflation.

Is it worth it? It's your call, but I do not see what you do as something
that is unquestionably wise.

igor

> Ken Williams
> 
> Packet Storm Security        http://www.Genocide2600.com/~tattooman/
> E.H.A.P. Head of Operations  http://www.ehap.org/   ehap@ehap.org
> NC State CS Dept  http://www.csc.ncsu.edu/   jkwilli2@unity.ncsu.edu
> PGP DSS/DH/RSA Keys          http://www4.ncsu.edu/~jkwilli2/pgpkey/
> 
> _____________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free, Encrypted Email at http://www.nsa.gov
> 
> 
> - ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 00:56:41 -0700 (MST)
> From: mea culpa 
> To: InfoSec News 
> Subject: [ISN] Feds Want Banks to Spy on All Customers...Even You!  
> 
> 
> >From: ISPI Clips 6.51
> >From: WorldNetDaily, November 23, 1998
> 
> Big Brother Banks? FDIC has snooping plans
> http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_exnews/19981123_xex_big_brother_.shtml
> David M. Bresnahan, David@talkusa.com
> Contributing Editor, WorldNetDaily
> 
> Are you a potential criminal? Are you a threat to banks, airlines, a
> potential spy, or perhaps an IRS tax protester? The government would like
> to know and they are about to force banks to be their detectives. 
> 
> The federal government wants banks to investigate you. Soon your banker
> will know more about you than anyone else in town. Banks must not only
> determine your correct identity, they must also know how you make your
> money, and how you spend it. Once you establish a pattern of deposits and
> withdrawals, banks must inform federal agencies when you deviate. 
> 
> Bank customers may soon find themselves explaining to the FBI, Internal
> Revenue Service, and the Drug Enforcement Agency why they made a $15,000
> deposit to their bank account. According to current Federal Deposit
> Insurance Corporation plans, banks will soon establish "profiles" of their
> customers and report deviations from those profiles. 
> 
> If you sell a car, for example, and place the proceeds in your account
> while you shop for a new one, a red flag may go off in the bank computer. 
> Such a situation puts law abiding citizens in a situation where they must
> prove they are innocent, says Scott McDonald of the watchdog group Fight
> the Fingerprint. 
> 
> An uproar from grass roots Americans is the only thing that will stop the
> current plans for the FDIC "Know Your Customer" program, according to
> McDonald. His organization has led the charge against the national ID,
> medical ID, and computerized information about private aspects of people's
> lives. 
> 
> A recent announcement by the FDIC provides for citizen comment prior to
> implementation of their new banking regulations. The deadline for comments
> is Dec. 27, 1998. 
> 
> "The FDIC is proposing to issue a regulation requiring insured nonmember
> banks to develop and maintain 'Know Your Customer' programs," according to
> a recent FDIC information package sent to Congress to provide notice of
> proposed rulemaking, and to banks for comment. 
> 
> "As proposed," the 29-page FDIC document begins, "the regulation would
> require each nonmember bank to develop a program designed to determine the
> identity of its customers; determine its customers' source of funds; 
> determine the normal and expected transactions of its customers; monitor
> account activity for transactions that are inconsistent with those normal
> and expected transactions; and report anytransactions of its customers
> that are determined to be suspicious, in accordance with the FDIC's
> existing suspicious activity reporting regulation. By requiring insured
> nonmember banks to determine the identity of their customers, as well as
> to obtain knowledge regarding the legitimate activities of their
> customers, the proposed regulation will reduce the likelihood that insured
> nonmember banks will become unwitting participants in illicit activities
> conducted or attempted by their customers. It will also level the playing
> field between institutions that already have adopted formal 'Know Your
> Customer' programs and those that have not." 
> 
> Many banks across the country have already begun to implement such
> programs, according to the FDIC. A quick search of the Internet found many
> stories in press accounts of problems reported at such banks. There have
> been a number of stories dealing with banks requiring fingerprints to open
> accounts and to cash checks. There are several lawsuits presently underway
> testing the right of banks to make that requirement. 
> 
> McDonald has been fighting that issue, along with fingerprints on driver's
> licenses for some time. He pointed out the many errors found on credit
> reports and suggested that banks will soon make similar errors when they
> begin creating profiles of their customers. 
> 
> The FDIC is selling the planned regulations by pointing out the need for
> prevention of financial and other crime. 
> 
> "By identifying and, when appropriate, reporting such transactions in
> accordance with existing suspicious activity reporting requirements,
> financial institutions are protecting their integrity and are assisting
> the efforts of the financial institution regulatory agencies and law
> enforcement authorities to combat illicit activities at such
> institutions,"  says the FDIC. 
> 
> The proposed regulation is, according to FDIC spokesperson Carol A. 
> Mesheske, authorized by current law. It comes from the statutory authority
> granted the FDIC under section 8(s)(1) of the Federal Deposit Insurance
> Act (12 U.S.C. 18189s)(1), as amended by section 259(a)(2) of the Crime
> Control Act of 1990 (Pub. L. 101-647). 
> 
> The FDIC claims that the law requires them to develop regulations to
> require banks to "establish and maintain internal procedures reasonably
> designed to ensure and monitor compliance with the Bank Secrecy Act. 
> Effective 'Know Your Customer' programs serve to facilitate compliance
> with the Bank Secrecy Act." 
> 
> The proposed regulations will mandate that all banks insured by the FDIC
> must maintain an intelligence gathering department that screens out
> customers and keeps an eye on existing customers. Before you decide to
> move your money to a credit union, you should know that the FDIC is not
> the only federal organization making such plans. 
> 
> "Each of the other Federal bank supervisory agencies is proposing to adopt
> substantially identical regulations covering state member and national
> banks, federally-chartered branches and agencies of foreign banks, savings
> associations, and credit unions. There also have been discussions with the
> Federal regulators of non-bank financial institutions, such as
> broker-dealers, concerning the need to propose similar rules governing the
> activities of these non-bank institutions," reports FDIC attorney Karn L. 
> Main in the proposal. 
> 
> The purposes for the regulation are to protect the reputation of the
> banks, to facilitate compliance with the law, to improve safe and sound
> banking practices, and to protect banks from being used by criminals as a
> vehicle for illegal activities. 
> 
> Current customers will be subjected to the new regulation in the same way
> new customers will be scrutinized. The FDIC does not wish to permit any
> loop hole which would leave any bank customer unidentified or
> unsupervised. 
> 
> Each bank will create profiles. The first profile will determine the
> amount of risk a potential customer might present by opening an account.
> The system of profiling potential customers will be different from one
> bank to the next, since the FDIC does not provide a uniform program. The
> purpose of the profile is to identify potential customers who might use a
> bank account for funds obtained through criminal activity. 
> 
> The next profile will be one that is used by automated computers to
> determine when suspicious activity is taking place in an account. When
> activity in the account does not fit the profile, banks will notify
> federal authorities so they can investigate. 
> 
> Banks are expected to identify their customers, determine normal and
> expected transactions, monitor account transactions, and determine if a
> particular transaction should be reported. 
> 
> The FDIC has sent copies of the proposal to all banks and is asking for
> input. The questions asked by the FDIC in the proposal do not
> 



	- Igor.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 02:15:17 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: [ISN] Feds Want Banks to Spy on All Customers...Even You! (fwd)
Message-ID: <365C3CDB.6F34@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I spotted the *rhetorical* steel case in the first note.

The disturbing thing here is the requirement to report deviations from a
pattern. That is where it becomes a NaziReptilianProctoscope$ystem. It's
my fucking money, I can do whatever the fuck I want with it, whenever
the fuck I want to. I wish those fuckers would look at the Fourth
Amendment. 

The structuring stuff looks like it could get pretty wierd: how I move
my money should not matter but maybe it does.

Why do reptiles have such a bad name? Some of my favorite politicians
are reptiles. 

BTW - the FDIC site state that there is no statutory requirement for a
'Know Your Customer' system. You could also say that they are not
interested in little guys, that they need this stuff to do their job,
but if the laws are written so that anyone can be targeted without a
warrant then there is a *big* problem. Especially worrisome is automated
pattern analysis without a warrant - a violation of the 4th.

So, what are the alternatives to keeping your money in a standard
financial institution? 

Seems to me that keeping it at home is pretty risky - eventually some
low-life will figure it out and then you'll have to choose between your
cash and your left nut.

Keeping it all tied up in goods is not any bargain either. A small
fraction perhaps...

Mike

>From the FDIC site.

Pardon the formatting - it's straight from the .gov.

************************************************************************
http://www.fdic.gov/search97cgi/s97_cgi.exe?action=View&VdkVgwKey=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Efdic%2Egov%2Fbanknews%2Fmanuals%2Fexampoli%2F98FINREC%2Ehtm&DocOffset=1&DocsFound=11&QueryZip=know+your+customer&Collection=www&SortField=Score&SortOrder=Desc&SearchUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Efdic%2Egov%2Fsearch97cgi%2Fs97%5Fcgi%2Eexe%3Faction%3DFilterSearch%26QueryZip%3Dknow%2Byour%2Bcustomer%26Filter%3Dfilters%252Fallwww%252Ehts%26ResultTemplate%3Dfdic%252Ehts%26QueryText%3Dknow%2Byour%2Bcustomer%26Collection%3Dwww%26SortField%3DScore%26SortOrder%3DDesc%26ResultStart%3D1%26ResultCount%3D25&ViewTemplate=view%2Ehts&ServerKey=Primary&AdminImagePath=&Theme=Power&Company=FDIC


"Know>  "
                  Policy

                  One of the most important, if not the most important
means by which financial
                  institutions can hope to avoid criminal exposure to
the institution from customers who
                  use the resources of the institution for illicit
purposes is to have a clear and concise
                  understanding of each customer's practices. The
adoption of " 
                  " guidelines or procedures by financial
institutions has proven extremely
                  effective in detecting suspicious activity by
customers of the institution in a timely
                  manner. 

                  Even though not required by regulation or statute, it
is imperative that financial
                  institutions adopt "  "
guidelines or procedures to enable
                  the immediate detection and identification of
suspicious activity at the institution. The
                  concept of "  " is, by design,
not explicitly defined so
                  that each institution can adopt procedures best suited
for its own operations. An
                  effective "  " policy must, at a
minimum, contain a clear
                  statement of management's overall expectations and
establish specific line
                  responsibilities. While the officers and staff of
smaller banks may have more frequent
                  and direct contact with customers than their
counterparts in large urban institutions, it
                  is incumbent upon all institutions to adopt and follow
policies appropriate to their size,
                  location, and type of business. 

                  Objectives Of "  "
                  Policy

                    1.A "  " policy should
increase the likelihood the
                       financial institution is in compliance with all
statutes and regulations and adheres
                       to sound and recognized banking practices. 
                    2.A "  " policy should
decrease the likelihood the
                       financial institution will become a victim of
illegal activities perpetrated by a
                       customer. 
                    3.A "  " policy that is
effective will protect the good
                       name and reputation of the financial institution. 
                    4.A "  " policy should not
interfere with the
                       relationship of the financial institution with
its good customers. 

                  At the present time there are no statutory mandates
requiring a " 
                  " policy or specifying the contents of such
a policy. However, in order to
                  develop and maintain a practical and useful policy,
financial institutions should
                  incorporate the following principles into their
business practices: 

                    1.Financial institutions should make a reasonable
effort to determine the true
                       identity of all customers requesting the bank's
services; 
                    2.Financial institutions should take particular care
to identify the ownership of all
                       accounts and of those using safe-custody
facilities; 
                    3.Identification should be obtained from all new
customers; 
                    4.Evidence of identity should be obtained from
customers seeking to conduct
                       significant business transactions; and 
                    5.Financial institutions should be aware of any
unusual transaction activity or
                       activity that is disproportionate to the
customer's known business. 

                  An integral part of an effective " 
" policy is a
                  comprehensive knowledge of the transactions carried
out by the customers of the
                  financial institution. Therefore, it is necessary that
the " 
                  " procedures established by the institution
allow for the collection of
                  sufficient information to develop a "transaction
profile" of each customer. The primary
                  objective of such procedures is to enable the
financial institution to predict with
                  relative certainty the types of transactions in which
a customer is likely to be engaged.
                  Internal systems should then be developed for
monitoring transactions to determine if
                  transactions occur which are inconsistent with the
customer's "transaction profile". A
                  "  
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 02:05:18 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Dr. Strangelove on the Y2K Opportunity
In-Reply-To: <50a20d7167d9f00b008bf7c81c8b6ee0@anonymous>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 11:45 PM -0800 11/24/98, Jim Burnes - Denver wrote:

>How many nukes are going to be checking the number
>of days since they last talked to launch control?
>What are the chances they are date sensitive?
>What happens if they should lose contact for
>greater than a certain number of days?  Do they
>assume we've been nuked? How about the russians?
>The Chinese?  What if the entire US DOD C&C network
>goes down.  Is it an EMP?  Is it infowar?  Is it
>Y2K?


(in best Dr. Strangelove German accent)

Ah, but vat vud be ze point of a system designed to automatically respond
to a decapitation of command attack, you see, if it could not independently
decide that it must implement its emergency war orders? Vy vud ve have
programmed them if not to let their processors decide?

Zat ist der beauty von dem system, mein fellow Cypherpunks!

(Dr. Strangelove can no longer restrain his excitement and rolls out of the
room in his wheelchair.)

Hundreds of missile silos, dozens of submarines...all with densepacked code
written in the 60s by persons long retired or dead.

All potentially set for Launch on Warning under the Emergency War Orders.

Worse, the Sovs had more primitive systems, more fragile systems, with at
least a couple of accidental launches that we know about (exploded in their
silos). And no money to even maintain their systems, let alone upgrade and
remediate their flawed code.

(There is much evidence that the Sovs also are using this "we may not be
able to control all of our systems" ploy as more leverage for more
bailouts, more handouts, more buyouts of their obsolete technology. "Send
us another $50 billion and we'll promise to spend some of it hiring
programmers to start looking at our Y2K problems...the rest we'll of course
deposit in the Swiss bank accounts set up for our KGB, GRU, Red Army, and
Party apparatchniks. And our Mafia...mustn't forget our Mafia.")

As I have been predicting for most of this year, the smartest thing our DOD
may do is to use the information chaos of Y2K to go for a DECCOM
(Decapitation of Command) strike as the clock hits midnight in Moscow.
Knock out their sub pens on the Kola Peninsula, hit the missile facilities
in Semipalatinsk, knock out Vladivostok, and do a lay down over Moscow.

A one-way ticket back to the 19th century. A few megadeaths may be a
reasonable price to pay, esp. Russkie megadeaths. As the potato chip ad
puts it, "they'll make more."

In any case, the nuclear accident/counterforce strike scenario is just one
of many reasons I plan to be safely at home as Y2K unfolds, with certain
friends and family, stocked up with various supplies and prepared to watch
the fun unfold.

Safely away from large cities and targets.

--Tim May

"I swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, just the way the President did."
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 23:16:24 +0800
To: Jim Burnes - Denver 
Subject: Re: Y2K Report Card
In-Reply-To: <50a20d7167d9f00b008bf7c81c8b6ee0@anonymous>
Message-ID: <199811251438.GAA17901@smtp.well.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 12:45 AM 11-25-98 -0700, Jim Burnes - Denver wrote:
>> cards to federal agencies.  Three departments 
>> flunked:  Justice; Health & Human Services; and 
>> State.
>
>Wonder what the implications of this are?

HHS? Think Medicare, Medicaid, etc.

-Declan





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ken Williams 
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 23:54:48 +0800
To: "Igor Chudov @ home" 
Subject: Re: [ISN] Feds Want Banks to Spy on All Customers...Even You!  (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199811251500.JAA10213@manifold.algebra.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

On Wed, 25 Nov 1998, Igor Chudov @ home wrote:

>> Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 09:00:29 -0600 (CST)
>> From: "Igor Chudov @ home" 
>> To: Ken Williams 
>> Cc: cypherpunks@toad.com
>> Subject: Re: [ISN] Feds Want Banks to Spy on All Customers...Even You!  
    (fwd)
>> 
>> Ken Williams wrote:
>> > 
>> > 
>> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> > 
>> > 
>> > Good thing I keep all my money in a steel case buried somewhere
>> > along the Appalachian trail.  No bank accounts, no credit cards.
>> 
>> That may be good, but your decision is not costless. You are losing
>> all the interest that could accrue on the money and it is constantly
>> diminished by inflation.
>> 
>> Is it worth it? It's your call, but I do not see what you do as something
>> that is unquestionably wise.
>> 
>> igor

Hi,

Actually, the interest that would be earned through savings accounts
and/or any other bank-related investments is insignificant when 
compared to returns on business investments that can be made without
the interference of the banks and government agencies. 

FYI, I was kidding about the money in the steel case on the App Trail, 
but I really do not have any bank accounts or credit cards.  I have
yet to find an honest banker/bank that can be trusted.

Ken

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Netscape AOL Instant Messenger" 
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 23:54:29 +0800
To: 
Subject: Welcome to Netscape AOL Instant Messenger (AIM)!
Message-ID: <365C4502@oreg-r01.web.aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Welcome to Netscape AOL Instant Messenger!

Thank you for confirming your Netscape AOL Instant Messenger
account.  We're glad you've joined the fastest growing Internet
online community in the world.

To help maintain an online environment that you feel comfortable
with, you can set your own buddy controls.  You can decide who can
see if you're online as well as who can and can't get in touch
with you while online.

For your convenience, your controls have been initially set to allow
other users to contact you online if they know either your e-mail
address or your screen name.  You may change your buddy controls
any time when signed on to Netscape AOL Instant Messenger by doing
the following:

  (On Windows):
    1) Click on the "Netscape AOL Instant Messenger" button
       and select "Options"
    2) Select "Edit Preferences"
    3) Click on the "Controls" tab

By entering the screennames of people for whom you would like to
set special control settings (e.g., "block" the following users
from contacting me or "allow" the following users to contact me) -
you can maintain an online environment that is comfortable for you.
In the future, you can change your settings by returning to the
"Controls" area.

Thanks for joining Netscape AOL Instant Messenger!  Now you can
instantly chat with your AOL and Internet friends with real-time
text messages!  You can even add your Internet friends to your
Buddy List group.  It's easy and it's FREE!

Remember, to communicate instantly with friends on Internet, they
have to register for Netscape AOL Instant Messenger too.  Invite
your friends to register by sending them a personalized invitation!
Sending an invitation encouraging your friends to join is quick and
convenient.  All you have to do is the following:

    1.  Sign on to Netscape AOL Instant Messenger.
    2.  Click the "Netscape AOL Instant Messenger" button and
        select "Sign On A Friend."
    3.  Enter the e-mail addresses of your friends and co-workers.
We'll send them an invitation -- personalized by you -- inviting
them to join the Netscape AOL Instant Messenger service.

For help and additional information, please visit our website
http://www.netscape.com.
For quick tips on getting started with Netscape AOL Instant Messenger,
see the information below.  See you in cyberspace!

-------------------------------------------
Quick Tips on Getting Started
-------------------------------------------

Signing On to Netscape AOL Instant Messenger

Once you've registered, downloaded, and installed Netscape AOL Instant
Messenger, you're ready to start using it.  Here's what you need to do
to sign on (the following instructions apply to Windows 95/NT):

     1.  First, make sure that you're connected to the Internet
         via your Internet Service Provider, school, or office network.
     2.  Launch Netscape AOL Instant Messenger by double-clicking the
         AOL Instant Messenger program icon. (If you aren't sure how to
         locate Netscape AOL Instant Messenger, click the Start menu and
         then select Programs.  From Programs, select AOL Instant Messenger
         and then the AOL Instant Messenger program icon.)
     3.  When you see the "Sign On" window, type or select the
         screen name and password you chose during registration
         in the space provided and click the "Sign On" button.
     4.  Netscape AOL Instant Messenger will then sign you on.

Setting Up Your Buddy List

Once signed on, you'll see the main Netscape AOL Instant Messenger
window which contains two tabs: a box with names in it, and a row
of buttons at the  bottom.  This box is your Buddy List window,
and it shows you the screen names of your buddies online. Your
Buddy List window will have three sample groups that you can use
to begin organizing your buddies: 1) Buddies; 2) Family, and
3) Co-Workers.  (You can change the names of these groups by
highlighting the group name and typing over it - or just add new
ones.)

Personalize your Buddy List by adding your friends' screen names.
To add a new buddy, click on the "List Setup" tab, click the
"Add Buddy" button, and type a friend's screen name.  Do this for
each buddy you want to add. To add a new group, click the
"Add Group" button, and type the name of the new group (like
"soccer team").  Once you've added your buddies, click the
"Online" tab.

If you can't remember someone's screen name, use the "Find a Buddy"
function to first see if the person is a registered Netscape AOL
Instant Messenger ser or not.  If the person is a registered user,
you can look up his or her screen name here.

Sending Your Buddy an Instant Message

When you see a buddy's name in your Buddy List, it means the person
is online and that you can send your buddy an Instant Message (which
is a private, personalized, text message).

There are two ways to send an Instant Message:

    1) Double-click on your buddy's screen name, and a
       "Send Instant Message" window will appear. Type
       your message in the bottom part of the window, and
       click "Send."  Or,

    2) Highlight your buddy's screen name and click on the
       "IM" button. (If your buddy's screen name is not on your
       Buddy List group, then click on the "IM" button and type
       in his or her screen name and a message.)

Either way, after clicking the "Send" button, your message will
"pop up" on your buddy's computer screen.  Then your buddy can send
messages back to you for an instant, private, one-to-one chat.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Patrick Hinsberger " 
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 18:29:28 +0800
To: cypherpunks-unedited@toad.com
Subject: buttsniffer
Message-ID: <365BCFF0.388EBD13@globus.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Hi folk!

Anybody knows how to use Buttsniffer?
I can listen to ethernet frames in our network, but after a few minutes
I`ve got a huge File with over 50MB...
I read that there is an option to listen only to POP3 password and
so funny things...

At the moment I listen the network with the options :
buttsniff -d 0002 pws.txt e

Please mail me directly!!!

ThanX (and Sorry for my fucKKK English!!!)
-@HiNSe@-
 
 


From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 02:50:20 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Dr. Strangelove on the Y2K Opportunity (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811251813.MAA30018@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 09:30:04 -0800
> From: Tim May 
> Subject: Dr. Strangelove on the Y2K Opportunity

> As I have been predicting for most of this year, the smartest thing our DOD
> may do is to use the information chaos of Y2K to go for a DECCOM
> (Decapitation of Command) strike as the clock hits midnight in Moscow.
> Knock out their sub pens on the Kola Peninsula, hit the missile facilities
> in Semipalatinsk, knock out Vladivostok, and do a lay down over Moscow.
> 
> A one-way ticket back to the 19th century. A few megadeaths may be a

That's MEGA-wishful thinking (not to mention more than a tad nuts).

The results of a major nuclear strike would take the human race to a
civilization level more akin to the Sumarians (at best). The ecological,
technological, medical, etc. failures would be impossible to deal with at
our current level of technology.

Potentialy a billion or more people would survive short-term. Nobody in
there right mind would want to trade places with them. Within 20 years the
vast majority of the survivors would be dead. If there would be more than
50M in 60 years over the entire planet I'd be surprised.

If I were setting policy I'd point a bunch/most of my nukes at myself. The
kindest thing I can do for my people is to kill them, the worst thing I
could do for my enemy is leave them alive - they'll eat themselves. Then I'd
sit back and say:

"Fuck with us and we suicide. Oh, we'll take you with us but slowly and by
your own hand."

In the process nuke their major grain belts, water resources, and raw metal
sites, leave their cities and major population centers standing and occupied.

It ain't winnable by either side except by avoidance.



    ____________________________________________________________________
 
             Technology cannot make us other than what we are.

                                           James P. Hogan

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 02:01:30 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: NSA Scientific Advisory Board
Message-ID: <199811251725.MAA14239@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



The NSA Scientific Advisory Board has been functioning
since 1953:

   http://jya.com/nsa-sab97.htm

The 1997 annual report briefly describes what it does and what it 
costs to do it. However, its closed meetings are not announced in 
the Federal Register as required by regulations governing such 
FACA orgs. Names of members, minutes and studies are not 
available. 

We've made a request for info to the NSA office which handles 
the matter (301) 688-6449. 

Any information on the board would be welcome. 

Skimpy annual reports on the NSA SAB, like the one for 1997
above, as well as for all other federal advisory committees, from 
1972 to 1997 are available at:

   http://policyworks.gov/org/main/mc/index-r.htm






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 06:16:38 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: [ISN] Feds Want Banks to Spy on All Customers...Even You!(fwd)
In-Reply-To: <365C3CDB.6F34@lsil.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 9:22 AM -0800 11/25/98, Michael Motyka wrote:

>BTW - the FDIC site state that there is no statutory requirement for a
>'Know Your Customer' system. You could also say that they are not
>interested in little guys, that they need this stuff to do their job,
>but if the laws are written so that anyone can be targeted without a
>warrant then there is a *big* problem. Especially worrisome is automated
>pattern analysis without a warrant - a violation of the 4th.

This is not at all clear.

If Alice has information about Bob, and the cops seek information from
Alice about Bob, and Alice provides it, Bob cannot generally (as I
understand constitutional law) claim any violation of his Fourth Amendment
protections against unlawful search and seizure.

Now maybe Alice can, if they are her records. (As this transfers the
"papers" she is "secure in" to her.) But not if she gives them up
voluntarily or is subject to other regulations.

Specifically, if the Alice Bank, subject to banking regs and suchlike,
gives up information on Bob the Customer, no Fourth A. issues are likely
involved.

(There may  be contractual issues, if Alice has promised Bob that she won't
give up Bob's secrets, and so on.)

I'm not approving of the Feds examining the records of banks, only noting
that the Fourth is not implicated here. From what I know of the law.

(Legal beagles would probably mutter about a penumbra of the Fourth, an
expectation of privacy, etc.)

--Tim May

"I swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, just the way the President did."
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 13:00:26 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Y2K Report Card
Message-ID: <50a20d7167d9f00b008bf7c81c8b6ee0@anonymous>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



AGENCIES GET NEW REPORT CARDS ON Y2K READINESS


Saying "the picture is a gloomy one," Congressman 
Stephen Horn, chair of the House subcommittee 
responsible for overseeing government progress on
averting the Y2K problem, has given out new report 
cards to federal agencies.  Three departments 
flunked:  Justice; Health & Human Services; and 
State.  The Defense Department gets a D-minus.  
Three departments get A grades:  Small Business 
Administration;  Social Security Administration;
and the National Science Foundation.  The Social 
Security Administration began working on the 
problem in 1989, eight years before most other 
government agencies. 


- USA Today, Nov. 24, 1998





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 06:58:14 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: RE: [ISN] Feds Want Banks to Spy on All Customers...Even You!   (fwd)
Message-ID: <5F152E6E8E6FD21195DF00104B2425AD02B2CA@yarrowbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Albert, please do NOT post HTML.

plain-text ASCII with < 80 char wrap ONLY.

	Matt

plain-text version follows:

-----Original Message-----
From: Albert P. Franco, II [mailto:apf2@apf2.com]

> 
>Good thing I keep all my money in a steel case buried somewhere 
>along the Appalachian trail. No bank accounts, no credit cards. 
> 
>Ken Williams 
> 
>>From: ISPI Clips 6.51 
>>From: WorldNetDaily, November 23, 1998 
> 
>Big Brother Banks? FDIC has snooping plans 
>http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_exnews/19981123_xex_big_brother_.shtml

>David M. Bresnahan, David@talkusa.com 
>Contributing Editor, WorldNetDaily 
> 
>Are you a potential criminal? Are you a threat to banks, airlines, a 
>potential spy, or perhaps an IRS tax protester? The government would like 
>to know and they are about to force banks to be their detectives. 


Isn't this called prior restraint? Isn't it specifically illegal for the
government to treat all members of the public as criminals a priori? 

This certainly sounds like one of the grossest cases of
Feds-That-Should-Die(TM) that I have ever heard. I'm sure that the founding
fathers would have been stocking up on gun powder and lead over this one.
And I'm NOT one of the many Libertarian/Money-Gun-and-Gold-Stashing types on
this list. I far and away prefer to work inside the system peacefully. But,
it does give me pause to think about it! 

When a supposedly NON-LEA agency such as the FuckingDICks begins creating
regulations of this sort it is the most blatant proof that the constitution
has died. Perhaps it is time to start draft the next version of the
Declaration of Independence... Actually, we wouldn't need to change much. It
was an excellent document then and now and perhaps it is time shake the dust
off of it! 

Here's my take on a new version, (read carefully the changes in some cases
are subtle): 


THE DECLARATION of INDEPENDENCE 

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
Action of the New Continental Consensus, July 4, 1999 
The Declaration of the People of the United States of America 
------------------------------------------------------------------------ 

WHEN in the Course of human Events, it becomes necessary for one People to
dissolve the Political Bands which have connected them with another, and to
assume among the Powers of the Earth, the separate and equal Station to
which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent Respect
to the Opinions of Mankind requires that they should declare the causes
which impel them to the Separation. 

WE hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal,
that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that
among these are Life, Liberty, Privacy and the Pursuit of Happiness -- That
to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their
just Powers from the Consent of the Governed, that whenever any Form of
Government becomes destructive of these Ends, it is the Right of the People
to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its
Foundation on such Principles, and organizing its Powers in such Form, as to
them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence,
indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed
for light and transient Causes; and accordingly all Experience hath shown,
that Mankind are more disposed to suffer, while Evils are sufferable, than
to right themselves by abolishing the Forms to which they are accustomed.
*But when a long Train of Abuses and Usurpation, pursuing invariably the
same Object, evinces a Design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is
their Right, it is their Duty, to throw off such Government*, and to provide
new Guards for their future Security. Such has been the patient Sufferance
of these people; and such is now the Necessity which constrains them to
alter their former Systems of Government. The History of the present Federal
Government of the United States of America is a History of repeated Injuries
and Usurpation, all having in direct Object the Establishment of an absolute
Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid
World. 

It has refused its Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the
public Good. (Agencies such as the NSA and CIA whose actions are wholly
unsupervised and unchecked.) 

It has forbidden its Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing
Importance, unless suspended in their Operation till its Assent and
modification should be obtained; and when so suspended, it has utterly
neglected to attend to them. (Bastardization of state and local voters
measures threw inappropriate judiciary interference.) 

It has refused to pass other Laws for the Accommodation of large Districts
of People, unless those People would relinquish the Right of Representation
in the Legislature, a Right inestimable to them, and formidable to Tyrants
only. (Pick any agency... none allow for direct representation in their
regulatory actions. Public comment IS NOT direct representation!) 

It has called together Legislative Bodies at Places unusual, uncomfortable,
and distant from the Depository of their public Records, for the sole
Purpose of fatiguing them into Compliance with its Measures. 

It has investigated, harassed, terrorized, and killed members of
Representative Bodies repeatedly, for opposing with its manly Firmness its
Invasions on the Rights of the People. 

It has refused for a long Time, after such Dissolution, to allow others to
act; whereby the Legislative Powers, incapable of the Annihilation, have not
been returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining
in the mean time exposing them to all the Dangers of Invasion from it, and
the Convulsions within. 

It has endeavored to prevent the Population of these States; for that
Purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to
pass others to encourage their Migrations hither, and raising the Conditions
of new ownership of Lands and Properties. 

It has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing its Assent to
Laws for respecting Judiciary Powers. (You can't sue them unless they say
it's OK... And when you do who do you sue?) 

It has made Judges dependent on its Will alone, for the Tenure of their
Offices, and the Amount and Payment of their Salaries. 

*It has erected a Multitude of new Offices, and sent hither Swarms of
Officers to harass our People, and eat out their Substance.* 

It has kept among us, in Times of Peace, Standing Armies, without the
consent or oversight of our Legislatures. (NSA, CIA, IRS, ATF, etc.) 

It has affected to render the Military and National Security Forces
independent of and superior to the Civil Power. 

*It has combined with others to subject us to a Jurisdiction foreign to our
Constitution, and unacknowledged by our Laws; giving its Assent to their
Acts of pretended Legislation:*

FOR quartering large Bodies of Armed Troops among us; 

FOR protecting them, by a mock Trial, from Punishment for any Murders which
they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States: 

FOR cutting off our Trade with all Parts of the World: (ITAR, etc.) 

FOR imposing Taxes on us without our Consent: 

FOR depriving us, in many Cases, of the Benefits of Trial by Jury: (Try to
fight an "infraction" in California!) 

FOR transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended Offences: (Hi CJ!)


FOR abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighboring Province,
establishing therein an arbitrary Government, and enlarging its Boundaries,
so as to render it at once an Example and fit Instrument for introducing the
same absolute Rules into these Colonies: (Ever been to a US territory?) 

FOR taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and
altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments: (Let's hear it for the
IRS and NSA, and now FDIC!) 

FOR suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with
Power to legislate for us in all Cases whatsoever. (Who actually makes tax
regulation?!) 

It has abducted Government here, and declared us under of its Protection and
thus waging War against us. 

It has plundered our Seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our Towns, and
destroyed the Lives of our People. 

It is, at this Time, transporting large Armies of Mercenaries to complete
the Works of Death, Desolation, and Tyranny, already begun with
circumstances of Cruelty and Perfidy, scarcely paralleled in the most
barbarous Ages, and totally unworthy of a civilized Nation. 

It has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive to bear Arms and false
testimony against their Countrymen, to become the Executioners of their
Friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands. 

It has excited domestic Insurrections amongst us, and has endeavored to
bring on the Inhabitants of our Frontiers, the merciless Profiteering Drug
Peddlers, whose known Rule of Warfare, is an undistinguished Destruction, of
all Ages, Sexes and Conditions. (Don't forget Noriega and his CIA buddies.
You wouldn't get even money on the bet that they have changed their ways...)


It has subverted the very essence of the Constitution and Bill of Rights
which gave it birth by perpetrating the following acts of barbarism and
contempt for the people: 

Confiscation of Personal Properties being routinely executed without the
most minimum attempt at DUE PROCESS; 

Routine and massive warrant-less searches and seizures of the personal
communications of the people; 

Commonplace denial of competent legal defense and availability of juries of
one's peers; 

Unconstitutional restrictions of the movement of the people and their
assets; 

Unconstitutional restrictions of the peoples' right to assemble, publicly
and privately and secretly; 

IN every stage of these Oppressions we have Petitioned for Redress in the
most humble Terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by
repeated Injury and imprisonment in State Mental Institutions. A Prince,
whose Character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is
unfit to be the Ruler of a free People. 

NOR have we been wanting in Attentions of our International Brethren. They
have warned us from Time to Time of Attempts by our Legislature to extend an
unwarrantable Jurisdiction over them. They have reminded us of the
Circumstances of our Emigration and Settlement here. They have appealed to
our native Justice and Magnanimity, and they have conjured us by the Ties of
our common Kindred to disavow these Usurpations, which, would inevitably
interrupt our Connections and Correspondence. They too have been denied the
Voice of Justice and of Consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the
Necessity, which denounces our Union in the Spirit of Freedom, and hold
them, as we hold the rest of Mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace, Friends. 

WE, therefore, the People of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, in GENERAL
CONSENSUS, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the World for the
Rectitude of our Intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good
People of these States, solemnly Publish and Declare, That these United
States are, and of Right ought to be, FREE AND INDEPENDENT STATES; that they
are absolved from all Allegiance to the Federal Government, and that all
political Connection between them and the Federal Government of the USA, is
and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as FREE AND INDEPENDENT STATES,
they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances,
establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which INDEPENDENT
STATES may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm
Reliance on the Protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each
other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor. 

Signed, 

The names of course will be changed to protect the innocent... 

I may not be up to the task of editing TJ, but you get the point! 

I was going to send this through an anonymizer and sign it Thomas In Payne.
But Fuck the MIBs. This is MY Opinion Freely Stated as I'm guaranteed by the
Constitution they are so hell bent on destroying. This adaptation of such a
revered document as our dear Declaration of Independence is meant to provoke
thought and perhaps one last effort by many to halt the erosion of the
effectiveness of what was perhaps the most important statement of what a
government should be that the world has ever known. It is time that we take
back our Constitution from the MIB. 

My only question is HOW? 

APF 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 05:14:33 +0800
To: tcmay@got.net (Tim May)
Subject: Re: Dr. Strangelove on the Y2K Opportunity
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199811252016.OAA13071@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Tim May wrote:
> Worse, the Sovs had more primitive systems, more fragile systems, with at
> least a couple of accidental launches that we know about (exploded in their
> silos). And no money to even maintain their systems, let alone upgrade and
> remediate their flawed code.
...

> As I have been predicting for most of this year, the smartest thing our DOD
> may do is to use the information chaos of Y2K to go for a DECCOM
> (Decapitation of Command) strike as the clock hits midnight in Moscow.
> Knock out their sub pens on the Kola Peninsula, hit the missile facilities
> in Semipalatinsk, knock out Vladivostok, and do a lay down over Moscow.
> 
> A one-way ticket back to the 19th century. A few megadeaths may be a
> reasonable price to pay, esp. Russkie megadeaths. As the potato chip ad
> puts it, "they'll make more."

I don't quite understand this.

Look at this from the standpoint of the person in control of the American
arsenal. The goal of this person, to me, seems to be prevention of American
deaths (perhaps by a threat of mutual annihilation).

You say that there is a possibility of a scenario A that some Russian
missiles may be launched accidentally, without a first attack from the US.

To prevent this, you suggest scenario B: a preventative attack against
Russia. I think that your scenario has a higher mathematical expectation
of the number of american deaths than waiting to see if Russians attack
first.

Under scenario B, attack on Russia is a 100% probability event. The
conditional probability of a counterattack is high as well, with the
probability higher (in my judgment) than the probability of a _accidental_
unprovoked attack in scenario A. The conditional expectation of the number
of warheads reaching their targets, assuming that it is a authorized
retaliatory strike, is again higher (in my opinion) than the number of
warheads that would be launched accidentally.

What his means is that scenario B has a higher expectation of american
fatalities. I do not see a point in doing this.

	- Igor.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Jean-Francois Avon" 
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 04:58:51 +0800
To: "e$@vmeng.com" ,       "Sporting Shooters Association of Australia" 
Subject: Fwd: "A MASSIVE BREACH OF PRIVACY"
Message-ID: <199811252000.PAA24853@cti06.citenet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



==================BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE==================
>From: "Breitkreuz, Garry - Assistant 1" 

[Breitkreuz is an elected member of the Canadian Parliement (Reform Party)] 

>To: "'firearms digest'" 
>Subject: "A MASSIVE BREACH OF PRIVACY"
>Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 12:07:23 -0500



PUBLICATION: 	Vancouver Sun 	
DATE: 	98.11.25 	
EDITION: 	FINAL 	
SECTION: 	News 	
PAGE: 	A1 / Front 	
BYLINE: 	Jeff Lee 	
SOURCE: 	Vancouver Sun 	

Feds fear data sold rather than shredded: Huge cache of sensitive
government documents uncovered in Burnaby. 

The federal government believes tonnes of highly-sensitive material,
including tax records, unemployment insurance claims and parole records
were sold intact by a Lower Mainland company that was supposed to shred
and recycle the material, The Vancouver Sun has learned. 
Federal agencies found more than 110 tonnes of unshredded files in a
Burnaby warehouse last July that were being offered for sale by 
West Document Shredding (1995) Inc. 
But they have been unable to determine what happened to nearly another
200 tonnes they know the company was given by National Archives, the
federal agency responsible for disposing of classified and
non-classified documents no longer required by the government. 
And the amount of confidential material sent to  West that
wasn't shredded may actually be much higher -- as much as 600 to 700
tonnes -- said sources who spoke on condition of anonymity, because the
company also obtained documents directly from a number of other
government departments . 
The RCMP's National Security Intelligence Service, which investigated
the security breach, believes all documents were sent to pulp mills for
recycling, even though they weren't shredded, Sergeant John Ward said. 
``We're quite sure that no national security issues were compromised, at
least from our investigation. But I can tell you that we are not happy
about this at all,'' he said, adding that the issue involved a massive
breach of privacy. 
But John Billings, a regional director of Public Works, said he can't
say for certain the material didn't fall into the hands of people who
might use it for improper purposes. 
Sources said confidential information such as social insurance numbers
has a commercial value in criminal circles and can be used for such
purposes as obtaining false identification. 
According to a public works memo obtained by The Sun,  West
apparently sold the material unshredded because it could get a higher
price per tonne than if it had to tear it into unreadable strips as
required under the terms of its contract. 
Les Billett, the owner of  West, denied Tuesday he sold any
confidential documents intact. He said his company couldn't handle the
volume of material the government provided. 
Billett said only a small part of the 110 tonnes seized came from the
government. He said most of it was commercial office paper and estimated
that only 20 or so tonnes was government records. 
But Ward said police confirmed all of the material seized came from the
government, and that it was indeed being offered for sale unshredded. 
Many of the nearly 22,000 boxes sent for destruction contained what the
government calls ``designated'' or protected confidential information
originating from Revenue Canada, Citizenship and Immigration, Human
Resources, National Parole Board, Indian and Northern Affairs, and a
number of other departments. 
The RCMP was also among the agencies whose confidential documents were
found in the tonnes of material seized, he said. Most were low-level
security records from various detachments, as well as the E Division
headquarters, he said. 
 West's contract called for the company to obtain, shred and
recycle 400 tonnes of material from the National Archives warehouse in
Burnaby over a one-year period. It would also get up to 450 tonnes of
material directly from other agencies. 
In return,  West was supposed to pay the government $30.17 for
every tonne it took. Records show public works received at least $7,282,
meaning  West paid for about 241 tonnes of documents, Billings
said. 
But lading bills at the federal storage centre show  West
actually received 292 tonnes, not including any material obtained
directly from other agencies. 



===================END FORWARDED MESSAGE===================






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 05:12:15 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: How to reign the federal government in...
Message-ID: <199811252030.OAA30458@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Start a political party, but the likes of which has never walked the face of
the Earth.

The individual states when acting in a clear majority (>=75%) may pass
Constitutional amendments without the involvement or interference of federal
processes.

The IRS, for example, could be shut down tomorrow or significantly modified
via this mechanism without involvement at the federal level.

What is needed is a political party that has a representative site in each
state capital. Their job is to get proposed amendments to the Constitution
on the floor of each body for vote.

Think nationaly, act by state.

There could be no appeal to the Supreme Court for constitutionality because
it IS the Constitution.

There are no requirements in the Constitution to notify or otherwise
register such acts with the federal authorities. In short, it's none of
their business if the people acting at the state level change the laws at
the federal level. They must either comply or quit their jobs.



    ____________________________________________________________________
 
             Technology cannot make us other than what we are.

                                           James P. Hogan

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Jean-Francois Avon" 
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 04:42:48 +0800
To: "Sporting Shooters Association of Australia" ,       "e$@vmeng.com" 
Subject: Interesting tidbit about media controlling and censoring opinions, Web Polls data manipulated, etc.
Message-ID: <199811252000.PAA24863@cti06.citenet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Tue, 24 Nov 1998 16:03:53 -0600, Ed "Saipan" D. (via CFD V2#714) wrote:

>Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 11:48:13 -0600
>From: dongres 
>Subject: Anne MacLelland has promised

[several paragraph snipped]


[THE FOLLOWING REVEALS A VERY DISTRUBING TENDENCY.  JFA.]
[snip]
>The problem now is missinformation. Public forums
>that generaly shows we are in the majority, are being removed while media incresed
>their pitch. You may have noticed the latest one on Sympatico showed 85% against
>gun control and 15% for it. Now set for 0% to 0%, while sysop says he didn't
>noticed and his female helper ("webmistress") emailed me that there's "no any
>conspiracy" even 'though I never suggested there's any to beggin with. When I
>asked Angus Reids Poll info about their gun control poll they said that they know
>only what is on their website. (And that one wasn't there) They asked me who ever
>mention such poll!!! (as if it didn't existed?) Maybe it does maybe it doesn't. I
>haven't seen the evidence yet. "That's all I'm saying" (to put it in Randy Scott's
>words ;-)

[THE FOLLOWING IS IS A VERY INTERESTING OBSERVATION... JFA. ]

>See, we have to work on demystifying all the "news" we are getting and NEVER TAKE
>ANY at face value. Did you noticed often on the news they show a "talking head"
>with the sound off and CBC own comentator narates what has been said. This is to
>train us to get used to it (communist regime trick I've seen so often) so they can
>put anything to anybody's mouth when needed - and sometimes they do already.
>Nothing new under the Sun.

[large snip]

>Ed "Saipan" D.
>/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Todd Larason 
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 07:23:25 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: Article V - an analysis
In-Reply-To: <199811252258.QAA31290@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <19981125145946.A9497@molehill.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On 981125, Jim Choate wrote:
> Or when Congress is directed by 2/3 of the state legislatures a convention
> can be called for *proposing* amendments

Note that although it's clear that this is only for proposing amendments, our
history leaves some doubt that's what would actually happen.  The current
constitution came ouf of a constitutional convention called under the Articles 
of Confederation to discuss amendments, but was finally enacted under
procedures *it* specified, not the procedures specified in the Articles.

> The only sticky wicket I see is the ...proposed by Congress. Does this mean
> that Congress can decide which of the two it will recognize? 

Historically, Congress has always specified, at the time it proposes the
amendments.  I believe all but the repeal of prohibition were handled using
the legislature method.
-- 
ICQ UIN: 125844100




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Greg Broiles 
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 07:35:42 +0800
To: Tim May 
Message-ID: <4.1.19981125144737.03a03cf0@gabber.c2.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 01:31 PM 11/25/98 -0800, Tim May wrote:

>I'm not approving of the Feds examining the records of banks, only noting
>that the Fourth is not implicated here. From what I know of the law.
>
>(Legal beagles would probably mutter about a penumbra of the Fourth, an
>expectation of privacy, etc.)

No quibbles from me, Tim is correct. Bank record privacy for individuals
and small (< 5 partners) partnerships is governed by the Financial Privacy
Act of 1978 (12 USC 3401 et seq). I've got a short discussion of it online
as part of a larger (and incomplete) survey of federal privacy statutes at
. There are cites to a few of the
bigger/older bank record privacy cases there, if people are interested in
reading further. 

Don't expect confidentiality against the government from a US-chartered
(federal or state) financial institution; you may be able to extract money
from the bank following a disclosure which didn't conform to the
complicated rules for disclosures, but banks are in the business of keeping
cops and shareholders, not customers, happy. There's no real risk that
customers will switch banks because of poor privacy policies because
they've all got the same policies. 

As a general rule, there's no protected/significant expectation of privacy
in information which is disclosed to third parties, absent a special
relationship which would preserve that privacy. The class of special
relationships (roughly, spouse, attorney, doctor, minister) is based on
history/custom and legislation, so you can't create a new one just because
you want to - not even with a contract, because the other party can be
compelled to disclose the information (despite the contract) by subpoena or
via a search warrant. (The Fifth Amendment would only bar such compelled
disclosure if the information tended to incriminate the disclosing party,
and the disclosing party were a natural person, not a corporation.) 


--
Greg Broiles        |History teaches that 'Trust us'
gbroiles@netbox.com |is no guarantee of due process.
                    |_Kasler v. Lundgren_, 98 CDOS 1581
                    |(March 4, 1998)




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Todd Larason 
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 07:48:02 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: Article V - an analysis (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199811252312.RAA31545@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <19981125151157.B9497@molehill.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On 981125, Jim Choate wrote:
> Why is this problematic? When the convention was called it was with the
> express goal of replacing the articles. A tacit a priori admission they were
> faulty and needed replacement.

But that wasn't the goal, at least not the stated goal.  The Convention
was called under the procedures specified in the Articles.  The Convention
itself decided to change the rules for ratification.

> > Historically, Congress has always specified, at the time it proposes the
> > amendments.  I believe all but the repeal of prohibition were handled using
> > the legislature method.
> 
> Did Congress accept the prohibition amendments without a priori specifying
> their submission and implimentation mechanism?

Congress specified in both (all) cases.  For the original prohibition
amendment, they submitted it to state legislatures.  For the repeal amendment, 
they submitted it to state conventions.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Todd Larason 
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 08:09:17 +0800
To: Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer 
Subject: Re: Article V - an analysis (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199811252328.RAA31856@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <19981125153435.C9497@molehill.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On 981125, Jim Choate wrote:
> > > Why is this problematic? 

Whether it's problematic or not depends on your goals.  It gives reason to
doubt that your interpretation of the effects of a Convention called under the 
current constitution would hold, as (as you now say), such a Convention
has the power to change the rules by definition.
 
>It's important to remember as well
> that the original Constitution had to be ratified by all 13 original states
> and not simply 3/4 of them. The choice was unanimous.

It didn't have to be:

Article. VII.

The Ratification of the Conventions of nine States, shall be 
sufficient for the Establishment of this Constitution between the States 
so ratifying the same.


There was a time period (I don't know how long, but certainly no more than
a few months) where some states were operating underthe Constitution and
others were still under the Acts.

> So, however the bill get's to Congress they must specify a method for the
> states to enact. Now the question is how long does Congress get? 

I don't think it specifies, but what has always happened is that the *same
resolution* which proposes the amendment specifies which ratification method
will be used.

> If Congress
> sits around and does nothing can it stall long enough that they can kill the
> amendment process by their own internal procedures? 

There's only a time limit because Congress has started specifying one, in the
same resolution which proposes the amendment and specifies the ratification
method.  (Exception: in the case of the ERA, I believe they later extended the
limit).  The power to specify a time limit isn't mentioned in the Constitution 
as you note, but has also never been tested.
-- 
ICQ UIN: 45940202




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Nilsphone@aol.com
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 05:15:28 +0800
To: Martin.P@parl.gc.ca, e$@vmeng.com
Subject: Re: Interesting tidbit about media controlling and censoringopinions, Web Pol...
Message-ID: <4d95422.365c6a69@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I have noticed something else: 

Our networks (NBC, ABC, CBS etc) will interview a politician, on camera, 
and then immediately afterwards tell the viewers/listeners WHAT HE SAID!

I am not talking about commentary, extrapolations, consequences, comparison
with other opinions, commantaries about the truth or falsehood of what whas
said,
no, the TVnetspeakcritter will  say "Well, we heard President Ougadougou
Cleptocrate 
say that....." even when the interviewee spoke English, or was dubbed. 

Bye the way, for reasons related to those in the original mail, I much prefer
subtitles to dubbing, as the speaker's voice gives away many clues, even if I
am unfamiliar with his language.

Regards

Nils Andersson

>[THE FOLLOWING IS IS A VERY INTERESTING OBSERVATION... JFA. ]

>See, we have to work on demystifying all the "news" we are getting and NEVER
TAKE
>ANY at face value. Did you noticed often on the news they show a "talking
head"
>with the sound off and CBC own comentator narates what has been said. This is
to
>train us to get used to it (communist regime trick I've seen so often) so
they can
>put anything to anybody's mouth when needed - and sometimes they do already.
>Nothing new under the Sun.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 06:12:36 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Intellectual Property is like a banana (McNealy)
Message-ID: <199811252140.PAA30769@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> X-within-URL: http://www.cadence.com/features/vol3No3/mc_nealy

> Do We Worry Too Much About Protecting IP?
> 
>    --> By Scott McNealy 
>    
>    It seems as if everyone's always worried about intellectual property,
>    or IP. We worry about its proprietary nature and how to protect it.
>    But let's take a different angle on IP and also intellectual capital
>    inside a company, because I think we all worry way too much about
>    protecting it.
>    
>    IP has the shelf life of a banana. It just doesn't last, yet we're all
>    worried about protecting it, hiding it, securing it, storing it in a
>    vault. As a result, we absolutely prevent our competitors from getting
>    ahold of it, but we also prevent our employees from getting ahold of
>    it. We prevent our customers - and our suppliers and our partners -
>    from getting access to it. As a result, by the time the people who
>    need access to it get that access, it's so old that it is effectively
>    a banana we wouldn't want to eat.

[text deleted]


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
             Technology cannot make us other than what we are.

                                           James P. Hogan

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 23:47:18 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Nuts & Bolts: the ultimate trojan horse
Message-ID: <199811251509.QAA22018@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




At 11:30 PM 11/24/98 -0800, Tom Jud - US 5-200 Sales wrote:
>
>Call Today 
>To Receive A FREE Nuts & Bolt's '98 CD!

What a perfect Trojan cover.  A program that's *supposed* to 
scan your disk, and *supposed* to dial home for "updates".

And its free, too!








  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 06:59:45 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: How to reign the federal government in... (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811252222.QAA31143@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 22:53:06 +0000
> From: "Douglas L. Peterson" 
> Subject: Re: How to reign the federal government in...

> As per Article V, two thirds of the States can call a Convention to
> propose Amendments. I believe this would be 33 of our current 50 states. 
> Territories and other holding would have no say in this.  At this point,
> if three fourths of the states agree to any proposed Amendments, it becomes
> the law of the land.
> 
> We only need two thirds of the States to start the process, but this
> must be done by their Legislatures.

Which is exactly what I said. The goal of the party would be to get proposed
amendments on the floor each state legislature for vote.

> > The IRS, for example, could be shut down tomorrow or significantly modified
> > via this mechanism without involvement at the federal level.
> 
> I assume this would be either by nullifying Amendment 15 or modifying it
> to a great degree.  Nothing else would work.

That's the way I see it as well, which is the point after all. 

> > What is needed is a political party that has a representative site in each
> > state capital. Their job is to get proposed amendments to the Constitution
> > on the floor of each body for vote.
> 
> Actually, it would not be to get the proposed amendments on the floor. You
> would be putting the proposal for a Convention to amend the Constitution
> on the floor.  In addition, depending on the State, the party would likely
> need to have a member elected to that States Legislature.

Actualy it is. The Convention is only to create the amendment, the actual
vote takes place in the state legislatures, not the convention.

> That is why Article V was written as it was.  It provides a backdoor to
> keep the federal government from getting out of control.

Absolutely. Now, let's kick the beggar in!



    ____________________________________________________________________
 
             Technology cannot make us other than what we are.

                                           James P. Hogan

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 07:28:59 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Article V - an analysis
Message-ID: <199811252258.QAA31290@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



				ARTICLE V. 
 
	[Constitution: how amended; proviso.] 
 
	The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it 
necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the 
Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall 
call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be 
valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified 
by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions 
of the three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification 
may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which shall be 
made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any 
Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first 
Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of it's 
equal Suffrage in the Senate. 

 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- 

The Congress can propose amendments if 2/3 of both houses agree

Or when Congress is directed by 2/3 of the state legislatures a convention
can be called for *proposing* amendments

Irrespective of which of the above two processes causes an amendment to be
considered a part of the Constitution when 3/4 of the state legislatures
vote for it, or by the constitutional conventions called in 3/4 of the state
agree on it. The decision of which method to use may be *proposed* by
Congress.

It's after 1808 and we're not considering state representation in the
Senate so I'll skip the last two phrases.

 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

The only sticky wicket I see is the ...proposed by Congress. Does this mean
that Congress can decide which of the two it will recognize? Or does it mean
that Congress can merely express its desire? Or does this apply only to the
bills that were developed in the Congress? There's no time line for Congress
to decide, could this be used to hinder such a process?

Note that it's important to recognize that we're talking about 3/4n
conventions and not a single convention attended by 3/4n representatives of
the states. The tense of the sentence leaves no doubt.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
             Technology cannot make us other than what we are.

                                           James P. Hogan

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mixmaster 
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 09:35:40 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Maturity Is Needed
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



In response to:                                     cyp

>Jim Choate is so stupid that even when he accidentally gets something
>right, he quickly "corrects" himself so that he is wrong again:
>
>> I had typed x/ln(x) as the asymptotic limit for the number of primes less
>> than x.
>> 
>> This is incorrect. It should be,
>> 
>> x/log(x)

>>Wrong, doofus.  x/ln(x) is the correct asymptotic limit.  What role could
>>logs to the base 10 possibly play?  Do you think God favors the number 10?
>>What a fool you are!Your observations over the years usually seemed 
>>thoughtful, and intelligent, and therefore helpful.

What an human waste this guy is. It reminds me of the 
old days of Reputation. A boorish attack reflects
more poorly on the attacker than the victim, if it is 
an inappropriate attack. Even if stupid, or just mistkaen, 
a comment here is intended toward a larger, instructive 
purpose. This idiot just wastes bandwidth.

Life's too short for this crap. Perhaps it's worth 
trying to reason with people a bit:

Victorian times, like ours today, were a period of huge 
changes, which meant behavioral changes. It cannot be 
an accident that manners, good form, and respectable 
society merged into the legendary image of modern social 
graces. It was done of efficiency, and, so, of necessity.

Inefficient entities decay in capitalism. Manners were 
needed for efficiency. Only today do they seem quaint, 
or insulting of class or social station. They were 
where the action was, among professionals trying to forge 
new economic relationships.

This immature jerk is gonna lose.

An Educated Observer




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 07:36:07 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Article V - an analysis (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811252312.RAA31545@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 14:59:46 -0800
> From: Todd Larason 
> Subject: Re: Article V - an analysis

> Note that although it's clear that this is only for proposing amendments, our
> history leaves some doubt that's what would actually happen.  The current
> constitution came ouf of a constitutional convention called under the Articles 
> of Confederation to discuss amendments, but was finally enacted under
> procedures *it* specified, not the procedures specified in the Articles.

Why is this problematic? When the convention was called it was with the
express goal of replacing the articles. A tacit a priori admission they were
faulty and needed replacement.

Now, why would they ratify the new Constitution under the old rules in such
a situation? They wouldn't. One day the old rules apply, the next day the
new rules apply. It makes more sense to ask folks to recognize the new rules
under their own aegis than some problematic hold-over. No, the intent of the
Constitution was to intentionaly break the ties with the status quo and
precedence.

> Historically, Congress has always specified, at the time it proposes the
> amendments.  I believe all but the repeal of prohibition were handled using
> the legislature method.

Did Congress accept the prohibition amendments without a priori specifying
their submission and implimentation mechanism?


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
             Technology cannot make us other than what we are.

                                           James P. Hogan

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 07:56:59 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Article V - an analysis (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811252328.RAA31856@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 15:11:57 -0800
> From: Todd Larason 
> Subject: Re: Article V - an analysis (fwd)

> On 981125, Jim Choate wrote:
> > Why is this problematic? When the convention was called it was with the
> > express goal of replacing the articles. A tacit a priori admission they were
> > faulty and needed replacement.
> 
> But that wasn't the goal, at least not the stated goal.  The Convention
> was called under the procedures specified in the Articles.  The Convention
> itself decided to change the rules for ratification.

Which is by definition within the powers of such a convention. Their charter
is to come together in order to build a consensus and create from that a
charter for future operations. The litmus test is whether the states are
willing enough to go along with it to actualy do it. They were so the point
was moot. The states called the convention in order to create new proposals
for government, the convention went back to the states with a proposal, the
states looked it over and voted for it. It's important to remember as well
that the original Constitution had to be ratified by all 13 original states
and not simply 3/4 of them. The choice was unanimous.

> Congress specified in both (all) cases.  For the original prohibition
> amendment, they submitted it to state legislatures.  For the repeal amendment, 
> they submitted it to state conventions.

So, however the bill get's to Congress they must specify a method for the
states to enact. Now the question is how long does Congress get? If Congress
sits around and does nothing can it stall long enough that they can kill the
amendment process by their own internal procedures? There is certainly no
time limit imposed by the Constitution so the implication is that Congress
has to wait until the states decide whether that takes a day or a century.
But at the same token there is no implicit time constraint on Congress
either.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
             Technology cannot make us other than what we are.

                                           James P. Hogan

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Todd Larason 
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 09:57:28 +0800
To: "Douglas L. Peterson" 
Subject: Re: Article V - an analysis (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199811252328.RAA31856@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <19981125173059.A10113@molehill.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On 981126, Douglas L. Peterson wrote:
> The Articles of Confederation 
> Article XIII.
> 
> ... And the Articles of this Confederation shall
> be inviolably observed by every state, and the union shall be
> perpetual; nor shall any alteration at any time hereafter be made
> in any of them; unless such alteration be agreed to in a Congress
> of the United States, and be afterwards confirmed by the legislatures
> of every State.

> The convention, the States, and the current Congress did as was
> required under Article XIII.

The Convention did not.  It produced a document which, by ITS rules, went
into effect after having been ratified by 9 of 13 states, not all 13 as
required by Article XIII.
-- 
ICQ UIN: 55350095




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mixmaster 
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 10:22:07 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: Maturity Is Needed
Message-ID: <7ef9c8cd7e2dd595bbaa7feafa5a775d@anonymous>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



In response to:                                     ein

>Jim Choate is so stupid that even when he accidentally gets something
>right, he quickly "corrects" himself so that he is wrong again:
>
>> I had typed x/ln(x) as the asymptotic limit for the number of primes less
>> than x.
>> 
>> This is incorrect. It should be,
>> 
>> x/log(x)

>>Wrong, doofus.  x/ln(x) is the correct asymptotic limit.  What role could
>>logs to the base 10 possibly play?  Do you think God favors the number 10?
>>What a fool you are!Your observations over the years usually seemed 
>>thoughtful, and intelligent, and therefore helpful.

What an human waste this guy is. It reminds me of the 
old days of Reputation. A boorish attack reflects
more poorly on the attacker than the victim, if it is 
an inappropriate attack. Even if stupid, or just mistkaen, 
a comment here is intended toward a larger, instructive 
purpose. This idiot just wastes bandwidth.

Life's too short for this crap. Perhaps it's worth 
trying to reason with people a bit:

Victorian times, like ours today, were a period of huge 
changes, which meant behavioral changes. It cannot be 
an accident that manners, good form, and respectable 
society merged into the legendary image of modern social 
graces. It was done of efficiency, and, so, of necessity.

Inefficient entities decay in capitalism. Manners were 
needed for efficiency. Only today do they seem quaint, 
or insulting of class or social station. They were 
where the action was, among professionals trying to forge 
new economic relationships.

This immature jerk is gonna lose.

An Educated Observer




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 10:52:02 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: the economist on cybercash
Message-ID: <199811260230.SAA07169@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



on disappointing/lackluster acceptance of digital
cash.. mondex,visa,1st virtual,digicash etc

http://www.economist.com/editorial/freeforall/current/index_fn7557.html




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 08:52:57 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Article V - an analysis (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811260035.SAA32058@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 15:34:35 -0800
> From: Todd Larason 
> Subject: Re: Article V - an analysis (fwd)

> On 981125, Jim Choate wrote:
> > > > Why is this problematic? 
> 
> Whether it's problematic or not depends on your goals.  It gives reason to
> doubt that your interpretation of the effects of a Convention called under the 
> current constitution would hold, as (as you now say), such a Convention
> has the power to change the rules by definition.

How? Explain what part of Article V leaves this hole open. Explain the
relevance of the operational proceedures used during the transition from the
Articles to the current Constitution to the modification of the Constitution
itself within the bounds of its own structure? Congress wasn't even involved
in that original process because it didn't technicaly exist until after the
ratification. Why would a precedence involving state legislatures be found
to hold on a national legislature? There is also the issue that the
Constitution once duly implimented is the supreme law of the land and it
takes precedence over precedence.

This is apples and oranges.

Bottem line, if 3/4 of the states ratify there isn't anything that keeps it
from being law. The most that Congress can say is whether it's a direct vote
in the legislature or a vote by convention.

> There was a time period (I don't know how long, but certainly no more than
> a few months) where some states were operating underthe Constitution and
> others were still under the Acts.

Which is relevant how?

> I don't think it specifies, but what has always happened is that the *same
> resolution* which proposes the amendment specifies which ratification method
> will be used.

That can't work if the resolution comes from the states. Only Congress has
the authority to decide that issue. So the only way a proposed amendment can
be placed up for debate and at the same time specify how it is to be voted
on at the state level is if it comes from Congress in the first place. A
proposal submitted by the states would force the debate of how it was to be
decided. Once that was settled it would be passed back to the appropriate
state legislature for direct vote or the initiation of a convention if
sufficient votes could be found.

> There's only a time limit because Congress has started specifying one, in the
> same resolution which proposes the amendment and specifies the ratification
> method.  (Exception: in the case of the ERA, I believe they later extended the
> limit).  The power to specify a time limit isn't mentioned in the Constitution 
> as you note, but has also never been tested.

I assume your speaking of the prohibition amendments again and their limits
(7 years I seem to remember).

That raises an interesting point. Suppose that the states submit an
amendment proposal, can Congress modify it? I'd say not because of the 10th.
If they could then the power of the states to submit amendments would be
moot.



    ____________________________________________________________________
 
             Technology cannot make us other than what we are.

                                           James P. Hogan

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Albert P. Franco, II" 
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 03:52:22 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: [ISN] Feds Want Banks to Spy on All Customers...Even You!   (fwd)
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981125194905.0088b530@209.204.247.83>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/enriched

 >Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 08:26:54 -0500 (EST)
>From: Ken Williams 

>
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
>
>Good thing I keep all my money in a steel case buried somewhere
>along the Appalachian trail.  No bank accounts, no credit cards.
>
>Ken Williams
>
>>From: ISPI Clips 6.51
>>From: WorldNetDaily, November 23, 1998
>
>Big Brother Banks? FDIC has snooping plans
>http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_exnews/19981123_xex_big_brother_.shtml
>David M. Bresnahan, David@talkusa.com
>Contributing Editor, WorldNetDaily
>
>Are you a potential criminal? Are you a threat to banks, airlines, a
>potential spy, or perhaps an IRS tax protester? The government would like
>to know and they are about to force banks to be their detectives. 
>

Isn't this called prior restraint? Isn't it specifically illegal for the government to treat all members of the public as criminals a priori?

This certainly sounds like one of the grossest cases of Feds-That-Should-Die(TM) that I have ever heard. I'm sure that the founding fathers would have been stocking up on gun powder and lead over this one. And I'm NOT one of the many Libertarian/Money-Gun-and-Gold-Stashing types on this list. I far and away prefer to work inside the system peacefully. But, it does give me pause to think about it!

When a supposedly NON-LEA agency such as the FuckingDICks begins creating regulations of this sort it is the most blatant proof that the constitution has died. Perhaps it is time to start draft the next version of the Declaration of In dependance... Actually, we wouldn't need to change much. It was an excellent document then and now and perhaps it is time shake the dust off of it!

Here's my take on a new version, (read carefully the changes in some cases are subtle):

THE DECLARATION of INDEPENDENCE

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Action of the New Continental Consensus, July 4, 1999
The Declaration of the People of the United States of America 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
WHEN in the Course of human Events, it becomes necessary for one People to dissolve the Political Bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the Powers of the Earth, the separate and equal Station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent Respect to the Opinions of Mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the Separation. 

WE hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, Privacy and the Pursuit of Happiness -- That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the Consent of the Governed, that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these Ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its Foundation on such Principles, and organizing its Powers in such Form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient Causes; and accordingly all Experience hath shown, that Mankind are more disposed to suffer, while Evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the Forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long Train of Abuses and Usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object, evinces a Design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their Right, it is their Duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future Security. Such has been the patient Sufferance of these people; and such is now the Necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The History of the present Federal Government of the United States of America is a History of repeated Injuries and Usurpations, all having in direct Object the Establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid World. 

It has refused its Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public Good. (Agencies such as the NSA and CIA whose actions are wholly unsupervised and unchecked.)

It has forbidden its Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing Importance, unless suspended in their Operation till its Assent and modification should be obtained; and when so suspended, it has utterly neglected to attend to them. (Basterdazation of state and local voters measures threw inappropriate judiciary interference.)

It has refused to pass other Laws for the Accommodation of large Districts of People, unless those People would relinquish the Right of Representation in the Legislature, a Right inestimable to them, and formidable to Tyrants only. (Pick any agency... none allow for direct representation in their regulatory actions. Public comment IS NOT direct representation!)

It has called together Legislative Bodies at Places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the Depository of their public Records, for the sole Purpose of fatiguing them into Compliance with its Measures. 

It has investigated, harassed, terrorized, and killed members of Representative Bodies repeatedly, for opposing with its manly Firmness its Invasions on the Rights of the People. 

It has refused for a long Time, after such Dissolutions, to allow others to act; whereby the Legislative Powers, incapable of the Annihilation, have not been returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposing them to all the Dangers of Invasion from it, and the Convulsions within. 

It has endeavored to prevent the Population of these States; for that Purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their Migrations hither, and raising the Conditions of new ownership of Lands and Properties. 

It has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing its Assent to Laws for respecting Judiciary Powers. (You can't sue them unless they say it's OK... And when you do who do you sue?)

It has made Judges dependent on its Will alone, for the Tenure of their Offices, and the Amount and Payment of their Salaries. 

It has erected a Multitude of new Offices, and sent hither Swarms of Officers to harass our People, and eat out their Substance. 

It has kept among us, in Times of Peace, Standing Armies, without the consent or oversight of our Legislatures. (NSA, CIA, IRS, ATF, etc.)

It has affected to render the Military and National Security Forces independent of and superior to the Civil Power. 

It has combined with others to subject us to a Jurisdiction foreign to our Constitution, and unacknowledged by our Laws; giving its Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation: 

FOR quartering large Bodies of Armed Troops among us; 

FOR protecting them, by a mock Trial, from Punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States: 

FOR cutting off our Trade with all Parts of the World: (ITAR, etc.)

FOR imposing Taxes on us without our Consent: 

FOR depriving us, in many Cases, of the Benefits of Trial by Jury: (Try to fight an "infraction" in California!)

FOR transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended Offences: (Hi CJ!)

FOR abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighboring Province, establishing therein an arbitrary Government, and enlarging its Boundaries, so as to render it at once an Example and fit Instrument for introducing the same absolute Rules into these Colonies: (Ever been to a US territory?) 

FOR taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments: (Let's hear it for the IRS and NSA, and now FDIC!)

FOR suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with Power to legislate for us in all Cases whatsoever. (Who actually makes tax regulation?!)

It has abducted Government here, and declared us under of its Protection and thus waging War against us. 

It has plundered our Seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our Towns, and destroyed the Lives of our People. 

It is, at this Time, transporting large Armies of Mercenaries to compleat the Works of Death, Desolation, and Tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty and Perfidy, scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous Ages, and totally unworthy of a civilized Nation. 

It has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive to bear Arms and false testimony against their Countrymen, to become the Executioners of their Friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands. 

It has excited domestic Insurrections amongst us, and has endeavored to bring on the Inhabitants of our Frontiers, the merciless Profiteering Drug Peddlers, whose known Rule of Warfare, is an undistinguished Destruction, of all Ages, Sexes and Conditions. (Don't forget Noriega and his CIA buddies. You wouldn't get even money on the bet that they have changed their ways...)

It has subverted the very essence of the Constitution and Bill of Rights which gave it birth by perpetrating the following acts of barbarism and contempt for the people:

Confiscation of Personal Properties being routinely executed without the most minimum attempt at DUE PROCESS;

Routine and massive warrant-less searches and seizures of the personal communications of the people;

Commonplace denial of competent legal defense and availability of juries of one's peers;

Unconstitutional restrictions of the movement of the people and their assets;

Unconstitutional restrictions of the peoples' right to assemble, publicly and privately and secretly;

IN every stage of these Oppressions we have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble Terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated Injury and imprisonment in State Mental Institutions. A Prince, whose Character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the Ruler of a free People. 

NOR have we been wanting in Attentions of our International Brethren. They have warned us from Time to Time of Attempts by our Legislature to extend an unwarrantable Jurisdiction over them. They have reminded us of the Circumstances of our Emigration and Settlement here. They have appealed to our native Justice and Magnanimity, and they have conjured us by the Ties of our common Kindred to disavow these Usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt our Connections and Correspondence. They too have been denied the Voice of Justice and of Consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the Necessity, which denounces our Union in the Spirit of Freedom, and hold them, as we hold the rest of Mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace, Friends. 

WE, therefore, the People of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, in GENERAL CONSENSUS, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the World for the Rectitude of our Intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these States, solemnly Publish and Declare, That these United States are, and of Right ought to be, FREE AND INDEPENDENT STATES; that they are absolved from all Allegiance to the Federal Government, and that all political Connection between them and the Federal Government of the USA, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as FREE AND INDEPENDENT STATES, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which INDEPENDENT STATES may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm Reliance on the Protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor. 

Signed,

The names of course will be changed to protect the innocent...

I may not be up to the task of editing TJ, but you get the point!

I was going to send this through an anonymizer and sign it Thomas In Payne. But Fuck the MIBs.  This is MY Opinion Freely Stated as I'm guaranteed by the Constitution they are so hell bent on destroying. This adaptation of such a revered document as our dear Declaration of Independence is meant to provoke thought and perhaps one last effort by many to halt the erosion of the effectiveness of what was perhaps the most important statement of what a government should be that the world has ever known. It is time that we take back our Constitution from the MIB.

My only question is HOW?

APF



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 08:06:01 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Nov. 29 column - Christmas book giving
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Subject: Nov. 29 column - Christmas book giving
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    FROM MOUNTAIN MEDIA
    FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE DATED NOV. 29, 1998
    THE LIBERTARIAN, By Vin Suprynowicz
    Give a dangerous book for Christmas


    Pickings have been a little slim, I must admit, for my annual Christmas
book column.

  At the risk of emulating the editors of Rolling Stone, with whom I parted
ways when they started dismissing all the best music of the '70s as
"derivative" (heck, what isn't, Parker and Coltrane are "derivative," and I
happened to (start ital)like(end ital) Eric Carmen and the Raspberries) --
I must admit a certain deja vu at reviewing the 1998 literary crop. These
volumes don't just remind me of better works which made the list in former
years, they often (start ital)cite(end ital) those books, at length.

  1) Well worth mentioning is a "how-to" paperback of about 180 pages, and
one of the few volumes I've read cover-to-cover of late, "Boston on Guns &
Courage," by the pseudonymous Boston T. Party, available from Javelin
Press, P.O. Box 31, Ignacio, Colo. 81137-0031. The book is $17, or $10.20
apiece for six to 31 copies, but the publishers quirkily request payment
only in cash (that gets you an autographed copy) or payee-blank
(negotiable) money orders , threatening to return checks of money orders
with a named payee.

  Mr. Party is of the opinion that the "thugs" who outlawed the private
possession of gold in 1933 "should have been strung up from the first day,"
and properly dismisses many modern gun owners as "serfs with guns,"
demanding "If you won't fight for your Liberty, then sell your guns to us
now before they're confiscated without compensation."

  He then spends the bulk of his book running through the options for
Americans who have finally decided to arm themselves against incipient
tyranny, running through the pros and cons of each caliber and type of
weapon; gun safety; current and likely future gun control laws; how to buy
guns without having them registered ... a handy little book, even if it's
sketchy in places.

  Of course, I disagree with many of the author's specific recommendations.
(In .308 battle rifles, if you can believe it, Mr. Party actually favors
the tin-and-plastic Belgian FN-FAL over the sturdy American M-14 and its
civilian version, the M-1A. Of taste there is certainly no accounting. And
it's a tad careless to recommend the Soviet Tokarev SVT 40 -- "very nicely
made" -- given the weapon's well-known propensity to shred its own firing
pins, isn't it?)

  But in this author we find a kindred spirit,  correctly reporting that
"The feds hope to 'decapitate' the Freedom Movement by simultaneously
arresting and/or eliminating several hundred key people," something they've
already demonstrated with their infiltration via agents provocateurs of the
burgeoning 1990s militia movement, albeit not quite "simultaneously."

  The author quotes Arthur B. Robinson explaining "The gun controllers are
not deterred by the facts about guns and crime, because their primary fear
is not of criminals. They fear ordinary Americans whose lives and freedom
their policies are destroying. In this fear and in their world, they are on
target."

  He gathers together great swatches from books which have already made
this "Most Dangerous" list in previous years (and which are still highly
recommended), including L. Neil Smith's "Pallas," Bill Branon's "Let Us
Prey," Jim Bovard's "Lost Rights" (Laissez-Faire Books at 800-326-0996),
Claire Wolfe's "101 Things To Do Till the Revolution" (Loompanics at
800-380-2230, or Laissez-Faire), and of course John Ross' masterful novel
of the put-upon gun culture, "Unintended Consequences" ($28.95 from
hard-to-find Accurate Press in St. Louis, so try Paladin Press at
800-392-2400, or else Loompanics), from which we again hear:

  "These government slugs ban our guns and they ban our magazines and they
ban our ammo. They ban suppressors that make our guns quieter and then they
ban outdoor shooting ranges because our guns are too loud. They ban
steel-core ammunition because it's 'armor-piercing,' then they close down
our indoor ranges where people shoot lead-core bullets because they say we
might get lead poisoning. ...

  "If we sell one gun that's gone up in value, they can charge us with
dealing firearms without a federal dealer's license, which is a felony. If
we get a dealer's license, they say we are not really in business, and
report us to our local authorities for violating zoning ordinances by
running a commercial venture out of a residence. ...

  "Then, if they suspect we've ignored the $200 tax process, on the guns
where the wood and steel is too long or too short, they'll spend over a
million dollars watching us for months, then they'll shoot our wives and
children or burn us all alive," for which no federal agent has ever spent a
single night in jail.

  And this, mind you, in a nation with a Constitution which guarantees the
federal government will never, in any way, "infringe" the right of the
people to keep and bear military-style arms.


    #   #   #

  2) With a lot less politics and a lot more pictures, my second selection
this year is also a gun book, Timothy Mullin's "Testing the War Weapons,"
in which the author actually carries around and test fires virtually every
surplus military long arm a modern American can lay hands on (and several
we cannot -- who's going to buy (start ital)me(end ital) a Flapper-era,
$3,500, fully-automatic Belgian FN-D?), from the widely-ridiculed Italian
Carcano ("the JFK rifle"), to the grossly overrated German Gewehr 3. Based
on his own quite sensible criteria, Mr. Mullin then fearlessly reports
which of these guns actually prove far handier in the field than one might
expect ... and which prove quite the opposite.

  It's a marvellous project well carried out, in which anyone interested in
old (or not-so-old) military firearms is likely to find a few pleasant
surprises - and probably something to argue with.

  One very big demerit to the editors at Paladin Press  (P.O. Box 1307,
Boulder, CO 80306) for the mediocre quality of the B&W photo reproductions
in "Testing the War Weapons," and for the horrendous proofreading. But this
is still a wonderful book, in 8X10 trade paperback at about $40.

  3) No, our friends and relatives are not going to be reading only about
guns this holiday season. Anyone interested in alternative medicine or the
"War on Drugs" should be happy to receive Steve Kubby's heartfelt and (in
the end) heartwarming book, "The Politics of Consciousness," from
Loompanics Unlimited, P.O  Box 1197, Port Townsend, Wash. 98368.

  Again, Mr. Kubby's work stands on the shoulders of such predecessors as
Jack Herer ("The Emperor Wears No Clothes", Hemp Publishing, Van Nuys,
Calif.), Terence McKenna ("The Archaic Revival," from Bantam Books, and
"Food of the Gods,"  from HarperCollins), and Schultes & Hofmann ("Plants
of the Gods," Healing Arts Press, Rochester, Vermont) which are widely
cited here, and highly recommended (by me) in their own right.

  Mr. Kubby (this year's Libertarian candidate for governor of California,
I believe) is one of those who has come to realize that the War on Drugs is
not merely puritanism given the backing of armed government in violation of
the First Amendment, but something much more insidious and evil yet:
nothing less than the denial of the mental and spiritual health which
mankind is meant to be allowed to achieve, through the direct religious
experiences of the entheogenic (hallucinogenic) plants.

  Chapter headings like "The War on Freedom," "Criminalizing Nature,"
"Western Civilization is the Disease," "Molecular Theology," and
"Downloading the Cosmic Design" give some idea of the delightful
subversiveness of this 150-page, 8X10 paperback, with its psychedelic
cover. But if you want to do some smug Drug Warrior's psyche more harm than
would likely be accomplished by 250 micrograms of orange sunshine, simply
get him or her to read the six-page chapter "Manna from Heaven."

  What (start ital)was(end ital) the bread that fell like rain from heaven
in Exodus Chapter 16, verse 4? What (start ital)was(end ital) the "small
round thing" that "lay as small as the hoar frost on the ground," which had
to be eaten immediately in the morning, lest it "breed worms and stink"?
What (start ital)was(end ital) the God-given substance which was so holy to
the Israelites that they later placed the last of it in a golden pot in the
Ark of the Covenant (Hebrews, Chapter 9, verse 3)?

  Order up a bunch of Mr. Kubby's liberating book, and spread them around.


    #   #   #

  4) Finally comes a book I firmly and fearlessly  recommend, while I also
feel obliged to place my readers' interests above any possible sensitivity
of the author, and thus to offer an unusual caveat:

  Just as some patrons of the visual arts have found delight in the very
refusal of such "primitives" as Grandma Moses to study the rules of
perspective and photographic realism, celebrating on its own terms the
resultant cross between "professional" painting and the decorative folk art
of the quilted bedspread, so must I note that the novel "TEOTWAWKI -- The
End of the World as We Know It," by James Wesley, Rawles (comma as
written), soon to be released in trade paperback from Huntington House
Publishing as "Patriots: Surviving the Coming Collapse," succeeds in a
similar dimension between professional fiction and the delightfully naive
tale-telling of children and the childlike.

  I got my copy - an 8X10 Internet download with a color-copied cover --
from Mike McNulty (author of the Academy Award-nominated video "Waco: The
Rules of Engagement" -- which should be on this list even if it's not a
book) and Bob Glass, publisher of the promising new magazine "The Partisan:
Journal of the American Freedom Fighter" ($20 per year from P.O. Box 1085,
Longmont, CO 80502) at this year's Soldier of Fortune Expo.

  Still hunting for the first good book to be based on the upcoming "Y2K"
crisis, I dug in ... and discovered that Mr. Rawles has indeed put together
a thoughtful, thought-provoking, and well-researched survival manual,
indicating in highly pragmatic terms how folks might well prepare for
social unrest or breakdown of our established economic, commercial and
political order in years to come -- prepare not just to squat on some piece
of dirt, mind you, but to actually maintain a civilized lifestyle.

  Then, Mr. Rawles opted to deck out this intriguing, useful research as a
work of fiction so bad -- by any traditional measure -- as to cross the
line on many occasions into unintentional knee-slapping hilarity.

  The good guys pray to Jesus before each militia foray, and resist
dividing up the gear even of their dead comrades, since that would be
"stealing." The bad guys are -- I think I've got this right -- homosexual
communists who actually carry around copies of Mao's Little Red Book, and
who get their nourishment by preserving the best body parts of the little
human babies they murder in their travels. Eventually, Idaho is invaded (of
course) by a gang of U.N. mercenaries out of Brussels, though of course
they and their tank columns are eventually defeated by the ingenuity and
just plain spunk of the outnumbered Patriot defenders.

  Subtlety? Ambiguity? Not here in God's country, pardner. This thing makes
the movie "Red Dawn" (which I also love) look restrained.

  And yet, in the midst of the nonsense, Mr. Rawles really can write a
quite moving, effective, and realistic scene, as when a lone patriot
rifleman in a well-chosen position sacrifices himself to inflict dozens of
casualties on an advancing enemy column, holding them up for most of a day.


  But I have given fair warning: Just as Mr. Churchill admitted democracy
was a terrible system -- except when compared to all the alternatives -- so
is TEOTWAWKI a jaw-droppingly lunkheaded piece of fiction ... behind which
is hidden a quite useful book, the first useful working sketch of a "Y2K"
scenario which I have yet discovered ... unless we count "Atlas Shrugged"
or "A Canticle for Liebowitz" or "A Boy and His Dog," of course. Which we
probably should.

  (Mr. Rawles also sells pre-1899 antique firearms, which can be purchased
via mail order without federal controls, via Clearwater Trading Co., P.O.
Box 642, Penn Valley, Calif. 95946 -- e-mail rawles@usa.net -- a fine
fellow, surely.)

  Order one of his remaining self-published copies through the same Penn
Valley address at about $28, or via Patriot Products, 6595 Odell Place,
Suite G, Boulder CO 80301, or ask your local bookstore to locate a copy of
the new Huntington House edition, "Patriots: Surviving the Coming Collapse"
(ISBN 1-56384-155-X) from their wholesalers, or via the Huntington House
toll free order line at 800-749-4009.

  And have a merry Christmas.


Vin Suprynowicz is the assistant editorial page editor of the Las Vegas
Review-Journal. Readers may contact him via e-mail at vin@lvrj.com. The web
sites for the Suprynowicz column are at
http://www.infomagic.com/liberty/vinyard.htm, and
http://www.nguworld.com/vindex. The column is syndicated in the United
States and Canada via Mountain Media Syndications, P.O. Box 4422, Las Vegas
Nev. 89127.

***


Vin Suprynowicz,   vin@lvrj.com

The evils of tyranny are rarely seen but by him who resists it. -- John
Hay, 1872

The most difficult struggle of all is the one within ourselves. Let us not
get accustomed and adjusted to these conditions. The one who adjusts ceases
to discriminate between good and evil.  He becomes a slave in body and
soul. Whatever may happen to you, remember always: Don't adjust! Revolt
against the reality! -- Mordechai Anielewicz, Warsaw, 1943

* * *

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Douglas L. Peterson" 
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 06:28:22 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: How to reign the federal government in...
In-Reply-To: <199811252030.OAA30458@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <365C8A52.CF56EC1C@chisp.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate wrote:
> 
> Start a political party, but the likes of which has never walked the face of
> the Earth.

Ok, what kind?

 
> The individual states when acting in a clear majority (>=75%) may pass
> Constitutional amendments without the involvement or interference of federal
> processes.

Ok, lets look at Article V. of the US Constitution.

Article. V.

The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it
necessary,
shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of
the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a
Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be
valid
to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified
by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by
Conventions
in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification
may
be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be
made
prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any
Manner
affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first
Article;
and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal
Suffrage in the Senate [Possibly abrogated by Amendment XVII].


As per Article V, two thirds of the States can call a Convention to
propose
Amendments.  I believe this would be 33 of our current 50 states. 
Territories
and other holding would have no say in this.  At this point, if three
fourths of
the states agree to any proposed Amendments, it becomes the law of the
land.

We only need two thirds of the States to start the process, but this
must be
done by their Legislatures.


> The IRS, for example, could be shut down tomorrow or significantly modified
> via this mechanism without involvement at the federal level.

I assume this would be either by nullifying Amendment 15 or modifying it
to a great degree.  Nothing else would work.


> What is needed is a political party that has a representative site in each
> state capital. Their job is to get proposed amendments to the Constitution
> on the floor of each body for vote.

Actually, it would not be to get the proposed amendments on the floor. 
You
would be putting the proposal for a Convention to amend the Constitution
on
the floor.  In addition, depending on the State, the party would likely
need
to have a member elected to that States Legislature.

Another possibility, again depending on the State is to have a State
Constitutional amendment directing that States Legislature to vote for a 
Convention by a specific date.


> Think nationaly, act by state.
> 
> There could be no appeal to the Supreme Court for constitutionality because
> it IS the Constitution.
> 
> There are no requirements in the Constitution to notify or otherwise
> register such acts with the federal authorities. In short, it's none of
> their business if the people acting at the state level change the laws at
> the federal level. They must either comply or quit their jobs.

That is why Article V was written as it was.  It provides a backdoor to
keep
the federal government from getting out of control.

-Doug
www.TheServerFarm.net




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jan Dobrucki 
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 07:44:50 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: open-pgp / s/mime interoperability
In-Reply-To: <199811242259.WAA04469@server.eternity.org>
Message-ID: <365C8E1D.2A56D16D@qmail.pjwstk.waw.pl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Abstract: "Should I buy PGP or S/MIME?" 


Well, I just want to remind something, something that someone else has
mentioned not so long ago, and it's this: PGP is Open Source, while
S/MIME is not.
This means PGP and it's algorithms have been scrutinized over, while
S/MIME has not... Although this might not be enough to decide weather
to use PGP or S/MIME, I would give a '+' to PGP for making an effort
to be accountable, and a '-' for S/MIME for being secretive.
 
Sincerely,
Jan Dobrucki



DSA is a signature-only algorithm. Consequently, you aren't doing a
"decryption" with it when you evaluate a signature. I recommend you
look in
a crypto source book, like Schneier's "Applied Cryptography" or
Menezes,
van Oorschot, and Vanstone's "Handbook of Applied Cryptography" for
details
of how DSS is done. There is also source code available from a wide
variety
of places.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Paul H. Merrill" 
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 13:58:05 +0800
To: Cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Netscape AOL Instant Messenger Confirmation (kB3bEjeb1I aohelsux)
Message-ID: <000a01be18fe$981008a0$1544ae98@default>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>>Again, some clueless asshole that can't tell the difference between
>>solicited responses and Unsolicited spam mouths off.  If you would like
>>to talk about someone, talk about the jerk who set up an AIM name using
>>the outdated address, not the company that repsonded.
>>
>>PHM
>>
>>AKA PHMerrill@AOL.Com (among other names and addresses)
>
>Again, the clueless asshole known as Paul *H.* Merrill jumps up and defends
>AOL, incompetently-written web sites, and morons everywhere.
>
I obviously don't defend morons everywhere -- I didn't defend Mr Anonymous.

>Someone told AOL to mail cypherpunks@toad.com. AOL could have checked to
see
>if the originating site was under the toad.com domain. This is trivial.
They
>didn't. It's rather easy to just require that somebody trying to mail an
>address under the toad.com domain submit the request from an address under
>toad.com.
>
I regularly send from one domain while requesting a "something" to be dealt
with through another domain.  (A little something called work, for instance.
Shoot, even the ACM.Org address doen't pass that check but it certainly is
valid and unambiguously mine.

>In other words, Paul, you believe that if somebody goes and types your
>address into some system and asks it to send you 512MB of MPEG video,
that's
>okay because it was solicited. It wasn't solicited by you but somebody
>solicited it.
>
My point exactly -- so when you want to ream someone for the half gig MPEG,
ream the requester.

>Oops. That's "blatent propoganda." I'd better rephrase. In other words,
>Paul, you believe that if somebody goes and types YOUR address into fifty
>different systems, signs you up for a bunch of mailing lists, and generally
>causes you a lot of inconvenience, that's okay because it was solicited.
You
>don't know who it was solicited by, but somebody obviously did. If you then
>object to the sites sending you mail rather than just silently
>unsubscribing yourself every week, are you then just 'some clueless
asshole'?
>
The totality is not Okay.  But the individual systems that were solicited to
send are not at fault, assuming that they give me an out.  OTOH the asshole
that requested it all is quite another topic. That "spammer" is the one that
should be taken to task.

>Are spammers now not to be held accountable for their spamming because they
>bought a list of addresses from someone who claimed that the people all
>asked to be on the mailing list?
>
there is a significant difference between buying a list and answering a
request.  Granted that the net effect of having a confirmation message sent
to some one person shows little difference, but the methodology and intent
are nt the same at all.

>Why don't we just sign Cypherpunks up for Ignition-Point, the FP list, the
>ACLU action advisories, Sixdegrees, and whatever else we can find? Or
should
>We just sign up Paul, really, because he doesn't have a problem with this.
>In fact I'm sure we could make some 'marketting research' to show that he
>might be interested. Hey let's get the entire CDR subscription list and
>sign everybody up for FP and ACLU because if you're on Cypherpunks you're
>obviously interested in those things.

The analogous activities have been going on for many years and they have
never been a Good Thing.
>
>The root of the problem is sites which require email addresses for no good
>reason, and/or don't have the decency to perform a simple check to see if
>the domains match. They're lazy. They're irresponsible. When confronted, no
>matter how civil, they react much like you do, Paul, and they don't want to
>be inconvenienced by having to fix their usually badly-designed web sites.
>
Anyone that believes that a domain check will do anything other than check a
domain is delusional.  Hey, they even think like the post awful -- one
person, one email address.

>If I recall correctly Tim has the same opinion and has stated it a few
>times as have others so I'm not alone.
>
>Now I leave you, Paul, so you can go back to your 24 hour vigil and you and
>your quick response team can scour the net for attacks against AOL and the
>true clueless assholes, and defend them with your last breath.
>
Why, thank you.  But it is not really needed.
>Yet Another 'Clueless Asshole'
>
I never cease to be amazed at how little grasp of the concept of causality
so many presumably technically literate people are today.

When one wishes to remove a problem, it is a much better approach to attack
the cause than to attack the symptom.

PHM




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Paul H. Merrill" 
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 14:09:23 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Re: Netscape AOL Instant Messenger Confirmation (kB3bEjeb1I aohels
Message-ID: <005d01be1901$01b2a860$1544ae98@default>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




-----Original Message-----
From: lcs Mixmaster Remailer 
To: paul h. merrill ; cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com

Date: Wednesday, November 25, 1998 12:20 AM
Subject: Re: Re: Netscape AOL Instant Messenger Confirmation (kB3bEjeb1I
aohels


>Do you even bother to read the posts you try to flame? Read the last part
of
>that.
>
Yes, I do.  I do not buy the domain check idea due to the unworkability in a
changing and multi-faceted society.  I do not buy the concept the anyone
that sends a piece that you don't want is a "spammer" (there really are
enough of them out there already without diluting the Title through
misnomers.) I do not buy attacking symptoms and ignoring causes -- and in
this case Causers.

PHM

>Paul H. Merrill wrote:
>>
>>Again, some clueless asshole that can't tell the difference between
>>solicited responses and Unsolicited spam mouths off.  If you would like
>>to talk about someone, talk about the jerk who set up an AIM name using
>>the outdated address, not the company that repsonded.
>>
>>PHM
>>
>>AKA PHMerrill@AOL.Com (among other names and addresses)
>>
>>Anonymous wrote:
>>>
>>> This does wonders for my opinion of AOL. Even the administration has no
clue.
>>>
>>> AOL administration spammed the Cypherpunks  list,
using
>>> an address for Cypherpunks which has been defunct for over a year now,
with:
>>>
>>> >Thank you for registering for Netscape AOL Instant Messenger!
>>> >
>>> >Your registration for screen name aohelsux has been received.
>>> >
>>> >Please reply to this message within 48 hours to complete
>>> >the registration process.  Simply reply to the present message
>>> >and type 'OK' as the text of your message.
>>>
>>> P.S. "Well they just responded to an address someone gave them," like
>>> certain advocates of AOL, lamers, and Microsoft we have on the list have
>>> said, is not an excuse. It's easy to set up domain validation. The
spammers
>>> just don't care.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Douglas L. Peterson" 
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 08:54:36 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: How to reign the federal government in... (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199811252222.QAA31143@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <365CAEA9.791CDC76@chisp.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate wrote:
> 
> Forwarded message:
> 
> > Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 22:53:06 +0000
> > From: "Douglas L. Peterson" 
> > Subject: Re: How to reign the federal government in...
> 
> > As per Article V, two thirds of the States can call a Convention to
> > propose Amendments. I believe this would be 33 of our current 50 states.
> > Territories and other holding would have no say in this.  At this point,
> > if three fourths of the states agree to any proposed Amendments, it becomes
> > the law of the land.
> >
> > We only need two thirds of the States to start the process, but this
> > must be done by their Legislatures.
> 
> Which is exactly what I said. The goal of the party would be to get proposed
> amendments on the floor each state legislature for vote.
[snip]
> > > What is needed is a political party that has a representative site in each
> > > state capital. Their job is to get proposed amendments to the Constitution
> > > on the floor of each body for vote.
> >
> > Actually, it would not be to get the proposed amendments on the floor. You
> > would be putting the proposal for a Convention to amend the Constitution
> > on the floor.  In addition, depending on the State, the party would likely
> > need to have a member elected to that States Legislature.
> 
> Actualy it is. The Convention is only to create the amendment, the actual
> vote takes place in the state legislatures, not the convention.
> 

The actual vote takes place in the state legislatures AFTER the
convention.
The party would need to work for the convention or the proposed
amendments
would never get the the state legislatures.

-Doug
www.TheServerFarm.net




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Douglas L. Peterson" 
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 08:53:40 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: Article V - an analysis
In-Reply-To: <199811252258.QAA31290@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <365CAF45.27B97897@chisp.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate wrote:
> 
>                                 ARTICLE V.
> 
>         [Constitution: how amended; proviso.]
[snip]

> The only sticky wicket I see is the ...proposed by Congress. Does this mean
> that Congress can decide which of the two it will recognize? Or does it mean
> that Congress can merely express its desire? Or does this apply only to the
> bills that were developed in the Congress? There's no time line for Congress
> to decide, could this be used to hinder such a process?

It seemed very clear to me that the "proposed by Congress" is refering
to any amendment proposed by Congress.

-Doug




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Douglas L. Peterson" 
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 09:48:30 +0800
To: Todd Larason 
Subject: Re: Article V - an analysis (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199811252328.RAA31856@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <365CBB46.34293003@chisp.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Todd Larason wrote:
>> 
>> Why is this problematic? When the convention was called it was with the
>> express goal of replacing the articles. A tacit a priori admission they were
>> faulty and needed replacement.
>
>But that wasn't the goal, at least not the stated goal.  The Convention
>was called under the procedures specified in the Articles.  The Convention
>itself decided to change the rules for ratification.

If you look at the relevent section of the Articles of Confederation,
you will see this is not a problem.

The Articles of Confederation 
Article XIII.

Every State shall abide by the determinations of the United States
in Congress assembled, on all questions which by this Confederation
are submitted to them. And the Articles of this Confederation shall
be inviolably observed by every state, and the union shall be
perpetual; nor shall any alteration at any time hereafter be made
in any of them; unless such alteration be agreed to in a Congress
of the United States, and be afterwards confirmed by the legislatures
of every State.


The convention, the States, and the current Congress did as was
required under Article XIII.

-Doug
www.TheServerFarm.net




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: BADJEEP97@aol.com
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 18:17:43 +0800
Subject: CABLE  TV DESCRAMBLER........Now Only $7.00 !
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




This is really cool!                    

              
            PREMIUM CHANNELS........Descrambled!              

                                         

EASY to assemble plans for only $7.00 !


YOU WILL BE WATCHING all your FAVORITE PAY STATIONS
featuring  MOVIES, SPORTS. Adult entertainment,
and any other scrambled signal NEXT WEEK!

You can EASILY assemble a cable descrambler in less than 30 minutes!
You have probably seen many advertisments for similar plans.........
BUT OURS are BETTER! 

We have compared it to all the others and have actually
IMPROVED the quality and SIMPLIFIED the design !!!


**  We even include PHOTOS! **


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We have NEW, EASY TO READ,EASY to assemble plans for only $7.00! 
We have seen them advertised for as much as $29.00 and you have 
to wait weeks to receive them!       


WHAT THE OTHERS SAY IS TRUE!

Parts are available at  "The TV HUT"  or any electronics store.  
Trademark rights do not allow us to use a national electronics 
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Call and ask them BEFORE you order! 
They are very familiar with these plans! 
 


You will need these easy to obtain parts :

 270-235                        mini box
 271-1325                       2.2k ohm resistor 
 278-212                        chasis connectors
 RG59 coaxial cable             #12 copper wire 
 Variable capacitor


     They may have to  special order the variable capacitor,
     But WHY WAIT for a special order?  WE have them!


     WE have secured a supply of the capacitors directly from
     the manufacturer and We WILL include one with your plans
     for an ADDITIONAL  $10.00 only!
    

     All you need now is the EASY TO ASSEMBLE plans to
     show you how this educational device in 30 MINUTES! 

 It is LEGAL, providing of course you use these plans for 
 EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES only. See first hand and LEARN how this
 SIMPLE circuitry works! If you intend to use these plans for
 any other purpose DO NOT ORDER them.  
   

 IT'S FUN TO BUILD!  


We're sure you'll enjoy this project!                            
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                Learn how easy descrambling is!           

                $ 7.00     for plans only                        
                
                $10.00     for variable capacitor only            

                $17.00     for The easy to assemble plans and one 
                            variable capacitor!	

                 


Please send check or money order payable to:           

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P.O. Box 11752
San Rafael, Ca.
94912         		            

WE pay postage and handling!          
Please allow 14 days for delivery.


This is a one time only mailing!  You have already 
been placed on our remove list and will not receive
another offer from us! 

Thank
You


























































From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 03:24:02 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: enemy of the state movie
Message-ID: <199811261745.JAA08594@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



fun wired article on new movie "enemy of the state"
with privacy /cpunk implications. bamford quoted,
info on NSA, rotenberg, spy satellites, etc.

http://www.wired.com/news/news/culture/story/16507.html




happy xgiving folks
I am thankful for cyberspace





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 03:24:30 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: old posts saved/archived/privacy article, salon
Message-ID: <199811261752.JAA08923@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



salon article on how old posts are saved on the net,
and how it affects privacy.  "I felt helpless and
violated" sez one poor hapless chic

http://www.salonmagazine.com/21st/




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 03:24:02 +0800
To: jd@well.com
Subject: salon article reply
Message-ID: <199811261801.KAA09463@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



dear Mr. Lasica:
your article is mostly fair and accurate but fails to 
delve into some obvious and basic issues.

1st, check out david brin's recent book on privacy.. you
cover only a tiny facet of the issues, of people that
argue privacy should be protected. consider a very interesting
alternative view..

2nd: it is easy to take any digital image of a naked woman
and paste the head of any other person on top of it, to the
point that it is indistiguishable from a real picture. tell
this to the mother of the daughter who's naked pictures were
posted.

3rd: you fail to mention anonymity/pseudonymity, the starkly obvious
solution to all the pseudo-problems you raise. your article
is fairly mild but reflects the constant refrain of journalists
to phrase every news story as some kind of looming or
scary crisis.

the issues you speak of have been debated among cpunks for
years with more insight. not expecting you to know abut cpunks,
but you coulda done a teeny better on that article.

a decent article nonetheless on important issues..

please purchase a few clues from the nearest cpunks and
try,try again.

take care




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: holist 
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 03:28:48 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199811261817.KAA27682@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I wonder if this is also old hat to you people. If it turns out to be
another FAQ, I promise to read some.

At a conference in Budapest yesterday (held by Network Associates) I was
interpreting for a certain professor Christoph Fischer, from Karlsruhe
University. He claimed to be a premier international hacker-hunter and
described several fascinating cases, such as industrial espionage performed
by the French secret service commissioned by French companies at Boeing and
Siemens (the latter resulting in a 6 billion Deutschmark railway contract
going to a French company rather than Siemens), as well as a case of
extortion in Germany, when someone he referred to as "some crazy person"
attempted to blackmail the German government by threatening to fly model
aircraft into the turbines of commercial jet aircraft at take-off, which, as
it turned out, is indeed a feasible means of causing a major disaster. 
The professor was called in by a panicky German government, about ready to
send off the cash, to try to locate "the crazy person".

The extortionist was sending the notes via e-mail, using what the professor
referred to as "e-mail anonymiser servers" in the US. "This is not too
widely publicised", he went on to say, "but all insiders are aware that all
e-mail anonymiser services in the U.S. are operated by the FBI." He went on
to say it took them about ten minutes to discover with the help of their
American friends which account the mail was originating from. A more serious
obstacle was posed by the fact that it was an AOL account and that the
subscriber had specified a bogus credit-card number generated by widely
available software for generating feasible bogus credit-card numbers, and
installed the internet applications from one of those AOL CD-ROMs that were
published in very large numbers. They were forced to begin monitoring some
30 thousand phonelines (another very interesting fact: according to the
professor, during the so-called "4+2" negotiations just before the Berlin
wall came down, the two Germanies agreed to provide the FBI with direct
access to the backbone of the German telephone network - consequently all
German telephone calls and a high percentage of all European international
calls, so they could listen in on those without even making an effort - in
fact, he claimed, it is easier for the FBI to listen to German phonecalls
than it is for the German authorities themselves), which, in addition to
costing a horrendous amount of money, resulted in a bunch of data every day
that took them two days to process. So, Fischer said, it would have been
hopeless if the fellow had not owed the German tax authority one and a half
million Marks - the tax authority busted him (following the lines of their
own, independent investigation), took his computer, and he was busted.


Quite a few of the messages to cypherpunks seem to come from anonymous
remailers in the US.


Comments?

holist




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Burnes - Denver 
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 04:03:02 +0800
To: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Subject: Re: enemy of the state movie
In-Reply-To: <199811261745.JAA08594@netcom13.netcom.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Thu, 26 Nov 1998, Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote:

> fun wired article on new movie "enemy of the state"
> with privacy /cpunk implications. bamford quoted,
> info on NSA, rotenberg, spy satellites, etc.
> 
> http://www.wired.com/news/news/culture/story/16507.html
> 

In this article Judy DeMocker writes....

    The scenario of an innocent man being digitally
    hounded through tunnel and building, traced to
    pay phones and 7-Eleven surveillance systems,
    and exposed by a digital trail of personal
    information, is overblown. Most store cameras are
    not hooked up to outside systems, and databases
    are not so rapidly accessible that a government
    agent could pull up a suspect's past addresses,
    personal history, bank, and telephone records in
    the blink of an eye. 

I don't know about pay phone tracing, though I imagine voice print
identification could be done.  Don't know what 7-eleven does with their
videocams other than record it onto video tape, but I can speak about the
databases... 

Pulling up a suspects past addresses, personal history, bank and telephone
records can be done very quickly. Past addresses and personal
history could be pulled very rapidly through credit agencies.  Mean income
level, kids, their ages, past employment etc.  I've seen this done in
about 20 or 30 seconds.  Bank records could probably be snatched from
FINCEN.  Telephone records might take a court order if done legally, but I
wouldn't put it past FBI or CIA to infiltrate telephone companies. CIA was
already found to be infiltrating the press when investigated by the Church
commission. What have they done since?

For those that have done background investigations on these agencies this
is a little like expecting to be shocked when told "sister smokes!"  For 
those that have been to busy to check or care it might come as a 
surprise.  For Wired it's inexcusable.  If they would be remove
just 5% of the hype and replace it with a little reality it might
be a lot for valuable.

Wired's editors need to pay a little bit more attention to detail.

That being said I haved enjoyed some of the articles, such as
those by Declan and Charles Platt.

A little less flourescent ink, a little more content.

jim






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: James Hillenbrand 
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 04:23:06 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Anon Mail Server?
Message-ID: <4.1.19981126144821.00944b80@pophost.suffolk.lib.ny.us>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



What is a good server that I could send mail through anonymously..

--


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
      -------==== James Hillenbrand ====-------              
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
              ICQ NUMBER (UIN) : 7621556                           
     PERSONAL E-MAIL : JamezHill@Audiophile.com     
     ALT. E-MAIL : MegaHertz@Audiophile.com  
     HOMEPAGE : http://www.ThePentagon.com/DaMaGe 
     NOTES : Pumpin' BASS lower than you can hear 
             and louder than you can stand!  
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- 
      




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Wei Dai 
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 08:07:43 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: PipeNet 1.1 and b-money
Message-ID: <19981126153349.A12001@eskimo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I've discovered some attacks against the original PipeNet design. The new
protocol, PipeNet 1.1, should fix the weaknesses. PipeNet 1.1 uses layered
sequence numbers and MACs. This prevents a collusion between a receiver
and a subset of switches from tracing the caller by modifying or swaping
packets and then watching for garbage.

A description of PipeNet 1.1 is available at
http://www.eskimo.com/~weidai.

Also available there is a description of b-money, a new protocol for
monetary exchange and contract enforcement for pseudonyms. 

Please direct all follow-up discussion of these protocols to cypherpunks.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 03:24:00 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: ATF funding voice recognition research
Message-ID: <199811261657.RAA16004@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




ATF - Proof of concept task - Prototype automated firearms licensing and
verification system which integrated voice recognition and reverse voice
recognition, telecommunication, Internet to query ATF database across LANs
and WANs 

http://www.0-1.com/y_ats.htm

The company doing the research seems to be a beltway-bandit
("minority owned" mil-welfare) type place.

They're also evaluating sniffers for DISA...



	"Semtex --better than duct tape"












  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Steve Moyzis 
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 08:26:32 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: PipeNet 1.1 and b-money
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19981126175936.4c4f8cc2@mailhost.chi.ameritech.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I don't know if this was supposed to have gone to Bugtraq, or it came to me
because I 'visited' their "snoop server" acoupla times.  If you already rec'd
the original, then "Never Mind".

>Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 15:33:49 -0800
>From: Wei Dai 
>To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
>Cc: onions@itd.nrl.navy.mil
>Subject: PipeNet 1.1 and b-money
>Sender: owner-onions@itd.nrl.navy.mil
>
>I've discovered some attacks against the original PipeNet design. The new
>protocol, PipeNet 1.1, should fix the weaknesses. PipeNet 1.1 uses layered
>sequence numbers and MACs. This prevents a collusion between a receiver
>and a subset of switches from tracing the caller by modifying or swaping
>packets and then watching for garbage.
>
>A description of PipeNet 1.1 is available at
>http://www.eskimo.com/~weidai.
>
>Also available there is a description of b-money, a new protocol for
>monetary exchange and contract enforcement for pseudonyms. 
>
>Please direct all follow-up discussion of these protocols to cypherpunks.
>




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 10:30:09 +0800
To: holist 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981126220233.008f83d0@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 10:17 AM 11/26/98 -0800, holist wrote:
>I wonder if this is also old hat to you people. If it turns out to be
>another FAQ, I promise to read some.
> [Bogus saga deleted, about extortionist using anonymizers threatening
> the German government, and claiming the FBI runs the anonymizers.]

I haven't _seen_ Lance Cottrell's NSA ID badge, but many of the hard-core 
cypherpunks have them - it's amazing how official things look when they're 
laminated in plastic!  Even the one with Hugh Daniel in a tie... 

Anonymizers don't do very well for extortion yet.
Sending the anonymous message is the easy part - paper mail is much
better at anonymity, since there's much more of it, and the default
collection methods in most countries are anonymous.

Then you've got to get the targets to READ email - some do, some don't.
Email to most politicians is like paper mail to most of them - 
gets sorted by the pound, and if there's money attached you'll
get a thank-you note.

It's collecting the ransom money that's hard - without Digicash,
there's no good anonymous payment mechanism.  

>Quite a few of the messages to cypherpunks seem to come from anonymous
>remailers in the US.

I usually post anonymous postings from the Netherlands, myself.
It simplifies jurisdictional questions.
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 10:37:24 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: European Commission proposal on legal framework for e-commerce
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981126234500.008f8af0@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Forwarded from cyberia-l -- The EU's latest attempts to
make electronic commerce convenient while ensuring tax collection
and preventing collapse of governments :-)

========= ====
]] THe text of the new draft is not on line yet, but will probably appear at
]] http://europa.eu.int/comm/dg15/en/index.htm  in the next few days (there is
]] a what's new button on the left hand bar)

>>> Should be on line on Nov 23rd
} Another URL to remember to get acces to european documents 
} concerning Internet law is :
} http://www2.echo.lu/legal/en/labhome.html  and for "what's new :
} http://www2.echo.lu/legal/en/labnew.html

===============

http://europa.eu.int/rapid/start/cgi/guesten.ksh?p_action.gettxt=gt&doc=IP/98/999|0|RAPID&lg=EN

IP/98/999

Brussels, 18 November 1998

Electronic commerce: Commission proposes legal framework

A proposal for a Directive to establish a coherent legal framework for the
development of electronic commerce within the Single Market has been put
forward by the European Commission. The proposed Directive would ensure
that information society services benefit from the Single Market principles
of free movement of services and freedom of establishment and could provide
their services throughout the European Union (EU) if they comply with the
law in their country of origin. Such services are defined as those provided
normally against remuneration, at a distance, by electronic means and in
response to the individual request of a customer. The proposed Directive
would establish specific harmonised rules only in those areas strictly
necessary to ensure that businesses and citizens could supply and receive
information society services throughout the EU, irrespective of frontiers.
These areas include definition of where operators are established,
electronic contracts, liability of intermediaries, dispute settlement and
role of national authorities. In other areas the Directive would build on
existing EU instruments which provide for harmonisation or on mutual
recognition of national laws. The Directive would apply only to service
providers established within the EU and not those established outside.

"The Single Market's legal framework, combined with the single currency,
provide the European Union with a unique opportunity to facilitate the
development of electronic commerce", commented Single Market Commissioner
Mario Monti. "Electronic commerce adds a new dimension to the Single Market
for consumers in terms of easier access to goods and services of better
quality and at lower prices. Electronic commerce will promote trade,
stimulate innovation and competitiveness and create sustainable jobs. This
proposal should ensure that the Union reaps the full benefits of electronic
commerce by boosting consumer confidence and giving operators legal
certainty, without excessive red tape."

The global electronic commerce market is growing extremely fast and could
be worth ECU 200 billion by the year 2000. Worldwide, 86 million people
were connected to the Internet by the end of 1996 and by 2000, this is
expected to reach 250 million individuals. Within the EU, it is estimated
that more than 400,000 jobs related to the information society were created
between 1995 and 1997 and that one in four news jobs is derived from these
activities.

Scope

The proposal for a Directive, which was foreseen in the Commission's April
1997 electronic commerce Communication (see IP/97/313), covers all
information society services, both business to business and business to
consumer services, including services provided free of charge to the
recipient e.g. funded by advertising or sponsorship revenue and services
allowing for on-line electronic transactions such as interactive
teleshopping of goods and services and on-line shopping malls. Examples of
sectors and activities covered include on-line newspapers, on-line
data-bases, on-line financial services, on-line professional services (such
as lawyers, doctors, accountants, estate agents), on-line entertainment
services such as video on demand, on-line direct marketing and advertising
and services providing access to the World Wide Web.

Establishment/supervision/transparency

The proposal would define the place of establishment as the place where an
operator actually pursues an economic activity through a fixed
establishment, irrespective of where websites or servers are situated or
where the operator may have a mail box. This definition is in line with the
principles established by the EU Treaty (Article 52) and the case law of
the European Court of Justice. Such a definition would remove current legal
uncertainty and ensure that operators could not evade supervision, as they
would be subject to supervision in the Member State where they were
established. The proposal would prohibit Member States from imposing
special authorisation schemes for information society services which are
not applied to the same services provided by other means. It would also
require Member States to oblige information society service providers to
make available to customers and competent authorities in an easily
accessible and permanent form basic information concerning their activities
(name, address, e-mail address, trade register number, professional
authorisation and membership of professional bodies where applicable, VAT
number).

On-line contracts

For electronic commerce to develop its full potential, it must be possible
for contracts to be concluded on-line unrestricted by inappropriate rules
(such as a requirement that contracts be drawn up on paper). The proposal
would therefore oblige Member States to adjust their national legislation
to remove any prohibitions or restrictions on the use of electronic media
for concluding contracts. In addition, the proposal would ensure legal
security by clarifying in certain cases the moment of conclusion of the
contract, whilst fully respecting contractual freedom. These provisions
would complement the proposal for a Directive on electronic signatures (see
IP/98/423).

Liability of intermediaries

To facilitate electronic commerce, it is necessary to clarify the
responsibility of on-line service providers for transmitting and storing
information from third party (i.e. when service providers act as
"intermediaries").

To eliminate existing legal uncertainties and to avoid divergent approaches
at Member State level, the proposal would establish an exemption from
liability for intermediaries where they play a passive role as a "mere
conduit" of information from third parties and limit service providers'
liability for other "intermediary" activities such as the storage of
information. The proposal strikes a careful balance between the different
interests involved in order to stimulate co-operation between different
parties and so reduce the risk of illegal activity on-line.

Commercial communications

Commercial communications such as advertising and direct marketing, which
are an essential part of most electronic commerce services, would be
subject to clearly defined rules under the proposed Directive. The proposal
defines what constitutes a commercial communication and makes it subject to
certain transparency requirements to ensure consumer confidence and fair
trading. In order to allow consumers to react more readily to harmful
intrusion, the proposal requires that commercial communications by e-mail
are clearly identifiable. In addition, for regulated professions (such as
lawyers or accountants), the proposal lays down the general principle that
the on-line provision of services is permitted and that national rules on
advertising shall not prevent professions from operating Web-sites.
However, these would have to respect certain rules of professional ethics
which should be reflected in codes of conduct to be drawn up by
professional associations.

Implementation

Rather than inventing new rules, the proposal would seek to ensure that
existing EU and national legislation were effectively enforced. The
development of a genuine Single Market based on mutual confidence between
Member States - is stimulated by strengthening enforcement mechanisms. The
proposal would seek to do so by encouraging the development of codes of
conduct at EU level, by stimulating administrative co-operation between
Member States and by facilitating the setting up of effective, alternative
cross-border dispute settlement systems. The proposal would also require
Member States to provide for fast, efficient legal redress appropriate to
the on-line environment and to ensure that sanctions for violations of the
rules established under the Directive were effective, proportionate and
dissuasive.

Mutual recognition/derogations

The proposed Directive would clarify that the Single Market principle of
mutual recognition of national laws and the principle of control in the
country of origin must be applied to information society services so that
such services provided from another Member State are not restricted for
reasons falling within the scope of the proposal which would not cover
taxation, personal data (the free movement of which is covered by Directive
95/46 see IP/98/925), the activities of notaries, representation and
defence of clients before a court, gambling activities. Furthermore, the
proposed Directive would not interfere with the application of the Brussels
Convention on jurisdiction, recognition and enforcement of judgements in
civil and commercial matters and the Rome Convention on the law applicable
to contractual obligations.

The proposed Directive would also allow Member States on a case by case
basis to impose restrictions on information society services supplied from
another Member State if necessary to protect the public interest on grounds
of protection of minors, the fight against hatred on grounds of race, sex,
religion or nationality, public health or security and consumer protection.
However, such restrictions would have to be proportionate to their stated
objective. Moreover, such restrictions could only be imposed (except in
cases of urgency) after:

*  the Member State where the service provider was established had been
asked to take adequate measures and failed to do so and
*  the intention to impose restrictions had been notified in advance to the
Commission and to the Member State where the service provider was
established.
In cases of urgency, the reasons for the restrictions (and the urgency)
would have to be notified in the shortest possible time to the Commission
and to the Member State of the service provider. Where the Commission
considered proposed or actual restrictions were not justified, Member
States would be required to refrain from imposing them or urgently put an
end to them.

The proposal for a Directive on a legal framework for electronic commerce
will be forwarded to the European Parliament and the EU's Council of
Ministers for adoption under the co-decision procedure.


==========================================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 10:18:25 +0800
To: Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer 
Subject: Re: Article V - an analysis (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199811252328.RAA31856@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981127000007.008f8af0@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 03:34 PM 11/25/98 -0800, Todd Larason wrote:
>On 981125, Jim Choate wrote:
>> If Congress
>> sits around and does nothing can it stall long enough that they can kill the
>> amendment process by their own internal procedures? 
>
>There's only a time limit because Congress has started specifying one, in the
>same resolution which proposes the amendment and specifies the ratification
>method.  (Exception: in the case of the ERA, I believe they later extended the
>limit).  The power to specify a time limit isn't mentioned in the Constitution 
>as you note, but has also never been tested.

The most recent amendment (27th?) sat around for nearly 200 years
before 3/4 of the states ratified it,  (preventing Congress from 
raising their salaries during their current term.)  
The power to specify a time limit doesn't need separate mention; 
the time limit is either part of the proposed amendment, or it isn't, 
and it's part of the negotiations for getting Congress to pass it.

The more dangerous problem is that people keep suggesting a 
Constitutional Convention, which has basically no limits on its scope
(especially given the one previous precedent, which substantially
increased Federal power beyond the limits of the Articles,
and didn't require unanimous consent to adopt its product,
though the Articles required it for changing them.)
Even if the states _say_ they're limiting their delegation to
specific tasks, that doesn't mean the ConCon won't exceed them,
and if it gets sufficient media/public support, it can get away with it.

Don't expect the 2nd, 9th, or 10th amendments to survive a ConCon at all,
or the 1st to have any meaning resembling its current limited one,
or the 4th or 5th to get by without "except for drugs or other
politically incorrect substances" attached to it, or the 
definitions of rights or powers to resemble what you want.

(There have been some Libertarian proposals to add
"and this time we mean it" to the end of the 9th and 10th,
or to add a period after the 1st's "Congress shall make no law",
but they're not in keeping with the spirit of the age :-)

				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 10:19:38 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Rootfest
Message-ID: <199811270149.CAA30480@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



http://slashdot.org/articles/98/11/26/1841245.shtml

"RootFest is a conference for the computer underground,
as well as the computer security professionals,
engineers, networking people, feds, script kiddies, and
anyone else who would like a chance to meet people and
learn. When: RootFest 99 will be held May 21-23, 1999.
Where: Minneapolis, Minnesota,..."

RootMonger




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Brown, R Ken" 
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 19:19:41 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Evil Bandwidth Plot Exposed
Message-ID: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F85CB@MSX11002>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



We're still getting clueless people forwarding us email virus hoaxes.
Pen-Pal, Buddy Frogs, Good Times, whatever.

And I just realised who has to be responsible!  Who has a motive for this
"crime"?  These things do no-one any real harm, they just take up
bandwidth.  Networks get saturated and maybe we have to buy more kit. It
must be the router manufacturers. Maybe there is a secret team at Cisco or
IBM generating new  hoaxes  to keep the email market growing.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 12:58:34 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Old Hat
Message-ID: <199811270421.FAA13900@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On the morning of Thurs, 26-Nov-98 at 10:17:48 -0800, holist 
unwisely said:

> "This is not too widely publicised", he went on to say, 
> "but all insiders are aware that all e-mail anonymiser 
> services in the U.S. are operated by the FBI."

> Quite a few of the messages to cypherpunks seem to come 
> from anonymous remailers in the US.
> 
> Comments?

Comment? COMMENTS? How about this, FUDSpreaderBreath: Stick
Fischer and his claims up your ass.

This is not too widely publicised , I 
went on to say, but all insiders are aware that this kind 
of FUD is unadulterated ratshit. While there is no doubt
_some_ official presence in the remailer network, the
proposition advanced here is preposterous.

> He went on to say it took them about ten minutes to 
> discover with the help of their American friends which 
> account the mail was originating from.

It would probably take more than ten minutes just to find
the phone number of their FBI contact, much less find him
at his desk and not humping some summer intern, much less 
expect that he would know a remailer from his no doubt 
ultra-tight asshole, much less have him run down the 
pointy-haired manager to give him permission to find and 
communicate with a suitably cleared propellor head, much 
less find that the remailer in question was, indeed, 
operated either by them or by their snaky friends over at 
the NSA, much less check their surreptitious logs for the 
offending traffic, much less find that that traffic indeed 
did not originate from another remailer _not_ under their 
control, etc. etc.

Ten minutes, in bureaucrat time, is about what it takes
to rub two brain cells together to make a realistic 
approximation of a human thought. By this time, action
in the physical universe is still a long, long way off.

This report is likely to be nothing more than a complete
fabrication of the facts, even if the underlying case was
real.

> just before the Berlin wall came down, the two Germanies 
> agreed to provide the FBI with direct access to the 
> backbone of the German telephone network

Except that telephone networks don't have "backbones."
More fantasy. And there was no single "German telephone
network," and probably still isn't.

> it is easier for the FBI to listen to German phonecalls 
> than it is for the German authorities themselves), which, 
> in addition to costing a horrendous amount of money,
> resulted in a bunch of data every day that took them two 
> days to process.

Highly doubtful. First, it's not in the FBI's brief to be
doing large-scale foreign-based surveillance of foreign
telephone systems. Second, there is no reason to believe
that the FBI would have a substantially easier time of 
processing large amounts of resulting data than would 
the Germans. The Germans know how to use computers, too,
and being congenitally statist, they no doubt have more
facilities in place closer to the sources of information
than do U.S. authorities at home or abroad.

This claim also ignores the fact that the FBI have their
hands full right at home and don't have the resources to
be conducting large-scale surveillance of the phone calls
of entire foreign nations. Oh, sure, we see increasing
extraterritorial operation by small numbers of FBI, but
that doesn't equate to monitoring the entire German phone
system(s) or a significant segment thereof and identifying 
some nitwit dialing in to AOL.

Is AOL even _in_ Germany? If so, what is it called, GOL?
Gassholes On Line?

The idea that a state security apparatus would find an AOL
account to be a significant obstacle is laughable.

> So, Fischer said, it would have been hopeless if the 
> fellow had not owed the German tax authority one and 
> a half million Marks - the tax authority busted him 
> (following the lines of their own, independent 
> investigation), took his computer, and he was busted.

So we are to believe that after monitoring the entire German
telephone system to identify who was calling in and using
a particular AOL account, and successfully pegging him,
the Germans were powerless to do anything, and had to 
call down their Tax Zombies to have an excuse to grab
the guy's computer, which presumably then provided them
with the "evidence" against him. Right.

If the German authorities overhear in a bar that you might 
have forbidden literature, they will be there the same night, 
ransacking your home. How is it that with evidence that a 
certain person was the user of an AOL account they had 
identified as the source of extortionary messages, they were 
powerless to break down his door? 

I could admire the FUD spreaders just a teensy bit if they
weren't so completely brain dead. They can't even invent a
plausible FUD scenario.

That the USG is operating one or more remailers is a 
no-brainer. That they are operating _all_ U.S. remailers
is beyond the realm of reality. That the FBI has more than
a casual hand in such things is not likely.

Running remailers would be right up the NSA's, uh, alley,
but maintaining a traffic watch on virtually _all_ 
remailers worldwide would be much more their style. Now 
_there's_ an opportunity for the spooks to have some real 
fun, though it's anything but certain they would be willing
to "share," for a variety of reasons. The capabilities they
have are protected as secrets even more than the information
they gather.

FUDBusterMonger

It Ain't FUD til I SAY it's FUD!




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 08:18:38 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Otaku Defined
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Resent-Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 05:31:08 -0500
X-Sender: dphelan@mailhost.pavilion.co.uk
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 07:45:22 +0000
To: "Lord Myren" , wear-hard@haven.org
From: David Phelan 
Subject: [WAY OFF TOPIC] Otaku Defined (was Re: Japanese Technomads )
Mime-Version: 1.0
Resent-From: wear-hard@haven.org
X-Mailing-List:  archive/latest/5977
X-Loop: wear-hard@haven.org
Precedence: list
Resent-Sender: wear-hard-request@haven.org
Status: U

At 13:16 25/11/1998 PST, Lord Myren wrote:

>Otaku is translated from japanese meaning "fan."  This is a somewhat
>flawed translation in that there is no way to transfer the powerful
>connotative meaning.
>


>Unfortunately, I believe something was lost in the translation in the
>article.  Otaku is rarely used in refence to things other than anime.
>This article may have failed the translation or may just be a minor
>mislabeling.  Otaku can be used in reference to things other than anime,
>however it is rarely ever so.

>From a no-longer online magazine called JapanInterface (used to be at
http://www.php.co.jp/japaninface/):

Nerds of a Feather

Defining OTAKU
by Bill Marsh


IN TOKYO a recently arrived friend calls, wants to know daishikyu (ASAP,
yesterday) what otaku means. He's just been told by a mutual acquaintance
that no serious student of contemporary Japan could possibly not know this
word-yet his Japanese accuser, when
asked to define otaku, refuses even to try.

It isn't easy.

Once upon a time, this word-which taken alone translates as "[your]
honorable house"-was no more than an obsequious, laboriously indirect way
to say "you" or "you and yours." Snobs and bluestockings will use it, but
there's nothing inherently sinister about the
expression. The story doesn't end there.

Japan has long produced bumper crops of korekuta ("collectors" of rare
stamps, cars, etc) and mania (folks with a "mania" for Beatles bootlegs,
etc) who gather at conventions to compare notes and stockpiles. Haughty yet
insecure, many greet each other by asking, Otaku wa nani o nasatteru desu
ka? This fastidious formula for inquiring "What're you into?" or "What's
your thing?" became a trademark, prompting trend-watchers to smugly label
them otaku-zoku (nerd tribes).

Enter Tsutomu Miyazaki, arrested in 1989 and eventually charged with the
abduction and murder of four little girls. Here was a man capable of
videotaping himself cutting up a dead child and sending her bones, the
video, and photos of her sandals and clothes to the
victim's parents in a cardboard box. When a search of his premises
uncovered an eclectic collection of 5,000 videotapes, the image of otaku as
benign, shy dorks disintegrated.

Surprise! Japan's police and media, used to playing to the crowd and
blandly riding herd on the occasional misfit, discovered during the
affluent 1980s that their grip on a population easily tamed by fears of
what the neighbors might think was slipping. Popping up all over were
intense, asocial creatures on very private missions for very private gods.
Shunning contact with all but their brethren in obsession, they sent to
o-mawari-san (the neighborhood cops who in Japan regularly "check up" on
each household) a silent but clear message: Nothing personal, but what I'm
into is the kind of thing you and people like you would never understand.

Are otaku garden-variety nerds? Psychopaths? Undesirables? What otaku
connotes depends on who you ask. Example: A producer friend recently
berated his director on an NHK project for shooting from otaku camera
angles. The point? He wanted to make a TV program for general audiences,
not film-school coteries.

The foreword to the superb but dated (1989) Otaku no hon (The Otaku Book,
published by JICC) argues that otaku are strictly a post-1980 phenomenon,
not the latest gimmick in the ephemeral parade of zoku (tribes) that
postwar youth-culture reportage has
served up. Their break with the values of seken (the "real world," as the
editor parenthetically labels it in English) is not a byproduct of kodoku
(isolation) or seijuku (adolescence). Rather, otaku desire to dokuji no
sekai ni chujitsu ni ikiru (live faithfully in their own world) and find a
ba (place, outlet) to meet others who onaji genso o kyoyu suru (share the
same fantasy).

The editor offers the example of the rorikon (otaku with a "Lolita
complex"): deeply unwilling to become men (i.e., husbands and salarymen),
they partake instead of kyodo genso (communal fantasy) via comic books
about kaku no bi-shojo (imaginary beautiful
girlchildren). Their female equivalents in ambivalence are the yaoi-zoku,
girls hooked on perverted, plotless, sexually explicit parodies of
conventional comics about the friendship between cute boys. Obviously
neither homosexual nor homophobic, both groups
prefer the chaste option of onani (onanism) to the perceived compromises of
marital consummation.

Otaku no hon presents an amazing variety of strategies for sidestepping the
social compact. Even familiar types like hakka ("hackers"), gema ("gamers,"
computer game freaks), or aidorian ("idol-ians," who fixate on singing
idols) seem more over the top
than their American counterparts. Others, like kamera-kozo ("li'l camera
monks" who sneak crotch shots with concealed strobe cameras) and akushon
banda ("action banders" devoted to cracking officially "secure" radio and
computer systems), aggressively court risks to enact their pranks.

Whatever their stripe, the otaku are out there in droves, rifling through
the latest aniparoetchimangadojinshi
(animation-parody-pervert-comic-connoisseur-mag) at the corner bookstore,
terrified that any minute they'll be eaten alive by common
sense.

from Pop Japanese, Bill Marsh's ongoing column in MANGAJIN magazine


Hope that is useful
Dave Ph



--------------------------------------------------------------
 Dave Phelan                         dphelan@pavilion.co.uk
 CCIE# 3590     http://freepages.pavilion.net/users/dphelan

 "Anyone who isn't confused really doesn't understand the
 situation."                            -- Edward R. Murrow

--
Subcription/unsubscription/info requests: send e-mail with subject of
"subscribe", "unsubscribe", or "info" to wear-hard-request@haven.org
Wear-Hard Mailing List Archive (searchable): http://wearables.ml.org

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Wolfgang Scherer 
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 14:55:49 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Old Hat
In-Reply-To: <199811270421.FAA13900@replay.com>
Message-ID: <13918.17985.297162.770002@farmer.simul.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




>>>>> "A" == Anonymous   writes:

A> Is AOL even _in_ Germany? If so, what is it called, GOL?
A> Gassholes On Line?

Yes it is. It's called AOL. "Alles On-Line" == "All [of it] On Line".
But it also translates well to "Arschlöcher On-Line" == "Assholes On
Line".  :)




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Eric Cordian 
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 02:12:19 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: A tad more on Goldbach's...
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199811271736.LAA15186@wire.insync.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Tim Writes to Jim Choate:

> Ditto for your bizarre theories about how electric fields work, about
> how charges inside conducting spheres don't follow Gauss's Law, and
> other crankish theories about electricity. 

Don't forget Mr. SQUID, which can read the registers on your
tamper-resistant smartcard from several miles away.  :)

-- 
Eric Michael Cordian 0+
O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division
"Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 10:18:12 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981127120630.00902100@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 05:27 PM 11/23/98 -0600, Jim Choate wrote:
>> From: "Jim Adler" 
>> The SCNSM driver supports allocation of non-swappable memory on Windows
>> 3.x/95/98. The principal design goal of SCNSM is to provide memory that will
>> not be swapped to disk, under any circumstances. Typically, security
>> applications require such memory to store private keys, passwords, and
>> sensitive intermediate results of cryptographic calculations.

>1.  Is it OpenSource?
Is this a religious argument?  I think he said it was copyrighted freeware,
so use it and leave the copyright notices in and you're ok.

>2.  I assume since it never swaps to disk the memory requirements for the
>    computer are large. What is the minimum suggested if one runs say
>    5 apps that each require 16M each, 5*16M & OS overhead?

Bad Assumption.  The memory requirements are whatever you want;
if you're storing a few private keys, or intermediate calculation results,
the requirements are very small; if you're storing 16MB databases,
they're much larger.  For today, 16MB seems large enough that
I'd think you'd use a crypto-disk or instead of nailing it into RAM,
but the boundaries between huge, routine, and small keep moving
in this business, so maybe you do now, and you will soon enough.

Does anybody know if Win95/98 keeps RAMdisks in RAM, or swaps them
out to real disk along with other least-recently-used data?
Since I've got 48MB RAM on my laptop, I keep a 2MB RAMdisk around
for PGP decrypts, and for temporary storage of things like
emailed ZIP files.  

>    And what is the suggested OS overhead with no swap to disk?
>    (OK, that last one might be a 3rd question)

That's a good question.  My guess is that it's probably 0-2KB,
plus however big the drivers are, might be as big as 64KB,
but presumably isn't 1MB.  In other words, too small to worry about
on recent machines, where an extra 16MB RAM costs $10,
but if you're using that spare 4MB 386 as a remailer,
you've got to be more careful.

On the other hand, if the driver does anything for real-mode DOS processes
running on top of Windows, it wouldn't surprise me if you've
got to nail down 640KB while they're running?
But you knew that job was clunky when you took it.
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 10:27:21 +0800
To: "Bernardo B. Terrado" 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981127122206.00902100@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 08:54 AM 11/19/98 +0800, Bernardo B. Terrado wrote:
>Well I thought this list was a list of intellectuals, not only good in 
>hacks and coding and programming and the likes but also well "tailored"
>with their manners,  I have posted similar mails asking something but I
>have never received one like this. At least the less obvious thing to do
>is to ignore my message, simply delete it!, is that a hard thing to do?

Yo, Bernie - until you started asking for pirated commercial software,
I was wondering whether you were trolling by asking newbie questions
or just a real newbie who hadn't looked at any of the literature yet.  
Knapsacks are, after all, broken long ago, and anything written 
since about 1980 that talks about them will also say that.

I'd recommend getting Bruce Schneier's "Applied Cryptography"
and spending a while with it, then looking for academic stuff
beyond that if you want, and also reading the documentation for PGP
for practical stuff (in particular, Phil's comments on Snake Oil.)
There are also some FAQs out there, such as the sci.crypt FAQ.
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 03:55:42 +0800
To: users@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (SSZ User Mail List)
Subject: Scientific American: Science and the Citizen: BEATING THE TEMPEST: (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811271931.NAA02644@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:
>From stugreen@realtime.net Fri Nov 27 00:31:17 1998
Sender: root@coney.lsd-labs.com
Message-ID: <365E45CB.549F4085@realtime.net>
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 06:25:15 +0000
From: Stu Green 
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.36 i586)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: ravage@einstein.ssz.com
Subject: Scientific American: Science and the Citizen: BEATING THE TEMPEST: 
 December 1998
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

http://www.sciam.com/1998/1298issue/1298techbus4.html




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 12:09:53 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Fwd: FC: EU eavesdropping on Iridium satellite phone system
Message-ID: <199811280332.TAA02042@smtp.well.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



any reactions? some of my newspaper colleagues are thinking of writing
about this...


>Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 14:12:45 -0800 (PST)
>From: Declan McCullagh 
>To: politech@vorlon.mit.edu
>Subject: FC: EU eavesdropping on Iridium satellite phone system
>X-No-Archive: Yes
>Sender: owner-politech@vorlon.mit.edu
>Reply-To: declan@well.com
>X-Loop: politech@vorlon.mit.edu
>X-URL: Politech is at http://www.well.com/~declan/politech/
>
>
>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 22:08:00 +0100
>From: Erich Moechel 
>To: Declan McCullagh , declan@well.com
>Subject: EU eavesdropping on Iridium System
>
>
>It is really a ghastly paper, we obtained. It is the first ever "Enfopol" 
>paper that leaked out from United European Police Working Group. 
>Not even the EU's STOA-commission that brought Echelon in2 EU-
>Parliament this spring was given the predecessor 2 "Enfopol 98"
>cu
>me 
>
>The European Surveillance Union
>
>Erich Moechel 20.11.98 
>
>Europol Seeks a Broad Structure for Tapping Mobile 
>Communications 
>
>Austrian officials' appetite for coldly broadening their authority to 
>monitor private citizens is in no way a unique case in Europe. 
>
>As a Europol internal document obtained by Telepolis shows, 
>massive attempts on the part of European police forces are 
>underway to acquire the ability to eavesdrop on the Iridium system, 
>currently in a sensitive stage of expansion. 
>
>The document entitled "Enfopol 98" from the group "Police 
>Cooperation" dated September 3, 1998, deals with the "observation 
>of telecommunications" and primarily addresses the so-called 
>satellite-supported personal communication systems (S-PCS), but 
>also the Internet. On the recommendation of the European Union, a 
>list of points desired by the European police was drawn up as a 
>"Draft for a Recommended Resolution" in order to simplify the 
>passage of the resolution. The terrestrial gateway stations are to 
>provide comprehensive access via Iridium and other Mobile Satellite 
>Services (MSS) since they are "collective and simple locations for 
>monitoring solutions." 
>
>http://www.telepolis.de/tp/english/inhalt/te/1667/1.html
>-.-.- --.-  -.-.- --.-  -.-.- --.-
>     q/depesche taeglich ueber
>internationale hacks--.-zensur im netz
>crypto--.-IT mergers--.-monopole
>& die universalitaet digitaler dummheit
>subscribe http://www.quintessenz.at
>-.-.- --.-  -.-.- --.-  -.-.- --.-
>Certified PGP key http://keyserver.ad.or.at 
>-.-.- --.-  -.-.- --.-  -.-.- --.-
>erich-moechel.com/munications
>++43 2266 687201 fon  ++43 2266 687204 fax
>-.-.- --.-  -.-.- --.-  -.-.- --.-
>
>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 00:25:04 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Securing data in memory (was "Locking physical memory (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811281551.JAA04132@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 12:06:30 -0500
> From: Bill Stewart 
> Subject: Re: Securing data in memory (was "Locking physical memory
>   (RAM) under Windows") (fwd)

> >1.  Is it OpenSource?
> Is this a religious argument?  I think he said it was copyrighted freeware,
> so use it and leave the copyright notices in and you're ok.

Where does he say that Bill? And while it ain't religious, there are some
perferences to having it open source versus controlled source.

> >2.  I assume since it never swaps to disk the memory requirements for the
> >    computer are large. What is the minimum suggested if one runs say
> >    5 apps that each require 16M each, 5*16M & OS overhead?
> 
> Bad Assumption.  The memory requirements are whatever you want;

Wrong, since the ENTIRE OS is run under this it's not nearly that simple.
The OS's internal swap page as well as by extension the contexts they point
to are going to be sitting in there. The app should also encrypt the address
spaces of the system structures.

> if you're storing a few private keys, or intermediate calculation results,
> the requirements are very small; if you're storing 16MB databases,
> they're much larger.  For today, 16MB seems large enough that
> I'd think you'd use a crypto-disk or instead of nailing it into RAM,
> but the boundaries between huge, routine, and small keep moving
> in this business, so maybe you do now, and you will soon enough.

Where in that description does it say it allows particular apps to use this
product?

> Does anybody know if Win95/98 keeps RAMdisks in RAM, or swaps them
> out to real disk along with other least-recently-used data?

You don't know this but you're willing to try to rake me....

Talk about unprepared.

> >    And what is the suggested OS overhead with no swap to disk?
> >    (OK, that last one might be a 3rd question)
> 
> That's a good question.  My guess is that it's probably 0-2KB,
> plus however big the drivers are, might be as big as 64KB,
> but presumably isn't 1MB.  In other words, too small to worry about
> on recent machines, where an extra 16MB RAM costs $10,
> but if you're using that spare 4MB 386 as a remailer,
> you've got to be more careful.

Your guess is pretty much worthless. What we'd like is an aswer from the
person who wrote it.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
             Technology cannot make us other than what we are.

                                           James P. Hogan

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 00:26:41 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Article V - an analysis (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811281557.JAA04199@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 00:00:07 -0500
> From: Bill Stewart 
> Subject: Re: Article V - an analysis (fwd)

> The most recent amendment (27th?) sat around for nearly 200 years
> before 3/4 of the states ratified it,  (preventing Congress from 
> raising their salaries during their current term.)  
> The power to specify a time limit doesn't need separate mention; 
> the time limit is either part of the proposed amendment, or it isn't, 
> and it's part of the negotiations for getting Congress to pass it.

Really? Where do you see that in the Constitution?

> The more dangerous problem is that people keep suggesting a 
> Constitutional Convention, which has basically no limits on its scope

And where do you see unlimited power assigned at under Article V?

> (especially given the one previous precedent, which substantially
> increased Federal power beyond the limits of the Articles,
> and didn't require unanimous consent to adopt its product,
> though the Articles required it for changing them.)

That isn't a precedence.

> Even if the states _say_ they're limiting their delegation to
> specific tasks, that doesn't mean the ConCon won't exceed them,
> and if it gets sufficient media/public support, it can get away with it.

Sure it does, then the states remove their support and it isn't a convention
anymore.


				ARTICLE V. 
 
	[Constitution: how amended; proviso.] 
 
	The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it 
necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the 
Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall 
call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be 
valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified 
by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions 
of the three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification 
may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which shall be 
made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any 
Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first 
Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of it's 
equal Suffrage in the Senate. 
 
 

    ____________________________________________________________________
 
             Technology cannot make us other than what we are.

                                           James P. Hogan

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 00:24:27 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: European Commission proposal on legal framework for e-commerce (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811281558.JAA04252@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 23:45:00 -0500
> From: Bill Stewart 
> Subject: European Commission proposal on legal framework for e-commerce

> A proposal for a Directive to establish a coherent legal framework for the
> development of electronic commerce within the Single Market has been put
> forward by the European Commission.

That's pretty gutsy, put your goal in plain english in the first sentence.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
             Technology cannot make us other than what we are.

                                           James P. Hogan

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous x@z.wyx
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 18:14:56 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Remailer test, ignore
Message-ID: <199811280951.KAA20086@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



This string is to be used for tracing this message.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 02:07:18 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Securing data in memory (was "Locking physical memory (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811281744.LAA04641@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 17:41:53 +0100
> From: Anonymous 
> Subject: Re: Securing data in memory (was "Locking physical memory (fwd)

> What is Choate thinking when he says the ENTIRE OS is run under this?

My mistake. Since it really does only handle individual apps it's of limited
utility in the Windows world because of the numerous ways to get system
level access.

> This is a driver which is used by the application to allocate specific
> memory buffers in non-swappable memory.  It allows the app to lock down
> those buffers so that they won't swap to disk.  These buffers can then
> be used to hold sensitive data.

Considering that this doesn't prohibit apps from getting access to that
memory, it only prohibits that memory page from being written to disk, it
has limited utility. It's only real protection is against disk scans.

For example a bogus service could gain system level and initiate a DMA
transfer of that non-swappable ram into their own address space.

> It is neither possible nor desirable to run the ENTIRE OS out of
> such buffers.

Sure it is. It's the entire reason to have big online memory pools. Idealy
you'd have a computer with nothing but gig's and gig's of ram and no hard
drive at all.

> It is not possible because the OS is already written.
> It is Windows 3.x/95/98 (see above).  That OS does not make the special
> driver calls which would be necessary to allocate non-swappable memory.
> You would have to rewrite Windows to use the special calls, which isn't
> possible for a luser like Choate.

No, simply provide it enough ram it never has to swap out to disk except in
the case of updates to files. If ram's that cheap we could do away with the
drive completely.

> And it's not even desirable.  There is no reason to make the ENTIRE OS
> use non-swappable memory.

They why do I (and you unless youre using a tty) keep adding ram to my
Win/Linux/Solaris/AIX/HP/etc. boxes to reduce the swapping that is taking
place? It's slow, we put up with it because we can't afford those hundreds
of meg's of ram to hold our app and the entire database file (for example).

>  Most memory is simply not that sensitive.
> It holds public data, or data which is already on the disk in some form.
> Putting the ENTIRE OS into non-swappable memory gives up much of the
> advantage of having virtual memory in the first place.  It would be a
> giant step backwards in OS architecture.

No, it wouldn't. The question of swap or virtual space is one of economics
and not computer architecture. If it were economicaly feasible there would
be no drives just fast main ram.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
             Technology cannot make us other than what we are.

                                           James P. Hogan

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 02:50:43 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Securing data in memory (was "Locking physical memory (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811281827.MAA04760@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: Jim Choate 
> Subject: Re: Securing data in memory (was "Locking physical memory (fwd)
> Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 11:44:04 -0600 (CST)

> > Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 17:41:53 +0100
> > From: Anonymous 
> > Subject: Re: Securing data in memory (was "Locking physical memory (fwd)
> 
> > What is Choate thinking when he says the ENTIRE OS is run under this?
> 
> My mistake. Since it really does only handle individual apps it's of limited
> utility in the Windows world because of the numerous ways to get system
> level access.

I forgot to add that I'd still be interested in knowing if the utility would
support the entire OS being run under this and what the memory constraints
would be.

If I had 2 of the Samsung 4G memory modules w/ battery back-up I could run
an entire machine without a hard-drive.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
             Technology cannot make us other than what we are.

                                           James P. Hogan

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 08:35:54 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: german hacker death suspicious
Message-ID: <199811282258.OAA19939@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



there used to be a lot of conspiracy literature circulating on
the itnernet
on the huge industry/black market of satellite decoding software, TV
decoding software, and encryption systems.. I personally never figured
this out but if someone could point out that material, I'd love to
go back and look at it
here's a pretty heavy article TCM will love

------- Forwarded Message

Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 22:12:03 -0700
Subject: Murder or suicide? Hacker's death in October still a mystery

Murder or suicide? Hacker's death in October still a mystery

Copyright (c) 1998 Nando Media
Copyright (c) 1998 The Associated Press 

http://www.nando.net/newsroom/ntn/world/112798/world37_28777_noframes.html

BERLIN (November 27, 1998 3:15 p.m. EST http://www.nandotimes.com) -- He was a
gifted computer whiz -- one of the best, one who'd made the jump from illegal
tinkering to the legitimate, potentially lucrative business of making codes
crack-proof from hackers like himself.

But when Boris Floriciz was found hanging from a tree in a Berlin park on Oct.
22, his belt around his neck and his feet dragging the ground, it drew attention
even
outside the tight-knit world of hackers.

His friends wonder whether he was caught up in the murkier side of the trade --
one of spies, espionage and black-market criminals. Was it suicide, as police
suspect? Or homicide?

At 26, Floriciz seemed headed for a great future. He'd just finished his
computer science degree. International firms sought him as a consultant. He was
happy, say
his friends, who cannot believe he would take his own life.

Floriciz's friends wonder if he had become a threat to someone on the wrong side
of the business, leading to his death.

"That was not a personal decision," Andy Mueller-Maguhn, a friend and fellow
member of the Chaos Computer Club said. "For sure not. That was murder."

>From childhood, Floriciz looked destined to be an engineer. He was always taking
things apart to see how they worked. "Radios, television, clocks, the lawnmower
- - -- nothing was safe from him," his father told Stern magazine.

He dissembled a telephone booth to get at computer data inside. He was the first
hacker to crack the microchips on Deutsche Telekom telephone cards, used at
pay phones in Germany. His homemade card reloaded as the credit ran out.

After getting caught in 1995 and sentenced to probation, Floriciz "felt the need
to draw the line," said Mueller-Maguhn.

He joined Chaos, a 10-year-old group of computer devotees, and he went back to
college, earning his diploma in September by developing a scrambler to encode
telephone calls on high-speed, digital lines.

German media reports say Floriciz also was working on cracking decoders for pay
television -- a booming business spreading across Europe. One of the key
players is Robert Murdoch, whose digital broadcasting research firm NDS Ltd.
contacted Floriciz two years ago about being a code-design consultant.

"He was an exceptionally talented engineer," said Margot Field, spokeswoman at
the firm's London headquarters. NDS wanted to hire him, but couldn't move
forward because Floriciz hadn't yet graduated or completed his compulsory
military service. The firm's last contact with him was in June.

NDS apparently wasn't the only one interested in Floriciz.

His father says Floriciz talked several times about being approached by people
he suspected worked for spy agencies, which are believed to have mined the
hacker
world for talent in the past.

Just a few months ago, Germany's spy agency tried to hire a hacker to get
secrets out of Iran's military computers, the Chaos club said. But the contact
vanished
when the hacker got Chaos involved.

Floriciz may also have attracted black marketeers of counterfeit chips for
telephone cards and mobile phones. Deutsche Telekom estimates it loses millions
of
dollars each year from counterfeit cards. And industry officials worry that TV
decoder chips offer gangsters even bigger profits on the black market.

Money wasn't a lure for Floriciz, his friends say. He preferred to post his
research on the Internet for all to see -- and use.

"It was all the same to him if others raked in the bucks from what he
developed," one friend, Daniel, told Stern. "The main thing for him was that he
had proven what
he was great at."

Mueller-Maguhn says Floriciz's open attitude about his work might have
threatened those who didn't want competitors horning in on their business.

"He had lots of jobs, but he didn't want to become a slave of one company," he
said. "Maybe that was a problem."

Floriciz left his mother's apartment on Oct. 17 at about 2 p.m. She didn't think
he'd be gone long, because he didn't take his laptop computer.

He never came back. Calls to his mobile phone went unanswered.

A passerby found his body five days later. His phone, keys, ID card and money
were with him, evidence police say points to suicide. No sign of a struggle.
Nothing
stolen. No drugs.

Detectives are waiting for test results -- fingerprint fragments or chemical
traces -- before making a final determination.

The Chaos Computer Club is putting together its own report, which it plans to
release at its annual convention Dec. 27-29 in Berlin. Already, the death notice
on
the club's Web site states what Floriciz's friends believe happened:

"The circumstances under which he disappeared and his extraordinary capabilities
lead us to the conclusion that he became a homicide victim."

By PAUL GEITNER, Associated Press Writer 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 07:34:12 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: govt/business incest
Message-ID: <199811282300.PAA20157@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



on the incestuous relationship between govt and business...
heh doesn't mention the DEFENSE industry, #@&%^*
also for anyone interested, noam chomsky has many good
books out on these subjects


------- Forwarded Messagone

Subject: 
        [exploration] Corporate Welfare: A Media Issue At Last? (fwd)
   Date: 
        Sat, 28 Nov 1998 08:24:26 -1000
   From: 
        Jonathan David Boyne 
     To: 
        Undisclosed recipients:;



By Norman Solomon  /  Creators Syndicate


     For many years, across the United States, huge quantities of
>tax breaks and subsidies have been going to corporations.
>Occasionally, the media spotlight falls on an example of how
>government policies stand Robin Hood on his head -- shaking down
>the poor and middle class while handing over the proceeds to
>wealthy individuals and big businesses.
>
>     Sometimes called "corporate welfare," this pattern of
>legalized rip-offs has been widespread -- yet little of the story
>seems to emerge in major news outlets. Overall, the coverage is
>sporadic at best. In mass media, the broader picture has been
>missing -- until the last few weeks.
>
>     November brought a series of breakthroughs, thanks to two
>gifted reporters and a news weekly that allowed them to engage in
>rigorous journalism. All month, beginning with a cover story on
>"What Corporate Welfare Costs You," Time magazine featured
>extraordinary exposes by Donald Barlett and James Steele.
>
>     Corporate welfare, they write, is "a game in which
>governments large and small subsidize corporations large and
>small, usually at the expense of another state or town and almost
>always at the expense of individuals and other corporate
>taxpayers."
>
>     Barlett and Steele report that "the federal government alone
>shells out $125 billion a year in corporate welfare." Meanwhile,
>"a different kind of feeding frenzy is taking place" at the state
>and local level -- where "politicians stumble over one another in
>the rush to arrange special deals for select corporations."
>
>     In theory, the giveaways create jobs. In practice, the
>theory is hogwash: "Time's investigation has established that
>almost without exception, local and state politicians have doled
>out tens of billions of taxpayer dollars to businesses that are
>in fact eliminating rather than creating jobs."
>
>     Often, when localities roll out the gold carpet for firms,
>government coffers shrink -- and services for the public
>diminish. As Barlett and Steele document in excruciating detail,
>one of the common results is health-threatening pollution that
>goes unchallenged. The most vulnerable neighborhoods tend to be
>where low-income people live.
>
>     The big hogs at the tax-funded trough include popular brands
>-- Intel and Dow, General Motors and Mercedes-Benz, Exxon and
>Shell, UPS and Procter & Gamble, to name just a few. Some are the
>parent companies of media empires, such as Walt Disney (ABC),
>General Electric (NBC) and -- as the Time series acknowledges --
>Time Warner.
>
>     "The king of corporate welfare may be Archer Daniels
>Midland," according to Time. "The global agricultural-commodities
>dealer has artfully preserved one of the more blatant welfare
>programs -- a subsidy for ethanol that has already cost taxpayers
>more than $5 billion in the 1990s. Some $3 billion of that has
>gone to ADM."
>
>     Year after year, Archer Daniels Midland has poured several
>million dollars into the nightly PBS "NewsHour" television show
>hosted by Jim Lehrer. ADM is also an underwriter of National
>Public Radio news. And the savvy firm buys a lot of image ads on
>commercial TV network programs that discuss political issues. Not
>surprisingly, ADM hasn't been subjected to much tough reporting
>on the national airwaves.
>
>     Corporate welfare is an important issue. But it can easily
>be spun in dubious directions. For instance, in an article
>addressed "To Our Readers," Time's editor-in-chief Norman
>Pearlstine throws a wide curve that breaks sharply downward and
>to the right.
>
>     "Ending corporate welfare as we know it is essential,"
>Pearlstine contends. But then comes the english: "Rather than
>give corporations uneven and unfair exemptions, it may make more
>sense to simply do away with both corporate welfare and corporate
>taxation."
>
>     Now there's an idea that Time Warner can get behind: Stop
>taxing corporations!
>
>     Another hazard is the temptation to put all forms of
>government assistance in the same "welfare" category. It would be
>a big mistake to equate government aid to dependent corporations
>with safety-net subsidies for children, seniors and others
>struggling at the bottom rungs of the economic ladder.
>
>     Government should not be using tax dollars to help the rich
>get richer. But government has no business refusing to help
>Americans get the nutrition, health care, housing and other
>basics that are everyone's human right.
>
>     Welcome as it is, the occasional blockbuster expose of
>corporate abuses -- even in a media outlet as influential as Time
>magazine -- won't accomplish very much. Without an "echo effect,"
>these issues are likely to remain muted.
>
>     The need to speak up and take action is a burden that falls
>on people in every community. Large corporations have been
>ripping us off for decades. Our initial efforts to force
>restitution will not be televised.
>
>
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
>DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
>==========
>CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting
propagandic
>screeds are not allowed. Substance-not soapboxing!  These are sordid
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>and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and
outright
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>spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: pgut001@cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann)
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 12:09:52 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: open-pgp / s/mime interoperability
Message-ID: <91222019014234@cs26.cs.auckland.ac.nz>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





>: there is no reason why you can't have PGP
>: messages backed by X.509 certificates, and it is trivial to use S/MIME
>: with OpenPGP certificates.  I'm planning on writing a short
>: informational RFC on how to do it once we all get RFC numbers for our
>: respective systems.

>open-pgp public keys aren't based on X.509 keys, so I would've thought
>s/mime implementation would barf on them.  

Actually S/MIME *could* support the use of PGP keys, but there's a field
(the SubjectKeyIdentifier) missing from the CMS SignerInfo which prevents
this.  This is rather inconsistent, because the same field is present in
the RecipientInfo.  I'm currently arguing in favour of adding it to 
SignerInfo on the basis that any argument against it would also apply to
RecipientInfo.  Not sure whether it'll work though - a couple of list
members seem convinced that exactly the same thing which is currently in
RecipientInfo won't work if used in SignerInfo.

Peter.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 00:57:58 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: native onani
Message-ID: <199811281632.RAA12035@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




At 07:24 AM 11/27/98 -0500, Robert Hettinga wrote:
> Obviously
>neither homosexual nor homophobic, both groups
>prefer the chaste option of onani (onanism) to the perceived compromises of
>marital consummation.


Worse than that, they use a geijing word for masturbation...



--If the spice girls mud-wrestled shonen knife, who would win?










  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 01:12:07 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Securing data in memory (was "Locking physical memory (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811281641.RAA12739@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate misses the point, as usual:

> Wrong, since the ENTIRE OS is run under this it's not nearly that simple.
> The OS's internal swap page as well as by extension the contexts they point
> to are going to be sitting in there. The app should also encrypt the address
> spaces of the system structures.

The original message said:

> From: "Jim Adler" 
> The SCNSM driver supports allocation of non-swappable memory on Windows
> 3.x/95/98. The principal design goal of SCNSM is to provide memory that will
> not be swapped to disk, under any circumstances. Typically, security
> applications require such memory to store private keys, passwords, and
> sensitive intermediate results of cryptographic calculations.

What is Choate thinking when he says the ENTIRE OS is run under this?
This is a driver which is used by the application to allocate specific
memory buffers in non-swappable memory.  It allows the app to lock down
those buffers so that they won't swap to disk.  These buffers can then
be used to hold sensitive data.

It is neither possible nor desirable to run the ENTIRE OS out of
such buffers.  It is not possible because the OS is already written.
It is Windows 3.x/95/98 (see above).  That OS does not make the special
driver calls which would be necessary to allocate non-swappable memory.
You would have to rewrite Windows to use the special calls, which isn't
possible for a luser like Choate.

And it's not even desirable.  There is no reason to make the ENTIRE OS
use non-swappable memory.  Most memory is simply not that sensitive.
It holds public data, or data which is already on the disk in some form.
Putting the ENTIRE OS into non-swappable memory gives up much of the
advantage of having virtual memory in the first place.  It would be a
giant step backwards in OS architecture.

Here's what Choate had to say when Bill Stewart tried to politely help
him out:

> You don't know this but you're willing to try to rake me....
> Talk about unprepared.
> Your guess is pretty much worthless.

It's bad enough to have to endure more of Choate's idiocy, but it is
especially offensive to see him hassling Bill Stewart, one of the most
consistently informative and valuable list members.  Bill's a thick-
skinned guy and it's probably no big deal to him, but it further
illustrates what a negative contribution Choate makes here.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 11:28:51 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: y2k/gary north delusions
Message-ID: <199811290304.TAA06582@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I've been reading gary north for quite awhile and think
he is quite brilliant on some issues. for example he was
quoting statistics about amt of time it takes to fix code,
cost per line, govt agencies etc. a long, long time ago.
he really zeroed in on the govt bureacrat "ostrichism"
early on.. 

anyway I hate to say that I think he is really losing his
mind lately.. no there are going to be some serious y2k problems,
but imho the bottom approaches "garbage".. any talk of riots,
mobs, martial law, stockpiling weaponry, roving bandits
etc. seems to me to be really way off base to say the least.
now people have been talking about this, but I've never seen
gary north go quite that crazy.

all the quoting of obscure, fictitious b-grade movies in this article
makes me think he is really living in a fantasy world. now
this is a shame because some of his research is some of the
most solid and ahead-of-time than anyone on the entire net,
by far. his site is a work of art in tedious archival,
compilation, indexing.

gary, take it easy. take a vacation. take a deep breath.

well posted for your own opinion

------- Forwarded Message


Gary North's REALITY CHECK
Issue #33
November 17, 1998


       CLOCKS TICK, BUT MOST PEOPLE IGNORE THE SOUND


     Tonight we will go through the Leonid meteor shower. 
Scientists tell us that this one will not match the 1966
shower, nor will it match the one a year and a day from
now.  But we will probably lose a few major satellites. 
Any company that has insured satellites has just entered a
higher-risk period.

     Astronomy is a precise science.  It can predict events
such as this one with remarkable accuracy.  The astronomers
do not know how intense this shower will be, but they know
for certain that tonight will be the highest density night. 
Some think it will be a bump in the highway, but others
think it could be worse for our satellites.  This reminds
me of y2k forecasts.

     I shall go out tonight to see the shooting stars.  I
was on top of a hill in a desert area in 1966, lying on the
trunk of a car, looking up.  I did not know about the
Leonids.  I just happened to be in the right place to see
them.  The shooting stars came every few minutes.  Never in
history had there been so many -- and records of the
Leonids go back to the tenth century.  I'll never forget
it.  I'll never forget y2k, either.


                   IGNORING THE OBVIOUS

     There are millions of people who know that y2k is
coming.  They will put this out of their minds until the
last minute.  They will pay no attention until events force
themselves on men's perception.  Then they will say, "Why
didn't anyone tell me?"  There are several answers: (1) the
watchmen did not believe the evidence; (2) risks to the
reputations of watchmen are high and rewards are few; (3)
almost no one would have listened anyway.

     Let me give another example.  I have mentioned in
"Remnant Review," but not on my Web site, since it is not a
y2k issue.  But it is surely an ignored deadline issue. 
Brady II goes into effect in just a few days: December 1. 
>From that day forward, U.S. residents will not be able to
buy a shotgun or a rifle without registering and paying a
fee.  Their names will be placed in an FBI computer, even
though this is illegal and the authorities know it's
illegal.  Where is the ACLU?  If this law applied only to
Blacks, the ACLU would be fighting it.  But since it
applies to everyone, we hear nothing.  

     There is a scene in "The Trigger Effect" where the two
male characters go into a gun store a few days after the
power has been off.  So do a lot of others.  They are told
that they cannot buy handguns.  There is a waiting period. 
But they can buy rifles and shotguns.  They buy a shotgun
with what little cash they can scrape together.

     As of December 1, this scene will be inaccurate. 
There will be an extra fee and the loss of privacy.

     The next step: a prohibition on private gun sales.  To
sell your gun to your next door neighbor, you will have to
take your gun to a gun dealer, who will register the
transaction and impose the 5-day waiting period.  The
President has said that it is his goal to shut down gun
shows.  I think he will be successful.

     Now, I'm not too worried about being in any computer. 
They will all be dead on 1/1/2000.  But what is obvious is
that those who dilly-dally now will find themselves
competing with people who have cash in 2000.  The collapse
of the banks over the next 16 months will transfer wealth
to the drug dealers on a massive scale.  They will have
cash, and they will be dealing in consumer goods that will
function as money.  Drugs are divisible, recognizable to
users, have a very high value-to-volume ratio, and are
durable.

     There is no doubt in my mind that in those
geographical areas where addiction is high, the drug lords
will take over the functions of government.  They will be
armed.  They will have money.  They are ruthless.  And the
police will be absent.  The inner cities of the United
States will become warlord societies within two years.

     Do not live anywhere near one of these areas.  The
criminals and addicts will fan out to extract wealth from
contiguous areas.  The police will be hard-pressed to
respond.  It will take time for martial law to be imposed,
and in most places, there will not be any military
presence.  Neighborhood defense will be based increasingly
on what local residents can muster.  If the locals are
disarmed, then they will be sitting ducks.  

     Neighborhoods will set up roadblocks with cars.  The
two-car family will become a one-car family.  The number-
one defensive measure a neighborhood can take is a
roadblock.  Criminals will have to get into a neighborhood
on foot.  They will have to get out the same way.

     Easy transportation will disappear in 2000.  Urban
life will move to a crawl.  On that day, you had better
have your water, your food, your non-hybrid seeds, and your
ammunition.

     Nobody else talks like this.  The watchmen are in the
"peace, peace" mode.  That's easy talk in the days before
the shooting starts.  The function of the watchman in the
Old Testament was military.  He warned of an invading army. 
That's what I'm doing.  The army has already invaded the
central cities.  It is well armed, well organized, and
ruthless.  It will move outward in 2000.

     Rent "The Friendly Persuasion."  It's a great movie. 
Pay close attention to the pacifism of the Quaker men in
the weeks before the Confederates invaded and the
militarism on the day before.  Talk of peace is cheap
before the shooting starts.

     What I am saying is obvious, but it is not politically
correct.  Today's watchmen are afraid of politically
liberal media reporters who might say, "These people
recommend buying guns!  Oh, woe!  Oh, horrors!"  I pay no
attention.  When I think of any reporter, I think: "Dead
man typing."  He will have no job, no career, no pension,
and no readers in 15 months.  He will be at the mercy of
those around him.  

     The mentality of the typical reporter is that of the
wife on "the Trigger Effect."  A liberal to the core, she
wanted no part of a shotgun.  The movie centers around her
ideology and the costs that it imposed.  It was not a good
movie, but it surely did portray her in a bad light, which
was well deserved.

     The clock is ticking.  Brady II is coming.  And
millions of people will walk into a Wal-Mart SuperCenter
next month and through all of next year and wonder: "Why
didn't someone tell me I would have to register this
transaction?"  (See the three reasons, above.)


                     ACROSS THE BOARD

     The shock of recognition that rifle-buyers will have
in the next few months will be paralleled in 1999 on an
international scale.  "What do you mean, I can't get cash
out of this bank?"  "What do you mean, you're out of solar
panels?"  (http://www.solarextreme.com)  "What do you mean,
I can't buy an inverter?"  "What do you mean, I can't get
delivery of a diesel generator?"  "What do you mean, you
don't have any deep cycle golf cart batteries?"  "What do
you mean I can't get delivery of a wood burning stove?"

     In 2000, it will be food, water, and electricity.  But
there will be no seller to complain to.  To complain, you
have to be able to speak to someone.  You won't be able to.

     Let's start with the basics: water.  An urban adult
uses 75 to 100 gallons of water a day.  This doesn't count
watering the lawn.  In 2000, how many people will be under
your roof?  Remember, your children may show up on your
doorstep, with wives and children.  Families will pull
together for survival in 2000.  Estimate the number of
people under your roof in 2000.  Now, how much water will
you need per day?

     What if the municipal water authority shuts down? 
It's goodbye showers.  Goodbye flushing toilets.  Hello sponge
baths and thunder mugs.  I don't think the reality of the
power cut-off will hit most families until someone says,
"Mom, the toilet won't flush."  Then the realization will
dawn at last.  A new, unpleasant world has arrived.

     Disease will begin to spread by the end of the week.

     Every time you take a shower, think of 2000.  Every
time you flush a toilet, think of 2000.  Ask yourself: How
will I do this in 2000?

     People will not do this.  No, not even those who have
read my warnings for two years.  They will not go through
the mental exercise of planning ahead for the basics -- and
water is near the top of any list of basics, right below
heat in the winter.

     There are millions of people who live in high-rise
apartments today.  There will be fewer in February, 2000.

     Let's assume that for the first three months in 2000,
you will not get paid.  The banks will be down.  You will
not be able to write a check or use a credit card.  What
will you do?

     What will your neighbors do?

     What if it's a year?

     If it's a year, it could be a decade.

     What will you do?  What is your exit strategy?

     Have you and your spouse sat down with pencil and
paper and written down your family's exit strategy?  No? 
Why not?  It's not that I haven't nagged you.

     What of your adult children?  Which ones will be able
to make it through three months of no paychecks?  Of those
that can't, how many will wind up on your doorstep in late
1999?  Or will you wind up on theirs?

     Should you head for the hills?  Wrong question.  What
solid evidence do you have that you shouldn't?

     Should you stay where you are?  What items will you
need in your possession in 2000 and 2001 to make your
decision to stay put a wise one for you and all of your
closest relatives, who will show up on your doorstep if
they know that you have prepared?  That is to say, have you
prepared for every close family member who will be in
trouble in 2000?  No?  Why not?

     The clock is ticking.

     Let me give a simple example.  How will you wash
clothes for everyone?  Let's assume that you have water. 
(Dreamer!)  You can buy a 40-lb. tub of Wind Fresh laundry
detergent from Sam's Club for $10.  It will do 160 loads. 
For one person, that's a year of washing.  What if you have
10 people under your roof?  You will need 10 tubs for just
one year.  But this product may not be readily available in
2001.  You had better buy 20 tubs.  I'll bet you don't have
20 tubs, even though you can afford $200.  You lack the
storage space.  More important, 20 tubs of detergent point
to all the other things you will need under conditions that
would mandate 20 tubs of detergent.  So, people refuse to
buy enough detergent.

     Now, what about your neighbors?  They will be dirty. 
Their clothes will be dirty.  You will be clean.  You will
not have lost 30 pounds.  You will be the target of envy on
a scale you can barely imagine today.  You will be
despised.  Will you be ready for this psychologically?

     Of course, you can warn your neighbors now.  They will
not prepare, but they will remember.

     There will be a stream of beggars at your door from
2000 onward.  You may know their names.  "Please, please,
we're desperate."  It won't be a lie.

     When a society loses the division of labor, it loses
just about everything that the urban "good life" requires. 
If you keep even a fraction of these things -- clean
clothes, for instance -- you will be resented.  Envy is a
powerful force.  "He doesn't deserve it.  It's not right
that he should have so much.  No one should have so much."

     Here is a piece of information you may not have. 
Sam's Club offers a special service.  It has a 50-page
notebook with all of its products listed, with order
numbers.  Go to the manager and ask for a copy.  Take it
home.  Make a shopping list.  You can order everything at
one time.  Rent a U-Haul or borrow a pick-up truck and pick
up everything.

     The average adult consumes 1000 lbs of food for a year. 
Half should be vegetables.  You can grow them.  Buy
non-hybrid seeds.  (http://arkinstitute.com)  Half 
can be grains.  You can buy 200 lbs of white rice at Sam's
Club for under $60.  The same for pinto beans.

     In terms of food, $300 will feed you for a year. 
You'll hate the taste by mid-2000, but you'll eat.  How
many of you will spend a whole $300 on food?  Not many. 
Why not?  Because if they might need this much food,
they'll need water, and they know they can't get enough
water in 2000.  They would have to move, or put in four
1,500-gallon cisterns and gutters, or buy a swimming pool. 
They won't do it.

     My suggestion: rent "The Trigger Effect."  Then make
up your mind about where you should live in 2000.

     For those who want a public presentation, which can be
used to persuade people who have not read much about y2k,
my Harrison, Arkansas y2k town meeting tape is effective. 
You can see representatives of the public utilities and a
local bank deal with y2k.  The question and answer session
is especially useful.  It sells for $39.95: 
call 903-839-8822.

- - --------------------------------------------
Reality Check
- - --------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe from this list, send a message containing 
"unsubscribe" to: remnant-list-request@cliffslanding.com

If you have questions please contact ice@ballistic.com.


- - --------------60B23B773DFEE8A7DA22A23D--


- - --------------12214D0997E9CA46C4BB380C--


- ------- End of Forwarded Message


------- End of Forwarded Message




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 04:12:44 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Pi(x) - How many primes below x?
Message-ID: <199811281943.UAA27500@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Here are a couple of overdue Choate blooper corrections.

Regarding the Prime Number Theorem, Choate originally wrote:

> I had typed x/ln(x) as the asymptotic limit for the number of primes less
> than x.
> 
> This is incorrect. It should be,
> 
> x/log(x)

It should be noted that ln(x) is the logarithm to the base e of x.
log(x) is somewhat ambiguous as to the base, but when it is contrasted
with ln(x) as Choate does here, it implies that the base is 10.  In
fact the correct formula uses the base e, and x/ln(x) is not "incorrect"
as Choate is claiming.

When Choate's error was pointed out, he responded by quoting
http://www.utm.edu/research/primes/howmany.shtml, which says that the
formula is x/log x.  What Choate failed to notice is that the web page
clearly states that its logs are to the base e.  In other words, the
"log x" on that page is equivalent to the "ln(x)" which Choate originally
wrote.  Choate's original formula was the right one, and in writing that
his formula was incorrect, he only displays his own confusion.


With regard to his ludicrous model of a spark gap inside a conductive
sphere, Choate originally wrote:

> The spark gap generates sparks and that builds up free electrons in the
> space inside the sphere (whether it is gas filled or a vacuum is
> irrelevant). As that charge builds up it will be all of one type, electrons.
> Now the electrons repel each other and therefor move in a circular motion
> with the spark gap as the center. They strike the surface of the sphere and
> tunnel through to the outside surface where they reside. The amount of
> charge at any one point is related to the curvature of the surface at that
> point. Since a sphere is constant curvature the charge will be evenly
> distributed. It will continue to build up so long as you supply power to the
> spark gap. In an ideal world it will get bigger and bigger. In the real
> world at some point insulation breaks down and normal current flow takes
> place.

He believes that the spark gap emits electrons, which strike the inside
surface of the sphere and "tunnel through" to the outside.  He says that
the charge will continue to build up so long as you supply power to the
spark gap.

Here is another message in which he made the same point:

> This is in addition to the charge that steadily builds up in the shell as
> the electrons accrete over time. This can be modelled with an integral of
> the flow rate of the current in the battery (it after all is Coulombs/s).
> It's not too hard (k * I). (I'm not going to go into what happens as the
> charge on the shell builds up as we're discussing here the applicability of
> wave equations as a reliable model).
> 
> So what do you get? A hell of a charge that will go bang at some point when
> some insulation give way.

When it was pointed out how ignorant this idea was, and how it violates
Gauss's Law, Choate tried to backpedal by proposing that the battery
itself was charged in the first place.  He even drew a picture:

>                2N e-          1N p+
>
>                     |       |
>                     |       |
>       |-------------|       |--------------|
>       |             |       |              |
>       |             |       |              |
>       |                                    |
>       |                                    |
>       |------0 0------------------0     0--|
>                                    \
>                                      \
>           spark gap               switch

It should be obvious that this device fails to generate the phenomena which
he describes above.  In the first place, since it has a net negative
charge, the charge will appear on the outside of the sphere BEFORE THE
SWITCH IS THROWN.  There is no spark active, no electrons being emitted,
yet a negative charge appears on the outside of the conductive sphere.
This is an elementary application of Gauss's Law.

Then, when the switch is thrown, there will be a spark, and some of
the charges will neutralize each other, but of course the net charge
will stay the same, by conservation of charge.  The phenomenon Choate
described of electrons being emitted by the spark gap, moving outward
and striking the sphere, and then tunnelling through to make charge
appear on the outside, will occur only in Choate's deluded imagination.

Furthermore, there will be no "build up" of charge.  The charge will be
there from the moment the device is put into the sphere, long before
the switch is thrown.  Throwing the switch will have NO EFFECT WHATSOEVER
on the outside of the sphere.

Michael Motyka spent several days trying to patiently explain all this
to Choate, to no avail.  He finally gave up in frustration.  Choate is
almost completely immune to enlightenment.  He has certainly proved that
patience and politeness make no dent in his thick skull.  We shall see
whether blunt frankness is any more effective.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 13:00:56 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Securing data in memory (was "Locking physical memory (fwd)
Message-ID: <199811290431.WAA05894@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 23:26:46 +0000
> From: "Frank O'Dwyer" 
> Subject: Re: Securing data in memory (was "Locking physical memory (fwd)

> Jim Choate wrote: 
> > If I had 2 of the Samsung 4G memory modules w/ battery back-up I could run
> > an entire machine without a hard-drive.
> 
> If you had no hard drive why the hell would you worry about disk
> swapping?

I wouldn't because I'd have enough RAM to cover the requisite resources of
my OS and apps.

You have the cart before the horse.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
             Technology cannot make us other than what we are.

                                           James P. Hogan

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Frank O'Dwyer" 
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 07:51:16 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: Securing data in memory (was "Locking physical memory (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199811281827.MAA04760@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <366086B6.2E880D74@brd.ie>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate wrote: 
> If I had 2 of the Samsung 4G memory modules w/ battery back-up I could run
> an entire machine without a hard-drive.

If you had no hard drive why the hell would you worry about disk
swapping?

Cheers,
Frank O'Dwyer.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Reeza! 
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 06:40:52 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: native onani
In-Reply-To: <199811281632.RAA12035@replay.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981129071146.00881b40@205.83.192.13>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 05:32 PM 11/28/98 +0100, Anonymous wrote:
>
>At 07:24 AM 11/27/98 -0500, Robert Hettinga wrote:
>> Obviously
>>neither homosexual nor homophobic, both groups
>>prefer the chaste option of onani (onanism) to the perceived compromises of
>>marital consummation.
>
>
>Worse than that, they use a geijing word for masturbation...
>
>
>--If the spice girls mud-wrestled shonen knife, who would win?
>

Vince McMahon.





Reeza!

	If you see a man approaching you with the obvious intention 
	of doing you good, you should run for your life.

				-stolen from a cypherpunk sig




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 09:04:21 +0800
To: "Brown, R Ken" 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981128000814.008f6cb0@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 04:40 AM 11/27/98 -0600, Brown, R Ken wrote:
>We're still getting clueless people forwarding us email virus hoaxes.
>Pen-Pal, Buddy Frogs, Good Times, whatever.
>
>And I just realised who has to be responsible!  Who has a motive for this
>"crime"?  These things do no-one any real harm, they just take up
>bandwidth.  Networks get saturated and maybe we have to buy more kit. It
>must be the router manufacturers. Maybe there is a secret team at Cisco or
>IBM generating new  hoaxes  to keep the email market growing.

A long time ago, in a network far far away, when there were wolves in Wales
and Netnews still mostly ran over UUCP instead of that newfangled Arpanet, 
and the Center of the Earth was either allegra or ihnp4, there were
some people who accused Bell Labs and probably in particular Mark Horton
of spreading Netnews as part of a plot by The Phone Company to increase
telephone usage, since more netnews volume meant more long-distance minutes.

(Everybody tried to avoid knowing what the phone bills for
allegra and ihnp4 _were_, because even internal funny-money creates
some responsibility if you know you're spending more than $1M/year of it :-)
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "" 
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 06:24:28 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Passport Guatemala/Nicaragua now even faster/2-3 weeks!
Message-ID: <199811292130.NAA01216@privacy-consultants.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Hello fellow Privacy Seeker,

Sorry, it took a little longer to respond, as I just came back from my trip to Central America. I made the first deliveries, and both programs run very well. As we are getting into the christmas season things are getting somewhat busy. Please read below all additional expalanations and act accordingly. 

Some general guidelines, organized like a FAQ:

1. What is included?
Gua: passport with entry-exit stamp of another Central American country, driver's license and cedula
Nica: passport with exit stamp, driver's license and cedula

2. What is extra?
Gua: name change 3000, naturalization papers 1500
Nica: name change 2000, naturalization papers 1000

3. Special features:
Holders are entitled to naturalization in Spain after only two years' residency. This is valid for both countries.

4. Discounts available?

As this is already a real bargain and is addressed to agents only, I will grant a 15% on orders of 2 or more GIVEN AT THE SAME TIME.

5. What is needed?

Gua: 
 Possible by mail:		YES
 Validity of pp:              VALID FOR LIFE
 Prolongation:                EVERY 5 YEARS (AT ANY Guatemala EMBASSY OR CONSULATE)
 Docs legalized,notarized & registered: YES - IN ALL THE RIGHT COMPUTERS, REGISTRATION, LEGAL STAMPS, ETC.
 Dual nationality permitted:  YES
 Residency possible:          YES
 Extradition legally possible:DEPENDS ON YOUR FIRST NATIONALITY. EXTRADITON IS BETWEEN GOVT. TO GOVT. AGREEMENTS
 New identity/name change possible:YES (additional USD 5,000)
 Birth Certificate included:  NO, AS THIS IS BY NATURALIZATION
 Double taxation agreements:  DEPENDS AGAIN ON GOVT.-TO-GOVT. AGREEMENTS
 Travel opportunities:        EXCELLENT - AS GOOD AS ANY SWISS OR CANADIAN PASSPORT!
 List of visa requirements:   SEE BELOW
 Fee:                         US$ 10,000
 Time frame:                  appr. 2-3 weeks after receipt of application & funds

            Fee for spouse: SAME AS FOR HUSBAND 
 Fee for children under 18: DEPENDS 
  Fee for children over 18: SAME AS FOR ADULT 
        Photo requirements: 6 PHOTOS IN COLOR, showing the ears, no earrings or glasses
				    4 Photos in color for Cedula and Driver's License	

If you opt for name change, I do not need a copy of your current passport!

Nica:

same as above, except the following changes:

travel opportunities: 		more limited, still working on a comprehensive visa list, difficult to get! Best advise is to check with your local airline, and ask them how visa requirements are for Nicaraguaians to travel to your favorite countries

Fee: USD 7,500

Photo requirements: same

If you opt for name change, I do not need a copy of your current passport!

6. Terms:

Payment shall be 50 % deposit and the balance on delivery in 2-3 weeks. This includes delivery by courier worldwide, if personal delivery is requested, the client must bear with the additional costs. If interested, please inquire for the wire instructions, payments by wire transfer only.

7. Misc:

THESE ARE NOT CHEAP FAKES!! This deal is possible based on long lasting personal relationships and donations to political groups. There is no intermediary in between, I do it myself!!

8. How to order:

Please respond to privacy@privacy-consultants.com, I will give you:
- the application form
- the wire instruction
- the address where to mail the photos

Please bear in mind that this offer expires on Dec 31, 98. After that date prices will go up, some 60%!!

Don't loose any more time now and reply asking me for the application form.

Cordially

Dr. Georg Adem


************************************************************************

"One person with a belief is equal to a force of ninety nine
		   who only have interest."


"In the land of the blind the one-eyed is king, until the other 
           find out he can see. Then they kill him"


Our home page: http://privacy-consultants.com/
or full mirror at: http://nauru-banker-net.com/

email to: assistant@privacy-consultants.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Our affiliated site: http://www.1-trust.net/ or: http://onetrust.net/
providing top-notch offshore services, credit cards, etc.

email to: quest@1-trust.net


                    WE SELL PRACTICE, NOT THE THEORY!
*************** Providing Privacy Consultancy Since 1978 ****************

We strongly encourage encryption!! Here you get our public key:
      
        http://privacy-consultants.com/pgpkey_home.html



P.S.: Last, but not least: Don't get fooled by cheap imitators, I saw what they deliver, and it is just not worth the paper it was printed on, at some back yard printer shop in Guatemala City! Stay with the person whom you can trust if it comes to passports, I know the ropes of this business better than anybody else! 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous x@z.wyx
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 02:43:15 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: "Export" controls
Message-ID: <199811291808.TAA01251@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



A few speculations on export controls.

As we all know, the concentration of so-called hard crypto is the same
inside and outside US borders. Or, for that matter, inside and outside
"free world" (heh heh) borders. I would even say that anyone with a
computer and net link in the world has about equal access to the crypto
software. And no one I know ever bothers do download anything from
US-based sites with those somnambulistic export-control buttons - it is
so much simpler do download it from somewhere else.

If we put aside the theory of deranged government, what logic can
explain this situation ?

Effective domestic crypto regulation.

Export farce is just a neat way of scaring companies and individual
contributors from developing and providing cryptographic systems within
US. Export regulations are the new high point of double-speak. Anyone
providing domestic crypto runs the risk of violating EARs.
Manufacturers are ultimately responsible when their products end up
overseas, and there is nothing in EARs that absolves them from that
responsibility.

[ For example, try to buy one of IBM crypto-cards - give them a call
and ask what does it take to purchase one with hard crypto on it
(semi-hard - they stop at 3DES) ]

Regular sales channels are closed for crypto today in US. No one dares
sell crypto hardware to anonymous public. No one dares to post crypto
software for US customers to download with a single-click. Small
developers (like that guy from Sunnyvale) are harassed with subpoenas.

The end result is a tremendous slow down of crypto systems distribution
in the US. Which was the intent.

Now the question: is there a way to build a case which will bring down
crypto export controls because they demonstrably prevent DOMESTIC sales
and therefore constitute DOMESTIC restrictions. Say, if company
starts selling some hard crypto products in a storefront for cash only
- how would BIX react ? Would a US citizen have to produce ID in order
to buy ?





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: registration@evguide.intervu.net (eyeQ Registration)
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 12:57:19 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Joe Cypher)
Subject: eyeQ Signup (SID=2e4628740b7a7d730a7f6d783e3a10)
Message-ID: <199811300424.UAA11343@evguide.intervu.net.>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



To complete the registration process, please reply to this e-mail.
Make sure that "SID=2e4628740b7a7d730a7f6d783e3a10" appears somewhere
in the subject line.

Thank you for using eyeQ!

eyeQ




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Gilmore 
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 13:55:23 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Internet Society: 1999 Board of Trustees Call for Nominations
Message-ID: <199811300505.VAA00944@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I'm currently serving a 3-year term on the Board of Trustees of the
Internet Society, and have volunteered for the nominations committee.
The board is elected by the membership; every year five or six
Trustees are elected to three-year staggered terms.  I would like to
see talented people who care about the future of society serve on the
board.  I know there are many such among the cypherpunks.  If you are
willing to serve on the Board, please nominate yourself, or if you
know someone who's willing to serve and who you think would be good,
please nominate them.  Send such nominations to isoc-noms@isoc.org.
The message below gives all the details.

Not everyone nominated will be on the ballot; the nominations
committee will winnow it to a list of ten or fifteen people.  And
among those people, only the top five vote-getters will be elected by
the membership.

Anyone who the nominations committee doesn't pick for the ballot, can
get on it anyway, if they submit a petition from 65 Internet Society
members to put their name on the ballot.  That's how I got on the
ballot when I was elected a few years ago.  (IETF is a great place to
run around and get people to sign your petition.)

Being a Trustee makes you responsible for the acts of the Internet
Society.  And you get to help decide what those acts will be.  It's an
unpaid, volunteer job.  You get to fly (at your own expense) to the
board meetings a few times a year.  ISOC has done many good things,
like training people in a hundred countries how to set up the first
Internet node there.  Like publicly stating (in RFC 1984) that it will
ignore US export controls when designing worldwide Internet crypto
protocols.  Like working hard to resolve the mess around domain-name
and IP-address administration, and the mess around the "Internet"
trademark.  ISOC also provides the organizational structure for the
IETF and the Internet Architecture Board.  ISOC will probably do many
more good things -- particularly if it has good people as Trustees!

Whether or not you want to be a Trustee, I encourage you to join the
Internet Society as a member -- see http://www.isoc.org/isoc/membership/

	John Gilmore

Message-ID:  <3.0.5.32.19981118080715.00927100@pop.isoc.org>
Date:         Wed, 18 Nov 1998 08:07:15 -0500
From: Internet Society 
Subject:      1999 Board of Trustees Call for Nominations

1999 Internet Society Board of Trustees Elections

Call for Nominations

On 26 February 1999, ballots will be posted for the election of new Internet
Society Trustees. Election Day is scheduled for 3 May 1999, when received
ballots will be opened and tallied. Internet Society members will be asked
to elect FIVE Trustees who will serve  three year terms. The role of a
Trustee is detailed in the Internet Society By-Laws (not included in this
notice but available on the Internet Society web server):

        http://www.isoc.org/trustees/


This notice is a call from the ISOC Nominations Committee for nominations
of candidates for election.

Nominations are to be forwarded to this committee via:

 -  electronic mail to: isoc-noms@isoc.org
 or
 -  fax to  +1 703 648 9887
 or
 -  postal mail to:

Internet Society
12020 Sunrise Valley Drive, Suite 210
Reston, VA 20191-3429
U.S.A.

Attention: 1999 Nominations Committee

Nominations are to reach the committee no later than 17 December 1998 in
order to ensure due consideration of the nomination by the committee.
Nominations (in the form of agreed nominations, suggestions or volunteers)
are to include the name of the nominated individual, contact details and a
brief explanation of the basis of the nomination.

The  committee will confirm with the candidates their willingness to stand
for election as a nominated candidate if so selected. Nominees will also be
requested to provide the committee with further personal details (in the
format of a curriculum vita) as they relate to the selection guidelines
that are to be applied by the committee, and provide to the committee a
statement indicating their willingness and ability to devote an appropriate
level of time to activities associated with the position of Trustee of the
Internet Society.

It is intended that the committee's selection process will result in 10
candidates for election as nominated candidates.  This list will  be passed
to the Elections Committee on 19 December 1998, as well as informing voting
members of the Society of the selected nominees.

Additional candidates for election to the Board of Trustees may be
nominated by membership petition, filed with the Chair of the
Nominating Committee no later than 22 January 1999.  A petition for
the 1999 election will require the signatures of sixty-five voting
ISOC members (1% of the total voting members). Specific details of the
petition process will be included in the announcement of nominated
candidates on 19 December 1998.

Following the closure of the petition period, the list of the nominated and
petitioned candidates will be announced 29 January 1999.

The Election Committee will mail the ballots out to ISOC voting members on
26 February 1999 and the election date is set to be 3 May 1999.

Sincerely,

Kees Neggers
Chair, ISOC Nominations Committee
Kees.Neggers@SURFnet.nl
tel: +31 302 305 305
fax:  +31 302 305 329
------------------------------------------------------------------------

A. The 1999 ISOC Nominations Committee membership

1. Kees Neggers, Netherlands
2. John Gilmore, US
3. Jun Murai, Japan
4. Leni Mayo, Australia
5. Steve Wolff, US
6. Kim Claffy, US
7. Jill Foster, UK

Committee Email address:     isoc-noms@isoc.org
------------------------------------------------------------------------

B. Nominations Committee Selection Guidelines

Candidates for ISOC Trustee should have a demonstrable involvement in the
Internet. Such involvement may range from  participation as a technology
developer, researcher, user, network operator, policy maker (e.g. in
government), sponsor of research and development. ISOC is interested in
broadly-based representation on the Board of Trustees and seeks to identify
candidates from industry, education and non-profit sectors and from
government. The selection criteria will be directed to selecting a broad
range of interests, and will include criteria of regional location, current
activities, relevant experience and professional background.

Ten candidates will be selected by this committee, using the criteria as
outlined above.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

C. A Profile of the current Board of Trustees

"#" marks board positions that are expiring.
"&" marks board members who have indicated that they will not or cannot be
candidates for re-election.

The current membership (as of 1 November, 1998) of the Board of Trustees is
as follows:

#&Scott Bradner         1993-1999   USA      
Vint Cerf            1992-2001   USA      
#&Susan Estrada         1993-1999   USA      
#&David Farber          1993-1999   USA      
John Gilmore          1997-2000   USA      
Christian Huitema    1995-2001  France   
Geoff Huston    1992-1995, 1998-2001 Australia 
Christine Maxwell     1997-2000   France   
Jun Murai             1997-2000   Japan    
Kees Neggers    1992-1996, 1998-2001 
Tim O'Reilly         1995-2001   USA      
Jose Luis Pardos      1997-2000   Spain    <104056.110@compuserve.com>
#George Sadowsky       1996-1999   USA      
Ben Segal             1997-2000   Suisse   
#Vacancy
Donald Heath          Ex-officio  USA      

------------------------------------------------------------------------

D. Procedures for Nomination and Election of Trustees

1. Trustee Positions to be Filled

The Board of Trustees will advise the Nominating Committee of the number of
Trustee positions to be filled by vote of the individual members at each
annual election.  The Board may also advise the Nominating Committee of its
desires with respect to the backgrounds of individuals to be nominated in
order to achieve the balance of experience and qualifications required by
the provisions of By-Law Article III, Section 2, which provides that "the
Board shall seek to have among the Trustees representative individuals from
industry, from educational and nonprofit organizations and from government."

1.1  Date of Election

The Board of Trustees will annually adopt a timetable for Trustee
elections.  The election date shall be not less than 40 days prior to the
next Annual Meeting of the Society.

1.2  Use of Electronic Mail

All communications concerning the nomination and election of Trustees shall
be in the form of electronic mail except the ballot, which shall be in the
form of first class postal mail
or FAX.  Members of the Society who are not reachable by electronic  mail
may participate in the nomination process by postal mail or  FAX.

2.  Nominating Committee

The Board of Trustees will annually appoint a Trustee Nominating Committee.
The Nominating Committee will consist of  7 individual members of the
Society, 5 of whom shall constitute a valid quorum.  The Chair of the
Nominating Committee shall be a  member of the Board of Trustees.  At least
2 members of the  Nominating Committee shall be individual members of the
Society  not currently serving in any elected or appointed capacity in the
Society.

2.1  Nominations by Committee

The Nominating Committee will notify the members of the Society of the
procedures for nominating individuals for election to the Board of
Trustees, and will provide a minimum period for receiving nominations of 30
days.  The number of individuals nominated shall exceed the number of
Trustees to be elected.

2.2  Nominations by Petition

The Nominating Committee will notify the voting members of the Society of
the names of individuals nominated by the committee for election to the
Board of Trustees not less than 105 days prior to the date established for
Trustee elections.  Additional nominations for election to the Board of
Trustees may be made by petition filed with the Chair of the Nominating
Committee not less than 75 days prior to the election.  Petitions may be
filed electronically.  The Nominating Committee shall specify the number of
signatures of voting members required for petitions, which shall be at
least fifty voting members of the Society, or 1% of the total number of
voting members of the Society, whichever is greater.

2.3  Candidates for Election

The Nominating Committee will provide the names of a completed slate of
candidates for election to the Elections Committee not less than 74 days
prior to the election date.

3.  Elections Committee

The Board of Trustees will annually appoint an Elections Committee composed
of three voting members of the Society which will be responsible for
establishing and supervising elections. The Chair of the committee shall be
a Trustee whose term of office does not expire during the year of the
election.

3.1  Eligibility to Vote

All individual members of the Society in good standing are eligible to
vote.  An individual member is in good standing if his or her annual dues
are not more than 60 days past due on the date of mailing of the ballot.

3.2  Ballot

The Trustee election shall be conducted by written ballot of the individual
members, which shall be mailed to each member of the Society in good
standing not less than 60 days prior to the date of the election.

3.3  Voting

Each voting member will be entitled to as many votes as there are Trustee
positions to be filled by vote of the members.  Votes may be cumulated on
behalf of one or more candidates for election.  A member may use fewer than
the total number of votes available if he or she so chooses.

3.4  Receipt of Ballots

All ballots for Trustee elections shall be received by the Chair of the
Elections Committee by 5 PM local time on the day prior to the date of the
election, at the place established by the Elections Committee for delivery
of the ballots.

3.5  Counting of Ballots

The counting of ballots will take place on the election date, at a time and
place established by the Elections Committee.  At least two members of the
Elections Committee shall be present at the counting of the ballots.  The
committee will establish procedures to ensure the privacy, validity and
accuracy of all ballots.

3.6  Certification of Vote

The Elections Committee shall certify the results of the annual Trustee
election to the Board of Trustees within 10 days following the election,
forwarding a list of the candidates and the number of votes each candidate
has received.

3.7  Challenges

No challenge to any Trustee nomination or election procedure or result may
be brought except by an individual member in good standing.  Any challenge
must be addressed to the President of the Society with a recital of the
reasons for the challenge, and must be received within 20 days of the
election date.  The President, after consultation with the Chairs of the
Nominating and Elections Committees and the members of the Board of
Trustees, shall advise the author of the challenge of the Board's decision,
which shall be final, within 40 days of the election date.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

1999 ISOC Nomination and Trustee Election Committee Timetable

    November 17, 1998  . Nominations Period Opens
    December 17, 1998  . Nominations Period Closes
    December 19, 1999  . Nominations Committee Announcement
    January 22, 1999 . . Petition Period Closes
    January 29, 1999 . . Candidate Announcement
    February 26, 1999  . Ballots Posted
    March 1, 1999  . . . Election Period Opens
    May 3, 1999  . . . . Election Date
    May 3, 1999  . . . . Challenge Period Opens
    May 13, 1999 . . . . Elections Committee Certifies Result
    May 23, 1999 . . . . Challenge Period Closes
    June 12, 1999 . . . . ISOC Response to Challenge Period Closes
    June 21, 1999  . . . ISOC Board of Trustees Annual General Meeting

------------------------------------------------------------------------

F. Assumption of Office of Elected Trustees

The term of office of elected Trustees shall commence at the adjournment of
the next Board meeting following the completion of the election process.
The term of office for departing Trustees shall end at the adjournment of
the next Board meeting following the completion of the election process.
The Board meeting is defined as having one agenda, which may extend over
several days. The new Board may convene an organizational meeting after the
completion of the meeting of the outgoing Board.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 12:12:17 +0800
To: Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer 
Subject: Re: Securing data in memory (was "Locking physical memory (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199811281827.MAA04760@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981129212227.008e9440@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>Jim Choate wrote: 
>> If I had 2 of the Samsung 4G memory modules w/ battery back-up 
>> I could run an entire machine without a hard-drive.

Yeah - it can be quite nice to do that, both for security and speed.
Hugh Daniel's done some work on making Unix run on systems with 
read-only root drives - there are some SCSI drives which support
read-only mode again, and there are PCMCIA flash cards which have
write-protect switches and look like disks to the OS, 
so you can set them up the way you want and then go to read-only.

Not as many choices if you're running Microsoftware instead
of an operating system, though PCs give you some way to 
fake things out.  

At 11:26 PM 11/28/98 +0000, Frank O'Dwyer wrote:
>If you had no hard drive why the hell would you worry about disk
>swapping?

You need to jumpstart the machine somehow, and unless you 
burn the OS into PROMs, the easiest way is disk drives.
On the other hand, if Win9X wants to swap something to disk,
and there's no disk there, it could get pretty grouchy.

A long time ago, when disks and memory were both more expensive,
one of the memory companies (Kingston?  EMC?) made some SCSI boxes
with lots of memory in them, so the operating system doesn't
need to know that it's silicon and not rotating metal.
They also had UPS battery backup in them.
FSCK sure goes faster when you don't need to wait for mechanicals.
Some PCMCIA memory cards today just look like more RAM;
others can look like disks.


				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 12:18:26 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981129221723.008e9950@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 11:44 AM 11/28/98 -0600, Jim Choate wrote:
>My mistake. Since it really does only handle individual apps it's 
>of limited utility in the Windows world because of the numerous ways 
>to get system level access.   [....]
>Considering that this doesn't prohibit apps from getting access to that
>memory, it only prohibits that memory page from being written to disk, it
>has limited utility. It's only real protection is against disk scans.

Sure; it's only trying to do a limited scope of security protection.
Trying to protect an entire Win95/98 system is a much bigger job
(about like trying to keep water in an upside-down sieve :-)
Even running entirely in RAM doesn't prevent applications from
stealing keystroke, or stealing each others' RAM, or
crashing the graphics subsystem, or hosing the network.

Windows NT, under some limited circumstances, has been rated C2 Orange Book,
but that only means you can't steal most things without creating
a log file entry.   Don't expect Win95/98 to be something it's not.

>No, it wouldn't. The question of swap or virtual space is one of economics
>and not computer architecture. If it were economicaly feasible there would
>be no drives just fast main ram.

Computer architecture is _always_ a technical and economic tradeoff.
Why not just run everything out of Level 1 Cache or registers?
Disk drive makers keep making faster, cheaper, bigger drives,
DRAM makers keep making DRAM faster, cheaper, and bigger,
blazingly-fast SRAM makers keep making SRAM blazinglyer,
in-between technology makers keep making flash ram and bubble memory
in-betweener, bus makers make busses faster, etc.,
and the whole mess keeps evolving together.

Back in the mid-80s, Princeton University got some SDI money for the
Massive Memory Machine Project, researching what you could do if
you had enough memory for anything you wanted.  Even with the
CS approaches of the time, you'd do a lot of things differently.
Their non-massive toy machine was a 1.5MIPS VAX with 128MB RAM -
which took 10 extension racks to hold all the RAM.
These days 128MB is cheap, as are 500 MIPS P2s, but 50GB of RAM
is still bigger than most machines' busses will hold,
and even 2GB of DRAM is a lot bigger and more power-hungry than
most laptops can really support, much less 2GB of fast SRAM.

				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Frederick Burroughs 
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 11:54:47 +0800
To: Cypherpunks 
Subject: Net control attempted at the local level (Va.)
Message-ID: <36620EED.954CB5D8@shentel.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


A couple of recent Washington Post articles demonstrate Virginia's attempt
at internet regulation. A case of restricting access to internet sites
by public libraries in Loudoun Co. was ruled against by a federal court:
http://search.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPlate/1998-11/27/020l-112798-idx.html

A copy of the ruling:
http://www.techlawjournal.com/courts/loudon/81123op.htm
 
 

Virginia's governor, James Gilmore III, has appointed a commission on
internet technology to recommend policies on guiding internet business
and protecting internet users. Guidelines are touted by state officials
as being the first in the nation to *protect* residents. Ratification of
the recommendations is scheduled to take place at the College of William
and Mary on wednesday, Dec. 2, 1998.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPlate/1998-11/29/216l-112998-idx.html

Draft agenda of the meeting to be held on Dec. 2, titled "The State's
Role in Responsible Internet Growth", is at:
http://www.sotech.state.va.us/intagend.htm
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Information Security 
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 12:03:59 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: SIGH... NOT!! THC tainted oranges
Message-ID: <199811300337.WAA02625@panix7.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



   >   From: "Dr.G" 
   >
   >   I would certainly appreciate some pot.

You need something stronger to ease the pain of being Grubor.

   >   You use pot for medicine too, and the local supply
   >   in nil.  I may have to drive to the big Apple.

Sorry, you've been sentenced to life in Pittsburgh.
---guy

   Boo hoo hoo


> YOUR SEARCH REQUEST IS:
>  JOHN GRUBOR
>
>                   1ST STORY of Level 1 printed in FULL format.
>
>                              Copyright 1982 U.P.I.
>
>                       March 31, 1982, Wednesday, AM cycle
>
> SECTION: Regional News
>
> LENGTH: 129 words
>
> DATELINE: PITTSBURGH
>
> BODY:
>    A disbarred Butler County attorney who admitted stealing $28,000 from a
> client was sentenced to up to 23 months in prison Wednesday by an Allegheny
> County Common Pleas Court judge.
>
>    John Grubor, 36, of Butler, broke down and cried after Judge Robert E.
> Dauer imposed the 11-to-23-month prison term to be served at the state
> Correctional Institution at Greensburg, Westmoreland County.
>
>    The judge also ordered that Grubor spend five years on probation after
> completing the prison sentence.
>
>    Grubor pleaded guilty last month to one count of theft by failure to
> make required dispostion of funds entrusted to him. He admitted he bilked a
> client out of $28,000 in a workmen's compensation settlement.
>
>    The state Supreme Court disbarred Grubor as a result of the theft.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Frederick Burroughs 
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 12:26:56 +0800
To: Cypherpunks 
Subject: Re: Net control attempted at the local level (Va.)
In-Reply-To: <36620EED.954CB5D8@shentel.net>
Message-ID: <366217D6.CE665406@shentel.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Developing Internet Policy for Commonwealth, the first comprehensive state
internet legislation anywhere in the nation:
 http://www.sotech.state.va.us/102898.htm




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 13:06:56 +0800
To: Declan McCullagh 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981129233444.008ea910@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Hugh Daniel and various other people have commented (or ranted :-)
about the difference in wiretap capabilities between satellite systems
that do space-to-space relay connections for user-to-user calls and
systems that always include a ground segment even if it's not needed,
and which move traffic mostly on the ground instead of in space.

The primary reasons for doing this have been to reduce interference
by government PTTs or other monopoly telecom providers who get
a cut of the financial action this way, but it also makes the
system accessible to every wiretap-happy police force whose
territory the terrestrial segment passed through,
and the US government has probably been one of many players
trying to maximize government access.


At 10:21 PM 11/27/98 -0500, Declan McCullagh wrote:
>any reactions? some of my newspaper colleagues are thinking of writing
>about this...
>>---------- Forwarded message ----------
....
>>As a Europol internal document obtained by Telepolis shows, 
>>massive attempts on the part of European police forces are 
>>underway to acquire the ability to eavesdrop on the Iridium system, 
>>currently in a sensitive stage of expansion. 
....
>>http://www.telepolis.de/tp/english/inhalt/te/1667/1.html

				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 13:48:02 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Frames security hole
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981130001506.008e9e40@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



	------------------------------
	Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 12:27:16 +0000 (GMT)
	From: Lindsay.Marshall@newcastle.ac.uk
	Subject: Frames security hole

	There is a description and demo of a security hole with frames in web
	browsers at http://www.securexpert.com/framespoof/start.html - there is
	a version that works without javascript enabled as well.

	http://catless.ncl.ac.uk/Lindsay
	------------------------------

I checked it out, and it's way cool.  You open some frame-using target page,
such as www.citibank.com, in Netscape or Internet Exploder,
and cliok on their hack, and a new frame appears on the target page,
replacing some frame that belonged there.  They say they can fake out
Netscape's "key" icon that claims that an https: page is secure,
though I didn't have any handy frame-based https pages to test with.

Technical Discussion: http://www.securexpert.com/framespoof/tech.html
Some defenses http://www.securexpert.com/framespoof/defense.html
==> but the rel defense is getting your browser vendor to fix the browser.
Meanwhile, don't trust any web page with frames with any
information you care too much about.
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nobody@dragoncon.net (dctest Anonymous Remailer)
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 13:29:20 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: dctest remailer - remailer@dragoncon.net
Message-ID: <199811300459.XAA05002@inferno.serversystems.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



A new remailer will be up for the next two weeks.  This is an attempt to
play with and test the Win95 Reliable remailer software available at
ftp://ftp.efga.org/privacy

remailer@dragoncon.net is a Cypherpunk Type I remailer w/o Mix, which uses
RSA keys.  The operator had problems getting the later key types to work
properly.  Please send comments about the configuration and operation to
admin@dragoncon.net





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Martinus Luther" 
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 22:06:00 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: y2k/gary north delusions
Message-ID: <19981130131031.26101.qmail@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



VNZ quoted Gary North:

>  Astronomy is a precise science.  It can predict
>  events such as this one with remarkable accuracy.
>  The astronomers do not know how intense this
>  shower will be, but they know for certain that tonight
>  will be the highest density night. 

Actually they were 10 or 12 hours out - which 
in Europe at any rate had the effect that the 
highest density night was't the one predicted :-)

But I agree with you. This whole apocalyptic take on the thing is 
(almost certainly)  wrong. (Of course that doesn't mean you shouldn't 
prepare for it... if you honestly thought that spending a few hundred 
dollars could save you from a 1% chance of death, you'd probably do it. 
If the 99% turns out to be true what have you got - a year's supply of 
baked beans & sardines in tomato sauce)

Computers will crash - or rather more seriously  applications will 
produce bad results, this is much more an application problem than an OS 
problem - in fact things are already going wrong. But it won't happen 
all in one big bang on the 1st of January. Things will get slowly worse 
for the next year, the rate of problems will go up, more people will be 
knocking up quick-and-dirty work-arounds and fewer people working on new 
projects. North looks at it as a programming problem - but it's not,  
not when it actually hits,  it then becomes ann operations problem. And 
operators, system programmers & system administrators are used to 
working with computer systems that don't work. They do it every day. And 
the peopel who rely on computer systems are used to working when they go 
down. And if they aren't there are all those middle-aged middle-managers 
they laid off in the downsizing who can come back and show them how it 
used to be done. 

There will be hassle and hard work and very possibly a depression. But 
there is very, very unlikely to be the kind of catastrophic failure that 
North seems to long for.

And even if it does fall out that way, he's wrong about cities as well. 
We *know* cities survive a hell of a beating, we saw it again and again 
in WW2. (Take a look at  a picture of Hamburg in August 1943. They 
rebuilt that. Themselves, starting the day after)   The complete 
physical destruction of the infrastructure of a city does not kill a 
city.  A city is made of *people*, not buildings. People with the skills 
that make cities work, and people who - just because they are in a city 
- need to get along to make cities work. 

If all our big systems go down we will rebuild them. And what's more 
we'll rebuild them quickest in the big cities, because it's the big 
cities that have the concentration of people with the skills, and 
perhaps more importantly, the motivation to rebuild them.

(Anyway, despite North, in the event of a complete collapse of business 
and government probably the worst place to be is the outer suburbs. You 
need fuel to get around (in the inner cities everything is close by). If 
there are refugees from cities they have to pass through the suburbs - 
and there is a lot more to steal there than there is on the open 
countryside & a lot fewer people to stop you than in the city centres.)

*Real* rural life will continue of course, because people have the land 
and the skills to use it. And becauwse they tend to have stores. I don't 
know if it would be a very prosperous rural life for most people in the 
"developed" parts of the world though. I wonder what the sudden 
withdrawl of pesticides, herbicides, fertiliser, & fuel to fly the 
crop-sprayer would do to yields on the average American industrial farm? 
If the year 2000 is half as bad as North says it will be there will be a 
massive change in the balance of economic power away from North America 
and towards the so-called Third World. 

It looks like Gary North isn't really interested in the year 2000 
problem. What he is interested in seems to be guns. He's latched on to 
this issue because it allows him to think and write more about guns. 
And, like so many other gunwankers he seems to get off fantasising about 
the total collapse of civil society because that way he gets to feel 
good about his guns. All this obession with death and destruction is a 
bit strange in someone rumoured to be a Christian.

Of course where I am in London it's all academic. The nearest genuine 
open country is maybe 150 miles  away, in a different nation, on the 
other side of the Channel. Most of what passes for countyside in the 
south of England is really exurbia, a sort of huge extended suburbia got 
up to look rural. Less than one percent of the population actually works 
on the land. We have more computer programmers than farmers. Most people 
in London have never even met a farmer. If it all falls over we will 
just have to put it back up again because there is no-where else to go.

Hey, maybe North is right about the USA. Maybe all the programmers will 
leave town to starve in the country. Maybe the systems will never get 
fixed. Maybe heavily armed gangs will take over the cities.  Maybe you 
never will rebuild your civilization.  I hope not. But if it does turn 
out that way we'll send you some foreign aid.


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ken Williams 
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 23:40:55 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: F.U.D. ... or "The Webmaster of this site is on more than weed"
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----


Hi,

I came across a funny article about a "CIA, DEA, FBI, Lucent 
Technologies, Replay.com, Seed-bank.com Grand Conspiracy" at
http://members.tripod.com/~spookbusters/sunnysnooping.htm

Made for some interesting reading, and certain aspects of the 
site do merit discussion/investigation.

Regards,

Ken Williams

Packet Storm Security        http://www.Genocide2600.com/~tattooman/
E.H.A.P. Head of Operations  http://www.ehap.org/   ehap@ehap.org
NC State CS Dept  http://www.csc.ncsu.edu/   jkwilli2@unity.ncsu.edu
PGP DSS/DH/RSA Keys          http://www4.ncsu.edu/~jkwilli2/pgpkey/

_____________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free, Encrypted Email at http://www.nsa.gov


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Version: PGPfreeware 5.0i for non-commercial use
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ken Williams 
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 23:40:56 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: more FUD!
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Interesting FUD-related thread on my message board that is tied in
to the mail i just sent...

http://www.genocide2600.com/~tattooman/wb/messages/1011.html

Regards,

Ken Williams

Packet Storm Security        http://www.Genocide2600.com/~tattooman/
E.H.A.P. Head of Operations  http://www.ehap.org/   ehap@ehap.org
NC State CS Dept  http://www.csc.ncsu.edu/   jkwilli2@unity.ncsu.edu
PGP DSS/DH/RSA Keys          http://www4.ncsu.edu/~jkwilli2/pgpkey/

_____________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free, Encrypted Email at http://www.nsa.gov


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 03:07:44 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: "Export" controls
Message-ID: <3662E37B.2ADC@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> Export farce is just a neat way of scaring companies and individual
> contributors from developing and providing cryptographic systems 
> within US. 
>
100% accurate, but old, conclusions.

> Anyone providing domestic crypto runs the risk of violating EARs.
> Manufacturers are ultimately responsible when their products end up
> overseas...
>
Can you give me an example of a commercial vendor who has suffered
because someone bought a "dangerous" product ( Windows, for example ) at
retail and carried it out of the country in a suitcase? My guess would
be that anything sold at retail would pose no problem for the
manufacturer unless domestic regulations were in place. Even then the
retailer is the first in line for questioning.

> [ For example, try to buy one of IBM crypto-cards - give them a call
> and ask what does it take to purchase one with hard crypto on it
>
Save me the phone call and describe your experience. BTW - IBM derives a
large portion of its revenues from government contracts. They would be
pretty easy to convince. An non-dependant might be different.

> Would a US citizen have to produce ID in order to buy ?
>
Not until there are domestic regulations. Except for firearms,
cigarettes, alcohol and prescription drugs I can't think of any. My
guess would be that start-up manufacturers could get their tails twisted
long before the retail shelf:

Personal Audits
Business Audits
Supplier problems ( caused by similar techniques being threatened or
applied )
FCC EMI Test Delays and Failures
Credit Problems
Lots of Traffic Tickets for everyone.

It could be fun to try an embedded product. Make some development kits
then try to license it. Let a manufacturer with some resources handle
the heavy lifting. If you have trouble with that give 'em the bird -
just write a damn book, source, VHDL etc. You can even export that. My
favorites are:

Secure phone - I know it exists already but still fun

Disk encryptor - SCSI/EIDE, a bump in the wire between the motherboard
and the disk drive. With its own smartcard/keypad interface, keys are
never seen by OS. It doesn't solve the security problem while the system
is on but it sure as hell makes the disk useless to opponents once it
has been shut off. Good storage. Effectively shredded if you destroy the
smart card or forget the key. The proper way to keep your data as long
as the courts respect the Fifth Amendment.

Oh well,
Mike




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Sanford Whitehouse 
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 06:30:50 +0800
To: hab@gamegirlz.com
Subject: Re: more FUD!
In-Reply-To: <36630035.92E6B606@gamegirlz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> Hello.
> 
> First time poster.  Been reading for awhile now and I feel like a goof
> for having to ask, but what does FUD stand for anyway?
> 
> Thanks...
> 
> HaB
> 
> 

Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Robert A. Costner" 
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 04:14:51 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: dctest remailer - remailer@dragoncon.net
In-Reply-To: <199811300459.XAA05002@inferno.serversystems.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981130141527.03bf1130@rboc.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Currently no encrypted email is apparently getting through the dctest
remailer.  I'll look into fixing the problem later.  Only non encrypted
remailer mail is working.

At 05:00 AM 11/30/98 -0000, dctest Anonymous Remailer wrote:
>A new remailer will be up for the next two weeks.  This is an attempt to
>play with and test the Win95 Reliable remailer software available at
>ftp://ftp.efga.org/privacy
>
>remailer@dragoncon.net is a Cypherpunk Type I remailer w/o Mix, which uses
>RSA keys.  The operator had problems getting the later key types to work
>properly.  Please send comments about the configuration and operation to
>admin@dragoncon.net
>
>
  -- Robert Costner                  Phone: (770) 512-8746
     Electronic Frontiers Georgia    mailto:pooh@efga.org  
     http://www.efga.org/            run PGP 5.0 for my public key




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Eric Cordian 
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 05:28:38 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Sternbot on RSA
Message-ID: <199811302026.OAA18677@wire.insync.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Vin has now cloned his vigorous defense of the RSA patent to several
Usenet newsgroups, posting his "summary" of the discussion.

Sternlight now leaps in, to add his two cents worth.

In talk.politics.crypto David Sternlight  wrote:

> I simply cannot believe the post by Cordian below. His argument seem to
> be: 

Good morning, David.  We've missed you on the Cypherpunks List. 

> 1. I am right and the court is wrong.

No, David.  Vin's argument is that since the patents were upheld in court,
no knowlege of the specific algorithms or methods used to construct the
patented entity pre-dated the work which led to the patent. 

In point of fact, such things do not automatically invalidate patents. 
Certainly the concept of trapdoor functions, their cryptographic utility,
and that multiplication of primes was such a function, were known prior to
the development of the RSA Public Key Cryptosystem.  I vaguely recall that
encipherment by modular exponentiation has also been published as an
algorithm, albeit prior to the recognition that it had utility in
constructing public key systems. 

> 2. I vaguely recall a paper that might have been prior art.

Certainly the notion that the difficulty of factoring composites could
be employed in the construction of cryptographically useful things was
prior art.  The description of encryption by modular exponentiation I 
recall would have been additional prior art. 

> 3. It is disingenuous to say there has been no invalidating prior art
> even though the court has found the patent valid. 

There is a huge difference between "prior art" and "invalidating prior
art" under patent law.  Indeed, to invalidate the patent, it would have
been necessary not only to find a description of the mathematical methods
used in the construction of the RSA algorithm, but also a claim for the
specific use for secure communication over insecure data links. 

> 4. Cylink's arguments must be right even though they lost in court.

Some of Cylink's points were factually accurate.  A system which permits
the patenting of applied mathematics, which many engineers could have
independently derived, is hardly likely to stun us with a brilliant
interpretation of the various shades of meaning surrounding such claims
and counterclaims. 

Again, losing in court does not equate to ones facts being in error, any
more than it equates to the mathematics being patented being unknown prior
to their incarnation in the patented application.

> 5. RSA won because nobody could afford to litigate against them, even
> though Cylink did. 

RSADSI's aggressive litigation posture discouraged people from ignoring
their patent, and given that the patent could be licensed for much less
than a lengthy court fight, kept litigation to a minimum.  Cylink was
pretty much the sole exception to this, and that was a legal fight
internal to PKP.

> 6. Anyone can patent anything and nobody could afford to oppose them
> (N.B. Presumably not IBM, not DEC, not DuPont, ..oh well, you get the
> idea) 

Yes, David.  Practically anything can be patented.  The power of patents
is in defending them, not in applying for them, or in receiving them.

> 7. Rich, smart companies with big legal departments license bogus
> patents rather than litigating. 

Well, that depends on how you define bogus.  I consider patenting applied
math to be bogus.  Your mileage may vary. 

> 8. Someone who opposes me is a troll.

Someone who responds to a one line comment about the mathematical
underpinnings of RSA being previously known, with several multipage essays
whose central thesis is that such a claim cannot possible be true, because
the patent would have been invalidated by the courts, is a troll who
either understands nothing about how patents work, or is blowing a foghorn
on behalf of the patent holder.

> 9. If someone takes the time to oppose me, someone must be funding him.

Vin has already outed himself as someone who has done work for RSADSI.  He
has vociferously defended various key recovery schemes implemented in
their products against critics.  This, combined with his rabid insistance
that the RSA patent is something novel and unique, does equate to what
some of us might describe as a "vested interest" in the matter, directly
funded or not. 

> 10. The patent office never refuses patents on "method and apparatus"
> except in the case of perpetual motion machines. 

Patent examiners generally rely only upon the material presented with the
patent application when reviewing it, and expect people to do their own
searches, and correctly cite related patents.  Litigation is generally the
means by which patents are challenged, not by the patent office refusing
them, except in extrordinary circumstances, perpetual motion machines
being one well-known example. 

> 11. Security Dynamics is paying for those who oppose me.

I merely asked if Vin intended to bill them for the time he spent
writing his rants.  A rhetorical question. 

> 12. Such opposition is "a tirade".

Suggesting that I would have to retire my nym after criticizing the RSA
patent and taking several pages to say a paragraph of material certainly
qualifies as a tirade in my book, especially when combined with a lot of
irrelevent innuendo unrelated to the topic being discussed.

> 13. No corporations are buying products with GAK, key recovery, etc. 
> (N.B.  in That is what "no corporate demand" means). 

To an economist, perhaps.  It would be more accurate to say that demand as
a function of whether such features are included is a pretty flat
function. 

> 14. Someone who opposes stronger escrow/GAK/key recovery than RSA is
> offering must be suspect. 

Your point here eludes me.

> I could go on ...

And you usually do, and on, and on, and on...

> but it seems to me, knowing nothing about the parties involved and
> having no views on their personalities, that on the basis of the post
> below Cordian is uh, um, er, a few clauses short of a syllogism. 

I simply believe that patents on applied math are inappropriate.  Given
that they are allowed, it seems silly to cite the fact that the courts
uphold them as evidence for anything, particularly claims that they are 
new, novel, and non-obvious.

-- 
Sponsor the DES Analytic Crack Project
http://www.cyberspace.org/~enoch/crakfaq.html




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Dave Emery 
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 04:14:50 +0800
To: lcs Mixmaster Remailer 
Subject: Re: Securing data in memory (was "Locking physical memory (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <19981130180002.17576.qmail@nym.alias.net>
Message-ID: <19981130143320.A2756@die.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Mon, Nov 30, 1998 at 06:00:02PM -0000, lcs Mixmaster Remailer wrote:
> 
> But speaking of using passwords to protect data, how about an encrypted
> swapfile for a PC?  There are fast enough ciphers today that the virtual
> memory system could encrypt data as it swaps to the disk, and decrypt
> as it loads back into memory.  You'd type in the passphrase at boot time.

	Why the hell would you need a passphrase or any persistant security
for something transient like the swap ?   Might just as well choose a
completely random key (from /dev/urandom perhaps) and make every effort
to erase and forget it on system shutdown or crash.  In fact an algorithm
that initialized a crypto engine and then forgot the key used would
be ideal, provided only that it remains possible to recover blocks of
swap out of order from the order they were written in (they are quite
likely to get swapped back in a very different order than they were
written out, so simple stream ciphers are hard to use).

	There is nothing in a swapfile of value beyond an instantation
of the OS, except of course for snooping and debugging crashes.

	The only real hastle with doing this in real OS's is that the
swap may get initialized before a lot of randomness gets collected on
startup.   One might have to start encrypting swap after it was enabled
(but probably before much actual swapping).



-- 
	Dave Emery N1PRE,  die@die.com  DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass. 
PGP fingerprint = 2047/4D7B08D1 DE 6E E1 CC 1F 1D 96 E2  5D 27 BD B0 24 88 C3 18




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 04:54:00 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Big Brother Banks? FDIC has snooping plans
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


>Big Brother Banks? FDIC has snooping plans
>By David M. Bresnahan
>Copyright 1998 WorldNetDaily.com
>
>
> Are you a potential criminal? Are you a threat to banks, airlines, a
>potential spy, or perhaps an IRS tax protester? The government
>would like to know and they are about to force banks to be their
>detectives.
>
>The federal government wants banks to investigate you. Soon your
>banker will know more about you than anyone else in town. Banks
>must not only determine your correct identity, they must also know
>how you make your money, and how you spend it. Once you
>establish a pattern of deposits and withdrawals, banks must inform
>federal agencies when you deviate.
>
>Bank customers may soon find themselves explaining to the FBI,
>Internal Revenue Service, and the Drug Enforcement Agency why
>they made a $15,000 deposit to their bank account. According to
>current Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation plans, banks will
>soon establish "profiles" of their customers and report deviations
>from those profiles.
>
>If you sell a car, for example, and place the proceeds in your
>account while you shop for a new one, a red flag may go off in the>bank
> computer. Such a situation puts law abiding citizens in a
>situation where they must prove they are innocent, says Scott
>McDonald of the watchdog group Fight the Fingerprint.
>
>An uproar from grass roots Americans is the only thing that will
>stop the current plans for the FDIC "Know Your Customer"
>program, according to McDonald. His organization has led the
>charge against the national ID, medical ID, and computerized
>information about private aspects of people's lives.
>
>A recent announcement by the FDIC provides for citizen comment
>prior to implementation of their new banking regulations. The
>deadline for comments is Dec. 27, 1998.
>
>"The FDIC is proposing to issue a regulation requiring insured
>nonmember banks to develop and maintain 'Know Your Customer'
>programs," according to a recent FDIC information package sent
>to Congress to provide notice of proposed rulemaking, and to
>banks for comment.
>
>"As proposed," the 29-page FDIC document begins, "the
>regulation would require each nonmember bank to develop a
>program designed to determine the identity of its customers;
>determine its customers' source of funds; determine the normal
>and expected transactions of its customers; monitor account
>activity for transactions that are inconsistent with those normal and
>expected transactions; and report anytransactions of its customers
>that are determined to be suspicious, in accordance with the
>FDIC's existing suspicious activity reporting regulation. By
>requiring insured nonmember banks to determine the identity of
>their customers, as well as to obtain knowledge regarding the
>legitimate activities of their customers, the proposed regulation will
>reduce the likelihood that insured nonmember banks will become
>unwitting participants in illicit activities conducted or attempted by
>their customers. It will also level the playing field between
>institutions that already have adopted formal 'Know Your
>Customer' programs and those that have not."
>
>Many banks across the country have already begun to implement
>such programs, according to the FDIC. A quick search of the
>Internet found many stories in press accounts of problems reported
>at such banks. There have been a number of stories dealing with
>banks requiring fingerprints to open accounts and to cash checks.
>There are several lawsuits presently underway testing the right of
>banks to make that requirement.
>
>McDonald has been fighting that issue, along with fingerprints on
>driver's licenses for some time. He pointed out the many errors
>found on credit reports and suggested that banks will soon make
>similar errors when they begin creating profiles of their customers.
>
>The FDIC is selling the planned regulations by pointing out the
>need for prevention of financial and other crime.
>
>"By identifying and, when appropriate, reporting such transactions
>in accordance with existing suspicious activity reporting
>requirements, financial institutions are protecting their integrity and
>are assisting the efforts of the financial institution regulatory
>agencies and law enforcement authorities to combat illicit activities
>at such institutions," says the FDIC.
>
>The proposed regulation is, according to FDIC spokesperson Carol
>A. Mesheske, authorized by current law. It comes from the
>statutory authority granted the FDIC under section 8(s)(1) of the
>Federal Deposit Insurance Act (12 U.S.C. 18189s)(1), as amended
>by section 259(a)(2) of the Crime Control Act of 1990 (Pub. L.
>101-647).
>
>The FDIC claims that the law requires them to develop regulations
>to require banks to "establish and maintain internal procedures
>reasonably designed to ensure and monitor compliance with the
>Bank Secrecy Act. Effective 'Know Your Customer' programs
>serve to facilitate compliance with the Bank Secrecy Act."
>
>The proposed regulations will mandate that all banks insured by
>the FDIC must maintain an intelligence gathering department that
>screens out customers and keeps an eye on existing customers.
>Before you decide to move your money to a credit union, you
>should know that the FDIC is not the only federal organization
>making such plans.
>
>"Each of the other Federal bank supervisory agencies is proposing
>to adopt substantially identical regulations covering state member
>and national banks, federally-chartered branches and agencies of
>foreign banks, savings associations, and credit unions. There also
>have been discussions with the Federal regulators of non-bank
>financial institutions, such as broker-dealers, concerning the need
>to propose similar rules governing the activities of these non-bank
>institutions," reports FDIC attorney Karn L. Main in the proposal.
>
>The purposes for the regulation are to protect the reputation of the
>banks, to facilitate compliance with the law, to improve safe and
>sound banking practices, and to protect banks from being used by
>criminals as a vehicle for illegal activities.
>
>Current customers will be subjected to the new regulation in the
>same way new customers will be scrutinized. The FDIC does not
>wish to permit any loop hole which would leave any bank
>customer unidentified or unsupervised.
>
>Each bank will create profiles. The first profile will determine the
>amount of risk a potential customer might present by opening an
>account. The system of profiling potential customers will be
>different from one bank to the next, since the FDIC does not
>provide a uniform program. The purpose of the profile is to
>identify potential customers who might use a bank account for
>funds obtained through criminal activity.
>
>The next profile will be one that is used by automated computers
>to determine when suspicious activity is taking place in an account.
>When activity in the account does not fit the profile, banks will
>notify federal authorities so they can investigate.
>
>Banks are expected to identify their customers, determine normal
>and expected transactions, monitor account transactions, and
>determine if a particular transaction should be reported.
>
>The FDIC has sent copies of the proposal to all banks and is
>asking for input. The questions asked by the FDIC in the proposal
>do not ask whether the regulations should be put into place, only
>how to implement them in the best way. None of the questions in
>the proposal are directed to bank customers.
>
>The FDIC reassures banks that because the requirements will be
>universally applied to all banks it will not hurt their business and
>drive away customers. The proposal does not mention penalties for
>non-compliance, nor is there any mention of regulations to provide
>access to bank records by customers so errors can be found and
>corrections made.
>
>"If 'Know Your Customer' programs are required, insured
>nonmember banks can more easily collect the necessary
>information because customers cannot turn readily to another
>financial institution free of such requirements," stated the proposal.
>
>Comments from the public may be sent to Robert E. Feldman,
>Executive Secretary, Attn: Comments/OES, Federal Deposit
>Insurance Corporation, 550 17th Street N.W., Washington, DC
>20429 or faxed to (202) 898-3838 or e-mailed to
>comments@FDIC.gov.
>
>--------------------------
>GunsSaveLives Internet Discussion List
>
>This list is governed by an acceptable use
>policy: http://www.wizard.net/~kc/policy.html
>or available upon request.
>
>To unsubscribe send a message to
>majordomo@listbox.com
>
>with the following line in the body:
>
>unsubscribe gsl
>
>GUNSSAVELIVES (GSL) IS A PRIVATE UNMODERATED LIST.
>THE OWNER TAKES NO RESPONSIBILTY FOR CONTENT. ALL
>RIGHTS RESERVED.


--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: HaB 
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 05:23:49 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: more FUD!
Message-ID: <36630035.92E6B606@gamegirlz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Hello.

First time poster.  Been reading for awhile now and I feel like a goof
for having to ask, but what does FUD stand for anyway?

Thanks...

HaB





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Parson 
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 06:52:37 +0800
To: HaB 
Subject: Re: more FUD!
In-Reply-To: <36630035.92E6B606@gamegirlz.com>
Message-ID: <199811302158.PAA10066@fargo.ocx.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



In message <36630035.92E6B606@gamegirlz.com>, you write:
> Hello.
> 
> First time poster.  Been reading for awhile now and I feel like a goof
> for having to ask, but what does FUD stand for anyway?

Fear
Uncertainty
Doubt

-- 
Michael Parson
Sr. Systems Administrator
IXC Internet Services




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: lcs Mixmaster Remailer 
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 03:09:26 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Securing data in memory (was "Locking physical memory (fwd)
Message-ID: <19981130180002.17576.qmail@nym.alias.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Bill Stewart wrote:

> Back in the mid-80s, Princeton University got some SDI money for the
> Massive Memory Machine Project, researching what you could do if
> you had enough memory for anything you wanted.  Even with the
> CS approaches of the time, you'd do a lot of things differently.
> Their non-massive toy machine was a 1.5MIPS VAX with 128MB RAM -
> which took 10 extension racks to hold all the RAM.
> These days 128MB is cheap, as are 500 MIPS P2s, but 50GB of RAM
> is still bigger than most machines' busses will hold,
> and even 2GB of DRAM is a lot bigger and more power-hungry than
> most laptops can really support, much less 2GB of fast SRAM.

There used to be a rule of thumb that you'd want roughly a megabyte
per megahertz.  Today, with our 200+ MHz processors, we tend to have
considerably less memory than this.  My Gateway PC from a couple of
years ago came with a 200 MHz Pentium Pro but only 32 MB of memory.

Most PCs today are not well balanced architecturally.  They should
really have a couple hundred megabytes of memory.  Memory is cheap
enough today that this can be added, but the motherboard configuration
may limit the amount.  If you had this much memory, swapping to disk
would be a smaller problem.

As for the idea of running without a disk drive, see the handheld PDAs
like the PalmPilot and the Microsoft WinCE machines.  The problem with
these from the security standpoint is that the memory is non-volatile.
With a PC, we don't worry too much about junk in memory because we turn
it off occasionally.  We are concerned about the disk because that is
where the persistent storage is.

But with a memory-only machine, you end up using your memory as a de-facto
disk drive, so that the contents of memory become just as sensitive as
the contents of disk would be on a PC.  Someone who gets hold of your
PDA can dump out memory and find sensitive data which is stored there.
Theoretically you can use a password to protect data, but then there are
tradeoffs between security and ease of use, and you may end up leaving
data exposed for extended periods.

But speaking of using passwords to protect data, how about an encrypted
swapfile for a PC?  There are fast enough ciphers today that the virtual
memory system could encrypt data as it swaps to the disk, and decrypt
as it loads back into memory.  You'd type in the passphrase at boot time.

This would solve the problem of sensitive data leaking onto the disk via
the swapfile.  There could still be traces in memory, but at least this
most obvious leak would be plugged.  You don't have to wait for apps to
be rewritten to use secure memory allocation drivers, you get the benefit
immediately.

Can existing encrypting-filesystem drivers be used for swapfiles?




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 09:25:53 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: y2k/gary north delusions
In-Reply-To: <19981130131031.26101.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 8:10 AM -0500 11/30/98, Martinus Luther wrote:

>*Real* rural life will continue of course, because people have the land
>and the skills to use it. And becauwse they tend to have stores. I don't
>know if it would be a very prosperous rural life for most people in the
>"developed" parts of the world though. I wonder what the sudden
>withdrawl of pesticides, herbicides, fertiliser, & fuel to fly the
>crop-sprayer would do to yields on the average American industrial farm?
>If the year 2000 is half as bad as North says it will be there will be a
>massive change in the balance of economic power away from North America
>and towards the so-called Third World.

	So true.

	All these would be rambo's with their Gas Guzzling SUV's, 4WD
Pickup Trucks, and 2 days supply of fuel stored up, and 4 months supply of
food right above their belt.

	Hell, half of 'em will die from heart attacks trying to get out of
the city.

>It looks like Gary North isn't really interested in the year 2000
>problem. What he is interested in seems to be guns. He's latched on to
>this issue because it allows him to think and write more about guns.
>And, like so many other gunwankers he seems to get off fantasising about
>the total collapse of civil society because that way he gets to feel
>good about his guns. All this obession with death and destruction is a
>bit strange in someone rumoured to be a Christian.

	Nah, a lot of christians are obsessed with Death & Destuction.

>Hey, maybe North is right about the USA. Maybe all the programmers will
>leave town to starve in the country. Maybe the systems will never get

	Not all. Most couldn't FIND the country.

>fixed. Maybe heavily armed gangs will take over the cities.  Maybe you
>never will rebuild your civilization.  I hope not. But if it does turn
>out that way we'll send you some foreign aid.

	Crap, if we go down, you will to.
--
"To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a
jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a
gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather naďve, and certainly
unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust"
http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html

Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro@playboy.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 02:34:05 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: custom protocol = job security
Message-ID: <199811301742.SAA04040@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




At 08:54 AM 11/30/98 -0600, Brown, R Ken wrote:
>> Dianelos Georgoudis[SMTP:dianelos@tecapro.com] described a security system
>
>If I was a bank I would be very wary of  proposals like "We would write our
>own transmission protocol. " That seems to introduce yet more complexity,

custom protocol = job security













  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 10:05:29 +0800
To: nobody@replay.com (Anonymous)
Subject: Re: Old Hat 2
In-Reply-To: <199811302325.AAA15856@replay.com>
Message-ID: <199812010116.TAA16536@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Anonymous wrote:
> 
> 
> Here's what is likely going on right now, though its
> availability to LE is questionable:
> 
> NSA probably maintains surveillance of all or nearly all
> encrypted remailers. They log and archive the content of
> all traffic. First arrivals of messages in the remailer
> "cloud" provide source identification in many cases, so

Well...

I just realized that the huge amount of spam that is being relayed
through remailers, might actually increase remailer security for
all of us. I understand that the remailer operators probably have
bandwidth limitations, but at least some spam is good.

Please do not fight spam as much as you do.

igor

> a database is gradually built of all the originating
> email addresses and IP addresses that have ever sent
> messages to a remailer. The same is true for the messages
> exiting the cloud, although many of those go to public
> lists or newsgroups. Sometimes, perhaps even often, the
> remailer cloud is so little utilised that one-hop or even
> multi-hop chained remalings are easily identified as to
> source and final destination. All goes into the database.
> Spook-style stylometers develop profiles of the users.
> Over time, more and more of the unidentified profiles
> become linked to known users. All it takes is one slip,
> or one piece of bad luck of low traffic levels. Linkage
> is also done on a probabilistic basis, many-to-many.
> Little human intervention is used except to develop and
> tune the correlation mechanisms. Filters aimed at content
> that might help correlate messages with senders is more 
> important to the spooks than Echelon Dictionary filters.
> The priorities in getting a handle on something like the
> remailer cloud are quite different than the priorities in
> scanning ordinary traffic for content. Ultimately, though,
> the regular content filters come into play, but in this
> ongoing exercise of cat and mouse, the bulk of the effort
> is directed at developing the combination of surveillance
> and intelligent processing that can provide the basis for
> identifying, at least to some knowable probability, the
> sources and destinations of given remailer messages.
> 
> Source and destination correlation can benefit greatly
> from knowledge of conventional email correspondent 
> relationships. Most nonprofessional-spook people who send 
> encrypted remailed email to a non-public destination are 
> also likely to correspond with that destination in the 
> clear. Archival logging of traffic is like a time machine -
> even if one ceases conventional correspondence with
> another, any past traffic can reveal the correspondence
> relationship.
> 
> Mathematical correlation, given a very large amount of raw
> data consisting of timestamped message events, can reveal
> quite a lot about likely correspondence relationships.
> Even given a remailer network full of chaff, with reordered
> message pools and such, just running correlations on the
> end point data - who sent and when, and who received and when
> - can develop likely correspondent pairs.
> 
> Be assured that the manipulation of such data relies heavily
> on probablistic clustering supported by database mechanisms
> not seen much in business environments. Instead of having
> firm relationships within an order or two of magnitude of
> the terminal node population, I would want something that
> allows having very large numbers of fuzzy relationships
> numbering many orders of magnitude greater than the node
> population. Nodes A, B, C and D send and receive remailer
> traffic. Everything that A has ever sent is clearly
> related to A, but each item can and likely would also
> have a probabilistic relationship to B, C, and D. The
> probability assignments would be updated as later analysis
> and later data more clearly identify who may have received 
> which messages. Content comes into play here, too.
> 
> At any time it is possible to query the database for
> the likely correspondents of A, and the likely messages
> A may have sent to B, C, or D, and get a result ordered
> by confidence. Similarly, it is possible to query for
> the likely sender(s) and recipient(s) of a given message.
> Occasionally, data may be firmed up - meaning achieving 
> higher confidence levels of the relationships - by access 
> to someone's PC, by whatever means, by stylometry, by 
> specific content of public messages, and by fortuitous 
> traffic analysis successes owing to the paucity of remailer 
> traffic.
> 
> It's also certain that to provide realistic cases that can
> be fully revealed to measure the efficacy of the various
> algorithms and methods involved, spooks use the remailer
> network themselves. That's the only way they can be sure
> to have any traffic that can be fully analyzed as a yardstick
> for the guessing games played by their software.
> 
> A few rules of thumb result from even cursory examination
> of the likely environment:
> 
> 1. Do not send clear messages through the remailers 
>    except to public lists and newsgroups. Sending clear
>    messages to private correspondents provides the 
>    watchers with rich style and content material linked
>    to a correspondent. It is usually easy then to link
>    it back to you, and a firm correspondent pair is then
>    established in their database.
> 
> 2. Do not switch between clear and encrypted, remailed 
>    communication with the same correspondent. If your
>    correspondent relationships are mapped via clear,
>    conventional mail, those mappings can be applied to
>    your encrypted, remailed mail to greatly narrow 
>    down the possible recipients, and quite likely 
>    combine with traffic analysis to correlate your
>    outgoing message with one arriving at your
>    correspondent. If the only communications you have
>    with your deep contacts is by encrypted, chained
>    remailer, only fortuitous or statistical correlation
>    analysis or access to your or your correspondent's
>    host machines will tie the two of you together.
> 
> 3. Do not send traffic to significant correspondents
>    when traffic levels are likely to be low. Good
>    luck at guessing this. Probably the best way to
>    get a handle on traffic levels is to run a remailer
>    yourself.
> 
> 4. Send lots of chaff. Chain some messages through the
>    remailer cloud every day. If you have time and the
>    ability, write and release something that will allow
>    large numbers of people to send lots of chaff.
> 
> 5. Ultimately, the only way the remailers will provide
>    what might be described as Pretty Good Security will
>    be when we have software that maintains a regular
>    or random rate of messages to and from the remailer
>    cloud, a stream into which the meaningful messages
>    can be inserted with no visible change in traffic.
>    Until then, the best we can do is try to keep traffic
>    levels up, and to send and receive frequently enough
>    to frustrate end-to-end traffic analysis.
> 
> 6. Don't send anything that can have grave consequences.
> 
> 7. Take names. Always take names. Some day...
> 
> FUDBusterMonger
> 
> It Ain't FUD til I SAY it's FUD!
> 



	- Igor.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 03:05:56 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: F.U.D. ... or "The Webmaster of this site is on more than weed"
Message-ID: <199811301823.TAA08331@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Ken Williams writes:

> I came across a funny article about a "CIA, DEA, FBI, Lucent 
> Technologies, Replay.com, Seed-bank.com Grand Conspiracy" at
> http://members.tripod.com/~spookbusters/sunnysnooping.htm

This is a critique of an article describing a way to do anonymous email
and how to use remailers.  The original article proposed using the Lucent
privacy proxy at www.lpwa.com as an intermediary to a free email server
like hotmail.  The critique got all hot and bothered over the fact that
Lucent is a government contractor and so the original post must have been
a plant by the FBI.

In fact, the LPWA-Hotmail technique is suitable for moderately secure
anonymity but not for lawbreaking.  This poster has used the technique
occasionally for over a year.  It is certainly better than hotmail alone,
since hotmail includes the originating IP address in its outgoing email.
By using LPWA, the originating IP field holds the LPWA IP address, and
the actual originating IP address is not revealed.

However, as LPWA clearly states in their privacy policy
(http://lpwa.com:8000/policy.html), they keep logs of connections,
and will make those available to law enforcement if presented with a
court order.  This would make it possible to track down the originating
IP which sent the mail.

Despite its limitations, this technique has the advantages of ease of
use and moderate security.  All you have to do is to set the lpwa.com
proxy in your browser, and use hotmail for email.  You can both send
and receive email, which is hard to do with any other technique.  It is
comparable in security and convenience to the late anon.penet.fi server,
which did much to increase awareness of anonymity technologies on the net.

(The original article was titled "Quick and Dirty Anonymity", which
seems an accurate enough description.)




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 12:03:16 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Securing data in memory (was "Locking physical memory (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <19981130180002.17576.qmail@nym.alias.net>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 10:00 AM -0800 11/30/98, lcs Mixmaster Remailer wrote:

>There used to be a rule of thumb that you'd want roughly a megabyte
>per megahertz.  Today, with our 200+ MHz processors, we tend to have
>considerably less memory than this.  My Gateway PC from a couple of
>years ago came with a 200 MHz Pentium Pro but only 32 MB of memory.
>
>Most PCs today are not well balanced architecturally.  They should
>really have a couple hundred megabytes of memory.  Memory is cheap
>enough today that this can be added, but the motherboard configuration
>may limit the amount.  If you had this much memory, swapping to disk
>would be a smaller problem.

Some of us are more balanced...

My G3 Powerbook has 160 MB of RAM for a 240 MHz processor.

My recollection is that "Amdahl's Law" was only a rule of thumb within an
order of magnitude or so. I'm not a computer architect, so I don't what a
good ratio today would be.

--Tim May

"I swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, just the way the President did."
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ken Williams 
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 09:28:22 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: somebody clue this person in please!
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

i'm laughing too damned hard to do it myself.

Regards,

Ken Williams

Packet Storm Security        http://www.Genocide2600.com/~tattooman/
E.H.A.P. Head of Operations  http://www.ehap.org/   ehap@ehap.org
NC State CS Dept  http://www.csc.ncsu.edu/   jkwilli2@unity.ncsu.edu
PGP DSS/DH/RSA Keys          http://www4.ncsu.edu/~jkwilli2/pgpkey/

_____________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free, Encrypted Email at http://www.nsa.gov


- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
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	by cc01mh.unity.ncsu.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA00863
	for ; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 19:04:29 -0500 (EST)
From: ILovToHack@aol.com
Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.66])
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Message-ID: 
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 19:01:47 EST
To: jkwilli2@unity.ncsu.edu
Mime-Version: 1.0
Subject: Re: more FUD!
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Casablanca - Windows sub 224

In a message dated 11/30/98 10:15:50 AM EST, jkwilli2@unity.ncsu.edu writes:

> Get Your Private, Free, Encrypted Email at http://www.nsa.gov

I looked around there site and couldnt find anything about geting a e-mail
could you please be more specific.

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 10:34:36 +0800
To: petro@playboy.com (Petro)
Subject: gunnuts and Y2K
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199812010154.TAA17022@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



> At 8:10 AM -0500 11/30/98, Martinus Luther wrote:
> >It looks like Gary North isn't really interested in the year 2000
> >problem. What he is interested in seems to be guns. He's latched on to
> >this issue because it allows him to think and write more about guns.
> >And, like so many other gunwankers he seems to get off fantasising about
> >the total collapse of civil society because that way he gets to feel
> >good about his guns. All this obession with death and destruction is a
> >bit strange in someone rumoured to be a Christian.

Well... I think that dismissing someone's thoughts on the basis of
psychobabble is never a good idea. Gary North's psyche may or may not be
fucked up, but even fucked up people oftentimes come up with good ideas.

On the other hand, the above is a good observation that I happen to agree
with. If you browse misc.survivalism (a useful newsgroup) you would
see a lot of gunnuts who can't have a single good idea of their own,
except for inventing scenarios where their guns may become useful.

I am not suggesting that all gunnuts are stupid, or that it is imprudent
to own firearms to prepare for various contingencies, not at all. I am
even very much pro-second amendment.

But objectively, there is a large category of people who are bored
with their current lifestyle and gleefully expect a "total breakdown"
of the society so that they could shoot live man sized targets instead
of boring paper targets.

They are likely to be disappointed by Y2K, or so I expect. (again,
my expectation that social breakdown is not likely to happen does
not preclude me from reasonable preparations)

The interesting question that arises out of all this, is trying to
predict what these people's impact on the actual Y2K events would be.

Would there be a big number of unprovoked shootings at groups of blacks
who happen to walk down on a wrong street? How should people behave in
order not to get shot by mistake? Would those people contribute to any
unrest that could happen? Which areas are best avoided?

igor




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Eric Cordian 
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 11:45:59 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: SternFUD on RSA
Message-ID: <199812010235.UAA19311@wire.insync.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



:)

David Sternlight  opines:
 
> I am not on the Cypherpunks list. Given the tone of some posters I
> don't' see that as a useful list.
 
I wonder who won the pool on how long you would last before departing
in a tiff. :)
 
But I digress.
 
> You already made this argument. It could have been (and perhaps was)
> made in court. Despite that the patent was upheld. That is "I am
> right and the court is wrong."
 
I think that regulations which permit applied math to be patented are
counterproductive, as do many other countries.  Given that such
regulations are in place in the United States, one would expect them
to be upheld by the courts.  Whether any of this is "wrong" in some
abstract sense is a religious debate, in which I am uninterested.
 
Let us examine the two statements:
 
 I.  Certainly, given what was known at the time widespread
     data communications created a commercial demand for
     secure communication over insecure lines, a person
     setting out to create a software solution to the
     problem, knowing what was then known about
     cryptography, trapdoor functions, and other techniques,
     would almost certainly have employed modular
     exponentiation or discrete logs to solve the problem.
     If RSA hadn't been patented at the time it was, it most
     certainly would have been independently discovered by
     multiple individuals and widely employed, without the
     present licensing restrictions.  Prior published works
     on cryptographic trapdoor functions involving the
     factoring of composites and possibly even encryption by
     modular exponentiation existed long before the RSA
     patent.
 
II.  Obvious prior art sufficient [in the current regulatory
     environment surrounding patents in the US] to
     invalidate the RSA patent in court has never been
     published.
 
Now, given that these two statements are not opposites of each other,
one is not going to refute the first by stating the second, no matter
how big a bullhorn one employs.
 
>> There is a huge difference between "prior art" and "invalidating prior
>> art" under patent law.  Indeed, to invalidate the patent, it would
>> have been necessary not only to find a description of the mathematical
>> methods used in the construction of the RSA algorithm, but also a
>> claim for the specific use for secure communication over insecure data
>> links.
 
> It seems to me you are agreeing with my comment here.
 
I have only argued that obvious prior art exists.  I have also stated
that I would favor a regulatory climate in which such obvious prior
art would preclude a patent being granted.  I have never stated that
we currently live in such a regulatory climate.  In fact, we do not.
 
> Pretty far-fetched response. They tried to overturn the patent on
> grounds of prior art. They failed. End of story.
 
Many words, like "prior art," have specific legal meanings which
differ from their common English usage.  Kind of like economists
arguing that there is no "demand" for food by poor people, because
they have no money with which to purchase it.  I use the term "obvious
prior art" to mean prior publication of the essential methods and
techniques with which a technically skilled person, given the same
problem to solve, would arrive at the same or a similar solution.
 
Put two graduate students at opposite ends of a wire, with the world's
prior-to-1977 writings on cryptography, trapdoor functions, the
intractablity of factoring the product of primes, and the modular
exponentiation problem.  I suspect the RSA Public Key Cryptosystem
would not be long in emerging, even if one employed particularly dense
graduate students.
 
That is what I mean when I use the term "obvious prior art."
 
> Again, it seems you've conceded my point here. What part of "nobody"
> don't you understand?
 
I was proceeding upon the assumption that the enumerated "points" you
claimed I was making were ones with which you disagreed.  If that is
not the case, I am prepared to declare early victory.
 
"Nobody could afford to litigate [against RSADSI]" is misleading, as
even the wealthy don't employ the expensive option, when a cheap one
is available.  Besides, I have never contested that the current
regulatory climate supports the patenting of things like RSA even in
the presence of prior publication of the essential mathematical
elements.
 
>>> 6. Anyone can patent anything and nobody could afford to oppose them
>>> (N.B. Presumably not IBM, not DEC, not DuPont, ..oh well, you get the
>>> idea)
 
>> Yes, David.  Practically anything can be patented.  The power of
>> patents is in defending them, not in applying for them, or in
>> receiving them.
 
> Again you concede my point by ignoring the operative clause. What
> part of "nobody" don't you understand?
 
There were plenty of companies who had the financial power to squash
RSADSI like a grape, and probably change the regulatory climate as
well.  There was no incentive for them to do so, and they probably
have applied mathematical patents of their own which they are fond of.
 
Had RSADSI sat on the patent, and refused to license it to others,
both they and their patent would probably have had a very short life
span.
 
>>> 7. Rich, smart companies with big legal departments license bogus
>>> patents rather than litigating.
 
>> Well, that depends on how you define bogus.  I consider patenting
>> applied math to be bogus.  Your mileage may vary.
 
> RSA didn't patent applied math. They patented processes which may
> use, or be described in part with applied math.
 
Yes, the "method and apparatus" transformation.
 
> The facts are that rich, smart companies litigate patents all the
> time so your contention is false on its face.
 
They rarely litigate patents where the cost to litigate is enormous,
the technology may be cheaply licensed, and the chances of success, or
of even trying to explain the topic to the average layman, are
minimal.
 
>> Someone who responds to a one line comment about the mathematical
>> underpinnings of RSA being previously known, with several multipage
>> essays whose central thesis is that such a claim cannot possible be
>> true, because the patent would have been invalidated by the courts, is
>> a troll who either understands nothing about how patents work, or is
>> blowing a foghorn on behalf of the patent holder.
 
> Another guilty plea.
 
Well, I suppose Vin could just be a bored essayist in need of
something to practice on.  (Snicker)
 
>>> 9. If someone takes the time to oppose me, someone must be funding him.
 
>> Vin has already outed himself as someone who has done work for
>> RSADSI.  He has vociferously defended various key recovery schemes
>> implemented in their products against critics.  This, combined with
>> his rabid insistance that the RSA patent is something novel and
>> unique, does equate to what some of us might describe as a "vested
>> interest" in the matter, directly funded or not.
 
> Another failed refutation. Your words were unequivocal.
 
I think you are having some difficulty separating out the sarcasm
here.  Besides, the suggestion that Vin has a vested interest in
defending the RSA patent hardly translates into an assertion that
everyone who disagrees with me on some subject is someone's paid
agent.
 
Abstraction from the specific to the general is not an accepted tool
of inference.
 
You, for instance, are probably quibbling for entirely different
reasons.
 
> I think the problem with most of your post is that you have taken the
> odd exception or the odd passing issue and tried to make them out to
> be the general case; in short your post was highly overblown as well
> as redolent of personal attack. Had you discussed the issue more
> temperately in terms of your factual claims it might have been more
> useful.
 
That sometimes happens when one party "summarizes" a flame war, and
posts it elsewhere.  Deal.
 
>>> 10. The patent office never refuses patents on "method and apparatus"
>>> except in the case of perpetual motion machines.
 
>> Patent examiners generally rely only upon the material presented with
>> the patent application when reviewing it, and expect people to do
>> their own searches, and correctly cite related patents.  Litigation is
>> generally the means by which patents are challenged, not by the patent
>> office refusing them, except in extrordinary circumstances, perpetual
>> motion machines being one well-known example.
 
> See above. You were unequivocal.
 
"Practically anything" is not unequivocal, and is a correct
description of the current patent review climate.
 
> There may be cases of the sort you refer to, but it is not a general
> argument which can then be applied to the case of the RSA patent. You
> have repeatedly make the logical error of claiming that a specific
> proved a general, and then applying the claimed general to a different
> specific.
 
Vin alleged that RSA being granted a patent proffered compelling
evidence of the unique worth of the thing being patented.  It is
correct to apply general comments about the patent-granting climate to
this specific case.  For a better example of confusing generals and
specifics, you may re-read your own comments on "if someone opposes
me, someone must be funding them" above, incorrectly abstracting my
comments about Vin to the general population. :)
 
>>> 11. Security Dynamics is paying for those who oppose me.
 
>> I merely asked if Vin intended to bill them for the time he spent
>> writing his rants.  A rhetorical question.
 
> GIven the rest of your post, the inference was direct. If you did not
> intend to imply that, you should not have used that languaging.
 
Bzzzzzzzz. Wrong Answer.
 
And we will have to deduct additional points for abstracting again
from Vin to the general population vis a vis "Security Dynamics is
paying for those who opppose me."
 
The best you can get on this mid-term is now a C. :)
 
>>> 12. Such opposition is "a tirade".
 
>> Suggesting that I would have to retire my nym after criticizing the
>> RSA patent and taking several pages to say a paragraph of material
>> certainly qualifies as a tirade in my book, especially when combined
>> with a lot of irrelevent innuendo unrelated to the topic being
>> discussed.
 
> Since most of his post was factual, it was not a tirade.
 
Most of the factual material refuted nothing I was claiming, and
refuted things I wasn't claiming, such as Jevon's book containing a
complete description of PKC, as opposed to being the earliest known
work which contained something related to the topic.
 
Again, an attempt to impress people with the volume of the evidence,
rather than with its quality, which when combined with the occasional
snide remark, meets my definition of "tirade."
 
> You are trying to discredit the bulk of his post with a
> characterization of a small portion that doesn't apply to the whole,
> and may not even apply to the portion.
 
His post is discredited because it fails to address any of my points
about the RSA patent, and instead argues forcibly for a collection of
self-evident surrogate issues, carefully selected for their ability to
be easily confused with the real ones.
 
>>> 13. No corporations are buying products with GAK, key recovery, etc.
>>> (N.B.  in That is what "no corporate demand" means).
 
>> To an economist, perhaps.  It would be more accurate to say that
>> demand as a function of whether such features are included is a
>> pretty flat function.
 
> You didn't say that. You said "no corporate demand". I understand the
> word "no" because English is my mother tongue.
 
"Demand" in common English usage means that something is being
clamored for.  In Economic terms, it means half of the phrase "supply
and demand" which is something entirely different, said economic
demand existing for anything which is purchased.
 
> that the demand curve has a particular (flat) shape, did you make that
> up or did you rely on empirical evidence?
 
I believe that surveys by privacy groups long ago showed that GAK/Key
Escrow/Key Recovery was not being clamored for by corporate America,
although attempts were being made to incentivize it by the
intelligence and law enforcement communities.
 
> Your statement that "demand as a function of" X is a pretty flat
> function is also nonsense economics. Perhaps you meant to say that the
> _quantity demanded_ is invariant over whether these features are
> included or not.
 
I was using "demand" in its ordinary English usage.  You were using it
as an economic term, in an attempt to call the mere fact that GAK/Key
Escrow/Key Recovery-enabled software was purchased at all "demand" for
it.  Which, to use one of Clinton's favorite phrases, was "technically
accurate, although misleading."  :)
 
> Or perhaps you meant to say that the demand curve as a function of X
> was 'one-to-one onto' itself.
 
Uh, no.  That was definitely not what I was saying.  I don't think it
is what you are trying to say either, but thanks for using "1-1" and
"onto" in a sentence about functions.
 
> To test your hypothesis, you'd have to show that if two versions were
> offered simultaneously, one with and one without X, no corporate buyer
> would prefer the version with X.
 
That would kind of depend on how "X" was priced, would it not?  If you
give things away for free, people will probably take one in case they
need it someday, as it costs them nothing.
 
This does not equate to "demand," or "clamoring."
 
> I leave the reason that would the the dispositive experiment as an
> exercise. Hint: It's utility economics.
 
Hint:  It's not quite English.
 
>>> 14. Someone who opposes stronger escrow/GAK/key recovery than RSA is
>>> offering must be suspect.
 
>> Your point here eludes me.
 
> You said that he opposed escrow/GAK/key recovery except up to the
> point offered by RSA. That translates as he opposes such things if
> they were stronger than those offered by RSA. Nothing suspect about
> that--he simply agrees with the decision point RSA chose as to how
> strong to make such things.
 
That's one possible explanation.  To test your hypothesis, we should
see how well Vin's agreement tracks RSA's inclusion of additional
encrow/GAK/recovery features in the future.  He may have to change the
name of "The Privacy Guild" to something less impressive.
 
>>> I could go on ...
 
>> And you usually do, and on, and on, and on...
 
> And now you're diverging from the facts and logic of the matter to
> personal attack. It reveals the same flaw that invalidated your
> original post.
 
I'm sure you've been attacked before, by people a lot less nice than
myself. :)
 
>> I simply believe that patents on applied math are inappropriate.
>> Given that they are allowed, it seems silly to cite the fact that the
>> courts uphold them as evidence for anything, particularly claims that
>> they are new, novel, and non-obvious.
 
> Had you said that we could have had a rational discussion. Points in
> the discussion would have included:
 
> 1. Even patent law agrees with you; the RSA patent is a process
> patent and not a patent on applied math.
 
Hmmm.  Well, patents on pure math are not allowed, ergo, math must
be suitably transformed in order to be patented.
 
> 2. Patents purely on applied math, are, as far as anyone here knows
> not allowed. You may exponentiate to your heart's content as long as
> you don't practice the RSA algorithm as part of a crypto system.
 
There is a fundamental difference between telling me I cannot practice
modular exponentiation to communicate with people without licensing
it, and telling me I cannot make RDRAMs without licensing that.
 
I am unlikely to replicate the RDRAM design by accident.  I am quite
likely to derive a given bit of mathematics given the application for
it.
 
If RSA can be patented, why not something like Householder transforms,
or cluster analysis, or the quadratic formula?  Sounds like the
slippery slope to me.
 
> 3. The court didn't uphold a patent on applied math; it upheld a
> process patent on a crypto system that, among other things, uses
> applied math. So does almost any engineering design.
 
There is a fundamental difference between a physical machine whose
design required the use of mathematics, and an abstract mathematical
transformation, which may exist only in an instance of some computer
program performing a certain task.
 
> 4. The particular process patent was found to be new, novel, and
> non-obvious. There was ample opportunity for Cylink to try to refute
> that. They failed. End of story.
 
Again, returning to the top of our discussion, the existence of
"obvious prior art" for RSA in the common English sense meaning of
"obvious prior art" has little to do with whether patents are upheld
in the current regulatory climate in the United States.
 
It would be simple to test your hypothesis, by simply giving trapdoor
functions replete with useful identities to two people, and telling
they have to construct a common secret unknown to a third party
monitoring their communication.  I cannot imagine a technically
skilled person taking very long to make the transition from some
"one-way" functions, to a practical implementation of D-H, RSA, or
whatever.
 
That would be my definition of "obvious."
 
> Now we've discussed all the above substance before, and my purpose in
> reciting the four points isn't to re-open the topic, but to show that
> your definition of what the topic is is simply incorrect.
 
My posts.  My topic.  Your posts.  Your topic.  Works for me. :)
 
> Given that, I don't propose to discuss the above four points yet
> again. They aren't there to reopen the discussion, but to show that
> your statement of the issue is inaccurate.
 
My statement is point "I" at the beginning of this message.  Please
re-read it and tell me whether or not you agree with it.

-- 
Sponsor the DES Analytic Crack Project
http://www.cyberspace.org/~enoch/crakfaq.html




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 10:41:54 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: NYT (online only?) article on DigiCash Chapt. 11
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



...Wherein I get quoted in the NYT, for the first time in my life, using
"bummed out".

Oh, well. At least they spelled my name right... :-).

Cheers,
Bob Hettinga

--- begin forwarded text


Mime-Version: 1.0
X-Sender: rah@pop.sneaker.net
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 20:35:32 -0500
To: Digital Bearer Settlement List 
From: Robert Hettinga 
Subject: Electronic Cash for the Net Fails to Catch On
Sender: 
Precedence: Bulk
List-Subscribe: 
X-Web-Archive: http://www.philodox.com/dbs-archive/


--- begin forwarded text


Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 20:28:03 -0500
From: "Robert A. Hettinga" 
Reply-To: rah@philodox.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rah@shipwright.com
Subject: Electronic Cash for the Net Fails to Catch On

http://www.nytimes.com/library/tech/98/11/cyber/articles/28cash.html




November 28, 1998


Electronic Cash for the Net Fails to Catch On

By PETER WAYNER

 here are two conflicting epigrams that rule the computer industry. The
first is that the pioneer gets all of the gold, and the second is that the
pioneer gets all of the arrows in the back. Several recent high-profile
failures in the electronic payment industry suggest that efforts to develop
versions of electronic cash for the Internet are so far reaping more arrows
than riches.



Christine M. Thompson


The most recent signal came as
Digicash, a
closely watched electronic payment company based in Palo Alto, Calif.,
filed for bankruptcy protection. The company was known for a collection of
tools that made it possible for people to spend small amounts of money over
the Internet using what is known as a digital wallet, software that handles
transactions in a manner similar to cash. One advantage of the Digicash
system is that, unlike credit cards, it allowed consumers to make purchases
anonymously.

While several major banks expressed interest in the Digicash system and a
few actually began offering accounts, the company was unable to generate
enough mass interest among merchants or consumers. Consumers were reluctant
to use Digicash because there weren't many merchants who accepted it, and
merchants didn't sign up to participate because consumers weren't demanding
it as a payment option.

Other companies that have tried to develop digital cash systems haven't
fared much better. Last August, another pioneer, First Virtual, shut down
its system for processing electronic cash transactions and began to focus
on a new business, interactive messaging, according to a company
spokeswoman, Cindy Alvarez. Another company, CyberCash,
still offers a system called CyberCoin, but most of the company's revenue
comes from processing credit card transactions.

Industry observers suggest that one reason electronic payment systems
haven't taken off is that consumers have become more comfortable using
credit cards to make purchases online.

Bill Curry, a spokesman for Amazon.com,
said credit cards are used for "the overwhelming majority" of transactions
on the company's site. "I think the reason is that we do have an encrypted
secure server, and we guarantee the transaction. If there are unauthorized
charges on your account as a result of shopping at Amazon.com, we'll pay
the $50 that's not covered by your credit-card issuers."

Bill Trevor, director of customer service at CDNow, said
most of CDNow's customers enter their credit-card numbers on the site. "Our
experience is showing that in the month of October, roughly four fifths of
our customers felt secure enough to put their credit card in our online
form. Almost all of the rest are checks or money order. There are a couple
of percentage points for people who call us, fax us or e-mail their
credit-card number, but it's less than 3 percent."

Companies that process credit card transactions have found more success
than the wallet-based businesses.


CDNow allows customers to send a separate e-mail message with the credit
card number encrypted with PGP, a significantly higher-grade of encryption
than is normally used to protect most browser-based transactions.

Companies that process credit card transactions for e-commerce Web sites
have found more success than the wallet-based businesses, like Digicash.
Keith Miller is an executive vice president of Ibill, a
company that processes credit card transactions for Web merchants. "We
looked into that whole thing when we started a couple of years ago," he
said, referring to companies that were building separate software packages
for processing payments. "Back then, our biggest competitors were the
wallet companies. We went after the market saying, why do we need to
reinvent something when we have something that works and is simple, easy
and quick?"

In the end, Ibill chose to make it simple for people to buy something
online by typing a credit card number into a browser. The browser uses a
security method known as SSL (Secure Socket Layers) to protect the data.
This doesn't offer the same protection as the carefully designed wallets,
but has so far been acceptable to consumers. This approach has become so
popular that one of the wallet pioneers, Cybercash, has developed a similar
system and now derives more profits from simple SSL-based credit card
transactions than through the wallets the company continues to develop.

What remains to be seen is whether digital cash systems will ever find a
market.

Paul Kocher, an expert on cryptography who has analyzed many digital
payment mechanisms, said it would take the support of a major player for an
electronic cash system to be successful. "If someone like Visa or IBM threw
their weight behind a system and got a lot of backers, it might take off. I
don't see how a small company like Digicash could ever get a system
deployed and working."

Digicash's plans for the future are uncertain, in part because the company
must pay off past debts by holding what amounts to an auction of its
technology. But the fact that some companies are interested in Digicash's
patents indicates that there may still be hope for some sort of electronic
payment system. In particular, industry observers say that these systems'
ability to allow consumers to make purchases online anonymously may yet
prove valuable.



Related Articles
Got
a Dime? Citibank and Chase End Test of Electronic Cash
(November 11, 1998)

Code Br
eaker Cracks Smart Cards' Digital Safe
(June 22, 1998)

Scott Loftesness, the interim chief executive of Digicash, said the company
is exploring many different options and has already received one offer for
some of its patents. One of the patents provides an easy way for someone to
sign or authorize a document without reading it, a process that is often
called a "blind signature." This is the foundation for the anonymity
Digicash offers its customers and may also have a variety of other untapped
applications.

Robert Hettinga, a digital cash consultant and one of the organizers of the
Financial Cryptography conference held annually in Anguilla, said, "I would
like to try to get a syndicate together to buy the [blind signature]
patent. We would hold it and license it in a way that everyone could use
it. I would be really bummed out if they took that patent and locked it
away for another eight years."

Others are more cynical about the possibility that any micropayment model
will ever become dominant. William Powar, a former Visa executive who is
now a venture capitalist in Silicon Valley, said one problem with digital
wallet systems is that they are designed for small one-time purchases.
"There's no market where pay per use is significant," he said. "Look at the
cable model."

Powar points out that while newspapers, magazines and cable operators offer
one-time consumption options through newsstands or special cable
subscriptions, the bulk of their revenue comes from subscriptions and
advertising. This suggests to him that micropayment systems won't be a
crucial part of the future of the Internet, which would diminish the need
for digital cash systems.

In the near future, the electronic digital transaction industry is focusing
on another goal: processing bills for utilities, credit card companies,
telephone companies and others who normally bill customers via postal mail.
Several new ventures, like Ibill, as well as established companies like
Netscape Communications Corp., are working on technologies to allow
consumers to pay
their bills online.

Netscape's system, called BillerXpert, will let consumers pay bills over
the Web using, among other options, the payment mechanism designed by
CyberCash. The bill presentment industry hopes to save money on postage
while also providing additional services, like personalized content.


Related Sites
These sites are not part of The New York Times on the Web, and The Times
has no control over their content or availability.

Digicash

CyberCash

Amazon.com

CDNow

Ibill

Netscape Communications Corp.


Peter Wayner at pwayner@nytimes.com welcomes
your comments and suggestions.





--- end forwarded text

-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Austin Hill" 
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 10:41:51 +0800
To: 
Subject: Freedom & AnonymousIP network
Message-ID: <000b01be1cd0$6ce561e0$1901a8c0@austin.zks.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



This may be of interest to members of this list or people that you may all
know.   If you have any questions, or know of ISPs who support privacy on
the Internet, please forward this to their attention.

Thanks.


-Austin

---------------------------------------------------------------
Freedom Partnership Program: Value-Added Service For ISPs

Zero-Knowledge Systems is currently in seeking ISPs to join as "Founding
Members" in the Freedom Network. Freedom is revolutionary software that
provides the first complete privacy solution to Internet users, including
email, web-browsing, chat, telnet and Usenet. By allowing users to create
and manage multiple authenticated identities and using full-strength
cryptography, Internet users can also block SPAM and manage their person
information. See http://www.zks.net for full details.

Being a member of the Freedom Network will allow an ISP to differentiate
itself from the competition while fighting for on-line privacy. The Freedom
Partnership Program has been designed to be revenue generating and cost
reducing for ISPs.

Freedom software is provided free of charge to all ISPs. Internal
beta-testing of the Freedom network will begin in mid-December, 1998 and the
"Founding Members" of the Freedom Network should be prepared to begin
working with our technical staff at that time. Beta testing should last 4-8
weeks. The Freedom server software runs on a Linux or Solaris operating
system and needs to run on a
dedicated machine. Server participants should be able to contribute a T-1
during the beta testing period. Members will also be entitled to proceeds
from the revenue sharing program (after the beta testing period). The
revenue sharing program is designed to provide ISPs with 110% - 130% of
bandwidth costs.

Participation has its advantages. Founding Member ISPs will receive
"Preferred Member" status on our web-site and software. When users of the
Freedom client do a search for an ISP by telephone area code, Founding
Members will be the
recommended ISP in a given geographical area. All Founding Members will be
listed in relevant press releases made by Zero-Knowledge Systems. Founding
Members will also be guaranteed to earn 10% on all click-thru sales
(web-link program) for the next two years. Participating ISPs will also get
"Prominent Placement" - have their company name/logo displayed on a
high-traffic area of our web-site. Distinctive buttons and banners will be
given to all founding members receive  to put on their web-site.

Initially, the Freedom Network will be comprised of 15 Founding Member ISPs
which will be located around the world. We plan to have an ISP in each of
the following areas: Canada(3) - east coast, central, west coast;
U.S.A.(7) - northeast, northwest, southeast, southwest, west coast, silicon
valley, Midwest; United Kingdom(1); Holland(1); Germany(1); Australia(1);
and, the Caribbean(1).

If you are interested in becoming a "Founding Member" or simply joining the
Freedom Network or know of an ISP that would be interested, please contact
Greg Adelstein, Director of Business Development, Zero-Knowledge Systems,
greg@zks.net or 514-286-2636.
--------------------------------------------------------


_________________________________________________________________________
Austin Hill                                   Zero-Knowledge Systems Inc.
President                                                Montreal, Quebec
Phone: 514.286.2636 Ext. 226                            Fax: 514.286.2755
E-mail: austin@zks.net                                 http://www.zks.net

             Zero Knowledge Systems Inc. - Nothing Personal

PGP Fingerprints
2.6.3i = 3F 42 A2 0D AF 78 20 ED  A2 BB AD BE 8B 40 5E 64
5.5.3i = 77 1E 62 21 B3 F0 EB C0  AA 6C 65 30 56 CA BA C4 94 26 EC 00
keys available at
http://www.nai.com/products/security/public_keys/pub_key_default.asp
_________________________________________________________________________




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Eric Cordian 
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 12:15:13 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Sternlight on Cypherpunks
Message-ID: <199812010354.VAA19426@wire.insync.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Sternlight has denied us!

David Sternlight  writes:

> I am not on the Cypherpunks list. Given the tone of some posters I
> don't' see that as a useful list. 

> I never participated in that list. It was suggested to me by a very
> senior member of the list that all the wrangling typical of that list
> meant it wasn't worth the time, and I took his advice. 


              I never had sex with that woman.
                                     -Bill Clinton

              I never participated in that list.
                                     -David Sternlight

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't David join the list some time ago, 
and depart with a giant PLONK when someone called him a "statist"?

-- 
Eric Michael Cordian 0+
O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division
"Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: brutal@brutalsex.com
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 23:49:15 +0800
To: 
Subject: Attract Opposite SEX Like Never Before!
Message-ID: <199901291506.AAA17938@mail.jumbo.or.jp>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



WELCOME TO THE BRUTAL SEX SITE

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Check out the Huge Archive of XXX Hardcore Photos and View from 
an INCREDIBLE amount XXX Adult Films with SOUND!!!

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..

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CLICK HERE

Go To http://www.BrutalSEX.com











18+ Only.  Reply with remove in subject to be removed.
mediaweb ann arbor mi 48103 (734)669-8570




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: sender04@mail.usa.com
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 14:04:44 +0800
To: 
Subject: ADV:Valentine's for the Very Special!
Message-ID: <199902090536.NAA19336@db.>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



For Your Valentine!!


Scrumptious, dried fruit and nut packs artistically arranged in a 
variety of designer boxes normally featured at Neiman Marcus, 
Saks Fifth Avenue, Harrods of London and other prestigious 
stores. Now available DIRECT from the source:  Torn Ranch of 
California, quietly supplying exquisite fruit and nut packs for 
40 years to prestige outlets. 

Send a Valentine gift that is a touch above the ordinary.  Fancy 
and extra-fancy grade, moist fruits.  Chocolate dipped Australian 
apricots in designer arrangements.  Jumbo nuts and fresh-baked 
mini-biscotti.  Make an endearing impression for $10 or $20.  
Check out our selections and place an order this week to surprise 
your Valentine! 


http://204.238.155.37/ca2/tornranch


Reply with remove to be removed
MediaWeb AnnArbor MI 7346698570




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: foreclosure-world@foreclosure-world.cc
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 01:53:14 -0800 (PST)
To: chongo@toad.com
Subject: Accept Credit Cards
Message-ID: <19981109191303.TAB09534@foreclosure-world.cc>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


ACCEPT CREDIT CARDS!!
PRE-APPROVED APPLICATION
Good Credit/Bad Credit/No Credit

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* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
If you have received this message in error, please 
accept our apology as a responsible e-mailer, and 
reply with the word REMOVE in the subject line.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED SUN NOV 1 
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 01:07:29 -0800 (PST)
To: (OVER 100 FREE PICS DAILY!)
Subject: 100S OF FREE PICS'N'LINKS EVERY DAY!
Message-ID: <19981101081000.7984.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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+ 5 SUPER SEXY STORIES
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+ BONUS PIC 5 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/21230.htm
+ MUCH, MUCH MORE!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----

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in for a real treat.  It's faster than  ever before and now,
as a subscriber,  you get 35 FREE new pics  every day,  plus
over 100 more at carefully selected FREE sites we link to.

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: newscaster@hampton.net
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 06:31:15 -0800 (PST)
To: <199610012026.naa28151@toad.com>
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199811021431.GAA20705@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


11/02/98


Y2K  Solution!
8  Pine  Circle  Dr., Silicon  Valley, Calif. USA


OTC  Company  "TCFG"  21 st. Century  Frontier  Group  has
through  several  members  of  their  administrative  research
department  leaked  vital  information  about  their  companies  
efforts.

Everyone  was  tight  lipped  and  interviews  were  refused,
and  through  un-named  sources  we  have  learned  that  the  
technology  and  software  solution  are  in  the  process  of  
being  patented!

In over  1640  trials, using  various  data  systems  the  use  
of  the  new  technology  and  software  solved  the  Y2K
problem  100%  of  the  time. 

This  small  publicly  traded  company  "TCFG"  which  is  just
3  years  old  is  through  various  sources  now  negotiating
with  the  "Big  Boys"!

"TCFG"  the  letters  to  look  for...

























 
 
 
 
 
 
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED MON NOV 2 
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 01:14:06 -0800 (PST)
To: (OVER 100 FREE PICS DAILY!)
Subject: 100S OF FREE PICS'N'LINKS EVERY DAY!
Message-ID: <19981102081000.22994.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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+ BONUS PIC 2 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/22717.htm
+ BONUS PIC 3 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/14745.htm
+ BONUS PIC 4 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/13628.htm
+ BONUS PIC 5 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/17492.htm
+ MUCH, MUCH MORE!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----

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in for a real treat.  It's faster than  ever before and now,
as a subscriber,  you get 35 FREE new pics  every day,  plus
over 100 more at carefully selected FREE sites we link to.

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bettyrubble@3253137429
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 08:37:24 -0800 (PST)
To: fireball@3253137429
Subject: Attract Women &/or Men (and keep them)!
Message-ID: <199811021637.IAA21504@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


BOOST YOUR SEX APPEAL AND CHANGE YOUR SOCIAL AND SEX LIFE FOREVER. 

SCIENCE AND NATURE'S SEXUAL SECRET WEAPON! 

Scientists have isolated the natural Human male/female Pheromone attractants 
and they are NOW available to YOU, legally, in the US. 

ATTRACT THE OPPOSITE SEX LIKE NEVER BEFORE ! 
IT'S GUARANTEED, or you pay nothing! 


PHEROMONES in the News! 

>From the NY Times to the LA Times. USA Today, The Wall Street Journal, Psychology Today, 20/20, Hard Copy, Single Living, Medical Tribune, Philadelphia Inquirer, Dateline, Discovery, Hustler, Playboy, Rocky Mountain News, McCalls, Penthouse, Cosmopolitan, BBC-TV, Colordao Telegraph, GQ, Time, Redbook, Fortune Magazine, and more.  Radio and Television Stations worldwide.  All have reported the scientific findings amidst excitement, controversy, commotion and thrill about pheromones and their potential use. 


The Press Has Said it Better Than We Can. 

"PUT IT TO THE TEST" MERIDIAN TV: 
Sold extensively in the UK, phermomones were tested live on television in the UK, when the unknowing female presenter was VERY ATTRACTED to one of the twin guys,  he was wearing "Androstenone Pheromone"  but she did not know this, and did not know why she was attracted to him ! 

US NEWS and WORLD REPORTS 
"The key to starting a love affair might be right under your nose. Scientists have just announced the discovery of a virtual sixth sense, a tiny organ in the nasal cavity that responds to chemicals known as pheromones. These natural substances are thought to play a role in basic human emotions such as fear, hunger--and love." 
FORTUNE MAGAZINE:  
"An imaginative University of Utah anatomist named David L. Berliner was working with substances that occur in human skin. When he left some of the extracts in open vials around the lab, he noticed a sudden, puzzling rise in camaraderie among a previously acrimonious group of researchers working with him. When he changed the extracts a 
few months later, the group resumed its contentious ways. Berliner froze and saved the extracts. 
Nearly 30 years later, ...  thanks to a method of containing drugs and cosmetics inside tiny, spongelike polymer spheres, he returned to the subject. In 1989 he ... has isolated the suspected good-fellowship pheromones -- behavior-controlling substances similar to those already known to stimulate sexual activity in animals. (One whiff of a pheromone called aphrodisin from a female hamster and a male is ready to mate.) 

On March 3, 1998 FOX Affiliate, WSVN in Miami did a story on Pheromones, stating, "If you're looking for love, we've got a potion for passion." ...  "Tonight, a secret weapon to attract the opposite sex.  Researchers developing their own passion potion. Ever been attracted to someone but weren't really sure why? .... More and more research is pointing to chemicals these days.... undetectable chemicals... pheromones ... a clear odorless liquid" 

Customers Say: 

"... works as advertised, best product of its' kind" 

I've always had trouble meeting women-then I tried your product.  Now girls come up to me and introduce themselves all the time! I'd like to know if your product is available in a larger quantity so I can make sure I'm never without it! 
-Dave J 

I've been driving a tractor trailer for about 6 years and I'm on the road all the time. It's been impossible to meet women until I tried pheromones.  Now every truck stop I pull into I meet new women, and many of them ask me out. Thanks! 
-Tom on the Road Again, 

WHAT ARE PHEROMONES? 

Pheromones are a naturally occurring chemical compound found in all insects, all animals, and in humans. When pheromones are secreted they dictate sexual behavior and attract the opposite sex.  Be careful. Animal pheromones do NOT attract humans. 

Have you ever wondered why people who are not particularly attractive seem to attract dates like flies to honey?  They seem to have some "chemical attraction" about themselves. Some call it animal magnetism. It may be pheromones.  Now you can have that "chemical attraction" whenever you want. 

PHEROMONES - THE FACTS 

       Pheromones are natural chemicals which play an important role in sexual communication. 

       Animals, including humans release chemicals in tears, saliva and perspiration. These chemicals send signals relating to mood and health to the subconscious awareness.  One theory is that the dominant male will exude more of these chemical attractants than a submissive or weaker male.  This chemical attracts more females to him.  It is similar for woman attracting men. This natural attractant can also contribute to more 
intense excitement during love making (sexual foreplay and sexual intercourse). Pheromones may also contribute to the dating phrase, "chemical attraction" that we all talk about.  WSVN-TV (March 3, 1998) "Ever been attracted to someone but weren't really sure why? .... More and more research is pointing to chemicals these days.... undetectable chemicals... pheromones ... a clear odorless liquid" 


MORE RESEARCH AND REFERENCES: 
Following is some research done on products made by our manufacturer, and bottled under a different name.  It contains the same pheromone type and content as Hi-Octane
http://www.angelfire.com/fl/beaches69/index.html 



ABOUT OUR PRODUCT: 

Hi-Octane (tm) 

.. is made up of PHEROMONES suspended in witch hazel.. This product is designed to be added to your favorite cologne or perfume. 

.. contains both male and female PHEROMONES. Nature never intended for 
just one PHEROMONE to be present; but two, male and female. Our manufacturering process uses both PHEROMONES in ALL our products. This will not attract same sex; 
but works as nature intended, attracting the opposite sex. 

.. comes in 1/8 oz. Bottle with a small funnel so you can easily pour it into 
your cologne or perfume. One 1/8 oz. bottle is enough to mix with 4 to 8 oz of 
your favorite perfume product.  

Similar pheromone products have been sold for up to $100 elsewhere. We sell the the strongest product on the market today for only $39.95. 

BUY two -- get one free. 

The world's largest manufacturer of Pheromones, MC Marble, now manufactures Hi-Octane (tm), a pheromone prodcut that is the "Most Powerful sexual attractant on the Market today." 

HI_OCTANE is made with two powerful synthesized human 
pheromones, Alpha-Androstenol and Alpha-Androstenone. 

HI-OCTANE  will attract the opposite sex of the wearer.  McCall's magazine writes 
"...pheromones can improve one's love life, pheromones send out subconscious 
scent signals to the opposite sex that naturally trigger romantic feelings." 

HI-OCTANE  according to the manufacturer, may also intensify sex, by increasing sexual pleasure and endurance of both partners, and creating a higher sexual ecstasy. Individual results may vary.   One private study claims that pheromones don't work for everyone. 75% of those trying it had success.  Isn't it worth trying? 

HOW TO ORDER Hi OctaneTM 

Hi OctaneTM is available from Euphoria Products. 

A 1/8 oz. bottle with a convenient funnel (to be added to your favorite perfume) is 
$39.95. Mix 1/4 of the bottle with every 2 oz of your favorite product. One 1/8 oz. bottle is enough to mix with 4 to 8 oz of your favorite product. 

                         *** 

  For a limited time, when you order two bottles (up to a two month's supply) of Hi Octane(tm), you'll get a third bottle ABSOLUTELY FREE. 

                         *** 

Please add $3.00 shipping and handling per order. (regardless of how many bottles you order, you pay only $3.00 total!) 

UPS Second Day Air Delivery is available for an additional $9.00 per order.  Overnight, add $15.00 per order. 

Florida residents, please add applicable sales tax. 

For orders from outside of the US only ground shipping is available for $15. 

Our manufacturing facility offers the STRONGEST pheromones on the market today. Our manufacturing facility assures you that Hi-Octane will be always contain the male and female pheromones, the way nature intended it, to best attract the opposite sex for you. It is and will always be manufactured with the finest ingredients to assure your satisfaction. 



                        SATISFACTION GUARANTEED 

Try Hi OctaneTM risk-free. Your satisfaction is unconditionally guaranteed. If you do not find you are meeting and dating and scoring with more people of the opposite sex after using High OctaneTM for 30 days, simply return the unused portion of your order at any time for a full refund--no questions asked. 



Call 520-453-0303 Extension 202,  24 hours/day, 7 days/week for credit card orders. Have your MasterCard, Visa, American Express, and Discover Card  ready and say, " I would like to order ___ bottles of High Octane." 

If you would like to order by mail, you can send in a check or money order, or credit card information,  along with your name and street address (no PO Boxes please) and a day time phone number to: 

                         Euphoria Products Dept. 202 
                    1859 No Pine Island Rd. Suite #133
                            Plantation, FL 33322 






































The Mailing List that you are being mailed from was filtered against
a Global Filter List. If you would like not to recieve any other mailings of this type please send an email to: letusknow@start.com.au with "filter me" in the subject line. Please do not send mutiple submissions as this will slow down the system, normally it will take 1 week. If you send too many or mailbomb this system not only will your name not be filtered for future mailings but you will cause others not to be filtered either as you might overload the system. Mailbombings will be tracked back to the offender and legal action will be taken.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: nations@freeyellow.com
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 10:42:28 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199811021842.KAA22458@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


                            11/02/98


Y2K  Solution!
8  Pine  Circle  Dr., Silicon  Valley, Calif. USA


OTC  Company  "TCFG"  21 st. Century  Frontier  Group  has
through  several  members  of  their  administrative  research
department  leaked  vital  information  about  their  companies  
efforts.

Everyone  was  tight  lipped  and  interviews  were  refused,
and  through  un-named  sources  we  have  learned  that  the  
technology  and  software  solution  are  in  the  process  of  
being  patented!

In over  1640  trials, using  various  data  systems  the  use  
of  the  new  technology  and  software  solved  the  Y2K
problem  100%  of  the  time. 

This  small  publicly  traded  company  "TCFG"  which  is  just
3  years  old  is  through  various  sources  now  negotiating
with  the  "Big  Boys"!

"TCFG"  the  letters  to  look  for.....

























 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED TUE NOV 3 
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 01:20:23 -0800 (PST)
To: (OVER 100 FREE PICS DAILY!)
Subject: 100S OF FREE PICS'N'LINKS EVERY DAY!
Message-ID: <19981103081000.20022.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


+ 30 SUPERB, HI-RES, HOT PHOTOS
+ 5 SUPER SEXY STORIES
+ BOOBLAND
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+ XXX WONDERLAND
+ SATURN SEX SITE
+ X-QUALITY BEAUTIFUL NUDE MODELS
+ MASTURB8
+ CUM CATCHERS
+ XXX FREE PUSSY
+ PLAY SLUTS
+ PUSSY PUSSY
+ BONUS PIC 1 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/19550.htm
+ BONUS PIC 2 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/1183.htm
+ BONUS PIC 3 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/28881.htm
+ BONUS PIC 4 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/28151.htm
+ BONUS PIC 5 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/13754.htm
+ MUCH, MUCH MORE!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----

If you haven't visited STUFFED in the last few days,  you're
in for a real treat.  It's faster than  ever before and now,
as a subscriber,  you get 35 FREE new pics  every day,  plus
over 100 more at carefully selected FREE sites we link to.

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: explorer@netcom.com
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 11:25:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199811031924.LAA01821@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


                             11/03/98

INTERNET NEWS/Y2K (YEAR 2000 SOLUTION)

Most  of  the  information  from  the  silicon  valley is 
obtained  from  the  local  pubs/bars. Un-named  sources 
discussing  the  Y2K  problem  at  the  local  brew  revealed, 
that  2  of  the  big  valley  software  manufacturers  are  
in  a  bidding  war  for  software  technology  created  by  
a  small publicly  traded  company  OTC-BB  symbol:"TCFG" that  
is  in  the  process  of  obtaining  a  patent.


This  3  year  old  emerging  growth  company  has  tested  
and  out  performed  the  "Big  Boys"! Several  rogue  
ex-employees  of  the  "giants" joined  this  company  and  
claims  abound  about  their  success.


If  truth  is  stronger  than  fiction  then  "TCFG"  is
going  to  play  with  the  big  boys. We  all  know  the  
Y2K  problem  and  what  the  real  solution  would  mean  
to  all  of  us  $$!


How  much  will  they  pay  "TCFG"?
Back  to  the  pub  friday  evening  for  more  info...
 
 
 
 
 
 
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: explorer@netcom.com
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 05:22:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199811041321.FAA05928@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


11/04/98


INTERNET  NEWS
8  Pine  Circle  Dr. Silicon  Valley,Ca. USA


INTERNET NEWS/Y2K (YEAR 2000 SOLUTION)

Most  of  the  information  from  the  silicon  valley is 
obtained  from  the  local  pubs/bars. Un-named  sources 
discussing  the  Y2K  problem  at  the  local  brew  revealed, 
that  2  of  the  big  valley  software  manufacturers  are  
in  a  bidding  war  for  software  technology  created  by  
a  small publicly  traded  company  OTC-BB  symbol:"TCFG" that  
is  in  the  process  of  obtaining  a  patent.


This  3  year  old  emerging  growth  company  has  tested  
and  out  performed  the  "Big  Boys" with  a  system  
industry  experts  consider  to  be  a  technological  
breakthrough! Several  rogue  ex-employees  of  the  "giants" 
joined  this  company  and  claims  abound  about  their  
success.


If  truth  is  stronger  than  fiction  then  "TCFG"  is
going  to  play  with  the  big  boys. We  all  know  the  
Y2K  problem  and  what  the  real  solution  would  mean  
to  all  of  us  $$!


How  much  will  they  pay  "TCFG"?
Back  to  the  pub  friday  evening  for  more  info...
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED WED NOV 4 
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 01:15:59 -0800 (PST)
To: (OVER 100 FREE PICS DAILY!)
Subject: 100S OF FREE PICS'N'LINKS EVERY DAY!
Message-ID: <19981104081000.23189.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


+ 30 SUPERB, HI-RES, HOT PHOTOS
+ 5 SUPER SEXY STORIES
+ BIG BEAR AMAZING PICS
+ SWEBABES
+ YVONNE'S ASIAN GIRLS
+ HOTT SHOTTS
+ MISGUIDED
+ CHEERLEADER SQUAD
+ THE BRASS ASS
+ CUM CATCHERS
+ XXX VAGINAS
+ PORNCLIPS
+ BONUS PIC 1 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/14164.htm
+ BONUS PIC 2 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/12417.htm
+ BONUS PIC 3 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/10249.htm
+ BONUS PIC 4 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/9906.htm
+ BONUS PIC 5 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/10016.htm
+ MUCH, MUCH MORE!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----

If you haven't visited STUFFED in the last few days,  you're
in for a real treat.  It's faster than  ever before and now,
as a subscriber,  you get 35 FREE new pics  every day,  plus
over 100 more at carefully selected FREE sites we link to.

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: stocknews11_5_98iil@worldnet.att.net
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 15:31:10 -0800 (PST)
To: smartinvestor98i@newsletterb.com
Subject: RE: URGENT BUY ALERT!!
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Company:  Mark I Industries
Symbol:   M K I I   (mkii)
Price:    1/4  ($.25/share)

M K I I  has announced an affiliation with one of 
their subsidiaries and AT&T.  Management projects
a $100 million revenue goal at their current rate
of growth with "the company's stock to trade in
the $4 range".

M K I I is rated an immediate and "STRONG BUY".
For more information on  M K I I go to:
http://quote.yahoo.com











From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: solution@hampton.net
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 08:18:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199811051617.IAA13208@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


11/05/98


INTERNET  NEWS
8  Pine  Circle  Dr. Silicon  Valley,Ca. USA


INTERNET NEWS/Y2K (YEAR 2000 SOLUTION)

Most  of  the  information  from  the  silicon  valley is 
obtained  from  the  local  pubs/bars. Un-named  sources 
discussing  the  Y2K  problem  at  the  local  brew  revealed, 
that  2  of  the  big  valley  software  manufacturers  are  
in  a  bidding  war  for  software  technology  created  by  
a  small publicly  traded  company  OTC-BB  symbol:"TCFG" that  
is  in  the  process  of  obtaining  a  patent.


This  3  year  old  emerging  growth  company  has  tested  
and  out  performed  the  "Big  Boys" with  a  system  
industry  experts  consider  to  be  a  technological  
breakthrough! Several  rogue  ex-employees  of  the  "giants" 
joined  this  company  and  claims  abound  about  their  
success.


If  truth  is  stronger  than  fiction  then  "TCFG"  is
going  to  play  with  the  big  boys. We  all  know  the  
Y2K  problem  and  what  the  real  solution  would  mean  
to  all  of  us  $$!


How  much  will  they  pay  "TCFG"?
Back  to  the  pub  friday  evening  for  more  info...
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED THU NOV 5 
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 01:20:59 -0800 (PST)
To: (OVER 100 FREE PICS DAILY!)
Subject: 100S OF FREE PICS'N'LINKS EVERY DAY!
Message-ID: <19981105081000.20638.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


+ 30 SUPERB, HI-RES, HOT PHOTOS
+ 5 SUPER SEXY STORIES
+ PRIVATE COLLECTION
+ HOT ROD
+ A1 HARDCORE
+ SILICON SLUT
+ RETRO XXX
+ NATURAL BODIES
+ A W PHOTOGRAPHY
+ ONLY EROTICA
+ DEBBIE'S SEX SITE
+ NUDE PICS
+ BONUS PIC 1 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/8778.htm
+ BONUS PIC 2 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/23651.htm
+ BONUS PIC 3 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/24385.htm
+ BONUS PIC 4 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/24429.htm
+ BONUS PIC 5 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/6277.htm
+ MUCH, MUCH MORE!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----

If you haven't visited STUFFED in the last few days,  you're
in for a real treat.  It's faster than  ever before and now,
as a subscriber,  you get 35 FREE new pics  every day,  plus
over 100 more at carefully selected FREE sites we link to.

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 08:34:55 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Project 415
Message-ID: <199811051634.LAA27413@camel8.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Paul Dore, a British engineer involved in SETI research
who had picked up signals from a secret NSA/GCHQ 
intelligence satellite and believed them to be from outer 
space, was asked by the agencies on November 2 to 
cease and desist publishing his findings and to cancel a 
planned press conference to tell his latest news, or face
punishment under the Official Secrets Act. The agencies 
said the satellite was part of "Project 415." 

   http://jya.com/project415.htm

This was noted here a few days ago, but that was before
Paul's description of the agencies' visit to his home
was pulled from its original URL, along with related files
which described his findings as well as confirmations by 
other researchers:

   http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hall/7193/cancelled.html

A Project 415 (maybe the same) was first reported by Duncan 
Campbell in a 1988 article in The New Statesman, in which he
also gave the first public description of ECHELON:

   http://jya.com/echelon-dc.htm

It may not be related to Paul Dore's situation but Duncan's
article has had some 9,000 downloads in the last 24 hours.
Anyone seen a news report on the topic?

Thanks to KF for the lead.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: listmaster@extensis.com
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 02:05:28 -0800 (PST)
To: undisclosed-recipients:;
Subject: Announcing Extensis Preflight Pro 2.1
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


The Award-Winning, Preflighting Tool from Extensis Just Got
Better. http://www.extensis.com/products/PreflightPro

* New! Now inspect your Acrobat(r) PDF Files!
* Inspect, correct and collect print jobs for perfect prepress delivery.
* Advanced features include customizable inspection profiles, PDF
creation, and AppleScript Automation.
* FREE!  5 free copies of Collect Pro with each copy of Preflight Pro!

Extensis Preflight Pro 2.1 answers all of your Preflight questions. 
Designed to save prepress professionals time and money, Preflight Pro
inspects your documents and corrects problems to ensure they are
error-free prior to printing.  

With an interface that mimics the traditional prepress workflow,
Preflight Pro provides you with a familiar environment to review files
prior to printing. Further, Preflight Pro now supports documents in all
the major graphics applications including Adobe PageMaker, Illustrator,
Photoshop, Acrobat, QuarkXPress, Macromedia FreeHand EPS, and Multi-Ad
Creator2.

What's New in Preflight Pro 2.1?  Now you can inspect Acrobat PDF files,
along with files from all the other major graphics applications.
Preflight Pro 2.1 now examines PDF files using more than 40 different
profile items, including document security settings, font subsetting and
embedding, downsampling rates and compression types.

Better yet, Preflight Pro also includes 5 free copies of Collect Pro
2.1. Give Collect Pro to any creative professional you work with to help
them correctly collect a job for hand-off to the prepress house. 
Collect Pro eliminates the problems of missing files (e.g.: fonts and
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Extensis Preflight Pro 2.1 will dramatically streamline your preflight
workflow, saving you time, headaches and money. 

For more information, to order, or to download a FREE, 30-day demo of
Extensis Preflight Pro, please visit: 
http://www.extensis.com/products/PreflightPro
Or call your Extensis Preflight Specialist at (800) 796-9798 x.168  or
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Already own Preflight Pro 2.0? 
NO PROBLEM!  Visit http://www.extensis.com/products/PreflightPro and
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Macromedia FreeHand 5.5 and later, and Multi-Ad Creator2 version 1.0.

PS. We have made every effort to ensure this message is being sent only
to people who have expressed interest in Extensis products.  If we have
sent this to you in error, please accept our apologies and reply with
remove in the subject line for automatic exclusion from future
communications.  If you know someone who would like to be on our mailing
list have them send an email to listmaster@extensis.com with ADD in the
subject line and their email address in the body.

P.P.S. This message is intended for customers in North America.  If you
are located outside of North America and have received this message,
please visit www.extensis.com/purchase/ to find the nearest local
distributor in your country.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Rusik" 
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 10:33:30 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: internet
Message-ID: <002701be08ea$ce6d6d80$2ba2a6c3@------>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Hi.
i need to crack my internet provider. he use 
windows 95 operation system.
can you help me??? have you any crackers?? or 
you know where i can find them or any literature that can help 
me???
 
BYE
with my best wishes
Rusik


From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED FRI NOV 6 
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 08:27:08 -0800 (PST)
To: (OVER 100 FREE PICS DAILY!)
Subject: 100S OF FREE PICS'N'LINKS EVERY DAY!
Message-ID: <19981106081000.9419.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


+ 30 SUPERB, HI-RES, HOT PHOTOS
+ 5 SUPER SEXY STORIES
+ A SEXY GIRL
+ TRAMPVILLE
+ HOT BABES
+ SEXY BLACK BABES
+ TABBY'S 007 PUSSY
+ PANTIES & LACE
+ ANAL DESIRES
+ VERY WET FETISH SITE
+ SEX GALLERY
+ LADY PASSION'S EROTIC HAVEN
+ BONUS PIC 1 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/3392.htm
+ BONUS PIC 2 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/2117.htm
+ BONUS PIC 3 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/5753.htm
+ BONUS PIC 4 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/6184.htm
+ BONUS PIC 5 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/2539.htm
+ MUCH, MUCH MORE!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----

If you haven't visited STUFFED in the last few days,  you're
in for a real treat.  It's faster than  ever before and now,
as a subscriber,  you get 35 FREE new pics  every day,  plus
over 100 more at carefully selected FREE sites we link to.

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: informer@earthlink.net
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 14:42:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199811062242.OAA04144@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


11/06/98

INTERNET  NEWS:BUSINESS  WIRE 2:36pm EST

Re:21st  Century  Frontier  Group, Inc. Nasdaq OTC:"TCFG"

TCFG  strikes  $150mm  deal  with  Sumitomo  Bank, Japans'
2nd  largest  bank  for  construction  of  6  hotels  and
casinos, the  first  of  which  to  be  built  in  San  Juan,
Puerto  Rico!
 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: privateplacement@royal.net
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 00:36:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: securities - PRIVATE PLACEMENT WSG TECH, INC.
Message-ID: <199811070810.CAA14003@mail.naviomar.com.mx>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Opportunities in manufacturing and marketing patented products. This
announcement is neither an offer to sell nor a solicitation of an offer to
buy these securities.  Sales will be made only by a final Offering
Memorandum and only in states where these securities may be offered in
compliance with the securities laws of such states.  The final
Offering Memorandum will NOT be available to residents of the states of
Hawaii, Washington, or Wisconsin.  PRIVATE PLACEMENT MEMORANDUM REGULATION
- RULE 504 UNDER THE SECURITIES ACT OF 1933.  500,000 Shares of
Common class non-voting stock.  (Par Value $.001 Per Share) $2.00 Per
Share with a 5,000 Share Minimum of WSG Tech, Inc.  WSG Tech, Inc.
(Company), a Nevada corporation was incorporated in Nevada in August
1998.  The Company owns the manufacturing and distribution rights, or
has the Options to the rights of several commercially viable patented
products, and is negotiating for others.  The firm also owns the option to
purchase an established manufacturing firm with over twenty (20) years of
continuous profitable performance.  The completion of this purchase
will give WSG Tech, Inc. complete control over the manufacturing, sales,
distribution and fulfillment of its own products.  It will also give
the Company a core business of manufacturing for other clients as well as
an experienced production and sales staff.  The Company has recently
concluded an Agreement with an International marketing firm, and is
negotiating an agreement for the manufacture and distribution of its
products in Europe and South America.  The Company's corporate mailing
address is P.O. Box 541732 Lake Worth, Florida 33454 USA  The company is
offering to the public an invitation to participate in the funding of the
company.  For a copy of the Offering Memorandum, you may contact the
Company's investment consultant, e-mail us at privateopportunity@bigfoot.com
Be sure to put "Send Me A Copy" in the Subject Line and include your name
and address.








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: info@hot-stock.com
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 05:27:16 -0800 (PST)
To: user@the.internet
Subject: ADV: Hot-Stock Discovers Emerging Entertainment Company
Message-ID: <199811071811.NAA16377@mars.cyber-website.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


To be removed from our mailing list, simply reply with "Remove" in the subject line.

J.P. Morgan, the world famous banker at the American Bankers Convention in 
1903 was asked what was the secret of his success.  He replied "Opportunity
passed me every single second of my life, but I was perceptive enough to
take advantage of these opportunities."  The time is always now!

Companies providing live streaming video content such as Broadcast.Com
have had valuations as high as one billion dollars.  Alternative 
Entertainment is a live streaming video content provider for Adult related
Internet sites.  Adult related sites on the Internet are not only 
profitable but represent the largest segment of E-Commerce and generate 
1.2 billion in annual revenues.

Visit http://www.hot-stock.com for full details.

Alternative Entertainment (OTC BB : BOYS)
Shares Outstanding 3,013,790 
Shares Public Float 980,000 
Number Shareholders 790
Approved by NASD for Trading October 7, 1998

Visit http://www.hot-stock.com for full details.

COMPANY OVERVIEW

Alternative Entertainment, Inc. (the "Company") is engaged in the Adult 
Media and Entertainment Industry. Specifically, the acquisition, 
development and operation of Upscale Gentlemen's Clubs and advanced 
on-line media for E-Commerce on Internet Sites. The Company plans a 
national chain of Upscale Gentlemen's Clubs with the focus on business 
and professional male patrons. The main floor, which caters to patrons 25 
to 39 years of age, will incorporate an evolving theme concept conducive 
to a "party atmosphere" and will operate under the trade name BOYS TOYS. 
Private club facilities of the Boardroom Restaurant will target individuals 
ages 40 to 65 and offer full service dining, an extensive cigar lounge and 
a vast selection of premium wines and liquor.

The clubs will enable the Company to facilitate onsite film production and 
live video streaming of the female entertainers as content to the on-line 
community. Initially the live content will provide revenues via E-Commerce 
on Company owned Web Sites. Such content will later be repackaged and 
distributed through Webmasters and individual owners of the 45,000 
established Adult Sites on the Internet.

The Company has an extremely strong management team comprised of several 
key executives, including the president, of the leading management company 
within the Gentlemen's Club Industry. The management team has over 100 years 
of combined knowledge of the Industry.

 

INDUSTRY HIGHLIGHTS

$4 Billion a year Gentlemen's Club Industry - 25% pretax margins 
3,618,000 average yearly revenue per upscale club - $488 sales per sq. ft.  
36% of all businessmen entertain their clientele at Gentlemen's Clubs 
$1.2 Billion a year Internet Adult Sites - 70% pretax margins 
Media content providers are basically non-existent 
Consolidation play exists for both segments of the industry
 

SELECTIVE FINANCIAL HIGHLIGHTS

The Company has internally raised $2,000,000 to date through a combination 
of equity and convertible debt. The Company has a San Francisco property 
(15,000 sq. ft.) under construction and an option to purchase two additional 
clubs.


Once again visit http://www.hot-stock.com for full details.


--- Disclaimer ---

This material is being provided by Hot-Stock, an electronic newsletter 
paid by the issuer for publishing the information contained in this report.
Alternative Entertainment, Inc. has paid a consideration of 5,000 shares of 
common stock of Alternative Entertainment, Inc. to Hot-Stock as payment for 
the publication of the information contained in this report.  Hot-Stock 
and its affiliates have agreed not to sell the common stock received as 
payment for its services until November 1, 1998, which date is 15 days 
from the initial dissemination of this report.  After such date, Hot-Stock
may sell such shares.  Because Hot-Stock is paid for its services, there 
is an inherent conflict of interest in Hot-Stock's statements and opinions 
and such statements and opinions cannot be considered independent.  
The information contained in this publication is for informational purposes 
only, and not to be construed as an offer to sell or solicitation of an 
offer to buy any security.  Hot-Stock makes no representation or warrant 
relating to the validity of the facts presented nor does Hot-Stock represent 
or warrant that all material facts necessary to make an investment decision 
are presented above.  All statements of opinions are those of Hot-Stock.  
Hot-Stock relies exclusively on information gathered from public filings 
on featured companies, as well as, in certain circumstances, interviews 
conducted by Hot-Stock of management of featured companies.  Investors should 
not rely solely on the information contained in this publication.  Rather, 
investors should use the information contained in this publication as a 
starting point for conducting additional research on the featured companies in 
order to allow the investor to form his or her own opinion regarding the 
featured companies.  Factual statements contained in this publication are 
made as of the date stated and they are subject to change without notice.  
Hot-Stock is not a registered investment adviser, broker or a dealer.  
Investment in the companies reviewed is speculative and extremely high-risk 
and may result in the loss of some or all of any investment made in 
Alternative Entertainment, Inc.  This publication contains forward-looking 
statements that are subject to risk and uncertainties that could cause 
results to differ materially from those set forth in the forward-looking 
statements.  These forward-looking statements represent the judgment of 
Alternative Entertainment, Inc. as of the date of this publication.  The Company 
disclaims any intent or obligation to update these forward-looking statements.  





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED SAT NOV 7 
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 01:10:26 -0800 (PST)
To: (100S OF FREE DAILY PICS!)
Subject: 100S OF FREE PICS'N'LINKS EVERY DAY!
Message-ID: <19981107081000.9534.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


+ 30 SUPERB, HI-RES, HOT PHOTOS
+ 5 SUPER SEXY STORIES
+ XXX EROTIC SEX
+ PORNFEEDS
+ FREE HARDCORE
+ MY BUTT COLLECTION
+ WET DREAMS
+ THE IDEAL NUDE BEACH
+ ADULT-WEBSITES.COM
+ ASIAN BELLES
+ MISS TEASE FREE XXX PLAYHOUSE
+ GOT XXX?
+ BONUS PIC 1 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/30774.htm
+ BONUS PIC 2 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/13351.htm
+ BONUS PIC 3 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/19889.htm
+ BONUS PIC 4 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/20707.htm
+ BONUS PIC 5 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/31569.htm
+ MUCH, MUCH MORE!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Email Ad: 
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 07:41:19 -0800 (PST)
To: @
Subject: Advertise to Millions On-Line...New WWW Marketing Package
Message-ID: <199811081541.HAA29750@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


To automatically be removed from all
future mailings please reply with 
"Remove" in the subject heading.
-----------------------------------------



Keep reading to find out how you can...Reach 
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2. An Internet Connection ($19.95 A Month or Less)

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It is by far the FASTEST and LEAST EXPENSIVE way 
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Comparison of Bulk Email vs Conventional Forms 
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=> A Bulk Mailing to 250,000 People through 
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=> A Web Site Banner Advertisement to 250,000  
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web site on:

* Newsgroups
* Search Engines
* On-line Classifieds
* Banner Advertisements
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DO PEOPLE ACTUALLY BUY ANYTHING FROM THE I
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A recent survey by Survey Net on the purchasing 
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We also provide full service Bulk Email
Broadcasting.  We'll do the mailings for you and
forward all responses to you on the daily basis.

For rates and info please
email us at sendinfo@mailcity.com


Thank You for Your Time.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED SUN NOV 8 
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 08:50:35 -0800 (PST)
To: (100S OF FREE DAILY PICS!)
Subject: 100S OF FREE PICS'N'LINKS EVERY DAY!
Message-ID: <19981108081000.9047.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


+ 30 SUPERB, HI-RES, HOT PHOTOS
+ 5 SUPER SEXY STORIES
+ ADULT INTERNET XXX
+ BONEME.COM
+ EARTHQUAKE NUDE WOMEN
+ SIMPLY STUNNING
+ HENTAI BIJUTU
+ ULTIMATE SLUTS
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+ MASTURB8
+ INSTANT BONER
+ EROTICA EXOTICA
+ BONUS PIC 1 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/25388.htm
+ BONUS PIC 2 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/24585.htm
+ BONUS PIC 3 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/1257.htm
+ BONUS PIC 4 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/2462.htm
+ BONUS PIC 5 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/27831.htm
+ MUCH, MUCH MORE!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Renegade 
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 17:08:24 -0800 (PST)
To: John Young 
Subject: Re: Spy News
In-Reply-To: <199811081454.JAA30292@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981108190424.007c4b90@texoma.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


None of them were even known, much less found, until Ronald Pelton starting
pointing them out to the russkies on a world map.

At 09:45 AM 11/08/1998 -0500, John Young wrote:
>NYT reports today on a new book, "Blind Man's Bluff,"
>which reports on the US's success at placing surveillance 
>devices on Soviet subsea communications cables around 
>the world. With much technical detail about how it was 
>done, beginning with the simple but overlooked idea of 
>locating shoreline warning signs about undersea cables 
>then tracking from there.
>
>The devices, some up to 20 feet long for housing elaborate 
>processing equipment, captured electronic emanations, thereby 
>eluding detection measures aimed at physical taps. One was 
>found by the Soviets but  most were not and much information 
>on the program is still classified.
>
>AT&T and Bell labs built many of them. The US Navy will not 
>comment on the book, citing national security restrictions.


-Renegade




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Dave Emery 
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 20:20:40 -0800 (PST)
To: Steve Schear 
Subject: Re: Spy News
In-Reply-To: <199811081454.JAA30292@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <19981108232025.G15373@die.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Sun, Nov 08, 1998 at 02:51:07PM -0800, Steve Schear wrote:
> 
> With the advent of fiber optics capable of repeater-less operation over
> transoceanic distances, one would think this sort of underwater surveilence
> would be come much more difficult.

	Actually they use optical amplifiers rather than repeaters and
are thus repeaterless in that sense rather than depending on the loss of
a single passive fiber being small enough to work all the way across
the pond.   But one supposes the technology of tapping the cables must
have been developed, though indeed a lot harder because one has to
actually dig into the cable (and deal with the high voltage for powering
the amplifiers and so forth) and tap the individual fibers with quantum
coupling type taps.   And one supposes the taps are more detectable.
The whole issue may be moot by virtue of the extent to which the carriers
are in bed with UKUSA anyway, however, as there aren't very many fiber
cables run by unfreindly parties unwilling to part with the bitstream...


> 
> --Steve
> 
> 

-- 
	Dave Emery N1PRE,  die@die.com  DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass. 
PGP fingerprint = 2047/4D7B08D1 DE 6E E1 CC 1F 1D 96 E2  5D 27 BD B0 24 88 C3 18





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: trgz941@netscape.com
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 05:12:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: BOOST YOUR WEB SITE'S TRAFFIC--GET LISTED ON YAHOO!
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


BOOST YOUR WEB SITE'S TRAFFIC--GET LISTED ON YAHOO!


----------------

THE MARKETING BENEFITS OF HAVING A YAHOO! LISTING


FACT: Yahoo! is the most important search engine/directory 
on which your Web site can be listed.  

FACT: Independently conducted Internet studies show that 
42% of all Internet traffic and 70% of all business-to-
business Web site traffic is generated from Yahoo!.

FACT: Getting your Web site listed on Yahoo! is without 
question the single most important marketing step you can 
take to promote your Web site. 


EXAMPLE: For some of our clients, a Yahoo! listing is the 
only Internet advertising they have--and the only 
advertising they need. 

EXAMPLE: Some of our clients now receive over 20,000 
hits per *day* and do well over $100,000 in Internet sales 
per month--not from expensive advertising, but all from a
single Yahoo listing.




----------------

YAHOO! REJECTS 90% OF ALL SUBMITTED WEB SITES--BE IN THE 10%


PROBLEM: In case you didn't know, Yahoo!'s staff rejects 
over 90% of the submissions they receive. 


SOLUTION: Our R&D division has studied hundreds of sites--
both those that have been successfuly indexed and those that 
have been rejected.

SOLUTION: Based on our findings, we've helped hundreds of 
clients not only get their site into the Yahoo! index, but 
into a very prominent place within that index. 

The Yahoo! Project Team can do the same for you.




----------------

MY SITE HAS ALREADY BEEN REJECTED BY YAHOO! WHAT CAN I DO?

PROBLEM: "I submitted my site to Yahoo! but it was rejected. 
What can I do now?"

SOLUTION: If your site has already been rejected--don't 
despair. We've helped many clients' sites get into Yahoo!'s 
index even after they've been rejected.





----------------

THE YAHOO! SITE SELECTION PROCESS--IN A NUTSHELL

"I can just submit my URL and be considered for a listing, 
right? It's easy, isn't it?"

No. It's not. Read on to learn why.


PROBLEM: Every site that gets accepted into the Yahoo! 
directory is scrutinized by a Yahoo! "editor." The first 
step in the submission process is to get an already 
overworked editor to look at your site.

SOLUTION: We have a carefully-researched technique to 
help your site's chances of being examined.



PROBLEM: Before submitting, your site *must* be prepared
for the Yahoo! editor's "10 minute lookover." In order
to grab that editor's attention--and get listed--you need
to understand what he or she will be examining to 
determine if your Web site gets a Yahoo! listing.  

SOLUTION: Our R&D division has studied hundreds of Yahoo! 
rejection letters and learned why Yahoo! editors commonly 
reject sites. In short, we can *tell* you 




----------------

SOLUTION: THE "SECRETS TO GETTING A TOP YAHOO! LISTING" REPORT

We offer an information-packed "Secrets to getting a top 
Yahoo! listing" report that will tell you exactly what 
Yahoo! editors will be looking for when they evaluate your 
site. 

You can learn from hundreds of other people's mistakes so 
that you won't make them when submitting--or resubmitting--
your site.


Here's what's covered in the report:

<> A general overview of Yahoo! and how it works

<> The technical details of what they look for 

<> What *specific* types of content you *must* have

<> What *never* to do before submitting to Yahoo!

<> Why looking at your competitors is so important before
     submitting

<> The specifics of how to submit properly to skyrocket
     your chances

<> The best-kept secret on the net: this single submission 
     technique alone has achieved top rankings for many of
     our clients!
   

----------------

FOR THE SERIOUS SITE OWNER--THE CUSTOMIZED YAHOO! EVALUATION


We also offer a "Customized Evaluation" service where we'll 
examine your site like a Yahoo! editor will--and tell you, 
step-by-step, each of the changes you'll need to make before 
submitting to Yahoo!.


The "Customized Evaluation" includes all of the information 
from the "Secrets to getting a top Yahoo! listing" report *plus*:

<> A customized evaluation of your competitors' sites and why 
      they are so important to consider before submitting

<> An evaluation of your site's technical specs. and 
      recommendations for improving them

<> An evaluation of your site's content and recommendations 
      for improving it





----------------

SUMMARY: WHY YOU NEED A GOOD LISTING ON YAHOO!

(1) If you're thinking of submitting your site to Yahoo!
--or have already tried and failed--put our research and 
the failure of others on your side.

(2) Let us help you dramatically improve the effectiveness 
of your on-line marketing efforts. Preparing your site for
Yahoo! is worth the extra effort.

(3) Remember: Yahoo! is the only *free* Internet marketing
resource that can help you to increase your long-term goals 
of widespread exposure and profitability.

(4) Best of all, once your listed in Yahoo, you're there 
forever. This one-time effort will be rewarded with years of
residual benefits.
benefits



----------------

PRICING

"Secrets to getting listed on Yahoo!" report -- $99

Customized Web site evaluation (incl. report) -- $249




----------------

CONTACT US:    Call us at:  (314) 994-1286

<> Learn more about the Yahoo! project and us.  We'll explain
exactly how we can maximize your particular site's chances
of a top Yahoo! listing

<> We'd love to answer any questions you might have! 

<> It could be the single most important phone call you'll ever
make when it comes to the on-line success of your website!

                            (314) 994-1286


 




----------------
If you've received this E-mail in error, or do not desire to receive 
any further mailings from the Yahoo! Project Team, please REPLY to
this E-mail with the word "REMOVE" in the E-mail's subject line.

Thank you.















From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: trgz941@netscape.com
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 05:14:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: BOOST YOUR WEB SITE'S TRAFFIC--GET LISTED ON YAHOO!
Message-ID: <724mlh8h7UOO>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


BOOST YOUR WEB SITE'S TRAFFIC--GET LISTED ON YAHOO!


----------------

THE MARKETING BENEFITS OF HAVING A YAHOO! LISTING


FACT: Yahoo! is the most important search engine/directory 
on which your Web site can be listed.  

FACT: Independently conducted Internet studies show that 
42% of all Internet traffic and 70% of all business-to-
business Web site traffic is generated from Yahoo!.

FACT: Getting your Web site listed on Yahoo! is without 
question the single most important marketing step you can 
take to promote your Web site. 


EXAMPLE: For some of our clients, a Yahoo! listing is the 
only Internet advertising they have--and the only 
advertising they need. 

EXAMPLE: Some of our clients now receive over 20,000 
hits per *day* and do well over $100,000 in Internet sales 
per month--not from expensive advertising, but all from a
single Yahoo listing.




----------------

YAHOO! REJECTS 90% OF ALL SUBMITTED WEB SITES--BE IN THE 10%


PROBLEM: In case you didn't know, Yahoo!'s staff rejects 
over 90% of the submissions they receive. 


SOLUTION: Our R&D division has studied hundreds of sites--
both those that have been successfuly indexed and those that 
have been rejected.

SOLUTION: Based on our findings, we've helped hundreds of 
clients not only get their site into the Yahoo! index, but 
into a very prominent place within that index. 

The Yahoo! Project Team can do the same for you.




----------------

MY SITE HAS ALREADY BEEN REJECTED BY YAHOO! WHAT CAN I DO?

PROBLEM: "I submitted my site to Yahoo! but it was rejected. 
What can I do now?"

SOLUTION: If your site has already been rejected--don't 
despair. We've helped many clients' sites get into Yahoo!'s 
index even after they've been rejected.





----------------

THE YAHOO! SITE SELECTION PROCESS--IN A NUTSHELL

"I can just submit my URL and be considered for a listing, 
right? It's easy, isn't it?"

No. It's not. Read on to learn why.


PROBLEM: Every site that gets accepted into the Yahoo! 
directory is scrutinized by a Yahoo! "editor." The first 
step in the submission process is to get an already 
overworked editor to look at your site.

SOLUTION: We have a carefully-researched technique to 
help your site's chances of being examined.



PROBLEM: Before submitting, your site *must* be prepared
for the Yahoo! editor's "10 minute lookover." In order
to grab that editor's attention--and get listed--you need
to understand what he or she will be examining to 
determine if your Web site gets a Yahoo! listing.  

SOLUTION: Our R&D division has studied hundreds of Yahoo! 
rejection letters and learned why Yahoo! editors commonly 
reject sites. In short, we can *tell* you 




----------------

SOLUTION: THE "SECRETS TO GETTING A TOP YAHOO! LISTING" REPORT

We offer an information-packed "Secrets to getting a top 
Yahoo! listing" report that will tell you exactly what 
Yahoo! editors will be looking for when they evaluate your 
site. 

You can learn from hundreds of other people's mistakes so 
that you won't make them when submitting--or resubmitting--
your site.


Here's what's covered in the report:

<> A general overview of Yahoo! and how it works

<> The technical details of what they look for 

<> What *specific* types of content you *must* have

<> What *never* to do before submitting to Yahoo!

<> Why looking at your competitors is so important before
     submitting

<> The specifics of how to submit properly to skyrocket
     your chances

<> The best-kept secret on the net: this single submission 
     technique alone has achieved top rankings for many of
     our clients!
   

----------------

FOR THE SERIOUS SITE OWNER--THE CUSTOMIZED YAHOO! EVALUATION


We also offer a "Customized Evaluation" service where we'll 
examine your site like a Yahoo! editor will--and tell you, 
step-by-step, each of the changes you'll need to make before 
submitting to Yahoo!.


The "Customized Evaluation" includes all of the information 
from the "Secrets to getting a top Yahoo! listing" report *plus*:

<> A customized evaluation of your competitors' sites and why 
      they are so important to consider before submitting

<> An evaluation of your site's technical specs. and 
      recommendations for improving them

<> An evaluation of your site's content and recommendations 
      for improving it





----------------

SUMMARY: WHY YOU NEED A GOOD LISTING ON YAHOO!

(1) If you're thinking of submitting your site to Yahoo!
--or have already tried and failed--put our research and 
the failure of others on your side.

(2) Let us help you dramatically improve the effectiveness 
of your on-line marketing efforts. Preparing your site for
Yahoo! is worth the extra effort.

(3) Remember: Yahoo! is the only *free* Internet marketing
resource that can help you to increase your long-term goals 
of widespread exposure and profitability.

(4) Best of all, once your listed in Yahoo, you're there 
forever. This one-time effort will be rewarded with years of
residual benefits.
benefits



----------------

PRICING

"Secrets to getting listed on Yahoo!" report -- $99

Customized Web site evaluation (incl. report) -- $249




----------------

CONTACT US:    Call us at:  (314) 994-1286

<> Learn more about the Yahoo! project and us.  We'll explain
exactly how we can maximize your particular site's chances
of a top Yahoo! listing

<> We'd love to answer any questions you might have! 

<> It could be the single most important phone call you'll ever
make when it comes to the on-line success of your website!

                            (314) 994-1286


 




----------------
If you've received this E-mail in error, or do not desire to receive 
any further mailings from the Yahoo! Project Team, please REPLY to
this E-mail with the word "REMOVE" in the E-mail's subject line.

Thank you.















From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED MON NOV 9 
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 01:21:14 -0800 (PST)
To: (100S OF FREE DAILY PICS!)
Subject: 100S OF FREE PICS'N'LINKS EVERY DAY!
Message-ID: <19981109081000.20348.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


+ 30 SUPERB, HI-RES, HOT PHOTOS
+ 5 SUPER SEXY STORIES
+ LESBIAN FRIENDS
+ TECHNOPORN
+ SOUTHERN BELLE BLOWJOBS
+ HOT PICS II
+ NAKED 4 U
+ ORGASM 4 ALL
+ JACK IN THE BOX PORNO
+ SAVING RYAN'S PRIVATES
+ STIFF ONE EYE
+ CHAPO'S SEX PAGES
+ BONUS PIC 1 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/20001.htm
+ BONUS PIC 2 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/3051.htm
+ BONUS PIC 3 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/15393.htm
+ BONUS PIC 4 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/16985.htm
+ BONUS PIC 5 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/24093.htm
+ MUCH, MUCH MORE!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Shostack 
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 05:09:00 -0800 (PST)
To: Cypherpunks Mailing List 
Subject: TEMPEST Laptop from Wang
Message-ID: <19981109082107.A13046@weathership.homeport.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Sorry to not post the article, but Wang just announced a TEMPEST
compliant portable computer.

http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,28483,00.html?st.ne.fd.mdh



-- 
"It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once."
					               -Hume






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: swedegirl@tracor-es.com
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 15:21:02 -0800 (PST)
To: fireball@3253137429.tracor-es.com
Subject: Attract men and/or women
Message-ID: <199811092252.RAA16047@host13.tracor-es.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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Get extra tapes as gifts: add $9.50 for each additional tape. No additional shipping. 
























The Mailing List that you are being mailed from was filtered against
a Global Filter List. If you would like not to recieve any other mailings of this type please goto:

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED TUE NOV 10 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 02:36:53 -0800 (PST)
To: (100S OF FREE DAILY PICS!)
Subject: 100S OF FREE PICS'N'LINKS EVERY DAY!
Message-ID: <19981110081000.6668.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


+ 30 SUPERB, HI-RES, HOT PHOTOS
+ 5 SUPER SEXY STORIES
+ FAST LOADING XXX HARDCORE
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+ ASIAN SLUTS
+ SAVING RYAN'S PRIVATES
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+ BITCHES IN HEAT
+ MIDNIGHT PASSION
+ BONUS PIC 1 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/13204.htm
+ BONUS PIC 2 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/18769.htm
+ BONUS PIC 3 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/10668.htm
+ BONUS PIC 4 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/19144.htm
+ BONUS PIC 5 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/24117.htm
+ MUCH, MUCH MORE!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: private@soon.com
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 12:13:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: securities - PRIVATE PLACEMENT WSG TECH, INC.
Message-ID: <199811101951.NAA17490@dns.rodpas.com.mx>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Opportunities in manufacturing and marketing patented products. This
announcement is neither an offer to sell nor a solicitation of an offer to
buy these securities.  Sales will be made only by a final Offering
Memorandum and only in states where these securities may be offered in
compliance with the securities laws of such states.  The final
Offering Memorandum will NOT be available to residents of the states of
Hawaii, Washington, or Wisconsin.  PRIVATE PLACEMENT MEMORANDUM REGULATION
- RULE 504 UNDER THE SECURITIES ACT OF 1933.  500,000 Shares of
Common class non-voting stock.  (Par Value $.001 Per Share) $2.00 Per
Share with a 5,000 Share Minimum of WSG Tech, Inc.  WSG Tech, Inc.
(Company), a Nevada corporation was incorporated in Nevada in August
1998.  The Company owns the manufacturing and distribution rights, or
has the Options to the rights of several commercially viable patented
products, and is negotiating for others.  The firm also owns the option to
purchase an established manufacturing firm with over twenty (20) years of
continuous profitable performance.  The completion of this purchase
will give WSG Tech, Inc. complete control over the manufacturing, sales,
distribution and fulfillment of its own products.  It will also give
the Company a core business of manufacturing for other clients as well as
an experienced production and sales staff.  The Company has recently
concluded an Agreement with an International marketing firm, and is
negotiating an agreement for the manufacture and distribution of its
products in Europe and South America.  The Company's corporate mailing
address is P.O. Box 541732 Lake Worth, Florida 33454 USA  The company is
offering to the public an invitation to participate in the funding of the
company.  For a copy of the Offering Memorandum, you may contact the
Company's investment consultant, e-mail us at privateplacement@bigfoot.com
Be sure to put "Send Me A Copy" in the Subject Line and include your name
and address.








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: inform@what2read.com (Information What2Read)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 21:20:55 -0800 (PST)
To: what2read-l@what2read.com
Subject: Black Book Source
Message-ID: <36492CF3.8F99F883@what2read.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



www.WHAT2READ.COM

Your on-line source for books by African Americans and other prominent
blacks.
 
Find books to help you with your holiday cooking and entertaining;
 
Beautiful gift books, books for children and books for sheer reading
enjoyment.
 
We also have book reviews and books listed by category including
bestsellers
biographies
fiction--popular and literary
inspirational
 
Over 400,000 titles available and all at DISCOUNT prices.

COME VISIT US!

www.what2read.com
 

LIST UNSUBSCRIBE
*****************************************
You can unsubscribe from this list at:

http://www.bidwhist.com:81/guest/RemoteListSummary/What2ReadGeneral

What2Read, Inc.
5310 S. Cornell Ave.
Suite 3
Chicago, IL 60615
 
 
 


From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Jack Oswald / CEO / RPK Security" 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 16:27:46 -0800 (PST)
To: Announcements@rpk.com
Subject: ANNOUNCEMENT: RPK SECURITY ADDS C SOURCE LIBRARY AND SOLARIS PORT TO ENCRYPTONITE POWERFUL PUBLIC KEY ENCRYPTION TOOLKIT
Message-ID: <199811110023.QAA16095@proxy3.ba.best.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


You have received this message because at some time in the past your name was submitted to our e-mail mailing list database.  If you do not wish (or no longer wish) to receive announcements, updates and news concerning the RPK Encryptonite Engine or the RPK InvisiMail e-mail security products, please forward this message to remove@rpkusa.com

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CONTACT:
Paula Miller							Lyn Oswald
Nadel Phelan, Inc.						RPK Security, Inc.
(831) 439-5570 x277						(212) 488-9891	
paulam@nadelphelan.com					lynoswald@rpkusa.com
			

RPK SECURITY ADDS C SOURCE LIBRARY AND SOLARIS PORT TO ENCRYPTONITE POWERFUL PUBLIC KEY ENCRYPTION TOOLKIT 

SAN FRANCISCO, CA. November 3, 1998 - RPK Security, Inc. (www.rpkusa.com), a technology leader in fast public key encryption, announced today the addition of a Solaris port and C source library to its RPK Encryptonite Software Toolkit version 3.0. The RPK Toolkit enables integrators, developers and engineers to quickly and easily incorporate fast public key encryption and strong security into applications, without knowledge of cryptography.

The RPK Toolkit, a software implementation of the RPK Encryptonite Engine, allows developers to build custom applications with strong encryption for information sensitive applications and industries such as Internet, communications, legal, health care and financial services. The Toolkit provides 40 percent improvement in engine initialization (compared with V2.1), resulting in remarkably better application response times.  With a new "packet encryption" technique, the RPK Toolkit is well suited for broadcast and multi-cast applications, especially on the Internet. 

"Because the RPK Toolkit is developed outside of the U.S., it is not subject to U.S. export laws which gives a tremendous advantage to international customers, allowing them to produce secure, fast and flexible systems with strong encryption," said Jack Oswald, president and CEO of RPK Security.

The RPK Encryptonite Engine uniquely combines all the benefits of other public key systems (authentication, digital signatures and digital certificates) with the speed of a secret key system into one algorithm. With the Encryptonite Engine's superior performance, applications requiring streaming data, sound, video or numerous transactions, such as credit card payments, receive instantaneous responses and secure communication links. The RPK Toolkit includes: ANSI standard C/C++ libraries for Win95/98/NT, HP/UX, Sun Solaris (C only) and Linux, Delphi 3.0/4.0 VCL component for Win95/NT, DLL and ActiveX.  It also has been compiled and tested with Visual C++, Borland C++ Builder and gnu/g++.

Pricing and Availability:
The RPK Encryptonite Software Toolkit is available for licensing worldwide. Pricing starts at $695 per developer (development only). Deployment license fees are based upon custom configurations. For sales information, call (415) 563-1800 or e-mail sales@rpkusa.com

ABOUT RPK SECURITY
Founded in 1995, RPK Security, Inc. is a technology leader in fast public key encryption. RPK's cryptographic research and product development is based in New Zealand, Switzerland and the U.K, with worldwide sales and marketing in San Francisco, CA.  Contact RPK at www.rpkusa.com or (212) 488-9891 or www.rpkusa.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Exodus.Books" 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 22:18:59 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: "Pulpit Confessions: Exposing The Black Church"
Message-ID: <199811110547.AAA02632@websmtp1.bellsouth.bigfoot.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


CALL TODAY TO ORDER THIS BOOK - (800) 830-2047

"What nobody had the nerve to tell you until now."
"Real evidence of what you only suspected."
"The Black Church as you've never known it before."


Pulpit Confessions:
Exposing The Black Church

by
N. Moore

$16.00
ISBN: 0-9658299-2-8
_____________________________
Pulpit Confessions: Exposing The Black Church is an honest,
behind the scenes look at the African-American church. The
author spent a decade as a preacher and pastor in the black
church and is actually betraying an unofficial code of
silence by writing this book.

The author began ministry in his teens and was pastoring
by his early twenties. He speaks frankly about his and other
ministers' odysseys from sincere, well intentioned prodigies
to cynical, sinful, showman.

He soon discovered that things in the church were not as they
seemed. In this ground-breaking book, he describes a secular
and often profane ministerial community that is often shrouded
in pseudo holiness.

He exposes the thoughts and motivations of both ministers and
congregations and their degenerate power struggles which
often turn violent.

He pulls no punches when he untangles the myths, unravels the
mystique and reveals the secrets of the Black Church.

_____________________________
Chapter Titles
"The Call"
"The Process"
"Mentors"
"Let's Talk About Preaching"
"Landing A Church"
"Show Me The Money"
"Learning To Play Hard Ball"
"Dr. Jekyll and Rev. Hyde"
"Where Do We Go From Here?"
_____________________________

ORDERING INFORMATION

Pulpit Confessions:
Exposing The Black Church
by
N. Moore
$16.00
ISBN: 0-9658299-2-8
$3.00 Shipping and Handling
_____________________________
Order By Phone
800-830-2047
---------------------------
Exodus Books
5411 E. State Street #348 
Rockford, IL 61108





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED WED NOV 11 
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 01:23:38 -0800 (PST)
To: (100S OF FREE DAILY PICS!)
Subject: 100S OF FREE PICS'N'LINKS EVERY DAY!
Message-ID: <19981111081000.11842.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: magic3@n2mail.com
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 10:56:58 -0800 (PST)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: If you need a change of lifestyle, read on......
Message-ID: <199811111848.TAA24924@ns.iqnet.cz>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Discover for yourself a business that provides a 5 Figure Income within the
1st month and Fantastic Income within the 1st week! 

I Actually Net $1,000 My First Week
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Call the toll free number, 1-800-811-2141, ID #58420
This Isn't MLM.
There Is Absolutely NO Selling (You Will Never Touch The Telephone)
There Is No Large Investment.  Just A Consistent Weekly Pay Check.
Anyone Can Do This Business and I Mean Anyone!
But, Don't Take My Word For It!

Call The Toll Free Number!  1-800-811-2141, ID #58420
You will need ID #58420 (Live Operators Are Waiting To Take Your Call Monday - Saturday 8AM-
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Want paperwork in your hands FOD: 415-273-6020 (7 pg.)
For international callers, go to http://www.net2phone.com  to be able to call this number.
LISTEN TO OUR TOLL FREE RECORDED CALL 1-888-446-6949 or 1-888-703-5389

Work smarter, not harder.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED THU NOV 12 
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 01:14:37 -0800 (PST)
To: (100S OF FREE DAILY PICS!)
Subject: 100S OF FREE PICS'N'LINKS EVERY DAY!
Message-ID: <19981112081000.9136.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
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       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "5se Investment Research" 
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 22:25:30 -0800 (PST)
To: unlisted-recipients:; (no To-header on input)
Subject: Long Term Returns: Value vs. Growth
Message-ID: <003701be0ecd$dea21000$0c1c9ad1@default>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Dear Fellow Investor,

Recently two professors from the University of Chicago, Eugene Fama and Ken
French, published a study demonstrating the difference in long term returns
of value and
growth stocks. The study encompassed almost all stocks on every major US
exchange.

This celebrated study presented overwhelming evidence that market forces
tend to overreact to past events, pricing growth stocks too high, and value
stocks too low. Because of these reactions, as a group, growth stocks
produce below average returns for investors who purchase them at high
prices, and value stocks produce above average returns for investors who
purchase them at depressed prices.

The professors used book to market value to correlate the long term returns.
Value stocks having high book to market value and Growth stocks identified
by a low book to market value.

On average the stocks fitting the value criteria had average annual returns
of 21.4% while growth stocks had only 8% average annual returns. Factoring
in inflation, the real long term rate of return for value stocks is a bit
over 15% but only 2.5% for the growth group.

Essentially the study is a good reminder that, when it comes to investing,
what goes around comes around. Good companies can experience bad times and
be unfairly priced. Apple, IBM, Coke, American Express, and many other
excellent companies have experienced the wrath of an unforgiving market, and
yet, they are companies with a proven ability to persist in the face of
large challenges.

Identifying value is simple. All you have to do is look for Good companies
experiencing temporary difficulties. This simple strategy will, if you are
willing to wait out the storm, reward you with hefty long term returns and
lower risk (as the F&F study also showed).

Stocks that meet the F&F criteria for value and have solid management in
todays market include:

Callaway Golf
Ensco Corp
Reebok
Advanta Corp

To learn more about the F&F study read Robert Haugen's book "The New
Finance" available at

http://www.5se.com/5se1.htm


Regards,

Jeffrey Minich
5se Investment Research

New at the 5se site
**********************
PortfolioPower! Portfolio Management Model versions for both Excel 95 & 97.
Special Upgrade price, only $19.95, for PortfolioPower! Trial Users.
Includes a special single-issue online preview of the latest 5se Wealth
Building Report.

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fulfillment with your American Express, Visa, Mastercard, Diners Club, or
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http://www.5se.com/secretproduct.htm








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED FRI NOV 13 
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 01:55:23 -0800 (PST)
To: (100S OF FREE DAILY PICS!)
Subject: 100S OF FREE PICS'N'LINKS EVERY DAY!
Message-ID: <19981113081000.1148.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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+ CUMSHOT QUEENS
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+ BONUS PIC 5 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/9140.htm
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       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: walt86@hotmail.com
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 09:18:14 -0800 (PST)
To: walt86@hotmail.com
Subject: ''FOR YOUR EYE'S ONLY"
Message-ID: <9811131313.AA01924@vibora.ica.luz.ve>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



     
    
    Do you know who you're sleeping with? 
    
    
    Do you know what your background report says? 
   
    
    Who's Caring For Your Children? 

                             
    
           http://www.nation-search.com



    
    To unsubsribe from this list, both remove and             undelverable. 
    
    walt@nation-search.com
    
    
    
    




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 01143572@amdiscount.net
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 14:53:29 -0800 (PST)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: Confidential Scanner Service
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


CONFIDENTIAL SCANNING SERVICE

First item scanned $5.00. Second item scanned $4.00.  Each additional item scanned $3.00

We will scan and send file to your e-mail address within 24 hours after receipt.
If you would like your photo returned you must enclose a self addressed and stamped envelope

Files should be checked as soon as possible for your satisfaction. All photos received without directions for return will be destroyed after 10 days
We accept Master Card ,Visa, Cash or Money Order  (no checks) 
Required Information

E-mail address_____________________

Save as _________________File (Gif or JPEG) for the web or (TIF) for artwork.

Required information for mature or adult photos

I AM 18 YEARS OF AGE OR OVER AND THERE ARE NO PERSONS IN THESE PHOTOS UNDER 18 YEARS OF AGE.

Signed by:____________________________________________

Required information for credit card

MC_____ Visa_____  Card #________________________Expiration_____________

Name of cardholder____________________________________________________

Address _____________________________________________________________

City_______________________________ST_________ZIP________________

Mail form and payment or payment information to:
American Discount Services
8515 Douglas Suite 32
Des Moines, IA  50322

For additonal information call 515-270-9651





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED SAT NOV 14 
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 02:24:50 -0800 (PST)
To: (100S OF FREE DAILY PICS!)
Subject: 100S OF FREE PICS'N'LINKS EVERY DAY!
Message-ID: <19981114081000.12518.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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+ 5 SUPER SEXY STORIES
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       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED SUN NOV 15 
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 01:13:57 -0800 (PST)
To: (100S OF FREE DAILY PICS!)
Subject: 100S OF FREE PICS'N'LINKS EVERY DAY!
Message-ID: <19981115081000.10264.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
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       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bluefish@swipnet.se
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 16:22:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Put America's Best Chili Recipes on Your Christmas List
Message-ID: <199811160022.QAA25244@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


AMERICA's BEST CHILI RECIPES ARE NOW HERE!!!

Check out our special 2 for 1 offer

All orders received December 15, 1998 are guaranteed to be 
delivered by Christmas.


Nothing is more American than a hot bowl of Chili, but if you ask 
a hundred people about how to make the best bowl of chili you'll 
probably get a hundred different answers.

America's Best Chili Recipes hopes to help answer this question 
by offering fifty of the most diverse Chili recipes that you will 
find anywhere. Plus, these recipes don't come from any sterile 
kitchen test labs, but from the family picnics,backyard 
barbecues, and tailgate parties of Chili lovers from across 
America. 

Our book is divided into four separate chapters:

Chapter I	Traditional Chili 
Chapter II	Chili with Beans
Chapter III	Low Fat/Vegetarian Chili
Chapter IV	Prize Winners			


Among the recipes you'll enjoy are:

***Barbecue Chile from New Jersey
***Lobster Chili from Maine
***Seven Pepper Chili from San Antonio
***Kosher Chili from New York 
***Nuclear Chili from San Francisco

In addition, with each recipe you'll get the story behind the 
recipe. Each contribution contains an entertaining story or 
anecdote from the person who sent the recipe. 

Read about:

*** The Ghost in the Chili Pot
*** The Secret behind Comet Chili
*** Chili passed down through three generations of LA Firemen

Buy the book for the recipes, or buy it for the stories. You'll 
find that there is a chili recipe for every finicky eater.





SPECIAL OFFER!!!

Our book normally sells for $12.95 +$2.00 shipping/handling.  
However, this Holiday Season you can get Ameica's Best Chili 
Recipes for only $9.95, and we'll pay for shipping and handling 
-- a savings of $5.00.

GET TWO COPIES AND SAVE EVEN MORE!!!

Give a copy this Christmas to a friend or relative. If you buy a 
copy of America's Best Chili Recipes we'll send you an additional 
copy for only $5.00.  That's two copies for only $14.95,  50% off 
the regular price.  

ORDER NOW!!!

All orders received by December 15, 1998 are guaranteed to be 
delivered in time for Christmas.  You can also have us mail your 
gift to your friend or relative for you.

Please use the form below :

=============================================================
ORDER FORM

Yes, I'd like to own my own copy of America's Best Chili Recipes. 
I have filled out this form to help expedite my order:

Please check-off your order:

____ One Copy of America's Best Chili Recipes for $9.95 
     (A savings of $5.00)

____ Two Copies of America's Best Chili Recipes for $14.95 
     (A savings of $14.95)


Name:

Address:

City:

State:

Zip:

E-mail Address:
(For order confirmation)


Please send payment to:

America's Best Recipes
12762 Brookhurst St. Suite 438-B
Garden Grove, CA 92840
(714) 375-5458


 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: stockmarketupdate1998iktrmjy@mci.com
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 23:51:16 -0800 (PST)
To: hsmartinvestor@aol.com
Subject: RE: MAJOR "BUY" ALERT
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Company: Internet Stock Market Resources
Symbol:  I S M R
Price:   1 3/4  ($1.75/share)

The venerated German brokerage house, Bentegestgautgen
Financials has issued a "STRONG BUY" on I S M R
with a target price of  $8.50.

I S M R is the leader of financial on-line information
and is currently profitable.  I S M R has a public float of only
300,000 shares.  For more information on I S M R go to: 
http://quicken.excite.com/investments/quotes/






ctl.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED MON NOV 16 
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 01:19:09 -0800 (PST)
To: (100S OF FREE DAILY PICS!)
Subject: 100S OF FREE PICS'N'LINKS EVERY DAY!
Message-ID: <19981116081001.19480.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


+ 30 SUPERB, HI-RES, HOT PHOTOS
+ 5 SUPER SEXY STORIES
+ BUTT NAKED BABES
+ WET CUMSHOTS & WILD HARDCORE
+ ADULT INTERNET XXX
+ INTERNET AFFAIRS
+ ADULT ARTWORK OF ARTISTS
+ A SEXY GIRL
+ FREE HARDCORE PORN
+ ASIAN XXX NYMPHO
+ FREE PORN 4 ALL
+ SIBERIAN DAWGY DAWG
+ BONUS PIC 1 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/15066.htm
+ BONUS PIC 2 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/16154.htm
+ BONUS PIC 3 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/16042.htm
+ BONUS PIC 4 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/20342.htm
+ BONUS PIC 5 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/30693.htm
+ MUCH, MUCH MORE!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: emilhusb@online.no
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 04:52:55 -0800 (PST)
To: YOU@yourplace.com
Subject: Find  Out  Anything  About  Anyone  On  The  Net   !!!!          /"][
Message-ID: <199811161355.OAA16542@dns.commnet.it>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



YOU can easily learn how to investigate and learn EVERYTHING 
about your employees, neighbors, friends, enemies, and or
anyone else  !!!


It is absolutely amazing !!!
YOU Must Get This Extraordinary Package today.........


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     and, just for fun, investigate your family history.

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     look into your children's friends history for any type 
     of record.

   +  YOU can TRACK down and locate an old debtor who is
     hiding from you and see if he/she is hiding any assets.

   +  YOU can look up "unlisted telephone numbers."  Locate
     social security, birth, adoption or death records.
     Check Army, Navy, Marine Corps, or Air Force service
     file records.  YOU will simply be amazed to learn what
     sensitive and important information other people and
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YOU Can Find Out Anything About Anyone On The Net !!!
Do background checks on people and charge for it, as
you start your own investigative services.
Stop guessing about the LAW !!!
Look up laws and do much more, direct from famous law libraries.
Get this easy to use  KIT  right away, and then,
YOU can become a private investigator.

ORDER TODAY !!!!!


Send $18.00 cash (wrapped in two pieces of paper),
money order, or check to:

                    INFORMATION, Ltd.
                    P. O. Box  515019
                    St. Louis,  MO  63151-5019  USA

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***********************************************

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         I would like to share this powerful information and show you
how to save hundreds, even thousands of dollars on advertising that
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          You can limit your promotion to a Single State or place your
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You can reach One Million Readers on the East-Cost today and a
Million on the West-Coast tomorrow.  It's that simple  !!!!

            Your cost for this priceless information, is only $19.00 !!!  
You will make that back on your first promotion.  WE are so confident that
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**********************************************************************
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********************
 
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                                  St. Louis, MO 63151-5019  
                                  U.S.A.

WE will ship your complete KIT directly to you !!!!
 

**************************************************************
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++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Admin
Internet Services
This message is not intended for residents in the 
State of Washington, screening of addresses has been done
to the best of our technical ability.
If you are a Washington resident or otherwise wish to be
removed from this list, go to global remove site if you want
your address removed from future mailing. 
http://209.84.246.162/remove.htm
 
This Global Communication has been sent to you by:
PAVILION ADVERTISING SERVICES
Offices:  London, Paris, Berlin, Hong Kong






















From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: par04783@yahoo.com
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:18:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: re your site
Message-ID: <199811201814.KAA07613@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



            We'll Submit Your Site To 

                    Over 900

     Search Engines, Directories, & Indices

      For A "One Time Cost" Of Only $39.95


     ***  100% Money Back Guarantee  ***

*** Immediately Increase Your Sites Exposure ***

 For Less Than 4 Cents Each We Will Submit Your
 Web Site To Over 900 Of The Net's Hottest Search 
 Engines, Directories & Indices.

 If your site isn't listed in the Search Engines,
 how can people find you to buy your products 
 or services?
 
 For just $39.95 we'll take the work load off your
 back instead of you trying to do it manually which
 can take days to do.

 We're the professionals that are here to help
 you have a shot at having a successful marketing
 experience with the internet.

 You know as well as we that your time is
 best utilized managing your business and not
 sitting at some keyboard hours upon hours
 trying to save less than 4 cents for each  
 submission. See how it's kind of crazy to try
 to tackle this on your own.  It's just not 
 cost effective to try to do this yourself to
 save just $39.95.

 See why businesses both large and small have
 come to us to utilize our services.  Hotels, 
 Motels, On-Line Stores, Travel Agents, Colleges, 
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 Movie Studios, Chambers Of Commerce and many, 
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 To Learn More, Call Us At The Numbers Below.
 
 Call us toll free at (800) 771-2003 in the USA
 or Canada or (916) 771-4739 outside the USA
 and we'll provide you with all the necessary
 information to get you submitted Right Away.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: strongintstock4j3s@mci.com
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 06:57:32 -0800 (PST)
To: smarket@snewsletter.net
Subject: RE:  "SIZZLER" INTERNET STOCK!
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Company: Quest Net Corp.
Symbol:  Q N E T D
Price:  2 1/2  ($2.50/share)

QNETD is a provider of global Internet and
Intranet digital networking solutions.  QNETD
has strategic alliances with MCI WorldCom, 
BellSouth Corp. and PSINet, among others.

QNETD's business model, according to independent
analysts, is projected for unprecedented exponential
growth.  QNETD is rated an immediate and "STRONG
BUY". 

For more information go to:  http://quote.yahoo.com






gg.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED TUE NOV 17 
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 01:20:26 -0800 (PST)
To: (100S OF FREE DAILY PICS!)
Subject: 100S OF FREE PICS'N'LINKS EVERY DAY!
Message-ID: <19981117081000.8809.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


+ 30 SUPERB, HI-RES, HOT PHOTOS
+ 5 SUPER SEXY STORIES
+ CUM SHOT CENTRAL
+ BLOW JOB
+ ALL THE BEAUTY THAT IS WOMAN
+ SMOOTHIE'S PLACE
+ X IN THE BOX
+ BLOW BABY BLOW
+ LESBIAN TWINS
+ CUM GET SOME XXX
+ SEXWAV
+ PORNO CITY
+ BONUS PIC 1 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/9680.htm
+ BONUS PIC 2 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/27388.htm
+ BONUS PIC 3 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/30178.htm
+ BONUS PIC 4 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/2097.htm
+ BONUS PIC 5 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/26955.htm
+ MUCH, MUCH MORE!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: sunny@mail.gklub.com
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 14:09:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Request
Message-ID: <199811172209.OAA28463@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Greetings!

I am looking for people who are serious about making money in network 
marketing.  I would like to request the chance to send you information 
on the company that I promote.
If you are completely happy where you are right now, then I simply wish 
you the best.Are you really making money? WHAT ABOUT YOUR DOWNLINE?  If 
you are in any way dissatisfied or disappointed with your experience in 
the network marketing industry, please email me back
so I can send you some information that could be the turning point in 
your networking efforts.
If you would like to learn more about a company that is leading this 
industry in the right direction, please send a reply email back 
with"More Info" in the subject line.


God Bless,
Renee



@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
Required Sender Information:

Imagetech
Pob 1167
Atlantic Beach, N C 28512
919.493.3898
sunny@mail.gklub.com
Further mailings to you may be stopped at no cost to you by 
sending a reply with REMOVE  as the subj
 
 
 
 
 
 
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Marita Näsman-Repo 
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 05:01:08 -0800 (PST)
To: F-Secure-Press-Global@DataFellows.com
Subject: MEDIA RELEASE: Data Fellows and Nokia Announce New OEM Agreement
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19981117145845.00b6d100@smtp.datafellows.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Media Release			For immediate release

Data Fellows and Nokia Announce New OEM Agreement

Data Fellows' F-Secure SSH Client and Server To be Bundled in Three Nokia
Router Product Lines 

Espoo, Finland, November 12, 1998 -- Data Fellows, the global leader in
data security software and Nokia have signed OEM bundling agreement. Under
the terms of the agreement, Nokia will bundle F-Secure SSH Server and
F-Secure SSH Client software in each unit of various Nokia routing
products: the Nokia IP400 family of router/firewall products, the Nokia
VPN200 series, and the Check Point VPN-1 RemoteLink line versions of these
products sold through various VAR (Value Added Reseller) channels. 

F-Secure SSH Client provides Windows, Macintosh and all Unix users with
secure connections over the Internet and other untrusted networks to
corporate resources running F-Secure SSH Server -- in this case, the Nokia
firewall/router products. F-Secure SSH provides proven, ICSA-certified
end-to-end security between the client workstation and the Nokia
router/firewall unit, or any other server running the software. The
software offers strong authentication and encryption based on industry
standard algorithms such as 3DES, IDEA and Blowfish, as well as data
privacy for all data transmission. All data, including the initial user ID
and password, exchanged between the Client and Server flows transparently
through an encrypted tunnel.

The new OEM agreement is the second between Nokia Telecommunications and
Data Fellows. The VPN200 series enables a company of any size to set up
network connections to all plant sites, using maximum-security standards.
Both product families are compatible, enabling simultaneous management and
control.

"F-Secure SSH has become de facto standard for secure remote
administration, maintenance and management of crucial corporate resources
such as firewalls, routers, switches, web servers and mail gateways," says
Petri Laakkonen, president of Data Fellows Inc. "By bundling the software
with leading router/firewall solutions, Nokia and Data Fellows will make
remote maintenance and administration of mission-critical network resources
much more secure, affordable and easier to adapt even to most distributed
global organizations."

"This co-operation will strengthen Nokia's security solutions. Our products
are in use for data applications where security is of the utmost
importance. We are pleased to be able to offer our customers one of the
most advanced, secure range of Firewall systems on the market," says Brian
NeSmith, Vice President, Nokia IPRG.

With offices in San Jose, CA, and Espoo, Finland, privately-owned Data
Fellows is the leading technology provider of data security solutions for
enterprise networks. The company's F-Secure data security product line
includes F-Secure Workstation Suite, consisting of malicious code detection
and removal, unobtrusive file and network encryption, and personal firewall
functionality, all integrated into a policy-based, centralized management
architecture; F-Secure Anti-Virus, with multiple scanning engines
(including F-PROT and AVP), is the most comprehensive, real-time virus
scanning and protection system for all Windows platforms; F-Secure VPN+
provides a software-based, IPSec-compliant Virtual Private Network solution
for large corporate networks as well as remote and small office networks;
F-Secure FileCrypto, the first and only product to integrate strong
real-time encryption directly into the Windows file system; F-Secure SSH,
providing secure remote login, terminal, and other connections over
unsecured networks (it is the most widely used secure remote administration
tool); and F-Secure NameSurfer for remote Internet and Intranet DNS
administration, with an easy-to-use WWW user interface that automates and
simplifies DNS administration.

Nokia is the world's leading mobile phone supplier and a leading supplier
of mobile and fixed telecom networks including related customer services.
Nokia also supplies solutions and products for fixed and wireless datacom,
as well as multimedia terminals and computer monitors. In 1997, net sales
totaled FIM 52.6 billion ($ 9.8 billion). Headquartered in Finland, Nokia
is listed on five European Stock Exchanges and on the New York Stock
Exchange (NOK.A), has sales in 130 countries and employs more than 42,000
people world-wide.

For more information, contact
Data Fellows Inc
Petri Laakkonen
675 North First Street, 8th floor
San Jose, CA 95112
tel 408-938-6700
fax 408-938-6701
Petri.Laakkonen @datafellows.com
http://www.DataFellows.com    or
info@datafellows.com.

Ms Arja Suominen, Vice President, Communications
Nokia Telecommunications 
Tel: (Int.) + 358 9 5113 8193 
Fax: (Int.) + 358 9 5113 8199
http://www.nokia.com
http://www.iprg.nokia.com 
 

--
Marita.Nasman-Repo@DataFellows.com, 
World-Wide Web http://www.DataFellows.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: rbssales@hotmail.com
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 21:13:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Your Computer Makes Money While You Sleep
Message-ID: <199811180513.VAA01022@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



        "YOUR COMPUTER CAN MAKE MONEY WHILE YOU SLEEP"
         Respected 10 Year Old Company Shows You How


I know that's an incredible statement, but bear with me while I
explain. Chances are you have already sifted through dozens of
"Get Rich Quick" schemes, chain letter offers, and LOTS of other
absurd scams that promise to make you rich overnight with no
investment and no work.

I'd like to take this opportunity to apologize for all of that.
Some Internet marketers think nothing of cheapening an otherwise
promising medium, which has the effect of casting a shadow over
the credibility of the rest of us. Don't get me started.

Anyway, my offer isn't one of those. What I'm offering is a
straightforward computer-based service that you can run full-or
part-time like a regular business. This service runs auto-
matically while you sleep, vacation, or work a "regular" job.
It provides a valuable new service for businesses in your area.

I'm offering a high-tech, low-maintenance, work-from-anywhere
business that can bring in a nice comfortable additional income
for your family. I did it for eight years. Since I started
inviting others to join me, I've helped over 4000 do the same.

                        901-751-8800
                    http://www.alice.net

I invented it, and it's called a "Remote Backup Service." You
may have read about it in Entrepreneur Magazine, Inc, Home
Office Computing, HomePC, or any of dozens of city newspapers.
I've been written up many times in books, magazines, and news-
papers. I've even spawned a few competitors who's ads you may
have seen on the Internet, and especially on the Web. Don't be
fooled by them. Mine is the first, the one that kicked off the
industry - the REAL DEAL.

It works like this: At night, while you sleep and your clients'
businesses are closed, your computer accepts backup data sent
automatically by the clients' computers. You store this data
for your clients on your computer. Your clients pay you a
monthly service charge plus a per-minute charge for every
minute they are connected to your service and a fee per-
megabyte.

This business might not sound very exciting, but believe me,
it is growing VERY rapidly. It can generate a steadily
increasing, permanent source of reliable, recurring monthly
income for your family that will improve your standard of
living, and WON'T cost a fortune to start or run, ESPECIALLY
if you already have a computer and modem; and I assume you do,
since you received this EMail. It won't take up all your time
- in fact, the service almost runs itself.

I've packaged everything I know about Remote Backup Services -
years of experience, tips and techniques. I've interviewed many
Remote Backup Service providers around the world and included
their advice and methods. I've included advertising and
marketing materials that you can use in your own business,
reviews of pricing structures, and tutorials on technical
subjects.

                   Phone: 901-751-8800
                  http://www.alice.net

(No, you DON'T have to be a computer guru to run an RBS!) I've
included the amazing software I wrote especially to run an RBS,
RBackup. That's just a small sample of what's included in the
"RBS Business Kit."

The RBS Business Kit contains everything you need to start and
operate this revolutionary new work-from-anywhere business,
INCLUDING SOFTWARE, ongoing business and technical support,
and much more. You can start out small, with say, five clients
(average billing about $50 to $100 per month) and move up as
you grow.

Our RBS Business Kits contain everything you need to know to
get started.


* RBackup Remote Backup Software
* Complete Business Operation Manual
* Camera-ready ads and brochures
* Data Loss Risk Evaluation Form
* FREE National Client Referrals
* Marketing Manual
* Ad Kit (electronic version)
* Full-time consulting support
* Subscription to The EchoNet
* Subscription to The RBS News
* A dedicated team of RBS experts
* Presentation-On-A-Disk


How much can you make? Here are some figures: An average client
spends $50 to $100 a month for a Remote Backup Service. Twenty
average clients (a small number) bring in $1000 to $2000 a month.
Many RBS Providers have 60, 100, 300, and more clients. Some
have 600 and more.


                   Phone: 901-751-8800
                   http://www.alice.net


                What Current RBS Providers Say

"Your energy and drive are truly an inspiration to me and I'm
sure to others also. Thanks for sharing your creation with us
so we can all become successful... Keep up the good work!"
C.G., Palos Hills, Il

"I restored my first client today. His PC had crashed due to
a power spike. I reformatted his hard drive and restored his
data from my RBS system. He was up and running in two hours.
The guy was wrapped. Made me feel good too!" - T.V., New
Zealand

"Very few software providers freely disseminate information
regarding future inclusions and upgrades like you do. Even
fewer accept much input regarding potential changes and up-
grades. you listen!" M.K., Tampa, Fl

"I'll be able to quit a 17-year job at the Post Office!
Thanks, Rob!" - R.W., Detroit, Mi.

                             ***

The Dallas Morning News - Aug, 1994 - "This home business
idea is new.. it can be a profitable income producer. Since
it's 'remote,' it doesn't matter where you do it."

                             ***

                    Phone: 901-751-8800
                    http://www.alice.net

The RBS BizKit comes with a 3 month subscription to our
Member's Area, and a subscription to "The RBS Dispatch,"
the monthly Electronic newsletter of the Remote Backup
Service industry.

Best of all, you'll have direct contact with your fellow
RBS Providers worldwide through our extensive internet-
linked EchoNet. Ask questions 24 hours a day. Join in
on-line conferences. Get answers on weekends and holidays.
Bounce new ideas around. Learn from the old timers. Exchange
software, brochures, and other RBS marketing material.
It's GREAT!

You have taken the first step by being kind enough to read
this too-long note. If you are ready to begin your own Remote
Backup Service, place your order now by calling 901-751-8800.
Phones are answered from 9:00AM to 5:00PM Central Time Monday
through Friday. You can also check out our 1800 page interactive
web site at http://www.alice.net

My staff and I are committed to making YOU successful in our
industry. We KNOW how to do it, because we've done it ourselves.
Many of our RBS Providers have 50, 60, 100, 200 and 300 clients
after only a few months in business. You can, too. Let us show
YOU how to make YOUR computer earn money while YOU sleep!

Call us now - 901-751-8800
http://www.alice.net

*******************************************************************


 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED WED NOV 18 
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 02:18:39 -0800 (PST)
To: (100S OF FREE DAILY PICS!)
Subject: 100S OF FREE PICS'N'LINKS EVERY DAY!
Message-ID: <19981118081000.18355.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


+ 30 SUPERB, HI-RES, HOT PHOTOS
+ 5 SUPER SEXY STORIES
+ BLOWJOB HEAVEN
+ BRIEN'S WORLD XXX
+ ANAL LAND
+ STAR WHORES
+ SEX THINKERS
+ NAKED BLONDES
+ ARNO'S STEAMY WOMEN
+ OBSCENE ORAL CUMSHOTS
+ HOT PICS
+ OBSESSION
+ BONUS PIC 1 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/4294.htm
+ BONUS PIC 2 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/5854.htm
+ BONUS PIC 3 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/11546.htm
+ BONUS PIC 4 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/16620.htm
+ BONUS PIC 5 -> http://www.stuffed.net/home/23217.htm
+ MUCH, MUCH MORE!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Jack Oswald / CEO / RPK Security Inc." 
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 13:23:24 -0800 (PST)
To: Announcements@rpk.com
Subject: ANNOUNCEMENT: RPK SECURITY ADDS NOTED XIONICS EXECUTIVE GARY AMBROSINO TO BOARD OF DIRECTORS
Message-ID: <199811182105.NAA27862@proxy3.ba.best.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


You have received this message because at some time in the past your name was submitted to our e-mail mailing list database.  If you do not wish (or no longer wish) to receive announcements, updates and news concerning the RPK Encryptonite Engine or the RPK InvisiMail e-mail security products, please forward this message to remove@rpkusa.com

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CONTACT
Paula Miller							Lyn Oswald
Nadel Phelan, Inc.						RPK Security Inc.
408-439-5570 x277						212-488-9891
paulam@nadelphelan.com					lynoswald@rpkusa.com	

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

RPK SECURITY ADDS NOTED XIONICS EXECUTIVE GARY AMBROSINO TO BOARD OF DIRECTORS

San Francisco, California, October 27, 1998 - RPK Security Inc. (www.rpkusa.com), a technology leader in fast public key encryption, today announced that Gary Ambrosino, recent vice president and general manager of Xionics Document Technologies (Nasdaq:XION), will join its Board of Directors. Following a recent round of seed financing, Mr. Ambrosino's addition to the Board is part of RPK's overall strategy to expand its management team.

Prior to joining RPK, Mr. Ambrosino spent five years at Xionics where he led the marketing and early stage sales program for the company's Multifunction Peripherals embedded control technology. Mr. Ambrosino has headed several seed stage technology companies, and spent eight years with Hewlett-Packard.  

"We are pleased to welcome Gary to our Board of Directors," said Jack Oswald, president and CEO of RPK Security. "His experience in driving business development and his extensive industry knowledge will be extremely valuable in the next phase of growth and deployment of our Encryptonite software and FastChip encryption technology into applications like secure remote printing."

"RPK Security has now reached, on schedule, several significant milestones," said Mr. Ambrosino. "These milestones include completion of a very low cost, high-speed encryption chip, the release of the Encryptonite development platform, and continued growth in acceptance of RPK InvisiMail, the world's easiest-to-use secure E-mail add-in."  

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 14:34:03 -0800 (PST)
To: John Young 
Subject: Re: CJ Update
In-Reply-To: <199811181521.KAA16375@smtp2.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <199811182233.OAA08408@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


the CJ update is sad/interesting.

the story about the psychologist asking him about his tax
resistance or failure to file a return is a big red flag.
that's jim bell's problem. so it looks like a lot of this
is about trying to scare the bejeezus out of people who think
that paying taxes is bogus. notice how the psychologist implied
that not filing taxes or being a tax protester is a sign of
insanity.. well hell I'm sure that's what the english royalty
felt about the colonies at the time!! we have met the enemy,
and the enemy is us!!

CJ complains that letters are not getting to him, or that
his mail is being read. I propose CJ try to set up a secure
conversation with someone and establish a code with the
outside world. being a cpunk with a lot of intelligence
he will understand this  very well.   also you could even
set up codes in which you are not using actual words. but
transmitting something else that the authorities will not
interfere with, but which contains info. for example chess-by-mail
moves could conceal codes. (I heard one rumor they were censored
during WWII)

also ingenious schemes could be used to determine if you are
missing mail. CJ numbers all his letters to the outside world
and uses a single point of contact to send mail to. that person
also numbers all mail sent to CJ. CJ then knows what is not
received. both sides should catalog/inventory what they are sending/receiving.

if CJ is fighting the truth, I don't think he is wise. did he
really plant a bomb?? if so, I think it would be wise to plea
bargain on that one. CJ doesn't realize that they may have far more
knowledge about what they can get him for than he does, and he may
regret not taking a plea bargain down the road. CJ, don't try to 
be a joan-of-arc, or you might get burned at the stake.

sounds like what would be very valuable to CJ right now is a little
law books on the charge relevant to him, and maybe a book like
"defending yourself in court for dummies"


good luck CJ-- I think you will get out of the hole onto a strict
probation, like Bell..






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Gillogly 
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 17:26:12 -0800 (PST)
To: coderpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: manners and piracy
Message-ID: <365371F6.2D9A3CB0@acm.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Bernardo B. Terrado wrote:
> > Could someone give me a copy of statgraphics for dos or windows?
> > I would gladly appreciate it.

and then took issue with somebody obscenely taking him to task for
asking these lists for a pirated version of this software:

> Well I thought this list was a list of intellectuals, not only good in 
> hacks and coding and programming and the likes but also well "tailored"
> with their manners,

Bernardo, this package costs in the neighborhood of $900 US.  What makes
you think the mannered intellectuals you expect to find on these
lists would either condone or contribute to software piracy on this
scale?  Or that they would not take violent verbal objection to the
suggestion that they would do so?

Take your piracy requests elsewhere.  These aren't warez lists.
-- 
	Jim Gillogly
	29 Blotmath S.R. 1998, 01:12
	12.19.5.12.12, 4 Eb 5 Ceh, Ninth Lord of Night




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "John C" 
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 18:59:54 -0800 (PST)
To: jacket9@primenet.com
Subject: Fwd: Re: Snowball fight '98 - '99
Message-ID: <19981119025920.3377.qmail@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> GOTCHA!!!
> >                         \     |     /
> >                     \\      \  | |  /     //
> >                        \\\   \\     //  ///
> >                          \\\ ####### ///
> >                        \\##           ##//
> >                    --   ##             ##   --
> >                     --  ##   squish!!  ## --
> >                        //##           ##\\
> >                      //   ###       ###   \\
> >                         ///  ####### \\\
> >                       ///   //     \\  \\\
> >                     //      /  | |  \     \\
> >                           /     |     \
> >
> >          You have just been hit with a snow ball!
> >           >           It's the start of.....
> >           Snow Ball Fight '98/'99!!!!
> >
> >          One rule to this game....
> >          You can't hit someone who has already hit you!
> >           Now...go out there and hit as many people
> >           as you can before they get you!!
> 


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED THU NOV 19 
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 01:29:13 -0800 (PST)
To: (100S OF FREE DAILY PICS!)
Subject: STUFFED NOW HAS LINKS TO 100S MORE PHOTOS!
Message-ID: <19981119081000.5781.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Bernardo B. Terrado" 
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 16:54:10 -0800 (PST)
To: Adam Hupp 
Subject: manners....
In-Reply-To: <3653653A.1FD92C2B@students.wisc.edu>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


> Bernardo B. Terrado wrote:
> > 
> > Could someone give me a copy of statgraphics for dos or windows?
> > I would gladly appreciate it.
> > 
> > Thank you very much.
> > 
> 
> I will assume this is a piece of commercial software and respectfully
> tell you to go fuck yourself.  What kind of fucking list do you think
> this is? 

Well I thought this list was a list of intellectuals, not only good in 
hacks and coding and programming and the likes but also well "tailored"
with their manners,  I have posted similar mails asking something but I
have never received one like this. At least the less obvious thing to do
is to ignore my message, simply delete it!, is that a hard thing to do?

I have sent mails asking for something but it is OK with me if they are
ignored. 

My apologies to the list members.
Maybe it's time to REMOVE my name in the list.
Thank you.

It was nice having sent and replied by the members.
Thank you for your great help especially for the last months.











From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Bernardo B. Terrado" 
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 19:47:26 -0800 (PST)
To: Jim Gillogly 
Subject: manners and piracy
In-Reply-To: <365371F6.2D9A3CB0@acm.org>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


I don't intend to pirate anything or make someone do  it in any case.

Well anyway thank you for your reply.
What I'm trying to point out is this
  it is OK with me if you say "Take your piracy requests elsewhere" 
  it is not OK with me if you say " ...fuck yourself"

gets?

On Wed, 18 Nov 1998, Jim Gillogly wrote:

> Bernardo B. Terrado wrote:
> > > Could someone give me a copy of statgraphics for dos or windows?
> > > I would gladly appreciate it.
> 
> and then took issue with somebody obscenely taking him to task for
> asking these lists for a pirated version of this software:
> 
> > Well I thought this list was a list of intellectuals, not only good in 
> > hacks and coding and programming and the likes but also well "tailored"
> > with their manners,
> 
> Bernardo, this package costs in the neighborhood of $900 US.  What makes
> you think the mannered intellectuals you expect to find on these
> lists would either condone or contribute to software piracy on this
> scale?  Or that they would not take violent verbal objection to the
> suggestion that they would do so?
> 
> Take your piracy requests elsewhere.  These aren't warez lists.
> -- 
> 	Jim Gillogly
> 	29 Blotmath S.R. 1998, 01:12
> 	12.19.5.12.12, 4 Eb 5 Ceh, Ninth Lord of Night
> 







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: listmaster@extensis.com
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 14:05:18 -0800 (PST)
To: undisclosed-recipients:;
Subject: *QX-Tools. What Are you waiting for? 6 Stars?
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Extensis QX-Tools 4.0 Takes the Prize-again, and again, and again.
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* 5 STARS! -Computer Arts UK, November 1998 
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We have received such enthusiasm from customers and reviewers, alike-we
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list have them send an email to listmaster@extensis.com with "ADD" in the subject line and
their email address in the body.

P.P.S. This message is intended for North American customers.  If you
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local distributor in your country.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: harangi@ludens.elte.hu
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 04:52:48 -0800 (PST)
To: marco432@worldnet.att.net
Subject: YOUR  CLASSIFIED - AD / 333  NEWSPAPERS   !!!!
Message-ID: <21ED8433758@YODA.UHCOLORADO.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



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If you are a Washington resident or otherwise wish to be
removed from this list, go to global remove site if you want
your address removed from future mailing. 
http://209.84.246.162/remove.htm
 
This Global Communication has been sent to you by:
PAVILION INTERNATIONAL SERVICES
Offices:  London, Paris, Berlin, Hong Kong


















From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED FRI NOV 20 
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 03:14:11 -0800 (PST)
To: (100S OF FREE DAILY PICS!)
Subject: STUFFED NOW HAS LINKS TO 100S MORE PHOTOS!
Message-ID: <19981120081000.21237.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bullwinkle@3253137429
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 20:51:41 -0800 (PST)
To: perotrump@3253137429
Subject: Ecstasy: The way to true happiness
Message-ID: <199811210451.UAA11792@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: foreigncur@usa.net
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To: foryou_5@hotmail.com
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: strongmarketstock75bbn@worldnet.att.net
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 15:14:06 -0800 (PST)
To: smartinvestor1a@newsletter1a.net
Subject: RE:  "SIZZLER" INTERNET STOCK!
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Company: Quest Net Corp.
Symbol:  Q N E T D
Price:  3  1/2  ($3.50/share)

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BellSouth Corp. and PSINet, among others.

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BUY". 

For more information go to:  http://quote.yahoo.com





ggi.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: npusa@newpostoffice.com
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 14:17:51 -0800 (PST)
To: youngprof@yahoo.com
Subject: An Invitation To Our "Netparty" For Young Professionals
Message-ID: <36120.220947222223900.191338@localhost>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


**************************************************************
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      A Netparty is a "networking party" -- an opportunity for young 
professionals to network with each other on a business level (we 
encourage you to exchange business cards) and to interact 
with each other on a social level.  Crain's New York
Business has called networking parties "a genuinely original idea."

      Netparty events are held at Manhattan's hottest nightclubs -- but 
the music is never so loud that you cannot talk and the crowd is 
comprised entirely of young (20's, 30's, 40's) professionals.  We're 
inviting doctors, teachers and entrepreneurs, attorneys, advertising 
executives, actresses, sales professionals, writers, investment bankers 
and many other professionals to our upcoming event.  You may
feel free to forward this e-mail to others who you think may be
interested as well.  

THE NEXT NETPARTIES:
Wednesday, November 25 at Webster Hall
Friday, December 4 at The Roxy
Friday, December 11 (Location To Be Announced)
Friday, December 18 at Creation

	Our next Netparty will take place this Wednesday, November 25.  
For this event, we will be returning to the Grand Ballroom of Webster 
Hall (125 E. 11th St., between 3rd and 4th Aves.) for what we believe 
will be our biggest event of the year -- our Thanksgiving Eve Event. 
Over 1500 people are expected to attend.  In addition to networking 
opportunities, this event will feature a coffee bar, DJ and dancing.  
Doors open at 6 p.m. and you must arrive by 10 p.m to be guaranteed 
admission.  Please note that you are welcome to enjoy Webster Hall 
even after our Netparty ends -- in fact Webster Hall will be holding
a party for Jerry Springer's new movie "Ringmaster" right after our Netparty.   

	Coming in December -- more great network events at New York's 
best nightspots.  Please mark your calendars so that you might join 
us at The Roxy on Friday, December 4 and at our debut at a new 
nightspot -- "Creation" -- on Friday, December 18.  We will also 
hold an event on Friday, December 11;  however the location for 
that event has not yet been finalized.

ADMISSION, DRESS CODE, AGES

      Admission to our events is only $8 at the door.  It is not 
necessary to make a reservation, just show up!  Please note that 
for the Wednesday, November 25 Thanksgiving Eve Event at Webster 
Hall, you must arrive by 10 p.m to be guaranteed admission.  

	No jeans or sneakers are permitted at our events and business 
attire or "Friday casual" attire is requested.  You must be 21 to 
attend. The event is designed for those in their 20's, 30's and 40's; 
the majority of attendees are in their 20's and 30's.   
     
QUESTIONS?

       We are always available to answer any questions you might have.  
If you would like to e-mail us, simply write to 
npevents@newpostoffice.com.  If you should experience any problems 
in communicating with us by e-mail, or, if a quicker response to your 
question is required, please telephone us at (212) 969-0293.  

    We hope to see you this Wednesday, November 25 at Webster Hall and 
at our December Netparties.

                          
                                  -- Jeff @ Netparty


Netparty Events, PO Box 2518, New York, NY 10021 (212) 969-0293







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED SAT NOV 21 
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 01:14:51 -0800 (PST)
To: (100S OF FREE DAILY PICS!)
Subject: STUFFED NOW HAS LINKS TO 100S MORE PHOTOS!
Message-ID: <19981121081000.4944.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: strongmarketstock75bbn@worldnet.att.net
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 02:08:19 -0800 (PST)
To: smartinvestor1a@newsletter1a.net
Subject: RE:  "SIZZLER" INTERNET STOCK!
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Company: Quest Net Corp.
Symbol:  Q N E T D
Price:  3  1/2  ($3.50/share)

QNETD is a provider of global Internet and
Intranet digital networking solutions.  QNETD
has strategic alliances with MCI WorldCom, 
BellSouth Corp. and PSINet, among others.

QNETD's business model, according to independent
analysts, is projected for unprecedented exponential
growth.  QNETD is rated an immediate and "STRONG
BUY". 

For more information go to:  http://quote.yahoo.com





ggi.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: itcmex@fastnet.com.mx
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 16:31:41 -0800 (PST)
To: itcmex@fastnet.com.mx
Subject: Oportunidad de Negocio Diferente
Message-ID: <199811220128.TAA21045@mail.netmex.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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Por su tiempo  GRACIAS.
_________________________________________________________







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED SUN NOV 22 
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 01:14:57 -0800 (PST)
To: (100S OF FREE DAILY PICS!)
Subject: STUFFED NOW HAS LINKS TO 100S MORE PHOTOS!
Message-ID: <19981122081000.12042.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: sjfi@msn.com
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 20:35:29 -0800 (PST)
To: hmwrkr@aol.com
Subject: WE LOVE IT!! TRAVEL, MONEY, AND...
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



FIRE THE BOSS AND BREAK THE ALARM CLOCK!
                             WE DID!
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                               AND
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: searchmaster80@hotmail.com
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 23:55:53 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: 5000+ URL Submissions to Search Engines/Directories - $99 !!- *AD*
Message-ID: <199811230755.XAA28163@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


==========================================================
This is a one time mailing. You will be automatically removed from this list.
==========================================================

Effective web site promotion is an essential part of just about any 
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(Required to begin service)
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: marketnewstoday11_24_98iilli@worldnet.att.net
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 15:29:03 -0800 (PST)
To: investor0018@stck_news.com
Subject: RE: "SIZZLER" INTERNET STOCK!  .
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Company: Quest Net Corp.
Symbol:  Q N E T
Price:  3  1/2  ($3.50/share)

QNET is a provider of global Internet and
Intranet digital networking solutions.  QNET
has strategic alliances with MCI WorldCom, 
BellSouth Corp. and PSINet, among others.

QNET's business model, according to independent
analysts, is projected for unprecedented exponential
growth.  QNET is rated an immediate and "STRONG
BUY". 

For more information go to:
http://quicken.excite.com/investments/quotes










From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED MON NOV 23 
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 01:01:58 -0800 (PST)
To: (100S OF FREE DAILY PICS!)
Subject: STUFFED NOW HAS LINKS TO 100S MORE PHOTOS!
Message-ID: <19981123081001.20318.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: BSB009@webmail.bellsouth.com
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 14:39:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: New Book: "Brothers Beware: Games Black Women Play"
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Sisters are saying: "Burn This Book"
Brothers are saying: "Free at Last!"

You decide . . . 

Call Today To Order This Book - (800) 830-2047 
It will make a great Christmas Gift

Brothers Beware: 
Games Black Women Play 

by 
A. Marshall 
ISBN:0-9658299-3-6 
Price: $12.00 
$3 Shipping - COD Charges are FREE for a limited time. 

____________________________ 
Brothers Beware: Games Black Women Play is a book that 
pulls no punches when it details the many tricks and 
manipulative games for which black women are notorious. 

This book is an honest, no holds barred, uncensored 
discussion about dating in the African American community. 

The number of eligible black men is constantly decreasing. 
Therefore, black women are doing whatever is necessary to 
find and keep a good black man. Many of her secrets are 
exposed in this book. 

The author interviewed several black women who revealed 
many of the techniques used by Sisters to get what they 
want, and who they want, any time they want. These women 
were especially helpful on the hilarious chapter entitled: 
"Games Women Play On Each Other." 

The author had no need whatsoever to embellish - 
The TRUTH was definitely sensational enough. 

____________________________ 
Chapters 

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"What Have You Done For Me Lately?" 
"Lies Women Tell Men" 
"She's Got The Power" 
"The Dating Game" 
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"The Suicide Game" 
"Honey, I'm Pregnant" 
"She Loves Me . . . She Loves Me Not" 
"Games Church Women Play" 
"Young Women and Old Fools" 
"Games Women Play on Each Other" 
"Was It Really Worth It?" 
_______________________________
Ordering Information

Brothers Beware: 
Games Black Women Play

ISBN:0-9658299-3-6 
Price: $12.00 
$3.00 Shipping - COD Charges are free for a limited time. 
Wholesale Discounts Available 

______________________________ 
Order by Phone 
800-830-2047 - 24 hrs 






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vic" 
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 08:23:27 -0800 (PST)
To: group21@yahoo.com
Subject: ADV: All LIVE Adult Parade! Free Offer!
Message-ID: <199811241520.QAA23694@cqs.ch>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


*******************************************************
    This message is sent in compliance of the new email bill section
301. per Section 301, Paragraph (a)(2)(C) of S. 1618, further
transmissions to you by the sender of this email may be stopped at no
cost to you by emailing mailto:wjohns@tophosting.com Please type
"Remove" in the subject line.Your request to be remove will be
processed within 24 hours.

Please DO NOT reply to this email if you wish to be removed.
--------------------------------------------------------

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: STUFFED TUE NOV 24 
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 03:08:05 -0800 (PST)
To: (100S OF FREE DAILY PICS!)
Subject: STUFFED NOW HAS LINKS TO 100S MORE PHOTOS!
Message-ID: <19981124081000.4856.qmail@eureka.abc-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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+ THE NUDE FILES
+ 2 PERVERSE 4 U
+ NUDE PICS
+ MUCH, MUCH MORE!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----

This  email  is  never  sent  unsolicited.  Stuffed  is  the
supplement for the Eureka newsletter you subscribed to. Full
instructions on unsubscribing  are in every issue of Eureka!

       ---->   http://stuffed.net/home/   <----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Maxim Bugaenko 
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 10:21:04 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: unscribe
Message-ID: <365B0981.966548AE@192.168.100.6>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: K1cZS9PLE@ps.quotron.com
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 21:07:29 -0800 (PST)
To: personal@touch.com
Subject: Call my Bedroom Directly ! ! ! ! ! !
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


If you don't want me to Contact you again,
Alas, please Write me at sorry@chickmail.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Call My Bedroom Directly!!! DO it with me in MY BED!!!

CALL me NOW Before My Parents COME HOME!!!

My Phone Number is 1-664-410-3282.


Judy

(Any Guy 18 or over only, please. I don't want to get into any trouble!)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

P.S.  Some of you may wanna call my brother's bedroom.
(I think he's gay, but I'm not sure.)


It's 1-664-410-4403

Call him now! BUT don't tell him you get this from me. Okay?!!!!!






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Carol Moore 
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 18:37:08 -0800 (PST)
To: "lpus-camp@dehnbase.org>
Subject: Y2K Privatization Opportunities
In-Reply-To: <273792.365B0B1E@dehnbase.org>
Message-ID: <365B6C0C.7016E77@kreative.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Libertarians:

Whatever the extent of Y2K related problems that actually develops, there is one
thing for certain: The private sector will be up and running smoothly before much
of the government sector.  Y2K will be a fantastic opportunity to promote and
achieve privatization. So let's start planning for taking advantage of that
opportunity and stop arguing about how bad it will or will not be.

Somebody want to start the "Y2K Privatization Coalition"??

CarolMoore@kreative.net
http://www.kreative.net/carolmoore





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: coins@registered-e-mail.com
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 10:27:51 -0800 (PST)
To: advertiser@sosglb.com
Subject: Why should I buy Gold Coins?
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
If you wish to be removed from our future mailings, please reply
with "Remove" in the subject header and our software will automatically
block you from our future mailings.  If you do not care for this type of advertising,
 we apologize for the intrusion.   We do, however, thank you for your time.
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Many serious investors have chosen Coins because they want not only the 
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Whether your interest is to Buy, Sell or Trade, we would like to be your 
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and/or Newsletter, please e-mail us at coins@registered-e-mail.com with "coin info" as the Subject.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: za@fz.ml.org
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 02:43:28 -0800 (PST)
To: 000mandy00@m0bey.com
Subject: Cheap Travel Service
Message-ID: <199811291036.AA20605@scooby.stat.uconn.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



This message complies with the PROPOSED United States Federal requirements for commercial
email bill, Section 301. For additional info see: 
www.senate.gov~murkowski/commercialemail/EMailAmendText.html
Required Sender Information:SDCT,6006 Greenbelt Ed, Suite 
340, Greenbelt, MD Per Section 301, Paragraph (a)(2)(C) of S. 1618, further transmissions to 
you by the sender of this email may be stopped at no cost to you by clicking 

To be taken off our list please hit reply and
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: stocknews11_5_98iil@worldnet.att.net
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 15:31:10 -0800 (PST)
To: smartinvestor98i@newsletterb.com
Subject: RE: URGENT BUY ALERT!!
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Company:  Mark I Industries
Symbol:   M K I I   (mkii)
Price:    1/4  ($.25/share)

M K I I  has announced an affiliation with one of 
their subsidiaries and AT&T.  Management projects
a $100 million revenue goal at their current rate
of growth with "the company's stock to trade in
the $4 range".

M K I I is rated an immediate and "STRONG BUY".
For more information on  M K I I go to:
http://quote.yahoo.com











From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Hugh Daniel 
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 12:58:32 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks-announce@toad.com
Subject: ANNOUNCE: SATURDAY Bay Area Cypherpunks Meeting - Stanford University
Message-ID: <199811122056.MAA15098@road.toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


The November Cypherpunks Meeting will be Saturday 11/14 from 1-5pm
at Stanford, at the tables outside Tresidder Union, near the bookstore.
The tables are on the west side, which is the inside of the U-shape.  
Coffee and food are available in the building. 
If the weather is uncooperative, we will also be inside the building.

Lucky Green will be talking about his latest work.
Hugh Daniel will update us on the new alpha of Linux FreeS/WAN.

Bagels and Bagel Parephrenalia will be provided.

Directions to Stanford Tresidder Hall
	Stanford is between El Camino Real and Junipero Serra Blvd,
	which are between 101 and 280.  The Tresidder Parking Lot
	is on Mayfield Ave, off Campus Drive East.

http://www.stanford.edu/home/map/search_map.html?keyword=&ACADEMIC=Tresidder+Union
http://www.stanford.edu/home/map/stanford_zoom_map.html?234,312

The upside-down map of Stanford&Vicinity is at
http://www.stanford.edu/home/visitors/vicinity.html

				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 01143572@amdiscount.net
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 14:53:29 -0800 (PST)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: Confidential Scanner Service
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


CONFIDENTIAL SCANNING SERVICE

First item scanned $5.00. Second item scanned $4.00.  Each additional item scanned $3.00

We will scan and send file to your e-mail address within 24 hours after receipt.
If you would like your photo returned you must enclose a self addressed and stamped envelope

Files should be checked as soon as possible for your satisfaction. All photos received without directions for return will be destroyed after 10 days
We accept Master Card ,Visa, Cash or Money Order  (no checks) 
Required Information

E-mail address_____________________

Save as _________________File (Gif or JPEG) for the web or (TIF) for artwork.

Required information for mature or adult photos

I AM 18 YEARS OF AGE OR OVER AND THERE ARE NO PERSONS IN THESE PHOTOS UNDER 18 YEARS OF AGE.

Signed by:____________________________________________

Required information for credit card

MC_____ Visa_____  Card #________________________Expiration_____________

Name of cardholder____________________________________________________

Address _____________________________________________________________

City_______________________________ST_________ZIP________________

Mail form and payment or payment information to:
American Discount Services
8515 Douglas Suite 32
Des Moines, IA  50322

For additonal information call 515-270-9651





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: stockmarketupdate1998iktrmjy@mci.com
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1998 23:51:16 -0800 (PST)
To: hsmartinvestor@aol.com
Subject: RE: MAJOR "BUY" ALERT
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Company: Internet Stock Market Resources
Symbol:  I S M R
Price:   1 3/4  ($1.75/share)

The venerated German brokerage house, Bentegestgautgen
Financials has issued a "STRONG BUY" on I S M R
with a target price of  $8.50.

I S M R is the leader of financial on-line information
and is currently profitable.  I S M R has a public float of only
300,000 shares.  For more information on I S M R go to: 
http://quicken.excite.com/investments/quotes/






ctl.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: strongintstock4j3s@mci.com
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 06:57:32 -0800 (PST)
To: smarket@snewsletter.net
Subject: RE:  "SIZZLER" INTERNET STOCK!
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Company: Quest Net Corp.
Symbol:  Q N E T D
Price:  2 1/2  ($2.50/share)

QNETD is a provider of global Internet and
Intranet digital networking solutions.  QNETD
has strategic alliances with MCI WorldCom, 
BellSouth Corp. and PSINet, among others.

QNETD's business model, according to independent
analysts, is projected for unprecedented exponential
growth.  QNETD is rated an immediate and "STRONG
BUY". 

For more information go to:  http://quote.yahoo.com






gg.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: strongmarketstock75bbn@worldnet.att.net
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 15:14:06 -0800 (PST)
To: smartinvestor1a@newsletter1a.net
Subject: RE:  "SIZZLER" INTERNET STOCK!
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Company: Quest Net Corp.
Symbol:  Q N E T D
Price:  3  1/2  ($3.50/share)

QNETD is a provider of global Internet and
Intranet digital networking solutions.  QNETD
has strategic alliances with MCI WorldCom, 
BellSouth Corp. and PSINet, among others.

QNETD's business model, according to independent
analysts, is projected for unprecedented exponential
growth.  QNETD is rated an immediate and "STRONG
BUY". 

For more information go to:  http://quote.yahoo.com





ggi.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: strongmarketstock75bbn@worldnet.att.net
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 02:08:19 -0800 (PST)
To: smartinvestor1a@newsletter1a.net
Subject: RE:  "SIZZLER" INTERNET STOCK!
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Company: Quest Net Corp.
Symbol:  Q N E T D
Price:  3  1/2  ($3.50/share)

QNETD is a provider of global Internet and
Intranet digital networking solutions.  QNETD
has strategic alliances with MCI WorldCom, 
BellSouth Corp. and PSINet, among others.

QNETD's business model, according to independent
analysts, is projected for unprecedented exponential
growth.  QNETD is rated an immediate and "STRONG
BUY". 

For more information go to:  http://quote.yahoo.com





ggi.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: marketnewstoday11_24_98iilli@worldnet.att.net
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 15:29:03 -0800 (PST)
To: investor0018@stck_news.com
Subject: RE: "SIZZLER" INTERNET STOCK!  .
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Company: Quest Net Corp.
Symbol:  Q N E T
Price:  3  1/2  ($3.50/share)

QNET is a provider of global Internet and
Intranet digital networking solutions.  QNET
has strategic alliances with MCI WorldCom, 
BellSouth Corp. and PSINet, among others.

QNET's business model, according to independent
analysts, is projected for unprecedented exponential
growth.  QNET is rated an immediate and "STRONG
BUY". 

For more information go to:
http://quicken.excite.com/investments/quotes










From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 08:35:08 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Old Hat 2
Message-ID: <199811302325.AAA15856@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Here's what is likely going on right now, though its
availability to LE is questionable:

NSA probably maintains surveillance of all or nearly all
encrypted remailers. They log and archive the content of
all traffic. First arrivals of messages in the remailer
"cloud" provide source identification in many cases, so
a database is gradually built of all the originating
email addresses and IP addresses that have ever sent
messages to a remailer. The same is true for the messages
exiting the cloud, although many of those go to public
lists or newsgroups. Sometimes, perhaps even often, the
remailer cloud is so little utilised that one-hop or even
multi-hop chained remalings are easily identified as to
source and final destination. All goes into the database.
Spook-style stylometers develop profiles of the users.
Over time, more and more of the unidentified profiles
become linked to known users. All it takes is one slip,
or one piece of bad luck of low traffic levels. Linkage
is also done on a probabilistic basis, many-to-many.
Little human intervention is used except to develop and
tune the correlation mechanisms. Filters aimed at content
that might help correlate messages with senders is more 
important to the spooks than Echelon Dictionary filters.
The priorities in getting a handle on something like the
remailer cloud are quite different than the priorities in
scanning ordinary traffic for content. Ultimately, though,
the regular content filters come into play, but in this
ongoing exercise of cat and mouse, the bulk of the effort
is directed at developing the combination of surveillance
and intelligent processing that can provide the basis for
identifying, at least to some knowable probability, the
sources and destinations of given remailer messages.

Source and destination correlation can benefit greatly
from knowledge of conventional email correspondent 
relationships. Most nonprofessional-spook people who send 
encrypted remailed email to a non-public destination are 
also likely to correspond with that destination in the 
clear. Archival logging of traffic is like a time machine -
even if one ceases conventional correspondence with
another, any past traffic can reveal the correspondence
relationship.

Mathematical correlation, given a very large amount of raw
data consisting of timestamped message events, can reveal
quite a lot about likely correspondence relationships.
Even given a remailer network full of chaff, with reordered
message pools and such, just running correlations on the
end point data - who sent and when, and who received and when
- can develop likely correspondent pairs.

Be assured that the manipulation of such data relies heavily
on probablistic clustering supported by database mechanisms
not seen much in business environments. Instead of having
firm relationships within an order or two of magnitude of
the terminal node population, I would want something that
allows having very large numbers of fuzzy relationships
numbering many orders of magnitude greater than the node
population. Nodes A, B, C and D send and receive remailer
traffic. Everything that A has ever sent is clearly
related to A, but each item can and likely would also
have a probabilistic relationship to B, C, and D. The
probability assignments would be updated as later analysis
and later data more clearly identify who may have received 
which messages. Content comes into play here, too.

At any time it is possible to query the database for
the likely correspondents of A, and the likely messages
A may have sent to B, C, or D, and get a result ordered
by confidence. Similarly, it is possible to query for
the likely sender(s) and recipient(s) of a given message.
Occasionally, data may be firmed up - meaning achieving 
higher confidence levels of the relationships - by access 
to someone's PC, by whatever means, by stylometry, by 
specific content of public messages, and by fortuitous 
traffic analysis successes owing to the paucity of remailer 
traffic.

It's also certain that to provide realistic cases that can
be fully revealed to measure the efficacy of the various
algorithms and methods involved, spooks use the remailer
network themselves. That's the only way they can be sure
to have any traffic that can be fully analyzed as a yardstick
for the guessing games played by their software.

A few rules of thumb result from even cursory examination
of the likely environment:

1. Do not send clear messages through the remailers 
   except to public lists and newsgroups. Sending clear
   messages to private correspondents provides the 
   watchers with rich style and content material linked
   to a correspondent. It is usually easy then to link
   it back to you, and a firm correspondent pair is then
   established in their database.

2. Do not switch between clear and encrypted, remailed 
   communication with the same correspondent. If your
   correspondent relationships are mapped via clear,
   conventional mail, those mappings can be applied to
   your encrypted, remailed mail to greatly narrow 
   down the possible recipients, and quite likely 
   combine with traffic analysis to correlate your
   outgoing message with one arriving at your
   correspondent. If the only communications you have
   with your deep contacts is by encrypted, chained
   remailer, only fortuitous or statistical correlation
   analysis or access to your or your correspondent's
   host machines will tie the two of you together.

3. Do not send traffic to significant correspondents
   when traffic levels are likely to be low. Good
   luck at guessing this. Probably the best way to
   get a handle on traffic levels is to run a remailer
   yourself.

4. Send lots of chaff. Chain some messages through the
   remailer cloud every day. If you have time and the
   ability, write and release something that will allow
   large numbers of people to send lots of chaff.

5. Ultimately, the only way the remailers will provide
   what might be described as Pretty Good Security will
   be when we have software that maintains a regular
   or random rate of messages to and from the remailer
   cloud, a stream into which the meaningful messages
   can be inserted with no visible change in traffic.
   Until then, the best we can do is try to keep traffic
   levels up, and to send and receive frequently enough
   to frustrate end-to-end traffic analysis.

6. Don't send anything that can have grave consequences.

7. Take names. Always take names. Some day...

FUDBusterMonger

It Ain't FUD til I SAY it's FUD!




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Marcel Popescu" 
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 07:29:15 +0800
To: "HaB" 
Subject: Re: more FUD!
Message-ID: <001701be1cb2$85869a20$LocalHost@DEVELOP>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




-----Original Message-----
From: HaB 
To: 
Date: marţi, 01 decembrie 1998 01:46
Subject: Re: more FUD!


>First time poster.  Been reading for awhile now and I feel like a goof
>for having to ask, but what does FUD stand for anyway?

Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt. Alleged technique of large companies to make
people think twice before buying products from lesser companies by casting
doubt over the reliability of the product and its creator. Thinking twice is
known to be a Bad Thing. 

Mark







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Carol Anne Cypherpunk 
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 16:54:21 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: New Brady Bill Implications
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19981201022809.00743bf4@pop.primenet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I'm watching Headline News, and they are reporting
that "now", under new provisions in the Brady Bill,
and 'instant' background check is being made. This
even is for simple rifles and shotguns.

Just think, soon there might be 'instant' background
checks, even just to use simple 56 bit DES. Or somewhere
lurking around in your browser code, a teeny tiny program
that sends a cookie to the NSA, FBI, etc every time you
use crypto. Who knows, it's probably there already.

Or a realtime NCIS check to buy a copy of PGP! Wild!

cab8
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP Personal Privacy 6.0
Comment: PGP 6.0 is the "The Living End".

iQA/AwUBNmOomDiM2656VXArEQLQRQCgg3l0PO8DOzkj/7McAUI8gQSC03cAnRhk
AybC39FkOKoV7ZQUvJcuFTT8
=9sxR
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Member Internet Society  - Certified Mining Co. Guide  -  Webmistress
***********************************************************************
Carol Anne Braddock (cab8)  carolann@censored.org   206.165.50.96
http://www.primenet.com/~carolab
http://www.ozones.com/~drozone - The Cyberdoc
***********************************************************************
Will lobby Congress for Food & Expenses!!!




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 10:34:50 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: student project suggestion; PGP trap and trace
Message-ID: <199812010207.DAA22493@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Given: if the adversary captures your PGP keyring, he
will know your contacts.  Your secure contacts.  

Therefore: it would be mighty nice if access to your
keyring's address list required a passphrase (which
perhaps was valid for several hours, it being a pain
to retype a decent passphrase).

You will note that the PGP plugins for Eudora allow
any buffoon with access to your machine to discover
who you talk to securely.

--Laced aliens fried my pugs











  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 11:27:36 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199812010220.DAA25133@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Subject: naughty bits


At 12:25 AM 12/1/98 +0100, Anonymous wrote:
>NSA probably maintains surveillance of all or nearly all
>encrypted remailers. They log and archive the content of

Well shit yes, I pay enough taxes, you bet they do, or I'm
not getting my fucking dollars worth.

I only send via anon when I care only about the honest readers'
opinion.  Like I'd send dangerous shit over the IP.  May
as well fax it plaintext to the Ukraine.  Bwah hah hah.

If you were really going to pull a prank, you'd create
a one-shot yahoo/hotmail/etc account from a cafe then
wipe that platter clean (both FAT and lean).

---If your Correlators have pegged me, well, hello.  Nice game.
















  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 11:52:21 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199812010320.EAA00631@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Perhaps of interest to locals...


                EE380 Computer Systems Colloquium

                      Fall Quarter 1998-1999

                          Lecture #10


Date:           Wednesday, Dec 2, 1998

Time:           4:15-5:30 pm

Location:       NEC Auditorium (B03)
                Gates Computer Science Building

Internet:       Live on the Net!  See instructions on the Web page
                http://www-leland.stanford.edu/class/ee380

  **********************************************************************

Title:          Cracking the Data Encryption Standard: 
                Technology, Design, and Politics

Speaker:        John Gilmore
                The Electronic Frontier Foundation

About the talk:

Sometimes it takes good engineering to straighten out twisted politics.  

In 1997, working in conjunction with the Electronic Frontier Foundation, 
John Gilmore decided to demonstrate this by building a custom computer 
that would be able to solve the Data Encryption Standard, an encoding 
scheme the United States Government had been promoting for "secure" 
business and financial communications since the 1970s.  

It had long been suspected the Government was pressing citizens to use 
this standard because its intelligence agencies were secretly able to 
decode DES-encrypted messages.  It appears this theory was right.  
DES *was* crackable -- easily and affordably -- which Mr. Gilmore 
demonstrated in July, 1998 by using his "DES Cracker" system to solve in 
less than three days a coded message that had been produced as part of a 
DES-decryption contest.  

In this presentation Mr. Gilmore will discuss the design of the DES 
Cracker system and explain some of the politics surrounding the DES 
controversy.  

Note:  A full description of the DES Cracker system, including complete 
hardware and software design details, appears in the book, "Cracking 
DES: Secrets of Encryption Research, Wiretap Politics, & Chip Design," 
published by O'Reilly.  Further details can also be found at:

          http://www.eff.org/descracker/ 

About the speaker:

John Gilmore is an entrepreneur and civil libertarian.  He was an early 
employee of Sun Microsystems, and co-founded Cygnus Solutions, the 
Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF), the Cypherpunks, and the 
Internet's "alt" newsgroups.  He has twenty-five years of experience in 
the computer industry, including programming, hardware and software 
design, management, and investment, and is a significant contributor to 
the worldwide open source (free software) development effort.  

Mr. Gilmore's advocacy efforts on encryption policy aim to improve 
public understanding of this fundamental technology for privacy and 
accountability in open societies.  He led the team that built, in 
conjunction with the EFF, the world's first published DES Cracker.  He 
is a board member of the Internet Society and the Electronic Frontier 
Foundation.  

Further background information may be found at: 

          http://www.cygnus.com/~gnu/ 


Contact information:

John Gilmore
gnu@toad.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 19:32:40 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: Jim Bell Update
Message-ID: <199812011101.GAA14156@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Forward No. 1 (11/30/98):

Jim has been back in the Seattle/Tacoma jail for about a week & 1/2, 
after a stop-over in Oklahoma City.   Not doing much, but is glad to be 
back because he likes the food better and he has things to do, unlike 
in Springfield.

He doesn't know what the schedule is for his stay at this point, except 
that there is an attempt to impose more time to his sentence, which he 
says by the time they accomplish anything in court he will have fulfilled 
anyway.

He requests once again that anyone who would like to help him research
the names/addresses of people he thinks are involved in the surveillance 
efforts against him, to please contact him.

His address again is:

	James Bell #26906086
    Federal Detention Center
    P.O. Box 68976
    Seattle WA 98168

----------

Forward No. 2 (11/30/98):

After spending several weeks in Oklahoma, then several more in 
Springfield, MO, a shrink interviewed Jim for a total of six hours, and 
said he could find nothing wrong that they could help with.  After 
several more weeks in Springfield, it was back to Oklahoma, for a 
couple more weeks, and now he is finally back at Sea-Tac.

He reports that the prosecutor is asking for 9 months for violation 
of parole, which would mean Jim might be released in 3 months.  
He is on Prozac and seems in pretty good spirits.  Opinions seem 
unchanged.

----------





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 19:32:49 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: CJ Update
Message-ID: <199812011102.GAA10440@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Forward (11/26/98):

They moved CJ from Springfield on the 18th. He is in Oklahoma City 
awaiting  movement supposedly next week. I talked with him and he 
sounded okay. He would like to receive copies of what has been written 
and posted about him. He doen't know  where he is going. His lawyer 
should find out next week.








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: HyperReal-Anon 
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 16:22:45 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: somebody clue this person in please!
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Ken Williams  wrote:

>i'm laughing too damned hard to do it myself.

>In a message dated 11/30/98 10:15:50 AM EST, jkwilli2@unity.ncsu.edu writes:
>
>> Get Your Private, Free, Encrypted Email at http://www.nsa.gov
>
>I looked around there site and couldnt find anything about geting a e-mail
>could you please be more specific.

Why do you find this such a surprise? This is typical behavior for 
AOLholes. We've all tried for years to clue such lamers in, and all 
we've ever gotten in return are more "solicited" spam, and more unsolicited 
spam, and it's worse because they're no longer concentrated at one site.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Steve Schear 
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 04:17:26 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: New Brady Bill Implications
In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19981201022809.00743bf4@pop.primenet.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>I'm watching Headline News, and they are reporting
>that "now", under new provisions in the Brady Bill,
>and 'instant' background check is being made. This
>even is for simple rifles and shotguns.

How does this affect private, that is non-dealer, gun sales (like at swap
meets)?

--Steve






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mok-Kong Shen 
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 17:10:12 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: SternFUD on RSA
In-Reply-To: <199812010235.UAA19311@wire.insync.net>
Message-ID: <3663AB6D.7ABCE704@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Eric Cordian wrote:

> > 3. The court didn't uphold a patent on applied math; it upheld a
> > process patent on a crypto system that, among other things, uses
> > applied math. So does almost any engineering design.
> 
> There is a fundamental difference between a physical machine whose
> design required the use of mathematics, and an abstract mathematical
> transformation, which may exist only in an instance of some computer
> program performing a certain task.

I am not taking part in this debate but simply like to point to the
fact that the creteria of what is patentable appear to be undergoing
some change. One illustrative example is that DNA sequences can
currently be patented as far as I know.

M. K. Shen




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Duncan Frissell 
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 23:45:02 +0800
To: Bill Stewart 
Subject: Re: Securing data in memory (was "Locking physical memory (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <366086B6.2E880D74@brd.ie>
Message-ID: <199812011458.JAA13450@mail1.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 09:22 PM 11/29/98 -0500, Bill Stewart wrote:
>Yeah - it can be quite nice to do that, both for security and speed.
>Hugh Daniel's done some work on making Unix run on systems with 
>read-only root drives - there are some SCSI drives which support
>read-only mode again, and there are PCMCIA flash cards which have
>write-protect switches and look like disks to the OS, 
>so you can set them up the way you want and then go to read-only.

Unix has been ported to memory only systems including the Palm OS (using
virtual drives) but you can't do much with it at this point.

http://ryeham.ee.ryerson.ca/uClinux/

"The Linux/Microcontroller project is a port of the Linux 2.0 to systems
without a Memory Management Unit. At present, only Motorola MC68000
derivatives are supported. The first target system to sucessfully boot is
the 3Com PalmPilot with a TRG SuperPilot Board and a custom boot loader
they put together specifically for the Linux/PalmPilot port. Thanks guys!"

DCF




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 04:29:07 +0800
To: nobody@replay.com (Anonymous)
Subject: Re: NZ or LA in Y2K
In-Reply-To: <199812011551.QAA03245@replay.com>
Message-ID: <199812011651.KAA07541@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Anonymous wrote:
> At 07:54 PM 11/30/98 -3000, Igor Chudov @ home wrote:
> >
> >But objectively, there is a large category of people who are bored
> >with their current lifestyle and gleefully expect a "total breakdown"
> >of the society so that they could shoot live man sized targets instead
> >of boring paper targets.
> >
> >They are likely to be disappointed by Y2K, or so I expect. (again,
> >my expectation that social breakdown is not likely to happen does
> >not preclude me from reasonable preparations)
> 
> When the power goes out, the rioting and looting starts
> in the cities.  (This isn't New Zealand, baby, this is LA)

You are missing my point.

Yes, it is possible that if power goes out, looting might occur.

I am now considering another possibility: what happens if the power DOES
NOT go out? What would the gunnuts do? Or, if the power does go out but
looting does not start, would the gunnuts shoot some blacks that they
mistake for "looters" but who are just walking down the streets?

> When the rioters get bored, they'll get into cars.
> When they run out of gas, they'll stay where they are stranded
> as the gas pumps don't work.  Some fine huntin' then, bubba.
> 
>    Mr. Moisin-Nagant

That's Mosin-Nagant.

	- Igor.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 05:01:32 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: y2k+oil refineries
Message-ID: <199812012012.MAA03042@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



a disturbing post on the idea that maybe embedded systems
in refineries are so "embedded" they can't even be reached/
isolated. also hugely ubiquitous....

------- Forwarded Message


> 
> Gary North's Y2K Links and Forums
> 
>  1998-11-30 13:28:22
> Subject:
>  Fuel Production Plants
> Comment:
>  Let's hope this informant is wrong. If you have counter-evidence, contact me
> at P. O. Box 8000, Tyler, TX 75711.
> 
> * * * * * * * *
> 
> I have one very, very reliable source within that industry who tells me that
> the oil refining industry can't cope with the task. I am told that the problem
> of embedded systems can NOT be fixed EVER, no matter how much time were
> allowed. WHY? Because the refineries themselves would have to be dismantled to
> uncover these embedded systems. Essentially, the refineries would have to be
> destroyed and rebuilt!!! These embedded systems are buried within enclosed
> systems. Identifying, testing and replacing these systems is too impractical.
> It is financially unsound to do so. The better option is to build new ones.
> There is no time to do this with less than 400 days left and the time to build
> a new refinery is 3 to 5 years.
> 
> So, what does this mean? My sources, especially the most reliable source tell
> me that it means that on January 1, 2000... the oil and gas refineries will
> cease operations. These facilities also have converted their inventory
> management control systems to small inventory levels so that inventory levels
> are running about 1 to 2 days capacity. A few years ago, the industry averaged
> a 1 to 6 month supply in storage tanks. Not so today.
> 
> The results: By 1/5/2000 there will be no gasoline, no diesel fuel, no natural
> gas, no heating oil, no fuel oil products at all. This means trains will have
> no fuel. Trucks will have no fuel. Cars will have no fuel. Electric Power
> Plants will have no oil for fuel, nor coal... because there will be no fuel to
> power the vehicles to get it to them. So, there will be no electricity. And
> you know the remaining domino schematic from that point.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 06:06:40 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: New Brady Bill Implications
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 11:40 AM -0800 12/1/98, Declan McCullagh wrote:
>It does not affect sale of firearms by non-dealers (non-FFL holders). Look
>for the Clinton administration to try to change this; at a press conference
>today the DC reporter rat-pack was moaning about unregulated gun shows.
>
>It does affect non-sale transfers by FFLs. Per the DoJ rule: "NICS checks
>apply to transfers and are not limited to firearm sales."
>
>I have an article up at www.wired.com shortly about the privacy implications.
>
>-Declan

I'm staying out of this latest round of Brady Bill stuff...as this is very,
very old news. Anyone just now realizing that an "Instant Check" system is
being deployed has been asleep under a rock for the last few years.

And I'm staying away from Igor Chudov's rants about "gunnuts" [sic].

As for the privacy implications of the instant check system, I abandoned
the NRA a few years ago when it began pushing this instant check system
(and also when some of its leaders were lukewarm in their support of gun
rights). It was obvious that it would lead to a fully computerized gun
registration system, as indeed it has...duh! The NRA claimed it would not,
but now they are busy getting ready to sue the FBI and other law enforcment
agencies to force them not to retain the information they get from the
instant check system. Duh, again. (This was all foreseeable to anyone with
half a brain.)

The country now has the beginnings of a national gun registration system,
courtesy of such "useful idiots" as the National Rifle Association.

As for who buys guns and the core of the whole debate, there's a simple,
logical, compelling, and constitutional solution:

Either someone is in prison or jail or otherwise under incarceration, or he
is not. If he is in prison, his guns and lots of other things are not
available to him.

Once he is out of prison, and is no longer under incarceration, all of his
constitutional rights are restored to him. The First Amendment rights of
free speech and free practice of religion, the Third Amendment right not to
have troops quartered in his home. The Fourth Amendment right about lawful
searches. The Fifth Amendment right about compelled testimony. The Sixth
Amendment right about jury trials. And so on.

Oh, and of course the Second Amendment.

There is no constitutional support that I can find that says the government
can, for example, require ex-felons to get permission slips to speak out,
that can require them to renounce certain religions, etc.

And no support, constitutionally, for denying them Second Amendment rights.

Sure, there may be _pragmatic_ reasons...we don't want these evil felons
like Bill Clinton having guns, speaking freely, going to Baptist Bible
camps, etc.

But wanting something and getting it, constitutionally, are entirely
different things.

Seen this way, there is no need for any kind of instant check. Nor does the
Constitution support the notion that the Second, or First, or Third, etc.,
rights depend on applying for a permit, getting a license, producing a
valid ID and Social Security Number, or any of the modern baggage attached
to such things.

Gun sales should be as they once were: you plunk your money down and walk
out with a gun. You don't need no steenking badges, licenses, permission
slips, approvals from your psychiatrist, training classes, or evidence of
some special need.

Felons should either be in prison or restored to their full rights after
doing their time.

--Tim May

"I swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, just the way the President did."
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 04:23:44 +0800
To: Steve Schear 
Message-ID: <199812011936.LAA23593@smtp.well.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



It does not affect sale of firearms by non-dealers (non-FFL holders). Look
for the Clinton administration to try to change this; at a press conference
today the DC reporter rat-pack was moaning about unregulated gun shows.

It does affect non-sale transfers by FFLs. Per the DoJ rule: "NICS checks
apply to transfers and are not limited to firearm sales."

I have an article up at www.wired.com shortly about the privacy implications.

-Declan




At 09:40 AM 12-1-98 -0800, Steve Schear wrote:
>>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>Hash: SHA1
>>
>>I'm watching Headline News, and they are reporting
>>that "now", under new provisions in the Brady Bill,
>>and 'instant' background check is being made. This
>>even is for simple rifles and shotguns.
>
>How does this affect private, that is non-dealer, gun sales (like at swap
>meets)?
>
>--Steve
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 00:38:49 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: NZ or LA in Y2K
Message-ID: <199812011551.QAA03245@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




At 07:54 PM 11/30/98 -3000, Igor Chudov @ home wrote:
>
>But objectively, there is a large category of people who are bored
>with their current lifestyle and gleefully expect a "total breakdown"
>of the society so that they could shoot live man sized targets instead
>of boring paper targets.
>
>They are likely to be disappointed by Y2K, or so I expect. (again,
>my expectation that social breakdown is not likely to happen does
>not preclude me from reasonable preparations)

When the power goes out, the rioting and looting starts
in the cities.  (This isn't New Zealand, baby, this is LA)

When the rioters get bored, they'll get into cars.
When they run out of gas, they'll stay where they are stranded
as the gas pumps don't work.  Some fine huntin' then, bubba.

   Mr. Moisin-Nagant












  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 09:24:29 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: New Brady Bill Implications
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 3:04 PM -0800 12/1/98, Frederick Burroughs wrote:
>Tim May wrote:
>
>>  As for the privacy implications of the instant check system, I abandoned
>> the NRA a few years ago when it began pushing this instant check system
>> (and also when some of its leaders were lukewarm in their support of gun
>> rights). It was obvious that it would lead to a fully computerized gun
>> registration system, as indeed it has...duh! The NRA claimed it would not,
>> but now they are busy getting ready to sue the FBI and other law enforcment
>> agencies to force them not to retain the information they get from the
>> instant check system. Duh, again. (This was all foreseeable to anyone with
>> half a brain.)
>
>The NRA is claiming that the database of citizens who purchase guns legally is
>prohibited by the Brady Bill. FBI claims it will be used for statistical
>purposes
>only. What will the statistics be used for? In the near future, we might
>expect
>anyone with more than 0.5 brain (among other handicaps) to fail the
>instant check.
>Ahh, now I see why they call it the Brady Bill (sincere apologies to Mr.
>Brady).


Yes, statistical purposes only. Like the way the Census data are used for
statistical purposes only...except when used to round up those with
Japanese-sounding names.

(Pity in 1940 they weren't demanding that "race" be specified, as they now
do. Would've made finding all the Matsuis and Toyotas a bit easier.)

Here in California we have had computerized checks for many years, and now
the Dealer's Record of Sale (DROS) is almost always transmitted
electronically to the state capital. (One dealer said California will soon
"phase out" paper-based forms, and even small dealers will have to get
computerized.)

The effect is that a data base of gun owners is growing. "Guns: Negative"
and "Guns: Positive" are heard over police scanners (an illegal act, to
listen) as units roll up to residences. They check with the central data
base. Eric Blair is spinning.

--Tim May


"I swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, just the way the President did."
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Frank O'Dwyer" 
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 04:17:40 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Securing data in memory (was "Locking physical memory (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <19981130180002.17576.qmail@nym.alias.net>
Message-ID: <36642CC3.6D70A65B@brd.ie>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



lcs Mixmaster Remailer wrote:
> Most PCs today are not well balanced architecturally.  They should
> really have a couple hundred megabytes of memory.  Memory is cheap
> enough today that this can be added, but the motherboard configuration
> may limit the amount.  If you had this much memory, swapping to disk
> would be a smaller problem.

Unless you're running NT. I have a box with NT server and 256MB RAM, and
I'm pretty sure about 100MB of that has never seen any data. The disk
still rattles away, even though the machine is typically left switched
on. For example, if you run Word, log out, then run Word again, it still
seems to go for the disk. 

Cheers,
Frank O'Dwyer.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Frederick Burroughs 
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 07:43:03 +0800
To: Cypherpunks 
Subject: Re: New Brady Bill Implications
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <366475F0.DD6CAA9F@shentel.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





Tim May wrote:

>  As for the privacy implications of the instant check system, I abandoned
> the NRA a few years ago when it began pushing this instant check system
> (and also when some of its leaders were lukewarm in their support of gun
> rights). It was obvious that it would lead to a fully computerized gun
> registration system, as indeed it has...duh! The NRA claimed it would not,
> but now they are busy getting ready to sue the FBI and other law enforcment
> agencies to force them not to retain the information they get from the
> instant check system. Duh, again. (This was all foreseeable to anyone with
> half a brain.)

The NRA is claiming that the database of citizens who purchase guns legally is
prohibited by the Brady Bill. FBI claims it will be used for statistical purposes
only. What will the statistics be used for? In the near future, we might expect
anyone with more than 0.5 brain (among other handicaps) to fail the instant check.
Ahh, now I see why they call it the Brady Bill (sincere apologies to Mr. Brady).




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 08:48:52 +0800
To: Tim May 
Message-ID: <199812020013.QAA20073@smtp.well.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 01:14 PM 12-1-98 -0800, Tim May wrote:
>As for the privacy implications of the instant check system, I abandoned
>the NRA a few years ago when it began pushing this instant check system
>(and also when some of its leaders were lukewarm in their support of gun
>rights). It was obvious that it would lead to a fully computerized gun
>registration system, as indeed it has...duh! The NRA claimed it would not,
>but now they are busy getting ready to sue the FBI and other law enforcment
>agencies to force them not to retain the information they get from the
>instant check system. Duh, again. (This was all foreseeable to anyone with
>half a brain.)
>
>The country now has the beginnings of a national gun registration system,
>courtesy of such "useful idiots" as the National Rifle Association.


I was chatting for a while this afternoon with Larry Pratt of GOA
(http://www.gunowners.org/). He pointed out that the NRA's compromising
stance is not new. They've supported many, many pieces of gun control
legislation since around the 1930s. Today at their press conference, a
phlanx of NRA reps stressed that they really want this instant check.
Necessary for law enforcement, whatever.

The NRA is the CDT of the gun world.

Remember when CDT's staff (before they left EFF) cut a deal on the Digital
Telephony/CALEA bill and endorsed it? Now, years later when some of the
provisions kick in, they're upset that the Justice Department wants more
power than the law allows.

Same thing's happening here with the NRA. What a surprise.

-Declan





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 09:17:18 +0800
To: Frederick Burroughs 
Subject: Re: New Brady Bill Implications
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199812020050.QAA29991@smtp.well.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Well,actually the FBI is claiming it will be used for audits, including
appeals from denials, not just statistical purposes.

Also interesting in this is the lack of outrage from self-proclaimed
"privacy advocates" -- really leftists who think it's OK to restrict guns.
Though some are better than others.

-Declan



At 06:04 PM 12-1-98 -0500, Frederick Burroughs wrote:
>
>
>Tim May wrote:
>
>>  As for the privacy implications of the instant check system, I abandoned
>> the NRA a few years ago when it began pushing this instant check system
>> (and also when some of its leaders were lukewarm in their support of gun
>> rights). It was obvious that it would lead to a fully computerized gun
>> registration system, as indeed it has...duh! The NRA claimed it would not,
>> but now they are busy getting ready to sue the FBI and other law enforcment
>> agencies to force them not to retain the information they get from the
>> instant check system. Duh, again. (This was all foreseeable to anyone with
>> half a brain.)
>
>The NRA is claiming that the database of citizens who purchase guns
legally is
>prohibited by the Brady Bill. FBI claims it will be used for statistical
purposes
>only. What will the statistics be used for? In the near future, we might
expect
>anyone with more than 0.5 brain (among other handicaps) to fail the
instant check.
>Ahh, now I see why they call it the Brady Bill (sincere apologies to Mr.
Brady).
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 12:36:30 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Fwd: FC: Gun groups take aim at new FBI database
Message-ID: <199812020304.TAA04962@smtp.well.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




>Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 21:50:05 -0500
>To: politech@vorlon.mit.edu
>From: Declan McCullagh 
>Subject: FC: Gun groups take aim at new FBI database
>Sender: owner-politech@vorlon.mit.edu
>X-URL: Politech is at http://www.well.com/~declan/politech/
>
>
>
>http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/16561.html
>
>                     Gun Groups Take Aim at Database
>                     by Declan McCullagh (declan@wired.com)
>
>                     4:45 p.m.  1.Dec.98.PST
>                     WASHINGTON -- A controversial FBI
>                     database that records gun buyers'
>                     names, addresses, and Social Security
>                     numbers is "a national surveillance
>                     system" that violates the law. 
>
>                     So says the National Rifle Association in a
>                     motion for a preliminary injunction filed
>                     Monday in US District Court. 
>
>                     [...]
>
>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>POLITECH -- the moderated mailing list of politics and technology
>To subscribe: send a message to majordomo@vorlon.mit.edu with this text:
>subscribe politech
>More information is at http://www.well.com/~declan/politech/
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 15:28:32 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Matt Blaze arrested???
In-Reply-To: <19981202051225.1348.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 10:19 PM -0800 12/1/98, Eric Cordian wrote:
>A Disposable Hotmail Account writes:
>
>> According to the report a Bell Labs mathematician named
>> Blaze was arrested at the O'Hare airport today, in some
>> kind of FBI sting operation.
>
>Who are you?
>
>While the originating IP of this message is owned by Bell Labs,
>I find it surprising that a story of this magnitude is nowhere to
>be found on the various wire services.
>
>Can anyone confirm or deny this report?  Color me suspicious.
>

I'm more than suspicious....the thing is written in a spoof motif.

On the other hand, remember how several of us were apparently "warned" (in
the threatening sense) by the Internal Revenue Service by weird forwardings
of our messages and by pre-announcement of Jim Bell's arrest?

Maybe someone from the State Department is pulling the same trick.

If so, Matt still has enough time to lock and load.....

--Tim May

"I swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, just the way the President did."
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "jim finder" 
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 13:43:00 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Matt Blaze arrested???
Message-ID: <19981202051225.1348.qmail@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I heard a shocking thing on the radio a few minutes ago.
I'm <*really*> sorry I didn't hear the whole report but I'm
hoping someone here can shed some light,

According to the report a Bell Labs mathematician named
Blaze was arrested at the O'Hare airport today, in some
kind of FBI sting operation.  I didn't hear the whole segment,
but it sounded like it had something to do with passing classified
(crypto?) information to a foreign government.  The part of
the report that I heard didn't say what kind of info or what
he was charged with, but I got the impression that it was either
some kind of ITAR thing or maybe espionage.  They did
say it was part of a long term sting operation and mentioned
something (that I didn't hear clearly) about "other arrests"
that either already happened or were likely to happen soon.

Was this Matt Blaze?  It sure sounds like it must be.  Is
there a crackdown going on? Has anyone else been busted?

Does anyone have more complete information about this?

Jim


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 07:39:08 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: y2k+oil refineries
Message-ID: <199812012241.XAA19806@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



North's "scrap the refinery, the chip broke" scenario was forwarded to
comp.software.year-2000 by Paul Milne, resident doomsayer, foul-mouthed
religious fanatic, economic Marxist, and all around kook.  It prompted a
very knowledgable reply which pointed out how silly the whole idea was,
from someone with relevant experience.  Maybe next time Detweiler could
check c.s.y2k to filter out North's nuttier ideas before forwarding
them here.


Author: SAG
Email: stephen.and.marilyn.goldstein@worldnet.att.net
Date: 1998/12/01

fedinfo@halifax.com wrote:
> 
> From GN:
> 
> Category:
>  Noncompliant_Chips
> Date:
>  1998-11-30 13:28:22
> Subject:
>  Fuel Production Plants
> 
> * * * * * * * *
> 
> I have one very, very reliable source within that industry who tells me that
> the oil refining industry can't cope with the task. I am told that the problem
> of embedded systems can NOT be fixed EVER, no matter how much time were
> allowed. WHY? Because the refineries themselves would have to be dismantled to
> uncover these embedded systems. Essentially, the refineries would have to be
> destroyed and rebuilt!!! These embedded systems are buried within enclosed
> systems. Identifying, testing and replacing these systems is too impractical.
> It is financially unsound to do so. The better option is to build new ones.
> There is no time to do this with less than 400 days left and the time to build
> a new refinery is 3 to 5 years.
> 
> So, what does this mean? My sources, especially the most reliable source tell
> me that it means that on January 1, 2000... the oil and gas refineries will
> cease operations. These facilities also have converted their inventory
> management control systems to small inventory levels so that inventory levels
> are running about 1 to 2 days capacity. A few years ago, the industry averaged
> a 1 to 6 month supply in storage tanks. Not so today.
> 
> The results: By 1/5/2000 there will be no gasoline, no diesel fuel, no
> natural gas, no heating oil, no fuel oil products at all. This means trains
> will have no fuel. Trucks will have no fuel. Cars will have no fuel. Electric
> Power Plants will have no oil for fuel, nor coal... because there will be no
> fuel to power the vehicles to get it to them. So, there will be no
> electricity. And you know the remaining domino schematic from that point.
> 
> ======
> 
> I have no way of knowing whether the embedded systems are just that, embedded
> in such a way that they can not be accessed. I imagine that some could be
> under fifty feet of concrete or otherwise inaccessable. If this is so, then
> there is not the slightest doubt at all, that it is indeed all over. Period.
> 
> I am not going to bandy about the issue of whether this source is reliable or
> not. It makes no difference. The only thing I am concerned with is whether
> these systems are in fact inaccessable. I know that not every system is
> inaccessable. The question is whether there are enough inaccessable systems to
> mean that the refineries etc. will not function.
> 
> Of course, I would love to hear someone counter this with evidence showing
> that what has been related above is not true, or it is an urban myth etc.
> But, I would like 'evidence'. Not conjecture or inuendo or suppositions.
> 
> If it were so, that there were indeed these inaccessable systems, would the
> companies involved let it be known publically? I think not.
> 
> If this report is accurate, the remediation is 100% moot as I have said all
> along, and you can kiss your butt good-bye.

I'm not sure if I want to play this game Mr. Milne -- you offer this
article which is, conjecture, innuendo and supposition but demand that
any counter story be documented by "evidence."  That's pretty tough and,
frankly, I'm not up to the task as my knowledge is with electric power
plants -- not oil refineries.

They do, of course, share some important characteristics and so I'll
give it a try.  The approach will be from two perspectives -- first,
I'll explain some power plant construction practices that contradict the
refinery story; second, I'll offer another review of the nature of the
"embedded" systems that might be at issue.

Power Plant (and refinery) construction . . . .

Remember, power plants and refineries are:
o Capital intensive
o Make increased use of computerized process control systems
o Operate a continuous manufacturing/conversion process employing high
temperatures and pressures.

Typical design life of a coal-fired power plant is 40 years.  During
that period, any number of components *will* fail and *will have to be
replaced.*  Wouldn't make much sense to put a $500million investment at
risk 'cause a $20.00 part failed in some inaccessible location.  Thus
EVERYTHING is accessible.

You want evidence and I'm not about to take you on a power plant tour
but even if you've never been inside a power plant the construction
practice is similar to that found in many other industrial settings and,
if you've ever been aboard a naval vessel or taken a cruise, ships. 
These settings are nothing like your home (or even an office) with all
the infrastructure components nicely hidden behind walls -- pipes are
exposed and clearly labeled -- power and control cables are laid in
exposed cable trays and risers.  Electronic components are often mounted
in racks with easy access from front and back -- probably not at all
like your computer or home theatre configuration.  All this is to PERMIT
MAINTENANCE, REPAIR and MODIFICATION.

So you need to understand that the problem isn't just maintenance, in
general, or for y2k.  Process plants need to be modified frequently --
market conditions demand a change in inputs or outputs.  Can't get
enough sweet crude?  Exxon doesn't close the refinery -- they modify it
to handle the new feedstock (I got the grand tour from a fellow I knew
who worked at Exxon's Baton Rouge refinery, years ago).

Want some pictures?  Here are a few from several "continuous process"
industries: http://www.powerprocesspiping.com/,
http://www.bdmechanical.com/ppiping.htm,
http://silverweb.nf.ca/m&m/cb-p&p.htm, and
http://www.shambaugh.com/process.htm.

Now consider the nature of these embedded components.  This has been the
subject of much discussion in csy2k.  I'd like to suggest that there are
three broad categories of components in this context:

o The control system(s) -- SCADA -- one or more intelligent nodes build
on traditional minicomputer, or more recently, microprocessor-based
server technology.  These are very accessible -- they're in, adjacent
to, or very near, the control room.  In an even more modern "distributed
control system," some of the capability will be located in different
areas of the plant.  Nevertheless, they still have to be very accessible
-- stuff breaks -- memories get hard, multibit errors, disk drives fail,
etc.

o Remote devices -- the control systems can't run without data and so
you have dozens to thousands of remotes -- devices that measure process
parameters (temperature, pressure, mass flow, volumetric flow,
acceleration and mechanical position (valve position or tank levels))
and a smaller number of remotes that can act on SCADA commands (start a
motor, open a valve, etc.)  Though most of these devices are pretty
dumb, some may have a bit of silicon-based intelligence and therefore
susceptible to y2k problems.  BUT, they all have to be accessible
because 1) they malfunction or need to be recalibrated and 2) plant
modifications often require removal/replacement to accommodate process
changes.

o Embedded systems -- I think that the consensus is that the real
embedded systems are those systems that are not obviously run by a
computer -- the power plants water chemistry analyzer or the refineries
gas chromatograph.  These are on the site but they're not in the "plant"
-- they're in the lab -- very accessible.

Now "accessible" doesn't always mean you can walk right up and touch
it!  Guess where the flue gas monitoring remotes (temperature, opacity)
are located -- top of the boiler or in the stack.  But here's the
scenario -- opacity indicator increases (flue gas has more smoke in it)
but the stack gas "looks" clear.  Do you shut down the plan on
environment limits or do you send a maintenance man to replace the
remote?

Now is it possible that conditions would be different at an oil
refinery.  Sure, like I wrote at the beginning, I'm not really familar
with these.  But, really, we'd be looking at some obtuse examples --
imagine that rather than using a tank level indicator to see how much
gasoline is in a tank, someone came up with the bright idea of putting a
strain gauge *under* the tank and determing the amount of product in the
tank but computing the weight on the gauge and using that to compute the
amount of product.  The device fails and, we'll all agree, it is not
practical to replace it.

Does the refinery stop using the tank?  I wouldn't think so.  They
retrofit a traditional tank level indicator (float) to provide the
needed information. 

HTH,

SAG




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Blanc" 
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 16:20:56 +0800
To: 
Subject: I Got Mine
Message-ID: <000301be1dc9$357bf260$808195cf@blanc>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I received my visit from the friendly IRS guys tonight, asking about CJ/Toto.
It seems that they had a copy of two emails (which they took from his
confiscated computer) with my name on them - one of them the one in which I
chastized him for sending a threatening letter to Billg.   According to the
headers in the message which they showed to me, Toto forwarded my reply through
remailer@replay.com, Anon-To: billg.

They wanted to know about my associations with Toto (I still think of him by
that name), of course, of which I had none except through email.  In our
conversation, I discovered things that I didn't know about Toto's situation:
that he had sent threatening letters to the Mounties, and that he had threated
to kill the judge trying Jim's case.   This is why he will be held and tried in
the local jail - because the potential victims (besides the Mounties) are in
this area.  (sigh) I'm afraid CJ really went over the edge here and backed
himself up in a corner.  I should have chastized him more severely and counseled
him against rash acts of unkindness (not that I hold myself responsible for what
he did, but he did pay attention to me).

Kind of amusingly, one of them asked if CJ had ever asked me to join the Circle
of Eunuchs!  heh.   I explained that it was Toto's Art imitating Life, creating
stories about a revolutionary group based on the list discussions, and that I
suspected he called it the Circle of Eunuchs because of the accusations ( by
*some people* )that cpunks are ineffectual.

We had a bit of discussion on a number of things, including the subject of free
speech and how close one can get to it before being subject to arrest.  I asked
them what that crucial point was when this would happen, since there is no crime
until action is actually taken.  They said this would be when a direct threat is
made and a specific name is mentioned.  I referenced as an example the web site
which some group put up containing a list of the names of abortion-performing
doctors, mentioned in the press as a 'hit list'.   They said that a web site
with a list of names is not a problem.  It is when statements are made about
killing the individuals on the list that a person would have "crossed the line".
One of the investigators also brought up the issue of the conflict between free
speech vs life & liberty, of when one infringes on the other (as in threatening
to take away someone's life).  I remarked that one must always be prepared for
the unexpected, and they made some points about taking threats seriously and the
necessity of government agents looking out for their personal safety.

I asked if cypherpunks would actually be subpoenaed to appear at CJ's trial.
They said it depends on CJ:  if he accepts a deal, he would likely get a reduced
sentence, but if he takes them to trial then there could be quite a number of
Cpunks called forth.  I suggested if that happens we could all go out to dinner
: ) and they thought this would be quite interesting.  One of the investigators
expressed a great interest in the cpunk dicussions and concepts;  I described
something of what the list is about and the flow of subscribers through it, and
referred him to the archives, saying '94-'95 were some good years.  I'm sure
given a little time and several dinners we could convert him to the Dark Side.


   ..
Blanc




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Eric Cordian 
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 14:47:34 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Matt Blaze arrested???
In-Reply-To: <19981202051225.1348.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <199812020619.AAA21655@wire.insync.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



A Disposable Hotmail Account writes:

> According to the report a Bell Labs mathematician named
> Blaze was arrested at the O'Hare airport today, in some
> kind of FBI sting operation.

Who are you?  

While the originating IP of this message is owned by Bell Labs, 
I find it surprising that a story of this magnitude is nowhere to
be found on the various wire services. 

Can anyone confirm or deny this report?  Color me suspicious.

-- 
Eric Michael Cordian 0+
O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division
"Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 13:53:12 +0800
To: Lucky Green 
Subject: Re: Fwd: FC: Gun groups take aim at new FBI database
In-Reply-To: <199812020304.TAA04962@smtp.well.com>
Message-ID: <199812020524.VAA10327@smtp.well.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I've been chatting with Marc after he read the article; he confirmed his
stance and elaborated on it. I'll see if I can get his permission to
forward the message.

ACLU ("what second amendment?") takes the same position,I believe. 

-Declan




At 06:11 AM 12-2-98 +0100, Lucky Green wrote:
>On Tue, 1 Dec 1998, Declan McCullagh wrote:
>
>
>> >http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/16561.html
>> >
>> >                     Gun Groups Take Aim at Database
>
>"EPIC director Marc Rotenberg likened the plan to driver licensing, adding
>that privacy safeguards should be in place."
>
>Well, at least this makes it clear where EPIC stands on civil liberties.
>License to exercise your rights under the 2nd, license to exercise your
>rights under the 1st...
>
>-- Lucky Green  PGP v5 encrypted email preferred.
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Lucky Green 
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 13:35:39 +0800
To: Declan McCullagh 
Subject: Re: New Brady Bill Implications
In-Reply-To: <199812020013.QAA20073@smtp.well.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



GOA is good. So is JPFO (Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership).
The boundaries between NRA and HCI are blurry. I am thinking about leaving
the NRA, but since I am a Life Member, I can at least vote for the NRA
board...

--Lucky, JPFO member and proud of it.

On Tue, 1 Dec 1998, Declan McCullagh wrote:

> 
> At 01:14 PM 12-1-98 -0800, Tim May wrote:
> >As for the privacy implications of the instant check system, I abandoned
> >the NRA a few years ago when it began pushing this instant check system
> >(and also when some of its leaders were lukewarm in their support of gun
> >rights). It was obvious that it would lead to a fully computerized gun
> >registration system, as indeed it has...duh! The NRA claimed it would not,
> >but now they are busy getting ready to sue the FBI and other law enforcment
> >agencies to force them not to retain the information they get from the
> >instant check system. Duh, again. (This was all foreseeable to anyone with
> >half a brain.)
> >
> >The country now has the beginnings of a national gun registration system,
> >courtesy of such "useful idiots" as the National Rifle Association.
> 
> 
> I was chatting for a while this afternoon with Larry Pratt of GOA
> (http://www.gunowners.org/). He pointed out that the NRA's compromising
> stance is not new. They've supported many, many pieces of gun control
> legislation since around the 1930s. Today at their press conference, a
> phlanx of NRA reps stressed that they really want this instant check.
> Necessary for law enforcement, whatever.
> 
> The NRA is the CDT of the gun world.
> 
> Remember when CDT's staff (before they left EFF) cut a deal on the Digital
> Telephony/CALEA bill and endorsed it? Now, years later when some of the
> provisions kick in, they're upset that the Justice Department wants more
> power than the law allows.
> 
> Same thing's happening here with the NRA. What a surprise.
> 
> -Declan
> 
> 
> 


-- Lucky Green  PGP v5 encrypted email preferred.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 13:35:30 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: NZ or LA in Y2K
Message-ID: <199812020501.GAA21822@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 10:51 AM 12/1/98 -0600, Igor Chudov @ home wrote:
>I am now considering another possibility: what happens if the power DOES
>NOT go out? What would the gunnuts do? 

Um, start shooting the insulators and pole-transformers? :-P 

Or, if the power does go out but
>looting does not start, would the gunnuts shoot some blacks that they
>mistake for "looters" but who are just walking down the streets?

Now you're confusing arms fanciers and survivalists with violent racists.
Get a grip.












  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Lucky Green 
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 13:40:03 +0800
To: Declan McCullagh 
Subject: Re: Fwd: FC: Gun groups take aim at new FBI database
In-Reply-To: <199812020304.TAA04962@smtp.well.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Tue, 1 Dec 1998, Declan McCullagh wrote:


> >http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/16561.html
> >
> >                     Gun Groups Take Aim at Database

"EPIC director Marc Rotenberg likened the plan to driver licensing, adding
that privacy safeguards should be in place."

Well, at least this makes it clear where EPIC stands on civil liberties.
License to exercise your rights under the 2nd, license to exercise your
rights under the 1st...

-- Lucky Green  PGP v5 encrypted email preferred.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Lucky Green 
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 14:34:31 +0800
To: jim finder 
Subject: Re: Matt Blaze arrested???
In-Reply-To: <19981202051225.1348.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Tue, 1 Dec 1998, jim finder wrote:

> 
> I heard a shocking thing on the radio a few minutes ago.
> I'm <*really*> sorry I didn't hear the whole report but I'm
> hoping someone here can shed some light,
> 
> According to the report a Bell Labs mathematician named
> Blaze was arrested at the O'Hare airport today, in some
> kind of FBI sting operation.

NFW that Matt would get arrested. He is too high profile. They haven't
become that blatant just yet. Arresting Matt would trigger more pro-bono
work than the DOJ has staff. :-) Besides, Matt would not engage in illegal
activities.

-- Lucky Green  PGP v5 encrypted email preferred.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Frederick Burroughs 
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 21:51:04 +0800
To: Cypherpunks 
Subject: Re: I Got Mine
In-Reply-To: <000301be1dc9$357bf260$808195cf@blanc>
Message-ID: <36653E71.6115919@shentel.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





Blanc wrote:

> I received my visit from the friendly IRS guys tonight, asking about CJ/Toto.

[...]

> I discovered things that I didn't know about Toto's situation:
> that he had sent threatening letters to the Mounties, and that he had threated
> to kill the judge trying Jim's case.

I guess investigators have to take such things seriously, that's their job. I
believe CJ was just trying to establish dialogue with *authority* figures, real or
imagined, to satisfy a selfish need for aggrandizement. Well, he got his wish and it
swallowed him whole. May the saints preserve him.[...]

> One of the investigators expressed a great interest in the cpunk dicussions and
> concepts;

Constitutionally guaranteed concepts can be novel and quite interesting.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Trei, Peter" 
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 23:21:04 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: RE: "Export" controls
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




"Anonymous" wrote:

> >Can you give me an example of a commercial vendor who has suffered
> >because someone bought a "dangerous" product ( Windows, for example ) at
> >retail and carried it out of the country in a suitcase? My guess would
> 
> I cannot give such example because hard crypto products are not available
> to
> the general public.
> 
> I am unaware that microshit OS has hard crypto built-in. The only hard
> crypto
> package I have ever seen for sale at mail-order (and thus not anonymous)
> is
> NAI's PGP (and I have never seen any hard crypto available in a store for
> cash
> - but that can only mean that there is no perceived demand).
> 
	[Trei, Peter]  
	Huh?

	I got my copy of NAI PGP 5.0 off of the shelf at
	CompUSA, a major retail chain (I did pay with plastic,
	but am 99.999...% certain that cash would have been
	accepted). The box *is* marked 'Not for export', but
	I don't recall seeing any other restrictions.

	Either 'anonymous' hasn't looked hard enough, or
	he/she/it's in another country.

	Peter Trei
	ptrei@securitydynamics.com

	[I apologize for the lousy formatting. I'm using
	a Microsoft product to sent this message.]   




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 02:41:59 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: "Export" controls
Message-ID: <3665810E.1BBD@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> I am unaware that microshit OS has hard crypto built-in.
> 
I was pointing out a retail parallel, not a crypto parallel.
You sure it's not Microshaft? More meanings.

> The question is how to make money by selling hard crypto in the US.
>
A little experiment is often a good thing. I heard that the guys who
made the DES cracker have had $$ requests for machines and/or chips.

> To recap, there are no hard crypto drop-in hardware products
> available to general public in the USA today.
>
In case you missed it, my original reply was an attempt to open
discussion on some type of cooperative effort.

Look at http://www.xilinx.com/products/xc4000XLA.html for prototype
purposes. I wonder how many DES or IDEA engines could be put on a 500K
gate array? It would fit about 35 instantiations of Twofish. That should
be enough for a phone or a disk encryptor.

It's not trivial but -
Products can be done. 
On a shoestring. 
By the right people. 
Even non-geniuses.
Who want to get them done. <-- the key item

No sense pushing the button without critical mass.

sigh...

A friend's t-shirt many years ago:
  A penny for your thoughts, twenty bucks to act them out.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ray Arachelian 
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 01:27:27 +0800
To: Anonymous 
Subject: Re: Spy & CounterSpy
In-Reply-To: <199812021445.PAA00469@replay.com>
Message-ID: <36656470.A91D8D66@brainlink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Anonymous wrote:
 
> I know this is a little off topic, but has anyone
>  verified the integrity of a web site called
> "Spy & CounterSpy" located at http://www.spycounterspy.com/?
> 
> The site is basically a citizens' guide to
> counterintelligence, and covers topics ranging
> from anonymous email and encryption to evading
> FBI surveillance.
> 
> The author, Lee Adams, claims to have years of
> experience in these areas but I'm wondering if
> this site isn't quite what it appears to be --
> a site put up by some freedom-loving guy who wants
> to help everyone enjoy their privacy.


I'm uncertain as to their intentions.  They do have what seems to be
interesting information as to how Law Enforcement works, but after
subscribing to their "F9" mailing list out of curiosity, it seems that
every other email is a call to join them in their "battle" against
whatever vague enemy they believe they have and to set up "cells."

I don't know if the value of their material and the validity as such,
perhaps a local LEO on this list can verify its accuracy, however,
IMHO, it's best to not get involved with them as they're either very
honest about their intent and thus are in great danger and are a
great danger to others, or are a front for something evil.

What's interesting is that I've not received any more of the F9
messages in a long while, so something is up with them, either that
or because I've shown no interest in joining their "cause"  they've
stopped sending mail.

They're certainly a lot more than just a site put up by freedom 
loving folks, and the web site doesn't display that. 


-- 

=====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos==============
.+.^.+.|       Sunder       |Prying open my 3rd eye.  So good to see |./|\.
..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were      |/\|/\
<--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run  |\/|\/
../|\..| "A toast to Odin,  |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/.
.+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were....            |.....
======================= http://www.sundernet.com ==========================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 04:04:17 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: Y2K and Atlas
Message-ID: <5F152E6E8E6FD21195DF00104B2425AD02B2F4@yarrowbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





-----Original Message-----
From: [somebody]
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 1998 5:04 PM
To: philosophy of objectivism
Subject: For the ARF


Ed Yourdon is name known to aging geeks as the developer of structured 
systems analysis & design.  His text on the subject is still in use in 
C.S. courses around the country.  He's also the author of a dozen or so 
books about programming, particularly mainframe programming.

In early 1998 Yourdon and his daughter Jennifer co-authored "Time Bomb 
2000: What the Year 2000 Computer Crisis Means to You."  (As you might 
infer from the title, the Yourdons aren't exactly sanguine about the 
potential impact of the Y2K problem.)  (Nor am I.)

Yourdon maintains a web site featuring, among many other things, reading 
list both technical and non-technical about programming and Y2K.

Introducing his non-technical list of Y2K books, he recommends Atlas 
Shrugged with the following comment:

>As for Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged ... well, you probably read it in 
>college, but you've probably forgotten all about it. You probably don't 
>remember John Galt's famous line, "I will stop the engine of the world."   
>Well, read the book again now, with Y2K-colored glasses, and remember that 
>computer programmers are reading it, too.   The question you need to ask 
>them is whether they intend to stay on the job if the lights go out on 
>January 1, 2000, and whether they feel sufficiently motivated to re-start 
>the engines of the world. If you don't think that's a question worth 
>asking, then you haven't read Atlas Shrugged.

So I guess I'm not the only person to have made that connection... 

http://www.yourdon.com/books/coolbooks/coolby2kother.html




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matt Blaze 
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 01:37:52 +0800
To: "jim finder" 
Subject: Re: Matt Blaze arrested???
In-Reply-To: <19981202051225.1348.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <199812021636.LAA22798@nsa.research.att.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I'm afraid you're confused.  Whoever this report was about, it
wasn't me:

* I'm not at Lucent Bell Labs. (I'm at AT&T Shannon Labs.)  I'm not
  aware of any other Blaze at either AT&T or Lucent, however.
* I'm not a mathematician. (I'm a computer scientist.)
* I've not been to ORD, or any other midwestern airport,
  since August.  (I do fly a lot, though).
* I never been arrested.  (I did accently set off the antitheft
  detector at a local bookstore once, but they let me go
  when I showed them my reciept).  

-matt

>I heard a shocking thing on the radio a few minutes ago.
>I'm <*really*> sorry I didn't hear the whole report but I'm
>hoping someone here can shed some light,
>
>According to the report a Bell Labs mathematician named
>Blaze was arrested at the O'Hare airport today, in some
>kind of FBI sting operation.  I didn't hear the whole segment,
>but it sounded like it had something to do with passing classified
>(crypto?) information to a foreign government.  The part of
>the report that I heard didn't say what kind of info or what
>he was charged with, but I got the impression that it was either
>some kind of ITAR thing or maybe espionage.  They did
>say it was part of a long term sting operation and mentioned
>something (that I didn't hear clearly) about "other arrests"
>that either already happened or were likely to happen soon.
>
>Was this Matt Blaze?  It sure sounds like it must be.  Is
>there a crackdown going on? Has anyone else been busted?
>
>Does anyone have more complete information about this?
>
>Jim
>
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "X" 
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 03:17:50 +0800
To: "Ray Arachelian" 
Subject: RE: Spy & CounterSpy
In-Reply-To: <36656470.A91D8D66@brainlink.com>
Message-ID: <000701be1e23$16e445a0$8e2580d0@ibm>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Ray sez:

~> What's interesting is that I've not received any more of the F9
~> messages in a long while, so something is up with them, either that
~> or because I've shown no interest in joining their "cause"  they've
~> stopped sending mail.

That would be a first.

X




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Greg Broiles 
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 05:22:56 +0800
To: Blanc 
Subject: Re: I Got Mine
In-Reply-To: <000301be1dc9$357bf260$808195cf@blanc>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Tue, 1 Dec 1998, Blanc wrote:

> I received my visit from the friendly IRS guys tonight, asking about CJ/Toto.
> [...]
> In our conversation, I discovered things that I didn't know about Toto's
> situation [...]

More information is interesting, but it's important to remember that cops
are free to lie to ordinary people and suspects; it's not considered a
violation of your constitutional rights, of the law, or of their
professional standards. Good interrogators/investigators learn to use
social and psychological techniques to gain the results they want - which
may be gaining intelligence, extracting a confession, or isolating a
suspect from their friends/supporters/codefendants.

Just as a reasonable person will likely listen cautiously to an accused
person proclaiming their innocence, a reasonable person should also listen
cautiously when the prosecution proclaims someone's guilt.  

--
Greg Broiles
gbroiles@netbox.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 03:35:42 +0800
To: Michael Motyka 
Subject: Re: "Export" controls
In-Reply-To: <3665810E.1BBD@lsil.com>
Message-ID: <199812021810.NAA016.22@whgiii>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



In <3665810E.1BBD@lsil.com>, on 12/02/98 
   at 10:03 AM, Michael Motyka  said:

>You sure it's not Microshaft? More meanings.

I prefer Mickysloth myself as it is more descriptive of their coding style. :)

-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
---------------------------------------------------------------





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous x@z.wyx
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 20:45:06 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: "Export" controls
Message-ID: <199812021214.NAA20333@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>Can you give me an example of a commercial vendor who has suffered
>because someone bought a "dangerous" product ( Windows, for example ) at
>retail and carried it out of the country in a suitcase? My guess would

I cannot give such example because hard crypto products are not available to
the general public.

I am unaware that microshit OS has hard crypto built-in. The only hard crypto
package I have ever seen for sale at mail-order (and thus not anonymous) is
NAI's PGP (and I have never seen any hard crypto available in a store for cash
- but that can only mean that there is no perceived demand).

However, any hard crypto that would work on system level and encrypt all
communications is not available for purchase (it is available for free,
though, in the form of IPSec package with 128-bit block ciphers for
*BSD operating systems.)

There is a number of VPN companies that offer crypto boxes, but AFAIK they
either do not mention crypto scheme they use or they say DES. There is
only one VPN company that advertises 128-bit crypto in it's product.

>> [ For example, try to buy one of IBM crypto-cards - give them a call
>> and ask what does it take to purchase one with hard crypto on it
>>
>Save me the phone call and describe your experience. BTW - IBM derives a

You'll miss all the fun. After talking to 5-6 departments one concludes
that no one knows anything about 4758, but they are all nice and helpful,
and forward your call to each other. 4758 does not exist for casual callers.
My guess is that if you have been dealing with IBM for some time you may
be able to get it.

To recap, there are no hard crypto drop-in hardware products available to
general public in the USA today.

>just write a damn book, source, VHDL etc. You can even export that. My

The question is how to make money by selling hard crypto in the US. NAI seems
to be the only company that can get away with so-called "publishing exception"
in the commercial world. Their joining the key recovery alliance is probably
unrelated :-)

>Disk encryptor - SCSI/EIDE, a bump in the wire between the motherboard
>and the disk drive. With its own smartcard/keypad interface, keys are
>never seen by OS. It doesn't solve the security problem while the system

There are many neat ideas. But no hardware.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Steve Bryan 
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 03:58:33 +0800
To: cryptography@c2.net
Subject: Re: Matt Blaze arrested???
In-Reply-To: <19981202051225.1348.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Matt Blaze wrote:

>I'm afraid you're confused.  Whoever this report was about, it
>wasn't me:
>...

Not a important question but isn't this the sort of message that would
benefit most from a PGP signature? I checked on the certserver and it did
locate a 512 bit key RSA key from 1993. I don't routinely sign or encrypt
my email but I remain curious about decisions others make. In a program on
NPR a few years ago I recall a few luminaries were ardently discussing the
issues involved in encryption but when asked late in the program how they
used encrryption themselves they all quickly said that it was just too
cumbersome.

Steve Bryan
Vendorsystems International
email: sbryan@vendorsystems.com
icq: 5263678
pgp fingerprint: D758 183C 8B79 B28E 6D4C  2653 E476 82E6 DA7C 9AC5





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ulf@fitug.de (Ulf =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=F6ller?=)
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 02:01:59 +0800
To: holist@mail.matav.hu
Subject: "remailers operated by FBI"
In-Reply-To: <199811261817.KAA27682@toad.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> I wonder if this is also old hat to you people. If it turns out to
> be another FAQ, I promise to read some.

It is. The rumor of remailers being run by US authorities can be
tracked down to statements by Paul Strassmann of the National Defense
University and William Marlow of SIAC made at a Harvard conference.

The Austrian jurist Viktor Mayer-Schoenberger reported in February 1996:

| Both presenters explicitly acknowledged that a number of anonymous
| remnailers in the US are run by government agencies scanning
| traffic.  Marlow said that the government runs at least a dozen
| remailers and that the most popular remailers in France and Germany
| are run by the respective government agencies in these countries.

However, there has never been any remailer in France, and at that
time, there was no remailer in Germany. It is certainly not true that
dozens or even "all the e-mail anonymiser services" in the US are run
by government agencies. Strassmann and Marlow later claimed that they
had been quoted "out of context". They wrote, "We have no specific
knowledge of any particular agency of any government offering
remailers services.  Whether or how they use remailers is not known to
us.  Online users just need to be 'aware of the risks.'" But
unfortunately rumors are hard to stop.

Anyway, the possibility that some remailers may be compromized is part
of the threat model, and Mixmaster has been designed to be secure as
long as there is one honest remailer in your chains.

More information:

http://caq.com/CAQ57Sniff.html
http://catless.ncl.ac.uk/Risks/ (search for Strassmann Marlow)

About the Mixmaster design:
http://www.obscura.com/~loki/remailer/remailer-essay.html


> The extortionist was sending the notes via e-mail, using what the
> professor referred to as "e-mail anonymiser servers" in the US.

It seems he in fact used a service like hotmail.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ray Arachelian 
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 03:18:37 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Spy & CounterSpy
In-Reply-To: <000701be1e23$16e445a0$8e2580d0@ibm>
Message-ID: <36658C71.1D60BE90@brainlink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



X wrote:
> 
> Ray sez:
> 
> ~> What's interesting is that I've not received any more of the F9
> ~> messages in a long while, so something is up with them, either that
> ~> or because I've shown no interest in joining their "cause"  they've
> ~> stopped sending mail.
> 
> That would be a first.

All things considered they're advocating shooting people and blowing up
buildings (though in vague terms); that's not exactly something I'd want
to add to my resume or be associated with.  So, no thanks. 


-- 

=====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos==============
.+.^.+.|       Sunder       |Prying open my 3rd eye.  So good to see |./|\.
..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com|you once again. I thought you were      |/\|/\
<--*-->| ------------------ |hiding, and you thought that I had run  |\/|\/
../|\..| "A toast to Odin,  |away chasing the tail of dogma. I opened|.\|/.
.+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"|my eye and there we were....            |.....
======================= http://www.sundernet.com ==========================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Ignoramus)
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 05:26:39 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: test1 #1
Message-ID: <199812022039.PAA11521@mail.video-collage.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



test 1




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Chuck McManis 
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 08:02:57 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: L5 algorithm patent, and free eval version
In-Reply-To: <199812022046.VAA14983@replay.com>
Message-ID: <4.1.19981202152724.00a17ea0@mailhost.hq.freegate.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 09:46 PM 12/2/98 +0100, Anonymous wrote:
>Now that L5 has been patented, will you and your colleagues at Jaws
>Technology make the L5 algorithm details available to the professional
>cryptography community for independant verification. Could you also
>provide the Canadian and/or US patent numbers?

L5 has NOT been patented. The company simply announced it had been
"accepted" which is in itself a non-sequitor since patents aren't
"accepted." My guess is that the patent was filled and the application was
"allowed." This means that the information in the patent has passed the
examiner's preliminary examination for fitness (which is to say it isn't
one of the things that are disallowed by the patent office.) This actually
doesn't mean SQUAT since thousands of patents get "allowed" and then
"returned" because they don't meet more stringent tests such as
non-obviousness, do what the claims say they do, restate prior art, etc,
etc. However I do believe that disclosure at this point would be premature
because some of the things that examiner may ask may require the patent be
rewritten substantially. 

--Chuck




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 23:48:34 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199812021445.PAA00469@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I know this is a little off topic, but has anyone
 verified the integrity of a web site called 
"Spy & CounterSpy" located at http://www.spycounterspy.com/?

The site is basically a citizens' guide to 
counterintelligence, and covers topics ranging 
from anonymous email and encryption to evading 
FBI surveillance.

The author, Lee Adams, claims to have years of 
experience in these areas but I'm wondering if 
this site isn't quite what it appears to be -- 
a site put up by some freedom-loving guy who wants 
to help everyone enjoy their privacy.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Duncan Frissell 
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 05:36:48 +0800
To: Lucky Green 
Subject: Re: Fwd: FC: Gun groups take aim at new FBI database
In-Reply-To: <199812020304.TAA04962@smtp.well.com>
Message-ID: <4.0.2.19981202150708.03cb42c0@panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 06:11 AM 12/2/98 +0100, Lucky Green wrote:
>On Tue, 1 Dec 1998, Declan McCullagh wrote:
>
>
>> >http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/16561.html
>> >
>> >                     Gun Groups Take Aim at Database
>
>"EPIC director Marc Rotenberg likened the plan to driver licensing, adding
>that privacy safeguards should be in place."
>
>Well, at least this makes it clear where EPIC stands on civil liberties.
>License to exercise your rights under the 2nd, license to exercise your
>rights under the 1st...
>
>-- Lucky Green  PGP v5 encrypted email preferred.

Usual car, driver, and gun licensing rant:

While I do not support regulating guns like driving (or indeed driving like
driving), most gun control thugs ignore the fact that vehicle regulation is
not as broad as they seem to think.  

The following statements are true:

It is legal to own a car without a driver's license or vehicle registration.

It is legal to drive an unregistered car without a driver's license (in
some circumstances).

No permission is required to purchase a car and felons, the mentally ill,
children, aliens and those guilty of misdemeanor domestic violence offenses
can buy cars and most of the above can drive cars on public streets and roads.

You are not required to report the purchase of a car to anyone.  

It is legal to drive a car on public streets and roads in the US with a
license from any jurisdiction on earth.

It is legal to drive a car on public streets and roads in the US that is
registered in other states or nations.

It is legal to drive a car on public streets and roads in the US that is
owned by and registered to any person or legal entity.

Legal entities can own and register cars and permit anyone they like to
drive them.

Note that if we regulated guns like driving, the above would mean that you
could buy and use a gun on your own property without licensing,
registration or reporting.

DCF




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "jim finder" 
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 06:49:56 +0800
To: mab@research.att.com
Subject: Re: Matt Blaze arrested???
Message-ID: <19981202221915.26253.qmail@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 11:36:51 -0500
>From: Matt Blaze 
>
>I'm afraid you're confused.  Whoever this report was about, it
>wasn't me:
>
>* I'm not at Lucent Bell Labs. (I'm at AT&T Shannon Labs.)  I'm not
>  aware of any other Blaze at either AT&T or Lucent, however.
>* I'm not a mathematician. (I'm a computer scientist.)
>* I've not been to ORD, or any other midwestern airport,
>  since August.  (I do fly a lot, though).
>* I never been arrested.  (I did accently set off the antitheft
>  detector at a local bookstore once, but they let me go
>  when I showed them my reciept).  
>
>-matt
>

Thanks for clarifying this!  I'm very sorry to have
started an unfounded rumor but I'm glad to know
that you haven't been arrested.  Thankfully, it looks like
everyone assumed that I was just making this up, so I hope
no serious damage was done and that the rumor didn't spread.

That said, there <*was*> a radio report.  It was on WBEZ 91.5
last night, and, as I said, I only heard the last part of the
report.  It was a news report about an arrest made at the
O'Hare airport for something involving mathematics
and foreign governments.  I was almost 100% sure they
said it was Blaze of Bell Labs who was arrested, but
I guess it possible that I misheard.  Perhaps they were
quoting you or talking about you for some other reason.
I remember that someone at bell labs (you???) had some problems
with export authorities a few years ago, and maybe this is what
they were talking about?

Anyway, has anyone heard any more about this story, now that
we know it wasn't Matt Blaze who was arrested?

Humble Apologies,

Jim

PS I'm using a non-work account because I work for a
large Chicagoland company that does some crypto business
and I <*do not*> want to be seen as representing them on the
cypherpunks list.  Some of the work they do goes against
cypherpunk (and my own) goals, and I'd rather not have
people think I'm speaking for them.


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ostreamH 
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 06:44:05 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: y2k+oil refineries
In-Reply-To: <199812012241.XAA19806@replay.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Assuming most power plants are similar, all control instrumentation
must have some way to bypass the computers in case of emergency. The
pulp and paper mill I worked in lost +1M$ / day of downtime so when 
a controller went down, the process that was effected went on manual
bypass and everything continued to run. And yes, all "embedded" systems
were eaisly accessable for quick repair/replacement. 

On 01-Dec-98 Anonymous wrote:
> North's "scrap the refinery, the chip broke" scenario was forwarded to
> comp.software.year-2000 by Paul Milne, resident doomsayer, foul-mouthed
> religious fanatic, economic Marxist, and all around kook.  It prompted a
> very knowledgable reply which pointed out how silly the whole idea was,
> from someone with relevant experience.  Maybe next time Detweiler could
> check c.s.y2k to filter out North's nuttier ideas before forwarding
> them here.
> 
> 
> Author: SAG
> Email: stephen.and.marilyn.goldstein@worldnet.att.net
> Date: 1998/12/01
> 
> fedinfo@halifax.com wrote:
>> 
>> From GN:
>> 
>> Category:
>>  Noncompliant_Chips
>> Date:
>>  1998-11-30 13:28:22
>> Subject:
>>  Fuel Production Plants
>> 
>> * * * * * * * *
>> 
>> I have one very, very reliable source within that industry who tells me that
>> the oil refining industry can't cope with the task. I am told that the
>> problem
>> of embedded systems can NOT be fixed EVER, no matter how much time were
>> allowed. WHY? Because the refineries themselves would have to be dismantled
>> to
>> uncover these embedded systems. Essentially, the refineries would have to be
>> destroyed and rebuilt!!! These embedded systems are buried within enclosed
>> systems. Identifying, testing and replacing these systems is too
>> impractical.
>> It is financially unsound to do so. The better option is to build new ones.
>> There is no time to do this with less than 400 days left and the time to
>> build
>> a new refinery is 3 to 5 years.
>> 
>> So, what does this mean? My sources, especially the most reliable source
>> tell
>> me that it means that on January 1, 2000... the oil and gas refineries will
>> cease operations. These facilities also have converted their inventory
>> management control systems to small inventory levels so that inventory
>> levels
>> are running about 1 to 2 days capacity. A few years ago, the industry
>> averaged
>> a 1 to 6 month supply in storage tanks. Not so today.
>> 
>> The results: By 1/5/2000 there will be no gasoline, no diesel fuel, no
>> natural gas, no heating oil, no fuel oil products at all. This means trains
>> will have no fuel. Trucks will have no fuel. Cars will have no fuel.
>> Electric
>> Power Plants will have no oil for fuel, nor coal... because there will be no
>> fuel to power the vehicles to get it to them. So, there will be no
>> electricity. And you know the remaining domino schematic from that point.
>> 
>> ======
>> 
>> I have no way of knowing whether the embedded systems are just that,
>> embedded
>> in such a way that they can not be accessed. I imagine that some could be
>> under fifty feet of concrete or otherwise inaccessable. If this is so, then
>> there is not the slightest doubt at all, that it is indeed all over. Period.
>> 
>> I am not going to bandy about the issue of whether this source is reliable
>> or
>> not. It makes no difference. The only thing I am concerned with is whether
>> these systems are in fact inaccessable. I know that not every system is
>> inaccessable. The question is whether there are enough inaccessable systems
>> to
>> mean that the refineries etc. will not function.
>> 
>> Of course, I would love to hear someone counter this with evidence showing
>> that what has been related above is not true, or it is an urban myth etc.
>> But, I would like 'evidence'. Not conjecture or inuendo or suppositions.
>> 
>> If it were so, that there were indeed these inaccessable systems, would the
>> companies involved let it be known publically? I think not.
>> 
>> If this report is accurate, the remediation is 100% moot as I have said all
>> along, and you can kiss your butt good-bye.
> 
> I'm not sure if I want to play this game Mr. Milne -- you offer this
> article which is, conjecture, innuendo and supposition but demand that
> any counter story be documented by "evidence."  That's pretty tough and,
> frankly, I'm not up to the task as my knowledge is with electric power
> plants -- not oil refineries.
> 
> They do, of course, share some important characteristics and so I'll
> give it a try.  The approach will be from two perspectives -- first,
> I'll explain some power plant construction practices that contradict the
> refinery story; second, I'll offer another review of the nature of the
> "embedded" systems that might be at issue.
> 
> Power Plant (and refinery) construction . . . .
> 
> Remember, power plants and refineries are:
> o Capital intensive
> o Make increased use of computerized process control systems
> o Operate a continuous manufacturing/conversion process employing high
> temperatures and pressures.
> 
> Typical design life of a coal-fired power plant is 40 years.  During
> that period, any number of components *will* fail and *will have to be
> replaced.*  Wouldn't make much sense to put a $500million investment at
> risk 'cause a $20.00 part failed in some inaccessible location.  Thus
> EVERYTHING is accessible.
> 
> You want evidence and I'm not about to take you on a power plant tour
> but even if you've never been inside a power plant the construction
> practice is similar to that found in many other industrial settings and,
> if you've ever been aboard a naval vessel or taken a cruise, ships. 
> These settings are nothing like your home (or even an office) with all
> the infrastructure components nicely hidden behind walls -- pipes are
> exposed and clearly labeled -- power and control cables are laid in
> exposed cable trays and risers.  Electronic components are often mounted
> in racks with easy access from front and back -- probably not at all
> like your computer or home theatre configuration.  All this is to PERMIT
> MAINTENANCE, REPAIR and MODIFICATION.
> 
> So you need to understand that the problem isn't just maintenance, in
> general, or for y2k.  Process plants need to be modified frequently --
> market conditions demand a change in inputs or outputs.  Can't get
> enough sweet crude?  Exxon doesn't close the refinery -- they modify it
> to handle the new feedstock (I got the grand tour from a fellow I knew
> who worked at Exxon's Baton Rouge refinery, years ago).
> 
> Want some pictures?  Here are a few from several "continuous process"
> industries: http://www.powerprocesspiping.com/,
> http://www.bdmechanical.com/ppiping.htm,
> http://silverweb.nf.ca/m&m/cb-p&p.htm, and
> http://www.shambaugh.com/process.htm.
> 
> Now consider the nature of these embedded components.  This has been the
> subject of much discussion in csy2k.  I'd like to suggest that there are
> three broad categories of components in this context:
> 
> o The control system(s) -- SCADA -- one or more intelligent nodes build
> on traditional minicomputer, or more recently, microprocessor-based
> server technology.  These are very accessible -- they're in, adjacent
> to, or very near, the control room.  In an even more modern "distributed
> control system," some of the capability will be located in different
> areas of the plant.  Nevertheless, they still have to be very accessible
> -- stuff breaks -- memories get hard, multibit errors, disk drives fail,
> etc.
> 
> o Remote devices -- the control systems can't run without data and so
> you have dozens to thousands of remotes -- devices that measure process
> parameters (temperature, pressure, mass flow, volumetric flow,
> acceleration and mechanical position (valve position or tank levels))
> and a smaller number of remotes that can act on SCADA commands (start a
> motor, open a valve, etc.)  Though most of these devices are pretty
> dumb, some may have a bit of silicon-based intelligence and therefore
> susceptible to y2k problems.  BUT, they all have to be accessible
> because 1) they malfunction or need to be recalibrated and 2) plant
> modifications often require removal/replacement to accommodate process
> changes.
> 
> o Embedded systems -- I think that the consensus is that the real
> embedded systems are those systems that are not obviously run by a
> computer -- the power plants water chemistry analyzer or the refineries
> gas chromatograph.  These are on the site but they're not in the "plant"
> -- they're in the lab -- very accessible.
> 
> Now "accessible" doesn't always mean you can walk right up and touch
> it!  Guess where the flue gas monitoring remotes (temperature, opacity)
> are located -- top of the boiler or in the stack.  But here's the
> scenario -- opacity indicator increases (flue gas has more smoke in it)
> but the stack gas "looks" clear.  Do you shut down the plan on
> environment limits or do you send a maintenance man to replace the
> remote?
> 
> Now is it possible that conditions would be different at an oil
> refinery.  Sure, like I wrote at the beginning, I'm not really familar
> with these.  But, really, we'd be looking at some obtuse examples --
> imagine that rather than using a tank level indicator to see how much
> gasoline is in a tank, someone came up with the bright idea of putting a
> strain gauge *under* the tank and determing the amount of product in the
> tank but computing the weight on the gauge and using that to compute the
> amount of product.  The device fails and, we'll all agree, it is not
> practical to replace it.
> 
> Does the refinery stop using the tank?  I wouldn't think so.  They
> retrofit a traditional tank level indicator (float) to provide the
> needed information. 
> 
> HTH,
> 
> SAG

----------------------------------
E-Mail: Rob S 
Date: 02-Dec-98
Time: 17:02:18

This message was sent by XFMail
----------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 02:01:35 +0800
To: jim_finder@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Matt Blaze arrested???
Message-ID: <199812021702.SAA16916@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> X-Originating-IP: [208.198.164.2]
> From: "jim finder" 
> To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
> Cc: cryptography@c2.net, mab@research.att.com
> Subject: Matt Blaze arrested???

The originating IP for this hotmail posting is lpwa.com, the Lucent
Personalized Web Assistant.  Ken Williams had posted a URL last week
which described how to send anonymous mail using lpwa as a proxy to
the hotmail service:

> I came across a funny article about a "CIA, DEA, FBI, Lucent 
> Technologies, Replay.com, Seed-bank.com Grand Conspiracy" at
> http://members.tripod.com/~spookbusters/sunnysnooping.htm

This is easy to do and provides moderate levels of anonymity.  You set
lpwa.com as your proxy in the browser settings, and then set up your
hotmail account and send the mail.  Maybe Jim Finder was just testing
the idea.

Blaze has attracted one or two cranks who try to harrass him, and this
may be another attempt to make some trouble for him.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bruce Schneier 
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 08:40:05 +0800
To: Chuck McManis 
Message-ID: <199812030018.SAA18851@baal.visi.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 03:42 PM 12/2/98 -0800, Chuck McManis wrote:
>At 09:46 PM 12/2/98 +0100, Anonymous wrote:
>>Now that L5 has been patented, will you and your colleagues at Jaws
>>Technology make the L5 algorithm details available to the professional
>>cryptography community for independant verification. Could you also
>>provide the Canadian and/or US patent numbers?
>
>L5 has NOT been patented. The company simply announced it had been
>"accepted" which is in itself a non-sequitor since patents aren't
>"accepted." My guess is that the patent was filled and the application was
>"allowed." This means that the information in the patent has passed the
>examiner's preliminary examination for fitness (which is to say it isn't
>one of the things that are disallowed by the patent office.) This actually
>doesn't mean SQUAT since thousands of patents get "allowed" and then
>"returned" because they don't meet more stringent tests such as
>non-obviousness, do what the claims say they do, restate prior art, etc,
>etc. However I do believe that disclosure at this point would be premature
>because some of the things that examiner may ask may require the patent be
>rewritten substantially. 

It could mean that a set of claims were allowed.  I have been involved in
several patents.  Generally, you submit the patent and then a year and a 
half later the patent office responds.  This is the "first office action."
Sometimes
the claims are rejeted, sometimes some of them are allowed.  Then you send
a letter back to the patent office, and maybe draft new claims.  Eventually
(there
may be a second office action) a series of claims are allowed, meaning that
they will be included in the patent.  It can be another six months before the
patent issues.

I expect that's what the L5 people were talking about.

Bruce
**********************************************************************
Bruce Schneier, President, Counterpane Systems     Phone: 612-823-1098
101 E Minnehaha Parkway, Minneapolis, MN  55419      Fax: 612-823-1590
           Free crypto newsletter.  See:  http://www.counterpane.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ulf =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=F6ller?= 
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 02:32:09 +0800
To: Eric Cordian 
Message-ID: <19981202183113.18018@ulf.mali.sub.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> Who are you?  
> 
> While the originating IP of this message is owned by Bell Labs, 

208.198.164.2 alias lpwa.com is their web anonymizer.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 05:17:14 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: A person who counsels to fail to comply with the Act
Message-ID: <199812022015.VAA09805@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





Check out this bit of american slavery:

"Failing to register or otherwise comply with the
Military Selective Service Act is, upon conviction,
punishable by a fine of up to $250,000, impris-
onment for up to five years, or both. A person
who knowingly counsels, aids or abets another to
fail to comply with the Act is subject to the same
penalties."

www.sss.gov/teach3.pdf (for teachers, note)




And this anti-FIJA bit: 

Except as may be authorized by a judge, no person or entity shall
distribute or attempt to distribute any written materials tending to
influence, interfere, or impede the lawful discharge of the duties of a
trial juror, or communicate or attempt to communicate with any person
summoned, drawn, or serving as a trial juror in the Superior Courts in Los
Angeles for purposes of influencing, interfering, or impeding the lawful
discharge of the duties of a trial juror in, or within 50 yards of any
public entrance to, the facilities within which the Superior Courts conduct
jury trials within this County. 

(Rule 5.2 added and effective 7/1/97.) 
http://www.co.la.ca.us/courts/superior-auc/CourtRules/Chapter5.htm#5.2














  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Blanc" 
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 14:05:46 +0800
To: 
Subject: RE: I Got Mine
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <000201be1e81$1d19d800$7d8195cf@blanc>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



 From Greg Broiles:

: Just as a reasonable person will likely listen cautiously to an accused
: person proclaiming their innocence, a reasonable person should also listen
: cautiously when the prosecution proclaims someone's guilt.
..........................................


Thanks for the advice, it hadn't occurred to me they might be spoofing. 

(On a piece of paper they asked me to write down some of the statements I made
regarding my limited association with Toto (for the record, in lieu of a court
appearance), and asked that I also explain what I mean by "spoofing", as I had
thus described what Toto might have been up to with those incendiary messages.)

To their credit, I will say that they only told me more about Toto's activities
during the course of our discussions regarding the point in time when someone is
likely to be arrested based on their public expressions.   They related that
Toto had sent numerous threatening messages to the Mounties, and that although
he had alarming info out on his website that was not a problem; that they took
action only after he actually planted a bomb in one of their buildings.  Then
when I asked them as to why he was being tried in this area, rather than Canada
or Texas or Arizona, they brought up that Toto had threatened the judge trying
Jim's case (and also his other email regarding Billg).

At least they were not offensive, but polite and pleasant, but it's true one
should keep one's mind on the facts - the pertinent facts, the pertinence *of*
the facts, and no other facts.   I myself, of course, would never lie.  Unless I
had to. : )

"Well, it depends on what your definition of  'is'  is . . . "  What a great
Leader, and a Lawyer, showing us how to deal with the Law.

   ..
Blanc




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 05:25:50 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: L5 algorithm patent, and free eval version
Message-ID: <199812022046.VAA14983@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





On Mon, 5 Oct 1998, Joey Roa wrote:

> My name is Joey Roa and I am Professional Services Team Leader of JAWS
> Technologies Inc.  I have recently become aware of your list.  A colleague
> ...
> The L5 algorithm is not yet published as we are waiting assurances from out
> patent attorneys that we have some protection for marketing purposes.

Hello Joey et all,

Now that L5 has been patented, will you and your colleagues at Jaws
Technology make the L5 algorithm details available to the professional
cryptography community for independant verification. Could you also
provide the Canadian and/or US patent numbers?

(Announcement of L5 patent:
)

To cypherpunks readers, the free "shareware" version is available from:


I think the coderpunks readers might enjoy playing with this program. It
has proven entertaining so far for me.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 05:41:27 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: SASMF, Part 2
Message-ID: <199812022055.VAA16481@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Space Aliens Stole My Freedom, Part 2
Know Your Spineless SheepleNeighbor(TM)

If the banks can be required to Know Their Customers, maybe you
can be required to Know Your Neighbor. This is already an 
established system in Cuba, so importing it should be cheap,
fast and easy.

-----

"Know Your Neighbor" Requirements

AGENCY: Federal Bureau of Investigation

ACTION: Notice of proposed rulemaking.

SUMMARY: The FBI is proposing to issue regulations requiring
FBI-supervised citizen-residents to develop and maintain 
"Know Your Neighbor" programs. As proposed, the regulations would 
require each citizen-resident to develop a program designed to 
determine the identity of its neighbors; determine its neighbors' 
sources of gossip and political views; determine the normal and 
expected comings and goings of its neighbors; monitor household 
activity for things that are inconsistent with those normal and 
expected activities; and report any activities of its customers that 
are determined to be suspicious, in accordance with the FBI's existing 
suspicious activity reporting regulations. By requiring citizen-
residents to determine the identity of their neighbors, as well as to 
obtain knowledge regarding the legitimate activities of their neighbors, 
the proposed regulations will reduce the likelihood that citizen-
residents will become unwitting participants in illicit activities 
conducted or attempted by their neighbors. It also will level the 
playing field between citizen-residents that already have adopted 
formal Know Your Neighbor programs and those that have not.

---

Minimum steps to take to comply with the Know Your Customer rule.

Identify the neighbor.

Paragraph (d)(2)(i) requires that the Know Your Neighbor program 
provide a system for determining the true identity of prospective 
neighbors. If a citizen-resident has reasonable cause to believe 
that it lacks sufficient information to know the identity of an 
existing neighbor, paragraph (d)(4)(ii)(A) also requires that the 
program provide a system for determining the identity of that 
neighbor.

---

Determine the source of people and property.

Paragraph (d)(2)(ii) requires that the Know Your Neighbor program 
provide a system for determining the source of a neighbor's 
possessions and household members. The amount of information needed to 
do this can depend on the type of neighbor in question.


Determine normal and expected comings and goings.

Paragraph (d)(2)(iii) requires that the Know Your Neighbor program 
provide a system for determining a neighbor's normal and expected 
comings and goings involving the citizen-resident. A citizen-resident's 
understanding of a neighbor's normal and expected comings and goings 
should be based on information obtained both when a neighbor 
relationship is established and during a reasonable period of time 
thereafter. It also should be based on normal comings and goings for 
similarly situated neighbors.  Without this information, a citizen-
resident is unable to identify suspicious comings and goings.


Determine if activity should be reported.

Once an activity is identified as inconsistent with normal and expected
behavior, paragraph (d)(2)(v) requires that a citizen-resident
determine if the activity warrants the filing of a Suspicious Activity
Report. This is consistent with a citizen-resident's existing 
obligations under 12 CFR 353.3(a).

---

A.	Reasons for and objectives of the proposed rule.

The proposed Know Your Neighbor rule is designed to deter and detect
neighborhood crimes, such as plots to establish "Constitutional
government," gathering of information about alleged "crimes" committed
by government agents, and meeting to discuss subversive literature
such as the Constitution.


B.	Requirements of the proposed rule.

The proposed rule would require citizen-residents to identify 
their neighbors, determine their neighbors' normal and expected 
activities, determine their neighbors' sources of possessions and
household members, monitor neighbors' activities to find those that are 
not normal and expected, and, for activities that are not normal and 
expected, identify which are suspicious.

Know Your Neighbor monitoring would be similar to monitoring that 
citizen-residents already do. For example, citizen-residents 
monitor neighbor activities to ensure that comings and goings
exceeding 100 per month are reported under the Neighborhood Secrecy 
Act, to ensure that neighbors do not overuse their driveways and
sidewalks, and to ensure that required comings and goings accurate and 
timely. 

-----

Editor's Note:

The worst part of this parody is that it's true. Cuba, like most
communist dictatorships, has a highly developed system of block
watchers. They are responsible for all of the foregoing, making
their reports to the secret police.

The U.S. government is instituting a system of "bank account watchers,"
toadies in the supine, excruciatingly closely regulated banking
industry, who will have to "know you," get to know your normal and
expected bank account activity, and watch your bank account activity
to detect and report "Suspicious Transactions."

Welkomm to Orwell's 1984. Welkomm to Nazi Amerika. Hold your arm out
straight... there... this will just sting a bit...

Does anyone not get it yet?

There is _nothing_ in the Constitution that gives the federal
government any power to subject the American people to 
financial surveillance, to restrict or require reporting of
cash transactions in any quantities, to restrict or encumber
firearms ownership to anyone not actually serving time in a 
prison, or to do _any_ of the onerous abominations being thrust 
upon us in new and terrible forms almost daily.

Does anyone not get it yet?

The federal government is forfeiting, just as fast as its
android minions can think up new ways to do it, its last
shreds of any claim to legitimacy. They may as well fly
the skull and crossbones over government buildings. Their
occupation army of marauding thugs is _here_, bringing to
ghastly life the very words of the bill of particulars
laid against King George III of England by the Founders
of this now-decayed, now-corrupt, hollow Republic, in the
Declaration of Independence.

Do they _never_ learn? (Obviously not)

Will we _have_ to go through it all again? (Obviously yes)

Has the line been crossed? (Obviously yes)

Has force been initiated? (Obviously yes)

Has the federal government placed itself outside the law?
(Obviously yes)

So be it.

Cry "Havoc!" and let loose the dogs of war.

The Revolution is upon us. We have nothing to lose but our 
imminent slavery. Sam Adams has a piece of advice: Keep your
own counsel. Translation: Do your own thing and don't look
to prop up your courage with the flawed courage and lack of
trustworthiness of others. Don't be a groupie -- be a
commando.

Required re-reading:

http://www.dhc.net/~toarms/henry.htm

FuckingFedUpMonger




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Greg Broiles 
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 15:14:07 +0800
To: Blanc 
Subject: RE: I Got Mine
In-Reply-To: <000201be1e81$1d19d800$7d8195cf@blanc>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Wed, 2 Dec 1998, Blanc wrote:

> (On a piece of paper they asked me to write down some of the statements I made
> regarding my limited association with Toto (for the record, in lieu of a court
> appearance)

My evidence books are packed in a moving box (sigh) at the moment, so
please take this with a grain of salt, but the only reason I see to ask
you to write anything down is to use it against you, either as a witness
or as a defendant. Your written statement is considered hearsay and
wouldn't be admissible at Toto's trial .. unless the prosecution was using
it to impeach you in the event that you testified, in which case it would
be admissible solely for the purpose of making you look like a liar. (If
the statement also tends to cast Toto in a poor light, the prosecution
probably won't lose any sleep over the spillover effects on the jury.)

If either side in a trial (especially a criminal trial) thinks you've got
something useful to say, they're going to need to put you on the witness
stand in front of the jury/judge and let you make your statements, and be
cross-examined, in person. Statements made out of court won't be
admissible to prove the truth of the matter they're discussing, unless the
situation happens to fit into one of a series of narrow exceptions.

One of the biggest exceptions is called "statements made by the opposing
party", aka "statements by the defendant" in a criminal trial. Another is
to impeach a witness with a prior inconsistent statement, where the prior
statement is inconsistent with their testimony at trial.

It smells like a setup to me.

--
Greg Broiles
gbroiles@netbox.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 06:58:53 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: SASMF, Part 1
Message-ID: <199812022206.XAA29326@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Space Aliens Stole My Freedom, Part 1
Know Your Gutless SheepleCustomer(TM)

Let's just take a peek at how the new FDIC proposed reg would
look if transposed into an FCC setting:

-----

"Know Your Customer" Requirements

AGENCY: Federal Communications Commission

ACTION: Notice of proposed rulemaking.

SUMMARY: The FCC is proposing to issue regulations requiring
FCC-supervised communications carriers to develop and maintain 
"Know Your Customer" programs. As proposed, the regulations would 
require each carrier to develop a program designed to determine the 
identity of its customers; determine its customers' sources of 
communicated information; determine the normal and expected 
calls of its customers; monitor account activity for calls that are 
inconsistent with those normal and expected callss; and report any 
calls of its customers that are determined to be suspicious, in 
accordance with the FCC's existing suspicious activity reporting 
regulations. By requiring communication carriers to determine the 
identity of their customers, as well as to obtain knowledge regarding 
the legitimate activities of their customers, the proposed regulations 
will reduce the likelihood that communications carriers will become 
unwitting participants in illicit activities conducted or attempted by 
their customers. It also will level the playing field between
carriers that already have adopted formal Know Your Customer programs
and those that have not.

---

Minimum steps to take to comply with the Know Your Customer rule.

Identify the customer.

If a communication carrier offers private leased communication services, 
it is important that the carrier understand a customer's personal and 
business background, source of information to be communicated, and 
intended use of the private leased communication services.

---

The extent of the information regarding the customer that may be 
necessary to fulfill the carrier's Know Your Customer obligations 
should depend on a risk-based assessment of the customer and the 
calls that are expected to occur, and should be addressed within the 
communication carrier's Know Your Customer program.

---

Determine the source of information.

Paragraph (d)(2)(ii) requires that the Know Your Customer program 
provide a system for determining the source of a customer's 
information. The amount of information needed to do this can depend 
on the type of customer in question.


Determine normal and expected calls.

Paragraph (d)(2)(iii) requires that the Know Your Customer program 
provide a system for determining a customer's normal and expected 
calls involving the communication carrier. A carrier's understanding 
of a customer's normal and expected calls should be based on 
information obtained both when an account is opened and during a 
reasonable period of time thereafter. It also should be based on 
normal calls for similarly situated customers.  Without this 
information, an institution is unable to identify suspicious 
calls.

Monitor the calls. Paragraph (d)(2)(iv) requires that the
Know Your Customer program provide a system for monitoring, on an 
ongoing basis, the calls conducted by customers to identify 
calls 'that are inconsistent with the normal and expected calls for 
particular customers or for customers in the same or similar 
categories or classes.' The proposed regulation does not require that 
every call of every customer be reviewed. Rather, it requires that a 
financial institution develop a monitoring system that is commensurate 
with the risks presented by the accounts maintained at that 
institution.


Determine if call should be reported.

Once a call is identified as inconsistent with normal and expected
calls, paragraph (d)(2)(v) requires that a communication carrier
determine if the call warrants the filing of a Suspicious Activity
Report. This is consistent with an carrier's existing obligations
under 12 CFR 353.3(a).

---

A.	Reasons for and objectives of the proposed rule.

The proposed Know Your Customer rule is designed to deter and detect
communication crimes, such as obscene phone calls, getting tax advice, 
and discussing the Constitution.

B.	Requirements of the proposed rule.

The proposed rule would require communication carrier to identify 
their customers, determine their customers' normal and expected 
calls, determine their customers' sources of information communicated 
in calls, monitor calls to find those that are not normal and 
expected, and, for calls that are not normal and expected, identify 
which are suspicious.

Know Your Customer monitoring would be similar to monitoring that 
communication carriers already do. For example, communication carriers 
monitor customer calls to ensure that calling volumes exceeding 
10,000 per month are reported under the Communications Secrecy Act, to 
ensure that customers do not overuse their telephones, and to ensure 
that required calls are accurate and timely. 

-----

Editor's Note:

Putting this in an FCC context makes it pretty clearly bizarre
and unconstitutional, doesn't it? Where do these fuckers get
off pulling this Nazi shit? Just to carry it all the way into
Wonderland, we've drawn up this questionnaire, also in the 
telephone context:

Sample Questionnaire

1. Is this a __residential or __business account?

2. Approximately how many calls do you expect per month?

    a. Incoming ____

    b. Outgoing ____

3. List the subject matter of expected calls (use extra
   sheets if necessary: ____

4. List the telephone numbers from which you expect to
   receive calls (use extra sheets, etc.) ____

5. List the telephone numbers to which you expect to 
   place calls (use extra, etc.):____

6. List the names of people with whom you expect to speak:

7. List the Social Security numbers of people with whom
   you expect to speak: ____

8. List the political organizations to which you belong:

9. List the political organizations to which people with
   whom you expect to speak belong: ____

10. Are any of the organizations in (8) or (9) on the 
    Attorney General's list? Yes__  No__

11. If the answer to (10) was Yes, do you have a current
    and valid waiver for that (those) organization(s)?
    Yes__  No__

12. If the answer to (11) was No, proceed directly to
    federal prison. Do not pass urine; do not collect
    $200 from any ATM.

13. Do you regularly call your mother?  Yes__  No__

14. If the answer to (13) was Yes, list the topics you
    commonly talk about with your mother (use extra, etc.)

15. What are your sources of information for your
    telephone conversations?____

16. List all facts known to you, about which you expect to
    speak in your telephone calls:____

17. List all times at which you expect to receive or place
    calls:____

18. Attach transcripts of all conversations you expect to
    have. In lieu of transcripts, recordings may be attached.

19. Staple this form to your head, jam a toilet plunger
    handle up your ass, waddle to the nearest telephone,
    dial "1" and say, "I'm ready. Pick me up." Wait at
    your front door.

-----

FuckingFedUpMonger




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Eric Cordian 
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 13:21:25 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Fun at US Customs
Message-ID: <199812030507.XAA23418@wire.insync.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Apparently, US Customs doesn't even need a warrant to detain you for days
without the opportunity to talk to an attorney, x-ray you, pump your
stomach, give you laxatives, chain you to a hospital bed, or insert their
arms up to the elbow in one of your body openings. 

Are laws of other Western nations similar?  While I can understand
strip-searching travelers on occasion, the rest of this stuff seems a tad
much, especially in the absense of anything resembling due process.

Declan didn't write this, so I will post the whole thing. :)

-----
WASHINGTON (AP) -- Returning to Chicago from Jamaica, Gwendolyn
Richards was plucked from a line of air travelers by a Customs Service
inspector and ordered into a bare, windowless room. Over the next five
hours, she was strip-searched, handcuffed, X-rayed, and probed
internally by a doctor.
 
The armed Customs officers who led Richards in handcuffs through
O'Hare International Airport and drove her to a hospital for
examination suspected she might be smuggling drugs. They found
nothing.
 
``I was humiliated -- I couldn't believe it was happening,'' said
Richards, who is black and has joined a civil rights lawsuit against
Customs. ``They had no reason to think I had drugs.''
 
Richards, 27, isn't alone.
 
Officers last year ordered partial or full strip searches or X-rays
for 2,447 airline passengers, and found drugs on 27 percent of them,
according to figures compiled by the Customs Service.
 
Customs officials say tough tactics are necessary to catch the growing
number of smugglers who swallow cocaine-filled balloons, insert
packages of heroin into their body cavities, even hide drugs in a
hollow leg or under cover of a fake pregnancy.
 
``We still have a major drug problem in this country,'' Customs
Commissioner Raymond Kelly said in an interview Wednesday. ``We have
to do this.''
 
Richards and others who have sued Customs have alleged they were
targeted because of their race. Sixty percent of those pulled aside
last year for body searches or X-rays were black or Hispanic, Customs
figures show. Thirty-three percent of Hispanics who were searched were
found to have drugs compared with 31 percent of blacks and 26 percent
of whites.
 
Kelly said race isn't a factor. ``There are higher risk countries and
higher risk flights,'' he said. ``Those flights may be more populated
by a particular ethnic group.''
 
Last year, the Customs Service seized 858 pounds of cocaine and 803
pounds of heroin attached to or inside international air travelers'
bodies, officials said. More than 70 percent of the heroin seized at
airports was smuggled that way.
 
Acknowledging that searches ``can get pretty traumatic,'' Kelly said
Customs is reviewing its policies and experimenting with new
technology that might reduce the number of body searches. The review
comes after several lawsuits and complaints from travelers who say
they suffered abusive treatment and hours of confinement. For
instance:
 
--A Florida mother says her baby was born prematurely because Customs
officials forced her to take a prescription laxative when she was
seven months pregnant. In a lawsuit filed last month, Janneral Denson,
25, said she was taken from the Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood
International Airport and shackled to a hospital bed for two days so
inspectors could watch her bowel movements. She says her son, born 12
days later, suffered damage.
 
--Two Jamaican-born U.S. citizens each filed a $500,000 claim in
September over body cavity searches and X-rays in Tampa, Fla. One of
the women learned afterwards she was pregnant and agonized that her
fetus might have been harmed, according to their attorney, Warren Hope
Dawson. The baby was born healthy. Customs policy requires a pregnancy
test before a woman is X-rayed, but Dawson said the pregnant woman was
not tested.
 
--A 51-year-old widow returning from an around-the-world trip was held
for 22 hours at a San Francisco hospital, x-rayed and given the same
powerful laxative. Amanda Buritica of Port Chester, N.Y., won a
$451,001 lawsuit last February. A Boston nurse, Bosede Adedeji, won
$215,000 in a similar lawsuit in 1991.
 
Customs officials note that fewer than 2 percent of the 68 million
fliers who pass through Customs each year have their luggage opened.
Far fewer -- about 49,000 people -- are personally searched, usually
with a pat down.
 
The 1,772 strip searches last year ranged from people told to remove
their socks to passengers like Richards who were ordered to take off
their underwear and bend over. Strip searches are performed by
officers of the same gender.
 
The Customs review found 19 passengers who were subjected to pelvic or
rectal exams by doctors while inspectors watched. Drugs were found in
12 of those cases.
 
Congress and courts have given Customs broad authority to search for
drugs, weapons and other illegal imports.
 
The Supreme Court ruled that Customs officers at airports and border
crossings don't need the probable cause or warrants that police need
to search possessions. Customs officers can perform a strip search
based on ``reasonable suspicion'' that someone might be hiding
something illegal.
 
A Customs handbook obtained by The Associated Press advises officers
that reasonable suspicion usually requires a combination of factors,
including someone who: appears nervous, wears baggy clothing, gives
vague or contradictory answers about travel plans, acts unusually
polite or argumentative, wears sunglasses or acts sick. Race isn't
cited.
 
Customs officers can detain people for hours, even days, without
allowing them a telephone call to a lawyer or relative or charging
them with a crime. Inspectors say they keep detainees from making
calls so that drug associates aren't tipped off. Generally, if someone
is detained for eight hours or more, a federal prosecutor is notified.
 
Richards is among more than 80 black females who filed a class-action
lawsuit claiming they were singled out for strip searches at O'Hare
because of race and gender.
 
The plaintiffs include a 15-year-old girl, a mentally retarded woman,
and a woman who uses a wheelchair. Many decided to sue after seeing
news reports on Chicago's WMAQ-TV about strip searches of black women.
 
The agency has hired an outside contractor to review how inspectors
deal with the public, and is exploring ways to make the system less
hostile. In a test at Miami and New York airports, some passengers
selected for strip searches are given the option of having an X-ray
instead. The service is also studying new imaging technology that
shows things hidden under people's clothes.
 
Customs officers seek passengers' written consent for an X-ray, but it
isn't required. Some travelers say they felt coerced.
 
Las Vegas police officer Rich Cashton said a Customs inspector who
stopped him at Los Angeles International Airport last year grew angry
when Cashton asked what would happen if he refused an X-ray.
 
``He said, 'If you don't sign this form, I'm going to take you down to
the hospital and pump your stomach,'' Cashton recalled. ``He was using
that threat as intimidation to make me sign a consent form, which is
definitely illegal.''
 
Cashton, who identified himself as a police officer, was let go.

-- 
Eric Michael Cordian 0+
O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division
"Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 12:46:58 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Fwd: Code Red privacy workshops
Message-ID: <199812030425.UAA01622@smtp.well.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>Date: Sat, 28 Nov 98 23:19:16 0
>From: simon davies 
>Subject: Code Red privacy workshops
>
>
>
>
>PLEASE DISTRIBUTE
>
>PRIVACY INTERNATIONAL ANNOUNCES 
>THE "CODE RED" PRIVACY WORKSHOPS
>
>
>Friends and colleagues,
>
>In 1999, Privacy International - the international privacy 
>campaign organisation - will host a series of privacy workshops to 
>be  held in Brighton throughout the year on the second weekend of 
>each month.
>
>The workshops will have four purposes :
>
>1.  To brainstorm current privacy (and privacy related) issues;
>
>2.  To plan future events and campaigns;
>
>3.  To provide occasional training sessions in technical issues, media 
>skills, campaigning etc, and,
>
>4.  To give us all an opportunity to network and to have huge 
>amounts of evening/night fun in sunny Brighton.
>
>We called the workshops "Code Red" because.....well.....because it 
>sounds cool.  No other reason.
>
>We chose Brighton as the venue for the workshops because of the 
>mass of PI members and supporters there who can offer a billet (i.e. 
>free accommodation if you can stand sleeping with the cat/ dog/ 
>mainframe humm/ sound system/ travelling hippies etc etc.).
>
>The workshops are open to campaigners, IT experts, academics, journalists
and  
>anyone involved in the pursuit of privacy protection. 
>Chatham House rules will apply to the workshops. 
>
>The 1999 dates will be : 
>
>     January 9 & 10
>     February 13 & 14
>     March 13 & 14
>     April 10 & 11
>     May 8 & 9
>     June 12 & 13
>     July 10 & 11
>     August 7 & 8
>     September 11 & 12
>     October 9 & 10
>     November 13 & 14
>     December 11 & 12
>
>
>The Standing Agenda will be :
>
>Saturday 13.00 - 14.00    Amateur buffet lunch and guest speaker
>
>         14.00 - 18.00 :  Briefing and discussion of curent issues
>
>         18.00 -    :     pubbing, dining and clubbing in Brighton
>
>Sunday   11.00 - 15.00 :  Follow-up from Saturday, campaign strategy, 
>ad-hoc training sessions, comprehensive briefing sessions, and forward 
>planning  (can be extend if required).
>
>Within this agenda, the subject matter is flexible, and the sessions 
>are likely to cover a range of themes including internet privacy, 
>censorship, data protection law, workplace surveillance, 
>communications interception, police powers, national security and 
>visual surveillance.
>
>Anyone wanting to participate should call Simon Davies on 0958 466 
>552. There will be no cost, though a contribution of a few quid for 
>food would be gratefully received if you can afford it.
>
>BLOCK OUT THE DATES IN YOUR YOUR DIARY NOW !!
>
>We're looking forward to seeing you.
>
>Best wishes
>
>Simon Davies
>Director,
>Privacy International  
>
>email  simon@privacy.org
>
>www.privacy.org/pi/
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "COM PLAIN" 
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 16:35:54 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: What's Down ....!!!!
Message-ID: <19981203080744.10865.qmail@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



In this letter i wanna know some tricks how to take revange, of a 
operator by hacking his code ,, can you help me ??? in alamak chat

www.alamak.com





______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 13:20:28 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Fwd: FC: Emergency Powers and National Emergencies
Message-ID: <199812030505.VAA11806@smtp.well.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>X-Sender: declan@mail.well.com
>X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 
>Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 23:56:10 -0500
>To: politech@vorlon.mit.edu
>From: Declan McCullagh 
>Subject: FC: Emergency Powers and National Emergencies
>Sender: owner-politech@vorlon.mit.edu
>Reply-To: declan@well.com
>X-Loop: politech@vorlon.mit.edu
>X-URL: Politech is at http://www.well.com/~declan/politech/
>
>"The President has the power to seize property, organize and control the
>means of production, seize commodities, assign military forces abroad, call
>reserve forces amounting to 2 1/2 million men to duty, institute martial
>law, seize and control all menas of transportation, regulate all private
>enterprise, restrict travel, and in a plethora of particular ways, control
>the lives of all Americans...
>
>"Most [of these laws] remain a a potential source of virtually unlimited
>power for a President should he choose to activate them. It is possible
>that some future President could exercise this vast authority in an attempt
>to place the United States under authoritarian rule.
>
>"While the danger of a dictatorship arising through legal means may seem
>remote to us today, recent history records Hitler seizing control through
>the use of the emergency powers provisions contained in the laws of the
>Weimar Republic."
>
>   --Joint Statement, Sens. Frank Church (D-ID) and Charles McMathias (R-MD)
>     September 30, 1973
>
>
>I came across this and the Senate special committee's 1973 report on
>Emergency Powers Statutes in Time Magazine's library. Powerful stuff.
>
>-Declan
>
>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>POLITECH -- the moderated mailing list of politics and technology
>To subscribe: send a message to majordomo@vorlon.mit.edu with this text:
>subscribe politech
>More information is at http://www.well.com/~declan/politech/
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 08:26:58 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199812022357.AAA25807@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Anonymous wrote:

>Check out this bit of american slavery:
>
>"Failing to register or otherwise comply with the
>Military Selective Service Act is, upon conviction,
>punishable by a fine of up to $250,000, impris-
>onment for up to five years, or both. A person
>who knowingly counsels, aids or abets another to
>fail to comply with the Act is subject to the same
>penalties."

Even more interesting is the fact that Congress was 
going to do away with the Selective Service a few years 
ago but President Clinton (accused of draft dodging 
during the Vietnam War) opposed getting rid of it.  




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mixmaster 
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 22:14:28 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <577a9c19504c58a7eb1caed621c66fa1@anonymous>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 12:24:01 +0800 (CST)
>From: Bernardo B. Terrado 
>To: cypherpunks@toad.com, coderpunks@toad.com
>Subject: MERRY CHRISTMAS! guys!

Fuck Christmas, Bernardo "Go Fuck Yourself" Terrado.

You and those bastards in the black helicopters can suck my Christmas cock.

>sorry if you're angry with this

Why the fuck would I be angry?  Go fuck yourself, Bernardo.

>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>"If a student is particular about his studies, especially while he is too
>young to know which are useful and which are not, we shall say he is no
>lover of learning or of wisdom; just as, if he were dainty about his food,
>we should say he was not hungry or fond of eating, but had a poor 
>appetite. " ---- PLATO

Wasn't Plato that cocksucker who didn't pay his taxes to THE MAN?

>By the way, it's Bernie not Bernardo.
>``````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````

Oh FUCK!  My apologies, Bernardo.  If I had known you preferred "Bernie", then I would have told you to go fuck your mother instead of yourself.

Warmest fucking regards to you and yer moms,

-- PureFuck
-- finger HillarysAsshole@whitehouse.gov for a good time





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: HyperReal-Anon 
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 14:39:19 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Fun at US Customs
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>Las Vegas police officer Rich Cashton said a Customs inspector who
>stopped him at Los Angeles International Airport last year grew angry
>when Cashton asked what would happen if he refused an X-ray.
>
>``He said, 'If you don't sign this form, I'm going to take you down to
>the hospital and pump your stomach,'' Cashton recalled. ``He was using
>that threat as intimidation to make me sign a consent form, which is
>definitely illegal.''
>
>Cashton, who identified himself as a police officer, was let go.

"Sir, we'll have to ask you to come with us."

"What is the problem, officer?"

"We have reason to believe that you are bringing contraband into this 
country. Please remove your clothing and bend over."

"Comrade, surely you must be mistaken! I am a loyal citizen!"

"Remove your clothing and bend over or we'll do it for you, Libertarian
scum."

"Libertarian? You are mistaken, comrade! I am a loyal citizen! I am a
card-carrying party member!" *shows card*

"That's fine, Officer Cashton, if that is your real name, but how can
we be sure that you are who you claim to be?"

"My biometrics, of course, comrade!" *he's scanned*

"Sorry for the mixup, Comrade Cashton. We're about to go find some 
pretty young 15 year old girls to strip search and do body cavity
searches on, then temporarily plug their body cavities so that they
do not use them in indecent ways or for smuggling contraband."

"Comrade, whatever do you mean?"

"Are you sure you're a fellow jack booted thug? Do you have your manual?
You must have your manual at all times! Fine. You may borrow mine, 
comrade. Read the section titled 'Rape of the Citizenry'."

"Ah, I understand now, comrade. I was not aware that such actions were
permitted. Let's go."

***Fifteen minutes later***

Young woman 1: (crying) "What have we done, officers? I am loyal!"

Young woman 2: (sobs incoherently)

Customs Officer: "You are suspected of smuggling contraband into this
country! You are traitors!"

Young woman 1: "My sister and I most certaintly are NOT traitors!"

Customs Officer: "Then prove it. Remove your clothing and submit to
a body cavity search. Officer Cashton? Take your pick."

*searches are performed*

Customs Officer: "Now, ladies, we have concerns that you may attempt
to smuggle contraband out after the body cavity search is performed."

Young woman 2: (sobs incoherently)

Young woman 1: (crying louder) "But there is no contraband here!
How can we smuggle it out?"

Officer Cashton: (removing a bag of cocaine from his pocket and 
throwing it at the women) "Yes there is."

Customs Officer: "Ah, I see you are a quick study, Comrade Cashton!
Now ladies, just to make sure you don't smuggle anything out in your 
body cavities, we've invited the ground crew here to fill them and 
lead you naked in chains to your flight after they tire of your
company."

Officer Cashton and Customs Officer together: (giving a Nazi-style 
salute) "Heil Klinton! Heil Reno! Heil Freeh!"

......

StatistMonger




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 13:46:03 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: I Got Mine
Message-ID: <199812030527.GAA29380@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Hello, I'm Special Agent Murfrock of the IRS and this is Special 
Agent Prenfrew. We'd like to speak with you about C. J. Parker, 
maybe known to you as "Toto" or "TruthMonger..."

Sorry, I don't recognize any of those. Isn't Toto the dog?

The dog?

Yes, Dorothy's dog in... (stops when he notices that the agents are
scribbling furiously in their notebooks)

May we come in?

No, I was just about to go to sleep. I'm not well.

Sorry to hear that. We have an e-mail here that you sent to Toto, 
and another he sent back to you...

May I see those? (takes the printouts)

Sorry, doesn't ring a bell.

Well, if you look at those headers, the ones circled in red, you
will see that...

You must be kidding! There are more people forging e-mail headers
than live in St. Louis! Everybody knows that.

Would you mind if we just come in for a moment?

Yes, I would. I told you, I am going to sleep.

Would you mind if we look at your computer?

Why would you want to do that?

Well if you didn't send or receive these messages, you have 
nothing to worry about.

I don't see any reason to do that.

We can get a warrant, very quickly, as a matter of fact. If you
cooperate, things will go better for you.

I love to cooperate. I want to cooperate. I am cooperating to the
fullest extent I believe is required of me. Ask me something that
makes sense and I'll answer it.

Have you ever heard of a group called the Cypherpunks?

It rings a bell.

Are you a member?

No.

How do you explain the fact that we found your e-mail address on
a Cypherpunks membership list in a computer we seized?

I have no idea. I don't join organizations.

Are you a member of the Majordomo organization?

No. The only majordomo I've ever heard of is a mail list manager.

Where have you seen this Majordomo?

Oh, everywhere. I think it's worldwide in scope.

(scribble scribble)

It's some kind of utility program. Everybody uses it.

(scribbling stops)
What can you tell us about it?

Nothing, really. If you want to get on a mail list you send a
"subscribe" message to a majordomo. If you want to get off, I
think you send an "unscrive" message.

Have you ever done that?

Maybe. I don't recall. Anyone can submit your e-mail address 
to lists, so you don't even have to subscribe to be on an 
e-mail list. And there's so much spam these days that I don't 
recognize half the stuff I get. 

Spam? (the agents look at each other)

Junk e-mail. I delete most of my e-mail without even reading it.
Sometimes my email program crashes and it all gets deleted before
I can look at it.

(scribble scribble)
How many lists have you joined?

I don't remember. I never paid any attention to those things,
and since I banged my head three months ago, I haven't been
remembering a lot of things.

(scribble scribble)
So, are you denying being a member of the Cypherpunks?

I don't know what that means.

Have you ever subscribed to the Cypherpunks e-mail list?

I have no idea.

You have no idea? You don't remember?

I don't know what I've subscribed to, unsubscribed from,
what I get, don't get. E-mail is a complete mess and I
ignore most of it. I'm really not very good at those
things.

May we look?

No.

Are you going to make us get a warrant?

Get what you like. My disk crashed last week and I threw it away.
Lost everything. In fact I just formatted my new disk and the 
only data on it is manuscripts for the columns I write.

Columns?

I write for a magazine and a couple of newspapers.

(oh shit)
(scribble scribble)
Oh yeah? Which ones?

I don't think that's appropriate.

Well, we'll be back. Here's my card in case you think of anything
you'd like to tell us.

Sure.

One more thing. Have you ever been invited to join something
called The Circle of Eunuchs, e-u-n-u-c-h-s?

I don't recall ever hearing of anything like that.

Do you know who Tim May is?

Nope. Sounds like a real common name, though.

How about Blanc?

Is that French?

Never mind. Thanks. We'll be seeing you.

(I don't _think_ so)

-----

AmnesiaMonger




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: info@chemweb.com
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 23:25:56 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Welcome to ChemWeb.com
Message-ID: <199812031440.GAA07048@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Dear Dr cypherpunks cypherpunks

Congratulations.

Your registration has been successful and you are now a
member of ChemWeb.com, the World-Wide Club for the Chemical
Community.

Your free registration allows you access to all of the
facilities at http://chemweb.com.  You can now browse and
search journals in the library, databases, the conference
diary, the shopping mall, and the job exchange, as well as
keeping up to date with the latest news from The Alchemist
on-line magazine.

If you ever forget your password or username, just send an
e-mail to info@chemweb.com with your name/e-mail
address, and we will help you find it, without you having
to re-register.

We are constantly improving the ChemWeb club site, and we
welcome any suggestions you may have.  I hope you find
ChemWeb.com useful, and I look forward to seeing you there
soon.

Sincerely,

Bill Town,
Chief Operating Officer,
ChemWeb, Inc.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 14:06:28 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: I Got Mine
Message-ID: <199812030552.GAA30881@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On marte, 01.12.1998, "Blanc"  wrote: 

> I received my visit from the friendly IRS guys tonight, asking 
> about CJ/Toto.

Pre-schoolers'R'Us. You got a visit from the advance guys.

> It seems that they had a copy of two emails...one of them the one 
> in which I chastized him for sending a threatening letter to Billg. 

Admissions, admissions.

Would some duly licensed bar attorney on this list PUH-LEEZE tell
these children how to behave in the presence of criminal inquisitors?

> They wanted to know about my associations with Toto (I still think 
> of him by that name), of course, of which I had none except through 
> email. 

So _you_ say! They open doors; you walk through them; you can easily 
find yourself in Wonderland. Don't come crying to _me_!

> In our conversation, 

There is no such thing as a "conversation" with them; there is 
only an "interrogation." Everything you say is interpreted as an 
admission, a denial, or an evasion. You are a perp. You are dogshit. 

> I discovered things that I didn't know about Toto's situation:

You mean you heard more _allegations_? 

If you're not careful, your neighbours will be the next ones to be
"discovering things we didn't know" about _you_. That's the way they
turn people against targets, and anyone they interview can become
another target in the blink of an eye.

> that he had sent threatening letters to the Mounties, 

Alleged, and only to _you_ as far as you know...

> and that he had threated to kill the judge trying Jim's case.

Alleged, and only to _you_ as far as you know...

> I'm afraid CJ really went over the edge here and backed himself up 
> in a corner. 

GodDAMN! I'm glad you're not a friend of mine! I don't know if I even
want to _know_ whether you're wearing panties or not anymore.

> I should have chastized him more severely and counseled him against 
> rash acts of unkindness (not that I hold myself responsible for what
> he did, but he did pay attention to me).

Geez! I wonder what you must gush up about your _enemies_!

> Kind of amusingly, one of them asked if CJ had ever asked me to join 
> the Circle of Eunuchs!  heh.

Yeah, that's funny. It should also have set off all your alarm bells
that you're dealing with clueless fuckwits who can't find their fly
without a map and whose only interest in life is putting anybody
they can in prison, on any excuse whatsoever. If they can weave 
together a Circle of Eunuchs or a Cult of the Kernel or a conspiracy 
of Fanatic Followers of the Seashell, they'll be content to do it. 
You could tell them that the leader of the militant arm of the Circle 
is the infamous but cryptic "General Error" and they'd write it down 
with a straight face.

To you, it's a joke. To them, it's a statement with possible 
evidentiary value. And nothing's funny.

> I explained that it was Toto's Art imitating Life, creating stories 

You don't explain _anything_ to them. You can only give them leads 
and evidence. Of course, if you *insist* on having such a fucking 
good memory and on gushing on about all sorts of things, well, don't 
be surprised if they conclude that you _do_ know a lot about this Toto 
stuff, after all, and maybe merit another, more probing interview.

> We had a bit of discussion on a number of things, 

I'll _bet_ you did! Sounds like you made a nearly _perfect_ subject 
for interrogation.

> including the subject of free speech and how close one can get to it 
> before being subject to arrest. 

Ooooooo! That sounds _delicious_! You can entertain attorneys with 
that one. You will be thrilled at the wondrous range of awful 
expressions they make. Some may even quietly throw up in a corner.

> I asked them what that crucial point was when this would happen, 
> since there is no crime until action is actually taken.

Shows how much _you_ know. 

And now you get your legal advice from the IRS CID? That's really 
bright.

> They said this would be when...
> I referenced as an example the web site...

Nice of them. Did they indemnify should you rely on their advice and 
get busted or sued? Didn't think so.

> One of the investigators also brought up the issue of...
> I remarked that one must always be prepared for the unexpected...
> they made some points about taking threats seriously...

"Hyperseriously" is more like it.

You're a regular motormouth, aren't you? Now they have you knowing
a lot more about Toto-ish things than just the email showed, they have 
you red-flagged as "attempting to draw the agent into arguments about 
law or the Constitution," they have you flagged as being way too 
bright for an innocent person, and demonstrating an interest in 
discussing the technicalities of the law on threats to public 
officials, which interest, just coincidentally, happens to dovetail 
quite nicely with the essential subject matter of their investigation. 
I'd give pretty good odds you're going to get another visit. If you 
don't have a lawyer present on the next one, I'd say you're, uh, 
sorry, there's just no other word: _stupid_.

> I asked if cypherpunks would actually be subpoenaed to appear at 
> CJ's trial. They said it depends on CJ: if he accepts a deal, he 
> would likely get a reduced sentence, but if he takes them to trial 
> then there could be quite a number of Cpunks called forth.

Ooooooo! Lovely! FUD! Big time FUD! Divide and conquer FUD! CJ becomes
the bad guy for not cutting a deal and instead inconveniencing all 
those busy Cpunks, all of them probably suddenly writing code instead 
of flaming each other in endless and pointless threads of non-crypto!

> I suggested if that happens we could all go out to dinner
> : ) and they thought this would be quite interesting. 

Of _course_ it would! More "conversation," leads, admissions,
denials and evasions! More grist for the mill! More perps! Get them
to pick up the tab -- they'll be able to put it on their expense
reports! It's called an informal group interrogation.

Geez, how can bright people be so fucking STUPID?

> One of the investigators expressed a great interest in the cpunk 
> dicussions and concepts; 

Doh! It's his _job_ to be interested in a subject matter touching on 
an active investigation.

> I described...I'm sure given a little time and several dinners we 
> could convert him to the Dark Side. 

Geez! Don't you realize that they _are_ the Dark Side! Have you been 
living under a rock for the last few decades?

"You know, Gunther, those Gestapo men who visited last night to ask 
about the Goldblums next door were very polite. One of them expressed 
great interest in concepts and discussions of Judaism, and Jewish 
family trees. I described something of what the religion is about and 
referred him to some libraries and gave him some titles to read. I'm 
sure, given a little time and several dinners, we could convert him to 
our side."

Right. Maybe you understand now why I'm not on the Cpunks list?

RabidFreedomMonger




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 14:33:57 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: I Got Mine
Message-ID: <199812030612.HAA32547@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I have this really, really bad memory problem. It gets worse
under stress. I also have this metaphysical dilemma thing.
I know the guy next door. I guess. Actually I don't know him.
I've called him Joe, but it wouldn't be right for me to say
to anyone official that his name is Joe, because I've never
checked his ID, so I don't really know, and even if I had
checked his ID, I still wouldn't _know_, would I? He's always
been a nice fellow, and I wouldn't want to cause him undeserved
harm by leaping to conclusions about him. Does he have a wife?
I don't know. I may have seen a woman around his place, but
I couldn't leap to the conclusion that she is his wife. I
might assume so out of courtesy to them, but I wouldn't presume
to tell someone official that he is Joe or that he has a wife,
because I really don't know. Most of what I _think_ I know,
and which serves quite well for inviting each other to our
barbeques and for borrowing small tools, is stuff I don't
actually _know_ and don't care about one way or another.
And that affects my memory when people ask questions about
him. 

Did I see those two young men snatch a purse from that 
lady over there? Yes. Can I describe them? Yes. Did I notice 
what they were wearing and in which direction they ran? Yes.

Do I know anything about Joe? Nope. Does he have a wife? I
have no idea. What does he do for a living? Gosh, I have no
idea.

The law requires you to give up information you have when 
asked by a law enforcement officer investigating a crime.
The law does not and cannot require you to notice things or
to have a good memory. If your memory gets worse as the
things being investigated stray farther and farther from
common law crimes and into the realm of "bureaucrime" and
thought crime, well, that's just too fucking bad.

I'd make a really bad juror, too. It's not a memory thing there,
it's more of a comprehension thing. I just have trouble seeing
guilt if the law itself is bogus. Not guilty. What? Are you
crazy? They had him dead to rights laundering money! Sorry, I
just can't believe the evidence. It just doesn't add up for me.
Explain why not! Sorry, I can't. It just doesn't work for me.

If more people had these problems, all the bureaucrimes and other
victimless crimes would, sadly, be history overnight. The IRS 
would lose every single case that went to a jury, and within 
months the income tax would be repealed, a no-audit, no-go-to-
jail sales tax would be in place, and most of the people 
working for the IRS would be looking for a new job. I would be
very saddened by the rude reality of all that, but, hey, what
the hell?

Will these problems that afflict me spread? You'd better hope 
your sorry ass they do! If they don't, we're all in for a very
rough ride, and not 50 years from now, but tomorrow and next
year. We're already well down the slippery slope. Personally,
though, I think we're in for a shitstorm. That's because
people are basically unprepared for the degree of evil that
has been refined and distilled in government. They're still
way too willing to spout off about things they don't even 
know, to presume the worst, even of their friends and 
acquaintances, to play full rube right into the hands of
truly evil people who have _their_ act down to a science.

If large scale genocide has been going on all through the last
several years in Bosnia while people on this list have been 
consumed in flame wars and pseudo-propellor-head duels on a
scale of delicacy of the medieval mace, how much more easily
can and does largely bloodless subjugation take place all
around us? If people can allow Ruby Ridges and Wacos to take
place without congressional offices being _filled_ every day
with outraged citizenry and recall petitions being launched
for every politician who even hesitates in taking a firm stand,
how can we think that the gradual sapping of our liberty will
evoke a response until things first get very, very bad.

There is a peaceful solution available today. At one level you
don't have to have a good memory in all things to be a law-
abiding and responsible citizen-unit. Just say "No, I don't
remember" about things that are none of your business. At 
another level, you don't have to put up with bureaucrimes when 
you sit on a Grand Jury or a trial jury. Just say "No." Don't 
argue; don't convince; just say "No" across the board to 
bureaucrimes. It takes 51% of the voters to win an election. 
It only takes 5% of the jurors to kill a bad law.

Nothing else will work. Nothing else has ever worked. If this
is not done now, we will all face terrible choices and
tragedies within as few as ten years.

AmnesiaMonger




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 22:00:54 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Fwd: FC: Gun groups take aim at new FBI database (fwd)
Message-ID: <199812031346.HAA19880@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 11:01:25 +0100
> From: "Albert P. Franco, II" 
> Subject: Re: Fwd: FC: Gun groups take aim at new FBI database

> Some of the following statements do not (in my recollection) apply to those
> in California... 
> >
> >The following statements are true:
> >
> >It is legal to own a car without a driver's license or vehicle registration.
> 
> In CA only "junk" cars can be unregistered. An unregistered car on private
> property can be cited under a long list of circumstances. 

Only if they can see it. Otherwise they'd need to execute a warrant to even
find it.

Park it in a garage or a niche in the backyard, problem solved.

> >No permission is required to purchase a car and felons, the mentally ill,
> >children, aliens and those guilty of misdemeanor domestic violence offenses
> >can buy cars and most of the above can drive cars on public streets and
> roads.
> 
> I do believe that there are some legal restrictions for children purchasing
> cars...

There are legal restrictions on children buying anything. Technicaly the
sale isn't final without a guardians signature as co-signatory of the bill
of sale.

> >You are not required to report the purchase of a car to anyone.  
> 
> Since every car in CA MUST be registered, every change of ownership must be
> reported. If you do not you are subject to a fine. They give you ten days
> to report the transfer of ownership.

In most states the time limit and further instructions are on the vehicle
license. If you buy it via a loan then other terms may apply.

> >It is legal to drive a car on public streets and roads in the US with a
> >license from any jurisdiction on earth.
> 
> Only for a limited period of time in CA...

Unless it's an international license that is recognized by the US this isn't
true. Simply having a drivers license from England, for example, won't allow
you to drive a vehicle in any of the states anymore than your CA license
will let you drive legaly there.

> >It is legal to drive a car on public streets and roads in the US that is
> >registered in other states or nations.
> 
> Not if the owner is a resident of CA, and again only for a limited period
> of time.

Actualy as long as the owner isn't a resident (not the driver) and doesn't
stay in whatever state over some period set by the legislature then it is
permissible. In a lot of states it is between 30-90 days.

I'd bet the limit in CA is the residence time limit. I rather doubt that
anyone staying in CA 11 days automaticaly becomes a resident with a right
to vote in state elections and such.

> >It is legal to drive a car on public streets and roads in the US that is
> >owned by and registered to any person or legal entity.
> >
> >Legal entities can own and register cars and permit anyone they like to
> >drive them.
> >
> 
> But they assume all the liability and even possible criminal consequences
> for letting unlicensed persons drive the car.

It depends on the insurance limitations. My Bronco II is technicly
uninsured, and therefore illegal to drive, unless I am the driver.

In some cases even if the driver is licensed the owner still assumes
liability. At least here in Texas irrespective of who is driving the vehicle,
the owner is ultimately responsible for the vehicle. So if you loan it to
cousin Bippy and he has a wreck and runs away guess who gets to go to court
on leaving-the-scene charges. Now if you roll on Bippy the situation may
change.

> >Note that if we regulated guns like driving, the above would mean that you
> >could buy and use a gun on your own property without licensing,
> >registration or reporting.
> 
> NOT in CA...

Move to Texas. You can still drive your unregistred, uninspected vehicle on
your own property at your own speed and have wrecks at your convenience
(within the constraints of your deed restrictions of course). Way too many
bubba's still live in Texas for this sort of stuff to go over at all.



    ____________________________________________________________________
 
             Technology cannot make us other than what we are.

                                           James P. Hogan

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: info@chemweb.com
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 01:31:58 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: ChemWeb password
Message-ID: <199812031647.IAA10088@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Dear Dr cypherpunks cypherpunks

Someone has used our password utility located at

http://chemweb.com/user_gateway/html/forgot_password.html

to request that the password for your account be sent to this email address
(the one that we have on file for your account).  If it wasn't you, don't 
worry, because no one can ever get your password except you (we only 
mail it to the email address on file).  Someone probably entered the 
wrong address by accident.

If it was you, then here's the information that you've been waiting for.

Your Member Name is: cypherpunks
Your Current Password is: cpunks

For additional help with technical problems, please see our online 
help guide at

http://chemweb.com/help/html/index.html

ChemWeb administration




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous x@w.xyz
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 16:34:31 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: "Export" controls
Message-ID: <199812030820.JAA08564@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>You sure it's not Microshaft? More meanings.

Macroshit ? But I digress.

>A little experiment is often a good thing. I heard that the guys who
>made the DES cracker have had $$ requests for machines and/or chips.

Their architecture has real $$ value because it cracks 99% of "encrypted"
traffic.

>In case you missed it, my original reply was an attempt to open
>discussion on some type of cooperative effort.

Offering the real stuff for sale in US requires some investment. Whether it
is hardware (128-bit crypto engine on a PCI card ?) or software plug-in
for the aforementioned OS that makes all traffic go through IPsec with
128-bit non-DES block cipher, some amount of money must be put to a risk.

We are not talking here about free stuff. We are talking about products
that can be deployed by non-programmers, businesses etc., that will be
supported professionally (the perceived quality of professional support
vs. free stuff is immaterial here.)

>purposes. I wonder how many DES or IDEA engines could be put on a 500K
>gate array? It would fit about 35 instantiations of Twofish. That should
>be enough for a phone or a disk encryptor.

Hardware is overkill for the single voice line. PGPfone works fine there.

>Who want to get them done. <-- the key item

If there is a demand, it will be done. Let's run a small poll:

How much would you pay for transparent hardware/software solution that
encrypts all traffic between peer users (assuming all rational crypto
requirements are met, like available source code etc.) ?

>No sense pushing the button without critical mass.

The main problem with hard crypto is that it is so equalizing. Any pauper
can cheaply encrypt and make it hard for any government to break. This is
not the case with guns, where more resources almost linearly buy more power.

-

One of the posters mentioned that PGP is retailed in CompUSA. My mistake, I
did not check them (but I did check 3 other big chains).

-

On the wild side, suppose that all crypto restrictions are terminated. Some
would say that now "they" can break all available stuff. In any case the
value of crypto products in the eyes of buyers would fall. If it is legal
it is no good. Most of the research would lose the best people. Cypherpunks
would cease to exist. A very dangerous proposition.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 02:56:01 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: "Export" controls
Message-ID: <3666D33A.596E@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> Their architecture has real $$ value because it cracks 99% of
> "encrypted" traffic.
>
What type of attack was used in the famous test? Known plaintext? It
gets a bit tougher in the real world doesn't it?

> Offering the real stuff for sale in US requires some investment.
>
Really?

> We are not talking here about free stuff. We are talking about
> products that can be deployed by non-programmers, businesses etc.,
> that will be supported professionally 
>
Every product I ever worked on started off as a big ugly prototype
sprawled across a table top hooked to all sorts of life support systems.
And not all products are taken to market by those who did the initial
design work. License. For something like we're discussing here I think
the *big* cash outlay comes post-prototype with mask, fab, plastics,
production lines and marketing. Upfront it's mostly neurons.

I expect it would be easier to convince a manufacturer to participate
with a working prototype than it would with only an idea.

> Hardware is overkill for the single voice line. PGPfone works fine
> there.      ^^^^^^^^
>
No it is not. 500k gates may be too much but I maintain that you simply
cannot trust the Wintel HW, Windows or anything you cannot analyze in
detail and freeze. Besides, people like little palm-sized gadgets.

> How much would you pay for transparent hardware/software solution that
> encrypts all traffic between peer users
>
We all know the magic price points. But is that particular product all
that interesting? Even if peer traffic is encrypted the system can be
infected and can transmit anything ( disk, RAM eg ) to other adresses.
I'm afraid I don't know enough about the networking stuff to feel that a
system can be secured while it is on-line. 

Now an embedded system for secure e-mail that used a PC as a gateway
might be kind of cool. You drop encrypted attachments onto a driver that
sends them to the unit where you read them. Anything you enter and
encrypt at the unit is presented as a file at the host to be attached
and sent. USB would be plenty quick for that sort of stuff.

You might say that it should be done on the host as SW or on another PC
but we're back to the Wintel HW again. No thanks. I wonder what could be
done with a palm pilot. Are full schematics and BIOS and driver code
available? You *might* throw out everything but and build it there.
You'd want to do some EMI testing.

I still like my SCSI/IDE gizmo for off-line PC's.

> The main problem with hard crypto is that it is so equalizing. Any
> pauper can cheaply encrypt and make it hard for any government to
> break. 
>
Yes, and it needs to be priced accordingly. Although corporations do
tend to spend nicely at times.

The key, as with any business, identify your customers and make a
product for them. Not easy, I admit.

> This is not the case with guns, where more resources almost linearly
> buy more power.
>
Gun talk is amusing. I agree that what is going on with gun law is
disturbing but as far as disagreement with the Reptilians is concerned
power is political. As soon as it becomes violent you've lost. Except in
the event of a full-blown revolution. Then we all lose.

> On the wild side, suppose that all crypto restrictions are terminated.
> Some would say that now "they" can break all available stuff. In any
> case the value of crypto products in the eyes of buyers would fall. If
> it is legal it is no good. Most of the research would lose the best
> people. 
> 
Don't you think that this sort of a poker bluff would be a little too
much even for the boldest thinkers in gov't? The stuff they fear most
would be commoditized and I think, in spite of your point, far more of
it would exist than does now. Marketeers would reduce it to bullet items
on packages but many engineers would deliver reasonable products within
the cost constraints.

> Cypherpunks would cease to exist.
> 
Is that why CP exist? Because cryptography has some legal gray areas? I
don't think so.

Enough

This is a painfully slow conversation.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 01:13:05 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Welcome to ChemWeb.com
In-Reply-To: <199812031440.GAA07048@toad.com>
Message-ID: <199812031541.KAA021.77@whgiii>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



In <199812031440.GAA07048@toad.com>, on 12/03/98 
   at 06:40 AM, info@chemweb.com said:

>Dear Dr cypherpunks cypherpunks

>Congratulations.

>Your registration has been successful and you are now a
>member of ChemWeb.com, the World-Wide Club for the Chemical
>Community.

This should be fun! 

-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
---------------------------------------------------------------





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Albert P. Franco, II" 
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 20:37:56 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Fwd: FC: Gun groups take aim at new FBI database
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981203110125.0072b774@209.204.247.83>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




>From frissell@panix.com:

Some of the following statements do not (in my recollection) apply to those
in California... 
>
>The following statements are true:
>
>It is legal to own a car without a driver's license or vehicle registration.

In CA only "junk" cars can be unregistered. An unregistered car on private
property can be cited under a long list of circumstances. 

>
>It is legal to drive an unregistered car without a driver's license (in
>some circumstances).

It is never "legal" to drive an unregistered vehicle (or even tow it
without a trailer) on CA roads. The judge may let you off if you have "a
real good reason". But the cops can and in most cases will cite you!

>
>No permission is required to purchase a car and felons, the mentally ill,
>children, aliens and those guilty of misdemeanor domestic violence offenses
>can buy cars and most of the above can drive cars on public streets and
roads.

I do believe that there are some legal restrictions for children purchasing
cars...

>
>You are not required to report the purchase of a car to anyone.  

Since every car in CA MUST be registered, every change of ownership must be
reported. If you do not you are subject to a fine. They give you ten days
to report the transfer of ownership.

>
>It is legal to drive a car on public streets and roads in the US with a
>license from any jurisdiction on earth.

Only for a limited period of time in CA...

>
>It is legal to drive a car on public streets and roads in the US that is
>registered in other states or nations.

Not if the owner is a resident of CA, and again only for a limited period
of time.

>
>It is legal to drive a car on public streets and roads in the US that is
>owned by and registered to any person or legal entity.
>
>Legal entities can own and register cars and permit anyone they like to
>drive them.
>

But they assume all the liability and even possible criminal consequences
for letting unlicensed persons drive the car.

>Note that if we regulated guns like driving, the above would mean that you
>could buy and use a gun on your own property without licensing,
>registration or reporting.

NOT in CA...

>
>DCF
>




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Bernardo B. Terrado" 
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 12:45:58 +0800
To: coderpunks@toad.com
Subject: MERRY CHRISTMAS! guys!
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



sorry if you're angry with this

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"If a student is particular about his studies, especially while he is too
young to know which are useful and which are not, we shall say he is no
lover of learning or of wisdom; just as, if he were dainty about his food,
we should say he was not hungry or fond of eating, but had a poor 
appetite. " ---- PLATO

By the way, it's Bernie not Bernardo.
``````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Xena - Warrior Princess 
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 05:15:10 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199812032032.MAA10218@shell16.ba.best.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



U.S. claims success in curbing encryption trade

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Clinton administration officials
Thursday said they had persuaded other leading countries to
impose strict new export controls on computer
data-scrambling products under the guise of arms control.

At a meeting Thursday in Vienna, the 33 nations that have
signed the Wassenaar Arrangement limiting arms exports --
including Japan, Germany and Britain -- agreed to impose
controls on the most powerful data-scrambling technologies,
including for the first time mass-market software, U.S.
special envoy for cryptography David Aaron told Reuters.

The United States, which restricts exports of a wide range of
data-scrambling products and software -- also known as
encryption -- has long sought without success to persuade
other countries to impose similar restrictions.

``We think this is very important in terms of bringing a level
playing field for our exporters,'' Aaron said.

Leading U.S. high-technology companies, including Microsoft
Corp. and Intel Corp., have complained that the lack of
restrictions in other countries hampered their ability to
compete abroad. The industry has sought to have U.S.
restrictions relaxed or repealed, but has not asked for tighter
controls in other countries.

Privacy advocates have also staunchly opposed U.S. export
controls on encryption, arguing that data-scrambling
technologies provided a crucial means of protecting privacy in
the digital age.

``It's ironic, but the U.S. government is leading the charge
internationally to restrict personal privacy and individual
liberty around the world,'' said Alan Davidson, staff counsel at
the Center for Democracy and Technology, a Washington-based
advocacy group.

Special envoy Aaron said the Wassenaar countries agreed to
continue export controls on powerful encryption products in
general but decided to end an exemption for widely available
software containing such capabilities.

``They plugged a loophole,'' Aaron said.

The new policy also reduced reporting and paperwork
requirements and specifically excluded from export controls
products that used encryption to protect intellectual property
-- such as movies or recordings sent over the Internet -- from
illegal copying, Aaron said.

Encryption uses mathematical formulas to scramble
information and render it unreadable without a password or
software ``key.'' One important measure of the strength of the
encryption is the length of the software key, measured in bits,
the ones and zeros that make up the smallest unit of computer
data.

With the increasing speed and falling prices of computers,
data encrypted with a key 40 bits long that was considered
highly secure several years ago can now be cracked in a few
hours. Cutting-edge electronic commerce and communications
programs typically use 128-bit or longer keys.

Under Thursday's agreement, Wassenaar countries would
restrict exports of general encryption products using more
than 56-bit keys and mass-market products with keys more
than 64 bits long, Aaron said.

Each country must now draft its own rules to implement the
agreement.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 20:01:18 +0800
To: 
Subject: blanc's MIB
Message-ID: <199812031135.MAA20864@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




At 11:54 PM 12/1/98 -0800, Blanc wrote:
>I received my visit from the friendly IRS guys tonight, asking about CJ/Toto.

How did you authenticate them, or why was it unnecessary?


>Kind of amusingly, one of them asked if CJ had ever asked me to join the
Circle
>of Eunuchs!  heh.  

Should have said, "I 'know nothing' about such things"



 One of the investigators
>expressed a great interest in the cpunk dicussions and concepts;  I described
>something of what the list is about and the flow of subscribers through
it, and
>referred him to the archives, saying '94-'95 were some good years.  I'm sure
>given a little time and several dinners we could convert him to the Dark
Side.

Or he could have gotten more intelligence from you.








  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 21:10:50 +0800
To: pgut001@cs.auckland.ac.nz
Subject: Re: open-pgp / s/mime interoperability
In-Reply-To: <91222019014234@cs26.cs.auckland.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <199812031239.MAA01783@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Peter Gutmann writes:
> >open-pgp public keys aren't based on X.509 keys, so I would've thought
> >s/mime implementation would barf on them.  
> 
> Actually S/MIME *could* support the use of PGP keys, but there's a field
> (the SubjectKeyIdentifier) missing from the CMS SignerInfo which prevents
> this.  

Surely this in itself should be a compelling argument for inclusion of
the SubjectKeyIdentifier?  If it allows conversion of PGP keys into
S/MIME X.509 keys.

On the subject of whether one could get a PGP key to convert into an
X.509 key such that it would function in the X.509 / S/MIME world, I'm
not sure that much can be transferred into the S/MIME world.

I think the public key parameters (actual bigints will transfer.  I am
less confident about certification transferring (third party
signatures and self signatures on public keys).  The reason I am
unsure about this is that what is signed is not codified in ASN.1 in
such a way that it would be ignored as an extension, but still hashed
by an S/MIME implementation to obtain the same hash.  Or perhaps more
that it would cause an S/MIME implementation to complain of a
corrupted certificate, even though the contents could theoretically be
hashed to get the same hash for signature verification.

Or, more specifically, how could a PGP certificate (self signed, or
signed by someone in your web of trust) be transferred into X.509 such
that the message digest of the signed information would be the same.

Where a PGP certificate includes

0       1       CTB for secret-key-encrypted (signed) packet
1       2       16-bit (or maybe 8-bit) length of packet
3       1       Version byte, may affect rest of fields that follow.
                (=2) for PGP versions <= 2.5
                (=3) for PGP versions >= 2.6
4       1       Length of following material that is implicitly included 
                in MD calculation (=5).
5       1       Signature classification field (see below). 
                Implicitly append this to message for MD calculation.
6       4       32-bit timestamp of when signature was made.  
                Implicitly append this to message for MD calculation.
10      8       64-bit Key ID
18      1       Algorithm byte for public key scheme (RSA=0x01).  
                --Algorithm byte affects field definitions that follow.
19      1       Algorithm byte for message digest (MD5=0x01).
20      2       First 2 bytes of the Message Digest inside the 
                RSA-encrypted integer, to help us figure out if we 
                used the right RSA key to check the signature.

All of these fields are non meaningful for an ASN.1 parser.

Adam




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Albert P. Franco, II" 
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 22:22:16 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Fwd: FC: Emergency Powers and National Emergencies
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981203133147.0078ee7c@209.204.247.83>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Declan points out some scary stuff here but no president (even Clinton)
would be stupid enough to do something so outrageous. They would have to
know that it would spark a long running a especially bloody revolution. 

Why risk it when they can just keep approaching totalitarianism
incrementally with such activities as the FuckingDICks "Know Your Customer"
activities. It's much quieter and infinitely less likely to result in a
revolution.

APF

>>
>>"The President has the power to seize property, organize and control the
>>means of production, seize commodities, assign military forces abroad, call
>>reserve forces amounting to 2 1/2 million men to duty, institute martial
>>law, seize and control all menas of transportation, regulate all private
>>enterprise, restrict travel, and in a plethora of particular ways, control
>>the lives of all Americans...
>>
>>"Most [of these laws] remain a a potential source of virtually unlimited
>>power for a President should he choose to activate them. It is possible
>>that some future President could exercise this vast authority in an attempt
>>to place the United States under authoritarian rule.
>>
>>"While the danger of a dictatorship arising through legal means may seem
>>remote to us today, recent history records Hitler seizing control through
>>the use of the emergency powers provisions contained in the laws of the
>>Weimar Republic."
>>
>>   --Joint Statement, Sens. Frank Church (D-ID) and Charles McMathias (R-MD)
>>     September 30, 1973
>>
>>
>>I came across this and the Senate special committee's 1973 report on
>>Emergency Powers Statutes in Time Magazine's library. Powerful stuff.
>>
>>-Declan
>>
>>




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 04:11:08 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Suggested Reading
Message-ID: <199812031951.NAA21273@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Declarations of Independance: Cross-examining American ideology
Howard Zinn
ISBN 0-06-092108-0
$14.00 US


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
             Technology cannot make us other than what we are.

                                           James P. Hogan

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Albert P. Franco, II" 
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 22:26:35 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: I Got Mine
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981203140629.0078b9c0@209.204.247.83>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Now there's a really intelligent response to the MIB! I think Blanc would
have done a better self-service to have responded that way.

MAKE THEM GET A WARRANT! It's your ONLY legal defense against a fishing
expedition! It's our CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT to require a warrant before
letting them in! We are NOT criminals just because we do not allow the MIBs
to make ILLEGAL and UNCONSTITUTIONAL searches of our properties!

If they can't convince a judge AND obtain a specifically worded search
warrant then they are obviously fishing! Tell to go find a real deep lake...

I also give the writer an A+ for the Clintonian and Reagonesque touches!

APF 

>
>Hello, I'm Special Agent Murfrock of the IRS and this is Special 
>Agent Prenfrew. We'd like to speak with you about C. J. Parker, 
>maybe known to you as "Toto" or "TruthMonger..."
>
>Sorry, I don't recognize any of those. Isn't Toto the dog?
>
>The dog?
>
>Yes, Dorothy's dog in... (stops when he notices that the agents are
>scribbling furiously in their notebooks)
>
>May we come in?
>
>No, I was just about to go to sleep. I'm not well.
>
>Sorry to hear that. We have an e-mail here that you sent to Toto, 
>and another he sent back to you...
>
>May I see those? (takes the printouts)
>
>Sorry, doesn't ring a bell.
>
>Well, if you look at those headers, the ones circled in red, you
>will see that...
>
>You must be kidding! There are more people forging e-mail headers
>than live in St. Louis! Everybody knows that.
>
>Would you mind if we just come in for a moment?
>
>Yes, I would. I told you, I am going to sleep.
>
>Would you mind if we look at your computer?
>
>Why would you want to do that?
>
>Well if you didn't send or receive these messages, you have 
>nothing to worry about.
>
>I don't see any reason to do that.
>
>We can get a warrant, very quickly, as a matter of fact. If you
>cooperate, things will go better for you.
>
>I love to cooperate. I want to cooperate. I am cooperating to the
>fullest extent I believe is required of me. Ask me something that
>makes sense and I'll answer it.

We have learned sooo much from our wonderful President Clinton, haven't we?!

>
>Have you ever heard of a group called the Cypherpunks?
>
>It rings a bell.
>
>Are you a member?
>
>No.
>
>How do you explain the fact that we found your e-mail address on
>a Cypherpunks membership list in a computer we seized?
>
>I have no idea. I don't join organizations.
>
>Are you a member of the Majordomo organization?
>
>No. The only majordomo I've ever heard of is a mail list manager.
>
>Where have you seen this Majordomo?
>
>Oh, everywhere. I think it's worldwide in scope.
>
>(scribble scribble)
>
>It's some kind of utility program. Everybody uses it.
>
>(scribbling stops)
>What can you tell us about it?
>
>Nothing, really. If you want to get on a mail list you send a
>"subscribe" message to a majordomo. If you want to get off, I
>think you send an "unscrive" message.
>
>Have you ever done that?
>
>Maybe. I don't recall. Anyone can submit your e-mail address 
>to lists, so you don't even have to subscribe to be on an 
>e-mail list. And there's so much spam these days that I don't 
>recognize half the stuff I get. 
>
>Spam? (the agents look at each other)
>
>Junk e-mail. I delete most of my e-mail without even reading it.
>Sometimes my email program crashes and it all gets deleted before
>I can look at it.
>
>(scribble scribble)
>How many lists have you joined?
>
>I don't remember. I never paid any attention to those things,
>and since I banged my head three months ago, I haven't been
>remembering a lot of things.
>
>(scribble scribble)
>So, are you denying being a member of the Cypherpunks?
>
>I don't know what that means.
>
>Have you ever subscribed to the Cypherpunks e-mail list?
>
>I have no idea.
>
>You have no idea? You don't remember?
>
>I don't know what I've subscribed to, unsubscribed from,
>what I get, don't get. E-mail is a complete mess and I
>ignore most of it. I'm really not very good at those
>things.
>
>May we look?
>
>No.
>
>Are you going to make us get a warrant?
>
>Get what you like. My disk crashed last week and I threw it away.
>Lost everything. In fact I just formatted my new disk and the 
>only data on it is manuscripts for the columns I write.
>
>Columns?
>
>I write for a magazine and a couple of newspapers.
>
>(oh shit)
>(scribble scribble)
>Oh yeah? Which ones?
>
>I don't think that's appropriate.
>
>Well, we'll be back. Here's my card in case you think of anything
>you'd like to tell us.
>
>Sure.
>
>One more thing. Have you ever been invited to join something
>called The Circle of Eunuchs, e-u-n-u-c-h-s?
>
>I don't recall ever hearing of anything like that.
>
>Do you know who Tim May is?
>
>Nope. Sounds like a real common name, though.
>
>How about Blanc?
>
>Is that French?
>
>Never mind. Thanks. We'll be seeing you.
>
>(I don't _think_ so)
>
>-----
>
>AmnesiaMonger
>




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Albert P. Franco, II" 
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 22:46:35 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: RE: I Got Mine
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981203141821.00721d7c@209.204.247.83>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 09:22 PM 12/2/98 -0800, you wrote:
> From Greg Broiles:
>
>: Just as a reasonable person will likely listen cautiously to an accused
>: person proclaiming their innocence, a reasonable person should also listen
>: cautiously when the prosecution proclaims someone's guilt.
>..........................................
>
>
>Thanks for the advice, it hadn't occurred to me they might be spoofing. 
>
>(On a piece of paper they asked me to write down some of the statements I
made
>regarding my limited association with Toto (for the record, in lieu of a
court
>appearance), and asked that I also explain what I mean by "spoofing", as I
had
>thus described what Toto might have been up to with those incendiary
messages.)
>
>To their credit, I will say that they only told me more about Toto's
activities
>during the course of our discussions regarding the point in time when
someone is
>likely to be arrested based on their public expressions.   They related that
>Toto had sent numerous threatening messages to the Mounties, and that
although
>he had alarming info out on his website that was not a problem; that they
took
>action only after he actually planted a bomb in one of their buildings.  Then
>when I asked them as to why he was being tried in this area, rather than
Canada
>or Texas or Arizona, they brought up that Toto had threatened the judge
trying
>Jim's case (and also his other email regarding Billg).
>

You speak as if these are facts. When was the trial? When was it proven
that CJ=Toto (or at least a significant portion of Toto)? When was it
proven that CJ or Toto planted a bomb or threatened a judge? When is
something true just because some MIB says so?!?!?

You have jumped to so many conclusions that I'm astonished that you didn't
just jump in and offer to help string him up yourself! Maybe you did,
deliberately or unintentionally.

COPS LIE!!! FBI agents LIE!!! IRS agents LIE!!! That's why we have a
justice system that was intended to make them PROVE what they say. 

>At least they were not offensive, but polite and pleasant, but it's true one
>should keep one's mind on the facts - the pertinent facts, the pertinence
*of*
>the facts, and no other facts.   I myself, of course, would never lie.
Unless I
>had to. : )
>

"Here little girl, I have some candy for you..." But he was so NICE...

>"Well, it depends on what your definition of  'is'  is . . . "  What a great
>Leader, and a Lawyer, showing us how to deal with the Law.
>

Your BEST defense against them is always to make them demonstrate what they
believe to be true. DON'T tell them anything. If what they say was really
true (now this is important...) AND YOU are not a suspect then they don't
need to talk to you, they already have proof. I'll put that another way...
They talked to you because 1) they still don't have a case, and/or 2) YOU
are a suspect!

APF




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 07:15:31 +0800
To: 
Subject: RE: I Got Mine
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 9:22 PM -0800 12/2/98, Blanc wrote:

>(On a piece of paper they asked me to write down some of the statements I made
>regarding my limited association with Toto (for the record, in lieu of a court
>appearance), and asked that I also explain what I mean by "spoofing", as I had
>thus described what Toto might have been up to with those incendiary
>messages.)
....
>At least they were not offensive, but polite and pleasant, but it's true one

Think "Good cop, bad cop."

It seems to me that when you invite them in for cookies and tea and have a
"pleasant" conversation with them, you are only helping to put away Toto.
Whatever you tell them, they will almost certainly only use the negative
things you tell them. Or the general knowledge you give them, or contact
lists, etc.

I have not been contacted by either American or Canadian cops with regard
to either Jim Bell or Toto. I _hope_ I will have the presence of mind to
tell them to leave.

I certainly cannot foresee letting them inside my home, if only because I
expect they would get nervous about the Winchester Defender 12-gauge
sometimes left leaning against a wall, and the various assault rifles left
at the read in case a narc needs to be dispatched.

Also, my time is not free. If they want my expertise on some matter, let
them pay my consulting rate. As this is unlikely to happen, I would simply
(I hope) tell them to leave my property immediately.

(My planned answer, rehearsed in my mind over the several "scares" seen in
recent years, is to say something along the lines of: "Am I under arrest?
If so, I wish to speak to a lawyer. If not, please leave.")

If they want me to speak about assassination markets, the need for killing
millions of political criminals, and the use of anonymous systems for
smashing the state, why would I ever agree to speak with cops?

Blanc, I'm afraid that in your desire to be "helpful," you have only
worsened the situation for Toto. Believe me, they are not interested in
exculpatory evidence...whatever that might be in this context. They are
more likely interested in contact lists, in educating themselves to make
themselves more convincing witnesses, etc. Expect to see any knowledge you
conveighed to them coming back in Toto's trial from the mouths of
prosecution witnesses.

--Tim May

"I swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, just the way the President did."
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Steve Mynott 
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 23:57:44 +0800
To: cypherpunks 
Subject: Re: your mail
In-Reply-To: <199812031421.PAA00408@replay.com>
Message-ID: <19981203152033.A4180@tightrope.demon.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Thu, Dec 03, 1998 at 03:21:32PM +0100, Anonymous wrote:
> Is anyone aware of any critical evaluations 
> performed on the security of the Network Associates 
> (a.k.a. McAfee) PGP for Personal Privacy?  Traditionally, 
> PGP source code has always been available for 
> evaluation by the Net community, but this isn't the 
> case with the newer commercial versions.

are you sure?

according to

http://www.pgpi.com/ 

PGP 6.0.2i available soon

The PGP 6.0.2 source code books have arrived in Europe, and work is
going on to scan them in and create an international version: 6.0.2i.
However, there are 25 volumes and over 12,000 pages, so it will
probably take a while to finish.

-- 
1024/D9C69DF9 steve mynott steve@tightrope.demon.co.uk http://www.pineal.com/

in the top 40, half the songs are secret messages to the teen world to
drop out, turn on, and groove with the chemicals and light shows at
discotheques. -- art linkletter




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 22:54:54 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199812031421.PAA00408@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Is anyone aware of any critical evaluations 
performed on the security of the Network Associates 
(a.k.a. McAfee) PGP for Personal Privacy?  Traditionally, 
PGP source code has always been available for 
evaluation by the Net community, but this isn't the 
case with the newer commercial versions.

Additionally, and this is a bit paranoid, but PGP in 
the past has come with digitally signed files to 
authenticate the integrity of the files.  Once again, 
commercial versions offer no such guarantee that the 
software hasn't been tampered with between the factory 
and the store shelves.

Comments?
        




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bruce Schneier 
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 06:18:41 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Twofish/AES News
Message-ID: <199812032135.PAA14339@baal.visi.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



There are some new papers on the Twofish webpage.

We have improved our performance numbers.  On Pentium-class machines, key
setup is faster.  We also have large-RAM implementations, that speed key
setup at the expense of 256K of RAM.  We aso have a variety of performance
options on smart cards, trading RAM off for speed.  And finally, we have a
new hardware implementation that reduces the total gate count.  Details are
in Twofish Technical Report #3:

	http://www.counterpane.com/twofish-speed.html

Dave Barton has implemented Twofish in Delphi:

	http://www.hertreg.ac.uk/ss/d_crypto.html

And finally, we have compared the performance of all AES submissions on
32-bit processors, smart cards, and hardware.  Our results are in.

	http://www.counterpane.com/AES-performance.html

As always, thanks for your support.

Bruce 
**********************************************************************
Bruce Schneier, President, Counterpane Systems     Phone: 612-823-1098
101 E Minnehaha Parkway, Minneapolis, MN  55419      Fax: 612-823-1590
           Free crypto newsletter.  See:  http://www.counterpane.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: info@chemweb.com
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 10:10:23 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: ChemWeb password
Message-ID: <199812040123.RAA12872@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Your request for a ChemWeb password has been received.
We will try to help you out as soon as possible.

For additional help with technical problems, please see our online 
help guide at

http://chemweb.com/help/html/index.html

Thank you

ChemWeb administration




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 08:47:56 +0800
To: 
Subject: RE: I Got Mine
In-Reply-To: <000201be1e81$1d19d800$7d8195cf@blanc>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 5:42 PM -0500 12/3/98, Tim May wrote:
>
>If they want me to speak about assassination markets, the need for killing
>millions of political criminals, and the use of anonymous systems for
>smashing the state, why would I ever agree to speak with cops?

	I think millions is overstating things just a little bit, unless
you mean world wide.
--
"To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a
jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a
gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather naďve, and certainly
unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust"
http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html

Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro@playboy.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 11:18:32 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: RE: I Got Mine
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 3:13 PM -0800 12/3/98, Petro wrote:
>At 5:42 PM -0500 12/3/98, Tim May wrote:
>>
>>If they want me to speak about assassination markets, the need for killing
>>millions of political criminals, and the use of anonymous systems for
>>smashing the state, why would I ever agree to speak with cops?
>
>	I think millions is overstating things just a little bit, unless
>you mean world wide.

Those of who have voted to take away guns, those who have actually done the
taking away, those who have sent in JBTs to break into homes, those who
have ....

It adds up fast. Whatever the precise total is, removing them is what
crypto anarchy and untraceable transactions make possible. Read about this
is my Cyphernomicon, released long before Jim Bell had his "wonderful idea."

--Tim May

"I swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, just the way the President did."
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Blanc" 
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 13:07:47 +0800
To: 
Subject: RE: I Got Mine
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <000b01be1f40$5606b240$2f8195cf@blanc>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Well, I'm glad my post has stirred up everyone into providing examples of proper
cpunk behavior/responses when confronted with a visit from the Friendly
Neighborhood Investigation Corp.   It's great you're sharing your ideas on
recalcitrance and resistance, it's more useful than all the jibberjabber about
how much you hate the govmt.   (Yes, but how do you actually respond to a real
live representative standing at your door (they showed me their Batches), to a
real-live situtation when you are taken to a little room and asked to strip
("asked"?) at the airport?)   Ya'll should have done this earlier, when the news
of Toto first came out.  And think about it now, because if any mail from you
was on his computer, you're likely to be next.

But relax!  -  I said nothing which is not public knowledge, which is not
already evident from the list archives.  As far as I'm concerned, it was true
but essentially useless.   I confirmed things which they already knew or would
already know from the postings to the list -  they mentioned Tim's attitude, for
instance, and Declan's stories on Toto, and the info on John Young's website,
and Toto's website, and asked me if I knew of Adam Back (who?).   Furthermore,
just because I am nice and mannerly doesn't mean I couldn't as well be a
hypocrite.   James Bond is also a complete gentleman.  Depending on the
circumstance.
(Q:  so, are you a hacker?   A:     no.  I don't know Unix)


Tim said:

: Blanc, I'm afraid that in your desire to be "helpful," you have only
: worsened the situation for Toto. Believe me, they are not interested in
: exculpatory evidence...whatever that might be in this
: context. They are more likely interested in contact lists, in educating
: themselves to make themselves more convincing witnesses, etc. Expect to see
any
: knowledge you conveighed to them coming back in Toto's trial from the mouths
of
: prosecution witnesses.

I was not being "helpful".  I relied to their inquiries; I didn't offer
information.  I made my own inquiries to them, as I already said, about the
dividing line between free speech and when they will go seeking to arrest a
person.

In terms of educating them, I don't have any objections to probing their mind to
see what/how they think about things which we have discussed at length on the
list.   I also don't have any objections in referring them to read further:   I
told them that the cpunks often have deep discussions on this and other such
subjects, where we  pursue an understanding of controversial issues like free
speech and privacy.   I told them that there were many very smart people on the
list, especially back in the earlier years, although some of these had left to
pursue their other interests.  I told them it is an open forum where people come
and go - they stay awhile, sign off, return, there are kooks who show up and get
people riled up, there are those who bring up contradictions and get jumped on
for their philosophical errors.  I said that the spectrum of philosophies
regarding governments go from the extreme anarchists who want to be completely
self-governing, to those on the opposite end who would like to have a camera in
every room of their house watching them in case anything went wrong.  I said
that most people are in the middle, not wanting too much governance but not
totally against it.  I said that when the opposite groups clash, there is a lot
of heat and sometimes light.  (they didn't ask, and I didn't tell them, which
side of the spectrum I'm on)

If one of the investigators says he is interested in the concepts of which we
discuss, I am glad to bring up any points I can make for the side of
self-government, individuality, privacy, etc. (not that I would have a prolonged
argument, but only that I would inquire as to why they are so far out of touch).
If they have any intelligence at all, they will learn something;  if not, well,
let's compare that to the time wasted trying to enlighten one of our current
prolific posters, whose name I shall not mention because I'm sympathetic to his
condition, or all the time which has been spent going over the same arguments
with those who never got any benefit from it anyway.  If there's anyone I would
be glad to aim flashes of brilliant arguments toward, it would be an IRS agent.
At least they would know definitely, without my having to flash my gun or pour
chemicals on their office rug, where I would stand in a case of "emergency".   I
am not afraid of making my stand this way, to their face.

If it is anyone who could use some perspective on the controversies over
government and privacy, it would be them.   And above all else, beyond being
symbolically defiant, I would first aim for being Real.   It can be the hardest
thing to do, stand your ground and be calm and real.

   ..
Blanc
Think Thong




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Blanc" 
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 13:20:36 +0800
To: 
Subject: RE: I Got Mine
In-Reply-To: <199812040239.VAA12949@mail1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <000c01be1f42$e07f6320$2f8195cf@blanc>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>From Duncan Frissell:

: The opening of  "HOW TO BREAK THE LAW"
:
: By Duncan Frissell
:
: For a fair number of readers, the day may come when the men
: in the funny suits walk up to you, ask if you are you, and then exercise
: their power of arrest. For those without much experience in getting
: arrested, let me tell you what in general it will be like (details may vary).
.............................................


Been waiting for that book, Duncan.  Need any help?  : )

   ..
Blanc




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Duncan Frissell 
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 11:18:43 +0800
To: Tim May 
Subject: RE: I Got Mine
In-Reply-To: <000201be1e81$1d19d800$7d8195cf@blanc>
Message-ID: <199812040239.VAA12949@mail1.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 02:42 PM 12/3/98 -0800, Tim May wrote:

>It seems to me that when you invite them in for cookies and tea and have a
>"pleasant" conversation with them, you are only helping to put away Toto.
>Whatever you tell them, they will almost certainly only use the negative
>things you tell them. Or the general knowledge you give them, or contact
>lists, etc.
>
>I have not been contacted by either American or Canadian cops with regard
>to either Jim Bell or Toto. I _hope_ I will have the presence of mind to
>tell them to leave.

The opening of  "HOW TO BREAK THE LAW"

By Duncan Frissell 

For a fair number of readers, the day may come when the men in the funny
suits walk up to you, ask if you are you, and then exercise their power of
arrest. For those without much experience in getting arrested, let me tell
you what in general it will be like (details may vary). 

But first let's review arrest etiquette. Arrest etiquette can be
complicated for the arresting officers but it is easy for the arrestee.
There are only two rules: 1) Keep your mouth shut and 2) Cooperate
physically with the arrest. Following rule two will help preserve your
kidneys, limbs, and skull but following rule one is the most important. 

During the first two years after your arrest, there are only four words
that you should speak to minions of the State in an official capacity: 

"I want a lawyer" 

Say nothing else. You gain NO benefits by saying things to the cops and the
prosecutors for free. If your lawyer cuts a deal for you, you can talk in
exchange for something but once you speak you can't take the words back.
Lawyers are constantly amazed and entertained by the things their clients
tell the cops. Don't say anything. It's stupid. 


DCF




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 14:21:05 +0800
To: 
Subject: RE: I Got Mine
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 8:39 PM -0800 12/3/98, Blanc wrote:
>Well, I'm glad my post has stirred up everyone into providing examples of
>proper
>cpunk behavior/responses when confronted with a visit from the Friendly
>Neighborhood Investigation Corp.   It's great you're sharing your ideas on
>recalcitrance and resistance, it's more useful than all the jibberjabber about
>how much you hate the govmt.   (Yes, but how do you actually respond to a real
>live representative standing at your door (they showed me their Batches), to a
>real-live situtation when you are taken to a little room and asked to strip
>("asked"?) at the airport?)   Ya'll should have done this earlier, when
>the news
>of Toto first came out.  And think about it now, because if any mail from you
>was on his computer, you're likely to be next.

I was very careful to phrase my points in terms of how I _hope_ to respond
in a certain way, not claiming I have in the past or know I will in the
future. Maybe I'll wimp out, maybe I'll offer to tell them everything I
know about the Politician Removal Lottery, maybe I'll open up on them with
my shotgun. Who knows?

My point, parallel to Duncan's, is that talking to narcs and cops almost
always never helps the accused. If one's goal is to help the prosecution,
then by all means talk to the prosecution's investigators.

As for the general points, Duncan and several others have made these kinds
of common sense points in the past...even when you were subscribed to the
list. For example, some folks even carry a "What to do if questioned by the
police" card in their wallet, to either read from--assuming this is
allowed--or to reread occasionally as a reminder.

You, apparently having had personal contact with either one or both of the
parties, and living in the state where both cases are centered, might have
anticipated questioning by the cops.


>
>But relax!  -  I said nothing which is not public knowledge, which is not
>already evident from the list archives.

Don't understimate the help that a helpful person provides.

--Tim May




"I swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, just the way the President did."
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Blanc" 
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 15:40:47 +0800
To: 
Subject: RE: I Got Mine
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <000f01be1f56$548fa0a0$2f8195cf@blanc>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>From Tim May:

: I was very careful to phrase my points in terms of how I
: _hope_ to respond in a certain way, not claiming I have in the past or know I
: will in the future. Maybe I'll wimp out, maybe I'll offer to tell them
: everything I know about the Politician Removal Lottery, maybe I'll open up
: on them with my shotgun. Who knows?
.............................................


I expect how one responds will in part depend on how rational you think "they"
are, or suppose them to be.   I know that if I had been just subpoenaed with a
piece of paper I would have said 'no' or just not shown up, in spite of the
trouble that might get me into.   But I generally wouldn't prevent from talking
to Authorized Government Officials, although only a very little.   I think it's
best to try to understand the situation first, and see what the deal is, before
jumping to conclusions and alarming them into attack mode, like Hyper-Anon
mentioned (I hadn't envisioned such a scenario, thanks for the notice (how do
you know about this, or are you just imagining that that's what will happen?) ).

I did say that everyone should think about their own responses to trying
situations, because it is a valuable mental exercise.   Some people's bark *is*
louder than their bite, after all, and they do bark pretty loudly in email,
especially anonymously.


   ..
Blanc, who will no longer talk to strangers in the hall without first conferring
with Duncan McCloud of the Clan of Immortals




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 09:05:18 +0800
To: jyu-ohjelmointi-cypherpunks@uunet.uu.net
Subject: Make your own IQ test online!!! (Free+FUN)
Message-ID: <747adv$rk6$449@talia.mad.ibernet.es>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



you can do it now!

You´ll know your IQ in a few minutes

Go to

http.//www.hormiga.org/iqt.htm

FREE AND FUN

You´ll know your Intelligence Coeficent

Spanish version

http://www.hormiga.org/iq.htm




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ian Briggs 
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 17:07:49 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: I Got Mine
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <4.1.19981204004646.00c20670@deepwell.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>The MIB have a convenient way around this. If you let them in voluntarily,
>they're nice. If you make them get a warrant, they come back, guns drawn.
>They barge in and tear the place up for hours. Maybe they'll hack down some
>of the walls to search for drugs. In the end, you have something which is a
>cross between a pile of papers, a bunch of dust, electronic parts, wiring,
>torn up books, destroyed furniture, and a pile of crumbled drywall to call
>home.

Yeah and active evil is better than passive good.

We should submit ourselves to what is Not the law
because we fear what is the law?

Thats a great world, where do I sign up?

-Ian


Welcome to 1984
as with all goverment projects, its a bit late 
and slightly overbudget
	-Ian Briggs.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 09:05:58 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Mixmaster client 4 the Mac OS?
Message-ID: <199812040042.BAA01772@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I heard sometime last summer that the mixmaster client was being ported to the Mac. Does anyone know the status of this project?




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: pgut001@cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann)
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 22:01:30 +0800
To: aba@dcs.ex.ac.uk
Subject: Re: open-pgp / s/mime interoperability
Message-ID: <91269213708678@cs26.cs.auckland.ac.nz>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Adam Back  writes:
>Peter Gutmann writes:
>>>open-pgp public keys aren't based on X.509 keys, so I would've thought
>>>s/mime implementation would barf on them.  
>> 
>>Actually S/MIME *could* support the use of PGP keys, but there's a field
>>(the SubjectKeyIdentifier) missing from the CMS SignerInfo which prevents
>>this.  
 
>Surely this in itself should be a compelling argument for inclusion of the 
>SubjectKeyIdentifier?  
 
I'm trying to get this adopted for CMS, the underlying data format for 
S/MIME.  The silly thing about this is that alternative key identifiers (like 
PGP keys) were going to be included in RSADSI's PKCS7v2, but aren't included 
in the IETF version of the same thing.  The result is that you have a private 
company going out of its way to accomodate open standards, and the IETF going 
out of its way to lock them out.  Weird.
 
>If it allows conversion of PGP keys into S/MIME X.509 keys.
 
You don't need this conversion, with key identifiers you can use both SPKI and 
PGP keys directly within S/MIME.  There's no need to convert them into an 
X.509-like format first.
 
Peter.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: info@chemweb.com
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 21:16:09 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: ChemWeb password
Message-ID: <199812041248.EAA17113@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Dear Dr cypherpunks cypherpunks

Someone has used our password utility located at

http://chemweb.com/user_gateway/html/forgot_password.html

to request that the password for your account be sent to this email address
(the one that we have on file for your account).  If it wasn't you, don't 
worry, because no one can ever get your password except you (we only 
mail it to the email address on file).  Someone probably entered the 
wrong address by accident.

If it was you, then here's the information that you've been waiting for.

Your Member Name is: cypherpunks
Your Current Password is: crossfire

For additional help with technical problems, please see our online 
help guide at

http://chemweb.com/help/html/index.html

ChemWeb administration




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: HyperReal-Anon 
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 13:01:40 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: I Got Mine
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>Now there's a really intelligent response to the MIB! I think Blanc would
>have done a better self-service to have responded that way.
>
>MAKE THEM GET A WARRANT! It's your ONLY legal defense against a fishing
>expedition! It's our CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT to require a warrant before
>letting them in! We are NOT criminals just because we do not allow the MIBs
>to make ILLEGAL and UNCONSTITUTIONAL searches of our properties!
>
>If they can't convince a judge AND obtain a specifically worded search
>warrant then they are obviously fishing! Tell to go find a real deep lake...
>
>I also give the writer an A+ for the Clintonian and Reagonesque touches!
>
>APF

The MIB have a convenient way around this. If you let them in voluntarily,
they're nice. If you make them get a warrant, they come back, guns drawn.
They barge in and tear the place up for hours. Maybe they'll hack down some
of the walls to search for drugs. In the end, you have something which is a
cross between a pile of papers, a bunch of dust, electronic parts, wiring,
torn up books, destroyed furniture, and a pile of crumbled drywall to call
home.

Heil Klintonkov! Heil Reno! Heil Freeh!

StatistMonger




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: RealNetworks News 
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 00:35:11 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Surf the Web 20-Times Faster
Message-ID: <199812041601.IAA30445@fmailb1.real-net.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



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----------------------------
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 23:28:03 +0800
To: ian@deepwell.com (Ian Briggs)
Subject: Re: I Got Mine
In-Reply-To: <4.1.19981204004646.00c20670@deepwell.com>
Message-ID: <199812041501.JAA09183@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



> >The MIB have a convenient way around this. If you let them in voluntarily,
> >they're nice. If you make them get a warrant, they come back, guns drawn.
> >They barge in and tear the place up for hours. Maybe they'll hack down some
> >of the walls to search for drugs. In the end, you have something which is a
> >cross between a pile of papers, a bunch of dust, electronic parts, wiring,
> >torn up books, destroyed furniture, and a pile of crumbled drywall to call
> >home.

I actually seriously doubt this.

I think that they actually respect people who do not suck up to them,
and know the laws. They are people and, if they have a choice, would
rather harass someone who puts up with it, than someone who can get them
some serious trouble.

	- Igor.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 23:18:18 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: The Beeb speaks like a cypherpunk once removed...
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

There's some discussion on the BBC about that Chinese businessman who's now in
the klink for "conspiring against the state using the internet" :-).

The Beeb has an internet correspondent, and he's, right now, talking about
strong crypto, anonymous remailers, and quoting Gilmore's censorship is damage
line. All without using the words "strong cryptography", or "anonymous
remailers", or "John Gilmore". :-).

He was talking about how the Chinese website was hacked within hours and
painted over with pro democracy stuff and links to Amnesty International,
among other things.

All of this was in a favorable, horse is out of the barn, this is good for
freedom, light.

Cheers,
Robert Hettinga


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.5.5

iQEVAwUBNmfw9cUCGwxmWcHhAQEDEwf9H9xqZ2LU935VawA9ZwpzFPF2CKrl1xam
jzGJX2uTOhiYGtkQhZ2hFY7/ISoNGXvinwHACycXVi5AdxR6//2tzr1szjk4bgB5
NvKW+1gJJWP5bD0Kz3JwYui3t2fAetjSg94HCxcWbSQM4NJVP6IBXyg48ZtGmkVE
UqvhwYc41NHVDgZt/ist5EQEAWcWh3/qApEbeS8xG7SP4FZeCeogCidVmQuMWC1u
sAQbrd5fdFdTcUs0feuk9zBpEklTe3AljfnDbfSEUpyok29L+9R3cqAyh/5GM0yd
3uVQTmqOSMLK0o+L9tuejgkaTGnI7Co2NXaYbh/jPKGzm/OAYr7/fQ==
=FU5E
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 23:26:03 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: Wassenaar Statement
Message-ID: <199812041448.JAA23610@camel8.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



The Secretariat of The Wassenaar Arrangement has issued
brief public docs on the recent meeting:

   http://jya.com/wa-state98.htm

Only one brief mention of encryption:

     "8. The WA agreed control list amendments to take into account 
  recent technological developments. The amendments to the lists 
  included elimination of coverage of commonly available civil 
  telecommunications equipment as well as the modernisation of 
  encryption controls to keep pace with developing technology and 
  electronic commerce, while also being mindful of security interests. 
  Participating States also discussed the potential need for the WA 
  and national export control authorities to respond quickly and 
  effectively to the emergence of new technologies."

Which appears to confirm that each state will implement and
announce its encryption policy as it sees fit. The US has jumped
to proclaim to its constituencies that it has won.

Though it's the secret agreements that remain to be publicized.
Note the gaps in the public docs and dissimulative assurances.

We also offer a recent related message from Denmark on its 
fluid crypto policy:

   http://jya.com/dk-crypto98.htm






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Albert P. Franco, II" 
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 19:20:55 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: I Got Mine
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981204095905.00693d50@209.204.247.83>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>The MIB have a convenient way around this. If you let them in voluntarily,
>they're nice. If you make them get a warrant, they come back, guns drawn.
>They barge in and tear the place up for hours. Maybe they'll hack down some
>of the walls to search for drugs. In the end, you have something which is a
>cross between a pile of papers, a bunch of dust, electronic parts, wiring,
>torn up books, destroyed furniture, and a pile of crumbled drywall to call
>home.
>
>Heil Klintonkov! Heil Reno! Heil Freeh!
>
>StatistMonger
>

Unfortunately, this is true. That's why I loved the response given by Anon!
It accomplished all the right things without giving them cause for coming
back!!

VERY, VERY GOOD!

APF




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 02:37:40 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Vengeance Libertarianism
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 7:04 AM -0800 12/4/98, Petro wrote:

>	I just disagree with your "millions who need killing". Because some
>beleives in a polly-annaish world were taking guns away from the "good
>guys" also keeps them away from the "bad guys" is no reason to kill them.
>It's a reason to render them impotent until such time as they wake the hell
>up, and if they don't manage to wake the hell up until some mugger points a
>chinese manufactured .25 at them in the middle of the night and just
>fucking pulls the trigger because murder carries the same punishment (or
>less) than carrying a gun (enemy of the state) then "we" didn't kill them,
>they killed themselves.

You are free to adopt the beliefs of what I'll call "the forgiveness
libertarians." Summarized, roughly, as:

"You've been stealing from me, sending my sons to die in your foreign wars,
imprisoning my friends for what they smoke or eat...but let's let bygones
be bygones...stop your stealing ways and we'll forget about what you did in
the past."

This is a dominant thread of libertarianism, though it is seldom
articulated as I have just done. Look at the platform of the Libertarian
Party and you'll see this "forget the past, look to the future" approach.

I, on the other hand, have drifted into the camp I will dub "the vengeance
libertarians." Summarized, roughly, as:

"You've stolen my property, you've imprisoned my friends, you've passed
laws making us all criminals, you've started wars to enrich your
military-industrial complex friends, and you're corrupt bastards. You can
forget about some kind of "libertarian amnesty." It's going to be payback
time, with at least hundreds of thousands of statist judges, politicians,
cops, soldiers, and other such persons going to the gallows. Payback time.
Welfare recipients are going to have to pay back all that they have stolen,
with compounded interest. Out of their pockets, or while in labor camps.
Payback time."


--Tim May

"I swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, just the way the President did."
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 00:48:16 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: RE: I Got Mine
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 9:42 PM -0500 12/3/98, Tim May wrote:
>At 3:13 PM -0800 12/3/98, Petro wrote:
>>At 5:42 PM -0500 12/3/98, Tim May wrote:
>>>
>>>If they want me to speak about assassination markets, the need for killing
>>>millions of political criminals, and the use of anonymous systems for
>>>smashing the state, why would I ever agree to speak with cops?
>>
>>	I think millions is overstating things just a little bit, unless
>>you mean world wide.
>
>Those of who have voted to take away guns, those who have actually done the
>taking away, those who have sent in JBTs to break into homes, those who
>have ....
>
>It adds up fast. Whatever the precise total is, removing them is what
>crypto anarchy and untraceable transactions make possible. Read about this
>is my Cyphernomicon, released long before Jim Bell had his "wonderful idea."

	Yeah, yeah, I've read parts of it. I've been here a while under
different email addresses, so I'm more than a little familiar with the
whole crypto-anarchy thing.

	I just disagree with your "millions who need killing". Because some
beleives in a polly-annaish world were taking guns away from the "good
guys" also keeps them away from the "bad guys" is no reason to kill them.
It's a reason to render them impotent until such time as they wake the hell
up, and if they don't manage to wake the hell up until some mugger points a
chinese manufactured .25 at them in the middle of the night and just
fucking pulls the trigger because murder carries the same punishment (or
less) than carrying a gun (enemy of the state) then "we" didn't kill them,
they killed themselves.

	It's the leaders, the Guys In The Three Peice Suits that need the
killing. The KNOW better. They have the information, they have the studies.
They choose to manipulate people, to feed their fears and _tell_ them that
disarming them is making them safer.

	They lie, and in lieing reduce the saftey of ALL of us. For that
they deserve to hang.
--
Five seconds later, I'm getting the upside of 15Kv across the nipples.
(These ambulance guys sure know how to party).
The Ideal we strive for: http://www.iinet.net.au/~bofh/bofh/bofh11.html
No, I don't speak for playboy, They wouldn't like that. They really wouldn't.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Albert P. Franco, II" 
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 19:23:12 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: RE: I Got Mine
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981204110934.033b17a8@209.204.247.83>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 08:39 PM 12/3/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Well, I'm glad my post has stirred up everyone into providing examples of
proper
>cpunk behavior/responses when confronted with a visit from the Friendly
>Neighborhood Investigation Corp.   It's great you're sharing your ideas on
>recalcitrance and resistance, it's more useful than all the jibberjabber
about
>how much you hate the govmt.   (Yes, but how do you actually respond to a
real
>live representative standing at your door (they showed me their Batches),
to a
>real-live situtation when you are taken to a little room and asked to strip
>("asked"?) at the airport?)   Ya'll should have done this earlier, when
the news
>of Toto first came out.  And think about it now, because if any mail from you
>was on his computer, you're likely to be next.

I specifically remember a number of clueful letters on the topic which hit
this list as the whole CJ issue came up. As I recall, there were plenty of
warnings that cpunks could expect visits. In fact, you're "I got mine"
subject line seems to indicate that you were aware of this concept. 

Secondly, since e/mail is a digital phenomenon, it can not be physically
attached to a source. Since perfect copies of it can be freely made any
computer can be made to appear as the originating computer. It is the very
easiest type of "evididence" to plant. Imagine a virus or Trojan horse that
put incriminating stuff on a computer w/o the owner knowing about it. The
technology is readily available and no doubt in use. You think that a cop
who would use a "throw down" gun or plant physical evidence wouldn't also
be capable of planting digital evidence. 

I think it will be very interesting once the true nature of computer
contents are litigated in terms of its non-physical nature. Without a
digital signature that cannot be forged any file on any computer is really
just digital nothingness that could have been placed there by anyone. There
is absolutely no way to prove anybody wrote anything unless you have a
number of reliable eyewitnesses physically present at the event.

COPS LIE!! FEDS LIE!!  Those alleged threats by Toto may (probably)
actually be the result of some MIB that couldn't get anything else on him.
So he invented the letters and later planted them on CJs computer during
the undoubtedly unsupervised session in which they supposedly read these
things off his computer.

I personally have been roughed up (no bruises, unfortunately) by cops when
I refused to allow them to search my car. Fortunately all the uproar gather
such a crowd that they were unable to plant any false evidence and since
there was nothing there in the first place they had nothing to hold me on.
I wish they had bruised me, it would have made settlement talks faster and
more productive ;)

When asked at the Dusseldorf airport to turn-on my computer, I did ask why.
When told that they wanted to make sure it was real. I clicked it on, let
whir around for a couple of seconds and turned it off. No problem. Had they
asked to see they contents I would have refused. That would be like letting
them read my personal papers, which they have no right to do. If arrested I
will fight it. But I'm a real hard-head. That's why I left the US. Got
tired of always being hassled.

However, hard-headed I am, I do admire the wonderful suggestions (a la
Clinton) by anon!

>
>But relax!  -  I said nothing which is not public knowledge, which is not
>already evident from the list archives.  As far as I'm concerned, it was true
>but essentially useless.   I confirmed things which they already knew or
would
>already know from the postings to the list -  they mentioned Tim's
attitude, for
>instance, and Declan's stories on Toto, and the info on John Young's website,
>and Toto's website, and asked me if I knew of Adam Back (who?).   

The stuff on this list is only public knowledge from a legal stand point.
It is often technologically or ideologically so far over most peoples heads
(especially MIBs and AOLes) that it is unfair to characterize it that way.
Besides, the real point isn't that they know anything, it's that they have
either identified you as a possible stooge or a suspect. You helpfulness is
probably going to cost someone (maybe yourself) very dearly.

Innocent people get fried all the time because of bad IDs. "Well, I thought
it was him...It LOOKED like him..." If you aren't sure--keep it to
yourself. And if you weren't then when CJ allegedly wrote and sent those
letters then it is impossible for you to be sure. So, PLEASE do everyone a
favor and stop "helping".

>Furthermore,
>just because I am nice and mannerly doesn't mean I couldn't as well be a
>hypocrite.   James Bond is also a complete gentleman.  Depending on the
>circumstance.
>(Q:  so, are you a hacker?   A:     no.  I don't know Unix)

I have considered the possibility that you are in fact some sort of
government "agent" and your mission is to draw out similar (unfounded)
convictions of CJ from others on the list. If that is your purpose, may you
burn in Hell. 

The bottom line is if you are not working to help build the governments
case, then on your next visit with them please try a little honest doubt
and forgetfulness.

>
>
>Tim said:
>
>: Blanc, I'm afraid that in your desire to be "helpful," you have only
>: worsened the situation for Toto. Believe me, they are not interested in
>: exculpatory evidence...whatever that might be in this
>: context. They are more likely interested in contact lists, in educating
>: themselves to make themselves more convincing witnesses, etc. Expect to see
>any
>: knowledge you conveighed to them coming back in Toto's trial from the
mouths
>of
>: prosecution witnesses.

A Note to Tim, I don't think you are as sure of Toto's identity as you
sound. I'm not even sure you mean to sound as if you are sure of his
identity. It may just be from the urge to type less keystrokes. Whatever
the case, if your not sure CJ is the one and only Toto then please refer to
Toto for Toto stuff and CJ for the guy in Jail. It's more clear and since
CJ is innocent until proven guilty, we should give him the benefit of the
doubt.

>
>I was not being "helpful".  I relied to their inquiries; I didn't offer
>information.  I made my own inquiries to them, as I already said, about the
>dividing line between free speech and when they will go seeking to arrest a
>person.
>
>In terms of educating them, I don't have any objections to probing their
mind to
>see what/how they think about things which we have discussed at length on the
>list.   I also don't have any objections in referring them to read
further:   I
>told them that the cpunks often have deep discussions on this and other such
>subjects, where we  pursue an understanding of controversial issues like free
>speech and privacy.   I told them that there were many very smart people
on the
>list, especially back in the earlier years, although some of these had
left to
>pursue their other interests.  

And there were a lot of smart people on McCarthy's list... All turned in by
people who couldn't possibly know the truth about the person they accused.
Or perhaps did it save their own butt.

Hell, maybe this will the McCarthy case of the new century... It should
take about two years to blow up into a full on witch hunt and blacklisting
of cpunks and other "anti-social" types. With the Y2K problem sure to be
pissing lots of people off, the public will certainly be willing to support
ridding society of all those computer geeks that have caused all this
trouble...

>of heat and sometimes light.  (they didn't ask, and I didn't tell them, which
>side of the spectrum I'm on)

It doesn't matter. Their job is NOT to find the truth. Their job is to
build cases. These are not equivalent endeavors. Far too many times they
are not even compatible endeavors.

>   I am not afraid of making my stand this way, to their face.

Fine, but until they arrest you stay out of it. Use YOUR trial as your
soapbox and not CJs.

>
>If it is anyone who could use some perspective on the controversies over
>government and privacy, it would be them.   And above all else, beyond being
>symbolically defiant, I would first aim for being Real.   It can be the
hardest
>thing to do, stand your ground and be calm and real.

Then please, get real and get honest, stop talking about things you THINK
are true. Those are opinions NOT facts, and should not be confused. Put
those fuzzy warm feelings away and face the fact that these guys are not
your girl friends chatting and discussing things that tick them off. These
guys are out to build a case against someone so that they can destroy his
life. HE IS INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY. He has a right to a FAIR trial.
PLEASE, let's wait for the trial before convicting him!!!

APF




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 03:57:42 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: joy of export, h/ware
Message-ID: <3668373B.7F32@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>>What type of attack was used in the famous test? Known plaintext? It
>>gets a bit tougher in the real world doesn't it?
> 
> Not really.  
>
Even if you don't know what you're looking for? Help me out with that
one.

> * PGPfone on a  very fast cpu plus fast link is still less pleasant
> than a noisy cordless (no pun intended).
>
You trust PGPfone on commercial HW enough to do your spy work with it? A
system with dedicated audio compression ( http://www.dspg.com/ e.g. )
and a modem could probably be used to establish a secure, full-duplex
link over the POTS. A microP, possibly with a small gate array to accel
the crypto, would be able to handle the rest of job. Actually a pretty
simple product. It could even use your dial-up account and be your
internet phone. I know it has been done. I just won't be happy 'til it's
in 50 million homes.

> * We'd never take encryption hardware through the same path as modems,
> would we? First used between companies, then used for remote access,
> eventually you can't buy a bloody machine without one. Getting
> cheaper, faster, closer to the motherboard, taken for granted by 
> applications.  Ever seen a 300 baud, 40 lb modem, cost probably $3000
> in 1970 dollars?  
>
Yes, I have. Fortunately encryption HW will not have to go through that
sort of process. The frontier has been tamed, there are freeways
everywhere - all you have to do is pick a lot and build. IOW - that 300
baud modem if done from scratch now would cost nowhere near $3000/unit.

> The final level of deployment is when garage-door-openers, car
> remotes, and childrens' toys (e.g., radio controlled cars) use 
> encryption chips... or chips with encryption, anyway.
>
The time is ripe.

> The outside encrypting unit should also perform NAT, otherwise
> the PC (doing the tunnelling) can broadcast traffic ('trap and trace' 
> in the pots world) info.
>
Clueless again! What is 'NAT'?

> Email is so low-bandwidth that software suffices.
>
Absolutely. The issue there is more one of trustworthy HW and SW. Back
to WINTEL/MICROSNORT. Again, !barf!.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 01:58:45 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Send email list - go to jail for life in China [/.]
Message-ID: <199812041729.LAA24557@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> X-within-URL: http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/asia-pacific/newsid_224000/224907.stm

>    Cyber dissident awaits trial in China

>    By China Analyst James Miles 
>    
>    A man is awaiting trial in Shanghai prison charged with using the
>    Internet to try to subvert the government.
>    
>    Patrick Lin, 30, was arrested in March for sending 30,000 Chinese
>    e-mail addresses to an Internet magazine run by Chinese dissidents
>    abroad.

[text deleted]


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
             Technology cannot make us other than what we are.

                                           James P. Hogan

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 02:02:08 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Ethical programming guild? [/.]
Message-ID: <199812041731.LAA24617@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> X-within-URL: http://slashdot.org/features/98/12/04/1158251.shtml

>    The following was written by Slashdot Reader James Moyer .
>    
>    In proposing this idea, I think that it would a little bit of
>    background would be appropriate. I am a student at Ohio State, and I
>    have a strong interest in civil liberties and privacy issues. In fact,
>    I am now in the process of organizing an on-campus student
>    organization to criticize Ohio State's overuse of the social security
>    number, biometric identification and other related issues to privacy
>    directly concerning the university.
>    
>    Here on Slashdot I use the nickname JimBobJoe posting from email
>    address vampire@innocent.com.
>    
>    I also consider myself a Libertarian, and from many of the postings on
>    Slashdot, it appears that there are quite a lot of Libertarians out
>    there too. There is no coincidence, in my mind, that some of the most
>    stringent privacy laws in the nation hail from a highly technical,
>    Libertarian state, being Washington state. In the same vein, it is
>    rather amusing to see countries such as Malaysia attempt to draw
>    computer professions into their country, where the severity of their
>    laws turn many away.

[text deleted]


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
             Technology cannot make us other than what we are.

                                           James P. Hogan

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Gillogly 
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 04:23:49 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Streams, Voice, and Sensitive Dependence
Message-ID: <36683D66.CCBCB35F@acm.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



"Lee Davis" skribis:
> In any case, there has been a lot of recent work in dynamic systems (Chaos),
> especially in the fast computations of Julia Sets.  Has anyone seen a paper on
> exploiting the sensitive dependance in these systems for pseudorandom number
> generation?

A number of attempts have been made to apply chaos to cryptosystems.  The two
that I've broken suffered from the same fault: although it's difficult to find
the precise starting point (key) due to sensitive dependence, chaotic systems
are by definition non-random, and have preferred orbits.  If the cryptanalyst
finds an orbit that's close to the one used by the actual key, the stream is
mostly the same; this is good enough to hone the attack for the next pass.

I'm not saying chaos has no applications in cryptography; only that the
applications are not obvious.
-- 
	Jim Gillogly
	Trewesday, 14 Foreyule S.R. 1998, 19:37
	12.19.5.13.7, 6 Manik 20 Ceh, Sixth Lord of Night




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 03:15:09 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: y2k/gary north delusions
In-Reply-To: <199811290304.TAA06582@netcom13.netcom.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Looks like this one didn't make it out the first time around.
It's a little late. Sorry.

At 10:04 PM -0500 11/28/98, Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote:
>anyway I hate to say that I think he is really losing his
>mind lately.. no there are going to be some serious y2k problems,
>but imho the bottom approaches "garbage".. any talk of riots,
>mobs, martial law, stockpiling weaponry, roving bandits
>etc. seems to me to be really way off base to say the least.
>now people have been talking about this, but I've never seen
>gary north go quite that crazy.

	Not just crazy, flat out _wrong_ in at least one case:

>     Let's start with the basics: water.  An urban adult
>uses 75 to 100 gallons of water a day.  This doesn't count

	Like hell. Your average adult drinks at MOST 1 gallon a day,
including coffees sodas etc. It is _real_ difficult to drink over 1 gallon,
and you can seriously fuck your system up (mineral balances) if you drink
too much.

	I drink a LOT of (non-alcohol) fluid (as opposed to drinking
solids) a day, and I usually top out at 3 quarts, unless I am doing a long
distance ride.

	Let's round it up and call it one gallon for drinking.

	Showers: If you need more than 10-15 gallons, you are taking too long.

	Cooking: another gallon.

	Washing hands & dental hygene: 0ne more.

	Flushing toilets: 2-5 gallons per flush. Drinking one gallon of
water a day gets you flushing a _lot_, about 10 flushes a day (we are going
outer limits
on this one) that is 20 to 50 gallons a day.

	Washing dishes shouldn't take more than 3 for pots & pans, and one
for each persons utensils.

	Total: 40-75 (rounded up).

	That's for comfort. It also doesn't include watering the lawn or
washing the car.

>watering the lawn.  In 2000, how many people will be under
>your roof?  Remember, your children may show up on your
>doorstep, with wives and children.  Families will pull
>together for survival in 2000.  Estimate the number of
>people under your roof in 2000.  Now, how much water will
>you need per day?

	Ok, so let's cut that back to what we _need_. First off, we don't
dump our dish water down the drain, it gets "recycled" to flush the
toilets.

	So does the shower water.

	Then we only flush when we need to (i.e. not for every urination as
when drinking 3/4 a gallon a day (we are cutting back a little)  it's
mostly straight water anyway). So that eliminates almost all of the 20-50
gallons.

	Then we only shower when necessary, rather than every day, we
should be able to go 2-3 days between showers. No, it's not as pleasent,
but at least it's not unsanitary. So we'll say every other day droping our
daily consumption down to 5-7.5

	We won't touch cooking, and we'll increase the washing hands/other
hygene to 2 gallons to help make up for the lack of showers (actually,
doing this you could strecth to 3 days easily).

	So:
	drinking: 3/4 gallon (note that not all of this has to be "water",
fruit juice, sodas (at least until supplies run out) etc.)
	Showers: 5-7.5
	Cooking: 1 gallon
	Washing hands &etc. 2 gallons.
	Flushing Toilets: Allocate 10 just in case.
	Washing dishs: 4 (we aren't skimping here for hygene reasons).

	Total: 22-25.

	One half to one quarter Mr. Norths claims, and I'd bet my numbers
are still on the high side. This is also a fairly comfortable level
compared to pure survival.

>     What if the municipal water authority shuts down?
>It's goodbye showers.  Goodbye flushing toilets.  Hello sponge

	Only if you're a fucking idiot. You don't need potable water to
shower with, and you sure as hell don't need it to flush a toilet.

>     Let's assume that for the first three months in 2000,
>you will not get paid.  The banks will be down.  You will
>not be able to write a check or use a credit card.  What
>will you do?

	Live off those who planned ahead, stocked up spent thousands of
dollars on Food, Generators, guns & etc. but didn't spend 10 minutes making
sure their bodies were prepared & died of heart attacks trying to pull
start their generators to keep their computers running.

	(I'm mostly joking about the above)

>     What will your neighbors do?

	Run for the suburbs.

>     If it's a year, it could be a decade.

	If it's a decade, we're all fucked.

>     What will you do?  What is your exit strategy?

	Sit tight with several months of food (we have a largish lake
nearby, Lake Michigan, maybe you've heard of it) & asst. supplies and see
how things go. There are way too many variables to actually _plan_ an "exit
strategy", and no where to go.

>     Should you head for the hills?  Wrong question.  What
>solid evidence do you have that you shouldn't?

	Try this: NO WHERE TO GO. THERE ISN'T ENOUGH HILLS, AND EVERY ONE
IS HEADING THERE.

	YOU CAN'T RAISE (large amounts) OF FOOD IN THE HILLS W/OUT TRACTORS
AND SHIT, and you can't do it w/people shooting you to get your tractors,
food, and desiel.

>     Should you stay where you are?  What items will you

	Yes.

>need in your possession in 2000 and 2001 to make your

	Adequate food, warm clothing, & assorted stuff (including a couple
firearms for self protection.

>     Let me give a simple example.  How will you wash
>clothes for everyone?  Let's assume that you have water.
>(Dreamer!)  You can buy a 40-lb. tub of Wind Fresh laundry
>detergent from Sam's Club for $10.  It will do 160 loads.

	Ummm. Gary, how did people wash their clothes before they could buy
soap at the store?

	Why don't you print a recipe for Lye Soap?

	Because it's a lot easier being a blowhard.


>Their clothes will be dirty.  You will be clean.  You will
>not have lost 30 pounds.  You will be the target of envy on
>a scale you can barely imagine today.  You will be
>despised.  Will you be ready for this psychologically?

	Been despised all my life. I'm sure you know what that is like.

>local bank deal with y2k.  The question and answer session
>is especially useful.  It sells for $39.95:

	So over the next 12 months banks will fail, society will collapse,
and TWAWKIWE, and he is trying to get rich off it.

	Things that make you go Huh?
--
"To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a
jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a
gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather naďve, and certainly
unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust"
http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html

Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro@playboy.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Davina Heaven 
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 21:02:52 +0800
To: "'cypherpunks@toad.com>
Subject: ChemWeb.com
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Dear Dr Cypherpunks

Thank you for your message to ChemWeb.com.

Please enter your Member Name (user name) and Password exactly as shown
below (please note that our system is case sensitive and will not tolerate
spaces):

Member Name:	cypherpunks
Password:		crossfire

If you have any further queries or comments, please do not hesitate to
contact me again.

Yours sincerely,





Davina Heaven
Customer Services
ChemWeb Inc.
50 New Bond Street
London W1Y 6HA

Tel: +44 (0)171 499 4748
Fax: +44 (0)171 499 4102

http://ChemWeb.com
World Wide Club for the Chemical Community

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	cypherpunks@toad.com [SMTP:cypherpunks@toad.com]
> Sent:	None
> To:	info@chemweb.com
> Subject:	ChemWeb password
> 
> Request for password:
> 
> Full name: cypherpunks cypherpunks
> Current e-mail: cypherpunks@toad.com
> Other e-mails: 
> Member name: cypherpunks
> Comment: 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Gillogly 
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 05:01:45 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: joy of export, h/ware
Message-ID: <36684528.E3AB7D@acm.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>>> What type of attack was used in the famous test? Known plaintext? It
>>> gets a bit tougher in the real world doesn't it?
>>
>> Not really.  

Michael Motyka  skribis:
> Even if you don't know what you're looking for? Help me out with that
> one.

The question was "in the real world": in this case, as opposed to artificial
challenges, you often (or normally) do have access to known or chosen
plaintext.  This can involve expected headers ("\nSubject: " somewhere near
the beginning of a message has a good chance of giving you a 64-bit block),
standard plaintext (".  The " is a perennial favorite), or known C idioms
("#include \n") can all be tried.

The EFF hardware is set up to look for various kinds of patterns.  For
example, it can check the high bit on the recovered plaintext, to see
whether the result is ASCII.  This is certainly the easiest way to get
in if you're breaking normal uncompressed messages or source code.  If
it's compressed, you still may be OK -- most compression packages put
magic file identifiers at the beginning, and some have guessable trees
there.

If you're breaking a transaction stream it's likely to be even easier,
with the standard headers, even if you don't go to the trouble of
injecting your own know transaction into the stream.

-- 
	Jim Gillogly
	Trewesday, 14 Foreyule S.R. 1998, 20:22
	12.19.5.13.7, 6 Manik 20 Ceh, Sixth Lord of Night




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Lee Davis"
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 03:32:35 +0800
To: 
Subject: Streams, Voice, and Sensitive Dependence
Message-ID: <9812049127.AA912797826@smtplink.thomasmore.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



It is my understanding that the PGP algorithm is primarily intended as a block
cypher.  Therefore, wouldn't an Outer Block stream cypher be more effective for
phone conversations?  Both solutions require hardware for a practical (tolerably
noiseless) implementation, so there's nothing to be gained by streaming data
into a block format.

In any case, there has been a lot of recent work in dynamic systems (Chaos),
especially in the fast computations of Julia Sets.  Has anyone seen a paper on
exploiting the sensitive dependance in these systems for pseudorandom number
generation?




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 04:29:50 +0800
To: 
Subject: Re: Streams, Voice, and Sensitive Dependence
In-Reply-To: <9812049127.AA912797826@smtplink.thomasmore.edu>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 1:53 PM -0500 on 12/4/98, Lee Davis wrote:


> It is my understanding that the PGP algorithm is primarily intended as a
>block
> cypher.

PGP is not a cipher. PGP is an application with a bunch of ciphers in it,
most of the block ones.

PGPfone is not a cipher either, it's an applicatoin with a bunch of ciphers
in it, most of them stream ones...

Cheers,
Robert Hettinga
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 04:18:32 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: Wassenaar Addendum
Message-ID: <199812041953.OAA18883@camel8.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Caspar Bowden in the UK says by telephone that a Wassenaar 
spokesman told him today that the WA org will issue next week a 
detailed "template"  which specifies terms of the recent agreement 
to control encryption. 

It will go well beyond what has been heretofore generally agreed to 
by the member states under which there was a good bit of latitude 
for each to determine its own policy. This is an unprecedented united
front by the members, and the paper will be a first for detailed export
controls issued by the Wassenaar org rather than by each nation. 

When ready it will be put on the Wassenaar Web site: 

   http://www.wassenaar.org.

We've made a request to DoC for elaboration of the press release
yesterday which featured David Aarons' general claims, but no 
response yet. The USG may not comment until the WA paper is
issued.

Caspar posted a capsule of his infor on UK Crypto:

From: "Caspar Bowden" 
To: 
Subject: News from Wassenaar Secretariat
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 16:23:58 -0000
Message-ID: <000101be1fa2$9da127e0$dc77e4d4@cpsb>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal

Just talked to Dirk Weicke, Senior Adviser to Wassenaar Organisation.
(Tel:+43 1 516360)

No written details will be issued until next week, but gist is:

*) No alteration to question of whether Wassenaar covers intangible exports.
Up to signatory states to interpret and legislate.

*) mass-market software, symmetric key length limited to 56-bits

*) software generally available, but with other restrictive tests on
end-user re-configurability, symmetric key length limited to 64-bits

*) Assymetric key lengths (not sure how relates to above) limited to:

RSA & Digital logarithm: 512 bits
Elliptic curve : 112 bits


--
Caspar Bowden                    http://www.fipr.org
Director, Foundation for Information Policy Research
Tel: +44(0)171 354 2333      Fax: +44(0)171 827 6534

----------






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 05:31:23 +0800
To: petro@playboy.com (Petro)
Subject: Re: y2k/gary north delusions
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199812042048.OAA15267@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Petro wrote:
> Looks like this one didn't make it out the first time around.
> It's a little late. Sorry.
> 
> At 10:04 PM -0500 11/28/98, Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote:
> >anyway I hate to say that I think he is really losing his
> >mind lately.. no there are going to be some serious y2k problems,
> >but imho the bottom approaches "garbage".. any talk of riots,
> >mobs, martial law, stockpiling weaponry, roving bandits
> >etc. seems to me to be really way off base to say the least.
> >now people have been talking about this, but I've never seen
> >gary north go quite that crazy.
> 
> 	Not just crazy, flat out _wrong_ in at least one case:
> 
> >     Let's start with the basics: water.  An urban adult
> >uses 75 to 100 gallons of water a day.  This doesn't count
> 
> 	Like hell. Your average adult drinks at MOST 1 gallon a day,
> including coffees sodas etc. It is _real_ difficult to drink over 1 gallon,
> and you can seriously fuck your system up (mineral balances) if you drink
> too much.
> 
> 	I drink a LOT of (non-alcohol) fluid (as opposed to drinking
> solids) a day, and I usually top out at 3 quarts, unless I am doing a long
> distance ride.
> 
> 	Let's round it up and call it one gallon for drinking.
> 
> 	Showers: If you need more than 10-15 gallons, you are taking too long.

Come on people. We are talking SURVIVAL here. Can you ski your showers
if you do not have enough water?

The true answer is, if shit hits the fan and there is no water in the
faucet, almost all activity except drinking and washing hands and dishes
can be curtailed.

Even flushing toilets is not necessary as anyone can shit outside.

I am speaking out of personal experiences, living with water outages
while we were in the Russian countryside. It was no big deal, period.


> 	Cooking: another gallon.

It is included.

> 	Washing hands & dental hygene: 0ne more.
> 
> 	Flushing toilets: 2-5 gallons per flush. Drinking one gallon of
> water a day gets you flushing a _lot_, about 10 flushes a day (we are going
> outer limits
> on this one) that is 20 to 50 gallons a day.
> 
> 	Washing dishes shouldn't take more than 3 for pots & pans, and one
> for each persons utensils.

Much less. 

> 	Total: 40-75 (rounded up).

Total: 2-3.

> 	Ok, so let's cut that back to what we _need_. First off, we don't
> dump our dish water down the drain, it gets "recycled" to flush the
> toilets.

get them to shit outside.
 
> >     What if the municipal water authority shuts down?
> >It's goodbye showers.  Goodbye flushing toilets.  Hello sponge
> 
> 	Only if you're a fucking idiot. You don't need potable water to
> shower with, and you sure as hell don't need it to flush a toilet.

Correct.

Gary North is not stupid. he realizes all this, as it is not
rocket science.

Then why he keeps telling all this?

The answer is, to peddle his wares.

I am not suggesting that Y2K is going to be a cakewalk. Quite possibly
not. But Gary North is not worth listening to because he is biased and
has a conflict of interests.

> >     Let's assume that for the first three months in 2000,
> >you will not get paid.  The banks will be down.  You will
> >not be able to write a check or use a credit card.  What
> >will you do?
> 
> 	Live off those who planned ahead, stocked up spent thousands of
> dollars on Food, Generators, guns & etc. but didn't spend 10 minutes making
> sure their bodies were prepared & died of heart attacks trying to pull
> start their generators to keep their computers running.

> 	(I'm mostly joking about the above)

I think that you had a good point... A long time ago I posted a "Skills
vs. guns" article to misc.survivalism. its point was, that in the long
run having good skills and health was more important than stocking up.

> >     Let me give a simple example.  How will you wash
> >clothes for everyone?  Let's assume that you have water.
> >(Dreamer!)  You can buy a 40-lb. tub of Wind Fresh laundry
> >detergent from Sam's Club for $10.  It will do 160 loads.
> 
> 	Ummm. Gary, how did people wash their clothes before they could buy
> soap at the store?
> 
> 	Why don't you print a recipe for Lye Soap?


You can make semi-good "soap" from animal fat and ash.


> 	Because it's a lot easier being a blowhard.
> 
> 
> >Their clothes will be dirty.  You will be clean.  You will
> >not have lost 30 pounds.  You will be the target of envy on
> >a scale you can barely imagine today.  You will be
> >despised.  Will you be ready for this psychologically?
> 
> 	Been despised all my life. I'm sure you know what that is like.

No biggie.

Besides, if you don't want to be despised, just don't be clean.


	- Igor.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 07:38:51 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Streams, Voice, and Sensitive Dependence
Message-ID: <36686876.1AF5@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> It is my understanding that the PGP algorithm is primarily intended
> as a block cypher.  Therefore, wouldn't an Outer Block stream cypher
> be more effective for phone conversations?  Both solutions require 
> hardware for a practical (tolerably noiseless) implementation, so 
> there's nothing to be gained by streaming data into a block format.
>
Unless you have a really fast ( 1 Mbit / s? ) data connection you're
going to want to do some voice compression. The algorithms I've seen
break the audio into discrete time frames and (de)compress frame by
frame. As a point of reference say about 16 bytes for every 33 msec of
voice. Quality roughly follows data rate, of course. This makes a block
cipher seem not so unreasonable.

Block cipher or stream cipher, either way you're going to have to
introduce a latency of _at_least_ a couple of frames to allow for
resends or deliberate out-of-order frame transmission. This makes the
block cipher look like the better choice.

I think that using HW voice compression and a 33.6 modem you could get a
full duplex secure conversation over POTS with a latency in the 0.1 -
0.3 second range and a direct cost in the vicinity of $100. With a
reasonably quick microP any encryption method could probably be done as
SW.

This is not a particularly difficult device to build. Any fine US
citizens want to build some prototypes? 

Mike




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 04:38:54 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Mixmaster client 4 the Mac OS?
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Mime-Version: 1.0
X-Sender: loki@sirius.infonex.com
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 10:08:01 -0800
To: Robert Hettinga , mac-crypto@vmeng.com
From: Lance Cottrell 
Subject: Re: Mixmaster client 4 the Mac OS?
Sender: 
Precedence: Bulk

Several people have offered, but none have produced a fully functional version.

	-Lance

At 8:53 PM -0500 12/3/98, Robert Hettinga wrote:
>--- begin forwarded text
>
>
>Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 01:42:19 +0100
>From: Anonymous 
>Comments: This message did not originate from the Sender address above.
>	It was remailed automatically by anonymizing remailer software.
>	Please report problems or inappropriate use to the
>	remailer administrator at .
>Subject: Mixmaster client 4 the Mac OS?
>To: cypherpunks@toad.com
>Sender: owner-cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
>Precedence: first-class
>Reply-To: Anonymous 
>X-Loop: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
>
>I heard sometime last summer that the mixmaster client was being ported to
>the Mac. Does anyone know the status of this project?
>
>--- end forwarded text
>
>
>-----------------
>Robert A. Hettinga 
>Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
>44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
>"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
>[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
>experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

----------------------------------------------------------
Lance Cottrell   loki@infonex.com
PGP 2.6 key available by finger or server.
http://www.infonex.com/~loki/

"Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra.  Suddenly
it flips over, pinning you underneath.  At night the ice
weasels come."
                        --Nietzsche
----------------------------------------------------------

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 06:22:40 +0800
To: Tim May 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 1:00 PM -0500 12/4/98, Tim May wrote:
>At 7:04 AM -0800 12/4/98, Petro wrote:
>
>>	I just disagree with your "millions who need killing". Because some
>>beleives in a polly-annaish world were taking guns away from the "good
>>guys" also keeps them away from the "bad guys" is no reason to kill them.
>>It's a reason to render them impotent until such time as they wake the hell
>>up, and if they don't manage to wake the hell up until some mugger points a
>>chinese manufactured .25 at them in the middle of the night and just
>>fucking pulls the trigger because murder carries the same punishment (or
>>less) than carrying a gun (enemy of the state) then "we" didn't kill them,
>>they killed themselves.
>
>You are free to adopt the beliefs of what I'll call "the forgiveness
>libertarians." Summarized, roughly, as:
>"You've been stealing from me, sending my sons to die in your foreign wars,
>imprisoning my friends for what they smoke or eat...but let's let bygones
>be bygones...stop your stealing ways and we'll forget about what you did in
>the past."

	You are (it seems) slightly misinterpreting what I am trying to say.

	The average individual, Joe Six-pack, doesn't start wars. He
doesn't actually imprison anyone (unless he is a cop), and he doesn't
(usually) vote for the laws that actually imprison people.

	In most cases he doesn't even vote at all. He is pawn, at most a
peice to be sacrificed.

	It's the Kings and Queens that are the problem (and to carry the
analogy further, the hand[s] that move them) that really diserve our
anomosity.

	The politicians, and not even all of them, should be the targest of
"our" ire.
>This is a dominant thread of libertarianism, though it is seldom
>articulated as I have just done. Look at the platform of the Libertarian
>Party and you'll see this "forget the past, look to the future" approach.

	That is because the Libertarians are trying to join the football
game, and to even be in the game, you have to be pleasant.

>I, on the other hand, have drifted into the camp I will dub "the vengeance
>libertarians." Summarized, roughly, as:
>
>"You've stolen my property, you've imprisoned my friends, you've passed
>laws making us all criminals, you've started wars to enrich your
>military-industrial complex friends, and you're corrupt bastards. You can
>forget about some kind of "libertarian amnesty." It's going to be payback
>time, with at least hundreds of thousands of statist judges, politicians,
>cops, soldiers, and other such persons going to the gallows. Payback time.
>Welfare recipients are going to have to pay back all that they have stolen,
>with compounded interest. Out of their pockets, or while in labor camps.
>Payback time."

	Which would be more satisfying to you, to shoot these people
(personally I'm in favor of hangings, the ropes are not only a reusable
resource, but afterwords we put them in glass cases in museums around the
nation/world as permanent reminders of what _will_ happen when the people
get pissed enough), or to watch them starve to death as most of them have
no useful talents outside their ability to sway the population to their
will?
--
"To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a
jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a
gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather naďve, and certainly
unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust"
http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html

Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro@playboy.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mixmaster 
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 08:27:22 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: PGP Disk
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Has anyone had the chance to try out the new McAfee PGP disk?
It seems pretty straightforward, allowing for the creation of 
encrypted "drives" using the CAST algorithm.  Is anyone aware of 
any security flaws with it?




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 07:22:39 +0800
To: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov)
Subject: Re: y2k/gary north delusions
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 3:48 PM -0500 12/4/98, Igor Chudov @ home wrote:
>> 	Not just crazy, flat out _wrong_ in at least one case:
>> >     Let's start with the basics: water.  An urban adult
>> >uses 75 to 100 gallons of water a day.  This doesn't count
>> 	Like hell. Your average adult drinks at MOST 1 gallon a day,
>> including coffees sodas etc. It is _real_ difficult to drink over 1 gallon,
>> and you can seriously fuck your system up (mineral balances) if you drink
>> too much.
>> 	I drink a LOT of (non-alcohol) fluid (as opposed to drinking
>> solids) a day, and I usually top out at 3 quarts, unless I am doing a long
>> distance ride.
>> 	Let's round it up and call it one gallon for drinking.
>> 	Showers: If you need more than 10-15 gallons, you are taking too long.
>Come on people. We are talking SURVIVAL here. Can you ski your showers
>if you do not have enough water?

	In the first block he was talking about _normal_ _day_to_day_ water
usage. I was attacking that point.

>The true answer is, if shit hits the fan and there is no water in the
>faucet, almost all activity except drinking and washing hands and dishes
>can be curtailed.

	Not for long periods of time. General cleanlyness IS VERY important
in survival situations. Clean skin and clothes help prevent infections from
common wounds (like barking your shin against something, or a scratch from
a tree branch &etc.)

>Even flushing toilets is not necessary as anyone can shit outside.

	Not in a crowded enviroment, that being a mid-sized town to a large
city.

>I am speaking out of personal experiences, living with water outages
>while we were in the Russian countryside. It was no big deal, period.

	Countryside.

>> 	Cooking: another gallon.
>It is included.

	Included in what? The pasta? The rice? The beans?

	I am not talking about a camping trip here, I am talking about
living off stored food for one to three months (anything longer (IMO) takes
VERY VERY different preperations.

>Much less.
>> 	Total: 40-75 (rounded up).
>Total: 2-3.

	In a max survival do-or-die situation, yes. For long term health,
no. and besides, that was a number assuming "normal" usage.

>> 	Ok, so let's cut that back to what we _need_. First off, we don't
>> dump our dish water down the drain, it gets "recycled" to flush the
>> toilets.
>get them to shit outside.

	Why, so bacteria can fester, and things like dystensia (spelled
wrong, bacteria that causes "the shits" and other stomach problems) and
other diseases run rampant?

>I am not suggesting that Y2K is going to be a cakewalk. Quite possibly
>not. But Gary North is not worth listening to because he is biased and
>has a conflict of interests.

	I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that the biggest problem with
Y2K is not going to be technical, but the Cultists & Gun Nuts (as a
distinct group from survivalists who simply wish to get on with their
lives) realize that it isn't the Apocolypse, and then seek to make it so.

>> 	Live off those who planned ahead, stocked up spent thousands of
>> dollars on Food, Generators, guns & etc. but didn't spend 10 minutes making
>> sure their bodies were prepared & died of heart attacks trying to pull
>> start their generators to keep their computers running.
>> 	(I'm mostly joking about the above)
>I think that you had a good point... A long time ago I posted a "Skills

	Like I said, mostly.

>vs. guns" article to misc.survivalism. its point was, that in the long
>run having good skills and health was more important than stocking up.

	Bet they tried to run you out of there, they don't want to hear
that kinda stuff, they want to hear how to get the most out of their 4X4,
argue over whether the AK is better than the M-16 (hint, if you have to
shoot more than a clip, you're fucked) for a "survival" situation.

>> >     Let me give a simple example.  How will you wash
>> >clothes for everyone?  Let's assume that you have water.
>> >(Dreamer!)  You can buy a 40-lb. tub of Wind Fresh laundry
>> >detergent from Sam's Club for $10.  It will do 160 loads.
>>
>> 	Ummm. Gary, how did people wash their clothes before they could buy
>> soap at the store?
>>
>> 	Why don't you print a recipe for Lye Soap?
>You can make semi-good "soap" from animal fat and ash.

	That is what "lye" soap is (basically)

>> 	Been despised all my life. I'm sure you know what that is like.
>No biggie.
>Besides, if you don't want to be despised, just don't be clean.

	That is not an option.
--
"To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a
jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a
gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather naďve, and certainly
unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust"
http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html

Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro@playboy.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 06:11:28 +0800
To: 
Subject: Re: Streams, Voice, and Sensitive Dependence
In-Reply-To: <9812049127.AA912797826@smtplink.thomasmore.edu>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 2:38 PM -0500 on 12/4/98, Robert Hettinga wrote:

> PGP is not a cipher. PGP is an application with a bunch of ciphers in it,
> most of the block ones.
          ^them...

...and I'm not even sure about the 'most' part. Could be all of them.

Cheers,
Robert Hettinga

-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jan Dobrucki 
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 00:28:04 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: TESTING... Seems like I don't get all my mail...
Message-ID: <366803E8.DB80621B@qmail.pjwstk.waw.pl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



TEST TEST TEST TEST
JDO




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 00:39:11 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: joy of export, h/ware
Message-ID: <199812041610.RAA19470@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 10:06 AM 12/3/98 -0800, Michael Motyka wrote:
>> Their architecture has real $$ value because it cracks 99% of
>> "encrypted" traffic.
>>
>What type of attack was used in the famous test? Known plaintext? It
>gets a bit tougher in the real world doesn't it?

Not really.  

>> Offering the real stuff for sale in US requires some investment.
>>
>Really?

Interesting question.  Open a delaware corporation and sell 
munition-quality gate arrays in the back pages of Popular Electronics
or EE Times... keep us posted...


>I expect it would be easier to convince a manufacturer to participate
>with a working prototype than it would with only an idea.

Duh :-)

>> Hardware is overkill for the single voice line. PGPfone works fine
>> there.      ^^^^^^^^
>>
>No it is not. 500k gates may be too much but I maintain that you simply
>cannot trust the Wintel HW, Windows or anything you cannot analyze in
>detail and freeze. Besides, people like little palm-sized gadgets.

* 10,000 gates cost less than a paper clip.  500K is high for a block cipher.

* If we don't find something to do with them, at the rate we're producing
them,
the earth will be covered with silicon and its compounds soon.   :-)

* Its not like we'd ever put floating point routines, or blitting routines,
out of business by integrating those functions in Si, is it?
Naah, we'd never accelerate encryption with hardware, 
the CPU is bored and has nothing better to do, and its soooo expensive
to print chips..

(That being said, I'll point out to myself how many asics have been replaced
by dsps...but not without some inefficiency)

* PGPfone on a  very fast cpu plus fast link is still less pleasant than
a noisy cordless (no pun intended).

* We'd never take encryption hardware through the same path as modems,
would we?
First used between companies, then used for remote access, eventually you
can't buy a bloody machine without one.  Getting cheaper, faster, closer
to the motherboard, taken for granted by applications.  Ever seen a 300
baud, 40 lb modem, cost probably $3000 in 1970 dollars?  

The final level of deployment is when garage-door-openers, car remotes, and
childrens' toys (e.g., radio controlled cars) use encryption chips... or
chips with encryption, anyway.


>Now an embedded system for secure e-mail that used a PC as a gateway
>might be kind of cool. You drop encrypted attachments onto a driver that
>sends them to the unit where you read them. Anything you enter and
>encrypt at the unit is presented as a file at the host to be attached
>and sent. USB would be plenty quick for that sort of stuff.

Yes, the PC can be used as an untrusted router if the encryption is done
outside it.  The outside encrypting unit should also perform NAT, otherwise
the PC (doing the tunnelling) can broadcast traffic ('trap and trace' in
the pots world)
info.  The lower power used in PDAs really helps keep the boys in the White
Van
Across the Street busy.

Email is so low-bandwidth that software suffices.  Secure video
conferencing on your
Dick Tracy (tm) telewatch needs h/w support.




--- Is 5% of YOUR communications encrypted or anonymous in '98 ??  ---







  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 08:28:17 +0800
To: petro@playboy.com (Petro)
Subject: Re: y2k/gary north delusions
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199812042341.RAA18742@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Petro wrote:
> At 3:48 PM -0500 12/4/98, Igor Chudov @ home wrote:
> >> 	Not just crazy, flat out _wrong_ in at least one case:
> >> >     Let's start with the basics: water.  An urban adult
> >> >uses 75 to 100 gallons of water a day.  This doesn't count
> >> 	Like hell. Your average adult drinks at MOST 1 gallon a day,
> >> including coffees sodas etc. It is _real_ difficult to drink over 1 gallon,
> >> and you can seriously fuck your system up (mineral balances) if you drink
> >> too much.
> >> 	I drink a LOT of (non-alcohol) fluid (as opposed to drinking
> >> solids) a day, and I usually top out at 3 quarts, unless I am doing a long
> >> distance ride.
> >> 	Let's round it up and call it one gallon for drinking.
> >> 	Showers: If you need more than 10-15 gallons, you are taking too long.
> >Come on people. We are talking SURVIVAL here. Can you ski your showers
> >if you do not have enough water?
> 
> 	In the first block he was talking about _normal_ _day_to_day_ water
> usage. I was attacking that point.
> 
> >The true answer is, if shit hits the fan and there is no water in the
> >faucet, almost all activity except drinking and washing hands and dishes
> >can be curtailed.
> 
> 	Not for long periods of time. General cleanlyness IS VERY important
> in survival situations. Clean skin and clothes help prevent infections from
> common wounds (like barking your shin against something, or a scratch from
> a tree branch &etc.)

Well... The answer is that there is much less washing needed for
survival than it is needed for day to day civilized American life.

For instance, I change my shirts every day. If shit hits the fan,
you can wear a shirt for two weeks. Similar story is with other
clothes.

> >Even flushing toilets is not necessary as anyone can shit outside.
> 
> 	Not in a crowded enviroment, that being a mid-sized town to a large
> city.

Come one, you can set up big latrines outside houses.

> >I am speaking out of personal experiences, living with water outages
> >while we were in the Russian countryside. It was no big deal, period.
> 
> 	Countryside.
> 
> >> 	Cooking: another gallon.
> >It is included.
> 
> 	Included in what? The pasta? The rice? The beans?

Well, yeah, of course. With pasta, you can make soup and eat the
water, too.

> 	I am not talking about a camping trip here, I am talking about
> living off stored food for one to three months (anything longer (IMO) takes
> VERY VERY different preperations.

Well, yes, but still you need no more than 3 gallons of water,
which was my main contention.

> >Much less.
> >> 	Total: 40-75 (rounded up).
> >Total: 2-3.
> 
> 	In a max survival do-or-die situation, yes. For long term health,
> no. and besides, that was a number assuming "normal" usage.

It is entorely possible to live a decent life off of 3 gallons of
water per day. I am speaking out of my experience.
 
> >> 	Ok, so let's cut that back to what we _need_. First off, we don't
> >> dump our dish water down the drain, it gets "recycled" to flush the
> >> toilets.
> >get them to shit outside.
> 
> 	Why, so bacteria can fester, and things like dystensia (spelled

dysenteria

> wrong, bacteria that causes "the shits" and other stomach problems) and
> other diseases run rampant?

There is no problem with a properly set up outside toilet. 

There is a problem with eating unwashed food AND dirty hands.

To set up a toilet, dig a hole about 3-4 feet deep, fortify it
somewhat so that it would not cave in (for most soils fortification is
unnecessary). Then, build something above the hole so that people would
not be embarrassed to go there.

That's IT. Our country house in Russia used this system, it is reasonably
safe, etc. The whole neighborhood of houses used this system, as did
millions of other Russians. It _is_ safe. (Our apartment in Moscow had
a regular flush toilet bathroom).

> >I am not suggesting that Y2K is going to be a cakewalk. Quite possibly
> >not. But Gary North is not worth listening to because he is biased and
> >has a conflict of interests.
> 
> 	I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that the biggest problem with
> Y2K is not going to be technical, but the Cultists & Gun Nuts (as a
> distinct group from survivalists who simply wish to get on with their
> lives) realize that it isn't the Apocolypse, and then seek to make it so.

A point I also made recently.

> >> 	Live off those who planned ahead, stocked up spent thousands of
> >> dollars on Food, Generators, guns & etc. but didn't spend 10 minutes making
> >> sure their bodies were prepared & died of heart attacks trying to pull
> >> start their generators to keep their computers running.
> >> 	(I'm mostly joking about the above)
> >I think that you had a good point... A long time ago I posted a "Skills
> 
> 	Like I said, mostly.
> 
> >vs. guns" article to misc.survivalism. its point was, that in the long
> >run having good skills and health was more important than stocking up.
> 
> 	Bet they tried to run you out of there, they don't want to hear
> that kinda stuff, they want to hear how to get the most out of their 4X4,
> argue over whether the AK is better than the M-16 (hint, if you have to
> shoot more than a clip, you're fucked) for a "survival" situation.

No, they were pretty nice. Not all of them agreed, but they had a
sensible discussion.

> >> >     Let me give a simple example.  How will you wash
> >> >clothes for everyone?  Let's assume that you have water.
> >> >(Dreamer!)  You can buy a 40-lb. tub of Wind Fresh laundry
> >> >detergent from Sam's Club for $10.  It will do 160 loads.
> >>
> >> 	Ummm. Gary, how did people wash their clothes before they could buy
> >> soap at the store?
> >>
> >> 	Why don't you print a recipe for Lye Soap?
> >You can make semi-good "soap" from animal fat and ash.
> 
> 	That is what "lye" soap is (basically)

Ahh, thanks.

	- Igor.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 01:13:05 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Wassenaar Statement
Message-ID: <199812041645.RAA23979@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



If these reports are correct, the United States could end up being one of
the countries with the most LIBERAL export controls.

In the United States, it is currently legal to export any cryptographic
software you like - as long as it is in printed form.  This is because
of fears of violating the First Amendment.  Not all countries have such
strong conventions for protecting the printed word.

PGP source code is being exported in printed form, scanned in overseas,
and then distributed from there.  If the Wassenaar Arrangement prevents
it from being exported from its current overseas distribution site,
a solution can be to ship it in printed form from the U.S. to a wide
range of other countries.  As long as those countries don't prohibit
domestic distribution of crypto software, strong cryptography can still
be made available almost everywhere.

The PGP source code books begin with a section that is, in effect, a
"how-to" for printing software in such a way that it can be reliably
scanned.  Each page and each line has a checksum.  The books come with
a Perl script short enough to enter by hand that does basic checksum
verification.  This is used to read a second, longer Perl script that
can do error correction; and this is then used to bootstrap into the
full script which will read the books, create all the files, organize
the directories, and reconstruct the entire source code tree.

It may be that in the future this will be the most effective way to
communicate internationally about security software.  It would be
good for other groups to become familiar with this technology which has
been pioneered by PGP.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 08:08:57 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: RE: Wassenaar Statement
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


From: "Phillip Hallam-Baker" 
To: "Robert Hettinga" , 
Subject: RE: Wassenaar Statement
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 18:02:40 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4
Importance: Normal

We have seen this type of press release before. Uncle Sam goes
off to a conference and returns to state that the rest of the
world has committed to its position - only to find out later that
the rest of the world did not. Anyone remembe the time the
crypto Tzar went off to the European Association (a non binding
talking shop) and got a similar 'undertaking'.

It is more likely that the Wassenaar statement reflects what went
on at the meeting. But even then most countries in Europe have a
democratic process in which decisions are made by elected
representatives and not by beaureacrats at closed treaty
negotiations.

Just as the munitions acts under which the ITAR crypto regulations
are purported to be made clearly do not provide the executive with
the powers claimed, neither do most of the European enabling
acts for COCOM.

Nor in a parliamentary system is it quite so easy for the executive
to perform Zimmerman type persecutions. If the same tactics had
been used in the UK the Home secretary would have faced political
consequences for the failure of the prosecution. The Matrix Churchill
affair played a significant part in the collapse of the Major
government in the UK. I doubt Straw would be keen on a repeat.


The UK DTI proposals requiring GAK as a condition of CA licensing
may appear to meet the Freeh objectives but since there is no
proposal to make licensing a requirement of doing business the result
is most likely to be nobody becomes a 'licensed CA'. There is a
legitimate business need for key recovery but nobody offering those
services is going to want access to the customer's private keys.
Doing so would be akin to keeping triffids as pets. It is not
necessary to keep actual private keys to achieve the objective of
controlling access to the private keys.


		Phill

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 08:14:11 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: FC: So far, I think Mr. Aarons' Wassenaar statement is  disinformation
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 18:19:58 -0500 (EST)
From: Peter F Cassidy 
To: Robert Hettinga 
Cc: dcsb@ai.mit.edu
Subject: Re: FC: So far, I think Mr. Aarons' Wassenaar statement is
disinformation
Mime-Version: 1.0
Sender: bounce-dcsb@ai.mit.edu
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: Peter F Cassidy 



Friends,

In e-mail exchanges with EC ministers and government ministers in W.
European nations that I have had about Aarons one thing is consistent. All
seemed to be shocked and dismayed at his ability to report out facts to
the press in the US and to the Clinton Administration that have little to
do with actual events. It would not surprise any of them if Aarons'
unilaterally declared a 33 nation crypto-control agreement that was based
entirely on his baroque misunderstanding of the facts.

PFC


On Fri, 4 Dec 1998, Robert Hettinga wrote:

>
> --- begin forwarded text
>
>
> X-Sender: declan@mail.well.com
> Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 15:29:29 -0500
> To: politech@vorlon.mit.edu
> From: Declan McCullagh 
> Subject: FC: So far, I think Mr. Aarons' Wassenaar statement is
>   disinformation
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Sender: owner-politech@vorlon.mit.edu
> Reply-To: declan@well.com
> X-Loop: politech@vorlon.mit.edu
> X-URL: Politech is at http://www.well.com/~declan/politech/
>
> [John is basing his analysis below on what's been posted on the Wassenaar
> site so far, and these kinds of documents aren't always put online
> immediately. That said, if Ambassador Aaron is talking about the online
> documents and John's analysis is correct, the Clinton administration is
> going beyond mere spin: it is trying to deliberately deceive. --Declan]
>
> *********
>
> Subject: So far, I think Mr. Aarons' Wassenaar statement is disinformation
>
> Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 10:55:00 -0800
> From: John Gilmore 
>
> I have not found a single confirmation of the Aarons statement that
> the 33 Wassenaar countries have agreed to change the exemption for
> mass market crypto software.  (The NY Times and Reuters stories both
> quote Ambassador Aarons.)
>
> This lack of confirmation includes the Wassenaar Arrangement statement
> itself, which merely says:
>
> 	The amendments to the lists included elimination of coverage of
> 	commonly available civil telecommunications equipment as well
> 	as the modernisation of encryption controls to keep pace with
> 	developing technology and electronic commerce, while also being
> 	mindful of security interests.
>
> 	http://www.wassenaar.org/docs/press_4.html
>
> The Wassenaar Arrangement works by consensus; any member can block the
> adoption of any item merely by voting against it.  The policy Aarons
> announced is directly contradictory to the recently reaffirmed
> government policies of Finland and Ireland.  In addition, Canada and
> Germany have recently stated strong pro-crypto positions (while
> waffling on the particular issue of the treatment of PD and MM
> software).
>
> The Wassenaar Arrangement also states:
>
> 	This arrangement will not be directed against
> 	any state or group of states and will not impede
> 	bona fide civil transactions.
>
> To the extent that there is any attempt in the Agreement to control
> mass market or public domain crypto software, such a provision
> would clearly contradict this limitation written into the Arrangement.
> The Arrangement is for military goods -- not for civilian goods.
> PGP and other civilian crypto tools are not military by any stretch
> of the imagination.  It's hard to imagine that all 33 countries would
> ignore this obvious problem, especially when it was pointed out to them
> by concerted lobbying over the last several months.
>
> I also note that none of the statements are clear about exactly what
> is affected.  PGP, SSH, SSLEAY, Linux IPSEC, and many other crypto
> tools are "public domain" rather than "mass market" software.  The
> General Software Note (originally from COCOM, and adopted bodily by
> Wassenaar when it was formed) exempted both "public domain" and "mass
> market" software from all controls.
>
> Finally, a companion paper released from Wassenaar yesterday shows a
> clear concern by the body for human rights and fundamental freedoms:
> http://www.wassenaar.org/docs/criteria.html:
>
> 	e.  Is there a clearly identifiable risk that the weapons might
> 	be used for the violation and suppression of human rights and
> 	fundamental freedoms?
>
> (In this case if the the Aarons statement was true, Wassenaar itself
> would be used for the violation and suppression of human rights and
> fundamental freedoms.  It's hard to see that the delegates would also
> ignore this and vote to suppress human rights and freedoms.)
>
> So, I see two major probabilities here:
>
> 	*  Either Aarons is lying, to see how much trouble this stirs up.
> 	This would be taking a page from FBI Director Freeh, who
> 	announced FBI support for domestic controls on crypto last year,
> 	and was then disavowed by the Administration when a ruckus
> 	resulted.
>
> 	*  Or the NSA has cut a deal with these countries.  Then the
> 	question is:  what did NSA offer in return?  The usual trade
> 	has been access to the flow of wiretaps (as in the UKUSA
> 	agreement that gives Britain, NZ, Australia, and Canada access
> 	to Echelon -- look who the strongest supporters of the US position
> 	are).  Another alternative is that they used wiretaps to
> 	blackmail senior politicians in the recalcitrant countries.
> 	(It happened in the US by J. Edgar Hoover for many years.)
>
> Do either of you have any info that would tend to confirm or deny
> one of these theories?
>
> EFF and the GILC members are checking with various governments to
> start to flesh out what *actually* happened.
>
> I should also note that developments like this are rather expectable.
> Every time crypto policies get decided in a closed-door meeting where
> the US government is invited, they get worse.  Whenever crypto
> policies are set in open meetings where the public and the press are
> able to watch -- or even, god forbid, participate -- they get better.
> The OECD meetings of a few years ago were intended to be the first,
> but citizens and journalists swarmed the meeting site, buttonholed
> delegates as they entered and left, and turned it into the second.  We
> should've done the same with this Wassenaar meeting.
>
> US civil libertarians are prying crypto policy decisions into the
> light of day via the courts and the Freedom of Information Act.
> Classified NSA/FBI testimony to Congress is getting declassified, and
> then its obvious lies are easily rebutted by the public.
>
> The natural response of a bureacracy that is more concerned with its
> own power to wiretap, than with making the right decisions for its
> citizens, is to move its crypto maneuvering overseas into "diplomatic
> meetings", held under cover of diplomatic secrecy, where they can lie
> and twist arms with impunity.
>
> 	John
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> POLITECH -- the moderated mailing list of politics and technology
> To subscribe: send a message to majordomo@vorlon.mit.edu with this text:
> subscribe politech
> More information is at http://www.well.com/~declan/politech/
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> --- end forwarded text
>
>
> -----------------
> Robert A. Hettinga 
> Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
> 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
> "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
> [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
> experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
>
> For help on using this list (especially unsubscribing), send a message to
> "dcsb-request@ai.mit.edu" with one line of text: "help".
>


For help on using this list (especially unsubscribing), send a message to
"dcsb-request@ai.mit.edu" with one line of text: "help".

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Gilmore 
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 11:09:07 +0800
To: cryptography@c2.net
Subject: What was the quid pro quo for Wassenaar countries?
Message-ID: <199812050240.SAA24692@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I spoke some hours ago with Tatu Ylonen in Finland.  His company has
confirmation from the Finnish government that the government agreed to
a proposal to limit mass-market crypto exports to 56 bits.  Perhaps
he or someone else from SSH can post more details.

So *something* really did happen at the Wassenaar meeting, but we
don't know two important things:

	*  What exactly did they agree to?  In particular, is public
	   domain -- as opposed to mass market -- crypto controlled?

	*  And what did NSA offer, to convince many countries to
	   directly contradict policies that they had arrived at
	   during year-long public consultations with their own citizens?
	   A carrot?  A stick?  Blackmail from wiretaps?  Access
	   to NSA's wiretap network in return for cooperation?
	   What was the strong motivation for so many countries to go
	   against their own economic and self-determination interests?

It was pointed out to me that the Wassenaar Arrangement has no legal
effect.  Each country has to go back and amend its own local controls.
However, I personally saw cases more than a year ago where both Japan
and Belgium were restricting bona fide civilian crypto transactions
"because Wassenaar requires us to" when in fact it didn't.  This
development will give these countries much more "cover" to implement
draconian policies, under secret arm-twisting from the US.

We will have to fight this one in the trenches, in each country.
First step is to raise a hue and cry and put each government on the
defensive (as they well ought to be).  Then let's find out what "deal"
they made with the devil.  Finally let's see whether, as Perry says,
civil rights and political processes work, and the will of the people
will actually end up codified in the laws of each country.  Or not.

	John

PS:  I particularly like Ambassador Aaron's characterization that
this new development will help US industry, by censoring foreign crypto
publishers in the same way the US government censors US publishers.
A giant step forward for freedom and commerce everywhere, eh Mr. Aaron?
What an incredibly talented liar, I mean diplomat, he is.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 08:55:01 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: y2k/gary north delusions (fwd)
Message-ID: <199812050044.SAA26846@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 20:22:18 -0500
> From: Michal Hohensee 
> Subject: Re: y2k/gary north delusions

> You cannot sustain a modern city without a working sewer system. 
> Remember what cities were like in the middle ages?  I believe some
> historians refer to them as "population sinks" for the surrounding
> countryside.  Not for a lack of wealth or commerce, but for a lack of
> sanitation.

Paris and London had populations of over a million each and didn't have a
sewer system. It was traditional for people to throw their chamber pots out
into the street along with the offal from the various animals.

The reality is that the folks who support the various systems would have
them no manual over-ride within 24 - 48 hours so the worst case scenario
won't happen. Countries that aren't automated won't notice the difference
and the city services that are won't be down more than a week.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
             Technology cannot make us other than what we are.

                                           James P. Hogan

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 08:58:12 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: y2k/gary north delusions (fwd)
Message-ID: <199812050046.SAA26911@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Subject: Re: y2k/gary north delusions
> Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 17:40:59 -0600 (CST)
> From: ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home)

> Well... The answer is that there is much less washing needed for
> survival than it is needed for day to day civilized American life.

True, you don't have to water your grass and wash your car.

> For instance, I change my shirts every day. If shit hits the fan,
> you can wear a shirt for two weeks. Similar story is with other
> clothes.

You won't do that sort of stuff for long. A couple of months at best before
you get skin infections and then it's down-hill from there.

It's pretty much a bogus point though since none of the systems like power,
water, and sewer won't be down more than a week at most.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
             Technology cannot make us other than what we are.

                                           James P. Hogan

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 09:05:50 +0800
To: ravage@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Subject: Re: y2k/gary north delusions (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199812050044.SAA26846@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <199812050046.SAA19446@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Jim Choate wrote:
> 
> > Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 20:22:18 -0500
> > From: Michal Hohensee 
> > Subject: Re: y2k/gary north delusions
> 
> > You cannot sustain a modern city without a working sewer system. 
> > Remember what cities were like in the middle ages?  I believe some
> > historians refer to them as "population sinks" for the surrounding
> > countryside.  Not for a lack of wealth or commerce, but for a lack of
> > sanitation.
> 
> Paris and London had populations of over a million each and didn't have a
> sewer system. It was traditional for people to throw their chamber pots out
> into the street along with the offal from the various animals.

Guess why they had those devastating epidemics.

	- Igor.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 09:08:06 +0800
To: mah248@nyu.edu (Michal Hohensee)
Subject: Re: y2k/gary north delusions
In-Reply-To: <36688ACA.C9F515B3@nyu.edu>
Message-ID: <199812050047.SAA19462@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Michal Hohensee wrote:
> 
> 
> Igor Chudov @ home wrote:
> > 
> > Petro wrote: 
> > >       Ok, so let's cut that back to what we _need_. First off, we don't
> > > dump our dish water down the drain, it gets "recycled" to flush the
> > > toilets.
> > 
> > get them to shit outside.
> > 
> 
> Bad bad bad bad bad bad *bad* idea.  This might be ok in the Russian
> countryside, or any other countryside, but it an *excessively* bad thing
> in just about any modern city.  If running water fails to run in the
> cities, and people do as you suggest, and take their business outside,
> it will not be long before tremendous numbers of people get sick and
> die.  What with the high concentrations that people live in in most
> cities, I expect that this'd make the Black Death look like a mild case
> of the flu.

Like I said, someone would need to build a latrine. That's all that's
needed.

	- Igor.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 11:17:42 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Vengeance Libertarianism
Message-ID: <3668A217.32CB@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



My oh my,

The alternative to outright revolution has historically been to pack up
and ship out to whatever frontier was in vogue. Dangerous, difficult,
but apparently compelling if the home situation sucked badly enough.
Potentially very rewarding to the survivors.

The historical fate of any frontier has been that as soon as it has
become somewat hospitable the shitheads arrive with their carpet bags
and make it over into the same fucking thing that everyone ran away from
in the first place. The first sign of inFESTERation was often a church,
followed by a town hall which filled up quickly enough and shortly
thereafter hired a sheriff to enforce the town gun ban and who
eventually needed more men...

And so the cycle repeats with the virtual frontier we're in right now.
It was just fine until "they" came along to "civilize" it. Unfortunately
backs are to the wall and there is nowhere else to go because SPACE
SUCKS MOOSE ALIENS DRY LIKE BUGS. Top that.

they        - esRb
to civilize - to own, regulate, commercialize and tax
esRb        - evil, scumsucking, Reptilian bastards

I could probably develop some sort of virtual space cowboy allegory here
that would go on for (p)ages and involve the painful, bloody death of
many an evil villian at the hand of a courageous hero and enough deviant
sex ( whinny ) to keep the audience enthralled to the very end. The
story could probably be continued until well after the traffic has
subsided but what the hell, I like driving 5 mph, it's good for my car's
engine, my patience and the bandwidth shortage.

m




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 11:24:18 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Streams, Voice, and Sensitive Dependence
Message-ID: <3668A32C.5954@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> http://www.starium.com
> 14.4 modem, awsome sound quality, 2048 bit DH, 3DES.

The web site is pretty sparse. No wonder I couldn't find them before - I
was looking for "Starion" a while back. I'll call them next week -
they're practically local. What's the approximate price?

I have another question for you:

I thought I was a real whiz kid a few years back when I figured out that
by using an agreed upon startup key then using a "random" public/private
key pair generated by the SW, two voice stations could exchange a
"random" session key. With thumbscrews and the rack you could not get
the session key. Even the dreaded rubber hose would fail. The startup
key protected the PK. The ultimate security was as good as the PK
portion. The conversation was practically pre-shredded.

I was bummed when I discovered this had already been patented and was
called EKE.

Does the Starium phone accomplish this effect?

Mike




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 09:17:23 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: y2k/gary north delusions (fwd)
Message-ID: <199812050109.TAA27156@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Subject: Re: y2k/gary north delusions (fwd)
> Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 18:46:17 -0600 (CST)
> From: ichudov@Algebra.Com (Igor Chudov @ home)

> > Paris and London had populations of over a million each and didn't have a
> > sewer system. It was traditional for people to throw their chamber pots out
> > into the street along with the offal from the various animals.
> 
> Guess why they had those devastating epidemics.

True enough, but that sort of stuff takes more than a week or two. The
various cities could go around setting up port-a-potties and latrines in
parks with plastic liners for easy removal, etc.

It isn't nearly the civilization shaking event some would make of it.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
             Technology cannot make us other than what we are.

                                           James P. Hogan

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 09:50:53 +0800
To: ravage@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Subject: Re: y2k/gary north delusions (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199812050109.TAA27156@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <199812050121.TAA19903@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Jim Choate wrote:
> 
> 
> Forwarded message:
> 
> > Subject: Re: y2k/gary north delusions (fwd)
> > Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 18:46:17 -0600 (CST)
> > From: ichudov@Algebra.Com (Igor Chudov @ home)
> 
> > > Paris and London had populations of over a million each and didn't have a
> > > sewer system. It was traditional for people to throw their chamber pots out
> > > into the street along with the offal from the various animals.
> > 
> > Guess why they had those devastating epidemics.
> 
> True enough, but that sort of stuff takes more than a week or two. The
> various cities could go around setting up port-a-potties and latrines in
> parks with plastic liners for easy removal, etc.
> 
> It isn't nearly the civilization shaking event some would make of it.

Well, at least shitting is not going to be the hardest part of it.

	- Igor.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 09:52:15 +0800
To: nobody@replay.com (Anonymous)
Subject: Re: .
In-Reply-To: <199812050110.CAA14572@replay.com>
Message-ID: <199812050126.TAA19947@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Anonymous wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> > A few rules of thumb result from even cursory examination
> > of the likely environment:
> > 
> ...
> > 5. Ultimately, the only way the remailers will provide
> >    what might be described as Pretty Good Security will
> >    be when we have software that maintains a regular
> >    or random rate of messages to and from the remailer
> >    cloud, a stream into which the meaningful messages
> >    can be inserted with no visible change in traffic.
> >    Until then, the best we can do is try to keep traffic
> >    levels up, and to send and receive frequently enough
> >    to frustrate end-to-end traffic analysis.
> 
> Well, the existing remailer net doesn't make "Pretty Good" anonymity very
> feasible. I'd think something based on the general idea behind Crowds.
> 
> (Furthermore, most remailer structures still can't erase some other security
> concerns --
>   1: remailers acutally can be hacked or physically compromised
>   2: clients really can be screwed
>   3: etc.
> 
> To help solve the first, you'd want a two-box setup doing remailing, with the
> security-critical stuff loaded on a box not directly connected to the Net with
> something 140-1ish to make tampering harder, a secure OS, etc. -- or, of
> course, you can scrap all that to get really big remailer count.

As long as you do not see the box and do not control its manufacture,
I see no reason why you should have ny more trust in it.

igor

> To help solve the second problem, there needs to be a better web-of-trust 
> setup -- that is, one which applies to code as well as keys. Those who wish to
> verify code get a .sig-verifying program from a trusted source then use a WoT
> to authenticate various facets of the program necessary for security.
> 
> A solution to the third problem is expected RSN.)
> 
> > 
> > 6. Don't send anything that can have grave consequences.
> 
> Remember the consequences to an adversary who uses its secret decoder ring,
> though: the more plausible it becomes that a certain source is being used for
> intelligence-gathering, the more likely it is that that source will promptly
> begin to run dry as the spied-upon realize that Something Got Broke.  My
> advice, however, agrees with that of the other Anonymous. That is, unless
> you've really thought things out, think of an remailed message as merely
> .sigless, not anonymous.
> 
> > 
> > 7. Take names. Always take names. Some day...
> > 
> > FUDBusterMonger
> > 
> > It Ain't FUD til I SAY it's FUD!
> 



	- Igor.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 03:02:51 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: export of printed crypto [Was Re:Wassenaar Statement]
Message-ID: <199812041827.TAA03335@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



The PGP source code is open, published in book form and
this gets stronger 1st amendment protection.

US crypto companies have also read the relevant portions
of the EAR. Yet, none, to my knowledge, have tried this.

Would any attorney reading the list care to comment?
The EAR clearly states that printed crypto is not subject
to the EAR whether the material is publically disseminated
or not.

Anyway, about one second after somebody did this another extra- 
constitutional "emergency" executive order would prohibit it.

 -Wassenaar

>In the United States, it is currently legal to export any cryptographic
>software you like - as long as it is in printed form.  This is because
>of fears of violating the First Amendment.  Not all countries have such
>strong conventions for protecting the printed word.

>PGP source code is being exported in printed form, scanned in overseas,


        




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 10:26:24 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: y2k/gary north delusions (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199812050109.TAA27156@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <199812050120.UAA006.51@whgiii>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



In <199812050109.TAA27156@einstein.ssz.com>, on 12/04/98 
   at 07:09 PM, Jim Choate  said:

>True enough, but that sort of stuff takes more than a week or two. The
>various cities could go around setting up port-a-potties and latrines in
>parks with plastic liners for easy removal, etc.

>It isn't nearly the civilization shaking event some would make of it.

I have never seen anything close to "civilization" in a major city. I
doubt anyone would notice the added stench if the sewers went out in one
of those cesspools.

-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
---------------------------------------------------------------





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michal Hohensee 
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 08:24:51 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: y2k/gary north delusions
In-Reply-To: <199812042048.OAA15267@manifold.algebra.com>
Message-ID: <36688ACA.C9F515B3@nyu.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Igor Chudov @ home wrote:
> 
> Petro wrote: 
> >       Ok, so let's cut that back to what we _need_. First off, we don't
> > dump our dish water down the drain, it gets "recycled" to flush the
> > toilets.
> 
> get them to shit outside.
> 

Bad bad bad bad bad bad *bad* idea.  This might be ok in the Russian
countryside, or any other countryside, but it an *excessively* bad thing
in just about any modern city.  If running water fails to run in the
cities, and people do as you suggest, and take their business outside,
it will not be long before tremendous numbers of people get sick and
die.  What with the high concentrations that people live in in most
cities, I expect that this'd make the Black Death look like a mild case
of the flu.

You cannot sustain a modern city without a working sewer system. 
Remember what cities were like in the middle ages?  I believe some
historians refer to them as "population sinks" for the surrounding
countryside.  Not for a lack of wealth or commerce, but for a lack of
sanitation.

Michael Hohensee




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 13:10:30 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: y2k/gary north delusions (fwd)
Message-ID: <199812050458.WAA27935@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Subject: Re: y2k/gary north delusions (fwd)
> Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 19:21:36 -0600 (CST)
> From: ichudov@Algebra.Com (Igor Chudov @ home)

> > True enough, but that sort of stuff takes more than a week or two. The
> > various cities could go around setting up port-a-potties and latrines in
> > parks with plastic liners for easy removal, etc.
> > 
> > It isn't nearly the civilization shaking event some would make of it.
> 
> Well, at least shitting is not going to be the hardest part of it.

True enough. Power, water, police, fire, etc. will come back pretty quickly
if anyone notices it was ever down. The really poor won't notice anything.
The most effected would be the wealthy. There will be outbreaks in Compton
and similar ilk but by no stretch of the imagination will it become a
conflagration. That's the beauty of an armed populace. Even if the police
don't respond it'll burn out as the front of rioters thin with increasing
radius and the odds go down.

I'd bet the delivery of foodstuffs to the store wouldn't slow down one bit.
It's possible to run a combine without the GPS. The trucks are driven by
people, they're loaded by fork-lifts. And you'll need to hunt long and hard
for a commercial freezer with a clock in it.

I've never seen a damn that didn't have manual gate controls so flood
control and hydro-electric will come back pretty quickly. The actual switch
control panel in power plants have manual over-rides everywhere. Ditto for
electric power grids.

Mass transportation like trains and aircraft will be effected. Individual
transportation like cars won't stop.

Inconvenient and expensive, you betcha. The decline of western civilization,
not hardly.


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
             Technology cannot make us other than what we are.

                                           James P. Hogan

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 15:17:37 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: What was the quid pro quo for Wassenaar countries?
In-Reply-To: <199812050240.SAA24692@toad.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




(cryptography@c2.net removed from distribution list)


At 10:17 PM -0800 12/4/98, Lucky Green wrote:

>Ultimately, It won't make a difference, but sure, why not. Crypto regs can
>go one way, and one way only: more restrictive. See some 5 years of my
>postings on this topic. Lobbying and litigation can only delay the arrival
>of a total ban on general purpose strong crypto, not prevent it. Note that
>I am not at all claiming that either lobbying or litigation is useless. By
>all means, keep it up. It just won't change the fact that the ratchet
>turns only into one direction. Until the ratchet breaks, but that is
>another matter entirely and tends to be acompanied by lots of dead bodies.

Indeed. What more is there to say on this point? One way only. Even the "do
gooders" actually make things worse, by "greasing the skids" for
legislative talk and legislative "compromise"...said compromise always
being another turn of ratchet.

(This applies to many industries. I recently heard T.J. Rodgers, CEO of
Cypress Semiconductor, repeat his oft-made point that Silicon Valley and
the high tech industry gains _nothing_ by talking to Washington. That as
soon as dialog is started with Washington, things get worse. This applies
as well to crypto, to gun rights, to everything. Everything Washington
touches turns to statist shit.)


On another topic, what of the "free export of crypto" nations? Some
nations, or folks in some nations, like to talk about how they are actually
"more free" than Americans are because they can export strong crypto.
Canada comes to mind, as there are a couple of companies we know about
using the ostensibly weaker Canadian export controls.

(I maintain, and Lucky can be my witness that I expressed this forcefully
to some Canadian entrepreneurs very recently, that Canada's relative
laxness on crypto arises first, from their ignorance of the issues and
second, from the fact that Washington hasn't yet told them how high to
jump. I have long believed the U.S. would issue the orders and other
countries would turn out to be just as restrictive, if not more
restrictive, as they have fewer in-country protections against restrictions
on strong crypto. If Canada, Finland, etc. tighten up, can Anguilla be far
behind?)


>I doubt we will find out anytime soon. Favors? Blackmail? Most likely
>all of the above.

Or perhaps "strange fruit"? That is, hackers found hanging from a tree....

Or direct deposits to the Swiss bank accounts of Wassenaar delegates?

Or just intense lobbying, threats of foreign aid cutoffs, and repeated
showings of the "If you only knew what we know" videotape (specially
converted to PAL).

Nothing very surprising.

--Tim May

"I swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, just the way the President did."
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 13:22:16 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: the shit hitting the fan (fwd)
Message-ID: <199812050515.XAA28089@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 06:00:13 +0100
> From: Anonymous 
> Subject: the shit hitting the fan

> At 02:48 PM 12/4/98 -0600, Igor Chudov @ home wrote:
> >Even flushing toilets is not necessary as anyone can shit outside.
> >
> >I am speaking out of personal experiences, living with water outages
> >while we were in the Russian countryside. It was no big deal, period.
> 
> Moron.  At a low population density you can do anything, burn wood, leaded
> gas,
> etc., no problem.
> 
> LA has 1e7 people who shit about a kilo per day.  Compute the volume of that
> after a week.

It's not the raw volume that's critical but rather the percentage of the
average personal space per inhabitant versus how much to store a weeks
worth. For the average person storing a weeks worth of solid waste in a
platic bag with bleach, lye, or similar material is reasonable.

I've gone on long duration camping trips of about a weeks length and the
storing and portage costs are not excessive (having a boat or horse helps
move it around).


    ____________________________________________________________________
 
             Technology cannot make us other than what we are.

                                           James P. Hogan

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Gilmore 
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 16:00:58 +0800
To: Lucky Green 
Subject: Re: Which way are crypto regs going?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199812050741.XAA26301@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Lucky Green said:
> Ultimately, It won't make a difference, but sure, why not. Crypto regs can
> go one way, and one way only: more restrictive.

Lucky's such an optimist!  Actually, crypto regs have gone many
different directions.  The general direction in the US is toward
more openness.  (I've been watching them longer than Lucky has been.)

Authentication used to be licensed.  It isn't any more -- though
the bastards reserve the right to lie about what is authentication.

ATM machines used to require a license.

40-bit crypto used to require a license.

Financial institutions used to require licenses.

Big companies used to need licenses for intra-company use.

DES used to require a license.  (Still does, until the incredibly
cold warriors move their bowels and produce a new, uh, release
of the regs.)

Maybe sometime next year I'll be able to say, "Publishing crypto on
the net used to require a license but now it doesn't, since the courts
started enforcing the Constitution."  Whether this happens or not is
NOT under the control of the NSA -- I think.

On the other hand, crypto regs in other countries tended to start
from "unrestricted", so indeed there was no way they could go from there
except "more restrictive".  But after the first dollop of restriction,
they could go either way, as we've seen in various countries.
Germany for example seems to be loosening.  Canada turned out to be
looser than anyone had suspected, and is still trying to be loose
despite intense arm-twisting by US wiretappers.

Some countries actually seem to care what their citizens think about
their crypto laws, unlike the shining example of democracy, the USSA.
And when we educate the citizens, they tend to make the right choices.
Let's keep trying.

	John




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Gilmore 
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 16:05:18 +0800
To: gtaylor@efa.org.au
Subject: Greg Taylor: preliminary Wassenaar details from three countries
Message-ID: <199812050742.XAA26319@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



[Greg graciously allowed me to repost this.   --gnu]

Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 15:22:53 +1000
From: Greg Taylor 

Hi John,

You wrote:
>I have not found a single confirmation of the Aarons statement that
>the 33 Wassenaar countries have agreed to change the exemption for
>mass market crypto software.  (The NY Times and Reuters stories both
>quote Ambassador Aarons.)

I think Aarons must have an advanced degree in spin doctoring, but
nevertheless  information about new restrictions on mass market software
has also come from 3 independent well-placed sources.

>From the UK crypto list:
=================
Just talked to Dirk Weicke, Senior Adviser to Wassenaar Organisation.
Tel:+43 1 516360)

No written details will be issued until next week, but gist is:

*) No alteration to question of whether Wassenaar covers intangible exports.
Up to signatory states to interpret and legislate.

*) mass-market software, symmetric key length limited to 56-bits

*) software generally available, but with other restrictive tests on
end-user re-configurability, symmetric key length limited to 64-bits

*) Assymetric key lengths (not sure how relates to above) limited to:

RSA & Digital logarithm: 512 bits
Elliptic curve : 112 bits
=====================


And here's a view from David Jones (EFC), from the GILC list:

=====================
- There is "some relaxation" for restrictions on symmetric methods
  using key lengths of 56 bits or less.  Stronger crypto would require
  an export license.

- There is no restriction on mass-market software using symmetric methods
  and a key length of 64 bits or less.  Stronger mass-market crypto would
  require an export license.

- "Public Domain Software is not restricted"
  [If this is really true, this is still an important loophole.]

- There is not yet any clear information about the status of
  "intangible goods", like crypto software on a web site, or sent by email,
  as opposed to "tangible goods", like software on a floppy disk or CD-ROM.

- The restrictions on mass-market software greater than 64 bits is
  "for public safety" reasons and will last for 2 years,
  after which it will be reviewed.

=============================

Yesterday I got the Australian government interpretation from Robbie
Costmeyer in Canberra.  Costmeyer is the Defence bureaucrat responsible for
approving export licenses.  I was told that Wassenaar had now agreed that
the General Software Note  waiver no longer applied to Category 5/2 items
(i.e. crypto) on the controlled goods list.  It has always been the view of
Defence Signals Directorate here that it was an oversight that crypto
software came under the GSN.  That reason was used to justify Australia's
going one step further than required under the original Wassenaar
Arrangement and disallowing exemptions to the export licensing rules.  A
few other countries do the same (USA, New Zealand, France, Russia).
Canberra thus views the latest change as the correction of an oversight.
Clearly there is a difference of interpretation here regarding public
domain software (compare the Canadian view above).  This question needs
further investigation.

The Australian view is that the latest Wassenaar changes are a relaxation
of the previous rules.  And they're right, when compared with the previous
rules applying here.  Australia will now move to amend the Defence
Strategic Goods List (DSGL) to allow exemptions for small key lengths as
decribed above.

For other countries, the effects remain to be seen.  We'll just have to
wait for more information to filter out.

Greg




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Phillip Hallam-Baker" 
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 13:36:01 +0800
To: 
Subject: RE: What was the quid pro quo for Wassenaar countries?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <000e01be200d$d7be9e10$8007a8c0@russell.internal>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



John Gilmore may be right, but remember folks that in Europe we have this
thing the Greeks invented called democracy. One of the ideas of democracy
is that decisions are not made in secret closed meetings.

The interpretation of the US ambassador appears to be based on the
assumption
that the governmental proceedures of democratic countries are like those of
his home country. In fact European governments cannot make law simply by
telling the national police force to arrest folk who engage in particular
behaviour.

The system of checks and balances may be described in the US constitution
but it is entrenched in the European polity. The UK does not have a national
police force precisely to stop Hooverism.

Even directives of the European Commission do not have legal force until the
national parliaments enact legislation to implement the directive.

One should also remember that the government of the Netherlands has agreed
to control the sale and use of narcotics. If their efforts to control
cryptography are as dilligent we have nothing to worry about.

In addition under the single European act the entire country of Europe is
one export zone for crypto control purposes. I fail to see that stopping
Brits from exporting crypto to the US changes the equation a great deal.


There once was an English king called Canute who attempted to demonstrate
to his courtiers that he was fallible and could not order the tide to
turn. Perhaps Clinton's courtiers need to learn that they suffer the same
limmitation.

		Phill







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 14:56:18 +0800
To: ravage@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Subject: Re: y2k/gary north delusions (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199812050458.WAA27935@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <199812050638.AAA00663@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Jim Choate wrote:
> Forwarded message:
> 
> > Subject: Re: y2k/gary north delusions (fwd)
> > Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 19:21:36 -0600 (CST)
> > From: ichudov@Algebra.Com (Igor Chudov @ home)
> 
> > > True enough, but that sort of stuff takes more than a week or two. The
> > > various cities could go around setting up port-a-potties and latrines in
> > > parks with plastic liners for easy removal, etc.
> > > 
> > > It isn't nearly the civilization shaking event some would make of it.
> > 
> > Well, at least shitting is not going to be the hardest part of it.
> 
> True enough. Power, water, police, fire, etc. will come back pretty quickly
> if anyone notices it was ever down. The really poor won't notice anything.
> The most effected would be the wealthy. There will be outbreaks in Compton
> and similar ilk but by no stretch of the imagination will it become a
> conflagration. That's the beauty of an armed populace. Even if the police
> don't respond it'll burn out as the front of rioters thin with increasing
> radius and the odds go down.
> 
> I'd bet the delivery of foodstuffs to the store wouldn't slow down one bit.
> It's possible to run a combine without the GPS. The trucks are driven by
> people, they're loaded by fork-lifts. And you'll need to hunt long and hard
> for a commercial freezer with a clock in it.
> 
> I've never seen a damn that didn't have manual gate controls so flood
> control and hydro-electric will come back pretty quickly. The actual switch
> control panel in power plants have manual over-rides everywhere. Ditto for
> electric power grids.
> 
> Mass transportation like trains and aircraft will be effected. Individual
> transportation like cars won't stop.
> 
> Inconvenient and expensive, you betcha. The decline of western civilization,
> not hardly.

It's a flexible society.

	- Igor.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 15:05:30 +0800
To: nobody@replay.com (Anonymous)
Subject: Re: the shit hitting the fan
In-Reply-To: <199812050500.GAA01545@replay.com>
Message-ID: <199812050639.AAA00677@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Anonymous wrote:
> At 02:48 PM 12/4/98 -0600, Igor Chudov @ home wrote:
> >Even flushing toilets is not necessary as anyone can shit outside.
> >
> >I am speaking out of personal experiences, living with water outages
> >while we were in the Russian countryside. It was no big deal, period.
> 
> Moron.  At a low population density you can do anything, burn wood, leaded
> gas,
> etc., no problem.
> 
> LA has 1e7 people who shit about a kilo per day.  Compute the volume of that
> after a week.

Dumbass, latrines solve this problem.

Computer your shit volume yourself.

	- Igor.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Thomas Dupri 
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 17:07:17 +0800
To: 
Subject: FREE WEEK XXX PORN SEX http://i.am/dupri
Message-ID: <419.436134.15638692tdupri@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



PORN AT IT'S FINEST! YOUR SEARCH IS OVER! CLICK NOW FOR A FREE FREE 
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Lucky Green 
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 08:21:40 +0800
To: Michael Motyka 
Subject: Re: Streams, Voice, and Sensitive Dependence
In-Reply-To: <36686876.1AF5@lsil.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



http://www.starium.com

14.4 modem, awsome sound quality, 2048 bit DH, 3DES. Have one, love it.

--Lucky

On Fri, 4 Dec 1998, Michael Motyka wrote:

> 
> > It is my understanding that the PGP algorithm is primarily intended
> > as a block cypher.  Therefore, wouldn't an Outer Block stream cypher
> > be more effective for phone conversations?  Both solutions require 
> > hardware for a practical (tolerably noiseless) implementation, so 
> > there's nothing to be gained by streaming data into a block format.
> >
> Unless you have a really fast ( 1 Mbit / s? ) data connection you're
> going to want to do some voice compression. The algorithms I've seen
> break the audio into discrete time frames and (de)compress frame by
> frame. As a point of reference say about 16 bytes for every 33 msec of
> voice. Quality roughly follows data rate, of course. This makes a block
> cipher seem not so unreasonable.
> 
> Block cipher or stream cipher, either way you're going to have to
> introduce a latency of _at_least_ a couple of frames to allow for
> resends or deliberate out-of-order frame transmission. This makes the
> block cipher look like the better choice.
> 
> I think that using HW voice compression and a 33.6 modem you could get a
> full duplex secure conversation over POTS with a latency in the 0.1 -
> 0.3 second range and a direct cost in the vicinity of $100. With a
> reasonably quick microP any encryption method could probably be done as
> SW.
> 
> This is not a particularly difficult device to build. Any fine US
> citizens want to build some prototypes? 
> 
> Mike
> 
> 


-- Lucky Green  PGP v5 encrypted email preferred.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Jean-Francois Avon" 
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 14:49:43 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks" 
Subject: Fwd: Attn. INTERNATIONAL FIREARM COMMUNITY !
Message-ID: <199812050630.BAA02739@cti06.citenet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



==================BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE==================
>Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 22:35:56 -0800
>From: Donna Ferolie 
>Subject: Attn. INTERNATIONAL FIREARM COMMUNITY !

This message has gone out to firearm owners all over the world as well on
the cdn-firearm chat and cdn-firearm digest.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
ATTENTION INTERNATIONAL FIREARM COMMUNITY

This message is specifically dedicated to sport shooters from around the
globe. I would like to acknowledge our friends from the U.K, South Africa, Brazil, New
Zealand, Australia and the good old U.S.A. I have just sent out idividual
messages to all of these countries and some others including Germany, Belgium, Austria, Boliva,
Argentina, Aruba Slovakia and Barbados.  If your country has not been listed please
contact me directly. I am trying to develop a list of countries that are logging onto our open
firearms chat line. It is my goal to have firearm owners from every country monitoring and
sharing their experiences.

Please encourage fellow shooters in your country to come on line and
take advantage of this open forum. I fully realize that the primary focus of the Canadian
Firearms Chat Line is aimed at Canadian gun laws; however, there is a great deal of
pertinent international information that could be shared in this medium and we will all be the
beneficiaries if we willfully share our ideas and experiences.

I have another strategy up my sleeve regarding rallying the
international firearm community prior to the final outcome of the United Nations firearms
workshops in the year 2000; therefore it is paramount that we maintain frequent global
communications. I will be exploring some of my ideas with the NRA and the Sporting
Shooters Association of Australia in the new year and floating some draft strategies for open
discussion. 

Moreover, I fully intend on attending most of the United Nations firearm
workshops therefore having everyone connected to one open forum would assist
me in getting this information out all of you in a quick concise manner.

I've had a few myopic individuals ask me why I should be so concerned
about gun control in other countries ?  As far as I am concerned we should all be
concerned -VERY concerned ! When one of our sister countries falls we should all feel
their pain and learn something valuable, because we may be next. We cannot for a minute
forget about the draconian laws rammed down the throats of other Commonwealth countries
in particular or any free-thinking society. Can we really delude ourselves into
thinking that it couldn't happen here- don t kid yourself, as I write, the erosion of our rights
is going down the same path as Australians are treading, faster than we care to admit, and
we all should instinctively know it?  How would Canadians like to have all of their
semis and pump shotguns and rifles declared illegal and confiscated overnight by a
communist-leaning, bleeding heart liberal government- think about it !!

It is important for Canadians to realize that countries all over the
world feel no different that we do. They feel just as vulnerable and thus are seeking guidance
and support. We are in an excellent position to offer assistance to each other via this open
forum. I truly believe we can learn from each others  mistakes and triumphs. Perhaps if we can
tap into this universal intelligence on a continuous basis we could overtake the
mighty Goliath.

If time permits I would like to post the names of all anti-firearm NGO's
and their meetings which are going on simultaneously all over the world as we speak. I
think it is high time that we banded together as one solid global unit in an effort to
effectively launch a counter attack against those that take glee in the gradual
erosion of our civil rights and liberties.

A frequent complaint about this type of forum is the problem of
receiving an excessive number of messages, but I believe the rewards associated with this
hassle far out weigh the inconvenience. I care very much that our friends in South Africa are now
subject to new guns laws. I am sickened by what has transpired in Australia and the
U.K. I want the world to know how crime has escalated in Brazil and yet they live under
the most stringent gun control laws. As a point of interest the " boys from
Brazil " will be preparing a written paper outlining this very fact which I will present on their
behalf to the anti-gun Brazilian delegation at the next U.N workshop in Vienna in the latter
part of Jan/99.

In conclusion, if you are interested in banding together as one strong
universal voice, then get your friends connected to this open chat /and or digest.  Let us not
lose focus of our own battle at home, but let us not turn a blind eye to our global
neighbours  struggles.

I understand that English is a problem for some of you, but we are
understanding and we willing to work through any language barriers. So please do NOT feel
uncomfortable to communicate with us - we d love to hear what has transpired in your
country !

Remember, repeated blows to the lower extremities will eventually cause
the giant to fall !

You can subscribe to the Canadian Firearms Digest and the Firearms Chat
line by

1) Subcribe to the cdn chat & cdn digest  ( separately )

2) e-mailing the following address for both chat & digest:


3) Leave the subject section   blank  

4) Write in the body of the message

subscribe cdn-firearm chat
end

subcribe cdn-firearm digest
end

Remember when you are subscribing to the chat is separate from the
digest.

Please feel free to contact me anytime at the following:

donnaferolie@sympatico.ca
Donna Ferolie


Keep up the fight!


Donna Ferolie
Canada


===================END FORWARDED MESSAGE===================






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 09:35:02 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: .
Message-ID: <199812050110.CAA14572@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




...
> A few rules of thumb result from even cursory examination
> of the likely environment:
> 
...
> 5. Ultimately, the only way the remailers will provide
>    what might be described as Pretty Good Security will
>    be when we have software that maintains a regular
>    or random rate of messages to and from the remailer
>    cloud, a stream into which the meaningful messages
>    can be inserted with no visible change in traffic.
>    Until then, the best we can do is try to keep traffic
>    levels up, and to send and receive frequently enough
>    to frustrate end-to-end traffic analysis.

Well, the existing remailer net doesn't make "Pretty Good" anonymity very
feasible. I'd think something based on the general idea behind Crowds.

(Furthermore, most remailer structures still can't erase some other security
concerns --
  1: remailers acutally can be hacked or physically compromised
  2: clients really can be screwed
  3: etc.

To help solve the first, you'd want a two-box setup doing remailing, with the
security-critical stuff loaded on a box not directly connected to the Net with
something 140-1ish to make tampering harder, a secure OS, etc. -- or, of
course, you can scrap all that to get really big remailer count.

To help solve the second problem, there needs to be a better web-of-trust 
setup -- that is, one which applies to code as well as keys. Those who wish to
verify code get a .sig-verifying program from a trusted source then use a WoT
to authenticate various facets of the program necessary for security.

A solution to the third problem is expected RSN.)

> 
> 6. Don't send anything that can have grave consequences.

Remember the consequences to an adversary who uses its secret decoder ring,
though: the more plausible it becomes that a certain source is being used for
intelligence-gathering, the more likely it is that that source will promptly
begin to run dry as the spied-upon realize that Something Got Broke.  My
advice, however, agrees with that of the other Anonymous. That is, unless
you've really thought things out, think of an remailed message as merely
.sigless, not anonymous.

> 
> 7. Take names. Always take names. Some day...
> 
> FUDBusterMonger
> 
> It Ain't FUD til I SAY it's FUD!




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 10:26:14 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: PGP Disk
Message-ID: <199812050205.DAA19561@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>Has anyone had the chance to try out the new McAfee PGP disk?
>It seems pretty straightforward, allowing for the creation of
>encrypted "drives" using the CAST algorithm.  Is anyone aware of
>any security flaws with it?

I'm sure somebody will check if they are bored some day. Where can we find
the source code?

If the source code isn't available, don't trust it. That's a good general
rule.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 13:14:50 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: the shit hitting the fan
Message-ID: <199812050500.GAA01545@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





At 02:48 PM 12/4/98 -0600, Igor Chudov @ home wrote:
>Even flushing toilets is not necessary as anyone can shit outside.
>
>I am speaking out of personal experiences, living with water outages
>while we were in the Russian countryside. It was no big deal, period.

Moron.  At a low population density you can do anything, burn wood, leaded
gas,
etc., no problem.

LA has 1e7 people who shit about a kilo per day.  Compute the volume of that
after a week.








  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 13:22:47 +0800
To: Anonymous 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




At 03:05 AM 12/5/98 +0100, Anonymous wrote about some new product:
>If the source code isn't available, don't trust it. That's a good general
>rule.


Where is the source for pgpfone?








  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 06:37:04 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



   
 
  
  
Citibank in drug cash probe 
GAO report slams bank for secretly moving millions in alleged drug money 

December 4, 1998: 10:56 a.m. ET

http://cnnfn.com/worldbiz/9812/04/citibank/

 

 

Citigroup's Dimon resigns - Nov. 02, 1998 

Citibank Buys Into Microsoft-Supported E-Billing Venture - Sep. 14, 1998 


 

General Accounting Office 

Citibank 
  NEW YORK (CNNfn) - Citibank secretly transferred up to $100 million in alleged drug money for the brother of the former Mexican president and violated its own internal controls on money laundering, the General Accounting Office said Friday. 
 The GAO charged in a report that the second-largest U.S. bank facilitated "a money-managing system that disguised the origin, destination and beneficial owner of the funds."
 The report, entitled "Raul Salinas, Citibank and Alleged Money Laundering," could lead to congressional hearings against Citibank in the new year. Salinas is the eldest brother of Carlos Salinas de Gortari, who served as Mexican president between 1988 and 1994.
 There have been repeated rumors that Salinas was linked to drug lords. But according to the report, Citibank's private banking unit asked Salinas few questions when approached by him in 1992.
 As a mid-level government employee, Salinas earned less than $200,00 a year. But between 1992 and 1994 he moved more than $90 million through Citibank accounts. Checks worth millions of dollars were taken by hand to Citibank Mexico by Salinas' wife Paulina. The money then was moved to Switzerland through a complex series of international transactions.
 Starting in mid-1992, the GAO said, "Citibank actions assisted Mr. Salinas with these transfers and effectively disguised the funds' source and destination, thus breaking the funds' paper trail."
 Citibank has its own "know-your-customer" procedures, which it failed to follow in the Salinas case, the GAO said.
 It was only after Salinas was charged with murder in 1995 that Citibank investigated the source of funds. 
 Even then, according to a bank representative, "Citibank New York's Mexican division believed that all of Mr. Salinas' funds had been obtained legally, with a large portion resulting from the sale of a construction company he owned," the report states. 
 "However, Citibank reportedly knew no details about the construction company, including its name, who had purchased it, or the amount of money generated by its sale."
 GAO investigators also criticize the bank for establishing a Cayman Islands trust to disguise the source and destination of Salinas' money.
 Salinas has denied any wrongdoing, saying that the money came from Mexican industrialists who wanted him to establish an investment fund.
 Citibank said in a statement the report "contains gross errors of fact and interpretation" and "ignores recent progress in strengthened law and industry procedures which Citibank strongly supports in keeping with our commitment to combat money laundering, to comply with the letter and spirit of related laws and to continually strengthen our procedures everywhere we operate."
 Spokesman Dick Howe added, "We have looked into the matter ourselves and have found that neither the company nor any employee has violated the law. We're cooperating fully with law enforcement authorities."
 The GAO said it was unable to determine whether Citibank broke U.S. money laundering laws. But the Justice Department also is investigating the company's actions.
 No law specifically requires banks to know their customers, but money laundering -- concealing the source of funds obtained from illegal activity including drug sales -- is illegal. 
 Salinas is in prison, being tried for murder. 
 Citibank is now part of Citigroup (C) following its merger with Travelers.    

 



 






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Lucky Green 
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 14:41:01 +0800
To: John Gilmore 
Subject: Re: What was the quid pro quo for Wassenaar countries?
In-Reply-To: <199812050240.SAA24692@toad.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Fri, 4 Dec 1998, John Gilmore wrote:
 
> We will have to fight this one in the trenches, in each country.
> First step is to raise a hue and cry and put each government on the
> defensive (as they well ought to be).

Ultimately, It won't make a difference, but sure, why not. Crypto regs can
go one way, and one way only: more restrictive. See some 5 years of my
postings on this topic. Lobbying and litigation can only delay the arrival
of a total ban on general purpose strong crypto, not prevent it. Note that
I am not at all claiming that either lobbying or litigation is useless. By
all means, keep it up. It just won't change the fact that the ratchet
turns only into one direction. Until the ratchet breaks, but that is
another matter entirely and tends to be acompanied by lots of dead bodies.

>  Then let's find out what "deal"
> they made with the devil.

I doubt we will find out anytime soon. Favors? Blackmail? Most likely
all of the above. But it doesn't matter why the representative of
country A or B voted for export controls. We already know that most, if
not all, governments would fall all over themselves banning crypto
outright were they exposed to some of the traffic this list has seen over
the years.

What does surpise me, however, is why some people (not John) tend act
surprised when the ratchet tightens yet another notch. I can't help but
wonder if they are equally surprised when the sun goes up in the morning
or tide moves in. Weird.

-- Lucky Green  PGP v5 encrypted email preferred.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Lucky Green 
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 14:40:56 +0800
To: Michael Motyka 
Subject: Re: Streams, Voice, and Sensitive Dependence
In-Reply-To: <3668A32C.5954@lsil.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Fri, 4 Dec 1998, Michael Motyka wrote:

> 
> > http://www.starium.com
> > 14.4 modem, awsome sound quality, 2048 bit DH, 3DES.
> 
> The web site is pretty sparse. No wonder I couldn't find them before - I
> was looking for "Starion" a while back. I'll call them next week -
> they're practically local. What's the approximate price?

The company used to be called Comsec. http://www.comsec.com/ They've
expanded and are working on the next revision of the product. The old
version was $750 each. The new version will be a lot less expensive. When
you call, ask for Eric Blossom. (831) 333-9393  x12
 
> I have another question for you:
> 
> I thought I was a real whiz kid a few years back when I figured out that
> by using an agreed upon startup key then using a "random" public/private
> key pair generated by the SW, two voice stations could exchange a
> "random" session key. With thumbscrews and the rack you could not get
> the session key. Even the dreaded rubber hose would fail. The startup
> key protected the PK. The ultimate security was as good as the PK
> portion. The conversation was practically pre-shredded.
> 
> I was bummed when I discovered this had already been patented and was
> called EKE.
> 
> Does the Starium phone accomplish this effect?

Starium's current generation phone encryption device, the GSP8191,
performs a 2048 bit DH key exchange to establish a 3DES session key. Each
party then reads out half of the hash. If the hashes match, you know that
you are not subject to an MIM attack. The system has perfect forward
secrecy. Thumb screws will have no effect. :-)


-- Lucky Green  PGP v5 encrypted email preferred.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 21:29:28 +0800
To: cryptography@c2.net
Subject: Re: Netsurfer Digest: Vol. 04, #35
In-Reply-To: <199812050914.BAA23836@mail.zocalo.net>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 4:14 AM -0500 on 12/5/98, editor-bounce@netsurf.com wrote:


> Secret Netsurfing... for a Fee
>
> You meet such nice people in this job. People like Cyber Promotions, who
>believe the way to a great Web site is not content, originality, or
>design, but an "aggressive marketing campaign every week" - it sells spam.
>For a fee, Cyber Promotions will send out up to 50,000 messages at a time
>through untraceable remailers and silent servers. This delightful
>organization also bring us - as expected, for a fee - Ultimate Anonymity,
>under the guise of the old-style anonymity sites which campaigned to the
>death against censorship and government interference (remember Penet?).
>Anyone with $14 can use this site to post anonymously in newsgroups, send
>unlimited quantities of untraceable e-mail (with attachments), and
>generally pollute the bandwidth. There may be genuine privacy campaigners
>using the site, if they can squeeze in between all the amateur porn
>merchants.... 
>http://www.ultimate-anonymity.com/

-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Soren 
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 21:28:46 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: [Fwd: y2k/gary north delusions]
Message-ID: <36693EEC.7AA4A808@workmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

 

To: Igor Chudov 
Subject: Re: y2k/gary north delusions
From: Soren 
Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 08:29:23 -0500
References: <199812042341.RAA18742@manifold.algebra.com>

Igor Chudov @ home wrote:
> 
>  
> Well... The answer is that there is much less washing needed for
> survival than it is needed for day to day civilized American life.
> 
> For instance, I change my shirts every day. If shit hits the fan,
> you can wear a shirt for two weeks. Similar story is with other
> clothes.

This is a good one.  What about the other half of American life (the
uncivilized?). You know, the americans who live in those old
refrigerator cartons? The ones that nobody sees?  I think they get more
than 2 weeks out of their shirts.

The sad fact is that city brats haven't got the faintest idea what
survival is all about  (you mean I have to *walk* to the supermarket?).
It was in the 1890's when Queen Victoria issued an edict that forced all
the english to 'bathe at least once a year'.

Sit back and enjoy the carnival.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michal Hohensee 
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 22:12:42 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: y2k/gary north delusions
In-Reply-To: <199812050047.SAA19462@manifold.algebra.com>
Message-ID: <36694C23.B4CB9509@nyu.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Igor Chudov @ home wrote:
> 
> Michal Hohensee wrote:
> >
> >
> > Igor Chudov @ home wrote:
> > >
> > > Petro wrote:
> > > >       Ok, so let's cut that back to what we _need_. First off, we don't
> > > > dump our dish water down the drain, it gets "recycled" to flush the
> > > > toilets.
> > >
> > > get them to shit outside.
> > >
> >
> > Bad bad bad bad bad bad *bad* idea.  This might be ok in the Russian
> > countryside, or any other countryside, but it an *excessively* bad thing
> > in just about any modern city.  If running water fails to run in the
> > cities, and people do as you suggest, and take their business outside,
> > it will not be long before tremendous numbers of people get sick and
> > die.  What with the high concentrations that people live in in most
> > cities, I expect that this'd make the Black Death look like a mild case
> > of the flu.
> 
> Like I said, someone would need to build a latrine. That's all that's
> needed.
> 

Latrines aren't sufficient to the task.  In a city like NYC, latrines
might solve the problem for perhaps a week (assuming that we tear up all
the roads and sidewalks --something which we cannot do in time, even if
we wanted to), but then they'll be full, and there won't be any more
places the latrines can be rotated to.

Then we're back to doing it in the open.  Less concentrated cities might
last a while longer, but not much longer.  There's no getting around it,
we *need* working sewer systems to have modern cities.  Otherwise, the
cities die.

Michael Hohensee




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 00:22:35 +0800
To: Michal Hohensee 
Subject: Re: y2k/gary north delusions
In-Reply-To: <36694C23.B4CB9509@nyu.edu>
Message-ID: <199812051511.KAA001.50@whgiii>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



In <36694C23.B4CB9509@nyu.edu>, on 12/05/98 
   at 10:07 AM, Michal Hohensee  said:

>Then we're back to doing it in the open.  Less concentrated cities might
>last a while longer, but not much longer.  There's no getting around it,
>we *need* working sewer systems to have modern cities.  Otherwise, the
>cities die.

And you say this as if it is a bad thing.

-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
---------------------------------------------------------------





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 01:08:23 +0800
To: mah248@nyu.edu (Michal Hohensee)
Subject: Re: y2k/gary north delusions
In-Reply-To: <36694C23.B4CB9509@nyu.edu>
Message-ID: <199812051640.KAA04447@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Michal Hohensee wrote:
> Igor Chudov @ home wrote:
> > Michal Hohensee wrote:
> > > Igor Chudov @ home wrote:
> > > > Petro wrote:
> > > > >       Ok, so let's cut that back to what we _need_. First off, we don't
> > > > > dump our dish water down the drain, it gets "recycled" to flush the
> > > > > toilets.
> > > >
> > > > get them to shit outside.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Bad bad bad bad bad bad *bad* idea.  This might be ok in the Russian
> > > countryside, or any other countryside, but it an *excessively* bad thing
> > > in just about any modern city.  If running water fails to run in the
> > > cities, and people do as you suggest, and take their business outside,
> > > it will not be long before tremendous numbers of people get sick and
> > > die.  What with the high concentrations that people live in in most
> > > cities, I expect that this'd make the Black Death look like a mild case
> > > of the flu.
> > 
> > Like I said, someone would need to build a latrine. That's all that's
> > needed.
> > 
> 
> Latrines aren't sufficient to the task.  In a city like NYC, latrines
> might solve the problem for perhaps a week (assuming that we tear up all
> the roads and sidewalks --something which we cannot do in time, even if
> we wanted to), but then they'll be full, and there won't be any more
> places the latrines can be rotated to.

Why, shit is actually pretty compact. usually with latrines, the liquid
filtrates out, and the compressed shit does not take too much space.

If you dig a deep enough hole (2-3 yards) it should last for a long,
long time. I estimate that a human being produces about 1/2 to 1lb
of hard waste per day, some are more full of it, some less. Let's settle
on one lb per day.

Let's see, a hole that is 5 yards wide, 3 yards deep, and, say, 2 yards
wide, is about 30 cubic yards. It could take about 40 tons of hard
compressed waste, that is, 80 thousand man-days of shitting can be
compressed in it.

You definitely need some heavy machinery to dig this kind of hole
(and then you have to build smoe kind of frame over it to prevent people
from falling into it if it collapses), but it is not hard and can even
be done in a catastrophic scenario.

That's a lot!!! Let's see,a high rise building with 50 floors and 10
apartments in each floor, that's about 1200 people. The latrine would
last them what, about sixty days! And then they can dig another one.

> Then we're back to doing it in the open.  Less concentrated cities might
> last a while longer, but not much longer.  There's no getting around it,
> we *need* working sewer systems to have modern cities.  Otherwise, the
> cities die.

Not in the short run. They could survive for a while.

	- Igor.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 00:31:18 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: Re: y2k/gary north delusions
In-Reply-To: <199812050047.SAA19462@manifold.algebra.com>
Message-ID: <199812051605.LAA01045@camel14.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



The Hudson River on the west side of Manhattan reportedly
has twelve feet of shit on its bottom, and a permit from the US
Corp of Engineers is needed to disturb it for pier construction
and repair -- and to extend the island for yet another criminal
expansion for the public good: next up is another hotshit
Guggenheim satellite museum by Frank Gehry to match his 
Balboa big holer.

Many sewage lines of the West Side still dump raw sewage
into the river while plans for new sewer systems languish for
lack of funding -- the most recent plant on the Hudson cost in 
excess of $1 billion, has a park on top, is an architectural award
winner, and still stinks like Madonna in church. Though less 
than the surrounding nabes from which the gagging aliens
flee to the shit plant deck which is a 100 feet above the
river and offers Titanic like panoramas, that is, far enough above
the river that the night's floaters/skin-bros are overlookable.

Tis true that rivers and oceans are prosperity's sewage treatment
system, as ever, the best recycling system ever confected by nature 
to handle the effluvia of progress, for refreshing water, air and 
importing cheap-labor illegals (now how to stop them fucking
for recreation, their brats siphoning our hard-stole American birthright 
to profit by the globe's suffering, hurray we got Ks of Terrorist Nukes).

Still, environmental terrorism is booming. Cleanup of the National
Security Apparatus will take decades and $ trillions. Health damage
remediation will take many times that. Shit in streets is a puny task in
comparison to those, not even worth planning for -- well, dog shit
is a big headache in Guiliani's disorderly mind.

Yes, NYC as with other large cities are dumps for the rest of the
country. Yes, going to the country makes me gag -- pity the poor 
rubes, how can they bear the lack of civilized rot and stench.
Oh well, it's TCM's evolution in action: only shit-innoculated mutants 
will inhale the sublime Y2K halitosis of the programmers of built-in
breakdown, vainglorious national planners.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Soren 
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 23:25:41 +0800
To: cyphers 
Subject: Re: y2k/gary north delusions
In-Reply-To: <199812050047.SAA19462@manifold.algebra.com>
Message-ID: <366958DF.FBF816FC@workmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Michal Hohensee wrote:
> 
> 
> Latrines aren't sufficient to the task.  In a city like NYC, latrines
> might solve the problem for perhaps a week (assuming that we tear up all
> the roads and sidewalks --something which we cannot do in time, even if
> we wanted to), but then they'll be full, and there won't be any more
> places the latrines can be rotated to.


One obvious advantage to living in the penthouse of a highrise.  Of
course, the elevators may not be working. The elevator shaft may make an
effective latrine though.

City people may be up to their eyeballs in sh*t.  This requires the
availability of raw materiel to produce however, which is predicated on
gas pumps working to fuel transportation of foodstuffs into the hive.  I
suppose horses could make a come-back, but then we're back to piles of
sh*t again.

Current waste disposal conventions such as sewers and trash removal
don't actually magically make this stuff disappear.  In NYC it all ends
up in the Atlantic latrine, where it gets picked up by the gulf stream
and ends up being deposited on Florida beaches after a long sea journey.
There are so many plastic bags bearing logos in the sargasso sea, it
looks like it has been sold off to corporate interests for advertizing
purposes.

I went out fishing in this vicinity a few weeks ago and caught 3 sea
birds (released alive) and only one fish.  On thinking it over, it was
obvious why we caught the birds -- there aren't any fish to catch, so
the birds were hungry enough to go for a lure. Colloform counts in the
mid-Atlantic approach that of an unwashed WC.

Its no better on the other coast, in San Francisco there is an annual
paragraph in the Chron, usually buried near the last page, about (yet)
another *accidental* release of 12 million gallons of raw untreated
sewage, into the bay.  Funny how these accidents happen in december
every year.  We really are the society that believes in *out of sight,
out of mind* solutions.

There is an opportunity in this I suppose,  corner the market on
chemical toilets and reverse osmosis water makers in a big city next
year, and you're laughing. Of course your exit strategy should take into
account the possibility of being taken over in the *public good*.

Hong Kong has a good system for dealing with the flush problem.  When
the sewer system was put in (Japanese occupied, WWII period), all
buildings were double plumbed with fresh water for drinking, cooking and
washing, and sea water for flushing.  With the way most city water
tastes now, maybe the existing plumbing could be turned over to
non-potable water distribution for washing + flushing.  Distribution of
drinking water would be as it is in LA today.

That's the fun part, figuring out how it could all be made to work.

Unfortunately it's more likely that the sheeple will cry out for guvmint
intervention to continue the flow of goodies, to which the western world
has become addicted.

IMHO, the military will be brought in to dig the latrines. Hoarders will
be strung up for not redistributing their wealth in approved socialist
style. Rewards will be posted for informing on a neighbor who is (may
be) a hoarder (5% of the take?). Gas will be reclassified as a public
resource for the duration of the emergency. The military will bring in
the K rations, until it becomes obvious that relocating the
citizen-units to resettlement camps on the outskirts is easier to
manage.  Those who control the sources of food production will also be
drafted into this new(er) deal. Anyone left over from this
redistribution, will be classified as a public enemy and fair game.

This is the perfect opportunity for the state to offer more security in
exchange for reduced liberty.

Was it on this list that I saw the posting about the 300 trucks of army
rations a day being stashed in some Oklahoma(?) caves?




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vivek Vaidya" 
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 04:00:05 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: RE: What was the quid pro quo for Wassenaar countries?
Message-ID: <19981205193720.25762.qmail@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




>John Gilmore may be right, but remember folks that in Europe we have 
>this thing the Greeks invented called democracy. One of the ideas of 
>democracy is that decisions are not made in secret closed meetings.
Would you really call the EU protocols a democracy? rule by the 
unelected technocrats?  And Europes history of not making decisions in 
secret closed meetings is hardly commendable.  Excepting perhaps the 
swiss.

>The interpretation of the US ambassador appears to be based on the
>assumption that the governmental proceedures of democratic countries 
>are like those of his home country. In fact European governments 
>cannot make law simply by telling the national police force to >arrest 
folk who engage in particular behaviour.
Now my understanding of european law is, of course, limited.  But in 
France wasn't there that case of some rapper been arrested for insulting 
the police?  And in Germany you can strip the constitutional rights of 
citizens who engage in treasonous behaviour ( could this include 
cryptography? if connected with neo-nazis almost certainly right? )

>The system of checks and balances may be described in the US 
>constitution but it is entrenched in the European polity. The UK >does 
not have a national police force precisely to stop Hooverism.
>
>Even directives of the European Commission do not have legal force 
>until the national parliaments enact legislation to implement the 
>directive.
What about those airline accords where the EU took its member states to 
court over cabotage agreements.  I'm sure there are ways to sneak these 
things through.

>One should also remember that the government of the Netherlands has 
agreed
>to control the sale and use of narcotics. If their efforts to control
>cryptography are as dilligent we have nothing to worry about.
>
>In addition under the single European act the entire country of Europe 
is
>one export zone for crypto control purposes. I fail to see that 
stopping
>Brits from exporting crypto to the US changes the equation a great 
deal.
>
>
>There once was an English king called Canute who attempted to 
demonstrate
>to his courtiers that he was fallible and could not order the tide to
>turn. Perhaps Clinton's courtiers need to learn that they suffer the 
same
>limmitation.

I'm afraid that that may not be the point.  The primary objective of the 
arms control laws ( which are the ones being used as references in this 
case ) is to prevent advanced weapons technology from spreading to the 
third world.  Now Europe, America, Japan, and other first world 
countries are all capable of developing high level crypto indiginously.  
The less advanced countries on the earth are forced to import it from 
these countries.  What the passage of this law will do is prevent this 
export ( example:  the Netherlands, as you pointed out has not cracked 
down on its internal narcotics trade.  However it doesn't permit 
exporting narcotics.  Similarly this agreement will probably freeze 
exports of high level crypto by all the signatory countries, in the same 
way that america no longer permits high level crypto exports. )
The end result being the NSA should able to read India and Chinas 
communications without irritations.  

Vivek Vaidya


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Max Inux 
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 03:19:51 +0800
To: HyperReal-Anon 
Subject: Re: pgp disk
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On 5 Dec 1998, HyperReal-Anon wrote:
>>>If the source code isn't available, don't trust it. That's a good general
>>>rule.
I dont believe he is saying source is not available because it is.  In
book form, currently getting scanned in europe somehwere where the
Wersaanar(i dont care i misspelt it) was not signed

>>Where is the source for pgpfone?

Try pgpi.com, i believe if anyone has it they would.. maybe mit
>
>Good question. That's why I wouldn't use it either. (I haven't had reason to
>use it, so 'll take Anonymous's word that source isn't available.)
See above, however, Scram disk has been around more, and it's source
is available

>If people want to release software like this, they need a better argument
>for its security than "Trust us, it's secure." 

Agreed, thats why in PGP's case source is released.

>Considering that there is no net loss when developers of such a product
>release source code so that people can look it over and compile it
>themselves, I don't have any reason to trust such software.

Actually in theory there is, people can steal code, use progs without
paying etcetera. (the latter is available through "juarez" though)

>Aren't McAfee and PGP Inc. members of KRAP and promoting Big Brother Inside?
>I've lost track.

McAfee does not exist, neither does PGP Inc, in a merger of those two and
Network General, they formed Network Associates.  Later NetAss purchased
TIS, for their firewall mind you, and they were members of KRAP .  so NAI
was officially brough in.

Max
--   Max Inux   Hey Christy!!! New Keys per-request
       If crypto is outlawed only outlaws will have crypto






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Eric Cordian 
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 02:33:17 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Aharonov-Bohm Effect
Message-ID: <199812051815.MAA28244@wire.insync.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Could someone (other than Jim Choate) explain the mechanism behind the
Aharonov-Bohm effect, where a quantum field propagating via two distinct
paths finds its wavefunction phase shifted by the amount of magnetic flux
enclosed, even if it is completely shielded from the magnetic field, and
traverses only regions of space where B=0.

This has apparently been experimentally verified, and is a leading
candidate for reading the state of quantum dots.  

-- 
Sponsor the DES Analytic Crack Project
http://www.cyberspace.org/~enoch/crakfaq.html





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 06:04:29 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: RE: What was the quid pro quo for Wassenaar countries?
Message-ID: <5F152E6E8E6FD21195DF00104B2425AD02B31A@yarrowbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





> The end result being the NSA should able to read India and Chinas 
> communications without irritations.  

You think India won't be able to develop strong encryption indigenously?!
You obviously haven't been keeping up with the times. One word...Bangalore.

Despite the export rhetoric, the real and intended affect it to prevent
widespread *domestic* use. By making the market much smaller (domestic)
only, creating FUD, there are less crypto suppliers and much higher costs.

	Matt




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 04:17:10 +0800
To: Max Inux 
Subject: Re: pgp disk
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199812051907.OAA001.57@whgiii>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



In , on
12/05/98 
   at 11:59 AM, Max Inux  said:

>>>Where is the source for pgpfone?

>Try pgpi.com, i believe if anyone has it they would.. maybe mit

AFAIK the source for PGPfone has never been released. I had wanted to do a
port to the OS/2 platform but was never able to get the source code for
it.

Nautilas has source available but I do not know what platforms it has been
ported to.

-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
---------------------------------------------------------------





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 03:49:28 +0800
To: Soren 
Subject: Re: y2k/gary north delusions
In-Reply-To: <199812050047.SAA19462@manifold.algebra.com>
Message-ID: <199812051926.LAA10339@smtp.well.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 11:01 AM 12-5-98 -0500, Soren wrote:
>City people may be up to their eyeballs in sh*t.  This requires the
>availability of raw materiel to produce however, which is predicated on
>gas pumps working to fuel transportation of foodstuffs into the hive.  I
>suppose horses could make a come-back, but then we're back to piles of
[y2k latrine analysis snipped]

I note for the record that this latest thread represents a serious and
probably departure in tone from cypherpunkly nose-in-the-air dismissals of
Y2K problems as recently as 6 or 7 months ago.

-Declan






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 04:57:53 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: (eternity) democracy is a bad idea on the net too! (fwd)
Message-ID: <199812052047.OAA31186@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 20:26:51 GMT
> From: Adam Back 
> Subject: (eternity) democracy is a bad idea on the net too!

> Markus Kuhn wrote:
> > The main research aspect of this project is the joint administration of
> > such distributed archives. For spam protection, you still need people
> > who decide, which files are allowed on the distributed server
> > infrastructure, and which are not. 
> 
> I think a better deciding factor of which files remain and which don't
> is hard, anonymous ecash.  Allow the author, or server to charge for
> storage, and charge for access.  Allow readers to contribute ecash to
> the continued existance of a data.  Throw the lot together and let
> profit maximisation sort the rest out.

There is some window for abuse in this method. It allows a well endowed
entity to bias the information available. There is also the question of data
degredation, in the sense of worth, over time versus the archival/historical
worth of the data. Two major negatives to a free-market approach that are
never discussed.


    ____________________________________________________________________

           If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me
           in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation,
           it is: bullying
 
                                                Howard Zinn


       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Wei Dai 
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 07:24:18 +0800
To: Ryan Lackey 
Message-ID: <19981205150002.B18744@eskimo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Sat, Dec 05, 1998 at 04:48:42PM -0400, Ryan Lackey wrote:
> When I was working on Eternity DDS stuff, I basically came to the same
> conclusion as Adam -- without anonymous bearer cash, you can't do
> a workable eternity implementation.

I'm not familiar with the latest eternity designs, but I wonder if they
could be extended to provide a global time ordering between the published
documents? If so perhaps the eternity service can be used to implement
b-money (see http://www.eskimo.com/~weidai/bmoney.txt) and the
chicken and egg problem would be solved at once.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: HyperReal-Anon 
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 22:49:55 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: What was the quid pro quo for Wassenaar countries?
Message-ID: <0dea998db811e35a157aa07c3d640710@anonymous>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



"Phillip Hallam-Baker"  writes

   John Gilmore may be right, but remember folks that in Europe we
   have this thing the Greeks invented called democracy. One of the
   ideas of democracy is that decisions are not made in secret closed
   meetings.

Yes, and people democratically demand government enforcement of the
majority will, something made more difficult if the subjects have
strong cryptography.

As Donn Parker observed several years ago, strong cryptography is
inconsistent with democracy.  (Published in Scientific American ---
reference on request.)

John Gilmore  writes

   Some countries actually seem to care what their citizens think
   about their crypto laws, unlike the shining example of democracy,
   the USSA.  And when we educate the citizens, they tend to make the
   right choices.  Let's keep trying.

But don't educate them too much, or they will understand that
cryptography can set people free, and if people were free there would
be no political government, and if there were no political government
their social security checks would stop coming, along with all their
other government ``benefits''.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Lucky Green 
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 00:00:41 +0800
To: Tim May 
Subject: Re: What was the quid pro quo for Wassenaar countries?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Fri, 4 Dec 1998, Tim May wrote:

 
> On another topic, what of the "free export of crypto" nations? Some
> nations, or folks in some nations, like to talk about how they are actually
> "more free" than Americans are because they can export strong crypto.
> Canada comes to mind, as there are a couple of companies we know about
> using the ostensibly weaker Canadian export controls.
> 
> (I maintain, and Lucky can be my witness that I expressed this forcefully
> to some Canadian entrepreneurs very recently, that Canada's relative
> laxness on crypto arises first, from their ignorance of the issues and
> second, from the fact that Washington hasn't yet told them how high to
> jump. I have long believed the U.S. would issue the orders and other
> countries would turn out to be just as restrictive, if not more
> restrictive, as they have fewer in-country protections against restrictions
> on strong crypto. If Canada, Finland, etc. tighten up, can Anguilla be far
> behind?)

I believe that there will be free havens for crypto for some time to come.
Crypto is too obscure a topic to be outlawed worldwide anytime soon. So
the Canadian entrepreneurs Tim is referring to and others determined to
ship crypto will be able to do so for many, many years by simply
relocating development to other countries.

Just as there are small countries that don't play ball with FINCEN, there
will be small countries that don't play ball with crypto regs and be that
because that's the countries only significant source of hard cash.

-- Lucky Green  PGP v5 encrypted email preferred.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ryan Lackey 
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 05:12:07 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: eternity using politics rather than economics
Message-ID: <19981205164842.B25348@arianrhod.@>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



When I was working on Eternity DDS stuff, I basically came to the same
conclusion as Adam -- without anonymous bearer cash, you can't do
a workable eternity implementation.

It's an open question whether you could issue bearer cash backed in
Eternity-units.  That was my original plan, but it seems you would still
want to have gold-units to trade for Eternity units.  The problems of
guaranteeing quality of service in exchange for Eternity units are
complicated but tractable, but having a separate scheme for auditing
performance.

Where I think "political" schemes would be particularly beneficial is 
in sharing administrative control over a virtual corporation, etc.  While
those who believe Coase would believe corporations will devolve into 
individuals or even autonomous agents, it might be a worthwhile tool
during the transition.

As far as I can tell, having a good Eternity implementation is still
blocked on getting a reasonable electronic cash system.  There are
some people in Anguilla...




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: sinster@darkwater.com
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 09:30:32 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: What was the quid pro quo for Wassenaar countries?
In-Reply-To: <199812050240.SAA24692@toad.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Sprach John Gilmore :
> 	*  And what did NSA offer, to convince many countries to
> 	   directly contradict policies that they had arrived at
> 	   during year-long public consultations with their own citizens?

Call me hopelessly paranoid, but I'm betting that none or nearly none
of the governments in the world want unrestricted crypto.  Hell, I'm
betting that none of the governments in the world are particularly
happy that crypto expertise exists outside of secretive government
research projects and intelligence agencies.  If they could go back to
the secret government-only crypto environment from before and during
WWII, they'd be ecstatic.  Public crypto expertise makes it hard for
governments to keep secrets from each other and their people, it makes
it (relatively) easy for the public to keep secrets from their
government, and in general makes governments REALLY nervous.

Sure, they talked with their people and the people were clear that
_they_ wanted unrestricted crypto.  And so the governments (those few
who actually pay attention to their public) made statements and passed
laws in support of unrestricted crypto... but their arms were being
twisted the whole time, and they were Displeased(tm).

If my statements have any bearing in reality, then it wouldn't take
very much lobbying at all on the NSA's part to convince the wassenaar
countries to change the agreement to restrict or totally ban crypto.
This lets the various governments go back to their people and claim
that they don't have any choice: wassenaar forces them to restrict
crypto... sorry.  The fact that most (almost certainly all) countries
don't act on treaties until (and if) they have passed implementing
legislation is completely lost on the people.  After all, a treaty is
a treaty, right?  It's like a contract between two people, except it's
between countries, right?  So they've agreed: why do we need laws to
implement it?  [I know those last three statements are false, but they
accurately represent the attitudes of all the people with whom I've
discussed the issue of treaty implementation.]

More and more, I see that treaties are no longer tools to create
agreement among governments, but are tools to allow governments to
sidestep the political costs associated with acting against their own
people's express desires.  For a very long time now, it has _appeared_
that European and North American governments agree with each other far
more readily than they agree with their own people.

-- 
Jon Paul Nollmann ne' Darren Senn                      sinster@balltech.net
Unsolicited commercial email will be archived at $1/byte/day.
Dis.Org's propensity for casual violence is little different from that of
any street gang.                                             Carolyn Meinel




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Steve Schear 
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 12:52:59 +0800
To: Lucky Green 
Subject: Re: Streams, Voice, and Sensitive Dependence
In-Reply-To: <3668A32C.5954@lsil.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>On Fri, 4 Dec 1998, Michael Motyka wrote:
>
>>
>> > http://www.starium.com
>> > 14.4 modem, awsome sound quality, 2048 bit DH, 3DES.
>>
>> The web site is pretty sparse. No wonder I couldn't find them before - I
>> was looking for "Starion" a while back. I'll call them next week -
>> they're practically local. What's the approximate price?
>
>The company used to be called Comsec. http://www.comsec.com/ They've
>expanded and are working on the next revision of the product. The old
>version was $750 each. The new version will be a lot less expensive. When
>you call, ask for Eric Blossom. (831) 333-9393  x12

While I was explaining the GSP8191's features to an engineer a few weeks
back he ask whether anyone had thought of how to do secure conferencing via
analog technology. I've never seen such a device. I wonder if such a thing
is practical given the limitations of modem protocols. Certainly one could
use a specialized digital device to join the clear analog channels, but
then you have to all trust this device and that's not been compromised
(anothre MITM).

--Steve






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 07:20:09 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: DoJ investigates CIA [CNN]
Message-ID: <199812052311.RAA31637@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> X-within-URL: http://www.cnn.com/US/9812/05/cia.hughes.ap/

>           JUSTICE INVESTIGATING CIA FOR POSSIBLE CRIMINAL VIOLATIONS
>                                        
>    CIA Graphic December 5, 1998
>    Web posted at: 1:38 p.m. EST (1838 GMT)
>    
>    WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Justice Department is conducting an
>    obstruction-of-justice investigation of CIA officials who passed along
>    to a satellite contractor sensitive information about a Senate
>    investigation into technology transfers to China.
>    
>    Government officials reached late Friday said the criminal
>    investigation centers on information passed by the intelligence agency
>    to Hughes Electronics Corp., maker of both commercial and spy
>    satellite systems.
>    
>    At issue is whether that information compromised a Senate Intelligence
>    Committee investigation into allegations that Hughes and other U.S.
>    companies violated federal export laws by sharing restricted
>    technology with China as part of commercial satellite export deals.

[text deleted]


    ____________________________________________________________________

           If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me
           in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation,
           it is: bullying
 
                                                Howard Zinn


       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 07:39:10 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: the shit hitting the fan (fwd)
Message-ID: <199812052331.RAA31810@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 18:13:03 -0500 (EST)
> From: Rabid Wombat 
> Subject: Re: the shit hitting the fan (fwd)

> It's during times like these that you learn more about your fellow 
> c'punks than you need to ...

> On Fri, 4 Dec 1998, Jim Choate wrote:
> 
> > Forwarded message:

> > I've gone on long duration camping trips of about a weeks length and the
> > storing and portage costs are not excessive (having a boat or horse helps
> > move it around).

It's not my choice, it's the law (for many national and state parks). You've
got to pach your pets if you take them along as well.


    ____________________________________________________________________

           If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me
           in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation,
           it is: bullying
 
                                                Howard Zinn


       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Rabid Wombat 
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 07:24:23 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: the shit hitting the fan (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199812050515.XAA28089@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



It's during times like these that you learn more about your fellow 
c'punks than you need to ...


On Fri, 4 Dec 1998, Jim Choate wrote:

> Forwarded message:
> 
> > Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 06:00:13 +0100
> > From: Anonymous 
> > Subject: the shit hitting the fan
> 
> > At 02:48 PM 12/4/98 -0600, Igor Chudov @ home wrote:
> > >Even flushing toilets is not necessary as anyone can shit outside.
> > >
> > >I am speaking out of personal experiences, living with water outages
> > >while we were in the Russian countryside. It was no big deal, period.
> > 
> > Moron.  At a low population density you can do anything, burn wood, leaded
> > gas,
> > etc., no problem.
> > 
> > LA has 1e7 people who shit about a kilo per day.  Compute the volume of that
> > after a week.
> 
> It's not the raw volume that's critical but rather the percentage of the
> average personal space per inhabitant versus how much to store a weeks
> worth. For the average person storing a weeks worth of solid waste in a
> platic bag with bleach, lye, or similar material is reasonable.
> 
> I've gone on long duration camping trips of about a weeks length and the
> storing and portage costs are not excessive (having a boat or horse helps
> move it around).
> 
> 
>     ____________________________________________________________________
>  
>              Technology cannot make us other than what we are.
> 
>                                            James P. Hogan
> 
>        The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
>        Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
>        www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
>                            -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
>     --------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 08:35:07 +0800
To: cypherpunks@manifold.algebra.com
Subject: explanation of public key cryptography
Message-ID: <199812060014.SAA02652@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



My friend needs a website with explanations of PK cryptography
and related interesting protocols. I have Schneier's book but she
lives far from me and the book is too long for her to read.

Any suggestions for something on the Web?

thanks

igor




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 01:56:17 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: ..
Message-ID: <199812051730.SAA20180@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> > (Furthermore, most remailer structures still can't erase some other security
> > concerns --
> >   1: remailers acutally can be hacked or physically compromised
> >   2: clients really can be screwed
> >   3: etc.
> > 
> > To help solve the first, you'd want a two-box setup doing remailing, with the
> > security-critical stuff loaded on a box not directly connected to the Net with
> > something 140-1ish to make tampering harder, a secure OS, etc. -- or, of
> > course, you can scrap all that to get really big remailer count.
> 
> As long as you do not see the box and do not control its manufacture,
> I see no reason why you should have ny more trust in it.

Well, you shouldn't have complete trust -- a tamper-resistant net could be
compromised, too -- but there's a good reason to have more trust in it than in
the existing one. More on that after a parenthetical remark.

(This brings up the "hardware web-of-trust" issue; you can set up such a web
with trusted spot-checkers and statistical/cryptographic means of assuring the
user that the box works as advertised, if your threat model demands it.  
There's more about it in the "Beyond Class (A1)" section of the Orange Book,
although the section's use to Cypherpunk types is limited because it's written
without any thought to, say, doing things cheaply or having a decentralized
setup.)

The tamper-resistance simply means that if the mailer was set up secure, it's
not going to become compromised. Instead of having to trust that one of the
remailer operators is currently honest and has always done all the necessary
homework to ensure the system was safe, you have to trust that this entity was
honest and diligent when the remailer was set up (unless, of course, you think
the tamper-resistance was circumvented); if the operator is bribed after the
remailer's set up and the public key is published, there's no way to suddenly
and invisibly make messages traceable, as there is in a "normal" Mixmaster
remailer.

(This is because, given the normal assumptions about crypto strength, it takes
the remailer's private key to process a Mixmaster-like packet and that key is
generated by and stays within the tamper-resistant box)

My predictions about the biggest attacks on a tamper-resistant remailer net:
  1: traffic analysis. Until the net structure is overhauled, this will always
     be possible.
  2: propagation and exploitation of faulty server software. Related to the
     whole web-of-trust issue.
  3: direct attacks on specific clients. Again, no web of trust.
  4: creation of bad remailers and attempts to shut down good ones. More
     messages could be traced in a world with 6 good and 47 bad remailers than
     in one with 9 good and 3 bad.
  5: direct attacks on new remailers
  6: attempts to make an operator feign a catastrophe and set up a new,
     compromised remailer. Users, however, would know that the new key not 
     signed by an old one means that they must now trust that the remailer was
     not compromised before the publication of the new key.
  7: attacks on tamper resistance
...
  n: attacks on crypto
n+1: etc.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 10:13:16 +0800
To: ukcrypto@maillist.ox.ac.uk
Subject: a strategy
Message-ID: <3669E17D.14FF@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

I just read the most recent AFTER MONTHS of nothing happening.

http://jya.com/a6e.htm

Love it.

Can you possibly get suspected terrorists on your landlord's case?



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: HyperReal-Anon 
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 02:32:35 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: pgp disk
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>At 03:05 AM 12/5/98 +0100, Anonymous wrote about some new product:
>>If the source code isn't available, don't trust it. That's a good general
>>rule.
>
>
>Where is the source for pgpfone?

Good question. That's why I wouldn't use it either. (I haven't had reason to
use it, so 'll take Anonymous's word that source isn't available.)

If people want to release software like this, they need a better argument
for its security than "Trust us, it's secure." 

Considering that there is no net loss when developers of such a product
release source code so that people can look it over and compile it
themselves, I don't have any reason to trust such software.

Aren't McAfee and PGP Inc. members of KRAP and promoting Big Brother Inside?
I've lost track.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 03:55:11 +0800
To: eternity@internexus.net
Subject: (fwd) Markus Kuhn on eternity
Message-ID: <199812051932.TAA12539@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Markus Kuhn (on ukcrypto) discussing his PhD project: the design of an
eternity file system with a distributed administration function system
controlled via a cryptographically enforced digital constitution.

Comments to follow.

Adam

======================================================================
To: ukcrypto@maillist.ox.ac.uk
Subject: Re: intangible definitions are hard to pin down 
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 16:28:21 +0000
From: Markus Kuhn 

Ben Laurie wrote on 1998-11-19 12:22 UTC:
> Ross Anderson wrote:
> > It will get worse. One of my students is developing a file system that
> > can be spread over a WAN, so that for example you can force all file
> > modifications in directory foo to be backed up automatially using a
> > kind of RCS at a server in America. Useful stuff - real businesses are
> > much more interested in backup and disaster recovery than they are in
> > crypto (and spend a couple of orders of magnitude more money). But how
> > does this sort of system interact with export control?
> 
> Cool - is this going to be open source?

Of course.

> Presumably, even though, as you
> say, businesses are less interested in crypto, it will, nevertheless,
> use crypto for data protection and user authentication?

Of course.

The main research aspect of this project is the joint administration of
such distributed archives. For spam protection, you still need people
who decide, which files are allowed on the distributed server
infrastructure, and which are not. This administration is so far the
weak link in the Eternity Service concept, because whoever decides that
something is not spam takes over some responsibility for the content,
and is therefore subject to legal power of national powers.

The distributed administration in my system will be controlled via a
sort of cryptographically enforced digital constitution (written in a
tiny special purpose functional programming language) that determines
administrative rights in a freely configurable way for a distributed
server architecture (allowing elections, votes, vetoes, impeachment,
updates to the constitution, etc.). This way, no single person will be
responsible for the maintenance of such international software
repositories, but a (usually international) group of democratically
controlled volunteers does this. This way, US people can easily
contribute to the administration of such distributed archives without
having to share any legal responsibility for the fact that the archive
also contains export controlled software, because the majority of
administrators and not some single citizen alone has decided which files
are allowed to use server space.

The goal of this project is of course not primarily to by-pass export
controls. It will hopefully advance the state-of-the-art of how we use
the Internet to distribute information to a point where classical export
control laws and national control of Internet content in general are led
completely ad absurdum, without enabling at the same time the wide
distribution and robust long-term storage of commonly considered
despicable material such as child pornography, instructions for building
weapons of mass destruction, or unwanted commercial advertising. In
fact, by providing easy to configure governmental mechanisms comparable
to those national governments are based on for software repositories, we
distribute the responsibility in a cryptographically enforced way over
the thousands or millions of users of such archives, effectively
bypassing any control of national governments, without the negative
aspects of complete anarchy (spam).

To avoid misunderstandings: the ultimate idea is not to just by-pass
national laws, but to offer a productive and democratic alternative
technical means for controlling online resources, because the classical
options of either national legislation and complete anarchy both have
serious problems.

Markus
(Ross' student, who tries to get a PhD for developing a theoretical
foundation and practical implementation of global-scale jointly
administrated file spaces)

-- 
Markus G. Kuhn, Computer Laboratory, University of Cambridge, UK
Email: mkuhn at acm.org,  WWW: 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 03:55:55 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Wei Dei's "b-money" protocol
Message-ID: <199812051937.TAA12780@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Wei Dei recently announced (on cypherpunks) his "b-money, a new
protocol for monetary exchange and contract enforcement for
pseudonyms".

Below is the text of his proposal.

Comments to follow.

Adam

======================================================================
http://www.eskimo.com/~weidai/bmoney.txt
======================================================================

I am fascinated by Tim May's crypto-anarchy. Unlike the communities
traditionally associated with the word "anarchy", in a crypto-anarchy the
government is not temporarily destroyed but permanently forbidden and
permanently unnecessary. It's a community where the threat of violence is
impotent because violence is impossible, and violence is impossible
because its participants cannot be linked to their true names or physical
locations.

Until now it's not clear, even theoretically, how such a community could
operate. A community is defined by the cooperation of its participants,
and efficient cooperation requires a medium of exchange (money) and a way
to enforce contracts. Traditionally these services have been provided by
the government or government sponsored institutions and only to legal
entities. In this article I describe a protocol by which these services
can be provided to and by untraceable entities.

I will actually describe two protocols. The first one is impractical,
because it makes heavy use of a synchronous and unjammable anonymous
broadcast channel. However it will motivate the second, more practical
protocol. In both cases I will assume the existence of an untraceable
network, where senders and receivers are identified only by digital
pseudonyms (i.e. public keys) and every messages is signed by its sender
and encrypted to its receiver.

In the first protocol, every participant maintains a (seperate) database
of how much money belongs to each pseudonym. These accounts collectively
define the ownership of money, and how these accounts are updated is the
subject of this protocol.

1. The creation of money. Anyone can create money by broadcasting the
solution to a previously unsolved computational problem. The only
conditions are that it must be easy to determine how much computing effort
it took to solve the problem and the solution must otherwise have no
value, either practical or intellectual. The number of monetary units
created is equal to the cost of the computing effort in terms of a
standard basket of commodities. For example if a problem takes 100 hours
to solve on the computer that solves it most economically, and it takes 3
standard baskets to purchase 100 hours of computing time on that computer
on the open market, then upon the broadcast of the solution to that
problem everyone credits the broadcaster's account by 3 units.

2. The transfer of money. If Alice (owner of pseudonym K_A) wishes to
transfer X units of money to Bob (owner of pseudonym K_B), she broadcasts
the message "I give X units of money to K_B" signed by K_A. Upon the
broadcast of this message, everyone debits K_A's account by X units and
credits K_B's account by X units, unless this would create a negative
balance in K_A's account in which case the message is ignored.

3. The effecting of contracts. A valid contract must include a maximum
reparation in case of default for each participant party to it. It should
also include a party who will perform arbitration should there be a
dispute. All parties to a contract including the arbitrator must broadcast
their signatures of it before it becomes effective. Upon the broadcast of
the contract and all signatures, every participant debits the account of
each party by the amount of his maximum reparation and credits a special
account identified by a secure hash of the contract by the sum the maximum
reparations. The contract becomes effective if the debits succeed for
every party without producing a negative balance, otherwise the contract
is ignored and the accounts are rolled back. A sample contract might look
like this:

K_A agrees to send K_B the solution to problem P before 0:0:0 1/1/2000.
K_B agrees to pay K_A 100 MU (monetary units) before 0:0:0 1/1/2000. K_C
agrees to perform arbitration in case of dispute. K_A agrees to pay a
maximum of 1000 MU in case of default. K_B agrees to pay a maximum of 200
MU in case of default. K_C agrees to pay a maximum of 500 MU in case of
default.

4. The conclusion of contracts. If a contract concludes without dispute,
each party broadcasts a signed message "The contract with SHA-1 hash H
concludes without reparations." or possibly "The contract with SHA-1 hash
H concludes with the following reparations: ..." Upon the broadcast of all
signatures, every participant credits the account of each party by the
amount of his maximum reparation, removes the contract account, then
credits or debits the account of each party according to the reparation
schedule if there is one.

5. The enforcement of contracts. If the parties to a contract cannot agree
on an appropriate conclusion even with the help of the arbitrator, each
party broadcasts a suggested reparation/fine schedule and any arguments or
evidence in his favor. Each participant makes a determination as to the
actual reparations and/or fines, and modifies his accounts accordingly.

In the second protocol, the accounts of who has how much money are kept by
a subset of the participants (called servers from now on) instead of
everyone. These servers are linked by a Usenet-style broadcast channel.
The format of transaction messages broadcasted on this channel remain the
same as in the first protocol, but the affected participants of each
transaction should verify that the message has been received and
successfully processed by a randomly selected subset of the servers.

Since the servers must be trusted to a degree, some mechanism is needed to
keep them honest. Each server is required to deposit a certain amount of
money in a special account to be used as potential fines or rewards for
proof of misconduct. Also, each server must periodically publish and
commit to its current money creation and money ownership databases. Each
participant should verify that his own account balances are correct and
that the sum of the account balances is not greater than the total amount
of money created. This prevents the servers, even in total collusion, from
permanently and costlessly expanding the money supply. New servers can
also use the published databases to synchronize with existing servers.

The protocol proposed in this article allows untraceable pseudonymous
entities to cooperate with each other more efficiently, by providing them
with a medium of exchange and a method of enforcing contracts. The
protocol can probably be made more efficient and secure, but I hope this
is a step toward making crypto-anarchy a practical as well as theoretical
possibility.

======================================================================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 05:00:21 +0800
To: eternity@internexus.net
Subject: (eternity) democracy is a bad idea on the net too!
In-Reply-To: <199812051932.TAA12539@server.eternity.org>
Message-ID: <199812052026.UAA12863@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Markus Kuhn wrote:
> The main research aspect of this project is the joint administration of
> such distributed archives. For spam protection, you still need people
> who decide, which files are allowed on the distributed server
> infrastructure, and which are not. 

I think a better deciding factor of which files remain and which don't
is hard, anonymous ecash.  Allow the author, or server to charge for
storage, and charge for access.  Allow readers to contribute ecash to
the continued existance of a data.  Throw the lot together and let
profit maximisation sort the rest out.

> This administration is so far the weak link in the Eternity Service
> concept, because whoever decides that something is not spam takes
> over some responsibility for the content, and is therefore subject
> to legal power of national powers.

Anonymous ecash leaves noone (identifiable) deciding anything, just
people paying for encrypted secret split data to be stored and for
encrypted data to be transmitted.

> The distributed administration in my system will be controlled via a
> sort of cryptographically enforced digital constitution (written in a
> tiny special purpose functional programming language) that determines
> administrative rights in a freely configurable way for a distributed
> server architecture (allowing elections, votes, vetoes, impeachment,
> updates to the constitution, etc.).

Wew.  Re-inventing democracy and all the problems that go with in the
electronic world!  Sounds like this will re-invent `the tyranny of the
majority' syndrome.

I would prefer to see this kind imposition of majority views
considered a subscriber filtering service ontop of the document space.
This is then a canonicalization of the comment that "if you don't like
reading X, then don't read it!".  And also eternity itself is an
attempt to provide an efficient implemention, with cryptographic
assurance, of John Gilmore's quote "The 'net views censorship as
damage and routes around it".

To give an example, subscriber group X, let us say hard line muslims
(no images of females exposing any part of their body) choose to set
up an approved "view" (in the database sense) of the documents the
eternity distributed database then anyone who chooses can subscribe to
this view, fund it, vote in it's constitution (or sit passively in
it's dictatorship) as they see fit.  Similarly anyone is free to set
up their own, new filtering services, or to use no filtering service
at all!

Possibly this is the way you view the filtering service too, though if
this is the case I would suggest use of language such as "filter out"
in place of "delete", as delete suggests that someone or several
someones under a democratic constitution (or any other expressible
voting scheme) are able to prevent others from paying for the
distribution of data of interest only to a minority.

> This way, no single person will be responsible for the maintenance
> of such international software repositories, but a (usually
> international) group of democratically controlled volunteers does
> this. This way, US people can easily contribute to the
> administration of such distributed archives without having to share
> any legal responsibility for the fact that the archive also contains
> export controlled software, because the majority of administrators
> and not some single citizen alone has decided which files are
> allowed to use server space.

I think a better solution to the problem of an identitifiable
individual being viewed (by governments) as responsible for the
existance of a document is anonymity.  That way, the factions of the
US government interested in controlling bit-flow don't know who
submitted the document, nor who voted with hard ecash to keep it
there.

> without enabling at the same time the wide distribution and robust
> long-term storage of commonly considered despicable material such as
> child pornography, instructions for building weapons of mass
> destruction, or unwanted commercial advertising.

I don't think this is possible, or advisable even.  Cash is a better
metric of interest in data, trying to think in other terms just means
someone else will make the money.  John Gilmore's quote in monetary
terms.

The question is whether one believes in unconditional free speech or
not.

I suggest that those who believe in conditional free speech would be
wrong if their belief led them to try to deprive others of
unconditional free speech rather than setting up and subscribing along
other like-minded types to filtering services.

The muslims in the example above may view images of females showing
their faces as extreme heresy, worthy of the death penalty.  One has
to accomodate differing views of what is acceptable.  There is no
world view on what is acceptable, therefore I propose that a better
solution is to consider filtering.  The existance of data does not
hurt people.  People who object to the availability of data are
advocating the creation of `thought crime'.

> In fact, by providing easy to configure governmental mechanisms
> comparable to those national governments are based on for software
> repositories, we distribute the responsibility in a
> cryptographically enforced way over the thousands or millions of
> users of such archives, effectively bypassing any control of
> national governments, without the negative aspects of complete
> anarchy (s**m).

Filtering and rating services can provide an effective method of
avoiding reading data one is uninterested in.  If someone else is
interested enough in the availability of data to pay ecash to ensure
it's availability why would anyone else be interested to prevent this.

In a straight-forward translation of the voting scheme to monetary
voting, we might if we were not careful result in a system where
others (censors) are able to cast negative monetary votes by paying
servers not to distribute certain bit strings.  I think an eternity
system should view this as a cryptographic attack to be designed
around.  Design the system so that the server can not be bribed to not
distribute certain data by dint of not being able to recognise it.

Adam




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 04:37:12 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199812052012.VAA32710@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Sorry for all the questions but I've been
away from crypto for a while and I'm
looking for the best encryption program
for exchanging email between Unix and
Windows folks. I hope these questions are
appropriate here.

What do people generally think about S/MIME ?
Is it well designed (strong and extendable) ?
Is it convenient because its available in
the popular email clients ?
Is the most annoying thing about it that
you have to pay for the keys ?
Is there a way to self-sign keys ? SSLeay ?
Are most people still using PGP ?
If IDEA and MD5 (and PGP2.6.2) are not strong
enough anymore, what are the Unix folks
using ? Does the source for PGP5/6 compile
to any target besides Windoze ?

Thanks





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Albert P. Franco, II" 
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 19:51:06 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Vengeance Libertarianism
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981205220239.006a17c8@209.204.247.83>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Tim must be having a "bad hair" day. He actually mentioned sending people
to Labor Camps. That sounds so UN-Libertarian, I have to chuckle. I'm
chuckling because I wouldn't want to think you actually believe in this
very Hitleresque rant.

Or is some FED spoofing Tim and sending "threatening" material in his name?
In which case...lock and load, Tim. They're coming to get you!

APF

>and, have drifted into the camp I will dub "the vengeance
>libertarians." Summarized, roughly, as:
>
>"You've stolen my property, you've imprisoned my friends, you've passed
>laws making us all criminals, you've started wars to enrich your
>military-industrial complex friends, and you're corrupt bastards. You can
>forget about some kind of "libertarian amnesty." It's going to be payback
>time, with at least hundreds of thousands of statist judges, politicians,
>cops, soldiers, and other such persons going to the gallows. Payback time.
>Welfare recipients are going to have to pay back all that they have stolen,
>with compounded interest. Out of their pockets, or while in labor camps.
>Payback time."
>
>
>--Tim May
>




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Douglas L. Peterson" 
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 06:21:19 +0800
To: "William H. Geiger III" 
Subject: Re: pgp disk
In-Reply-To: <199812051907.OAA001.57@whgiii>
Message-ID: <3669B5A0.9242EDF7@chisp.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



William H. Geiger III wrote:
> 
> In , on
> 12/05/98
>    at 11:59 AM, Max Inux  said:
> 
> >>>Where is the source for pgpfone?
> 
> >Try pgpi.com, i believe if anyone has it they would.. maybe mit
> 
> AFAIK the source for PGPfone has never been released. I had wanted to do a
> port to the OS/2 platform but was never able to get the source code for
> it.
> 
> Nautilas has source available but I do not know what platforms it has been
> ported to.

Speak Freely can be found at these two sites:
http://www.fourmilab.ch/speakfree/unix/
http://www.fourmilab.ch/speakfree/windows/

It is free, has source code, and will work with pgp 2.6x.

-Doug
www.TheServerFarm.net




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Soren 
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 11:28:56 +0800
To: cyphers 
Subject: [Fwd: y2k/gary north delusions]
Message-ID: <366A01D6.28EF77EE@workmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

William J. Hartwell dropped this in my mailbox ...

To: Soren 
Subject: Re: y2k/gary north delusions
From: "William J.Hartwell" 
Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 14:21:32 -0700
In-Reply-To: <366958DF.FBF816FC@workmail.com>
References: <199812050047.SAA19462@manifold.algebra.com><36694C23.B4CB9509@nyu.edu>




>
>That's the fun part, figuring out how it could all be made to work.
>
>Unfortunately it's more likely that the sheeple will cry out for guvmint
>intervention to continue the flow of goodies, to which the western world
>has become addicted.
>
>IMHO, the military will be brought in to dig the latrines. Hoarders will
>be strung up for not redistributing their wealth in approved socialist
>style. Rewards will be posted for informing on a neighbor who is (may
>be) a hoarder (5% of the take?). 



Related to this... have you folks seen this thread going around some of the
y2k preparedness groups?

"..... its illegal to store more than 30 days of food ?....."


These folks are refering to some info on a web page related to executive
orders.

http://www.millennium-ark.net/News_Files/INFO_Files/EOs.html

This one I think needs some FUD busting...and no one does that better than
you guys!


--
					William J. Hartwell
					   (602)987-8436
					  Queencreek, Az.

billh@ibag.com			billh@interdem.com		billh@hartwell.net




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tom Weinstein 
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 15:42:03 +0800
To: John Gilmore 
Subject: Re: What was the quid pro quo for Wassenaar countries?
In-Reply-To: <199812050240.SAA24692@toad.com>
Message-ID: <366A2F3B.9A20B93A@netscape.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



John Gilmore wrote:

> PS:  I particularly like Ambassador Aaron's characterization that
> this new development will help US industry, by censoring foreign crypto
> publishers in the same way the US government censors US publishers.
> A giant step forward for freedom and commerce everywhere, eh Mr. Aaron?
> What an incredibly talented liar, I mean diplomat, he is.

I agree.  This is something that I found particularly offensive.  "Really,
we're doing it for your own good!"  Feh.

--
What is appropriate for the master is not appropriate| Tom Weinstein
for the novice.  You must understand Tao before      | tomw@netscape.com
transcending structure.  -- The Tao of Programming   |






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 13:01:12 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Financial disclosure panic?
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


X-Sender: kerry@phalse
MIME-Version: 1.0
Date:         Sat, 5 Dec 1998 21:16:35 -0500
Reply-To: Law & Policy of Computer Communications
              
Sender: Law & Policy of Computer Communications
              
From: Kerry Zero 
Subject:      Financial disclosure panic?
To: CYBERIA-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM

I am the webmaster for kevinmitnick.com, the internet source of
information on the legal and media injustices that have been committed
against Kevin Mitnick (a computer hacker arrested in 1995 who has remained
in prison, pre-trial, with no chance at bail for nearly 4 years now,
despite the fact that the charges against him are relatively mild in
comparison to some other convicted hackers).

In a hearing Wednesday my name was brought up by the judge, Mariana
Pfaelzer, because she had received notification that I had requested her
financial disclosure reports, a request I had assumed logical, considering
the large number of companies that are claimed as victims in Mitnick's
case.  I have been doing a lot of research on the Mitnick case during the
past few months, and this was one part of that research, ordering what I
thought were publicly available records, and which I understood were not
meant for dissemination -- I never published them or disclosed them to the
public (above all, I would never have published this information on the
web, although that was not even the issue, as the judge had no idea who I
was, and she was not even aware on Wednesday that I am also Kevin's site
webmaster).  Apparently the judge was not at all happy simply that someone
on Mitnick's side of the fence had even researched this.  I suppose she'd
have been happier if it had been the prosecution, although obviously that
wouldn't have helped me find the facts I needed to know :)

I was told by different sources (present in the courtroom) that the judge
reacted as though infuriated at my request, and she put the government on
notice that "if anything happened" -- and left the sentence uncompleted.

Now I am left wondering what the potential legal ramifications of this
incident could possibly be.  I did nothing illegal, although in the
judge's eyes, apparently it was immoral or otherwise not right.  I can't
understand why -- my only guess is that she (Judge Pfaelzer) has so firmly
bought the belief that Kevin Mitnick is an extremely dangerous hacker
(though nothing he has done, and nothing in the charges, indicates this)
that she simply fears any actions those of us innocently researching his
case might take.

The information I requested, as I understood it, was private, and not for
publication, but it is openly available to the public by request; one does
not have to be a lawyer to request it. I am not a lawyer; far from it; and
I'm not a computer-cracker either -- I'm a female programmer in my 20s and
I write online course software for a university. This seemingly (to me)
bizarre incident has me blown away completely.

The financial disclosure information is not even detailed enough as to
allow one to estimate income or any other personal information about the
judge, and so I'm having trouble understanding what any possible misuses
of this information could be (and I don't really want to know, at this
point! :)  although obviously I never intended anything to come of the
information in any way, unless it was directly relevant to the case.  If
there had been a conflict of interest with Judge Pfalezer, it would be
very significant to Mitnick's case.  At any rate, I'm uncertain as to what
I should fear from the government -- if anything.  If one of the
corporations listed in the judge's statement happens to go bankrupt, will
I be investigated?  It seems ridiculous to me, but I have been warned that
I may be investigated, and the government prosecutor now has a copy of the
request I made, which apparently so infuriated the judge.

To me, it seems that this court may believe everyone involved in Mitnick's
"cause" is dangerous, although even Kevin himself has never been accused
of committing harm to a person or to a computer -- he is basically accused
of copying software.  There have, however, been several particularly
damaging false "facts" printed in the media about him, such as that he
stole credit card numbers and that he broke into NORAD as a teenager --
neither of which ever appeared in any charges against Kevin, and both were
proven to be untrue, but not before being printed on the front page of the
NY Times, unfortunately.

I suppose it's not my place to speculate, but I wonder how Kevin can
possibly get a fair case with this type of paranoia against him and his
supporters, if indeed it is paranoia... perhaps it is only my own
ignorance of the law, and this happens all the time.

I just wondered if any of you had any thoughts.  I've been following this
list for a while and have found it very educational.

thanks,
kerry@2600.com

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 08:00:51 +0800
To: ryan@systemics.ai
Subject: Re: (eternity) eternity using politics rather than economics
In-Reply-To: <19981205164842.B25348@arianrhod.@>
Message-ID: <199812052327.XAA24671@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Ryan Lackey writes:
> When I was working on Eternity DDS stuff, I basically came to the same
> conclusion as Adam -- without anonymous bearer cash, you can't do
> a workable eternity implementation.

Well there is always hashcash (http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/hashcash/)
-- a highly distributed protocol, which should be easy to deploy, not
requiring central servers, and also (importantly) not requiring any
cooperation from banks or other parties.

One could use a simulated profit maximisation function based on
hashcash to allocate donated eternity space.

However, one suspects that due to the lack of convertibility, and
transferability of a unit of hashcash, people would start to use other
value metrics.  Perhaps political (servers cheating to help their pet
political cause, as there is no actual real profit motivation to
optimising for hashcash profit), or perhaps real cash leaking in, or
secondary market in hashcash.  The latter two would be a nice outcome
:-)

Perhaps this may be an application for Wei Dei's b-money protocol
(more on b-money in another post).

> It's an open question whether you could issue bearer cash backed in
> Eternity-units.  

Nice that.  Did you notice someone (I think on one of Bob Hettinga's
lists) proposing the sale of a percentage of internet bandwidth as a
net resource based unit.  As a proposed way to perhaps get around
hyper inflation, I think, though I am not sure entirely how this could
work either.

If I buy a particular unit of bandwidth I know it's value will fall
fast.  But the value of a _percentage_ of internet bandwidth will
increase.  However the people funding the bandwidth -- why would they
want to consider me a 0.001% stakeholder in their bandwidth?

One would need to buy shares in major bandwidth provision companies
like say cable & wireless.  Buy some shares in that to obtain a
percentage of the ownership of the percentage of total net bandwidth
that C&W owns?  Doesn't help.

Would a company selling bandwidth by the 1000th of a percentage of
global bandwidth profit from this?  It would have to use the money
raised by selling bandwidth percentage at todays prices to fund
increases in bandwidth in line with total bandwidth growth just to
fulfill it's obligations.  Add bearer share certificates for the
1000th percentage of global bandwidth and you have an appreciating
bearer asset based on net resources.  As long as such companies made
enough money to continue to exist.  Anyone have any plausible sounding
business plans for such an endeavour?

> That was my original plan, but it seems you would still want to have
> gold-units to trade for Eternity units.  The problems of
> guaranteeing quality of service in exchange for Eternity units are
> complicated but tractable, but having a separate scheme for auditing
> performance.

> Where I think "political" schemes would be particularly beneficial is 
> in sharing administrative control over a virtual corporation, etc.  

Political schemes such as those proposed by Markus are pretty nice for
collaborative filtering.  Just I would rather schemes be strongly
voluntary, and not have any negative effect on the purchasability of
eternity space by others.

Adam




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 08:48:42 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Wei Dei's "b-money" protocol
In-Reply-To: <199812051937.TAA12780@server.eternity.org>
Message-ID: <199812060008.AAA27126@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Some discussion of the properties of Wei's b-money protocol.

b-money seems to be book entry ecash system related to hashcash, where
the "book" is open, and distributed.  Anonymity is derived from the
fact that the participants can be pseudonymous.  hashcash would be a
candidate function for Wei's decentralised minting idea: to create
value you burn CPU time, just like with hashcash, but Wei's
distributed open book entry system allows you to psuedonymously
exchange value.

Problems are (1) inflation, (2) borrowing resources, (3) linkability
of transactions, (4) b-money has a big bulk discount, (5) getting
money in and (6) out, (7) resource waste.

(1) Inflation -- the cost of hardware to compute a given collision
falls in line with Moores law.  Perhaps one could get around this by
defining a b-money unit to require more computational effort over
time.  Say define 1 b-money unit to be the computational effort of 1
months compute on the most efficient hardware that can be bought for
$1000 at current prices and state of hardware.

(2) Borrowing resources -- a student with access to a campus full of
workstations can obtain quite a bit of free CPU time.

(3) Linkability -- although the participants are anonymous, their
transactions are linkable and so participants are pseudonymous in
b-money (linkable anonymity being pseudonymity).  This is inherent
because of the need to broadcast transactions to ensure the open book
entry is updated.

(4) You can get money in -- by buying hardware -- but it will cost
different people different amounts.  If I am using an existing general
purpose workstation my units will cost more than if I buy custom
hardware.  Not so bad a problem, just view this as an economy of
scale, or a bulk discount.

(5) Getting money in by buying hardware works, but people don't want
the inconvenience of buying custom hardware, they would rather just
buy b-money for force-monopoly backed money (national currencies).  If
we setup a mint which made it it's business to buy up-to-date custom
hardware it would be difficult to buy b-money anonymously because the
pseudonym would reveal his identity by the use of traceable payment
systems (credit card, cheque, wire transfer, etc).

(6) Getting money out is difficult also.  The pseudonymous b-money
user would find it difficult to obtain force-monopoly money without
revealing his identity.

(7) If such a system took off there seems to be an overhead equivalent
to the value of b-money in circulation which over time has essentially
been burnt off in disipated heat, and useless hardware.  But probably
the cost is still much lower than the enormous costs involved in
maintaining a force monopoly to enforce traceable transactions.


Some thoughts on ways to improve on some of these areas:

To improve the problems of pseudonym identity leakage in (5) (paying
for b-money) perhaps we could formulate a blinded cost function rather
than my suggestion of hashcash.  In this way one could easily purchase
hashcash.  One approach to achieving this would be to have an ordinary
ecash mint using chaumian blinding but somehow be able to audit that
the mint is producing hashcash tokens to match each ecash withdrawl.
Then we would have an blind ecash mint backed in hashcash.  The
purchasing pseudonym unblinds the token and broadcasts it.  Servers
check that it has not been seen before, and increase the pseudonym's
balance by it's value.

Periodically the hashcash mint has to publish it's hashcash to prove
that it is not cheating.

It may be that you could find a blind cost function which achieves
both blinding and some cost function at the same time, to skip the
stage of the mint publishing associated hashcash.

Adam




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 08:45:31 +0800
To: ravage@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: Re: (eternity) cost metrics
In-Reply-To: <199812052047.OAA31186@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <199812060026.AAA28211@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate writes:
> Adam Back  wrote:
> > I think a better deciding factor of which files remain and which don't
> > is hard, anonymous ecash.  [...]
> 
> There is some window for abuse in this method. It allows a well endowed
> entity to bias the information available. 

The alternatives, such as say one vote per person have problems too.
Perhaps one person cares greatly about the issue and spends the one
vote posting pro-X information (for some issue X), and the other
person hardly cares at all, but has some slight bias against issue X
so spends one vote posting anti-X information.  Now we have ignored
this difference in scale.

Cash allows you to measure the scale.

Perhaps an in-between voting metric might be percentage of individuals
wealth.  But then this also is unfair because a pennyless dole sponger
could dump 50% of his wealth on an issue on a whim, and the person who
has mega bucks may have worked hard to have the money to help
disseminate information about some issue Y he believes passionately
in.

So straight cash seems I think to be a good metric.

Note also my earlier comment that I view an important eternity
objective to be preventing negative votes on data availability.  You
can only disseminate more, say contradictory, information not remove
information.  You can attempt to disseminate more copies (make
available with higher redundancy, and fund faster download) perhaps,
but this does not drown out the other information.

Filtering and rating services should ensure that just because there
are a lot of copies of naff software my mega-corp M out there, it
won't in anyway reduce your access to quality open source software,
nor slow you down in finding it neatly cataloged by use by your
quality open source software rating service.

If you worry that mega-corp M will buy all available space at a
premium, there is an easy solution: if mega-corporation M decides to
flood eternity space with their inferior software, one can combat them
by getting into the eternity servers business, taking their money and
using the profits to disseminate quality open source software, or
simply to profit from their gullibility.

> There is also the question of data degredation, in the sense of
> worth, over time versus the archival/historical worth of the
> data.

As long as people are interested to keep the data around in low
priority low access speed storage they will pay for this to happen.

If they don't care -- well they don't care.  People who do care can
fund it, and evangelize to others on the merits of doing this.  No one
has any special right to force others to pay for keeping junk around
for the sheer historical sake of completeness of it.

Adam




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 08:11:43 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: Re: the shit hitting the fan (fwd)
Message-ID: <199812052347.AAA20373@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>It's during times like these that you learn more about your fellow
>c'punks than you need to ...

You're correct. I had no clue that the Cypherpunks were such a shitty group. 

>On Fri, 4 Dec 1998, Jim Choate wrote:
>
>> Forwarded message:
>>
>> > Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 06:00:13 +0100
>> > From: Anonymous 
>> > Subject: the shit hitting the fan
>>
>> > LA has 1e7 people who shit about a kilo per day.  Compute the volume of that
>> > after a week.
>>
>> It's not the raw volume that's critical but rather the percentage of the
>> average personal space per inhabitant versus how much to store a weeks
>> worth. For the average person storing a weeks worth of solid waste in a
>> platic bag with bleach, lye, or similar material is reasonable.
>>
>> I've gone on long duration camping trips of about a weeks length and the
>> storing and portage costs are not excessive (having a boat or horse helps
>> move it around).

FlushMonger




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 17:42:14 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981206010738.0098bc90@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 02:47 PM 12/5/98 -0600, Jim Choate wrote, not in this order:
> Two major negatives to a free-market approach that are never discussed.

>There is also the question of data degredation, in the sense of worth, 
>over time versus the archival/historical worth of the data.

Huh?  We talk about this all the time.  How much does data storage cost,
and how long is the information useful to readers and writers,
and how do these change over time?   Those are some of the main factors
that drive the potential pricing structures -- if you get them
wrong you either bleed money (so nobody wants to offer the service)
or overcharge (so almost nobody wants to buy it), but if you get
them right you might Make Big Bucks, if you're good and there's
really a market for this sort of thing.

>There is some window for abuse in this method.
>It allows a well endowed entity to bias the information available. 

Not in any way that matters, and this _is_ a critical free-market point.
Yes, rich folks can pay for eternity services that carry all the
information they care about, just as they can pay for web pages they want,
because they've got money to burn and can overpay for it,
while you politically correct poorer folks can pay for the information
you want, but only if it's economically viable, just as with the web.
Get used to it.  Information storage isn't an economic good like land,
where they ain't making any more of that stuff, so if rich people
can outbid you for the fixed supply you lose - it's a good that
increases in supply as money gets thrown at people who generate it,
and having rich people making the cover traffic grow is a Good Thing.
	(In reality, of course, the early market will be biased toward 
	porn, warez, and pirated music, just like the rest of the net :-)

As has been discussed on this list before, there are two main
components to the cost - the cost of storage and the cost of retrieval.
Storage keeps getting radically cheaper and larger every year, and
you could provide storage forever for about twice the cost of one year's 
storage, assuming minimal inflation and continual technology improvement.

On the other hand, the cost of retrieval depends on how often the
document is accessed, as well as for how long - you could probably provide
a fixed N accesses per year forever for a low fixed price,
because bandwidth will keep getting cheaper,
but to accommodate any volume of retrievals, you need to charge
per access, either as digicash or perhaps substitutes such as banner ads
if they bring in enough revenue (Geocities apparently thinks they do.)





				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Hohensee 
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 13:35:17 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: y2k/gary north delusions
In-Reply-To: <199812050047.SAA19462@manifold.algebra.com>
Message-ID: <366A2313.DF9FA151@nyu.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Soren wrote:
> 
> Michal Hohensee wrote:
> >
> >
> > Latrines aren't sufficient to the task.  In a city like NYC, latrines
> > might solve the problem for perhaps a week (assuming that we tear up all
> > the roads and sidewalks --something which we cannot do in time, even if
> > we wanted to), but then they'll be full, and there won't be any more
> > places the latrines can be rotated to.
> 
> One obvious advantage to living in the penthouse of a highrise.  Of
> course, the elevators may not be working. The elevator shaft may make an
> effective latrine though.

A temporary solution, at best.  You still have to go down to the ground
to shop, go to work, etc.  Besides, even if you don't get infected
directly from the offal on the ground, you can still be infected by
other people.  

> Current waste disposal conventions such as sewers and trash removal
> don't actually magically make this stuff disappear.  In NYC it all ends
> up in the Atlantic latrine, where it gets picked up by the gulf stream
> and ends up being deposited on Florida beaches after a long sea journey.
> There are so many plastic bags bearing logos in the sargasso sea, it
> looks like it has been sold off to corporate interests for advertizing
> purposes.

Yah, but they are pretty good at siphoning the stuff out of the city,
where people live, which is the point.  *Where* it's siphoned to may not
be the most intelligent place, but as long as it's not next to us, we
don't get sick and die nearly as often.  I'm not saying that existing
sewer systems are perfect, but they *are* keeping us alive. 

Michael Hohensee




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Hohensee 
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 13:51:38 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: y2k/gary north delusions
In-Reply-To: <199812051640.KAA04447@manifold.algebra.com>
Message-ID: <366A2610.7F850BA3@nyu.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Igor Chudov @ home wrote:
> 
> Michael Hohensee wrote:
> > Latrines aren't sufficient to the task.  In a city like NYC, latrines
> > might solve the problem for perhaps a week (assuming that we tear up all
> > the roads and sidewalks --something which we cannot do in time, even if
> > we wanted to), but then they'll be full, and there won't be any more
> > places the latrines can be rotated to.
> 
> Why, shit is actually pretty compact. usually with latrines, the liquid
> filtrates out, and the compressed shit does not take too much space.
> 
> If you dig a deep enough hole (2-3 yards) it should last for a long,
> long time. I estimate that a human being produces about 1/2 to 1lb
> of hard waste per day, some are more full of it, some less. Let's settle
> on one lb per day.
> 
> Let's see, a hole that is 5 yards wide, 3 yards deep, and, say, 2 yards
> wide, is about 30 cubic yards. It could take about 40 tons of hard
> compressed waste, that is, 80 thousand man-days of shitting can be
> compressed in it.
> 
> You definitely need some heavy machinery to dig this kind of hole
> (and then you have to build smoe kind of frame over it to prevent people
> from falling into it if it collapses), but it is not hard and can even
> be done in a catastrophic scenario.
> 
> That's a lot!!! Let's see,a high rise building with 50 floors and 10
> apartments in each floor, that's about 1200 people. The latrine would
> last them what, about sixty days! And then they can dig another one.

This assumes that we can compress it this much, which assumes that we
have sufficient machinery.  It further assumes that we will be able to
ignore the "wet" component of human waste.  You can't just pour it down
the drains.

Next, we should realize that these latrines are themselves not going to
be particularly sanitary, and it would be most unwise to use them for
any extended period of time.  Hell, even *with* flush toilets, I've seen
people squatting down in subway stations to take a leak not more than 5
feet from the restroom.

Further, we should realize that for the above reason, people are not
going to be particularly motivated to use these latrines.  After all,
nobody wants to hold it for a long time while they wait in line to take
a leak, just for the privilege of relieving themselves in disease
central.  You're going to see shit in the street in any case.

Finally, even if we dig these holes, (and they're *going* to be bigger
than what you describe, as they must contain liquid, as well as solid
waste), we're going to end up messing up the roads something fierce. 
Big cities *need* roads to transport life-critical items.  If we dig
them up, we're in even worse trouble.

> > Then we're back to doing it in the open.  Less concentrated cities might
> > last a while longer, but not much longer.  There's no getting around it,
> > we *need* working sewer systems to have modern cities.  Otherwise, the
> > cities die.
> 
> Not in the short run. They could survive for a while.
> 
>         - Igor.

In the *very* short run.  Like, say, a few weeks.  That is if the food
doesn't stop coming in first --then things finish up a bit sooner.

Michael Hohensee




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Hohensee 
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 13:49:34 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: y2k/gary north delusions
In-Reply-To: <199812051511.KAA001.50@whgiii>
Message-ID: <366A26C2.30D6892E@nyu.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



William H. Geiger III wrote:
> 
> In <36694C23.B4CB9509@nyu.edu>, on 12/05/98
>    at 10:07 AM, Michael Hohensee  said:
> 
> >Then we're back to doing it in the open.  Less concentrated cities might
> >last a while longer, but not much longer.  There's no getting around it,
> >we *need* working sewer systems to have modern cities.  Otherwise, the
> >cities die.
> 
> And you say this as if it is a bad thing.
> 

Well it is, sorta.  I've got the misfortune to live in NYC, as do many
many many other people.  People who (like me) aren't particularly
interested in dying of disease and/or starvation.  If the "shit hits the
fan", we're in for a serious mess, in any event. :/

Michael Hohensee




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 11:03:46 +0800
To: ichudov@Algebra.COM
Subject: ...
Message-ID: <199812060228.DAA03195@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> My friend needs a website with explanations of PK cryptography
> and related interesting protocols. I have Schneier's book but she
> lives far from me and the book is too long for her to read.
> 
> Any suggestions for something on the Web?

This does not fully explain the protocols, but an explanation of RSA is
available at John Young's Cryptome.

http://jya.com/whprsa.htm

Download it, though, because it was one of the files relating to Bill Payne
which will most likely be deleted when he gets his own web page up as promised.

Diffie-Hellman and NSA's Key Exchange Algorithm need no URLs --

Diffie-Hellman was designed by Whitfield Diffie and Martin Hellman, and its
publication sparked public-key cryptography (and received a standing ovation
when presented).

The Key Exchange Algorithm (KEA) is an NSA "type II" algorithm used in the
Defense Messaging System. It was kept classified until recently. Schneier
mentions in his CRYPTO-GRAM newsletter that problems with making
tamper-resistant hardware carrying the algorithm may have led to its release.

The devices are named A and B. Brackets represent a value's "owner."

Diffie-Hellman:

Both: Retrieve public values g and p.
   A: Chooses a random secret value x[A].
      Calculates X[A]=g^x[A] mod p.
      Sends X[A] to B.
   B: Chooses a random secret value x[B].
      Calculates X[B]=g^x[A] mod p.
      Sends X[B] to A.
   A: Raises value received from B to the x[A] power and uses this to calculate
      the key.
   B: Raises value received from A to the x[B] power and uses this to calculate
      the key.

KEA:

(this is a modified version of an old post to Cypherpunks)

Constants:
p: 1024-bit prime modulus
q: 160-bit prime divisor of p-1
g: 1024-bit base

Secret user-dependent values:
x: 160-bit random key
r: 160-bit random key

Public user-dependent values:
Y: g^x mod p
R: g^r mod p

z(x, y) represents KEA threshing.

1  A->B: Y[a]
2  B->A: Y[b]
3  A->B: R[a]
4  B->A: R[b]
5  A   : (Y[b])^q mod p = 1? If not, stop; (R[b])^q mod p = 1? If not, stop;
         Are Y[b] and R[b] between 1 and p? If not, stop.
6  B   : (Y[a])^q mod p = 1? If not, stop; (R[a])^q mod p = 1? If not, stop;
         Are Y[a] and R[a] between 1 and p? If not, stop.
7  A   : t[ab]=(Y[b])^r[a] mod p; u[ab]=(R[b])^x[a] mod p
8  B   : t[ab]=(R[a])^x[b] mod p; u[ab]=(Y[a])^r[b] mod p
9  A   : (t[ab]+u[ab]) mod p = 0? If so, stop; if not, Key=z(t[ab],u[ab])
10 B   : (t[ab]+u[ab]) mod p = 0? If so, stop; if not, Key=z(t[ab],u[ab])

Zero-Knowledge Protocols:
http://www.tcm.hut.fi/Opinnot/Tik-110.501/1995/zeroknowledge.html

RSA Data Security's RSA Labs on protocols:
http://www.rsa.com/rsalabs/faq/html/7.html

> 
> thanks
> 
> igor




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 20:28:35 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: Commerce Hacked?
Message-ID: <199812061208.HAA29686@camel7.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Since some time after the Department of Commerce issued the 
recent press release on Wassenaar the site (www.doc.gov) has not 
been accessible, at least not from here.

The press release section of the International Trade
Administration (www.ita.doc.gov), David Aaron's org, for a while 
had a notice that updating was being done and the site would 
be fixed shortly. Then the ITA site  disappeared, along with the 
main DoC site.

We spoke with a public affairs rep at DoC before this happened
and to inquire when the department would issue detailed information
to flesh out the press release. I said there was a furor over Aaron's 
spin, and much skepticism of its validity. She said she would check 
and call back but hasn't.

Wonder if the site was hacked, from the outside or inside.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 16:21:34 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: PGP Disk
Message-ID: <199812060804.JAA30605@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> Has anyone had the chance to try out the new McAfee PGP disk?
> It seems pretty straightforward, allowing for the creation of 
> encrypted "drives" using the CAST algorithm.  Is anyone aware of 
> any security flaws with it?

Make sure you get the latest version.  The version released in May or
June had a bug in it (bug was only in the Windows version, the Mac is OK).
The new version re-encrypts old PGP disks to fix the problem.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 23:17:31 +0800
To: e$@vmeng.com, dbs@philodox.com>
Subject: e$: Cryptography -- The Steel Rails of Digital Commerce
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----


Lots of sensible people on cypherpunks have made an excellent point before,
but Nelson Minar has said it quite succinctly in the message below, with an
outstanding example from Sun, in the post that I'm including here from Perry
Metzger's cryptography list.

The point it this: There is only one, and completely acceptable, solution to
this whole crypto-exportabilty mess: don't export anything. That is, make
*only* strong crypto, make it inside your country, and let crypto folks in
other countries take care of themselves. The permiability of national borders
to the internet will get your actual cryptography overseas if it's novel
and useful, and, if you use crypto plugged into your software, like Sun
does with Java, then you'll sell more of that software because it
*requires* strong cryptography, other people's or not.

Geodesic, recursive software auctions with digital bearer-settled cash will
eventually make all of this, including intellectual property issues, moot
someday :-), but, in the meantime, simply obeying the laws on crypto export
will work marvellously. Even in a post- "Adult Action" world, where all
laws are enforceable everywhere, obeying them all, will, paradoxically,
work just fine, as we'll see in a bit.


Of course, all this makes the crypto *import*/arbitrage market, where C2NET
made their first million, a mostly diminishing one, whether Wassenaar works
or not. Certainly it's not a large enough market to renounce your citizenship
for, as one member of their firm has done. This whole export-control tactic
will eventually fail, and when crypto is unregulated, either by the market
or by law itself, some crypto-fugitives will still be locked out of the
largest economies in the world, especially if, however temporary the tactic
and doomed to failure it is, nation-states actually criminalize
crypto-arbitrage itself.


Again, it's not laws, it's technology, which is the solution to this silly,
and fairly theocratic, dispute about criminalizing the export of cryptography.

Remember the e$yllogism: Strong cryptography is essential to digital commerce.
In fact, strong financial cryptography is utterly necessary *and* sufficient
for digital commerce. Thus, no strong cryptography, no digital commerce.

Since all commerce will have a digital, and thus cryptographic, component
soon enough, cryptographic regulation is, like Carl Ellison's analogy of
church doctrine forbidding peasants from shooting nobility, fairly useless.
Especially since nation-states can't help but allow the use of strong
cryptography to facilitate commerce, in the same way that they can't help
but allow the use of steel in their railroads.


So, I say unto all ye crypto-peasants out there, obey the Doctrine of
Crypto-Prohibition, on pain of the loss of your immortal soul. That is,
make and use the strongest cryptography that your microprocessors can
handle, and, like the peasant who, in confession, admits the shooting of a
knight, obey dogma and don't export cryptography: it will "export" itself,
like all good ideas do.

Cryptography, like the technology of gunpowder -- or better, steel -- is not
optional.


Cheers,
Robert Hettinga



- --- begin forwarded text


MIME-Version: 1.0
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 18:47:25 -0500 (EST)
From: nelson@media.mit.edu (Nelson Minar)
To: Raph Levien 
Cc: cryptography@c2.net
Subject: Re: Wassenaar vs. CipherSaber
Sender: owner-cryptography@c2.net

>I'm spending more and more of my time these days in the free software
>community (not all that big a leap for a cypherpunk). I'm seeing the
>"crypto integration" problem all over the place.

This is an issue of serious concern; it's really holding up the
adoption of encryption, particularly at the TCP/IP level.

An interesting model for how to get around the US regulations is what
Sun is doing with Java. Java 1.2 ships with pretty much everything you
need for strong, composable cryptography - big numbers, a key
management framework, digital signatures.

But they're following the letter of the US export regulations. Sun has
defined the Java Cryptographic Extensions, a decent API for doing
encryption. Bcause they are a US company they only ship a JCE
implementation to people in the US. But they've made it about as easy
as possible for folks outside the US to implement their own drop-in
replacements.

One interesting choice they've made is that, as near as I can tell,
they aren't even bothering to ship a 40/56 bit crippled version. If
you want crypto at all, you have to use Sun's JCE or get a non-US
alternative. So you can only get real crypto, not some useless junk.

I think that's probably the right idea - don't cave in to the US
regulations, just follow them the minimum you have to and make sure
it's easy for people outside the US to reimplement the parts you are
not allowed to ship.

I guess we have to wait and see how much Wassenaar complicates things.

                                                  nelson@media.mit.edu
.       .      .     .    .   .  . . http://www.media.mit.edu/~nelson/

- --- end forwarded text

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.5.5

iQEVAwUBNmqVrcUCGwxmWcHhAQE0zwgAqVUrB7Vu1NVqNHaGHeRTHUB9Z2li7x/m
5eMYUdKu8I3696LCC9CApwHi2vGW39jh0/dUR26+utNQ6MaJEyCrpjA7WpSvaqBQ
XGrEPjEN58KQAlGydmjpxxL4ukX606dTKndiTPz5ujRGo1EtshRkB+2NmnUZOYZN
+ECDrOylPFkDLDMqLGwqzY9zU79xZMvyIVQvpT2onUzfx3LgyjjC2/ZQbvJmOSsD
vk14KbsyL6UEwyaH8FqUZWG/qGgQSALJsLpregApq0QHWl15+rEd+TvqWnyPvDKL
cIIz3Cyo0QlwYFQWhg6JiPWRB+GQxaDaMS7QQqZeBqUSJclnVdJH+w==
=gpAa
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim Griffiths 
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 22:31:05 +0800
To: Eric Cordian 
Message-ID: <366A8C61.2B14E950@wis.weizmann.ac.il>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Eric Cordian wrote:
> 
> Could someone (other than Jim Choate) explain the mechanism behind the
> Aharonov-Bohm effect, where a quantum field propagating via two
> distinct paths finds its wavefunction phase shifted by the amount of magnetic
> flux enclosed, even if it is completely shielded from the magnetic field,
> and traverses only regions of space where B=0.

What do you actually want explaining? Although the magnetic field is
zero along the paths traveled (so that electrons never feel the magnetic
field and the Lorentz force that affects a moving charge in one), the
vector
potential field is not, and is different for the two paths. This causes
the
AB-effect. See, for example G.Baym, 'Lectures on Quantum Mechanics'
(Benjamin, NY, 1969) page 77-79.

> This has apparently been experimentally verified,

Yup, one of the best being N.Osakabe et al, Physics Review A, v34, page
815,
(1986).

> and is a leading candidate for reading the state of quantum dots.

I think you have that the wrong way round - the state of Q. dots is
easy to measure, and so if you put a QD in one arm of an Aharonov-Bohm
interferometer, then measuring the state of the dot allows you know
which path an electron took. If you know that, the wavefunction of
the electron collapses to include just one path, so there is no
interference.
Eyal Buks et al demonstrated this last year - as they increased the
sensitivity of the probe to measure the occupancy of the quantum dot,
the Aharonov-Bohm oscillations in what was classical a separate
system died away.

If you want more details, I'll be happy to explain more. Maybe we should
take it off-list, though, as I seem to have accidently included
references and an informed opinion in my reply, rather than a bigoted
rant.

As for relevance, it is left as an exercise for the reader to work out
why it might be useful to in principle measure fluctuations in a
magnetic
field which is heavily screened, and it's application to cryptography
and
privacy.


Tim

--
Tim Griffiths                   griffith@wis.weizmann.ac.il
Center for Submicron Research   http://tim01.ex.ac.uk
Weizmann Institute of Science   (972)-8-934-2736
Rehovot 76100 Israel

 'I have sat and listened to the arguments of men,
  and I tell you they are shallow movements in space
  tied to reality only by the ego of their minds.' -DF




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 00:17:15 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: (eternity) cost metrics (fwd)
Message-ID: <199812061547.JAA00980@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 00:26:19 GMT
> From: Adam Back 
> Subject: Re: (eternity) cost metrics

> Jim Choate writes:
> > Adam Back  wrote:
> > > I think a better deciding factor of which files remain and which don't
> > > is hard, anonymous ecash.  [...]
> > 
> > There is some window for abuse in this method. It allows a well endowed
> > entity to bias the information available. 
> 
> The alternatives, such as say one vote per person have problems too.

I'll agree that any system that relies on charging the originator of the
information, versus the user of the information, is flawed in this way.

Does your local grocery store charge the truck that delivers its tomato's?
Does a book publisher ask that the potential author pay for the book run and
advertising? Does the newspaper charge their reporters to put their articles
in the paper?

> Cash allows you to measure the scale.

No, it allows a mechanism in the short-term for the Eternity market to be
manipulated by parties with a political interest and large buckets of cash.

> So straight cash seems I think to be a good metric.

The point of the cash is to provide a motivation to keep Eternity up, NOT a
measure of the worth of any specfic piece of information from the
perspective of the server operator, it's the users of that data that define
it's worth. That worth can and probably will have many facets that can't be
reflected in simple dollars and by definition outside the keen of the
Eternity networks current worth estimation model.

In the majority of cases the Eternity operator won't have a clue as to the
actual market worth of some data.

There is also the issue of information worth collapse once the data is
available off the Eternity network that hasn't been touched. This works to
the negative of the Eternity networks long-term goal.

For example, let's say a whistle-blower comes in with some juicy info. The
Eternity server network, through some mechanism that I've never seen
sufficiently described, determine that the originator must pay some amount
of money to post it. The data gets posted and users grab it over the next
few days. Then once it's available in the alternate channels (eg printed on
a webpage of a newspaper) the future market potential for the Eternity
servers goes through the floor.

This motivates the Eternity network to over-value the worth of data which
further keeps folks out.

> Note also my earlier comment that I view an important eternity
> objective to be preventing negative votes on data availability.  You
> can only disseminate more, say contradictory, information not remove
> information.

Well, considering that Eternity doesn't do anything regarding archiving and
long-term storage there really isn't a worry here. All that's required is to
keep the price up until the window of relevance is gone. Then back out, the
price drops back to it's original cost but now that it's relevance is gone
it slowly (or not) fades away. Depending on the particular nature of the 

> You can attempt to disseminate more copies (make
> available with higher redundancy, and fund faster download) perhaps,
> but this does not drown out the other information.

Actualy this is a complete change of track and irrelevant.

The POINT is that if there is a piece of information that I want to keep out
of the hands of others I simply go to server after server and ask for a
copy. This activity raises the price. Since I've got lots of cash and I want
that document to be expensive I continue to buy copies further inflating the
price.

> If you worry that mega-corp M will buy all available space at a
> premium, there is an easy solution:

Straw man, if the Eternity servers have a clue as M Corp. buys more space
the server operators buy more drives to sell since their now in the data
space business and not the information brokering business. Hence M Corp. has
distracted the Eternity services from their primary operations.

So a workable strategy for M Corp. would be to inflate the price on the data
they want to hide as well as continue to dump monies into the Eternity
network buying space. Then at some point they abruptly stop their support
and the Eternity services collapse because they've now grown to such an
extent they can't survive without this artificial market manipulation. So
the Eternity servers go down, further obfuscating the original information
that M Corp wanted to hide.

The Eternity model also completely ignores the consequences of such a
manipulation in regards the re-building of a new service after the collapse.
The amount of trust that potential users have will be low further increasing
the difficulty of keeping the servers operating long-term.

Because the Eternity network relies only on the immediate short-term worth
of data it is brittle.

> > There is also the question of data degredation, in the sense of
> > worth, over time versus the archival/historical worth of the
> > data.
> 
> As long as people are interested to keep the data around in low
> priority low access speed storage they will pay for this to happen.
> 
> If they don't care -- well they don't care.  People who do care can
> fund it, and evangelize to others on the merits of doing this.  No one
> has any special right to force others to pay for keeping junk around
> for the sheer historical sake of completeness of it.

So, a primary ideal of the Eternity service is that as long as the data has
a worth below some level they'll drop it.

This is one of the reasons that a long-term service like this won't work. It
isn't reliable because I can't come back 50 or a 100 years from now to get a
piece of data unless there is sufficient interest by other parties to access
it as well.

This is short-sighted and limits the use of Eternity.


    ____________________________________________________________________

           If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me
           in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation,
           it is: bullying
 
                                                Howard Zinn


       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 00:16:38 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: (eternity) democracy is a bad idea on the net too! (fwd)
Message-ID: <199812061551.JAA01051@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Sun, 06 Dec 1998 01:07:38 -0800
> From: Bill Stewart 
> Subject: Re: (eternity) democracy is a bad idea on the net too! (fwd)

> At 02:47 PM 12/5/98 -0600, Jim Choate wrote, not in this order:
> > Two major negatives to a free-market approach that are never discussed.
> 
> >There is also the question of data degredation, in the sense of worth, 
> >over time versus the archival/historical worth of the data.
> 
> Huh?  We talk about this all the time.  How much does data storage cost,
> and how long is the information useful to readers and writers,

And you drop it at that point. No, you do not adequately discuss the
ramification of the economic nor of the social and historic motives to drive
the long-term archiving of all data in the network.

The current Eternity model is brittle in several ways. The problem is the
current economic model that all its supporters are wedded to. If that model
changes and takes on the range of responsibilities (some of them outside a
simple profit/cost approach) that such a service should carry it would work.

I made reference to a couple of these in my responce to Adam so I won't
reitterate them here.


    ____________________________________________________________________

           If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me
           in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation,
           it is: bullying
 
                                                Howard Zinn


       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 00:13:53 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: China executes pager smugglers [CNN]
Message-ID: <199812061557.JAA01136@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> X-within-URL: http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/asiapcf/9812/06/china.execution.ap/

>               CHINA EXECUTES TWO FOR SMUGGLING COMPUTERS, PAGERS
>                                        
>    December 6, 1998
>    Web posted at: 6:17 a.m. EDT (0617 GMT)
>    
>    BEIJING, China (AP) -- In the midst of a sweeping crackdown on illegal
>    imports, China said Sunday that it has executed a computer executive
>    and an office worker for smuggling computers, pagers and other
>    electronic goods into the country.
>    
>    The deaths come as China carries out a campaign to enforce trade
>    barriers that shield its industries from foreign competition in an
>    attempt to quash a multibillion-dollar market for illegally imported
>    products.

[text deleted]


    ____________________________________________________________________

           If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me
           in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation,
           it is: bullying
 
                                                Howard Zinn


       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Eric Cordian 
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 01:35:41 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Aharonov-Bohm Effect
In-Reply-To: <366A8C61.2B14E950@wis.weizmann.ac.il>
Message-ID: <199812061706.LAA29544@wire.insync.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Tim Griffiths  writes:
 
> What do you actually want explaining? Although the magnetic field is
> zero along the paths traveled (so that electrons never feel the
> magnetic field and the Lorentz force that affects a moving charge in
> one), the vector potential field is not, and is different for the two
> paths. This causes the AB-effect. See, for example G.Baym, 'Lectures
> on Quantum Mechanics' (Benjamin, NY, 1969) page 77-79.
 
Why do I find this odd?  Because the electromagnetic field acts
locally, the vector potential is not directly observable and depends
on ones choice of gauge, and wavefunction phase is also not directly
observable.  The integral of the vector potential around the closed
path is of course well-defined, but this is global, not local.
 
So it seems strange, and hints at some sort of "action at a distance"
thing occuring.  The wavefunction is being perturbed according to the
magnetic flux enclosed by a path, even while propagating in a region
distant to the flux which contains no electromagnetic field at all.
 
> As for relevance, it is left as an exercise for the reader to work out
> why it might be useful to in principle measure fluctuations in a
> magnetic field which is heavily screened, and it's application to
> cryptography and privacy.
 
It still seems counterintuitive to suggest that I can make a tour
around a magnetic field an arbitrary distance away, and get a precise
reading of its strength.  Would it work a mile away?  A light year
away?  Does this result follow from QED?  Some equations might be
helpful.

--  
Sponsor the DES Analytic Crack Project
http://www.cyberspace.org/~enoch/crakfaq.html
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Blanc" 
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 04:11:28 +0800
To: "'Tim May'" 
Subject: RE: Vengeance Libertarianism
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <000001be214f$b78da940$688195cf@blanc>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>From Tim May:

: "You've stolen my property, you've imprisoned my friends, you've passed
: laws making us all criminals, you've started wars to enrich your
: military-industrial complex friends, and you're corrupt bastards. You can
: forget about some kind of "libertarian amnesty." It's going to be payback
: time, with at least hundreds of thousands of statist judges, politicians,
: cops, soldiers, and other such persons going to the gallows.
: Payback time.  Welfare recipients are going to have to pay back all that
: they have stolen, with compounded interest. Out of their pockets, or while in
: labor camps.  Payback time."
.................................................



	When.


   ..
Blanc




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Diana 
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 01:20:42 +0800
To: 
Subject: Business Web Hosting @ $12.95 + E-Commerce With Free Web Hosting  Advertisement
Message-ID: <419.436134.87339352sales@webhosting.dddcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Richard Fiero 
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 04:41:09 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Palm III proves a hi-tech helper for car thieves
Message-ID: <199812062006.NAA24550@pophost.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Taken from
http://www.theregister.co.uk/981204-000007.html

A 3Com Palm III and software that lets the handheld control TVs and VCRs
through its infrared port are all you need to nick a car these days, it seems.

Danish IT journalist Lars Sorensen made the discovery when testing the
sofwtare's legitimate uses. The software samples a TV's remote control
signals so it can replicate them -- Sorensen wondered if it would do the
same with a car's infrared lock and found that it would.

Here in the UK, estimates from the Motor Insurance Repair Research Centre,
quoted in New Scientist magazine, suggest that three million of the 22
million cars on the road are vulnerable to Palm-toting thieves.

Interestingly, older cars that are more at risk than newer models. Most
modern vehicles contain locking systems that change the locking code every
time the key is used from sequences of 10 to the power 64 (a one with 64
zeros after it) making it virtually impossible to predict the code at any
given instance.

That said, Sorensen was able to enter a 1998 model, so no one can be sure
they are safe.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 05:28:26 +0800
To: mah248@nyu.edu (Michael Hohensee)
Subject: No food, no shit (Re: y2k/gary north delusionsn)
In-Reply-To: <366A2610.7F850BA3@nyu.edu>
Message-ID: <199812062043.OAA12057@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Michael Hohensee wrote:
> 
> 
> Igor Chudov @ home wrote:
> > 
> > Michael Hohensee wrote:
> > > Latrines aren't sufficient to the task.  In a city like NYC, latrines
> > > might solve the problem for perhaps a week (assuming that we tear up all
> > > the roads and sidewalks --something which we cannot do in time, even if
> > > we wanted to), but then they'll be full, and there won't be any more
> > > places the latrines can be rotated to.
> > 
> > Why, shit is actually pretty compact. usually with latrines, the liquid
> > filtrates out, and the compressed shit does not take too much space.
> > 
> > If you dig a deep enough hole (2-3 yards) it should last for a long,
> > long time. I estimate that a human being produces about 1/2 to 1lb
> > of hard waste per day, some are more full of it, some less. Let's settle
> > on one lb per day.
> > 
> > Let's see, a hole that is 5 yards wide, 3 yards deep, and, say, 2 yards
> > wide, is about 30 cubic yards. It could take about 40 tons of hard
> > compressed waste, that is, 80 thousand man-days of shitting can be
> > compressed in it.
> > 
> > You definitely need some heavy machinery to dig this kind of hole
> > (and then you have to build smoe kind of frame over it to prevent people
> > from falling into it if it collapses), but it is not hard and can even
> > be done in a catastrophic scenario.
> > 
> > That's a lot!!! Let's see,a high rise building with 50 floors and 10
> > apartments in each floor, that's about 1200 people. The latrine would
> > last them what, about sixty days! And then they can dig another one.
> 
> This assumes that we can compress it this much, which assumes that we
> have sufficient machinery.  It further assumes that we will be able to
> ignore the "wet" component of human waste.  You can't just pour it down
> the drains.

No, the wet component filtrates out of the hole, into the soil.

Compression happens automaitcally.

> Next, we should realize that these latrines are themselves not going to
> be particularly sanitary, and it would be most unwise to use them for
> any extended period of time.  Hell, even *with* flush toilets, I've seen
> people squatting down in subway stations to take a leak not more than 5
> feet from the restroom.

Yeah, they are not too sanitary, but it is livable.

I refer you to the book "Where there is no doctor" that talks
about it. (a great book, all in all)

> Further, we should realize that for the above reason, people are not
> going to be particularly motivated to use these latrines.  After all,
> nobody wants to hold it for a long time while they wait in line to take
> a leak, just for the privilege of relieving themselves in disease
> central.  You're going to see shit in the street in any case.

I suspect that this will not be happening a lot in the cleaner
parts of the city.

> Finally, even if we dig these holes, (and they're *going* to be bigger
> than what you describe, as they must contain liquid, as well as solid

liquid disspiates.

> waste), we're going to end up messing up the roads something fierce. 
> Big cities *need* roads to transport life-critical items.  If we dig
> them up, we're in even worse trouble.
> 
> > > Then we're back to doing it in the open.  Less concentrated cities might
> > > last a while longer, but not much longer.  There's no getting around it,
> > > we *need* working sewer systems to have modern cities.  Otherwise, the
> > > cities die.
> > 
> > Not in the short run. They could survive for a while.
> > 
> >         - Igor.
> 
> In the *very* short run.  Like, say, a few weeks.  That is if the food
> doesn't stop coming in first --then things finish up a bit sooner.

Well, if you have no food, you make no shit.

	- Igor.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 05:20:43 +0800
To: mah248@nyu.edu (Michael Hohensee)
Subject: Re: y2k/gary north delusions
In-Reply-To: <366A26C2.30D6892E@nyu.edu>
Message-ID: <199812062044.OAA12076@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Michael Hohensee wrote:
> 
> 
> William H. Geiger III wrote:
> > 
> > In <36694C23.B4CB9509@nyu.edu>, on 12/05/98
> >    at 10:07 AM, Michael Hohensee  said:
> > 
> > >Then we're back to doing it in the open.  Less concentrated cities might
> > >last a while longer, but not much longer.  There's no getting around it,
> > >we *need* working sewer systems to have modern cities.  Otherwise, the
> > >cities die.
> > 
> > And you say this as if it is a bad thing.
> > 
> 
> Well it is, sorta.  I've got the misfortune to live in NYC, as do many
> many many other people.  People who (like me) aren't particularly
> interested in dying of disease and/or starvation.  If the "shit hits the
> fan", we're in for a serious mess, in any event. :/

Well, you've made a conscious choice, being fully aware of ramifications.

	- Igor.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 05:40:21 +0800
To: Michael Hohensee 
Subject: Re: y2k/gary north delusions
In-Reply-To: <366A26C2.30D6892E@nyu.edu>
Message-ID: <199812062023.PAA001.79@whgiii>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



In <366A26C2.30D6892E@nyu.edu>, on 12/06/98 
   at 01:40 AM, Michael Hohensee  said:

>William H. Geiger III wrote:
>> 
>> In <36694C23.B4CB9509@nyu.edu>, on 12/05/98
>>    at 10:07 AM, Michael Hohensee  said:
>> 
>> >Then we're back to doing it in the open.  Less concentrated cities might
>> >last a while longer, but not much longer.  There's no getting around it,
>> >we *need* working sewer systems to have modern cities.  Otherwise, the
>> >cities die.
>> 
>> And you say this as if it is a bad thing.
>> 

>Well it is, sorta.  I've got the misfortune to live in NYC, as do many
>many many other people.  People who (like me) aren't particularly
>interested in dying of disease and/or starvation.  If the "shit hits the
>fan", we're in for a serious mess, in any event. :/

It is your choice to live in the cesspool know as NYC. I am originally
from Chicago, I got the hell out of there the 1st chance I got and have
never looked back.

Large metropolitan complexes are obsolete and their problems greatly
outweigh their benefits. I am a land owner and *like* owning land, I enjoy
having grass and trees, streams to fish and swim in, not living in a cage
with my neighbors on the other side of a paper thin wall. I have enough
land that I could plow it up and do subsistence farming to survive if the
collapse ever comes (subsidized with fishing and hunting).

Why anyone would want to live like a rat is beyond me.

-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
---------------------------------------------------------------





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 08:29:49 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: tyranny of corporations
Message-ID: <199812062342.PAA05825@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




------- Forwarded Message
Date: Sun, 06 Dec 1998 16:11:08 -0700
From: Robert Weissman 
To: Multiple recipients of list CORP-FOCUS 
Subject: corporation nation

Exxon merges with Mobil. Citicorp marries Travelers. Daimler Benz gobbles
up Chrysler. BankAmerica takes over NationsBank. WorldCom eats MCI.

Corporations are getting bigger and bigger, and their influence over our
lives continues to grow. America is in an era of corporate ascendancy, the
likes of which we haven't seen since the Gilded Age.

Charles Derber, a professor of sociology at Boston College, believes that,
contrary to the lessons our civics teacher taught us, it is undemocratic
corporations, not governments, that are dominating and controlling
society.

In his most recent book, Corporation Nation (St. Martin's Press, 1998),
Derber argues that the consequence of the growing power of giant corporate
multinationals is increased disparity in wealth, rampant downsizing and
million dollar CEOs making billion dollar decisions with little regard for
average American.

A couple of years ago, Derber wrote The Wilding of America (St. Martin's
Press, 1996) in which he argued that the American Dream had transmuted
into a semi-criminal, semi-violent virus that is afflicting large parts of
the elites of the country.

That book tried to call attention to the extent to which violent behavior
could be understood as a product of oversocialization.

"The problem was not that they had been underexposed to American values,
but that they could not buffer themselves from those values," Derber told
us. "They had lost the ability to constrain any kind of anti-social
behavior -- because of obsessions with success -- the American Dream."

By anti-social behavior, Derber means the epitome of Reaganism -- "a kind
of warping of the more healthy forms of individualism in our culture into
a hyperindividualism in which people asserted their own interests without
regard to its impact on others."

At the time, Derber was interviewed on a Geraldo show about paid assassins
- - -- people who killed for money.

"It was scary to be around young people who confessed to killing for
relatively small amounts of money -- a few thousand dollars," Derber said.
"They said things like -- 'you have to understand, this is just a
business, everybody has to make money.' I pointed out on the show that
this was the language that business usually uses."

At the same time, Newsweek ran a cover story titled "Corporate Killers."
On the cover, Newsweek ran the mug shots of four CEOs who had downsized in
profitable periods and upped their own salaries.

"These corporate executives tended to use the same language as the paid
assassins on the Geraldo show, 'I feel fine about this because I'm just
doing what the market requires,'" Derber explains. "I develop an analogy
between paid assassins on the street and those in the suites. In the most
general sense, these corporate executives are paid hitmen who use very
much the same language and rationalization. I argue that corporations are
exemplifying a form of anti-social behavior which is undermining a great
deal of the social fabric and civilized values that we would hope to
sustain."

With the hitmen parallel fresh in his mind, Derber began writing
Corporation Nation. In it, Derber points to the parallels between today
and the age of the robber barons 100 years ago -- the wave of corporate
mergers, the widening gulf between rich and poor (Bill Gates' net worth
(well over $50 billion) is more than that of the bottom 100 million
Americans), the enormous influence of corporations over democratic
institutions, both major parties bought off by big business, and a
Democratic President closely aligned with big business (Grover Cleveland
then, Bill Clinton today).

One big difference between then and now: back then, a real grassroots
populist movement rose up to challenge corporate power, though it did not
succeed in attaining its core goals.

Today, while there are many isolated movements challenging individual
corporate crimes, there is no mass movement attacking the corporation as
the cause of the wealth disparity, destruction of the environment, and all
the many other corporate driven ills afflicting society.

Derber, a professor of sociology at Boston College, says that when he asks
his students, "Have you ever thought about the question of whether
corporations in general have too much power," they uniformly say they have
never had that question raised.

Derber says that one good way to again build a populist movement to attack
corporate power is to study the language and tactics of the populists of
100 years ago. He has, and he makes clear in his book that the original
conception of the corporation was one of a public -- not private --
entity.

We the people created the corporation to build roads, and bridges, and
deliver the goods. If the corporation didn't do as we said, we yanked
their charter.

The corporate lawyers quickly got their hands around that idea, smashed
it, and replaced it with the current conception of the corporation, a
private person under the law, with the rights and privileges of any other
living and breathing citizen.

Thus, a quick transformation from "we decide" to "they decide."

Derber is a bit too modest to say it, so we will: perhaps the best way to
rebuild a strong, vibrant and populist movement is to get this book into
the hands of people who care about democracy. The corporations have us on
the run, but we should pause for a moment or two, find a quiet place, and
read this book.

Russell Mokhiber is editor of the Washington, D.C.-based Corporate Crime
Reporter. Robert Weissman is editor of the Washington, D.C.-based
Multinational Monitor.

(c) Russell Mokhiber and Robert Weissman

Focus on the Corporation is a weekly column written by Russell Mokhiber
and Robert Weissman. Please feel free to forward the column to friends or
repost the column on other lists. If you would like to post the column on
a web site or publish it in print format, we ask that you first contact us
(russell@essential.org or rob@essential.org).

Focus on the Corporation is distributed to individuals on the listserve
corp-focus@essential.org. To subscribe to corp-focus, send an e-mail
message to listproc@essential.org with the following all in one line:

subscribe corp-focus  (no period).

Focus on the Corporation columns are posted on the Multinational Monitor
web site .

Postings on corp-focus are limited to the columns. If you would like to
comment on the columns, send a message to russell@essential.org or
rob@essential.org.





- - ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01BE20F3.6E8982C0--


- - --------------81265CC28DD038A0DC2CB928--


- ------- End of Forwarded Message


------- End of Forwarded Message




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Wei Dai 
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 08:23:22 +0800
To: Adam Back 
Message-ID: <19981206154903.B26047@eskimo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Sun, Dec 06, 1998 at 12:08:04AM +0000, Adam Back wrote:
> (1) Inflation -- the cost of hardware to compute a given collision
> falls in line with Moores law.  Perhaps one could get around this by
> defining a b-money unit to require more computational effort over
> time.  Say define 1 b-money unit to be the computational effort of 1
> months compute on the most efficient hardware that can be bought for
> $1000 at current prices and state of hardware.

Actually this problem has already been accounted for in the protocol. The
amount of b-money you create when you burn some CPU time depends on the
relative cost of CPU time verses a standard basket of goods. As the cost
of computation falls relative to that basket, the amount of CPU time
needed to create a unit of b-money automaticly rises. So the result is
that there should be no inflation with b-money, unless the b-money economy
shrinks or the velocity of b-money increases (because it's not possible to
reduce the b-money money supply). 

> (3) Linkability -- although the participants are anonymous, their
> transactions are linkable and so participants are pseudonymous in
> b-money (linkable anonymity being pseudonymity).  This is inherent
> because of the need to broadcast transactions to ensure the open book
> entry is updated.
> 
> (4) You can get money in -- by buying hardware -- but it will cost
> different people different amounts.  If I am using an existing general
> purpose workstation my units will cost more than if I buy custom
> hardware.  Not so bad a problem, just view this as an economy of
> scale, or a bulk discount.
> 
> (5) Getting money in by buying hardware works, but people don't want
> the inconvenience of buying custom hardware, they would rather just
> buy b-money for force-monopoly backed money (national currencies).  If
> we setup a mint which made it it's business to buy up-to-date custom
> hardware it would be difficult to buy b-money anonymously because the
> pseudonym would reveal his identity by the use of traceable payment
> systems (credit card, cheque, wire transfer, etc).
> 
> (6) Getting money out is difficult also.  The pseudonymous b-money
> user would find it difficult to obtain force-monopoly money without
> revealing his identity.

Problems 3-6 can be solved with my payment-mix idea. This is simply a
Chaumian mint where people buy blinded ecash with b-money and then sell it
back a little later under a different pseudonym. Presto your b-money is no
longer linkable. The nice thing about this mint is that you don't have to
trust it very much since it should have very few outstanding obligations
at any one time. What obligations it does have of course can be backed
with b-money.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Eric Cordian 
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 07:00:45 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Aharonov-Bohm Effect
In-Reply-To: <199812061706.LAA29544@wire.insync.net>
Message-ID: <199812062227.QAA30068@wire.insync.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Here's a reference to a conference session I just found on the Web.
The presenters claim that prior demonstrations of the A-B effect were
bogus, produced by the magnetic field of the moving particle
interacting directly with the adjacent magnetic field.
 
It also states that no evidence of a magnetic vector potential acting
on a particle in the absence of a magnetic field has ever been
demonstrated.
 
Any comments?
 
-----
 
Session K19 - Magnetic Modeling II.
MIXED session, Wednesday afternoon, March 19
Room 2206, Conv. Center
 
[K19.04] Ehrenberg-Siday-Aharonov-Bohm (ESAB) Effect Has Not Been Observed
 
Gordon R. Freeman, Larry D. Coulson (University of Alberta)
 
The beautiful results from two types of experiment that were claimed
to confirm the existence of the (misnamed) Aharonov-Bohm Effect, with
coherent electrons in split beams (Tonomura amp; co.) and split
conductors (Webb amp; co.), are explained quantitatively by the energy
of interaction of the magnetic field produced by the moving electrons
with the magnetic flux of the adjacent applied field. The electron
velocities (and phases) change by opposite amounts in the two parts of
the split beam, and de Broglie wave interference occurs in the
rejoined beam. No effect of a magnetic vector potential in the absence
of a magnetic field has been demonstrated, so the ESAB Effect has not
been demonstrated to exist.

-- 
Sponsor the DES Analytic Crack Project
http://www.cyberspace.org/~enoch/crakfaq.html




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Joel O'Connor" 
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 09:06:39 +0800
To: HyperReal-Anon 
Subject: Re: What was the quid pro quo for Wassenaar countries?
Message-ID: <19981207003454.25653.rocketmail@send104.yahoomail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



As Karl Marx said also, "Democracy is a slow form of communism." 
That's why the forfathers decided to make us a republic, something
many have forgotten.  




---HyperReal-Anon  wrote:
>
> "Phillip Hallam-Baker"  writes
> 
>    John Gilmore may be right, but remember folks that in Europe we
>    have this thing the Greeks invented called democracy. One of the
>    ideas of democracy is that decisions are not made in secret closed
>    meetings.
> 
> Yes, and people democratically demand government enforcement of the
> majority will, something made more difficult if the subjects have
> strong cryptography.
> 
> As Donn Parker observed several years ago, strong cryptography is
> inconsistent with democracy.  (Published in Scientific American ---
> reference on request.)
> 
> John Gilmore  writes
> 
>    Some countries actually seem to care what their citizens think
>    about their crypto laws, unlike the shining example of democracy,
>    the USSA.  And when we educate the citizens, they tend to make the
>    right choices.  Let's keep trying.
> 
> But don't educate them too much, or they will understand that
> cryptography can set people free, and if people were free there would
> be no political government, and if there were no political government
> their social security checks would stop coming, along with all their
> other government ``benefits''.
> 
> 

==
Ogre bounces like sonar. . .Peace.
                  Ogre

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: pilgrim@laguna.com.mx
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 20:21:51 +0800
To: Ryan Lackey 
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981206185851.007b03f0@laguna-01.laguna.com.mx>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 04:48 PM 12/05/1998 -0400, Ryan Lackey wrote:
At 04:48 PM 12/05/1998 -0400, you wrote:

>When I was working on Eternity DDS stuff, I basically came to the same
>conclusion as Adam -- without anonymous bearer cash, you can't do
>a workable eternity implementation.

Without abs you can't get a workable freedom implementation.

[...]

>As far as I can tell, having a good Eternity implementation is still
>blocked on getting a reasonable electronic cash system.  There are
>some people in Anguilla...

...and elsewhere.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Antonomasia 
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 04:09:37 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Key changes at notatla
Message-ID: <199812061934.TAA02414@notatla.demon.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1



New mix keys at notatla already in use.
Old ones expire 21Dec1998.


mccain mccain@notatla.demon.co.uk 49894e1cc7629bbb54a3b5f98ba6f6d6 2.0.4b41 MC

- -----Begin Mix Key-----
49894e1cc7629bbb54a3b5f98ba6f6d6
258
AASe8KR46cRA75Jk4YMcE32gpS1uqAveFpRxPVg7
qATY4aPIyVM40QHa/OrHdVc8twmKMNemcdZNCpdb
EDCtaVXLalJ7njbiLs8NMAEVP7WxMQP+1swjvHpR
qP1ikuvy89iNpTbDtl9uf11PNeXiWclrCyFkvS6m
4cXFPskXoa4xWQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAQAB
- -----End Mix Key-----


teatwo teatwo@notatla.demon.co.uk 4568791f20d5e004225c78e04625bca4 2.0.4b41 MC

- -----Begin Mix Key-----
4568791f20d5e004225c78e04625bca4
258
AATVHyCqv2SGgaEbY0HVnBONNsSQwElFCdvSyxhq
cGL4FZ5A1LGBAGNN+aHnfw0X8hvNsFB7EcmBsZ1v
fUt64xRG5gy2+A3rMlad36iZfqrNBKncGh+Y/uEx
nb+hTyANZNlHsUdAfo+lozx0xoB070e6K3rkgxDG
GytOW9VjDTVR3QAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAQAB
- -----End Mix Key-----


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP 5.0i
Charset: noconv

iQA/AwUBNmrcCTROc55Xv6voEQIs4ACeOat7f/0Kn5gLPazrp6rd+gGgsdEAn0nJ
4jhmxQQTvZWFg7d+BxM7WHHR
=pz5z
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--
##############################################################
# Antonomasia   ant@notatla.demon.co.uk                      #
# See http://www.notatla.demon.co.uk/                        #
##############################################################




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Stu Green 
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 04:13:48 +0800
To: alg 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Subject: The Open Source Initiative needs your help
From: "Eric S. Raymond" 
Date: Thu,  3 Dec 1998 19:48:39 GMT
Approved: linux-announce@news.ornl.gov (Mikko Rauhala)
Followup-To: comp.os.linux.misc
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.announce
Old-Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 23:19:37 -0500
Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs
Xref: cyclone.swbell.net comp.os.linux.announce:3567

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----


The Open Source Initiative needs your help.

The Open Source certification mark is a valuable tool for turning on
everybody interest in software on to our way of doing things.  But for
it to keep working, we have to make sure it doesn't get legally diluted.
(This is a legal requirement; if we don't enforce the mark, we lose it.)

We're a handful of unpaid volunteers.  There are a lot of potential 
diluters out there.  We need you to help us keep an eye on them.

If you see the term `Open Source' (or even the lower-case
`open-source') being used to describe software with distribution
conditions that don't fit the Open Source Definition, please
inform us at 

	mark-misuse@opensource.org

All the misuses we've seen so far are accidental.  We gently set those
people straight.  In the process, we try to educate them and
bring them fully into the open-source community.  If there is
ever deliberate or malicious abuse, we will be ready to do what
is necessary on behalf of the community.

Thanks in advance.
- -- 
		Eric S. Raymond

The American Republic will endure, until politicians realize they can
bribe the people with their own money.
	-- Alexis de Tocqueville



- -- 
This article has been digitally signed by the moderator, using PGP.
http://www.iki.fi/mjr/cola-public-key.asc has PGP key for validating signature.
Send submissions for comp.os.linux.announce to: linux-announce@news.ornl.gov
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Blanc" 
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 12:18:37 +0800
To: 
Subject: RE: tyranny of corporations
In-Reply-To: <199812062342.PAA05825@netcom13.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <000301be2196$63893520$838195cf@blanc>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>From Vladimir Z. Nurvis, Token Cpunk Socialist:

[quoting Robert Weissman]
: Derber is a bit too modest to say it, so we will: perhaps the 
: best way to rebuild a strong, vibrant and populist movement is to get 
: this book into the hands of people who care about democracy. The 
: corporations have us on the run, but we should pause for a moment
: or two, find a quiet place, and read this book.
...........................................


The corporations have us on the run, but we should pause for a moment
or two, find a quiet place, and start our own Virtual Company.


   ..
Blanc 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Steve Schear 
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 13:08:55 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: tyranny of corporations (was: Corporate Nations)
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/enriched

 The hitman image certainly rings true for some top execs I've met. I  recall a session with a corporate sociologist many years ago (the company was going through one of those team-building bullshit affairs). I had completed a psychological profile tests and we were reviewing the results. She was given to occasional black humor and on this particular occasion told me she has some good news and some bad news, asking which I prefered hearing first. I selected the good news, whereupon she said that my profile was an exact match with those who reach the highest levels of the corporate world. Then the bad news, its also the profile of a master criminal. I kid you not.

As to hyperindividualism, Robert Bork covered this topic in his recent book Slouching Toward Gamorah. In it he identified two idiological diseases infecting America: radical equality and radical egalitarianism (i.e., hyperindividualism). Both, in his opinion, are a result of a warped evolution of 20th Century liberalism.

Since many in our society seek to emulate these hitmen (i.e., get a piece of the rock at any cost) and have no more scruples themselves than those to whom they aspire, anonymous betting pools could harness the more extreme members in a populist fashion to counterbalance our new age robber barrons and politicians. 

The solution to hyperindividualism isn't regulation (which can be blunted or co-opted by those with the bucks) but allowing those below to profitably advance at the expense of those at the top. Dynamic equilibrium in a new marketplace. Sort of like the way Klingons get field rank advancements.

--Steve



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Alan Olsen 
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 13:13:23 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: At a Comic Shop near you...
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981206205339.039facd0@clueserver.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



This may or may not be of interest...

Spy v.s. Spy action figures are now available!  There is a black spy and a
white spy (sorry, no grey spy).  Each comes with lots of gadgets (knives,
blackjacks, saws and a bomb).  Each spy has "bomb throwing action".

They are distributed through comic shops at the moment.  They sold out
pretty quick where I got mine, so you will not want to wait if you want one.

---
|      Bill Clinton - Bringing back the Sixties one Nixon at a time!     |
|"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmermann unites all| Disclaimer:         |
| mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!"  | Ignore the man      |
|                                                  | behind the keyboard.|
|         http://www.ctrl-alt-del.com/~alan/       |alan@ctrl-alt-del.com|




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Secret Squirrel 
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 06:00:34 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: SHANGHAI ENTREPRENEUR TRIED IN CHINA
Message-ID: <6a14bed1b17c17c83c7e0f7ade41d93e@anonymous>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



The Chinese government has put 30-year-old Shanghai computer 
software businessman Lin Hai on trial for "inciting the 
overthrow of state power" by providing 30,000 e-mail addresses 
to a U.S. Internet magazine called "Big Reference" published by 
Chinese dissidents.  Chinese authorities closed the four-hour 
trial for what it said were "national security" reasons, and 
"persuaded" one member of Lin's legal team not to attend the 
trial.  Lin's wife Xu Hong, who was questioned by the police 
for six hours, has indicated that Lin's lawyer "said he didn't 
have a very good feeling -- that things won't be good for Lin 
and he will probably be found guilty."  
(Washington Post 5 Dec 98)

#!/usr/local/bin/perl -0777-- -export-a-crypto-system-sig -RC4-3-lines-PERL
@k=unpack('C*',pack('H*',shift));for(@t=@s=0..255){$y=($k[$_%@k]+$s[$x=$_
]+$y)%256;&S}$x=$y=0;for(unpack('C*',<>)){$x++;$y=($s[$x%=256]+$y)%256;
&S;print pack(C,$_^=$s[($s[$x]+$s[$y])%256])}sub S{@s[$x,$y]=@s[$y,$x]}




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Secret Squirrel 
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 06:12:06 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: MITNICK TRIAL POSTPONED AGAIN
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



The long-awaited trial of Kevin Mitnick, the accused computer 
hacker indicted on 25 counts of "stealing, copying, and 
misappropriating proprietary computer software" from a number 
of cellular and computer companies, has been postponed until 
April 20 after Mitnick's lawyer asked for more time to prepare 
his case.  The trial was slated to begin on January 19.  Mitnick 
has been in jail in Los Angeles awaiting trial since February 
1995. 

- Los Angeles Times 4 Dec 98



#!/usr/local/bin/perl -0777-- -export-a-crypto-system-sig -RC4-3-lines-PERL
@k=unpack('C*',pack('H*',shift));for(@t=@s=0..255){$y=($k[$_%@k]+$s[$x=$_
]+$y)%256;&S}$x=$y=0;for(unpack('C*',<>)){$x++;$y=($s[$x%=256]+$y)%256;
&S;print pack(C,$_^=$s[($s[$x]+$s[$y])%256])}sub S{@s[$x,$y]=@s[$y,$x]}




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous n@o.p
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 05:57:44 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Crypto deterrents
Message-ID: <199812062121.WAA24707@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



White men traded as 'sex slaves' of black prisoners
By Fergal Keane, in Illinois


WHITE male prisoners in American jails are being "sold as sex slaves" by
black fellow inmates for money, tobacco, drugs and alcohol, according to
campaigners who are urging action to end widespread homosexual rape
behind bars.

Damaging claims of complicity by prison guards are also emerging. Five
wardens at a Californian maximum security jail are facing charges
relating to the rape of an inmate by a notorious sexual predator. The
wardens allegedly forced a troublesome prisoner to share a cell with a
black gang leader, who was rewarded with extra food and clothes for
imposing "discipline" on the man.

According to the campaigners, the sex attacks often carry ugly racial
overtones, with many white prisoners claiming that they were sexually
abused after being placed in cells with black inmates. Most victims are
too scared to complain, it is claimed, and those that do say they have
been ignored by the authorities. The scale of the scandal has been
uncovered by the pressure group Human Rights Watch, which next year will
publish a report documenting the "staggering prevalence" of prison rape.

The situation is not just provoking concern among civil liberties
groups. In the state of Illinois, a prominent conservative figure,
Republican legislator Cal Skinner, is also pushing for tougher
government action. He claims that many of the rape victims have been
infected with the HIV virus and that American prisons are becoming a
breeding ground for Aids.

Mr Skinner said: "There are sexual slaves in too many prisons. People
are being given a death sentence." He wants to see the mandatory Aids
testing of all prisoners with the segregation of those found to be HIV
positive. He believes it is one of the few ways of protecting vulnerable
inmates from the potentially fatal effect of prison rape.

The renewed concern over rape in prisons has come too late for Michael
Blucker, 29, a white man from Crystal Lake in Illinois, who was
repeatedly gang-raped while serving a sentence for burglary. Blucker's
ordeal is almost too horrific to contemplate: he was forced to become a
sex slave to black prisoners at Menard State Penitentiary in Illinois.
Prison rape is not confined to white victims but they are particularly
vulnerable as black gang members make up such a large part of the
American prison population.

Blucker said: "I was the only white man in a gallery [wing] of more than
100 prisoners. Most of the guys were in for very serious crimes; they
were people who weren't going to be getting out of there any time in the
next 30 years." The first attack came when Blucker had been in jail just
two weeks. He was set upon by three black prisoners, stripped, beaten
and raped.

"They would have killed me if I had refused. Killing means nothing to
these people," he said. Once it became known that he had been raped,
Blucker's life became even more of a nightmare. In the violent world of
American prisons, an inmate who "allows" himself to be raped is regarded
as fair game for every other inmate and is used as a sex slave, normally
under the direction of a senior gang leader.

In Blucker's case, one of the black prisoners sold him to other inmates
on a daily basis. "He would physically threaten me and threaten to have
harm done to my wife outside prison. Every day, I would be sold as a sex
object while he was given money and cigarettes and marijuana and alcohol
in return." When the threats of violence did not cow Blucker, his
tormentor would beat him into submission.

While filming in Butner prison in North Carolina, I met Ivory Rhodes, a
black prisoner, who was attacked within days of being placed in the cell
of a known rapist. The pattern he described was almost exactly the same
as that experienced by Blucker. A violent attack and the threat of death
followed by brutal rape. Rhodes's solution was to try to spend long
periods in solitary confinement, a deprivation he preferred to risking
his life in the main cells.

Rhodes managed to avoid being raped again, but whenever he was
transferred from one prison to another, the stigma of "rape victim" went
with him. After his rape, Rhodes never moved out of his cell without
carrying a knife. He described a world in which any weakness is preyed
upon by the tougher and older inmates. The young, the first-time
offenders, the middle class are especially vulnerable to attack.

Blucker said: "There are people who say that if somebody attacked them
in prison they would kill themselves or kill other people. That is bull.
It just doesn't happen that way."

What was almost certainly his worst experience occurred in the showers
when he was set upon by a large gang of prisoners. "They pulled bricks
out of the wall and they hit me in the nose and the eye and then on the
back of the head, which knocked me out." Then he was repeatedly raped.
"I couldn't tell you if it was one, three, 10 or 15 people. All I know
is that I felt very unwell."

At first, Blucker said, he was too frightened to report the rapes for
fear of being killed by the other inmates, but after the shower incident
he spoke to prison officials. The result, he claimed, was indifference.
"I spoke to officers and medical people and no one believed me."

Blucker subsequently took a court action against several prison guards
and the prison psychiatrist but was unable to prove his claims. What is
not disputed is that he needed extensive surgery for injuries sustained
in the attack and that while in prison he contracted the HIV virus.

Blucker was eventually transferred from Menard after lobbying a local
politician. Now a free man, he is looking for a job and is actively
involved in his church. God, he says, will save him from Aids.

Fergal Keane is a BBC Special Correspondent




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bennett Haselton 
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 14:06:40 +0800
To: cypherpunks@sirius.infonex.com
Subject: DSA for encryption
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981206222557.00913960@h.mail.vanderbilt.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Hi,

	I'm working on an enhancement to a Web-based program that allows you to
circumvent proxy server censorship by sending a request for a Web page to a
computer in the outside world that is not blocked by the proxy, and having
that computer re-send a copy of the banned page back to you.

	The current version of the software, written by Brian Ristuccia this past
summer, is at
	http://ians.ml.org:8801

where you type a URL into the form, submit it, and the resulting page has a
URL like:
	http://ians.ml.org:8801/aHR0cDovL3d3dy55YWhvby5jb20=
instead of
	http://anon.free.anonymizer.com/http://www.yahoo.com/
which is what Anonymizer gives you, which makes it obvious what you were
looking at to anyone who looks through the proxy server logs.

	Of course, any manufacturer of Internet censorship proxy server software
could easily add ians.ml.org to their list of blocked sites (as they have
all already done with Anonymizer), so the idea would be for people to get
their friends to set up port-forwarding programs on computers that were not
blocked by the censoring proxy, and those could be set up to relay requests
between the IANS server and the computer behind the proxy server.

	The general outline for this scheme is at
		http://www.peacefire.org/bypass/Proxy/
and the current version of IANS ("Internet Alternate Name Space") is part
of the way towards implementing this (theoretically) bulletproof solution.

The major pending improvements to the IANS software are (1) the URL is not
truly encrypted; the garbled characters in the URL above just represent
some basic scrambling to evade detection by people who sweep their proxy
server log files for keywords, (2) even if the URL were really encrypted,
when you first fill out the form, the URL is submitted to IANS in the
clear, so it could be detected by any censoring proxy server that logs data
submitted by GET or POST.  One Internet censorship proxy server called
SmartFilter already does this and blocks you from submitting *any* banned
URL's using GET or POST, so IANS does not work with SmartFilter, for example.

I am working on a JavaScript form that could be used on the client side to
solve this problem.  We would like to use DSA to encrypt the requests sent
using IANS, since I've heard DSA can be used for encryption without
royalties, unlike, for example, RSA.

Does anybody know of a Web page that explains how the DSA algorithm can be
used for encryption, as opposed to message signing and authentication?  I
found a page at
http://www1.shore.net/~ws/Extras/Security-Notes/lectures/authent.html

that describes the DSA algorithm for signature verification.  I have looked
very hard but have been unable to find a page about how to use DSA for
encryption.  Can anyone help?

I know there is software like GNU Privacy Guard that implements DSA for
encryption, but the source code is 3 megabytes and I was hoping there was a
page that explains the process more simply than that.

	-Bennett

bennett@peacefire.org    (615) 421 5432    http://www.peacefire.org




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Blanc" 
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 15:36:15 +0800
To: 
Subject: RE: tyranny of corporations (was: Corporate Nations)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <000601be21b0$b087c0c0$838195cf@blanc>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From 
Steve Schear:
 
The solution to hyperindividualism isn't 
regulation (which can be blunted or co-opted by those with the bucks) but 
allowing those below to profitably advance at the expense of those at the top. 
Dynamic equilibrium in a new marketplace. Sort of like the way Klingons get 
field rank advancements.
.................................
 
 
What 
do you mean, Steve, "at the expense of those at the top"?   
(I'm not aware of how the Klingons get their field rank 
advancements).
 
Also, 
this image of hyperindividualism doesn't seem right.  I would think such an 
extreme degree of individualism would exclude much involvement with others, 
meaning they could not run corporations, because for a business to exist 
requires involvement in providing a service/product to the largest numbers of 
the population as possible,  and they can only do this if this large mass 
of people see the value of, and accept, in preference to the offerings of the 
competition, what that particular corporation offers.  
 
I 
imagine a hyperindividual more as an independent contractor working 
"alone".
   ..Blanc 


From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Hohensee 
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 09:40:58 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: y2k/gary north delusions
In-Reply-To: <199812062023.PAA001.79@whgiii>
Message-ID: <366B17BF.963FFEA@sparta.mainstream.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



"William H. Geiger III" wrote:
>
> Why anyone would want to live like a rat is beyond me.
> 

And me.  Sadly, I have little choice, as I'm stuck with attending NYU
for the present.  That shouldn't be a problem soon, assuming I succeed
in transferring to a nicer place.

Michael Hohensee





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 05:01:38 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Wassenaar Encryption Agreement
Message-ID: <7fed2e22ddfc4bef12e88799314a479f@anonymous>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



The United States and 32 other nations that belong to a group 
called the Wassenaar Arrangement, which coordinates export 
policies for technologies that have both civilian and military 
use, have signed an agreement restricting exports of encryption 
technology from their countries.  The Clinton administration, 
which has already imposed such controls in this country, says 
the agreement will help American companies compete on a more 
equal footing with their counterparts abroad.  Privacy 
organizations are critical of the agreement, and a counsel for 
the advocacy group Americans for Computer Privacy says there 
will still be enormous differences in how the countries put the 
agreement into practice.  


(Washington Post 4 Dec 98)


#!/usr/local/bin/perl -0777-- -export-a-crypto-system-sig -RC4-3-lines-PERL
@k=unpack('C*',pack('H*',shift));for(@t=@s=0..255){$y=($k[$_%@k]+$s[$x=$_
]+$y)%256;&S}$x=$y=0;for(unpack('C*',<>)){$x++;$y=($s[$x%=256]+$y)%256;
&S;print pack(C,$_^=$s[($s[$x]+$s[$y])%256])}sub S{@s[$x,$y]=@s[$y,$x]}




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 00:48:14 +0800
To: dcsb@ai.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Commerce Hacked?
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 23:14:13 -0500 (EST)
From: Somebody
To: Robert Hettinga 
Subject: Re: Commerce Hacked?
Mime-Version: 1.0



Looks like he [Aaron] has been successful. No one is talking about the
extortive
quality of sending out the commerce minister to argue for crypto controls.
Why don't they send an air force general who giggles about radiated cities
between bites of rumaki.



--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 23:47:49 +0800
To: abd@CDT.ORG
Subject: US attorney notified
Message-ID: <366BE794.2F54@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Michell was notified that we are in the process of initiating
legal action to get the lien removed.

Let's hope she has the sense to do what we ask.

This matter should have been settled.  It is getting WORSE.



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 22:45:23 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: What was the quid pro quo for Wassenaar countries? (fwd)
Message-ID: <199812071414.IAA04296@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 08:21:21 -0500
> From: John Young 
> Subject: Re: What was the quid pro quo for Wassenaar countries?

> More interesting to Americans, maybe, is that there also appears to be
> an effort to boost domestic militia, particularly the religious brand, as the
> homefront Bin Laden. The rise of religion-based terrorism is explored at
> length in Bruce Hoffman's recent "Inside Terrorism." Hoffman claims that
> religious terrorists may be the worst enemies ever, for they do not 
> believe in political compromise: they want to kill every single opponent,
> and have no reservations about using WMD.

5,000 years of human history bears this thesis out.

> If this theory is correct (and Hoffman has worked with RAND for years on
> the issue) then the menace of terrorism is worse than that hawked during
> the Cold War. The enemy is not distant, not even ICBM seconds away,
> but rather it lives amongst us, it's our neighbors readying Armageddon not
> merely a familiar commie takeover. 

This is also their biggest weakness. It's one reason the US has never been
host to a large movement in the 20th century, outside the racist,
anti-communist, and pro-lifers (and the first two are pretty much dead)
because your neighbor probably doesn't go to the same church you do, probably
not from the same part of the country. The chances of an individual opening
up to their neighbor and getting a warm reception for bombing someplace is
pretty low.

Realisticaly, the only reason the pro-lifers get as warm a reception as they
do is so many people see it as hypocritical. It's ok to kill a killer is
their thinking, it is after all a form of pre-partum assissted self-defence.

> Hoffman says to expect more OKCs around the globe. To be sure, that's
> his business to say that.

Considering the rate at which they occur now there is zero rational reason
to believe these groups will cease any time in the near future.


    ____________________________________________________________________

           If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me
           in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation,
           it is: bullying
                                                Howard Zinn

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 22:03:52 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: Re: What was the quid pro quo for Wassenaar countries?
In-Reply-To: <91301833500932@cs26.cs.auckland.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <199812071331.IAA23674@smtp2.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Peter Gutmann may be close to the truth about Echelon's role
in the Wassenaar changes.

The NYT reports today that the US is proposing to NATO a
combined intelligence center to combat use of Weapons of Mass
Destruction by rogue states and non-state terrorists like Usama
Bin Laden.

There is some dissent among the Europeans over the US's
attempt to frighten the populace with a new worldwide menace
to replace the boogies of the Cold War.

Still, it appears that intelligence on the threat of terrorist use of 
WMD is being whispered in ears of those holding out for
privacy protection. And a correlative threat of strong encryption
is surely part of those scenarios.

As in the US, it's probable that domestic restrictions on strong
crypto are being advanced to combat domestic terrorism in countries
around the world, following the precedent set during the Cold War,
which, as we all know was the evil parent of Wassenaar's predecessor
COCOM.

GAO put out a report (GGD-99-7) a few days ago on the FBI's 
expenditures for counterterrorism from 1995-98. It shows a dramatic 
increase year by year, with big leaps authorized by Congress following 
each "terrorist incident," for funds for a host of domestic agencies. 
GAO wonders (as does Congress which asked for the report) if it's 
all being put to beneficial effect. Its description of CT activities
carefully 
excludes the classified, and also omits the global efforts of US military 
-- not least of which is its vast intelligence apparatus, tidbits of which 
are surely being tossed to the Wassenaar puppies to get them to
go along with the Terrorism War Machinery.

The NYT has been running a series on how long the TLAs and military
have been tracking Usama Bin Laden (at least since 1991, maybe longer). 
It appears that if he did not exist he would have to be invented for the 
counterterrorism agenda. It's even possible that Bin Laden is their invention,
cultivated, strung along, not arrested, for that purpose. The African bombings
were probably preventable, and it will be interesting if Congress lets this
possibility go uninvestigated.

More interesting to Americans, maybe, is that there also appears to be
an effort to boost domestic militia, particularly the religious brand, as the
homefront Bin Laden. The rise of religion-based terrorism is explored at
length in Bruce Hoffman's recent "Inside Terrorism." Hoffman claims that
religious terrorists may be the worst enemies ever, for they do not 
believe in political compromise: they want to kill every single opponent,
and have no reservations about using WMD.

If this theory is correct (and Hoffman has worked with RAND for years on
the issue) then the menace of terrorism is worse than that hawked during
the Cold War. The enemy is not distant, not even ICBM seconds away,
but rather it lives amongst us, it's our neighbors readying Armageddon not
merely a familiar commie takeover. 

Hoffman says to expect more OKCs around the globe. To be sure, that's
his business to say that.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Brown, R Ken" 
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 00:36:18 +0800
To: jya@pipeline.com>
Subject: RE: What was the quid pro quo for Wassenaar countries?
Message-ID: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F85FD@MSX11002>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



John Young talked about the way the TLAs are whipping up the War Against
Drugs and the threat od  terrorists,  WMDs and bogies (in English slang
"bogies" are little bits of partially dried snot that plug up your nose...
but  that's by-the-by) and concludes with:

[... If Bruce Hoffman is right ...]

> then the menace of terrorism is worse than that hawked during
> the Cold War. The enemy is not distant, not even ICBM seconds 
> away, but rather it lives amongst us, it's our neighbors readying
> Armageddon not merely a familiar commie takeover. 

Ambulance Driver: "Yeah, Doc, there was a nasty accident out on the
interstate."

Dr. Bassett: "Bad one, eh?"

Ambulance Driver: "Yeah, a truck and a car collided. Ya know, it was kinda
funny... the truck was carrying a load of the strangest-looking seed pods."

Ken Brown





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Burnes - Denver 
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 01:45:15 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Anguilla attached to Wassenar Agr?
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Since Anguilla is a UK protectorate, is it subject
to Wassenar Agreement rules if the UK is a signatory?

Anyone care to predict the next big crypto exporter?

Brazil?

Chile?

Argentina?

Columbia?

Tonga? ;-)

jim




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 23:57:14 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: Wassenaar News
Message-ID: <199812071515.KAA26956@smtp2.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



We spoke with Igor at the WA today to ask about the implementation
report Caspar Bowden said would be coming shortly. It seems that 
Dirk Weicke, the person preparing it (whom Caspar queried), 
is out sick and won't return to work until Thursday.

Another person working on the report, a Mr. Sidbitt (?) is also
out sick but should be back at work tomorrow.

At the moment there is no plan to offer the report on the WA
Web site. Each member will decide how to publicize it.

Igor, a friendly, reminded that the WA staff has no authority,
indeed has an evanescent existence, and is subject to vanishing
without explanation. The paranoid WA members, my words, cut 
no slack, cut-throat control of perfidious news is their modus 
operandi.

Still, Igor chuckled at my reporting that the perfidious USG will not 
anwser my inquiries, being unable to trust its terrifying citizenry. 
He refused my plea to send a purloined report, a report which,
on the evidence, appears to be quite sickening.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 00:41:44 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Corporate Mandarins and The Tyranny of *Hierarchy* (was: tyrannyof corporations (was: Corporate Nations))
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 11:44 PM -0500 on 12/6/98, Steve Schear wrote:


>  whereupon she said that my profile was an exact match with those who
>reach the highest levels of the corporate world. Then the bad news, its
>also the profile of a master criminal. I kid you not.

What a canard, Steve. I hope you don't actually believe it.

That sounds to me more like a romantic leftist sociological
pseudoscientific fantasy (I know, quintuply redundant :-)) about what it
takes to run a large business than any actual scientific observation of
human behavior.


This "sociological" analysis probably went over really well at a
touchy-feely corporate navel-gazing camp because it's more the way some
grey-flannel men *wish* they were, than the way they actually are. Thus the
prevalence on business bookshelves of titles like Machiavelli's "The
Prince", or Sun Tsu's "Art of War", or actual dreck like, I don't know,
"Accounts Receivable Secrets of Genghis Kahn", or something.


The fact is, people who've *built* very large businesses more or less from
scratch, like Sam Walton and Hugh Heffner, or even "criminals" like
Rockefeller and Gates, even people who took daddy's money and made it
outrageously larger, like J. Pierpont Morgan, Ned Johnson and Malcolm
Forbes, are no more criminal in their intent, much less behavior, than my
77 year-old mother is. Like any real entrepreneur, from junkyard owner to
dry-cleaner, these people are just motivated, and they work very hard at
something they like. The size of someone's success in building a business
is certainly more a function of brains -- and maybe a smidgeon of luck --
than brutality or ruthlessness.


Most senior corporate *managers*, on the other hand, especially those at
the top, are much more like blue-button mandarins than Genghis Kahn. They
got there by facilly regurgitating the modern version of Confucian Analects
back to their teachers, from kindergarten all the way through business and
law school. Actually working hard would break their long fingernails.

And, please, don't a confuse the time these mandarins spend at the
Emporor's court with hard work, as most very high-level "meetings", like
the corporate "retreat" above, are social functions in disguise -- parties,
in other words. As a result, these modern mandarins would rather fantasize
themselves as murderous feudal aristocrats -- or, more laughably, as the
modern equivalent in organized crime -- to justify their existance, or more
realisticaly, to relieve the tedium of supervising an enormous enterprise
which usually makes much more money simply by leaving it alone than it does
when actively "managed" or "regulated".


"Greed, for the lack of a better term, is good", as Oliver Stone
sarcastically said, damning progress with typical leftist Luddite faint
praise. Yet, as Russell observed, leftist ideology [like Luddism] is just
fuedalism's response to industrial progress. In that light, it makes much
more sense to actually take Mr. Stone at his word, and ignore his
post-modern "subtext".


So, money and power begets envy. So, what else is new?  People who can, do.
Those who can't, teach Sociology and call those who can "criminals", much
to the titilation of their customers in senior corporate management.
Meanwhile, the only *real* criminal activities, force and fraud, are *bad*
for business. Ask anyone living in Afganistan or Bosnia, or in North Korea
or Iraq, or, within recent memory, in inner-city Boston or Chicago.


Fortunately for us, the time is coming when people who invent *new* ideas
will make more money and have considerably more aggregate power than people
who live at the top of, or even those who create, large hierarchical
organizations in order to finance, and market, and, eventually, regulate,
*old* ideas.

And, since society can axiomatically produce literal swarms of people who
are creative and inventive, all in their own specialties, many more than it
can a few mandarin senior managers and politicians at the top of very large
hierarchical organizations, "power" itself, the ability to use force, or
more recently, fraud, to coerce or extort behavior from someone else, will
become much more diffuse. Except, that is, on occasions when almost
everyone, probably using a market to do so, agrees on what must be done.
And, anyone who's watched the capital markets lately knows how fast a
market can act when the time comes.


The reason for this change is simple. If infinitely-replicable information
becomes more important than finite land or machinery, and, more to the
point, if *new* information can be auctioned, for cash, at a higher price
than old information, instantaneously, recursively -- and anonymously --
across an increasingly geodesic network, then the power, the very *glamour*
of hierarchy -- and the snycophant court jesters it creates, like the
aforementioned "corporate sociologist" -- will be as dead as Sun Tsu's
middle-kingdom warlords, or Machievelli's renaissance princes.

Or, more properly, Ming-dynasty blue-button mandarins.


Cheers,
Robert Hettinga
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 03:52:06 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Corporate Mandarins and The Tyranny of *Hierarchy*
Message-ID: <366C248D.2066@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> This "sociological" analysis probably went over really well at a
> touchy-feely corporate navel-gazing camp because it's more the way
> some grey-flannel men *wish* they were, than the way they actually
> are. 
>
Take a look at the history of the Love Canal in Buffalo, NY or the
tobacco industry and think about these as models of corporate behavior
when you hire the exterminator to come onto your property to take care
of some pesky ants and horribly nasty, dangerous spiders using "safe,
environmentally sound" insecticides. The burden of proof is backwards
all too often in evaluating the manner in which corporations treat their
customers and their community. It sure looks like the corporate world
has more than its fair share of major criminals to me: some of them
firmly and respectably in place in Congress. They just don't hack little
girls to pieces and bury them in the woods; they kill tens of thousands,
slowly, and hide behind the finest suits and the sharpest lawyers.

The quest for economic gain coupled with the blatant disregard for the
health and safety of those around you is what is meant by
hyperindividualism. It's simply greed coupled with sociopathy.
Describing this as an offshoot of 20th century liberalism is way beyond
me. 

> or even "criminals" like Rockefeller ...
>
This is well off-thread but I saw a movie clip of John D. from the mid
40's where he was at a podium being fingerprinted as a publicity bit to
promote the FBI's policy of trying to fingerprint all Americans. Nothing
new under the sun eh?

Mike




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Trei, Peter" 
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 00:47:22 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: y2k/gary north delusions
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



As a former New Yorker, I find this whole
thread majorly uninformed.

Most of New York's water moves from the 
Catskills to the tap (or toilet) via
gravity, without encountering a pump
at any point during the way. Even if
all power and automated controls
failed, most of the city would continue 
to get water (remember - the system was
designed long before computers, or even
widespread electricity).

The only areas with major problems would
be the high spots - Washington Heights/ 
Spanish Harlem, some parts of the Bronx,
and the upper floors of some highrises. 

Even assuming that somehow every toilet
in the city became unusable, the decidedly
lowtech solid waste disposal system (trucks
to landfills in Staten Island and New Jersey, 
or barges to the Atlantic), would still operate.
The  solid volume of people's excrement is 
miniscule compared to the volume of material 
already handled. (If you think no crap goes 
into the system, you clearly have not spent 
time near in infant in the age of Pampers).

I suspect that Los Angeles, and other cities
which have grown recently in arid areas, would
have a lot more trouble.

Peter Trei




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jyri Kaljundi 
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 18:31:38 +0800
To: cryptography@c2.net
Subject: RE: What was the quid pro quo for Wassenaar countries?
In-Reply-To: <000e01be200d$d7be9e10$8007a8c0@russell.internal>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




I wonder what effect the Wassenaar politics have to non-member countries
of that agreement and how much those other countries support these US
crypto regulations? As I understand Wassenaar is mostly meant for export
of dual-use goods, not so much internal use although that is somewhat
regulated also. If that is the case, we still have many countries left
producing strong cryptography which can export it pretty freely. That is a
great export potential for those countries, only US used to be out of the
world crypto software market, now that there are 22 other countries, it is
just great news.

Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania fortunately are not members of the Wassenaar
agreement. And then we have places like most of Asia, Africa and South
America.

Jyri Kaljundi
jk@stallion.ee
AS Stallion Ltd
http://www.stallion.ee/




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 05:39:17 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: [Fwd: y2k/gary north delusions]
In-Reply-To: <199812042341.RAA18742@manifold.algebra.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 9:10 AM -0500 12/5/98, Soren wrote:
>Igor Chudov @ home wrote:
>> Well... The answer is that there is much less washing needed for
>> survival than it is needed for day to day civilized American life.
>> For instance, I change my shirts every day. If shit hits the fan,
>> you can wear a shirt for two weeks. Similar story is with other
>> clothes.
>This is a good one.  What about the other half of American life (the
>uncivilized?). You know, the americans who live in those old
>refrigerator cartons? The ones that nobody sees?  I think they get more
>than 2 weeks out of their shirts.
>The sad fact is that city brats haven't got the faintest idea what
>survival is all about  (you mean I have to *walk* to the supermarket?).
>It was in the 1890's when Queen Victoria issued an edict that forced all
>the english to 'bathe at least once a year'.
>Sit back and enjoy the carnival.

	What was tbe average life expectancy in Victorian England?

	Those "other half" (more like other .05%) who live in refridgerator
cartons regularly clog up ER's with gangrenous wounds, stinking of filth
and decay. They tend not to live too long like that. Many of them also get
a hot shower at least once a week from a homeless shelter.
--
"To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a
jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a
gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather naďve, and certainly
unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust"
http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html

Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro@playboy.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 05:36:03 +0800
To: "William H. Geiger III" 
Subject: Re: y2k/gary north delusions
In-Reply-To: <36694C23.B4CB9509@nyu.edu>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 10:10 AM -0500 12/5/98, William H. Geiger III wrote:
>In <36694C23.B4CB9509@nyu.edu>, on 12/05/98
>   at 10:07 AM, Michal Hohensee  said:
>
>>Then we're back to doing it in the open.  Less concentrated cities might
>>last a while longer, but not much longer.  There's no getting around it,
>>we *need* working sewer systems to have modern cities.  Otherwise, the
>>cities die.
>
>And you say this as if it is a bad thing.

	When the cities start dying, their population--hungry and
diseased--is heading your way. Some of them armed. Some ex-soldiers, some
ex-cops.

	You may be badder than most of them, but are you good enough to
kill them all?
--
"To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a
jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a
gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather naďve, and certainly
unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust"
http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html

Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro@playboy.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 02:32:38 +0800
To: Multiple recipients of list 
Subject: RE: tyranny of corporations (was: Corporate Nations)
Message-ID: <199812071632.LAA001.17@whgiii>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



In <3.0.3.32.19981207161424.006ae900@209.204.247.83>, on 12/07/98 
   at 12:17 PM, "Albert P. Franco, II"  said:

>Arial0000,0000,ffff

Please set Eudora so it does not output this junk in your messages.

tks,

-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
---------------------------------------------------------------






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 04:06:45 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: y2k/gary north delusions
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 11:07 AM -0500 on 12/7/98, Trei, Peter wrote:


> I suspect that Los Angeles, and other cities
> which have grown recently in arid areas, would
> have a lot more trouble.

Actually, Mulholland knew what gravity was, as well. :-).

Cheers,
Robert Hettinga
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jukka E Isosaari 
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 20:50:00 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: NEW Reuters story (fwd)
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 23:50:55 +0000
From: Dave Bird 
Reply-To: ukcrypto@maillist.ox.ac.uk
To: ukcrypto@maillist.ox.ac.uk
Subject: NEW Reuters story

In article <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F85F3@MSX11002>, Brown, R
Ken  writes
>r
   [sent to crytpo list, and to CIV LIBS DISCUSS]

Yahoo! News
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/wr/story.html?s=v/nm/19981203/wr/
privacy_1.html
Thursday 3 December 1998 12:38 PM ET

Europe readies police techno-surveillance law

By Niall McKay

SAN FRANCISCO (Wired) - The European Union is quietly getting ready to
approve legislation that will allow the police to eavesdrop both on
Internet conversations and Iridium satellite telephone calls without
obtaining court authorization.

The legislation is part of a much wider memorandum of understanding
between the EU, the United States, Canada, New Zealand, and Norway, a
nonmember European nation. That agreement allows authorities to conduct
telecom surveillance across international borders, according to a
Europol document leaked to members of the European Parliament.

``Security measures are often necessary in the cases of terrorism or
organized crime,'' said Glyn Ford, a member of the European Parliament
for the British Labour Party and a director of the EU's Civil Liberties
and Internal Affairs Committee. ''But what we need is some sort of
democratic control. It seems to me that many security services are a law
unto themselves.''

That will presumably be a topic of discussion when the European Council
of Ministers meets behind closed doors Thursday to update a 1995 wiretap
agreement known as the Legal Interception of Telecommunications
Resolution.

If approved, it would permit real-time, remote monitoring of email, as
well as of calls placed on satellite telephone networks such as those
maintained by Iridium and Globalstar. Unlike most laws in Europe, the
agreement will allow law enforcement to listen in without a court order.

``This is a US export,'' said Marc Rotenberg, director of the Electronic
Privacy Information Center. ``It's a European version of the
Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act.'' The act,
passed in 1984, was intended to allow law enforcers to tap the digital
lines of tomorrow, just as they tap analog phone lines now.

Ironically, in September, the European Parliament called for account-
ability of Echelon, the US National Security Agency's spying network
that is reportedly able to intercept, record, and translate any
electronic communication-telephone, data, cellular, fax, email, or
telex.

Under European law, representatives of each member nation can pass
legally binding resolutions. Further, the resolutions don't require the
approval of either the European Parliament or the individual parliaments
of EU members.

Many European Parliament members are outraged that the Council of
Ministers has been acting in secret. They are especially concerned about
the inclusion of non-EU nations in the agreement.

Patricia McKenna, a representative for Britain's Green Party, will raise
the issue in Parliament this week. She also intends to ask Europe's
Justice and Internal Affairs Council to ''justify the secrecy and lack
of consultation surrounding these initiatives.''

McKenna is requesting what she described as an ``open debate on the
crucial and far-reaching measures, with enormous potential impact in the
realm of privacy.''

Another member of the European Parliament believes that the so-called
``update resolutions'' will have staggering implications for personal
privacy.

``This legislation is not just a technical update,'' said Johannes
Voggenhuber, an Austrian representative for the European
Parliament. ``It places the onus on the telecommunications carrier to
provide a watertight back door to police.''

The European Council for General Security prepared the amendment with
technical assistance from the FBI, according to the Europol document
leaked.

The four major satellite telephone operators-Iridium, Globalstar,
Odyssey, and ICO-will be required by the law to provide access to
European law enforcement through ground stations in France, Italy,
England, and Germany.

Iridium officials could not be reached for comment.

It is unclear how the memorandum of understanding will affect US
citizens.

``I find it very hard to believe that a foreign nation-any foreign
nation-could eavesdrop on US citizens,'' said John Pike, a
security analyst with the Federation of American Scientists.

``It's one thing for the FBI to try and track terrorists across
international borders, but it's entirely another to let Europeans
tap US citizens' telephones.''

The FBI would neither confirm nor deny any relationship between the
United States and the other nations involved in the memorandum of
understanding. However, Rotenberg said such provisions are already in
place under the 1994 Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act.

While the new European law is being sold to EU member states as a means
of combating what the legislation calls ``serious and organized'' crime,
there is no clear definition of this phrase.

``It simply concerns any punishable offense,'' said Tony Bunyan,
director of Statewatch, a European civil liberties group.

(Reuters/Wired)

                                            |~/           |~/
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P |      Woof Woof, Glug Glug               ||____________||      0  | P
O |   Who Drowned the Judge's Dog?          | . . . . . . . '----. 0 | O
O |         answers on                  *---|_______________  @__o0  | O
L |{a href="news:alt.religion.scientology"}{/a}_____________|/_______| L
and{a href="http://www.xemu.demon.co.uk/clam/lynx/q0.html"}{/a}XemuSP4(:)





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 05:37:59 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: y2k/gary north delusions
In-Reply-To: <366A26C2.30D6892E@nyu.edu>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 3:09 PM -0500 12/6/98, William H. Geiger III wrote:

>Large metropolitan complexes are obsolete and their problems greatly
>outweigh their benefits. I am a land owner and *like* owning land, I enjoy
>having grass and trees, streams to fish and swim in, not living in a cage
>with my neighbors on the other side of a paper thin wall. I have enough
>land that I could plow it up and do subsistence farming to survive if the
>collapse ever comes (subsidized with fishing and hunting).
>
>Why anyone would want to live like a rat is beyond me.

	All night grocery stores within walking distance.

	Ready access to work and entertainment.

	10 different "ethnicities" of restraunts within walking distance
(if you consider "all night diner" to be an "ethnicity").

	Decent Mass Transit.

	Very little Country Music on the radio, and NO hog reports.

	Oh, and I haven't owned a car in 6 years.

	I don't really _like_ living in Chicago, but I'd like living in the
middle of BFE even less.
--
"To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a
jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a
gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather naďve, and certainly
unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust"
http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html

Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro@playboy.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 04:18:15 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Export of PGP Illegal in Denmark. Threatened w. jail (fwd)
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 08:05:05 -0800 (PST)
From: "Jay D. Dyson" 
To: Cryptography List 
Subject: Export of PGP Illegal in Denmark. Threatened w. jail (fwd)
Organization: NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory
X-No-Archive: yes
X-PGP-Notice: E-mail me for my PGP Public Key.
X-Disclaimer: Opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of
NASA/JPL/Caltech.
X-To-Spammer: Spamming a U.S. Government institution will only get you a
$500 per incident fine.
MIME-Version: 1.0
Sender: owner-cryptography@c2.net

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Courtesy of Defcon Stuff.

(Do I hear jackboots in the night?  'Deed I do!)

Sorry, Uncle Sam.  I'm a fan of cryptography, not crippletography.

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 13:45:17 +0100
From: "boo@datashopper.dk" 
To: dc-stuff@dis.org
Subject: Export of PGP Illegal in Denmark. Threatened w. jail

Hi
This is a true story. Denmark now - along with the whole EU - has
assimilated US-crypto laws.
I just had a phone conversation with the danish ministry of commerce,
the export control division. The kind lady I spoke to threatened me with
fines or jail for up to two years.

For having PGP for free download on my homepage!

I called the division to hear about the Wassenaar arrangement on
export-restrictions on strong crypto and its consequences. So I ask this
lady something like: I have this strong crypto program called PGP on my
homepage. What should I do. Does this Wassenaar arrangement concern me?
	'It sure does', she replies, and start to ask a lot of questions about
my homepage - does it have unlimited global access etc. And then she
says: 'You better take it down', and starts to reiterate the legal
aspects, e.g. two laws from EU on export restrictions.
	Specifically she points out the penal code: Fines. Jail.
	So...
	I'm _not_ going to take down PGP voluntarily. Otoh I'm going to SHOUT
this out loud. (I have already contacted two members of parliament and
will start calling all 179 later today.)
	Lets see what happens...

- --
Boo
PI = int a=10000,b,c=2800,d,e,f[2801],g;main(){for(;b-c;)f[b++]=a/5;
for(;d=0,g=c*2;c-=14,printf("%.4d",e+d/a),e=d%a)for(b=c;d+=f[b]*a,
f[b]=d%--g,d/=g--,--b;d*=b);}

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.2

iQCVAwUBNmv8uLl5qZylQQm1AQGYPQQAhDs8XfKRLD0ECTO5LuF1iA+0Yr7B9Yon
CAnKwZYAk07BYG2u/xuFEsU/xdoNTap+lVmWEwciREPL+wjF/hSWeq+/YP6uwpCb
9pkoXkMst2NnFQ6744GTYiRJMQPc4no6aaDzWwO4FnMjyIzUpD4kBPkh0MHutCAF
PyXXbstG1z8=
=ByGn
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 06:00:05 +0800
To: "Albert P. Franco, II" 
Message-ID: <4.0.2.19981207142627.00c9eb30@mail.well.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Many libertarians would not object if local state law punished rapists or
burglars by sending them to prison with labor requirements.

So if it is an acceptable punishment in principle, the question then
becomes who should qualify.

The problem with Tim's analysis is that if we extend the punishment to
anyone who's benefited from government tax-n-spending that libertarians
oppose, it's hard to find anyone *not* to put in the workcamp. Anyone who
takes advantage of public transportation (like the Metro here in DC), or
federally-funded interstates, etc. could conceivably qualify. And what
about all those folks with unconstitutional federal student loans?

And fundamental fairness principles suggest that punishment should not be
limited to welfare for individuals. Why shouldn't corporate welfare qualify?

Tim owns substantial shares of Intel Corp. stock, and Intel is a prime
beneficiary of corporate welfare. Check out last month's Time magazine
cover story at: http://www.time.com/magazine

Should just the directors of Intel, or also the shareholder owners be
punished?

A more moderate approach that seems more logically consistent might be to
limit punishment to state actors and agents (assuming you agree with this
concept of vengeance to begin with). There's a big difference between an
FBI agent engaging in what he might occasionally suspect to be
unconstitutional searches and busts and someone who picks up an occasional
unemployment check.

-Declan



At 10:02 PM 12-5-98 +0100, Albert P. Franco, II wrote:
>Tim must be having a "bad hair" day. He actually mentioned sending people
>to Labor Camps. That sounds so UN-Libertarian, I have to chuckle. I'm
>chuckling because I wouldn't want to think you actually believe in this
>very Hitleresque rant.
>
>Or is some FED spoofing Tim and sending "threatening" material in his name?
>In which case...lock and load, Tim. They're coming to get you!
>
>APF
>
>>and, have drifted into the camp I will dub "the vengeance
>>libertarians." Summarized, roughly, as:
>>
>>"You've stolen my property, you've imprisoned my friends, you've passed
>>laws making us all criminals, you've started wars to enrich your
>>military-industrial complex friends, and you're corrupt bastards. You can
>>forget about some kind of "libertarian amnesty." It's going to be payback
>>time, with at least hundreds of thousands of statist judges, politicians,
>>cops, soldiers, and other such persons going to the gallows. Payback time.
>>Welfare recipients are going to have to pay back all that they have stolen,
>>with compounded interest. Out of their pockets, or while in labor camps.
>>Payback time."
>>
>>
>>--Tim May
>>
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Wei Dai 
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 08:12:21 +0800
To: Adam Back 
Message-ID: <19981207152017.A29919@eskimo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Sun, Dec 06, 1998 at 12:08:04AM +0000, Adam Back wrote:
> (2) Borrowing resources -- a student with access to a campus full of
> workstations can obtain quite a bit of free CPU time.

If a problem can be solved on a network of computers for free, then by
definition broadcasting the solution to that problem won't create any
money. B-money mints will need to solve problems that can't be
parallelized well on low-bandwidth networks in order to prove that they're
not using free idle time of network computers. I'm not sure if such a
problem class exists, however. I think this problem will probably become
less serious in the future as people discover more productive uses of idle
computer time.

> (7) If such a system took off there seems to be an overhead equivalent
> to the value of b-money in circulation which over time has essentially
> been burnt off in disipated heat, and useless hardware.  But probably
> the cost is still much lower than the enormous costs involved in
> maintaining a force monopoly to enforce traceable transactions.

I now tend to think that the government monopoly of force is a net
benefit. If you look at countries where the government doesn't have a
monopoly of force (like Russia) things look pretty bleak.

Anyway, back on topic. The resource waste in creating b-money can be
reduced if we assume that b-money will be created gradually as the b-money
economy expands rather than all at once at the beginning. If we build a
deflation factor into b-money, b-money will be worth more over time and
therefore not as much b-money will be needed to support the operation of
the economy. This can be accomplished by specifying that the standard
basket used to define the creation of b-money grow at a fixed rate over
time. But of course deflation also has costs since it makes comparing
prices across time more difficult. 

I think b-money will at most be a niche currency/contract enforcement
mechanism, serving those who don't want to or can't use government
sponsored ones. However if it did become mainstream I think there are some
interesting macroeconomic questions here. Will prices really be stable as
they're designed to be? Will there be business cycles? What is the optimum
inflation/deflation rate?




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Albert P. Franco, II" 
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 02:07:54 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: RE: tyranny of corporations (was: Corporate Nations)
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981207161424.006ae900@209.204.247.83>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/enriched

 >>>>
From: "Blanc"  


Also, this image of hyperindividualism doesn't seem right.  I would think such an extreme degree of individualism would exclude much involvement with others, meaning they could not run corporations, because for a business to exist requires involvement in providing a service/product to the largest numbers of the population as possible,  and they can only do this if this large mass of people see the value of, and accept, in preference to the offerings of the competition, what that particular corporation offers.  
  
I imagine a hyperindividual more as an independent contractor working "alone".

There are dozens of examples of the Executive that comes to a new position, cuts jobs and makes other changes that make the bottom line look good in the short term. Since the sales of a very large company are not likely to "crash", this person looks good for a couple of years, then hops to a new job and the next guy catches the fallout of the short-term vision. 

The independent contractor on the other hand will probably never have the sales base to get away with screwing over his/her employees and clients. The independent contractor, that is not an out and out criminal, generally has to be very careful not to alienate the customers. A big corporation on the other hand can afford to lose a few thousand customers without too much trouble. A scoundrel has a much better chance of fucking over people in his/her rise to the top in a corporation than in a small company. 

The fly-by-night companies that are obviously rip-offs are not quite the same thing since very few people aspire to be like these folks. But the original authors point is correct in that a very large part of the population want to be able to emulate the big time self-interest seekers.

APF


From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Trei, Peter" 
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 06:15:31 +0800
To: "'Robert Hettinga'" 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Sure he did. However, geography was not
accomodating, and there is at least one
point where a major aqueduct is pumped
over a ridge. 

Peter


> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Robert Hettinga [SMTP:rah@shipwright.com]
> At 11:07 AM -0500 on 12/7/98, Trei, Peter wrote:
> > I suspect that Los Angeles, and other cities
> > which have grown recently in arid areas, would
> > have a lot more trouble.
> 
> Actually, Mulholland knew what gravity was, as well. :-).
> 
> Cheers,
> Robert Hettinga
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 09:16:24 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Vengeance Libertarianism
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19981205220239.006a17c8@209.204.247.83>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 11:36 AM -0800 12/7/98, Declan McCullagh wrote:
>Many libertarians would not object if local state law punished rapists or
>burglars by sending them to prison with labor requirements.
>
>So if it is an acceptable punishment in principle, the question then
>becomes who should qualify.
>
>The problem with Tim's analysis is that if we extend the punishment to
>anyone who's benefited from government tax-n-spending that libertarians
>oppose, it's hard to find anyone *not* to put in the workcamp. Anyone who
>takes advantage of public transportation (like the Metro here in DC), or
>federally-funded interstates, etc. could conceivably qualify. And what
>about all those folks with unconstitutional federal student loans?

Recall that I said I expected them to pay back what they took, with
compounded interest. Only if they could not arrange a payback plan would
their labor then be used.

And surely credit would be given for what was taken out in other forms.
Their indebtedness would be their benefits minus what they paid in.

Thus, while I may be benefitting to the tune of, say, $2000 a year in the
minimal services I ever use, the filling of potholes, etc., I am paying
upwards of  in federal, state, local, property, energy,
sales, and other taxes. (I won't say what my taxes are, especially as they
fluctuate wildly depending on financial transactions I've made, but they
are vastly, vastly greater than any minimal benefits I get from government
at any level.)

This calculus applies at all levels.

My point is not so much to propose that such a scheme actually be deployed,
but to explain how some of us don't buy the "let's let bygones be bygones"
approach. And why some of us will cheer when millions of ghetto maggots die
in the firestorms of social chaos we expect.



>And fundamental fairness principles suggest that punishment should not be
>limited to welfare for individuals. Why shouldn't corporate welfare qualify?
>
>Tim owns substantial shares of Intel Corp. stock, and Intel is a prime
>beneficiary of corporate welfare. Check out last month's Time magazine
>cover story at: http://www.time.com/magazine
>
>Should just the directors of Intel, or also the shareholder owners be
>punished?

This is disingenuous nonsense, Declan! While there is little doubt that
Intel, like all other large corporations, finds itself backed into these
kinds of kickbacks (tax rebates, special education bonds, worker training
reimbursements, etc.), these programs are unavoidable. And Intel most
definitely pays more into the government than it ever gets out.

So the city of Rio Rancho, NM, for example, offers to cut taxes for Intel
for X years if Intel expands a plant. And so on. Is the promise to reduce
robbery a benefit?

(Especially considering what Intel is shelling out in taxes, employee
salaries which are taxed at 39%, Social Security payroll taxes, etc.)

And so on. No one could make an argument that when a Grand Accounting is
done, that Intel has taken in more money from the government than it has
paid into the government.

(I could go on about Intel, and how it repeatedly turned down government
contracts, and how it refused to participate for the longest time in
government-sponsored research...until eventually the beancounters said that
the company was being taxed to death and might as well get _some_ of its
money back....)




>A more moderate approach that seems more logically consistent might be to
>limit punishment to state actors and agents (assuming you agree with this
>concept of vengeance to begin with). There's a big difference between an
>FBI agent engaging in what he might occasionally suspect to be
>unconstitutional searches and busts and someone who picks up an occasional
>unemployment check.

Amount received from government - amount paid to government = Indebtedness

(All calculated with normal accounting procedures, including the
appropriate time value of money, interest rates, etc.)

For most of us, Indebtedness = a negative number. We have paid in more than
we have gotten back, by essentially any accounting of values.

For those who have been collecting food stamps, welfare, AFDC, WICC,
disability, etc. their entire lives, indebtedness = $1.3 million, or
suchlike.

Better get to moppin' dem floors, Levonda!

And if they won't work to pay off their debts, let them begin starving
immediately.


--Tim May

"I swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, just the way the President did."
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young Dan_Tebbutt@acp.com.au
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 21:16:43 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: AU WassenaarWassenaar changes
Message-ID: <199812071243.HAA12590@smtp2.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




[OK to repost to crypto lists and Cryptome - dant]

I spoke this afternoon with one of the Australian delegates at the
Wassenaar meeting, an official from the Dept of Foreign Affairs and Trade
(DFAT).

Speaking off the record, they confirmed the changes at Wassenaar are pretty
much as we know already:
     - NEW CONTROLS on mass market crypto products (hardware and software);
     - DEREGULATING all weak encryption products using key lengths up to 56
     bits;
     - EXEMPTING mass market software where the key length is 64 bits or
     less;
     - EXTENDING the same mass market exemption to hardware for the first
     time;
     - EXCLUDING encryption products that protect intellectual property,
     such as digital watermarking;
     - NO DECISION was made about regulating 'intangible' distribution of
     technology, including Internet downloads.

Apparently in the short term the intangibles issue is being considered in
other fora (including the Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG) which includes
Australia thanks to Filthy Jabilucre et al).

It is still not clear whether the new restrictions are intended to stop
public domain software such as PGP*. The DFAT contact said there was no
discussion about an intention to stop public domain packages like PGP. They
did not think public domain was being restricted. Yet apparently the
Australian DoD has expressed the David Aaron view that public domain is
subject to the same restrictions as mass market.

* PGP is "in the public domain" for the purposes of Wassenaar/DSGL, since
the definition states:
     "in the public domain" (GTN NTN GSN), as it applies herein, means
     "technology" or "software" which has been made available without
     restrictions upon its further dissemination (copyright restrictions do
     not remove "technology" or "software" from being "in the public
     domain")

Note: there is no equivalent definition for "mass market", but the General
Software Note (GSN) states it thus:
     Generally available to the public by being:
        1. Sold from stock at retail selling points, without restriction,
        by means of:
          a. Over-the-counter transactions;
          b. Mail order transactions; or
          c. Telephone order transactions; and
        2. Designed for installation by the user without substantial
        support by the supplier;

Dan
=====
Dan Tebbutt, Technology Journalist, Melbourne Australia
Australian Personal Computer (http://www.apcmag.com)
LAN Corporate IT (http://www.lanlive.com)
The Australian (http://www.newsit.com.au)
Ph: +61-3-9347-8893 Fax:+61-2-9264-6320
Email: dant@acp.com.au
"The revolution will be televised ... on pay-per-view."





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ian BROWN 
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 01:59:22 +0800
To: Phillip Hallam-Baker 
Subject: Re: What was the quid pro quo for Wassenaar countries?
In-Reply-To: <000e01be200d$d7be9e10$8007a8c0@russell.internal>
Message-ID: <24416.913050208@cs.ucl.ac.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote:
>In addition under the single European act the entire country of Europe is
>one export zone for crypto control purposes.

Unfortunately, not yet. The European Commission has proposed amending the 
Dual-Use regulations to allow the free circulation of crypto products among 
member states, while extending controls to 'intangible' goods (i.e. Internet 
downloads). Until then an export license is required. Licenses are granted 
more readily and with fewer conditions (e.g. permitted end uses) for exports 
to other EU nations and Australia, Canada, Japan, New Zealand, Norway, 
Switzerland and the US.

Amazing the minutiae you have to trawl when co-authoring a paper on crypto 
export controls ;)

Ian.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 07:17:38 +0800
To: cryptography@c2.net
Subject: Wassenaar and the dumming of New Zealand
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


From: "Blair Anderson" 
To: "Robert Hettinga" 
Date: Tue, 08 Dec 98 10:13:56 +1300
Reply-To: "Blair Anderson" 
Priority: Normal
MIME-Version: 1.0
Subject: Wassenaar and the dumming of New Zealand


See Peter Gutmens contribution at
 http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/policy/.

NZ's very peculiar interpretation of Wassenaar
"Export Control Myths and Facts",
http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/policy/myths.html.

Its a rich source of matter on the subject.

Cheers

Blair Anderson  (Blair@technologist.com)

International Consultant in Electronic Commerce, Encryption and Electronic
Rights Management

   "Techno Junk and Grey Matter"
   50 Wainoni Road, Christchurch, New Zealand

          phone 64 3 3894065
          fax     64 3 3894065

Member 	Digital Commerce Society of Boston, Computer Professionals for
Social Responsibility,

---------------------------- Caught in the Net for 25 years
----------------------------

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 07:47:29 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: DCSB: Ira Heffan and Mike Schmelzer; "Software Patents" and Digital Commerce
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Mime-Version: 1.0
X-Sender: rah@pop.sneaker.net
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 13:02:59 -0500
To: dcsb@ai.mit.edu, dcsb-announce@ai.mit.edu
From: Robert Hettinga 
Subject: DCSB: Ira Heffan and Mike Schmelzer; "Software Patents" and
 Digital Commerce
Cc: Ira Heffan , Mike Schmelzer ,
        Roland Mueller ,
        "Jonathan J. Rusch" 
Sender: bounce-dcsb@ai.mit.edu
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: Robert Hettinga 

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----


          The Digital Commerce Society of Boston

                       Presents

              Ira Heffan and Mike Schmelzer
             Testa, Hurwitz & Thibeault, LLP

         "Software Patents" and Digital Commerce



                Tuesday, January 5th, 1999
                       12 - 2 PM
             The Downtown Harvard Club of Boston
               One Federal Street, Boston, MA



Although the very idea of patenting software seems to be an anathema to much
of the programming community, patents on software continue to stream out of
the U.S. Patent Office.  Everyone involved in digital commerce applications,
which are by definition software-based, probably has heard about recent
events:  The Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit decided "State Street
Bank & Trust Co. v. Signature Financial Group," which explicitly ratified
patenting methods of doing business, and a spate of well-publicized patents
have issued claiming to cover such concepts as the virtual shopping cart and
the reverse auction.  As a prerequisite to discussing these recent
developments, the first part of our talk will provide an introduction to
patents.  We will explain what patents are and what they are not, and
describe the business goals that a patent can serve.  Then we will talk
about current events, and attempt to  put the _State Street_ case in
context.  We will present a survey of recently-issued patents (suggestions
welcome) related to digital commerce, and conclude with some speculation
about current trends, including a novel form of software patent with
potentially huge implications.

Ira Heffan (heffan@tht.com) and Mike Schmelzer (schmelze@tht.com) are patent
attorneys at Testa, Hurwitz & Thibeault, LLP (http://www.tht.com).  We will
be presenting our own personal views on this topic, and not the views of
Testa, Hurwitz & Thibeault, LLP or its clients.


This meeting of the Digital Commerce Society of Boston will be held on
Tuesday, January 5, 1999, from 12pm - 2pm at the Downtown Branch of
the Harvard Club of Boston, on One Federal Street. The price for lunch
is $32.50. This price includes lunch, room rental, various A/V hardware,
and the speakers' lunch.  The Harvard Club *does* have dress code:
jackets and ties for men (and no sneakers or jeans), and "appropriate
business attire" (whatever that means), for women.  Fair warning: since
we purchase these luncheons in advance, we will be unable to refund the
price of your lunch if the Club finds you in violation of the dress
code.


We need to receive a company check, or money order, (or, if we
*really* know you, a personal check) payable to "The Harvard Club of
Boston", by Saturday, January 2nd, or you won't be on the list for
lunch.  Checks payable to anyone else but The Harvard Club of Boston
will have to be sent back.

Checks should be sent to Robert Hettinga, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston,
Massachusetts, 02131. Again, they *must* be made payable to "The
Harvard Club of Boston", in the amount of $32.50. Please include your
e-mail address, so that we can send you a confirmation

If anyone has questions, or has a problem with these arrangements
(We've had to work with glacial A/P departments more than once, for
instance), please let us know via e-mail, and we'll see if we can work
something out.


Upcoming speakers for DCSB are:

February   Roland Mueller   European Privacy Directive
March      Jonathan Rusch   Internet Fraud

We are actively searching for future speakers.  If you are in Boston
on the first Tuesday of the month, and you would like to make a
presentation to the Society, please send e-mail to the DCSB Program
Commmittee, care of Robert Hettinga, .


For more information about the Digital Commerce Society of Boston,
send "info dcsb" in the body of a message to  . If you want to subscribe to the DCSB e-mail
list, send "subscribe dcsb" in the body of a message to  .

We look forward to seeing you there!

Cheers,
Robert Hettinga
Moderator,
The Digital Commerce Society of Boston


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.5.5

iQEVAwUBNmwX/8UCGwxmWcHhAQFfjgf+IBe01g9XCldZYT+GRDI5ho1sOPgL6W7q
zLDQToz0GGM/NZzv44SMTSGpDFx80R1yautvy4xHMnYQy2UnvO2WGsfrjuwSdQte
8qxoRAFkihyP/mi/83As2TwWdp6QhwbjI02hyP6elsdSzsspflwwonOB4I+8E/xX
UDsGdQH4AHaWrK1S5XYfJSHSRGOBpk2+cqboiGvbcbC1z0vDRGrnztf8GADoPVC3
6vw4M00f+cgIuoaqqO4ol62Os6D+WPVw2NMop20OD62EGzYO2pyQjboPvBLxyRD7
smLz/4S598uLZF0GX+GO/8rCjAORask/Qt3SFIU2HMMPj9nKIvVtJw==
=gz6w
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

For help on using this list (especially unsubscribing), send a message to
"dcsb-request@ai.mit.edu" with one line of text: "help".

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 08:52:11 +0800
To: nobody@replay.com (Anonymous)
Subject: Re: Wiretap Operation Sheds Light on LAPD Tactics
In-Reply-To: <199812072323.AAA32006@replay.com>
Message-ID: <199812072344.RAA29429@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Anonymous wrote:
> 
> 
> If it is Monday, December 7, 1998, you can go to
> http://www.latimes.com/HOME/NEWS/STATE/topstory.html and read about how
> Los Angeles police wiretapped a small cellular phone service provider
> because his policies were too helpful for drug dealers.  He didn't try
> hard enough to verify customer names, he sold cell phones with built in
> scramblers, he allowed customers to change phones and numbers easily.
> After years of investigation the company owners were never charged,
> but a number of their customers were convicted as drug dealers, in many
> cases never being told about the phone taps.
> 
> It's an ominous account of how privacy-friendly policies can be used by
> the police to justify an investigation.

I am curious if the whole provider was just a front for the law
enforcement.

igor

> If it's after December 7, read the story here:
> 
> :      Los Angeles narcotics officers spent a lot of time spying on John
> : Lopez and his small storefront telephone company--Atel Cellular
> :      Convinced he was in cahoots with drug dealers by selling secure,
> : cop-proof phone service--no questions asked--they staked out his
> : Downey office, tailed his customers and finally wiretapped the
> : customers' and Atel's phones.
> :      Starting with just his business lines and a handful of customers,
> : the operation spread like kudzu, eventually covering hundreds of
> : phones and thousands of conversations and becoming the largest wiretap
> : operation in the history of Los Angeles County.
> :      When the three-year probe ended in March, police had arrested
> : dozens of Atel's customers, but not Lopez or any of his employees.
> :      The Atel taps are at the center of the nine-month legal
> : controversy over whether prosecutors have been improperly concealing
> : their wiretapping operation and the information derived from it. Also
> : at issue are charges by defense lawyers representing Atel customers
> : that the allegations against Atel Cellular are a sham created to win
> : court orders permitting an electronic fishing expedition against their
> : clients.
> :      Manager Lopez and Atel's owner, Atil Nath, refused to
> : comment. Their lawyers say the two men are not involved in drugs.
> :      "The whole concept [of the police wiretap operation] was
> : preposterous," said Dale Hardeman, a Downey attorney. "How are we
> : supposed to know if customers are involved in criminal activity?"
> :      Details of the probe--revealed through interviews, police
> : affidavits, wire monitor logs and volumes of court records--provide a
> : fascinating inside look at how detectives can mold the legal actions
> : of a suspect into criminal scenarios and persuade judges to authorize
> : snooping on people's private conversations.
> :      The probe also raises broader questions, such as whether many of
> : the reasons given for tapping Atel could just as easily be applied to
> : other phone companies, and whether wiretaps should be allowed to
> : continue indefinitely, even when police work for months without
> : finding enough evidence to arrest the target.
> :      The 4th Amendment protects phone privacy.
> : 
> :      Need for Probable Cause
> : 
> :      To tap a phone, prosecutors have to get a court order by showing
> : they have sufficient reason, known as probable cause, to believe the
> : phone subscriber is committing crimes. Even if a subscriber's actions
> : are legal when considered individually, those actions can amount to
> : probable cause when viewed as part of a larger picture.
> :      If a tap provides a lead or evidence, prosecutors must reveal the
> : tap and give transcripts to the defendant before trial.
> :      Though the Atel investigation established strong suspicion among
> : investigators that Lopez knew he was dealing with drug traffickers, it
> : fell far short of proving it.  But police were getting a steady supply
> : of leads against his customers as well as new phone numbers of people
> : they considered suspicious. So they kept going back to court for
> : extensions and new taps.
> :      Police referred all questions about the case to prosecutors, who
> : defend the wiretap practice, saying they had sufficient evidence to
> : suspect Lopez of wrongdoing.
> :      Dist. Atty. Gil Garcetti noted in a prepared statement that the
> : operation had court approval. He said police targeted Atel because
> : they believed most of its business was providing phones to drug
> : dealers without requiring them to provide any personal information.
> :      Superior Court Judge John Ouderkirk, who approved most of the
> : orders, said he could not discuss pending cases.
> :      Not much is known about Lopez and Nath. Nath lives in a two-story
> : home in a neat, well-kept neighborhood in Downey. Lopez lives in Pico
> : Rivera with his wife, Maria, and their children. Both have said in
> : court papers that they have no criminal record. Their company is one
> : of about three dozen small phone companies in Los Angeles County that
> : resell or sublease service and equipment.
> :      Police say the closest they came to showing a direct connection
> : between Lopez and drugs was during a stakeout at his home when they
> : saw a man arrive in a pickup truck registered to a member of what they
> : say is a drug gang.
> :      The investigation grew out of, and, in many ways, was modeled
> : after a 1994 wiretap of Downey Communications, another small retailer
> : of phone services. As in the Atel probe, police staked out the
> : business and collected information for wiretap orders.
> :      During hours of surveillance, they watched customers arrive and
> : leave. They noticed the types of vehicles they drove. They even took
> : notes on their manner of dress, eventually deciding that silk floral
> : shirts, pressed denim, hand-stitched leather belts and expensive
> : cowboys boots were haute couture on the L.A. drug scene.
> :      Police claimed that Downey leased to drug dealers and was
> : "heavily involved in the sale and transportation of narcotics."
> : Officers would later use the same language in Atel affidavits.
> :      The Downey wiretaps lasted a year. They ended in drug and cash
> : seizures and 12 indictments, including one against the brother of
> : Downey's owner. But the owners and employees of Downey were not
> : arrested. The owner said in court papers he was never interviewed by
> : police, was not aware of the investigation and has never been charged
> : with a crime.
> :      Police used the Downey Communications probe as a springboard to
> : Atel.
> :      The connection was tenuous.  Downey and Atel customers shared the
> : same taste in cars and fashion.  Downey employees were seen paying
> : short visits to Delta Tri-Telesis, a now-defunct cellular phone
> : business owned by Nath and operated by Lopez.
> :      So in September 1995, officers turned their binoculars on Atel,
> : which had taken Delta's customers.  They often saw customers in cars
> : registered to targets of previous drug probes going to houses once
> : used as drug "stash" sites and employing what police considered
> : "counter-surveillance" driving.
> : 
> :      Reports on Surveillance
> : 
> :      Investigators say they saw Lopez use such techniques when they
> : were tailing him in May 1996, shortly before they started tapping his
> : business phones. They said they saw him on the freeway changing lanes
> : erratically and driving "at a high rate of speed in excess of 70 miles
> : per hour," later making a U-turn on Arrington Avenue and lingering too
> : long--three minutes--at an intersection.
> :      Police also noted in affidavits that Lopez sold money counters
> : and phone scramblers; that he apparently didn't care if customers gave
> : him fictitious names; that he let customers change numbers quickly and
> : easily.
> :      Drug suspects were frequently found with Atel phones.
> :      Police saw what they considered suspicious calling patterns--too
> : many calls in a short period of time--among groups of Atel customers.
> :      Although such evidence was far from enough to file charges
> : against Lopez and Nath, legal experts say it was sufficient as
> : probable cause for a court order, which was granted in May 1996 for 30
> : days.
> :      After a month of wiretapping, Garcetti's prosecutors--armed with
> : transcripts of tapped phone conversations--were back in court asking
> : for the first extension of the court order and for permission to tap
> : new telephone numbers. From then on, requests for extensions built on
> : previous ones. Police eventually received 19 extensions.
> :      Although the taps provided a mother lode of leads against drug
> : dealers, they seldom offered much evidence against Atel. There was one
> : conversation that police described in an affidavit as particularly
> : damning for Lopez. It was on June 25, 1996, from "Oscar," who had been
> : under police surveillance.
> :      "Hey John, this number is no good," Oscar tells Lopez.
> :      Lopez: Not good?
> :      Oscar: They're on me again!  Right behind.
> :      Lopez: OK, bring it in now!
> :      But most of Lopez's conversations in the affidavits simply
> : confirmed what police already knew: that customers dealt directly with
> : Lopez, that Lopez based billing records on phone numbers instead of
> : names and that he handled billing arrangements by phone.
> :      In contrast, the conversations among customers were
> : fruitful. Most were cryptic discussions about drug deals, pickup
> : locations, delivery times, police said. According to investigators,
> : they never mentioned drugs, using words such as "ladies," "stuff" or
> : simply a number understood to be an amount of drugs.
> :      For example, in June 1996, police overheard this exchange:
> :      Receiver: How do they look?
> :      Caller: Real good. How many do you have?
> :      Receiver: 40 plus 5 out, plus some lying around.
> :      Caller: OK. I'll hold whatever else I have.
> :      Without interpretation by detectives, there is little indication
> : that that conversation is about drugs.
> :      By the time the operation ended in March, police had tapped close
> : to 400 Atel phones.
> :      The wiretap controversy erupted that month because San Diego
> : attorney Philip DeMassa and two other lawyers discovered that the case
> : against their clients sprang from information garnered from the Atel
> : taps and handed off to other officers who were not told of the taps so
> : they would not have to reveal them to defense lawyers.  Later, Deputy
> : Public Defender Kathy Quant went to court for indigent defendants.
> :      Garcetti acknowledged in June that he withheld tap information in
> : 58 cases and he agreed to notify defendants about future taps.
> : Although a judge upheld the wiretap handoff practice last month, with
> : some qualifications, Quant is considering an appeal. Other defense
> : lawyers are challenging whether Garcetti has revealed all tap cases.
> :      Whatever the outcome, the probe clearly helped police arrest some
> : of Atel's customers. It netted large amounts of narcotics, about $8
> : million in drug proceeds and dozens of arrests.
> :      Lawyers base their doubts about the investigation of Nath and
> : Lopez partially on the fact that it lasted three years and police
> : never tried to interview them. In fact, DeMassa alleges in court
> : papers that Lopez and Nath are actually police informants or are
> : perhaps cooperating through a grant of immunity from prosecution, an
> : assertion prosecutors call absurd.
> :      DeMassa is hoping to show that police misled the courts when they
> : said they were investigating Lopez and Nath.
> :      If Nath and Lopez were such an integral part of a gigantic drug
> : trafficking operation, the police should be trying to protect the
> : public from them, he said.
> :      "Why isn't anything happening to these guys?" he said.
> : 
> :      Acts Were Not Illegal, Critics Say
> : 
> :      None of Atel's acts described in the affidavits was illegal,
> : Quant and other critics say.  Well-known phone companies engage in
> : many of the same practices, Quant said. If police use the same
> : standards elsewhere, any companies, especially small retailers, may be
> : vulnerable to taps.
> :      Many of the actions cited in Atel affidavits are suspicious only
> : in the eyes of police, Quant said.  Money counters are legitimate, and
> : other firms advertise "no eavesdropping" cell phones because
> : legitimate businesses need secure communications, she said.
> :      There is nothing suspicious, for example, about high usage of
> : cell phones, particularly among real estate agents, salespeople, even
> : news reporters, Quant said.  And other small retailers allow people to
> : change numbers frequently.
> :      Regardless of Atel's guilt or innocence, what police did to Atel
> : could be done to any legitimate businesses, she said.
> :      Deputy Dist. Atty. Robert Schirn dismissed that notion.
> :      "That's quite a stretch," he said.
> :      "Atel was a facilitator and made it possible for drug dealers to
> : break the law," he said.
> :      Yet Schirn acknowledged that he could not point to any conclusive
> : evidence that Nath and Lopez knew that some of their customers were
> : drug dealers.
> :      He said he didn't know if police tried to persuade defendants to
> : testify against Nath or Lopez.  Even if they did, prosecutors would
> : need more evidence than the tainted testimony of accomplices to make
> : an arrest, he said.
> :      As for Atel, Hardeman said his clients had no idea some of their
> : customers were criminals.
> :      "This investigation has virtually destroyed them," he said.
> 



	- Igor.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 08:25:18 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: linux-gpib licensing (fwd)
Message-ID: <199812080001.SAA07092@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:
>From llp-owner@obelix.chemie.fu-berlin.de Mon Dec  7 17:59:05 1998
X-Authentication-Warning: obelix.chemie.fu-berlin.de: majordomo set sender to owner-llp using -f
Message-ID: 
X-Mailer: XFMail 1.1 [p0] on Linux
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: 
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 08:48:14 -0500 (EST)
From: "Danny G. Holstein" 
To: Claus Schroeter 
Subject: Re: linux-gpib licensing
Cc: llp@obelix.chemie.fu-berlin.de, James Minyard 
Sender: owner-llp@obelix.chemie.fu-berlin.de
Precedence: bulk


On 01-Dec-98 Claus Schroeter wrote:
>On Tue, 1 Dec 1998, James Minyard wrote:
>
>> 
>> I was wondering if you would consider changing the license for the
>> libgpib portion of the linux-gpib distribution from GPL to LGPL.
>> 
I'd like to register my thoughts here.

I believe the best model to how the GPL can work is how Apache and IBM handled
it.  IBM wanted to include the server with a system, they were willing to pay
but there was no one to pay, in the end, they paid with the only currency that
would work, namely, IBM added some code to the Apache server and was allowed to
inlude it with their system.

Stick with GPL.  No one should be able to sell the work of another person as his
own, with GPL, one is assured that the cost of using a code is merely that of
returning improvements to the code.

   ...Dan
-------
To get more information on the Linux-Lab Project see:
http://www.llp.fu-berlin.de/




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 10:12:53 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: What freedom means... [Register]
Message-ID: <199812080149.TAA07468@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text




Forwarded message:

> The Register - http://www.theregister.co.uk

> http://www.theregister.co.uk/981207-000006.html
> IBM PC martyrs meet untimely end
> Chinese smugglers of kit put to death 

> http://www.theregister.co.uk/981206-000003.html
> Eurospook plan for Web and wireless bugs
> If Enfopol 98 is genuine, the cops are getting seriously out of control 

[much deleted]


    ____________________________________________________________________

           If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me
           in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation,
           it is: bullying
                                                Howard Zinn

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Alan Olsen 
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 12:39:58 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: LA Times article on Wiretapping
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981207202040.042fb870@clueserver.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Here is a link to the LA Times feature story on the LAPD's use of wiretaps.
An interesting read.  Expect such things from the rest of the constabulary
when examined.

http://www.latimes.com/HOME/NEWS/STATE/t000111718.html


---
|      Bill Clinton - Bringing back the Sixties one Nixon at a time!     |
|"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmermann unites all| Disclaimer:         |
| mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!"  | Ignore the man      |
|                                                  | behind the keyboard.|
|         http://www.ctrl-alt-del.com/~alan/       |alan@ctrl-alt-del.com|




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Frederick Burroughs 
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 10:33:09 +0800
To: Cypherpunks 
Subject: Re: What was the quid pro quo for Wassenaar countries?
In-Reply-To: <199812071331.IAA23674@smtp2.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <366C8875.C8DC0A3C@shentel.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





John Young wrote:

> Peter Gutmann may be close to the truth about Echelon's role
> in the Wassenaar changes.
>
> The NYT reports today that the US is proposing to NATO a
> combined intelligence center to combat use of Weapons of Mass
> Destruction by rogue states and non-state terrorists like Usama
> Bin Laden.

[...]

> The NYT has been running a series on how long the TLAs and military
> have been tracking Usama Bin Laden (at least since 1991, maybe longer).
> It appears that if he did not exist he would have to be invented for the
> counterterrorism agenda. It's even possible that Bin Laden is their invention,
> cultivated, strung along, not arrested, for that purpose. The African bombings
> were probably preventable, and it will be interesting if Congress lets this
> possibility go uninvestigated.

It is a matter of record that the CIA vastly overestimated the wherewithal of the
former Soviet military, much less economy. Was this done on purpose to justify
opening the Capitol floodgates to float the USS United States, flagship of the
lone superpower?

Today's justification; third world sand fleas lighting paperbags full of dogshit
and ringing the doorbell. Can't have pranksters disturbing our good neighborhood.
Don't let children play with matches, and the US will organize the neighborhood
watch.

Meanwhile, the earth warms, storms ravage the tropics, glaciers recede, permafrost
defrosts, icebergs the size of Delaware calve and castoff, and the warm earth
sheds it's ozone like a sweater. Yeah, let's spend millions on Usama Bin Laden.
Who's the captain of this fuckin' ship of fools? How do you spell democracy?
M-U-T-I-N-Y.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: pgut001@cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann)
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 16:36:45 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: What was the quid pro quo for Wassenaar countries?
Message-ID: <91301833500932@cs26.cs.auckland.ac.nz>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



One thing which came to me recently when I was trying to figure out what sort 
of gun the US held to the rest of the world's head to get them to agree to 
this: Could the Wassenaar outcome have been a sign of Echelon in action?
 
Consider this: Delegates from each country have been travelling to Vienna for 
some months now to negotiate their countries position.  During the 
negotiations, they'll be contacting their governments via phonecalls carried 
over microwave trunks, satellite links, or undersea cables to discuss the 
progress of the negotiations and what position they should take.  Just like 
the negotiations which lead to the Five-Power Treaty in 1921, if one country 
had the ability to intercept all the other countries communications it would 
know how far they could be pushed, and where the most resistance was likely to 
come from, allowing greater amounts of "persuasion" to be concentrated on them.
 
I can't think of a more appropriate application of Echelon (use worldwide 
surveillance technology to perpetuate the usefulness of worldwide surveillance 
technology), and it would go some way towards explaining the very peculiar 
agreement which was reached.
 
Peter.
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 11:47:23 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin Walls (fwd)
Message-ID: <199812080331.VAA07823@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 21:38:55 -0500
> From: Robert Hettinga 
> Subject: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin Walls

> Subject: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin Walls
> Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 15:23:54 -0800
> From: John Gilmore 

> The US Wassenaar initiative is an attempt to deny the public not only
> all future strong crypto developments, but all existing ones.  As
> today's message from Denmark makes clear, the freedom-hating
> bureaucrats are threatening to prosecute a citizen merely for
> publishing PGP on his web page.

And this is different from yesterday how?

> Let's at least ensure that they don't eliminate *today's* strong
> crypto, by replicating crypto archives behind each Berlin Wall they
> threaten to erect.

Are you offering to put up your monies to provide any and all legal and
other support for any such site that participates? When is your site going
up?


    ____________________________________________________________________

           If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me
           in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation,
           it is: bullying
                                                Howard Zinn

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 11:32:58 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin Walls
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


X-Authentication-Warning: toad.com: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use
HELO protocol
To: cryptography@c2.net, gnu@toad.com
Subject: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin Walls
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 15:23:54 -0800
From: John Gilmore 
Sender: owner-cryptography@c2.net

The US Wassenaar initiative is an attempt to deny the public not only
all future strong crypto developments, but all existing ones.  As
today's message from Denmark makes clear, the freedom-hating
bureaucrats are threatening to prosecute a citizen merely for
publishing PGP on his web page.

Let's at least ensure that they don't eliminate *today's* strong
crypto, by replicating crypto archives behind each Berlin Wall they
threaten to erect.  Today we depend on a small number of archives (in
a small number of countries) containing source and binaries for PGP,
SSH, Kerberos, cryptoMozilla, IPSEC, and many other useful crypto
tools that we use daily.

Let's replicate these archives in many countries.  I call for
volunteers in each country, at each university or crypto-aware
organization, to download crypto tools while they can still be
exported from where they are, and then to offer them for export from
your own site and your own country as long as it's legal.  (The
Wassenaar agreement is not a law; each country has merely agreed to
try to change its own laws, but that process has not yet started.)

And if at some future moment your own government makes it illegal for
you to publish these tools, after all your appeals are denied, all the
pro-bono court cases rejected, and all the newspaper coverage you can
get has been printed, then restrict your web site so that only your
own citizens can get the tools.  That'll still be better than the
citizens of your country having NO access to the tools of privacy!

(I suggest putting these tools on a Web site on a machine that you
own, rather than on a web site where you buy space from someone else.
That way there'll be nobody for the freedom-squashers to threaten
except you.)

I'm sure that John Young's excellent http://jya.com site will be happy
to provide an index of crypto archives around the world, if people
will send him notices at jya@pipeline.com as your sites come up.
(Each archive should locally mirror this list, so that we won't depend
on a single site.)

Rather than having their desired effect of squelching crypto
distribution, perhaps their overbold move can inspire us to increase
strong crypto distribution tenfold, by making it clear to the public
that if you don't keep a copy on your own hard drive, the governments
of the world will be merciless in scheming to deny you access to it.
And if crypto developers have to publish on books, or rely on
smugglers to get crypto from country to country, then at least each
country will have its distribution arrangements already ready for when
the book is scanned or the smuggler arrives.

	John Gilmore

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "David G. Koontz" 
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 15:54:35 +0800
To: John Gilmore 
Subject: Re: What was the quid pro quo for Wassenaar countries?
In-Reply-To: <199812050240.SAA24692@toad.com>
Message-ID: <366CD51E.41C67EA6@ariolimax.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



John Gilmore wrote:
> 
>> PS:  I particularly like Ambassador Aaron's characterization that
> this new development will help US industry, by censoring foreign crypto
> publishers in the same way the US government censors US publishers.
> A giant step forward for freedom and commerce everywhere, eh Mr. Aaron?
> What an incredibly talented liar, I mean diplomat, he is.

A glorious anouncement!  The chocolate ration has been raised to 20
grams 
today, from 24 grams!



(for those of you who thought it would never get here)




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Dan Geer 
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 12:53:33 +0800
To: Tom Weinstein 
Subject: Re: What was the quid pro quo for Wassenaar countries?
In-Reply-To: <366A2F3B.9A20B93A@netscape.com>
Message-ID: <199812080428.AA19717@world.std.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




    > What an incredibly talented liar, I mean diplomat, he is.

Ah, but you forget that the definition of diplomacy
is the art of lying in State.

--dan




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bennett Haselton 
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 14:05:24 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: DSA for encryption
In-Reply-To: <199812080525.GAA32479@replay.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981207234844.01003230@h.mail.vanderbilt.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 06:25 AM 12/8/98 +0100, Anonymous wrote:
>>Of course, any manufacturer of Internet censorship proxy server software
>>could easily add ians.ml.org to their list of blocked sites (as they have
>>all already done with Anonymizer), so the idea would be for people to get
>>their friends to set up port-forwarding programs on computers that were not
>>blocked by the censoring proxy, and those could be set up to relay requests
>>between the IANS server and the computer behind the proxy server.
>
>It may not be so easy to get people to set up port-forwarding programs.
>These could be a target for hackers seeking to cover their tracks as they
>try break-ins.

The ports would only forward Web-based traffic, so an attack would have to
be carried out over HTTP.  The phf exploit is a notorious example; the IANS
was modified early to specifically prevent it from being used for phf
exploits.  But most other attacks cannot be done just with a Web browser as
far as I know.

One additional option would be to distribute port-forwarding programs that
keep logs of traffic.  The standard port-forwarding program for Windows
which we plan on recommending, Portpipe, does not do this, but we might
write our own version that does.

>Also, how many people in this day of commercial ISPs are
>able to set up port-forwarding programs?

Portpipe can be set up in thirty seconds on a Windows machine.  What you
need though is a machine that is connected more or less permanently to the
Internet.

>It would seem more promising to make your web page script be simple
>and portable enough that even users of AOL and free webpage hosts like
>GeoCities would be able to install it.

The problem with having lots of people run a copy of IANS is not that it
couldn't be made easy to install, but in many cases it might not be even
possible to install.  Low-end Web page accounts do not allow the running of
CGI scripts on the Web server.

>>I am working on a JavaScript form that could be used on the client side to
>>solve this problem.  We would like to use DSA to encrypt the requests sent
>>using IANS, since I've heard DSA can be used for encryption without
>>royalties, unlike, for example, RSA.
[...]
>What you want to do is to use the mathematical principle behind DSA, which
>is the difficulty of solving the discrete log problem, and use an encryption
>algorithm which relies on that same math problem, namely Diffie-Hellman or
>ElGamal encryption.
[...]
>If you need more information about what the various values mean, or how
>to create a DSA and/or ElGamal key, just ask.

Thanks!  Some people had already pointed out to me that ElGamal would be an
ideal choice, and was probably what I had in mind when I was looking for "a
version of DSA that can be used for encryption".

I'll follow the outline of the ElGamal algorithm given at
	http://www1.shore.net/~ws/Extras/Security-Notes/lectures/publickey.html

and the outline given in _Applied Cryptography_ unless you have another
recommendation.

>Really, ElGamal is simple enough that if you have access to a large-number
>math package, writing your own is probably easier than trying to get DSA
>to do it.  It is unlikely that you will find a DSA implementation which
>allows you to specify all the needed parameters above, particularly h
>and k.  Usually h is forgotten after key generation and not used during
>signature, and implementions will probably want to choose k themselves
>since it is a very sensitive parameter.

I will probably have to write my own large-number package for JavaScript in
order to implement ElGamal.  You've given me enough to get started though,
thanks!  (If I have any more questions, I'll have to post them to the list
since you're using the re-mailer :-)  but maybe the list population will
find this interesting anyway.)

	-Bennett

bennett@peacefire.org    (615) 421 5432    http://www.peacefire.org




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 08:33:24 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Wiretap Operation Sheds Light on LAPD Tactics
Message-ID: <199812072323.AAA32006@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



If it is Monday, December 7, 1998, you can go to
http://www.latimes.com/HOME/NEWS/STATE/topstory.html and read about how
Los Angeles police wiretapped a small cellular phone service provider
because his policies were too helpful for drug dealers.  He didn't try
hard enough to verify customer names, he sold cell phones with built in
scramblers, he allowed customers to change phones and numbers easily.
After years of investigation the company owners were never charged,
but a number of their customers were convicted as drug dealers, in many
cases never being told about the phone taps.

It's an ominous account of how privacy-friendly policies can be used by
the police to justify an investigation.

If it's after December 7, read the story here:

:      Los Angeles narcotics officers spent a lot of time spying on John
: Lopez and his small storefront telephone company--Atel Cellular
:      Convinced he was in cahoots with drug dealers by selling secure,
: cop-proof phone service--no questions asked--they staked out his
: Downey office, tailed his customers and finally wiretapped the
: customers' and Atel's phones.
:      Starting with just his business lines and a handful of customers,
: the operation spread like kudzu, eventually covering hundreds of
: phones and thousands of conversations and becoming the largest wiretap
: operation in the history of Los Angeles County.
:      When the three-year probe ended in March, police had arrested
: dozens of Atel's customers, but not Lopez or any of his employees.
:      The Atel taps are at the center of the nine-month legal
: controversy over whether prosecutors have been improperly concealing
: their wiretapping operation and the information derived from it. Also
: at issue are charges by defense lawyers representing Atel customers
: that the allegations against Atel Cellular are a sham created to win
: court orders permitting an electronic fishing expedition against their
: clients.
:      Manager Lopez and Atel's owner, Atil Nath, refused to
: comment. Their lawyers say the two men are not involved in drugs.
:      "The whole concept [of the police wiretap operation] was
: preposterous," said Dale Hardeman, a Downey attorney. "How are we
: supposed to know if customers are involved in criminal activity?"
:      Details of the probe--revealed through interviews, police
: affidavits, wire monitor logs and volumes of court records--provide a
: fascinating inside look at how detectives can mold the legal actions
: of a suspect into criminal scenarios and persuade judges to authorize
: snooping on people's private conversations.
:      The probe also raises broader questions, such as whether many of
: the reasons given for tapping Atel could just as easily be applied to
: other phone companies, and whether wiretaps should be allowed to
: continue indefinitely, even when police work for months without
: finding enough evidence to arrest the target.
:      The 4th Amendment protects phone privacy.
: 
:      Need for Probable Cause
: 
:      To tap a phone, prosecutors have to get a court order by showing
: they have sufficient reason, known as probable cause, to believe the
: phone subscriber is committing crimes. Even if a subscriber's actions
: are legal when considered individually, those actions can amount to
: probable cause when viewed as part of a larger picture.
:      If a tap provides a lead or evidence, prosecutors must reveal the
: tap and give transcripts to the defendant before trial.
:      Though the Atel investigation established strong suspicion among
: investigators that Lopez knew he was dealing with drug traffickers, it
: fell far short of proving it.  But police were getting a steady supply
: of leads against his customers as well as new phone numbers of people
: they considered suspicious. So they kept going back to court for
: extensions and new taps.
:      Police referred all questions about the case to prosecutors, who
: defend the wiretap practice, saying they had sufficient evidence to
: suspect Lopez of wrongdoing.
:      Dist. Atty. Gil Garcetti noted in a prepared statement that the
: operation had court approval. He said police targeted Atel because
: they believed most of its business was providing phones to drug
: dealers without requiring them to provide any personal information.
:      Superior Court Judge John Ouderkirk, who approved most of the
: orders, said he could not discuss pending cases.
:      Not much is known about Lopez and Nath. Nath lives in a two-story
: home in a neat, well-kept neighborhood in Downey. Lopez lives in Pico
: Rivera with his wife, Maria, and their children. Both have said in
: court papers that they have no criminal record. Their company is one
: of about three dozen small phone companies in Los Angeles County that
: resell or sublease service and equipment.
:      Police say the closest they came to showing a direct connection
: between Lopez and drugs was during a stakeout at his home when they
: saw a man arrive in a pickup truck registered to a member of what they
: say is a drug gang.
:      The investigation grew out of, and, in many ways, was modeled
: after a 1994 wiretap of Downey Communications, another small retailer
: of phone services. As in the Atel probe, police staked out the
: business and collected information for wiretap orders.
:      During hours of surveillance, they watched customers arrive and
: leave. They noticed the types of vehicles they drove. They even took
: notes on their manner of dress, eventually deciding that silk floral
: shirts, pressed denim, hand-stitched leather belts and expensive
: cowboys boots were haute couture on the L.A. drug scene.
:      Police claimed that Downey leased to drug dealers and was
: "heavily involved in the sale and transportation of narcotics."
: Officers would later use the same language in Atel affidavits.
:      The Downey wiretaps lasted a year. They ended in drug and cash
: seizures and 12 indictments, including one against the brother of
: Downey's owner. But the owners and employees of Downey were not
: arrested. The owner said in court papers he was never interviewed by
: police, was not aware of the investigation and has never been charged
: with a crime.
:      Police used the Downey Communications probe as a springboard to
: Atel.
:      The connection was tenuous.  Downey and Atel customers shared the
: same taste in cars and fashion.  Downey employees were seen paying
: short visits to Delta Tri-Telesis, a now-defunct cellular phone
: business owned by Nath and operated by Lopez.
:      So in September 1995, officers turned their binoculars on Atel,
: which had taken Delta's customers.  They often saw customers in cars
: registered to targets of previous drug probes going to houses once
: used as drug "stash" sites and employing what police considered
: "counter-surveillance" driving.
: 
:      Reports on Surveillance
: 
:      Investigators say they saw Lopez use such techniques when they
: were tailing him in May 1996, shortly before they started tapping his
: business phones. They said they saw him on the freeway changing lanes
: erratically and driving "at a high rate of speed in excess of 70 miles
: per hour," later making a U-turn on Arrington Avenue and lingering too
: long--three minutes--at an intersection.
:      Police also noted in affidavits that Lopez sold money counters
: and phone scramblers; that he apparently didn't care if customers gave
: him fictitious names; that he let customers change numbers quickly and
: easily.
:      Drug suspects were frequently found with Atel phones.
:      Police saw what they considered suspicious calling patterns--too
: many calls in a short period of time--among groups of Atel customers.
:      Although such evidence was far from enough to file charges
: against Lopez and Nath, legal experts say it was sufficient as
: probable cause for a court order, which was granted in May 1996 for 30
: days.
:      After a month of wiretapping, Garcetti's prosecutors--armed with
: transcripts of tapped phone conversations--were back in court asking
: for the first extension of the court order and for permission to tap
: new telephone numbers. From then on, requests for extensions built on
: previous ones. Police eventually received 19 extensions.
:      Although the taps provided a mother lode of leads against drug
: dealers, they seldom offered much evidence against Atel. There was one
: conversation that police described in an affidavit as particularly
: damning for Lopez. It was on June 25, 1996, from "Oscar," who had been
: under police surveillance.
:      "Hey John, this number is no good," Oscar tells Lopez.
:      Lopez: Not good?
:      Oscar: They're on me again!  Right behind.
:      Lopez: OK, bring it in now!
:      But most of Lopez's conversations in the affidavits simply
: confirmed what police already knew: that customers dealt directly with
: Lopez, that Lopez based billing records on phone numbers instead of
: names and that he handled billing arrangements by phone.
:      In contrast, the conversations among customers were
: fruitful. Most were cryptic discussions about drug deals, pickup
: locations, delivery times, police said. According to investigators,
: they never mentioned drugs, using words such as "ladies," "stuff" or
: simply a number understood to be an amount of drugs.
:      For example, in June 1996, police overheard this exchange:
:      Receiver: How do they look?
:      Caller: Real good. How many do you have?
:      Receiver: 40 plus 5 out, plus some lying around.
:      Caller: OK. I'll hold whatever else I have.
:      Without interpretation by detectives, there is little indication
: that that conversation is about drugs.
:      By the time the operation ended in March, police had tapped close
: to 400 Atel phones.
:      The wiretap controversy erupted that month because San Diego
: attorney Philip DeMassa and two other lawyers discovered that the case
: against their clients sprang from information garnered from the Atel
: taps and handed off to other officers who were not told of the taps so
: they would not have to reveal them to defense lawyers.  Later, Deputy
: Public Defender Kathy Quant went to court for indigent defendants.
:      Garcetti acknowledged in June that he withheld tap information in
: 58 cases and he agreed to notify defendants about future taps.
: Although a judge upheld the wiretap handoff practice last month, with
: some qualifications, Quant is considering an appeal. Other defense
: lawyers are challenging whether Garcetti has revealed all tap cases.
:      Whatever the outcome, the probe clearly helped police arrest some
: of Atel's customers. It netted large amounts of narcotics, about $8
: million in drug proceeds and dozens of arrests.
:      Lawyers base their doubts about the investigation of Nath and
: Lopez partially on the fact that it lasted three years and police
: never tried to interview them. In fact, DeMassa alleges in court
: papers that Lopez and Nath are actually police informants or are
: perhaps cooperating through a grant of immunity from prosecution, an
: assertion prosecutors call absurd.
:      DeMassa is hoping to show that police misled the courts when they
: said they were investigating Lopez and Nath.
:      If Nath and Lopez were such an integral part of a gigantic drug
: trafficking operation, the police should be trying to protect the
: public from them, he said.
:      "Why isn't anything happening to these guys?" he said.
: 
:      Acts Were Not Illegal, Critics Say
: 
:      None of Atel's acts described in the affidavits was illegal,
: Quant and other critics say.  Well-known phone companies engage in
: many of the same practices, Quant said. If police use the same
: standards elsewhere, any companies, especially small retailers, may be
: vulnerable to taps.
:      Many of the actions cited in Atel affidavits are suspicious only
: in the eyes of police, Quant said.  Money counters are legitimate, and
: other firms advertise "no eavesdropping" cell phones because
: legitimate businesses need secure communications, she said.
:      There is nothing suspicious, for example, about high usage of
: cell phones, particularly among real estate agents, salespeople, even
: news reporters, Quant said.  And other small retailers allow people to
: change numbers frequently.
:      Regardless of Atel's guilt or innocence, what police did to Atel
: could be done to any legitimate businesses, she said.
:      Deputy Dist. Atty. Robert Schirn dismissed that notion.
:      "That's quite a stretch," he said.
:      "Atel was a facilitator and made it possible for drug dealers to
: break the law," he said.
:      Yet Schirn acknowledged that he could not point to any conclusive
: evidence that Nath and Lopez knew that some of their customers were
: drug dealers.
:      He said he didn't know if police tried to persuade defendants to
: testify against Nath or Lopez.  Even if they did, prosecutors would
: need more evidence than the tainted testimony of accomplices to make
: an arrest, he said.
:      As for Atel, Hardeman said his clients had no idea some of their
: customers were criminals.
:      "This investigation has virtually destroyed them," he said.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: jill567@copacabana.com
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 16:42:42 +0800
To: 
Subject: PUTS MONEY INTO YOUR POCKET -- BUSINESS OPPORTUNITY AD
Message-ID: <199812080809.AAA20758@cyberpass.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



DEAR FELLOW ENTRPENEUR
 ***********************
 I AM GOING TO SHARE WITH YOU INFO THAT HAS BEEN KEPT
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 *************************************************
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 *************************************************
 Actually it's SIMPLE. These people always make money. 
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 Here are just a few of the people that use this method all the 
time:

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 SHIRLEY SILVA, BARBARA COLLINS AND JOE GODDA. These people
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 JOE SCHROEDER SAYS:  "YOU DON'T HAVE TO GET IT RIGHT YOU
                       JUST HAVE TO GET IT GOING".

 THANK YOU FOR ALLOWING ME TO SHARE THIS AMAZING SYSTEM WITH YOU.

THIS MESSAGE SENT BY

EMAIL KING AND ASSOCIATES
]790 BONHILL RD
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TO BE REMOVED VISIT WWW.REMOVE-LISTDOTCOM
]
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: x 
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 17:51:47 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Wei Dei's "b-money" protocol
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19981208010003.006faf20@shell15.ba.best.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



there must be something here that I'm missing.  At the core of this
protocol seems to be the establishment not of crypto anarchy but of a
crypto elite. in this scheme only the processors of computing power  have
economic power.  Now I realize that our current economic system is based on
economic power being invested in a closed community of powerful elites, and
is by no means egalitarian, but this looks to be like simply substituting
one group of "haves" for a different group of "haves"

I have to admit not being familiar with the Orthodoxy of crypto anarchy,
but if the premise is a centerless self organizing system of free agents
this protocol seems to miss the mark. or what is it that I am missing here?

At 07:37 PM 12/5/98 GMT, you wrote:
>
>
>Wei Dei recently announced (on cypherpunks) his "b-money, a new
>protocol for monetary exchange and contract enforcement for
>pseudonyms".
>
>Below is the text of his proposal.
>
>Comments to follow.
>
>Adam
>
>======================================================================
>http://www.eskimo.com/~weidai/bmoney.txt
>======================================================================
>
>I am fascinated by Tim May's crypto-anarchy. Unlike the communities
>traditionally associated with the word "anarchy", in a crypto-anarchy the
>government is not temporarily destroyed but permanently forbidden and
>permanently unnecessary. It's a community where the threat of violence is
>impotent because violence is impossible, and violence is impossible
>because its participants cannot be linked to their true names or physical
>locations.
>
>Until now it's not clear, even theoretically, how such a community could
>operate. A community is defined by the cooperation of its participants,
>and efficient cooperation requires a medium of exchange (money) and a way
>to enforce contracts. Traditionally these services have been provided by
>the government or government sponsored institutions and only to legal
>entities. In this article I describe a protocol by which these services
>can be provided to and by untraceable entities.
>
>I will actually describe two protocols. The first one is impractical,
>because it makes heavy use of a synchronous and unjammable anonymous
>broadcast channel. However it will motivate the second, more practical
>protocol. In both cases I will assume the existence of an untraceable
>network, where senders and receivers are identified only by digital
>pseudonyms (i.e. public keys) and every messages is signed by its sender
>and encrypted to its receiver.
>
>In the first protocol, every participant maintains a (seperate) database
>of how much money belongs to each pseudonym. These accounts collectively
>define the ownership of money, and how these accounts are updated is the
>subject of this protocol.
>
>1. The creation of money. Anyone can create money by broadcasting the
>solution to a previously unsolved computational problem. The only
>conditions are that it must be easy to determine how much computing effort
>it took to solve the problem and the solution must otherwise have no
>value, either practical or intellectual. The number of monetary units
>created is equal to the cost of the computing effort in terms of a
>standard basket of commodities. For example if a problem takes 100 hours
>to solve on the computer that solves it most economically, and it takes 3
>standard baskets to purchase 100 hours of computing time on that computer
>on the open market, then upon the broadcast of the solution to that
>problem everyone credits the broadcaster's account by 3 units.
>
>2. The transfer of money. If Alice (owner of pseudonym K_A) wishes to
>transfer X units of money to Bob (owner of pseudonym K_B), she broadcasts
>the message "I give X units of money to K_B" signed by K_A. Upon the
>broadcast of this message, everyone debits K_A's account by X units and
>credits K_B's account by X units, unless this would create a negative
>balance in K_A's account in which case the message is ignored.
>
>3. The effecting of contracts. A valid contract must include a maximum
>reparation in case of default for each participant party to it. It should
>also include a party who will perform arbitration should there be a
>dispute. All parties to a contract including the arbitrator must broadcast
>their signatures of it before it becomes effective. Upon the broadcast of
>the contract and all signatures, every participant debits the account of
>each party by the amount of his maximum reparation and credits a special
>account identified by a secure hash of the contract by the sum the maximum
>reparations. The contract becomes effective if the debits succeed for
>every party without producing a negative balance, otherwise the contract
>is ignored and the accounts are rolled back. A sample contract might look
>like this:
>
>K_A agrees to send K_B the solution to problem P before 0:0:0 1/1/2000.
>K_B agrees to pay K_A 100 MU (monetary units) before 0:0:0 1/1/2000. K_C
>agrees to perform arbitration in case of dispute. K_A agrees to pay a
>maximum of 1000 MU in case of default. K_B agrees to pay a maximum of 200
>MU in case of default. K_C agrees to pay a maximum of 500 MU in case of
>default.
>
>4. The conclusion of contracts. If a contract concludes without dispute,
>each party broadcasts a signed message "The contract with SHA-1 hash H
>concludes without reparations." or possibly "The contract with SHA-1 hash
>H concludes with the following reparations: ..." Upon the broadcast of all
>signatures, every participant credits the account of each party by the
>amount of his maximum reparation, removes the contract account, then
>credits or debits the account of each party according to the reparation
>schedule if there is one.
>
>5. The enforcement of contracts. If the parties to a contract cannot agree
>on an appropriate conclusion even with the help of the arbitrator, each
>party broadcasts a suggested reparation/fine schedule and any arguments or
>evidence in his favor. Each participant makes a determination as to the
>actual reparations and/or fines, and modifies his accounts accordingly.
>
>In the second protocol, the accounts of who has how much money are kept by
>a subset of the participants (called servers from now on) instead of
>everyone. These servers are linked by a Usenet-style broadcast channel.
>The format of transaction messages broadcasted on this channel remain the
>same as in the first protocol, but the affected participants of each
>transaction should verify that the message has been received and
>successfully processed by a randomly selected subset of the servers.
>
>Since the servers must be trusted to a degree, some mechanism is needed to
>keep them honest. Each server is required to deposit a certain amount of
>money in a special account to be used as potential fines or rewards for
>proof of misconduct. Also, each server must periodically publish and
>commit to its current money creation and money ownership databases. Each
>participant should verify that his own account balances are correct and
>that the sum of the account balances is not greater than the total amount
>of money created. This prevents the servers, even in total collusion, from
>permanently and costlessly expanding the money supply. New servers can
>also use the published databases to synchronize with existing servers.
>
>The protocol proposed in this article allows untraceable pseudonymous
>entities to cooperate with each other more efficiently, by providing them
>with a medium of exchange and a method of enforcing contracts. The
>protocol can probably be made more efficient and secure, but I hope this
>is a step toward making crypto-anarchy a practical as well as theoretical
>possibility.
>
>======================================================================
>
>
>




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: x 
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 17:46:28 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin Walls
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19691231160000.006fd6e8@shell15.ba.best.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



This brings to mind again a method of distribution that I've thought for
some time and has probably been discussed on this list before.  In this
distribution method, as long as there is the opportunity to cooperate ahead
of time and out of band, there is the potential for retaining the ability
to provide access any binary data that would be subject to unwanted control.

The scheme is just a variation of secret sharing and all that is necessary
is for several different entities to replicate portions of the desired
software, which portions in and of themselves cannot be subject to any
control.

For (a trivial) example take the image of PGP zipped up for download.
Three different sites create a unique portion of that image for themselves,
for example, each site takes every third byte, and throw in some additional
obfuscation by each site XORing their portion of the image by some
additional data available at a fourth site such as a collection of
cypherpunk list text.

It then is trivial to reconstruct the desired image from the independent
sources, while none of the sources themselves can be subject to controls
without having to go down the rat hole of having to define what really
constitutes the restricted material -- either in all possible forms, or in
terms of all possible transforms applicable to the partitioned source
material.  Otherwise it could be argued that there is a function and that
takes the image of an ASCII representation of Herman Melville's Moby Dick
into the image of PGP.ZIP and therefore Moby Dick is an export controlled
item.  Or is the transform the export-controlled item?  Or what?

Eh?

At 09:38 PM 12/7/98 -0500, Robert Hettinga wrote:
>
>
>--- begin forwarded text
>
>
>X-Authentication-Warning: toad.com: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use
>HELO protocol
>To: cryptography@c2.net, gnu@toad.com
>Subject: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin Walls
>Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 15:23:54 -0800
>From: John Gilmore 
>Sender: owner-cryptography@c2.net
>
>The US Wassenaar initiative is an attempt to deny the public not only
>all future strong crypto developments, but all existing ones.  As
>today's message from Denmark makes clear, the freedom-hating
>bureaucrats are threatening to prosecute a citizen merely for
>publishing PGP on his web page.
>
>Let's at least ensure that they don't eliminate *today's* strong
>crypto, by replicating crypto archives behind each Berlin Wall they
>threaten to erect.  Today we depend on a small number of archives (in
>a small number of countries) containing source and binaries for PGP,
>SSH, Kerberos, cryptoMozilla, IPSEC, and many other useful crypto
>tools that we use daily.
>
>Let's replicate these archives in many countries.  I call for
>volunteers in each country, at each university or crypto-aware
>organization, to download crypto tools while they can still be
>exported from where they are, and then to offer them for export from
>your own site and your own country as long as it's legal.  (The
>Wassenaar agreement is not a law; each country has merely agreed to
>try to change its own laws, but that process has not yet started.)
>
>And if at some future moment your own government makes it illegal for
>you to publish these tools, after all your appeals are denied, all the
>pro-bono court cases rejected, and all the newspaper coverage you can
>get has been printed, then restrict your web site so that only your
>own citizens can get the tools.  That'll still be better than the
>citizens of your country having NO access to the tools of privacy!
>
>(I suggest putting these tools on a Web site on a machine that you
>own, rather than on a web site where you buy space from someone else.
>That way there'll be nobody for the freedom-squashers to threaten
>except you.)
>
>I'm sure that John Young's excellent http://jya.com site will be happy
>to provide an index of crypto archives around the world, if people
>will send him notices at jya@pipeline.com as your sites come up.
>(Each archive should locally mirror this list, so that we won't depend
>on a single site.)
>
>Rather than having their desired effect of squelching crypto
>distribution, perhaps their overbold move can inspire us to increase
>strong crypto distribution tenfold, by making it clear to the public
>that if you don't keep a copy on your own hard drive, the governments
>of the world will be merciless in scheming to deny you access to it.
>And if crypto developers have to publish on books, or rely on
>smugglers to get crypto from country to country, then at least each
>country will have its distribution arrangements already ready for when
>the book is scanned or the smuggler arrives.
>
>	John Gilmore
>
>--- end forwarded text
>
>
>-----------------
>Robert A. Hettinga 
>Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
>44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
>"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
>[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
>experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
>
>
>




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: JCousino@aol.com
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 16:52:25 +0800
Subject: Information you need
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



The Sanarchist Cookbook

Known as the world most forbidden information source and outlawed in many
nations this book was thought to be banished from the face of the Earth.

HUGE FORBIDDEN INFORMATION LIBRARY
220 pages of the massive book of Anarchy 

Learn the tricks of the trade written by the skilled hands of the Sanarchist.
Including massive amounts of information on building home made weapons like
the potato shooter to making dollar bills that can be used continuously in
coke machines this book can pull you out of any jam.  If you are interested in
those great WWII bomb guides & handbooks this thing has them all!

We are set out to distribute this book to anyone that is interested and it
comes by mail(sorry we can't post it on the web because no web server will
support us).  

We have been selling this product for almost two months now and have processed
hundreds of orders.  This book is great, we have had no complaints on it, and
we will never have any complaints on it its so good.  If this is the only
product you ever order off the Internet then you have picked a good choice.
Our price is low and the product is great!

Send payment of $6.50 to the address below to receive your cookbook by mail.
K.C. Smith
933 Birchwood Court
Evansville, IN 47710

I am giving you my address and information so clearly this is not a sick
scheme to take your money.  I don't know about you but the last thing I wantis
hundreds of people beating my car with a baseball bat wanting their cookbook.
This is a great gift, I give you my word on that.

Expect 3-7 Days to Receive your cookbook. 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 09:41:41 +0800
To: Markus.Kuhn@cl.cam.ac.uk
Subject: Re: (fwd) Markus Kuhn on eternity
Message-ID: <199812080103.CAA09925@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Markus Kuhn writes:

> The main research aspect of this project is the joint administration of
> such distributed archives. For spam protection, you still need people
> who decide, which files are allowed on the distributed server
> infrastructure, and which are not. This administration is so far the
> weak link in the Eternity Service concept, because whoever decides that
> something is not spam takes over some responsibility for the content,
> and is therefore subject to legal power of national powers.

It would seem that it is the provider of the content, not the filterer,
who is subject to legal authority.  If I set up an open FTP site and
allow anyone to post anything there, I can be legally forced to shut
down once copyrighted software and child pornography appear.  It has
nothing to do with my filtering, it is my providing of the material that
is objectionable.

The Eternity concept has always been vague about exactly who is anonymous.
There are many parties involved: the ones who submit material to the
Eternity service; the ones who decide what material will go onto the
service; the ones who own and maintain the machines which hold the
material; the ones who receive requests for the material and supply it
in response; the ones who request material and receive it.

We need a more careful analysis of Eternity in terms of what levels of
anonymity are possible and necessary for each of these roles.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: x 
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 19:20:05 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin  Walls
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19691231160000.007048c0@shell15.ba.best.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 11:53 AM 12/8/98 +0200, Tim Griffiths wrote:
>
>x wrote:
>> 
>> This brings to mind again a method of distribution that I've thought for
>> some time and has probably been discussed on this list before...
>> For (a trivial) example take the image of PGP zipped up for download.
>> Three different sites create a unique portion of that image for
>> themselves, for example, each site takes every third byte, and throw
>> in some additional obfuscation...It then is trivial to reconstruct
>> the desired image from the independent sources, while none of the
>> sources themselves can be subject to controls without having to go
>> down the rat hole of having to define what really constitutes the
>> restricted material...
>
>1. What is the point of the obfuscation? If it's not legal to do it
>openly, then it's certainly not legal to hide the fact your doing it.
>"The accused did it in such a way as to demonstrate that he was aware
>of it's illegality".

the point is not to hide anything; the point is to expand, arbitrarily (and
this was a trivial example), the f() that takes bits from a controllable
image to one that is not.

>
>2. By your example, you could also take a cruise missile apart, and
>ship each part separately. After all, none of it is actually a missile.

in a cruise missle, there will be certain parts -- e.g. the warhead
explosives? -- that are still identifiable as controlled.  taking apart the
missle by n people where n is the number of 'parts' will result in some
subset of participants possessing components that implicate them in an
illegal act.  this is simply not true of bits.  What is the bit sequence
that defines "munition"-ness?  My point is that there is no hard point at
which that can be defined, when you start talking about mappings from a
controlled image to some other images which cannot be controlled. 

>
>However I 'export' PGP from the US, I'm exporting it, even if I have a
>web site for each bit, 0 or 1 being determined by whether Clinton has
>a cigar or not in a posted picture.

You're just asserting the assumptions I am trying to examine, and this is
not helpful.  You're also assuming a single participant, with
accountability.  I am assuming multiple participants, and that they're
acting independently; let's expand this to say that one individual provides
the 'algorithm' for the mapping, and any other participants are free to
obtain their image out of band legally, and implement this algorithm on
some portion of the image, publishing the result.  Whom do you arrest?
Where is the culpability?

If the algorithm defines that there be 256K subimages of the original, one
for each byte, say...can I be arrested for choosing to post f(byte
123,456)?  Or do I get arrested for publishing f(byte 123,456) PLUS the
information that identifies this byte as corresponding to byte 123,456 in
the reconstruction of the original?  I honestly don't know where this goes,
but to just make a blanket statement like you did doesn't really add anything.


>Yes, the law is inconsistent (let alone stupid). Not, I wouldn't want
>to try this and expect to be immune from prosecution.
>

>Tim G
>
>--
>Tim Griffiths                   griffith@wis.weizmann.ac.il
>Center for Submicron Research   http://tim01.ex.ac.uk
>Weizmann Institute of Science   (972)-8-934-2736
>Rehovot 76100 Israel
>
> 'I have sat and listened to the arguments of men,
>  and I tell you they are shallow movements in space
>  tied to reality only by the ego of their minds.' -DF
>
>
>




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: wbclinic@efn.org
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 20:39:22 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: WE RULE!
Message-ID: <0012547854.JAA00147@longtom.efn.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Out webpage is better than anyone elses page on the net, and we offer the 
help for disadvantaged that no one can! Can't solve your problems? We CAN!
We learned the ancient trick to solving all emotional problems, but it'll
cost you unless you are poor and can prove it. WRITE US TODAY!

White Bird Clinic




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Douglas L. Peterson" 
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 12:20:04 +0800
To: "William H. Geiger III" 
Subject: Re: y2k/gary north delusions
In-Reply-To: <199812062023.PAA001.79@whgiii>
Message-ID: <366CAFEE.583BC1DE@chisp.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



William H. Geiger III wrote:
> 
> In <366A26C2.30D6892E@nyu.edu>, on 12/06/98
>    at 01:40 AM, Michael Hohensee  said:
> 
> >William H. Geiger III wrote:
> >>
> >> In <36694C23.B4CB9509@nyu.edu>, on 12/05/98
> >>    at 10:07 AM, Michael Hohensee  said:
> >>
> >> >Then we're back to doing it in the open.  Less concentrated cities might
> >> >last a while longer, but not much longer.  There's no getting around it,
> >> >we *need* working sewer systems to have modern cities.  Otherwise, the
> >> >cities die.
> >>
> >> And you say this as if it is a bad thing.
> >>
> 
> >Well it is, sorta.  I've got the misfortune to live in NYC, as do many
> >many many other people.  People who (like me) aren't particularly
> >interested in dying of disease and/or starvation.  If the "shit hits the
> >fan", we're in for a serious mess, in any event. :/
> 
> It is your choice to live in the cesspool know as NYC. I am originally
> from Chicago, I got the hell out of there the 1st chance I got and have
> never looked back.

I've been to Chicago exactly once.  I went to the Sears Tower,
and with the exception of the lake, *ALL* I could see was city
and smog!  I will not go back.


> Large metropolitan complexes are obsolete and their problems greatly
> outweigh their benefits. I am a land owner and *like* owning land, I enjoy
> having grass and trees, streams to fish and swim in, not living in a cage
> with my neighbors on the other side of a paper thin wall. I have enough
> land that I could plow it up and do subsistence farming to survive if the
> collapse ever comes (subsidized with fishing and hunting).

My "cage" is in the suburbs, but I have to agree, it is still
a cage.  I can't wait to get my own land.

> Why anyone would want to live like a rat is beyond me.

Some people are born and raised that way.  They don't know 
anything else.  And what they don't know, scares them.

-Doug
www.TheServerFarm.net




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 20:52:35 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Quick ping about Surety Technologies
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 00:17:17 -0500 (EST)
From: 
To: rah@shipwright.com
Subject: Re: Quick ping about Surety Technologies

> *That*'s interesting. Haven't heard it before. If you want, I'll bounce it
> around.

If you would, that would be interesting.  The patent info on their web
site includes:

	Method for secure timestamping of digital documents.
	U.S. Patent No. 5,136,647, issued August 4, 1992.
	U.S. Patent Re. 34,954, reissued May 30, 1995.

	The initial patent issue covers a variety of fundamental
	technology and algorithmic components of digital
	timestamping. More specifically, the claims cover:

	* Any use of an outside party's digital signature to timestamp
	  a document.
	* The "hash-and-sign" method in which the outside party receives
	  the one-way hash of the document to be timestamped.

I distrust software patents, but even that aside, these sound really
broad to me.  More info at .




--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 13:44:28 +0800
To: bennett@peacefire.org
Subject: Re: DSA for encryption
Message-ID: <199812080525.GAA32479@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Sun, 06 Dec 1998 22:25:57 -0600, Bennett Haselton 
wrote:

>I'm working on an enhancement to a Web-based program that allows you to
>circumvent proxy server censorship by sending a request for a Web page to a
>computer in the outside world that is not blocked by the proxy, and having
>that computer re-send a copy of the banned page back to you.

Good idea!

>Of course, any manufacturer of Internet censorship proxy server software
>could easily add ians.ml.org to their list of blocked sites (as they have
>all already done with Anonymizer), so the idea would be for people to get
>their friends to set up port-forwarding programs on computers that were not
>blocked by the censoring proxy, and those could be set up to relay requests
>between the IANS server and the computer behind the proxy server.

It may not be so easy to get people to set up port-forwarding programs.
These could be a target for hackers seeking to cover their tracks as they
try break-ins.  Also, how many people in this day of commercial ISPs are
able to set up port-forwarding programs?

It would seem more promising to make your web page script be simple
and portable enough that even users of AOL and free webpage hosts like
GeoCities would be able to install it.

>I am working on a JavaScript form that could be used on the client side to
>solve this problem.  We would like to use DSA to encrypt the requests sent
>using IANS, since I've heard DSA can be used for encryption without
>royalties, unlike, for example, RSA.

DSA per se is probably not your best choice - unless you already have a
DSA implementation which you want to try to use.  DSA is a signature
algorithm, and while it is sometimes possible to use a DSA implementation
to do encryption, it is not particularly convenient.

What you want to do is to use the mathematical principle behind DSA, which
is the difficulty of solving the discrete log problem, and use an encryption
algorithm which relies on that same math problem, namely Diffie-Hellman or
ElGamal encryption.

If you need to use DSA, Bruce Schneier describes in his book Applied
Cryptography how to get the effect of ElGamal encryption.  Here is what
he writes, on page 490:

: ElGamal Encryption with DSA
: 
: There have been allegations that the government likes the DSA because it is
: only a digital signature algorithm and can't be used for encryption.  It is,
: however, possible to use the DSA function call to do ElGamal encryption.
: 
: Assume that the DSA algorithm is implemented with a single function call:
: 
:     DSAsign (p, q, g, k, x, h, r, s)
: 
: You supply the numbers p, q, g, k, x, and h, and the function returns the
: signature parameters: r and s.
: 
: To do ElGamal encryption of message m with public key y, choose a random
: number k, and call
: 
:     DSAsign (p, p, g, k, 0, 0, r, s)
: 
: The value of r returned is a in the ElGamal scheme.  Throw s away.  Then,
: call
: 
:     DSAsign (p, p, y, k, 0, 0, r, s)
: 
: Rename the value of r to be u; throw s away.  Call
: 
:     DSAsign (p, p, m, 1, u, 0, r, s)
: 
: Throw r away.  The value of s returned is b in the ElGamal scheme.  You now
: have the ciphertext, a and b.
: 
: Decryption is just as easy.  Using secret key x, and ciphertext messages
: a and b, call
: 
:     DSAsign (p, p, a, x, 0, 0, r, s)
: 
: The value r is a^x mod p.  Call that e.  Then call
: 
:     DSAsign (p, p, 1, e, b, 0, r, s)
: 
: The value s is the plaintext message, m.
: 
: This method will not work with all implementations of DSA.  Some may fix
: the value sof p and q, or the lengths of some of the other parameters.
: Still, if the implementation is general enough, this is a way to encrypt
: using nothing more than digital signature function.

If you need more information about what the various values mean, or how
to create a DSA and/or ElGamal key, just ask.

Really, ElGamal is simple enough that if you have access to a large-number
math package, writing your own is probably easier than trying to get DSA
to do it.  It is unlikely that you will find a DSA implementation which
allows you to specify all the needed parameters above, particularly h
and k.  Usually h is forgotten after key generation and not used during
signature, and implementions will probably want to choose k themselves
since it is a very sensitive parameter.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Duncan Frissell 
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 20:24:38 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Wiretap Operation Sheds Light on LAPD Tactics
In-Reply-To: <199812072323.AAA32006@replay.com>
Message-ID: <199812081158.GAA20172@mail1.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 12:23 AM 12/8/98 +0100, Anonymous wrote:
>If it is Monday, December 7, 1998, you can go to
>http://www.latimes.com/HOME/NEWS/STATE/topstory.html and read about how
>Los Angeles police wiretapped a small cellular phone service provider
>because his policies were too helpful for drug dealers.  He didn't try
>hard enough to verify customer names, he sold cell phones with built in
>scramblers, he allowed customers to change phones and numbers easily.

So when are the cops going after Radio Shack, Sprint, Omnipoint, Bell
Atlantic, etc that sell card-fed phones in the New York area?

DCF





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 22:15:04 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin Walls (fwd)
Message-ID: <199812081346.HAA09950@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Subject: Re: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin Walls (fwd)
> Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 14:11:14 +0100 (NFT)
> From: ulf@fitug.de (Ulf =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=F6ller?=)

> According to Jim Choate:
> 
> > And this is different from yesterday how?
> 
> It is different in that it has been legal to distribute PGP and any
> other public domain and mass market crypto software from Denmark
> up to now.

Ah, so the call is for folks in Denmark to post the various pieces of
currently available software then, not everyone on the planet as it appears.

Don't think so.

He's asking that people put PGP and other available software on their
websites without the current export controls. If he's not then he's not
doing anything except blowing empty bugles because people are already doing
what he's asking for. In that situation he's after reputation capital,
personal gain.

> > Are you offering to put up your monies to provide any and all legal and
> > other support for any such site that participates? When is your site going
> > up?
> 
> John Gilmore's RSAREF site went up about a year ago. Your point being what?

Exactly what it states above. If you don't get it to bad.

RSAREF is not quite what he is asking folks to do now is it.

Bottem line, Gilmore is asking folks to run out and put their livelyhood and
their life at risk. What's he going to do for those who comply with his 
request?

Let me ask you this Ulf, when is YOUR site going up? When will YOU be the
first European repeater for the CDR? Your address implies you're in Denmark.
What are you going to do for YOUR liberty today? Has Gilmore agreed to
help fund YOUR fight of the change in your courts?

Bottem line, when will you get off your butt and put your neck in the noose
like many of the rest of us?

The reality is that the change in Denmark's law changes the global picture
very little.

Now when Denmark quites letting people IMPORT PGP *and* places like the US
quite letting people export it in some media (currently paper & ink) then
you'll have cause to really be indignent.


    ____________________________________________________________________

           If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me
           in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation,
           it is: bullying
                                                Howard Zinn

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 22:06:05 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin Walls (fwd)
Message-ID: <199812081349.HAA10098@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 11:39:33 GMT
> From: Adam Back 
> Subject: Re: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin Walls (fwd)

> > And this is different from yesterday how?
> 
> What's different is that this is Denmark now.  Before it was just the
> US.

And Canada, France, England, China, South Africa, etc., etc., etc.

It was NEVER *just* the US.

> > Are you offering to put up your monies to provide any and all legal and
> > other support for any such site that participates? When is your site going
> > up?
> 
> John said that people should put up per country mirrors first globally
> accessible, but if required by local laws / harrassment to stop doing
> that make them accessible only in the country.

And this reduces their footprint with their LEA's how?

> As a fall back position as I understand it, so that all the useful
> crypto apps are still available.

Which doesn't change my original question one whit. What is Gilmore going to
do with his may resources to protect those who participate?


    ____________________________________________________________________

           If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me
           in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation,
           it is: bullying
                                                Howard Zinn

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 22:12:18 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin  Walls (fwd)
Message-ID: <199812081354.HAA10195@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 08 Dec 1998 12:53:51 +0100
> From: Mok-Kong Shen 
> Subject: Re: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin  Walls

> Tim Griffiths wrote:
> 
> > However I 'export' PGP from the US, I'm exporting it, even if I have a
> > web site for each bit, 0 or 1 being determined by whether Clinton has
> > a cigar or not in a posted picture.
> 
> Hence the best way, once there are strict export regulations, is not 
> to export. One moves rather knowledge (thought) across the country 
> boundaries and there build locally the desired software. That's why 
> I believe it will be increasingly more essential for the future to 
> have good crypto algorithms that are very simple to describe and
> implement.

Interesting aspect to a cypherpunks archive. Archive the software as well as
the technical documentation required to write it from scratch.


    ____________________________________________________________________

           If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me
           in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation,
           it is: bullying
                                                Howard Zinn

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 22:19:09 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin (fwd)
Message-ID: <199812081357.HAA10256@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 08 Dec 1998 02:28:18 -0800
> From: x 
> Subject: Re: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin
>    Walls

> >1. What is the point of the obfuscation? If it's not legal to do it
> >openly, then it's certainly not legal to hide the fact your doing it.
> >"The accused did it in such a way as to demonstrate that he was aware
> >of it's illegality".
> 
> the point is not to hide anything; the point is to expand, arbitrarily (and
> this was a trivial example), the f() that takes bits from a controllable
> image to one that is not.

In other words, hide it. A distributed stego hash algorithm.

It quacks like a duck. It waddles like a duck. It swims like a duck.

It would actualy be criminal collusion and would give the LEA's in the
relevant areas the necessary reason (ie probable cause) to act in concert,
creating a bigger big brother.

Hardly a cpunks goal.


    ____________________________________________________________________

           If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me
           in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation,
           it is: bullying
                                                Howard Zinn

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 23:18:37 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: The problem with 'Gilmore's RSAREF' site...
Message-ID: <199812081450.IAA10578@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Here's the bottem line issue with Gilmore's RSAREF site.

It isn't Gilmore's, it's EFF's.

It isn't Gilmore's butt on the line as it would be for person who
participate in his call to action.

What's EFF going to do to protect those participants? Nothing.

What's Gilmore personaly going to do to protect those participants? Nothing.

He's asking others to put their butt in the line of fire while he sits
safely in a rear area.

In effect he's asking YOU to be cannon fodder for his rights.



    ____________________________________________________________________

           If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me
           in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation,
           it is: bullying
                                                Howard Zinn

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 23:18:29 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: Re: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin Walls (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199812080331.VAA07823@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <199812081419.JAA21468@camel8.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



In response to John Gilmore's call for a foil to US-Wassenaar
restrictions acoming, we've put up a preliminary list of international 
cryptography sources for mirroring:

   http://jya.com/crypto-free.htm

This is a quick starter-kit and is far from comprehensive.
Contributions welcome.

Ken Williams offers an impressive (177MB) crypto/stego archive:

  http://www.genocide2600.com/~tattooman/cryptography/






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Gillogly 
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 03:45:52 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Government-enraging programs
Message-ID: <366D66F0.E1DC0F7B@acm.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



John Young writes:
> What would help is a list from experts on what are the most gov-enraging 
> programs. We'd like to offer a few of those on jya.com, to test BXA's up-and-
> running crypto-enforcement program, maybe get some jail and trial pleasure,
> it's been too quiet on Bernstein, Junger, Karn, et al, a deliberate gov-stall,
> awaiting Wassenaar.

One way to determine which programs are the best for this purpose would be
to study what various governments have taken some action on.  Some obvious ones:

  PGP (various versions, high level of government interest)
  Snuffle (extended US litigation)
  All the AES candidates (strictly-controlled dissemination from NIST)
  SecureOffice (Charles Booher's program -- US government has taken action)
  Applied Cryptography disk (US export license denied)

It would also be nice to have an infrastructural component, such as (when
ready for mass distribution) the Linux/FreeSWAN IPSec release; this doesn't
have quite the cachet of programs on which the government has already weighed
in, though.
-- 
	Jim Gillogly
	Sterday, 18 Foreyule S.R. 1998, 17:40
	12.19.5.13.11, 10 Chuen 4 Mac, First Lord of Night




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 01:12:08 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: The problem with 'Gilmore's RSAREF' site... (fwd)
Message-ID: <199812081627.KAA11330@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 08 Dec 1998 10:45:56 -0500
> From: Duncan Frissell 
> Subject: Re: The problem with 'Gilmore's RSAREF' site...

> 
> Save that the cowards have never busted anyone for crypto exports.  It's
> dead letter law.  They know they'd lose a criminal case against a civilian.
> 

So, when do you bring your site with unconstrained access to PGP up?


    ____________________________________________________________________

           If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me
           in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation,
           it is: bullying
                                                Howard Zinn

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Duncan Frissell 
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 00:31:35 +0800
To: "Blanc" 
Subject: RE: I Got Mine
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199812081533.KAA12935@mail1.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 08:39 PM 12/3/98 -0800, Blanc wrote:
>(Yes, but how do you actually respond to a real
>live representative standing at your door (they showed me their Batches),
to a
>real-live situtation when you are taken to a little room and asked to strip
>("asked"?) at the airport?)   

I was discussing this very question with the inamorata of a member of this
list recently in San Jose.  We were trying to figure out why I knew
instinctively what to say when confronted with government agents and she
didn't (though she is an attorney).  I figured out that it was because I
read Heinlein.  He taught a lot about how to respond to these things.
Those who haven't read Heinlein (or don't learn from books) won't know what
to say.  And in these high stress situations, answers which you have
thought about in advance or conducted mental simulations with will come out
more easily.  

You say - "Go away."  "Write me a letter."  "I only deal with government
agents via my lawyer."  "Where's Your Warrant."  Or how about -- "My
lawyer's name is X, I have officially informed you that I am represented by
counsel and thus you cannot question me without counsel being present."

When they write a letter, you handle it the way Rumpole of the Baily
handled those letters from the Inland Revenue.  You throw it away.

Some years ago at 5000 Bonny Doone Road Santa Cruz, CA an IRS agent rang
the bell outside the gate in the fence of the reinforced concrete house
owned by Robert Anson Heinlein.  He wanted to talk.  Heinlein said "go
away" "write a letter."  The Agent said "you're not going to make me drive
all the way back to San Jose, are you?"  Heinlein said "Yes."

You don't have to talk to government agents -- even if they arrest you.
Saying "No" and "Go Away" is short and easy to say.  

>And above all else, beyond being
>symbolically defiant, I would first aim for being Real.   It can be the
hardest
>thing to do, stand your ground and be calm and real.

Just Say No.

DCF




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jyri Kaljundi 
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 16:56:08 +0800
To: Peter Gutmann 
Subject: Re: What was the quid pro quo for Wassenaar countries?
In-Reply-To: <91301833500932@cs26.cs.auckland.ac.nz>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




On Mon, 7 Dec 1998, Peter Gutmann wrote:

> One thing which came to me recently when I was trying to figure out what sort 
> of gun the US held to the rest of the world's head to get them to agree to 
> this: Could the Wassenaar outcome have been a sign of Echelon in action?

Much more I believe it could have been the promise of US to allow the W
countries to use the Echelon system sometimes. Something like in case your
country needs access to the system, it might be possible to order this
service from US Echelon Co. Of course US either would allow it in cases
like international terrorism threats, not for spying on European political
organs, technological and development and research organisations US
probably is using it for today. And it could be just a promise by US. 

Why this thing might have worked would be because the level education and
understanding of US and European representatives at these issues (Echelon,
communications wiretapping) could be very different, so the non-US
politicians might have not understood what they were really voting on. And
of course the government of every country in the world is always happy if
it can spy on anyone. Sad that they do not understand that the crypto
software today is a little bit too advanced and freely available that who
wants can still use it. 

Jyri Kaljundi
jk@stallion.ee
AS Stallion Ltd
http://www.stallion.ee/




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Duncan Frissell 
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 00:33:00 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Export of PGP Illegal in Denmark. Threatened w. jail (fwd)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199812081533.KAA12990@mail1.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>Hi
>This is a true story. Denmark now - along with the whole EU - has
>assimilated US-crypto laws.
>I just had a phone conversation with the danish ministry of commerce,
>the export control division. The kind lady I spoke to threatened me with
>fines or jail for up to two years.
>
>For having PGP for free download on my homepage!
>
>I called the division to hear about the Wassenaar arrangement on
>export-restrictions on strong crypto and its consequences. So I ask this
>lady something like: I have this strong crypto program called PGP on my
>homepage. What should I do. Does this Wassenaar arrangement concern me?
>	'It sure does', she replies, and start to ask a lot of questions about
>my homepage - does it have unlimited global access etc. And then she
>says: 'You better take it down', and starts to reiterate the legal
>aspects, e.g. two laws from EU on export restrictions.
>	Specifically she points out the penal code: Fines. Jail.
>	So...


What you say in this case is "The Wassenaar arrangement was changed in
secret a few days ago.  It is merely advisory.  Has the efficient Denmark
bureaucracy had time to change the laws and regs since then or are you just
blowing hot air?"

DCF




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 00:41:08 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: Re: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Ber
In-Reply-To: <199812081527.KAA07438@unix1.worldlynx.net>
Message-ID: <199812081552.KAA12917@camel8.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



David Beroff wrote:

>Wait a sec.  Maybe I'm confused.  I thought you were talking about
>mass-mirroring the  *content*  of key sites, not just the URL pointers.
>
>I would imagine that a small committee would have to "edit" by 
>suggesting what should and shouldn't be included; one must realize
>that if the final file is too large, people will be discouraged from
mirroring.

Yes, Gilmore's proposal was to mirror the contents; URLs threaten
no reg-makers.

Yep, mirrors of everything would be very large. We've heard already
that folks would like help in knowing what to mirror if they can't do
large archives, or can't easily decide which are most important. 

My advice so far: mirror whatever you can until better advice comes forth. 
Prime need: many mirrors of the strongest stuff, especially anything above 
40-bits, that is anything that now requires a US export license (which appears
to be where Wassenaar wildebeests and the domestic US is being stampeded).

What would help is a list from experts on what are the most gov-enraging 
programs. We'd like to offer a few of those on jya.com, to test BXA's up-and-
running crypto-enforcement program, maybe get some jail and trial pleasure,
it's been too quiet on Bernstein, Junger, Karn, et al, a deliberate gov-stall,
awaiting Wassenaar.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Duncan Frissell 
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 00:51:34 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: <199812081541.KAA14344@mail1.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 08:50 AM 12/8/98 -0600, Jim Choate wrote:
>Here's the bottem line issue with Gilmore's RSAREF site.
>
>It isn't Gilmore's, it's EFF's.
>
>It isn't Gilmore's butt on the line as it would be for person who
>participate in his call to action.
>
>What's EFF going to do to protect those participants? Nothing.
>
>What's Gilmore personaly going to do to protect those participants? Nothing.
>
>He's asking others to put their butt in the line of fire while he sits
>safely in a rear area.
>
>In effect he's asking YOU to be cannon fodder for his rights.

Save that the cowards have never busted anyone for crypto exports.  It's
dead letter law.  They know they'd lose a criminal case against a civilian.

DCF

"Who personally exported RSA/PERL labels to an alien working for a UK
newspaper at the 1995 CFP at the SFO Marriot."




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 01:37:53 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin Walls (fwd)
Message-ID: <199812081647.KAA11529@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 08 Dec 1998 17:28:59 +0100
> From: Mok-Kong Shen 
> Subject: Re: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin Walls (fwd)

> For longer term it might be desirable to have a site in a crypto-
> politics neutral country (one that is unlikely to have crypto laws
> in foreseeable future) to which software could be uploaded.
> Downloading is then import and not subject to restriction.

Where? Where is there a country that has a social, economic, and legal
infrastructure of sufficient breadth but liberal views of speech to support
such an effort?

There are lots of little countries around but they have unstable
governments, no economy to speak of, limited telecommunications
infrastructure, etc.

It's fine and dandy to talk about this in the theoretic but the rubber has
to hit the road at some point.

There isn't such a country to be had.


    ____________________________________________________________________

           If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me
           in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation,
           it is: bullying
                                                Howard Zinn

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: landon dyer 
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 04:44:40 +0800
To: Duncan Frissell 
Subject: Re: I Got Mine
In-Reply-To: <199812081702.LAA05425@manifold.algebra.com>
Message-ID: <4.1.19981208104711.00a36dd0@shell9.ba.best.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




>There's a great deal of legal commentary in Heinlein. 

my favorite, from _The Number of the Beast_

the protagonists land in an alternate universe, a very nice
version of the US, a good safe haven.  there are no lawyers,
and all references to "The Year they Hung the Lawyers" have
been scrubbed from the readily available history books...



-landon (re-lurking)




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 02:25:07 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin Walls (fwd)
Message-ID: <199812081658.KAA11596@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Subject: Re: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin Walls (fwd)
> Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 16:43:58 +0100 (MET)
> From: 3umoelle@informatik.uni-hamburg.de (Ulf =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=F6ller?=)

> > Ah, so the call is for folks in Denmark to post the various pieces of
> > currently available software then, not everyone on the planet as it appears.
> 
> It is not just about Denmark. The Wassenaar arrangement has been
> signed by 33 countries, including the US, Canada, the European Union,
> Japan, Australia, New Zealand, Norway and others. Up to now, 30 of
> these states have allowed to export mass market and public domain
> crypto software without a license. Only the US, France and NZ did not
> have the "General Software Note".

Which is EXACTLY my point. People are being asked to put their butts on the
line with no infrastructure or plan for what happens when the LEA's show up.

Such poor planning is doomed to fail.

> The US has exercised extreme pressure at the Wassenaar conference (as
> one German government official writes) and has managed to get the
> General Software Note modified. Now the states that have signed the
> arrangement will have to regulate the export of strong
> cryptography. There are other places such as Brazil, Iceland, South
> Africa, India, and even Singapore which do not have any export
> restrictions. 

And look at their social, economic, and civil liberty records. Other than
Iceland not one area on  your list of places has sufficient resources of the
correct type to support this sort of effort.

Iceland is about the only place that has any hope at all.

Is there any move by any group to start some sort of archive there? Are
there any subscribers from Iceland on the CDR? If so, I'd like their view
on how realistic it would be to host a site in Iceland.

> John Gilmore writes: "I call for volunteers in each country, at each
> university or crypto-aware organization, to download crypto tools
> while they can still be exported from where they are, and then to
> offer them for export from your own site and your own country as long
> as it's legal."                                               ^^^^^^^
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Which is exactly what is needed in this situation.

Which, again, is my point. What is Gilmore going to do when they decide to
make it illegal and start hassling these folks who were kind enough to back
him? What does he OWE them for their participation in HIS movement?

> RSAREF is what he has determined he can legally export from the US. So,
> yes, he is doing what he also asks others to do.

Hm, funny. Looks like EFF owns that site. Gilmore is doing nothing himself.
He's using EFF as a shield for personal liability. Why isn't he suggesting
that others do this instead of direct and personal action? Why is he not
running the gilmore.org site directly? Why isn't he looking at starting some
sort of international organization similar to EFF, or expanding EFF to do
this sort of stuff and at the same time provide the same sort of legal
shield he currently enjoys?

> > Let me ask you this Ulf, when is YOUR site going up?
> 
> My university is already distributing SSLeay, PGP, ssh, cfs and other
> cypto tools. As long as they continue to do so, I won't make my mirror
> available on the web, but my own crypto site is going up later this
> week with another piece of strong crypto software.

Kudos.

> > What are you going to do for YOUR liberty today? Has Gilmore agreed to
> > help fund YOUR fight of the change in your courts?
> 
> Today I am going to create the distribution of the software I have
> been working on in the past months, have the server set up and, if all
> goes well, upload the file.
> 
> I have made a few thousand dollars on developing crypto software and I
> am ready to use much of that money to defend my right to distribute
> the results of my work on the web. I haven't asked John or anybody
> else to help me.

But John IS asking you, me, and others to help him.


    ____________________________________________________________________

           If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me
           in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation,
           it is: bullying
                                                Howard Zinn

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 02:29:39 +0800
To: frissell@panix.com (Duncan Frissell)
Subject: Re: I Got Mine
In-Reply-To: <199812081533.KAA12935@mail1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <199812081702.LAA05425@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



What are those books?

igor

Duncan Frissell wrote:
> 
> 
> At 08:39 PM 12/3/98 -0800, Blanc wrote:
> >(Yes, but how do you actually respond to a real
> >live representative standing at your door (they showed me their Batches),
> to a
> >real-live situtation when you are taken to a little room and asked to strip
> >("asked"?) at the airport?)   
> 
> I was discussing this very question with the inamorata of a member of this
> list recently in San Jose.  We were trying to figure out why I knew
> instinctively what to say when confronted with government agents and she
> didn't (though she is an attorney).  I figured out that it was because I
> read Heinlein.  He taught a lot about how to respond to these things.
> Those who haven't read Heinlein (or don't learn from books) won't know what
> to say.  And in these high stress situations, answers which you have
> thought about in advance or conducted mental simulations with will come out
> more easily.  
> 
> You say - "Go away."  "Write me a letter."  "I only deal with government
> agents via my lawyer."  "Where's Your Warrant."  Or how about -- "My
> lawyer's name is X, I have officially informed you that I am represented by
> counsel and thus you cannot question me without counsel being present."
> 
> When they write a letter, you handle it the way Rumpole of the Baily
> handled those letters from the Inland Revenue.  You throw it away.
> 
> Some years ago at 5000 Bonny Doone Road Santa Cruz, CA an IRS agent rang
> the bell outside the gate in the fence of the reinforced concrete house
> owned by Robert Anson Heinlein.  He wanted to talk.  Heinlein said "go
> away" "write a letter."  The Agent said "you're not going to make me drive
> all the way back to San Jose, are you?"  Heinlein said "Yes."
> 
> You don't have to talk to government agents -- even if they arrest you.
> Saying "No" and "Go Away" is short and easy to say.  
> 
> >And above all else, beyond being
> >symbolically defiant, I would first aim for being Real.   It can be the
> hardest
> >thing to do, stand your ground and be calm and real.
> 
> Just Say No.
> 
> DCF
> 



	- Igor.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 02:02:18 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Ber (fwd)
Message-ID: <199812081704.LAA11667@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 08 Dec 1998 10:41:33 -0500
> From: John Young 
> Subject: Re: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Ber

> Yes, Gilmore's proposal was to mirror the contents; URLs threaten
> no reg-makers.
> 
> Yep, mirrors of everything would be very large. We've heard already
> that folks would like help in knowing what to mirror if they can't do
> large archives, or can't easily decide which are most important. 

[text deleted]

> What would help is a list from experts on what are the most gov-enraging 
> programs. We'd like to offer a few of those on jya.com, to test BXA's up-and-
> running crypto-enforcement program, maybe get some jail and trial pleasure,
> it's been too quiet on Bernstein, Junger, Karn, et al, a deliberate gov-stall,
> awaiting Wassenaar.

Besides enraging, it should also include the necessary documents,
monographs, libraries, etc. to empower others to write the code within their
own legal boundaries.

If somebody makes the effort to compile such a list I'd like to personaly
request they include this in addition to finished product.



    ____________________________________________________________________

           If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me
           in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation,
           it is: bullying
                                                Howard Zinn

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 05:21:29 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: RE: The problem with 'Gilmore's RSAREF' site...
Message-ID: <5F152E6E8E6FD21195DF00104B2425AD02B335@yarrowbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate wrote:
> In effect he's asking YOU to be cannon fodder for his rights.

No, he's asking people who are willing to act in their own self-interest to
protect the flow of strong crypto. Note he didn't even ask people to do so
as civil disobedience (illegally), which I would myself be more than willing
to do could I afford the bandwidth and legal fees.

If you have no self-interest, then shut up and don't participate. You're in
the USS Republic of Texas anyway.

	Matt


"Anyone who fights for the future,
lives in it today."  --Ayn Rand




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 20:24:32 +0800
To: ravage@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: Re: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin Walls (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199812080331.VAA07823@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <199812081139.LAA18806@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate writes:
> > The US Wassenaar initiative is an attempt to deny the public not only
> > all future strong crypto developments, but all existing ones.  As
> > today's message from Denmark makes clear, the freedom-hating
> > bureaucrats are threatening to prosecute a citizen merely for
> > publishing PGP on his web page.
> 
> And this is different from yesterday how?

What's different is that this is Denmark now.  Before it was just the
US.

> > Let's at least ensure that they don't eliminate *today's* strong
> > crypto, by replicating crypto archives behind each Berlin Wall they
> > threaten to erect.
> 
> Are you offering to put up your monies to provide any and all legal and
> other support for any such site that participates? When is your site going
> up?

John said that people should put up per country mirrors first globally
accessible, but if required by local laws / harrassment to stop doing
that make them accessible only in the country.

As a fall back position as I understand it, so that all the useful
crypto apps are still available.

Adam




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim Griffiths 
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 18:23:42 +0800
To: x 
Message-ID: <366CF6FD.DBBE7AD2@wis.weizmann.ac.il>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



x wrote:
> 
> This brings to mind again a method of distribution that I've thought for
> some time and has probably been discussed on this list before...
> For (a trivial) example take the image of PGP zipped up for download.
> Three different sites create a unique portion of that image for
> themselves, for example, each site takes every third byte, and throw
> in some additional obfuscation...It then is trivial to reconstruct
> the desired image from the independent sources, while none of the
> sources themselves can be subject to controls without having to go
> down the rat hole of having to define what really constitutes the
> restricted material...

1. What is the point of the obfuscation? If it's not legal to do it
openly, then it's certainly not legal to hide the fact your doing it.
"The accused did it in such a way as to demonstrate that he was aware
of it's illegality".

2. By your example, you could also take a cruise missile apart, and
ship each part separately. After all, none of it is actually a missile.

However I 'export' PGP from the US, I'm exporting it, even if I have a
web site for each bit, 0 or 1 being determined by whether Clinton has
a cigar or not in a posted picture.
Yes, the law is inconsistent (let alone stupid). Not, I wouldn't want
to try this and expect to be immune from prosecution.

Tim G

--
Tim Griffiths                   griffith@wis.weizmann.ac.il
Center for Submicron Research   http://tim01.ex.ac.uk
Weizmann Institute of Science   (972)-8-934-2736
Rehovot 76100 Israel

 'I have sat and listened to the arguments of men,
  and I tell you they are shallow movements in space
  tied to reality only by the ego of their minds.' -DF




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 04:26:59 +0800
To: frissell@panix.com (Duncan Frissell)
Subject: Re: I Got Mine
In-Reply-To: <199812081757.MAA06069@mail1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <199812081807.MAA06805@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Duncan Frissell wrote:
> 
> At 11:02 AM 12/8/98 -0600, Igor Chudov @ home wrote:
> >What are those books?
> >
> >igor
> 
> Stranger In a Strange Land
> 
> "UN Secret Police breaking down door while Jubal contacts the Secretary
> General via his astrologer."

Duncan,

I apologize for my ignorance. I am not very well aware of this Heinlein
fellow.

What I am looking for is a practical guide book on how to deal with
cops and other law enforcement/jackbooted thug types, in the manner
that minimizes my long term damage. Something along the lines of "You
and the Police!", by Boston T. Party, a book that I greatly enjoyed.

The ideal book would explain my rights, typical reactions of LE, 
precedents, some practical matters, dealing with hostile LE, etc etc.
Would be especially valuable to me as I am a foreigner.

What I am NOT looking for is something about UN troops hiding in
my backyard, choosing the best gun to shoot tax collectors, etc.

igor

> Rocket Ship Galileo
> 
> "Launching before being served by court order -- see also 'The Man Who Sold
> the Moon' and the movie 'Destination Moon'."
> 
> The Notebooks of Lazaraus Long
> 
> "Beware of strong drink.  It might make you shoot at tax collectors -- and
> miss."
> 
> There's a great deal of legal commentary in Heinlein.  There are more
> references where he comments on the need for warrants for searches.  It is
> a very common theme in other right wing/libertarian SF as well.
> 
> DCF
> 
> "
> 



	- Igor.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: damaged justice 
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 03:17:37 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Survey Says Kids Feel 'Threatened' By Internet
Message-ID: <19981208124833.A13068@yakko.cs.wmich.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




   A survey has suggested that up to half a million British children may
   have been upset by something they have seen on the Internet.
   
   The NOP poll shows that one in five of nearly 4,000 children between
   the ages of six and 16 interviewed for the survey between September
   and October this year were "uncomfortable" with some content viewed
   on-line.
   
   In the UK, 2.4 million children are estimated to use the Internet -
   roughly a third of all children between six and 16.
   
   Of those who have had negative experiences while surfing the Internet,
   the largest proportion - 40% - had seen something "rude".
   
   'Not surprised'
   
   One in seven said they had encountered content that had "freightened
   them", while 25% saw pages that they thought "would get them into
   trouble".
   
   NOP Associate Director Rob Lawson described the numbers as a
   "significant minority".
   
   The children's charity NCH Action for Children suggested the survey
   strengthened calls for Internet regulation to protect younger users.
   
   Charity spokesman John Carr said: "I regret to say I'm not surprised
   by this survey's findings, it's what we have been saying for some
   time.
   
   Net nannies
   
   "Parents need to know their children are surfing the net in safety and
   security. At the moment, they have no way of knowing that at all."
   
   NCH Action for Children, which advises the government on children's
   issues, backs the introduction of "net nannies" - programmes which
   filter out content unsuitable for children.
   
   The survey, called Kids.net, was paid for by Microsoft, the BBC,
   NatWest and Anglia Multimedia in syndicate.
   
   The Department of Trade and Industry's forthcoming review on Internet
   regulation is expected to be published before Christmas.

[from news.bbs.co.uk]




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mok-Kong Shen 
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 20:38:01 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin  Walls
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19691231160000.006fd6e8@shell15.ba.best.com>
Message-ID: <366D134F.54FFCEA4@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Tim Griffiths wrote:

> However I 'export' PGP from the US, I'm exporting it, even if I have a
> web site for each bit, 0 or 1 being determined by whether Clinton has
> a cigar or not in a posted picture.

Hence the best way, once there are strict export regulations, is not 
to export. One moves rather knowledge (thought) across the country 
boundaries and there build locally the desired software. That's why 
I believe it will be increasingly more essential for the future to 
have good crypto algorithms that are very simple to describe and
implement. Whether these are very fast is at most of secondary
importance. For really very critical applications seldom involve
huge volumes and even if they do the computing cost hardly matters
and one can employ multiple hardware to achieve the required
rate of transmission.

M. K. Shen

------------------------------------------------------
M. K. Shen, Postfach 340238, D-80099 Muenchen, Germany
+49 (89) 831939   (6:00 GMT)
mok-kong.shen@stud.uni-muenchen.de
http://www.stud.uni-muenchen.de/~mok-kong.shen/     (Last updated: 
10th October 1998.  Origin site of WEAK1, WEAK2, WEAK3 and WEAK3-E.
Containing 2 mathematical problems with rewards totalling US$500.)




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 03:47:41 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: Re: The problem with 'Gilmore's RSAREF' site...
In-Reply-To: <199812081450.IAA10578@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <199812081805.NAA19779@camel8.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Duncan Frissell  wrote:

>Save that the cowards have never busted anyone for crypto exports.  It's
>dead letter law.  They know they'd lose a criminal case against a civilian.

But isn't the punishment a fine rather than a bust. With the usual grabs
of income and possessions if you don't pau. And then being listed on the
dreaded "Entities Index," BXcommunicated.

Sure, you can take it to trial, and BXA reports on those at its Web site,
actually crows about them, the wins, that is. No losses are ever
posted, lacking a reporting system for those.

In any case, these pockets are bottomless, so mega-fines are just fine, the 
FUSG gonna be in really deep deficit denial if it forfeitures this blackhole.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Duncan Frissell 
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 03:58:51 +0800
To: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov)
Subject: Re: I Got Mine
In-Reply-To: <199812081533.KAA12935@mail1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <199812081757.MAA06069@mail1.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 11:02 AM 12/8/98 -0600, Igor Chudov @ home wrote:
>What are those books?
>
>igor

Stranger In a Strange Land

"UN Secret Police breaking down door while Jubal contacts the Secretary
General via his astrologer."

Rocket Ship Galileo

"Launching before being served by court order -- see also 'The Man Who Sold
the Moon' and the movie 'Destination Moon'."

The Notebooks of Lazaraus Long

"Beware of strong drink.  It might make you shoot at tax collectors -- and
miss."

There's a great deal of legal commentary in Heinlein.  There are more
references where he comments on the need for warrants for searches.  It is
a very common theme in other right wing/libertarian SF as well.

DCF

"




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Sunder 
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 03:53:47 +0800
To: damaged justice 
Subject: Re: Survey Says Kids Feel 'Threatened' By Internet
In-Reply-To: <19981208124833.A13068@yakko.cs.wmich.edu>
Message-ID: <366D6B76.13E6F105@brainlink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



damaged justice wrote:
> 
>    A survey has suggested that up to half a million British children may
>    have been upset by something they have seen on the Internet.

IMHO, we should take a poll that shows that we've all been upset by what
Congress and the TLA's have been doing. :^)  If anything, it would be a whole
more truthful.


-- 
----------------------------  Kaos Keraunos Kybernetos  -------------------
 + ^ +        Sunder          "The   real aim  of current policy is to /|\ 
  \|/    sunder@sunder.net    ensure the continued effectiveness of   /\|/\
<--*-->                       US information warfare assets against   \/|\/
  /|\   In Minitru, Miniluv,  individuals,businesses and governments   \|/ 
 + v +  and Minipax We Trust  in Europe and elsewhere"  -- Ross Anderson
----------------------------  http://www.sunder.net   ---------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Max Inux 
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 06:09:59 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Power Outage in San Fransisco/bay area
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Well, we are going on hour 4 now, most of the power is back.  One group of
2-4 employees caused it they say.  This was admitted 3 hours later, and
then they knew 15 minutes after it happens.. typical.  They expect to be
back on by this afternoon

On the Shell Building at 8:30AM

"Building closed, no power.  Power will not be restored for 6-8 hours."

I wonder how they knew.  The estimate is probably about right too, wierd.

The mission village sub-station has been re-oppened, and most peoples
power is now being revived.  Funny how 2-4 people not following procedure
were able to shut down 4 substations.  Looks like PG&E have lots of work
ahead to find out the cause/effect of this type action.

Max
--   Max Inux   New DH and RSA keys Generated.
               Kinky Sex makes the world go round
       If crypto is outlawed only outlaws will have crypto






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 04:44:12 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: Baker on Gilmore's Foil of Wassenaar
Message-ID: <199812081838.NAA28722@camel8.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Response to a forward of John Gilmore's message to UK Crypto:

Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 09:50:19 -0500
From: 
To: 
Subject: Re:Foil to Wassenaar 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="simple boundary"


I would only add this caution.  I think John is wrong in giving legal 
advice that Wassenaar is not binding without implementing legislation.  
That is an American approach to these matters. I believe that many, 
perhaps most, Wassenaar members derive their authority to regulate 
exports directly from the arrangement itself.  For that reason, I would 
not assume that everyone everywhere is free to ignore the new 
restrictions until some further law or regulation is promulgated.

Stewart Baker
Steptoe & Johnson LLP
202.429.6413
sbaker@steptoe.com

Baker & Hurst, "The Limits of Trust -- Governments, Cryptography, and
Electronic
Commerce" is now available from

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/9041106359






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 05:35:20 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: The problem with 'Gilmore's RSAREF' site... (fwd)
Message-ID: <199812081949.NAA13070@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: Matthew James Gering 
> Subject: RE: The problem with 'Gilmore's RSAREF' site...
> Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 11:20:00 -0800 

> Jim Choate wrote:
> > In effect he's asking YOU to be cannon fodder for his rights.
 
> No, he's asking people who are willing to act in their own self-interest to
> protect the flow of strong crypto. Note he didn't even ask people to do so
> as civil disobedience (illegally), which I would myself be more than willing
> to do could I afford the bandwidth and legal fees.

No, what he's asking people to do is provide a mechanism for politicaly
controversial material to be made available in areas that are legal for
those who are in areas where it isn't legal. If you seriously wish to
propose that won't make you a target then you have no clue how LEA's work.

While he does this behind the legal protection of EFF he's asking others to
do it first person, something he apparently can't find the fortitude to do
himself. Further, he's not willing to extend his legal protection to help 
others.

> If you have no self-interest, then shut up and don't participate. You're in
> the USS Republic of Texas anyway.

What an ignorant statement. When is YOUR CDR node going up (email accounts
are about $25/mo)? I've put up and continue to do so, when do you commit and 
then obtain the morale right to criticize others who are acting in their and
YOUR best interest? I'd guess never, that takes a committment.

Hell, if it wasn't for Igor and myself you wouldn't in all likelyhood even
have this place to bitch. It would have disappered over a year ago. Nobody
else (even the the co-creator TC May) was willing to save it. Now we've got
6 nodes (1 in Japan) which makes it very difficult to completely shut down
legaly, physicaly, or through acts of God (eg tree falls or fires).

You could put up a CDR node and finance it each month by smoking 1/4 ounce
less of your pot. It's cheap, cheap, cheap.

Piss off junior.



    ____________________________________________________________________

           If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me
           in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation,
           it is: bullying
                                                Howard Zinn

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Todd Larason 
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 07:17:05 +0800
To: Anonymous 
Message-ID: <19981208141054.B29422@molehill.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On 981208, Anonymous wrote:
> 
> It appears that www.altaviata.com has been hacked.

What does altaviata.com have to do with Alta Vista?  

> Wish
> DNSsec was deployed, it might of prevented this.

DNSsec will prevent typos?
-- 
ICQ UIN: 126780687




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ulf@fitug.de (Ulf =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=F6ller?=)
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 21:54:06 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin Walls (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199812080331.VAA07823@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <199812081311.OAA112802@public.uni-hamburg.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



According to Jim Choate:

> And this is different from yesterday how?

It is different in that it has been legal to distribute PGP and any
other public domain and mass market crypto software from Denmark
up to now.

> Are you offering to put up your monies to provide any and all legal and
> other support for any such site that participates? When is your site going
> up?

John Gilmore's RSAREF site went up about a year ago. Your point being what?




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Duncan Frissell 
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 05:08:29 +0800
To: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov)
Subject: Re: I Got Mine
In-Reply-To: <199812081757.MAA06069@mail1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <199812081915.OAA18143@mail1.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 12:07 PM 12/8/98 -0600, Igor Chudov @ home wrote:

>What I am looking for is a practical guide book on how to deal with
>cops and other law enforcement/jackbooted thug types, in the manner
>that minimizes my long term damage. Something along the lines of "You
>and the Police!", by Boston T. Party, a book that I greatly enjoyed.

Well here's an article:

How to Break the Law

by Duncan Frissell

http://eastedge.neurospace.net/cyber/xanner/lawbreak.html




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 07:20:36 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: RE: The problem with 'Gilmore's RSAREF' site... (fwd)
Message-ID: <5F152E6E8E6FD21195DF00104B2425AD02B339@yarrowbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




> Further, he's not willing to extend his legal protection to help 
> others.

Has there been any indication that the EFF would not support or help someone
being persecuted for crypto-export disobedience? I wouldn't rely on such
charity, nor is charity ever obligatory (that's socialism), but what reason
do you have to discount it?

The essence of civil disobedience is many many individual targets, not one
organization.

> When is YOUR CDR node going up 

Fine, if that is the source if your righteousness, I will put one up 1Q99. I
won't even play the my network is bigger than your network pissing match,
but I will put my money where my mouth is if you think hosting a list node
is that big of a deal.

I'm am not critical of any contribution, but I will be critical of someone
chastising others contributions simply because they would do it differently.
A call to arms to protect liberty is not a draft. If you don't want a gun,
then don't take it, I won't even call you a Tory.

	Matt




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 05:40:39 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin Walls (fwd)
Message-ID: <199812082032.OAA13166@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 08 Dec 1998 19:20:34 +0100
> From: Mok-Kong Shen 
> Subject: Re: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin Walls (fwd)

> I don't know. But maybe Switzerland, a neutral country in wars,

I suspect that with their reversal concerning anonymous numbered accounts
and other similar changes in their laws and their enforcement that none of
the fully developed countries in N. America, W. Europe, Pacific Rim would
be good candidates for this sort of shenanigan without some legal backing
from the get go. That leaves S. America, Africa, E. Europe, Middle East,
India, and China. Not a lot of hope there. If it's not political issues,
it's no economies, no modern infrastructure, religious, etc. 

Besides, do you really want to trust a country that funded the Nazi'a when
they claimed neutrality? There continues neutrality is a ruse because it's
convenient to trap those who aren't smart enough to ask why they manage to
survive when their neighbors are toast. And it ain't because the mountains
are high or everyone is armed. Just look at Barbarossa.

> such a site could be erected. Of course it is a resource problem.

No, it isn't. I fund my entire site for about $600/mo out of my own pocket.
ISDN, DNS, 24 hour access, etc. That's cheap for fighting abuses of civil
liberties by organizations whose bugdets are measured in big-B's. My main
box (einstein) is a 486DX2/80 20M ram, 2G of drive running Linux 1.1.59 for
the last 4 years. I just gave away 10 Sun 3/60's and HP/Apollo 400's that
would be perfect for this sort of stuff except nobody is willing to do it.
People are always giving me machines in the hope that I can either do
something with them or can find somebody else who will; They're mighty rare
(the people that is).

I'm in the process of looking at DirectPC for a means to give my domain a
fully functional mobile site. I'm looking at a couple of hundred dollars a
month for that over a thousand or so for the hardware. Use Linux and run it
off your car (Ok, I've a Brono II so it's a bit more convenient) via a
converter. People are pretty intrigued when I put the dish in the back and
drive around. Setup is easy, pull the dish from the back and clamp it on the
baggage rack and site it. Hook a cell phone up for uplinks and sit back with
a 400k max downlink. What's really cool is the dish I've been playing with
has a DirectPC lmb and two DSS lmb's as well. The whole setup was less than
$500 (minus the DSS tuners).

I recognize that say $1k/mo. is a lot for most folks but the real interesting
question is why the better funded cpunks aren't doing this sort of stuff
when they claim such committment to the cause. Gilmore, TC May, etc. are
clearly financialy capable of such activities. Such organizations as EFF and
EF-Texas/Georgia clearly could raise these sorts of funds to further their
suggestions to the rest of us, yet they don't. The best we get from them is
requests for us to do it alone.

There are times when I read some of May, Gilmore, Declan, etc. missives and
wonder who it is they REALLY work for. Why is it they consistently don't
follow through on their own suggestions?

> But nowadays storage is getting cheaper. If one has a server machine,
> it shouldn't be too big a problem to set up an archive.

Yeah, two hours of work and it's there. Dirt simple.

> to obtain a compiler and run the installation script. That way
> storage space can be highly reduced.

I'm buying 3G drives for less than $200 and I checked with John Young's
archive and his entire archive is a tad over 200M. My guess is the entire
web contents regarding crypto could be put down in a couple of gigs.

Technical resources are not the issue. It's finding people who are willing
to put themselves in harms way for their beliefs. Very few people have the
strength of their convictions (most likely because they don't have any). I'd
say most folks are motivated by mental masturbation.



    ____________________________________________________________________

           If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me
           in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation,
           it is: bullying
                                                Howard Zinn

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 05:54:59 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Power Outage in San Fransisco/bay area (fwd)
Message-ID: <199812082045.OAA13307@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 13:27:18 -0800 (PST)
> From: Max Inux 
> Subject: Power Outage in San Fransisco/bay area

> Well, we are going on hour 4 now, most of the power is back.  One group of
> 2-4 employees caused it they say.  This was admitted 3 hours later, and
> then they knew 15 minutes after it happens.. typical.  They expect to be
> back on by this afternoon

Damn, you beat me to it. I was going to post something about a dry run for
Y2K in San Fran.

Any rioting?


    ____________________________________________________________________

           If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me
           in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation,
           it is: bullying
                                                Howard Zinn

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 07:38:03 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: FW: Survey Says Kids Feel 'Threatened' By Real Life
Message-ID: <5F152E6E8E6FD21195DF00104B2425AD02B33A@yarrowbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




   A survey has suggested that up to one and a half million British 
   children may have been upset by something they have heard or read.
   
   The NOP poll shows that one in five of nearly 4,000 children between
   the ages of six and 16 interviewed for the survey between September
   and October this year were "uncomfortable" with the state of world
   affairs.
   
   In the UK, 7.2 million children are estimated to be exposed to the
   outside world - roughly 98% of all children between six and 16.
   
   Of those who have had negative experiences while being outside the
   home, the largest proportion - 40% - had seen something "rude".
   
   'Not surprised'
   
   One in seven said they had encountered information that had 
   "freightened them", while 25% heard ideas that "would get them 
   into trouble".
   
   NOP Associate Director Rob Lawson described the numbers as a
   "significant minority".
   
   The children's charity NCH Action for Children suggested the survey
   strengthened calls for censorship to protect younger people.
   
   Charity spokesman John Carr said: "I regret to say I'm not surprised
   by this survey's findings, it's what we have been saying for some
   time.
   
   Censors
   
   "Parents need to know their children are learning in safety and
   security. At the moment, they have no way of knowing that at all."
   
   NCH Action for Children, which advises the government on children's
   issues, backs the introduction of censors - people who filter out 
   ideas unsuitable for children.
   
   The survey, called Kids.net, was paid for by Microsoft, the NSA,
   the GOP, China, and MCI/Worldcom in syndicate.
   
   The Department of Trade and Industry's forthcoming review on Internet
   regulation is expected to be published before Christmas.

[satire on news from news.bbs.co.uk]




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 06:30:58 +0800
To: declan@well.com (Declan McCullagh)
Subject: Re: I Got Mine
In-Reply-To: <4.0.2.19981208155702.0147d100@mail.well.com>
Message-ID: <199812082113.PAA11007@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Declan McCullagh wrote:
> 
> At 12:07 PM 12-8-98 -0600, Igor Chudov @ home wrote:
> >What I am looking for is a practical guide book on how to deal with
> >cops and other law enforcement/jackbooted thug types, in the manner
> >that minimizes my long term damage. Something along the lines of "You
> >and the Police!", by Boston T. Party, a book that I greatly enjoyed.
> 
> BTW BTP has just come out with a Y2K book. It's a great read.

Is it a useful book? BTP writings are always fun to read, but some of
his recommendations seem suspect.

	- Igor.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 07:52:08 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: FW: Survey Says Kids Feel 'Threatened' By Real Life
Message-ID: <5F152E6E8E6FD21195DF00104B2425AD02B33B@yarrowbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Ack, I missed one. Revised:

----------

Subject: FW: Survey Says Kids Feel 'Threatened' By Real Life



   A survey has suggested that up to one and a half million British 
   children may have been upset by something they have heard or read.
   
   The NOP poll shows that one in five of nearly 4,000 children between
   the ages of six and 16 interviewed for the survey between September
   and October this year were "uncomfortable" with the state of world
   affairs.
   
   In the UK, 7.2 million children are estimated to be exposed to the
   outside world - roughly 98% of all children between six and 16.
   
   Of those who have had negative experiences while being outside the
   home, the largest proportion - 40% - had seen something "rude".
   
   'Not surprised'
   
   One in seven said they had encountered information that had 
   "freightened them", while 25% heard ideas that "would get them 
   into trouble".
   
   NOP Associate Director Rob Lawson described the numbers as a
   "significant minority".
   
   The children's charity NCH Action for Children suggested the survey
   strengthened calls for censorship to protect younger people.
   
   Charity spokesman John Carr said: "I regret to say I'm not surprised
   by this survey's findings, it's what we have been saying for some
   time.
   
   Censors
   
   "Parents need to know their children are learning in safety and
   security. At the moment, they have no way of knowing that at all."
   
   NCH Action for Children, which advises the government on children's
   issues, backs the introduction of censors - people who filter out 
   ideas unsuitable for children.
   
   The survey, called Kids.net, was paid for by Microsoft, the NSA,
   the GOP, China, and MCI/Worldcom in syndicate.
   
   The Department of Trade and Industry's forthcoming review on Thought
   regulation is expected to be published before Christmas.

[satire on news from news.bbs.co.uk]




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Max Inux 
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 07:24:10 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: Power Outage in San Fransisco/bay area (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199812082045.OAA13307@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Tue, 8 Dec 1998, Jim Choate wrote:
>Damn, you beat me to it. I was going to post something about a dry run for
>Y2K in San Fran.
>
>Any rioting?

Suprisingly, no looting, major accideents (Only one was in the unaffected
Fremont) by Mowry...  dont go towards NAI or Great America ;-)

Max 
New PGP Keys available





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 08:21:35 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: I Got Mine
In-Reply-To: <199812081807.MAA06805@manifold.algebra.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 2:34 PM -0800 12/8/98, Jay Holovacs wrote:

>There is some general information about what to do if stopped by the police
>at the ACLU site:
>
>www.aclu.org
>
>In addition to the good advice that was given on this list to keep your
>mouth shut, I would like to comment on someone's earlier (several days ago)
>post. He had commented that the subject of spoofed messages came up in a
>discussion with an agent, and the agent asked about what this term meant.
>Don't let them draw you into such a discussion. They probably know damn
>well what these terms mean, they want to hear what you say they mean. You
>are being mind probed.
>
>Be polite, don't let them get you to say something angry or stupid, and say
>nothing more than civil response requires.

Not much you can say to them while standing out in the cold, in any case.

(Surely you will not invite them into your home! As we all know, anything
they happen to observe while doing a "wander through," even if on the way
to a seat, is usable for the purposes of obtaining a search warrant.)

I agree with Jay and others that attempting to "educate" them is a lost
cause...John Perry Barlow discovered this some years back when he was
interviewed by FBI agents over the Steve Jackson Games case (if I recall
the particulars correctly). Talking to them about particular list
personalities is _especially_ dangerous, as it helps them build whatever
case they've decided to build. "Anything you say can and will be used
against you."

If O.J. didn't have to talk, either to the police, the DA, or in court, why
should anyone else? (I know this does not encompass all witnesses, but it
captures the key idea of the Fifth for us here. Let them issue a subpoena.
And even then one may not have to talk.)

They haven't tried to talk to me...at least they haven't either gotten
through on my often-busy phone line nor have they driven out from Monterey
or San Jose to my semi-rural home.

I _hope_ I have the presence of mind to just tell them I won't be telling
them anything. Just nothing, not even jabber about a lawyer. Just nothing.
Maybe not even confirming my name...after all, I'm not driving and they
can't compell me to produce a driver's license.

I expect that if they stay around in my driveway, on my property, I'll call
out for them to leave. Beyond that they'd be trespassing.

If I slip up and say more, I'll try to swallow my pride and tell you all
just how badly I screwed up.

--Tim May

Y2K -- LMGALMAO -- Loading my guns and laughing my ass off
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 06:11:09 +0800
To: frissell@panix.com (Duncan Frissell)
Subject: Re: I Got Mine
In-Reply-To: <199812081757.MAA06069@mail1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <4.0.2.19981208155702.0147d100@mail.well.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 12:07 PM 12-8-98 -0600, Igor Chudov @ home wrote:
>What I am looking for is a practical guide book on how to deal with
>cops and other law enforcement/jackbooted thug types, in the manner
>that minimizes my long term damage. Something along the lines of "You
>and the Police!", by Boston T. Party, a book that I greatly enjoyed.

BTW BTP has just come out with a Y2K book. It's a great read.

-Declan





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 06:11:03 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: Re: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin Walls (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199812082032.OAA13166@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <199812082111.QAA28988@camel8.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim wrote:

An inspiring recipe for a mobile rig. Well done. Gotta get one,
chop this tether.

>I'd say most folks are motivated by mental masturbation.

Right. That's my credo, life long. Love it. Want more. Now. Unh,
unh, unh. Used to be called religious ecstacy, faith in god, 
metaphysical certainty, doubt erased by infinite wisdom, 
beatific blissful ignorance, vision brainward, sparkling ricochets, 
zing, zap, blit, parthogenesis. Hungry vet, got a dime?






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 08:48:29 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: wassenar crypto agrmt/wiretapping
Message-ID: <199812090001.QAA14558@netcom8.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: Jonathan David Boyne 
To: Undisclosed recipients:;
Subject: [exploration] The Wassenaar Invasion of Privacy (fwd)

>from:
>http://www.zolatimes.com/V2.41/pageone.html
>Laissez Faire City
Times
>- Volume 2 Issue 41
>The Laissez Faire City Times
>December 7, 1998 - Volume 2, Issue 41
>Editor & Chief: Emile Zola
>-----
>The Wassenaar Invasion of Privacy
>
>by J. Orlin Grabbe
>
>
>>From the first moment it proclaimed the "information superhighway", the
>Clinton administration has waged a wholesale assault on Internet free
>speech and privacy.
>
>The latest blow is the Clinton administration's strong- arming of the 32
>fellow countries of the Wassenaar Arrangement to agree to an export ban
>on strong cryptographic (data scrambling) software. The net effect will
>be to make it easier for each government to read its own citizen's email
>and other private documents.
>
>Normally if a nation attempts to restrict the domestic sale of strong
>encryption software, that attempt is made ineffective by the
>availability of strong encryption software from other countries. But
>such software won't be available anymore--at least not from one of the
>Wassenaar countries, once they have enacted local legislation to
>implement the terms of the Wassenaar agreement of December 2.
>
>The Wassenaar Arrangement is supposed to be an intergovernmental
>agreement to restrict international traffic in arms. What does this have
>to do with encryption? Simply this: the US government still holds that
>secret-code-producing software is a munition. So if you encrypt your
>letters and files, and the government hasn't given you permission to use
>that caliber encryption, then the person who gave you the encryption
>software may be in violation of some regulation on arms dealing.
>
>"They've plugged a loophole," gleefully proclaimed Ambassador David
>Aaron, the President's Special Envoy for Cryptology. The day following
>the agreement, the US Department of Commerce issued a press release in
>which Aaron spouts gobble-de-gook phrases about a "level playing field"
>and about balancing "commercial and privacy interests with national
>security and public safety concerns" (see Appendix A for Commerce Dept.
>press statement).
>
>How has this agreement supposedly created a "level playing field" and
>helped U.S. industry? Well, namely, by censoring foreign publishers of
>cryptology software in the same way that the US government already
>censors US publishers. This is similar to arguing that by increasing
>tyranny in surrounding countries, we can create a "level playing field"
>for freedom.
>
>"It's ironic, but the US government is leading the charge
>internationally to restrict personal privacy and individual liberty
>around the world," said Alan Davidson, a staff counsel at the Center for
>Democracy and Technology, according to Reuters (see Appendix B for
>Reuter's news release).
>
>A restriction on cryptology is a restriction on free speech. In the
>Second World War, the US used native Navaho speakers for secure
>communications. Since no one else understood the language, it served as
>a powerful secret code. But is what you speak or write in an email
>message suddenly not speech or language if the government can't
>understand it? If your message says "Xu23MN iilc]z MNBl", does the
>government suddenly have the right to imprison you for writing
>gibberish?
>
>While the clear answer is No, nevertheless the US government thinks it
>has the right to restrict your "gibberish" if it is produced by
>encryption software that it can't crack. The Wassenaar agreement says
>encryption software that is "weak" (less than 56 bit keys in some cases,
>or less than 64 bit keys in others), so that the government can
>unscramble and read the real message underneath the gibberish, is okay,
>and in fact frees up some export restrictions on this type of software.
>The trade-off? Greater restrictions on software that produces secret
>code the government can't read.
>
>Arms control. It sounds wonderful, doesn't it? Go over to the Wassenaar
> web page and take a look. High nobility of purpose, right? "We're
>keeping those guns away from the Indians," they proclaim. But what they
>mean to say is: "We fully intend to read what is written on the hard
>drive of your computer."
>
>Posting to the cypherpunks mailing list, Timothy May noted:
>
>I recently heard T. J. Rodgers, CEO of Cypress Semiconductor, repeat his
>oft-made point that Silicon Valley and the high tech industry gains
>nothing by talking to Washington. That as soon as dialog is started with
>Washington, things get worse. This applies as well to crypto, to gun
>rights, to everything. Everything Washington touches turns to statist
>shit.
>
>Is there any good news? Enabling legislation has to be enacted in each
>country to carry out the terms of the Wassenaar agreement. Raising a hue
>and cry with legislators over this latest invasion of privacy should
>have a positive effect.
>
>In the meantime, Mr. "Information Superhighway" Al Gore is poised for a
>presidential run, so he can continue to ignore privacy concerns and bend
>over for the Big Brother agencies of the national security
>establishment.
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Related Links
>
>•The End of Ordinary Money: Part 1
>•The End of Ordinary Money: Part 2
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Appendix A: Commerce Dept. Press Release
>
>
>UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE NEWS
>
>International Trade Administration
>
>Washington, DC
>
>For Immediate Release
>Tuesday, December 3, 1998
>
>Contact: Maria Harris Tildon
>          (202)482-3809
>          Sue Hofer
>          (202)482-2721
>
>P R E S S  S T A T E M E N T
>
>U.S. Applauds Agreement on Encryption in International Export
>Control Regime
>
>Vienna, Austria -- The United States welcomed the decision taken
>Thursday in Vienna by the 33 members of the Wassenaar Arrangement
>to modernize and improve multilateral encryption export controls.
>Ambassador David Aaron, the President's Special Envoy for Cryptology,
>said that "the international agreement reached here goes a long way
>toward leveling the playing field for exporters and promoting
>electornic commerce.  It provides countries with a stronger
>regulatory framework to protect national security and public safety."
>
>The agreement caps a two year effort by the United States, to update
>international encryption export controls and to balance commercial
>and privacy interests with national security and public safety
>concerns. Thursday's agreement simplifies and streamlines controls
>on many encryption items and eliminates multilateral reporting
>requirements. Specific improvements to multilateral encryption
>controls include removing controls on all encryption products at
>or below 56 bit and certain consumer entertainment TV systems, such
>as DVD products, and on cordless telephone systems designed for
>home or office use.
>
>Wassenaar members also agreed to extend controls to mass-market
>encryption above 64 bits, thus closing a significant loophole in
>multilateral encryption controls.  This gives Wassenaar member
>governments the legal authority to license many mass market
>encryption software exports which were previously not covered by
>multilateral controls and enables governments to review the
>dissemination of the strongest encryption products that might
>fall into the hands of rogue end users.   The new controls also
>extend liberalized mass-market hardware below 64 bits.  Until
>today, only mass-market software products enjoyed this
>liberalized treatment.
>
>"The decisions taken here in Vienna reinforce the Administration's
>efforts to promote a balanced encryption policy," Aaron confirmed.
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Appendix B: Reuters News Release
>
>
>Thursday, 3 December 1998 12:57:40
>
>U.S. claims success in curbing encryption trade
>
>Aaron Pressman, Reuters, Washington newsroom, 202-898-8312
>
>WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Clinton administration officials
>Thursday said they had persuaded other leading countries to
>impose strict new export controls on computer
>data-scrambling products under the guise of arms control.
>
>At a meeting Thursday in Vienna, the 33 nations that have
>signed the Wassenaar Arrangement limiting arms exports --
>including Japan, Germany and Britain -- agreed to impose
>controls on the most powerful data-scrambling technologies,
>including for the first time mass-market software, U.S.
>special envoy for cryptography David Aaron told Reuters.
>
>The United States, which restricts exports of a wide range of
>data-scrambling products and software -- also known as
>encryption -- has long sought without success to persuade
>other countries to impose similar restrictions.
>
>``We think this is very important in terms of bringing a level
>playing field for our exporters,'' Aaron said.
>
>Leading U.S. high-technology companies, including Microsoft
>Corp. and Intel Corp., have complained that the lack of
>restrictions in other countries hampered their ability to
>compete abroad. The industry has sought to have U.S.
>restrictions relaxed or repealed, but has not asked for tighter
>controls in other countries.
>
>Privacy advocates have also staunchly opposed U.S. export
>controls on encryption, arguing that data-scrambling
>technologies provided a crucial means of protecting privacy in
>the digital age.
>
>``It's ironic, but the U.S. government is leading the charge
>internationally to restrict personal privacy and individual
>liberty around the world,'' said Alan Davidson, staff counsel at
>the Center for Democracy and Technology, a Washington-based
>advocacy group.
>
>Special envoy Aaron said the Wassenaar countries agreed to
>continue export controls on powerful encryption products in
>general but decided to end an exemption for widely available
>software containing such capabilities.
>
>``They plugged a loophole,'' Aaron said.
>
>The new policy also reduced reporting and paperwork
>requirements and specifically excluded from export controls
>products that used encryption to protect intellectual property
>-- such as movies or recordings sent over the Internet -- from
>illegal copying, Aaron said.
>
>Encryption uses mathematical formulas to scramble
>information and render it unreadable without a password or
>software ``key.'' One important measure of the strength of the
>encryption is the length of the software key, measured in bits,
>the ones and zeros that make up the smallest unit of computer
>data.
>
>With the increasing speed and falling prices of computers,
>data encrypted with a key 40 bits long that was considered
>highly secure several years ago can now be cracked in a few
>hours. Cutting-edge electronic commerce and communications
>programs typically use 128-bit or longer keys.
>
>Under Thursday's agreement, Wassenaar countries would
>restrict exports of general encryption products using more
>than 56-bit keys and mass-market products with keys more
>than 64 bits long, Aaron said.
>
>Each country must now draft its own rules to implement the
>agreement.
>
>-30-
>
>from The Laissez Faire City Times, Vol. 2, No. 41, Dec. 7, 1998
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>The Laissez Faire City Times is a private newspaper. Although it is
>published by a corporation domiciled within the sovereign domain of
>Laissez Faire City, it is not an "official organ" of the city or its
>founding trust. Just as the New York Times is unaffiliated with the city
>of New York, the City Times is only one of what may be several news
>publications located in, or domiciled at, Laissez Faire City proper. For
>information about LFC, please contact CityClerk@LFCity.co
>
>Published by
>Laissez Faire City Netcasting Group, Inc.
>Copyright 1998 - Trademark Registered with LFC Public Registrar
>All Rights Reserved
>-----
>Aloha, He'Ping,
>Om, Shalom, Salaam.
>Em Hotep, Peace Be,
>Omnia Bona Bonis,
>All My Relations.
>Adieu, Adios, Aloha.
>Amen.
>Roads End
>Kris
>
>DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
>==========
>CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting
propagandic
>screeds are not allowed. Substance-not soapboxing!  These are sordid
matters
>and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and
outright
>frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor
effects
>spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
>gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to
readers;
>be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
>nazi's need not apply.
>
>Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
>
>========================================================================
>To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
>SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] LISTSERV@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
>
>To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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>Om
>

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------- End of Forwarded Message




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 08:49:29 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: libertarians advocate suing govt
Message-ID: <199812090001.QAA14587@netcom8.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




------- Forwarded Message


Subject: 
        Release: Sue the Government?
   Date: 
        Tue, 08 Dec 98 01:02:13 PST
   From: 
        announce@lp.org
     To: 
        announce@lp.org (Libertarian Party announcements)




- - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

=======================================
NEWS FROM THE LIBERTARIAN PARTY
2600 Virginia Avenue, NW, Suite 100
Washington DC 20037
=======================================
For release: December 8, 1998
=======================================
For additional information:
George Getz, Press Secretary
Phone: (202) 333-0008 Ext. 222
E-Mail: 76214.3676@Compuserve.com
=======================================


A radical idea: Why can't people sue
politicians for their deadly programs?

        WASHINGTON, DC -- If politicians can sue gun and tobacco
companies for damages caused by their products, why can't ordinary
Americans sue politicians for the destruction caused by their products:
Government programs?

        "Government programs -- such as wars, exploding automotive air
bags, and grisly radiation experiments -- have killed and maimed tens
of thousands of Americans over the years," said Steve Dasbach, national
director of the Libertarian Party.

        "Americans shouldn't tolerate a double standard of justice, one
for the politicians and one for the people. It's time to start holding
the government accountable."

        What started Libertarians thinking in this direction? The fact
that 41 state governments are about to divvy up a $40 billion
settlement against tobacco companies, said Dasbach -- and the fact that
several big-city mayors are deciding whether to join New Orleans in its
lawsuit against gun manufacturers.

        With those legal actions serving as an inspiration, he said,
why not prosecute the government for:

        * War deaths: "Recent military actions totally unrelated to
U.S. national security -- like those in the Persian Gulf, Lebanon,
Panama, and Somalia -- have claimed hundreds of American lives,"
Dasbach said. "If gun company executives can be held liable when
criminals use guns irresponsibly, why not hold presidents and
Congressmen liable when they use American troops irresponsibly?"

        * Cancer deaths: "The federal government admitted last year
that Cold War nuclear tests exposed 230,000 Americans to high levels of
radioactive iodine, and may cause 75,000 people to develop fatal
thyroid cancer," Dasbach said. "If it's fair to force tobacco companies
to pay for smoking-related illnesses, it's fair to force the government
to pay for legislation-related illnesses -- like thyroid cancer."

        * Air-bag deaths: "According to the federal government, 49
children have been killed by government-mandated air bags," Dasbach
said. "Their grieving parents ought to file wrongful-death suits
against the Congressmen who demanded this law and the Transportation
Department bureaucrats who wrote it."

        * Alcohol-related deaths: "Eighteen state governments control
the liquor stores that operate within their borders," Dasbach said. "So
why aren't those state politicians and bureaucrats sued for the cost of
every alcohol-related car crash?"

        * Deaths caused by gun-control laws: "According to a landmark
study last year by criminologists John R. Lott and David B. Mustard,
the refusal of 24 state governments to pass concealed-carry laws caused
an additional 1,414 murders, 4,177 rapes, and 60,363 aggravated
assaults in 1992 alone," Dasbach said. "Residents of these states ought
to file an immediate injunction to prevent these victim-disarmament
laws from causing more innocent blood to be shed."

        * Deaths caused by criminals on parole: "According to
Department of Justice figures, murderers are freed from prison an
average of 11.6 years before their full sentence expires; armed robbers
are sprung 5 years early; and rapists are back on the streets 5.9 years
early," Dasbach said.

        "The politicians who handed these murderers, robbers, and
rapists get-out-of-jail-early cards -- usually so they could fill the
jails with people convicted of victimless crimes -- ought to be charged
as an accessory to every crime these violent thugs commit."

        * Gambling-related suicides: "Heavily advertised
state-sponsored lotteries siphon billions of dollars a year from
America's poor, and are directly responsible for uncountable numbers of
gambling-related bankruptcies, suicides, and broken homes," Dasbach
said. "Since politicians addicted to taxes are harming vulnerable
Americans addicted to gambling, shouldn't the state officials who run
these destructive lotteries be held personally responsible?"

        But Libertarians aren't holding their breath waiting for the
government to be brought to justice, Dasbach admitted.

        "Courts have consistently ruled that government is protected
from prosecution by the legal doctrine of sovereign immunity," he said.
"According to the courts, death-by-government programs are not against
the law.

        "But wouldn't America be a much safer country if politicians
were held to the same standard as any other individual?

        "Unfortunately, unless that happens, prosecution-proof
politicians will continue to escape the consequences of their
actions -- while hypocritically sending ordinary Americans off to
jail."


- - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.2

iQCVAwUBNmzhy9CSe1KnQG7RAQES5wP6Ap6aRD4XRSWEEnC+2Vz5+ix8aQg4ss+3
srlja3yDIqsh94SIo1xoIESwZ/61DEpXyvhO/PdJ0xt6wtcFWNkAGbt1VVyr26Tx
O+2Qv3NMcHq7ISSMV1SGHYuuRsCuAg/om+PU39NxNfj60eTMpEkPDz0wyAm9XFxu
3c0bMkh+0Zw=
=qedo
- - -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

The Libertarian Party                                      http://www.lp.org/
2600 Virginia Ave. NW, Suite 100                          voice: 202-333-0008
Washington DC 20037                                         fax: 202-333-0072

For subscription changes, please mail to  with the
word "subscribe" or "unsubscribe" in the subject line -- or use the WWW form.



- - -- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.inannareturns.com
"See God in Every Eye" --Inanna, Goddess of Love
V.S. Ferguson
author, Inanna Returns and Inanna Hyper-Luminal

- - --------------54D4A0A30C2370EF22396E74--


- ------- End of Forwarded Message


------- End of Forwarded Message




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Max Inux 
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 07:45:40 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: Officers face suspension for email offenses: Half of Town's Police Force Involved
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Chief cleans house after half the Department makes fun of him via email on
Patrol Car Computer Terminals (PDC's)... 
(Plus it's a rally cool website - listen to police scanners while you read
FBI FOIA files on people like Frank Sinatra).

OAKLAND, N.J. (APB) -- Half of this small borough's police force may be
suspended for allegedly using computer terminals in their patrol cars to
send one another disrespectful comments about the chief and the borough. 

http://www.apbonline.com/911/1998/12/06/oakland1206_1.html






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 3umoelle@informatik.uni-hamburg.de (Ulf =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=F6ller?=)
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 00:42:04 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin Walls (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199812081346.HAA09950@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <199812081543.QAA29629@rzdspc26.informatik.uni-hamburg.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



> Ah, so the call is for folks in Denmark to post the various pieces of
> currently available software then, not everyone on the planet as it appears.

It is not just about Denmark. The Wassenaar arrangement has been
signed by 33 countries, including the US, Canada, the European Union,
Japan, Australia, New Zealand, Norway and others. Up to now, 30 of
these states have allowed to export mass market and public domain
crypto software without a license. Only the US, France and NZ did not
have the "General Software Note".

The US has exercised extreme pressure at the Wassenaar conference (as
one German government official writes) and has managed to get the
General Software Note modified. Now the states that have signed the
arrangement will have to regulate the export of strong
cryptography. There are other places such as Brazil, Iceland, South
Africa, India, and even Singapore which do not have any export
restrictions. However, must crypto software that is distributed on the
Internet right now is distributed under General Software Note.

John Gilmore writes: "I call for volunteers in each country, at each
university or crypto-aware organization, to download crypto tools
while they can still be exported from where they are, and then to
offer them for export from your own site and your own country as long
as it's legal."                                               ^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Which is exactly what is needed in this situation.

> RSAREF is not quite what he is asking folks to do now is it.

RSAREF is what he has determined he can legally export from the US. So,
yes, he is doing what he also asks others to do.

> Let me ask you this Ulf, when is YOUR site going up?

My university is already distributing SSLeay, PGP, ssh, cfs and other
cypto tools. As long as they continue to do so, I won't make my mirror
available on the web, but my own crypto site is going up later this
week with another piece of strong crypto software.

> Your address implies you're in Denmark.

Almost. :)

> What are you going to do for YOUR liberty today? Has Gilmore agreed to
> help fund YOUR fight of the change in your courts?

Today I am going to create the distribution of the software I have
been working on in the past months, have the server set up and, if all
goes well, upload the file.

I have made a few thousand dollars on developing crypto software and I
am ready to use much of that money to defend my right to distribute
the results of my work on the web. I haven't asked John or anybody
else to help me.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 07:26:44 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: The problem with 'Gilmore's RSAREF' site... (fwd)
Message-ID: <199812082249.QAA14262@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> From: Matthew James Gering 
> Subject: RE: The problem with 'Gilmore's RSAREF' site... (fwd)
> Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 14:26:52 -0800 

> > Further, he's not willing to extend his legal protection to help 
> > others.
> 
> Has there been any indication that the EFF would not support or help someone
> being persecuted for crypto-export disobedience? I wouldn't rely on such

I've asked many times from the local chapter and the answer was always no. 
The EFF has certainly never offered legal support to anyone in the 8 years
or so they've been in existance, well other than Steve Jackson perhaps (I'm
not sure if the EFF helped defray any of his court costs).

> charity, nor is charity ever obligatory (that's socialism), but what reason
> do you have to discount it?
> 
> The essence of civil disobedience is many many individual targets, not one
> organization.

You should look into the history of civil disobedience then. The ONLY time
it works is when it is done via mass involvement. The NAACP and ACLU have
been quite effective within their limited areas of interest.

Your understanding of the history of civil disobedience is skewed at best. 

> I'm am not critical of any contribution, but I will be critical of someone
> chastising others contributions simply because they would do it differently.
> A call to arms to protect liberty is not a draft. If you don't want a gun,
> then don't take it, I won't even call you a Tory.

Then you should rethink your approach. Somebody asking to put your neck on
the block while they won't with their own is no contributor. I believe back
in the War of Indipendence THOSE people were called Tory.



    ____________________________________________________________________

           If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me
           in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation,
           it is: bullying
                                                Howard Zinn

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Bernardo B. Terrado" 
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 17:35:13 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: knapsack....
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Where could I find the algorithm (per se) for
Merkle-Hellman knapsack ?
(if it is not for free just say so) :)

I've read in Mr. Schneier's book that Chor-Rivest knapsack is secure
(unless for some specializerd attack). Is it still as secure today as the
latter years?







Bernie





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 09:45:36 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: spy cameras
Message-ID: <199812090104.RAA19228@netcom8.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




------- Forwarded Message

Date:         Thu, 3 Dec 1998 09:18:29 -0500
From: Dan S 
Subject:      [CTRL] Smart spy cameras on the way
To: CTRL@LISTSERV.AOL.COM

 -Caveat Lector-

>From :
http://www.telegraph.co.uk:80/et?ac=001036222020742&rtmo=VqqqD8sK&atmo=kkkkkkku&P4_FOLLOW_ON=/98/12/3/ecnspy03.html&pg=/et/98/12/3/ecnspy03.html
- -
Smart spy cameras on the way

By Patrick Hook

POLICE scientists are close to a major breakthrough that will allow CCTV
cameras to "recognise" criminal activity.

Using leading-edge neural and pattern recognition technologies,
developed for space and defence applications, scientists are confident
that it will shortly be possible to police whole areas of the country
automatically and alert the authorities to criminal activity.

Speaking at a recent London conference organised by the research and
development group SIRA, Dr Mike Taylor, head of technology operations at
Scotland Yard, said the main barrier to the development of such a system
was the quality of the images that were generally produced by existing
CCTV equipment.""It is perfectly feasible to develop software which can
distinguish certain actions, but the quality of image capture means that
it is often difficult to see exactly what is going on," he said.

"The quality is, it seems, in direct proportion to the amount of effort
that users are prepared to invest in such systems. Since its
introduction more than 20 years ago, the need for such technology has
increased, and intelligent sensory information processing and
information fusing is going to play a very key part in crime management.
The next step is to add other sensory devises such as microphones to
pick up the sound of breaking glass and sensors that can detect the
smell of particular substances and trigger an appropriate  response."

The work is part of a research programme into an area of security that
has been identified by the government's Foresight Challenge as a
priority for further study. Drawn from a range of organisations,
including the police, the Defence Evaluation and Research Agency and the
Home Office, the work of the team is being partly funded by Brussels.
Most of the research is centred on the fusing of information from
several sources to present a more accurate report of what the CCTV
camera has seen.

"The additional cost of a microphone or other sensor is not likely to be
great," said Taylor, "and should make a significant difference to the
ability of the police to detect criminal activity."

Not everyone is enthusiastic, however. John Wadham, director of Liberty,
said: "It's difficult to see how this kind of technology would work
accurately in practice. It could result in officers' time being wasted
investigating incidents - and indeed individuals - which turn out to be
entirely innocent. I do wonder whether we have enough surveillance
already. Surveillance technology is better at protecting property than
people and is still not adequately regulated to protect privacy."
- --

dan@southeast.net

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==========
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance-not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

========================================================================
To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] LISTSERV@LISTSERV.AOL.COM

To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] LISTSERV@LISTSERV.AOL.COM

Om

------- End of Forwarded Message




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: James Glave 
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 09:58:05 +0800
To: Anonymous 
Subject: Re: Altavista hacked
In-Reply-To: <199812082203.XAA25646@replay.com>
Message-ID: <199812090113.RAA25662@hardly.hotwired.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Good thing http://www.altavista.com/ is still up!

*grin*

At 11:03 PM 12/8/98 +0100, Anonymous wrote:
>
>It appears that www.altaviata.com has been hacked.
>
>Begin Quote:
>If you are looking for pornographic material (naked people)
>                             please Click Here 
>
>         Else please check back with us soon, we are under
>                                construction. 
>
>Thanks. 
>
>End Quote
>
>Resolving *.digital.com DNS entries seems impossible. Any ideas? Wish
>DNSsec was deployed, it might of prevented this.
> 


James Glave, News Editor, Wired News, http://www.wired.com  +1 (415) 276-8430




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: James Glave 
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 09:50:06 +0800
To: Max Inux 
Subject: Power Outage in San Fransisco/bay area
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199812090115.RAA25822@hardly.hotwired.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



http://www.wired.com/news/news/technology/story/16710.html

SF Blackout: Y2K Dress Rehearsal
by Chris Oakes and Craig Bicknell , Wired News

12:40 p.m.  8.Dec.98.PST
When the lights went out Tuesday on nearly 1 million San Francisco Bay Area
residents, the blackout served as a warning of what might happen in a
society dependent upon electricity for basic services and commerce.

"This could very well be a reflection of a Y2K disaster that's not properly
managed," said Nancy Wong, a spokeswoman for the US Critical Infrastructure
Assurance Office. 

"It's another reminder of how tremendously dependent everyone is on power,"
added Peter Neumann, a critical infrastructure expert and the author of the
book Computer Related Risks. 

"It's kind of a harbinger of the Year 2000 problem. We're in practice mode
right now." 

....more....


James Glave, News Editor, Wired News, http://www.wired.com  +1 (415) 276-8430




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: b!X 
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 09:45:16 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: Re: Altavista hacked
In-Reply-To: <199812082203.XAA25646@replay.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Tue, 8 Dec 1998, Anonymous wrote:

# It appears that www.altaviata.com has been hacked.

*yawn*


- b!X (Guerrilla Techno-fetishist)
      (Global Effort to Eradicate Know-nothings)
      (Operation Primate Purge - http://www.geekforce.org/field/purge.shtml)





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mok-Kong Shen 
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 01:30:05 +0800
To: John Young 
Subject: Re: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin Walls (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199812080331.VAA07823@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <366D53CB.A2B7AAAC@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



John Young wrote:
> 
> In response to John Gilmore's call for a foil to US-Wassenaar
> restrictions acoming, we've put up a preliminary list of international
> cryptography sources for mirroring:
> 
>    http://jya.com/crypto-free.htm
> 
> This is a quick starter-kit and is far from comprehensive.
> Contributions welcome.

For longer term it might be desirable to have a site in a crypto-
politics neutral country (one that is unlikely to have crypto laws
in foreseeable future) to which software could be uploaded.
Downloading is then import and not subject to restriction.

M. K. Shen




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jay Holovacs 
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 07:26:25 +0800
To: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov)
Subject: Re: I Got Mine
In-Reply-To: <199812081757.MAA06069@mail1.panix.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19981208173418.0072b52c@pop3.idt.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 12:07 PM 12/8/98 -0600, Igor Chudov @ home wrote:
>I apologize for my ignorance. I am not very well aware of this Heinlein
>fellow.
>
>What I am looking for is a practical guide book on how to deal with
>cops and other law enforcement/jackbooted thug types, in the manner
>that minimizes my long term damage. Something along the lines of "You
>and the Police!", by Boston T. Party, a book that I greatly enjoyed.
>
There is some general information about what to do if stopped by the police
at the ACLU site:

www.aclu.org

In addition to the good advice that was given on this list to keep your
mouth shut, I would like to comment on someone's earlier (several days ago)
post. He had commented that the subject of spoofed messages came up in a
discussion with an agent, and the agent asked about what this term meant.
Don't let them draw you into such a discussion. They probably know damn
well what these terms mean, they want to hear what you say they mean. You
are being mind probed.

Be polite, don't let them get you to say something angry or stupid, and say
nothing more than civil response requires.

Jay




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 10:32:34 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: [CTRL] Feds And FDIC To Monitor All Your Personal Financial Activities
Message-ID: <199812090136.RAA21868@netcom8.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: DrErebus@AOL.COM
Subject: [CTRL] Feds And FDIC To Monitor All Your Personal Financial Activities
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 10:11:25 EST
To: CTRL@LISTSERV.AOL.COM

 -Caveat Lector-

Feds And FDIC To Monitor
All Your Personal Financial Activities

12-1-98






The following is direct quote from the first page of FDIC document (6174-01)
(12 CFR Part 326) Notice of proposed rulemaking.

"SUMMARY: The FDIC is proposing to issue a regulation requiring insured
nonmember banks to adopt and maintain "Know Your Customer" programs. As
proposed, the regulation would require each nonmember bank to develop a
program designed to determine the identity of its customers; determine its
customers' sources of funds; determine the normal and expected transactions of
its customers; monitor account activity for transactions that are inconsistent
with those normal and expected transactions; and report any transactions of
its customers that are determined to be suspicious, in accordance with the
FDIC's existing suspicious activity reporting regulation. ---"


The things to be very concerned about in this case are the PROFILE PARAMETERS
that in turn define the various limits that when exceed, qualify as an
exception to the norm and thus must be reported to another federal agency, as
a suspicious transaction. There is virtually no limit to the number or type of
profile parameters that can be established. For example, is the customer an 8
foot tall white male weighing in excess of 400 pounds or is the customer a
four foot tall black female weighing less than 90 pounds. The question or
questions (and there are many questions) then becomes, who will be responsible
for establishing, defining and controlling the limitless number of possible
profile parameters? Who will be responsible for adding, changing and deleting
established profile parameters? Who will be responsible for insuring that this
awesome and massive capability will not be misused and abused by the various
departments of the Federal Government. In other words, is the 8 foot tall
white male an exception to the norm or is the 4 foot tall black female the
exception or, are both the upper limit and the lower limit considered as an
exception to the norm. How about all those in between?

As noted in the quoted SUMMARY of the document identified above, the "key
operative statements" are as follows;

1. Identify its customers. 2. Determine its customers' source of funds. 3.
Determine the normal and expected transactions of its customers. 4. Monitor
account activity for transactions that are inconsistent with those normal and
expected transactions. 5. Report any transactions of its customers that are
determined to be suspicious ---.

Before we briefly examine the five individual requirements noted above, and so
that you will understand where"I" am coming from, please be aware of the fact
that, in addition to being a Baptist Preacher, I have been a Data Processing
Systems Analyst for some 48+ years. At least half of that time was spent
working for the Federal Government, designing and installing total Data
Processing Facilities, from the Presidents Battle Staff, to the Congress, to
the Department of defense, to the local Church name and address data base. I
have written and taught several college courses: (a) Management of Data
Processing Facilities and (b) Systems Analysis. One of the first things that I
always tell the new students in my Systems Analysis class is "In the field of
electronic data processing, your only limitation is you own imagination. If
you can rationalize it in your mind, 'electronic' data processing can do it."

Now, given that background and qualifications let me tell you, in no uncertain
terms, -- I know exactly what the Federal Government is up to. I know exactly
what information they are looking for; I know exactly how to get that
information and I know exactly how they plan to eventually use that
information.

Requirement # 1: Identify its customers. I have no problem with this
requirement so long as that identifying information is limited to name,
mailing address and an account number generated by the "local" financial
institution and assigned to a particular account to provide unique
identification, but absolutely nothing more.

Requirement # 2: Determine its customers' source of funds. This I have a BIG
problem with. Even though the government would like for you to believe that
this requirement is related to identifying "possible" illegal money laundering
by drug traffickers, that is not the only reason they want to know the source
of your finances. Remember now, the ultimate objective of the vast majority of
government regulations and programs are directed at controlling the
"individual." This item required that you advise the bank of all the sources
that you will be receiving money from that you will be depositing in this
particular account. We will expand this item in more detail below.

Requirement # 3. Determine the normal and expected transactions of its
customers. For purposed of this discussion we will consider only four primary
parameters related to deposits and withdrawals against this particular
account.

First: When you established a new checking account you will be required to
identify the number of deposits you expect to make each month and the average
amount of each deposit. For example (a) military retirement pay = $2,000.00,
(b) Social Security Income = $400.00, (c) Rent from income property = $750.00,
(d) Interest from stocks & bonds = $ 300.00, and so on.

Second: You will be required to identify the number of withdrawals you expect
to make each month from this account and the estimated amount of each
withdrawal. For example; (a) Mortgage payment=$ 800.00, (b) Car Payment =
$250.00, (c) College tuition = $ 1,000.00).

Once the average number of deposits and the average amount of each deposit has
been determined and the average number of withdrawals and the average amount
of each withdrawal has been established, it will be very easy to identify all
transactions, in and out, that exceed the established norms for this
particular account. For example should you find a paper bag on the side of the
highway containing 10,000 well used one dollar bills, or Aunt Sue passed away
and left you 10,000 well used one dollar bills and you deposited that windfall
in your checking or savings account, that would immediately be detected as
exceeding the established norms for your account.

Requirement # 4. Monitor account activity for transactions that are
inconsistent with those normal and expected transactions. This requirement
establishes the requirement that each financial institution establish a
procedure to monitor your financial accounts on a regular basis for any
transactions that exceed the established norms as illustrated above.

Requirement # 5. Report any transactions of its customers that are determined
to be suspicious ---. This requirement requires that all financial
institutions immediately report any and all suspicious transactions detected
as a result of deposits or withdrawals that exceed the established norms for
your account.

As I was reviewing the aforementioned FDIC document, as quoted above, I called
a long time friend of mine who is vice president of a local bank that I do
business with. I ask my vice president friend to identify the government
agency(s) to which he would report such a suspicious transaction. His response
was, the IRS and the FBI, at the national level.

My friends, as a long time ADP/EDP Systems Analyst I want you to pay
particular attention to the following.

Whenever a good and successful Information (Data) Processing Systems Analyst
designs a large scale information processing system, such as what we have been
talking about above, he will ALWAYS allow for future expansion of "existing"
applications and processing capabilities and his design work will also allow
for "additional" applications and processing capabilities to be added with a
minimum of additional effort and cost.

Based on my 48+ plus years in the business, let me tell you what you can
expect in the very near future if the proposed "rulemaking" provisions as
defined in the FDIC document identified above are allowed to be implemented.
Please, read the following very carefully because it lays out the route our
government is taking toward a cashless society as required by the design of a
one world government under the United Nations.

1. PRESENTLY ALL recipients of military retirement pay MUST have a bank
account into which their monthly retirement pay is electronically transferred.
The government will no longer pay individual retirees directly, or send their
retirement pay to a home address. This is part of an over all plan to extended
more absolute control over the individual. It has absolutely nothing to do
with economy as the government would have you to believe.

2. In the very near future look for legislation that will "require" ALL
government employees, federal, state and local, to have a bank account into
which their salary will also be electronically transferred, just like the
retired military. In as much as most government employees already have the
direct deposit option available, it requires only vary simple legislation to
complete this phase of the plan.

3. Next you will see legislation that will outlaw the direct payment of all
wages or salaries to any individual, by an employer. All employees who work
for a wage or salary, will also be required to have a bank account into which
the employer will be required to direct deposit their salary. And once again
the legislation necessary to accomplish phase of the plan is very simple and
easy to implement, simply because most business would welcome the reduced
payroll cost. The governments objective here is to eventually make the local
financial institution the only source of legal tender for the individual. At
this point and for the purpose of this paper, legal tender is defined as
dollars, debit cards or other credit cards. When objectives 2 & 3 above have
been fully accomplished, it will then be a very simple matter to implement the
rest of the plan.

Let me explain it this way. The total plan equates to $1.00 (One dollar) When
steps 2 & 3 have been fully implemented, as step 1 has already been
accomplished, that will equate to $ .95 cents of that $1.00. The rest of the
plan equates to only 5 cents out of that one dollar. And just what is the rest
of the plan? It's very simple.

After steps 1, 2 and 3 as noted above have been fully implemented, the only
thing left to do then would be to outlaw all cash transactions and require all
transactions now involving cash, be accomplished through the use of checks or
smart cards followed by the eventual elimination of the checks.

At that point the federal government can then trace, track AND CONTROL ALL
TRANSACTIONS, simply because all transactions will then be processed by
massive computer systems controlled by the federal government. Given the above
accomplishments and current electronic capabilities, the ability to exercise
absolute control over "individuals" provided by the additional five cents
noted above are absolutely mind boggling. There are many, many more reasons
that all Americans should and must oppose implementation of the five (5)
requirements identified above. There are TWO things that every American should
do, immediately. First: All Americans should send a letter to the FDIC
expressing their STRONG objection and opposition to the plan to PROFILE
individual bank accounts for what ever purpose. The FDIC will be accepting
public comments until December 27. Send your comments to:

Robert E. Feldman, Executive Secretary Attention: Comments/OES, FDIC 550 17th
Street, NW Washington, DC 20429

---

Spectre From the wording of this "Sunshing Act Meeting" chaired by the Board of
Governors for the Federal Reserve System, the FDIC is "only following orders."
Please find below a replica of the *notice*:
________________________________________________________________
[Federal Register: September 28, 1998 (Volume 63, Number 187)]
[Notices]
[Page 51579]
>From the Federal Register Online via GPO Access
[http://www.wais.access.gpo.gov]
[DOCID:fr28se98-60]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

FEDERAL RESERVE SYSTEM


Sunshine Act Meeting

Agency Holding the Meeting: Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System.

Time and Date: 10:00 a.m., Thursday, October 1, 1998.

Place: Marriner S. Eccles Federal Reserve Board Building, C Street entrance
between 20th and 2lst Streets, N.W., Washington, D.C. 20553.

Status: Open.

Matters to be Considered: Summary Agenda: Because of its routine nature, no
discussion of the following item is anticipated. This matter will be voted on
without discussion unless a member of the Board requests that the item be
moved to the discussion agenda.

1. Publication for comment of proposed amendments to Regulation H (Membership
of State Banking Institutions in the Federal Reserve Qystem), Regulation K
(International Banking Operations), and Regulation Y (Bank Holding Companies
and Change in Bank Control) to require domestic and foreign banking
organizations to develop and maintain ``Know Your Customer'' programs. 2. Any
items carried forward from a previously announced meeting.

Discussion Agenda: None. No Discussion Items Are Scheduled For This Meeting.

Note: If an item is moved from the Summary Agenda to the Discussion Agenda,
discussion of the item will be recorded. Cassettgs will then be available for
listening in the Board's Freedom of Information Office, and copies can be
ordered for $6 per cassette by calling 202-452-3684 or by writing to: Freedom
of Information Office, Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System,
Washington, D.C. 20551.

Contact Person for More Information: Lynn S. Fox, Assistant to the Board;
202-452-3204.

Supplementary Information: You may call 202-452-3006 for a recorded
announcement of this meeting; or you may contact the Board's Web site at
http://www.federalreserve.gov for an electronic announcement. (The Web site
also includes procedural and other information about the open meeting.)

Dated: September 24, 1998. Robert deV. Frierson, Associate Secretary of the
Board. [FR Doc. 98-25960 Filed 9-24-98; 11:19 am] BILLING CODE 6210-01-P
___________________________________________________________

The rule[s] will not be published in the Code of Federal Regulations (CFR)
until the proposed rule[s] is finalized. These rule changes will be to
Regulations H, K and Y pertaining to Banking administration procedures. The
proposed changes *may* be all inclusive within 12 CFR 326 - I wouldn't begin
to guess until the final rules are drafted. Perhaps this is the reason why Mr.
Ingram was unable to find what he was looking for. In the interim, I suggest
caution, research and a thoroughly checking your sources before labeling
anything a *Hoax* or stating something as fact if you don't know first hand or
from personal experience.

If anything, the obvious fact this determination was dictated by the Board of
Governors of the Federal Reserve System ...well, I'll leave that to your
readers to decide the relevancy or merit of the Board's decree.

If you would like additional information, please feel free to contact me.

Lynn Shaffer
fadaar@psn.net

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==========
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance-not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

========================================================================
To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] LISTSERV@LISTSERV.AOL.COM

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SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] LISTSERV@LISTSERV.AOL.COM

Om




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 08:17:47 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Power Outage in San Fransisco/bay area (fwd)
Message-ID: <199812082359.RAA14768@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 15:51:01 -0800 (PST)
> From: Max Inux 
> Subject: Re: Power Outage in San Fransisco/bay area (fwd)

> On Tue, 8 Dec 1998, Jim Choate wrote:
> >Damn, you beat me to it. I was going to post something about a dry run for
> >Y2K in San Fran.
> >
> >Any rioting?
> 
> Suprisingly, no looting, major accideents (Only one was in the unaffected
> Fremont) by Mowry...  dont go towards NAI or Great America ;-)

Thanks for the feedback.


    ____________________________________________________________________

           If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me
           in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation,
           it is: bullying
                                                Howard Zinn

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 09:06:41 +0800
To: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov)
Subject: Re: I Got Mine
In-Reply-To: <4.0.2.19981208155702.0147d100@mail.well.com>
Message-ID: <199812082325.PAA28704@smtp.well.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Well, if you're worried about worst-case scenarios (or variants on them)
it's as good as any and probably better than most. They've got everything
from gun tips to goat-raising.

I enjoyed it, FWIW. It doesn't make a pretense of saying what-if like a
bunch of the other books does: this says social unrest is damn near certain.

-Declan


At 03:13 PM 12-8-98 -0600, Igor Chudov @ home wrote:
>Declan McCullagh wrote:
>> 
>> At 12:07 PM 12-8-98 -0600, Igor Chudov @ home wrote:
>> >What I am looking for is a practical guide book on how to deal with
>> >cops and other law enforcement/jackbooted thug types, in the manner
>> >that minimizes my long term damage. Something along the lines of "You
>> >and the Police!", by Boston T. Party, a book that I greatly enjoyed.
>> 
>> BTW BTP has just come out with a Y2K book. It's a great read.
>
>Is it a useful book? BTP writings are always fun to read, but some of
>his recommendations seem suspect.
>
>	- Igor.
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 10:59:24 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: Re: Altavista hacked
In-Reply-To: <199812082203.XAA25646@replay.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 2:03 PM -0800 12/8/98, Anonymous wrote:
>It appears that www.altaviata.com has been hacked.
>
>Begin Quote:
>If you are looking for pornographic material (naked people)
>                             please Click Here
>

There is a typographic error in this URL.

The naked people pictures are at:

www.altaviagra.com



--Tim May

Y2K -- LMGALMAO -- Loading my guns and laughing my ass off
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 04:50:44 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: The problem with 'Gilmore's RSAREF' site...
Message-ID: <199812081844.TAA05951@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> Save that the cowards have never busted anyone for crypto exports.  It's
> dead letter law.  They know they'd lose a criminal case against a civilian.
> 
> DCF

What about the Martinez case?  She was convicted of exporting a
satellite TV descrambler because of its crypto hardware.

Charles Booher is still facing possible prosecution for putting his
SecureOffice program on his website.  His Grand Jury hearing for possible
indictment has been postponed, at last report.  Can we be sure that he
won't be indicted?




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jan Garefelt 
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 14:34:07 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: News on Wassenaar anyone?
Message-ID: <366D79E5.8C3D052A@pobox.se>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Does anyone have information on the new Wassenaar arrangement, or
information on when official information will be available?

I'm only interested in the crypto parts, and I have already read the
Aaron/Reuter story found on
http://www.crypto.com/reuters/show.cgi?article=912708583

Thanks

/Jan Garefelt




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 10:00:42 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: Reinsch On Crypto/Wassenaar
Message-ID: <199812090127.UAA10345@camel8.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Excerpt from a speech by BXA's William Reinsch on December 7, 
1998, at the Practising Law Institute conference "Coping with U.S.
Export Controls." Note final paragraph about detailed crypto 
session today -- no report on that yet.

Full speech: http://jya.com/war120798-2.htm

Also by him yesterday on crypto: http://jya.com/war120798.htm

[Begin excerpt]

Encryption continues to be a hotly debated issue. As I stated last
year, the U.S. continues to support a balanced approach to encryption
policy which considers privacy and commercial interests as well as
protecting law enforcement and national security interests.
Furthermore, we also remain committed to promoting the growth of
global electronic commerce through secure financial and business
communications.

Our position has always been to seek industry-led, market-driven
solutions to achieve a balanced approach. What has changed is the
direction where technology and the market place are taking us. Key
recovery technology remains a very important part of our policy;
however, over the past two years, we have recognized that key recovery
is not a solution for all problems.

That recognition, brought about in part as a result of our ongoing
dialogue with industry, has helped us also focus on recoverable
technologies that can enable law enforcement to continue its
authorized activities.

As a result, on September 16, Vice President Gore unveiled a policy
update, which will not end the debate, but which does include steps to
further streamline exports of key recovery products and other
recoverable products which allow law enforcement, under proper legal
authority, recovery of plain text.

The update also provides for 1) the export of 56 bit DES worldwide to
any end user under a license exception; 2) exports of strong
encryption to U.S. companies and their subsidiaries under a license
exception; 3) exports of strong encryption to the insurance and
medical sectors in 45 countries under a license exception; and 4)
exports of strong encryption to secure on-line transactions between
on-line merchants and their customers in 45 countries under a license
exception. This is consistent with our earlier announcement relating
to financial institutions.

This is an evolutionary process and we intend to continue our
dialogue. We must continue to adapt to changes, and we will review 
our policies again within the year to determine whether further 
change is necessary. We intend to publish regulations implementing 
the Vice President's announcement this month.

With respect to developing a common international approach to
encryption policy, Ambassador David Aaron, our special envoy on
cryptography, is working with other countries to ensure that our
policies are compatible. He has found that most major producing
countries have public safety and national security concerns similar 
to ours and are interested in developing a harmonized international
approach regarding compatible infrastructures for electronic commerce
and for a key management infrastructure. At last week's Wassenaar
Arrangement plenary session, the participating states approved a
number of changes to modernize and improve multilateral encryption
export controls. These changes removed controls on products below 
56 bits and on certain consumer entertainment systems, such as DVD
products, and on cordless phone systems designed for home or office
use.

Most important, participating states agreed to extend controls to
mass-market encryption exports above 64 bits, thus closing a
significant loophole. This will enable governments to review the
dissemination of the strongest encryption products that otherwise
might fall into the hands of rogue end users.

For those of you deeply interested in the details of our encryption
policy, we have a specific session devoted to it tomorrow.

[End excerpt]




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 12:17:20 +0800
To: declan@well.com (Declan McCullagh)
Subject: Re: I Got Mine
In-Reply-To: <199812082325.PAA28704@smtp.well.com>
Message-ID: <199812090351.VAA18916@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Declan McCullagh wrote:
> 
> Well, if you're worried about worst-case scenarios (or variants on them)
> it's as good as any and probably better than most. They've got everything
> from gun tips to goat-raising.
> 
> I enjoyed it, FWIW. It doesn't make a pretense of saying what-if like a
> bunch of the other books does: this says social unrest is damn near certain.

Alright, Declan, what is the title of the book, and better yet the
ISBN? Thank you.

igor

> -Declan
> 
> 
> At 03:13 PM 12-8-98 -0600, Igor Chudov @ home wrote:
> >Declan McCullagh wrote:
> >> 
> >> At 12:07 PM 12-8-98 -0600, Igor Chudov @ home wrote:
> >> >What I am looking for is a practical guide book on how to deal with
> >> >cops and other law enforcement/jackbooted thug types, in the manner
> >> >that minimizes my long term damage. Something along the lines of "You
> >> >and the Police!", by Boston T. Party, a book that I greatly enjoyed.
> >> 
> >> BTW BTP has just come out with a Y2K book. It's a great read.
> >
> >Is it a useful book? BTP writings are always fun to read, but some of
> >his recommendations seem suspect.
> >
> >	- Igor.
> > 
> 



	- Igor.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 12:29:06 +0800
To: John Young 
Message-ID: <199812090359.TAA06433@smtp.well.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Note I have an article up at wired.com about Reinsch's speech yesterday on
crypto at a defense/critical inf event.

-Declan

At 08:16 PM 12-8-98 -0500, John Young wrote:
>Excerpt from a speech by BXA's William Reinsch on December 7, 
>1998, at the Practising Law Institute conference "Coping with U.S.
>Export Controls." Note final paragraph about detailed crypto 
>session today -- no report on that yet.
>
>Full speech: http://jya.com/war120798-2.htm
>
>Also by him yesterday on crypto: http://jya.com/war120798.htm
>
>[Begin excerpt]
>
>Encryption continues to be a hotly debated issue. As I stated last
>year, the U.S. continues to support a balanced approach to encryption
>policy which considers privacy and commercial interests as well as
>protecting law enforcement and national security interests.
>Furthermore, we also remain committed to promoting the growth of
>global electronic commerce through secure financial and business
>communications.
>
>Our position has always been to seek industry-led, market-driven
>solutions to achieve a balanced approach. What has changed is the
>direction where technology and the market place are taking us. Key
>recovery technology remains a very important part of our policy;
>however, over the past two years, we have recognized that key recovery
>is not a solution for all problems.
>
>That recognition, brought about in part as a result of our ongoing
>dialogue with industry, has helped us also focus on recoverable
>technologies that can enable law enforcement to continue its
>authorized activities.
>
>As a result, on September 16, Vice President Gore unveiled a policy
>update, which will not end the debate, but which does include steps to
>further streamline exports of key recovery products and other
>recoverable products which allow law enforcement, under proper legal
>authority, recovery of plain text.
>
>The update also provides for 1) the export of 56 bit DES worldwide to
>any end user under a license exception; 2) exports of strong
>encryption to U.S. companies and their subsidiaries under a license
>exception; 3) exports of strong encryption to the insurance and
>medical sectors in 45 countries under a license exception; and 4)
>exports of strong encryption to secure on-line transactions between
>on-line merchants and their customers in 45 countries under a license
>exception. This is consistent with our earlier announcement relating
>to financial institutions.
>
>This is an evolutionary process and we intend to continue our
>dialogue. We must continue to adapt to changes, and we will review 
>our policies again within the year to determine whether further 
>change is necessary. We intend to publish regulations implementing 
>the Vice President's announcement this month.
>
>With respect to developing a common international approach to
>encryption policy, Ambassador David Aaron, our special envoy on
>cryptography, is working with other countries to ensure that our
>policies are compatible. He has found that most major producing
>countries have public safety and national security concerns similar 
>to ours and are interested in developing a harmonized international
>approach regarding compatible infrastructures for electronic commerce
>and for a key management infrastructure. At last week's Wassenaar
>Arrangement plenary session, the participating states approved a
>number of changes to modernize and improve multilateral encryption
>export controls. These changes removed controls on products below 
>56 bits and on certain consumer entertainment systems, such as DVD
>products, and on cordless phone systems designed for home or office
>use.
>
>Most important, participating states agreed to extend controls to
>mass-market encryption exports above 64 bits, thus closing a
>significant loophole. This will enable governments to review the
>dissemination of the strongest encryption products that otherwise
>might fall into the hands of rogue end users.
>
>For those of you deeply interested in the details of our encryption
>policy, we have a specific session devoted to it tomorrow.
>
>[End excerpt]
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 07:02:34 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: Altavista hacked
Message-ID: <199812082203.XAA25646@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




It appears that www.altaviata.com has been hacked.

Begin Quote:
If you are looking for pornographic material (naked people)
                             please Click Here 

         Else please check back with us soon, we are under
                                construction. 

Thanks. 

End Quote

Resolving *.digital.com DNS entries seems impossible. Any ideas? Wish
DNSsec was deployed, it might of prevented this.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 16:39:33 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Web Hosting Providers in Many Countries?  For crypto archives.
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981208231218.008f15f0@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



John Gilmore has proposed setting up crypto archives in
many countries to avoid Wassenaar restriction problems.
Does anybody have a good source for information on web hosting providers
or other ISPs in a variety of countries around the world?
Shell accounts are nicer, because it's easier to create
servers that check where the request is coming from,
for countries that insist you only provide access to their citizens
but still allow you to do that on a web site.  The US doesn't
appear to have strictly defined legal requirements for such sites (YET)
and places like MIT have gotten quite flexible about it.

Also, are there any good sources of relatively private VISA
credit cards, preferably outside the US, that can be used
to rent computer accounts with?

There are other crypto distribution methods that, while slower,
are still legal from the US - censoring printed books embarasses
them a bit still, though some other countries don't have
the same squeamishness even though they may be less interested
in banning the material.  Printing PGP source books was annoying,
but a week's delay in shipping few-page crypto subroutines
isn't that serious, especially if it's in a scanner-friendly format.

Any guess how the various countries feel about faxes of source code?

And, of course, shipping or even selling source for 40-bit RC4
and 512-bit RSA is pretty simple, even if you don't include the note
"WARNING: DO NOT CHANGE THE #define KEYLENGTH TO 128 OR THE
#define MODULUSLENGTH TO 2048 AND RECOMPILE"
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 16:20:43 +0800
To: "David G. Koontz" 
Subject: Chocolate Rations, Strange-Looking Seed Pods, and quid for "The Wassenaar Arrangement"
In-Reply-To: <199812050240.SAA24692@toad.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981208234027.008b5100@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 11:28 PM 12/7/98 -0800, David G. Koontz wrote:
>John Gilmore wrote:
>>> PS:  I particularly like Ambassador Aaron's characterization that
>> this new development will help US industry, by censoring foreign crypto
>> publishers in the same way the US government censors US publishers.
>> A giant step forward for freedom and commerce everywhere, eh Mr. Aaron?
>> What an incredibly talented liar, I mean diplomat, he is.
>
>A glorious anouncement!  The chocolate ration has been raised to 20
>grams today, from 24 grams!
>
>(for those of you who thought it would never get here)


"The Wassenaar Arrangement" really does sound like 
the title for a bad Robert Ludlum novel.....
But the posting about the Blair Administration taking their
anti-key-escrow positions off their official web sites
does sound like the History Department's been at it again.

I've been going through yet another round of airline security people
imposing some new requirement and claiming it's "always been that way" or
"been that way for a long time, ever since I started working here."
The latest round is wearing hats through the X-Ray machine - 
they insist you take your hat off, even if you didn't beep,
and that it's an "FAA requirement".  
San Jose started doing this about a year ago, but this is the first time 
San Francisco has done so, even though they claim otherwise
(though I probably haven't worn a hat there since last rainy season.)

Most people who wear hats at San Jose airport are Mexicans in
cowboy hats, who probably don't care all that much; I'd expect that
the first guard at LaGuardia or Kennedy who tries to insist
that the Lubavitchers take their hats off in submission to the government
will find themselves surrounded by annoyed bearded men talking
about religious discrimination lawsuits....

Personally, I wear a hat because it keeps my head from getting cold,
now that I no longer have as much OEM insulation on it as I used to,
and while I don't have any religious rules requiring me to wear a hat,
I _am_ a Quaker, and we have a history of getting uppity about
governments insisting that everybody take their hats off in 
submission to government officials, or address them as "Your Highness",
or other things that suggest one child of God is worth less than another.




				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 14:26:30 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: German government press release on Wassenaar (fwd)
Message-ID: <199812090546.XAA16714@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Subject: German government press release on Wassenaar
> Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 06:04:18 +0100 (+0100)
> From: ulf@fitug.de (Ulf =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=F6ller?=)

> authentication as well as certain product groups such as wireless
> phones and pay TV devices are completely exempted from export
> control. The regulation concerning freely available products (public
> domain) has remained unchanged.

Is there any mention of wireless networking devices?


    ____________________________________________________________________

           If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me
           in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation,
           it is: bullying
                                                Howard Zinn

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Rabid Wombat 
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 13:49:43 +0800
To: Alan Olsen 
Subject: Re: spy cameras
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




But could it recognise an impeachable offense?

That would have saved us a lot of time, money, and confusion. I'm not 
even sure what *sex* is anymore.

On Wed, 9 Dec 1998, Alan Olsen wrote:
> On Tue, 8 Dec 1998, Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote:
> > POLICE scientists are close to a major breakthrough that will allow CCTV
> > cameras to "recognise" criminal activity.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Rabid Wombat 
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 13:49:12 +0800
To: b!X 
Subject: Re: Altavista hacked
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Try "altaviagra." Probably confuses the colors green and blue on your 
browser, and turns your floppy disk into a hard drive.

Since when did AOLers learn to use anonymous remailers?

> On Tue, 8 Dec 1998, Anonymous wrote:
> 
> # It appears that www.altaviata.com has been hacked.
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 09:45:43 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Wei Dei's "b-money" protocol
Message-ID: <199812090113.CAA09872@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



x@x.com asks about Wei Dei's b-money proposal:
>there must be something here that I'm missing.  At the core of this
>protocol seems to be the establishment not of crypto anarchy but of a
>crypto elite. in this scheme only the processors of computing power  have
>economic power.  Now I realize that our current economic system is based on
>economic power being invested in a closed community of powerful elites, and
>is by no means egalitarian, but this looks to be like simply substituting
>one group of "haves" for a different group of "haves"
>
>I have to admit not being familiar with the Orthodoxy of crypto anarchy,
>but if the premise is a centerless self organizing system of free agents
>this protocol seems to miss the mark. or what is it that I am missing here?

The description is intended to show how money is transferred, and how it
is created.  These are technically difficult issues when dealing with
electronic money, and that is what the proposal addresses.

It is not anticipated that most people will make money by using their
computing power.  That feature is only used when the money supply needs
to expand, because of increased economic activity.

Instead, people will generally get money the same way they do today:
someone will give it to them, either as a gift or as payment.  You are
free to give your money to whomever you want to, and you are free to
offer your goods and services in exchange for money.  Such exchanges
of money should be much greater in volume than the amount of new money
which is created by burning computer cycles.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: HyperReal-Anon 
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 12:46:08 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Survey Says Citizens Feel 'Threatened' By Government
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




   A survey has suggested that up to half a million American 
   citizens may have been upset by something they have heard
   about the government.
   
   The USG poll shows that one in five of nearly 4,000 citizens 
   between the ages of six and 16 interviewed for the survey between
   September and October this year were "uncomfortable" with some
   content heard about the government.
   
   In the US, 60 million citizens are estimated to know who Clinton
   actually is - roughly a third of all citizens between 18 and 60.
   
   Of those who have had negative experiences with the government,
   the largest proportion - 40% - has seen something "unconstitutional."
   
   'Not surprised'
   
   One in seven said they had encountered unconstitutional actions
   that "freightened them", while 25% saw actions that they thought
   "would get them into jail."
   
   USG Associate Shill Rob Lawson described the numbers as a 
   "significant minority".
   
   The citizen's charity DNC Welfare for Deadbeats suggested the survey
   strengthened calls for government regulation to protect the eyes of
   citizens.
   
   Libertarian spokesman John Carr said: "I regret to say I'm not surprised 
   by this survey's findings, it's what we have been saying for some time."
   
   Government nannies
   
   "Big Brothers need to know their citizens are looking for pro-USG
   information in safety and security. At the moment, they have no way of 
   knowing that at all."

   DNC Welfare for Deadbeats, which steals from the citizens to give to 
   those who are multiplying like rabbits with no means to provide for 
   their offspring, and advises the government to spend more money and to
   legislate special privlidges for some citizens who are "disadvantaged,"
   backs the introduction of "Big Brothers" - laws which filter out content
   unsuitable for citizens.
   
   The survey, called TLA.net, was paid for by Microsoft, the NOW, NAI and
   KRAP in syndicate. 
   
   The Ministry of Truth and Propoganda's forthcoming review on Internet
   regulation is expected to be published before Christmas.

[from news.propoganda.us]





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ulf@fitug.de (Ulf =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=F6ller?=)
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 13:56:44 +0800
To: cryptography@c2.net
Subject: German government press release on Wassenaar
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Press release from the Ministry of Economy
http://www.bmwi.de/presse/1998/1208prm2.html, my translation:

       Export control for encryption technology loosened

       No "key recovery" for cryptographic products

At their plenary meeting on December 2nd and 3rd 1998 the 33 treaty
states of the Wassenaar Arrangement have decided to revise the export
control for encryption technologies (cryptographic products). Export
control has been loosened, and the embodiment of crypto restrictions
has been hindered. Thus there will be no export ban for encryption
products in the future.

The previously comprehensive control characterized by a large number
of sectoral exceptions has been replaced by a positively formulated
list text. In future all kinds of products - hardware and software are
treated in the same way - are only subject to export control starting
at a key length of 56 bits. Mass market products that fulfill certain
requirements are subject to export control only up from a key length
of 64 bits. For the present the restriction to 64 bits is valid for
two years, it must then be renewed unanimously or it will be
cancelled. In addition, methods such as digital signatures and
authentication as well as certain product groups such as wireless
phones and pay TV devices are completely exempted from export
control. The regulation concerning freely available products (public
domain) has remained unchanged.

Certain states that had initially demanded special treatment for "key
recovery" products have not have been unsuccessful. Thus the export of
encryption technology will remain possible without depositing keys
with government agencies.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
>From an AP news report, my translation [The Green Party is part of the
new German government, but the Ministry of Economy is led by the
Social Democrats]:

Green Party member of parliament Hans-Christian Ströbele critisized
that the government gave in to US pressure for stronger control on
encryption. The agreement would affect the obvious need of computer
users to protect their business and private communication from
unauthorized access. Also the business opportunities of German
producers of powerful encryption software would be reduced in a
serious way. Thus when implementing the agreement in national law,
negative effects must be limited as much as possible.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: FitugMix 
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 13:51:24 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Power Outage in San Fransisco/bay area
Message-ID: <199812090531.GAA12050@jengate.thur.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Sounds to me like a practice-run for Y2K.

Max Inux wrote:
> 
> Well, we are going on hour 4 now, most of the power is back.  One group of
> 2-4 employees caused it they say.  This was admitted 3 hours later, and
> then they knew 15 minutes after it happens.. typical.  They expect to be
> back on by this afternoon
> 
> On the Shell Building at 8:30AM
> 
> "Building closed, no power.  Power will not be restored for 6-8 hours."
> 
> I wonder how they knew.  The estimate is probably about right too, wierd.
> 
> The mission village sub-station has been re-oppened, and most peoples
> power is now being revived.  Funny how 2-4 people not following procedure
> were able to shut down 4 substations.  Looks like PG&E have lots of work
> ahead to find out the cause/effect of this type action.
> 
> Max
> --   Max Inux   New DH and RSA keys Generated.
>                Kinky Sex makes the world go round
>        If crypto is outlawed only outlaws will have crypto




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 16:14:52 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Ber
Message-ID: <19981209071620.20649.qmail@hades.rpini.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I think Arnold Reinhold has the right idea, 100% - only post 
plain-English versions of algorithms. To paraphrase: "Banning 
plain-English instructions for building your own crypto
software will require the starkest abridgement of the First
Amendment."

Force their hand. Make them spell it out in the harshest
black and white. It is the only way to get the clueless 
sheeple to figure out what it really going on.

Jim Choate is also right. Empower _everyone_ to write their
own code, regardless of mathematical skill. Spell it out so
simply that people with access to only BASIC can do it in
their living room while watching TV. Yeah, so we appeal to
"the lowest common denomiator." Face it, that's 95% of the
population, and we have to get them on our side.


Jim Choate wrote:
> 
> Forwarded message:
> 
> > Date: Tue, 08 Dec 1998 10:41:33 -0500
> > From: John Young 
> > Subject: Re: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Ber
> 
> > Yes, Gilmore's proposal was to mirror the contents; URLs threaten
> > no reg-makers.
> >
> > Yep, mirrors of everything would be very large. We've heard already
> > that folks would like help in knowing what to mirror if they can't do
> > large archives, or can't easily decide which are most important.
> 
> [text deleted]
> 
> > What would help is a list from experts on what are the most gov-enraging
> > programs. We'd like to offer a few of those on jya.com, to test BXA's up-and-
> > running crypto-enforcement program, maybe get some jail and trial pleasure,
> > it's been too quiet on Bernstein, Junger, Karn, et al, a deliberate gov-stall,
> > awaiting Wassenaar.
> 
> Besides enraging, it should also include the necessary documents,
> monographs, libraries, etc. to empower others to write the code within their
> own legal boundaries.
> 
> If somebody makes the effort to compile such a list I'd like to personaly
> request they include this in addition to finished product.
> 
>     ____________________________________________________________________
> 
>            If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me
>            in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation,
>            it is: bullying
>                                                 Howard Zinn
> 
>        The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
>        Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
>        www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
>                            -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
>     --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 21:54:57 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin Walls (fwd)
Message-ID: <199812091324.HAA18021@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Wed, 09 Dec 1998 13:59:20 +0100
> From: Mok-Kong Shen 
> Subject: Re: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin Walls (fwd)

> I don't see why you have to pose such severe selection criteria.

Because those are the issues that will determine success.

> As long as a number of countries don't yet have export regulations,

Which doesn't mean they won't hassle the operators with various techniques
in order to pursuade them it's a bad idea to continue.

> If the 'economies', 'infrastructure' 'religon' and what not of the 
> countries do not (yet) affect crypto laws, why care about them? If 

They effect crypto by defintion.

> at a later point of time some of these countries do have crypto laws, 

If they don't have crypto laws it's likely they don't have a lot of other
sorts of laws and the social and economic structure those laws imply. This
makes it very difficult to operate a archive with any sort of stability or
protection.

> well, simply close down the archive there and let the sites in the 

And what about the costs and effects incurred by that person you so glibly
throw away?

> Much more important is to discuss how to solve the finacial problem

There is NO financial problem. It costs hundreds of dollars to purchase the
hardware. The connectivity is less than $100 a month in most parts of the
world. It simply isn't expensive or economicaly challenging.

That ISN'T the problem and should recieve scant attention while these other
issues are extant.

Bottem line, if you can't afford to put up a box then you're not going to be
able to afford to deal with the other issues such activities incur mainly
because you're going to be too busy trying to pay your housing and food
costs. In that situation you've better things to do with your time then run
an archive site.


    ____________________________________________________________________

           If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me
           in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation,
           it is: bullying
                                                Howard Zinn

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------


    ____________________________________________________________________

           If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me
           in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation,
           it is: bullying
                                                Howard Zinn

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 21:34:46 +0800
To: cryptography@c2.net
Subject: Re: German government press release on Wassenaar
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 12:04 AM -0500 on 12/9/98, Ulf Möller wrote:


> Press release from the Ministry of Economy
> http://www.bmwi.de/presse/1998/1208prm2.html, my translation:
>
>        Export control for encryption technology loosened

War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery?

:-).
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Joel O'Connor" 
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 01:13:52 +0800
To: Anonymous 
Subject: Re:
Message-ID: <19981209152621.2358.rocketmail@send1e.yahoomail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



They say education is power abd naybe they were correct.  I agree with
the fact that more people need to use encryption, the problem (as you
stated) is that people do not understand how to use it, or even know
it exists.  Unfortunate for us, fortunate for big brother.  While the
only way we can counteract this debate is through empowerment, the
question remains, how do you spread the word to up to a million
people, enough to get their interest and keep it, enough to take the
time to teach them how to use the tools.  I work for an IT department
and the users I train rank from intelligent to "where the hell did you
come from?!"  Teaching people who have no want or need is the hardest
part, just ask Christians, they know what it's like.  Our greatest
problems lie within our inability to train and make use of what lies
in front of us, if people don't see the need, then why would they?
  Another point, some people feel that if they have nothing to hide,
then why use it.  An acquaitance of mine has the same stubborn
attitude, what steps do you take to thwart that?  That excuse bothers
me beyond belief, but it is a common thought that if you need to take
the steps to hide something, then it must be wrong.  God help us. . .




---Anonymous  wrote:
>
> I think setting up mirror sites of crypto archives 
> across the world is a great idea.  However, I also 
> think we need to focus on getting more and more 
> people to use crypto.  I would guess that the vast 
> majority of computer users worldwide see no use 
> for encryption in their day-to-day lives -- and 
> even those that do don't also use it.
> 
> If everybody in the world is using encryption, it 
> is going to be extremely difficult for "democratic" 
> governments to tell them they can't use it any more.
> 
> Unfortunately, it's easy for governments to blame 
> crypto for terrorism and a host of other crimes, 
> simply because the average citizen doesn't understand 
> the concept of an "electronic envelope".
>         
> 
> 

==
Ogre bounces like sonar. . .Peace.
                  Ogre

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Dave Birch 
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 16:11:27 +0800
To: 
Subject: Re: Wei Dei's "b-money" protocol
Message-ID: <1298933977-40691626@hyperion.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Wei Dai said

>However if it did become mainstream I think there are some
>interesting macroeconomic questions here. Will prices really be stable as
>they're designed to be? Will there be business cycles? What is the optimum
>inflation/deflation rate?

Perhaps a solution is to fix not on a basket of commodities, or equities, 
but on provision of future service (much like Frequent Flier miles). 
Suppose the money is demoninated in Mb of web hosting (I've no idea 
whether this would be a good choice as I just made it up). Then you know 
you'll get what you want in terms of service, irrespective of the 
inflation/deflation. Sure, if web space inflates against the dollar then 
that's a problem (for people with dollars). But suppose you could 
accumulate the things that you actually want rather than specie (as a 
proxy)?

Consider this as a thought experiment. Microsoft issue m$, each m$ being 
worth 1 minute of Microsoft technical support. People who need Microsoft 
technical support would buy m$ (big companies would know roughly how much 
they might need) whereas people who don't need or want it would sell m$. 
Instead of storing up dollars, the value of which might fluctuate 
(especially since Microsoft could change the price of technical support 
whenever they want), companies now have a firm fix.

Just an idea.

Regards,
Dave Birch.

=== mailto:daveb@hyperion.co.uk ===== http://www.hyperion.co.uk/ ===




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 21:24:38 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built BerlinWalls
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


To: John Young 
Cc: cryptography@c2.net, John Gilmore 
Subject: Re: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin Walls
Date: Tue, 08 Dec 1998 19:36:23 -0500
From: Dan Geer 
Sender: owner-cryptography@c2.net


Tradeoff time.

====

Q: Is it better for the providers of crypto resources to alarm/log
   accesses to their websites or not?

I'd strongly argue not;
  Team Despot will disguise itself and we are surveilled as we speak;
  Team Legion loses if it creates targets for harvesting.

====

Q: Is coordinated integrity control (code signing) a Good Thing?

I'd weakly argue not;
  The absence of a coordinated signing strategy does not preclude
  verification so avoiding common-mode fraud, e.g., long-running
  denial of service attacks on the central signing agent, seems
  advantageous.

Alternative argument;
  Integrity of crypto code can be signed via quorumed split-key
  means so that no single actor fraud is effective yet only the
  minimum quorum need be online at any given time; this has
  the advantage that a completed split-key signature cannot be
  attributed to which quorum subset made it yet is verifiable
  by ordinary client means once complete.  Since intermediate
  (partial signing) results do not leak fragment holder identity,
  quorum members can indirectly communicate through commonly
  held dead-drops.

====

Q: Should requestors routinely avoid surveilled identification?

I'd argue strongly for:
  We, Team Legion, must commit to a cell organization with
  pseudonymity coverage such as through the "Crowds" system;
  to avoid any one of us being guilty we must all be.

====

Getting the problem statement right for this
endeavor is the most important thing we have
left to do.  If the above sample is misguided,
say so.  To the extent it is incomplete, fix
it.  If one of us goes off the air, step into
their place.

It is time for us to walk the fine line between
undue paranoia and a heightened state of awareness.

--dan

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 22:44:49 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin (fwd)
Message-ID: <199812091354.HAA18154@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 07:33:32 -0500
> From: Robert Hettinga 
> Subject: Re: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin
>  Walls

> ====
> 
> Q: Is it better for the providers of crypto resources to alarm/log
>    accesses to their websites or not?
> 
> I'd strongly argue not;
>   Team Despot will disguise itself and we are surveilled as we speak;
>   Team Legion loses if it creates targets for harvesting.
> 
> ====

>From a security standpoint it is advised to log access and all resource use
for about 4-5 days so you can get a sample big enough to look for
under_the_radar_hacking. On the flip side you don't want to keep them longer
than that because they could be used in an incriminating manner, whether an
actual criminal act occured or not. I use the default buffer time (4 days)
for my mail package as my ttl value. Once that time is past the files are
bye bye.

If the security of the site is compromised then it's pretty worthless as an
archive.

> Q: Is coordinated integrity control (code signing) a Good Thing?
> 
> I'd weakly argue not;

> Alternative argument;

> ====

The code shouldn't be signed by any of the archive sites, they shouldn't put
their butts on the line. The code should be signed by the originators of
same. This verifies that ALL the archive sites have the same package and not
individualy modified ones.

The archive sites should provide some sort of hash to verify successful
transfers.

> Q: Should requestors routinely avoid surveilled identification?

> ====

There isn't any way around this one. If the site is up and it's advertised
and publicly accessible then expect to be identified. Either the owner of
the domain/network resources you're using or your registration to the
relevant domain name authorities will provide ample pointers. Of course
there is the strategy of registering the domain for a year only and then
each year register a new one. Then you could provide bogus address and owner
information. This of course won't slow a packet sniffer down for long. Onion
and CROWDS won't help here unless you're connected directly to the
anonymizer. If you're that close they'll find you by following the wires.

> it.  If one of us goes off the air, step into
> their place.

You so glibly throw people away...it's better to fix a system such that
there is a legal ramification (ie resistance) for the LEA's applying the
pressure; a fight in court. Beside shutting the sites down another primary
goal of LEA's is to keep the conflict off the evening news. There is ample
evidence of LEA's dropping charges because the group made it known they were
going to use their day in court as a platform for espousing their agenda.



    ____________________________________________________________________

           If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me
           in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation,
           it is: bullying
                                                Howard Zinn

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 02:37:48 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: No Subject ( camera nonsense )
Message-ID: <366EB658.3E32@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> I think we read a message not so long ago from a 'punk who
> spotted the prototype of these 'bomb-sniffing cameras' along
> a California highway, no?
>
Don't remember the date but when asked to pinpoint the thing so someone
else could actually go take a look there was no response from the
original poster. I wrote it off as babbling.

There is one device above the westbound section of 580 on the Livermore
side of the Altamont pass. About the size of a small SpectraPhysics
Laser, the surface appears solid - i.e. no visual sensor. My best guess
- radar for either speed measurement or traffic density measurement. 
Chemical sniffer - NOT. 
Radiation detector - perhaps, but I doubt it.

Best bet - traffic analysis. These counties here are always fighting
about population growth and the traffic implications. As if one stinking
town owns the entire godamned federal interstate. Little, carpetbagging
Napoleans everywhere you look. 

As for neural systems detecting illegal activity - yeah? what? Two
people talking? Looking disreputable? Having their hands *appear* to
coincide for a second? This "technology", if detected in a public place,
should be zapped and the promoters tarred and feathered*. 

*Superglue or RTV and polyfill may legally be substituted for the
traditional materials. 

m




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Ernest Hua" 
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 02:28:59 +0800
To: 
Subject: What happened to this NY Times article on STOA and Echelon?
Message-ID: <006401be239b$9d75d200$4164a8c0@mve21>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Does anyone have any idea what happened
to this article on STOA and Echelon?

http://www.icdc.com/~paulwolf/nytimes.htm

I cannot seem to find it in the NY Times
archives.  Is it really from 1998?  Could
it be from 1997?

Anyone been in contact with the author?

Ern





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 23:56:58 +0800
To: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov)
Subject: Re: I Got Mine
In-Reply-To: <199812082325.PAA28704@smtp.well.com>
Message-ID: <199812091457.GAA06871@smtp.well.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Boston on Surviving Y2K
By Boston T. Party
Common Law Copyright 1998 by Javelin Press
ISBN 1-888766-05-0
$22 softcover, $12.30 in bulk

I have seen a web site for this book, though don't have it bookmarked. Try
javelinpress.com.

-Declan


At 09:51 PM 12-8-98 -0600, Igor Chudov @ home wrote:
>Declan McCullagh wrote:
>> 
>> Well, if you're worried about worst-case scenarios (or variants on them)
>> it's as good as any and probably better than most. They've got everything
>> from gun tips to goat-raising.
>> 
>> I enjoyed it, FWIW. It doesn't make a pretense of saying what-if like a
>> bunch of the other books does: this says social unrest is damn near
certain.
>
>Alright, Declan, what is the title of the book, and better yet the
>ISBN? Thank you.
>
>igor
>
>> -Declan
>> 
>> 
>> At 03:13 PM 12-8-98 -0600, Igor Chudov @ home wrote:
>> >Declan McCullagh wrote:
>> >> 
>> >> At 12:07 PM 12-8-98 -0600, Igor Chudov @ home wrote:
>> >> >What I am looking for is a practical guide book on how to deal with
>> >> >cops and other law enforcement/jackbooted thug types, in the manner
>> >> >that minimizes my long term damage. Something along the lines of "You
>> >> >and the Police!", by Boston T. Party, a book that I greatly enjoyed.
>> >> 
>> >> BTW BTP has just come out with a Y2K book. It's a great read.
>> >
>> >Is it a useful book? BTP writings are always fun to read, but some of
>> >his recommendations seem suspect.
>> >
>> >	- Igor.
>> > 
>> 
>
>
>
>	- Igor.
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Alan Olsen 
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 10:58:48 +0800
To: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Subject: Re: spy cameras
In-Reply-To: <199812090104.RAA19228@netcom8.netcom.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Tue, 8 Dec 1998, Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote:

> >From :
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk:80/et?ac=001036222020742&rtmo=VqqqD8sK&atmo=kkkkkkku&P4_FOLLOW_ON=/98/12/3/ecnspy03.html&pg=/et/98/12/3/ecnspy03.html
> - -
> Smart spy cameras on the way
> 
> By Patrick Hook
> 
> POLICE scientists are close to a major breakthrough that will allow CCTV
> cameras to "recognise" criminal activity.

Why does this remind me of the book "Agent of Chaos" by Norman Spinrad?

For those of you who have not read the book (and you should), the
uber-police state was run by a master computer that could "recognise
criminal behaviour" and immediatly kill anyone engaged in such activities.
You find out later that it is not quite what it seems.

alan@ctrl-alt-del.com | Note to AOL users: for a quick shortcut to reply
Alan Olsen            | to my mail, just hit the ctrl, alt and del keys.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 00:37:51 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: Wassenaar/Crypto News
Message-ID: <199812091532.KAA16119@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



A BXA spokesperson said today that the text of the recent 
Wassenaar agreement had been received yesterday and it is 
now being prepared for release on the BXA website 
(www.bxa.doc.gov) maybe by the end of the week but maybe 
not until next week. She said she expected the US to be the 
first to publish the doc, after I cited the WA message below 
from Caspar Bowden.

She also said that the Practising Law Institute (www.pli.edu)
session on encryption controls yesterday was taped and inquiries 
should be made to PLI (a continuing legal ed org; ) 
1-(800) 260-4PLI. And that Bill Reinsch did not participate in 
the session, only gave the speech on Dec 7 noted here 
yesterday: 

  http://jya.com/war120798-2.htm

An inquiry to PLI (Betty Gray) has not been returned.

>From UK Crypto:

From: "Caspar Bowden" 
To: "Ukcrypto (E-mail)" 
Subject: More from Wassenaar Secretariat
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 09:19:09 -0000
Message-ID: <000401be2355$07529ec0$dc77e4d4@cpsb>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal

-----Original Message-----
From: Wassenaar Secretariat [mailto:secretariat@wassenaar.org]
Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 1998 16:54
To: Caspar Bowden
Subject: Re: Attn: Dirk Weicke

Mr. Weicke is still away, however, I can assure you that the Secretariat has
been recently authorized by all member states to publish the new Lists on
the web site.  This will be done as soon as possible.  Please be patient, we 
are a very small Secretariat.

Glenn Sibbitt
Special Advisor
WA Secretariat

Caspar Bowden wrote:

> Dear Mr.Weicke,
>
> We spoke by telephone on Fri afternoon.
>
> You mentioned that the text and details of the new agreement would be
> published on the Wassenaar website this week.
>
> I understand that you have been away sick for a few days (my 
> commiserations), but there have been reports from your colleagues 
> that there will in fact be no publication on your Website.
>
> I'd be most grateful if you could just confirm when publication of 
> details will take place, in particular the "Cryptography Note" detailing 
> key-length limits, and definitions of categories.
>
> Kind regards
> --
> Caspar Bowden                    http://www.fipr.org
> Director, Foundation for Information Policy Research
> Tel: +44(0)171 354 2333      Fax: +44(0)171 827 6534






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 02:31:35 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: The politics of crypto archives
Message-ID: <199812091742.LAA18947@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



 Forwarded message:
 
 > Date: Wed, 09 Dec 1998 17:46:37 +0100
 > From: Mok-Kong Shen 
 > Subject: Re: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin Walls (fwd)
 
 > Let there be a large number of sites. If part of these fail, there
 > are others that are successful. (Compare evolution.)
 
 But two sites don't reproduce to make a 3rd site, some set of sites don't
 deny environmental resources to others, etc. etc. Your analogy is flawed on
 many levels.
 
 If the sites go down that often what motive would somebody else have if they
 know they'll face the same sorts of problems and won't have any additional
 resources to help them face it?
 
 Why would you put up a site if you knew that the 14 others before had failed
 and that nobody would help with your legal fees when you did go down?
 
 It's one thing to put your neck on the block for yourself, it's a whole
 other issue when you start asking other people to do it for your benefit
 (they obviously don't need an archive since they have the resources already)
 when you make it clear that you won't reimburse or otherwise recognize their
 efforts for YOU.
 
 > > > If the 'economies', 'infrastructure' 'religon' and what not of the
 > > > countries do not (yet) affect crypto laws, why care about them? If
 > > 
 > > They effect crypto by defintion.
 > 
 > How, for example, can they affects the functioning of an archive, if 
 > you get the right people and machine?
 
 Because those machines have to be available and paid for, their utilities need
 to exist and need to be reliable, the police need to have some sort of legal
 boundary to cross, and you need some recognized and guaranteed legal recourse 
 for your own self defence.
 
 Those are just a couple of the issues involved in running a archive site.
 
 Things don't exist in vacuum. You naively take WAY(!!!) too much for
 granted.
 
 I'll tell you what. Just as an experiment put up a CDR node for 6 months
 and see what it's like. Keep the box up 24 hours a day, pay the electricity,
 phone lines, domain name, etc. We're talking less than $500 total if you
 already own a box. Such an experiment is within the reach of just about 
 any person who has sufficient resources (even students) to surf the web.
 
 If you don't have the infrastructure to send the email in the clear then
 crypto won't effect that one whit. And putting up an archive that nobody
 can get to is not worth the effort either.
 
 > > If they don't have crypto laws it's likely they don't have a lot of other
 > > sorts of laws and the social and economic structure those laws imply. This
 > > makes it very difficult to operate a archive with any sort of stability or
 > > protection.
 > 
 > It is not true that there are more gangsters in the small than in 
 > the powerful nations. What do you mean by stability (which has plenty 
 > of meanings)?
 
 Well of course not, the populations aren't comparable. However, it is clear
 that smaller 3rd world countries have much more stringent regulations or
 because the instability causes there to be no standards to regulation and
 lack many of the protections we in the US take for granted. It makes the
 continued existance of the archive problematic. Putting up an archive on
 Monday only to have it go down on Tuesday is pyrrhic at best.
 
 I use stability in the commen political meaning. The country has a
 political and social system that is long-lived, has a well defined mechanism
 for transfer of power (if they even recognize transfer of power), etc.
 
 If you're in a situation where some rebels or other forces start lobbing
 mortar shells into your immediate area then crypto is the least of your 
 worries. Or as in Columbia where a group drove into town, drug people out
 into the street and shot them in the head.
 
 Consider S. Korea. Even though it's a democracy it's illegal to operate a
 firewall. The closest place S. Koreans can get in many cases to a firewall
 and network security (for groups outside of S. Korea) is Australia. Now how
 do you expect to seriously run a crypto site when the military and police
 have a legal authority to come rummage in your system at will? And can put
 you in detention if you deny them that access?
 
 Those sorts of places are where crypto is needed but clearly can't do the
 job for themselves.
 
 > > And what about the costs and effects incurred by that person you so glibly
 > > throw away?
 > 
 > I suppose that running an archive is a voluntary (self-sacrificing)
 > act of a benovolent person ready to offer his service to the public. 
 > If his site has to close down sometime later, he has to accept his 
 > bad luck. Why should you care so much minutely for him? (And you
 > say below that the money problem is trivial!)
 
 No, it isn't self-sacrifice. It's sacrifice for the users of that archive.
 Their motives are not self-centered, they're society centered. As users of
 those archives you OWE them.
 
 I would suggest strongly(!) that you spend more time studying ethics and
 morality.
 
 > So it rests to find people who have the time and (that small) money 
 > and energy to run sites and some countries that aren't going to
 > have strict cryto laws in the near future. THAT, however, is
 > difficult, I believe.
 
 Duh. I wonder why....(well, actualy I don't)
 
 

    ____________________________________________________________________

           If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me
           in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation,
           it is: bullying
                                                Howard Zinn

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 02:56:37 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: (fwd)
Message-ID: <199812091747.LAA19022@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 07:26:21 -0800 (PST)
> From: "Joel O'Connor" 
> Subject: Re: 

> They say education is power abd naybe they were correct.  I agree with
> the fact that more people need to use encryption, the problem (as you
> stated) is that people do not understand how to use it, or even know
> it exists.  Unfortunate for us, fortunate for big brother.  While the
> only way we can counteract this debate is through empowerment, the
> question remains, how do you spread the word to up to a million
> people, enough to get their interest and keep it, enough to take the
> time to teach them how to use the tools.  I work for an IT department

I'd say the obvious answer is to buy a spammers mailing list and then use
it to send out a one-time-only missive on the issues with a directive of
where to go for more information. Mass email letters to newspapers all over
the US (or whereever you are). Hit usenet with copies. Buy add space in
newspapers and magazines. Hit up the local media for PSA's. Use the local
public access television stations. etc.

It's not the how that people are having a hard time with, it's the why.



    ____________________________________________________________________

           If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me
           in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation,
           it is: bullying
                                                Howard Zinn

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 02:56:38 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Intelligent cameras, a reference
Message-ID: <199812091817.MAA19280@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Hi,

Scientific American
Apr. 1996
Smart Rooms
Alex P. Pentland
pp. 68 - 76


    ____________________________________________________________________

           If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me
           in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation,
           it is: bullying
                                                Howard Zinn

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Ted Rallis" 
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 05:52:09 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: News on Wassenaar anyone?
Message-ID: <882566D5.00704154.00@domino2.certicom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



If cryptography protecting intellectual property is exempt from regulation,
my words are now my intellectual property -- all of them.

Ted





Jan Garefelt  on 12/08/98 11:11:33 AM

To:   cypherpunks@toad.com
cc:    (bcc: Ted Rallis/Certicom)
Subject:  News on Wassenaar anyone?




Does anyone have information on the new Wassenaar arrangement, or
information on when official information will be available?

I'm only interested in the crypto parts, and I have already read the
Aaron/Reuter story found on
http://www.crypto.com/reuters/show.cgi?article=912708583

Thanks

/Jan Garefelt







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 03:16:43 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: LEA Interviews
Message-ID: <199812091821.NAA09307@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



This is attorney protected information.

We've been having discussion with a legal person about being
interviewed by law enforcement officials and/or signing a 
statement. These comments are offered by permission (and might 
be coupled with DCF's advice of saying only "I Want a Lawyer"):

[Begin comments]

> What do  you mean, that they would use the information to 
> "impeach" a possible witness?  Do you mean that he would not 
> be called to testify against a defendant?

Sorry to be opaque - "impeachment" means, basically, making a 
witness lose credibility with the jury. The only use I've been 
able to imagine for wanting a written statement is to make you 
look bad, in the event that you are called by either side to 
testify, and end up testifying favorably to the defendant. If you
appear to be a "hostile witness", it's even possible that you can 
be impeached by the attorney/party who asked you to testify.

The scenario I see looks something like this - 

1.	You're called as a defense witness to testify to the 
effect that you've been on the list for years, messages like the
defendants's weren't unique or especially unusual, that you 
understood them as satire or political commentary and not as actual 
threats, given the wider context in which they occurred. The 
general impression conveyed by your testimony is that you're a 
rational, reasonable, respectable person who the jury can like and 
trust, that you think the defendant is perhaps weird but basically 
misunderstood and harmless. 

2.	The prosecution cross-examines you about your conclusions 
re the defendant - they're going to ask you how well you really 
knew/know him, how much you knew about his other behavior (they're 
likely to try to sneak in information about the defendant's other 
alleged misbehavior here, if they haven't already), and so forth. 

To the extent that you say you didn't know him, your direct 
testimony becomes less and less relevant - and if you start to
say that you did know him well, they're likely to produce the 
document you wrote/signed, and ask you a series of uncomfortable 
questions about it, designed to create the impression you were 
lying to the jury earlier during your testimony, e.g., if the 
statement says "I didn't know that the defendant had done these 
other creepy things, and they make me question whether or not I
know him very well, and I feel differently about his threats now 
that I know about those creepy things", the prosecutor will make 
a big production out of pointing out the differences between your 
testimony at trial and what you wrote during the LEA interrogation. 

Understandably, you probably wanted to distance yourself from 
the defendant when the LE agents were in your home, especially 
after they'd given you a list of creepy things he supposedly did - 
but they're going to hold you to the same degree of distance from 
him and his thoughts/actions if you end up testifying at trial. 

Writing it down and having you sign it serves several purposes - 
it gives the prosecutor a document s/he can wave around, ask you 
to read from, and otherwise organize a little production around - 
it also lets you be impeached with your own words, instead of 
calling the cops to the stand to dispute your recollection of 
your conversation, which takes on a "he said/she said" tone, and 
might make it look like the big mean cops were picking on poor
little you. If they can make poor little you eat his own words, 
they look good, and you look bad.

So .. that's what I'm afraid the document is for. I've been trying 
to think of something else - but especially where the agents asked 
you to pick out just key bits of your conversation, and assert that 
they're true, and let the rest of the information be lost to memory 
and time .. it makes me think the information they selected was 
important to them. The information they got seems helpful to them 
only in the context that you end up testifying at trial - I can't 
think of any other reason it would be useful to them. It sounds 

like the psychological factors of the questioning were pretty well
optimized to make you want (probably partly subconsciously) to 
distance yourself from the defendant, both to avoid implied guilt 
by association, and to maintain a common ground of reasonableness 
with the cops while discussing other things like politics. 

The current issue of the Utne Reader has a piece by the Unabomber's 
brother and his wife talking about how the FBI manipulated them 
into providing evidence against the Unabomber by appearing
sympathetic and reasonable, forming a common "us (good people) 
versus the actions of they crazy guy, who needs us to work together 
to help him get better" bond which was ultimately used to try to 
kill the crazy guy, to the horror of the brother/wife. 

While I do think that they may have pulled a fast one on you, I don't 
think that reflects badly on you as a person .. it's pretty difficult 
to tell which cops are actually reasonable people, and which are 
pretending to be reasonable people in order to further their own 
agendas. 

[End comments]






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 04:06:33 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: The politics of crypto archives (fwd)
Message-ID: <199812091926.NAA19818@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Wed, 09 Dec 1998 20:03:05 +0100
> From: Mok-Kong Shen 
> Subject: Re: The politics of crypto archives

> We were talking about a site that has to be closed because of (new)
> crypto laws, not technically down which is seldom with modern hardware.
> And also you said that money is no problem!

You need to go back and re-read what prompted this. Your responce is
completely out of context.

> Why you care so much about people who voluteer to run sites? They
> certainly know what kind of risks that they probably face, financial
> or otherwise. Do you care your neighbour who opens up a new company
> and do you feel unconditionally have to give him advices?? Are you 
> the one who is cleverer than all the others?

It depends, do I shop there?

I'm done with this discussion. You want to expect people to put their neck
on the line and you use their services while owning them nothing then wonder
why nobody does it, so be it.


    ____________________________________________________________________

           If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me
           in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation,
           it is: bullying
                                                Howard Zinn

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 04:08:48 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: German government press release on Wassenaar (fwd)
Message-ID: <199812091927.NAA19892@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Wed, 9 Dec 98 20:04 +0100
> From: ulf@fitug.de (Ulf =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=F6ller?=)
> Subject: Re: German government press release on Wassenaar

> 1.) Officials point out that "export control" does not mean "export
> restriction".

Spin-doctor bullshit.

  There are forms of "export control" (such as the
> requirement to notify the Export Office of your exports) that do not
> hinder the export of crypto software in any significant way.  So it
> remains to be seen how Germany and other countries will implement
> the new rules.

And why should one need to notify them if there is not at least the implied
ability on their part to say "NO, you won't either."?

> 2.) The government has acknowledged that public domain software
> remains unrestricted. This also applies to copyrighted software such
> as PGP which "has been made available without restrictions upon its
> further dissemination".

PGP is NOT unrestrited.


    ____________________________________________________________________

           If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me
           in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation,
           it is: bullying
                                                Howard Zinn

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Wilson, Jamie (J.R.)" 
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 03:52:26 +0800
To: "'cypherpunks@toad.com>
Subject: RE: Encryption for the Masses
Message-ID: <199812091830.NAA29833@mailfw2.ford.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

We live in a society where freedom is largely an illusion and where
Big Brother doesn't fear protest by the general population.  In most
cases, simply creating a crisis is enough for individuals to not only
give their liberties up but to actually plead for their liberties to
be taken away in the name of safety and security.  What they don't
realize is that the sheep are begging the wolves to protect them. 
It's not the militia guy next door that I'm worried about -- he pretty
much tells us what he's up to.  What I'm afraid of is the NSA reading
my email and listening to my phone calls without my knowledge.

So how do we get the masses to realize that we aren't talking about a
potential threat, but are actually already living in a Big Brother
society with very few secrets.  We can continue to bury our heads in
the illusion that we really are free, but we have to ask ourselves
whether we are more free today than we were ten years, five years or
even a year ago.  If the answer is no, then there is a serious
problem.

So excusing my rant, my point is that when the average individual
wakes up and realizes that his or her life really is an open book and
that every piece of email sent has been filtered through a computer
somewhere, that every posting to a newsgroup has been archived and
just may pop up and haunt them in the future, when they realize that
the only privacy available to them is the privacy that they claim and
defend then, and only then, will we see a change in crypto policies
around the world.  When the citizenry begins demanding accountability
by elected officials for the privacy that they've sold, for the chains
they've placed on their constituents and for the oaths they have
broken then we'll see the tide change for the better.

Until then, the rest of us will have to wage the fight to protect the
ignorant.

____________________________________________________
J. Richard Wilson       
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.5.5

iQA/AwUBNm7BSsDUWXiy5rQXEQJRUQCdEUMFE6kfNz2/hzJmOmiKoAyEKEYAoNtd
vAJ/Hc/RTsdDs+F7eLnroqCT
=Gxd/
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----              



-----Original Message-----
From: Joel O'Connor [mailto:ogrenivek@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 09 December, 1998 10:26
To: Anonymous
Cc: Cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: 


They say education is power abd naybe they were correct.  I agree with
the fact that more people need to use encryption, the problem (as you
stated) is that people do not understand how to use it, or even know
it exists.  Unfortunate for us, fortunate for big brother.  While the
only way we can counteract this debate is through empowerment, the
question remains, how do you spread the word to up to a million
people, enough to get their interest and keep it, enough to take the
time to teach them how to use the tools.  I work for an IT department
and the users I train rank from intelligent to "where the hell did you
come from?!"  Teaching people who have no want or need is the hardest
part, just ask Christians, they know what it's like.  Our greatest
problems lie within our inability to train and make use of what lies
in front of us, if people don't see the need, then why would they?
  Another point, some people feel that if they have nothing to hide,
then why use it.  An acquaitance of mine has the same stubborn
attitude, what steps do you take to thwart that?  That excuse bothers
me beyond belief, but it is a common thought that if you need to take
the steps to hide something, then it must be wrong.  God help us. . .




---Anonymous  wrote:
>
> I think setting up mirror sites of crypto archives 
> across the world is a great idea.  However, I also 
> think we need to focus on getting more and more 
> people to use crypto.  I would guess that the vast 
> majority of computer users worldwide see no use 
> for encryption in their day-to-day lives -- and 
> even those that do don't also use it.
> 
> If everybody in the world is using encryption, it 
> is going to be extremely difficult for "democratic" 
> governments to tell them they can't use it any more.
> 
> Unfortunately, it's easy for governments to blame 
> crypto for terrorism and a host of other crimes, 
> simply because the average citizen doesn't understand 
> the concept of an "electronic envelope".
>         
> 
> 

==
Ogre bounces like sonar. . .Peace.
                  Ogre

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mok-Kong Shen 
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 21:25:45 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin Walls (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199812082032.OAA13166@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <366E7428.D8A8BDB5@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate wrote:

> 
> I suspect that with their reversal concerning anonymous numbered accounts
> and other similar changes in their laws and their enforcement that none of
> the fully developed countries in N. America, W. Europe, Pacific Rim would
> be good candidates for this sort of shenanigan without some legal backing
> from the get go. That leaves S. America, Africa, E. Europe, Middle East,
> India, and China. Not a lot of hope there. If it's not political issues,
> it's no economies, no modern infrastructure, religious, etc.

I don't see why you have to pose such severe selection criteria.
As long as a number of countries don't yet have export regulations,
one can have a number of archive sites in each one of these
countries, in so far as the financial problem is solved. We aren't
choosing a single central archive that should be up for eternity.
If the 'economies', 'infrastructure' 'religon' and what not of the 
countries do not (yet) affect crypto laws, why care about them? If 
at a later point of time some of these countries do have crypto laws, 
well, simply close down the archive there and let the sites in the 
remaining countries take over the downloading demands of the
closed down sites. Isn't that simple?

Much more important is to discuss how to solve the finacial problem
of setting up such archives, to have people maintaining them,
the technical problem of storage and the general policy of storage,
I believe.

M. K. Shen




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 21:47:07 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199812091300.OAA10024@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I think setting up mirror sites of crypto archives 
across the world is a great idea.  However, I also 
think we need to focus on getting more and more 
people to use crypto.  I would guess that the vast 
majority of computer users worldwide see no use 
for encryption in their day-to-day lives -- and 
even those that do don't also use it.

If everybody in the world is using encryption, it 
is going to be extremely difficult for "democratic" 
governments to tell them they can't use it any more.

Unfortunately, it's easy for governments to blame 
crypto for terrorism and a host of other crimes, 
simply because the average citizen doesn't understand 
the concept of an "electronic envelope".
        




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: HaB 
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 04:09:05 +0800
To: Cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re:
In-Reply-To: <19981209152621.2358.rocketmail@send1e.yahoomail.com>
Message-ID: <366EC935.967DCF6D@gamegirlz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





Joel O'Connor wrote:

> They say education is power abd naybe they were correct.  I agree with
> the fact that more people need to use encryption, the problem (as you
> stated) is that people do not understand how to use it, or even know
> it exists.  Unfortunate for us, fortunate for big brother.  While the
> only way we can counteract this debate is through empowerment, the
> question remains, how do you spread the word to up to a million
> people, enough to get their interest and keep it, enough to take the
> time to teach them how to use the tools.  I work for an IT department
> and the users I train rank from intelligent to "where the hell did you
> come from?!"  Teaching people who have no want or need is the hardest
> part, just ask Christians, they know what it's like.  Our greatest
> problems lie within our inability to train and make use of what lies
> in front of us, if people don't see the need, then why would they?
>   Another point, some people feel that if they have nothing to hide,
> then why use it.  An acquaitance of mine has the same stubborn
> attitude, what steps do you take to thwart that?  That excuse bothers
> me beyond belief, but it is a common thought that if you need to take
> the steps to hide something, then it must be wrong.  God help us. . .
>
> ---Anonymous  wrote:
> >
> > I think setting up mirror sites of crypto archives
> > across the world is a great idea.  However, I also
> > think we need to focus on getting more and more
> > people to use crypto.  I would guess that the vast
> > majority of computer users worldwide see no use
> > for encryption in their day-to-day lives -- and
> > even those that do don't also use it.
> >
> > If everybody in the world is using encryption, it
> > is going to be extremely difficult for "democratic"
> > governments to tell them they can't use it any more.
> >
> > Unfortunately, it's easy for governments to blame
> > crypto for terrorism and a host of other crimes,
> > simply because the average citizen doesn't understand
> > the concept of an "electronic envelope".
> >
> >
> >
>

    I think the concept presented at the end of that last paragraph is one
of the best ones I have heard.  If put to the average user on those terms,
I would think it would be relatively easy to convince them of the value of
crypto.  No non-technical type would even think of sending snail mail
without an envelope, out in the open for everyone to read.  So the concept
of an "electronic envelope" for email is a very easily grasped one.
However, I have noticed that the rules that often apply to snail mail,
including basic grammar, punctiation, capitalization, etc., often do not
apply to email for some odd reason.    I think some more of the problem
lies in the fact that the tools aren't all that user-friendly for the
non-power user.  A lot of people are intimidated by the very concept of
email itself.  I can only imagine what they must think when someone begins
to go on and on about public keys, and private key, and codes, and
encrypting, and decrypting.  People fear technology.  They are the same
people who will never enter a credit card number on a secure web site, yet
have no qualms about telling it to someone over a public telephone, or cel
phone.
    That's a good place to begin, though.  "Would you send a letter to
someone without an envelope?"  "Then why not put your email in the
electronic equivalent of one?"


balance.

-HaB





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 07:13:04 +0800
To: Lucky Green 
Subject: Re: No Subject ( camera nonsense )
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <366EF650.B19@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Lucky Green wrote:
> 
> Traffic analysis is performed using wire loops in the the road. The
> sensors mountend on overpasses near truck scales fulfill a different (so
> far unknown) purpose.
> 
> --Lucky
>
The wire loops I know about use 60Hz AC and measure inductance. I 
believe that this would make them unsuitable as speed measurement
devices since measurement would extend over a number of cycles. They
might work if they were widely separated but you would have to be sure
there was only one vehicle generating the peaks.

I'd stick with the speed detector radar for now to explain the overhead
doo-dads.

m




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Marshall Clow 
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 08:11:24 +0800
To: Lucky Green 
Subject: Re: No Subject ( camera nonsense )
In-Reply-To: <366EF650.B19@lsil.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> The wire loops (in sets of two a few meters apart) are in every stretch of
> freeway in California. They report the numbers and speed of all
> vehicles. Have so for decades. This allows the Caltrans operation centers
> to instantly identify backups due to accidents, etc. Once in a while, the
> evening news do a story on these operation centers.
> 
> So we still don't know what the grey sensors do. Note that these sensors
> are typically mounted only above the two right lanes.

Check out  for real-time results
of these sensors. You used to be able to get results for individual
sensors, but they made the site "easier to use". 
-- Marshall

Marshall Clow     Adobe Systems   

Freedom isn't being able to do what you like, it's allowing someone else
to do or say something you hate and supporting their right to do so.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 14:55:34 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <4076a3c1cdc34d979bbb394d471b915e@anonymous>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



"Vladimir Z. Nuri" wrote:
> 
> ------- Forwarded Message
> 
> Date:         Thu, 3 Dec 1998 09:18:29 -0500
> From: Dan S 
> Subject:      [CTRL] Smart spy cameras on the way
> To: CTRL@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
> 
>  -Caveat Lector-
> 
> >From :
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk:80/et?ac=001036222020742&rtmo=VqqqD8sK&atmo=kkkkkkku&P4_FOLLOW_ON=/98/12/3/ecnspy03.html&pg=/et/98/12/3/ecnspy03.html
> - -
> Smart spy cameras on the way
> 
> ...
> "The quality is, it seems, in direct proportion to the amount of effort
> that users are prepared to invest in such systems. Since its
> introduction more than 20 years ago, the need for such technology has
> increased, and intelligent sensory information processing and
> information fusing is going to play a very key part in crime management.
> The next step is to add other sensory devises such as microphones to
> pick up the sound of breaking glass and sensors that can detect the
> smell of particular substances and trigger an appropriate  response."
> 
... [much deleted]


I think we read a message not so long ago from a 'punk who
spotted the prototype of these 'bomb-sniffing cameras' along
a California highway, no?



#!/usr/local/bin/perl -0777-- -export-a-crypto-system-sig -RC4-3-lines-PERL
@k=unpack('C*',pack('H*',shift));for(@t=@s=0..255){$y=($k[$_%@k]+$s[$x=$_
]+$y)%256;&S}$x=$y=0;for(unpack('C*',<>)){$x++;$y=($s[$x%=256]+$y)%256;
&S;print pack(C,$_^=$s[($s[$x]+$s[$y])%256])}sub S{@s[$x,$y]=@s[$y,$x]}







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 06:06:16 +0800
To: declan@well.com (Declan McCullagh)
Subject: Re: I Got Mine
In-Reply-To: <199812082325.PAA28704@smtp.well.com>
Message-ID: <199812092108.NAA22653@smtp.well.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I have been told in email that the correct URL is http://www.hotwire.com/

(not the same as the wired digital site)






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mok-Kong Shen 
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 01:40:24 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin Walls (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199812091324.HAA18021@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <366EA96D.B6E92992@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate wrote:
> 

> 
> > I don't see why you have to pose such severe selection criteria.
> 
> Because those are the issues that will determine success.

Let there be a large number of sites. If part of these fail, there
are others that are successful. (Compare evolution.)


> > If the 'economies', 'infrastructure' 'religon' and what not of the
> > countries do not (yet) affect crypto laws, why care about them? If
> 
> They effect crypto by defintion.

How, for example, can they affects the functioning of an archive, if 
you get the right people and machine?


> 
> > at a later point of time some of these countries do have crypto laws,
> 
> If they don't have crypto laws it's likely they don't have a lot of other
> sorts of laws and the social and economic structure those laws imply. This
> makes it very difficult to operate a archive with any sort of stability or
> protection.

It is not true that there are more gangsters in the small than in 
the powerful nations. What do you mean by stability (which has plenty 
of meanings)?


> 
> > well, simply close down the archive there and let the sites in the
> 
> And what about the costs and effects incurred by that person you so glibly
> throw away?

I suppose that running an archive is a voluntary (self-sacrificing)
act of a benovolent person ready to offer his service to the public. 
If his site has to close down sometime later, he has to accept his 
bad luck. Why should you care so much minutely for him? (And you
say below that the money problem is trivial!)


> There is NO financial problem. It costs hundreds of dollars to purchase the
> hardware. The connectivity is less than $100 a month in most parts of the
> world. It simply isn't expensive or economicaly challenging.

So it rests to find people who have the time and (that small) money 
and energy to run sites and some countries that aren't going to
have strict cryto laws in the near future. THAT, however, is
difficult, I believe.

M. K. Shen




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mok-Kong Shen 
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 02:05:25 +0800
To: Bill Stewart 
Subject: Re: Web Hosting Providers in Many Countries?  For crypto archives.
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981208231218.008f15f0@idiom.com>
Message-ID: <366EAC74.1953D4EB@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Bill Stewart wrote:
> 

> And, of course, shipping or even selling source for 40-bit RC4
> and 512-bit RSA is pretty simple, even if you don't include the note
> "WARNING: DO NOT CHANGE THE #define KEYLENGTH TO 128 OR THE
> #define MODULUSLENGTH TO 2048 AND RECOMPILE"

Software that are parametrizable would thus all be able to escape 
the export regulations that way, I believe. But they would pose 
strict laws on the use, i.e. actual key size employed by the user,
as is the case in France, if I don't err. That will be the real 
problem, I am afraid.

M. K. Shen




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 08:09:02 +0800
To: cryptography@c2.net
Subject: [ZKS Press Release] 50th Anniversary of the Declaration of HumanRights a Reminder th 	at Privacy must be Preserved
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


From: Nicola Dourambeis 
To: ZKS Press Releases 
Subject: [ZKS Press Release] 50th Anniversary of the Declaration of Human
Rights a Reminder th
	at Privacy must be Preserved
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 18:13:51 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Sender: owner-zks-press@zks.net
Precedence: normal
Reply-To: press@zks.net

========================================================
Zero-Knowledge Systems Press Release, http://www.zks.net
========================================================


50th Anniversary of the Declaration of Human Rights a Reminder that Privacy
must be Preserved.

Web site launched to allow citizens of the world to protest their loss of
privacy.

December 9, 1998 (Montreal)--On the 50th anniversary of the Universal
Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR), as well as in protest of the recent
changes to cryptography policies worldwide, Zero-Knowledge Systems is
spearheading a campaign to encourage governments to loosen newly imposed
cryptography restrictions. This campaign, seen on the web site
http://www.freecrypto.org, enables citizens of the world to express their
outrage and concern at the increasing loss of their privacy.

Article 12 of the UDHR states,

		"No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with
his privacy, family home, or correspondence...."

Yet, decades later, we are witnessing the unprecedented collection of
personal information and intrusions into the lives of many.  Internet users
in particular, confront multiple privacy violations while online.  Over 80%
of Internet users polled consider privacy be their primary concern.

The best defense for online privacy is to use strong cryptography, which
allows Internet users to preserve the privacy of their communications and
personal information.

On December 3, 1998, the Internet community experienced one of the strongest
setbacks to their privacy in recent years.  The 33 member countries of the
Wassenaar Arrangement agreed for the first time to impose export
restrictions on mass-market cryptography products.

Until December 3rd, the majority of the Wassenaar signatories did not impose
export controls over mass-market products that protect personal security and
privacy through cryptography.  The United States Department of Commerce
Under-Secretary has taken credit for convincing all other Wassenaar
countries to impose these added restrictions over cryptography designed for
average citizens.

Barry Steinhardt, President of the Electronic Frontier Foundation believes
"The US government has strong-armed the rest of the industrialized world
into adopting a policy that will make us less secure and more vulnerable to
electronic terrorism.  Our critical national and international
infrastructures need to be protected by strong encryption.  Weak encryption
with back doors that will be exploited not just by governments, but by
information pirates, will leave us at greater risk."

"It is not too late to reverse course," continues Steinhardt.  "Wassenaar
allows, but does not require, the other national governments to follow the
US' foolish lead."

"Cryptography is the key to preserving privacy for Internet users," explains
Austin Hill, President of Zero-Knowledge Systems.  "By limiting the
accessibility of cryptography, you are limiting people's ability to protect
themselves.  Now, more than ever, we have the ability to influence the
future of the electronic world; we must ensure that it has the same the
basic rights and protections that the UDHR promised us fifty years ago."

Hill continues, "We hope that Internet users will be proactive in protesting
this human rights infringement to their governments. The freecrypto.org web
site provides such a space, where users can learn about the issues and send
their government representatives a message expressing their dissatisfaction
with the tightening of cryptography controls."

The freecrypto.org web site provides a form that citizens can fill out and
have faxed or emailed to their respective government representatives.  It
also provides information and articles on the recently imposed cryptography
restrictions.

---------------------------------------------------------------30-----------
----------------------------------------------------

The Electronic Frontier Foundation is one of the leading civil liberties
organizations devoted to ensuring that the Internet remains the world's
first truly global vehicle for free speech, and that the privacy and
security of all on-line communication is preserved.  Founded in 1990 as a
nonprofit, public interest organization, EFF is based in San Francisco,
California and maintains an  extensive archive of information on free
speech, privacy, and encryption policy at http://www.eff.org.


Zero-Knowledge Systems Inc., http://www.zks.net, is a Canadian based
software developer dedicated to providing cryptographic solutions for the
privacy and security of Internet users.  They will be launching their first
product called Freedom(tm) in February 1999.

For more information, contact:

Nicola Dourambeis				Alex Fowler,
Marketing Associate				Director of Public Affairs
Zero-Knowledge Systems Inc.			Electronic Frontier
Foundation
Tel. (514) 286-2636 ext. 222			Tel. (415) 436-9333 ext. 103
Email. nicola@zks.net				Email. afowler@eff.org

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Wenzler 
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 08:20:21 +0800
To: HaB 
Subject: Re:
In-Reply-To: <19981209152621.2358.rocketmail@send1e.yahoomail.com>
Message-ID: <366F0A1A.654798B3@usachoice.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





HaB wrote:

>     That's a good place to begin, though.  "Would you send a letter to
> someone without an envelope?"  "Then why not put your email in the
> electronic equivalent of one?"
> 
> balance.

Would I send a letter to someone without an envelope?
One word: postcard.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Peter Wayner 
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 08:14:44 +0800
To: "Ernest Hua" 
Subject: Re: What happened to this NY Times article on STOA andEchelon?
In-Reply-To: <006401be239b$9d75d200$4164a8c0@mve21>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





The search software at the NYT leaves much to be desired. If you
enter from the front page, it assumes you only want to search
TODAY's copy of the paper. You have to re-search and click on
the whole archives. Of course, that often yields too many
articles to wade through.

For speed, here's the index of Guissani's columns. Read them
all! (But don't collect them and post them to your own website.
That's copyright violation.)

http://www.nytimes.com/library/tech/reference/indexeurobytes.html

Here's the article in question:

http://www.nytimes.com/library/cyber/euro/022498euro.html





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: KS 
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 11:28:45 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: No Subject ( camera nonsense )
In-Reply-To: <366EF650.B19@lsil.com>
Message-ID: <199812100302.TAA04421@pickles.eminencesoftware.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On the 10 Freeway about 2 miles east of Downtown Los Angeles, three are
overhead rails on both sides of the freeway with a "sensor" of some type
over EACH lane. A total of about 10 sensors. There are also cameras all
over the place. I would imagine that it is a future revenue center for the
state of California. Obfuscate your license plate to lower your road taxes.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: mgraffam@idsi.net
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 08:14:42 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: A server for a crypto CD?
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Hello all .. 

Does anyone have a server with a CDROM drive?

I have a 500+ meg archive of crypto-related material (crypto, stego,
tempest, information theory, etc). Lots of software, applications,
and papers (100M or so). 

I'd be glad to burn out a CD, and send it to anyone who can put the
material online. It'll take time to get it ready: I need time to
strip out some stuff (non-redistributable Fortezza stuff .. its probably
a moot point, now that we have Skipjack, but why risk it for something
so dumb?). 

If you have the bandwidth, let me know.

Michael J. Graffam (mgraffam@idsi.net)
They (who) seek to establish systems of government based on the
regimentation of all human beings by a handful of individual rulers..
call this a new order. It is not new, and it is not order."
				- Franklin Delano Roosevelt




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Lucky Green 
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 03:47:51 +0800
To: Michael Motyka 
Subject: Re: No Subject ( camera nonsense )
In-Reply-To: <366EB658.3E32@lsil.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Traffic analysis is performed using wire loops in the the road. The
sensors mountend on overpasses near truck scales fulfill a different (so
far unknown) purpose.

--Lucky

On Wed, 9 Dec 1998, Michael Motyka wrote:

> 
> > I think we read a message not so long ago from a 'punk who
> > spotted the prototype of these 'bomb-sniffing cameras' along
> > a California highway, no?
> >
> Don't remember the date but when asked to pinpoint the thing so someone
> else could actually go take a look there was no response from the
> original poster. I wrote it off as babbling.
> 
> There is one device above the westbound section of 580 on the Livermore
> side of the Altamont pass. About the size of a small SpectraPhysics
> Laser, the surface appears solid - i.e. no visual sensor. My best guess
> - radar for either speed measurement or traffic density measurement. 
> Chemical sniffer - NOT. 
> Radiation detector - perhaps, but I doubt it.
> 
> Best bet - traffic analysis. These counties here are always fighting
> about population growth and the traffic implications. As if one stinking
> town owns the entire godamned federal interstate. Little, carpetbagging
> Napoleans everywhere you look. 
> 
> As for neural systems detecting illegal activity - yeah? what? Two
> people talking? Looking disreputable? Having their hands *appear* to
> coincide for a second? This "technology", if detected in a public place,
> should be zapped and the promoters tarred and feathered*. 
> 
> *Superglue or RTV and polyfill may legally be substituted for the
> traditional materials. 
> 
> m
> 
> 


-- Lucky Green  PGP v5 encrypted email preferred.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mok-Kong Shen 
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 04:13:58 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: The politics of crypto archives
In-Reply-To: <199812091742.LAA18947@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <366EC969.DA01FF3F@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate wrote:
> 

>  > Let there be a large number of sites. If part of these fail, there
>  > are others that are successful. (Compare evolution.)
> 
>  But two sites don't reproduce to make a 3rd site, some set of sites don't
>  deny environmental resources to others, etc. etc. Your analogy is flawed on
>  many levels.

It simply means survival of the fittest.

> 
>  If the sites go down that often what motive would somebody else have if they
>  know they'll face the same sorts of problems and won't have any additional
>  resources to help them face it?
> 
>  Why would you put up a site if you knew that the 14 others before had failed
>  and that nobody would help with your legal fees when you did go down?
> 
>  It's one thing to put your neck on the block for yourself, it's a whole
>  other issue when you start asking other people to do it for your benefit
>  (they obviously don't need an archive since they have the resources already)
>  when you make it clear that you won't reimburse or otherwise recognize their
>  efforts for YOU.

We were talking about a site that has to be closed because of (new)
crypto laws, not technically down which is seldom with modern hardware.
And also you said that money is no problem!

Why you care so much about people who voluteer to run sites? They
certainly know what kind of risks that they probably face, financial
or otherwise. Do you care your neighbour who opens up a new company
and do you feel unconditionally have to give him advices?? Are you 
the one who is cleverer than all the others?


> 
>  > > > If the 'economies', 'infrastructure' 'religon' and what not of the
>  > > > countries do not (yet) affect crypto laws, why care about them? If
>  > >
>  > > They effect crypto by defintion.
>  >
>  > How, for example, can they affects the functioning of an archive, if
>  > you get the right people and machine?
> 
>  Because those machines have to be available and paid for, their utilities need
>  to exist and need to be reliable, the police need to have some sort of legal
>  boundary to cross, and you need some recognized and guaranteed legal recourse
>  for your own self defence.
> 
>  Those are just a couple of the issues involved in running a archive site.
> 
>  Things don't exist in vacuum. You naively take WAY(!!!) too much for
>  granted.
> 
>  I'll tell you what. Just as an experiment put up a CDR node for 6 months
>  and see what it's like. Keep the box up 24 hours a day, pay the electricity,
>  phone lines, domain name, etc. We're talking less than $500 total if you
>  already own a box. Such an experiment is within the reach of just about
>  any person who has sufficient resources (even students) to surf the web.
> 
>  If you don't have the infrastructure to send the email in the clear then
>  crypto won't effect that one whit. And putting up an archive that nobody
>  can get to is not worth the effort either.

Then why did you tell me previously that the finacial problem is
nothing?? Any cite connected to the internet is certainly available
everywhere as long as the machine is up.

> 
>  > > If they don't have crypto laws it's likely they don't have a lot of other
>  > > sorts of laws and the social and economic structure those laws imply. This
>  > > makes it very difficult to operate a archive with any sort of stability or
>  > > protection.
>  >
>  > It is not true that there are more gangsters in the small than in
>  > the powerful nations. What do you mean by stability (which has plenty
>  > of meanings)?
> 
>  Well of course not, the populations aren't comparable. However, it is clear
>  that smaller 3rd world countries have much more stringent regulations or
>  because the instability causes there to be no standards to regulation and
>  lack many of the protections we in the US take for granted. It makes the
>  continued existance of the archive problematic. Putting up an archive on
>  Monday only to have it go down on Tuesday is pyrrhic at best.
> 
>  I use stability in the commen political meaning. The country has a
>  political and social system that is long-lived, has a well defined mechanism
>  for transfer of power (if they even recognize transfer of power), etc.
> 
>  If you're in a situation where some rebels or other forces start lobbing
>  mortar shells into your immediate area then crypto is the least of your
>  worries. Or as in Columbia where a group drove into town, drug people out
>  into the street and shot them in the head.
> 
>  Consider S. Korea. Even though it's a democracy it's illegal to operate a
>  firewall. The closest place S. Koreans can get in many cases to a firewall
>  and network security (for groups outside of S. Korea) is Australia. Now how
>  do you expect to seriously run a crypto site when the military and police
>  have a legal authority to come rummage in your system at will? And can put
>  you in detention if you deny them that access?
> 
>  Those sorts of places are where crypto is needed but clearly can't do the
>  job for themselves.

Remember the assumption is that a site is in a country which has
yet have no crypto laws. It then runs till that country poses
crypto laws. So you can exclude your example. If a country turns
out to be unstable than the effect is that we have one site less
from that time point. If there are plenty of sites, what problem
do you see??


> 
>  > > And what about the costs and effects incurred by that person you so glibly
>  > > throw away?
>  >
>  > I suppose that running an archive is a voluntary (self-sacrificing)
>  > act of a benovolent person ready to offer his service to the public.
>  > If his site has to close down sometime later, he has to accept his
>  > bad luck. Why should you care so much minutely for him? (And you
>  > say below that the money problem is trivial!)
> 
>  No, it isn't self-sacrifice. It's sacrifice for the users of that archive.
>  Their motives are not self-centered, they're society centered. As users of
>  those archives you OWE them.
> 
>  I would suggest strongly(!) that you spend more time studying ethics and
>  morality.

If you want to discuss ethics and morality then you should better
switch to other groups where there are more people who like to hear
you.

M. K. Shen




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ulf@fitug.de (Ulf =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=F6ller?=)
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 03:55:13 +0800
To: cryptography@c2.net
Subject: Re: German government press release on Wassenaar
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>> Press release from the Ministry of Economy
>>
>>        Export control for encryption technology loosened
>
>War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery?

My first reaction was something along that line. However there are a
two important points to note:

1.) Officials point out that "export control" does not mean "export
restriction".  There are forms of "export control" (such as the
requirement to notify the Export Office of your exports) that do not
hinder the export of crypto software in any significant way.  So it
remains to be seen how Germany and other countries will implement
the new rules.

2.) The government has acknowledged that public domain software
remains unrestricted. This also applies to copyrighted software such
as PGP which "has been made available without restrictions upon its
further dissemination".




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Missouri FreeNet Administration 
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 11:15:48 +0800
To: mgraffam@idsi.net
Subject: Re: A server for a crypto CD?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



We have an open CD platter available, and would be *very* happy to host
it, although it would be a low-bandwidth slot.  

Yours, 
J.A. Terranson
sysadmin@mfn.org

--
If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they
should give serious consideration towards setting a better example:
Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of
unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in
the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and 
elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire
populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate...
This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States
as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers,
associates, or others.  Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of
those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the
first place...
--------------------------------------------------------------------


On Wed, 9 Dec 1998 mgraffam@idsi.net wrote:

:Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 19:24:31 -0500 (EST)
:From: mgraffam@idsi.net
:To: cypherpunks@toad.com
:Subject: A server for a crypto CD?
:
:
:Hello all .. 
:
:Does anyone have a server with a CDROM drive?
:
:I have a 500+ meg archive of crypto-related material (crypto, stego,
:tempest, information theory, etc). Lots of software, applications,
:and papers (100M or so). 
:
:I'd be glad to burn out a CD, and send it to anyone who can put the
:material online. It'll take time to get it ready: I need time to
:strip out some stuff (non-redistributable Fortezza stuff .. its probably
:a moot point, now that we have Skipjack, but why risk it for something
:so dumb?). 
:
:If you have the bandwidth, let me know.
:
:Michael J. Graffam (mgraffam@idsi.net)
:They (who) seek to establish systems of government based on the
:regimentation of all human beings by a handful of individual rulers..
:call this a new order. It is not new, and it is not order."
:				- Franklin Delano Roosevelt
:
:




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 13:18:48 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: lots of juicy y2k news
Message-ID: <199812100437.UAA23232@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




------- Forwarded Message

Date: Wed, 09 Dec 1998 13:41:51 -0700
From: Bill Mee 
Subject: Y2K Alert - San Francisco blackout - Pentagon way behind schedul

The following is a free Y2K alert + analysis from Y2KNEWSWIRE.COM. 
____________________________________________________________


SPECIAL ALERT

SAN FRANCISCO BLACKOUT!
Guess what, folks: the power system *is* vulnerable to a
domino-effect failure. Earlier today (Tuesday), over one million
residents of San Francisco lost power. According to this WIRED
story (link below), here's what happened (as described by the
WIRED story):

"An electrical power substation about 20 miles south of San
Francisco failed shortly after 8:15 a.m. Tuesday, causing a chain
reaction that tripped the two main power generators in San
Francisco and knocked out power to 375,000 utility customers in a
49-mile square area. Pacific Gas and Electric estimated that 938,
000 people were affected by the outage."

The story quotes Peter Neumann, author of "Computer Related
Risks," as saying, "The entire power generation, transmission,
and distribution problem is suffering, because there is very
little spare power anymore."

The cause of the problem? According to the power company, "The
cause of the outage was simple human error, which then triggered
a complex sequence of events."

That's frightening. If "simple human error" can cause this, what
might complex human error (i.e. Y2K) cause?

The power outage caused massive problems. The SFO airport
suffered a total power failure and was running on generators, and
BART, the Bay Area Rapid Transit system, lost 17 of its 57 trains.
Elevators were stuck mid-floor and the morning commute was a
frenzy.

THE SAN FRANCISCO REMINDER
This event is a reminder of what can happen when Y2K hits, and
it alerts us to the fallibility of the power services. This was
ONE little glitch. What happens when the Y2K rollover causes a
hundred such problems? Or a thousand? And then you combine those
little glitches with other little glitches from the phone system,
the 911 system, the transportation infrastructure and the banks.
What do you get then?

By the way, this little incident is also going to deplete
inventories of generators in the Bay Area as people finally get
it: Hey, we could lose power! If you live in San Fran and you've
been *thinking* about getting a generator, you're now TOO LATE.
But it's not too late to move out of the city altogether, which
is probably the safest option, considering what might happen if
the power stays off for DAYS instead of hours.

In this case, power was restored within hours to most customers,
but that might not be the case when Y2K hits. Y2KNEWSWIRE
encourages people to stock a 30-day supply of food, water,
medicine, cash and heating supplies in case a much longer power
outage occurs during the 1/1/2000 rollover. Or better yet,
distance yourself from any high-density population center.


AN OVERVIEW OF THE POWER PROBLEM
*  There are few backup power supplies available, so some
failures that used to have backups no longer do
*  Failures DO cascade throughout the system. In this case, one
small substation caused a power loss to one million people
*  Power failures almost immediately bring a city to its knees.
All transportation is immediately threatened, and few businesses
have enough fuel to run generators longer than 24 hours.
*  All it takes is one simple little human mistake to cause one
million people to lose power. What might a complex, unpredictable
problem like Y2K cause to happen?
*  Demands on the power system are higher than ever, and extra
power bandwidth is almost non-existent. There is very little
"extra" to go around if power stations start to fail.


Read the WIRED story at:
http://www.wired.com/news/news/technology/story/16710.html

Or, an earlier report at:
http://www.wired.com/news/news/technology/story/16709.html

Fox News reports on it, too, at:
http://www.foxnews.com/stage04.sml




PENTAGON WAY BEHIND ON Y2K REPAIRS
This Union Tribune story (link below) describes the unimpressive
status of the Pentagon's Y2K repairs, stating, "...a recent
Pentagon report states that the Defense Department is behind its
own schedule for rewriting computer software to work after 1999.
While 52 percent of the military's mission-critical weapons and
computers meet Y2K standards, the Pentagon schedule calls for 100
percent compliance by the end of this month."

There's another deadline that won't be met. It's the old
December 31, 1998 milestone, remember?

So what's going on here, really?

"Y2K is taking longer than expected," says John Pike, a military
analyst for the Federation of American Scientists. The Army and
Air Force are 70% behind schedule and 30% of the Navy's systems
are behind schedule. Yet, somehow, the Air Force is promising to
have 85% of its systems compliant in the "coming weeks."

The story also reports how the NSA (National Security Agency)
has only 19% of its systems ready, and some fixes aren't even
scheduled to be done until October of 1999. And that's if they're
on-time!

DENIAL IN ACTION
With all this in mind, this story reports that John Hamre, the
Pentagon's No. 2 civilian says, "The Department of Defense will
be able to defend the United States of America on the 1st of
January 2000, no question about it." Then another Pentagon
official (unnamed) says *other* countries are still in denial.

THE ACCIDENTAL NUKE LAUNCH THEORY
The nuke launch theory resurfaces in this story, too, with the
following:

"Hobbled by a flat-line economy and deteriorating military,
Russia's nuclear weapons systems are susceptible to the Y2K Bug,
says analyst Kraig. Or, he says, computer glitches in American
early-warning systems might falsely indicate a Russian missile
launch. He suggests that the United States, Russia and other
nations with nuclear weapons stand down their missiles until
potential Y2K problems are resolved."

Link at:
http://www.uniontrib.com/news/uniontrib/sun/news/news_1n6year.
html

BUT CAN MISSILES REALLY LAUNCH ON THEIR OWN?
Yep. South Korea proved it just last Friday. Read this story:


CIRCUITRY GLITCH LAUNCHES MISSILE IN SOUTH KOREA
While the world debates whether nuclear missiles might be
accidentally launched by a Y2K-related computer glitch, last
Friday saw a fully-armed anti-aircraft missile *accidentally*
fired in South Korea. It killed three people from the raining
debris.

This Reuters story reports: "The Korean air force said in a
statement that a circuitry defect occurred as soldiers turned on
a switch which signified that all was ready for inspection.
'Normally the missile cannot be launched with this switch,' the
statement said. 'A circuitry problem, not human error, was the
cause of the accident,' it added."

Obviously, nuclear missile have far more robust safeguards
against accidental launch than an anti-aircraft missile, but the
comparisons are inevitable. At the very least, this incident
proves once and for all that problems with the circuitry
(embedded systems) can cause missiles to accidentally launch.

Read the story at:
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/wl/story.html?
s=v/nm/19981204/wl/korea_36.html
(Sorry about the extra-long URL link. You might have to reattach
the two halves if your e-mail program 'wrapped' it.)


WILL GOD PROVIDE?
It's fascinating. Here at Y2KNEWSWIRE.COM, we receive about ten
remove requests each week stating, essentially, "Take me off this
list. I don't need to prepare. God will provide for me."

We're guessing these people forgot about the story of Noah. God
helps those people who prepare, not those who ignore all the
warnings and think of God as some kind of giant FEMA service.
Whether or not you think God will help you through this crisis,
you *still* need to prepare. Don't let your faith in God be an
excuse to do nothing.

The people *best* prepared for Y2K, it seems, are those who are
spiritually, mentally and physically prepared.


MORE DETAILS ON FDIC'S CUSTOMER PROFILING PLAN
We've been called frauds and hoaxers for mentioning the FDIC's
new "Big Brother" plans that would have banks tracking and
monitoring all your private banking behavior and reporting to the
"authorities" any time your behavior veers from what's considered,
"normal."

Some of you didn't believe this was real. You were skeptical.

So today we're posting the actual link on the FDIC's site that
spells it out. Read it yourself and wake up: the banks and the
FDIC are going to play hardball on this Y2K issue. They'll do
everything in their power to discourage cash withdrawals while
putting a positive spin on it (notice the tame name, the "Know
Your Customer" program!). Why? Because they're fighting for
survival. Here's some of the text from the FDIC site (link below):

"SUMMARY: The FDIC is proposing to issue a regulation requiring
insured nonmember banks to develop and maintain "Know Your
Customer'' programs. As proposed, the regulation would require
each nonmember bank to develop a program designed to determine
the identity of its customers; determine its customers' sources
of funds; determine the normal and expected transactions of its
customers; monitor account activity for transactions that are
inconsistent with those normal[[Page 67530]]and expected
transactions; and report any transactions of its customers that
are determined to be suspicious, in accordance with the FDIC's
existing suspicious activity reporting regulation."

Notice the words being used here: ...determine the identify...
determine customers' sources of funds...monitor account activity..
.report any transactions determined to be suspicious...
suspicious activity reporting regulation.

These are not the ideas that should be promoted in a free
society. These phrases belong in the realm of a Police State,
where every person is monitored in order to "root out the
criminals." Or, in this case, to root out people wanting cash for
Y2K.

What happened to the idea of privacy for American citizens? If
this FDIC regulation passes, you can forget about it. Not only
will federal authorities have the right to dig through your bank
records at their leisure, the people working at the bank will be
legally *required* to snoop on you.

Interestingly, the proposed FDIC Big Brother regulation may
actually accelerate the cash demand as people try to beat the
"Know Your Customer" deadline and get their cash out early. The
FDIC may actually cause its own worst nightmare.

Read the text yourself at:
http://www.fdic.gov/lawsregs/fedr/98knocus.txt

Want to comment on the FDIC's Big Brother plan? Here's the
information given by the FDIC:

DATES: Comments must be received by March 8, 1999. ADDRESSES:
Comments should be directed to: Robert E. Feldman, Executive
Secretary, Attention: Comments/OES, Federal Deposit Insurance
Corporation, 550 17th Street, N.W., Washington, DC 20429.
Comments may be hand-delivered to the guard station at the rear
of the 550 17th Street Building (located on F Street), on
business days between 7 a.m. and 5 p.m. In addition, comments may
be sent by fax to (202) 898-3838, or by electronic mail to
comments@FDIC.gov. Comments may be inspected and photocopied in
the FDIC Public Information Center, Room 100, 801 17th Street, NW,
Washington, D.C., between 9 a.m. and 4:30 p.m., on business days.
FOR FURTHER INFORMATION CONTACT: Carol A. Mesheske, Special
Activities Section, Division of Supervision, (202) 898-6750, or
Karen L. Main, Counsel, Legal Division (202) 898-8838.

But wait! The FDIC e-mail address given here *doesn't even work!
* It appears the FDIC doesn't really want your comments. We dug
up the right address:
commentsoes@fdic.gov


WIGGLE ROOM
Don't ya love these Year 2000 "compliance statements" put out by
banks? Here's one sent in by a reader. It shows *lots* of wiggle
room:

"California Federal Bank has already anticipated these problems.
Our Year 2000 Project Team has conducted a comprehensive review
to determine the changes we need to make to our systems. Some of
the modifications are currently being made, and we expect to test
and have the majority of the modifications functioning by
December 31, 1998. I hope that I have been able to address all of
your concerns. If you have any further questions, written
inquiries may be mailed to our Year 2000 Project Team..."

With this kind of statement, even missing the December 31
deadline means you're still "on track" because you can claim that
you never promised ALL the systems would be done on time. Here's
our favorite phrase: "comprehensive review." If you've ever been
part of any committee, you're fully aware of the meaningless of
this phrase.


RIGHT ON TIME, CNN USES THE WORD, 'HOARDING'
Just as Y2KNEWSWIRE warned, some media outlets are going to
start bashing those who are smart enough to prepare for Y2K.
Right on cue, CNN publishes this AP story entitled, "Worry over
Y2K sparks hoarding of dried foods."

See it at:
http://www.cnn.com/FOOD/news/9812/07/y2k.hoarding.ap/

WATCH CAREFULLY! Watch for the gerund "hoarding" to metamorph
into a plural noun: "hoarders!" It will happen, and when it does,
that's a sign that the mainstream is beginning the attack on
those who prepare. We predicted it months ago, and you'll see it
soon enough, because the people who waited until the last minute
are going to be angry when they can't find the supplies they want.
And who will they blame? Those who prepared early, of course.

That is, unless the folks in Washington show some leadership and
actually encourage people to take some common-sense, basic
preparations. In fact, just today, Y2KNEWSWIRE issues a
nationwide press release urging John Koskinen to take some action
on this. Read our statement at:

http://www.y2knewswire.com/koskinen.htm


DETAILS ON THE POSTAL SERVICE?
There's one government agency we haven't heard much from on Y2K
yet: the postal service. If you work for the USPS and you'd like
to tell us what you know about its Y2K preparedness, give us a
shout at tips@y2knewswire.com

We'll keep you anonymous, of course, so you don't get fired.


MISSOURI DEPT. OF HEALTH DEMANDS DOCTORS PROVE THEIR COMPLIANCE
The Missouri Dept of Health is getting Missouri doctors hot
under the collar. A recent letter sent to all Missouri-based
health practitioners commands them to present detailed
descriptions of the steps they've taken to make their computers
Y2K-compliant. These must be returned by December 24th of this
year, and those who are late will receive stiff penalties.

Our guess is the Mo. Dept. of Health isn't even compliant yet.

More importantly, this brings up a critical Y2K point: you can't
just DEMAND everything be fixed on time. That doesn't mean it
will be fixed. China is trying this right now, threatening
criminal sentencing for companies that don't get compliant in
time. (Wow, neat trick.) The state of Florida is trying something
similar, although probably without the China-style imprisonment.

It's hilarious to see bureaucrats beat their heads against the
wall on this. They're so used to passing laws to change peoples'
behavior, they think it applies to Y2K as well. They think they
can just *regulate* the results of Y2K repairs, actually causing
things to be fixed by simply demanding so.

If anything, Y2K is going to laughingly demonstrate the futility
of over-legislation. If you criminalize "not being compliant,"
you don't solve the problem, you just end up with LOTS of
criminals after 2000.


FCC WORRIED ABOUT PLANES HITTING TOWERS
As often as the Y2K skeptics refer to, "planes falling out of
the sky," they almost never give it the serious thought it
deserves. There are, in fact, a dozen or more ways planes can
actually "fall from the sky," all related to Y2K.

The FCC recently revealed yet another one we haven't thought of
yet: planes hitting unlit radio towers. In fact, this scenario
has the FCC so worried, they recently issued an "Antenna
Structure Lighting Responsibilities" statement. Their summary of
the problem leaves nothing to the imagination. They say,
"Y2K-related problems could cause a structure's light systems to
fail, which will create a hazard to air navigation.
Computer-controlled devices, such as those found in automatic
monitoring and control systems used for antenna structure
lighting, are vulnerable to Y2K-related malfunctions, and may
fail. Commercial electric power sources may also fail, leaving
antenna structures vulnerable to blackouts."

The statement goes further, saying, "The Commission considers
all light outages and malfunctions as extremely serious
situations. We therefore expect antenna structure owners (and
licensees, who are secondarily responsible in the event of
default by the owner) to become aware of the ways in which
Y2K-related problems may affect their light systems, and to be
prepared to promptly report and remedy all outages and
malfunctions."

Can you say, "Y2K lawsuit?" We already know that at least *two*
planes are going to be in the sky that night: one carrying Jane
Garvey and the other carrying John Koskinen. Suppose one of these
hits a radio tower (because the lights mysteriously went out).
Major lawsuit time. The FCC has already warned the holders of the
FCC licenses they are, "secondarily responsible" for such events.
In lawyer-speak, that means KA-CHING! Pass the bankroll, buddy,
you just bought yourself a 747.

To review some of the many various ways planes can actually fall
out of the sky:

1) Ground control radar could fail, causing the planes to run
out of fuel.

2) Electronics in the plane itself could fail, causing the pilot
to lose control of the aircraft, resulting in a crash.

3) Navigation electronics could fail, sending the plane into a
mountain or straight into the ground.

4) Faulty air traffic control could result in a mid-air
collision, taking out *two* planes at once.

5) Problems with refueling systems or fuel indicators could make
the ground crew or the pilot think the plane has more fuel than
it does, causing a mid-air depletion of fuel (doesn't seem likely,
but it's one more potential scenario).

Read the FCC details at:
http://www.fcc.gov/cib/Public_Notices/da982408.html


THE Y2KNEWSWIRE MAIL BAG
(Actual e-mail sent from readers.)

"Greetings. I had quite a disturbing reality take place today. I
live in Seattle, WA and I bank with Seafirst, a northwest bank
owned by Bank of America. I went to my local bank with the
intentions of withdrawing my menial savings account of
approximately $3,000. I walked into my bank, filled out a
withdrawal slip, and approached a teller. When the young woman
behind the counter saw the amount that I was trying to withdrawal,
she literally began to panic. She had a brief conference with a
few of her co-workers and then informed me that the bank did not
have the cash to give to me! They were literally "out of money"
as she told me. "You could try and come back later today and we
MIGHT have enough then" she told me. I began to think what a
scary situation we are going to be witnessing when 10 people try
to withdraw just $3,000 each from their accounts! 


Y2KNEWSWIRE ASKS FOR YOUR HELP
Have you recently received a notice from your bank designed to
limit your access to your own money? If so, we'd like to hear
about it. One reader sent in this notice:

"In accordance with Federal Reserve Regulation D, [bank name]
will 
continue to reserve the right to require a 7-day notice on the 
withdrawal of funds in any money market or savings account."

We suspect banks are quietly taking action to place limits on
your ability to get cash. If you have evidence of this at *your*
bank, you can e-mail us at tips@y2knewswire.com


- - - Webmaster


_____________________________________________
Get ready for Y2K, read the Y2K Sourcebook
Get the inside sources for stocking up now
http://www.y2ksupply.com/index.asp?pageid=sourcebook

_____________________________________________
Tell a friend about the free Y2KNEWSWIRE.COM e-mail alert:
http://www.y2knewswire.com/tellafriend.htm

_____________________________________________
Sign the banking crisis petition, help save the banks!
http://www.y2ksupply.com/bankpetition.htm

_____________________________________________
This e-mail message is subject to the following disclaimer:
http://www.y2knewswire.com/Index.asp?pageid=disclaimer
All statements made herein, and made since August of 1998,
are Year 2000 Statements and are retroactively protected
as Year 2000 readiness disclosures under the Good Samaritan Act

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------- End of Forwarded Message




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Multex Investor Network 
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 11:13:32 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Welcome To The Multex Investor Network
Message-ID: <0caae1344020ac8SMTPGW1@multexnet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Dear Jane:

Thank you for becoming a member of The Multex Investor Network! We look
forward to bringing you the world's best and most complete selection of
investment research. We will also be in touch periodically to alert you
to new features, partnerships and offerings. We're excited you have become
one of the thousands of serious investors who have joined our community.

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Sincerely,

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Senior Vice President





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Lucky Green 
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 07:55:46 +0800
To: Michael Motyka 
Subject: Re: No Subject ( camera nonsense )
In-Reply-To: <366EF650.B19@lsil.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



The wire loops (in sets of two a few meters apart) are in every stretch of
freeway in California. They report the numbers and speed of all
vehicles. Have so for decades. This allows the Caltrans operation centers
to instantly identify backups due to accidents, etc. Once in a while, the
evening news do a story on these operation centers.

So we still don't know what the grey sensors do. Note that these sensors
are typically mounted only above the two right lanes.

--Lucky

On Wed, 9 Dec 1998, Michael Motyka wrote:

> Lucky Green wrote:
> > 
> > Traffic analysis is performed using wire loops in the the road. The
> > sensors mountend on overpasses near truck scales fulfill a different (so
> > far unknown) purpose.
> > 
> > --Lucky
> >
> The wire loops I know about use 60Hz AC and measure inductance. I 
> believe that this would make them unsuitable as speed measurement
> devices since measurement would extend over a number of cycles. They
> might work if they were widely separated but you would have to be sure
> there was only one vehicle generating the peaks.
> 
> I'd stick with the speed detector radar for now to explain the overhead
> doo-dads.
> 
> m
> 


-- Lucky Green  PGP v5 encrypted email preferred.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 15:00:36 +0800
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199812100628.BAA18557@mail.video-collage.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 15:27:47 +0800
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199812100655.BAA20370@mail.video-collage.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 17:09:50 +0800
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199812100837.DAA27571@mail.video-collage.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 18:25:05 +0800
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199812100948.EAA00801@mail.video-collage.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 18:28:25 +0800
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199812101001.FAA01142@mail.video-collage.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 21:01:06 +0800
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199812101230.HAA05983@mail.video-collage.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 22:00:43 +0800
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199812101318.IAA07530@mail.video-collage.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 22:25:13 +0800
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199812101341.IAA08273@mail.video-collage.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 22:51:45 +0800
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199812101411.JAA09463@mail.video-collage.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 23:47:16 +0800
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199812101452.JAA11059@mail.video-collage.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 00:57:32 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: What's up with the blank traffic from algebra.com?
Message-ID: <199812101555.JAA23959@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Hi,

Anyone know why algebra.com is throwing the blank messages over the last
couple of days?


    ____________________________________________________________________

           If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me
           in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation,
           it is: bullying
                                                Howard Zinn

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Missouri FreeNet Administration 
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 01:16:12 +0800
To: Ken Williams 
Subject: Re: Global Strike to protest Wassenaar
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




This is an excellent idea...  I have just massmailed an announcement
to our members: Missouri FreeNet will not be be operating on 14 December.
Has anyone considered creating a (web?) list of persons and organizations
who have committed to this strike? People are more likely to participate
when they know they are no alone...

Yours, 
J.A. Terranson
sysadmin@mfn.org

--
If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they
should give serious consideration towards setting a better example:
Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of
unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in
the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and 
elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire
populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate...
This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States
as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers,
associates, or others.  Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of
those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the
first place...
--------------------------------------------------------------------


On Thu, 10 Dec 1998, Ken Williams wrote:

:Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 09:05:58 -0500 (EST)
:From: Ken Williams 
:To: cypherpunks@toad.com
:Subject: Global Strike to protest Wassenaar
:
:-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
:
:
:Hi,
:
:"Strike to protest Wassenaar!"
:
:URL:  http://www.zanshin.com/~bobg/
:
:"This is a global call for computer professionals to strike on 
:Monday, 14 December, 1998 to protest the signing of the Wassenaar
:Arrangement, an international treaty that imposes new restrictions 
:on cryptographic software technology. The strike is meant to raise
:awareness about the importance of cryptography, about the U.S. 
:government's wrongheaded attempts to curtail its use, and about the 
:strong-arm tactics used by the United States to pressure other 
:countries into limiting their citizens' rights the way it has 
:limited its own."
:
:
:Regards,
:
:Ken Williams
:
:Packet Storm Security        http://www.Genocide2600.com/~tattooman/
:E.H.A.P. Head of Operations  http://www.ehap.org/   ehap@ehap.org
:NC State CS Dept  http://www.csc.ncsu.edu/   jkwilli2@unity.ncsu.edu
:PGP DSS/DH/RSA Keys          http://www4.ncsu.edu/~jkwilli2/pgpkey/
:
:___________________________________________________________________ 
:Get Your Email Sniffed and Decrypted for Free at http://www.nsa.gov
:
:-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
:Version: PGPfreeware 5.0i for non-commercial use
:Charset: noconv
:
:iQEVAwUBNm/VQJDw1ZsNz1IXAQGzygf/Zt/sP419T5dA1gY/Rru7ACtv6xWXWMUA
:HDBQPFbGV8yviOIU7N2bHndWGtr+hjPcdoudoXlOwYF73/TybNSzs6J/iAF9yhSR
:UmRKM+suH8FwJ90F+i36W8hCQrkhPYXEwXW4AWDEeGNKjZdRLApS/POMcnTWoTSK
:iHwDsdE+AevhlcWuC1nk80AlSEVNE/B2zmbWGax12tciM2NxTc4AqtqI3BwXebVq
:f/04ZC9515dR/XHGhtbmQ08sTNS9eQUG8H626XE58XtE+MOsVEJYjUQFDd9L13T2
:dlun/4+U1J9xMmN8uYlUySxKr9XmharSXLJCmpmIaE0bwDwTx7Pkpw==
:=DaVN
:-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
:
:




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 23:48:16 +0800
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199812101515.KAA12702@mail.video-collage.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 00:38:31 +0800
To: Multiple recipients of list 
Subject: Re: Hallandale becomes model for the police state
Message-ID: <199812101454.JAA021.00@whgiii>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



In <3.0.3.32.19981210151350.006add74@209.204.247.83>, on 12/10/98 
   at 09:53 AM, "Albert P. Franco, II"  said:

>The REAL injustice is that the only way to strike down these ludicrous
>laws is to be able to spend upwards of $5,ooo,ooo for litigation.

Just think how much more efficient $5,000,000 of ammo would be for
resolving these types of problems. 

-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
---------------------------------------------------------------






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 01:12:55 +0800
To: Multiple recipients of list 
Subject: Re: What's up with the blank traffic from algebra.com?
Message-ID: <199812101507.KAA021.25@whgiii>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



In <199812101555.JAA23959@einstein.ssz.com>, on 12/10/98 
   at 10:44 AM, Jim Choate  said:

>Hi,

>Anyone know why algebra.com is throwing the blank messages over the last
>couple of days?

Well I am glad to see it's not just my node that is getting these. :)


-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
---------------------------------------------------------------






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 01:52:30 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: A URL to the Monday strike?
Message-ID: <199812101721.LAA24672@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Hi all,

Just wondering if there is a URL that describes the proposed strike on
Monday?


    ____________________________________________________________________

           If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me
           in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation,
           it is: bullying
                                                Howard Zinn

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 02:13:12 +0800
To: cyberpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re:
In-Reply-To: <19981209152621.2358.rocketmail@send1e.yahoomail.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 6:39 PM -0500 12/9/98, Robert Wenzler wrote:
>HaB wrote:
>
>>     That's a good place to begin, though.  "Would you send a letter to
>> someone without an envelope?"  "Then why not put your email in the
>> electronic equivalent of one?"
>>
>> balance.
>
>Would I send a letter to someone without an envelope?
>One word: postcard.

	How often do you do this, and how much information do you add to
what is already there?

	Beyond "The scenery is here, wish you were beautiful", how much of
your life story would you circulate on a postcard?
--
"To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a
jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a
gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather naďve, and certainly
unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust"
http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html

Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro@playboy.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Shostack 
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 01:21:19 +0800
To: "Bernardo B. Terrado" 
Message-ID: <19981210114517.A8878@weathership.homeport.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Chor-Rivest was broken at Crypto98.  Don't use any knapsack
algorithms.

Adam


On Tue, Dec 08, 1998 at 05:04:22PM +0800, Bernardo B. Terrado wrote:
| Where could I find the algorithm (per se) for
| Merkle-Hellman knapsack ?
| (if it is not for free just say so) :)
| 
| I've read in Mr. Schneier's book that Chor-Rivest knapsack is secure
| (unless for some specializerd attack). Is it still as secure today as the
| latter years?
| 
| 
| 
| 
| 
| 
| 
| Bernie
| 

-- 
"It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once."
					               -Hume





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 03:39:53 +0800
To: ravage@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Subject: Re: What's up with the blank traffic from algebra.com?
In-Reply-To: <199812101555.JAA23959@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <199812101845.MAA13298@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



send the sample messages to me

igor

Jim Choate wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Anyone know why algebra.com is throwing the blank messages over the last
> couple of days?
> 
> 
>     ____________________________________________________________________
> 
>            If I can put in one word what has always infuriated me
>            in any person, any group, any movement, or any nation,
>            it is: bullying
>                                                 Howard Zinn
> 
>        The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
>        Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
>        www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
>                            -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
>     --------------------------------------------------------------------
> 



	- Igor.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Max Inux 
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 03:10:14 +0800
To: Multiple recipients of list 
Subject: COMMENT: Minimum Security Devices and Procedures and Bank Secrecy
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



A letter someone CC'ed to dc-stuff, we seem to be having the same
conversations there and here...  Waasenaar and FDIC "Know your customer"


--   Max Inux   Hey Christy!!! KeyID 0x8907E9E5
Kinky Sex makes the world go round O R Strong crypto makes the world safe
       If crypto is outlawed only outlaws will have crypto
Fingerprint(Photo Also): 259D 59F7 D98C CD73 1ACD 54Ea 6C43 4877 8907 E9E5



---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 07:13:55 -0800 (PST)
X-Loop: openpgp.net
From: KAT in the HAT 
To: comments@FDIC.gov
Subject: COMMENT: Minimum Security Devices and Procedures and Bank Secrecy Act 

I would like to state that this is the most Orwellian, privacy-invading,
search-without-a-warrant, snoopy regulation I have ever seen.  I believe it is
a horrible idea that should never be allowed.  I am growing so tired of my
government trying to monitor it's every citizen's every move just in case
there may be a criminal act committed.  

Every citizen is innocent until proven guilty and has a right to privacy
against such causeless searches.  As the 4th amendment to the Constitution of
the United States says (have you ever heard of it?): 

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses,
papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures,
SHALL NOT BE VIOLATED, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable
cause, supported by oaths and affirmation, and particularly describing
the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

What you advocate is a warrantless search of all my financial papers and
effects without probable cause or evidence of any sort of crime being
committed.  This kind of nosy government action is exactly the kind of thing
that should never be allowed in a free state.  I will fight to keep my nation
from becoming a 24- hour-a-day, 7-days-a-week monitored police state until my
last breath.

I urge you to vote against this ghastly measure and to banish it and any act
like it to the trashcan.  The citizens of the United States deserve better
than to be treated like children watched over by Mother Government.  

If this act is passed, I know what my response will be.  I will promptly
withdraw all my monies from any institution that follows these regulations,
refuse to do any sort of business with them, and urge all my friends and
family to do the same.  I know that many others will do the same without
hesitation.  

Try explaining to your member and nonmember banks why there is such a sudden
cash shortage and why they are losing customers left and right.  This act
would undoubtedly trigger a nationwide economic crisis as people withdrew from
a banking system that had become a puppet of law enforcement and Big Brother. 
We must be able to TRUST our banks with our money.  WE are the customers and
any bank that holds goverment surveillance above my trust is no bank that I
will do business with.

I will simply take my paychecks each month and cash them in their entirety and
then do what I want, when I want, unwatched, with my money.  I will not be
surveilled by Big Brother under the guise of protecting me against shadowy
criminals.  

I value my privacy highly, not because I am a criminal, but because I am a
free American, and such privacy is guaranteed to me by our highest legal
document (the Constitution).  I recommend the FDIC members read it sometime,
because obviously they never have before, or this ludicrous act would have
never even been proposed.

Simply put, this is the worst idea I have ever heard and strongly urge its
defeat and nonadoption.  Thank you.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
The masters of technology will have to be lighthearted and intelligent.
The machine easily masters the grim and the dumb. --Marshall McLuhan
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Wenzler 
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 04:08:53 +0800
To: Mbishop645@aol.com
Subject: Re:
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3670195D.F23CEDF6@usachoice.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





Mbishop645@aol.com wrote:
> 
> >HaB wrote:
> >
> >>     That's a good place to begin, though.  "Would you send a letter to
> >> someone without an envelope?"  "Then why not put your email in the
> >> electronic equivalent of one?"
> >>
> >> balance.
> >
> >Would I send a letter to someone without an envelope?
> >One word: postcard.
> 
> Ahh, but would you tape a check for your phone bill to a postcard? Other
> than writing a greeting to someone what else do you use a postcard for?

No, I would not tape a phone bill check to a postcard. There is the 
chance for it to fall off.

There is different methods of sending mail for different levels of
security and functionality. Some people make it obvious what is inside
an envelope. (who would not recognize a Christmas card from the
envelope?) Others make it as bland and normal as possible to
have it go by without much notice.

It all depends on how secure you want it. Some things you can do
with what amounts to postcard security.

What amount of security do you want for your email? Would you be
willing to do something extra for that security?

This type of question is up to each person. How much risk is the
person willing to take. Each person has the responsibility to
understand what the risks are and to decide what risks they are
willing to take.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jan Garefelt 
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 00:29:38 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: The new Wassenaar regulations; here they are
Message-ID: <366FEA7B.5552AB64@pobox.se>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Web version:
 http://www.fitug.de/news/wa/

Word- or RTF-version:
 http://www.wassenaar.org/List/

Cheers /Jan Garefelt




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mok-Kong Shen 
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 01:19:13 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: strange posts
Message-ID: <366FF7EE.3350F28E@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I obtained a bunch of totally EMPTY posts from

      owner-cypherpunks@Algebra.COM

in intervals of about half an hour. Does anyone have the same
experience and know what's the matter? (Further it appears that
a couple of posts of mine have been delayed and have not yet appreared
after the usual waiting time.)

M. K. Shen




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 01:52:34 +0800
To: Cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re:
Message-ID: <199812101653.RAA02619@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



So you'd be happy to staple a check or money order for a bill to a
postcard and send it off?  Are you trying to be obtuse, or is it
just a natural phenomenon with you?


At 06:39 PM 12/9/98 -0500, Robert Wenzler wrote:
>
>
>HaB wrote:
>
>>     That's a good place to begin, though.  "Would you send a letter to
>> someone without an envelope?"  "Then why not put your email in the
>> electronic equivalent of one?"
>> 
>> balance.
>
>Would I send a letter to someone without an envelope?
>One word: postcard.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ben Laurie 
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 03:58:31 +0800
To: "Ulf Möller" 
Subject: Re: Wassenaar summary (and a funny new loophole)
In-Reply-To: <199812101815.TAA120782@public.uni-hamburg.de>
Message-ID: <36701BB5.BB2D78CC@algroup.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Ulf Möller wrote:
> Since the definition differentiates algorithms by symmetry rather than by
> their cryptographic properties, there is no restriction whatsoever on
> asymmetric secret-key encryption algorithms. Those algorithms typically
> are not based on factorization or discrete logarithms. That is, they are
> no longer controlled by the Wassenaar arrangement.

Hmm - so if I defined a new crytpo algorithm, SED3, say, that looks like
this:

SED3(k,x)=3DES(backwards(k),x)

where backwards(k) is k with its bits written backwards, then the
3DES/SED3(k1,k2) combination is exportable (where k1 is related to k2,
of course, by k2=backwards(k1))?

Cheers,

Ben.

-- 
Ben Laurie            |Phone: +44 (181) 735 0686| Apache Group member
Freelance Consultant  |Fax:   +44 (181) 735 0689|http://www.apache.org/
and Technical Director|Email: ben@algroup.co.uk |
A.L. Digital Ltd,     |Apache-SSL author     http://www.apache-ssl.org/
London, England.      |"Apache: TDG" http://www.ora.com/catalog/apache/




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ulf@fitug.de (Ulf =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=F6ller?=)
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 03:20:20 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Wassenaar summary (and a funny new loophole)
In-Reply-To: <199812101320.IAA12597@smtp1.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <199812101815.TAA120782@public.uni-hamburg.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> The Wassenaar Arrangement has put up the Dec. 3 lists
> agreed to by members:

To summarize the crypto rules:

Software is freely exportable if it has been made available without
restrictions upon its further dissemination. Copyright restrictions
do not count.

Mass market cryto software is no longer covered by the General Software
Note, but by a Cryptography Note. Under that note, mass market software
and hardware is not controlled if it does not use symmetric keys longer
than 64 bits and the cryptographic functionality cannot easily changed
by the user.

Systems that do not meet those conditions are export-controlled if they
use symmetric encryption with more than 56 bit keys, algorithms based 
on factorization or on logarithms in finite fields with more than 512
bit keys (e.g. RSA, DH) or on discrete logarithms in other groups (such
as elliptic curves) with more than 112 bits. They may be exported for
personal use.

There are exceptions for execution of copy-protected software and
read-only media and for phones without end-to-end encryption.


The list contains an amusing editorial error which would for the first
time allow the export of strong crypto hardware. "Symmetric algorithm"
is defined to mean 'a cryptographic algorithm using an identical key for
both encryption and decryption', whereas an algorithm using 'different
mathematically-related keys for encryption and decryption' is an "asymmetric
algorithm".

Since the definition differentiates algorithms by symmetry rather than by
their cryptographic properties, there is no restriction whatsoever on
asymmetric secret-key encryption algorithms. Those algorithms typically
are not based on factorization or discrete logarithms. That is, they are
no longer controlled by the Wassenaar arrangement.

Better yet, mass-market crypto systems are not controlled if they
'do not contain a "symmetric algorithm" employing a key length exceeding
64 bits'. So you can use, say, 2048 bit RSA with an asymmetric secret-key
algorithm of 128 bit key length (so the system does not contain a symmetric
algorithm), and you're free to export it.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Igor Chudov 
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 16:25:31 +0800
To: cypherpunks-outgoing@video-collage.com
Subject: test2
Message-ID: <199812110738.CAA28223@mail.video-collage.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


test




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Igor Chudov 
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 22:13:54 +0800
To: cypherpunks@video-collage.com
Subject: test4
Message-ID: <199812111331.IAA12442@mail.video-collage.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



test4




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Igor Chudov 
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 22:17:39 +0800
To: cypherpunks@video-collage.com
Subject: test4
Message-ID: <199812111337.IAA13010@mail.video-collage.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



test4




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Wilson, Jamie (J.R.)" 
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 22:23:28 +0800
To: "'cypherpunks@toad.com>
Subject: RE: Postcard Debates
Message-ID: <199812111341.IAA15146@mailfw1.ford.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



If everyone just encrypted their messages then no suspicions would be raised
regarding the use of encryption.  Most people use envelopes, plain and
simple -- and as a result no one questions what they are hiding.  It's
understood that mail is private and therefore people have a right to seal it
in an envelope and not worry about people tampering with it.  On the same
note, there are federal regulations and penalties (in the U.S. anyway) for
tampering with mail and interrupting the delivery of it.  The same laws
should apply to email.

____________________________________________________
Jamie R. Wilson                     



-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Wenzler [mailto:rwenzler@usachoice.com]
Sent: Thursday, 10 December, 1998 13:56
To: Mbishop645@aol.com
Cc: maven@weirdness.com; hab@gamegirlz.com; Cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: 




Mbishop645@aol.com wrote:
> 
> >HaB wrote:
> >
> >>     That's a good place to begin, though.  "Would you send a letter to
> >> someone without an envelope?"  "Then why not put your email in the
> >> electronic equivalent of one?"
> >>
> >> balance.
> >
> >Would I send a letter to someone without an envelope?
> >One word: postcard.
> 
> Ahh, but would you tape a check for your phone bill to a postcard? Other
> than writing a greeting to someone what else do you use a postcard for?

No, I would not tape a phone bill check to a postcard. There is the 
chance for it to fall off.

There is different methods of sending mail for different levels of
security and functionality. Some people make it obvious what is inside
an envelope. (who would not recognize a Christmas card from the
envelope?) Others make it as bland and normal as possible to
have it go by without much notice.

It all depends on how secure you want it. Some things you can do
with what amounts to postcard security.

What amount of security do you want for your email? Would you be
willing to do something extra for that security?

This type of question is up to each person. How much risk is the
person willing to take. Each person has the responsibility to
understand what the risks are and to decide what risks they are
willing to take.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 22:50:03 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: alternative b-money creation
In-Reply-To: <19981210190344.A20157@eskimo.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I have to agree with Bill here.

It's kind of hard to call something "money" if you can't exchange it for
other things which also call themselves "money".

;-).

Cheers,
Robert Hettinga
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 02:13:32 +0800
To: users@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (SSZ User Mail List)
Subject: SSZ had ISDN problems this AM...
Message-ID: <199812111710.LAA29487@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text




Hi,

Because of the weather change here there was an outage of ISDN
connectivity at my ISP. It seems to be back now. No idea if it will return
in the next day or so.


    ____________________________________________________________________

          What raises the standard of living may well diminish the
          quality of life.

                                                 The Club of Rome

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 02:45:38 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Bruce Taylor ed -Reply
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Mime-Version: 1.0
Date:         Fri, 11 Dec 1998 11:44:05 -0500
Reply-To: Law & Policy of Computer Communications
              
Sender: Law & Policy of Computer Communications
              
From: Dan L Burk 
Subject:      Bruce Taylor ed -Reply
To: CYBERIA-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM

>>> Filtering Facts  12/10/98 07:58pm >>>

>How is it that you guys all missed the ed. by Bruce Taylor in USA Today
>last week?  Especially since it contained a plug for me. ;->

Sorry, I probably filtered it out.  I've had "Bruce Taylor" in my mental
bozofilter ever since he used to work for Charles Keating.  The only thing
that's changed since then is that (so far as I know) Bruce no longer
relies on pilfered S&L funds for his crusades.

Now how's that for a filtering fact?

----------------------------
Dan L. Burk
Seton Hall University
burkdanl@shu.edu
----------------------------

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Brown, R Ken" 
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 03:14:58 +0800
To: "Brown, R Ken" 
Subject: Mornington Crescent Explained (was RE: Global Strike to protest Wassenaar)
Message-ID: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F861B@MSX11002>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> Ben[SMTP:ben@edelweb.fr] wrote, in reply to me replying to Richard Bragg:
> 
>> >  Ever played Mornington Crescent?  Try the same thing with
>> >  e-mail.   The idea is that only those in the game know "the rules".
>> >  These rules can change at any time in any way and all
>> >  "real players" can tell about the new "rules" and adjust accordingly.
>> 
>> showing of course that he either doesn't know the *real*  rules of
>> Mornington Crescent or else (more likely) doesn't want to reveal them!
Oh,
>> and this posting quite clearly wins this round - even with the new DLR
>> extensions and the Elverson Road footbridge:-)  

>Ok Ken--you didn't get 'Soccer Moms', now us Yanks don't get 'Mornington 
>Crescent'.  You want to explain to the list?

Well, you *did* ask. Don't blame me. 

It is summed up well at:
http://vortex.hawo.stw.uni-erlangen.de/~asheiduk/pgg/06S/06S008.html

or, more prosaically, at:
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/6270/ed_morning.htm

Straight from the horse's mouth:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/newsid_79000/79273.stm

A transcript of an actual game can be found at:
http://www.lazarus.demon.co.uk/mc/mc100.html - he also has many other links
at: http://www.lazarus.demon.co.uk/mc/mc.html

The Encyclopaedia Morningtonia has more detail than anyone in their right
brain would want to know about the game  at:
http://aurora.york.ac.uk/mc_em.html

Here are the rules of a slightly different game that Richard may have been
thinking of:
http://members.xoom.com/mornomic/ruleset.html and
http://www.cms.dmu.ac.uk/~c94kd/mornomic/ruleset.txt


Ken 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mike Gorsuch 
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 04:00:47 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Linux Encrypted File Sytem
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Hey guys,

I'm hoping that you guys can point me in the right direction.  I have become
very interested in the idea of an encrypted file system, rather than encrypting
individual files.  I read an article in the Linux Journal that talked about how
to give Linux the support.  Well, first I had to get the source for an older
kernel, 2.0.30, and use the patches.  It patched and compiled fine. Next I was
supposed to patch mount.  The problem I am facing is that the mount source will
not take the patch right.  

If anyone can help me on these two issues I would be very happy:

1) What source version of mount do I need to use?

2) Is there a way to get kernel 2.0.35 or later to use this support?

Mike


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The Darkest Hour is Always Just Before Dawn..."

Mike Gorsuch
aka Wulfgang
ICQ UIN 670820
email: mikeg@soonernet.com
Web Page: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Rampart/6071
------------------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Aladdin Customer Service 
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 06:07:06 +0800
To: Cypher Punks 
Subject: Thank you for downloading DropStuff
Message-ID: <199812112113.NAA14027@opal.he.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Dear Cypher Punks,

Thank you for downloading Aladdin
DropStuff with Expander Enhancer 4.5. 
(If you had any problems downloading the
software, please contact Aladdin Customer 
Service by sending an email to 
service@aladdinsys.com.)


As you know, DropStuff is shareware, 
and you may try the software out for up 
to 15 days with no obligation. After
that, please register DropStuff 4.5 by 
using our onlineregistration form, 
available on the Aladdin web site at:

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At Aladdin, we believe in maintaining a 
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What you think about us and our products 
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When you become a registered user of 
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we'll notify you of upgrades, special 
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We hope you enjoy using your new copy of 
DropStuff with Expander Enhancer 4.5.

Thank you,

Marty McGillivray
Product Manager
The StuffIt Family of Products
Aladdin Systems, Inc.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: netcenter-reg@netscape.com (Netcenter Registration)
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 07:08:42 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Your Postal Code
Message-ID: <199812112139.NAA08898@ureg3.netscape.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Dear Monica Lewinsky,

You have received this email because you had requested Netcenter to 
mail you the postalcode used in your Netcenter registration. 

We have your postalcode as: "90024"

You can use this postal code to obtain your password or username. 
If it is not your correct postal code, please update it (and
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Netcenter Registration






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: netcenter-reg@netscape.com (Netcenter Registration)
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 07:34:28 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: NETCENTER uid=cpunksusa key=cnO6Eb3peBen CONFIRM!
Message-ID: <199812112143.NAA09119@ureg3.netscape.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/html


 

Dear Monica Lewinsky, 

Welcome to Netcenter! In order to gain full access to Netcenter
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: netcenter-reg@netscape.com (Netcenter Registration)
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 07:16:43 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Netcenter member information
Message-ID: <199812112143.NAA07661@ureg2.netscape.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Dear Monica Lewinsky,

You have received this email because you had requested a new Netcenter 
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 05:00:10 +0800
To: mikeg@soonernet.com
Subject: Re: Linux Encrypted File Sytem
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199812111945.NAA16936@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Did you try CFS? It does not require any patches to the kernel or 
the mount program.

igor

Mike Gorsuch wrote:
> 
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
> I'm hoping that you guys can point me in the right direction.  I have become
> very interested in the idea of an encrypted file system, rather than encrypting
> individual files.  I read an article in the Linux Journal that talked about how
> to give Linux the support.  Well, first I had to get the source for an older
> kernel, 2.0.30, and use the patches.  It patched and compiled fine. Next I was
> supposed to patch mount.  The problem I am facing is that the mount source will
> not take the patch right.  
> 
> If anyone can help me on these two issues I would be very happy:
> 
> 1) What source version of mount do I need to use?
> 
> 2) Is there a way to get kernel 2.0.35 or later to use this support?
> 
> Mike
> 
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> "The Darkest Hour is Always Just Before Dawn..."
> 
> Mike Gorsuch
> aka Wulfgang
> ICQ UIN 670820
> email: mikeg@soonernet.com
> Web Page: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Rampart/6071
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 



	- Igor.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: netcenter-reg@netscape.com (Netcenter Registration)
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 06:47:11 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Welcome to Netcenter
Message-ID: <199812112147.NAA04962@ureg1.netscape.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Dear Monica Lewinsky,

Welcome to NETSCAPE NETCENTER, where you can
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Wei Dai 
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 07:18:34 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: alternative b-money creation
In-Reply-To: <199812060008.AAA27126@server.eternity.org>
Message-ID: <19981211135656.A13424@eskimo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Fri, Dec 11, 1998 at 02:27:10AM -0800, bill.stewart@pobox.com wrote:
> It still doesn't solve the fundamental problem with the b-money idea,
> which is that there's no reason anybody should want to accept it,
> any more than they should want to accept dead-president fiat paper money.
> It fixes some symptoms of fiat money, but not the fundamental problem,
> because it's still fiat money, just with mathematically interesting 
> artwork printed on the front.

This argument is based on the misconception that people have no reason to
want to accept fiat money. But actually fiat money is valuable because it
performs a service for those who use it, namely the service of a medium of
exchange. It's value derives from the fact that there is positive demand
for a medium of exchange, and the fact that its supply is finite and
controlled by a sufficiently benevolent agency.

Think about it this way. In the case of commodity money, its value comes
partly from the industrial/aesthetic value of the commodity and partly
from the usefulness of the commodity money as a medium of exchange. In the
case of fiat money and b-money, all of its value comes from its usefulness
as a medium of exchange.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: joel boutros 
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 07:53:06 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Linux Encrypted File Sytem
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <19981211150128.A9434@layer8.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Fri, Dec 11, 1998 at 01:45:55PM -0600, Igor Chudov @ home wrote:
> Did you try CFS? It does not require any patches to the kernel or 
> the mount program.

CFS encrypts files and directory names individually, rather than
filesystems as a whole, allowing the user to infer directory structure
by examining the encrypted store.  It also does really badly if you
expect to use it with more than one user.

In addition, the documentation (last I looked) pretty clearly says
not to use it in a multiuser environment.

TCFS makes extensions upon CFS.  I don't know how well it does, though,
or whether it fixes the problems listed above.  I've only heard it
described in the context of a suggested alternative.

There are apparently several others, whose names I don't know,
unfortunately.  I've not looked at them.

- joel "No real content, just a comment or two"

> 
> igor
> 
> Mike Gorsuch wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > Hey guys,
> > 
> > I'm hoping that you guys can point me in the right direction.  I have become
> > very interested in the idea of an encrypted file system, rather than encrypting
> > individual files.  I read an article in the Linux Journal that talked about how
> > to give Linux the support.  Well, first I had to get the source for an older
> > kernel, 2.0.30, and use the patches.  It patched and compiled fine. Next I was
> > supposed to patch mount.  The problem I am facing is that the mount source will
> > not take the patch right.  
> > 
> > If anyone can help me on these two issues I would be very happy:
> > 
> > 1) What source version of mount do I need to use?
> > 
> > 2) Is there a way to get kernel 2.0.35 or later to use this support?
> > 
> > Mike
> > 
> > 
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > "The Darkest Hour is Always Just Before Dawn..."
> > 
> > Mike Gorsuch
> > aka Wulfgang
> > ICQ UIN 670820
> > email: mikeg@soonernet.com
> > Web Page: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Rampart/6071
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 	- Igor.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: netcenter-reg@netscape.com (Netcenter Registration)
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 08:09:55 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Netcenter member information
Message-ID: <199812112304.PAA13597@ureg3.netscape.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Dear Monica Lewinsky,

You have received this email because you had requested a new Netcenter 
password. In order to protect your account, we urge you to change your 
password after you login using the password specified below.

    username=cpunksusa
    password=shyfire551

To change your password, visit the Netcenter Member Center at the 
following location: 

    http://home.netscape.com/netcenter/membercenter.html

You may be asked to sign in, and then to log in using the password above.
Then just click on the "password" link in the left column, and follow the
instructions to change your password. When you're done, click the "update"
button, and you can start using your new password right away.

Thanks, 
  
Netcenter Registration






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: netcenter-reg@netscape.com (Netcenter Registration)
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 08:41:34 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: NETCENTER uid=cpunksusa key=cnO6Eb3peBen CONFIRM!
Message-ID: <199812112324.PAA14737@ureg3.netscape.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/html


 

Dear Monica Lewinsky, 

Welcome to Netcenter! In order to gain full access to Netcenter
member services, please CONFIRM that this is your correct email
address by replying to this message within 48 hours.

You can reply by:

1. Clicking Reply and Send to return this email to Netcenter
               
      OR

2. If you CAN YOU SEE THE IMAGE BELOW, just click on the image to
   confirm your account.




If you did not request this account, do not respond. Simply delete
this message from your mailbox. If you do not respond, your account
will not be activated. 


Thank You! 

Netcenter Registration 











From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: netcenter-reg@netscape.com (Netcenter Registration)
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 08:55:23 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Welcome to Netcenter
Message-ID: <199812112325.PAA14865@ureg3.netscape.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/html

Title: Welcome to Netscape Netcenter















 
 
 



Netsearch 

|  Webmail   |   Personalize  

|   Member Directory 

  






Dear Monica Lewinsky, 


Welcome to Netscape Netcenter, where you can access all the Internet services you need in one convenient location.  With your FREE enrollment in Netscape Netcenter, you're joining millions of others who've already discovered the Internet's best resource for software, content, commerce, and community.   
 

YOUR FREE EMAIL
ACCOUNT  
As a bonus, we have automatically
reserved for you your own private Netscape WebMail account:  
Netscape WebMail accounts, provided
free to all Netcenter members, are accessible from any computer with internet
access. Click
here to activate your WebMail account.  

IMPORTANT MEMBERSHIP
INFORMATION  
Each time you visit us at Netscape
Netcenter, you may need to enter your user name and password.  Please
keep a copy of this information in a safe place for future reference. 
You now can access Netscape Netcenter from anywhere you have an Internet
connection.  
Your User Name is: cpunksusa 



BEST OF THE NET 
With your Netscape Netcenter
membership, you'll be able to take advantage of a broad variety of
business and consumer channels like news, sports and personal finance;
outstanding products from leading companies such as Music Boulevard, Travelocity,
Amazon.com, and FTD; and integrated services like personalization to give
you the information you want, when you want it.  

And, there's more! We'll send
you a periodic email newsletter featuring all the latest information
on the specials, services and products available to you. It will
keep you informed of the frequent updates and new services being added to Netcenter. 

Thank you for becoming a member
of Netscape Netcenter, your home on the Net.

http://home.netscape.com/netcenter  

The Netcenter Team 
Netscape respects your online time and Internet privacy. This welcome letter is a one-time only mailing. If you would like to subscribe or unsubscribe to other Netscape or partner mailings, please visit our In-Box Direct service. 
Copyright
(c) 1998. Netscape Communications
Corporation. All rights reserved. 



 














From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mike Gorsuch 
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 06:55:33 +0800
To: (Igor Chudov @ home) 
Subject: Re: Linux Encrypted File Sytem
In-Reply-To: <199812111945.NAA16936@manifold.algebra.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Thanks!  I appreciate the quick response.  Where can I get CFS?

Mike

On 11-Dec-98 Igor Chudov @ home wrote:
> Did you try CFS? It does not require any patches to the kernel or 
> the mount program.
> 
> igor
> 
> Mike Gorsuch wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Hey guys,
>> 
>> I'm hoping that you guys can point me in the right direction.  I have become
>> very interested in the idea of an encrypted file system, rather than
>> encrypting
>> individual files.  I read an article in the Linux Journal that talked about
>> how
>> to give Linux the support.  Well, first I had to get the source for an older
>> kernel, 2.0.30, and use the patches.  It patched and compiled fine. Next I
>> was
>> supposed to patch mount.  The problem I am facing is that the mount source
>> will
>> not take the patch right.  
>> 
>> If anyone can help me on these two issues I would be very happy:
>> 
>> 1) What source version of mount do I need to use?
>> 
>> 2) Is there a way to get kernel 2.0.35 or later to use this support?
>> 
>> Mike
>> 
>> 
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> "The Darkest Hour is Always Just Before Dawn..."
>> 
>> Mike Gorsuch
>> aka Wulfgang
>> ICQ UIN 670820
>> email: mikeg@soonernet.com
>> Web Page: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Rampart/6071
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -
>> 
> 
> 
> 
>       - Igor.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The Darkest Hour is Always Just Before Dawn..."

Mike Gorsuch
aka Wulfgang
ICQ UIN 670820
email: mikeg@soonernet.com
Web Page: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Rampart/6071
------------------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 07:13:11 +0800
To: mikeg@soonernet.com
Subject: Re: Linux Encrypted File Sytem
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199812112154.PAA19547@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Ask Matt Blaze, cfs@research.att.com

igor

Mike Gorsuch wrote:
> 
> Thanks!  I appreciate the quick response.  Where can I get CFS?
> 
> Mike
> 
> On 11-Dec-98 Igor Chudov @ home wrote:
> > Did you try CFS? It does not require any patches to the kernel or 
> > the mount program.
> > 
> > igor
> > 
> > Mike Gorsuch wrote:
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Hey guys,
> >> 
> >> I'm hoping that you guys can point me in the right direction.  I have become
> >> very interested in the idea of an encrypted file system, rather than
> >> encrypting
> >> individual files.  I read an article in the Linux Journal that talked about
> >> how
> >> to give Linux the support.  Well, first I had to get the source for an older
> >> kernel, 2.0.30, and use the patches.  It patched and compiled fine. Next I
> >> was
> >> supposed to patch mount.  The problem I am facing is that the mount source
> >> will
> >> not take the patch right.  
> >> 
> >> If anyone can help me on these two issues I would be very happy:
> >> 
> >> 1) What source version of mount do I need to use?
> >> 
> >> 2) Is there a way to get kernel 2.0.35 or later to use this support?
> >> 
> >> Mike
> >> 
> >> 
> >> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> "The Darkest Hour is Always Just Before Dawn..."
> >> 
> >> Mike Gorsuch
> >> aka Wulfgang
> >> ICQ UIN 670820
> >> email: mikeg@soonernet.com
> >> Web Page: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Rampart/6071
> >> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> -
> >> 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >       - Igor.
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> "The Darkest Hour is Always Just Before Dawn..."
> 
> Mike Gorsuch
> aka Wulfgang
> ICQ UIN 670820
> email: mikeg@soonernet.com
> Web Page: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Rampart/6071
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 



	- Igor.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 09:14:57 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: alternative b-money creation
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981211022710.008c0100@idiom.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 1:56 PM -0800 12/11/98, Wei Dai wrote:
...
>
>This argument is based on the misconception that people have no reason to
>want to accept fiat money. But actually fiat money is valuable because it
>performs a service for those who use it, namely the service of a medium of
>exchange. It's value derives from the fact that there is positive demand
>for a medium of exchange, and the fact that its supply is finite and
>controlled by a sufficiently benevolent agency.
>
>Think about it this way. In the case of commodity money, its value comes
>partly from the industrial/aesthetic value of the commodity and partly
>from the usefulness of the commodity money as a medium of exchange. In the
>case of fiat money and b-money, all of its value comes from its usefulness
>as a medium of exchange.

I believe _all_ forms of money, whether hard, fiat, whatever, come from the
expectation that the money will be of the same value, more or less, in the
future.

Call it the "greater fool theory of money." All one cares about is that a
greater fool will take the money.

Whether the money is gold or funny bank notes or e-money, the Bayesian
expectation of future value is what matters. Discounted appropriately for
interest paid, etc. (Thus, one might be willing to be paid in gold coins or
in E-Bay LEAPs, provided the terms were laid-out and could be calculated.)

As always, reputation is critical.  Repution = Belief = Expectation.

--Tim May



Y2K -- LMGALMAO -- Loading my guns and laughing my ass off
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Wei Dai 
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 09:37:58 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: alternative b-money creation
In-Reply-To: <19981211135656.A13424@eskimo.com>
Message-ID: <19981211162940.C22476@eskimo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Fri, Dec 11, 1998 at 06:48:05PM -0400, Ian Grigg wrote:
> It is true that there is positive demand for a medium of
> exchange.
> 
> It is not true that fiat money is controlled by a
> sufficiently benevolent agency, and it is patently
> not true that there is a finite supply.

What I meant is that the current supply of money (i.e. the total amount of
money in circulation) is finite, not that it can't increase in the future.
And by sufficiently benevolent, I mean people do not expect the government
to print so much money that it becomes totally worthless, at least not in
the short term.

I'm not trying to defend fiat money. After all I proposed b-money as an
alternative exactly because fiat money does have serious problems. But
having no reason for people to accept it is not one of them. 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Wilson, Jamie (J.R.)" 
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 06:51:47 +0800
To: "'cypherpunks@toad.com>
Subject: RE: Postcard Debates
Message-ID: <199812112135.QAA13074@mailfw2.ford.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Back to a previous question: how do we get the public to understand the
concept of an "electronic envelope", the ACLU has created a PDF file that
prints to a brochure format explaining encryption on a level that even the
novice of users can understand.  It is available at
http://www.aclu.org/action/tools/crypto.pdf.

____________________________________________________
Jamie R. Wilson                     




-----Original Message-----
From: Joel O'Connor [mailto:ogrenivek@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, 11 December, 1998 12:47
To: Wilson, Jamie (J.R.)
Cc: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: RE: Postcard Debates


Deep. . .mad deep.  I completely agree, does anyone know of any such
laws regarding e-mail?




---"Wilson, Jamie (J.R.)"  wrote:
>
> If everyone just encrypted their messages then no suspicions would
be raised
> regarding the use of encryption.  Most people use envelopes, plain and
> simple -- and as a result no one questions what they are hiding.  It's
> understood that mail is private and therefore people have a right to
seal it
> in an envelope and not worry about people tampering with it.  On the
same
> note, there are federal regulations and penalties (in the U.S.
anyway) for
> tampering with mail and interrupting the delivery of it.  The same
laws
> should apply to email.
> 
> ____________________________________________________
> Jamie R. Wilson                     
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robert Wenzler [mailto:rwenzler@usachoice.com]
> Sent: Thursday, 10 December, 1998 13:56
> To: Mbishop645@aol.com
> Cc: maven@weirdness.com; hab@gamegirlz.com; Cypherpunks@toad.com
> Subject: Re: 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mbishop645@aol.com wrote:
> > 
> > >HaB wrote:
> > >
> > >>     That's a good place to begin, though.  "Would you send a
letter to
> > >> someone without an envelope?"  "Then why not put your email in
the
> > >> electronic equivalent of one?"
> > >>
> > >> balance.
> > >
> > >Would I send a letter to someone without an envelope?
> > >One word: postcard.
> > 
> > Ahh, but would you tape a check for your phone bill to a postcard?
Other
> > than writing a greeting to someone what else do you use a postcard
for?
> 
> No, I would not tape a phone bill check to a postcard. There is the 
> chance for it to fall off.
> 
> There is different methods of sending mail for different levels of
> security and functionality. Some people make it obvious what is inside
> an envelope. (who would not recognize a Christmas card from the
> envelope?) Others make it as bland and normal as possible to
> have it go by without much notice.
> 
> It all depends on how secure you want it. Some things you can do
> with what amounts to postcard security.
> 
> What amount of security do you want for your email? Would you be
> willing to do something extra for that security?
> 
> This type of question is up to each person. How much risk is the
> person willing to take. Each person has the responsibility to
> understand what the risks are and to decide what risks they are
> willing to take.
> 

==
Ogre bounces like sonar. . .Peace.
                  Ogre

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mok-Kong Shen 
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 01:22:04 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Test
Message-ID: <36714505.B04FB3DF@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



please ignore this.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 08:18:52 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: German government press release on Wassenaar (fwd)
Message-ID: <199812112328.RAA31629@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 22:50:04 +0100
> From: Alexander Kjeldaas 
> Subject: Re: German government press release on Wassenaar

> I applied for an examination of the Open Source definition to the
> department for foreign affairs in Norway.  The response (no surprise)
> was that Open Source is compliant with what the Wassenaar-agreement
> calls "public domain" software.

Actualy that is surprising since Open Sourse does not imply the loss of
rights by the author as public domain does.

If this is so and Germany interprets Open Source in this way then the OS
movement will fail in Germany (at least). There will be no motive for
authors to release their work since they will be in effect releasing all
rights to it, not the goal of OS at all. The impact on this for closed source
derivitive products is also of some interest.

I wonder what RMS will have to say on that one...


    ____________________________________________________________________

          What raises the standard of living may well diminish the
          quality of life.

                                                 The Club of Rome

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: The Sheriff 
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 01:34:24 +0800
To: "William H. Geiger III" 
Subject: Re: Global Strike to protest Wassenaar
In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19981210163644.0088ec30@max-web.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>>Not only will Maximum Web Design (www.max-web.com) not be operating on
>>December 14, I have plenty of bandwith for a page with all the
>>participants. Would be happy to maintain it too...
>
>>Please e-mail me. anti-wassenaar@max-web.com
>
>>Only serious requests -=WITH A URL=- will be accepted.
>>Will post the address to the list asap.
>
>The domain of openpgp.net will be down in protest on the 14th. Perhaps
>someone could design a common webpage that we all could use outlining why
>our sites are down.

If some of y'all out there would go ahead and post some of your
reasons for "striking," I'll be more than happy to air it on my
web page.  Try to post these to the list [ATTN: Sheriff] by
the 12th, or the 13th at the latest.  All such posts will be
slapped up on my web page, at the URL mentioned in my sig.  Cheers.

Love, luck, and marijuana lollipops,
The Sheriff. -- ******
---   **** New, SHORTER sig!  See below! ****
*********************************************************
***                 Questions?                        ***
*** Finger sheriff@speakeasy.org for RSA key and ICQ. ***
***                                                   ***
***           Haven't seen my web site?               ***
*** http://www.speakeasy.org/~sheriff/DISCLAIMER.html ***
*********************************************************





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Antonomasia 
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 02:48:24 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: angel 0.5 released
Message-ID: <199812111811.SAA04005@notatla.demon.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




My website (software page) should have angel 0.5 on it at around
midnight (GMT).  This is a mail transfer agent intended to operate
well with remailers.

Progress since the last release is taking the DH key authentication to
a different program so that the RSA secion when added will not be in the
main server (angeld).  RSA authentication of the DH key is still to be added.


--
##############################################################
# Antonomasia   ant@notatla.demon.co.uk                      #
# See http://www.notatla.demon.co.uk/                        #
##############################################################




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 02:44:28 +0800
To: dbs@philodox.com
Subject: Re: alternative b-money creation
Message-ID: <199812111722.SAA29143@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Bill Stewart writes, regarding Wei Dai's b-money protocol:

> It still doesn't solve the fundamental problem with the b-money idea,
> which is that there's no reason anybody should want to accept it,
> any more than they should want to accept dead-president fiat paper money.
> It fixes some symptoms of fiat money, but not the fundamental problem,
> because it's still fiat money, just with mathematically interesting 
> artwork printed on the front.

B-money is not fiat money.  It is better to think of it as commodity
money.  Unlike most commodity money, in this case the commodity is not
intrinsically valuable.  However it is scarce, and more can be created
only at a considerable cost.  An analogy might be money based on a rare
earth element like Terbium (which, let's suppose, has no industrial uses).
Terbium based money would be immune to inflation, like gold backed money,
but the element is not valuable in itself; it is only valuable for its
role as money.

This leads to an important difference between b-money and fiat money.
The value of b-money is not set by fiat.  The value is determined
automatically by the workings of the market and the workings of the
protocol.

There is no centralized agency to make b-money legal tender, or to set
its value in terms of other currencies.  Most importantly, there is no
agency which can issue new b-money, inflating and devaluing the currency.

Money is a store of value and a medium of exchange.  B-money is admirably
suited for these purposes, much better than fiat money.  The quantity of
b-money in a mature system is, roughly speaking, constant.  (The quantity
may grow, but it will do so slowly, based on the increased demand for
b-money.)  B-money is an investment which will hold its value.  Because
it can be exchanged electronically, it is much more flexible as a medium
of exchange than existing forms of money.

> One of the big problems with fiat money is that someone who
> can get other people to trade it for real goods has an
> incentive to print lots of it and acquire a very large share
> of the real goods in the economy, leaving the rest of the people
> with unredeemable artwork and only able to get their share
> of goods by giving the fiatmeister labor or other real goods.
> 
> Wei Dai's b-money proposals reduce the incentive to create
> lots of b-money by requiring the creator to burn lots of
> valuable CPU time to create the mathematical artwork on the notes,

Think of this CPU-burning as the effort to mint or mine new b-money.
Like other commodity based money, and unlike fiat money, b-money cannot
be printed.  New b-money can only be added to the money supply by virtue
of expending work.  This is what insures that there is no inflation.

> In some ways, it's even _worse_ than traditional fiat money,
> because creating it uses up CPU time that could otherwise be
> calculating things that have value for the rest of the economy,
> like optimizing airline routes or circuit-board designs,
> or less valuable cool things like rendering bug pictures for movies
> or calculating the next Mersenne prime or cracking MongoBank's keys,
> or, well, drawing space-war pictures real fast on your Nintendo.

You could say the same thing about gold mining, in the days when gold
was money.  Most gold went into circulation as coins, not adding beauty
or value to the economy.  Its only utility was as an increase in the money
supply.

But, of course, adding to the money supply is an important contribution.
To have a stable commodity money, it must be costly to create more,
and the cost must be "wasteful" in the sense that it is not compensated
other than by the monetary value of the newly produced money.  Otherwise
you will get excessive inflation.

It's ironic for people to complain that b-money is inferior, in a world
in which fiat money is universal.  Once the mathematics of b-money are
better established and understood, and once the technical issues are
clarified and problems solved, this appears to be a very attractive
alternative to fiat money.  Unlike commodities such as gold, it can be
easily exchanged electronically.  And unlike fiat money, it is immune
to attempts to manipulate the money supply.

B-money could easily attract investment as an inflation-proof store of
value.  This may be enough to initiate the bootstrapping process.  People
can buy b-money as a store of value, and once they hold it they will want
to be able to spend it.  This will lead to a demand for merchants to
accept it, and the process has begun.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 08:19:15 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Hayek Quote of the Week
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Mime-Version: 1.0
X-Sender: rah@pop.sneaker.net
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 17:59:16 -0500
To: Digital Bearer Settlement List 
From: Robert Hettinga 
Subject: Hayek Quote of the Week
Sender: 
Precedence: Bulk
List-Subscribe: 
X-Web-Archive: http://www.philodox.com/dbs-archive/

While we're at it...

Cheers,
Robert Hettinga

--- begin forwarded text


Date:         Fri, 11 Dec 1998 17:19:31 EST
Reply-To: Hayek Related Research 
Sender: Hayek Related Research 
From: Hayek-L List Host 
Subject:      Hayek Quote of the Week
To: HAYEK-L@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU

         Hayek Quote of the Week


" .. history is largely a history of inflation,
and usually of inflations engineered by
governments and for the gain of governments .. "


F. A. Hayek, _Denationalisation of Money: The
Argument Refined_ (third edition)  London: Institute
of Economic Affairs.  1990.  p. 34



Hayek Quote of the Week is a regular feature of the Hayek-L list.



>> END  <<

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Missouri FreeNet Administration 
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 10:12:06 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Wassenaar Discussion...
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I thought the list might be interested to know that we have in fact had
"more than a few" angry emails about being down on the 14th: hit-em where
it hurts, and they *have* to listen, huh?  For the most part, the response
has been favorable, *after* they have been educated as to what is going
on.  These are the same people who, by and large, could care less about
the average "political thing"...

As I said before, I acknowledge that this "strike" takes out it's energy
on those least responsible (directly, anyway), but it *does* seem to wake
them up, since it directly involves them [now]...

Anyone else having similar experiences? (I'm really curious about
openpgp.net)

Yours, 
J.A. Terranson
sysadmin@mfn.org

--
If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they
should give serious consideration towards setting a better example:
Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of
unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in
the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and 
elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire
populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate...
This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States
as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers,
associates, or others.  Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of
those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the
first place...
--------------------------------------------------------------------





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ian Grigg 
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 07:40:48 +0800
To: weidai@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: alternative b-money creation
In-Reply-To: <19981211135656.A13424@eskimo.com>
Message-ID: <199812112248.SAA21792@systemics.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> This argument is based on the misconception that people have no reason to
> want to accept fiat money. But actually fiat money is valuable because it
> performs a service for those who use it, namely the service of a medium of
> exchange. It's value derives from the fact that there is positive demand
> for a medium of exchange, and the fact that its supply is finite and
> controlled by a sufficiently benevolent agency.

It is true that there is positive demand for a medium of
exchange.

It is not true that fiat money is controlled by a
sufficiently benevolent agency, and it is patently
not true that there is a finite supply.

National monies are in effect, and in demand, because
they are mandated by a number of methods.  The us$ was
made the dominant form by punitive taxation of alternates
in the late 1900s.  Other countries like the UK managed
to destroy competitors, and in the course of this, bankrupt
honest note issuers, by subjecting the note issuers to

The notion that the current issuer of that money
is benevolent is easily tested by circulating alternate
monies.  Any casino in the US will tell you that the reason
they won't permit their chips to go outside is because the
feds have quiet words with them.  Disregarding journalistic
fairy tales like Hiawatha Hours (or whatever they were called),
pretty universally, you run the risk of being locked up if
you circulate something called money.

Of course, the Internet has changed all this.  But not as
much as you'd think, I'd lay 10 to 1 that if you started
an issuer of Internet money on the wrong side of the German
border you'd be finding out what bored prison guards talk
about.

The Federal Reserve of the US has said fairly plainly that
you can do this.  But the ABA, FinCen, the FBI, the DEA,
and any other moralistic department of the US government
that wants to get in the act are going to be looking at
this with jaundiced eyes.

The value of any monopolistic product can be simplistically
stated to be driven by supply and demand, but the truth is
different.  Only when there is free issue of money will we
know if a government can compete against the best and brightest
of the profit minded world.  In the past, the answer was a
resounding No, as otherwise, governments would not have had
to resort to legislation, taxes and other arbitrary punishments
in order to win the field.

> Think about it this way. In the case of commodity money, its value comes
> partly from the industrial/aesthetic value of the commodity and partly
> from the usefulness of the commodity money as a medium of exchange. In the
> case of fiat money and b-money, all of its value comes from its usefulness
> as a medium of exchange.

And a government enforced monopoly.  The value of that is
calculated at the seignorage, assuming that we agree that
no government could compete on fair grounds.  That makes
the US monopoly worth $25 Bn per annum.

iang




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mok-Kong Shen 
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 02:56:53 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: 2nd reposting of a response to Jim Choate (on crypto archives)
Message-ID: <36715BFD.8B6EB309@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Note: There was some technical problem since yesterday to cypherpunks
postings, so that my posts to the list didn't result in copies back to 
me. This morning I reposted these, again without success. An hour
ago Igor Chudov informed me that the problem was solved and I have
just verified this with a test message. I am therefore reposting 
once again one of my posts of yesterday here. It is a response to 
Jim Choate. Please ignore it if you have already seen it.

Jim Choate wrote:
> 

> > From: Mok-Kong Shen 
> 
> > We were talking about a site that has to be closed because of (new)
> > crypto laws, not technically down which is seldom with modern hardware.
> > And also you said that money is no problem!
> 
> You need to go back and re-read what prompted this. Your responce is
> completely out of context.
> 
> > Why you care so much about people who voluteer to run sites? They
> > certainly know what kind of risks that they probably face, financial
> > or otherwise. Do you care your neighbour who opens up a new company
> > and do you feel unconditionally have to give him advices?? Are you
> > the one who is cleverer than all the others?
> 
> It depends, do I shop there?
> 
> I'm done with this discussion. You want to expect people to put their neck
> on the line and you use their services while owning them nothing then wonder
> why nobody does it, so be it.

Let me ask you some clear questions and please give me also clear
answers:

If there is some person who is grown up and is not metally ill
and who decides to volunteer to put up an archive site of crypto
software for the benefit of those who need them, what do you have
against that? Any reasonable person who plans to do some business 
(for profit) certainly well considers the possible risks he might
have. For non-profit activities like what we are discussing it is 
clear that one is much more careful before launching the work. Why 
do you want to disuade him from doing that? If he fails, that's his 
fate but you don't loose a cent because of that. If he puts up a 
site and that has to be closed down after a couple of months because 
of unforeseen new crypto laws, you at least profit in that short 
time period of the possibility of downloading from his site and other 
people also profit from that. If his country has poor economy 
(inflation, unemployment etc. leading possibly to early depletion of 
his monetary resources) or bad infrastucture (total breakdown of 
telecommunication of his country, rendering his site no longer 
operable) or religion (because he is physically injured by religious 
fanatics and therefore unable to work), or whatever other reasons
than these three that you mentioned, that's all HIS business not
YOURS. He, being in his own country, should know all such risks much
much better than you! Be happy that because of him you have one 
more possibilty of obtaining your desired software (during the time
his site is operational)! If he ever gets into trouble, it will be 
fine of you if you will try to help him, through raising funds etc. 
But you are not obliged to do that.

So I don't understand the motivation of your arguing up till now. 
I would be able to understand if you were working in an authority 
attempting to strengthen the effects of crypto laws, thus wishing 
to have as few archive sites in the world as possible, at best none. 
(Of course, I know absolutely nothing of you. Should I happen to 
have made here a wrong assumption about your occupation, then I like 
to offer my sincere apology.)

M. K. Shen




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mok-Kong Shen 
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 03:13:10 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: 2nd reposting of a response to Enzo Michelangeli (on crypto archives)
Message-ID: <36715D15.D0C67C2D@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Note: There was some technical problem since yesterday to cypherpunks
postings, so that my posts to the list didn't result in copies back to 
me. This morning I reposted these, again without success. An hour
ago Igor Chudov informed me that the problem was solved and I have
just verified this with a test message. I am therefore reposting 
once again one of my posts of yesterday here (not exactly identical
to the original, being reconstructed from memory). It is a response 
to Enzo Michelangeli. Please ignore it if you have already seen it.

Enzo Michelangeli wrote:
 
> It would be helpful if the list included the approximate size in Mb of each
> archive. I'm making arrangements for some mirrors here in Hong Kong, and I
> need an estimate of the space needed.

I don't know. But a number of years ago I accessed some archive sites 
of software for processing of Asian languages. From that and the
fact that modern disks have become much bigger in capacity and cheaper,
I suppose that storage shouldn't be a bottleneck.

I like to take the opportunity to mention a non-trivial issue that
happens to have refreshed my attention by a reader's letter in a
computer journal, namely that software at public archives could be
infected by virus. I suppose one should give this potential risk
some consideration, since in the present context there could be
some third party particularly interested in disrupting the goals
of crypto archives.

Another point I like to raise is what to archive, i.e. whether only
program texts (which are small) or also executable files, and how
to let the archive contents be up-to-date. Related to this is
whether the archive owner has to fetch everything himself or there is
also a directory for uploading by contributors (this is the case
with the archives I mentioned above and is sensible for new software
and for updates.)

M. K. Shen




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Wenzler 
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 08:57:26 +0800
To: "'cypherpunks@toad.com>
Subject: Re: Postcard Debates
In-Reply-To: <199812111341.IAA15146@mailfw1.ford.com>
Message-ID: <3671B447.16498817@usachoice.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





"Wilson, Jamie (J.R.)" wrote:
> 
> If everyone just encrypted their messages then no suspicions would be raised
> regarding the use of encryption.  Most people use envelopes, plain and
> simple -- and as a result no one questions what they are hiding.  It's
> understood that mail is private and therefore people have a right to seal it
> in an envelope and not worry about people tampering with it.  On the same
> note, there are federal regulations and penalties (in the U.S. anyway) for
> tampering with mail and interrupting the delivery of it.  The same laws
> should apply to email.

Right. If everyone used encryption, there would not as much public
debate about it.

For now, it is not commonly used and viewed as secrative.

Now for a general question to all that may read this: How much are
you willing to do something to change the laws?
However much people are willing to stick up for this issue is the
amount things could change.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Wenzler 
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 11:05:46 +0800
To: "'cypherpunks@toad.com>
Subject: Re: Postcard Debates
In-Reply-To: <199812112135.QAA13074@mailfw2.ford.com>
Message-ID: <3671C566.58034F05@usachoice.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





"Wilson, Jamie (J.R.)" wrote:
> 
> Back to a previous question: how do we get the public to understand the
> concept of an "electronic envelope", the ACLU has created a PDF file that
> prints to a brochure format explaining encryption on a level that even the
> novice of users can understand.  It is available at
> http://www.aclu.org/action/tools/crypto.pdf.

Getting that concept across is a slow process. People will want to
stay with what they are familiar with. Right now, I do not know how
to familiarize people to accept an electronic envelope.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 11:06:25 +0800
To: Reeza! 
Subject: Re: PGP Inc has gone to the dogs
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981212031015.00a74d90@205.83.192.13>
Message-ID: <199812120127.UAA005.88@whgiii>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

In <3.0.5.32.19981212031015.00a74d90@205.83.192.13>, on 12/12/98 
   at 03:10 AM, Reeza!  said:

>Cleaning out the dross, I found this.

>What was "broken" in pgp50?


In doing my port of 5.0 to OS/2 I found and patched a couple of minor bugs
in pgp, none of them security related. I don't know what Adam is refering
to as "broken" except perhaps the change in the commandline so 5.0 doesn't
work with 2.6.x scripts & plugins.



>At 10:16 AM 10/18/98 +0100, Adam Back wrote:
>>
>>PGP Inc has taken leave of it's sense.  Masses of untrue claims on web
>>pages (take a look at examples below), no RSA support, no unix
>>versions (other than old broken pgp50).


- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: DOS=HIGH? I knew it was on something...

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0i OS/2 for non-commercial use
Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000
Charset: cp850

wj8DBQE2cbiMlHpjA6A1ypsRApwYAJ9/JOVfvaFqCWH4z9pE8ntBQyn3qwCgj7Uo
GzSrbEYZoWwbGM1u2zJSwHY=
=s57Y
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Alan Olsen 
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 13:45:09 +0800
To: mikeg@soonernet.com
Subject: Re: Linux Encrypted File Sytem
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981211211036.03ec7dd0@clueserver.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 12:41 PM 12/11/98 -0600, Mike Gorsuch wrote:
>
>Hey guys,
>
>I'm hoping that you guys can point me in the right direction.  I have become
>very interested in the idea of an encrypted file system, rather than
encrypting
>individual files.  I read an article in the Linux Journal that talked
about how
>to give Linux the support.  Well, first I had to get the source for an older
>kernel, 2.0.30, and use the patches.  It patched and compiled fine. Next I
was
>supposed to patch mount.  The problem I am facing is that the mount source
will
>not take the patch right.  
>
>If anyone can help me on these two issues I would be very happy:
>
>1) What source version of mount do I need to use?
>
>2) Is there a way to get kernel 2.0.35 or later to use this support?

There is a set of Kernel patches at
ftp://ftp.kerneli.org/pub/linux/kerneli/v2.1/ . Look for the patch-int files.

Note: I have not been able to get these to compile cleanly.  It may take
some work to get them to work right.  (I know of at least one typo in
devices/block/loop_gen.c that prevents it from compiling on the patch for
2.1.131.)

---
|      Bill Clinton - Bringing back the Sixties one Nixon at a time!     |
|"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmermann unites all| Disclaimer:         |
| mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!"  | Ignore the man      |
|                                                  | behind the keyboard.|
|         http://www.ctrl-alt-del.com/~alan/       |alan@ctrl-alt-del.com|




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Alexander Kjeldaas 
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 06:53:31 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Linux Encrypted File Sytem
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <19981211224423.A13974@lucifer.guardian.no>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Fri, Dec 11, 1998 at 12:41:03PM -0600, Mike Gorsuch wrote:
> Hey guys,
> 
> I'm hoping that you guys can point me in the right direction.  I
> have become very interested in the idea of an encrypted file system,
> rather than encrypting individual files.  I read an article in the
> Linux Journal that talked about how to give Linux the support.
> Well, first I had to get the source for an older kernel, 2.0.30, and
> use the patches.  It patched and compiled fine. Next I was supposed
> to patch mount.  The problem I am facing is that the mount source
> will not take the patch right.

I'm maintaining the international kernel patch for Linux which aims to
collect all crypto-related features for the Linux kernel in one easy
patch.  This patch is tracking the development version of Linux, not
the stable one.  The patch is available from:

ftp://ftp.kerneli.org/pub/Linux/kerneli/v2.1/

The loopback modules currently supports the following ciphers: serpent
(cbc), mars (cbc), rc6 (cbc), dfc (cbc), blowfish (cbc), cast-128
(ecb), and twofish (cbc).

This code is changing rapidly, so if you feel uneasy about development
versions of the kernel, this might not be for you until it has become
a bit more stable.

> If anyone can help me on these two issues I would be very happy:
> 
> 1) What source version of mount do I need to use?
> 

If you patch linux-2.1.131 (the latest release) with
patch-int-2.1.131.1.gz you can look in the Documentation/crypto
directory for some mount-patches.  However I intend to make a newer
patch with support for more of the cipher algorithms - and against the
latest util-linux.

> 2) Is there a way to get kernel 2.0.35 or later to use this support?
> 

If you want to use the stable kernel, you can look at
ftp://ftp.kerneli.org/pub/Linux/kerneli/net-source/loop/ for a
collection of loop-crypto patches against 2.0.x.

You can also look into tcfs available at 
ftp://ftp.kerneli.org/pub/Linux/kerneli/net-source/tcfs/
This is basically crypto-support for NFS which is more integrated than
CFS (the T in TCFS stands for 'transparent').

astor

-- 
 Alexander Kjeldaas, Guardian Networks AS, Trondheim, Norway
 http://www.guardian.no/




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Alexander Kjeldaas 
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 06:54:11 +0800
To: Ulf Möller 
Message-ID: <19981211225004.B13974@lucifer.guardian.no>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Wed, Dec 09, 1998 at 08:04:00PM +0100, Ulf Möller wrote:
> 
> 2.) The government has acknowledged that public domain software
> remains unrestricted. This also applies to copyrighted software such
> as PGP which "has been made available without restrictions upon its
> further dissemination".

I applied for an examination of the Open Source definition to the
department for foreign affairs in Norway.  The response (no surprise)
was that Open Source is compliant with what the Wassenaar-agreement
calls "public domain" software.

astor

-- 
 Alexander Kjeldaas, Guardian Networks AS, Trondheim, Norway
 http://www.guardian.no/




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ken Williams 
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 14:04:49 +0800
To: Reeza! 
Subject: RE: Postcard Debates
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981212115057.00a85560@205.83.192.13>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Sat, 12 Dec 1998, Reeza! wrote:

>> Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 11:50:57 +1000
>> From: Reeza! 
>> To: "cypherpunks@toad.com" 
>> Subject: RE: Postcard Debates
>> 
>> This would open the door for the USPS to charge for each email sent. 
>> The same rules? No. Based on those rules, but not the same rules.
>> The same rules would slow email down considerably also, wouldn't they???
>> 
>> Reeza!

Funny you should mention the USPS and email.  I was browsing through 
the latest issue of PC WEEK (12-07-98), and noticed the following 
paragraph in Spencer Katt's column "Rumor Central" on page 178 - 

     "A self-proclaimed 'project mis-manager' was chatting with a 
buddy who's done some development work for the U.S. Postal Service.
His pal was talking about a new project in which the USPS will 
accept electronic documents, merge them with a mailing list, print
them at the post office branch closest to the destination of each
document's recipient and deliver them for less than the price of a 
snail mail stamp.  The kicker: Microsoft is considering an add-in
that will put a USPS 'Mail' button in Office 2000 for directly
linking to the service."


it's pure evil.

Regards,

Ken Williams

Packet Storm Security        http://www.Genocide2600.com/~tattooman/
E.H.A.P. Head of Operations  http://www.ehap.org/   ehap@ehap.org
NC State CS Dept  http://www.csc.ncsu.edu/   jkwilli2@unity.ncsu.edu
PGP DSS/DH/RSA Keys          http://www4.ncsu.edu/~jkwilli2/pgpkey/

___________________________________________________________________ 
Get Your Email Sniffed and Decrypted for Free at http://www.nsa.gov




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Reeza! 
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 07:31:04 +0800
To: Adam Back 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981212031015.00a74d90@205.83.192.13>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Cleaning out the dross, I found this.

What was "broken" in pgp50?

Reeza!


At 10:16 AM 10/18/98 +0100, Adam Back wrote:
>
>PGP Inc has taken leave of it's sense.  Masses of untrue claims on web
>pages (take a look at examples below), no RSA support, no unix
>versions (other than old broken pgp50).




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Joel O'Connor" 
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 06:19:21 +0800
To: "Wilson, Jamie \(J.R.\)" 
Subject: RE: Postcard Debates
Message-ID: <19981211174713.26279.rocketmail@send105.yahoomail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Deep. . .mad deep.  I completely agree, does anyone know of any such
laws regarding e-mail?
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP 6.0.2

iQA/AwUBNnFaV1MQ9C083U98EQIkFwCcDqbpZqgR0wehfhGufe8Rqzr8ZKcAoNH8
xVqePuZTtRuBALc2NSfiM3BS
=kkN5
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----





---"Wilson, Jamie (J.R.)"  wrote:
>
> If everyone just encrypted their messages then no suspicions would
be raised
> regarding the use of encryption.  Most people use envelopes, plain and
> simple -- and as a result no one questions what they are hiding.  It's
> understood that mail is private and therefore people have a right to
seal it
> in an envelope and not worry about people tampering with it.  On the
same
> note, there are federal regulations and penalties (in the U.S.
anyway) for
> tampering with mail and interrupting the delivery of it.  The same
laws
> should apply to email.
> 
> ____________________________________________________
> Jamie R. Wilson                     
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robert Wenzler [mailto:rwenzler@usachoice.com]
> Sent: Thursday, 10 December, 1998 13:56
> To: Mbishop645@aol.com
> Cc: maven@weirdness.com; hab@gamegirlz.com; Cypherpunks@toad.com
> Subject: Re: 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mbishop645@aol.com wrote:
> > 
> > >HaB wrote:
> > >
> > >>     That's a good place to begin, though.  "Would you send a
letter to
> > >> someone without an envelope?"  "Then why not put your email in
the
> > >> electronic equivalent of one?"
> > >>
> > >> balance.
> > >
> > >Would I send a letter to someone without an envelope?
> > >One word: postcard.
> > 
> > Ahh, but would you tape a check for your phone bill to a postcard?
Other
> > than writing a greeting to someone what else do you use a postcard
for?
> 
> No, I would not tape a phone bill check to a postcard. There is the 
> chance for it to fall off.
> 
> There is different methods of sending mail for different levels of
> security and functionality. Some people make it obvious what is inside
> an envelope. (who would not recognize a Christmas card from the
> envelope?) Others make it as bland and normal as possible to
> have it go by without much notice.
> 
> It all depends on how secure you want it. Some things you can do
> with what amounts to postcard security.
> 
> What amount of security do you want for your email? Would you be
> willing to do something extra for that security?
> 
> This type of question is up to each person. How much risk is the
> person willing to take. Each person has the responsibility to
> understand what the risks are and to decide what risks they are
> willing to take.
> 

==
Ogre bounces like sonar. . .Peace.
                  Ogre

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: info@save-net.com
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 17:07:13 +0800
Subject: ADV: Save Up To 50% on International Calling
Message-ID: <199812120857.CAA00327@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Homer77497@aol.com
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 19:29:21 +0800
Subject: Publishing Company For Sale
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 16:23:10 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: RE: Postcard Debates
Message-ID: <199812120801.JAA05848@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



postcard not private?  nobody reads them?  just
this last week click and clack (you know, the car
guys on NPR) received a $20 bill in the mail.  no
envelope - just a $20 bill with a stamp and their
address written on the face.  amazing but true. 
source:
http://cartalk.cars.com/Radio/Show/RAfiles/9849/s07.ram
- real audio required.

EnvelopeMonger




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: mib 
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 23:45:49 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: CFS & TCFS (was Re: Linux Encrypted File System)
Message-ID: <19981212092708.C25653@io.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



If you are running Red Hat Linux and want the Cryptographic File System (also
available for most BSD-derived Unix systems and most current Linux releases),
go to http://www.replay.com/redhat/cfs.html                               

If you are running Linux 2.0.X and want the Transparent Cryptographic File
System (improves on Matt Blaze's CFS, they say), go to           
http://vales.uni.net/tcfs/                                              

- d.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 23:54:12 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: German government press release on Wassenaar (fwd)
Message-ID: <199812121546.JAA00764@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 15:33:10 +0100
> From: "Albert P. Franco, II" 
> Subject: Re: German government press release on Wassenaar (fwd)

> I think the key idea which allows Open Source to be exempted is based on
> the availability to all eyes of the technology--not the legal rights
> attached to the software.
> 
> The fact that the knowledge contained in Open Source software is available
> to all is the key. The legal right to use that knowledge is not quite the
> issue. If the knowledge in the software becomes "common knowledge" then
> defining its (illegal) export becomes extremely difficult.

The problem I see with this is that the knowledge about the crypto system
doesn't come from the source but rather from the mathematics that it is
founded upon.

If this line of reasoning is followed to its logical conclusion then
publishing a paper on the algorithm also transmits that knowledge making
particular knowledge of the software (ie whether I used a do-loop instead of
a if statement) rather irrelevant. Now if it's not the particulars of the
implimentation that we're protecting and it's not the mathematics itself
then exactly what is it that we're protecting by imposing these closed
source limitations? It looks to me like an unintentional(?) attempt to put
commercial closed source crypto out of business. Under these regulations
doesn't it mean that any business that isn't OS faces additional hurdles in
its operation? Any business that is OS faces the problem of income stream
which still isn't completely worked out for OS companies. This implies a
longer time to market for OS crypto products.

Also, since the source of PGP has always been avaiable doesn't this now make
it permissible to export without restriction?


    ____________________________________________________________________

          What raises the standard of living may well diminish the
          quality of life.

                                                 The Club of Rome

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 00:58:00 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Echelon, Diana, Wassenaar
Message-ID: <199812121635.LAA05204@smtp0.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



The Wash Post today has picked up the hot European
story of NSA's file on Princess Diana and linked it to
the NSA's Echelon program.

   http://jya.com/nsa-diana.htm

This is the first US major media story on Echelon, and its
connection to privacy invasion of a global celebrity icon 
may do more to get public attention for the vile program
than any previous investigation and report.

NSA claims Diana was not a "target" and that the 1,000 pages
of data on her were gathered "incidental" to other activities. 
But, as with all the TLA snooping, it is this incidental 
surveillance of the innocent that all the calls for loosening of
encrypton controls  is about.

After all the near-futile efforts of investigators to bring 
Echelon out into the open, and counterefforts of pols
and spooks cloak it, the Diana hook may the "Gone
With The Wind" popularizer that finally energizes
a genuine borad-based opposition, and, may very well 
be the kickoff to global demand for encryption to protect 
privacy worldwide and maybe even in the US.

What wonderful cloubreak to let sunshine into the dark
halls of Wassenaar and FT Meade spookdoms.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Reeza! 
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 12:01:01 +0800
To: "cypherpunks@toad.com>
Subject: RE: Postcard Debates
In-Reply-To: <199812111341.IAA15146@mailfw1.ford.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981212115057.00a85560@205.83.192.13>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



This would open the door for the USPS to charge for each email sent. 
The same rules? No. Based on those rules, but not the same rules.
The same rules would slow email down considerably also, wouldn't they???

Reeza!



At 08:41 AM 12/11/98 -0500, Wilson, Jamie (J.R.) wrote:
>If everyone just encrypted their messages then no suspicions would be raised
>regarding the use of encryption.  Most people use envelopes, plain and
>simple -- and as a result no one questions what they are hiding.  It's
>understood that mail is private and therefore people have a right to seal it
>in an envelope and not worry about people tampering with it.  On the same
>note, there are federal regulations and penalties (in the U.S. anyway) for
>tampering with mail and interrupting the delivery of it.  The same laws
>should apply to email.
>
>____________________________________________________
>Jamie R. Wilson                     
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Robert Wenzler [mailto:rwenzler@usachoice.com]
>Sent: Thursday, 10 December, 1998 13:56
>To: Mbishop645@aol.com
>Cc: maven@weirdness.com; hab@gamegirlz.com; Cypherpunks@toad.com
>Subject: Re: 
>
>
>
>
>Mbishop645@aol.com wrote:
>> 
>> >HaB wrote:
>> >
>> >>     That's a good place to begin, though.  "Would you send a letter to
>> >> someone without an envelope?"  "Then why not put your email in the
>> >> electronic equivalent of one?"
>> >>
>> >> balance.
>> >
>> >Would I send a letter to someone without an envelope?
>> >One word: postcard.
>> 
>> Ahh, but would you tape a check for your phone bill to a postcard? Other
>> than writing a greeting to someone what else do you use a postcard for?
>
>No, I would not tape a phone bill check to a postcard. There is the 
>chance for it to fall off.
>
>There is different methods of sending mail for different levels of
>security and functionality. Some people make it obvious what is inside
>an envelope. (who would not recognize a Christmas card from the
>envelope?) Others make it as bland and normal as possible to
>have it go by without much notice.
>
>It all depends on how secure you want it. Some things you can do
>with what amounts to postcard security.
>
>What amount of security do you want for your email? Would you be
>willing to do something extra for that security?
>
>This type of question is up to each person. How much risk is the
>person willing to take. Each person has the responsibility to
>understand what the risks are and to decide what risks they are
>willing to take.
>
>
>




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Reeza! 
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 12:11:45 +0800
To: "cypherpunks@toad.com>
Subject: Re: Postcard Debates
In-Reply-To: <199812112135.QAA13074@mailfw2.ford.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981212122138.00a8ccf0@205.83.192.13>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 08:22 PM 12/11/98 -0500, Robert Wenzler wrote:
>
>
>"Wilson, Jamie (J.R.)" wrote:
>> 
>> Back to a previous question: how do we get the public to understand the
>> concept of an "electronic envelope", the ACLU has created a PDF file that
>> prints to a brochure format explaining encryption on a level that even the
>> novice of users can understand.  It is available at
>> http://www.aclu.org/action/tools/crypto.pdf.
>
>Getting that concept across is a slow process. People will want to
>stay with what they are familiar with. Right now, I do not know how
>to familiarize people to accept an electronic envelope.
>

I think the paper letter/envelope analogy is perfectly adequate, and easily
understandable. The difficulty will be with the additional layer that must
be completed. If one of my sisters is representative of anything, it _will_
be a long, hard uphill climb.

A plugin for the gui interface that defaults to encryption for recognized
e-addy's would simplify, and enhance this effort. 

Reeza!


DH Key available on request


	"I swear to tell the truth, 
		the whole truth, 
			and nothing but the truth, 
				just the way the President did."

					--Tim May




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: mib 
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 03:35:49 +0800
To: Michael Hohensee 
Subject: Re: CFS & TCFS
In-Reply-To: <19981212092708.C25653@io.com>
Message-ID: <19981212130328.C1996@io.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Sat, Dec 12, 1998 at 05:57:42PM +0000, Michael Hohensee wrote:
> These are just NFS servers.  Do there exist any programs which actually
> keep the contents of the filesystem on your hard-drive encrypted?

ftp://ftp.research.att.com/dist/mab/cfs.announce ...
> CFS pushes encryption services into the Unix(tm) file system.  It supports
> secure storage at the system level through a standard Unix file system
> interface to encrypted files.  Users associate a cryptographic key with the
> directories they wish to protect.  Files in these directories (as well as
> their pathname components) are transparently encrypted and decrypted with the
> specified key without further user intervention; cleartext is never stored on
> a disk or sent to a remote file server.  CFS employs a novel combination of
> DES stream and codebook cipher modes to provide high security with good
> performance on a modern workstation.  CFS can use any available file system
> for its underlying storage without modification, including remote file
> servers such as NFS.  System management functions, such as file backup, work
> in a normal manner and without knowledge of the key.

http://vales.uni.net/tcfs/tcfs-faq.html#Q1.1 ...
> Question 1.1. What is TCFS?
> TCFS is a Transparent Cryptographic File System that is a suitable solution
> to the problem of privacy for distributed file system. By a deeper
> integration between the encryption service and the file system, it results in
> a complete trasparency of use to the user applications. Files are stored in
> encrypted form and are decrypted before they are read. The
> encryption/decryption process takes place on the client machine and thus the
> encryption/decryption key never travels on the network.

- d.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 03:40:20 +0800
To: "Albert P. Franco, II" 
Subject: Re: German government press release on Wassenaar (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19981212153310.006dc6bc@209.204.247.83>
Message-ID: <199812121828.NAA002.03@whgiii>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

In <3.0.3.32.19981212153310.006dc6bc@209.204.247.83>, on 12/12/98 
   at 03:33 PM, "Albert P. Franco, II"  said:

>I think the key idea which allows Open Source to be exempted is based on
>the availability to all eyes of the technology--not the legal rights
>attached to the software.

>The fact that the knowledge contained in Open Source software is
>available to all is the key. The legal right to use that knowledge is not
>quite the issue. If the knowledge in the software becomes "common
>knowledge" then defining its (illegal) export becomes extremely
>difficult.

I don't know about the rest of the signing nations but in the US at least
there is the unresolved issue of wether source code = protected free
speech under the 1st Amendment.

Considering the crypto section of the agreement is up for review and a new
vote in the year 2000 it may be that they are waiting to see how this
issue plays out in the courts.

Does anyone know what happened to the EU decision not to implement crypto
restrictions despite US pressures? Does the Wassenaar signify a change in
direction for the EU or do we have two different groups in Europe with
conflicting policies??

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: I smashed a Window and saw... OS/2.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0i OS/2 for non-commercial use
Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000
Charset: cp850

wj8DBQE2cqehlHpjA6A1ypsRAtyWAJ9782sKj0hRWAG6AzQRPct5U2mhGwCfTuLl
w8Png1jAQmuiFWOMxKTAyWE=
=r0Dm
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Frederick Burroughs 
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 04:57:29 +0800
To: Cypherpunks 
Subject: Re: Echelon, Diana, Wassenaar
In-Reply-To: <199812121635.LAA05204@smtp0.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3672CDBA.3E30C2EA@shentel.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





John Young wrote:

> The Wash Post today has picked up the hot European
> story of NSA's file on Princess Diana and linked it to
> the NSA's Echelon program.
>
> This is the first US major media story on Echelon, and its
> connection to privacy invasion of a global celebrity icon
> may do more to get public attention for the vile program
> than any previous investigation and report.

The public's appetite for Echelon will be wetted when they pick up
People magazine and turn to the section where celebrity exploits and
indiscretions are transcripted and given a government stamp of
authenticity, "NSA transcripts licensed for commercial release".

Echelon is a goldmine, and more than a few people are tasked with
exploring it's commercial viability. Clinton-Lewinski phone sex, Israeli
intelligence using their NY publicist links to blackmail US
politicians/Clinton. White House national security staff bursting
Israel's hold on the President through a supremely well engineered
public release of Clinton's indiscretions via the Paula Jones case.
Middle East peace brokered by statesmen promising to keep mum on each
other's transgressions. And, to add a touch of reality, impeachment
hearings to punish the President for lying about spitting gum on the
sidewalk... Books, movies and future governments are waiting for deals
to be signed. $$$

Echelon's a goldmine gentlemen, and Diana and Wassenaar are the first
hints of its commercial release. Voyeuristic history will be Echelon's
legacy, the NSA will soon become the largest contributor to the National
Archive and the booming entertainment economy.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Albert P. Franco, II" 
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 23:21:13 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: German government press release on Wassenaar (fwd)
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981212153310.006dc6bc@209.204.247.83>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I think the key idea which allows Open Source to be exempted is based on
the availability to all eyes of the technology--not the legal rights
attached to the software.

The fact that the knowledge contained in Open Source software is available
to all is the key. The legal right to use that knowledge is not quite the
issue. If the knowledge in the software becomes "common knowledge" then
defining its (illegal) export becomes extremely difficult.

>From this point of view, I agree with the author of the original
statement--this could be a very important boost for Open Source crypto.

APF

>Forwarded message:
>
>> Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 22:50:04 +0100
>> From: Alexander Kjeldaas 
>> Subject: Re: German government press release on Wassenaar
>
>> I applied for an examination of the Open Source definition to the
>> department for foreign affairs in Norway.  The response (no surprise)
>> was that Open Source is compliant with what the Wassenaar-agreement
>> calls "public domain" software.
>
>Actualy that is surprising since Open Sourse does not imply the loss of
>rights by the author as public domain does.
>
>If this is so and Germany interprets Open Source in this way then the OS
>movement will fail in Germany (at least). There will be no motive for
>authors to release their work since they will be in effect releasing all
>rights to it, not the goal of OS at all. The impact on this for closed source
>derivitive products is also of some interest.
>
>I wonder what RMS will have to say on that one...
>
>
>    ____________________________________________________________________
>
>          What raises the standard of living may well diminish the
>          quality of life.
>
>                                                 The Club of Rome
>
>       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
>       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
>       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
>                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
>    --------------------------------------------------------------------
>




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Alexander Kjeldaas 
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 23:17:52 +0800
To: Alan Olsen 
Message-ID: <19981212154326.B30941@lucifer.guardian.no>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Fri, Dec 11, 1998 at 09:10:36PM -0800, Alan Olsen wrote:
> 
> Note: I have not been able to get these to compile cleanly.  It may take
> some work to get them to work right.  (I know of at least one typo in
> devices/block/loop_gen.c that prevents it from compiling on the patch for
> 2.1.131.)

2.1.131.1 is broken.  2.1.131.3 should compile.

astor

-- 
 Alexander Kjeldaas, Guardian Networks AS, Trondheim, Norway
 http://www.guardian.no/




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Hohensee 
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 02:28:40 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: CFS & TCFS (was Re: Linux Encrypted File System)
In-Reply-To: <19981212092708.C25653@io.com>
Message-ID: <3672AE96.D05C639C@sparta.mainstream.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



These are just NFS servers.  Do there exist any programs which actually
keep the contents of the filesystem on your hard-drive encrypted?

mib wrote:
> 
> If you are running Red Hat Linux and want the Cryptographic File System (also
> available for most BSD-derived Unix systems and most current Linux releases),
> go to http://www.replay.com/redhat/cfs.html
> 
> If you are running Linux 2.0.X and want the Transparent Cryptographic File
> System (improves on Matt Blaze's CFS, they say), go to
> http://vales.uni.net/tcfs/
> 
> - d.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Hohensee 
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 03:44:13 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: CFS & TCFS
In-Reply-To: <19981212092708.C25653@io.com>
Message-ID: <3672C428.C2117E@sparta.mainstream.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Ok, so that was an especially clueless question for me to have asked. 
Oh well. :)

mib wrote:
> 
> On Sat, Dec 12, 1998 at 05:57:42PM +0000, Michael Hohensee wrote:
> > These are just NFS servers.  Do there exist any programs which actually
> > keep the contents of the filesystem on your hard-drive encrypted?
> 
> ftp://ftp.research.att.com/dist/mab/cfs.announce ...




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 17:26:12 +0800
To: Tim May 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981213140727.00bc6cd0@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 03:56 PM 12/8/98 -0800, Tim May wrote:
>Not much you can say to them while standing out in the cold, in any case.
>(Surely you will not invite them into your home! 

It does somewhat resemble inviting vampires into your home,
in that it's a bad idea, they can do whatever they want when
they're there, and they won't leave until they feel like it.
On the other hand, vampires usually can't get search warrants,
while police usually can. :-)

A while back, maybe 5 years ago, I posted a copy of an article
called "Don't talk to cops" or "Don't talk to police",
which may still be in the archives somewhere.  
Its advice was somewhat New York State oriented, but applies
reasonably generally throughout the US for the case of
police coming to your home (car searches are different,
and vary far more by state.)

>Maybe not even confirming my name...after all, I'm not driving and they
>can't compell me to produce a driver's license.

Not true in California.  If you *possess* a California Driver's License, 
and have it on your person, and a California cop asks you to produce it, 
you are required to do so, even if you're not driving.  
You're not required to carry it if you're not driving,
but if you are carrying it, you've got to fork it over.
This may not apply if you're on your own property - I don't think that 
that variant has been tested in court.
But if you're on public property, you've got to provide it.

If you live in other states, it's worth knowing the local regs
about such things as well.

				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: James Glave 
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 00:23:55 +0800
To: Robert Hettinga 
Subject: Anyone Striking?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199812141529.HAA27041@hardly.hotwired.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Anyone participating in the strike today? I'd like to possibly visit this
with a news story...

jtg

At 03:10 PM 12/10/98 -0500, Robert Hettinga wrote:
>At 9:05 AM -0500 on 12/10/98, Ken Williams wrote:
>
>> "Strike to protest Wassenaar!"
>>
>> URL:  http://www.zanshin.com/~bobg/
>>
>> "This is a global call for computer professionals to strike on
>> Monday, 14 December, 1998 to protest the signing of the Wassenaar
>> Arrangement, an international treaty that imposes new restrictions
>> on cryptographic software technology.
>
>Now, *this* is interesting...
>
>Anyone actually contemplating doing this?


James Glave, News Editor, Wired News, http://www.wired.com  +1 (415) 276-8430




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Igor Chudov 
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 23:27:44 +0800
To: cypherpunks-outgoing@www.video-collage.com
Subject: test
Message-ID: <199812141448.JAA21199@mail.video-collage.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


test




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Igor Chudov 
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 00:08:52 +0800
To: cypherpunks-outgoing@www.video-collage.com
Subject: test1
Message-ID: <199812141520.KAA22634@mail.video-collage.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


test1




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 03:48:51 +0800
To: "Gomes, Carlos" 
Subject: RE: Anyone Striking?
In-Reply-To: <59816DD7DAE9D11184E400104B66A353853107@cobra.netsolve.net>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 9:29 AM -0800 12/14/98, Gomes, Carlos wrote:
>Even http://www.openpgp.net is still up and operational.  I agree with Perry
>M. and Jim C. that the concept was good but the timetable was unfortunately
>unrealistic.  I've not run across any strike pages.

A foolish idea, that little "strike." Something out of the lefty sixties.
Grape boycotts and all that nonsense.

Clearly the Wassenaar folks will be so influenced by a few thousands
computer users withdrawing from the Net for one frigging day that they will
rethink their Orwellian plans and will admit their crimes in an orgy of
self-criticism.

Give me a fucking break.

The _only_ motivation was to induce journalists to give the think a few
column inches, if even that. "Hundreds of geeks cut their noses off to
spite their faces...details on page 75."

Exporting PGP within minutes of its release...now _that's_ a meaningful
action! (And one which Cypherpunks continue to be good at.)

Let's leave the "National Solidarity Against Racist Policies" crapola to
the lefties.

--Tim May

Y2K -- LMGALMAO -- Loading my guns and laughing my ass off
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: cyphrpnk@rainbow.thinkthink.com
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 03:32:59 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Some sites are...!!
Message-ID: <199812141853.KAA05212@rainbow.thinkthink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



--------

Some of us were in a position to make the switch...
www.first-ecache.com
www.donpablocigars.com
www.permutation.net

    Service will resume as normal at 2400 monday PST

      cheers
       Gwen Hastings
        Web weaver for above sites




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 01:18:20 +0800
To: James Glave 
Subject: Re: Anyone Striking?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 10:29 AM -0500 on 12/14/98, James Glave wrote:


> Anyone participating in the strike today?

Evidently not...

Cheers,
Robert Hettinga
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Perry E. Metzger" 
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 00:55:14 +0800
To: James Glave 
Subject: Re: Anyone Striking?
In-Reply-To: <199812141529.HAA27041@hardly.hotwired.com>
Message-ID: <199812141606.LAA14162@jekyll.piermont.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




James Glave writes:
> Anyone participating in the strike today? I'd like to possibly visit this
> with a news story...

I find it exceptionally unlikely that many people are participating in
this. Whomever called the thing was not thinking very clearly. You
need at least several weeks notice for such a thing to work, and the
two or three days notice (at most) that was given was way too small. A
strike of this nature might work, but only if someone with political
sense were organizing it.

Perry




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Gomes, Carlos" 
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 02:14:53 +0800
To: James Glave 
Subject: RE: Anyone Striking?
Message-ID: <59816DD7DAE9D11184E400104B66A353853107@cobra.netsolve.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Even http://www.openpgp.net is still up and operational.  I agree with Perry
M. and Jim C. that the concept was good but the timetable was unfortunately
unrealistic.  I've not run across any strike pages.

me

--
Carlos Macedo Gomes      gomes@netsolve.com       NetSolve, Inc.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robert Hettinga [mailto:rah@shipwright.com]
> Sent: Monday, December 14, 1998 10:01 AM
> To: James Glave
> Cc: cypherpunks@toad.com; cryptography@c2.net; dcsb@ai.mit.edu
> Subject: Re: Anyone Striking?
> 
> 
> At 10:29 AM -0500 on 12/14/98, James Glave wrote:
> 
> 
> > Anyone participating in the strike today?
> 
> Evidently not...
> 
> Cheers,
> Robert Hettinga
> -----------------
> Robert A. Hettinga 
> Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
> 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
> "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
> [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
> experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Sunder 
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 01:17:44 +0800
To: perry@piermont.com
Subject: Re: Anyone Striking?
In-Reply-To: <199812141606.LAA14162@jekyll.piermont.com>
Message-ID: <36753E2F.9A9306BC@brainlink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



"Perry E. Metzger" wrote:
> 
> James Glave writes:
> > Anyone participating in the strike today? I'd like to possibly visit this
> > with a news story...
> 
> I find it exceptionally unlikely that many people are participating in
> this. Whomever called the thing was not thinking very clearly. You
> need at least several weeks notice for such a thing to work, and the
> two or three days notice (at most) that was given was way too small. A
> strike of this nature might work, but only if someone with political
> sense were organizing it.
> 
> Perry

I'm striking.  Likely for more than a week more...


-- 
----------------------------  Kaos Keraunos Kybernetos  -------------------
 + ^ +        Sunder          "The   real aim  of current policy is to /|\
  \|/    sunder@sunder.net    ensure the continued effectiveness of   /\|/\
<--*--> ALLOW FREE EXPORT OF  US information warfare assets against   \/|\/
  /|\   STRONG CRYPTOGRAPHY!  individuals,businesses and governments   \|/
 + v +  PROTEST WASSENAAR!!!  in Europe and elsewhere"  -- Ross Anderson
-- http://www.sunder.net is protesting the Wassenaar Big Brother Attack! --




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William J.Hartwell" 
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 03:45:28 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Anyone Striking?
In-Reply-To: <199812141529.HAA27041@hardly.hotwired.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981214114703.007e68f0@mail.xroads.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Not striking.....

but I am not working very hard today :-)




At 11:01 AM 12/14/98 -0500, Robert Hettinga wrote:
>At 10:29 AM -0500 on 12/14/98, James Glave wrote:
>
>
>> Anyone participating in the strike today?
>
>Evidently not...
>
>Cheers,
>Robert Hettinga
>-----------------
>Robert A. Hettinga 
>Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
>44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
>"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
>[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
>experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
>
>
--
					William J. Hartwell
					   (602)987-8436
					  Queencreek, Az.

billh@ibag.com			billh@interdem.com		billh@hartwell.net




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Joel O'Connor" 
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 05:16:16 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: I must admit. . .
Message-ID: <19981214202550.24462.rocketmail@send101.yahoomail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I wonder sometimes whether or not there is hope for us to ever stop
this tyrrany.  I've seen a bunch of us diss the strike saying it was
an outlandish and foolish idea, but I hadn't seen anyone of you come
up with something better.  That act of protest, no matter how small,
serves to raise awareness.  Whether it's five minutes after finding
out that a war has errupted, or ten years into the war, each serves
its purpose.  At least it was na idea, it was a start.  We're never
going to be able to do anything at all if we don't start somewhere and
the strike seemed as good an idea as any.  Hopefully we can follow in
the footsteps of our ancestors who fought and died for freedom, true
freedom not this crap we see displayed on the tube everynight.  I hope
we don't fall into that catagorie of the kinds of people that talk and
talk and never do, for if this is the case, then we have already lost
and might as well drive ourselves to the concentration camps.  
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP 6.0.2

iQA/AwUBNnVz81MQ9C083U98EQI68wCfbCa/HA/NN1+u3865z7Oq3m5XvnEAn3kE
wl2adBuq2l21DFm/Isn+5MzK
=uEBu
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----





==
Ogre bounces like sonar. . .Peace.
                  Ogre

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Mark Lanett" 
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 05:32:30 +0800
To: 
Subject: Re: Mathematician-to-silicon compilers and the Law
Message-ID: <00a301be27a2$1ccb66f0$010101c0@aboutbox.meer.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Speaking of carrying... Can I export my theoretical
closed-source-commercial-strong-crypto-using software by printing out the
source at Kinko's, binding it, and flying out of the country? Any company
can afford to set up a 1-person shop in a variety of countries as necessary
(besides you need local ops to distribute and do tech support). Or do
F-O-Speech rights only apply to books published in quantity and that I'm
willing to let anyone read?

[I assume I haven't been paying enough attention; if was this easy then
Wassenaar wouldn't be effective.]

~mark

-----Original Message-----
From: Dutra de Lacerda 
>How about the best cipher of all?!? The one we carry between our ears?
>(Just proving the illegitimacy of such law attempts)





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 02:48:22 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: IBM's Secure Mailer
In-Reply-To: <59816DD7DAE9D11184E400104B66A353853107@cobra.netsolve.net>
Message-ID: <199812141810.NAA25671@camel8.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



NYT's Markoff reports on IBMs' release today of 
"Secure Mailer," an open-source platform for what's 
touted to be a superior secure e-mail system
proposed as a global standard for open development. 
It's the work of IBM researcher Wietse Venema.

IBM's description:

   http://jya.com/ibm-secmail.htm






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Gomes, Carlos" 
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 04:08:25 +0800
To: James Glave 
Subject: RE: Anyone Striking?
Message-ID: <59816DD7DAE9D11184E400104B66A35385310A@cobra.netsolve.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




My original statement is a bit off.  I think the past weekend in Dallas is
still with in spirit....

I don't think Jim nor Perry openly advocated the strike so let me chop that
statement.  And as for myself, I was hoping to see something a bit more
active in regards to a protest and I was hoping that the call to strike
would be a start.  The call appears to have been slightly still born if not
horribly premature.  

There were several ideas floating around: a) detach from the net and from
work b) create a signed letter of disapproval published to appropriate orgs
c) _short_ loosely organized burst of DoS against select online targets from
widely distributed sources.

All valid forms of protests (when properly organized and executed) all with
varying forms of impact and visibility.  For the record, I think option c)
could be a valid and effective form of active protest.  It is a form which
has not been used in support of the cpunks' agenda (or many agenda's for
that matter) to date and one that merits a review.

On to the next online skirmish...

regards,
C.G.

--
DISCLAIMER: The above views are mine and not of my employer or coworkers.  I
do not speak as a representative of their views.  Only of my own.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tim May [mailto:tcmay@got.net]
> Sent: Monday, December 14, 1998 12:39 PM
> To: Gomes, Carlos; James Glave
> Cc: cypherpunks@toad.com; cryptography@c2.net; dcsb@ai.mit.edu
> Subject: RE: Anyone Striking?
> 
> 
> At 9:29 AM -0800 12/14/98, Gomes, Carlos wrote:
> >Even http://www.openpgp.net is still up and operational.  I 
> agree with Perry
> >M. and Jim C. that the concept was good but the timetable 
> was unfortunately
> >unrealistic.  I've not run across any strike pages.
> 
> A foolish idea, that little "strike." Something out of the 
> lefty sixties.
> Grape boycotts and all that nonsense.
> 
[deletia]
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Eric Cordian 
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 06:42:36 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Forced DNA Collection
Message-ID: <199812142047.OAA07639@wire.insync.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Top Story on AP...

NEW YORK (AP) -- Despite objections from civil libertarians, the
city's police commissioner proposed Monday to take a DNA sample along
with the fingerprints of everyone arrested.
 
Commissioner Howard Safir said the test would solve crimes and help
curb repeat offenders. ``The innocents have nothing to fear ... only
if you are guilty should you worry about DNA testing,'' he said.
 
                              ...
 
In Britain, where DNA samples are taken from every suspect, officials
have solved 17 major cases using such data since 1995, according to
the National Institute of Justice Journal.

-- 
Eric Michael Cordian 0+
O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division
"Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 04:44:53 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: DigiCash Update
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


From: "Scott Loftesness" 
To: 
Subject: DigiCash Update
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 10:43:13 -0800
Mime-Version: 1.0
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-Msmail-Priority: Normal
Importance: Normal
X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0
Sender: 
Precedence: Bulk
List-Subscribe: 
X-Web-Archive: http://www.philodox.com/dbs-archive/

It's been a while since I've posted an update regarding DigiCash.

As you know, DigiCash Incorporated filed Chapter 11 in early November.
Since that time, over the course of the last several weeks, we've been
engaged in discussions with a number of parties around the potential
acquisition of the DigiCash assets.  These discussions with potential
acquirers are continuing.

We are also exploring other options for DigiCash.  One of these options
involves establishing a more broadly based licensing structure for the
DigiCash intellectual property.  I would welcome those of you who are
specifically interested in licensing the DigiCash IP for your own purposes
to get in touch with me directly (Email is fine -- see below).  Please
specify your particular area of interest in the DigiCash IP when you contact
me.

(Please note that we are well aware of several recommendations for opening
up the DigiCash IP.  These recommendations have been posted on this list as
well as having been discussed with me privately.  We are primarily
interested at this time, however, in ensuring that we are directly aware of
those of you who have a direct licensing interest in the DigiCash IP
specifically for your own purposes.)

Best,
Scott
__________________________________________________________________
Interim CEO
DigiCash Incorporated
2656 E. Bayshore Road
Palo Alto, CA 94303
(650) 798-8183 work
(650) 533-3142 cell
Email: scott@loftesness.com
   or: sjl@digicash.com

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Arnold G. Reinhold" 
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 06:15:03 +0800
To: "Frank O'Dwyer" 
Subject: Re: Text of Wassenaar regulations, with comments
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 5:59 PM +0000 12/14/98, Frank O'Dwyer wrote:
>"Arnold G. Reinhold" wrote:
>> I am not a lawyer and different administrations could issue more
>> restrictive rules (as the US does), but the new Wassenaar regulations
>> themselves do not seem to affect free distribution of programs like PGP and
>> Linux as long as they qualify as "public domain" as Wassenaar defines it.
>
>Unfortunately, AFAIK copyrighted software is NOT public domain. GPL and
>the like usually make a big song and dance to the effect of "this s/w is
>copyrighted and not in the public domain". Even worse, I think the
>original PGP is pretty clearly not in the public domain, since
>commercial uses must be paid for. So does anyone know just how does
>Wassenaar define the term "public domain", and is open source indeed
>covered?
>

This is the definition of PD from Wassenaar's "DEFINITIONS OF TERMS USED IN
THESE LISTS"  http://www.fitug.de/news/wa/Def.html:

>GTN "In the public domain"
>
>                           GSN This means "technology" or "software" which
>has been made available without restrictions upon its further
>dissemination.
>
>                                               N.B. Copyright restrictions
>do not remove "technology" or "software" from
>                                               being "in the public domain".

I think that is pretty clear, but it might be wise for people who are
distributing open source crypto to include language in their legal notices
stating that the material is to be considered in the public domain for the
purposes of the Wassenaar arangement and waving any rights that would cause
the export of the material to be prohibited under that arangement.  Check
with a good lawyer first, of course.


Arnold Reinhold





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Dutra de Lacerda 
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 01:41:22 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Mathematician-to-silicon compilers and the Law
Message-ID: <4.1.19981214164250.00962370@mail2.ip.pt>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At Sunday, you wrote:
>what  happens to the law when regular english is just a few clicks away from 
>being an executable?  A chip?

How about the best cipher of all?!? The one we carry between our ears?
(Just proving the illegitimacy of such law attempts)

>Politicians have particular problems linking abstractions to atoms.  

Will they understand the question:
	Can we decipher a Human memory by analysis of a brain?!?


And if they consider crypto as a weapon what about cars and radios...
...and phones... and pens... etc.

	I'm thinking of the Jeep in military action...
	Cars are used by terrorists. They depend on them.
	Same with phones... pens... radios etc.
	... (Not to talk again about human memory)

All these items have the SAME importance as crypto... with an increasing
treat cars can be when changed in REAL weapons.

	Are these anti-crypto folks just stupid... or insane?:
	Why don't they do laws limited to the terrorists?!? 
	In my country guns are prohibited... but criminals have them.
	The arguments used by them just smell funny.

	So:
	Anti-Crypto can only have a point as a tool to political control. 
	It also is the negation of all human rights including the one of
	intellectual property. Brave new World?!?


>I see two extrapolated futures.  In one, the end result is restrictions on 
>free speech in certain areas (e.g., crypto), for the benefit of national 
>insecurity and the Children.  In the other, the Law will have to allow you 
>whatever posessions you like, and only punish *actions* after the fact. 
>Given recent historical trends...

	Only brought to public prepairing the anti-crypto campaign!
	What are the real links?!? Facts please!

	Fact: No government today governs... they now only manage economies.
	The result: The degradation of social and cultural links.
	... and what have been the actions taken to such irresponsibility?!?
	Not actions of correction but of repression... Wrong path!!!

D.L. 

 - - - 
Antonio Manuel Melo de Carvalho Dutra de Lacerda
Morada		: Rua Rodrigues Cabrilho, 5 - 5 Esq.
		  1400 Lisboa, PORTUGAL
Telefone	: +351-(1)-3013579
FAX & BBS	: +351-(1)-3021098




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Secret Squirrel 
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 02:02:45 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: IRS COMPUTER SYSTEMS TO BE BROUGHT UP TO DATE
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



A consortium of companies led by Computer Sciences has been awarded a major
contract for a 15-year project intended to modernize the computer systems of
the Internal Revenue Service.  

USA Today 10 Dec 98




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Missouri FreeNet Administration 
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 08:30:22 +0800
To: James Glave 
Subject: Re: Anyone Striking?
In-Reply-To: <199812141529.HAA27041@hardly.hotwired.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



We just returned from this.  Feel free to ask whatever you'd like.

Yours, 
J.A. Terranson
sysadmin@mfn.org

--
If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they
should give serious consideration towards setting a better example:
Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of
unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in
the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and 
elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire
populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate...
This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States
as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers,
associates, or others.  Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of
those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the
first place...
--------------------------------------------------------------------


On Mon, 14 Dec 1998, James Glave wrote:

:Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 07:29:32 -0800
:From: James Glave 
:To: Robert Hettinga 
:Cc: cypherpunks@toad.com, cryptography@c2.net, dcsb@ai.mit.edu
:Subject: Anyone Striking?
:
:Anyone participating in the strike today? I'd like to possibly visit this
:with a news story...
:
:jtg
:
:At 03:10 PM 12/10/98 -0500, Robert Hettinga wrote:
:>At 9:05 AM -0500 on 12/10/98, Ken Williams wrote:
:>
:>> "Strike to protest Wassenaar!"
:>>
:>> URL:  http://www.zanshin.com/~bobg/
:>>
:>> "This is a global call for computer professionals to strike on
:>> Monday, 14 December, 1998 to protest the signing of the Wassenaar
:>> Arrangement, an international treaty that imposes new restrictions
:>> on cryptographic software technology.
:>
:>Now, *this* is interesting...
:>
:>Anyone actually contemplating doing this?
:
:
:James Glave, News Editor, Wired News, http://www.wired.com  +1 (415) 276-8430
:




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Frank O'Dwyer" 
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 02:53:23 +0800
To: "Arnold G. Reinhold" 
Subject: Re: Text of Wassenaar regulations, with comments
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3675520A.B9A4350@brd.ie>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



"Arnold G. Reinhold" wrote:
> I am not a lawyer and different administrations could issue more
> restrictive rules (as the US does), but the new Wassenaar regulations
> themselves do not seem to affect free distribution of programs like PGP and
> Linux as long as they qualify as "public domain" as Wassenaar defines it.

Unfortunately, AFAIK copyrighted software is NOT public domain. GPL and
the like usually make a big song and dance to the effect of "this s/w is
copyrighted and not in the public domain". Even worse, I think the
original PGP is pretty clearly not in the public domain, since
commercial uses must be paid for. So does anyone know just how does
Wassenaar define the term "public domain", and is open source indeed
covered? 

Cheers,
Frank.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: mib 
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 09:41:54 +0800
To: "Joel O'Connor" 
Subject: Re: I must admit. . .
In-Reply-To: <19981214202550.24462.rocketmail@send101.yahoomail.com>
Message-ID: <19981214191405.A1534@io.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 12:25:50PM -0800, you wrote:
> I wonder sometimes whether or not there is hope for us to ever stop
> this tyrrany.  I've seen a bunch of us diss the strike saying it was
> an outlandish and foolish idea, but I hadn't seen anyone of you come
> up with something better.

Cypherpunks write code?

- d.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 10:06:06 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: I must admit. . . (fwd)
Message-ID: <199812150144.TAA05750@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 19:14:05 -0600
> From: mib 
> Subject: Re: I must admit. . .

> On Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 12:25:50PM -0800, you wrote:
> > I wonder sometimes whether or not there is hope for us to ever stop
> > this tyrrany.  I've seen a bunch of us diss the strike saying it was
> > an outlandish and foolish idea, but I hadn't seen anyone of you come
> > up with something better.
> 
> Cypherpunks write code?

It's too bad they don't publish some of it in a newspaper or two...


    ____________________________________________________________________

          What raises the standard of living may well diminish the
          quality of life.

                                                 The Club of Rome

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 03:29:41 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: COMMENT: Minimum Security Devices and Procedures and Bank Secrecy
Message-ID: <199812141849.TAA01522@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>If this act is passed, I know what my response will be.  I will promptly
>withdraw all my monies from any institution that follows these regulations,
>refuse to do any sort of business with them, and urge all my friends and
>family to do the same.  I know that many others will do the same without
>hesitation.

Today I called the manager of the branch where I have account (for many years)
and asked him about "Know your customer" thingy and reporting that they
currently do. He seemed knowledgable to a certain extent about this matter,
and assured me that today they report only the $10K+ cash transactions. Then
I told him that I will take my business elsewhere should they decide to
offer "know your customer" service to the government and asked him nicely
to relay my stand to his manager.

Call them. These people make living from your money.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Rabid Wombat 
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 09:23:23 +0800
To: "William J.Hartwell" 
Subject: Re: Anyone Striking?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981214114703.007e68f0@mail.xroads.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





On Mon, 14 Dec 1998, William J.Hartwell wrote:

> Not striking.....
> 
> but I am not working very hard today :-)
> 

I didn't get into the office until after noon. That oughta be worth 
something ... 

yawn 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Rabid Wombat 
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 09:38:14 +0800
To: "Joel O'Connor" 
Subject: Re: I must admit. . .
In-Reply-To: <19981214202550.24462.rocketmail@send101.yahoomail.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





On Mon, 14 Dec 1998, Joel O'Connor wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> I wonder sometimes whether or not there is hope for us to ever stop
> this tyrrany.  I've seen a bunch of us diss the strike saying it was
> an outlandish and foolish idea, but I hadn't seen anyone of you come
> up with something better.  That act of protest, no matter how small,
> serves to raise awareness.

Nothing like an extremely weak protest effort to hurt the cause ...

Having three geeks unplug their computers for a day sends the message 
that "nobody cares."





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Sun Toucher 
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 03:59:03 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Striking!
Message-ID: <3675634F.331A@swipnet.se>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



well   



 you could say I striked. 




"Twilight is upon me and soon night must fall"




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 10:31:59 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: The grandest jury nullification?
Message-ID: <199812150215.UAA05879@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Has it occurred to anyone that if Congress really does end up voting for a
censure instead of a full impeachment we will have the largest jury
nullification in history, if it's based upon the consensus of the people per
the various samples.


    ____________________________________________________________________

          What raises the standard of living may well diminish the
          quality of life.

                                                 The Club of Rome

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ian Briggs 
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 13:34:54 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: Re: The grandest jury nullification? - Irrelevant
In-Reply-To: <199812150215.UAA05879@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <4.1.19981214211219.01c982c0@deepwell.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>Has it occurred to anyone that if Congress really does end up voting for a
>censure instead of a full impeachment we will have the largest jury
>nullification in history, if it's based upon the consensus of the people per
>the various samples.

Has it occured to anyone that if Congress votes for censure, we will have
the fastest rulling by the Supreme Court that censure is unconstitutional
in the history of the U.S.?


Ian


Welcome to 1984
as with all goverment projects, its a bit late 
and slightly overbudget
	-Ian Briggs.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 11:19:15 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: E-Snoop Law Review
Message-ID: <199812150246.VAA20931@smtp3.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



South Africa published in November a discussion paper,
"Review of Security Legislation" on electronic surveillance law
in several countries -- South Africa, US, UK, France, Germany, 
the Netherlands, Belgium, Canada and Hong Kong, with detailed
review of legislation of the last two -- as a basis for new 
legislation to protect against latest intrusive technology, or, 
rather, to restrict its usage to government agencies:

   http://jya.com/za-esnoop.htm  (364K)

Its comparative review of surveillance law is informative
for the way it lays out the similarity of each country's definition of 
the threat of technology -- somewhat to citizen privacy but more
importantly to law enforcement. It notes variations in privacy 
protection law, and finds, for example, US and UK deficiencies 
in that area even as these countries excell in manufacturing
the evil tools.

Still, South Africa is joining the crowd in tightening controls on
technology by proposing that telecomm providers make their
systems accessible to government (at their own expense), 
emulating the recent US-EU snooping agreement advanced 
by the FBI and Europol.

Thanks to APB for pointing.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 15:09:13 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: Re: The grandest jury nullification? - Irrelevant
In-Reply-To: <199812150215.UAA05879@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 1:13 PM -0800 12/14/98, Ian Briggs wrote:
>>Has it occurred to anyone that if Congress really does end up voting for a
>>censure instead of a full impeachment we will have the largest jury
>>nullification in history, if it's based upon the consensus of the people per
>>the various samples.
>
>Has it occured to anyone that if Congress votes for censure, we will have
>the fastest rulling by the Supreme Court that censure is unconstitutional
>in the history of the U.S.?
>

I confess to watching and listening to entirely too much coverage of this
event, on CNN, Court TV, CNBC, MSNBC, Fox, and the networks. Maybe more
coverage than I watched in 1995 for the O.J. trial.

The legislative branch, Congress, is free to pass any sort of resolution
condemning Bill Clinton that they wish to. In fact, the Congress once quite
constitutionally voted a bill of censure of President Andrew Jackson.

(These bills of censure are really just expressions of negative opinion.
They carry no consequences other than being "the sense of Congress.')

What they cannot do is to pass a "bill of attainder," a law punishing a
specific person, whether a President or you and me. By punishment I mean a
fine, or imprisonment.

Outside of this, they are free to do as they wish.

Not that I support such a bullshit minor punishment. Clinton is _asking_
for Congress to censure him, so what's the point?

--Tim May

Y2K -- LMGALMAO -- Loading my guns and laughing my ass off
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 15:30:23 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: I must admit. . .
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 12:25 PM -0800 12/14/98, Joel O'Connor wrote:

>I wonder sometimes whether or not there is hope for us to ever stop
>this tyrrany.  I've seen a bunch of us diss the strike saying it was
>an outlandish and foolish idea, but I hadn't seen anyone of you come
>up with something better.

Public protests...what have they ever accomplished?

(If you cite the so-called Civil Rights Movement, you get minus 10 points.)


--Tim May

Y2K -- LMGALMAO -- Loading my guns and laughing my ass off
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 08:41:40 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: ....
Message-ID: <199812150016.BAA31878@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> For fast file-system crypto, you really want to implement the ciphers
> so that you encrypt several blocks at a time.  
...
> I'd like to know how this method compares to using an interleaved cbc
> mode - for example 8-way interleaved cbc.  The n-way interlaved
> cbc-mode works by chaining each n'th block together instead of each
> block. [...] Am I missing something?

In either case, you need to be sure that changed data is always encrypted with
different parameters -- that is, a changed file should be encrypted with a new
IV or different offset into S1 and S2. Otherwise, the attacks used to recover
badly wiped information could be used to look back in time, so to speak, and
figure out which portions of the file were changed. It's more of a problem if
you're using ofb o ecb o ofb (i.e., the CFS mode) than an interleaved CBC mode.

The 8-way interleaved CBC mode should have different IVs for each "lane" (that
is, a monster 512-bit IV) -- otherwise, files data types with repetitions in
the headers could be identified. The IV should be secret to completely rule out
leakage. However, there are some important restrictions on how you can use the
key in making an IV -- I suggest something like this to ensure nothing is
messed up: hash the passphrase into K0, use nDES-OFB with K0 to make a K1 and
K2, then nDES-OFB with K1 for making the IVs which nDES-interleaved-CBC uses
with K2 for the actual encryption.

> 
> astor
> 
> -- 
>  Alexander Kjeldaas, Guardian Networks AS, Trondheim, Norway
>  http://www.guardian.no/





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 19:52:55 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: spy cell organization
Message-ID: <7ea12ca5e8c550cb3fb28bcb021cdcd8@anonymous>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



    This article is reprinted from Full Disclosure. Copyright (c) 1986 
Capitol Information Association.  All rights reserved. Permission is hereby 
granted to reprint this article providing this message is included in its 
entirety.  Full Disclosure, Box 8275-CI3, Ann Arbor, Michigan 48107. $15/yr.

    The Central Intelligence Agency like many revoluntionary organizations 
(including the Russian KGB) organize their agent networks on a "cell" system, 
with small groups who meet and carry out specific activities.  The small groups 
have very few connections with the rest of the organization.  Typically, the 
connections between cells will involve only one person in each cell.  See 
sample organizational chart prepared by the Central Intelligence Agency for use 
in Nicaragua by the "Freedom Commandos" (reprinted from Psychological 
Operations in Guerrilla Warfare, the CIA's Nicaragua manual).

    When this structure is used and a member of a cell is discovered and forced 
to talk, he can only inform on members of his own cell.  If he was the person 
with a connection to another cell it is possible that other cell will also be 
compromised, but only after the connection is traced.  However, the tracing 
procedure is very slow, giving the organization time to regroup.

    Although the tracing of the cell structure is very slow, intelligence 
information can be passed to the main organization quickly.

    The main problem with such a cell structure is that the messages which pass 
through many cells can get grabled and since the cells have great autonomy they 
sometimes work at cross purposes.

      The CIA extends the cell system to include Police Departments, Labor 
Unions, Student Associations, Medical Associations, Reporters/Editors etc.  
These cells are created by recruiting (or placing) an agent within the 
organization.  The placement of the agent would depend on the main purpose of 
infiltrating the organization: information or control.  Usually, most of the 
people in the "organization" cells don't know that they are working for the 
Central Intelligence Agency.

    In addition, the CIA controls numerous "private" corporations.  Usually, 
only a few of the top officers are aware of the CIA connection.  The 
corporations conduct normal business operations, and are also available to 
provide services for the CIA whenever necessary.

    A top-secret memorandum from Brigadier General Edward Lansdale to General 
Maxwell Taylor published in The Pentagon Papers, described "unconventional 
warfare resources in Southeast Asia" as follows:

                CAT [Civil Air Transport] is a commerical 
            air line engaged in scheduled and nonscheduled 
            air operations throughout the Far East, with 
            headquarters and large maintenance facilities 
            in Taiwan.  CAT, a CIA proprietary 
            [corporation], provides air logistical support 
            under commerical air cover to most CIA and 
            other U.S. Government Agencies' requirements.  
            CAT supports covert and clandestine air 
            operations by providing trained and experienced 
            personnel, procurement of supplies and 
            equipment through covert commerical channels, 
            and the maintenance of a fairly large inventory 
            of transport and other type aircraft under both 
            Chinat [Chinese Nationalist] and U.S. registry.
            
                CAT has demonstrated its capabilities on 
            numerous occasions to meet all types of 
            contingency or long-term covert air 
            requirements in support of U.S. objectives.  
            During the last ten years, it has had some 
            notable achievements, including support of the 
            Chinese Nationalist withdrawal from the 
            mainland, air drop support to the French at 
            Dien Bien Phu, complete logistical and tactical 
            air support for the Indonesian operation, air 
            lifts of refugees from North Vietnam, more than 
            200 overflights of Mainland China and Tibet, 
            and extensive air support in Laos during the 
            current crisis...
            
    When the goal is to control the organization, the agent would be in a 
powerful place, like a Sergeant in a Police Department.  This would enable the 
CIA to make use of the Police Department resources, computer data banks, 
officers, etc.

    The police officers might perform surveillance on a target for the 
Sergeant, not knowing that they were really working for the CIA.  According to 
Philip Agee/1, "Thousands of policemen all over the world, for instance, are 
shadowing people for the CIA without knowing it.  They think they're working 
for their own police departments, when, in fact, their chief may be a CIA agent 
who's sending them out on CIA jobs and turning their information over to his 
CIA control".

    Agents in Labor Unions can encourage strikes to cause economic difficulties 
when the CIA wants to stir up political problems in foreign countries.  
Reporters and editors can be used to plant propaganda in the press or have 
information withheld when its in the CIA's best interest not to have it 
printed/2.

    When the goal is information collection the target organization would more 
likely be other intelligence services, medical or technology associations.  The 
agent would be placed so that he would have access to as much information as 
possible.  This could be a communications or mail clerk, etc.

    The CIA also targets banks for infiltration.  They are good organizations 
to provide cover for CIA personnel in foreign countries.  The bank can provide 
necessary accounts in bogus names.  They can also provide faked account 
balances so that background checks would out come out positive.  Banks are also 
used for funding mechanisms.  The Bank of Boston was used for such purposes by 
the CIA in Brazil/1.

    When the cells aren't aware that they're working for the CIA, or think 
they're working for someone else, they can be put to other devious uses.  For 
example, if the CIA controlled a cell which thought it worked for the PLO, they 
could send it on a terrorist mission with the intent that they be caught.  This 
would have a two fold advantage for the CIA, first, the PLO would be blamed 
(providing a good opportunity for the U.S. government to expouse propaganda 
against the PLO), and secondly, it would allow the CIA to commit a terrorist 
attack with extremely little risk of exposure -- to achieve a greater level of
interference in the affairs of foreign governments.

    The CIA can also use cells within an organization which aren't aware of 
their connection to the CIA for less devious purposes.  For examples, they can 
make public statement which have the effect of alienating their supporters.  
When one section makes offensive public statements, major disruptions can occur 
within the organization.

#!/usr/local/bin/perl -0777-- -export-a-crypto-system-sig -RC4-3-lines-PERL
@k=unpack('C*',pack('H*',shift));for(@t=@s=0..255){$y=($k[$_%@k]+$s[$x=$_
]+$y)%256;&S}$x=$y=0;for(unpack('C*',<>)){$x++;$y=($s[$x%=256]+$y)%256;
&S;print pack(C,$_^=$s[($s[$x]+$s[$y])%256])}sub S{@s[$x,$y]=@s[$y,$x]}




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mixmaster 
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 21:09:27 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Global Strike to protest Wassenaar
Message-ID: <259a896938e4522ccd3d711a4d41f7c9@anonymous>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Richard.Bragg@ssa.co.uk wrote:

>The idea would be to exchange nothing while make it appear to be exchanging
>information of real importance.  OK so this will be just like any managment
>memo but you must get my drift.

There used to be a web site called "Throwing Sand into the All-Seeing Eye" 
which listed a long list of possible NSA-snooper keywords, such as military 
classifications and code words that could be sent for fun across the 
Internet for sole purpose of being flagged by the NSA.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 22:04:57 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: The grandest jury nullification? - Irrelevant (fwd)
Message-ID: <199812151343.HAA07259@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 21:13:22 +0000
> From: Ian Briggs 
> Subject: Re: The grandest jury nullification? - Irrelevant

> >Has it occurred to anyone that if Congress really does end up voting for a
> >censure instead of a full impeachment we will have the largest jury
> >nullification in history, if it's based upon the consensus of the people per
> >the various samples.
> 
> Has it occured to anyone that if Congress votes for censure, we will have
> the fastest rulling by the Supreme Court that censure is unconstitutional
> in the history of the U.S.?

How's it going to get there? The ex_president certainly won't appeal (and
face removal from office) and since Congress passed it they likely won't
appeal.

Besides the Constitution says that Congress must stop at removal from office
and barring from future offices. It is clearly within their power to simply
slap his hand or write him a bad report card.


    ____________________________________________________________________

          What raises the standard of living may well diminish the
          quality of life.

                                                 The Club of Rome

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: mib 
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 22:59:16 +0800
To: James Morris 
Subject: Re: Steganography ?
In-Reply-To: <259a896938e4522ccd3d711a4d41f7c9@anonymous>
Message-ID: <19981215080946.B15984@io.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Wed, Dec 16, 1998 at 12:39:32AM +1100, James Morris wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Dec 1998, Mixmaster wrote:
> > There used to be a web site called "Throwing Sand into the All-Seeing Eye" 
> > which listed a long list of possible NSA-snooper keywords, such as military
> > classifications and code words that could be sent for fun across the
> > Internet for sole purpose of being flagged by the NSA.
> 
> I imagine they(tm) would have countermeasures for this kind of thing,
> given that once they catch a keyword, they know it's source, and have some
> idea of the kinds of patterns which are likely to be real communications. 
> 
> The Web site probably went straight into a junk filter, which would make
> it an ideal place to post your secrets from then on :-)

Unless that's exactly what they want us to think!

- d.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: mib 
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 23:24:39 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: Re: Throwing Sand into the All-Seeing Eye
In-Reply-To: <259a896938e4522ccd3d711a4d41f7c9@anonymous>
Message-ID: <19981215082520.A17023@io.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Tue, Dec 15, 1998 at 04:02:00AM -0800, Mixmaster wrote:
> There used to be a web site called "Throwing Sand into the All-Seeing Eye" 
> which listed a long list of possible NSA-snooper keywords, such as military 
> classifications and code words that could be sent for fun across the 
> Internet for sole purpose of being flagged by the NSA.

The All Seeing Eye

What I propose, as a potential prank, is to include the following phrases 
in signature files on messages for a while. I'm sure the DoD will be annoyed.
It's a bit long, so ignore if you want to.

Chance
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Throwing sand in the All-Seeing Eye

by Paul McGinnis (original article posted April 24, 1994)
(this is an article about my plan to have fun with paranoid people in the 
US government)

I've often wondered if various entities of the US government monitor the 
public messages in newsgroups such as this or monitor unencrypted 
electronic mail. I've worked in the communications industry since 1987 
and I know how easy it is to monitor digital communications
-- in fact, it is often necessary to monitor data communications to find 
problems in the hardware or software.

There have been rumors that NSA can scan international links for keywords 
like "MX missile" or "Stealth bomber". It's very easy to set up this kind 
of filter program -- for instance, if you mention
Kibo in a Usenet public message, he will respond. With that in mind, I'd  
like to propose an experiment (maybe prank is a better description...). 
The following is a list of phrases that are put at the beginning of 
classified files by the US government. They are taken from Department of
Defense manual DOD 5220.22-M and Title 32, Section 2001 Code of Federal 
Regulations.

Note: comments are placed between square brackets, i.e. [this is a comment].

My experiment is to see what happens if you start putting some of these 
at the beginning of your Internet messages... 

primary markings

TOP SECRET
(TS)
[markings shown in parentheses are accepted abbreviations. For example, 
you could just put (TS)
on a document, instead of TOP SECRET]

SECRET
(S)

CONFIDENTIAL
(C) 

additional markings

SENSITIVE COMPARTMENTED INFORMATION
[very secret intelligence information]
SCI

DISSEMINATION AND EXTRACTION OF INFORMATION CONTROLLED BY
ORIGINATOR
[this marking, also written as ORCON, is used on information that clearly 
identifies a US intelligence source or method]
ORCON

WARNING NOTICE - INTELLIGENCE SOURCES OR METHODS INVOLVED
[this marking is used on information that could identify an intelligence 
source or method]
WNINTEL

SINGLE INTEGRATED OPERATIONAL PLAN - EXTREMELY SENSITIVE
INFORMATION
[US nuclear war fighting plans]
SIOP-ESI

CRITICAL NUCLEAR WEAPON DESIGN INFORMATION
CNWDI

RESTRICTED DATA - This material contains RESTRICTED DATA as defined in
the Atomic Energy Act of 1954. Unauthorized disclosure subject to 
administrative and criminal sanctions.
[used for nuclear secrets that are below CNWDI]

FORMERLY RESTRICTED DATA - Unauthorized disclosure subject to
administrative and criminal sanctions. Handle as RESTRICTED DATA in foreign
dissemination. Section 144b, AEC 1954.
[this label applies to nuclear secrets that have been transferred to a 
military agency from the
Department of Energy or its predecessor, the Atomic Energy Commission]

LIMITED DISSEMINATION
[used on information in Special Access Programs]
LIMDIS

FOREIGN GOVERNMENT INFORMATION
[classified material that originated with a US ally]
FGI

COSMIC TOP SECRET
[NATO (North Atlantic Treaty Organization) document that is classified 
TOP SECRET]

NATO SECRET

NATO CONFIDENTIAL

NATO RESTRICTED

ATOMAL
[NATO nuclear secrets]

NOT RELEASABLE TO CONTRACTORS/CONSULTANTS
[this might be used if the powers-that-be are discussing cancelling a 
contract with an aerospace company...]
NOCONTRACT

CAUTION - PROPRIETARY INFORMATION INVOLVED
[this marking is used on documents that would prove harmful to a company. 
For example, it could
be marked on TRW documents that weren't supposed to go to Martin Marietta 
Co.]
PROPIN

REPRODUCTION REQUIRES APPROVAL OF ORIGINATOR OR HIGHER
GOVERNMENT AUTHORITY.

CLASSIFIED BY MULTIPLE SOURCES

NOT RELEASABLE TO FOREIGN NATIONALS
[under no circumstances can this data be released, not even to a US ally]
NOFORN
[this is the dreaded NOFORN marking that Cliff Stoll jokingly said meant 
'No Fornication' in his
book "The Cuckoo's Egg"...]




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 02:11:33 +0800
To: holist 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




(Note: Please insert a Subject: line if your reader deletes the existing
subject. And please don't keep using "cypherpunks@toad.com," as that ceased
to be the list address a long time ago.)


At 5:59 AM -0800 12/15/98, holist wrote:

>Well, just imagine those one-day strikes becoming a kind of craze on the
>internet.
>Be honest now, you could do with one day a week when you simply avoided the
>frizzy screen, perhaps even two (heard about two-day week-ends, pal? When I
>went to school in seventies Hungary, we were allowed off every second
>Saturday as a great favour!)
>
>People could use their leisure-time, their time off-line, as capital, just
>by timing it with a little care! Boycott-brokerage! You'd be borrowing the
>muscle of the entire network: after all, they'd not be kind to anyone who
>somehow or other pissed customers off enough to drop network traffic by 10
>percent?

Now you're moralizing that we should use the Net less. A rehash of the old
"some of us have a life" cliche.

If you wish to be off the Net once a week, go for it. Just don't confuse
this with either having a life or making a politically interesting point.

--Tim May



Y2K -- LMGALMAO -- Loading my guns and laughing my ass off
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: list@listme.com
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 01:07:59 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: Is Your Listing A Secret?
Message-ID: <199812151605.LAA16345@listme.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



     We'll promote it to 50 search engines and indexes for $90
     and complete the job in 2 business days.  Satisfaction is
     guaranteed!

If you have a great product, but are not getting many inquiries from
your Web site, you may not be adequately listed on the Web's search
engines and indexes.

Millions of viewers daily use these facilities to find the products
and services they are looking for.  But if your site is not listed, no
one will see it.

Listings on most of these services are free.  However, locating and
filling out the forms required to get a listing can take several days,
and most people just don't have the time to do it.

That is why we offer a web site promotion service.

WHAT'S THE DEAL?

We will submit your site to 50 indexes and search engines for $90.  We
will accept the return of this E-mail, with the form below filled out,
as an order.  We will bill you upon completion of the promotion.  Our
terms are net 15 days from date of invoice.  Satisfaction guaranteed!

HOW LONG WILL IT TAKE?

Generally, we complete the submissions within 48 hours of
receiving your order.  It can take any individual search engine or
index up to three weeks to process your submission, although most are
much faster.

WHAT SEARCH ENGINES AND INDEXES ARE INCLUDED IN THE
PROMOTION?

The list changes from time to time.  This is our current list:

Alta Vista, Anzwers, AOL Netfind, BizCardz Business Directory, Bizlink,
BizWeb, Black Widow Search, Excite, Galaxy, HotBot, Infomak, Infoseek, 
InfoSpace, InterBis, Jayde Online Directory, Jumpcity, Jumper Hot Links, JumpLink, 
LinkMonster, Lycos, MangaSeeker, Manufacturers Information Network, 
Net Happenings, Net Announce, New Page List, New Riders WWW Yellow Pages, 
Northern Light, One World Plaza, PeekABoo, Planet Search, Power Crawler, 
QuestFinder, Scrub The Web, Seven Wonders, SiteFinder, SiteShack, Super Snooper, 
The YellowPages.com, TurnPike, Unlock: The Information Exchange, WebCrawler, 
WebVenture Hotlist, WhatUSeek, Where2Go, WhoWhere, World Announce Archive, 
Wow! Web Wonders!, YeeHaa!, Yellow Pages Superhighway, YelloWWWeb, Your Webscout, 
ZenFinder.


HOW WILL I KNOW THAT YOU HAVE PROMOTED MY SITE?

When we have completed the promotion, we will send you an HTML
file as an attachment to your E-mail bill.  Save this file to your
disk, and view it through your Web browser.  It provides links to the
search engine we submitted your site to, plus any comments we received
from them when we did it.

ARE THERE ANY GUARANTEES?

We do not require prepayment.  Your satisfaction is guaranteed or
you don't pay the bill.

WHO IS LISTME?

We are a web site promotion company located at:

   ListMe, Inc.
   1127 High Ridge Road - Suite 184
   Stamford, CT 06905
   Phone: (888) 205-5347
   Fax:   (800) 321-6966
   Email: list@listme.com
   Website: www.listme.com


HOW DO I ORDER?

The easiest way to order is through our on-line order form at
www.listme.com.  Or you can order by e-mail.  Just hit the REPLY button on
your e-mail program and fill out the following information. (This
information will be posted to the search engines/indexes):

Your name: 
Company Name:
Address:
City:              State/Prov:     Zip/Postal Code: 
Telephone: 
Fax: 
Email address: 
URL:  http://
Site Title: 
Description (about 25 words): 
Key words (maximum of 25, in descending order of importance):

Contact (in case we have questions): 

If  billing a different address, please complete the following:

Addressee: 
Company Name:
Address:
City:              State/Prov:     Zip/Postal Code: 
Telephone: 
Fax: 
Email address: 

We will bill via Email. (A8 12/15/98)

Terms:  By returning this document via Email, you agree as follows:
You have the authority to purchase this service on behalf of your
company.    Terms are net 15 days.  Accounts sent to collections will
be liable for collection costs.  You agree to protect and indemnify
ListMe, Inc. in any claim for libel, copyright violations, plagiarism,
or privacy and other suits or claims based on the content or subject 
matter of  your site.

WHAT HAPPENS NEXT?

When we receive your order, we will acknowledge it via return email. 
We will then input your information into our system.

When completed, we will run your promotion, capturing any comments
from search engines as we go.  We will incorporate these into an
HTML-formatted report to you, which we will attach to your bill.
======================Web Site Promotions======================
                      ListMe, Inc.
              1127 High Ridge Road - Suite 184
                   Stamford, CT 06905
                     www.listme.com
Ph: 888-205-5347  Fx: 800-321-6966  E-mail: list@listme.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Trei, Peter" 
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 02:26:30 +0800
To: dcsb@ai.mit.edu
Subject: DoS considered harmful [WAS: RE: Anyone striking?]
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Someone using the name Carlos Gomes [GomesC@netsolve.net] 
wrote:

> [...]
> There were several ideas floating around: a) detach
> from the net and from work b) create a signed letter of
> disapproval published to appropriate orgs c) _short_
> loosely organized burst of DoS against select online
> targets from widely distributed sources.

> All valid forms of protests (when properly organized
> and executed) all with varying forms of impact and
> visibility.  For the record, I think option c) could be
> a valid and effective form of active protest.  It is a
> form which has not been used in support of the cpunks'
> agenda (or many agenda's for that matter) to date and
> one that merits a review.
> [...]

> regards,
> C.G.

A DoS (Denial of Service) action is a really, really,
really bad idea.

It's both illegal and counterproductive. It's the sort
of thing I would expect to hear from an 'agent
provocateur' bent on discrediting critics of
government policy, by casting them as malicous hackers.

We went through this once before. Back when I was
getting the DES challenges going, some one proposed
that the target should be a live bank transaction (I
think in Germany). I argued strenuously against such a
move, and in favor of a specifically created target
This goal was fullfilled when I got RSA to set up and
sponsor the Symmetric Key Challenges.

If a group of people coordinated in any way to mount a
DoS attack, the effects would include:

1. Lump anyone taking an anti-Wassenaar position
together with a gang of destructive hackers.  This
would be a tremendous setback for the Good Guys, and
play straight into the hands of the those who would
remove freedom.

2. Anyone engaging in such an attack would face
real-world LEA investigation for computer hacking.

3. Anyone who discusses such an attack with anyone who
actually goes out and does it (other than to argue
against it, as I am doing) could be charged with
conspiracy.

[So, if any of you are idiotic enough to do this, do
the rest of us a favor, and keep your discussion to
private channels and *off* the mailing lists. I *don't*
want to know.]

4. Most importantly, It Would Be Wrong. As long as
legal channels exist to right the errors of government
policy, they should be used. That governments stoop to
dishonest, deceitful, and unconstitutional activities
(or activities 'legal' only in the Clintonian sense)
does not justify others abandoning the moral high
ground.

I don't think a strike is going to fly, either. What
might work is a Web page blackout, similar to that
done for the original CDA nonsense.

Peter Trei
ptrei@securitydynamics.com

[Disclaimer: In this message, I speak for myself only.]




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Missouri FreeNet Administration 
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 03:32:47 +0800
To: ari.hypponen@DataFellows.com
Subject: Re: MEDIA RELEASE: Data Fellows Joins the Microsoft Security  Partners Program
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19981215170136.0098ad60@smtp.datafellows.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Tue, 15 Dec 1998, Marita Nasman-Repo Blathered:

:Helsinki, Finland, December 15, 1998-- Data Fellows, the global leader in
:developing data security software solutions, has been invited to join the
:Microsoft Security Partners Program.
"Invited"?   You mean they finally accepted your application, right?

:The Microsoft Security Partners Program
:(http://www.microsoft.com/security/partners) provides customers with the
:tools and information they need to establish, test and maintain effective
:information security for their computing infrastructure. 
By providing real-life examples of how NOT to implement security
practices.  By simply purchasing these failed products (at only *slightly*
exhorbitant prices), so can learn by example: see for yourself just how
easy it is to completely botch a security directive.  Witness how
thoroughly you can mangle password encryption.  Learn what major design
flaws *really* look like!

:The program brings
:together software manufacturers, security consultants and security
:trainers, making it even easier for customers to provide robust security in
:their Microsoft Windows NT operating system-based networks.
Just as soon as it becomes available?  Oh, BTW, when *will* that be???

:Three Data Fellows products are included in the Microsoft Security Partners
:Program. 
I'm sorry.  But don't worry, if you keep working on it, you'll be able to
sell it to a *real* vendor someday...

:F-Secure Workstation Suite consists of malicious code detection
:and removal as well as unobtrusive file and network encryption,
Very unobtrusive, I'm sure!  Does the attacker even know it's there?

: all
:integrated into a policy-based management architecture. 
Hmmm... Somebody's been playing with their buzzword-generator again :)

:F-Secure VPN+
:provides a software-based, IPSec/IKE VPN solution scaleable for large
:corporate networks as well as remote and small office networks.
Was that IPSec/IKE, or IPSec-like?  I vote for the latter.  It's just like
IPSec, but without wasting all those nasty cycles on dumb things - like
encryption: it's *so much* more user-friendly when it doesnt [further]
slow the speed of new window open/closes...

: F-Secure
:FileCrypto is the first and only product to integrate strong real-time
:encryption directly into the Windows NT-based file system.
Could be, we already know that Micro$loth has *no clue* when it comes to
these things (Right Paul???)...

:"Microsoft is pleased to include Data Fellows as part of its Security
:Partners Program," said Karan Khanna, Windows NT Security Product Manager
:at Microsoft Corp.
Of course you are.  Micro$loth would be pleased to welcome Joseph Stalin
into the Security Partners Program.

: "This program will help our mutual customers develop and
:deploy secure solutions built on the Windows NT platform."
Just as soon as they can get Windows NT to run faster than a 6809 with 1k
of 512ns RAM and a single parallel port for IO ;-)

:"The relationship with Microsoft shows Data Fellows' commitment to improve
:the native security of standalone and networked computers with a
:comprehensive, centrally managed suite of security services," said Risto
:Siilasmaa, president and CEO of Data Fellows. 
You're *that* worried about Micro$loth's current offerings, huh?
Personally, I'd let them fend for themselves, but...

:"Data Fellows is committed to
:providing globally available 
And this *IS* your *FIRST* priority, isn't it?

:seamless security for Windows users; security
:that is strong yet easy to manage and economical."
Great!  Let me know when it's available!

:Data Fellows is one of the world's leading developers of data security
:products.
Really?  Who decided that?  Do you have any research to back up this
awe-inspiring claim?

: The company develops, markets and supports anti-virus, data
:security and cryptography software products for corporate computer
:networks.
That's only because most of the private networks already know better.


Yours, 
J.A. Terranson
sysadmin@mfn.org

--
If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they
should give serious consideration towards setting a better example:
Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of
unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in
the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and 
elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire
populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate...
This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States
as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers,
associates, or others.  Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of
those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the
first place...
--------------------------------------------------------------------







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: DOOM Anonymous Untraceable User 
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 21:06:31 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199812151225.NAA04157@rogue.seclab.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



"No dictator, no invader, can hold an imprisoned population by the force of arms forever. There is no
greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against that power governments, and
tyrants, and armies can not stand. The Centauri learned this lesson once. We will teach it to them
again. Though it take a thousand years, we will be free." 

        -- G'Kar in Babylon 5: "The Long, Twilight Struggle"

#!/usr/local/bin/perl -0777-- -export-a-crypto-system-sig -RC4-3-lines-PERL
@k=unpack('C*',pack('H*',shift));for(@t=@s=0..255){$y=($k[$_%@k]+$s[$x=$_
]+$y)%256;&S}$x=$y=0;for(unpack('C*',<>)){$x++;$y=($s[$x%=256]+$y)%256;
&S;print pack(C,$_^=$s[($s[$x]+$s[$y])%256])}sub S{@s[$x,$y]=@s[$y,$x]}




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Jean-Francois Avon" 
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 07:38:13 +0800
To: "The Montreal Gazette" 
Subject: Fwd: Anne McLellan's voters reject gun registration...
Message-ID: <199812152242.RAA05466@cti06.citenet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



==================BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE==================
>Received: from bernie.compusmart.ab.ca (bernie.compusmart.ab.ca 
[199.185.131.34])
>	by cti13.citenet.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA22703
>	for ; Tue, 15 Dec 1998 13:02:25 -0500 (EST)
>Received: from remote322.compusmart.ab.ca ([206.75.84.147]:1035 "EHLO 
compusmart.ab.ca") by mail.compusmart.ab.ca with ESMTP id <409327-12752>; Tue, 
15 Dec 1998 10:52:54 -0700
>Message-ID: <3676A210.9C6687B8@compusmart.ab.ca>
>Date: 	Tue, 15 Dec 1998 10:53:20 -0700
>From: Peter Kearns 
>Organization: KEARNS & McMURCHY
>X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I)
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>To: Canadian Firearms Digest ,
>        "Anne Mclellan (Parliament)" ,
>        Bernard Johnston ,
>        Bob Burgess , Bob Lickacz ,
>        Brad Browne ,
>        Dale Blue ,
>        David Tomlinson ,
>        Don Davies ,
>        Donna Ferollie ,
>        Frank Szojka ,
>        Frank Williamson ,
>        Garry Breitkreutz ,
>        Gordon Hitchen ,
>        Jean-Francois Avon ,
>        Jim Hinter ,
>        "John St. Amour" ,
>        LE QUEBECOIS LIBRE ,
>        Manuel De La Paz ,
>        Mark Hughes ,
>        Pierre Bourque ,
>        Lorne Gunter ,
>        Shafer Parker ,
>        Pat & Mike Ryan ,
>        Paul Bennett ,
>        Paul Rogan , Peekay ,
>        Peter Cronhelm ,
>        Peter Figol , Ken Epp ,
>        Preston Manning ,
>        Jack Ramsay , Deb Grey ,
>        Monty Solberg ,
>        Raheem Jaffer ,
>        "Robin Leech \"SPIDERMAN\"" ,
>        Tony Bernardo 
>Subject: Anne McLellan's voters reject gun registration...
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>X-UIDL: ddaaa1595eab8ceea7515c82b013fcca
>

"The Edmonton Examiner" a local community newspaper, ran an
editorial entitled "Gun lobby has a point."  In it they
accused the "pro-gun" faction of posturing and paranoia, but
then went on to say the so called "lobby" is correct in it's
assessment of the registry.  The paper  said, "the
government has failed to show how gun registration will
reduce crime, which is the sole reason for registration."  

	The newspaper also asked how would knowing that people own
rifles deter crimes, while "the new law does nothing to
deter the easy access to guns smuggled in from the U.S." 
Another statement follows, "and of course the criminal
element has no interest in registering guns."  The editor
makes one last telling remark, "So exactly what is the
point? Essentially, it is to gather information.  All
governments love information, the more the better.  But
there is no proof at all that registering guns deters
criminal activity."

	Sounds like an editor sounding off..... Right?   What
follows indicates the writer likes to do a little
investigative journalism.... The editor then conducted a
telephone poll asking the question "ARE YOU IN FAVOUR OF THE
GOVERNMENTS GUN REGISTRY PROGRAM?  (Remember folks, the
constituents of "Idle Annie" had their say in this poll.) 
The results were 76%  AGAINST the registration program with
24% in favour..... Oh dear, Annie..... You'd better hope
they change their minds come election time......  

	Comments from those opposed to the registry, "I have never
owned a gun, but I resent this program which smacks of a
police state."  Another said, "I have yet to undertstand how
having the gun registered that killed those students in
Montreal registered would have prevented that terrible
deed." The last and most telling,  "It is simply a way to
enable the confiscation of firearms in order to prevent any
insurrection or revolt against a government that may be
imposing oppressive measures."

	The usual comments equating registering cars and guns, and
the "only one life" bleat came from the 24% who actually
liked the registry.  One even said "Gun owners have to wait
hours to get their guns, instead of minutes.  Get over it
you big whiny crybabies."  (Kinda makes you question the
maturity of that one!)

	The polls are turning in our favour, and they are doing so
because we are educating the public.  The more they know
about the registration process and the costs, the less they
like the idea.  We have accomplished this without breaking
any laws, and without the need to indulge in civil
disobedience.  If we break (even unjust) laws and engage in
publicised acts of civil disobedience then we will lose. 
The newsmedia will then (rightly) portray us as a bunch of
right wing fanatics, and elements of the lunatic fringe. 
The NFA has proved we can be heard, and that the public is
seeing things our way without the need to engage in silly
demonstrations.  Let's see how far we can go within the law,
during the next four years.
regards,
Peter Kearns
NFA Communications

Simon says:  "Well what about it Annie?  What do your spin
doctors have to say about a poll that included the people
who voted in the last election in Edmonton West?  (Weren't
you elected to represent the views of the people who voted
for you?)...........


===================END FORWARDED MESSAGE===================






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: tony@secapl.com
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 04:36:16 +0800
To: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Subject: Re: First "Crypto Refugee"?
In-Reply-To: <199809040233.TAA29401@netcom13.netcom.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




> the shakespeare analysis seems like a good idea to
> me. I am not aware of literate papers that try to
> analyze it with frequency analysis instead of
> just vague assertions by the authors. there is
> a huge set of literature that tries to link of
> the writings of shakespeare to someone else, but 
> as far as I know not much of it is computer analysis.

  This was what brought William Freidman to Riverside, where he both
created monographs on cryptanalysis and met his wife. (described in detail
in Kahn.)





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: holist 
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 22:36:55 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199812151359.OAA05737@mail.elender.hu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Tim May wrote:

>Clearly the Wassenaar folks will be so influenced by a few thousands
>computer users withdrawing from the Net for one frigging day that they will
>rethink their Orwellian plans and will admit their crimes in an orgy of
>self-criticism.

Like the Irony.

But. I striked (or is it stroke?).

Largely as practice - not checking my e-mail for a continuous 24 hours was a
major spiritual trial. In return, I discovered a whole range of alternative
ways of spending evenings. You may have heard that in several countries in
Europe, telephone strikes by the public were successful in bringing
telephone prices down radically. Similar strikes by interenet users were
also successful in obtaining special deals, such as *flat rate local calls*
(a brand new buzzword in the hereabouts), at least on internet calls. What I
mean to say is there's a place for a strike.

>The _only_ motivation was to induce journalists to give the think a few
>column inches, if even that. "Hundreds of geeks cut their noses off to
>spite their faces...details on page 75."

Well, just imagine those one-day strikes becoming a kind of craze on the
internet.
Be honest now, you could do with one day a week when you simply avoided the
frizzy screen, perhaps even two (heard about two-day week-ends, pal? When I
went to school in seventies Hungary, we were allowed off every second
Saturday as a great favour!)

People could use their leisure-time, their time off-line, as capital, just
by timing it with a little care! Boycott-brokerage! You'd be borrowing the
muscle of the entire network: after all, they'd not be kind to anyone who
somehow or other pissed customers off enough to drop network traffic by 10
percent?

Exporting PGP within minutes of its release...now _that's_ a meaningful
action! (And one which Cypherpunks continue to be good at.)

How meaningful exactly? How do you know who gets it? The truly valuable work
is the creation of the social structures wherein such exportation could be
truly meaningful. I don't see a lot of that (perhaps you'll smirk and say
they hid themselves too well). It is quite clear to me that educating the
public is imperative: if people haven't got a clue as to what strong
cryptography is, etc. then they're not going to remember something as
foreign as Wassenaar even if it is on the evening news. But surruptitiously
spreading PGP to other countries doesn't seem to do a great deal of that.

What does?

Hacker activities that are illegal and dangerous and probably difficult,
too, have obvious potential.

But I think there must also be legal options.

comments, please



Let's leave the "National Solidarity Against Racist Policies" crapola to
the lefties.

--Tim May




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Duncan Frissell 
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 05:39:20 +0800
To: Secret Squirrel 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Cellphones are not going to make great tracking devices in the future.

I was just visiting the UK and checking out how the cellphone industry has
been developing there.

"Pay as you call" phones are the fastest-growing segment of the industry.
You can buy a phone for as little as 49 GBP ($83).  Cellnet sells one for
69 GBP ($117) that works on the Continent as well.  You can buy the cards
to "feed" these phones from hundreds of UK vendors.

Throw away phones are becoming popular in the US as well.  As prices
decline towards the $20 level, it will be increasingly difficult for the
authorities to track the huge number of anonymously purchased disposable
phones. 

DCF

"Did you hear the one about the Chinese contractor who promised Burlington
Coat Factory jackets trimmed with cainus latrans but substituted canis
familiaris instead?"




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Secret Squirrel 
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 02:02:33 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: IP: Cell phone tapping stirs debate
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>From :

Last updated: 11:00 P.M. Thursday, December 10th, 1998. 

                    HIGH SPEED CHASE AND SUSPECT ARREST

                    Cpl. Kevin Grebin/S.D. Highway Patrol: "It was the scanner traffic from his cell
                    phone that the officers picked up that enabled us to capture him."
                    A high speed chase and a cell phone conversation ends with one man in jail...
                    Law enforcement officials from both Iowa and South Dakota chased the man at
                    speeds in excess of 100 miles an hour.
                    He was wanted on a Federal warrant for drug charges.
                    K-S-F-Y's Judeka Drogt and Chief Photographer Lonnie Nichols were there and
                    have the exclusive report.
                    Natural Sound Of Arrest Being Made As It Happened.
                    32-Year old Tracy Fanning was quietly led out of a farm field 6 miles North of
                    Lennox.
                    Natural Sound Of Officers Going Through Suspect's Pockets And Finding
                    Drugs.
                    Officers found methamphetamine and two knives on him.
                    This was the successful ending to a very long night for these officers.
                    It all began in Iowa...
                    That's where Fanning was spotted by the Iowa State Patrol.
                    The chase began after they learned he was named in a Federal drug warrant.
                    He crossed into South Dakota around 11:30 p.m.
                    Fanning dumped his car at a rural home and ran...
                    As Police followed him they had no idea what they were facing.
                    Cpl. Kevin Grebin/S.D. Highway Patrol: "There was some ammo there that we
                    could not find a weapon to so we weren't sure if he had the weapon on him
                    when he took off."
                    For the next 3 and a half hours Police used dogs and spotlights to search for
                    him.
                    That's not all.
                    Fanning was using a cell phone to call a contact...
                    He was hoping to be picked up...
                    Instead it was the Police that were "picking up" his conversation...
                    And his location.
                    Fanning's last phone call led officers to his hiding place.
                    Fanning was taken to the Minnehaha County Jail at 3:30 Thursday morning.





                    LENNOX CHASE FOLLOW-UP

                    Drug crimes, high speed police chases and manhunts are something many folks
                    think happen only in big cities.
                    But as we've shown you exclusively, that's not the case.
                    K-S-F-Y's Brian DeRoy takes us to the site of this morning's manhunt.
                    Betty Vanderwerf/Rural Lennox Resident: "You just don't want to go out in
                    those trees in the daytime at least until somebody else could be caught."
                    Betty Vanderwerf is still shaken about all the police cars near her rural Lennox
                    home.
                    Betty Vanderwerf/Rural Lennox Resident: "It makes you feel like you don't even
                    want to take the dog out for a walk after dark, and you just want to keep your
                    doors locked."
                    Back where police finally caught up with Tracy Fanning...it was only after quite
                    a long search...
                    The suspect was running for a long time including back over in an area near
                    Betty Vanderwerf's house.
                    They located Fanning just behind some trees is where Betty Vanderwerf lives.
                    Betty Vanderwerf/Rural Lennox Resident: "Hopefully you don't think he's a
                    killer out on the run, he's just getting away from authorities for his problem."
                    Things are quiet in downtown Lennox.
                    But the talk in the grocery store is how close the armed suspect was to town.
                    Verg Musch had his doors unlocked Wednesday night.
                    Verg Musch/Lennox Resident: "Grew up in the country and from there into a
                    small town like this, I would imagine most of the people don't."
                    Well, maybe not.
                    Brian DeRoy/Dakota First News: "How many of you lock your doors at night,
                    raise your hands...most of you."
                    Lennox Resident #1: "We just always do, I don't know, always have."
                    Lennox Resident #2: "I'm on the highway and I'm just afraid if I'm alone at
                    night."
                    Back outside town, Betty won't be taking country living for granted anymore.
                    Betty Vanderwerf/Rural Lennox Resident: "It just kind of goes to show when
                    you go to bed at night, lock your doors."
                    A reality no matter what your address.
                    Lennox is still a pretty sleepy place.
                    The town has only three full-time Police officers.






So was it really intercepted cell phone traffic on a police 
scanner, or did they get his location from the cell phone 
company?


#!/usr/local/bin/perl -0777-- -export-a-crypto-system-sig -RC4-3-lines-PERL
@k=unpack('C*',pack('H*',shift));for(@t=@s=0..255){$y=($k[$_%@k]+$s[$x=$_
]+$y)%256;&S}$x=$y=0;for(unpack('C*',<>)){$x++;$y=($s[$x%=256]+$y)%256;
&S;print pack(C,$_^=$s[($s[$x]+$s[$y])%256])}sub S{@s[$x,$y]=@s[$y,$x]}




>
>From: believer@telepath.com
>Subject: IP: Cell phone tapping stirs debate
>Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 08:49:06 -0600
>To: believer@telepath.com
>
>Source:  USA Today
>http://www.usatoday.com/life/cyber/tech/ctd698.htm
>
>10/22/98- Updated 12:08 PM ET
> The Nation's Homepage
>
> Cell phone tapping stirs debate
>
> WASHINGTON -- Law enforcement officials say they need to
> know where a suspected criminal is when he makes a cellular
> telephone call. Federal regulators are proposing to give them the
> capability to find out.
> ...




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 08:37:42 +0800
To: jy@jya.com
Subject: crypto boredom
Message-ID: <3676F8D0.52EE@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Tuesday 12/15/98 4:37 PM

John Young

Seeing http://jya.com/kea-errata.htm makes me feel good that I am 
not doing crypto work anymore.

I talked with Kent Parsons this afternoon at Holman's computer.

Parsons was the department manager who was going to make his claim-to-
fame at Sandia on the Forth code we developed. "We aren't getting the
recognition [for Forth] we deserve." was a Parsons quote.

I told Parsons that the Forth code we developed is executing all over
the world.

Jane Ellson was one of Parson's secretaries when we did the
Forth 8085 and 8051 development in the weapons components department.

Ellson is now Sandia president Paul Robinson's secretary.

I need to revise my NSA-funded and Sandia-approved Forth book for the
80c32 and windows.  
http://www.apcatalog.com/cgi-bin/AP?ISBN=0125475705&LOCATION=US&FORM=FORM2 

I saw http://jya.com/intel120898.htm.

NSA's Forth expert Donald Simard talked to me about putting Forth on a
x86
PC as a stand-alone secure operating system.

Putting a secure RELIABLE operating system on a Pentium-class processor
will
be a MAJOR task.  Perhaps more than just building a rad hard version of
the chip.

Parsons also led the effort at Sandia to build the 8051 as a rad hard
chip at Sandia to replace Sandia's rad hard 8085 chip SET.

Forth works great for weapons programmers.  

We need to get this unfortunate matter settled so that we can ALL move
on to more constructive projects.

Later
bill





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Antonomasia 
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 03:02:02 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Reminder: key changes at notatla
Message-ID: <199812151744.RAA00598@notatla.demon.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1



New mix keys at notatla already in use.
Old ones expire 21Dec1998.


mccain mccain@notatla.demon.co.uk 49894e1cc7629bbb54a3b5f98ba6f6d6 2.0.4b41 MC

- -----Begin Mix Key-----
49894e1cc7629bbb54a3b5f98ba6f6d6
258
AASe8KR46cRA75Jk4YMcE32gpS1uqAveFpRxPVg7
qATY4aPIyVM40QHa/OrHdVc8twmKMNemcdZNCpdb
EDCtaVXLalJ7njbiLs8NMAEVP7WxMQP+1swjvHpR
qP1ikuvy89iNpTbDtl9uf11PNeXiWclrCyFkvS6m
4cXFPskXoa4xWQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAQAB
- -----End Mix Key-----


teatwo teatwo@notatla.demon.co.uk 4568791f20d5e004225c78e04625bca4 2.0.4b41 MC

- -----Begin Mix Key-----
4568791f20d5e004225c78e04625bca4
258
AATVHyCqv2SGgaEbY0HVnBONNsSQwElFCdvSyxhq
cGL4FZ5A1LGBAGNN+aHnfw0X8hvNsFB7EcmBsZ1v
fUt64xRG5gy2+A3rMlad36iZfqrNBKncGh+Y/uEx
nb+hTyANZNlHsUdAfo+lozx0xoB070e6K3rkgxDG
GytOW9VjDTVR3QAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAQAB
- -----End Mix Key-----


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP 5.0i
Charset: noconv

iQA/AwUBNmrcCTROc55Xv6voEQIs4ACeOat7f/0Kn5gLPazrp6rd+gGgsdEAn0nJ
4jhmxQQTvZWFg7d+BxM7WHHR
=pz5z
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--
##############################################################
# Antonomasia   ant@notatla.demon.co.uk                      #
# See http://www.notatla.demon.co.uk/                        #
##############################################################




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 07:43:04 +0800
To: cryptography@c2.net
Subject: DARPA's Active Network page
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I saw an article on this in InfoWorld. NAI/TIS and DARPA talking about
putting self-switching packets into the network. I don't see this as too
far off from packets purchasing their passage across the network with
micromoney of some kind.

All spookiness of the current research principals aside, of course...

Cheers,
Robert Hettinga

--- begin forwarded text


Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 17:12:39 -0500
To: Digital Bearer Settlement List 
From: Robert Hettinga 
Subject: Darpa's Active Network page
Sender: 
List-Subscribe: 

Here's ARPA's Active Network Page: 

Cheers,
RAH
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 08:49:41 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: DARPA's Active Network page (fwd)
Message-ID: <199812160006.SAA09381@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 17:50:56 -0500
> From: Robert Hettinga 
> Subject: DARPA's Active Network page

> I saw an article on this in InfoWorld. NAI/TIS and DARPA talking about
> putting self-switching packets into the network. I don't see this as too
> far off from packets purchasing their passage across the network with
> micromoney of some kind.

How does the packet know what is a good price or a bad price as it makes
each hop? Whose processor is it using to run its program to evaluate the
costs? Who pays for that processor cost on a node that isn't selected? Who
has access to the audit trail? How does a reliable copy get back to the
originator? How does it do this in an anonymous network?


    ____________________________________________________________________

          What raises the standard of living may well diminish the
          quality of life.

                                                 The Club of Rome

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 09:14:43 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: NSA Electronic Sheriff
Message-ID: <199812160043.TAA18739@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>From a new report:

"Cybercrime, Cyberterrrorism, Cyberwarfare"

Tomorrow's frontline commanders will be drawn from 
the ranks of computer wizards. The sandal culture is 
challenging the wingtips. The National Security Agency's 
(NSA) new electronic sheriff, responsible for protecting 
NSA's ground stations, is a 23-year-old GS-14. In the 
civilian sector, "techies" have moved into senior 
management positions.

   http://jya.com/cyber-trip.htm






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 12:21:11 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: First "Crypto Refugee"?
In-Reply-To: <199809040233.TAA29401@netcom13.netcom.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 11:04 AM -0800 12/15/98, tony@secapl.com wrote:
>> the shakespeare analysis seems like a good idea to
>> me. I am not aware of literate papers that try to
>> analyze it with frequency analysis instead of
>> just vague assertions by the authors. there is
>> a huge set of literature that tries to link of
>> the writings of shakespeare to someone else, but
>> as far as I know not much of it is computer analysis.
>
>  This was what brought William Freidman to Riverside, where he both
>created monographs on cryptanalysis and met his wife. (described in detail
>in Kahn.)

And computerized textual analyses of Shakespeare was one of the most
publicized applications of the computers in the 60s. I remember reading
several stories about this then. And I recall an exhibit on the results of
such computerized search, as of around 1968 or so, at the Folger
Shakespeare Library in Washington, D.C. (a class outing).

As when Detweiler or someone proposed this as a "neat thing for Cypherpunks
to do" a couple of years ago, the idea was old before 98% of this list were
born.

Not saying it's not still an interesting research topic, just that it's a
well-established field. And most of the low-hanging fruit has been picked.

--Tim May


Y2K -- LMGALMAO -- Loading my guns and laughing my ass off
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jay Holovacs 
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 09:30:34 +0800
To: mib 
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19981215195143.006d7300@pop3.idt.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 08:25 AM 12/15/98 -0600, mib wrote:
>
>On Tue, Dec 15, 1998 at 04:02:00AM -0800, Mixmaster wrote:
>> There used to be a web site called "Throwing Sand into the All-Seeing Eye" 
>> which listed a long list of possible NSA-snooper keywords, such as
military 
>> classifications and code words that could be sent for fun across the 
>> Internet for sole purpose of being flagged by the NSA.
>

Here are some more suggestions (I didn't make this list; all of these
supposedly were on watch actual lists of different types----"thanks" to the
police & spook organizations for doing the research)


>
>Act Now; ACT-UP; Action for Animals; Adrian 17; African Students Org./S.F.
>State; African Network; African 
>National Reparations Org.; African People's Socialist Party; African
People's >Solidarity Comm.; African 
>Students Org.; Africans United for Progress; AFSCME Local 3218 (Vice
Pres.); >AFSCME Local 3508; Alexandria 
>Assoc. of Human Rights Advocacy; All Peoples Congress; Alliance for
Philippine >Concerns; Alliance to Stop First 
>Strike; Alliance to Stop Police Abuse; Allied Printing Trades Council;
>Alternative Information Center; 
>Amer-I-Can; American Civil Liberties Union; American Indian Center;
American >Indian Movement; American Indian 
>Student Org.; American Muslim Museum; Americans for Peace Now; Anarchist
>Collective; ANC Meeting; _Ang 
>Katipuan_; Anti-Apartheid Comm./AFSCME; Anti-Militarism Comm.; Anti-Racist
>Action; April 19th Comm. Against 
>Nazis; Arab Baath Socialist Party; Arab Lesbian Network; Armenian National
>Comm.; Armenian Peoples Movement; 
>Arms Control Research Center; Artists and Videomakers Against the War;
Artists >and Writers Out Loud; Artists 
>Television Access; Asian Law Caucus; Audio Archives; Author of Measure J;
>Babylon Burning; Back Country Action 
>Network; Bad Cop/No Donut; Barricada Internacional; Bay Area Anti-Racist
>Action; Bay Area Coalition for Our 
>Reproductive Rights; Bay Area Friends of the Christic Institute; Bay Area
>Jewish Task Force on Cent. Am.; Bay 
>Area Natl. Conf. of Black Lawyers; Bay Area Peace Council; Bay Area Peace
Navy; >Bay Area Reporter; Bay Area 
>Times; Bay Area Vets Against War in Mid. East; Beebee Memorial C.M.E.
Temple; >Ben Linder Construction Brigade; 
>Big Mountain Native People's Support; Bir Zeit Univ. Instructor; Black
>Consciousness Movement of Azania; Black 
>Freedom Fighters Coalition; Black Men United for Change; Black Studies
>Department/S.F. State; Black United 
>Front; Boricuan Popular Army for Puerto Rican Independence; Boycott Coke;
>Boycott Shell Comm.; Breakthrough; 
>Brigada Antonio Maceo; Brothers of African Descent; Bulletin in Defense of
Marxism; 
>Calendar Magazine (Gay); California Voice; Campaign Against Apartheid;
Campus >Peace Comm.; Canadians for 
>Justice in the Middle East; Capp Street Center; Capp Street Foundation;
>Carpenters Local 22; Casa El Salvador; 
>Casa El Salvador Mailing List; Center for Constitutional Rights; Center
for >Democratic Renewal; Center for 
>Investigative Reporting; Center for Middle East Studies; Center for the
Study >of the Americas; Cent. Amer. 
>Research Institute; Chair: Chicano Studies (U.C. Berkeley); Chop
>>Representative Government; Coalition of Black 
>Trade Unionists; Commission of Inquiry; Comm. Against Lockheed D-5; Comm.
for >Academic Freedom in 
>Israeli-Occupied Territories; Comm. for Equality and Justice; Comm. for
Freedom >in Argentina; Comm. for Peace 
>and Democracy in Iran; Comm. for Perm. Israeli-Palestinian Peace; CISPES;
>Cistur; Committee to Free Geronimo 
>Pratt; Comm. to Support the Revolution in Peru; Communist Party U.S.A.;
>Communist Workers Party; Communist 
>Youth Brigade; Community-Labor Coalition for Social & Econ. Justice;
Community >United Against Violence; 
>Continuing the Peace Dialogue; Contra Watch Newsletter; Copwatch; Council
for >the National Interest; Council on 
>Foreign Relations; CounterSpy; Covert Action Information Bulletin; Covert
>Action; Cuba Resource Group; Cuba 
>Information Project; Delta Sigma Beta; Democratic Society of America;
>Democratic Workers Party; Dennis Banks 
>Defense Comm.; Diablo Valley Peace Center; Direct Action Against Racism;
>Doghouse Newsletter; Downside Records; 
>Dykes and Gay Emergency Response; Earth Island Institute; East Bay Women
for >Peace; El Centro de la Raza; El 
>Tecolote; Emergency Coalit. for Palestinian Rights; Emergency Coalition to
End >War; Emergency Comm. to Stop 
>Flag Amendment; Endorser of Proposition W; Fairness and Accuracy in
Reporting; >Fighting Back; Filipino East Bay 
>Network; Filipino Organization Comm.; FMLN-FDR West Coast Representative;
Food >First; Food Not Bombs; Free S.A. 
>Labor Comm.; Freedom for S.A. Refugees Campaign; Freedom for S.A. Refugees
>Center; Freedom Rising Africa 
>Solidarity Comm.; Freedom Road Socialist Org.; Freedom Socialist Party;
Friends >of Nicaragua; Friends of Yesh 
>Gvul; Frontline; Frontline Managing Editor; Gay American Indians; Gay and
>Lesbian Labor Alliance; Global 
>Exchange; Global Options; Green Giant Frozen Food Workers Comm.;
Greenpeace; >Group for the Critical Study of 
>Colonialism; Guardian; Guatemala News and Information Bureau; Harvey Milk
Club; >Hotel and Restaurant Employees 
>Local 2; ILWU Local 6, President; ILWU Local 10; INCAR; In These Times;
>Independent Grocers Assn.; Info. 
>Network Against War and Fascism; Information Services on Latin America;
>Instituto del Pueblo; Interfaith Center 
>on Corporate Accountability; Interfaith Task Force on Cent. Amer.;
>Inter-Hemispheric Education Resource Ctr.; 
>Intl. Campaign to Free Geronimo Pratt; Internatl. Comm. Against Racism;
>Internatl. Indian Treaty Council; 
>Internatl. Jewish Peace Union; Internatl. League for Human Rights/N. Amer.
>Chapter; Internatl. Socialist Org.; 
>Internationalist Workers Party; Irish National Aid; Irish Northern Aid;
Irish >Republican Socialist Comm.; 
>Israeli Foreign Affairs; Israelis Against Occupation; Japanese-American
>Citizens League; Jewish Comm. on the 
>Middle East; John Brown Anti-Klan Comm.; KPOO Radio; KQED-TV Board of
Directors; KUNA; 
>Labor Comm. on the Middle East; Labor for Peace; Labor Video; LAGAL; La
Raza >Coalition of Berkeley; La Raza 
>Unida; Latin American Support Comm.; Lavender Mafia; Lawyers Comm. on
Cent. >Amer.; League of Filipino Students; 
>Leonard Peltier Alliance Group; Lesbian Agenda for Action; Lesbians and
Gays >Against Intervention; Liberation 
>Support Movement; Libros Sin Fronteras; Line Of March; L.A. Coalition
Against >Intervention in the Middle East; 
>L.A. Observer; L.A. Student Coalition; 
>MADRE; Malcolm X Grassroots Movement; Mandela Reception Comm.; Maoist
>Internationalist Movement; Marazul
>Tours; Mariposa Peace Network; Marxist-Leninist Party; Media Review;
Middle >East Children's Alliance; Middle 
>East Comm. for National Conference of Black Lawyers; Middle East Peace
Network; >Midwest Labor Institute; 
>Mobilization Support Group; Modern Times Bookstore; Mother Jones;
Movimiento de >Agrupacion Popular; Movimiento 
>Estudiantil Chicano; 
>NABET Local 51/Executive Board; NALC Local 14; National Alliance of Third
World >Journalists; NAACP; National 
>Call to Action; Natl. Coalition of Black Lesbians and Gays; Natl. Comm.
Against >Repressive Legislation; 
>National Conference of Black Lawyers; National Forum of S.A.; National
Midweek; >National Org. of African 
>Students in N. Am.; National Rainbow Coalition; National Response
Comm./NBAU; >National Student Cent. Am. Action 
>Network; National Student Lobby; National Union of Farmers; Network of
>Arab-American Students; Network in 
>Solidarity with Chile; New Afrikan Peoples Org.; New Alliance Newspaper;
New >Alliance Party; New Americas 
>Press; New Jewish Agenda; New Movement in Solidarity with Puerto Rican
>Independentistas; Nicaragua Cultural 
>Center; Nicaragua Information Center; Nicaragua Information Center
Bulletin; >Nicaragua Interfaith Comm. Action; 
>Nicaragua Network News; No Apologies/No Regrets; No Business As Usual; No
>Justice, No Peace; North Bay 
>Anti-Racist Action; North Star; Northern California Ecumenical Council;
Now >Magazine, Toronto (Canada); 
>Nuremberg Action; Oakland Education Association; O.C. Coalition for Peace
in >the Middle East; OCAW; OCAW Local 
>8149; October 6 Justice Project; Oregon Philippines Concerns Comm.; Out of
>Control Comm.; Outrage; 
>Pacifica Foundation; Pakistan Democratic Comm.; Pan African Movement of
the >U.S.; Partido Socialista Chileno; 
>Partido Socialista Puertorriqueno; Partisan Defense Comm.; Patrice Lumumba
>Coalition; Paul Robeson Friendship 
>Society; Peace and Conflict Studies; Peace and Freedom Comm.; Peace and
Freedom >Party; Peace and Justice Comm. 
>- School Board; Peace and Solidarity Alliance; Peace and Solidarity Comm.;
>Peace Cafe; Peace Research Center;
>People Against Racist Terror; Peoples Anti-War Mobilization; Peoples
>Architecture Collective; Peoples Law 
>Office; Peoples Park; Peoples Video; Peoples World; Pershing Plowshares;
>Philippine Organizing Comm.; 
>Philippine Resource Center; Philippines Human Rights Lobby; Pledge of
>Resistance; Plumbers and Fitters Local 
>393; Portland Cent. Am. Solidarity Comm.; Prison News Service; Project
Impact; >Project National Interest; 
>Public Eye; 
>Queer Nation; Quinn Defense; Radical Film Collective; Radical Women;
Rainbow >Coalition; Rainbow Lobby; Refuse 
>and Resist; Republic of New Afrika; Revolutionary Books; Revolutionary
>Communist Party; Revolutionary Communist 
>Youth Brigade; Revolutionary Worker; Revolutionary Workers League;
Richmond >Education Assn.; Roots Against War; 
>San Fernando Valley Peace Coalition; San Francisco Bay Guardian; S.F.
Coalition >of Labor Union Women; S.F. 
>Labor Council/AFL-CIO; San Francisco Sentinel; S.F. Univ. Labor Studies;
San >Francisco Weekly; S.F. Women for 
>Peace; SANE/FREEZE; Sardaraba; Science for Nicaragua; SEIU Local 535; SEIU
>Local 616; Serbian Unity Congress; 
>Shell Boycott Comm.; Simon Wiesenthal Center; Sister City Assn; Socialist
>Action; Socialist Party Political 
>Org.; Socialist Workers Party; Society of In'Ash El-U.S.A.; SOHRI Study
Group >(U.C. Berkeley); Solidarity; S.A. 
>Forum; S.A. Freedom Through Education Foundation; S.A. Internatl. Student
>Congress; South African Workers Org.; 
>South Bay Nicaragua Solidarity Comm.; So. African Liberation Support
Comm.; >Southern African Media Center; 
>Spartacus Youth League; Spartacist League; Stevens, Hinds & White,
Attorneys; >Stop the U.S. War Machine Action 
>Network; Student Cltn. Against Apartheid and Racism; Student Pugwash;
Students >Against Intervention; Students 
>Against Intervention in Cent. Am.; Students for Peace in the Persian Gulf;
>SWAPO; SWAPO Meeting; 
>Tass News Agency; Teamsters Local 921, S.F. Teamsters for a Democratic
Union; >Technica; The Black Scholar; The
>Data Center; The Dazen-I Foundation; The Irishman; The Nuclear Resister;
Third >World Resources; Toronto
>Anti-Intervention Coalition; Trustee, IAM Local 565 (Sunnyvale); 
>Ubiquitous; Unified Against Genocide; Union del Barrio; Union of
Democratic >Filipinos; Union Publications; 
>United Auto Workers; United Auto Workers, Local 119; United Colors; United
Farm >Workers; United Front Against 
>Fascism; U.S. Anti-Apartheid Newsletter; U.S. China Review; U.S. Comm. for
>Friendship with the GDR; U.S.-Cuba 
>Labor Exchange; U.S.-Grenada Friendship Society; U.S. Out of S.A. Network;
U.S. >Peace Council; U.S.-USSR 
>Friendship Society of S.F.; U.S.A. Movement Banning Apartheid; Univ. of
Calif., >Berkeley; UTU Local 1730; 
>Vanguard Public Foundation; Venceremos Brigade; Vietnam Veterans Action;
>Vietnam News Agency; Villa Zapata
>Workers Comm.; Voice of the Uprising; 
>Washington Office on Africa; WBAI-FM (Pacifica Foundation) New York;
Weatherman >Underground; Witness for S.A.;
>Woman, Inc.; Women Against U.S. Intervention; Women in Black; Women of
Color >Coalition Center; Women of Color
>Resource Project; Women's Intl. League for Peace and Freedom; Workers
World Party; 
>Yes on W Comm.; Young Koreans United; Young Koreans United of S.F. 
>Arab-American Democratic Club; Arab Book Center; Arab People's Coalition;
Arab >Relief Fund of Lebanon; Arab
>Studies Quarterly/Middle East Research and Information Project; Arab-
American >Univ. Graduates; Arabic Book 
>Center; Bethlehem Assn.; Black Muslims; Comm. for a Democratic Palestine;
Comm. >of Correspondence; Council of 
>Arab-American Orgs.; Dem. Front for the Liberation of Palestine;
Democratic >Palestinian Youth; Department of 
>Near Eastern Studies; El Fatah; Family Sponsorship Project; General Union
of >Palestinian Students; 
>Inst. of African-American Studies; Iranian Students Assn.; Iraqi
Intelligence >Officer; Islamic Jihad; Islamic 
>Society of Orange County; Israeli Civil Right Assn.; JIFNA Association;
>Khilafah; Law in the Service of Man; 
>Masjid Al-Islam; Masqid Al-Saff Mosque; Middle East Justice Network;
Muslim >Mutadhakkirun Assn.; Muslim 
>Students Assn.; Muslim Students Union; Nation of Islam; National Assn. of
>Arab-Americans; National Lawyers 
>Guild; November 29th Comm.; Occupied Land Fund; Palestine American Youth;
>Palestine Arab Club; Palestine Arab 
>Fund; Palestine Democratic Youth Org.; Palestine Human Rights Campaign;
>Palestine Solidarity Comm.; Palestine 
>Women's Org.; Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine; Progressive
Muslim >Alliance; Sacred House of 
>Islam; Union of Palestinian Women's Association; ANC A Movement Banning
>Apartheid; African National Congress; 
>All African Peoples Revolutionary Party; All-African Student Conference;
>Alternative Education (RSA) (SACHED); 
>Anglican Church Bd. of Social Responsibility; Anti-Apartheid Comm.; Anti-
>Apartheid L.A.; Apartheid Boycott 
>Campaign; Art Against Apartheid; Artists Against Apartheid; Bay Area Free
S.A. >Movement; Berkeley 
>Anti-Apartheid Network; Canicor Research/S.A. Forum; Democratic Socialists
of >America; Dennis Brutus Defense 
>Comm.; Evangelical Lutheran Church/S.A.; Free Moses Mayekiso Committee;
>Journalist LA Times (in S.A.); 
>National Namibia Concerns; Pan African Congress; Pan Africanist Congress;
>Pan-Africa Congress of Azania; 
>Prairie Fire Organizing Comm.; S.A. Ecumenical Task Force; S.F.
Anti-Apartheid >Comm.; South African Student 
>Congress; Southern Africa Media Center; Univ. of Calif. Divestment Coalition

Here's some keywords to get you started:



Act Now; ACT-UP; Action for Animals; Adrian 17; African Students
Org./S.F. State; African Network; African 
National Reparations Org.; African People's Socialist Party; African
People's Solidarity Comm.; African 
Students Org.; Africans United for Progress; AFSCME Local 3218 (Vice
Pres.); AFSCME Local 3508; Alexandria 
Assoc. of Human Rights Advocacy; All Peoples Congress; Alliance for
Philippine Concerns; Alliance to Stop First 
Strike; Alliance to Stop Police Abuse; Allied Printing Trades
Council; Alternative Information Center; 
Amer-I-Can; American Civil Liberties Union; American Indian Center;
American Indian Movement; American Indian 
Student Org.; American Muslim Museum; Americans for Peace Now;
Anarchist Collective; ANC Meeting; _Ang 
Katipuan_; Anti-Apartheid Comm./AFSCME; Anti-Militarism Comm.;
Anti-Racist Action; April 19th Comm. Against 
Nazis; Arab Baath Socialist Party; Arab Lesbian Network; Armenian
National Comm.; Armenian Peoples Movement; 
Arms Control Research Center; Artists and Videomakers Against the
War; Artists and Writers Out Loud; Artists 
Television Access; Asian Law Caucus; Audio Archives; Author of
Measure J; Babylon Burning; Back Country Action 
Network; Bad Cop/No Donut; Barricada Internacional; Bay Area
Anti-Racist Action; Bay Area Coalition for Our 
Reproductive Rights; Bay Area Friends of the Christic Institute; Bay
Area Jewish Task Force on Cent. Am.; Bay 
Area Natl. Conf. of Black Lawyers; Bay Area Peace Council; Bay Area
Peace Navy; Bay Area Reporter; Bay Area 
Times; Bay Area Vets Against War in Mid. East; Beebee Memorial
C.M.E. Temple; Ben Linder Construction Brigade; 
Big Mountain Native People's Support; Bir Zeit Univ. Instructor;
Black Consciousness Movement of Azania; Black 
Freedom Fighters Coalition; Black Men United for Change; Black
Studies Department/S.F. State; Black United 
Front; Boricuan Popular Army for Puerto Rican Independence; Boycott
Coke; Boycott Shell Comm.; Breakthrough; 
Brigada Antonio Maceo; Brothers of African Descent; Bulletin in
Defense of Marxism; 
Calendar Magazine (Gay); California Voice; Campaign Against
Apartheid; Campus Peace Comm.; Canadians for 
Justice in the Middle East; Capp Street Center; Capp Street
Foundation; Carpenters Local 22; Casa El Salvador; 
Casa El Salvador Mailing List; Center for Constitutional Rights;
Center for Democratic Renewal; Center for 
Investigative Reporting; Center for Middle East Studies; Center for
the Study of the Americas; Cent. Amer. 
Research Institute; Chair: Chicano Studies (U.C. Berkeley); Chop
>Representative Government; Coalition of Black 
Trade Unionists; Commission of Inquiry; Comm. Against Lockheed D-5;
Comm. for Academic Freedom in 
Israeli-Occupied Territories; Comm. for Equality and Justice; Comm.
for Freedom in Argentina; Comm. for Peace 
and Democracy in Iran; Comm. for Perm. Israeli-Palestinian Peace;
CISPES; Cistur; Committee to Free Geronimo 
Pratt; Comm. to Support the Revolution in Peru; Communist Party
U.S.A.; Communist Workers Party; Communist 
Youth Brigade; Community-Labor Coalition for Social & Econ. Justice;
Community United Against Violence; 
Continuing the Peace Dialogue; Contra Watch Newsletter; Copwatch;
Council for the National Interest; Council on 
Foreign Relations; CounterSpy; Covert Action Information Bulletin;
Covert Action; Cuba Resource Group; Cuba 
Information Project; Delta Sigma Beta; Democratic Society of
America; Democratic Workers Party; Dennis Banks 
Defense Comm.; Diablo Valley Peace Center; Direct Action Against
Racism; Doghouse Newsletter; Downside Records; 
Dykes and Gay Emergency Response; Earth Island Institute; East Bay
Women for Peace; El Centro de la Raza; El 
Tecolote; Emergency Coalit. for Palestinian Rights; Emergency
Coalition to End War; Emergency Comm. to Stop 
Flag Amendment; Endorser of Proposition W; Fairness and Accuracy in
Reporting; Fighting Back; Filipino East Bay 
Network; Filipino Organization Comm.; FMLN-FDR West Coast
Representative; Food First; Food Not Bombs; Free S.A. 
Labor Comm.; Freedom for S.A. Refugees Campaign; Freedom for S.A.
Refugees Center; Freedom Rising Africa 
Solidarity Comm.; Freedom Road Socialist Org.; Freedom Socialist
Party; Friends of Nicaragua; Friends of Yesh 
Gvul; Frontline; Frontline Managing Editor; Gay American Indians;
Gay and Lesbian Labor Alliance; Global 
Exchange; Global Options; Green Giant Frozen Food Workers Comm.;
Greenpeace; Group for the Critical Study of 
Colonialism; Guardian; Guatemala News and Information Bureau; Harvey
Milk Club; Hotel and Restaurant Employees 
Local 2; ILWU Local 6, President; ILWU Local 10; INCAR; In These
Times; Independent Grocers Assn.; Info. 
Network Against War and Fascism; Information Services on Latin
America; Instituto del Pueblo; Interfaith Center 
on Corporate Accountability; Interfaith Task Force on Cent. Amer.;
Inter-Hemispheric Education Resource Ctr.; 
Intl. Campaign to Free Geronimo Pratt; Internatl. Comm. Against
Racism; Internatl. Indian Treaty Council; 
Internatl. Jewish Peace Union; Internatl. League for Human Rights/N.
Amer. Chapter; Internatl. Socialist Org.; 
Internationalist Workers Party; Irish National Aid; Irish Northern
Aid; Irish Republican Socialist Comm.; 
Israeli Foreign Affairs; Israelis Against Occupation;
Japanese-American Citizens League; Jewish Comm. on the 
Middle East; John Brown Anti-Klan Comm.; KPOO Radio; KQED-TV Board
of Directors; KUNA; 
Labor Comm. on the Middle East; Labor for Peace; Labor Video; LAGAL;
La Raza Coalition of Berkeley; La Raza 
Unida; Latin American Support Comm.; Lavender Mafia; Lawyers Comm.
on Cent. Amer.; League of Filipino Students; 
Leonard Peltier Alliance Group; Lesbian Agenda for Action; Lesbians
and Gays Against Intervention; Liberation 
Support Movement; Libros Sin Fronteras; Line Of March; L.A.
Coalition Against Intervention in the Middle East; 
L.A. Observer; L.A. Student Coalition; 
MADRE; Malcolm X Grassroots Movement; Mandela Reception Comm.;
Maoist Internationalist Movement; Marazul
Tours; Mariposa Peace Network; Marxist-Leninist Party; Media Review;
Middle East Children's Alliance; Middle 
East Comm. for National Conference of Black Lawyers; Middle East
Peace Network; Midwest Labor Institute; 
Mobilization Support Group; Modern Times Bookstore; Mother Jones;
Movimiento de Agrupacion Popular; Movimiento 
Estudiantil Chicano; 
NABET Local 51/Executive Board; NALC Local 14; National Alliance of
Third World Journalists; NAACP; National 
Call to Action; Natl. Coalition of Black Lesbians and Gays; Natl.
Comm. Against Repressive Legislation; 
National Conference of Black Lawyers; National Forum of S.A.;
National Midweek; National Org. of African 
Students in N. Am.; National Rainbow Coalition; National Response
Comm./NBAU; National Student Cent. Am. Action 
Network; National Student Lobby; National Union of Farmers; Network
of Arab-American Students; Network in 
Solidarity with Chile; New Afrikan Peoples Org.; New Alliance
Newspaper; New Alliance Party; New Americas 
Press; New Jewish Agenda; New Movement in Solidarity with Puerto
Rican Independentistas; Nicaragua Cultural 
Center; Nicaragua Information Center; Nicaragua Information Center
Bulletin; Nicaragua Interfaith Comm. Action; 
Nicaragua Network News; No Apologies/No Regrets; No Business As
Usual; No Justice, No Peace; North Bay 
Anti-Racist Action; North Star; Northern California Ecumenical
Council; Now Magazine, Toronto (Canada); 
Nuremberg Action; Oakland Education Association; O.C. Coalition for
Peace in the Middle East; OCAW; OCAW Local 
8149; October 6 Justice Project; Oregon Philippines Concerns Comm.;
Out of Control Comm.; Outrage; 
Pacifica Foundation; Pakistan Democratic Comm.; Pan African Movement
of the U.S.; Partido Socialista Chileno; 
Partido Socialista Puertorriqueno; Partisan Defense Comm.; Patrice
Lumumba Coalition; Paul Robeson Friendship 
Society; Peace and Conflict Studies; Peace and Freedom Comm.; Peace
and Freedom Party; Peace and Justice Comm. 
- School Board; Peace and Solidarity Alliance; Peace and Solidarity
Comm.; Peace Cafe; Peace Research Center;
People Against Racist Terror; Peoples Anti-War Mobilization; Peoples
Architecture Collective; Peoples Law 
Office; Peoples Park; Peoples Video; Peoples World; Pershing
Plowshares; Philippine Organizing Comm.; 
Philippine Resource Center; Philippines Human Rights Lobby; Pledge
of Resistance; Plumbers and Fitters Local 
393; Portland Cent. Am. Solidarity Comm.; Prison News Service;
Project Impact; Project National Interest; 
Public Eye; 
Queer Nation; Quinn Defense; Radical Film Collective; Radical Women;
Rainbow Coalition; Rainbow Lobby; Refuse 
and Resist; Republic of New Afrika; Revolutionary Books;
Revolutionary Communist Party; Revolutionary Communist 
Youth Brigade; Revolutionary Worker; Revolutionary Workers League;
Richmond Education Assn.; Roots Against War; 
San Fernando Valley Peace Coalition; San Francisco Bay Guardian;
S.F. Coalition of Labor Union Women; S.F. 
Labor Council/AFL-CIO; San Francisco Sentinel; S.F. Univ. Labor
Studies; San Francisco Weekly; S.F. Women for 
Peace; SANE/FREEZE; Sardaraba; Science for Nicaragua; SEIU Local
535; SEIU Local 616; Serbian Unity Congress; 
Shell Boycott Comm.; Simon Wiesenthal Center; Sister City Assn;
Socialist Action; Socialist Party Political 
Org.; Socialist Workers Party; Society of In'Ash El-U.S.A.; SOHRI
Study Group (U.C. Berkeley); Solidarity; S.A. 
Forum; S.A. Freedom Through Education Foundation; S.A. Internatl.
Student Congress; South African Workers Org.; 
South Bay Nicaragua Solidarity Comm.; So. African Liberation Support
Comm.; Southern African Media Center; 
Spartacus Youth League; Spartacist League; Stevens, Hinds & White,
Attorneys; Stop the U.S. War Machine Action 
Network; Student Cltn. Against Apartheid and Racism; Student
Pugwash; Students Against Intervention; Students 
Against Intervention in Cent. Am.; Students for Peace in the Persian
Gulf; SWAPO; SWAPO Meeting; 
Tass News Agency; Teamsters Local 921, S.F. Teamsters for a
Democratic Union; Technica; The Black Scholar; The
Data Center; The Dazen-I Foundation; The Irishman; The Nuclear
Resister; Third World Resources; Toronto
Anti-Intervention Coalition; Trustee, IAM Local 565 (Sunnyvale); 
Ubiquitous; Unified Against Genocide; Union del Barrio; Union of
Democratic Filipinos; Union Publications; 
United Auto Workers; United Auto Workers, Local 119; United Colors;
United Farm Workers; United Front Against 
Fascism; U.S. Anti-Apartheid Newsletter; U.S. China Review; U.S.
Comm. for Friendship with the GDR; U.S.-Cuba 
Labor Exchange; U.S.-Grenada Friendship Society; U.S. Out of S.A.
Network; U.S. Peace Council; U.S.-USSR 
Friendship Society of S.F.; U.S.A. Movement Banning Apartheid; Univ.
of Calif., Berkeley; UTU Local 1730; 
Vanguard Public Foundation; Venceremos Brigade; Vietnam Veterans
Action; Vietnam News Agency; Villa Zapata
Workers Comm.; Voice of the Uprising; 
Washington Office on Africa; WBAI-FM (Pacifica Foundation) New York;
Weatherman Underground; Witness for S.A.;
Woman, Inc.; Women Against U.S. Intervention; Women in Black; Women
of Color Coalition Center; Women of Color
Resource Project; Women's Intl. League for Peace and Freedom;
Workers World Party; 
Yes on W Comm.; Young Koreans United; Young Koreans United of S.F. 
Arab-American Democratic Club; Arab Book Center; Arab People's
Coalition; Arab Relief Fund of Lebanon; Arab
Studies Quarterly/Middle East Research and Information Project;
Arab- American Univ. Graduates; Arabic Book 
Center; Bethlehem Assn.; Black Muslims; Comm. for a Democratic
Palestine; Comm. of Correspondence; Council of 
Arab-American Orgs.; Dem. Front for the Liberation of Palestine;
Democratic Palestinian Youth; Department of 
Near Eastern Studies; El Fatah; Family Sponsorship Project; General
Union of Palestinian Students; 
Inst. of African-American Studies; Iranian Students Assn.; Iraqi
Intelligence Officer; Islamic Jihad; Islamic 
Society of Orange County; Israeli Civil Right Assn.; JIFNA
Association; Khilafah; Law in the Service of Man; 
Masjid Al-Islam; Masqid Al-Saff Mosque; Middle East Justice Network;
Muslim Mutadhakkirun Assn.; Muslim 
Students Assn.; Muslim Students Union; Nation of Islam; National
Assn. of Arab-Americans; National Lawyers 
Guild; November 29th Comm.; Occupied Land Fund; Palestine American
Youth; Palestine Arab Club; Palestine Arab 
Fund; Palestine Democratic Youth Org.; Palestine Human Rights
Campaign; Palestine Solidarity Comm.; Palestine 
Women's Org.; Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine;
Progressive Muslim Alliance; Sacred House of 
Islam; Union of Palestinian Women's Association; ANC A Movement
Banning Apartheid; African National Congress; 
All African Peoples Revolutionary Party; All-African Student
Conference; Alternative Education (RSA) (SACHED); 
Anglican Church Bd. of Social Responsibility; Anti-Apartheid Comm.;
Anti- Apartheid L.A.; Apartheid Boycott 
Campaign; Art Against Apartheid; Artists Against Apartheid; Bay Area
Free S.A. Movement; Berkeley 
Anti-Apartheid Network; Canicor Research/S.A. Forum; Democratic
Socialists of America; Dennis Brutus Defense 
Comm.; Evangelical Lutheran Church/S.A.; Free Moses Mayekiso
Committee; Journalist LA Times (in S.A.); 
National Namibia Concerns; Pan African Congress; Pan Africanist
Congress; Pan-Africa Congress of Azania; 
Prairie Fire Organizing Comm.; S.A. Ecumenical Task Force; S.F.
Anti-Apartheid Comm.; South African Student 
Congress; Southern Africa Media Center; Univ. of Calif. Divestment
Coalition





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Lucky Green" 
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 12:34:58 +0800
To: 
Subject: DigiCash Update, part II
Message-ID: <004d01be28a9$64561620$0401010a@luckylaptop.c2.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



As some of you may be aware of, I am involved with an effort to
acquire DigiCash. Allow me therefore to suggest that now is not a good
time to attempt to purchase a patent license directly from DigiCash.
You would most likely be paying too much.

DigiCash has for months now attempted to find a buyer for the
company's assets. Due to the expectations on the value of the assets, and
differences between this and the offers they've received, the board has
turned down these offers, including the first offer by my group. Ultimately,
the
differences between some of the high expectations the board has, and
the actual offers they are receiving will be worked out between higher
offers and lower expectations. Until then, DigiCash operates on a
post-bankruptcy filing bridge loan. This loan won't last forever.

Ultimately, DigiCash will be sold. But nobody wants to wait forever.
Not you, not me, not the DigiCash board. The faster DigiCash gets sold
to our group, the faster the technology will become available to all
interested parties under low cost (and in many cases free) licensing
terms. Even if DigiCash should now be willing to sell licenses to
generate cash flow or reorganize in some new plan and forestall the
inevitable sales of assets a little bit longer, the current DigiCash
is unlikely to make the licenses available for as low of a cost as our
group will make them available after an acquisition of DigiCash.

We are in a position to offer potentially significant cost
minimization to any prospective licensee of DigiCash IP. With every
additional party committing to our effort, we can reduce the cost per
license. Scott of course would be amiss of his fiduciary duty would he
not attempt to maximize the financial return to DigiCash. We have no
such constraint.   I have a lot of respect for Scott and he is trying
to do what is best for the DigiCash shareholders and debtholders (As
he should).   We on the other hand are more focused on what is best for
the technology, to ensure it is deployed widely and in all it's
various potential uses.

The more serious parties join our effort, the faster will we be able
to make another bid and the faster the DigiCash board will review and
hopefully approve our next offer. Ultimately, everybody will be happy.
The creditors will be happy since they get their money, the current
executive group at DigiCash will be happy to move on having
successfully found a palatable deal, and the licensees will be happy,
since they will be able to obtain the IP and options for support and
technology development instead of being held in limbo with the present
DigiCash situation. And of course the developer community will be
happy, since the patents will be available to all, not just to the few
to which DigiCash might license the patents to improve their
unfortunate cash flow situation. This broad availability will allow
the market to validate the technology. No single player, or even small
group of players, can make eCash a success. Only an aggressive push by
many large, small and medium sized players who are all deploying eCash
and blinded private payment systems can.

This is one of the many reasons our group has the support of several
of the larger banks in the world, banking software/EDI vendors, credit
card clearing houses, personal financial/cryptography software
vendors, global media corporations, and other players that are
required to make eCash and other DigiCash IP derived technologies
ubiquitous.

Feel free to contact DigiCash directly if you must.   We certainly
encourage people who are interested in exclusive ownership of the
DigiCash IP, and are not interested in opening up the patents or
technology to deal directly with them since this is contrary to our
goal.   But if you are interested in any one part, one use or
application or even in all of the parts in a non-exclusive way please
make sure to email me first as I believe it will benefit everyone for
a lot less money.

--Lucky Green 
  I will soon revoke my PGP key 0x375AD924 for
  administrative reasons.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mok-Kong Shen 
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 04:13:03 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: WEAK3-EX -- A Layman's 56-bit Data Encryption Algorithm
Message-ID: <3676B5B3.E37D80C@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



In the previous products of my WEAK series of data encryption 
algorithms I have very strongly exploited the possibility of using 
arbitrarily long keys. Since this conflicts with the recent 
requirement of using 56-bit keys, a new program, WEAK3-EX, has been 
designed specifically for users that can only use 56-bit encryption 
keys. The design draws upon various techniques that have been 
accumulated in the course of the development of the previous WEAK3-E.

Besides employing constant length 56-bit keys, a new feature that is 
introduced in WEAK3-EX is a user choosable scaling factor for the
initialization time of the algorithm. Normally the initialization
time of crypto algorithms are small and is for obvious reasons to be
reduced as far as technically possible. In fact, the initialization
time of almost all known encryption algorithms is negligible compared
to the proper record processing time. Our algorithm, which contains
author's compound PRNG, is however an exception to the rule. For,
depending on the number of the constituent generators of the compound
PRNG used, this can under circumstances indeed attain a non-trivial
value. This is till present a necessary evil of our WEAK3-E which now
fortunately in the special case of key length restriction (with the
obvious accompanying unfavourable strength reduction effect) can be
turned into a virtue of our new WEAK3-EX. In fact, if the (variable) 
parameters to be chosen by the user (in particular the number of rounds)
of our algorithm are adequate, brute force would be the only feasible
method of attack. Now the average time for brute force is equal to the
time of running a single encryption/decryption process multiplied by
one half of the size of the key space. If the initialization time of the
algorithm is increased, the time for brute forcing correspondingly
increases so that through suitable choice of the said scaling factor it
can reach practically infeasible value for analysis without however
on the other hand rendering the total processing time of the user 
(which of course also augments) to amounts entirely inacceptable for 
him. (The multiplying factor of one half of the key space is the 
leverage we exploit here.)

Technically, the scaling factor determines the number of pseudo-random
numbers retrieved from the shuffling buffer (of Bays and Duncan) that
are to be combined into one pseudo-random number through the addition
mod 1 operation (device of Wichmann and Hill) for subsequent
utilization in building up the constituent generators of author's
compound PRNG. The larger the scaling factor, the longer it will take
to build up the compound PRNG.

The multiple-seed standard PRNG employed in WEAK3-E is abandoned in
WEAK3-EX in order to comply with the 56-bit key restriction. In
its place is a standard PRNG that consists of two internal (single-seed)
PRNGs which are activated alternatingly and which each accepts a seed
of 28 bits, totalling 56 bits.

An implementation in Fortran 90 is given in

     http://www.stud.uni-muenchen.de/~mok-kong.shen/#paper13

Both source and a binary executable file for PC can be downloaded via
my main Web page.

I wish to thank CWL and ZFS for suggesting the use of the scaling
factor.

Constructive critiques, comments and suggestions for improvements are
sincerely solicited.

M. K. Shen


P.S. For space and obvious reasons, I plan to remove the code and
binaries of WEAK1, WEAK2, WEAK3 and WEAK3-E from my Web page this
Friday, leaving in future WEAK3-EX the single encryption software
accessible.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bruce Schneier 
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 12:41:48 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: The Fallacy of Cracking Contests
Message-ID: <4.0.2.19981215202538.00a42b90@mail.visi.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




	The Fallacy of Cracking Contests
                      Bruce Schneier


You see them all the time: "Company X offers $1,000,000 to anyone who can
break through their firewall/crack their algorithm/make a fraudulent
transaction using their protocol/do whatever."  These are cracking
contests, and they're supposed to show how strong and secure the target of
the contests are.  The logic goes something like this:  We offered a prize
to break the target, and no one did.  This means that the target is secure.

It doesn't.

Contests are a terrible way to demonstrate security.  A
product/system/protocol/algorithm that has survived a contest unbroken is
not obviously more trustworthy than one that has not been the subject of a
contest.  The best products/systems/protocols/algorithms available today
have not been the subjects of any contests, and probably never will be.
Contests generally don't produce useful data.  There are three basic
reasons why this is so.

1.  The contests are generally unfair.  

Cryptanalysis assumes that the attacker knows everything except the secret.
 He has access to the algorithms and protocols, the source code,
everything.  He knows the ciphertext and the plaintext.  He may even know
something about the key.

And a cryptanalytic result can be anything.  It can be a complete break: a
result that breaks the security in a reasonable amount of time.  It can be
a theoretical break: a result that doesn't work "operationally," but still
shows that the security isn't as good as advertised.  It can be anything in
between.

Most cryptanalysis contests have arbitrary rules.  They define what the
attacker has to work with, and how a successful break looks.  Jaws
Technologies provided a ciphertext file and, without explaining how their
algorithm worked, offered a prize to anyone who could recover the
plaintext.  This isn't how real cryptanalysis works; if no one wins the
contest, it means nothing.

Most contests don't disclose the algorithm.  And since most cryptanalysts
don't have the skills for reverse-engineering (I find it tedious and
boring), they never bother analyzing the systems.  This is why COMP128,
CMEA, ORYX, the Firewire cipher, the DVD cipher, and the Netscape PRNG were
all broken within months of their disclosure (despite the fact that some of
them have been widely deployed for many years); once the algorithm is
revealed, it's easy to see the flaw, but it might take years before someone
bothers to reverse-engineer the algorithm and publish it.  Contests don't
help.

(Of course, the above paragraph does not hold true for the military.  There
are countless examples successful reverse-engineering--VENONA, PURPLE--in
the "real" world.  But the academic world doesn't work that way,
fortunately or unfortunately.)

Unfair contests aren't new.  Back in the mid-1980s, the authors of an
encryption algorithm called FEAL issued a contest.  They provided a
ciphertext file, and offered a prize to the first person to recover the
plaintext.  The algorithm has been repeatedly broken by cryptographers,
through differential and then linear cryptanalysis and by other statistical
attacks.  Everyone agrees that the algorithm was badly flawed.  Still, no
one won the contest.

2.  The analysis is not controlled.

Contests are random tests.  Do ten people, each working 100 hours to win
the contest, count as 1000 hours of analysis?  Or did they all try the same
things?  Are they even competent analysts, or are they just random people
who heard about the contest and wanted to try their luck?  Just because no
one wins a contest doesn't mean the target is secure...it just means that
no one won.

3.  Contest prizes are rarely good incentives.  

Cryptanalysis of an algorithm, protocol, or system can be a lot of work.
People who are good at it are going to do the work for a variety of
reasons--money, prestige, boredom--but trying to win a contest is rarely
one of them.  Contests are viewed in the community with skepticism: most
companies that sponsor contests are not known, and people don't believe
that they will judge the results fairly.  And trying to win a contest is no
sure thing: someone could beat you, leaving you nothing to show for your
efforts.  Cryptanalysts are much better off analyzing systems where they
are being paid for their analysis work, or systems for which they can
publish a paper explaining their results.

Just look at the economics.  Taken at a conservative $125 an hour for a
competent cryptanalyst, a $10K prize pays for two weeks of work, not enough
time to even dig through the code.  A $100K prize might be worth a look,
but reverse-engineering the product is boring and that's still not enough
time to do a thorough job.  A prize of $1M starts to become interesting,
but most companies can't afford to offer that.  And the cryptanalyst has no
guarantee of getting paid: he may not find anything, he may get beaten to
the attack and lose out to someone else, or the company might not even pay.
 Why should a cryptanalyst donate his time (and good name) to the company's
publicity campaign?

Cryptanalysis contests are generally nothing more than a publicity tool.
Sponsoring a contest, even a fair one, is no guarantee that people will
analyze the target.  Surviving a contest is no guarantee that there are no
flaws in the target.

The true measure of trustworthiness is how much analysis has been done, not
whether there was a contest.  And analysis is a slow and painful process.
People trust cryptographic algorithms (DES, RSA), protocols (Kerberos), and
systems (PGP, IPSec) not because of contests, but because all have been
subjected to years (decades, even) of peer review and analysis.  And they
have been analyzed not because of some elusive prize, but because they were
either interesting or widely deployed.  The analysis of the fifteen AES
candidates is going to take several years.  There isn't a prize in the
world that's going to make the best cryptanalysts drop what they're doing
and examine the offerings of Meganet Corporation or RPK Security Inc., two
companies that recently offered cracking prizes.  It's much more
interesting to find flaws in Java, or Windows NT, or cellular telephone
security.

The above three reasons are generalizations.  There are exceptions, but
they are few and far between.  The RSA challenges, both their factoring
challenges and their symmetric brute-force challenges, are fair and good
contests.  These contests are successful not because the prize money is an
incentive to factor numbers or build brute-force cracking machines, but
because researchers are already interested in factoring and brute-force
cracking.  The contests simply provide a spotlight for what was already an
interesting endeavor.  The AES contest, although more a competition than a
cryptanalysis contest, is also fair 

Our Twofish cryptanalysis contest offers a $10K prize for the best negative
comments on Twofish that aren't written by the authors.  There are no
arbitrary definitions of what a winning analysis is.  There is no
ciphertext to break or keys to recover.  We are simply rewarding the most
successful cryptanalysis research result, whatever it may be and however
successful it is (or is not).  Again, the contest is fair because 1) the
algorithm is completely specified, 2) there are no arbitrary definition of
what winning means, and 3) the algorithm is public domain.

Contests, if implemented correctly, can provide useful information and
reward particular areas of research.  But they are not useful metrics to
judge security.  I can offer $10K to the first person who successfully
breaks into my home and steals a book off my shelf.  If no one does so
before the contest ends, that doesn't mean my home is secure.  Maybe no one
with any burgling ability heard about my contest.  Maybe they were too busy
doing other things.  Maybe they weren't able to break into my home, but
they figured out how to forge the real-estate title to put the property in
their name.  Maybe they did break into my home, but took a look around and
decided to come back when there was something more valuable than a $10,000
prize at stake.  The contest proved nothing.

Gene Spafford wrote against hacking contests.
http://www.itd.nrl.navy.mil/ITD/5540/ieee/cipher/old-issues/issue9602

Matt Blaze has too, but I can't find a good URL.


**********************************************************************
Bruce Schneier, President, Counterpane Systems     Phone: 612-823-1098
101 E Minnehaha Parkway, Minneapolis, MN  55419      Fax: 612-823-1590
           Free crypto newsletter.  See:  http://www.counterpane.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ben Laurie 
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 05:56:02 +0800
To: Mok-Kong Shen 
Subject: Re: WEAK3-EX -- A Layman's 56-bit Data Encryption Algorithm
In-Reply-To: <3676B5B3.E37D80C@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
Message-ID: <3676CD09.27818DBE@algroup.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Mok-Kong Shen wrote:
> P.S. For space and obvious reasons, I plan to remove the code and
> binaries of WEAK1, WEAK2, WEAK3 and WEAK3-E from my Web page this
> Friday, leaving in future WEAK3-EX the single encryption software
> accessible.

Hmm. The "obvious reasons" being one or more of the following:

a) You think people shouldn't be allowed strong crypto
b) You think the US shouldn't have to go to the trouble of getting laws
changed, we should just obey their whims voluntarily
c) You are on the NSA's payroll

Cheers,

Ben.

-- 
Ben Laurie            |Phone: +44 (181) 735 0686| Apache Group member
Freelance Consultant  |Fax:   +44 (181) 735 0689|http://www.apache.org/
and Technical Director|Email: ben@algroup.co.uk |
A.L. Digital Ltd,     |Apache-SSL author     http://www.apache-ssl.org/
London, England.      |"Apache: TDG" http://www.ora.com/catalog/apache/




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Frederick Burroughs 
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 10:45:35 +0800
To: Cypherpunks 
Subject: Re: HAS The Revolution Died??
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <36771611.ADDE6C67@shentel.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





HyperReal-Anon wrote:

>  "I CANT PARTICIPATE IN THE REVOLUTION BECAUSE I DIDNT
>   GET ENOUGH NOTICE OR ITS TOO INCONVENIENT OR THEY
>   ARE USING LEFTIST PROTEST TECHNIQUES" ...

As was diagnosed in the case of Richard M. Nixon, these are the tragic
and irreversible symptoms of terminal adult syndrome. Infected are
pasture bound.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 11:34:22 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Distributed Programming with DIPC (fwd)
Message-ID: <199812160312.VAA10007@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:
>From owner-sparclinux-outgoing@vger.rutgers.edu Tue Dec 15 20:47:43 1998
Date: 	Tue, 15 Dec 1998 17:09:40 -0600 (CST)
From: Kamran Karimi 
To: sparclinux@vger.rutgers.edu
Subject: Distributed Programming with DIPC
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
X-Orcpt: rfc822;sparclinux@vger.rutgers.edu
Sender: owner-sparclinux@vger.rutgers.edu
Precedence: bulk
X-Loop: majordomo@vger.rutgers.edu

To people interested in distributed programming and clustering under Linux,

 This is to introduce DIPC (Distributed Inter-Process Communication). 
DIPC is a software-only solution for very easy distributed programming under 
the Linux operating system. Here developers design their applications 
as a group of processes, each possibly running on a different Linux computer, 
and then use DIPC to _transparently_ exchange data between them. The main 
objective of the DIPC project is to make distributed programming as much like 
"normal" programming as possible.

 DIPC hides itself behind UNIX System V's IPC mechanisms, consisting of 
Semaphores, Messages, and Shared Memories, and makes them work over a network. 
This means that DIPC offers, among other things, Transparent Distributed 
Shared Memory (DSM) with strict consistency: Processes can read from and 
write to the shared memory with no need for any explicit synchronization!
This makes DIPC very different from systems like PVM or MPI. The source code 
of a DIPC program is nearly identical to a normal UNIX program using System V 
IPC. Actually, a DIPC program can even run in a Linux computer with no DIPC 
support; no need for recompilation. System V IPC is widely available in 
UNIX variants, and is very well documented, meaning that developers may 
already know the programming interface, or they can learn it very easily, 
confident that the usefulness of the newly learned material is not tied to 
the availability of DIPC. This is in sharp contrast to most other distributed 
programming systems.

 Using a mainly "shared-memory" programming interface means that the same 
distributed application can also run on a multi-processor Linux machine
at "full speed"

 DIPC modifies the Linux kerenl in order to offer its excellent degree of 
transparency. There are no needs for any link libraries, and it can be 
used from any programming language that allows access to the OS calls.
The hardware can consist of a single Linux machine, or a cluster of computers 
connected to each other by a TCP/IP network. DIPC has been tested on 
inter-continental WANs and is a heterogeneous system, as it can run on 
Linux/i386 and Linux/m68k, with both versions being able to talk to each
other. (volunteers for porting DIPC to other CPU families are welcome).

 People intersted in distributed systems can easily and safely try DIPC. After 
patching a standard Linux kernel, DIPC becomes a configuration option 
(make config), and can be left out at compile time if desired. When DIPC is 
compiled in, it can be turned off any time with no need for a reboot.

 For more more information about DIPC, visit http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc . 
You can download the package (which includes the sources and the 
documentation) from the web page, or from ftp://wallybox.cei.net/pub/dipc . 
A mailing list devoted to discussions about DIPC is addressed at
linux-dipc@wallybox.cei.net . Feel free to send your comments and questions
here. To view the previous posts to DIPC's mailing list target your browser 
at http://wallybox.cei.net/dipc/ml-archive .

-Kamran Karimi
-
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe sparclinux" in
the body of the message to majordomo@vger.rutgers.edu




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Burnes - Denver 
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:14:26 +0800
To: Lucky Green 
Subject: Re: DigiCash Update, part II
In-Reply-To: <004d01be28a9$64561620$0401010a@luckylaptop.c2.net>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Tue, 15 Dec 1998, Lucky Green wrote:

> Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 20:06:01 -0800
> From: Lucky Green 
> To: dbs@philodox.com, "E$@Vmeng. Com" ,
>     "Cryptography@C2. Net" 
> Cc: cypherpunks@algebra.com
> Subject: DigiCash Update, part II
> 
> As some of you may be aware of, I am involved with an effort to
> acquire DigiCash. Allow me therefore to suggest that now is not a good

Exellent news, Lucky!

Good luck in your negotiations and a beneficial outcome for
business and freedom.

happy holidays,

jim burnes




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Eric Cordian 
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:25:28 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: The Fallacy of Cracking Contests
In-Reply-To: <4.0.2.19981215202538.00a42b90@mail.visi.com>
Message-ID: <199812160451.WAA09943@wire.insync.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Bruce Schneier writes:
 
 > 3.  Contest prizes are rarely good incentives.
 
          ...
 
> Just look at the economics.  Taken at a conservative $125 an hour for
> a competent cryptanalyst, a $10K prize pays for two weeks of work,
> not enough time to even dig through the code.  A $100K prize might be
> worth a look, but reverse-engineering the product is boring and that's
> still not enough time to do a thorough job.  A prize of $1M starts to
> become interesting, but most companies can't afford to offer that.
 
Another point to consider is that a company sponsoring a contest,
particularly one which involves one of its products, has a great
interest in measuring the state of existing relevant art, and almost
no interest at all in directly funding new research leading to the
destruction of its cipher.
 
Most such contests have very carefully structured rules, and prizes
that are not too large, to sample what current tools and algorithms
can do, without single-handedly funding expeditions into unexplored
territory.
 
Factoring contests are a good example of this, where you get a few
thousand dollars for breaking something slightly larger than the last
thing broken, rather than $10 million for inventing the singing and
dancing factoring algorithm of the future, and breaking the 500
decimal digit key.
 
> I can offer $10K to the first person who successfully breaks into my
> home and steals a book off my shelf.  If no one does so before the
> contest ends, that doesn't mean my home is secure.  Maybe no one with
> any burgling ability heard about my contest.  Maybe they were too busy
> doing other things.  Maybe they weren't able to break into my home,
> but they figured out how to forge the real-estate title to put the
> property in their name.  Maybe they did break into my home, but took a
> look around and decided to come back when there was something more
> valuable than a $10,000 prize at stake.  The contest proved nothing.
 
Exactly.  Contests do nothing in the absence of prior academic
interest in the problem, and even then only serve to spotlight and
highlight what already exists.  Contests do not drive research, nor do
they prove ciphers secure.
 
Still, they're fun.

--  
Eric Michael Cordian 0+
O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division
"Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: EquiAly2@aol.com
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:01:56 +0800
Subject: !! Wanted Home Product Assemblers !!
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



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again.*****

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 07:47:10 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: ARMCHAIR Commando List(Cypherpunks@cyberpass.net)
Message-ID: <199812152252.XAA26125@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



 "I CANT PARTICIPATE IN THE REVOLUTION BECAUSE I DIDNT
  GET ENOUGH NOTICE OR ITS TOO INCONVENIENT OR THEY
  ARE USING LEFTIST PROTEST TECHNIQUES"
  EXPORTING PGP WITHIN MINUTES OF ITS RELEASE
  NOW THAT WOULD IMPRESS ME...
  (BEEN THERE DONE THAT!)
   NOW I am trying to shake the apathy from all of you..
   Its so much easier to talk about revolution than
   participating or contributing...
   Talking about revolution does NOT make it happen
   magically..
  
   I suspect the revolution will die given the above
   
   anon

 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: James Morris 
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 22:25:37 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Steganography ?
In-Reply-To: <259a896938e4522ccd3d711a4d41f7c9@anonymous>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Tue, 15 Dec 1998, Mixmaster wrote:

> There used to be a web site called "Throwing Sand into the All-Seeing Eye" 
> which listed a long list of possible NSA-snooper keywords, such as military 
> classifications and code words that could be sent for fun across the 
> Internet for sole purpose of being flagged by the NSA.

I imagine they(tm) would have countermeasures for this kind of thing,
given that once they catch a keyword, they know it's source, and have some
idea of the kinds of patterns which are likely to be real communications. 

The Web site probably went straight into a junk filter, which would make
it an ideal place to post your secrets from then on :-)

- James.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: pgut001@cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 20:26:25 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Forced DNA Collection
Message-ID: <91372205409340@cs26.cs.auckland.ac.nz>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Eric Cordian  writes:
 
>Top Story on AP...
>
>NEW YORK (AP) -- Despite objections from civil libertarians, the city's
>police  commissioner proposed Monday to take a DNA sample along with the
>fingerprints  of everyone arrested.
> 
>Commissioner Howard Safir said the test would solve crimes and help curb 
>repeat offenders. ``The innocents have nothing to fear ... only if you are 
>guilty should you worry about DNA testing,'' he said.
 
The Commissioner messed up the quote, it's actually:
 
  "I am returning to punish the guilty; the innocent have nothing to fear"
   - Lucius Cornelius Sulla, 90BC, just before he massacred the innocent en 
     masse.
 
Peter.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bob@usa.net
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 19:36:28 +0800
To: 
Subject: Easy Money $$  <>  Stuffing Envelopes:  $3 Per Envelope, Guaranteed!
Message-ID: <199812161048.CAA22493@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: HyperReal-Anon 
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 08:45:00 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: HAS The Revolution Died??
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



 "I CANT PARTICIPATE IN THE REVOLUTION BECAUSE I DIDNT
  GET ENOUGH NOTICE OR ITS TOO INCONVENIENT OR THEY
  ARE USING LEFTIST PROTEST TECHNIQUES"
  EXPORTING PGP WITHIN MINUTES OF ITS RELEASE
  NOW THAT WOULD IMPRESS ME...
  (BEEN THERE DONE THAT!)
   NOW I am trying to shake the apathy from all of you..
   Its so much easier to talk about revolution than
   participating or contributing...
   Talking about revolution does NOT make it happen
   magically..
  
   I suspect the revolution will die given the above
   
   anon

 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "John Kelsey" 
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 16:31:11 +0800
To: 
Subject: Re: Anyone Striking?
Message-ID: <199812160741.BAA26791@email.plnet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> From: Perry E. Metzger 
> To: James Glave 
> Cc: Robert Hettinga ; cypherpunks@toad.com; cryptography@c2.net; dcsb@ai.mit.edu
> Subject: Re: Anyone Striking? 
> Date: Monday, December 14, 1998 10:06 AM
 
> James Glave writes:
> > Anyone participating in the strike today? I'd like to possibly visit this
> > with a news story...
> 
> I find it exceptionally unlikely that many people are participating in
> this. Whomever called the thing was not thinking very clearly. You
> need at least several weeks notice for such a thing to work, and the
> two or three days notice (at most) that was given was way too small. A
> strike of this nature might work, but only if someone with political
> sense were organizing it.

What would be the usefulness of this, anyway?  Most of us who know and care about this 
issue are already working in the field of cryptography or computer security at some
level--how will slowing our projects down by a day help our cause?  How will refusing
to design strong systems that use cryptography send a message to the government that
their meddling won't keep us from designing such systems?  

> Perry

--John Kelsey, kelsey@counterpane.com / kelsey@plnet.net
NEW PGP print =  5D91 6F57 2646 83F9 6D7F 9C87 886D 88AF




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:35:45 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: RE: DoS considered harmful [WAS: RE: Anyone striking?]
Message-ID: <199812160609.HAA31572@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Trei, Peter [mailto:ptrei@securitydynamics.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 1998 11:23 AM
> To: cypherpunks@toad.com; cryptography@c2.net; dcsb@ai.mit.edu
> Cc: Trei, Peter
> Subject: DoS considered harmful [WAS: RE: Anyone striking?]
> 
> Someone using the name Carlos Gomes [GomesC@netsolve.net] 
> wrote:
> 
> > [...]
> > There were several ideas floating around: a) detach
> > from the net and from work b) create a signed letter of
> > disapproval published to appropriate orgs c) _short_
> > loosely organized burst of DoS against select online
> > targets from widely distributed sources.
> 
> > All valid forms of protests (when properly organized
> > and executed) all with varying forms of impact and
> > visibility.  For the record, I think option c) could be
> > a valid and effective form of active protest.  It is a
> > form which has not been used in support of the cpunks'
> > agenda (or many agenda's for that matter) to date and
> > one that merits a review.
> > [...]
> 
> > regards,
> > C.G.
> 
> A DoS (Denial of Service) action is a really, really,
> really bad idea.
> 
> It's both illegal and counterproductive. It's the sort
> of thing I would expect to hear from an 'agent
> provocateur' bent on discrediting critics of
> government policy, by casting them as malicous hackers.
> 
> We went through this once before. Back when I was
> getting the DES challenges going, some one proposed
> that the target should be a live bank transaction (I
> think in Germany). I argued strenuously against such a
> move, and in favor of a specifically created target
> This goal was fullfilled when I got RSA to set up and
> sponsor the Symmetric Key Challenges.
[deletia]

Hmm... I agree that Peter's representation of my suggestion would not be a
good idea nor would it be productive-- especially in the long run.  And his
interpretation of my writing was correct given the current understanding of
what a DoS is.  So let me flesh out a bit what I think option c) above
should have said.

In my first mail to the list on the strike subject I offered a couple
references outlining some possible forms of electronic civil disobedience
(ECD).  The analogy used in those texts is to a "sit in" or, as explained in
other references not mentioned, the activity can be looked at as a large
scale letter writing campaign like the ones organized by Amnesty
International which are aimed at prison officials holding political
dissidents or political prisoners.  The idea is to maximize awareness (to
the targets as well as mass media) of the protest while minimizing the
likelyhood of severe litigation or other punitive action against those
involved in the protest.  It's basically an indismissible show of dissent in
large numbers aimed directly at the source of the dissent.

As commonly understood, a DoS (Denial of Service) attack would entail an
undisclosed group of hackers and script kiddies attempting to knock out a
server/site for as long as possible-- which usually requires that the group
be destructive and remaining as anonymous and untrackable as possible.  This
was _not_ what I had in mind as option c).

In an effective ECD campaign you would want to publicize what your agenda is
including a listing of possible spokespersons/leaders for negotiation to
both the target and the media.  You would also want to control the extent of
the Disruption of Service (instead of Denial of Service) to somewhere
between more than barely being noticed to less than breaking any laws.

Example: A public web page is setup with information on the next "sit in" or
"log writing campaign" containing the agenda behind the protest, contact
persons for more information, target site with explanation of choice, start
time and stop time.  Let's further that the cause is able to get a couple
hundred or couple thousand supporters to, for example, repeatedly telnet to
port 80 on the remote server during a specific 5 minute window and type in:

GET I do not support your sites views on such and such see
www.stop_this_now.org for details.

Given the right level of logging on the server you'd quickly fill up the
target's logs with a record of the number of people (or actually computers)
that don't agree with the target's agenda.  In Trei's last copied paragraph
he mentioned setting up a dedicated target for the DES challenge.  I think a
similar scenario would also be an effective tool for ECD for testing support
as well as being an alternate site since some target sites could be ominious
enough to keep supporters at bay and a guinea pig site with full logging
could be used to gather data to present to the media directly instead of to
the media through a target site.

I'd rather not get into a lengthy arguement about the legality of the above
or whether it can be implemented since judging from the result of some of
the last calls to protest within this group I don't think this type of
action will see a real implementation anytime soon so it's legality and
feasibility would be mostly speculation IMHO.  I just wanted to clarify what
I had in mind as option c) in the original mailing.

It's late and there's a bunch of good jazz happening the next two nights at
the Mercury Lounge in downtown Austin.  The crypto revolution will have to
wait for a less festive time of year :-)...

waves,
C.G. 

--
the above are my views-- and possibly my views alone :-(




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Della7079@aol.com
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 21:31:24 +0800
Subject: How to Win!!
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 22:01:04 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: Skipjack KEA Errata
Message-ID: <199812161333.IAA31332@camel8.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Thanks to Lewis McCarthy some 20 transcription errors have been
corrected in the Skipjack Key Exchange Algorithm test vectors,
a summary of which is offered at:

   http://jya.com/kea-errata.htm

Original transcriptions of the Skipjack spec have been updated:

Matt Curtin's:

   http://www.interhack.net/pubs/skipjack-kea.tgz (Archive of it all)
   http://www.interhack.net/pubs/skipjack-kea.ps (Postscript)
   http://www.interhack.net/pubs/skipjack-kea.tex (LaTeX source)

JYA's:

   http://jya.com/skipjack-spec.htm
   http://jya.com/skipjack-spec.zip (same, zipped)








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Frederick Burroughs 
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 22:05:49 +0800
To: Cypherpunks 
Subject: Re: NSA Electronic Sheriff
In-Reply-To: <199812160043.TAA18739@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3677B42A.1CF7FF8D@shentel.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





John Young wrote:

> >From a new report:
>
> "Cybercrime, Cyberterrrorism, Cyberwarfare"
>
> Tomorrow's frontline commanders will be drawn from
> the ranks of computer wizards. The sandal culture is
> challenging the wingtips. The National Security Agency's
> (NSA) new electronic sheriff, responsible for protecting
> NSA's ground stations, is a 23-year-old GS-14.

Dialog at a recent poker game at a table in the back of the NSA Saloon:

"Rumor has it there's some bad hombres ridin' into town. We're gonna
need a sheriff. Quick, pin a star on that kid over there, yeah him, the
idiot wearin' sandals. He'll stand 'em off in the street, we'll be
waitin' on the roofs."

"Hey sweetcheeks, another round for the boys."




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Sunder 
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 22:55:02 +0800
To: Jay Holovacs 
Subject: Re: Throwing Sand into the All-Seeing Eye (further ideas)
In-Reply-To: <259a896938e4522ccd3d711a4d41f7c9@anonymous>
Message-ID: <3677BC26.20F121D5@brainlink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jay Holovacs wrote:
> 
> At 08:25 AM 12/15/98 -0600, mib wrote:
> >
> >On Tue, Dec 15, 1998 at 04:02:00AM -0800, Mixmaster wrote:
> >> There used to be a web site called "Throwing Sand into the All-Seeing Eye"
> >> which listed a long list of possible NSA-snooper keywords, such as
> military
> >> classifications and code words that could be sent for fun across the
> >> Internet for sole purpose of being flagged by the NSA.
> >
> 
> Here are some more suggestions (I didn't make this list; all of these
> supposedly were on watch actual lists of different types----"thanks" to the
> police & spook organizations for doing the research)
 

One of the things to consider in order to be successful in this at any level is
that we need to automate some of the features of including such keywords in
emails.  I'm sure the NSA has lovely filtering capabilities in Echelon to
remove the chaff emails.  (Think of the way spam gets filtered based on
keywords.)

Certainly if we use the same tag in every email, they can filter us out by the
email address.  This does have a nice unexpected side effect: being labeled a
kook makes for the NSA not wanting to watch your posts, and then you would have
a bit more privacy, however, don't count on this: far more likely is that they
do archive everything and then use a smart search engine.

We could rotate the tags around, but if we send too many of these, they can
throw you into the above category.

You could post them anonymously, which makes it much harder for them catalog,
so they will be forced to look at the traffic, when and if, they need to search
it.

You could have some program randomly alter your email address, but patterns
would be found to filter you out that way.

We could also use remailers to create lots of cover traffic going to
/dev/null.  This would be far more interesting, especially if we add some sort
of poetry writer that spits out spook talk and update it occasionally with
current event keywords.  Then again, they could filter the messages that go to
/dev/null, or find patterns in the spook poetry generators...  

We are of course talking about doing something as evil as spamming in that it
does generate lots of traffic and eats up lots of bandwidth.  This has the side
effect of wasting lots of our resources and little of the NSA's.  There is the
obvious problem of how many people are willing to do such a thing.  If say, ten
or twenty of us start running such spookbots, it will eat lots of our
resources, but few of theirs.  If lots and lots of us run spookbots, it might
create a small dent in Echelon which they'll simply address by adding more
hardware.  (Keep in mind that the figure of their yearly budget is several
billion, for which you pay for in the form of taxes.  Comparatively to one
person, they have what approaches infinitely greater funds.  Comparatively to
the entire country, they don't, but the entire country won't join such an
effort.)

Unless there is a large scale effort, we'd be doing nothing more than the
WASSENAAR protest.  Sure, some would say, we'd be calling undue attention to
ourselves, but if you're on this list, or receiving it, you're already calling
undue attention to yourself.  If Echelon is indeed as large as it is reported
to be, the mere reading of Cypherpunks is enough to flag you.

Anyway, anyone have any ideas to further build on this?



-- 
----------------------------  Kaos Keraunos Kybernetos  -------------------
 + ^ +        Sunder          "The   real aim  of current policy is to /|\
  \|/    sunder@sunder.net    ensure the continued effectiveness of   /\|/\
<--*--> ALLOW FREE EXPORT OF  US information warfare assets against   \/|\/
  /|\   STRONG CRYPTOGRAPHY!  individuals,businesses and governments   \|/
 + v +  PROTEST WASSENAAR!!!  in Europe and elsewhere"  -- Ross Anderson
------------------------------ http://www.sunder.net ----------------------

RESTRICTED DATA - This material contains RESTRICTED DATA as defined in
the Atomic Energy Act of 1954. Unauthorized disclosure subject to 
administrative and criminal sanctions.  NOFORN ORCON WNINTEL SIOP-ESI CNWDI




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Sunder 
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 22:43:20 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: Re: DARPA's Active Network page (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199812160006.SAA09381@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <3677BD28.6465E8F0@brainlink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate wrote:
> 
> Forwarded message:
> 
> > Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 17:50:56 -0500
> > From: Robert Hettinga 
> > Subject: DARPA's Active Network page
> 
> > I saw an article on this in InfoWorld. NAI/TIS and DARPA talking about
> > putting self-switching packets into the network. I don't see this as too
> > far off from packets purchasing their passage across the network with
> > micromoney of some kind.
> 
> How does the packet know what is a good price or a bad price as it makes
> each hop? Whose processor is it using to run its program to evaluate the
> costs? Who pays for that processor cost on a node that isn't selected? Who
> has access to the audit trail? How does a reliable copy get back to the
> originator? How does it do this in an anonymous network?

Joy, just what we needed, a twist on the old source-routing packets.  A bad
idea within a bad idea. :(  Gee, how many of your routers allow source routed
packets these days?

To add to the above question, how big will the over head of the packets be?
How will the routers know that the packets aren't forged and that they contain
real micromoney and not already spent micromoney (possibly for the purposes of
denial of service attacks or other hacking attempts)?  
How will they do this in real time and not incur huge propagation delays?


IMHO, This has the words "Stupid Idea" written all over it.


-- 
----------------------------  Kaos Keraunos Kybernetos  -------------------
 + ^ +        Sunder          "The   real aim  of current policy is to /|\
  \|/    sunder@sunder.net    ensure the continued effectiveness of   /\|/\
<--*--> ALLOW FREE EXPORT OF  US information warfare assets against   \/|\/
  /|\   STRONG CRYPTOGRAPHY!  individuals,businesses and governments   \|/
 + v +  PROTEST WASSENAAR!!!  in Europe and elsewhere"  -- Ross Anderson
------------------------------ http://www.sunder.net ----------------------

RESTRICTED DATA - This material contains RESTRICTED DATA as defined in
the Atomic Energy Act of 1954. Unauthorized disclosure subject to 
administrative and criminal sanctions.  NOFORN ORCON WNINTEL SIOP-ESI CNWDI




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mok-Kong Shen 
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 16:33:49 +0800
To: Ben Laurie 
Subject: Re: WEAK3-EX -- A Layman's 56-bit Data Encryption Algorithm
In-Reply-To: <3676B5B3.E37D80C@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
Message-ID: <367769EF.251F7294@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Ben Laurie wrote:
> 
> Mok-Kong Shen wrote:
> > P.S. For space and obvious reasons, I plan to remove the code and
> > binaries of WEAK1, WEAK2, WEAK3 and WEAK3-E from my Web page this
> > Friday, leaving in future WEAK3-EX the single encryption software
> > accessible.
> 
> Hmm. The "obvious reasons" being one or more of the following:
> 
> a) You think people shouldn't be allowed strong crypto
> b) You think the US shouldn't have to go to the trouble of getting laws
> changed, we should just obey their whims voluntarily
> c) You are on the NSA's payroll

I didn't want to incur two matters (hence my way of formulation):

1. The law would sometime be effective in my country without my
   immediately noticing it and I'll get trobles.

2. I am not sure that my stuff is really strong. Saying that I
   have to delete because it is strong is claiming something
   at least very subjectively and anyway not scientific.

Do you understand now?

M. K. Shen




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: pgut001@cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 05:58:51 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: NZ government to legalise black bag jobs
Message-ID: <91375565311002@cs26.cs.auckland.ac.nz>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



15 December 1998
GOVERNMENT TO INTRODUCE AMENDMENT TO NZSIS LEGISLATION
 
The Government will introduce an amendment to legislation this week covering 
the operations of the New Zealand Security Intelligence Service, and will also 
seek to appeal part of the Choudry decision of the Court of Appeal, Prime 
Minister Jenny Shipley said today.
 
"In Mr Choudry's case, the Court of Appeal pointed out the need for Parliament 
to provide express authority for the NZSIS to enter private premises, without 
permission, to intercept communications."
 
"It is vital that the NZSIS is able to carry out its functions properly in 
gathering intelligence on security threats to New Zealand. In some rare 
instances, this may require covert entry to private property, which the 
amendment to the legislation will allow.  The existing law had been presumed 
to allow this to occur.  The Court has said if this is the intention, it 
should be made explicit as is the case in Canada, the United Kingdom and 
Australia."
 
[...]
 
Mrs Shipley said the Government would also seek leave to appeal against one 
aspect of the Court of Appeal's decision in Mr Choudry's case.  The issue 
concerns the procedure the Court should follow when the Government asserts it 
is necessary, in the course of litigation against the Crown, to withhold from 
the Court, and other parties, access to information, in order to protect 
national security interests.
 
Commentary:
 
Choudry was a protestor against the 1994 APEC meeting held in Auckland (a 
bunch of foreign politicians turned up to talk for a week, shutting down the 
city centre in a way that wasn't equalled until Mercury Energy earlier this 
year).  At the time the SIS's mandate had been widened to include "economic 
security", bringing the APEC meeting into its sphere of interest.  As part of 
the APEC brouhaha, they carried out a black bag job on Choudry and got caught, 
causing the government some embarassment.  The current bill, rushed through 
under urgency just before parliament shuts down (which means it gets 
rubberstamped with no scrutiny or debate), would legalise these things in the 
future, just in time for the next big politicians powwow next year (which has 
already lead to the army invading the university as part of some training 
exercise which involved a simulated search for dissidents).
 
The second part is more worrying, what it'll do is remove any provision for 
judicial review of dubious actions by the government by allowing them to claim 
national security concerns as a blanket excuse for whatever they do.  
Certainly in the Choudry case the real concern was job security, not national 
security.
 
Peter.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Leif Ericksen 
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 01:29:26 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Norstar Question
Message-ID: <3677DA8D.878B2E90@wwa.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



This may be slightly off the topic here sorry...   :(


Ok for those of you that are actually reading this message I have a
question about a  Small Office Norstart Switch/voice mail system.


I have recently taken the task of doing phone admin wehre I work and we
use a Norstar system.  I am waiting on tech support/help folk to get
back to me and wanted to see if I can get the system working before they
call.

Here is the problem.

	I do Feature 983 to get to the admin section and I type in the password
for some reason the password is not working.  I tried a fewother
combinations to see if it was given some other password, as well I
checked the defaults and I have had NO luck getting into the admin
section.  Thus my question....

	Is there a back door way ito the system that anybody on the net knows
of?


If so plese send it to me.   If it means actually having access to the
device I belive it is in a closet that I can get to with the aid of some
other folk here that have the key.



			Thank you,


			Leif Ericksen.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 03:17:28 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Nitwits
In-Reply-To: <19981216164043.5754.rocketmail@send103.yahoomail.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 8:40 AM -0800 12/16/98, Joel O'Connor wrote:

>It only took one to turn India around.  Ghandi nearly starved to
>death, used nothing but passifism and won the race man.  You can't
>discredit the labors of a few, wonderous things can happen when 3
>people bond together for a common cause.  To much negativity in this
>world already, I don't wish to add to it.  We've got nothing left but
>hope and what a large flame a small spark can ignite.


Mailing lists and news groups are filling up with nitwits like this character.

Nitwits who can't compose coherent thoughts, nitwits who can't even put
sentences together without major grammar and spelling erros, and nitwits
who have nothing to say.

Some are from Yahoo, some from MyDejaNews (tm), some from HotMail. And then
there are the unilluminati from WebTV and AOL.

A lot of people need to be taken out and shot. Or at least globally killfiled.

--Tim May

Y2K -- LMGALMAO -- Loading my guns and laughing my ass off
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Gillogly 
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 03:34:17 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Network Associates' KRA Partner status
Message-ID: <3677FD28.F7BAB298@acm.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Bruce Schneier said in the "News" section of Crypto-Gram:
>> Okay, I finally got the story right about Network Associates Inc. and the
>> Key Recovery Alliance.  (Last month I pointed to a Wired News story that
>> they quietly rejoined.)  The story is wrong.  They never left the KRA.
>> Since its inception, Trusted Information Systems was a big mover and shaker
>> in the KRA.  When NAI bought TIS in May 1998, TIS's membership transferred
>> to NAI.  NAI resigned the leadership posts that TIS had held in the
>> Alliance and stopped attending its meetings, but never left the KRA.  So,
>> NAI is a member of the KRA, and has been since it bought TIS.
>> http://www.wired.com/news/print_version/technology/story/16219.html

Someone responded:
> When NAI bought PGP, in late 1997, Phil Zimmermann found out about NAI's
> membership, and he was able to persuade management to withdraw from
> the KRA.  This is why it is wrong to say that NAI never left the KRA.
> See http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,17112,00.html.

I remember hearing this at the time.  The cited article (8 Dec 1997) has
supporting quotes from NAI's Gene Hodges.  In addition, Dave Del Torto
wrote to the secretary of KRA last month and got a response from
secretariat staffer Michael LoBue on 20 Nov 1998 that addresses this
point in passing:

    Indeed, some of this current 'public debate' about NAI's
    relationship with the KRA goes back to their public statement
    that they 'withdrew' from the organization. The fact of the matter
    is that they simply did not choose to become an actual member at the
    time the organization was formally constituted. When it was reported
    that they withdrew, there was in fact no entity from which to withdraw.

While the actual status of KRA is interesting, the relevant point is
that NAI did indeed say they were withdrawing, and they did withdraw
from participation in the nascent organization.

> NAI bought TIS a few months later.  TIS was a member and in fact a leading
> member of the KRA.  By purchasing TIS, NAI inherited its membership in
> the KRA, and so NAI was once again a member.

It was more explicit than this.  Michael LoBue said further:

    Concerning Network Associates membership in the KRA, in response to your
    question I have verified that our files contain an executed Membership
    Agreement for Network Associates (dated July 2, 1998), as well as a properly
    completed Application for Membership of that same date. 

This is not just accepting the existing membership status of TIS.  It's
reversing NAI's non-membership status and explicitly joining.

DDT's message and KRA's response were posted to several lists on 22 Nov 1998.

Somebody'd better write this all in a physical book before the wrong version
gets scribbled into history.  Webbage is nice, but is regrettably transient.
-- 
	Jim Gillogly
	26 Foreyule S.R. 1998, 18:06
	12.19.5.13.19, 5 Cauac 12 Mac, Ninth Lord of Night




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: mib 
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 01:29:20 +0800
To: "Joel O'Connor" 
Subject: Re: I must admit. . .
In-Reply-To: <19981216144244.7920.rocketmail@send101.yahoomail.com>
Message-ID: <19981216103440.A17503@io.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Wed, Dec 16, 1998 at 02:42:44PM +0000, Joel O'Connor wrote:
> Cypherpunks write code?  Make people use it. . .

Vee have vays...

- d.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 18:41:49 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: RE: DoS considered harmful [WAS: RE: Anyone striking?]
Message-ID: <199812160955.KAA15452@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 07:09 AM 12/16/98 +0100, Anonymous wrote:

>> > disapproval published to appropriate orgs c) _short_
>> > loosely organized burst of DoS against select online
>> > targets from widely distributed sources.

>> A DoS (Denial of Service) action is a really, really,
>> really bad idea.

["clarification", or something, elided]

>Example: A public web page is setup with information on the next "sit in" or
>"log writing campaign" containing the agenda behind the protest, contact
>persons for more information, target site with explanation of choice, start
>time and stop time.  Let's further that the cause is able to get a couple
>hundred or couple thousand supporters to, for example, repeatedly telnet to
>port 80 on the remote server during a specific 5 minute window and type in:
>
>GET I do not support your sites views on such and such see
>www.stop_this_now.org for details.
>
>Given the right level of logging on the server you'd quickly fill up the
>target's logs with a record of the number of people (or actually computers)
>that don't agree with the target's agenda.  [...]

You clearly don't run a website. Logs are very valuable. Any admin
who doesn't have space for at least several days of normal traffic
available on their logging device is simply not doing a good job.
A network admin running a website doesn't lose logs - careers live
and die on them (if this seems an overstatement to you, go look at
http://www.abcinteractiveaudits.com/ and report your findings.
-10 points for declaring it stupid.).

If you didn't mean "fill up the target's logs" (which I took to mean
overflow available disk space), but rather "pepper the logs with
many instances of some sort of odd political commentary", that could
have an effect. It could throw off reporting and make a new conversation
topic for editors, which might, if you managed to organize enough
people, earn you a CNET story. "CyberActivists Make An Obtuse
Statement - Click Here For Soundbyte".

Great job.

Truth is, on any major site, you'd need hundreds of robots making
your bogus requests to show up - manually telneting to port 80
is line noise these days to any serious site, unless you're poking
at potential security problems.

If you really want to try this, at least take the bother to make
valid HTTP requests that most servers will recognize. Your example
above should be something like:

GET
/I/dont/support/your/sites/views/on/such/and/such/see/www.stop.this.now.org/
for/details HTTP/1.0

(note the two newlines at the end of the request)

A sysadmins reality check,

T. Pynchon 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 03:22:00 +0800
To: 
Subject: Re: DigiCash Update, part II
In-Reply-To: <004d01be28a9$64561620$0401010a@luckylaptop.c2.net>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 11:06 PM -0500 on 12/15/98, Lucky Green wrote:


> This is one of the many reasons our group has the support of several
> of the larger banks in the world, banking software/EDI vendors, credit
> card clearing houses, personal financial/cryptography software
> vendors, global media corporations, and other players that are
> required to make eCash and other DigiCash IP derived technologies
> ubiquitous.

Kewl!


So... Lucky?  Who do you have?

I mean, it looks like you're announcing that you have the only people of any
financial substance who really care about *using* this technology, much less
investing in it, and they're all lined up for you to pull the trigger and bag
DigiCash.

- From here on out, it's simple, yes? Just announce who they are, publically,
and make your tender offer.

You do that, Scott sees the writing on the wall that he can't sell to anyone
else who's not already on your list of investors, and surrenders, Dorothy.
Gotta know when to fold 'em, and all that.


So, again, Lucky, care to tell us who's backing you up?

After all, *that's* how they do hostile takeovers in *real* life. Just like
secret crypto protocols, there are no anonymous investors on the street. That
stuff's for financial fairy tales.


Well, okay, to be fair, there *is* another way to do this, too, since DigiCash
is a private company currently in the lap of a bankruptcy trustee. It's pretty
simple, really. Just buy up the outstanding debt that caused DigiCash to file
Chapter 11 in the first place and hold out until Scott & Co. forks over the
company. I'm sure that it's less than $10 million. Maybe it's way less, and, I
bet the number's completely knowable, or will be soon, since the legal
documents on the DigiCash bankrupcy are completely public information.
Whatever the amount of the nut is, it's easily chump change to a bunch players
as august as yours must be.

Presto-chango, you get the same result without making the headlines.

Nonetheless, your investors would still have to be public, yes? That's the
consequence of buying assets out of Chapter 11.

But, like the sign says, "If you lived here you'd be home now." If you *could*
do one or the other of the above, you'd have done it already. Shades of Enrico
Fermi, who noted that if there were extraterrestrials within
geologically-attainable timescales of us, they'd *be* here already.


To be honest, I don't really give a hoot *who* owns the blind signature patent
as long as they license the damn thing so the rest of the world can get on
with using it.  However, DigiCash, at the moment, has a nut to crack in the
millions of dollars. The people holding those um, nuts, don't care who pays
them as long as they get their money back. After that's taken care of, all of
us can go play moneypunks to our hearts' content. I'm pretty sure that Scott
Loftesness, after being a permanent fixture on all of the lists I've ever
started :-), knows *exactly* what to do with the patents once the bills are
paid. Or at least what *I* think he should do. :-).


Frankly, Lucky, just promising us, "HAL"-like, that "something wonderful's
gonna happen", that you have, like Nixon, "a secret plan to end the war" just
doesn't cut it anymore. Been there, done that, that dog don't hunt, etc.

Just about every time I turn around, I get private mail from some cypherpunk
or other with a secret plan to take over DigiCash and free the blind signature
patent for us all, that they're really just a stalking horse for some really
huge and famous investor, but they can't tell me who, just now. It's getting
tiring, frankly, and, like always, money talks, and so forth.

The cost of anything is the foregone alternative, including reputation
capital.


So, I guess it's time I anted up some of what little I have myself, :-), and
called your hand, here, Lucky. First, *my* cards...

After my recent trip to London, I have enough actual cash, promised from about
3 sources, and maybe from one or two more, to form a small syndicate which can
pay the present value, at 15% and an 8 year remaining life on the blind
signature patent, on about $1-2 million in equivalent patent income. I think I
can get more people and money signed on over the next few months, but if you
do the math, the amount I'm talking about is not much actual cash, paid up
front. Enough for a nice house in some places, but that's about it. However it
may be that it is, quite literally, a cash bird in the hand vs. two future
revenue birds in the bush, frankly, Scott hasn't gotten that close to the end
of his rope, just yet. He's already turned down a cash offer for more than
that that I know of, whether you and I are talking about the same rejected
offer or not.

But the amount I'm calculating above is still pretty much fair market on
what's left of the residual financial cryptography *research* value on the
blind signature patent, and that much money could, just barely, keep the
patents from being buried with DigiCash if it ever came to that. That is,
nobody knows how to actually *make* money on these patents. (Or DigiCash would
have done it already and/or somebody would have coughed up the money to buy
DigiCash out of hock by now otherwise.) But a lot of us have research *ideas*
which *might* make money, and which need to be tested in the marketplace to
see if they actually work, the payments business being what it is. So, a
million or two is about what I would guess the *entire* market is willing to
pay for the privilege of *experimenting* with blind signatures over the
remaning 8-year life of the patent. That comes to up-front, present value,
"bird in the hand", cash in the low to mid six figures, depending on how much
you think the patents can earn out in research payments.

I haven't announced the folks who've verbally committed to fund this syndicate
yet. But, I'm changing that.

I'm asking the person who's volunteering to floor-manage the legal part of the
syndicate to draw up an offering memorandum, or whatever, and when these
people who have made verbal offers have actually signed something legally
binding, I'll announce who they are publically on the Philodox website.


So, that's what I have, Lucky. My game plan is to form a small syndicate to
buy the blind signature patent, and a few patents, from DigiCash, or what's
left of it, for the estimated research revenue they may bring, but, only
*after* Scott has exhausted any ability he has to get any revenue from other
sources.


Now for *your* cards: It sounds like you're promising your investors something
significantly more than the present value of the returns on research
royalties, and I wish you luck. But it seems to me that you don't have to be
so skulduggerous, if you've really got what you claim you have in your quote
above.

And, so, Lucky, whatcha got, and, more to the point, who do ya have? Have they
signed memoranda of understanding, if not actual legal committments of
capital? Have you formed a corporation to transfer the patents to, or are you
going to purchase DigiCash, Inc., with all it's potential domestic and foriegn
liability? And so on.

Details, please.


Cheers,
Robert Hettinga


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.5.5

iQEVAwUBNnfeJcUCGwxmWcHhAQFmqgf9EyLxZ7o5THZk24sycXIHRG8Rpf39A1ax
PGpqbxphoxKfPqr/35J1Ei8Y7bXkodv+SKX5s9957rgtLtgSENOfREwG7OlcxJxj
G1IOsIKf1umNZ5rUWRrlOwYVx8eEAIViW0U3h4Tj0zdyjUy0hSyPrbWjColmY/Wc
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OFKTsmtZxcXqbivD9OMQUO3kufJkpsVv+3WG93LgLSb6nM5gB5e0Gw==
=vHGx
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Kevlar 
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 04:28:44 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Strike may have had small impact...
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19981216112825.00895bf0@max-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I think the impact of the strike on December 14 against the Wassenaar
Arrangement has been greatly under-estimated. Even though I can only
comfirm a handfull of brave souls may have supported the cause, the
discussion about it was enough to raise awareness. And wasn't that the point?

I submit this as proof for your aproval:
(Orinigal story quoted directly from:
http://www.zdnet.com/icom/e-business/1998/12/wassenaar/index.html )

December 14, 1998 
Wassenaar Pact May Threaten Global
E-com 

By Jim Kerstetter - PC Week 
Could a treaty banning the use of strong encryption put
the screws, once again, to the U.S. encryption industry?
Cryptographers and others in the security industry worry
that that could be exactly what is happening.
The Clinton administration this month, in an about-face to
indications that it was loosening its grip on encryption,
announced the signing of a treaty with 32 countries called
the Wassenaar Arrangement. The treaty would limit key
lengths to 64 bits or less.

Clinton administration officials said the treaty will, for the
first time, level the playing field for U.S. companies trying
to sell abroad. That's true, to a point. U.S. companies
have long complained that they were unfairly hampered by
the lack of restrictions in other countries. What they had
hoped would happen--and what the administration
seemed to be edging toward--was an easing of U.S.
export laws. They never asked for stronger controls in
other countries.

The Wassenaar Agreement broadsided many who had
watched the Clinton administration over recent years
grant export licenses for strong encryption products to
companies such as Hewlett-Packard Co. and Netscape
Communications Corp.

Jeff Smith, general counsel of the Washington industry
group Americans for Computer Privacy, said in a
statement the treaty is a welcome attempt to level the
playing field, but "it also demonstrates flaws in our
government's encryption export policies."

Security status quo 
So what does it mean if the agreement does become
law? For starters, it would not cut the use of unbreakable
encryption. The Data Encryption Standard, the U.S. standard for symmetric, or
private-key, encryption, has been broken at 56 bits. No one has publicly
acknowledged breaking a DES key longer than that. The Triple DES key,
commonly used in the United States, would continue to be illegal for export. 

Ironically, the government's own proposed Advanced Encryption Standard, which
is expected to replace DES in about two years, would not be allowed for
export.
It's not clear what the treaty will mean to companies that have already been
granted export licenses either for strong encryption--the
financial-transaction
encryption that has been exempt in the past--or for authentication mechanisms
that usually take 1,024 bits.

In other words, the treaty would reinforce the status quo in the United
States.

Elsewhere around the world, it could be a different story. Of the 32 other
nations, several, such as the United Kingdom and Japan, already have strong
encryption controls. But others, such as Germany, have virtually no export
controls, and companies there could be seriously impacted.

About 18 months ago, the control of encryption products was taken out of the
hands of the U.S. Department of Defense, which had long considered encryption
a munition, and handed to the Commerce Department. Although the result was
often the same--the DOD, the National Security Agency, the CIA and the FBI
still had a say in what could and could not be exported--the shift of
control was considered by many to be a sign that the administration was
growing more friendly to industry concerns.

Those hopes were further bolstered when export limits were raised from 40
bits to 56 bits, when financial institutions where allowed to use whatever
they wanted to protect transactions and when a long list of companies
gained export approval.

But the Wassenaar Agreement, which must still be approved by Congress and
legislative bodies in most of the participating countries, would put the
brakes on that road to government deregulation.

Jim Kerstetter is a staff writer at PC Week. Send e-mail to
jim_kerstetter@zd.com. 



-Kevlar


Does God know Peano Algebra? Or does she not care if strong atheists
couldnt reason their way out of a trap made of Boolean presumptions?

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing, but zero knowlege is
absolutely subversive.

Overspecialization breeds in weakness. It's a slow death.

Beat your algorithms into swords, your dumb terminals into shields, and
turn virtual machines into battlefields... Let the weak say, "I am strong"
and question authority. 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 05:06:25 +0800
To: Robert Hettinga 
Subject: Re: DigiCash Update, part II
In-Reply-To: <004d01be28a9$64561620$0401010a@luckylaptop.c2.net>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 8:22 AM -0800 12/16/98, Robert Hettinga wrote:

>Well, okay, to be fair, there *is* another way to do this, too, since DigiCash
>is a private company currently in the lap of a bankruptcy trustee. It's pretty
>simple, really. Just buy up the outstanding debt that caused DigiCash to file
>Chapter 11 in the first place and hold out until Scott & Co. forks over the
>company.
...
>Presto-chango, you get the same result without making the headlines.

The bankruptcy laws simply don't work this way. At least not in the U.S. My
understanding is that the current instance of Digicash is a fully
U.S.-based company.

Those holding debts, secured or unsecured, don't have the company or its
patents "forked over to them."

If a company is ultimately liquidated the physical plant, furnishing,
equipment, bank accounts (if any), patents, and (sometimes) "good will" are
sold. Proceeds then go to the various debt holders according to their class
of debt.

The debt holders _may_ have side deals, contractually arranged, which give
them rights of first refusal on certain patents or assets. But not usually.

So, buying the debt of a company facing liquidation guarantees almost
nothing about gaining access to patents. Someone who has no debt interest
in the company may well end up outbidding others for assets, including
patents.

This is just basic business stuff. I'm an investor in

About the wisdom of announcing a takeover publically I'll say nothing.

--Tim May

Y2K -- LMGALMAO -- Loading my guns and laughing my ass off
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 05:03:15 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: y2k+weapons
Message-ID: <199812162011.MAA01025@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



finally a good analysis of the weaponry situation.. surprised
it has taken this long for anyone to write something like this.
hopefully most weaponry systems will have failsafe mechanisms
that prevent them from being shot off. in other words, they
will malfunction, they will not work or be launchable.. worst
case scenario of course is that they launch..!!  the analogy
is sort of like with stop lights. how horribly will they fail?
for example stop lights could fail and just blink in all 4
directions, or they could be green in all 4 directions.. both
are a failure, but the latter is more like a "catastrophic"
failure.. with weapons, inoperability is a failure, launching
is a catastrophic failure.

------- Forwarded Message


Delivered-To: pswann@easynet.co.uk
From: Carolyn Langdon 
Subject: Y2K and Nuclear Weapons Command
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 16:25:51 -0500
Organization: St Lawrence Centre for the Arts
Encoding: 119 TEXT

Science for Peace
Media Release
For immediate release - December 1998

Y2K and Nuclear Weapons Command and Control Systems

Toronto - There are over 35,000 nuclear weapons remaining in the world
today.  These arsenals contain the destructive power of 650,000 Hiroshima
bombs. Thousands of these weapons, mostly land-based ballistic missiles and
submarine launched missiles are in a state of ready deployment.  That is
their warheads, which contain the nuclear fissile material, are attached to
their delivery systems.

Computers have become increasingly central to nuclear operations but they
have not been without their glitches and serious flaws. During the Cold War
computer malfunctions produced several serious false alarms of missile
attacks, and during the Gulf War computer malfunctions contributed to the
failings of the Patriot anti-missile system.

"Both Russia and the U.S. are believed to have a "launch on warning"
policy, so that a retaliatory launch is made after an adversary's missile
is detected, and before the warhead impacts.  Thus a single accidental or
unauthorized launch could result in wholesale nuclear war." says Dr. Alan
Phillips of Science for Peace.

"When you factor in the Y2K computer problem an already dangerous situation
becomes untenable", says Calvin Gotlieb from Science for Peace.  "A Y2K
meltdown in the nuclear systems of any one of the nuclear countries - the
U.S., Russia, China, France, Britain, India, Pakistan and Israel (an
undeclared nuclear state) would spell disaster."

Dr. Barbara Simons, President of the Association for Computing Machinery
states,
"I am not going to worry about whether or not my VCR might become confused
on 1/1/00.  The worst case scenario is not especially bad.  I am, however,
going to worry about whether or not a computer that controls a major
weapons system becomes confused on 1/1/00."

Research findings by a number of different agencies and experts, both
inside and outside the U.S. Dept. of Defense (DOD), show "no confidence" in
the Pentagon's present program to meet the Year 2000 challenge.  The DOD
weapons systems utilize millions of 'embedded systems' in the form of
microchips and microprocessors.  U.S. Deputy Secretary of Defense John
Hamre has admitted that, "everything is so interconnected, it's very hard
to know with any precision that we've got it fixed."  This was the U.S.
state of affairs after 2 billion dollars had been spent trying to fix it.
 There is little information coming out of Russia about their progress with
Y2K problems, but we can safely surmise that all can't be well given their
diminished resources.

David Parnas, the NSERC/Bell Industrial Research Chair in Software
Engineering at McMaster University is concerned about the risks posed by
the Y2K computer problem and nuclear systems. He says that, "The US
military establishment is heavily dependent on computers for communication,
intelligence and for control of weapons.  Computer programs are very
complex constructions.  When a problem is discovered it often takes weeks
to fix.  Often the "fixed" program is still not right and requires further
repair after the revised program is put into service.  Sometimes, programs
that are not date sensitive exchange dates with programs that are and will
fail when those 'partner' programs fail."


The Fail Safe Solution:

All nuclear weapons states need to disconnect their nuclear warheads from
their delivery systems to eliminate the risk of nuclear war by
miscalculation, accident, or the Y2K problem. With proper planning and
sufficient lead-time, it is technically feasible.  In 1991, in the wake of
the coup attempt in the Soviet Union, Presidents Bush and Gorbachev took
thousands of nuclear weapons off deployment in a short period of time.  The
most difficult problem will be providing safe storage for the thousands of
warheads from land-based missiles.  In view of the risks involved in
leaving weapons on ready alert, this difficulty can be easily overcome if
governments start planning now.

We need to hear from NATO, the U.N. and Congress that a multilateral
approach to the Y2K problem is being coordinated.  To date there has been
near silence.  Time is running out for a coordinated approach.

Similar views to those of Science for Peace are held by individual computer
scientists and nuclear physicists, organizations like the Institute for
Energy and Environmental Research and the British American Security
Information Council, both based in the U.S., and Physicians for Global
Responsibility among others.

- - - 30 -
For more information please contact:

Science for Peace Board members:

Dr. Alan Phillips, Science for Peace & Physicians for Global Survival,
905-385-0353
Calvin Gotlieb, Professor Emeritus, Dept of Computer Science, U of T
T. 416-978-2986 or 416-482-4509
David Parnas, P.Eng., NSERC/Bell Industrial Research Chair in Software
Engineering, Dept. of Computing and Software, Faculty of Engineering at
McMaster University 905-525-9140x27353 or 905-648-5772

Other:
Barbara Simons, President of the Association for Computing Machinery
(simons@acm.org)
Arjun Makhijani, Institute for Energy and Environmental Research (U.S.)
301-270-5500

For further information on the Y2K issue and other related nuclear issues
see the Science for Peace website at:   www.math.yorku.ca/sfp/

Science for Peace is located at University College, 15 King's College
Circle,
University of Toronto M5S 3H7 Canada.  Tel. 416-978-3606.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 05:24:10 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Strike may have had small impact...
In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19981216112825.00895bf0@max-web.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 11:28 AM -0800 12/16/98, Kevlar wrote:
>I think the impact of the strike on December 14 against the Wassenaar
>Arrangement has been greatly under-estimated. Even though I can only
>comfirm a handfull of brave souls may have supported the cause, the
>discussion about it was enough to raise awareness. And wasn't that the point?
>
>I submit this as proof for your aproval:
>(Orinigal story quoted directly from:
>http://www.zdnet.com/icom/e-business/1998/12/wassenaar/index.html )
>
>December 14, 1998
>Wassenaar Pact May Threaten Global
>E-com
>
>By Jim Kerstetter - PC Week
...

I didn't see any mention of the little strike.

If you think Wassenaar wasn't already a story, and that only the "strike"
of 63 geeks made it into a story, you're just one of the nitwits.

--Tim May

Y2K -- LMGALMAO -- Loading my guns and laughing my ass off
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 05:32:53 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: CyberScam
In-Reply-To: <199810231545.RAA01452@replay.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




I wanted to see what other nonsense this nitwit has written, and found this:

At 10:12 AM -0800 10/23/98, Kevlar wrote:

>
>My bad. You were serious. But still...
>

My bad _what_? The fragment "My bad" is nonsense.


>Mozilla (NS), IE, and many other less well known (but certianly as popular)
>WEB browsers have encryption built right into them, so you can do things
>"Securely". Nobody uses their real name on the internet, unless it's for
>buisness,

Nonsense. Many of us use our "real names" on the Internet, right here on
this non-business list. In fact, real names outnumber nyms by probably
10-1. Ditto for most of the Usenet and most mailing lists. Chat rooms may
be a different story...I wouldn't know about them.

>Naturally this is in compareison to the internet's predacessor (Not
>ARPAnet, that was a government project. BBS's came first)
>itgrumble>, which were mostly free to anyone who came and wanted to dl/ul a
>file or post in the message base. And usally if it wasn't open you could
>apply for access.

No, BBBs (not "BBS's") did _not_ come first. I had an ARPANet account in
1973 or so, long before any meaningful BBSs were available. (And the
ARPANet goes back to 1967-8 or so.)

Nitwit.

--Tim May


Y2K -- LMGALMAO -- Loading my guns and laughing my ass off
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tom Vogt 
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 20:55:01 +0800
To: Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer 
Subject: Re: I must admit. . . (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199812150144.TAA05750@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <3677A494.3825B97C@wlwonline.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Choate wrote:
> > Cypherpunks write code?
> 
> It's too bad they don't publish some of it in a newspaper or two...

now that would be a novel idea... buy some add space and use it to
publish rsa... :)

btw: hi, I'm new to the list. you'll hear more from me in a second.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Gillogly 
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 06:33:44 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Network Associates' KRA Partner status
Message-ID: <367829BD.D92B0106@acm.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Somebody said in response to my quoting the message from KRA to
Dave Del Torto:
> The membership applications they are referring to may just be the
> paperwork needed to officially transfer the membership from TIS to NAI.
> This would represent NAI's decision to continue to be a member of the
> KRA but would not be a matter of joining anew; rather it would maintain
> the existing relationship inherited from TIS.

Whether or not KRA had a legal existence at the time NAI withdrew from
it, my main points (and yours, assuming you're the same Somebody as
before) still stand.  NAI did announce after the PGP acquisition that
they were withdrawing from KRA, whatever its legal status at the time,
and they did take explicit action to join, rejoin, or transfer TIS's
membership to themselves.  It was  simply a passive acquisition of
the TIS membership as a result of absorbing TIS.

Our points of difference seem to be much smaller than our agreements,
and the recent Schneier article doesn't appear to match this version
of history.

-- 
	Jim Gillogly
	26 Foreyule S.R. 1998, 21:29
	12.19.5.13.19, 5 Cauac 12 Mac, Ninth Lord of Night




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tom Vogt 
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 21:44:47 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: The Fallacy of Cracking Contests
In-Reply-To: <4.0.2.19981215202538.00a42b90@mail.visi.com>
Message-ID: <3677AC3D.667AA2D@wlwonline.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Bruce Schneier wrote:
> 
>         The Fallacy of Cracking Contests
>                       Bruce Schneier
> 
[...]
> 1.  The contests are generally unfair.
[...]
> 2.  The analysis is not controlled.
[...]
> 3.  Contest prizes are rarely good incentives.

I'd like to add:

4.  a breaker is not likely to tell

at least part of the people entering such a contest who have what it
takes to be successful will NOT report a success. in many cases, waiting
until the seemingly secure product actually ships and THEN applying the
gained knowledge will yield far greater rewards.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 04:13:44 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: [e-money] Press Review IV: E-mail trail
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:37:56 +0100
To: e-money@moving-art-studio.com
From: jens-ingo 
Subject: [e-money] Press Review IV: E-mail trail
Sender: owner-e-money@mail.serve.com
Reply-To: owner-e-money@moving-art-studio.com

MOVING ART STUDIO
LIST: E-MONEY
http://www.moving-art-studio.com/
=================================
found in
wired news on 16 dec 1998 pst
http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/16485.html

==================== start quoted text ====================

                        China Delays Net Trial
                        Reuters

                        7:35 a.m.  25.Nov.98.PST
                        SHANGHAI -- China has delayed the closed-door
                        trial of a man accused of using the Internet to
                        undermine the state, and on Wednesday his wife
                        called for an open court hearing.

                        Lin Hai, a 30-year-old computer engineer, had
                        been scheduled to go on trial on Thursday. He is
                        accused of inciting subversion of state power, but
                        a Shanghai court has postponed the case
                        indefinitely, said Lin's wife, Xu Hong.

                        "They did not say when it might get underway,"
                        Xu told Reuters. "When it starts, I would want it to
                        be in open court so there would be public
                        scrutiny."

                        Lin, who was arrested in March, has been accused
                        of using the Internet to send tens of thousands
                        of email addresses to VIP Reference, a dissident
                        publication based in the United States. If
                        convicted, he could face up to life in prison.

                        The case was to be heard in a closed-door
                        session at the Shanghai Number One
                        Intermediate Court. Even the defendant's wife
                        was to be barred from court.

                        "Of course I believe I should be at the trial," Xu
                        said. "But the hearing should be open to the
                        public as well."

                        The court offered no explanation for its sudden
                        decision to postpone the hearing, but Xu said it
                        could be a result of international interest in the
                        case. The case has been ignored by the official
                        Chinese media but has attracted widespread
                        attention abroad.

                        Some 1.2 million Chinese are on the Internet,
                        and the total is expected to reach 5 million by
                        2000. The government has embraced the
                        Internet, but so have a number of dissident
                        groups.

                        VIP Reference, one of many dissident
                        publications that have sprung up online, says it
                        sends information to 250,000 email accounts in
                        China from various email addresses in the United
                        States.

                        Court documents called VIP Reference a hostile
                        foreign organization, and claimed it used data
                        provided by Lin "to disseminate large numbers of
                        articles aimed at inciting subversion of state
                        power and the socialist system."

                        Lin ran a now-defunct software company that set
                        up Web sites and provided job searches for
                        multinational companies. His supporters say he
                        frequently exchanged or purchased email
                        addresses to build up a database for his online
                        job search business.

                        Copyright(c) 1998 Reuters Limited.

==================== end quoted text ====================
==================================
You are subscribed to the list e-money.
To *un*subscribe simply send mail to
e-money@moving-art-studio.com
*message text: subscribe or unsubscribe*

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Joel O'Connor" 
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 23:53:05 +0800
To: mib 
Subject: Re: I must admit. . .
Message-ID: <19981216144244.7920.rocketmail@send101.yahoomail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Cypherpunks write code?  Make people use it. . .




---mib  wrote:
>
> On Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 12:25:50PM -0800, you wrote:
> > I wonder sometimes whether or not there is hope for us to ever stop
> > this tyrrany.  I've seen a bunch of us diss the strike saying it was
> > an outlandish and foolish idea, but I hadn't seen anyone of you come
> > up with something better.
> 
> Cypherpunks write code?
> 
> - d.
> 

==
"Be sand in the gears of the machine." Henry David Thoreau
            


_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Harvey Rook (Exchange)" 
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 07:48:21 +0800
To: "'Tim May'" 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Tim May Wrote...
> 
> Some (Nitwits) are from Yahoo, some from MyDejaNews (tm), some from 
> HotMail. And then
> there are the unilluminati from WebTV and AOL.
> 

The depressing thing is that AOL as at least 14 million paying subscribers.
It may even be up to 20 million. Hotmail has 30 million active accounts. The
unilluminati are the future of the internet.

Harv




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 06:02:14 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: CyberScam (fwd)
Message-ID: <199812162106.PAA13774@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 12:43:07 -0800
> From: Tim May 
> Subject: Re: CyberScam

> No, BBBs (not "BBS's") did _not_ come first. I had an ARPANet account in
> 1973 or so, long before any meaningful BBSs were available. (And the
> ARPANet goes back to 1967-8 or so.)

1969.


    ____________________________________________________________________

          What raises the standard of living may well diminish the
          quality of life.

                                                 The Club of Rome

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 08:08:52 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: RE: Nitwits
In-Reply-To: <2FBF98FC7852CF11912A0000000000010D19ADDE@DINO>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 3:02 PM -0800 12/16/98, Harvey Rook (Exchange) wrote:
>Tim May Wrote...
>>
>> Some (Nitwits) are from Yahoo, some from MyDejaNews (tm), some from
>> HotMail. And then
>> there are the unilluminati from WebTV and AOL.
>>
>
>The depressing thing is that AOL as at least 14 million paying subscribers.
>It may even be up to 20 million. Hotmail has 30 million active accounts. The
>unilluminati are the future of the internet.
>

By the way, I don't condemn AOL and even WebTV out of hand. For some, it's
the best way to get access to the Net, or at least better than what they
currently know about. As bad as some features of AOL are, their browser and
mailer capabilities are actually _better_ than what some university and
corporate users are stuck with (until recently, some only had VT100s
running off of VAXen).

The problem is that the Net and all fora on the Net are being invaded by
folks who were the "C" students in high school English. (Actually, some of
these illiterates may have gotten "B"s in their English classes, maybe even
a few "A"s...such has been the effect of dumbing-down and ebonicizing our
educational system.)

"Like, cuz, my bad! WareZ..where? I cant unnerstand why u all think speling
is so imporrtant. Like you prolly past English class or sumpin."

And these folks don't seem to read, haven't thought deeply about poltical
or social issues, and just appear to drop in on lists and spew for a few
weeks before, thankfully, vanishing.

Filters are the answer, of course. If I were on any high volume mailing
lists these days, which I'm not, I'd consider shifting to a "positive
reputation filter" mode. Which I may do anyway.

--Tim May

Y2K -- LMGALMAO -- Loading my guns and laughing my ass off
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Eric Cordian 
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 07:01:50 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Clinton Attacks Iraq
Message-ID: <199812162220.QAA11058@wire.insync.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Looks like Bubba has launched a massive strike on Iraq to draw attention
from his cocksucking problems.

-- 
Eric Michael Cordian 0+
O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division
"Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Shrinidhi 
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 22:33:35 +0800
To: "'cypherpunks@sirius.infonex.com>
Subject: FW: Information about Algorithmic hash
Message-ID: <01BE2910.D19808D0@DOORS>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Hi all,

Can any one tell where can I find info about Algorithmic hash






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Joel O'Connor" 
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 01:31:11 +0800
To: mib 
Subject: Re: I must admit. . .
Message-ID: <19981216163705.5509.rocketmail@send106.yahoomail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

hahahaha. . .now that was good.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP 6.0.2

iQA/AwUBNnfhbVMQ9C083U98EQL7/ACaAlm+meYQpigAcpd2b60nTM48nT4AnjV+
bcnaWyFIx+QMFOvAEvoSi6B7
=LMpF
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----





---mib  wrote:
>
> On Wed, Dec 16, 1998 at 02:42:44PM +0000, Joel O'Connor wrote:
> > Cypherpunks write code?  Make people use it. . .
> 
> Vee have vays...
> 
> - d.
> 

==
"Be sand in the gears of the machine." Henry David Thoreau
            


_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Joel O'Connor" 
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 02:09:37 +0800
To: Rabid Wombat 
Subject: Re: I must admit. . .
Message-ID: <19981216164043.5754.rocketmail@send103.yahoomail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

It only took one to turn India around.  Ghandi nearly starved to
death, used nothing but passifism and won the race man.  You can't
discredit the labors of a few, wonderous things can happen when 3
people bond together for a common cause.  To much negativity in this
world already, I don't wish to add to it.  We've got nothing left but
hope and what a large flame a small spark can ignite.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP 6.0.2

iQA/AwUBNnfiP1MQ9C083U98EQJ8tACg7OHwYApyS5ZV910pjal4l10a66cAoLT3
0MMHXv2SVi4gvLgd/VhGSVV8
=cZCk
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----




---Rabid Wombat  wrote:
>
> 
> 
> On Mon, 14 Dec 1998, Joel O'Connor wrote:
> 
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: SHA1
> > 
> > I wonder sometimes whether or not there is hope for us to ever stop
> > this tyrrany.  I've seen a bunch of us diss the strike saying it was
> > an outlandish and foolish idea, but I hadn't seen anyone of you come
> > up with something better.  That act of protest, no matter how small,
> > serves to raise awareness.
> 
> Nothing like an extremely weak protest effort to hurt the cause ...
> 
> Having three geeks unplug their computers for a day sends the message 
> that "nobody cares."
> 
> 
> 

==
"Be sand in the gears of the machine." Henry David Thoreau
            


_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Missouri FreeNet Administration 
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 07:41:40 +0800
To: gen-dist@mfn.org
Subject: Open Letter To William Klinton (fwd)
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 16:30:55 -0600 (CST)

Dear Mr. Klinton,

	Your actions in bombing Bagdad, *solely* to distract from your own
impeachment problems, is a Stalin-like crime against humanity.  I am
*astounded* that you are willing to throw away the lives of innocent
people in your attempt to hold your [so often abused] power. 

	Impeachment is no longer enough: only assasination could hope to
bring Justice to the world at this point.

	I fervently pray that some heroic man or woman will have the
courage and moral standing to answer the call and end your miserable Nazi
existence, and once again allow us to hold our heads up when announcing
that we are an American citizen.  Right now, I am totally ashamed: of you,
of the Country for allowing you to get to this point, of the system of
putrid politicians that allows you to stay in an office which allows you
to maim and murder in such a wanton and capricious manner.  In short, I am
ashamed of my citizenship. 


Yours, 
J.A. Terranson
sysadmin@mfn.org

--
If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they
should give serious consideration towards setting a better example:
Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of
unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in
the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and 
elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire
populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate...
This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States
as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers,
associates, or others.  Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of
those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the
first place...
--------------------------------------------------------------------






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: mib 
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 07:43:07 +0800
To: Tim May 
Subject: Re: Nitwits
In-Reply-To: <199810231545.RAA01452@replay.com>
Message-ID: <19981216165235.B6577@io.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Wed, Dec 16, 1998 at 12:43:07PM -0800, Tim May wrote:
> I wanted to see what other nonsense this nitwit has written, and found this:
>
> At 10:12 AM -0800 10/23/98, Kevlar wrote:
> >My bad. You were serious. But still...
>
> My bad _what_? The fragment "My bad" is nonsense.

His homies in da hood are down wit it.

- d.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: real@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 10:03:12 +0800
To: measl@mfn.org>
Subject: Re: Open Letter To William Klinton (fwd)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199812170058.RAA31040@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Date sent:      	Wed, 16 Dec 1998 16:41:39 -0600 (CST)
From:           	Missouri FreeNet Administration 
To:             	gen-dist@mfn.org
Copies to:      	cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject:        	Open Letter To William Klinton (fwd)
Send reply to:  	Missouri FreeNet Administration 

> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 16:30:55 -0600 (CST)
> 

 The season has just openend on Klinton and Blair,what is the 
going price quoted on the AP bot on Blacknet?

> Dear Mr. Klinton,
> 
> 	Your actions in bombing Bagdad, *solely* to distract from your own
> impeachment problems, is a Stalin-like crime against humanity.  I am
> *astounded* that you are willing to throw away the lives of innocent
> people in your attempt to hold your [so often abused] power. 
> 
> 	Impeachment is no longer enough: only assasination could hope to
> bring Justice to the world at this point.
> 
> 	I fervently pray that some heroic man or woman will have the
> courage and moral standing to answer the call and end your miserable Nazi
> existence, and once again allow us to hold our heads up when announcing
> that we are an American citizen.  Right now, I am totally ashamed: of you,
> of the Country for allowing you to get to this point, of the system of
> putrid politicians that allows you to stay in an office which allows you
> to maim and murder in such a wanton and capricious manner.  In short, I am
> ashamed of my citizenship. 
> 
> 
> Yours, 
> J.A. Terranson
> sysadmin@mfn.org
> 
> --
> If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they
> should give serious consideration towards setting a better example:
> Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of
> unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in
> the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and 
> elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire
> populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate...
> This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States
> as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.
> 
> The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers,
> associates, or others.  Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of
> those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the
> first place...
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 


                   Graham-John Bullers
     edmc.net           ab756@freenet.toronto.on.ca
              moderator of alt.2600.moderated
    http://www.freenet.edmonton.ab.ca/~real/index.html




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 02:16:42 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: CRYPTO-GRAM, December 15, 1998
Message-ID: <199812161730.SAA23119@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> Okay, I finally got the story right about Network Associates Inc. and the
> Key Recovery Alliance.  (Last month I pointed to a Wired News story that
> they quietly rejoined.)  The story is wrong.  They never left the KRA.
> Since its inception, Trusted Information Systems was a big mover and shaker
> in the KRA.  When NAI bought TIS in May 1998, TIS's membership transferred
> to NAI.  NAI resigned the leadership posts that TIS had held in the
> Alliance and stopped attending its meetings, but never left the KRA.  So,
> NAI is a member of the KRA, and has been since it bought TIS.
> http://www.wired.com/news/print_version/technology/story/16219.html

As a further clarification, it is incorrect to say that NAI "never left
the KRA."

Network Associates Inc. (NAI) was formed out of McAfee and Network
General.  McAfee was a member of the KRA, so at the time NAI was formed,
it was a member of the KRA.

When NAI bought PGP, in late 1997, Phil Zimmermann found out about NAI's
membership, and he was able to persuade management to withdraw from
the KRA.  This is why it is wrong to say that NAI never left the KRA.
See http://www.news.com/News/Item/0,4,17112,00.html.

NAI bought TIS a few months later.  TIS was a member and in fact a leading
member of the KRA.  By purchasing TIS, NAI inherited its membership in
the KRA, and so NAI was once again a member.

It's not clear whether Phil Zimmermann or anyone else tried to get NAI to
again withdraw from the KRA, but if they did, they were not successful.
NAI renewed its membership later in 1998 and is still a member of the KRA,
although it has reduced its level of participation.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Burnes - Denver 
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 10:30:55 +0800
To: Eric Cordian 
Subject: Re: Clinton Attacks Iraq
In-Reply-To: <199812162220.QAA11058@wire.insync.net>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Wed, 16 Dec 1998, Eric Cordian wrote:

> Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 16:20:09 -0600 (CST)
> From: Eric Cordian 
> To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
> Subject: Clinton Attacks Iraq
> 
> Looks like Bubba has launched a massive strike on Iraq to draw attention
> from his cocksucking problems.
> 

10K civvies are predicted to expire for this little excercise.  The 
republicans in grand style stopped the impeachment vote obediently.

Whats your definition of evil?

This is totally out of control.  As much as I dislike the UN, Klinton
is supposed to get agreement with the UN security council.

This amount to a war crime under UN law and maybe that matters to
senate democrats.

This definitely seals the "abuse of power" charges.

Murdering 10k civvies to avoid impeachment just verifies everything
I believed about this guy.


jim




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 09:09:42 +0800
To: dbs@philodox.com>
Subject: Re: DigiCash Update, part II
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 2:55 PM -0500 on 12/16/98, Tim May wrote:

> The bankruptcy laws simply don't work this way. At least not in the U.S.

Actually, Tim, they do. And, frankly, what an amazingly silly thing to say.


A day doesn't go by when debt-holders don't convert to common, or are asked
to do so, bankruptcy or not, and take over what's left of a corporation
like DigiCash. Frequently, debtholders are the people in the strongest
position to do so, and the trustee agrees. Almost all bank mergers happen
that way, for instance, and a patent's as good an asset as a bank deposit,
especially if it's earning revenue, like DigiCash's are, however small that
revenue might be.

Actually auctioning off a company's assets doesn't happen nearly much as
the Small Business Adminstration -- or whoever your sources are -- say they
do. Mergers are usually the rule. Look at PGP, if you want a pointer.
Cybercash will probably be sold, someday, debts and all, and probably for
the amount of their debt, which, by now, I bet, is as considerable as
DigiCash's.

So, indeed, if partners of the caliber Lucky is boasting he has went out
and bought up the debt of DigiCash, it would take about a heartbeat and a
half before Loftesness, or even the bankruptcy trustee, would offer them
stock, if not control, just to take the company out of Chapter 11. Or, more
likely, to merge it with a more solvent business.

To think otherwise, is, frankly, a complete betrayal of your cluelessness on
the subject, Tim, and I don't use that word lightly in your regard.

> If a company is ultimately liquidated the physical plant, furnishing,
> equipment, bank accounts (if any), patents, and (sometimes) "good will" are
> sold. Proceeds then go to the various debt holders according to their class
> of debt.

Right. If it gets that far. Usually, it doesn't. In the case of DigiCash, it
might, except for one rather obvious thing. They still have outstanding
revenue from the likes of DeutcheBank, Nomura, and a few other rather large
financial institutions. That means that the patents, at the very least, are
worth something on the books, and probably *won't* be sold at auction
unless everything else fails. Frankly, converting all the outstanding debt
to common would be the cheapest thing to do, and you could bet that if
Loftesness could do it, he would.

Finally, if all that doesn't work, there's still the possibility of buying
the patents at graveside, like you, and, frankly, I, were talking about,
but, given the capital market's thorough disfavor for internet transaction
protocols these days, the patents are probably not worth much to any of the
"players" Lucky says he has, especially in the modern world of hockey-stick
internet IPO's and VC-induced investment bubbles.

So, outside of their residual remaining royalties :-), the patents *might*
be worth something to some financial crypto labs, and to the internet
crypto community at large, but that's about it, which was why I'm trying to
put together a syndicate to backstop whatever Loftesness tries to do to get
DigiCash back on it's feet.

To be blunt, nobody has *proven* that they're worth anything else but
research curiosity, so far. And, until the debts on DigiCash are taken off
the books (by stock-for-debt swap, or outright buyout, or whatever), we're
not going to find out anytime soon.

> The debt holders _may_ have side deals, contractually arranged, which give
> them rights of first refusal on certain patents or assets. But not usually.

More properly, DigiCash's debts may, in fact, *be* secured by the patents
themselves. In which case, the debtholders *do* get the patents.  Given the
quality of the outstanding debtholders, (most of whom *are* VC folks, if I
remember what I've heard) I expect that if it were at all possible to
collateralize the debt with the patents, they would have done so.

Of course, we'll find out the real answers to all of this when the Chapter 11
filing is actually final. Right now, I hear that there's nothing there but
a placeholder filing, with no actual assets listed in detail, much less
whether they're secured by anything.

> So, buying the debt of a company facing liquidation guarantees almost
> nothing about gaining access to patents.

Nonsense. Utter, complete, absolute -- and, clueless -- nonsense. See above.

> Someone who has no debt interest
> in the company may well end up outbidding others for assets, including
> patents.

Sure. Except, of course, when the judge turns the debtholders into
controlling shareholders instead. Go read up on a few actual bankruptcy
cases, Tim. It might help you state your case better if you used actual
data.

> This is just basic business stuff. I'm an investor in



Yes, I know, Tim. You "know" , and *I'm* no , and so on, and yes, we all know, you're a tycoon of massive renown.
A giant unsold position in Intel, which you have now retired early on, to a
fortress out in the thules somewhere, proves you must be such.


Of course, Tim, if you really were clueful about business as you say you
are (instead of just a commendably frugal case of being exactly the right
employee at the right time), *and* you cared about making blind signatures
ubiquitous, you, the man who taught us all how important they were to begin
with, could have probably *bought* the patent yourself, probably for a
song, at least once when they were up for grabs in the last few years. And
you might even made money on them, being so clueful in business, of course.
:-/.

I even expect that you could even buy those pantents now, all by yourself,
if you could remove yourself from your Barcolounger, except for the odd
trip to the shooting range, to buy a new stereo, or to wait for the
millenium. Yelling insults at the local gendarmarie as they drive by your
Y2K-proof stone-by-stone replica of Wolf's Lair, challenging them to come
and shoot you out, copper, doesn't exactly help, either, I suppose.

If you thought financial privacy was so important, you, personally, Tim,
could have done something about this, a long time ago. All by yourself,
without anyone else. And you didn't. Instead, you snipe.

Oh, well. Cypherpunks now ride Barcoloungers, I suppose.


Frankly -- if I may step aside the point of the thread, here -- since you
started this chicken-little, off-the-pig, shoot-the-"criminals",
Junior-Birdman militia kick, you're just plain boring, Tim. Tireder than
Wired, you are.

Which is a real drag to lots of folks who are still here, because you
really had a lot to say once. You taught everyone here most of the way they
think about the world, in fact. Double that for all the people who've left
the list already in the wake of your recent thermite infatuation.

Nowadays, though, I remember a very sad, but funny, Firesign Theater
takeoff on 'Desiderata' which seems to sum you up pretty well. It said
something like '...you're a fluke of the Universe, and, while you're
sitting there, looking stupid, the Universe is laughing behind your back'.

That is, you pop off with the occasional "kill the bastards", or the
occasional "pearl" of business wisdom like the above, and we'd laugh,
except that you're no funnier than any other incontinent old gentleman,
yelling at the local skatepunks trashing his flowerbeds. Or minefields. Or
whatever.

> About the wisdom of announcing a takeover publically I'll say nothing.

That's nice. Glad to hear such a well-founded opinion.

Except, of course, that that's the way it's usually done, Tim.  People
raise their money, they get their partners signed up into a legal
arrangement of some kind, they hoist the Jolly Roger if necessary, and they
make a tender offer. In public. No veiled intimations of a "Secret Santa",
somewhere in the wings, come to save the day.

Transactions, for the most part, are based on reputation, or have you
forgotten that as well?


And, yes, Tim, I actually do know how it's done. I've seen it. I've been
right there, albiet with an extremely junior clerk's-eye view, and almost
two decades of hindsight. :-). Certainly, close enough to know when someone
isn't blowing smoke, which is what I'm increasingly convinced I see, here,
so far.

And, sadly, what's really more important here, is that I now know you
*haven't* seen this kind of thing done, Tim, and you don't know any more
about what you've been saying about mergers, or bankruptcy, than what
you've read in the papers. If you read the papers at all anymore, that is.


So, to return to the point, here, if anyone's going to make a run at
DigiCash, they should do something, or, to fracture some scatology, get off
the pot. They should not go stomping around public mailing lists saying the
equivalent of, "I have secret partners and we have secret plans, and we're
going to free the blind signature patent for all to use".

So, please, give me a break. About the "secret santa" bit, anyway. It would
be very nice indeed to pry the blind signature patent out from the beached,
debt-ridden carcass that DigiCash has now become, :-), and I think that
it's going to happen sooner or later.

Whether a bunch of cypherpunks, with or without Timothy C. May, will ride
up in a cloud of dust and save the day remains, of course, to be seen.
Frankly, I'd rather expect that the financial crypto community will step up
to the plate, here, but we'll see.


And, so, with the above, -- and now final, as far as I'm concerned -- pile
of, well, clueless dreck, from you, Tim, I've reached an amazing decision.

Something I never thought would happen, even with all the excrement you've
heaped in my, and other people's, general direction over the years. To
paraphrase the joke about the optimist child at the Christmas tree, there
was usually a pony in mess somewhere.

But, with this, it has finally happened, Tim.

Welcome to *my* killfile.


Given the quality of your contributions to this cypherpunks lately, I
expect that I won't miss you very much, and that is a very sorry shame indeed.


Cheers,
Robert Hettinga

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.5.5

iQEVAwUBNnhNrcUCGwxmWcHhAQEqygf/a6Ml50SqXJHfWxWrHFI4AfzSleL7bGzZ
laKlUP3sl7HcDz43D58gMZmFJblYO/1cucj4VoK8SL1+EqiqE/3DH3G4yCSAbaFO
YaaJ3W9V1xVdxoSk9alWPN0kQfLdSJeF+CZsGqCorhhDXIAqm6X4z86B7IZLDltG
KaY3ENxomCE64fM6PZRBplz4dRW14K8OrxbshPoR07Lg4sjMCG8hUzHHq2uq+VcL
CrPWtrHYynWSCZagKUHZeWekm1QxheZssYcTG4kar7NHq76wooLexWkmC8lGhDpu
gVDL1wtnzlqBkDKa22M6x98sHBOwC56gfkeExPwGaRFHqcU6fUYPuw==
=6xeW
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Frederick Burroughs 
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 10:52:17 +0800
To: Cypherpunks 
Subject: Re: Clinton Attacks Iraq
In-Reply-To: <199812162220.QAA11058@wire.insync.net>
Message-ID: <367868B6.5146E3@shentel.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





Eric Cordian wrote:

> Looks like Bubba has launched a massive strike on Iraq to draw attention
> from his cocksucking problems.

No, I blame his irritability on lack of nookie. Unable to get his his willy
slick of late, it's not surprising he needs to kick the dog, or lob some
ordinance into the backyard of the middle eastern assholes nextdoor. Maybe
if he gets drunk enough he'll take some pot shots... Yeehaa!

Bush had an overactive thyroid (fighting wars from speedboats), Clinton had
an overactive, but recently unrequited cock (fighting wars from the woodshed
while being impeached). The truth is this is a war that must be fought no
matter what clown is in the White House.

The hard fact is Iraq is of the utmost geopolitical importance, it's on the
agenda, and to hell with fellatio inspired impeachment. In a word,
everything's come to a head. Saddam's a target, his demonization by the
western press has been thorough. This is a test of our resources to target
one man, a superpower against one man, there is no God. Gunboat diplomacy my
good man, gunboat diplomacy.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 12:05:24 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Potential Crypto Development Sites (re: Stallman)
Message-ID: <199812170324.VAA15307@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 21:52:00 -0500
> From: Robert Hettinga 
> Subject: Richard Stallman: Encryption software volunteers needed in
>  countries without export control

> List of countries signing the Wassenaar agreement:
> 
> Argentina, Australia, Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Canada, Czech Republic,
> Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Italy,
> Japan, Republic of Korea, Luxembourg, Netherland, New Zealand, Norway,
> Poland, Portugal, Romania, Russia, Slovakia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland,
> Turkey, Ukraine, United Kingdom and United States.
> 
> --- end forwarded text

Belize isn't on the list and it's only 2 hours from Houston. Citizenship can
be had for as little as $40k US. They market themselves as a tax haven.
Apparently anyone living there for 5 years can qualify for citizenship.


    ____________________________________________________________________

          What raises the standard of living may well diminish the
          quality of life.

                                                 The Club of Rome

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 11:55:05 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Richard Stallman: Encryption software volunteers needed incountries without export control
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


To: cryptography@c2.net
Subject: Richard Stallman: Encryption software volunteers needed in
countries without export control
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 19:35:07 -0500
From: "Perry E. Metzger" 
Sender: owner-cryptography@c2.net



Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 03:40:23 -0700 (MST)
Message-Id: 
From: Richard Stallman 
To: info-gnu@gnu.org
Subject: Encryption software volunteers needed in countries without export
control

[Please re-post this as widely as possible, wherever appropriate]

The US has scored a major victory in the global campaign against
freedom and privacy rights, by persuading 33 major countries to
prohibit export of free encryption software.  These countries are the
ones that are party to the Wassenaar agreement (see list below).

The agreement is not final; putting it into effect would require new
laws or regulations in each country, and in some countries it might be
possible to organize politically to block this.  If you are a citizen
of a country listed below, please talk with your legislators and urge
them to refuse to ratify the agreement.  See www.epic.org for more
information.

However, anticipating the possibility that these laws will go through,
we need to find volunteers in countries which are not signatories to
take over development and distribution of encryption software such as
the GNU Privacy Guard and PSST.  We are looking for (1) an ftp site
from which to distribute the software, and (2) people to carry on
the development work.

If you have contacts in any non-signatory country, please circulate
this message as widely as possible in your country, looking for people
who might want to volunteer for GNU software development.
Non-signatory countries that come to mind as possible places where
free encryption software can be developed include Mexico, India,
Croatia, China, South Africa, and perhaps Israel.  However, any
country is ok if its laws do not prevent the work.

Big Brother has won a battle, but the war is not over.


List of countries signing the Wassenaar agreement:

Argentina, Australia, Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Canada, Czech Republic,
Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Italy,
Japan, Republic of Korea, Luxembourg, Netherland, New Zealand, Norway,
Poland, Portugal, Romania, Russia, Slovakia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland,
Turkey, Ukraine, United Kingdom and United States.

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 05:48:02 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Network Associates' KRA Partner status
Message-ID: <199812162102.WAA09792@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jim Gillogly writes:

>I remember hearing this at the time.  The cited article (8 Dec 1997) has
>supporting quotes from NAI's Gene Hodges.  In addition, Dave Del Torto
>wrote to the secretary of KRA last month and got a response from
>secretariat staffer Michael LoBue on 20 Nov 1998 that addresses this
>point in passing:
>
>    Indeed, some of this current 'public debate' about NAI's
>    relationship with the KRA goes back to their public statement
>    that they 'withdrew' from the organization. The fact of the matter
>    is that they simply did not choose to become an actual member at the
>    time the organization was formally constituted. When it was reported
>    that they withdrew, there was in fact no entity from which to withdraw.

This sounds like some legalistic spin-doctoring from the KRA to try to
minimize the political impact of the departure.  Are they really claiming
that the KRA did not exist as late as December, 1997?  See their own press
release at http://www.kra.org/clips/alliance2.html, dated October 2,
1996, describing the formation of the KRA.  See also the McAfee press
release at http://www.nai.com/about/news/press/1996/121296.asp, dated
December 12, 1996, saying that McAfee was joining the KRA, and the KRA
press release http://www.kra.org/clips/prkeyrec0597.html from May, 1997,
welcoming 22 new members.

Perhaps their story is that prior to December, 1997, the KRA had enough
existence for companies to join, but not enough for them to withdraw?

>> NAI bought TIS a few months later.  TIS was a member and in fact a leading
>> member of the KRA.  By purchasing TIS, NAI inherited its membership in
>> the KRA, and so NAI was once again a member.
>
>It was more explicit than this.  Michael LoBue said further:
>
>    Concerning Network Associates membership in the KRA, in response to your
>    question I have verified that our files contain an executed Membership
>    Agreement for Network Associates (dated July 2, 1998), as well as a properly
>    completed Application for Membership of that same date. 
>
>This is not just accepting the existing membership status of TIS.  It's
>reversing NAI's non-membership status and explicitly joining.

Keep in mind that the KRA is apparently trying to put a particular spin
on events, as is clear from their strained attempt to claim that NAI never
withdrew because their was "no entity from which to withdraw."  They want
to maximize the appearance of commercial support for their organization.

The membership applications they are referring to may just be the
paperwork needed to officially transfer the membership from TIS to NAI.
This would represent NAI's decision to continue to be a member of the
KRA but would not be a matter of joining anew; rather it would maintain
the existing relationship inherited from TIS.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 08:21:33 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: RE: Clinton Attacks Iraq
Message-ID: <199812162343.AAA25819@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eric Cordian [mailto:emc@wire.insync.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 1998 4:20 PM
> To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
> Subject: Clinton Attacks Iraq
>
> Looks like Bubba has launched a massive strike on Iraq to 
> draw attention
> from his cocksucking problems.

Spoken like a poet.  First thought, best thought.

Here's a loose haiku:

Bubba launched
a massive strike on Iraq
blowjob snag go *poof*

Excuse the abuse of style...

C.G.

--
sig space for lease




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: HyperReal-Anon 
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 08:41:42 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: RE: Nitwits
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>The depressing thing is that AOL as at least 14 million paying subscribers.
>It may even be up to 20 million. Hotmail has 30 million active accounts. The
>unilluminati are the future of the internet.
>
>Harv

Sites like AOL and Hotmail do a great service to the net: They hurd the
unilluminati onto a select few sites, making it easier to blackhole them en
masse.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Rabid Wombat 
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 15:32:37 +0800
To: Anonymous 
Subject: RE: Clinton Attacks Iraq
In-Reply-To: <199812162343.AAA25819@replay.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Was it my imagination, or did the T'Hawk strikes pause for Bubba's speech?
It seemed like they were coming into Baghdad every half hour, like
clockwork, but they seem to have skipped one half-hour's worth when Bubba
was on the air. 

-r.w.

On Thu, 17 Dec 1998, Anonymous wrote:

> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Eric Cordian [mailto:emc@wire.insync.net]
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 1998 4:20 PM
> > To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
> > Subject: Clinton Attacks Iraq
> >
> > Looks like Bubba has launched a massive strike on Iraq to 
> > draw attention
> > from his cocksucking problems.
> 
> Spoken like a poet.  First thought, best thought.
> 
> Here's a loose haiku:
> 
> Bubba launched
> a massive strike on Iraq
> blowjob snag go *poof*
> 
> Excuse the abuse of style...
> 
> C.G.
> 
> --
> sig space for lease
> 
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: HyperReal-Anon 
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 10:11:27 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: RE: Nitwits
Message-ID: <27b167df8676b4b47cc5d0122e7e3589@anonymous>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>Sites like AOL and Hotmail do a great service to the net: They hurd the
>unilluminati onto a select few sites, making it easier to blackhole them en
>masse.

This is what happens when you read literature on GNU Hurd while you're
posting.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Gabby12235@aol.com
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 18:28:11 +0800
Subject: Publishing Company For Sale!!!
Message-ID: <92620059.3678ca40@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Brown, R Ken" 
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 19:08:45 +0800
To: "'Joel O'Connor'" 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Someone claiming to be Joel O'Connor wrote:

> It only took one to turn India around.  Ghandi nearly 
> starved to death, used nothing but passifism and won
>  the race man.  

I'm sorry but this is nonsense. Ghandi may have been a great man and an
inspiration to us all but he *lost*. His first big political involvment was
trying to stop the British from allowing the Boers to take away political
rights from the "coloured" and Asian  population of Cape Colony. The Brits
caved into the white South Africans and we all know what happened next.
Then he tried to get them (well us I suppose, since I'm British) to "quit
India" in the 1920s & 30s - failed again, we got out 2 decades later, after
WW2,  when a British government was elected that was anti-colonialist. You
wouldn't have been able to persuade the 1945-1951 government to stay *in*
India. In fact they were so eager to get out they probably caused more
problems by the speed of the withdrawal.  Ghandi wanted a secular federation
of all India - but instead there was partition, the secession of an
inherently unviable Muslim state that was bound to end up with either civil
war or fundamentalism (and in the end got both, at least for some of the
time), and at least hundreds of thousands, and possibly many millions of
deaths that could have been avoided.  And then of course he himself was
killed.  And now India has the BJP.  Ghandi was perhaps *right* but he
certainly didn't "win the race".

Ken (and not his employers)





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: report@top-10.com
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 18:42:00 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Visibility Report
Message-ID: <199812170944.EAA32104@storm.rorap.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Your report was prepared using the search engines listed below.
The term used for each search is listed at the beginning of the
report block for that term.  The #'s beside each search engine
represent the position in which that engine reported your web site.
Your web site's URL:  (http://www.jungle.com/michael/culture/books/bookshelf.html)
This report was generated on 12/16/1998.


Search Terms: Propaganda and Political Art New Jersey
-----------------------------------
  9 -- Yahoo!
  0 -- Excite
  0 -- AOL NetFind
  0 -- Lycos
  0 -- InfoSeek
  0 -- Northern Light
  0 -- Planet Search
  0 -- AltaVista
  0 -- Netscape NetFind
  0 -- Web Crawler

This report only reports positioning within about the top 30
listings.  A listing further down is not of much use as most users
will only view results from the top 10 to 20 positions.  Remember
that you can always request another report, for any web site, for
any search term, from our site, and it's always free.
A complete expliation of this report is available at:
http://www.top-10.com, and click on the "resources" link.
====================================================================
Thanks for using our report.  It is available to you at any time
for no charge.
			TOP 10 PROMOTIONS
		      http://www.top-10.com
               "WE'LL GET YOUR BUSINESS TO THE TOP"
             252-537-9222 (phone) -- 252-537-3125 (fax)
====================================================================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Albert P. Franco, II" 
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 23:20:56 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Throwing Sand into the All-Seeing Eye (further ideas)
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981217144631.006d1ae4@209.204.247.83>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Snipped some musings about throwing the NSA a lot of worthless bones to
chew on...

>We could rotate the tags around, but if we send too many of these, they can
>throw you into the above category.
>
>You could post them anonymously, which makes it much harder for them catalog,
>so they will be forced to look at the traffic, when and if, they need to
search
>it.
>
>You could have some program randomly alter your email address, but patterns
>would be found to filter you out that way.
>
>We could also use remailers to create lots of cover traffic going to
>/dev/null.  This would be far more interesting, especially if we add some
sort
>of poetry writer that spits out spook talk and update it occasionally with
>current event keywords.  Then again, they could filter the messages that
go to
>/dev/null, or find patterns in the spook poetry generators...  
>

Now how about instead of dev/null you periodically create free e-mail
accounts at hotmail, juno, etc, and send the mail to these "real"
addresses. That should give them a little more work at sorting through the
chaff. I f there were say 5,000 accounts on each of the top ten free mail
sites receiving say 500 chaff letters every day for a month before
switching to new account names that would amount to about 25,000,000 mails
per day on accounts that would just disappear after awhile. Anyone know how
many anonymous remailers there are? I wonder if these bots could be thrown
in to help generate the cover traffic to boost anonymity with out sucking
up all the available bandwidth. 

It would seem that this would help address two problems. The problem of
insufficient cover traffic on the anonymous remailers and the issue of
keeping the jerks at the NSA so busy sniffing up junk that they become less
effective at snooping on legitimate communications.

Certainly the load of 5,000 bogus accounts on hotmail, which has reportedly
in excess of 20 million accounts, would be minimal.

I think the biggest issue is whether or not there are sufficient resources
to generate this volume of mail through a wide enough re-mailer base to
thwart filtering without identifying any particular group of people as the
originators of the letters.

I think a long term surge of 25 million letters per day which meet their
snoop standards would have to create some kind of a bogging effect on their
capacities. I don't know what the real numbers are but it might be
interesting if say 50 million or fewer total e-mails per day are "captured"
for storage by the spooks on a normal day. At that level a surge of 25
million per day would be a 50% increase for handling. What would be the
response of the NSA?

Some will say that it would be no big deal for the NSA since they could
just add more hardware. But I think that any time we can make the haystack
significantly bigger that should theoretically make the needle harder to
find. And since Cpunks aren't criminals we certainly wouldn't be creating
more needles!

APF




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Marshall Clow 
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 08:06:33 +0800
To: Walter Burton 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 4:20 PM -0500 12/17/98, Walter Burton wrote:
> 
> The source for 5.x is freely available, and I expect the source for (at
> least the free versions of) 6.x will soon be.  Now, as far as I'm aware,
> the source for PGP Disk is not yet available, and probably won't be,
> since that's a commercial product.  Not that that's a GOOD reason ;).

Go to , and search for PGP.
You can buy the printed source code for PGP 6, including PGP Disk.
-- Marshall

Marshall Clow     Adobe Systems   

Freedom isn't being able to do what you like, it's allowing someone else
to do or say something you hate and supporting their right to do so.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Holland 
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 08:42:13 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: McAfee PGP 6.0.2
In-Reply-To: <199812171941.UAA02032@replay.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981217154338.00939630@mail.earthlink.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>McAfee has announced that they are giving away the commercial version of
PGP 6.0.2 for free for a limited time.

Where is the free version available?  Neither the McAfee or Network
Associates web sites mentioned this.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Walter Burton 
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 06:33:18 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: RE: PGP Disk for free??
Message-ID: <013D438ED22ED2119F630060082F763C0DD608@kenny.pipestream.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Anonymous [mailto:nobody@replay.com]
> Sent: Thursday, December 17, 1998 2:42 PM
> To: cypherpunks@toad.com
> Subject: 
> 
> 
> McAfee has announced that they are giving away the commercial 
> version of PGP 6.0.2 for free for a limited time.  It also 
> includes PGP Disk, which creates virtual encrypted drives.  
> PGP 6.0.2 also claims to have anti-TEMPEST protection, by 
> using a special font.  My question is: what's the catch?

They feel guilty 'cause there was a flaw in previous versions of PGP
Disk.  It's a gesture of good will.

> It is a fact that Network Associates (McAfee's owner) is a 
> member of the Key Recovery Aliance.  Is the decision to give 
> the software away part of something that's not being said 
> (i.e. reduced security) 

The source for 5.x is freely available, and I expect the source for (at
least the free versions of) 6.x will soon be.  Now, as far as I'm aware,
the source for PGP Disk is not yet available, and probably won't be,
since that's a commercial product.  Not that that's a GOOD reason ;).

> or did I spend $39.99 on PGP and an 
> additional $39.99 on PGP Disk for no reason because it would 
> become available for free two weeks later?

Bingo.  Perhaps they'll give you a refund!

> And, has anyone tested the anti-TEMPEST features in PGP 6.0.2?

Not I.  That would take some serious equipment!  I doubt even Phil
Zimmerman or Network Associates has tested it thoroughly.  Throughout
the online help regarding the Secure Viewer and Tempest attacks, they
use phrases like "MAY reduce levels of radio frequency emissions" and
"MAY make it harder for the signals to be remotely detected" (my
emphasis).

---
Walter S. Burton 
For my PGP public key, send a message with the subject "get public key."
Fingerprint: 3E28 7C81 536C 92FE ED01  6B70 0E37 DB49 9F6C 8DF8




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 09:28:32 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: Re: Comrade Klinton at it again
Message-ID: <3679A712.25C4@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Don't you mean "Iraqui" Embassy?

Or is this thing spreading? I hope not.

Comrade Klinton is no worse than Comrades Hyde, Ingliss, Gingrich,
Coble, Bono, well you know the rest. They all call themselves statesmen
but they are pretty damned pedestrian.

****************

Comrade Klinton just started another bombing run, curiously after it
became
widely known that the impeachment hearings wouldn't be delayed until
next
week. So far, every target hit has been in camera range. NBC said that
the
Iranian Embassy might have been hit by a Tomahawk.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Pallas Anonymous Remailer 
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 10:23:59 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: bears repeating, part 2
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



another try:

An alternative to the pyramid form of organization is the cell system. In the past, many political
groups (both left and right) have used the cell system to further their objectives. Two examples will
suffice. During the American Revolution, "committees of correspondence" were formed throughout
the Thirteen Colonies. Their purpose was to subvert the government and thereby aid the cause of
independence. The "Sons of Liberty," who made a name for themselves by dumping government
taxed tea into the harbor at Boston, were the action arm of the committees of correspondence. Each
committee was a secret cell that operated totally independently of the other cells. Information on the
government was passed from committee to committee, from colony to colony, and then acted upon
on a local basis. Yet even in those bygone days of poor communication, of weeks to months for a
letter to be delivered, the committees, without any central direction whatsoever, were remarkably
similar in tactics employed to resist government tyranny. It was, as the first American Patriots knew,
totally unnecessary for anyone to give an order for anything. Information was made available to each
committee, and each committee acted as it saw fit.

A recent example of the cell system taken from the left wing of politics are the Communists. The
Communists, in order to get around the obvious problems involved in pyramidal organization,
developed to an art the cell system. They had numerous independent cells which operated completely
isolated from one another and particularly with no knowledge of each other, but were orchestrated
together by a central headquarters. For instance, during WWII, in Washington, it is known that there
were at least six secret Communist cells operating at high levels in the United States government (plus
all the open Communists who were protected and promoted by President Roosevelt), however, only
one of the cells was rooted out and destroyed. How many more actually were operating, no one can
say for sure.

The Communist cells which operated in the U.S. until late 1991 under Soviet control could have at
their command a leader who held a social position which appeared to be very lowly. He could be,
for example, a busboy in a restaurant, but in reality a colonel or a general in the Soviet Secret
Service, the KGB. Under him could be a number of cells, and a person active in one cell would
almost never have knowledge of individuals who were active in other cells; in fact, the members of
the other cells would be supporting that cell which was under attack and ordinarily would lend very
strong support to it in many ways. This is at least part of the reason, no doubt, that whenever in the
past Communists were attacked in this country, support for them sprang up in many unexpected
places.

The effective and efficient operation of a cell system after the Communist model is, of course,
dependent upon central direction, which means impressive organization, funding from the top, and
outside support, all of which the Communists had. Obviously, American patriots have none of these
things at the top or anywhere else, and so an effective cell organization based upon the Soviet system
of operation is impossible.

Two things become clear from the above discussion. First, that the pyramid form of organization can
be penetrated quite easily and it thus is not a sound method of organization in situations where the
government has the resources and desire to penetrate the structure, which is the situation in this
country. Secondly, that the normal qualifications for the cell structure based upon the Red model
does not exist in the U.S. for patriots. This understood, the question arises "What method is left for
those resisting state tyranny?"

The answer comes from Col. Amoss who proposed the "Phantom Cell" mode of organization which
he described as Leaderless Resistance. A system of organization that is based upon the cell
organization, but does not have any central control or direction, that is in fact almost identical to the
methods used by the committees of correspondence during the American Revolution. Utilizing the
Leaderless Resistance concept, all individuals and groups operate independently of each other, and
never report to a central head-quarters or single leader for direction or instruction, as would those
who belong to a typical pyramid organization.

At first glance, such a form of organization seems unrealistic, primarily because there appears to be
no organization. The natural question thus arises as to how are the "Phantom Cells" and individuals to
cooperate with each other when there is no inter-communication or central direction? The answer to
this question is that participants in a program of leaderless resistance through "Phantom Cell" or
individual action must know exactly what they are doing and how to do it. It becomes the
responsibility of the individual to acquire the necessary skills and information as to what is to be done.
This is by no means as impractical as it appears, because it is certainly true that in any movement all
persons involved have the same general outlook, are acquainted with the same philosophy, and
generally react to given situations in similar ways. The previous history of the committees of
correspondence during the American Revolution shows this to be true.

Since the entire purpose of leaderless resistance is to defeat state tyranny (at least in so far as this
essay is concerned), all members of phantom cells or individuals will tend to react to objective events
in the same way through usual tactics of resistance. Organs of information distribution such as
newspapers, leaflets, computers, etc., which are widely available to all, keep each person informed
of events, allowing for a planned response that will take many variations. No one need issue an order
to anyone. Those idealists truly committed to the cause of freedom will act when they feel the time is
ripe, or will take their cue from others who precede them. While it is true that much could be said
against this kind of structure as a method of resistance, it must be kept in mind that leaderless
resistance is a child of necessity. The alternatives to it have been shown to be unworkable or
impractical. Leaderless resistance has worked before in the American Revolution, and if the truly
committed put it to use themselves, it will work now.

#!/usr/local/bin/perl -0777-- -export-a-crypto-system-sig -RC4-3-lines-PERL
@k=unpack('C*',pack('H*',shift));for(@t=@s=0..255){$y=($k[$_%@k]+$s[$x=$_
]+$y)%256;&S}$x=$y=0;for(unpack('C*',<>)){$x++;$y=($s[$x%=256]+$y)%256;
&S;print pack(C,$_^=$s[($s[$x]+$s[$y])%256])}sub S{@s[$x,$y]=@s[$y,$x]}




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Alex de Joode 
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 02:28:01 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: XS4ALL
Message-ID: <199812171734.SAA24745@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




It seems that XS4ALL has been bought by KPN (The Dutch Telco)

-aj-




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Harvey Rook (Exchange)" 
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 11:21:58 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: RE: "They've started bombing Mars! I repeat, they're bombing Mars!"
Message-ID: <2FBF98FC7852CF11912A0000000000010D19ADE1@DINO>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



The scene from Babylon 5 is hardly original. The same thing happened in
Vietnam, The Korean War, WW2, WW1....

This is war, and in war innocent people die to further the cause of the
leaders. You just have to hope and pray that some good will come out of it.

Harv.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Anonymous [mailto:nobody@remailer.ch]
> 
> "We just intercepted a coded transmission from Earth Force 
> Command. They've
> started bombing Mars! I repeat, they're bombing Mars!"
> 
> (scene of two fighters on approach to a biodome)
> 
> Omega One: "Standing by. Weapons hot."
> Radio: "Don't do it! We have women and children down here! 
> Don't do it!"
> Radio2: "Omega One, you are clear for drop."
> 
> (weapons fly, killing a few thousand innocent men, women, and 
> children.)
> 
> It amazes me how much similarity Babylon 5 has to reality. Is 
> Clinton a fan
> who fancies himself as President Clark? I'm starting to worry.
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Helm 
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 11:23:10 +0800
Subject: Re: McAfee PGP 6.0.2
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199812180248.SAA17913@fionn.es.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Max Inux writes:
> it goto the pgp pages (easy link -> www.pgp.com) download PGP For personal
> privacy, it is under that link.

I think you're going  to be disappointed if you go there;
the pgp web page has been swallowed by nai's, & download
leads you to the new McAfee store, which is surely a nominee
for "web pages that suck"(tm).  No free downloads.  There may 
be something under one of the evaluation pages, but frankly
the whole site turned me off & I didn't care to look so.  It's hard
to find any mention of pgp at all, actually.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Gillogly 
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 11:54:12 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Comrade Klinton at it again
Message-ID: <3679C4D9.C2E1596@acm.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Somebody said:
> As I recall, the name "Desert Fox" was a nickname held by a Nazi general.
> Fitting, that.

Fitting?  I find the occasional anti-American hyperbole around here
rather depressing.  I'm reminded of 30-year-old engineers talking
about the depression of the 80's!  If you don't see the difference
between the US and Nazi Germany, you need to do a lot more reading.
While the anti-privacy activities of the administration and law
enforcement are threatening and need to be resisted, they are by no
means on a par with the excesses of the Nazi leadership.

In any case, Gen. Erwin Rommel (the Desert Fox) was never a Nazi.

-- 
	Jim Gillogly
	Trewesday, 28 Foreyule S.R. 1998, 02:48
	12.19.5.14.0, 6 Ahau 13 Mac, First Lord of Night




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 12:39:49 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: [CTRL] Polygamous Paradise!
Message-ID: <199812180318.TAA03816@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: Lyn McCloskey 
Subject: [CTRL] Polygamous Paradise!
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 12:35:12 -0500
To: CTRL@LISTSERV.AOL.COM

 -Caveat Lector-

Take a number...

http://www.tabloid.net/1998/12/09/island_981209.html

NEW UTOPIA RISES FROM THE SEA
'Prince' Lazarus Promises to Save Citizens from Death, Taxes

MATT WELCH reports

[Dec. 9, 1998] -- Don't worry, people: Despite delays caused by Hurricane
Mitch, New Utopia will still rise from the waters of the sea in time to
beat the millennial apocalypse.

Lazarus Long, a wealthy 67-year-old Oklahoman whose name was Howard Turney
until three years ago, says his longtime dream of constructing a
libertarian island paradise on top of three shallow Caribbean reefs has
been only slightly postponed by the hurricane's effects on New Utopia's
neighbors.

"We were in the process of negotiating a trade treaty with the Honduran
government officials," New Utopia Information Officer Grace Caswell wrote
on the island's website. "Prince Lazarus had gone to Washington to meet
with the Honduran ambassador to the U.S. He, in turn, was to present it to
President Flores on November 1st. That is the day that the hurricane
'Mitch' struck their country."

"Honduras claims a 200-mile exclusive economic zone, so without recognition
of New Utopia as a sovereign nation we can't begin construction without
risk of being annexed by Honduras at some future date."

If it sounds like these people are talking about building their own country
on a fake island in the sea -- well, that's because they are.

Once an agreement with Honduras is reached, the founders say, the reefs
will be fitted with steel girders and gigantic platforms of pre-fabricated
concrete. Construction of air and sea ports will commence, followed by
housing, a university, an anti-aging clinic, offshore banks and a casino.
Citizens will live in a tax-free constitutional monarchy not too far off
the coasts of Mexico and Honduras. Marijuana will be legal and polygamy
tolerated.

The Ageless Sovereign

His Royal Highness Prince Lazarus Long wants it known that he is not
joking. As Howard Turney, he had a long and successful career as a maverick
businessman after initial stints as a cowboy and soldier. He was in the
restaurant biz, marketed groceries, farmed shrimp and sold used generators,
before having his life changed by the human growth hormone, London's
Independent reported.

In 1990, at the age of 59, Turney was a badly aging mess, with a 44-inch
waist and shaky hands, the paper reported. After reading a report about the
magic of the then-illegal human growth hormone, Long got a connection in
Monterey, Mexico and began mainlining the stuff. Now, without exercising
seriously, he's lost the shakes, has rock-hard muscles and a 32-inch waist,
the paper said.

"I'm 66 going on 40," he told the Independent. "And I've not had any
negative side effects at all."

Moved, Turney founded a network of anti-aging clinics administering the
wonder drug, and made a bundle. It was then that he really began
identifying with one of the signature heroes of the novels of libertarian
sci-fi scribbler Robert A. Heinlein -- Lazarus Long.

In "Methuselah's Children," and especially "Time Enough for Love,"
Heinlein's Long holds forth as an ageless man of wisdom and sex, hurtling
through the centuries with fabulous naked babes on his arm, and dispensing
philosophical tidbits with wit and humor. At age 64, Howard Turney became
Lazarus Long; soon after he declared himself prince of the New Utopia.

As a dispenser of his own wisdom, Long echoes many modern-day followers of
objectivist Ayn Rand when they try to talk about foreign affairs:

"The United States used to prosper because it was relatively free in an
unfree world," he writes on the website. "Now, without changing much
itself, the U.S. is relatively unfree in a much freer world. This creates a
competitive condition, which tends to favor an enclave like Hong Kong,
which practices true free market capitalism, rather than a welfare state
like the U.S., which is committed to burdensome taxes, which penalize
success."

Long tries his hand at a sort of poetry:

"Excellence can be attained if you care more than others think is wise
Risk more than others think is safe
Dream more than others think is practical
Expect more than others think is possible."

A Tropical Venice

New Utopia already has a constitution, a board of governors and more than
500 citizens, the website says. Prospective residents need only to buy a
$1,500 five-year bond, payable at 9.5% compound annual interest. The
projected price tag on creating an island where there is now only water is
$216 billion, which will be financed by Long, citizens, prospective
businesses and old-fashioned real estate developers.

Offshore finance, tourism, medicine and education are targeted as the main
sectors of New Utopia's economy, and Long plans on building a stimulating
environment for the super-citizens.

Utopians will enjoy "classical architecture, immaculate public parks, a
comparable governing body, and a stable political structure, with the same
freedom from crime and taxation," the site says. "Resident citizens and
visitors will experience it more as a tropical 'Venice,' complete with
waterways and gondolas."

Free from messy bureaucracy like property taxes, welfare rolls and industry
regulation, residents will serve as guinea pigs for the newest drugs and
surgical techniques.

"There are things on the horizon that people today can only dream about,"
Long told the Independent. "We are not that far from being able to live
multiples of what we look at now as the maximum lifespan. ... [There are]
things I can't tell you about because they were told me in confidence. ...
Tests and studies are going on. ... Turn your tape recorder off."

For now, New Utopia planners will continue processing immigration requests
from their office in East Tulsa, Oklahoma. The first concrete platform is
now scheduled for January, though the date has now been pushed back at
least six different times. And the pesky Hondurans, currently distracted by
the brutal wreckage of Hurricane Mitch, still need to recognize New
Utopia's sovereignty.

Still, "We are steadfast in our date of December 1, 1999 as the celebration
of our birth as a nation. Even if all the desired infrastructure is not in
place, it will be in the construction phase, the airport will be finished
and the government will be in office."
-----------------
Get in line at the official website:  http://www.new-utopia.com/

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==========
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance-not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

========================================================================
To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] LISTSERV@LISTSERV.AOL.COM

To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] LISTSERV@LISTSERV.AOL.COM

Om




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 12:39:38 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: [CTRL] The Siege: PsyOps Movie Prepares U.S. for Martial Law
Message-ID: <199812180318.TAA03827@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: RoadsEnd@AOL.COM
Subject: [CTRL] The Siege: PsyOps Movie Prepares U.S. for Martial Law
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 13:06:29 EST
To: CTRL@LISTSERV.AOL.COM

 -Caveat Lector-

from:
http://www.zolatimes.com/V2.42/pageone.html
Laissez Faire City Times
- Volume 2 Issue 42
The Laissez Faire City Times
December 14, 1998 - Volume 2, Issue 42
Editor & Chief: Emile Zola
-----
The Siege: PsyOps Movie Prepares U.S. for Martial Law

by Uri Dowbenko


The Siege is a slick commercial for the American Police State.

Starting with actual newsclips intermixed with movie footage, a radical
fundamentalist Muslim cleric is taken hostage. President Clinton -- out
of context -- says "I am outraged by it," a speech he made after the
Oklahoma City Bombing. Then he says, "Those who did it must not be
allowed to go unpunished." That was the stump speech for his so-called
Anti-Terrorism Bill, which didn't have a chance of passing before the
Bombing. The mix of "real" newsclips intercut with movie footage -- a
muezzin's calls to prayer and subsequent scenes of slaughter in the
desert -- makes an unsubtle direct correlation between Muslims and
terrorism.

Cut to Manhattan. FBI man Anthony Hubbard (Denzel Washington) has to
deal with a hostage crisis and a bus bomb which turns out to be a ruse.
His partner is Lebanese, an Arab-American named Frank Haddad (Tony
Shalhoub) who is gung-ho and acts as a translator -- until they grab his
kid and put him in the New York Concentration Camp. Understandably that
sours him on the FBI.

Soon enough there's interagency rivalry with CIA woman Elise Kraft
(Annette Bening). She tells the FBI man that "we're on the same team,"
but they both know it's a lie. He tells her "CIA has no charter to
operate domestically." Yuck yuck -- as if that ever kept the CIA from
engaging in criminal activities on US soil.

The subtext of the movie, grounded in real-life history, is that CIA
financed and trained indigenous "rebel" movements around the world, then
unceremoniously betrayed them when US policy changed. The betrayed CIA
"terrorists" then typically returned to US soil becoming pawns in
elaborate spy agency games, which most recently resulted in the New York
World Trade Center Bombing and the Oklahoma City Bombing.

Later, in a flash of realization about her own culpability, the CIA
woman says to Samir (Sami Bouajila), one of the suspected "terrorists":
"Don't tell me we financed your operation?" He smiles disbelievingly at
her naivete.

Disinformation rules in The Siege. Here are the most obvious propaganda
factoids.

1. Demonizing the Militia. Continuing the mainstream-media propaganda,
Denzel Washington asks his fellow feds in the FBI office, "You think
it's militia?" "Not their style," they answer, as if most militas were
capable of "terrorism" without the active participation by undercover
CIA, FBI, or BATF agent provocateurs.

2. Demonizing the Internet. "Everybody on the Internet knows
explosives," says Washington, spreading the lie about how the Internet
is a tool of subversion and therefore must be controlled. Department of
Justice has lobbied long and hard for anti-internet, anti-cryptography
legislation.

3. Demonizing Cash. "Where does a guy like you come up with ten thousand
dollars?" the FBI man berates the Arab suspect, implying that cash
anywhere is immediately suspect. According to US State Propaganda, only
"terrorists" or "money launderers" use cash. This reinforces the
suspicion in moviegoers' minds that only "criminals" would have any
concerns about privacy.

General Devereaux (Bruce Willis) takes over when a state of emergency
and martial law is declared in Manhattan. There's a couple of throwaway
lines -- complete with requisite handwringing -- about Posse Comitatus
-- the law which mandates that US troops can not be used against US
citizens -- and how President Lincoln suspended habeus corpus, an
unchallenged precedent for martial law.

Willis says "We can't go in until the president invokes the War Powers
Act."

Does that mean the country is still operating under war and emergency
powers? Dr. Eugene Schroeder's controversial book Constitution: Fact or
Fiction (Buffalo Creek Press, PO BOx 2424, Cleburne, Texas 76033)
explains this provocative thesis. He says that the reason why the US has
gone downhill, becoming in essence an unconstitutional dictatorship, is
because "since March 9, 1933, the United States has been in a state of
declared National Emergency," according to Senate Report 93-549.

The Siege is really a turf war -- not between gangs -- but between Feds.
It's FBI vs. CIA vs. National Security Council vs. America. The civil
rights context -- Is martial law justified? Under what circumstances? --
is merely window dressing for the real question -- How will the Feds
split up the country?

The movie shows that escalating acts of "terrorism" in America are
eerily similar to the Reichstag Fire in pre-WWII Germany, a rationale
for a totalitarian-state power grab. In America, it would simply be the
pretext for dispensing with that pesky US Constitution altogether.

Willis finally says, "I am declaring a state of martial law." US
soldiers invade Brooklyn. Lines of camo-clad grunts march across the
Brooklyn Bridge, while Humvees patrol Wall Street. After capturing an
Arab suspect, Willis says, "The time has come for one man to suffer to
save hundreds." That's his rationale for torture.

The FBI man says, "Bend the law. Shred the Constitution. If we torture
him, everything we fought for is over," implying speciously that the
"terrorists" will win. As if... as if New York Police brutality has
never been committed. As if CIA atrocities were never done. As if FBI
criminal behavior was never covered up.

Reinforcing the bogus cover story of a "truck bomb" blowing up the
Oklahoma City Federal Building, there's -- you guessed it -- a truck
bomb in The Siege which destroys One Federal Plaza in New York.

David Hoffman's indispensable book The Oklahoma City Bombing and the
Politics of Terror (Feral House, 2532 Lincoln Blvd., Suite 359, Venice,
CA 90291, 800-788-6246; $18.95) demolishes this fraudulent theory and
dissects the elements of another US Government covert ops gone bad.

In his ground-breaking 509-page book, Hoffman describes the the stewpot
of CIA, FBI, BATF, Neo-Nazi, Arab, Israeli, and German intelligence
operatives, as well as the US Government's ludicrous "Single Bomb
Theory." Like Arlen Spector's infamous "Single Bullet Theory" about the
bullet which made a U-Turn inside President Kennedy's body, this
"fertilizer bomb theory" is just as dopey. Fertilizer - - as in BS -- is
the theory's primary ingredient.

Director Ed Zwick specializes in making Establishment-propaganda movies.
Glory was about African-Americans brainwashed to fight the Civil War.
Courage Under Fire was about all kinds of Americans brainwashed to fight
in the Gulf War. Denzel Washington's a veteran; he's been in both
movies.

In The Siege, Zwick cranks up the xenophobia. Despite its pretensions as
a politically-correct parable for "tolerance," The Siege demonizes both
Arabs and Muslims. Zwick and film producer Lynda Obst have made a movie
which is state-of- the-art PsyOps for the masses. Psychological
Operations (PsyOps) is a military term for non-lethal warfare. It's just
masquerading as "entertainment."

-30-


from The Laissez Faire City Times, Vol. 2, No. 42, Dec. 14, 1998
-----
The Laissez Faire City Times is a private newspaper. Although it is
published by a corporation domiciled within the sovereign domain of
Laissez Faire City, it is not an "official organ" of the city or its
founding trust. Just as the New York Times is unaffiliated with the city
of New York, the City Times is only one of what may be several news
publications located in, or domiciled at, Laissez Faire City proper. For
information about LFC, please contact CityClerk@LFCity.com.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Published by
Laissez Faire City Netcasting Group, Inc.
Copyright 1998 - Trademark Registered with LFC Public Registrar
All Rights Reserved
-----
Aloha, He'Ping,
Om, Shalom, Salaam.
Em Hotep, Peace Be,
Omnia Bona Bonis,
All My Relations.
Adieu, Adios, Aloha.
Amen.
Roads End
Kris

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==========
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance-not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

========================================================================
To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] LISTSERV@LISTSERV.AOL.COM

To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] LISTSERV@LISTSERV.AOL.COM

Om




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 12:42:41 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: [CTRL] NSA Charter from Wiretap
Message-ID: <199812180318.TAA03838@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: "Shane A. Saylor, Eccentric Bard" 
Subject: [CTRL] NSA Charter from Wiretap
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 21:41:47 -0500
To: CTRL@LISTSERV.AOL.COM

 -Caveat Lector-

From: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu (TELECOM Moderator)
Newsgroups: comp.dcom.telecom
Subject: FOIA Jewel: Original Charter of the National Security Agency
Message-ID: <3748@accuvax.nwu.edu>
Date: 11 Feb 90 18:15:00 GMT
Organization: TELECOM Digest
Lines: 322
X-Telecom-Digest: Special Edition: Birth of NSA


{{ This is a special edition of TELECOM Digest sent to the mailing  }}
{{ list this date. Although not strictly telecom-related, I thought }}
{{ Usenet comp.dcom.telecom readers would enjoy seeing it.   PT     }}


TELECOM Digest     Sun, 11 Feb 90 11:35:18 CST    Special: Birth of NSA

Today's Topics:                             Moderator: Patrick Townson

    FOIA Jewel: Original Charter of the National Security Agency
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Feb 90 00:03 EST
From: CJS@cwru.bitnet
Subject: FOIA Jewel: Original Charter of the National Security Agency


    At  12:01 ON the  morning of November 4,  1952, a new federal
agency was born.  Unlike other such bureaucratic births, however,
this one arrived in silence.   No news coverage, no congressional
debate, no press announcement,  not even the whisper of  a rumor.
Nor could any  mention of  the new organization  be found in  the
Government Organization  Manual of  the Federal  Register or  the
Congressional Record.   Equally invisible  were the new  agency's
director, its numerous buildings, and its ten thousand employees.

    Eleven days earlier,  on October 24, President Harry S Truman
scratched  his   signature  on   the  bottom   of  a   seven-page
presidential memorandum addressed  to secretary of State  Dean G.
Acheson  and Secretary of  Defense Robert A.  Lovett.  Classified
top  secret  and  stamped  with  a  code  word  that  was  itself
classified, the  order directed the establishment of an agency to
be  known as  the National  Security Agency.    It was  the birth
certificate  for  America's  newest and  most  secret  agency, so
secret in  fact that only  a handful  in the government  would be
permitted to know of its existence.

    -James Bamford, The Puzzle Palace (1982) at 15.

*****************************************************************

                                        A 20707 5/4/54/OSO
                                        NSA TS CONTL. NO 73-00405
                                        COPY: D321

                                        Oct 24 1952

MEMORANDUM FOR:     The Secretary of State
                    The Secretary of Defense

SUBJECT:  Communications Intelligence Activities

    The  communications intelligence  (COMINT) activities  of the
United States are  a national  responsibility.  They  must be  so
organized and managed as to exploit  to the maximum the available
resources in all  participating departments  and agencies and  to
satisfy  the legitimate  intelligence  requirements  of all  such
departments and agencies.

    I  therefore designate  the Secretaries of  State and Defense
as  a Special  Committee  of the  National  Security Council  for
COMINT,  which  Committee  shall,  with  the  assistance  of  the
Director of  Central Intelligence,  establish policies  governing
COMINT  activities. and keep me advised  of such policies through
the Executive Secretary of the National Security Council.

    I  further designate  the Department of  Defense as executive
agent  of   the  Government,   for  the   production  of   COMINT
information.

    I  direct  this  Special  Committee  to  prepare   and  issue
directives which shall include the provisions set forth below and
such other provisions  as the Special Committee  may determine to
be necessary.

    1.    A   directive  to   the  United   States  Communication
Intelligence  Board  (USCIB).  This  directive will  replace the
National Security Council Intelligence Directive No. 9, and shall
prescribe   USCIB's   new   composition,   responsibilities   and
procedures in the  COMINT fields.   This directive shall  include
the following provisions.

a. USCIB  shall be reconstituted  as a body  acting for
    and  under  the  Special  Committee,  and  shall  operate  in
    accordance with the  provisions of  the new directive.   Only
    those  departments  or  agencies  represented  in  USCIB  are
    authorized to engage in COMINT activities.

b.  The  Board  shall  be  composed  of  the  following
    members:
     (1) The  Director  of  Central Intelligence,  who shall be
         the Chairman of the Board.
     (2) A representative of the Secretary of State.
     (3) A representative of the Secretary of Defense
     (4) A representative of the Director of the Federal
         Bureau of Investigation.
     (5) The Director of the National Security Agency.
     (6) A representative of the Department of the Army.
     (7) A representative of the Department of the Navy.
     (8) A representative of the Department of the Air Force.
     (9) A representative of the Central Intelligence Agency.

c. The Board shall have a  staff headed by an executive
    secretary who  shall be  appointed by the  Chairman with  the
    approval of the majority of the Board.

d. It shall be the duty of the Board to advise and make
    recommendations to the  Secretary of  Defense, in  accordance
    with  the  following procedure,  with respect  to  any matter
    relating  to communications  intelligence which  falls within
    the jurisdiction of the Director of the NSA.
     (1) The Board shall reach its decision by majority
     vote.  Each  member of  the Board shall  have one  vote
     except the  representatives of  the Secretary  of State
     and of the  Central Intelligence Agency who  shall each
     have two votes.  The  Director of Central Intelligence,
     as Chairman, will have no vote.  In the event  that the
     Board  votes  and reaches  a  decision,  any dissenting
     member  of  the  Board may  appeal  from  such decision
     within 7 days of  the Special Committee.  In  the event
     that the Board votes but fails to reach a decision, any
     member of the  Board may  appeal within 7  days to  the
     Special  Committee.    In   either  event  the  Special
     Committee   shall   review    the   matter,   and   its
     determination thereon shall  be final.  Appeals  by the
     Director  of NSA  and/or  the  representatives  of  the
     Military  Departments  shall  only  be  filed with  the
     approval of the Secretary of Defense.
     (2) If any matter is voted on by the Board but -
      (a)  no decision  is reached  and any  member
      files an appeal;
      (b)  a  decision  is  reached  in  which  the
      representative  of the  Secretary of  Defense does
      not concur and files an appeal;
     no action  shall be taken  with respect to  the subject
     matter until the  appeal is decided, provided  that, if
     the Secretary of Defense determines, after consultation
     with the Secretary  of State,  that the subject  matter
     presents a problem of an  emergency nature and requires
     immediate action,  his decision  shall govern,  pending
     the  result  of  the  appeal.   In  such  an  emergency
     situation  the  appeal  may be  taken  directly  to the
     President.
     (3)  Recommendations  of  the  Board  adopted   in
     accordance  with  the  foregoing  procedures  shall  be
     binding on the Secretary of Defense.   Except on matter
     which have been voted on by  the Board, the Director of
     NSA shall discharge  his responsibilities in accordance
     with his own  judgment, subject to the direction of the
     Secretary of Defense.
     (4) The Director  of NSA  shall make such  reports
     and furnish  such information from time to  time to the
     Board,  either orally  or in  writing, as the  Board my
     request, and shall bring to  the attention of the Board
     either in such reports or  otherwise any major policies
     or programs in advance of their adoption by him.
e. It  shall  also be  the duty  of  the Board  as to
    matters not falling within the jurisdiction of NSA;
    (1) To coordinate the  communications intelligence
    activities   among   all   departments   and   agencies
    authorized by the President to participate therein;
    (2) To initiate, to formulate policies concerning,
    and  subject  to  the  provision of  NSCID  No.  5,  to
    supervise all arrangements with  foreign governments in
    the field of communications intelligence; and
    (3)   to   consider   and   make   recommendations
    concerning   policies   relating    to   communications
    intelligence of common interest  to the departments and
    agencies, including security  standards and  practices,
    and, for  this purpose,  to investigate  and study  the
    standards  and   practices  of  such   departments  and
    agencies   in   utilizing    and   protecting    COMINT
    information.
f. Any recommendation of the Board with respect  to the
    matters  described in paragraph e above shall  be binding on
    all  departments  or  agencies of  the  Government  if  it is
    adopted  by the  unanimous vote of the  members of the Board.
    Recommendations  approved by  the majority,  but not  all, of
    the  members of the Board  shall be transmitted by  it to the
    Special  Committee for  such action as  the Special Committee
    may see fit to take.
g. The Board will meet monthly,  or oftener at the call
    of  the Chairman  or any member, and  shall determine its own
    procedures.

    2. A directive to  the Secretary of Defense.   This
    directive shall include the following provisions:

a. Subject   to  the  specific   provisions  of   this
    directive, the Secretary of  Defense may delegate in whole of
    in  part  authority  over the  Director  of  NSA  within  his
    department as he sees fit.

b. The COMINT  mission of the National  Security Agency
    (NSA) shall be to provide an effective,  unified organization
    and control of the communications  intelligence activities of
    the United States  conducted against foreign  governments, to
    provide for  integrated operational  policies and  procedures
    pertaining thereto.   As  used in  this directive,  the terms
    "communications intelligence"  or "COMINT" shall be construed
    to mean all  procedures and methods used in  the interception
    of communications  other  than foreign  press and  propaganda
    broadcasts  and  the  obtaining  of   information  from  such
    communications by other  than intended recipients,  but shall
    exclude censorship  and the  production and dissemination  of
    finished intelligence.

c. NSA shall be administered  by a Director, designated
    by  the  Secretary of  Defense  after  consultation with  the
    Joint Chiefs of Staff, who shall serve for a  minimum term of
    4  years and  who shall be  eligible for  reappointment.  The
    Director shall be a career commissioned officer of  the armed
    services  on active or reactivated status, and shall enjoy at
    least 3-star rank during the period of his incumbency.

d. Under the  Secretary of  Defense, and in  accordance
    with approved  policies of USCIB,  the Director of NSA  shall
    be responsible  for accomplishing  the mission  of NSA.   For
    this purpose all  COMINT collection and production  resources
    of  the United States  are placed  under his  operational and
    technical  control.    When  action  by  the  Chiefs  of  the
    operating  agencies of the  Services or  civilian departments
    or  agencies is  required, the Director  shall normally issue
    instruction  pertaining to  COMINT operations  through  them.
    However,  due  to the  unique technical  character  of COMINT
    operations,  the Director  is authorized  to issue  direct to
    any  operating elements  under  his operational  control task
    assignments and pertinent  instructions which are within  the
    capacity of such elements to accomplish.  He  shall also have
    direct   access  to,  and   direct  communication  with,  any
    elements  of the  Service or civilian  COMINT agencies on any
    other  matters of operational and technical control as may be
    necessary,  and he  is authorized to  obtain such information
    and intelligence material from  them as he may require.   All
    instruction  issued  by  the  Director  under  the  authority
    provided in this paragraph  shall be mandatory, subject  only
    to  appeal  to  the Secretary  of  Defense  by the  Chief  of
    Service or head of civilian department of agency concerned.
e. Specific  responsibilities  of the  Director of  NSA
    include the following:
     (1)  Formulating  necessary operational  plans and
     policies for the conduct of the U.S. COMINT activities.
     (2)   Conducting   COMINT   activities,  including
     research and development, as required to meet the needs
     of the  departments and agencies  which  are authorized
     to receive the products of COMINT.
     (3)  Determining,  and  submitting to  appropriate
     authorities, requirements for  logistic support for the
     conduct of  COMINT activities,  together with  specific
     recommendations  as  to  what each  of  the responsible
     departments  and  agencies  of  the  Government  should
     supply.
     (4) Within  NSA's field  of authorized  operations
     prescribing  requisite  security  regulations  covering
     operating   practices,   including   the  transmission,
     handling and distribution of COMINT material within and
     among  the COMINT  elements  under  his  operations  or
     technical   control;   and  exercising   the  necessary
     monitoring   and    supervisory   control,    including
     inspections if necessary, to ensure compliance with the
     regulations.
     (5)  Subject   to  the  authorities   granted  the
     Director  Central  Intelligence   under  NSCID  No.  5,
     conducting all liaison on  COMINT matters with  foreign
     governmental communications intelligence agencies.
f. To  the extent he  deems feasible and  in consonance
    with  the aims  of maximum over-all  efficiency, economy, and
    effectiveness, the Director  shall centralize  or consolidate
    the  performance  of  COMINT   functions  for  which  he   is
    responsible.  It is recognized that in  certain circumstances
    elements of the Armed Forces and other  agencies being served
    will require close COMINT support.  Where necessary for  this
    close  support,  direct  operational  control  of   specified
    COMINT  facilities  and resources  will be  delegated  by the
    Director,  during such  periods  and for  such tasks  as  are
    determined  by him,  to military commanders  or to the Chiefs
    of other agencies supported.
g. The  Director  shall exercise  such  administrative
    control  over COMINT activities as he  deems necessary to the
    effective   performance   of   his   mission.      Otherwise,
    administrative  control  of  personnel  and  facilities  will
    remain with the departments and agencies providing them.
h. The Director shall make provision for participation
    by  representatives of  each of the  departments and agencies
    eligible to receive COMINT  products in those offices of  NSA
    where  priorities  of  intercept and  processing  are finally
    planned.
i. The  Director shall  have  a civilian  deputy whose
    primary responsibility  shall be  to ensure the  mobilization
    and  effective  employment of  the best  available  human and
    scientific  resources in the  field of cryptographic research
    and development.
j. Nothing  in  this  directive  shall contravene  the
    responsibilities  of the  individual departments and agencies
    for  the  final   evaluation  of   COMINT  information,   its
    synthesis  with  information  from  other  sources,  and  the
    dissemination of finished intelligence to users.

    3. The  special nature of  COMINT actives requires that  they
    be treated  in all  respects as  being outside  the framework  of
    other  or general  intelligence  activities.   Order, directives,
    policies, or recommendations  of any  authority of the  Executive
    Branch   relating  to   the  collection,   production,  security,
    handling, dissemination, or  utilization of intelligence,  and/or
    classified material, shall  not be applicable to  COMINT actives,
    unless  specifically   so   stated  and   issued   by   competent
    departmental of agency authority represented on the Board.  Other
    National Security Council Intelligence Directive to the  Director
    of  Central  Intelligence  and  related  implementing  directives
    issued by the Director of Central Intelligence shall be construed
    as  non-applicable  to  COMINT  activities, unless  the  National
    Security Council has made  its directive specifically  applicable
    to COMINT.

     /s/ HARRY S TRUMAN


------------------------------

End of TELECOM Digest Special: Birth of NSA
*****************************





--
A person is like a religion; one face, many aspects
      --Shane A. Saylor, Eccentric Bard ICQ: 9815080
 Operator Taliesin_2 of #SacredNemeton on IRC DALnet

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==========
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance-not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

========================================================================
To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] LISTSERV@LISTSERV.AOL.COM

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Om




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 12:39:51 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: [CTRL] Fwd: DNA Sample with Every Arrest
Message-ID: <199812180318.TAA03849@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: RoadsEnd@AOL.COM
Subject: [CTRL] Fwd: DNA Sample with Every Arrest
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 23:51:31 EST
To: CTRL@LISTSERV.AOL.COM

 -Caveat Lector-

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--part0_913783891_boundary
Content-ID: <0_913783891@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII



--part0_913783891_boundary
Content-ID: <0_913783891@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2>
Content-type: message/rfc822
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Content-disposition: inline

From: DasGOAT@aol.com
Return-path: 
To: RoadsEnd@aol.com
Cc: Robalini@aol.com, nessie@sfbg.com
Subject: DNA Sample with Every Arrest
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 15:57:15 EST
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

     "Michael Meyers of the New York Civil Rights Coalition said citizens
nationwide are experiencing a crackdown on civil rights.
     ``I think this is the official ushering in of a George Orwellian society.
We will all be suspects in a matter of years.'' .


NYC Wants DNA in All Arrests

NEW YORK (AP) -- Angering civil libertarians who fear ``1984''-style tactics,
Police Commissioner Howard Safir is suggesting that police take a DNA sample
along with the fingerprints of everyone arrested.

``The innocent have nothing to fear,'' Safir said Monday. ``Only if you are
guilty should you worry about DNA testing.''

But civil rights leaders said even the innocent should worry about the plan,
which some contend amounts to an unreasonable search and seizure in violation
of the Fourth Amendment. The proposal would need approval from the state
Legislature to become reality.

``I think this is the official ushering in of a George Orwellian society in
New York City,'' said Michael Meyers, executive director of the New York Civil
Rights Coalition.

Mayor Rudolph Giuliani's administration has come under fire recently for
cutting City Hall off from virtually all public access and for installing more
security cameras to monitor streets.

Norman Siegel, executive director of the New York Civil Liberties Union, said
the DNA proposal is the latest effort by the Giuliani administration to erode
civil rights.

``If someone wants to march and doesn't have a permit, or if someone goes to
the steps of City Hall to read a proclamation, he or she will get arrested,''
Siegel said. ``Under Safir's DNA proposal, the government will obtain their
DNA, and that's a frightening prospect. Why should the government have that
information on that individual?''

Giuliani called opponents of the plan captives of ``old left-wing thinking.''

``The taking of DNA evidence -- from the point of view of anyone but the most
excessive knee-jerk ideologues -- is a very, very helpful thing, it's a good
thing,'' he said. ``DNA can help prove who actually committed violent crime;
it can help prove paternity.''

Under Safir's plan, which he described Monday to students at the Bronx High
School of Science, police would take a swabbing from inside a suspect's cheek
-- a standard method of collecting DNA -- and put test results into a database
for future reference against repeat offenders.

DNA, the unique genetic blueprint of each person, is considered by legal and
forensics experts to be as reliable as fingerprints and far more useful in
identifying culprits of certain crimes.

Safir said a suspect's DNA sample would be destroyed if he were acquitted or
cleared.

Many states allow DNA testing of certain convicts, New York among them. Only
in Louisiana does the testing apply to people under arrest.

Meyers said citizens nationwide are experiencing a crackdown on civil rights.
``We will all be suspects in a matter of years,'' he said.


--part0_913783891_boundary--

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==========
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance-not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

========================================================================
To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] LISTSERV@LISTSERV.AOL.COM

To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] LISTSERV@LISTSERV.AOL.COM

Om




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 12:39:06 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: [CTRL] Y2K Fear May Trigger Early Panic
Message-ID: <199812180318.TAA03860@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: Lyn McCloskey 
Subject: [CTRL] Y2K Fear May Trigger Early Panic
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 17:50:58 -0500
To: CTRL@LISTSERV.AOL.COM

 -Caveat Lector-

Technology Headlines Monday December 14 10:18 AM ET

Fear Of Year 2000 Computer Bug May Trigger Early Panic

By Neil Winton, Science and Technology Correspondent

LONDON (Reuters) - Even if the ``millennium bomb'' does not explode in the
world's computers just over a year from now, 1999 is likely to see rising
panic as people take precautions against computer failure triggered by the
year 2000.

Experts say the most vulnerable countries include Japan, France, Russia and
Brazil and the most vulnerable sectors are utilities, especially power
generation.

``Next year we will see periods of calm broken by occasional news stories
predicting computer systems failures,'' said Ross Anderson of Cambridge
University's Computer Security Research Center. ``My own feeling is that
around August or September panic will start, with hoarding of food and bank
notes. Then the whole thing becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.''

The time bomb has trivial origins. In the early days of computing, programs
saved what was then precious space by abbreviating years to the last two
digits.

They knew this could cause problems at the turn of the century because
computers would read ``00'' as ``1900'' rather than ``2000'' and crash or
spew out flawed data. But they thought these programs would be history by
then as technology raced ahead.

They were wrong. Now the fear is that old data systems carrying the
millennium bomb or bug could trigger disasters around the world in
everything from defense, transport and telecommunications to energy and
financial services.

As 1999 progresses, early trigger dates are likely to provide sneak
previews of the chaos that may hit as clocks strike midnight on Dec. 31.
The first is Jan. 1, 1999. Programs used in some accounting systems operate
a rolling year ahead as they set renewal dates for insurance premiums or
bank loans and may crash when they reach out beyond Jan. 1, 2000.

Margaret Joachim, Year 2000 coordinator at data processing services company
Electronic Data Systems Corp. (NYSE:EDS - news), says there are other dates
next year that might trigger computer failure.

``April 9, 1999, the 99th day of the year, and Sept. 9, 1999, which might
be recorded as 9-9-99. This is because programmers often used nines as a
cutoff for a program. A row of nines meant 'don't do this anymore,'''
Joachim said.

The world is in differing states of readiness. Information technology
consultancy Gartner Group says the United States is best prepared, followed
by Canada, Australia, South Africa, Israel and Britain. At the bottom of
the list is Brazil, the world's eighth largest economy and a big producer
of industrial components, commodities and grains.

Brazil is unlikely to be able to confine problems within its borders,
according to a recent report by Edward Yardeni, chief economist for
Deutsche Morgan Grenfell in New York.

Japan's lack of action is also causing concern. The Japanese government
said last month that important industries like finance, transport, energy,
telecommunications and medicine were lagging in year 2000 preparation.

Hong Kong's government has said 80 percent of its critical computer systems
were ready for 2000 as of Sept. 30, 1998, but it is worried about small and
medium-sized businesses.

India does not expect much damage because of its small number of computers
-- only around 2.3 million in a nation of about 950 million. But India's
``brain trust'' of software makers have bagged orders worth $1.5 billion to
fix year 2000 problems around the world, said Dewang Mehta, executive
director of the National Association of Software and Service Companies.

In China, authorities have decreed that all government computer systems
must be fixed by March and tests completed by September 1999.

Cambridge University's Anderson said France was most at risk in Western
Europe, with computer failures most likely in the public sector and
especially public utilities. Any problems could quickly become a problem
for neighbors such as Britain, which receives electric power from France.

``There is still quite a question mark over whether France sees the scale
of the problem,'' said Chris Webster, head of year 2000 services at Cap
Gemini.

``There's a real chance that there may be some loss of service from
utilities. Who, when, where or why? Impossible to say. Will it be a
complete loss of power, voltage fluctuations? And there is a remarkable
lack of information from utilities as to what they are expecting to
happen.''

JP Morgan's Year 2000 expert Patrick Ward says Eastern Europe's and
Russia's utilities are a big concern, not least because Russia provides 40
percent of Germany's power.

If some systems crashes are triggered early by the arrival of Jan. 1, 1999,
it might be a blessing in disguise.

``This will involve accounting, planning and budgeting systems rather than
operational executing systems, which carry out day-to-day business. It will
give you some experience in spotting the errors and knowing how to deal
with them,'' Webster said.

But Anderson is taking no chances: ``Personally, I plan to have three
months' food, a working well, three tons of calor (heating) gas and 400
liters of diesel come the dreadful day.''

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==========
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance-not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

========================================================================
To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] LISTSERV@LISTSERV.AOL.COM

To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] LISTSERV@LISTSERV.AOL.COM

Om




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 10:16:36 +0800
To: "Marcel Popescu" 
Subject: RE: I must admit. . .
In-Reply-To: <000301be2a14$9e5a8ec0$22fcb3c3@roknet.ro>
Message-ID: <199812180028.TAA009.26@whgiii>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

In <000301be2a14$9e5a8ec0$22fcb3c3@roknet.ro>, on 12/18/98 
   at 01:26 AM, "Marcel Popescu"  said:

>> I for one would like sendmail integrated with PGP. For example:
>> sendmail asks receiving server if it has PGP, and please give 
>> your public key, I have mail for you.. Then send the e-mail 
>> encrypted, while the receiving sendmail decrypts it and delivers
>> forwards. This is not very effective, but it would help some.

>I think this is a great idea. First time I'll play with making a POP
>client (an idea that appeals to me once in a while) I'll think about
>it...

Wouldn't it be more efficient to use TLS or SSH as an encryption protocol
between the POP3d and the POP3 client? This could also be used for
sendmail<->sendmail transactions.

This still does not address local storage on the POP3d server. I am
looking to setting up procmail to automatically PGP encrypt incomming
messages and the forwarding them to a local account so even if the sender
does not have PGP once the message is received by the PGP mail forwarder
the messages will be PGP encrypted (I have had several people contact me
looking for solutions to ISP's snooping on their mail without relying on
the senders using PGP).



- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: OS/2: Your brain.  Windows: Your brain on drugs.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0i OS/2 for non-commercial use
Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000
Charset: cp850

wj8DBQE2eZOrlHpjA6A1ypsRAgVDAKCpsNkbUjYCe77XBFHXnQDjZveHIwCg81zI
UQM3ssGqYt/sQ+674XepePs=
=GLQh
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: richardcwaits@telescan.com
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 18:45:38 +0800
To: CYPHERPUNKS@toad.com
Subject: Technical Analysis Special Offer
Message-ID: <199812181014.CAA28050@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



We've put together a technical analysis package that will help you profit not just in 1999, but into the next millenium. And with your purchase of $125 or more, you'll get your choice of one free investment book!  Just buy any of the information packed books, video tapes or CDs below with a total value of $125 or more, and choose one of the four books listed at the bottom of this message.  But you must order by December 30, 1998 to receive this special offer!  Call (800)324-8246 today to get a great package of educational materials, plus one free book!

Trading 101 and 102: The 101 book is a step-by-step guide to all the trading basics. Learn how to create a personalized trading system, backtest it, and evaluate performance. Then step up to the Trading 102 book, "Getting Down to Business," a complete guide to starting and managing your own trading business. Get both books for $68!

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Through this special year-end offer, a purchase of $125 or more entitles you one of the books below.

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Frederick Burroughs 
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 09:33:04 +0800
To: Cypherpunks 
Subject: Re: Clinton Attacks Iraq
In-Reply-To: <199812172117.WAA10224@replay.com>
Message-ID: <3679A6BD.3CED0FC8@shentel.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



There is limited outrage being expressed by some members of the UN Security
Council over the use of UN weapons monitoring information to strike targets in
Iraq. The latest US military action in Iraq, dubbed Desert Fox, utilized
information acquired from UNSCOM weapons inspection teams to develop targeting
priorities and improve strike precision.

Specifically, positioning data from GPS receivers used by weapons inspectors at
inspection sites in Iraq provided precise targeting coordinates for US cruise
missiles. Information from UN inspectors was also used to prioritize targets
into several categories, including: High threat defensive sites such as
antiaircraft missile and radar facilities, medium threat command and
communications sites, and low threat power and manufacturing plants. GPS data
was essential for targeting high threat sites located near residential areas.

Some suggestion has been made to sequester the GPS receivers, some of which may
store a record of use in memory. A case is being made that, in the instance of
Desert Fox, the use of UN property and UN operations aided and increased the
likelihood and effectiveness of military force. Scott Ritter, former UN weapons
inspector, was interviewed on NBC's Today show on Dec. 17. Mr. Ritter said, "The
U.S. has perverted the U.N. weapons inspection process by using it as a tool to
justify military action, falsely so."

And, for those who require it ;-)






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 04:08:16 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: Comrade Klinton at it again
Message-ID: <199812171926.UAA00639@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Comrade Klinton just started another bombing run, curiously after it became
widely known that the impeachment hearings wouldn't be delayed until next
week. So far, every target hit has been in camera range. NBC said that the
Iranian Embassy might have been hit by a Tomahawk.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 20:13:51 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: the KKK took my baby away (in year 2000)
Message-ID: <5fa1f33f36df0ce47fa8fa6f24f46fe0@anonymous>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



   Millenium Y2Kaos:
   
   Fear of Computer Bug
   Fueling Far Right
   
   
   Prepare for war. Its coming!" With those words, hard-line racist
   preacher James Wickstrom warned an August gathering of extremists in
   Pennsylvania of the end-times battle he expects in the year 2000 -- a
   battle he believes will be set off by the so-called "y2k" computer
   bug.
   
   Across the extreme-right spectrum, such fears of a societal breakdown
   sparked by computer date-change problems have set activists afire.
   While Wickstroms prophecies may be the most explosive, similar
   millennial fears are dominating the headlines of the radical press.
   The airwaves are reverberating with warnings to head for the hills and
   hunker down for possible riots and race war. The Internet is replete
   with similarly dire scenarios.
   
   When the crash comes, Wickstrom enjoined some 30 followers, "get out
   of the way for a while and then go hunting, O Israel!" Like the
   biblical figure of David, godly whites must "fill our shoes with the
   blood of our enemies and walk in them." Wickstrom lives, he said, "for
   the day I can walk down the road and see heads on the fence posts."
   
   If the race war scenario such men envision is a fantasy, the computer
   problem they believe will set it off is not. Authorities ranging from
   President Clinton to leaders of industry around the world believe that
   y2k -- which is short for "Year 2000" -- could lead to major social
   and economic snarls, even a worldwide depression.
   
   The problem originated with early computer programmers who abbreviated
   date references to two digits -- as in "98" for 1998 -- in order to
   save then-precious bytes of computer memory. At the turn of the
   century, experts say, many computers could crash or spew nonsensical
   data as they confuse "00" for 1900. While predictions vary hugely,
   many officials and experts believe there could be serious problems in
   banking, food supplies, air traffic control, nuclear and electrical
   power, defense and any number of other sectors.
   
   Many fear a recession. And there are those who forecast even worse.
   
   
   Something will happen
   
   Regardless of the actual result -- and many experts see the
   headline-making y2k story as a tempest in a teacup -- there is no
   question that a large number of extremists have pegged the year 2000
   as a critical date. For many, it will be the time when Christian
   patriots, the "children of light," must do battle with the satanic
   "forces of darkness." Others believe "one-world" conspirators will
   attack American patriots on that date.
   
   This has not been lost on those who battle right-wing terror. Early
   next year, the FBI will launch a nationwide assessment of the threat
   of domestic terrorism on and around Jan. 1, 2000. "I worry that every
   day something could happen somewhere," Robert Blitzer, head of the
   FBIs domestic terrorism unit, told the Los Angeles Times recently (see
   interview also in this issue).
   
   "The odds are that something will happen."
   
   Hard-line revolutionaries like Wickstrom are not the only ones to tie
   apocalyptic visions to the y2k problem. Pat Robertsons relatively
   mainstream Christian Broadcasting Network (CBN), for instance, offers
   news stories describing the computer bug and its possible
   ramifications such as "The Year 2000: A Date With Disaster" and
   "Countdown to Chaos: Prophecy for 2000." Robertson markets a CBN
   video, "Preparing for the Millennium: A CBN News Special Report," that
   includes a synopsis of "the y2k computer crisis" with his futuristic
   novel, The End of an Age, which describes a "possible scenario of a
   future biblical Armageddon" triggered by a meteors crash.
   
   The audience for such ideas is not even limited to evangelical
   Christians. A large number of new religious books have crossed over
   strongly into the secular market.
   
   Left Behind
   , a recent series of four apocalyptic novels co-authored by an
   evangelical Christian minister and a former journalist, has sold
   almost 3 million copies. The series made "publishing history in
   September when all four of the books ascended to the top four slots on
   Publishers Weekly magazines lists of bestsellers," according to a
   report in The New York Times. The books authors say every major
   prophecy of the biblical Book of Revelations has been fulfilled, and
   they expect the y2k bug could set off the crisis.
   
   
   Y2K and the antichrist
   
   "It could very well trigger a financial meltdown," co-author Tim
   LaHaye writes on his publishers Web site, which attracts 80,000
   electronic visits a day, "leading to an international depression,
   which would make it possible for the antichrist or his emissaries to
   establish a one-world currency or a one-world economic system, which
   will dominate the world commercially until it is destroyed."
   
   The series has spun off a companion childrens book series, a music CD,
   T-shirts and caps. More books and a movie also are in the works, the
   Times reported. And now, Tennessee trade magazine publisher Tim Wilson
   has launched a new periodical, Y2K News Magazine, that includes tips
   on defending property from would-be attackers.
   
   Reaction to the y2k problem on the extreme fringes of the right has
   varied widely, usually depending on the religious or ideological bent
   of each group. Probably the most consistent theme has been a
   survivalist one, with ideologues warning that people must prepare for
   the worst. And entrepreneurs around the country have leaped to take
   advantage of these fears, offering for sale everything from dried
   foods to underground bunkers.
   
   At the Preparedness Expo 98 held in Atlanta last June, for instance,
   at least a dozen speakers offered bleak assessments of the coming
   crisis. For those who took the bait, there was a plethora of products
   available: water purifiers, hundreds of types of storable foods from
   "enzyme-rich vegetable juice extracts" to "gourmet" dehydrated fruits,
   seeds, herbal medicines, "Cozy Cruiser" trailers and all manner of
   books on survival skills.
   
   Such merchants arent the only ones pandering to millennial fear.
   
   
   Land, gold and medical school
   
   In Idaho, so-called "Patriot" James "Bo" Gritz hawks remote lots of
   land that he describes as "an ark in the time of Noah," along with a
   huge range of survivalist products and training. In Montana, Militia
   of Montana leader John Trochmann has a catalog of holocaust-survival
   items. In states around the country, far-right "investment counselors"
   sell strategies to protect ones money as civilization collapses. And
   on the Internet, two self-described "Christian Patriots" signing
   themselves Michael Johnson and Paul Byus offer "foolproof" gold
   certificates to a mining claim in Oregon.
   
   "We [also] have set up schools to cover kindergarten, 1st thru 12th
   grades, adult school, community college, 4 yr college, university, and
   even the medical school I told you about 6 months ago," one of the
   Internet salesmen claims. "Bring your kids and entire family to
   participate in our secure decentralized Patriot community... ."
   
   Other reactions on the extreme right run the gamut, from seeing the
   crisis as an opportunity for global conspirators to seize dictatorial
   powers, to viewing it as an opening for revolution or a fulfillment of
   biblical prophecy. Recent examples:
   
   The New American, an organ of the ultraconservative John Birch
   Society, speculates that the y2k bug could be Americas Reichstag fire,
   a reference to the 1933 arson attack on Germanys Parliament building
   that was used by Hitler as an excuse to enact police state laws.
   "[C]ould the Millennium Bug provide an ambitious President with an
   opportunity to seize dictatorial powers?" the magazine asks. "Such a
   notion seems plausible... ."
   
   Norm Olson, a Michigan militia leader, is busy doing "wolfpack"
   training for the apocalypse, reports Media Bypass, a magazine popular
   among Patriots. "Survival is the key. As with most other people, we
   will rely on our self-supporting covenant community, " said Olson, who
   believes constitutional rights probably will be suspended before the
   real crisis hits. "It will be the worst time for humanity since the
   Noahic flood."
   
   In his AntiShyster magazine, Patriot editor Alfred Adask speaks of
   entire cities running out of food and of the possibility of "millions
   of American fatalities." "If the y2k information Ive seen is accurate,
   we are facing a problem of Biblical proportions," he says.
   "Potentially, y2k ... [is] a dagger pointed at the heart of Western
   Civilization."
   
   Bo Gritzs Center for Action newsletter, describing y2k as "a pandemic
   electronic virus more deadly than AIDS," predicts "worldwide chaos"
   and then goes on to offer lots for sale at Gritzs "Almost Heaven"
   community. "If Y-2-K has the predicted effect ... we can expect to
   see, out of the ashes of decimated fiat systems and economic chaos,
   the rise of a MONEY MESSIAH, who will offer a miraculous fix to a
   bleeding, begging world," Gritz adds. He also predicts imposition of a
   worldwide "electronic currency."
   
   Writing in The Jubilee, the leading periodical of the racist and
   anti-Semitic Christian Identity religion, correspondent Chris Temple
   says that "the net result of the Year 2000 problem as I have described
   it will be POSITIVE! Internationalism and capitalism will be dealt
   severe blows; efforts to recapture local control ... will spread."
   
   In his Patriot Report, Identity proselytizer George Eaton concludes:
   "We need to act as if our lives depend upon our decisions, because
   they do. What can we do? Continue to work and save up money for
   survival items. ... A person can never be over-prepared."
   
   In a July Internet posting on a Klan news page, a contributor
   described as a computer programmer demands that the federal government
   "surrender" in return for programmers assistance in fixing the y2k
   bug. The posting speaks of "the thousands (probably millions) joining
   us in our rural retreats. Weve got the bibles, the beans, the
   bandages, the bullets -- and the brains. ... You will reap what you
   have sewn [sic]. ... Some cities will indeed end in flames -- flames
   that will light a path to our posteritys freedom."
   
   
   From fallout shelters to y2k
   
   Interestingly, one of the most salient commentators on the y2k problem
   -- a man often quoted in the mainstream press -- has been Gary North.
   North is a hard-line opponent of abortion and a theocratic thinker who
   advocates imposing biblical law on the United States. In his books, he
   has written of the possibility of a "political and military"
   confrontation "in the philosophical war against political pluralism."
   Although he is widely described as a y2k "expert," he is also
   something of a professional doomsayer.
   
   In 1986, long before the y2k problem came to public attention, North
   co-authored a book on how to survive nuclear Armageddon. Called
   Fighting Chance: Ten Feet to Survival, it features a shovel -- for
   digging fallout shelters -- on its cover.
   
   Norths huge y2k Web site has made him into a guru to many extremists.
   The neo-Nazi Aryan Nations is one of many groups that link their Web
   sites to that of North.
   
   "These are people who are super-sensitive to anything that suggests
   the collapse of social institutions," Michael Barkun, a Syracuse
   University expert on millennialism, said of y2k fearmongers. "Since
   nuclear war really is no longer out there as a terribly likely way for
   civilization to end, theyve got to find something else. y2k is
   convenient."
   
   Many experts, including Barkun and the FBIs Blitzer, agree that
   extremists fears and hopes surrounding y2k have increased the danger
   of domestic terrorism. "It adds to apocalyptic fears," says Chip
   Berlet, who studies the far right for Cambridge-based Political
   Research Associates. "Therefore, it adds to the potential for
   violence."
   
   James Wickstrom may best illustrate that potential.
   
   At the meeting he co-hosted with Identity leader August Kreis in
   Ulysses, Pa., he warned his audience -- several clad in Aryan Nations
   uniforms -- that auth
   
   The enemy, said Wickstrom, must be "exterminated." He must be "shot."
   He must be "hanged." "The battle is upon us," Wickstrom bellowed.
   "Battle!"




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 10:09:48 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Howdy neighbor! Can I borrow an egg, some sugar, and a SCSI cable?
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 16:32:14 -0500
To: 0xdeadbeef@substance.abuse.blackdown.org
Subject: Howdy neighbor! Can I borrow an egg, some sugar, and a SCSI cable?
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 16:36:36 -0500
From: glen mccready 
Resent-From: 0xdeadbeef@substance.abuse.blackdown.org
Resent-Sender: 0xdeadbeef-request@substance.abuse.blackdown.org


Forwarded-by: Nev Dull 
Forwarded-by: "Kevin D. Clark" 

Source: http://online.guardian.co.uk/theweb/911396071-geekville.html

Leander Kahney inspects a des. res. for hackers

House fit for a mouse

TO RENT: apartment; sleeps 2.8 computers; unique address (on the Web);
Linux in all rooms; only geeks need apply.

This isn't quite how Walden Internet Village advertises itself but it is
how the complex sees itself: 'run by geeks for geeks'. The 12-building
complex in Houston, Texas, boasts pleasant decor and beautiful landscaped
gardens but for the tenants it is trying to attract the most important
feature will be the way it is wired for the future, offering the kind of
high-speed Internet access enjoyed only by big companies and universities.

"It's a community for hackers," says Alan LeFort, marketing director and
network administrator. "It's not easy to find a place where your
neighbours are Perl programmers or Linux freaks."

Every apartment has a 10 Megabit per second pipe to the Internet -- a
connection about 175 times faster than the standard 56k modem. It also
has assigned its own unique Web address, so residents can run their own
Web sites from inside their apartments.

"We don't care what they run as long as its not a porn site," LeFort said.

All apartments also have wiring built into the walls for their own little
home network. "The average resident has 2.8 machines," LeFort says. "They
like to connect them together." The complex also offers several big
computers on an internal network, one dedicated to the game Quake and
another for storing the GNU/Linux software favoured by most tenants. The
few running Windows NT will have to be "educated", LeFort said.

At first sight, Texas with its cowboy image, might seem an unlikely place
for a geek community. But Houston is home to Nasa's Johnson Space Center,
Compaq, and a major axis for the engineering, medical, and, of course,
the oil and energy industries. Already geeks have snapped up about half
the 200 apartments. The company hopes to fill the rest with geeks as
non-hackers' leases expire. Rents range from $675 (L409) per month for a
one-bedroom flat to $1,400 a month for a three-bedroom, two-bathroom home.
The complex boasts an active social life. Every fortnight is party night
when up to 50 people turn up with their computers and hook them into a
fast Local Area Network for playing games.

Walden is a pilot project. The company owns five other complexes in
Houston and is considering re-wiring three of them for hackers.

Visit Walden Internet Villages at http://www.waldenweb.com and two of the
complex's game sites at http://www.gamerscircle.com, http://www.quake2.com

18 November 1998

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 04:42:20 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199812171941.UAA02032@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



McAfee has announced that they are giving away the commercial version of PGP 6.0.2 for free for a limited time.  It also includes PGP Disk, which creates virtual encrypted drives.  PGP 6.0.2 also claims to have anti-TEMPEST protection, by using a special font.  My question is: what's the catch?

It is a fact that Network Associates (McAfee's owner) is a member of the Key Recovery Aliance.  Is the decision to give the software away part of something that's not being said (i.e. reduced security) or did I spend $39.99 on PGP and an additional $39.99 on PGP Disk for no reason because it would become available for free two weeks later?

And, has anyone tested the anti-TEMPEST features in PGP 6.0.2?

        




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Frantz 
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 13:49:51 +0800
To: "Brown, R Ken" 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 3:17 AM -0700 12/17/98, Brown, R Ken wrote:
>I'm sorry but this is nonsense. Ghandi may have been a great man and an
>inspiration to us all but he *lost*. His first big political involvment was
>trying to stop the British from allowing the Boers to take away political
>rights from the "coloured" and Asian  population of Cape Colony. The Brits
>caved into the white South Africans and we all know what happened next.
>Then he tried to get them (well us I suppose, since I'm British) to "quit
>India" in the 1920s & 30s - failed again, we got out 2 decades later, after
>WW2,  when a British government was elected that was anti-colonialist. You
>wouldn't have been able to persuade the 1945-1951 government to stay *in*
>India. In fact they were so eager to get out they probably caused more
>problems by the speed of the withdrawal.  Ghandi wanted a secular federation
>of all India - but instead there was partition, the secession of an
>inherently unviable Muslim state that was bound to end up with either civil
>war or fundamentalism (and in the end got both, at least for some of the
>time), and at least hundreds of thousands, and possibly many millions of
>deaths that could have been avoided.  And then of course he himself was
>killed.  And now India has the BJP.  Ghandi was perhaps *right* but he
>certainly didn't "win the race".

If you take the long view, Ghandi has won 2 out of 3.  South Africa is a
lot better than in Ghandi's day.  Britain is out of India.  He has so far
lost on the separation of India and Pakistan, with no unification is sight.
It is clear that Ghandi has inspired the people more directly involved with
the final victory in the first two cases.  I think Ghandi took the long
view.  YMMV.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz       | Macintosh: Didn't do every-| Periwinkle -- Consulting
(408)356-8506     | thing right, but did know  | 16345 Englewood Ave.
frantz@netcom.com | the century would end.     | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jukka E Isosaari 
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 05:07:59 +0800
To: "Joel O'Connor" 
Subject: Re: I must admit. . .
In-Reply-To: <19981216144244.7920.rocketmail@send101.yahoomail.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Wed, 16 Dec 1998, Joel O'Connor wrote:

> Cypherpunks write code?  Make people use it. . .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---mib  wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 12:25:50PM -0800, you wrote:
> > > I wonder sometimes whether or not there is hope for us to ever stop
> > > this tyrrany.  I've seen a bunch of us diss the strike saying it was
> > > an outlandish and foolish idea, but I hadn't seen anyone of you come
> > > up with something better.

Kill Saddam Hussein instead of thousands of normal Iraqi people. 

Everyone is touting how he is behind every nasty thing that the 
Iraq does, so just kill or capture and imprison him. Don't take
it out on all the Iraqis.

Now, how's that for an alternative?

But I doubt it will happen. 

The UK+USA need an icon, a person to embody as THE international
satanic terrorist threat to all civilized nations. Otherwise their
current military expenditures would look ridiculously high and
unnecessary, now that the Russians don't pose any threat. This is
also why terrorist horror scenarios and stories are increasingly
used to justify incredible expenditure. The military is engaged
in creating a threat to justify their existence and continued 
economic well-being. Saddam is worth much, much more to them when
he is alive and well in Iraq.

The fact, however, is that any loony Unabomber cooking some anthrax
in his cellar in the US, would be able to harm the US more than the
whole nation of Iraqis right now, or in the years to come. Welcome
to Echelon and big brother surveillance justification.

++ J





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 05:57:10 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: RE: Clinton Attacks Iraq
Message-ID: <199812172117.WAA10224@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rabid Wombat [mailto:wombat@mcfeely.bsfs.org]
> Sent: Thursday, December 17, 1998 1:04 AM
> To: Anonymous
> Cc: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
> Subject: RE: Clinton Attacks Iraq
>
> Was it my imagination, or did the T'Hawk strikes pause for 
> Bubba's speech?
> It seemed like they were coming into Baghdad every half hour, like
> clockwork, but they seem to have skipped one half-hour's 
> worth when Bubba
> was on the air. 

By the order of the new Joint Chief of Staff, the newly commissioned Nielsen
rating system, the bombings were halted due to most targets being pointed at
the White House for Clinton-mania by select TV viewers nationwide.  Once
Clinton was off the air the new targetting systems available at select
Nielsen homes nationwide resumed proper operation by select War@Home
families tuning to their favorite news channels covering sites in Iraq.

Unfortunately a select number of viewers took shine to the Iranian Embassy
causing a tomahawk's guidance system to be changed and resulting in the
destruction of mentioned structure.  This will, of course, be blamed on user
error at the next press hearing.

yours virtually forever (however long that may be),
WarMonger

"Wag the Dog" was just the beginning...




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jukka E Isosaari 
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 05:04:14 +0800
To: "Joel O'Connor" 
Subject: Re: I must admit. . .
In-Reply-To: <19981216144244.7920.rocketmail@send101.yahoomail.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Wed, 16 Dec 1998, Joel O'Connor wrote:

> Cypherpunks write code?  Make people use it. . .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---mib  wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 12:25:50PM -0800, you wrote:
> > > I wonder sometimes whether or not there is hope for us to ever stop
> > > this tyrrany.  I've seen a bunch of us diss the strike saying it was
> > > an outlandish and foolish idea, but I hadn't seen anyone of you come
> > > up with something better.
> > 
> > Cypherpunks write code?

Whoops. Wrong subject. You were talking about the strike against
the Wassenaar agreement. 

Not the Iraqis... :) Duh, duh! Too much TV. I am sorry. :)

Well, here's my idea on how to fight the Wassenaar agreement:

I think the best method to fight the WA is with education.
Educate people. Help them use PGP with their applications.

Help integrate PGP into e-mail programs, make it's use easy.

I for one would like sendmail integrated with PGP. For example:
sendmail asks receiving server if it has PGP, and please give 
your public key, I have mail for you.. Then send the e-mail 
encrypted, while the receiving sendmail decrypts it and delivers
forwards. This is not very effective, but it would help some.

Also, you could have your sendmail enforce the PGP option that
no unsecure servers or forwardings would be considered acceptable,
and the e-mail should be returned if such were encountered.

This would eliminate at least *some* of the e-mail spooks there.
I realize it is no not very good, but it is better than nothing 
at all.

++ J





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Edwin E. Smith" 
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 13:09:21 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: McAfee PGP 6.0.2
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19981217230414.00713450@mailhost.IntNet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I got it! I had to use their search engine to find it though. Took 3 
tries to get it because the ftp kept stalling. If anyone can't find 
it I will be happy to send it on as an attach. Haven't installed it 
yet though. You better hurry if you want if from me because I leavinf 
for LA for 2 weeks.

Edwin

At 06:48 PM 12/17/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Max Inux writes:
>> it goto the pgp pages (easy link -> www.pgp.com) download PGP For 
personal
>> privacy, it is under that link.
>
>I think you're going  to be disappointed if you go there;
>the pgp web page has been swallowed by nai's, & download
>leads you to the new McAfee store, which is surely a nominee
>for "web pages that suck"(tm).  No free downloads.  There may 
>be something under one of the evaluation pages, but frankly
>the whole site turned me off & I didn't care to look so.  It's hard
>to find any mention of pgp at all, actually.
>
>
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0
Charset: noconv

iQA/AwUBNnnUPkmNf6b56PAtEQL/JACfdAlksad2RLnZ6vvZluGtpJaEut8An3JB
rLZG8tG/GOCEWhRmhE6w7K5P
=jjvZ
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


When freedom is outlawed.......Only outlaws will be free!

If cryptography is outlawed, pomz pvumbxt xjmm ibwf dszquphsbqiz.

Fun! Fast! Revealing! Try "The World's Smallest Political Quiz" at:
   http://www.self-gov.org/quiz.html

IS AIDS A GOVERNMENT/DRUG COMPANY HOAX?
   http://www.virusmyth.com/aids/index.htm

When you blame others, you give up your power to change.
Dr. Robert Anthony

Libertarian Party of Hillsborough County, FL
   http://home.tampabay.rr.com/lphc

When a place gets crowded enough to require ID's, social collapse is not far
away. It is time to go elsewhere. The best thing about space travel is that
it made it possible to go elsewhere.

Lazarus Long




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Edwin E. Smith" 
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 14:15:42 +0800
To: Jim Gillogly 
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19981218002853.0071a270@mailhost.IntNet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Duh! You're so right. here's the URL

http://www.nai.com/products/security/pgp_perspriv602.asp

In Liberty

Edwin


At 08:37 PM 12/17/98 -0800, you wrote:
>> I got it! I had to use their search engine to find it though. Took 
3 
>> tries to get it because the ftp kept stalling. If anyone can't 
find 
>> it I will be happy to send it on as an attach.
>
>It might help if you posted either the URL or the terms you fed 
their
>search engine to locate it.
>
>-- 
>	Jim Gillogly
>	Trewesday, 28 Foreyule S.R. 1998, 04:36
>	12.19.5.14.0, 6 Ahau 13 Mac, First Lord of Night
>
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0
Charset: noconv

iQA/AwUBNnnoFEmNf6b56PAtEQIe1wCggnyZc8La+KNjL1e2qSK7dbt/kQgAn3o8
GkjttjZC9VldQ7jFCueSm6Ex
=PAxS
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


When freedom is outlawed.......Only outlaws will be free!

If cryptography is outlawed, pomz pvumbxt xjmm ibwf dszquphsbqiz.

Fun! Fast! Revealing! Try "The World's Smallest Political Quiz" at:
   http://www.self-gov.org/quiz.html

IS AIDS A GOVERNMENT/DRUG COMPANY HOAX?
   http://www.virusmyth.com/aids/index.htm

When you blame others, you give up your power to change.
Dr. Robert Anthony

Libertarian Party of Hillsborough County, FL
   http://home.tampabay.rr.com/lphc

When a place gets crowded enough to require ID's, social collapse is not far
away. It is time to go elsewhere. The best thing about space travel is that
it made it possible to go elsewhere.

Lazarus Long




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 09:21:35 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: "They've started bombing Mars! I repeat, they're bombing Mars!"
Message-ID: <19981218004409.16492.qmail@hades.rpini.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



"We just intercepted a coded transmission from Earth Force Command. They've
started bombing Mars! I repeat, they're bombing Mars!"

(scene of two fighters on approach to a biodome)

Omega One: "Standing by. Weapons hot."
Radio: "Don't do it! We have women and children down here! Don't do it!"
Radio2: "Omega One, you are clear for drop."

(weapons fly, killing a few thousand innocent men, women, and children.)

It amazes me how much similarity Babylon 5 has to reality. Is Clinton a fan
who fancies himself as President Clark? I'm starting to worry.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Marcel Popescu" 
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 08:36:48 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks list" 
Subject: RE: I must admit. . .
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <000301be2a14$9e5a8ec0$22fcb3c3@roknet.ro>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> I for one would like sendmail integrated with PGP. For example:
> sendmail asks receiving server if it has PGP, and please give 
> your public key, I have mail for you.. Then send the e-mail 
> encrypted, while the receiving sendmail decrypts it and delivers
> forwards. This is not very effective, but it would help some.

I think this is a great idea. First time I'll play with making a POP client (an idea that appeals to me once in a while) I'll think about it...

Mark





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: HyperReal-Anon 
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 10:43:46 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: Re: Comrade Klinton at it again
Message-ID: <94b152b25895bf0f093f3a7186ddfaef@anonymous>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>Don't you mean "Iraqui" Embassy?
>
>Or is this thing spreading? I hope not.
>
>Comrade Klinton is no worse than Comrades Hyde, Ingliss, Gingrich,
>Coble, Bono, well you know the rest. They all call themselves statesmen
>but they are pretty damned pedestrian.

An NBC reporter in Baghdad reported that the Iranian embassy was hit by a
Tomahawk, but I've had the news off since then and haven't heard anything
else about it. The Klinton White House won't come out and admit that they
missed, just like they won't admit that a Tomahawk landed in someone's
house last night (again according to NBC).

You are wrong, though. Comrade Klinton is worse than Comrade Hyde and the
rest. The loyal card-carrying Party members in congress are limited in power
because the majority of them have to agree on an issue. Comrade Klinton can
do virtually whatever he wants with the military under the War Powers Act
and doesn't have to answer for it until it's all over.

As I recall, the name "Desert Fox" was a nickname held by a Nazi general.
Fitting, that.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Vortexia 
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 10:27:05 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Encryption chip
Message-ID: <000801be2a26$05fad100$973402c4@vort.nis.za>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Does anyone know if there is some kind of chip, or IC commercially available
that does secure encryption?

Thanx

Andrew Alston




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Brown, R Ken" 
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 18:23:41 +0800
To: vortexia@doxx.net>
Subject: RE: Encryption chip
Message-ID: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F8645@MSX11002>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> Does anyone know if there is some kind of chip,
>  or IC commercially available that does secure encryption?

Yes, somebody does know.

OK, sorry, that was facetious. In fact I know.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Vortexia 
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 11:06:28 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Encryption Chip (details)
Message-ID: <002f01be2a30$4339a280$973402c4@vort.nis.za>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Sorry to follow up my own post, but it was brought to my attention that
there are a number of encryption chips available and I would need to be more
specific to get any specific information.

I am looking for a chip that can do DES, Triple DES and/or Blowfish for the
purpose of secure communications.  We want an IC instead of software because
of the volume of information that will have to be processed in this project.

If anyone has any information please drop me an email

Thanks

Andrew Alston





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Brown, R Ken" 
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 19:38:00 +0800
To: "'cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com>
Subject: War as a public relations excercise (was re:Comrade Klinton at it again)
Message-ID: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F8646@MSX11002>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> nobody@sind.hyperreal.art.pl is accused of writing:
> 
>  As I recall, the name "Desert Fox" was a nickname 
> held by a Nazi general. Fitting, that.

It's what Allied journalists called Erwin Rommel, who was a German general,
if not exactly a Nazi. Sometimes said to be a military genius.   IIRC he
distinguished himself well as a Panzer commander under Guderian in the
attack on France;  commanded the Afrika Korps &  was beaten by the Allies
(doing his reputation little harm - they were strongly outnumbered and
probably lasted longer than they were expected to); and then was injured in
the D-day invasion, invalided out and accused of plotting to kill Hitler. He
was murdered  by the Nazis (in that he was told that if he commited suicide
his wife and children would not be sent to a concentration camp, which
counts as murder in my book).

Once upon a time a code name for a military "operation" was just that, a
code name. These days it is a brand label. Probably thought up by the same
guys that Coca-Cola or Ford would hire to name a new product.

For any British person over the age of about 30 "Desert Fox" will
immediately bring to mind Rommel, WW2 and the "Desert Rats",  the British
8th Army  (in fact mostly Indian + Australian with contingents from all over
the Empire) who fought against Rommel in North Africa. That reminds us of
the long-range Desert Group & for those who have been paying attention, the
SAS, (who get *heaps* of publicity here. There is a whole tacky genre of SAS
books and magazines) which in turn is supposed to make us feel good (all
that rhetoric about "punching above our weight" and the "best trained and
most skilled army in the world", "the Professionals").   

And "Fox" brings to mind foxhunting of course.  The choice of name is meant
to imply to British audiences that "our boys" are out there hunting Saddam,
even though that has been officially denied by both UK and US government.
All the publicity refers to "him" and "his" weapons.  No-one ever says "we
are at war with Iraq", it is always "we are denying *him* the  use of *his*
weapons of mass destruction".  Maybe we will soon  start to see planted
media hints that there are, or have been,  SAS  on the ground in Iraq
looking for *him* - which will be instantly denied in such away as to allow
people to carry on  thinking that it is true if they want to. The US may
have a law against killing heads of state but we Brits don't (although
apparently we are still unsure as to whether we have a law against
extraditing them to Spain when accused of a mere 3,000 murders).  

I strongly suspect the news management for this war was handled by the
Brits, possibly the same spin team that handled last years Labour general
election victory.    

The first attack was about 4 minutes to 10 pm UK time.  I heard it as a
newsflash on the radio & then turned on the TV just in time for ITV's "News
at Ten" program.  One of their journalists was waiting outside that front
door of 10 Downing Street, obviously tipped off about an "important
announcement" and the PM came out sometime around 10 past 10 to make his
speech (half an hour *before* Clinton, which must have been agreed between
the governments) which ended just in time for the ad break.

I suppose Clinton's speech would have been about lunchtime on the West
Coast, late afternoon on the East Coast. A bit early from the POV of news
management. It gives the networks a few hours to work on it before
prime-time TV.  One of the first rules of this sort of thing you want  your
own words  to go over unedited if at all possible - the less time the
networks get the more likely you are just to be given a live mike. That way
you get to choose your own sound-bites.  Or borrow them from  Margaret
"There is No Alternative" Thatcher. Of course she needed the Falklands War
to get re-elected, and Clinton needs all the help he can get, but Blair is
still master of all he surveys (Well, except for a few of us unreconstructed
far-lefties, Peter Mandelson's private life,  and Welsh Labour Party) so
perhaps he can afford to be magnanimous in victory. Or perhaps he really
thinks that there is no alternative.

We could accuse them or timing the attack for  TV, although I suspect 0100
Baghdad time was in fact a sensible H-hour. You'd want it after dark,  and
later rather than earlier if you were interested in minimising civilian
casualties.   I suppose 0300 or 0400 might have been better - but that would
have missed UK evening TV and given the news media time to sort out their
story for the morning (some of the "serious"  papers here came out against
the attack. Tabloids seem to be all for it of course).  As it was everyone
got the  government announcement first. 

Ken Brown

This all my opinion and nothing to do with my employers. (And I am
certainly not even going to speculate about oil prices from this address).








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 13:16:19 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: .....
Message-ID: <199812180438.FAA15935@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



 * Intel's new chipset -> death of open source security?
 [ http://www.techweb.com/wire/story/TWB19981214S0008 ]

 * "[T]he Clinton administration announced further relaxation of U.S. export
 limits on encryption technologies."
 [ Mobile Computing and Communications (Jan. 99 issue, pp. 26+) ]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Intel plans to include security features in upcoming chipsets, including copy
protection, certificate management, and -- get this -- random number
generation. This will be implemented in firmware, and, given that it is
supposed to perform copy protection functions, there is a significant
possibility that the code would be inaccessible, maybe (heaven forbid) within a
tamper-resistant shell.

Suggested response: Make negative noise about it -- of course -- and, upon the
release of the specs, write software which interoperates with it, allowing
software written to use the chips to use open-source routines. In the best
case, you would be able to correct everything but the copy protection; in the
worst case, software-inaccessible key material would be necessary to
impersonate any function of the security chips -- possibly for the stated
purpose of preventing hostile code from overriding the security functions --
and it's necessary to either get trusted keys out of the chip or patch the
chip-using software, assuming that isn't made impossible, too.

Although I have no idea how one would go about lobbying Intel to make a
software-extensible design, it would be a Good Thing if they allowed a
mechanism for software to override the chip without risking losing the security
to a virus. It could be as simple as tweaking the relevant specs so that
developers would "naturally" make a program which would use a non-Intel-trusted
software fill-in for security functions when one is available, but know that
software was being used and who has signed it. That is, the protocols not only
make it possible for software to fill in for hardware but let programs that
work with the hardware work with the software fill-ins without modification.
Wouldn't affect the (deeply misguided) copy protection features, because
software seeking copy protection could refuse to accept an answer that wasn't
authenticated as being from the trusted hardware.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pretty much self-explanatory: those opposing crypto regs present examples
demonstrating why crypto should be deregulated; the examples are deregulated
and the point is ignored. Far too many people are complacent.

A specific example: Mobile Computing and Communications (Jan. 99 issue, pp.
26+). It's an article saying that the Clinton administration has loosened
regulations and, denying those who oppose the administration's position the
fair shake given to even the most patently useless palmtop, states in the fifth
sentence that "[t]he main issues are privacy and security, and with this policy
it seems a delicate balance has been met."

The same magazine (in fact, the same author in the same issue) referenced
single-DES as "advanced encryption" with no mention of the fact that it had
repeatedly been broken or that most cryptographers agreed that use of DES was
to be avoided.

Rather than simply whine or rant about it, I suggest that at least some attempt
to respond be made. A letter to the editor may seem like a trite way to respond
to these non-crypto-savvy articles, but unless there are plans to hold
demonstrations outside the offices or just ignore it all...

[Begin sample letter to MC&C] 
A recent report in Mobile Computing and Communications applauded the Clinton
administration's loosening of cryptography when used in electronic commerce and
certain other applications. I loved the article, but it gave little attention
to what is probably, in the long term, the more important facet of
cryptography: everything else -- that is, the applications of cryptography that
are still regulated. Because intelligence agencies and some law enforcement
organizations are afraid that unregulated cryptography will lead to a
privacy-powered wave of terror, most of the vast potential of this technology
is being squandered. For example, a worldwide network of computers running
"anonymous remailer" software (which is powered by strong cryptography) could
use mathematics to provide something which lawyers and legislators have worked
to provide for hundreds of years: a virtual guarantee of freedom of speech. The
construction of such a network, though, is adversely affected by the controls
placed on the cryptographic software involved.

It's obvious that this particular application is not highly relevant to
businesses, but it's equally obvious to any professional cryptographer that
there is a myriad of other potential applications -- for companies and
individuals -- using software and hardware that is restricted by the current
set of regulations.

But the solution is not to follow the current trend, which has been to loosen
regulations where there are complaints -- first banking, then medicine and
insurance, and maybe anonymity in the future -- while tightening them in other
fields through political maneuvers such as the Wassenar Arrangement. The
solution I support, and the one supported by many others inside and outside the
field of cryptography, is to keep our fears about cryptography reined in by our
hopes for it, and to deregulate it so that this growing technology's full
potential can be realised.
[End sample letter to MC&C]
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 13:54:33 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: .....
Message-ID: <199812180521.GAA19817@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> Intel plans to include security features in upcoming chipsets, including copy
> protection, certificate management, and -- get this -- random number
> generation. This will be implemented in firmware, and, given that it is
> supposed to perform copy protection functions, there is a significant
> possibility that the code would be inaccessible, maybe (heaven forbid) within a
> tamper-resistant shell.

To clarify exactly why this is a problem: although it obviously won't affect
the security of existing apps, it's likely that many newer apps will be
dependent on this possibly-secret firmware for security, and we all know the
evils of depending on a design not subject to intense public scrutiny. Worse
yet, it seems possible that a certificate-based system could be used to ensure
that neither non-Intel chips nor software fill-ins would be accepted by
applications using the firmware.

And, of course, except for what was mentioned in the TechWeb article itself,
this is all conjecture based almost entirely on Murphy's Law.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 21:46:46 +0800
To: mac-crypto@vmeng.com
Subject: international free crypto campaign
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


From: "Erich Moechel" 
To: rms@gnu.org
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 11:55:26 +0100
Subject: international free crypto campaign
CC: rah@shipwright.com
Priority: normal
Status: U

Hello,
We are in the midst of developing logos 4 the global campaign
proposed as followup 2 the Wassenaar decision.
The logos are here:

http://www.quintessenz.at/freecrypto.html

We would appreciate ur evaluation, suggestions highly welcome.

quintessenz group is a founding member of the Global Internet
Liberty Campaign. I've done much on the spot reporting from
Wassenaar Office here in Vienna and am one of the coordinators of
the International Crypto Campaign.
hoping 2 hear from u
Erich

-.-.- --.-  -.-.- --.-  -.-.- --.-
     q/depesche taeglich ueber
internationale hacks--.-zensur im netz
crypto--.-IT mergers--.-monopole
& die universalitaet digitaler dummheit
subscribe http://www.quintessenz.at
-.-.- --.-  -.-.- --.-  -.-.- --.-
Certified PGP key http://keyserver.ad.or.at
-.-.- --.-  -.-.- --.-  -.-.- --.-
erich-moechel.com/munications
++43 2266 687201 fon  ++43 2266 687204 fax
-.-.- --.-  -.-.- --.-  -.-.- --.-

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Wilson, Jamie (J.R.)" 
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 21:46:54 +0800
To: "'John Holland'" 
Subject: RE: McAfee PGP 6.0.2
Message-ID: <199812181306.IAA01466@mailfw1.ford.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I downloaded my copy from
http://www.nai.com/products/security/pgp_perspriv602.asp.

____________________________________________________
Jamie R. Wilson                     


-----Original Message-----
From: John Holland [mailto:ekkensj@earthlink.net]
Sent: Thursday, 17 December, 1998 18:44
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: McAfee PGP 6.0.2


>McAfee has announced that they are giving away the commercial version of
PGP 6.0.2 for free for a limited time.

Where is the free version available?  Neither the McAfee or Network
Associates web sites mentioned this.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 22:35:18 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Dec. 18 column - Clinton still lying
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Resent-Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 20:49:17 -0700
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 19:52:00 -0800 (PST)
To: vinsends@ezlink.com
From: Vin_Suprynowicz@lvrj.com (Vin Suprynowicz)
Subject: Dec. 18 column - Clinton still lying
Resent-From: vinsends@ezlink.com
Resent-Sender: vinsends-request@ezlink.com
Status: U


    FROM MOUNTAIN MEDIA
    FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE DATED DEC. 18, 1998
    THE LIBERTARIAN, By Vin Suprynowicz
    There, he did it again

    So again, American missiles and planes are committed to a half-hearted,
just-to-make-a-point "war" in Iraq. (Does no one else recall that a
longer-haired Bill Clinton once protested a war in Vietnam because it was
not legally declared, and further because it was unwinnable, given that
Lyndon Johnson's policy of gradual escalation and "measured response"
turned out to be good for nothing but filling body bags?)

  And so the vast majority of Americans now shuffle into line, dispiritedly
rallying once again behind our fighting men and women, praying for their
safety.

  But Americans express this subdued support in spite of -- not because of
-- their faith that their current president would never lie.

  President Clinton will almost certainly be impeached by the House of
Representatives within days if not hours, for past lies and subversions of
justice aimed solely at protecting his own power, privilege and prestige.

 But surely matters of life and death, war and peace, are of such moment
that no president would subordinate them to any ongoing attempt to sidestep
justice ... right?

  In the final episode of the award-winning documentary series "The World
at War," a middle-aged German woman -- she had been a teen-ager in the
spring of 1945 -- recalls hiding in a Berlin basement as Russian shells
rained down overhead, listening with her mother to what was likely the
final radio broadcast by Nazi public relations chief Joseph Goebbels. When
Goebbels promised that the war would yet be won by secret weapons soon to
be unveiled by der Fuhrer, the teen-aged girl expressed disbelief. She was
then stunned when her mother slapped her, admonishing: "Do you think Herr
Goebbels would lie to us at a time like (start ital)this?(end ital)

  Mr. Clinton's crimes are on nowhere near the scale of those of the Nazis,
of course. (Though the relatives of the women and children his henchmen
killed at Waco might ask what difference the "scale" makes -- as now the
same question may occur to those dying in Iraq to prevent that sovereign
nation from stockpiling the same kinds of weapons the United States has
possessed for decades.)

  But isn't there a ghastly fastidiousness to the way this simpering
administration  insists it will not bomb during the Ramadan holiday so as
not to offend "Muslim sensibilities"? When George Patton's First Army was
racing to the relief of Bastogne, did the troops take a day off from
killing Germans on Dec. 25? If foreigners bombed your home and killed you
family, would you be less offended to have them do so on Dec. 22 than on
Christmas Day, or Yom Kippur?

  Do Mr. Clinton and his political advisors really understand what war
(start ital)is(end ital)?

  Meantime, the evidence mounts (it never seems to take long, anymore) that
Mr. Clinton did indeed lie again on Dec. 16, when he told the American
people that he decided on the timing of these latest bombings not to divert
attention from his own impending impeachment, but rather upon the specific
catalyst of receiving -- on Wednesday -- a final report from U.N. arms
inspectors.

  The Washington Times reported in a front page story Thursday that,
according to "authoritative sources," the White House notified the Joint
Chiefs of Staff that air strikes would be ordered this week on (start
ital)Sunday(end ital), "48 hours before he saw a United Nations report
declaring Iraq in noncompliance with weapons inspectors."

  Providing third-party corroboration, Israeli spokesman Aviv Bushinsky
said Wednesday that President Clinton discussed preparations for an attack
with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu just minutes before Mr.
Clinton flew home from Israel on (start ital)Tuesday(end ital).

  What does it matter, which day the president made the decision? It
doesn't , of course; it only matters if the president deliberately lied
about it, which then throws into question anything else he has said about
the real motives for these actions.

  The Times further quotes a "senior congressional source" reporting that
"White House eagerness to launch air strikes grew with intensity as a
parade of centrist Republicans announced they would vote to impeach the
president."

  The credibility of the president (start ital)does(end ital) matter. The
ability of the public to have confidence that the man in the Oval Office
will put the faithful execution of his constitutional oath and duties ahead
of his personal ambition -- even his own political survival -- (start
ital)does(end ital) matter.

  Or are we willing to accept a world in which wars orchestrated by
television producers with the goal of improving "ratings points" turn out
not to be fiction, at all?

  (The second thing White House spokesmen did Dec. 16 -- after announcing
the latest raids on Iraq -- was to deny this was "a Wag the Dog scenario,"
referring to the reason cult comedy in which a hypothetical president
arranges a fake Balkan war to keep a sex scandal off the front pages.)

  For all his failings, can anyone imagine Franklin Roosevelt troubling
himself to deny that the D-Day landings of 1944 were staged as a mere
political stunt, to "make him look more presidential"?

  Mind you, I wish more Americans would start ridiculing the absurd
assumption that we need the federal government to hold our hands and change
our diapers, cradle to grave. The best remedy for the pretensions of many
of these arrogant bureaucrats to run our lives is indeed to laugh them out
of town.

  I just never expected to see the United States of America turned so
quickly into an impotent laughing stock, and from the top down.


Vin Suprynowicz is the assistant editorial page editor of the Las Vegas
Review-Journal. Readers may contact him via e-mail at vin@lvrj.com.

***


Vin Suprynowicz,   vin@lvrj.com

The evils of tyranny are rarely seen but by him who resists it. -- John
Hay, 1872

The most difficult struggle of all is the one within ourselves. Let us not
get accustomed and adjusted to these conditions. The one who adjusts ceases
to discriminate between good and evil.  He becomes a slave in body and
soul. Whatever may happen to you, remember always: Don't adjust! Revolt
against the reality! -- Mordechai Anielewicz, Warsaw, 1943

* * *

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Richard.Bragg@ssa.co.uk
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 18:25:15 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: RE: I must admit. . .
Message-ID: <802566DE.0034A7C4.00@seunt002e.ssa.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



So maybe this needs a multi-phase approach.

1)The mail programs themselves will encrypt between servers.  This can be
used to both protect the message(s) from being read (easily).  Does PGP
also assist by doing some compression?.  Also it can be used to autheticate
messages using a signiture which will have the dual purpose of providing
some tamper proofing.

2)The receiving mail-server will autheticate the incoming message against
its own list of known servers, and validate that the contents of the
message as a whole appears OK.  Maybe it will flag messages that fail these
checks.  It can also flag messages that arrived without server encryption.

3)If the incoming decrypted message is not itself privately encrypted by
the sender it will use PGP to encrypt the message for the user before
storing locally.  If the sender has already encrypted the message then it
will simply store it.

Caveats

A)All systems must have compatible encryption systems or access to those
systems.  (Why limit to just one?) and all those systems must have some
sort of agreed means of flagging the message to allow automatted
decryption.

B)Some means of exchanging public keys must be developed.  This must allow
for keys to be changed.  What happens when keys are changed, and messages
are still in transit from the old keys.

C)Not everyone is wise enough to use UNIX.  Some people even use (pardon
the language) Windoze or even AS/400's.

There is plenty more scope for discussion here I think even if it is some
of the less verbally able slagging off about old ideas that can't/won't
work because ... etc.  Surely there are enough brains out there to thrash
this through properly.

Hwyl





"William H. Geiger III"  on 18/12/98 00:23:05

To:   "Marcel Popescu" 
cc:   "Cypherpunks list"  (bcc: Richard
      Bragg/UK/SSA_EUROPE)
Subject:  RE: I must admit. . .




-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

In <000301be2a14$9e5a8ec0$22fcb3c3@roknet.ro>, on 12/18/98
   at 01:26 AM, "Marcel Popescu"  said:

>> I for one would like sendmail integrated with PGP. For example:
>> sendmail asks receiving server if it has PGP, and please give
>> your public key, I have mail for you.. Then send the e-mail
>> encrypted, while the receiving sendmail decrypts it and delivers
>> forwards. This is not very effective, but it would help some.

>I think this is a great idea. First time I'll play with making a POP
>client (an idea that appeals to me once in a while) I'll think about
>it...

Wouldn't it be more efficient to use TLS or SSH as an encryption protocol
between the POP3d and the POP3 client? This could also be used for
sendmail<->sendmail transactions.

This still does not address local storage on the POP3d server. I am
looking to setting up procmail to automatically PGP encrypt incomming
messages and the forwarding them to a local account so even if the sender
does not have PGP once the message is received by the PGP mail forwarder
the messages will be PGP encrypted (I have had several people contact me
looking for solutions to ISP's snooping on their mail without relying on
the senders using PGP).



- --
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
- ---------------------------------------------------------------

Tag-O-Matic: OS/2: Your brain.  Windows: Your brain on drugs.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.0i OS/2 for non-commercial use
Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000
Charset: cp850

wj8DBQE2eZOrlHpjA6A1ypsRAgVDAKCpsNkbUjYCe77XBFHXnQDjZveHIwCg81zI
UQM3ssGqYt/sQ+674XepePs=
=GLQh
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----









From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 00:33:00 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Crypto related... [/.]
Message-ID: <199812181600.KAA21672@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> X-within-URL: http://slashdot.org/

>     RIAA's Encypted Music-Working with defense contractors? The Internet
>    Posted by Hemos on Friday December 18, @08:32AM
>    from the things-that-make-you-go-hmm dept.
>    Tom Holroyd passed along some interesting pieces of information from
>    Eric S Arnum's recent piece over at SonicNet. Many of you saw that the
>    RIAA has decided to lauch their Secure Digital Music Initiative
>    (SDMI). Well, that's not so interesting on it's own, but their choice
>    of company is. It's a subsidary of SAIC, a privately held company that
>    does work in secure defense commnuications. The company (SAIC) has
>    worked with the CIA, NSA, and Navy, amongst others. Click below for
>    the full story.
>    Read More...
>    (18 comments, 2554 bytes in body)

>     Wassenaar agreement not to apply to free software? Encryption Posted
>    by sengan on Thursday December 17, @04:53PM
>    from the eh? dept.
>    The Free Software Foundation states that the Wassenaar agreement does
>    not apply to free-software. It'd be nice to know why. Is this a
>    provision for research, or some sort of loophole? Link countesy of
>    Linux Today.
>    Read More...
>    (89 comments)


    ____________________________________________________________________

          What raises the standard of living may well diminish the
          quality of life.

                                                 The Club of Rome

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Max Inux 
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 10:07:58 +0800
To: John Holland 
Subject: Re: McAfee PGP 6.0.2
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981217154338.00939630@mail.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Thu, 17 Dec 1998, John Holland wrote:
>>McAfee has announced that they are giving away the commercial version of
>PGP 6.0.2 for free for a limited time.
>
>Where is the free version available?  Neither the McAfee or Network
>Associates web sites mentioned this.

well since mcafee and NAI are the same freekin company, they do all say
it goto the pgp pages (easy link -> www.pgp.com) download PGP For personal
privacy, it is under that link.


www.pgpi.com has illegally exported copies aswell.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 00:34:39 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: NSA Org Chart
Message-ID: <199812181558.KAA27257@camel7.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Thanks to Defense Information and Electronics Report
we offer NSA's organizational chart, which was obtained
by DI&ER under the FOIA:

   http://jya.com/nsa-chart.htm






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 04:05:58 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Digital Democracy [/.]
Message-ID: <199812181936.NAA22321@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> X-within-URL: http://slashdot.org/features/98/12/18/1319204.shtml

>    Digital Democracy: An Idea Whose Time Has Come News Posted by JonKatz
>    on Friday December 18, @01:19PM
>    from the We-Really-Don't-Have-To-Take-It-Anymore dept.
>    As the Middle-Aged White Guys in Suits dig in in D.C. for what is
>    hopefully their last stand, the idea of Digital Democracy never looked
>    better. If it's a good idea (and it is) to empower individuals by
>    teaching them how to master their own technology via movements like OS
>    and free software, isn't it past time to use the technology of the Net
>    and the Web to reverse the flow of power, away from the entrenched and
>    increasingly lunatic journalists and politicians in Washington and
>    back to the individuals staring from a distance in shock and horror
>    and what they're seeing on their TV screens? Forget Wag the Dog.
>    Joseph Conrad, Oliver Stone, Francis Ford Coppla (maybe Fellini, too)
>    have seized the capitol. Only we can't leave the theater.
>    
>    
>    
>    Never mind the silly allusions to "Wag the Dog." Somehow, Joseph
>    Conrad, Oliver Stone and Francis Ford Coppola (maybe Fellini, too) got
>    together to take over the government and play out their own visions of
>    our political life. The American capitol is now the Heart of Darkness,
>    fusing the darkest and most paranoid visions of "JFK" with the
>    spectacularly represented lunacy of "Apocalypse Now."
>    
>    The movies have somehow become real life, but we can't leave the
>    theater and go home. The horror never ends. Whenever we turn on the
>    TV, they're all still there, shouting, posturing, spinning.
>    
>    More and more, it seems clear that they're never going to go away.
>    Each one will have to be dragged out kicking and screaming, the last
>    zealot in Congress, the last self-righteous reporter, the last
>    screaming pundit on cable.
>    
>    It's time to start thinking about Digital Democracy. We have to be
>    able to do better than them.
>    
>    If the goals of OS and the free software movement are, in part, the
>    free and democratic sharing of technology, why not stretch the notion
>    farther and put it into the context of our increasingly surreal, even
>    mad, political times?
>    
>    The natural extension of the booming OS and free software movements
>    are into politics and democracy, especially the radical new ways in
>    which digital democracy could once again empower individuals instead
>    of politicians and journalists, and reform the obviously broken and
>    outdated way in which we resolve political issues.
>    
>    America was founded as a Republic, not really as a representative
>    democracy. For one thing, Americans were scattered far from one
>    another and couldn't make their feelings known quickly. So elected
>    representatives were elected to gather and make decisions on their
>    behalf.
>    
>    The authors of the Constitution didn't have all that much regard for
>    the judgements of the average citizen, any more than their successors
>    seem to. The structure was tilted towards a deliberative, rather than
>    simply representative system so that educated and affluent landowners
>    could screen the passions of the rabble and have the final say.
>    
>    The early pundits and cyber-gurus of the Internet's first generation
>    spouted on quite a bit about the impact of networked computing on
>    democratic institutions like Congress and journalism. These
>    institutions, they predicted, would increasingly become ineffective
>    and irrelevant, swept away by the power of digital technology to
>    reverse the flow of power.
>    
>    This cyber-rhetoric seemed - was - heavy-handed, Utopian and
>    overblown. It evoked the table-thumping Marxists more than the
>    architects of a new, civil order. But this week, it looks more better
>    by the hour.
>    
>    If you take the OS idea and daydream about it for a bit - millions of
>    individuals taking control of their own technology and shaping the
>    information they access and share, doesn't this idea have even greater
>    application for politics? And could it possibly be more timely? If
>    would could express ourselves politically - and have our expressions
>    count - isn't it at least conceivable that the U.S. Congress might be
>    talking about something that matters today, and for the last year?
>    
>    Digital democracy is no longer a pipedream, not in the year of the
>    online dumping of the Starr report and the impeachment proceedings.
>    It's no longer difficult to imagine every American having a computer
>    in the next few years, or having easy access to one in schools,
>    libraries and public buildings. People could vote online now as easily
>    as they vote by ballot or booth - more easily really. Each citizen
>    could be assigned a digital voting number and use it to vote from home
>    or the school or library down the road, where computers already exist
>    or could easily be set up. Fraud would be easier to spot and guard
>    against, thanks to advances in both encryption and programming. And
>    this wouldn't even raise fresh privacy issues, as voters have to
>    register now.
>    
>    This week, the country is confronted with the bizarre spectacle of a
>    runaway political entity - Republicans in the House of Representatives
>    - deciding, correctly or not, that no interest is more important than
>    impeaching President Clinton - not public sentiment, military action,
>    education, health care, the economy or any other civic or social
>    agenda. Even if they're right, lots of people are uneasy about this
>    willful disregard of public will. Most Americans don't want this to be
>    happening, and have said so for months. The politicians have said that
>    it doesn't really matter, the next election is two years away. By
>    then, nobody will remember this strange time. That's a good argument
>    for some form of Digital Democracy.
>    
>    Digital voting made possible by the Internet would make a spectacle
>    like the impeachment proceedings impossible. Everything shouldn't
>    necessarily be subject to popular vote, but the impeachment of the
>    President should be, and the Net and the Web could make it possible
>    even now.
>    
>    Watching music lovers challenge the primacy of the music industry
>    through digital technology like MP3's and the Rio raises the question
>    of whether we really need a middleman institution like Congress to
>    decide issues like this for us. After the year long Lewinsky/Clinton
>    media barrage and the dumping of reams of material, pornographic and
>    otherwise on the Internet, we know as much about the charges against
>    the President as they do. We are able and equipped to make up our own
>    minds and express our own wishes. And perhaps even see our wishes
>    carried out.
>    
>    Do we need to be bound to completely by their agenda, when we can now
>    set our own?
>    
>    Unlike Colonial Americans, we aren't disconnected and remote. We can
>    make our feelings known instantly. We have the technology to gather in
>    communities and clusters to debate and consider as much or more
>    information as members of Congress.
>    
>    Many politicians and journalists have feared, even loathed, the
>    Internet, since its inception. Increasingly, it becomes clear why. It
>    really does threaten them. It really does provide the means to take
>    power away from them - and their co-produced spectacles like
>    impeachment proceedings and presidential nominating processes - and
>    distribute it more broadly. This week marks the perfect time to begin
>    consider the possibilities of Digital Democracy. To broaden the notion
>    of empowering individuals begin by the designers of the Internet,
>    advanced by hackers, geeks, nerds, developers and designers and being
>    played out on sites like this one today. From the moment the Internet
>    began to grow, power and information began to leach away from
>    entrenched institutions like government, the press and academe and
>    towards hundreds of thousands, then millions of individual citizens.
>    The impeachment proceedings are a powerful argument for the idea that
>    it's time to take that idea farther.
>    
>    Digital technology doesn't mean that democratic decisions would have
>    to be rushed or impulsive. They could be as deliberative as we wished.
>    Digital voting could be spread over time, perhaps requiring several
>    votes. A broad range of issues and decisions - appointments, foreign
>    policy decisions, criminal matters - would be inappropriate for online
>    voting.
>    
>    But the Net is becoming a medium already well set-up for civic
>    discussions. The Internet could host hundreds, even thousands of
>    public online forums for debate and discussion - via message boards,
>    chat rooms and websites that could be designed for towns, counties,
>    states or regions. Politicians, agencies and advocates could
>    disseminate information and arguments via national websites, mailing
>    lists and e-mail.
>    
>    These forums would have to consider new kinds of rules for debate and
>    discussion, an online issue long in need of attention. Posters would
>    have to identify themselves and take responsibility for their words.
>    Discussion would center on issues, not personalities. Presidents and
>    legislators could bring information and decisions directly to the
>    American public. If the Starr report was worthy of being dumped on
>    line, why not the House Judiciary report on impeachment? Voters could
>    read it online, debate it, decide to pass it along for further action
>    or stop the process right there.
>    
>    If digital democracy were in place, this issue would have been
>    resolved nearly a year ago. Tens of millions of dollars would have
>    been better spent. Many more important issues would have considered,
>    accepted and rejected. Clinton would either be doing his job or long
>    gone. Instead of feeling cheated and ignored, the public would feel
>    enfranchised and involved. Democracy wouldn't be a remote circus
>    practiced far away by alien cultures, but something as close as a desk
>    or living room.
>    
>    We are no longer a country of merchants and mostly illiterate farmers.
>    Paine and Jefferson, the fathers of media, couldn't quite have
>    imagined the Internet, but there seems little doubt that they have
>    loved its communicative and democratic possibilities. Those of us with
>    access to computers and modems have access to all of the information
>    and opinions in the world, thus the means to consider issues and
>    express ourselves. In fact, there are thousands of people who've been
>    online for years and who are experienced at creating digital
>    communities, monitoring conversations and developing the software and
>    hardware to run them efficiently and accurately.
>    
>    No system involving Digital Democracy could work or even be seriously
>    considered until and unless all Americans were guaranteed access to
>    computers. A few years ago, online users were a tiny, techno-elite.
>    That's no longer true. Computers are increasingly ubiquitous, at
>    schools, businesses, and at home. Personal computers are already being
>    mass-marketed that cost well below $1,000, and public agencies like
>    schools, libraries and municipal office buildings are increasingly
>    wired. They could offer online voting to non-computer users in much
>    the way they offer voting booths and make them available. Many more
>    Americans own computers than voting booths.
> 


    ____________________________________________________________________

          What raises the standard of living may well diminish the
          quality of life.

                                                 The Club of Rome

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Missouri FreeNet Administration 
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 04:21:08 +0800
To: Robert Hettinga 
Subject: Re: international free crypto campaign
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



:Hello,
:We are in the midst of developing logos 4 the global campaign
:proposed as followup 2 the Wassenaar decision.
:The logos are here:
:
:http://www.quintessenz.at/freecrypto.html
:
:We would appreciate ur evaluation, suggestions highly welcome.

I can see using the smaller ones ("echelons" @ ~8.5k), but the other
[animated gif's] are simply too big.  The download time on them is
excessive (although I do like their design).  Remember *most* ppl are
still accessing the www at 28k +/-.

Yours, 
J.A. Terranson
sysadmin@mfn.org

--
If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they
should give serious consideration towards setting a better example:
Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of
unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in
the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and 
elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire
populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate...
This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States
as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers,
associates, or others.  Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of
those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the
first place...
--------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Sunder 
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 03:53:13 +0800
To: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Fwd: DNA Sample with Every Arrest
In-Reply-To: <199812180318.TAA03849@netcom13.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <367AAB1A.B56D7484@brainlink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




> Safir said a suspect's DNA sample would be destroyed if he were 
> acquitted or cleared.

Indeed, the innocent have very much to fear.  Had Safir intended the above to
be true, there would be no need to take the samples during the initial arrest
of every person, only in those cases where it was necessary.

And what will be the penalty for not destroying the DNA samples when the
victim is acquitted or cleared?  (Indeed, victim no longer applies to the
person hurt by the alleged criminal, now the alleged criminal is also a
victim.)

So what's next, randomly arresting people driving through an intersection and
then releasing them after their DNA is in the master catalog?  Requiring DNA
samples to get drivers licenses along and finger prints too?  Having DNA
samples in your driver's license and having random check points to make sure
it matches your license?  Using DNA as SSN's?  Taking DNA samples with
vaccination?  Shades of Gataca!


-- 
----------------------------  Kaos Keraunos Kybernetos  -------------------
 + ^ +        Sunder          "The   real aim  of current policy is to /|\
  \|/    sunder@sunder.net    ensure the continued effectiveness of   /\|/\
<--*--> ALLOW FREE EXPORT OF  US information warfare assets against   \/|\/
  /|\   STRONG CRYPTOGRAPHY!  individuals,businesses and governments   \|/
 + v +  PROTEST WASSENAAR!!!  in Europe and elsewhere"  -- Ross Anderson
------------------------------ http://www.sunder.net ----------------------

RESTRICTED DATA - This material contains RESTRICTED DATA as defined in
the Atomic Energy Act of 1954. Unauthorized disclosure subject to 
administrative and criminal sanctions.  NOFORN ORCON WNINTEL SIOP-ESI CNWDI




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Matthew James Gering 
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 07:14:38 +0800
To: "Cypherpunks (E-mail)" 
Subject: RE: Comrade Klinton at it again
Message-ID: <5F152E6E8E6FD21195DF00104B2425AD02B38B@yarrowbay.chaffeyhomes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Michael Motyka wrote:
> Don't you mean "Iraqui" Embassy?
> 
> Or is this thing spreading? I hope not.

Why would there be an Iraqi embassy in Iraq?! You nitwit!

Iranian Embassy in Baghdad.

Somebody said:
> As I recall, the name "Desert Fox" was a nickname held by a Nazi 
> general. Fitting, that.

I thought maybe the Fox News channel bought sponsorship ;)

	Matt




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: tony@secapl.com
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 04:14:46 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Fwd: DNA Sample with Every Arrest
In-Reply-To: <367AAB1A.B56D7484@brainlink.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




On Fri, 18 Dec 1998, Sunder wrote:

> So what's next, randomly arresting people driving through an intersection and
> then releasing them after their DNA is in the master catalog?  Requiring DNA
> samples to get drivers licenses along and finger prints too?  Having DNA
> samples in your driver's license and having random check points to make sure
> it matches your license?  Using DNA as SSN's?  Taking DNA samples with
> vaccination?  Shades of Gataca!

  Not sure where this is from but:

   "The government already has DNA samples from all US citizens, why else
    do you think they kept the copper penny in circulation?" 

  I doubt copper can really collect DNA, and even if so, how they'd
correlate it with individuals, but with public health vaccinations and
(HMO at least) medical exams, the USG has had the opportunity to
collect DNA samples of a very large percentage of the population already.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: CyberPsychotic 
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 19:37:11 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: RPK Encryptonite engine
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Hello people,

Just wondering if anyone could pull a word on RPK crypto. They say they
built their engine based on  Diffie-Hellman Key Exchange principles (which
shoulds safe enough), but they claim their software doesn't fail under US
crypto restriction law, which makes me suspicious.


--
fygrave@tigerteam.net		http://www.kalug.lug.net




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Pallas Anonymous Remailer 
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 10:50:57 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: How to Spot a Government Infiltrator
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



How to Spot a Government Infiltrator 

                              by Mike Johnson

Those who have been studying the stories released to the media these days about the arrests of
various different people within the militia movement will doubtlessly have noted that government
infiltrators are usually involved. This should make people nervous. 

And rightly so. Our normal view of government is that the only people who should have to worry
about what the government is up to are people who are breaking the law. As the vast majority of
constitutional militia units are composed of people who are of good character and don't go around
breaking the law to begin with, they might feel that they should have little to worry about from the
government. 

Unfortunately that does not seem to be the case. The government appears to be going all out to
discredit the constitutional militia movement in this country. This effort on the part of the government
does include the use of government agents to infiltrate militia units and cause as many problems, hate
and discontent as they possibly can. In many instances, these government agents may not be readily
apparent as to who and what they are. Some of these people may have had extensive experience in
working undercover operations and may not make some of the more stupid mistakes. 

There are a variety of different roles that such government operatives may play. The first is that they
may simply act as a mole. They will do everything anybody else in the unit does, and do nothing at all
to call undue attention to themselves. However, they will relay everything that goes on within the unit
to their handlers. About the only indication a unit may have that they have been infiltrated by a mole
may be that they can't seem to be able to keep anything a secret. This type of role is the most difficult
for a unit to detect and deal with. Which is also possibly why most of the spy novels that get written
deal with various different ways to smoke out moles. While I wouldn't suggest that anybody try a
technique for which the only source of documentation is a work of fiction, it is an indication of just
how obnoxious this type of agent could be to deal with. 

Another role that a government agent might play may be that of a dissipator. A dissipator is one who
tries to redirect the course and energy of a unit in ways which will cause it to accomplish nothing of
any importance. They may also act so as to break a unit up by emphasizing differences,
disagreements and personality clashes between unit members. Given that the people who are
attracted to the constitutionalist militia movement usually tend to be strong willed and opinionated
people to begin with, such an agent may find that his task is somewhat easier than it might be if he
were working with other groups. Unit members should simply be encouraged not to take things
personally, be aware that there will be honest differences of opinion between the members of the unit,
and to be wary of somebody who does try to take everything personally, or set up cliques within the
unit. 

The final role which will be discussed is that of the agent provocateur. Such an agent infiltrates a unit
and tries to get the members of the unit to actually commit crimes, or make it look like they are
actually planning to commit crimes. One should also bear in mind that a government agent is not going
to be confined to operating within any one of the roles that have been discussed, and may likely mix
and match as they feel best. However, the role that has received the highest profile in government
operations these days is that of the agent provocateur. That is largely because the results of an
operation conducted by an agent provocateur or two make for good propaganda when the media
gets hold of it. The resultant publicity given to the arrests and the charges gets used to brand
everybody in the entire movement as a criminal. The fact that the entire thing was set up by someone
in the employ of the government isn't going to be mentioned at all by the mainstream media. 

For those who haven't caught on by now, your antenna should start to quiver in the presence of any
one, or especially a combination of the following behaviors/patterns demonstrated by a unit member: 

     (1) Wants to make bombs.
     (2) Wants to get everybody else to make bombs.
     (3) Wants people to buy/store large quantities of substances which could be used for
     explosives manufacture.
     (4) Fanatic about obtaining fully automatic weapons, without benefit of Class III
     license.
     (5) No obvious means of support, especially if they have lots of money to throw
     around.
     (6) Auto license tag changed on an irregular basis.
     (7) Encourages people to plan/do stupid things (raid armories, blow up office buildings,
     etc.)
     (8) Some groups can get auto tags run. They should be especially suspicious of
     anybody whose auto tag turns up a complete blank when run. (9) In our case, the guy
     was absolutely paranoid about his car being out of either his sight or his "wife's" sight for
     even a trivial amount of time.
     (10) Person claims to have a military background that they do not have. One individual
     claimed to be former Special Forces, but was found to be ignorant of some of the things
     that he should have known when quizzed by people who were former Special Forces.
     Depending on the level of trust that the members of your group have with each other, it
     might be a good idea to request to see the DD-214s of anybody claiming to have a
     military background.
     (11) One of your members has taken effective action to expose or block activities of
     the police or government preventing the expansion of or preservation of government
     power to control people and/or invade the privacy of the people.
     (12) One of your members (a) has an FFL; or (b) is involved in selling at gun shows; or
     (c) Is involved in promoting gun shows. 

Arguably the best way to deal with people who meet criteria 1-10 is simply to invite them to leave
the unit. As Starr and McCranie found out, trying to turn them in will do no good at all, so the next
best bet is to try to get them to leave. Failing that, disband unit, start again from scratch with people
you can trust after sufficient elapsed time. Given the way things are going right now, those who have
not joined up with public units may want to consider forming small closed units with just a small group
of people that they have known for a long time and that they trust. 

For persons in 11, and 12: Do your best to be sure the goons cannot find a pretext as that is what
they often work from. 

(*) Bill Albert of the Michigan Militia contributed to the list of items to look for and the discussion
which follows it. 



#!/usr/local/bin/perl -0777-- -export-a-crypto-system-sig -RC4-3-lines-PERL
@k=unpack('C*',pack('H*',shift));for(@t=@s=0..255){$y=($k[$_%@k]+$s[$x=$_
]+$y)%256;&S}$x=$y=0;for(unpack('C*',<>)){$x++;$y=($s[$x%=256]+$y)%256;
&S;print pack(C,$_^=$s[($s[$x]+$s[$y])%256])}sub S{@s[$x,$y]=@s[$y,$x]}




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 09:19:58 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: [Steve Coya] Harmful changes to Wassenaar Arrangement
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


To: cryptography@c2.net
Subject: [Steve Coya] Harmful changes to Wassenaar Arrangement
Reply-To: perry@piermont.com
From: "Perry E. Metzger" 
Date: 18 Dec 1998 18:51:52 -0500
Lines: 49
Sender: owner-cryptography@c2.net


FYI, from the IETF Secretariat.


Message-Id: <199812182315.SAA10709@ietf.org>
To: IETF-Announce: ;
Subject: Harmful changes to Wassenaar Arrangement
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 18:15:36 -0500
From: Steve Coya 


The IAB and the IESG deplore the recent changes to the Wassenaar
Arrangement (http://www.wassenaar.org) that further limit the
availability of encryption software by including it in the Wassenaar
agreement's list of export controlled software (section 5.A.2.a.1
of the list of dual-use goods, WA LIST 98 (1)).  As discussed in
RFC 1984, strong cryptography is essential to the security of the
Internet; restrictions on its use or availability will leave us
with a weak, vulnerable network, endanger the privacy of users and
businesses, and slow the growth of electronic commerce.

The new restrictions will have a particularly deleterious effect
on smaller countries, where there may not be enough of a local
market or local expertise to support the development of indigenous
cryptographic products.  But everyone is adversely affected by
this; the Internet is used world-wide, and even sites with access
to strong cryptographic products must be able to talk to those who
do not.  This in turn endangers their own security.

We are happy that the key size limit has been raised in some cases
from 40 bits to 64; however, this is still too small to provide
real security.  We estimate that after a modest capital investment,
a company or criminal organization could crack a 64-bit cipher in less
than a day for about $2500 per solution.  This cost will only drop
in coming years.  A report released about three years ago suggested
that 90-bit keys are the minimum for long-term security.

   Brian Carpenter (IAB Chair)
   Fred Baker (IESG and IETF Chair)

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 07:33:20 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: REPORT ON CYBER-TERRORISM
Message-ID: <19981218230834.905.qmail@hades.rpini.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



A new report on national security, titled "CyberCrime, CyberTerrorism and
CyberWarfare," calls for a complete overhaul of U.S. national security
agencies and policies in order to avoid crippling sabotage of the nation's
and corporate America's information infrastructure.  The report, which is
the product of the Center for Strategic and International Studies' Global
Organized Crime project headed up by former FBI and CIA director William
Webster, chronicles the results of a recent joint chief of staff exercise
code-named "Eligible Receiver."  The exercise involved a group of security
experts, known as a "red team," that used software widely available from
cracker Web sites to demonstrate the capability to penetrate and disable
major portions of the U.S. electric power grid and deny computer systems to
the entire Pacific military command and control operation.  The report
recommends the establishment of private sector-organized groups that would
evaluate and endorse information security standards in various industries,
coupled with increased government support for such efforts and the
development of a national security policy for the Information Revolution.
"The private sector cannot sit back and wait for government to lead," says
Sen. Charles Robb (D-Va.), a member of the Senate Select Committee on
Intelligence.  (InternetWeek 16 Dec 98)

#!/usr/local/bin/perl -0777-- -export-a-crypto-system-sig -RC4-3-lines-PERL
@k=unpack('C*',pack('H*',shift));for(@t=@s=0..255){$y=($k[$_%@k]+$s[$x=$_
]+$y)%256;&S}$x=$y=0;for(unpack('C*',<>)){$x++;$y=($s[$x%=256]+$y)%256;
&S;print pack(C,$_^=$s[($s[$x]+$s[$y])%256])}sub S{@s[$x,$y]=@s[$y,$x]}




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Missouri FreeNet Administration 
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 14:12:34 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Forwarded mail....
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



---------- Forwarded message ----------
::Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 05:21:34 +0100
::From: Anonymous 
::To: sysadmin@mfn.org

::You should be expecting a visit from the boys in the suits very soon.
::Have fun.  I hope your cellmate is a big guy they call "The Bull."

::Traitorous scum.
---------- Message Ends ----------

What I *really* love about these "patriots" is how they are not _afraid_
to stand by their words!  Awwww, c'mon!  You're on the "Side Of
Right(tm)", so why hide?  You afraid I'm gonna piss on your white picket
fence?

Yours, 
J.A. Terranson
sysadmin@mfn.org

--
If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they
should give serious consideration towards setting a better example:
Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of
unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in
the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and 
elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire
populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate...
This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States
as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers,
associates, or others.  Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of
those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the
first place...
--------------------------------------------------------------------






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mark 13 
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 07:25:56 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Intel's Security Plans Worry PC Builders
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I wonder what government sponsored back doors they plan to include...

http://www.techweb.com/wire/story/TWB19981214S0008

                Intel's Security Plans Worry PC Builders

                (12/14/98, 3:49 p.m. ET)
                By Rick Boyd-Merritt and Mark Carroll, EE Times 

                Intel will add new security and software functions to future
                chip sets in a move that will boost the profile of its
                upcoming Katmai processors as key silicon for multimedia
                and e-commerce. But the plan is raising concerns among
                software, semiconductor and systems companies that fear
                the processor giant could wind up encroaching on their
                markets, extending its own reach deeper into the PC
                architecture.

                Intel's plans center around a so-called firmware hub,
                essentially a flash memory with key BIOS functions,
                which will be part of its Camino, Carmel, and Whitney chip
                sets. Those products will accompany next year's Katmai
                processors and are expected to be used in the Merced line,
                too. 

                "This is an example of Intel taking in one more piece of the
                PC architecture," said a senior R&D manager with a major
                PC company who asked not to be named. 

                Intel would not comment on its unannounced products.
                However, the key features of the chip are beginning to
                come to light based on reports from multiple sources. The
                firmware hub is "basically a flash chip with locks on its
                read and write capabilities that can be opened using a
                cryptographic protocol," said another source briefed by
                Intel. 

                Hardware security functions include a cryptographic
                engine to authenticate digital certificates Intel or a third
                party could load in. The chip could hold multiple
                certificates, each with permission to grant specific
                features, such as to permit an operating system or an
                MPEG player to run. They would also ensure a software
                program licensed to one user was not copied and run on
                another machine, a common practice. In addition, the
                certificates will act like unique serial numbers, identifying a
                given machine in any Internet or corporate network
                transaction, sources said. 

                The hub may also include a random-number generator to
                create public keys for encryption and help enable
                encrypted transmissions between PCs. That would provide
                security for e-commerce and software downloads,
                possibly including software modules for host-based
                modems, MPEG players, or audio codecs that are
                housed in the firmware hub and run on the CPU. 

                Another feature sources have mentioned is physical
                security, linking sensors to the hub so it may report
                problems to a central network administrator if the case is
                tampered with or peripherals are removed. 

                Even though the firmware -- and the chip sets it is part of
                -- are not due for production until at least mid-1999,
                samples have been available in Taiwan for some time. 

                "We have had samples of the firmware hub for a while,"
                said a project manager at First International Computer, in
                Taiwan. "We really haven't done too much with it yet. It is
                still not quite clear when it will be used and what its 
                full functions will be." 

                The hub chip is designed to incorporate new features into
                the PC upon start-up, the manager said, not to replace the
                standard BIOS, the key software that controls system I/O
                  peripherals software. 

                "After a PC is turned on, the firmware hub will be
                accessed and then the regular BIOS," said a BIOS
                engineer with another Taiwanese company. "The hub will
                affect the standard BIOS architecture, but it certainly
                won't replace it. That's not its purpose." 

                Yet the prospect of a possible Intel incursion into BIOS is
                giving some industry observers the willies. Adding to their
                concern is the fact that Intel has not provided technical
                details about its implementation yet. One analyst said the
                hub will act as a BIOS registry, a place from which
                software emulation and upgrades can be controlled. 

                Sources close to Intel suggested the Santa Clara, Calif.,
                company would be leery of entering a new PC-related
                market while under the shadow of a Federal Trade
                Commission investigation. The company's motive is simply
                to bring new features to the PC, enhancing sales for
                corporate and consumer users, these sources said. 

                Still, "If Intel controls what and how stuff gets put in the
                BIOS, that's really significant," said one analyst.
                "That's a wonderful control choke point."





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Frederick Burroughs 
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 14:12:35 +0800
To: Cypherpunks 
Subject: Preemptive, proactivism
Message-ID: <367B3EAA.2F870154@shentel.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Preemptive ;-)

Sources within the US government and military counterterrorism offices
have confirmed that the timing of "Desert Fox" was carefully planned and
coordinated. Counterterrorism planners are anticipating terrorists will
be incited into action as a result of US military action so close to the
Muslim holy period of Ramadan. Terrorists with middle eastern ties may
decide that the religious holiday observance of Christmas would be a
good time to retaliate against western targets. "There's a proactive
element involved in conducting military operations near Ramadan", one
source said, "We won't be opening presents this Christmas, we'll be on
our posts alert and watching."

Another source said that the House impeachment vote was a serendipitous
occurrence. "It actually helps with our activities. The bad guys think
we're distracted, that there's no leadership. Actually, we've never been
more focused, we're hyped. Our operations have been in high gear since
the Africa (embassy) bombings, Desert Fox is an outgrowth of that. We
know what these guys are going to do before they do."

The recent cacophony of events in Washington D.C. may soon take on an
aura of japanese surrealism. The secret service is weighing the
necessity of having White House visitors and press conference attendees
remove their shoes. The ability to disperse anthrax toxin from the
hollowed-out heels of shoes is something that cannot be ignored. Sources
said that such an incident, occurring in areas of pedestrian traffic,
would disperse a toxin with tragic effectiveness. "It doesn't take much
imagination to see the consequences of spilling a powder on the rug in a
White House press briefing, lots of shuffling around in a closed
environment, lots of inhaled toxin."

What's scary is that someone could disperse a toxin unwittingly. "Do you
know where your shoes are 24 hours a day?" an agent said. "This is
something we have to think about, but short of an actual scare, I don't
think we'll be asking you to take off your shoes. Not just yet."




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 15:34:24 +0800
To: users@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (SSZ User Mail List)
Subject: NEW TRAVEL INFO -- Worldwide Caution (fwd)
Message-ID: <199812190722.BAA23900@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:
>From owner-travel-advisories@nic.stolaf.edu Fri Dec 18 23:27:02 1998
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 11:44:02 -0500
From: owner-travel-advisories 
Subject: NEW TRAVEL INFO -- Worldwide Caution
Sender: "U.S. Department of State" <76702.1202@compuserve.com>
To: travel-advisories@stolaf.edu
Message-ID: <199812171147_MC2-63F5-4090@compuserve.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
Precedence: bulk
X-List-Info: LN=travel-advisories WHOM=76702.1202@compuserve.com

STATE DEPARTMENT TRAVEL INFORMATION - Worldwide Caution - Iraq
============================================================
Worldwide Caution - Iraq - Public Announcement
 December 16, 1998

In light of the military operations against Iraq and the potential 
for retaliatory action, the Department of State urges U.S. citizens 
traveling or residing abroad to review their security practices, to 
remain alert to the changing situation, and to exercise much greater 
caution than usual.  While the U.S. Government has no specific 
information about threats to American citizens at this time, the 
potential for retaliatory acts against U.S. citizens exists.

American citizens traveling or residing abroad are reminded to 
maintain a high level of vigilance and to take appropriate measures 
to protect their personal security.  In addition, American citizens 
should maintain a low profile, vary routes and times for all travel, 
and treat mail from unfamiliar sources with suspicion.

American citizens traveling or residing abroad should contact the 
nearest U.S. embassy or consulate by telephone or fax for up-to-date 
information on security conditions.  Current information on 
operations of U.S. embassies and consulates is also available on the 
Internet at http://travel.state.gov.  In addition, U.S. citizens 
planning to travel abroad should consult the Department of State 
Public Announcements, Travel Warnings, Consular Information Sheets, 
and regional brochures.

This Public Announcement supplements the November 12, 1998 
Worldwide Caution Public Announcement and the November 3 Public 
Announcement on Iraq and expires on March 15, 1999.

----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- -----
The "travel-advisories@stolaf.edu" mailing list is the official Internet and
BITNET distribution point for the U.S. State Department Travel Warnings and
Consular Information Sheets.  To unsubscribe, send a message containing the
word "unsubscribe" to:	travel-advisories-request@stolaf.edu

Archives of past "travel-advisories" postings are available at the URL:
"http://www.stolaf.edu/network/travel-advisories.html" or via Gopher:
gopher.stolaf.edu, Internet Resources/US-State-Department-Travel-Advisories




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: KKappa21@aol.com
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 01:44:18 +0800
Subject: SECRETS REVEALED!!
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



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HOW TO BEAT THE
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Alan Olsen 
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 04:06:50 +0800
To: riburr@shentel.net
Subject: Re: Preemptive, proactivism
In-Reply-To: <367B3EAA.2F870154@shentel.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981219114004.03cb9c20@clueserver.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 12:50 AM 12/19/98 -0500, Frederick Burroughs wrote:

>What's scary is that someone could disperse a toxin unwittingly. "Do you
>know where your shoes are 24 hours a day?" an agent said. "This is
>something we have to think about, but short of an actual scare, I don't
>think we'll be asking you to take off your shoes. Not just yet."

"Shoes for Terrorists! Shoes for the dead! Shoes for Terrorists!"

I think they need to investigate the influence of Firesign Theatre over our
security agencies.

---
|      Bill Clinton - Bringing back the Sixties one Nixon at a time!     |
|"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmermann unites all| Disclaimer:         |
| mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!"  | Ignore the man      |
|                                                  | behind the keyboard.|
|         http://www.ctrl-alt-del.com/~alan/       |alan@ctrl-alt-del.com|




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William J.Hartwell" 
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 05:12:11 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: MS and Y2K
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981219134839.007c8780@mail.xroads.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





Redmond, WA - Microsoft announced today that the official release date for
the new operating system "Windows 2000" will be delayed until the second
quarter of 1901.

--
					William J. Hartwell
					   (602)987-8436
					  Queencreek, Az.

billh@ibag.com			billh@interdem.com		billh@hartwell.net




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "X" 
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 05:38:45 +0800
To: "William J.Hartwell" 
Subject: RE: MS and Y2K
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981219134839.007c8780@mail.xroads.com>
Message-ID: <000601be2b92$6d295f00$6a8a83d0@ibm>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Damn.  I needed that software.  ;^)

~> -----Original Message-----
~> From: owner-cypherpunks@minder.net
~> [mailto:owner-cypherpunks@minder.net]On Behalf Of William J.Hartwell
~> Sent: Saturday, December 19, 1998 1:49 PM
~> To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com
~> Subject: MS and Y2K
~> 
~> 
~> 
~> 
~> Redmond, WA - Microsoft announced today that the official 
~> release date for
~> the new operating system "Windows 2000" will be delayed until the second
~> quarter of 1901.
~> 
~> --
~> 					William J. Hartwell
~> 					   (602)987-8436
~> 					  Queencreek, Az.
~> 
~> billh@ibag.com			billh@interdem.com		
~> billh@hartwell.net
~> 
~> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 06:49:51 +0800
To: "Erich Moechel" 
Subject: Re: international free crypto campaign
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981219141405.009104e0@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



They're _all_ animated blinking things.  Ugly.
Some of them have good content, but there need to be
static non-animated regular GIFs.
Aside from the aesthetic issues, there are probably still browsers
that don't support them, and certainly anything printed on
dead trees or other static media won't display the animation.


>We are in the midst of developing logos 4 the global campaign
>proposed as followup 2 the Wassenaar decision.
>The logos are here:
>
> http://www.quintessenz.at/freecrypto.html
>
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 06:37:58 +0800
To: Frederick Burroughs 
Subject: Re: Preemptive, proactivism
In-Reply-To: <367B3EAA.2F870154@shentel.net>
Message-ID: <199812192205.OAA13533@smtp.well.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 12:50 AM 12-19-98 -0500, Frederick Burroughs wrote:
>The recent cacophony of events in Washington D.C. may soon take on an
>aura of japanese surrealism. The secret service is weighing the
>necessity of having White House visitors and press conference attendees
>remove their shoes. The ability to disperse anthrax toxin from the

April 1 is coming early, I see.

I go to White House events and other meetings inside the WH complex
regularly, and believe me, there are other options the SS has besides
asking reporters to go shoeless.

-Declan





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Salvatore Denaro" 
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 07:05:10 +0800
To: "Frederick Burroughs" 
Subject: RE: FCPUNX:Clinton Attacks Iraq
In-Reply-To: <199812190315.TAA25505@anon7b.sunder.net>
Message-ID: <008f01be2b9f$1dac7b30$0201010a@aurora.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>  From     : Frederick Burroughs 
>  Subj     : Clinton Attacks Iraq
>  Date     : Wed, 16 Dec 1998 21:13:10 -0500
> Eric Cordian wrote:
> > Looks like Bubba has launched a massive strike on Iraq to draw attention
> > from his cocksucking problems.
> 
> No, I blame his irritability on lack of nookie. Unable to get his 
> his willy
> slick of late, it's not surprising he needs to kick the dog, or lob some
> ordinance into the backyard of the middle eastern assholes nextdoor. Maybe
> if he gets drunk enough he'll take some pot shots... Yeehaa!

Caught between Iraq and a hard-one?

Perhaps would should allow our elected officials to keep concubines. After all, no man is going to end the world on a crappy Monday morning if there a chance of getting some that night. I'm willing to bet that the money used to launch one cruise missile could support keeping a group of well funded presidential concubines around for the duration of his eight year presidency. 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Missouri FreeNet Administration 
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 08:15:46 +0800
To: Salvatore Denaro 
Subject: RE: FCPUNX:Clinton Attacks Iraq
In-Reply-To: <008f01be2b9f$1dac7b30$0201010a@aurora.panix.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




::I'm willing to bet that the money used to launch one cruise missile
::could support keeping a group of well funded presidential concubines
::around for the duration of his eight year presidency. 

Hey, we're not talking about JFK here ya'know... A cruise missile is
only about 800K$ (sans exotic warhead) apiece: hardly enough to keep
as many concubines as Klinton would likely need...

Maybe RonCo can make some kind of Presidential Satisfier instead of 
all those slicing/dicing machines they sell this time of year???  ;-0

Yours, 
J.A. Terranson
sysadmin@mfn.org

--
If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they
should give serious consideration towards setting a better example:
Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of
unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in
the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and 
elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire
populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate...
This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States
as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers,
associates, or others.  Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of
those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the
first place...
--------------------------------------------------------------------





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 17:41:56 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: How to Spot a Government Infiltrator
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981219204957.008297e0@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 05:57 PM 12/18/98 -0800, some allegedly anonymous dissipator
forwarded an allegedly militia-movement article on
>	How to Spot a Government Infiltrator 
and why you should be afraid, very afraid.

Back in the 60s-90s, the Peace Movement dealt with this
kind of problem as well, with the FBI and others trying
to interfere with their interference with government.
And the Commies and Labor Movement before them.
Now it's the right wing's turn, as well as
libertarians, and crypto-privacy advocates, and
financial-privacy advocates, and chemical-privacy enthusiasts.

> moles
Not a problem here - anybody can subscribe to the list,
and the physical meetings are open.  We even had a guy from
Colorado who said his name was "Lawrence" who hung around
for half a meeting and disappeared quietly before
any public notice was taken of his probable identity :-)

> dissipators
> 	Given that the people who are attracted to the constitutionalist 
>	militia movement usually tend to be strong willed and opinionated
>	people to begin with, such an agent may find that his task is 
>	somewhat easier than it might be if he were working with other groups. 

Certainly we've got no problem with that here :-)
Ok, it has happened, and the tools that people built dealing
with Detweiler(s) and spammers have been the beginnings of things
we'd need in the future anyway.

> agent provocateur
>     (2) Wants to get everybody else to make bombs.

In this case, it's "wants to get everybody to export crypto and get busted",
but the good guys do that too.

I was once at a roughly 10-person protest against the previous day's 
workers-without-identity-papers bust by the local La Migra, cops, and press,
and one of the folks from "Refuse and Resist" who showed up kept saying we 
should go out and bust the sheriff's departments' heads.
Maybe he was just a bad peacenik as opposed to a provocateur.

>     (5) No obvious means of support, especially if they have 
>	lots of money to throw around.

The classic way that Commies recognized infiltrators during the
Red Scare days was that they were the ones who paid their dues :-)

In the cypherpunk business, nobody's unemployed, they're just
computer consultants, or freelance journalists, or professional investors, 
or retired successful entrepreneurs, or financial privacy consultants
who attend money laundering conventions, so this one's no help;
might as well suspect folks who are long-term employees of
telecommunications monopolies or defense contractors.....



				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 17:48:47 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: CyberScam
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981023111259.007c9100@max-web.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981219212836.008297e0@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 12:43 PM 12/16/98 -0800, Tim May wrote
>I wanted to see what other nonsense this nitwit has written, and found this:
>At 10:12 AM -0800 10/23/98, Kevlar wrote:
>>My bad. You were serious. But still...
>
>My bad _what_? The fragment "My bad" is nonsense.

Don't be an old fogey, Tim :-)  I've heard the phrase from
young and otherwise at least semi-educated people.
Like, language evolves, y'know -- it's far out that the
younger generation is participating in the literary process, man.
Donaldson's law suggests that Sturgeon was an optimist,
and one hopes that this phrase will soon be recognized for
its place in the 90+% and fall out of fashion,
rather than spurring a major industry like the annoying
"Successories" wall-plaques with MBA/salesdroid jargon on them.
At least its meaning is generally clear in context,
unlike some of the popular post-modernist drivel,
and its artificial stupidity is no more artificial than 
using "mea culpa" in modern English.

>>Mozilla (NS), IE, and many other less well known (but certianly as popular)
>>WEB browsers have encryption built right into them, so you can do things
>>"Securely". Nobody uses their real name on the internet, unless it's for
>>buisness,
>Nonsense. Many of us use our "real names" on the Internet, right here on
>this non-business list. In fact, real names outnumber nyms by probably
>10-1. Ditto for most of the Usenet and most mailing lists. Chat rooms may
>be a different story...I wouldn't know about them.

Similarly, IRC and CuSeeMe appear to be nym-oriented rather than
real-sounding-name-oriented.  AOL isn't exactly the internet,
but it tends to use screen names.  I'm not sure about ICQ, but 
I think it's also nym-oriented, and it's got 10 million or so users.

>>Naturally this is in compareison to the internet's predacessor (Not
>>ARPAnet, that was a government project. BBS's came first)
>>>itgrumble>, which were mostly free to anyone who came and wanted to dl/ul a
>>file or post in the message base. And usally if it wasn't open you could
>>apply for access.
>
>No, BBBs (not "BBS's") did _not_ come first. I had an ARPANet account in
>1973 or so, long before any meaningful BBSs were available. (And the
>ARPANet goes back to 1967-8 or so.)

The Better Business Bureau has been around much longer than that?

Ward Christiansen, inventor of XModem, also credits himself with
inventing the "first" BBS in 1978.  Perhaps it was the first for
cheap PCs, but I'd already been using the Plato Notesfile system 
for about 3 years by then, which was really just a better BBS 
running on a much more expensive computer and terminals
(plus it had multiplayer interactive Space War :-)
and it wasn't too new when I started using it.

And ARPAnet mailing lists had been around for quite a while before 78,
as well as mailing lists in the BITnet/CSnet/Phonenet environments.
Usenet emerged around 1981, and for the first few years was
primarily running on dialup UUCP as well as higher-speed LANs
of various sorts.
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 14:03:21 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Anthrax Theatre
In-Reply-To: <199812200446.WAA16015@wire.insync.net>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 8:46 PM -0800 12/19/98, Eric Cordian wrote:
>Force hundreds of people to be imprisoned against their will, and
>injected with potentially lethal antibiotics, with one simple 25 cent
>phone call.
>
>-----
>
>LOS ANGELES (AP) -- Ninety-one people were held for almost eight hours
>as a health precaution after an anonymous threat claimed anthrax had
>been released into the air ducts of a federal building.
>
>The people were given antibiotics and special suits to wear over their
>clothes Friday before preliminary tests showed none of them had been
>infected with the potentially deadly bacterium.
>
>Authorities held the people, most of them U.S. Bankruptcy Court staff
>members, as firefighters and FBI investigators tested the ventilation
>system for anthrax spores. Those tests also came up empty, said
>Jonathan Fielding, spokesman for the Los Angeles County Health
>Department.
>
>The FBI would not release details of how the threat was delivered.


Which Cypherpunks live in or near L.A. and are involved in some way with
the Bankruptcy Court?

--Tim May

We would go to their homes, and we'd kill their wives and
their children. We would kill their families
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 14:23:32 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com
Subject: Re: Anthrax Theatre
In-Reply-To: <199812200517.GAA00108@replay.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 9:17 PM -0800 12/19/98, Anonymous wrote:

>The FBI is in between a rock and a hard-on here.
>
>If anthrax spores really had been released into those air ducts, it could
>potentially infect anyone in the building. They can't very well let these
>people walk out when they might be carriers of antrax. That's the power of
>bioweapons: Infect a bunch of people and they do the work of spreading it
>for you.

This is not how anthrax spreads. Communicability between humans is nearly
nonexistent.

--Tim May

We would go to their homes, and we'd kill their wives and
their children. We would kill their families
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Eric Cordian 
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 13:09:46 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Anthrax Theatre
Message-ID: <199812200446.WAA16015@wire.insync.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Force hundreds of people to be imprisoned against their will, and
injected with potentially lethal antibiotics, with one simple 25 cent
phone call.
 
-----
 
LOS ANGELES (AP) -- Ninety-one people were held for almost eight hours
as a health precaution after an anonymous threat claimed anthrax had
been released into the air ducts of a federal building.
 
The people were given antibiotics and special suits to wear over their
clothes Friday before preliminary tests showed none of them had been
infected with the potentially deadly bacterium.
 
Authorities held the people, most of them U.S. Bankruptcy Court staff
members, as firefighters and FBI investigators tested the ventilation
system for anthrax spores. Those tests also came up empty, said
Jonathan Fielding, spokesman for the Los Angeles County Health
Department.
 
The FBI would not release details of how the threat was delivered.

-- 
Eric Michael Cordian 0+
O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division
"Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ian Briggs 
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 15:30:22 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Open Letter To William Klinton (fwd)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <4.1.19981219230139.0204c840@deepwell.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>	Impeachment is no longer enough: only assasination could hope to
>bring Justice to the world at this point.

Great.  Expect a Secret Service visit from this e-mail
Im sooooo glad you thought you should share this with the rest of the list.

Can't wait to say "got mine" like all the rest of the cool people...



Ian



Welcome to 1984
as with all goverment projects, its a bit late 
and slightly overbudget
	-Ian Briggs.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 07:22:50 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Iwhack
Message-ID: <199812192253.XAA04374@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 07:50 PM 12/17/98 -0500, Frederick Burroughs wrote:
>Specifically, positioning data from GPS receivers used by weapons
inspectors at
>inspection sites in Iraq provided precise targeting coordinates for US cruise
>missiles. Information from UN inspectors was also used to prioritize targets
>into several categories, including: High threat defensive sites such as
>antiaircraft missile and radar facilities, medium threat command and
>communications sites, and low threat power and manufacturing plants. GPS data
>was essential for targeting high threat sites located near residential areas.

It is not always entirely propoganda that embassy people, peace corps types, 
businessmen, etc. are spies.








  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 07:24:13 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199812192258.XAA04791@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



::
Subject: infiltration

At 05:57 PM 12/18/98 -0800, Pallas Anonymous Remailer wrote:
>How to Spot a Government Infiltrator 
>
>                              by Mike Johnson
>
>Arguably the best way to deal with people who meet criteria 1-10 is simply
to invite them to leave
>the unit. As Starr and McCranie found out, trying to turn them in will do
no good at all, so the next
>best bet is to try to get them to leave. 

You may also want to post their faces anonymously on relevent lists.
Phrase it to avoid liability, or not.  False alarms are regrettably
a consequence of security.



Ms Winchester










  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 12:22:35 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: Intel security hub
Message-ID: <199812200355.EAA26562@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> I wonder what government sponsored back doors they plan to include...
> 
> http://www.techweb.com/wire/story/TWB19981214S0008

This has been mentioned before. Only suggested response so far is to fight
tooth and nail to ensure that hub-dependent programs can work transparently
with a software fill-in. Otherwise you could potentially need to break a
tamper-resistant chip, patch the software (fortify^2...), or pull off some such
superhuman feat.

(By the way, the address for letters to the editors of Mobile Computing and
Communications, in case you want to respond to the articles mentioned, is
) 

More redundant reiterations of senseless nonsense:

I'm not so confident it'd be backdoored, but if it's closed-source (not
unlikely) that is, for obvious reasons, bad. Even if not, it will, with
probability just barely <1, result in Intel as a major CA. I don't think the
hub'd be backdoored because it'd be a risky investment for anybody to backdoor
it; although I'm not sure the hub'd be closed-source, anything trivially and
undetectably compromised is about as bad; Intel'd use the hub to become a CA
just because it makes business sense.

> 
>                 Intel's Security Plans Worry PC Builders
> 
>                 (12/14/98, 3:49 p.m. ET)
>                 By Rick Boyd-Merritt and Mark Carroll, EE Times 
> 
>                 Intel will add new security and software functions to future
>                 chip sets in a move that will boost the profile of its
>                 upcoming Katmai processors as key silicon for multimedia
>                 and e-commerce. But the plan is raising concerns among
>                 software, semiconductor and systems companies that fear
>                 the processor giant could wind up encroaching on their
>                 markets, extending its own reach deeper into the PC
>                 architecture.
> 
>                 Intel's plans center around a so-called firmware hub,
>                 essentially a flash memory with key BIOS functions,
>                 which will be part of its Camino, Carmel, and Whitney chip
>                 sets. Those products will accompany next year's Katmai
>                 processors and are expected to be used in the Merced line,
>                 too. 
> 
>                 "This is an example of Intel taking in one more piece of the
>                 PC architecture," said a senior R&D manager with a major
>                 PC company who asked not to be named. 
> 
>                 Intel would not comment on its unannounced products.
>                 However, the key features of the chip are beginning to
>                 come to light based on reports from multiple sources. The
>                 firmware hub is "basically a flash chip with locks on its
>                 read and write capabilities that can be opened using a
>                 cryptographic protocol," said another source briefed by
>                 Intel. 
> 
>                 Hardware security functions include a cryptographic
>                 engine to authenticate digital certificates Intel or a third
>                 party could load in. The chip could hold multiple
>                 certificates, each with permission to grant specific
>                 features, such as to permit an operating system or an
>                 MPEG player to run. They would also ensure a software
>                 program licensed to one user was not copied and run on
>                 another machine, a common practice. In addition, the
>                 certificates will act like unique serial numbers, identifying a
>                 given machine in any Internet or corporate network
>                 transaction, sources said. 
> 
>                 The hub may also include a random-number generator to
>                 create public keys for encryption and help enable
>                 encrypted transmissions between PCs. That would provide
>                 security for e-commerce and software downloads,
>                 possibly including software modules for host-based
>                 modems, MPEG players, or audio codecs that are
>                 housed in the firmware hub and run on the CPU. 
> 
>                 Another feature sources have mentioned is physical
>                 security, linking sensors to the hub so it may report
>                 problems to a central network administrator if the case is
>                 tampered with or peripherals are removed. 
> 
>                 Even though the firmware -- and the chip sets it is part of
>                 -- are not due for production until at least mid-1999,
>                 samples have been available in Taiwan for some time. 
> 
>                 "We have had samples of the firmware hub for a while,"
>                 said a project manager at First International Computer, in
>                 Taiwan. "We really haven't done too much with it yet. It is
>                 still not quite clear when it will be used and what its 
>                 full functions will be." 
> 
>                 The hub chip is designed to incorporate new features into
>                 the PC upon start-up, the manager said, not to replace the
>                 standard BIOS, the key software that controls system I/O
>                   peripherals software. 
> 
>                 "After a PC is turned on, the firmware hub will be
>                 accessed and then the regular BIOS," said a BIOS
>                 engineer with another Taiwanese company. "The hub will
>                 affect the standard BIOS architecture, but it certainly
>                 won't replace it. That's not its purpose." 
> 
>                 Yet the prospect of a possible Intel incursion into BIOS is
>                 giving some industry observers the willies. Adding to their
>                 concern is the fact that Intel has not provided technical
>                 details about its implementation yet. One analyst said the
>                 hub will act as a BIOS registry, a place from which
>                 software emulation and upgrades can be controlled. 
> 
>                 Sources close to Intel suggested the Santa Clara, Calif.,
>                 company would be leery of entering a new PC-related
>                 market while under the shadow of a Federal Trade
>                 Commission investigation. The company's motive is simply
>                 to bring new features to the PC, enhancing sales for
>                 corporate and consumer users, these sources said. 
> 
>                 Still, "If Intel controls what and how stuff gets put in the
>                 BIOS, that's really significant," said one analyst.
>                 "That's a wonderful control choke point."
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 13:34:38 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: Anthrax Theatre
Message-ID: <199812200517.GAA00108@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>Force hundreds of people to be imprisoned against their will, and
>injected with potentially lethal antibiotics, with one simple 25 cent
>phone call.
>
>-----
>
>LOS ANGELES (AP) -- Ninety-one people were held for almost eight hours
>as a health precaution after an anonymous threat claimed anthrax had
>been released into the air ducts of a federal building.
>
>The people were given antibiotics and special suits to wear over their
>clothes Friday before preliminary tests showed none of them had been
>infected with the potentially deadly bacterium.
>
>Authorities held the people, most of them U.S. Bankruptcy Court staff
>members, as firefighters and FBI investigators tested the ventilation
>system for anthrax spores. Those tests also came up empty, said
>Jonathan Fielding, spokesman for the Los Angeles County Health
>Department.
>
>The FBI would not release details of how the threat was delivered.

The FBI is in between a rock and a hard-on here.

If anthrax spores really had been released into those air ducts, it could
potentially infect anyone in the building. They can't very well let these
people walk out when they might be carriers of antrax. That's the power of
bioweapons: Infect a bunch of people and they do the work of spreading it
for you.

>From a medical standpoint, it may be better to inject them with antibiotics
before the test results are back, in an attempt to increase chances of
survival. I can also understand the containment suits.

The fact that it can be done with a 25 cent phone call is funny. 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 14:52:01 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: Re: Anthrax Theatre
Message-ID: <199812200637.HAA04958@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>At 9:17 PM -0800 12/19/98, Anonymous wrote:
>
>>The FBI is in between a rock and a hard-on here.
>>
>>If anthrax spores really had been released into those air ducts, it could
>>potentially infect anyone in the building. They can't very well let these
>>people walk out when they might be carriers of antrax. That's the power of
>>bioweapons: Infect a bunch of people and they do the work of spreading it
>>for you.
>
>This is not how anthrax spreads. Communicability between humans is nearly
>nonexistent.

If this is true, we've caught the media in yet another lie. The media likes
to paint the picture that anthrax can be released in an airport and spread
to all corners of the country in a matter of hours.

Typical of the media. Shame on me for accessing anything they've shoved down
my throat. :)




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 20:29:59 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: The "Married Lesbian Underground" (was: Re: Huffington a Fag)
Message-ID: <199812201141.MAA21834@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



jackel@melbpc.org.au (jackel@melbpc.org.au) wrote:

> >In fact, this is common enough that there are several "Married
> >Lesbian" discussion boards, IRC chat channels, and private mailing
> >lists where women involved in this deception swap notes, and plan
> >their strategy.
> 
> I too have noted this scenario, of women leaving their husbands,
> getting the money and children, then coming out.  I have seen parts of
> an English (UK) book for lesbians advocating precisely that.
> 
> Re the net forums, if you have further information/locations, etc.
> would you please send it to me at the above email address or via the
> alt.mens-rights newsgroup - even if they are just pointers in the
> right direction.
> 
> Thank you very much.

One of them is the "Married But Lesbian" (MarBLes) mailing list
moderated by Anna Holmes  and hosted on the
queernet.org server.  This one is so ultra-paranoid that potential
subscribers are required to submit biographic information to the
moderator and undergo a screening "interview" of some sort prior to
being admitted to the list.  You can read more info on this lesbian
networking tool at this URL at lesbian.org:

  http://www.lesbian.org/lesbian-lists/marbles.html

The idea of using men as "a sperm bank with a checkbook" is really
insidious, but by the time many of the victims of this deception
find out they've been deceived and used, it's too late.  The above
URL, BTW, says that the list has a panel of six formerly married
lesbians for "support", which seems to be a euphemism for coaching.
Since marriage is a civil contract I wonder if such willful
"interference with the performance of a contract" has ever been
redressed in court.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: HyperReal-Anon 
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 22:38:28 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <3e797bb14d3337e2344cd4ff7c0f6b09@anonymous>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>    This has not been lost on those who battle right-wing terror. Early
>    next year, the FBI will launch a nationwide assessment of the threat
>    of domestic terrorism on and around Jan. 1, 2000. "I worry that every
>    day something could happen somewhere," Robert Blitzer, head of the
>    FBIs domestic terrorism unit, told the Los Angeles Times recently (see
>    interview also in this issue).
> 
>    "The odds are that something will happen."
> 

The odds are that *something* will happen, if only because they
finally decide to go and burn Tim May out.

#!/usr/local/bin/perl -0777-- -export-a-crypto-system-sig -RC4-3-lines-PERL
@k=unpack('C*',pack('H*',shift));for(@t=@s=0..255){$y=($k[$_%@k]+$s[$x=$_
]+$y)%256;&S}$x=$y=0;for(unpack('C*',<>)){$x++;$y=($s[$x%=256]+$y)%256;
&S;print pack(C,$_^=$s[($s[$x]+$s[$y])%256])}sub S{@s[$x,$y]=@s[$y,$x]}





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: rivers@twistedtunes.com (Bob Rivers)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 10:27:22 +0800
To: 
Subject: It's Christmas Time
Message-ID: <0299e13180019c8COSWEB2@twistedtunes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Hi Twisted Tunes fans!

Just a short note to let you know there are brand new Twisted Tunes in the
Jukebox at http://www.twistedtunes.com  We are stepping up our production
schedule for '99, so we'll let you know as new songs are added.

If you want to give someone that TWISTED CHRISTMAS gift, our online store
is
stocked with all titles and we ship daily. Go to
http://www.twistedtunes.com/order to pick up a cool stocking stuffer.

As always, thanks for your support...

Bob Rivers

PS. This is really me. I wrote this e-mail. Not a form letter. Honest.
What
do I got to do to prove it to you?




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: rivers@twistedtunes.com (Bob Rivers)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 10:28:13 +0800
To: 
Subject: It's Christmas Time
Message-ID: <026ed13180019c8COSWEB2@twistedtunes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Hi Twisted Tunes fans!

Just a short note to let you know there are brand new Twisted Tunes in the
Jukebox at http://www.twistedtunes.com  We are stepping up our production
schedule for '99, so we'll let you know as new songs are added.

If you want to give someone that TWISTED CHRISTMAS gift, our online store
is
stocked with all titles and we ship daily. Go to
http://www.twistedtunes.com/order to pick up a cool stocking stuffer.

As always, thanks for your support...

Bob Rivers

PS. This is really me. I wrote this e-mail. Not a form letter. Honest.
What
do I got to do to prove it to you?




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: rivers@twistedtunes.com (Bob Rivers)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 19:50:09 +0800
To: 
Subject: It's Christmast Time
Message-ID: <08d5531011119c8COSWEB2@twistedtunes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Hi Twisted Tunes fans!

Just a short note to let you know there are brand new Twisted Tunes in the
Jukebox at http://www.twistedtunes.com  We are stepping up our production
schedule for '99, so we'll let you know as new songs are added.

If you want to give someone that TWISTED CHRISTMAS gift, our online store
is
stocked with all titles and we ship daily. Go to
http://www.twistedtunes.com/order to pick up a cool stocking stuffer.

As always, thanks for your support...

Bob Rivers

PS. This is really me. I wrote this e-mail. Not a form letter. Honest.
What
do I got to do to prove it to you?





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: rivers@twistedtunes.com (Bob Rivers)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 19:55:24 +0800
To: 
Subject: It's Christmast Time
Message-ID: <08ced33011119c8COSWEB2@twistedtunes.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Hi Twisted Tunes fans!

Just a short note to let you know there are brand new Twisted Tunes in the
Jukebox at http://www.twistedtunes.com  We are stepping up our production
schedule for '99, so we'll let you know as new songs are added.

If you want to give someone that TWISTED CHRISTMAS gift, our online store
is
stocked with all titles and we ship daily. Go to
http://www.twistedtunes.com/order to pick up a cool stocking stuffer.

As always, thanks for your support...

Bob Rivers

PS. This is really me. I wrote this e-mail. Not a form letter. Honest.
What
do I got to do to prove it to you?





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: cypherpu 
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 01:15:49 +0800
To: Bill Stewart 
Subject: Re: CyberScam
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981219212836.008297e0@idiom.com>
Message-ID: <199812201649.IAA21181@rainbow.thinkthink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Actually ward doesnt claim to have invented the first BBS
he used to claim he had invented the first microcomputer based BBS(
And that he did I used to run his software in chicago about a week after its 
initial releas on a pmmi-103?? modem(300 baud)....I wondered what ever
happened to ward... Modem7 was a GOOD protocol at the time ...
aonly to be supplanted by first ymodem then zmodem from chuck forsberg...
P.s. I used to play on the plato system also(its official charter at the
time was limited to educators and Comp-sci typs (of which I was the later)
Plato was GREAT for multiplayer games like "intergalactic conflict",(memory is
poor here)... BTW why Plato had  a messaging system of sorts it is
GREATLY stretching it to call it a BBS...


      cheers
      n OLD fart




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 01:37:54 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: Re: Anthrax Theatre
In-Reply-To: <199812200637.HAA04958@replay.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 10:37 PM -0800 12/19/98, Anonymous wrote:
>>At 9:17 PM -0800 12/19/98, Anonymous wrote:
>>
>>>The FBI is in between a rock and a hard-on here.
>>>
>>>If anthrax spores really had been released into those air ducts, it could
>>>potentially infect anyone in the building. They can't very well let these
>>>people walk out when they might be carriers of antrax. That's the power of
>>>bioweapons: Infect a bunch of people and they do the work of spreading it
>>>for you.
>>
>>This is not how anthrax spreads. Communicability between humans is nearly
>>nonexistent.
>
>If this is true, we've caught the media in yet another lie. The media likes
>to paint the picture that anthrax can be released in an airport and spread
>to all corners of the country in a matter of hours.
>
>Typical of the media. Shame on me for accessing anything they've shoved down
>my throat. :)

Even if I hadn't read "The Hot Zone," "The Coming Plague," "The Cobra
Event," and various other CBW books and articles, and even if I hadn't
visited the CDC and other Web sites, I would have known from news reports
that the trick to using anthrax as a weapon is to properly disperse the
spores.

Human to human contact is a poor way to disperse these spores. Eating the
flesh of anthrax-infected humans _may_ spread the spores, but data are too
sparse to verify this.

--Tim May

We would go to their homes, and we'd kill their wives and
their children. We would kill their families
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Frantz 
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 03:54:00 +0800
To: Bill Stewart 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 10:28 PM -0700 12/19/98, Bill Stewart wrote:
>At 12:43 PM 12/16/98 -0800, Tim May wrote
>>Nonsense. Many of us use our "real names" on the Internet, right here on
>>this non-business list. In fact, real names outnumber nyms by probably
>>10-1. Ditto for most of the Usenet and most mailing lists. Chat rooms may
>>be a different story...I wouldn't know about them.
>
>Similarly, IRC and CuSeeMe appear to be nym-oriented rather than
>real-sounding-name-oriented.  AOL isn't exactly the internet,
>but it tends to use screen names.  I'm not sure about ICQ, but
>I think it's also nym-oriented, and it's got 10 million or so users.

The Palace (http://www.thepalace.com) is mostly nym oriented.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz       | Macintosh: Didn't do every-| Periwinkle -- Consulting
(408)356-8506     | thing right, but did know  | 16345 Englewood Ave.
frantz@netcom.com | the century would end.     | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 00:42:33 +0800
To: Anonymous 
Message-ID: <4.0.2.19981220110855.00c4a280@mail.well.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




At 07:37 AM 12-20-98 +0100, Anonymous wrote:
>If this is true, we've caught the media in yet another lie. The media likes
>to paint the picture that anthrax can be released in an airport and spread
>to all corners of the country in a matter of hours.

Damn! You've found us out.

Time to alert The Cabal.

-Declan






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Eric Cordian 
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 01:30:28 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Anthrax Theatre
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199812201710.LAA16562@wire.insync.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Tim May  writes:
 
> This is not how anthrax spreads. Communicability between humans is
> nearly nonexistent.
 
Indeed, which was my point.
 
This type of operant conditioning of the sheeple is becoming almost
routine.
 
Witness the "Arab Oil Embargo", where there were long gas lines and
blaming of the Arab world, without one drop of oil ceasing to flow
into the United States.
 
"Drug Lab" busts, with prolonged evacuation of several square blocks
of neighborhood by men in astronaut garb are very routine now, every
time the police find a can of ether or other organic solvent in some
person's apartment.
 
Children are marched outside a school, stripped, and hosed down by
biohazard teams, because someone broke a mercury thermometer in class.
 
Now we have the latest incarnation of adjusting sheeple motivational
inperatives, Anthrax Theatre.  Genuine Anthrax not required, of
course. Yes children, see what happens because of Saddam Hussein?
There'll be a test later, to see if further attitudinal adjustment is
required.

-- 
Eric Michael Cordian 0+
O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division
"Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 02:48:35 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Anthrax [DoD]
Message-ID: <199812201824.MAA00621@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> X-within-URL: http://www.defenselink.mil/other_info/agent.html

>     Go to Home Page - U.S. Department of Defense U.S. DEPARTMENT OF
>    DEFENSE
>    Home Site Map Search   major sections are next NEWS  MULTIMEDIA
>    PUBLICATIONS  QUESTIONS?
>    
>   Information Paper
>   Anthrax as a Biological Warfare Agent
>      * Anthrax is the preferred biological warfare agent because:
>        
>      * It is highly lethal.
>        
>      * 100 million lethal doses per gram of anthrax material (100,000
>        times deadlier than the deadliest chemical warfare agent).
>      * Silent, invisible killer.
>      * Inhalational anthrax is virtually always fatal.
>        
>      * There are low barriers to production.
>        
>      * Low cost of producing the anthrax material.
>      * Not high-technology. Knowledge is widely available.
>      * Easy to produce in large quantities.
>        
>      * It is easy to weaponize.
>        
>      * It is extremely stable. It can be stored almost indefinitely as a
>        dry powder.
>      * It can be loaded, in a freeze-dried condition, in munitions or
>        disseminated as an aerosol with crude sprayers.
>        
>      * Currently, we have a limited detection capability.
>      * What is Anthrax?
>        
>      * Anthrax is a naturally occurring disease of plant eating animals
>        (goats, sheep, cattle, wine, etc.) caused by the bacterium
>        Bacillus anthracis.
>      * It is an illness which has been recognized since antiquity.
>        Anthrax was common in essentially all areas where livestock are
>        raised. Intensive livestock immunization programs have greatly
>        reduced the occurrence of the disease among both animals and
>        humans in much of the world, an most outbreaks occur in areas
>        where immunization programs have not been implemented or have
>        become compromised (primarily Africa and Asia; however, outbreaks
>        occurred during the mid- I 990's in Haiti and the former Soviet
>        Union).
>      * Anthrax spores can remain viable for several decades under
>        suitable environmental conditions; thus, absence of cases does not
>        equate to absence of risk.
>        
>      * Humans can contract anthrax in three ways:
>        
>      * Through cuts or breaks in the skin resulting from contact with an
>        infected animal (cutaneous anthrax), resulting in local and
>        possibly systemic (bloodstream) infection.
>        
>      * From breathing anthrax spores (termed "woolsorters" disease)
>        resulting in an infection of the lungs (inhalational anthrax).
>        
>      * From eating infected meat, resulting in gastrointestinal infection
>        (gastrointestinal anthrax). Gastrointestinal anthrax is generally
>        not considered a threat to U.S. forces.
>      * What are the symptoms?
>        
>      * Symptoms of anthrax begin after a 1 to 6 day incubation period
>        following exposure.
>        
>      * For contact or cutaneous anthrax, itching will occur at the site
>        of exposure followed by the formation of a lesion. Untreated
>        contact anthrax has a fatality rate of 5-20 percent, but with
>        effective antibiotic treatment, few deaths occur.
>      * Initial symptoms for inhalational anthrax are generally
>        non-specific: low grade fever, a dry hacking cough, and weakness.
>        The person may briefly improve after 2 to 4 days; however within
>        24 hours after this brief improvement, respiratory distress occurs
>        with shock and death following shortly thereafter.
>        
>      * Almost all cases of inhalational anthrax, in which treatment was
>        begun after patients have exhibited symptoms, have resulted in
>        death, regardless of post-exposure treatment.
>      * What is the medical countermeasure?
>        
>      * Prior to exposure, prevention through vaccination, using the
>        FDA-licensed vaccine.
>      * Otherwise, antibiotics such as penicillin, ciprofloxacin, and
>        doxycycline are the drugs of choice for treatment of anthrax.
>      * Treatment with antibiotics must begin prior to the onset of
>        symptoms and must include vaccination prior to discontinuing their
>        use.
>      * The use of antibiotics keep the patient alive until their body can
>        build an immunity to anthrax via vaccination. After symptoms
>        appear however, inhalational anthrax is almost always fatal,
>        regardless of treatment.
>        
>    
>      _________________________________________________________________
>    
>    
>    
>    Updated: 10 Jun 1998
>    Contact Us
>    Security and Privacy Notice
> 


    ____________________________________________________________________

          What raises the standard of living may well diminish the
          quality of life.

                                                 The Club of Rome

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Dave Del Torto 
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 01:52:17 +0800
To: ukcrypto@maillist.ox.ac.uk
Subject: mysterious PGP release-signing keys
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Please excuse the crosspost, but does anyone know *who* generated and/or
owns these keys?

 0xBB1EEF1B Verify
 0xC8501551 Verify Key for http://www.arc.unm.edu/~drosoff/*
 0xAA9AE13F Verify PGP 6.0.2 PP - RSA
 0x772B7382 VERIFY 

They seem to be used for signing/verifying PGP releases (e.g. the 602 by CKT
at Replay), but there's nothing on the keys that identifies the responsible
engineer who compiled the source, nor do some of them seem to be certified
by anyone in the WoT. Questions have been raised about the authenticity and
security of those compiles and these keys.

   dave


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP 6.0.2
Comment: Get interested in computers -- they're interested in YOU!

iQA/AwUBNn11mJBN/qMowCmvEQI4IwCfad0S9Algw7PPDsgWChimC4Cx6dcAnjtu
h2trwMi08tJMCD76W6W8DP/L
=TFuT
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 06:56:57 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: major phone company & y2k
Message-ID: <199812202219.OAA27152@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



internet company documents suggest severe problems


------- Forwarded Message
Subject:     Y2K Alert - 12/17/98 - Internal documents reveal telecomm 
truth
Sent:        12/16/98 11:50 PM
Received:    12/17/98 10:37 PM
From:        alertsend@y2knewswire.com
To:          Eddie Pons, ponski@soft-link.com

The following is a free Y2K alert + analysis from Y2KNEWSWIRE.
COM. You signed up for this. Removal / unsubscribe instructions
and e-mail contacts are at the bottom of this e-mail. *Do not*
reply by hitting 'reply' in your e-mail program. To reach us, you
must use one of the e-mail addresses given below. 
____________________________________________________________


SECRET DOCUMENTS REVEAL Y2K TELECOMM TRUTH: A MAJOR
LONG-DISTANCE COMPANY KNOWS THEY WON'T MAKE IT
(But they won't admit it publicly...)

Y2KNEWSWIRE recently received a collection of internal documents
from an employee at one of the major long-distance companies. The
documents appear to be genuine. However, to avoid copyright
infringement, we cannot reprint them here.

But we *can* paraphrase the documents without violating
copyright law, and that's what we're going to do in this alert.
We feel it is our responsibility to inform the public the truth
about Y2K problems at large telecommunications companies.

We are withholding the name of the company because frankly, the
name does not matter. We think *all* the major telecommunications
firms are in the same position. The problems described by this
one are not unique. Every firm is playing the same spin game,
avoiding a public admission of Y2K-guilt while privately,
internally, they all know the situation is hopeless.

Here's what we found in one particular document:

[COMPANY] SUMMARIZES THE PROBLEM
In the first part of the document, the company simply summarizes
the Y2K problem.

[COMPANY] ADMITS ENTIRE SYSTEMS COULD BE SHUT DOWN
Mid-way through the documents, the company acknowledges that
corrupt data could cause the shutdown of entire systems. They
quote a study of network switch components conducted by Bellcore,
describing how they were completely locked up after a simulated
2000 rollover.

The company then refers to this as the, "Killer aspect" of the
system. Then, the documents describe the company's ongoing
efforts to solve the problem, pointing out that the deadline,
"absolutely cannot slip."

[COMPANY] ESTIMATES ITS EXPOSURE
The company then says it has between 80 and 100 million lines of
code that might be affected by the Millennium Bug. It goes on to
call the bug a "virus," which is technically incorrect, but close
enough for telecommunications work, apparently.

Then the company describes another test of a Bellcore switch
that experienced a frightening shutdown due to an expiring
license date problem. The switch shut down completely. Another
component apparently worked until April of 2000 (in simulation),
then it, too, shut down as the daylight savings time change was
attempted.

[COMPANY] ADMITS THEY CAN'T MAKE IT!
Then, the company's internal document claims that fixing the
problem is, "too large a task" to finish in time. There simply
aren't enough staff hours, according to these documents.

The company then goes on to describe a strategy of triage:
they'll accept failures in *some* systems in order to focus on
the BIG ones. And that's the big challenge, they say: identifying
the big systems and getting them remediated in time.

THAT'S IT!
The document then ends with a warning that all documentation is
for internal use only and cannot be distributed outside the
company.


WHAT DOES IT MEAN?
Publicly, this company is telling people they will complete all
Y2K remediation on time. We now have proof this is a *con job*
designed to deceive customers and investors. And we suspect this
is the situation with *most* companies. Internally, when the
engineers sit around the lunch table, they all know the situation
is basically hopeless. There simply isn't enough time remaining.
But publicly, these companies vigorously defend their positions,
claiming *everything* will be finished before 2000 and using
classic denial phrases like, "We're well on our way..." and, "...
the vast majority of our critical systems will be done."

This is exactly why 2000 is going to be the biggest shocker
we've seen in a generation. It's the moment at which all Y2K lies
and deceptions are revealed. The spin melts away to reality.

IT'S BEEN A WHILE
Americans haven't seen this for a long, long time. Deceptions
are the norm these days, and "truth" and "reality" seem to be
relative -- especially in politics. The people in power have
actually come to believe that words equal reality. If they say it,
it must be true.

Y2K is the one event that cannot be persuaded. It does not
listen to spin and hype. It doesn't have a "mind" to be subjected
to mind games. It will simply happen -- precisely on schedule.

Remember, bureaucrats are not used to operating under these
circumstances. Take the stock market, for instance. Because the
stock market is essentially a vehicle of faith, when Clinton says
the stock market is good, it *is* good because people believe him.
The words have a direct causal effect. Y2KNEWSWIRE thinks
politicians have forgotten that Y2K doesn't work that way. If all
spinsters on the planet gathered together and gave us their best
hype, it would still have zero effect on fixing the Millennium
Bug.

This is the point they don't understand. Do you wonder why John
Koskinen continues telling people the federal government will
have absolutely no Year 2000 problems? He's in spin mode, not
reality mode. And he seems to believe his spin will somehow solve
the problem.

That's why 2000 will be a reality-check for at least half the
population. Here's a completely objective issue that cannot be
swayed by politics or persuasion. It's a pre-programmed event
designed into the system. It can't be bargained with or reasoned
with. And it most certainly won't listen to spin.
 

SOCIAL SECURITY LIKELY TO MAKE IT
This is virtually the *only* Y2K-compliance claim we believe.
Social Security is going to make the deadline, no kidding.

Why is that?

They've spent *a decade* (employing over 700 programmers) to fix
the bug. And they'll be done in June of 1999. Aside from the
programmers, over 2800 people worked on the problem.

This is exactly why the claims from other agencies that started
much later -- like the FAA -- are simply lacking all credibility.
Do the math here: 700 programmers x 10 years = 1,750,000
person-days of work. That's fourteen million hours of work, and
that doesn't even count the 2800 *non-programmers.*

So Social Security has spent 14 million hours correcting this
problem, according to their own statement. How many hours has the
FAA spent?

Frankly, we don't know. But to equal 14 million hours in just
two years (because they really weren't seriously working on it
until early 1998), they would need to employ 3,500 programmers
working full time!

WHY WASN'T SOCIAL SECURITY FINISHED IN 1991?
If these projects could really be completed in two years, why
wasn't Social Security done in 1991? Why did it take TEN years to
complete the job? If John Koskinen is to be believed, *all*
federal projects, no matter how late they started, will be done
in plenty of time. And that means two years is quite enough for
most agencies. Why did Social Security take ten, then?

You already know the answer.

Note, however, that without telecommunications or banking,
Social Security's compliance doesn't matter.

Read the details at:
http://www.amcity.com/atlanta/stories/1998/12/14/focus5.html


SURVEY REVEALS INSIDER PESSIMISM
According to this San Diego Daily Transcript story (link below),
the Aberdeen Group conducted a survey at November's COMDEX
computer show. Here are some of the more interesting survey
results:

* Less than half are confident their organization's "mission
critical" desktop computer applications will work in 2000
* 20% said their organizations haven't even finished the Y2K
assessment stage
* 53% said they were "unsure" whether their compliant systems
could be effectively shielded from corruption by non-compliant
systems

Read more details at:
http://www.sddt.com/files/library/98/12/07/tca.html


U.N. TO DEPLOY Y2K SWAT TEAMS
These are basically "crisis intervention teams" that would visit
countries with the worst problems and try to solve them. Question:
if international transportation is down, how will the SWAT teams
get around? Read the details in this CNN report:
http://cnn.com/TECH/computing/9812/12/y2k.un/


NEW ZEALAND COMPLIANCE PLANS NEAR COLLAPSE
As this "Radio NZ" report reveals, plans to make public sector
groups Y2K compliant are on the point of collapse. Read the
details at:
http://www.year2000.co.nz/y2krnz01.htm


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ask me if we
were invaded or something because so many people had packed the
store for the can goods sale. At Waldbaums's in Ronkonkoma, when
they put 20lb bags of
rice on sale (about once a month) they FLY out the door. I saw
one lady buying
three."
________________

"Just a few weeks ago, diesel generators were readily available
in the southern AZ area. Now there are none to be found. We are
looking for one (obviously we postponed too long) and my husband
remembered a large lumber/building supply store in a smaller AZ
town that has always had a large supply of all kinds of
generators (they service many contractors). He drove up there
today and found they had ONE generator, a small 500 watt gas-type,
on the shelf."


- - Webmaster


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- -> Send "subscribe   snetnews " to majordomo@world.std.com
- ->  Posted by: Lynford Theobald 


------- End of Forwarded Message




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 07:09:02 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: SNET: NYC's top cop to outline DNA plan:
Message-ID: <199812202230.OAA28220@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: "Mark A. Smith" 
Subject: SNET: NYC's top cop to outline DNA plan:
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 18:25:12 -0500
To: Maureen , SNET , L & J , David Rydel 


->  SNETNEWS  Mailing List

This From: Electric Times Union (Albany, NY), December 14, 1998
http://www.timesunion.com

NYC's top cop to outline DNA plan:
Proposal aims to use sampling as a strategy against repeat offenders
http://www.timesunion.com/news/story.asp?storyKey=2960&newsdate=12/14/98

By
RICHARD PYLE
Associated Press

NEW YORK -- Police Commissioner Howard Safir is going public with his
proposal for New York City police to take a DNA sampling along with the
fingerprints of everyone arrested -- a proposal already drawing fire
from
civil libertarians.

Safir planned a speech at a Bronx high school today to formally outline
his
plan as a strategy against repeat offenders -- especially burglars, auto
thieves and other specialists in property crimes.

"I'm asking myself how am I going to continue to reduce crime,'' Safir
told
The New York Times in an interview. Crime in New York City has dropped
by 50
percent in the last five years. The murder rate alone has fallen 20
percent
from a year ago and is expected to finish the year at the lowest level
since
the early 1960s.

Under Safir's plan, the police would take a swabbing from inside the
suspect's cheek, a standard method of collecting DNA, and put it into a
database for future reference. DNA is the unique genetic blueprint of
each
person, said by legal and forensic experts to be as reliable as
fingerprints
and far more useful in identifying individuals responsible for certain
types
of crime.

Safir's plan would require action by the state Legislature to expand the
circumstances under which DNA samples could be taken from criminal
suspects.
At present, New York state allows testing of felons convicted of 21
types of
violent crime, including murder, rape and manslaughter.

All other states have some form of database of DNA taken from felons,
and
last October, the FBI set up a long-discussed national DNA database
beginning with 250,000 names, linked to state-maintained databases. Only
Louisiana tests every person arrested for DNA, as Safir suggests for New
York City.

The genetic profile technology became widely known during the O.J.
Simpson
trial and has been used increasingly in law enforcement, both to
identify
criminals and to exonerate individuals falsely accused or convicted.

Norman Siegel, director of the New York Civil Liberties Union, has
objected
to the proposal, contending that arrest is not sufficient grounds for
authorities to collect personal genetic information, and would violate
the
Forth Amendment safeguard against unreasonable search and seizure.

Involuntary testing for DNA has been challenged legally by several
members
of the armed forces and a group of women on California's death row.

Copyright 1998, Capital Newspapers Division of The Hearst Corporation,
Albany, N.Y.

--------------------------------NOTICE:------------------------------
ISPI Clips are news & opinion articles on privacy issues from
all points of view; they are clipped from local, national and
international
newspapers, journals and magazines, etc. Inclusion as an ISPI Clip
does not necessarily reflect an endorsement of the content or opinion
by ISPI. In compliance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material
is
distributed free without profit or payment for non-profit research
and educational purposes only.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

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(Canada). ISPI operates on a not-for-profit basis, accepts no
government funding and takes a global perspective.

ISPI's mandate is to conduct & promote interdisciplinary research
into electronic, personal and  financial privacy with a view toward
helping ordinary people understand the degree of privacy they have
with respect to government, industry and each other.

But, none of this can be accomplished without your kind and
generous financial support. If you are concerned about the erosion
of your privacy in general, won't you please help us continue this
important work by becoming an "ISPI Supporter" or by taking out
an institute Membership?

We gratefully accept all contributions:

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For a contribution form with postal instructions please send the
following
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We maintain a strict privacy policy. Any information you divulge to ISPI
is kept in strict confidence. It will not be sold, lent or given away to
any third party.



-> Send "subscribe   snetnews " to majordomo@world.std.com
->  Posted by: "Mark A. Smith" 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 07:08:05 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: SNET: [Fwd: [FP] "Anti-government groups" fighting "anti-money laundering" regulation]
Message-ID: <199812202230.OAA28231@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: Lynford Theobald 
Subject: SNET: [Fwd: [FP] "Anti-government groups" fighting "anti-money laundering" regulation]
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 08:10:04 -0700
To: "snetnews@world.std.com" 


->  SNETNEWS  Mailing List

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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Keep up the good work.  Again we can make it happen if we fight together.

LT

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SCAN THIS NEWS
12/10/98

----------------------
New anti-money laundering rules spark big protest on bank privacy
5.26 p.m. ET (2226 GMT) December 10, 1998

By Marcy Gordon,=A0Associated Press

WASHINGTON (AP) =97 Federal regulators are being deluged with thousands o=
f
e-mail messages from citizens furious about new anti-money laundering rul=
es
that they view as an invasion of privacy.

As a visible symbol of the federal government with a plaque in every bank
branch, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. has become a magnet for
consumers' anger over the proposed rules.

But regulators at other federal banking agencies also reported Thursday t=
hey
had received many protesting e-mails, letters and telephone calls =97 som=
e of
them apparently instigated by anti-government groups.

The ire is directed at the proposed regulations, called "Know Your
Customer'' rules, that would require banks to verify their customers'
identities and know where their money comes from. Banks also would have t=
o
determine customers' normal pattern of transactions and report any
"suspicious'' transactions to law enforcement authorities.

The proposal, published Monday in the Federal Register, is designed to
combat money laundering techniques used by drug traffickers and other
criminals to hide illegal profits. Laundering includes the use of wire
transfers and bank drafts as well as "smurfing,'' the practice of breakin=
g
down transactions into smaller amounts that don't have to be reported und=
er
banking laws.

The torrent of e-mail, first reported in The Wall Street Journal Thursday=
,
came as the 90-day public comment period opened for the proposal.

It reflects growing anxiety among consumers about banks' use of personal
financial data =97 a concern that prompted a top federal regulator to war=
n the
banking industry this spring that it needs to protect customers' privacy.

Someone from Texas wrote, "I am appalled at even the suggestion of such a=
n
intrusion into our personal lives by the federal government.''

In another message, a Florida doctor told the regulators: "Next you'll ...
be implanting (an electronic) chip in newborns at birth so they can be
scanned as they walk in any banks as an adult.''

FDIC spokesman David Barr said the agency had received a staggering 2,700
e-mails and letters opposing the proposal.

At least some of the angry messages appear to have been inspired by
anti-government groups claiming the proposed rules are part of a federal
conspiracy aimed at limiting people's constitutional rights, according to
the Journal and people close to the situation.

Regulators and banking industry officials, who worked together on the new
rules, have taken pains to reassure consumers that their privacy would be
protected under the changes.

"Because of privacy concerns, it is the ... expectation that banks would
obtain only that information that is necessary to comply with the rule, a=
nd
would limit the use of this information to that purpose,'' the Office of =
the
Comptroller of the Currency, which regulates nationally chartered banks,
said in a statement.

John Byrne, senior counsel of the American Bankers Association, said, "Jo=
e
Q. Citizen needs to recognize that there's nothing for him or her to worr=
y
about.''

comments@foxnews.com
=A9 1998, News America Digital Publishing, Inc. d/b/a Fox News Online.

-----Original Message-----
From: W.G.E.N. [mailto:idzrus@earthlink.net]
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 1998 6:30 PM
To: idzrus@earthlink.net
Subject: NID:"KYC" Feds being deluged with Email protest


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--------------F27EB234AAECCD21A8C78784--


-> Send "subscribe   snetnews " to majordomo@world.std.com
->  Posted by: Lynford Theobald 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Antonomasia 
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 00:40:20 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: FINAL REMINDER: new mix keys at notatla
Message-ID: <199812201608.QAA09856@notatla.demon.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1



New mix keys at notatla already in use.
Old ones expire 21Dec1998.


mccain mccain@notatla.demon.co.uk 49894e1cc7629bbb54a3b5f98ba6f6d6 2.0.4b41 MC

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teatwo teatwo@notatla.demon.co.uk 4568791f20d5e004225c78e04625bca4 2.0.4b41 MC

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--
##############################################################
# Antonomasia   ant@notatla.demon.co.uk                      #
# See http://www.notatla.demon.co.uk/                        #
##############################################################




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 06:06:12 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: ShootBack this Thursday (answers to questions)
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Resent-Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 15:54:24 -0500
Subject: ShootBack this Thursday (answers to questions)
From: mann@eecg.toronto.edu
To: wear-hard@haven.org
Date: 	Sun, 20 Dec 1998 15:48:07 -0500 (EST)
Resent-From: wear-hard@haven.org
Resent-Sender: wear-hard-request@haven.org

several people have been asking questions about national shootback day
this thursday at noon.

for example a lot of people have asked why the day before christmas,
for which there is an answer, e.g. just bring a camera with you when
you go christmas shopping, and try to capture the spirit of the herds
of christmas shopping customers being watched from above...

it was felt that a faq would help immensely, so here is the
national shootback day faq:



   http://wearcam.org/nad-faq.htm

                       NATIONAL ACCOUNTABILITY DAY (NAD)

                       FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS (FAQ)


   Q. What is NAD?
   A. NAD is short for National Accountability Day. To some it is a
   protest against those who hold us accountable but refuse to or try to
   avoid being accountable to us. To others, it's a fun celebration of
   mutual accountability. To some, it's a chance to get revenge by
   shooting at people who are members of an organization who's been
   shooting at them. To others, it's a chance to help those who have
   helped them, by giving them the gift of protection. It's different
   things to different people, but the one common element is that it
   involves taking pictures of people who are involved in placing us
   under video surveillance.

   Q. How can I give the gift of protection this Christmas season?
   A. On the entrances to their shops, their signs say ``for YOUR
   protection you are being videotaped''. Isn't it heartwarming to see
   that they are offering you so much love and compassion? In return, you
   must offer them the same protection. By photographing them, you will
   show them that you love them and care for them. Put them in your
   family album, and cherish their smiles for centuries.

   Q. Who was the inventor or originator of NAD?
   A. NAD is not the vision of a single individual, but, rather, it is
   the work of an international coalition that includes artists,
   scientists, engineers, and scholars.

   Q. When is NAD?
   A. December 24, 1998

   Q. Why December 24th? Won't the stores be kind of crowded with last
   minute Christmas shoppers then?
   A. That's exactly the point of selecting December 24th. The meaning of
   Christmas has become one of consumerism. Like herds of animals we are
   shepherded into the shops only to be distrusted by the shopkeepers who
   watch over us from on high, with their omniscient surveillance
   network. When the sheep are greatest in number, the shopkeepers will
   have a more difficult time of keeping order. Moreover, it gets boring
   waiting in the long lineups. Why not pass away the time standing in
   line, by doing a little shooting. So take a camera along during your
   Christmas shopping and do a little camera shooting.

   Why was Christmas Eve chosen ? The shops will be rather busy.
   A. that's exactly why. 12:00 noon dec.24th will be the busiest day,
   and the best expression of corporate culture, and the best time to
   shoot. It's a human element.. crowds of people herded like cattle,
   overseen by the surveillance. Also the lineups will be long, so it was
   felt that folks could entertain themselves while waiting in line by
   shooting. When you get bored waiting in line, liven it up with some
   camerafire. Shoot when you're bored. Shoot when you're frustrated.
   Shoot when you're being shot!!!

   Q. Is NAD the same as ShootBack Day?
   A. Yes, NAD is also known to many as National ShootBack Day or
   National ShootingBack Day. (ShootBack is one word! There is no space
   between Shoot and Back.)

   Q. Isn't 12:00 noon going to happen at different times since the
   different parts of the nation are in different time zones?
   Furthermore, National Accountability Day is International. If that
   itself isn't an oxymoron, then at least it adds to the confusion since
   different coutries around the world are in much different time zones.
   A. That's exactly the point of doing it at noon. As high noon sweeps
   past various time zones, the shot heard around the world will be that
   of clicking cameras. This shot will travel around the world, and the
   shot heard around the world will be the shot seen around the world,
   later on when the contest submissions come in. The shot seen around
   the world will be seen in the nationless realm of cyberspace, hence
   the term ``National'' is partly in jest, for it is certainly not
   limited to any nation in particular.

   Q. How do I enter the contest?
   A. Send your pictures to

International Photo Contest,
284 Bloor Street West, Suite 701,
Toronto, Ontario, Canada,
M5S 3B8

   All submissions become property of NAD and will not be returned.
   Winning entries along with a large number of the submissions will be
   posted to the online gallery.

   Q. What format should the pictures be in?
   A. Any developed format (print, film positive, film negative, etc.),
   or any file format that can be read using GNU software under Gnu
   Public License on a computer running the Linux operating system.
   Alternatively, submissions may be placed on an FTP or HTTP server and
   the address or URL may be submitted. Any submissions that require
   commercial software or commercial operating systems to read will be
   discarded without review. Acceptable media include slides, silver
   halide prints, or other standard forms of photographic prints up to
   8.5 by 11 inches, computer printouts, film negatives, plates (glass
   plate negatives up to 8 by 10 inches), film negative strips, film
   positive strips, diffractive prints, 3.5 inch floppy disks, ISO 9660
   CD ROMs, IDE devices, or SCSI devices. Photographic media must have
   been developed (e.g. no undeveloped films or forms that require
   chemical treatment or processing by NAD staff will be accepted). If
   submissions are made by URL, the image format must be universally
   readable from any WWW browser.

   Q. I have heard that NAD is a protest? Is this true? Will there be a
   march?
   A. If you prefer to think of NAD as a protest, it can certainly be
   explained that way. Rather than protesting by carrying signs, or by
   marching, citizens will protest by going on shooting sprees. Armed
   with their own photographic or videographic cameras and recording
   devices, ordinary citizens will dish out some accountability by taking
   pictures of people who are representatives of organizations who are
   taking pictures of them.

   Q. If NAD isn't a protest, than what is it?
   A. Another equally valid interpretation is that NAD is an agreement
   with the status quo rather than a protest against it. In this
   interpretation cameras are good, so let's have more of them. Pictures
   are good, so let's all take pictures. If a department store is such a
   dangerous place that cameras are needed, then so be it. What's good
   for the goose is good for the gangster. Everyone shoots everyone and
   we're all happy. ``Only criminals are afraid of cameras'', so let's
   give representatives of the Surveillance Superhighway a chance to
   define themselves by seeing if they're afraid of cameras. When we ask
   why we are under video surveillance, we are told by the Bigs that
   ``only criminals are afraid of cameras'', or we are asked ``why are
   you so paranoid''. Now is the time to allow the Bigs to define
   themselves.

   Q. How can I participate?
   A. All you need to do is bring a camera --- any camera --- to a place
   where video surveillance is used.

   Q. How will I know who I should shoot?
   A. Taking pictures of the surveillance cameras will cause models to
   appear very quickly for you to photograph. When you point your camera
   at their cameras, the officials watching their television monitors
   will very quickly dispatch the models for you to shoot. This is a
   universal phenomenon that happens in nearly any large organization
   where video surveillance is used. Models often carry two--way radios
   and wear navy blue uniforms with special badges. Most will be eager to
   pose close to your camera, especially the hand models. They will reach
   out and place their hands over your camera lens so you can get a
   closup hand shot.

   Q. What is the rationale behind NAD?
   A. We are all accountable for our actions. The Bigs keep us under
   surveillance, whether we're just walking down the street, shopping, or
   sometimes even when we're changing clothes in their fitting rooms
   (Phil Patton, Jan. '95, WiReD). That's why Thursday, December 24th is
   National Accountability Day. This is the day to arm yourself with a
   camera, or other photographic or videographic instrumentation, and
   enter various department stores, and other establishments that match
   the classic definition of totalitarian (e.g. establishments that wish
   to know everything about everyone yet reveal nothing about
   themselves).

   Q. What are some examples of totalitarian establishments?
   A. Examples of totalitarian establishments are those in which we are
   placed under extensive video surveillance, yet we are prohibited from
   taking pictures ourselves. The goal of National Accountability Day is
   to challenge this one-sided aspect of Totalitarian Surveillance.

   Q. What subject matter, other than pictures of the surveillance
   cameras and representatives of the SS should I shoot?
   A. Participants will also photograph or make videos of any illegal
   activity they happen to encounter in these totalitarian
   establishments. Evidence of illegal activity includes fire exits
   chained shut, and other forms of entrapment, forcible confinement
   doors, and the like, which are potential fire hazards.

   Q. Should I shoot alone, or be part of a firing squad.
   A. Going salvo is better than going solo. It is preferable that groups
   of citizens participate in unison, to prevent, or at least document
   illegal theft or vandalism of photographic equipment by the Bigs.

   Q. Is there a deeper philisophical underpinning to NAD, or is it just
   a bunch of angry people going postal?
   A. The camera is like Hamlet's Mirror, allowing the Bigs to define
   themselves within a Reflectionist context. Reflectionism holds up a
   mirror to society, and constructs this mirror in a symmetrical way, so
   that it is defined on the same terms as that which it calls into
   question.

   Q. Is there any slogan or aphorism I might use to publicize NAD?
   A.
   Shoot Authority First
   Question Authority Later.
   (Shoot first, ask questions later)

   Q. Is NAD a photo conntest?
   A. There is a photo contest associated with NAD. For entry
   instructions, see http://wearcam.org/nad-entry.htm

--
Subcription/unsubscription/info requests: send e-mail with subject of
"subscribe", "unsubscribe", or "info" to wear-hard-request@haven.org
Wear-Hard Mailing List Archive (searchable): http://wearables.ml.org

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Frederick Burroughs 
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 07:45:50 +0800
To: Cypherpunks 
Subject: Biological warfare by proxy
Message-ID: <367D83DB.CEFCFFFE@shentel.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



The destruction of the al-Shifa pharmaceutical factory in Khartoum,
Sudan, has left that country with little reserve of a medicine to fight
malaria. The factory, which was thought to manufacture chemical warfare
agents, was destroyed by US cruise missiles. The factory produced half
of Sudan's medicines, leaving no supplies of chloroquine, the standard
treatment for malaria. By destroying the means to make medicine to treat
malaria, endemic to Sudan, the US has essentially engaged in biological
warfare by proxy.

A request by aid workers for more aid from the British Government to
help supply medicine to Sudan has been rejected. Story at:
http://reports.guardian.co.uk/articles/1998/12/20/p-39360.html




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Lucky Green" 
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 11:18:36 +0800
To: 
Subject: New PGP key for Lucky Green
Message-ID: <000301be2c8d$06c77b60$3501a8c0@lucky.zks.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary..3999.1071713822.multipart/mixed"

--Boundary..3999.1071713822.multipart/mixed
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Folks,
I am about to revoke my old DSS key ID 0xB663B0FD for administrative
reasons. My new DSS key is attached. The new DSS key is signed with
both my old DSS key and my ancient RSA key.

If you signed my keys in the past, please sign the new one. Please
discontinue use of my old DSS key.

Thanks,
- --Lucky Green 

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP 6.0.2

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-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Shostack 
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 11:18:44 +0800
To: John Young 
Message-ID: <19981220215426.A969@weathership.homeport.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Interestingly, the export control liason is not on the chart.  Perhaps 
this is a result of Whit pointing out in his book* that it was G2033,
an intelligence group.  One of its roles was to collect information to 
help other groups understand the technology they were looking at.

*Privacy on the Line, with Susan Landau, 1998.  If you haven't read
it, do.  I found it quite worthwhile and enjoyable.  Most cypherpunks
will already be familiar with most of whats there, but the footnotes
and asides are wonderful, and its a good compendium and overview.


Adam


On Fri, Dec 18, 1998 at 10:47:05AM -0500, John Young wrote:
| Thanks to Defense Information and Electronics Report
| we offer NSA's organizational chart, which was obtained
| by DI&ER under the FOIA:
| 
|    http://jya.com/nsa-chart.htm

-- 
"It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once."
					               -Hume





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Zooko 
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 15:14:41 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: repost(?): Why i am not truly pseudonymous yet (was: Re: keyword scanning and countering writing style analysis)
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Cypherpunks:


I tried to send this message to the cypherpunks in April 1998. 
I suspect that this, and many other messages that i sent, never
reached the cypherpunks list.


If any of you remember reading this, or have a copy of it in 
your archives, please let me know.


Regards,

Zooko


------- Forwarded Message

Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 07:06:44 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Zooko Journeyman 
To: zooko@xs4all.nl
Newsgroups: list.cypherpunks
Subject: Why i am not truly pseudonymous yet (was: Re: keyword scanning and countering writing style analysis)
References: <199803252037.UAA06168@server.eternity.org>

Adam:


I think that the state of the art on this is probably close to
the boundaries of the science of machine learning.


I recently saw a presentation by a researcher from Bell Labs.
His machine learning system, which is being patented, had 
success rates better than competing systems (including better 
than a hand-scripted system!) at identifying into which 
categories a phone call or letter to AT&T fell:  "Billing", 
"Subscription", "Complaint", "Delay", "Installation", etc.


Presumably the NSA has similar systems with all of our favorite
keywords.  (Toto: insert funny jokes here.)


Anyway, if _i_ were forced to bet on it, i would say that such 
systems are not yet good enough to reduce the cost of matching
nyms to "insignificant", but that such systems probably _will_
be that good before too long (and our old articles will still
be useful as data then...).


Now the question about counter-measures, i don't know.  (There
is a trade-off between safety and expressiveness here.  We 
could all buy a copy of AltaVista's translator software and
language databases, and then run our missives through a couple 
of pidgin foreign languages before posting them.  [Toto: insert
funny joke about JYA here.])






I think this issue is growing in importance.  I currently use a
very weak nym, which anyone with a little skill should be able
to crack [Toto: bonus points if you _privately_ send e-mail to
one of my eunymous accounts].  I'm starting to think that this
is the worst of both worlds, as potentially malicious sorts are
not significantly slowed down, while potentially beneficient
people are kept a bit more distant from me and are thus less 
likely to be of use to me.  (e.g., people who know me as Zooko
wouldn't notice if "Anna Rosenbaum" (my real name) were to
disappear one night, and vice versa.)


By the way, the reason for my failure should be instructive:  
my nym is so crackable not because of any technical detail 
having to do with remailers or encryption-- it is that 
i foolishly posted articles containing both nyms in the distant 
past, and those articles are now a permanent part of the The 
Net instead of decaying and disappearing like articles from 
even earlier years did.


Another issue for me is the onerous cost of starting a fresh 
nym.  The benefits (true pseudonymity) are uncertain (the bad 
guys' techniques might crack my best effort using current 
technology (especially because of textual analysis as per the
original topic of this message)), and the costs are that i lose
the advantages of concentration of reputation into a single 
nym.


(I've already observed this, a little, with my current set of
weak nyms.  Adding a strong one would only exaccerbate my 
woes.)


A final problem i have with true pseudonymity is that i _like_
meeting people in Real Life, and not only to fight or fuck 
them.




Okay, this has been long and rambling, but i hope useful to 
some of you.  One more point before i go:


There are two ideas of pseudonymity that i have considered.  In
one, you are truly the only person who knows that the nym maps
to your body.  This has obvious advantages, and obvious 
disadvantages.  In the other (which is basically what "Zooko" 
is and was intended to be), there is a large, ill-defined group
of people who also know of the mapping.  This has its 
advantages too-- social advantages (which are very important!),
but the disadvantage is that it is trivially cracked by a mole.



[In fact, i think i recall that about the time "Zooko" appeared
on the scene one "Adam Back" sent me e-mail saying, "Hey--  you
write a lot like Anna Rosenbaum did...  Are you her?".]



[So if anyone wants to do me a favor, look about in your 
archives and dissociate "Zooko" with "Anna".  Thanks!  It might
actually do me some good in the long run, although not, of 
course, against the likes of the NSA.  Perhaps against others.]


Regards,

Zooko

P.S.  For an Nth reason that i don't have a strong pseudonym, 
i never bothered to learn how to use a remailer front-end.  Now
with Xemacs 20 and Mozilla out, i could probably handle it...

P.P.S.  Today i found the 3rd person, including myself, who 
has used the name "Zooko" on the net.

        .----,     |                     mailto:zooko@xs4all.nl
          . /      |    http://www.xs4all.nl/~zooko/public.html
         . /       |   "Any technology which is distinguishable 
        +____.     |    from magic is insufficiently advanced."

------- End of Forwarded Message




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 08:28:17 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199812210000.BAA07957@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Prepping for Y2K armageddon so far has caused our taskforce 
little more trouble than post-its on each device showing an 
ode to Mercury for getting the lead out in time to lope upstairs 
shedding clothes for the bacchanale planned to celebrate the 
end of computer oversight of our infrapasture.

We urge ourselves: good riddance to everything overmanaged 
by the matrixed interdependent skeins of networks and switches 
and redundancies and dev nulls and robot backups, time to get 
back in touch with fecund reality, slurp gutters, chew roots, 
sniff musks, chuck pixels.

One mole aint into that, though, and uplinks us it's going
to be evil incarnate under sky, without electromechanical life 
and love and think support systems, untethered, fending for 
ourselves, trying to walk and talk, itching filth, urging
senses to pinpoint food and drink, getting no feedback, 
becoming terrified, running across a roadkilled computer, 
gathering around, toggling inputs, rooting peripherals, suckling 
outputs, so the saint preaches, you'll be gasping: why have 
you abandoned us, oh motherboard, boot up.

Hooting, itching to get offline topside we backslash: Rev gospel, 
dirtworm.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 09:06:01 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: FW: PRIVACY Forum Digest V07 #21(excerpt)
Message-ID: <199812210032.BAA10005@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Snip from the latest Privacy Forum Digest on commercial filtering software
for enterprises, encryption and "criminal skills".

cheers,
C.G.

--
A Navigo Farmer

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	privacy@vortex.com [SMTP:privacy@vortex.com]
> Sent:	Sunday, December 20, 1998 4:58 PM
> To:	PRIVACY-Forum-List@vortex.com
> Subject:	PRIVACY Forum Digest V07 #21
> 
> PRIVACY Forum Digest      Sunday, 20 December 1998      Volume 07 : Issue
> 21
> 
[...]
>  
> Date:    Wed, 16 Dec 98 12:25 PST
> From:    lauren@vortex.com (Lauren Weinstein; PRIVACY Forum Moderator)
> Subject: Privacy Discussions Classified as a "Criminal Skill"
> 
> Greetings.  Is discussing privacy in the PRIVACY Forum a criminal skill?
> According to one widely used commercial web filtering tool, the answer was
> yes!  The controversy over software to block access to particular sites,
> based on perceived content, has been continuing to rage.  Attempts to
> mandate the use of such software in environments such as libraries and
> schools have raised a variety of serious concerns.  In addition to fairly
> straightforward freedom of speech issues, another factor revolves around
> how accurate (or inaccurate) these filtering systems really are.  
> 
> I've now seen firsthand that errors by a filtering system can indeed be
> quite
> serious, an event that seems to certainly validate some of these concerns.
> But there is something of a silver lining to the story, as we'll see
> later.
> 
> I recently was contacted by someone at a large corporation, who was trying
> to reach the PRIVACY Forum web site, which is constantly being referenced
> by
> individuals and commercial, educational, government, and other sites
> around
> the world.  This person was upset since whenever they attempted to reach
> the http://www.vortex.com site and domain that hosts the PRIVACY Forum,
> their web software blocked them, informing them that the block was in
> place
> due to the site being categorized as containing "criminal skills."  
> 
> As the webmaster for the vortex.com domain, this certainly came as news to
> me.  The message they received didn't give additional information--they
> didn't even know exactly where it came from.  It was apparent though, that
> the entire organization was probably blocked from reaching the PRIVACY
> Forum, since the filtering software in question was affecting a main
> firewall system.
> 
> After a number of phone calls and discussions with the system
> administrator
> for that organization, the details began to emerge.  The company was
> running
> a filtering software package from Secure Computing Corporation of San
> Jose,
> California.  This package received weekly updates of blocked sites in a
> wide
> variety of categories, one of which was "criminal skills."  
> 
> The administrator had no idea what rationale was used for these decisions,
> they just pulled in the list each week and applied it.  He immediately
> placed
> vortex.com on a local exception list so that it would no longer be blocked
> to
> their users.
> 
> I then turned my attention to Secure Computing.  After a number of calls,
> I
> found myself speaking with Ken Montgomery, director of corporate
> communications for that firm.  He confirmed the information I had already
> received.  The filtering product in question ("SmartFilter") was
> apparently
> not being marketed to individuals, rather, it was sold to institutions,
> corporations, etc. to enforce filtering policies across entire entities.
> The product covers a wide range of information categories that users of
> the
> software can choose to block.  He said that the majority of blocked sites
> were in categories involving pornography, where there was (in his opinion)
> no question of their not belonging there.  
> 
> The "criminal skills" category reportedly was broadly defined to cover
> information that might be "of use" to criminals (e.g. how to build bombs).
> He had no explanation as to why my domain had been placed in that list,
> since by no stretch could any materials that are or have ever been
> there fall into such a categorization.  He did discover that the
> classification of my domain had occurred over a year ago (meaning
> other sites could have been receiving similar blocking messages for
> that period of time when trying to access the PRIVACY Forum) and
> that the parties who had made the original classification were no longer
> with their firm--so there was no way to ask them for their rationale.
> (All of their classifications are apparently made by people, not
> by an automated system.)
> 
> However, it seems likely that the mere mentioning of encryption may have
> been enough to trigger the classification.  The administrator at the
> organization that had originally contacted me about the blocked access,
> told
> me that the main reason they included the "criminal skills" category in
> their site blocking list was to try prevent their users from downloading
> "unapproved" encryption software.  This was a type of information that he
> believed to be included under the Secure Computing "criminal skills"
> category (the "logic" being, obviously, that since criminals can use
> encryption to further their efforts, encryption is a criminal skill).  He
> also admitted that he knew that their users could still easily obtain
> whatever encryption software they wanted anyway, but he had to enforce the
> company policy to include that category in their blocking list.
> 
> As PRIVACY Forum readers may know, no encryption software is or ever has
> been distributed from here.  The topic of encryption issues does certainly
> come up from time to time, as would be expected.  For the mere *mention*
> of
> encryption in a discussion forum to trigger such a negative categorization
> would seem to suggest the fallacy of blindly trusting such classification
> efforts.
> 
> Mr. Montgomery of Secure Computing initially suggested that it was up to
> their customers to decide which categories they wanted to use in their own
> blocking lists--he also stated that as a company they were opposed to
> mandatory filtering regulations.  I suggested that such determinations by
> their customers were meaningless if the quality of the entries in those
> categories could not be trusted and if errors of this severity could so
> easily be made.  I felt that this was particularly true of a category with
> an obviously derogatory nature such as "criminal skills"--the
> ramifications
> of being incorrectly placed into such a category, and then to not even
> *know* about it for an extended period of time, could be extreme and very
> serious.
> 
> To their credit, my argument apparently triggered a serious discussion
> within Secure Computing about these issues.  I had numerous subsequent
> e-mail and some additional phone contacts with Mr. Montgomery and others
> in their firm concerning these matters.  First off, they apologized
> for the miscategorization of vortex.com, and removed it from the
> "criminal skills" category (it was apparently never listed in any
> other of their categories).  
> 
> Secondly, they have agreed with my concerns about the dangers of such
> miscategorizations occurring without any mechanism being present for sites
> to learn of such problems or having a way to deal with them.  So, they
> will
> shortly be announcing a web-based method for sites to interrogate the
> Secure
> Computing database to determine which categories (if any) they've been
> listed under, and will provide a means for sites to complain if they feel
> that they have been misclassified.  They've also suggested that their hope
> is to provide a rapid turnaround on consideration of such complaints.
> 
> While by no means perfect, this is a step forward.  I would prefer a more
> active notification system, where sites would be notified directly when
> categorizations are made.  This would avoid their having to 
> check to see whether or not they've been listed, and needing to keep
> checking back to watch for any changes or new categorizations.  If more
> filtering software companies adopt the Secure Computing approach, there
> would be a lot of checking for sites to do if they wanted to stay on
> top of these matters.  Secure Computing feels that such notifications are
> not practical at this time.  However, their move to provide some
> accountability to their filtering classifications is certainly preferable
> to
> the filtering systems which continue to provide no such facilities and
> operate in a completely closed environment.
> 
> So, we make a little progress.  The PRIVACY Forum and vortex.com are no
> longer miscategorized and have been removed from all Secure Computing
> block
> lists.  Secure Computing was polite and responsive in their
> communications with me, and will establish the system discussed above in
> reaction to my concerns.  Web filtering of course remains a highly
> controversial topic with many serious negative aspects, but we see that
> when
> it comes to dealing with the complex issues involved, it would be a
> mistake
> to assume that all such filters all created equal.
> 
> --Lauren--
> Lauren Weinstein
> Moderator, PRIVACY Forum
> http://www.vortex.com
> 
[...]
>  




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 13:59:43 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: qXt8in0ocFjj3wHmDXe6PVJil1/NP0rd
Message-ID: <199812210539.GAA32042@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: DOOM Anonymous Untraceable User 
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 14:04:45 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: SURVEY SHOWS COUNTIES ARE BEHIND ON Y2K FIX
Message-ID: <199812210540.GAA29458@rogue.seclab.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



A survey by the National Association of Counties shows that one-third of
the nation's counties aren't even aware of the Y2K problem -- and about 75% of
the 119 counties with populations below 10,000 haven't developed a plan for
updating their computer systems to deal with the millennial data change.
Total Y2K spending among counties is expected to reach $1.7 billion,
according to the association.  (Information Week 14 Dec 98)

#!/usr/local/bin/perl -0777-- -export-a-crypto-system-sig -RC4-3-lines-PERL
@k=unpack('C*',pack('H*',shift));for(@t=@s=0..255){$y=($k[$_%@k]+$s[$x=$_
]+$y)%256;&S}$x=$y=0;for(unpack('C*',<>)){$x++;$y=($s[$x%=256]+$y)%256;
&S;print pack(C,$_^=$s[($s[$x]+$s[$y])%256])}sub S{@s[$x,$y]=@s[$y,$x]}




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 23:46:41 +0800
To: "Lucky Green" 
Subject: Re: New PGP key for Lucky Green
In-Reply-To: <000301be2c8d$06c77b60$3501a8c0@lucky.zks.net>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 9:53 PM -0500 on 12/20/98, Lucky Green wrote:


> Please
> discontinue use of my old DSS key.

Why didn't you just send out a revocation along with your key, then?

Cheers,
RAH
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "D.STARR" 
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 23:50:09 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <19981221145103.28186.qmail@www0t.netaddress.usa.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



sounds to me like they want to create chaos where none exists or is likely to
exist!

"Defence officials called for "aggressive and preventive actions" now to
reduce the Year 2000 risk to a more manageable level.  The military will have
about 32,000 of its personnel dedicated to Operation Abacus, with thousands
more available if needed."

  darkstarr
    
  cypherpunks-errors@toad.com wrote:
  > LOCAL 

  >  Saturday 12 December 1998 

  > 

  > 'Martial law' rushed for Y2K chaos Report warns government to be ready to 

  > invoke federal Emergencies Act

  > 

  >  By David Pugliese           The Ottawa Citizen

  


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Hash: SHA1

"The human animal needs a freedom seldom mentioned; 
freedom from intrusion. He needs a little privacy."
                                 --Phyllis McGinley
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____________________________________________________________________
Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 17:29:43 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: I76wQeB9zDPUp2NfsZqfInyfQ1A4ojlu
Message-ID: <199812210854.JAA11012@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



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Version: PGPfreeware 5.0i for non-commercial use
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Richard.Bragg@ssa.co.uk
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 19:14:01 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Forwarded mail....
Message-ID: <802566E1.0039858A.00@seunt002e.ssa.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Comrades, comrades, please.

What makes "The Revolution" so powerful is the way it transends such petty
consideration as
"National Boundaries".

When our day comes there will be no treachery as there will be no "THEM" to
be treasonous to.  We
will be in total control.  There will be complete freedom of speech as long
as it doesn't cover topics
not suitable for public discorse (these will be desided as we need to).

Anyone can use encryption, as strong as they like.  Of course the only
computers will be centrally controlled and plain text backups will be
maintained for your peace of mind.  We will do all that tedious backing up
for you.

Anyone can own and carry any firearm.  Ammunition will naturally be
rationed.  We don't want the wealthy, bourgious  to
gain an advantage over the brothers and sisters in the masses.

 Be patient comrades, our day will come.





Missouri FreeNet Administration  on 19/12/98 05:41:51

To:   cypherpunks@toad.com
cc:    (bcc: Richard Bragg/UK/SSA_EUROPE)
Subject:  Forwarded mail....




---------- Forwarded message ----------
::Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 05:21:34 +0100
::From: Anonymous 
::To: sysadmin@mfn.org

::You should be expecting a visit from the boys in the suits very soon.
::Have fun.  I hope your cellmate is a big guy they call "The Bull."

::Traitorous scum.
---------- Message Ends ----------

What I *really* love about these "patriots" is how they are not _afraid_
to stand by their words!  Awwww, c'mon!  You're on the "Side Of
Right(tm)", so why hide?  You afraid I'm gonna piss on your white picket
fence?

Yours,
J.A. Terranson
sysadmin@mfn.org

--
If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they
should give serious consideration towards setting a better example:
Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of
unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in
the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and
elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire
populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate...
This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States
as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers,
associates, or others.  Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of
those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the
first place...
--------------------------------------------------------------------










From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 19:19:29 +0800
To: zooko@wildgoose.tandu.com
Subject: Re: repost(?): Why i am not truly pseudonymous yet (was: Re: keyword scanning and countering writing style analysis)
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199812211059.KAA07212@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Anna Rosenbaum^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H Zooko wrote:
> If any of you remember reading this, or have a copy of it in 
> your archives, please let me know.

A grep of my old cpunks traffic for 'Why i am not truly pseudonymous
yet' comes up empty, so apparenlty it did not get through.

> [In fact, i think i recall that about the time "Zooko" appeared
> on the scene one "Adam Back" sent me e-mail saying, "Hey--  you
> write a lot like Anna Rosenbaum did...  Are you her?".]

Yep, I recall doing this, except I did not say 'Anna Rosenbaum' but
rather your real first name, which I will of course not mention.  I
recall Tim doing the same (tho' using your initial, and on list),
also, perhaps to Zooko or perhaps to a anonymous post with writing
style and rant topic similarities.

Multiple personality nyms seem to provide some plausible deniability
and doubt, for example people like Monty Cantsin (who's web page
claimed Cantsin was any number of people) and Toto, TruthMonger
etc. whose messages signed by shared keys, or were unsigned.

I reckon there is some room for doubt as to which meat space personas
wrote some of the Toto missives for example.

Probably a good rule of thumb is never to sign anything and always
post via a mixmaster chain.  Some messages don't need a persistent nym
even.  Perhaps one could construct a zero knowledge proof of nym
reputation rating without identityfing the nym which might be useful
for filtering without linkability.

Adam




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "jim finder" 
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 01:53:19 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Good archive of AES algorithms?
Message-ID: <199812211722.JAA04165@law-f54.hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Is there a good archive of all the algorithms submitted for
AES?  I'd be interested especially in one that also had
info on what's been broken so far, plus implementations and
performance numbers. I can't find all this info on any one
site, but I can't believe that one doesn't exist.

Thanks!

Jim

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Albert P. Franco, II" 
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 19:21:42 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Anthrax Theatre
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981221115055.006d2b60@209.204.247.83>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>From: Eric Cordian 
> 
>Now we have the latest incarnation of adjusting sheeple motivational
>inperatives, Anthrax Theatre.  Genuine Anthrax not required, of
>course. Yes children, see what happens because of Saddam Hussein?
>There'll be a test later, to see if further attitudinal adjustment is
>required.
>

And if that doesn't work we all know that the MIB wouldn't hesitate to
unleash a real "small scale" release just to prove that the threat really
exists!

APF




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 05:02:03 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Friedman (The Younger) Sings...
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 11:06 AM -0800 12/21/98, Declan McCullagh wrote:
>I see Bob is incorrectly assuming that the folks at the Cato Institute knew
>nothing about cryptoanarchy before David's speech this fall...
>
>(The audience may be a different story, though.)
>

Interesting that David Friedman kept using language like:

"Some of my ideas...."

"I have developed this set of ideas..."


And yet this constellation of ideas, except for his discourse on digital
watermarking of intellectual property, is what I laid out beginning in
1988, and in thousands of essays here on this list. And in other fora.

--Tim May

We would go to their homes, and we'd kill their wives and
their children. We would kill their families
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Missouri FreeNet Administration 
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 03:20:14 +0800
To: Reeza! 
Subject: Re: I must admit. . .
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981221234722.009bd210@205.83.192.13>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




On Mon, 21 Dec 1998, Reeza! wrote:
:At 10:03 PM 12/17/98 +0200, Jukka E Isosaari wrote:
:>Everyone is touting how he [saddam hussein, (Reeza!)] is behind every
:nasty thing that the 
:>Iraq does, so just kill or capture and imprison him. Don't take
:>it out on all the Iraqis.
:
:Make a martyr of him, in other words?
Is it better that we make martyrs of the entire population?  We are busy
starving the country out of existence right now, and he is the Head of
State: that means he understands the Rules Of The Game (all heads of state
shall serve at the pleasure of the USG, and shall be subject to elevation
or executuion at any time, and for no reason other than some USG whim).  
Taking a more formal position, i.e., The Good Of The Many, I agree the USG
should just go ahead and execute him, rather than make a policy of
deliberately toruring an entire country.  Even the Good Of The Few
arguments go in favor of this "option".

Of course, the better option would be that we mind our own business for a
change, but we all now how well *that* would go over...

:>Now, how's that for an alternative?
:
:Perfectly acceptable to me personally. Please show how it will result in
:proving that Iraq does not, and will not in the near or forseeable future
:possess weapons of mass destruction that may be utilized against
:neighbors, foreign or domestic.

*WHY* is it any of our business whether he owns weapons of *any* kind?  WE
own them, and we USE them: Does this give other nations the right to
embargo us, and to bomb us into oblivion if we refuse to allow THEM to
tell US what to do?

Our concern for his weaponry should only be an issue *IF* he uses them, as
with *OUR* weaponry.  Yours is the classical anti-gun argument, and it's
no more effective at the international level than at the state level.


: Or how it will result in turning the
:public opinion, iraqi and/or american, touted by the biased US press in
:such a fashion that it would result in a munificent display of openness,
:agreeablility, and welcoming to the UN inspectors by the iraqi hosts.
Who in the hell is the UN to force their "inspectors" on a sovereign
State?  Again, would you allow this in your home, by the USG?  It's the
same thing.

: Or
:show how Hussein is now trustworthy, and thereby qualified by the MIB
:office of the USG to possess said weapons.
The USG has no right to "qualify" any foreign nation state for the
posession of weapons - this is a right of all persons and states.


:Reeza!
:DH Key available on request
Note that your DH Key is a "munition"...  Shouldn't you be "qualified" to
have it by the USG - strictly for the safety of the world, of course...


Yours, 
J.A. Terranson
sysadmin@mfn.org

--
If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they
should give serious consideration towards setting a better example:
Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of
unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in
the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and 
elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire
populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate...
This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States
as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers,
associates, or others.  Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of
those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the
first place...
--------------------------------------------------------------------






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 05:39:42 +0800
To: Tim May 
Subject: Re: Friedman (The Younger) Sings...
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199812212104.NAA05022@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



well I personally am very careful to credit
Timmy as the orginal originator whenever 
I lecture on cryptoanarchy, either
in person or in any "fora" hehehe. modulo whatever
BH has invented on geodesic markets or whatever.
btw I was RBLL at BH's recent rant/diatribe/harangue against
timmy (rolling in my barcolounger laughing) .. you two
truly deserve each other

>And yet this constellation of ideas, except for his discourse on digital
>watermarking of intellectual property, is what I laid out beginning in
>1988, and in thousands of essays here on this list. And in other fora.
>
>--Tim May
>
>We would go to their homes, and we'd kill their wives and
>their children. We would kill their families
>---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
>Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
>ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
>W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
>Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 05:43:02 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: SNET: A Little Humor
Message-ID: <199812212113.NAA06048@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: BStokes45@aol.com
Subject: SNET: A Little Humor
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 18:21:38 EST
To: johnsonlm@prodigy.net, dstokes@wt.net, skeptichat@lists.sonic.net, wethepeople@onelist.com, NOEL123@juno.com, SNETNEWS@world.std.com, Roxrfun2me@aol.com


->  SNETNEWS  Mailing List



Congress' Night Before Christmas

"Twas the week before Christmas and those sly little elves,
Our congressmen, labored to better themselves.
They cared not a whit what the public might think
"Let them eat cake," some said with a wink.

And putting their thumbs to the tip of their nose,
they waved as they shouted "Anything goes!"

They scoffed at the thought that we might object,
to a tax cut for the wealthy of a posh percent.
They've got prerequisites-franking, per diem, and more --
bargain-priced haircuts and gyms (three or four!)

Paid speaking engagements and meals on the cuff,
celebrity status -- (they've sure got it tough!),

Yet they claim they're in touch with the man on the street,
as John Q. Public struggles to make both ends meet.
If all workers decided what they were due,
they'd be getting those fat paychecks too!

But while we take cutbacks or raises quite small,
and one out of 20 has no job at all,
our millionaire Congress decides on the budget
land trimming Medicare and Medicaid will do it, they say.

In this season for giving, our Congress is taking.
We've had it with them and our backs are breaking.
With hard times, disasters, and layoffs on our dockets,
we bit the bullet and they fill their pockets!

Oh jobless, oh homeless, oh desperate and needy -
dare anyone say our Congress is greedy?

If in this feeling I'm not alone,
take up your pen or pick up your phone.
As dry leaves before the wild hurricane fly,
let the road of your anger mount to the sky.

Indignant, outraged, appalled and beset
let your congressman know that you won't forget!
When election times comes -- and certain it will --
you're voting him out for passing that bill.

More rapid than eagles, their elections assured
they toasted each other and laughed at the herd.
And I heard them exclaim with adjournment at hand,

"Merry Christmas to us, and the public be damned!


The Audit
===========
A man, called to testify at the IRS, asked his accountant for advice on
what to wear.  "Wear your shabbiest clothing.  Let him think you are a
pauper," the accountant replied.  

Then he asked his lawyer the same question, but got the opposite
advice.  "Do not let them intimidate you.  Wear your most elegant suit
and tie."

Confused, the man went to his Rabbi, told him of the conflicting advice,
and requested some resolution of the dilemma.  "Let me tell you a
story," replied the Rabbi.  "A woman, about to be married, asked her
mother what to wear on her wedding night.  'Wear a heavy, long, flannel
nightgown that goes right up to your neck.'  But when she asked her best
friend, she got conflicting advice.  Wear your most sexy negligee, with
a V neck right down to your navel."

The man protested: "What does all this have to do with my problem with
the IRS?"

"No matter what you wear, you are going to get screwed."

Does anyone find it strange that we can find humor in the truth?

-> Send "subscribe   snetnews " to majordomo@world.std.com
->  Posted by: BStokes45@aol.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 06:13:05 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: SNET: [Fwd: [FP] Biometric National ID Card Now A Reality]
Message-ID: <199812212113.NAA06060@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: Lynford Theobald 
Subject: SNET: [Fwd: [FP] Biometric National ID Card Now A Reality]
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 08:51:19 -0700
To: "snetnews@world.std.com" 


->  SNETNEWS  Mailing List

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------408C3A349997A1C52693F214
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Here is more on the same.

LT

--------------408C3A349997A1C52693F214
Content-Type: message/rfc822
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

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From: "ScanThisNews" 
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Subject: [FP] Biometric National ID Card Now A Reality
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 19:13:18 -0600
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======================================================================
SCAN THIS NEWS
12/13/98

[forwarded from Larry Becraft]
THE BIOMETRIC NATIONAL ID CARD IS NOW A REALITY...
By Jon Christian Ryter
Author of WHATEVER HAPPENED TO AMERICA?
and THE BAFFLED CHRISTIAN'S HANDBOOK

America was rightfully alarmed in late September when Representatives Bob
Barr (R-GA) and Ron Paul (TX) revealed the fact that somehow, unbeknown to
anyone, and for some as yet unexplained reason, the National ID Card that
Hillary Clinton, Marc Tucker and Ira Magaziner had adroitly concealed in the
failed Health Security Act of 1994 had somehow "accidentally" been passed,
in a somewhat illegal and unconstitutional fashion, and was now "the law of
the land."

Pictured (see link below) is the actual "Healthcare Passport" card currently
being used in three American cities. Displayed is the front and back of that
card. This photo was scanned from the brochure used by the National
Institute of Health to introduce the new card in a seminar in Denver earlier
this year. The word "passport" on the card had to have been a
tongue-in-cheek addition, since it is the precursor of the internal passport
that will ultimately control your ability to move freely throughout this
great land. The card is biometric. Stored on this card is the complete
medical history of the card's owner. Also stored on the card is every
conceivable piece of information about that person. Imbedded in the card is
a tracking devise.

The plan to create and implement a National ID Card, while first made
"public" in a private White House meeting on Nov. 11, 1993 and discussed in
a disavowed protocol that detailed the dialogue of that meeting, is not
uniquely a Clintonoid idea even though the National ID Card first appears
innocuously concealed in the Health Security Act as a "healthcare benefits
card" that the First Lady insisted had to be carried by every American--even
if they refused to be covered by the plan--under penalty of law.

	The same card, in the form of a national driver's license, had just been
mandated by the European Union for all of the new European States. A brief
battle waged in Europe over the national driver's license. Most Europeans
had experienced national identity cards in the past and realized quickly the
new universal European driver's license was an internal passport that would
give their new government the tool they needed to control their lives. The
media immediately labeled those who resisted the EU driver's license as
"globalphobes" who were against progress, and wanted to return Europe to the
days of the cold war. They were the extremists.

	In the United States, the Clinton's knew a National ID Card spelled
problems,
regardless what name was put on it. However, as a healthcare card that
provided each American with thousands of dollars of free medical care, they
correctly surmised that the ramblings of the right wing zealots could be
easily dismissed by the mainstream liberal media. The media did its job
well.

The Health Security Act was the best thing since sliced bread and peanut
butter. According to the media, the Health Security Act would provide
healthcare for the millions upon millions of uninsured Americans. The media
even obliged by ignoring the obviously flawed cost assessments as well.

Hillary demanded that Congress pass the Health Security Act without and
changes--reminiscent of FDR's passing the "emergency legislation" that
kicked off the New Deal without allowing members of Congress to even see the
legislation they were voting on--and unconstitutionally granting Roosevelt
almost dictatorial power over the United States. Congress wasn't buying.
They read the Health Security Act. Then, they rejected it. It was, they
declared, the most expensive social experiment in the world.

Buried in the National Archives, in the working papers of the Hillary
Clinton healthcare plan, was a game plan in the event the Health Security
Act went down in flaming defeat. The game plan?  Implement another
healthcare act that provided healthcare for children.  No one would dare
deny healthcare to children. To introduce the plan, they called on Teddy
Kennedy. Kennedy failed. Kennedy, they realized, was trusted by most
Americans even less than the Clintons.

Next they turned to Orrin Hatch, who teamed up with Kennedy and rammed the
legislation through Congress. Healthcare for kids. Of course, everyone was
in favor of it. Voting against it was a good way to lose an election. And,
once the law was codified, the bureaucracy possessed the authority to simply
expand it to include anyone and everyone.

What was not in the legislation was funding to create a biometric health
care card. The authority to do it was there, but not the money. For the
money, the Clinton administration turned to the Robert Wood Johnson
Foundation. The foundation, created by the founder of Johnson & Johnson,
obliged and funded the experimental program which was kicked off in three
western cities (noted above).

What was introduced to members of the National Institute of Health in Denver
as a card that will record the inoculation records of children, includes
everything from DNA typing to that individual's medical, psychiatric and
financial history. It was because the biometric card would also contain the
psychiatric history of the cardholder that an employee of the National
Institute of Health approached me and offered me the data that is contained
in this report.

In my initial meeting with the NIH employee, I was also told that this
person had commented to a NIH executive that it was not good for the card to
contain so much personal information that was not needed to monitor the
rates of inoculation of the children covered by the program, since it would
provide the government information that could easily be misused.

At that point the NIH executive laughed and said: "What do you think we have
do with the data we get from Medicare and Medicaid? We've been using it for
years to apprehend and deport illegal aliens and to capture those wanted by
the law."

In the case of the Health Passport, which is the precursor of the National
Driver's License that will go into affect nationwide on October 1, 2000,
however, the is one added feature--it contains a tracking chip.

At a recent National Institute of Health seminar, an NIH executive proudly
displayed an electronic map created by the NIH computer technicians that
pinpointed every Health Passport card holder in Denver, Colorado. It was a
"living map" that would track each Health Passport card holder if and when
they moved. Whether or not such a map had been created for the other two
"pilot" cities is not known.

NOTE: Before I left Washington this afternoon, I spoke for about a half hour
with Stan Johnson of the Prophecy Club, and emailed Stan a copy of the Heath
Passport Card. Stan has additional information on this subject, particularly
with respect to a new computer mainframe that the government recently
installed in Denver that ties in with the information I have been receiving
from my own source in the National Institute of Health. Apparently this is
the planned topic for the Prophecy Club's radio talk show next Monday (and
because it is, I will not reveal any of the revelations that Stan shared
with me on the phone this afternoon. I would strongly urge you to visit
Stan's website for additional information.

http://www.prophecyclub.com/

---------------------------------------------
http://www.westgov.org/hpp/hpp-web.htm

HEALTH PASSPORT

A Project of the Western Governors' Association
- Frequently Asked Questions -

Introduction to the Health Passport Project

What is the Health Passport Project?

The Health Passport Project is a three-city demonstration that uses what is
called a "smart card" to put important health-related information at the
fingertips of mothers and their children. People participating in the
demonstration are those eligible for care under public health programs. The
Health Passport Project is the largest health-care demonstration in the
United States for smart cards and will be conducted over two years in the
cities of Bismarck, North Dakota; Cheyenne, Wyoming; and Reno, Nevada. The
project will demonstrate how people can use these electronic cards to give
up-to-date information to their health-care providers, including physicians,
nurses, nutritionists and early childhood educators.


Food Retailers

Grocers who handle thousands of checks for nutrition benefits will find the
new system involves less paperwork, results in quicker check-out, and
provides more timely reimbursement. The Health Passport works like a bank
card at the check-out counter. Benefits are automatically downloaded to the
client's card at the retailer. Distribution of WIC benefits will be
demonstrated in Reno and Cheyenne.


More About the Demonstrations
Which public health programs are participating?

---
Bismarck, North Dakota

The Family Doctors, Bismarck Burleigh Nursing, WIC, Head Start,
Immunizations, Medicaid, the Optimal Pregnancy Outcome Program, and Maternal
and Child Health

Bertie Bishop
(701) 255-3397

---
Cheyenne, Wyoming

Cheyenne Children's Clinic, the University of Wyoming Family Practice
Residency Center, Laramie County Public Health Nursing, Medicaid, WIC, Head
Start, Maternal and Child Health, and Immunizations

Terry Williams
(307) 777-6008

---
Reno, Nevada

WIC, Immunizations, and Head Start
Marty Brown
(702) 883-6992
-------------------------------------------------

http://www.westgov.org/hpp/

http://www.westgov.org/wga/publicat/hppsum.htm

Health Passport

Information Technology: Toward a Health Card for the West

"Congress is considering the most sweeping changes to the delivery of social
services since the New Deal. In this environment, the Health Passport
presents an innovative tool to help ensure the continued delivery of
critical services to low income women and children--even as government
sponsored programs are consolidated or eliminated. While devolution of
authority to the states is expected to reduce duplicative federal
administrative structures, the debate in Washington has done little to
provide practical solutions. The Health Passport offers a tool to help
achieve these administrative savings empowering citizens and preserving the
integrity of services."

=======================================================================
Don't believe anything you read on the Net unless:
1) you can confirm it with another source, and/or
2) it is consistent with what you already know to be true.
=======================================================================
Reply to: 
=======================================================================
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--------------408C3A349997A1C52693F214--


-> Send "subscribe   snetnews " to majordomo@world.std.com
->  Posted by: Lynford Theobald 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 02:54:30 +0800
To: Digital Bearer Settlement List 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Wherein David Friedman teaches cryptoanarchy 101 to the folks at the Cato
Institute.

A RealAudio transcription from the Cato/Forbes ASAP conference on
cryptography held earlier this year.

Listen to this. It's important. Even if you know what he's gonna say
already, it's a very good thing to have heard so you can point newbies to
it.

Cheers,
RAH


--- begin forwarded text


To: rah@shipwright.com
Subject: up your alley
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 12:11:39 -0500
From: Somebody


Have you listened to

http://www.novell.com/webcast/98/cato/crypto.ram

???


--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 03:11:58 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Hayek Quote of the Week - Rule of Law
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Date:         Mon, 21 Dec 1998 12:17:05 EST
Reply-To: Hayek Related Research 
Sender: Hayek Related Research 
From: Hayek-L List Host 
Subject:      Hayek Quote of the Week - Rule of Law
To: HAYEK-L@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU

                 Hayek Quote of the Week


"It is often not recognized that general and equal laws
provide the most effective protection against infringement
of individual liberty, this is due mainly to the habit of
tacitly exempting the state and its agents from them and
of assuming that the government has the power to
grant exemptions to individuals.  The ideal of the rule of
law requires that the state either enforce the law upon
others -- and that this be its only monopoly -- or act under
the same law and therefore be limited in the same manner
as the private person.  It is this fact that all rules apply
equally to all, including those who govern, which makes
it improbable that any oppressive rules will be adopted.

It would be humanly impossible to separate effectively the
laying-down of new general rules and their application
to particular cases unless these functions were performed
by different persons or bodies.  This part of the doctrine
of the separation of powers23 [fn23.  See W. S. Holdsworth's
review of the 9th edition of A. V. Dicey, _Constitution_, in
the _Law Quarterly Review_, Vol. LV (1939), which contains
one of the latest authoritative statements in England of the
tradition conception of the rule of law.  It deserves quotation
at length, but we will reproduce only one paragraph here:
'The rule of law is as valuable a principle today as it has ever
been.  For it means that the Courts can see to it that the
powers of officials, and official bodies of persons entrusted
with government, are not exceeded and are not abused,
and the rights of citizens are determined in accordance with
the law enacted and unenacted.  Insofar as the jurisdiction
of the Courts is ousted, and officials or official bodies of
persons are given a purely administrative discrection, the
rule of law is abrogated.  It is not abrogated if these officials
or official bodies are given a judicial or quasi-judicial
discretion, although the machinery through which the rule
is applied is not that of the Courts.'] must therefore be
regarded as an intergral part of the rule of law.  Rules must
not be made with particular cases in mind, nor must
particular cases be decided in light of anything but the
general rule -- though this rule may not yet have been
explicityly formulated and therefore have to be discovered.
This requires independent judges who are not concerned
with the temporary ends of government ,,, "


Friedrich Hayek, _The Constitution of Liberty_, Chicago:
U. of Chicago.  1960.  pp. 21-211.




Hayek Quote of the Week is a regular feature of the Hayek-L list.

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 03:47:16 +0800
To: Robert Hettinga 
Message-ID: <199812211904.LAA17808@smtp.well.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I see Bob is incorrectly assuming that the folks at the Cato Institute knew
nothing about cryptoanarchy before David's speech this fall...

(The audience may be a different story, though.)

-Declan


At 01:14 PM 12-21-98 -0500, Robert Hettinga wrote:
>Wherein David Friedman teaches cryptoanarchy 101 to the folks at the Cato
>Institute.
>
>A RealAudio transcription from the Cato/Forbes ASAP conference on
>cryptography held earlier this year.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 21:48:12 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199812211306.OAA24742@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



 ACLU: Bombing in Iraq Violates
     Constitution and War Powers Act

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Thursday, December 17, 1998

WASHINGTON -- The American Civil Liberties Union said today that the
bombing of Iraq ordered by President Clinton violates the Constitution
and the War Powers Act because it was not authorized by Congress.

Congress adopted the War Powers Act in 1973 to ensure that U.S. troops
are not sent into hostilities without Congressional authorization,
except in cases where a national emergency is created by attack upon the
United States.

"Launching a massive, sustained military assault is an action that no
one person in our democracy -- including the President -- can
authorize," said ACLU Legislative Counsel Gregory T. Nojeim, adding that
the ACLU takes no position on the use in force in Iraq.

"It is a power that the framers contemplated would be shared by Congress
and the President," Nojeim added, noting that Article I, Section 8,
Clause 11 of the Constitution grants to Congress "the power to declare
war [and] grant letters of marque and reprisal."

Under the Constitution, Congress is given the ultimate decision as to
whether to use force; the President's power is limited to decisions on
how to use the military after Congress has authorized the President to
act.

Section 2(c) of the War Powers Act states that the President has
constitutional authority to "introduce United States Armed Forces into
hostilities, or into situations where imminent involvement in
hostilities is clearly indicated by the circumstances, ... only pursuant
to (1) a declaration of war, (2) specific statutory authorization, or
(3) a national emergency created by an attack upon the United States.
..."

"A debate and vote on the use of force is especially important here,
since many members of Congress have publicly expressed reservations
about the timing of the attack, and Congressional resolutions have been
introduced about the use of force in Iraq," Nojeim said.

One of those resolutions expressed the sense of Congress that the United
States should not take military action against Iraq unless that action
was first authorized by Congress. That resolution, H. Con. Res. 226, was
introduced in February 1998, gathered 108 co-sponsors, but was never
voted on by the full House.

The ACLU said that the resolution that was adopted by the House today,
H. Res. 612, does not meet the requirements of the War Powers Act, and
that the Iraq Liberation Act, which was adopted by Congress and signed
by the President in October, did not authorize the use of U.S. forces in
Iraq.

"A debate would help ensure that all viewpoints on this important issue
are considered," Nojeim said, "and a vote ensures that such an important
decision has been endorsed by the people through their representatives
in Congress." 

        




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 03:43:00 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Hayek Quote of the Week - Rule of Law
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 1:22 PM -0500 on 12/21/98, Robert Hettinga wrote:



> "It is often not recognized that general and equal laws
> provide the most effective protection against infringement
> of individual liberty, this is due mainly to the habit of
> tacitly exempting the state and its agents from them and
> of assuming that the government has the power to
> grant exemptions to individuals.

Woops. Corrected version:

"IF it is often not recognized that general and equal law
provide the most effective protection against infringement
of individual liberty, this is due mainly to the habit of
tacitly exempting the state and its agents from them and
of assuming that the government has the power to grant
exemptions to individuals."

etc...


Cheers,
RAH
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 22:05:00 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199812211329.OAA25839@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



The Ministry of Information announces the following:

In order to ensure domestic tranquility and the maximum 
protection of human rights by reducing crimes against humanity, 
be it enacted that

- There shall be no whispering in public; you should have nothing 
to hide unless you are a criminal

- You may not walk or gather in groups of two or more; such gathering 
is an indication that you may be conspiring to commit some illegal act

- You may not have locks on your house; you should have nothing that you 
are keeping from the collective

- You are not to draw the blinds or curtains in your house; law-abiding 
citizens have nothing to hide

- All future voting will be by voice vote before the General Assembly; you 
will also proclaim your support for the Party before casting your vote

- You will not think.  Free thought is for those that conspire against the 
righteous government

- You will not associate with the Cypherpunks; they are enemies of those that 
would oppress you


        




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 05:26:23 +0800
To: Declan McCullagh 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 2:06 PM -0500 on 12/21/98, Declan McCullagh wrote:


> I see Bob is incorrectly assuming that the folks at the Cato Institute knew
> nothing about cryptoanarchy before David's speech this fall...


I see Declan is correctly picking nits about my use of the word "the". :-).
Your definition of "is" may vary, of course. Must be the water in DC, or
something. ;-).

The actual content of Freidman's speech aside (apparently), I stand upbraided,
your honor, as I'm sure *you* told the Catons all about CryptoA way before
they *ever* heard of Friedman. ;-).

(Yes, I know, Declan, you *know* Freidman, he was a good friend of yours, and
so forth and so on...)

> (The audience may be a different story, though.)

- From the questions, which were the standard clueless ones one gets from the
"policy" establishment on cryptoanarchy and anarchocapitalism, and, frankly,
cryptography in general, it sounded to me like they were receiving a first
hearing of Dr. Friedman, the putative (philosophical) godfather of all
cypherpunkery. An attack on flatland from the sky, and all that.

One way or another, the proof is in the .ra viewing, for anyone who wants to
go look for themselves.


Which segues me, in an attempt to ad value to the thread, other than thrashing
Declan for his nits :-), viz:

Given the remarkable cypherpunk-like sound of Dr. Friedman, the real question
here is, who came first, Freidman-egg, or cypherpunk-chickens?  The first
edition of "The Machinery of Freedom" came out in the early 1980's, (83?,
though somewhat-recently revised), yet Freidman leans heavily on post-mid-80's
Chaum in his talk to Cato, and uses heretofore cypherpunk neology, like
"anonymous remailers", "reputation capital", and the like. Not to mention
actual citation of the list itself in reference to Brin's book about the
hopelessness of all privacy.


And, of course, cash-settled information purchases. He mentions IPiracy in his
Cato talk, and tries to work around it contractually, and intimates that
watermarking might be silly unless you can recompile your code with
canary-traps for every customer, but doesn't say anything, like he should,
about Hughes'"organized piracy" idea, much less recursive (geodesic) auctions,
and so forth, as the obvious emergent solution to the whole problem of
"intellectual" property. Maybe he prefers contracts because he's employed by a
law school, or something? :-).


Personally, I think myself that people haven't read Coase closely enough. That
is, it seems to me that an encrypted copy of something in storage of my
exclusive control is about as private as private property can get, and as
such, I can sell it for whatever I can get for it.

If it's on my hard drive, it ain't yours anymore, in other words. Somewhere,
in my rants-to-do stack, is something on this topic, especially in light of
the explosively emerging MP3 market out there, and, paradoxically, the market
for the blind signature patent.


Cheers,
RAH



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.5.5

iQEVAwUBNn6yaMUCGwxmWcHhAQGn7AgAnFh2pumeFsOQBhrcyQbKV2omDNEEpFcU
xktNynBgxivNl52mhdJICQGtCsYR2s1riiPK5Z5e+y7n4VJ1sEI+x4t8msnHDxmP
ushpr9hjVpRBXB6+CinuMsZoWljFUwQzGjeHvoLPKAk2xyzZ1HxP2ZofBKqKvi3h
SZw/m/ZtcooasDPkl5M4dAXs95/+MclddiTTgeVkytnW0MTMfiNIdUHICAxZBWmX
sxJfLan66sIvKwmDJsH/Ilhq/Ng4vYKtFTBic2qJGql1oTPi3wX3fv/VYY0eB68J
+wdo90a7Q7SLsYtX3s0QE/gxSMtcmj8CaZ9iMPECBRjFO4hcZRmVmQ==
=moEV
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: remailer@rugratz.com (NewzBot)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 08:55:58 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Amazing New Virus from NAI!!!
Message-ID: <199812220024.QAA09843@uwin1.u.washington.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Network Associates has just announced an NT virus which spreads over
LAN/WANs.
 
Fortunately, there is a solution.  To speak to an NAI customer service
representative, please call 800 338-8754.
 
* Written in "C", an initial estimates is that it took NAI programmers 200
or more man-hours to write.
 
Fortunately, there is a solution.  To speak to an NAI customer service
representative, please call 800 338-8754.
 
Remember, there's a FREE Solution for Licensed NAI Corporate Customers
 
Or If you are not a Licensed NAI Customer, just click to purchase the
necessary anti-virus products online on our handy webpage.
 
      http://www.nai.com/antivirus/remote_explorer.asp
 
Network Associates:  The company you can trust, because we bought out
Phil Zimmermann!
 
Copyright (C) 1998 by Your Friends at Network Associates




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Richard.Bragg@ssa.co.uk
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 02:24:23 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re:
Message-ID: <802566E1.005F6E44.00@seunt002e.ssa.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



In addition:

You shall inform your local party representative (lpr) of all journeys to
be made and the purpose
thereof.  Only the guilty will wish to conceal their movements.

You shall also inform your lpr on any deviation from the registered
journey.  The innocent have
nothing to hide.

You shall share all personal information about yourself including bank
access codes and all
passwords.  You do trust The Party don't you?

Failure to comply with any regulation shall incure a with-holding of all
bodily functions order.
Compliance is entirely volentary.  Assistance with complience can be found
in you local
Yellow Pages or other business directory under Surgery, lobotomy or
Political Party, Membership.

Long life to the Party, slow and painful death to all who oppose us.
Resistance is useless.
You want a secure and happy life don't you?






Anonymous  on 21/12/98 13:29:50

To:   cypherpunks@toad.com
cc:    (bcc: Richard Bragg/UK/SSA_EUROPE)
Subject:




The Ministry of Information announces the following:

In order to ensure domestic tranquility and the maximum
protection of human rights by reducing crimes against humanity,
be it enacted that

- There shall be no whispering in public; you should have nothing
to hide unless you are a criminal

- You may not walk or gather in groups of two or more; such gathering
is an indication that you may be conspiring to commit some illegal act

- You may not have locks on your house; you should have nothing that you
are keeping from the collective

- You are not to draw the blinds or curtains in your house; law-abiding
citizens have nothing to hide

- All future voting will be by voice vote before the General Assembly; you
will also proclaim your support for the Party before casting your vote

- You will not think.  Free thought is for those that conspire against the
righteous government

- You will not associate with the Cypherpunks; they are enemies of those
that
would oppress you











From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 07:38:39 +0800
To: Digital Bearer Settlement List 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----


At 4:01 PM -0500 on 12/21/98, Somebody wrote:


> > If it's on my hard drive, it ain't yours anymore, in other
> > words.
>
> What are the assumptions?  Assuming that you were given what is on your hard

> drive, or can you have procured it by any means, like piracy, theft, etc.

:-).

I'm going to do a real rant on this, someday Real Soon Now, and you can see
the germ of the idea in Freidman's talk, and in my old Shipwright rants
, and also, I think, on the Philodox site
.

More to the point, we all, as far as I can tell, stole it from Eric Hughes,
who even went so far as to present a paper on the subject, long ago at a
DEFCON far away. Who knows where *he* got it from, but that's enough geneology
for the time being...



The point I'm making above comes from Ronald Coase, the father of modern
microeconomics, winner of Nobel for same, circa 1992?.

The most important thing that Coase said, the thing which got him the Nobel,
was that firm size was directly related to transaction cost.

In an information economy, especially in a world of Moore's law (yielding
increasingly geodesic networks, and the markets overlaid on them) and strong
cryptography (digital bearer transactions, perfect pseudonymity, etc.),
tranaction costs get *very* small indeed, and in a considerable hurry.

To some, I believe clueless :-), people, the above means that we still get
economies of scale, because the first copy of a given modern bloatware
application, like Word for Windows, is enormously expensive compared to its
replication cost, which is functionally free by comparison, even if you put a
box around it, much less if you just put it up for download from the web.

However, *I* say that if you can do profitable transactions in, say, the
micropenny range, you get a world where the bloated, industrially-delivered
code-in-boxes that we've all come to know and love starts to surfact, under
its own weight, into smaller and smaller functional bits, each maintained by
different, and much smaller, firms.

I use open source software as my case in point. Notice that, since the cost of
code itself is free, there is a huge, and expanding, diversity of very
specialized code out there now. The writers of that code don't make any money
on that code except by proxy, through enhanced reputation, and so forth.
However, if you could drive the cost of *transactions* down, people *would*
write code just for the money, and simply auction it off their websites to the
highest bidder, and could do so, profitably, for rediculously cheap prices.
More about that in a minute.


Sure, Red Hat grosses $20 million, but that's more a function of the
cost-domination of sneaker-netted CDROM over the still-scrawny lower
capillaries of the internet. More to the point, I claim, it's the result of
the cost of *credit-cards*, even *checks*, as a way to pay for code.
Book-entry settlement, in other words, which is done "out of band", over
private, hierarchical, and proprietary financial transaction networks.

If it were possible to pay to download code, as you needed it, for
instantaneously net-settled *cash*, and for sufficiently small enough bits of
money, then the need, the price-economy, if you will, for large glops of code
would go away.

And, Coase's theorem says (I think) so too would the large firms required to
generate those large glops of code.


So, what we're left with is a world where the legalities of intellectual
property are physically impossible to enforce, thus words like "privacy" cease
to have any real meaning. If you can't enforce such an intellectual "property"
law, it's kind of hard to call it a law, as most law professors and
philosophers of law will tell you.

Ironically, I claim, that's a very strong form of a *second* observation that
Ronald Coase made, that you can't have markets without private property.
Sounds like a motherhood, now, but he was the first person to articulate that
clearly, back in the early part of this century, and it's one of the reasons
he got the Nobel, of course.

*My* variant on Coase says that you don't need *laws* to ensure private
property in digital form. Cryptography will do just fine. Like I said, if it's
encrypted, and it's on my hard drive, it's now *mine* no matter where I got
it, laws or not. I mean, who's to know I have it to begin with, and, more to
the point, who's going to take it away without my permission, especially in a
world of encrypted offsite net.backups, m-of-n archival reconstruction, etc.

Write software, not laws, to quote the my old cypherpunk chestnut.


Yet, I claim, to finally answer your point :-), people who *make* new code in
such abrave new world, *still* make the most money. No, not "publish", or even
distribute new code, like Microsoft and Ingram do, but the actual guy plinking
away in CodeWarrior, or whatever. The mind behind the code, the developer,
let's call him, in a proper use of the now mostly corrupted word.


Here's how. You write software for a living. You upgrade your existing code
base, and you announce its availablity to the net. Everyone who has your code
knows how good your work is, and they probably have a standing bid in to buy
revs of it at some specific price, anyway. So, just like the specialist's book
at the New York Stock Exchange, you, or your website's CGI, accepts those
bids, highest to lowest, and, as new bids come in, you sort them into the
queue of outstanding orders, by price, of course, :-), and accept them in that
order.

Notice something important, but obvious, here. The people who bid the highest
get the first copy. We'll worry about Vickery variations on that auction some
other time.

Secondly, there's the fun part, the *recursive* part of "geodesic recursive"
or neologically, and, this very afternoon, "georecursive", auctions.

That is, if I paid a monster pile for the first copy, I must have such a
profitable need for it that it's worth it to me to pay that much. Of course,
one of the most profitable things I can do especially in a world where the net
isn't quite geodesic enough yet, and Freidman hints at this in his Cato talk,
is to *flip* that code.

Frankly, this is nothing really now. It's done identically the same way that
large institutions flip IP0's in the market for a hot stock, or, more
properly, a recording company or software "publisher" puts "talent" under
contract and remarkets their output in classical vertically-integrated, and I
say, now-industrial, markets for those goods.


So, back to the future, I pay through the nose to get to the first copy of
your code, because I have an orderbook of my *own* to fill, and, more
properly, I have sufficient bandwidth and processing power of my own to
remarket it. Even more fun, someone *else* can buy from me, and resell what I
sell them, *recursively*, ad infinitum, and, frankly I don't really *care*
what they do with what I sold them, because I've already bought low and sold
high.

I claim, even with all this rampant "piracy", and, especially as the network
gets more geodesic -- a process which these markets would probably
*accellerate* by the way think what would happen if you could sell bandwidth
this way -- the person who collects the most economic "rent" would be *you*,
the originator of the new code. Just like a rock star, if the code was popular
enough, but without the recording company. Well, actually, with lots of very
*little* record *distributors*, all taking a haircut, and, rarely would any of
them make anything near like what you made selling the first copies.

I mean, new information always costs more than old information, right? And, of
course, you, as a developer, will always have the *newest* information of
all...


Finally, it even behoves huge companies who control large blocks of
intellectual property, record companies, and Microsoft, for instance, :-), to
compete in this new kind of market, precisely *because* the the transaction
costs are so low and the initial profit margins are correspondingly higher.

It's *profitable* to play in this market, even when you're losing market
share, paradoxically, to smaller players. Think of what happened to large
movie studios in the 1960's and '70's, and how they were replaced, in the
*production* of movies, by director-owned, mostly ad-hoc, "virtual" production
companies, like Coppola's Zoetrope, or Speilburg's Amblin, or Lucasfilm/ILM.
Even the new "studios", like Dreamworks/SKG are really director-run
enterprizes (Spielburg and Geffen, remember?).

The "directors", the "auteurs" of software, are pretty much the guys who write
the code, yes?

Everything else is just transaction cost.


Cheers,
Robert Hettinga


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.5.5

iQEVAwUBNn7OucUCGwxmWcHhAQFidwf+MZ8SLZffWvH7g+QMY6Q2Q3P4flVkEVpr
keXiF7cXXKlv/zL48wX1fjan93MMwN65b9/o7aIe1Wvq1nQfFE1AhPaShYZwciz9
NpInA2+9Mrz30cU4Nj775gXHfCaFl68tUmKd8GwUBI4rwjrHKgFy5hFSWlxNQSFF
yQ8idMnmC7fSIELZJOurejYM90nA4z9QZZibekVuP+u3e6ogkclCS8m3e3QznpWY
yCTYHqFFc5JHHEHc4PCOALWei74/rTRVvaziEU3QQCvytXgsZu2j0OLkpukc4zqb
eJD/+Zkc3d1pfTqxaR4tLatr+QXVEuxozwz3nyoo3mzfd0LbKdBdnA==
=kKXa
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 01:53:03 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: bugs and gas
Message-ID: <199812211711.SAA10468@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>>>This is not how anthrax spreads. Communicability between humans is nearly
>>>nonexistent.

This is basically an advertizement for anthrax:
http://www.defenselink.mil/specials/Anthrax/anth.htm#medically

An index of CBW sites: 
http://www.cbiac.apgea.army.mil/


Chemical defense:
http://chemdef.apgea.army.mil/fm8-9/part_iii/index.htm








  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 02:20:15 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: export controlled fermenters
Message-ID: <199812211728.SAA12954@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




http://www.acda.gov/factshee/wmd/bw/auslist.htm



LIST OF DUAL-USE BIOLOGICAL EQUIPMENT
FOR EXPORT CONTROL

1. Complete containment facilities at P3, P4 containment level

Complete containment facilities that meet the criteria for P3 or P4 (BL3,
BL4, L3, L4) containment as specified in the WHO Laboratory Biosafety
manual (Geneva, 1983) are subject to export control. 

2. Fermenters*

Fermenters capable of cultivation of pathogenic micro-organisms, viruses or
for toxin production, without the propagation of aerosols, and having all
the following characteristics:


(a) capacity equal to or greater than 100 litres;
*Sub-groups of fermenters include bioreactors, chemostats and
continuous-flow systems.

3. Centrifugal Separators*

Centrifugal separators capable of the contiuous separation of pathogenic
micro-organisms, without the propagation of aerosols, and having all the
following characteristics:


(a) flow rate greater than 100 litres per hour;
(b) components of polished stainless steel or titanium;

(c) double or multiple sealing joints within the steam containment area; 

(d) capable of in-situ steam sterilization in a closed state.

*Centrifugal separators include decanters.

4. Cross-flow Filtration Equipment

Cross-flow filtration equipment capable of continuous separation of
pathogenic microorganisms, viruses, toxins and cell cultures without the
propagation of aerosols, having all the following characteristics:


(a) equal to or greater than 5 square metres;
(b) capable of in-situ sterilization.

5. Freeze-drying Equipment

Steam sterilizable freeze-drying equipment with a condensor capacity
greater than 50 kgs of ice in 24 hours and less than 1000 kgs of ice in 24
hours.

6. Equipment that incorporates or is contained in P3 or P4 (BL3, BL4, L3,
L4) containment housing, as follows:


(a) Independently ventilated protective full or half suits;
(b) Class III biological safety cabinets or isolators with similar
performance standards.

7. Aerosol inhalation chambers

Chambers designed for aerosol challenge testing with microorganisms,
viruses or toxins and having a capacity of 1 cubic metre or greater.

The experts propose that the following item be included in awareness
raising guidelines to industry:

1. Equipment for the micro-encapsulation of live micro-organisms and toxins
in the range of 1-10 um particle size, specifically:


(a) Interfacial polycondensors;
(b) Phase separators.

2. Fermenters of less than 100 litre capacity with special emphasis on
aggregate orders or designs for use in combined systems.

3. Conventional or turbulent air-flow clean-air rooms and self-contained
fan-HEPA filter units that may be used for P3 or P4 (BL3, BL4, L3, L4)
containment facilities. 



----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----


AUSTRALIA GROUP
LIST OF BIOLOGICAL AGENTS FOR EXPORT
CONTROL CORE LIST1

Viruses

V1. Chikungunya virus
V2. Congo-Crimean haemorrhagic fever virus
V3. Dengue fever virus
V4. Eastern equine encephalitis virus
V5. Ebola virus
V6. Hantaan virus
V7. Junin virus
V8. Lassa fever virus
V9. Lymphocytic choriomeningitis virus
V10. Machupo virus
V11. Marburg virus
V12. Monkey pox virus
V13. Rift Valley fever virus
V14. Tick-borne encephalitis virus (Russian Spring-Summer encephalitis virus)
V15. Variola virus
V16. Venezuelan equine encephalitis virus
V17. Western equine encephalitis virus
V18. White pox
V19. Yellow fever virus
V20. Japanese encephalitis virus

Rickettsiae

R1. Coxiella burnetii
R2. Bartonella Quintana (Rochalimea quintana, Rickettsia quintana)
R3. Rickettsia prowasecki
R4. Rickettsia rickettsii

Bacteria

B1. Bacillus anthracis
B2. Brucella abortus
B3. Brucella melitensis
B4. Brucella suis
B5. Chlamydia psittaci
B6. Clostridium Botulinum
B7. Francisella tularensis
B8. Burkholderia mallei (pseudomonas mallei)
B9. Burkholderia pseudomallei (pseudomonas pseudomallei)
B10. Salmonella typhi
B11. Shigella dysenteriae
B12. Vibrio cholerae
B13. Yersinia pestis

Genetically Modified Micro-organisms

G1. Genetically modified micro-organisms or genetic elements that contain
nucleic acid sequences associated with pathogenicity and are derived from
organisms in the core list.

G2. Genetically modified micro-organisms or genetic elements that contain
nucleic acid sequences coding for any of the toxins in the core list, or
their subunits.

Toxins as follow and subunits thereof:2

T1. Botulinum toxins
T2. Clostridium perfringens toxins
T3. Conotoxin
T4. Ricin
T5. Saxitoxin
T6. Shiga toxin
T7. Staphylococcus aureaus toxins
T8. Tetrodotoxin
T9. Verotoxin
T10. Microcystin (Cyanginosin)
T11. Alflatoxins

__________________

1. Except where the agent is in the form of a vaccine.
2. Excluding immunotoxins.



----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----


WARNING LIST1
Viruses

WV1. Kyasanur Forest virus
WV2. Louping ill virus
WV3. Murray Valley encephalitis virus
WV4. Omsk haemorrhagic fever virus
WV5. Oropouche virus
WV6. Powassan virus
WV7. Rocio virus
WV8. St. Louis encephalitis virus

Bacteria

WB1. Clostridium perfringens*
WB2. Clostridium tetani*
WB3. Enterohaemorrhagic Escherichia coli, serotype 0157 and other verotoxin
producing serotypes
WB4. Legionella pneumophila
WB5. Yersinia pseudotuberculosis

Genetically Modified Micro-organisms

WG1. Genetically modified micro-organisms or genetic elements that contain
nucleic acid sequences associated with pathogenicity and are derived from
organisms in the warning list.

WG2. Genetically modified micro-organisms or genetic elements that contain
nucleic acid sequences coding for any of the toxins in the warning list, or
their subunits.

Toxins as follow and subunits thereof:2

WT1. Abrin
WT2. Cholera toxin
WT3. Tetanus toxin
WT4. Trichothecene mycotoxins
WT5. Modeccin
WT6. Volkensin
WT7. Viscum Album Lectin 1 (Viscumin)

__________________

*The Australia Group recognizes that these organisms are ubiquitous, but,
as they have been acquired in the past as part of biological weapons
programs, they are worthy of special caution.

1. Except where the agent is in the form of a vaccine.

2. Excluding immunotoxins.



----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----


AUSTRALIA GROUP
LIST OF ANIMAL PATHOGENS FOR EXPORT CONTROL1

Viruses

AV1. African swine fever virus
AV2. Avian influenza virus2
AV3. Bluetongue virus
AV4. Foot and mouth disease virus
AV5. Goat pox virus
AV6. Herpes virus (Aujeszky's disease)
AV7. Hog cholera virus (synonym: Swine fever virus)
AV8. Lyssa virus
AV9. Newcastle disease virus
AV10. Peste des petits ruminants virus
AV11. Porcine enterovirus type 9 (synonym: swine vesicular disease virus)
AV12. Rinderpest virus
AV13. Sheep pox virus
AV14. Teschen disease virus
AV15. Vesicular stomatitis virus

_____________________

1. Except where the agent is in the form of a vaccine.

2. This includes only those Avian influenza viruses of high pathogenicity
as defined in EC Directive 92/401EC:

"Type A viruses with an IVPI (intravenous pathogenicity index) in 6 week
old chickens of greater than 1.2, or

Type A viruses HS or H7 subtype for which nucleotide sequencing has
demonstrated multiple basic amino acids at the cleavage site of
haemegglutinin."

Bacteria

AB3. Mycoplasma mycoides

Genetically-modified Micro-organisms

AG1. Genetically modified micro-organisms or genetic elements that contain
nucleic acid sequences associated with pathogenicity and are derived from
organisms in the list.



----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----


AUSTRALIA GROUP 
CONTROL LIST OF PLANT PATHOGENS FOR EXPORT CONTROL

CORE LIST

Baceria

PB1. Xanthomonas albilineans
PB2. Xanthomonas campestris pv. citri

Fungi

PF1. Colletotrichum coffeanum var. virulans (Colletotrichum Kanawae)
PF2. Cochliobolus miyabeanus (Helminthosporium oryzae)
PF3. Microcyclus ulei (syn. Dothidella ulei)
PF4. Puccinia graminis (syn. Puccinia graminis f. sp. tritici)
PF5. Puccinia striiformis (syn. Pucciniaglumarum)
PF6. Pyricularia grisea/Pyricularia oryzae

Genetically-modified Micro-organisms

PG1. Genetically-modified micro-organisms or genetic elements that contain
nucleic acid sequences associated with pathogenicity derived from the plant
pathogens identified on the export control list.



----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----


ITEMS FOR INCLUSION IN AWARENESS RAISING GUIDELINES
Bacteria

PWB1. Xanthomonas campestris pv. oryzae
PWB2. Xylella fastidiosa

Fungi

PWF1. Deuterophoma tracheiphila (syn. Phoma tracheiphila)
PWF2. Monilia rorei (syn. Moniliophthora rorei)

Viruses

PWV1 Banana bunchy top virus

Genetically-modified Micro-organisms

PWG1 Genetically-modified micro-organisms or genetic elements that contain
nucleic acid sequences associated with pathogenicity derived from the plant
pathogens identified on the awareness raising list. 







  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Frederick Burroughs 
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 10:09:59 +0800
To: Cypherpunks 
Subject: Re: export controlled fermenters
In-Reply-To: <199812211728.SAA12954@replay.com>
Message-ID: <367EF915.829C1867@shentel.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





Anonymous wrote:

> http://www.acda.gov/factshee/wmd/bw/auslist.htm

> AUSTRALIA GROUP
> LIST OF BIOLOGICAL AGENTS FOR EXPORT
> CONTROL CORE LIST1

[...]

> Genetically Modified Micro-organisms
>
> G1. Genetically modified micro-organisms or genetic elements that contain
> nucleic acid sequences associated with pathogenicity and are derived from
> organisms in the core list.
>
> G2. Genetically modified micro-organisms or genetic elements that contain
> nucleic acid sequences coding for any of the toxins in the core list, or
> their subunits.
>
> Toxins as follow and subunits thereof:2
>
> T1. Botulinum toxins
> T2. Clostridium perfringens toxins
> T3. Conotoxin
> T4. Ricin
> T5. Saxitoxin
> T6. Shiga toxin
> T7. Staphylococcus aureaus toxins
> T8. Tetrodotoxin
> T9. Verotoxin
> T10. Microcystin (Cyanginosin)
> T11. Alflatoxins

[...]

Hmmm, mythical chimeras subject to export control? E. coli with a dinoflagellate
sting? Smegma that erupts into gas gangrene? Surely these nightmares are only
paranoid delusions of national security strategists who may have eaten British
beef too close to bedtime. A pox on their infections! And a swab of flesh eating
streptococcus on the lubri-smooth strip of all their razors, so they can't save
face.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Blanc" 
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 13:23:27 +0800
To: "'Digital Bearer Settlement List'" 
Subject: RE: Friedman (The Younger) Sings...
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <000601be2d68$d3fd63c0$878195cf@blanc>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>From Bob Hettinga:

: Given the remarkable cypherpunk-like sound of Dr. Friedman, the real question
: here is, who came first, Freidman-egg, or cypherpunk-chickens?  The first
: edition of "The Machinery of Freedom" came out in the early 1980's, (83?,
: though somewhat-recently revised), yet Freidman leans heavily on post-mid-80's
: Chaum in his talk to Cato, and uses heretofore cypherpunk
: neology, like "anonymous remailers", "reputation capital", and the like.
: Not to mention actual citation of the list itself in reference to Brin's
: book about the hopelessness of all privacy.
.................................................


Friedman came first, though there were others before him, in reference to the
economic philosophical side of the anarchist-type ideas.  But Friedman sometimes
contributed to the Extropian list, as I remember when I was on it, and very
likely lurked on cypherpunks, as I remember seeing a post or two from him -
perhaps only because he was copied on a question.  But he was 'exposed', so to
speak, to the cpunkish themes from either, or both, lists, and no doubt had
off-line conversations on these subjects.

   ..
Blanc




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Eric Cordian 
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 12:28:04 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Anthrax Theatre
Message-ID: <199812220337.VAA18943@wire.insync.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Friday's debut of "Anthrax Theatre" was such an critically aclaimed
success, that another performance was given today, to an audience ten
times the size.
 
-----
 
LOS ANGELES (AP) -- A telephoned anthrax threat forced as many as
1,500 people to be quarantined for several hours on Monday at two
courthouses before it was found to be a hoax.
 
A man called the 911 emergency line at about 11 a.m. and stated ``I
have something to tell you -- anthrax has been released in the Van
Nuys courthouse,'' then hung up, said Laura Bosley, a spokeswoman for
the FBI.
 
The old and new Superior Court buildings in Van Nuys were sealed off
and up to 1,500 people taken outside and isolated to determine whether
they were exposed to any hazardous materials, authorities said.
 
Hazardous materials crews with face masks, air tanks and protective
suits were sent inside.
 
``They did an investigation and nothing was found,'' said Jim Wells, a
spokesman for the city Fire Department.
 
No major injuries or illnesses were reported.

-- 
Eric Michael Cordian 0+
O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division
"Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Steve Mynott 
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 06:30:48 +0800
To: Robert Hettinga 
Message-ID: <19981221214313.A21655@tightrope.demon.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Mon, Dec 21, 1998 at 03:41:53PM -0500, Robert Hettinga wrote:
 
> Given the remarkable cypherpunk-like sound of Dr. Friedman, the real question
> here is, who came first, Freidman-egg, or cypherpunk-chickens?  The first
> edition of "The Machinery of Freedom" came out in the early 1980's, (83?,
> though somewhat-recently revised), yet Freidman leans heavily on post-mid-80's
> Chaum in his talk to Cato, and uses heretofore cypherpunk neology, like
> "anonymous remailers", "reputation capital", and the like. Not to mention
> actual citation of the list itself in reference to Brin's book about the
> hopelessness of all privacy.

"The Machinery of Freedom" far from being published in the early '80s
was published in 1971 and is based on writings from the late '60s.

It is very much aimed at 60s alternative types a with relaxed writing
style, anti-drug law and pro freedom line.

This book when I read it through FCS in the early '80s convinced me I was a 
libertarian.  I didn't come across cypherpunk theory until much 
later and, when I did, I saw it obviously followed libertarianism.

I am sure Friedman was well aware on how technological advances could
weaken the state and to accuse him of "copying" is facile.

-- 
1024/D9C69DF9 steve mynott steve@tightrope.demon.co.uk http://www.pineal.com/

one page principle:
    a specification that will not fit on one page of 8.5x11 inch
    paper cannot be understood.
        -- mark ardis




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: simya "mühendislik" 
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 14:34:07 +0800
To: Cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: list
Message-ID: <19981222060923.10427.rocketmail@send102.yahoomail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



thanks!




_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 08:04:04 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199812212120.WAA30600@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



 i   got a mail message delivered by the friendly old postal service, from
Toto.  he says he has been elected Santa Calus (aka Santa Loco) of Yucca
South CellBlock, at FCI-Tuscon but 'Santa is in The Hole (TM).'

 he is or at least was sharing a cell with a skinhead called 'reaper.' but
reaper has 'great reading material' - such as GQ magaazine - so it's 'not
as grim as it might seem.'
 
 he says he has come down with a skin condition that is still untreated by
the prison authorities.  his toto-eque notes to the prison staff on
'inmate request' forms don't seem to be helping.

  that's all.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Greg Broiles 
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 15:46:07 +0800
To: Robert Hettinga 
Message-ID: <4.1.19981221212704.00935410@pop.wenet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I've been away for a bit, physically and otherwise, but have am back from
vacation and spent some time down at the clerk's office of the bankruptcy
court in San Jose today. Apropos to an ongoing discussion of a week or so ago -

At 07:20 PM 12/16/98 -0500, Robert Hettinga wrote:
[...]
>Of course, we'll find out the real answers to all of this when the Chapter 11
>filing is actually final. Right now, I hear that there's nothing there but
>a placeholder filing, with no actual assets listed in detail, much less
>whether they're secured by anything.

The filing is real - the court's file is up to about 400 pages, so I didn't
get the whole thing, but the schedules (including a list of assets) have
been filed. I'm in the process of digesting them into a website about the
Digicash bankruptcy. A little birdie sent me a document which is
purportedly the Dutch bankruptcy filing, and I'm looking for a translator.
Volunteers? 

According to the documents filed with the court, Digicash Inc. has assets
of $51,649, and liabilities of $3,068,076.49. The breakdown is as follows:

Real estate				$0
Personal property			$51,649
Secured claims			($123,438.09)
Unsecured priority claims	($279,500.60)
Unsecured nonpriority claims	($2,665,137.80)

Personal property includes $5,595.00 in cash, $23,220 in advance payments
on leases or security deposits, $5,750 in accounts receivable, and $17,084
in office supplies, furniture, and equipment.

Secured claims includes $73,449.56 for/secured by computer equipment,
$12,362 for/secured by a copier, and $37,626.53 for/secured by office
furniture, fittings, etc. 

Unsecured priority claims are for wages & commissions owed to employees and
independent sales agents, for amounts earned in the 90 days prior to
bankruptcy, maxing out at $4300 per person entitled to priority.

Unsecured nonpriority claims are everything else - including a bridge loan
from August Capital for $825,941.00, a bridge loan from the Glide IT Fund
for $386,325.18, legal fees of $103,756 to Gunderson Dettmer, $53,143.25 to
Netscape (apparently a software license, marked as disputed), a bridge loan
from Nicholas Negroponte for $193,735.20, legal fees of $25,103.29 to Nixon
& Vanderhyde of Washington DC (patent attorneys, who were kind enough to
file detailed legal bills with their proof of claim), a bridge loan from
Paul Van Keep of $61,698.36, legal fees of $20,635.59 to Steinhauser
Hoogenraad of the Netherlands, a bridge loan of $581,339.77 from Tech. For
Information and Entertainment III LP of Lexington MA, and a bridge loan of
$7242.35 from Thomas Little of Nashua NH. (there are also a fair number of
small to medium trade debts which I haven't listed here.) 

The IP listed as assets (but not assigned a value in the amounts shown
above) include these patents:

(all are US patents)

5,712,913	Limited-traceability systems
5,781,631	Limited-traceability systems
5,493,614	Private signature and proof systems
5,485,520	Automatic real-time highway toll collection from moving vehicles
[listed twice]
5,434,919	Compact endorsement signature systems
5,373,558	Desinated[sic]-confirmer signature systems
5,276,736	Optionally moderated transaction systems
5,131,039	Optionally moderated transaction systems
4,996,711	Selected-exponent signature systems
4,991,210	Unpredictable blind signature systems
4,987,593	One-show blind signature systems
4,949,380	Returned-value blind signature systems
4,947,430	Undeniable signature systems
4,926,480	Card-computer moderated systems
4,914,698	One-show blind signature systems
4,759,064	Blind unanticipated signature systems
4,759,063	Blind signature systems
4,529,870	Cryptographic identification, financial transaction, and
credential device

The IP list also mentions that DigiCash holds copyrights to software in the
US and abroad, without providing further detail.

Digicash holds or has filed for trademarks on the terms "DIGICASH" and
"ECASH" in the following jurisdictions: Australia, Brazil, Canada,
Switzerland, Chile, China, Costa Rica, Germany, European Community,
Finland, Israel, India, Iceland, Japan, South Korea, Mexico, Malaysia,
Norway, New Zealand, Phillipines, Singapore, Thailand, and the United
States. They have also filed for (not all are approved or registered) the
following trademarks in the US: CRYPTOPAY, CYBER DOLLAR, CYBER PAY, CYBER$,
CYBER-BUCKS, CYBER-CASH, CYBERCHEQUE, CYBERMILES, DATACOIN, DIGI$,
DIGI-CASH, DIGI-DOLLAR, DIGIBANK, DIGICASH, DIGICOIN, DIGIPAY, E$, E-CASH,
E-COIN, E-DOLLAR, E-MONEY, E-PAY, E-VOTE, ECREDIT, EGIRO, EMILES, EWIRE,
EYECASH/ICASH, FIRST DIGITAL BANK, KIDCASH, MONEY MAN, MONEY MEDIA,
NET-CASH, NET-PAY, PAY-AS-YOU-GO, TELEPAY, V-BANK, V-CASH, V-COIN, V-MONEY,
V-PAY, V-SHOP, VIRTUAL CASH, VIRTUAL COIN.

There's no discussion of foreign patents, which seems peculiar - the legal
bills from the patent attorneys included amounts for foreign associates,
with legal bills for Japanese patent matters sticking out in particular. 

As far as I can tell, Digicash Inc. (the US corp) was formed in 1990; the
Netherlands and Australian corps are/were subsidiaries of the US corp.

The filing discloses the following historical financial data -

Year		Sales
1998		$134,842
1997		$ 10,000

Year		Income
1998		$23,161 interest
1998		$ 2,580 sale of assets 
1997		$53,464 interest

The other item which may be of interest is that the IP portfolio has been
pledged as collateral for a post-filing bridge loan obtained from most of
the funders who are owed the $2M unsecured; I was hoping to trade files
with someone else (whom I haven't been able to meet with yet) so I didn't
get a copy of that filing, but I seem to remember that the postfiling
bridge loan, approved by the court, was for $330K, which will be paid back
from the proceeds of the sale of DigiCash's assets.

I'm hoping to work all of this up into a more comprehensive presentation,
but that's going to take another week or two at least.  
--
Greg Broiles
gbroiles@netbox.com
PGP: 0x26E4488C




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Reeza! 
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 23:52:07 +0800
To: Jukka E Isosaari 
Subject: Re: I must admit. . .
In-Reply-To: <19981216144244.7920.rocketmail@send101.yahoomail.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981221234722.009bd210@205.83.192.13>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/enriched

 At 10:03 PM 12/17/98 +0200, Jukka E Isosaari wrote:
--snip--
>
>Everyone is touting how he [saddam hussein, (Reeza!)] is behind every nasty thing that the 
>Iraq does, so just kill or capture and imprison him. Don't take
>it out on all the Iraqis.

Make a martyr of him, in other words?

>Now, how's that for an alternative?

Perfectly acceptable to me personally. Please show how it will result in proving that Iraq does not, and will not in the near or forseeable future possess weapons of mass destruction that may be utilized against neighbors, foreign or domestic. Or how it will result in turning the public opinion, iraqi and/or american, touted by the biased US press in such a fashion that it would result in a munificent display of openness, agreeablility, and welcoming to the UN inspectors by the iraqi hosts. Or show how Hussein is now trustworthy, and thereby qualified by the MIB office of the USG to possess said weapons.

>But I doubt it will happen. 
>
>The UK+USA need an icon, a person to embody as THE international
>satanic terrorist threat to all civilized nations. 

I nominate SKOD.
SKOD's been around, for a long, long year,
he Stole many a man's soul and faith,,,,

any boogey man in a pinch, yes???

>Otherwise their
>current military expenditures would look ridiculously high and
>unnecessary, 

"It is a doctrine of war not to assume the enemy will not come,
but rather to rely on one's readiness to meet him..." 

--  Sun Tsu

You FOOL. 
You deserve to be subjugated. 
Don't expect me to willingly go with you. 
Don't try to take me with you,,, you will bleed.

>now that the Russians don't pose any threat. This is
>also why terrorist horror scenarios and stories are increasingly
>used to justify incredible expenditure. 

Terrorist threats are increasingly used to justify invasions of privacy, meanwhile real threats to Freedom and Primacy are neglected because all the Doves endlessly recite the litany of fatalism: The Evil Russian Empire Is Dead, Eradicate Our Own Military. 

In the face of a dovish regime, anything that will work is used to justify expenditure for the military. GET IT RIGHT.

The installed power base seeks to stabilize and solidify its possession of the reins of authority. MUSH,,, MUSH,,,, MUSH,,, I SAID MUSH,,,, 

>The military is engaged
>in creating a threat to justify their existence and continued 

EAT MY MILITARY FUCKING SHORTS YOU PUSSY FUCKWAD FAGGOT SON-OF-A-BITCH. The powers of the military are being abused by CIVILIANS who cannot fathom the true purpose of the military, think the military doesn't earn its pay. I have something for YOU to earn, you ewe you.

>economic well-being. Saddam is worth much, much more to them when
>he is alive and well in Iraq.

OH YEAH, OH YEAH, THAT is why we dropped leaflets advocating the iraqis do everything in their power to maintain their present, totalitarian regime. GET A FUCKING CLUE YOU GREASY STAIN ON THIS MAILING LIST.

>The fact, however, is that any loony Unabomber cooking some anthrax
>in his cellar in the US, would be able to harm the US more than the
>whole nation of Iraqis right now, or in the years to come. Welcome
>to Echelon and big brother surveillance justification.

OH YEAH, OH YEAH BABY, You are on a roll, tell it like it is, 



Like the good doctor in nevada who appeared on national tv TWO WHOLE FUCKING DAYS BEFORE the feds ransacked his lab, only to have their entire "just cause" falter and be riddled with inexcusable and inexplicable faults, to ultimately be thrown out for lack of evidence? 

If ANTHRAX recipes are so easily obtainable, if it is so easy to make, so easy to disseminate, and public knowledge to boot, POST IT HERE, POST IT HERE. 

24 hour time limit, IF IT IS EASY, You shouldn't have any trouble making the deadline now should you? And none of that "I don't want to give away inappropriate information" pussy shit. It is wholly relevant, not inappropriate, and will MAKE ME APOLOGIZE TO YOU AND THE LIST. 

DO IT. DO IT. DO IT, 


you make me want to vomit.

shut the fuck up and go the fuck away.

Don't try to do any good deeds for me, you Do Gooder Piece Of Shit.

BTW, Fuck You.

Reeza!



DH Key available on request


If you see a man approaching you with the obvious intention 
of doing you good, you should run for your life.

-stolen from a cypherpunk sig



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 09:48:55 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Good archive of AES algorithms?
Message-ID: <199812220127.CAA17522@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> Is there a good archive of all the algorithms submitted for
> AES?  I'd be interested especially in one that also had
> info on what's been broken so far, plus implementations and
> performance numbers. I can't find all this info on any one
> site, but I can't believe that one doesn't exist.

The home page for the AES is http://www.nist.gov/aes/

There is a page with current attack/break information at:
http://www.ii.uib.no/~larsr/aes.html.

Bruce Schneier et al have done performance comparisons of AES algorithms;
links to their results at http://www.counterpane.com/AES-performance.html.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 10:23:05 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Anonymous nym ratings
Message-ID: <199812220202.DAA22604@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Adam Back writes:
> Probably a good rule of thumb is never to sign anything and always
> post via a mixmaster chain.

Good idea!

> Some messages don't need a persistent nym
> even.  Perhaps one could construct a zero knowledge proof of nym
> reputation rating without identityfing the nym which might be useful
> for filtering without linkability.

This could be done via some of the recent work on group signatures.
Efficient methods have been developed to show that a message is signed
by a key, without revealing what the key is, but proving that the key
itself is signed by a specific other key.

Imagine an editor who only signs keys belonging to people who deserve
to get through filters.  Call this "endorsing" a key.  If you respect
that editor, you set your filters to let messages through which are by
keys he has endorsed in this manner.  Now, people can submit messages
anonymously, but in such a way that they are provably written by an
endorsed key, without revealing which key it is.

The protocols are reasonably efficient, with signature verification taking
about 20 times longer than a regular DSS signature.  However the methods
involve blind signatures, and hence would infringe upon Chaum's patent.

The group signature was described at Crypto 97; an extension for blind
group signatures at Asiacrypt 98; and more work will be presented at
FC 99.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jukka E Isosaari 
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 12:32:31 +0800
To: Reeza! 
Subject: Re: I must admit. . .
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981221234722.009bd210@205.83.192.13>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Mon, 21 Dec 1998, Reeza! wrote:

> At 10:03 PM 12/17/98 +0200, Jukka E Isosaari wrote:
> --snip--
> >Everyone is touting how he [saddam hussein, (Reeza!)] is behind every
> >nasty thing that the Iraq does, so just kill or capture and imprison
> >him. Don't take it out on all the Iraqis. 
>
> Make a martyr of him, in other words?
> 
> >Now, how's that for an alternative?
> 
> Perfectly acceptable to me personally. Please show how it will result in
> proving that Iraq does not, and will not in the near or forseeable future
> possess weapons of mass destruction that may be utilized against
> neighbors, foreign or domestic. Or how it will result in turning the
> public opinion, iraqi and/or american, touted by the biased US press in
> such a fashion that it would result in a munificent display of openness,
> agreeablility, and welcoming to the UN inspectors by the iraqi hosts. Or
> show how Hussein is now trustworthy, and thereby qualified by the MIB
> office of the USG to possess said weapons.

It won't. But please show how bombing the shit out of all the Iraqis will
accomplish this either? I would imagine getting rid of the lunatic leader
and establishing a civilized democracy with human rights in place, would
result in a state that would not be as prone to be as aggressive or
inclined to use weapons of mass destruction. Or isn't that the ultimate
goal?

But you are right, I must admit, that not *all* democracies are
non-aggressive, with USA coming to mind as an example. It seems that
rotten people with no moral values at the top, result in aggressive
foreign policies, no matter what the nation.

The bombing will only result in creating more frustrated individuals with
personal vendettas against the US. (People with dead children/wives, etc.)

With your logic, the US is on a road to kill every non-american on this
planet, in order to ensure their own safety. 

Actually, this has been evident quite some time in the US foreign policy: 
The *only* lives that matter are the American ones. It is also very evident
in the US film industry (national propaganda/brainwashing machine). Just
how many war movies have you seen where the US special-forces squads
venture into the vietnam/arabs and kill hundreds or thousands of people in
order to save a few US prisoners? Try thinking that in reverse, an Arab
squad coming into the US, and killing hundreds of US citizens to save a few
arabs, for a change. Seeing a few movies like that would do some good to a
lot of americans in restoring their respect for universal human life. 

Anyway, the point I am trying to make in this, is that the americans don't
in general seem to put any value on human life, *unless* it is an american.
This is evident everywhere: in their film industry, their foreign politics,
and even Bill Gates' donation policies. It seems to be a fact ever more
blatant. 

Anyone else notice this?

> >The military is engaged
> >in creating a threat to justify their existence and continued 
>
> EAT MY MILITARY FUCKING SHORTS YOU PUSSY FUCKWAD FAGGOT SON-OF-A-BITCH.
> The powers of the military are being abused by CIVILIANS who cannot
> fathom the true purpose of the military, think the military doesn't earn
> its pay. I have something for YOU to earn, you ewe you.
> 
> >economic well-being. Saddam is worth much, much more to them when
> >he is alive and well in Iraq.
> 
> OH YEAH, OH YEAH, THAT is why we dropped leaflets advocating the iraqis
> do everything in their power to maintain their present, totalitarian
> regime. GET A FUCKING CLUE YOU GREASY STAIN ON THIS MAILING LIST.

Did I hit a nerve or something?

Usually people resort to name-calling only when feeling badly inferior
or in lack of any real facts to represent in defence of their case,
and in general this justifies the strong doubt that the person in
question is in fact a juvenile.

I'm sorry, but I won't waste my time on blathering kids like you. 

(Please note: I've Cc:ed the root at your site, as you appear to be so
childish, and I wouldn't know what a child is doing with a .mil account,
so you must be using your parent's account or a hacked account,
both of which are in general very much against the rules..

Or, in the unlikely case that you are actually an adult, please consider
this as an exemplary sample of Mr Zeebra's skills in delivering verbal
attacks in defence of his country. Surely you recognize his superiors
language skills and the qualifications he has for the assignation to the
national ultra secret verbal cyber-warfare attack squad, designed to
destroy the egos and PCs of all those who have not bought in to the US
military propaganda.)

In any case, I realize this is the wrong list for this discussion. 
Please continue in private, like a good netbaby, if you feel like
more name-calling. I've already added you to my filters.

++ J

> >The fact, however, is that any loony Unabomber cooking some anthrax
> >in his cellar in the US, would be able to harm the US more than the
> >whole nation of Iraqis right now, or in the years to come. Welcome
> >to Echelon and big brother surveillance justification.
> 
> OH YEAH, OH YEAH BABY, You are on a roll, tell it like it is, 
> 
> <
> 
> Like the good doctor in nevada who appeared on national tv TWO WHOLE
> FUCKING DAYS BEFORE the feds
> ransacked his lab, only to have their entire "just cause" falter and be
> riddled with inexcusable and inexplicable faults, to ultimately be thrown
> out for lack of evidence? 
> 
> If ANTHRAX recipes are so easily obtainable, if it is so easy to make, so
> easy to disseminate, and public knowledge to boot, POST IT HERE, POST IT
> HERE. 
> 
> 24 hour time limit, IF IT IS EASY, You shouldn't have any trouble making
> the deadline now should you? And none of that "I don't want to give away
> inappropriate information" pussy shit. It is wholly relevant, not
> inappropriate, and will MAKE ME APOLOGIZE TO YOU AND THE LIST. 
>
> DO IT. DO IT. DO IT, 
> you make me want to vomit.
> 
> 
> shut the fuck up and go the fuck away.
> 
> 
> Don't try to do any good deeds for me, you Do Gooder Piece Of Shit.
> 
> 
> BTW, Fuck You.
> 
> 
> Reeza!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DH Key available on request
> 
> 
> 
> 	If you see a man approaching you with the obvious intention 
> 
> 	of doing you good, you should run for your life.
> 
> 
> 				-stolen from a cypherpunk sig
> 
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jukka E Isosaari 
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 13:22:39 +0800
To: root@cable.navy.mil
Subject: [ISN] Need help keeping your company's mail respectable?   (fwd)
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Thought some people might be in need of a tool like this...

++ J
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 13:32:59 -0700 (MST)
From: mea culpa 
To: InfoSec News 
Subject: [ISN] Need help keeping your company's mail respectable?  



Need help keeping your company's mail respectable? 
http://www8.zdnet.com/pcweek/stories/news/0,4153,364134,00.html
By Christy Walker, PC Week Online
October 26, 1998 9:00 AM ET
   
IT managers looking to clean up their companies' e-mail and enforce
corporate e-mail policies can get help from several software developers. 
   
New releases due soon from Worldtalk Corp., SRA International Inc. and
Content Technologies Inc.  will augment the basic management capabilities
found in mainstream e-mail packages such as Lotus Notes and Microsoft
Exchange, adding features such as content control, archiving, security and
virus scanning. 
   
Worldtalk, of Santa Clara, Calif., early next year will roll out an
upgrade of its WorldSecure Server that will allow users to control e-mail
content, scan for viruses and enforce archive policies on internal
messages as well as messages moving between the company and the public
Internet. 
   
The new release, Version 4.0, will monitor mail moving across the internal
network. The current version, 3.2, sits at the gateway level and only
scans messages between the company and the Internet. 
   
Another tool, Assentor, from SRA, uses a natural language search engine to
automate the scanning of e-mail messages for inappropriate content. 
   
Assentor 1.2, which is due by early next year, will include the ability to
route messages based on the word patterns found in an e-mail message.
Version 1.2 will also be able to look for specific word patterns based on
the requirements of individual groups, said officials of the Fairfax, Va.,
company. 
   
Assentor is widely used by securities companies that are required by the
Securities and Exchange Commission to closely monitor e-mail and other
client communications. The product helps reduce the numbers of messages
that branch managers and compliance officers must review, SRA officials
said. 
   
Assentor uses MIMEsweeper, e-mail scanning software from Content Technologies.
   
Content Technologies, meanwhile, plans to boost MIMEsweeper with the
ability to deal with encryption. Version 4.0, due early next year, will
support message decryption so that MIMEsweeper can scan encrypted messages
for content such as viruses, said officials at the Kirkland, Wash.,
company. 
   
In addition, Content Technologies will roll out a MIMEsweeper add-on
module next month that scans both inbound and outbound messages for
offensive language. 



-o-
Subscribe: mail majordomo@repsec.com with "subscribe isn".
Today's ISN Sponsor: Repent Security Incorporated [www.repsec.com]





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 21:47:47 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: MCI hit with encryption virus [CNN]
Message-ID: <199812221331.HAA06688@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> X-within-URL: http://cnnfn.com/digitaljam/9812/21/virus_pkg/

>    From Correspondent Bruce Francis
>    December 21, 1998: 7:56 p.m. ET

>    July 30, 1998 Network Associates MCI WorldCom More Quotes.... Network
>    Associates Anti-virus Research Center   NEW YORK (CNNfn) - Employees
>    at MCI WorldCom were confronted with a science fiction scenario made
>    cold fact on Monday when a computer virus struck the company's
>    sprawling network, encrypting and destroying files.
>    [INLINE] To make things worse, virus consultants Network Associates
>    (NETA) say that the virus -- called "Remote Explorer" -- is unlike
>    any other and may be the smartest, most dangerous computer bug to
>    date.

[text deleted]


    ____________________________________________________________________

          What raises the standard of living may well diminish the
          quality of life.

                                                 The Club of Rome

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: FitugMix 
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 17:17:32 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: distribution scheme
Message-ID: <199812220853.JAA16038@jengate.thur.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I'd like to request your comments on the following idea. code for this is ready, awaiting yours and some other people's comments regarding some of the non-coding issues.
for example, I'd like a lawyer or someone else familiar with the law to comment on the legal aspects. also, cryptologic
expertise would be great. however, this is NOT an encryption scheme. the goals are different ones, I'll talk about that in a second.

the basic idea is to take a piece of information and chop it into a number of pieces. this is basically the reverse process of "take the first letter of every word".
digital information, however, can be divided at an even lower level, the bit level. imagine to chop a file into 8 parts, with the top bit of every byte going into the first
file, the second bit into the second and so on. as you can imagine, the first 8 top-bits will again form a byte in the first file.
now imagine the same principle, with an *arbitrary* number of files.

the goal of this is not a new encryption scheme. cryptological, my limited knowledge tells me this is not too bad, but far from "secure". the nice things are that the files
themselves contain no information about how many total files there are and in which order they have to be re-assembled, and without that knowledge you are in for some
work of cryptoanalysis.
the idea is to provide for a channel of distribution of arbitrary material, even copyrighted, patented or illegal in your country (e.g. china) in a "legal" way. that's why
I'd like legal advice on this - is the idea correct? I cannot be sued for distributing a couple hundred E's and A's because they are part of a copyrighted book. can
I be sued for distributing a couple of bits from a copyrighted image file? a trademarked or patented document? are there any legal precedents? I know that in the case
of encryption, courts have at least once ruled that distribution of the key that unlocks this is equivalent to distribution of the copyrighted material, but in this case
there is no key, no single piece of information that contains anything "central".

tell me what you think. I can post code or details if you want.



Falcon





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 03:14:18 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: politically correct bomb graffiti
In-Reply-To: <199812221723.SAA13248@replay.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 9:23 AM -0800 12/22/98, Anonymous wrote:

> Pentagon Decries U.S. Bomb Graffiti
>Tuesday, December 22, 1998; 1:24 a.m. EST
>

>The bomb bore several inscriptions, including one that said, ``Here's a
>Ramadan present from Chad Rickenberg.''
>
>``Department of Defense officials were distressed to learn of thoughtless
>graffiti mentioning the holy month of Ramadan written on a piece of U.S.
>ordnance during Operation Desert Fox'' in Iraq, chief Pentagon spokesman
>Kenneth Bacon said in a statement.


But of course. How else could it be?

It is OK to kill people, but not OK to hurt their feelings.


(BTW, the military has bowed to pressures from Jesse Jackson and the
Rainbow Coalition. "Black Operations" have been renamed "Operations of
Color.")

--Tim May

We would go to their homes, and we'd kill their wives and
their children. We would kill their families
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "X" 
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 02:44:17 +0800
To: "Anonymous" 
Subject: RE: politically correct bomb graffiti
In-Reply-To: <199812221723.SAA13248@replay.com>
Message-ID: <000701be2dd4$89fb0a40$03000004@ibm>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



~>  Pentagon Decries U.S. Bomb Graffiti
~> Tuesday, December 22, 1998; 1:24 a.m. EST
~>
~> WASHINGTON (AP) -- Defense Department officials said Monday they were
~> distressed about ``thoughtless graffiti'' referring to the Islamic holy
~> month of Ramadan on a Navy bomb being prepared for dropping on Iraq.

What's the 90's PC war cry?  Go ahead and nuke 'em, just don't be
insensitive about it.

How much will it cost U.S. taxpayers when the US Navy and Pentagon duke it
out over freedom of religion vs. freedom of speech?

I personally am offended by grey, so I'll kindly request that any bombs
thrown at me be painted in a primary color.  Anyone else?

X




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Gillogly 
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 03:22:11 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: RE: politically correct bomb graffiti
Message-ID: <367FEC2E.DC94D311@acm.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



~> WASHINGTON (AP) -- Defense Department officials said Monday they were
~> distressed about ``thoughtless graffiti'' referring to the Islamic holy
~> month of Ramadan on a Navy bomb being prepared for dropping on Iraq.

xasper8d writes:
> What's the 90's PC war cry?  Go ahead and nuke 'em, just don't be
> insensitive about it.

While I also would be more offended by someone bombing me into a
thin film of viscera and connective tissue than by having them
ridicule my beliefs, I think the Pentagon was more concerned about
the effect on our allies in the Gulf.  The recent bombing was an
attack against the Iraqi military and leadership rather than on
Islam, and having that graffito get big airplay could offend other
countries that we'd prefer not to offend.  So while they looked
silly complaining about the Ramadan reference, they'd have looked
worse if they'd passed it off with a shrug and/or another ethnic
or religious slur.

There is of course a long tradition of personalizing ordnance; ISTR
that the bomb in Dr. Strangelove had more of a message than just its
megatonnage.
-- 
	Jim Gillogly
	Sterday, 2 Yule S.R. 1999, 18:50
	12.19.5.14.5, 11 Chicchan 18 Mac, Sixth Lord of Night




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jukka E Isosaari 
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 18:16:16 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: The long, strong arm of the NSA (fwd)
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



http://cnn.com/TECH/computing/9807/27/security.idg/index.html

The long, strong arm of the NSA 

July 27, 1998
Web posted at: 4:15 PM EDT 

by Ellen Messmer 


FORT MEADE, Maryland (IDG) -- Back in the days of the cold war, Washington
insiders used to joke that NSA stood for "No Such Agency."  The government
denied the very existence of this group, which is dedicated to intercepting
and decoding foreign communications.

That was then. Today the National Security Agency is well known, and spends
a lot of time leaning on software, switch and router vendors, pushing them
to re-tool their products. The agency's goal: to ensure that the government
has access to encrypted data.

The industry is facing a year-end deadline to add a government-approved
back door into network gear. Vendors that don't provide this access risk
losing export privileges.

Cruising up and down Silicon Valley, NSA spooks from the agency's Fort
Meade headquarters have been making pit stops at companies ranging from
industry leaders Netscape Communications Corp. and Sun Microsystems, Inc.
to start-ups such as VPNet Technologies, Inc. in order to get a peek at
products still on the drawing board.

The NSA wants software vendors to make sure that any product with strong
encryption have some way for the government to tap into the data. And
because practically every commercial network application, router or switch
these days includes encryption or an option for it, almost every vendor now
has to answer to the NSA if it wants to export. 

Hot line to the NSA

It's gotten to the point where no vendor hip to the NSA's power will even
start building products without checking in with Fort Meade first. This
includes even that supposed ruler of the software universe, Microsoft Corp.
"It's inevitable that you design products with specific [encryption]
algorithms and key lengths in mind," said Ira Rubenstein, Microsoft
attorney and a top lieutenant to Bill Gates. By his own account, Rubenstein
acts as a "filter" between the NSA and Microsoft's design teams in Redmond,
Wash. "Any time that you're developing a new product, you will be working
closely with the NSA," he noted.

When it comes to encryption, it's widely known that a 40-bit encryption key
is easily breakable and hence rather useless. Until not long ago, this is
what the U.S. government allowed for the export of software. 

But the Clinton administration a year and a half ago said it would allow
the export of products with stronger encryption keys by any vendor that
agreed to add a "key-recovery" feature to its products by year-end - giving
the government access to encrypted data without the end user's knowledge.

According to Bill Reinsche, Department of Commerce undersecretary for the
Bureau of Export Controls, about 50 vendors have submitted plans for
government-approved key-recovery, also called data-recovery. These
companies, which include IBM, were rewarded with Key Management
Infrastructure (KMI) export licenses to export products with 56-bit or
stronger encryption until year-end.

But some companies are discovering that dealing with the Commerce
Department for a KMI license means more involvement with the NSA.

The Bureau of Export Control is actually just a front for the NSA, said
Alison Giacomelli, director of export compliance at VPNet Technologies,
Inc., a San Jose, Calif.-based vendor of IP-based encryption gateways. 
"The NSA has sign-off authority on these KMI licenses," Giacomelli said. 
In return for the KMI license, VPNet opened itself up for an NSA audit.

"They've already come out once, and they'll be coming out again,"
Giacomelli said. VPNet remains committed to meeting the deadline for adding
key-recovery to its product but has one major problem:  uncertainty about
what the NSA really wants. The confusion means "there's a lot of risk . . .
in terms of engineering and resources," Giacomelli said.

Clearly wary of granting the government supervision over its products,
Microsoft has stubbornly refused to submit a data-recovery plan, even
though the Redmond giant already includes a data-recovery feature in its
Exchange Server. 

"The Exchange Server can only be used when this feature is present," 
Rubenstein said. "Because we haven't filed a product plan, it's harder for
us to export this than for companies that have filed plans."

But in an odd-couple sort of joint-partner arrangement, Microsoft and the
NSA did work together to build what's called Server Gated Cryptography.
Primarily intended to help banks use Web servers to do business
internationally, the technology lets a server with a special digital
certificate provide 128-bit encryption support to a Web browser outside the
U.S.

Sybase, Inc., which also submitted a plan to add key-recovery to its
products, found it hard to satisfy the government's demands. "They approved
our technological approach but disapproved each of our applications with
it," said Sybase President and CEO Mitchell Kertzman. "It's been
frustrating."

Documents recently obtained under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) by
the Washington, D.C.-based Electronic Privacy Information Center contain
the data-recovery plan Netscape filed at the Commerce Department last year.

Netscape's plan explains that the "escrow of private encryption keys" could
be achieved by developing client and server products that can only issue an
X.509 digital certificate after the private key has been escrowed. The key
can only be held by an entity chosen by the intranet administrator who
handles security policy.

The Netscape plan called for introducing a certificate server with recovery
capabilities in the first quarter of this year, with the introduction of
S/MIME clients with basic recovery features in the second quarter.

Netscape hasn't actually carried out this plan, and the company declined to
discuss it. Netscape attorney Peter Harter would only say officially, "We
had no choice but to submit the plan, no matter how much we opposed
key-escrow, in order to be part of the ongoing dialog."

Other FOIA documents show that Netscape was regularly briefing the NSA on
its product plans since 1996 and that then NSA Deputy Director William
Crowell took a special interest in trying to dissuade Netscape from using
strong encryption.

Crowell, now vice president for product marketing and strategy at Cylink
Corp., said he had frequent discussions with Netscape, especially
concerning changes to Netscape Navigator. "Their product didn't have a
separate signature key, so if the government used the product for
key-escrow later, you'd have to store the signature key with a third party,
which we thought was a bad idea," Crowell said.  He added that Netscape
Navigator 3.0 adopted the changes the NSA wanted.

According to Crowell, the NSA has a great deal of expertise in securing
communications, and it wants to ensure that products bought by the Defense
Department meet NSA standards. "In addition, as part of the NSA's
intelligence mission, [the agency needs] to have a thorough understanding
of where commercial products are headed."

Taher Elgamal, author of the Netscape data-recovery plan, who recently left
Netscape to start his own venture, said Netscape had no choice but to
maintain constant contact with the NSA. "They're costing the industry a lot
of money,"  Elgamal said. 

Others agree. "Everyone in Silicon Valley, including us, has to have
specific staff - highly paid experts - to deal with them," said Chris
Tolles, security group product manager at Sun. "Their job is to wrangle
this from a policy standpoint."

Sun has had run-ins with the NSA in the past. Two years ago, the NSA
objected to Sun including encryption in the exportable version of Java 1.1.
The end result was that Sun stripped encryption out of Java 1.1 and the
software was delayed by about six months. Related stories: 

 Hole in Internet security discovered - June 30, 1998

 Government restrictions on encryption pose obstacles
 for Internet security - May 18, 1998






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ian Grigg 
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 00:26:20 +0800
To: iang@systemics.com
Subject: Re: alternative b-money creation
In-Reply-To: <199812140427.AA12697@world.std.com>
Message-ID: <199812221528.LAA05757@systemics.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




> What about near money, e.g., S&H Green Stamps,
> frequent flier miles, Toys R Us Bucks, or anything
> else that can only be used reflexively with the
> issuer?

Near money is something that many people hold out hope for,
and you may all be right, in that it may be the way forward
through the morass of difficulties.  I personally don't think
so, not for any killer reason, but for a whole host of little
reasons.  I'll see if I can't enunciate them, and no doubt
within the session you are running, we'll have some lively
discussions.

> In the Depression, many southern manufacturing
> firms and, so far as my relatives tell, 100% of
> the coal mining outfits, paid in scrip which was
> redeemable only at the company store.  Some of my
> Mother's people worked at the phone company and
> converted their scrip to stock since they judged
> it worthless otherwise.

This is the Hiawatha Hours, as I rudely called them
(I keep forgetting the name, sorry).  Now, these are
working systems.  They are more or less the same as
the LETS systems, which are sort of successful in many
hundreds of places.

Where they work is generally an indication of some
shortage.  With the above systems, and as far as I
can tell, with all systems, there is a shortage of
cash.  It is not just that everyone is poor, but
that the cycle of money in its journey from entity
to entity throughout the economy is broken.  In
contrast to this shortage and cyclic failure, demand
and supply for goods and services remain high, at
least in many sectors.

In this case, anything that is injected can conceivably
bootstrap the cycle again, and this is why, IMHO, the many
different range of instruments all appear to have been
successful.  It is not the instrument, but the presence
of an instrument.

One thing to remember is that the local economy is
generally the larger proportion of the total economy.
I have empirically noted that in most towns with
identifiable export industries, there are 3 people
employed elsewhere for every one within the direct
export sector - this is a reflection that most people
are actually supporting the rest.  (However, this
doesn't take into account the import side of the
equation.)

Under such circumstances, it is no real wonder that
a shortage of money will cause an economy to grind
to a halt, and an injection of money will start it
up again - to the extent that import/export permits.

But bear in mind that this is a competitive scenario,
and the scrip money tends to work well when the statal
currency disappeared as in the Depression.  When the
statal money comes back in, the scrip fails to entice,
because it is only useful by definition for local
products, not imported products.  In that scenario
it is dominated (to use the term) by statal currency.

> You can buy FF miles at
> 2c/mile at both the Delta and AA websites and US
> Air FF miles now exchange 1-for-1 with AA FF
> miles.  Every affinity program in the country
> offers dollar denominated discounts at the home
> issuing location.

Yes, one of the huge barriers to any money system
is the border to any other money system.  At this
border, the change costs are a very important limiter
on the success of the system.  Remember that a merchant
must convert to useful money in order to pay his costs,
so a small system cannot really work without an internal
method of spending money, to offset that.  This is the
real reason why countries have money, because they have
a border that defines a naturally sized unit.

With MTB ecash, this became very apparent when merchants
had to extract their cash at somewhere between 2 and 5
percent, thus putting the lie to the notion of cash.
With FF miles, they alleviate this somewhat by
recasting the situation as a loyalty programme,
and thus you use the internal goods.  So it only
works when you are a regular user.

Adding convertability makes it closer to money.  But
there is one killer that will never make it be accepted
as a dominating form of money.  All loyalty programmes are
calculated on the basis of this actually accruing
value to the provider, rather than the other way
around.  Necessarily, this means the user is paying
for the priviledge of being loyal.

This is done three ways.  Firstly, most successful loyalty
programmes such as FF miles are based on goods with a
low marginal cost but high ticket cost.  To the airline,
it costs the price of a seat which is somewhere around
$30.  To you, you believe that you are getting, say, $200
value (for points marked as $200 for example).  Within
that range, the airline wins.

Secondly, on average, FF miles are not actually used up
beyond a benchmark figure of 30%.  Airlines also have a
number of tricks that use up or block the use of points.

Thirdly, FF miles work best when the individual is
consuming, but the company is paying.  What FF miles
are is essentially a bribe to the business traveller
to insist on using their airline, when the traveller
doesn't otherwise care.  This separation of user from
payer is cunning marketing, something that is employed
by all the best companies (IBM were the past masters,
now the crown has passed to M$.  Odd that computing
displays this domination amongst all industries...).

Now, regardless of all this, you are right that these
systems take on the nature of money if people suffer
all these things and then continue to participate.
What can stop these becoming real useful is several
things: people working out that they are regularly
over paying, taxation departments working out that
the business traveller is taking an untaxed benefit,
and various other hurdles.

If you can manage to navigate that particular river
stretch of crocs and snakes, then you might make
money, to stretch a pun.  However, if you are going
to all that trouble, why not just start a real money?
That's my real thesis.

> I can get a tax deduction for
> turning in some of these sorts of things to, say,
> the Make A Wish Foundation.

Well, not sure what to say about giving away your
overpaid loyalty points.  That makes for two charities,
the Foundation and the Airline.

> My university co-op
> gives rebates based on purchase volume and in
> cash, but there is no attempt to verify that the
> purchaser is really the account holder if that
> holder pays in cash.

Oh, anonymity/untraceability/bearer status might be
useful features, but that is only what they are, features.  
If our objective is to invent one with those features
as requirement, then I think you will find a single
purpose, centralised registry, poor convertability
system as a really bad starting point.

>  For the longest time,
> stamps could be used in place of coin for small
> denomination mail order.

Single system.  Why did they stop?

> Until security worries
> required a named passenger, shuttle tickets
> between Boston and NYC might as well have been
> cash.

We know why these have been stopped.  For precisely
reasons similar to the elimination of unknown activity,
including monetary activity.  Add this to the list of
disadvantages of near money.

> The Mass State Legislature only this past
> week considered a bill that would make used
> (non-winning) lottery tickets have a residual
> cash value useful only at lottery agents (this as
> an anti-litter thing).

Ah, so this will be very interesting.  So will there
be an arbitrary limit placed on there to stop them
being used as cash?  Remember that cash itself dominates
if you can more easily use cash rather than a handful
of used lottery tickets.

> My thinking -- enough near money and it will tend
> to convertibility...

Yes, that I agree with.  But I fall short of saying
that it reaches a useful level of convertibility.

Looking forward to our loyalty systems session in
March!  Actually, I should mention that whilst I
do not favour these systems for the above reasons,
I do believe that in the study of them, we better
understand how money works, much more so than if
we were to simply study money, which is so completely
lost in statal marketing these days as to be
unfathomable in isolation.

iang




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 04:14:01 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: RE: politically correct bomb graffiti
In-Reply-To: <367FEC2E.DC94D311@acm.org>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 10:59 AM -0800 12/22/98, Jim Gillogly wrote:
>~> WASHINGTON (AP) -- Defense Department officials said Monday they were
>~> distressed about ``thoughtless graffiti'' referring to the Islamic holy
>~> month of Ramadan on a Navy bomb being prepared for dropping on Iraq.
>
>xasper8d writes:
>> What's the 90's PC war cry?  Go ahead and nuke 'em, just don't be
>> insensitive about it.
>
>While I also would be more offended by someone bombing me into a
>thin film of viscera and connective tissue than by having them
>ridicule my beliefs, I think the Pentagon was more concerned about
>the effect on our allies in the Gulf.  The recent bombing was an
>attack against the Iraqi military and leadership rather than on
>Islam, and having that graffito get big airplay could offend other
>countries that we'd prefer not to offend.  So while they looked
>silly complaining about the Ramadan reference, they'd have looked
>worse if they'd passed it off with a shrug and/or another ethnic
>or religious slur.

We bombed during "Bombadan" to send the ragheads a message. I thought this
was obvious to all.

--Tim May

We would go to their homes, and we'd kill their wives and
their children. We would kill their families
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 02:44:24 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: Trust in Cyberspace
Message-ID: <199812221816.NAA22485@smtp0.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



We offer the National Academy of Sciences September
1998 report, "Trust in Cyberspace," a 243-page survey
of all security issues and technologies associated with the 
Internet and computer networks:

   http://jya.com/tic-intro.htm  (Introduction only, 58K)

   http://jya.com/tic.htm  (Full report, 882K)

   http://jya.com/tic.zip  (Full report zipped, 302K)

The report reviews prior studies such as the CRISIS report
on cryptography, the PCCIP report on protecting US
infrastructure, the DoD report on Information Warfare -
Defense, and several others, assesses those findings
in greater depth, looks at technology and research
needed, and recommends what government (NSA and
DARPA) and private industry/eduation should do to
assure security.

NSA is upbraided for its opposition to strong cryptography 
and culture of overcontrolling secrecy. NSA's R2 research 
unit is singled out as needing to find ways to compete with 
industry for the best talent so that the agency's skills and 
tools do not lag the world market.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Max Inux 
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 03:03:00 +0800
To: Multiple recipients of list 
Subject: [mitnick] on another note .. (fwd)
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



No introduction needed...

--Max

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 17:25:40 +0100
X-Loop: openpgp.net
From: Tor Fosheim 
Reply-To: mitnick@2600.com
To: mitnick@2600.com
Subject: [mitnick] on another note ..

The Highest court in Norway has freed a computer engineer from Norman Data
Defense Systems from charges relating to a computer break-in at the
University of Oslo in 1995. It acknowledged the fact that he broke in
through a security hole, but said it was not illegal for him to do so.

The court said that anyone who makes their computers available on the
internet should be prepared for the machines to accept "requests for
information contained on it". Ie, if its not protected well enough -- its
the owner of the machine who is to blame.

Tor





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ian Moya 
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 03:06:07 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: Re: MCI hit with encryption virus [CNN] (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199812221332.HAA06736@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <199812221943.NAA08478@www.navigo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Anyone else find it interesting that the release for this outside of NAI press release was at CNN/fn and not CNN's tech section?  The stock shot up 6 and 3/8 on the 
news.  Pretty nice Christmas bonus to say the least.

Couple other more timely and detailed notes on the event:

http://www.ilhawaii.net/webnews/wed/aq/Nd55_38.html
http://www.ilhawaii.net/webnews/wed/dm/Nd55_51.html

Also a local TV station (Austin) on the 5pm news last night had some official
working on this fiasco quoted as saying that this was the first large case of
"cyberterrorism" that he had encountered.  I hope the national media doesn't 
start goose stepping to that account things; otherwise, expect this and related 
events to be cited by CIAO and other gubment offices in their initiatives next year 
to round up network incident response teams nationally and globally.

http://www.ciao.gov/
http://www.pccip.gov/

moya

--
a Navigo farmer
 Have an  New Millenium- 
 
 

> Forwarded message:
> >From owner-cypherpunks@ssz.com Tue Dec 22 07:32:13 1998
> From: Jim Choate 
> Subject: MCI hit with encryption virus [CNN]
> To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
> Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 07:31:11 -0600 (CST)
> 
> > X-within-URL: http://cnnfn.com/digitaljam/9812/21/virus_pkg/
> 
> >    From Correspondent Bruce Francis
> >    December 21, 1998: 7:56 p.m. ET
> 
> >    July 30, 1998 Network Associates MCI WorldCom More Quotes.... Network
> >    Associates Anti-virus Research Center   NEW YORK (CNNfn) - Employees
> >    at MCI WorldCom were confronted with a science fiction scenario made
> >    cold fact on Monday when a computer virus struck the company's
> >    sprawling network, encrypting and destroying files.
> >    [INLINE] To make things worse, virus consultants Network Associates
> >    (NETA) say that the virus -- called "Remote Explorer" -- is unlike
> >    any other and may be the smartest, most dangerous computer bug to
> >    date.
> 
> [text deleted]




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Missouri FreeNet Administration 
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 04:55:26 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Returned post for press-english-technical@lists.datafellows.com (fwd)
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

They are using the EzMLM Pgm???  What does *that* tell you???

Yours, 
J.A. Terranson
sysadmin@mfn.org

--
If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they
should give serious consideration towards setting a better example:
Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of
unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in
the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and 
elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire
populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate...
This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States
as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers,
associates, or others.  Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of
those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the
first place...
--------------------------------------------------------------------


---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: 22 Dec 1998 15:51:33 -0000
From: press-english-technical-help@lists.datafellows.com
To: measl@mfn.org
Subject: Returned post for press-english-technical@lists.datafellows.com

Hi! This is the ezmlm program. I'm managing the
press-english-technical@lists.datafellows.com mailing list.

I'm sorry, the list moderators have failed to act on your post.
Thus, I'm returning it to you. If you feel that this is in error,
please repost the message or contact a list moderator directly.

--- Enclosed, please find the message you sent.



To: cypherpunks@toad.com,       Marita Nasman-Repo ,       pirkka.palomaki@DataFellows.com, ari.hypponen@DataFellows.com
Subject: Re: MEDIA RELEASE: Data Fellows Joins the Microsoft Security  Partners Program
From: Missouri FreeNet Administration 
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 12:23:32 -0600 (CST)
cc: press-pr@lists.datafellows.com, df-pr-us@lists.datafellows.com,       press-english-technical@lists.datafellows.com,       press-english-general@lists.datafellows.com
Delivered-To: moderator for press-english-technical@lists.datafellows.com
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19981215170136.0098ad60@smtp.datafellows.com>
Posted-Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 12:23:32 -0600 (CST)

On Tue, 15 Dec 1998, Marita Nasman-Repo Blathered:

:Helsinki, Finland, December 15, 1998-- Data Fellows, the global leader in
:developing data security software solutions, has been invited to join the
:Microsoft Security Partners Program.
"Invited"?   You mean they finally accepted your application, right?

:The Microsoft Security Partners Program
:(http://www.microsoft.com/security/partners) provides customers with the
:tools and information they need to establish, test and maintain effective
:information security for their computing infrastructure. 
By providing real-life examples of how NOT to implement security
practices.  By simply purchasing these failed products (at only *slightly*
exhorbitant prices), so can learn by example: see for yourself just how
easy it is to completely botch a security directive.  Witness how
thoroughly you can mangle password encryption.  Learn what major design
flaws *really* look like!

:The program brings
:together software manufacturers, security consultants and security
:trainers, making it even easier for customers to provide robust security in
:their Microsoft Windows NT operating system-based networks.
Just as soon as it becomes available?  Oh, BTW, when *will* that be???

:Three Data Fellows products are included in the Microsoft Security Partners
:Program. 
I'm sorry.  But don't worry, if you keep working on it, you'll be able to
sell it to a *real* vendor someday...

:F-Secure Workstation Suite consists of malicious code detection
:and removal as well as unobtrusive file and network encryption,
Very unobtrusive, I'm sure!  Does the attacker even know it's there?

: all
:integrated into a policy-based management architecture. 
Hmmm... Somebody's been playing with their buzzword-generator again :)

:F-Secure VPN+
:provides a software-based, IPSec/IKE VPN solution scaleable for large
:corporate networks as well as remote and small office networks.
Was that IPSec/IKE, or IPSec-like?  I vote for the latter.  It's just like
IPSec, but without wasting all those nasty cycles on dumb things - like
encryption: it's *so much* more user-friendly when it doesnt [further]
slow the speed of new window open/closes...

: F-Secure
:FileCrypto is the first and only product to integrate strong real-time
:encryption directly into the Windows NT-based file system.
Could be, we already know that Micro$loth has *no clue* when it comes to
these things (Right Paul???)...

:"Microsoft is pleased to include Data Fellows as part of its Security
:Partners Program," said Karan Khanna, Windows NT Security Product Manager
:at Microsoft Corp.
Of course you are.  Micro$loth would be pleased to welcome Joseph Stalin
into the Security Partners Program.

: "This program will help our mutual customers develop and
:deploy secure solutions built on the Windows NT platform."
Just as soon as they can get Windows NT to run faster than a 6809 with 1k
of 512ns RAM and a single parallel port for IO ;-)

:"The relationship with Microsoft shows Data Fellows' commitment to improve
:the native security of standalone and networked computers with a
:comprehensive, centrally managed suite of security services," said Risto
:Siilasmaa, president and CEO of Data Fellows. 
You're *that* worried about Micro$loth's current offerings, huh?
Personally, I'd let them fend for themselves, but...

:"Data Fellows is committed to
:providing globally available 
And this *IS* your *FIRST* priority, isn't it?

:seamless security for Windows users; security
:that is strong yet easy to manage and economical."
Great!  Let me know when it's available!

:Data Fellows is one of the world's leading developers of data security
:products.
Really?  Who decided that?  Do you have any research to back up this
awe-inspiring claim?

: The company develops, markets and supports anti-virus, data
:security and cryptography software products for corporate computer
:networks.
That's only because most of the private networks already know better.


Yours, 
J.A. Terranson
sysadmin@mfn.org

--
If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they
should give serious consideration towards setting a better example:
Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of
unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in
the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and 
elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire
populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate...
This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States
as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers,
associates, or others.  Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of
those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the
first place...
--------------------------------------------------------------------








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Missouri FreeNet Administration 
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 04:47:38 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Graffitti or National Policy?
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




	HEY, REEZA!  ARE YOU *LISTENING* ???
-----
 Pentagon Decries U.S. Bomb Graffiti 
Tuesday, December 22, 1998; 1:24 a.m. EST

::WASHINGTON (AP) -- Defense Department officials said Monday they were
::distressed about ``thoughtless graffiti'' referring to the Islamic holy
::month of Ramadan on a Navy bomb being prepared for dropping on Iraq. 

Next time, the CIC demands that you put *more* thought into it...

::The Associated Press last Saturday transmitted a photograph of a
::2,000-pound laser-guided bomb on the aircraft carrier USS Enterprise in
::the Persian Gulf waiting to be loaded on F-14 and F-18 jet fighters. 

Of course, they didn't mind the *bomb* being televised, only the
graffitti :-/

::The bomb bore several inscriptions, including one that said, ``Here's a
::Ramadan present from Chad Rickenberg.'' 

Reeza, why wasn't *your* Ramadan Missive there?

::``Department of Defense officials were distressed to learn of
::thoughtless graffiti mentioning the holy month of Ramadan written on a
::piece of U.S. ordnance during Operation Desert Fox'' in Iraq, chief
::Pentagon spokesman Kenneth Bacon said in a statement. 

Yeah, it's perfectly OK to bomb them during Ramadan (for their own good of
course), but not to actually *acknowledge* it...

::``Religious intolerance is an anathema to Secretary of Defense
::William S. Cohen and to all Americans who cherish the right to worship
::freely,'' he added.

Unless you 
	(a) happen to be Arabic [aside: The odds that an Arabic male
	is depicted as dirty, bad, untrustworthy, etc, in any motion pic
	emanating from the US? A: 19 in 20 {harpers}]
	(b) happen to live in any territory currently occupied by any
	puppet of the USG (Israel comes immediately to mind, but lets face
	it, there's plenty of others), 
	(c) don't agree with every single thing the USG/POTUS has done for
	the last 200++ years...

:: ``The United States deeply respects Islam. We are grateful for
::our good relations with Arab and Islamic peoples,

We are especially grateful that they so freely allow us to bomb their men
women and children whenever we get bored or involved in any domestic issue
that might embarrass the USG/POTUS/IRS/NSA/etc...  Or when we aren't sure
that a new weapon technology is actually "Ready For Prime Time"...

:: and we appreciate the
::important contributions of Muslim-Americans to the U.S. military and to
::our nation as a whole. 

See above :-/

::``I know our people in uniform respect and appreciate religious
::practices different from their own.

Exactly!  What Mr. Rickenberg *meant* to say was "Merry Christmas", right?

:: This incident is a rare exception that does not
:: reflect American policy or values.'' 

The bombing/starving/massacring of innocent civilians, or the graffitti
that didn't have enough thought in it?

Isn't it amazing how the military hates having their laundry aired in
public??? 


Yours, 
J.A. Terranson
sysadmin@mfn.org

--
If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they
should give serious consideration towards setting a better example:
Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of
unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in
the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and 
elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire
populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate...
This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States
as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers,
associates, or others.  Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of
those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the
first place...
--------------------------------------------------------------------







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Missouri FreeNet Administration 
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 05:04:04 +0800
To: Reeza! 
Subject: Re: I must admit. . .
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981222230204.03b51100@205.83.192.13>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




On Tue, 22 Dec 1998, Reeza! blathered thusly:
:>*WHY* is it any of our business whether he owns weapons of *any* kind?  WE
:>own them, and we USE them: Does this give other nations the right to
:>embargo us, and to bomb us into oblivion if we refuse to allow THEM to
:>tell US what to do?
:>
:>Our concern for his weaponry should only be an issue *IF* he uses them, as
:>with *OUR* weaponry.  Yours is the classical anti-gun argument, and it's
:>no more effective at the international level than at the state level.
:
:This would be a valid argument, if he had not already sanctioned Kuwait.
:OOPS. Did you forget that?

Hrmm... And we have never "sanctioned" (gotta love those innocuous
euphemisms) any soveriegn State?  What good for the goose is not good for
the gander?  I repeat, *what gives us the RIGHT* to determine his weaponry
or lack thereof?

:Your arguments would be better applied to Somalia and Bosnia than they are
:to Iraq. Our presence in those countries was of a slightly different
:character than it is in Iraq now isn't it???
Yes indeed.  In these two countries we were there only to watch over the
slaughter, not to perpetuate it ourselves.  Mustv'e ruined your Military
Day (tm), huh Reeza?

:>:Reeza!
:>:DH Key available on request
:>Note that your DH Key is a "munition"...  Shouldn't you be "qualified" to
:>have it by the USG - strictly for the safety of the world, of course...
:>
:>Yours, 
:>J.A. Terranson
:>sysadmin@mfn.org
:
:well J.A., my DH Key is just as much a "munition" as my house key, legal
:definitions not-withstanding.

I see the law means much to you.  This why you joined the military? Or is
it that they wouldn't take you over at James Bond School?

:The affairs of Men rarely rely on the dictates of logic, or even common sense.
:
:
:	"Yeah, they mostly rely on something below the belt."
:
:				-- my older sister

She must've heard your "Eat my military shorts" comment...


Yours, 
J.A. Terranson
sysadmin@mfn.org

--
If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they
should give serious consideration towards setting a better example:
Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of
unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in
the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and 
elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire
populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate...
This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States
as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers,
associates, or others.  Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of
those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the
first place...
--------------------------------------------------------------------






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 04:14:03 +0800
To: geer@world.std.com
Subject: Re: alternative b-money creation
In-Reply-To: <199812140427.AA12697@world.std.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 10:28 AM -0500 on 12/22/98, Ian Grigg wrote:


> This is the Hiawatha Hours, as I rudely called them
> (I keep forgetting the name, sorry).  Now, these are
> working systems.  They are more or less the same as
> the LETS systems, which are sort of successful in many
> hundreds of places.

Ithaca Hours. They like LETS, are based, more or less, on Marx's "Labor
Theory of Value".

'nuff said, I figure. Stupid is as stupid does, to quote a famous Alabaman...

:-).

Cheers,
RAH


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 04:53:11 +0800
To: Anonymous 
Message-ID: <199812222020.MAA26845@smtp.well.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Guess folks in WWII shouldn't have been calling the enemy "Krauts."

Now it's okay to slaughter Iraqis -- but we can't make fun of them.

These are odd times.

-Declan


At 06:23 PM 12-22-98 +0100, Anonymous wrote:
>..way too amusing..
>
>
> Pentagon Decries U.S. Bomb Graffiti 
>Tuesday, December 22, 1998; 1:24 a.m. EST
>
>WASHINGTON (AP) -- Defense Department officials said Monday they were
>distressed about ``thoughtless graffiti'' referring to the Islamic holy
>month of Ramadan on a Navy bomb being prepared for dropping on Iraq. 
>
>The Associated Press last Saturday transmitted a photograph of a
>2,000-pound laser-guided bomb on the aircraft carrier USS Enterprise in the
>Persian Gulf waiting to be loaded on F-14 and F-18 jet fighters. 
>
>The bomb bore several inscriptions, including one that said, ``Here's a
>Ramadan present from Chad Rickenberg.'' 
>
>``Department of Defense officials were distressed to learn of thoughtless
>graffiti mentioning the holy month of Ramadan written on a piece of U.S.
>ordnance during Operation Desert Fox'' in Iraq, chief Pentagon spokesman
>Kenneth Bacon said in a statement. 
>
>``Religious intolerance is an anathema to Secretary of Defense William S.
>Cohen and to all Americans who cherish the right to worship freely,'' he
>added. ``The United States deeply respects Islam. We are grateful for our
>good relations with Arab and Islamic peoples, and we appreciate the
>important contributions of Muslim-Americans to the U.S. military and to our
>nation as a whole. 
>
>``I know our people in uniform respect and appreciate religious practices
>different from their own. This incident is a rare exception that does not
>reflect American policy or values.'' 
> 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: vdomingo@medialabs.es (Victor Domingo - MediaLabs Comunicacion)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 01:08:00 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: Felices Fiestas
Message-ID: <19981222171922.AAA13596@challenge.medialabs.es@mail.medialabs.es>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary..3999.1071713823.multipart/mixed"

--Boundary..3999.1071713823.multipart/mixed
Content-Type: text/plain
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Con mis mejores deseos de Felicidad y Prosperidad para el Ańo Nuevo.


Víctor Domingo.

Archivo Adjunto idea de mi amigo  Antonio Montorio (http://villanos.net)
_____________________
MediaLabs SuperMailer 2.5
http:\\www.medialabs.es\supermailer





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qngaiDJRpBSaqvgYT3GnNuTJXiJRqFyJCGgYjC8QAXXnWz+getiJgTKAqrB6
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FQR6RwjsKXsAUITO2q7zd3buGq9cKBDkNm1+CEuqZ5yyB3tXCq4BGnswAAMu
8ACa6agTEKkWMAGamghoOIEV6Ibo5yzsGq8UW7EWe4c/h5Li9QNdB4y9OJHG
6a8VGIyLR5FWt5wgEACVOAAY+KsX+7IwG7PUuakiKnslYJzIya2VmJEsm5+w
95sUeaU225glgJnySZzrKK4yu7RM27SxqHe+6LDo9wAs+wIB8IOiKqr6yXcy
OrK/iX4zeqX6OrQAQJZOe7Zom7bUFgSb2nWeiqUYOLCTqYF+l7V1G15725qB
vhl+E6CWavu3gBu4CmauApBynsp3icqrljiZfhd+BaCjghu5kju5xRUEwcqY
kXe4lLm5lOkBMpqZjmoBfku5pFu6putblmsBDmAABYAIrUsIBjABKxAEdhgI
ADs=
--Boundary..3999.1071713823.multipart/mixed--



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 23:47:11 +0800
To: Reeza! 
Subject: Re: I must admit. . .
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





If ANTHRAX recipes are so easily obtainable, if it is so easy to make, so
easy to disseminate, and public knowledge to boot, POST IT HERE, POST IT
HERE.

24 hour time limit, IF IT IS EASY, You shouldn't have any trouble making
the deadline now should you? And none of that "I don't want to give away
inappropriate information" pussy shit. It is wholly relevant, not
inappropriate, and will MAKE ME APOLOGIZE TO YOU AND THE LIST.

DO IT. DO IT. DO IT,

http://www.hiphopmusic.com/anthrax.html

(apologoes if the quoting on this isn't quite right).
"The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so
let us tie the second down with the chains of the constitution so the
second will not become the legalized version of the first."
Thos. Jefferson					petro@playboy.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 01:53:50 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: politically correct bomb graffiti
Message-ID: <199812221723.SAA13248@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



..way too amusing..


 Pentagon Decries U.S. Bomb Graffiti 
Tuesday, December 22, 1998; 1:24 a.m. EST

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Defense Department officials said Monday they were
distressed about ``thoughtless graffiti'' referring to the Islamic holy
month of Ramadan on a Navy bomb being prepared for dropping on Iraq. 

The Associated Press last Saturday transmitted a photograph of a
2,000-pound laser-guided bomb on the aircraft carrier USS Enterprise in the
Persian Gulf waiting to be loaded on F-14 and F-18 jet fighters. 

The bomb bore several inscriptions, including one that said, ``Here's a
Ramadan present from Chad Rickenberg.'' 

``Department of Defense officials were distressed to learn of thoughtless
graffiti mentioning the holy month of Ramadan written on a piece of U.S.
ordnance during Operation Desert Fox'' in Iraq, chief Pentagon spokesman
Kenneth Bacon said in a statement. 

``Religious intolerance is an anathema to Secretary of Defense William S.
Cohen and to all Americans who cherish the right to worship freely,'' he
added. ``The United States deeply respects Islam. We are grateful for our
good relations with Arab and Islamic peoples, and we appreciate the
important contributions of Muslim-Americans to the U.S. military and to our
nation as a whole. 

``I know our people in uniform respect and appreciate religious practices
different from their own. This incident is a rare exception that does not
reflect American policy or values.'' 
 






  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Rajiv Malik 
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 21:48:20 +0800
To: "cypherpunks@toad.com>
Subject: This one spl. for anonymous (X-mas puzzle)
Message-ID: <36802B35.83ACD1D0@riverrun.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Hi there

I remember u posted a nice puzzle long back this one
spl. for u :
-->
There are two persons. A pair of no is written on each's face. They can
see the no (pair of no) written on the other's face and they have to
tell the no written on their face. They start one by one. 
Lets say one person starts he can see the no written on his opponents
face , its (13,17). After 3 tries he tells the correct answer.
The nos exhibit the following properties:
1> All the nos are prime.
2> Any three no taken ( from the set of 4 nos, two no on each's face)
together form a triangle and the perimeter of the triangle is prime.

Now you have tell the no written on that persons face and why it took
him three tries.
The conversation between the two persons is as follows
Let p1 and p2 be the persons and 
p1 starts and p1 saw the no (13,17) written in p2.

p1> I don't know
p2> I don't know
p1> I don't know
p2> I don't know
p1> Tells the right no.

enjoy (Happy X-mas)
Rajiv

PS : I'm off till 28th So u have enough time.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 08:21:18 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: CL: PJ O'Rourke on economic books & Hayek
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



My only exception to this rule is "Investments", by Sharpe, which,
unfortunately, isn't for the innumerate. :-).

Cheers,
RAH
--- begin forwarded text


Date:         Tue, 22 Dec 1998 16:56:45 EST
Reply-To: Hayek Related Research 
Sender: Hayek Related Research 
From: Hayek-L List Host 
Subject:      CL: PJ O'Rourke on economic books & Hayek
To: HAYEK-L@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU

  >>  Current Literature  <<   --  economics / humor


"A NOTE ABOUT THE BIBLIOGRAPHY

There isn't one.  I'm too lazy.  And who ever heard
of humor with footnotes?  But there are certain books
which I found crucial to a neophyte student of
economics, especially if (and I mean no insult to
the texts by this) that student is uninformed, innumerate,
light-minded, and a big goof-off.  In other words, these
are the books to read if you want to know something
about economics but have never gotten further into the
subject than figuring out a trifecta at Belmont:

  _Free to Choose_ and _Capitalism and Freedom_
by Milton and Rose Friedman ,,,

  _The Road to Serfdom_ by Friedrich A. Hayek ,,,

  _The Armchair Economist by Steven E. Landsburg ,,,

There are certain books you should avoid, such as
anything with the words Investment and Success in the title
and everything ever written by John Kenneth Galbraith ,,,"


P. J. O'Rourke, _Eat the Rich: A Treatise On Economics_.
New York: Atlantic Monthly Press.  1998.  pp. xvi-xvi.



Current Literature is a regular feature of the Hayek-L list.

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 12:04:11 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Question about 'TEMPEST'
In-Reply-To: <36806A08.E9E3BEC1@citrus.infi.net>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 7:56 PM -0800 12/22/98, Tiny wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>I`m sorry to ask such a stupid question.  Is 'TEMPEST' an acronym, and
>if so, what
>exactly does it represent?

It was not originated as an acronym, though some have labored to find the
words to make it one, sort of. Best to treat it as not being an acronym.

It's a set of specs and testing methods for measuring and controlling RF
emissions by computers and other electronic equipment. Shielding with metal
enclosures, with filters on inputs and outputs, and so on.

The full TEMPEST specs are more or less classified, as might be expected.
(Because one does not lightly tell one's enemies what one is measuring for.)

Contrary to popular rumor, it is not "illegal" to shield computers, to "use
TEMPEST methods," as it were.

--Tim May

We would go to their homes, and we'd kill their wives and
their children. We would kill their families
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Missouri FreeNet Administration 
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 10:58:19 +0800
To: Reeza! 
Subject: Re: I must admit. . .
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981223061138.00acf7b0@205.83.192.13>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




On Wed, 23 Dec 1998, Reeza! wrote:

:Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 06:11:38 +1000
:From: Reeza! 
:To: Missouri FreeNet Administration 
:Cc: Jukka E Isosaari , Joel O'Connor ,
:    mib , cypherpunks@toad.com
:Subject: Re: I must admit. . .
:
:At 02:29 PM 12/22/98 -0600, Missouri FreeNet Administration wrote:
:>
:>On Tue, 22 Dec 1998, Reeza! blathered thusly:
:
:Cute.
:
:>Hrmm... And we have never "sanctioned" (gotta love those innocuous
:>euphemisms) any soveriegn State?  What good for the goose is not good for
:>the gander?  I repeat, *what gives us the RIGHT* to determine his weaponry
:>or lack thereof?
:
:Perhaps if you cited a few examples, your counter-point would have some
:weight. 

How about Iraq itself???

:>:Your arguments would be better applied to Somalia and Bosnia than they are
:>:to Iraq. Our presence in those countries was of a slightly different
:>:character than it is in Iraq now isn't it???
:>Yes indeed.  In these two countries we were there only to watch over the
:>slaughter, not to perpetuate it ourselves.  Mustv'e ruined your Military
:>Day (tm), huh Reeza?
:
:(yawn) not really. Actually, any involvement we have with the UN gets on my
:nerves. Interesting, the way you ignore the differences between "internal
:conflict" and "aggression against a sovereign neighbor".

I don't see any difference when *we* are the ones injecting ourselves into
it.  Why don't you point them out to me?

Yours,

J.A. Terranson
A *thinking* citizen of the United States Of America - damn few of us
left... 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 10:37:02 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Advanced Crypto Graduate Course
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 20:00:31 -0500 (EST)
From: Christof Paar 
To: "WPI.Crypto.Seminar":;
cc: DCSB 
Subject: Advanced Crypto Graduate Course
Sender: bounce-dcsb@ai.mit.edu
Reply-To: Christof Paar 

Please find below an announcement for the Crypto II graduate course. I'll
be happy to answer any question about the course contents. For
registration questions, please contact WPI's Graduate Admission Office at
"gao@wpi.edu".

Regards,

Christof

***********************************************************************
                 Christof Paar,  Assistant Professor
          Cryptography and Information Security (CRIS) Group
      ECE Dept., WPI, 100 Institute Rd., Worcester, MA 01609, USA
fon: (508) 831 5061    email: christof@ece.wpi.edu
fax: (508) 831 5491    www:   http://ee.wpi.edu/People/faculty/cxp.html
***********************************************************************

>>>  WORKSHOP ON CRYPTOGRAPHIC HARDWARE AND EMBEDDED SYSTEMS (CHES) <<<
>>>                   WPI, August 12 & 13, 1999                     <<<
>>>         check  http://ece.wpi.edu/Research/crypt/ches           <<<


------------------------------------------------------------------------
           EE 579R, ADVANCED TOPICS IN CRYPTOGRAPHY

                       Spring `99 Semester
               WPI, Thursdays, 5:30-8:30pm, AK219
                 First day of class: January 21


                       COURSE DESCRIPTION

The course is a continuation of EE 578/CS 578, Cryptography and Data
Security. It will provide a deeper insight into several areas of cryptology
which are of great practical and theoretical importance. One focus of the
course is on techniques for efficient software and (to a somewhat lesser
extend) hardware implementations for public-key algorithms. The second focus
is on attacks against public-key schemes, which is fundamental for an
in-depth understanding of the choice of practical algorithms. Many techniques
will be introduced which are usually only treated in the research
literature.


                           SYLLABUS

Week 1: Introduction
Overview on practical public-key algorithms and efficient implementation
techniques. Efficient implementation of RSA: The Chinese Remainder Theorem.

Week 2: Selected public-key algorithms
Review of the generalized discrete logarithm problem and elliptic curve
cryptosystems.

Week 3: Efficient Implementation
Introduction to long number arithmetic.

Week 4: Efficient Implementation
Fast modular reduction algorithms.

Week 5: Efficient Implementation
Fast inversion algorithms.

Week 6: Efficient Implementation
Efficient exponentiation algorithms.

Week 7
Midterm Exam

Week 8: Attacks
Attacking DL systems: Baby-step giant-step method and Pollard's rho
method.

Week 9: Attacks
Attacking DL systems: Parallelization of Pollard's rho method.

Week 10
Topics TBA, depending on student interest. Possibilities are: Index-calculus
attack, differential cryptanalysis, correlation attacks, modern block cipher
design, Galois field arithmetic.

Week 11
as week 10 lecture

Week 12: Student presentations

Week 13: Student presentations

Week 14
Final Exam.


                           TEXTBOOKS

A. Menezes, P. van Oorschot, S. Vanstone: Handbook of Applied Cryptography. CRC
Press. (primary, mandatory)

D. Stinson, Cryptography: Theory and Practice. CRC Press, 1995. (recommended)



                        PREREQUISITES

The knowledge of the material of  EE 578/CS 578, Cryptography and Data
Security, is assumed (in particular with respect to public-key algorithms).
In addition, some experience with the C programming language is required.



***********************************************************************
                 Christof Paar,  Assistant Professor
          Cryptography and Information Security (CRIS) Group
      ECE Dept., WPI, 100 Institute Rd., Worcester, MA 01609, USA
fon: (508) 831 5061    email: christof@ece.wpi.edu
fax: (508) 831 5491    www:   http://ee.wpi.edu/People/faculty/cxp.html
***********************************************************************

>>>  WORKSHOP ON CRYPTOGRAPHIC HARDWARE AND EMBEDDED SYSTEMS (CHES) <<<
>>>                   WPI, August 12 & 13, 1999                     <<<
>>>         check  http://ece.wpi.edu/Research/crypt/ches           <<<




For help on using this list (especially unsubscribing), send a message to
"dcsb-request@ai.mit.edu" with one line of text: "help".

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tiny 
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 11:25:02 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Question about 'TEMPEST'
Message-ID: <36806A08.E9E3BEC1@citrus.infi.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I`m sorry to ask such a stupid question.  Is 'TEMPEST' an acronym, and
if so, what
exactly does it represent?

Thank you,

T
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 5.5.3i for non-commercial use 

iQA/AwUBNoBpaEiyQsorYRwzEQJFcgCghbCaE79bC5GeMtImqlmHmbs+aBUAnRZf
ybJguQDd6XMo7g3YeBhTkCNB
=RN0b
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--
Erik P. Sonnwald 
Public key available via public keyservers.
Fingerprint: 6205 7AF1 1874 6CA5 F705  6C40 48B2 42CA 2B61 1C33





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "jim finder" 
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 13:07:50 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Good archive of AES algorithms?
Message-ID: <19981223044817.18194.qmail@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Thanks to everyone who responded to me on the AES
archive. Most people pointed me to the counterpane.com
web site, which is very nice and well done, and answers
most of my questions. Unfortunately, though, Counterpane
itself is one of the candidates, so the site may not
exactly be unbiased. Is there any site with a similar scope
being run by a disinterested party?

Thanks again!

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Reeza! 
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 23:00:34 +0800
To: Missouri FreeNet Administration 
Subject: Re: I must admit. . .
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981221234722.009bd210@205.83.192.13>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981222230204.03b51100@205.83.192.13>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 12:41 PM 12/21/98 -0600, Missouri FreeNet Administration wrote:
>
>
>*WHY* is it any of our business whether he owns weapons of *any* kind?  WE
>own them, and we USE them: Does this give other nations the right to
>embargo us, and to bomb us into oblivion if we refuse to allow THEM to
>tell US what to do?
>
>Our concern for his weaponry should only be an issue *IF* he uses them, as
>with *OUR* weaponry.  Yours is the classical anti-gun argument, and it's
>no more effective at the international level than at the state level.

This would be a valid argument, if he had not already sanctioned Kuwait.
OOPS. Did you forget that?

Your arguments would be better applied to Somalia and Bosnia than they are
to Iraq. Our presence in those countries was of a slightly different
character than it is in Iraq now isn't it???

Hmmm???

>:Reeza!
>:DH Key available on request
>Note that your DH Key is a "munition"...  Shouldn't you be "qualified" to
>have it by the USG - strictly for the safety of the world, of course...
>
>Yours, 
>J.A. Terranson
>sysadmin@mfn.org

well J.A., my DH Key is just as much a "munition" as my house key, legal
definitions not-withstanding.
============================================================================
DH Key available upon request.


The affairs of Men rarely rely on the dictates of logic, or even common sense.


	"Yeah, they mostly rely on something below the belt."

				-- my older sister




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Reeza! 
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 23:16:15 +0800
To: Jukka E Isosaari 
Subject: Re: I must admit. . .
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981221234722.009bd210@205.83.192.13>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981222233351.03b44550@205.83.192.13>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/enriched

 At 06:05 AM 12/22/98 +0200, Jukka E Isosaari wrote:
>On Mon, 21 Dec 1998, Reeza! wrote:
>
>> Perfectly acceptable to me personally. Please show how it will result in
>> proving that Iraq does not, and will not in the near or forseeable future
>> possess weapons of mass destruction that may be utilized against
>> neighbors, foreign or domestic. Or how it will result in turning the
>> public opinion, iraqi and/or american, touted by the biased US press in
>> such a fashion that it would result in a munificent display of openness,
>> agreeablility, and welcoming to the UN inspectors by the iraqi hosts. Or
>> show how Hussein is now trustworthy, and thereby qualified by the  MIB
>> office of the USG to possess said weapons.
>
>It won't. But please show how bombing the shit out of all the Iraqis will
>accomplish this either? I would imagine getting rid of the lunatic leader
>and establishing a civilized democracy with human rights in place, would
>result in a state that would not be as prone to be as aggressive or
>inclined to use weapons of mass destruction. Or isn't that the  ultimate
>goal?

Ostensibly, the reason for bombing Iraq is to remove their ability to engage in hostilities. We all know how that is supposed to work

>But you are right, I must admit, that not *all* democracies are
>non-aggressive, with USA coming to mind as an example. It seems that
>rotten people with no moral values at the top, result in aggressive
>foreign policies, no matter what the nation.
>
>The bombing will only result in creating more frustrated individuals with
>personal vendettas against the US. (People with dead children/wives, etc.)
>
>With your logic, the US is on a road to kill every non-american on  this
>planet, in order to ensure their own safety. 

I'm not so sure- we did not engage in hostilities against Iraq until AFTER they invaded Kuwait. We did cease and desist when requested by other middle east sovereignties who were members of the UN coalition. 

>Actually, this has been evident quite some time in the US foreign policy: 
>The *only* lives that matter are the American ones. It is also very evident
>in the US film industry (national propaganda/brainwashing machine). Just
>how many war movies have you seen where the US special-forces squads
>venture into the vietnam/arabs and kill hundreds or thousands of people in
>order to save a few US prisoners? Try thinking that in reverse, an  Arab
>squad coming into the US, and killing hundreds of US citizens to save a few
>arabs, for a change. Seeing a few movies like that would do some good to a
>lot of americans in restoring their respect for universal human life. 
>
>Anyway, the point I am trying to make in this, is that the americans don't
>in general seem to put any value on human life, *unless* it is an american.
>This is evident everywhere: in their film industry, their foreign politics,
>and even Bill Gates' donation policies. It seems to be a fact ever  more
>blatant. 
>
>Anyone else notice this?

You shouldn't base your life lessons on what appears on the boob tube. I'll be the first to agree the US media is wholly engaged in propaganda, that Hollywood uses films to convey political messages. Their success is dependant on a couple of factors, among them being whether the viewer is a person capable of rational thought, or a sheeple.

>> >The military is engaged
>> >in creating a threat to justify their existence and continued 
>>
>> EAT MY MILITARY FUCKING SHORTS YOU PUSSY FUCKWAD FAGGOT SON-OF-A-BITCH.
>> The powers of the military are being abused by CIVILIANS who cannot
>> fathom the true purpose of the military, think the military doesn't earn
>> its pay. I have something for YOU to earn, you ewe you.
>> 
>> >economic well-being. Saddam is worth much, much more to them when
>> >he is alive and well in Iraq.
>> 
>> OH YEAH, OH YEAH, THAT is why we dropped leaflets advocating the iraqis
>> do everything in their power to maintain their present, totalitarian
>> regime. GET A FUCKING CLUE YOU GREASY STAIN ON THIS MAILING LIST.
>
>Did I hit a nerve or something?

Yes. Something.

>Usually people resort to name-calling only when feeling badly inferior
>or in lack of any real facts to represent in defence of their case,
>and in general this justifies the strong doubt that the person in
>question is in fact a juvenile.

Or to give greater emphasis to what is being said. The squeaky wheel gets the grease, sound bites don't work on a mailing list.

>I'm sorry, but I won't waste my time on blathering kids like you. 
>
>(Please note: I've Cc:ed the root at your site, as you appear to be so
>childish, and I wouldn't know what a child is doing with a .mil account,
>so you must be using your parent's account or a hacked account,
>both of which are in general very much against the rules..

This should be interesting.

>Or, in the unlikely case that you are actually an adult, please consider
>this as an exemplary sample of Mr Zeebra's skills in delivering verbal
>attacks in defence of his country. Surely you recognize his superiors
>language skills and the qualifications he has for the assignation to the
>national ultra secret verbal cyber-warfare attack squad, designed to
>destroy the egos and PCs of all those who have not bought in to the US
>military propaganda.)
>
>In any case, I realize this is the wrong list for this discussion. 
>Please continue in private, like a good netbaby, if you feel like
>more name-calling. I've already added you to my filters.

and with a sniff and hoisting of the nose, you would step away, without defending the earlier position, only criticizing mine. You poor excuse for a respondee, put on your blinders, install your filters, stick your head into that hole in the sand.

Attn; root@cable.navy.mil- Hi!

Reeza!
============================================================================
DH Key available upon request.


The affairs of Men rarely rely on the dictates of logic, or even common sense.


"Yeah, they mostly rely on something below the belt."

-- my older sister



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: mgraffam@idsi.net
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 13:28:11 +0800
To: Tiny 
Subject: Re: Question about 'TEMPEST'
In-Reply-To: <36806A08.E9E3BEC1@citrus.infi.net>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Tue, 22 Dec 1998, Tiny wrote:

> I`m sorry to ask such a stupid question.  Is 'TEMPEST' an acronym, and
> if so, what
> exactly does it represent?

Some have turned it into an acronyms.

Originally it was just a code-word referring to emanations security. 

See http://www.eskimo.com/~joelm/tempest.html

Of interest:

"..the isle is full of noises, sounds and sweet airs that give 
delight and hurt not. Sometimes a thousand twangling instruments
will hum about mine ears, and sometimes voices.."

>From Shakespeare's "The Tempest" .. the benefits of a liberal education.

Michael J. Graffam (mgraffam@idsi.net)
"Let your life be a counter-friction to stop the machine."
			Henry David Thoreau "Civil Disobedience"




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Brown, R Ken" 
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 22:17:55 +0800
To: tcmay@got.net>
Subject: RE: Question about 'TEMPEST'
Message-ID: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE20313FB44@MSX11002>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Tim May wrote:

> The full TEMPEST specs are more or less classified, as might 
> be expected. (Because one does not lightly tell one's enemies
>  what one is measuring for.)

> Contrary to popular rumor, it is not "illegal" to shield
>  computers, to "use TEMPEST methods," as it were.

Rather hard to see how it could be, given that the details are supposed to
be secret!  If all of a sudden you got arrested for wrapping wet towels
around screens that would be a Big Clue....

(of course that assumes you live in a country where you get told what you;ve
been arrested for. Hmmmm....)

Ken




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 13:32:11 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199812230509.GAA11006@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



"kryz"  crapped:
>
> Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="YEAR.EXE"
>

*STOP* sending such *RATSHIT* to this mailing list
you unforgivable dickheaded *SACK OF SHIT*
Keep your fucking .EXE files to yourself.
*SMASH YOURSELF* on the head with your nice little
m$-windoze manuals. At least that would knock you
unconscious and you won't be bothering us with
your *BLATHERING CRAP*. *WE DO NOT WANT WINDOZE CRAP* on this list, you *RABIDDOGWHOREMONGER* can you get that through that *FUCKIN THICK* skull of yours?




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Reeza! 
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 06:03:40 +0800
To: Missouri FreeNet Administration 
Subject: Re: I must admit. . .
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981222230204.03b51100@205.83.192.13>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981223061138.00acf7b0@205.83.192.13>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 02:29 PM 12/22/98 -0600, Missouri FreeNet Administration wrote:
>
>On Tue, 22 Dec 1998, Reeza! blathered thusly:

Cute.

>Hrmm... And we have never "sanctioned" (gotta love those innocuous
>euphemisms) any soveriegn State?  What good for the goose is not good for
>the gander?  I repeat, *what gives us the RIGHT* to determine his weaponry
>or lack thereof?

Perhaps if you cited a few examples, your counter-point would have some
weight. 

>:Your arguments would be better applied to Somalia and Bosnia than they are
>:to Iraq. Our presence in those countries was of a slightly different
>:character than it is in Iraq now isn't it???
>Yes indeed.  In these two countries we were there only to watch over the
>slaughter, not to perpetuate it ourselves.  Mustv'e ruined your Military
>Day (tm), huh Reeza?

(yawn) not really. Actually, any involvement we have with the UN gets on my
nerves. Interesting, the way you ignore the differences between "internal
conflict" and "aggression against a sovereign neighbor".

>:well J.A., my DH Key is just as much a "munition" as my house key, legal
>:definitions not-withstanding.
>
>I see the law means much to you.  This why you joined the military? Or is
>it that they wouldn't take you over at James Bond School?

There is Law, then there is law. Much has been said about both on this list. 
I think you are chastizing me for criticizing a Bad Law. Since I haven't
broken any Laws by offering to send my public key to anyone who requests
it, I wonder why you even bring it up. 

>:The affairs of Men rarely rely on the dictates of logic, or even common
sense.
>:
>:
>:	"Yeah, they mostly rely on something below the belt."
>:
>:				-- my older sister
>
>She must've heard your "Eat my military shorts" comment...

I'll tell her you said that,,, I bet she laughs at you too. ;)

Reeza!
============================================================================
DH Key available upon request.


The affairs of Men rarely rely on the dictates of logic, or even common sense.


	"Yeah, they mostly rely on something below the belt."

				-- my older sister




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 22:27:06 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Jury Duty
Message-ID: <199812230730.IAA17418@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



In 22 years of being qualified, I am facing my first jury duty summons as a regular employee and see no way out except to report. The old self-employment, financial burden exemption no longer applies.

Is there a good web site where I can find other legal means to recuse myself (I live in AZ), or if I do
decide to report and get on a trial, a web site on my rights to vote my conscious, aka jury nullification?

The other option is to just lie, it says the penalty is that of perjury and it seems we shall
soon have case law that perjury is no longer a crime.

Not a facetious post, I have seen posts here on this before, but never really paid attention because it didn't affect me. 

If no answers, I will resort to a search engine. But I thought this letter would get me better
quality advice.

Thanks






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 22:45:52 +0800
To: dbs@philodox.com>
Subject: Context Magazine interviews with Moore, Metcalfe, and Coase
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Well, I don't know about *heroes*. I mean, Tom Swift, or the Grey Lensman,
were *heroes*, right? ;-).

Still these are some good interviews, in complete keeping with the topic of
my last pico-rant.

Metcalfe talks about micromoney, even what looks, facially, like a
georecursive market. Sans digital bearer transaction settlement, of course,
but they'll all learn... :-).

Also note where Coase guess that transaction costs (not just settlement and
clearing, but the whole information enchelada of finding products, etc.)
might come to 45% of GDP, or $4.5 trillion for the US alone.

Stuff like that is why I say that digital bearer transactions will be the
dominant value transfer technology of the coming geodesic economy.

Cheers,
RAH

--- begin forwarded text


From: Somebody
To: Bob Hettinga 
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 02:11:14 "GMT"
Subject:  Somebody has recommended a CONTEXT Magazine article to you

Somebody sent you this article from CONTEXT Magazine
(http://www.contextmag.com)

Note:
-----------------------------
A short interview with three of your heroes.  Merry Christmas!


-----------------------------

http://www.contextmag.com/archives/199809/lawAndDisorder.asp
We hope you enjoy it.
CONTEXT Magazine

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 23:08:32 +0800
To: Jan Dobrucki 
Message-ID: <199812231428.GAA03593@smtp.well.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Jan,

Last week I did a USIA (think Voice of America) video broadcast to Poland,
and delivered a speech to Polish journalists about Y2K. The consensus among
them and the US embassy staffers who facilitated the discussion was that
bigger companies might be okay and smaller ones wouldn't. But since (the
journalists told me) the Polish people are used to hardship, it wouldn't be
as big of a deal as it would be in the US.

Best,

Declan
Washington, DC


At 02:17 PM 12-23-98 +0100, Jan Dobrucki wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
>Polish Telecommunications [Telekomunikacja Polska, TP S.A..]
>
>I went to Polish Telecommunications on the 21/12/1998 
>[na ul. Zamenhoffa w Warszawie - on Zamenhoff St. in Warsaw] 
>and inquired what was being done about the Millennium Bug. 
>What I got from a medium important chief was that there was an 
>article not long ago about it, the name of the journal escapes me. 
>She seemed pretty angry that I even asked about it. What made 
>me angry was that she didn't know what was the bloody problem. 
>Total ignorance. But I guess Polish Telecommunications are 
>going to get a kick out it when the year 2000 finally does arrive.
>
>Later,
>Jan Dobrucki a.k.a. jdo
>
>
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>Version: PGP Cyber-Knights Templar build 5.5.3ckt
>Comment: "Information is Ammunition"
>Comment: KeyID: 0x49281659
>Comment: Fingerprint: F220 3529 2B65 FA9C  F4DF 5F02 11ED D8BB
>
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>=7cUG
>-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 00:25:43 +0800
To: mgraffam@idsi.net
Subject: Re: Question about 'TEMPEST': UPS
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199812231539.JAA30225@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Just curious, if a computer is connected to the electric power through a UPS,
does that reduce emissions leaked into the electrical system?:wq




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Reeza! 
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 20:22:33 +0800
To: Missouri FreeNet Administration 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981223094009.00ad2c20@205.83.192.13>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 02:15 PM 12/22/98 -0600, Missouri FreeNet Administration wrote:
>
>	HEY, REEZA!  ARE YOU *LISTENING* ???
>-----
> Pentagon Decries U.S. Bomb Graffiti 
>Tuesday, December 22, 1998; 1:24 a.m. EST

Looks to me like someone is a sore luser.

--snipped a bunch of twice posted material, along with running commentary--

>J.A. Terranson
>sysadmin@mfn.org

Next time, try saying something about my mother.

Reeza!


============================================================================
DH Key available upon request.


The affairs of Men rarely rely on the dictates of logic, or even common sense.


	"Yeah, they mostly rely on something below the belt."

				-- my older sister




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: b!X 
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 02:20:14 +0800
To: Declan McCullagh 
Subject: Re: Jury Duty
In-Reply-To: <199812231541.HAA17483@smtp.well.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Also, the civilliberty.miningco.com website has a collection of jury
nullification resources.


- b!X (Guerrilla Techno-fetishist)
      (Global Effort to Eradicate Know-nothings)
      (We all suck, and that makes us strong.)






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 02:15:33 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Jury Duty
In-Reply-To: <199812230730.IAA17418@replay.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 7:45 AM -0800 12/23/98, Declan McCullagh wrote:
>If you want to vote your conscience (if it's a drug prosecution and you
>don't agree with drug laws for instance), there are a few organizations
>that you might want to look at. Maybe check out http://www.cato.org/ which
>last I checked had an advertisement for a new book on jury nullification
>etc. on their home page.

Simply vote "not guilty" on the charges (any or all) that one thinks are
bad charges.

Jurors are not required to "explain" their votes to anyone, least of all
the government.

Though, as with speaking to cops, it may be that the more one talks in the
jury room, or attempts to explain to the judge, the worse a hole one digs
for oneself. In particular, I'd steer clear of reading books about jury
nullification, lest one be tempted to cite case law...and thus open the
door for the judge to inquire further.

Simply voting "not guilty" gives them no grounds for contempt charges, or
whatever they usually throw at jury nullification advocates.

--Tim May

We would go to their homes, and we'd kill their wives and
their children. We would kill their families
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ken Williams 
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 00:04:57 +0800
To: Monica Lewinsky Fan Club 
Subject: "U.S. Allows Export Of Crypto Product ... strong-encryption productto 42 countries, without government-backed key-recovery"
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----


http://www.techweb.com/wire/story/TWB19981222S0016

U.S. Allows Export Of Crypto Product
(12/22/98, 5:38 p.m. ET)
George Leopold, EE Times, http://www.eetimes.com


Network security specialists ODS  Networks has won government 
approval to export its strong-encryption product to companies in 42 
countries, without a  government-backed key-recovery feature.

ODS, in Richardson, Texas, said it is the first U.S. company to 
receive a blanket export license from the Department of Commerce to 
ship its encryption product.  The government strictly controls the 
export of encryption products with a key-recovery feature and key 
lengths of 112, 128, or 1,024 bits. 

The ODS products use an alternate "stream recovery" feature that 
lets users protect encrypted data. The company said its 
stream-recovery scheme helps resolve conflicting requirements for 
privacy and monitoring. 

ODS said its objective was to introduce a monitoring capability that 
protects the rights of innocent third parties in criminal 
investigations.

- -----

Ken Williams

Packet Storm Security        http://www.Genocide2600.com/~tattooman/
E.H.A.P. Head of Operations  http://www.ehap.org/   ehap@ehap.org
NC State CS Dept  http://www.csc.ncsu.edu/   jkwilli2@unity.ncsu.edu
PGP DSS/DH/RSA Keys          http://www4.ncsu.edu/~jkwilli2/pgpkey/

___________________________________________________________________ 
Get Your Email Sniffed and Decrypted for Free at http://www.nsa.gov

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Declan McCullagh 
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 00:12:29 +0800
To: Anonymous 
Message-ID: <199812231541.HAA17483@smtp.well.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



If you want to vote your conscience (if it's a drug prosecution and you
don't agree with drug laws for instance), there are a few organizations
that you might want to look at. Maybe check out http://www.cato.org/ which
last I checked had an advertisement for a new book on jury nullification
etc. on their home page.

-Declan


At 08:30 AM 12-23-98 +0100, Anonymous wrote:
>In 22 years of being qualified, I am facing my first jury duty summons as
a regular employee and see no way out except to report. The old
self-employment, financial burden exemption no longer applies.
>
>Is there a good web site where I can find other legal means to recuse
myself (I live in AZ), or if I do
>decide to report and get on a trial, a web site on my rights to vote my
conscious, aka jury nullification?
>
>The other option is to just lie, it says the penalty is that of perjury
and it seems we shall
>soon have case law that perjury is no longer a crime.
>
>Not a facetious post, I have seen posts here on this before, but never
really paid attention because it didn't affect me. 
>
>If no answers, I will resort to a search engine. But I thought this letter
would get me better
>quality advice.
>
>Thanks
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Greg Broiles 
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 04:04:06 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Jury Duty
In-Reply-To: <199812230730.IAA17418@replay.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Wed, 23 Dec 1998, Anonymous wrote:

> Is there a good web site where I can find other legal means to recuse myself (I live in AZ), or if I do
> decide to report and get on a trial, a web site on my rights to vote my conscious, aka jury nullification?

If you really do want to avoid jury service, mentioning FIJA or jury
nullification ought to do the trick - it may get every juror within
earshot excused, too, depending on how paranoid the locals are. 

But I think that's a horrible idea - jury participation is an opportunity
to exercise much more influence than you wield if/when you vote in an
election. All by yourself, voting your conscience as shaped by the
evidence and the jury instructions, you can force a mistrial, which might
or might not mean the end of the case. If your view of the evidence and
your understanding of the law, as explained by the judge in the jury
instructions, proves to be persuasive to your fellow jurors, you will
collectively make the law as it applies to the parties in your trial. It's
pretty difficult to overturn a jury verdict - not impossible, but it's
harder than you might think from watching TV.

Jury duty is, correctly understood, yet another of the "checks and
balances" of the US legal system - if the legislators and judges are doing
things with the law that the citizens don't like, don't support, or even
just don't understand, it's an opportunity for those citizens to
peacefully change the situation. Unfortunately, the jury duty process
tends to select against people with the backbone to think for themselves;
and people with backbone and strong principles often self-select away from
jury service, because the bureacratic mechansims which surround it are
confusing, annonying, and sometimes humiliating. If you can look
beyond/around that, it's an opportunity to participate in the distributed
creation of law and justice, which is a pretty big deal.

Cypherpunks serve on juries?

--
Greg Broiles
gbroiles@netbox.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 02:20:14 +0800
To: Digital Bearer Settlement List 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 5:42 PM -0500 12/21/98, Robert Hettinga wrote:
>Sure, Red Hat grosses $20 million, but that's more a function of the
>cost-domination of sneaker-netted CDROM over the still-scrawny lower
>capillaries of the internet. More to the point, I claim, it's the result of
>the cost of *credit-cards*, even *checks*, as a way to pay for code.
>Book-entry settlement, in other words, which is done "out of band", over
>private, hierarchical, and proprietary financial transaction networks.

	Redhat makes it's money for 4 reasons, and only the first 2 will go
way in the cryptoanarchic geodesic encrypted internetworked micromoney
market place of the future:

	(1) Redhat [debian, slackware, S.u.s.e (the best dist. IMO)]
contribute back to the Linux/Open Software community, and "We" pay them
back by buying their software.
	(2) As noted above, the last mile pipes to the cloud are still small.
	(3) How much of Redhats profit is in support contracts? Lots of
small to medium sized companies are starting to use Linux, and they like to
buy support, even if it is useless and rarely used. This one will go away
in the above cryptoanarchic geodesic encrypted internetworked micromoney
market place of the future because one will be able to purchase specific
consulting time from a wide variety of sources.

	--and--

>If it were possible to pay to download code, as you needed it, for
>instantaneously net-settled *cash*, and for sufficiently small enough bits of
>money, then the need, the price-economy, if you will, for large glops of code
>would go away.

	This is why I purchased a copy of RedHat (and later SUSE, Redhat
sucks):

	(4) Being able to grab code as you need it is all well and good,
but what do you do when the machine that ties you into the network fails?
When you need to get that machine back up +now+. Yes, you can burn your own
CD (or DVDrom, or whatever), but Media burners are more expensive than
readers, and not every one can afford them.

	The network can't help when you can't reach it.

>Finally, it even behoves huge companies who control large blocks of
>intellectual property, record companies, and Microsoft, for instance, :-), to
>compete in this new kind of market, precisely *because* the the transaction
>costs are so low and the initial profit margins are correspondingly higher.

	The problem with your line of thought is that in the cryptoanarchic
geodesic encrypted internetworked micromoney market place of the future,
the difference between "old" information (code) and "new" information
(code) in MARKET terms can be minutes or less, while it takes weeks to turn
out good new code.

	Why should _anyone_ buy at a higher price when one can watch the
value fall faster than gravity should allow?

	Yes, someone will make the _first_ buy, but that will be the last
buy at anywhere near that price, and that is going to force the developer
to reduce his costs etc.
--
"To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a
jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a
gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather naďve, and certainly
unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust"
http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html

Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro@playboy.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 04:58:30 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Question about 'TEMPEST': UPS
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981223120228.009bf320@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 09:39 AM 12/23/98 -0600, Igor Chudov @ home wrote:
>Just curious, if a computer is connected to the electric power through a UPS,
>does that reduce emissions leaked into the electrical system?:wq

It should probably reduce them a bit, depending on your UPS design,
but if you have to worry about people monitoring your electricity
for contraband bits, you've got a whole raft of other things
you'd better start taking care of, like disk encryption and
offsite backups and signs on the door indicating that you
will or will not shoot at police if they do or do not have warrants....

The converse is that if you've got an electrical filtering system
as part of your TEMPEST protection, whether it's in your computer's
power supply or separate or both, you tend to have really nice
clean power feeding your computer, which is a Good Thing.

				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 04:58:43 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Jury Duty
In-Reply-To: <199812230730.IAA17418@replay.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981223122641.009c49f0@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 08:30 AM 12/23/98 +0100, Some Anonymous Replay User wrote:
>In 22 years of being qualified, I am facing my first jury duty summons as a 
>regular employee and see no way out except to report. 
>The old self-employment, financial burden exemption no longer applies.
>
>Is there a good web site where I can find other legal means to recuse myself
>(I live in AZ), or if I do decide to report and get on a trial, 
>a web site on my rights to vote my conscious, aka jury nullification?

The Fully Informed Jury Association web page is http://www.fija.org/fija .
They've been the primary organization promoting Jury Nullification issues
for the last N years, and there's some good material there.

The question I'd ask is why you _want_ to get off jury duty.
Just to avoid wasting your time?  Don't like courts or the current laws?
Don't like having to judge other people?  Generally cantakerous? :-)  

If the problem is wasting your time, how much time gets wasted
depends a lot on your county.  Most counties call far more people
than they need to be potential jurors, just in case they need them,
and take different approaches for winnowing down to the numbers
they actually need for real cases.  The place I live now makes you
call a recorded message every night to see if your number's come up.
On the other hand, a county I used to live in made you show up
in person for the first four days whether you were needed or not,
and this was before laptop computers so I couldn't do much work there.
Another county I lived near makes the lawyers all show up Monday,
and takes care of all the jury selection that day.

On the other hand, if you are picked, and the trial is expected
to take a long time, the voir dire process generally includes
asking if this is going to cause a major hardship,
which is why juries on those cases are usually made up of
retired schoolteachers, retired military, and postal workers.
But most county jury trials seem to be civil cases, like car accidents
and such, which are usually pretty quick.

For criminal cases, the job of the jury has always been to judge
the law and its applicability as well as the facts of the case,
regardless of what the judge and prosecutor tell you
(though the judge's instructions on the law usually are
relatively good advice.)  If you think the law's bad,
like drug laws, or being applied unfairly in the case at hand,
or that the penalties are way out of line for the crime,
you can vote not guilty, and you can try to convince your
fellow jurors to do the same.  Your duty is to vote your conscience.

Alternatively, if you really want to get out of jury duty anyway,
handing out FIJA literature in the jury pool waiting room
and discussing the issues with your fellow potential jurors
should either get you thrown out quickly, because they don't
want your subversive kind around, and similarly,
if you get as far as the jury selection process,
being an intelligent and opinionated type often makes
you an undesirable juror in either civil or criminal cases,
so they may still reject you.  

But if you're the political activist type, rather than just 
trying to get out of jury duty, you can get stuck on some 
automobile accident or dog bite lawsuit 
where there's basically no FIJA issue at all and you're just
deciding who's 65% at fault and how much pain and suffering
their whiplash really caused :-)


				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Vin McLellan 
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 03:04:59 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Koop's Crypto Law Survey updated - v. 14.1 (FW)
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



From: "Bert-Jaap Koops" 
Organization: Tilburg University
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 16:04:37 MET
Subject: Crypto Law Survey updated - version 14.1


I have updated my Crypto Law Survey to version 14.1.
http://cwis.kub.nl/~frw/people/koops/lawsurvy.htm

INTERNATIONAL
Wassenaar Arrangement (December 1998 changes)

ASIA & PACIFIC
China (no use restrictions)
Indonesia (use restrictions?)
Kyrgyzstan (no export controls)
Vietnam (import controls)

EUROPE
EU (to implement Wassenaar changes?)
Poland (free GSN import)
Slovenia (no domestic controls)
Spain (Telecoms Law may forebode key recovery)

NORTH AND SOUTH AMERICA
Chile (no controls)
Colombia (no controls)
Costa Rica (no domestic controls)
Mexico (no use restrictions)
Puerto Rico (no controls)
United States (new export relaxations; Junger dismissed; TACDFIPSFKMI
charter extended; copyright act may hinder crypto research)
Uruguay (no controls)

Please note that the UK entry still needs updating.

Bert-Jaap Koops
Tilburg University
23 December 1998

--------------------------
You may forward this message, in its entirety, without permission.
.--------------------------
To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
 with subject "unsubscribe cls-update".
.

-----
"Cryptography is like literacy in the Dark Ages. Infinitely potent, for
good and ill... yet basically an intellectual construct, an idea, which by
its nature will resist efforts to restrict it to bureaucrats and others who
deem only themselves worthy of such Privilege."
_ A Thinking Man's Creed for Crypto  _vbm.

 *     Vin McLellan + The Privacy Guild +     *
      53 Nichols St., Chelsea, MA 02150 USA <617> 884-5548





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 04:07:34 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Jury Duty
In-Reply-To: <199812230730.IAA17418@replay.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 2:30 AM -0500 12/23/98, Anonymous wrote:
>In 22 years of being qualified, I am facing my first jury duty summons as
>a regular employee and see no way out except to report. The old
>self-employment, financial burden exemption no longer applies.
>
>Is there a good web site where I can find other legal means to recuse
>myself (I live in AZ), or if I do
>decide to report and get on a trial, a web site on my rights to vote my
>conscious, aka jury nullification?
>
>The other option is to just lie, it says the penalty is that of perjury
>and it seems we shall
>soon have case law that perjury is no longer a crime.
>
>Not a facetious post, I have seen posts here on this before, but never
>really paid attention because it didn't affect me.

	Don't bother, take a book (say Crime & Punishment, or John Lott's
"More Guns, Less Crime, anything hard bound should do). State your opnions
on capital punishment, and on "victimless crime" & drug crimes. Mention
Jury Nullification, and you should be back on the street in an hour.

	Or, you can do your civic duty, get on the jury and do your best to
do what is right.

	I'd suggest the latter.
--
"To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a
jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a
gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather naďve, and certainly
unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust"
http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html

Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro@playboy.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Petro 
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 04:07:27 +0800
To: Vin McLellan 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 1:02 PM -0500 12/23/98, Vin McLellan wrote:
>From: "Bert-Jaap Koops" 
>Organization: Tilburg University
>Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 16:04:37 MET
>Subject: Crypto Law Survey updated - version 14.1
>
>
>I have updated my Crypto Law Survey to version 14.1.
>http://cwis.kub.nl/~frw/people/koops/lawsurvy.htm
>
>INTERNATIONAL
>Wassenaar Arrangement (December 1998 changes)
>
>ASIA & PACIFIC
>China (no use restrictions)

	I think this should read "No written legal restrictions" as the
government there seems to change ANY speech related restrictions on a whim.

	Bloody facists.
--
"To sum up: The entire structure of antitrust statutes in this country is a
jumble of economic irrationality and ignorance. It is a product: (a) of a
gross misinterpretation of history, and (b) of rather naďve, and certainly
unrealistic, economic theories." Alan Greenspan, "Anti-trust"
http://www.ecosystems.net/mgering/antitrust.html

Petro::E-Commerce Adminstrator::Playboy Ent. Inc.::petro@playboy.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "jim finder" 
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 04:26:54 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Good archive of AES algorithms?
Message-ID: <199812232000.MAA22429@law-f115.hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Anonymous writes:
>> Thanks to everyone who responded to me on the AES
>> archive. Most people pointed me to the counterpane.com
>> web site, which is very nice and well done, and answers
>> most of my questions. Unfortunately, though, Counterpane
>> itself is one of the candidates, so the site may not
>> exactly be unbiased. Is there any site with a similar scope
>> being run by a disinterested party?
>
>Apparently you did not see the post which directed you to
>http://www.nist.gov/aes/.  This is the home page for the AES.  It has
>links to independent analyses of the algorithms, as well as performance
>information.  From that page we find:
>
>Block Cipher Lounge
>        http://www.ii.uib.no/~larsr/aes.html
>cAESar Project
>        http://www.dice.ucl.ac.be/crypto/CAESAR/caesar.html
>Efficiency Testing Table
>        http://home.cyber.ee/helger/aes
>Efficiency Testing Results
>        http://www.seven77.demon.co.uk/aes.htm
>Analysis from Louis Granboulan
>        http://www.dmi.ens.fr/~granboul/recherche/AES.html
>NIST's preliminary efficiency testing results
>        http://csrc.nist.gov/encryption/aes/round1/nistefficiency1.pdf

Ah, I was so put off by the big brother process for
requsting a CD that I missed those links. Thanks!

Jim



______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jan Dobrucki 
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 22:17:58 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Polish Telecommunications
Message-ID: <3680ED67.4603C835@qmail.pjwstk.waw.pl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Polish Telecommunications [Telekomunikacja Polska, TP S.A..]

I went to Polish Telecommunications on the 21/12/1998 
[na ul. Zamenhoffa w Warszawie - on Zamenhoff St. in Warsaw] 
and inquired what was being done about the Millennium Bug. 
What I got from a medium important chief was that there was an 
article not long ago about it, the name of the journal escapes me. 
She seemed pretty angry that I even asked about it. What made 
me angry was that she didn't know what was the bloody problem. 
Total ignorance. But I guess Polish Telecommunications are 
going to get a kick out it when the year 2000 finally does arrive.

Later,
Jan Dobrucki a.k.a. jdo


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP Cyber-Knights Templar build 5.5.3ckt
Comment: "Information is Ammunition"
Comment: KeyID: 0x49281659
Comment: Fingerprint: F220 3529 2B65 FA9C  F4DF 5F02 11ED D8BB

iQEVAwUBNn+aCGiR2plJKBZZAQH3twf7BohEfDHGV+mpMILXcY9xGg3E7ZQJrYIz
rLqVDFXwBjmxu+dyGetY05fsUSZRM/uWLpUcyY8rnIoQ/EngXfycrQ8iIHrUVQxD
Jtbfd7JDV1h3XzM0s90LINTvVlCtHCcWTpjzqsOpkMKHiA9NjdpWO+lKphgekHAH
gB15//qPDdtjOv9f4uzs1wonaGWU+sco8EZozGgO3NDZ3qW/rUtl+TmnmvnLXpFi
xPgaZnozQajAO/Bls7SH7oT9BJSEV4+JMUQmNRi61BolOvFE1Io2MUpBjHuCOCii
bHIX+9r3yAfJv+LmVgV61dSIWZIi3npo2yMD72nFtQFTwDrB+cLjTg==
=7cUG
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 05:05:03 +0800
To: bill.stewart@pobox.com (Bill Stewart)
Subject: Re: Question about 'TEMPEST': UPS
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981223120228.009bf320@idiom.com>
Message-ID: <199812232032.OAA03464@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Bill Stewart wrote:
> 
> At 09:39 AM 12/23/98 -0600, Igor Chudov @ home wrote:
> >Just curious, if a computer is connected to the electric power through a UPS,
> >does that reduce emissions leaked into the electrical system?:wq
> 
> It should probably reduce them a bit, depending on your UPS design,
> but if you have to worry about people monitoring your electricity
> for contraband bits, you've got a whole raft of other things
> you'd better start taking care of, like disk encryption and

Very true. I thought about this too. The question that I ask is, 
how much $$ am I worth to whoever might want to snoop at me? And
then I spend money/time (my time is freely convertible to money)
accordingly.

> offsite backups and signs on the door indicating that you
> will or will not shoot at police if they do or do not have warrants....

Well, I personally hate these signs, they are very unfriendly.

> The converse is that if you've got an electrical filtering system
> as part of your TEMPEST protection, whether it's in your computer's
> power supply or separate or both, you tend to have really nice
> clean power feeding your computer, which is a Good Thing.

Hmmm, nice point. 

Now... Just curious, if I simply make my study into a faraday cage via
use of fine (< 1/2 inch) chicken wire, and insulate my power system from
the computer emenations, would that be enough? Chicken wire is not that
expensive, and I think that I could make it look nice on walls.

igor

> 				Thanks! 
> 					Bill
> Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
> PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639
> 



	- Igor.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 07:56:01 +0800
To: Petro 
Subject: Re: I must admit. . .
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981221234722.009bd210@205.83.192.13>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981223151921.00959c30@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 04:41 PM 12/22/98 -0500, Petro wrote:
>If ANTHRAX recipes are so easily obtainable, if it is so easy to make, so
>easy to disseminate, and public knowledge to boot, POST IT HERE, POST IT
>HERE.
>
>24 hour time limit, IF IT IS EASY, You shouldn't have any trouble making
>the deadline now should you? And none of that "I don't want to give away

Well, depending on time zones, I may have just missed your deadline,
but it's pretty close.  It shouldn't be that tough to do - 
get some anthrax*, and go find a flock of sheep and ask for volunteers 
willing to help their country.  Any that don't run away fast enough
will do, so herd them into pens where you can manage them.
Give them some skin cuts and dust them with your starter supply.
When they get infected enough and die, collect the pus from the wounds
and handle it carefully, preferably with gas masks and rubber gloves.
Now that you've replenished your starter supply, deposit the used sheep on the 
Pentagon's front step, light some black candles, ring the doorbell, and run.

Alternatively, if you don't like killing poor cute mammals that are
even dumber than Democrats, you can grow the stuff in Petri dishes.

More seriously, though, anthrax isn't some exotic hard-to-grow disease;
before modern sanitation and plastic brush bristles, there were at least 
occasional problems with anthrax infection in shaving brushes and
hairbrushes made with bristles from infected pigs, and training for barbers
included sterilizing brushes to prevent it.  The trick is in making sure
you don't get infected yourself, and also in manufacturing it in
military quantities and militarily-convenient delivery systems.
If all you're trying to do is smuggle it into the Pentagon cafeteria
or the Yankee Stadium hot dog stands, rather than take out a whole city
like government-employed terrorists do, it's not that tough.

A more appropriate distribution approach would be for a US-based Iraqi
to fire a Stinger missle at one of the US Army's Chemical or Biological
Warfare development facilities.  After all, the White House has announced
that blowing up weapons of mass destruction is a Good Thing....


[ *Anthrax is a naturally-occurring organism, so it's not cheating to
start the process with "get some Anthrax" rather than by synthesizing it.]


				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 08:21:48 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: Re: DOES U.S. INTERVENTION OVERSEAS BREED TERRORISM?
In-Reply-To: <199812231958.UAA08914@replay.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981223155432.009555e0@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>
>According to Secretary of State Madeleine Albright, terrorism is the most
>important threat the United States and the world face as the 21st century
>begins. High-level U.S. officials have  acknowledged that terrorists are now
>more likely to be able to obtain and use nuclear, chemical, and biological
>weapons than ever before. 
>
>
>In fact, the interventionist foreign policy currently pursued by the United
>States is an aberration in its history. Adopting a policy of military
>restraint would return the United States to the traditional foreign policy
>it pursued for the first century and a half of its existence before the Cold
>War distorted it. Such a foreign policy is more compatible with the
>individual freedoms and economic prosperity that define the American way of
>life.
>

While I agree with the need to discourage interventionist foreign policy,
and especially to keep the US from using terrorism as an excuse for further
erosions of civil liberties at home and as an excuse for maintaining
and finding new work for the increasingly-unnecessary standing army,
I have to disagree with the notion that US foreign policy was "restrained" 
for its first 150 years - it was just focused on "our" Western Hemisphere.

The first 40-50 years were primarily occupied with the British,
but also included the Louisiana Purchase and consolidation of control
and wars with the Indian Nations in that territory, plus the
"Monroe Doctrine" which said that the Western Hemisphere was the US's,
and no other colonialism could happen, though we weren't quite ready yet.

But after that, it was open season for the "Manifest Destiny" expansionists,
conquering Northern Mexico (with some Texan help), subjugating any Native 
tribes that the Mexicans hadn't done in, taking the rest of North America
between Canada and the now-smaller Mexico, including Washington and Oregon,
though they were restrained enough not to carry out "54 40' or Fight!".

During the middle of this period, there was that nasty little event,
the Reconquest of the Confederacy.  While the southern states had
seceeded primarily to protect slavery, and the US invasion was
largely driven by nationalists who wanted America to control as
much of North America as it could.

Then there was the Teddy Roosevelt conquest of Spanish Caribbean territory,
with the additional bonus of the Philipines,
and a century of intervention in places like Haiti and Nicaragua
(when did the Marines first go there?  1905?).  Much of US intervention
in Latin America was on behalf of fruit and sugar companies,
just as the conquest of the Kingdom of Hawai'i had been,
and it was only after WWII that they could blame it on Commies.

				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 08:33:31 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Question about 'TEMPEST': UPS
Message-ID: <3681858B.4028@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>
Now... Just curious, if I simply make my study into a faraday cage via
use of fine (< 1/2 inch) chicken wire, and insulate my power system from
the computer emenations, would that be enough? Chicken wire is not that
expensive, and I think that I could make it look nice on walls.
>

The cages I've used were framed in wood and had several layers of copper
screening. The mesh was like standard window screen, <.125". There were
two, I think sometimes three, layers. The corners/joints were copper
sheet. The screen was soldered to the corners. The doors were stepped or
beveled and had several sets of fingers - indside edge, outside edge,
perhaps one intermediate. Screen makes ventilation easier. Power should
be brought in through a separate, partitioned, shielded box with
filtering in each partition. Phone lines, same thing. You trust your
apps, os and TCP/IP stack to not rat you out? If not, work off-line
always.

One cage I saw had ferrite tiles on the solid walls to minimize internal
reflections which would cut down on leakage too.

Al foil if it were thick enough would be OK but how do you reliably join
edges? Al has a bad habit of oxidizing rapidly in air. I guess you could
fold edges over several times - seems tacky.

Converting your study is non-trivial. The door would look like crap. You
would need the euivalent of a door over the window. Build one in your
garage. Make it out of sections so you can move it. 6' x 8' seems about
right for a couple computers and some lab equip. Is the cost justified?

I wouldn't trust 1/2" galvanized chicken wire for containing anything
but chickens or other non-gnawing furry woodland creatures.

Mike




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Gawlick, Thomas" 
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 23:58:46 +0800
To: "'cypherpunks@Algebra.COM>
Subject: First call for papers
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Hi everyone !

Please find the attached first call for papers for a new international
forum for information security. We apologize if you have multiple
receipts of  this message.

We wish you all a joyous Holiday Season and a Happy New Year!

	secunet                             	
	Security Networks GmbH 
	CQRE - Team 




                          First CALL FOR PAPERS
                          --------------------------------------
             CQRE [Secure] Exhibition & Congress
             --------------------------------------------------------
         Nov. 30 - Dec. 2, 1999, Duesseldorf, Germany


CQRE [Secure] Exhibition & Congress provides a new international
forum giving a close-up view on information security in the context
of rapidly evolving economic processes. The unprecedented reliance
on computer technology has transformed the previous technical
side-issue "information security" to a management problem requiring
decisions of strategic importance. Hence, the targeted audience
represents decision makers from government, industry, commercial,
and academic communities.

If you are concerned with solutions relating to the protection of
your country´s information infrastructure or a commercial
enterprise, consider submitting a paper to the CQRE [Secure]
Exhibition & Congress.


We are looking for papers and panel discussions covering:

* ELECTRONIC COMMERCE            * CORPORATE SECURITY
---------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------
- new business processes                 - access control
- secure business transactions          - secure teleworking
- online merchandising                      - enterprise key management
- electronic payment / banking           - IT-audit
- innovative applications                     - risk / disaster
management
* NETWORK SECURITY                   - security awareness and training
---------------------------------------------          - implementation,
accreditation,
- virtual private networks                       and operation of secure
systems
- security aspects in internet                in a government, business,
or
  utilization                                         industry
environment
- security aspects in multi-               * SECURITY TECHNOLOGY
  media-applications
--------------------------------------------------
- intrusion detection systems            - cryptography
* LEGAL ASPECTS                         - public key infrastructures
------------------------------                        - chip card
technology
- digital signature acts                      - biometrics
- privacy and anonymity                   * TRUST MANAGEMENT
- crypto regulation
--------------------------------------------------
- liability                                         - evaluation of
products and systems
		                                         - international
harmonization of
              			        security evaluation criteria
                                                     * STANDARDIZATION
                                                     * FUTURE
PERSPECTIVES

Any other contribution addressing the involving of IT security in
economic processes will also be welcome. Authors are invited to
submit an extended abstract of their contribution to the program
chair. The submissions should be original research results, survey
articles or "high quality" case studies and position papers.
Product advertisements are welcome for presentation, but will not
be considered for the proceedings. Manuscripts must be in English,
and not more than 2.000 words. The extended abstracts should be in
a form suitable for anonymous review, without author's names,
affiliations, acknowledgements or obvious references. Contributions
must not be submitted in parallel to any conference or workshop
that has proceedings. Separately, an abstract of the paper with no
more than 200 words and with title, name and addresses (incl. an
E-mail address) of the authors may be submitted. In case of
multiple authors the contacting author must be clearly identified.
We strongly encourage electronic submission in Postscript format.
The submissions must be in 11pt format, use standard fonts or
include the necessary fonts. Proposals for panel discussions should
also be sent to the program chair. Panels of interest include those
that present alternative/controversial viewpoints or those that
encourage lively discussions of relevant issues. Panels that are
collections of unrefereed papers will not be considered. Panel
proposals should be a minimum of one page describing the subject
matter, the appropriateness of the panel for this conference and
should identify participants and their respective viewpoints.

MAILING LIST:
--------------------------------------
If you want to receive emails with subsequent Call for Papers and
registration information, please send a brief mail to cqre@secunet.de.

WEB SITE:
--------------------------------------
Up to date information about CQRE [Secure] Exhibition & Congress
will be available at http://www.secunet.de/Forum/cqre.html

IMPORTANT DATES:
--------------------------------------
- Deadline for submission of extended abstracts	               May 14,
1999
- Deadline for submission of panel proposals                      June
1,  1999
- Notification of acceptance
June 25, 1999
- Deadline for submission of complete papers                    July 30,
1999

PROGRAM COMMITTEE:
--------------------------------------
Johannes Buchmann                 (TU Darmstadt) 
Dirk Fox                                   (Secorvo) 
Walter Fumy                             (Siemens) 
Rüdiger Grimm                          (GMD) 
Helena Handschuh                    (ENST/Gemplus)
Thomas Hoeren                         (Uni Muenster) 
Pil Joong Lee                            (POSTECH) 
Alfred Menezes                         (U.of Waterloo / Certicom) 
David Naccache                        (Gemplus) 
Clifford Neumann                       (USC) 
Mike Reiter                               (Bell Labs) 
Matt Robshaw                           (RSA) 
Richard Schlechter                    (EU-comm.)
Bruce Schneier                         (Counterpane) 
Tsuyoshi Takagi                        (NTT) 
Yiannis Tsiounis                        (GTE Labs) 
Michael Waidner                       (IBM) 
Moti Yung                                (CERTCO) 
Robert Zuccherato 		(Entrust)

PROGRAM CHAIR: 
--------------------------------------
Rainer Baumgart 
secunet Security Networks GmbH
Weidenauer Str. 223 - 225 
57076 Siegen Germany 
Tel.: +49-271-48950-15 
Fax: +49-271-48950-50 
R.Baumgart@secunet.de





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 09:03:19 +0800
To: Frederick Burroughs 
Subject: Re: Question about 'TEMPEST': UPS
In-Reply-To: <199812232032.OAA03464@manifold.algebra.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981223163005.0082ed70@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 05:21 PM 12/23/98 -0500, Frederick Burroughs wrote:
>Igor Chudov @ home wrote:
>>  Now... Just curious, if I simply make my study into a faraday cage via
>> use of fine (< 1/2 inch) chicken wire, and insulate my power system from
>> the computer emenations, would that be enough? Chicken wire is not that
>> expensive, and I think that I could make it look nice on walls.
>
>How effective is aluminum foil (crinkled and layered)? It's cheap, easy to install
>and remove, and in concert with some halogen lighting, be host to any number of
>suspicious activities.

Neither one will make a dent from a Tempest perspective,
though the foil might disperse heat enough to protect your dope farm :-)
Bettter to build an RF-tight box for your PC and use fiber cables,
and you'll still need to do really special power filtering.

The Army used to use copper screen cages for computers back in the 70s,
which got about 60dB worth of shielding.  When I ran a TEMPEST-shielded
room in the mid-80s, the specs said (roughly) that you needed 100dB
of shielding for a room with computers in it, and the room technology
we used gave about 110-120dB depending on how tight our door gaskets were.
It used particle board with sheet metal on both sides and special
edge/corner joints, and you packed copper-wool into any loose area
and copper tape on any flat areas that had leaks.  

At the time you needed to be very careful about joints between anything,
because RF just _leaks_, and we watched frequencies up to about 450MHz,
since then-current computer equipment didn't have harmonics at
anything like that high a frequency - but it still didn't take much
of a leak to peg the meters, in spite of that being a .6 meter wavelength.
Well, 1.5MIPS Vaxen are a bit out of date now, 300MHz Pentiums are common,
and they've got all sorts of harmonics out there.
If you want a penetration in the walls, e.g. for air or fiber optic cables,
you needed some ratio I've forgotten between the depth and width of the hole;
A two-inch deep hole could be about 1/4" across -- your 1/2" flat chickenwire
would be pretty transparent.

There's newer stuff now - some kind of carbon-fiber cloth with aluminum in it
that's really nice to wallpaper with, but you still need to handle
all the joints, which is tough to do.


Other than protecting your dope farm, tin foil's not real useful,
though I suppose you could line your hat with it to keep microwaves out :-)
What's scary is that I _have_ seen a catalog (mostly NewAgey health scams)
that sold RF-shielded hats; I forget if they were metal-lined or carbon-fiber.
				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 07:28:19 +0800
To: Sunder 
Subject: Re: mobil cctv cameras... sigh...
In-Reply-To: <368168F2.66280E32@brainlink.com>
Message-ID: <199812232138.QAA011.83@whgiii>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



In <368168F2.66280E32@brainlink.com>, on 12/23/98 
   at 05:04 PM, Sunder  said:

>The PATROL CCTV Called MOBILE VISION, is a
>mobile surveillance system, which extends the
>visual perimeter for Law Enforcement, Military,
>Government mobile surveillance requirements and
>for both on and off road driving for SUV
>enthusiasts. A Pan/Tilt/Zoom is compatible with
>in-car video recorders. 

>Stabilizes images, reads license plates at 300FT.
>With a 24X Zoom and 85,000:1 dynamic range
>camera, makes Mobile Vision a unique system. "

All circumvented with a handful of mud. Isn't technology grand. :)

-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
---------------------------------------------------------------





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Sunder 
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 06:20:39 +0800
To: ray@sunder.net
Subject: Roast pesky car theives with a flame thrower!
Message-ID: <368166A6.D950FE25@brainlink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/africa/9812/11/flame.thrower.car/

Don't you wish these were legal in the USA? :)


-- 
----------------------------  Kaos Keraunos Kybernetos  -------------------
 + ^ +        Sunder          "The   real aim  of current policy is to /|\
  \|/    sunder@sunder.net    ensure the continued effectiveness of   /\|/\
<--*--> ALLOW FREE EXPORT OF  US information warfare assets against   \/|\/
  /|\   STRONG CRYPTOGRAPHY!  individuals,businesses and governments   \|/
 + v +  PROTEST WASSENAAR!!!  in Europe and elsewhere"  -- Ross Anderson
------------------------------ http://www.sunder.net ----------------------

RESTRICTED DATA - This material contains RESTRICTED DATA as defined in
the Atomic Energy Act of 1954. Unauthorized disclosure subject to 
administrative and criminal sanctions.  NOFORN ORCON WNINTEL SIOP-ESI CNWDI




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Sunder 
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 06:35:19 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: mobil cctv cameras... sigh...
Message-ID: <368168F2.66280E32@brainlink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



http://www.patrolcctv.com/

"PATROL CCTV:

The PATROL CCTV Called MOBILE VISION, is a
mobile surveillance system, which extends the
visual perimeter for Law Enforcement, Military,
Government mobile surveillance requirements and
for both on and off road driving for SUV
enthusiasts. A Pan/Tilt/Zoom is compatible with
in-car video recorders. 

Stabilizes images, reads license plates at 300FT.
With a 24X Zoom and 85,000:1 dynamic range
camera, makes Mobile Vision a unique system. "


-- 
----------------------------  Kaos Keraunos Kybernetos  -------------------
 + ^ +        Sunder          "The   real aim  of current policy is to /|\
  \|/    sunder@sunder.net    ensure the continued effectiveness of   /\|/\
<--*--> ALLOW FREE EXPORT OF  US information warfare assets against   \/|\/
  /|\   STRONG CRYPTOGRAPHY!  individuals,businesses and governments   \|/
 + v +  PROTEST WASSENAAR!!!  in Europe and elsewhere"  -- Ross Anderson
------------------------------ http://www.sunder.net ----------------------

RESTRICTED DATA - This material contains RESTRICTED DATA as defined in
the Atomic Energy Act of 1954. Unauthorized disclosure subject to 
administrative and criminal sanctions.  NOFORN ORCON WNINTEL SIOP-ESI CNWDI




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 07:17:25 +0800
To: cryptography@c2.net
Subject: http://walkerdigital.com/html/patents.html
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Walker Digital, a self-described "Edison in Menlo Park" knockoff, and
propagator of the priceline.com business model patent (which see, above), is
the feature article of this week's omi-1998-gawd issue of The Industry
Standard.


WD has been patenting everything it can think of, including something I heard
of at least 3 years ago from Eric Hughes and Bob Hilby at Simple Access:
accumulating internet purchases to a 900- telephone number bill. However,
since WD is 5 years old, maybe they got there first after after all, and
that's why Hilby, Hughes and Co., stopped talking about it. Either that or
Eric got Yet Another Big Idea, and they went chasing down *that* rabbithole
instead. As a mostly unmedicated ADDer, I can sympathize with that problem,
myself :-)...


Anyway, since business process patents are the subject of this month's DCSB
meeting, with what I'm sure will be a great talk by Michael Schmelzer and Ira
Heffan of Testa Hurwitz here in Boston, I figured I'd give everyone on these
lists some food for beforehand. People should monitor
, for the actual text of the article, if and when
it eventually hits their archives. It'll probably take a week or so.

If, of course, they don't have a copy of the magazine themselves already, that
is.


William Braddock, who's the chairman and CEO of Priceline now, used to be up
my direct chain of command, three or four bosses up, when I was an operations
analyst at Citicorp 10 years ago, though I never met him.  Eventually, he
ended up President and CEO of Citicorp after I left.

The guys I worked for always used to talk about him reverentually, but that
could just be an organization-man thing. I seem to remember Steve Schear, who
used to work at a different Citicorp company back then, talking lately about
Braddock once or twice, but I can't remember if Schear knew Braddock back then
or not.


Finally, and most important for us, it looks like Bruce Schnier's involved
with Walker Digital as a partner.

Given the cryptographic content of not a few of their patents, (like
5,828,751, "Method for Secure Measurement Certification", or  5,768,832,
"Remote-Auditing of Computer-Generated Outcomes and Authenticated Billing and
Access-Control System Using Cryptographic and Other Protocols") it looks like
that's where he's parking some of his IP these days. But, of course, I haven't
gone to look at the patents themselves to see if his name's on them, so that's
only speculation.

Curioser and curioser.


Reading all of this stuff this afternoon me made me antsy enough, grouchy,
really, to start a rant about this kind of patent-farming, sparked both by all
the registered trademarks in the DigiCash bankruptcy filing, and compounded
all the fun things Walker Digital has gone and patented, things which are
braindead simple. To some people, anyway. :-).

Priceline, for instance, seems to me exactly like the specialist's book at the
New York Stock Exchange, frankly, but since it's now on the internet, it's
patentable, according to the Patent Office.


Anyway, the rant on this is forthcoming, or at least in the hopper, my having
vented a little steam here, and, in the meantime, I thought I'd fire off this
heads-up to everyone so they can read the Industry Standard article
themselves. It's on Page 60 of the December 28 / January 4 issue.

And, tangentally, to plug January 5th's DCSB meeting, of course, :-), which
should be a really good one, in light of current events.


Cheers,
Robert Hettinga

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.5.5

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-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Frederick Burroughs 
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 06:45:57 +0800
To: Cypherpunks 
Subject: Re: Question about 'TEMPEST': UPS
In-Reply-To: <199812232032.OAA03464@manifold.algebra.com>
Message-ID: <36816CF1.F1F7CE34@shentel.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





Igor Chudov @ home wrote:

>  Now... Just curious, if I simply make my study into a faraday cage via
> use of fine (< 1/2 inch) chicken wire, and insulate my power system from
> the computer emenations, would that be enough? Chicken wire is not that
> expensive, and I think that I could make it look nice on walls.

How effective is aluminum foil (crinkled and layered)? It's cheap, easy to install
and remove, and in concert with some halogen lighting, be host to any number of
suspicious activities.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 09:49:40 +0800
To: Igor Chudov 
Subject: Re: Question about 'TEMPEST': UPS
In-Reply-To: <199812240040.SAA07841@manifold.algebra.com>
Message-ID: <36819772.503@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Igor,

These were commercial cages used in the consumer products design
business. Things like radios, TVs, 900MHz cordless phones etc...do I
know for a fact that two or three layers of fine mesh copper ( BTW about
an inch apart ) were necessary? No. I just took the word of the guys who
had been doing the stuff for years. It wouldn't surprise me if the
commercial cages were overkill. Neither would I be surprised if anything
less leaked significantly. RFI is not an easy subject area. Find a
commercial cage vendor and talk to an apps eng.

Lacking an actual test facility, I suppose a really basic test would be
to use a hand-held AM radio tuned to a space between stations and try
out your PC with and without a chicken-wire cage. Sometimes a particular
piece of SW will have a pattern that you can recognize, maybe following
a keypress. I've been able to differentiate between button scan,
watchdog, servos, processor etc... It's a relatively cheap, quick
experiment. Try different frequencies and orientations of the ferrite
loop antenna. For higher frequencies ( CPU clocks + other harmonics )
you'll need other methods. I've been meaning to take a look at a
standard PC keyboard. Someday soon...if I do I'll let you know what I
find.

As for looks - tough - a PC generates lots of RFI, a partially
functional cage is probably worse than none at all because of the false
sense of security.

Trying to shield the computer and the monitor is an entirely different
can of worms. Probably an order of magnitude harder than making a good
cage.

Regards,
Mike

In real life even the easy things are not easy.

Igor Chudov @ home wrote:
> 
> Michael Motyka wrote:
> >
> >
> > >
> > Now... Just curious, if I simply make my study into a faraday cage via
> > use of fine (< 1/2 inch) chicken wire, and insulate my power system from
> > the computer emenations, would that be enough? Chicken wire is not that
> > expensive, and I think that I could make it look nice on walls.
> > >
> >
> > The cages I've used were framed in wood and had several layers of copper
> > screening. The mesh was like standard window screen, <.125". There were
> > two, I think sometimes three, layers. The corners/joints were copper
> 
> Michael,
> 
> Was the amount of work involved really necessary? What do three layers
> accomplish compared to just one?
> 
> > sheet. The screen was soldered to the corners. The doors were stepped or
> > beveled and had several sets of fingers - indside edge, outside edge,
> > perhaps one intermediate. Screen makes ventilation easier. Power should
> > be brought in through a separate, partitioned, shielded box with
> > filtering in each partition. Phone lines, same thing. You trust your
> > apps, os and TCP/IP stack to not rat you out? If not, work off-line
> > always.
> 
> Right.
> 
> > Al foil if it were thick enough would be OK but how do you reliably join
> > edges?
> 
> Glue? Perhaps some weak glue that would not destroy the underlying paint.
> 
> > Converting your study is non-trivial. The door would look like crap. You
> > would need the euivalent of a door over the window.
> 
> My window has a mesh on it. Is that not enough?
> 
> > I wouldn't trust 1/2" galvanized chicken wire for containing anything
> > but chickens or other non-gnawing furry woodland creatures.
> 
> Is that confirmed by evidence?
> 
> The reason for my question, I think that I somewhat value TEMPEST
> protection, but not enough as to cover my whole room with expensive and
> ugly looking copper or three layers of mesh and ferrite. I don't want
> all of it to be too conspicious.
> 
>         - Igor.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 08:01:01 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Break the code...from RSA [CNN]
Message-ID: <199812232356.RAA12783@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> X-within-URL: http://www.cnn.com/TECH/computing/9812/23/codecrack.idg/

>                        RSA WANTS YOU TO CRACK THIS CODE
>                                        
>     [INLINE]
>    
>    December 23, 1998
>    Web posted at: 10:30 AM EST
>    
>    by Rebecca Sykes
>    
>    (IDG) -- RSA Data Security will host another contest to break the U.S.
>    government's Data Encryption Standard at the RSA Data Security
>    Conference in San Jose, Calif., in January.
>    
>    The 56-bit DES encryption algorithm is widely used and has been broken
>    in the contest before, most recently in July in a record three days.

[text deleted]


    ____________________________________________________________________

          What raises the standard of living may well diminish the
          quality of life.

                                                 The Club of Rome

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Paul H. Merrill" 
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 07:40:54 +0800
To: "Brown, R Ken" 
Subject: Re: Question about 'TEMPEST'
In-Reply-To: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE20313FB44@MSX11002>
Message-ID: <36817918.68EF807C@ACM.Org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



The details of TEMPEST are classified, but details of reduction of
emmissions are not.  After all, those little FCC notices on your
equipment these days are regarding emmissions.  'Tis all a matter of
degree.

PHM 

Brown, R Ken wrote:
> 
> Tim May wrote:
> 
> > The full TEMPEST specs are more or less classified, as might
> > be expected. (Because one does not lightly tell one's enemies
> >  what one is measuring for.)
> 
> > Contrary to popular rumor, it is not "illegal" to shield
> >  computers, to "use TEMPEST methods," as it were.
> 
> Rather hard to see how it could be, given that the details are supposed to
> be secret!  If all of a sudden you got arrested for wrapping wet towels
> around screens that would be a Big Clue....
> 
> (of course that assumes you live in a country where you get told what you;ve
> been arrested for. Hmmmm....)
> 
> Ken




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 09:08:47 +0800
To: mmotyka@lsil.com
Subject: Re: Question about 'TEMPEST': UPS
In-Reply-To: <3681858B.4028@lsil.com>
Message-ID: <199812240040.SAA07841@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Michael Motyka wrote:
> 
> 
> >
> Now... Just curious, if I simply make my study into a faraday cage via
> use of fine (< 1/2 inch) chicken wire, and insulate my power system from
> the computer emenations, would that be enough? Chicken wire is not that
> expensive, and I think that I could make it look nice on walls.
> >
> 
> The cages I've used were framed in wood and had several layers of copper
> screening. The mesh was like standard window screen, <.125". There were
> two, I think sometimes three, layers. The corners/joints were copper

Michael,

Was the amount of work involved really necessary? What do three layers
accomplish compared to just one?

> sheet. The screen was soldered to the corners. The doors were stepped or
> beveled and had several sets of fingers - indside edge, outside edge,
> perhaps one intermediate. Screen makes ventilation easier. Power should
> be brought in through a separate, partitioned, shielded box with
> filtering in each partition. Phone lines, same thing. You trust your
> apps, os and TCP/IP stack to not rat you out? If not, work off-line
> always.

Right.

> Al foil if it were thick enough would be OK but how do you reliably join
> edges? 

Glue? Perhaps some weak glue that would not destroy the underlying paint.

> Converting your study is non-trivial. The door would look like crap. You
> would need the euivalent of a door over the window.

My window has a mesh on it. Is that not enough?

> I wouldn't trust 1/2" galvanized chicken wire for containing anything
> but chickens or other non-gnawing furry woodland creatures.

Is that confirmed by evidence?

The reason for my question, I think that I somewhat value TEMPEST
protection, but not enough as to cover my whole room with expensive and
ugly looking copper or three layers of mesh and ferrite. I don't want
all of it to be too conspicious.

	- Igor.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 09:55:50 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Question about 'TEMPEST': UPS (fwd)
Message-ID: <199812240152.TAA13324@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 17:22:58 -0800
> From: Michael Motyka 
> Subject: Re: Question about 'TEMPEST': UPS

> These were commercial cages used in the consumer products design

Someplace you might want to check into about actual real-world cage design
and computers is Cray.

When I worked at UT Austin and we put in the comp center at the Balconese
Research Center it had a wire mesh cage installed per spec by Cray for the
X-MP & Y-MP.

It would not surprise me if they didn't have some literture and design
guides available.


    ____________________________________________________________________

          What raises the standard of living may well diminish the
          quality of life.

                                                 The Club of Rome

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Alex Alten 
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 13:21:33 +0800
To: Dave Del Torto 
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981223195440.00b29970@mail>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>Please excuse the crosspost, but does anyone know *who* generated and/or
>owns these keys?
>

This is yet another a good example of why one should never confuse using PK 
certificates with security.  An email PGP signature looks impressive but in
practice it is useless.

- Alex

--

Alex Alten

Alten@Home.Com
Alten@TriStrata.Com

P.O. Box 11406
Pleasanton, CA  94588  USA
(925) 417-0159




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 03:56:02 +0800
To: jim_finder@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Good archive of AES algorithms?
Message-ID: <199812231930.UAA06278@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> Thanks to everyone who responded to me on the AES
> archive. Most people pointed me to the counterpane.com
> web site, which is very nice and well done, and answers
> most of my questions. Unfortunately, though, Counterpane
> itself is one of the candidates, so the site may not
> exactly be unbiased. Is there any site with a similar scope
> being run by a disinterested party?

Apparently you did not see the post which directed you to
http://www.nist.gov/aes/.  This is the home page for the AES.  It has
links to independent analyses of the algorithms, as well as performance
information.  From that page we find:

Block Cipher Lounge
        http://www.ii.uib.no/~larsr/aes.html
cAESar Project
        http://www.dice.ucl.ac.be/crypto/CAESAR/caesar.html
Efficiency Testing Table
        http://home.cyber.ee/helger/aes
Efficiency Testing Results
        http://www.seven77.demon.co.uk/aes.htm
Analysis from Louis Granboulan
        http://www.dmi.ens.fr/~granboul/recherche/AES.html
NIST's preliminary efficiency testing results
        http://csrc.nist.gov/encryption/aes/round1/nistefficiency1.pdf




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 03:56:16 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: jury duty
Message-ID: <199812231931.UAA06366@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 08:30 AM 12/23/98 +0100, Anonymous wrote:
>In 22 years of being qualified, I am facing my first jury duty summons as
a regular employee and see no way out except to report. The old
self-employment, financial burden exemption no longer applies.

Your employer is not obligated to pay you during your arbitrarily-long
court slavery, BTW.

See: Fully Informed Jury Amendment 
	www.fija.org

Since snailmail is datagrams, how do they know you received their packet?

Remember that you aren't obligated to explain your reasons any more
than the barbarians are obligated to be reasonable.

>If no answers, I will resort to a search engine. But I thought this letter
would get me better
>quality advice.

I wonder if its a crime yet to refer you to FIJA.  You can get
busted in Calif for distributing FIJA materials near a court.

Don't stand out and you can accomplish more subversion.








  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 04:07:42 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Jury Duty
Message-ID: <199812231944.UAA07759@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Wed, 23 Dec 1998, Anonymous wrote:

> In 22 years of being qualified, I am facing my first jury duty summons as a regular employee and see no way out except to report. The old self-employment, financial burden exemption no longer applies.
> 
> Is there a good web site where I can find other legal means to recuse myself (I live in AZ), or if I do
> decide to report and get on a trial, a web site on my rights to vote my conscious, aka jury nullification?

Tell them the following:

"I am aware of the doctrine of jury nullification and I will inform my
 fellow jurors of it.  I will invoke it in cases where the defendant
 has been charged with a victimless crime, i.e. drug-related offenses,
 statutory rape, or other thoughtcrime, or when the law is otherwise
 unjust or unreasonable."

The prosecutor won't touch you with a 10 foot pole.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 04:38:13 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: DOES U.S. INTERVENTION OVERSEAS BREED TERRORISM?
Message-ID: <199812231958.UAA08914@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





Executive Summary 

According to Secretary of State Madeleine Albright, terrorism is the most
important threat the United States and the world face as the 21st century
begins. High-level U.S. officials have  acknowledged that terrorists are now
more likely to be able to obtain and use nuclear, chemical, and biological
weapons than ever before. 

Yet most attention has been focused on combating terrorism by deterring and
disrupting it beforehand and retaliating against it after the fact. Less
attention has been paid to what motivates terrorists to launch attacks.
According to the Pentagon's Defense Science Board, a strong correlation
exists between U.S. involvement in international situations and an increase
in terrorist attacks against the United States. President Clinton has also
acknowledged that link. The board, however, has provided no empirical data
to support its conclusion. This paper fills that gap by citing many examples
of terrorist attacks on the United States in retaliation for U.S.
intervention overseas.  The numerous incidents cataloged suggest that the
United States could reduce the chances of such devastating--and potentially
catastrophic--terrorist attacks by adopting a policy of military restraint
overseas. 


In fact, the interventionist foreign policy currently pursued by the United
States is an aberration in its history. Adopting a policy of military
restraint would return the United States to the traditional foreign policy
it pursued for the first century and a half of its existence before the Cold
War distorted it. Such a foreign policy is more compatible with the
individual freedoms and economic prosperity that define the American way of
life.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Kevlar 
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 13:58:29 +0800
To: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov)
Subject: Re: Question about 'TEMPEST': UPS
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19981223213018.00989c20@max-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 09:39 AM 12/23/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Just curious, if a computer is connected to the electric power through a UPS,
>does that reduce emissions leaked into the electrical system?:wq
>

While I can't anwser that question, I do know of a technique where you look
at the rises and falls in resistance on an ic (like a cpu, or other
microprosser) and be able to tell what instructions were being executed.
The problem was that you needed to

A) Know what instructions were being executed so you could assign them to
different patterns (calibrate first).

B) Do A every time you switch ic's. (recalibrate every time you change ic's)

Of corse you need a clean power supply to begin with, and some way to
measure nearly imperceptable changes in resistance.

There once was a file I read on "Real Programmers (substutite with any
computer profession).
This is from my memory so don't quote me:
"
Real Programmers don't eat quiche.
They eat microwave popcorn.

Real Programmers don't pop their microwave popcorn in microwaves.
They use the heat of the cpu.

Real Programmers don't use Gate Emulators.
They can tell what instruction is being executed at any given time by the
rate of the popcorn popping.
"

I thought it was appropiate.

-Kevlar


Does God know Peano Algebra? Or does she not care if strong atheists
couldnt reason their way out of a trap made of Boolean presumptions?

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing, but zero knowlege is
absolutely subversive.

Overspecialization breeds in weakness. It's a slow death.

Beat your algorithms into swords, your dumb terminals into shields, and
turn virtual machines into battlefields... Let the weak say, "I am strong"
and question authority. 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 11:42:17 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Expansion of handgun bans? [CNN]
Message-ID: <199812240339.VAA13582@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> X-within-URL: http://www.cnn.com/US/9812/23/gun.study/

>    
>                    EXPAND THE HANDGUN BAN? STUDY DRAWS FIRE
>                                        
>    guns December 23, 1998
>    Web posted at: 4:28 p.m. EST (2128 GMT)
>    
>     In this story:
>      * Misdemeanor convictions linked to future crimes
>      * Critic: Study flawed
>      * Related stories and sites
>        
>    
>    
>    CHICAGO (CNN) -- It's legal in the United States for a person
>    convicted of a misdemeanor to buy a handgun. But, according to a study
>    being challenged as flawed, such purchasers are more likely than those
>    without a criminal record to commit a crime and should be barred from
>    buying handguns, just as felons are.
>    
>    The study was published Wednesday in the Journal of the American
>    Medical Association.

[text deleted]


    ____________________________________________________________________

          What raises the standard of living may well diminish the
          quality of life.

                                                 The Club of Rome

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 11:33:47 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: http://walkerdigital.com/html/patents.html
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 15:18:40 -0800 (PST)
From: 
To: rah@shipwright.com
Subject: Re: http://walkerdigital.com/html/patents.html
Status: U

IMHO, the patent office has no clue what the hell they're doing.  Maybe
it is time we do away with patents and let people who feel ripped off rely
the courts for restitution.

I have always thought that patents were to protect the inventor from
being ripped off.  However, i now find that:

1. patents are slowing down progress, since someone with a better idea
can't use that idea since somehow, any incarnation of the patented idea,
however different it may be, is covered by the broadness of the patent,
thanks to some high paid lawyer.

2. patents are meant for "inventions", not ideas.  Ideas are getting
patented everyday.  I know of many.  Why do I consider them ideas and
not inventions?  Because the patented "thing" isn't available.  There is
a description of how it will work, what it will do and how someone could
build it, in a million different ways, if they could figure out the tiny
details themselves, since that is the part missing.  But can you go
anywhere and touch the invention, or see it operate or use it in some
manner, however preliminary?  No.

I still have the folder that E*Data sent me four or more years ago,
stating:  We would rather license than litigate.  Here is a list of
companies we've sued.  You'd look through the paperwork and everything
was spelled out except what you would get from them if you licensed
their patent, other than permission.  You remember E-Data?  Where are
they now?  Well they had a big blow a few months ago to their silly
patent.

All in all, I don't think patents help the small inventor any more.
Those who can afford it, tell a lawyer what they are thinking and in
60-90 days, the attorney will have filed a patent with no more than a
few follow-up phone calls or faxes.  Those who can't afford it will
continue to be robbed of their inventions.

My rant.

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 11:29:13 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Merry Christmas from 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Now, *this* is curious...

Anyone, especially from C2NET, wanna take a shot at the following?

I think I can tell him what CTO means ;-), but what about the rest?

Cheers,
RAH
--- begin forwarded text


From: Somebody
To: 
Subject: Merry Christmas from 
Date: 
Status: U

Dear Rob Hettinga 
 
Merry Christmas and a happy new year! 
Hi, my name is 
I hope you remember me from FC98. 
 
I am trying to find out what is happening with C2net.
I heard a rumor that C2net had corporate restructuring and Sameer quit
CEO and became CTO.  What is CTO anyway?
Also, there was a rumor that someone who was in charge of the development
of the SSL
in Australia quit working for C2net.
Does this have to do with Sameer's announcement of the OpenSSL project? 
I really need to know this.  Please reply to my e-mail if you know anything
about it.
Thank you. 
 

 


--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 12:04:31 +0800
To: ichudov@Algebra.COM (Igor Chudov)
Subject: Re: Question about 'TEMPEST': UPS
In-Reply-To: <3681858B.4028@lsil.com>
Message-ID: <199812240342.WAA20762@camel8.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



For a new type of RF shielding consider "Flectron"
a metallized fabric that allegedly shields up to 100db. 
Originally developed by Monsanto it has recently been 
bought by Advanced Performance Materials (which 
also makes a range of EMI-related products):

   http://www.apm-emi.com/

Another company, BEMA, Inc. offers portable enclosures
made mostly of Flectron for TEMPEST protection, with
RF-protected doors, vents, and electrical and cable
connections. One is a walk-in, 6 x 6 x 7, weighs 125 lbs.
and fits in two suitcases for transport. And there's a desktop 
version. These are reportedly in use by NSA, other TLAs, 
the military and corporations. There's a brief description at:

   http://www.martykaiser.com/bema1.htm

The market in TEMPEST-related products is rapidly
growing. Check AltaVista under that term or, say,
NSA 65-6 and MIL-STD-285. There's more material
appearing all the time as the word gets out on the
need for RF-protection. 

We've heard from manufacturers that the demand for 
their shielding products is increasing for medical purposes 
-- some related to those dreaded signals being received 
by teeth and brain. Flectron clothing and bed shrouding 
are in the works.

To be sure, Joel McNamara's TEMPEST Web site remains 
the best of all unclassified sources:

   http://www.eskimo.com/~joelm/tempest.html






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Pallas Anonymous Remailer 
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 15:56:06 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: bug recipes
Message-ID: <0c21a12a18cbe07b583b092c04c69544@anonymous>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>..someone describes the use of mutton for anthrax >breeding..
>
>The mils are already vaccinated, so anthrax is >passe.  What you *really* want to do is dig up a >smallpox victim...

The only Mils vaccinated are the ones going into saudi and bosnia and other High-threat area's. They will not be fully vac'ed for another 3-5 years. 
As far as smallpox...I'd just as soon that shit NEVER get dug up. I somehow doubt a skeleton could harbor usable smallpox but I am not up on my biology tonight.
 --Skrill




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 07:34:51 +0800
To: gbroiles@netbox.com
Subject: Re: Jury Duty
Message-ID: <199812232303.AAA23676@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Greg Broiles writes:

>If you really do want to avoid jury service, mentioning FIJA or jury
>nullification ought to do the trick - it may get every juror within
>earshot excused, too, depending on how paranoid the locals are. 
>
>But I think that's a horrible idea - jury participation is an opportunity
>to exercise much more influence than you wield if/when you vote in an
>election. All by yourself, voting your conscience as shaped by the
>evidence and the jury instructions, you can force a mistrial, which might
>or might not mean the end of the case. If your view of the evidence and
>your understanding of the law, as explained by the judge in the jury
>instructions, proves to be persuasive to your fellow jurors, you will
>collectively make the law as it applies to the parties in your trial. It's
>pretty difficult to overturn a jury verdict - not impossible, but it's
>harder than you might think from watching TV.

Be aware that concealing your opinions on this matter can get you into
hot water.  Juror Laura Kriho was convicted of obstruction of justice
for not revealing that she believed in jury nullification, during the
selection process.  Kriho has appealed.  More information is at
http://home.utah-inter.net/don-tiggre/jrp.krihotoc.htm.

The judge's ruling, at http://www.eagle-access.net/index3.html:

:} After reviewing all the evidence and the law, and applying the standard
:} of proof beyond a reasonable doubt, the Court reaches the following
:} conclusions.  During the jury selection process Ms. Kriho was aware that
:} the trial court and the lawyers felt it was a juror's duty to follow the
:} law as given by the trial court, and they wanted to know if any juror
:} disagreed with this proposition. Ms. Kriho was also aware that the trial
:} court and the parties wanted to know if the jurors could follow the rule
:} that punishment was not to enter into their deliberations. Ms. Kriho
:} was also aware that the trial court and the parties wanted to know if
:} the jurors could follow the rule that punishment was not to enter into
:} their deliberations. Ms. Kriho was also aware that the trial court and
:} the parties wanted to know if any juror had strong feelings concerning
:} the enforcement of drug laws or any experience that would affect their
:} attitude about drug laws. While being aware of the importance of these
:} issues and having been given the opportunity to comment on these issues,
:} Ms. Kriho deliberately withheld her opinions on these topics from the
:} trial court and the parties during the jury selection process. Based on
:} all the evidence, this Court concludes that it was Ms. Kriho's intent to
:} withhold this information from the trial court and the parties so that
:} she could be selected to serve on the jury and obstruct the judicial
:} process. By deliberately withholding this information, she obstructed
:} the process of selecting a fair and impartial jury. The selection of
:} jurors who have open minds and who have not preconceived the verdict
:} is essential for a fair trial. Ms. Kriho's lack of candor about her
:} experiences and attitudes led to the selection of a jury doomed to
:} mistrial from the start. This Court finds this conduct constitutes
:} obstruction of justice and this conduct was offensive to the authority
:} and dignity of the trial court.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "uhm, yeah.." 
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 16:41:01 +0800
To: nobody@replay.com
Subject: Re: bug recipes
Message-ID: <19981224081650.17846.qmail@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>
>..someone describes the use of mutton for anthrax breeding..
>

What?

>The mils are already vaccinated, so anthrax is passe.  What
>you *really* want to do is dig up a smallpox victim...
>

You must have a lot of time on your hands, eh?

>

- neotek



______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: pgut001@cs.auckland.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 22:31:41 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: New synonym for GAK
Message-ID: <91441354017946@cs26.cs.auckland.ac.nz>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Another one to add to the list:
 
>U.S. approves export of crypto product without key recovery
>      
>EE Times       
>(12/22/98, 4:13 p.m. EDT)
>                         
>RICHARDSON, Texas. Network security specialists ODS Networks Inc. has won 
>government approval to export its strong encryption products to companies in 
>42 countries without a government-backed key recovery feature.        
>                
>ODS said it is the first U.S. company to receive a blanket export license 
>from the Department of Commerce to ship its crypto product. The government 
>strictly controls the export of encryption products with a key-recovery 
>feature and key lengths of 112, 128 or 1,024 bits.
>              
>The ODS products use an alternate "stream recovery" feature that allows users 
>to protect encrypted data. The company said its stream recovery scheme helps 
>resolve conflicting requirements for privacy and monitoring.
>          
>ODS said its objective was to introduce a monitoring capability that protects 
>the rights of innocent third parties in criminal investigations.
 
Their PR which was sent to several crypto mailing lists earlier today was 
conveniently cut off just before the GAK paragraph (and in any case they 
weren't lying, just being economical with the truth).
 
Peter.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bernies 
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 18:29:51 +0800
To: 
Subject: We pay you to host our banner
Message-ID: <419.436153.74761794email_tool@yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



You got this email because you address have added into our database by 
you or someone. If you don't want to got this email any more, simply send 
a blank email with REMOVE at subject to us.

Thanks because reading this mail, now you can earn one dollar ($ 1.00 ) just hold a banner at you site.
If someone fill out a form form you web site and you will get $1.00. Very simple and easy.

For more information or you want to join us, pls email to us at email_tool@yahoo.com or 
burnerutm@hotmail.com iwth subject headline :BANNER HOLDER

Thanks
Bernies




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 12:35:00 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: bug recipes
Message-ID: <199812240402.FAA17735@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



..someone describes the use of mutton for anthrax breeding..

The mils are already vaccinated, so anthrax is passe.  What
you *really* want to do is dig up a smallpox victim...








  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 12:37:57 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: ruskies on crypto
Message-ID: <199812240413.FAA18580@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



http://www.jmls.edu/cyber/docs/ruscrypt.html
DECREE OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION

Concerning legal matters in the area of development, production, sale and
usage of encoding devices, and also for the assignment of responsibility
concerning the encoding of information



http://www.emoney.ru/eng/about/our_publications.htm
Our publications
"What is "Digital Money" A.I.Demidov, C.V.Preobrazhensky. "Planet
Internet", 1997, July, Russian. 
"Cryptography basics" A.I.Demidov. "Internet World" #7(10), 1997, July.
Russian. 
"Internet commerce" A.I.Demidov. "Itogi" (JV with "Newsweek") #24(57),
1997, June. Russian. 
"The main types of Internet payment systems" A.I.Demidov "Internet World"
#6(9), 1997, June. Russian. 
"Digital Cash" A.I.Demidov. "CardWorld" #8, 1997, May. Russian. 
"Information site: www.emoney.ru" C.V.Preobrazhensky. ROCIT workshop
"Electronic commerce and Internet payment systems", 1997, April. Russian. 
"Ways of Internet payment systems development in Russia" A.I.Demidov. ROCIT
workshop "Electronic commerce and Internet payment systems", 1997, April.
Russian. 
"What is digital money?" A.I.Demidov. "Money" #8(116), 1997, March. Russian. 



http://www.fortunecity.com/skyscraper/coding/379/lesson1.htm
CLASSICAL CRYPTOGRAPHY COURSE







  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Frederick Burroughs 
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 21:52:04 +0800
To: Cypherpunks 
Subject: Re: Question about 'TEMPEST': UPS
In-Reply-To: <3681858B.4028@lsil.com>
Message-ID: <36823E24.99771ACE@shentel.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





John Young wrote:

>  We've heard from manufacturers that the demand for
> their shielding products is increasing for medical purposes
> -- some related to those dreaded signals being received
> by teeth and brain. Flectron clothing and bed shrouding
> are in the works.

Something akin to the mosquito netting draped over beds in the tropics?
I live in a mountain valley. Once mined for iron ore, compasses are
unreliable here. TV reception was limited to watching the ant races.
Radio was squelchy and drift prone. Signals could not bore through the
mountain's heart of iron. The voices went away. The sky was a vacuum,
pressure was relieved.

But lately rf has been falling from the sky, the heavy signal moisture
causes fungi, slate-grey disks, to sprout from the roofs and sides of
homes. The conditions have caused a fungal bloom. Spores rain down into
the valley, collide, bounce and ricochet into a storm.

The disease pressure is high. My head's a sensurround, Imax theater of
voices and images that never fucking stop. Surely some protective
prophylaxis is called for, maybe something as cheap as a plastic grocery
bag, but this is no guaranty. Coffins manufactured to the highest
Tempest standard may attenuate the signal strength enough to prevent
reanimation of the corpses. Bodies are sealed in composite fiber
radomes, designed to reflect and absorb the offensive radiation.  Some
choose incineration to escape the influx, mixing incinerate with
powdered ferrite to achieve some measure of final rest.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 07:34:30 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <03e63d7f660781fa4c3b078108512b13@anonymous>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Navy ordinace personnel always to have a keen sense of irony
and, therefore, a fine sense of humor.

On Cohen.  Well, he affirms his belief in his coic.  What else
needs to be said?  This press statement does sound like Algore though.
Maybe the two have been spending too much time together or drinking
from the same fruit bowl. ;)

anon y. mous




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 23:13:19 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Is Sameer/C2net Attempting to subvert the OpenSSL and Mod-ssl projects
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199812241350.IAA017.59@whgiii>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



In , on 12/24/98 
   at 05:25 PM, Anonymous  said:

>To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
>cc:
>Subject: OpenSSL and C2Nets attempted subversion of same(Sameers track
>record --------
>On the Subject of Sameers record with open source

>  mod_ssl.c(this was the component that Sameer wishes wasnt
>available(and did his best to deny to his customers) and indeed was quite
>sucessful in preventing its availability until Ralf Engleschall's mod_ssl
>becam available... This is the REAL reason C2net took a nose dive...) and
>now it appears Sameer is trying to co-opt that project also.

>I trust Ben Laurie and Ralf... They developed the code .

>I DONT trust Sameer... he is simply a privateer, he takes sources and
>trys to restrict availability so he can make a profit from Intellectual
>Property NOT developed by him...
>I specifically suspect his announcement coming on the heels of Ben's. I
>dont think this person will ever get a clue about either Open Source or
>GPL.


I must have missed this one. Could anyone provide some greater detail on
what the mod_ssl.c issue was with Sameer & C2Net?


FWIW I have a couple of projects that I am working on that are dependent
on the SSLeay Libs. If I don't like the way Sameer or C2Net is going with
this I will just continue my own development on the Libs.

-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
---------------------------------------------------------------





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 23:51:53 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: SCC's SmartFilter Bans Crypto/Privacy Website(s) as Naughty, not Nice?
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 03:59:49 -0500
To: cryptography@C2.net
From: Vin McLellan 
Subject: SCC's SmartFilter Bans Crypto/Privacy Website(s) as Naughty, not
 Nice?
Sender: owner-coderpunks@toad.com

	This is an amazing story!  Security Computing Corporation
 sells a content filter ("SmartFilter") which is used
to restrict web access from within corporations and other organizations.

	Lauren Weinstein, the moderator of the widely respected Privacy
Forum, a mailing list and website on the Internet at
, recently reported that for over a year (see the
attached post) corporate employees at sites which use SCC's SmartFilter
have typically been restricted from accessing the Privacy Forum website or
archives because the Privacy Forum's occasional discussion of cryptography.

	These discussions -- no code, all high-level discussions of civil
and ethical values, policy, and crypto politics -- were apparently enough
to define the Privacy Forum website as a repository of "criminal skill."

	Some SCC corporate customers, according to Weinstein, had
explicitly asked for crypto resource sites on the web to be defined as
off-limits. It is still unclear how those requests (one from the corporate
site which brought the matter to Weinstein's attention) resulted in SCC
staff labelling the Privacy Forum website -- along with, one must presume,
many _many_ others --  as a repository of criminal skills.  (Other sites
which fall into this SmartFilter category include, for example, websites
which make available information about what ingredients can be used to make
a bomb. Shades of Wassenaar and ITAR.)

	What is amazing, of course, is that Secure Computing is one of the
more sophisticated  vendors in computer security. There are a lot of smart
people at SCC who will doubtless cringe when they hear this story.

	It may, in fact, seem hilarious to some of them that SCC's website
evaluation staff (and the web filters they use to express and embody their
judgements) could categorize a privacy site as "criminal" just because it
archives discussions of cryptography and crypto politics. Some of the best
of those discussions, for instance, may have involved SCC employees like
cryptographer Rick Smith;-)

	What is _really_ sad is that -- when Weinstein complained that a
website categorized as offering "criminal skills" by SCC's SmartFilter
staff may, with no recourse, suffer irrepreparable harm -- the best and
most daring response SCC could come up with was to promise to set up a
website at which organizations and commercial entities could query the SCC
database to see how SCC's website evaluators labelled them.

	(This, of course, presumes these organizations hear about SCC's
Smartfilter product.... It also presumes that representatives of those
agencies, firms, or organizations feel compelled to inquire to see if SCC's
professional moralists labelled them in some similarly eccentric category.)

	Not exactly clear on the concept, those clever SmartFilter folk.

	Frankly, not in a million years would anyone outside of the bowels
of the Hoover Building consider crypto savvy (or an obsession with privacy)
as inherently "criminal."  Not yet anyway.

	I do hope that SCC has sold a few thousand copies of SmartFilter
which  routinely block corporate employee access to some feisty, litigious,
and well-networked civil libertarian groups like the ACLU, EPIC, CDT, or PI
as repositories of Criminal Skills.  Oh, yes indeed!

	In fact, if the Privacy Forum was labelled as "criminal" because of
an ocassional discussion of crypto, does it make sense that the websites of
SDTI/RSA,  Entrust, IBM, MS, Netscape, et al, eluded the ban and some
similar label? Inquiring Minds wanna to know.

	The SmartFilter has been awarded "certification" by the
International Computer Security Association's testing labs:
. The SmartFilter data sheet is at:
http://www.securecomputing.com/P_Tool_SF_Docs.html and there is a white
paper at: http://www.securecomputing.com/sfwhitep.pdf
SCC provides SmartFilter access controls adapted for both Unix and Windows
NT, as well as for the Microsoft Proxy Server, the Netscape Proxy Server,
several firewalls, the CSM Proxy Server, the NetCache Proxy Server, and the
Squid Proxy Server.

	Feliz Navidad,

		_Vin

------- original message -----------------

> From:	privacy@vortex.com [SMTP:privacy@vortex.com]
> Sent:	Sunday, December 20, 1998 4:58 PM
> To:	PRIVACY-Forum-List@vortex.com
> Subject:	PRIVACY Forum Digest V07 #21
>
> PRIVACY Forum Digest      Sunday, 20 December 1998      Volume 07 : Issue
> 21
>
[...]
>
> Date:    Wed, 16 Dec 98 12:25 PST
> From:    lauren@vortex.com (Lauren Weinstein; PRIVACY Forum Moderator)
> Subject: Privacy Discussions Classified as a "Criminal Skill"
>
> Greetings.  Is discussing privacy in the PRIVACY Forum a criminal skill?
> According to one widely used commercial web filtering tool, the answer was
> yes!  The controversy over software to block access to particular sites,
> based on perceived content, has been continuing to rage.  Attempts to
> mandate the use of such software in environments such as libraries and
> schools have raised a variety of serious concerns.  In addition to fairly
> straightforward freedom of speech issues, another factor revolves around
> how accurate (or inaccurate) these filtering systems really are.
>
> I've now seen firsthand that errors by a filtering system can indeed be quite
> serious, an event that seems to certainly validate some of these concerns.
> But there is something of a silver lining to the story, as we'll see
> later.
>
> I recently was contacted by someone at a large corporation, who was trying
> to reach the PRIVACY Forum web site, which is constantly being referenced by
> individuals and commercial, educational, government, and other sites around
> the world.  This person was upset since whenever they attempted to reach
> the http://www.vortex.com site and domain that hosts the PRIVACY Forum,
> their web software blocked them, informing them that the block was in place
> due to the site being categorized as containing "criminal skills."
>
> As the webmaster for the vortex.com domain, this certainly came as news to
> me.  The message they received didn't give additional information--they
> didn't even know exactly where it came from.  It was apparent though, that
> the entire organization was probably blocked from reaching the PRIVACY
> Forum, since the filtering software in question was affecting a main
> firewall system.
>
> After a number of phone calls and discussions with the system administrator
> for that organization, the details began to emerge.  The company was running
> a filtering software package from Secure Computing Corporation of San Jose,
> California.  This package received weekly updates of blocked sites in a wide
> variety of categories, one of which was "criminal skills."
>
> The administrator had no idea what rationale was used for these decisions,
> they just pulled in the list each week and applied it.  He immediately placed
> vortex.com on a local exception list so that it would no longer be blocked to
> their users.
>
> I then turned my attention to Secure Computing.  After a number of calls, I
> found myself speaking with Ken Montgomery, director of corporate
> communications for that firm.  He confirmed the information I had already
> received.  The filtering product in question ("SmartFilter") was apparently
> not being marketed to individuals, rather, it was sold to institutions,
> corporations, etc. to enforce filtering policies across entire entities.
> The product covers a wide range of information categories that users of the
> software can choose to block.  He said that the majority of blocked sites
> were in categories involving pornography, where there was (in his opinion)
> no question of their not belonging there.
>
> The "criminal skills" category reportedly was broadly defined to cover
> information that might be "of use" to criminals (e.g. how to build bombs).
> He had no explanation as to why my domain had been placed in that list,
> since by no stretch could any materials that are or have ever been
> there fall into such a categorization.  He did discover that the
> classification of my domain had occurred over a year ago (meaning
> other sites could have been receiving similar blocking messages for
> that period of time when trying to access the PRIVACY Forum) and
> that the parties who had made the original classification were no longer
> with their firm--so there was no way to ask them for their rationale.
> (All of their classifications are apparently made by people, not
> by an automated system.)
>
> However, it seems likely that the mere mentioning of encryption may have
> been enough to trigger the classification.  The administrator at the
> organization that had originally contacted me about the blocked access, told
> me that the main reason they included the "criminal skills" category in
> their site blocking list was to try prevent their users from downloading
> "unapproved" encryption software.  This was a type of information that he
> believed to be included under the Secure Computing "criminal skills"
> category (the "logic" being, obviously, that since criminals can use
> encryption to further their efforts, encryption is a criminal skill).  He
> also admitted that he knew that their users could still easily obtain
> whatever encryption software they wanted anyway, but he had to enforce the
> company policy to include that category in their blocking list.
>
> As PRIVACY Forum readers may know, no encryption software is or ever has
> been distributed from here.  The topic of encryption issues does certainly
> come up from time to time, as would be expected.  For the mere *mention* of
> encryption in a discussion forum to trigger such a negative categorization
> would seem to suggest the fallacy of blindly trusting such classification
> efforts.
>
> Mr. Montgomery of Secure Computing initially suggested that it was up to
> their customers to decide which categories they wanted to use in their own
> blocking lists -- he also stated that as a company they were opposed to
> mandatory filtering regulations.  I suggested that such determinations by
> their customers were meaningless if the quality of the entries in those
> categories could not be trusted and if errors of this severity could so
> easily be made.  I felt that this was particularly true of a category with
> an obviously derogatory nature such as "criminal skills"--the ramifications
> of being incorrectly placed into such a category, and then to not even
> *know* about it for an extended period of time, could be extreme and very
> serious.
>
> To their credit, my argument apparently triggered a serious discussion
> within Secure Computing about these issues.  I had numerous subsequent
> e-mail and some additional phone contacts with Mr. Montgomery and others
> in their firm concerning these matters.  First off, they apologized
> for the miscategorization of vortex.com, and removed it from the
> "criminal skills" category (it was apparently never listed in any
> other of their categories).
>
> Secondly, they have agreed with my concerns about the dangers of such
> miscategorizations occurring without any mechanism being present for sites
> to learn of such problems or having a way to deal with them.  So, they will
> shortly be announcing a web-based method for sites to interrogate the Secure
> Computing database to determine which categories (if any) they've been
> listed under, and will provide a means for sites to complain if they feel
> that they have been misclassified.  They've also suggested that their hope
> is to provide a rapid turnaround on consideration of such complaints.
>
> While by no means perfect, this is a step forward.  I would prefer a more
> active notification system, where sites would be notified directly when
> categorizations are made.  This would avoid their having to
> check to see whether or not they've been listed, and needing to keep
> checking back to watch for any changes or new categorizations.  If more
> filtering software companies adopt the Secure Computing approach, there
> would be a lot of checking for sites to do if they wanted to stay on
> top of these matters.  Secure Computing feels that such notifications are
> not practical at this time.  However, their move to provide some
> accountability to their filtering classifications is certainly preferable
> to
> the filtering systems which continue to provide no such facilities and
> operate in a completely closed environment.
>
> So, we make a little progress.  The PRIVACY Forum and vortex.com are no
> longer miscategorized and have been removed from all Secure Computing block
> lists.  Secure Computing was polite and responsive in their
> communications with me, and will establish the system discussed above in
> reaction to my concerns.  Web filtering of course remains a highly
> controversial topic with many serious negative aspects, but we see that when
> it comes to dealing with the complex issues involved, it would be a mistake
> to assume that all such filters all created equal.
>
> --Lauren--
> Lauren Weinstein
> Moderator, PRIVACY Forum
> http://www.vortex.com
>
[...]

-----
"Cryptography is like literacy in the Dark Ages. Infinitely potent, for
good and ill... yet basically an intellectual construct, an idea, which by
its nature will resist efforts to restrict it to bureaucrats and others who
deem only themselves worthy of such Privilege."
_ A Thinking Man's Creed for Crypto  _vbm.

 *     Vin McLellan + The Privacy Guild +     *
      53 Nichols St., Chelsea, MA 02150 USA <617> 884-5548

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Patrick Feisthammel 
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 16:25:18 +0800
To: Alex Alten 
Subject: Re: mysterious PGP release-signing keys
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19981223195440.00b29970@mail>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Hi Alex!

> This is yet another a good example of why one should never confuse using PK 
> certificates with security.  An email PGP signature looks impressive but in
> practice it is useless.

It is usefull iff you can verify the validity of the used PK certificate.
That's what the web of trust in PGP is for.

Cheers,
Patrick

- ---
PGP-KeyID: DD934139 (pafei@rubin.ch)    encrypt mail with PGP if possible
more about PGP on http://www.rubin.ch/pgp/ (english and german)
what ist the web of trust? see http://www.rubin.ch/pgp/weboftrust.en.html
Das Vertrauensnetz von PGP:    http://www.rubin.ch/pgp/weboftrust.de.html

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3i
Charset: noconv

iQESAwUBNoH0kpVgYabdk0E5AQHENgfjBRrYXjTfvo6NMbx/ktK23yeiKibeTfSZ
lbjZCdT+Vp433IAAtz4EHgC1vbSHaA04CdvPrX2cTYqeJAP7RQzGgbZVg7P9p23C
rFYoPtLdCXEiH9GDG48TuqFTUBvJrLMIZXIoSS/ZhMQMASim9zDF/gLQP0/VGicc
QwCjwogFed+R0uvoleZh0YhhEnkIKkLDM4a9pDcLKi9uryspeD6VrWevegmJpzXM
aSQBlpMuTdOXcmaThEqgblP7YeAzK8Q4IdT2oNsCpUx4DntzX/bJ5fOKYjRLdy10
4ctSlXOqYOWZmjVnF4lRFDmI1dwfX0hf7uHTBRG6lh913hAIVg==
=ktwt
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Eric Murray 
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 02:34:01 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: I want to spam the Jury Duty information
Message-ID: <199812241809.KAA15486@slack.lne.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Anonymous writes:
 
> I think about putting up about $200 or so (whetever a decent spamming 
> will cost me) and spam the internet with the information about jurors
> rights and jury nullification.
> 
> Anyone thinks that it is a good idea?

No, it's a bad idea.  The ends do not justify the means.

-- 
Eric Murray          N*Able Technologies                    www.nabletech.com
(email:  ericm  at the sites lne.com or nabletech.com)     PGP keyid:E03F65E5




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 17:44:25 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Ping
Message-ID: <199812240922.KAA04877@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



TEST
TEST
TEST    
TEST
~
TEST    
TEST
~
TEST    
TEST
~
TEST    
TEST
~
TEST    
TEST
~
TEST    
TEST
~
TEST    
TEST
~
TEST    
TEST
~
TEST    
TEST
~
TEST    
TEST
~
TEST    
TEST
~
TEST    
TEST
~
TEST    
TEST
~
TEST    
TEST
~
TEST    
TEST
~
TEST    
TEST
~
TEST    
TEST
~
TEST    
TEST
~
TEST    
TEST
~
TEST    
TEST
~
TEST    
TEST
~
TEST    
TEST
~
TEST    
TEST
~
TEST    
TEST
~
TEST    
TEST
~
TEST    
TEST
~




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 00:43:05 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Suggested reading
Message-ID: <199812241629.KAA00465@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



The Iron Cavalry
Ralph Zumbro
ISBN 0-671-01390-4
$6.99 US

Note especialy the last chapter, "Puma Force".


    ____________________________________________________________________

          What raises the standard of living may well diminish the
          quality of life.

                                                 The Club of Rome

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "jim finder" 
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 02:14:51 +0800
To: coderpunks@toad.com
Subject: What's up with C2 and SSL?
Message-ID: <199812241744.JAA06583@law-f104.hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Would someone mind explaining the background of this
dispute? I've seen posted several vague accusations that
imply that (depending on the poster) either Sameer or Ben
have acted badly and unwisely in some way, and that at least one
of them has a "bad track record" with open source software.

I don't have enough information to judge, which I expect is
also the case for many other readers here. Could someone
please lay out exactly what this bad track record is, and
what was wrong with Sameer and Ben's announcements? Otherwise
we all just have to guess what is going on here. Also, what
happened with SSLeay?

Either that, or stop making public accusations.

Jim


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 14:15:20 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <2d8061e553fb3e96846222e7893c31a9@anonymous>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



INTELLIGENT VIRUS INVADES NT SERVERS

A new computer virus that attacked 10 MCI Worldcom networks last week is
capable of spreading throughout computer networks and scrambling the
documents on those networks as it goes.  "We've never seen anything this
sophisticated in 10 years of doing this," says Network Associates' general
manager of network security.  "This is a completely new strain of virus and
the first we've seen that propagates itself with no user interaction."  The
"Remote Explorer" virus runs on Microsoft Windows NT servers and affects
common programs like Microsoft Word.  Users clicking on their Word icon
might experience a slight delay, but otherwise would be unable to detect
the presence of the virus;  meanwhile, the virus is busy corrupting files and
spreading to other programs.  Microsoft officials say they're "aware of
other viruses that have the same characteristics," and Network Associates
says it has developed a Remote Explorer detector and is working on a
solution to decode the affected files.  

(Wall Street Journal 22 Dec 98)


#!/usr/local/bin/perl -0777-- -export-a-crypto-system-sig -RC4-3-lines-PERL
@k=unpack('C*',pack('H*',shift));for(@t=@s=0..255){$y=($k[$_%@k]+$s[$x=$_
]+$y)%256;&S}$x=$y=0;for(unpack('C*',<>)){$x++;$y=($s[$x%=256]+$y)%256;
&S;print pack(C,$_^=$s[($s[$x]+$s[$y])%256])}sub S{@s[$x,$y]=@s[$y,$x]}





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Reeza! 
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 13:58:29 +0800
To: Missouri FreeNet Administration 
Subject: Re: I must admit. . .
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981223061138.00acf7b0@205.83.192.13>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981224151942.0388eb40@205.83.192.13>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 08:18 PM 12/22/98 -0600, Missouri FreeNet Administration wrote:
>
>:>Hrmm... And we have never "sanctioned" (gotta love those innocuous
>:>euphemisms) any soveriegn State?  What good for the goose is not good for
>:>the gander?  I repeat, *what gives us the RIGHT* to determine his weaponry
>:>or lack thereof?
>:
>:Perhaps if you cited a few examples, your counter-point would have some
>:weight. 
>
>How about Iraq itself???

Do you view our bombing Iraq as sanction? Or as retaliation for their
sanction of Kuwait? Later, is our bombing of Iraq sanction, or follow
through on our warning in light of Husseins continued thwarting of UN
inspectors? 

I don't think Iraq measures up as an example of a sovereign nation the US
sactioned. You would have been better off listing the anti-terrorist
strikes in the Sudan and Afghanistan, but even those were not "sanctions"
in the same sense that Iraq-Kuwait were.

>:>:Your arguments would be better applied to Somalia and Bosnia than they are
>:>:to Iraq. Our presence in those countries was of a slightly different
>:>:character than it is in Iraq now isn't it???
>:>Yes indeed.  In these two countries we were there only to watch over the
>:>slaughter, not to perpetuate it ourselves.  Mustv'e ruined your Military
>:>Day (tm), huh Reeza?
>:
>:(yawn) not really. Actually, any involvement we have with the UN gets on my
>:nerves. Interesting, the way you ignore the differences between "internal
>:conflict" and "aggression against a sovereign neighbor".
>
>I don't see any difference when *we* are the ones injecting ourselves into
>it.  Why don't you point them out to me?

Lead the horse to water, and make him drink? The evidence is there to be
seen, one need only be willing to see. Yes, that knife cuts both ways.
Boils down to ideological differences. 

I believe in defense through a strong offense (threat of retaliation) and
carrying out that retaliation when provoked. I do not see eye to eye with
everything the UN does, that does not mean I'm willing to allow one
expansionist dictator to sanction another country and gain control of
enough of the worlds oil supply to impact the well-being of my country. Nor
does it mean we (the US) should become totally isolationist. With the hue
and cry from the world community, I believe our/the UN retaliation against
Iraqs sanction of Kuwait is, and always will be justifiable.

I view Somalia and the Bosnia fiascos differently, they are internal
conflicts. In Bosnia, there is the added factor of "ethnic cleansing". 

I'm reminded of the truisms about how a drowning man will accept help from
any source, and that a wild animal will bite the hand that feeds it. I'm
personally leary of any involvement with those internal conflicts because
it is interfering with that 'survival of the fittest' thing. 

Reeza!
============================================================================
DH Key available upon request.


The affairs of Men rarely rely on the dictates of logic, or even common sense.


	"Yeah, they mostly rely on something below the belt."

				-- my older sister




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 05:45:25 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Norway - go to jail for naming baby illegal [CNN]
Message-ID: <199812242142.PAA01446@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> X-within-URL: http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/europe/9812/23/BC-Norway-NameLaws.ap/

> Mother of 14 jailed for violating Norway's baby-name law
> 
>    December 23, 1998
>    Web posted at: 9:52 AM EST (1452 GMT)
>    
>    
>    OSLO, Norway (AP) -- A mother of 14 was jailed this week because she
>    refused to change the name she picked for her young son, even though
>    that violated Norway's name law.
>    
>    Kirsti Larsen, 46, told the Verdens Gang newspaper that she named her
>    son Gesher after she dreamed the child should be named "bridge."
>    Gesher means bridge in Hebrew.
>    
>    Norway has strict laws regulating names, including lists of acceptable
>    first and last names. In 1995, Larsen tried to register her son's name
>    as Gesher at her local county office, which rejected the choice as
>    illegal.

[text deleted]


    ____________________________________________________________________

          What raises the standard of living may well diminish the
          quality of life.

                                                 The Club of Rome

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ASCOLI63@aol.com
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 08:08:21 +0800
Subject: Hottest deals on wholesale products! Make big $$
Message-ID: <85e9597a.3682ab6c@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 00:35:55 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: I want to spam the Jury Duty information
Message-ID: <199812241607.RAA29858@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



I think about putting up about $200 or so (whetever a decent spamming 
will cost me) and spam the internet with the information about jurors
rights and jury nullification.

Anyone thinks that it is a good idea?




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Brynyab@aol.com
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 09:14:07 +0800
Subject: HUGE FORBIDDEN INFORMATION LIBRARY
Message-ID: <83059c50.3682bb69@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



The Sanarchist Cookbook

Known as the world most forbidden information source and outlawed in many
nations this book was thought to be banished from the face of the Earth.

HUGE FORBIDDEN INFORMATION LIBRARY
220 pages of the massive book of Anarchy 

Learn the tricks of the trade written by the skilled hands of the Sanarchist.
Including massive amounts of information on building home made weapons like
the potato shooter to making dollar bills that can be used continuously in
coke machines this book can pull you out of any jam.  If you are interested in
those great WWII bomb guides & handbooks this thing has them all!

We are set out to distribute this book to anyone that is interested and it
comes by mail(sorry we can't post it on the web because no web server will
support us).  

We have been selling this product for almost two months now and have processed
hundreds of orders.  This book is great, we have had no complaints on it, and
we will never have any complaints on it its so good.  If this is the only
product you ever order off the Internet then you have picked a good choice.
Our price is low and the product is great!

Send payment of $7.50 to the address below to receive your cookbook by mail.

K.C. Smith
P.O. Box 9141
Evansville, IN 47724

Questions/Comments or to be removed: CrackerDude@mailcity.com!

We will remove your RIGHT AWAY!  We got your email address from
www.Extractor.com!
I am giving you my address and information so clearly this is not a sick
scheme to take your money. 
Expect 3-7 Days to Receive your cookbook. 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 16:21:34 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Is Sameer/C2net Attempting to subvert the OpenSSL and Mod-ssl projects
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
cc:
Subject: OpenSSL and C2Nets attempted subversion of same(Sameers track record
--------
On the Subject of Sameers record with open source

  mod_ssl.c(this was the component that Sameer wishes wasnt
available(and did his best to deny to his customers) and indeed was quite
sucessful in preventing its availability until Ralf Engleschall's mod_ssl becam
available... This is the REAL reason C2net took a nose dive...)
and now it appears Sameer is trying to co-opt that project also.

I trust Ben Laurie and Ralf... They developed the code .

I DONT trust Sameer... he is simply a privateer, he takes sources
and trys to restrict availability so he can make a profit from
Intellectual Property NOT developed by him...
I specifically suspect his announcement coming on the heels of Ben's.
I dont think this person will ever get a clue about either Open Source
or GPL.


     merry Xmas
     the baby ruth bar in the swimming pool :)




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: DOOM Anonymous Untraceable User 
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 01:43:03 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Assault on Civil Liberties
Message-ID: <199812241705.SAA05945@rogue.seclab.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





"Civil liberties and privacy grew more tenuous. The
Clinton administration maintained its record of utter
unfriendliness toward the Bill of Rights as it applies
to technology. The administration's hard-line stand
on encryption, the scrambling of data to keep it away
from prying eyes, shows no signs of moderation. And
the administration pursued the absurd notion, which
flies utterly in the face of reality, that private
businesses can regulate themselves in ways that
protect consumers' privacy."




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: David Honig 
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 11:56:44 +0800
To: Pallas Anonymous Remailer 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981224192449.0083eba0@m7.sprynet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 11:28 PM 12/23/98 -0800, Pallas Anonymous Remailer wrote:
>doubt a skeleton could harbor usable smallpox but I am not up on my
biology >tonight.
> --Skrill

IANA microbio, but recently someone sequenced enough pathogen in
an unearthed bubonic victim's dental plaque to confirm Mr. yersinia's role...

Lets hope the crazies realize the containment problems...










  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Missouri FreeNet Administration 
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 10:29:15 +0800
To: Reeza! 
Subject: Re: I must admit. . .
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981224151942.0388eb40@205.83.192.13>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Thu, 24 Dec 1998, Reeza! finally got to the point of the matter:


:, that does not mean I'm willing to allow one
:expansionist dictator to sanction another country and gain control of
:enough of the worlds oil supply to impact the well-being of my country.

I believe this is the the only true argument here.  The US (and you) are
not "pleased" with the fact that the one place on the planet that has the
worlds largest oil deposits is not beholden to the USG.  If Hussein were
to have remained a US puppet, he could do pretty much as he damn well
pleased, anywhere he damn well pleased - just as long as OUR oil prices
didn't escalate.  

	Weren't the old days wonderful?  A time when the USG could force
countries like Iraq to sell oil at or below cost?  And isn't that the
entire point of "allowing" Iraq to sell oil at the rate of some 50 billion
dollars every six months (IIRC)?  On the one hand, we "embargo" all food
and medicines, for their own good of course, and on the other hand we are
"willing" to forego that embargo, *if it benefits us*.  

	This has ZERO to do with Kuwait or weaponry, and *everything* to
do with the US id - we want *what* we want, *when* we want it, and at the
*price* we want it, *OR ELSE*.

Yours, 
J.A. Terranson
sysadmin@mfn.org

--
If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they
should give serious consideration towards setting a better example:
Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of
unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in
the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and 
elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire
populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate...
This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States
as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers,
associates, or others.  Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of
those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the
first place...
--------------------------------------------------------------------







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 03:49:50 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199812241924.UAA09287@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Well if you are going to go to the trouble and expense, then you
should also put something in there to educate the masses about
how to use crypto to protect themselves, and why this is a good
idea.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 04:12:10 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: I want to spam the Jury Duty information
In-Reply-To: <199812241809.KAA15486@slack.lne.com>
Message-ID: <199812241951.UAA11587@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



  >> I think about ... and spam the internet...
  >> Anyone thinks that it is a good idea?

  > No, it's a bad idea.  The ends do not justify the means.

Worse, the *only* end you'll achieve is to piss off nearly everyone
who *might* have been interested in what you had to say (and getting
your name added to the Black Hole database and tens of thousands of
individual kill files).

Get real -- is there *anyone* on the net who treats unsolicited email
as anything other than unadulterated dreck?




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Secret Squirrel 
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 05:35:42 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: JFK
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



"The basis of effective government is public confidence, and that
confidence is endangered when ethical standards falter or appear to
falter."
- JFK




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Alex Alten 
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 14:57:40 +0800
To: Patrick Feisthammel 
Subject: Re: mysterious PGP release-signing keys
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19981223195440.00b29970@mail>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981224212522.009fd100@mail>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>> This is yet another a good example of why one should never confuse using
PK 
>> certificates with security.  An email PGP signature looks impressive but in
>> practice it is useless.
>
>It is usefull iff you can verify the validity of the used PK certificate.
>That's what the web of trust in PGP is for.
>

Unfortunately the "if" is false.  I have no idea if your fancy PK signature 
really represents you.  Just look at the recent trouble Black Unicorn has 
had with someone else using the same name affiliated with a key stored on 
the Network Associates PGP key server. Dave could not verify a PK signature 
for the PGP software distribution itself.  PKI, or a web of trust, looks 
good on paper but in practice it does not work when scaled up to large 
numbers of networked users.

- Alex
--

Alex Alten

Alten@Home.Com
Alten@TriStrata.Com

P.O. Box 11406
Pleasanton, CA  94588  USA
(925) 417-0159




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 12:02:45 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Forwarded mail...
Message-ID: <199812250405.WAA02538@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 19:50:34 -0600 (CST)
> From: Missouri FreeNet Administration 
> Subject: Re: I must admit. . .

> On Thu, 24 Dec 1998, Reeza! finally got to the point of the matter:
> 
> 
> :, that does not mean I'm willing to allow one
> :expansionist dictator to sanction another country and gain control of
> :enough of the worlds oil supply to impact the well-being of my country.
> 
> I believe this is the the only true argument here.  The US (and you) are
> not "pleased" with the fact that the one place on the planet that has the
> worlds largest oil deposits is not beholden to the USG.

Actualy there are equivalent oil and gas deposits in SE Asia and Antartica.
But they doesn't belong to the USG either.

Of course the point is valid. Though it almost begs the question of why in
such a situation there is not a more powerful search for alternatives. There
are actualy very few technologies that care whether oil or gas is used in
energy production or some entirely different process.




    ____________________________________________________________________

          What raises the standard of living may well diminish the
          quality of life.

                                                 The Club of Rome

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Soren 
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 10:32:46 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: EAY, SSLeay, and Open Source (Re: [ssl-users] Re: C2Net announces OpenSSL Project)
In-Reply-To: <199812242235.WAA09814@server.eternity.org>
Message-ID: <368302FD.81FE80B3@workmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





Adam Back wrote:

> This is confusing, several people have alluded that there will be no
> future versions of SSLeay from Eric and friends.  Would someone in the
> know care to divulge the goods: why is this?
>
> Has Eric suffered an accident?  Been incarcerated by the Australian
> spooks in retaliation for major contributions to crypto deployment?
> Has he been bought out by the dark side (say microsoft?).  Had a major
> change of philosophy regarding open source?  EAY was amongst the
> "least likely to go closed source" I thought.
>
> What gives?

I seem to to recall sometime ago when he was being pressured by the Oz
Gubmint, and decided that going corporate was a decent way out.  From what
I recall, he ended up on the RSA payroll.

Sayonara buggy freeware.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Reeza! 
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 20:39:32 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: bug recipes
In-Reply-To: <19981224081650.17846.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981224221959.007bda00@205.83.192.13>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 12:16 AM 12/24/98 PST, uhm, yeah.. wrote:
>>
>>..someone describes the use of mutton for anthrax breeding..
>>
>What?
>
>>The mils are already vaccinated, so anthrax is passe.  What
>>you *really* want to do is dig up a smallpox victim...
>>
>You must have a lot of time on your hands, eh?
>
>- neotek
>

I've said this offlist twice already.

Botulism doesn't have the military appeal of anthrax, but is more easily
cultivated, disseminated, and will not result in the knee-jerk reaction
once it is diagnosed. 

The original poster did not rise to the challenge of the 24 hour time
limit, as I anticipated. My goal was to for him to justify his position, or
make him shut up.  

He sounded like Chicken Little. 

There was some noise, but no recipe from that original poster. Time out, I
rest my case. 

The link Petro posted was hilarious BTW, 

Reeza!


============================================================================
DH Key available upon request.


The affairs of Men rarely rely on the dictates of logic, or even common sense.


	"Yeah, they mostly rely on something below the belt."

				-- my older sister




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "jim finder" 
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 13:33:45 +0800
To: apache-ssl@lists.aldigital.co.uk
Subject: Re: Sammers    eers Theft  of Ben lauries Intellectual
Message-ID: <19981225051204.19697.qmail@hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Anonymous writes:

>For the clueless or history deficient
>
>C2 gots its start by purloining without compensation
>Ben Lauries Apache-SSL patches.... Sameer used these and then
>had the fucking gall to remove source from apache-ssl
>for the mod_ssl.c... all was rosy until Ralf releases
>a mod_ssl.c of his design... result??
>C2's business worlwide took a nose dive...(layoffs etc)
>so now Sameer is trying to coopt Ralf's mod_ssl.c project
>(mark my words if Sameer gets his way the source for future
>verions will NOT be available no matter what he says now...)
>I seen it happen once so now when the litte sob trys it
>again I am blowing the whistle...(and retelling history openly)
>how about it Sameer are you now going to Sue the Mix network:) ?
>
>    the turds in Sameers Swimming pool
>p.s. to the clueless Jim Finder..Happy now asshole...?

No, I'm afraid I'm not.

Could you offer either verifiable evidence of the above, or at
least back up your accusation by signing your name? Either would
be better than making an anonymous accusation that we have no
way to verify. I'm sorry I wasn't privy to what ever went on
behind the scene between C2NET, Ben, Ralf, Eric, etc., but
I think I speak for most readers when I admit that I wasn't.
Ben made a serious accusation that an important member of
the open sources and crypto community has a hidden agenda
to subvert the availability of open source crypto code. If it
is false, let this stop. If it's true, then let's shout it
far and wide, and deny them the support of the community.
Anonymous and unverifiable accusations advance neither
case

All I've seen so far is Ben and Sameer throwing shit at
each other, egged on by anonymous flamers, without anymone
bothering to provider enough information for an outsider to
decide how much of it should stick. Right now, all I can
conclude is that there is plenty of shit to go around.

Ben, would you please spell out your side of the story, and
Sameer, would you do likewise so that we can figure this out?
Anonymous, put up or shut up.

Jim



______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "James A. Donald" 
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 17:46:21 +0800
To: "jim finder" 
Message-ID: <199812250927.BAA06007@proxy4.ba.best.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



    --
At 11:12 PM 12/24/98 -0600, jim finder wrote:
> All I've seen so far is Ben and Sameer throwing shit at 
> each other, egged on by anonymous flamers, without anymone 
> bothering to provider enough information for an outsider to 
> decide how much of it should stick.

Probably none of it should stick:  This a dispute over forking the source.

The community should support the fork that comes out with the most good
code and sound design, rather than the fork that throws the most mud.

And it probably will.

    --digsig
         James A. Donald
     6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
     8dYM2+HBC2DOTPZd47psy4oa6jQrtoVVJul6/wR6
     4ld5hqkTmnsShU9zXzjoabREGevAsHFbEwShXZxGJ
-----------------------------------------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because 
of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this 
right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.


http://www.jim.com/jamesd/      James A. Donald




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ocnarb@usa.net
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 15:33:03 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: A #1 SECRET PROFIT MACHINE!!!
Message-ID: <199812250703.PAA06394@home.>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



            We'll Pay You To Make Our Phone Ring...

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If you wish to be removed simply place remove in the subject area and you will be removed
from the list.  Thank you!   Have a great Holiday!




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 11:30:17 +0800
To: coderpunks@toad.com
Subject: Sammerseers Theft  of Ben lauries Intellectual Property(i.e.apache
Message-ID: <199812250309.EAA07755@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
cc:
Subject: Sameers ande C2 Nets Appropriation of Apache-SSL(Bens Code)
--------

For the clueless or history deficient

C2 gots its start by purloining without compensation
Ben Lauries Apache-SSL patches.... Sameer used these and then
had the fucking gall to remove source from apache-ssl
for the mod_ssl.c... all was rosy until Ralf releases
a mod_ssl.c of his design... result??
C2's business worlwide took a nose dive...(layoffs etc)
so now Sameer is trying to coopt Ralf's mod_ssl.c project
(mark my words if Sameer gets his way the source for future
verions will NOT be available no matter what he says now...)
I seen it happen once so now when the litte sob trys it
again I am blowing the whistle...(and retelling history openly)
how about it Sameer are you now going to Sue the Mix network:) ?

    the turds in Sameers Swimming pool
p.s. to the clueless Jim Finder..Happy now asshole...?
BTW I will post when and where I feel like !




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 12:03:02 +0800
To: Eric Murray 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 10:09 AM 12/24/98 -0800, Eric Murray wrote:
>Anonymous writes:
> 
>> I think about putting up about $200 or so (whetever a decent spamming 
>> will cost me) and spam the internet with the information about jurors
>> rights and jury nullification.
>> 
>> Anyone thinks that it is a good idea?
>
>No, it's a bad idea.  The ends do not justify the means.
>

The ends: justice.  

The means: a common abuse, which perchance should be illegal like junkfax,
but isn't.  The means: in the late 90s the people had the chance, for a few
years, before the XC Massacre, to publish without convincing corporations.

Do the math.









  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 12:03:09 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: land of the free
Message-ID: <199812250340.EAA09452@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 08:24 PM 12/24/98 +0100, Anonymous wrote:
>Well if you are going to go to the trouble and expense, then you
>should also put something in there to educate the masses about
>how to use crypto to protect themselves, and why this is a good
>idea.

Trouble and expense of what?  If you refer to the FIJA spamming,
then you will simply confuse the sheeple with too many issues.








  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 12:10:55 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: spamactivism
Message-ID: <199812250347.EAA10171@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




At 05:07 PM 12/24/98 +0100, Anonymous wrote:
>I think about putting up about $200 or so (whetever a decent spamming 
>will cost me) and spam the internet with the information about jurors
>rights and jury nullification.
>
>Anyone thinks that it is a good idea?

Education can only be for the good.

Got an anonymous ecash account of some sort?  In either case, kudos.








  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Frederick Burroughs 
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 21:14:40 +0800
To: Cypherpunks 
Subject: Re: Forwarded mail...
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981225192104.00b00100@205.83.192.13>
Message-ID: <36838BA9.1BE2E8DF@shentel.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





Reeza! wrote:

> I agree we should be pursuing alternative energies with greater diligence,
> I'd like to see what the petroleum companies have on their shelves and are
> suppressing.

I bet there's a lot of shelf space (and mercenary funding) devoted to making
profits from Caspian Sea oil. Voluminous oil reserves, land-locked, begging for a
drainage shunt into the Black Sea, Mediterranean or Persian Gulf. The Persian Gulf
heads the list except that pipelines would traverse enemy territory.

Well, well, well... Iraq has interesting possibilities. Demonize the present head
of state and his regime, use US military to soften up the resistance, incite
opposition movements, oil companies merge to fund the insurgency...  drooling over
the thought of getting in on the ground floor. Then kick back as oil flow meters
spin like slot machines that pay out every spin. We'd be stupid not to play.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Missouri FreeNet Administration 
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 23:52:45 +0800
To: Anonymous 
Subject: Re: spamactivism
In-Reply-To: <199812250347.EAA10171@replay.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Go for it.  You *may* even be able to help raise this money by
solicitation of LEO's.  No, I am *not* kidding here, I know several who
are *very* active in this area...

Yours, 
J.A. Terranson
sysadmin@mfn.org

--
If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they
should give serious consideration towards setting a better example:
Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of
unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in
the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and 
elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire
populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate...
This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States
as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers,
associates, or others.  Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of
those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the
first place...
--------------------------------------------------------------------


On Fri, 25 Dec 1998, Anonymous wrote:

:Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 04:47:41 +0100
:From: Anonymous 
:To: cypherpunks@toad.com
:Subject: spamactivism
:
:
:At 05:07 PM 12/24/98 +0100, Anonymous wrote:
:>I think about putting up about $200 or so (whetever a decent spamming 
:>will cost me) and spam the internet with the information about jurors
:>rights and jury nullification.
:>
:>Anyone thinks that it is a good idea?
:
:Education can only be for the good.
:
:Got an anonymous ecash account of some sort?  In either case, kudos.
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:  
:
:
:
:
:




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Jagielski 
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 01:35:54 +0800
To: apache-ssl@lists.aldigital.co.uk
Subject: Re: [apache-ssl] Re: Sammers    eers Theft  of Ben lauries Intellectual
In-Reply-To: <19981225051204.19697.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <199812251712.MAA11829@devsys.jaguNET.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



jim finder wrote:
> 
> 
> All I've seen so far is Ben and Sameer throwing shit at
> each other, egged on by anonymous flamers, without anymone
> bothering to provider enough information for an outsider to
> decide how much of it should stick. Right now, all I can
> conclude is that there is plenty of shit to go around.
> 

As in any "campaign", it appears that mud and shit are the first things
to get flung.

I'm familiar with some background and some of the issues. Unfortunately,
what we are faced with is the idea that one group wants to "own" the
concept of an Open SSL project. This is certainly not the way to start
a successful, open source, group-based project.

People are pretty astute. If they feel that one project is a sham over
the other, that it simply exists to stroke some egos or make sure
that certain people's names are mentioned when SSL is discussed, then
people aren't going to contribute. 
-- 
===========================================================================
   Jim Jagielski   |||   jim@jaguNET.com   |||   http://www.jaguNET.com/
            "That's no ordinary rabbit... that's the most foul,
            cruel and bad-tempered rodent you ever laid eyes on"




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 21:34:39 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: I want to spam the Jury Duty information
Message-ID: <19981225131927.24903.qmail@hades.rpini.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Well if you are going to go to the trouble and expense, then you
should also put something in there to educate the masses about
how to use crypto to protect themselves, and why this is a good
idea.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Jack Rusher" 
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 03:27:46 +0800
To: 
Subject: OpenSSL
Message-ID: <001d01be3039$2d9410a0$31a7fea9@oemcomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>I'm familiar with some background and some of the issues. Unfortunately,
>what we are faced with is the idea that one group wants to "own" the
>concept of an Open SSL project. This is certainly not the way to start
>a successful, open source, group-based project.


Hey, everybody, here is a novel idea:

Why don't we look at this as a great opportunity to make some really good
free software that will make all of our lives easier.  It is time for the
free SSL implementation to move into a larger (and more continously updated)
group project.  OpenSSL is a great idea, a great name for the idea, and it
is the right time to do it.  So, how about we stop looking at this as a
pissing contest between some strong personalities?  There are alot of
talented developers on this list, and I think that we would all be better
off working together than turning into a bunch of bitter, petty, ego driven
camps that are primarily concerned with proving how large their genitals
are.

What I am trying to say is, if (for instance) Ben and Ralph would like to
sit down for a pint and make nice with one another, I am buying.  Name the
pub, in the neutral country of your choice, and we are there.  ;-)

j.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Lucky Green" 
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 21:35:37 +0800
To: 
Subject: RE: Sameers Theft  of Ben lauries Intellectual Property(i.e.apache
In-Reply-To: <199812250309.EAA07755@replay.com>
Message-ID: <000001be3009$9a806fe0$f3176dc2@lucky.zks.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



[Coderpunks distribution removed]
Anonymous wrote:
> For the clueless or history deficient
>
> C2 gots its start by purloining without compensation
> Ben Lauries Apache-SSL patches.... Sameer used these and then
> had the fucking gall to remove source from apache-ssl
> for the mod_ssl.c... all was rosy until Ralf releases
> a mod_ssl.c of his design... result??

I've heard a number of descriptions of the history of Apache-SSL-US (later
Stronghold) over the years, but Anon's version of history is not supported
by the facts.

First of all, Stronghold does not use a line of Ben's Apache-SSL code.
Hasn't for years. C2Net switched to the Sioux code base when they acquired
Sioux from Thawte. Which was a long time ago.

> C2's business worldwide took a nose dive...(layoffs etc)
> so now Sameer is trying to coopt Ralf's mod_ssl.c project
> (mark my words if Sameer gets his way the source for future
> verions will NOT be available no matter what he says now...)
> I seen it happen once so now when the litte sob trys it
> again I am blowing the whistle...(and retelling history openly)
> how about it Sameer are you now going to Sue the Mix network:) ?

[Out of courtesy, I won't comment on C2Net's present difficulties other than
that they have little to do with mod_ssl].

Fast forward a few years. Ralph releases mod_ssl, by all accounts a very
well done SSL integration with Apache. mod_ssl implements some much overdue
cleanups that for whatever reasons never made it into Ben's Apache-SSL. I
don't know if C2Net is moving to use mod_ssl, but given the quality of the
module, I would not be surprised. Either way, mod_ssl is under BSD-style
license and C2Net is free to use mod_ssl in their commercial products.

Meanwhile, troubles developed in SSLeay land. The entire recent discussion
about OpenSSL on the various lists must be rather confusing if one doesn't
know the current status of SSLeay. [Hint: it would be really nice if this
finally was announced by those who should be doing the announcement. Which
isn't me].

Suffice to say that it is unlikely in the extreme that SSLeay or the SSLapps
will continue to be maintained by their original development team, Eric
Young and Tim Hudson. Rather than complain about this turn of events, let's
all thank Eric and Tim for the awesome work they performed for cryptographic
freedom and the Internet community. Big thanks guys! Those that feel
inclined to complain about the situation are strongly encouraged to write an
open source software implementation of the importance, complexity, and size
of SSLeay prior to voicing their complaints.

With future SSLeay development in limbo, somebody needs to ensure continued
development. Unfortunately, the launch of such a framework was overshadowed
by Sameer and Ben slugging out their personal differences on mailing lists.
It was silly and downright rude for anyone to announce the formation of such
a group before first giving the usual suspects a courtesy heads-up. But this
too will hopefully be water under the bridge before long (just please
remember it for the next time). Meanwhile, the best of wishes for the
OpenSSL project.

[Disclaimer: I am an ex-C2Net employee]

Happy holidays,
--Lucky




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Music Boulevard 
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 10:18:16 +0800
To: Cypher Punks 
Subject: Announcing our Store Wide Sale!
Message-ID: <199812260151.RAA13895@pm1.postdirect.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Dear Cypher,

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future updates or announcements from Music Boulevard,
you may reply to this email and type "unsubscribe" as
the subject line of your reply.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Reeza! 
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 17:00:58 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: I want to spam the Jury Duty information
In-Reply-To: <199812241607.RAA29858@replay.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981225183903.00af62a0@205.83.192.13>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



If you wanted to be sure the remailers were full of something else while
you sent something anon and sensitive, it might make good camoflage for the
other. Besides the public service announcement.

Someone addressed reliability of remailers with the ability of watchers to
retrace a particular post and tied it to the volume of SPAM currently
traveling through the same box. In a nutshell, the more SPAM being
transmitted, the more difficult it is/would be to retrace any one
particular email. 
Is there a decent retelling of this anywhere, or has anyone found or
authored additional information on it???


At 05:07 PM 12/24/98 +0100, Anonymous wrote:
>I think about putting up about $200 or so (whetever a decent spamming 
>will cost me) and spam the internet with the information about jurors
>rights and jury nullification.
>
>Anyone thinks that it is a good idea?
>
>
>




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Reeza! 
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 17:36:17 +0800
To: Missouri FreeNet Administration 
Subject: Re: I must admit. . .
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981224151942.0388eb40@205.83.192.13>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981225190607.00af43c0@205.83.192.13>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 07:50 PM 12/24/98 -0600, Missouri FreeNet Administration wrote:
>On Thu, 24 Dec 1998, Reeza! finally got to the point of the matter:
>
>
>:, that does not mean I'm willing to allow one
>:expansionist dictator to sanction another country and gain control of
>:enough of the worlds oil supply to impact the well-being of my country.
>
>I believe this is the the only true argument here.  The US (and you) are
>not "pleased" with the fact that the one place on the planet that has the
>worlds largest oil deposits is not beholden to the USG.  If Hussein were
>to have remained a US puppet, he could do pretty much as he damn well
>pleased, anywhere he damn well pleased - just as long as OUR oil prices
>didn't escalate.  

Lots of dictators around the world do pretty much as they please anyway.
Remember it was a world community effort to force Hussein back and restore
Kuwait, NOT something the US undertook solely upon its own.

>	Weren't the old days wonderful?  A time when the USG could force
>countries like Iraq to sell oil at or below cost?  And isn't that the
>entire point of "allowing" Iraq to sell oil at the rate of some 50 billion
>dollars every six months (IIRC)?  On the one hand, we "embargo" all food
>and medicines, for their own good of course, and on the other hand we are
>"willing" to forego that embargo, *if it benefits us*.  

The USG could force countries like Iraq to sell at or below cost? You are
forgetting OPEC, the international bankers cartel and other organizations
where the reins of power are really located. 

>	This has ZERO to do with Kuwait or weaponry, and *everything* to
>do with the US id - we want *what* we want, *when* we want it, and at the
>*price* we want it, *OR ELSE*.

But of course. by manufacturing a boogey man to blame all the evil on, no
one would ever suspect there was a 3rd party involved, now would they?

This is growing old, lets take it offlist if you want to pursue it. 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: rcballen@mindspring.com
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 07:33:52 +0800
To: 
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <000701be3064$2ae70a80$3a3556d1@default>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




GAY
 


From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Reeza! 
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 17:41:37 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981225192104.00b00100@205.83.192.13>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 10:05 PM 12/24/98 -0600, Jim Choate wrote:
>Forwarded message:
>
>> Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 19:50:34 -0600 (CST)
>> From: Missouri FreeNet Administration 
>> Subject: Re: I must admit. . .
>
>> On Thu, 24 Dec 1998, Reeza! finally got to the point of the matter:
>> 
>> 
>> :, that does not mean I'm willing to allow one
>> :expansionist dictator to sanction another country and gain control of
>> :enough of the worlds oil supply to impact the well-being of my country.
>> 
>> I believe this is the the only true argument here.  The US (and you) are
>> not "pleased" with the fact that the one place on the planet that has the
>> worlds largest oil deposits is not beholden to the USG.
>
>Actualy there are equivalent oil and gas deposits in SE Asia and Antartica.
>But they doesn't belong to the USG either.
>
>Of course the point is valid. Though it almost begs the question of why in
>such a situation there is not a more powerful search for alternatives. There
>are actualy very few technologies that care whether oil or gas is used in
>energy production or some entirely different process.
>

Which point? Yours, or J.A.'s???
I thought the point wasn't about control of that segment of the oil supply,
I was voicing my personal opinion there. Rather, the point was about the
sanction of a sovereign neighbor nation, and our (The US's) actions in
forcing Hussein back as part of a world community effort. Whether our
"sticking our noses into it" as J.A. said earlier, was justifiable. 

I agree we should be pursuing alternative energies with greater diligence,
I'd like to see what the petroleum companies have on their shelves and are
suppressing.

Reeza!
 
============================================================================
DH Key available upon request.


The affairs of Men rarely rely on the dictates of logic, or even common sense.


	"Yeah, they mostly rely on something below the belt."

				-- my older sister




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: b3177@postmark.net
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 12:35:24 +0800
To: 
Subject: Are You Doing This ?
Message-ID: <199812260402.WAA01297@galaxy.galstar.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jeffrey Altman 
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 10:03:32 +0800
To: "Jack Rusher" 
Subject: Re: [ssl-users] OpenSSL
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



OpenTLS would be a much better name given the standards process in the
IETF.


    Jeffrey Altman * Sr.Software Designer * Kermit-95 for Win32 and OS/2
                 The Kermit Project * Columbia University
              612 West 115th St #716 * New York, NY * 10025
  http://www.kermit-project.org/k95.html * kermit-support@kermit-project.org





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Guerra 
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 12:45:27 +0800
To: Robert Hettinga 
Subject: Re: Mixmaster client 4 the Mac OS?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

At 8:53 PM -0500 1998/12/3, Robert Hettinga wrote:


> Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 01:42:19 +0100
> From: Anonymous 
> Subject: Mixmaster client 4 the Mac OS?
> To: cypherpunks@toad.com
> Sender: owner-cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
>
> I heard sometime last summer that the mixmaster client was being ported to
> the Mac. Does anyone know the status of this project?
>

Perhaps it would be an interesting project which either used the 
PGPsdk libraries, or GNUPG code...

Robert Guerra 
WWW Page 
PGPKeys  

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP Personal Privacy 6.0.2
Comment: Digital Signatures ensure authenticity and author

iQA/AwUBNoRj2sKdCsHMpdeSEQLnUwCfbm1vskjLT5Peanetx3Kq7Wrw5I8An2D1
wo6ePDYFqU4gPyp2fWK+v9k3
=brF8
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Guerra 
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 12:38:06 +0800
To: Robert Hettinga 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hi:

Please feel free to submit via my www page any "crypto campaign" 
links to my pgp & crypto links page.

It's located at :

	http://www.interlog.com/~rguerra/www

I hope that with enough links it will serve as a directory where 
groups with related interests can find each other.

regards

robert


Robert Guerra 
WWW Page 
PGPKeys  

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP Personal Privacy 6.0.2
Comment: Digital Signatures ensure authenticity and author

iQA/AwUBNoRj+MKdCsHMpdeSEQJ+4gCgsEhoZNZKJauiYlstWeCkCwTVdTkAoPNR
HQbC3TDfSzY1DLUfZOT0QDhs
=JQAJ
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: HyperReal-Anon 
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 07:52:06 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: I want to spam the Jury Duty information
Message-ID: <237d9e70288755e31703fff1b66beb98@anonymous>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>Well if you are going to go to the trouble and expense, then you
>should also put something in there to educate the masses about
>how to use crypto to protect themselves, and why this is a good
>idea.

And while we're being hypocritical and stealing (oh, it's okay because it's
for "education"), maybe we ought to educate about why spam is bad, and how
crypto may help end spam.

Right. About the only thing you people are going to accomplish is to
alienate anybody who might care what you have to say. While you're spamming,
maybe you can even make the Cypherpunks look really bad. Hell, go ahead and
put the list address as the "From" address. It will shut down the list, make
us look like idiots, and accomplish very little, but it's for a good cause.

After all, the ends always justify the means. When the USG wants to storm
your home with a squad of ninjas, that's okay, so long as they're checking
for drugs or other evil things. Since it will keep us all safe, let's
eliminate privacy rights.

The idea of spamming for "educational purposes" is the most obscene and
stupid I've heard on this list in a while. Both of you read "The Prince" one
too many times.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 15:00:09 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: [PNS-List] CFP: Epidemiology of Ideas
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Mailing-List: contact pns-list-owner@egroups.com
Reply-To: pns-list@egroups.com
Delivered-To: listsaver-egroups-PNS-List@eGroups.com
From: "Philosophy News Service List Mgr. [richard jones]"
	 
To: "'PNS-List@eGroups.com'" 
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 22:50:49 -0500
Subject: [PNS-List] CFP: Epidemiology of Ideas

To: pns-list@egroups.com
From: Mariam Thalos 
Subject: CALL FOR PAPERS: THE EPIDEMIOLOGY OF IDEAS (fwd)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 15:49:49 -0500 (EST)


From: Barry Smith 
To: thalos@acsu.buffalo.edu, rapaport@cs.buffalo.edu
Subject: CALL FOR PAPERS: THE EPIDEMIOLOGY OF IDEAS


THE MONIST
An International Quarterly Journal of General Philosophical Inquiry
Edited by Barry Smith
http://wings.buffalo.edu/philosophy/Publications/Monet/

CALL FOR PAPERS

THE EPIDEMIOLOGY OF IDEAS


Deadline for submissions: July 2000
Advisory Editor: Dan Sperber (CREA, Paris)
mailto:sperber@poly.polytechnique.fr

Both in the psychological and in the social sciences, the notion of
representation plays a major role. But how are the psychological notion of
a mental representation and the sociological notion of a collective or
cultural representation related? While there has been a naturalistic turn
in cognitive science, proposals for the naturalization of mental
representations have had little or no impact on the social sciences. This
may be due in part to the fact that these naturalistic proposals typically
focus on the individual cognizer. Yet, a large proportion of the mental
representations of a human individual are, in fact, mere individual
versions of representations widely distributed in human groups.
	By embracing the hypothesis that populations of representations (somewhat
like populations of bacteria or viruses) are hosted by human populations,
it becomes possible to apply to the distribution and evolution of mental
representations models derived from epidemiology, population genetics, and
evolutionary theory. Cultural representations are then seen as strains of
mental representations of very similar content widely distributed across a
population. To approach cultural representations in this way is to look for
the causal explanation of macro-scale cultural phenomena in the
micro-processes of cognition and transmission. It is to engage in a kind of
epidemiology of ideas. Philosophers, biologists, and anthropologists have
developed a variety of such epidemiological or evolutionary models, with
particular application to cultural diffusion and to the history and
philosophy of science. Both philosophers and social scientists with a
serious interest in philosophy are invited to contribute papers on these
and related topics.

______________________________________
Department of Philosophy             611 Baldy Hall
University at Buffalo                          716 633 2041
Buffalo NY 14260 - 1010          fax: 716 645 6139
http://wings.buffalo.edu/philosophy/faculty/smith




------------------------------------------------------------------------
eGroup home: http://www.eGroups.com/list/pns-list
Free Web-based e-mail groups by eGroups.com

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 10:39:52 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: jury spam justifiable?
Message-ID: <199812260214.DAA17226@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 12:35 AM 12/26/98 -0000, HyperReal-Anon wrote:
>And while we're being hypocritical and stealing (oh, it's okay because it's
>for "education"), maybe we ought to educate about why spam is bad, and how
>crypto may help end spam.

Its not stealing because only the Govt can identify crimes.  And they
haven't.

Legal Junk mail doesn't steal time?  Legal Solicitors' phone calls don't
steal?  Taxes don't steal?  Courtroom injustice isn't a theft of rights?

>Right. About the only thing you people are going to accomplish is to
>alienate anybody who might care what you have to say. 

The message must be phrased correctly.

>While you're spamming,
>maybe you can even make the Cypherpunks look really bad. 

Who mentioned any mailing list?  This would be a private matter.

>After all, the ends always justify the means. When the USG wants to storm
>your home with a squad of ninjas, that's okay, so long as they're checking
>for drugs or other evil things. Since it will keep us all safe, let's
>eliminate privacy rights.

Alls fair in love and war.

>The idea of spamming for "educational purposes" is the most obscene and

The sheeple who haven't figured out how to filter spam are the ones
most in need of education.  Do it for the children.  For the future
generations.

The only thing evil needs to succeed is for good to do nothing.

Or just carry on with the same old same old, if that's what makes you feel
better.  Best not to make waves, after all.  Might scare the horses.












  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Pallas Anonymous Remailer 
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 21:12:06 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Y2K OFFICIALS CONVENE, CONFESS
Message-ID: <70b0380731c769729b7e3d31789b323d@anonymous>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Attendees of a meeting convened by the United Nations confirmed that while
central banking and telecommunications systems in many countries are making
progress toward Y2K compliance, many other necessary systems still need
help.  Those include electrical power systems, global shipping systems, the
linkages between telecommunications systems, and SWIFT, a system for
exchanging financial information.  The U.N. meeting was the first time top
Y2K officials were brought together.  "One of the goals of this meeting is
to identify the senior executives who are dealing with the problem," says
the chairman of the U.S. President's Council on Year 2000 Conversion.  "We
want the delegates to go home with a knowledge of faces and with agreements
on going forward.  We don't have time to go through normal diplomatic
channels."  More than 100 officials attended the meeting.  (TechWeb 14 Dec
98)

#!/usr/local/bin/perl -0777-- -export-a-crypto-system-sig -RC4-3-lines-PERL
@k=unpack('C*',pack('H*',shift));for(@t=@s=0..255){$y=($k[$_%@k]+$s[$x=$_
]+$y)%256;&S}$x=$y=0;for(unpack('C*',<>)){$x++;$y=($s[$x%=256]+$y)%256;
&S;print pack(C,$_^=$s[($s[$x]+$s[$y])%256])}sub S{@s[$x,$y]=@s[$y,$x]}





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 04:14:30 +0800
To: coderpunks@toad.com
Subject: OpenSSL (whoever picks up the banner) Yeah!!
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



To: cypherpunks@toad.com
cc:
Subject: Open Source separate from the Crypto export battle
--------

   Happy What ever to you all !
     
 gee Anonymous... you seem to be quite angry... or
a feeble provacateurs attempt to cause division in the ranks(Infowar 
Level 1 perhaps??)
(as if there wasnt enough already...)


    I think its vitally important to recognize Sameers and C2Nets
contribution to fighting against both the US bullshit export  laws
and to good quality cryptographic software... Stronghold while NOT
open source has been a vital and much appreciated part of the battle 
against the eavesdroppers at the NSA/Interpol/GCHQ etc.

I am however somewhat guarded about how Open Source OpenSSL will remain.
For example will competitors to C2net be able to use it without
licensing or fees to C2net in some form..?

  I would also like to thank Ben Laurie for making the patches available.
A lot of sites run these worldwide.


I sincerely wish the anonymous flamers would cease and desist
you are contributing as much garbage as the average spammer to these lists

If people dont make a profit from crypto activities... then there
wont be any crypto...
   

    Again Sameer thanx for all you have done.. 
    Seasons greetings
    Anon.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Lucky Green" 
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 13:06:53 +0800
To: 
Subject: RE: [ssl-users] OpenSSL
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <000201be308c$1c01fe80$f3176dc2@lucky.zks.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Make that another vote for OpenTLS.

--Lucky Green 
  PGP 5.x  encrypted email preferred

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-coderpunks@toad.com [mailto:owner-coderpunks@toad.com]On
> Behalf Of Jeffrey Altman
> Sent: Saturday, December 26, 1998 02:44
> To: Jack Rusher
> Cc: sw-mod-ssl@engelschall.com; apache-ssl@lists.aldigital.co.uk;
> cypherpunks@cyberpass.net; coderpunks@toad.com; cryptography@c2.net
> Subject: Re: [ssl-users] OpenSSL
> 
> 
> OpenTLS would be a much better name given the standards process in the
> IETF.
> 
> 
>     Jeffrey Altman * Sr.Software Designer * Kermit-95 for 
> Win32 and OS/2
>                  The Kermit Project * Columbia University
>               612 West 115th St #716 * New York, NY * 10025
>   http://www.kermit-project.org/k95.html * 
> kermit-support@kermit-project.org
> 
> 
> 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 15:00:25 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: Re: jury spam justifiable?
Message-ID: <199812260635.HAA02005@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>At 12:35 AM 12/26/98 -0000, HyperReal-Anon wrote:
>>And while we're being hypocritical and stealing (oh, it's okay because it's
>>for "education"), maybe we ought to educate about why spam is bad, and how
>>crypto may help end spam.
>
>Its not stealing because only the Govt can identify crimes.  And they
>haven't.

No, it's stealing. The government doesn't call the Waco incident
murder, but that doesn't make it okay. 

>Legal Junk mail doesn't steal time?  Legal Solicitors' phone calls don't
>steal?  Taxes don't steal?  Courtroom injustice isn't a theft of rights?

1) Yes, but at least the person sending it paid for it. It doesn't
consume any resources from the recipient, other than mailbox space
which the government claims it owns anyway. The postal service has to 
store and deliver it, but they got paid for it. When you get it,
you're perfectly free to cram it back in the outgoing mail slot like I
do.

2) They steal time and they're very annoying, but they don't steal
money per se. If they're long distance the caller pays for it. Most
people are annoyed by these. The anti-phone-soliciting action is to
never buy from those companies.

3) Taxes are theft at the point of a gun. You won't find much argument
about that here. There will be argument when it comes to the complete
elimination of taxes because that generally means the almost complete
elimination of services.

4) Of course it is.

Just because all four of those things are legal in one way or another
doesn't mean that we should support it. I can walk outside and insult
random people to their face, but that dosen't mean I should.

Just because you *can* do something and you have some reason to do
something doesn't mean that you *should* do it, particularly if there
are better ways.

>
>>Right. About the only thing you people are going to accomplish is to
>>alienate anybody who might care what you have to say.
>
>The message must be phrased correctly.

The phrasing has nothing to do with it. The method of delivery does.

>
>>While you're spamming,
>>maybe you can even make the Cypherpunks look really bad.
>
>Who mentioned any mailing list?  This would be a private matter.

Apparently this is beyond your comprehension, so I'll explain it in
explicit terms.

You will likely direct people to FIJA. First off, when you send the
spam FIJA and their upstream sites are going to get all sorts of
complaints, and rightly so. The site it originates from will also get
flooded. Assuming FIJA is still online a few hours later, they will
probably wind up on spam block lists.

If you spam through anonymous remailers, they'll wind up on spam
blocking lists all over the place. If you falsify an origin address, 
it will also get flooded with complaints. Even mentioning FIJA is 
going to get them flooded with complaints.

You also make the mistake of assuming that most people read spam. They
don't. It just annoys them.

If you spam through anonymous remailers, you further the theories of
some people that they are simply abuse havens. This is not a positive
thing for the remailers. The Cypherpunks are associated with the
remailers, so it isn't a positive thing for us either, even though
we'll only be implicated several steps down. 

>>After all, the ends always justify the means. When the USG wants to storm
>>your home with a squad of ninjas, that's okay, so long as they're checking
>>for drugs or other evil things. Since it will keep us all safe, let's
>>eliminate privacy rights.
>
>Alls fair in love and war.

If such tactics are fair, then why are we worrying about distributing
FIJA literature? The government has our best interests at heart, after
all. Whatever.

>>The idea of spamming for "educational purposes" is the most obscene and
>
>The sheeple who haven't figured out how to filter spam are the ones
>most in need of education.  Do it for the children.  For the future
>generations.

The best thing to do "for the children" is to kick the clueless masses
off the Internet and turn it back into the academic area it used to
be. Good has come out of the commercialization of the Internet, but by
no means does it outweigh the bad.

The best thing to do "for future generations" is to revoke the voting
rights of welfare maggots. I don't see it happening very soon.

>The only thing evil needs to succeed is for good to do nothing.

Or for good to use the means of the evil to express their good ideas,
in the process becoming the very thing they are fighting against.

>Or just carry on with the same old same old, if that's what makes you feel
>better.  Best not to make waves, after all.  Might scare the horses.

Make a web site. Put it in your signature. Have others put it in their
signatures. Have people link to it from their pages. Advertise in
*appropriate* forums in appropriate manners.

It's threads like this that make me wonder what it really means to be
a Cypherpunk today. If the Cypherpunks (in the democratic sense)
actually support this, it is a sad day indeed.

As far as I'm concerned, go ahead and spam. You'll probably make FIJA
look like idiots, get some anonymous remailer sites shut down if you
spam through them, screw over any site even remotely mentioned in the
spam, get us blasted all over the abuse forums because it has been
discussed here recently, and accomplish the exact opposite of our 
goals. But go ahead if that's what makes you feel better. 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: lcs Mixmaster Remailer 
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 21:41:56 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: How to Spot a Government Infiltrator
Message-ID: <19981226132002.19035.qmail@nym.alias.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



How to Spot a Government Infiltrator 

                              by Mike Johnson

Those who have been studying the stories released to the media these days about the arrests of
various different people within the militia movement will doubtlessly have noted that government
infiltrators are usually involved. This should make people nervous. 

And rightly so. Our normal view of government is that the only people who should have to worry
about what the government is up to are people who are breaking the law. As the vast majority of
constitutional militia units are composed of people who are of good character and don't go around
breaking the law to begin with, they might feel that they should have little to worry about from the
government. 

Unfortunately that does not seem to be the case. The government appears to be going all out to
discredit the constitutional militia movement in this country. This effort on the part of the government
does include the use of government agents to infiltrate militia units and cause as many problems, hate
and discontent as they possibly can. In many instances, these government agents may not be readily
apparent as to who and what they are. Some of these people may have had extensive experience in
working undercover operations and may not make some of the more stupid mistakes. 

There are a variety of different roles that such government operatives may play. The first is that they
may simply act as a mole. They will do everything anybody else in the unit does, and do nothing at all
to call undue attention to themselves. However, they will relay everything that goes on within the unit
to their handlers. About the only indication a unit may have that they have been infiltrated by a mole
may be that they can't seem to be able to keep anything a secret. This type of role is the most difficult
for a unit to detect and deal with. Which is also possibly why most of the spy novels that get written
deal with various different ways to smoke out moles. While I wouldn't suggest that anybody try a
technique for which the only source of documentation is a work of fiction, it is an indication of just
how obnoxious this type of agent could be to deal with. 

Another role that a government agent might play may be that of a dissipator. A dissipator is one who
tries to redirect the course and energy of a unit in ways which will cause it to accomplish nothing of
any importance. They may also act so as to break a unit up by emphasizing differences,
disagreements and personality clashes between unit members. Given that the people who are
attracted to the constitutionalist militia movement usually tend to be strong willed and opinionated
people to begin with, such an agent may find that his task is somewhat easier than it might be if he
were working with other groups. Unit members should simply be encouraged not to take things
personally, be aware that there will be honest differences of opinion between the members of the unit,
and to be wary of somebody who does try to take everything personally, or set up cliques within the
unit. 

The final role which will be discussed is that of the agent provocateur. Such an agent infiltrates a unit
and tries to get the members of the unit to actually commit crimes, or make it look like they are
actually planning to commit crimes. One should also bear in mind that a government agent is not going
to be confined to operating within any one of the roles that have been discussed, and may likely mix
and match as they feel best. However, the role that has received the highest profile in government
operations these days is that of the agent provocateur. That is largely because the results of an
operation conducted by an agent provocateur or two make for good propaganda when the media
gets hold of it. The resultant publicity given to the arrests and the charges gets used to brand
everybody in the entire movement as a criminal. The fact that the entire thing was set up by someone
in the employ of the government isn't going to be mentioned at all by the mainstream media. 

For those who haven't caught on by now, your antenna should start to quiver in the presence of any
one, or especially a combination of the following behaviors/patterns demonstrated by a unit member: 

     (1) Wants to make bombs.
     (2) Wants to get everybody else to make bombs.
     (3) Wants people to buy/store large quantities of substances which could be used for
     explosives manufacture.
     (4) Fanatic about obtaining fully automatic weapons, without benefit of Class III
     license.
     (5) No obvious means of support, especially if they have lots of money to throw
     around.
     (6) Auto license tag changed on an irregular basis.
     (7) Encourages people to plan/do stupid things (raid armories, blow up office buildings,
     etc.)
     (8) Some groups can get auto tags run. They should be especially suspicious of
     anybody whose auto tag turns up a complete blank when run. (9) In our case, the guy
     was absolutely paranoid about his car being out of either his sight or his "wife's" sight for
     even a trivial amount of time.
     (10) Person claims to have a military background that they do not have. One individual
     claimed to be former Special Forces, but was found to be ignorant of some of the things
     that he should have known when quizzed by people who were former Special Forces.
     Depending on the level of trust that the members of your group have with each other, it
     might be a good idea to request to see the DD-214s of anybody claiming to have a
     military background.
     (11) One of your members has taken effective action to expose or block activities of
     the police or government preventing the expansion of or preservation of government
     power to control people and/or invade the privacy of the people.
     (12) One of your members (a) has an FFL; or (b) is involved in selling at gun shows; or
     (c) Is involved in promoting gun shows. 

Arguably the best way to deal with people who meet criteria 1-10 is simply to invite them to leave
the unit. As Starr and McCranie found out, trying to turn them in will do no good at all, so the next
best bet is to try to get them to leave. Failing that, disband unit, start again from scratch with people
you can trust after sufficient elapsed time. Given the way things are going right now, those who have
not joined up with public units may want to consider forming small closed units with just a small group
of people that they have known for a long time and that they trust. 

For persons in 11, and 12: Do your best to be sure the goons cannot find a pretext as that is what
they often work from. 

(*) Bill Albert of the Michigan Militia contributed to the list of items to look for and the discussion
which follows it. 







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Baskind 
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 06:05:47 +0800
To: sw-mod-ssl@engelschall.com
Subject: Re: Membership (One user says:)
In-Reply-To: <199812261452.JAA16580@devsys.jaguNET.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



[long and acrimonious discussion, at present ending with this message, clipped]

> Let's recall that once this ``situation'' is resolved, the list of
> volunteer members/coders will likely increase. Many, I'm sure, myself
> included, have held back.


I am following this discussion with some alarm, and I am sure that many 
others who rely on everyone involved in this acrimony to keep our sites 
running are too.  I think competition is very important, and the sort of 
internal competition you lot are involved in is crucial to the continued 
speedy evolution of the critical software you are making ( for us users, 
please be reminded).

Those who rely on your skills and expertise--in other words, the vast 
majority of Apache users, which means, apparently, some 50% of the active 
Web at this point, NEED you, all of you, as a group. to continue to share 
your brains and their collective product, with us. Because the vast 
majority of us couldn't do what you do if our lives depended on it.

I use mod_ssl, purely because it seemed easier to install and compile than 
Apache_SSL, and I really like Ralf's installation notes, not because I 
formed any judgement about the relative excellence of mod_ssl over 
Apache_SSL. I am not capable of making that judgement--I rely on YOUR 
assessments!

I really don't care if it actually is easier to install or not; --from my 
point of view, I honor Tim Hudson and Ben Laurie, Ralf Engelschall  and all 
the less public members of the Apache Group equally. Each of you 
contributes in a different way to make my life, and therefore livelihood, 
simpler and more pleasant.

Part of my skill set is political consulting--if there's anything I've 
learned, it is that mud not only sticks to both the flinger and flingee, 
but also clouds all the subsequent issues between both parties to a 
remarkably large degree.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 21:48:17 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <19981226133009.1692.qmail@hades.rpini.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





"If you don't learn how to beat your plowshares into swords
before they outlaw swords, then you sure as HELL ought to learn 
before they outlaw plowshares too. "

--Chuck Hammill 


#!/usr/local/bin/perl -0777-- -export-a-crypto-system-sig -RC4-3-lines-PERL
@k=unpack('C*',pack('H*',shift));for(@t=@s=0..255){$y=($k[$_%@k]+$s[$x=$_
]+$y)%256;&S}$x=$y=0;for(unpack('C*',<>)){$x++;$y=($s[$x%=256]+$y)%256;
&S;print pack(C,$_^=$s[($s[$x]+$s[$y])%256])}sub S{@s[$x,$y]=@s[$y,$x]}




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: lcs Mixmaster Remailer 
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 22:55:20 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Posse Comitatus
Message-ID: <19981226142005.14320.qmail@nym.alias.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





The Military's Growing Involvement In Domestic Law
                              Enforcement




For more than a century the U.S. military has been banned from involvement in routine domestic law
enforcement. This tradition of separating the role of national defense from domestic law enforcement
has it's origins in the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878. This law prohibits the army from being involved
in domestic arrests, or in searches and seizures. This ban was later extended to the other services. It
was passed in response to abuses committed by occupation troops in the South after the Civil War.

This long tradition, which has helped to insure liberty and democracy for Americans, was quietly
abandoned in 1989 when Congress and the Bush administration ordered the military into the "war on
drugs". Since then the Pentagon has spent more than $7 billion on counter-drug activities, using tens
of thousands of active duty and reserve personnel.

Active duty units are primarily used to monitor and patrol for drug smuggling activity using
sophisticated surveillance and communication systems. These units are assisted by thousands of
National Guard troops whose activities are not normally restrained by the Posse Comitatus
legislation. This allows them to perform routine police activities such as inspecting cargo, analyzing
intelligence, and translating wiretapped conversations.

The military's involvement in domestic policing activities has now been institutionalized and is being
coordinated in the Defense Department by the Joint Task Force Six (JTF-6).

Supporter of using the military in drug enforcement activities argue that drug use threatens the country
economically and socially. Some military commanders see counter-drug operations as providing
troops with useful training. While law enforcement officials see it as an opportunity to benefit from
sophisticated surveillance and communication systems that they wouldn't normally have access to.

Opponents of giving the military domestic law enforcement responsibilities and powers remind
supporter of the abuses by troops that originally lead to passage of the Posse Comitatus legislation.
They also point out that the military's involvement in drug enforcement efforts haven't had any
discernible impact on the availability of drugs in the United States; so why take the risk of losing our
liberties when we gain nothing in return.

People need to ask themselves where the movement to involve the military in domestic policing
activities is going to stop. Are Somalia, Hati, and Bosnia simply peacekeeping activities, or are they
being used to train U.S. troops for the near future when they will be patrolling the streets of the
United States as they now patrol Bosnia. 


#!/usr/local/bin/perl -0777-- -export-a-crypto-system-sig -RC4-3-lines-PERL
@k=unpack('C*',pack('H*',shift));for(@t=@s=0..255){$y=($k[$_%@k]+$s[$x=$_
]+$y)%256;&S}$x=$y=0;for(unpack('C*',<>)){$x++;$y=($s[$x%=256]+$y)%256;
&S;print pack(C,$_^=$s[($s[$x]+$s[$y])%256])}sub S{@s[$x,$y]=@s[$y,$x]}




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Dave Emery 
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 04:30:37 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: [g8hxe@zetnet.co.uk: [WUN] MAR: MILLENIUM BUG]
Message-ID: <19981226144702.A23871@die.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



----- Forwarded message from Keith Haywood  -----

Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 12:19:37 GMT
Cc: keith.haywood@icl.com

Hi all, I caught the following NAVTEX intercepts last night and
thought they may be of interest to others, all were received on 518KHz.
They are being repeated frequently be all the U/K stations and the 
Netherlands Coastguard, and similar messages are being broadcast by some 
of the Scandinavian stations.


--- log opened Fri Dec 25 1998 00:00:20 UTC ---


05:31:06 UTC ZCZC OB07
05:33:09 UTC PORTPATRICKRADIO

05:33:43 UTC ZCZC OA40
05:33:46 UTC NAVAREA ONE 533
05:33:48 UTC YEAR 2000 AND MILLENIUM BUG.
05:33:54 UTC 1ST JAN 1999 IS THE FIRST OF SEVERAL CRITICAL DATES THROUGH  
05:34:05 UTC 1999 AND 2000 WHEN SOME ELECTRONIC SYSTEMS MAY FAIL DUE 
TO 05:34:16 UTC THEIR INABILITY TO PROCESS THE DATE. SUCH SYSTEMS 
INCLUDE 05:34:27 UTC AUTOMATION AND SAFETY SYSTEMS WHOSE FAILURE MAY 
RESULT IN 05:34:38 UTC LOSS OF POWER, STEERING OR MALFUNCTIONING OF 
NAVIGATIONAL 
05:34:45 UTC OR COMMUNICATIONS EQUIPMENT.
05:34:50 UTC MASTERS ARE ADVISED TO CONSIDER CONTINGENCY PLANS IN 
05:34:56 UTC PREPARATION FOR POSSIBLE FAILURE, TAKING INTO ACCOUNT OF 
THE 05:35:07 UTC OPERATIONAL PROGRAMME OF THE SHIP.
05:35:09 UTC GUIDANCE ON THE RISKS AND PRECAUTIONARY ACTION, HAS BEEN 
05:35:20 UTC PUBLISHED BY THE INTERNATIONAL MARITIME ORGANISATION AS 
05:35:31 UTC MSC/CIRC.868, 'ADDRESSING THE YEAR 2000 PROBLEM', AND AS 
AS A 05:35:42 UTC CORRECTION TO ALL VOLUMES OF THE UKHO ADMIRALTY 
LIST OF RADIO SIGNALS.
05:35:49 UTC CANCEL THIS MESSAGE 012359Z JAN 99.
05:35:54 UTC NNNN  



07:52:24 UTC ZCZC PA47
07:52:36 UTC NETHERLANDS COASTGUARD
07:52:40 UTC NAVIGATIONALWARNING NR 47 250730UTC DEC
07:52:46 UTC EQUIPMENT FAILURE ONBOARD AND ASHORE
07:52:51 UTC DUE TO THE YEAR 2000 PROBLEM:
07:52:56 UTC SHIPPING SHOUZD BEWARE THAT ON THE
07:53:01 UTC FOLLOWING DATES PROBLEMS MAY OCCUR
07:53:06 UTC ONBOARD IN ENGINES, MACHINERY, CONTROL
07:53:12 UTC AND MONITORING, COMPUTER, NAVIGATION
07:53:18 UTC AND COMMUNICATION EQUIPMENT,
07:53:22 UTC DETECTION, ALARM AND OTHER SYSTEMS.
07:53:28 UTC SIMILAR PROBLEMS MAY OCCUR ASHORE
07:53:33 UTC AND MIGHT HAMPER NAVIGATION AND
07:53:38 UTC COMMUNICATION POSSIBILITIES
07:53:42 UTC FOR SHIPPING. DATES:
07:53:45 UTC 01-01-1999 , 09-09-1999
07:53:49 UTC 01-01-2000 , 29-02-2000, 01-03-2000
07:53:54 UTC 31-12-2000 , 01-01-2001, 01-03-2001
07:53:59 UTC SHIPPING IS URGENTLY ADVISED TO
07:54:04 UTC NAVIGATE WITH EXTREME CAUTION ON
07:54:09 UTC THE AFOREMENTIONED DATES AND TO
07:54:13 UTC TAKE NECESSARY PRECAUTIONS WHERR
07:54:18 UTC POSSIBLE.
07:54:20 UTC CANCEL THIS MESSAGE 012359UTC JAN 99
07:54:25 UTC NNNN

Keith Haywood
G8HXE
Manchester
U/K.




---
The Worldwide UTE News (WUN) mailing list. WUN is a non-profit,
dues-free club established in 1995 to share information on shortwave
utilities.  For more information: http://www.gem.net/~berri/wun/

----- End forwarded message -----

-- 
	Dave Emery N1PRE,  die@die.com  DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass. 
PGP fingerprint = 2047/4D7B08D1 DE 6E E1 CC 1F 1D 96 E2  5D 27 BD B0 24 88 C3 18




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: DOOM Anonymous Untraceable User 
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 23:26:12 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199812261455.PAA21979@rogue.seclab.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Internet is slowing China's efforts to maintain control

To eliminate political opposition by the China Democratic Party, Chinese
authorities are putting prominent dissidents on trial for "inciting the
overthrow of state power," but the Internet is making it difficult for them
to accomplish their goal.  The Washington, D.C.-based electronic magazine
VIP Reference is a widely-used news source and network for dissident
activities.  Boston University professor Merle Goldman says, "It was
relatively easy for the authorities to get rid of Democracy Walls in
Beijing and in other cities in 1979, but it is virtually impossible to close down
the use of the Internet as a means of political communication." 

(Washington Post 18 Dec 98)




#!/usr/local/bin/perl -0777-- -export-a-crypto-system-sig -RC4-3-lines-PERL
@k=unpack('C*',pack('H*',shift));for(@t=@s=0..255){$y=($k[$_%@k]+$s[$x=$_
]+$y)%256;&S}$x=$y=0;for(unpack('C*',<>)){$x++;$y=($s[$x%=256]+$y)%256;
&S;print pack(C,$_^=$s[($s[$x]+$s[$y])%256])}sub S{@s[$x,$y]=@s[$y,$x]}




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Austin Hill" 
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 07:30:41 +0800
To: 
Subject: Zero-Knowledge Freedom AnonymousIP Whitepaper
Message-ID: <001601be3121$6f64a060$1f01a8c0@notebook.zks.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Zero-Knowledge has put up a draft of a whitepaper explaining the technical
details of it's coming Freedom Internet Privacy system.

The paper discusses the technical details of our AnonymousIP protocol and
our Pseudonymous E-mail System.

This is an early draft and comments/questions are appreciated.

People familiar with Mixmaster, PipeNet, Cypherpunk Remailers and Onion
Routing will find this whitepaper to address many of the same problems with
regards to Internet Anonymity & Privacy.

The paper is available at http://www.zks.net/products/whitepapers.asp

Thanks,

Austin

_________________________________________________________________________
Austin Hill                                   Zero-Knowledge Systems Inc.
President                                                Montreal, Quebec
Phone: 514.286.2636 Ext. 226                            Fax: 514.286.2755
E-mail: austin@zks.net                                 http://www.zks.net

             Zero Knowledge Systems Inc. - Nothing Personal

PGP Fingerprints
2.6.3i = 3F 42 A2 0D AF 78 20 ED  A2 BB AD BE 8B 40 5E 64
5.5.3i = 77 1E 62 21 B3 F0 EB C0  AA 6C 65 30 56 CA BA C4 94 26 EC 00
keys available at
http://www.nai.com/products/security/public_keys/pub_key_default.asp
_________________________________________________________________________




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Max Inux 
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 08:34:00 +0800
To: Multiple recipients of list 
Subject: Car computer navigator forgets to mention ferry  (fwd)
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain






--   Max Inux   Hey Christy!!! KeyID 0x8907E9E5
Kinky Sex makes the world go round O R Strong crypto makes the world safe
       If crypto is outlawed only outlaws will have crypto
Fingerprint(Photo Also): 259D 59F7 D98C CD73 1ACD 54Ea 6C43 4877 8907 E9E5



---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 12:35:20 -0800 (PST)
X-Loop: openpgp.net
From: William Knowles 
To: DC-Stuff , aaa-list@lists.netlink.co.uk
Subject: Car computer navigator forgets to mention ferry 

POTSDAM, Germany (AP) [12.26.98] - A German couple out for a
Christmas drive near Berlin ended up in a river - apparently 
because their luxury car's computer forgot to mention they 
had to wait for a ferry.
 
The 57-year-old driver and his passenger were not injured in 
the accident, police said Saturday.
 
Several companies sell computer navigators, some of which are 
attached to dashboards and serve as electronic road maps. Some 
offer traffic updates and Internet connections.

The German couple was out driving Friday night when they came 
to a ferry crossing at the Havel River in Caputh, six miles 
from Berlin.
 
That information, however, was never stored in the satellite
steered navigation system they were using, police said. The driver 
kept going straight in the dark, expecting a bridge, and ended up 
in the water.

River traffic was stopped for two hours while the car was fished 
out about 13 feet from the river bank.

``You can't always blindly rely on technology,'' a coast guard 
police officer said.


==
Some day, on the corporate balance sheet, there will be 
an entry which reads, "Information"; for in most cases 
the information is more valuable than the hardware which
processes it. -- Grace Murray Hopper
==
http://www.dis.org/erehwon/






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Steve Schear 
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 14:05:43 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Locating radio receivers
In-Reply-To: <199801192155.NAA00465@comsec.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



There has been quite a bit of discussion on the list of late regarding
covert radio communication. I've been doing some investigation and have
identified a promising low probablity of intercept technology for
terrestrial, ground-to-air and earth-to-satellite communication. I'd like
to assemble a small team to build and test a proof of concept. Anyone with
interest and skillsplease contact me?

--Steve






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Reeza! 
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 20:17:36 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: Re: jury spam justifiable?
In-Reply-To: <199812260635.HAA02005@replay.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981226214451.03a76b80@205.83.192.13>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



There are so many comments from Anon on this thread,

It defeats whole purpose of Anon.

Fuck all you Anon Y. Mouses,,,, 

spineless bastards.

I don't trumpet my true name, but my identity is findable.

But you, you haven't the conviction to stand up and say...... anything.

Reeza!





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 13:00:50 +0800
To: cryptography@c2.net
Subject: Re: Zero-Knowledge Freedom AnonymousIP Whitepaper
Message-ID: <199812270425.FAA12203@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



> Zero-Knowledge has put up a draft of a whitepaper explaining the technical
> details of it's coming Freedom Internet Privacy system.
> 
> The paper discusses the technical details of our AnonymousIP protocol and
> our Pseudonymous E-mail System.
> 
> This is an early draft and comments/questions are appreciated.

Have algorithms been chosen? If I understand right, letting different users use
different algos would make some users' messages look different from others
while bouncing around in the network. I don't think anyone even suspects
3DES and a KEA cognate would fail.

The "topologically close" tradeoff (i.e, a gain in performance for an
unmeasured loss in security) seems to be more exploit-bait than optimization;
it might be wiser not to enable this part of automatic route selection by
default unless/until its effects on security are investigated more thoroughly.
At least give me a while to make an attack on it. :)

> 
> People familiar with Mixmaster, PipeNet, Cypherpunk Remailers and Onion
> Routing will find this whitepaper to address many of the same problems with
> regards to Internet Anonymity & Privacy.
> 
> The paper is available at http://www.zks.net/products/whitepapers.asp
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Austin
> 
> _________________________________________________________________________
> Austin Hill                                   Zero-Knowledge Systems Inc.
> President                                                Montreal, Quebec
> Phone: 514.286.2636 Ext. 226                            Fax: 514.286.2755
> E-mail: austin@zks.net                                 http://www.zks.net
> 
>              Zero Knowledge Systems Inc. - Nothing Personal
> 
> PGP Fingerprints
> 2.6.3i = 3F 42 A2 0D AF 78 20 ED  A2 BB AD BE 8B 40 5E 64
> 5.5.3i = 77 1E 62 21 B3 F0 EB C0  AA 6C 65 30 56 CA BA C4 94 26 EC 00
> keys available at
> http://www.nai.com/products/security/public_keys/pub_key_default.asp
> _________________________________________________________________________




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 03:03:22 +0800
To: mac-crypto@vmeng.com, e$@vmeng.com
Subject: Friedman sings, part II.
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



http://www.booknotes.org/transcripts/10086.htm

This time it's for Brian Lamb's "Booknotes" show on CSPAN. The above is a
transcript, about 60k.

Cheers,
RAH
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 07:55:49 +0800
To: jy@jya.com
Subject: David Angell and html
Message-ID: <3686BFF8.4A4F@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary..3999.1071713823.multipart/mixed"

--Boundary..3999.1071713823.multipart/mixed
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Sunday 12/27/98 4:13 PM

John Young

I went to http://www.page1book.com this morning looking for books on
HLML.

I asked the clerk what was a good book on html.  The clerk pointed
me to HTML 4 Unleashed, second edition, by Rick Darnell, et al.

A guy standing next to me volunteered that he wrote books on 
computing.

He advised getting a reference book, looking at examples on Internet,
RESEARCH the code, then modify the RESEARCHED the code.

He introduced himself.  David Angell.

  ISDN for Dummies (--For Dummies) ~ Usually ships in 2-3 days
  David Angell / Paperback / Published 1996 
  Our Price: $19.99 ~ You Save: $5.00 (20%) http://www.amazon.com

He was visiting his mother who lives in abq.

Angell now lives in Austin TOO.	

I am on the net to download THE [your?] code at
http://jya.com/crypto.htm.  
To RESEARCH it, of course.

I am experimenting with  for background
for Pro Se Litigation with the US Federal Government.
http://www.jya.com/nsasuit.txt

Keep a good sense of humor.  And up-wind too, of course.
http://www.zolatimes.com/v2.29/bw1.html 

I CONTINUE to recall Bob Serna's joke.

	Q  What is the difference between a terrorist  
           	and a woman with pms?  
  
  	A  You can negotiate with a terrorist.  
  
We got to get this UNFORTUNATE MATTER settled BEFORE IT GETS
WORSE!

Later
bill



Thursday 12/10/98 5:08 PM

J Kevin O'Brien, Chief
Freedom of Information-Privacy Act Section
Office of Public Affairs
U.S. Department of Justice
Federal Bureau of Investigation
Washington D. C. 20535

O'Brien

I received your form letter dated DEC 02 1998.

YES, I want the information!

I return your completed form.

Sandia assigned me to break electronic locks for the FBI/ERF.

SSA Mike Uttaro was my direct contact.  His boss was SSA Mike McDevitt.

The FBI is breaking the law under the veil of classification abuse.

I may write another article
---
False Security   
   
		        William H. Payne	   
                                      
  			Abstract   

Wiegand wire plastic credit card-sized entry access credentials are
the easiest to counterfeit.  Yet Access Control & SECURITY SYSTEMS 
INTEGRATION, September 1998 , www.prox.com  http/www.securitysolutions.com
 ran a full page ad.  
  
  "Why 130 million Wiegand cards are in use throughout the world .   
   
  The most secure of all access card technologies.   
   
  HID Wiegand cards are virtually impossible to counterfeit... any attempt to    
  alter them destroys them! ...   
   
  Since no direct contact with the card is required, they are totally enclosed,   
  making them absolutely immune to the elements and a frustration of   
  vandals. ...    
   
     	The secrets to the security of an   
  	HID Wiegand card are those little   
      	enclosed wire strips. Once corrupted,   
  	they won't work."   
  
Purpose of this article is to tell you how to counterfeit Wiegand 
http://www.securitysolutions.com/  and give you insight into Real Security. 
  
	Fumble, Bumble and Inept Funds Electronic Lock Breaking at   
	Sandia National Laboratories.   


http://www.jya.com/fbi-en7898.htm

			False Security   
   
		        William H. Payne	   
                                      
  			Abstract   

Wiegand wire plastic credit card-sized entry access credentials are
the easiest to counterfeit.  Yet Access Control & SECURITY SYSTEMS 
INTEGRATION, September 1998 , www.prox.com  http/www.securitysolutions.com
 ran a full page ad.  
  
  "Why 130 million Wiegand cards are in use throughout the world .   
   
  The most secure of all access card technologies.   
   
  HID Wiegand cards are virtually impossible to counterfeit... any attempt to    
  alter them destroys them! ...   
   
  Since no direct contact with the card is required, they are totally enclosed,   
  making them absolutely immune to the elements and a frustration of   
  vandals. ...    
   
     	The secrets to the security of an   
  	HID Wiegand card are those little   
      	enclosed wire strips. Once corrupted,   
  	they won't work."   
  
Purpose of this article is to tell you how to counterfeit Wiegand 
http://www.securitysolutions.com/  and give you insight into Real Security. 
  
	Fumble, Bumble and Inept Funds Electronic Lock Breaking at   
	Sandia National Laboratories.   


http://www.jya.com/fbi-en7898.htm
---
Counterfeiting Wiegand Wire Access Credentials
     
                                   Bill Payne
     
                                 October 16,1996
     
                                    Abstract
     
                  Wiegand wire access credentials are easy and
                  inexpensive to counterfeit.
     
        Access Control & Security Systems Integration magazine, October
        1996 [http://www/securitysolutions.com] published the article,
     
             Wiegand technology stands the test of time
     
             by PAUL J. BODELL, page 12
     
             Many card and reader manufacturers offer Wiegand (pronounced
             wee-gand) output.  However, only three companies in the
             world make Wiegand readers.  Sensor Engineering of Hamden
             Conn., holds the patent for Wiegand, and Sensor has licensed
             Cardkey of Simi Valley, Calif., and Doduco of Pforzheim,
             Germany, to manufacture Wiegand cards and readers. ...  A
             Wiegand output reader is not the same thing as a Wiegand
             reader,  and it is important to understand the differences.
     
                In brief, Wiegand reader use the Wiegand effect to
             translate card information around the patented Wiegand
             effect in which a segment of a specially treated wire
             generates an electronic pulse when subjected to a specific
             magnetic field.  If the pulse is generated when the wire is
             near a pick-up coil, the pulse can be detected by a circuit.
             Lining up several rows of wires and passing them by a cold
             would generate a series of pulses.  Lining up two rows of
             wires - calling on row "zero bits" and the other "one bits"
             - and passing them by two different coils would generate two
             series of pulses, or data bits.  These data bits can then be
             interpreted as binary data and used to control other
             devices.  If you seal the coils in a rugged housing with
             properly placed magnets, and LED and some simple circuitry,
             you have a Wiegand reader.  Carefully laminate the special
             wires in vinyl, and artwork, and hot-stamp a number on the
             vinyl, and you have a Wiegand card.
     
             IN THE BEGINNING
     
               Wiegand was first to introduce to the access control
             market in the late 1970s.  It was immediately successful
             because it filled the need for durable, secure card and
             reader technology.
               Embedded in the cards, Wiegand wires cannot be altered or
             duplicated. ...
     
        Bodell's Last statement is incorrect.
     
        Tasks for EASILY counterfeiting Wiegand wire cards are
     
        1    Locate the wires inside the card to read the 0s and 1s.
     
        2    Build an ACCEPTABLE copy of the card.
     
        Bodell's clear explanation of the working of a Wiegand card can
        be visualized
     
             zero row    |     |   |
     
             one row        |          |
     
             binary      0  1  0   0   1
             representation
     
        Solutions to Task 1
     
             A    X-ray the card
     
             B    MAGNI VIEW FILM,  Mylar film reads magnetic fields ...
                  Edmunds Scientific Company, catalog 16N1, page
                  205, C33,447  $11.75
     
        is placed over the top of the Wiegand card.
     
        COW MAGNET,  Cow magnetics allow farmers to trap metal in the
        stomachs of their cows.  Edmunds, page 204, C31,101 $10.75
        is placed under the card.
     
        Location of the wires is easily seen on the green film.
     
        Mark the position of the wires with a pen.
     
        Next chop the card vertically using a shear into about 80/1000s
        paper-match-sized strips.
     
        Don't worry about cutting a wire or two.
     
        Note that a 0 has the pen mark to the top.  A 1 has the pen mark
        at the bottom.
     
        Take a business card and layout the "paper match"-like strips to
        counterfeit the card number desired.
     
        Don't worry about spacing.  Wiegand output is self-clocking!
     
        Tape the "paper-match - like" strips to the business card.
     
        Only the FUNCTION of the card needs to be reproduced!
     
                                     History
     
        Breaking electronic locks was done as "work for others" at Sandia
     
        National Laboratories beginning in 1992 funded by the Federal
        Bureau of Investigation/Engineering Research Facility, Quantico,
        VA.
     
        The FBI opined that this work was SECRET/NATIONAL SECURITY
        INFORMATION.
     
        Details of the consequences of this work are covered in
     
             Fired Worker File Lawsuit Against Sandia
             Specialist Says He Balked When Lab Sought Electronic
             Picklock Software, Albuquer Journal, Sunday April 25, 1993
     
             State-sanctioned paranoia,  EE Times, January 22, 1996
     
             One man's battle,  EE Times, March 22, 1994
     
             Damn the torpedoes,  EE Times, June 6, 1994
     
             Protecting properly classified info,  EE Times, April 11,
             1994
     
             DOE to scrutinize fairness in old whistle-blower cases,
             Albuquerque Tribune, Nov 7 1995
     
             DOE boss accelerates whistle-blower protection,  Albuquerque
             Tribune, March 27, 1996
     
             DOE doesn't plan to compensate 'old' whistle-blowers with
             money, Albuquerque Tribune September 27, 199
---
Here is one of my previous articles.

http://www.zolatimes.com/v2.29/bw1.html 
http://www.aci.net/kalliste/bw1

We should get this settled before IT GETS WORSE.

Black and white is an example of  WORSE.

bill payne

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 02:55:22 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Mixmaster client 4 the Mac OS?
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <199812271815.TAA27705@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Fri, 25 Dec 1998 22:48:46 -0500  Robert Guerra  wrote:

>> I heard sometime last summer that the mixmaster client 
>> was being ported to the Mac. Does anyone know the status
>> of this project?


>Perhaps it would be an interesting project which either used the 
>PGPsdk libraries, or GNUPG code...

What the fuck is this guy talking about?  PGPsdk libraries for
Mixmaster?

I must admit, I was surprised not to see a (l)user@aol.com in
this.  Go and play on the fuckwit PGP list and give us a break
over here.



Razor









From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 11:53:58 +0800
To: FitugMix 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981228010513.008cc410@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 09:53 AM 12/22/98 +0100, Falcon, aka FitugMix ,
wrote about a suggestion to chop crypto or other contraband material 
into separate streams, e.g. bit 1 of each byte in stream 1, etc.,
hoping that this would be "legal" because it's not really encryption,
though if managed carefully it would still be hard to read.

That's of course a distinct question from "will this make the
information hard enough to notice that I won't get caught?";
the answer to that question depends on many factors besides the
direct details themselves, like who you use this to send things to,
and how you advertise the things you make available to send, etc.

> I'd like legal advice on this - is the idea correct? 

I'm not only not a US lawyer, I'm also not a German lawyer,
or a Chinese lawyer, or a Russian lawyer, and you're not paying me,
so this is not legal advice :-)  But my strongly considered 
engineering opinion is "Don't bet on it if it really matters."

If you use the system to distribute a copyrighted work,
you've still distributed a copyrighted work, even if you've 
shredded the paper and shipped the shreds and sticky-tape.  No win.

And if you try this in a country like China, where the laws are
arbitrary and defined on the spot, the fact that you may not have
violated the letters of a written law is potentially irrelevant.
The Chinese government is currently threatening to execute someone
who distributed 30000 email addresses of mainland Chinese to some
foreign human-rights activists - "assisting enemies of the state"
is seldom a well-defined crime; only the punishment is consistent. 

On the other hand, in countries that have well-defined laws,
and law enforcement organizations and courts that only enforce
the laws that are defined, and always want to enforce them correctly,
it can be entertaining to play with technologies like this.
Sometimes this gets them to change the rules, usually administratively
rather than through a public political process, but sometimes
it can make them look silly and feel bad about what they're doing.

Ron Rivest's "Chaffing and Winnowing" protocol is a great example,
and you can find details on your favorite web search engines.
	(Farming definitions: "Chaff" is the stuff you don't want
	that comes with wheat, like stems and hulls, and
	"winnowing" is the process of separating wheat from chaff.)
Basically, you define an authentication checksum that uses a key,
so only the sender and the intended recipient can validate a checksum.
Then you send a series of entries like
	BitNumber, 0, checksum(bitN,BitNumber,key), 1, checksum(bitN,BitNumber,Key)
where the checksum is correct depending on whether the bit N of the message
is a 0 or a 1.  There is no encryption used - only authentication,
so it's perfectly legal in some jurisdictions, but only the recipient
can tell which bits are "wheat" and which bits are "chaff".
One of the cool things about it is that you don't need to use
fake material as chaff - somebody else's wheat works just as well,
because the checksums fail if you use your key on their bits.
It's a very inefficient protocol, but there are ways to make it
less bad (not *good*, but at least less bad.)


				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 10:15:04 +0800
To: mail2news_nospam-19981227-alt.privacy.anon-server+alt.online-service.sprynet@anon.lcs.mit.edu
Subject: Mail2news@anon.lcs.mit.edu Not Propagating to Compuserve/Sprynet
Message-ID: <199812280147.CAA25100@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Has anyone else experienced posts sent via the anon.lcs.mit.edu
mail2news gateway not propagating to Compuserve/Sprynet's news
servers?  I've made a couple of posts, both anonymously and
non-anonymously via that gateway, and they haven't been showing up
at CIS/Sprynet.  Yet they've been archived on Dejanews and replies
to them from users on other servers have shown up.

Is this a propagation problem, or are Compuserve and Sprynet
blocking posts from that gateway?




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 03:13:47 +0800
To: abd@CDT.ORG
Subject: Hacking for Girlies and FBI news
Message-ID: <3687C285.172C@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary..3999.1071713823.multipart/mixed"

--Boundary..3999.1071713823.multipart/mixed
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Monday 12/28/98 9:27 AM

John Young

BUSINESS OUTLOOK, Albuquerque Journal
Monday December 28, 1998 http://www.abqjournal.com/

Consultant feels heat from FBI

By Aaron Baca

Carolyn Meinel says she just
can't win.
  Three months ago - and
many times before and
since - the East Mountain author
and computer-security consultant
was the target of a diatribe left by
computer hackers who broke into
and vandalized the New York
Times' Web page, she says.
Now, Meinel says she is
suspected by the IBI as being one
of the culprits in the New York
Times computer hack.
  She says the FBI told her that
she's not a suspect, but asked her to
take a lie-detector test, which
suggests she is
  "The last contact I had with them
(the FBI) was about a month ago,"
Meinel said in a telephone
interview with the Journal. "I don't
think they would want me to take a
test if they weren't trying to trip
me tip up somehow so they could come
back at me later."
Meinel says she offered to assist
the FBI man investigation of the
incident because of her experience
with hackers and her experience
with those who took credit for that.
back - HFG, or Hacking for
Girlies.
  So far the FBI will not say if it
suspects Meinel. Doug Beldon, a
spokesman for the  Albuquerque
FBI office, said the FBI is
investigating the incident But he
said he couldn't comment about the
investigation.
  The New York Times web page
was attacked by a group claiming to
be HFG in September. The group
peppered the site with profanity
and pornographic images. They
also left hidden messages on the
page directed at Meinel and others..
Meinel is known in the hacker
community as the Happy Hacker
She has written two editions of a
book by the same title and helped
found an online community about
hacking. She has also written
numerous articles on computer
security, including a recent article
for Scientific American.
  In all of her articles, Meinel is
critical of some hackers for the
damage they can cause. She says
she promotes friendly hacking,
which she compares to the
tinkering or exploring shade-tree
mechanics often engage in on their
automobiles.
  The same group, HAG, is believed
to have broken into the computers
of Albuquerque Internet service
provider Rt66 in August. In that
attack, more than 1,400 credit
card numbers belonging to
subscribers were compromised.
  Meinel says she has been
advised by her own lawyer to
stay out of the case now.
  "There's a lot I Think I could have
offered the FBI, Meinel says.  "but I 
think it's wise not to say anthing now.  
I could get myself in trouble if I helped 
with this investigation now."
---
I am reading about html, reading our son's web site code - which he got
from another Moto employee - and experimenting by modifying it.

I just downloaded your stats and table code.  I studied you index.htm
and cryptome pages a bit yesterday.

Morales and I talked this morning.  

As soon as we get something working, then we will try to get others to
help.

Like Ashok Kaushal aka AK.

We plan to give the Great Satan some MORE deservedly
[http://www.zolatimes.com/v2.29/bw1.html]
REALLY BAD international press.

Until, of course, we get the Great Satan to shape-up and get some of his
messes SETTLED.

ABQ FBI agents Kohl and Schum attempted to intimidate me once.  US
Marshals too.
http://www.jya.com/whpscalia.htm

On the second occasion ABQ FBI agents Kohl and Moore delivered  US
assistant
attorney Gorrence's letter to me. http://www.jya.com/whprjg.htm

Moore apologized when Kohl handed me the letter.  

Nonetheless, this earned the instigators criminal complaint affidavits.
http://www.jya.com/whpscalia.htm

Kohl had on a black fanny pack.

FBI/Engineering Research Facility Special Supervisory Agents [SSA] I
worked with
carry their guns in fanny packs.  Holsters were too obvious the FBI told
me.

FBI SSAs also carry cell phones.

They need to phone in to find out what to do next.

Morales and I need picture of the Great Satan.  But, of course, being
law-abiding
citizens, we don't want to infringe anyone's registered trademark.

Campbell soup did not sue Andy Warhol.  

Therefore we will give Underwood full credit if we decide to use it
registered 
trademark to depict the Great Satan.

Back to .vxd writing.  I think I have to get win98 working today so I
can
run the 98ddk.

The vmm.inc macro which provides access to Microsoft's Windows Virtual
Machine Manager does not work the Hazzah or Thielen and Woodruff device
driver code.  

While I modified vmm.inc to expand without error, link 32 is giving an
error
on some of the segments declarations in the module definition file.

Until I get a working example of  Device Descriptor Block  accessed in
the 
protected mode, I am in a bit of trouble with my current conversion
project.

Sure wish we could get these UNFORTUNATE matters settled so that Morales
and I could spend time on other constructive projects.

Later
bill



Thursday 12/10/98 5:08 PM

J Kevin O'Brien, Chief
Freedom of Information-Privacy Act Section
Office of Public Affairs
U.S. Department of Justice
Federal Bureau of Investigation
Washington D. C. 20535

O'Brien

I received your form letter dated DEC 02 1998.

YES, I want the information!

I return your completed form.

Sandia assigned me to break electronic locks for the FBI/ERF.

SSA Mike Uttaro was my direct contact.  His boss was SSA Mike McDevitt.

The FBI is breaking the law under the veil of classification abuse.

I may write another article
---
False Security   
   
		        William H. Payne	   
                                      
  			Abstract   

Wiegand wire plastic credit card-sized entry access credentials are
the easiest to counterfeit.  Yet Access Control & SECURITY SYSTEMS 
INTEGRATION, September 1998 , www.prox.com  http/www.securitysolutions.com
 ran a full page ad.  
  
  "Why 130 million Wiegand cards are in use throughout the world .   
   
  The most secure of all access card technologies.   
   
  HID Wiegand cards are virtually impossible to counterfeit... any attempt to    
  alter them destroys them! ...   
   
  Since no direct contact with the card is required, they are totally enclosed,   
  making them absolutely immune to the elements and a frustration of   
  vandals. ...    
   
     	The secrets to the security of an   
  	HID Wiegand card are those little   
      	enclosed wire strips. Once corrupted,   
  	they won't work."   
  
Purpose of this article is to tell you how to counterfeit Wiegand 
http://www.securitysolutions.com/  and give you insight into Real Security. 
  
	Fumble, Bumble and Inept Funds Electronic Lock Breaking at   
	Sandia National Laboratories.   


http://www.jya.com/fbi-en7898.htm

			False Security   
   
		        William H. Payne	   
                                      
  			Abstract   

Wiegand wire plastic credit card-sized entry access credentials are
the easiest to counterfeit.  Yet Access Control & SECURITY SYSTEMS 
INTEGRATION, September 1998 , www.prox.com  http/www.securitysolutions.com
 ran a full page ad.  
  
  "Why 130 million Wiegand cards are in use throughout the world .   
   
  The most secure of all access card technologies.   
   
  HID Wiegand cards are virtually impossible to counterfeit... any attempt to    
  alter them destroys them! ...   
   
  Since no direct contact with the card is required, they are totally enclosed,   
  making them absolutely immune to the elements and a frustration of   
  vandals. ...    
   
     	The secrets to the security of an   
  	HID Wiegand card are those little   
      	enclosed wire strips. Once corrupted,   
  	they won't work."   
  
Purpose of this article is to tell you how to counterfeit Wiegand 
http://www.securitysolutions.com/  and give you insight into Real Security. 
  
	Fumble, Bumble and Inept Funds Electronic Lock Breaking at   
	Sandia National Laboratories.   


http://www.jya.com/fbi-en7898.htm
---
Counterfeiting Wiegand Wire Access Credentials
     
                                   Bill Payne
     
                                 October 16,1996
     
                                    Abstract
     
                  Wiegand wire access credentials are easy and
                  inexpensive to counterfeit.
     
        Access Control & Security Systems Integration magazine, October
        1996 [http://www/securitysolutions.com] published the article,
     
             Wiegand technology stands the test of time
     
             by PAUL J. BODELL, page 12
     
             Many card and reader manufacturers offer Wiegand (pronounced
             wee-gand) output.  However, only three companies in the
             world make Wiegand readers.  Sensor Engineering of Hamden
             Conn., holds the patent for Wiegand, and Sensor has licensed
             Cardkey of Simi Valley, Calif., and Doduco of Pforzheim,
             Germany, to manufacture Wiegand cards and readers. ...  A
             Wiegand output reader is not the same thing as a Wiegand
             reader,  and it is important to understand the differences.
     
                In brief, Wiegand reader use the Wiegand effect to
             translate card information around the patented Wiegand
             effect in which a segment of a specially treated wire
             generates an electronic pulse when subjected to a specific
             magnetic field.  If the pulse is generated when the wire is
             near a pick-up coil, the pulse can be detected by a circuit.
             Lining up several rows of wires and passing them by a cold
             would generate a series of pulses.  Lining up two rows of
             wires - calling on row "zero bits" and the other "one bits"
             - and passing them by two different coils would generate two
             series of pulses, or data bits.  These data bits can then be
             interpreted as binary data and used to control other
             devices.  If you seal the coils in a rugged housing with
             properly placed magnets, and LED and some simple circuitry,
             you have a Wiegand reader.  Carefully laminate the special
             wires in vinyl, and artwork, and hot-stamp a number on the
             vinyl, and you have a Wiegand card.
     
             IN THE BEGINNING
     
               Wiegand was first to introduce to the access control
             market in the late 1970s.  It was immediately successful
             because it filled the need for durable, secure card and
             reader technology.
               Embedded in the cards, Wiegand wires cannot be altered or
             duplicated. ...
     
        Bodell's Last statement is incorrect.
     
        Tasks for EASILY counterfeiting Wiegand wire cards are
     
        1    Locate the wires inside the card to read the 0s and 1s.
     
        2    Build an ACCEPTABLE copy of the card.
     
        Bodell's clear explanation of the working of a Wiegand card can
        be visualized
     
             zero row    |     |   |
     
             one row        |          |
     
             binary      0  1  0   0   1
             representation
     
        Solutions to Task 1
     
             A    X-ray the card
     
             B    MAGNI VIEW FILM,  Mylar film reads magnetic fields ...
                  Edmunds Scientific Company, catalog 16N1, page
                  205, C33,447  $11.75
     
        is placed over the top of the Wiegand card.
     
        COW MAGNET,  Cow magnetics allow farmers to trap metal in the
        stomachs of their cows.  Edmunds, page 204, C31,101 $10.75
        is placed under the card.
     
        Location of the wires is easily seen on the green film.
     
        Mark the position of the wires with a pen.
     
        Next chop the card vertically using a shear into about 80/1000s
        paper-match-sized strips.
     
        Don't worry about cutting a wire or two.
     
        Note that a 0 has the pen mark to the top.  A 1 has the pen mark
        at the bottom.
     
        Take a business card and layout the "paper match"-like strips to
        counterfeit the card number desired.
     
        Don't worry about spacing.  Wiegand output is self-clocking!
     
        Tape the "paper-match - like" strips to the business card.
     
        Only the FUNCTION of the card needs to be reproduced!
     
                                     History
     
        Breaking electronic locks was done as "work for others" at Sandia
     
        National Laboratories beginning in 1992 funded by the Federal
        Bureau of Investigation/Engineering Research Facility, Quantico,
        VA.
     
        The FBI opined that this work was SECRET/NATIONAL SECURITY
        INFORMATION.
     
        Details of the consequences of this work are covered in
     
             Fired Worker File Lawsuit Against Sandia
             Specialist Says He Balked When Lab Sought Electronic
             Picklock Software, Albuquer Journal, Sunday April 25, 1993
     
             State-sanctioned paranoia,  EE Times, January 22, 1996
     
             One man's battle,  EE Times, March 22, 1994
     
             Damn the torpedoes,  EE Times, June 6, 1994
     
             Protecting properly classified info,  EE Times, April 11,
             1994
     
             DOE to scrutinize fairness in old whistle-blower cases,
             Albuquerque Tribune, Nov 7 1995
     
             DOE boss accelerates whistle-blower protection,  Albuquerque
             Tribune, March 27, 1996
     
             DOE doesn't plan to compensate 'old' whistle-blowers with
             money, Albuquerque Tribune September 27, 199
---
Here is one of my previous articles.

http://www.zolatimes.com/v2.29/bw1.html 
http://www.aci.net/kalliste/bw1

We should get this settled before IT GETS WORSE.

Black and white is an example of  WORSE.

bill payne

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H/flP8Kvr90fSlpWA//Z
--Boundary..3999.1071713823.multipart/mixed--



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Eric Cordian 
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 03:12:53 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Anthrax Theatre II
Message-ID: <199812281843.MAA27470@wire.insync.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Performances of the award-winning "Anthrax Theatre" continue across
the nation.  Innovative variations on the original script are being
demonstrated to test audiences, including stripping 200 Mervyn's
shoppers naked, and forcing them to rinse themselves with laundry
bleach.
 
-----
 
POMONA, Calif. (AP) -- Hundreds of people were quarantined for hours
inside a nightclub after a phony anthrax threat, at least the seventh
such hoax in Southern California this month.
 
No trace of the potentially deadly bacterium was found in preliminary
tests, authorities said Sunday.
 
A Los Angeles County hazardous materials team and the FBI's Domestic
Terrorism Task Force were called to the Glass House club at 11:50 p.m.
Saturday after a man called the Police Department and said ``a
significant quantity'' of anthrax would be released into the air,
police Lt. Gary Graham said.
 
If inhaled and then left untreated, anthrax spores can cause
respiratory failure and death within a week.
 
About 800 people were kept inside the club for about four hours while
the air-conditioning system was checked and samples taken for further
study, Graham said.
 
Clubgoers then were taken outside and given information on anthrax
symptoms. They were then allowed to return to the club if they wished.
 
Authorities had not immediately determined whether the threat was
related to six others since the middle of the month. In each case, no
evidence of anthrax was found:
 
--On Dec. 14, a secretary at the Perris School District in Riverside
County opened a letter that said, ``you've been exposed to anthrax.''
About 20 people were isolated and decontaminated.
 
--On Dec. 17, an office building in the Westwood area of Los Angeles
received a letter threatening exposure to anthrax. Nearly two dozen
workers had to strip and go through a decontamination process.
 
--On Dec. 18, a U.S. Bankruptcy Court in the Woodland Hills area was
targeted and about 90 people underwent antibiotic treatment.
 
--On Dec. 21, a telephoned threat emptied two Van Nuys courthouses and
forced about 1,500 people into quarantine for several hours.
 
--On Wednesday, the Chatsworth office of Time Warner Cable was
evacuated after a threat. About 200 people had to leave their work
stations.
 
--On Thursday, Christmas Eve, a Mervyn's store in Palm Desert was the
target of a hoax, and 200 people had to disrobe and were rinsed with a
bleach solution.
 
Anthrax hoaxes also have happened in Colorado, Kentucky, and
Tennessee.

-- 
Eric Michael Cordian 0+
O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division
"Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Paul Sutton 
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 04:45:52 +0800
To: jim finder 
Subject: Re: [ssl-users] Re: Sammers    eers Theft  of Ben lauriesIntellectual
In-Reply-To: <19981225051204.19697.qmail@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



A highly amusing ranting. I'm glad the poster chose to remain anonymous:
they would surely be ashamed to attach their name to such a poorly written
and grossly inaccurate message.

Anonymous writes:
>C2 gots its start by purloining without compensation
>Ben Lauries Apache-SSL patches.... Sameer used these and then

I think one of the greatest acheivements of open source projects in the
last few years has been the acceptance of licensed in the BSD style. These
allow for commercial use of the open source projects with minimal
advertising clauses. This has lead to the acceptance of open source
software as a valid model to create software that both benefits the
community through free availability _and_ generals commercial spinoffs
which themselves lead to a greater acceptance of the underlying free code.

If a particular contributor to a BSD style project has a problem with this
then they are free (in all senses) to start a project using a more
restrictive license, such as the GPL.

>From this comment (and others) it looks like the poster has a
philosophical objection to commercial software. That is fine, and I'm sure
that the poster will have a lot of fun attacking other software vendors.

>had the fucking gall to remove source from apache-ssl

At the time, Verisign would not issue certificates for code available in
source form (this is also why certificates from Verisign were not
available for Apache-SSL). They now issue certificates for programs which
are available in source form (subject to some restrictions, of course).

>for the mod_ssl.c... all was rosy until Ralf releases
>a mod_ssl.c of his design... result??
>C2's business worlwide took a nose dive...(layoffs etc)

I'm not sure that you understand the relationship between the development
of Stronghold, the availablility of mod_ssl, and the employee losses in
the Oakland (US) office. You should also remember that Stronghold is
developed entirely outside the US in the UK office which has been
consistently increasing it size over the same period: it is quite
appropriate for an international cryptography company to arrange its
staffing such that it is not affected by the US export restrictions.

mod_ssl really hasn't been around long enough to have a serious affect on
Stronghold sales. It is also very simplistic to assume that the
availability of the free Apache SSL implementation would cause the
majority of Stronghold customers to switch over: if that were the case,
surely they would now be using Apache-SSL and would not have waited until
mod_ssl was available? There is plenty of room for both free and
commercial SSL servers.

>so now Sameer is trying to coopt Ralf's mod_ssl.c project
>(mark my words if Sameer gets his way the source for future
>verions will NOT be available no matter what he says now...)

This does not make sense. mod_ssl is an independent project: whether or
not Stronghold includes mod_ssl as source or binary would have no effect
on the continuation of the mod_ssl project (in the same way that it makes
no difference to Apache if Stronghold comes with Apache source, or to php
if it comes with PHP source).  things, so it

>I seen it happen once so now when the litte sob trys it
>again I am blowing the whistle...(and retelling history openly)

If you had any validity I don't think you would post anonymously, and you
would explain why your arguments should make sense, since to me they are
highly simplistic and rather lacking in truth.

Paul
--
Paul Sutton, C2Net Europe                    http://www.eu.c2.net/~paul/
Editor, Apache Week .. the latest Apache news http://www.apacheweek.com/




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 03:28:00 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: People With Honor
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 17:55:59 GMT
To: "DaveNet World" 
From: dave@scripting.com (DaveNet email)
Subject: People With Honor
Sender: 

-------------------------------------
>From Scripting News... It's DaveNet!
Released on 12/28/98; 9:55:55 AM PST
-------------------------------------

  Seasons Greetings DaveNet readers!

  I've been keeping up on the issues of impeachment, reading
  newspapers and websites, and considering ideas that have not been
  showing up in these places. I've also been talking with people and
  listening, and I think people in the US are overlooking something
  that we may not be able to ignore much longer.

  First, there is definitely a serious split in this country. Some
  people blame the Republicans for what happened, I've even heard
  people say they're so angry with the Republicans that they'll never
  vote Republican again. To them, I want to say, save some of your rage
  for Clinton. Understand that there are two sides here.

  Clinton screwed up, the Republicans responded, and Clinton did
  more, and on and on. How far has it gone? That's what I want to think
  about now, logically, precisely, and not emotionally or
  expressively. And I want to consider other points of view,
  especially those from outside the US.

  If we're ever going to work together again, there will have to be give
  on both sides, sooner or later. We'll have to see ourselves as one
  country, responsible for what we do, no matter what party you belong
  to or support.

  ***A tough question

  I was going to bag this piece, it's not worth the trouble, I said to
  myself, until I saw CBS's 60 Minutes last night, and listened to Andy
  Rooney talk about how far it's gone. He asked the same question I'm
  going to ask here.

  ***What happened in Iraq?

  The question: Was the US bombing of Iraq an attempt by Clinton to stay
  in power? This question has to be asked, although I do it with
  trepidation, imagining that some of my fellow Americans will accuse
  me of treason, or not pulling behind our leader in a time of crisis.

  But as I sort thru this, I want to know, where is the crisis? Does Iraq
  threaten us? If so, how? Oil prices are now lower than they have ever
  been, as if oil prices were an honorable reason to bomb another
  country. How would we feel if Iraq had bombed US cities? How would we
  feel if Iraq found a way to retaliate now that we have bombed their
  cities? Could we blame them if they did?

  Did Israel ask us to bomb Iraq? Clearly if Iraq attacks Israel, that's
  a problem for Israel, and we're an ally and protector of Israel. Did
  Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Jordan or Egypt ask us? How come they're
  staying silent on this? Or are they not silent and we're not hearing
  about it?

  If timing was a big issue, as Clinton says it was, why choose to bomb
  Iraq just as the House was convening to decide impeachment? Are we to
  believe that the decision was made without considering
  impeachment?

  At some point in the deliberation, someone must have said "But Mr.
  President, couldn't this backfire on us? Couldn't it look as if we're
  doing this to bolster your Presidency?" It's the first question that
  pops into a thinking mind.

  The question has barely been raised on TV or in the newspapers or on the
  web. Why? This is supposed to be an open country. I can't believe that
  anyone who's really thinking about this hasn't asked themselves
  this question. It's on my mind, I can tell you that for sure.

  ***Carole King?

  These are very strange times.

  This came home in a new way when I saw a TV clip of Carole King
  entertaining the troops on a US warship. What was she doing there? Did
  I miss something? Is this the Bizarro World? Next is it going to be Bob
  Dylan, Jesse Jackson, Tom Hanks, Robin Williams and Whoopi
  Goldberg?

  What am I missing? What are we supporting? If you had a debate with a
  thoughtful person from outside the US, what would you say about how
  our military is being used? Justly, fairly, wisely, respectfully,
  honorably? And is it really still just about sex? Can Clinton blame
  the Republicans for this? Where will the buck stop this time?

  The appearance of dishonorable militarism is enough to cause some
  people to draw their own conclusions. If it walks like a duck, quacks
  like a duck..

  ***Did you know?

  I'm reminded of those who said they knew that Clinton was lying when he
  said he never had sexual relations with that woman. I wonder if
  they're listening carefully to his words now. Are they really this
  gullible? How will you feel if it escalates, and you or your children
  are asked to fight a war in Iraq? What will you be fighting for?

  This is very bad for the US. We are being irresponsible. We let a
  dishonored president bomb foreign countries and we look the other
  way. I keep watching the Op-Ed pages for a clue to this, but they are
  silent. I wonder why?

  ***A failure to communicate

  Over the weekend I watched a great movie, Cool Hand Luke, starring
  Paul Newman. He's a tragic Christ-like figure, making it an
  appropriate movie to watch during the big Christian holiday.

  He says and does things the other inmates wish they had the courage to
  say and do. The warden breaks his spirit, but it returns before the
  movie ends. Cornered, resigned to dying, he repeats, with a twinkle
  in his eye, what the warden said in an earlier scene. "What we have here
  is a failure to communicate." Then the jailkeeper shoots him. As they
  carry away his dying body I wonder whether it was worth it.

  In the end the prisoners are still in prison, but they have the memory
  of his courage to warm them. Luke is gone, the truth is gone, but at
  least they had a glimpse of what it's like to be alive.

  ***People with honor

  Compared with perjury and obstruction of justice, it matters more to
  me that the President looked into the camera, with induced outrage,
  and denied doing something that he later admitted doing. It was his
  outrage that did it for me. He's an emotional manipulator on a mass
  scale. Looking at the film of the Cabinet officers saying they
  believed him, I wondered "How could they?"

  If this country ever had courage, now is the time for it to surface.
  Don't wait for a hero, no one person can do it. We all have to decide if
  honor counts. Or at least a good portion of the electorate has to get
  there.

  The Democrats point to Clinton's historic 70 percent approval
  rating, and they're right to do so. We preach the value of democracy,
  but are we hypocrites, do we get any benefit from democracy in our own
  country? The man lies. Even his supporters acknowledge that. We
  accept that, but what's the limit? How far will we go? Consider that
  seriously, as you try to understand the news, as you try to understand
  the country you live in and how it relates to other countries.

  If Clinton stays, do we have a system based on lies? None of us know how
  deep it goes. We may be fighting a war as a by-product of this, a real
  war, with battleships and bombs. Don't blame anyone but yourself.
  You could have stopped it and you still can, it's not too late, yet.

  Dave Winer

-------------------------------------------
Scripting News: 

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: VR6R@aol.com
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 06:32:35 +0800
Subject: Click-N-Go! USA WHOLESALE DIRECTORY DISK
Message-ID: <63f54761.3687d3d2@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Sunder 
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 03:28:08 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Utne: Y2K Citizen's Action Guide
Message-ID: <3687D6BE.3D07B6BE@brainlink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




http://www.utne.com/y2k/

This month's Utne Reader came with an attached 4.25"x8.5" booklet.  An e-copy
of the said booklet is available from their site.

Its contents, much like the magazine, contains articles snipped and or
adapted from elsewhere.  Unfortunately the thread throughout the whole thing
is "those who go in the woods with automatic rifles are the bad selfish
guys."

IMHO, helping your family and 'hood is a great thing.  Being labeled a kook
if you are selfish and have no instinct other than self preservation isn't
such a great thing.

This sort of thought will only lead to a further erosion of freedom and a
fall towards communism as more and more people will feel pressured into
"sharing" their property and resources with the commune rather than
hoarding.  By all means, make everyone aware of the problems and help them
cope if that's what you want to do, just don't force others to do the same at
gunpoint.  :)

It does have some redeeming qualities though if you ignore the political
sharing slant.  The articles they've included (save for the "Public Citizen"
section) are good planning guides.


-- 
----------------------------  Kaos Keraunos Kybernetos  -------------------
 + ^ +        Sunder          "The   real aim  of current policy is to /|\
  \|/    sunder@sunder.net    ensure the continued effectiveness of   /\|/\
<--*--> ALLOW FREE EXPORT OF  US information warfare assets against   \/|\/
  /|\   STRONG CRYPTOGRAPHY!  individuals,businesses and governments   \|/
 + v +  PROTEST WASSENAAR!!!  in Europe and elsewhere"  -- Ross Anderson
------------------------------ http://www.sunder.net ----------------------

RESTRICTED DATA - This material contains RESTRICTED DATA as defined in
the Atomic Energy Act of 1954. Unauthorized disclosure subject to 
administrative and criminal sanctions.  NOFORN ORCON WNINTEL SIOP-ESI CNWDI




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 00:48:53 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Mail2news@anon.lcs.mit.edu Not Propagating to Compuserve/Sprynet
Message-ID: <199812281554.QAA18888@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On 28 Dec 1998, Anonymous wrote:

>Has anyone else experienced posts sent via the anon.lcs.mit.edu
>mail2news gateway not propagating to Compuserve/Sprynet's news
>servers?  I've made a couple of posts, both anonymously and
>non-anonymously via that gateway, and they haven't been showing up
>at CIS/Sprynet.  Yet they've been archived on Dejanews and replies
>to them from users on other servers have shown up.
>
>Is this a propagation problem, or are Compuserve and Sprynet
>blocking posts from that gateway?

Hey! Stop abusing the anonymous remailers! Your identity isn't findable! It
defeats the whole purpose of Anon!

Fleaza!




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Eric Cordian 
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 10:53:55 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Kha0s Linux Distribution
Message-ID: <199812290233.UAA28178@wire.insync.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>From the webpage at Kha0s.org:
 
> Expect the first beta release of kha0S to include Matt
> Blaze's CFS. It has been around for a while and has had
> the benefit of review by the cryptographic community.
 
A good start, I guess.  

-- 
Eric Michael Cordian 0+
O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division
"Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 11:08:46 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: G8 MIB
Message-ID: <199812290247.VAA07707@smtp0.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>From a DoJ press release 15 December 1998:

High-tech crime

  The G8 countries have established a 24 hour network of 
law enforcement experts capable of responding swiftly to 
requests for help with investigations that cross international 
borders, including hacking cases. The network, which is 
now in use, is open to wider membership and a number of 
non G8 countries have already joined. The Lyon Group is 
pursuing consultations with industry, including internet 
service providers, on preventing criminal use of networks 
and ensuring traceability of their communications. It is also 
developing proposals for a legal framework for retrieving 
electronic evidence swiftly in cases that cut across 
international borders.

More:


http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pr/1998/December/588ag.htm








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 11:17:10 +0800
To: Multiple recipients of list 
Subject: Re: G8 MIB
Message-ID: <199812290207.VAA002.99@whgiii>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



In <199812290247.VAA07707@smtp0.mindspring.com>, on 12/28/98 
   at 09:48 PM, John Young  said:


>High-tech crime

>  The G8 countries have established a 24 hour network of 
>law enforcement experts capable of responding swiftly to 
>requests for help with investigations that cross international  borders,
>including hacking cases. The network, which is 
>now in use, is open to wider membership and a number of 
>non G8 countries have already joined. The Lyon Group is 
>pursuing consultations with industry, including internet 
>service providers, on preventing criminal use of networks 
>and ensuring traceability of their communications. It is also  developing
>proposals for a legal framework for retrieving 
>electronic evidence swiftly in cases that cut across 
>international borders.

>More:


>http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pr/1998/December/588ag.htm


Encrypt everything, trust no one.

-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
---------------------------------------------------------------






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Stewart, William C (Bill), BNSVC" 
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 11:50:58 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Anti-Crypto CongressCritters - FWD: And you thought it was Larry Flynt . . .
Message-ID: <25683280FF49D2119B480000C0AD59009DCAAE@mo3980po13.ems.att.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Sigh.  Plus ca change
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Farber [mailto:farber@cis.upenn.edu] 
Sent: Monday, December 28, 1998 1:20 PM
To: ip-sub-1@majordomo.pobox.com
Subject: IP: And you thought it was Larry Flynt . . .

From: sbaker@steptoe.com

Dave,

I am sending you part of a note we sent to our clients a week or two ago.  I

haven't seen it in the press yet, but after it shows up in IP, the NY Times 
will be more or less irrelevant.

Stewart

From:   Stewart Baker (sbaker@steptoe.com)
    Elizabeth Banker (ebanker@steptoe.com)

The press would have you believe that it was Larry Flynt and his 
million-dollar 
tales of infidelity that caused the unexpected change in House leadership
this 
month, but encryption policy buffs -- paranoid by nature and proud of it -- 
are beginning to focus on another suspect, one with more to gain.  

That's because it is the Federal Bureau of Investigation that looks like the

biggest winner now that Robert Livingston has been replaced by Dennis
Hastert as
odds-on favorite to be Speaker of the House of Representatives.
     
Livingston supported the industry's version of SAFE, the crypto decontrol
bill 
that died in Congress last session.  In contrast, J. Dennis Hastert (R-IL)
has 
shown strong solidarity with the FBI on encryption issues as a member of the

House Commerce Committee.  Indeed, Hastert supported the Oxley-Manton
Amendment 
that would have turned the SAFE Act of 1997 (H. R. 695) into a mandate for 
domestic regulation of encryption.  And when Oxley-Manton was rejected by
the 
Committee in favor of the Markey-White Amendment, Hastert voted against the 
SAFE Act.

..  




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Stewart, William C (Bill), BNSVC" 
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 12:04:27 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: FW: More (and last) on And you thought it was Larry Flynt . . .
Message-ID: <25683280FF49D2119B480000C0AD59009DCAB1@mo3980po13.ems.att.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



More on the same topic

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Farber [mailto:farber@cis.upenn.edu] 
Sent: Monday, December 28, 1998 3:51 PM
To: ip-sub-1@majordomo.pobox.com
Subject: IP: More (and last) on And you thought it was Larry Flynt . . .


Date: 28 Dec 1998 15:30:58 -0800
X-Sent: 28 Dec 1998 23:30:58 GMT
To: farber@cis.upenn.edu
From: "Joseph C.Pistritto" 

On Mon, 28 December 1998, Dave FarberSENT OUT

As attractive as this might be as a conspiracy theory, Flint pretty much
admitted he had the goods in this case (and claims to have similar stuff on
something like 7 or 8 other Republicans and 1 democrat).  He's investing
quite
a lot of his own funds in this particular little enterprise of his.

He's apparently quite pissed off that this one leaked before he was able to
use the content himself.  (after all, as a publisher, the reason you develop
content is to use it in print yourself primarily).  

A more interesting question is how the White House found out about the
material
a few days before it came out.  (which apparently is how Roll Call which ran
the story first got ahold of it).  There have been persistent rumors of a
White House controlled black operation to uh, bring pressure upon, certain
people that are in positions to embarrass the President.  Apparently at
least
some of this sort of activity has gone on for a long time, perhaps since the
President was in Arkansas.  

Whether the FBI would be involved in *that* is an interesting question.  
Somehow
I doubt it, because the risk of public exposure in that situation would be
enormous, and there was already an FBI-related scandal early in this
administration.  Also the Administrator over there is regarded as somewhat
of
a loose cannon by the folks in the White House.  So I kind of suspect the
FBI
would not be involved in White House led black ops.  And I doubt the
military
would be involved either (given this President's relations with them.)  So
the
reports of private detectives and other non-government people spearheading
this
squares with what would be rationally expected.

I think the FBI may merely have either just gotten lucky and dodged a bullet
on this one, -or- they had a deeper cover role in passing the stuff to
Flint's
people (undoubtably private individuals, so evidence, if it existed in FBI
files, could've been fed to someone on the "outside").  Given that no one
knew
that Livingston was going to be in the position he was in till several days
*after* the election, that's reasonably quick response if that is really
what
happened.

Don't believe everything you read in the papers...
  Cheers,
    -jcp-


--
Joseph C. Pistritto                        +1 415 706 7270
Belmont, California                        jcp@jcphome.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Blanc" 
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 15:33:36 +0800
To: 
Subject: RE: More (and last) on And you thought it was Larry Flynt . . .
In-Reply-To: <25683280FF49D2119B480000C0AD59009DCAB1@mo3980po13.ems.att.com>
Message-ID: <000301be32f9$bf3f6140$418195cf@blanc>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



This has to be the decade of Sex, so many public figures have been brought down,
one way or another, by it (funny thing I heard on the news from Russia -  that
if they were to discover that Yelsin had had an affair with a young woman, at
least they would know that he was still alive).

Perhaps the effects of all this under-the-covers publicity could convince some
VIPs of the imperative need for un-adulteratedH^H^H^H^Hextremely strong crypto
in theirH^H^H^H^H^ "all our" lives.  At least for some types of communication;
they still haven't figured out how to keep their paramours from telling everyone
about their adventures in wonderland.

I wonder if Stewart Baker was sending out that memo with glee?
And why did he send it to Dave Farber?

   ..
Blanc




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 16:37:29 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: [FP] FDIC receives more than 6,000 comments
Message-ID: <199812290802.AAA28199@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: "ScanThisNews" 
Subject: [FP] FDIC receives more than 6,000 comments
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 13:53:27 -0600
To: "ScanThisNews Recipients List" 

======================================================================
SCAN THIS NEWS
12/23/98
-----------------------------------------

WorldNetDaily
WEDNESDAY
DECEMBER 23
1998

 BIG BROTHER BANKING
Record response
to 'Know Your Customer'
FDIC receives more than 6,000 comments

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_exnews/19981223_xex_record_respo.shtml

By Gabrielle Stevenson
(c) 1998 WorldNetDaily.com

The process for reading comments on the Federal Deposit Insurance
Corporation's "Know Your Customer" proposal has already started because of
the increasing number of responses. At last count, the FDIC had received
6,019 responses to the plan.
The most comments received in the past was 3,498, regarding a 1984 broker
deposit regulation.

"Usually we don't get nearly as many," said the FDIC's David Barr.
"Sometimes we only get a 100 or so, and they can be read relatively quickly
for internal use."

Normally the FDIC doesn't read the responses until the comment period has
ended. This time, however, they are trying to get a head start.

"We are trying to see what people are saying," Barr said. "We have gone
through them at least once so far. We do keep them all in consideration.
That is what this whole process is all about."

The FDIC Know Your Customer plan proposes that all banks, credit unions, and
other financial organizations be required to maintain continuous
surveillance of customer's accounts, and report unusual financial activity
to the FBI and other agencies.

[snip] see WorldNetDaily link above for balance of article.

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 16:33:56 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: [FP] National "Know Your Banker" Campaign Kick-off
Message-ID: <199812290802.AAA28213@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: "ScanThisNews" 
Subject: [FP] National "Know Your Banker" Campaign Kick-off
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 19:12:22 -0600
To: "ScanThisNews Recipients List" 

======================================================================
SCAN THIS NEWS
12/23/98

National "Know Your Banker" Campaign Kick-off

Following are two combined SCAN notices regarding the "Know Your Customer"
banking proposals, and our own SCAN-proposed "National Know Your Banker"
campaign:

1ST NOTICE: NATIONAL DIRECT DEPOSIT WEEK
The nation's banks are planning to gradually convert everyone over to
electronic banking. A series of campaigns have been planned with the
objective of getting people to sign up for debit-cards, smart-cards, and
direct deposit banking. (Direct Deposit means that you sign an agreement
with your employer to have you paycheck directly deposited into your bank
account electronically.) Total electronic banking will result in a windfall
profit for the banking industry as a whole.

In furtherance of their goal, the week of January 25-29, 1999 has been
designated as "National Direct Deposit Week." That week, banks across the
country will participate in a campaign to condition people to acceptance
electronic "Direct Deposit" banking. According to one promotional piece,
"the Direct Deposit marketing campaign will target employers; financial
institutions; government officials; as well as community, professional, and
civic groups." During the promotional period, banks will offer incentives
for consumers to sign up for Direct Deposit; radio promotions will be aired
in local markets; and financial institutions and corporations will be
encouraged to create similar activities with their customers and/or
employees.

So far public acceptance of electronic banking has been somewhat lackluster.
However, at the upper levels of the world's banking community, the decision
has been made to convert to total electronic banking linked to a global
financial network. The upcoming Direct Deposit campaign is just one small
example of the overall plan. Here's a link for additional information:

Promoting Direct Deposit -- The Public Education Campaign
http://www.ezpay.org/campaign.html


2ND NOTICE: NATIONAL KNOW YOUR BANKER WEEK
SCAN would like to propose that the week of January 25-29, 1999 be declared
National "Know Your Banker Week" to run concurrently with the banking
industry's Direct Deposit campaign. During that week, we encourage EVERYONE
to make a concerted effort to learn as much as you possibly can about your
nation's banking system.

Learn how check clearinghouses are already monitoring every checking
transaction, and how profiling is already being done in that industry. Learn
how credit card companies also currently monitor each purchase and "flag"
suspicious or out-of-character activity.

Find out how money is "created" (according to the Federal Reserve) at your
local bank whenever a loan is "granted." Learn how every single "dollar" is
loaned into circulation - at interest - which means that, at all times, more
money is owed (principle + interest) than has been "created" or loaned out
into the economy. Hence, we as a nation can NEVER again be "solvent;" we
will be perpetually in debt to the bankers; we can never "pay back" more
than has been circulated.
(For explanation, see http://home.hiwaay.net/~becraft/CARDS.html )

Learn about "fractional reserve banking," which by definition means that
only a "fraction" of the public's money can be withdrawn from the system at
any given time without inducing a banking collapse. Learn how bankers use
this "fraction" to "create" more "credit money" which they then "loan" to
you under demand for some real property collateral.

Learn how your money has been gradually debased: silver coins which used to
be made of "precious metal" have been surreptitiously converted to a
substrate of worthless composites sandwiched between two thin layers of
slightly less-worthless "silver colored" nickel to make them resemble the
genuine silver coins. In circulation, they all look the same. But the latter
versions are "worth" about 90% less than the former. Even the lowly penny
has been stuffed with totally valueless zinc leaving only a thin shell of co
pper a few thousandths of an inch thick on the outer surface to fool the
public. Seems to have worked well. Who stole the "precious" material and
substituted the cheap slag? Who profited from the change (pun intended)? Was
your banker a willing participant?

Learn how gold and silver "certificates" which were once redeemable for
warehoused gold and silver coin were substituted with worthless, un-backed
"Federal Reserve Notes" that cannot be redeemed but look exactly like the
redeemable certificates - save for the absence of any "promise to pay." Who
was manning the warehouses when this substitution took place? Your banker
perhaps?

Based on what you learn from the foregoing exercise, decide whether or not
the banking institution's "Know Your Customer" program is being instituted
with YOUR best interest in mind.

Use this "Know Your Banker" campaign to ask your banker to sign a simple
affidavit certifying that your funds WILL ALL BE AVAILABLE for withdrawal
"on demand" come January 1, 2000.

Take the opportunity of the National Know Your Banker Week to learn about
all that your banker has done and is planning to do (for you) as you are
converted to total electronic banking over the next few years. (Remember,
the federal government has already converted to total electronic
transactions, and it can be fairly anticipated that soon all employers will
be compelled to make employee payrolls using direct deposit so that payroll
tax payments can be collected electronically.)

Most importantly, take the opportunity of the "National Know Your Banker
Week" to file a comment with any or all of the four agencies that have
submitted "Know Your Customer" proposals.

After the upcoming holiday period, we will provide all the necessary contact
information along with a selection of sample "letters of objection" so that
everyone can easily take part in this campaign. We will also provide
material which will reveal that, in reality, under our current system of
"fiat money," ALL banking activity IS "money laundering" engaged in BY THE
BANKERS. Looking forward to your participation.

Happy holidays,

Scott
---------------------------------------------------------
Complete detailed information on all four of the proposed Know Your Customer
regulations can be found at:
http://www.networkusa.org/fingerprint.shtml

See these important links to learn more about how money is created.
http://home.hiwaay.net/~becraft/MONEYbrief.html

http://home.hiwaay.net/~becraft/FRENEAUbanking.html

http://home.hiwaay.net/~becraft/FSanders.htm

Franklin Sanders - "The Money Changer"
http://www.the-moneychanger.com/
---------------------------------------------------------
Promoting Direct Deposit -- The Public Education Campaign
[From the pages of the New York Clearing House Association]
http://www.ezpay.org/campaign.html


Campaign Goal: The goal of our campaign is to increase Direct Deposit use
among consumers by 5 percent each year for the next five years.

Campaign Activities: The Direct Deposit marketing campaign will reach
employers, financial institutions, government officials and community,
professional and civic groups. In addition, January 25-29, 1999 has been
declared "Direct Deposit Week" -- an opportunity to spur excitement through
incentives for consumers to sign up for Direct Deposit. Radio promotions
will take place in local markets, and financial institutions and
corporations are encouraged to create similar activities with their
customers and/or employees.

Campaign Success

  Over the past two years, Direct Deposit enrollment has
  increased by over 540,000 employees.

Outreach to Employers: Top 1,000+ Employers (Fall 1998)

  Direct mailing to solicit interest among Payroll Managers
  throughout New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, Puerto Rico
  and the U.S. Virgin Islands

  Kick-off luncheons in September/October 1998 -- New York
  City, Long Island, Rochester, and New Jersey

  Catalog of promotional materials, offered at cost, for
  interested employers

  A Guide to Increasing Direct Deposit Participation [link]

  A Guide to Implementing Direct Deposit [link]

Outreach to Financial Institutions (Fall 1998)

  Catalog of promotional materials, offered at cost, for
  banks' use with retail customers

  "How to Guide" for promoting Direct Deposit to retail
  customers

  Media announcement to banking trade publications, general
  business media

Grassroots Outreach (Fall 1998)

Mailing of information and materials to community, labor unions,
professional associations, women's/men's groups, minority associations,
fraternal groups and civic groups.

Promotional Events and Media Relations (Winter 1999)

  Direct Deposit Week (January 25-29, 1999)

  Radio Promotion -- Call-in contest to answer "What is the
  most impulsive thing you've ever spent your paycheck on?"
  Winners to receive equivalent of one week's pay via Direct
  Deposit (up to $1,000).

  Media Relations -- Outreach to print and broadcast news
  media, both general interest (daily newspapers, local radio
  and television) and trade (payroll publications, banking
  trades); release of research survey results.

  Branch/Company Activities -- Financial institutions and
  company activities, incentives and events to celebrate Direct
  Deposit Week e.g. free/discounted services, giveaways of
  promotional items, free concert tickets or other prizes for
  100th customer to sign-up, contest/quiz with week's pay as
  prize.

We welcome your thoughts, ideas and recommendations on making the Direct
Deposit Campaign a success. Please direct any questions or comments to
Rossana Czelusniak or Kathy Loy at (212) 613-0166.

--------------------------------------------------
http://www.nyclearinghouse.org/Welcome.html

=======================================================================
Don't believe anything you read on the Net unless:
1) you can confirm it with another source, and/or
2) it is consistent with what you already know to be true.
=======================================================================
Reply to: 
=======================================================================
 To subscribe to the free Scan This News newsletter, send a message to
      and type "subscribe scan" in the BODY.
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                www.networkusa.org/fingerprint.shtml
=======================================================================




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 16:48:29 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: [FP] FW: GE - Icelandic DNA database
Message-ID: <199812290802.AAA28224@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: "ScanThisNews" 
Subject: [FP] FW: GE - Icelandic DNA database
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 20:00:29 -0600
To: "ScanThisNews Recipients List" 

======================================================================
SCAN THIS NEWS
12/28/98

[Forwarded by request]

  -----Original Message-----

From: Wolf [mailto:Fenris@reality8.demon.co.uk]
Subject: GE - Icelandic DNA database

This is from the genetics mail list. Can you help to circulate as they
are asking for foreign intervention in the form of an e-mail campaign?
I suspect that once governments can point to one country that has this
sort of database in place it will be used as an example of what the rest
of us should be aiming at...ycchhhh!!!

  ------- Forwarded message follows -------

From: genetics  (by way of genetics
)
Subject: GE - Icelandic DNA database

From: Herbert Mehrtens 

>HELP PREVENT A BIOTECHNOLOGICAL DISASTER!!!!!
>
>The controversial health database bill has been passed in
>the Icelandic parliament. It was approved by a vote of
>37 in favor, 20 saying no, and 6 MPs absent. Before the
>bill becomes a law it must be signed by the President of
>Iceland, Mr. Olafur Ragnar Grimsson.
>
>Several wide-ranging changes were made to the bill in
>the last few days. Personal protection was decreased by
>stating specifically that the licensee use unencrypted
>health data. Even more blatant is the new provision in
>the bill that the database contain genetic information.
>Formerly it was to contain only health information from
>hospital charts and doctors records.
>
>For those who have been following the discussion,
>it will be of interest to know that the bill is in
>fact now a new bill--a result of the collusion between
>the Ministry of Health, the government and deCODE
>--and the database has now become the Icelandic DNA
>-collection bill or the pharmacogenetic wonderland
>bill instead of a health database bill (see also letter by
>Bogi Andersen to the editor, Science, Dec. 11, 1998,
>p. 1993).
>
>If there was any doubt as to whether an individual will be
>personally identifiable, now it is certain that every
>person can be traced, either individually or through
>pedigrees, by using genetic tracers or DNA sequences,
>in the near future. The consequences of including
>genetic information are momentous. Therefore:
>
>1. The database bill should not be made a law nor
>should it be implemented, because of ethical, privacy,
>consumer and human rights concerns.
>
>2. If there is to be a health/genetic database in spite of
>these concerns, informed consent and independent
>ethical review committees are minimum requirements.
>
>The Icelandic Research Council which supported the bill
>has abruptly withdrawn its support following an emergency
>meeting on Dec. 14 because of the inclusion of genetic data
>in the proposed database and infraction of free scientific
>research.
>
>Likewise, the former President of Iceland, Mrs. Vigdis
>Finnbogadottir, who sat on the Board of deCODE has
>resigned due to conflict with her role as President of
>UNESCO's World Commission on Scientific Knowledge
>and Technology.
>
>For further details please refer to the website of Mannvernd,
>the Icelandic Association for Ethics in Science and Medicine,
>for news update in English. Also consult a graphical presentation
>of the views of over 50 agencies and experts which submitted
>highly critical opinions to the Health Committee of Althing as
>the 2nd version of the bill was debated this fall; to no avail
>as these opinions were callously ignored by the government
>majority on the Health Committee:
>
>http://www.simnet.is/mannvernd/english/articles/03.12.1998_summary_of_op
inio
>ns.html
>
>Also see the associations' English language home page:
>
>http://www.simnet.is/ma
nnvernd/english/index.html
>
>deCODE's representatives have unsuccessfully
>tried to rebuke our information in the internet news
>discussion groups. Thanks to DENDRITE's David Oaks
>and others this has been answered in an informed and
>decisive manner.
>
>deCODE's statement that personal information will be
>anonymous is false. Anonymous means that names and ID's
>have been eliminated. The database will include ID's
>that, although encrypted, can be used to trace individuals,
>as explained by encryption expert Ross Andersons' report:
>
>http://www.cl.cam.ac.
uk/~rja14/iceland/iceland.html
>
>Most experts consider the database information personally
>identifiable, which means that informed consent should be
>sought, according to international ethical standards. These
>concerns become magnified once genetic data is included.
>
>An ethical committee was introduced in the latest version of
>the bill. Yet it is not specified who shall sit on the committee
>and it is strongly suspected that the Minister of Health will
>appoint the licensees' representative on the committee. Moreover,
>that provision speaks volume for the fact that the government
>does not want to recognize the irreducible bond between consent
>(informed or otherwise) and ethics committees. By passing the
>law the government violates sound principles of scientific ethics
>and human rights.
>
>Also, parliamentary majority spokesmen have dicussed the
>possibility of including prescription information from
>drug stores in the database! This is not specified in the bill
>but could be in later revisions, according to newspapers
>supporting the government. This would be similar to turning
>a gold mine into a diamond mine.
>
>The Icelandic database bill has been considered by numerous
>foreign experts (see opinions on Mannvernd's website) and
>is considered in the Economist (Dec. 5-12, 1998) and New Scientist
>(Dec. 5th, 1998) to set a precedent of how medical and genetic
>databases in other countries could be constructed and misused in
>the future.
>
>This biotechnological disaster in the making is of international
>concern and importance. We consider ourselves being on the
>outpost of this battle for users' rights in new genetic research
>and important biotechnology developments and we need all
>the support we can get.
>
>We are grateful for any help we can get. Although the bill
>was passed by the parliament on Dec. 17, it needs to be signed
>by the President, whereafter much work needs to be done, regulations
>written, agreements made with the licensee etc.
>
>Foreign intervention at this moment may have a crucial
>effect upon future course of events.
>
>Please write letters of concern/protest to
>
>Prime Minister Mr. David Oddsson,
>Stjornarradshusinu
>Laekjatorg
>Reykjavik
>Iceland
>
>E-mail: postur@for.stjr.is
>Fax: 00354+562 4014
>
>and
>
>Minister of Health Ms. Ingibjorg Palmadottir
>Arnarhvoli
>Reykjavik
>Iceland
>
>E-mail: postur@htr.stjr.is
>Fax: 00354+551 9165
>
>
>with a copy to Mannvernd,
>
>yours sincerely,
>
>Petur Hauksson, chairman
>Icelandic Mental Health Alliance (Gedhjalp)
>Tryggvagotu 9
>101 Reykjavik
>Iceland
>
>peturh@itn.is
>gedhjalp@isholf.is

  ----------------(-x?)nS(r7A)------------------

Fenris Wolf

http://members.xoom.com/Astraea/CAPACS.htm
http://members.xoom.com/Astraea/RSPCAhelp.htm
http://www.marketersworld.com/members/Fenris/

=======================================================================
Don't believe anything you read on the Net unless:
1) you can confirm it with another source, and/or
2) it is consistent with what you already know to be true.
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 16:41:06 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: SNET: Biometric National ID Card Being issued NOW and used to track people
Message-ID: <199812290802.AAA28235@netcom13.netcom.com>
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From: USCMike1@aol.com
Subject: SNET: Biometric National ID Card Being issued NOW and used to track people
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 15:03:04 EST
To: KatieSouix@aol.com


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Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 17:14:16 -0600
To: Kepi 
From: Kepi 
Subject: [FP] Biometric National ID Card Now A Reality
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This is an important post that I feel needs circulating.  Should this be a
a duplicate for some of my listees, please disregard.  Kepi <><
-------------------------------------------------------------

>From: "ScanThisNews" 
>To: "ScanThisNews Recipients List" 
>Subject: [FP] Biometric National ID Card Now A Reality
>Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 19:13:18 -0600
>X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
>X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0
>X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4
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>Sender: owner-scan@efga.org
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>X-SCAN: http://www.networkusa.org/fingerprint.shtml
>
>======================================================================
>SCAN THIS NEWS
>12/13/98
>
>[forwarded from Larry Becraft]
>THE BIOMETRIC NATIONAL ID CARD IS NOW A REALITY...
>By Jon Christian Ryter
>Author of WHATEVER HAPPENED TO AMERICA?
>and THE BAFFLED CHRISTIAN'S HANDBOOK
>
>America was rightfully alarmed in late September when Representatives Bob
>Barr (R-GA) and Ron Paul (TX) revealed the fact that somehow, unbeknown to
>anyone, and for some as yet unexplained reason, the National ID Card that
>Hillary Clinton, Marc Tucker and Ira Magaziner had adroitly concealed in the
>failed Health Security Act of 1994 had somehow "accidentally" been passed,
>in a somewhat illegal and unconstitutional fashion, and was now "the law of
>the land."
>
>Pictured (see link below) is the actual "Healthcare Passport" card currently
>being used in three American cities. Displayed is the front and back of that
>card. This photo was scanned from the brochure used by the National
>Institute of Health to introduce the new card in a seminar in Denver earlier
>this year. The word "passport" on the card had to have been a
>tongue-in-cheek addition, since it is the precursor of the internal passport
>that will ultimately control your ability to move freely throughout this
>great land. The card is biometric. Stored on this card is the complete
>medical history of the card's owner. Also stored on the card is every
>conceivable piece of information about that person. Imbedded in the card is
>a tracking devise.
>
>The plan to create and implement a National ID Card, while first made
>"public" in a private White House meeting on Nov. 11, 1993 and discussed in
>a disavowed protocol that detailed the dialogue of that meeting, is not
>uniquely a Clintonoid idea even though the National ID Card first appears
>innocuously concealed in the Health Security Act as a "healthcare benefits
>card" that the First Lady insisted had to be carried by every American--even
>if they refused to be covered by the plan--under penalty of law.
>
>	The same card, in the form of a national driver's license, had just been
>mandated by the European Union for all of the new European States. A brief
>battle waged in Europe over the national driver's license. Most Europeans
>had experienced national identity cards in the past and realized quickly the
>new universal European driver's license was an internal passport that would
>give their new government the tool they needed to control their lives. The
>media immediately labeled those who resisted the EU driver's license as
>"globalphobes" who were against progress, and wanted to return Europe to the
>days of the cold war. They were the extremists.
>
>	In the United States, the Clinton's knew a National ID Card spelled
>problems,
>regardless what name was put on it. However, as a healthcare card that
>provided each American with thousands of dollars of free medical care, they
>correctly surmised that the ramblings of the right wing zealots could be
>easily dismissed by the mainstream liberal media. The media did its job
>well.
>
>The Health Security Act was the best thing since sliced bread and peanut
>butter. According to the media, the Health Security Act would provide
>healthcare for the millions upon millions of uninsured Americans. The media
>even obliged by ignoring the obviously flawed cost assessments as well.
>
>Hillary demanded that Congress pass the Health Security Act without and
>changes--reminiscent of FDR's passing the "emergency legislation" that
>kicked off the New Deal without allowing members of Congress to even see the
>legislation they were voting on--and unconstitutionally granting Roosevelt
>almost dictatorial power over the United States. Congress wasn't buying.
>They read the Health Security Act. Then, they rejected it. It was, they
>declared, the most expensive social experiment in the world.
>
>Buried in the National Archives, in the working papers of the Hillary
>Clinton healthcare plan, was a game plan in the event the Health Security
>Act went down in flaming defeat. The game plan?  Implement another
>healthcare act that provided healthcare for children.  No one would dare
>deny healthcare to children. To introduce the plan, they called on Teddy
>Kennedy. Kennedy failed. Kennedy, they realized, was trusted by most
>Americans even less than the Clintons.
>
>Next they turned to Orrin Hatch, who teamed up with Kennedy and rammed the
>legislation through Congress. Healthcare for kids. Of course, everyone was
>in favor of it. Voting against it was a good way to lose an election. And,
>once the law was codified, the bureaucracy possessed the authority to simply
>expand it to include anyone and everyone.
>
>What was not in the legislation was funding to create a biometric health
>care card. The authority to do it was there, but not the money. For the
>money, the Clinton administration turned to the Robert Wood Johnson
>Foundation. The foundation, created by the founder of Johnson & Johnson,
>obliged and funded the experimental program which was kicked off in three
>western cities (noted above).
>
>What was introduced to members of the National Institute of Health in Denver
>as a card that will record the inoculation records of children, includes
>everything from DNA typing to that individual's medical, psychiatric and
>financial history. It was because the biometric card would also contain the
>psychiatric history of the cardholder that an employee of the National
>Institute of Health approached me and offered me the data that is contained
>in this report.
>
>In my initial meeting with the NIH employee, I was also told that this
>person had commented to a NIH executive that it was not good for the card to
>contain so much personal information that was not needed to monitor the
>rates of inoculation of the children covered by the program, since it would
>provide the government information that could easily be misused.
>
>At that point the NIH executive laughed and said: "What do you think we have
>do with the data we get from Medicare and Medicaid? We've been using it for
>years to apprehend and deport illegal aliens and to capture those wanted by
>the law."
>
>In the case of the Health Passport, which is the precursor of the National
>Driver's License that will go into affect nationwide on October 1, 2000,
>however, the is one added feature--it contains a tracking chip.
>
>At a recent National Institute of Health seminar, an NIH executive proudly
>displayed an electronic map created by the NIH computer technicians that
>pinpointed every Health Passport card holder in Denver, Colorado. It was a
>"living map" that would track each Health Passport card holder if and when
>they moved. Whether or not such a map had been created for the other two
>"pilot" cities is not known.
>
>NOTE: Before I left Washington this afternoon, I spoke for about a half hour
>with Stan Johnson of the Prophecy Club, and emailed Stan a copy of the Heath
>Passport Card. Stan has additional information on this subject, particularly
>with respect to a new computer mainframe that the government recently
>installed in Denver that ties in with the information I have been receiving
>from my own source in the National Institute of Health. Apparently this is
>the planned topic for the Prophecy Club's radio talk show next Monday (and
>because it is, I will not reveal any of the revelations that Stan shared
>with me on the phone this afternoon. I would strongly urge you to visit
>Stan's website for additional information.
>
>http://www.prophecyclub.com/
>
>---------------------------------------------
>http://www.westgov.org/hpp/hpp-web.htm
>
>HEALTH PASSPORT
>
>A Project of the Western Governors' Association
>- Frequently Asked Questions -
>
>Introduction to the Health Passport Project
>
>What is the Health Passport Project?
>
>The Health Passport Project is a three-city demonstration that uses what is
>called a "smart card" to put important health-related information at the
>fingertips of mothers and their children. People participating in the
>demonstration are those eligible for care under public health programs. The
>Health Passport Project is the largest health-care demonstration in the
>United States for smart cards and will be conducted over two years in the
>cities of Bismarck, North Dakota; Cheyenne, Wyoming; and Reno, Nevada. The
>project will demonstrate how people can use these electronic cards to give
>up-to-date information to their health-care providers, including physicians,
>nurses, nutritionists and early childhood educators.
>
>
>Food Retailers
>
>Grocers who handle thousands of checks for nutrition benefits will find the
>new system involves less paperwork, results in quicker check-out, and
>provides more timely reimbursement. The Health Passport works like a bank
>card at the check-out counter. Benefits are automatically downloaded to the
>client's card at the retailer. Distribution of WIC benefits will be
>demonstrated in Reno and Cheyenne.
>
>
>More About the Demonstrations
>Which public health programs are participating?
>
>---
>Bismarck, North Dakota
>
>The Family Doctors, Bismarck Burleigh Nursing, WIC, Head Start,
>Immunizations, Medicaid, the Optimal Pregnancy Outcome Program, and Maternal
>and Child Health
>
>Bertie Bishop
>(701) 255-3397
>
>---
>Cheyenne, Wyoming
>
>Cheyenne Children's Clinic, the University of Wyoming Family Practice
>Residency Center, Laramie County Public Health Nursing, Medicaid, WIC, Head
>Start, Maternal and Child Health, and Immunizations
>
>Terry Williams
>(307) 777-6008
>
>---
>Reno, Nevada
>
>WIC, Immunizations, and Head Start
>Marty Brown
>(702) 883-6992
>-------------------------------------------------
>
>http://www.westgov.org/hpp/
>
>http://www.westgov.org/wga/publicat/hppsum.htm
>
>Health Passport
>
>Information Technology: Toward a Health Card for the West
>
>"Congress is considering the most sweeping changes to the delivery of social
>services since the New Deal. In this environment, the Health Passport
>presents an innovative tool to help ensure the continued delivery of
>critical services to low income women and children--even as government
>sponsored programs are consolidated or eliminated. While devolution of
>authority to the states is expected to reduce duplicative federal
>administrative structures, the debate in Washington has done little to
>provide practical solutions. The Health Passport offers a tool to help
>achieve these administrative savings empowering citizens and preserving the
>integrity of services."
>
>=======================================================================
>Don't believe anything you read on the Net unless:
>1) you can confirm it with another source, and/or
>2) it is consistent with what you already know to be true.
>=======================================================================
>Reply to: 
>=======================================================================
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>    Or, to be removed type "unsubscribe scan" in the message BODY.
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>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>             "Scan This News" is Sponsored by S.C.A.N.
>           Host of the "FIGHT THE FINGERPRINT!" web page:
>                www.networkusa.org/fingerprint.shtml
>=======================================================================
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 16:33:38 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: SNET: United Nations plans SWAT team training to "control" citizens in Y2K crash
Message-ID: <199812290802.AAA28246@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




From: USCMike1@aol.com
Subject: SNET: United Nations plans SWAT team training to "control" citizens in Y2K crash
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 15:34:16 EST
To: KatieSouix@aol.com


->  SNETNEWS  Mailing List

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To: Kepi 
From: Kepi 
Subject: Nations at UN conference suggest SWAT teams to handle Y2K
  crises
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Source: Star-Telegram.Com
http://www.star-telegram.com/news/doc/1047/1:COMP73/1:COMP73121298.html


Updated: Saturday, Dec. 12, 1998 at 17:58 CST 

Nations at UN conference suggest SWAT teams to handle Y2K crises

By Leslie J. Nicholson
Knight Ridder Newspapers

NEW YORK -- In a stark demonstration of the global scale of the Year 2000
computer problem, representatives of 130 nations gathered at the United
Nations Friday to hammer out plans for dealing with Y2K. 

The ideas included setting up national and international "SWAT teams" to
handle crises caused by the computer glitch.

The U.N. conference marked the first such gathering of Y2K coordinators
from several nations, including many developing countries that lag far
behind the United States in remediation efforts.

Y2K refers to a programming glitch that will cause some computers, softwar=
e
programs and microprocessors to interpret the abbreviated date 00 as 1900
rather than 2000. The result could be incorrect data processing and
equipment malfunctions.

"We all know that we are competing in a race against time," said Pakistani
ambassador Ahmad Kamal, who hosted the conference. "Despite all the effort=
s
and committed work of individuals and institutions, we are far from the
objective of ensuring Y2K compliance by the inflexible deadline of Dec. 31=
,
1999."

Fixing Y2K problems is a daunting task that involves rewriting computer
codes and potentially replacing billions of microchips.

U.N. Undersecretary-general Joseph E. Connor called Y2K the largest
computer project in the 50-year history of the information-technology
industry, but said predicting its effects accurately was impossible. He
said the global cost of fixing Y2K problems could reach as high as $600
billion with an additional $1.4 trillion going for litigation.

"There's no way to draw on past experience and predict what is going to
fail and what consequences these failures will have," Connor said. "All we
know for sure is the timing."

He said nations should attack Y2K on two fronts: by deciding which systems
are critical and fixing them first, and by developing contingency plans fo=
r
coping with computer failures.

"We have to get used to the fact that some systems and facilities will not
be addressed," Connor said.

Delegates spent most of the day in closed-door sessions to discuss Y2K
problems affecting specific industries and regions and released few detail=
s
of those meetings. One goal was to organize on a regional basis, including
implementing the SWAT-team idea. Kamal told reporters that such teams woul=
d
help nations deal with problems that cross borders, such as regional power
grid failures.

"You cannot stop at the political border of a country," he said.

Distributed by The Associated Press (AP) 

=A9 1998 Star-Telegram

###

=A9~=A9~=A9~=A9~=A9~=A9~=A9~=A9~=A9~=A9~=A9~=A9~=A9~=A9~=A9~=A9~=A9~=A9~=
=A9~=A9~=A9~=A9~=A9~=A9

**COPYRIGHT NOTICE** In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107,
any copyrighted work in this message is distributed under fair use without
profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receivin=
g
the included information for non-profit research and educational purposes
only.  [ Ref. http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ]

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: questions@daikihaku.dk
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 10:01:53 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: New Martial Arts Organisation
Message-ID: <199812290124.CAA08748@saturn.infoserv.dk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



This e-mail is to inform you, that we have started a non-profit
friendship association called Friends of the Fighting Spirit.
 
Through the years, we have established many contacts in
different countries. Now, together with all other interested
people worldwide, it 's possible through Dai Ki Haku to become
member of the non-profit friendship association Friends of
the Fighting Spirit
 
Our intention is to provide all forms of martial arts and combatants
with the opportunity of to derive knowledge from each other in various
ways, respective of different individual levels, religions and culture.
 
If you are accepted as a member, you will never have to pay anything
for you membership. Both individuals and clubs can become
members. 
By visiting the below web-site, you will be able to read some material
about Friends of the Fighting spirit.
 
http://ffs.daikihaku.dk/
 
The material includes information and replies to questions about why Friends
of the Fighting Spirit is quite special within Martial Art.
 
Please take the time to read the entire material so that we may have some
well-considered applications for membership.
 
On behalf of
Shihan Oerum
 
---
(Please note that this is not a commercial e-mail, this is a non-profit organisation.
Your have received this e-mail because of your interest in Martial Art, and you
will not receive any more e-mail's if you decide not to join the organisation.)
---




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 10:01:44 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: kha0S Linux
Message-ID: <199812290136.CAA06352@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




kha0S Linux is a new distribution currently in
development. The primary goal of this project is to
integrate and embed strong cryptography within a robust
Linux distribution. kha0S is currently seeking the
assistance of developers with strong backgrounds in
cryptography and source code security auditing. Please
visit the homepage for additional information. 

http://kha0s.org




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 11:12:40 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Anna Holmes, MarBLes, and the Married Lesbian Underground
Message-ID: <199812290246.DAA10919@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



In article <368690ea.96913979@news.mindspring.com>,
  equinox44@mindspring.com wrote:

> >The idea of using men as "a sperm bank with a checkbook" is really
> >insidious, but by the time many of the victims of this deception
> >find out they've been deceived and used, it's too late.  The above
> >URL, BTW, says that the list has a panel of six formerly married
> >lesbians for "support", which seems to be a euphemism for coaching.
> >Since marriage is a civil contract I wonder if such willful
> >"interference with the performance of a contract" has ever been
> >redressed in court.
> 
> One may not be able to go after the 'support group', but there is
> legal precedence in the US allowing a person to bring action against a
> spouse who marries them with fraudulent intent.    Even if that fraud
> is marrying someone they don't love after professing love.
> 
> OTOH, I imagine that one could include the 'support group' in any
> civil or legal action as co-conspirators.

I visited Anna Holmes'  (the moderator of the
Married but Lesbian [MarBLes] mailing list) website at
http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/fogbow/ and discovered that she's a
licensed shrink who lives in Birmingham, AL.  Thus, there may be
some "deep pockets" in the form of her malpractice insurance, as
well as the hosts of the mailing list itself, queernet.org.

I'm not sure what sort of other action is possible, but I'm sure if
Holmes were "supporting" the defrauding of African Americans rather
than married men, Jesse Jackson would figure out a way to bring some
pressure to bear against her and those aiding and abetting her
clandestine activities.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Chris Rowley 
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 17:32:56 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: PWL files
Message-ID: <199812290909.EAA22365@freenet3.carleton.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



I've been trying to figure out the method of encryption for OSR2 Win95 and
Win98 *.pwl files and I was hoping someone had some details about the
method used. I've been told that resources are encrypted using RC4 with
a MD5 hash of the password as the key, although I haven't had any luck
using this information to decrypt resources with a known password. 
Does anyone have it figured out?




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 19:05:00 +0800
To: Multiple recipients of list 
Subject: Re: New! Active Virtual Firewall
Message-ID: <199812290942.EAA158.53@whgiii>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

I thought this may be of interest (or at least a chuckel).

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The following message is forwarded to you by "William H. Geiger III"
 (listed as the From user of this message).  The
original sender (see the header, below) was jim kalember
 and has been set as the "Reply-To" field of this
message.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.networking.tcp-ip
>Subject: New! Active Virtual Firewall
>Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 22:36:56 -0800
>Organization: PAL
>Message-ID: <36887888.3A995E06@ix.netcom.com>
>NNTP-Posting-Host: whx-ca1-23.ix.netcom.com
>Mime-Version: 1.0


We have just completed technology validation demo for an "active virtual
firewall" that utilizes a new technique, software genetics, to secure
remotes and hosts. Technical details are available from
. The approach is virtually impervious to a text
hack and should be investigated by anyone serious about securing VPN to
Internet portals, or any private network. This is new technology--no data
is encrypted.

Technical details from our developers at .

--
Jim Kalember
VP Technical Staffing
Professional Access Limited

-----------------------------------------------------
 -- End of forwarded message
-----------------------------------------------------
-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
---------------------------------------------------------------

We have just completed technology validation demo for an "active virtual
firewall" that utilizes a new technique, software genetics, to secure
remotes and hosts. Technical details are available from .
The approach is virtually impervious to a text hack and should be investigated
by anyone serious about securing VPN to Internet portals, or any private
network. This is new technology--no data is encrypted.

Technical details from our developers at .

--
Jim Kalember
VP Technical Staffing
Professional Access Limited
 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Reeza! 
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 08:22:00 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Mail2news@anon.lcs.mit.edu Not Propagating to Compuserve/Sprynet
In-Reply-To: <199812281554.QAA18888@replay.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981229094117.00981d30@205.83.192.13>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 04:54 PM 12/28/98 +0100, Anonymous wrote:
>On 28 Dec 1998, Anonymous wrote:
>
>>Has anyone else experienced posts sent via the anon.lcs.mit.edu
>>mail2news gateway not propagating to Compuserve/Sprynet's news
>>servers?  I've made a couple of posts, both anonymously and
>>non-anonymously via that gateway, and they haven't been showing up
>>at CIS/Sprynet.  Yet they've been archived on Dejanews and replies
>>to them from users on other servers have shown up.
>>
>>Is this a propagation problem, or are Compuserve and Sprynet
>>blocking posts from that gateway?
>
>Hey! Stop abusing the anonymous remailers! Your identity isn't findable! It
>defeats the whole purpose of Anon!
>
>Fleaza!

Eh? 

This wasn't me. Fuck off.

Reeza!
============================================================================
DH Key available upon request.


The affairs of Men rarely rely on the dictates of logic, or even common sense.


	"Yeah, they mostly rely on something below the belt."

				-- my older sister




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mok-Kong Shen 
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 17:39:31 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: SNET: United Nations plans SWAT team training to "control" citizens in Y2K crash
In-Reply-To: <199812290802.AAA28246@netcom13.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <36889DC9.FF8245BE@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote:
> 
> From: USCMike1@aol.com


> 
> NEW YORK -- In a stark demonstration of the global scale of the Year 2000
> computer problem, representatives of 130 nations gathered at the United
> Nations Friday to hammer out plans for dealing with Y2K.
> 
> The ideas included setting up national and international "SWAT teams" to
> handle crises caused by the computer glitch.
> 
> The U.N. conference marked the first such gathering of Y2K coordinators
> from several nations, including many developing countries that lag far
> behind the United States in remediation efforts.
> 
> Y2K refers to a programming glitch that will cause some computers, softwar=
> e
> programs and microprocessors to interpret the abbreviated date 00 as 1900
> rather than 2000. The result could be incorrect data processing and
> equipment malfunctions.

Is is (approximately) known how many percent of the owners of computer
systems have ever tried with some test cases to find out whether
their hardware/software could be susceptible to the Y2K problem?
I guess such tests would deliver some confidence intervals of
whether the problem could actually arise at 2000.

M. K. Shen




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 01:14:45 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: FW: Repeal Compulsory-School Laws?
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


From: Carla Howell 
To: "General lpma (E-mail)" 
Subject: FW: Repeal Compulsory-School Laws?
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 10:45:41 -0500
Sender: owner-general@lpma.org



-----Original Message-----
From:	Jack Shimek [SMTP:jshimek@jaqboot.mv.com]
Sent:	Saturday, December 26, 1998 11:06 AM
To:	Jack Shimek
Subject:	Repeal Compulsory-School Laws?

Separation of School and State Alliance - New Hampshire
********************************************
The following article is brought to you courtesy of SepSchool-NH
If you wish to be removed from this mailing list, please reply with your
request to be removed.  Thank you.
********************************************


*****REPEAL COMPULSORY-SCHOOL LAWS? *****
Backers Say Learning And Innovation At Stake
Date:	12/2/98         Author: Aaron Steelman
	(c) Copyright 1998 Investors Business Daily, Inc.

Three years ago, state Rep. Russell George, a Republican, offered an
amendment to repeal the Colorado law that mandates school attendance for
children between ages 6 and 16.  George's reason: Disruptive kids who would
rather not be in school were causing problems for attentive students.  "I
posed a simple theory," George said. "If you want better education, then
you are better off having people in the system who want to learn. We
shouldn't be using schools as juvenile justice detention centers.  "That
forces learning at the lowest common denominator.  And until we figure that
out, we are not going to get a handle on why the public schools aren't
doing well," he said.
What's more, some critics of the attendance laws say repealing them could
lead to a flowering of innovative private schools.  Repeal also could free
the estimated 1.7 million children who are schooled at home from burdensome
regulations.  Such benefits, analysts say, could entice other states to
follow Colorado's lead and reconsider the wisdom of compulsory school
attendance.  Every state requires children to attend school until they earn
a high-school diploma or until they reach a certain age, typically 16 or
18.  Massachusetts passed the first compulsory-schooling law in 1852.  Most
states (and former territories) followed suit over the next several
decades.  George's amendment to repeal the compulsory-attendance laws died
in committee, but many parents and frustrated teachers supported the change.
The idea was particularly popular in rural western Colorado. But it had
supporters statewide, says Arthur Ellis, assistant commissioner of the
Colorado Department of Education.  "I wouldn't be surprised if we saw a
similar bill brought forward in the next session," Ellis said. If so, it
will have a powerful champion in George, who is the new speaker of the
Colorado House.
Colorado's education establishment is not keen on repealing the state's
century-old attendance laws, however.  By repealing its attendance laws,
the state would be "abandoning" its responsibility to kids, says Jeanne
Beyer, director of communications for the Colorado Education Association.
Democrat Michael Feeley, minority leader of the Colorado Senate, said: "We
would grow an underclass of uneducated, unemployable, illiterate kids who
would be sticking a gun in your ribs because that's the only thing they
would be capable of doing."
On the contrary, "It's actually the system that has abandoned the kids,"
said Sheldon Richman, senior fellow at the Future of Freedom Foundation.
"It sticks them in a custodial facility and lets them languish."
Richard Seder, education studies director at the Reason Public Policy
Institute in Los Angeles, said that compulsory attendance can contribute to
violence in the schools.  "A student who doesn't want to be at school and
is forced to be there will act out, (either) through intimidation of other
students or intimidation of teachers and administrators," Seder said.
It's not clear that repealing compulsory-attendance laws would actually put
kids on the streets, says E.G. West, an emeritus economics professor at
Carleton University in Ottawa, Ontario, and author of "Education and the
State." West studied compulsory-attendance laws in Britain and found that
education was widespread before schooling was mandatory and free.  "There
were upward trends in both literacy and school attendance" before
compulsory-schooling laws passed, West said.  In the mid-1800s, school
attendance rates were growing twice as fast as the population. By 1870, the
British literacy rate was more than 90%, and nearly all kids received some
formal schooling.  What's more, many youths benefited from apprenticeship
programs. "A lot of the firms that employed younger people provided them
with education on the job," West said.
If all that's true, why were the compulsory-attendance laws passed in the
first place?
"I think the primary reason was to eliminate competition in the labor
force," said Mary Novello, author of "For All the Wrong Reasons: The Story
Behind Government Schools." She says some of the support for mandatory
schooling came from labor organizers who thought young workers were taking
jobs from adults.
Marshall Fritz, director of the Fresno, Calif.-based Separation of School &
State Alliance, thinks that the attendance laws create an artificial
distinction between campus schooling and everyday, less-formal learning.
If the laws are repealed, he says, that distinction will be blurred, and
innovative schools will prosper. That's badly needed, Fritz says, because
most private schools now mirror the public schools in their approach. "I
think the government schools are teaching the kids to run a 17-minute
mile," he said. "The private schools are teaching them to run a 13- or
14-minute mile.  And they look great in comparison, because in the race of
the slow, someone has to be first."
Richman, the author of "Separating School and State," shares Fritz's
frustration about private schools' lack of creativity. But he's less
optimistic about alternative schools sprouting up.  For that to happen, he
says, it may be necessary to eliminate the taxes that fund public schools
as well as to repeal attendance laws.  "When Christopher Whittle set up the
Edison Project (a system of private, for-profit schools), he said he was
going to reinvent the school. But he ran up against the problem that a lot
of people who were already paying taxes for schools didn't also want to
spend money for tuition," Richman said.
However, repealing compulsory-attendance laws would instantly make life
easier for many home-schoolers, says Michael Farris, father of 10
home-schooled children and president of the Home School Legal Defense
Association in Purcellville, Va.  The laws not only say that kids must go
to school, but they also define what is and is not a school, Farris says.
Consider the case of Stephen and Lois Pustell of Lynn, Mass. They home
school their three school-aged children. They've been in a court battle
with their local school district since '91.  The school district says it
should be able to inspect the family's home to see how the kids are being
taught.  The Pustells object. "In our case, they were willing to waive all
the other requirements (for home-schoolers, including an annual review of
the curricula and the students' progress) except for the home visits," Mr.
Pustell said.
"Without the compulsory-attendance law, there would be no justification at
all for what they are trying to do."
Despite the Pustells' situation, Farris says home-schoolers are having
fewer problems now than in the past.  "There's no question that things have
moved in a more lenient direction in the last 15 years. If you were a
home-schooler in the early '80s, there was a high probability that you
would be prosecuted," Farris said.
In '96, Hawaii lowered its compulsory-attendance age to 16 from 18. Other
states have considered similar changes. Will Colorado go all the way and
repeal its attendance laws?
Ellis said that the Colorado Department of Education isn't "going to lead
the charge to repeal the laws, but we're not going to put any energy into
preserving them, either."
But you can count on teachers unions to put up a fight.  "Even though you
could probably find lots of frustrated teachers (who would like to see the
attendance laws repealed), organizationally we wouldn't support that," the
Colorado Education Association's Beyer said.

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 03:06:16 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: OpenBSD vs FreeBSD
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Resent-Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 11:43:47 -0500
To: 0xdeadbeef@substance.abuse.blackdown.org
Subject: OpenBSD vs FreeBSD
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 11:47:08 -0500
From: glen mccready 
Resent-From: 0xdeadbeef@substance.abuse.blackdown.org
Resent-Sender: 0xdeadbeef-request@substance.abuse.blackdown.org


Forwarded-by: Nev Dull 
Forwarded-by: Satya Palani 

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 20:44:53 -0500 (EST)
From: Robert Watson 
Subject: Re: OpenBSD vs FreeBSD


On 5 Dec 1998, Julian Assange wrote:

>> 	Do you really expect people here, on this list to say
>> 	"Use OpenBSD" or "Use Linux" or etc?
>
> `Use NetBSD'

Use a toaster oven.  Toaster ovens have excellent network security
characteristics.  For example, they are not susceptible to any IMAP-based
buffer overflow attacks; additionally, current toaster ovens are not known
to have any bugs in their TCP/IP stacks, nor have been vulnerable to any
in the recent past (according to CERT advisories, anyway).  Toaster ovens
require console access to perform administrative functions (such as
modification of temperature settings), but this will not impede deployment
in a number of environment.

Toaster ovens may be vulnerable to a remote denial of service attack
involving manipulation of power lines -- however, most operating systems
running on standard hardware are also vulnerable to this attack.

I have found that my toaster oven has served me well for a number of
years, and produces excellent grilled cheese sandwiches, which is far
better than my pentium running FreeBSD, largely because the cooling fan
on the pentium does too good a job.  Go figure.  Maybe if I get a pentium
pro?  Neither my FreeBSD box nor my toaster oven has suffered from a
security problem in a while.

  Robert N Watson

robert@fledge.watson.org              http://www.watson.org/~robert/
PGP key fingerprint: 03 01 DD 8E 15 67 48 73  25 6D 10 FC EC 68 C1 1C

Carnegie Mellon University            http://www.cmu.edu/
TIS Labs at Network Associates, Inc.  http://www.tis.com/
SafePort Network Services             http://www.safeport.com/

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 21:44:36 -0500 (EST)
From: Robert Watson 
Subject: Re: OpenBSD vs FreeBSD


On Sun, 6 Dec 1998, Robert Watson wrote:

> Use a toaster oven.  Toaster ovens have excellent network security
> characteristics.  For example, they are not susceptible to any IMAP-based
> buffer overflow attacks; additionally, current toaster ovens are not known

A friend of mine points out that toaster ovens are susceptible to a buffer
overflow involving pieces of bread exceeding the safe bread limit in the
oven, which can result in a fire, or at the very least, a lot of burnt
bread.  As such, I am no longer planning to deploy toaster ovens as web
servers on our network.

Apologies for any misleading details concerning the reliability of toaster
ovens in hostile environments -- I hope no one has made purchasing
decisions based on this misinformation!

  Robert N Watson

robert@fledge.watson.org              http://www.watson.org/~robert/
PGP key fingerprint: 03 01 DD 8E 15 67 48 73  25 6D 10 FC EC 68 C1 1C

Carnegie Mellon University            http://www.cmu.edu/
TIS Labs at Network Associates, Inc.  http://www.tis.com/
SafePort Network Services             http://www.safeport.com/

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Back 
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 02:32:37 +0800
To: bc192@freenet.carleton.ca
Subject: Re: PWL files
In-Reply-To: <199812290909.EAA22365@freenet3.carleton.ca>
Message-ID: <199812291333.NAA03382@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Chris Rowley  writes:
> I've been trying to figure out the method of encryption for OSR2 Win95 and
> Win98 *.pwl files and I was hoping someone had some details about the
> method used. [...] Does anyone have it figured out?

I think Peter Gutmann and someone else figured it out sometime ago.
Probably you could find the info on Peter's web page:

	http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/

or search the archives for "PWL" && "windows".

Adam




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Mark Lanett" 
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 08:53:18 +0800
To: 
Subject: Re: OpenBSD vs FreeBSD
Message-ID: <003901be337d$e533d320$010101c0@aboutbox.meer.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Use an etch-a-sketch. Etch-a-sketch displays are not vulnerable to
power-line denial-of-service attacks or fires. They *are* vulnerable to data
loss during earthquakes or if physical access is obtained, however most
operating systems running on standard hardware are also vulnerable to
attacks of this nature. They are not vulnerable to remote electronic
eavesdropping, as they emit no power signature, in fact no emissions of any
kind. I am not familiar with TEMPEST specifications, however, and can not
claim this level of security.

~mark

From: Robert Watson 


>Use a toaster oven.
[...]
>Toaster ovens may be vulnerable to a remote denial of service attack
>involving manipulation of power lines -- however, most operating systems
>running on standard hardware are also vulnerable to this attack.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 08:53:32 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: CLT&G Update: 29 Dec 98
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


From: "Chip Ford" 
To: "MassLP Reflector" ,
        "MassGOP Listserv" 
Subject: CLT&G Update: 29 Dec 98
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 14:31:11 -0500
Sender: owner-general@lpma.org



             Citizens for Limited Taxation & Government
                 PO Box 408 * Peabody, MA 01960
           Phone: (508) 384-0100 * E-Mail: cltg@cltg.org
               Visit our website at:  http://cltg.org
  ---------------------------------------------------------------

                      *** CLT&G Update ***
                   Tuesday, December 29, 1998


  The Boston Globe
  Monday, December 28, 1998

  The US suffered through turmoil in '98 -- 1798, that is
  By Jeff Jacoby, Globe Columnist, 12/28/98

     So shocking were the president's deeds, so extreme were his
  opponents, so furiously did partisan passions roil the public,
  that by the end of '98 some of the nation's most eminent
  leaders were questioning whether America's experiment with
  constitutional democracy was coming undone.

     No, not the Clinton scandals. The year was 1798. John Adams
  was in the White House and the United States was undergoing an
  agony of political turmoil. It was a bitter time, but it
  produced two of the most remarkable statements on liberty and
  limited government in our history - the Kentucky and Virginia
  Resolutions of 1798.

     Americans were sharply divided over a host of issues that
  year, none more so than US-French relations. The Federalists,
  who controlled the presidency and both houses of Congress,
  deeply mistrusted the French revolutionaries and refused to
  support them when France went to war with Britain. Republicans
  led by Thomas Jefferson were sympathetic to the French cause,
  which they identified with America's own revolt against royal
  abuse two decades earlier. The Jeffersonians denounced Adams
  and the Federalists as "monarchists" and "Tories" -
  denunciations echoed by a growing population of anti-British
  immigrants.

     Angered by Washington's neutrality, France began seizing
  American vessels. US diplomats in France were snubbed. A
  scandal erupted - the famous XYZ Affair - when agents of the
  French foreign minister, Talleyrand, demanded a bribe from
  President Adams's emissaries. Federalists were outraged; war
  fever swept the country. There were rumors that France was
  planning an invasion - and that Vice President Jefferson, whose
  Republican supporters were violently condemning the federal
  government, would join the invaders and overthrow the Adams
  administration.

     In this superheated atmosphere, Congress and the president
  enacted a package of grotesquely unconstitutional laws. The
  Alien Enemies Act empowered the president to jail or expel
  without trial any foreigner he deemed "dangerous to the peace."
  The Sedition Act prohibited all criticism of federal officials
  made "with intent to defame." Just seven years after the
  ratification of the First Amendment, editors, printers, and
  politicians were hauled into court and sent to prison for the
  crime of opposing the president.

     Jefferson and James Madison - who called the Sedition Act a
  "monster that must forever disgrace its parents" - resolved to
  strike back. Knowing that a Supreme Court fight would lose (the
  bench was dominated by Federalists), they decided to attack
  through the state legislatures.

     Working with allies in Kentucky and Virginia, Jefferson and
  Madison arranged for each state's general assembly to adopt a
  statement protesting the new laws. Jefferson drafted the
  Kentucky resolution, which was passed on Nov. 16, 1798. Madison
  wrote the Virginia resolution, which was adopted on Christmas
  Eve.

     "Resolved," the Kentucky Legislature declared in its opening
  paragraph, "that whensoever the General Government assumes
  undelegated powers, its acts are unauthoritative, void, and of
  no force." Supreme authority in America, it argued, was held
  not by the federal government but by the people and the states,
  and Congress and the president had only those powers clearly
  delegated to them by the Constitution. The Alien and Sedition
  Acts were intolerable above all because the federal government
  had no right to enact them. In the 20th century, the 10th
  Amendment has been largely ignored, but in the Kentucky
  Resolution, Jefferson quoted it repeatedly:

     "It is true as a general principle, and is also expressly
  declared by one of the amendments to the Constitution, that
  'the powers not delegated to the United States by the
  Constitution, nor prohibited to it by the States, are reserved
  to the States respectively, or to the people."' Nothing in the
  Constitution gave federal officials any right to interfere with
  freedom of speech or the press, or to exercise any jurisdiction
  over aliens. "Therefore, the act of Congress passed on the 14th
  day of July, 1798 ... is not law, but is altogether void, and
  of no effect."

     The Virginia Resolution was also blunt. Congress and the
  president, Madison wrote, have only the powers "enumerated in
  that compact [the Constitution]; and that in case of a
  deliberate, palpable, and dangerous exercise of other powers
  not granted by the said compact, the states ... have the right
  and are duty bound to interpose for arresting the progress of
  the evil."

     These resolutions weren't empty theory. They were a forceful
  defense of freedom, and a reminder that when governments are
  allowed to infringe the liberty of A, it is only a matter of
  time before they move on to B's.

     "The friendless alien has indeed been selected as the safest
  subject of a first experiment," declared the Kentucky
  resolution, "but the citizen will soon follow - or rather has
  already followed, for already has a Sedition Act marked him as
  its prey."

     Jefferson and Madison were fearful, as more Americans should
  be today, of allowing power to be concentrated in the central
  government. They won the battle: Americans came to hate the
  Alien and Sedition Acts, and the Federalists were thrown out in
  the election of 1800. But did they win the war? In our day, the
  federal government has grown monstrous, strangling Americans'
  freedom through endless regulations, restrictions, and taxes.
  The bicentennial of the Kentucky and Virginia Resolutions
  reminds us how much we have lost - and points the way to win it
  back.

  Jeff Jacoby is a Globe columnist. You can write Jeff at
  Jacoby@globe.com.


  * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
  NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this
  material is distributed without profit or payment to those who
  have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information
  for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more
  information go to:
          http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
  * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
      "The Only Alternative to Limited Taxation and Government
                is Unlimited Taxation and Government"

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "X" 
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 08:36:16 +0800
Subject: cookie sniffers?
In-Reply-To: <36894498.7418B40@netcomuk.co.uk>
Message-ID: <002901be3376$30aaa5c0$03000004@ibm>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



While you register for a hotmail acct., do they sniff around to see who you
really are?

Or is it anon?

X




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: jeradonah@juno.com (jeradonah lives)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 04:49:11 +0800
To: bill.stewart@pobox.com
Subject: Re: distribution scheme
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19981228010513.008cc410@idiom.com>
Message-ID: <19981229.150928.4551.1.jeradonah@juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




On Mon, 28 Dec 1998 01:05:13 -0800 Bill Stewart 
writes:
>Falcon, aka FitugMix, wrote about a suggestion to chop crypto or other 
>contraband material into separate streams, e.g. bit 1 of each byte in 
>stream 1, etc., hoping that this would be "legal" because it's not
really 
>encryption, though if managed carefully it would still be hard to read.

this concept is virtually identical to fractal encryption, where a
message is chopped into its component parts (25 a's, 3 b's, 8 c's, and so
on) and also chopped into a configuration scheme.  this form of
encryption does fall under the definition of munitions by the u.s.
government...

ac








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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mok-Kong Shen 
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 00:36:31 +0800
To: "Reeza!" 
Subject: Re: SNET: United Nations plans SWAT team training to "control" citizens in Y2K crash
In-Reply-To: <199812290802.AAA28246@netcom13.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <3688FB23.F6F3FA0D@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Reeza! wrote:
> 
> At 10:15 AM 12/29/98 +0100, Mok-Kong Shen wrote:
> --snip of magnanimous import--
> >
> >Is is (approximately) known how many percent of the owners of computer
> >systems have ever tried with some test cases to find out whether
> >their hardware/software could be susceptible to the Y2K problem?
> >I guess such tests would deliver some confidence intervals of
> >whether the problem could actually arise at 2000.
> >
> 
> What, you trying to downplay the tumult and ? that y2k will cause??? the
> fearmongerers will not be happy with you. They want everyone to be begging
> them for mercy, safety, deliverance from the y2k bug.
> 
> What? you say consumers should actually test their own shit? You forgot to
> mention the outside consultants who should be brought in at xyz dollars per
> hour. To think that Joel and Janice Consumer might actually be able to test
> their own equipment for y2k compliance.
> 
> y2k is coming, or else!!! (read, it will be manufactured if it does not
> eventualize itself).

In WHICH word I wrote I was downplaying???  I think you are up-playing!
Are you a consultant, desiring to earn money? If not, then try
to keep discussion to real matters of the problem.

M. K. Shen




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Pallas Anonymous Remailer 
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 09:56:05 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: STUDENTS WEB SITE COVERED BY THE RIGHT OF FREE SPEECH
Message-ID: <4fc6b9e3f0c97c1da3b0d3a1abcf1da9@anonymous>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



A federal judge has ruled against the school district of a Missouri high
school student suspended because he and his sister posted a personal Web
page using vulgar language to criticize the school's official Web site.
U.S. District Court Judge Rodney Sippel has issued a preliminary injunction
barring the school district from suspending the student, punishing him, or
restricting his ability to post his personal home page. Sippel's opinion
asserts:  "Dislike or being upset by the content of a student's speech is
not an acceptable justification for limiting student speech."  

(AP 28 Dec 98)





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mok-Kong Shen 
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 02:37:53 +0800
To: "Reeza!" 
Subject: Re: SNET: United Nations plans SWAT team training to "control" citizens in Y2K crash
In-Reply-To: <199812290802.AAA28246@netcom13.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <36891A04.3CAA067F@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Reeza! wrote:

> Sorry, yes I am up-playing, for the sake of humor. No, I'm not a
> consultant, Yes I desire to earn money, and the real problem (as I see it)
> isn't with the hardware or software, it is with what people will do.
> Regardless of anything relevant or irrelevant, what the sheeple think can
> happen, what they see happen, what really does happen and how some of them
> will over-react to it.
> 
> All the Gov't's making plans for martial law is an enormous alarm going off
> in my head,,,,

What I guess is very bad currently is that plenty of owners of the 
computer systems appear to be shy of facing squarely with the
problem and of conducting some direct tests to get at least some
real feeling of the problem that quite probably may occur. (It's
like one is not inclined to consult the doctors until the illness
becomes very grave. Certainly this is only my superficial observation. 
I may be very wrong.) Of course, such tests, if not well designed, 
may not deliver the hoped-for results. But having the courage to do 
some tests is anyway better than to avoid considering the problem 
till the day when Y2K really hurts. I am ignorant of how hard it 
is indeed to devise some realistic tests for Y2K. On the other hand, 
I can't imagine that these could be anything terribly difficult. 
If there are huge data bases involved, one could copy a part to a 
separate hardware and do experiments with it by entering data of 
Y2K and manipulating the system clock. If nothing happens, then 
one gains at least some assurance and can proceed to do more 
sophisticated tests. If something goes wrong, one knows directly 
what kind of misery one could expect to have at 2000 if the problem 
is ignored today and can thus energetically look for the remedy.
I speculate that most firms can start to do some tests with their
own staffs, i.e. without external consultants.

M. K. Shen




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 09:53:16 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: CLT&G Update: 29 Dec 98 (fwd)
Message-ID: <199812300141.TAA03820@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 14:57:08 -0500
> From: Robert Hettinga 
> Subject: CLT&G Update: 29 Dec 98

>      Jefferson and Madison were fearful, as more Americans should
>   be today, of allowing power to be concentrated in the central
>   government.

The entire point of a consitutional democracy is to avoid centralization.
A better way to word this is that we should be afraid of the federal
government becoming the central government.


    ____________________________________________________________________

          What raises the standard of living may well diminish the
          quality of life.

                                                 The Club of Rome

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Stu Green 
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 04:21:14 +0800
To: alg 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Stu Green 
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 04:33:46 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: THE REGISTER [I bin einer Noski, Tooski   -  Stu]
Message-ID: <36893454.1958EBC@realtime.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Stu Green 
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 04:44:16 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: Culture News from Wired News [news From The Chaos Communications Congress (Berlin)    -  Stu]
Message-ID: <36893921.6ACE44F8@realtime.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: whiterose@liveinfreedomor.die
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 09:40:02 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: QuickEmail, A Web-based E-mail message
Message-ID: <199812300118.UAA07523@sol00371.dn.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



SSA, IRS, VA A-OK FOR Y2K

President Clinton says that the U.S. Treasury Financial Management System
has completed testing by independent auditors and is now "certified as Y2K
(Year 2000) compliant."  The Y2K problem or "millennium bug" is found in
old programs that (because their authors used only two rather than four digits
to designate years) will make mistakes when doing calculations based on
dates.  The Social Security Administration has led the way in dealing with
the Y2K problem, which it first started working on in 1989.  


(San Jose Mercury News 29 Dec 98)












A service provided by TechAID Computer Services, http://www.techaid.net
The e-mail address of the sender MAY NOT BE AUTHENTIC.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 10:42:40 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Hoppe on Defense
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


From: "Mises Institute News" 
To: 
Subject: Hoppe on Defense
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 14:53:24 -0600
Sender: miseslist-owner@mises.org
Status: U

We are pleased to announce another paper in our Essays in Political
Economy series:

"The Private Production of Defense" by Hans-Hermann Hoppe (Professor of
Economics, University of Nevada, Las Vegas; Senior Fellow, the Ludwig von
Mises Institute).

>From the essay:

"Among the most popular and consequential beliefs of our age is the belief
in collective security. Nothing less significant than the legitimacy of the
modern state rests on this belief. And yet, the idea of a collective
security is a myth that provides no justification for the modern state.
Private-property owners, cooperation based on the division of labor, and
market competition can and should provide defense from aggression."

This powerful and radical essay can be purchased here

http://mises.org/product.asp?sku=p131

or by calling 334-844-2500.

The price is $4.00 postpaid (no postage charges will appear on your credit
card, regardless of what your shopping basket says).

* * * * *

A special 4-page, supplemental Austrian Economics Newsletter has been
published this quarter. It features an interview with Roberta Modugno of the
Center for the Methodology of the Social Sciences at the Libera Universita
Internazionale degli Studi Sociali in Rome, Italy. She discusses her new
book, Murray N. Rothbard e il libertarismo amerciano (Robbettino Ediotre,
Soveria Mannelli, 1998).

Students and faculty have been mailed a copy of this special AEN. If you are
not on the list to receive one, email susan@mises.org with your address.
Subscriptions to the AEN are $16 a year.

Something to look forward to for Spring 1999: An interview With Richard
Vedder (Ohio University)

* * * * *

The new Mises Review features David Gordon reviewing books by Allen Oakley
on Austrian economics; Francis Beckwith and Gregory Koukl on relativism;
Richard John Neuhaus et al. on judicial tyranny; Zbegniew Brzezinksi on
American foreign policy; Jim Sleeper on liberal racism; Michael Levin on
race; and Ronald Dworkin on affirmative action.

Individual copies are $5. Subscriptions are $16 per year. Back issues are
available on Mises.org.

Subscribe: http://mises.org/product.asp?sku=MR

* * * * *
As we approach the new year, we wish you a happy one, and hope you enjoy
Clifford F. Thies's article on millennial hysteria and its historic
connection with socialist ideology.

http://mises.org/fullstory.asp?FS=+%3Ch3%3EThe+Year+2000

In the next few days on Mises.org, we'll feature an article on the Euro and
coverage of the continuing debate between Robert Bork (taking the statist
position) and Michael Kinsley (taking the free-market position) on
Microsoft's future. It may seem like a strange turnabout, but even stranger
things have happened this month, in addition to the political turmoil in the
Belly of the Beast: the Mises Institute and the Village Voice agreed-that
the U.S. government should not be destroying people and property in Iraq.

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Calumn Shearer 
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 05:55:29 +0800
To: FGSlist@listbot.com
Subject: [Fwd: Seasons Greetings [Ref: 42057]]
Message-ID: <36894498.7418B40@netcomuk.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Taking confidentiality to an extreme.....
Apparently, micro$oft are giving out christmas wishes on a "need to know"
basis.


OEMNews  wrote:

> Dear  Calumn Shearer
>
> __________________________________________________________________
>
> The Microsoft System Builder team would like to wish you a very happy
> Christmas and a successful 1999.
>
> __________________________________________________________________
> >>  CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE <<
> The information contained in this email is proprietary and confidential,
> and
> is intended only for users of the Microsoft OEM Web site as
> "confidential
> information" under your Web Site Registration and License Agreement.
> If you (or your company) are not licensed to use the Web site, then any
> use, copying, and distribution of information contained in this message
> is
> strictly prohibited.
> If you received this message in error, please immediately notify us by
> sending email
> to msoemnet@microsoft.com.
> (c) 1998 Microsoft Corporation.  All rights reserved.
> Microsoft and Windows NT are either registered trademarks or trademarks
> of Microsoft Corporation
> in the United States and/or other countries.
> Microsoft OEM products are licensed to system builders by Microsoft
> Licensing, Inc., a wholly owned
> subsidiary of Microsoft Corporation.
> This email is provided for informational purposes only.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 11:21:22 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Fwd: trigger locks on public weapons
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 17:23:38 -0800
To: rah@shipwright.com
From: Vinnie Moscaritolo 
Subject: Fwd: trigger locks on public weapons

> Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 17:22:51 -0800
> To: staff@goal.org
> From: Vinnie Moscaritolo 
> Subject: trigger locks on public weapons
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> X-Attachments:
>
> congratulations on your move to force the MA legislators to eat their
> dogfood by placing trigger locks on the Besses in the state house.. I am
> an ex resident of the People's Democratik Socialist Commonwealth of
> Massachusetts and was recently visiting the Rude bridge in Concord,
> showing my wife the very place where America started.  I happened to
> visit the museum at the bridge and noticed that that there were three
> functional Brown Besses in display, and non of them were properly locked.
> I was appalled to see this, after all this is a place where many visitors
> come to see where freedom started, where the Colonists stood against the
> king who only wished to protect them by confiscating their guns.. and to
> find that the weapons displayed there were did not comply with the law of
> the day quite dismayed me.. but I thought that if I informed the folks at
> GOAL you might be able to contact the propler authorities and set things
> straight..
>
> good luck my brothers..


Vinnie Moscaritolo
http://www.vmeng.com/vinnie/
Fingerprint: 3F903472C3AF622D5D918D9BD8B100090B3EF042
-------------------------------------------------------

Those who hammer their swords into plows,
will plow for those who don't."

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Robert A. Costner" 
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 10:54:57 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: [EFGA] DragonCon.net Receives Subpoena for User Records
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19981229212943.041d9718@rboc.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 17:02:48 -0500
To: announce@efga.org
From: "Robert A. Costner" 
Subject: [EFGA] DragonCon.net Receives Subpoena for User Records
Sender: owner-announce@efga.org
Reply-To: owner-announce@efga.org
X-URL: http://www.efga.org

    DRAGONCON.NET RECEIVES SUBPOENA FOR USER RECORDS

This week DragonCon.net, a free email service, received a Subpoena
requesting information on one of its users including

    the true and correct legal name, IP addresses, E-mail addresses, 
    E-mail headers and postal address

The matter has been referred to attorneys to see if the Subpoena is valid
and should be complied with.  DragonCon.net places a high value on the
privacy of it's users and will not release user info based on a casual
request.

http://www.dragoncon.net is a privacy friendly email forwarding and
newsgroup posting service using technology developed by Electronic
Frontiers Georgia (EFGA) .  EFGA is known for it's
leadership in the worldwide anonymous remailer community, the Georgia
Cracker remailer , and as the original plaintiff in
the internet anonymity case ACLU vs. Miller.  DragonCon.net has been a way
to extend a form of privacy and anonymity to those who wish for some
anonymity in communications without the burden of encryption imposed by the
Cypherpunk remailer system.

Dragon*Con  is a science fiction and fantasy
convention held each year in Atlanta, Georgia.  DragonCon.net is a free
email service for members of Dragon*Con which also allows anyone else to
have an email account.  DragonCon.net, the email service, is operated
independently of Dragon*Con by a third party company.  Says Chairman Ed
Kramer of Dragon*Con, "Dragoncon.net is run by an independent company; we
have no control over their policies.  However, we certainly respect the
privacy of our members and support the pro-privacy polices of the internet
service towards their users.  We've been told that attorneys are reviewing
irregularities in the subpoena, and the internet service may be forced to
not honor it."

The matter is a civil action against a group of email-name defendants, none
of which appear to be the Dragoncon.net user.  Dragoncon.net is not a party
in the suit.  We do not yet know the nature of the civil action.  More
information will be announced in a few days.

For more information contact 

  Robert A. Costner
  pooh@efga.org
  770 402-3580

*
To join or be removed from this list, send a message to majordomo@efga.org
with
the message body of SUBSCRIBE announce or UNSUBSCRIBE announce




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ryan Lackey 
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 10:02:48 +0800
To: pecunia@venona.org
Subject: Re: "Hit 'em Where They Ain't": Deploying Digital Bearer Transactions
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <19981229213622.L344@arianrhod.@>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



[BTW, there's a new mailing list to discuss how technical implementation
details of DBS would [hypothetically] affect market dynamics, user
experience, etc. -- send mail to pecunia-request@venona.org if interest.
It's for stuff a bit too technical for dbs, and stuff too tenuously
connected to cryptography for a mailing list like cryptography or coderpunks.]


Quoting Todd Boyle (tboyle@rosehill.net):

> Much hot air has been expended on directions in which accounting systems
> will be re-architected for the internet. Meanwhile Quickbooks continues past
> 90% and up, in small and medium sized businesses.  It has got the user
> interface solved, among many other problems. There is no possibility anybody
> will take away the Quickbooks market in the next 3-5 years. I hate this.
> But it's reality.

> [suggestion: integrate electronic cash clients into Quickbooks]

The same argument could be made for integration with the successful
shopping cart systems (for retail purchasing), the successful web server
(apache, maybe netscape and ms iis if you are feeling charitable), the
popular internet client platform (netscape or maybe msie).

I believe in this theory to an extent.  Unfortunately, it seems easier to
develop a platform-independent client for a DBS system first in standalone
mode, then work on integrating into various existing applications.

* Development and testing tools for generic systems such as Java are generally
far superior to those for closed systems

* A development team experienced in the other details of a payment system
(cryptography, network protocols, security) is more likely to be familiar
with generic software development than with developing for a specific
application

* Debugging a standalone client is generally far easier than debugging a
plugin for an application which may itself have bugs.

* Disagreements as to which particular proprietary systems should be supported.
While Quickbooks, for instance, may control the business accounting market,
packages such as quicken are more entrenched for individual (and perhaps 
very small business), and very large corporations use different packages.
Which market segment, even for just accounting, should be the target?

* The risk that a proprietary vendor will change the interface on the
development team partway through development, or will go out of business,
or become less important in the marketplace -- this is more of an issue
the longer the product development cycle is.

* Substantial minorities who are very attached to particular tools, in
contrast to the majority of the target market -- witness the macintosh
minority.  This is because of the interface, legacy plugins, or whatever,
and basically needs to be taken as a given.

Looking at another popular crypto application which I believe had considered
this issue is PGP.  The core functionality of PGP, especially until
relatively recently, has been to send encrypted email messages.  A
fairly compelling number of users use a small number of mail programs
(Eudora, maybe Netscape Mail, maybe MS Exchange/Outlook).  However, PGP chose
to develop and continue developing a standaline application, leaving it
to third parties to integrate PGP with existing mail readers.

One logic would have said PGP should have created a standalone mail program,
subsuming whatever functionality a tool like Eudora offers.  There are a
few reasons this might be worthwhile -- easier integration for the user
by virtue of only having a single tool to use, both in configuration and
in daily use -- perhaps market reasons such as greater profits -- greater
brand identity -- assurances of secure behavior by the underlying levels
(since they're integrated into the applications).

However, there are many reasons subsuming the mailer functionality into
the security application doesn't make sense.  First of all, it was not
necessarily known that electronic mail would be such a compelling application
for PGP (well, actually it was).  Additionally, they rightly noted that people
would be reluctant to leave their existing mail programs (additionally,
the market was a bit more fractioned at the time).  There were the same
problems with integrating into multiple applications, and also I don't
think Phil Z. or the other early PGP developers had much experience
developing application-plug-ins for any of the major mail clients.

There are probably other factors involved here which I haven't addressed.

My take on the question of how to do clients is that one should first
develop functional standalone clients, with a well defined API, then
either find existing people doing plug-ins or third-party applications
and get them to do the integration work (keeping the code in the main
line of the application, if possible, to keep it compatible with the latest
releases of the product).  Additionally, in some cases there exist
wide-ranging standards which are easy to implement (such as the UNIX
standards for stdin/stdout and argument handling, or perhaps HTTP/HTML,
or maybe at some point XML or OFX) which should be implemented.  There
are also some applications which are so widespread that their own internal
interface standard, if well documented and relatively unchanging, is worth
writing to -- perhaps this is the case for browser plug-ins for Netscape
and MS IE, perhaps for MS Office add-ons, and maybe the case for Eudora.
However, in most of these cases, I'd be much happier writing a standalone
system first, getting most of the development process out of the way,
then doing a shorter development cycle to integrate the well-tested
codebase into a third-party application...this lowers the window of risk
for changes in the third party application as well as providing the above
advantages.

In the long run, though, I agree that integrating DBS into existing accounting
systems at least as well as current payment systems, and probably far
better, is of very high importance.  I wasn't aware quickbooks was that
popular, and will look at it soon...it sounds like it would be an interesting
package to work with.

Happy New Years,
Ryan
ryan@venona.com






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 11:35:38 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Triple DES "standard"?
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 19:11:37 -0500
To: jehill@nexis.org
From: Vin McLellan 
Subject: Re: Triple DES "standard"?
Cc: Rodney Thayer , Cryptography@C2.net
Sender: owner-coderpunks@toad.com

Rodney Thayer reported:

>> Curiously enough, there seem to be no references to a standard before
>> the X9.52 effort,  which appears to be only a year or two old.  NIST calls
>> Triple DES a "private" standard.

Josh Hill  responded variously:

>?

>Before things become standards, they are just good ideas.  Triple DES is
>widely used, despite the fact that there is no absolute standard.  The
>draft standard, itself, is actually quite straight forward... Nothing
>really interesting about it, aside from ANSI's blessing.

>NIST does the "we'll just refer to another standard and call it ours"
>thing a fair bit... Look at FIPS 186-1: The RSA signature scheme accepted
>is the one specified in ANSI X9.31.

	Actually, as I recall the tale, the Amercian Bankers
Association-sponsored ANSI-accredited X.9 Committee's blessing of DES3 was
itself pretty interesting.

	I understood that the NSA lobbied bitterly against the X9 effort to
standardize 3DES as an ANSI standard, insisting that DES would surfice
until its successor was chosen.

	A couple years ago, when the X9 committee -- or maybe one of the X9
crypto subcommittees -- rejected that advice and initially recommended that
3DES be made a standard, I was told that the NSA rep angrily declared that
3DES would _never_ get an export license and would never be shipped
overseas. (Which may have put a damper on the 3DES standardization
effort;-)

	Unfortunately, these standards development efforts usually escape
the media's attention. Anyone on the list active in X9 and can give us the
real story?

	Since the birth of X9 in the late 70s, the US National Security
Agency has its own representative on the X9 Committee.  As one might
expect, the NSA has traditionally had significant influence over the ANSI
"F" (crypto) subcommittees and cryptographic standards in financial
services. There was a time when Ft. Meade effectively dictated those
standards. Now, that is not necessarily so....

	(After the NSA blundered so badly in trying to force the Banking
industry to switch from DES to CCEP/Clipper in the late 80s, the Agency's
mesmerizing control broken. The initial intro of CCEP/Clipper -- at an ABA
meeting -- proposed that only US owned institutions could have access to
Clipper.  At the time, as I recall, maybe 10-15 percent of the US banks
were foreign owned;-) The bankers couldn't believe that these idiots --
obviously so ignorant about the workings of the industry they were trying
to defacto regulate -- were from the NSA of Legend and Lore.)

	I always felt that the NSA's alienation of the Bankers was probably
the single most important factor in the collapse of the government's Cipper
campaign.

	Suerte,
		_Vin



-----
      Vin McLellan + The Privacy Guild + 
  53 Nichols St., Chelsea, MA 02150 USA <617> 884-5548
                         -- <@><@> --

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Death46760@aol.com
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 12:54:49 +0800
Subject: !! Wanted Home Product Assemblers !!
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



*****This is a one time Mailing.  You will not receive mail from us
again.*****

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Reeza! 
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 21:19:05 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Kha0s Linux Distribution
In-Reply-To: <199812290233.UAA28178@wire.insync.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981229225348.0098d340@205.83.192.13>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 08:33 PM 12/28/98 -0600, Eric Cordian wrote:
>>From the webpage at Kha0s.org:
> 
>> Expect the first beta release of kha0S to include Matt
>> Blaze's CFS. It has been around for a while and has had
>> the benefit of review by the cryptographic community.
> 
>A good start, I guess.  
>

A better start would be a URL for download,,,, 
having no applicable background I can only wonder what I might be able to
contribute to the effort,,,

Reeza!
============================================================================
DH Key available upon request.


The affairs of Men rarely rely on the dictates of logic, or even common sense.


	"Yeah, they mostly rely on something below the belt."

				-- my older sister




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Reeza! 
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 21:50:49 +0800
To: Mok-Kong Shen 
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981229232715.0088dd30@205.83.192.13>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 10:15 AM 12/29/98 +0100, Mok-Kong Shen wrote:
--snip of magnanimous import--
>
>Is is (approximately) known how many percent of the owners of computer
>systems have ever tried with some test cases to find out whether
>their hardware/software could be susceptible to the Y2K problem?
>I guess such tests would deliver some confidence intervals of
>whether the problem could actually arise at 2000.
>

What, you trying to downplay the tumult and ? that y2k will cause??? the
fearmongerers will not be happy with you. They want everyone to be begging
them for mercy, safety, deliverance from the y2k bug. 

What? you say consumers should actually test their own shit? You forgot to
mention the outside consultants who should be brought in at xyz dollars per
hour. To think that Joel and Janice Consumer might actually be able to test
their own equipment for y2k compliance. 

y2k is coming, or else!!! (read, it will be manufactured if it does not
eventualize itself).

Reeza! 
============================================================================
DH Key available upon request.


The affairs of Men rarely rely on the dictates of logic, or even common sense.


	"Yeah, they mostly rely on something below the belt."

				-- my older sister




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Chris Rowley 
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 12:52:08 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: PWL files
Message-ID: <199812300430.XAA12372@freenet3.carleton.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



> > I've been trying to figure out the method of encryption for OSR2 Win95 and
> > Win98 *.pwl files and I was hoping someone had some details about the
> > method used. [...] Does anyone have it figured out?
>
> I think Peter Gutmann and someone else figured it out sometime ago.

Peter Gutmann figured out the old system. In reaction the system was
changed by the OSR2 patch and in all further releases of Windows. What
exactly it was changed to is the question.

Chris.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Bill Stewart 
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 19:20:49 +0800
To: Ben Laurie 
Subject: Re: Wassenaar summary (and a funny new loophole)
In-Reply-To: <199812101815.TAA120782@public.uni-hamburg.de>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981230011725.00a4b940@idiom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Unfortunately, since Wassenaar is not the law, only an agreement
by bureaucrats to make laws or regulations sort of like it if
they can talk their pet legislatures into rubberstamping them,
this doesn't help.  

You can't take a bureaucrat to court and 
insist that she rescind a regulation that was stronger than the 
Minimum Daily Repression specified in the "Arrangement" -
you can only insist on whatever your nation's constitution (if any)
or fundamental rights document (if any) specifies, 
or perhaps go to the World Court or some European Union or 
European Community court and argue the case there.
But most of these rights documents say things like
"except for national security" and aren't very enforceable
even if they do plainly state that your rights are stronger than that.

>Ulf Möller wrote the following about mistakes in Wassenaar:
>> Since the definition differentiates algorithms by symmetry rather than by
>> their cryptographic properties, there is no restriction whatsoever on
>> asymmetric secret-key encryption algorithms. Those algorithms typically
>> are not based on factorization or discrete logarithms. That is, they are
>> no longer controlled by the Wassenaar arrangement.

At 07:06 PM 12/10/98 +0000, Ben Laurie wrote:
>Hmm - so if I defined a new crytpo algorithm, SED3, say, that looks likethis:
>SED3(k,x)=3DES(backwards(k),x)
>where backwards(k) is k with its bits written backwards, then the
>3DES/SED3(k1,k2) combination is exportable (where k1 is related to k2,
>of course, by k2=backwards(k1))?

I assume you mean 3DESDecrypt(backwards(k),x) ?  It still doesn't work,
because 3DESEncrypt is still symmetric with 3DESDecrypt,
and SED3Decrypt is still symmetric with 3DESEncrypt(backwards(k),x).
But you could still come up with something that meets the
letter of the non-law, just for the fun of tweaking them.

I think it's more realistic to go for the various
General Software Exemptions and Public Domain Exemptions,
and generally lobby legislatures to slow down on implementing Bad Things,
and let them see there's money to be made for their countries' 
local businesses by not cooperating.  

A potentially valuable change to go for would be to allow 
export between members of the Wassenaar, or the EC, or whatever.
After all, the whole purpose of the COCOM that Wassenaar grew out of
was to keep Commies from getting militarily valuable technology,
and now that there aren't any Commies (unless you count the Chinese or Cubans)
and they've let the Russians into Wassenaar, the whole thing's
prima facie stupid anyway.

				Thanks! 
					Bill
Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Reeza! 
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 01:05:44 +0800
To: Mok-Kong Shen 
Subject: Re: SNET: United Nations plans SWAT team training to "control" citizens in Y2K crash
In-Reply-To: <199812290802.AAA28246@netcom13.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981230023707.009913c0@205.83.192.13>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 04:54 PM 12/29/98 +0100, Mok-Kong Shen wrote:
>
>In WHICH word I wrote I was downplaying???  I think you are up-playing!
>Are you a consultant, desiring to earn money? If not, then try
>to keep discussion to real matters of the problem.
>

Sorry, yes I am up-playing, for the sake of humor. No, I'm not a
consultant, Yes I desire to earn money, and the real problem (as I see it)
isn't with the hardware or software, it is with what people will do.
Regardless of anything relevant or irrelevant, what the sheeple think can
happen, what they see happen, what really does happen and how some of them
will over-react to it. 

All the Gov't's making plans for martial law is an enormous alarm going off
in my head,,,,

Reeza!
============================================================================
The affairs of Men rarely rely on the dictates of logic, or even common sense.

	"Yeah, they mostly rely on something below the belt."

				-- my older sister

	"Shhhhh. You're flooding my inbox with crap. How about giving it 
	a rest for a bit? I know you're probably bored wherever you are, 
	but please."
				-- krys




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Steve Mynott 
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 17:07:51 +0800
To: X 
Subject: Re: cookie sniffers?
In-Reply-To: <36894498.7418B40@netcomuk.co.uk>
Message-ID: <19981230083901.A12430@tightrope.demon.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Tue, Dec 29, 1998 at 02:57:12PM -0700, X wrote:
> While you register for a hotmail acct., do they sniff around to see who you
> really are?

I don't know what you mean 

> Or is it anon?

well it gives the IP address you connect from in the header...

and my guess is that most anon proxies are banned (?)

-- 
1024/D9C69DF9 steve mynott steve@tightrope.demon.co.uk http://www.pineal.com/

    never put off until tomorrow what you can do the day after tomorrow.
                        -- mark twain




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tom Vogt 
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 16:21:07 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: SNET: United Nations plans SWAT team training to "control"  citizens in Y2K crash
In-Reply-To: <199812290802.AAA28246@netcom13.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <3689D9AF.E0F1ABCE@wlwonline.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Reeza! wrote:

> Sorry, yes I am up-playing, for the sake of humor. No, I'm not a
> consultant, Yes I desire to earn money, and the real problem (as I see it)
> isn't with the hardware or software, it is with what people will do.
> Regardless of anything relevant or irrelevant, what the sheeple think can
> happen, what they see happen, what really does happen and how some of them
> will over-react to it.


aside from the humor (which I agree on) you might be right. someone said
not too long ago that the real y2k problem is in the people's mind. test
yourself: born in the summer of '68, the 70s, sign with name and date:
28.12.98 . people THINK two numbers, which might be the real
reason so much software is written using two bytes.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Michael Motyka 
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 01:16:17 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: Re: CLT&G Update: 29 Dec 98
Message-ID: <368A5A98.B0E@lsil.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



>>      Jefferson and Madison were fearful, as more Americans should
>>   be today, of allowing power to be concentrated in the central
>>   government.
>
>The entire point of a consitutional democracy is to avoid >centralization.
>
>A better way to word this is that we should be afraid of the federal
>government becoming the central government.
>
The ENTIRE point?

ONE of the points was to define and limit the extents of centralization. 

There is no cure for the chronic tendency of people in power to try and
increase their scope. The repeated application of palliatives is the
only way to deal with that social disease.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 18:11:12 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: distribution scheme
Message-ID: <199812300946.KAA29026@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



forget my earlier mail saying I had uploaded to funet.fi - seems
I get "permission denied" from both there and csua.berkeley.edu
even in the incoming dirs.
am I missing something here? please tell me where I can upload.

Falcon




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 00:35:03 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Triple DES "standard"?
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Reply-To: 
From: "Rich Ankney" 
To: , "Digital Bearer Settlement List"
 ,
        "Robert Hettinga" 
Subject: Re: Triple DES "standard"?
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 09:40:38 -0500
Sender: 
List-Subscribe: 


> 	Actually, as I recall the tale, the Amercian Bankers
> Association-sponsored ANSI-accredited X.9 Committee's blessing of DES3
was
> itself pretty interesting.
>
> 	I understood that the NSA lobbied bitterly against the X9 effort to
> standardize 3DES as an ANSI standard, insisting that DES would surfice
> until its successor was chosen.
>
> 	A couple years ago, when the X9 committee -- or maybe one of the X9
> crypto subcommittees -- rejected that advice and initially recommended
that
> 3DES be made a standard, I was told that the NSA rep angrily declared
that
> 3DES would _never_ get an export license and would never be shipped
> overseas. (Which may have put a damper on the 3DES standardization
> effort;-)
>
> 	Unfortunately, these standards development efforts usually escape
> the media's attention. Anyone on the list active in X9 and can give us
the
> real story?
>

I was at the meeting.  This was a meeting of (I think) X9F3, which is a
working
group in X9F, which has several working groups doing security.  3DES was
being pushed really hard by the Fed.  The vote was to get a sense of how
much interest there was in a 3DES standard.  (There is no requirement to
have such a vote to work on something; the X9 rules require a new work item
ballot sent to all X9 members.) The NO votes were, IIRC, from NSA (with the
above quote, more or less), IRS, and IRE (a commercial outfit located in
Baltimore).  NIST abstained.  I don't recall the official X9 vote, but it
was along
the same lines.  The work was done in a different working group, X9F1,
chaired
by the legendary Blake Greenlee.  The standard was published a few months
ago.  Again, the Fed pushed really hard on this; kudos to them.

I'm sure Cindy Fuller of the X9 Secretariat (cfuller@aba.com) would have
the
official X9 ballot results if anyone is interested...

> 	Since the birth of X9 in the late 70s, the US National Security
> Agency has its own representative on the X9 Committee.  As one might
> expect, the NSA has traditionally had significant influence over the ANSI
> "F" (crypto) subcommittees and cryptographic standards in financial
> services. There was a time when Ft. Meade effectively dictated those
> standards. Now, that is not necessarily so....
>

> 	(After the NSA blundered so badly in trying to force the Banking
> industry to switch from DES to CCEP/Clipper in the late 80s, the Agency's
> mesmerizing control broken. The initial intro of CCEP/Clipper -- at an
ABA
> meeting -- proposed that only US owned institutions could have access to
> Clipper.  At the time, as I recall, maybe 10-15 percent of the US banks
> were foreign owned;-) The bankers couldn't believe that these idiots --
> obviously so ignorant about the workings of the industry they were trying
> to defacto regulate -- were from the NSA of Legend and Lore.)
>

I didn't start attending meetings till the early '90's, but I can certainly
testify that Clipper/Fortezza were pushed really hard.  In fact, X9F1 may
still have open work items on some of this stuff (no work going on, but
it needs a formal vote to remove it from the list).  My major objection was
the attempt to standardize on a particular *product*, which used classified
algorithms, vs. standardizing on a public algorithm which could be
implemented
in H/W or S/W.  So X9 ended up with:  3DES instead of Skipjack; DSA and
RSA (and ECDSA real soon now) for signatures; and DH, RSA, and EC (real
soon now) for key management.  It's interesting that our DH standard seems
to have reinvented much of the interesting stuff in KEA.


Regards,
Rich

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 01:17:39 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: CLT&G Update: 29 Dec 98 (fwd)
Message-ID: <199812301657.KAA05177@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 08:53:44 -0800
> From: Michael Motyka 
> Subject: Re: CLT&G Update: 29 Dec 98

> >The entire point of a consitutional democracy is to avoid >centralization.
> >
> >A better way to word this is that we should be afraid of the federal
> >government becoming the central government.
> >
> The ENTIRE point?

The ENTIRE point.

> ONE of the points was to define and limit the extents of centralization. 

No, the point of a democratic government is to eliminate centralization of
authority. To distribute and limit what each level can do from the top to
the bottem. Read the 9th and 10th again.

> There is no cure for the chronic tendency of people in power to try and
> increase their scope. The repeated application of palliatives is the
> only way to deal with that social disease.

If you truly believe this then you should shoot yourself now and get it over
with.

There is a cure, that cure is to recognize the behaviour in people and build
systems that limit the opportunity to express it. The best plan we've come
up with so far is constitutional democracy.


    ____________________________________________________________________

          What raises the standard of living may well diminish the
          quality of life.

                                                 The Club of Rome

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Burnes - Denver 
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 03:03:50 +0800
To: Jim Choate 
Subject: limitations of fed power (was CLT&G Update: 29 Dec 98 (fwd))
In-Reply-To: <199812301657.KAA05177@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Wed, 30 Dec 1998, Jim Choate wrote:

> 
> Forwarded message:
> 
> > Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 08:53:44 -0800
> > From: Michael Motyka 
> > Subject: Re: CLT&G Update: 29 Dec 98
> 
> > >The entire point of a consitutional democracy is to avoid >centralization.
> > >

That would be a valid point if we were living in that arrangement.  I
like to be a little more specifc.  We are living in a democratically elected
reprentative constitutional republic.

The point of that constitution is to shackle the tendancy of
a bureaucracy from assuming authority over matters never
assigned to it and using its enforcement powers to assure it.
Eventually the people, wallowing in ignorance, forget the 
infraction and the bureacracy assumes de facto control.

More eloquently stated:

"Our Constitution has accordingly fixed the limits to which, and no
further, our confidence may go... In questions of power, then, let no more
be heard of confidence in man, but bind him down from mischief by the
chains of the Constitution." --Thomas Jefferson: Draft Kentucky
Resolutions, 1798. ME 17:388

jim




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Burnes - Denver 
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 03:20:38 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: National Know Your Bank Day
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



In the interest of National Know Your Bank Day, for what its worth,
I'd like to address the issue of perpetual public debt that the 
Federal Reserve System and our esteemed Congress has foisted on us.

Here is a wonderful and powerful quote from Mr Jefferson.

"To preserve [the] independence [of the people,] we must not let our
rulers load us with perpetual debt. We must make our election between
economy and liberty, or profusion and servitude. If we run into such debts
as that we must be taxed in our meat and in our drink, in our necessaries
and our comforts, in our labors and our amusements, for our callings and
our creeds, as the people of England are, our people, like them, must come
to labor sixteen hours in the twenty-four, give the earnings of fifteen of
these to the government for their debts and daily expenses, and the
sixteenth being insufficient to afford us bread, we must live, as they now
do, on oatmeal and potatoes, have no time to think, no means of calling
the mismanagers to account, but be glad to obtain subsistence by hiring
ourselves to rivet their chains on the necks of our fellow-sufferers."
--Thomas Jefferson to Samuel Kercheval, 1816. ME 15:39




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 03:34:31 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: limitations of fed power (was CLT&G Update: 29 Dec 98 (fwd)) (fwd)
Message-ID: <199812301902.NAA05632@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 11:46:39 -0700 (MST)
> From: Jim Burnes - Denver 
> Subject: limitations of fed power (was CLT&G Update: 29 Dec 98 (fwd))

> > > >The entire point of a consitutional democracy is to avoid >centralization.
> > > >
> 
> That would be a valid point if we were living in that arrangement.  I
> like to be a little more specifc.  We are living in a democratically elected
> reprentative constitutional republic.

A representative democracy is still a democracy. The ONLY guarantee of limits
in ANY democracy is whether it is constitutional or not. That is the
defining issue because that is what limits and defines the governmental
structures. The defining issue is not whether it is representative or direct
but rather that it has a constitution. A constitution and a bill of rights
are in no way a requirement for a democracy (representative or direct). That
constitution is what prevents mob-rule.

> The point of that constitution is to shackle the tendancy of
> a bureaucracy from assuming authority over matters never
> assigned to it and using its enforcement powers to assure it.

Which is the point under discussion after all.

> Eventually the people, wallowing in ignorance, forget the 
> infraction and the bureacracy assumes de facto control.

That is a function of human psychology and not democracy. Blaiming democracy
for a function of human behaviour is more than a  little misleading. People
are social animals. It's gotten us this far and there is no reason to expect
a radical shift in human population dynamics in the near term. Really a moot
point. It is also the reason the constitution splits authorities, per the
9th and 10th, as it does. The fundamental aspect of a working democracy is
conflict, not cooperation as much of todays spin doctor press would have you
believe. And by conflict I don't mean spilled blood in the streets.

What is really amazing about it is that we have the intelligence to
recognize and deal with the trait at all.


    ____________________________________________________________________

          What raises the standard of living may well diminish the
          quality of life.

                                                 The Club of Rome

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Malachi Kenney 
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 02:45:09 +0800
To: Sunder 
Subject: Re: Roast pesky car theives with a flame thrower!
In-Reply-To: <368166A6.D950FE25@brainlink.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Wed, 23 Dec 1998, Sunder wrote:

> http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/africa/9812/11/flame.thrower.car/
> 
> Don't you wish these were legal in the USA? :)

They are. Just don't get caught with one.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 03:05:33 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: New Crypto Regs
Message-ID: <199812301835.NAA26972@smtp3.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Thanks to Ed Roback, NIST: BXA issued a press release today 
on new crypto regulations:

   http://www.bxa.doc.gov/press/98/1230encryption.html (copy below)

The regs themselves are available today only in hardcopy
in Washington DC on display at the Federal Register, but 
the electronic version will be published in the Federal Register 
tomorrow and will be on the BXA Web site . 

Anybody in DC who could get a copy of the hardcopy and 
fax it to us, it would be appreciated:

Fax: (212) 799-4003
Vox: (212) 873-8700

----------

Commerce Updates Export Controls on Encryption Products

(Washington, D.C.)     The Commerce Department will publish 
new regulations significantly streamlining government export 
controls on powerful encryption -- products that scramble computer 
data -- as part of the Clinton Administration initiatives to make 
government more efficient and enhance the global competitiveness 
of U.S. businesses. These amendments to the Export 
Administration Regulations, on public notice today at the 
Federal Register, end the need for licenses for powerful U.S. 
encryption products to companies worldwide in several 
important industry sectors after a one time review by the 
Commerce Department. The regulations implement the 
policy changes announced by Vice President Gore in 
September.

"Through the hard work of industry and government officials 
to finalize this regulation, U.S. encryption firms will be better 
able to compete effectively with encryption manufacturers 
around the world," said William A. Reinsch, Commerce 
Under Secretary for Export Administration. 

Virtually eliminated are restrictions on selling powerful 
computer data scrambling products to subsidiaries of U.S. 
corporations. There will also be favorable licensing treatment 
to strategic partners of U.S. companies. Strong U.S.-made 
encryption products are now available, under license exception, 
to insurance companies headquartered in 46 countries and 
their branches worldwide. Sales of powerful encryption to 
health and medical organizations in the same countries are 
also eased. To facilitate secure electronic transactions, 
between on-line merchants in those same countries, and 
their customers, the updated regulations permit, under a 
license exception, the export of client-server applications 
(e.g. SSL) and applications tailored to on-line transactions 
to on-line merchants. A list of eligible countries is posted 
on the BXA web-site. 

Further easing government restrictions are new allowances 
for U.S. encryption manufacturers to share their source 
code with their own foreign subsidiaries (while requiring that 
any resulting new products remain subject to U.S. regulation ) 
and streamlining reporting requirements for U.S. firms so that 
compliance is less burdensome.

The new regulations expand the policy of encouraging the 
use of recoverable encryption by removing the requirement to 
name and approve key recovery agents for exports of key 
recovery products from regulations. It also defines a new 
class of "recoverable" encryption products which can now 
be exported under Export Licensing Arrangements to foreign 
commercial firms for internal company proprietary use. 

As part of its stated goal to balance the needs of national 
security and public safety with the desire to protect personal 
privacy and strong electronic commercial security, the 
Administration continues to encourage the development 
and sale of products which enable the recovery of the 
unscrambled data, in an emergency situation.

Finally, the regulations eliminate the need to obtain licenses 
for most encryption commodities and software up to 56-bits 
or equivalent strength.

[End] 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 21:48:03 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: distribution scheme
Message-ID: <199812301314.OAA10146@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




I'm sorry, but it seems I have missed the original mail, i.e. the first quote here.
if there is anything important in it that was not quoted, please include it
somewhere in your replies. I hope I haven't missed any other mail.

>>Falcon, aka FitugMix, wrote about a suggestion to chop crypto or other 
>>contraband material into separate streams, e.g. bit 1 of each byte in 
>>stream 1, etc., hoping that this would be "legal" because it's not
>>really 
>>encryption, though if managed carefully it would still be hard to read.

>this concept is virtually identical to fractal encryption, where a
>message is chopped into its component parts (25 a's, 3 b's, 8 c's, and so
>on) and also chopped into a configuration scheme.  this form of
>encryption does fall under the definition of munitions by the u.s.
>government...

yes, I found that out in the meantime. the legal aspect falls short
of my expectations. I still consider the scheme to be both simple and
useful because it actually changes the byte structure, so looking
for 'a' or 'e' or similiar pattern-analysis does not work anymore. in
combination with steganography, I believe this can make things really
hard to find, but I'm willing to learn the opposite if someone with
more cryptoanalysis know-how tells me. if I'm right, it might still
be useful for people, e.g. in china working outside their local laws
anyways.
it probably needs extension before it's really useful, so I have put
up the code on funet.fi (pub/crypto/cypherpunks/incoming). take a
look and tell me what you think, please.


Falcon




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Johannes Kroeger 
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 22:03:15 +0800
To: mail2news_nospam@nym.alias.net
Subject: FINAL REMINDER: New PGP and Mixmaster keys at squirrel.owl.de
Message-ID: <19981230141719.A24646@squirrel.owl.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Boundary..3999.1071713824.multipart/signed"

--Boundary..3999.1071713824.multipart/signed
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

New keys at squirrel already in use; old ones expire on January 1, 1999.

Key for user ID: Squirrel Remailer  (EXPIRE:1999-07-01)
2048-bit key, key ID 912CA289, created 1998/11/25

-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
Version: 2.6.3in

mQENAzZcErkA2gEIAMQpXNh1i9puYy/XwQIA8UrK+3BIPyCd92GBCqubdsJeEhAV
cOCwfk3g0XGBDYiJBSkCqHG06IZMnXU6BVyukcLEUrmJXeyum7Nc6287ZBT92Ebm
XCivROmMiOi2ZpdLUf2Na3QbFyUbZDu/vFTL64wJh3pqjP6BokpVoJi6IIGj7AS3
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AAF5qt39x2jsrKSH9p9fpZO06WuB
=Yqyh
-----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
squirrel mix@squirrel.owl.de 3de441b2b721e4853259ae6952a0cfca 2.0.4b43 CNm

-----Begin Mix Key-----
3de441b2b721e4853259ae6952a0cfca
258
AATdqb9WxExPliCxZIZ9GZyXCGZZiDa4bwZPSP4S
lz7UORYAZu+rjGDinf4lfmPxfZIcF0X1oefLetF4
TxN4dZxmJWqz65NufN7pu4BngA1yGcV5Mn7LqbJh
8kqlGEdUFeb4LJTxhYW1flD1HEfmfE4nuYMQniSb
oXLX1rypyH9OiwAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAQAB
-----End Mix Key-----

-- 
Johannes Kroeger		
Send mail with subject "send pgp-key" to get my PGP key


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--Boundary..3999.1071713824.multipart/signed--



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Max Inux 
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 04:02:43 +0800
To: Multiple recipients of list 
Subject: [ISN] Academic Attacks on SAFER+  (fwd)
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





---------- Forwarded message ----------
Subject: [ISN] Academic Attacks on SAFER+ 

Forwarded From: "Jay D. Dyson" 
Originally From: John Kelsey 

I believe I have found two attacks on the SAFER+ version with 256-bit
keys.  While these attacks aren't practical, they demonstrate a weakness
in the SAFER+ key schedule design, and may lead to more practical attacks
in the future. 

The first attack is a modified meet-in-the-middle attack, requiring 2
known plaintexts and their corresponding ciphertexts, 2^{37} bytes of
memory, and work equivalent to about 2^{241} SAFER+ encryptions.  I have
discussed this attack with Massey, and am fairly confident it really
works. 

The second attack is a related-key attack, requiring 256 chosen plaintexts
and their corresponding plaintexts encrypted under two related keys, and
work equivalent to about 2^{216} SAFER+ encryptions.  This is a much newer
attack (about two days old), and I am less certain of it, but I believe it
works. 

I will be writing these attacks up for publication fairly soon, but I
wanted to announce them here to get the word out, and to see if anyone can
either improve on them or find problems with them. 

Both attacks exploit two useful properties of SAFER+.  First, I will
describe the two useful properties, then I will describe the two attacks
very briefly.  The rest of this note assumes familiarity with SAFER+. 

1.0. The Two Useful Properties of SAFER+

Consider SAFER+ with a 256-bit key.  The key schedule is quite simple: We
extend the key by a parity byte, getting a 33 byte extended key.  We then
use the 33 byte extended key to generate the entire sequence of subkeys. 
Each subkey byte is determined by only one key byte.  If you know a given
key byte, you know all the subkey bytes it determines;  if you know a
subkey byte, you know the key byte from which it was derived. 

SAFER+ rounds use 32 bytes of subkey each, in two blocks of 16 bytes.  If
the key bytes are k[0..32], then we have

First Round:
k[0..15]
k[1..16]

Second Round:
k[2..17]
k[3..18]

Third Round:
k[4..19]
k[5..20]

etc.

This means that it takes quite a while in the encryption process for the
last couple key bytes to affect the encryption.  SAFER+ with a 256 bit key
has 16 rounds and an output transformation.  The output transformation
uses only sixteen key bytes. 

Now, consider how many key bytes have affected the encryption at all after
each round:  After the first round (round 0), 17 key bytes have been used. 
After the second round, 19 key bytes have been used.  After the third, 21. 
Continuing, we can see that it takes 9 (out of 16) rounds before SAFER+
has used all 32 key bytes.  This allows both of my attacks. 

0 	17
1	19
2	21
3	23
4	25
5	27
6	29
7	31
8	all

The other useful property is that we don't have to know all the key bytes
to be able to recognize an output from a round of SAFER+ as being correct. 

Consider the situation where we know all but the last byte of the key of
some round, and we know its input block. Each SAFER+ round consists of the
keyed byte substitution layer, and the mixing layer.  If we know k[0..14],
but not k[15..16], then we end up knowing all but two bytes of the input
into the mixing layer.  The result is that we end up knowing *none* of the
bytes of the output.  However, we still know relationships between the
bytes of the output.  The matrix that describes the mixing layer makes it
easy to see how to combine the output bytes into values that are not
dependent on the unknown bytes of input. 

Now, consider a situation where we know all but the last two key bytes for
round 0, and all but the first two key bytes for round 1.  We can go
backward through the mixing layer of round 1 (it's unkeyed), and then go
back through the keyed byte substitution layer, learning all but two bytes
of the output from round 0.  We then make use of the trick described
above.  We will know relationships between the remaining known bytes of
output from round 0, regardless of the unknown key bytes. 

2.0.	The Meet-in-the-Middle Attack

The real insight that makes the low-memory attack work is that we can do
meet-in-the-middle with two rounds whose key material we don't know all
of.  That is, we guess the keys for rounds 1-7 (numbering from one), which
gives us all but two of the bytes for round 8. That's 29 key bytes
guessed.  We then compute some expressions in the output bytes of round 8
that don't rely on knowing the two unknown bytes of key, and that don't
rely on knowing the two bytes of round 8's output that will depend on the
two unknown key bytes when doing the guess on the other side. We guess the
keys for the output transformation (16 bytes), plus the keys for rounds
10-16.  That means 30 bytes of key guessed, and it also gives us enough
information to get knowledge of all but two bytes of the output of round
8.  We then compute those same expressions in those bytes. 

The result is that we can do the meet-in-the-middle at the output from
round 8, despite not knowing all the key bytes used in round 8 or 9. 

Round | Key Bytes Guessed
1		17
2		19
3		21
4		23
5		25
6		27
7		29

8		29  (two unknown key bytes)
- - --------------  (this is where the meet-in-the-middle happens)
9		30  (two unknown key bytes)

10		30
11		28
12		26
13		24
14		22
15		20
16		18
OX		16

That is, we can compute a set of bytes that are dependent only on the 29
bytes of key guessed from the top, or the 30 guessed from the bottom. 

Now, this would seem to take up a lot of memory to do this
meet-in-the-middle attack.  Fortunately, however, most of the key bytes
guessed from the top are also guessed from the bottom.  We thus mount the
attack by first guessing all key values in common from the top and the
bottom.  We then do the meet-in-the-middle by trying all possible 2^{24}
values from one side, and all possible 2^{32} values from the other.  We
compute this intermediate value that doesn't need any other key material
from both sides, store our results in a sorted list, and look for
duplicates from the top and bottom.  With two plaintexts, it's easy to get
more than 32 bytes of intermediate values, meaning that we don't expect to
see any matches from incorrect guesses. 

3.0. The Related-Key Attack

The related-key attack works on a similar principle. 


My current attack is very simple:  We choose a pair of keys, K,K^*, such
that the keys differ only in the first two bytes; in these two bytes, we
have a difference of 0x80.  Under K we encrypt 256 plaintexts, P[i], each
identical except with a different leftmost byte.  Under K^* we encrypt 256
plaintexts, P[i]^*, with some fixed difference D<>0x80 from P[i] in the
leftmost byte, and with fixed difference 0x80 in the next byte over. 

With probability about 1/2, we get at least one pair of plaintexts
P[i],P[i]^*, whose values after two rounds are identical under the
different keys.  When this happens, their values are also identical after
nine rounds.  Now, we do our trick from the meet-in-the-middle attack,
again, and guess the last 26 bytes of relevant key material.  This lets us
peel off the output transformation and the last five rounds, leaving us
with access to the output from the eleventh round.  We can peel off the
PHT layer, since we know it and its inverse. We can then learn all but two
of the bytes input to the eleventh round. 

We now know all but two bytes of the output from the tenth round, and we
know a pair of texts for which only the last two bytes of the input to the
tenth tound had changed.  We can check to see if the values we've computed
as being the outputs from the tenth round are consistent with this
situation, and thus are consistent with this being a right pair. 

We expect to have to check 256 different pairs of texts in this way, each
with work equivalent to 2^{208} SAFER+ encryptions.  This leaves us with
work equivalent to about 2^{216} encryptions, total, to learn 208/256 of
the SAFER+ key bits.  The remaining 48 bits can be brute-forced after
these are known. 

We thus break SAFER+ with a differential related-key attack, using 2
related keys, 512 plaintexts encrypted under each key, and 2^{216} work. 

Comments? 

- - --John Kelsey, kelsey@counterpane.com / kelsey@plnet.net
NEW PGP print =  5D91 6F57 2646 83F9 6D7F 9C87 886D 88AF


-o-
Subscribe: mail majordomo@repsec.com with "subscribe isn".
Today's ISN Sponsor: Internet Security Institute [www.isi-sec.com]





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 05:27:11 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: LEA VPN's in the South [CNN]
Message-ID: <199812302106.PAA05842@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> X-within-URL: http://www.cnn.com/TECH/computing/9812/30/vpncops.idg/

>                            A HIGH-TECH WAR ON DRUGS
>                                        
>   Mobile VPNs are key to law enforcement alliance in Southern states
>   
>    
>    
>    December 30, 1998
>    Web posted at: 3:05 PM EST
>    
>    by L. Scott Tillett From...
>    Civic.com 
>    
>    (IDG) -- Counternarcotics units in four Southern states soon will
>    begin piloting a new technology that allows law enforcement officials
>    to work securely on mobile computers -- palmtops and laptops -- to
>    create virtual private networks (VPNs) over the Internet.
>    
>    As many as 3,000 law enforcement officials in Alabama, Georgia,
>    Louisiana and Mississippi will use a new software application product
>    called Viatores to build a secure VPN for sharing information while
>    investigating drug-related crimes. A small start-up company in
>    Northern Virginia, Ecutel LLC, pioneered the application.

[text deleted]


    ____________________________________________________________________

          What raises the standard of living may well diminish the
          quality of life.

                                                 The Club of Rome

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: sales@golive.com
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 09:20:40 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: GoLive CyberStudio 30-day Activation Key
Message-ID: <199812310052.QAA07336@company.golive.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Dear Fritzie,

Thank you for downloading the GoLive CyberStudio Tryout
software.

Your official 30-day activation key is: TRIA1MT23NFJD8MXGGJ85UDA

You'll need to enter this key when you first start-up the
software.

Included with the GoLive CyberStudio installation are the
latest Release Notes and New Product Features for GoLive
CyberStudio.

NOTE: If you are using Stuffit Expander 4.5.x to decode and
decompress PDF documents, please make sure the cross
platform preference and the option "Convert Text Files to
Macintosh Format" is set to "Never".

If you have questions about how to use the Tryout software,
GoLive's knowledgeable Technical Support staff is available
to assist you. We suggest you first check the Technical
Support section of our Web site www.golive.com. If you don't
find your answers there, please send us an email at
support@golive.com or call 1-800-554-6638. 

When you are ready to purchase GoLive CyberStudio or if you
want to know more about why GoLive CyberStudio is the best
product for Web site design, please return to our Web site
or contact me at 1-800-554-6638 or 1-650-463-1580.

Sincerely,

Dan Fernandez
Director US Sales
GoLive Systems
Sales@Golive.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: jeradonah@juno.com (jeradonah lives)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 07:15:05 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: distribution scheme
In-Reply-To: <199812301314.OAA10146@replay.com>
Message-ID: <19981230.174514.4551.8.jeradonah@juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




On Wed, 30 Dec 1998 14:14:19 +0100 Anonymous  writes:
>
>>>Falcon, aka FitugMix, wrote about a suggestion to chop crypto or 
>>>other contraband material into separate streams, e.g. bit 1 of each 
>>>byte in stream 1, etc., hoping that this would be "legal" because it's

>>>not really encryption, though if managed carefully it would still be 
>>>hard to read.
>
>>this concept is virtually identical to fractal encryption, where a
>>message is chopped into its component parts (25 a's, 3 b's, 8 c's, 
>>and so on) and also chopped into a configuration scheme.  this form 
>>of encryption does fall under the definition of munitions by the u.s.
>>government...
>
>yes, I found that out in the meantime. the legal aspect falls short
>of my expectations. I still consider the scheme to be both simple and
>useful 

fractal encryption is a simple concept.  however, testing of various
methods proved that the key was the "pattern recognition" element. 
because this part is sent separately from the alphanumeric element, the
cipher itself is as secure as imaginable.  only if someone captures both
elements, is able to understand the combination, and break the pattern
recognition scheme, can the cipher be read...

>I still consider the scheme to be both simple and useful because it 
>actually changes the byte structure, so looking for 'a' or 'e' or
similiar 
>pattern-analysis does not work anymore. 

a non-linear methodology will always defeat traditional (linear)
cryptoanalysis.  but that is precisely the reason that the us government
opposes the development and export of this form of encryption scheme...

ac












___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 09:56:45 +0800
To: abd@CDT.ORG
Subject: We promised!
Message-ID: <368AD310.120B@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

John Young

We made it. http://jya.com/whpfiles.htm

With some help of nmol, I got wsftp working this afternoon. I failed to
click on a filename.

Good stuff at webmasters.nmol.com.  This site is under construction.

New employee Randy is putting his software at this site. In particular,
look for hypersnap which captures screen shots.

This WILL NOT BE OUR WORKING SITE. Only testing so see if I
sort-of understand html. 

Without your advice and ALOPress's html compiler putting-up a
web site in one day wouldn't have been possible for me.

We plan to post other people's pro se and other lawsuit progress
at our site.  

And try to get some CROOKED JUDGES and clerks removed from the federal
court system.

Let's hope McKinney and Grassley can help get this settled before 
IT GETS EVEN WORSE!

bill

Title: Main(Page 1)






  Pro se [for yourself]


Pro Se Litigation with the US
Federal Government



Purpose of  The Real World is to help
Movers, Shakers, and Do-ers 









From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mark 13 
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 02:27:34 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Crackers Set Sights on Iraq
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Geniuses at work:

http://www.wired.com/news/print_version/politics/story/17074.html?wnpg=all

> "It's a crime in itself to build weapons of mass destruction when the
> children of the country are starving," said a group member who goes by
> the name "kInGbOnG."

And do they hope to kill Saddam, or help in NOT starving the nation?

No, they plan to attack the government information systems used 
to rationing and planning deliveries of the food!

> Though the systems' geographic origin could not be positively confirmed,
> login prompts contained phonetic spellings of Arabic words.

And to top it off, they're not even sure which country they are attacking!
They can't possibly hit any military targets with this attack!

And they hope to further the human rights with this attack?

God save us from this kind of stupidity.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.wired.com/news/print_version/politics/story/17074.html?wnpg=all

Crackers Set Sights on Iraq
by James Glave

3:00 a.m.  30.Dec.98.PST
A global group of 24 hackers and crackers spent Monday night probing,
mapping, and preparing to attack computer networks owned by the government
of Iraq. 

Quoting at one point from the Declaration of Independence, Steve Stakton,
a member of the seven-year-old Legions of the Underground group, called
for a concerted one-week cracking campaign against Iraq. 

"Iraq has treated human rights issues as poorly as China has," said
Stakton in a meeting of the group that was held Monday night on Internet
Relay Chat. "We need to carry out what the government won't, and can't,
do." 

Stakton, 24, quoted from the group's mission statement: "We are ready to
commence, and take [part] in electronic warfare if requested." 

Iraq has no connection to the public Internet, though Iraq Net, an
official government homepage, is based in New York. Group members claim to
be targeting an older, nonpublic network inside Iraqi borders that they
say runs on a vintage protocol called X.25. 

"We are targeting them via terminal dialup," said Stakton in an interview
conducted with group members on Tuesday over IRC, a global text-based chat
network where identities can easily be forged. 

Group members said they were probing sequential network numbers within an
older network owned by MCI, which they believed were assigned to Iraq. 
They described the system as "a gateway that handles systems that have no
local chain of numbers." 

"It would effectively isolate them from the world if we took out the
X.25,"  added a 19-year-old member based in Minnesota who goes by the name
"lothos." 

"If we wanted we'd be able to dial up and make a huge amount of connection
to their systems and possibly bring it down to its knees," Stakton said. 

One member said that he was analyzing network scans from the Iraqi cities
of Ar Rutbah and Al Kut. 

Scott Ellentuch, a network security specialist with Internet consultancy
TTSG, said X.25 networks are commonly used to connect older equipment. 
Iraq hasn't received any computers or computer supplies since the United
Nations embargo was put in place at the time of the Gulf War. 

"If they do have an X.25 connection into Iraq, and that is their only
network capability, someone could hop off the Internet and hop on to the
X.25 and ride into the X.25 network," said Ellentuch. The group said its
efforts partly involved "wardialing," a process of automatically dialing
one phone number after another looking for modems.  Members said that many
modems answered at 2400 bps -- a speed common in the late 1980s. 

"Many other countries don't have ... technology as [advanced as] the
United States," said Ellentuch. "The exploits that are possible on these
machines have been around for ages." 

A member of the group supplied Wired News with a log of attempted
connections to various institutional computer systems and bulletin board
systems. Though the systems' geographic origin could not be positively
confirmed, login prompts contained phonetic spellings of Arabic words. 

Stakton said that Legions' scanning efforts would continue Monday night,
but declined to say when the group hoped to launch its attack. The Legions
said that the attack was a legitimate act of protest against a rogue
dictator. 

"It's a crime in itself to build weapons of mass destruction when the
children of the country are starving," said a group member who goes by the
name "kInGbOnG." 

In recent months, Legions of the Underground, whose members are largely in
their 20s, has launched numerous attacks against China to draw attention
to that nation's human-rights record. 

Last July, in a demonstration of their technical abilities, members
claimed to have remotely moved a satellite dish owned by Time Warner
Cablevision.  The company confirmed a security breach in that incident. 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: anali 
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 23:00:13 +0800
To: 
Subject: Happy New Year 1999 - Export Trade
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19981230200727.0ff7d542@slt.lk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



30-12-1998.

DEAR SIR,

WE ARE ONE OF LEADING EXPORT ORGANIZATION IN SRI LANKA.WE WISH FORWARD OUR
EXPORT MARKETS INFORMATINS FOR YOUR REFERENCES.OUR EXPORT COMMDITIES DETAIL
GIVEN BELOW:

EXPORT COMMODITIES-
*******************
1.FRESH FRUITS AND VEGETABLES.

2.CEYLON BLACK TEA IN BAGS,PACKETS OR BULK.

3.CEYLON HERBAL TEA IN BAGES,PACKETS OR BULK.DETAILS AS FOLLOWS:

i.Bevila Tea (Sida Racemosa)Recommended for Reumatic pains/Cooling.

ii.Ginger Tea (Zingiber Officinale)Recommended for Stimulant/Carminative.

iii.Beli Tea (Aegle Marmelos)Recommended for Chronic Fever/Piles.

iv.Ranawara Tea (Cassia Auriculata)Improve complexion in Woman. 

v.Gotukola Tea (Centella Asiatica)Improve the Memory.

vi.Cinnamon Tea (Cinnamomum Zeylanicum)Recommended for Reumatism/Cold.

vii.Clove Tea (Eugenia Caryophyllata)Recommended for Cold/Stomachie.

viii.Polpala Tea (Aerva Lanata)Recommended for Kidney flushing.

ix.Lantana Tea (Phyla Nodiflora)Recommended as Diuretic/Carminative.

 
4.CEYLON HERBAL PORRIDGE IN CONSUMER PACKETS.(HATHAWARIYA,-
 GOTUKOLA,WEL-PENELA,MUKUNUWENNA & IRAMUSU).

5.CEYLON HERBAL TEA (BLOOD PURIFYING TEA)- TEPHROSIA   PURPUREA,TINOSPORA
CORDIFOLIA,PHYLLANTHUS EMBLICA,-
 EVOLVULUS ALSINOIDES & CASSIA AURICULATA.

6.CEYOLN HERBAL TEA (SLIMMING TEA)-GYRINOPS WALLA,-
 BAUHINIA  VARIEGATE,ATALANTIA MISSIONIS,MINOSA PUDICA- 
 & CALOTROPIS GIGANTEA.
 
7.SPICES (BLACK PEPPER,CARDAMONS,CLOVES,GINGER,MACE,NUTMEG 
  TUMERIC AND CINNAMON).

8.FRESH COCONUTS AND DESICCATED COCONUT.

9.FIBER(COIR PRODUCTS)-FIBER MOSSTICK,HUSK CHIPS,COMPRESSED
COCOHUSK,DUST,PEAT.

10.SEA FOODS.DETAILS FOLLOWS:

i.Fish -Frozen/Chilled
ii.Shrimp.
iii.Black Tiger Farm Prawns.
iv.Giant Tiger Prawns.
v.Cattle fish.
vi.Octopus. 
vii.Live Prawns.
vii.Lobster (Live or Frozen)

Processing and Packing can be arranged to suite your requirements.All
shipments by Air and Carry Sri Lanka Government Health Certificate of Origin.

11.RICE AND DHAL (RED LENTILS ).

12.NARURAL RUBBER.

13.SUGER.

14.INTERNATIONAL BRAND NAME CIGARETTES.

15.INTERNATIONAL BRAND NAME BEER AND NON ALCOHOLIC BEER AND          LIQUOR.

16.ALL INTERNATIONAL BRAND NAME PERFUMES.

17.CRUDE OIL,PETROLEUM BY - PRODUCTS. 

18.MEAT PRODUCTS-CHICKEN/BEEF/PORK

WE ARE THANKING YOU IN ADVANCE FOR YOUR EARLY ATTENTION IN THIS REGARD.

BEST REGARDS,

LIONES ENTERPRISES
NO-30,SUNETHRADEVI ROAD,KOHUWALA, 
P.O.BOX-77 ,NUGEGODA,
SRI LANKA.
TEL   :0094 1 823464 (5 Lines)
FAX   :0094 1 823464
E.MAIL:anali@slt.lk   

****************************
We are following brand name Cigarettese and Beer manufacturer's Agent.
Details as follows:

CIGARETTES - ALL PRICES IN F.O.B.COLOMBO/SRI LANKA (USD.)
**********************************************************
ONE (01)CASE CONTAIN 10,000 STICKS
**********************************

1/MARLBORO - LIGHT/REGULER  
Origin:U.S.A.

2/MILD SEVEN -HARD PACK     
Origin:U.K. AND SWITZERLAND
 
3/DAVIDOFF -CLASSIC         
Origin:GERMANY

4/SUPER KING               
Origin:U.K.

5.REGAL KING SIZE           
Origin:U.K.

6.TEDLAPIDUS                
Origin:U.K.

7/ROTHMANS                  
Origin:U.K.

8/DUNHILL                   
Origin:U.K.

9/555 -REGULER/LIGHT        
Origin:U.K.

10/555 -INTERNATIONAL        
Origin:U.K. 

11.Camel,Winston,Salem and More Brand Cigarettes we can supply at the 
rate of USD.315.00

QUANTITY: 1 MASTER CASE = 10.000 Cigs
	  1 x 20' Container   = 430 Master cases
	  1 x 40' Container   = 920 Master cases

SHIPMENTS - 20' AND 40' FCL'S ONLY.

*************************
BEERS
*****

1.BARON'S BEER (MADE IN HOLLAND)
********************************
Packing :24 cans per shrink-wrapped tray
         2277 trays 24 x 330ml per 20'FCL
Quality :5% Vol.Alc.

2.MASTER BEER(MADE IN HOLLAND)
******************************
Packing :24 cans per shrink-wrapped tray
         2277 trays 24 x 330ml per 20'FCL
Quality :5% Vol.Alc.

3.HOLLANDIA BEER(MADE IN HOLLAND)
*********************************
Packing :24 cans per shrink-wrapped tray
         2277 trays 24 x 330ml per 20'FCL
Quality :5% Vol.Alc.

4.BAVARIA BEER(MADE IN HOLLAND)
*******************************
Packing :24 cans per shrink-wrapped tray
         2261 trays 24 x 330ml per 20'FCL
Quality :5% Vol.Alc.
 
5.ORANJEBOOM PREMIIM BEER(MADE IN HOLLAND)
******************************************
Packing :24 cans per shrink-wrapped tray
         2300 trays 24 x 330ml per 20'FCL
Quality :5% Vol.Alc.

6.REMBRANDT MASTERPIECR LAGER BEER(MADE IN HOLLAND)
***************************************************
Packing :24 cans per shrink-wrapped tray
         2300 trays 24 x 330ml per 20'FCL
Quality :5% Vol.Alc.

7.MELCHERS PREMIUM EXPORT PILSENER(MADE IN HOLLAND)
***************************************************
Packing :24 cans per shrink-wrapped tray
         2300 trays 24 x 330ml per 20'FCL
Quality :5% Vol.Alc.

8.VAN DELFT PREMIUM EXPORT PILSENER(MADE IN HOLLAND)
****************************************************
Packing :24 cans per shrink-wrapped tray
         2300 trays 24 x 330ml per 20'FCL
Quality :5% Vol.Alc.
  
9.HEINEKEN (GREEN LABEL)MADE IN HOLLAND
***************************************
Packing :24 cans per shrink-wrapped tray
         2300 trays 24 x 330ml per 20'FCL
Quality :5% Vol.Alc.
  
GENERAL TERMS AND CONDITION
***************************
SHIPMENTS - 20' or 40' FCL'S ONLY.

DELIVERY TIME :Received your L/c to our Bank arrange the shipment 
 
Further informations 
********************
ATLANTIC NAVIGATIONS LINES (PVT) LTD
NO-30,SUNETHRADEVI ROAD , KOHUWALA ,
NUGEGODA.COLOMBO.
SRI LANKA.
TEL: 0094-1-823464 (5 LINES)
FAX: 0094-1-823464
E.Mail: anali@slt.lk




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Max Inux 
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 10:20:23 +0800
To: Multiple recipients of list 
Subject: Star Trek and Microsoft (fwd)
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 20:35:34 -0500
X-Loop: openpgp.net
From: Christopher Baker 
Reply-To: isp-linux@isp-linux.com
To: isp-linux@isp-linux.com
Subject: Star Trek and Microsoft

Star Trek and Microsoft...

 
"Mr. LaForge, have you had any success with your 
attempts at finding a weakness in the Borg? And 
Mr. Data, have you been able to access their command 
pathways?"


"Yes, Captain. In fact, we found the answer by
searching  
through our archives on late Twentieth-century
computing 
technology."



 
"What the hell is 'Microsoft'?"

 
"Allow me to explain. We will send this program, for
some 
reason called 'Windows', through the Borg command 
pathways. Once inside their root command unit, it will 
begin consuming system resources at an unstoppable 
rate."

 
"But the Borg have the ability to adapt. Won't they
alter their 
processing systems to increase their storage capacity?"

 
"Yes, Captain. But when 'Windows' detects this, it
creates 
a new version of itself known as an 'upgrade'. The use
of 
resources increases exponentially with each iteration.
 
The Borg will not be able to adapt quickly enough.  
Eventually all of their processing ability will be
taken over, 
and none will be available for their normal
operational 
functions."

 
"Excellent work. This is even better than that 
'unsolvable geometric shape' idea."

.. . . 15 Minutes Later . . .

 
"Captain, We have successfully installed the 'Windows' 
in the command unit and as expected it immediately 
consumed 85% of all resources. We however have 
not received any confirmation of the expected
'upgrade'"

 
"Our scanners have picked up an increase in Borg 
storage and CPU capacity to compensate, but we 
still have no indication of an 'upgrade' to compensate 
for their increase."

 
"Data, scan the history banks again and determine if 
their is something we have missed."

 
"Sir, I believe their is a reason for the failure in
the '
upgrade'.  Apparently the Borg have circumvented that 
part of the plan by not sending in their registration
cards.

 
"Captain we have no choice. Requesting permission to 
begin emergency escape sequence 3F . . ."

 
"Wait, Captain I just detected their CPU capacity has 
suddenly dropped to 0%!"

 
"Data, what does your scanners show?"

 
"Apparently the Borg have found the internal 'Windows' 
module named 'Solitaire' and it has used up all the 
CPU capacity."

 
"Lets wait and see how long this 'solitaire' can
reduce 
their functionality."

.. . . Two Hours Pass . . .

 
"Geordi what's the status on the Borg?"

 
"As expected the Borg are attempting to re-engineer 
to compensate for increased CPU and storage 
demands, but each time they successfully increase 
resources I have setup our closest deep space monitor 
beacon to transmit more 'windows' modules from 
something called the 'Microsoft fun-pack'.

 
"How much time will that buy us ?"

 
"Current Borg solution rates allow me to predicate 
an interest time span of 6 more hours."

 
"Captain, another vessel has entered our sector."

 
"Identify."

 
"It appears to have markings very similar to the 
'Microsoft' logo."

 
"THIS IS ADMIRAL BILL GATES OF THE MICROSOFT
FLAGSHIP MONOPOLY.  WE HAVE POSITIVE 
CONFIRMATION OF UNREGISTERED SOFTWARE 
IN THIS SECTOR.  SURRENDER ALL ASSETS, AND 
WE CAN AVOID ANY TROUBLE. YOU HAVE 10 
SECONDS."

 
"The alien ship has just opened its forward hatches 
and released thousands of humanoid shaped objects."

 
"Magnify forward viewer on the alien craft."

 
"Good Grief, captain! Those are humans floating 
straight toward the Borg ship with no life support
suits! 
How can they survive the tortures of deep space?!"

 
"I don't believe that those are humans sir, if you
will 
look closer I believe you will see that they are
carrying 
something recognized by twenty-first century man as 
doe skin leather briefcases, and wearing Armani suits."

 
"Lawyers!!"

 
"It can't be.  All the Lawyers were rounded up and
sent 
hurtling into the sun in 2017 during the Great
Awakening."

 
"True, but apparently some must have survived."

 
"They have surrounded the Borg ship and are covering 
it with all types of papers."

 
"I believe that is known in ancient vernacular as 'red 
tape' it often proves fatal."

 
"They're tearing the Borg to pieces!"

 
"Turn off the monitors. I can't stand to watch, not
even 
the Borg deserve that." 
~~~~~

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Ultimately, education is about our place in the universe, our
place in it. The bigger that connection, the bigger our lives
and dreams. Through what we take to know and understand,
we can be as immense as the milky way--glorious indeed."
--Grace Llewellyn, _Teenage Liberation Handbook_
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Baker -- chrisbaker@iname.com, chrisbaker@nls.net
"If you keep looking back, you'll lose your momentum."

_______ • The http://ISP-Linux.com/ EMAIL DISCUSSION LIST • ______
To Remove, Send An Email To: mailto:remove-isp-linux@isp-linux.com
To Join, Send An Email To:   mailto:join-isp-linux@isp-linux.com






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Frederick Burroughs 
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 10:27:22 +0800
To: Cypherpunks 
Subject: Stinger strike stagesetting
Message-ID: <368ADC62.EFC4A25C@shentel.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


There's a story in the Dec. 30, 1998 Washington Post about how US intelligence
acquires foreign weapons technology. Specific mention is made about trading
US Stinger missile know-how to China for whatever. My guess is the government's
trying to set the stage to shift blame away from CIA for leaking antiaircraft
missile technology, 1000 Stingers in the hands of Afghan rebels notwithstanding,
and the aircraft disasters to come.

Story at:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/campfin/stories/vector123098.htm

And, of course the esteemed Mr. Young is always on top of things:
http://jya.com/vector.htm




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: anali 
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 00:25:37 +0800
To: "dan@siri.org>
Subject: Happy New Year 1999 - Export Trade
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19981230213844.2d2fe0fe@slt.lk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



30-12-1998.

DEAR SIR,

WE ARE ONE OF LEADING EXPORT ORGANIZATION IN SRI LANKA.WE WISH FORWARD OUR
EXPORT MARKETS INFORMATINS FOR YOUR REFERENCES.OUR EXPORT COMMDITIES DETAIL
GIVEN BELOW:

EXPORT COMMODITIES-
*******************
1.FRESH FRUITS AND VEGETABLES.

2.CEYLON BLACK TEA IN BAGS,PACKETS OR BULK.

3.CEYLON HERBAL TEA IN BAGES,PACKETS OR BULK.DETAILS AS FOLLOWS:

i.Bevila Tea (Sida Racemosa)Recommended for Reumatic pains/Cooling.

ii.Ginger Tea (Zingiber Officinale)Recommended for Stimulant/Carminative.

iii.Beli Tea (Aegle Marmelos)Recommended for Chronic Fever/Piles.

iv.Ranawara Tea (Cassia Auriculata)Improve complexion in Woman. 

v.Gotukola Tea (Centella Asiatica)Improve the Memory.

vi.Cinnamon Tea (Cinnamomum Zeylanicum)Recommended for Reumatism/Cold.

vii.Clove Tea (Eugenia Caryophyllata)Recommended for Cold/Stomachie.

viii.Polpala Tea (Aerva Lanata)Recommended for Kidney flushing.

ix.Lantana Tea (Phyla Nodiflora)Recommended as Diuretic/Carminative.

 
4.CEYLON HERBAL PORRIDGE IN CONSUMER PACKETS.(HATHAWARIYA,-
 GOTUKOLA,WEL-PENELA,MUKUNUWENNA & IRAMUSU).

5.CEYLON HERBAL TEA (BLOOD PURIFYING TEA)- TEPHROSIA   PURPUREA,TINOSPORA
CORDIFOLIA,PHYLLANTHUS EMBLICA,-
 EVOLVULUS ALSINOIDES & CASSIA AURICULATA.

6.CEYOLN HERBAL TEA (SLIMMING TEA)-GYRINOPS WALLA,-
 BAUHINIA  VARIEGATE,ATALANTIA MISSIONIS,MINOSA PUDICA- 
 & CALOTROPIS GIGANTEA.
 
7.SPICES (BLACK PEPPER,CARDAMONS,CLOVES,GINGER,MACE,NUTMEG 
  TUMERIC AND CINNAMON).

8.FRESH COCONUTS AND DESICCATED COCONUT.

9.FIBER(COIR PRODUCTS)-FIBER MOSSTICK,HUSK CHIPS,COMPRESSED
COCOHUSK,DUST,PEAT.

10.SEA FOODS.DETAILS FOLLOWS:

i.Fish -Frozen/Chilled
ii.Shrimp.
iii.Black Tiger Farm Prawns.
iv.Giant Tiger Prawns.
v.Cattle fish.
vi.Octopus. 
vii.Live Prawns.
vii.Lobster (Live or Frozen)

Processing and Packing can be arranged to suite your requirements.All
shipments by Air and Carry Sri Lanka Government Health Certificate of Origin.

11.RICE AND DHAL (RED LENTILS ).

12.NARURAL RUBBER.

13.SUGER.

14.INTERNATIONAL BRAND NAME CIGARETTES.

15.INTERNATIONAL BRAND NAME BEER AND NON ALCOHOLIC BEER AND          LIQUOR.

16.ALL INTERNATIONAL BRAND NAME PERFUMES.

17.CRUDE OIL,PETROLEUM BY - PRODUCTS. 

18.MEAT PRODUCTS-CHICKEN/BEEF/PORK

WE ARE THANKING YOU IN ADVANCE FOR YOUR EARLY ATTENTION IN THIS REGARD.

BEST REGARDS,

LIONES ENTERPRISES
NO-30,SUNETHRADEVI ROAD,KOHUWALA, 
P.O.BOX-77 ,NUGEGODA,
SRI LANKA.
TEL   :0094 1 823464 (5 Lines)
FAX   :0094 1 823464
E.MAIL:anali@slt.lk   

****************************
We are following brand name Cigarettese and Beer manufacturer's Agent.
Details as follows:

CIGARETTES - ALL PRICES IN F.O.B.COLOMBO/SRI LANKA (USD.)
**********************************************************
ONE (01)CASE CONTAIN 10,000 STICKS
**********************************

1/MARLBORO - LIGHT/REGULER  
Origin:U.S.A.

2/MILD SEVEN -HARD PACK     
Origin:U.K. AND SWITZERLAND
 
3/DAVIDOFF -CLASSIC         
Origin:GERMANY

4/SUPER KING               
Origin:U.K.

5.REGAL KING SIZE           
Origin:U.K.

6.TEDLAPIDUS                
Origin:U.K.

7/ROTHMANS                  
Origin:U.K.

8/DUNHILL                   
Origin:U.K.

9/555 -REGULER/LIGHT        
Origin:U.K.

10/555 -INTERNATIONAL        
Origin:U.K. 

11.Camel,Winston,Salem and More Brand Cigarettes we can supply at the 
rate of USD.315.00

QUANTITY: 1 MASTER CASE = 10.000 Cigs
	  1 x 20' Container   = 430 Master cases
	  1 x 40' Container   = 920 Master cases

SHIPMENTS - 20' AND 40' FCL'S ONLY.

*************************
BEERS
*****

1.BARON'S BEER (MADE IN HOLLAND)
********************************
Packing :24 cans per shrink-wrapped tray
         2277 trays 24 x 330ml per 20'FCL
Quality :5% Vol.Alc.

2.MASTER BEER(MADE IN HOLLAND)
******************************
Packing :24 cans per shrink-wrapped tray
         2277 trays 24 x 330ml per 20'FCL
Quality :5% Vol.Alc.

3.HOLLANDIA BEER(MADE IN HOLLAND)
*********************************
Packing :24 cans per shrink-wrapped tray
         2277 trays 24 x 330ml per 20'FCL
Quality :5% Vol.Alc.

4.BAVARIA BEER(MADE IN HOLLAND)
*******************************
Packing :24 cans per shrink-wrapped tray
         2261 trays 24 x 330ml per 20'FCL
Quality :5% Vol.Alc.
 
5.ORANJEBOOM PREMIIM BEER(MADE IN HOLLAND)
******************************************
Packing :24 cans per shrink-wrapped tray
         2300 trays 24 x 330ml per 20'FCL
Quality :5% Vol.Alc.

6.REMBRANDT MASTERPIECR LAGER BEER(MADE IN HOLLAND)
***************************************************
Packing :24 cans per shrink-wrapped tray
         2300 trays 24 x 330ml per 20'FCL
Quality :5% Vol.Alc.

7.MELCHERS PREMIUM EXPORT PILSENER(MADE IN HOLLAND)
***************************************************
Packing :24 cans per shrink-wrapped tray
         2300 trays 24 x 330ml per 20'FCL
Quality :5% Vol.Alc.

8.VAN DELFT PREMIUM EXPORT PILSENER(MADE IN HOLLAND)
****************************************************
Packing :24 cans per shrink-wrapped tray
         2300 trays 24 x 330ml per 20'FCL
Quality :5% Vol.Alc.
  
9.HEINEKEN (GREEN LABEL)MADE IN HOLLAND
***************************************
Packing :24 cans per shrink-wrapped tray
         2300 trays 24 x 330ml per 20'FCL
Quality :5% Vol.Alc.
  
GENERAL TERMS AND CONDITION
***************************
SHIPMENTS - 20' or 40' FCL'S ONLY.

DELIVERY TIME :Received your L/c to our Bank arrange the shipment 
 
Further informations 
********************
ATLANTIC NAVIGATIONS LINES (PVT) LTD
NO-30,SUNETHRADEVI ROAD , KOHUWALA ,
NUGEGODA.COLOMBO.
SRI LANKA.
TEL: 0094-1-823464 (5 LINES)
FAX: 0094-1-823464
E.Mail: anali@slt.lk




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Steve Schear 
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 14:15:39 +0800
To: Frederick Burroughs 
Subject: Re: Stinger strike stagesetting
In-Reply-To: <368ADC62.EFC4A25C@shentel.net>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/enriched



There's a story in the Dec. 30, 1998 Washington Post about how US intelligence acquires foreign weapons technology. Specific mention is made about trading US Stinger missile know-how to China for whatever. My guess is the government's trying to set the stage to shift blame away from CIA for leaking antiaircraft missile technology, 1000 Stingers in the hands of Afghan rebels notwithstanding, and the aircraft disasters to come.

A Pakastani lecturer on NPR radio today (didn't catch his name) stated that one 'fallout' from the recent cruise missle attack of Ben Ladin's suspected Afgani lairs was a failed cruiser which landed in perfect working order in Pakastan. The Pakastanis consider this one of Allah's best recent gifts and their scientists are busy reverse engineering the bird.

--Steve




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Reeza! 
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 22:54:40 +0800
To: Bill Stewart 
Subject: Re: Wassenaar summary (and a funny new loophole)
In-Reply-To: <36701BB5.BB2D78CC@algroup.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981231000855.00991c10@205.83.192.13>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Unfortunately, the WA still sucks, flies in the face of common sense, and
only makes sense if orwellian, or huxleyan predictions of future societies
are being actualized, today. I'm afraid. I'm very afraid,,,

Reeza!

	Be very afraid, Barney has his own movie.

	Now, tubetubbies not only steal the young'uns minds, 
	but their lives as well,,,



At 01:17 AM 12/30/98 -0800, Bill Stewart wrote:
>Unfortunately, since Wassenaar is not the law, only an agreement
>by bureaucrats to make laws or regulations sort of like it if
>they can talk their pet legislatures into rubberstamping them,
>this doesn't help.  
>
>You can't take a bureaucrat to court and 
>insist that she rescind a regulation that was stronger than the 
>Minimum Daily Repression specified in the "Arrangement" -
>you can only insist on whatever your nation's constitution (if any)
>or fundamental rights document (if any) specifies, 
>or perhaps go to the World Court or some European Union or 
>European Community court and argue the case there.
>But most of these rights documents say things like
>"except for national security" and aren't very enforceable
>even if they do plainly state that your rights are stronger than that.
>
>>Ulf Möller wrote the following about mistakes in Wassenaar:
>>> Since the definition differentiates algorithms by symmetry rather than by
>>> their cryptographic properties, there is no restriction whatsoever on
>>> asymmetric secret-key encryption algorithms. Those algorithms typically
>>> are not based on factorization or discrete logarithms. That is, they are
>>> no longer controlled by the Wassenaar arrangement.
>
>At 07:06 PM 12/10/98 +0000, Ben Laurie wrote:
>>Hmm - so if I defined a new crytpo algorithm, SED3, say, that looks
likethis:
>>SED3(k,x)=3DES(backwards(k),x)
>>where backwards(k) is k with its bits written backwards, then the
>>3DES/SED3(k1,k2) combination is exportable (where k1 is related to k2,
>>of course, by k2=backwards(k1))?
>
>I assume you mean 3DESDecrypt(backwards(k),x) ?  It still doesn't work,
>because 3DESEncrypt is still symmetric with 3DESDecrypt,
>and SED3Decrypt is still symmetric with 3DESEncrypt(backwards(k),x).
>But you could still come up with something that meets the
>letter of the non-law, just for the fun of tweaking them.
>
>I think it's more realistic to go for the various
>General Software Exemptions and Public Domain Exemptions,
>and generally lobby legislatures to slow down on implementing Bad Things,
>and let them see there's money to be made for their countries' 
>local businesses by not cooperating.  
>
>A potentially valuable change to go for would be to allow 
>export between members of the Wassenaar, or the EC, or whatever.
>After all, the whole purpose of the COCOM that Wassenaar grew out of
>was to keep Commies from getting militarily valuable technology,
>and now that there aren't any Commies (unless you count the Chinese or
Cubans)
>and they've let the Russians into Wassenaar, the whole thing's
>prima facie stupid anyway.
>
>				Thanks! 
>					Bill
>Bill Stewart, bill.stewart@pobox.com
>PGP Fingerprint D454 E202 CBC8 40BF  3C85 B884 0ABE 4639
>
>
>




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Kevlar 
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 18:32:15 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: True Random Numbers
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19981231021342.007e9300@max-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Several months ago, someone was talking about "True random numbers" and how
to obtain them, and I (rather ignorantly) suggested they run a recorded
sound through a program to record a 1 for every peak of volume over a
certian threshold , and a 0 for every thing quieter.(I think i suggested a
russeling tree, or a waterfall) Just adjust the threshold according to the
volume of your sampling. (it was clear in my mind, even if I can't explain
it here)

Little did I know...

Read phrack 54.5.
-Kevlar


Does God know Peano Algebra? Or does she not care if strong atheists
couldnt reason their way out of a trap made of Boolean presumptions?

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing, but zero knowlege is
absolutely subversive.

Overspecialization breeds in weakness. It's a slow death.

Beat your algorithms into swords, your dumb terminals into shields, and
turn virtual machines into battlefields... Let the weak say, "I am strong"
and question authority. 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: John Young 
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 20:07:04 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com
Subject: BXA Crypto Rule
Message-ID: <199812311134.GAA29796@smtp0.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



BXA has issued today an interim rule on encryption items
which implements the administration's September export
policy announcement, and requests comments:

   http://jya.com/bxa123198.txt  (79K)






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Alan Davidson 
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 21:39:37 +0800
To: John Young 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Here is CDT's statement on the new regs. They should be available in the
Federal Register this morning.

Happy Holidays to all. Here's hoping for some real relief in 1999.

	  -- Alan

Alan Davidson, Staff Counsel                 202.637.9800 (v)
Center for Democracy and Technology          202.637.0968 (f)
1634 Eye St. NW, Suite 1100                  
Washington, DC 20006                         PGP key via finger


December 30, 1998

New Encryption Regs Fail To Change Debate

The U.S. government is expected to publish new encryption export
regulations in the Federal Register tomorrow that once again grant only
limited relief for encryption exports. The new regulations implement the
policy announcement on encryption made by the White House last September.
While providing welcome incremental relief allowing export of 56-bit
encryption, and stronger products to certain industry sectors, the
Administration's latest liberalization effort leaves individual privacy at
risk and fails to resolve the broader issues surrounding U.S. encryption
policy.

"These latest encryption regulations are like rearranging the deck chairs
on the Titanic," said CDT Staff Counsel Alan Davidson. "While any export
relief is welcome, the U.S. government continues to embrace a failed
encryption policy based on export controls and backdoor plaintext access
features that threaten privacy and prevent people from protecting
themselves online. Today's announcement does little to change the broader
policy debate over how to give people the security tools they need to
protect their privacy in the Information Age.  We expect to continue the
policy debate, and the push for sensible encryption legislation, in
Congress next year."

Major features of the September White House policy, implemented in the new
regulations, include:
* Decontrol of 56-bit DES products or equivalent (hardware and software)
* Export of higher strength products for:
  * Subsidiaries of U.S. firms
  * Sectoral relief allowing export of strong encryption products to
    insurance companies and health and medical organizations
  * Limited relief allowing export of strong encryption products to online
    merchants for certain electronic commerce server applications only.
  * License exceptions allowing export of strong encryption product if they
    contain "recovery" or other "plaintext access" features (such as "private
    doorbells") that allow law enforcement access to plaintext without the
    notice or consent of the end user.

While CDT welcomes efforts by the Administration to grant greater export
relief, the new regulations leave privacy and security concerns unresolved,
particularly for individuals. These include:

* 56-bit DES is Not Strong Enough -- Expert cryptographers have argued for
years that 56-bit encryption is not sufficient to protect privacy online.
Just last summer, a group of California researchers created a "DES Cracker"
that broke a 56-bit length encrypted message in just 56 hours, using
minimal resources. RSA, the data security company, just this week offering
a new prize to anyone who can crack DES in one day. The new Administration
policy prohibits the export of far stronger 128-bit encryption products
that are becoming the world standard for security.

* Individual End-Users are Left Vulnerable -- While the relief offered for
particular industry sectors is welcome, individuals seeking to encrypt
securely abroad face are left vulnerable. The new policy begs the
questions: When do everyday computer users get encryption relief?

* U.S Policy Continues Push for Key Recovery and "Plaintext Access" -- The new
policy continues to push for adoption of key recovery and other plaintext
access products, granting broad relief for products "that, when activated,
allow[] recovery of the plaintext of encrypted data without the assistance
of the end user." Such access systems create new vulnerable backdoors,
jeopardizing personal privacy and creating security concerns where none
need exist. (See "The Risks of Key Recovery, Key Escrow, and Trusted Third
Party Encryption" experts report, available at
http://www.crypto.com/key_study.)

CDT remains committed to seeking broad relief from export controls and to
promoting the freedom of people to use whatever encryption tools they need
to protect their privacy online. For more information on this or other
encryption policy and Internet civil liberties issues, please contact Alan
Davidson or Ari Schwartz at CDT, (202) 637-9800.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bill payne 
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 01:20:07 +0800
To: abd@CDT.ORG
Subject: Learning experience
Message-ID: <368BAB83.6D30@nmol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

Thursday 12/31/98 9:49 AM

John Young

I did the first update this morning.

I wonder how many rows one gets in a table until the system bombs?

The Great Satan tries to bury its dissident citizens in its
hidden SECRET cemetery.

We will try to fix this problem.

bill

Title: pro se(Page 2)






      


  
    Pro Se [for youself] Litigation with the US Government
  
  
    Click 
    12/29/1998 -          
                           
                          
             
    Date
  
  
    TenFrap40
    Legal manuvering- Fed. R. App. P. 40. Petition for
      Rehearing
    12/31/1998
  
  
    foia3a47.txt
    Payne and Morales NSA lawsuitLetter accompanying Tenth Circuit ruling
       
    12/31/1998
  
  
    foia3a46.txt
    Payne and Morales NSA lawsuit Tenth Circuit Rule 54(b) ruling
    12/31/1998
  
  
    foia3a44.txt
    Payne and Morales address US Government lien
    12/31/1998
  
  
    foia3a43.txt
    Payne and Morales NSA lawsuit STATEMENT OF RULE
      54(b) CERTIFICATION
    12/31/1998
  
  
    bur13.txt 
    Payne exhausts administrative remedies at EEOC
    12/29/1998
  
  
    pena7.txt
    Payne exhausts administrative remedies at DOE
    12/29/1998
  
  
    jya.com
    This is a link to John Young's Cryptome web site
    12/29/1998
  






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 23:31:47 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: DCSB Call for Speakers
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 09:51:21 -0500
To: dcsb@ai.mit.edu, dcsb-announce@ai.mit.edu
From: Robert Hettinga 
Subject: DCSB Call for Speakers
Sender: bounce-dcsb@ai.mit.edu
Reply-To: Robert Hettinga 

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----


The Program Committee of the Digital Commerce Society invites any member of
the dcsb mailing lists to submit their proposal for a luncheon talk to the
Society.

Speakers can be any *principal* in any field of digital commerce. That means
anyone who is doing interesting research or development in, or who is making
significant market innovation in, the technology, finance, economics, law,
or policy of commerce on the global public internetwork.

The Committee tends to consider the person giving the talk first, and then
gives the speaker lots of discretion in the content of their talk -- as long
as it pertains to DCSB's charter to promote innovation in internet commerce.


The Society's meetings are held on the first Tuesday of the month at the
Downtown Branch of the Harvard Club of Boston, One Federal Street,
Thirty-Eighth Floor, in Boston, from 12 to 2 in the afternoon.

Unfortunately, the Society can not remunerate a speaker for any fees or
expenses other than, obviously, the speaker's lunch, and basic overhead
projection equipment. There is dial-up internet access for the meeting room.

If you, or anyone you know, are interested in speaking to the society,
please send, via email, a proposal, consisting of a single paragraph on the
speaker, and a single paragraph on the proposed talk, to Robert Hettinga
, the chairman of the DCSB Program Committee,
and the Society's Moderator.

A list of previous speakers can be obtained with the following URL
, or, if your
mailreader/browser doesn't support mailtos,

send

info dcsb

in the *body* of a message to majordomo@ai.mit.edu .

Thank you for considering DCSB in your speaking plans, and, if you have any
questions on your submission, please contact me directly.

Cordially,
Robert A. Hettinga
Moderator and Program Committee Chair,
The Digital Commerce Society of Boston

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.5.5

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-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"The direct use of physical force is so poor a solution to the problem of
limited resources that it is commonly employed only by small children and
great nations." -- David Friedman, _The_Machinery_of_Freedom_


For help on using this list (especially unsubscribing), send a message to
"dcsb-request@ai.mit.edu" with one line of text: "help".

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Trei, Peter" 
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 01:34:21 +0800
To: "'Jim Choate'" 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Jim Choate [SMTP:ravage@EINSTEIN.ssz.com]
> Sent:	Thursday, December 24, 1998 4:43 PM
> To:	cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
> Subject:	Norway - go to jail for naming baby illegal [CNN]
> 
> Forwarded message:
> 
> > X-within-URL:
> http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/europe/9812/23/BC-Norway-NameLaws.ap/
> 
> > Mother of 14 jailed for violating Norway's baby-name law
> > 
> >    December 23, 1998
> >    Web posted at: 9:52 AM EST (1452 GMT)
> >    
> >    
> >    OSLO, Norway (AP) -- A mother of 14 was jailed this week because she
> >    refused to change the name she picked for her young son, even though
> >    that violated Norway's name law.
> >    
> >    Kirsti Larsen, 46, told the Verdens Gang newspaper that she named her
> >    son Gesher after she dreamed the child should be named "bridge."
> >    Gesher means bridge in Hebrew.
> >    
> >    Norway has strict laws regulating names, including lists of
> acceptable
> >    first and last names. In 1995, Larsen tried to register her son's
> name
> >    as Gesher at her local county office, which rejected the choice as
> >    illegal.
> 
> [text deleted]
> 
	[Trei, Peter]  
	This is the case in many countries - Germany and
	France for two.

	In Iceland, immigrants are required to change their
	names to Norse ones as part of the citizenship
	process.

	Peter Trei




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Stewart, William C (Bill), BNSVC" 
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 03:05:20 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: FWD: Boston Globe on International Net Threats
Message-ID: <25683280FF49D2119B480000C0AD5900A02B25@mo3980po13.ems.att.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





The Boston Globe
December 28, 1998
Pg. A1
Nations strive to limit freedom of the Internet 
By David L. Marcus, Globe Staff


WASHINGTON - As promised, the Internet is turning into an unstoppable 
geyser of information, a source of data, news and opinions that flow freely 
around the world.
Except in China, which blocks access to sites about Tibet, Taiwan, 
democratic movements and dissident groups.
Except in Saudi Arabia, which censors sites critical of the royal family.
Except in Germany, where a judge sentenced a CompuServe manager to two 
years in prison for allowing access to pornography.
Except in Cuba, which has seized laptop computers from dissidents as 
"subversive instruments."
In short, despite grand promises, the Internet is not yet an 
unrestricted electronic village green for the world. The more information 
that becomes available, the more governments try to stanch the flow with 
new filtering technologies or strict limits on who can use computers. 
Democracies as well as dictatorships are cracking down on sites that are 
found to be too dangerous, too lurid, or too controversial.
"The restrictions are coming fast and furious," said Barry Steinhardt, 
chairman of the Electronic Frontier Foundation, an advocacy group based in 
San Francisco, and head of the American Civil Liberties Union's task force 
on cyber-liberties. "The Internet is very frightening to many governments 
because it's an inherently democratic medium, so the first reaction is to 
reach out and control it."
At least 20 countries restrict access to Internet sites, from Bahrain, 
which bans electronic versions of Playboy magazine and home pages that the 
government says are pornographic, to Singapore, where the Ministry of 
Information and the Arts keeps out sexually explicit material and news 
critical of the government.
More than a dozen other countries are considering restrictions. The 
European Union, for example, is weighing proposals to ban child pornography 
and xenophobic materials. In Germany, freedom-of-speech advocates are 
outraged by a judge's decision in May to sentence the CompuServe official 
to jail (the judge suspended the sentence).
The United States, too, is trying to restrict the Internet. A 1996 law, 
the Communications Decency Act, criminalized on-line communcations that 
were "obscene, lewd, lascivious, filthy or indecent, with intent to annoy, 
abuse, threaten or harass another person." Under that definition, 
independent counsel Kenneth W. Starr's report to Congress on President 
Clinton probably would have been banned from the Net. The Supreme Court 
struck down the law, but another aimed at sites harmful to children is 
supposed to take effect next year.
A growing number of civil liberties groups - such as Global Internet 
Liberty Campaign, Digital Freedom Network, Internet Freedom, OpenNet, and 
Britain's Cyber-Rights and Cyber-Liberties - vehemently oppose restrictions 
on the Internet.
But many specialists argue that the issue is more complex. Shouldn't 
Germany have the right to restrict false and provocative Nazi propaganda? 
Shouldn't American states have the right to stop electronic dissemination 

of step-by-step instructions on assembling a car bomb? And why should any 
government allow child pornography to proliferate?
"In all countries, you will find people who argue that certain things 
should not be available to other people," said David Webster, chairman of 
the Transatlantic Dialogue on Broadcasting and the Information Society, a 
group that includes private industry and government. "No politician gets up 
and says: 'I think the availability of pedophilia material is concomitant 
to liberty.' He'll lose his seat."
The impulse to restrict access has been highlighted this month in 
China, where the government is holding its first trial of a 
"cyber-dissident." Lin Hai, a 30-year-old software engineer, is charged 
with inciting subversion by providing 30,000 Chinese e-mail addresses to a 
dissident group in Washington.
Lin, who says he is innocent, faces a maximum penalty of life in 
prison. Lawyers who follow China's one-sided judicial system say he is 
likely to be convicted.
In Shanghai, a physicist named Wang Youcai, who registered an 
independent political party, was sentenced to 11 years in prison. His 
crime: communicating with democracy activists inside and outside of China. 
As President Jiang Zemin cracks down on dissent, other cyber-sedition 
trials are likely in 1999.
Less dramatic but just as important, China's day-to-day censorship of 
the Internet affects scores of groups. The International Campaign for 
Tibet, for instance, often receives reports that the Chinese government has 
blocked access to its web site, said communications director Teresa 
Perrone. But she added that enterprising scholars in China often find ways 
to circumvent the censors and look at the group's information.
Several groups report that when the government blocks sites, the 
information still reaches Chinese via e-mail, bulletin boards, chat rooms, 
web sites with code words that filters cannot detect and a variety of 
creative ways.
"China may be the extreme case because they attempted to up a pretty 
impervious wall around the Internet," said Adam Clayton Powell III, vice 
president of the Freedom Forum, which advocates unrestricted media. 
"However, because China wants to be a world economic power they need 
high-speed,
real-time, financial information." Financial reports from services such as 
Dow Jones or Reuters often contain political news.
For every new restriction on the Net, there are new ways to get around 
it, said Vint Cerf, senior vice president for Internet architecture and 
technology at MCI-Worldcom. "It just isn't possible," to keep things away 
from Net viewers, he said.
But Jonathan Zittrain, executive director of the Berkman Center for 
Internet and Society at Harvard Law School, said improved technology will 
make it easier to keep track of who is looking at the Net and to restrict 
what is seen. "China has fairly crude tools for filtering, but my 
prediction is the Internet of 2000 is one that China will have less 
difficulty in regulating," he said.
Some countries that have sampled the Internet have found it 
distasteful. Last year, Vietnam decided to allow the public to use Internet 

services. But 10 days ago, the Communist Party decided to set up a 
committee to consider restrictions as a way of "correcting mistakes and 
bias," the Liberated Saigon newspaper reported.
"The stronger the central government, the more conservative they are in 
terms of allowing political information on the Internet," said Grey 
Burkhart, a retired communications expert from the Navy reserve who helps 
international groups get access to technology.
Burkhart has taken a special interest in developing countries, 
including Russia, Bosnia, and Syria. It isn't easy. Despite the 
government's pledges to open Syria, the country still has no Internet 
service provider. To access the Internet, computer users have to make 
long-distance calls to Lebanon and other countries. Syrians aren't allowed 
to have cellular telephones, which are considered a security risk.
This year, however, Syria allowed computer modems to be installed and 
an Internet service is promised.
The most restrictive countries, including Iraq, North Korea and Cuba, 
are those that control all forms of media, not just the Internet. In 
Havana's airport, several laptops carried in by passengers and intended for 
dissident groups have been seized in the last couple of years, said Frank 
Calzon, executive director of the Center for a Free Cuba.
Police even took a $150 electronic typewriter from a dissident becaue 
it was "an instrument of high-tech subversion," Calzon said.
Surprisingly, Latin America, which has a tradition of censorship, has 
been quite open to the Internet. Pedro Armendariz, the director of 
Investigative Editors and Reporters in Mexico, a non-profit group, has 
traveled to conferences in Brazil, Argentina, Colombia, Peru and throughout 
Mexico. Outside of Cuba, he has found no restrictions on the Net, other 
than the expense of service and unreliable telephone lines.
"I would dare to say that far from having serious restrictions in Latin 
America, we have a problem with sorting through so many things on the Net 
and discriminating about what is useful and what is garbage," Armendariz 
said.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Alan Tu 
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 02:44:07 +0800
To: Cypher Punks Mailing List 
Subject: un-erata
Message-ID: <199812311318_MC2-651F-AFC3@compuserve.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



The URL in the README.!ST file in the package is correct, thanks to Ralf.

Alan
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" 
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 07:03:52 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: critique of capitalism/moore
Message-ID: <199812312229.OAA04038@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




------- Forwarded Message

Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 13:04:29 -0500
From: "Mark A. Smith" 
To: Mark 
Subject: SNET: Police State Conspiracy - An Indictment (Conclusions)


- ->  SNETNEWS  Mailing List

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- --------------5E5047714EA
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

http://www.newdawnmagazine.com.au/51b.htm

- --------------5E5047714EA
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                         THE POLICE STATE CONSPIRACY
                              =97 an INDICTMENT =97
                                   [Image]

                              By RICHARD MOORE

                             [CLOSING ARGUMENTS]

                 Presented before the GRAND JURY of LIBERTY

                        On this FOURTH DAY of HEARING

                           The PEOPLE v NWO Et Al

     Defendant 1 - NWO ("Corporate Globalist Elite")

     Defendant 2 - MEDIA ("Corporate Mass Media")

     Defendant 3 - GOVT ("National Government Leadership")

     Defendant 4 - INTELCOM ("Intelligence Community")

     Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, in the first three days of this
     hearing we have seen how the infrastructures of a police state
     are being established in the United States. Civil liberty
     protections have been systematically dismantled; conspiracy laws
     permit the conviction of people not involved in crimes; police
     forces are being paramilitarised; longer sentences are being
     given for minor offences; prison populations are growing
     dramatically. We have seen how factionalism is being promoted in
     order to divide society against itself; we have seen how the
     evidence shows that dramatic incidents, such as the World Trade
     Centre and Oklahoma Federal Building bombings, have been covertly
     and intentionally staged in order to avoid debate in the
     implementation of police-state measures.

     Today, in these closing arguments, we will examine two points.
     First, we will review the background of the NWO capitalist elite
     in order to understand why political suppression via police-state
     measures is an inevitable necessity for them. Second, we will
     review recent developments in Ireland, to show how police-state
     measures which took years to justify politically in the US are
     being exported wholesale to other Western countries.

     1. Capitalism and the Necessity of Police States in the West

     The religion of the NWO elite is capitalism, and the root of most
     of the problems of the world today, including the development of
     police states in the West, can be traced to the dynamics of
     capitalism. The dictionary definition of "capitalist" begins:

     "An investor of capital in business..."

     What distinguishes capitalism from earlier forms of private
     commerce and trade is the emphasis on external capital investment
     =97 funds which are invested in an enterprise for the purpose of
     increasing the value of the investment. In particular capitalism
     is characterised by stock corporations, where ownership shares in
     a business can be bought and sold.

     Stockholders are technically the owners of an enterprise, but the
     interests of stockholders are not the same as the interests of an
     owner who also operates an enterprise. An owner-operator is
     concerned with operating a healthy business and developing it
     over time. He or she might be interested in growing the business,
     or might just as well be happy for it to stabilise at some
     manageable size and then bring in a stable ongoing profit. But a
     capitalist, an external investor, is interested solely in the
     growth of the business, which is what increases the value of the
     stock investment. A stable business translates into stagnant
     stock values; a business which is merely profitable is not a good
     place for capital investment.

     One can compare a corporation =97 or any investment vehicle =97 to a
     taxicab, and an investor to a rider. The operator of a taxicab is
     concerned with keeping the vehicle in good repair and making a
     regular profit over time. A rider, on the other hand, is only
     concerned with his own use of the vehicle. If the rider gets to
     his destination on time, he has little concern over whether the
     vehicle is damaged in the process. Similarly a capital investor
     uses an investment vehicle. Only a period of growth is required
     by the investor. If the vehicle then falters, investors simply
     sell their shares and reinvest elsewhere. The history of
     capitalism is indeed strewn with the carcasses of boom-and-bust
     corporations, industries, and whole economies.

     In a capitalist economy there is a pool of capital =97 the sum of
     all the money investors are making available. Just as water seeks
     its own level, so this ever-growing capital pool always seeks the
     best available growth opportunities. And just as water over time
     can wear down the highest mountain, so the relentless pressure of
     this growth-seeking capital pool eventually creates an economy
     and society in which growth is the dominant agenda. External
     ownership =97 the separation of ownership from operation =97 is the
     origin of the growth imperative in a capitalist economy.

     The evolution of capitalism proceeds according to the following
     dynamic. In each phase of its development capitalism operates
     within a larger societal regime =97 a particular political,
     cultural, technological, and economic environment. Within this
     regime, under the relentless pressure of the investment pool, the
     various investment vehicles are exploited to the maximum
     practical degree. There always comes a point where further growth
     of the pool becomes problematic or impossible. When such a
     societal growth barrier is encountered, the creative energy of
     capitalism is unleashed on a new objective: changing the
     surrounding societal regime.

     There is thus a characteristic rhythm to capitalist evolution.
     Periods of growth within a regime are punctuated by changes of
     regime designed to create a new period of growth. A new societal
     regime might be characterised by technological changes (the
     Industrial Revolution), by political changes (creation of
     republics), or by new societal projects (imperialism.) Driven by
     its relentless growth imperative, capitalism has become the
     driving force behind societal evolution wherever it has taken
     hold.

     Apologists for capitalism call such societal changes "progress"
     and emphasise whatever real or imagined beneficial qualities
     might be present. In fact such changes have been designed by
     human creativity yoked to the objective not of societal
     improvement, but to that of creating new investment vehicles for
     the ever-voracious capital pool. In fact the intentional
     destruction of societies and economies, particularly but not only
     in colonised nations, has been a technique frequently employed to
     create new investment vehicles.

     One of the most important and characteristic societal
     developments brought about by capitalism is the rise of
     capitalist elite oligarchies. Given that the evolution of
     capitalism proceeds through an ongoing series of intentional
     societal changes, it is only natural that the mechanisms of
     societal control would themselves evolve over time and eventually
     be consolidated into political domination by a capitalist elite.

          People of the same trade seldom meet together... but
          the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the
          public, or in some contrivance to raise prices.
          =97 Adam Smith, Wealth of Nations

     In every society where capitalism has taken hold, a dominant
     capitalist oligarchy has in fact emerged, along with the
     establishment of institutions designed to further elite interests
     in a systematic way. Today, the United States itself has become a
     vehicle for managing world events so as to facilitate investment,
     to make the world safe for capitalism. Transnational corporations
     (TNC=92s) have evolved into gigantic engines for generating capital
     growth, and TNC-dominated bureaucracies (International Monetary
     Fund (IMF), World Trade Organisation, et al) are being given
     global decision-making power over a wide range of issues, loosely
     called economic =97 and those institutions are rapidly becoming in
     all but name a world government.

     Global capitalism today is coming up against several constraints,
     and globalisation, in its full NWO dimensionality, can be seen as
     the creative attempt by very competent, corporate-funded planners
     to overcome those constraints. One of the constraints comes from
     the very global success of capitalism =97 there is no longer any
     possibility of growth through territorial expansion. Other means
     of growth =97 and many have been perfected over the years =97 must b=
e
     deployed.

     In Southeast Asia, in Africa, and in the former Soviet Union, the
     policies of Western finance capital and of its tool, the IMF,
     have created capital-growth vehicles through the intentional
     destruction of once healthy economies. In South Korea, for
     example, Western over-investment was followed by the sudden
     withdrawal of funds and credit. Thus a financial bubble was
     created, and when it burst the South Korean currency was
     destroyed and the national finances were depleted.

     In desperate need of finance, South Korea was forced to turn to
     the IMF. The IMF then came forward with one of its infamous
     "restructuring" programs which in truth should be called
     "demolition" programs. Sound businesses that had been thriving
     only weeks before were forced into bankruptcy; South Korea was
     forced to change its social and labour policies from top to
     bottom; the systems were dismantled which had been responsible
     for South Korea=92s postwar economic success.

     These so-called IMF "reforms" which were forced on South Korea
     had nothing to do with the causes of the financial collapse. Not
     only that, but the IMF "rescue funds" did not go to South Korea
     at all, but were rather used to repay the external investors
     whose market manipulations had caused the collapse. While Western
     taxpayers fund the IMF, and Southeast Asian (and other)
     populations suffer the consequences of IMF policies, it is
     Western capital that reaps all the benefits.

     What were the benefits reaped by Western capital? To begin with,
     the IMF bailout of the investors means that Western capital was
     first able to profit from the decades of South Korean growth, but
     was then protected when the bubble burst. Global capitalism has
     been called "casino capitalism", and the IMF makes sure that the
     big players cannot lose in this game, no matter which cards turn
     up.

     But that was only the beginning. To understand the primary
     benefit derived from destroying the South Korean economy, we must
     note that capitalism is currently suffering from what is called a
     "crisis of over-production". The efficiency and size of TNC
     producers have evolved to the degree where much more can be
     produced than can possibly be consumed. In automobiles,
     electronics, and many other industries there are simply too many
     producers chasing too few consumers.

     Interventions such as in South Korea and the former Soviet Union
     have become a systematic mechanism to selectively cull global
     competitors, thus creating growth room for those that remain. In
     addition, the assets and productive capacity of the victims have
     been made available at bargain prices for purchase by Western
     interests.

     This selective destruction of economies is a "regime change" in
     the global society, designed to create growth vehicles for the
     Western capital pool. Elimination of producers creates growth
     room in the global economy for Western operators; bargain
     purchase of assets increases monopoly concentration of global
     commerce in Western hands; destabilised societies are forced to
     import what they formerly produced for themselves, further
     increasing Western capital-growth opportunities.

     One of the myths of globalisation is that it represents a
     relative decline of Western interests, that market forces will
     allow other regions to make inroads against traditional Western
     domination. With the postwar economic rise of Japan and later
     Southeast Asia, this myth in fact gained considerable
     credibility. But as the postwar boom began to level out, and a
     new regime of growth became necessary, it has become clear that
     the global capital elite remains primarily a Western elite. The
     IMF is in fact dominated primarily by Western-based interests,
     and its power has been used to selectively cull non-Western
     operators.

     While the IMF culls competitors using the power of the purse
     strings, the US and NATO accomplish the same objective in other
     ways. In the case of the petroleum market, where limiting supply
     is crucial to maintaining desired global oil prices, geopolitical
     machinations have been employed to restrict at various times the
     production of Iran, Iraq, Libya, and others. By encouraging the
     split-up of Yugoslavia, which competed in several world markets
     including automobile production, additional culling was
     accomplished.

     As capitalism enters its global era, it is doing so under the
     control of the Western capitalist elite. This elite dominates the
     leading Western nations politically, even more firmly controls
     the foreign policies of those nations, and totally controls the
     policies of the IMF, the World Bank, and the other institutions
     of the global governmental apparatus. All the potent agencies
     which determine the course of global societal evolution are
     firmly in the control of the Western elite.

     But in another sense the decline of the West is not myth but
     reality. Western elites remain in firm control and continue to
     prosper under globalisation, but Western societies are in fact in
     decline =97 economically, culturally, and politically. This decline
     is intentional, planned and implemented by the capitalist elite
     as a societal change designed, as always, to create growth
     vehicles for the capital pool.

     This particular episode of Western societal engineering is called
     the "neoliberal revolution" and it was formally launched with the
     candidacies of Ronald Reagan in the US and Margaret Thatcher in
     the UK, and with the adoption of the Maastricht Treaty in Europe.
     The agenda of the neoliberal revolution is summed up in the
     all-too-familiar mantra "free trade, deregulation, privatisation,
     and reform". The true meaning of this agenda can be easily found
     by analysing each transaction in terms of its consequences for
     capital growth.

     Free trade, whose practical definition must be inferred from the
     terms of the international free-trade agreements, in fact means
     the elimination of national sovereignty over the flow of capital
     and goods. The consequence is that TNC=92s have more flexibility in
     optimising production and distribution, and in exploiting the
     opportunities created by the culling of competitors. This
     flexibility is the growth vehicle provided by the free-trade
     plank of the neoliberal platform.

     Deregulation refers to the elimination of national sovereignty
     over corporate concentration, capital movement, corporate
     operations, pricing, and product standards. Again the benefit is
     clear. Greater freedom in concentrating ownership, shifting
     capital, operating without environmental or other restraints,
     raising prices, and reducing standards =97 these all provide
     vehicles for growth in this neoliberal phase of capitalism in
     Western economies.

     Privatisation refers to the sale of national assets to corporate
     operators and the transfer of control over national
     infrastructures to those operators. Each such transfer creates an
     immediate growth vehicle for capital, in the exploitation of the
     asset and the infrastructure. In addition the transfers have been
     in fact sweetheart deals where negotiators on both sides of the
     transactions have represented the interests of the same
     capitalist elite. Asset values have been heavily discounted,
     through various tried-and-true trickeries of accounting, and the
     "sales" have in fact represented immediate transfers of wealth
     from public ownership directly into corporate coffers. The sale
     transactions themselves are growth vehicles.

     Reform, besides referring to generic compliance with the
     neoliberal agenda, also means reducing the taxes of corporations
     and the wealthy, eliminating social services, and generally
     cutting back the functions of government. Obviously these tax
     changes serve to grow the capital pool. The elimination of social
     services also serves as a growth vehicle in two ways. Workers
     become hungrier for employment, creating a downward pressure on
     wages. New enterprises can be started in order to provide the
     services formerly provided by government (medical care,
     insurance, etc).

     The general cutting back of government functions is simply part
     of the sovereignty transfer from national governments to the
     centralised regime of global institutions. As power and
     administration is concentrated globally, the role of national
     governments is being reduced and refocused. As has been long true
     of governments in much of the Third World, the role of Western
     governments is devolving toward three major functions: conforming
     to the dictates of the global regime, making payments on the
     national debt, and controlling the domestic population. The
     paramilitarisation of police forces, the rise in prison
     populations, and the extension of police powers are very
     necessary societal changes required to enable the full
     implementation of the neoliberal agenda.

     It is no accident that in the USA, where the neoliberal agenda
     has been most thoroughly implemented, the collateral police-state
     apparatus is also most thoroughly deployed. SWAT teams, midnight
     raids, property confiscations, mandatory and draconian
     sentencing, a booming prison-construction industry, increased
     surveillance and monitoring of individuals and organisations =97
     these are all an increasing part of the American scene.
     Government officials have stated that Americans must expect even
     more dramatic security measures, and that military vehicles and
     weapons can be expected in domestic situations where warranted by
     security concerns.

     The neoliberal agenda in fact amounts to the dismantlement of
     Western societies, undoing what was in some sense many decades of
     social progress. Although the dominant global elite remains based
     in the West, strong Western societies are no longer required
     under the global regime, as they were in the era of competitive
     nationalism. Just as the IMF devastates non-Western societies in
     ways that provide growth vehicles, so the neoliberal revolution
     devastates Western societies for the same purpose, if at a
     somewhat more gradual pace. Police-state regimes, whether or not
     acknowledged by that name, are an inevitable necessity if Western
     nations are to be kept in line as the neoliberal dismantlement,
     which is still in its early days, continues to unfold.

     2. Exporting the Police State: Ireland and the Omagh Bombing

     I=92ve been living in the UK and Ireland for over four years. I=92ve
     been observing the peace process and the tactics of the various
     sides, including several Irish Republican Army (IRA) bombings.
     While by no means condoning violent methods, I have been
     nonetheless impressed by the care that went into the planning and
     execution of most of the IRA=92s operations.

     Huge bombs were set off in London, in the heart of the financial
     district and at the Docksides complex, causing immense property
     damage and embarrassment to British officials, with surprisingly
     little injury or loss of life. Without approving of violence, one
     can still acknowledge that the IRA has, at least in recent years,
     been politically astute in their (nonetheless unjustifiable)
     operations.

     The Omagh bombing was totally out of character; it made no sense
     whatsoever within the political context of Northern Ireland and
     the progress of the peace process. Certainly there are dissident
     elements who aren=92t satisfied with the compromises that have been
     reached, but accommodations have been made to all sides, and the
     overwhelming spirit in both North and South is to reach a
     settlement and put the "troubles behind us".

     The Omagh bombing was the most deadly of the entire 30-year
     "troubles". It was out of character not only by its timing, but
     also in terms of its scale. My first response on hearing of it
     was "Where did this come from?" It seemed to have come from out
     of the blue, totally unrelated to the Irish context. It felt like
     one of the "staged dramatic incidents" that we reviewed in the
     previous instalment of this Indictment (see New Dawn No. 48).
     Suspicious, I waited for the other shoe to drop.

     I didn=92t have to wait long. The headline on page seven of the
     Irish Times for September 1st reads: "Harsh measures =91regrettably
     necessary=92 to fight terrorism." Here we read of a fourteen-point
     anti-terrorism bill that is, in its essentials, copied directly
     from the police-state provisions that have been adopted in
     varying degrees by the US and Britain.

     A suspect who refuses to answer questions, can have his silence
     used against him. The silence itself can be "inferred" as being
     corroborating evidence against the suspect. The right to trial by
     jury becomes little more than a sham: if the suspect doesn=92t
     confess all, he either opens himself to perjury (by lying) or
     else builds, through silence, an "inferred" case against himself.

     The validity of trial by jury is further undermined by a another
     provision, which requires the defense to announce to the
     prosecution, in advance of a trial, all witnesses it is going to
     call. Thus the prosecution is armed in advance with the strategy
     of the defense, much to its advantage. And witnesses are exposed
     to possible harassment leading up to the trial, the fear of which
     could have a chilling effect on their willingness to testify.

     As if that weren=92t enough, a suspect is expected to divulge,
     under police questioning, every bit of evidence that he might
     rely on in his defense. Otherwise "inferences" can be drawn. The
     very vagueness of "inferences" still further extends the power of
     the state over that of the accused in what has become a mockery
     of a criminal trial.

     The "conduct" of an accused =97 by which he can be judged guilty =97
     is re-defined to include "movements, activities, actions or
     associations". The critical word here is "associations". If you
     can be proved to be a member of an organisation, and if that
     organisation engages in illegal acts, then your mere association
     makes you to some degree a party to the acts. This provision
     establishes in Ireland what in the US are known as conspiracy
     laws. Such laws, in conjunction with agent provocateurs, can be
     used to suppress popular organisations which legitimately and
     legally oppose government policies.

     Just as the US President, under police-state provisions, can
     declare any organisation to be a "terrorist organisation", so can
     the Irish government "suppress" any organisation under the 1939
     "Offences Against the State" act. The new "regrettable measures"
     of the anti-terrorism bill extend considerably the power of the
     state to succeed in suppressing any organisation it decides it
     doesn=92t like.

     Under the charge of "directing an unlawful organisation", one can
     receive life imprisonment. "Directing", it turns out, means
     directing the activities of the organisation "at any level".
     Thus, if an organisation has been officially "suppressed", all of
     its leaders down to the precinct level can be rounded up and put
     in prison with the key thrown away =97 simply for being leaders,
     and even if the organisation is engaged in no illegal activity.

     Under the charge of "unlawful collection of information" one can
     be imprisoned for up to 10 years. If you have maps and lists of
     people, perhaps to support political organising, and the
     prosecutor says you were planning a terrorist network, it is up
     to you to prove he=92s wrong. Again trial by jury is made a
     mockery. Instead of the state proving its case beyond a
     reasonable doubt, it is up to the accused to prove they aren=92t
     guilty.

     During thirty years of troubles such anti-terrorist provisions
     were not considered necessary. Then on the very eve of final
     settlement a mysterious, uncharacteristic "incident" occurs in
     Omagh, and with suspicious suddenness the Irish government comes
     up with an anti-terrorism bill which mimics the "latest
     developments" in the police-state provisions of the US and
     Britain.

     The parallels between the Oklahoma City and Omagh bombing
     scenarios are striking. Both were unprecedented in their scale of
     death and injury; neither made any sense in terms of being a
     "political statement" for any group or organisation; the
     circumstance of both were highly suspicious; both were
     immediately followed by the passage of omnibus anti-terrorism
     bills without debate.

     Summary

     The pattern, then, is clear. The US leads the way in the
     development of police-state measures and of the means to get them
     implemented without debate. The measures are then exported to
     other countries by the tried-and-true method of staging dramatic
     incidents. Globalisation is a very systematic process, as we have
     seen in the pattern of IMF interventions, and as we can see in
     the establishment of global governing institutions. It is no
     surprise that a systematic means have been developed to implement
     the police-state regimes which are required to fulfill the aims
     of the neoliberal revolution.

     The evidence, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, is clear. Our NWO
     elite leaders are committed to the program of corporate
     globalisation. They are compelled to this strategy by the need to
     keep their capital pool growing. Reducing Western populations to
     Third-World status is a necessary part of their plans for the
     globalisation of the economy and the consolidation of all power
     in their centralised bureaucracies. The installation of
     police-state regimes is being purposely pursued in order to force
     this elite program on Western populations.

     I suggest to you that the only reasonable verdict is "guilty as
     charged", and that the sentence should be the overthrow of the
     capitalist elite oligarchy, through non-violent democratic
     revolution, and the replacement of the capitalist system by one
     more appropriate to human happiness and well-being.

     I thank you for your attention and invite you to go forth and do
     your duty as free men and women to secure the future of the Earth
     and of your progeny.

     Recommended Reading (alphabetical order):

     William Blum, Killing Hope, US Military and CIA Interventions
     Since World War II, 1995, Common Courage Press, PO Box 702,
     Monroe, ME 04951, USA.

     Michel Chossudovsky, The Globalisation of Poverty, 1997, Third
     World Network, 228, Macalister Road, 10400 Penang, Malaysia, fax
     60 4 226 4505.

     Richard Douthwaite, The Growth Illusion, 1992, Lilliput Press,
     Dublin.

     William Greider, Who Will Tell the People =97 the Betrayal of
     American Democracy, 1993, Simon and Schuster.

     Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking
     of World Order, 1997, Simon and Schuster.

     V.I. Lenin, Imperialism, the Highest Stage of Capitalism, 1939,
     International Publishers Co.

     Jerry Mander and Edward Goldsmith (editors), The Case Against the
     Global Economy and for a Turn Toward the Local, 1996, Sierra Club
     Books, San Francisco.

     Richard K. Moore, Globalization and the Revolutionary Imperative,
     a book-in-progress available online at
     http://cyberjournal.org/cadre/gri/gri.html

     Michael Parenti, Make-Believe Media =97 the Politics of
     Entertainment, 1992, St. Martin=92s Press, New York.

     David Wise, The American Police State, 1973, Vintage Books.

     Previous parts of Richard Moore=92s Police State Conspiracy =97 An
     Indictment were published in New Dawn Nos. 46, 47 & 48.

     [Image]
     Richard Moore, an expatriate from Silicon Valley, currently lives
     and writes in Wexford, Ireland. He currently runs the
     Cyberjournal "list" on the Internet. Email: rkmoore@iol.ie, FTP:
     ftp://ftp.iol.ie/users/rkmoore/cyberlib   Address: PO Box 26,
     Wexford, Ireland.

- --------------5E5047714EA--


- -> Send "subscribe   snetnews " to majordomo@world.std.com
- ->  Posted by: "Mark A. Smith" 


------- End of Forwarded Message




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 08:36:40 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Northpole Standoff
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




--- begin forwarded text


Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 15:28:40 -0800
To: rah@shipwright.com, Other People...
From: Somebody
Subject: Northpole Standoff


Dec. 23, 1994
Northpole Standoff

A fierce battle ended in a stand-off today as a multi-jurisdictional task
force of federal law enforcement agents tried to arrest the leader of a
militant doomsday cult, who call themselves "Elves," living in a heavily
fortified compound at the Northpole. According to witnesses, federal agents
hid in livestock trailers as they drove up to the compound.

The approach was difficult in the snow using wheeled vehicles. Several
agents were reportedly thrown from the trailer when it hit a snowbank. The
agents were unable to use dog teams and sleds because the ATF agents shot
all the dogs during training at a nearby recreational facility where agents
had practiced for weeks on a mock-up of the compound in preparation for the
raid.

As three National Guard helicopters approached, over 100 law officers
stormed the main compound, a heavily fortified gingerbread structure,
throwing concussion grenades and screaming "Come out!" Cult members and law
officers negotiated a cease-fire about 45 minutes after the incident began.

For the next several hours, ambulances and helicopters swarmed the
premises. The area was cordoned off and ATF agents with machine guns were
posted in the roadways to keep reporters at least two miles from the main
battle area.

In a lengthy report on the group Saturday, The Northpole Tribune-Herald
said that the cult was known to have a large arsenal of high-powered
weapons, probably produced in a workshop disguised as a "toy factory." This
toy factory is also believed to be the sight of a mephamphetamine
laboratory, according to sources inside the ATF.

The article quoted investigators as saying the crazed cult leader, who uses
several aliases, "Santa Claus," "Saint Nick," "Sinterclaas," and "Saint
Nicholas," age unknown, has abused children and claims to have at least 15
wives. Santa Claus denies these accusations of abuse and said he has had
only one wife, Mrs.
Santa Claus.

Authorities had a warrant to search the Northpole compound for guns and
explosive devices and an arrest warrant for its leader, Santa Claus, said
Mess Stanford of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms in Washington,
D.C. Mr. Stanford added it would be useless to attempt to get a copy of
this warrant, however, because it had been sealed, "for national security
reasons."

The assault came one day after the Northpole Tribune-Herald began
publishing a series on the cult, quoting former members as saying the
deranged cult leader, Santa Claus, abused children and had at least 15
wives.

ATF spokesman Jack Killchildren in Washington said the assault had been
planned for several weeks, although he added, "I think the newspaper's
investigation set up heightened tension."

The cult's fortress, called "The Toy Factory," is dominated by a tower with
lookout windows facing in all directions. Guards reportedly patrol the
77-acre grounds at night.

Attorney General Janet Reno ordered the raid after cult members refused to
surrender documents relating to national security. A source inside the
Justice Department said that the documents were lists of cabinet members
and highly placed government officials who were naughty or nice. Despite
preliminary, secret negotiations to obtain the list, the Elves refused to
surrender the document to the Justice Department.

The raid was scheduled for December 23, because December 25 is believed to
be a traditional cult holiday and all the militant elves would be engaged
in cult rituals in preparation for the event.

At a press conference this afternoon, Attorney General Reno said, "These
militants abuse children in the most vile manner, by teaching them to
expect charity. They have even distributed free, working replicas of
'assault weapons' and 'handguns.' It is a matter of dire importance to our
future and the future of all our children, that this peril be ended by
every means at our disposal."

She went on to say that "I do not want to surround the compound and shoot
everyone and then burn it to the ground in order to prevent this child
abuse from occurring again, but that appears to be our only alternative."

According to Reno, the "Toy Factory" itself is a sweatshop and conditions
inside were horrendous. The Department of Justice is also looking into
allegations of animal cruelty. Former members of the cult have claimed that
Santa Claus frequently uses leather restraints on at least eight reindeer,
housed in sordid conditions on the compound. Witnesses reported seeing a
reindeer with a protruding red nose, which Janet Reno said was further
indication of the abusive conditions inside the compound.

Several of the elves were reported by the BATF to have been carrying
automatic weapons. However, independent sources dispute this, claiming that
the "automatic weapons" were nothing more than large candy canes.

ATF leader Ted Oyster, shaken after the ordeal, spoke to reporters as
hundreds of agents, many of them in tears, were taken away from the
Northpole in military airlifts, ambulances, and private vehicles.

"We had our plan down, we had our diversion down, and they were waiting..."
Oyster said resignedly, shaking his head.

A hospital spokesman said that most of the wounded ATF agents appeared to
be suffering from shrapnel wounds from broken candy canes, as well as
frostbite, apparently suffered from wearing forest-green camouflage in the
wintry terrain.

Attorney General Reno offered no comment on these reports.

Mack "the knife" McWarty was seen strolling across the White House lawn,
chuckling to himself as he read what inside sources say was a copy of the
naughty/nice list.

One highly placed government official was found dead in Marcy Park. His
name and the cause of death are unknown at this time, however, the White
House immediately issued a statement claiming the official had committed
suicide after learning his name was not on the nice list.

Patsy Thomahawk refused to comment on the advice of her attorney on whether
she had any part in removing copies of the naughty/nice list from a safe in
the White House.

A spokesman from the MJTF said that it was indeed a tragedy that Santa
Claus had caused this confrontation, but this should be a lesson to anyone
who tries to give to everyone without permission from the welfare
department, and that gathering sensitive data without a permit from
official sources will be stopped by any means.

FBI spokesman Bob Pricks, the former national Abortion Poster Child of
1944, relayed that "We are dealing with a madman. We have cut off all
electricity, water, and communications to the compound.

Santa Claus has demanded that we relay a message to the world. It reads,
'Merry Christmas to all and to all a good night.' FBI psychological experts
are presently analyzing the message, however, preliminary reports indicate
this is an encrypted threat to invade the neighboring towns near the
Northpole. It may also be a doomsday message that the cult intends to
commit suicide, like Jonestown."

Shortly after the raid, a smiling Reno was seen strolling through the pile
of rubbish looking for anatomically correct Barbie dolls. She claimed that
she was going to confiscate any that she found as "evidence" and that they
were for a personal investigation that she was conducting.

Attorney General Reno also disclosed some information about plans to raid
Mr. E. Ster Bunny sometime next spring. According to the FBI's report on
Mr. Bunny, he has been hoarding food all year. This is in direct violation
of a secret Presidential Directive. "This ingratitude for everything that
we have done will stop, even if it means raiding every house in the USA to
enforce these new laws that were made to insure your freedom...." Reno
said.

This, boys and girls, should make us all sleep just a little bit better
tonight. The government will protect us from overindulging in freedom. If
they didn't step in and take control of that "naughty/nice" list, just
think what shape we might be in.....
*****




--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Tim May 
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 12:14:14 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: RE: Norway - go to jail for naming baby illegal [CNN]
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 5:59 PM -0800 12/31/98, Reeza! wrote:

>THAT is _almost_ understandable. You say that Iceland requires immigrants
>to change their names to Norse ones, you didn't say to Norse ones on the
>approved list. or Norse ones avoiding those on the disapproved list. Does
>Iceland have the same "children who are born here are Icelandic citizens,
>regardless of the nationality of the parents" provision of the US
>constitution?

Is that written into the Constitution? I wasn't aware of that. If so, I
will have learned something new tonight, perhaps the last major new thing I
learn in 1998.

There is talk of changing this law (or, I suppose, item in the C.) which
allows and even encourages pregnant Mexicans and Salvadorans and
Guatemalans to sneak into the U.S. just in time to have their babies in an
American hospital, thus making the children American citizens (and mustn't
separate mother from child, right?).

Israel of course has laws allowing anyone born of a Jewish mother to
"return" to Israel...never mind that they may have essentially no genetic
content of any ancestor who ever lived in Palestine, even the Palestine of
3500 years ago.

Ireland has a fairly new law which allows anyone with any Irish born
grandparents or parents to get Irish citizenship.

(Both Israel and Ireland, and presumably other places, would like to
encourage wealthy Americans to relocate.)

>About the only place I can think of where prohibiting certain names might-
>might be justifiable, is in countries where the names of certain criminals
>are associated with crimes of such heinous magnitude that it would create
>an emotional burden the viable tissue mass would never be able to overcome.
>'Adolf Hitler' Xxxxxx, 'Charles Manson' Yyyyyy, or 'Hannibal Lector' Zzzzz,
>(heh) for example. It's just another case of jingoism (maintaining their
>culture re: populace naming conventions) and religious persecution (the
>babies name is hebrew, the mother of 10 claims christianity for her own),,,

It is not the function of a legitimate government to pass laws to stop
"emotional burdens" on children. If it were, then various religions which
expose the children of practicitioners to ridicule would be candidates for
banning.


As with so many things, Reeza!!, you need to carefully think about these
political issues. Frankly, from the views you often express, I wonder why
you support freely available unbreakable and untraceable communications.

--Tim May




We would go to their homes, and we'd kill their wives and
their children. We would kill their families
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist         | black markets, collapse of governments.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Douglas L. Peterson" 
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 04:13:22 +0800
To: Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer 
Subject: Englewood seeks limit on Net sex sites
Message-ID: <368BE358.BC07E252@chisp.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Seems this stuff is now in my own back yard.

If anyone wants to talk to the people involved,
go here: http://www.ci.englewood.co.us/



http://www.denver-rmn.com/news/1231filt4.shtml

> Englewood seeks limit on Net sex sites 
> 
> Program to curb access of children at libraries 
> 
> Associated Press
> 
> 
> ENGLEWOOD -- The Englewood Public Library will
> be the first in Colorado to try a new technology
> strictly limiting children's access to sex sites
> on the World Wide Web. Mayor Tom Burns said the
> city and its librarians have no intention of
> censoring the Internet, and the Guardiannet
> program can be cancelled after a 30-day test run
> if it doesn't work out.
> 
> Starting in April, all of the library's Internet
> users will need a plastic "Smart Card" to go
> online. The cards will be coded to indicate
> whether children under 18 have their parents'
> permission to full access or should be restricted
> to the limited database of 5,000 child-friendly sites.
> 
> "It's a solution that allows parents to make
> the decision, rather than the institution," said
> City Manager Gary Sears.
> 
> However, Sears said the move could invite
> lawsuits from civil rights groups that may
> view the city's decision as censorship. The
> move also comes amid national debate
> among librarians on whether blocking systems
> constitutes censorship and violates First
> Amendment rights.
> 
> Jamie LaRue, president of the Colorado Library
> Association, called Internet restrictions
> "a tricky issue."
> 
> "When I was a little boy ...I knew what was
> wrong," LaRue said. "The part that bothers
> me is that we are using technological
> inventions to replace civility and conscience in
> what is in fact an ethical problem."
> 
> The Englewood City Council voted 5-2 to
> approve the $108,000 contract with
> Guardiannet, even though the library
> board recommended against it.
> 
> Councilwoman Lauri Clapp said it will give
> the library the needed tools to help parents
> protect their children. City Councilwoman
> Alex Habenicht opposed the measure.
> 
> December 31, 1998 

-Doug
www.TheServerFarm.net




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Jim Choate 
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 12:35:55 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: RE: Norway - go to jail for naming baby illegal [CNN] (fwd)
Message-ID: <199901010425.WAA09537@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text



Forwarded message:

> Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 19:57:17 -0800
> From: Tim May 
> Subject: RE: Norway - go to jail for naming baby illegal [CNN]

> At 5:59 PM -0800 12/31/98, Reeza! wrote:
> 
> >THAT is _almost_ understandable. You say that Iceland requires immigrants
> >to change their names to Norse ones, you didn't say to Norse ones on the
> >approved list. or Norse ones avoiding those on the disapproved list. Does
> >Iceland have the same "children who are born here are Icelandic citizens,
> >regardless of the nationality of the parents" provision of the US
> >constitution?
> 
> Is that written into the Constitution? I wasn't aware of that. If so, I
> will have learned something new tonight, perhaps the last major new thing I
> learn in 1998.

	No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United 
States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible 
to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that 
Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been 
fourteen Years a Resident within the United States. 

The first sentence is normaly considered the legal standard that is being
referenced here. It's the only place in the Constitution that refers to how
one actualy gains citizenship. There are apparently three (one unmentioned)
ways:

 1.	natural born (ie being physicaly born on US soil) is the highest
        measure of 'American' citizenship

 2.     being a citizen of the US at the time of ratification

 3.     Unementioned, but implied by the stipulation of 1. for the
        office of president. The intent is commenly held that this
        prevents foreign nationals of long-standing from bringing
        foreign influence into the office. Implicit is that the
        legislature set relevant standards.


    ____________________________________________________________________

          What raises the standard of living may well diminish the
          quality of life.

                                                 The Club of Rome

       The Armadillo Group       ,::////;::-.          James Choate
       Austin, Tx               /:'///// ``::>/|/      ravage@ssz.com
       www.ssz.com            .',  ||||    `/( e\      512-451-7087
                           -====~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
    --------------------------------------------------------------------




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999 11:56:56 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: RE: Norway - go to jail for naming baby illegal [CNN]
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Icelandic last names, and old Norse last names in general, change,
algorithimically, every generation.

Your "last" name, if male, is your father's first name with "son" after it.

If you're female it's your mother's first name, with, I believe "dottir"
(daughter) after it.

So, if your parents are Eric (say :-)), and, um, Helga, and you're male and
your name is Lief, your name would be (oddly enough) Lief Ericsson.

If you're female, and your name is, oh, Greta, (I don't know many female Norse
names, and that's probably not one, Miss Garbo to the contrary) then your name
would be Greta Helgasdottir, or something like that.

Icelanders on the list will correct the specifics, of course. The price of
error is bandwidth, and all that, but you get the idea.

So, no matter who your are, if you're to become an Icelandic citizen, your
last name changes.

Mine, since my family's Fresian, would change from "Hettinga" ("guy who lives
on a hill", which almost everyone did, or they lived in a swamp :-)), to
"Ralphson", which, fortunately, is almost passable Icelandic. Actually,
Frisians, the bad guys in Beowulf, could almost pass for Norse in general, as
anyone who's met me might testify.

Think of it as an anonymous renamer?

:-).


Cheers,
Robert Hettinga

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.5.5

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-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: print4ever@micronet.net
Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1999 23:02:48 +0800
To: 
Subject: AD:Family Reunion T Shirts & More
Message-ID: <199902061406.GAA13110@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Message sent by:  Kuppler Graphics, 32 West Main Street, Maple Shade, New Jersey, 08052,
1-800-810-4330. This is a one time mailing.  This list will NOT be sold.  All addresses 
are automatically added to our remove list.

Hello.  My name is Bill from Kuppler Graphics.  We do screenprinting on T Shirts, Sweatshirts,
Jackets, Hats, Tote Bags and more!

Do you or someone you know have a Family Reunion coming up?  Kuppler Graphics would like to
provide you with some great looking T Shirts for your Reunion.

Kuppler Graphics can also provide you with custom T's and promotional items such as imprinted
magnets, keychains, pens, mugs, hats, etc. for your business or any fundraising activity
(church, school, business etc.)  

We are a family owned company with over 15 years of experience.  

All work is done at this location.  No middle man.  Our prices are great!

Please click reply to email us to receive more info or call 1-800-810-4330
Thanks for your interest

Bill
Kuppler Graphics
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: jose 
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 06:47:05 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: DNS queries
In-Reply-To: <371DEFA3.D99C62DE@uni.edu.pe>
Message-ID: <368BF73F.1E39D1A5@uni.edu.pe>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain





Thanx 4 da help, but it isnt the answer to ma question.

I tray to know, ..... All the pc's on Internet use a server (Remote o
local ; named ,etc ) that resolve the queries 4 non ip's domains, like
www.microsoft.com

4 example    200.37.129.2 ---- use 207.17.220.2 to resolve the queries
(of the domains ) in internet.

I like to know if there be a program that say me Remotly that
200.37.129.2 use 207.17.220.2 to resolve the domain ( 4 da Internet )
queries.

Best wishes

Jose A. Freyre

Security Admin - UNI - Networks




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: vinjac@usa.net
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 07:52:01 -0800 (PST)
To: vinjac@usa.net
Subject: Tired of the Rat Race? Read and Build Wealth!!
Message-ID: <199811301544.AAA22752@aics.co.jp>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



THIS IS IT FOLKS!! 

This is THE LETTER you've been READING about 
in the NEWS lately.

Due to the popularity of this letter on the 
Internet, a major nightly news program recently 
devoted an entire show to the investigation of 
the program described below, to see if it really 
can make people money.  If you saw it, you know 
that their conclusion was that while most people 
did not make the $55,000, as discussed in the plan, 
EVERYONE who followed the instructions was able to 
make 100 to 160 times their money at the VERY LEAST.  
The show also investigated whether or not the 
program was legal.  Their findings proved once and 
for all that there are absolutely no laws prohibiting 
the participation in the program.   "This is one of 
the most exciting opportunities with the MOST income 
potential on the internet today!" --48 Hours.

Hi, my name is Susan.  After I saw this letter aired 
on the news program, I decided to get some of my 
skeptical questions answered.

Question #1 - Does it really work?  Until I try it, 
I can only go on the testimony of people I don't know, 
so I will only know if I try it.  I've never done 
this type of thing, but I decided it was time to try 
something.  If I keep doing what I am doing I'll keep 
getting what I've got.  Besides, people 70 years old 
have been surveyed and they have consistently said 
that the 2 regrets they have had in their lives were 
that;

	1) They wish they had spent more time with 
	their families and
	2) They wish they had taken more chances

Upon hearing this again, and hearing what the MEDIA 
said about it, I decided that at 42, I was going to 
take a small chance and see what would come of it.

Question #2 - Is it legal? - Yes, (Refer to title 18, 
Section 1302 & 1342 of the U.S. Postal and Lottery 
Laws) This opportunity isn't much of a risk and could 
turn out to actually be a bit of fun. 

Bottom Line;
The risk is only $20 and time on the Internet.
The following is a copy of the letter that the media 
was referring to:

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ 

This is a LEGAL, MONEYMAKING PHENOMENON.
PRINT this letter, READ the directions, THEN READ IT 
AGAIN !!!

You are about to embark on the most profitable and 
unique program you may ever see!  Many times over, 
it has demonstrated and proven its ability to 
generate large amounts of cash!  This program is 
showing fantastic appeal with a huge and ever-growing 
on-line population desirous of additional income.
           
This is a legitimate, LEGAL, moneymaking opportunity.  
It does not require you to come in personal contact 
with people, do any hard work, and best of all, you 
never have to leave the house, except to get the mail 
and go to the bank!          
      
This truly is that lucky break you've been waiting 
for!  Simply follow the easy instructions in this 
letter, and your financial dreams can come true!  
When followed correctly, this electronic, multi-
level marketing program WORKS!
               
Thousands of people have used this program to: 
	- Raise capital to start their own businesses
	- Pay off debts
	- Buy homes, cars, etc.,
	- Even retire!

This is your chance, Don't pass it up!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OVERVIEW OF THIS EXTRAORDINARY

ELECTRONIC MULTI-LEVEL MARKETING PROGRAM
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Basically, this is what we do:  
We send thousands of people a product that they 
paid us $5.00 US for, that costs next to nothing 
to produce and e-mail back to them. As with all 
multi-level businesses, we build our business by 
recruiting new partners and selling our products.  
Every state in the U.S. allows you to recruit new 
multi-level business online (via your computer).

The products in this program are a series of four 
business and financial reports costing $5.00 each.  
Each order you receive is to include:

	* $5.00 cash United States Currency

	* The name and number of the report they are 
	ordering

	* The e-mail address where you will e-mail 
	them the report they ordered.
        
To fill each order, you simply e-mail the product to 
the buyer.  THAT'S IT!  The $5.00 is yours!  This is 
the EASIEST electronic multi-level marketing business 
anywhere!


FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS TO THE LETTER AND
BE PREPARED TO REAP THE STAGGERING BENEFITS!

+++++++++ I  N  S  T  R  U  C  T  I  O  N  S +++++++++
             
This is what you MUST do:

1. Order all 4 reports shown on the list below 
(you can't sell them if you don't order them).

*  For each report, send $5.00 CASH, the NAME & 
NUMBER OF THE REPORT YOU ARE ORDERING, YOUR E-MAIL 
ADDRESS, and YOUR RETURN POSTAL ADDRESS (in case of 
a problem) to the person whose name appears on the 
list next to the report.

*  When you place your order, make sure you order 
each of the four reports.  You will need all four 
reports so that you can save them on your computer 
and resell them.

*  Within a few days you are to receive, via e-mail, 
each of the four reports.  Save them on your computer 
so they will be accessible for you to send to the 
1,000's of people who will order them from you.

2. IMPORTANT-- DO NOT alter the names of the people 
who are listed next to each report, or their sequence 
on the list, in any way other than is instructed 
below in steps "a" through "d" or you will lose out 
on the majority of your profits.   Once you understand 
the way this works, you'll also see how it doesn't 
work if you change it.  Remember that this method has 
been tested, and if you alter it, it will not work.    

a.  Look below for the listing of available reports.        
        
b.  After you've ordered the four reports, replace 
the name and address under REPORT #1 with your name 
and address, moving the one that was there down to 
REPORT #2.          

c.  Move the name and address that was under REPORT 
#2 down to REPORT #3.
  
d.  Move the name and address that was under REPORT 
#3 down to REPORT#4.
               
e.  The name and address that was under REPORT #4 
is removed from the list and has NO DOUBT collected 
large sums of cash!   
Please make sure you copy everyone's name and address 
ACCURATELY!!!

3.  Take this entire letter, including the modified 
list of names, and save  it to your computer.  Make 
NO changes to the instruction portion of this letter.       
        
4.  Now you're ready to start an advertising campaign 
on the WORLDWIDE WEB!  Advertising on the WEB can be 
very, very inexpensive, and there are HUNDREDS of 
FREE places to advertise. Another avenue, which you 
could use for advertising, is e-mail lists. You can 
buy these lists for under $20/2,000 addresses or you 
can pay someone to take care of it for you.  BE SURE 
TO START YOUR AD CAMPAIGN IMMEDIATELY!
        
5.  For every $5.00 you receive, all you must do is 
e-mail them the report they ordered.  THAT'S IT!  
ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON ALL ORDERS! This 
will help guarantee that the e-mail THEY send out, 
with YOUR name and address on it, will be prompt 
because they can't advertise until they receive the 
report!  To grow fast be prompt and courteous.  

--------------------------------------
AVAILABLE REPORTS     
*Order Each REPORT by NUMBER and NAME*
   
Notes:        
-  ALWAYS SEND $5 CASH FOR EACH REPORT         
-  ALWAYS SEND YOUR ORDER VIA THE QUICKEST DELIVERY        
-  Make sure the cash is concealed by wrapping it 
   in at least two sheets of paper          
-  On one of those sheets of paper, include: (a) the 
number & name of the report you are ordering, (b) 
your e-mail address, and (c) your postal address.        
_________________________________________________________________        

REPORT #1 "HOW TO MAKE $250,000 THROUGH MULTI-LEVEL 
SALES"      
ORDER REPORT #1 FROM:          
            Inter-Line Systems
            PO Box 175
            Milford, NJ 08848
_________________________________________________________________        

REPORT #2 "MAJOR CORPORATIONS AND MULTI-LEVEL SALES"   
ORDER REPORT #2 FROM:        
            Galactic Whispers
            PO Box 291
            Pittstown, NJ 08867
_________________________________________________________________        

REPORT #3 "SOURCES FOR THE BEST MAILING LISTS"      
ORDER REPORT #3 FROM:        
            DEM
            3 Tallyho Lane
            Bow, NH 03304
 
_________________________________________________________________        

REPORT #4 "EVALUATING MULTI-LEVEL SALES PLANS"    
ORDER REPORT #4 FROM:        
            INFO-MEDIA PUBLICATIONS
            100 E. WHITESTONE BLVD.  SUITE 148-133      
            CEDAR PARK,  TEXAS 78613 
_____________________________________________________        

  ----------------------------------------------------
  HERE'S HOW THIS AMAZING PLAN WILL MAKE YOU $MONEY$
  ----------------------------------------------------
  
Let's say you decide to start small just to see how 
well it works.  Assume your goal is to get 10 people 
to participate on your first level.  (Placing a lot 
of FREE ads on the internet will EASILY get a larger 
response.)  Also assume that everyone else in YOUR 
ORGANIZATION gets ONLY 10 downline members.  Follow 
this example to achieve the STAGGERING results below.        
        
1st level--your 10 members with $5.............$50        

2nd level--10 members from those 10 
($5 x 100).....................................$500        

3rd level--10 members from those 100 
($5 x 1,000)...................................$5,000        

4th level--10 members from those 1,000 
($5 x 10,000)..................................$50,000        

THIS TOTALS ---------------------------------->$55,550

Remember friends, this assumes that the people who 
participate only recruit 10 people each.  Think for 
a moment what would happen if they got 20 people to 
participate!  Lots of people get 100s of participants!  
THINK ABOUT IT!      

Your cost to participate in this is practically 
nothing (surely you can afford $20).  You obviously 
already have an internet connection and e-mail is 
FREE!!!  REPORT#3 shows you the most productive 
methods for bulk e-mailing and purchasing e-mail 
lists.  Some list & bulk e-mail vendors even work 
on trade! 
 
About 50,000 new people get online every month

****TIPS FOR SUCCESS**** 
    
 *  TREAT THIS AS YOUR BUSINESS!  Be prompt, 
    professional, and follow the directions accurately.
 *  Send for the four reports IMMEDIATELY so you will 
    have them when the orders start coming in because:      
    When you receive a $5 order, you MUST send out the 
    requested product/report to comply with the U.S. 
    Postal & Lottery Laws, Title 18,Sections 1302 and 
    1341 or Title 18, Section 3005 in the U.S. Code 
    also Code of Federal Regs. vol. 16, Sections 255 
    and 436, which state that "a product or service 
    must be exchanged for money received." 

 *ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON THE ORDERS YOU 
  RECEIVE.

 *  Be patient and persistent with this program. If 
    you follow the instructions exactly, the results 
    WILL undoubtedly be SUCCESSFUL!        

 *  ABOVE ALL, HAVE FAITH IN YOURSELF AND KNOW YOU 
    WILL SUCCEED!

    ************YOUR SUCCESS GUIDELINE************
  
Follow these guidelines to help assure your success:

If you don't receive 10 to 20 orders for REPORT #1 
within two weeks, continue advertising until you do.  
Then, a couple of weeks later you should receive at 
least 50 orders for REPORT #2.  If you don't, 
continue advertising until you do.  Once you have 
received 50 or more orders for REPORT #2, YOU CAN 
RELAX, because the system is already working for you, 
and the cash can continue to roll in!

THIS IS IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER:

Every time your name is moved down on the list, you 
are placed in front of a DIFFERENT report.  You can 
KEEP TRACK of your PROGRESS by watching which report 
people are ordering from you.  If you want to 
generate more income, send another batch of e-mails 
and start the whole process again!  There is no limit 
to the income you will generate from this business!        
        
NOTE:  If you need help with starting a business, 
registering a business name,  how income tax is 
handled, etc., contact your local office of the 
Small Business Administration (a Federal agency) for 
free help and answers to questions.  Also, the 
Internal Revenue Service offers free help via 
telephone and free seminars about business taxes.   
If you have any question of the legality of this 
letter contact the Office of Associate Director for 
Marketing Practices Federal Trade Commission Bureau 
of Consumer Protection in Washington DC.
     
**T  E  S  T  I  M  O  N  I  A  L  S**

This program does work, but you must follow it EXACTLY!
Especially the rule of not trying to place your name 
in a different position, it won't work and you'll lose 
a lot of potential income.  I'm living proof that it 
works.  It really is a great opportunity to make 
relatively easy money, with little cost to you.  If you 
do choose to participate, follow the program exactly, 
and you'll be on your way to financial security.
Sean McLaughlin, Jackson, MS      

The main reason for this letter is to convince you 
that this system is honest, lawful, extremely 
profitable, and is a way to get a large amount of 
money in a short time.  I was approached several 
times before I checked this out.  I joined just to 
see what one could expect in return for the minimal 
effort and money required.  To my astonishment, I 
received $36,470.00 in the first 19 weeks, with money 
still coming in.
Phillip A. Brown, Esq.              

I had received this program before. I deleted it, but 
later I wondered if I shouldn't have given it a try. 
Of course, I had no idea who to contact to get another 
copy, so I had to wait until I was e-mailed another 
program...11 months passed then it came...I didn't 
delete this one!...I made more than $41,000 on the 
first try!!
D. Wilburn, Muncie, IN        

This is my third time to participate in this plan. 
We have quit our jobs, and will soon buy a home on 
the beach and live off the interest on our money.  
The only way on earth that this plan will work for 
you is if you do it. For your sake, and for your 
family's sake don't pass up this golden opportunity.  
Good luck and happy spending!
Charles Fairchild, Spokane, WA  

I am nearing the $90,000 mark from this program.  I 
have used several forms of advertisement.  I used 
regular mail and bulk e-mail.  The regular mail that 
I used was very expensive for two reasons. I purchased 
a very select list of names and the postage. The third 
time I sent e-mails out, I did so in the quantity of 
1 million. So, after 3 times participating in this 
program I am almost at the $90,000 mark. That isn't 
too bad. I hope the same success for you.
Raymond McCormick, New Cannan, Ct. 

You have great potential for extra earnings that is 
available at your fingertips!  You have unlimited 
access to wealth, but you must be willing to take 
that first step!  The Media ALREADY PROVED That !!!!

You could be making an obscene amount of money!  I 
have given you the information, materials, and 
opportunity to become financially better off. IT IS 
UP TO YOU NOW!- THINK ABOUT IT - Your risk is only 
$20.? HOW MUCH DO YOU SPEND ON LOTTO TICKETS- for NO 
RETURN?

ORDER YOUR REPORTS TODAY
AND GET STARTED ON YOUR ROAD
TO FINANCIAL FREEDOM!!!









From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: falcon falcon 
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 08:18:32 -0800 (PST)
To: press-english-technical@lists.datafellows.com
Subject: Re: bonjour
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <366416FB.1ADD27A6@earthlink.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Boundary..3999.1071713824.multipart/signed"

--Boundary..3999.1071713824.multipart/signed
Content-Type: text/plain
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please remove my name from your email list.

Thierry Roch wrote:

> Ici tout va bien, merci.
>
> On espčre qu'une version fiable pour windows sortira un jour
> Salut
> ________________________________________
> roch@liberation.fr
> Tel : +33 (0) 1 42 76 17 68 - Fax: +33 (0) 1 42 76 02 24
> Informatique Libération http://www.liberation.fr




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: falcon falcon 
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 08:20:20 -0800 (PST)
To: press-english-technical@lists.datafellows.com
Subject: Re: MEDIA RELEASE: DATA FELLOWS AND SONERA JOIN FORCES TO CREATE SECURE VPN S...
In-Reply-To: <83cc5099.3664104d@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3664173D.B800682E@earthlink.net>
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Please remove my name from your email list.


Opencity@aol.com wrote:

> Hi Mimmi
>
> Okay...this can be distributed as of today?
>
> Thanks
> phil




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: vaneijk59@sara.nl
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 16:10:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199811302354.IAA00671@sy-name.kure-j.ac.jp>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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addresses like CompuServe, MCI, ANON's, etc.  This causes a 
tremendous amount of undeliverables.

After completion of removal of duplicates and initial filtering we were 
left with the base of 10 Million addresses worth fine tuning to finish the 
project.  Remember, we are not here to produce the CD with the gad zillion 
millions that our competitors are so proud to put their names on these days.  
We ARE here to produce the very BEST CD list as far as quality of 
addresses go

We then ran a program that contained 300+ keywords to remove addresses
with vulgarity,  profanity, sex-related names, postmaster, webmaster, flamer, 
abuse, spam, etc., etc.   Also eliminated all .EDU, mil, .org, .GOV, Genie, 
Delphi, GNN, Wow etc.   We also filtered out all addresses found in any of 
our 1300+ domains list.  We also filtered out addresses in excess of 30,000 
which have proven to be affiliated with anyone found to be opposed to our 
using direct bulk email as a advertising medium. We have also purged the 
list to be free of any "web poison" addresses created by those who are opposed 
to us conducting legitimate business on the internet today.  If you do not know 
what web poisoned addresses are, please look it up now.  One list we recently 
purchased had over 90% poisoned addresses.  The "bottom line" here is that 
you can go out on the world market today and purchase every lists for thousands 
of dollars and NOT have anymore worth owning than what we have compiled 
for you here today.

You use these addresses, you will experience increased response, increased 
sales, and a host of other positives that far exceeds any hoped for results when 
using the competitor's inferior products.  Our customers purchase our products 
over and over and over.  Most of the competition ever succeeds is selling a 
second product to anyone after they purchase the first.

  So, you see, our list will save people hundreds of dollars buying all others that are 
out there on  CD and otherwise. Using ours will be like using the 200+ million that 
we started with, but a lot less money and a lot less time!!
 
We have always said, "You can buy from the REST or you can buy from the BEST".   
Your choice.

                     _____________________________

                       What others are saying:

"I received the CD on Friday evening.   Like a kid with a new toy, I
 immediately started bulking out using the new email addresses.  Over
 the course of the weekend, I emailed out over 500,000 emails and I
 received less than TWENTY undeliverables!!  I am totally satisfied
with my purchase!!  Thanks Premier!!"
                              Dave Buckley
                              Houston,  TX
 
 "This list is worth it's weight in gold!!  I sent out 100,000 emails for my
 product and received over 55 orders!
                               Ann Colby
                            New Orleans, LA
 
                ****************************************
 
                                 HERE'S THE BOTTOM LINE
 
The CD is comprised of 7 million PREMIUM & SUPER clean addresses -ready 
for mailing upon receipt of the CD.  Each file contains exactly 100,000 email 
addresses. There are only AOL & Mixed addresses on this CD.  You have 50 files 
of 100,000 each of AOL to equal 5,000,000 addresses.  The AOL addresses are less 
than 6 weeks old and have been collected throughout the production schedule.
 
The remaining files are comprised of General Internet addresses. There are 20 files 
of 100,000 each, totaling 2,000,000 premium addresses.   NO Compuserve!  No Delphi!
No Genie!  No Prodigy!  NO Filler Addresses!  Simply the Best of the Best!!!

 
                           >>> ONLY $200.00!
 
This price is effective for the next seven days, thereafter the price will be
$299.00 so ORDER NOW!  Remember, bottom-line you always get what you pay for!

All lists are completely free of any Duplicates. We also on a continual basis, add 
New Names and Remove Undeliverables and Remove Requests. The result is the 
Cleanest Email Addresses Available Anywhere to use over and over again, for a 
FRACTION of the cost that other companies charge. Typical rates for acquiring 
email lists are from 1cent to as high as 3 cents per email  address - that's  
"INFORMATION HIGHWAY" ROBBERY!.

We continually work on our CD.  Who knows when those other CDs were made. 
We're constantly adding and deleting addresses, removes. Etc.  It all comes back 
to quality.

Don't even hesitate on this one or you will miss out on the most effective way to 
market anywhere...PERIOD!  If you have any further questions or to place an order, 
you can call toll free at:

800-600-0343  Ext. 2693


To order our email package, simply print out the EZ ORDER FORM
below and fax or mail it to our office today.
 
We accept Visa, Mastercard, AMEX, Checks by Fax.
 
 _________________
EZ Order Form
 

 _____Yes! I would like to order MILLIONS Vol. 2  email addresses
for only $200.00.
 
*Please select one of the following for shipping..
 
____I would like to receive my package OVERNIGHT. I'm including
$15 for shipping. (outside US add an additional $25 for shipping)
 
____I would like to receive my package 2 DAY delivery. I'm including
$10 for shipping.  (outside US add an additional $25 for shipping)
 
DATE_____________________________________________________
 
NAME____________________________________________________

COMPANY NAME___________________________________________

ADDRESS_________________________________________________

CITY, STATE, ZIP___________________________________________
 
PHONE NUMBERS__________________________________________
 
FAX NUMBERS_____________________________________________
 
EMAIL ADDRESS___________________________________________
 
TYPE OF CREDIT CARD:
 
______VISA _____MASTERCARD
 
CREDIT CARD# __________________________________________
 
EXPIRATION DATE________________________________________
 
NAME ON CARD___________________________________________
 
AMOUNT $____________________
 
 
(Required) SIGNATURE:x________________________
 
DATE:x__________________
 
You may fax your order to us at:   1-212-504-8192
 

CHECK BY FAX SERVICES!
 
If you would like to fax a check, paste your check below and fax it to
our office along with all forms to: 1-212-504-8192

******************************************************

***24 HOUR FAX SERVICES*** PLEASE PASTE YOUR
 
CHECK HERE AND FAX IT TO US AT 1-212-504-8192
 
*******************************************************
 
If You fax a check, there is no need for you to send the original check.
We will draft up a new check, with the exact information from your
original check. All checks will be held for bank clearance.  (7-10 days)
Make payable to: "GD Publishing"






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Ayoub, Mark  (CAP, FLEET)" 
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 08:25:43 -0800 (PST)
To: "'press-english-technical@lists.datafellows.com>
Subject: RE: bonjour
Message-ID: <95BE2E8C74BED1118C830001FAF8360811DDE2@catormp01cflsge.fleet.capital.ge.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Please do not click on REPLY ALL, click on REPLY only, otherwise EVERYBODY
on the mailing list receives a copy of your message.

-----Original Message-----
From: falcon falcon [mailto:falconinc@earthlink.net]
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 1998 11:19 AM
To: press-english-technical@lists.datafellows.com
Subject: Re: bonjour


please remove my name from your email list.

Thierry Roch wrote:

> Ici tout va bien, merci.
>
> On espčre qu'une version fiable pour windows sortira un jour
> Salut
> ________________________________________
> roch@liberation.fr
> Tel : +33 (0) 1 42 76 17 68 - Fax: +33 (0) 1 42 76 02 24
> Informatique Libération http://www.liberation.fr






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Ayoub, Mark  (CAP, FLEET)" 
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 08:40:23 -0800 (PST)
To: "'press-english-technical@lists.datafellows.com>
Subject: RE: MEDIA RELEASE: DATA FELLOWS AND SONERA JOIN FORCES TO CREATESECURE VPN S...
Message-ID: <95BE2E8C74BED1118C830001FAF8360811DDE3@catormp01cflsge.fleet.capital.ge.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 1310
Lines: 56


DO NOT HIT REPLY ALL, if you need to send an email send it to
mailto:Marita.Nasman-Repo@DataFellows.com.  Otherwise everybody on the
mailing list receive your message.

Mark Ayoub
GECFS PC Support

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Denny [mailto:mad@mm-croy.mottmac.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 1998 11:28 AM
To: press-english-technical@lists.datafellows.com
Subject: RE: MEDIA RELEASE: DATA FELLOWS AND SONERA JOIN FORCES TO
CREATESECURE VPN S...


===== Original Message from PRESS-EN @ INTERNET 
{press-english-technical@lists.datafellows.com} at 1/12/98 16:21
>Same request. May I be removed from this list as well?
>
>
>
>
>falcon falcon  on 12/01/98 11:20:14 AM
>
>Please respond to press-english-technical@lists.datafellows.com
>
>To:   press-english-technical@lists.datafellows.com
>cc:
>bcc:  Evan Schuman/MHS/CMPNotes
>Subject:  Re: MEDIA RELEASE: DATA FELLOWS AND SONERA JOIN FORCES TO CREATE
>      SECURE VPN S...
>
>
>
>
>Please remove my name from your email list.
>
>
>Opencity@aol.com wrote:
>
>> Hi Mimmi
>>
>> Okay...this can be distributed as of today?
>>
>> Thanks
>> phil
===== Comments by MAD@MM-CROY (Mark Denny) at 1/12/98 16:27
Could you please stop sending me your emails. I think that some thing has 
gone wrong with your server.

Thanks.
Mark.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Ayoub, Mark  (CAP, FLEET)" 
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 08:49:31 -0800 (PST)
To: "'press-english-technical@lists.datafellows.com>
Subject: RE: bonjour
Message-ID: <95BE2E8C74BED1118C830001FAF8360811DDE5@catormp01cflsge.fleet.capital.ge.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


DO NOT HIT REPLY ALL, if you need to send an email send it to
mailto:Marita.Nasman-Repo@DataFellows.com.  Otherwise everybody on the
mailing list receive your message.

Mark Ayoub
GECFS PC Support

-----Original Message-----
From: "dan_verton"@fcw.com [mailto:"dan_verton"@fcw.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 1998 11:39 AM
To: press-english-technical@lists.datafellows.com
Subject: Re: bonjour


this is not my list and I want off as well.




falcon falcon  on 12/01/98 11:19:07 AM

Please respond to press-english-technical@lists.datafellows.com

To:   press-english-technical@lists.datafellows.com
cc:    (bcc: Dan Verton/FCW)
Subject:  Re: bonjour




please remove my name from your email list.

Thierry Roch wrote:

> Ici tout va bien, merci.
>
> On esp




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Ayoub, Mark  (CAP, FLEET)" 
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 08:47:09 -0800 (PST)
To: "'press-english-technical@lists.datafellows.com>
Subject: RE: bonjour
Message-ID: <95BE2E8C74BED1118C830001FAF8360811DDE6@catormp01cflsge.fleet.capital.ge.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


DO NOT HIT REPLY ALL, if you need to send an email send it to
mailto:Marita.Nasman-Repo@DataFellows.com.  Otherwise everybody on the
mailing list receive your message.

Mark Ayoub
GECFS PC Support

-----Original Message-----
From: SimpleNet Informatica LTDA [mailto:dalmo@simp.net]
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 1998 11:35 AM
To: press-english-technical@lists.datafellows.com
Subject: Re: bonjour


Remove me too !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

At 08:19 AM 12/1/98 -0800, you wrote:
>please remove my name from your email list.
>
>Thierry Roch wrote:
>
>> Ici tout va bien, merci.
>>
>> On espčre qu'une version fiable pour windows sortira un jour
>> Salut
>> ________________________________________
>> roch@liberation.fr
>> Tel : +33 (0) 1 42 76 17 68 - Fax: +33 (0) 1 42 76 02 24
>> Informatique Libération http://www.liberation.fr
>
>
>Content-Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s"

>Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s"
>Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
>
>Attachment Converted: c:\internet\eudora\attach\smime10.p7s
>
+===================================================+
 SimpleNet Informatica LTDA - mailto:simp@simp.net 
 Tel/Fax : (+55-21)509-0944
 http://www.simp.net/  Rio de Janeiro - Brazil      
 3com Partner - Cyclades Reseller - Wingate Reseller
 Attachmate Premium Partner Medallion - SCO Reseller              
+===================================================+
Visite o Rio de Janeiro : http://www.guiario.com.br
Sinalizando o Brasil em : http://www.signbrazil.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Opencity@aol.com
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 07:51:33 -0800 (PST)
To: press-english-technical@lists.datafellows.com
Subject: Re: MEDIA RELEASE: DATA FELLOWS AND SONERA JOIN FORCES TO CREATE SECURE VPN S...
Message-ID: <83cc5099.3664104d@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 71
Lines: 10


Hi Mimmi

Okay...this can be distributed as of today?

Thanks
phil




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: eschuman@cmp.com
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 08:22:24 -0800 (PST)
To: press-english-technical@lists.datafellows.com
Subject: Re: MEDIA RELEASE: DATA FELLOWS AND SONERA JOIN FORCES TO CREATE SECURE VPN S...
Message-ID: <852566CD.0059DBF4.00@NotesSMTP-01.cmp.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary..3999.1071713824.multipart/mixed"
Content-Length: 4595
Lines: 108

--Boundary..3999.1071713824.multipart/mixed
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Same request. May I be removed from this list as well?




falcon falcon  on 12/01/98 11:20:14 AM

Please respond to press-english-technical@lists.datafellows.com

To:   press-english-technical@lists.datafellows.com
cc:
bcc:  Evan Schuman/MHS/CMPNotes
Subject:  Re: MEDIA RELEASE: DATA FELLOWS AND SONERA JOIN FORCES TO CREATE
      SECURE VPN S...




Please remove my name from your email list.


Opencity@aol.com wrote:

> Hi Mimmi
>
> Okay...this can be distributed as of today?
>
> Thanks
> phil





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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "dan_verton"@fcw.com
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 08:37:13 -0800 (PST)
To: press-english-technical@lists.datafellows.com
Subject: Re: bonjour
Message-ID: <852566CD.005B6DC4.00@zeus.fcw.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary..3999.1071713824.multipart/mixed"

--Boundary..3999.1071713824.multipart/mixed
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

this is not my list and I want off as well.




falcon falcon  on 12/01/98 11:19:07 AM

Please respond to press-english-technical@lists.datafellows.com

To:   press-english-technical@lists.datafellows.com
cc:    (bcc: Dan Verton/FCW)
Subject:  Re: bonjour




please remove my name from your email list.

Thierry Roch wrote:

> Ici tout va bien, merci.
>
> On esp


čre qu'une version fiable pour windows sortira un jour
> Salut
> ________________________________________
> roch@liberation.fr
> Tel : +33 (0) 1 42 76 17 68 - Fax: +33 (0) 1 42 76 02 24
> Informatique Libération http://www.liberation.fr





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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "dan_verton"@fcw.com
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 08:42:16 -0800 (PST)
To: press-english-technical@lists.datafellows.com
Subject: Re: MEDIA RELEASE: DATA FELLOWS AND SONERA JOIN FORCES TO CREATE	 SECURE VPN S...
Message-ID: <852566CD.005B872C.00@zeus.fcw.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary..3999.1071713824.multipart/mixed"
Content-Length: 4980
Lines: 127

--Boundary..3999.1071713824.multipart/mixed
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

please remove my name from the cc address when you send this... I'm on this
thing as well




eschuman@cmp.com on 12/01/98 11:21:21 AM

Please respond to press-english-technical@lists.datafellows.com

To:   press-english-technical@lists.datafellows.com
cc:    (bcc: Dan Verton/FCW)
Subject:  Re: MEDIA RELEASE: DATA FELLOWS AND SONERA JOIN FORCES TO CREATE
       SECURE VPN S...




Same request. May I be removed from this list as well?




falcon falcon  on 12/01/98 11:20:14 AM

Please respond to press-english-technical@lists.datafellows.com

To:   press-english-technical@lists.datafellows.com
cc:
bcc:  Evan Schuman/MHS/CMPNotes
Subject:  Re: MEDIA RELEASE: DATA FELLOWS AND SONERA JOIN FORCES TO CREATE
      SECURE VPN S...




Please remove my name from your email list.


Opencity@aol.com wrote:

> Hi Mimmi
>
> Okay...this can be distributed as of today?
>
> Thanks
> phil






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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mark Denny 
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 08:31:25 -0800 (PST)
To: press-english-technical@lists.datafellows.com
Subject: RE: MEDIA RELEASE: DATA FELLOWS AND SONERA JOIN FORCES TO CREATESECURE VPN S...
In-Reply-To: <852566CD%.0059DBF4.00@smtp-gate.mottmac.com>
Message-ID: <00444336010C01A0@smtp-gate.mottmac.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 853
Lines: 42


===== Original Message from PRESS-EN @ INTERNET 
{press-english-technical@lists.datafellows.com} at 1/12/98 16:21
>Same request. May I be removed from this list as well?
>
>
>
>
>falcon falcon  on 12/01/98 11:20:14 AM
>
>Please respond to press-english-technical@lists.datafellows.com
>
>To:   press-english-technical@lists.datafellows.com
>cc:
>bcc:  Evan Schuman/MHS/CMPNotes
>Subject:  Re: MEDIA RELEASE: DATA FELLOWS AND SONERA JOIN FORCES TO CREATE
>      SECURE VPN S...
>
>
>
>
>Please remove my name from your email list.
>
>
>Opencity@aol.com wrote:
>
>> Hi Mimmi
>>
>> Okay...this can be distributed as of today?
>>
>> Thanks
>> phil
===== Comments by MAD@MM-CROY (Mark Denny) at 1/12/98 16:27
Could you please stop sending me your emails. I think that some thing has 
gone wrong with your server.

Thanks.
Mark.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mark Denny 
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 08:52:04 -0800 (PST)
To: press-english-technical@lists.datafellows.com
Subject: RE: bonjour
In-Reply-To: <852566CD%.005B6DC4.00@smtp-gate.mottmac.com>
Message-ID: <04444336010C01A0@smtp-gate.mottmac.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


===== Original Message from PRESS-EN @ INTERNET 
{press-english-technical@lists.datafellows.com} at 1/12/98 16:38
>this is not my list and I want off as well.
>
>
>
>
>falcon falcon  on 12/01/98 11:19:07 AM
>
>Please respond to press-english-technical@lists.datafellows.com
>
>To:   press-english-technical@lists.datafellows.com
>cc:    (bcc: Dan Verton/FCW)
>Subject:  Re: bonjour
>
>
>
>
>please remove my name from your email list.
>
>Thierry Roch wrote:
>
>> Ici tout va bien, merci.
>>
>> On esp
>čre qu'une version fiable pour windows sortira un jour
>> Salut
>> ________________________________________
>> roch@liberation.fr
>> Tel : +33 (0) 1 42 76 17 68 - Fax: +33 (0) 1 42 76 02 24
>> Informatique Libération http://www.liberation.fr
===== Comments by MAD@MM-CROY (Mark Denny) at 1/12/98 16:43
Please remove me.

Mark.


Mott MacDonald Limited,
Registered in England No. 1243967
Registered office St. Anne House, 
20-26 Wellesley road, Croydon CR9 2UL
Tel: +44 (0) 181-774 2000 
Fax: +44 (0) 181-681 5706
Email Mad@mm-croy.mottmac.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Thierry Roch" 
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 08:06:30 -0800 (PST)
To: press-english-technical@lists.datafellows.com
Subject: bonjour
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Ici tout va bien, merci.

On espčre qu'une version fiable pour windows sortira un jour
Salut
________________________________________
roch@liberation.fr
Tel : +33 (0) 1 42 76 17 68 - Fax: +33 (0) 1 42 76 02 24
Informatique Libération http://www.liberation.fr




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Marita Näsman-Repo 
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 07:44:26 -0800 (PST)
To: df-pr-us@DataFellows.com
Subject: MEDIA RELEASE: DATA FELLOWS AND SONERA JOIN FORCES TO CREATE SECURE VPN SERVICES FOR THE NEXT MILLENIUM
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19981201174413.00910940@smtp.datafellows.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 3123
Lines: 77


Press Release					                For immediate release


DATA FELLOWS AND SONERA JOIN FORCES TO CREATE SECURE VPN SERVICES FOR THE
NEXT MILLENIUM

Espoo, Finland, December 1, 1998 -- Data Fellows, the leading global
security solutions vendor, and Sonera, the leading Finnish
telecommunications service provider, have announced a partnership to create
next-generation Intranet and extranet services.

The scope of the partnership is to develop a secure IP service platform by
combining Sonera's leading-edge telecommunications services with Data
Fellows' award-winning secure VPN and anti-virus products.

"Security is not a simple issue. We see leading telecommunications service
providers in a key position to help corporate customers reap the benefits
of the Internet without the inherent risks," says Risto Siilasmaa, CEO of
Data Fellows. "Over the years, Sonera has always paved the way with
innovative telecommunications services. Well-managed strong security is the
logical next step."

"Our key challenges are the increasing demand for mobility and the
increasing use of extranets between companies," says Jukka T Leinonen,
Managing Director of Sonera Solutions. "Managed IP-based virtual private
networks with a functioning Public Key Infrastructure (PKI) and strong
security constitute the foundation for future corporate information
systems. Data Fellows can provide us with standards-based, proven security
with globally available strong encryption." The first products and services
will be announced early next year.  
  
Data Fellows' groundbreaking F-Secure products provide a unique combination
of globally available strong encryption, revolutionary anti-virus software
and policy based management. Data Fellows products are relied on by the
world's largest industrial corporations, best-known telecommunications
companies and major airlines, several European governments, post offices
and defence forces as well as several of the world's largest banks. Data
Fellows was selected one of the Top 100 Technology companies in the world
by Red Herring magazine in September 1998.

Sonera Ltd is Finland's leading telecommunications company, with
subsidiaries and associated companies in 14 countries. Internationally,
Sonera is a forerunner in the rapidly growing field of mobile, data, and
media communications. In 1997, Sonera's net sales amounted to FIM 8
billion, and operating profit was FIM 1.7 billion. The Group employs 8,200
people.

For more information, please contact

USA:
Data Fellows Inc.   
Mr. Pirkka Palomaki, Product Manager
Tel. +1 408 938 6700, fax  +1 408 938 6701
E-mail:  Pirkka.Palomaki@DataFellows.com

Europe:
Data Fellows Oy
Mr. Jukka Kotovirta, Director, Service Provider Business Unit
PL 24     
FIN-02231 ESPOO 
Tel.  +358 9 859 900, fax. +358 9 8599 0599
E-mail: Jukka.Kotovirta@DataFellows.com
or visit our web site at http://www.DataFellows.com

Sonera Solutions Ltd.
Mr. Timo Korpela, Head of Product Development
Tel. +358 2040 63296, fax. +358 2040 64652
E-mail: Timo.Korpela@sonera.net

--
Marita.Nasman-Repo@DataFellows.com, 
World-Wide Web http://www.DataFellows.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "kryz" 
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 09:16:33 -0800 (PST)
To: "Cypherpunks" 
Subject: Fw: 1998-11-30 Memorandum to Department Heads on Electronic Commerce
In-Reply-To: <19981130204732.0.MAIL-SERVER@pub1.pub.whitehouse.gov>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 1378
Lines: 41




----------
| Date: maandag 30 november 1998 19:47:00
| From: The White House
| To: Public-Distribution@pub.pub.whitehouse.gov
| Subject: 1998-11-30 Memorandum to Department Heads on Electronic Commerce
|
|
|                             THE WHITE HOUSE
|
|                      Office of the Press Secretary
| ________________________________________________________________________
| For Immediate Release                                  November 30, 1998
|
|
|
|                             November 30, 1998
|
|
|
| MEMORANDUM FOR THE HEADS OF EXECUTIVE DEPARTMENTS AND AGENCIES
|
| SUBJECT:  Successes and Further Work on Electronic Commerce
|
|
|     The Internet and electronic commerce have the potential to
| transform the world economy.  The United States Government is committed
| to a market-driven policy architecture that will allow the new digital 
| economy to flourish while at the same time protecting citizens' rights 
| and freedoms.
|
|     Today my Administration has released a report that details the
| significant progress made on the implementation of my Directive on
| Electronic Commerce of July 1, 1997, and its accompanying policy
| statement, "A Framework for Global Electronic Commerce."  The electronic
| commerce working group that has coordinated the United States
| Government's electronic commerce strategy has accomplished a great deal



From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Bill" <4u00@321media.com>
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 19:54:16 -0800 (PST)
To: club333@sgu-ns1.sg-u.ac.jp
Subject: Process Serving Court Filing Searches
Message-ID: <199812020356.MAA13831@sgu-ns1.sg-u.ac.jp>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 246
Lines: 14



http://www.select-document.com

///////////////////////////////////////////////////
To be removed from future mailings, please send an
email to mailto:4lemy@lycosmail.com?subject=remove
///////////////////////////////////////////////////







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: cabgirly333@hotmail.com
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 21:12:50 -0800 (PST)
To: cabgirly334@hotmail.com
Subject: Build Your Own Cable TV Descrambler for less than $9.99.
Message-ID: <9812020512.AB02555@chrivb01.cch.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 4995
Lines: 117



            Cable Television Descrambler - Easy To Make !
       Build your own Cable Television Descrambler with ONLY 7 parts 
                         from Radio Shack for UNDER $10.00.

         (don't hit reply, please check bottom of message for more references)
---------------------
(Last minute update: "I've seen my letter and instructions sent by individuals that besides violating copy-right laws, are neither responding to the customer nor providing the original, complete set of plans and instructions. Please be advised you are risking your money and patience by ordering from individuals who know nothing regarding this tech/electrical matter" --Raul Mendez)

Build your own Cable Television Descrambler with ONLY 7 parts 
from Radio Shack for UNDER $10.00.

REQUIRED SUPPLIES:
==================
1 - Radio Shack mini-box (part #270-235)
1 - < watt resistor. 2.2k-2.4k ohm (part #271-1325)
1 - 75pf-100pf variable capacitor (special order)
2 - F61A chassis-type connectors (part #278-212)
12" - No. 12 solid copper wire
12" - RG59 coaxial cable


Tools required:  screwdriver & drill.  Soldering gun & solder (optional).

Get ALL the Premium Movie Channels, Pay per View and Adult Entertainment 
Channels for... FREE, FREE, FREE !!!

Now, if I have your attention... let me tell you how this fantastic 
opportunity came about.

My name is Raul.  I live in New York City, New York.  I have season 
tickets to our citys hockey team.  I invited a friend of mine to one 
of the games this last October.  

He said, "Id love to go if you can have me back home by 10:00 p.m."  I
told him that some games run just past 10:00 p.m. and would he mind we 
stay if the game was close. 

His response was, "No, tonight is the Mike Tyson - Evander Holyfield 
boxing match and I have it on pay per view"  I said, "do you mind if I
watch the fight with you"?  He said, "sure, no problem".  So we go watch
this great fight on cable pay per view and we are the only two guys at 
my friends house.

After the fight (since it was so good) I offered to pay half of the cost
for the fight.  My friends answer was, "no, no, thats not necessary... 
I got the fight for FREE!".  I said to him, "for free, dont those fights
cost around $40.00 a pop?"  He told me, "yes, they do, but I bought a 
cable descrambler box from an acquaintance of mine for $300.00".

He further explained that this "little black box" gets ALL the pay per 
view events available!  It also tunes in ALL the premium movie channels
and ALL the adult entertainment channels.

My response (without hesitation) was, "I gotta have one!"  "$300.00, no
problem where do I pay !!!"  Im serious, I was excited.  Lifetime 
premium movie channels, pay per view and adult entertainment all for a 
one-time fee of $300.00... no way!!!

"No way" was right.  The guy that sold my buddy the box was no where to 
be found. I was really disappointed.  It was now time for desperate 
measures.  I begged and pleaded with my friend until he agreed to let me
take his box apart piece by piece to see how to make one for myself.  

Luckily it was very easy, if it wasnt simple I knew their was a slight
chance it was not going back together so pretty.

Now the rest is history... Ive got my own box which I built with my own
two hands.

Would you like to build one yourself ?!?!  

If so, would you pay $300.00.  Maybe so, maybe not.  Probably not, unless
you saw one work first.  But since that is not possible, I will sell you
a complete set of instructions on how to build one yourself for a measly
$9.99.  However, at that price YOU MUST ALSO ENCLOSE A #10 SELF ADDRESSED STAMPED ENVELOPE WITH 55 CENTS POSTAGE AFFIXED.

You might ask, is this some type of rip-off scam deal.  The answer is NO!
Everything has specific mechanics of how and why they do what they do.  

We are just used to flipping a switch or pushing a button or moving the
mouse across our computer pads.  It all happens because of a certain set 
of processes.  The cable television descrambler is no different.

However, for legal purposes I must add to this letter that this offer and
set of instructions shall be void where prohibited by law and the 
assembling of parts necessary to make this "little jewel" work is for 
educational purposes only. 

To order a set of the instructions send $9.99 by cash, check or money 
order payable to: Raul Mendez Enterprises,  50 Lexington Av suite 209, New York city, NY 10010

I will mail your order out within 24 hours of receiving it.  Further, I 
will give you a refund upon written request if you are unsatisfied for 
any reason.

Happy Holidays !!!

Sincerely,

Raul Mendez


P.S.:  The  use of this mini-box if you choose to go on and see if your 
creation works requires no alteration of your existing cable system.
You simply screw it in, right behind your television.

P.P.S.:  Without the instructions its like figuring out how to set the
clock on your VCR.  With the instructions, you are guaranteed success.



 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "ZDNet Announce" 
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 20:30:49 -0800 (PST)
To: "ZDNet" 
Subject: Check out the New ZDNet and ZDTV Forums!
Message-ID: <199812030315.WAA22510@america.interstep.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 3044
Lines: 72


Dear Forum Member:

If you are reading this message, you are a participant in the ZDNet
or ZDTV message boards (a.k.a. ZDNet Forums or Community). I would
like to take this opportunity to tell you about some changes that
will affect you on December 8.

We are moving from our current forum software, called Podium, to
version 1.0 of new forum software created by Deja News. On Dec. 8,
when you follow a link or bookmark to one of our forums, you will be
directed to the new software automatically. You don't have to download
or install anything -- our forums remain entirely Web-based -- but the
apearance and functions of the forums will be different. All your
messages posted in Podium are being brought over, so your conversations
won't miss a beat.

We have been testing the Deja News software in three of our current
forums for several months, and we have also created a test forum so
you can try out the software and give us your feedback.  We know that
any change is disruptive; you will have to re-learn some forum
functions and get used to a new interface. We apologize in advance for
the hassle. We felt the switch to the Deja News software was the only
way to improve the  performance and reliability of the forums, plus
the new software has a better search engine and great possibilities
for integrating Usenet newsgroups into our offerings.

If you have not yet had a chance to try out the new software, you can
do so at any one or all of the forums listed below:

Test Forum
http://chkpt.zdnet.com/chkpt/zdn11202/f5.dejanews.com/frames/test.html

Help Channel General Discussion
http://chkpt.zdnet.com/chkpt/zdn11202/f5.dejanews.com/frames/generaldiscussion.html

Microsoft Office
http://chkpt.zdnet.com/chkpt/zdn11202/f5.dejanews.com/frames/msoffice.html

Gadget Gab
http://chkpt.zdnet.com/chkpt/zdn11202/f5.dejanews.com/frames/gadget.html


Please give us your feedback about the new software in the Test
Forum.  We are using your comments to make the software work better,
so we appreciate as much of participation as possible.

In addition to the new software, we will be merging several forums.
Over the months, ZDNet and ZDTV have created a number of overlapping
message boards, and some forums have lost their appeal to users. As
part of the switch to Deja News, we'll be integrating forums on
similar topics. As a result, expect most forums to be busier after Dec. 8.

Thank you for your time and effort.  We are looking forward to seeing
you in the new forums, and we are glad to have you as a part of the
ZDNet Community. We will send you just a few more e-mails like this
one to keep you up-to-date on the switch, but we promise not to
continue spamming you after the transition is complete.

Regards,

Wendy Frankwich
ZDNet and ZDTV Community
http://chkpt.zdnet.com/chkpt/zdn11202/www.zdnet.com
http://chkpt.zdnet.com/chkpt/zdn11202/www.zdtv.com

_______________________________________________________________________
To be removed from this list, simply reply to this message with
"unsubscribe" as your subject.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: jt9@mail.dsd.it
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 21:48:41 -0800 (PST)
To: user@the.internet
Subject: Hi
Message-ID: <199812040530.GAA19346@www.dsd.it>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 923
Lines: 22


Do you know what the number one factor is, that will determine whether your business is a
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what do you do?  Direct email is one of, if not thee most effective method of advertising in 
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will send your advert for you.  We have gone through painstaking methods to insure that we
have the the most quality lists on the Internet.  We send your ad for your, all you have to do
is create it.


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350,000 addresses - $250
500,000 addresses - $350
1 million addresses - $700

For advertising to 3 million or more ask about our special rates.

For more information or to place an ad call IMC Marketing at (909) 627-3557




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 5dfs@mail.gnosis.it
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 02:06:24 -0800 (PST)
To: user@the.internet
Subject: ADV: We'll Pay You To Make Our Phone Ring
Message-ID: <199812040937.KAA24534@mail.gnosis.it>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 2427
Lines: 49


Dear Business Friend,
You are receiving this offer because we have corresponded in the past, or
because you have been referred to me as someone interested in business
opportunities. If this message has reached you in error, please accept my
apologies. To remove your address from future mailings, please reply with
"remove" in the subject heading.
********************************
ALL YOU DO IS ADVERTISE OUR 800 NUMBER - THAT'S ALL !
* You get $100 for EVERY SALE plus ENDLESS RESIDUALS!
* Just MAKE OUR PHONE RING !
* Easiest, most profitable business around
* You can earn thousands of $$ your very first month !
* No selling required - our expert sales team closes sales for you
* We send out huge checks weekly
* No meetings, phone calls, no hassles
* Advertise any way you want - email, flyers, classifieds, postcards, etc.
If you are an average person like myself who has always wanted
to generate a large easy income from home, but you don't want
the hassles of inventory, marketing plans, or direct selling,
then THIS IS FOR YOU. All you do is advertise our 800 number
and your ID number, and our trained staff do the rest for you.
Don't just take my word for it - listen to some amazing
testimonials from existing members:
1-888-446-6951 (He made $10,000 his first month)
1-888-446-6949 (He erased all his debt in one month)
1-888-715-0642 (She averages $1,000 every week)
1-888-703-5389 (He can't believe it's this easy)
You also have the peace of mind of offering one of the best
products available: a lifetime membership in a discount service
providing guaranteed low prices on over 250,000 products and
services. Hotel & Travel Services, Major Appliances, Dentists,
Legal Services, 7.5 cents/minute long-distance, Groceries...
YOU CAN START TODAY - CALL NOW:
1-800-811-2141 (ID # 66078) 8am - 10pm CST Mon-Sat
*****************
P.S. I am really excited about this and YOU souuld be too.  I called and
checekd this out it in not a two or 3 tier  pusiness oppertuniety it is one
level ONLY..you get payd for the people you bring in and have to do nothing
else. The savings in they buying end of it is really great too from there
catalog of 250,000 items is absolutely great also so I joined and hope you
do to if not for the business end but for what you going to save  buying
alone it is worth it...
     THANKS  FOR YOU TIME
       Michael T. Kacer reply to me with your # & e-mail and i will help u
if i can




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Teemu Hukkanen 
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 11:05:13 -0800 (PST)
To: press-english-technical@lists.datafellows.com
Subject: Apology for mixup in press release mailing list
Message-ID: <19981204210202.A1828@datafellows.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 215
Lines: 10


Due to an unsuspected flaw, our mailing lists were slightly
misconfigured which allowed replies to the original press release
email to be forwarded to all recipients in the list.

--
 postmaster@datafellows.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "ZDNet Announce" 
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 20:30:18 -0800 (PST)
To: "ZDNet" 
Subject: ZDNet and ZDTV Forums Update
Message-ID: <199812060315.WAA24865@america.interstep.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 4678
Lines: 102


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
This is the second message from ZD to all the members of our
message boards. It contains information and tips about a coming
 transition to new software. You will receive just one or two more
of these messages in the coming week.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

When you go to the ZDNet or ZDTV forums on Tuesday,  Dec. 8, you
will find the new Deja News software in place. You will see some
differences in the way the message boards operate, so you may need
to  experiment a little.  If you are very familiar with our current
forum features, it will take some time to become comfortable with
the new system. We apologize for the inconvenience this causes and
are trying to make the switch as painless as possible. We'll have
dozens of sysops online answering your questions every day. We also
will update the on-line help files frequently to highlight key
differences between the current software, called Podium, and the
new version.

Below are some advance hints for everyone making the switch to Deja
News.  You can try these features out in now our Test Forum at
http://f5.dejanews.com/frames/test.html

** Messages that you have not yet read appear in bold. **
That's how Deja News tells you which posts are new since you last
visited. Once you open and read a message, the bolding goes away.
You have the option to Mark Thread As Read, and an entire set of
messages will lose their  boldness.  In addition, you can Mark All
As Read, and every message in that  forum will become un-bold.

** When you leave a forum and come back later, messages that you
read previously are not displayed. **
You can see these already-read messages by clicking the Show All
button.

Here's the tricky part: If you read all the messages in a thread
and then someone  adds another, the entire thread will be displayed
and most messages will not be  bold. Just the new message that you
have not yet read will appear with bolded text. (In our current
message board software, messages that you had already  read remain
hidden when a new message is added.)

** On Tuesday, some messages that you have read will be marked as
unread. **
We will migrate all the messages currently in Podium over to the
new Deja News software. However, we cannot keep track of which
messages every user has read. As a result, all messages will be
marked initially as unread. You can easily take care of this by
doing one of two things:

1) Use the Mark All As Read  found at the top of the new message
board. This approach is fastest, but it might make you overlook
some messages you really do want to read.

2) Use the Mark Thread As Read text link found at the beginning
of each thread. This approach is a more selective way to get
up-to-date, but it takes a bit more time.

** You can Expand or Collapse the entire thread list. **
The thread list shows all the individual "conversations" happening
in the  message board. The default setting shows you just the
starting topic in each  thread.  If you want to see a detailed
list of all the replies to that initial  message,  just click the
Expand button. To shrink your threads list again, click the
Collapse  button. Collapse and Expand are basically toggle buttons.
Show All and Show  Unread are also toggle buttons, and they oper-
ated  independently of the Collapse and Expand controls.

** Your browser's reload button works in the forums. **
In Podium, when you hit reload in your browser, your forum display
settings would disappear.  In the upcoming Deja News software, your
settings are preserved. So go ahead and hit reload to see if new
messages have been added while you are online -- it works!

** Give Search a try. **
The Deja News fast search capability will help you track down
messages easily.  You can look across all the forums or in just one,
for any text in a message. If  you choose Mark All As Read but want
to locate an earlier message, use the Search function.

Thanks for taking the time to read this note. I hope these tips
give you some insight into the new software and make the switch
smoother. We're adding user-suggested info to our help file with
the launch of the new forums next week, so keep those comments
and ideas coming!

We look forward to seeing you in the new forums, and we are glad
to have you as a part of the ZD Community.


Wendy Frankwich
ZD Community Central
http://chkpt.zdnet.com/chkpt/zdn11204/www.zdnet.com
http://chkpt.zdnet.com/chkpt/zdn11204/www.zdtv.com

_______________________________________________________________________
To be removed from this list, simply reply to this message with
"unsubscribe" as your subject.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: promo124@hotmail.com
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 01:19:58 -0800 (PST)
To: promo127@hotmail.com
Subject: Frequent Asked Questions Re: $9.99 to build your own
Message-ID: <199812060919.BAA06673@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 3754
Lines: 96




              (FAQ) Frequent Asked Questions --CABLE TV DESCRAMBLER
(do not hit the reply button, this message is generated automatically for
 those interested in the product. You'll receive this message only once)

 Hello!!!   =)

 "Thank you for requesting more information about the Cable Television 
 Descrambler.
 I've been asked so many good questions that I left unanswered in my
 first letter.  For that reason, I have put together this Question & Answer letter. 
 I apologize in advance for not being able to answer each of your  
 questions personally.  The response has been overwhelming. "
 
 Q: Will the descrambler on Fiber, TCI, Jarrod and satellite systems? 
 A: The answer is YES.  In respect to satellite, you just get MORE stuff!  
 
 Q: Do I need a converter box? 
 A: This plan works with or without a converter box.  Specific instructions 
 are included in my plans for each! 
 
 Q: Where can I find the 75pf-100pf variable capacitor, Radio Shack doesn't
 have it?   
 A: Many Radio Shacks do have it.  However, you have two other  
 options.  1st call a radio speciality supply store in your area that  
 is listed in the yellow pages.  2nd you can order the capacitor from me. 
 If needed I will mail you as many as you need for the price (s) below. I'm not trying to make a profit out of it, just want to help you. I'll wrap it carefully and send it to you only if you send me a self addressed #10 size padded envelope,  with 64c postage affixed.	

1-10 	      75pf - 100pf variable capacitor      	$12.99 ea.		
20-Up 		.....................................      $ 10 ea.
 
 Q: Can the cable company detect that I have the box? 
 A: No, the signal descrambles right at the box and does not move back  
 through the line.
 
 Q: Do I have to alter my existing cable system, television or VCR? 
 A: The answer is no. 
 
 Q: Does this work with my remote control? 
 A: The answer is no.  It's a manual kind of thing... but very easy.   
 Have your spouse or significant other get off the couch to do the deed! 
 
 Q: Can you email me the plans? 
 A: No, the plans come with an easy to follow picture guide. 
 
 Q: Does this work everywhere across the country? 
 A: I have friends in four states and one in England and Brasil that use the same  
 parts and the same plans and they are all successful. 
 
 Q: Is this deal guaranteed? 
 A: Yes, if you are unhappy for any reason I will refund your money. 
 
 Q: Is this a rip off or a scam? 
 A: No, if it were I'd charge $50.00 or more for the plans.  Be sure I not  
 going to damn myself to hell by ripping you off for a measly $9.99 or  
 so.
 
  Q: When I order, when will I get my stuff? 
 A: I mail out all orders within 24 hours of receiving it... IF YOU SUPPLY  
 A SELF ADDRESSED, STAMPED RETURN ENVELOPE WITH 55 CENTS POSTAGE AFFIXED. 
 
 Q: Again, How much does it cost to get the instructions plans and the easy to follow diagrams? 
 A:To order a set of the instructions send $9.99 by cash, check or money  
 order payable to: RMS Enterprises  Send to:  50 Lexington Ave, Suite 209 /  New York City, NY  10010.
  
 Q: Can you give me a list of the parts again? 
 A: Yes.
  1 - Radio Shack mini box (part #270-235) 
 1 - 1/4 watt resistor 2.2K - 2.4K ohm (part #271-1325) 
 1- 75pf-100pf variable capacitor (special order) 
 2 - F61a chassis-type connectors (part #278-212) 
 12" no. 12 solid copper wire 
 12" RG59 coaxial cable
 
 Q: I lost your address, could you give it to me again. 
 A: 50 Lexington Ave, Suite 209 /  New York City, NY  10010 USA 
 
 Q: How can I pay for this? 
 A: Check, Money Order or Cash.  Sorry, no credit cards accepted.
 
 
 I look forward to your order.

Raul Mendez Enterprises   (RMS Enterprises)
  
 Kindest Personal Regards,
 
 
     Raul Mendez






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: BannerExplode@usa.net
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 05:07:24 -0800 (PST)
To: FreebieLover@hotmail.com
Subject: Freebie, Freebie - How to get heavy traffic to your web site!
Message-ID: <199812061317.FAA21334@baynet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 1467
Lines: 51



                      ***********************

Greetings freebie lovers,

We all know that to make money with a web site you need lots of
traffic! This takes mass advertising or top status on many search
engines. 

We have found a better way that will get your banner on over
50,000 other web sites permanently, for life! When Net Surfers click
on your banner they will see your site pop up on their browser!
This method, of "HyperLinked Banners" is the most powerful method of
getting heavy traffic, to any web site, ever developed.

The "Banner Explode System" can be installed on your web site
in an hour. Then it spreads to other web sites and keeps re-
generating forever. Your hyperlinked banner will be on 1,000's and
1,000's of web sites around the world!  It is very prolific.

  NOTHING WORKS BETTER FOR GETTING TRAFFIC TO YOUR WEB SITE!

To get access to the "Banner Explode System", just fill out the
order form below and Snail Mail by U.S.P.S...... You will get
everything you need in just a few days! ABSOLUTELY FREE !!!

We are sure you will be delighted with our "Banner Explode
System!"  

     ------------ PRINT ------- CUT ----------------

******* NEATLY FILL IN THE FOLLOWING INFORMATION *******

Name:
Address:
City/St/Zip:
Phone:
Email address:

Mail this order form with a self addressed, stamped, #10 business
envelope to:

Banner Explode System
P.O. Box 66781
Phoenix, AZ 85082

     ====== SATISFACTION GUARANTEED - It's FREE ====== 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: times@caxton.newsint.co.uk
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 11:57:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199812061957.TAA25102@caxton.newsint.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 1625
Lines: 46


Dear Reader,
  
We are happy to provide feedback about The Times/Sunday Times
website, in the first of an occasional series of news briefs . . . 
          
Investment boosts access speed
  
The site is determined to make continual improvements for its
readers.  Significant extra cash is being channelled into making it the
fastest, easiest navigated and most innovative publishing site on the web.
  
Recent months have brought enormous increases in traffic, and you
may have noticed the odd download or access delay. We are concerned about
this just as you are, so have increased our bandwidth significantly. We
already have much better access speeds.
  
But our investment doesn't stop there: we will soon add increased
server capacity, so we can provide a range of exciting new features in the
next few months.
  
Thank you for your continued commitment to The Times & The Sunday
Times site. We welcome all comments or suggestions to
webmaster@the-times.co.uk  
  
The Times & The Sunday Times site launches "News First"
  
The UK's first extensive consumer newspaper-based rolling news and
preview service went live on November 26.
  
The free service includes headline news tickers on the registration
and home pages and bulletins on the 10 main breaking stories from 7am-10pm
GMT, followed by previews of news and features from the following day's
offline edition. News headlines are backed both by paragraph-sized
bulletins and links to relevant stories on the day's newspaper site.
  
Best wishes,
  
  
Mike Murphy
Managing Editor
News International Internet Publishing
(The Times and The Sunday Times online)




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: urbr4kan@rto.dec.com
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 23:34:32 -0800 (PST)
To: guy@earthlink.net
Subject: info requested
Message-ID: <199812070734.IAA26004@ns.de.ibm.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 467
Lines: 24



UNIVERSITY DEGREE PROGRAMS

Increase your personal prestige and money 
earning power through an advanced 
university degree. 

Eminent, non-accredited universities will 
award you a degree for only $200. 

Degree granted based on your present 
knowledge and experience.  No further 
effort necessary on your part.

Just a short phone call is all that is required for a 
BA, MA, MBA, or PhD diploma in the field of your 
choice. 

For details, call 602-230-4252





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 11:18:39 -0800 (PST)
To: Recipient List Suppressed:;
Subject: DCSB: Ira Heffan and Mike Schmelzer; "Software Patents" and Digital Commerce
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 6083
Lines: 153



--- begin forwarded text


Mime-Version: 1.0
X-Sender: rah@pop.sneaker.net
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 13:02:59 -0500
To: dcsb@ai.mit.edu, dcsb-announce@ai.mit.edu
From: Robert Hettinga 
Subject: DCSB: Ira Heffan and Mike Schmelzer; "Software Patents" and
 Digital Commerce
Cc: Ira Heffan , Mike Schmelzer ,
        Roland Mueller ,
        "Jonathan J. Rusch" 
Sender: bounce-dcsb@ai.mit.edu
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: Robert Hettinga 

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----


          The Digital Commerce Society of Boston

                       Presents

              Ira Heffan and Mike Schmelzer
             Testa, Hurwitz & Thibeault, LLP

         "Software Patents" and Digital Commerce



                Tuesday, January 5th, 1999
                       12 - 2 PM
             The Downtown Harvard Club of Boston
               One Federal Street, Boston, MA



Although the very idea of patenting software seems to be an anathema to much
of the programming community, patents on software continue to stream out of
the U.S. Patent Office.  Everyone involved in digital commerce applications,
which are by definition software-based, probably has heard about recent
events:  The Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit decided "State Street
Bank & Trust Co. v. Signature Financial Group," which explicitly ratified
patenting methods of doing business, and a spate of well-publicized patents
have issued claiming to cover such concepts as the virtual shopping cart and
the reverse auction.  As a prerequisite to discussing these recent
developments, the first part of our talk will provide an introduction to
patents.  We will explain what patents are and what they are not, and
describe the business goals that a patent can serve.  Then we will talk
about current events, and attempt to  put the _State Street_ case in
context.  We will present a survey of recently-issued patents (suggestions
welcome) related to digital commerce, and conclude with some speculation
about current trends, including a novel form of software patent with
potentially huge implications.

Ira Heffan (heffan@tht.com) and Mike Schmelzer (schmelze@tht.com) are patent
attorneys at Testa, Hurwitz & Thibeault, LLP (http://www.tht.com).  We will
be presenting our own personal views on this topic, and not the views of
Testa, Hurwitz & Thibeault, LLP or its clients.


This meeting of the Digital Commerce Society of Boston will be held on
Tuesday, January 5, 1999, from 12pm - 2pm at the Downtown Branch of
the Harvard Club of Boston, on One Federal Street. The price for lunch
is $32.50. This price includes lunch, room rental, various A/V hardware,
and the speakers' lunch.  The Harvard Club *does* have dress code:
jackets and ties for men (and no sneakers or jeans), and "appropriate
business attire" (whatever that means), for women.  Fair warning: since
we purchase these luncheons in advance, we will be unable to refund the
price of your lunch if the Club finds you in violation of the dress
code.


We need to receive a company check, or money order, (or, if we
*really* know you, a personal check) payable to "The Harvard Club of
Boston", by Saturday, January 2nd, or you won't be on the list for
lunch.  Checks payable to anyone else but The Harvard Club of Boston
will have to be sent back.

Checks should be sent to Robert Hettinga, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston,
Massachusetts, 02131. Again, they *must* be made payable to "The
Harvard Club of Boston", in the amount of $32.50. Please include your
e-mail address, so that we can send you a confirmation

If anyone has questions, or has a problem with these arrangements
(We've had to work with glacial A/P departments more than once, for
instance), please let us know via e-mail, and we'll see if we can work
something out.


Upcoming speakers for DCSB are:

February   Roland Mueller   European Privacy Directive
March      Jonathan Rusch   Internet Fraud

We are actively searching for future speakers.  If you are in Boston
on the first Tuesday of the month, and you would like to make a
presentation to the Society, please send e-mail to the DCSB Program
Commmittee, care of Robert Hettinga, .


For more information about the Digital Commerce Society of Boston,
send "info dcsb" in the body of a message to  . If you want to subscribe to the DCSB e-mail
list, send "subscribe dcsb" in the body of a message to  .

We look forward to seeing you there!

Cheers,
Robert Hettinga
Moderator,
The Digital Commerce Society of Boston


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

For help on using this list (especially unsubscribing), send a message to
"dcsb-request@ai.mit.edu" with one line of text: "help".

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: feedback@telescan.com
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 21:28:03 -0800 (PST)
To: CYPHERPUNKS@toad.com
Subject: Alpha Options Newsletter
Message-ID: <199812080528.VAA21163@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 2304
Lines: 21


Dear Fellow Investor,

If you're a trader/investor and like quick, large profits, you'll want to take a look at the Alpha Options Newsletter, available from Telescan through the TIP software or on Telescan's investor's supersite, Wall Street City (www.wallstreetcity.com).  Fast on the heels of 1997's gross profit of 322%, the newsletter portfolio has returned 179% as of Nov. 13!  Even more amazing is that return has been realized while holding an average of 80% cash!*  The newsletter, which has been published since April 1995, has evolved into an informative weekly report that uses key basic elements of technical analysis to generate quick profits, while adhering to a stringent money management system that cuts losses and rides gains.

The authors scan several hundred charts a week to identify the stocks that look ripe for short-term gains.  The newsletter pinpoints price targets and profit objectives for each recommendation and sets stops on open positions.  Once a position is entered, it's closely monitored and adjustments to targets or objectives are initiated if necessary.

The newsletter has had fabulous success over the past two years as money management guidelines have been set (and more importantly) followed to optimize the portfolio returns.  The newsletter offers a candid and unbiased opinion on stocks and recommends both calls and puts as justified by the market.  The AON portfolio typically holds between 5-15 open positions, with average being about 8 open positions.  The authors analyze each recommendation in detail and give specific targets for when to take profits.

The newsletter is published 48 times a year on Sunday evenings.  You can subscribe to this informative, educational newsletter online for just $30/month.  Call 1-800-324-4692 to subscribe.

So go ahead and give the newsletter a try and see how you too can generate substantial profits from trading options.

*The ideal starting portfolio size is $20,000, although a starting portfolio of $5,000 is sufficient. 

Disclaimer: Trading involves risk, including possible loss of principle and other losses. Your trading results may vary. No representations are being made that these techniques will result in or guarantee profits in trading. Past performance is no indication of future results.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 19:06:30 -0800 (PST)
To: Recipient List Suppressed:;
Subject: FWD: Read this. Now. And *act* on it. (was re: Building cryptoarchives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin Walls)
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 3495
Lines: 82


It's time, folks.

They can't win if we do anything at all, but they *will* win if we do nothing.

Robert Hettinga

--- begin forwarded text


X-Authentication-Warning: toad.com: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use
HELO protocol
To: cryptography@c2.net, gnu@toad.com
Subject: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin Walls
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 15:23:54 -0800
From: John Gilmore 
Sender: owner-cryptography@c2.net

The US Wassenaar initiative is an attempt to deny the public not only
all future strong crypto developments, but all existing ones.  As
today's message from Denmark makes clear, the freedom-hating
bureaucrats are threatening to prosecute a citizen merely for
publishing PGP on his web page.

Let's at least ensure that they don't eliminate *today's* strong
crypto, by replicating crypto archives behind each Berlin Wall they
threaten to erect.  Today we depend on a small number of archives (in
a small number of countries) containing source and binaries for PGP,
SSH, Kerberos, cryptoMozilla, IPSEC, and many other useful crypto
tools that we use daily.

Let's replicate these archives in many countries.  I call for
volunteers in each country, at each university or crypto-aware
organization, to download crypto tools while they can still be
exported from where they are, and then to offer them for export from
your own site and your own country as long as it's legal.  (The
Wassenaar agreement is not a law; each country has merely agreed to
try to change its own laws, but that process has not yet started.)

And if at some future moment your own government makes it illegal for
you to publish these tools, after all your appeals are denied, all the
pro-bono court cases rejected, and all the newspaper coverage you can
get has been printed, then restrict your web site so that only your
own citizens can get the tools.  That'll still be better than the
citizens of your country having NO access to the tools of privacy!

(I suggest putting these tools on a Web site on a machine that you
own, rather than on a web site where you buy space from someone else.
That way there'll be nobody for the freedom-squashers to threaten
except you.)

I'm sure that John Young's excellent http://jya.com site will be happy
to provide an index of crypto archives around the world, if people
will send him notices at jya@pipeline.com as your sites come up.
(Each archive should locally mirror this list, so that we won't depend
on a single site.)

Rather than having their desired effect of squelching crypto
distribution, perhaps their overbold move can inspire us to increase
strong crypto distribution tenfold, by making it clear to the public
that if you don't keep a copy on your own hard drive, the governments
of the world will be merciless in scheming to deny you access to it.
And if crypto developers have to publish on books, or rely on
smugglers to get crypto from country to country, then at least each
country will have its distribution arrangements already ready for when
the book is scanned or the smuggler arrives.

	John Gilmore

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 06:48:55 -0800 (PST)
To: Recipient List Suppressed:;
Subject: Re: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin  Walls (fwd)
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 1390
Lines: 50


Last spam on this subject. The rest is up to you.

Cheers,
Robert Hettinga

--- begin forwarded text


X-Sender: jya@pop.pipeline.com
Date: Tue, 08 Dec 1998 09:09:04 -0500
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
From: John Young 
Subject: Re: Building crypto archives worldwide to foil US-built Berlin
  Walls (fwd)
Mime-Version: 1.0
X-Mailing-List: cypherpunks@ssz.com
X-Loop: ssz.com
X-Language: English, Russian, German
Sender: owner-cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Precedence: first-class
Reply-To: John Young 
X-Loop: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net

In response to John Gilmore's call for a foil to US-Wassenaar
restrictions acoming, we've put up a preliminary list of international
cryptography sources for mirroring:

   http://jya.com/crypto-free.htm

This is a quick starter-kit and is far from comprehensive.
Contributions welcome.

Ken Williams offers an impressive (177MB) crypto/stego archive:

  http://www.genocide2600.com/~tattooman/cryptography/

--- end forwarded text


-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Richard.Bragg@ssa.co.uk
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 02:31:13 -0800 (PST)
To: phillip_wilder@ryder.com
Subject: Votes
Message-ID: <802566D4.0039658A.06@seunt002e.ssa.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 1860
Lines: 67


I wonder how the good 'ol Beeb will handle loads of votes from non-uk
people.  Especially how will they cope with anonymous remailers.

I know this is off-topic cypherpunks but lets indulge in a little gentle
humour.

---------------------- Forwarded by Richard Bragg/UK/SSA_EUROPE on 08/12/98
10:27 ---------------------------


Hilary Davidson
08/12/98 10:24

To:   UK BEC, UK Contractors BEC, Workfun
cc:
Subject:  Votes

This has to be done!!
---------------------- Forwarded by Hilary Davidson/UK/SSA_EUROPE on
08-12-98 10:23 AM ---------------------------


"Ashley Lane"  on 07-12-98 10:00:39 PM

To:   "Andy Randerson" , "Marcus Lane"
      , Hilary Davidson/UK/SSA_EUROPE,
      "Jonathan Cory" , "Jason Boxall"
      
cc:
Subject:  Votes




All,
We are going to try to influence the result of the voting for BBC
Sports Personality of the year. It has been decided that David Beckham
would provide most embarrassment to the organisers if winning, so
could you all e-mail your vote to the following address:

sports.review@bbc.co.uk

More importantly, can you forward this mail to all your mates &
acquaintances asap in the hope that they will participate. Your
co-operation in this matter is greatly appreciated






                     ________________________________


The information contained in this electronic mail message is confidential.
It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is
addressed and others authorised to receive it.  If the reader of this
message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
use, copying, dissemination or disclosure of this information is strictly
prohibited.
                     ________________________________






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: a14u@a14u.com
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 07:30:31 -0800 (PST)
To: advertiser@pw-market.com
Subject: Attention: All Sportsmen!!!!!!!!!!
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 526
Lines: 30








Sportsmen, are you into:

Hunting, Fishing, Camping, Hiking, Biking, 
Climbing, Sports, Playing or just Work?
Then you'll want to click here!
Because you'll love what you see!

http://www.a14u.com



_______________________________________________________________________________

If you would like to be removed from our mailing list,
simply reply with "Remove" in the subject heading.
You will be deleted from any further mailing.

_______________________________________________________________________________






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Trans World Specials" 
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 00:34:26 -0800 (PST)
To: Trans World Airlines Customers 
Subject: Trans World Specials Fare Sales
Message-ID: <19981208163901.24793.qmail@inet2.twa.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 10464
Lines: 322


Welcome to Trans World Specials for
 December 8th, 1998.  All tickets must
 be purchased at time of booking and not
 later than December 11, 1998. 
 
 Did you know you still have until December
 15th to travel and earn double Aviator 
 miles.  Don't miss your chance to double
 your earnings.  And your chance to earn
 up to 15,000 bonus Aviator miles has 
 been extended to January 31, 1999. 
 You can get the details at:
 http://www.twa.com/frq_trav_info/ft_aviators_bonus.html
 
 Beginning next week we will launch a great new
 enhancement to our Hot Fares. Rather than 
 phoning in your reservation, you will book 
 them directly on our website.  This will make
 it even easier for you save big. 
 
 With select fares of $89 and higher you
 can receive a discount by redeeming 
 only 5000 Aviator miles. 
 
 To celerate our return to Mexico City, TWA is
 offering a great fare from St. Louis to Mexico City.
 Book your ticket with TWA by 12/13/98. You can 
 stay as few as 3 days or as many as 30. Originate
 travel betweeen 1/31/99 and 2/28/99 and complete
 travel by 3/31/99.  Say yes to Mexico!
 
 We also have a great deal from New York to 
 St. Maarten, Netherlands to kick off our 
 new service. Depart New York on December 17-18
 and return December 19-21, 24, 25. 
 
 
 On to this week's Trans World Specials.
 
 ************INTERNATIONAL*************
 
 
 *****MEXICO CITY, MEXICO***********
 
 Roundtrip fare to MEXICO CITY, MEXICO from:
 (Depart January 31-February 28 and 
 return by March 31)
 
 City:		Fare:
 
 St. Louis	$198
 
 
 Roundtrip fare to ST. MAARTEN, NETHERLANDS from:
 (Depart December 17-18 and 
 return December 19-21, 24, 25)
 
 City:		Fare:
 
 New York, NY	$248
 
 ***********DOMESTIC*****************
 
 Roundtrip travel between ST. LOUIS, MO and:
 (Depart Friday 12/11 after 7 pm or all day 12/12
 and return Monday or Tuesday 12/14 or 12/15)
 
 Fare:	City:			5000 Miles Plus:
 
 $149	Denver, CO		$99
 $89	Milwaukee, WI		$39
 $159	New York, NY (LGA)	$109
 $149	Tampa, FL		$99
 $149	Washington, DC (DCA)	$99
 
 
 Roundtrip fares between ST. LOUIS, MO and:
 (Depart Saturday 12/12 and return Monday
 or Tuesday 12/14 or 12 15)
 
 Fare:	City:			5000 Miles Plus:
 
 $129	Austin, TX		$79
 $139	Hartford, CT		$89		
 $149	Ft. Lauderdale, FL	$99	
 $169	Sacramento, CA		$119
 $159	Salt Lake City, UT	$109
 $129	San Antonio, TX		$79
 $99	Shreveport, LA		$49
 
 
 Roundtrip fare between NEW YORK, NY (JFK) and:
 (Depart Saturday 12/12 and return
 Monday or Tuesday 12/14 or 12/15)
 
 Fare:	City:			5000 Miles Plus:
 
 $139	Orlando, FL		$89
 
 
 Roundtrip fare between AUSTIN, TX and:
 (Depart Saturday 12/12 and return 
 Monday or Tuesday 12/14 or 12/15)
 
 Fare:	City:			5000 Miles Plus:
 
 $219	Hartford, CT		$169
 $159	Milwaukee, WI		$109
 $219	New York, NY (LGA)	$169
 $199	Washington, DC (DCA)	$149
 
 
 Roundtrip fare between SAN ANTONIO, TX and:
 (Depart Saturday 12/12 and return 
 Monday or Tuesday 12/14 or 12/15)
 
 Fare:	City:			5000 Miles Plus:
 
 $219	Hartford, CT		$169
 $159	Milwaukee, WI		$109
 $219	New York, NY (LGA)	$169
 $199	Washington, DC (DCA)	$149
 
 
 Roundtrip fare between HARTFORD, CT and:
 (Depart Saturday 12/12 and return
 Monday or Tuesday 12/14 or 12/15)
 
 Fare: 	City:			5000 Miles Plus:
 
 $269	Sacramento, CA		$219
 $239	Salt Lake City, UT	$189
 $179	Shreveport, LA		$129
 
 
 Roundtrip fare between FT. LAUDERDALE, FL and:
 (Depart Saturday 12/12 and return 
 Monday or Tuesday 12/14 or 12/15)
 
 Fare:	City:			5000 Miles Plus:
 
 $179	Milwaukee, WI		$129
 $269	Sacramento, CA		$219
 
 
 Roundtrip fare between SACRAMENTO, CA and:
 (Depart Saturday 12/12 and return 
 Monday or Tuesday 12/14 or 12/15)
 
 Fare:	City:			5000 Miles Plus:
 
 $219	Milwaukee, WI		$169
 $269	New York, NY (LGA)	$219
 $269	Washington, DC (DCA)	$219
 
 
 Roundtrip fare between SHREVEPORT, LA and:
 (Depart Saturday 12/12 and return 
 Monday or Tuesday 12/14 or 12/15)
 
 Fare:	City:			5000 Miles Plus:
 
 $159	Denver, CO		$109
 $149	Milwaukee, WI		$99
 $179	New York, NY (LGA)	$129
 $219	Sacramento, CA		$169
 $179	Salt Lake City, UT	$129
 $159	Washington, DC (DCA)	$109
 
 
 Roundtrip fare between SALT LAKE CITY and:
 (Depart Saturday 12/12 and return 
 Monday or Tuesday 12/14 or 12/15)
 
 Fare:	City:			5000 Miles Plus:
 
 $179	Milwaukee, WI		$129	
 $239	Washington, DC (DCA)	$189
 
 
 For reservations call TWA at 1-800-221-2000 and ask
 for TWA's special Internet fares. To redeem Aviator 
 Miles with your fare, call the Aviators Service Center
 at 1-800-325-4815. 
 
 
 ****************ALAMO****************
 
 Alamo offers the following low rates 
 valid 12/11/98 - 12/14/98
 
 $16.49	Austin, TX - San Antonio,TX
 
 $17.49	Milwaukee, WI - St. Louis, MO
 
 $18.49	Salt Lake City, UT
 
 $19.49	Ft. Lauderdale, FL - Orlando, FL - Tampa, FL
 
 $20.49	Hartford, CT - Washington, DC(National) -Sacramento, CA
 
 $21.49	Denver, CO
 
 For reservations call Alamo at 1-800-GO-ALAMO and
 request rate code RT and ID # 443833. For online 
 reservations visit the Alamo website at:
 http://www.goalaomo.com
 
 ***********HILTON HOTELS/RESORTS******************
 
 $72	Hilton Crystal City at National Airport
 	Arlington, VA ( Free airport shuttle, 
 	located 5 minutes form the sights of D.C.)
 
 $79	Hilton Deerfield Beach/Boca Raton
 	Deerfield Beach, FL (Just 2 miles from the 
 	beach. Visit Town Center Mall & 
 	Boca Museum of Art)
 
 $59	Hilton Salt Lake City Airport 
 	Salt Lake City, UT (Located next to a lake,
 	stunning view of Wasatch Mountains)
 
 $89	Hilton St. Louis Frontenac-St. Louis, MO
 	(Free airport shuttle and parking, located
 	midtown near shopping and entertainment)
 
 $99	Hilton Clearwater Beach Resort - Clearwater, FL
 	(Located on 10 acres of white sandy beach
 	on the Gulf of Mexico)
 
 For reservations call Hilton at 1-800-774-1500 and
 ask for Hilton Value Rates. Visit Hilton online at:
 http://www.hilton.com
 
 ********TERMS & CONDITIONS**************
 
 GENERAL CONDITIONS: Fares shown are roundtrip, nonrefundable and are 
 subject to change. Changes to itinerary are not permitted. Fares do 
 not include Passenger Facility Charges of up to $12 depending on 
 itinerary.   Must use E-Ticketing for domestic travel. Credit card is 
 the only form of payment accepted when booked with TWA reservations. Offer is not available in conjunction 
 with any other discount, coupon or promotional offer. Seats are limited 
 and may not be available on all flights or days of the week. Tickets 
 must be purchased at time of booking and no later than 12/11/98. 
 Standby passengers are not allowed. Aviator miles not accrued when redeeming
 Aviator miles for fare discount. Travel is not allowed on Trans World 
 Express or any other carrier. Aviator miles are non-refundable and may not 
 be recredited to member's account once redeemed. Aviator earned and purchased
 upgrade certificates may not be used in conjunction with 5000 mile option. 
 
 
 DOMESTIC: All fares valid for outbound travel Saturday 12/12 and return travel
 Monday (12/14) or Tuesday (12/15).  Certain fares indicated are also available 
 for departure on Friday 12/11 after 7 p.m.  All travel to be completed by 12/15/98. 
 For 12/12 departures minimum stay is 2 days and maximum stay is 3 days. For 
 12/11 departures minimum stay is 3 days and maximum stay is 4 days. Select Fares $89
 and higher may be discounted by redeeming 5000 Aviator miles. 
 
 INTERNATIONAL: Tickets to Mexico City must be purchased at time of booking
 and not later than 12/13/98. Travel may originate in St. Louis only. Travel must begin between
 January 31 and February 28, 1999 and be completed by March 31, 1999.  Minimum stay
 is 3 days and maximum stay is 30 days. Tickets are nonrefundable and no changes 
 are permitted.  Fare does not include $32 in APHIS/Immigration/U.S. departure tax, $16.90 Mexico 
 International Airport Departure Tax, or $7.40 in Mexico International 
 Value Added Tax.  Travel to St. Maarten may originate in New York only. Depart 
 New York December 17-18 and return December 19-21, 24, 25. Electronic ticketing 
 is required. E-tickets may be issued by travel agency but booking must be done
 by TWA. Tickets are nonrefundable and non-changeable. Fare does not include 
 $47 in APHIS/U.S. Customs/Immigration/U.S. Departure Tax/Security Surcharge.
 
 Car Rental Conditions: 
 Taxes (including in California, VLF taxes ranging up to $1.89 per day), 
 registrations fee/tax reimbursement, and airport access fees/taxes, 
 if any, are extra. Optional CDW, liability insurance, fuel, additional
 driver fee, drop charges and other optional items are extra. Rates 
 higher for renters under age 25. Rates valid for economy rentals(unless stated otherwise by Alamo) 
 commencing on Friday and ending by 11:59 PM on Monday. Rates only valid 
 during week in which they are published via TWA Internet site. 
 A 24-hour advance reservation is required. Availability is limited. Two
 day minimum rental required. 
 
 Hotel Conditions: 
 Hilton Hotels and Resorts special rates are available only during 
 the specific week in which they are published via the TWA Hot 
 Deals Internet site and the HiltonNet Internet site. Limited 
 availability; rooms at these Hilton Value Rates are sold on a 
 first-come, first-served basis. Availability, rate, and terms of 
 occupancy are not guaranteed and will be confirmed at time of
 reservation. Participating hotels, rates and terms are subject 
 to change without notice. Single or double occupancy. Early check-in, 
 late check-out subject to availability. No extra charge for
 children when they stay in parents' or grandparents' room; 
 total room occupancy subject to local fire safety regulations
 and other applicable laws or regulations. Rates vary by season, 
 do not include any other fees or charges, including without 
 limitation state or local taxes or gratuities and are subject
 to change without notice. Advance booking required. Advance deposit
 may be required. Offer cannot be combined with any other special 
 discounts, coupons, certificates, special rates, promotional offers, 
 award stays, or meeting/group stays. Hilton reserves the right to 
 cancel any Hilton Value Rate at any time without notice. Hilton 
 is not responsible for the terms of other offers in the program, 
 or for any electronic, computer, telephone, security, virus 
 or any other problem or damage related to use of the 
 program or its offers.  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: harmike@discruise.com
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 19:18:18 -0800 (PST)
To: advertiser@sosglb.com
Subject: ACT NOW!!! Web Site Submission
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 1321
Lines: 25




                     *************************HOLIDAY SPECIAL ***********************

                                     Web Site Submission. Let the professionals

Submit your Site. Special ends DECEMBER 31. If your page qualifies and you are willing to make {in most cases] minor changes to your page for submission then 
Type "SUBMIT" in the subject field.  And leave your name, web address and or phone number and the best time to contact you. Submissions include the following.
1. If you QUALIFY, top 30 position, Goal is the top 10
2. Over 300 submission to advertising agencies
3. Submission to over 400 search engines
4 Submissions to top 100 Free for all links [FFA]
5. Reports on submission till your page is ranked
This one time special is for people that have tried to submit there site and have not been able to get ranked. If you have a site and have not yet submitted it please try this first and Save yourself money. If you have tried before and just can't get your page listed then we can help you. We know what it takes to get to the top. 
ACT NOW!!!! For only 49.95.......Remember your page has to Qualify first so please forward your address znd or  phone number so we can view your page.

Thank You,
Michael Hargrove
Preferred Enterprises
Advertise Agency/Search Engine Research Specialist





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 54+6
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 12:06:49 -0800 (PST)
To: people@the_internet.net
Subject: CALL 1-800-HOT-PUSSY....CALL NOW!!
Message-ID: <199812092006.MAA18532@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 651
Lines: 33


Hi Sexy,

I am lonely waiting for you to call me. Let me be the "Little Secret" in 
your life!

WARNING!!

These lines are extremely xxx-rated. Adults over 18 only!!! Sex starved
girls will give you a hot sexual experience you'll never forget. Not
recommended for people with weak hearts or bad backs!!!


Call 1-800-HOT-PUSSY(468-7877)

$2.99-$4.99 per min.        Billed by Teleworld
Visa/Mastercard/Amex      Must be over 18


Call 1-900-288-LIVE(5483) (US ONLY)

Billed as 1-ON-1 on your phone bill
$25.00 per call    Must be over 18


1-900-451-PUSSY(7877) (Canada)

$2.99-$4.99 per min. (US $)

CALL NOW!!!     CALL NOW!!!       CALL NOW!!!




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Edwin E. Smith" 
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 22:19:45 -0800 (PST)
To: "Ted Rallis" 
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19981210005732.006e5af8@mailhost.IntNet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 1719
Lines: 79


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Good idea! Simply put a copyright notice in the unencrypted sig of 
all encrypted email.

Edwin


At 12:28 PM 12/9/98 -0800, you wrote:
>If cryptography protecting intellectual property is exempt from 
regulation,
>my words are now my intellectual property -- all of them.
>
>Ted
>
>
>
>
>
>Jan Garefelt  on 12/08/98 11:11:33 AM
>
>To:   cypherpunks@toad.com
>cc:    (bcc: Ted Rallis/Certicom)
>Subject:  News on Wassenaar anyone?
>
>
>
>
>Does anyone have information on the new Wassenaar arrangement, or
>information on when official information will be available?
>
>I'm only interested in the crypto parts, and I have already read the
>Aaron/Reuter story found on
>http://www.crypto.com/reuters/show.cgi?article=912708583
>
>Thanks
>
>/Jan Garefelt
>
>
>
>
>
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP for Personal Privacy 5.0
Charset: noconv

iQA/AwUBNm9izEmNf6b56PAtEQLWOACdE1OSS7uKtTJqKHBSspIHXWliyngAmwb4
M/9u9ETy9CfxSPBm778FBUFl
=MVko
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


When freedom is outlawed.......Only outlaws will be free!

If cryptography is outlawed, pomz pvumbxt xjmm ibwf dszquphsbqiz.

Fun! Fast! Revealing! Try "The World's Smallest Political Quiz" at:
   http://www.self-gov.org/quiz.html

IS AIDS A GOVERNMENT/DRUG COMPANY HOAX?
   http://www.virusmyth.com/aids/index.htm

When you blame others, you give up your power to change.
Dr. Robert Anthony

Libertarian Party of Hillsborough County, FL
   http://home.tampabay.rr.com/lphc

When a place gets crowded enough to require ID's, social collapse is not far
away. It is time to go elsewhere. The best thing about space travel is that
it made it possible to go elsewhere.

Lazarus Long




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Nobody 
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 16:40:02 -0800 (PST)
To: undisclosed-recipients:;
Subject: Lecture Notes in Computer Science - free online Access
Message-ID: <199812100039.BAA17888@medoc.springer.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 765
Lines: 28


This Mail contains user ID and password!

------------------------------------------------------------
User ID: lncs
password: uid387xf
------------------------------------------------------------
Please keep in mind that:
- you agreed to keep these confidential
- systematic download is not permitted! 
------------------------------------------------------------
Your personal data as used in the registration form:
Surname:  cypherpunks
Christian name: cypherpunks
Institution/Company: cypherpunks
Department: cypherpunks
Streat/POBox: 101 cypherpunks drive
City: cypherpunks
Post Code: 00000
Country Code: BOLI
Phone: 
FAX: 
LINK Number: 
------------------------------------------------------------
from: link.springer.de/Lecture Notes in Computer Science




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mbishop645@aol.com
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 00:31:35 -0800 (PST)
To: hab@gamegirlz.com
Subject: Re:  Re:
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 1011
Lines: 34


>HaB wrote:
>
>>     That's a good place to begin, though.  "Would you send a letter to
>> someone without an envelope?"  "Then why not put your email in the
>> electronic equivalent of one?"
>> 
>> balance.
>
>Would I send a letter to someone without an envelope?
>One word: postcard.

Ahh, but would you tape a check for your phone bill to a postcard? Other 
than writing a greeting to someone what else do you use a postcard for?

 

---
Paul Weinstein 

           
       
                 

---
Windows 98(n) - 32-bit extensions and graphical shell for a 16-bit patch
to an 8-bit operating system originally coded for a 4-bit microprocessor,
written by a 2-bit company that can't stand 1 bit of competition.
---
Visit LCARS: A Macintosh Reference at http://www.weinstein.org/lcars





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Pete" 
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 07:57:47 -0800 (PST)
To: fhg662@telegraph.co.uk
Subject: Between our..
Message-ID: <199812101547.PAA21090@ns0.telegraph.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 899
Lines: 37

******************  InterScan Message (on ns0)

noname scanned and no virus found
*********************************************************




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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: tony@secapl.com
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 04:24:33 -0800 (PST)
To: maven@weirdness.com
Subject: Re:
In-Reply-To: <366F0A1A.654798B3@usachoice.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 482
Lines: 20


On Wed, 9 Dec 1998, Robert Wenzler wrote:

> 
> >     That's a good place to begin, though.  "Would you send a letter to
> > someone without an envelope?"  "Then why not put your email in the
> > electronic equivalent of one?"
> > 
> > balance.
> 
> Would I send a letter to someone without an envelope?
> One word: postcard.

But would you do all your correspondence on postcards? Pay bills, etc? I
think there is a place for postcards, but most mail is in envelopes. 






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ken Williams 
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 06:06:14 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Global Strike to protest Wassenaar
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 1608
Lines: 49


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----


Hi,

"Strike to protest Wassenaar!"

URL:  http://www.zanshin.com/~bobg/

"This is a global call for computer professionals to strike on 
Monday, 14 December, 1998 to protest the signing of the Wassenaar
Arrangement, an international treaty that imposes new restrictions 
on cryptographic software technology. The strike is meant to raise
awareness about the importance of cryptography, about the U.S. 
government's wrongheaded attempts to curtail its use, and about the 
strong-arm tactics used by the United States to pressure other 
countries into limiting their citizens' rights the way it has 
limited its own."


Regards,

Ken Williams

Packet Storm Security        http://www.Genocide2600.com/~tattooman/
E.H.A.P. Head of Operations  http://www.ehap.org/   ehap@ehap.org
NC State CS Dept  http://www.csc.ncsu.edu/   jkwilli2@unity.ncsu.edu
PGP DSS/DH/RSA Keys          http://www4.ncsu.edu/~jkwilli2/pgpkey/

___________________________________________________________________ 
Get Your Email Sniffed and Decrypted for Free at http://www.nsa.gov

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Charset: noconv

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dlun/4+U1J9xMmN8uYlUySxKr9XmharSXLJCmpmIaE0bwDwTx7Pkpw==
=DaVN
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Adam Shostack 
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 11:48:15 -0800 (PST)
To: Cypherpunks Mailing List 
Subject: Re: Lecture Notes in Computer Science - free online Access
In-Reply-To: <199812100039.BAA17888@medoc.springer.de>
Message-ID: <19981210150255.B10407@weathership.homeport.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 431
Lines: 22


Has the mirror been completed yet? :)


Adam

On Thu, Dec 10, 1998 at 01:39:28AM +0100, Nobody wrote:
| This Mail contains user ID and password!
| 
| ------------------------------------------------------------
| User ID: lncs
| password: uid387xf
| ------------------------------------------------------------
| Please keep in mind that:
| - you agreed to keep these confidential
| - systematic download is not permitted! 







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Robert Hettinga 
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 12:13:37 -0800 (PST)
To: dcsb@ai.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Global Strike to protest Wassenaar
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 1090
Lines: 36


At 9:05 AM -0500 on 12/10/98, Ken Williams wrote:

> "Strike to protest Wassenaar!"
>
> URL:  http://www.zanshin.com/~bobg/
>
> "This is a global call for computer professionals to strike on
> Monday, 14 December, 1998 to protest the signing of the Wassenaar
> Arrangement, an international treaty that imposes new restrictions
> on cryptographic software technology.

Now, *this* is interesting...

Anyone actually contemplating doing this?

I mean, we could *all* stand to do a little extra (meatspace) Christmas
shopping on Monday, right?

(Then, I guess, we could all do our cypherspace Christmas shopping on
*Tuesday*, just to drive the point home, stick-and-carrot-wise...)



Cheers,
Robert Hettinga
-----------------
Robert A. Hettinga 
Philodox Financial Technology Evangelism 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Kevlar 
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 16:36:06 -0800 (PST)
To: Missouri FreeNet Administration 
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19981210163644.0088ec30@max-web.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 3661
Lines: 99


Not only will Maximum Web Design (www.max-web.com) not be operating on
December 14, I have plenty of bandwith for a page with all the
participants. Would be happy to maintain it too...

Please e-mail me. anti-wassenaar@max-web.com

Only serious requests -=WITH A URL=- will be accepted.
Will post the address to the list asap.

At 10:11 AM 12/10/98 -0600, you wrote:
>
>This is an excellent idea...  I have just massmailed an announcement
>to our members: Missouri FreeNet will not be be operating on 14 December.
>Has anyone considered creating a (web?) list of persons and organizations
>who have committed to this strike? People are more likely to participate
>when they know they are no alone...
>
>Yours, 
>J.A. Terranson
>sysadmin@mfn.org
>
>--
>If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they
>should give serious consideration towards setting a better example:
>Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of
>unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in
>the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and 
>elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire
>populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate...
>This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States
>as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.
>
>The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers,
>associates, or others.  Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of
>those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the
>first place...
>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>On Thu, 10 Dec 1998, Ken Williams wrote:
>
>:Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 09:05:58 -0500 (EST)
>:From: Ken Williams 
>:To: cypherpunks@toad.com
>:Subject: Global Strike to protest Wassenaar
>:
>:-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>:
>:
>:Hi,
>:
>:"Strike to protest Wassenaar!"
>:
>:URL:  http://www.zanshin.com/~bobg/
>:
>:"This is a global call for computer professionals to strike on 
>:Monday, 14 December, 1998 to protest the signing of the Wassenaar
>:Arrangement, an international treaty that imposes new restrictions 
>:on cryptographic software technology. The strike is meant to raise
>:awareness about the importance of cryptography, about the U.S. 
>:government's wrongheaded attempts to curtail its use, and about the 
>:strong-arm tactics used by the United States to pressure other 
>:countries into limiting their citizens' rights the way it has 
>:limited its own."
>:
>:
>:Regards,
>:
>:Ken Williams
>:
>:Packet Storm Security        http://www.Genocide2600.com/~tattooman/
>:E.H.A.P. Head of Operations  http://www.ehap.org/   ehap@ehap.org
>:NC State CS Dept  http://www.csc.ncsu.edu/   jkwilli2@unity.ncsu.edu
>:PGP DSS/DH/RSA Keys          http://www4.ncsu.edu/~jkwilli2/pgpkey/
>:
>:___________________________________________________________________ 
>:Get Your Email Sniffed and Decrypted for Free at http://www.nsa.gov
>:
>:-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>:Version: PGPfreeware 5.0i for non-commercial use
>:Charset: noconv
>:
>:iQEVAwUBNm/VQJDw1ZsNz1IXAQGzygf/Zt/sP419T5dA1gY/Rru7ACtv6xWXWMUA
>:HDBQPFbGV8yviOIU7N2bHndWGtr+hjPcdoudoXlOwYF73/TybNSzs6J/iAF9yhSR
>:UmRKM+suH8FwJ90F+i36W8hCQrkhPYXEwXW4AWDEeGNKjZdRLApS/POMcnTWoTSK
>:iHwDsdE+AevhlcWuC1nk80AlSEVNE/B2zmbWGax12tciM2NxTc4AqtqI3BwXebVq
>:f/04ZC9515dR/XHGhtbmQ08sTNS9eQUG8H626XE58XtE+MOsVEJYjUQFDd9L13T2
>:dlun/4+U1J9xMmN8uYlUySxKr9XmharSXLJCmpmIaE0bwDwTx7Pkpw==
>:=DaVN
>:-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>:
>:
>
-Kevlar 





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Zoom Camera Offer 
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 17:57:17 -0800 (PST)
To: "XOOM Camera Offer" 
Subject: [ADV] Special XOOM Camera Offer
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 2879
Lines: 79


************************************
You have received this mailing as a result of joining our
information list.  If you would like to be removed from
this list please refer to the instructions found at the
bottom of this email.
************************************
Dear Aladdin Customer:

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Dave Del Torto 
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 19:17:19 -0800 (PST)
To: cryptography@c2.net
Subject: [ANNOUNCE] SF Bay Area Cypherpunks Dec '98 Physical Meeting
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 4447
Lines: 131


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

SF Bay Area Cypherpunks, 80th Chairborne Regiment

December 1998 Physical Meeting Announcement

General Info:

  Sat 12 December 1998
  1:00 - 6:00 PM
  Mrs. Fields' Cookies shop*
  Embarcadero 4, Embarcadero Center complex
   - A few paces east of Drumm and Washington St.
   - Ground floor, North side
   - Near the payphones
   - (* Ever been to a 2600 meeting? Same location. Follow your nose.)

   The December Physical Meeting of the San Francisco Bay Area Cypherpunks
   will be held on Saturday 12 December 1998 from 1-6 PM. This is an "Open
   Meeting on US Soil" and, as always, members of the Public are encouraged
   to attend.

Meeting Agenda:

   "Our agenda is a widely-held secret."

 1:00-2:00
   Informal pre-meeting gathering
    - Accepting cookies from strangers, etc.

 2:00-6:00
   Agenda TBD on-the-fly at the meeting... Suggested topics:
   
   EFF UDHR Event post-event discussion 
   Wassenaar recent news discussion
     
     
   Anonymous Coward conferencing systems
   Non-US based crypto archives/CD-burning
   The recent Dutch "Hippiepunkje" visit (some XS4ALL folks were here)
   Zero-Knowledge Systems beta update 
   Securify, Inc. 
   Harmless Little Boxes discussion
   CryptoRights Foundation (brief update)
   CIPHR'99 conference update 
   RSA 1999 Data Security Conference planning
   PGP Keysigning session:
    - Bring a printout of your key's fingerprint/keyid/size + photoID
    - Load your key info into your Pilot or Newton for IR beaming

 6:00-?
   Dinner at a nearby restaurant usually follows the meeting (see 
   meeting notes below).
   
Featured Speakers:

   (TBD)

Meeting Notes:

   At the December meeting, if there's consensus that it's cold outdoors
   at 2 PM, we'll probably move to the Uno's Pizzeria or Chevy's on the top
   level of the Embarcadero Complex (not the top floor of the tower, more
   like the fourth floor, accessible via the escalators or elevators).

   Someone please bring a GPS unit!

   If you haven't seen it yet, "Enemy of the State" is playing in SF at:
     AMC Kabuki 8          1:30-5:00-7:45-8:10-10:35
     Blumenfeld Regency   12:00-2:35-9:00
     Empire 3             11:30-2:15-5:00-7:45-10:30

Location Info:

   Southbound on Market St. from the Embarcadero/Steuart.
   HARD RIGHT on Drumm St. (not left on Spear).
   Beat it down to Washington St. (a block or two).
   RIGHT on Washington, into cul-de-sac.
   You can almost smell us from there. Or the cookies.
   The best way to get to Mrs. Fields' is to park _under_ it in the
   Embarcadero 4 parking lot, accessible from the cul-de-sac.
   NOTE: Get your PARKING VALIDATED and it's FREE!
   
   Food (non-magic cookies) and beverages are available at Mrs. Fields'.
   There are several other places nearby to grab a snack during the meeting.

Location Maps:

   Mrs. Fields' Cookies:
   
     (red star over Mrs. Fields)

............................................................................


IMPORTANT HEADS-UP for January!

The January Physical Meeting WILL NOT be held on the usual second 
Saturday of the month, but rather on 16 January 1999 (the THIRD 
Saturday) to coincide with the RSA 1999 Data Security Conference
 from 17-21 Jan), for which many cypherpunks
will be in town from all over the world.

We're currently scheduled (pending confirmation from the RSA 
conference chief, which seems likely) to have the meeting from 12 
Noon until 6 PM in the "B1" room (or possible "B2") in the SJCC (San 
Jose Convention Center), which is, conveniently, precisely where the 
RSA conference is being held.

Final meeting info will be available (here) at:
 

If you have any questions, please send them to the Jan co-organizers:
 Bill Stewart 
 Dave Del Torto 



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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Steve Orrin 
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 16:22:25 -0800 (PST)
To: Missouri FreeNet Administration 
Subject: Re: Global Strike to protest Wassenaar
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <367062FA.AA2ADF58@ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 3899
Lines: 99


I believe that a mass strike only hurts our employers, not the gov'ts
that are afflicting us with crap like Wassenaar. I propose that we
designate Monday "International Export Crypto Day". We should pick a
gov't agency or member (in a gov't other than our own) and email crypto 
to him/her. Mass effort will demonstrate the absolute idiocy of
regulations like Wassenaar. maybe even a mass chain letter with RSA in 3
lines of perl emailed all over the world and forward via typical chain
letter mechanisms. 

so
privsoft@ix.netcom.com


Missouri FreeNet Administration wrote:
> 
> This is an excellent idea...  I have just massmailed an announcement
> to our members: Missouri FreeNet will not be be operating on 14 December.
> Has anyone considered creating a (web?) list of persons and organizations
> who have committed to this strike? People are more likely to participate
> when they know they are no alone...
> 
> Yours,
> J.A. Terranson
> sysadmin@mfn.org
> 
> --
> If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they
> should give serious consideration towards setting a better example:
> Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of
> unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in
> the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and
> elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire
> populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate...
> This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States
> as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.
> 
> The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers,
> associates, or others.  Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of
> those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the
> first place...
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> On Thu, 10 Dec 1998, Ken Williams wrote:
> 
> :Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 09:05:58 -0500 (EST)
> :From: Ken Williams 
> :To: cypherpunks@toad.com
> :Subject: Global Strike to protest Wassenaar
> :
> :-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> :
> :
> :Hi,
> :
> :"Strike to protest Wassenaar!"
> :
> :URL:  http://www.zanshin.com/~bobg/
> :
> :"This is a global call for computer professionals to strike on
> :Monday, 14 December, 1998 to protest the signing of the Wassenaar
> :Arrangement, an international treaty that imposes new restrictions
> :on cryptographic software technology. The strike is meant to raise
> :awareness about the importance of cryptography, about the U.S.
> :government's wrongheaded attempts to curtail its use, and about the
> :strong-arm tactics used by the United States to pressure other
> :countries into limiting their citizens' rights the way it has
> :limited its own."
> :
> :
> :Regards,
> :
> :Ken Williams
> :
> :Packet Storm Security        http://www.Genocide2600.com/~tattooman/
> :E.H.A.P. Head of Operations  http://www.ehap.org/   ehap@ehap.org
> :NC State CS Dept  http://www.csc.ncsu.edu/   jkwilli2@unity.ncsu.edu
> :PGP DSS/DH/RSA Keys          http://www4.ncsu.edu/~jkwilli2/pgpkey/
> :
> :___________________________________________________________________
> :Get Your Email Sniffed and Decrypted for Free at http://www.nsa.gov
> :
> :-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> :Version: PGPfreeware 5.0i for non-commercial use
> :Charset: noconv
> :
> :iQEVAwUBNm/VQJDw1ZsNz1IXAQGzygf/Zt/sP419T5dA1gY/Rru7ACtv6xWXWMUA
> :HDBQPFbGV8yviOIU7N2bHndWGtr+hjPcdoudoXlOwYF73/TybNSzs6J/iAF9yhSR
> :UmRKM+suH8FwJ90F+i36W8hCQrkhPYXEwXW4AWDEeGNKjZdRLApS/POMcnTWoTSK
> :iHwDsdE+AevhlcWuC1nk80AlSEVNE/B2zmbWGax12tciM2NxTc4AqtqI3BwXebVq
> :f/04ZC9515dR/XHGhtbmQ08sTNS9eQUG8H626XE58XtE+MOsVEJYjUQFDd9L13T2
> :dlun/4+U1J9xMmN8uYlUySxKr9XmharSXLJCmpmIaE0bwDwTx7Pkpw==
> :=DaVN
> :-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> :
> :




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Missouri FreeNet Administration 
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 19:18:34 -0800 (PST)
To: Steve Orrin 
Subject: Re: Global Strike to protest Wassenaar
In-Reply-To: <367062FA.AA2ADF58@ix.netcom.com>
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 6077
Lines: 146


I agree that the primary damage, and resultant attention, is [necessarily]
focused upon those whom [indirectly] had the least to do with "inflicting"
this upon us (very accurately put), however, it is also the way most
likely to generate the necessary awareness of the issues.  Our biggest
problem isn't that Wassenaar is forced upon us by bureaucrats: our problem
is that hundreds of these types of things are forced upon us every year,
and *nobody cares*.  Our people have become so totally numbed and
apathetic, that if they are not "bitten" directly, they could care less.

I submit that this strike allows them to be bitten, albeit mildly, and
that this *may* (and may very well *not*) raise their attention level a
notch or two...

Yours, 
J.A. Terranson
sysadmin@mfn.org

--
If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they
should give serious consideration towards setting a better example:
Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of
unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in
the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and 
elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire
populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate...
This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States
as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers,
associates, or others.  Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of
those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the
first place...
--------------------------------------------------------------------


On Thu, 10 Dec 1998, Steve Orrin wrote:

:Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 19:10:34 -0500
:From: Steve Orrin 
:To: Missouri FreeNet Administration ,
:    Ken Williams 
:Cc: cypherpunks@toad.com, cypherpunks@algebra.com,
:    cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com
:Subject: Re: Global Strike to protest Wassenaar
:
:I believe that a mass strike only hurts our employers, not the gov'ts
:that are afflicting us with crap like Wassenaar. I propose that we
:designate Monday "International Export Crypto Day". We should pick a
:gov't agency or member (in a gov't other than our own) and email crypto 
:to him/her. Mass effort will demonstrate the absolute idiocy of
:regulations like Wassenaar. maybe even a mass chain letter with RSA in 3
:lines of perl emailed all over the world and forward via typical chain
:letter mechanisms. 
:
:so
:privsoft@ix.netcom.com
:
:
:Missouri FreeNet Administration wrote:
:> 
:> This is an excellent idea...  I have just massmailed an announcement
:> to our members: Missouri FreeNet will not be be operating on 14 December.
:> Has anyone considered creating a (web?) list of persons and organizations
:> who have committed to this strike? People are more likely to participate
:> when they know they are no alone...
:> 
:> Yours,
:> J.A. Terranson
:> sysadmin@mfn.org
:> 
:> --
:> If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they
:> should give serious consideration towards setting a better example:
:> Ruling by force, rather than consensus; the unrestrained application of
:> unjust laws (which the victim-populations were never allowed input on in
:> the first place); the State policy of justice only for the rich and
:> elected; the intentional abuse and occassionally destruction of entire
:> populations merely to distract an already apathetic and numb electorate...
:> This type of demogoguery must surely wipe out the fascist United States
:> as surely as it wiped out the fascist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.
:> 
:> The views expressed here are mine, and NOT those of my employers,
:> associates, or others.  Besides, if it *were* the opinion of all of
:> those people, I doubt there would be a problem to bitch about in the
:> first place...
:> --------------------------------------------------------------------
:> 
:> On Thu, 10 Dec 1998, Ken Williams wrote:
:> 
:> :Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 09:05:58 -0500 (EST)
:> :From: Ken Williams 
:> :To: cypherpunks@toad.com
:> :Subject: Global Strike to protest Wassenaar
:> :
:> :-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
:> :
:> :
:> :Hi,
:> :
:> :"Strike to protest Wassenaar!"
:> :
:> :URL:  http://www.zanshin.com/~bobg/
:> :
:> :"This is a global call for computer professionals to strike on
:> :Monday, 14 December, 1998 to protest the signing of the Wassenaar
:> :Arrangement, an international treaty that imposes new restrictions
:> :on cryptographic software technology. The strike is meant to raise
:> :awareness about the importance of cryptography, about the U.S.
:> :government's wrongheaded attempts to curtail its use, and about the
:> :strong-arm tactics used by the United States to pressure other
:> :countries into limiting their citizens' rights the way it has
:> :limited its own."
:> :
:> :
:> :Regards,
:> :
:> :Ken Williams
:> :
:> :Packet Storm Security        http://www.Genocide2600.com/~tattooman/
:> :E.H.A.P. Head of Operations  http://www.ehap.org/   ehap@ehap.org
:> :NC State CS Dept  http://www.csc.ncsu.edu/   jkwilli2@unity.ncsu.edu
:> :PGP DSS/DH/RSA Keys          http://www4.ncsu.edu/~jkwilli2/pgpkey/
:> :
:> :___________________________________________________________________
:> :Get Your Email Sniffed and Decrypted for Free at http://www.nsa.gov
:> :
:> :-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
:> :Version: PGPfreeware 5.0i for non-commercial use
:> :Charset: noconv
:> :
:> :iQEVAwUBNm/VQJDw1ZsNz1IXAQGzygf/Zt/sP419T5dA1gY/Rru7ACtv6xWXWMUA
:> :HDBQPFbGV8yviOIU7N2bHndWGtr+hjPcdoudoXlOwYF73/TybNSzs6J/iAF9yhSR
:> :UmRKM+suH8FwJ90F+i36W8hCQrkhPYXEwXW4AWDEeGNKjZdRLApS/POMcnTWoTSK
:> :iHwDsdE+AevhlcWuC1nk80AlSEVNE/B2zmbWGax12tciM2NxTc4AqtqI3BwXebVq
:> :f/04ZC9515dR/XHGhtbmQ08sTNS9eQUG8H626XE58XtE+MOsVEJYjUQFDd9L13T2
:> :dlun/4+U1J9xMmN8uYlUySxKr9XmharSXLJCmpmIaE0bwDwTx7Pkpw==
:> :=DaVN
:> :-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
:> :
:> :
:





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "William H. Geiger III" 
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 21:11:46 -0800 (PST)
To: Kevlar 
Subject: Re: Global Strike to protest Wassenaar
In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19981210163644.0088ec30@max-web.com>
Message-ID: <199812110422.XAA003.17@whgiii>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 1062
Lines: 33


In <3.0.6.32.19981210163644.0088ec30@max-web.com>, on 12/10/98 
   at 04:36 PM, Kevlar  said:

>Not only will Maximum Web Design (www.max-web.com) not be operating on
>December 14, I have plenty of bandwith for a page with all the
>participants. Would be happy to maintain it too...

>Please e-mail me. anti-wassenaar@max-web.com

>Only serious requests -=WITH A URL=- will be accepted.
>Will post the address to the list asap.

The domain of openpgp.net will be down in protest on the 14th. Perhaps
someone could design a common webpage that we all could use outlining why
our sites are down.

I also plan on bouncing all mail to the openpgp.net domain on that day. :)

-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
---------------------------------------------------------------






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 15:06:27 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: RE: Wassenaar summary (and a funny new loophole)
Message-ID: <199812102307.AAA08302@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 458
Lines: 12


Are items freely exportable between countrys that are party to this agreement?

>Systems that do not meet those conditions are export-controlled if they
>use symmetric encryption with more than 56 bit keys, algorithms based
>on factorization or on logarithms in finite fields with more than 512
>bit keys (e.g. RSA, DH) or on discrete logarithms in other groups (such
>as elliptic curves) with more than 112 bits. They may be exported for
>personal use.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 15:38:58 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: riots cancelled on account of weather..
Message-ID: <199812102340.AAA11263@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 238
Lines: 26



At 02:45 PM 12/8/98 -0600, Jim Choate wrote:
>Damn, you beat me to it. I was going to post something about a dry run for
>Y2K in San Fran.
>
>Any rioting?
>

Too cold and rainy.  You need a summer outage for true fun.








  








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Brown, R Ken" 
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 04:33:12 -0800 (PST)
To: Richard.Bragg@ssa.co.uk>
Subject: RE: Global Strike to protest Wassenaar
Message-ID: <896C7C3540C3D111AB9F00805FA78CE2013F8618@MSX11002>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 557
Lines: 17


Richard Bragg wrote:

>  Ever played Mornington Crescent?  Try the same thing with
>  e-mail.   The idea is that only those in the game know "the rules".
>  These rules can change at any time in any way and all
>  "real players" can tell about the new "rules" and adjust accordingly.

showing of course that he either doesn't know the *real*  rules of
Mornington Crescent or else (more likely) doesn't want to reveal them!  Oh,
and this posting quite clearly wins this round - even with the new DLR
extensions and the Elverson Road footbridge:-)  

Ken




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Richard.Bragg@ssa.co.uk
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 02:00:02 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Global Strike to protest Wassenaar
Message-ID: <802566D7.00361B16.00@seunt002e.ssa.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 587
Lines: 18


Ever played Mornington Crescent?  Try the same thing with e-mail.  The idea
is that only those in the game know "the rules".  These rules can change at
any time in any way and all "real players" can tell about the new "rules"
and adjust accordingly.

The idea would be to exchange nothing while make it appear to be exchanging
information of real importance.  OK so this will be just like any managment
memo but you must get my drift.

Hack together a proggy to "encrypt" a message but really just generates
garbage, just like politicians.  Leave patterns in it so it looks real.







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Marita Näsman-Repo 
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 01:24:43 -0800 (PST)
To: press-english-technical@lists.datafellows.com
Subject: MEDIA RELEASE: Data Fellows' F-Secure VPN+ demo; An easy way to test strong Internet encryption
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19981211112352.00937240@smtp.datafellows.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 5309
Lines: 124


  
Press Release				For immediate release 

Data Fellows' F-Secure VPN+ demo 
An easy way to test strong Internet encryption

Espoo, Finland, December 11, 1998. - Data Fellows, one of the world's
leading developers of anti-virus and encryption software, has set up a demo
of the commercial version of F-Secure VPN+, whereby companies can test an
encrypted IPSec connection between their own machine and a VPN+ Server at
the Data Fellows site. The supported platform is Windows NT 4.0 (Intel)
with an Ethernet network adapter. The release works on both single and
multi-processor machines.

An encrypted IPSec connection can be set up by downloading and installing
the F-Secure VPN+ Demo Client, available at the Data Fellows web site
(http://www.DataFellows.com/f-secure/vpn-plus/demo/), and connecting
through it to the F-Secure VPN+ server. This set-up in no way affects a
company's other network traffic; all other hosts and network services may
be accessed as usual. Unlike the commercial version of VPN+, it is not
possible to create encrypted connections to hosts other than
VPNPlus.DataFellows.com. This server cannot be contacted without the VPN+
demo client.

The demo client has been configured to establish an IPSec encrypted (3des)
connection to VPNPlus.DataFellows.com (IP:194.252.6.42). A random session
key will be negotiated for each connection. Host authentication is
performed using a shared secret 0x462D534543555245 (i.e. "F-SECURE" in
hex). Access to all other networks (local/Internet) is provided without
additional IPSec security. 

In the commercial version of F-Secure VPN+, the network administrator
determines which connections are permitted and which connections need to be
encrypted. The commercial version of the product features F-Secure
Administrator for central management, network wide security policy
distribution and F-Secure VPN+ Certificate Wizard for a complete VPN
Certificate Authority service. 

In addition to F-Secure VPN+ Demo Client, a Lotus ScreenCam presentation of
F-Secure Administrator can be downloaded, as well as the user's manual of
the commercial version. The presentation shows how easily the network
administrator can create and maintain a security policy for the whole
Virtual Private Network.

End-user installation of the commercial version can be done using AUTOINST
network-wide deployment tools and it provides a fully transparent network
security solution to the user. No user-interfaces are left to the user to
stumble with.

About Data Fellows

Data Fellows is one of the world's leading developers of data security
products. The Company develops, markets and supports anti-virus, data
security and cryptography software products for corporate computer
networks. It has principal offices in San Jose, California, and Espoo,
Finland, with regional offices and corporate partners, VARs and other
distributors in over 80 countries around the world. 

Data Fellows has customers in more than 100 countries, including many of
the world's largest industrial corporations and best-known
telecommunications companies, major international airlines, European
governments, post offices and defense forces, and several of the world's
largest banks. 

The Company was named one of the Top 100 Technology companies in the world
by Red Herring magazine in its September 1998 issue. Other commendations
include Hot Product of the Year 1997 (Data Communications Magazine); Best
Anti-Virus product (SVM Magazine, May 1997); Editor's Choice (SECURE
Computing Magazine); and the 1996 European Information Technology Prize.

About F-Secure products

All F-Secure products are integrated into the F-Secure Framework management
architecture, which provides a three-tier, scaleable, policy-based
management infrastructure to minimize the costs of security management. 

F-Secure Workstation Suite consists of malicious code detection and removal
as well as unobtrusive file and network encryption, all integrated into a
policy-based management architecture.

F-Secure Anti-Virus, with multiple scanning engines (including F-PROT and
AVP), is the most comprehensive, real-time virus scanning and protection
system for all Windows platforms. 

F-Secure VPN+ provides a software-based, IPSec-compliant Virtual Private
Network solution for large corporate networks as well as remote and small
office networks. 

F-Secure FileCrypto is the first and only product to integrate strong
real-time encryption directly into the Windows file system. 

F-Secure SSH provides secure remote login, terminal, and other connections
over unsecured networks. It is the most widely used secure remote
administration tool.

F-Secure NameSurfer is the solution for remote Internet and Intranet DNS
administration. Its easy-to-use WWW user interface automates and simplifies
DNS administration.
For more information, please contact:

USA:
Data Fellows Inc. 
Mr. Pirkka Palomäki, Product Manager 
Tel. +1 408 938 6700, fax +1 408 938 6701
E-mail: Pirkka.Palomäki@DataFellows.com

Europe:
Data Fellows Oy
Mr. Topi Hautanen, Product Manager
PL 24  
FIN-02231 ESPOO				
Tel. +358 9 859 900, fax. +358 9 8599 0599
E-mail: Topi.Hautanen@DataFellows.com
or visit our web site at http://www.DataFellows.com


--
Marita.Nasman-Repo@DataFellows.com, 
World-Wide Web http://www.DataFellows.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Jean-Francois Avon" 
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 16:50:32 -0800 (PST)
To: "e$@vmeng.com" , "Cypherpunks" 
Subject: 'Martial law' rushed for Y2K chaos
Message-ID: <199812130055.TAA09162@cti06.citenet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 8136
Lines: 120


LOCAL 
 Saturday 12 December 1998 

'Martial law' rushed for Y2K chaos Report warns government to be ready to 
invoke federal Emergencies Act

 By David Pugliese           The Ottawa Citizen

  The federal government should consider invoking the Emergencies Act, the 
successor to the War Measures Act, if the millennium bug causes widespread 
chaos, according to newly obtained government documents.  The report, by the 
Year 2000 contingency planning group of Emergency Preparedness Canada, calls 
for orders and regulations for the Emergencies Act to be ready by the end of 
March.  "In the worst case, we should consider the Emergencies Act a potential 
source of special powers," urge documents prepared by government in July and 
August and obtained by the Citizen under the Access to Information Act.  
"Among the activities that must be done to meet the problems resulting from 
Y2000 failures is development of relevant emergency orders and regulations 
required for the invocation of emergency provisions under the Emergencies 
Act."  Federal departments are to identify what emergency orders would be 
needed in their areas of responsibility to deal with a countrywide disaster 
caused by the millennium bug. Those orders and regulations should have been in 
place in 1988 -- when the Emergencies Act was brought in to replace the War 
Measures Act -- but federal departments failed to develop them. While the lack 
of emergency orders and regulations among federal departments would not have 
prevented the Emergencies Act from being invoked, it would have meant that any 
federal response to a large-scale crisis would not have run smoothly.  Defence 
Minister Art Eggleton, who is in charge of Emergency Preparedness Canada, will 
also be issued with a step-by-step guidebook on actions to be taken in a 
"major or catastrophic emergency" caused by the millennium bug, according to 
the report.  That book will include all the documents needed and the names of 
provincial officials who should be consulted before the federal government 
invokes the Emergencies Act.  The War Measures Act was last invoked by Prime 
Minister Pierre Trudeau on Oct. 16, 1970, to deal with the FLQ terrorist 
threat -- the first and only peacetime implementation of such sweeping powers.  
The Front de Liberation du Quebec had kidnapped British diplomat James Cross, 
who was later released, and Liberal cabinet minister Pierre Laporte, who was 
slain. During the crisis, Canadian troops were ordered to protect public 
figures, and 497 possible suspects were arbitrarily rounded up and arrested in 
an attempt to break the FLQ cell structure.  Defence spokesman Maj. John 
Blakeley said the process now being put in place is simply part of prudent 
planning to deal with the millennium bug and does not automatically mean the 
Emergencies Act will be enacted.  "The question of whether it will be required 
or not is one that will have to be determined at the time," Maj. Blakeley 
said. "Basically, this is saying, 'If it gets to that stage, is everything 
ready?' "  Maj. Blakeley said all scenarios have to be considered, including 
the most unlikely one: widespread major problems caused by the millennium bug. 
He added that the Defence department is confident it will be ready to handle 
any emergencies associated with the computer glitch.  But the Auditor General 
has continually warned that the federal government is lacking in its emergency 
response capabilities. Among the criticisms over the years:  - In 1997, the 
Auditor General voiced concern that not enough was being done to deal with an 
emergency caused by a major oil or chemical spill;  - In 1992, the Auditor 
General repeated warnings that the government had still not created an 
emergency program to deal with an earthquake. The Auditor General's office 
says those plans are still undeveloped.  - In 1989, the Auditor General 
pointed out that the emergency orders and measures needed by federal 
departments for the Emergencies Act had not been mapped out. Nine years later, 
that remains the case.  Jim Hanson, a defence analyst and retired Canadian 
Army brigadier general, said the Emergencies Act contains the same sweeping 
powers to deal with unrest and civil emergencies. But he said it is likely 
such measures are intended more to give powers to civilian agencies, such as 
police forces, in case there are problems from the millennium bug.  "It 
wouldn't take much under the existing National Defence Act or the 'aid to 
civil powers' provisions to put military personnel on the streets."  Some 
computer analysts believe the millennium bug, also known as the Year 2000 or 
Y2K problem, will cause only minor disruptions. But others predict it will 
trigger widespread disruptions in computers that control everything from hydro 
and financial systems to air-traffic control.  The problem centres on the fact 
that the internal counters of computers will read the year 2000 simply as 00. 
That could cause them to crash as they misread the 00 for the year 1900.  
Several months ago the Canadian Forces were told to prepare for the biggest 
peacetime deployment of troops ever in case computer failures caused by the 
Year 2000 problem disrupted key services. The plan, dubbed Operation Abacus, 
also involves the development of rules governing the use of force by soldiers 
in case they are called upon to assist police in dealing with emergency 
incidents.  The reports obtained by the Citizen predict the first wave of 
computer failures could hit Canada on Sept. 9, 1999, because systems might 
have problems handling that date sequence, which is 9-9-99. The Defence 
department will activate a national co-ordination centre to handle emergency 
response to the millennium bug the day before that date, according to the 
documents.  As part of its preparations, the national co-ordination centre 
will also run several exercises to test military readiness. In April, federal 
and provincial agencies in Quebec and Ontario will conduct a three-day 
training scenario involving a nuclear emergency -- a major test and evaluation 
of how the federal government and provinces can respond to a large-scale 
emergency that might result from the millennium bug, according to the Access 
documents.  In the reports, military officials also raise concern that their 
ability to help out if the millennium bug causes widespread problems relies 
heavily on Canada's electrical, transportation, food and water and sewage 
systems having their own Year 2000 problems under control: "The ability of the 
(Canadian Forces) to provide civil assistance is highly dependent on the state 
of preparedness of these infrastructure items since the CF, like everyone 
else, is highly dependent on smooth delivery of these supplies and services," 
the documents state. "Without aggressive action in these industrial and 
service sectors, the (Canadian Forces) may not be able to make a significant 
impact across the nation as a force of last resort."  Military officials point 
out that more than 16,000 troops were needed to deal with the effects of the 
ice storm that hit Ontario and Quebec this year. But the millennium bug, the 
report states, "has the potential of creating a demand orders of magnitude 
greater than this, which are well beyond the CF's capability to respond."  
Defence officials called for "aggressive and preventive actions" now to reduce 
the Year 2000 risk to a more manageable level.  The military will have about 
32,000 of its personnel dedicated to Operation Abacus, with thousands more 
available if needed.  In November, the Commons Public Accounts committee 
questioned whether the Canadian Forces would be able to deal with countrywide 
problems that might be caused by the millennium bug.  But several weeks later, 
a report by Auditor General Denis Desautels found that the critical systems 
the Defence department needs should computer foul-ups create civil chaos are 
largely ready. These included systems that support the movement of troops and 
supplies and handling of communications.
 
Copyright 1998 Ottawa Citizen 







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: GregShow2@aol.com
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 20:15:27 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Question About "C" programming
Message-ID: <9783faa1.36733e96@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 64
Lines: 5


Could you please send me more information on this language.




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 10:21:24 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Mathematician-to-silicon compilers and the Law
Message-ID: <199812131822.TAA01749@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 2113
Lines: 80


>> >publishing a paper on the algorithm also transmits that knowledge making

1. In the *best-case*, the published paper transmits some knowledge to the
reader :-)

2. In ECAD, tools try to go from that published Paper to circuits.  
In SoftE, tools try to go from english specs to runnable prototypes. 

Meanwhile, the humans who do various steps of this translation
get paid reasonably well.

2. But eventually normal english prose will be *mechanically translatable*
to a machine-ready format.  Which means that free speech law starts 
mixing with machine law (patents, export restrictions, posession
restrictions).

Because the Instructions become the Thing.

You can sell instructions on converting your rifle to full auto, or
stealing cable TV.  They're protected speech.   But suppose you could feed
a properly formatted blueprint into a universal fabricator and get a full
auto rifle out?

Crypto source code fed to a universal computer gives you a regulated item;
what  happens to the law when regular english is just a few clicks away
from being an executable?  A chip?

There is a fundamental issue that the law doesn't handle at all consistently,
because it previously didn't matter much, but which every CS Ugrad knows: 

There is no difference between software, and hardware. Only such annoyances
as cost, development time, throughput, flexibility, etc. 

(Not everyone can see machines as instantiations of ideas.  Politicians
have particular problems linking abstractions to atoms.  Fortunately, those
that
can see machines as ideas can turn their ideas into machines.)

I see two extrapolated futures.  In one, the end result is restrictions on
free speech in certain areas (e.g., crypto), for the benefit of national
insecurity and the Children.  In the other, the Law will have to allow you
whatever posessions you like, and only punish *actions* after the fact.
Given recent historical trends...


-----------

Imagine biologists couldn't publish new enkephalin sequences because
someone might put them into a programmable yeast and make unlicensed
medicines..





















  








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Anonymous 
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 13:06:03 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: steganography detection hazard?
Message-ID: <199812132107.WAA14717@replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 473
Lines: 35


Suppose you take your plaintext, encrypt it,
then spread the bits across an image as the LSBs.

The LSBs will, if you've used a decent cipher, 
have perfectly uniform distribution.

The 'noise' LSBs in a chunk of *digitized* bits will show
a *uniform* distribution.  (As indeed will the cipher's blocks,
or any bitchunk larger or smaller.)

Therefore an entropy test (see Maurer) will discriminate
between the two.

Please prove me wrong.

--Stegosaur










  








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Alexander Kjeldaas 
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 14:44:11 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: passwords and hashes
Message-ID: <19981213234401.A25332@lucifer.guardian.no>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 1215
Lines: 32


I'm looking into how passwords should be transferred into keys for the
loopback filesystem in Linux.  Currently, what happens is that you
take the SHA or RIPEMD-160 hash of the password string and use that as
a key.  If the cipher only uses a 128-bit key, the last 32 bits of the
hash is unused.  I have some questions about this scheme:

o In the case of a 128-bit cipher, do I lose any information by not
  using the last 32 bits of information?  Should the last 32 bits be
  xored with the first 128 in order to not lose any info?

o Is there any advantage to _not_ using a 256-bit hash function? (i.e
  - use a 128-bit hash for 128-bit ciphers).  Currently there are lots
  of AES ciphers that don't get fed a 256-bit key because we only have
  a 160-bit hash.

o Is there a good 256-bit hash function?  I don't know of any other
  than snefru.  In this application, speed doesn't matter much.
  Should I use a 256-bit cipher instead maybe?

o Is it safe to always take the hash of the password, or is it better to
  use the password directly as the key if it is less than 16
  characters for 128-bit cipher?

astor

-- 
 Alexander Kjeldaas, Guardian Networks AS, Trondheim, Norway
 http://www.guardian.no/




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Zebra911@usa.net
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 02:29:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Legally Pay No Federal Income Tax !
Message-ID: <199812141028.CAA29112@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 7120
Lines: 161


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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Alexander Kjeldaas 
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 15:12:18 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: cfs' ecb+ofb mode vs. interleaved cbc mode
Message-ID: <19981214001208.B25332@lucifer.guardian.no>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 2761
Lines: 57


For fast file-system crypto, you really want to implement the ciphers
so that you encrypt several blocks at a time.  CFS does this by using
a special mode (described as ecb+ofb by schneier).  The CFS
documentation explains:


"At attach time, CFS derives from the passphrase into two DES keys, K1
and K2.  K1 is used to create two (or three) DES pseudorandom stream
ciphers, each 128KB long, S1 and S2.  To encrypt a file block, it is
first XORd against a unique bitstream derived from the inode number of
the file.  The result is then XORd against S1 based on its offset in
the file.  This is then DES ECB encrypted with K2, and the result of
that is XORd against the appropriate position in S2.  The resulting
ciphertext is what is stored.  The cipher is reversed in the obvious
manner.  Filenames are similarly encrypted.

There does not appear to be a feasible attack that allows an
independent search for the two subkeys K1 and K2; in a brute-force
known-plaintext attack, an attacker would have to try all 2**112 key
combinations.  Note that in the single DES mode, the two keys may be
vulnerable to independent exhaustive search under a so-called "linear"
attack, but this attack appears to require a large number of chosen
plaintexts encrypted under the same inode number.  Under most
conditions where the attacker cannot introduce large numbers of chosen
plaintexts, I believe even the single-DES CFS encryption to be very
strong in practice.  Note that this is not the same as a "proof".  In
any event, CFS is always at least as secure as DES or triple DES (as
selected when the directory is created).  If want high security,
select triple DES (now the default); for better performance, use the
hybrid single-DES option."


I'd like to know how this method compares to using an interleaved cbc
mode - for example 8-way interleaved cbc.  The n-way interlaved
cbc-mode works by chaining each n'th block together instead of each
block.  This means you get n more messages.  For a 512-byte block and
a 128-bit block length, this means that each message will be
512/(8*16) = 4 blocks long.  For a 4k block you get messages that are
32 blocks long.  This might or might not be a problem.

With CFS you need 2x the key material - something that is really hard
to get by when you're using 256-bit keys.  It seems to me you'll have
to type in an extremely long password or each of the keys will in
practice be weaker than what the theory tells you.  Another point is
that CFS requires a lot more nonswappable memory than interleaved cbc
mode. This means that interleaved cbc mode initially seems more
attractive for file-system use.  Am I missing something?

astor

-- 
 Alexander Kjeldaas, Guardian Networks AS, Trondheim, Norway
 http://www.guardian.no/




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: tre64t3@rubicon.bf.rmit.oz.au
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 02:27:28 -0800 (PST)
To: bo46dy@seanet.com
Subject: req!
Message-ID: <199812141027.CAA29086@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 467
Lines: 24



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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: theball@matzah.cc
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 00:11:49 -0800 (PST)
To: jewishprof@yahoo.com
Subject: Nation's Biggest Jewish Singles Event:  Dec. 24 @ Webster Hall
Message-ID: <36143.124674421299200.166288@localhost>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 4461
Lines: 112


*******************************************************************
      If you would like to continue to receive e-mail notifications 
regarding UTOPIA's events for Jewish Singles, please let us know by 
sending us an e-mail at theball@matzah.cc.  Please note that this is 
a one-time mailing only.  if we do not hear from you, we will never 
e-mail you again and we thank you for your time.
********************************************************************

"A high-end event," "awash in cocktail dresses," 
"attended by Cosmopolitan's Bachelor of the Month" and  
"3,000 guests who schmoozed their way over three vast floors." 
					-- New York Magazine

"Not a creature stirs on Christmas Eve . . . but that's not at 
this annual party for the city's young and Jewish where some 
3,000 people turned out to dance, romance and kick back last year."   
					-- New York Daily News

"By midnight the nightclub was alive" with 
"4,000 partygoers" at this "holiday alternative for 
Jewish urbanites on their single most silent night of the year."
					-- The New York Times
********************************************************************


The Nation's BIGGEST Event for Jewish Singles
Each Year Since 1995!

Thursday, December 24, 8 p.m.- 4 a.m.
THE BALL '98 at 
WEBSTER HALL
(125 E. 11th St., between 3rd and 4th Aves, NYC)
************************************************
4 FLOORS, 4 DJs, 7 UNIQUE ROOMS, 3000+ EXPECTED
Grand Ballroom, Live Trapeze, Martini Bar, Jazz Club, Cigar 
Lounge, Coffee Bar, Flashback Disco, Sports Bar, BlackHole 
Lounge, more!  
Please dress with style
************************************************************

      Hi, we have sent you this e-mail because we thought you might 
have interest in "The Ball '98"  -- the Nation's Largest Party for 
Jewish Singles in their 20's and 30's.   "The Ball '98" is sponsored 
by UTOPIA Events.  UTOPIA also sponsors the annual "Turkey Ball" on 
Thanksgiving Eve and other events for Jewish Singles.

      If you would like to continue to receive e-mail notifications 
regarding UTOPIA's events for Jewish Singles, please let us know by 
sending us an e-mail to theball@matzah.cc.  Please note that this is 
a one-time mailing only.  if we do not hear from you, we will never 
e-mail you again and we thank you for your time.

THE BALL '98
THE NATION'S BIGGEST EVENT FOR JEWISH SINGLES!

       Our annual Ball is the nation's biggest event for Jewish Singles 
in their 20's and 30's.  In 1995, over 3000 young Jewish singles
attended the Ball when we held it at the Palladium.  In 1996, over 
3,500 attended at Webster Hall.  Last year, over 4000 people attended 
this event when we held it at The Tunnel and the party was covered by 
The New York Post, The Daily News, The New York Times, and more.  

      
THE BALL '98
4 FLOORS 4 DJs, 7 UNIQUE ROOMS

The Ball '98 offers something for everyone: 

	GRAND BALLROOM:  For the Ball '98, Webster Hall's Grand 
Ballroom will be the site of the Main Party -- the place to meet 
and mingle with thousands of young Jewish singles, featuring 
dance music from a legendary DJ.  We will work to ensure that 
the atmosphere in the Grand Ballroom (and The Ball '98 generally)
is conducive to meeting and mingling.

	THE MARTINI BAR & JAZZ CLUB:  Make this your place for 
intimate conversation.  

	TTHE TRAPEZE SHOW:  At 11:45 p.m., a trapeze artist defies 
death and gravity high above the Grand Ballroom -- without a net!  
Not for the faint-hearted.

	AND THERE'S SO MUCH MORE TO EXPLORE:  The Coffee Bar, The 
Sports Bar, the Cigar Lounge, The Flashback Disco featuring music 
from the 70's and 80's, the Black Hole Lounge, and more!

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enter and enjoy the Nation's Largest Jewish Singles Event, we have 
made arrangements to use four entrances to Webster Hall and to 
expand Webster Hall's already large coat check.

ADMISSION

         Admission to The Ball '98 is $20 in advance and $25 at the 
door (we have added more cashiers this year to make entry easy).  For 
information on purchasing tickets in advance, please call Utopia at 
212.459.4321 or e-mail us at theball@matzah.cc.

QUESTIONS?

       If you have any questions about The Ball '98 or any other 
matter, please feel free to e-mail us (theball@matzah.cc) or call 
Utopia directly at 212.459.4321

         Thanks and we look forward to seeing you on December 24 
at Webster Hall for The Ball '98. 






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mok-Kong Shen 
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 23:47:40 -0800 (PST)
To: Alexander Kjeldaas 
Subject: Re: German government press release on Wassenaar
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3674C269.BBE545D5@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 1762
Lines: 53


Alexander Kjeldaas wrote:
> 
> On Wed, Dec 09, 1998 at 08:04:00PM +0100, Ulf Möller wrote:
> >
> > 2.) The government has acknowledged that public domain software
> > remains unrestricted. This also applies to copyrighted software such
> > as PGP which "has been made available without restrictions upon its
> > further dissemination".
> 
> I applied for an examination of the Open Source definition to the
> department for foreign affairs in Norway.  The response (no surprise)
> was that Open Source is compliant with what the Wassenaar-agreement
> calls "public domain" software.

I posed a question in this direction in sci.crypt in the thread
'(fwd) Strike to protest Wassenaar!' to which Doug Stell gave a
follow-up on 11 Dec 14:19:24 which is attached below.

M. K. Shen

____________________________________________________


On Fri, 11 Dec 1998 11:50:12 +0100, Mok-Kong Shen
 wrote:

>>    2. "In the public domain".
>
>This is indeed very interesting. If someone implements a strong 
>crypto algorithm with 128 key bits and places it on an ftp-server 
>for free download, then that is by definition in the 'public domain' 
>and hence according to the above not subject to export regulations. 
>Could someone explain this paradox?

a. "Public domain" is defined in the document you refer to, by the
indentations under Item 1.

b1. 128-bit software is never exempt.

b2.  64-bit software is exempt if you meet ALL of the other criteria.

b3. The limit of exemption is 56 bits, if you do not meet all of the
other criteria.

See my other response where this is explained from Catgory 5 - Part 2.
Unfortunately, one key statement is missing from the General Software
Note and it contains the magic word "ALL."

doug




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Wilson, Jamie (J.R.)" 
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 05:52:04 -0800 (PST)
To: "'cypherpunks@toad.com>
Subject: RE: Postcard Debates
Message-ID: <199812141352.IAA01172@mailfw2.ford.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 3248
Lines: 97


The problem with the USPS is that it is government run -- like anything
government run, it doesn't work right.  It's too expensive, too slow, and
too unreliable.  Email, on the other hand, is largely handled by the private
sector.  Hence, it works better.  

What I find interesting (in response to your note that the USPS would
charge), is that the U.S. government had to actually pass a law to make sure
the U.S. government doesn't start taxing the Internet.  

____________________________________________________
Jamie R. Wilson                     


-----Original Message-----
From: Reeza! [mailto:howree@cable.navy.mil]
Sent: Friday, 11 December, 1998 20:51
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: RE: Postcard Debates


This would open the door for the USPS to charge for each email sent. 
The same rules? No. Based on those rules, but not the same rules.
The same rules would slow email down considerably also, wouldn't they???

Reeza!



At 08:41 AM 12/11/98 -0500, Wilson, Jamie (J.R.) wrote:
>If everyone just encrypted their messages then no suspicions would be
raised
>regarding the use of encryption.  Most people use envelopes, plain and
>simple -- and as a result no one questions what they are hiding.  It's
>understood that mail is private and therefore people have a right to seal
it
>in an envelope and not worry about people tampering with it.  On the same
>note, there are federal regulations and penalties (in the U.S. anyway) for
>tampering with mail and interrupting the delivery of it.  The same laws
>should apply to email.
>
>____________________________________________________
>Jamie R. Wilson                     
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Robert Wenzler [mailto:rwenzler@usachoice.com]
>Sent: Thursday, 10 December, 1998 13:56
>To: Mbishop645@aol.com
>Cc: maven@weirdness.com; hab@gamegirlz.com; Cypherpunks@toad.com
>Subject: Re: 
>
>
>
>
>Mbishop645@aol.com wrote:
>> 
>> >HaB wrote:
>> >
>> >>     That's a good place to begin, though.  "Would you send a letter to
>> >> someone without an envelope?"  "Then why not put your email in the
>> >> electronic equivalent of one?"
>> >>
>> >> balance.
>> >
>> >Would I send a letter to someone without an envelope?
>> >One word: postcard.
>> 
>> Ahh, but would you tape a check for your phone bill to a postcard? Other
>> than writing a greeting to someone what else do you use a postcard for?
>
>No, I would not tape a phone bill check to a postcard. There is the 
>chance for it to fall off.
>
>There is different methods of sending mail for different levels of
>security and functionality. Some people make it obvious what is inside
>an envelope. (who would not recognize a Christmas card from the
>envelope?) Others make it as bland and normal as possible to
>have it go by without much notice.
>
>It all depends on how secure you want it. Some things you can do
>with what amounts to postcard security.
>
>What amount of security do you want for your email? Would you be
>willing to do something extra for that security?
>
>This type of question is up to each person. How much risk is the
>person willing to take. Each person has the responsibility to
>understand what the risks are and to decide what risks they are
>willing to take.
>
>
>




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Alexander Kjeldaas 
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 02:06:22 -0800 (PST)
To: Mok-Kong Shen 
Subject: Re: German government press release on Wassenaar
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <19981214110616.B20823@lucifer.guardian.no>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 892
Lines: 31


On Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 08:46:49AM +0100, Mok-Kong Shen wrote:
> 
> a. "Public domain" is defined in the document you refer to, by the
> indentations under Item 1.
> 
> b1. 128-bit software is never exempt.
> 
> b2.  64-bit software is exempt if you meet ALL of the other criteria.
> 
> b3. The limit of exemption is 56 bits, if you do not meet all of the
> other criteria.
> 
> See my other response where this is explained from Catgory 5 - Part 2.
> Unfortunately, one key statement is missing from the General Software
> Note and it contains the magic word "ALL."
> 

I haven't heard anything about there not being any exemption on
128-bit crypto.  To my knowledge there is a general exemption on all
Open Source software, regardless of the key length.  However, I will
check into this.

astor

-- 
 Alexander Kjeldaas, Guardian Networks AS, Trondheim, Norway
 http://www.guardian.no/




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Mok-Kong Shen 
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 03:07:41 -0800 (PST)
To: Alexander Kjeldaas 
Subject: Re: German government press release on Wassenaar
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <3674F0E6.3BC542D5@stud.uni-muenchen.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 1514
Lines: 42


Alexander Kjeldaas wrote:
> 
> On Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 08:46:49AM +0100, Mok-Kong Shen wrote:
> >
> > a. "Public domain" is defined in the document you refer to, by the
> > indentations under Item 1.
> >
> > b1. 128-bit software is never exempt.
> >
> > b2.  64-bit software is exempt if you meet ALL of the other criteria.
> >
> > b3. The limit of exemption is 56 bits, if you do not meet all of the
> > other criteria.
> >
> > See my other response where this is explained from Catgory 5 - Part 2.
> > Unfortunately, one key statement is missing from the General Software
> > Note and it contains the magic word "ALL."
> >
> 
> I haven't heard anything about there not being any exemption on
> 128-bit crypto.  To my knowledge there is a general exemption on all
> Open Source software, regardless of the key length.  However, I will
> check into this.

I think that without looking at any official texts this is very clear 
from the motivation of the Wassenaar effort: They don't want strong 
crypto ever to be used by common people. So they can't allow
128-bit crypto for free export in any case. Quite misleading, at
least in my opinion, is their use of the word 'public domain' 
software, which most people understand to be software which anyone 
can download free of charge.

BTW, does anyone have an idea of how long would it take before
the clauses of Wassenaar become effective in the countries concerned?
It can't be intstantly effective, can it? (Laws have to be officially
published.)

M. K. Shen




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Alexander Kjeldaas 
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 03:12:31 -0800 (PST)
To: Mok-Kong Shen 
Subject: Re: German government press release on Wassenaar
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: <19981214121225.A31377@lucifer.guardian.no>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 474
Lines: 20


On Mon, Dec 14, 1998 at 12:05:10PM +0100, Mok-Kong Shen wrote:
> 
> BTW, does anyone have an idea of how long would it take before
> the clauses of Wassenaar become effective in the countries concerned?
> It can't be intstantly effective, can it? (Laws have to be officially
> published.)
> 

No laws have to be changed.  This is just a "small" change to an
existing law.

astor

-- 
 Alexander Kjeldaas, Guardian Networks AS, Trondheim, Norway
 http://www.guardian.no/




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ti3882@yahoo.com
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 10:38:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: your web site
Message-ID: <199812181834.KAA09451@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 1800
Lines: 78



            We'll Submit Your Site To 

                    Over 900

     Search Engines, Directories, & Indices

         For A "One Time Cost" Of Only

                    $39.95


     ***  100% Money Back Guarantee  ***

*** Immediately Increase Your Sites Exposure ***

 For Less Than 4 Cents Each We Will Submit Your
 Web Site To Over 900 Of The Net's Hottest Search 
 Engines, Directories & Indices.

 If your site isn't listed in the Search Engines,
 how can people find you to buy your products 
 or services?
 
 For just $39.95 we'll take the work load off your
 back instead of you trying to do it manually which
 can take days to do.

 We're the professionals that are here to help
 you have a shot at having a successful marketing
 experience with the internet.

 You know as well as we that your time is
 best utilized managing your business and not
 sitting at some keyboard hours upon hours
 trying to save less than 4 cents for each  
 submission. See how it's kind of crazy to try
 to tackle this on your own.  It's just not 
 cost effective to try to do this yourself to
 save just $39.95.

 See why thousands and thousands of businesses 
 world wide both large and small have come to 
 us to utilize our services.  Hotels, Motels,
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 Universities, Governments, Fortune 500 companies,
 Movie Studios, Chambers Of Commerce and many,
 many more.  Shouldn't you give us a call now?

 To Learn More, Call Us At The Numbers Below.
 
 Call us toll free at (800) 771-2003 in the USA
 and Canada or outside the USA at (916) 771-4739
 and we'll provide you with all the necessary
 information to get you submitted Right Away.






To be removed from our mailing list, please
respond with the word remove in the subject.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: smo@clinet.fi
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 03:30:54 -0800 (PST)
To: smo@clinet.fi
Subject: JUST RELEASED  VOL. 2
Message-ID: <011718706870122442@mf_willowstike.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 7635
Lines: 192



JUST RELEASED!!!
INTRODUCING...THE CD VOL. 2   

The CD - Vol. 2, is the absolute best product of its' kind anywhere 
in the world today.  There are no other products anywhere that can 
compete with the quality of this product.

We took a total of over 190 million email addresses from many of the
touted CD's that are out there (bought them all - some were $300+)!
We added the millions we had in storage to those.   When we
combined them all, we had in excess of 300+ million addresses
in one huge file.

We  ran a super "sort/de-dupe" program against this huge list. It 
cut the file down to less than 20 million!!! Can you believe that? It 
seems that most people that are selling CD's are duping the public by 
putting numerous files of addresses in the CD over and over. This 
created many duplicate addresses. They also had many program "generated" 
email addresses like CompuServe, MCI, ANON's, etc.  This causes a 
tremendous amount of undeliverables.

After completion of removal of duplicates and initial filtering we were 
left with the base of 10 Million addresses worth fine tuning to finish the 
project.  Remember, we are not here to produce the CD with the gad zillion 
millions that our competitors are so proud to put their names on these days.  
We ARE here to produce the very BEST CD list as far as quality of 
addresses go

We then ran a program that contained 300+ keywords to remove addresses
with vulgarity,  profanity, sex-related names, postmaster, webmaster, flamer, 
abuse, spam, etc., etc.   Also eliminated all .EDU, mil, .org, .GOV, Genie, 
Delphi, GNN, Wow etc.   We also filtered out all addresses found in any of 
our 1300+ domains list.  We also filtered out addresses in excess of 30,000 
which have proven to be affiliated with anyone found to be opposed to our 
using direct bulk email as a advertising medium. We have also purged the 
list to be free of any "web poison" addresses created by those who are opposed 
to us conducting legitimate business on the internet today.  If you do not know 
what web poisoned addresses are, please look it up now.  One list we recently 
purchased had over 90% poisoned addresses.  The "bottom line" here is that 
you can go out on the world market today and purchase every lists for thousands 
of dollars and NOT have anymore worth owning than what we have compiled 
for you here today.

You use these addresses, you will experience increased response, increased 
sales, and a host of other positives that far exceeds any hoped for results when 
using the competitor's inferior products.  Our customers purchase our products 
over and over and over.  Most of the competition ever succeeds is selling a 
second product to anyone after they purchase the first.

  So, you see, our list will save people hundreds of dollars buying all others that are 
out there on  CD and otherwise. Using ours will be like using the 200+ million that 
we started with, but a lot less money and a lot less time!!
 
We have always said, "You can buy from the REST or you can buy from the BEST".   
Your choice.

                     _____________________________

                       What others are saying:

"I received the CD on Friday evening.   Like a kid with a new toy, I
 immediately started bulking out using the new email addresses.  Over
 the course of the weekend, I emailed out over 500,000 emails and I
 received less than TWENTY undeliverables!!  I am totally satisfied
with my purchase!!  Thanks Premier!!"
                              Dave Buckley
                              Houston,  TX
 
 "This list is worth it's weight in gold!!  I sent out 100,000 emails for my
 product and received over 55 orders!
                               Ann Colby
                            New Orleans, LA
 
                ****************************************
 
                                 HERE'S THE BOTTOM LINE
 
The CD is comprised of 7 million PREMIUM & SUPER clean addresses -ready 
for mailing upon receipt of the CD.  Each file contains exactly 100,000 email 
addresses. There are only AOL & Mixed addresses on this CD.  You have 50 files 
of 100,000 each of AOL to equal 5,000,000 addresses.  The AOL addresses are less 
than 6 weeks old and have been collected throughout the production schedule.
 
The remaining files are comprised of General Internet addresses. There are 20 files 
of 100,000 each, totaling 2,000,000 premium addresses.   NO Compuserve!  No Delphi!
No Genie!  No Prodigy!  NO Filler Addresses!  Simply the Best of the Best!!!

 
                           >>> ONLY $200.00!
 
This price is effective for the next seven days, thereafter the price will be
$299.00 so ORDER NOW!  Remember, bottom-line you always get what you pay for!

All lists are completely free of any Duplicates. We also on a continual basis, add 
New Names and Remove Undeliverables and Remove Requests. The result is the 
Cleanest Email Addresses Available Anywhere to use over and over again, for a 
FRACTION of the cost that other companies charge. Typical rates for acquiring 
email lists are from 1cent to as high as 3 cents per email  address - that's  
"INFORMATION HIGHWAY" ROBBERY!.

We continually work on our CD.  Who knows when those other CDs were made. 
We're constantly adding and deleting addresses, removes. Etc.  It all comes back 
to quality.

Don't even hesitate on this one or you will miss out on the most effective way to 
market anywhere...PERIOD!  If you have any further questions or to place an order, 
you can call toll free at:


800-600-0343  Ext. 2693


To order our email package, simply print out the EZ ORDER FORM
below and fax or mail it to our office today.
 
We accept Visa, Mastercard, AMEX, Checks by Fax.
 
 _________________
EZ Order Form
 

 _____Yes! I would like to order MILLIONS Vol. 2  email addresses
for only $200.00.
 
*Please select one of the following for shipping..
 
____I would like to receive my package OVERNIGHT. I'm including
$15 for shipping. (outside US add an additional $25 for shipping)
 
____I would like to receive my package 2 DAY delivery. I'm including
$10 for shipping.  (outside US add an additional $25 for shipping)
 
DATE_____________________________________________________
 
NAME____________________________________________________

COMPANY NAME___________________________________________

ADDRESS_________________________________________________

CITY, STATE, ZIP___________________________________________
 
PHONE NUMBERS__________________________________________
 
FAX NUMBERS_____________________________________________
 
EMAIL ADDRESS___________________________________________
 
TYPE OF CREDIT CARD:
 
______VISA _____MASTERCARD
 
CREDIT CARD# __________________________________________
 
EXPIRATION DATE________________________________________
 
NAME ON CARD___________________________________________
 
AMOUNT $____________________
 
 
(Required) SIGNATURE:x________________________
 
DATE:x__________________
 
You may fax your order to us at:   1-212-504-8192
 

CHECK BY FAX SERVICES!
 
If you would like to fax a check, paste your check below and fax it to
our office along with all forms to: 1-212-504-8192

******************************************************

***24 HOUR FAX SERVICES*** PLEASE PASTE YOUR
 
CHECK HERE AND FAX IT TO US AT 1-212-504-8192
 
*******************************************************
 
If You fax a check, there is no need for you to send the original check.
We will draft up a new check, with the exact information from your
original check. All checks will be held for bank clearance.  (7-10 days)
Make payable to: "GD Publishing"






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: 785
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 22:32:08 -0800 (PST)
To: user@the.internet
Subject: CALL 1-800-HOT-PUSSY....CALL NOW!!
Message-ID: <05130043702493@netcast.ipsoa.it>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 651
Lines: 33


Hi Sexy,

I am lonely waiting for you to call me. Let me be the "Little Secret" in 
your life!

WARNING!!

These lines are extremely xxx-rated. Adults over 18 only!!! Sex starved
girls will give you a hot sexual experience you'll never forget. Not
recommended for people with weak hearts or bad backs!!!


Call 1-800-HOT-PUSSY(468-7877)

$2.99-$4.99 per min.        Billed by Teleworld
Visa/Mastercard/Amex      Must be over 18


Call 1-900-288-LIVE(5483) (US ONLY)

Billed as 1-ON-1 on your phone bill
$25.00 per call    Must be over 18


1-900-451-PUSSY(7877) (Canada)

$2.99-$4.99 per min. (US $)

CALL NOW!!!     CALL NOW!!!       CALL NOW!!!




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: dave@liveauctiononline.com
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 15:09:07 -0800 (PST)
To: dave@liveauctiononline.com
Subject: Free Banner offer from LAO---
Message-ID: <199812152305.PAA16803@liveauctiononline.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 1438
Lines: 30


 
Hi :)
We are looking for a limited number of reputable online companies who are interested in using our online auction to sell their products. We think that we can work together to help each other promote our on-line store-fronts. 

We would like you to become an "Anchor Tenant" at L.A.O.,  here is how it works:

- We will place "Your Banner" in a  category that  matches the type of items that you sell. 
- Bidders access "only your" items by clicking on "Your Banner". 
- You guarantee to keep a minimum of 100 auctions running at L.A.O.
- You provide a reciprocal link from your site to ours.
- NO LISTING FEE, you only pay a small % only on the items that sell.
 
What are the benefits:

Exposure - we place only "Your Banner" in the Your Category.
Exposure - we link "Your Banner" to your web site!!
Exposure - only "your auctions" are featured in your selected Category.


Live Auction Online is currently getting over 1,000,000 hits a month and we have close to 10,000 members. Please let us know as soon as possible, we have a limited number of categories and we will only place 1 Banner in each category!! 

Go to http://www.liveauctiononline.com and click on the "Beanie" category to see how our "Anchor Tenancy" works. Also, click on the link on our front page to get more info on our "Anchor  Tenancy". 

Also, please send your website address and aprox. hits you are recieving if you have advertising on your site.






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Trans World Specials" 
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 12:47:27 -0800 (PST)
To: Trans World Airlines Customers 
Subject: Trans World Specials Fare Sales
Message-ID: <19981215163725.21354.qmail@inet2.twa.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 7253
Lines: 214


Welcome to Trans World Specials for December 15th, 1998.
 
 This week marks the beginning of a great enhancement
 for Trans World Specials.  To make it easier for you,
 telephoning is no longer necessary.  After you read over
 the list of Trans World Specials just point your browser to
 http://www.twa.com/hotdeals
 and book your trip directly on our website. 
 It's easy and only takes a minute. Just point and click. 
 
 All tickets must be purchased between December 15
 and December 18, 1998. All domestic fares allow travel
 to originate in either direction, except New York/Las Vegas,
 which may originate in New York only. Travel to St. Maarten
 may originate in New York City only. 
 
 Did you know TWA has gift certificates available 
 for you to give to your friends and family? Read 
 all about it on our home page at http://www.twa.com
 
 
 On to this week's Trans World Specials.
 
 
 *************INTERNATIONAL************
 
 
 Roundtrip fare from NEW YORK, NY (JFK) to:
 (Depart New York on December 17 or 18 and 
 return December 19-21, 24, 25)
 
 Fare:	City:
 
 $248	St. Maarten, Netherlands Antilles
 
 
 ************DOMESTIC*****************
 
 Roundtrip fare between ST. LOUIS, MO and:
 (Depart Friday 12/18 after 7 p.m. and 
 return Monday or Tuesday 12/21 or 12/22)
 
 Fare:	City:
 
 $129	Atlanta, GA
 $139	Dallas/Ft. Worth, TX
 $139	Pittsburgh, PA
 $89	Wichita, KS
 
 
 Roundtrip fares between ST. LOUIS, MO and:
 (Depart Friday 12/18 after 7 p.m. or all day
 12/19 and return Monday or Tuesday 12/21 or 12/22)
 
 Fare:	City:
 
 $89	Dayton, OH
 $69	Louisville, KY
 $69	Springfield, MO
 
 
 
 
 
 Roundtrip fare From NEW YORK, NY (JFK) to:
 (Depart Friday 12/18 or Saturday 12/19 and 
 return Monday or Tuesday 12/21 or 12/22. Nonstop)
 
 Fare:	City:
 
 $239	Las Vegas, NV
 
 
 **************ALAMO****************
 
 Alamo offers the following low rates valid 
 12/12/98 - 12/14/98.  
 
 $17.49	Las Vegas, NV -	St. Louis, MO
 
 $20.49	Atlanta, GA - Pittsburgh, PA
 
 For reservations call Alamo at 1-800-GO-ALAMO and 
 request rate code RT and ID # 443833. For online 
 reservations visit Alamo at:  http://www.goalamo.com
 
 
 ********HILTON HOTELS/RESORTS****************
 
 
 Hilton Hotels/Resorts offers these low rates valid the
 night of 12/18/98 - 12/21/98.
 
 $59	Hilton Arlington - Arlington, TX
 	(Includes breakfast for two! Visit Six Flags	
 	Over Texas and Hurricane Harbor)
 
 $85	Hilton Atlanta & Towers - Atlanta, GA
 	(Downtown near Peachtree Center, SCITREK
 	museum, and the Underground)
 
 $49	Hilton Atlanta Northwest - Atlanta, GA	
 	(Convenient to Six Flags, Marietta, and 
 	downtown Atlanta)
 
 $79	Hilton Dallas Parkway - Dallas, TX
 	(N. Dallas location, free shuttle to Galleria
 	and Valley View Shopping Malls)
 
 $76	The Seelbach Hilton Louisville - Louisville, KY
 	(Located in downtown Louisville close to 
 	shopping, fine dining and theatres)
 
 $85	Hilton Pittsburgh & Towers - Pittsburgh, PA
 	(Near theatres, museums, and restaurants, 
 	overlooks Pointe State Park)
 
 $89	Hilton St. Louis Frontenac - St. Louis, MO
 	(Free airport shuttle and parking, located 
 	midtown near shopping and entertainment)
 
 For reservations call Hilton at 1-800-774-1500 and ask 
 for Hilton Value Rates. Visit Hilton online at 
 http://www.hilton.com
 
 
 ***************TERMS & CONDITIONS**************
 
 
 Airfare:
 GENERAL : Fares shown are roundtrip, 
 nonrefundable and nonchangeable. Tickets may only be
 purchased via the TWA website. Fares do not include 
 Passenger Facility Charges of up to $12 depending on
 itinerary. Electronic ticketing and credit card form 
 of payment only. Offer is not available in conjunction
 with any other promotion, coupon, or discount. Seats 
 are limited and may not be availabe on all flights or
 dates.  Standby is not allowed. Tickets must be purchased
 at the time of booking. Travel is on TWA only, no other
 air carrier.  Certain domestic airfares of $89 or higher
 may be discounted by redeeming 5000 Aviatior miles. Aviator 
 miles are not earned when redeeming miles for fare discount.
 Aviators earned and purchased upgrades may not be used in 
 conjunction with the 5000 mile redemption.  Once miles are
 redeemed they may not be recredited to the members 
 account and are nonrefundable. 
 
 DOMESTIC: All fares allow travel to originate in either
 direction (except NYC/LAS which may originate in NY only). 
 All fares allow departure Friday 12/18 after
 7 p.m. and certain fares indicated also allow departure 
 all day Saturday 12/19.  All return travel is allowed 
 either Monday or Tuesday 12/21 or 12/22. All travel must
 be completed by 12/22.  Travel between New York and 
 Las Vegas via nonstop flights only. Tickets must be purchased
 by 12/18/98.
 
 INTERNATIONAL: Travel for St. Maarten must originate 
 in New York only and may depart December 17 or 18. 
 Return travel is allowed December 19-21, 24, 25. 
 Fare does not include $47 in APHIS/U.S. Customs/Immigration/
 U.S. Departure/Security Surcharge fees. Aviator 
 upgrades are not permitted. Tickets must be purchased
 by 12/18/98.
 
 Car Rental Conditions: 
 Taxes (including in California, VLF taxes ranging up to $1.89 per day), 
 registrations fee/tax reimbursement, and airport access fees/taxes, 
 if any, are extra. Optional CDW, liability insurance, fuel, additional
 driver fee, drop charges and other optional items are extra. Rates 
 higher for renters under age 25. Rates valid for economy rentals(unless stated otherwise by Alamo) 
 commencing on Friday and ending by 11:59 PM on Monday. Rates only valid 
 during week in which they are published via TWA Internet site. 
 A 24-hour advance reservation is required. Availability is limited. Two
 day minimum rental required. 
 
 Hotel Conditions: 
 Hilton Hotels and Resorts special rates are available only during 
 the specific week in which they are published via the TWA Hot 
 Deals Internet site and the HiltonNet Internet site. Limited 
 availability; rooms at these Hilton Value Rates are sold on a 
 first-come, first-served basis. Availability, rate, and terms of 
 occupancy are not guaranteed and will be confirmed at time of
 reservation. Participating hotels, rates and terms are subject 
 to change without notice. Single or double occupancy. Early check-in, 
 late check-out subject to availability. No extra charge for
 children when they stay in parents' or grandparents' room; 
 total room occupancy subject to local fire safety regulations
 and other applicable laws or regulations. Rates vary by season, 
 do not include any other fees or charges, including without 
 limitation state or local taxes or gratuities and are subject
 to change without notice. Advance booking required. Advance deposit
 may be required. Offer cannot be combined with any other special 
 discounts, coupons, certificates, special rates, promotional offers, 
 award stays, or meeting/group stays. Hilton reserves the right to 
 cancel any Hilton Value Rate at any time without notice. Hilton 
 is not responsible for the terms of other offers in the program, 
 or for any electronic, computer, telephone, security, virus 
 or any other problem or damage related to use of the 
 program or its offers.  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Marita Nasman-Repo 
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 07:11:26 -0800 (PST)
To: press-english-general@lists.datafellows.com
Subject: MEDIA RELEASE: Data Fellows Joins the Microsoft Security Partners Program
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19981215170136.0098ad60@smtp.datafellows.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 4681
Lines: 109


This message comes from Data Fellows. You have previously expressed
interest in our products or asked to be included on one of our press
release lists. To remove yourself from our mailing lists, reply to this
message with the text "remove " in the subject field.

PRESS RELEASE

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE


Data Fellows Joins the Microsoft Security Partners Program

Helsinki, Finland, December 15, 1998-- Data Fellows, the global leader in
developing data security software solutions, has been invited to join the
Microsoft Security Partners Program.

The Microsoft Security Partners Program
(http://www.microsoft.com/security/partners) provides customers with the
tools and information they need to establish, test and maintain effective
information security for their computing infrastructure. The program brings
together software manufacturers, security consultants and security
trainers, making it even easier for customers to provide robust security in
their Microsoft Windows NT operating system-based networks.

Three Data Fellows products are included in the Microsoft Security Partners
Program. F-Secure Workstation Suite consists of malicious code detection
and removal as well as unobtrusive file and network encryption, all
integrated into a policy-based management architecture. F-Secure VPN+
provides a software-based, IPSec/IKE VPN solution scaleable for large
corporate networks as well as remote and small office networks. F-Secure
FileCrypto is the first and only product to integrate strong real-time
encryption directly into the Windows NT-based file system.

"Microsoft is pleased to include Data Fellows as part of its Security
Partners Program," said Karan Khanna, Windows NT Security Product Manager
at Microsoft Corp. "This program will help our mutual customers develop and
deploy secure solutions built on the Windows NT platform."

"The relationship with Microsoft shows Data Fellows' commitment to improve
the native security of standalone and networked computers with a
comprehensive, centrally managed suite of security services," said Risto
Siilasmaa, president and CEO of Data Fellows. "Data Fellows is committed to
providing globally available seamless security for Windows users; security
that is strong yet easy to manage and economical."

Data Fellows is one of the world's leading developers of data security
products. The company develops, markets and supports anti-virus, data
security and cryptography software products for corporate computer
networks. The company has head offices in San Jose, California, and Espoo,
Finland, and branch offices in Washington, DC, Calgary, London, Paris and
Munich, as well as corporate partners, VARs and distributors in over 80
countries. 

All F-Secure products are integrated into the F-Secure Framework management
architecture, which provides a three-tier, scaleable, policy-based
management infrastructure which minimizes the costs of security management. 

In addition to the products in the Microsoft Security Partners Program, the
F-Secure product line also includes the following products. F-Secure
Anti-Virus is the most comprehensive, real-time virus scanning and
protection system for all Windows platforms. It utilizes multiple scanning
engines, including F-PROT and AVP. F-Secure SSH provides secure remote
login, terminal, and other connections over unsecured networks. It is the
most widely used secure remote administration tool. F-Secure NameSurfer is
the solution for remote Internet and intranet DNS administration. Its
easy-to-use WWW user interface automates and simplifies DNS administration.

Data Fellows has customers in more than 100 countries. Its customers
include many of the world's largest industrial corporations and best-known
telecommunications companies, major international airlines, governments,
post offices and defence forces, and several of the world's largest banks. 

Data Fellows was named one of the Top 100 Technology companies in the world
by Red Herring magazine in its September 1998 issue. Other commendations
include the Virus Bulletin 100 % award (several times in 1998); Hot Product
of the Year 1997 (Data Communications Magazine); and the 1996 European
Information Technology Grand Prize.

For more information, please contact 

USA:
Data Fellows, Inc.
Mr. Pirkka Palomaki
675 N. First Street, 8th floor
San Jose, CA 95112
USA
Tel. +1 408 938 6700, fax +1 408 938 6701
E-mail: Pirkka.Palomaki@DataFellows.com

Europe:
Data Fellows Ltd.
Mr. Ari Hypponen
PL 24
FIN-02331 Espoo
Finland
Tel. +358 9 859 900, fax. +358 9 8599 0599
E-mail: Ari.Hypponen@DataFellows.com




--
Marita.Nasman-Repo@DataFellows.com, 
World-Wide Web http://www.DataFellows.com





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Ray Hirschfeld 
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 17:47:29 -0800 (PST)
To: R.Hirschfeld@cwi.nl
Subject: FC99 Preliminary Conference Program
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 8499
Lines: 286


                      Financial Cryptography '99
                 February 22-25, 1999, Anguilla, BWI
                    Preliminary Conference Program

FC99, the third international conference on financial data security
and digital commerce, will be held in Anguilla, British West Indies.
FC99 aims to bring together persons involved in both the financial and
data security fields to foster cooperation and exchange of ideas.  The
conference is organized by the International Financial Cryptography
Association (IFCA).


PRELIMINARY CONFERENCE PROGRAM

Monday 22 February

Session 1: Electronic Commerce

Experimenting with electronic commerce on the PalmPilot
Neil Daswani, Dan Boneh (Stanford, U.S.A.)

Blinding of credit card numbers in the SET protocol
Hugo Krawczyk (Technion, Israel)

Session 2: Anonymity Control

Trustee tokens: Simple and practical anonymous digital coin tracing
Ari Juels (RSA Laboratories, U.S.A.)

A new approach for anonymity control in electronic cash systems
Tomas Sander, Amnon Ta-Shma (ICSI, U.S.A.)

Session 3: Fraud Management

E-cash systems with randomized audit
Yacov Yacobi (Microsoft Research, U.S.A.)

Assessment of counterfeit transaction detection systems for smart card
based ecash
Kazuo Ezawa, Gregory Napiorkowski, Mariusz Kossarski (Mondex International,
U.S.A.)


Tuesday 23 February

Session 4: Invited Speaker

Adi Shamir (Weizmann Institute, Israel)

Session 5: Public-Key Certificates

Reasoning about public-key certification: On bindings between entities and
public keys
Reto Kohlas, Ueli Maurer (ETH, Switzerland)

Online certificate status checking in financial transactions: The case for
re-issuance
Barbara Fox, Brian LaMacchia (Microsoft, U.S.A.)

Online certificate checking: One year later
Panel discussion led by Michael Myers (VeriSign, U.S.A.)


Wednesday 24 February

Session 6: Steganography

Playing `hide and seek' with stored keys
Adi Shamir (Weizmann Institute, Israel), Nicko van Someren (nCipher, England)

On channel capacity and modulation in watermarking of digital still images
Markus Breitbach, Hideki Imai (University of Tokyo, Japan)

Session 7: Content Distribution

Towards making broadcast encryption practical
Michel Abdalla (U.C. San Diego), Yuval Shavitt and Avishai Wool (Bell
Labs, U.S.A.)

Conditional access concepts and principles
David Kravitz and David Goldschlag (Divx, U.S.A.)

Fair use, intellectual property, and the information economy
Panel discussion led by Joan Feigenbaum (AT&T Labs, U.S.A.)


Thursday 25 February

Session 8: Anonymity Mechanisms

Anonymous authentication of membership in dynamic groups
Stuart Schecter (Harvard), Todd Parnell, Alexander Hartemink (MIT, U.S.A.)

Some open issues and new directions in group signatures
Giuseppe Ateniese (Universita di Genova, Italy), Gene Tsudik (USC ISI,
U.S.A.)

Session 9: Auctions and Markets

Anonymous investing: Hiding the identities of stockholders
Philip MacKenzie (Bell Labs, U.S.A.), Jeffrey Sorensen (IBM Research, U.S.A.)

Fair on-line auctions without special trusted parties
Stuart Stubblebine (AT&T Labs, U.S.A.), Paul Syverson (Naval Research Lab,
U.S.A.)

Session 10: Distributed Cryptography

"Dynamic Fault"-robust cryptosystems meet organizational needs for dynamic
control
Yair Frankel and Moti Yung (CertCo, U.S.A.)

Improved magic ink signatures using hints
Markus Jakobsson (Bell Labs, U.S.A.), Joy Muller (Gutenberg University,
Germany)


RUMP SESSION

In addition to the regular conference program, a rump session will be
held on the evening of Tuesday 23 February to provide an opportunity
for less formal presentations.  Although the rump session will be
organized during the conference itself, advance proposals may be
submitted by email.  Rump session contributions will not appear in the
conference proceedings.

Send rump session contributions to:
Matt Blaze
email: mab@research.att.com


EXHIBITION

An exhibition will be held in conjunction with the technical program,
with product displays, demonstrations, and presentations of a
business-oriented nature.  Scientific sessions are primarily scheduled
for the mornings and exhibition sessions for the afternoons.


CONFERENCE VENUE

The conference will be held at Chandeliers, the conference facility of
the InterIsland Hotel, which is on Road Bay, near Sandy Ground
Village, in the South Hill section of Anguilla.  The conference will
have TCP/IP internet access.  Shuttle service between the conference
and the Mariners hotel will be available.


REGISTRATION

Registration can be done via the web at URL http://fc99.ai/.  The fee
for the conference, which covers all conference materials and events
(including preproceedings, final proceedings, attendance at scientific
sessions, and breakfast and lunch each day of the conference), is:

$850 regular registration
$350 academic registration
$150 student registration

An additional $50 fee applies to registrations for which payment is
received after January 1, 1999.

A $100 discount ($50 for academic and student registrations) is
available to participants who pay their registration fee by electronic
money.

Payment may be made by credit card, bank transfer, electronic money,
or cash.


STIPENDS

A limited number of stipends to help defray the costs of attendance
may be available to full-time students with a paper accepted for
presentation at the conference.  If you would like to apply for a
stipend, please contact the General Chair at the email address listed
below.


HOTEL ACCOMODATION

The conference hotel is not recommended except to those seeking budget
accomodations.  The recommended hotel is Mariners, where a block
reservation has been made.  To reserve a room, please call the hotel
at +1 (809) 497-2671 and mention that you will be attending FC99.
Information about other hotels is available at URL http://fc99.ai.


WELCOME RECEPTION

A welcome reception will be held from 6:30pm to 8:00pm on Monday,
February 22, 1999, the evening of the first day of the conference.


GENERAL INFORMATION

Visas

Visas are not required for citizens of most American and European
countries.  If you are uncertain about whether you need a visa,
contact the local British consulate for information.

Getting to Anguilla

>From North America, Anguilla is usually reached via San Juan (Puerto
Rico).  From Europe, the best connections are via
St. Maarten/St. Martin (from Amsterdam or Paris), or Antigua (from
London).  St. Martin is very close to Anguilla and is connected by
ferry as well as by plane.

Local Transportation

The simplest way to get around Anguilla is to rent a car.  You will
need to buy an Anguilla drivers license, but this is a formality.
Taxis are also available.  Another possibility is to hitch rides from
local residents, who are eager to provide them and will often stop to
offer rides unsolicited.  Transportation will be provided at specific
times between Mariners and the InterIsland hotel.

Weather

Expect temperatures in the 20's or 30's Celsius, 70's or 80's
Fahrenheit.  There is often a strong wind, with cloudbursts that
quickly blow over.  Dress code for the conference is shorts and
T-shirt.

Money

The local currency is the Eastern Caribbean dollar (EC$), with an
exchange rate of approximately EC$2.7/US$1, but many goods and
services in Anguilla, particularly those aimed primarily at tourists
(such as restaurants and hotels) are priced in US dollars.  US dollars
are freely tradable everywhere on the island, so there is no need to
obtain EC dollars before arrival.


PROGRAM COMMITTEE

Joan Feigenbaum, AT&T Labs
Yair Frankel, CertCo
Matthew Franklin, Xerox PARC
David Goldschlag, Divx
Markus Jakobsson, Bell Labs
Ari Juels, RSA Labs
Arjen Lenstra, Citibank
Clifford Neuman, Univ. Southern California
Berry Schoenmakers, Digicash
Jacques Stern, ENS
Yacov Yacobi, Microsoft
Bennet Yee, U.C. San Diego

Program Chair:
Matthew Franklin        
email: franklin@parc.xerox.com


ORGANIZING COMMITTEE

General Chair:
Rafael Hirschfeld
email: ray@unipay.nl

Local Arrangements Chair:
Vincent Cate
email: vince@offshore.ai


SPONSORS

FC99 is sponsored by:

nCipher Corporation 
e-gold Transnational 
Hansa Bank & Trust Company 
Offshore Information Services 

If you are interested in sponsoring FC99, please contact the General
Chair at the email address listed above.

For further information, please see the main FC99 conference web page
at URL http://fc99.ai/.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "sales@equipmentresource.com" 
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 11:26:15 -0800 (PST)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: Equipment Resource: December Equipment Update
Message-ID: <199812161918.DAA03679@maesgi.mae.cuhk.edu.hk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 2371
Lines: 72


EQUIPMENT RESOURCE 
Ph:303-451-8022 Fax:303-451-8747
11184 Huron Ste.12 Northglenn, CO 80234 

Equipment Resource wishes you a Happy Holiday!
What better way to get ready for a prosperous New Year than to 
Accelerate Assembly. Increase production floor space by selling 
your surplus, or add a link on our web site to increase sales.
(click on the http links to view equipment. You must be online.)

Equipment Resource presents it's top 10 list to increase 
production and save money!

1.Westek Formula III Plus. Inline Aqueous Cleaner. Great cleaner, 
Great Condition.

2.Eubanks 2700 -IV. Wire cut/strip system. With TAB wire marker. 
Beautiful Shape.

3.Watkins Johnson 18-SMD. Reflow oven. Edge Rail, N2O. Convection. 
Nice Shape, Nice Price.

4.Quad 100 Pick and Place Systems. Several available. 
Great start up system.
http://www.equipmentresource.com/quad_100_pick.htm

5.Unit Design MDS 100. Drag Solder System. Rebuilt from the 
frame up. Warranty available.
http://www.equipmentresource.com/images/UDMDS.jpg

6.Hepco 8000-1. Axial Cut and Form. Tape feed. 
Hassle free component prep!
http://www.equipmentresource.com/images/Hepco8000-1.JPG 

7.Blue M Oven. 1 Cubic foot interior. 38c to 260c. 
Stabil-Therm Controller. Make an offer.

8.ECD 6300 Batch Washer. PCB Cleaning made easy. 
No Frills, Nice Price.
http://www.equipmentresource.com/images/ECD6300-101398.JPG

9.Cut & Bend. Hand Crank Axial Prep System. 
Simple efficient way to increase production.
http://www.equipmentresource.com/images/cutbend.jpg

10.AMI Presco 1826. Screen Printer. Most under-rated system 
on the market.= Quality/Low cost
Leasing available on all equipment

For a complete listing of Equipment, to Sell your Surplus at 
no Cost, or to take advantage of a Free link to your web page 
go to .http://www.equipmentresource.com

If you know someone who could benefit from our services please 
forward this to them.

If you do not wish to receive equipment updates please reply 
with remove in the subject line to.

All recipients who do not reply to remove will receive further 
updates. 
Thank you all; buyers and sellers, friends old and new, and 
inquirers too for your business and support all thru the year 
of 1998. We send our sincere wish for a prosperous business year 
with good health and much happiness to each of you.

Sincerely, All of us at Equipment Resource.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bullwinkle@3253137429
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:45:04 -0800 (PST)
To: bullwinkle@3253137429
Subject: Yo, Sorry about the delay!
Message-ID: <199812170000.BAA12492@www.pml.it>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 9349
Lines: 146


BOOST YOUR SEX APPEAL AND CHANGE YOUR SOCIAL AND SEX LIFE FOREVER. 

SCIENCE AND NATURE'S SEXUAL SECRET WEAPON! 

Scientists have isolated the natural Human male/female Pheromone attractants 
and they are NOW available to YOU, legally, in the US. 

ATTRACT THE OPPOSITE SEX LIKE NEVER BEFORE ! 
IT'S GUARANTEED, or you pay nothing! 


PHEROMONES in the News! 

>From the NY Times to the LA Times. USA Today, The Wall Street Journal, Psychology Today, 20/20, Hard Copy, Single Living, Medical Tribune, Philadelphia Inquirer, Dateline, Discovery, Hustler, Playboy, Rocky Mountain News, McCalls, Penthouse, Cosmopolitan, BBC-TV, Colordao Telegraph, GQ, Time, Redbook, Fortune Magazine, and more.  Radio and Television Stations worldwide.  All have reported the scientific findings amidst excitement, controversy, commotion and thrill about pheromones and their potential use. 


The Press Has Said it Better Than We Can. 

"PUT IT TO THE TEST" MERIDIAN TV: 
Sold extensively in the UK, phermomones were tested live on television in the UK, when the unknowing female presenter was VERY ATTRACTED to one of the twin guys,  he was wearing "Androstenone Pheromone"  but she did not know this, and did not know why she was attracted to him ! 

US NEWS and WORLD REPORTS 
"The key to starting a love affair might be right under your nose. Scientists have just announced the discovery of a virtual sixth sense, a tiny organ in the nasal cavity that responds to chemicals known as pheromones. These natural substances are thought to play a role in basic human emotions such as fear, hunger--and love." 
FORTUNE MAGAZINE:  
"An imaginative University of Utah anatomist named David L. Berliner was working with substances that occur in human skin. When he left some of the extracts in open vials around the lab, he noticed a sudden, puzzling rise in camaraderie among a previously acrimonious group of researchers working with him. When he changed the extracts a 
few months later, the group resumed its contentious ways. Berliner froze and saved the extracts. 
Nearly 30 years later, ...  thanks to a method of containing drugs and cosmetics inside tiny, spongelike polymer spheres, he returned to the subject. In 1989 he ... has isolated the suspected good-fellowship pheromones -- behavior-controlling substances similar to those already known to stimulate sexual activity in animals. (One whiff of a pheromone called aphrodisin from a female hamster and a male is ready to mate.) 

On March 3, 1998 FOX Affiliate, WSVN in Miami did a story on Pheromones, stating, "If you're looking for love, we've got a potion for passion." ...  "Tonight, a secret weapon to attract the opposite sex.  Researchers developing their own passion potion. Ever been attracted to someone but weren't really sure why? .... More and more research is pointing to chemicals these days.... undetectable chemicals... pheromones ... a clear odorless liquid" 

Customers Say: 

"... works as advertised, best product of its' kind" 

I've always had trouble meeting women-then I tried your product.  Now girls come up to me and introduce themselves all the time! I'd like to know if your product is available in a larger quantity so I can make sure I'm never without it! 
-Dave J 

I've been driving a tractor trailer for about 6 years and I'm on the road all the time. It's been impossible to meet women until I tried pheromones.  Now every truck stop I pull into I meet new women, and many of them ask me out. Thanks! 
-Tom on the Road Again, 

WHAT ARE PHEROMONES? 

Pheromones are a naturally occurring chemical compound found in all insects, all animals, and in humans. When pheromones are secreted they dictate sexual behavior and attract the opposite sex.  Be careful. Animal pheromones do NOT attract humans. 

Have you ever wondered why people who are not particularly attractive seem to attract dates like flies to honey?  They seem to have some "chemical attraction" about themselves. Some call it animal magnetism. It may be pheromones.  Now you can have that "chemical attraction" whenever you want. 

PHEROMONES - THE FACTS 

       Pheromones are natural chemicals which play an important role in sexual communication. 

       Animals, including humans release chemicals in tears, saliva and perspiration. These chemicals send signals relating to mood and health to the subconscious awareness.  One theory is that the dominant male will exude more of these chemical attractants than a submissive or weaker male.  This chemical attracts more females to him.  It is similar for woman attracting men. This natural attractant can also contribute to more 
intense excitement during love making (sexual foreplay and sexual intercourse). Pheromones may also contribute to the dating phrase, "chemical attraction" that we all talk about.  WSVN-TV (March 3, 1998) "Ever been attracted to someone but weren't really sure why? .... More and more research is pointing to chemicals these days.... undetectable chemicals... pheromones ... a clear odorless liquid" 


MORE RESEARCH AND REFERENCES: 
Following is some research done on products made by our manufacturer, and bottled under a different name.  It contains the same pheromone type and content as Hi-Octane
http://www.angelfire.com/fl/beaches69/index.html 



ABOUT OUR PRODUCT: 

Hi-Octane (tm) 

.. is made up of PHEROMONES suspended in witch hazel.. This product is designed to be added to your favorite cologne or perfume. 

.. contains both male and female PHEROMONES. Nature never intended for 
just one PHEROMONE to be present; but two, male and female. Our manufacturering process uses both PHEROMONES in ALL our products. This will not attract same sex; 
but works as nature intended, attracting the opposite sex. 

.. comes in 1/8 oz. Bottle with a small funnel so you can easily pour it into 
your cologne or perfume. One 1/8 oz. bottle is enough to mix with 4 to 8 oz of 
your favorite perfume product.  

Similar pheromone products have been sold for up to $100 elsewhere. We sell the the strongest product on the market today for only $39.95. 

BUY two -- get one free. 

The world's largest manufacturer of Pheromones, MC Marble, now manufactures Hi-Octane (tm), a pheromone prodcut that is the "Most Powerful sexual attractant on the Market today." 

HI_OCTANE is made with two powerful synthesized human 
pheromones, Alpha-Androstenol and Alpha-Androstenone. 

HI-OCTANE  will attract the opposite sex of the wearer.  McCall's magazine writes 
"...pheromones can improve one's love life, pheromones send out subconscious 
scent signals to the opposite sex that naturally trigger romantic feelings." 

HI-OCTANE  according to the manufacturer, may also intensify sex, by increasing sexual pleasure and endurance of both partners, and creating a higher sexual ecstasy. Individual results may vary.   One private study claims that pheromones don't work for everyone. 75% of those trying it had success.  Isn't it worth trying? 

HOW TO ORDER Hi OctaneTM 

Hi OctaneTM is available from Euphoria Products. 

A 1/8 oz. bottle with a convenient funnel (to be added to your favorite perfume) is 
$39.95. Mix 1/4 of the bottle with every 2 oz of your favorite product. One 1/8 oz. bottle is enough to mix with 4 to 8 oz of your favorite product. 

                         *** 

  For a limited time, when you order two bottles (up to a two month's supply) of Hi Octane(tm), you'll get a third bottle ABSOLUTELY FREE. 

                         *** 

Please add $3.00 shipping and handling per order. (regardless of how many bottles you order, you pay only $3.00 total!) 

UPS Second Day Air Delivery is available for an additional $9.00 per order.  Overnight, add $15.00 per order. 

Florida residents, please add applicable sales tax. 

For orders from outside of the US only ground shipping is available for $15. 

Our manufacturing facility offers the STRONGEST pheromones on the market today. Our manufacturing facility assures you that Hi-Octane will be always contain the male and female pheromones, the way nature intended it, to best attract the opposite sex for you. It is and will always be manufactured with the finest ingredients to assure your satisfaction. 



                        SATISFACTION GUARANTEED 

Try Hi OctaneTM risk-free. Your satisfaction is unconditionally guaranteed. If you do not find you are meeting and dating and scoring with more people of the opposite sex after using High OctaneTM for 30 days, simply return the unused portion of your order at any time for a full refund--no questions asked. 



Call 520-453-0303 Extension 202,  24 hours/day, 7 days/week for credit card orders. Have your MasterCard, Visa, American Express, and Discover Card  ready and say, " I would like to order ___ bottles of High Octane." 

If you would like to order by mail, you can send in a check or money order, or credit card information,  along with your name and street address (no PO Boxes please) and a day time phone number to: 

                         Euphoria Products Dept. 202 
                    1859 No Pine Island Rd. Suite #133
                            Plantation, FL 33322 






The Mailing List that you are being mailed from was filtered against
a Global Filter List. If you would like not to recieve any other mailings of this type please call: 1-888-745-6328






F




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: news 
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 16:23:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199812170028.AAA00601@radius.connectfree.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 7655
Lines: 192


Connect Free    Newsletter  November/December 98

Connect FREE would like to wish all our customers a Happy Christmas and a
Prosperous New Year

Welcome to Connect Free, and thank you for joining our service, we hope you
find our third newsletter informative. September and Octobers Newsletter
can be viewed on our web site at the bottom of the FREE Internet page.

Connect FREE would like to apologise for Novembers Newsletter not being
sent out. We were waiting for the upgrade to the Connect FREE network to be
completed and the launch of the new services.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Upgrades

As mentioned in our last newsletter, Connect FREE has now doubled it's
network capacity,  no more engaged tones and a faster connections to the
Internet. We have added another 2MB of bandwidth to our network and twice
as many modems and lines.

Connect FREE can NOW offer V90 connections and is the first FREE ISP to
offer 128K ISDN connections.

For 128K ISDN, please dial 0845 662 1406
For V90, please dial 0845 662 1506

For customers that connect through Aardvark the number will be
For 128K ISDN, please dial 0845 662 1409
For V90, please dial 0845 662 1509

Connect Free is aiming to be not only the first Internet Service Provider
to offer FREE Internet access but also the Best 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

POP 3 & SMTP Mail

Connect FREE is proud to announce the launch of it's E-mail Service.

Connect FREE customers can NOW receive UNLIMITED POP3 e-mail addresses,
individually password protected.

Example e-mail address: myname@connectfree.co.uk and
myname@anywhere.connectfree.co.uk

Sending emails can only be done via a Connect FREE dialup, however you will
be able to receive your mail from any other ISP's dialup account.

For your Connect FREE e-mail addresses, please go to
http://www.connectfree.net/update
Coming shortly, FREE Web space

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Changing your Details on Line

Connect FREE has designed a web page so you can alter your details on-line,
for example change your email addresses and contact details.

To update your details and add additional e-mail addresses please go to
http://www.connectfree.net/update

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Games Server

The Connect FREE Games Server has been upgraded and is better than ever
before, it also includes Quake II as well as Quake. Please check out the
bulletin board on the Games Web Page for dates on matches.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

FREE Software/FTP Web Site

Connect FREE has become a mirror site for TUCOWS, which will be available
very shortly.

What is TUCOWS?
TUCOWS is the UK premier FTP web site for FREE PC Internet software, and
because Connect FREE users will be able to connect direct to the server at
Connect FREE, bypassing the Internet, meaning downloads will be a lot faster
then you have ever seen before. The site is also updated on a daily basis, so
the latest upgrades are always available. Software available to download
includes Internet Explorer, Netscape, Mail packages, FTP software, News hosts.

You name it, we got it, and it is all for FREE!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Premium Rate Telephone Technical Support

Connect Free has launched it's Premium Rate technical support line on 0890
900 0050, sorry but all calls are charged at 50p per minute. The reason for
charging 50p per minute is because the Internet connection is
free and we need to cover our overheads and staffing cost for the technical
support lines, however we are cheaper than most of our competitors. E-mail
technical support is still available, obviously this is only useful when
you can connect to the Internet. (Please ensure you include you Login ID
with any communication)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

On-line Technical Support

If you can connect to the Internet it might be worth while checking out
www.connectfree.net/help
Connect FREE has designed a very comprehensive technical support web page,
which covers a vast amount of topics. Ranging from how to connect and
configure Mail, FTP, IRC, CHAT and Browser software to how to design a Web
Site and there is some useful tips on solving problems (Well worth a LOOK)

Support for MS Windows 3.11 95/98 NT, Apple Mac, and Linux

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

The New Connect FREE Portal

Connect FREE are proud to announce the launch of the Connect Free Portal
site in association with 2b.
A Fantastic site for up-to date News, Weather, Lottery Results, Shopping,
Entertainment, Sports and Music.
Need a map of any area within the UK, no problem, enter a postcode to
receive a map of the area you intend visiting. Searching for a service or
where to-go in any area, could not be easier with
the Connect FREE Portal.

Visit www.connectfree.2b.co.uk

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

FreeServe

For all those users out there, who have signed up with FreeServe and would
prefer to have the option of which ISP you dial into or maybe have several
connections to different ISP's. FreeServe have now decided to offer anyone
with a FreeServe connection the ability to uninstall your FreeServe software.

Check out http://www.freeserve.net/support/cserve_uninstall.htm

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Proxy Server:

We are still receiving calls on our help line regarding Proxy server
settings. Connect FREE does not currently have a Proxy Server, and if your
software is configured to look for one then you will go nowhere. If you find
that you can connect to our servers without a problem but then find that
when you launch your browser you cannot access any web pages or performance
is very slow, then you probably have the Proxy Server setting enabled. To
Disable (Win95/98): Control Panel, Internet, and Connection, Un-tick the
Proxy Server settings.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

SantaCalls

Wouldn't your child, grandchild, godchild, nephew or niece just love a
personal call from Santa this Christmas?

In association with the Variety Club we are asking our users to visit their
Santa Calls Web site. The idea is that mums and dads can enter the details
of their children i.e. names of pets and things they would like for
Christmas etc and then Santa actually phones the child and has a chat. The
kiddie is totally convinced because Santa is armed with all their details -
and who knows little Johnny might just clean that hamster out a bit more
often when he knows Santa is watching! Visit Santa Calls at
http://www.santacalls.org/

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Improvements

Connect Free would like to hear from you, if youhave any suggestions on how
we may improve our service, or adding more content to the Connect Free web
site.

It is Connect Free policy not to send unwanted rubbish by e-mail or junk
advertising by any other means. All we ask is that you receive our monthly
newsletter informing you of any changes to the service and any new service
that may come available which you may benefit from.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Contact us at   info@connectfree.net

Telephone: 0870 742 1111 (Calls charged at the current national call rate)




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: lamarck@sis.it
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 07:48:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: J. Lamarck, Advisors in Biotechnology
Message-ID: <199812171548.HAA17955@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 1780
Lines: 42


Egr. Signore / Signora,

Come č ormai ampiamente noto, č cominciato il grande processo di
transizione dall'industria chimica, che per decenni ha trainato
l'economia di molti paesi, a quella delle biotecnologie avanzate. Il
fortissimo sviluppo di questo settore sta dando vita al piů dinamico
mercato azionario di fine secolo.

La J. Lamarck č la prima societŕ di consulenza finanziaria nata per
soddisfare le esigenze di tutti coloro (privati, banche, istituzioni o
grandi aziende) che vogliono investire in biotecnologia con cognizione e
sicurezza. Offre un servizio altamente qualificato e personalizzato in
cui la disciplina, la responsabilitŕ ed il mantenimento della fiducia
del Cliente rappresentano i cardini della sua politica di management. Il
nostro programma consente di soddisfare la necessitŕ di diversificazione
di coloro che hanno intravisto la grande potenzialitŕ del settore delle
biotecnologie e desiderano perciň investire in questo segmento di
mercato in continua crescita. La diversificata composizione del
portafoglio comporta la riduzione del rischio che č normalmente
associato agli investimenti in singole imprese del settore.

Siamo continuamente orientati alla comunicazione con tutti coloro che
operano nel settore "high-tech"  e nella biotecnologia in particolare
perché, come l'esperienza americana insegna, solo l'unione delle diverse
discipline (scientifica, giuridica, finanziaria ed economica) puň creare
tutte le sinergie utili allo sviluppo di questo settore.

Se gradisce maggiori informazioni sulla nostra attivitŕ puň visitare il
nostro sito internet: http://www.lamarck.com, oppure puň contattarci alla nostra e-mail:lamarck@sis.it

RingraziandoLa per l'attenzione accordataci Le inviamo i nostri piů
distinti saluti,

J.  Lamarck 








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: JMaflk@msn.com
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 11:24:31 -0800 (PST)
To: people1@aol.com
Subject: Free Cruise for 2!  Home Based Travel Biz!
Message-ID: <44338780_95842366>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 651
Lines: 30



    Fire Your Boss And Kill the Alarm Clock!

                        WE DID!

           Travel for pennies and Get paid!
          Enjoy a complimentary Cruise for 2 

   Make $3,000 to $5,000 a week and never
                   leave your home.


We're looking for people with good work ethics
and extraordinary DESIRE who want to change
their lives.  We'll give you all the training and
support that you need to insure your success.

And if we can do it...so can you!

This is not Multi-Level Marketing or GPG.
Now you can "Make Your Vocation A Vacation"

Call NOW for information
Here's a 24 hr. TOLL FREE Number
1-800-345-9688  Ext. 1250
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Cindy" 
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 20:41:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Between our..
Message-ID: <199812180439.FAA06758@pat.telenor.no>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 765
Lines: 34




NO TRICKS - IT'S FREE! Process all major credit cards on your web
site.
NO MONTHLY COSTS, NO TRANSACTION FEES. CHECK IT OUT. You get:

- Virtual Terminal for phone/fax/mail orders
- Email receipt
- Recurring billing feature
- Password generation for membership sites
- Automatic batch closing
- Address Verification Service (AVS)
- Backoffice to access account history
- Remote mode
- Interface for all major shopping carts
- Installation included

For our free information package just reply to:
mailto:ccard@topchat.com?subject=more_info

If you are interested in becoming an authorized
agent please reply to:
mailto:ccard@topchat.com?subject=agent

If you wish to be removed from our mailing list
please reply to:
mailto:calph7@yahoo.com?subject=remove







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: DVetoiy@worldnet.att.net
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 11:35:31 -0800 (PST)
To: people1@aol.com
Subject: We Love it!$!  Travel, Money, and.....
Message-ID: <12507235_19217380>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 782
Lines: 39




FIRE THE BOSS AND BREAK THE ALARM CLOCK!
                        WE DID!

Travel for pennies on the dollar
                        And
Enjoy a complimentary cruise for two!

MAKE $3000-$5000 PER WEEK FROM HOME!
 

Read on, if you're an entrepreneur or have always wanted to be 
your own BOSS.  We supply state-of-the-art training and a
support system that you will need to ensure your success!

     
We are only looking for FOCUSED, serious entrepreneurs,
(PT/FT) with the EXTRAORDINARY  DESIRE  to improve
their lifestyle immediately.

Not Multi-level Marketing or GPG

MAKE YOUR VOCATION A VACATION"

CALL NOW FOR INFORMATION
24 HOUR TOLL FREE NUMBER

1-888-376-0353


PS:  DO NOT CALL US IF YOU'RE LAZY,  LOOKING
FOR A "GET RICH QUICK"   SCHEME OR  JUST SOME
EXTRA CASH.





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Qtgab11@aol.com
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 18:27:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Watch Your Sales Roll In With A Merchant Account!
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ARE YOU LOSING $1000s PER MONTH?

MISSING THE INTERNET E-COMMERCE RIDE?COULD YOU USE MORE BUSINESS? SALES SLOW?


WE CAN HELP!!! BY ACCEPTING ALL MAJOR CREDIT CARDS, YOUR BUSINESS CAN INCREASE
SALES UP TO 1500%!!!


E-COMMERCE SOLUTIONS STARTING UNDER $50.00 GOOD CREDIT, BAD CREDIT, NO CREDIT
OK!! 

 

PRE-APPROVED APPLICATION!!FREE APPLICATION AND SET-UP FEES!! ($340.00
SAVINGS)ACCEPT VISA, MASTERCARD, AMEX, DISCOVER AND CHECKS IN YOUR BUSINESS!

ACCEPTING CREDIT CARDS & CHECKS ON YOUR WEBSITE IS AN ABSOLUTE NECESSITY IN
TODAY'S INTERNET MARKETPLACE!E-COMMERCE SOLUTIONS STARTING UNDER $50.00ACT NOW
AND GET YOUR ACH CHECKING BSOLUTELY FREE!!

 

Don't take our word for it, take theirs....

Testimonial #1 -  "This is the best thing I ever did.  My website business
hasincreased at least 250% by being able to give my customers the
availabilityof secure credit card transactions.  We can now take orders from
all overthe world, 24 hours per day." - K.L./AL

Testimonial #2 - "Pre-approved application? Right! My doubts were erased whenI
got the approval.  Having been turned down at my local bank, I was
veryskeptical, however, within 14 days I was accepting credit cards and
mybusiness has definitely prospered.  I enjoy saying, will that be cash
orcredit? Thanks." - B.C./FL

Testimonial #3 - "Initially I did not even know what a merchant acount
was.When told by my web hosting company that I needed a merchant account to do
e-commerce transactions I did not know where to turn. Responding to an ad, I
wasamazed at the ease of implimentation of your services. I am grateful and
veryprofitable thanks to you." - F.R./NMTestimonial #4 - "Having a second
income for my family has made my life mucheasier.  Accepting credit cards on
my website has been the easiest thing Ihave ever done, I recommend this
program to everyone with a home-basedbusiness." -G.T./NY

 

                  ACT NOW!!!  THIS IS A LIMITED TIME OFFER!!!

 

Enter The Following URL Into Your Web Browser To Register:

http://3456968599/userap/ma/nm.htmle.com
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a208@sunlife.com
a209928@vantage.fmr.com
a20@primenet.com
a210518@texas.dseg.ti.com
a210566@texas.dseg.ti.com
a216004norvs1@x400gw.etn.com
a219487@etd88a.mdc.com
a2217@hotmail.com
a229aa@email.sps.mot.com
a23169@email.mot.com
a233@iglou.com
a23432@useworld.com
a234@erols.com
a2427806@sprynet.com
a24755@waccvm.corp.mot.com
a24756@hkstar.com
a25152@waccvm.corp.mot.com
a25627@vm.algoma.com
a26mber@hotmail.com
a2771@shafi.dell.com
a2783456@netvigator.com
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a291@hotmail.com
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a2@primenet.com
a2@verifone.com
a2bis2b@gnn.com
a2brute@wbmls.ca.boeing.com
a2cpl@hotmail.com
a2dcem@numbers.com
a2jim@usa.pipeline.com
a2mailcamhlotus.lotus@crd.lotus.com
a2mpt@bizserve.com
a2p6x5fv@abaco.coastalnet.com
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a2xxxlinks@psychonet.com
a2z@keydesign.com
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a347lfiedler@attmail.com
a349mgreenle@attmail.com
a34@lover.com
a35r@tmp.medtronic.com
a360b360@netvigator.com
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a3@wworlds.jd.com
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a49er@netcom.com
a49erfan@nyc.pipeline.com
a4dable@a4dable.com
a4dwald@msg.pacbell.com
a4m@mcs.com
a4poe9@westnet.com
a4slam@srv.pacbell.com
a4ssinc@pacbell.com
a4x4@indirect.com
a50146w8@awinc.com
a50154w8@awinc.com
a50154w8@awnet.com
a50177w8@awnet.com
a50178w8@awnet.com
a50223w8@awnet.com
a50321w8@awnet.com
a50341w8@awinc.com
a50341w8@awnet.com
a5048@geocities.com
a50806@gjpomail.doegjpo.com
A50VM1.TRG.NYNEX.CO@CUVMB.CC.com
A50VM1.TRG.NYNEX.COM@CUVMB.CC.com
a5271226@netvigator.com
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a55445@tribeca.ios.com
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a63strat@dreamscape.com
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a66rmpandv02@gmr.com
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a6801093@netvigator.com
a68xke@erols.com
a691645@dseg.ti.com
a69768@ganesh.mc.ti.com
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a6@netcom.com
a6zero@azstarnet.com
a700102@aetna.com
a711364@netvigator.com
a716955@hkstar.com
a7204@texoma.com
a722556@pan.mc.ti.com
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a751812@pan.mc.ti.com
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a752186@pan.mc.ti.com
a752489@pan.mc.ti.com
a754458@snoopy.mc.ti.com
a755aa@email.mot.com
a7883@en.com
a7cne30g@microceo.ixfnet.com
a7fu03ho@netvigator.com
a800@erols.com
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a825199@stealth.mc.ti.com
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a842051@dseg.ti.com
a842051@lvdc48.dseg.ti.com
a842410@dseg.ti.com
a877728@strange.uk.ti.com
a877728@tiuk.ti.com
a8812@sprynet.com
a884@village.ios.com
a888@hknet.com
a888@hotmail.com
a8@cybrport.com
a8@hell.com
a9013@idirect.com
a903309@server1.tiuk.ti.com
a904044@tiuk.ti.com
a904209@pluto.tiuk.ti.com
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a905103@tiuk.ti.com
a905576@crazy.tiuk.ti.com
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a905576@elrod.tiuk.ti.com
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a907932@nast0.bdy.wi.ameritech.com
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a908570@server1.tiuk.ti.com
a908591@tiuk.ti.com
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a909937@getafix.tiuk.ti.com
a909947@tiuk.ti.com
a909948@strange.tiuk.ti.com
a909980@tiuk.ti.com
a926092@netvigator.com
a92miata@erols.com
a948r35@aixssc.uk.ibm.com
a95supp@connectix.com
A99182@izzy.mmm.com
a992btw@nonet.com
a999roses@hotmail.com
a9@btr.btr.com
a9@btr.com
a9@public.btr.com
a9sheppa@midget.hursley.ibm.com
adslkfjlsdakf@lksjdlfkjsldkf.com
alskjreoi@aoieurmvd.com
a@a.com
a@aliroo.com
a@apollo.hp.com
a@b.b.wishing.com
a@b.c.com
a@b.com
a@bbn.com
a@castles.com
a@ccmail.ceco.com
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a@cho006.cho.ge.com
a@cisco.com
a@collideascope.com
a@cris.com
a@crl.com
a@cycor.com
a@deepcove.com
a@dev.com
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a@engvax.picker.com
a@fisons.com
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a@gw2kbbs.com
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a@jpmorgan.com
a@k.com
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a@lamg.com
a@lilly.com
a@lincoln.gpsemi.com
a@lubynsky.com
a@mail-e2b-service.gnn.com
a@mail.mother.com
a@megaweb.com
a@mindspring.com
a@moa.com
a@montrouge.ts.slb.com
a@msgw.vf.mmc.com
a@msm.cdx.mot.com
a@msmail.aai.arco.com
a@netcom.com
a@netusa1.com
a@netzone.com
a@niagara.com
a@npri6.npri.com
a@ns1.koyote.com
a@o.com
a@po.com
a@primenet.com
a@prostar.com
a@pscdp3.swindon.gpsemi.com
a@rescueinfo.com
a@sol.rtsg.mot.com
a@telerama.lm.com
a@tezcat.com
a@valmet.com
a@vnabrw.enet.dec.com
a@z.com
aa-2@deltanet.com
aa.azevedo@internetmci.com
aa04@dial.pipex.com
aa061@dial.pipex.com
aa06970@miner.com
aa0fm@vexcel.com
aa103@hotmail.com
aa143@dial.pipex.com
aa14893@inet1.tek.com
aa168292@netvigator.com
aa18@dial.pipex.com
aa1al@neca.com
aa1kf@dewco.com
aa21@dial.pipex.com
aa2345@netstar.com
aa29625@nsc.nsc.com
aa2@deltanet.com
aa2@news.preferred.com
aa2du@netcom.com
aa349@freenet.carleton.com
aa383@dial.pipex.com
aa39309@inet1.tek.com
aa3dc@westol.com
aa4030@hkstar.com
aa46@dial.pipex.com
aa4ga@contesting.com
aa5yc@bga.com
aa5yc@realtime.com
aa60@poczta.com
aa63@dial.pipex.com
aa6aa@netcom.com
aa6eg@tmx.com
aa6g@best.com
aa6ok@mail.mother.com
aa6ok@mother.com
aa6vn@bdt.com
aa6wg@directnet.com
aa7887@erols.com
aa7pd@sisna.comm
aa7pd@sisna.com




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: www.hk.super.net/
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 14:02:41 -0800 (PST)
To: http://www.emphasis.com/
Subject: the greatest date line in america!!
Message-ID: <23-ki02154re-98 (199.171.57.2)>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 548
Lines: 38






			

			FELLING LONELY TONIGHT?


Are you looking for love,marriage or just someone to have fun?

Men and woman who could share your own interest are waiting

to hear from you!  match yourself with the right person!

thousands of single peoples wants to hear you!

and you can talk with people of your area!

don't feel lonely anymore!

just call the greatest date line in america! 

10 minutes free of charge when you call!

call now!

1-900-745-8278
1-800-939-8355 (credit card)

only $2.99 per minute,no minimum.
must be 18+ to call.	






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: fjd8@giulietta.logikos.it
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 20:47:53 -0800 (PST)
To: user@the-internet
Subject: hi
Message-ID: <199812220440.FAA01696@giulietta.logikos.it>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 1240
Lines: 18


Do you know what the number one fact is, that will determine whether your business is a success or not?  ADVERTISING! Effective conventional advertising is quite expensive.  So what do you do?  Direct email is one of, if not thee most effective method of advertising in the 90's.  You can get your ad out to hundreds of thousands, even millions, for only a fraction of  the cost of traditional advertising.  The wave of future advertising is here, don't miss it  We will send your advert for you.  We have gone through painstaking methods to insure that we have the cleanest and most up to date mailing list on the Internet.   All you have to do is write your ad, we do the rest.


250,000 addresses - $265 (Holiday Special - $199)
350,000 addresses - $315 (Holiday Special - $250)
500,000 addresses - $450 (Holiday Special - $350)
1 million addresses - $800 (Holiday Special - $700)
3 million addresses - $1800 (Holiday Special -$1200)

Holiday specials end on December 31st and normal pricing will resume.  Specials are based on when you make payment not when your ad is sent.  Ad can be sent at anytime as long as payment is made by December 31st, 1998.

For more information or to place an ad call IMC Marketing at (909) 627-3557






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ABDULRAZAQ@aol.com
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 06:45:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: You Have Won World Class Florida/Caribbean Vacation Package!
Message-ID: <9434159d.367face1@aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 2614
Lines: 71


"CONGRATULATIONS"

          

                 PACK YOUR BAGS!

 
You have been selected to ENTER for a World Class Florida/Caribbean Vacation
Package offer!



You Could Be One Of The Lucky Ones! FLORIDA - ST. CROIX - LAS VEGAS GETAWAY!!!
You have been selected to ENTER for a LIMITED TIME ONLY!



FAMILY GETAWAY FOR 2 ADULTS & UP TO 3 CHILDREN, OR 4 ADULTS!

If selected you could enjoy:==>   4 Days 3 Nights in Magical Orlando Florida,
Home of Disney World were you will enjoy the hospitality of The Comfort
Suites. 

==>   Have a BLAST with a Family Pass to WATERMANIA Water Park in Orlando.  As
a Special gift You will also RECEIVE the ORLANDO "MAGIC CARD" Entitling you to
HUNDREDS OF DOLLARS worth of DISCOUNTS in the Orlando area!!!!!!!   
 
==>   Then enjoy 3 days 3 nights in Sunny Cocoa Beach Florida living it up at
the Atlantic Beach Resort overlooking the Atlantic Ocean!!!  While there enjoy
2 ADULT CASINO CRUISE TICKETS as a gift from us!

==>   An Alamo Rental Car with unlimited mileage for your stay in Florida. All
of this for only $11* Per Day Per Persom  for 4 adults or 2 adults and up to 3
children - IF You Are Selected!
 
(If you do qualify you will need to secure promotional fees on a major credit
card to guarantee your travel date and toobtain your free rental car) REGISTER
NOW AND IF YOU QUALIFY WE WILL ALSO INCLUDE THE TWO FOLLOWING VACATIONS AT NO
ADDITIONAL COST:

 ==>  3 DAYS 2 NIGHTS in beautiful Las Vegas, Nevada, and you will be staying
on the fabulous strip!          

==>  4 DAYS 3 NIGHTS in St. Croix in the Virgin Islands

(These Two Additional Mini-Vacations will be offered for a limited time) SO
HURRY .... REGISTER NOW TO SEE IF YOU QUALIFY!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------
TO  REGISTER Enter The URL Below Into Your Web Browser:
http://3456968599/userap/tr/nt.html

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------

This is NOT a Contest, Lottery, or Sweepstakes. You are qualified based on
demographics such as age, area you live in, etc. Qualified Entrants will be
contacted by one of our Experienced Travel Representatives with the full
details, ONLY ONE PHONE CALL PER HOUSHOLD. (All fields must be filled out
completely in order to be a valid entry. This info will remain completely
confidential!) * This covers all fees except for any incidentals such as
phone, food, gratuities, and hotel taxes which are paid directly to the hotel.



To Be Removed Send E-Mail To userap@spdy.com With "Delete" In Subject
Line!>!>Subject Line!>!>




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "Jean-Francois Avon" 
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 20:02:56 -0800 (PST)
To: "jf_avon@citenet.net>
Subject: [humor] Fwd: Computer News
Message-ID: <199812230409.XAA15192@cti06.citenet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 294
Lines: 15


==================BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE==================
>Subject: Computer News
>Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 20:11:42 -0800

Microsoft announced this week that due to Y2K problems, Windows 2000
will be delayed until Jan, 1901.

===================END FORWARDED MESSAGE===================







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: fbi.files@usa.net
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 18:33:47 -0800 (PST)
To: unique_info@your.files
Subject: Get Your FBI Files!
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 9635
Lines: 158


Are you now or have you ever been in the FBI files?

The answer is, most likely, Yes!  Just about everyone has their own FBI file.

How do we know?  The authors did research under the Freedom of Information Act.  It shows that government agencies do not like being held accountable to the public and resist the efforts of citizens who seek information about their activities.

>>>>>>>>Starting Dec. 4, 1998, we are running a TV commercial nationwide for the following offer.  If you snooze, you will lose!  You will also see our ad in newspapers and hear it on the radio.  We expect, at some point, the FBI will knock on our door and tell us to stop selling the book because they are getting too many inquiries.  The huge demand will make it difficult for latecomers to obtain their FBI files.


First about the FBI filing system.  It was created to deter anybody from getting full information.  The FBI uses many record systems.  They created what is called "Main Files" with four classifications:
	* Personal
	* Administrative
	* Applicant (for government employees)
	* Investigative
To further confuse us, the FBI created 210 classification numbers besides the files called "Confidential," "Secret," and "Top Secret."  Here are some of the classification numbers and the categories they stand for:
	#3 - Overthrow or Destruction of the Government
	#5 - Income Tax
	#17 - Veteran Administration Matters
	#23 - Prohibition (Maybe your Grandfather is here.)
	#40 - Passport and Visa Matters
	#47 - Impersonation
	#49 - National Bankruptcy Act
	#64 - Foreign (This one is interesting.  Intelligence information about citizens of foreign countries!)
	#72 - Obstruction of Criminal Justice
	#85 - Home Owner Loan Corporation
	#162 - Interstate Gambling Activities
	#183 - Racketeer-Influenced and Corrupt Organizations (You know this one -- RICO.)
	 
	
There is a specific system of numbering documents.  It was not easy for the investigative team to decipher and decode how the numbering relates to everyone.  Your FBI ID number most likely consists of three sets of numbers. For example:  100-15375-17
	100 - marks the document as part of a domestic security investigation.
	15375 - indicates the document investigation number.  These two sets of numbers together creates a "case number."
	17 - a numeric labeling, but to confuse everyone, it could be an incoming or outgoing document.


But, we have the solution.  An awesome publication, "FBI Files,"  is now available.  As a bonus, we created a letter for you which covers all possible requests so none of the information is missing when you get your file.

Here is how it works.  If you don't ask for it, you don't get it.  That's a LAW!  But, if you know what to ask for, you MUST get it.  That's also a LAW! Our researchers spent twenty years just uncovering what to ask for.

Today, if you ask for your file without being specific, you may be brushed off with questions as to which main file, subfile,  or some very strange, cryptic language and code names such as "Elsurs Logs," "MISUR," "TESUR," "FOIA," Document Classification Reveiw Unit known as "CRU," and so on.

Who has an FBI file?
	* All Criminals
	* Organized Crime Members
	* Government Employees
	* Celebrities
	* Foreigners who became U.S. Citizens
	* All Foreigners with Green Cards
	* Foreign Nationals	
	* Members of Interest Groups
	* Everyone involved in Counter-Intelligence
	* Black Nationalist hate groups
	* Internal Security
	* All Politicians
	* Everyone with any kind of Police Record
	* All Professionals who are fingerprinted for a specific profession -- example, Real Estate Agents
	* All Fugitives
	* Computer Hackers and Flamers

We believe that everyone today has an FBI file and that your future National ID # is going to be your FBI File number!

The book, "FBI Files," gives you detailed information on how you can obtain all files the FBI has on you.  It will also give you information how to obtain the FBI files of other people. The FBI will not release these voluntarily.  You may have to jump through some hoops to get them.  But, under the Freedom of Information Act, you are entitled to get ANY information unless it is subject to national security.

When you receive your files you may be shocked to learn that your local police have a wiretap and surveillance on you.  You find out your neighbor is an FBI informant.  You may even find out your trash was picked up by the FBI and derogatory information was put in your file.

If you ever attended a "politically incorrect" meeting or political rally, you may find your picture in your file. Or if you purchased a book or magazine considered "underground," that information may be in your file. Or your neighbor may have heard you listening to a talk show considered "politcally incorrect" and may have reported you to the authorities.

Does this sound far-fetched?  We wish!  Things like this are happening every day.

Why do you NEED your FBI files?  Your future job or promotion may depend on the information contained in those files!  It is a MUST for you to obtain your files and correct any and all incorrect information before it affects your life!

NOW is the time to order.............................

"FBI Files" is 226 pages of detailed information and instructions. When you read your own FBI files, you may be shocked to learn that your local police have a wiretap and surveillance on you.  You may find out your neighbor is an informant.  You may even find out your garbage was picked up by the FBI and derogatory information put in your file.  By the way, if you find any derogatory information which is not yours but appears in your file, you can sue the government for huge sums of money!


Procrastination on your part may just keep you from being able to get YOUR FBI FILES!  Order now and avoid the rush.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is how to order:


Our "FBI Files" package is being offered at the Special Promotion price of $24.95 which includes shipping and handling by Priority Mail ($9.95).  You should receive your book within 7-10 days from receipt of order.  

.......Here are the BONUSES for you........
  *You will receive a letter created by our Research Dept. in which you just fill in your Name, Address, Social Security Number, and start searching for your file or files.  Depending on who you are and what may be in your file will be the measurement of how long it will take to receive all the information.  But, eventually, YOU WILL SUCCEED!

  *You will also receive an updated list of FBI field offices in the United States with their addresses.

  *We will also include a special folder in which you can store your information.



You can send us a check (takes at least 5 business days to clear) or money order.  We also accept all major Credit Cards:  Visa, MasterCard, American Express, and Discover. 


Print out the convenient order form below NOW and mail it to:

	World Net Press
	Dept. E-1224
	P.O. Box 96594
	Las Vegas, NV 89193-6594
	
Payment Method:  
_____ Check     
_____ Money Order
_____ Visa
_____ MasterCard
_____ American Express
_____ Discover

_____ Yes, I want to order my copy of the "FBI Files Package" which includes the Bonus letter I can send to the FBI, the updated list of FBI Field Offices, and a special folder for storing my information.  Price is $24.95 which includes shipping and handling by Priority Mail($9.95) and bonuses.


Name_________________________________________________________________________

Address______________________________________________________________________

City/State/Zip_______________________________________________________________

Daytime Phone (__________)___________________________________________________

E-Mail Address_______________________________________________________________

Credit Card #_____________________________________________ Exp. Date_________

Cardholder Name (as it appears on the card)__________________________________

(Please make sure you include your phone number and e-mail address in case we have a question about your order.  Your credit card billing will reflect Road to Wealth, Inc.)

If you are unhappy with "FBI Files," just return the book within 30 days of date of purchase and we will refund the price of the book less shipping and handling and a restocking fee of 15%.



>>>>>>We have many publications and videos with thought-provoking titles available.  If you would like more information, please reply to this message and type MORE INFO in the subject line.  Thank you. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>



**************************************************************************
You are receiving this e-mail for one of the following reasons:
a) You are interested the subjects we have to offer.
b) You are on our in-house mailing list.
c) You sent us your offer or contacted us in the past.
d) Someone you know has sent us your e-mail address because they thought you may be interested in what we have to offer.

If this message has reached you in error, or the information is not correct, please accept our apology.  Follow the instructions below to be removed and we will honor your request.  We do not knowingly engage in spam of any kind.

Please click on your reply button and type REMOVE in the SUBJECT LINE ONLY.  The software ignores any message in the body.
**************************************************************************

Please be advised we collect the e-mail addresses of all flamers, hackers, and users of abusive and vulgar language.  We submit these addresses to the FBI and Interpol on a monthly basis.  







From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: bettyrubble@193.230.240.21
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 09:52:36 -0800 (PST)
To: Clintongirl@193.230.240.21
Subject: Ecstasy, The means & the way to a true orgasm!
Message-ID: <199812261749.RAA15970@ns0.telegraph.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 9343
Lines: 141


BOOST YOUR SEX APPEAL AND CHANGE YOUR SOCIAL AND SEX LIFE FOREVER. 

SCIENCE AND NATURE'S SEXUAL SECRET WEAPON! 

Scientists have isolated the natural Human male/female Pheromone attractants 
and they are NOW available to YOU, legally, in the US. 

ATTRACT THE OPPOSITE SEX LIKE NEVER BEFORE ! 
IT'S GUARANTEED, or you pay nothing! 


PHEROMONES in the News! 

>From the NY Times to the LA Times. USA Today, The Wall Street Journal, Psychology Today, 20/20, Hard Copy, Single Living, Medical Tribune, Philadelphia Inquirer, Dateline, Discovery, Hustler, Playboy, Rocky Mountain News, McCalls, Penthouse, Cosmopolitan, BBC-TV, Colordao Telegraph, GQ, Time, Redbook, Fortune Magazine, and more.  Radio and Television Stations worldwide.  All have reported the scientific findings amidst excitement, controversy, commotion and thrill about pheromones and their potential use. 


The Press Has Said it Better Than We Can. 

"PUT IT TO THE TEST" MERIDIAN TV: 
Sold extensively in the UK, phermomones were tested live on television in the UK, when the unknowing female presenter was VERY ATTRACTED to one of the twin guys,  he was wearing "Androstenone Pheromone"  but she did not know this, and did not know why she was attracted to him ! 

US NEWS and WORLD REPORTS 
"The key to starting a love affair might be right under your nose. Scientists have just announced the discovery of a virtual sixth sense, a tiny organ in the nasal cavity that responds to chemicals known as pheromones. These natural substances are thought to play a role in basic human emotions such as fear, hunger--and love." 
FORTUNE MAGAZINE:  
"An imaginative University of Utah anatomist named David L. Berliner was working with substances that occur in human skin. When he left some of the extracts in open vials around the lab, he noticed a sudden, puzzling rise in camaraderie among a previously acrimonious group of researchers working with him. When he changed the extracts a 
few months later, the group resumed its contentious ways. Berliner froze and saved the extracts. 
Nearly 30 years later, ...  thanks to a method of containing drugs and cosmetics inside tiny, spongelike polymer spheres, he returned to the subject. In 1989 he ... has isolated the suspected good-fellowship pheromones -- behavior-controlling substances similar to those already known to stimulate sexual activity in animals. (One whiff of a pheromone called aphrodisin from a female hamster and a male is ready to mate.) 

On March 3, 1998 FOX Affiliate, WSVN in Miami did a story on Pheromones, stating, "If you're looking for love, we've got a potion for passion." ...  "Tonight, a secret weapon to attract the opposite sex.  Researchers developing their own passion potion. Ever been attracted to someone but weren't really sure why? .... More and more research is pointing to chemicals these days.... undetectable chemicals... pheromones ... a clear odorless liquid" 

Customers Say: 

"... works as advertised, best product of its' kind" 

I've always had trouble meeting women-then I tried your product.  Now girls come up to me and introduce themselves all the time! I'd like to know if your product is available in a larger quantity so I can make sure I'm never without it! 
-Dave J 

I've been driving a tractor trailer for about 6 years and I'm on the road all the time. It's been impossible to meet women until I tried pheromones.  Now every truck stop I pull into I meet new women, and many of them ask me out. Thanks! 
-Tom on the Road Again, 

WHAT ARE PHEROMONES? 

Pheromones are a naturally occurring chemical compound found in all insects, all animals, and in humans. When pheromones are secreted they dictate sexual behavior and attract the opposite sex.  Be careful. Animal pheromones do NOT attract humans. 

Have you ever wondered why people who are not particularly attractive seem to attract dates like flies to honey?  They seem to have some "chemical attraction" about themselves. Some call it animal magnetism. It may be pheromones.  Now you can have that "chemical attraction" whenever you want. 

PHEROMONES - THE FACTS 

       Pheromones are natural chemicals which play an important role in sexual communication. 

       Animals, including humans release chemicals in tears, saliva and perspiration. These chemicals send signals relating to mood and health to the subconscious awareness.  One theory is that the dominant male will exude more of these chemical attractants than a submissive or weaker male.  This chemical attracts more females to him.  It is similar for woman attracting men. This natural attractant can also contribute to more 
intense excitement during love making (sexual foreplay and sexual intercourse). Pheromones may also contribute to the dating phrase, "chemical attraction" that we all talk about.  WSVN-TV (March 3, 1998) "Ever been attracted to someone but weren't really sure why? .... More and more research is pointing to chemicals these days.... undetectable chemicals... pheromones ... a clear odorless liquid" 


MORE RESEARCH AND REFERENCES: 
Following is some research done on products made by our manufacturer, and bottled under a different name.  It contains the same pheromone type and content as Hi-Octane
http://www.angelfire.com/fl/beaches69/index.html 



ABOUT OUR PRODUCT: 

Hi-Octane (tm) 

.. is made up of PHEROMONES suspended in witch hazel.. This product is designed to be added to your favorite cologne or perfume. 

.. contains both male and female PHEROMONES. Nature never intended for 
just one PHEROMONE to be present; but two, male and female. Our manufacturering process uses both PHEROMONES in ALL our products. This will not attract same sex; 
but works as nature intended, attracting the opposite sex. 

.. comes in 1/8 oz. Bottle with a small funnel so you can easily pour it into 
your cologne or perfume. One 1/8 oz. bottle is enough to mix with 4 to 8 oz of 
your favorite perfume product.  

Similar pheromone products have been sold for up to $100 elsewhere. We sell the the strongest product on the market today for only $39.95. 

BUY two -- get one free. 

The world's largest manufacturer of Pheromones, MC Marble, now manufactures Hi-Octane (tm), a pheromone prodcut that is the "Most Powerful sexual attractant on the Market today." 

HI_OCTANE is made with two powerful synthesized human 
pheromones, Alpha-Androstenol and Alpha-Androstenone. 

HI-OCTANE  will attract the opposite sex of the wearer.  McCall's magazine writes 
"...pheromones can improve one's love life, pheromones send out subconscious 
scent signals to the opposite sex that naturally trigger romantic feelings." 

HI-OCTANE  according to the manufacturer, may also intensify sex, by increasing sexual pleasure and endurance of both partners, and creating a higher sexual ecstasy. Individual results may vary.   One private study claims that pheromones don't work for everyone. 75% of those trying it had success.  Isn't it worth trying? 

HOW TO ORDER Hi OctaneTM 

Hi OctaneTM is available from Euphoria Products. 

A 1/8 oz. bottle with a convenient funnel (to be added to your favorite perfume) is 
$39.95. Mix 1/4 of the bottle with every 2 oz of your favorite product. One 1/8 oz. bottle is enough to mix with 4 to 8 oz of your favorite product. 

                         *** 

  For a limited time, when you order two bottles (up to a two month's supply) of Hi Octane(tm), you'll get a third bottle ABSOLUTELY FREE. 

                         *** 

Please add $3.00 shipping and handling per order. (regardless of how many bottles you order, you pay only $3.00 total!) 

UPS Second Day Air Delivery is available for an additional $9.00 per order.  Overnight, add $15.00 per order. 

Florida residents, please add applicable sales tax. 

For orders from outside of the US only ground shipping is available for $15. 

Our manufacturing facility offers the STRONGEST pheromones on the market today. Our manufacturing facility assures you that Hi-Octane will be always contain the male and female pheromones, the way nature intended it, to best attract the opposite sex for you. It is and will always be manufactured with the finest ingredients to assure your satisfaction. 



                        SATISFACTION GUARANTEED 

Try Hi OctaneTM risk-free. Your satisfaction is unconditionally guaranteed. If you do not find you are meeting and dating and scoring with more people of the opposite sex after using High OctaneTM for 30 days, simply return the unused portion of your order at any time for a full refund--no questions asked. 



Call 520-453-0303 Extension 202,  24 hours/day, 7 days/week for credit card orders. Have your MasterCard, Visa, American Express, and Discover Card  ready and say, " I would like to order ___ bottles of High Octane." 

If you would like to order by mail, you can send in a check or money order, or credit card information,  along with your name and street address (no PO Boxes please) and a day time phone number to: 

                         Euphoria Products Dept. 202 
                    1859 No Pine Island Rd. Suite #133
                            Plantation, FL 33322 






The Mailing List that you are being mailed from was filtered against
a Global Filter List. If you would like not to recieve any other mailings of this type please call: 1-888-745-6328






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: swedegirl@193.230.240.21
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 09:53:20 -0800 (PST)
To: Clintongirl@193.230.240.21
Subject: Have you been married a long time, Spice it up!
Message-ID: <199812261748.BAA08405@ns>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 9343
Lines: 141


BOOST YOUR SEX APPEAL AND CHANGE YOUR SOCIAL AND SEX LIFE FOREVER. 

SCIENCE AND NATURE'S SEXUAL SECRET WEAPON! 

Scientists have isolated the natural Human male/female Pheromone attractants 
and they are NOW available to YOU, legally, in the US. 

ATTRACT THE OPPOSITE SEX LIKE NEVER BEFORE ! 
IT'S GUARANTEED, or you pay nothing! 


PHEROMONES in the News! 

>From the NY Times to the LA Times. USA Today, The Wall Street Journal, Psychology Today, 20/20, Hard Copy, Single Living, Medical Tribune, Philadelphia Inquirer, Dateline, Discovery, Hustler, Playboy, Rocky Mountain News, McCalls, Penthouse, Cosmopolitan, BBC-TV, Colordao Telegraph, GQ, Time, Redbook, Fortune Magazine, and more.  Radio and Television Stations worldwide.  All have reported the scientific findings amidst excitement, controversy, commotion and thrill about pheromones and their potential use. 


The Press Has Said it Better Than We Can. 

"PUT IT TO THE TEST" MERIDIAN TV: 
Sold extensively in the UK, phermomones were tested live on television in the UK, when the unknowing female presenter was VERY ATTRACTED to one of the twin guys,  he was wearing "Androstenone Pheromone"  but she did not know this, and did not know why she was attracted to him ! 

US NEWS and WORLD REPORTS 
"The key to starting a love affair might be right under your nose. Scientists have just announced the discovery of a virtual sixth sense, a tiny organ in the nasal cavity that responds to chemicals known as pheromones. These natural substances are thought to play a role in basic human emotions such as fear, hunger--and love." 
FORTUNE MAGAZINE:  
"An imaginative University of Utah anatomist named David L. Berliner was working with substances that occur in human skin. When he left some of the extracts in open vials around the lab, he noticed a sudden, puzzling rise in camaraderie among a previously acrimonious group of researchers working with him. When he changed the extracts a 
few months later, the group resumed its contentious ways. Berliner froze and saved the extracts. 
Nearly 30 years later, ...  thanks to a method of containing drugs and cosmetics inside tiny, spongelike polymer spheres, he returned to the subject. In 1989 he ... has isolated the suspected good-fellowship pheromones -- behavior-controlling substances similar to those already known to stimulate sexual activity in animals. (One whiff of a pheromone called aphrodisin from a female hamster and a male is ready to mate.) 

On March 3, 1998 FOX Affiliate, WSVN in Miami did a story on Pheromones, stating, "If you're looking for love, we've got a potion for passion." ...  "Tonight, a secret weapon to attract the opposite sex.  Researchers developing their own passion potion. Ever been attracted to someone but weren't really sure why? .... More and more research is pointing to chemicals these days.... undetectable chemicals... pheromones ... a clear odorless liquid" 

Customers Say: 

"... works as advertised, best product of its' kind" 

I've always had trouble meeting women-then I tried your product.  Now girls come up to me and introduce themselves all the time! I'd like to know if your product is available in a larger quantity so I can make sure I'm never without it! 
-Dave J 

I've been driving a tractor trailer for about 6 years and I'm on the road all the time. It's been impossible to meet women until I tried pheromones.  Now every truck stop I pull into I meet new women, and many of them ask me out. Thanks! 
-Tom on the Road Again, 

WHAT ARE PHEROMONES? 

Pheromones are a naturally occurring chemical compound found in all insects, all animals, and in humans. When pheromones are secreted they dictate sexual behavior and attract the opposite sex.  Be careful. Animal pheromones do NOT attract humans. 

Have you ever wondered why people who are not particularly attractive seem to attract dates like flies to honey?  They seem to have some "chemical attraction" about themselves. Some call it animal magnetism. It may be pheromones.  Now you can have that "chemical attraction" whenever you want. 

PHEROMONES - THE FACTS 

       Pheromones are natural chemicals which play an important role in sexual communication. 

       Animals, including humans release chemicals in tears, saliva and perspiration. These chemicals send signals relating to mood and health to the subconscious awareness.  One theory is that the dominant male will exude more of these chemical attractants than a submissive or weaker male.  This chemical attracts more females to him.  It is similar for woman attracting men. This natural attractant can also contribute to more 
intense excitement during love making (sexual foreplay and sexual intercourse). Pheromones may also contribute to the dating phrase, "chemical attraction" that we all talk about.  WSVN-TV (March 3, 1998) "Ever been attracted to someone but weren't really sure why? .... More and more research is pointing to chemicals these days.... undetectable chemicals... pheromones ... a clear odorless liquid" 


MORE RESEARCH AND REFERENCES: 
Following is some research done on products made by our manufacturer, and bottled under a different name.  It contains the same pheromone type and content as Hi-Octane
http://www.angelfire.com/fl/beaches69/index.html 



ABOUT OUR PRODUCT: 

Hi-Octane (tm) 

.. is made up of PHEROMONES suspended in witch hazel.. This product is designed to be added to your favorite cologne or perfume. 

.. contains both male and female PHEROMONES. Nature never intended for 
just one PHEROMONE to be present; but two, male and female. Our manufacturering process uses both PHEROMONES in ALL our products. This will not attract same sex; 
but works as nature intended, attracting the opposite sex. 

.. comes in 1/8 oz. Bottle with a small funnel so you can easily pour it into 
your cologne or perfume. One 1/8 oz. bottle is enough to mix with 4 to 8 oz of 
your favorite perfume product.  

Similar pheromone products have been sold for up to $100 elsewhere. We sell the the strongest product on the market today for only $39.95. 

BUY two -- get one free. 

The world's largest manufacturer of Pheromones, MC Marble, now manufactures Hi-Octane (tm), a pheromone prodcut that is the "Most Powerful sexual attractant on the Market today." 

HI_OCTANE is made with two powerful synthesized human 
pheromones, Alpha-Androstenol and Alpha-Androstenone. 

HI-OCTANE  will attract the opposite sex of the wearer.  McCall's magazine writes 
"...pheromones can improve one's love life, pheromones send out subconscious 
scent signals to the opposite sex that naturally trigger romantic feelings." 

HI-OCTANE  according to the manufacturer, may also intensify sex, by increasing sexual pleasure and endurance of both partners, and creating a higher sexual ecstasy. Individual results may vary.   One private study claims that pheromones don't work for everyone. 75% of those trying it had success.  Isn't it worth trying? 

HOW TO ORDER Hi OctaneTM 

Hi OctaneTM is available from Euphoria Products. 

A 1/8 oz. bottle with a convenient funnel (to be added to your favorite perfume) is 
$39.95. Mix 1/4 of the bottle with every 2 oz of your favorite product. One 1/8 oz. bottle is enough to mix with 4 to 8 oz of your favorite product. 

                         *** 

  For a limited time, when you order two bottles (up to a two month's supply) of Hi Octane(tm), you'll get a third bottle ABSOLUTELY FREE. 

                         *** 

Please add $3.00 shipping and handling per order. (regardless of how many bottles you order, you pay only $3.00 total!) 

UPS Second Day Air Delivery is available for an additional $9.00 per order.  Overnight, add $15.00 per order. 

Florida residents, please add applicable sales tax. 

For orders from outside of the US only ground shipping is available for $15. 

Our manufacturing facility offers the STRONGEST pheromones on the market today. Our manufacturing facility assures you that Hi-Octane will be always contain the male and female pheromones, the way nature intended it, to best attract the opposite sex for you. It is and will always be manufactured with the finest ingredients to assure your satisfaction. 



                        SATISFACTION GUARANTEED 

Try Hi OctaneTM risk-free. Your satisfaction is unconditionally guaranteed. If you do not find you are meeting and dating and scoring with more people of the opposite sex after using High OctaneTM for 30 days, simply return the unused portion of your order at any time for a full refund--no questions asked. 



Call 520-453-0303 Extension 202,  24 hours/day, 7 days/week for credit card orders. Have your MasterCard, Visa, American Express, and Discover Card  ready and say, " I would like to order ___ bottles of High Octane." 

If you would like to order by mail, you can send in a check or money order, or credit card information,  along with your name and street address (no PO Boxes please) and a day time phone number to: 

                         Euphoria Products Dept. 202 
                    1859 No Pine Island Rd. Suite #133
                            Plantation, FL 33322 






The Mailing List that you are being mailed from was filtered against
a Global Filter List. If you would like not to recieve any other mailings of this type please call: 1-888-745-6328






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: clinical27a@usm.edu
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 17:34:52 -0800 (PST)
To: clinical27a@usm.edu
Subject: ABCReport:1st Aphrodisiac Drug Appr
Message-ID: <199812280131.SAA03455@lewis.mt.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 734
Lines: 39


The announcement of this scientific breakthrough,
has set off a media fire-storm.  In the last few days,
the remarkable qualities of Androstenone Pheromones
have been featured in every major publication,
newspaper, national magazine, and television magazine.
>From 20/20, Hard Copy, and Dateline NBC, to the N.Y.
Times, and the American Journal of Modern Medicine.

Several independent research institutes have concluded
studies on the benefits of Androstenone (You may have
heard about the most recent study on CNN.)

TO READ MORE ABOUT THIS REVOLUTIONARY
MEDICAL DISCOVERY and the CNN REPORT
go to our new sites at :



http://www.angelfire.com/on/aphrod7501/


****
OR
****



http://www.nettaxi.com/citizens/aphrod7501











From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: Carol Moore 
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 18:56:15 -0800 (PST)
To: "Mis. List" 
Subject: Y2K War Games & Martial Law articles
Message-ID: <36884349.1B902534@kreative.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 14139
Lines: 340


Below are two recent articles to remind libertarians,et al that the feds
are
already planning "war games" in June for potential problems in year 2000

as well as discussing martial law.  (All planned by the same President,
Attorney General, ATF/FBI, and military who gave us Waco,
Iraq sanctions, and the Sudan and Iraq bombings.)   Carol in D.C.
http://www.kreative.net/carolmoore/community-y2k.html

(PS.  Demand Clinton the rapist (see http://www.newsmax.com)
resign.  202-456-1111  or President@whitehouse.gov)

(A good source for daily mainstream press articles on Y2K is:
http://www.year2000.com/articles/articles)
-----------
12-24-98
Government plans war games to battle Millennium Bug
  By Lisa Hoffman / Scripps Howard News Service
 WASHINGTON -- The federal government is
   gearing up for top-level war games designed to
   grapple with possible calamities the "millennium bug"
   might wreak in the United States and abroad.
 The "tabletop exercise," as it's being called, will
   mark the first time since the end of the Cold War that
   Cabinet secretaries have assembled to plot responses
   to what could be a nationwide crisis.
 Clinton administration officials say they expect any
   disruptions that might result from computer confusion
   when 2000 dawns will be minor. But they want to
   make sure the government is prepared should that
   forecast be wrong.
 Planning for the war games, tentatively scheduled
   for June, is in its early stages, so officials can't say
   which Cabinet secretaries will take part, how long the
   exercises will last or what mock disaster scenarios the
   leaders will be wrestling with.
 According to administration officials, those almost
   certain to participate are Defense Secretary William
   Cohen, Health and Human Services Secretary Donna
   Shalala, Attorney General Janet Reno, Energy
   Secretary Bill Richardson, Transportation Secretary
   Rodney Slater and Jamie Lee Witt, the director of the
   Federal Emergency Management Agency, which is
   taking a lead role in preparing for any year 2000, or Y2K, glitches.
 Governments, from the city and county level up, are racing to make sure
their
   tens of thousands of vital systems will not fall prey to a
programming problem
   that might cause computers to misinterpret the turn of the century on
Jan. 1,
   2000, and shut down or otherwise fail.
 Given the proliferation of computer chips in everything from traffic
signals to
   medical devices to air traffic control towers, significant
disruptions in vital
   services are at least theoretically possible.
 The administration wants to be able to respond rapidly if those occur.
One
   major focus of the war games is expected to be on how to coordinate a

   response.
 At least one other high-level war game is slated at the Pentagon, where
the
   top brass along with Cohen will gather to brainstorm sometime between
March
   and the national exercise in June, according to Pentagon officials.
 Their focus won't be so much on handling defense computer foul-ups --
for
   which a massive preparatory fix now is underway -- as on how the
armed forces
   might be able to help communities in which they are based cope with a
crisis,
   particularly those overseas.
 If, for instance, the electrical power fails in Ramstein, Germany,
troops at the
   U.S. Air Force Base there could provide generators to help restore
the power,
   officials said.
 (Lisa Hoffman covers military affairs for Scripps Howard News Service.
   E-mail hoffmanl(at)shns.com.)
----------------
Found at:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_exnews/19981221_xex_un_plans_glo.shtml

MONDAY    DECEMBER 211998

PANIC IN THE YEAR ZERO
U.N. plans for global chaos
Bennett says no plans in U.S. for martial law

Editor's note: This is the second of a two-part series
on the Y2K millennium bug based on an exclusive
interview with Sen. Robert Bennett, R-UT, and the
chairman of the Senate committee investigating the
technology problem.
By David M. Bresnahan
(c) 1998, WorldNetDaily.com

SALT LAKE CITY, UT -- As preparations for
widespread global panic and disorder over the Y2K crisis
begin at the United Nations, the U.S. senator considered
the most knowledgeable about the millennium bug,
assures the United States does not have plans in place for
martial law.

Representatives from 130 nations met in a closed-door
meeting Friday to discuss the Y2K crisis and the
predicted problems that will occur around the world. The
use of SWAT teams and martial law are being planned,
according to a source present for the meeting at the U.N.

Many underdeveloped nations expressed concern
because they have had no ability to prepare for the Y2K
problems, and many other smaller nations are far behind
where they should be, the source told WorldNetDaily.

The discussions at the meeting turned to how to handle
public panic and unrest that is expected to result on
January 1, 2000, if the Y2K computer bug shuts down
power, communications, and transportation.

The meeting was only the first of many more to come.
Eventually, a formal request may be made to the U.N.
for coordinated military action, according to the source.
Representatives in the meetings openly expressed their
fears of unrest, and voiced a need for martial law, and
the use of military and police SWAT teams.

Meanwhile, Bennett, chairman of the Senate Special
Committee on the Year 2000 Technology Problem, has
been actively sounding the alarm about domestic
problems that may result because of the computer glitch.
But he says martial law is a minimal threat in the U.S.

"I'm not one of those who think that Bill Clinton will
automatically, or in some diabolical way, try to manipulate
this problem (Y2K) to impose improper force on
anybody," he stated. "I just don't see any indications of
that. Until I see some suggestion that that really is
happening I won't believe that it's under consideration."

Bennett did acknowledge that Canada is formulating
plans to initiate martial law because of Y2K.

"The Canadian armed forces are organized very
differently than American armed forces," explained
Bennett. "We don't have the provision to turn out the
military from the Pentagon in a presidential declaration of
martial law like the Canadians do."

Although Bennett has been personally speaking out about
the reality of the problems that could result from the Y2K
bug, he has begun to tone down his predictions. He
blames some of the fear being generated about the
problem on businesses selling survival and preparedness
supplies.

"There's no question but that some of the hysteria is being
whipped up by people who have products to sell," Bennett
told WorldNetDaily in an exclusive interview. "At the
same time, there are people who have legitimate products
to sell that could have an impact on the Y2K problem,
who have every right to talk about the problem in their
legitimate marketing efforts."

"Sometimes the lines between those two get blurred, but I
don't want to be party to helping sell any particular
product or service. That's not the appropriate thing for a
United States senator or a United States Senate
committee to do."

Bennett was critical of most government agencies and
private businesses for not working on the problem sooner.
He said the Social Security Administration is to be
commended for getting an early start, but most others
failed to work on the problem soon enough to solve it in
time.

The total cost to fix the Y2K bug is expected to exceed
$600 billion, with legal expenses in excess of $1 trillion,
according to Bennett. Those numbers do not include
estimates of lost business revenues, and corresponding
loss of tax revenues. Potential damages and repairs are
also not part of the estimates.

Of all government agencies, Bennett said his greatest
concerns are with the Defense Department. He said the
Pentagon began work on the problem too late.

Bennett listed the priorities of his committee as power,
telecommunications and transportation. He explained that
it will do little good for businesses to fix the Y2K problem
within their company if they don't have power,
communications, or transportation.

"If there is no electricity, it doesn't matter whether your
computer is Y2K compliant or not," said Bennett. "Your
laptop batteries won't last long enough to solve all your
problems."

When Bennett first began spreading the alarm about
Y2K, he stated that there was a 40 percent chance the
nation's power grid would not function because of Y2K.

"Now I think that 40 percent has shrunk down to single
digits -- 5 percent, 3 percent -- pick your number, it
doesn't really matter, it's a relatively small chance that the
power grid will fail," said Bennett confidently.

"I still think we will have brownouts," he added. "I don't
know how long they will last. I don't know where they
will hit, and I don't know how severe they will be. The
very nature of the problem indicates that we cannot get
through this with complete, absolute, 100 percent
assurance, although there are people in power companies
that are now telling me that's what we can depend on.

"My own sense of the thing says, no, there's got to be
some brownouts. There will be some interruptions, but
the power grid will not fail. Don't go out and dig up your
backyard and bury propane tanks, or go out and buy your
very own generator, because I think we will have
power."

"I think the telecommunications system will work,"
predicted Bennett. "There will be individual exchanges or
switching companies, or what have you, that will have
problems. We won't know until we can test the whole
system end to end. But there are enough heartening
indications that things are going to be alright that leads me
to believe that the telecommunications system will work."

The nation's power grid is also dependent on a
telecommunications system which enables all the various
computers to communicate and keep the grid functioning.
The telecommunications systems depend on the power
grid to provide the necessary electricity.

"If we have a breakdown in the transportation system, it
could eventually shut down the economy by itself," said
Bennett. "For example, if the trains don't work because
the switching systems don't work, you can't get coal from
coal mines on the trains to the power-generating plants,
which means eventually you don't get any power and the
power grid goes down and then the dominoes can fall in
various directions."

The most vulnerable transportation system which may be
interrupted is maritime shipping, according to Bennett.

"Getting oil out of foreign countries onto ships through
customs with all the paper work that is involved with all
large transoceanic shipments. And, of course, all of the
paper work is controlled by computers," explained
Bennett.

Ships are computer-operated and must dock in ports that
are also computer mechanized. Customs procedures are
also dependent on computers to deal with the enormous
amount of cargo coming into the country every day.

"A breakdown (could occur) in that kind of transportation
chain which depends not only on Y2K compliance in this
country, but in many countries including the countries that
license the ships, and the countries where the oil is
produced," Bennett said. "I think the chances of a
breakdown somewhere in that chain are probably higher
than the single digits, and that could create some
interesting and challenging economic difficulties."

Bennett also took time to give advice to those who wish
to determine how they may be impacted personally by the
Y2K problem. Many people are planning to take their
money out of banks prior to the start of the year 2000.
Bennett is not personally concerned about access to his
bank account.

"You have every right to contact your institution, whether
it's a bank or a credit union, and ask, 'Are you going to be
Y2K compliant?' If you don't have the answer that you
deserve, then take your money out," said Bennett.

He said there will be individual banking institutions where
checks will not clear and ATMs will fail. Some banks and
ATMs will work, and others may not.

"You have the responsibility to take care of your Year
2000 problem, just as your bank has the responsibility to
take care of theirs, or just as Bill Clinton has the
responsibility to take care of America's," he explained.

Despite his own sometimes-dire warnings, Bennett says
no one should have fear.

"I think fear is too strong a word, but I think all of us
should have some concern," he explained. "Concern
enough to inform ourselves. You need to find out as
much as you possibly can about what's really going to
happen to you, and then make intelligent contingency
plans."

He advises talking to city, county, and state officials to
determine if local government is prepared to continue to
provide services in the year 2000. Bennett also advises
that everyone should contact businesses they depend on
for goods and services, and evaluate to what extent they
will be impacted by Y2K.

The task is complicated by the need to evaluate the entire
chain of supplies. It is not enough ask your local grocery
store if it is Y2K compliant. It must also be determined if
the chain of supplies to the grocery store will be able to
continue to deliver goods.

"The contingency plan may be very minor, it may be
non-existent," said Bennett. "You may say, 'In my job,
with my employer, in my city, everything is going to be
fine, I don't need to worry about anything.'

"Or you may say, 'Where I live there is a 20 percent, 30
percent chance that the trucks might not be able to get to
the supermarket where I buy food. I probably ought to
have a little extra food. In my city the water purification
plant is proving to be far more troublesome than it would
be someplace else, and in my city I better have a supply
of fresh water that can take me through while they're
trying to get this taken care of.'

"That's not fear," explained Bennett, "that's intelligent
planning based on sound information. Everyone of us has
to take the responsibility for gathering his or her own
information and then making personal decisions.








From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: "info" 
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 18:04:23 -0800 (PST)
To: 
Subject: Release Information
Message-ID: <001101be32de$208c0b90$3c59aec3@aggressor.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 2678
Lines: 86


 Dear subscriber,

  We are glad to inform you that "The Aggressor PRO V1.0" and "The Aggressor
NTT v1.0" is now released.
  You may download Trial version of The Aggressor PRO from
http://www.aggressor.net.


  * Brief list of features :

  - Advanced Network Sniffing Module

    The Aggressor PRO entitles you to monitor the network traffic on your
local network.
    This feature enables you to read every incoming and outgoing email,
monitor web access of
    employees or monitor irc or icq messages, it has filtering mechanism to
ease viewing connections and
    connection logging feature for autosaving the connections and view them
later.

  - Intrusion Detection

    The Aggressor's beholder module controls all connections/packets between
your local network and internet,
    analyses incoming and outgoing packets, detects and logs hostile actions
like portscanning, denial of service
    attacks or exploit attacks, logs them and alerts the administrator when
such an attempt occurs.

  - Blocking

    With The Aggressor, you can block service usage and server access by
making rulesets.
    Network monitoring options allow the system administrator to ban sites,
services, block connections,
    ban keywords and more.

  - Network Vulnerability Scanner / Informator

    This module enables you to test your network against hacker attacks.
With its live plugin support, you will
    be able to test your network against latest security vulnerabilities by
downloading related plugin file from
    our website. We also have Plugin SDK (for Delphi and Visual C) for you
to develop your own plugin files for
    The Aggressor.

  - Network Administration Tools.

    The Aggressor has most important internet tools which are useful for
network administration such as DNS Scanner,
    Portscanner, Finger, Ident, Whois, Ping, Traceroute. With The Aggressor,
you will not need use any internetworking
    tools from any other sources.

    Requirements :

    Windows NT 4.0 ( Installed Internet Explorer 4 for HTML Filter )
    Ethernet Connection (or another 802.3 frame compatible device)

    Pentium 200 MMX (Pentium II 266 Recommended)
    32 Mb Ram (Additional ram for high network traffic (64+) )
    10 Mb Disk space  (Additional disk space for connection / observer
logging)

    You can obtain detailed information about our product from
http://www.aggressor.net

    Please note that this is a release notification email you can send email
to list-request@aggressor.net with
    subject "UNSUBSCRIBE" to remove yourself from our notify list .


    Regards
    Korhan KAYA

    AGIS Corporation
    http://www.aggressor.net
    (+90)(212) 212-3427






From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: noy99@earthlink.net
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 11:52:03 -0800 (PST)
To: noy99@earthlink.net
Subject: Re: Our answer to your request
Message-ID: <1998122995ZAA48295@earthlink.net.regismckenna.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 9432
Lines: 117


Thank you for your interest in our training Course.                             

Success Courses  offers an extensive Video Tape training course in "How to Collect Judicial Judgments".


If you are like many people, you are not even sure what a Judicial Judgment is and why processing Judicial Judgments can earn you very substantial income. 


If you ever sue a company or a person and you win then you will have a Judicial Judgment against them.  You are happy you won but you will soon find out the shocking fact:  "Its now up to you to collect on the Judgment".  The court does not require the loser to pay you.  The court will not even help you.  You must trace the loser down,  find their assets,  their employment, bank accounts,  real estate,  stocks and bonds,  etc.   Very few people know how to find these assets or what to do when they are found.  The result is that millions of Judgments are just sitting in files and being forgotten.

"In 79% of the cases the winner of a Judgment never sees a dime."

The non-payment of  judicial debt has grown to epidemic proportions.  Right now in the United States there is between  200 and 300 billion dollars of uncollected Judicial Judgment debt.  For every Judgment that is paid,  5 more Judgments take its place.

We identified this massive market 4 years ago and have actively pursued Judicial Judgments since.  We invented this business. We have perfected it into a well proven and solid profession in which only a select few will be trained in the techniques necessary to succeed in this profession.

With our first hand experience we have built a course which teaches you how to start your business in this new unknown and exciting field of  processing Judicial Judgments.

By following the steps laid out in our course and with reasonable effort you can  become very successful in the processing of Judicial Judgments.

The income potential is substantial in this profession.  We have associates who have taken our course and are now working full time making $96,000.00 to  over $200,000.00 per year.  Part time associates are earning between $24,000.00 and $100,000.00 per year.   Some choose to operate out of their home and work by themselves.  Others build a sizable organization of 15 to 25 people in attractive business offices.


Today Success Courses  and our associates have over 632 million dollars in Judicial Judgments that we are currently processing.  Of this 632 million,  36 million is in the form of joint ventures between our firm  and our associates.  Joint ventures are where we make our  money.  We only break even when our course is purchased.  We make a 12% margin on the reports we supply to our associates.   Our reporting capability is so extensive that government agencies,  police officers,  attorneys,  credit agencies etc.  all come to us for reports.


Many of our associates already have real estate liens in force of between 5 million to over 15 million dollars.  Legally this means that when the properties are sold or refinanced our associate must be paid off.  The norm is 10% interest compounded annually on unpaid Judicial Judgments.  Annual interest on 5 million at 10%  translates to $500,000.00 annually in interest income,  not counting the payment of the principle.  Our associates earn half of this amount or $250,000.00 per year.  This is just for interest,  not counting principle and not counting the compounding of the interest which can add substantial additional income.  Typically companies are sold for 10 times earnings.  Just based on simple interest an associate with 5 million in real estate liens could sell their business for approximately 2.5 million dollars.


92% of all of our associates work out of their home;  43% are women and 36% are part time.   


One of the benefits of working in this field is that you are not under any kind of  time frame.  If you decide to take off for a month on vacation then go.  The Judgments you are working on will be there when you return.   The Judgments are still in force,  they do not disappear.



The way we train you is non-confrontational. You use your computer and telephone to do most of the processing. You never confront the debtor.  The debtor doesn't know who you are.  You are not a collection agency.


Simply stated the steps to successful Judicial Processing are as follows: 


· Mail our recommended letter to companies and individuals with Judicial Judgments.  (We train you how to find out who to write to)


· 8% to 11% of the firms and people you write will call you and ask for your help.  They call you,  you don't call them unless you want to.


· You send them an agreement (supplied in the course) to sign which splits every dollar you collect 50% to you and 50% to them.  This applies no matter if the judgment is for $2,000.00 or $2,000,000.00. 


· You then go on-line to our computers to find the debtor and their assets.  We offer over 120 powerful reports to assist you.  They range from credit reports from all three credit bureaus,  to bank account locates,  employment locates,  skip traces and locating stocks and bonds,  etc.  The prices of our reports are very low.  Typically 1/2 to 1/3 of what other firms charge.   For example we charge $6.00 for an individuals credit report when some other companies charge $25.00.


· Once you find the debtor and their assets you file garnishments and liens on the assets you have located.  (Standard fill in the blanks  forms are included in the course)


· When you receive the assets you keep 50% and  send 50% to the original Judgment holder.


· Once the Judgment is fully paid you mail a Satisfaction of Judgment to the court. (Included in the course)

Quote's  from several of our students:


Thomas in area code 516 writes us:  "I just wanted to drop you a short note thanking you for your excellent course.  My first week,  part time,  will net me 3,700.00 dollars.  Your professionalism in both the manual and the video opened doors for me in the future.  There's no stopping me now.  As of February 3rd, 1995, Thomas states he has over $8,500,000 worth of judgments he is working on.


After only having this course for four months,  Larry S. in area code 314  stated to us:  "I am now making $2,000.00 per week and expect this to grow to twice this amount within the next year.  I am having a ball.  I have over $250,000 in judgments I am collecting on now."


After having our course for 7 months Larry S. in 314 stated "I am now making $12,000.00 per month and have approximately $500,000.00  in judgments I am   collecting on.  Looks like I will have to hire someone to help out"


Marshal in area code 407 states to us  "I feel bad,   you only charged me $189.00 for this course and it is a gold mine. I  have added 3 full time people to help  me after only having your course for 5 months"


>From the above information and actual results you can see why we can state the following:


With our course you can  own your own successful business.  A business which earns you substantial income now and one which could be sold in 3-5 years,  paying you enough to retire on and travel the world.  A business which is extremely interesting to be in.  A Business in which every day is new and exciting.  None of your days will be hum drum.  Your brain is challenged.   A business which protects you from Corporate downsizing.  A business which you can start part time from your home and later,  if you so desire,  you can work in full time.  A business which is your ticket to freedom from others telling you what to do.  A business which lets you control your own destiny.  Our training has made this happen for many others already.   Make it happen for you!

If the above sounds interesting to you then its time for you to talk to a real live human being,  no cost or obligation on your part.


Please call us at  1-500-488-2035.  We have Customer Support staff available to you from 7:00AM to 7:00PM (Pacific Time) Monday through Saturday.  Closed Sunday.  If you call this number you can talk to one of our experienced Customer Support personnel. They can answer any questions you may have - with no obligation. Sometimes we run special pricing on our courses and combinations of courses. When you call our  Customer Support line they can let you know of any specials we may be running. If you like what you read and hear about our courses, then the Customer Support person can work with you to place your order. We are very low key. We merely give you the facts and you can then decide if you want to work with us or not.

Thank you for your time and interest.







++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 











++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Another Internet Ad campaign produced and distributed by:  Cyber Advertising Systems,  NY, NY 10011.  Please call Cyber Advertising Systems at 1-800-409-8302 Extension 1284 if you would like us to design and distribute powerful advertising for your company.  Success Courses is pleased with the advertising we have developed for them.  If you have a solid well proven product or service then we would be proud to help your company also.  If you would like to be removed from Cyber Advertising Systems mailing list then please send an email to:  hopkinsdf556@yahoo.com  and type remove in the subject line.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
e;i




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: ilin748@yahoo.com
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 06:56:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: your site
Message-ID: <199901051456.GAA22410@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 1789
Lines: 72



            We'll Submit Your Site To 

                    Over 900

     Search Engines, Directories, & Indices

         For A "One Time Cost" Of Only

                    $ 39.95


     ***  100% Money Back Guarantee  ***

*** Immediately Increase Your Sites Exposure ***

 For Less Than 4 Cents Each We Will Submit Your
 Web Site To Over 900 Of The Net's Hottest Search 
 Engines, Directories & Indices.

 If your site isn't listed in the Search Engines,
 how can people find you to buy your products 
 or services?
 
 For just $39.95 we'll take the work load off your
 back instead of you trying to do it manually which
 can take days to do.

 We're the professionals that are here to help
 you have a shot at having a successful marketing
 experience with the internet.

 You know as well as we that your time is
 best utilized managing your business and not
 sitting at some keyboard hours upon hours
 trying to save less than 4 cents for each  
 submission. See how it's kind of crazy to try
 to tackle this on your own.  It's just not 
 cost effective to try to do this yourself to
 save just $39.95.

 See why thousands and thousands of businesses 
 world wide both large and small have come to 
 us to utilize our services.  Hotels, Motels,
 On-Line Stores, Travel Agents, Colleges, 
 Universities, Governments, Fortune 500 companies,
 Movie Studios, Chambers Of Commerce and many,
 many more.  Shouldn't you give us a call now?

 To Learn More, Call Us At The Numbers Below.
 
 Call us toll free at (800) 771-2003 in the USA
 and Canada or outside the USA at (916) 771-4739
 and we'll provide you with all the necessary
 information to get you submitted Right Away.






To be removed from our mailing list, please
respond with the word remove in the subject.
 
 
 
 
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: dvf@btm.de
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 03:09:14 -0800 (PST)
To: user@the_internet.com
Subject: Online Sales SkyRocket With Real-Time Credit Card Processing
Message-ID: <199812301105.MAA22147@ns.btm.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 3913
Lines: 103


INCREASE SALES UP TO 1500% ACCEPT CREDIT CARDS OVER THE INTERNET 

***NO SETUP FEES*** 


Good Credit / Bad Credit/ No Credit ***NO PROBLEM*** 


It Just Doesn't Matter - Everyone Gets Approved 

No Upfront Fees For Application-Processing 

While Others Charge You From $195 TO $250 To Get Set Up 

WE CHARGE ZERO FOR SETUP FEES!! 

Limited Offer So Take Advantage Of It!! 

We Specialize In Servicing The Following: 


*Multilevel Marketing 

*Mail Order/ Phone Sales 

*Home Based Business 

*INTERNET BASED BUSINESS 

*New Business* Small Business 


Whatever!! We Do It All!!! 

Everyone Is Welcome! 


* Scroll to bottom of this e-mail for CONTACT INFORMATION. 


>>>>> INTERNET SERVICE <<<<< 


It's finally here!!! 


A fast and reliable way to process credit cards through your web site The  Internet's reach is global - it knows no time zones or physical boundaries. With  our user friendly, easy to use program, you will convert your web site from an  electronic brochure to a virtual storefront without the addition of a sales  clerk!!! 


SECURE REAL-TIME ON-LINE TRANSACTIONS make it as easy as possible for your  customers to purchase your products or services. We use SSL SECURITY(best on the  NET today). 


You will summon your customers' impulse buying when you can safely process  credit cards through a secured web site linked directly to your web page. 


The Internet is the fastest growing industry in today's direct marketing  business. DON'T BE LEFT BEHIND!!! Give your customers the convenience of  ordering products right from your web page 


Now tell me if this doesn't sound intriguing, lets say a customer visits your  web site and decides they want to buy your product(s) or service(s). They would  simply enter their credit card information and receive an approval WITHIN 5  SECONDS. That's all there is to it!! 


>From that point on, the sale is complete and the money will be directly  deposited into your business checking account within 24 to 48 hours. So you will  have LIQUID ASSETS AVAILABLE ALMOST IMMEDIATELY!!! Your customer will be  e-mailed a receipt and you will be e-mailed an invoice slip, all  instantaneously. Now, since this program is automated for 24 hours a day 7 days  a week, you will be receiving orders and making money in your sleep!!! IT'S JUST  THAT EASY!!! 


We Also offer SOFTWARE AND TERMINAL PACKAGES. With our SOFTWARE PROGRAM, you  can now take PHONE and MAIL ORDERS, accept credit cards and expose your business  to thousands of new customers. All of this done through your own personal  computer!!! 


To accommodate your STOREFRONT RETAIL BUSINESS, we offer an ELECTRONIC  TERMINAL and PRINTER PACKAGE. A terminal will allow you to receive the LOWEST  DISCOUNT RATE per transaction available. 


>>>>>CONTACT INFORMATION<<<<< 


Through CSI, you can apply for a merchant account with NO APPLICATION FEE, NO  SETUP FEE, and BETTER RATES!!!! We believe the ability to accept credit card  payments greatly enhances your business, adds additional credibility in the  marketplace, and increases your potential for immediate sales. So, if your  serious about increasing your business potential, get your own Merchant Account  today!!! 


 

CALL 1(800) 600-0343 ext. 1625 


 

************************************************************ 


The Mailing List that you are being mailed from was filtered against the  Global Remove List at: FFcvfgt@gmx.de  


Remove-List is a free public service offering to help the general public get  removed from bulk mailings lists and has not sent this message. If you want  their help please add your name to their list and we you will not receive a bulk  email from us or any other ethical bulk emailer. 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 


 

 

************************************************************************************




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: otfipl@udme.eoqni.nirl.com
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 11:09:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Is what you are looking for ?
Message-ID: <199812300314.GNM5249@kmop.pgkgy.gywe.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 319
Lines: 14



Please note that this is a one time mailing 
and you will not receive any further invitations to us.

If you are over the age of 18 and are looking for the
hottest adult entertainment on the Internet Today,
Click here to see something that you've NEVER SEEN BEFORE!

http://members.xoom.com/MK44DHTA/default.html





From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: hu8473@yahoo.com
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 00:22:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: your web site
Message-ID: <199901060819.AAA00376@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 1805
Lines: 80



            We'll Submit Your Site To 

                    Over 900

     Search Engines, Directories, & Indices

         For A "One Time Cost" Of Only

                    $ 39.95


     ***  100% Money Back Guarantee  ***

*** Immediately Increase Your Sites Exposure ***

 For Less Than 4 Cents Each We Will Submit Your
 Web Site To Over 900 Of The Net's Hottest Search 
 Engines, Directories & Indices.

 If your site isn't listed in the Search Engines,
 how can people find you to buy your products 
 or services?
 
 For just $39.95 we'll take the work load off your
 back instead of you trying to do it manually which
 can take days to do.

 We're the professionals that are here to help
 you have a shot at having a successful marketing
 experience with the internet.

 You know as well as we that your time is
 best utilized managing your business and not
 sitting at some keyboard hours upon hours
 trying to save less than 4 cents for each  
 submission. See how it's kind of crazy to try
 to tackle this on your own.  It's just not 
 cost effective to try to do this yourself to
 save just $39.95.

 See why thousands and thousands of businesses 
 world wide both large and small have come to 
 us to utilize our services.  Hotels, Motels,
 On-Line Stores, Travel Agents, Colleges, 
 Universities, Governments, Fortune 500 companies,
 Movie Studios, Chambers Of Commerce and many,
 many more.  Shouldn't you give us a call now?

 To Learn More, Call Us At The Numbers Below.
 
 Call us toll free at (800) 771-2003 in the USA
 and Canada or outside the USA at (916) 771-4739
 and we'll provide you with all the necessary
 information to get you submitted Right Away.






To be removed from our mailing list, please
respond with the word remove in the subject.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: qiy68@leica.com.au (wghtlost)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 04:48:47 -0800 (PST)
To: qiy68@leica.com.au
Subject: 'Tis the day after Christmas And something's not right
Message-ID: <19981231190EAA12275@vertuoks.snioe.on.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 1308
Lines: 39



'Tis the day after Christmas  
And something's not right
Were painfully aware
That our clothes are too tight.

We ate lots of gravy
And pumpkin pie too
Oh, no, not a diet...
But what shall we do?

Now you can lose weight without suffering.   Call Tides of Life at
1-888-817-7443 for information on safe, natural, and effective weight
loss products.

Our premier product, Cheat & Eat, contains 1000 mg of chitosan per
tablet along with herbs.  This binds to fats and sugars in the
intestinal tract, blocking absorption and passing them out of the body
before you can absorb the calories!  Also stops sugar cravings. 
Clinical studies show an average weight loss of 4 pounds per week with
no drugs, side effects or starvation diets!  We are offering a great
introductory price of $29.50 plus $2.50 shipping for a 6 week supply. 
You can buy much weaker chitosan products for $70/bottle but we have
located the best product for you at the best price.

Call 1-888-817-7443 for more information on Cheat & Eat and other
natural weight loss products.  Tides of Life has specialized in natural
hormonal products and related health supplements since 1993.  Free price
list upon request.

*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Removal from lists, please go to http://209.216.69.189/remove/

#2167659jdfv94894hde
nqr is 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 1789
Lines: 72



            We'll Submit Your Site To 

                    Over 900

     Search Engines, Directories, & Indices

         For A "One Time Cost" Of Only

                    $ 39.95


     ***  100% Money Back Guarantee  ***

*** Immediately Increase Your Sites Exposure ***

 For Less Than 4 Cents Each We Will Submit Your
 Web Site To Over 900 Of The Net's Hottest Search 
 Engines, Directories & Indices.

 If your site isn't listed in the Search Engines,
 how can people find you to buy your products 
 or services?
 
 For just $39.95 we'll take the work load off your
 back instead of you trying to do it manually which
 can take days to do.

 We're the professionals that are here to help
 you have a shot at having a successful marketing
 experience with the internet.

 You know as well as we that your time is
 best utilized managing your business and not
 sitting at some keyboard hours upon hours
 trying to save less than 4 cents for each  
 submission. See how it's kind of crazy to try
 to tackle this on your own.  It's just not 
 cost effective to try to do this yourself to
 save just $39.95.

 See why thousands and thousands of businesses 
 world wide both large and small have come to 
 us to utilize our services.  Hotels, Motels,
 On-Line Stores, Travel Agents, Colleges, 
 Universities, Governments, Fortune 500 companies,
 Movie Studios, Chambers Of Commerce and many,
 many more.  Shouldn't you give us a call now?

 To Learn More, Call Us At The Numbers Below.
 
 Call us toll free at (800) 771-2003 in the USA
 and Canada or outside the USA at (916) 771-4739
 and we'll provide you with all the necessary
 information to get you submitted Right Away.






To be removed from our mailing list, please
respond with the word remove in the subject.
 
 
 
 
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: hu8473@yahoo.com
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 23:41:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: your web site
Message-ID: <199901040741.XAA07266@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



            We'll Submit Your Site To 

                    Over 900

     Search Engines, Directories, & Indices

         For A "One Time Cost" Of Only

                    $ 39.95


     ***  100% Money Back Guarantee  ***

*** Immediately Increase Your Sites Exposure ***

 For Less Than 4 Cents Each We Will Submit Your
 Web Site To Over 900 Of The Net's Hottest Search 
 Engines, Directories & Indices.

 If your site isn't listed in the Search Engines,
 how can people find you to buy your products 
 or services?
 
 For just $39.95 we'll take the work load off your
 back instead of you trying to do it manually which
 can take days to do.

 We're the professionals that are here to help
 you have a shot at having a successful marketing
 experience with the internet.

 You know as well as we that your time is
 best utilized managing your business and not
 sitting at some keyboard hours upon hours
 trying to save less than 4 cents for each  
 submission. See how it's kind of crazy to try
 to tackle this on your own.  It's just not 
 cost effective to try to do this yourself to
 save just $39.95.

 See why thousands and thousands of businesses 
 world wide both large and small have come to 
 us to utilize our services.  Hotels, Motels,
 On-Line Stores, Travel Agents, Colleges, 
 Universities, Governments, Fortune 500 companies,
 Movie Studios, Chambers Of Commerce and many,
 many more.  Shouldn't you give us a call now?

 To Learn More, Call Us At The Numbers Below.
 
 Call us toll free at (800) 771-2003 in the USA
 and Canada or outside the USA at (916) 771-4739
 and we'll provide you with all the necessary
 information to get you submitted Right Away.






To be removed from our mailing list, please
respond with the word remove in the subject.
 
 
 
 
 




From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: lay8@helium.dcs.kcl.ac.uk (gr8adz)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 06:26:00 -0800 (PST)
To: lay8@helium.dcs.kcl.ac.uk
Subject: Your ad to 1 Million...$50
Message-ID: <19981231666YAA31316@quomsrek.turxo.ee.surrey.ac.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 2990
Lines: 91



  EMAIL YOUR MESSAGE TO ONE MILLION ADDRESSES 
        FOR LOW INTRODUCTORY PRICE OF US$50.00 ! 

This is a Co-Op mailing service! I'll email your 5-line message to 1
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__Submit search request to 100 chamber of comm.$15.     $_____
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I enclose payment by

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Charge my credit card with the amount of US$______

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From cypherpunks@MHonArc.venona  Wed Dec 17 23:17:14 2003
From: fbi.files@usa.net
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 18:33:47 -0800 (PST)
To: unique_info@your.files
Subject: Get Your FBI Files!
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Length: 9635
Lines: 158


Are you now or have you ever been in the FBI files?

The answer is, most likely, Yes!  Just about everyone has their own FBI file.

How do we know?  The authors did research under the Freedom of Information Act.  It shows that government agencies do not like being held accountable to the public and resist the efforts of citizens who seek information about their activities.

>>>>>>>>Starting Dec. 4, 1998, we are running a TV commercial nationwide for the following offer.  If you snooze, you will lose!  You will also see our ad in newspapers and hear it on the radio.  We expect, at some point, the FBI will knock on our door and tell us to stop selling the book because they are getting too many inquiries.  The huge demand will make it difficult for latecomers to obtain their FBI files.


First about the FBI filing system.  It was created to deter anybody from getting full information.  The FBI uses many record systems.  They created what is called "Main Files" with four classifications:
	* Personal
	* Administrative
	* Applicant (for government employees)
	* Investigative
To further confuse us, the FBI created 210 classification numbers besides the files called "Confidential," "Secret," and "Top Secret."  Here are some of the classification numbers and the categories they stand for:
	#3 - Overthrow or Destruction of the Government
	#5 - Income Tax
	#17 - Veteran Administration Matters
	#23 - Prohibition (Maybe your Grandfather is here.)
	#40 - Passport and Visa Matters
	#47 - Impersonation
	#49 - National Bankruptcy Act
	#64 - Foreign (This one is interesting.  Intelligence information about citizens of foreign countries!)
	#72 - Obstruction of Criminal Justice
	#85 - Home Owner Loan Corporation
	#162 - Interstate Gambling Activities
	#183 - Racketeer-Influenced and Corrupt Organizations (You know this one -- RICO.)
	 
	
There is a specific system of numbering documents.  It was not easy for the investigative team to decipher and decode how the numbering relates to everyone.  Your FBI ID number most likely consists of three sets of numbers. For example:  100-15375-17
	100 - marks the document as part of a domestic security investigation.
	15375 - indicates the document investigation number.  These two sets of numbers together creates a "case number."
	17 - a numeric labeling, but to confuse everyone, it could be an incoming or outgoing document.


But, we have the solution.  An awesome publication, "FBI Files,"  is now available.  As a bonus, we created a letter for you which covers all possible requests so none of the information is missing when you get your file.

Here is how it works.  If you don't ask for it, you don't get it.  That's a LAW!  But, if you know what to ask for, you MUST get it.  That's also a LAW! Our researchers spent twenty years just uncovering what to ask for.

Today, if you ask for your file without being specific, you may be brushed off with questions as to which main file, subfile,  or some very strange, cryptic language and code names such as "Elsurs Logs," "MISUR," "TESUR," "FOIA," Document Classification Reveiw Unit known as "CRU," and so on.

Who has an FBI file?
	* All Criminals
	* Organized Crime Members
	* Government Employees
	* Celebrities
	* Foreigners who became U.S. Citizens
	* All Foreigners with Green Cards
	* Foreign Nationals	
	* Members of Interest Groups
	* Everyone involved in Counter-Intelligence
	* Black Nationalist hate groups
	* Internal Security
	* All Politicians
	* Everyone with any kind of Police Record
	* All Professionals who are fingerprinted for a specific profession -- example, Real Estate Agents
	* All Fugitives
	* Computer Hackers and Flamers

We believe that everyone today has an FBI file and that your future National ID # is going to be your FBI File number!

The book, "FBI Files," gives you detailed information on how you can obtain all files the FBI has on you.  It will also give you information how to obtain the FBI files of other people. The FBI will not release these voluntarily.  You may have to jump through some hoops to get them.  But, under the Freedom of Information Act, you are entitled to get ANY information unless it is subject to national security.

When you receive your files you may be shocked to learn that your local police have a wiretap and surveillance on you.  You find out your neighbor is an FBI informant.  You may even find out your trash was picked up by the FBI and derogatory information was put in your file.

If you ever attended a "politically incorrect" meeting or political rally, you may find your picture in your file. Or if you purchased a book or magazine considered "underground," that information may be in your file. Or your neighbor may have heard you listening to a talk show considered "politcally incorrect" and may have reported you to the authorities.

Does this sound far-fetched?  We wish!  Things like this are happening every day.

Why do you NEED your FBI files?  Your future job or promotion may depend on the information contained in those files!  It is a MUST for you to obtain your files and correct any and all incorrect information before it affects your life!

NOW is the time to order.............................

"FBI Files" is 226 pages of detailed information and instructions. When you read your own FBI files, you may be shocked to learn that your local police have a wiretap and surveillance on you.  You may find out your neighbor is an informant.  You may even find out your garbage was picked up by the FBI and derogatory information put in your file.  By the way, if you find any derogatory information which is not yours but appears in your file, you can sue the government for huge sums of money!


Procrastination on your part may just keep you from being able to get YOUR FBI FILES!  Order now and avoid the rush.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is how to order:


Our "FBI Files" package is being offered at the Special Promotion price of $24.95 which includes shipping and handling by Priority Mail ($9.95).  You should receive your book within 7-10 days from receipt of order.  

.......Here are the BONUSES for you........
  *You will receive a letter created by our Research Dept. in which you just fill in your Name, Address, Social Security Number, and start searching for your file or files.  Depending on who you are and what may be in your file will be the measurement of how long it will take to receive all the information.  But, eventually, YOU WILL SUCCEED!

  *You will also receive an updated list of FBI field offices in the United States with their addresses.

  *We will also include a special folder in which you can store your information.



You can send us a check (takes at least 5 business days to clear) or money order.  We also accept all major Credit Cards:  Visa, MasterCard, American Express, and Discover. 


Print out the convenient order form below NOW and mail it to:

	World Net Press
	Dept. E-1224
	P.O. Box 96594
	Las Vegas, NV 89193-6594
	
Payment Method:  
_____ Check     
_____ Money Order
_____ Visa
_____ MasterCard
_____ American Express
_____ Discover

_____ Yes, I want to order my copy of the "FBI Files Package" which includes the Bonus letter I can send to the FBI, the updated list of FBI Field Offices, and a special folder for storing my information.  Price is $24.95 which includes shipping and handling by Priority Mail($9.95) and bonuses.


Name_________________________________________________________________________

Address______________________________________________________________________

City/State/Zip_______________________________________________________________

Daytime Phone (__________)___________________________________________________

E-Mail Address_______________________________________________________________

Credit Card #_____________________________________________ Exp. Date_________

Cardholder Name (as it appears on the card)__________________________________

(Please make sure you include your phone number and e-mail address in case we have a question about your order.  Your credit card billing will reflect Road to Wealth, Inc.)

If you are unhappy with "FBI Files," just return the book within 30 days of date of purchase and we will refund the price of the book less shipping and handling and a restocking fee of 15%.



>>>>>>We have many publications and videos with thought-provoking titles available.  If you would like more information, please reply to this message and type MORE INFO in the subject line.  Thank you. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>



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